# The Central Bank has been too passive in dealing with the tracker issue



## elacsaplau (9 Mar 2019)

TMH2017 said:


> it still amazes me that after 10 years, nearly 40,000 cases that their are still significant groups still fighting cases where the weight of evidence is so much in favour of the customer *and the central bank remains as passive as ever!*[*/*QUOTE]



Well said - would there still be any need for the AIB Tracker Campaign Committee if the Regulator is capable of regulating?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2019)

Let's look at the Central Bank in a balanced way....

First, they were very slow to do anything about the tracker issue. Deduct marks for that.
Second, they persuaded the lenders to go well beyond their legal obligations. About 30,000 borrowers have got significant redress. My guess is that about 1,000 of these would have succeeded in the Ombudsman's Office if they had taken a complaint. A big plus for the Central Bank.

AIB was absolutely clear that these 6,000 borrowers have suffered no loss and so they were refusing point blank to even write to them telling them that there had been an issue. 

The Central Bank persuaded AIB to write to all of them and give them the right of appeal - a big plus for the Central Bank. 

AIB refused to go any further. It is not the role of the Central Bank to make a legal determination. That is up to the courts. So even if the Central Bank believes that the borrowers have a strong case, they can't force AIB to concede it. 

Governor Lane at the Oireachtas Committee appeared to lend support to AIB's case by saying that the tracker rates would have been much higher.  I will deduct marks for that. 

Derville Rowland later rowed back from that. 

So overall?  Late to the party, but a good performance since they arrived.  Maybe 8/10. 

Brendan


----------



## elacsaplau (9 Mar 2019)

Let's look at the Central Bank in a balanced way....

Did all banks comply with the CPC code in all cases where customers still have complaints?

If not, what has the Regulator of the CPC done about it?

My view of the CB's performance in the two cases in which I am very very familiar is FAIL, as in, 2 maybe 3 out of 10!

It is not the role of the CB to make legal determinations - it is its role to regulate.


----------



## RETIRED2017 (9 Mar 2019)

elacsaplau said:


> Let's look at the Central Bank in a balanced way....
> 
> Did all banks comply with the CPC code in all cases where customers still have complaints?
> 
> ...


Before this is finished the State could finish up picking up a large tab,


----------



## Sarenco (9 Mar 2019)

I know this isn't a popular view but I wouldn't congratulate the Central Bank for not respecting the actual contract wording.  I think that's positively dangerous.

Proper regulation should be grounded on clear, published rules - not the Central Bank's ever evolving "expectations".


----------



## TMH2017 (9 Mar 2019)

if i was working in a private company and there was a serious issue in the area i had responsibility for and i did very little to address the issue for 8 years i don’t think i would be getting an 8 out of 10 rating in any performance review 

anyway its only forces outside the central bank (press, politicians, advocates like yourself and padraic kissane) pushing this issue who have got us to this stage


----------



## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2019)

TMH2017 said:


> i did very little to address the issue for 8 years i don’t think i would be getting an 8 out of 10 rating in any performance review



Hi TMH

There are individuals in the Central Bank who have done a terrible job. But I feel that they have been replaced by some of the current people who are doing a good job. I don't know the individuals well enough to know how long they have been there.

Brendan


----------



## Bronte (9 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Let's look at the Central Bank in a balanced way....
> 
> First, they were very slow to do anything about the tracker issue. Deduct marks for that.
> Second, they persuaded the lenders to go well beyond their legal obligations. About 30,000 borrowers have got significant redress. My guess is that about 1,000 of these would have succeeded in the Ombudsman's Office if they had taken a complaint. A big plus for the Central Bank.
> ...


Honestly BB this is a crazy view. The CB failed massively. The banks committed powerful financial chicanery on many people. We had no hope. I took a case against UB to the ombudsman never knowing I had zero chance of succeeding after months of ‘letters’ to not answer me from UB ( I have the files if UB threatens you in relation to my post).

You always omit to say that the little guy against the big bank should have strong suppport from the CB.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2019)

Bronte said:


> I took a case against UB to the ombudsman never knowing I had zero chance of succeeding after months of ‘letters’ to not answer me from UB



The Ombudsman and the Central Bank are different institutions. 

Are you now saying that the Ombudsman failed you because they did not uphold your complaint? 

Brendan


----------



## elacsaplau (10 Mar 2019)

Bronte said:


> Honestly BB this is a crazy view. The CB failed massively. The banks committed powerful financial chicanery on many people......You always omit to say that the little guy against the big bank should have strong suppport from the CB.



Well said, Bronte

Does anyone, apart from our honourable leader, believe that the CB has regulated well?

I once was at a speech given by Ms. Rowland of the CB. She had a slide presentation which had at the outset something along the lines that compliance with the Consumer Protection Code was not just about ensuring that its provisions were followed. Compliance, she said, was about embracing the spirit of the CPC, about "doing the right thing when no one was watching". Such a beautiful soundbite!

When the presentation was finished, an intelligent observer made the following cooment during the Q&A. He said that it seemed to him that banks had directly ignored many of the provisions of the CPC and that they had "not done the right thing even when everyone was watching." He went on to say that it was the CB's duty to be watching, to be the watchdog and that the banks seemed to be as fearful of this watchdog as a thief would fear an incapacitated poodle. Colourful language and imagery and when Ms. Rowland tried to reply it was obvious to all present that these simple observations left no credible response.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2019)

About 30,000 people have got significant redress following the restoration of their trackers. ( 40,000 in total, but about 10,000 were very small.) 

Before the redress scheme set up by the Central Bank, how many do you think got their tracker back due to complaining directly to the lenders or by going to the Ombudsman or by going to the courts? 

Brendan


----------



## kb_whatsgoingon (11 Mar 2019)

Over the past year of researching the tracker mortgage issue I am utterly utterly shocked by what the banks have done and continue to do -  i can see little to praise the CBI for in all this  - where were they this past 10-15 years  - its truely shocking what has been allow to happen- my advice if you can at all manage it - stay as far away as possible from any of these corrupt irish banking organisation


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> About 30,000 people have got significant redress following the restoration of their trackers. ( 40,000 in total, but about 10,000 were very small.)
> 
> Before the redress scheme set up by the Central Bank, how many do you think got their tracker back due to complaining directly to the lenders or by going to the Ombudsman or by going to the courts?



Would any of you like to suggest an answer to this? 

Brendan


----------



## Trackman (15 Mar 2019)

The Central Bank is a privately owned bank, does not regulate interest rates or money flow. 

From 2003-2007 the PIGS received a 50% increase in money flow from German&French banks(approved by the ECB) while Germany and France reduced theirs by 10%

Central banks don't serve the people.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Mar 2019)

Trackman said:


> The Central Bank is a privately owned bank, does not regulate interest rates or money flow.



Nonsense. It's a public entity.

Some central banks (Greece and Belgium I think) are somewhat privately owned, but not in Ireland.


----------



## Trackman (15 Mar 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Nonsense. It's a public entity.
> 
> Some central banks (Greece and Belgium I think) are somewhat privately owned, but not in Ireland.



Excuse my wording........privately run bank



Our *Mission*. 

The *Central Bank* of Ireland serves the public interest by safeguarding monetary and financial stability and by working to ensure that the financial system operates in the best interests of consumers and the wider economy.

Considering the last 20 years, bit of a strange one?


----------



## B26354 (15 Mar 2019)

Trackman said:


> Excuse my wording........privately run bank
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The central bank may reason that the wider public interest can be served by protecting banks...particularly state owned banks. That might mean a few thousand customers getting shafted.


----------



## Trackman (16 Mar 2019)

People who accidentally receive money into their bank accounts end up in court if they spend it.

Banks knowingly took money from customers and spent it.

The redress & costs attributed to the tracker fraud means no one will go to court. Bankers impunity-The real cost of the tracker fraud


----------

