# Is now the time to purchase a holiday home abroad?



## IsleOfMan (30 Jul 2017)

If you were to purchase a holiday home abroad where would you purchase it and why would you choose that location?

With most accounts paying little or no interest in Ireland now, with the Prize Bond fund being halved again does it make sense to use your savings to purchase a holiday home?

Would you purchase it in your name or possibly in one of your children's names etc etc.


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jul 2017)

never saw the appeal of a holiday home myself ( id get bored visiting the same place each year ) but then again i dont love the sun as much as most 

id have thought property in spain , portugal etc would have recovered quite a bit this past four years , especially the last eighteen months , spain is starting to boom and has been doing well for quite a while , from a monetary standpoint , perhaps jersey might be a good choice with the pound having weakened so much


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## noproblem (30 Jul 2017)

I know of plenty who bought homes in the sun during the boom here and I know of no one who has made anything from them. One example is Turkey which i'd imagine is and has been a total disaster, Spain is another, people finding out after they had bought that there's no title deeds, prices have totally flopped, etc, etc. Cyprus where there's been an awful swindle with title deeds and you now cannot sell, never mind that some have bought in Northern Cyprus which is Turkish rule and the properties have been built on other peoples land. Dubai is another. Oh yes, lots who still have those properties are left with them and i'd imagine their children will inherit the disaster and that's a whole new different problem.


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## Gordon Gekko (30 Jul 2017)

Just to present an alternative view, a family place in somewhere like Portugal can be fantastic. My folks split their time between here and there so it's in constant use. We use the place a lot, and so do my siblings and their kids.


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## Nordkapp (30 Jul 2017)

Like Gordon indicates, that is our future plan too. We will purchase in Portugal but we want a place that is large enough for kids and family to visit. 
Why Portugal? Current has no inheritence taxes for non-nationals. Also, I picked up a few Belvin-Franks legal books comprising France, Spain and Portugal. The book on Portugal is 1/2 the thickness of the book on Spain. Alot simpler system to buy and live (tax wise) in Portugal.
Firstly though I would advocate renting in an area before buying.


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## Gordon Gekko (30 Jul 2017)

I agree wholeheartedly with Nordkapp.

A few other points; the value of the property relative to one's overall wealth needs to be right. These aren't investments per se, so their value shouldn't be too great relative to the overall pot. One also needs to be cognisant of service charges (plus other costs) and their affordability, particularly in retirement. Access is also key; will the flavour of the month which is accessible right now via (say) Ryanair remain accessible? That's why Faro and Malaga and their environs are so attractive. And it would be foolish to ignore the opportunity cost of having capital tied up in a holiday home; plus having a holiday home can compel you to keep returning to the same place and feel guilty about broadening your horizons and going elsewhere.


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## IsleOfMan (30 Jul 2017)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Just to present an alternative view, a family place in somewhere like Portugal can be fantastic. My folks split their time between here and there so it's in constant use. We use the place a lot, and so do my siblings and their kids.


Yes. I would not be purchasing it as an investment. Rather I would be purchasing it for both myself and my wife to enjoy and also for my children. I would not want to stop travelling to other places as well as we enjoy this so much.
I have some funds just sitting there. Earning me a miserable amount of interest. I do not want to invest in equities as I have been exiting them for a while now, hence the build up of surplus funds.
I like Spain and Portugal. I also agree with choosing an area close enough to one of the major airports and with good bus or train stations for onward transport. There does not appear to be any winter flights to Majorca. So Malaga and Faro do seem great. Alcudia is a possibility. 
Nordkapp. Would you consider purchasing in one of your children's names?


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## Leper (30 Jul 2017)

See some previous posts from me pointing out the case against buying in Spain.  When I posted back then the situation obtained per Noproblem's (excellent) post above. Property prices for good property in coastal Spain are on the way back, slowly but surely but nothing like the current property bubble in Ireland or the Spanish bubble ten years ago.

Let's cut to the chase here. Most people buying in Spain do so for investment reasons i.e. renting the property out when not in use by the owners or the family. Property is relatively cheap in Spain now and perhaps if you want to invest/gamble there has been no better time. Have a look at DoneDeal and you will see the amount of Irish people looking for and renting out their holiday home. I am one such person and I have got to say that last year and in 2017 finding renters has not been so easy in years.

If you are interested in buying then visit the area in the off season and ensure you're not buying in a ghost town (where everything shuts down between Oct - May). Employ a decent solicitor to act for you and nobody else and don't use an abogado (conveyancing official). By the way the off season rental market is almost entirely to retired people from the UK. Brexit will have a say here eventually if Brexit ever happens.

I have changed my mind from my previous posts on the matter. If you are not stupid, greedy or naive there are bargains to be had now and perhaps buying in Spain is a good investment?


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## ardmacha (31 Jul 2017)

I wouldn't like to always visit the same place. However, I do know a person who had a holiday place, but who swapped this on the holiday swap market for similar residences in all sorts of other places and who visited different places as a consequence. Of course you could just rent these places.


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## SoylentGreen (31 Jul 2017)

Leper said:


> Most people buying in Spain do so for investment reasons


Not always. My brother owns a property in Spain. He travels there every second month but not in July or August. He can keep in touch with family and friends and get his Irish bills etc dealt with when he returns to Ireland every second month.
He bought himself a small car that he can park near Malaga airport in secure parking for when he returns to Ireland.
His children and their friends can use it whenever.
He would spend a fair bit on flights but he plans these months ahead and because he is flexible in his arrangements he can get a good price. He has even arranged his own garden in Ireland so that there is no grass to cut. He loves it.


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## Staple (31 Jul 2017)

We bought an apartment in Portugal in 2013 not specifically as an investment but because we loved the area and had stayed in the complex on numerous occasions and had decided that if the opportunity ever arose to buy, we would. We rent it out to the complex for a set annual rent amount based on occupancy. The rental income provides enough to cover our local rates obligations and spending money for our visits there. We could probably earn higher rental income by letting it out privately but we didn't want the hassle etc. We would try and go there about 3 times a year and would hope to spend more time there in our retirement.... However, it doesn't stop us from going to other destinations on holiday. At the moment, some great value to be had on package deals if you are flexible to get up and go.


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## Slim (31 Jul 2017)

We have this discussion every weekend when watching 'A Place in the Sun..'. I would like to buy a small place in Spain but Mrs S says she would prefer to visit more places rather than be tied to one spot. I had flights booked in about 2007 to buy a 2 bed in Murcia for€118k. I faltered and cancelled the flights. Those same apartments are now on TV selling at about €40-50k. Phew! We have friends/family who own in Spain, Portugal and Turkey, who love their places but those places come with rose tinted sunglasses whereby they skate over the charges that arise in Spain/Portugal for water, electric, waste, pool and garden maintenance when required. There is also quite a criminal element who target holiday homes, so security is an issue. They would never admit they are a bit bored by their area of choice. Incidentally, one friend could not get out of Torrevieja fast enough and ended up buying in Portugal, for tax and other reasons. That area is now heavily marketed on A Place in the Sun. I couldn't commit such a proportion of my available capital(aka life savings) to a property abroad, much and all as I would like to.

Maybe if my Bank of Ireland shares recover to levels at which I bought them?..hmm...€30 per share!


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## Cervelo (31 Jul 2017)

This is something I've been thinking about for quite sometime now, though second home would be a better discription then a holiday home for me 
But there is one issue that keeps raising it's head for me, its cheaper to rent then buy
Down in Almeria you can buy a county/village 2/3 bed house for about €50,000 but at the same time you can rent a similar house for 300/400 per month
So do you tie your money up or rent??


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## rob oyle (31 Jul 2017)

We should expect that in the medium term to long term, whenever governments finally decide that tackling our emissions substantially is necessary to meeting GHG targets, carbon taxes on air travel will increase significantly and air travel will become much more expensive relative to general inflation. Air travel is one of the worst forms of transport because of where the pollution occurs. This should mean that regular air travel becomes too expensive unless absolutely necessary. Things like this should be factored into long-term decisions like this.
Be interested to see if anyone sees this as a material risk to their investment in foreign property?


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## IsleOfMan (31 Jul 2017)

What prompted me to start this thread was the fact that the Government was reducing the prize fund for prize bonds.  I have about €220k in prize bonds at the moment.  I did a tot of my wins last night. About €1k in total for the year. A pretty poor return. I can expect this to be worse next year. I have shares in one UK. pharma company that is paying about £760 p.a in Dividends on a £16k investment. However I have had enough of the stock market and as I get older I am more interested in life's comforts than investing or gambling.

I would spend this on a second home in the sun. I have to take on board what Slim and Cervelo says above though.
I presently rent properties in Spain and Portugal. I usually travel in the months April/May and Sept/October. I pay somewhere between €400 and €500 per week plus a cleaning fee at the end of my stay. We really only need a one bed but sometimes I pay the extra for a two or three bed because the property looks good and is in a nice location. It is hassle free. 

Would I spend the months of November to March abroad. I'm not sure.

Would I like all the bills/taxes/paperwork associated with ownership. I'm not sure.


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## Nordkapp (31 Jul 2017)

Hi IsleOfMan, try a long stint and get a rent deal for 1 month or 2 months stay and weigh up the costs of renting, whether you could hack living in the same place etc.


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## Palerider (31 Jul 2017)

Friends have units in Portugal, both rent these through UK sites and cover all costs plus some profit which almost covers their personal use costs, the similarity both properties have is that they are large 2 bed and 3 beds.
They are Condos in a managed development, pools, gym etc, I am thinking of jumping in as well, I think buy the best you can in a well run development and rental income should flow, condo fees are significant.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2017)

rob oyle said:


> We should expect that in the medium term to long term, whenever governments finally decide that tackling our emissions substantially is necessary to meeting GHG targets, carbon taxes on air travel will increase significantly and air travel will become much more expensive relative to general inflation. Air travel is one of the worst forms of transport because of where the pollution occurs. This should mean that regular air travel becomes too expensive unless absolutely necessary. Things like this should be factored into long-term decisions like this.
> Be interested to see if anyone sees this as a material risk to their investment in foreign property?



while there are indeed many reasons to vote against buying a holiday home abroad , im really not sure id include this one , who knows what the future holds regarding anything but i think its very doubtful people end up travelling less by air in the next few decades


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## Gordon Gekko (31 Jul 2017)

In my view there's a greater chance that new technology makes these places more accessible.

e.g. the Hyperloop (capsules travelling at ultra high speeds through tubes; interesting technology)


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## Leper (1 Aug 2017)

Interesting that the thread was started as a result in the reduction of Prize Bonds payouts. It shows people are again thinking of making a profit and suddenly the idea of buying a non Irish holiday home kicks in again. I invested in a holiday home in the south of Spain twelve years ago just before the recession. Back then the conversations among other foreign holiday home owners in Ireland were "Are you buying just the one property; we've bought two in Spain plus a holiday home in Mayo and another in Donegal." To be honest I was nearly sucked into buying a second property (greed). The rental markets back then were buoyant. The recession came fast and furious and suddenly many were left in negative equity (including me). There were some very lean rental years over the off seasons.  But, things have picked up in coastal Spain and there are plenty of renters again, mostly retired people from the UK. This shows the importance of Brexit in the real scheme of things regarding property prices on the Costas. Very few purchasers got off lightly during the recession. Forget the twenty grand holiday homes, the resale chances are practically nil.

Cervelo made a good point above regarding such cheap rents winning over outlaying the bones of two hundred thousand euro. With  very few exceptions don't fall for the "I just bought a Spanish holiday home just for the family holidays." The days of the Wild Irish are gone and Paddy now wants profit from somewhere. Spanish property will do.

TV programmes like Holiday Home in the Sun only whet the appetite for investors/gamblers. Anything you here on such programmes should be taken with a grain of salt. Some of the presenters and participants couldn't tell the truth if they had taken truth **************************.

Know the costs before you jump into buying anywhere. Community fees, waste collection, water charges, electricity costs, internet costs, local taxes, Spanish taxes, cleaning charges, maintenance,  not to mention the percentages of  real estate agents if you use one. So let nobody think the venture is fun only, and don't believe anything from somebody who says it is.


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## IsleOfMan (1 Aug 2017)

Leper said:


> Interesting that the thread was started as a result in the reduction of Prize Bonds payouts. It shows people are again thinking of making a profit and suddenly the idea of buying a non Irish holiday home kicks in again.


 No. It was more to do with the fact that I have €220k sitting there doing nothing when I could at least have a second home abroad and enjoying it.  I would not be interested in having it "let out" either. It would be somewhere to go at the drop of a hat.

Just as a matter of interest. What are the annual charges, utilities, local taxes etc in maintaining a two bed apartment or townhouse if NOT letting it out?  I assume there would be no management fees if a townhouse was purchased on a regular street.


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## Palerider (1 Aug 2017)

I'm interested in this as a direct result of the imminent fall in my return from pb's.

I don't think it makes any sense to purchase overseas and not have the ability to at least cover costs so for me it must be well located, easy to access with all amenities, in short a condo.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2017)

think if i was wealthy  enough to own an overseas home , id chose portugal , no idea how much property costs but i imagine the cost of living is slightly lower than in neighbouring spain , visited lisbon in 2014 for five days and found it very cheap , loved that city


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## noproblem (1 Aug 2017)

I'm guessing there's annual management fees, local property tax, water fees, electricity bills, insurance, etc. When property in hot countries is not lived in there's damage like dampness, air conditioning upkeep, leaks, possible vandalism, etc. You would be well advised to have a person to repair whatever might go wrong when you're not there and they cost a few bob. Have all this in place and when you turn up after a long absence you will hopefully be going into a property that won't stink or smell and won't have any undesireables, eg, insects, flies, cockroaches in situ. Fridge, TV, beds, washing machines, balconies, etc, would need to be kept in check as well.  Anyway, enjoy.


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## Firefly (1 Aug 2017)

Not worth the hassle IMO. 

OP..for 220k you could have holidays-of-a-lifetime for the next 22 years with zero hassle. Think of all the places you could go to!


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Aug 2017)

With nothing to show at the end of it!

My own aim would have been to buy something decent in Portugal, but now it would be to buy something more modest and do some AirBnB stuff around the world.


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## Laramie (2 Aug 2017)

With the possibility of the government introducing Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the family home it might make sense to sell up now, purchase a home abroad and rent out a small property here?


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Aug 2017)

Laramie said:


> With the possibility of the government introducing Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the family home it might make sense to sell up now, purchase a home abroad and rent out a small property here?



Has anyone a link to this story?

I heard it mentioned on Newstalk this morning.


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## Cervelo (2 Aug 2017)

Laramie said:


> With the possibility of the government introducing Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the family home it might make sense to sell up now, purchase a home abroad and rent out a small property here?


 afaik this is what happens in Spain, If you sell the family home you pay tax unless you buy another home and I think they give you nine months to complete the transaction


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## IsleOfMan (2 Aug 2017)

Cervelo said:


> afaik this is what happens in Spain, If you sell the family home you pay tax unless you buy another home and I think they give you nine months to complete the transaction


Well you can bet the bit about "unless you buy another home" would be left out by the Irish Government. Every situation would be taxed.


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## mtk (2 Aug 2017)

Laramie said:


> With the possibility of the government introducing Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the family home it might make sense to sell up now, purchase a home abroad and rent out a small property here?



wow that would kill any flow of properties onto market , 

cannot see them doing it for a different reason - doing it would be a huge vote loser


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## Early Riser (2 Aug 2017)

mtk said:


> wow that would kill any flow of properties onto market ,
> 
> cannot see them doing it for a different reason - doing it would be a huge vote loser



I can't see it happening either. But what might be the effect on the market if they gave a lead in time - say 3 years?


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## IsleOfMan (2 Aug 2017)

Or...This is the scare tactic to get everyone talking about it while they increase property taxes. Weren't you lucky type of thing.

Just like €1 on a packet of cigarettes and every smoker says Phew! when they "only" go up by 50c. in the budget.


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## mtk (2 Aug 2017)

Early Riser said:


> I can't see it happening either. But what might be the effect on the market if they gave a lead in time - say 3 years?


Interesting yes I guess it would accelerate flow of property in those 3 years  .....but still kill government  politically


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## jjm (2 Aug 2017)

[QUOTE="mtk, .but still kill government  politically[/QUOTE]
There must be a % of the Irish people who will vote for Good Government ,Who represents the people who paid there water charges there must be at least 30 to 40% of the Irish people who are looking for Leadership in a Government who will Do what is best for the Country ,


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## Firefly (2 Aug 2017)

IsleOfMan said:


> Or...This is the scare tactic to get everyone talking about it while they increase property taxes. Weren't you lucky type of thing.
> 
> Just like €1 on a packet of cigarettes and every smoker says Phew! when they "only" go up by 50c. in the budget.



Well, smokers always cough up at the budget don't they


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## noproblem (2 Aug 2017)

jjm said:


> [QUOTE="mtk, .but still kill government  politically


There must be a % of the Irish people who will vote for Good Government ,Who represents the people who paid there water charges there must be at least 30 to 40% of the Irish people who are looking for Leadership in a Government who will Do what is best for the Country ,[/QUOTE]

 The supposed leader we have was not elected and his own people overwhelmingly rejected him.  Still, not to worry, "HE" thinks he's the chosen one and sure that's all that matters anymore.


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## jjm (2 Aug 2017)

noproblem said:


> There must be a % of the Irish people who will vote for Good Government ,Who represents the people who paid there water charges there must be at least 30 to 40% of the Irish people who are looking for Leadership in a Government who will Do what is best for the Country ,



The supposed leader we have was not elected and his own people overwhelmingly rejected him.  Still, not to worry, "HE" thinks he's the chosen one and sure that's all that matters anymore.[/QUOTE]

The sad part is most of the people who elected him have more in common with Paul Murphy and people before profit he has thrown in the towel and the grass roots supporters in FG and the 60%  people from other parties who supported and respect good Government will be getting there support back in the post before the end of year (some leadership )FG should have stuck to there guns and questioned why FF and SF did not  formed a government  along with the other TDs who wanted to get rid of water charges and do so,


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## Palerider (2 Aug 2017)

Algarve is a lot more expensive than I imagined fora  2 bed in a good community with pool, budget of at least €200k required..


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## Leper (3 Aug 2017)

Buying holiday property in Spain,Portugal, etc is much like buying in Ireland.

Rule No. 1:- Ensure you can re-sell if necessary. Forget the bargain repossessions, those bargains for €50K, the apartments being sold on Sundays in Irish hotels etc. You're talking minimum €150K.

Rule No. 2:- Know the local taxes, maintenance, electricity, cleaning, advertising, insurance, water, bin, public lighting, letting agents, community fees. In parts of Spain you are even taxed on your own underground parking space. So you don't use the waste collection. Too bad, you'll have to pay the yearly charge anyway. "But, that couldn't be Lep" - Yes, it is. By the way be prepared to pay €30 per month for banking facilities.

Rule No. 3:- Know your rental market. No problem renting during July/August. June is easy enough too along with September. But, October - May inclusive is the challenge. There are no too many holidaying in those eight months. "But, Lep, there's Easter and the mid-terms!" Yeah! and many teachers, etc have places abroad of their own in Spain. What's left? Retired Brits and long may they last. Monthly off season rentals run at €600 approx.
A few lean years and you are happy to rent very cheaply. An empty apartment costs. The money is in repeat renters.

Rule No. 4:- Irrespective of what you read above most holiday home owners don't want to lose on the deal. Newsflash! It's not all gain and the money seldom rolls one way. Be prepared to see your property devalue by about 30% on any year on year. I have loads of neighbours in Spain from Ireland who wanted just a holiday home for the family. Strange though, they're always in contact for my excess renters.

Rule No. 5:- Much of your money gets tied up, so your life savings and another mortgage commitment ensure your cash flow is not as good as it was.

Rule No. 6:- Most of what you hear on Holiday Homes in the Sun type of Property Sales programmes is rubbish. Television presenters are not known for letting truth get in the way of what they can earn. I'm including Irish presenters here.

Rule No. 7:- This should be Rule No. 1. Employ a solicitor to act solely for you. Don't share with the vendor's or estate agent solicitor.

Rule No. 8:- Don't think your fellow golf club members will rent from you. Neither will your friends. Don't bank on promises.

Rule No. 9:- Live in the resort/village/town for at least a month in the off season before you buy.

Rule No. 10:- Sean the Spaniard probably will never be able to afford to purchase an apartment. Don't think the local Spanish politicians will represent your whinges anywhere.

If you don't follow all of the rules above and buy a holiday home abroad, sooner or later you'll bear the brunt. You have been warned.


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## Cervelo (3 Aug 2017)

Good advice there Lep but I would add one more rule,

Rule No 11:- Dont think of the property as a holiday home for a couple of weeks every year but more of a second home that you could live in for longer periods of time.
It might seem great now to buy a place in a complex with pools, bars and shops all within earshot while you have young kids but is that property going to be suitable for you when the kids aren't around.


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## galway_blow_in (3 Aug 2017)

it sounds like less of an investment and more of a lifestyle purchase ( nothing wrong with that ) , if you consider the amount of capital needed , were you to invest that money in the stock market and leave it there for ten or twenty years , id imagine the return would be greater , if the difference is great enough to cover the cost of a holiday each year wherever you choose , id be of the view buying a holiday home is not a great investment , different story if you want a home away from home and as the years go by , intend to spend more and more time in a sunnier climate 

like i said i think its a lifestyle purchase primarily


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## SDMXTWO (25 Sep 2017)

I have often looked at local properties on Portuguese / Spanish real estate. Plenty 1/2 bed little apartments in the towns many with a sea view and within walking distance to beach. Perfect if you like sun, good cheap food and would like to have a place to go and leave to your kids. I'm out of work and have 20K+ in savings which will just wittle away in this hi cost damp country. Is it worth (knowing the area) to go for one of these. This is how it would work out roughly, But would an Irish bank loan you / can you get a european loan. Is this dead in the water ? like to hear your views. Or what is the best to do with 20k before it's gone? Thanks.

Total cost 63.310 €
Apart cost 50'000 €

Deposit 19.000 €
Required:39.490 €
Interést :4.819 €
Term 20yrs
Rate 1,20%
Monthly 184€


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## Slim (25 Sep 2017)

Interesting proposition. How would you get a mortgage/unsecured loan if you're out of work? How would it be at 1.2%?


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## SDMXTWO (25 Sep 2017)

Well Slim that is the problem here, probably not get a mortgage in Ireland. The figures above are from a European bank and they probably have the same lending criteria. 20K is not a lot of cash but what other options are there other than buy a small apt in the sun for future use. Credit union would give a loan maybe but that would be higher %.


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## Palerider (25 Sep 2017)

You will need repayment capacity to get a loan anywhere,


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## Leper (25 Sep 2017)

The Glory Days are back . . . somebody who is unemployed looking to purchase a holiday home abroad.


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## Sarenco (25 Sep 2017)

Yup.  And a discussion on another thread about buying in Belfast.

It's all starting to sound very 2006 around these parts...


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## galway_blow_in (25 Sep 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Yup.  And a discussion on another thread about buying in Belfast.
> 
> It's all starting to sound very 2006 around these parts...





SDMXTWO said:


> I have often looked at local properties on Portuguese / Spanish real estate. Plenty 1/2 bed little apartments in the towns many with a sea view and within walking distance to beach. Perfect if you like sun, good cheap food and would like to have a place to go and leave to your kids. I'm out of work and have 20K+ in savings which will just wittle away in this hi cost damp country. Is it worth (knowing the area) to go for one of these. This is how it would work out roughly, But would an Irish bank loan you / can you get a european loan. Is this dead in the water ? like to hear your views. Or what is the best to do with 20k before it's gone? Thanks.
> 
> Total cost 63.310 €
> Apart cost 50'000 €
> ...




was in majorca a few weeks ago and prices are anything but cheap on that island , place has more real estate office units than coffee shops , spain seems to be worse for boom bust than we are , property was everywhere and a huge amount of refurbishment going on


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## SDMXTWO (30 Sep 2017)

Leper said:


> The Glory Days are back . . . somebody who is unemployed looking to purchase a holiday home abroad.


More of a, I can't afford to live here and own a sellable house, so no need to be too cynical. People should wake up to the fact that they just live to pay a mortgage and are completely owned by debt. I would'nt exactly class that as a great life.


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## Cervelo (30 Sep 2017)

But you will still need employment to get a mortgage from a bank and an income to live in Spain or is the "Sellable House" the answer to all your problems


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## noproblem (30 Sep 2017)

SDMXTWO said:


> I have often looked at local properties on Portuguese / Spanish real estate. Plenty 1/2 bed little apartments in the towns many with a sea view and within walking distance to beach. Perfect if you like sun, good cheap food and would like to have a place to go and leave to your kids. I'm out of work and have 20K+ in savings which will just wittle away in this hi cost damp country. Is it worth (knowing the area) to go for one of these. This is how it would work out roughly, But would an Irish bank loan you / can you get a european loan. Is this dead in the water ? like to hear your views. Or what is the best to do with 20k before it's gone? Thanks.
> 
> Total cost 63.310 €
> Apart cost 50'000 €
> ...



Don't forget to add on yearly insurance, water bills, sewerage bills, electricity bills, wear and tear, management fees, security and vandalism costs, shared complex fees if other apartments are on the complex, eg, lifts, swimmimg pool, lighting, etc, and i'm sure there's a few that I haven't mentioned.  These are all very real, have to be paid and cost hard earned cash.


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## postman pat (1 Oct 2017)

Just to add... If you have money you want to invest,there are plenty funds,shares etc to put your money into,
If you want a place to go on holidays,phone Falcon (TUI) Mercury Direct etc.
NEVER mix the two,its just not a good idea because I have been that soldier!

  Pat


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## Leper (2 Oct 2017)

The financial state of Ireland and Spain (and even Bulgaria etc) is changing favourably by the year. It  could not have got much worse than at the start of the recession. Let's face it the main argument for purchasing a holiday home in sunnier climes is our weather and most of us would like to spend several months in coastal Med countries (mainly Spain) during Irish winters. Many craved retirement so that the autumn of our lives could be spent in warmer regions. Therefore, those of us with mortgages paid off in our forties (we Irish used to get married in our early 20's, nowadays the blushing bride is in her late 30's facing into paying a mortgage to her mid/late 60's)the next major investment appeared to be the south of Spain. Many of us jumped at the idea as we thought property values would never decrease and there was always somebody where you worked just bought abroad. If they could do it, you could. 

You can make money investing in a holiday home abroad, but you need:- (i) much luck. (ii) a trustful person to look after and clean your holiday home. (iii) rentals in the off season i.e. mid September to end May (iv) amount of back-up money for wear-and-tear, community fees, utilities, Spanish taxes (you pay public lighting tax, even if you don't use refuse you still pay the fees etc) and a plethora of other taxes. 

What you bought for your entertainment becomes another job and you have got to spend some time every week at it, advertising, following enquiries, even replacing the washing machine from 1200 miles becomes a chore. You have to pay Spanish bills too. Lost keys by renters brings you back to trusting 3rd parties. A gobshite unable to trawl through SKY properly rings you from abroad and suddenly you're calling in the local Spanish tv company who can charge what they like. You just hope your rentals will look after these and other costs. The first guy to rent our apartment in Spain caused €1500 worth of furniture damage in a week, sang offensive rebel songs loudly and nightly from the terrace, threw a party that lasted the whole week and broke glass all over the communal lawns and to cap it off vomited down the terrace wall onto my retired neighbours underneath. I was not too popular with my Brit neighbours for some time after.

You can rent a good two bedroom holiday home in a good location in the south of Spain for around €600 per month. Why would you buy? You can rent for less, but know your Spain!


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## galway_blow_in (2 Oct 2017)

Leper said:


> The financial state of Ireland and Spain (and even Bulgaria etc) is changing favourably by the year. It  could not have got much worse than at the start of the recession. Let's face it the main argument for purchasing a holiday home in sunnier climes is our weather and most of us would like to spend several months in coastal Med countries (mainly Spain) during Irish winters. Many craved retirement so that the autumn of our lives could be spent in warmer regions. Therefore, those of us with mortgages paid off in our forties (we Irish used to get married in our early 20's, nowadays the blushing bride is in her late 30's facing into paying a mortgage to her mid/late 60's)the next major investment appeared to be the south of Spain. Many of us jumped at the idea as we thought property values would never decrease and there was always somebody where you worked just bought abroad. If they could do it, you could.
> 
> You can make money investing in a holiday home abroad, but you need:- (i) much luck. (ii) a trustful person to look after and clean your holiday home. (iii) rentals in the off season i.e. mid September to end May (iv) amount of back-up money for wear-and-tear, community fees, utilities, Spanish taxes (you pay public lighting tax, even if you don't use refuse you still pay the fees etc) and a plethora of other taxes.
> 
> ...




is housing all that cheap in spain ? , spent a week in pollenca majorca at beginning of september and i saw nothing remotely cheap , tonnes of estate agents on every street so the adds were pretty much in my face and impossible not to notice


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## noproblem (2 Oct 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> is housing all that cheap in spain ? , spent a week in pollenca majorca at beginning of september and i saw nothing remotely cheap , tonnes of estate agents on every street so the adds were pretty much in my face and impossible not to notice


That's the Balearic's you're talking about. Most here are talking about the Costa's, etc, on mainland Spain.


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## Leper (2 Oct 2017)

GBI - Rental and Purchase property on the Costas have been on an alltime low for the past ten years. Like Noproblem sated the Mallorca (Majorca) is the exception.


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## amtc (8 Oct 2017)

My aunt owns a place in the south of France. Her husband spends a lot of time there. They don't rent it out but the entire family use it. The only thing is that the flights to Nice can be curtailed giving little choice. I do recall reading an article about some area where people had bought holiday homes and then the airport closed....think was somewhere in Spain.


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## Cherished Hols (12 Nov 2017)

Don’t purchase any holiday home unless you consider it a life style change. I own a private holiday home letting website and often see owners purchasing beautiful properties  for investment, after time the novelty wears off and because they hadn’t fully engaged in the lifestyle many difficulties arise.


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## xoxoxo (12 Nov 2017)

Think that was Turkey amtc. Know someone that bought somewhere in turkey that Ryanair flew to but then they cancelled the service. Have a long trek now through London and Istanbul.


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## noproblem (12 Nov 2017)

I'd love to see anywhere in Turkey that Ryanair ever flew into? Ever! Maybe you could put up the link?


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## Murt10 (14 Nov 2017)

Havn't been on this site in a long time but here's my tuppence worth on buying a Spanish property.

When buying a 2nd hand property in Spain the Govt tax on the sale is a straight 10% of the purchase price. (I don't know what it is on new builds.)

Having said that, with the way prices are going you should be be able to make a decent return over a couple of years, epecially as you will be getting a negative return on your money from the banks after inflation.

Attached article spells out the current position on Spanish property prices.

https://murciatoday.com/contradicto...properties-are-being-snapped-up_124978-a.html

When buying also bear in mind that it's very easy to buy, but it's much harder and takes much longer to sell. Look at all the properties for sale in the estate agents , that have been for sale for a considerable time.

When selling, estate agents charge about 6% (or so I'm told)

If you are considering buying an appt, be careful as the maintenance costs (though shared) on the lifts can be enormous.

Always ask the state agent how much the annual maintenance fees are first. Don't fall in love with a property until you are fully aware of the cost. The EA may try and change the subject. Don't let him.

Unless you have a neighbor who will act as your agent, your annual holiday could quickly turn into anything but. It may quickly become a  busmans holiday. Carrefour, for example, promised me faithfully that they would deliver a new washing machine on no less than 4 separate occasions, and I had to wait in for them.

A communal pool on a small urbanization will be relatively inexpensive to maintain relative to a private pool.  It is also a great way of meeting people. Kids want to play with other kids. Some houses may have private sun terraces for sunbathing.

How easy is it to travel to your proposed purchase by public transport or is a car essential. Can you walk to the local shops and restaurants?

Property prices in seaside towns tend to be at least 30% higher than a few Kms inland (again so I'm told). Problem is that the seaside town can be a mad place during the summer, overcrowded, noisey, no parking, full restaurants and pubs etc., while in the winter the place dies a death, and a lot of rental properties, pubs and restaurants are locked up.

The inland property on the other hand may have a lot of expats living around. They will be there in the winter and keep the pubs restaurants and facilities open throughout the year. Many of these expats actually go back home during the summer because it is too hot.

All the real money is going to be spent advertising new builds. 2nd hand properties on the other hand are not expensively advertised.

2nd hand houses usually come fully furnished. OK the furniture might not be great, but you can replace it at your own convenience. The furniture you get supplied by the property developer will not necessarily be of great quality.

Finally, are you buying the property for your own use or as an investment. They are two completely different things.

This You Tuber (Matt Wilkie) has a good number of videos and on facebook on moving to and living in Spain. He is renting on La Mata on the Costa Blanca. They are worth looking at and are far more realistic than "A Place in the Sun". Some of his videos are directly related to buying holiday apartments etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Ftold605Y


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