# tax on rent-claim wear&tear for kitchen?



## bob24 (22 Oct 2007)

Hi,
Does anyone know if depreciation against a fitted kitchen is allowed when calculating depreciation for wear and tear. The revenue booklet says 
"a claim can be made for a wear and tear allowance based on the cost of the furniture and fittings"​ 
I put in a new kitchen last year proir to first rental.​ 
Thanks​


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## asdfg (22 Oct 2007)

See the [broken link removed] and what "What expenses cannot be claimed for?" 



> Capital expenditure incurred on additions, alterations or improvements to the premises


 
So No it can't be claimed 

It can however be claimed against your CGT bill whenever you sell the property


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## bob24 (23 Oct 2007)

Thanks for reply.. that's was I was thinking


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## Bronte (23 Oct 2007)

I'd dispute that ASDFG, a kitchen is a necessity, say you have a 20 year old kitchen falling to bits and you put in a new one to replace the rotting from damp one for example?


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## asdfg (23 Oct 2007)

> a kitchen is a necessity, say you have a 20 year old kitchen falling to bits and you put in a new one to replace the rotting from damp one for example


Fair point, and I am not an accountant, but under what heading do you claim. Do you consider a fitted kitchen to be furniture & fittings. If so your defination would be a very loose one. If you are not going to capitalise the fitted kitchen I would get professional advise about this.   

If the cost is substansial and is part of the building you capitalise it. Otherwise you can write it off to wear and tear each year. You would not capitalise curtain poles etc.  

Also, your insurance company would consider the fitted kitchen to be part of the building for insurance purposes  



> *What expenses can be claimed for Wear and Tear?*
> 
> If a premises is let for residential purposes and it is furnished, a claim can be made for a wear and tear allowance based on the cost of the furniture and fittings. It will be necessary to retain an itemised list of expenditure incurred each year.


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## Bronte (23 Oct 2007)

Nowadays I would consider kitchens to be fittings, replaced circa every 10 years or so.  Windows are also another interesting question.  If you have old wooden windows that are rotten do you fix them (nearly impossible) or do you put in double glazing which is cheaper.  I know it improves the house but really it's a repair?  Can be argued both way in my opinion.


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## webtax (23 Oct 2007)

Bronte said:


> Nowadays I would consider kitchens to be fittings, replaced circa every 10 years or so.  Windows are also another interesting question.  If you have old wooden windows that are rotten do you fix them (nearly impossible) or do you put in double glazing which is cheaper.  I know it improves the house but really it's a repair?  Can be argued both way in my opinion.



A key question as to whether it is a fitting would be: could it be removed and put into another premises? 
Windows couldn't but a replacement hob/boiler could, for example.


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## Bronte (24 Oct 2007)

I've seen ads for windows for sale second hand.  I know someone who installed a second hand double glazed window.  People throw out the most amazing things even perfectly good kitchen units/doors/worktops etc.


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## webtax (24 Oct 2007)

but how often does this happen in reality? since new windows would last for 20+ years and are an improvement to a house you would have a hard time arguing with the revenue that they are a repair cost that can be written off in one year.


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## Bronte (24 Oct 2007)

"Not if it qualifies under the Countrywide Rental Property Refurbishment scheme.

[broken link removed]  "


The above is from Nige's advice to my post on the 17th October.  So I think the kitchen can be written off as capital depreciation - depending on when it was installed.


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## sam h (24 Oct 2007)

I replaced an old kitchen & bathroom last year and wrote it all off in one year as they were replacements.  I sent a letter to the tax office explaining that was the reason the expenses where so high.  They didn't seem to have a problem with it.


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## DonKing (24 Oct 2007)

sam h said:


> I replaced an old kitchen & bathroom last year and wrote it all off in one year as they were replacements.  I sent a letter to the tax office explaining that was the reason the expenses where so high.  They didn't seem to have a problem with it.



Don't take no response from them that everything is in order. If there is a problem then they can claim interest and charges. 

What you have done dosn't seem right to me. You have replaced fixtures and fittings not made repairs.

You should seek professional advice. I would say there is a good chance you could be facing an audit.


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## asdfg (24 Oct 2007)

Both of the following posted by Bronte

Appears to be conflict here


> Nowadays I would consider kitchens to be fittings,


 


> So I think the kitchen can be written off as capital depreciation


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## Dreamerb (24 Oct 2007)

asdfg said:


> Both of the following posted by Bronte
> 
> Appears to be conflict here


How so? 

Fixtures and fittings are depreciable at 12.5% a year. Looks consistent to me.


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## asdfg (25 Oct 2007)

Yes sorry about previous post. please forget it. not thinking straight


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## Bronte (25 Oct 2007)

Sorry if I'm being confusing. It actually is confusing.  Back to the OP's original post, if the kitchen was put in prior to a first letting it cannot be claimed under the rule of prior letting expenditure not being allowed.  

Under the depreciation rules furniture & fittings can be claimed under wear & tear currently 12.5 percent per year (for 8 years).  This also applies if you buy furniture later etc.  

What is not clear is whether a kitchen/windows is allowed under the wear & tear - some say not as it's capital appreciation, enhancement expenditure, which is not allowed to be written off.  Sometimes you replace something that is rotten but it could also be seen as increasing the value of the property.  Revenue are not clear on this.  See SamH's post (and I have personal experience of it myself).  

Also just to make it more unclear there is the Countrywide  Rural scheme (only learned about this myself this week) which seems intended to prod landlords into doing up old properties (new kitchens/bathrooms/windows etc) to bring them to year 2007 standards and is allowed at I think 15 % for the first 6 years with 10 % in the last year = 100% write off.  (This scheme is being phased out. 

If the OP cannot get his kitchen to be written off under any of the above he can write it off under CGT when selling.  

Just to add that the revenue guide to rental income does not as far as I've noticed point out the Countrywide scheme, nor does it clear up enhancement expenditure versus wear & tear.  

Samh wrote a letter to the revenue outlining what he had done.  He's been open and honest and if he was incorrect surely the revenue should write to him saying it was disallowed.


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## bob24 (25 Oct 2007)

Thanks for all the replies... it seems that no one can come to a conclusion about this... I have since asked a few more people about it, they too think that is should be allowed under depreciation of furniture and fittings but are not 100% certain.. i'll post again if i get any concrete answer


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## sam h (25 Oct 2007)

> Don't take no response from them that everything is in order. If there is a problem then they can claim interest and charges.
> 
> What you have done dosn't seem right to me. You have replaced fixtures and fittings not made repairs


.

I was told by someone that as they were replacement cost rather than fit out cost I could write them off in one year. I wasn;t too sure and thats why I worte the letter as it wouldn;t really make much difference to me if it was written of in one year or at 12.5% each year.  

I did hear back from the revenue when they wrote to advise of my ammended tax credits.  I reckon the revenue have bigger fish to fry than litttle ole me who does file & pay my taxes and I even write nice cover letters.


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## minion (25 Oct 2007)

Kitchens rot and fall apart due to general wear and tear, water damage, rot etc .  They need to be *Repaired* every now and then.


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## ubiquitous (25 Oct 2007)

The bottom line on all this is that common sense rules apply and the how these rules are applied depends as much on the facts of each individual case as on anything else. As with all tax issues, if there is genuine doubt, it may be advisable to get professional assistance, particularly if there are reasonable amounts of money at issue in terms of tax savings and/or liabilities.


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