# Can management company withhold access to buidling



## allie12 (28 Mar 2013)

I am just wondering if the management company can refuse you a copy of fob, that is the only way of accessing your building. Due to a few personal reasons our management fees have fallen behind-we are hoping to be up to date by year end but the management company are refusing to allow me to get a fob that will give me access to my building! Surely this is not legal, (I will pay for the fob).


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## Vanessa (28 Mar 2013)

I have heard of management companies doing this as a tactic to get arrears of fees paid e.g threatening clamping of cars parked in spaces where the owner hasnt paid the fees. I would say that they are entitled to. However if a person has spoken with them and come to some arrangement e'g pay by agreed installments etc it might be resolved. The worst thing to do is to ignore the management company


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## lantus (28 Mar 2013)

allie12 said:


> I am just wondering if the management company can refuse you a copy of fob, that is the only way of accessing your building. Due to a few personal reasons our management fees have fallen behind-we are hoping to be up to date by year end but the management company are refusing to allow me to get a fob that will give me access to my building! Surely this is not legal, (I will pay for the fob).


 
There was a very similar issue on boards.ie recently as well. The OMC does generally have a legal right to withold services if members break the terms of the lease and dont pay service fee's. Thats hardly comforting if you can't get in.

As Vanessa said sit down and talk to your company. Explain what you can afford, how you are going to do it and how long it will take. That you are comitted to paying the fees and you recognise their importance. Best to talk to the Directors rather than the Agents. If you are genuine in your intentions and show consistent payment through say a standing order arrangement then there shouldn't be any reason why you should not have a fob issued. Best of luck.


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## burmo (28 Mar 2013)

Interesting... a landlord couldn't deny entrance or there would be an issue.


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## shesells (28 Mar 2013)

burmo said:


> Interesting... a landlord couldn't deny entrance or there would be an issue.



A management company can deny access to common areas to unit owners who have failed to comply with their legal obligations to pay management fees. If that unit is rented out it becomes an issue between the tenant and the unit owner. The tenant would have a case against the landlord but has no right to any answers/assistance from the management company.


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## Luternau (10 May 2013)

A Mgt Co. cannot deny you access to your property-its uncostitutitional as far as I know. In a similar  sanction on debtors the Mgt Co in a Dublin development threatened to or did cut off electricity to the units with unpaid service charges. The Mgt Co held that as the ducts carrying the cables were common areas owned by the company debtors could not or should not benefit from them and they could turn off services to debtor units.

The Commission for Energy Regulation got involved and as far as I can recall, the action of the Mgt Company was not allowed to happen.

I do not believe a Management Company can deny access to property-that is not their remit and they would be leaving themselves open to legal action if they did. Clamping debtors cars or refusing them permits etc is permissable so long as the parking easement is provided by way of a licence to park-rather than a lease. Open to correction on that!


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## shesells (10 May 2013)

But it's not your property? It's the management company's property to which you've purchased a long term lease. To access a shared entrance apartment you would have to go via common areas which are also the property of the management company.

Withdrawal of access to common areas would be an extreme measure for any management company to take and I can't see it as anything other than a last resort where fees are seriously in arrears.


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## Luternau (10 May 2013)

shesells said:


> But it's not your property? It's the management company's property to which you've purchased a long term lease. To access a shared entrance apartment you would have to go via common areas which are also the property of the management company.
> 
> Withdrawal of access to common areas would be an extreme measure for any management company to take and I can't see it as anything other than a last resort where fees are seriously in arrears.



I agree that locking out a tenant would be an extreme action, but its not constitutional. The individual has a constitutional right to access their property and the Management Company can deny access to common areas at their peril. 

Given that there are loads of peope in serious arrears on apt service charges-how many people have come on here saying they were locked out? Or phoned Joe Duffy? Its not happening because it would land the OMC in a world of legal trouble.


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## shesells (10 May 2013)

But again I say it's not their property? It's management company property, you don't buy an apartment you lease it. The ultimate sanction open to the management company is to get an order which terminates that lease and takes control of the unit again. Never heard of it happening but I know it's written into most leases.


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## Luternau (10 May 2013)

Persons living in Apts may be tenants of the OMC-but they own the asset that is their own unit. Its not the property of the OMC-thats a key difference. The OMC may have powers over the common areas but these must not impinge on the tenants right to peaceful and normal enjoyment of their property. 

What you are saying may be provided for in a lease but that does not mean that its easily done.  (Most of those leases are so generic, poorly thoughtout, biased in favour of the OMC that they are in themselves a legal minefield) If what you say is possible, I look forward to the day that an OMC evicts someone or restricts access in such a way that it renders them homeless and so will the solicitors!


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## Time (10 May 2013)

Paper has never refused ink. Just because it is written down does not make it legal or enforceable.


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## Luternau (10 May 2013)

^^^^Agreed^^^^


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## markpb (11 May 2013)

Luternau said:


> Persons living in Apts may be tenants of the OMC-but they own the asset that is their own unit. Its not the property of the OMC-thats a key difference. The OMC may have powers over the common areas but these must not impinge on the tenants right to peaceful and normal enjoyment of their property.



That's not true. An apartment owner leases their apartment from the OMC on a long term lease, nothing more. I suspect that you could argue that the long term lease amounts to property ownership/rights though so I'm not sure any court would stand over an OMC terminating a lease.


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## liaconn (3 Sep 2013)

Surely if you own the deeds to the apartment then it is your property?


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## shesells (3 Sep 2013)

Unless your apartment is a free standing granny flat type structure then it is almost impossible to own an apartment. You "buy" a long term lease, mine was 1,000 years. My sitting room floor is my neighbour's ceiling, the roof that's over my apartment is the same roof as is over several other apartments. So who owns what?

You basically own the space in the apartment that's filled with air, along with any non-shared doors and windows. If you have a patio or balcony you will have an exclusive license for these.


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## Mr. C.J.H. (15 Nov 2013)

The 'owner' of an apartment holds his/her title by way of a long leasehold interest e.g. 999 years or more. The leasehold interest really only covers the box or shell of the apartment i.e. the surfaces of the walls, floors and ceilings. Any structural or load bearing walls form part of the reserved property and are owned by the management company. 

As part of the lease each apartment owner is granted certain easements, rights and privileges such as the right to pass over the internal and external common areas to access the apartment. However, all of the easements, rights and privileges are invariably stated in the lease to be subject to and conditional upon:


(a) The owner being a member of the management company, and;

(b) The owner complying with the covenants, obligations, agreements, stipulations and restrictions on his part in the lease (the most important one obviously being the obligation to pay a service charge).

Therefore strictly speaking under the terms of the lease a management company is within its rights to deny non-paying owners the services, easements, rights and priviliges contained in the lease, including the right to pass over the common areas. However, most management company exercise such rights sparingly and only as a last resort when other debt recovery strategies have failed to deliver the desired results.


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