# PTSB tracker issue .....again



## Rory_W (1 Dec 2015)

Background as follows 
In 2002 I bought a BTL

At the time they had an offer whereby BTL investors were to be treated the same as Home Owners. 

*11/01/02New package for residential property investorsIrish Permanent and TSB Bank announce package for residential property investors.


Friday 11 January 2002. *


*Friday 11 January 2002. *Irish Permanent and TSB Bank have announced two new incentives for residential property investors. The move follows changes to the stamp duty and mortgage interest relief regime for investors announced in the recent budget.

Both Irish Permanent and TSB Bank will offer new lending for investment properties at home loan rates. This move will lead to savings of 0.5% on investment property rates for new business. 

Separately both Irish Permanent and TSB Bank are increasing the maximum loan to value for investment properties from 80% to 85%.

The two changes will take effect from Monday the 28th January 2002. The package will available to business commenced over the next three months after which it will be reviewed.

Both Irish Permanent and TSB Bank will offer new lending for investment properties at home loan rates. This move will lead to savings of 0.5% on investment property rates for new business. 

Separately both Irish Permanent and TSB Bank are increasing the maximum loan to value for investment properties from 80% to 85%.

The two changes will take effect from Monday the 28th January 2002. The package will available to business commenced over the next three months after which it will be reviewed.​
loan started as a 3 year fixed rate loan @ 4.99%

2005 
Came out of fixed period
Fixed again for 5 years @ 3.79%

2010
Came out of fixed rate
Went on variable rate

I have said to PTSB that I feel i should have been offered a tracker rate. I previously called them on this and got no where. I wrote to them in 2014 and got nowhere. I wrote again in Sept and again not surprisingly PTSB disagree. 

Their points in their letter which all read well (but I am conscious that there may be relevant matters not taken on board or mentioned by them) are that
- 2002 letter of approval did not include a special condition detailing I had a contractual right to move to a tracker rate during the term of our mortgage
- they refer to the loan offer being accepted in presence of my solicitor and attach a copy of general loan conditions
- they say that tracker rates for new business was launched by PTSB on 15 Jan 2004 and that from 30 June 2006 tracker rates began to appear on rate option letters issued to existing customers on expiry of fixed rates and discounted rates periods. They say that they ceased to offer tracker mortgages to new customers on 14 July 2008 and from 31 Aug 2009 to existing customers upon expiry of a fixed rate or discounted rate period. 
- they say that in 2005 on expiry of the initial 3 year fixed period they offered a list of fixed rate options in line with bank policy. They say that as the bank had not yet started to offer tracker rates on expiry of a fixed rate period a tracker rate was not included on the form. 
- they then say that as the second fixed period of 5 years expired in 2010 that as the bank at that stage has ceased to offer tracker rates to existing customers on expiry of fixed periods (ceasing to offer this option in Aug 2009) that no tracker option was offered to me. 

They have said their letter is their final response and if I wish to take it up with the FSO.

So their letter says I have no right and due to fixing of mortgage that I fell between the cracks as I was fixed at any time a tracker could have been offered (if they accept that this option was allowed for the mortgage).

My arguments to all this would include the following points : 
- their 2002 offer to offer "home loan rates" for BTL means that once trackers became an option that trackers should have been possible for me under the loan
- even though the rate was fixed initially for 3 years and then for 5 years they should have advised me when they started to offer tracker to existing customers in expiry of fixed rate periods. I had previously written to them for redemption figures for ascertaining the cost of the fixed rate exit fee in 2003 and 2004. If PTSB had advised me in June 2006 (when they say they started offering trackers to existing customers) and before 31 Aug 2009 (when they say they stopped offering trackers to existing customers) that trackers was a possibility for existing customers coming off fixed rates (which they didn't do and in my view should have and were therefore negligent) then I could have asked for the cost of the fixed rate exit fee, paid it and then as I would be no longer on a fixed rate then be given and accept a tracker rate. 

Any thoughts or comments from anyone who is more up to speed on the PTSB issue and whether I should submit a response to FSO 

Thanks in advance


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## Rory_W (2 Dec 2015)

no comments anyone ? :-(


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## emeralds (2 Dec 2015)

Did you ever actually have a tracker mortgage?
At any stage during those years did you ask them about availing of one?


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## Sarenco (2 Dec 2015)

I'm not really sure what you are asking us.  

From what you've posted don't appear to have ever had a tracker and have no contractual right to a tracker now - everything else is surely academic.


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## Rory_W (3 Dec 2015)

never had tracker as was fixed
felt i should have been offered option of one


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## Sophrosyne (3 Dec 2015)

I don’t think that tracker mortgages were available to everyone.

I recently came across this Irish Times article from Feb 13, 2004, which suggests that they were offered at the discretion of the lender, depending on the amount borrowed and the LTV.

What is also interesting in this article is the opinion of mortgage advisers in 2004.


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## Sarenco (3 Dec 2015)

Nobody is ever required to lend money to anybody, on any terms - it's always a deal.


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## kaza (4 Dec 2015)

My loan with them was a home loan and taken out before trackers were offered. When trackers became available I contacted them and asked if trackers were an option for me (as was on SVR), they said yes and send me the paper work to move - but they did not contact me, I contacted them. 

But I think a point you are confused about is:
*even though the rate was fixed initially for 3 years and then for 5 years they should have advised me when they started to offer tracker to existing customers in expiry of fixed rate periods.*

It is not that they offered existing customer who where at that time fixed - a new terms and condition that stated they could move to a tracker on expiry of that fixed rate. People with that condition specified were on a tracker loan to start with and had the condition specified with the tracker loan that if they ever fixed for a period, at the end of that period they could revert back to their tracker. So for example I was on a tracker and had that condition specified, I fixed for a while so that condition should have been met at the end of that fixed rate period. 

There were some people who started a new tracker mortgage, and straight away chose a fixed rate - but it was still a tracker mortgage with tracker terms and conditions.


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## Rory_W (5 Dec 2015)

thank you all for comments


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