# Disabling self-closing mechanism on self-closing doors



## CreNaCille (30 Aug 2007)

I want to stop my self-closing doors from closing.  They have a chain mechanism in the door which pulls them closed once opened.

Does anyone know what the best way of disabling this chain mechanism is?


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## HighFlier (30 Aug 2007)

If you live in an apartment block self closing doors are required by the building regulations for fire prevention. I believe you are not supposed to disable them.


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## Buddyboy (30 Aug 2007)

If these are doors in your house, then they are fire doors that are ment to remain closed.

By remaining closed they give the occupants of the bedrooms valuable time to escape/stay clear of smoke in the event of a fire.

If these doors are open during a fire then the (sleeping) occupants may be overcome with smoke before anybody has a chance to wake them.

My opinion, you would be putting lives at risk by disabling the mechanism.  It is there for a reason.

Others with more knowledge (I believe there is a poster here who is involved in fire safety) will add to this.


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## paddyodoors (30 Aug 2007)

required by building regs....Bugga.....Maybe I shouldn't have whacked mine off with a club hammer so.....although not an issue unless I sell or rent I guess

FYI the chain broke at the hinge and the weight just falls into door

Now anyone know how much to replace about 8 doors/refit chain mechanism?

Paddy


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

are they embedded into the door and frame? they are a real nuisance and as far as i am concerned dangerous. its very easy to catch your hand on the door. You can release the fixing from the door but you need to be careful as they spring is very stong and you will neeed to wedge it open with a screwdriver. there is talk of the of the regs been relaxed on these type of closers


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

in what context is this self closing door located.....

let me give you a worst case scenario.....

fire breaks out,.... intergrity of the fire safety of the building diminished becaue 'someone' interferred with a self closing door,..... spread of fire doesnt give persons enough time (or ability) to escape,.... people die,..... 'someone' identified to police and charged with neglegence causing death.....


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## cinders (30 Aug 2007)

we have self-closing doors in our apt but there isn't a chain. when we moved in the builder showed us how to adjust the "hinge-thingy" (I think thats the technical term!!  ) using an allen key. We didn't disable the self-closing just made it a bit slower so the doors don't slam shut on you. the hinges on our doors are something like this (couldn't find the exact same) - http://www.hooverfence.com/ornamental/hardware/nw093.htm


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

Syd,
That is a worse case senario but most people i know have taken that chance rather than have perko closers slamming shut the door, causing cracks to walls and loosing the tops of their fingers


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

well then they should replace the mechanism with one that doesnt slam. its no excuse for tampering with their integrity....


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

have you ever tried adjusting perko closers?


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

for whats its worth i found this link, the article is half down the page
[broken link removed]


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## TreeTiger (30 Aug 2007)

sydthebeat said:


> well then they should replace the mechanism with one that doesnt slam. its no excuse for tampering with their integrity....


Perhaps they should be designed so they don't slam in the first place? Personally I wouldn't have them in my house as I keep the internal doors open all day. However, I do close the doors at night and have 2 smoke alarms.

Part of the reason I leave the doors open in daytime is because I once caught a ring on my finger in a door handle as I was closing it. I ended up in hospital with a very unpleasant injury - the doctor told me I was lucky, other people had lost fingers this way!


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

why would you have self closing doors in a house????

they are only required in public and semi public buildings (apartment blocks) to aid the safe removal of people in case of fire..... and maintain the fire resistance of an element of structure


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## Leo (30 Aug 2007)

These adjustable [broken link removed] might be an alternative to the guillotine... Perkos...
Leo


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## ang1170 (30 Aug 2007)

sydthebeat said:


> why would you have self closing doors in a house????
> 
> they are only required in public and semi public buildings (apartment blocks) to aid the safe removal of people in case of fire..... and maintain the fire resistance of an element of structure


 
Not true: required in some cases (e.g. if house has three stories).

I can understand someone wanting to adjust them, to ensure doors don't slam etc., but I find anyone wanting to disable them completely as truely misguided. 

Building regs are there for a reason: in this case to save lives.

A bit late to change your mind on this when you've been found burnt to a crisp......


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

they were/are in place in almost all new apartments internally. By all means they should be left on teh front door but there is no need for them on the internal doors to a single floor apartment


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

ludermor said:


> they were/are in place in almost all new apartments internally. By all means they should be left on teh front door but there is no need for them on the internal doors to a single floor apartment


 
i can think of situation where they ARE needed.....

thankfully its not up to the occupier to determine their necessity.... its up to the fire safety certification........


and thanks for the correction ang1170..... forgot about that situation....


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

so you can think of situations where they are needed, have you an opinion when they are used throughout an apartment, and have you ever tried to adjust a perko closer


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

ludermor said:


> 1. so you can think of situations where they are needed,
> 
> 2. have you an opinion when they are used throughout an apartment,
> 
> 3. and have you ever tried to adjust a perko closer


 
1. yes

2. if they are required to protect the occupanys in case of a fire then, i agree and understand their necessity

3. no. the OP wants to remove the self closing.. its this i have an issue with... not any augmentation of it...


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

many public building have elctrically operated self closing doors.... these would work fine in domestic and apartment situation (ie come into operation at the detection of a fire)...... but of course these are more expensive...

this thread is simply a result of a builder using the cheapest lowest tech installation..... if they are such a pain why not lobby to get them outlawed....


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## ludermor (30 Aug 2007)

sydthebeat said:


> many public building have elctrically operated self closing doors.... these would work fine in domestic and apartment situation (ie come into operation at the detection of a fire)...... but of course these are more expensive...
> 
> this thread is simply a result of a builder using the cheapest lowest tech installation..... if they are such a pain why not lobby to get them outlawed....


 
Its not feasible or necessary to use elecro magnetic closers internally in apartments. If you read the article in the link below you will see the the english regs are being relaxed for the need of these closers for internal doors. There is no question of closers being removed for 1 hour doors or external doors.


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## ang1170 (30 Aug 2007)

ludermor said:


> By all means they should be left on teh front door but there is no need for them on the internal doors to a single floor apartment


 
And what type of expertise brings you to this conclusion?


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## ludermor (31 Aug 2007)

"The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is minded to remove the need for self-closing devices within
dwellings. This is because they can present a hazard to children; they can
interfere with the day-to-day convenience of the occupants and many of
our stakeholders tell us they are often disabled soon after occupation. The
fire safety benefits of closing doors, particularly at night, remain and it is
proposed to reinforce this message through national and local Community
Fire Safety programmes (see www.firekills.gov.uk) and other fire safety
initiatives. We would therefore particularly welcome consultees’ views on this particular proposal."
Is that good enough level of expertise?

That is taken from the offical government document in the UK, which will more than likely come into effect here as well. I work for a builder and in the majority of cases where we have fitted these closers the owners have them removed. 
Please note i am not talking about overhead closers , just the ones with the chain. To be honest i have never heard anyone stand up for these devices ever before.


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## Leo (31 Aug 2007)

Folks, all this isn't exectly helping the OP. Could we keep it on-topic please?
Leo


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## sydthebeat (31 Aug 2007)

as ive stated above i have no problem with someone wanting to augment or replace a closer..... but the idea of removing it, or tampering with it so it looses its self closing mechanism.. i do have a problem with..

The OP has been advised of different installations he/she can use.... its the removal or breaking that is most definately not advised.


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## Brooklyn (1 Sep 2007)

I have these in my apartment. They are a total nuisance. I prefer having my doors opened most of the time, and prop them up anyway, so they are no use from a fire-prevention perspective. Also, my younger brother nearly lost a finger in one.

The mechanism can be disabled but it is _very_ easy to injure yourself doing this so I decided to invest in kick-down door stops instead.


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## CreNaCille (4 Sep 2007)

Thanks for all the replies.

For what it's worth I live in a 3 bed semi-d.  It's 3 storeys which probably explains why these self closing chains are present.  

They are such an annoyance that I just use door stops to keep frequently used doors open all the time.  Which is obviously the worst thing to do from a fire safety viewpoint.  But that's the behaviour that these closers are encouraging.

As others have mentioned, they are a safety concern especially if you have small children.

I will investigate replacing them with "sensible" closers which don't cause the doors to slam behind you.

But I'm still tempted to just remove them - then I will happily close the doors after me rather than propping them open all the time......


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## Bob the slob (4 Sep 2007)

I have the spring ones in my apartment and they are a pain, the bathroom one works properly and doesnt slam but the rest slam really hard.  Is there any way to adjust them?


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## tufty1 (5 Sep 2007)

Previous discussions regarding door closers in apartments have no relevance to your scenario. 

There is no question that a 3-storey townhouse must have the door closers to doors leading onto the stairs on the ground floor and first floor in place, this is to protect the occupants of the 2nd floor. This is a building regulation and fire safety certificate requirement. Discussions in the UK regarding removal of door closers are in respect of apartments only.

I would suggest you replace the chain door closer with the more traditional over head type, which are easily adjustable.


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## Bob the slob (5 Sep 2007)

I have them overhead ones, they are so ugly.


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## Manic (16 Jan 2008)

Thought I'd post here instead of starting a new thread

I live in a apartment and have removed the puller chains from my doors as they slam pretty badly. Probably selling up this year. Can anyone tell me if this will cause any problems when I go to sell??

I'm also considering replacing the doors to newer one's to try and improve the apartment will there be any issue if I dont put fire doors in? I know when we were buying there was nothing mentioned about fire doors

Any advice appreciated
cheers


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## ClubMan (16 Jan 2008)

Manic said:


> I live in a apartment and have removed the puller chains from my doors as they slam pretty badly. Probably selling up this year. Can anyone tell me if this will cause any problems when I go to sell??


Do you mean doors in your apartment area or in common areas (corridors etc.) leading to it?


> I'm also considering replacing the doors to newer one's to try and improve the apartment will there be any issue if I dont put fire doors in? I know when we were buying there was nothing mentioned about fire doors


Does your management lease say anything about making such changes?


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## Manic (16 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Do you mean doors in your apartment area or in common areas (corridors etc.) leading to it?



I mean internal doors in my own apartment (bedroom door, bathroom door etc.) not common area or corridors



ClubMan said:


> Does your management lease say anything about making such changes?



not sure I'd have to check


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