# Attic conversion - compliance



## valiant (7 Apr 2011)

Hi folks,

  I am considering an attic conversion at the moment, but compliance with the current build regulations would seem to be prohibitive. 

  In particular the fire compliance for a “habitable” room seems to quite onerous, although I am sure well intentioned.

  From what I can see one would need to install auto closing file doors in every room off the stairs/hall, replace any opening windows in the stairs/hall with fire resistant windows that cannot be opened, ensure/upgrade all walls that enclose the stairs/hall are fire resisting (30 mins), the floor between ground and first floor, and between first floor and attic need to be upgraded to be fire resistant for 30mins.

  Also provision of smoke alarms and attic egress (these are not onerous).

  Anecdotally has anyone actually seen an attic conversion that complies with these regulations? 


I assume most conversions are considered "non-habitable" and they get used in an non-compliant fashion.


  Thanks.


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## Docarch (7 Apr 2011)

I have insisted on every attic conversion I have done for clients (as an architect) that they comply with all requirements of Part B of the Building Regulations (Fire) whther or not the attic is deemed 'habitable' or 'non-habitable'. In fairness, most of these jobs have involved other works within a house so chagning doors to fire doors is not such a big deal. 

Just bear in mind with regard to the question of 'habitable' or 'non-habitable'. Part B of the building regulations has it's own definition of habitable:

*Habitable Room *- A room used for living or sleeping purposes but does not include a kitchen having a floor area less than 6.5 m2, a bathroom, toilet or shower room.

This is quite different to the definition of 'habitble' as defined/contained in Part F of the Building Regulations (Ventilation) regarding ceiling heights, etc. ​ 
My advice: Whatever other Building Regulations you might disregard, do not disregard regulations concerning fire!  The other thing is that I think it would be foolish for anybody on here to advise you that you do not need to comply with Building Regulations.​


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## threebedsemi (8 Apr 2011)

Valiant
What you describe are the works recommended under the Irish Building Regulations to ensure safe escape from a three storey house. 
I agree fully with Docarch that you shouldn’t disregard the fire safety regulations, and I would point out that these recommendations are based on studies which have shown that a second floor in a domestic house presents a greater fire risk than a first floor.

Part of the reason is that you cannot easily and safely get a ladder up to a second floor window, while getting one up to a first floor window is far more manageable. 

An alternative option is to create a second means of escape from the second floor, which is usually provided by means of an external stairs connected to the third floor by means of a door or large window.

There may also well be a ‘fire engineering’ solution to the problem, but this is likely to be as invasive and costly as upgrading your staircase.

You are not obliged to comply with the Irish building regulations by the way, and if you can find another European fire safety regulation relating to domestic buildings you are perfectly entitled to comply with this standard instead. Good luck with getting an Irish agent to certify to the Spanish or Finnish regulations however. 

Incidentally, the British regulations are almost exactly the same as the Irish ones in this regard.

You also need to insure that you don’t have an insurance issue, if you construct something that does not meet the building regulations and the unmentionable happens.

www.studioplustwo.com


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## valiant (8 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

  Indeed, I would not expect anyone to advise not to comply with the regulations. However, I was wondering in reality how often are these regulations are complied with? I personally cannot think of any 2 storey house + conversion that I have been to that complies with this, at least auto closing doors do not feature.

  For example if you look around on this forum where people discuss prices for attic conversions and works to be carried out, it seems most people discuss the upgrade of the structure in the upper level of the house, but not the cost of the upgrade works to ensure the that the stairs is enclosed and sealed (e.g. upgrade partitions, replace windows, fit auto-close doors, upgrade fire separation for the ground to first floor, etc).

  Do these additional works make a conversion cost prohibitive when not carried out as part of major refurb?

  I will make every effort to comply with the fire regulations in my build, but I wonder what are the real consequences for (what I think is the majority of people) for not complying? 

  Insurance default? Personal liability? Anyone know of such a case?


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## threebedsemi (8 Apr 2011)

Valiant

As regards the cost, half-hour rated fire doorsets can be purchased for about €250-€350 per unit (bear in mind its not just the door that needs replacing in most cases, but the frames as well). Your existing timber stud or blockwork walls might well be half hour fire proof as they are.

It is impossible to accurately price a job without seeing it, and your agent should have a good grasp on the works required and be able to spec it up for you.

You are also basically asking how often do people not comply with the law, which is probably not going to be answered here. My advice is obviously to comply with the law, as it is there for a reason.

What are the real consequences if you dont comply? Well, if you have a house fire, someone sleeping on the second floor may not be able to safety escape from the house. On top of that an insurance inspection afterwards might well spot that you did not comply with the building regulations, site clause xxy of your insurance policy, and refuse to pay out on your claim.

I have not personally heard of the insuance problem happening in practice, but the possibility is cetainly there.

The most important fact however, its that its a fair jump from a second floor window.   

www.studioplustwo.com


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