# Rats are digging under the concrete &have chewed through the top of the wavin manhole



## wino (24 Nov 2010)

Hi, 

I have found a hole in the garden beside the path which has the sewer inspection manhole. 

Rats are digging under the concrete and have chewed through the top of the wavin manhole which gives them access to the sewers. 

I plugged up a previous redundant pipe in the manhole which had been used by them for quite some time. I have plugged this new tunnel and hole with broken glass and concrete and don't particularly want to put traps or poison down because of my young children. I fear I may have a battle on my hands.


Any advise would be much appreciated.

Wino


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## maureen (24 Nov 2010)

hi . I am not 100% sure but I think in some cases the local council will
sort out problem with rats otherwise you should get a pest controller. These could end up biting one of your children or worse still getting into your house then problem will be much worse. Good Luck


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## clonboy (24 Nov 2010)

introduce a few moggies??


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## TLC (25 Nov 2010)

Poison is probably your only answer - they can be very dangerous if they are around where people generally go - Weils disease etc.


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## wino (25 Nov 2010)

Thank you all for your replys, yes I am conscious of how this needs to be sorted quickly, no sign of them this morning. My next job will be to put a lid of some sort over the inspection hole to stop the rats getting in or out of the sewer, possibly with a mix of cement and glass. If that doesn't work I will get in the professionals. (that's not the moggies, clonboy)

Thanks again


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## computerman (25 Nov 2010)

Get a piece of 4" wavin, cut a 12 " length, get double sided tape (carpet tape is best) and put in center of the pipe. On the tape put 1/2 a tab of STORM. Put a large screw at either end of the pipe about an inch in. (screw it through the wall of the pipe), This will stop a larger animal (cat or dog) getting at the poison.

Place the pipe against a wall near the hole where the rats are comming from and partially cover.  The kids should not see it.

Check on the poison after a few days.  

Do not block the hole for a couple of days.  You want the rats to take the poison home with them.


Reminds me of an incident a couple of years ago where a polish couple were renting a flat with their 3 year old.  They had a rat problem in their kitchen.  The rat was coming in under the sink and strolling around the place larger than life.
The husband got some expanding foam and blocked the hole. He then put down rat poison.

A few days went by when the landlord got a phone call from a hysterical woman screaming in Polish. The landlord could not understand what she was saying, so he went down to the house.

During the night previous, the couple heard the usual noises coming from the kitchen, they were disappointed tothink that the rat(s) were still alive or still getting into the flat.  However, they realised that light was also coming from the kitchen - they always locked the door.

Mariusz (the hubby) got out of bed to see what was going on.  The 3 year old was on her hunkers sharing her biscuit with the rat who was eating it out of her hand.


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## wino (25 Nov 2010)

Thanks for that Computerman,

my concern is that by putting poison down, will the rats die in the sewer and block the drains or not wishing to sound too squeamish, will I find myself emptying the wavin pipe of dead rats on a regular basis?
I am touched by your more humane side but I don't think my wife would appreciate having a pet Rat!


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## bogle (25 Nov 2010)

computerman said:


> Get a piece of 4" wavin, cut a 12 " length, get double sided tape (carpet tape is best) and put in center of the pipe. On the tape put 1/2 a tab of STORM. Put a large screw at either end of the pipe about an inch in. (screw it through the wall of the pipe), This will stop a larger animal (cat or dog) getting at the poison.
> 
> Place the pipe against a wall near the hole where the rats are comming from and partially cover....



I used a slight variation on the wavin pipe idea when the buggers were paying a a visit to my composting bins last year. Bold as brass they were. It worked - no problems since.


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## computerman (25 Nov 2010)

Wino, the poison does not act immediatly, as far as I can remember it thins the blood and makes them thirsty, so they head for water and drink and drink and drink......

The idea is that they munch, and head back to the nest hopefully bringing some back for their little babies 

In my experience you never get one rat on its own.


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## dockingtrade (25 Nov 2010)

get a jack russell or get a guy with a ferret


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## steph1 (25 Nov 2010)

I agree with the above poster.  Get a jack russell they are brilliant 'ratters'  Maybe give a dog a second chance and go to the pound or rescue centres or look on ads on internet for people who need to rehome their dogs.  They make wonderful companions too and would be great for your kids to grow up with.


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## ophelia (26 Nov 2010)

I have had a rat in the garden a couple of times and just put down a rat trap. On both occasions I was rewarded with a dead rat. I found the entry point under the gate and closed it up - no more rats. I would be very cautious laying poison, especially with children around. Of course, take precautions if you lay a trap, as rat traps are pretty lethal things. If you don' t have a cat, borrow one from a neighbour for a few hours and see if she comes up with anything. I wouldn't worry about rats 'biting' children as they are very shy and cautious creatures but I would worry about Weils disease and the risk of poison.


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## computerman (26 Nov 2010)

Our catwill only catch mice/birds if she is in the mood.  I have seen her sit while a mouse walked past her - she yawn'd.

I would presume most cats are the same. I would also presume that there is a possibility of a rat doing a little damage to a cat. 

I would assume that if I got a loan of a cat or dog to catch a rat, the likely hood is that the rat would stay in its nest till the cat/dog went away. 

Also what is to stop the cat leaving the second you put it in the garden?


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## wishbone (26 Nov 2010)

bogle said:


> I used a slight variation on the wavin pipe idea when the buggers were paying a a visit to my composting bins last year. Bold as brass they were. It worked - no problems since.


 
do you put cooked stuff in your compost bin?  I heard that attracted rats, we only put in raw peelings etc, and to date (thankfully) haven't had any issues with rats.


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## wino (26 Nov 2010)

No, I don't have a compost bin, I think the rats have been using this hole in the sewer for a long time, possibly before I bought the house and have gotten used this this route. No sign of any disturbance this morning but I will check out poisons and other deterrents over the weekend. I don't think borrowing a cat would work, the only thing I'd be sure of there is that they would soil my vegtable plot.


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## Sim Two (26 Nov 2010)

Where can I get STORM tablets?


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## bullworth (26 Nov 2010)

dockingtrade said:


> get a jack russell or get a guy with a ferret



if a dog or a cat is in physical contact with a rat can they then  catch something  and pass it onto someone in the family who is in contact with the family pet  ?


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## shakeymathun (26 Nov 2010)

Woodies sell STORM tablets.


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## computerman (26 Nov 2010)

bullworth, one common denominator - fleas on a rat can transfer to a cat or dog.


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## bogle (26 Nov 2010)

wishbone said:


> do you put cooked stuff in your compost bin?  I heard that attracted rats, we only put in raw peelings etc, and to date (thankfully) haven't had any issues with rats.



Nope - mainly uneaten fruit & vegetables, peelings etc and the like. They borrowed down underneath the bottom edge of the bins and right up through the center of the compost to get at the "freshest" stuff at the top. I filled in their tunnels a few times but they always dug new ones. A neighbor told me about the wavin pipe idea - and it worked. Some people suggest sitting the bins on a wire mesh to keep them out. One thing to remember is that if you think rats have been in your compost they will have also sh?t and p?ssed in it and you should always wear gloves and don't handle it with bare hands.


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## bullworth (27 Nov 2010)

computerman said:


> bullworth, one common denominator - fleas on a rat can transfer to a cat or dog.



what about diseases  ? a family pet is normally held and petted a lot especially by children.


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## wino (30 Nov 2010)

Gone with computerman's suggestions, three wavin pipes with three storms tablets in each put into the garden this morning, 
War has begun!


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## computerman (30 Nov 2010)

Glad to help!
Just one thing, 1 tablet broken into 3 or 4 pieces would be enough.  You do not want a rat trying to carry one of the big tablets back to the nest and then dropping it in the garden and leaving it behind.


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## steadyeddie (2 Dec 2010)

*rat hole*

hi just want to say that steel wool is great for blocking any rat holes


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## wino (3 Dec 2010)

Thanks steadyeddie, 
I did hear that. The story so far...
Two rats actually ran past me in the garden this morning and down into the hole, they have taken some of the poison so we'll have to wait and see.I won't be able to block up any new holes until the garden thaws out but I was told that I may have a serious problem if I spot any rats during the day. Perhaps it's just the weather that has them out during day light hours..


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## noboc (3 Dec 2010)

I woke up this morning found a hole in daughters bed room by the door. Also I found a hole in the hall upstairs.

I put glass and fibre glass and poison down.

I walked into kitchen today and there was a rat looking at me. 

Any advice I would be ever so grateful.


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## pat_os (3 Dec 2010)

Had a huge problem with rats in the garden when we moved in to the house first. Cleaned out the the compost bin on a daily basis. Laid poison and couldn't keep it there fast enough. They were eating it by the box. Got a cat and no more rats to be seen and no evidence of them either except for the odd one he brings home. Noboc if they're in the house then I would say put down traps as soon as possible and put them everywhere. Don't use poison in the house or they'll just die and you'll be left trying to find the bodies.


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## bogle (4 Dec 2010)

Concerning the compost bins in our garden, when I first used the poison blocks I put it in the top of the compost in the bins. And the next day the blocks would be completely gone. Problem solved I thought - but no they still came back! Then I was told about the wavin pipe idea. I was told to make sure that the rats couldn't take the blocks of poison away in one piece, so I tied the blocks to a piece of board and placed the board in the wavin pipes - used 2 lengths of pipe laid beside the wall adjacent to the bins. On checking over the next few days about half of each block would be eaten each time. Replaced each block as they were eaten through (wearing gloves). After about a week they stopped taking the poison and there were no more visits to the bins. 
I think rats in a dwelling should be dealt with urgently by a professional pest control company like rentokill   (no connection).


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## wino (14 Dec 2010)

Hi, 
for those who helped me out. I'm losing the battle and have just called in Rentokil. The first batch of poison was taken away by the rats but the second is still there. I cemented up the next hole in the wavin pipe but the buggers are still getting in. I now have three seperate holes in the garden with the rats burrowing under anything I seem to cover the holes up with. Does anybody know is it possible for rats to get up through a downstairs loo?...I heard that they don't like getting their heads wet swimming through the "S" trap but I'm now very concerned.


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## ophelia (15 Dec 2010)

ophelia said:


> I have had a rat in the garden a couple of times and just put down a rat trap. On both occasions I was rewarded with a dead rat. I found the entry point under the gate and closed it up - no more rats. I would be very cautious laying poison, especially with children around. Of course, take precautions if you lay a trap, as rat traps are pretty lethal things. If you don' t have a cat, borrow one from a neighbour for a few hours and see if she comes up with anything. I wouldn't worry about rats 'biting' children as they are very shy and cautious creatures but I would worry about Weils disease and the risk of poison.



As I said, you should have used traps - thats how I controlled the problem on two separate occasions.


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## wino (15 Dec 2010)

Thank you for the "I told you so" but do you see the irony in having to use the traps twice though?


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## ophelia (16 Dec 2010)

The two incidents were years apart.


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## wino (16 Dec 2010)

Apologies Ophelia,
I think I'm just more up the walls than I hope the rats will ever be, thank you for your suggestions.


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## computerman (17 Dec 2010)

If you have one rat in your dwelling and you know its "run", a trap or two will do. 

As an added protection you can put down the "stickeys", the problem with this is the rat can chew off its leg to get away.

Outside poison is your only man. There are "high tech" traps which electrocute the rat as it enters the trap, otherwise prolong the use of poison.  As I said the pellets have to be small.  Where possible block off any scource of food (as has already been stated eg bins, compost etc etc).

In the UK they can use pellet guns to kill the rodents, here we are limited to the points discussed.

Wino let us know how you got on with the pest control co.


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## magicbeans (24 Dec 2010)

computerman said:


> Get a piece of 4" wavin, cut a 12 " length, get double sided tape (carpet tape is best) and put in center of the pipe. On the tape put 1/2 a tab of STORM. Put a large screw at either end of the pipe about an inch in. (screw it through the wall of the pipe), This will stop a larger animal (cat or dog) getting at the poison.
> 
> Place the pipe against a wall near the hole where the rats are comming from and partially cover. The kids should not see it.
> 
> ...


 
+ 1. Done this a few years ago. Keep replacing the poison each morning untill they stop taking it. You can put out a few short pipes next to/on rat pads / runs, and secure the pipes with conc. blocks etc. Both ends of the pipe must be open or the rat may not enter. The pipes are great for keeping the poison away from curious kids / pets. We had a real bad rat problem, and I went through 20 blocks in a few weeks, but then that was it, never had rats here in years since. One block will kill one rat. Block all holes you can find. They can get in the smallest of holes. They can even come in through your ESB and Eircom ducts, make sure where the ducts enter your ESB and Eircom boxes are blocked with expanding foam. They have even been known to be able to cling to overhead wires coming into houses and getting onto / into roofs that way. Happy hunting.


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## wino (6 Jan 2011)

Hi, happy New year to one and all,
the rat story so far. Rentokil have called twice and traps and poisons are still down, one more visit is paid for ..242 up front!. Up untill two days ago I thought the problem was solved. As instructed the access hole has been left open but there now seems to be more activity. Rats came up through it last night with a small sign that they have nibbled some of the poison put down by Rentokil. 
They aren't touching the broken up storm tablets that I have in the wavin pipes. I'm wondering at this stage should I seal the hole up with cement and also put a metal lid down inside the sewer inspection hole to prevent accesss or exit from these cursed rats and see how that works. Garden is still out of bonds for my kids.


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## #1Arnold (6 Jan 2011)

I've had friends who got a few cats and just left them outside (except for food water etc).  They eventually got all of the rodents, mice, rats, etc.


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## Toby (6 Jan 2011)

For about 5 years now we've had a rat problem - living in dublin. They keep returning to our garden. WE keep finding new holes and they keep taking the poison we put out. We have a deck adn they seem to live under it. Have had rat babies wandering around our deck on one occasion. Foudn a few dead rats in garden. 

CoCo have put down poison, we're always putting down Storm, nothing seems to get rid of them. Don't know how to even check where they are coming in.

I'm terrified they'd get into house somehow - I've gotten used to them being in the garden and being paranoid about the kids being out there but I'd lose the plot if they got into the house. 

BTW Rentokil and similar companies were useless, they said all they can do is do what we're doing - put down poison and check it occasionally.

Whats the best way to stop them coming into house?

And BTW re coming up thru toilet, I'm convinced I head rat noises in the toilet pipes one night, flushed and it stopped. Not sure if they'd come up thru the water but I keep lids closed as much as possible.


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## ophelia (6 Jan 2011)

#1Arnold said:


> I've had friends who got a few cats and just left them outside (except for food water etc).  They eventually got all of the rodents, mice, rats, etc.



Agree!


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## wino (7 Jan 2011)

Crikey, I thought I had problems Toby. Talking to neighbours it does seem that decking does seem to encourage the rats to stay. In regards to the toilets I was told by a builder that he knew first hand that they could get up but that was in Australia. My downstairs loo comes vertically up from the foundations and I can't see how they could get up and out through the waterlogged S trap but I do agree with you in that I'm finding myself puting the seat cover now. I'm not too impressed either with Rentokil, they do seem to be doing exactly what I'm doing. I will give it another week, get them in for their last visiit and take it from there.


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## ophelia (7 Jan 2011)

I don't mean to frighten wino and Toby but there are some very scary videos on You Tube of rats coming up the toilet bowl.  I doubt just closing the lid would suffice to keep them out if they did happen to stroll up. I would be putting something weighty on the closed lid if I had a substantial rat problem.
Just get rid of the decking if it is causing a persistent problem with rats, certainly get a cat too and I bet that will send them packing.
I am speaking from experience of having the odd rat and from suffering from complete rat paranoia for ages after it.


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## lightswitch (7 Jan 2011)

Really sorry re your situation.  The only long term solution is to get a cat or two.  My sister currently has rats visiting her back garden and has rent to kill boxes out now to kill them off.  She unlike me is not an animal lover but realises the only solution is get a cat and let it live in her garden shed.  I personally keep cats to deter mice and never have a problem.  A slightly wild cat is best in my experience as a previous poster said some are better hunters than others.


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## Birroc (7 Jan 2011)

lightswitch said:


> Really sorry re your situation.  The only long term solution is to get a cat or two.  My sister currently has rats visiting her back garden and has rent to kill boxes out now to kill them off.  She unlike me is not an animal lover but realises the only solution is get a cat and let it live in her garden shed.  I personally keep cats to deter mice and never have a problem.  A slightly wild cat is best in my experience as a previous poster said some are better hunters than others.



If everyone got a 'slightly wild' cat to deter rats, there would be no birds left too.


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## Murfnm (7 Jan 2011)

Or if you are not a cat person - how about a Jack Russell or other such terrier?


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## Birroc (7 Jan 2011)

magicbeans said:


> Keep replacing the poison each morning untill they stop taking it.



Nope this is wrong. Rats tend to store/stockpile freely available food. The key is to put the poison out every 3-4 days even if it is taken soon after you put it out. They are more likely to eat it then. I think the Storm containers give the same advice. 2 to 3 weeks of that should kill them off.


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## ophelia (7 Jan 2011)

Birroc said:


> If everyone got a 'slightly wild' cat to deter rats, there would be no birds left too.



True, Birroc, but we are talking here about one persons very specific problem with rats. I think what the poster meant was to keep the cat outdoors as much as possible in order to deter the rats from coming in to the garden. Rats are clever creatures and they will not come in if they know the risk.


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## lightswitch (7 Jan 2011)

Birroc said:


> If everyone got a 'slightly wild' cat to deter rats, there would be no birds left too.[/QUOTE
> 
> Slightly wild cats exist anyway, so it is just a matter of re-locating one - zero net impact to Birds though it is true that some will die due to the cat. In my mind it is a matter of whether you are willing to live with the rodents rather than have a cat. A jack russell as another poster says is also a possible solution, cats just take less maintenance.
> 
> By the way it was the bird feeding tables that attracted the rats to my sisters garden. In case anyone else spotted it yes I did start a thread " Feed the garden Birds" during the recent snow


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## Toby (7 Jan 2011)

Gettig a cat or dog has been discussed here but with a baby and small kids in the house I don't want animals inside - maybe in a few years. 

maybe I'll start a different thread on this, but if we got a cat - first how would you get it to stay in your garden and not go live somewhere else and also is it possible to keep it outside or would it keep coming in?



ophelia said:


> Just get rid of the decking if it is causing a persistent problem with rats,


 


This has also been discussed but there is significant cost associated with that as we'd have to get the area paved instead!


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## Toby (7 Jan 2011)

Birroc said:


> Nope this is wrong. Rats tend to store/stockpile freely available food. The key is to put the poison out every 3-4 days even if it is taken soon after you put it out. They are more likely to eat it then. I think the Storm containers give the same advice. 2 to 3 weeks of that should kill them off.


 
I'd agree with this, we were putting out lotsa Strom nearly every day for a while this autumn and it struck us that the rats obviously weren't eating it as they'd be dead ten times over - they must have been stockpiling it - yuck!


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## johnnygman (7 Jan 2011)

Today, 02:47 PM 
Toby 
Frequent Poster
Posts: 517 



Gettig a cat or dog has been discussed here but with a baby and small kids in the house I don't want animals inside - maybe in a few years. 

maybe I'll start a different thread on this, but if we got a cat - first how would you get it to stay in your garden and not go live somewhere else and also is it possible to keep it outside or would it keep coming in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *ophelia* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1123143#post1123143 
_Just get rid of the decking if it is causing a persistent problem with rats,_



This has also been discussed but there is significant cost associated with that as we'd have to get the area paved instead! 



A little kennel outside for the cat with some nice warm bedding inside, if you get it as a kitten young enough it will know this as home, few feeds a day and your only problem with rats will be where to put the dead ones that he/she will leave at the door. If the cat lives outside he will always have that wild instinct and will hunt, they will kill some birds sadly but small price to keep away dirty rats...Rats wont come around then as they will know there is a cat in the area..


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## Birroc (11 Jan 2011)

lightswitch said:


> Slightly wild cats exist anyway, so it is just a matter of re-locating one - zero net impact to Birds though it is true that some will die due to the cat. In my mind it is a matter of whether you are willing to live with the rodents rather than have a cat. A jack russell as another poster says is also a possible solution, cats just take less maintenance.
> 
> By the way it was the bird feeding tables that attracted the rats to my sisters garden. In case anyone else spotted it yes I did start a thread " Feed the garden Birds" during the recent snow



I reckon poison will get rid of any infestation of rats better than a cat. All you need to do is find the 'rat runs' and place the poison ensuring to have it in a place that birds cant access - use wire mesh (chicken wire) if needs be. In the cold weather the rats were desperate and it was easy to spot their rat runs especially when leaving food out for birds. Once you find a few active rat runs where the bait is being taken, put out a few pellets of poison every 3/4 days and by 3 weeks the bait should remain untouched. Do not overdo the dosage - read rat poison instructions. Storm are best for me. Leave the untouched poison there for a while in case newcomers move in.

I find that rats will be using compost bins for 2 reasons - to stay sheltered/warm or to eat rotting vegetables. Rats don't normally want to eat rotten vegetables and generally only do so where there is a lot of rotting 'meat' (usually waste/poo in septic tank pipes or sewers) in their diet and they need to 'balance' the diet (dont ask me why). So if you notice rat activity in your compost bins look out for their main source of 'waste' food i.e. holes in sewer pipes. As someone else mentioned, put wire mess (lots of it) or plasterer's wire grids under the compost bin to prevent access.

Some people use big rat traps but its a slow process if there is an infestation and they can also kill birds.


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## wino (12 Jan 2011)

I agree. I'd rather not have a cat and as I do like seeing birds in the garden. I mightn't have any choice, Three visits later from Rentokil and the rats are still here. They seem to be bypassing the poisons put down by myself and rentokil and are just using the sewer as access. rentokil have agreed to call out again at no extra charge and have instructed me not to block up the hole. I have even bought a cake tin the same circumference as the manhole to block off the hole and then perhaps dig out a trench and cement the hole in the garden. Sounding demented or what!


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