# No notification of tracker rate reduction from UB



## irishpancake

Hi there

Just trying to find out if anyone on a UB tracker has in fact received a notification of the new rate.

I have had a tracker (ECB +0.95%) from them since 2004, and I always get these notifications, definitely when going up.

Payment due 31st.

Contacted them via web-site, but no answer.

I should get a reduction, right?


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## gally74

they said they are working through them, youll need to talk to them directly and if not happy lodge a complaint. the letters for them raising the rate were out within the week the last time.


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## irishpancake

gally74 said:


> they said they are working through them, youll need to talk to them directly and if not happy lodge a complaint. the letters for them raising the rate were out within the week the last time.


I have contacted them via web-site 3 days ago, but not the courtesy of a reply. 

Like you, I got notification of rises within a week, but not so when rates going south.

Should have jumped to NIB LTV when I had the chance.

Knowing UB, this will have to be dragged out of them kicking and screaming.


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## thespecialon

I got a letter from them last week saying new rate will be applied for November Payment in my case 28th...I am also on ECB + .95


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## Nutso

lt's the same with PTSB, we haven't received the new rate yet and when I rang yesterday, they said it would be in the first two weeks of November.  When I queried how they managed to put through the increases within a week, I was told they had 30 days within which the increase/decrease had to be put through and as long as they were within that timeframe, it was completely legal.  It's so annoying, just another way for the banks to screw us.


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## redo

You will be notified if the rate is going up in advance, so that you can make arrangements to have sufficient funds in the account.  It is not really necessary if the rate (mortgage amount) goes down


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## irishpancake

redo said:


> You will be notified if the rate is going up in advance, so that you can make arrangements to have sufficient funds in the account.  It is not really necessary if the rate (mortgage amount) goes down



Well, I've just been on to UB Mortgage Customer Care in the last 10 mins.

They say the new payment will be reflected in my payment due today/tomorrow?

They say I should have got a letter, as they have sent them out to all customers on trackers. 

They don't know why mine has not arrived, but they apologise, and will send me out a letter of apology, and the rate confirmation letter ASAP.

BTW, for those of you in a similar position with UB, they seem not to have the Mortgage Centre contact number included in the [broken link removed] on their web-site.

Obviously they don't believe that people with UB Mortgages will have any problems or queries 

But I have the number, from previous problems I have had with them.

It's 1890 252 304. 

Usual voice prompts, but you will fairly quickly get through to their customer care team. Make sure you get name of agent dealing with any complaint, and keep record of time and date.


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## NavanMan1

Hi, 

Just to add that I seem to be in the same boat as the rest of you. Just checked my Current Account online in the last few minutes and they are taking out the same amount tomorrow Nov03rd as they have done since the rate increase in mid July.

Have not received any letter from them regarding the reduction in the ECB rate in mid October, so like others here, I guess I will have to get on the phone to them tomorrow to receive the reduction I am due.

Does anybody know if its possible to get them to refund me the difference that they are taking for November ?


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## Nutso

NavanMan1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to add that I seem to be in the same boat as the rest of you. Just checked my Current Account online in the last few minutes and they are taking out the same amount tomorrow Nov03rd as they have done since the rate increase in mid July.
> 
> Have not received any letter from them regarding the reduction in the ECB rate in mid October, so like others here, I guess I will have to get on the phone to them tomorrow to receive the reduction I am due.
> 
> Does anybody know if its possible to get them to refund me the difference that they are taking for November ?


 
I asked that question of PTSB and was told no, because they have 30 days to reduce the rates, they don't have to repay any difference in interest.


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## LennyBriscoe

NavanMan1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to add that I seem to be in the same boat as the rest of you. Just checked my Current Account online in the last few minutes and they are taking out the same amount tomorrow Nov03rd as they have done since the rate increase in mid July.
> 
> Have not received any letter from them regarding the reduction in the ECB rate in mid October, so like others here, I guess I will have to get on the phone to them tomorrow to receive the reduction I am due.
> 
> Does anybody know if its possible to get them to refund me the difference that they are taking for November ?


 
Identical scenario as yourself NavanMan.

When rates were increased in July, the repayment was applied in August. However this time around they have not applied the change in the repayment in November.

Just off the phone from a customer care agent in UB - said they will investigate and get back to me within 48 hours.

So we ill see what happens! Not happy with this.


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## Luckycharm

A few of us have complained to UB - no they will not be giving you any more in Nov!! They are taking the Full 30 days they gave me this cock and bull about knowing about all the increases 6 weeks in advance and not the decrease. So when I mentioned alot of talk of another decrease they will not have this excuse but you can bet your life they will take another 30 days if it happens


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## Be Nice

Having exactly the same difficulty with UB.  Phoned them this morning to be put on a waiting list to speak to a direct advisor.  Have down loaded all the previous ECB increase rates and can show the applicable increase on the 1st of the month directly after ECB increase announced.  If I do not receive satisfaction from the advisor I will go to the ombudsman and the financial regulator.  BTW has anybody else experienced a lot of difficulties when dealing with UB in general?


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## di74

Rang UB last week and was informed that the letter was in the post re new interest rate and that it would be passed on immediately. Mortgage came out today and guess what???? yes no reduction. Have tried phoning today but no satisfaction, finding them very difficult to deal with. I have been banking with them for 15 years and have to say their customer service levels have dropped..... each time I phone my branch I automatically get branch support and never get a return call from my branch


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## keff

I rang them today too as mortgage debited today. 

I was told that their standard terms and conditions allow them 30 days to change rate. they also told me that the november payment is arrears for october so would never have gone down this month. They say I may get a letter in the next week, maybe.

I said that I really believed they were acting in bad faith by immediately applying increases but not decreases. The agent agreed!!


checked my file and bank statements re increases

13 june 2007- letter dated 18 june- increase july payment
9 july 2008-letter dated 14 july    -increase august payment
8 oct-no letter yet!


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## plant43

keff said:


> 13 june 2007- letter dated 18 june- increase july payment
> 9 july 2008-letter dated 14 july    -increase august payment
> 8 oct-no letter yet!




I checked my bank statement and the rate increase from July wasn't put on until the repayment in August. Conversely the October decrease isn't being put on until November, seems fair to me.


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## mollser

incorrect, the October decrease isn't being put on until DECEMBER - here in lies the problem...


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## plant43

mollser said:


> incorrect, the October decrease isn't being put on until DECEMBER - here in lies the problem...



UB have confirmed to me that my November 28th payment will be at the new rate.


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## irishpancake

plant43 said:


> I checked my bank statement and the rate increase from July wasn't put on until the repayment in August. Conversely the October decrease isn't being put on until November, seems fair to me.



How do you work that out 

July rate increase applied in the next mortgage payment, August.

October rate reduction will be applied in the December payment.

Rate increases have been applied in this fashion consistently by UB, i.e. always reflected in the next payment.

Apparently, rate reductions will be delayed until the second next payment, which is inconsistant with the rate increases.

How do you contend that this is fair, and consistant 

I have written to UB, seeking an explanation, also seeking back-dating of the rate increases consistant with their policy on this occasion.


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## igloo

This is also the case with AIB tracker.  I rang my branch (Eyre Sq, Galway) last Tuesday to inquire as I'd not received any written notice from them.  Was advised that the 'Finance' department was working on the changes and I'd hear back from them last Friday.   Alas, no response yet..


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## plant43

irishpancake said:


> Hoe do you work that out
> 
> July rate increase applied in the next mortgage payment, August.
> 
> October rate reduction will be applied in the December payment.
> 
> Rate increases have been applied in this fashion consistently by UB, i.e. always reflected in the next payment.
> 
> Apparently, rate reductions will be delayed until the second next payment, which is inconsistant with the rate increases.
> 
> How do you contend that this is fair, and consistant
> 
> I have written to UB, seeking an explanation, also seeking back-dating of the rate increases consistant with their policy on this occasion.



The ECB rate increase was on July 3rd, but my July payment was at the old rates, August at the new one.

The ECB decrease was on October 7th, but my October payment was at the old rates, November's will be at the new rate.

My payment date is the 28th.


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## irishpancake

plant43 said:


> UB have confirmed to me that my November 28th payment will be at the new rate.



Yeah, that will be your December payment, so why was your Oct 28/29th payment for November still at the old rate, following the rate reduction in October??


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## plant43

irishpancake said:


> Yeah, that will be your December payment, so why was your Oct 28/29th payment for November still at the old rate, following the rate reduction in October??



Payments are in arrears I thought?

Edit: You could also ask the question why was my July payment for August still at old rates, by your logic.


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## irishpancake

All I can do, as other people have done, is illustrate this with a real example, taken from my own Halifax Current Account:



> 30/06/2008	DIRECT DEBIT UB HOUSE MORTGAG UB/BF1/0000xxxxx	790.20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 09/07/2008             ECB Rate Increased    +0.25%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 31/07/2008	DIRECT DEBIT UB HOUSE MORTGAG UB/BF1/0000xxxxx	793.79
> 
> 30/09/2008	DIRECT DEBIT UB HOUSE MORTGAG UB/BF1/0000xxxxx	793.79
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 08/10/2008	ECB Rate Decreased    -0.50%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 31/10/2008	DIRECT DEBIT UB HOUSE MORTGAG UB/BF1/0000xxxxx	793.79
Click to expand...

So it can be seen that UB have taken the increasein the rate at the first available opportunity, but have failed to pass on a reduction until they absolutely have to.

No fair, be consistent, treat all rate changes in the same fashion.


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## NavanMan1

Hi All,
        Like a lot of you guys here, was on the phone to them this morning and got no satisfaction from the CS agent I was dealing with. I outlined my complaint as follows,

ECB increased rate on July09th, received letter informing me of increased repayment on July14th, increase implemented on my payment date of Aug01st.   Letter from bank received within 5 days of increase. Increase implemented within 23 days.

ECB reduce rate on Oct08th, have received no letter from bank on rate reduction after 26 days and counting !!! On Nov03rd, repayment amount taken out of my current account is still at old rate, 26 days after rate cut.

When I phoned up this morning, they said the rate cut would not be implemented until my December repayment on Dec01st which is 54 days after the ECB rate cut, which is well outside the 30 days time limit she told me they have to implement this.

I informed the CS agent that I wished to make a formal complaint on the matter and she replied that someone from their complaints department would get back to me within 48 hours.

Guess I just have to sit back and wait. 

Either Ulster Bank are operating a Tracker or not, it tracks increases alright but for reductions it looks like they are switching to the Variable mode.


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## Be Nice

Don't hold your breath watitng for a call back from the customer service team.  I had an issue with bank card lately when I was travelling, 4 times I called the bank and each time I was told I would get a piority call back.  They never called.  When you do speak to somebody in customer service make note of time of call, person you speak to and brief details of what  you spoke about. UB will deny having received a call from you previously. The best way to lodge a complaint in in writing, complaints received in writing seem to be taken a lot more seiously than those logged on the phone.


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## gally74

i lodged the complaint last week,  a girl rang me from the Complaints dept and sent a letter today they are looking into it,

however they are basically taking the full 30 days from the 8th of oct to acknowledge the increase so for a drop in oct, you wont see it untill the dec 1st payment,

im getting onto my local branch now again  to complain, out of basic fairness as  a customer. I will be putting it in writing.

the ombudsman is the next option see below form their website

*What happens if we can't reach agreement?*

 	The Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau acts independently of the  Bank and provides a free service as an impartial adjudicator of unresolved  customer concerns.
 	The Ombudsman can help with most financial complaints. However, there are some limitations on what the Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau can look into, and further information about this can be obtained from them directly.
 	If you wish to ask the Financial Services Ombudsman to review your concern you must do this within 15 days of the date of the Bank's final response letter.
 	The address to write to is:
 	Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau
3rd Floor
Lincoln House
Lincoln Place
Dublin 2
Lo-Call 1890 882090
 	Tel: 01 6620899
Fax: 01 6620890
 	Email: enquiries@financialombudsman.ie
Website : [broken link removed]


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## MikeL

keff said:


> checked my file and bank statements re increases
> 
> 13 june 2007- letter dated 18 june- increase july payment
> 9 july 2008-letter dated 14 july    -increase august payment
> 8 oct-no letter yet!



Same here. November payment (went through today) the same as October's. 
I will complain officially in writing. Not that anything will happen, but I just want it on record!


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## gally74

spoke to the branch today,

better to complain in writing to them


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## kilteragh

Same happened to me yesterday.

Is it best to write to the branch or to a more central address / head office?


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## MikeL

I wrote (well faxed) to the House Mortgages Office in Leopardstown; they have been sending me the recent rate increase letters. So for Dublin people at least, this is the address:

Paul Molumby
Head of Dublin Mortgage Centre
Ulster Bank Ireland Ltd
P.O. Box 9067
Block B, Central Park
Leopardstown
Dublin 18

Fax 01-294-4906


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## di74

Just sent a letter to the above address..... so annoyed about this...... have had a tracker since ECB rate was at 2% since 2004 and looked at each increase then (9 increases in total) and each one was passed on on the first of the following month..... letters to inform about the increase usually came out about 5/7 days after ECB rate change..... whats taking so long this time?????


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## Ceist Beag

Going to send a letter myself as well as we are in the same boat. Just curious, has anyone on a variable rate received the decrease straight away given that all the banks announced they would pass this decrease on to them straight away?


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## IrlJidel

plant43 said:


> The ECB rate increase was on July 3rd, but my July payment was at the old rates, August at the new one.
> 
> The ECB decrease was on October 7th, but my October payment was at the old rates, November's will be at the new rate.
> 
> My payment date is the 28th.



I'm on a First Active  tracker and the same situation as above applied to me. (UB and FA are part of the same group).

Payment date 28th.

 ECB rate increase July 3rd, my July payment was at old rate, August was at new one.
ECB decrease October 7th,  my Oct was payment was at old rate.

Got a letter stating new rate effective from Nov 1, so my Nov 28th payment will be at new rate.

So In my case, I've no cause to ring Joe Duffy ;-)


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## Dave Vanian

IrlJidel said:


> I'm on a First Active tracker and the same situation as above applied to me. (UB and FA are part of the same group).
> 
> Payment date 28th.
> 
> ECB rate increase July 3rd, my July payment was at old rate, August was at new one.
> ECB decrease October 7th, my Oct was payment was at old rate.
> 
> Got a letter stating new rate effective from Nov 1, so my Nov 28th payment will be at new rate.
> 
> So In my case, I've no cause to ring Joe Duffy ;-)


 
Lucky you.  I've a First Active Offset mortgage.  The increase in July was with immediate effect.  I'm still waiting on any letter about the decrease.


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## MTW

I'm affected by this also - while it's only cost me €27 I'm very angry at the principle and know they will do it again and again if there is no fuss.

Just spoke to one of the UB House Mortgages call centre reps. He first tried to fob me off by saying the rate decrease is delayed to 1-Dec because my interest is charged in arrears, meaning it only kicks in in December for the November period. When I pointed out that this should then apply for increases as well as decreases, he then changed tactics and moved onto the '30-day rule explanation'. Incidentally I've been trying to find this in my mortgage documentation but can't yet - so if anyone can tell me where it is I'd be grateful.

He said he's received 30/40 calls since Monday but I'm only the 2nd person who wants to make a formal complaint. So please if you're affected put pen to paper (or keystrokes to keyboard). Look what grey power achieved!

Address is:

Customer Concern Team (!)
First Active Building
Ulster Bank House Mortgages
Central Park
Leopardstown
Dublin 18.

You need to quote your mortgage reference number (entitled Our Ref on any UB letters). It's obvious that the call centre have been given some instructions on what to say to complainers but I guess it's no harm ringing them as a first step. I'm not too optimistic but I've completely had it with the wunch of bankers in this country.


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## knealecat

What the story if you have a ufirst account do you still get the 0.1% discount, just been onto the CS and was told it had been scrapped??  and to get in touch with my branch for an explenation


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## TRS30

Am on a BOS Ireland tracker and just rang them as my November payment was the same as October. The girl told me that the reduction had been applied to my account since 1 November (within the 30 days) and that my overpayment would be taken off my capital. Reduced payment will kick in in December.

Seems fair enough to me and have asked for a statement to confirm this.


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## mollser

knealecat said:


> What the story if you have a ufirst account do you still get the 0.1% discount, just been onto the CS and was told it had been scrapped??  and to get in touch with my branch for an explenation



I recall a letter from UB explaining this was scrapped for NEW tracker mortgages (the discount now applies to variable mortgages) - existing trackers not effected.  

Majorly fkd off with UB about this, no other banks outside this group have taken the same approach - Jill Kerby in the Sunday Times should surely mention this in her column - she loves this stuff, anyone got her email??


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## gally74

everone should lodge a complaint both ways throught the branch you took the loan out with and through head quaters,

the reps on the phone have been briefied but dont let them get to you,

let them know the unbudsman will be getting the call.


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## tipperjoe

Hi Guys
Rang UB this morning and was also told they have 30 days to apply the interest rate cut even on tracker mortgages. Was told its in the terms and conditions under section 14. Have not checked yet as at work, but will later. Asked how come they never waited 30 days to put up the rates and was told its at their discretion. Not a happy chappy


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## Ceist Beag

Has anyone had any joy getting this reimbursed and if so how did ye go about it?


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## al2000

My tracker mortgage payment from UB comes out of my account on the 1st of each month. Same as folk here, I didn't see last month's rate cut passed on.
Looks like it'll be passed on on my next payment 1st December.
If[please God] the ECB cut the rate again today, does this mean I won't see this rate cut until 1st January?

All banks seem to have washed their hands of offering tracker mortgages to new customers, but, do any banks offer tracker mortgages to existing tracker mortgage holders with other banks? Eg: is a tracker mortgage available, at lets say AIB, if I wanted to switch my current one from UB?


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## plant43

al2000 said:


> All banks seem to have washed their hands of offering tracker mortgages to new customers, but, do any banks offer tracker mortgages to existing tracker mortgage holders with other banks? Eg: is a tracker mortgage available, at lets say AIB, if I wanted to switch my current one from UB?




Even if you could swtich trackers, you more than likely wouldn't get as good a rate.


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## Barty

I phoned Ulster bank this morning, and got the story about 30 days termsw and conditions etc as to why rate decrease has not been passed down.

This is very annoying, they are basically taking 100 euro out of my pocket, and the incrases take affect like clockwork. Announcement made, letter in post within a week, increase next repayment.

I am going to send them a letter, and start looking into changing bank.


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## al2000

plant43 said:


> Even if you could swtich trackers, you more than likely wouldn't get as good a rate.



Probably not. Our rate is 1.15% + ECB.

On the subject of a letter, we haven't received one about the cut last month. And yes, once any increase was announced, we got the customary letter and bang there was the direct debit staring you in the face laughing at you.


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## doogo

Barty said:


> I phoned Ulster bank this morning, and got the story about 30 days termsw and conditions etc as to why rate decrease has not been passed down.
> 
> This is very annoying, they are basically taking 100 euro out of my pocket, and the incrases take affect like clockwork. Announcement made, letter in post within a week, increase next repayment.
> 
> I am going to send them a letter, and start looking into changing bank.


 
I'm with you, Barty, and the others who have spoken to the written response - it's the only real way to make a complaint.

I've attached a link to the FS Ombudsman complaint form ([broken link removed])

Am going to complete that and attach it to a formal letter of complaint to the Bank centre (for me its UB as well ... grrrr) and cc the whole thing to the financial services ombudsman to make doubly sure i get a response on this.

Don't know if there is any point in contacting the Financial Regulator directly - they dont' deal with individual complaints.

It is so predictably underhanded - I don't agree with the 30 day rule, I especially do not agree when the bank tries to take up to 50 days to pass it on and I really object that they can *always* manage to pass on the increase in the next month and yet *stall* on the first decrease

*Planet24*, let us know if the rate actually does change for you on 28/11 - that would be plain wrong if it does not - a full 50 days after the announcement of the cut ....


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## IrlJidel

Another  0.5 cut announced today. *UB stated rate will come into affect on Dec 1*.

see here



"Three banks operating in the Irish market have said they *will pass on the half a percentage ECB rate cut in full to their tracker and variable interest rate mortgage customers.*


 Ulster Bank and Bank of Scotland Ireland said the new rates will come *into effect from December 1*, while earlier AIB said it would pass on the rate cut in full."


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## al2000

IrlJidel said:


> Another  0.5 cut announced today. *UB stated rate will come into affect on Dec 1*.
> 
> see here
> 
> 
> 
> "Three banks operating in the Irish market have said they *will pass on the half a percentage ECB rate cut in full to their tracker and variable interest rate mortgage customers.*
> 
> 
> Ulster Bank and Bank of Scotland Ireland said the new rates will come *into effect from December 1*, while earlier AIB said it would pass on the rate cut in full."



Cheers for posting that.
So, my next payment on Dec 1st  should include the 0.5 % interest cut from October plus todays 0.5% cut?


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## Sunny

al2000 said:


> Cheers for posting that.
> So, my next payment on Dec 1st should include the 0.5 % interest cut from October plus todays 0.5% cut?


 
No you will have to wait till your January 1st payment for the second 50bp drop.

There is no point contacting regulators and ombundsman etc about passing on the rate cut. Ulster Bank are doing nothing wrong. It is in terms and conditions of the mortgage (I am with them as well and not happy about it). By all means name and shame them on sites like this but there are no grounds for formal complaints.


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## al2000

Sunny said:


> No you will have to wait till your January 1st payment for the second 50bp drop.



Bastids!!!!


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## bobby04

irishpancake said:


> It's 1890 252 304.



I would encourage everyone who is affected by UB not passing on the decreases promptly, to call the number helpfully supplied by irishpancake above. While on the phone to them, I could hear other operators in the background giving the same excuses etc. to other callers. It sounds like they are being inundated with complaints which may well prompt them to rethink their policy. I have to say the girl I spoke to seemed to be actually embarassed trying to defend UB's position, and finally protested that she was just relaying what she was told to. She assured me someone from complaints would phone me, and I intend to complain in writing also.


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## plant43

Sunny said:


> No you will have to wait till your January 1st payment for the second 50bp drop.



I will get mine on December 28th.


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## plant43

bobby04 said:


> I would encourage everyone who is affected by UB not passing on the decreases promptly, to call the number helpfully supplied by irishpancake above. While on the phone to them, I could hear other operators in the background giving the same excuses etc. to other callers. It sounds like they are being inundated with complaints which may well prompt them to rethink their policy. I have to say the girl I spoke to seemed to be actually embarassed trying to defend UB's position, and finally protested that she was just relaying what she was told to. She assured me someone from complaints would phone me, and I intend to complain in writing also.



I really doubt they will rethink their policy. They are not breaking any of their terms and conditions and I doubt many people will jump ship, give the current state of the mortgage market. I know that my rate (ECB + 0.75%) cannot be bettered at the moment.

The only hope is the ombudsman, but if they are not breaking their terms and conditions, I really don't see what the ombudsman could possibly do.


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## NavanMan1

As predicted here by someone on this thread, Ulster Bank failed to get back to me within 48 hours regarding my complaint in delay on their part to pass on the Oct rate cut.

I have now posted off the following letter below to this address

*Ulster Bank*
*FREEPOST*
*Customer Relations*
*Retail Markets*
*PO BOX 145*
*Dublin 2.*

Will give them two weeks to reply and then its off to the Financial Ombudsman.

Text of letter below

Dear Sir / Madam,
                              I am writing to you in relation to a complaint I have with the recent interest rate reduction on my Tracker Mortgage Account# ?????????

I tried to get this resolved on the phone when I was talking to Joanne, one of your Customer Service Agents on Monday Nov03rd at approx 13:45. As she could not resolve it for me, she told me that one of her supervisors would call me back within 48 hours and gave me a case# ?????? as reference for my complaint, as of now, I have heard nothing back from them.

My complaint is in relation to the procedure you use to implement changes to the interest rate on my ECB Tracker Mortgage which seems to be inconsistent in the timelines used between increases and reductions, which leaves me at a disadvantage regarding my repayments. Outlined below is the background behind my complaint.

On July09th 2008, the ECB increased its rate. I received a letter from Ulster Bank, *5 days *later informing me of the change and my increased repayment, which came into force on August01st 2008 which was *23 days* after the rate increase.
On October08th 2008, the ECB reduced its rate. After 29 days, I have yet to receive a letter informing me of this reduction. On Nov03rd, *26 days* after the rate cut, my mortgage repayment was still at the higher old rate.
When I phoned up Ulster Bank Customer Service on this matter, they informed me that the October rate reduction does not come into effect until my next repayment date on December01st 2008 which is *54 days* after the original ECB rate cut.
So for a rate increase, its implemented within 23 days, however for a rate reduction, it takes 54 days to implement, a large discrepancy I think you will agree, and one which puts me at a disadvantage.

I would be grateful if you could explain why I should have to pay an extra months repayment at the old higher rate for the month of October ?

Yours truly,


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## mollser

Sunny said:


> No you will have to wait till your January 1st payment for the second 50bp drop.
> 
> There is no point contacting regulators and ombundsman etc about passing on the rate cut. Ulster Bank are doing nothing wrong. It is in terms and conditions of the mortgage (I am with them as well and not happy about it). By all means name and shame them on sites like this but there are no grounds for formal complaints.



If what you say is true, UB continue to be VERY misleading about how they treat these cuts.  My interpretation is that if the 2nd 50bps cut is effective from 1 December, then my next payment on 1 December should include the cut?  But I know in practice I'll have to wait till 1 Jan for this cut.

I had the forms completed o move to AIB only about 6months ago with a more favourable rate, boy am I regretting not submitting them now.


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## Sunny

mollser said:


> If what you say is true, UB continue to be VERY misleading about how they treat these cuts. My interpretation is that if the 2nd 50bps cut is effective from 1 December, then my next payment on 1 December should include the cut? But I know in practice I'll have to wait till 1 Jan for this cut.
> 
> I had the forms completed o move to AIB only about 6months ago with a more favourable rate, boy am I regretting not submitting them now.


 
The latest cut becomes *effective from* the 1st of December i.e. starts on that date so why should your payment on the 1st include the cut? If your mortgage payment is on the 2nd, you would have one day at the cheaper rate. I don't like the way they do it but I don't see how they are misleading anyone.


----------



## mollser

> Most of the banks operating in the Irish market have said they will pass on the half a percentage ECB interest rate cut in full to their tracker and variable interest rate mortgage customers.
> 
> Ulster Bank and Bank of Scotland Ireland said the new rates will come into effect from December 1, while AIB said it would pass on the rate cut in full.
> 
> Bank of Ireland and ICS Building Society also confirmed today that they will pass on the full ECB rate decrease to their existing standard variable rate and tracker rate mortgage customers as well as to holders of their Variable LTV based products.
> 
> AdvertisementPermanent TSB said this afternoon that it will pass on the full 0.5% cut to existing residential mortgage customers on both tracker and variable products.
> 
> And the EBS Building Society also said that it will reduce its standard variable rates by 50 basis points. These changes will be reflected in existing members' December mortgage repayments.



http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/1106/mortgage.html

From what we know about how each bank has treated the October rate cut, which bank stands out as using the same language as the other banks knowing full well that it will be a month later until they pass the cut on?


----------



## newtogame

Im in a similar situation.Immediate application of increased rate but still no notification from UB re decrease.I spoke to them this morning and got the usual rubbish.I spoke to IFSRA and they advise to put in writing to UBCustomer Care Manager-Ceri Smith(01-7028324).They have to reply within 5 days to acknowledge receipt of complaint and must resolve issue within 40 days.If not contact Financial Ombudsman at 1890 882090.They advise checking your contract to see what time period they stipulated for application of increases/decreases.Hope that is helpful


----------



## Sunny

mollser said:


> http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/1106/mortgage.html
> 
> From what we know about how each bank has treated the October rate cut, which bank stands out as using the same language as the other banks knowing full well that it will be a month later until they pass the cut on?


 
Eh, don't they and Bank of Scotland clearly say it is effective from the 1st of December unlike the other banks so its not the same language? I know you are not happy and you should complain but there is nothing underhand about it and they are not hiding it.


----------



## kcb

Be Nice said:


> BTW has anybody else experienced a lot of difficulties when dealing with UB in general?



They are the worst bank I have ever dealt with. Had major delays getting a credit card, a loan and an overdraft on my account. All seperate headaches.

The only reason I stay with them is that I have a good tracker rate!

Have since gotten rid of everything else besides the mortgage.


----------



## Shaz

Thanks to this post, I checked my mortgage repayments to First Active Tracker mortgage and found that with the July ECB rate increased, the DD increased with my July 25th repayment. Rang them and they said that's an error - should not have taken effect until Aug 25th. But will ring me back to confirm. Now I want to check all historic payments made. Pls could you tell me where to find the ECB rate. I have gone to the website but don't know which rate to look at.

Thanks.


----------



## NorfBank

Shaz,
They could be within their rights increasing your July payment depending on terms and conditions of loan offer.
Here are a list of the recent cuts

06 Dec 2005   *2.25%*
08 Mar 2006  *2.50%*
15 Jun  2006   *2.75%*
09 Aug 2006 *3.0%*
11 Oct 2006 *3.25%*
13 Dec 2006 *3.50%*
14 Mar 2007  *3.75%*
13 Jun 2007  *4.00%*
09 July 2008  *4.25% *
15 Oct 2008 * 3.75% *
06 Nov 2008 *3.25%*


----------



## irishpancake

Can I suggest that all dissaffected Ulster Bank customers avail of their fantastic *Free *[broken link removed].

This would give all those customers affected by UB's fantastic Customer Services an opportunity of spending 45 minutes with some UB lackey.



> What is a Customer Service Review?
> 
> It's a service that offers you the opportunity to really get your money into great shape with a confidential consultation at your local branch. We can take a look at your finances with you, as well as answering any questions you have. So it's your chance to use our expertise at no additional cost. And, it could save you money too.
> 
> What can we do for you?
> 
> Everyone's different, but no matter what your money concerns or needs are, we can point you in the right direction. We'll look at your finances, listen to your thoughts, and help you to make your money work harder. We may even suggest a couple of things you haven't thought of!



Maybe we can even suggest a couple of things they haven't thought of!!


----------



## Conor_28

Think we're all in the same boat, but if UB can skim €100 from every mortgage holder each time there's a rate cut (and according to today's papers, there are more cuts on the way), all the protest letters and calls to Joe Duffy won't make them change policy.
I have my credit card with Ulster, will definitely be taking business elsewhere. Small gesture, but as other people have said, I won't get a better mortgage deal from anyone else at the moment.


----------



## Luckycharm

Well I have just written in to complain as well as rang them to be told this latest decrase will not be done till my Jan payment


----------



## Niamh

was talking to PTSB  and the October rate change was applied on the 7/11 but apparently there is another system which actually recalculates the payment which is only run on the 15th of the month, and therefore the actual reduction to the amount deducted will not be applied until this date, so the October rate cut wont be applied till December… convenient! I just sent off a complaint, its pretty tough to move mortgage at min but I will definitely be closing up my current account with them if they don’t sort this out, it’s a complete scam!


----------



## havetoask

i also have  an ulster bank tracker mortgage, rang ulster bank this morning and was told oct discout will be giving from first of dec. and nov disc. giving in jan. very strange that when there is a ecb rate hike ulster bank increase it st8 away. i put this to gentleman on the phone and he told me something about 30 day rule which i didnt understand. also why they had not the courtesy to contact there customers and let them know. anyother ub customers feel the same and is thr, anything we can do ?


----------



## dublinhead

There is a letter in todays indo about it


----------



## MikeL

havetoask said:


> anyother ub customers feel the same


Plenty!


> and is thr, anything we can do ?


Nope. They are perfectly within their rights according to the contracts. However, the speed with which they implement rate increases, in contrast to the snail-on-valium slowness with which they respond to rate decreases, is typical of the cynical greed of these people. In my opinion it's just plain nasty, seedy, rather sad and pathetic, and makes me want to wipe the soles of my shoes on something.

Par for the course for a wunch of bankers.


----------



## MikeL

kcb said:


> They are the worst bank I have ever dealt with. Had major delays getting a credit card, a loan and an overdraft on my account. All seperate headaches..



Add to that the slowest, ugliest, most feature-deprived internet banking website I've seen in 3 countries, including supposedly third world South Africa.

I think I'd better stop posting about UB. I'm starting to foam at the mouth.


----------



## irishpancake

MikeL said:


> Plenty!
> 
> Nope. They are perfectly within their rights according to the contracts. However, the speed with which they implement rate increases, in contrast to the snail-on-valium slowness with which they respond to rate decreases, is typical of the cynical greed of these people. In my opinion it's just plain nasty, seedy, rather sad and pathetic, and makes me want to wipe the soles of my shoes on something.
> 
> Par for the course for a wunch of bankers.



I agree with all you say, but the fact that they are probably within their rights under the letter of the law does not preclude customers from making a complaint to UB, as I have done. 

And I fully intend following this up with a complaint to the FSOB regarding UB's cynical money-grabbing ploy. 

I am sure that people are fed up hearing this, but these Pirates took the first available opportunity to pass on ECB rate increases, sometimes within within a few days of the announcement. 

But now thet claim they have the right to delay rate reductions until the last possible day.

This should speak volumns about these Pirates, who worship the "Bottom line" above all else.


----------



## rameire

gally74 said:


> everone should lodge a complaint both ways throught the branch you took the loan out with and through head quaters,
> 
> the reps on the phone have been briefied but dont let them get to you,
> 
> let them know the unbudsman will be getting the call.


 
you signed the loan offer, deal with the terms and conditions, dont like it, move.


----------



## rameire

the ecb notified people of the rate cut on the 9th of oct, this rate cut was then implemented on the 15th of oct by the ecb. when it is announced it is not implemented straight away.
so if your t's @ c's state they will pass on the rate reduction within 30 days they will apply the rate to your mortgage within 30 days of the oct 15th, so up until the 15th of november.
so lets say they reduce your rate on the 14th of nov, and you pay on the 1st of every month, the repayment you make on the 1st of november will not take into account the rate reduction, but your mortgage rate will reduce on the 14th of nov, and your repayment on dec 1st will take into account the rate reduction.

its the same for the rate reduction on the 5th of nov, it was not implemented by the ecb until the 12th of nov, ill let you calc the rest


----------



## plant43

irishpancake said:


> This should speak volumns about these Pirates, who worship the "Bottom line" above all else.



Sorry but last time checked Ulster Bank were a bank. What else do you expect them to do other than worship the bottom line?


----------



## irishpancake

rameire said:


> the ecb notified people of the rate cut on the 9th of oct, this rate cut was then implemented on the 15th of oct by the ecb. *when it is announced it is not implemented straight away.*



Thanks for explaining the intricacies of UB Mortgage Rate Change implementation to us ignorant people here.

Perhaps now you can explain how they managed to implement _*ECB Rate Increases *_*straight away*, for the last 9 rate changes since Dec. 2005.

Could it possibly be that UB are quite prepared to maximise their profits by passing on rate increases straight away, but are loathe to implement rate decreases in the same efficient fashion, because they simply want to continue to extract high rates from customers for as long as possible? 

We know they can do it, but there is an argument to be made for consistancy in implementing rate changes.

If UB implemented _Rate Increases_ in the same fashion as they have implemented these rate reductions, nobody would be complaining.

By the way, my T&C's don't just apply to reductions, they apply to rate changes either way.


----------



## plant43

irishpancake said:


> We know they can do it, but there is an argument to be made for consistancy in implementing rate changes.



The only consistency they have to maintain is to not break the T&C's of the agreement which they are not doing.


----------



## rameire

irishpancake said:


> Thanks for explaining the intricacies of UB Mortgage Rate Change implementation to us ignorant people here.
> 
> Perhaps now you can explain how they managed to implement _*ECB Rate Increases *_*straight away*, for the last 9 rate changes since Dec. 2005.
> 
> Could it possibly be that UB are quite prepared to maximise their profits by passing on rate increases straight away, but are loathe to implement rate decreases in the same efficient fashion, because they simply want to continue to extract high rates from customers for as long as possible?
> 
> We know they can do it, but there is an argument to be made for consistancy in implementing rate changes.
> 
> If UB implemented _Rate Increases_ in the same fashion as they have implemented these rate reductions, nobody would be complaining.
> 
> By the way, my T&C's don't just apply to reductions, they apply to rate changes either way.


 
they implemented them when they did because they could, as it states in the t's and c's.

they dont have to be consistant, why? because you signed up to their t's and c's which lets them implement them on day 1 or day 30.

and they are a bank, their main drive is to make money, so of course they are going to try and maximise profits.

and i know the t's and c's are relatant to increases and decreases.
some banks actually separate the t's and c's for increases and decreases in rates.
i know of some that for an increase, they can change it within 30 days.
but for a decrease they can change it within 7 days.
so make sure they did it within the t's and c's, make sure that there are no sub sections or extra areas on the t's and c's related to rate decrease's.

what dates did your mortgage rates actually go up? see dates below.


----------



## rameire

Below are the dates of the rate being implemented and the rates when they were actually announce.

06 Dec 2005 *2.25% rate announced on* 1st December
08 Mar 2006 *2.50% rate announced on* 2nd March
15 Jun 2006 *2.75% rate announced on* 8th June
09 Aug 2006 *3.0% rate announced on* 3rd August
11 Oct 2006 *3.25% rate announced on* 5th October
13 Dec 2006 *3.50% rate announced on* 7th December
14 Mar 2007 *3.75% rate announced on* 8th March
13 Jun 2007 *4.00% rate announced on* 6th June
09 July 2008 *4.25% rate announced on* 3rd july
15 Oct 2008 *3.75% rate announced on* 8th october
12 Nov 2008 *3.25% rate announced on* 6th November


----------



## gally74

rameire said:


> you signed the loan offer, deal with the terms and conditions, dont like it, move.



kind of think this is a bit stupit,

every one knows the terms ad conditions,

this is bout being a customer and expecting to be treated like a customer.!


----------



## gally74

actually

rameri are you with Ulster Bank?


----------



## rameire

gally74 said:


> actually
> 
> rameri are you with Ulster Bank?


 
no.

and your relationship with the company is set out in the terms and conditions, understand these and you understand your place as a customer. 
care not to understand the terms and conditions and you ask questions which are set out in the terms and conditions, which makes you an annoyance, and more than likely to threaten the customers service agent with Joe Duffy.


----------



## irishpancake

gally74 said:


> actually
> 
> rameri are you with Ulster Bank?



I would also like to know the answer to a rephrased question please _rameire_.

Do you have any relationship with RBS/Ulster Bank/First Active?

Is this relationship a customer relationship, or are you employed in any capacity by RBS?

It is extremely odd that you have re-emerged after a silence of over two years.

And your only other post was on a subject which related to First Active products and just how these were to be integrated into the RBS IT platform, a subject on which you seemed to have a pretty in-depth knowledge of.

Although, when one looks at you typical RBS anti-customer rant, it leads one to believe that you are just one of their minions taking the calls



> and your relationship with the company is set out in the terms and conditions, understand these and you _*understand your place as a customer*_.
> care not to understand the terms and conditions and you ask questions which are set out in the terms and conditions, *which makes you an annoyance, and more than likely to threaten the customers service agent with Joe Duffy.*




Can you clarify, for the benefit of all the participants in this discussion, just what your relationship with RBS/UB/FA is?


----------



## Ceist Beag

rameire said:


> Below are the dates of the rate being implemented and the rates when they were actually announce.
> 
> 06 Dec 2005 *2.25% rate announced on* 1st December
> 08 Mar 2006 *2.50% rate announced on* 2nd March
> 15 Jun 2006 *2.75% rate announced on* 8th June
> 09 Aug 2006 *3.0% rate announced on* 3rd August
> 11 Oct 2006 *3.25% rate announced on* 5th October
> 13 Dec 2006 *3.50% rate announced on* 7th December
> 14 Mar 2007 *3.75% rate announced on* 8th March
> 13 Jun 2007 *4.00% rate announced on* 6th June
> 09 July 2008 *4.25% rate announced on* 3rd july
> 15 Oct 2008 *3.75% rate announced on* 8th october
> 12 Nov 2008 *3.25% rate announced on* 6th November


rameire either I'm picking you up wrong or this is simply unaccurate. If the 8th Oct decrease was implemented on the 15th of Oct then I would expect to have this reflected in my November repayment (as I would for any increase) - this was not the case, likewise I very much doubt the 6th Nov decrease will be reflected in my Dec repayment. Can you clarify this?


----------



## plant43

Ceist Beag said:


> rameire either I'm picking you up wrong or this is simply unaccurate. If the 8th Oct decrease was implemented on the 15th of Oct then I would expect to have this reflected in my November repayment (as I would for any increase) - this was not the case, likewise I very much doubt the 6th Nov decrease will be reflected in my Dec repayment. Can you clarify this?



He means it was implemented by the ECB on that date, and from that date the banks have 30 days to increase/decrease the rates.


----------



## irishpancake

plant43 said:


> *He* means it was implemented by the ECB on that date



How do you know _rameire_ is male?




plant43 said:


> and from that date the banks have 30 days to increase/decrease the rates.



And Ulster Bank have decided on each and every occasion since Dec. 2005 to pass on Rate Increases on the first available opportunity, but for the latest 2 rate changes(Decreases), they have cynically decided to delay to the last possible date, which for most people means an extra month at the old higher rate.

Consistant, No. Cynical, Yes.


----------



## plant43

irishpancake said:


> How do you know _rameire_ is male?


 
I don't



> And Ulster Bank have decided on each and every occasion since Dec. 2005 to pass on Rate Increases on the first available opportunity, but for the latest 2 rate changes(Decreases), they have cynically decided to delay to the last possible date, which for most people means an extra month at the old higher rate.
> 
> Consistant, No. Cynical, Yes.



Actually, the first available opportunity would be the next working day. I am guessing the last increase in July was only applied around the 31st of  July (my payment on the 28th was still the same).


----------



## Luckycharm

Has anyone got any response from UB- I wrote in and complained and have heard nothing!!


----------



## di74

Wrote to UB re this on 6th Nov and got a reply dated 7th Nov ...... letter states

_'I am sorry you were unhappy with the service you recently received, but I am grateful that you took the time to contact us and explain why..... My team is investigating the case and will be in contact with you within the next 10 working days with a full response'_

I'm amazed I got this letter seeing as when I made the initial phone call (in October) querying my rate reduction, I was told a 'letter was in the post' yet this 'letter in the post' hasn't yet arrived?????
Haven't heard anything about the rate reduction for November either.... 

PS the also enclosed a lovely brochure called 'make your voice heard'  re how to complain to them


----------



## kcb

I've yet to receive a letter from UB re: the October or November decreases. I spoke to someone in the branch last week and she said there was a big backlog and hoped letters would be out in the next week.

At that rate the Nov notification might be out around Xmas?


I've never dealt with such a badly organised company in all my life.


----------



## AJC

Got notification in the post today from Ulster Bank.

They are backing dating the October change to 22nd October and apologised for a "Internal system issue" which prevented the new rate being applied on 1 November.

November rate cut will also be effective from a date in November (I don't have the latter in front of me)


----------



## LennyBriscoe

AJC said:


> Got notification in the post today from Ulster Bank.
> 
> They are backing dating the October change to 22nd October and apologised for a "Internal system issue" which prevented the new rate being applied on 1 November.
> 
> November rate cut will also be effective from a date in November (I don't have the latter in front of me)


 
The government are not the only body doing U turns these days. Thankfully UB have realised the error of their ways. 

Got my notification today similar to AJC. All smiles!


----------



## plant43

Interesting. Wonder are they doing the same for customers who didn't complain.


----------



## lyonsa3

got the same letter today from UB. looks like the telephone call and letter worked


----------



## IWONDER

I also received a letter today (I hadn't made a complaint)). My letter states the October change should have become effective on the 25th October and that November cut will be effective from the 22nd of this month.


----------



## murphaph

I'd say govt pressure was brought to bear on these chancers tbh.


----------



## rameire

murphaph said:


> I'd say govt pressure was brought to bear on these chancers tbh.


 
id says its to do with their ts and cs not being followed correctly and someone coping on that they made a mistake.


----------



## rameire

irishpancake said:


> I would also like to know the answer to a rephrased question please _rameire_.
> 
> Do you have any relationship with RBS/Ulster Bank/First Active?
> 
> Is this relationship a customer relationship, or are you employed in any capacity by RBS?
> 
> It is extremely odd that you have re-emerged after a silence of over two years.
> 
> And your only other post was on a subject which related to First Active products and just how these were to be integrated into the RBS IT platform, a subject on which you seemed to have a pretty in-depth knowledge of.
> 
> Although, when one looks at you typical RBS anti-customer rant, it leads one to believe that you are just one of their minions taking the calls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify, for the benefit of all the participants in this discussion, just what your relationship with RBS/UB/FA is?


 
ok, 
no i dont work for rbs, ub, fa, 
i do have a mortgage, 
i would have an indepth knowledge of ub and fa, and their products, 
i am in the financial industry, the knowledge would be from friends who also work in the financial industry, and just general nerdiness.
and the reason i havent been on in 2 years, is i forgot about this site, but started looking again due to the financial termoil and uproar.


----------



## rameire

Ceist Beag said:


> rameire either I'm picking you up wrong or this is simply unaccurate. If the 8th Oct decrease was implemented on the 15th of Oct then I would expect to have this reflected in my November repayment (as I would for any increase) - this was not the case, likewise I very much doubt the 6th Nov decrease will be reflected in my Dec repayment. Can you clarify this?


 
the dates are related to when the ecb notified the public of the increases or decreases, the implemented day is when the ecb actually implemendted the rate, the banks and financial instutions then have 7 or 30 or other days from the implementation day to apply the rates to their products.


----------



## ajapale

irishpancake said:


> I would also like to know the answer to a rephrased question please _rameire_.
> 
> Can you clarify, for the benefit of all the participants in this discussion, just what your relationship with RBS/UB/FA is?



IrishPancake, 

Enough of this freelance modding  ! If you have a problem with a post, poster or thread  or if you think posting guidelines have been breached please use the report post facility to bring it to the attention of the mods/admins.

Thanks,
aj
(mod)


----------



## ajapale

irishpancake said:


> I would also like to know the answer to a rephrased question please _rameire_.
> 
> Can you clarify, for the benefit of all the participants in this discussion, just what your relationship with RBS/UB/FA is?



IrishPancake, 

Enough of this freelance modding  ! If you have a problem with a post, poster or thread  or if you think posting guidelines have been breached please use the report post  facility to bring it to the attention of the mods/admins.

Thanks,
aj
(mod)


----------



## irishpancake

ajapale said:


> IrishPancake,
> 
> Enough of this freelance modding  ! If you have a problem with a post, poster or thread  or if you think posting guidelines have been breached please use the report post  facility to bring it to the attention of the mods/admins.
> 
> Thanks,
> aj
> (mod)



OK, aj 

I get the message, once was enough.

I accept _rameire's_ explanation.

I didn't mean to step over the line.

Since I started the thread, can I claim any credit for UB's apparant back-peddling on the rate decrease timing?


----------



## gally74

all i can say is ~Victory~

managed to get through to a manager friday or team leader,

i again voiced my issues and they way it was being dealy with,

he said that the rate cut decision was reversed since "all this blew up"

i reckon all the complaints did the trick,

well done to all and at least we can all benifit from the Euro's for Christmas.


----------



## roebourne9

im new to this so please excuse if i posted in wrong place.
my payments come out on 1st of month and like everyone no change to nov payment, got same excuses as everyone when i rang but finally got the  letter  in the post today, little bit confused by it, 
oct ecb reduction, effective from oct 25th, nov ecb reduction, effective from 22 nov "the new reduced interest rate on your mortgage is 4.20% (ecb +0.95). this reduction will be reflected in your dec repayment. the above *two* rate changes will decrease the monthly payment to xxxx amount at your next repayment date, in my case 1st dec. does that mean that i will see a further reduction again in Jan because of the date the rates were implemented. 
second question, i thought having a ufirst account reduction on mortgage was standard at 0.95% above ecb but noticed in one thread theirs was 0.75%?


----------



## rameire

do you pay on the 1st of the month for the previous month or for the current month.
if you are paying for the previous month you will see a reduction on 1st jan, if you are paying for the current month you will see no further reduction, unless the rates change again,
which more than likely will change by about 0.25% at the next meeting of the ecb.


----------



## roebourne9

when i rang to complain about no reduction in nov they told me i pay in arrears so that was why i wouldnt see it till dec payment.


----------



## rameire

you should see a further reduction in jan then, as you are paying in arrears.


----------



## rameire

i would suggest that everyone rings up their bank and ask for a copy of the t's and c's to be sent to you.
i am led to believe that ub most of their tracker rates state in the t's and c's, for an increase they have 30 days to pass on the increase, but usually do it after a few days, but for the decrease their t's and c's have to decrease within 7 to 10 days.
i also believe that ub forgot this was supposed to happen in 7 to 10 days as it hasnt happened for a few years, and they realised their error and are now correcting the error and backdating the interest.


----------



## irishpancake

rameire said:


> i would suggest that everyone rings up their bank and ask for a copy of the t's and c's to be sent to you.
> i am led to believe that ub most of their tracker rates state in the t's and c's, for an increase they have 30 days to pass on the increase, but usually do it after a few days, but for the decrease their t's and c's have to decrease within 7 to 10 days.
> i also believe that ub forgot this was supposed to happen in 7 to 10 days as it hasnt happened for a few years, and they realised their error and are now correcting the error and backdating the interest.



Are you sure, _rameire_, that clients of UB should rise above their place as mere customers, and actually ring the Bank 

Would the CSA's not percieve this action as unnecessarily provocative, and a sign that we customers had not read our ts & cs, and would they then treat us as an annoyance, who would/could threaten the aforementioned CSA's with good ould Joe Duffy!! see here

Of course, it's all in the ts & cs, which UB seem to be making up as they go along.


----------



## LennyBriscoe

rameire said:


> i also believe that ub forgot this was supposed to happen in 7 to 10 days as it hasnt happened for a few years, and they realised their error and are now correcting the error and backdating the interest.


 
You re living in cloud cuckoo land if you think UB 'forgot' how to change the configurations in their system to pass on the ECB cuts.

They realised their error after, and only after, media coverage and a huge volume of calls and letters to the support team.


----------



## Bronte

I think rameire's post 77 in this thread is very good. Banks are in business to make money and they will do whatever they can to maximise profit. It may seem unfair but if it's in the terms and conditions there is no way of getting around it.

In this particular instance, and it is an extraordinary time, the bank seems to have caved into pressure. What is not clear is where the pressure came from, it's either a) the government, b)financial regulator or c) people complaining. Perhaps a person in Ulsterbank on this site who works in the complaints department would care to enlighten us. 

As for banks forgetting or systems failures - pleaseeeee. We have enough historical evidence of systematic overcharging to not believe this. Funny how the 'systems failures' or banks 'overlooking something' never results in customers underpaying interest or bank charges.


----------



## plant43

LennyBriscoe said:


> They realised their error after, and only after, media coverage and a huge volume of calls and letters to the support team.



Was there any media coverage about this?


----------



## kcb

Got my letter yesterday too.

Great to see Ulster bank squirming a little bit.


----------



## LennyBriscoe

plant43 said:


> Was there any media coverage about this?


 
Yes I heard it discussed on a few radio stations; Todayfm and Newstalk


----------



## irishpancake

plant43 said:


> Was there any media coverage about this?



There was  in the Indo, and the issue was discussed on Newstalk and Today Fm.

And of course, all this here, on AAM, which the Banks take great notice of.

Also, they surely could not ignore the level of direct customer complaint, most of which would have ended up on the FSOB's desk.


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## Luckycharm

Yep got 3 letters from UB yesterday 2 about the rate changes and the other saying they were going to respond to my letter of complaint within 7/10 days


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## doogo

me too - glad to see them, sorry that we had to expend such energy in having the situation righted in the first place


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## roebourne9

looking back at my notification letters of increases/decreases etc they say in general due to recent ecb rate rise your rate will increase to whatever with effect from a specific date say 15th july for example and you will be paying xxxx at next due date. 1st aug. i pay in arrears
*1:*  does that mean from that the aug payment is made up of 15 days at old rate rate and rest of month at new one and come up with the figure for next payment date,  (hope your still with me) if this is correct then why is the sept payment the same figure as the aug payment, should it not be higher because *all* of the month is calculated at new rate.
this occured to me because of the letter i got on mon which stated that my nov payment should have included a reduction for the last 7 days of oct because the rate drop came into effect from 24th


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## plant43

roebourne9 said:


> looking back at my notification letters of increases/decreases etc they say in general due to recent ecb rate rise your rate will increase to whatever with effect from a specific date say 15th july for example and you will be paying xxxx at next due date. 1st aug. i pay in arrears
> *1:*  does that mean from that the aug payment is made up of 15 days at old rate rate and rest of month at new one and come up with the figure for next payment date,  (hope your still with me) if this is correct then why is the sept payment the same figure as the aug payment, should it not be higher because *all* of the month is calculated at new rate.
> this occured to me because of the letter i got on mon which stated that my nov payment should have included a reduction for the last 7 days of oct because the rate drop came into effect from 24th



As far as I know, interest is calculated on monthly basis in arrears. I think this means that your entire Oct repayment should have been at the new rate.


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## irishpancake

Well, got my form letter today from Mr. Paul Molumby, advising of the ECB rate reductions for Oct and Nov.

Effective dates are now 1st Nov and 1st Dec.

Cockup on effective dates due to an internal error 

They are currently investigating this error 

Oh, and BTW, They *Sincerely apologise* for any inconvenience this may have caused 

Perhaps someone will now take down the UB Press Release page to save themselves further embarrassment, thumbnail below, where they proudly announced in relation to the Oct. rate reduction.



> In line with the European Central Bank’s decision to cut rates by 0.5% Ulster Bank customers with Tracker mortgages will also benefit from a reduction in their interest rate by 0.5% from 1st December.




[broken link removed]


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## roebourne9

plant43 said:


> As far as I know, interest is calculated on monthly basis in arrears. I think this means that your entire Oct repayment should have been at the new rate.


 
so what you believe is that regardless of when the *bank* implement the new rate (taking the july increase for example effective from 14th july in their letter to me), my aug payment is calculated at the new rate for the *whole of july* not up to 14th at old rate and rest at new rate? and the sept payment will be the same as the aug payment. which by the way was the case.

*im quoting the letter i got on mon below which is the reason for my persistance on this*

*ECB RATE DECREASE-OCTOBER ANNOUNCEMENT*
PARAGRAPH 1....."we wish to advise you that following the ecb rate decrease announced on 8th of oct 2008 your mortgage rate was reduced by 0.5% with *effect from 1st nov.*" 
meaning payment on 1st of dec will be at new rate, calculated from 1st nov, correct?

*same letter next paragraph*
PARAGRAPH 2......"we also wish to advise you that this interest rate reduction should have been *effective* on your mortgage account from *oct 25th* 2008. due to an internal error, the reduction in your interest rate *for the last 7 days of oct was not applied to your account. *we are currently investigating this error and calculating the interest adjustment due. we will write to you in early dec with details of the resolution of this error. we sincerely apologise blah blah" 

meaning i should have had 7days of my nov payment at lower rate but they messed it up, correct?{say nothing of the two different effective dates quoted.}
which by my understanding means they calculated interest for oct at 23 days at higher rate and 7 at lower.
they then go on about the nov increase which i am not even looking at at the moment 

does this not contradict what plant43 believes and questions any previous rate increases and how they are calculated. please tell me someone else understands what i am talking about. and i do appologise for my long winded posts


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## rameire

LennyBriscoe said:


> You re living in cloud cuckoo land if you think UB 'forgot' how to change the configurations in their system to pass on the ECB cuts.
> 
> They realised their error after, and only after, media coverage and a huge volume of calls and letters to the support team.


 
factual information here, ub rate increases and decreases are inputted manually into their systems but the system then amends all the rates on the mortgages automatically.
ub actually thought they had 30 days to decrease the rates from date of implementation by the ecb, they didnt read their own ts and cs. this was until it was noticed, due to it being noticed they amended their rates and backdated the decreases to the relevant dates.
it wasnt due to media coverage or due to complaints, it was due to someone checking the ts and cs and notifying the head guys in ub they got it wrong.


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## Ceist Beag

rameire said:


> factual information here, ub rate increases and decreases are inputted manually into their systems but the system then amends all the rates on the mortgages automatically.
> ub actually thought they had 30 days to decrease the rates from date of implementation by the ecb, they didnt read their own ts and cs. this was until it was noticed, due to it being noticed they amended their rates and backdated the decreases to the relevant dates.
> it wasnt due to media coverage or due to complaints, it was due to someone checking the ts and cs and notifying the head guys in ub they got it wrong.



rameire given that you don't work for ub you certainly claim to know a lot about what went on here!  Either that or else I think you're given ub far too much benefit here. I don't for a minute believe it was a mistake.


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## kcb

rameire said:


> factual information here, ub rate increases and decreases are inputted manually into their systems but the system then amends all the rates on the mortgages automatically.
> ub actually thought they had 30 days to decrease the rates from date of implementation by the ecb, they didnt read their own ts and cs. this was until it was noticed, due to it being noticed they amended their rates and backdated the decreases to the relevant dates.
> it wasnt due to media coverage or due to complaints, it was due to someone checking the ts and cs and notifying the head guys in ub they got it wrong.


Christ, I always thought UB were a disorganised and incompetent shower but I never realised they were *that *bad!

Unreal.


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## irishpancake

Ceist Beag said:


> rameire given that you don't work for ub you certainly claim to know a lot about what went on here!  Either that or else I think you're given ub far too much benefit here. I don't for a minute believe it was a mistake.



I do think there are a number of posters in this thread who certainly have a vested interest in "muddying the waters" and trying to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary UB/RBS customers, regarding the magnitude of the stroke UB/RBS were intent upon pulling on their customers.

I'm talking about all the posts regarding rate announcements dates, implementation dates, the "t's and c's", customers ignorance of these, now UB/RBS's ignorance of these same "t's and c's".

The plain simple facts are that UB/RBS have always in the past, since Dec. 2005 in my own case, passed on ECB Rate Increases as soon as they could, i.e. in the next Mortgage Payment due. 

They departed from this practise on this occasion, for their own greedy reasons, and are now furiously back-peddling to try to recover some form of honour and dignity.

But of course we all know that there is No Honour Among Thieves


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## rameire

ive heard the world is flat im going to find the edge with the rest of you.
screw this.


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## edwardg

While this post maybe slightly off topic I just want to say something not in defence of the Ulster Bank. I have had a mortgage with them for several years. In that time I have been lucky enough to be in a position to make some major capital repayments off my loan. When I made one of the capital repayments I clearly in bold letters asked them to shorten the term of the loan and maintain my same level of payments. What did they do? Keep the same term and reduce the payments. Three letters and five phone calls later they sorted it out with the usual profuse apologies from Mr. Molumby. A variation of this happened to me with a subsuquent capital repayment.

British Government Minister John Reid described the Home Office as not fit for purpose when he took it over a few years ago. The same description could easily apply to the Ulster Bank. Their incompetence is breathtaking. I have worked in both the private and public sector and I have never experienced the level of inefficiency that I have observed with Ulster Bank over the last few years.

I have no connections in anyway with the financial industry I just feel so frustrated when you get these letters after a long struggle apologising for the inconvenience caused and emphasising the importance they attach to your customs.


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## kcb

edwardg said:


> Their incompetence is breathtaking.


That sums them up alright.

I would have moved mortgage except that I have a good rate with them and would not get it elsewhere, especially now.

I have had problems with accounts, overdrafts and a credit card fiasco to beat all. 

A friend had to wait almost 6 months to get a credit card. Again, you would give them a miss except that they have good rates etc.

From the outside They seem to invest all their time/money in good rates and advertising and pay peanuts to hire idiots to manage their admin.


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## desperatedan

I think the "No honour among thieves" quote just about drove poor old rameirri over the edge (of the world) 

Perhaps UB are actually the Flat Earth Society


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## Bronte

rameire said:


> ive heard the world is flat im going to find the edge with the rest of you.
> screw this.


 Please come back, not everyone disagrees with you.


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## finbar

I took out my tracker mortgage with Ulster bank in 2004, having read through all of the paerwork/ terms and conditions i signed with the mortgage etc i rang ulster bank to find out why i have not recieved any notification or reduction in my mortgage for any of the 2 half percentage point decreases etc. There is no mention of a 30 day period to pass on ECB rates in my mortgage paperwork i signed to which i informed them over the phone. They said they would get back to me in a few days . I got a letter off them about three days later to say my case was looked into , and that all ECB reductions are to be passed on , about a week after the OCT and a week after the Nov one. Not DEC1st and Jan 1st ( 30 days after the ECB reduction they first speeled out to me over the phone). The mortgage paper work is a legal document that clearly states my Mortgage must track the ECB rate by 1.05%. So anyone with a circa '04 mortgage should check thier orrigional loan offer paperwork and demand this from Ulster bank. !


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## Luckycharm

My mortgage is from 2004 and got a letter from UB yesterday regarding my letter of complaint and they said that would be changing the ECB rate within a week of the date so will be interested to see how much they my mortgage payment will be on the 1st Dec. They also included a brochure for the Financial Ombudmans.

Ironically I was at a do last week where the Financial Ombudsman was the guest speaker, I managed to have a chat with him after and brought this up- he said they were entitled to do what was within their t and c's.


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## plant43

Well my payment came out today and I fully expected to see both rate decreases applied, but only the first one was. I called Ulster Bank and they said the second one would be reflected in my December 28th payment. I said I thought second rate decrease was passed on on the 24th November, he said they have 30 days to pass it on again?

So I'm all rather confused.


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## rameire

plant43 said:


> Well my payment came out today and I fully expected to see both rate decreases applied, but only the first one was. I called Ulster Bank and they said the second one would be reflected in my December 28th payment. I said I thought second rate decrease was passed on on the 24th November, he said they have 30 days to pass it on again?
> 
> So I'm all rather confused.


 
firstly, you got an idiot on the phone, 
secondly you are right in saying you got the first rate reduction in the repayment, and you are correct in saying that the rate reduced on the 24th, which means you will be paying interest at the lower rate from the 24th to the end of the month, 
but as the rate was applied on the 24th they were not able to amend your direct debit which was paid today, this is due to their system which started pulling the direct debit 5 days before it is actually due, so they started pulling your direct debit on the 23rd the day before your rate was changed, so the system still thinks it was at the higher rate, 
this is also good news for you, as it means more of the capital has been paid off which in turn will reduce the interest you pay in the future, it may be a few cent but its still something.

you may think the system is stupid, its not, its a good way of working, just imagine they upped the repayments the day before your due date, and sent out a letter to you, you wouldnt received the letter until after your payment was applied for , thus meaning you could have missed your payment, due to insufficient funds in your account.
its just a buffer time so nothing can effect your repayment.


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## phantom60

kcb said:


> From the outside They seem to invest all their time/money in good rates and advertising and pay peanuts to hire idiots to manage their admin.


 

According to their website their Flexible Variable Rate is currently 6.1%.
Doesn't seem a good rate to me.


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## Luckycharm

rameire said:


> firstly, you got an idiot on the phone,
> secondly you are right in saying you got the first rate reduction in the repayment, and you are correct in saying that the rate reduced on the 24th, which means you will be paying interest at the lower rate from the 24th to the end of the month,
> but as the rate was applied on the 24th they were not able to amend your direct debit which was paid today, this is due to their system which started pulling the direct debit 5 days before it is actually due, so they started pulling your direct debit on the 23rd the day before your rate was changed, so the system still thinks it was at the higher rate,
> this is also good news for you, as it means more of the capital has been paid off which in turn will reduce the interest you pay in the future, it may be a few cent but its still something.
> 
> you may think the system is stupid, its not, its a good way of working, just imagine they upped the repayments the day before your due date, and sent out a letter to you, you wouldnt received the letter until after your payment was applied for , thus meaning you could have missed your payment, due to insufficient funds in your account.
> its just a buffer time so nothing can effect your repayment.


 
Rameire- do you work for UB or not you seem to be defending them to the hilt and seem to take any critcism of UB personally why is that?

Any there was a reduction this month I presume this is the Oct one and there will be a further reduction in my Jan payment?


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## Mpsox

Firstly, and in the interests of clarity, I used to work for UB but left a number of years ago, however I still have contacts in the bank.

As a tracker mortgage holder, I've always got letters from them advising me of any mortgage increases or decreases. Where the bank did mess up was by leaving me on an interest only mortgage for a number of months(whilst we were selling a house) after it should have moved to a standard repayment. it did probably take longer then it should have for them to sort it out, but they did and gave me a compensation cheque for €100.25 (and I'd love to know how they calculated that one out)

UB used to be a great bank to do business with. However in 2006 they integrated their IT systems into that of their parent group, RBSG, and in my view took a significant step backwards as a result as the RBSG standard system was nowhere near as good as the UB internal systems. That has hampered UB staff in recent years. 

Secondly, virtually everyone in UB is now reporting in to RBS and the real power is in Edinburgh. The discretion that the local manager had is gone. The stories from UB staff dealing with RBSG are scary, in particuler when it comes to resolving issues that are out of the norm for RBSG/or are Irish based only issues

I can't comment on whether or not UB had system issues that Rameire says, my experience of UB is that it is a distinct possibilty and also that it's a possibility that people in RBSG did not understand either the T&Cs that UB apply or how they would normally have dealt with these in the past. 

Can I also ask that posters refrain from using comments such as idiots,lackeys and minnions when referring to UB staff. The majority of staff in UB are decent hardworking people but quite often the person you are dealing with has their hand tied behind their back when dealing with you due to heir employers poor systems and training.  That is not a staff members fault

Hopefully the new change in senior management in Edinburgh, with Fred "the Shred"" Goodwin being ousted from the top, will begin some change in UB


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## rameire

Luckycharm said:


> Rameire- do you work for UB or not you seem to be defending them to the hilt and seem to take any critcism of UB personally why is that?
> 
> Any there was a reduction this month I presume this is the Oct one and there will be a further reduction in my Jan payment?


 
again i do not work for ub, see previous posts for info, secondly, im informing you of what is happening, if you do not like that, its your choice.

if i know things for a fact i will post them otherwise i would not post, 
it is my judgment and factual information which is disputed and discredited which is hard to take critcism on.


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## Alan Robert

Want to check UB mortgage repayments.

Reviewing mortgage statements. The o/s bal is previous balance minus repayment. I would have thought the new o/s bal would be previous bal minus repayment add back the monthly interest.

Please comment on example to show me where my thinking is flawed

Term 10 years
Loan amount 100,000
i/r 4%
monthly repayment 1,012

after 6 montly payments I would say the o/s bal is 95,891, but UB mortgage statement would be 93,928( 100,000 - 6 x 1,012)

UB redemption value might be different but when you only have statement it is hard to keep tabs on UB!!


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## kcb

Will we have the same problem this time with Ulster Bank? Or will they do the right thing and pass on the rate decrease?


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## rameire

kcb said:


> Will we have the same problem this time with Ulster Bank? Or will they do the right thing and pass on the rate decrease?


 
im sure they will do it properly and quickly this time, 
some people will have their rates change on 17th dec, others 20th of dec and the rest on the 1st jan


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## kcb

I havent done the sums yet but it looks as though I did not get the two decreases in my Dec 1st mortgage payment, just the October one.

Should I have expected both?


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## PaddyW

I just read this morning that Ulster Bank will NOT be passing on the full decrease, just 0.5%. That includes First Active as well.


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## rameire

PaddyW said:


> I just read this morning that Ulster Bank will NOT be passing on the full decrease, just 0.5%. That includes First Active as well.


 
applies to variable only


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