# Direct labour build



## lis (6 Sep 2011)

Hi all

I am just about to start the process of building my own home.  Unfortunately with the way things are now we are having to do this on a very tight budget. I would really appreciate any advice you could give on the following items. 

a) Price per Mtr2 to build. 
b) We want to build the house by direct labour and any feedback you have would be great. i.e.: is this really a cheaper way to go, any tips or problems people have faced in the passed.
c) We have not chosen a house construction method yet. Can anyone offer any opinions on the better method to choose? Are the newer methods icf's and sips cheaper/quicker??? 
d) How much will an architect cost. Do you have to employ them to project manage the site or can this be done yourself. How involved does the architect need to be. I suppose what I’m really asking is it possible to just get the plans drawn up from the architect or do they need to sign off the build at various stages.

I’m new to forums so apologies if this post is not in the right section.

Thanks in advance!!!!!


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## onq (6 Sep 2011)

Hi lis,

First, welcome to askaboutmoney.
This is a forum set up by the site owner Brendan Burgess specifically to address the issues you raise in the process on which you are about to embark.

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*a) Price per Mtr2 to build. *

A useful guide is €100 per square foot or €1,076 per square metre ~ €1,100/sq.m.
If you budget for this you may see some reductions and see a good result.
If you accept at face value some of the more outrageous claims by self-builders - such as achieving €55 per square foot, you can be sure that either 

(i) you're not getting the whole story in terms of the total costs and/or
(ii) if a builder is appointed, the builder is working for below costs and may either go bust or abandon the job.

There are some comments on costs in this thread, but few are substantiated and many seem suspiciously low (see comments above).

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On the important matter of budgeting, managing expectations and developing the design, please read this current thread.
In particular can I direct you to Patrick2008's post which offers a useful list of headings with which to break down and review any tender prices or with which to compile overall costings.
There is not a substitute for full Quantity Surveying service, just a helpful list, but it may help you to know in advance what you're getting into.

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*b) We want to build the house by direct labour*

The most important issue with direct labour is that you are the contractor - this has implications for the prelimaries section in Patrick's list, all of which are looked after by you. You are also responsible for health and safety, insurances, scaffolding,  site compound management, ordering, scheduling arrivals and deliveries and project management generally.

If you are not competent to oversee a building site or to know when the work you're looking at is compliant, you would be well advised retain a project manager who is that competent, and an architect, for the duration of the project. If you do not you will be unable to offer certification for money draw down and the quality of the built work will suffer. More importantly you may not be able to offer the relevant Opinions of Compliance when you eventually come to sell on - which you will, in time.

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*
c) We have not chosen a house construction method yet.*

This is not a multiple choice issue.
Certain plan forms will lend themselves to one method of construction more than another.
I strongly advise you to find an architect whose work you like and work with him to finalize the design, then move on from this to selecting the structure.
Your architect can best advise on the method of construction and he may advise you to retain an engineer for detail design of the structure and foundations.

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*d) How much will an architect cost.*

This thread addresses the questions you should consider raising with your architect.
Several recent threads discuss the several methods of estimating and calculating architects fees.

- Percentage of Nett Building Cost
- Package of Services
- Per Unit Time

I have commented above on the likely level of involvement and the reasons for it.
AAM and boards.ie are littered with tales of self-builders who ignored this advice.

Its your call and your budget, but preferring buying an AGA cooker to paying an Architect is a choice you make at your peril. 

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*Self Build FAQ*

Last but not least you might want to scan the Self Build FAQ for a general overview of the process on which you are about to embark.
I haven't updated it for a while and it is not intended as a substitute for taking professional advice in real life, but hopefully you may find this useful.
You should also make good use of the search function at the top right of the page to research particular items many of which may have been covered on AAM.

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The above is only a brief outline in reply to your questions and no doubt others will contribute to this thread.
Best of luck with your work and feel free to update us on your progress.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                 as a defence or support - in and of itself - should  legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                 Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the         matters    at      hand.


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## Superman (6 Sep 2011)

For a self-build, I would recommend a block on flat construction with external insulation.
(There are some limitations to this).
The reason is that self build is not really feasible with the various timber frame type solutions (the costs don't reduce as a large chunk of them are in the timber frame) and that block on flat is a relatively easy construction method - it also involves the simplest insulating details and leads to "bomb proof" construction - so more latitude for getting stuff wrong.

ICF may also be good - I've never used it.

Regarding the involvement of an architect - it depends. Does your design need competent design follow through (i.e. are there design bits that need to be detailed correctly or otherwise will look awful) - if so, you need an architect.
Otherwise it would be possible to avoid one - though you will need some competent people to design and spec your insulation and to sign off on the construction - for mortgage draw-downs and for Certs of Compliance (which you'll need when you ever want to sell). If you have a basic design, a good engineer could project manage/sign off. And a good construction professional could do the BER.


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## Patrick2008 (7 Sep 2011)

Lis. I think the first thing to consider is that this will probably be the biggest investment you will ever make and it will cost you at least €100k. I am assuming you own the site in which the house will be built. Even though you have to keep questions a-c in the back of your mind I think the first step is to appoint a competent professional to help you through the design process and depending on where you are in the country he/she may also need to help you through the planning process e.g local housing needs, site location etc etc. 

Anyway you should be able to get a good Architect/design professional for about €3k incl VAT or less to take your house from concept to planning. Pay the Architect in 2 stages. Stage 1 for €600 which will allow him/her to prepare a brief, sketches, concepts etc. Stage 2 will allow for more detailed drawings, prepare planning application etc etc. However, this is only an outline cost. You pay for what you get.

I know you have a tight budget even though you have not clarified what your budget is. Lets assume you are building a 2,000 sq.ft house then you need to budget about €200k excl site costs. If you employ a good design professional and they fully understand your brief and your budget then they will save you in the long run. All the better if you can afford to have a Quantity Surveyor on board to look at some of the costs and pay him/her around €500.

Remember there are many top quality Architects/Desing professionals who have been made redundant from top class firms in the past 3 years. They are now setting up as sole traders etc. However, I hasten to add that there are still people out there who believe they can offer the same service as a suitably qualified professional with the required qualifications and experience. 

Try not and go down the road of many others who have spent €800 to buy plans online or for someone who is proficient on Autocad to draw the plans but who do not take into account your own requirements, site layout etc etc and who are not suitably qualified or experienced.

In terms of construction method try and take into account how houses have been built over the past 3,000 years (and I am not talking about the majority of horrible houses that have been built over the past 10 years or the horrible bungalows before that). Granted there are many new construction methods out there but I tend not to use a new construction method until it is tried and tested over a 25 year period. 

Most County Councils now prepare fairly detailed house design guides but I would refer you to the Cork County Council House design guide. It is a very informative document. 

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/57155115.pdf

Finally, it is all about costs at the end of the day. I know you will read other posts where people say they built their houses for €50/sq.ft etc etc. Dare I say it but some people even boast how cheaply they built their houses. They also say they used family friends, relations etc, great savings due to recession, used blocklayers who are also claiming social welfare and who have poor workmanship in any event etc etc. The list is endless. However, you have to make sure you are comparing like with like. e.g upvc windows or timer or aluclad, roof tiles or slates etc etc.

As a Chartered Quantity Surveyor I firmly believe you can build a very nice 190m2 cavity wall block built super insulated, well ventilated house in a vernacular style, simple design, proper orientation, using simple palet of materials, taking into account County Council guidelines as above and using timber or aluclad windows, nice roof slate, white render with some timber cladding etc for circa €861/m2 or €80/sq.ft. So total build cost should be around €160k excl site cost. Depending on your taste you will probably need to add €30k for painting, built in and loose furniture, stove, tiling, ironmongery and sanitaryware. 

Now I am sure other posters will say you can build for less but remember to compare like with like.

P.S Dont forget to take into account the running costs of your house and not just the capital costs. People tend to look at their house as an investment but at the end of the day it is their home and they will be paying the bills, paying for maintenance, replacement costs etc. Think of how you will use your house over a 25 year period and not just over the next few years when you will have a young family, hubby wanting games room, walk in wardrobes, 5 bedrooms, sun rooms etc etc.


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## blueband (9 Sep 2011)

another thing you could do is buy a ready made set of plans for a house you think will suit your needs, there are loads to choose from and quite cheap too!


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## onq (9 Sep 2011)

There's a reason they're cheap.


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