# Is my Rabo deposit protected



## paddyc (30 Sep 2008)

I have some money on deposit with Rabo Direct, while I know they have a triple AAA credit rating etc is on the chance the do go bust is my deposit covered upto the 100k by the Irish government or am I dependent on whatever level of protection the Dutch central bank give as they are licenced by them ?


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## Compass (30 Sep 2008)

I'd like clarification on this as well. I thought the Rabo were only guaranteeing up to €40,000 under Dutch legislation but I hear this morning that they may be covered under this Irish initiative up to €100,000. Did I hear this correctly?


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2008)

Any use?


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## Compass (30 Sep 2008)

Not really. I'm sure I heard it reported on RTE1 radio this morning that Rabo deposits were protected up to €100,000 in addition to the limitless guarantee to Irish banks, but maybe it was mis reported.


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## BOC_1968 (30 Sep 2008)

Compass, I heard that too - the guy talking was RTE's Economic Correspondent George Lee and he was in quite an excited state. He did appear to say that Rabo was covered, but he was in full flow at the time and I just assumed his meaning got mixed up. Nothing I’ve seen here or elsewhere suggests that the Irish Government can provide deposit guarantee’s for bank’s not headquartered in Ireland. Rabo while they have an Irish operation is definitely not Irish (they say so themselves).


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## irishlinks (30 Sep 2008)

Rabobank is just covered by the Dutch scheme.


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## Towger (30 Sep 2008)

BOC_1968 said:


> Compass, I heard that too - the guy talking was RTE's Economic Correspondent George Lee and he was in quite an excited state. He did appear to say that Rabo was covered


 
Mr Doom and Gloom is having a field day. 

Here is what Rabo say, from their website: [broken link removed]

Deposit & Investor Protection Scheme? Rabobank is a member of (a) the Dutch Deposit Guarantee System and (b) the Dutch Investor Compensation Scheme, implemented by the Financial Supervision Act 2007 and related decrees. Broadly speaking, the Dutch Deposit Guarantee System deals with money - deposits in current and savings accounts - while the Dutch Investor Compensation Scheme is about securities held on your behalf by Rabobank. The Deposit Guarantee System and the Investor Protection Scheme will only become applicable if Rabobank enters into bankruptcy proceedings. However, Rabobank is a AAA-rated bank and consistently maintains these ratings. This is the highest level of creditworthiness that a bank can have. RaboDirect is the brand name of the internet bank that is part of Rabobank's Dublin branch. Accordingly RaboDirect has full AAA status.
*(a) Dutch Deposit Guarantee System*
The Dutch Deposit Guarantee System guarantees the interests of account holders, and applies to deposits in current and savings accounts.  Under the Deposit Guarantee Scheme, if Rabobank is unable to meet its obligations to repay a customer's balance, the customer is guaranteed to be repaid 100% of the first €20,000 of his balance, with 90% of the customer's next €20,000 also being guaranteed. Accordingly, the customer has a 10% own risk on that part of his balance that is between €20,000 and €40,000. In the case of a joint account, the maximum amounts set out above apply to each joint account holder.
*(b) Dutch Investor Compensation Scheme*
As a supervised Dutch bank, Rabobank is required to safeguard your securities and other financial instruments. This means that your securities are separated from the assets of the bank. Even if Rabobank goes out of business, you remain fully entitled to your assets. Practically speaking, you have in that case to instruct Rabobank to transfer your assets to another broker or bank. In the unlikely event that your assets are not identifiable anymore and have become part of the bankruptcy estate, the Dutch Investor Compensation Scheme may become applicable. If Rabobank is unable to meet its obligations to repay a customer's balance, the customer is guaranteed to be repaid 100% of the first €20,000 of his balance, with 90% of the customer's next €20,000 also being guaranteed.  
*(c) Procedure*
If Rabobank goes out of business, the Dutch Central Bank ('DCB') will start the compensation process. Certain information is available on the website of the DCB (www.dnb.nl) in relation to the Deposit Guarantee Scheme and the Investor Compensation Scheme. Parts of this site are also accessible in the English language. 

*(d) Which RaboDirect customers may benefit from the Deposit Guarantee Scheme and the Investor Compensation Scheme?*
Subject to very limited exceptions, in the unlikely event that Rabobank enters bankruptcy proceedings, the following types of RaboDirect customers may benefit from the Deposit Guarantee Scheme and the Investor Compensation Scheme:
(i) personal customers; 
(ii) sole traders; 
(iii) partnerships; 
(iv) companies who satisfy at least two of the following conditions: 

(A) a balance sheet total that does not exceed €2,500,000 per year; 
(B) a net turnover not exceeding €5,000,000 per year; and 
(C) a workforce not exceeding 50 people in the financial year.


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## Zeus (30 Sep 2008)

Hi,
Can anyone confirm, if the deposit protection announced applies to all deposit accounts, e.g. a deposit account held in the name of one's company as opposed to ones name (personal deposit account)?

Does this equally apply to personal current accounts and to business current accounts?

We have a large sum held in a deposit account, which is in our company name held in an Irish bank.
thanks.


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## irishlinks (30 Sep 2008)

Zeus said:


> Hi,
> Can anyone confirm, if the deposit protection announced applies to all deposit accounts, e.g. a deposit account held in the name of one's company as opposed to ones name (personal deposit account)?
> 
> Does this equally apply to personal current accounts and to business current accounts?
> ...



 The guarantee covers  all deposits (retail, commercial, institutional and interbank), covered bonds, senior debt and dated subordinated debt (lower tier II), with the following banks: 
  Allied Irish Bank, Bank of Ireland, Anglo Irish Bank, Irish Life and Permanent, Irish Nationwide Building Society and the Educational Building Society and such specific subsidiaries as may be approved by Government following consultation with the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator.


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## RaboDirect (30 Sep 2008)

paddyc said:


> I have some money on deposit with Rabo Direct, while I know they have a triple AAA credit rating etc is on the chance the do go bust is my deposit covered upto the 100k by the Irish government or am I dependent on whatever level of protection the Dutch central bank give as they are licenced by them ?


 
Thanks for your question.

Deposits at RaboDirect are guaranteed under the Dutch Deposit Protection Scheme. Which means 100% of your first €20,000 is covered and 90% of your remaining €20,000. That’s a total of €38,000. 

As you correctly pointed out, RaboDirect is part of the Rabobank group, the only (AAA) triple A credit rated bank in Ireland. No other Irish bank operating in the market has such a high credit rating. We are extremely confident in our ability to hold firm in difficult financial times and believe that our ability to do so is greater than that of any other retail bank operating here. 

[broken link removed] 

Rabobank has had its AAA credit rating from both Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s since 1981. That’s 27 years! Global Finance magazine currently ranks Rabobank 4th in its survey of ‘world’s safest banks’.

[broken link removed] 

As a co operative bank, we are not at the mercy of the stock markets, unlike some of our competitors and so have our customers best interest at heart.


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## Compass (30 Sep 2008)

From the RTE website:
"The safety of deposits of up to €100,000 in foreign-owned banks with branches in this country, including Ulster Bank, First Active and IIB, has already been guaranteed by the Government here. 
National Irish Bank, owned by Denmark's Danske Bank, has applied to the Department of Finance to be included in the scheme. It has received indications that it will be accepted.
Rabobank, which operates online, does not come under the €100,000 guarantee scheme as it does not have bank branches.
It is guaranteed for up to €38,000 under the Dutch scheme.
The safety of deposits of up to €100,000 in foreign-owned banks with branches in this country, including Ulster Bank, First Active and IIB, has already been guaranteed by the Government here. 
National Irish Bank, owned by Denmark's Danske Bank, has applied to the Department of Finance to be included in the scheme. It has received indications that it will be accepted.
Rabobank, which operates online, does not come under the €100,000 guarantee scheme as it does not have bank branches. It is guaranteed for up to €38,000 under the Dutch scheme."

So, because Rabo has no physical branches on the street, it appears to be treated differently. Hmmmm! Maybe time to move some funds...


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2008)

RaboDirect said:


> and so have our customers best interest at heart.


Surely you have your *members'* best interests at heart? After all the deposit rates on offer to *customers *are not that competitive any more?


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2008)

Compass said:


> From the RTE website:
> 
> ...
> 
> So, because Rabo has no physical branches on the street, it appears to be treated differently. Hmmmm! Maybe time to move some funds...


You seem to be assuming that _RTÉ _know what they're talking about here!


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## Compass (30 Sep 2008)

Right Clubman, maybe RTE are as confused as the rest of us!!

I did also ask Rabo for clarification and they replied thus:

"Thank you for your queries in relation to Deposit and Investor protection. As we are a triple A rated bank we are not at risk. If we were at risk our garantee would be reviewed. Rabobank is not stock listed, so we are not hurt by the recent turmoil on the stock markets worldwide.

In accordance with Irish and EU law, Rabobank is a member of the Dutch Deposit Guarantee System, implemented by the Financial Supervision Act, 2007, which guarantees the interests of account holders, and applies to deposits in current and savings accounts. 

Under the Deposit Guarantee Scheme, if Rabobank is unable to meet its obligations to repay a customer’s balance, the customer is guaranteed to be repaid 100% of the first €20,000 of his balance, with 90% of the customer’s next €20,000 also being guaranteed. Accordingly, the customer has a 10% own risk on that part of his balance that is between €20,000 and €40,000...... " etc.

So Rabo is triple A rated and we should rest assured, so they say.


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## Towger (30 Sep 2008)

Compass said:


> So Rabo is triple A rated and we should rest assured, so they say.


 
Ummm.. If you can believe the rating system: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com..._caused_Aaa_grades/rssarticleshow/3061029.cms


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## Towger (30 Sep 2008)

As I can edit the above post, I don't mean it as a go at Rabo. But at the rating systems. Dont forget at all these Toxic loans were rated 'AAA'.


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2008)

Towger said:


> As I can edit the above post


I presume you mean *can't *in which case why not? You should be able to.


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## Towger (30 Sep 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I presume you mean *can't *in which case why not? You should be able to.


 
No Edit button is appearing on the posts.


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2008)

Towger said:


> No Edit button is appearing on the posts.


Just on your posts this thread or forum or more generally?


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## Towger (30 Sep 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Just on your posts this thread or forum or more generally?


 
Just this thread.


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## LucanMan (30 Sep 2008)

ANSWER - RABODIRECT IS NOT COVERED BY IRISH GAURANTEE SCHEME !!!

WHICH BANKS ARE COVERED BY GAURANTEE (30th September 2008) 

The guarantee pledged by the Government today applies to six lenders - four banks and two building societies.
The move comes ten days after the Government increased the statutory limit for the deposit guarantee scheme for banks and building societies from €20,000 to €100,000 per depositor. 

Today's move sets no limit to the funds guaranteed at the six named lenders. The guarantee expires in September 2010: 

*The banks and building societies covered are:* 

Allied Irish Bank 
Bank of Ireland 
Anglo Irish Bank 
Irish Life and Permanent (Permanent TSB) 
Irish Nationwide Building Society 
Educational Building Society 

The guarantee also extends to subsidiaries of these banks and building societies. 

Other financial institutions, many of which are wholly owned by foreign institutions, are not covered under the new scheme. 

*They are:* 

National Irish Bank, which is owned by Danish bank Danske 
ACC and Rabodirect, which are owned by Dutch bank Rabobank 
Ulster Bank and First Active, which are owned by UK bank Royal Bank of Scotland 
Bank of Scotland (Ireland) and Halifax, which are owned by the merged UK bank, Lloyds TSB/HBOS 
IIB Bank, which is owned by Belgian bank KBC 
Irish credit unions 
Postbank, which is jointly owned by An Post and Belgian-Dutch bank Fortis 

However, the foreign-owned financial institutions above are covered by the Government’s previous Deposit Protection Scheme on sums up to €100,000 or, if they are regulated overseas (NIB and Rabodirect), they can make a request to the Financial Regulator to be covered up to this amount. 

NIB has applied to increase its protection to €100,000 and confirmed today that its depositors are now covered up to this amount, while Rabo has not applied to the regulator because they feel their Dutch parent bank is financially strong enough.


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## fragglewhv (1 Oct 2008)

http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/index.js...ID=2&UID=de310e29-59b8-45e2-a18f-1558db2526e9

this still puts rabo only under protection of dutch central bank ...


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## Brownie10 (1 Oct 2008)

Any bank regulated by the Irish regulator is covered by the €100k scheme.  Banks regulated by foreign regulators are covered by the relevant country's scheme which vary (please see that thread or itsyourmoney.ie)

The 6 banks covered by the full state guarantee (if they get it through the EU competition commissioner) are regulated here and do not have a foreign parent (albeit a high % of the listed banks is owned by overseas investors through the stockmarket)

The Credit unions misssed out as did Postbank(probably because they don't need it as they have no loanbook and no exposure to the hassles of the other banks, also would be long on cash, and are effectively stateowned anyway, 50% by the Irish Govt through An Post, and 25% by the Belgian/Dutch/Luxemburg Govts through Fortis with Fortis shareholders owning the remaining 25%).

The Credit Unions would be long on cash also.


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## Compass (2 Oct 2008)

I think there was some discussion yesterday that the government might move to protect Irish depositors of 'foreign' banks with a 'significant high street presence'. What does that last phrase mean? Does a bank have to have  'bricks & mortar' outlets?
Just curious, as the buzz words of the last few years have been e-commerce and e-government, e-this, that & t'other. Wouldn't it be ironic then and very telling if an e-bank like Rabo here is not included in any extension of the proposed scheme. All the e-verbage worth nothing and dissapearing into the ether!


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## LucanMan (2 Oct 2008)

In times of uncertainity it is probably wiser to have your funds safe.........no matter who says it is AAA rates !!!! AAA rated banks went under !!!

I switched majority of my funds from my Rabodirect to Ulster Bank online as ulster bank is guaranteed for €100K for single & 200K for joint account.

It is probably riskier to leave over €20000 in Rabodirect based on their current deposit protection.........in these uncertain times. 

More skeletons have to fall out of the cupboards as more banks start to book the value of their toxic assessts to market value in the coming quarters. May have a domino effect.


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## ClubMan (2 Oct 2008)

LucanMan said:


> It is probably riskier to leave over €20000 in Rabodirect based on their current deposit protection.........in these uncertain times.


Why? Your €20K would be 100% guaranteed under the relevant guarantee scheme?


> More skeletons have to fall out of the cupboards as more banks start to book the value of their toxic assessts to market value in the coming quarters. May have a domino effect.


This sort of vague rumour-mongering hardly serves much purpose?


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## D2WW (2 Oct 2008)

Is there any truth to Lucanman's assertion that AAA rated banks have gone bust?!! 
I just opened an account with them, and was going to put in excess of 20k.


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## jhegarty (2 Oct 2008)

LucanMan said:


> AAA rated banks went under !!!




Which ones ?


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## Sunny (2 Oct 2008)

jhegarty said:


> Which ones ?


 
I would like to know the answer to that one as well. If people are going to scare monger, can they at least do it based on facts.


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## RaboDirect (7 Oct 2008)

The Dutch government has agreed to increase its deposit protection guarantee to €100,000. This guarantee applies to RaboDirect which is regulated by the Dutch Central Bank.


For more information visit:


[broken link removed]


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