# Issues with replacement boundary fence



## marhurd (25 Aug 2011)

I replaced my old boundary fence in the back garden which had begun to rot with a superior quality 'Colourfence' which a landscaper installed.   Next thing I received three registered letters from Dublin City Council, each of which contained a 'Warning Letter under Section 127' from the Planning Enforcement Manager, informing me that 'the boundary wall has been raised to 9ft without planning permission'.  The new fence is of a similiar height to the old one which was in situ for 15 years with no objection. It was quite expensive and I had no idea there would be any problem with it.  Any advice would be welcome.


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## onq (25 Aug 2011)

The three letters seem like overkill if they all arrived at once.
You could argue that it shows how little the planners have to occupy  their time these days but Dublin City Council are sticklers for detail.

Did the original fence have permission?
If so I would be surprised to hear that replacing a permitted fence due to wear and tear with one that complies with the original planning permission would attract enforcement action.
In some cases this may depends on the planners interpretation of the law.

If the original fence did not have permission I understand that, while it may have been exempt from planning enforcement action after 7 years, the new fence would have no permission on which to rely.
As it exceeds the 2.0M exempted development height limit by approximately 700mm it would not be considered to be exempted development.

It is possible you will be required to obtain permission for the new fence, or reduce its height to 2.0M.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

           All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                  relied                      upon                                                                                                                               as   a                 defence       or                       support    -            in               and       of                           itself     -                                 should                                 legal                               action                      be                                taken.
           Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                           advise        in                                                                                                                                      Real          Life          with                   rights         to                      inspect             and                         issue                              reports               on                    the                                              matters              at                                hand.


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## Leo (26 Aug 2011)

Another consideration, it's not clear from your post whether this fence was on, or completely within the boundary and on your property. 

Obviously some of your neighbours aren't happy with the new fence.


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## hastalavista (26 Aug 2011)

marhurd said:


> I replaced my old boundary fence in the back garden which had begun to rot with a superior quality 'Colourfence' which a landscaper installed.   Next thing I received three registered letters from Dublin City Council, each of which contained a 'Warning Letter under Section 127' from the Planning Enforcement Manager, informing me *that 'the boundary wall has been raised to 9ft without planning permission'*.  The new fence is of a similiar height to the old one which was in situ for 15 years with no objection. It was quite expensive and I had no idea there would be any problem with it.  Any advice would be welcome.



As stated 2m is your max without PP so you are out of order, no doubt about that.
old one irrelevant now as its gone and with it any PP or 7 year rule exemption.

You can apply for retention, whether you get it depends.

Who decided on the height? Landscaper should have known


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## onq (26 Aug 2011)

Hi Marhurd,

I was investigating the exempted development regulations again today on another matter - so far I haven't found what I wanted but I found this instead which seems directly relevant to your situation.
This defines the issue of fencing and whether you can replace it to the existing height or not under the exempted development regulations - you can, but in no case can this exceed 2.0 metres.
Its not crystal clear as to whether you can replace it higher if you had permission, but the 3 letters suggest that either you don't have permission or the planner is taking a negative view.
The mere fact that the original fence was higher than 2.0 M does not - in and of itself - appear to confer the right to replace the fence to that height without a prior permission.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

           All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                   relied                      upon                                                                                                                                 as   a                 defence       or                        support    -            in               and        of                           itself     -                                  should                                 legal                                action                      be                                 taken.
           Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                            advise        in                                                                                                                                        Real          Life          with                    rights         to                      inspect              and                         issue                              reports                on                    the                                               matters              at                                hand.         

=================================

From:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html

SCHEDULE 2​ _Article 6_​ Part 1​ _Exempted Development — General_


 Column 1​ Description of Development​

Development withing the curtilage of a house

CLASS 11

 The construction, erection, lowering, repair or replacement, other than within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of —
   (a)    any fence (not being a hoarding or sheet metal fence), or
   (b)    any wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.


Column 2​ Conditions and Limitations
​ 1. The height of any new structure *shall not exceed 1.2 metres or the  height of the structure being replaced*, whichever is the greater, *and in  any event shall not exceed 2 metres*.
   2. Every wall, other than a dry or natural stone wall, constructed or  erected bounding a road shall be capped and the face of any wall of  concrete or concrete blocks (other than blocks of a decorative finish)  which will be visible from any road, path or public area, including a  public open space, shall be rendered or plastered.


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## marhurd (26 Aug 2011)

Thanks for info. I agree the Planners must have little to do these days!   The original fence did not have permission, didn't think it was needed as trellis/fence was used for climbing plants to cover an ugly brick wall.


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## onq (26 Aug 2011)

I've seen a lot of these "vertical extensions" to walls, with people making the argument that they aren't "permanent structures" or their "just trellis" and hiking the effective height of the wall without permission. This really annoys some neighbours, but they offer payback when the owner tries to replace to the extended height.

The flip side is you could have planted the dreaded semi-mature Leylandii (not that I'm even remotely suggesting you do so) and it would be 3.0 M high in no time!


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

           All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                   relied                      upon                                                                                                                                 as   a                 defence       or                        support    -            in               and        of                           itself     -                                  should                                 legal                                action                      be                                 taken.
           Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                            advise        in                                                                                                                                        Real          Life          with                    rights         to                      inspect              and                         issue                              reports                on                    the                                               matters              at                                hand.


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## marhurd (26 Aug 2011)

Thanks again for all your replies.  The fence is on the boundary wall.  Was not aware till now about the 2m rule and my landscaper must not have heard of it either.   Anyone know what's involved and how much it would cost to apply for retention now?  Never met neighbour who complained as the house is unoccupied for almost two years due to the death of previous owner.


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## onq (26 Aug 2011)

Given the height restrictions noted above and the lack of a permission, the matter may not be a straightforward as a simple retention application - the norm in residential areas is 2.0 metres, no more
You should be able to find someone to negotiate with the neighbours,  planners and lodge the application for around €1,500 or so, depending  on the amount of time and information required.

If you search you'll find someone who is not liable or registered for VAT or has de-registered, which means you don't get hit for an extra percentage.
Just remember that even a successful negotiation can be observed upon by someone else and could be appealed and then refused.

Try to find some photographs of the original boundary treatment that gives a clear impression of the height as well.
Perhaps your landscaper may have something on file that gives an indication of the previous height.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

           All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                    relied                      upon                                                                                                                                   as   a                 defence        or                        support    -            in               and         of                           itself     -                                   should                                 legal                                 action                      be                                  taken.
           Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                             advise        in                                                                                                                                          Real          Life          with                     rights         to                      inspect               and                         issue                               reports                on                    the                                                matters              at                                 hand.


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