# Put advert of my property for sale in letter boxes?



## kellyr4 (21 Nov 2007)

I like many in this climate am struggling to sell my property. The 2 bed apartment is on the market since May 07. The EA selling it is one of the largest EA company's in the country.

I have gradually dropped € 30 k off the initial asking price since it went on the market but am not getting anybody to bite. 

I am growing increasingly frustrated with the EA. He always has an excuse and then tells me about the other properties that he has sold each week. When the property went on the market i got "people are waiting for news on stamp duty", then "market goes quiet during the summer it will pick up in the Autumn" and now im getting "people are holding off till after xmas and the budget"

[_ Please don't give details of your property as it could be misinterpreted as advertising. Brendan _]
Anyway I am trying to be proactive in selling this property. I have thought about printing a few 100 or even a few 1000 copies of the advertisement and distributing them into peoples letter boxes. I would delete all of the EA's logos and contact details and put my own name on them.

Is this a good or bad idea? Could it further de-value my property? The way I look at it, the more people that know about the better. All I need is one person to make me a decent offer.


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## my2leftfeet (21 Nov 2007)

I can't see how it could be a 'bad' idea.  A member of my own family bought a house this way i.e. they leaflet dropped in the area they were interested in.
Word of caution though - if you were successful in selling you would want to be certain that the estate agent cannot pursue you for fees.


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## ubiquitous (21 Nov 2007)

I don't see the logic in it. People resent junk mail and in general treat it with contempt, unless it offers something spectacular. Unless you do tens of thousands of leaflet drops its impossible to cover anything but a tiny fraction of your target market. Still, if you're desperate...


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## Satanta (21 Nov 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Unless you do tens of thousands of leaflet drops its impossible to cover anything but a tiny fraction of your target market. Still, if you're desperate...


Tend to agree with the above. 

Those people who make up your target market, those looking to purchase a property, will be checking myhome.ie and daft.ie on a near daily basis. 

The real issues to deal with are the current market (many potential buyers holding off due to uncertainty in the future of the market), the price (are similiar properties in the area selling... are they lower priced... etc.), the property itself (any steps which can be taken to improve its value or desirability). I don't see the problem being the properties exposure to a wider market.

If you do feel you need exposure to more potential buyers, should you look at switching/getting another EA on board.


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## kellyr4 (21 Nov 2007)

I know it would be a huge task to cover a significant section of the population of Dublin but I just want to increase awareness of the property for sale. It has been on myhome.ie and the EA's website for 6 months now. Ive had approx 10 viewings but not one offer.

Im trying to think of other ways to increase its chance of selling. Current asking price is € 340,000 (originally € 370,000) and id be willing to accept offers over € 320,000. Cosmetically there is nothing I can do to make the property look better. Its only 2 years old and spotless.

Any ideas would be welcome


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## JohnBoy (21 Nov 2007)

Lower the price until you get an offer? Your appt. probably looks as good as it is ever going to and you are even throwing in the furniture. As was mentioned above, anyone who is looking for a similar property has probably already viewed your place online. The market has slowed and buyers find themselves faced with a lot of supply - the only to differentiate your property would be via the asking price.


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## Satanta (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> I know it would be a huge task to cover a significant section of the population of Dublin but I just want to increase awareness of the property for sale.


Personally, I don't believe the leaflet drop would catch enough potential buyers to make it worth the time/cost/effort (not to mention the spam etc comments already raised), but that is down to a personal decision.

As for what you can do.

TBH, the biggest problem at the moment is simply a lack of confidence in the market. Why would people buy now if they think they might get it cheaper in six months time? There isn't much you can do to change that.

The current listing on myhome/EA websites....
Does it have lots of pictures? Do the pics do it justice? (Have they been taken to show the apartment in the best possible light e.g. fine sunny day, apartment immaculatly clean etc.) Does the description portray the property in the best light possible to attract possible buyers?

Apart from a few of these asthetic things, the only other factor you have to attract buyers is the price. How flexible you're willing to go may be the deciding factor on whether it sells or not.


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## thomasmc01 (21 Nov 2007)

Be careful about using the EA brochure and just hiding his logo etc..it is still their brochure


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## bacchus (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> It has been on myhome.ie and the EA's website for 6 months now.



Put it on daft.ie and see (check my2leftfeet comment about fees).

Why do you think the EA is responsible for the fact that it does not sell? or how a new EA would help? are they not stuck trying to sell at the price you have instructed him/her to sell?

In simple term, price is the issue IMO....(almost) everything sells at the right price.


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## IFT (21 Nov 2007)

I thought u sold it ?

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=394131&postcount=1

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=395271&postcount=1


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## Flax (21 Nov 2007)

Would it be worth it instead putting an advert on a website?

For example, a banner on boards.ie or something like that.


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## kellyr4 (21 Nov 2007)

I am cringing at my naievety in that post last April just before I put the property on the market. I was just being hypothetical and assuming that I would get offered the original asking price, what I was going to do with the money.

Unfortunately the reality is that the property has been on the market for 6 months without an offer....................those dreams of moving to the sunshine are a distant memory


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## Flax (21 Nov 2007)

How much did you buy the property for?

EDIT: I have just seen you bought it for €250k.

Instead of being so greedy (i.e. originally wanting a profit of 120k after two years, and now only wanting a profit of 90k) why don't you significantly drop your asking price?

The problem really is that you are trying to make as much money as possible.


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## pc7 (21 Nov 2007)

if you bought it for 250 would you not put it up at 280 and try generate interest that way, you'd still walk away with 30 grand, maybe looking for 320 (making 70 grand) is not what its worth? What are other apartments going for around you?


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## kellyr4 (21 Nov 2007)

I dont think its about greed, its about being able to afford to trade up to a house. 

Other apartments in the development are for sale for between 360 and 380 k. So I am undercutting them all. 

There is a new phase to the development currently being built which may turn people off my "old phase" property. The new 2 beds are going for 380+


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## pc7 (21 Nov 2007)

hi kellyr4 sorry wasn't trying to imply greed just that if you really want to shift it there may be a lower price someone will be willing to pay. In relation to trading up people selling will be in the same boat as you and the value will be less. Went through this last year we settled for 50 grand less than we thought we'd sell our house for (it was hard to do at the time) but we ended up buying our ideal house for at least 50 grand less than we felt it was worth so it balanced out.


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## JohnBoy (21 Nov 2007)

Price, price, price. That is all that matters when you are selling what is in effect a reasonably standardised product.


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## IFT (21 Nov 2007)

Best and hardest advice I can give you would be to try and sell if for what you can get and walk away with some profit. I say that given the location of your property and the fact that it is an apartment.


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## rmelly (21 Nov 2007)

are the tenants still there, or did you chuck them out?


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## snuffle (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> I dont think its about greed, its about being able to afford to trade up to a house.
> 
> Other apartments in the development are for sale for between 360 and 380 k. So I am undercutting them all.
> 
> There is a new phase to the development currently being built which may turn people off my "old phase" property. The new 2 beds are going for 380+



Without wanting to sound harsh, this is the problem. Everyone putting their property up for sale is looking at what the neighbours are hoping to get, or what was achieved 6 months or a year ago, and refusing to budge much below what the general asking prices in the locale are. Hence most of the properties will remain on the market as no-one wants to budge downwards, even if it means they are still getting a profit, albeit a lesser one than originally anticipated. Buyers are unwilling to budge as they sense if they hold off a bit, they may get a property cheaper than was being asked 6 months or a year ago, once people start getting desperate to sell. Standoff ensues. Remember it's not about what what you WANT to get, ie the asking price, but what the property will actually sell for, ie what people are willing (or able) to offer.

If there are a number of other properties for sale in your development, the only way you will sell when you are in direct competition with all of them is to drop the price to make your property more attractive to buyers than all the others. 

Remember prices are dropping anyway, so you may still be able to trade up to a house which is falling in price, and even a profit of 30k after two years is nothing to be sneezed at, it's only been the past few years that houses were seen as a quick way to make an absolute killing due to the rising market, rather than the bricks and mortar they are. 

I'd avoid going down the leafletting route as most people will see it as junk mail or spam and may be turned off your property, and it would be a lot of work for such a small chance that it might generate some interest.


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## rmelly (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> I dont think its about greed, its about being able to afford to trade up to a house.
> 
> Other apartments in the development are for sale for between 360 and 380 k. So I am undercutting them all.
> 
> There is a new phase to the development currently being built which may turn people off my "old phase" property. The new 2 beds are going for 380+


 
are they selling at this price?


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## Paulone (21 Nov 2007)

Kelly4r - you have instructed the EA to sell your place and it sounds like you'll be wanting a bit more from them.

From what you say, they sound like they're giving you excuses when you want some really good advice and support for your sale.

Having had a broad range of experiences with EAs, I'm a great believer in leaning heavily on them (having dealt with six of them in the sale of my place). Its not like they're giving their service for nothing, so make them do a bit more work for you.

It depends just how badly you need to sell. If you want above all to sell, then sit down with them at least once every four weeks and ask them for a progress report on who's enquiring about your place, what sort of buyers they are (i.e. FTBs, investors, whatever) and what they have done to follow-up/encourage them to view etc.

Ask the EA for a summary of what promotion of your place they have carried out (advertising / newspaper writeups etc.) and what they think they'll be able to do in the coming month

Ask the EA as well to tell you frankly what you can do for them, i.e. paint a room, change a carpet, drop another €5k, get rid of the ugly lamp in the corner - whatever it is. Ask for feedback after every viewing - it can be very useful to make the place as attractive as possible.

Finally, if after (say) three more months of this, change your agent or take it off the market for a while. nothing worse than seeing the same place coming up again and again on Myhome - with the price gradually falling.

I have to agree with the opinion of many of the other posters here that if the price is too high, then you're not going to get any takers. Try and make sure you're not overpitching by asking the EA to be completely frank about your asking price and do some research in the general area on other people's asking price - I'm guessing it might cause you to reduce a bit more to undercut them and achieve the sale?

Do you absolutely have to sell right now? In my case I did - I was unable for v.practical reasons to stay in the house I had bought so I'd no choice but to sell and dropped by a substantial percentage to sell - are you in this position?


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## LivLand (21 Nov 2007)

I don't think many people will be buying smaller appartments when they read this :

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1114/housing.html


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## Sherpa (21 Nov 2007)

pc7 said:


> if you bought it for 250 would you not put it up at 280 and try generate interest that way, you'd still walk away with 30 grand, maybe looking for 320 (making 70 grand) is not what its worth? What are other apartments going for around you?


 
You're forgetting the fact that he has (I presume) had to service the debt on the property for the last two years.  Even an interest-only mortgage will have cost the best part of 20k over two years, so buying at 250k and selling for 280k doesn't give you "profits" of 30k (and that's before you factor in the buying and selling costs).


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## pc7 (21 Nov 2007)

well you could look like you've been saving 20k and getting an extra 10k, if they want to sell 30k in the pocket after two years is better than nothing.


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## Steve D (21 Nov 2007)

Other appartments may be on sale for €380K to €360K but I bet none of them are selling at that price. In a falling market the only way to sell a property is to by a substantial price reduction, i.e, you may sell if you price it at something like €270 to €280K. If it still does not sell at this price you will have to either reuce it further.

In a falling market buyers are not willing to buy because they believe that they will be able to buy the property cheaper later. This type market psychology gathers its own momentum and drives prices futher downwards because nothing sells. If this continues you may be lucky to get your €250K back!


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## ang1170 (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> IOther apartments in the development are for sale for between 360 and 380 k. So I am undercutting them all.


 
That's the entire point: if you put it on the market for 320, yours will be the one that will sell, you'll still make a profit and you can take your time in trading up.

Are the neighbour's actually selling for what they're asking?

Alternatively, you can wait a few months, when chances you and your neighbours will all be trying to sell for 300....


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## Flax (21 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 said:


> I dont think its about greed, its about being able to afford to trade up to a house.


 
I think the reality is your apartment isn't worth anything near what you think it's worth, so you can't afford to trade up to the house you want.

I'm not trying to be harsh. I just don't think people who can't sell are getting it: your property is not worth the crazy money you think it is.


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## steph1 (21 Nov 2007)

I would forget about the leaflets as well - far too much leg work.  Another place that you might consider is advertising the property in the buy and sell.


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## Importer (21 Nov 2007)

I'm on the other end of this property spectrum.

I'm looking to purchase a house and I must say, I'd be skeptical about posting fliers in through letter boxes. On the plus side of course I would jump at a chance to negotiate a house purchase without having to deal with an estate agent but thats just a personal preference.

As a potential buyer I check through Daft and Myhome.ie almost every day. I know exactly what is on the market in my target area and I suspect most other people in my shoes do also. When a new property comes on the market, I check the price first and if this doesn't register on my value radar, I dont even look at the details.
There is no way I will purchase a house at the prices currently advertised. I am looking for at least 25% to 30% reduction, back down to levels that make sense relative to salary levels, interest rates and general affordability.

Contrary to all the EA spin, I am not waiting for the budget, I am not waiting for the new year, I am not waiting for any stamp duty news, I am not waiting for interest rates to drop - I am ready to purchase now with cash as soon as some sensible pricing returns to the market.

So yes I agree with all the other posters above. Its all down to price.
A token 5% or 10% will not be enough for me to purchase. This may take a number of years to play out but Im ready to wait.


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## bugler (22 Nov 2007)

*kellyr4:*

I live in the area, and if you drive down around Rathborne you'll see all you have to look forward to in the area is another 3/4/5 blocks of apartments being built. These certainly aren't going to help your cause. 

Bite the bullet, lower the price until you get offers.


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## deedee80 (22 Nov 2007)

Are you really desperate to sell?  If you are then I would put the property up for sale at 300k and if you get this wouldn't you be very lucky making 50k on the apartment in 2 years!  To put things into perspective, alot of people cannot sell now as they face negative equity.  For example, I bought an apartment start of 06 for 270, 2 months later second phase was up for sale, exact same apartments at 315 - 335 and these all sold out.  Alot of first timers with 100% mortgages (I was chatting to some as they queued over night - how things have changed.....)  Same apartments now selling at around 290, be thankful your not in that position.  When I sold my apartment i was desperate to sell, was with EA and put flyers up in shops (don't think that made any difference though).  Had a good few viewings but no offers.  Dropped the price to way below anything else in the estate (while still making a profit) and went sale agreed within 2 weeks.  At the time I felt a bit annoyed about having to drop the price so much to get a sale but when I look back now I think how lucky I was!


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Nov 2007)

Folks

Please don't use Askaboutmoney to advertise property for sale. 

I have deleted the references which identify the house.

Brendan


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## pc7 (22 Nov 2007)

kellyr4 just wondering have any of the posts (eg deedee80) made you think of reducing the price significantly?


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## kellyr4 (22 Nov 2007)

Im open to offers if thats what you mean


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## pc7 (22 Nov 2007)

sorry meant are you going to undercut further your local competition eg 300k asking price to get interest? or sit tight and see if they bargain with you?  Its an awful hard situation hope it works out for you.


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## ubiquitous (22 Nov 2007)

pc7 said:


> sorry meant are you going to undercut further your local competition eg 300k asking price to get interest? or sit tight and see if they bargain with you?  Its an awful hard situation hope it works out for you.



I think its unfair of you to put these questions to the OP given that their property has been already clearly identified.


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## pc7 (22 Nov 2007)

didn't mean it in an unfair way (I thought property link had been deleted), it was more that I had to do the same last year when selling it was a hard decision and I'm glad I did it. OP was looking for advise and everyone said the same thing reduce the price so wanted to know if she was going too.


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## Glenbhoy (22 Nov 2007)

Kelly, 
you say in one of your earlier posts that you'd accept 320K, I can't see the logic in not advertising at that price.
You also should remember that you have probably paid off a few euro of your mortgage, maybe 15 or 20K, so that it may only cost 230K odd to redeem your property when sold, that will be extra money to put towards your new house.

Alternatively, you may just have to bite the bullet and hold onto it, what's the worst that could happen?


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## Thomas22 (23 Nov 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> Alternatively, you may just have to bite the bullet and hold onto it, what's the worst that could happen?



 Might not be able to get €300k in a few more months


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## kellyr4 (23 Nov 2007)

The reason that I have my property advertised at 340 k and I would accept 320 k is because the EA has advised me that any offers I get will be up to 20k below the asking price. i.e if I had the asking price at 320 k id only get offers of 300 k. 

Yes I see all of your point that an offer of 300 k is better than no offer. However its not as simple as that. I have other debts as well as my mortgage to clear due to a failed business venture. 

I have done an exercise on all of the properties for sale in my development. There are 21 in total on myhome.ie  Of these 12 are 2 bed apartments. Mine is listed as the cheapest by 10 k .  The 2 beds for sale range from mine at 340k to 410 k.

Should this be enough to generate some interest?

My EA has warned me not lower the price further until the New Year when we will reaccess it.  

Is he worrying about his commission reducing as the price falls or is he acting in my best interests?


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## monkeyboy (23 Nov 2007)

lowering commission by 10k may only cost the EA 100 odd euro. Its not likely to be the reason why he wishes you not to lower yet as stated if it was dropped 50k or so he would get the guts of his commission handier so I feel he is acting in your best interest with this advice.

Think about it would you buy a house coming up to X mas or be out house hunting keenly in the cold and dark? 

All the other storie aside you have been given, this is a poor time of ANY year to be desperate to sell.


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## monkeyboy (23 Nov 2007)

Camry said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> An economist would be more likely to say that there is a state of excess supply. At the prevailing price demanded by suppliers, buyers are unwilling.
> 
> It means prices are too high for the market to clear (bring demand into line with supply)



Rising rents would not indicate excess supply, it indictaes people renting instead of buying and therefore prices too high rather tahn excess. A strong rental market would surely still indiucate a demand for accomodation.


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## Marie (23 Nov 2007)

...........or a strong rental market might indicate that people are choosing the comparatively cheap, care-free benefit of renting whilst keeping maximum flexibility in a declining economic environment.  In a downturn people choose to be property-free to meet eventualities such as migration to another part of the country to follow jobs, or immigration to another part of the world, to follow jobs.


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## shanegl (23 Nov 2007)

monkeyboy said:


> Rising rents would not indicate excess supply, it indictaes people renting instead of buying and therefore prices too high rather tahn excess. A strong rental market would surely still indiucate a demand for accomodation.



Rents are falling though according the the CSO.


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## LivLand (23 Nov 2007)

Suply and demand says excess supply would drive the price down, would it not ?


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## Thomas22 (24 Nov 2007)

[broken link removed]  



Look at the graph for the number of rental properties in the country. This combined that the fact that developers who have been unable to sell new developments are now turning themselves into BTL investors.

Excess supply again would indicate that this trend will halt any further increase in rents


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## MrKeane (24 Nov 2007)

If you paid 250K 2 years ago, then all things considered (interest rates, economy, oversupply etc.) , I see no reason why you should expect somebody else to pay you any more for it now. Surely the best thing to do is start at 250k and see what people are prepared to bid the property upto.

If it does not get close to what you want then you don't sell it.


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## iguana (25 Nov 2007)

MrKeane said:


> If you paid 250K 2 years ago, then all things considered (interest rates, economy, oversupply etc.) , I see no reason why you should expect somebody else to pay you any more for it now.



In fact anybody paying 2005 prices now would in fact be paying more every month than the OP was when he bought due to the IR rises.


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## Glenbhoy (28 Nov 2007)

SPC100 said:


> I don't disagree, but [SIZE=-1]I think illiquid market is a more appropriate description of the problem[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] the seller faces - a market in which there is little volume traded. This happens during all asset crashes.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=-1]People are afraid of this asset class at the moment, and are unsure of current valuations due to the illiquid market.[/SIZE]
> 
> ...


Yeah, volume has dropped by 50% since January in the second hand market, from 5200 units per month down to 2600 units per month.


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