# Three Properties, Three Offspring.....Signover or not?



## Lottowinner (11 Jun 2010)

My folks who are still alive, have three properties (including the PPR) which are all in their name. My folks are in their early 60's. The three offspring (including me) dont have any assets other than some savings. Would it be more advantageous to sign over the properties to the offspring now ? or wait till they have passed (The Will states all assets to to be split three ways)on ?

One advantage I can see, is that if one or both needed to go into a nursing home no "liability" would arise as they no longer own any property (It needs to be signed over 5 years before application for the Fairdeal scheme)


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## Padraigb (11 Jun 2010)

It might be to your advantage; it might not be to theirs.


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## Vanilla (11 Jun 2010)

PadraigB has the moral aspect in a nutshell. I would never advise a client such as your parents to sign over their assets to their children during their lifetime.

And tax wise, a gift during their lifetime exposes them to a CGT risk, not for the PPR but for the other two properties, and exposes the child to stamp duty on the transfer- neither of these two taxes are payable on an inheritance.

A gift has a very very small, advantage for tax in relation to CAT but that is the small gift exemption of €3000 which can be availed of by the child- so is hardly worth talking about.

However it is worth exploring it just to see the tax advantages/disadvantages and the risk to their assets if they need nursing home care, so no harm in them talking to a tax adviser if they want to.

Personally though, ( and it's only an opinion) I think the fair deal scheme really is a fair deal- and I believe that people should contribute towards nursing home care costs if they have assets built up during their lifetime which allow them to do this.


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## Pat Bateman (11 Jun 2010)

Given the fact that you guys don't own any property, there may be scope to eliminate any gift tax on the transfer of the properties.

Essentially, if you (or your siblings) live in the relevant property for the 3 years prior to the gift and the 6 years afterwards, the transfer should be exempt from gift tax.

The donor should also have owned the property for the 3 years prior to the gift (subject to certain concessions in relation to "replacement property").

In relation to stamp duty arising on such a transfer, consanguinity relief (i.e. 50% relief) should apply.

Before getting too excited however, you should note that CGT (calculated at market value) would more than likely arise on the disposal(s).

If it's an idea that your folks would want to explore, they should seek professional advice.


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## Lottowinner (11 Jun 2010)

Thanks for the advice and opinions, I will definitely advise them to check out further with a Tax Adviser. On the Fairdeal scheme deal above, I whole heartly agree on peolpe paying something for care, but I have seen in the past peolpe who could afford to pay something, paying nothing by being "sly/clever" with the whole ownership thing and the tax payer picking up the bill for the nursing home care..Gets me a bit annoyed....


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## Jimmyjoe (12 Jun 2010)

IMHO, basing it entirely on my own parents, who're in their late 60's, and are currently travelling the world in a motorhome... you're a few years too early to suggest such a dastardly scheme...

But, if you do wish to suggest it, you should consider that they should have the right to live in each and every one of those houses, for life (another ~ 30 years), and that during that time, a condition of the gift, should be that it cannot be sold or mortgaged, in their lifetime.

This will have the effect, of protecting the assets that they worked for, and also reduce the gift value, that you may now receive, as it has conditions attached...


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## Marietta (12 Jun 2010)

Lottowinner said:


> My folks who are still alive, have three properties (including the PPR) which are all in their name. My folks are in their early 60's. The three offspring (including me) dont have any assets other than some savings. Would it be more advantageous to sign over the properties to the offspring now ? or wait till they have passed (The Will states all assets to to be split three ways)on ?
> 
> One advantage I can see, is that if one or both needed to go into a nursing home no "liability" would arise as they no longer own any property (It needs to be signed over 5 years before application for the Fairdeal scheme)


 

Your parents are only in their early 60's and with God's help have many years ahead of them to enjoy the fruits of their labour.  Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to go out and gather your own assets


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## Lottowinner (15 Jun 2010)

Good Advice Marietta! I think I'll do that! If it wasnt for those pesky kids I would have nearly got away with it!


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