# Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving mad!



## Marathon Man (17 Mar 2009)

Am I alone in thinking that ICTU's proposed one day work stoppage on March 30th is stark raving mad?   

In all probability, the majority of those we see on the streets will be public servants.  Everyone I know working in the private sector -those that haven't (yet) lost their jobs - are battening down the hatches.  The last thing people working in industries that are in jeopardy need is to exacerbate the situation.  

I bitterly disagree with the way the Government has hit mainly soft targets in its quest for 'sharing the pain'.  I would like to see those who benefitted most from the Celtic Tiger sharing a bit more equitably - in particular I'd like to see the top bankers in sackcloth and ashes.  ..........But Work Stoppage....Pure madness.  We're in a bit of a stew...and they want to turn up the heat????

btw, Mrs MM is a public servant


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## DeeFox (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

I think it is a bit silly to strike a week before the budget.  They should at least wait until they have a fuller picture of what will be happening in the country.


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## z103 (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



> I think it is a bit silly to strike a week before the budget


This is just a warm up strike. There'll be many more strikes, and maybe riots, after the budget.


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## DerKaiser (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Marathon Man said:


> Am I alone in thinking that ICTU's proposed one day work stoppage on March 30th is stark raving mad?
> 
> In all probability, the majority of those we see on the streets will be public servants. Everyone I know working in the private sector -those that haven't (yet) lost their jobs - are battening down the hatches. The last thing people working in industries that are in jeopardy need is to exacerbate the situation.
> 
> ...


 
I cannot understand it.  A weekend protest might be acceptable but anyone going on strike is even more out of touch with reality than the Anglo directors!


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## Shawady (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Marathon Man said:


> Am I alone in thinking that ICTU's proposed one day work stoppage on March 30th is stark raving mad?


 
You are not alone. The only outcome will be that the people on strike will be down a day's pay.
I will be interested to see the results of the ballots from the different unions.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DerKaiser said:


> I cannot understand it.  A weekend protest might be acceptable but anyone going on strike is even more out of touch with reality than the Anglo directors!


 Yes, the Unions have every right to protest but they should not damage the economy any more than they have already.


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## TarfHead (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

Is it just me, but is a strike not now completely archaic/antediluvian ?

In this day and age, when the working environments and terms and conditions have been transformed, can the unions not come up with a better method of flexing their muscle than a strike ?

The 'blue flu' by the Gardai showed some element of cunning. I'm not sure if it was ever deployed, but didn't Bus Ath Cliath drivers once threaten a no fares day ? This too would have been a better approach - do your job but limit the 'damage' so that the public aren't affected.

Surely the top dog fat cats at ICTU and the rest can justify their salaries by bringing a level of intelligence and cunning to their leadership ?

I haven't been a member of a union for years.


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## DerKaiser (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



TarfHead said:


> didn't Bus Ath Cliath drivers once threaten a no fares day ?


 
That happened and went ahead alright


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



TarfHead said:


> Surely the top dog fat cats at ICTU and the rest can justify their salaries by bringing a level of intelligence and cunning to their leadership ?


 They have been in government buildings or looking out over the city from their plush offices at the top of Liberty Hall (who said the bearded brethren didn’t understand irony) for the last 10 years. They are as out of touch with ordinary people as it is possible to get.


...actually that's not fair; they could have been sitting on board of one of the state bodies/quango's part of the time.


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## Green (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> Yes, the Unions have every right to protest but they should not damage the economy any more than they have already.


 
How have the unions damaged the economy?


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## Green (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> They have been in government buildings or looking out over the city from their plush offices at the top of Liberty Hall


 
Yes perhaps they were in Govt buildings discussing the partnership agreements, if the Irish people didn't like such agreements or benchmarking why did they return the same Government to power on two occassions?


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> How have the unions damaged the economy?


Demanding (and getting) excessive pay increases that have damaged the countries competitiveness, resisting necessary change in the protected sectors of the economy for no good reason which cost the tax payer millions (if not billions) and in the non-protected sector  which resulted in thousands of job losses.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Yes perhaps they were in Govt buildings discussing the partnership agreements, if the Irish people didn't like such agreements or benchmarking why did they return the same Government to power on two occassions?


Because the alternative involves Joan Burton?


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## Green (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> Because the alternative involves Joan Burton?


 
You seem to want everything your own way all the time. It seems childish to blame everything on one person. I would prefer Joan Burton to Bertie Ahern anyday.


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## Green (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> Demanding (and getting) excessive pay increases that have damaged the countries competitiveness, resisting necessary change in the protected sectors of the economy for no good reason which cost the tax payer millions (if not billions) and in the non-protected sector which resulted in thousands of job losses.


 
Do you have any factual evidence for any of this comment?


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## DerKaiser (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Do you have any factual evidence for any of this comment?


A €25 bn deficit and 350,000 people on the dole


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> You seem to want everything your own way all the time. It seems childish to blame everything on one person.


 Ok, I should have said "Lots of reasons", but Joan is one of them; she's utterly useless.



YOBR said:


> I would prefer Joan Burton to Bertie Ahern anyday.



Same here.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



derkaiser said:


> a €25 bn deficit and 350,000 people on the dole



lol


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## Green (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DerKaiser said:


> A €25 bn deficit and 350,000 people on the dole


 
Are you suggesting that this is actual evidence linking Purple's comment that the unions have damaged the economy or just another cheap anti union shot. I strongly supect it is the latter.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Are you suggesting that this is actual evidence linking Purple's comment that the unions have damaged the economy or just another cheap anti union shot. I strongly supect it is the latter.


 Are you suggesting that the highest after tax minimum wage in the EU, pushed for by the breaded Brethren, and two rounds of the Benchmarking fiasco have had no impact on our competitiveness?
Union leaders proliferate our state and semi-state boards, with the Eminence grise himself, David Begg, sitting on the board of both the central Bank and the ESRI.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> Yeah, those shocking pay rises that allowed us to earn enough to both buy a small house AND eat! We really shouldn't have been given those.
> 
> Isn't it funny how those people giving out about too high minimum/industrial wages are generally the ones who earn 6 figure salaries? Its the little guy earning a tenner an hour that ruined the country though.....?



Look at the OECD figures on pay in Ireland.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> And your point being?
> 
> I have seen them. But I've also seen the payslips for my family, and the hard won increase in my husbands pay (strong union) wouldn't keep you in newspapers. We live on amounts that you would laugh at, and its going down all the time, as we just lost the paltry bit of overtime and a split shift allowance that took years to win.



I’m not going to get into a “Who’s got the best sob story” tit-for-tat with you but I started working full time at 17 (part time at 14) and for the first 12 years never did less than 65 flat hours a week (and often working over 80), most weeks it was 6.5 days. From day one (at 14) I paid tax on my wages, going onto the higher tax band (then 48%) as a third year apprentice. 
What’s my point? If you need more money get a second job/ work more overtime/ get a different job. The next time you need a pay rise try earning it rather than “winning” it; it shouldn’t be a battle.


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## Shawady (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?

Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.


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## DerKaiser (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Are you suggesting that this is actual evidence linking Purple's comment that the unions have damaged the economy or just another cheap anti union shot. I strongly supect it is the latter.


It was a cheap shot....and yes everybody involved in inflating our average wage and reducing our tax base is responsible for damaging the economy.

The unions, like government, took the populist decsions that have brought us to the brink of ruin


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## DerKaiser (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> Yeah, those shocking pay rises that allowed us to earn enough to both buy a small house AND eat! We really shouldn't have been given those.


 
The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages. 

If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.

I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> Believe me you would not argue that they earn too much if you were living on that money.



I did live on that money. I spent years when needing a new tyre for my bicycle (which I used to get in and out of work) was a big deal. I know it’s not easy. That’s not the point; the point is that on a broad general level the country could not afford the pay increases that were given out. On a specific level it is the case that some people are still underpaid for what they do but more are overpaid for what they do. Remember that people are paid according to what they earn, not what they need. The communists tried that and it didn’t work out too well for them.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DerKaiser said:


> The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages.
> 
> If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.
> 
> I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people


 Well said


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## becky (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Shawady said:


> Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?
> 
> Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.


 
I agree there isn't hugh support for a strike.  Impact have put the HSE on notice of industrial action without further warning and I expect that all other unions will do the same.

I noticed the other day that Liam Doran called the 30th March a national day of protest which in my view means some lunchtime protests and not industrial action in the form of a strike.


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## gipimann (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Shawady said:


> Do people think that the majority of union members will vote for strike action?
> 
> Just from talking to some of my colleagues, there does not seem much appetite for it.


 
People I've spoken to (public and civil servants) about it aren't in favour of striking and have voted no.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

I can’t comment on your specific case as I don’t know you or your circumstances but I’m sure it’s not easy. 
What I do know is that companies are not just moving to cheap labour countries like China, India and Costa Rica but they are moving to Holland and Switzerland because they are cheaper too. 
Allowing ourselves to become more expensive than the Northern part of mainland Europe is like slitting our own throat. It starts at the top with our government and parliament and how much they are paid and our banks who think they need to pay their CEO’s and senior staff the same as major international banks but it also applies to everyone else in the country.
Look at what you get paid and ask yourself if your counterpart in France, Germany, Holland or the UK gets paid the same or less. If the answer is yes then you get paid too much. That applies to me and you and Brian Cowan and a high court Judge.


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## Shawady (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> the point is that on a broad general level the country could not afford the pay increases that were given out. On a specific level it is the case that some people are still underpaid for what they do but more are overpaid for what they do. Remember that people are paid according to what they earn, not what they need. The communists tried that and it didn’t work out too well for them.


 
I would aggree with a lot of that but I think it is worth saying that it was not only pay increases in the public service that was the problem.
The government has spent the past 10 years throwing money at problems whether it be increasing ps numbers in the health service, early childcare supplement, the bertie bowl, thorntan hall (new prision), e-voting machines (which now cost 700k a year to store), increasing social welfare benefits.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Shawady said:


> I would aggree with a lot of that but I think it is worth saying that it was not only pay increases in the public service that was the problem.
> The government has spent the past 10 years throwing money at problems whether it be increasing ps numbers in the health service, early childcare supplement, the bertie bowl, thorntan hall (new prision), e-voting machines (which now cost 700k a year to store), increasing social welfare benefits.


 I agree, I wasn't just talking about the public sector at all.


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## Shawady (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> I agree, I wasn't just talking about the public sector at all.


 
Fair enough, I misinterpreted a previous post and though people were just discussing public sector unions.

Has anyone any thoughts about what happen if some of the unions voted against strike action?
It woud surely have implications for the guys at the top in ICTU.


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## cole (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

My union voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action. However most of my colleagues do not want to strike. The option afforded us by the union were either a) industrial action including work to rule up to and including 2 strike days or b) no industrial action. We would all have preferred if a strike ballot were held seperately. Striking will lose me a day's pay for no hope of return.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> I do understand your point.


 For someone who didn’t understand my point you did a very good job of answering it (and I’m not being sarcastic)



jaybird said:


> My OH's counterpart in the UK gets paid more, and I'm not sure about the others. Would think they would be similar or more.


 Then benchmarking him against our EU counterparts (the benchmarking that matters) he is not overpaid. I am not making a point specific to your husband/partner; it’s a more general point (and government policy should be set based on the medium to long term interests of the majority with social policy helping those that are left behind).



jaybird said:


> I think though, that your last point is interesting. Doesn't Brian Cowen get paid far far more than his counterparts, like, anywhere? Probably true for the high court judge as well. But its still the minimum wage that always get attacked, not their salaries. Why is that?


 Both should be looked at from a broad perspective. Leaders should to lead by example. TD’s, in my opinion, should be looking at a 25% pay cut, the same for judges etc.
Only 3.3% of the Irish workforce is on the minimum wage so it’s not the rate but the knock-on effect that it has on wage inflation across the economy that matters. 



jaybird said:


> And yes, its obviously a bad thing if other countries are cheaper than us. By slashing wage costs at the bottom, you may improve our attractiveness to overseas investment, obviously a good thing. But how are those workers to survive? Cost of living doesn't go down much.


 Cost of living does go down quite a bit as wages drop. Property prices have dropped, as has rent, utilities and other input costs so therefore the cost of doing business has dropped. This allows retailers to drop prices to chase (but not match) the reduced consumer spending power that we have at the moment. 



jaybird said:


> Are we to suffer so we can get those investments so Brian Cowen can justify his big salary?


 No



jaybird said:


> Money comes back into the country, somebody does well, but we just get poorer and poorer, and the unions long gone too if you had your way?


No, as money comes into the economy it will increase demand which in turn will create more jobs and lead to wage inflation again. As long as we don’t lose the run of ourselves again that shouldn’t be a problem.


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## Green (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> Are you suggesting that the highest after tax minimum wage in the EU, pushed for by the breaded Brethren, and two rounds of the Benchmarking fiasco have had no impact on our competitiveness?
> Union leaders proliferate our state and semi-state boards, with the Eminence grise himself, David Begg, sitting on the board of both the central Bank and the ESRI.


 
Of course it affected our competitiveness but they had to seek pay increases to allow people to be able to afford homes. You might have noticed a slight rise in house prices from  1995 till 2006  Also, the ESRI did warn the Govt about the affects of house price rises and the dependance on construction revenues.


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## Green (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DerKaiser said:


> The problem was the price of the small house not the level of wages.
> 
> If the average wage is the same as every other country but the small house costs double you look at ways to make houses affordable not inflate wages.
> 
> I realise I'm being wise after the event but even this wisdom still seems to be beyond a lot of people


 
I agree with your points on house prices, FF made all the wrong decisions on this and land use planing from the 1960's onwards.


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## Purple (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Of course it affected our competitiveness but they had to seek pay increases to allow people to be able to afford homes. You might have noticed a slight rise in house prices from  1995 till 2006  Also, the ESRI did warn the Govt about the affects of house price rises and the dependance on construction revenues.


I agree so why did the Bearded Brethren look for pay increases instead of measures to reduce the cost of housing (or at least stop the rate of increase)? 
Answer; they knew that the pay increases they got for their members were being funded by transaction taxes on construction during a construction bubble; the same short-termism as Bertie and his merry band of clowns.


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## micmclo (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



cole said:


> Striking will lose me a day's pay for no hope of return.


 
If you go an union approved strike, surely your union would pay you strike pay?
After all, don't they collect money for these events.

I don't know a whole lot about the process but I assumed strike pay would be given, no?


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## Caveat (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> I don't know if its standard across union, but ours only pays strike pay for strikes lasting more than 3 days. *And its only* *about 150 euro for a full week, and thats if you stand on the line for your full shift everyday*.


 
Interesting thanks - never knew that.


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## Shawady (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Caveat said:


> Interesting thanks - never knew that.


 
Never been on strike but one of my colleagues reckons we only get paid if the strike is 'prolonged', not for a one day stoppage. This ties in with what Jaybird said.


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## Green (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> I agree so why did the Bearded Brethren look for pay increases instead of measures to reduce the cost of housing (or at least stop the rate of increase)?


 
Come on! When you see how closely the political system has been involved in planning system do you seriously expect the unions to be able to change the tide of political corruption?


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## Purple (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Come on! When you see how closely the political system has been involved in planning system do you seriously expect the unions to be able to change the tide of political corruption?


The unions are part of the tide of political corruption. Read Animal Farm; they are inside the house at the dining table and the suckers they leach off, I mean represent, are outside looking in.


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## bamboozle (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DerKaiser said:


> I cannot understand it. A weekend protest might be acceptable but anyone going on strike is even more out of touch with reality than the Anglo directors!


 
the most out of touch people at the moment are those who are trying to lay the blame for our country's depression on bankers...

suprisingly enough it is our dear government and trade unions who are doing this...both parties doing their best to deflect from the truth which hurts them far more, the government as they cant face up to fact they have destroyed the economy and civil servants as blaming Bankers and citing inequitable and unfairness by the government re the pension levy will help distract from the fact that huge cuts in public service wages are necessary.


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## Green (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> The unions are part of the tide of political corruption.


 How many union leaders have you seen trotting up to the Tribunals in Dublin Castle?


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## Mpsox (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> How many union leaders have you seen trotting up to the Tribunals in Dublin Castle?


 
in fairness, none, instead those who are directors of organisations like FAS should have been in front of the relevant Dail Committees explaining how that organisation wasted so much of the taxpayers money. The union leaders involved may not have been corrupt, but they were certainly incompetent and getting paid by the tax payer for being incompetent


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## Purple (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> How many union leaders have you seen trotting up to the Tribunals in Dublin Castle?



They didn't have to be corrupt; they got everything they wanted legally (if not morally).


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## Green (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> The unions are part of the tide of political corruption.


 


Purple said:


> They didn't have to be corrupt.


 
Seems to be a contradiction here? Perhaps it is affcets of the sun


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## Green (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Mpsox said:


> in fairness, none, instead those who are directors of organisations like FAS should have been in front of the relevant Dail Committees explaining how that organisation wasted so much of the taxpayers money. The union leaders involved may not have been corrupt, but they were certainly incompetent and getting paid by the tax payer for being incompetent


 
I would agree that all those who were involved at Board level in FAS should account for their tenure. I think if we want proper accountability on State Boards then we have to change the process of how people are appointed to them. You might see Transparency International's recent report in this regard.


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## Purple (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



YOBR said:


> Seems to be a contradiction here?


You're right, I should have been clearer. Those who have governed us for the last ten years have done so in a way which serves the interests of sections of Irish society but has damaged the nation as a whole. The elected government, the construction industry lobby groups and the unions are the three groups that have made up the real government. The unions have not had to break any laws as they got everything they wanted. 
Political corruption (as corrupt politicians) is a different issue,  no less serious and also feeding into the overall problem which is a political system that has been corrupted and no longer functions in the greater interests of the nation as a whole.


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## NorthDrum (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

One of the most dissapointing aspects out of this all is that the very fact people are listening to Unions populast propaganda highlights yet again the inadequate government opposition. 

Why exactly are people striking? 

If they are simply unhappy with the government, why do work days have to be lost for it to make a point? If people striked on weekends every week they would be listened to, but of course its more convenient to take money out of the economy at the expense of an employers pocket (you know those in the ivory towers who people love to blame when things arent going well, but are only too happy to work for when they themselves benefit from it).

I think most people are fed up with the way things have deteriorated and how they perceive the governments actions have targeted those of us already struggling to make ends meat. The governments inability to properly communicate what and why they have been doing things has left a void in which Unions and media have filled with garbage thats simply been counter productive to any recovery this country will make. We all know the main perpetrators of this mess, but going on about it constantly does not fix the economy.

But I think the Unions have done themselves a great disservice by playing on peoples emotions for their own cause. The very fact this strike is before the budget just shows how the unions motivations are as much about banging the drums for the sake of it, as getting better deals for their members.


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## S.L.F (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



DeeFox said:


> I think it is a bit silly to strike a week before the budget. They should at least wait until they have a fuller picture of what will be happening in the country.


 
The strike day was picked before yet *another* budget was decided on.

Do you think the unions should ask the govt when would be ok to have industrial action?

Speaking for myself I don't believe the unions had any choice in the matter


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## Complainer (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



NorthDrum said:


> If they are simply unhappy with the government, why do work days have to be lost for it to make a point? If people striked on weekends every week they would be listened to,


What a super idea - weekend protests - how why didn't the unions think of that? Ooops, they did http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/100000-march-on-dublin-1648856.html


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## NorthDrum (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Complainer said:


> What a super idea - weekend protests - how why didn't the unions think of that? Ooops, they did http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/100000-march-on-dublin-1648856.html


 
Your missing the point, I didnt say unions, I said "the people". 

Anybody following everything the unions are suggesting at the moment obviously doesnt fully understand whats actually happening in the country (or they are too wrapped up in blaming everybody else to actually come up with something productive to offer). 

I have said it before . . *Theres a time and a place for unions* . . Now is not the time as they can offer nothing but hardship for employees (no pay cuts = more job losses, simple economics) and will drag the rest of us with them. Now is the time for productive people to get working. In a recession and when jobs are being lost all over the place and we have competitive issues, what exactly can the unions offer employees! Unions are tapping into popular opinion in order to justify their existance . . 

Sadly the power of the unions is more down to the lack of confidence in the government then anything that a union should be so supported for. The unions, have in effect, taken over the role of the opposition partys at the expense of us all. If this continues the Unions and their followers will eventually get what they are forcing . . The I.M.F. . . And then they wont have a voice at all . .


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## Purple (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*

Excellent posts NorthDrum.


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## S.L.F (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



NorthDrum said:


> We all know the main perpetrators of this mess, but going on about it constantly does not fix the economy.


 
Yes but since the ones who made this mess have to sort it out and I for one don't have much hope for the economy.



NorthDrum said:


> But I think the Unions have done themselves a great disservice by playing on peoples emotions for their own cause.


 
Our govt tore up the partnership agreement, what else can the unions do?



NorthDrum said:


> The very fact this strike is before the budget just shows how the unions motivations are as much about banging the drums for the sake of it, as getting better deals for their members.


 
The nominated day of strike action 30-3-09 was taken before the govt decided to have another budget


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## Purple (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



S.L.F said:


> Our govt tore up the partnership agreement, what else can the unions do?


 The Unions slithered away from the Polit-Bureau when there were hard decisions to make, exposing the lie that they were ever interested in the national good.
Now they are putting their own narrow interests ahead of the national interest… maybe they could try being a bit patriotic.



S.L.F said:


> The nominated day of strike action 30-3-09 was taken before the govt decided to have another budget


 Agreed, but they did know it was a work day.


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## Purple (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



jaybird said:


> Wouldn't be much of a work stoppage/strike on a non work day, would it?


 No, but it could have been a day of protest/day of action, they could have got their point across without further damaging the country.


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## S.L.F (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Purple said:


> The Unions slithered away from the Polit-Bureau when there were hard decisions to make, exposing the lie that they were ever interested in the national good.


 
Unions interest is in its members of which there are close 350,000 employed by our govt, these people all have families.

Everyone knows someone who works for the govt so with that in mind surely its in the national interest to keeps its members interests at heart.



Purple said:


> Now they are putting their own narrow interests ahead of the national interest… maybe they could try being a bit patriotic.


 
If our govt wanted to be patriotic they'd resign from govt and put it to the voters.


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## Complainer (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



NorthDrum said:


> Your missing the point, I didnt say unions, I said "the people".


What you said was "If people striked on weekends every week they would be listened to".

Maybe I was a bit presumptuous, but when you mentioned striking, I thought of unions. Are you now suggesting that people should be striking WITHOUT involving their unions?


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## Purple (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



S.L.F said:


> Unions interest is in its members of which there are close 350,000 employed by our govt, these people all have families.
> 
> Everyone knows someone who works for the govt so with that in mind surely its in the national interest to keeps its members interests at heart.


 yes, but not to the detriment of the common good and that's what the unions want.





S.L.F said:


> If our govt wanted to be patriotic they'd resign from govt and put it to the voters.


 Maybe, but that's a different issue.


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## NorthDrum (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Complainer said:


> What you said was "If people striked on weekends every week they would be listened to".
> 
> Maybe I was a bit presumptuous, but when you mentioned striking, I thought of unions. Are you now suggesting that people should be striking WITHOUT involving their unions?


 
No I am suggesting that people are putting far too much importance on what Unions are saying. It should be the opposition partys galvanising public opinion. Because there is no credible opposing party does not make it ok that the Unions have taken up the mantle.

Nobody will convince me that the Unions are acting soley in the interests of their members. They are simply looking to jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion to justify their current existance.


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## Green (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



NorthDrum said:


> If this continues the Unions and their followers will eventually get what they are forcing . . The I.M.F. . . And then they wont have a voice at all . .


 
Rule no 1. If in doubt play the IMF card! such a cliche at this point...


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## Shawady (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*

This might throw a spanner in the works.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0323/partnership.html


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## fobs (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



Shawady said:


> This might throw a spanner in the works.
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0323/partnership.html


 
Seems funny that that the ICTU are going to examine whether the 66% rule needs to be adhered to. If it was the other way around I am sure they would accept it!


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## csirl (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



fobs said:


> Seems funny that that the ICTU are going to examine whether the 66% rule needs to be adhered to. If it was the other way around I am sure they would accept it!


 
So a minority of workers in the economy of whom only 50 odd % bothered to vote, and of those only 60 odd % (i.e. a minority of their total) support a strike, believe they have a mandate for a national strike?


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## Mpsox (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*

IBOA have also said they won't support it and haven't even balloted their members

[broken link removed]

As I said in a post elsewhere, i think it is good that someone in the union lesdership is stating clearly why the "day of action" was called in the first place and secondly why they see no reason to join in

some commen sense at last


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## room305 (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



YOBR said:


> Rule no 1. If in doubt play the IMF card! such a cliche at this point...



A "cliche"? I was told off for being melodramatic when I suggested it on this site just a few short months ago. In reality it will probably be the EU who will impose sanctions, playing the "better us than the IMF card".

It may have already started. Otherwise why the sudden announcement of an emergency budget after the visit of Jean-Claude Trichet?


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## Complainer (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



NorthDrum said:


> Nobody will convince me that the Unions are acting soley in the interests of their members. They are simply looking to jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion to justify their current existance.


The unions are fairly democratic organisations. No strike decisions are taken without balloting members. Members run the branches, and can pass motions giving direction to management.

Union members aren't stupid. They are generally smart people, who don't suffer fools and don't allow themselves to be led down blind alleys.


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## S.L.F (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



csirl said:


> So a minority of workers in the economy of whom only 50 odd % bothered to vote, and of those only 60 odd % (i.e. a minority of their total) support a strike, believe they have a mandate for a national strike?


 
I know of several IMPACT members who didn't get ballod papers and I have heard of several who got 5!

On a different note I memtioned this before in a previous post but wouldn't it be funny if the chairman of FAS and the general secetary of IMPACT were the same person.

Feast your eyes on this

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fas-defends-meeting-in-luxury-hotel-1485892.html

Money well spent what do you think?


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## Purple (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Complainer said:


> The unions are fairly democratic organisations. No strike decisions are taken without balloting members. Members run the branches, and can pass motions giving direction to management.
> 
> Union members aren't stupid. They are generally smart people, who don't suffer fools and don't allow themselves to be led down blind alleys.



Good aold Joe was saying the same thing about the Communist Party in Soviet Russia a while back (as were many current members of the current gaggle of union fat cats).


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## SarahMc (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



S.L.F said:


> I know of several IMPACT members who didn't get ballod papers and I have heard of several who got 5!


 
I haven't been an IMPACT member for years, but I got a ballot paper.


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## shanegl (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



Complainer said:


> The unions are fairly democratic organisations. No strike decisions are taken without balloting members. Members run the branches, and can pass motions giving direction to management.
> 
> Union members aren't stupid. They are generally smart people, who don't suffer fools and don't allow themselves to be led down blind alleys.



Absolutely. No strike without a ballot. Now, whether they pay any attention to the result, well, we'll just have to see won't we?


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## Purple (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: One Day Work Stoppage - March 30th*



shanegl said:


> Absolutely. No strike without a ballot. Now, whether they pay any attention to the result, well, we'll just have to see won't we?



All members are equal... but some are more equal than others.


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## S.L.F (23 Mar 2009)

*Re: Am I alone in thinking  ICTU's 1 day work stoppage on March30th is stark raving m*



SarahMc said:


> I haven't been an IMPACT member for years, but I got a ballot paper.


 
Now with that in mind I wonder how many ballot papers were actually sent out?


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