# B1 Return



## dieter1 (31 Aug 2009)

We set up a company about 15 months ago, just got our NARD as middle October.  

Its a small company with just two directors - fairly simple business, I have everything recorded on an excel spreadsheet -  i think its fairly under control accounts wise.  I do the payroll, VAT & tax returns and cash mgt.

Question is, do we need to have audited accounts attached to our B1?  Also can any qualiified accountant put together our audited accounts, or do they have be part of an accounting practice?


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## papervalue (31 Aug 2009)

Did you file first B1 with no accounts within 6 months of incorporation?

What is incorporation date?

What is company accounting year?

What is ard date you have now?

What region is turnover?

Answer the above to get clear accurate answer


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## Cat101 (31 Aug 2009)

Checklist and info for form B1 here:
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=..._Should_Know.pdf+checklist+for+B1&hl=en&gl=ie


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## MandaC (31 Aug 2009)

If the company was formed about 15 months ago, then this is your second Annual Return (1st with Accounts)

You will need accounts (albeit very brief) to lodge with the Annual Return.  Do you have an accountant appointed.  I am not sure now with the downturn, but from what I recall, Accountants charge approx. €500 for an audit even if there is not much in the company, as they still have to do the audit and are signing the accounts as audited.

If your NARD date is middle October, you will get an additional 28 days to file online meaning the accounts will need to be lodged middle nov.


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## sartay (1 Sep 2009)

MandaC said:


> I am not sure now with the downturn, but from what I recall, Accountants charge approx. €500 for an audit even if there is not much in the company, as they still have to do the audit and are signing the accounts as audited.


 
Wow, €500 for an audit sounds amazingly cheap to be honest! Out of interest, is that what other people are finding is the going rate for an audit? A friend of mine has to get an audit done and is expecting to pay a lot more... would be interesting to know if she could save a lot of money!


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## Graham_07 (1 Sep 2009)

If the company qualifies for and chooses to avail of Audit Exemption ( info leaflet 10) then an auditor is not required. An accountant can do unaudited accounts and returns for you or, if you feel competent to file, then you may do so yourself.  Bear in mind the accounts must comply with the Companies Acts 1963-2009 as to content and layout. 

I very much doubt that you will get any auditor to do audited accounts for €500 recession or otherwise. The regulatory framework and risk would far outweigh such a fee. However you might find someone prepared to do audit exempt accounts for that sum though.


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## patftrears (1 Sep 2009)

Graham_07 said:


> If the company qualifies for and chooses to avail of Audit Exemption ( info leaflet 10) then an auditor is not required. An accountant can do unaudited accounts and returns for you or, if you feel competent to file, then you may do so yourself.  Bear in mind the accounts must comply with the Companies Acts 1963-2009 as to content and layout.
> 
> I very much doubt that you will get any auditor to do audited accounts for €500 recession or otherwise. The regulatory framework and risk would far outweigh such a fee. However you might find someone prepared to do audit exempt accounts for that sum though.


If you do your own accounts and can handle tax returns, there is sample accounts in the leaflet above that you can copy. You need to pull figures out of your balance sheet. Very simple job.
Also as mentioned above did you file a return 6 months after you setup the company ?


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## MandaC (2 Sep 2009)

Have seen audits completed and signed off for 500   Would be very specific circumstances, mainly a blank set (but audited( needed for Banking reasons and nothing in company apart for share capital.


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## Graham_07 (2 Sep 2009)

MandaC said:


> Have seen audits completed and signed off for 500 *Would be very specific circumstances, mainly a blank set* (but audited( needed for Banking reasons *and nothing in company apart for share capital.*


 

In normal trading company circumstances ( such as the OP described) it is highly unlikely though.


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## KDA man (2 Sep 2009)

Back to your original question.

Go to www.cro.ie, click on company search, enter your co name. Look at the next ARD Date and if your more than 28 days past this, you need to audit.

On 500 euro for an audit, only if they are non trading accounts. Otherwise buyer beware!!!

Tony
tony@kdaaccountants.ie
www.kdaaccountants.ie


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## patftrears (2 Sep 2009)

KDA man said:


> On 500 euro for an audit, only if they are non trading accounts. Otherwise buyer beware!!!
> 
> Tony
> tony@kdaaccountants.ie
> www.kdaaccountants.ie


Why buyer beware, if they have an audit cert who care what the price is.
They could be doing a loss leading promotion to attract future business.
Given the current state of the economy, I'd say a lot of accountants will be offering smaller companies audits for €500 soon.


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## Graham_07 (2 Sep 2009)

patftrears said:


> Given the current state of the economy, I'd say a lot of accountants will be offering smaller companies audits for €500 soon.


 
One thing is for certain, this one won't be. The time and regulatory cost of auditing to proper standards means that it would be far better for me to take on sole-trader's than audit cases. One could do several sole trader accounts for better return in the same time as some audit cases. And I will not expose my practising certiciate and indemnity insurance to audit risk without realistic and appropriate return. If other firms wish to do so, good luck to them.


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## oopsbuddy (4 Sep 2009)

Back to Dieter's (the OP's) current issue, as this sounds like your SECOND annual return, you can file a B73 with this second B1 and extend the ARD by another six months, but you MUST submit the b1 and B73 on time. This will prevent you from being "late" and therefore you will not automatically lose your entitlement to audit exemption. HOWEVER, you MUST make sure that your first financial period-end is extended to make sure it falls within 9 months of the new ARD. Also, remember that you can only do this B73 extension once every five years.


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