# Tenant won't move out



## corco2000 (4 Sep 2006)

Whats the best coarse of action when you serve notice on tenant for non payment of rent and after 28 days they T still refuses to move out 'because they cant find anywhere else'. Call guards, move in yourself, contact solicitor, prtb?


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## rkeane (4 Sep 2006)

take a day off work and change the locks?


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## corco2000 (4 Sep 2006)

Is that lawfull? What do you do with his contents-arrange a meeting for him to collect them?Im tempted to give a couple of more weeks cause I think there might be a newly born baby in the house, irrelevant I know but only if arrears are paid.


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## rkeane (4 Sep 2006)

Well I think it might be up to you.  If you want to show compassion for a new born baby then fair play but you may want to back date all of this unpaid rent.  Ask him his situation instead of just assuming there is a baby.


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## corco2000 (4 Sep 2006)

Estate agent called him again seems bit cheeky saying I can sue him if he likes etc and that he has squatters rights. Id have no guarentees that he will move out the end of Sep.He siad I can keep entire security desposit if I let him stay.Confused. Im gona think about it and call him myself later.


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## rkeane (4 Sep 2006)

How often has he missed rent?  if your losing money then its not a good deal for you.  I'm sure he does have squatters rights but you have rights too.  He only has squatters rights when he's in the house....


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## NHG (4 Sep 2006)

Go across and meet them yourself - don't arrange an appointment just arrive - easy be brave & mouthy on a phone - different face to face - and you will know exactly what is really going on (whether you like it or not).

I don't trust estate agents - they don't really care who they let into properties as long as they get their fee!  I have a few rental properties and thankfully have no problems because as soon as one arises I sort it out immediately.

They might even turn out to be the best tennants you will ever have - have an open mind going to meet them.  Be firm in whatever you decide to do.  Remember we all go through tough patches at times.

Best of Luck.


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## Smi1er (4 Sep 2006)

He isn't paying rent and you're not a registered charity.

Evict him.

Go and see a solicitor.


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## hhhhhhhhhh (4 Sep 2006)

rkeane said:


> I'm sure he does have squatters rights but you have rights too.  He only has squatters rights when he's in the house....


as far as i know you cannot claim squatters rights if you have ever paid rents, if you pay rent even once it voids your entitlements to squatters rights


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## hmmm (5 Sep 2006)

Whatever you do, do not "move in yourself" or change the locks, or it may be an expensive lesson in how to illegally evict someone.


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## liteweight (5 Sep 2006)

Have you approached the PRTB about this matter?


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## delgirl (5 Sep 2006)

You definitely need to contact the PRTB, it would have been a good idea when you served the 28 days notice on the tenant.

You cannot 'evict' him physically yourself either by changing the locks or ejecting him. Read some of the disputes on the PRTB website - this will give you some idea of the penalties involved should a landlord act illegally.

The Gardai will not get involved as it's a civil matter unless there is a risk of personal injury to you, i.e. the tenant attacks you when you arrive at the property.

Agree with NHG - go an talk to the tenant in a calm manner and find out first hand what the problem is. If you're afraid of him, take someone with you. Talk to the PRTB first to find out where you stand legally.

He has no squatters rights and if he's in trouble and can't pay the rent, perhaps he should seek assistance from Social Welfare.


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## corco2000 (5 Sep 2006)

Thank you all for your helpfull advise. He is already being assisted by Social Welfare and its the difference he is not paying. I contacted him this am and listened to what he said. He said he has secured a place for the end of Sep. and practically begged me to let him stay,different tune than what he had yesterday with Estate A.I agreed to save me legal and financial hassle. Im writting up another agreement he has to sign to say I am extendening his notice. I contacted the Social W they confirmed that he was in contact about another address so at least I know he wasnt telling fibs about another residence.Lesson learnt here agian.
Thanks all again.


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## gearoidmm (5 Sep 2006)

Depending on the length of time that he has been in the house, 28 days may not have been enough notice:



> Less than 6 months                 28 days
> 
> 6 or more months                    35 days
> but less than 1 year
> ...



Just to point out that your full obligations under the law may not have been met and he may have a case against you if it were to go to court


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## delgirl (5 Sep 2006)

gearoidmm said:
			
		

> Just to point out that your full obligations under the law may not have been met and he may have a case against you if it were to go to court


 
If the tenant breaches the tenancy agreement, by non-payment of rent in this case, the following applies:

_*"Shorter notice periods apply where termination for noncompliance with tenancy obligations (7 days for serious anti-social behaviour, 28 days for other breaches)".*_

Therefore the 28 day notice was correct.


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## gearoidmm (5 Sep 2006)

Sorry - completely right


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## liamwoods (7 Sep 2006)

hmmm said:


> Whatever you do, do not "move in yourself" or change the locks, or it may be an expensive lesson in how to illegally evict someone.



I would have. Get 3 mates and show him and his stuff the door. Do you really think he would have taken you to court?


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## liteweight (7 Sep 2006)

liamwoods said:


> I would have. Get 3 mates and show him and his stuff the door. Do you really think he would have taken you to court?



All he would have to do is call the gardai. Social Welfare would probably be involved too as they'd have nowhere to go.


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## delgirl (7 Sep 2006)

liamwoods said:


> I would have. Get 3 mates and show him and his stuff the door. Do you really think he would have taken you to court?


This is a totally irresponsible piece of advice.

The tenant doesn't have to take the landlord to court - all he has to do is lodge a complaint with the PRTB and, if the above mentioned method of removal was used, they will duly rule in his favour.  

The landlord will have to pay damages for emotional distress etc. and the cost of alternative rental accommodation for the tenant.

[broken link removed] - it's a very expensive, never mind illegal, course of action to take.


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## paulkeano (7 Sep 2006)

I had the same situation earlier this week. If the tenant moved in before September 2004, they have the right to 56 days notice in writing.
If you wrote them re. non-payment of rent and they still have not paid after a period of 14 days, this changes things.

I spoke to Threshold. They gave me very sound advice. I would advise that you give them a shout.

Cheers,
PK.


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## dad (8 Sep 2006)

Lodge dispute resolution with PRTB asap. It takes about 8-10 weeks before they will get to it.  If they find in your favour, they will impose an order for him to make good any monies he owes you. Do not taint your position by doing anything illegal.I would not under any circumstances change locks or get heavies involved.

Hopefully talking to him may help him decide that it is in his best interest to move on. I would be forceful but remain within in the law. Let him do the talking, find out why he wont move on. Have a read of some negotiation tips off the net.

Best of luck with it. I think the Residential tenancies act should be amended to capture the fact that people sometimes dont pay their rent. Lobby your politician.


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## Superman (8 Sep 2006)

dad said:


> I think the Residential tenancies act should be amended to capture the fact that people sometimes dont pay their rent. Lobby your politician.



Agreed: The act imposed a number of duties on Landlords without any commensurate rights.


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## hmmm (8 Sep 2006)

Superman said:


> Agreed: The act imposed a number of duties on Landlords without any commensurate rights.



Except of course for Part 3 which deals entirely with rent and in particular 3.23 which deals with rent arrears. Which part of the existing law would you like to see repeated in new legislation?


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## corco2000 (28 Sep 2006)

Hi all, a month on after appropriate notice, and as a gesture of goodwill extended this to another month looks like the Tennant will still refuse to move out this weekend. I dont wana get into too much detail here. I am in contact with a solicitor at present who has written up a reminder of notice and posted.
Basically what do I do after the 'extra' month is up and they are still in my property.I know solicitor will advise as of the best coarse but wuld like an opinion here.
Am I right in thinking that they are basically intruders in my home-which I am moving back into my self the weekend, and treat them as that? Change locks as mentioned here? I see the PRTB are SEEM very pro tennant on this matter judging by past rulings.Dont wana get this wrong.Any ideas please.?


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## delgirl (28 Sep 2006)

Have you approached the PRTB?  They are not pro-tenant, they act according to the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act and if you, as a landlord, have complied with the act in your dealings with your tenants, they will assist you.

Read through some of the other judgements - a lot of the rulings are in the landlords' favour.

Whatever you do, don't change the locks and evict them - it's illegal and will cost you dearly if they know their rights.


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## corco2000 (28 Sep 2006)

''Whatever you do, don't change the locks and evict them - it's illegal and will cost you dearly if they know their rights''

Is this defo illegal? I have followed everything by the book in terms of agreement. I want this sorted asap not 10weeks down the line.

I need to move back in myself on the weekend.


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## hmmm (29 Sep 2006)

corco2000 said:


> Am I right in thinking that they are basically intruders in my home-which I am moving back into my self the weekend, and treat them as that? Change locks as mentioned here? I see the PRTB are SEEM very pro tennant on this matter judging by past rulings.Dont wana get this wrong.Any ideas please.?



If you're in need of legal advice you should be talking to your solicitor rather than relying on any advice myself or anyone else here is giving you. They are not "intruders in my home", they are tenants of a property you rented out. You have no rights to change locks and illegally evict them. I have no idea how you expect to move back in legally whilst the tenant is still in place. When you became a landlord you were offering a service to a customer, not doing someone a favour by letting them kip on your couch.


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## delgirl (29 Sep 2006)

corco2000 said:


> ''Whatever you do, don't change the locks and evict them - it's illegal and will cost you dearly if they know their rights''
> 
> Is this defo illegal? I have followed everything by the book in terms of agreement. I want this sorted asap not 10weeks down the line.
> 
> I need to move back in myself on the weekend.


It's very difficult to get a tenant to move out when they don't want to.  I had a case where it took 6 months to evict tenants who had stopped paying rent - it eventually went to court and only when the balliffs arrived, did they move.

It shouldn't take that long these days with the PRTB - you still haven't said if you've contacted them and what they're doing to assist.


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## dad (29 Sep 2006)

lodge a dispute resolution as soon as possible with the PRTB, dont keep postponing it. Detail all the facts and document them for the PRTB. DR form is on their site. Call them first, hours open 10-12.30 due to a huge backlog. Hence, lodge DR form asap. Cost is €25 and much cheaper than a solicitor. I am involved in a case at the moment. Once its resolved, I will post details and the outcome, wont do so now in case I prejudice it somehow.

Nowhere in the law does it deal with people overstaying or not paying rent when they refuse to move on, you have to go through this process to remove them from your property.

best of luck


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## 911 (10 Oct 2006)

Any update ?


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## tosullivan (10 Oct 2006)

delgirl said:


> If the tenant breaches the tenancy agreement, by non-payment of rent in this case, the following applies:
> 
> _*"Shorter notice periods apply where termination for noncompliance with tenancy obligations (7 days for serious anti-social behaviour, 28 days for other breaches)".*_
> 
> Therefore the 28 day notice was correct.


I would be of the opinion that serious anti-social behaviour would be in the same ball park as not paying the rent.

What did the social welfare say?  I had same problem recently and they said they would stop all their payments until it was sorted out.  They should have done this for you.


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## corco2000 (10 Oct 2006)

Well its very complicated. Basically, Im taking the softly approach with him, talking with him to resolve it as peacefully as possible.He has done the paper work for another place (supposedly) but has to collect the keys end of the week. If not I am going to lodge a dispute with PRTB. I have been in contact with a solicitor- to get a court order to kick him out will cost 6-10k and two years appearently? So thats not an option. There is alot more to it that I'll post back here after the situation is resolved. Bottom line Ive learned that in this situation Landlords have zero rights and Tenant has everything on there side basically.


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## tosullivan (10 Oct 2006)

its only their word that they say they are moving...maybe they are not and stringing you along.  First things first, the SW should be stopping their money if they get a complaint from a landlord.
secondly, you are better calling into the PRTB in Ranelagh if you can...I tried calling them the last 2 weeks and no chance getting through.  Even went down the email route for a few days and still wasn't getting the answers I wanted.
Finally, got off my ar$e and drove in on spec and had a meeting with one of their staff.

My tenant moved out at the weekend, but didn't pay the last months rent and the deposit just covered that, leaving me nothing to pay for the bad condition the house was left in.  I am in the process of filing an application for Dispute Resolution to see if they can obtain some money from them to pay for the damages.

They seem to be fair in there...after all its the landlords now who are lining their pockets, so the last thing they want to do is start pi$$ing a lot of them off and telling them they haven't a leg to stand on when disputes like these arise.  I found them very fair and honest with me which gave me encouragement.

Its frustrating to be in the situation you are in, and all you want to do is change the locks, but try to go down the legal route first.

Best of luck


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## corco2000 (10 Oct 2006)

Thanks for advise and recomendation tosullivan. Your right, after Thursdya thats the next step. I dont wana cancel SW payment as thats the only money im getting at the moment. I have spoken to them regrding the matter. After T is out I have some info that they might be interested regarding T.
All I want to do is change the lock and F them out is right but I be in worse situation then.Just have to remain frustrated,annoyed and bitter for now.
I have emailed PRTB and they responded the next day.


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## 911 (11 Oct 2006)

If the utiliy bills are in your name the you can threaten to cut the gas/ESB off. Would get yourself in trouble if you do cut them off but you can threaten anyway. If the utility bills are in the tenants name and are in arrears make sure you wont gat caught for these arrears.


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## corco2000 (11 Oct 2006)

I have contacted GAS and ELEC. Gas has already been turned off for non payment and EBS have not yet turned off, although only 30euro has only been paid in 12months.
Both accounts are not in MY name so when I move back in will not affect me. Although will be a bit of hassle as both will need proof that house has been rented out- fax a lease agreement.
Just a little more hassle again.
I was tempted to turn off Elec outside myself!


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## DaRoons (5 Nov 2021)

corco2000 said:


> Estate agent called him again seems bit cheeky saying I can sue him if he likes etc and that he has squatters rights. Id have no guarentees that he will move out the end of Sep.He siad I can keep entire security desposit if I let him stay.Confused. Im gona think about it and call him myself later.


To claim squatters rights he’d need to have continuous possession of the property for a period of 12 years.


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## jpd (5 Nov 2021)

As you have replied to a 15 year old topic, I presume the tenant now has achieved possession


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## Frank (14 Nov 2021)

Interested to see how this goes 

RTB are not there for Ladlords 
All the susgestions of changing locks birng big mates cut off anything will play in to tenants hands. 
Be careful 
Make sure everything you do is full y in line with RTB rules. 

Best of luck hope this gets sorted soon


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## Gordon Gekko (14 Nov 2021)

I’m not suggesting this as a course of action but I did laugh when I heard it.

A friend of a friend had serious problems with a tenant. The kind of problems where the PRTB aren’t involved. Non payment of rent, criminal behaviour, etc.

The guy engaged a security consultant who took away all of the doors, external and internal. The guys were gone pretty quickly after that. Very tricky to use the loo or sleep soundly with no doors!


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## deanpark (15 Nov 2021)

Taking the roof and external brickwork away works a treat too.


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