# A sticky situation: rent a room lodger slow to move out



## Noor77 (21 Feb 2006)

I need a bit of advice please!

I have had my own place and for 3 years and have had a lodger staying with me for all that time. She has the en-suite bedroom ( because I wanted the other one). Until recently she was paying €350 a month, with no bills - which is very, very reasonable for the location of the apartment. In September she went back to college full-time and has managed to get me to put the rent down to €250 (still no bills). I am quite culpable in the whole thing as I should never have let it get to this stage, but as we have become friends it was harder to be firm. Anyway, I have asked her to move out, as €250 a month is a drop in the ocean re: my mortgage and it has got to the stage where I almost feel like I am supporting her!. I told her I would let her stay until the end of May when her college exams are finished ....but she is making really heavy weather of this and saying she can't move out until July as she will need a full month after the exams to find somewhere. 

I am fed up. What should I do? I have tried to be reasonable but to no avail


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

Is this under the rent a room scheme or under the remit of a rent book/lease?


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## Noor77 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

Rent a Room.


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## SteelBlue05 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

You are letting have a great deal there, not alone did you drop the rent but she doesnt contribute to any bills either?!

What is the going rent rate for your area?

You should explain to her that she is getting a great deal and that she needs to start paying towards the bills from now on. I cant see you increasing the rent back up to 350?

Sounds like you are being too soft!


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## Noor77 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

I have been too soft, but the problem was that we became good friends.

The normal rent for a double ensuite room in my area would be €450 - €500 excluding bills (for single occupancy)


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## SteelBlue05 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*



			
				Noor77 said:
			
		

> I have been too soft, but the problem was that we became good friends.
> 
> The normal rent for a double ensuite room in my area would be €450 - €500 excluding bills (for single occupancy)


 
Well, hopefully she can understand your point of view, if you are good friends then you can just say it straight out. 250 is too low but its going to be hard to ask to increase that again. I'd say ask for her to cover half the bills which is the norm.

Or if you want her out then point her in the direction of www.daft.ie. Give her the 4 week notice period and stick to it. Feck that, its your house and your mortgage and shes not exactly paying much rent. She obviously knows shes in a cushy situation.


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## Cati76 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*



			
				Noor77 said:
			
		

> I have been too soft, but the problem was that we became good friends.
> 
> The normal rent for a double ensuite room in my area would be €450 - €500 excluding bills (for single occupancy)


 
She is not your friend if she is taking advantage of the situation. You are paying the mortgage for the place and are losing money renting the room for such a low price when you could get almost double of what she pays you plus bills...She will have to understand this, and still be able to remain friends. A solution can be for her to pay 300 if she can't afford the 350 and the bills till July, and then for her to leave. You won't have a problem then renting it for the market value.


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## Sherman (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

It's a tough one alright. I think you're probably facing the prospect of losing her as a friend, no matter what happens. Of course, if she really valued your friendship she would see the hardship you were under and would understand.

At the end of the day, it is not your responsibility to help her get through her exams - it could be argued that you've helped her quite enough already by effectively subsidising her return to college - don't be shy in reminding her that in any other rental situation she would have been paying €450-€500 plus bills.

It's only February now - tell her she's extremely lucky that you're not just giving her a month's notice straight away, and that it is a (very generous) gesture of friendship that you're allowing her stay till after her exams. How do you know she won't go home straight after her exams, and then you'll be left high and dry?


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## car (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

Make sure the rent keeps coming until in the end.  Someone with 3-4 months grace might see nothing wrong with "slippage".  Next thing you know, she owes you the guts of a grand, she knows shes leaving " yeah I'll pay next week" then shes gone, and she thinks youre soft and wont go after her for it.  Probably wont happen, but watch for it.   
Personal experience.


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## CMCR (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

Taken from Oasis: 

"If you choose to rent out a room(s) in your home, you aren't covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland. This means that you are not obliged to register with the PRTB as a landlord, provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards. 

This also means that private tenants living in your principal home are living under a "Licensee Agreement" *not* a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to "reasonable notice" if you choose to terminate the agreement."

The [broken link removed]: 

You are correct that it's a difficult situation, particulary given you have become friends.  However, bear in mind this is also a commercial transaction and the purpose of renting out this room is to assist with your mortgage repayments, not support someone else to obtain their education, to the detriment of your own income.  

You are correct in that you have been culpable in this matter but your rights are fairly clear.  Your options now are either remain being taken advantage of, or resolve this matter by acting firmly.  

I suggest you assert yourself and confirm termination of your agreement, preferably in writing.  Listen to the protestations but be firm and remember it is unreasonable to say it will 'take until July to find alternative accommodation'. There are a huge volume of estate agents, letting agencies, private advertisements, etc. that offer accommodation.  Your friends problem however is that she realises it's highly unlikely she will obtain accommodation anywhere in the Dublin city area for €250 (including bills).

If this person is a genuine friend, they will realise they are being unreasonable in expecting you to provide below-cost accommodation to them while you suffer financially.  

Hope things work out and do post again to let us know how things resolved themselves.


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## Noor77 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

I am very much to blame myself though as I am a bit of a soft touch. Last year she went away for 2 months and I let her keep the room at a 50% rate!


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## Noor77 (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. 

I am just fed up with the situation. She is now on at me to get broadband - which of course she is assuming I will pay for. I put my foot down and said no!!!


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## nelly (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*

friends and money don't mix, shakespere - "neither a borrower nor a lender be"(apart from your mortgage that is)
what are you her mother?, Ah you go back to school pet, i'll pay for the sky & bins and all that silly stuff.... - she IS taking advantage, ans if she was a friend she would at least admit it. 

You sound like you are lacking some assertiveness - you see the problem, know the  tack you have to take and you need to keep repeating it firmly when it comes up for discussion. Ignore the " it won't be till July" line, it will be because you will be showing her room from June onwards - what is stopping her moving out now, before her exams?

Good luck - its a rotton situation to be in. 

(for all my preaching i lack any and  and all assertiveness but find selective deafness and repetition is the only way to keep my cool and control of the situation. )


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## damson (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*



> she is making really heavy weather of this and saying she can't move out until July as she will need a full month after the exams to find somewhere.


 That's assuming she doesn't start looking until after the exams. But why can't she start looking now? She's hardly going to be studying 24/7 from now until June.


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## DrMoriarty (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*



			
				Noor77 said:
			
		

> She is now on at me to get broadband!!!


If this were my kid, I'd (a) be very glad she had such a 'softie' landlord, but (b) give her a clip around the ear for her cheek! _(Oops, sorry, that's not allowed any more...)_

Is this friend-tenant finishing College this year? Staying on next year? I can understand you facilitating her with 50% rent for the two vacant months, rather than go through the hassle of finding another lodger that you can get on well with, _but_...


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## MargeSimpson (21 Feb 2006)

*Re: A sticky situation*



			
				Cati76 said:
			
		

> She is not your friend if she is taking advantage of the situation.


I have to agree with Cati76 here. No friend would take advantage like this. She knows that she is on to a good thing here. I was in a similiar situation some time ago and I was glad to be rid of them. Bite the bullet, tell her how you feel, cause in the long you're NOT loosing a friend - just a leach.


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

I know I am to blame. 

We weren't friends to start with but obviously when you live with someone you become closer. I have learnt a hard lesson though. I suppose I went for the comfort factor of continuing to live with somebody I knew for a lesser amount of money than I would otherwise have gotten.

She isn't Irish and in her culture people tend to do favours for friends - I suppose she now feels in some way that I should be facilitating her drop in income.

My friends think I should ask her to leave asap but I would feel a bit bad if she messed up her exams because of the move


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## DrMoriarty (22 Feb 2006)

Noor77 said:
			
		

> I told her I would let her stay until the end of May when her college exams are finished ....but she is making really heavy weather of this and saying she can't move out until July
> [...]
> ...in her culture people tend to do favours for friends - I suppose she now feels in some way that I should be facilitating her drop in income.... I would feel a bit bad if she messed up her exams because of the move


 
*ma·nip·u·la·tion* [broken link removed] ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) *Pronunciation Key* (m[broken link removed]-n[broken link removed]p[broken link removed]y[broken link removed]-l[broken link removed][broken link removed]sh[broken link removed]n) _n._ 


The act or practice of manipulating.
The state of being manipulated.

Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage.


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## Sherman (22 Feb 2006)

I see your dilemma, Noor, but in all fairness, you are in no way responsible for her performance in the exams - by the sounds of it, you are in fact facilitating her studies greatly.

Whether she is from a different culture is immaterial - she is living here now, and is taking advantage of your generosity - try telling your bank manager that she is from a different culture and that's the reason you're having difficulty with your mortgage payments  .

Although it will be hard, this really is a case of having to grab the bull by the horns - she is taking advantage of you, plain and simple. 

She is a grown woman, with over 3 months to go to her exams - many people have had far worse things happen to them 3 months before their exams, and have managed to come through them perfectly well. As posted before, DAFT.ie and other sites are positively overloaded with apartments/rooms to rent. 

I really would get her out now - otherwise you'll be kicking yourself come July - also, how do you know you'll have the guts to force her out in July? You've already learnt an expensive lesson regarding 'friends' and money - you shouldn't let it become even more expensive!!

If you won't help yourself, Noor77, then who will?


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

Dr. Moriarty; if you are trying to make me feel even worse you have succeeded!


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## DrMoriarty (22 Feb 2006)

Quite the contrary — I was making the point that your _'friend'_ seems to be trying to make you feel worse!

I think you've admitted yourself that you've been 'soft' on her, and it seems to me that you're being repaid with some none-too-subtle emotional blackmail.


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

Sometimes I feel like the worst thing is that she doesn't seem to think that she is an any way taking advantage of me. I am now counting down the days until she goes. I have had to tell a white lie and say a friend is moving in ...as if I was to just ask her to leave without giving a concrete reason such as that she would just drag out the day of her departure .......


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## DrMoriarty (22 Feb 2006)

Noor77 said:
			
		

> she doesn't *seem* to think that she is an any way taking advantage of me...


Of course she doesn't let it _appear_ that way to you. But surely she can't be blind to what she sees others around her paying for a comparable set-up?

If a white lie is the easiest way out of it, then so be it.


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

I am starting to fantasise about going home and giving her one months notice!


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## Itchy (22 Feb 2006)

Just do it.


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

I should, but I can't.

Another thing that gets me is that since the drop in rent she has managed to get an annual subscription to the Economist and a swanky new computer!!!


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## delgirl (22 Feb 2006)

She's clearly taking advantage - if you're worried about her reaction, get a close friend or relative to be with you when you give her the notice and put it in writing.


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## Cati76 (22 Feb 2006)

Noor77 said:
			
		

> I should, but I can't.
> 
> Another thing that gets me is that since the drop in rent she has managed to get an annual subscription to the Economist and a swanky new computer!!!


 
You have heard what people here have to say. She is more than capable to pay the market price if she is after buying a new computer, getting a subscription to the Economist, etc etc....SHE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, get rid of her, as someone say before get someone close, a real friend or a family member to be there when you tell her to leave in a month (if not sooner), and don't be soft, no matter what she says, she has to be out of your house, you will be loosing a "friend", but I am sure you will win much more (money wise, you will be able to rent the room for the real market price). DO NOT GIVE IN WITH BROADBAND, she has take enough advantage of you, but you don't seem to see it as clearly because you seem to be to good ( I wish I had a landlady like you when I was studying and working full time to be able to afford to live). Let us know what you decide to do, and the outcome.


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## jem (22 Feb 2006)

give her 2 weeks notice in wrighting asap.
tell her that some one else is moving in the following monday. and walk away.


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## Sarah W (22 Feb 2006)

I think you should have a relative appear who suddenly needs the room as soon as her exams are finished. Friends maybe but family comes first and this cousin/second uncle twice removed/long lost brother needs her room. Sorry and all that. Offer to help her pack if necessary.......

Sarah


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## pricilla (22 Feb 2006)

Of course she's not quick to move on, she's running rings around you!! 
She's making a mug out of you and she's not acting like a friend. Tell her you can't be subsidising her anymore, that she's gotten a good deal up to now and you feel its time you were able to breath again financially.
You sound like my boyfriend, he is one of those nice people that got involved with a *SPONGER,* (not me )check it out http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=23010


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## Sarah (22 Feb 2006)

It seems to be unanimous opinion with everybody here to get this lodger out ASAP ,so take smart advise and just do it. All the talking in the world wont change anything and the longer it goes on the more money/patience you lose.You know you have been taken advantage of as does everybody here and she knows she is getting a cushy deal so  now is the time to stop being soft on her.So you lose a lodger...no big loss when you consider that your not getting what you wanted/needed out of this deal.Your certinatly not losing a true friend...anyone who does what she is doing and expecting this much out of someone else regardless of her suitation e.g Exams, is not a nice preson and not to be trusted never mind calling them a "friend"! Its your house/money/life at the end of the day and as hard as it might seem or as bad as you might feel now, in the end it makes sence and might give you the confidance and knowledge if you where ever faced with a similar suitation.Let us know how you get on.
P.S
Never put off what you can do today, untill tomorrow!


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## Lauren (22 Feb 2006)

In situations like this, the best thing you can do is to be totally honest and up front with her. Print this thread...tell her you have support from totally anonymous people on the net!

Seriously though, it would be a very positive experience for you if you are able to be honest with her. You say yourself you have been soft and that probably irritates you too! Conversations/confrontations that one dreads can actually turn out to be worthwhile and liberating imho!


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## Noor77 (22 Feb 2006)

If I try and change the date for her to go from June to say April or something she will just whine and make me feel like the worst person in the world!

Thanks for all the advice


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## Bluebean (22 Feb 2006)

Do you want her out or not? If you do, bite the bullet and either tell the truth (that you feel/know she is not contributing enough) or else lie (relative coming to stay, house being renovated, you're considering selling up, anything really).  
From what I can see, bottom line is the longer she stays, the more money she is costing you.  And you supposed to be sticking to a budget !

Stand up for yourself, otherwise  you will continue allowing her to walk all over you like a doormat.  She must be laughing all the way to the bank.


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## Sherman (22 Feb 2006)

> If I try and change the date for her to go from June to say April or something she will just whine and make me feel like the worst person in the world!


 
Oh FFS Noor! Just be an adult and get rid of her - she doesn't particularly care about you, so why the hell should you care about her?!  

Get rid of her, or you'll have a bunch of irate AAMers around at your place wanting to do it for you!!


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## DrMoriarty (22 Feb 2006)

Sherman said:
			
		

> Get rid of her, or you'll have a bunch of irate AAMers around at your place wanting to do it for you!!


What about us poor moderators who'll have to fend off _LaDestituta_'s outraged flame attacks, when you throw her into the street...?


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## Bluebean (22 Feb 2006)

Maybe if _LaDestituta_'s reads AAM then she'll have her bags packed when you go home Noor - how good would that be?  Maybe you should print this thread out and leave it lying around - like stuck to her bedroom door  
Subtlety will get you nowhere in this situation I'm afraid - best of luck.


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## Thrifty (22 Feb 2006)

I think you are being used and i think the longer the let her stay the more she is going to perhaps try and guilt trip you. Just be aware of it and don't fall into her trap. Have you got a two or a three-bed room house? If she wants to pay a lower rent then at least give her the smallest room untill she moves out. Perhaps say that you could rent out the ensuite at a higher price. I would put your foot down. Perhaps talk to a friend or family memeber about it so you've got that emotional backup and support and to reassure you  that your not being a bitch - sounds like its difficult for you to confront her about these things. I know - i'm the anything for a quite life sort.


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## joanmul (22 Feb 2006)

Would you think of telling her that you are about to make an appointment with someone (real or otherwise) to show the room to with a view to taking in a replacement lodger.   Ask her nicely, as you seem to be perfectly capable of, when would be a suitable time and ask her to have the room presentable if needs be and also ask her does she mind you showing the room when she's not there.   Whether you do show to a person is none of her business but I think she would be getting a clear message.   To be honest, I wouldn't like to call someone like that a friend.   I have other less polite terms and the world is a very big place - she can't be the only friend you have - I hope.


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## Swallows (22 Feb 2006)

As I see the situation, you either get her out now , immediately,  or ask her to pay the going rate for the room plus her share of the bills between now and end of May. It's quite simple, It's not your responsibility to subsidise her education ( and she probably has plenty to manage on anyway) and if not, she can get a part time job to earn the extra money. Is this not what other students have to  do?.


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## Noor77 (23 Feb 2006)

I don't think I will look for anyone else to move in after she goes. Once burnt and all that....!!! Anyway, it will give me more freedom vis a vis entertaining Mr. Noor !! (he doesn't live with me obviously)


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## pricilla (23 Feb 2006)

Well I think you answered your own question there. 
Invite Mr. Noor over to stay for a few weeks, ask him to be as messy/ignorant/untidy as possible and keep walking around making rude noises etc. He is an untapped resource!!


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## Noor77 (23 Feb 2006)

Mr. Noor is, unfortunately, even softer than my good self. We are a right pair! Plus, he is dreadfully neat and tidy so he would be absolutely no help!!!


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## quarterfloun (23 Feb 2006)

You might also consider giving her a date that she has to be out by even if well in the future. She can then organise herself, storage etc. etc. and cannot claim "surprise" when the day arrives. You might consider writing DAYS to Go on the inside of your front door with a numeral in erasable pen


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## Noor77 (23 Feb 2006)

That's a good idea. ) I could make it like an advent calendar!

Failing that I may just have to get Mr. Noor to be a bit more alpha male ...


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## Seagull (23 Feb 2006)

Hide his razor and feed him exclusively on beans and cabbage. That should sort out the neat and tidy part. Then keep him sleep deprived to make him grumpy. The downside is that you'll also have to live with him in this state.


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## CCOVICH (23 Feb 2006)

Will you have any difficulty in paying the mortgage if you do not re-let the room?


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## Gordanus (24 Feb 2006)

Noor77 said:
			
		

> Mr. Noor is, unfortunately, even softer than my good self. We are a right pair! Plus, he is dreadfully neat and tidy so he would be absolutely no help!!!



Is he shy?  Get him to hang around the kitchen and living room wearing only towel after frequent showers! (Love the beans and cabbage idea! )


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## Noor77 (27 Feb 2006)

I think if I was to implement the beans and cabbage thing, I would end up moving out before my Holly Golightly )


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## CCOVICH (27 Feb 2006)

Let's try and keep this in this forum and not give the moderators a reason to move it to Shooting the Breeze.

Thanks.


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## Noor77 (28 Feb 2006)

I bit the bullet yesterday and gave her a months notice! I feel both heartless and strangely liberated!


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## delgirl (28 Feb 2006)

Well done Noor77, how did she react?  Probably devastated that the gravy train has ground to a halt!  It's likely now that her true colours will come to the fore.

Be prepared for a possible attempt to persuade you to change your mind and stick to your guns!


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## Noor77 (28 Feb 2006)

Well, she was none too impressed. I gave her a story about Mr. Noor putting pressure on me to move in with him and that I might have to let out the whole place etc....


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## pricilla (28 Feb 2006)

Well done. As my sister says, every parasite needs a host, and you are not going to be her host anymore so WELL DONE!!!


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## Janet (28 Feb 2006)

Just a word of advice based on my own experience - make sure to follow it up with a letter confirming.  You don't have to make a big deal out of it but at least that way she can't turn around and say later she misunderstood you.  As you say she's from a different culture there's a good chance there are also language issues which she could use as an excuse (no matter how good her English may be).  

We had this problem before with a French guy who was sub-letting a room in our rented house who was always late paying the rent and basically a pain in the neck to live with to put in mildly.  We told him to move out four months in a row but he always pretended he didn't know what we were talking about when it came near the end of the month.  Eventually ended up giving him a letter and having to get the landlord involved (which was very good of the landlord as technically it was our problem) as he just wouldn't take it from us (being mere women, we obviously didn't have a clue what we were doing!)


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## Noor77 (28 Feb 2006)

Oh, she knows what I mean alright. I think she is just shocked that I put my foot down for once!!!

I'm starting to feel a bit bad. Maybe I should have let her stay until the exams....... but it was just really getting to me and I felt I was being taken advantage of.

I think that's more or less the end of the friendship now. Unfortunate really.


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## Lauren (28 Feb 2006)

Noor...NO GOING BACK!!! U are not bad!


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## Noor77 (28 Feb 2006)

No, I'm not bad. Just somewhat stupid!

Thanks again for all the help. I will let you know how it goes!


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## Cati76 (28 Feb 2006)

Well done, now you have to stick with your decision, and do not let her do the guild trip on you. DOn't feel bad for asking her to leave before her exams, but she is not your responsability...she will manage somehow.
Let us know when she is out and how you get on with the house for yourself.


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## tiger (28 Feb 2006)

Cati76 said:
			
		

> Well done, now you have to stick with your decision, and do not let her do the guild trip on you. DOn't feel bad for asking her to leave before her exams, but she is not your responsability...she will manage somehow.
> Let us know when she is out and how you get on with the house for yourself.


 
Yes, I think be prepared for a "mini-crisis" a week or two before she's due to move out


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## jem (28 Feb 2006)

you have made the big step , dont go back on it. give her it in writing and check everything before she leaves


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## Noor77 (31 Mar 2006)

She moved out last night!

Freedom tastes sweet


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## delgirl (31 Mar 2006)

Great news - don't let anyone take advantage of your good nature again!


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## deem (3 Apr 2006)

Thats good, will have to go back and read the thread the whole way throught now,


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## Judybaby73 (3 Apr 2006)

Bloody hell! You poor poor thing. What a nightmare situation. I'm gald it all worked out...One last thing can I move in??? Bill free??? Like being at home only with no parents! Bliss! 

ha ha !


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## Noor77 (5 Apr 2006)

oOOOOOOOOOOOH - no more lodgers for me! Have learnt my lesson the hard way!


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## Itchy (5 Apr 2006)

How much do you reckon your kindness has cost you in this situation?


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## Noor77 (6 Apr 2006)

At least €6,000.


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## Grizzly (6 Apr 2006)

Have you seen or heard from her since?


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## Ron Burgundy (6 Apr 2006)

feck, its over, i was avoiding the soaps and reading this thread instead, you'll have to come up with another way to keep us amused.

ok get someone else in and this time sleep with them, that will make it better reading for us !!!!! and an std might spice things up as well.


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## Diziet (7 Apr 2006)

Ron Burgundy said:
			
		

> feck, its over, i was avoiding the soaps and reading this thread instead, you'll have to come up with another way to keep us amused.
> 
> ok get someone else in and this time sleep with them, that will make it better reading for us !!!!! and an std might spice things up as well.


 
What an unpleasant post on a generally interesting and good humoured thread. There's always one, I suppose.

Noor, well done, it ain't easy mixing friendship and finances.

cheers,
Diziet


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## Judybaby73 (7 Apr 2006)

Yeah well done. You are very brave!


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## CCOVICH (8 Apr 2006)

Not much point in leaving this thread open.

Locked.


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