# Where did tracker mortgages come from and did RBS ever operate in Ireland?



## ClubMan (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*



			
				CCOVICH said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what drove the introduction of tracker rates, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the advent of lower interest rates and subsequent cirticism of lenders for not passing on rate decreases.


I thought that it was the arrival of _RBOS_?

I agree with most of what you say above. I just wanted to clarify the point that a tracker is a variable albeit one with a fixed margin.


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## nicky77 (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*

Clubman who are RBOS?? Is it Bank of Scotland Ireland you are referring to? They are not the same as RBS


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## ClubMan (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*



			
				nicky77 said:
			
		

> Clubman who are RBOS?? Is it Bank of Scotland Ireland you are referring to? They are not the same as RBS


Royal Bank of Scotland Ireland (_RBOS_) (now owners of the _Ulster Bank Group_) - not to be confused with [broken link removed] (_BOSI_). I think that _RBOS _were the first on the _Irish _market with tracker rate mortgages a few years back but perhaps I'm mistaken?


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## CCOVICH (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*

The Royal Bank of Scotland is generally referred to as RBS (and in their logo), even if RBoS is technially correct.

RBS don't offer products under the RBS banner in Ireland.


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## ClubMan (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*

Well they used to and I believe that they were (possibly joint) first on the _Irish _market with tracker mortgages. See [broken link removed]:


> Gavin cited Tracker Mortgages as an example of this. “Irish banks only
> introduced Tracker Mortgages to this market when Bank of Scotland and Royal
> Bank of Scotland offered them to Irish borrowers.”


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## CCOVICH (24 Feb 2006)

*Re: Confused about mortgage rates*

I'm open to correction (I won't take the article quoted as proof!), but I don't believe that RBS ever operated under the RBS banner in Ireland. Maybe their subsidiary (Ulster Bank) were one of the first to offer trackers after the takeover of Natwest by RBS?

Anyway, this has gone far too far away from the original topic!


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## Glenbhoy (24 Feb 2006)

Agree with Clubman - 90% certain that RBS were here under their own banner (don't think they offered any srvices bar mortgages).


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## Humpback (24 Feb 2006)

I'm with CCOVICH. RBS have never offered commercial products in Ireland. They do have (or at least did have) offices here where they did IT processing for their UK branches, but were never a commercial entity here.


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## CCOVICH (24 Feb 2006)

Does anyone have, or have they ever had a _RBS_ mortgage?


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## Protocol (24 Feb 2006)

Maybe 5 or 10 year ago, Bank of Scotland bought the ICC bank, and so entered the merchant banking business in Ireland.

They also offered mortgages by *telephone*.  They offered good rates, and so shook up the Irish mortgage market.  As a result, the domestic banks responded, and rates fell, and margins got tighter.

This year, after buying the ESB branch network, they are rolling out their new network of branches, and have launched more products, and new mortgages.

Totally separately, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) acquired NatWest, and so took over the Ulster Bank.  They since bought First Active. RBS have never sold mortgages here under the parent company name, they sell them through UB and FA.


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## jem (24 Feb 2006)

Protocol said:
			
		

> Maybe 5 or 10 year ago, Bank of Scotland bought the ICC bank, and so entered the merchant banking business in Ireland.
> 
> They also offered mortgages by *telephone*. They offered good rates, and so shook up the Irish mortgage market. As a result, the domestic banks responded, and rates fell, and margins got tighter.
> 
> ...


 
cORERECT & RIGHT


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## ClubMan (24 Feb 2006)

Fair enough. I guess I was mistaken so.

So who offered the first tracker mortgage in _Ireland_?


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## soy (24 Feb 2006)

Bank of Scotland


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## Marion (25 Feb 2006)

Bank of Scotland introduced the tracker in 1999. They only offered it to those with <60% LTV and they gave £500 towards the cost of legal fees. They were accused of "cherry picking" the market at the time. 

Marion


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## CCOVICH (25 Feb 2006)

Marion said:
			
		

> They were accused of "cherry picking" the market at the time.



And what on earth is wrong with that?  It's not as if they have an obligation to offer mortgages to everyone.


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## ClubMan (25 Feb 2006)

Thanks. Guess I was mixing up my _Scottish _banks so.


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## Marion (26 Feb 2006)

> And what on earth is wrong with that?



I'm not sure if you would like me to reply or if it is a rhetorical question. But, I can't see how _I_ represented that there was something "wrong" with the activities of BoS at the time they introduced the tracker.

I included the statement to reflect the critical views (in the media) _at the time_ the tracker was introduced. Obviously, the arrival of BoS onto the Irish mortgage market hurt banks and lending institutions. Questions were raised about its "commitment" to the market because of its "cherry picking".

BoS arrived at a time when the Celtic Tiger was in full swing and many people who had purchased their homes prior to it were in a position to opt for the tracker. 

This included those who had benefited enormously in the immediate 2 years prior to its appearance on the Irish mortgage scene. Mortgage holders had built up huge equity in their homes and their LTVs were, consequently, low. In a 2-year period, house prices had increased in value by 150% - 200%. 

The market was ripe for an innovative player. BoS shook up the mortgage market in Ireland.

I switched to BoS almost immediately after it introduced the tracker. 

Marion


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## CCOVICH (26 Feb 2006)

Marion said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if you would like me to reply or if it is a rhetorical question. But, I can't see how _I_ represented that there was something "wrong" with the activities of BoS at the time they introduced the tracker.


It was more of a rhetorical question, I assumed that you were referring to media critcism of BoS at that time.


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