# Block Insurance providers



## lantus (22 Oct 2012)

I'd like some ideas on who to use for block insurance. I would PM me on this to avoid infringing any house rules unless mods say otherwise.

Also if anyone can offer any general advice on the issue I'd be much appreicated.



Cheers


----------



## Leo (22 Oct 2012)

Please don't PM, keep it public so that others may benefit from the discussion. 

Advertising via PM will result in an immediate ban.


----------



## shesells (22 Oct 2012)

I'm not certain who we use off the top of my head but I do know that we got the premium down substantially this year as we got the rebuild cost re-assessed and it had practically halved in the four years since we had last had it assessed.


----------



## DianeC401 (23 Oct 2012)

Hi Lantus

I was responsible for Insurance for our OMC for a number of years so I hope you find the following useful

As Seashells says, getting an accurate rebuilding cost assessment is one of the best ways to save money. Many developments have been overvalued and with the huge change in the building and construction industry over the past 5 years you might be in luck and get a big chunk knocked off your original evaluation. It is worthwhile paying a professional fee to do this and good practice to reassess your reinstatement costs every few year. We go back to the same surveyor who doesn’t charge as much for a re-assessment as he can check previous records and he knows the building well

We use a Broker rather than going directly to Insurers, as most insurance companies seem happier dealing with them and it saves the Directors a lot of time and hassle. But it’s very important to work with your Broker on getting the best quotes possible. If they know you will be querying every cent they are less likely to put in a ‘lazy’ quote. 

Ask their advice, build up a relationship with them, tell them what you require and always bargain to get a bit more knocked off the quote. Ask for advice on how to keep next year’s premium down. A good broker will work with you on all of this. Insist that you see at least 3 or 4 different insurance quotes (if the companies know they have competition they may be willing to negotiate on price). Bargain the commission fee down if you can.

However you have to be realistic and be aware that a lot of the big insurers don’t want apartment blocks on their books and therefore quote themselves out of the market.

If you are a well-run OMC you should stress (and demonstrate) this to the Broker – it does have an impact on the quote. If insurers know responsible Directors are monitoring the claims you will be seen as a better risk. 

Other things that can have an impact on your premium are for example, excluding wooden floors from all water claims. These can be put on contents insurance (even though you would have thought they would be considered to be fixed items) and although not all contents insurers will accommodate this if you press them, most will. It’s becoming more and more common nowadays. You should highlight this to Owners of course as including floors will not be the norm on a policy.

You can also consider increasing the excess on water claims but not on other areas. One or two years of a high water damage excess does wonders for the claims history and gives every owner an incentive to fix a leaking tap, a broken seal on the shower and a faulty washing machine! And it saves all the owners money in the end.

Of course, this doesn’t mean it’s easy for residents. Some owners can be genuinely unlucky and it can be a bitter pill to swallow having a €3,000 excess to pay on a claim, especially when the damage was not caused by them. 

In order to soften the blow, if a leak affected say, 4 apartments and the OMC thought it was appropriate, we would treat all 4 claims as 1 claim so there was only one excess amount to pay so the excess could be split. However if it was clear that the leak originated within one apartment (and in particular, if that owner had been negligent with maintenance or hadn’t addressed the issue quickly) that owner would be charged the excess. Obviously it varies from case to case.

I have been very happy with Campion brokers (no affiliation). They are based in Dublin and are a not one of the large brokerages which to my mind gives them a good edge. We are not one of hundreds of clients, they give tailored personal service. The only other broker I have had dealings with was one of the largest and most well known for insurance who I would rather not name. They were keen on getting the business but didn’t take the time to tailor the quote to our specifications and seemed irritated and unwilling to work with us on shaving the premium down as much as possible. So in my limited experience, the biggest broker wasn’t necessarily the best.

In our OMC we had (like so many others) some terrible years with loads of claims and we then suffered with huge premiums. We had to work hard with our Broker and our Insurance Company to ensure that we got our claims history down and part of that was making sure the insurer used a good loss assessor as well. We found that lots of Assessors really don’t care about the block premium and were happy to rubber stamp very ‘generous’ claims submitted by individuals. But with our current policy we can specify the couple of firms we are happy to work with and our broker/insurer takes that on board.

So all in all we would be termed rather ‘high maintenance’ clients. But as block insurance is one of the biggest expenses an OMC has to manage, it was in our interest to be proactive, hands on and to make sure we interrogated every cent. 

In terms of which insurers deal with apartment block insurance I believe the following are in the market:
Chartis
Chubb
Allianz
Tokio Marine
RSA
Zurich
Aviva
Travelers

It would totally depend on your OMC, your buildings and your claims history as to who might be the best to go with but good luck and I hope this helps.


----------



## peteb (23 Oct 2012)

Informative post from DianeC401.  

Just to say in terms of the insurers she has listed, none of those will quote direct for apartment blocks and will only deal via a broker.


----------



## Dermot (23 Oct 2012)

Try Dolmen Ins brokers. I seen a invoice of theirs on management co documentation a couple of years ago. I think that this might be a link.  Give them a ring.
http://www.dolmen-insurance.ie/
I am sure if you do an internet trawl of Ins Brokers you will find plenty of brokers who act as agents for companies named in DianeC401's post


----------



## Dermot (23 Oct 2012)

You might also try easyquote.ie  http://www.easyquote.ie or challenge.ie.  
I have no connection with any of the above


----------



## lantus (23 Oct 2012)

Thanks to all and in particular DianeC401 who has provided the rule book for block insurance. A great read and resource for me and has given me great food for thought.


----------



## amtc (29 Oct 2012)

we use Stewart Insurances where I live


----------



## lantus (14 Dec 2012)

ok, a few more questions.....

Once the policy is in place what do people feel or recommend regarding the policy on the excess. Who pays? Some say the claimant, some split it between the units if more than one is involved, some seem to get the unit where the damage first occured (say in terms of a leak) to pay. And in some cases the OMC pays and then splits it between the service charge of all the units.

Is there any legal requirement or is it purely for the directors to create a policy and then state what it is.

If the receiver is the legal title deed owner of the common areas and buildings still (at least for another 4 to 6 months until transfer) and is paying for the block insurance then where do we stand as directors regarding claims? Middle men?


----------

