# Bad debts - can I sue without a solicitor?



## billythefish (20 Feb 2009)

Hi folks

I recently had to write off a debt of €500 + Vat from someone who refused to pay simply because the legal fees involved to pursue it were unfeasible.

I'd love to know how to bring a small debtor through the court system myself without the use of solicitors.

Can anyone point me in the right direction here?


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## 8till8 (20 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

For that level of money you are talking about the district court, so you'd have to file papers in the court, represent yourself and know the in's and out's of the legislation so the other side doesn't duck out on a technicality.
What about the cost of your time in learning all of that?  
Can you shop around for a cheaper solicitor? they are suffering a drop in business too so I imagine they are keen.


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## dinjoecurry (20 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

try get a cheap or just qualified solicitor to act for you on a no foal no fee basis I hate to see this sort of bad minded debtor getting away with not paying its not right or just and there should be some remedy such as a small claims court


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## billythefish (20 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

thanks for the replies folks.

8till8 to be honest, i think i'd be prepared to give it a go if there was somewhere i could learn the ins and outs. surely it can't be all that complicated. is it not just a case of filing a form, requesting/delivering a summons and turning up on the day to ask the judge for my money?

most of these guys don't even acknowledge a summons and it goes to judgement so i just feel it's worth looking into.


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## Caveat (20 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

Contact your local chamber of commerce - they may be able to advise in a general sense.  No harm in making them aware of a dodgy trader too (if they are local that is)


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## JoeB (21 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

I think it's worth looking into... as you say, if you write off the debt you get nothing.. you should be able to lodge papers in the district court for free or quite cheaply.. and then just turn up. If the guy gets off on a technicality he will probably have had to pay a solicitor for advice.. if he doesn't turn up you're onto a winner.. maybe.

I see two problems... serving the notice onto the debtor, can that be done by you? or by registered post perhaps?

And secondly, how do you enforce the judgement?, it seems that many debtors don't pay even when ordered to by the courts.

There was a case recently on Joe Duffy.. about Bondi Beach nightclubs or something.., judgement was awarded against him / them... and the sherrif was sent to collect.. and apparently the guy had no assets, despite the fact he was driving a BMW.  And so the creditors get nothing.


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## mooney76 (21 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

they have a great guy called el cobrodor del frac in spain, guy in a half black, half white suit with top hat who basicaly follows your debtor everywhere until he pays

very embarrasing,


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## billythefish (21 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

lol. i doubt he'd do that for a small cut of €500 + Vat though...


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

I suggested to the Small Firms Association that they would do up a DIY sue your clients for unpaid debts, but they didn't take me up on it.

Solicitors are not interested in debt collection. It's a very cumbersome process. 

But as a creditor and as it's my money, I would put up with the hardship of the paperwork. 



Brendan


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## elgransenor (22 Feb 2009)

*Re: Bad debtors*

Hi,
I have an article on my website( http://www.businessandlegal.ie ) about doing just this through the various courts.
You would be District Court and if you have a look at the article and then call in to the relevant District Court office they will be more than helpful.
And whats more it is actually pretty easy and can be done on a DIY basis.


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## billythefish (22 Feb 2009)

i'll get a look at that elgransenor cheers. also, brendan that was a good idea about the SFA. Pity they didn't take you up on it as I think they would have had a good response to a course like that.


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## Complainer (22 Feb 2009)

Vanilla provided details of how to enforce a judgement a long time ago. I'm not sure that it is something for the amateur to take on.


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## Bronte (23 Feb 2009)

I see no reason why you couldn't take this on yourself, nothing ventured nothing gained and at least you'll get the satisfaction of bringing the debtor to court, and don't forget even the receipt of a court summons may force him to start paying you back and maybe you won't have to go all the way.  It would be great if you could tell us how you get on on a step by step basis.  I know the staff in the District Court can be of great help so try there first.  Also visit the courts on the days it's hearing debt recovery cases to give you a feel for what goes on.  Best of luck.


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## billythefish (23 Feb 2009)

thanks bronte and yes, if i do decide to take it on myself I'll be sure to share anything i learn with you all...


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## sartay (20 Apr 2009)

Hi bilythefish, just wondered if you'd got anywhere with this? I'm in a similar position. I've read all the links in the thread which were very useful, I've tried contacting my local district court but they referred me to Dolphin House and I'm having trouble getting through. I don't suppose there's a step by step list somewhere online, including links to relevant forms? The links above have given loads of info which is great, but just with it being a legal process, I want to be sure that I'm doing everything 100% correctly. Thanks for any help!


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## rubywalsh (20 Apr 2009)

This might help http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=107420


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## ajapale (20 Apr 2009)

Admin Bump


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## Gervan (26 May 2009)

For a debt of this amount is the Small Claims Court not an option? Not allowed solicitor there


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## Darthvadar (26 May 2009)

Gervan said:


> For a debt of this amount is the Small Claims Court not an option? Not allowed solicitor there


 
I'm open to correction on this, but it has always been my belief that there's nothing to stop a litigant (or defendant) having a solicitor at a Small Claims hearing, you just can't claim the cost of having a solicitor from the other side should the judge award costs...


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## WaterSprite (26 May 2009)

Gervan said:


> For a debt of this amount is the Small Claims Court not an option? Not allowed solicitor there


 
Small claims doesn't deal with commercial transactions unfortunately.  There is definitely room for a mini-Commercial Court in Ireland.


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## jack2009 (3 Jun 2009)

Have a look at experian web site, I think they provide a cheap service ($50) and has a good success rate.


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## billythefish (3 Jun 2009)

Darrell said:


> Hi Billythefish,
> What was the debt for, and did the debtor give another specific reason for not wanting to pay You?



The debt was for professional services. He never gave a reason why he didn't want to pay. He just kept promising payment and never delivered....


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## samanthajane (3 Jun 2009)

I've been trying to find a link but i cant, maybe someone else will be able to. 

Someone posted about being owed money and wanted to know if legally he could stand outside thier premises/home and wave a huge sign saying "bills not paid" or something like that anyway. 

A few people came up with ideas on what to do or what they have done in the past, very funny to read and they got results from it as well. 

Maybe you could try this approach of course not breaking the law. Embarrassment have have a great effect when it comes to other people knowing your business.


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## samanthajane (3 Jun 2009)

ok found it http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=112020

have a read of this you night get some ideas.


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## delgirl (11 Oct 2009)

WaterSprite said:


> Small claims doesn't deal with commercial transactions unfortunately. There is definitely room for a mini-Commercial Court in Ireland.


Just in the last few days the Small Firms Association have called for the establishment of a Small Claims Court for businesses as small businesses are being strangled by late payments.

This can't come soon enough and I hope they have sufficient lobbying power to get the powers that be to set up this facility.

We are a small company struggling with cash flow as large clients who are perfectly capable of paying are withholding payment for up to 12 months in one case.

We've had to hand the case to our solicitor and no doubt they'll settle before it gets to court and we'll still be left to pay the solicitor's fees!

I won't mention any names, but the owner of this business drives a Bentley, lives in a mansion and has a helicopter!  This makes it even more galling that they refuse to pay for services supplied a year ago.


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## Father_Ted (11 Oct 2009)

What about Intrum Justica? They follow small payments on behalf of Eircom, less than €100 in a lot of cases and have the power to effect your credit rating or something along those lines. Even if you did not get your money from a client, at least you would have succeeded in hurting them by effecting their credit rating.


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## Bronte (12 Oct 2009)

I know of a large company that when it's the time for the end of quarterly accounts deliberately does not pay it's suppliers and other invoices.


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