# House Plumbing Question -possible coil in cylinder gone.



## Sandals (18 Jan 2012)

Last week the hot water stopped coming out of taps, had a wiggle of the ball cock and solved the problem, then started to notice bottom of all rads frozen while tops hot and then noticed a scum of limescale in the bath (like sitting on the beach when in the bath).

Local plumber says coil in cylinder gone, unfort our own plumber gone to Australia. 

Any advice, costs etc. Thanks.


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## Woodie (18 Jan 2012)

If the coil in the cylinder is gone then as far as I am aware a new cylinder is required.  Had the same problem a couple of months ago except never seemed to have enough hot water which was eventually tracked to the coil.  The  new one copper prelagged cost 450 (bigger than the previous one) plus install but I have never looked back as the new one is providing tonnes of hot water at much reduced cost.  You can get smaller or a larger steel one if you want to do solar the latter is best part of 1K.


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## Sandals (18 Jan 2012)

Thanks Woodie, We'v loads of hot water, in fact first thing my husband noticed after a week away was the overflow pipe beside back door has a huge wet mark underneath it. Up in the attic my husband said there is a constant running of water into one of the tanks.  The hot water had stopped when he was away but thankfully I read on internet to check the attic and the ball cock (scary stuff!)

He was given a rough price of 400€ and nearly that again to fit and check system. We'v a solid fuel range (and oil that isnt used at all only once a week to keep system working as advised by our plumber six years ago).

Found this on another website in relation to a question on heavy limescale scum on the bath, 

"suspect leaking system and autofill valve!"


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## Padraigb (18 Jan 2012)

Sandals said:


> Thanks Woodie, We'v loads of hot water, in fact first thing my husband noticed after a week away was the overflow pipe beside back door has a huge wet mark underneath it. Up in the attic my husband said there is a constant running of water into one of the tanks. ...



Classic symptoms of a ruptured coil: there is backfeed to the header tank of the heating system, which then overflows.


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## ALEXA (18 Jan 2012)

Hi Sandals, we had a similar problem last year when the hot water came out of the tap with a dirty, brownish colour. The plumber said the coil was probably leaking water from the heating circuit into the hot water so we had to have a new cylinder fitted. He suggested fitting a new immersion at the same time and the total cost including fitting came to €420. We havn't had any problems since so it was worth getting the job done. Don't forget to hold onto your old cylinder and bring it to the scrap merchant - it will earn you at least €50 off the cost of the job!


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## Sandals (19 Jan 2012)

Thanks all, have a recommended plumber coming tonight at 6.30. Sometimes it just one job after another....

AlEXA now that you mention it we'v a kettle on the top of the range that the water looked limescaley and heavy looking and even though I cleaned it never went back to crystal clear, obviously the problem.


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## Sandals (19 Jan 2012)

ok kettle has nothing to do with this plumbing issue, as kettle filled with cold water, my imagination must working overtime!!!!

Anyway chap reckons it the little red pump in the hot press that needs replacing, reckons bathwater only scummy as ballcock got stuck. 80 to buy, no price on fitting but hes coming tomoro.....


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## Leo (20 Jan 2012)

Sandals said:


> ...then started to notice bottom of all rads frozen while tops hot


 
You may need to consider a power flush of the heating system to clear out any debris/sludge to eliminate this problem after you replace the cylinder.


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## Sandals (20 Jan 2012)

Well plumber gone again, replace the pump with a more modern powerful one, done in half hour €100. hope it works!!!! Thanks for all the help, great to work things out....


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## Leo (20 Jan 2012)

Did your plumber turn on the the heating and make sure all the above symptoms were resolved?


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## Sandals (21 Jan 2012)

Leo, answer is NO, Unfort plumber left yesterday morn and said dont light range for a few hours. all well lit range and after about half an hour not a bit of heat in rads and then huge water filling noise in hot water cylinder which is in the hotpress beside back door in utility. it was so loud I actually was afraid and rang my husband who said shut up the range, sounded like the cyclinder boiling and goin to blow!!!.  

When husband came home he opened up the range with a bursting fire and up in attic the tank full of hot water and pouring out the expansion pipe, rang plumber and in fairness he came out and decided the system needed to be cleaned. So house was freezing last night as no range or oil. 

this morning he found new issues, like our old plumber had the system fitted wrongly in the attic some pipes corroded away and said we were lucky this hadnt bored a whole in our rads!!!! Also some shut off vent thing stuck in the house press but he couldnt fit another one till next weekend after cleaning fluid has worked. Also told turn on oil an hour a day towards the end of the week. Bill €75 for this morning.

any thoughts on this appreciated. thanks.


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## Shane007 (21 Jan 2012)

This is hard to comment on as you are not fully describing the issue. The plumber should have carried out a full inspection of the system, after highlighting any faults, rectified said fault and then operated the system in full before leaving. Sticking in a new circulating pump and walking away from it is not good enough and then charging again to look in the attic!

I would seriously get somebody else to do a full inspection of the system before anymore works are carried out. A powerflush may well be required but that may also not be the problem. Solid fuel is extremely dangerous if not operating correctly and any system that is showing signs of problems must be fully checked competently.

"A more modern powerful one" I take it as the circulating pump and if it is a 25/60, then they cost around €135 plus labour so he either did not put in a 25/60 or he put in an extremely cheap brand.


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## Sandals (22 Jan 2012)

Shane007 said:


> This is hard to comment on as you are not fully describing the issue.



Sorry...Ill ask my husband exactly what was done during the day.

Its a Tuscon circulating pump GDP (25-6S) series from the box he left behind, is this a "good" one. The old one was a Salmson, made in France. 

Last night the water was roasting and rads all got hot. 

We cant find another plumber working as all have left but one other chap who has the nickname "Leaky" for obvious reasons!! This lad came recommended to my husband and in fact seems to be lined up to plumb a relatives house.


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## Shane007 (22 Jan 2012)

Tuscon pump is bottom of the range. It's a €45 pump. The quality pump I was referring to is Grundfos.

With regard to the rest, it is still hard to comment. If you had heard a bang and now it is working, it was probably an air lock that released with heat. Changing a circulating pump would not cause an airlock unless he drained the system down to change the pump valves.

Another cause of the bang and the overflowing water could have been a mouse stuck in the f & e pipe. What happens is a mouse falls into the f & e tank (small tank), drowns and gets stuck in the outlet that feeds your heating system. This causes your system to have no expansion. It then expands through the open vent safety pipe, thus filling the tank and overflowing. The bang could have been the mouse being released. Check the ceiling of the roof for signs of a splattered mouse! The stronger head of pump could have been enough to shift the mouse or other blockage.

Other issues would still require further investigation.

Sounds like you should indeed stay away from "Leaky". Great name though, lol! I would have loved to have seen the work that earned him that name.


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## Sandals (23 Jan 2012)

Update is house was roasting all weekend, everybody noticed immediately on entering the hall, the playroom which never got really hot on range and was toasty. So whatever he did, its improved the system. The grit in the bath disappeared and the noises all gone. 

I asked my husband but he not fully aware either of what plumber did. he cut two lengths of copper pipe (the size of mans arm) between the cylinder and the ceiling and put in a egg cup like gadget onto the pipe. He kept talking about some "Loop".

We hav a €75 receipt from a local hardware for the pump, 

Leaky got the name from all the work he did on local estates (just qualified at the time), terrible plumbing issues (in a family member who was renting one of them, whole ceiling in sitting room destroyed as toilet, hand sink and square shower leaked, bits under the sink leaked to the point kitchen doors wouldnt fit into the cabinet to close as they had flush look/design, hot tap has cold water label so u must remember to twist the cold tap to get ur hot water in bath.. ) , 

will check 4 the mouse, oh my god, douth its that as we'v never had that issue....


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## Shane007 (23 Jan 2012)

It sounds like he done a decent job and there should be nothing more to worry about. As I say, it is very hard to comment remotely with limited information. Glas it is sorted.


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## Sandals (4 Feb 2012)

Plumber here again tis morning, took 11 rads off and flushed them out and filled system again, as only top half of some rads were getting hot, another €170, hope this is the last visit.


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## Shane007 (4 Feb 2012)

If sludge is the problem, removing the rads and flushing them out by hand will only alleviate the problem temporarily as this will not remove all of the sludge. There will also be sludge build up within the stove and boiler. This will be circulated to the rads again and the issue will rise its weary head once again in the not so distant future. If indeed sludge is the problem, then you will require a full system Powerflush.

I would stop giving this guy money repeatedly and get a definitive answer on what the actual problem is. By the sounds of what you are saying, he is just going through each part of the system, guessing where the problem is and by process of elimination, he will hopefully solve the problem. In the meantime, he is charging you for every stage of the process. If he told you previously what the problem is and charged you to fix it, then why are you paying again for a previously paid for solving of that problem.


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## Sandals (5 Feb 2012)

after he let, put on range and after a while hot water coming out of overflow pipe again, husband rang him and he said the ball cock may need looking at, into hardware and bought a new bit for €5, fitted it ourselves. Water did stop flowing out but we both douth the system will work as it did previously....I get the point about the payment of course....suppose we just want it fixed and when something isnt your area very confusing. Thanks for the info Shane007, husband will just loooove to hear your update.


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## Shane007 (5 Feb 2012)

It could be time to resort to "Leaky"!!!


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