# WEEE Directive prevents online purchases by Irish consumers?



## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2006)

I have been looking to buy toys on the web for my kids for Christmas but have found it impossible so far to find a retailer that will ship toys to Ireland. I also noticed recently that play.com will no longer ship a CD to an Irish address.

I think I have found the reason here... 

http://www.shopireland.ie/toys/detail/B0009YDDEM/NoddySly-&-Gobbo



> Note: Due to a change in Amazon's shipping policies, toys cannot be shipped to Ireland. We apologise for this, and recommend trying one of the alternate stores. (WHY?)



and here...

[broken link removed]



> Why does Amazon not ship to Ireland?
> Amazon have recently updated their shipping policies and can not ship electronics, toys, kitchen items or video games to Ireland. We do apologise for this, and will keep this page updated as we learn of any updates.
> 
> What's the reason then?
> ...



This appears to be a very serious development for Irish consumers. If the WEEE directive prevents online suppliers from shipping to Ireland, it needs to be scrapped or amended immediately.


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> I also noticed recently that play.com will no longer ship a CD to an Irish address.


You mean _CD _media or players? _CDWOW _still ship to Ireland in case that's of any use? In relation to _CDWOW _I have often found that browsing their A-Z catalogue doesn't show what I'm looking for but doing a search does.


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## tallpaul (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> I also noticed recently that play.com will no longer ship a CD to an Irish address.


 
They do actually. You just have to order in euro. However they will not ship electronics, again probably because of Dick Roche's stealth tax...


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## GreatDane (25 Oct 2006)

Hi

It should be interesting to see if someone raises this at EU level, given it's proving a restriction on free movement of trade & services from the looks of things.

Any thoughts ?

Cheers

G>


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## slave1 (25 Oct 2006)

firstly, play never shipped their electronic goods to Ireland
secondly, its the management of it that is preventing amazon shipping, lots of other companies are doing it via setting up Irish websites/other means e.g. komplett, svp, pixmania, IMHO they just couldn't be bothered so its an easy excuse for them or they simply don't understand the legislation


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## MugsGame (25 Oct 2006)

> should be interesting to see if someone raises this at EU level, given it's proving a restriction on free movement of trade & services



Charlie McCreevey might be interested in it from that point of view, if you care to email him.


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## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2006)

Just to clarify, it was a CD (ie a disc, not a player) that Play would not ship to Ireland for me. This was priced in Sterling so maybe tallpaul's suggestion would have worked. I simply bought it elsewhere on the web, but paid through the nose on postage costs as a result.

I can't see how or why Amazon or anyone else would be looking for "an easy excuse" not to ship to Ireland when it is the customer who is paying the shipping cost.


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## Squonk (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> Just to clarify, it was a CD (ie a disc, not a player) that Play would not ship to Ireland for me. This was priced in Sterling so maybe tallpaul's suggestion would have worked. I simply bought it elsewhere on the web, but paid through the nose on postage costs as a result.


 Tallpaul is right...you need to switch the prices to Euro before you purchase on play.com


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## Meathman99 (25 Oct 2006)

MugsGame said:


> Charlie McCreevey might be interested in it from that point of view, if you care to email him.



The WEEE directive is a way for us to comply with aqnother tenet of European law   "The Polluter Pays"


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2006)

Garrettod said:


> It should be interesting to see if someone raises this at EU level, given it's proving a restriction on free movement of trade & services from the looks of things.


Raise what? The _WEEE _directive? Well that's an _EU _directive so presumably the _EU _powers that be thing it's a "good thing".

[broken link removed]

Or do you mean retailers choosing where they will ship to which is presumably their prerogative?


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## Meathman99 (25 Oct 2006)

tallpaul said:


> probably because of Dick Roche's stealth tax...



I take it that like most people you are in favour of the governments incentives to reduce pollution and environmental harm.   I cant see how this is a stealth tax, maybe I'm dumb.  As a nation weee need to reduce the amount of waste we produce.  Weee have proven in the past and weee continue to prove that weee need to be coerced into this.  Be it plastic bag charge, bin charges or the water charges that will soon be introduced.


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## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2006)

Anti-pollution and pro-environment incentives are all well and good but some of the measures included end up effectively discouraging major online retailers from servicing the Irish market, this could have serious implications for consumers. If online companies exit the market, it does not take a genius to predict that the high-street traders will take advantage.

It should be possible to draft regulations that don't effectively ban or otherwise overly complicate online commerce. So much for the much-trumpeted e-commerce hub of Europe...


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> It should be possible to draft regulations that don't effectively ban or otherwise overly complicate online commerce.


_WEEE _doesn't effectively ban such trade. Lots of other online _EU _retailers still ship electronic devices and _CDs _to _Ireland_!


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## PMU (25 Oct 2006)

I’m not certain if a retailer in one EU country is obliged to supply goods to a customer in another EU country, but if the retailer supplies goods trans-border he / she must charge the customer the same VAT that would be applicable to a consumer in the retailer’s country, or, if the retailer accepts responsibility for shipping, the VAT rate applicable to the purchase.  That’s about it.  If a retailer says that he / she cannot supply goods trans-border because of a particular implementation of the WEEE or any other directive you should complain to the nearest SOLVIT centre http://europa.eu/solvit that deals with trans-border problems caused by the (possible) incorrect application of EU rules by public authorities.  (By the way, it is possible that it is simply more trouble than it is worth for the retailer to supply the goods trans-border and the EU is just dragged in as an excuse for not doing so.).


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## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2006)

ClubMan said:


> _WEEE _doesn't effectively ban such trade. Lots of other online _EU _retailers still ship electronic devices and _CDs _to _Ireland_!



Thanks for helpfully pointing that out. Now, name me a supplier that still ship Noddy toys (the subject of my original post) to Irish consumers and I'll be eternally grateful.


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## tallpaul (25 Oct 2006)

Meathman99 said:


> I take it that like most people you are in favour of the governments incentives to reduce pollution and environmental harm. I cant see how this is a stealth tax, maybe I'm dumb. As a nation weee need to reduce the amount of waste we produce. Weee have proven in the past and weee continue to prove that weee need to be coerced into this. Be it plastic bag charge, bin charges or the water charges that will soon be introduced.


 
Not to take this topic even further OT than it is, I don't doubt that the overall aim of WEEE is entirely admirable. What I do object to is that, for once, the Government is very quick to introduce something that costs Joe and Josephine Citizen money. The Government however, is not so quick to get rid of taxes i.e VRT which has been cited time and again as contravening EU law.

Where the WEEE acts like a stealth tax, is that it is payable whether you are disposing of a product or not. I think the purpose of the tax is to assist in disposing of unused electrical products. If I go in to buy a TV, I pay €40 (or whatever it is) PRF, even if I am not disposing of my old one. DID or Powercity or whatever then forward this on to the Government. This, whatever way you look at it, is a tax.


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## Satanta (25 Oct 2006)

tallpaul said:


> Where the WEEE acts like a stealth tax, is that it is payable whether you are disposing of a product or not.


The product you are buying will have to be disposed of eventually. So whether you are disposing of a product now or not is a mute point.


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## DoctorEvil (25 Oct 2006)

tallpaul said:


> Where the WEEE acts like a stealth tax, is that it is payable whether you are disposing of a product or not. I think the purpose of the tax is to assist in disposing of unused electrical products. If I go in to buy a TV, I pay €40 (or whatever it is) PRF, even if I am not disposing of my old one. DID or Powercity or whatever then forward this on to the Government. This, whatever way you look at it, is a tax.



Sorry but you are totally incorrect in this assumption. The money you are paying is for the future disposal of the product you are buying. The added bonus is that although we did not pay this previously we can now recycle our old electrical goods at no cost to ourselves.


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## tallpaul (25 Oct 2006)

Satanta said:


> The product you are buying will have to be disposed of eventually. So whether you are disposing of a product now or not is a mute point.


 
Then perhaps it would be fairer to only impose WEEE when disposing of a product...


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> Noddy toys (the subject of my original post)


There's no mention of _Noddy _toys in your original post.


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## Satanta (25 Oct 2006)

tallpaul said:


> Then perhaps it would be fairer to only impose WEEE when disposing of a product...


The problem here is getting people to pay for the correct disposal of products. If it were introduced like this the number of illegally dumped electronic/WEEE relevant products would hugely increase.

Putting it on the sale means the cost is included from day one and when it comes time to dispose people will simply use the service they have already paid for.


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## Meathman99 (25 Oct 2006)

tallpaul said:


> Then perhaps it would be fairer to only impose WEEE when disposing of a product...




This has been the method of payment for waste managment until recently.  Unfortunately Joe and Josie persistenently fly tip, use illegal dumps etc.  Jack and Jill in the public hospitals dumped their biohazard waste in illegal dumps.   It just wouldnt work.  

I truely understand where you are coming from.  I hope to buy a car before Christmas    I'll have to fork out about 25% to the government in the form of VRT. 

If we all accepted the principle that (s)he who uses a service pays for it then our income tax would drop.

I switch on my tap, therefore i pay for the water that comes out of it
I create waste (Choose not to adhere to the waste managment triangle by first Reducing, Reusing etc)  I pay for waste management.

Rant over.


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## tallpaul (25 Oct 2006)

Meathman99 said:


> This has been the method of payment for waste managment until recently. Unfortunately Joe and Josie persistenently fly tip, use illegal dumps etc. Jack and Jill in the public hospitals dumped their biohazard waste in illegal dumps. It just wouldnt work.
> 
> I truely understand where you are coming from. I hope to buy a car before Christmas I'll have to fork out about 25% to the government in the form of VRT.
> 
> ...


 
Yes I think what gets my goat is the speed at which Dick Roche brought it in. I don't see the UK in the same rush. Obviously if they did, then one would assume that normal service would resume with Amazon et al...


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## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2006)

ClubMan said:


> There's no mention of _Noddy _toys in your original post.





ubiquitous said:


> .... http://www.shopireland.ie/toys/detail/B0009YDDEM/NoddySly-&-Gobbo ...



I'm amazed that there is SOMEBODY out there who doesn't know who Sly & Gobbo are! :lol:


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## ashambles (25 Oct 2006)

While it's currently only Amazon affected, I'd imagine that is purely because they're the biggest web retailer and have had their own legal team examine the implications of the Irish WEEE legislation. Chances are the legislation didn't consider web retailers knowing the slack way Irish legislation is drafted.

This could easily spread to all the major web retailers much the same way as where Irish Vat rates are now applied regardless of the country where the retailer is based. I seem to remember Amazon were the first to do this as well.

The problem for them is probably not so much applying the charge but in dealing with the replaced item. You buy an LCD TV off them and they're worried they'll need to pay for your old CRT to be shipped to the UK.


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## olddog (27 Oct 2006)

ashambles said:


> While it's currently only Amazon affected......




IIRC Dell dont offer consumer electronic equipment for sale in the Republic of Ireland due to it not being worth their while to mod their web site to allow for WEEE


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2006)

_PCs _are also covered by the _WEEE _directive and _Dell _are definitely selling those online! Also - see here and here for some relevant info.


> *Legislative and Regulatory Compliance
> 
> *Dell is dedicated to meeting the requirements of the European Union's WEEE (Waste from Electrical and Electronic Equipment) Directive and is engaged in the development of country-specific implementation schemes to comply with the national WEEE laws. The directive aims to reduce the waste arising from electrical and electronic equipment, and improve the environmental performance of everything involved in the life cycle of electrical and electronic equipment.


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## olddog (27 Oct 2006)

Clubie,

If you look on dell.ie you will not see LCD TVs, digital cameras etc offered. Go to dell.co.uk and they are offered. I understand that the reason for this is as above - they can cope with either no WEEE charge or one WEEE charge but not all the pesky little details that crop up with consumer goods.

I do not doubt that Dell take the topic of recycling in a responsible and serious way. Did you think that I suggested otherwise ?


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2006)

olddog said:


> If you look on dell.ie you will not see LCD TVs, digital cameras etc offered.


Ah - I consider _PCs_/laptops to be consumer electronic equipment hence my confusion at your comments.


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## JP1234 (21 Nov 2006)

Raising an old topic but I was a bit shocked tonight to find while I can order music cd's and dvd's I am not able to order PC Games ( cd/dvd format) which makes no sense at all, the games I am looking for are expansion packs which none of the local retailers here stock and I can't find them on line either!


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## efm (22 Nov 2006)

I just bought a digital camera and camcorder from a UK online retailer - I wasn't charged anything extra to comply with the WEEE directive; while I am not complaining I am just wondering technically should I have been charged ?

BTW the prices I got were better than pixmania.com and delivery in 48 hours


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## CCOVICH (22 Nov 2006)

efm said:


> I just bought a digital camera and camcorder from a UK online retailer - I wasn't charged anything extra to comply with the WEEE directive; while I am not complaining I am just wondering technically should I have been charged ?
> 
> BTW the prices I got were better than pixmania.com and delivery in 48 hours


 

Care to tell us which retailer???


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## efm (22 Nov 2006)

CCOVICH said:


> Care to tell us which retailer???


 
The retailer was [broken link removed] I did the deal on the telephone where they give the same prices as quoted on the net and charged me £25 GBP for delivery to Ireland - delivery was within 2 working days  but they had advised it might take up to 4 days.

This site was recommended over on  as being reputable and supplying UK standard product ie manuals in english with 3 pin plugs


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## Leo (22 Nov 2006)

Still worth shopping around as Mary H would say. Pixmania have Canon's IXUS 60 for €248 including delivery, it's €292 with AJP.


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## efm (22 Nov 2006)

Leo said:


> Still worth shopping around as Mary H would say. Pixmania have Canon's IXUS 60 for €248 including delivery, it's €292 with AJP.


 
Absolutely - I got a Sony Cybershot W70 and a Sony DVD 205 and both were cheaper with AJ Purdy but I had shopped around before deciding


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## podgerodge (18 Apr 2007)

DABS.ie are also quoting the WEEE directive as their reason for not supplying tv's etc to Ireland..


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