# Replacing open fire with a stove query?



## Effie

Following my latest huge gas bill, I'm now thinking of putting in a stove into where my open fire place is positioned to help reduce my heating costs in the main sitting room where I spend a lot of time. 

Hopefully this might let me  reduce my use of the gas central heating which is costing me an arm and a leg at present. 

Don't know if it is worth considering getting in a boiler type stove given the set up costs.

The model I am looking at is an Esse 350 multi fuel stove as it appears on paper at least, to be quite compact as well as efficient. 

Has anyone any experience of this type of stove or their experience with stoves either boiler or multi fuel would be much appreciated.


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## billyjoja

I'm of the same mind myself. Looking at the Esse 300 non boiler inset stove. Those gas fires with open chimneys are a joke.


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## serotoninsid

recently installed a Stanley Oisin (non boiler) stove. I was looking at the possibility of having a boiler model installed. However, as it transpires I'm just as happy not to have gone that route. First of all, retrofitting it would have been an expensive nightmare. Secondly, with the boiler models, you really need to go for bigger stoves as you won't get as much heat into the room as a result.
I have used the Oisin rarely - and that may remain the case for the short/medium term. However, just sealing off that opening is a major improvement to the energy efficiency of a dwelling - and given that this particular stove was cheap as chips and I self installed, it will pay for itself even if I never use it - by making the house more airtight.
So, make sure you get a stove big enough to both act as a room heater and circulate hot water. As a result, be prepared to have the fuel available to feed a bigger stove.
Also worth noting is that there are a handful of proper room sealed solid fuel stoves on the market now ie. they have their own dedicated air supply. However, if you go this router, be prepared to spend much more and also take care that you get someone competent to install.


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## MacTheKnife1

serotoninsid said:


> stove was cheap as chips and I self installed.



Well done! Sounds like you have a real success with this. Would be interested to hear how easy it was to self install?? Any chance of a brief description of how you went about it?


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## serotoninsid

MacTheKnife1 said:


> Well done! Sounds like you have a real success with this. Would be interested to hear how easy it was to self install?? Any chance of a brief description of how you went about it?


A wealth of knowledge in this thread here in addition to other threads on both this forum and boards.
I'm no diyer but took my time at it and got the result I wanted. Although I didnt buy off them, gings in portlaoise seemed to be the cheapest for both the stove and the stainless flue adapters (which cost more than you would think) - so if your anywhere close, worth checking with them.


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## fmc

WE have sold a large amount of the esse 350 and have good reports back on nealry alll the only ones uunhappy said the noise of the chimney increased in high winds to a whistle. Esse said this should cure itself in time as some soot build up and changes the reverberations in the chimney. Only other complaint was too hot!!!
Could be installed by some one reasonably competent in diy.WE normally charge about E200 to fit as its a bit labour intensive.


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## PaddyBloggit

fmc:

Have you got a website? If you have I'd appreciate you PMing it to me.


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## shopgirl

fmc,  I would also appreciate contact details for you.

Many thanks


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## Sandals

Was today shopping for a non boiler stove for open existing fireplace. Told Mulberry Yeats suitable. Told €890 enamel and since home rang two other stores with prices of €1050 and 1035.  Anyone experience of this one. The sitting room is 18 foot by 19 foot. Thanks.


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## Effie

FMS, please can you elaborate re costs of fitting, when you say it is labour intensive, what exactly is involved in fitting it properly? 

 Also, re you being in the business, please can you give everyone a web link to you as I'm sure other forum members interested in going dowm the same pathway as myself, would be interested in having a look.


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## Effie

Sorry, should have put in FMC , not FMS!


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## PaddyBloggit

Thanks for the link fmc!


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## NHG

Sandals, our sitting room is 17 x 20 and we have a Jotul No 3 - its a dream and very easy to clean out and very fuel efficient, I have knowledge through friend of other makes and I would not go past the Jotul, even one set of friends are going to change theirs to a Jotul, they bought a cheapie stove after seeing ours thinking that all stoves would be the same, they can't keep fuel in it - I don't know the make, 2 other sets of friends have hunters and again very hard on fuel and not as much heat as from the Jotul.

I have stanley's (cheaper to buy etc) in some of my investment properties and they are harder to clean out, sharper corners etc and are not as fuel efficient as the Jotul.

Fenton Fires in greystones worth a visit.


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## Effie

Thanks FMC for your link.It is much appreciated! 

 Can I ask, my old fireplace is a tiled one, why then is it necessary to remove this given that the current tiles on it are fireproof? 

I'm not keen on granite and would like to keep my tiled fireplace and tiled hearth, is this not possible?


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## fmc

Hi Effie the reason is not the tiles but that most tiled or cast inserts have a canopy which means the stove cant fit flush againest the opening. On some inserts this can be removed but it then needs a plate to cover it off and doesn't look very pretty. A plate froma metal fabrication place can cost E100 appx and imho doesn't look right so I think the extra few pounds are well spent. thers is also one cast iron insert called the Georgian flat plate that the stove can go againest flush. Its a simple one with a single square band around it.


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## Effie

Went back to look at the Esse 350 yesterday.Still like the look of it but the price I was quoted for it was €1500+ which wasn't anything like what I'd been led to believe when I saw it originally.

If I have to replace my hearth and tiled fireplace too, thats going to cost me over 2500€ in total , an amount which I don't think I can justify spending at present

Has anyone come across this model or a stove with similar output cheaper here or in the North?


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## Effie

Thanks FMC for that information. Will have a look out for the insert which you mentioned. 

Thanks again.


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## fmc

where abouts are you effie?
The 350 with us retails at 1300 plus fitting but if we were changing insert as well we would reduce overall fitting charge. There shouldn't really be any need to replace the hearth.


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## Effie

Hi FMC I'm a mile and a half from central Dublin, bit of a hike from Sligo I'm afraid.


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## PaddyBloggit

fmc .... any chance you might do a run down on the pro/cons of the choices of stoves available and the associated features?

There are a number of threads on stoves ... it would be great if you did a key post on them. Brendan might consider making it a sticky .... in an area of the forum relating to green issues etc.


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## fmc

Good idea I,ll try to get something together Paddy, I'll keep it general rather than specific brand names.


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## Feek

FMC we want specific brand names really.

We are thinking of putting in a Stovax Riva 40 or 55 as they seem the most modern and easiest to retro fit into an existing fireplace. Cheapest quote so far is e1400 so they are not cheap. You do have to have a flush opening for them though. A few fireplace shops have recommended them as they work best for the Irish fireplaces.


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## Effie

Folks, I found this website this evening about Stove Ratings which in spite of being from an American perspective, I think should give everyone an interesting read. Here is the link:

http://www.hvac-for-beginners.com/stove-ratings.html


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## fmc

Not sure effie they seem to have scanned the websites more than actual reviews from people using them and they have arrow stoves with a very good review and good garuntee then stratford boiler stoves further down from the same company with not such a good review.
Feek the only reason I would want to keep it general is because i dont sell every brand of stove so have little feed back on say a Charnwood stove but I know by reputation they are good, also i dont want to be seen to be just pushing products i sell.


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## Feek

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up


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## Effie

Take your point regarding the review FMC but given that there are no other reviews out there that I know of, at least it is a starting point. 

I have now seen another fire which I think sounds promising called a RIVA Cassette fire made by Stovax. 

Has anyone any experience of these fires and any issues regarding them?


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## fmc

Agreed Effie stovax are very good casettes we sell a good few of them and our fitter has one in his own house. There are several people on here that have them I think.
The 40 fits a standard opening and is about 5kw out the 55 may need a bit of work and will depend on the height of the lentil/flue gather.


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## Effie

Thanks FMC. 

I am thinking of getting one installed as a hole in the wall but doing the preparation work of removing the old fireplace etc. before getting someone in to install it. 

DO you by any chance know anything about the  additional vents which I have been led to believe can be got with this system and how far from the cassette can they be positioned and just how good are they? Is there any difficulty with venting to an upstairs room from downstairs without there being an issue with possible breeching fire regulations do you know?


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## Marrduff

Hi I am looking for a good price for Riva 55 and none of them came even close to €1400.  I'd be very grateful if you could you let me know where you got this quote from.  Thanks


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## fmc

Marrduff not sure where that price was if it was ex vat then maybe but we are usually E1900 inc vat E1563.00 ex vat. If you can get it at E1400 inc vat go for it.


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## dennigerz

If you are looking for cheap stoves check ouy qualitystoves.co.uk, you will not get them anywhere cheaper, i'v nothing to do with the company but i'v done a serious amount of research into looking for a bargain, even after you pay for delivery into the country they still work out way cheaper in comparrision to just buying them in the shops here. Hope this helps


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## galwaygalway

hi
i'm planning on changing my open fireplace and putting in a solid fuel stove(non boiler).  the inset stove  has been recommended.  have any of you any recommendations as to the best type of insent stove available ? the stove that i have been recommended is called the Kenia 60 has been recommended.  any advice would be most welcome.


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## cgc5483

I have a related query. I'm removing a fireplace and replacing with a stove which will set on a new granite hearth. I've seen several samples in brochures etc but am wondering the best way to finish around the old fireplace. Would rendering it with a sand mix be best or would plasterboard be suitable. Would attach an example if i could figure out how. Some pics on this link:


[broken link removed] 

Thanks


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## fmc

Galway galway depends on the room size and fireplace opening size. A kenia 60 will not fit into a standard opening so unless yours is bigger you may have the cango out.

cgc again depends on how far from the wall the stove will be usually a double skin of plasterboard is used a sand screed would be fine but may crack if too much heat is near it or too much heat is used too fast.


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## galwaygalway

hi fmc

the room dimensions are 3.9m x5.3m. 

the size of the fireplace opening is as follows (just measured it!)  the opening is 18inches in width, the depth from back of fire to front of grate is 12.5inches (the backing of the fireplace is not concrete but is part of the fireplace).  i think i can take out the inner part of the firesurround so that i can keep the main part of my fire place surround.  if you think the kenia 60 is not suitable is there any other inset non boiler type of stove that you would suggest and why?


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## fmc

Well a picture if poss tells a thousand words. If you remove fireback which is 18 and and assume 2" each side of that =560mm so it could be tight but I would say you could shave another bit if needed with a saw or cango also need to check the height from your hearth to the pre cast flue gather as this will be difficult to adjust if needed . If your keeping your existing fire surround  you will be left a 3" gap between the surround and the wall that needs to be tiles or filled assuming a standard f/p is there.

On the  basis of an 8ft ceiling a 5-6kw stove is loads. imho an easier installation would be esse 350, riva 40 or bronpi bristol from the same company that do the kenia.
Reasons: Straightforward install loads of heat only downside being you wont have as big a viewing area of the fire and cant use very large logs.


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## galwaygalway

Hi fmc

thank you so much for your help and advice.  i really want the view of the fire, which is why i went for the kenia.  at least now i have some idea as to what is needed, i will need to get someone to look at it for me though to see that the kenia will fit!!

thank you so much, i must get someone to measure the fireplace correctly for me so i get the right one!  do you happen to know how much the kenia is and if you stock them?
dympna


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## fmc

Hi Dympna,
I don't have it in stock but can get the Kenia 60 and retail is E1250 inc vat.
Theres more info on stoves and fuels on my blog which can be accessed vis the site on my signature. Give me a shout if you need any more info.


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## fluffy47

Hi Fergus

you mention a MulberryStoker solid fuel stove on your blog-I cant find any information on the Mulberry site about it. As I have explained to you before we have a fireplace in our sitting room with a back boiler servicing 10 rads in the house. We really want to tighten up the house more and feel that the stove is the way to go. Can you tell me anything about the above stove.

Many Thanks yet again


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## fmc

Hi fluffy,
The Mulberry stoker is just released and stocks are low at present but its not a boiler stove so may not your situation. Its about 6kw output but would normally insert againest the fireplace and would require a fireback in place. It wont heat any of you back boiler and the back boiler would need to come out and be replaced by a fireback.

To heat 10 rads via the fire I think your looking at Stratford Si40 from arrow, similar model from Charnwood but dont know the name, greenswitch from esse modeled along the lines of the esse 350 but has a boiler but is more expensive than it should be imho, Parkray consort. All these range price wise from E1700-E2400 but giive only a smalll amount of heat to the room 2-3kw on avg so may also have the rad in the room being fed from it too which is usually the case anyway.


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## galwaygalway

hi fergus

do you sell riva 55 and what do they cost?
thanks


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