# How much relative to income do you spend on car purchase?



## JerryA

This may seem a strange question, but relative to ones annual salary what would you spend to purchase a new car?

Why do I ask?
I am fortunate to have a very good income and house issues well sorted, but it wrecks my head to give 70K for a 5 series/ A6/ whatever. Especially as these cars do not really feel that “special”

So I want to get a feel for what’s a "normal" spend.

Is everyone driving a 520 on 150K+Euro, driving a 730d on x-hundred thousand euro /year??

Any thoughts on the wisdom a one or 2 year old 730D. These have lost a huge chunk of value in the first year or 2 and usually have < 20K miles. Anyone here running one? Is it a bottomless pit in running costs?

I do about 15 to 20k business miles per year, but have the car privately. (Self-employed)
It's against my nature to spend excessive amounts on motoring, but I like my comfort as much as the next fella...

Edited
Absolutly fair comment by MoneyMan.
What I was really asking is what _*other people*_ consider a reasonable spend relative to income
Re my income, I financially very secure by normal standards, and have income>>200k with minimal expenses (old enough/ lucky enough/ sad enough/ to buy a home in a good area as a young fella 15 years ago)
It's not to impress anyone (least of all a client), just for comfort and safety.


----------



## money man

Gerry A, do you not think thats a really difficult question to answer for someone other than yourself? Im sure that this is dependent on your overall financial situation and factors such as:

age
pension arrangements
stability of your income
being self employed do you believe you need an exclusive car like the 7 series for your clients benefit? or is it purely for your own comfort?
disposable income

Also we know what the price of the car is but not having a clue what your earnings are how could someone advise you? 
I have a certain amount of money in my pocket....could i buy a really good computer?


----------



## ClubMan

JerryA said:
			
		

> but it wrecks my head to give 70K for a 5 series/ A6/ whatever. Especially as these cars do not really feel that “special”


So don't! Buy the car that you can afford and that suits your overall needs. It doesn't have to be new. It definitely doesn't have to be fancy.


----------



## euroDilbert

I don't think there is a 'normal' amount. I would guess that plenty of people buy more expensive cars than they should (in terms of affordability).

What I would do is 

(a) Decide what the car is for i.e. just A->B, people/goods mover, prestige, long-distance driving etc.

(b) Pick one that meets the above. If you're actually interested in cars, and have the cash - then you might go for a better car than you actually 'need'. 
When I was based in the UK, I had a large powerful car because I did lots of long-distance motorway driving and felt I needed the comfort.
Back here, I mainly use the DART, and have a small reliable one - 12k miles in 4 years.

I agree with Clubman - don't spend it unless you need to (although I could think 'need' might be extended to cover enthusiasm for a particular make/model or just having a more interesting car)


----------



## xavier

If you take it that average people earning the average industrial wage are buying Corollas and Meganes which cost upwards of 3/4 their yearly earnings then you my boy should be looking at a Continental GT.

To answer your question seriously I would suggest that an early noughties S class Merc for under 30k would fit the bill. Plenty of style, safety and image for the same price as a brand new 1.6 Audi A3. 40k cheaper than a 520 and twice the class.


----------



## Eurofan

Would have to work out a percentage (it's not much though) but i've long been an advocate of buying prestige motors in the 3-5 year bracket. You allow someone else to take the major depreciation hit while getting any major problems sorted out under warranty.

I'd never bother brining my car to a main dealer. Most work i'll do myself and there's quite a few very experienced independents around who are more than qualified to handle the cars while doing so at a fraction of the cost of the main dealers.

In your bracket Jerry you have a wide range of options, is comfort purely your concern or is the driving experience important too?

A two or three year old 7-series is excellent value (particularly from the UK where there's a vastly better selection) but these are big cars. Unless you regularly carry adults in the back seats I'd look more carefully at the 5-series.

I'd recommend automatic and diesel for a nice combination of range and relaxing driving.

Something like [broken link removed] would be ideal and will likely go for around gbp£22-24k, add another €12k or so vrt and it would be a lovely option but a huge saving from new.

For something a little different Vw Phaetons are astonishly cheap now and ludicrously well equiped (again though you'll have to go to the UK).


----------



## JerryA

Eurofan said:
			
		

> I'd recommend automatic and diesel for a nice combination of range and relaxing driving.
> 
> Something like [broken link removed] would be ideal and will likely go for around gbp£22-24k, add another €12k or so vrt and it would be a lovely option but a huge saving from new.
> 
> For something a little different Vw Phaetons are astonishly cheap now and ludicrously well equiped (again though you'll have to go to the UK).


 
Good points EuroFan
I guess long distance comfort is No.1, Auto & Diesel is a foregone conclusion. I have some experience of current 530d and it's fine but IMHO not special inside, and outside is no oil painting.
I had indeed considered VW Phaeton.
See this link
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=443794

About Eu 115K last year, now ~60K.

Anyone driven one??


----------



## kane3000

Hi Jerry,

You can order a 5 series with so many different interior configurations that you would find one to suit your comfort/luxury level.

Having just bought a new 530 (petrol), I can say that it is a fantastic machine, it handles and feels very refined indeed, I think it is quite a luxurious vehicle in non-standard guise.

Relative to salary, I didn't really choose on that parameter, I don't know what the norm is - I suppose if you have a big wad of cash spend a relative percentage of it on your car. Honestly I chose on need and brand - I have only ever bought BMWs and I have a wife and small children with car-seats and luggage, and I am too young for a 7 series


----------



## Eurofan

Have to say i prefer the 5-series myself (but driving a 3 at the moment) not for badge reasons but purely because it's got the right combination of comfort and driving enjoyment for me. Granted it's not terribly special inside though, perhaps it's worth including the Jaguar S-Type in the list? With a light shade of walnut and ivory leather i always thought the Jags felt very refined inside. Something like the following although the version with satnav is more attractive as it also serves to reduce clutter on the dash. 

The Phaeton would be a fantasic choice, VW went to lengths to establish the car as a feasible competitor in this league. The example you picked out though is very overpriced. Better 05 examples in the UK are running less than GBP£28k (€42k very rounded up) with about €18k vrt makes that car a good €10k overvalued in my honest opinion.

[edited to add, if you'd be prepared to consider a non-diesel your options would be somewhat expanded to more exotic choices such as the lovely Maserati Quattroporte, i'm almost sure 04 examples could be sourced for less than €100k landed in Dublin. Have a look at [broken link removed]
and


----------



## nt00deep

Just on the money front, what I'd spend in my circumstances doesn't matter, but in your circumstances I would be spending 6-7k per year on depreciation.  I'll leave it to the motoring experts to translate that into make / model, but can't be too far from relatively new 530d territory.


----------



## markowitzman

being self employed are you depreciating the car year on year against trading profits?


----------



## nt00deep

Nope, just using the term 'depreciation' in the non-accounting sense.  In JerryA's circumstances I would be '_spending_' 6-7k on annual loss in value


----------



## purplealien

Buy a toyota - cheap and reliable!


----------



## JerryA

Eurofan said:
			
		

> The Phaeton would be a fantasic choice, . The example you picked out though is very overpriced. Better 05 examples in the UK are running less than GBP£28k (€42k very rounded up) with about €18k vrt makes that car a good €10k overvalued in my honest opinion.
> 
> [edited to add, if you'd be prepared to consider a non-diesel your options would be somewhat expanded to more exotic choices such as the lovely Maserati Quattroporte, i'm almost sure 04 examples could be sourced for less than €100k landed in Dublin.


 
Maserati would be the ultimate, someone up the road where I live got a new one last year. Unfortunatly I did not know him.... Running costs for 20K business miles would be scary:-(

Re getting VW Phateon in UK, I would be somewhat cautions on warranty issues on such a complex machine. One would need to allow a fair few K€ to cover potentail warranty issues. Does a VW warranty transfer? I don't think so as it's MDL who distribute here.
For sure I will probably look around for a 18mth old low mileage car that has lost 15K from new.
It has to be a better bet that spending personal cash on a 70K car. WIll probably have to comprimise on colour, but for the saving it's probably worthwhile.
While the resources are easily there to purchase , it's not a huge business and one can never really see the future.. 10/ 20K now may seem like a lot of money in a few years !


----------



## NHG

My idea of luxury is an ML270 AMG - fab to drive! The Lexus 220d if a small car is what you  fancy.


----------



## SOM42

Just a personal opinion Jerry but with your budget and relatively low annual mileage have you not considered something like a 2-4 year old Mercedes CL or SL.  You would have a huge choice in the Uk and come resale time you should not lose a huge amount.  Just my opinion I know but they ooze class and individuality compared to a 5 or 7 series BMW.


----------



## Eurofan

JerryA said:
			
		

> Re getting VW Phateon in UK, I would be somewhat cautions on warranty issues on such a complex machine. One would need to allow a fair few K€ to cover potentail warranty issues. Does a VW warranty transfer? I don't think so as it's MDL who distribute here.


Any VW garage here will be legally obliged under EU law to honor the warranty.

It's created a rather bizarre situation such that i went over to the UK two weeks ago to assist a friend purchasing an 8 month old fully loaded Volvo S40.

With the options list fully ticked all told the saving was almost €10k from new, this with a car with just over 3k miles on the clock.

The most surprising thing though is that here new Volvos come with a 2-year warranty. In the UK they come with a 3-year warranty.

Since the warranty carries he actually now owns a car with 4 months _more_ warranty than if he'd bought brand new here.

I commend your approach and attitude to spending btw, i can't think of anything that would seem to fulfill your particular requirements better than a 2 year old or so Phaeton. Although it's far from being a common car another advantage of going to the UK is choice is much better and you may not need to compromise on anything, colour included.


----------



## JerryA

*Re: How much income do you spend on car ? Part II Sanity check on VW Phaeton*

Sanity check on VW Phaeton purchase?

Was in UK during the week and took a year old Phaeton 3.0 diesel for a short drive. Incredible is the only conclusion. Initial response is that it make a BMW 730/ MB S class appear a bit basic. Absolute luxury; double glazing keeps the outside world at bay. Air suspension make speed bumps a minor issue. Seats better than business class flying (remember when that existed!!). Performance appeared more than adequate (silent diesel ~225bhp). Speed can only be determined from the speedometer. Scary.

Before I break out the cheque book, do I need a sanity check? Would this be a nightmare to run in Ireland? 
Landed cost of high spec 2005 3.0 tdi with ~10K miles about 59K euro. About equivalent to entry level 520d. 
All comments/ slagging welcome


----------



## Eurofan

*Re: How much income do you spend on car ? Part II Sanity check on VW Phaeton*



			
				JerryA said:
			
		

> Was in UK during the week and took a year old Phaeton 3.0 diesel for a short drive. Incredible is the only conclusion.




They are aren't they? As i mentioned before VW really went all-out to establish themselves as credible in this market.
 



			
				JerryA said:
			
		

> Before I break out the cheque book, do I need a sanity check? Would this be a nightmare to run in Ireland?



Not at all, wonderful choice that i wholeheartidly support... with one caveat. Intend to keep it long term.

The 3.0tdi is the best choice for overall running costs and resale value but ultimately despite VWs achievements depreciation is pretty bad since many still can't get their head around it being a 'prestige' motorcar. Minds will change as more actually experience the car (as you have done) and eventually the Phaeton and its' eventual replacement will be more established in the sector.

Truely great car though and glad you enjoyed it. If i were in your shoes i'd jump at it without hesitation but then i'd be keeping it for a good 5 years.


----------



## JerryA

*Re: How much income do you spend on car ? Part II Sanity check on VW Phaeton*



			
				Eurofan said:
			
		

> If i were in your shoes i'd jump at it without hesitation but then i'd be keeping it for a good 5 years.


 
EuroFan
Yep, I meant to say that. It would not be so much a case of buying the Phaeton as marrying it... for better for worse...etc

One would have to assume little residual in the long term, that's what some of the smart money (i.e. the really, really well-to-do)do.

 They buy a top of the range car and drive it forever ( i.e 10 years). If you do the maths on that, you can in reality run it for less that changing to the latest version of a 3 series/ A4 whatever every 3 years.

As we all know deprecation is the real killer.

Now to explain to my wife that it's not really 5.05m long.


----------



## Eurofan

*Re: How much income do you spend on car ? Part II Sanity check on VW Phaeton*

Well if it's not too premature congrats on your new motor! 

Smart choice in my opinion both financially and from a personal point of view.

Re length etc, while it's a heavy car the engine/gearbox combination means it's reasonably easy to manoeuvre around, once she drives it she'll be grand.


----------



## RainyDay

Eurofan said:
			
		

> I'd never bother brining my car to a main dealer. Most work i'll do myself and there's quite a few very experienced independents around who are more than qualified to handle the cars while doing so at a fraction of the cost of the main dealers.


You don't happen to know any independents who have the competency & equipment to handle a Lexus?


----------



## Eurofan

Rainyday, sorry for the delay in replying i've been on holidays. I don't know any specialists in Lexus per se but if you post the model number, year etc i'll ask around.

Posting on the motoring section of boards.ie would also attract some recommendations i'm sure.


----------

