# Key Post: Mortgage for site and building



## Dancork (29 Jun 2004)

Whats the difference (or is there any) between getting a mortgage for the purchase of a site and building on it and getting one simply for buying a property?. Will the banks release the funds in stages as i need them. I would intend to build immediatley after getting planning. Also am i right in saying that i can arrange the mortgage that i only pay back on whats been paid out ie only paying interest on whats been paid out a that time, for example 80K for the site. Also if I do it for less than what i got morgage approval for can I then 'not take up' the remaining funds? 

Also my brother is a qualified civil engineer. As regard;s signing off for release of funds would he be suitably qualified or would it need to be an architect?


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## guest (29 Jun 2004)

*building*

No lender (that I know of) will give you the money just to purchase land (especially without F.P.P.  We bought a site (subject to planning) and when we got our planning the mortgage company we chose were more than happy to give us a mortgage.  They paid the remainder of the site (we paid 7K as a deposit) as our first stage payment.  Then as we went along we drew down money at different stages.  Our second stage payment was when the floor was in, so you will need enough capital yourself to put the floor in.  We are still not finished yet and we still have more money to draw down.  I would advise you (as we did it) to get your mortgage on a variable rate until the house is built and you have drawn down all the money you need, that way you can get more money if you run out or hand back any money that you don't use.  With a fixed rate, you don't have that option.  In relation to an engineer signing off, you would need to ask your lender that, we got our architect to do all that for us.  Good luck with your planning.


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## Dancork (29 Jun 2004)

*building*

Thanks guest ,

Yes that would be the plan, buy a site subject to planning, and get the first payment when the planning is approved. Would hope to get a little more though to fund the building. Have 25k myself but will need more to ge the stage of the floor being down. 

Do you mind me asking how much ye are expecting to build the house for (not including site) Would 150k do it. What type/how big is it?

thanks again


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## Dancork (29 Jun 2004)

*building*

Sorry me again. would a traker mortgage offer the same flexibility (re giving some of the money back or getting more if need be) as the variable one


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## FDH (29 Jun 2004)

*Building Question for Quest Poster*

Hi "Guest".

I'm going about the same thing.  Buying a site subject to planning, and then undertaking a self build project.

I don't mean to be upfront but can you give a general breakdown of prices for each phase ?
They're is great advice out the about self builds but not alot about costings.  I know it depends on size/type/loaction of house but any average costing would be great if you could help ?

I'm in the same boat, I'm worried about the initial amount it will cost to get the project up and running, before the foundation is in and the stage payment for that can be drawn down.


Can you follow like below ? 

eg.........
----------------------------------------------------
Site Work & foundation ? 12k
BlockLaying  2 stry trad house - Material & Labour ?  10k
Carpenter - Material & Labour ?


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## guest (29 Jun 2004)

*site*

Hi DanCork,

Hoping to build house for around 100K in total.  House is 1800 sq. ft.  We are building by direct labour, which is much cheaper than a builder.  We are lucky that most of our friends are in the trade.


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## cushtie (30 Jun 2004)

*Re: Mortgage for site and building*

guest

that is a very very good price. do you mind me asking how you intend to price the materials.

ie will you get the full list of everything you need (down to the last screw) and get a a couple of builders providers to quote or will you break it down further and get seperate quotes for each seperate stage eg.  plumbling supplies, electrical supplies, blocks, Roof materials etc.

I am going to go down the road of self building (in a couple of years time) and like you alot of my friends are tradesmen so hopefully will be able to save a few bob.


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## Dancork (30 Jun 2004)

*Building*

Hi Fdh and cushtie,

FDH, where did you get all your advice about self builds, what county you building in?

Ya we hope to get a mortgage for 230 and combined with our savings gives 250. Hopefully we'll be able to use 150k of that for our house. unlike you guys dont knowmany tradesmen but hope to get it done for that price. What ye reckon. Suppose it depends on location and that but it wont be a mansion, 4 bed bungalow dormer maybe

thanks


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## FDH (30 Jun 2004)

*Building - DAN Cork*

Dan Cork,

Building in Limerick.  Well not building yet, in the process of buying a site, don't plan on building for another year or more.

There a very good book can be got in easons/ O Mahony's  "Homebond Building Guide" or something like that.  it was about 40 quid.  

I remember reading in a post that Cork Co Co have a guide to building too, I think it can be got in easons too.  

For info try the "Homes & Garden" Section in this AAM website,  the first few posts in each section contain like a FAQ, and I think there is a few old posts for self build projects in that section.  Keep looking through them.

I've a friend who is in the trade, and my brother has just completed a self-build project.  Ask around - you'de be suprised the amount of advice you can get.

Search Google using different terms.. "SelfBuild"
I search google.co.uk or .ie - can strip out all that  irrelavent American stuff.

www.selfbuild.co.uk/
www.selfbuild123.co.uk/
Google searches & good old AAM.

Cheers.


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## FDH (30 Jun 2004)

*Self Build*

Forgot to say - There are a few magazine out there 

www.Selfbuilding.ie - Corry's are an Irish/N.Ireland crowd who publish magazines.
They also arrange exhibitions (one was in millstreet about 1 month ago) where they bring in loads of different stalls with people in the trade..
(Very good).

Give them a ring, they'd be able to give you loads of advice, and their magazines are good too.


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## Dancork (30 Jun 2004)

*Thanks FDH*

Thanks FDH,

I'll look all that stuff up. To be honest we havent even staterd looking for a site yet but hope to soon and are sure thats the way we want to go so I wanna read up on it and be well informed. Since I have no friends in the trade ill need all the help i can get

Thanks again


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## guest (30 Jun 2004)

*self-build*

Hi Custie,

That's one of the perks of living in the country - it's not what you know, it's who you know.  My fiance buy bits and pieces from different hardware places for his job, so as they have got to know him, they give him good discounts.  We got what we needed at different stages.
As I said in my previous message, most of the building is done by friends/relatives who are in the building trade, i.e. brickies, roofers, plumbers so we don't have to pay labouring costs - just a few pints (mind you, we had to pay for a digger driver to dig out the site & well, a plasterer and an electrician).  Also, when we get paid at the end of each month, we put some of our own money in.


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## Patrick2008 (22 Feb 2011)

Guest,

It amazes me when people say they can build a 1800 sq.ft house for €100k. I work as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor and I have worked in industry for 15 years. I am one of the few Chartered QS's who still has a job in Ireland. I work for one of the largest Developers/house builders in Ireland and we are currently building at €85-95/sq.ft for an estate type house. Maybe you can build your house for this figure but it all depends on the design of the house, the specification, whether you will pay VAT or cash, the quality and workmanship, Energy rating, future proofing, building to latest regs etc etc. I could go on but you get the point. 

Anyway I am due to start building a house for my parents in Tipperary in a few weeks and I have budgeted €140k for a 1,764 sq.ft house, which comes in at €79/sq.ft. This figure includes VAT. The house is fairly simple in design, vernacular and traditional in design but with a contemporary look. It is very simliar to the house design example in the Cork County Council rural house design guide 2004. It was designed by a MRIAI Architect who was involved in that publication. I am aiming for an A3 BER and this is reflected in the specification and design. I have employed an Engineer and a Building performance and compliance company who will advise on airtightness, carry our BER & airtightness test etc. 

Type of construction is masonry, loads of insulation, HRV, solar panels, aluclad windows, Cupa R5 spanish slate, white oak doors etc. I won't go into all the details here but I have basically allowed for a fairly decent spec. PC sums for kitchens and wardrobes and basc landscaping. It also includes for direct expenses such as Engineer, Airtightness/BER specialist, financial contribtions of €3.5k to council, ESB connection fee and self build insurance. I have not included for site cost as my parents own the site, inflation, finance costs, loose furniture, wall and floor tiling, ironmongory and sanitaryware supply, fireplace and stove supply and fit. These will be paid for seperately. 

Anyway my point is make sure you know what is included in your €100k budget and whilst I appreciate you are trying to save money, please employ a competent Architect or Engineer, an airtightness specialist who can also do the BER for you. Dont cut corners on professional advice.

As the Canadians say. "Build right, Build airtight". You will not achieve this as €55/sq.ft.


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## Patrick2008 (22 Feb 2011)

I would also like to add that even though labour rates have come down in the past 2 years material prices are going up. e.g Timber prices had fallen 34% over the past 15 months up to Sept 2010 but have since increased by 18-20% and are continuing to increase due to the fact that Irih merchants did not hold large quantities in stock and there is demand for timber in the UK and may timber mills are closing down. On top of this you have the price of oil which is currently tradig at €105/barrell and we all know the effects of what is happening in North Africa and the Middle East will have on oil prices.

You also have to keep in mind that if you go down the self build route you will be paying for materials at 21% VAT rather than 13.5% VAT for supply and fit. Keep in mind that 25% of the total build cost will be for materials.


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## Leo (22 Feb 2011)

Patrick2008 said:


> Guest,
> 
> It amazes me when people say they can build a 1800 sq.ft house for €100k.


 
You do realise that post is nearly 7 years old at this stage???


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## onq (22 Feb 2011)

That was my reaction too Leo, after seeing a spate of thread re-enlivened by that new "landscape" chap.

However Patrick has been around for a while and seems to to be a qualified, experienced and competent professional giving up-to-the-minute costings.

His comment on VAT rates for self-builders is something that I hadn't seen mentioned before in this forum and I think that his warnings about materials price rises is timely.

ONQ.

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied         upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal     action     be    taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the     matters    at     hand.


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## Leo (22 Feb 2011)

Yep, I'm not doubting the information is of value, just probably not so to that particular poster. 
Leo


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## onq (22 Feb 2011)

Yep, seven years ago is a long time to hope he's still lurking about.

Yet there are so many people out there holding the opinion that everything is coming down in price because we're in a recession and the building industry has collapsed, it does no harm to inform them to the contrary using a reliable source.

Even going on a first priciples basis, it should have been obvious that rates which may have been discounted for volume sales would push up once demand returned, since volumes are far lower now, both in terms of total tonnage and in terms of destinations.

Throwing a few trusses on the back of a half full lorry already going to Cork, for example, costs a firm a lot less than sending a lorry specially.

Still, seven years...



ONQ.

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied         upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal     action     be    taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the     matters    at     hand.


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## Patrick2008 (22 Feb 2011)

Oops. Silly me. I never looked at the date. Still I hope someone else will get some value out of my bit of advice!!!!!!


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## Troy McClure (22 Feb 2011)

Patrick
I found your post informative. Can you give a summary as a professional where the general lie of the land is on costs and materials with one off building. Someone one told me recently the price of insulation has been going up. Is this true and if so, why on earth is it?? Any other observations for someone building at the moment?
Where would you find a Airtightness/BER specialist that really know what they are at, as there seems to be alot of newbies at this trade right now?


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## tomred (3 Apr 2011)

Hi, I am also interested in this post. I have an arcitect involved in my one off build and we are beginning the tender process.

My arcitect has advised that it is not a requirement to have a QS involved in a one off hose build. I personally like the idea of haveing a QS involved as it would help prepare the budget and also help evaluate the returning quotes. Does anybody have any thoughts?

I am also giving some thought to getting a specialist involved for Airtightness?

Thanks


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## onq (4 Apr 2011)

It is not a requirement to have a QS involved, but it is advisable, because they will not only advise on tenders returned, the QS will also prepare a budget cost exeimate based on the design of the building and its fit out and he will advise on the best form of contract to use and everyone's contractual obligations. Some architects may also offer a QS service on jobs of this size and they can be better and more affordable than a QS from a background in large commercial work.

Many people forget that the basic building is only a fraction of the total cost and services and fit out works and furnishing can be over two thirds the final cost. Add to that any landscaping works or unusual drainage systems like attenuation chambers or reed bed disposal and the "afters" costs skyrocket.

Architects someitmes don't like "their" budget being bridled by such considerations but if that's the position, either they change their way or you'lll have to llose the architect and get another. The architect's role is to advise on how best to balance all the clients requirements to best achieve their vision of the final result, even if this may need to be done in stages.

WIthout trying to multiply your costs please allow me to offer a couple of other suggestions for your consideration in relation to a one-off house project.

Is advisable to have a civil and structural engineer look at the soil and the bearing strata and design the foundations and superstructure. He may also comment on how to address any groundwater problems. He may also be the registered site assessor, although architects and surveyors can also offer this service.
You can read up on these at [broken link removed] but you may already be past this stage.

Is advisable to have a mechanical and electrical engineer look at any  highly serviced house, in particular the siting and design of the MVHR  system air inlets, exhausts and routes, in relation to both limiting  fire propagation and sound transmission. He may also comment on the  sizing of pumps and how best to run UFH systems if installed. It is  specifically his role to examine and comment on the mechanical and electrical tenders and the issuing of nominated sub-contracts to the prospective tenderers.

Finally, since you are at tender stage, you should assure yourself of the competence of each contractor and nominated sub-contractor from which you are seeking tenders. I'm presuming this is your own private residence. All persons on the job still have to be competent at what they do.

Finally I strongly advise you to appoint a Main Contractor. If you have no-one acting as project manager, the task of managing the project falls to them. They are the one who must co-ordinate the site and ensure safe practices are followed and that all operatives have their safe site passes for the work they are doing, but no doubt your architect has advised on this.

If you don't appoint a main contractor OR a project manager all that mountain of work falls on your shoulders, and to be fair, most lay people simply aren't up to doing this per se, and those that are find its not easy to balance project managing their own site, doing their day job and having a home life.

Best of luck with the project and you might let us know how you get on.

ONQ.

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied    upon      as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal    action be      taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in         Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the  matters   at      hand.


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