# Welfare fraud - does it go to court



## johnd (16 Oct 2009)

I am writing on behalf of someone claiming social welfare for some years. At the start of their claim they were entirely honest about their means but in the last two years they came into some money and did not declare it to SW. They now want to come clean but are terrified about being done for welfare fraud and brought to court. What is the route SW usually takes in these circumstances. Will their claim be dismissed completely or will they be required to pay back the amount overpaid or is court likely. 

Practical advise please - they have had enough lectures

Many thanks


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## annet (17 Oct 2009)

Hi Johnd

I'd say the DSFA will investigate the claim - future claim - and if found that the person was overpaid or not entitled they could end up repaying that money.  

I would tell your friend - to go to free legal advice centres or citizens information.  They generally have information and advice evenings where solicitors give their time to advice on social welfare.... and other issues as well.  Give the "fraud" ramifications that could possibly arise - it would be best to get legal opinion so you know all possible consequences and especially what's the best way to handle declaring the settlement to the DSFA.  That would be my advice - other's may disagree.


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## monascribe18 (17 Oct 2009)

it would be madness to declare this or come clean,look at whats going on in government of the country its full of sharp practice,did they come clean?/i think not


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## Carey (17 Oct 2009)

I would advise them not to approach the DSFA without a solicitor in attendance.


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## gipimann (17 Oct 2009)

It is always better for your friend to approach SW rather than wait for SW to find out and "come calling".   Depending on the amount of money your friend received, there may not be an overpayment, or if there is, it may not be as much as might be feared.  Depending on the scheme being claimed, some savings are disregarded and not counted as part of a means test.

I suggest your friend makes an appointment with someone in the SW local office and declare the change in circumstances.  If he/she is still claiming, then an overpayment can be set up with deductions made weekly.


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## johnd (19 Oct 2009)

Thank you all you your help. Much appreciated.


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## rosemartin (19 Oct 2009)

i would approach them, if they come to you they may come down hard. if youl ook for a settlement to pay back monies owed, they will take it, that is how most welfare claims are dealt with.  they don't want court as much as you.  if you owe nothing after  this you arein the clear.2  tears penalties may not be too severe. play on the human nature of the person youare dealing with.  welfare will always take money first


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## Martin68 (22 Nov 2009)

I am in a similar situation to your friend and I am sick with worry every day thinking about it.
I inherited a house (Derelict -uninhabitable) two years ago.
I cannot get insurance for it (because of its condition).
I have it for sale (For whatever someone is willing to pay for it) as I want rid of it.
If I declare it , the value will probably be means tested (Valued at 100k)which will leave me nothing for to live on (I have a wife and a 10 year old son).
I am on invalidity pension due to spinal and nerve conditions but not life threatening.
I cancelled my mortgage relief as I told them I was able to budget my money.Its one less worry.
I have a home benefits pack that is means tested --but I am using a credit card (30k Limit)that I got when I was working --to make up the difference each week .I have about 2 months worth of mortgage left on the card and no one has shown any interest in the house.
All I want to do with any monies is reduce my mortgage and get a secondhand car(I live in the country -not a farmer)As my own car is 15 years old and the head is gone.And get rid of my credit card bill.(Then cut the card up)
Sorry for rabbiting on --But I know where your friend is coming from including the worry and the sleepless nights .
I sought legal advice and was told to "come clean" but then what do I live on? And I am sure your friend is thinking the same .


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## gipimann (22 Nov 2009)

Martin-
Invalidity Pension is based on PRSI contributions and isn't means tested, so wouldn't be affected by the property you own.
The Household Benefits Package (gas/electricity, phone, TV licence) isn't means tested either - entitlement is based on specific criteria (type of income, household composition).
You should contact MABS for help with your debts.


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## Martin68 (23 Nov 2009)

gipimann said:


> Martin-
> Invalidity Pension is based on PRSI contributions and isn't means tested, so wouldn't be affected by the property you own.
> The Household Benefits Package (gas/electricity, phone, TV licence) isn't means tested either - entitlement is based on specific criteria (type of income, household composition).
> You should contact MABS for help with your debts.


 
I checked up on what you said and thank God you are correct.
I know little about how welfare works as I used do 60+ hour weeks since I was sixteen .I was having nightmares about going to prison and having no medication with me (Silly I know)and a family disgraced for not declaring the house.
I will have to swallow my pride for my family's sake and get help with debts but this is hard for me as I would have taken a second job (Coal man/Door man/landscaping) anything to pay the bills but now I cannot walk 100 feet.But something has to be done as when I contacted the credit card company and the bank -they just said they had to be paid or I would be brought to court.
Again thank you so much for reply and apologies to original poster if I hijacked your topic --it was unintentional .


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## Bronte (23 Nov 2009)

Martin why don't you do the money makeover section, you may be able to get some good advise on your debts.  You shouldn't be doing this on your own.  You should speak to someone as this can make things easier on you.


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## Martin68 (23 Nov 2009)

Bronte said:


> Martin why don't you do the money makeover section, you may be able to get some good advise on your debts. You shouldn't be doing this on your own. You should speak to someone as this can make things easier on you.


 
Thank you for taking the time to give me this advice--I have been lost since I had to give up work-
Apologies again johnd as it wasn't my intention to start my own topic in yours .I replied to yours as I thought I was in the same situation. I Really hope your friends situation will turn out good for him/her as this country seems to have an attitude "Kick them when there up and kick them when there down"


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## Bronte (24 Nov 2009)

Martin68 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to give me this advice--I have been lost since I had to give up work-
> "


 
Martin no one can identify you on here.  Why don't you try and do the money makeover section.  You'd be amazed at how many people are in the same situation or similar to yours.  I've been unemployed and so have many others, there is no need to be lost.


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## Martin68 (24 Nov 2009)

Thanks for your kindness Bronte --I will try the money makeover section as I cannot leave thing go on as they are.


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