# What happens if sale order is given?



## Hope2divorce (4 Nov 2012)

Posted here before about my situation. Going through a divorce, ex has not contributed to mortgage in over 6 years, I have been paying. Now ex wants home in neg equity sold. If a judge orders this, do I have to move out of property straight away or do I have till a sale is agreed? Are contents of home seized too? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## JohnJay (4 Nov 2012)

Will your bank allow for the house to be sold, even if your ex wants to?


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## Hope2divorce (5 Nov 2012)

I honestly have no idea. They won't discuss it till it comes to court but I have a court date  now and would love to be prepared. Obviously best outcome is that the judge sees the logic and allows me to keep the house but in the event he does not, I want to be fully prepared for this too.


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## Gardener (5 Nov 2012)

You need to speak with the bank before you go to court.  

On the downside, the banks are not necessarily happy having one name as security on a mortgage and may ask you for proof of income and income projections into the future even though you are to solely contributing to the mortgage.  I presume you informed the bank six years ago that you were a sole contributor to the mortgage?  If so this may help your case.  

I have a friend who is in a similar situation and the bank refused to remove the ex's name off the mortgage.  The only option was to have the ex's name removed from the deeds whilst the ex would sill be liable for the debt; this of course is a no-brainer.  

I don't want to sound like I am prying but is it possible your ex could file for bankruptcy under the new legislation that will come into effect next year?


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## 44brendan (5 Nov 2012)

There is obviously more to this case than issues affecting the divorce. i.e. Any divorce or separation issues would be completely separate from bank proceedings for reposession.
If the matter has progressed as far as a Court date, it is likely that all MARP and other potential remedies have been put to the parties without a satisfactory resolution being reached. Do you have a solicitor acting for you? If not you should get one. Unless you are either represented in Court or represent yourself, the Bank will most likely be granted a posession order. In that instance, the Bank will re-posess the property after the stay period granted. Furniture etc will still remain your property. The worst thing you can do is to do nothing. Make sure that you are properly prepared for the Court process and if at all possible appoint a solicitor.


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## aoc (5 Nov 2012)

similar situation - but i went into bank and met mortgage lender - went thro all figures and they advised that i would be able to take over mortgage........ not sure why they won't speak to you....


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## Hope2divorce (5 Nov 2012)

Gardener said:


> You need to speak with the bank before you go to court.
> 
> On the downside, the banks are not necessarily happy having one name as security on a mortgage and may ask you for proof of income and income projections into the future even though you are to solely contributing to the mortgage.  I presume you informed the bank six years ago that you were a sole contributor to the mortgage?  If so this may help your case.
> 
> ...



Oh the banks have been dealing with me since he left on this. They are aware that I am trying to get his name off the deeds (he was agreeable to this but has now changed his mind and wants house sold instead). All monies paid have come straight from my bank account and they know he has never paid a thing. They just keep fobbing me off with 'just keep paying the way you are' bla bla bla. Never give me a straight answer. It is just up to the judge at this stage once divorce is granted whether he will decide to make me sell or allow me to keep my home. 

He has a stable job and has kids in Ireland that he won't leave (not mine) so if the house is to be sold, it will be me that has to file for bankruptcy


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## Hope2divorce (5 Nov 2012)

44brendan said:


> There is obviously more to this case than issues affecting the divorce. i.e. Any divorce or separation issues would be completely separate from bank proceedings for reposession.
> If the matter has progressed as far as a Court date, it is likely that all MARP and other potential remedies have been put to the parties without a satisfactory resolution being reached. Do you have a solicitor acting for you? If not you should get one. Unless you are either represented in Court or represent yourself, the Bank will most likely be granted a posession order. In that instance, the Bank will re-posess the property after the stay period granted. Furniture etc will still remain your property. The worst thing you can do is to do nothing. Make sure that you are properly prepared for the Court process and if at all possible appoint a solicitor.



I have a solicitor. It is not the bank bringing us to court, I have been dealing with them on this for years, it is purely divorce proceedings whereby I want to keep the home and he has decided after all this time he wants it sold. He wants his name off the mortgage which is fair enough but the banks won't deal with him or me to say if they will allow this after his name is taken off deeds so now he just wants a sale. We both have solicitors, I also have a barrister. It is not a repossession and I have done everything in my power to keep this house from being repossessed all these years by paying the mortgage.


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## Hope2divorce (5 Nov 2012)

aoc said:


> similar situation - but i went into bank and met mortgage lender - went thro all figures and they advised that i would be able to take over mortgage........ not sure why they won't speak to you....



I have sent them financial statements but they wont talk to me unless they get his. He wanted a transfer of equity done last year but then refused to sign forms. He is not allowing the mortgage company know how much he earns etc despite all the information being on his afidavit of means. They just won't discuss it right now as obviously it is better to have us both on the mortgage despite the fact he won't even take their calls. I feel like I am a hamster in a wheel.


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## Bronte (6 Nov 2012)

Oh my goodness all this money on solicitors and barristers. 

Can you clarify something. Have you asked your bank in writing to allow the mortgage to be transferred into your name?

Does you ex have a good income and is he actually choosing not to pay the mortgage?

If the judge order a sale and the house is in NE then after the sale both you and he will still owe the NE. But if your ex has no money then it will be you that pays.  Has your solicitor confirmed what will happen in court?

From the banks point of view, you've demonstrated that you can pay the mortgage and they are being plain stupid not allowing the transfer of mortgage to you. Have you pointed this out to them, in writing. Did you look at the post from a poster called FAY who managed to get a bank to agree to the mortgage transfer.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

Bronte said:


> Oh my goodness all this money on solicitors and barristers.
> 
> Can you clarify something. Have you asked your bank in writing to allow the mortgage to be transferred into your name?
> *I have asked time and again and told that 'it is something we can consider in the future' I.e if his name is off the deeds etc. Obviously he does not want this and I can understand why, so now he is pushing for a sale. *
> ...


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## terrysgirl33 (6 Nov 2012)

If he want's the house sold off, won't he then owe you his half of the mortgage payments for the last 6 years?  Do you have children together?


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## 44brendan (6 Nov 2012)

Given the problems you are encountering with the divorec issue, it is going to be extremely difficult to arrive at a solution where the property is kept in your name. This is difficult enough to achieve, with the co-operation of both parties and I can't see how it can work out in your own circumstances. Realistically, banks are very reluctant to relinquish the recourse to both parties, where a negative equity situation is evident, for obvious reasons. 
I agree that things do appear to be unfair, but you need to take the more pragmatic view on how you can best get out of this. In all probability a sale of the house is thae best option. This is likely to take time & will require the approval of the Bank. Are you currently paying the full mortgage? If so you might need to re-assess your situation. grand if you can comfortably meet the payments, but you'll get no thanks if you are struggling, as both of you are fully jointly liable on any residual debt. this is where you will need to get a good negotiating solicitor to deal with the Bank & get a deal on the residual debt that you can cope with. 
By the way, the Bank are not being "plain stupid" in transferring the mortgage into your sole name. It's no benefit to them to relinquish recourse to both parties.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

terrysgirl33 said:


> If he want's the house sold off, won't he then owe you his half of the mortgage payments for the last 6 years?  Do you have children together?



No children together thankfully. And no, sadly the bank see us as one entity once a mortgage is signed off so I will get no compensation for being the one who paid all this time.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

44brendan said:


> Given the problems you are encountering with the divorec issue, it is going to be extremely difficult to arrive at a solution where the property is kept in your name. This is difficult enough to achieve, with the co-operation of both parties and I can't see how it can work out in your own circumstances. Realistically, banks are very reluctant to relinquish the recourse to both parties, where a negative equity situation is evident, for obvious reasons.
> I agree that things do appear to be unfair, but you need to take the more pragmatic view on how you can best get out of this. In all probability a sale of the house is thae best option. This is likely to take time & will require the approval of the Bank. Are you currently paying the full mortgage? If so you might need to re-assess your situation. grand if you can comfortably meet the payments, but you'll get no thanks if you are struggling, as both of you are fully jointly liable on any residual debt. this is where you will need to get a good negotiating solicitor to deal with the Bank & get a deal on the residual debt that you can cope with.
> By the way, the Bank are not being "plain stupid" in transferring the mortgage into your sole name. It's no benefit to them to relinquish recourse to both parties.



up till 2 weeks ago I was discharging the full amount plus some extras as we had some arrears some years back that I have not been able to clear and he has not contributed to. Once the letter of sale order came through I decided to find out how mcuh the interest portion was and that is all I am paying since plus some extra for the arrears.. well, that is the idea anyway. I have to post the letter stating same to the mortgage company today. 

I do actually think the bank are silly not signing mortgage over to me. They know he won't even talk to them and in the event of a sale they will get nowhere near what they are owed. They can try come after us both for the money they will be owed out of a sale but he won't pay and in those circumstances I will have no choice but to look into bankruptcy in the UK myself.


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## Bronte (6 Nov 2012)

So there are historical arrears that you have not managed to pay off.  Your ex has money.  And now you're paying interest only, without the banks agreement.  

From the banks point of view they must think they will get something from you and your ex if they sell the house. 

What makes you think your ex will not have to pay the bank the NE shortfall?


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

the bank are not the ones trying to get the sale though - my ex is! The bank are only being made aware by me via letter than he is trying to get a sale order. Can they stop the sale do you think? All I want is to keep my home. My ex can walk away from arrears and NE. 

Not sure I understand what you mean by my ex paying the NE shortfall???


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## Bronte (6 Nov 2012)

44brendan said:


> By the way, the Bank are not being "plain stupid" in transferring the mortgage into your sole name. It's no benefit to them to relinquish recourse to both parties.


 
Well surely it's silly if the OP has demonstrated for 6 years that she was willing and able to pay the mortgage. 

Though in light of the fact that we now know the ex is a mark and that there are arrears it changes the story massively.


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## Bronte (6 Nov 2012)

Hope2divorce said:


> Not sure I understand what you mean by my ex paying the NE shortfall???


 
Out of his savings and income.  They will go after him (and you) with an instalment order. 

Did your ex tell the truth on his statement of means?


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

He won't give them a statement of means. He  has completely and totally blanked every advance by them all these years. He won't give them anything bar his phone number and even at that they cannot get him to answer. Even his solicitor refused to speak to them last month.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

They have told me they are willing to let me capitalise on the arrears but need his approval which he will not give.


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## Bronte (6 Nov 2012)

I think it's time to cut your losses, all I can see is a judge ordering the sale and after that the bank going for an instalment order on both of you. 

You mentioned UK, you might as well save up ALL your current and future mortgage payments to smooth the way there. You've no kids so it's easier for you than most. 

If your ex has means and thinks he'll win with the bank and he intends to stay in Ireland, he's on for a rude awakening. The bank must think either he or you both are a mark.

Can you clarify what it is exactly your solicitor has said you could win in court?


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

So the judge won't consider making me and my toddler homeless?? Or the fact I have been paying for all these years? That really is the worst outcome for me  

Do you think I should stop payments completely? The hearing is in January and that would be some saving for me considering I pay 1100 p/m. 

He is not a very clever person, he does not realise he can be stuck with debt. He is even looking for 'financial compensation' on his divorce papers. 

The bank know all of my financial details, I have told them honestly in a financial statement last month... not sure what they think of his as he won't talk to them. He has only a car as an asset and lives off his  girlfriend. He has savings locked into a CU loan which he took out to pay for legal fees. I have same. There is nothing else as far as I know unless he lied on his statement which is of course very possible.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

Just realised I never mentioned I have a child, we have none together but have one each separately. I am single though.


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## Seagull (6 Nov 2012)

Why would he want to force the sale of the house? As soon as he does that, he becomes liable for half the negative equity. If he just gets his name off the mortgage, he can walk away scot free.


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## Hope2divorce (6 Nov 2012)

Seagull, I know that, you know that and I am sure most educated animals know that. 
My ex is completely illogical, non sensical and spitefull. His options are :
A) take name off deeds, walk away with NO debt and wait a while till bank agree to take his name off mortgage
B) sell house, be liable for arrears/negative equity/costs.
He is choosing the latter to spite me.


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## Hope2divorce (25 Jan 2013)

Just a very quick update on this. I met with the bank and it was  a very positive meeting. I have also had the court hearing which my ex decided to not show up at which irritated the judge so in a nutshell, I have kept my home! Granted there are many other things that were dealt with and have to be dealt with but a removal of his name from title deeds was one thing and an order for myself to be solely able to liaise with the bank until such time as I am able to remove my ex from the mortgage. Just wanted to post what I personally perceive to be a very positive outcome and I am grateful for any information and advice received in recent months


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## Hope2divorce (25 Jan 2013)

Oh just to add, I also got my divorce


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## Bronte (25 Jan 2013)

Hope2divorce said:


> Just a very quick update on this. I met with the bank and it was a very positive meeting. I have also had the court hearing which my ex decided to not show up at which irritated the judge so in a nutshell, I have kept my home! Granted there are many other things that were dealt with and have to be dealt with but a removal of his name from title deeds was one thing and an order for myself to be solely able to liaise with the bank until such time as I am able to remove my ex from the mortgage. Just wanted to post what I personally perceive to be a very positive outcome and I am grateful for any information and advice received in recent months


 
This is marvellous news Hope2divorce.  Thank you so much for coming back to us as one does wonder sometimes if we are giving the right advice and it's good to know you had some help from AAM.   

Can you clarify something.  The bank have now agreed that you take over the mortgage, did they do that in writing and did you have that for the court date?  Did that help your case.  Did the judge then order your ex's removal from the title deeds?  It would be exceedingly helpful if you'd outline the steps to going into court that worked in your favour.  

Also imporant information from you is that the banks are now willing to deal with you and indeed that you had a positive meeting.  Did you have that meeting alone or with your solicitor?


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## Importer (25 Jan 2013)

Brilliant !!

I can understand your wish to get him removed from the title deeds.

Why are you so keen to get him removed from the mortgage also. If you do that he just walks free from the negative equity which he is jointly responsible for. It doesn't stop you from making the payments yourself even if his name remains on the loan.Getting him removed from the title deeds puts the ownership of the house in your name. If he remains on the mortgage there might be a chance to still recoup some money from him in relation to the loan, somewhere down the road ?

By releasing him from the mortgage, you are setting him free from his debts.


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## Hope2divorce (26 Jan 2013)

Bronte, the bank just gave me verbal instruction as to how things can proceed once his name was off the title deeds. They outlined and advised the best course of action going forward (capitalising the arrears and then obviously any extra I am paying per month comes off the total mortgage loan rather than hitting the sides of the interest on the arrears) and of course the sooner all that happens, the sooner I can start looking at getting a mortgage alone and/or removing his name from the mortgage in the future (not this year or next by any means) as the loan amount decreases. I went in armed with all of this information and letters from my employers to say I have a permanent job which is not going to be lost anytime soon, proof of all my prior bank payments and basically my solicitor outlined how much debt we would be in jointly if a sale was ordered. The judge then granted me what I was looking for which was to remove his name from the deeds plus ordered for him to either cooperate with the bank in full or to waive his right to deal with the bank. He chose the latter. I had the meeting alone but the bank manager was very helpful and actually took a phonecall from my solicitor too and outlined everything that had been said to myself.


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## Hope2divorce (26 Jan 2013)

Importer said:


> Brilliant !!
> 
> I can understand your wish to get him removed from the title deeds.
> 
> ...



Part of the agreement is that I try my best to remove his name from the actual mortgage too which is fair enough as I am now the owner of the home (or will be when mortgage is fully discharged!) It will be some years before this goes ahead so perhaps it won't be in as much neg equity by then but either way I have no intention to sell. I was fighting to get the house because it really is my home and not just a step till I find something bigger or better


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