# Will AIB allow me keep my tracker if I trade up?



## cb330 (13 Dec 2013)

Anyone tried to carry over an existing tracker when upgrading home in recent weeks? We got all the paper-work and had preliminary discussions with AIB mortgage center in the summer but they told us we would loose our tracker and that all of our mortgage for a new home would be on the variable rate. We are thinking of filling in the paper work now and asking for 20K€ over our current 220€ (house is worth maybe 180K). Our suggestion: we pay the variable on this 20K but we are looking to keep the tracker for the 220K remaining. Any views or experience if it is even worth going to the trouble of asking for this? Will they just say no? Any views welcome. We are an expanding family and under pressure to move. Thanks.


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Dec 2013)

AIB do not allow the porting of tracker mortgages. 

It's possible that this policy might change. But as of now, there is no point in asking. 

Brendan


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## cb330 (14 Dec 2013)

*AIB tracker mortgage*

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Brendan.
Is there any point in trying to negotiate paying just the extra we are looking for as variable and to keep the tracker for the main part, or asking if we could find some other split type of arrangement? There is nothing in the pipeline that could indicate a change in their attitude? If we did our sums and calculated what the tracker will cost them - we are only looking for another 20,000 and this will cost us over 120,000 extra over the rest of our mortgage (22 years) on a variable rate. I read in other threads that the bank has to consider any serious offers, and we were hoping that they will engage with us in some way. Otherwise we will have to stay put where we are. Would be interested in what you or others think. Thanks.


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## breakonthru (14 Dec 2013)

Would renting your current home cover tracker mortgage?

Is there rental stock of the type of house you want at the new proposed area?
If there is, would new landlord agree three/five year rent at fixed payment to ensure some security of tenure, cover schooling years.  (Maybe write off some rent in new location as business expenses, if you / partner worked from there).

Is there negative equity in current home? Are you in arrears? How much have you invested in current home, stamp duty, capital portion paid, fixtures fittings, sweat equity (cash equivalent of your time renovating).

Lastly, its always worth negotiating with the bank, shows communication, willingness to come up with different arrangements, etc..


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## cb330 (14 Dec 2013)

Thanks Breakonthru for your suggestions. 
Our situation is: my husband also has a house in negative equity (terraced and not in great shape so being rented for 300 euros less a month than what it costs per month - bank is Permanent TSB). 
AIB said we would have to sell one of our houses to get a new mortgage - the negative equity on my husband's house is about 50,000€, negative equity on my house (where we live) is about 40,000. My house is in a very good rentable area, and we put 52,000 into this house in 2011 after a burst pipe, but we thought we would loose the tracker if we tell the bank that we are renting this house. 
We are not in arrears, but keeping up payments. Paid 310,000 for this house in 2006 which is now worth about 180,000.  We can only move if we find a solution to keep all or some of the tracker, as the difference is over 450 a month if we move to a variable rate. Thanks for your ideas!


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Dec 2013)

You should fill in the following to get a comprehensive answer 

Standard Format for mortgage arrears Case Studies


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## cb330 (16 Dec 2013)

Hi Brendan, 
not sure if this is in correct thread, but feel free to change direction if necessary. This is the questionnaire filled out:

Income details
Net monthly (i.e. after tax) Income self: nature of income e.g. self-employed/public servant etc 
Income history: e.g. "I was made redundant in June 2011 and have not had any work since..."

Total: 4,710 (Wife: 3,100 net; husband 1,480 (husband lost job as structural engineer in 2009 and has retrained in computers since, on graduate salary since finding work in 2012, no sign of increments), child benefit, €130)

Net monthly income partner/spouse: nature of income
Income history: see above
Amount of child benefit received (Should be €130 per child) 
Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received (MIS is the social welfare payment to unemployed people, don't confuse with TRS) SEE ABOVE 

Personal circumstances so we can calculate your reasonable living expenses 
The Insolvency Service has published Guidelines for reasonable living expenses based on the family size, whether or not you need a car for work, childcare costs and other exceptional circumstances. By filling in this information, we (or you ) can calculate what your reasonable monthly living expenses should be. 
One adult family or two adult family – 2 ADULT FAMILY, BOTH HAVE TO HAVE CAR TO GET TO WORK
Do you need a car for work or do you use public transport? 
Number of children 0- 2 years old: x1
Monthly childcare costs: between €900-950 (paid by day)
Montly spend on special circumstances: e.g. exceptional healthcare costs (€144)



Home loan
Lender: AIB
Amount outstanding: 220,000€ (ORIGINAL MORTGAGE 320,000 IN 2006)
Value of home: circa 180,000€
Interest rate: specify whether tracker or SVR or fixed rate
Monthly repayment, TRACKER 980€ p.m. 
Amount in arrears - NA

Summary of discussions and agreements with the banke.g. in Marp since Jan 2011 . Have been on interest only since then. 
SEE BELOW

Investment property - Delete if not applicable 
Lender: PTSB
Amount outstanding: 130,000€
Value of home: circa. 75,000€
Interest rate: TRACKER
Monthly repayment; 700€
Amount in arrears NA
Monthly rent received 400€

Credit Union 
Amount of shares 
Amount of loan outstanding 
Monthly repayment 
Term left 
NA

Other loans and creditors - delete those which don't apply to you
Overdraft - amount outstanding: 
Credit Card - amount outstanding 
Credit Card - monthly amount you are paying 
Term loan Amount outstanding 
Term loan term left
Term loan - monthly repayment
Term loan - interest rate 
Family loan - amount outstanding 
Family loan - monthly repayment 

NA


Other savings and investments 

30,000 saved  - (car change needed say 10,000 but not sure whether to do this before or after approaching bank re mortgage application, DATE DEC 2013)


Do you expect any lump sums in the medium term future? 
Redundancy, inheritances, injuries awards. 
NO

How important is retaining the family home to you? 
Which of the following best describes your situation?

I don't care about keeping the family home. 
I would like to keep it, but will get rid of it if it means I can get rid of the mortgage associated with it. 
I really want to keep the family home even if it means having a large mortgage and negative equity for years to come.

NOT REALLY RELEVANT WE ARE KEEPING UP PAYMENTS

Any other relevant information


NEED TO MOVE HOUSE, TOO SMALL AND PROBLEMS WITH NEIGHBOURS THAT ARE NOT SOLVABLE – DON’T THINK WE CAN AFFORD TO LOOSE TRACKER. 

What is your preferred realistic outcome? 
For example: "I will never be in a position to repay the home loan. So I want to sell the house and deal with the shortfall"

BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME – MOVE HOUSE AND NOT LOOSE TRACKER. WE PROVISIONALLY ASKED FOR 20,000 IN SUMMER 2013 AND CHANGING FROM TRACKER AT 1.6 TO 4.8% MEANT APPROX 400 € MORE PER MONTH (AT TIME OF ENQUIRIES WIFE SALARY WAS 3,400, SINCE THEN HAS REDUCED). THIS DOESN’T SEEM FEASIBLE.


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Dec 2013)

OK, you have €95k of negative equity and €30k of savings, so you have net negative equity of €65k.

The cheap mortgages makes the effective negative equity much lower. In other words, your ptsb mortgage is actually profitable. You are probably paying around €2,500 a year in interest compared to around €4,500 a year in rent received. The additional payments are clearing the negative equity. 

*You cannot afford to move house and lose your tracker. 
*The additional interest would be around €6k a year.  (220k @3%). You are reducing your mortage by around €6k a year in capital payments. After a few years you will have paid off the negative equity.

AIB may introduce a product in the near future which would allow you to keep your tracker.  It will probably be similar to Bank of Ireland's.  You pay a slightly higher margin and keep it for 5 years. That would be enough to justify trading up. 

I think you should stay where you are until you see if AIB introduces this product. If it's not introduced within 6 months and you have to move, then let the house and rent a more suitable house elsewhere.  

You should also try to keep your cash pile as long as possible. It may be useful if AIB introduce a tracker move product.  They may want some of the tracker paid down. If you need a car you can borrow again for the car.


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## kkelliher (17 Dec 2013)

I contacted AIB about trading up previously and despite the fact that they are loosing massivly on my mortgage (tracker at +0.6) and the fact that I offered to increase the margin in order to port the tracker to a new home, they simply said No we are not allowed discuss moving tracker mortgages. And why should they when they are under no pressure as they are all but completly state owned.


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## cb330 (17 Dec 2013)

*Brendan, KKelliher*

Thanks very much to you both for very helpful responses. Great advice. Only query is that we don't think we can rent our primary home based on the fact that it has to be our place of residence - is it not the case that the bank would take the tracker from us if they found out? Don't think I could live with the stress of this. KKelliher, wondering what did you do in the end? Stay put because AIB refused tracker porting? Great website btw.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Dec 2013)

HI CB

The issue of losing your tracker is discussed here 

Has anyone lost their tracker through renting out their home?

It's unlikely you would lose it. 

Brendan


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## kkelliher (18 Dec 2013)

cb330 said:


> KKelliher, wondering what did you do in the end? Stay put because AIB refused tracker porting? Great website btw.



exactly, no option but to stay put. To be fair I have a nice home that I am happy to live in but given the way the market was I looked at the option of moving to a larger home closer to a village but in the end it was never an option due to the tracker


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## cb330 (20 Dec 2013)

Thanks KK and Brendan. I do have a clause in my contract about not renting this house, and I don't see any experiences in the thread you mention about having this clause and seeing what the outcome is, but we'll live in hope. Saw a reference to the article in the Indo about David Duffy being interviewed - he did say they were looking into tracker lenders moving and keeping their rate, so we'll hold off for a few months. Thanks again.


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## dec1892 (2 Jan 2014)

cb330 said:


> Thanks KK and Brendan. I do have a clause in my contract about not renting this house, and I don't see any experiences in the thread you mention about having this clause and seeing what the outcome is, but we'll live in hope. Saw a reference to the article in the Indo about David Duffy being interviewed - he did say they were looking into tracker lenders moving and keeping their rate, so we'll hold off for a few months. Thanks again.



That was back in May 2013 that David Duffy made the statement about AIB looking to put in place an arrangement for allowing people to move with their trackers.....would have thought they might have made this bank policy by this stage?


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