# First Active e-savings account



## mollser

I see First Active have launched an online savings account, offering 5.22% aer (Gross 5.10%) on balances up to €15k, 4.07% on balances >€15k.

They pay interest monthly, which I like!

Doesn't appear to be any catches with the interest rate.  Although it is variable, they haven't stated that this rate will revert to xx% after xx period of time.  Time will tell I'm sure.

Looks attractive as another high interest option to add to Rabo, NR etc.

Any thoughts??

[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan

Interesting. Bit of competition for _Rabo's _€10K @ 5% gross _CAR _it seems.


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## pc7

isn't it great - I love competition!


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## Jaid79

pc7 said:


> isn't it great - I love competition!


 
I guess Rabo will be reviewing their 5% rate fairly soon


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## ClubMan

Maybe - maybe not.


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## KalEl

€15,000 vs Rabo's €10,000 and 5.22% vs Rabo's 5%...sounds like a very positive step.
The regular savings market seems to get all the attention, maybe this will precipitate some action in the lump sum savings market. (here's hoping!)


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## GeneralZod

They don't seem to have any annoying rules forcing deposits/withdrawals through separate First Active accounts.


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## ClubMan

_Rabo _only require withdrawals to go from the savings account via their current account to the ultimate destination account. Deposits can go straight into the savings account. It's not that much hassle really in practice.


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## IrlJidel

Jaid79 said:


> I guess Rabo will be reviewing their 5% rate fairly soon



Article on  quotes Rabo  as saying they "had no immediate plans to raise rates".


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## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> _Rabo _only require withdrawals to go from the savings account via their current account to the ultimate destination account. Deposits can go straight into the savings account. It's not that much hassle really in practice.



AIB require all payments into their regular saver account to go via another AIB account. I find it annoying. Especially since AIB started applying charges on my AIB feeder account. 

In general it's an unwelcome complication.

Anyway this FA account looks ok. Think I'll open one and move some funds from NR over to it. I doubt NR or Rabo will respond to match it.


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## ClubMan

Yeah - but we're basically talking about lump sum accounts such as those from _FA, Rabo, NR _etc. here and not regular saver accounts!


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## GeneralZod

My response is that I was talking about an inconvenience the account didn't have. I see FA list "transfer from any nominated current account" as one of its benefits.


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## pc7

from above post from clubman is it better to move a few bob (lump) from rabo to this rather than using it for monthly savings? currently have lump in rabo that i add some to each month, applied today for this one was going to put a few bob in each month, have aib regular saver too more as slush fund is it better just having one and putting it all in? what do you guys think?


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## GeneralZod

If I understand your question right I'd keep up the AIB regular saver deposits since that has the best interest. Then move up to 15k into the FA e-account from Rabo and leave the rest in Rabo up to 10k. If you've that much cash it might be worth opening another regular saver with Halifax for example to take some of it.


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## pc7

thanks GeneralZod, only have 4k in rabo (not 10! - wish!) , I'll transfer that to fa once it opens and keep up my aib savings,


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## IrlJidel

Has any one been able to apply online?

They have an option for existing customers and I have a mortgage with them, but they only accept a sort-code/account rather than loan acc number.

So I select New Customer and fill in the form but then it says I fail to meet their security check requirements. 

"Unfortunately we are unable to progress your application at this time. Having carried out the standard checks described in the ‘Your Personal Data’ section, we are sorry to inform you following these checks you do not meet the eligibility criteria for this account.
You may, if you wish, request further information regarding how we assess each application."
                                                                          [broken link removed] 
I've always lived in Ireland but only moved into new home in Mar 2006. I've filled in my previous address. Of course, there's no link detailing their checks.


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## GeneralZod

I got through. Never heard of anyone being rejected for opening a savings account! Although the e-saver account wasn't presented as an option until a few screens into the wizard. Poor form design, seems to be part of a general application process.  I did think a couple of the questions were unnecessarily intrusive. e.g. are you a home owner, marital status, number of dependents. I don't see how any of these are relevant to opening a savings account. You even have to consent to a credit check being run on you. I've been at my address for 6+ years.


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## punter

Ulster Bank (First Active's twin sister) is offering a similar product, also called eSavings, using the same website (skinned differnetly). Same restrictions. Different rate - 4% all balances. (No 5% for balances under 15k)


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## ClubMan

pc7 said:


> from above post from clubman is it better to move a few bob (lump) from rabo to this rather than using it for monthly savings?


If deposits are the most appropriate home for your money then you should try to get the best rate. This may mean lodging the lump sum into one or more high rate accounts such as _FA/Rabo/NR _(e.g. up to €15K in _FA _+ up to €10K in _Rabo _etc.) and then drip feeding it (possibly via your normal current account possibly with another institution) into the most appropriate high rate regular saver account (bear in mind the terms & conditions, restrictions and rate guarantees with these vary so choose carefully).


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## ClubMan

IrlJidel said:


> Has any one been able to apply online?


For what? If you mean the _FA _account then I (as a new customer) went through the application online and it finished by saying that the stuff will be mailed out to me...


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## ClubMan

Oh dear... just went to try and apply online on behalf of another person and got this:


> This application is available from 6:30am until 9:30pm. Please try again during available hours.


Somebody should inform _FA _that the internet is usually open 24x7x365 (except for stocktaking and electron depletion mitigation on the 01/04 each year).


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## GeneralZod

They must have someone manually lugging the electrons about


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## IrlJidel

ClubMan said:


> For what? If you mean the _FA _account then I (as a new customer) went through the application online and it finished by saying that the stuff will be mailed out to me...



Well, the thread is called "First Active e-savings account" so I thought 'what' would be obvious.

I guess it doesn't like that I'm in present residence less that 2 years.


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## ClubMan

IrlJidel said:


> Well, the thread is called "First Active e-savings account" so I thought 'what' would be obvious.


Yes - but several other accounts were mentioned before you posted hence the confusion.


> I guess it doesn't like that I'm in present residence less that 2 years.


 Maybe that's it. I'll wait and see if my stuff comes in the post hopefully tomorrow.


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## pc7

Yup I opened 1 fine yesterday, maybe it was a glitch on their side, try again?


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## ClubMan

pc7 said:


> Yup I opened 1 fine yesterday, maybe it was a glitch on their side, try again?


What do you mean? Were you already a _FA _customer? If so did the application complete fully online? If not did it end with it promising to post the documentation out to you (since they presumably need money laundering ID  info etc.)?


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## IrlJidel

IrlJidel said:


> I guess it doesn't like that I'm in present residence less that 2 years.



Yes got onto the staff - problem was because I changed residence.

However, apparently the application process does some implicit actions.

I've been told that it has initiated some forms to be sent to me requesting some form of ID - which is fair enough even though I already have my mortgage with them.

Pity the online form does'nt tell you that - the impression I got was that my application was stopped dead in its tracks.


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## MugsGame

It's not completely clear what happens if you have €15,001 in the account.
Do you still get 5.22% on the first €15,000, or 4.07% on the whole balance?

For example, suppose you start with €15,000. 





> They pay interest monthly


After interest is paid the following month, you have more than €15,000, so could be on the lower rate. I wonder if that's the hidden catch... (still a good deal though, once you know about it!)


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## pc7

IrlJidel I moved house 2 months ago and put this on the form, they asked for my previous address and they let me fill in the application and said it was sucessful and the documents would arrive in the post. Mhh will be interesting to see if there is something wrong when it arrives.


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## ClubMan

MugsGame said:


> It's not completely clear what happens if you have €15,001 in the account.
> Do you still get 5.22% on the first €15,000, or 4.07% on the whole balance?


This question originally arose with _Rabo _too and they gave the full 5% on €10K and the lower rate on the balance. I suspect that it will be the same here but worth verifying to be sure.


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## Happy Girl

ClubMan said:


> Oh dear... just went to try and apply online on behalf of another person and got this: Somebody should inform _FA _that the internet is usually open 24x7x365 (except for stocktaking and electron depletion mitigation on the 01/04 each year).


 
Yep I just got the same. Ridiculous in this age of "Internet". Can somebody clarify for me if this is a lump sum investment or a regular savers account. Can I just lodge 15k into it and not make monthly contributions?


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## ClubMan

Happy Girl said:


> Yep I just got the same. Ridiculous in this age of "Internet". Can somebody clarify for me if this is a lump sum investment or a regular savers account.


Both.


> Can I just lodge 15k into it and not make monthly contributions?


Yes.


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## Happy Girl

Thanks Clubman for such swift reply. Am I correct in thinking that it would it be prudent to put 15k into this account given than there appears to be no better lump sum deposit account on the market.


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## ClubMan

If you consider a deposit account the best home for your money then this is a good home for it. You may be able to improve the returns by depositing the €15K and then drip feeding it into a suitable regular saver account at c. 7% but you'd need to choose the latter carefully to suit your needs as the terms & conditions and restrictions and restrictions (e.g. penalties for not keeping up regular contributions or withdrawing money "early") vary a lot. Check the _Financial Best Buys_ forum for more on lump sum, regular saver and fixed term deposit rates on offer.


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## oldtimer

I drip fed into a regular saver account with Anglo Irish Bank (currently 7%) 12 months ago and have just received the interest for that 12 months - €276.52 into my pocket. This would equate to the lump sum of €12,000 invested at around 3% before DIRT. I wonder did I really make that much by dripfeeding. On the upside I am hoping the €12,000 will now earn at least 7% for the next 12 months.


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## ClubMan

As I keep saying by illustration 12 monthly deposits of €1K at 7% gross _CAR _is not the same as €12K @ 7%. You can obviously make more money by depositing at c. 5% and then drip feeding into an account at c. 7% than just leaving it in the 5% account.


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## HughDenman

We have some money in a Northern Rock account; when the First Active eSaver was announced I was interested to see how splitting your money between three of the better deposit providers would affect the overall return after say 10 years, versus just leaving it all in Northern Rock. I did out a little spreadsheet, viewable here: [broken link removed]

I factored in DIRT by reducing the CAR by 23% (for example, I figure that the Northern Rock rate is 1.03465 after DIRT). & I assumed the rates are fixed over the ten years (quite unlikely?).

With an initial amount of 50k I think you'd make an extra 2.4% or so---over the 10 years. If you had 30k total at the start, you'd come out with an extra 4%. With 100k to start with, you'd get an extra 1.2%. 

Obviously, the less money overall, the greater the proportion earning higher interest (assuming 15k First Active + 10k Rabo), so the greater the advantage in splitting the money over the three providers.

I have no financial training since Junior Cert business studies. Bear that in mind if these figures are of interest!

Are there any other advantages to splitting across the three providers, beyond the potential increase in return?

Also, am I right in thinking that 2.4% over ten years translates to (10th root of 2.4) = .24% extra in the effective interest rate?


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## GeneralZod

Your conclusions make sense.

DIRT is 20% not 23%.

Over 10 years it would be better to put the money in the stockmarket, I take it this is a purely theoretical exercise.

Having it spread amongst 3 providers reduces risk a fraction. I think you're only guaranteed up to 20k if a bank goes bust. Reduces the risk of a bank error/strike (as used to happen) preventing access to your funds.

Yes, 10th root of 1.024 is 1.00237 approx.


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## brieli

Clubman

Could you please show by illustration how _12 monthly deposits of €1K at 7% gross CAR is not the same as €12K @ 7%. (You can obviously make more money by depositing at c. 5% and then drip feeding into an account at c. 7% than just leaving it in the 5% account)_

We have a lump sum deposit of 10k plus a monthly savings of €250 p.m.  We were going to put the €10k into First Active and the €250 p.m. into the EBS at 7% car.  However if I understand you correctly we should put the €10k into First Active as well as the €250p.m. into the First Active.  When it reaches €15k then drip feed into the EBS at 7%.  Can you please advise if this is correct?

Thank you


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## gordongekko

Would you not be better to lodge the 10k into first active and then to put 1000 per month into ebs from the first active account and the 250 into the first active account every month.


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## ClubMan

brieli said:


> Clubman
> 
> Could you please show by illustration how _12 monthly deposits of €1K at 7% gross CAR is not the same as €12K @ 7%. (You can obviously make more money by depositing at c. 5% and then drip feeding into an account at c. 7% than just leaving it in the 5% account)_


Use this calculator to see why. Basically 12 monthly lodgements of €1K at 7% returns less than €12K at 7% because in the first case only €1K is on deposit for 12 months and earns the full 7%, the next lodgement earns 11/12ths of that, the next earns 10/12ths etc. The last lodgement is only on deposit for one month so earns just 1/12th of 7%. (Roughly).


> We have a lump sum deposit of 10k plus a monthly savings of €250 p.m.  We were going to put the €10k into First Active and the €250 p.m. into the EBS at 7% car.  However if I understand you correctly we should put the €10k into First Active as well as the €250p.m. into the First Active.


 No - I never said that. You could be better off lodging the €10K with _FA_, then saving the €250 plus €750 from your €10K lump sum into the _EBS _7% account to maximise your returns.


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## gordongekko

ClubMan said:


> You could be better off lodging the €10K with _FA_, then saving the €250 plus €750 from your €10K lump sum into the _EBS _7% account to maximise your returns.


 


gordongekko said:


> Would you not be better to lodge the 10k into first active and then to put 1000 per month into ebs from the first active account and the 250 into the first active account every month.


 


Is that not what i said? i think you can only do one lodgement into the fa account!!!


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## ClubMan

gordongekko said:


> i think you can only do one lodgement into the fa account!!!


Where does it say that? The account accepts lump sums and regular savings so it's certainly possible to do more than one lodgement.


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## GeneralZod

gordongekko said:


> i think you can only do one lodgement into the fa account!!!



Hope that isn't the case. I'm opening it with €50 and then planning on transfering €14,950 from NR.
One of the questions in the on-line form was do you intend using it for regular savings or not. I got the impression from that it could be treated as a normal on-line demand deposit account similar to Rabodirect's or Northern Rock's on-line savings products.

Has anyone got the forms posted out to them by FA yet?


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## ClubMan

Still waiting on the forms having completed the online application on Monday.


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## GeneralZod

I think Gordongekko is right. Reading the T&Cs [broken link removed]

Assume they'll let one change the initial lodgement cheque from what was given on the on-line application form.

So reversing my earlier posts it looks like this account does have annoying restrictions


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## ClubMan

GeneralZod said:


> I think Gordongekko is right. Reading the T&Cs [broken link removed]
> 
> Assume they'll let one change the initial lodgement cheque from what was given on the on-line application form.


I don't see how those terms & conditions suggest that one can only make one lodgement? In any case the account can also accept regular saver lodgements so I can't see that they will be turning away non regular saver lodgements subsequent to the initial opening lodgement?


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## GeneralZod

From T&C 43.5 it sounds like all lodgements must come from another First Active account or a standing order.

In the on-line process they ask do you intend making regular payments. Must I now tell them that I will afterall make one standing order into the account assuming I can't at this stage send in a cheque for 15k. It would be a special standing order that will only have one payment.


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## ClubMan

Hmmm ... maybe _SO _includes an electronic transfer from a non _FA _account?


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## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> Hmmm ... maybe _SO _includes an electronic transfer from a non _FA _account?



That's the meaning I take from it. Hopefully this is a case of the wording for the T&Cs being a little more restrictive than the reality.  

If they let you make SOs into the account, it would be a lot of work for them to police how customers used the facility. From FAs perspective a single SO payment arriving from a 3rd party bank and a once off EMTS payment will look the same, no?


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## ClubMan

If, as seems to be the case, they are competing with _Rabo's _5% account then it would be crazy for them to be too restrictive on when and how account holders could lodge money.


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## SS expert

There is a 6.35euro charge on this account (per quarter)

are there charges on the Rabo / NR accounts?


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## ClubMan

SS expert said:


> There is a 6.35euro charge on this account (per quarter)


Are you sure that these charges apply to this account and not some other account covered by the same general terms & conditions? Can you link to info on this?


> are there charges on the Rabo / NR accounts?


 No maintenance/transaction charges with [broken link removed] or [broken link removed] - just some charges for stuff like same day electronic transfers (maybe only with _NR_?) which can easily be avoided.

So:

* Rabo*
€10K @ 5% = €500
Plus €5K @ 3.75% =  €187.50
Total = €687.50
Net of 20% _DIRT _= €550
*Rabo + NR*
_Rabo _€10K @ 5% = €500
Plus _NR _€5K @ 4.5% =  €225
Total = €725
Net of 20% _DIRT_ = €580
*FA*
€15K @ 5.22% = €783
Net of 20% _DIRT_ = €626.4
Less maintenance charges of 4 x €6.35 or €25.4 = €602


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## SS expert

I just rang tham, and they told me that the 6.35E is charged...
I wonder if she new that i was talking about the e savings a/c


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## ClubMan

Bit of a pain but still the best account for €15K on deposit as far as I can see. Hopefully no more nasty surprises in store for those awaiting the forms...


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## GeneralZod

That's a nasty sting in the tail.

The T&C doc mentions a "Tariff of charges" booklet but I can't find a link to it on the first active website.


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## ClubMan

Can't find the charges booklet online even after doing a _Google _site specific search of _FA's _website. I've emailed my local branch asking for a copy and will pick one up in the meantime if I'm passing. I received the completed online form today and they include the terms & conditions booklet but not the charges one. Poor form not to clarify to a new applicant what charges might apply.


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## GeneralZod

The more I think about it the harder I find the €6.5 per quarter charges report to believe.

It means the account needs an initial €623 balance just to cover the charges. So the effective minimum balance is not €1 as stated on their website.

€622.61 = 6.5 x 4 x 5/4 ÷ 0.0522

If it's true I hope First Active's competition milks it for all its worth.


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## Bazoo

Did anyone get their forms yet? Applied online last Thursday and wondering how long it takes. Also what were you asked to send in in terms of ID for money laundering regs.


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## ClubMan

Yes - as I mentioned above I applied online on Monday and the forms arrived in the post on Friday. For ID they need a photocopy (not certified) of passport/drivers license etc. and one original proof of address document (e.g. utility bill, bank statement etc.). Oddly enough they don't request any _PPSN_ documentation as most others do these days.


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## kibby

What's the access (or penalties) like on the FA e-saver?


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## ClubMan

Did you read the link posted in the original post?


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## kibby

Yyeesssss...

But the terms and conditions lists "additional terms and conditions" for their e-saver account: in addition to what?

Maybe I'll just give them a ring!


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## ClubMan

> Get direct access to your account *24 hours a day*.
> Transfer money *instantly* to and from your First Active accounts.


The other terms & conditions are available in _PDF _format from the _e-Saver _web page. Unfortunately (as mentioned earlier) the _FA _account charges booklet is not and it's not 100% clear whether or not any charges (in particular the €6.35 per quarter maintenance fee) apply to this account.


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## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> Can't find the charges booklet online even after doing a _Google _site specific search of _FA's _website. I've emailed my local branch asking for a copy and will pick one up in the meantime if I'm passing. I received the completed online form today and they include the terms & conditions booklet but not the charges one. Poor form not to clarify to a new applicant what charges might apply.


Whatever about not putting the booklet on their website at least _FA_ (_Phibsboro _branch) responded promptly to my email and stuck a booklet in the post for me. A lot better than many organisations that I have had cause to email some of which respond a lot more slowly and sometimes not at all (e.g. most recently the _EBS _who I have emailed via their website three times now asking for a regular saver account application form and who have not responded to these requests or a complaint that I logged subsequently).


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## mollser

Bazoo said:


> Did anyone get their forms yet? Applied online last Thursday and wondering how long it takes. Also what were you asked to send in in terms of ID for money laundering regs.



Yes, have the forms a couple of days now - do have an account with FA already, so annoying that they're looking for the money laundering documents again, but thats beyond their control.

Cant confirm the €6.50 charge, sounds unusual though and don't really believe it!

Forms going in tomorrow, so lets see how we go...


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## ClubMan

mollser said:


> so annoying that they're looking for the money laundering documents again, but thats beyond their control.


No it's not - if you are an existing customer whose identity/address has already been verified and that information is already on file then they should not be looking for it again. I thought that existing _FA _customers could do the whole application process online?


> Cant confirm the €6.50 charge, sounds unusual though and don't really believe it!


 Will post back when I get more info.


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## GeneralZod

Got the forms today. They didn't ask for any anti money laundering documentation. I assume this is because they're part of RBS and I've already an account with UB.

I rang them up to ask about the acceptable ways of making lodgements and the  €6.50 charge.

She said there is no €6.50 per quarter charge. She also didn't know that you could make the initial lodgement by cheque. It was embarrassing, I knew more about the account than she did. They really should train their staff properly before introducing new products.


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## mollser

ClubMan said:


> No it's not - if you are an existing customer whose identity/address has already been verified and that information is already on file then they should not be looking for it again. I thought that existing _FA _customers could do the whole application process online?



There's my answer - I have changed my address so they're looking for address verification, fair enough.


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## ClubMan

_Phibsboro _branch also thought that there was no quarterly maintenance charge but were not sure!


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## MugsGame

Has anyone clarified how balances over €15,000 are treated?


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## pc7

so are we sure yet or unsure of quarterly charge he he he its so confusing at this rate!


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## GeneralZod

MugsGame said:


> Has anyone clarified how balances over €15,000 are treated?



This taken directly from the First Active website.



> Get a great rate of 5.22% AER variable*
> (4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000).



So if you leave the interest payments in they'll be on 4.07%.


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## ClubMan

GeneralZod said:


> So if you leave the interest payments in they'll be on 4.07%.


Not necessarily. That's the way _Rabo _originally phrased the description of their account in spite of the fact that it actually turned out that it was 5% on balances up to €10K and then 3.75% on anything above that (i.e. you still got 5% on €10K even if you have more than that lodged - and 3.75% just on the balance above €10K). I wonder if it is the same here? _Rabo _subsequently clarified the facts on their website.


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## MugsGame

The phrasing on First Active's web-site is ambiguous, that's why I'm wondering. Does "balances between" refer to the whole balance, or the balance (excess) over €15,000?


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## GeneralZod

I've been assuming the banded approach of 5.22% up to 15k and 4.07% on any amounts above 15k.

It would be sneeky of them to drop you down to 4.07% on the whole amount if you go above 15k. 
Shouldn't put it past them though...


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## MugsGame

When I opened an Irish Nationwide FlexiSaver 21 I was explicitly warned that if my balance went over €75,000, the whole amount would attract a lower interest rate. Slightly different from FA, as €75,000 is the advertised maximum for the IN account (In another parallel, some of IN's general literature mentions an account maintenance fee on savings accounts, which it turns out doesn't apply to the FlexiSaver account.).


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## GeneralZod

As an example of good behaviour from a Bank I've got an N.I.B ECB tracker series I account with max total lodgements of €50k. They are giving the full interest 5% on  that plus the subsequent interest payment that takes it over 50k.


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## pc7

just received my pack to open this account, reading the terms and I have to agree for an atm card for this account (which will be liable for the 10 euro government levy) this is a bit of a bummer as its an online account so i just wanted to use it as such. Already pay 40 for credit card, 20 for my laser card and 20 for joint laser card ! i really hate feeling screwed!


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## pc7

scrub that see in brackets for instant access savings only ! coffee hasn't hit the veins yet!


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## GeneralZod

I thought that too on initially reading it but I don't think it applies to the eSavings account. There's a bit in parenthesis that says it is only for Instant Access Savings accounts which the eSavings account isn't - although you can withdraw your funds when you want to a nominated account..

Our posts crossed.


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## pc7

thanks GeneralZod small print is a nightmare!


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## Fanny

Hey GeneralZod, 

charges for the AIB feeder account, since when and how much? I was not aware of that...
I also have a feeder account, as I gave up my AIB current account. Have not seen charges on my balance yet, or I might have overlooked something. Have to check that out. Thanks, Fanny

"Especially since AIB started applying charges on my AIB feeder account. 
In general it's an unwelcome complication.


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## ClubMan

Got the _FA _charges booklet in the post this morning but it doesn't really clarify what, if any, charges apply to the _e-Savings _account.


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## GeneralZod

Fanny said:


> charges for the AIB feeder account, since when and how much? I was not aware of that...
> I also have a feeder account, as I gave up my AIB current account. Have not seen charges on my balance yet, or I might have overlooked something. Have to check that out.



On June 18th I was charged €1.40 for the quarter to 25-May. The previous quarter the charge was €0.80 but was refunded automatically. 
I haven't written to them yet to get a refund. It's the principle of the thing.


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## ClubMan

€0.55 stamp to get a €1.40 or €0.80 refund seems a bit pointless? Unless you emailed?


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## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> €0.55 stamp to get a €1.40 or €0.80 refund seems a bit pointless? Unless you emailed?



That's what they're relying on. It's my job to annoy them in turn. Maybe I should send it registered post.


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## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> Got the _FA _charges booklet in the post this morning but it doesn't really clarify what, if any, charges apply to the _e-Savings _account.


Sorry - my mistake. The booklet clearly states (red highlighting is mine):


> *Account maintenance charge (per quarter)*
> 
> A fee per quarter is applicable. €6.35
> 
> (Instant Access Plus Account only)


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## pc7

and is the esavings account the same thing as an instant access plus account? they've really tried to make it complicated! but from previous posts no wonder the staff are confused?


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## ClubMan

pc7 said:


> and is the esavings account the same thing as an instant access plus account?


Not as far as I can see. Note that _"Instant Access Plus"_ is the name of an account and not a category of account. I presume that _"eSavings"_ is a completely different account even if the money is instant access.


> but from previous posts no wonder the staff are confused?


I'm going by their printed booklets and not what staff are telling me.


----------



## pc7

sorry clubman so do i have to pay 6.35 a  quarter for the eSaving account! i'm having one of those days!! I really need it to be a saturday


----------



## ClubMan

pc7 said:


> sorry clubman so do i have to pay 6.35 a  quarter for the eSaving account!


Not as far as I can see from the terms & conditions and tariff of charges booklets.


----------



## pc7

oh good stuff, I hope not, thanks for that I'll pop it off today so


----------



## ClubMan

Got the following back from somebody in the _Phibsboro _branch:


> I  have just spoken to somebody in our Head Office who has told me that there are  no charges on this e-saver account.  In terms of lodgements, you can set up the account to make regular  weekly, monthly, quarterly etc payments. If you are a First Active customer, you  can make non regular savings payments to the account at any time by transferring  money from your other First Active accounts into the eSaver. However if your  other accounts are non First Active, then unfortunately this option is not  available to you.
> ​


Good news - no charges.

Bad news - if you don't operate a _FA _feeder account then you cannot make sporadic lodgements from an external account after the initial opening lodgement.​


----------



## IrlJidel

ClubMan said:


> Got the following back from somebody in the _Phibsboro _branch:
> 
> Good news - no charges.
> 
> Bad news - if you don't operate a _FA _feeder account then you cannot make sporadic lodgements from an external account after the initial opening lodgement.​




Hmm. Their[broken link removed] says you can transfer from any nominated current account. 

"Transfer money *instantly* to and from your First Active accounts."
"Transfer money from *any* nominated current account."    (emphasis theirs)


----------



## thos

This is all getting a bit confusing ... however, the T&C's are still wide open.

In relation to the response as quoted by Clubman, here is the section they are referring to:



> 43.5 Lodgments can be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of the
> Account holder's name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in the
> Republic of Ireland. Lodgments can not be made by any other method. The maximum
> amount which can be lodged to an Account is €1,000,000.



No mention of account setup with regard to weekly/monthly/quarterly payments. They only thing they are saying is that you can only lodge money via Standing Order. Plus, no limits on regular payments (apart from initial lodgement restrictions €1 / €1m.) A quarterly payment of €1 should get around things ....

So for those of us interested in using this as a lump sum deposit (similar to Rabo), it still seems to fit the bill - provided you open the account with your lump sum via cheque ?


----------



## mollser

Regarding the further lodgements, what happense if you transfer funds using online banking to that sort code and account number?  Wonder will they seriously not accept them?  Have my doubts...


----------



## ClubMan

That's what I was thinking alright...


----------



## GeneralZod

I'm relying on that as I've already sent off my €50 initial lodgement cheque. I wouldn't want to have a cheque for €15k sitting around for who knows how long before they lodge it. Phibsboro branch do seem to be contradicting 43.5 in their reply to clubman.

On  the plus side I think we've finally got a straight answer on the periodic charges.


----------



## ClubMan

Yeah - I'm also dubious about not being able, for example, to open with €1 and subsequently lodge €14,999 from a non _FA _account to be honest. I've asked again for clarification. And also clarification on if €20K means €15K @ 5.22% and €5K @ 4.07% and not €20K @ 4.07% for example.

It's a pity that they weren't simply clearer on their website about the account details in the first place ...


----------



## pc7

sounds like they're making it up as they go along! i didn't realise till i read the aam posts that I couldn't just transfer from my aib online banking, really defeats purpose of online e savings ahhhh!


----------



## eurosaver

pc7 said:


> sorry clubman so do i have to pay 6.35 a  quarter for the eSaving account! i'm having one of those days!! I really need it to be a saturday



I called into my local branch earlier today about this and they said they were 100% sure that there were no charges at all for eSavings. I said I had heard there were quarterly charges, so they called Head Office and they said the same thing. I guess that confirms it!


----------



## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> And also clarification on if €20K means €15K @ 5.22% and €5K @ 4.07% and not €20K @ 4.07% for example.



It feels a bit like deciphering the Rosetta Stone this. Or debating what the meaning of is is. Or waiting for Moses to come down from the mountain to give us enlightenment.

Looking at the First Active [broken link removed] gives me the feeling (not very scientific this) that they have a good approach to the banding.

For the ECB rate linked account they have this rule for determining if the derisory 0.4% interest rate kicks in.

"If the balance shown falls below €15,000 for four or more calendar days per quarter".


The mood music is encouraging.


----------



## RedKev

Hey guys,

First post, so hello all.

Not much of a finance guy and I tend to get lost in the Terms & conditions lingo. So a bit of help would be great.

Like yourselves I rang up to ask a few questions and got a clueless idiot on the other end. She almost laughed at me when I asked if I could lodge money at any time from my AIB account. I got suspicious when she kept saying "I'll ask someone", so I did a quick search and thank God I came across yourselves.

I see there are no charges on the account and you can only lodge money (excluding the regular saver) from your First Active account. Grand.

What about withdrawing money?

Could I withdraw €1000 to my AIB account?

I'm sure it's a very stupid question, but with the trouble I've discovered in opening this account I just want to cover ALL bases.

Cheers guys.


----------



## ClubMan

Not stupid questions and until somebody from _FA _can authoritatively answer the questions we are all, to some extent, guessing the answers.


----------



## RedKev

ClubMan said:


> Not stupid questions and until somebody from _FA _can authoritatively answer the questions we are all, to some extent, guessing the answers.



I think I might get onto the financial regulator about this. I think it's disgraceful to be honest.

If the answer to my question is NO then you have to set up a current account with FA to do anything with your money.


----------



## ClubMan

I already complained by email to _FA _and _IFSRA _about the lack of the charges tariff booklet on their website or in the package that applicants receive. I have heard nothing back in two days from either.


----------



## SS expert

Was just on to them...

There is NO fee,

And

you can put as much in as you want...When you want


----------



## RedKev

SS expert said:


> Was just on to them...
> 
> There is NO fee,
> 
> And
> 
> you can put as much in as you want...When you want


 
From any bank account or only your FA account? i.e. You must have a FA account to set up an E-Saver account.


----------



## SS expert

Any account! I asked could I use my AIB account. Yep no problem she said


----------



## RedKev

SS expert said:


> Any account! I asked could I use my AIB account. Yep no problem she said


 
That's what I was told. Others have been told the opposite.


----------



## SS expert

Sure i was the one who originally posed that there was charges, was told 2 different things now!!!


----------



## Fat Tony

Watching this thread to see what happens, if there's no charges and no deposit restrictions from external a/c then it sounds good. Have the forms waiting here...


----------



## ClubMan

OK - here's the latest from my contact in _Phibsboro_...


> Below is the response I got  from Head Office. Hope this clarifies your queries. In relation to the first  part, they did not think that it would be possible for money to be transferred  from external banks but they have literally just solved this problem so you can  transfer from your ptsb  account at any time now. ​
> ... ​ just to clarify....​ he can transfer money from his ptsb account into the eSaver  account at any stage...​ if the full amount totals €15001 or more then the interest  on the *full account* will be 4.07%,  not 5.22% for the amount  under and 4.07% for the amount over!​ ​


 Note the last point!

What a mess. I'm wondering whether to bother at this stage...


----------



## thos

ClubMan said:


> What a mess. I'm wondering whether to bother at this stage...



Indeed ....

Based on the last point, if I dropped 15k in there - it'd be fine at the higher rate, until the interest gets paid - at which point it goes over 15,001 and the whole lot drops to 4.07 !?!

I have the forms at home, and every day they are getting closer and closer to the bin ...


----------



## SS expert

Did he say if there were charges?


----------



## gonk

I haven't read the entire thread, but I am bemused and amazed that after ten days, 100+ posts and numerous contacts with First Active people still can't get clear answers on the details of what is, after all, just a deposit account.

I certainly wouldn't be beating a path to First Active's door to open one.


----------



## SS expert

thos said:


> Indeed ....
> 
> Based on the last point, if I dropped 15k in there - it'd be fine at the higher rate, until the interest gets paid - at which point it goes over 15,001 and the whole lot drops to 4.07 !?!
> 
> I have the forms at home, and every day they are getting closer and closer to the bin ...



this is not on the site... 

[broken link removed]
(4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000).
this implies 5.22% on the first 15000

if your nervous just put in 14800 and take out the interest every month


----------



## ClubMan

SS expert said:


> Did he say if there were charges?


I posted earlier about this - I was told that there were no charges and the tariff of charges booklet certainly states that the €6.35 per quarter maintenance charge applies to another type of account (_Instant Access Plus_).



SS expert said:


> this is not on the site...
> 
> [broken link removed]
> (4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000).
> this implies 5.22% on the first 15000
> 
> if your nervous just put in 14800 and take out the interest every month


Well they have explicitly told me above that it's* 4.07% on the lot *if your balance is €15,001 or more and you only get 5.22% as long as you balance is below that. Of course, at this stage, who knows whether or not they are correct...


----------



## oldtimer

FA state ''interest is calculated daily and paid monthly.'' Therefore if I put in €15,000 to-day I will never get 5.22% because my balance will be more than €15,000 to-morrow. Am I correct?


----------



## GeneralZod

They'll calculate it daily, but will apply the cumulative amount monthly. 

Hopefully they'll let the interest be paid into a different account, and ideally it won't be required to be another FA account.
According to T&C 43.6 ordinary withdrawals can be made to a "nominated non First Active account". I'd like to know what the account nomination procedure is. With Northern Rock it can be done on-line.

I sent them an email today asking is there such a facility to avoid inadvertently triggering the lower interest rate for the whole amount. All this assuming the latest responses from FA on the lower rate applying to the full amount when it's above €15k are accurate.


----------



## Fat Tony

When I think about it, why am I contemplating trusting an institution behaving in a Mickey Mouse manner like this with my hard earned 15k?


----------



## SS expert

Just put in 14900, and make a monthly withdrawal


----------



## cork

If you put in 14900 and made monthly withdrawls - are you liable for fees?


----------



## ClubMan

Not as far as I can see from the terms & conditions and tariff of charges booklets.


----------



## Prudent1

I was seriously considering FA as well, have a few bob in Rabo and two regular savings accounts with AIB to the max,as I am married.Certainly havent seen any charges applied to my AIB Feeder account but wont be long getting them to change it if I do.I couldnt see anywhere with FA if you can have two of these esavings accounts with them if you are married, must check that with them.Certainly seems like a positive move,hope it is as good as it seems.


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, I've just applied online!  It seems a very straight forward account!


----------



## ClubMan

Have you read the rest of this thread? Some aspects are far from clear.


----------



## pc7

clubman think you were the first to post back the application forms, have you received anything yet?


----------



## Godfather

Hi Clubman, how are you mate? I think we are all worrying a bit too much here... I am quite sure that "1st active" meant that for 20K then 15K will have 5.22% and 5K 4.something...

Re the charges I don't think there will be any but we need of course to agree that this is a savings account (with all its typical limitations) and not a current...


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> Hi Clubman, how are you mate? I think we are all worrying a bit too much here... I am quite sure that "1st active" meant that for 20K then 15K will have 5.22% and 5K 4.something...


Well they have *explicitly *told me otherwise and that once the balance exceeds €15K then you only earn 4.07% on the lot.


----------



## ClubMan

pc7 said:


> clubman think you were the first to post back the application forms, have you received anything yet?


No - I was not the first to post back the forms. I only posted mine off on Sunday. All I am expecting back is confirmation that the account was opened and not any further clarification on terms & conditions of the account.


----------



## Godfather

Hi Clubman,

re your sentence "Well they have *explicitly *told me otherwise and that once the balance exceeds €15K then you only earn 4.07% on the lot."...

That's incredible!!!  

So we'd better but something like 14.5K so that we've got 500 Euro "spare space" to add the monthly interests for a while... What's your opinion? Or do we have the monthly interests lodged in a different account?

What's your opinion please?


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> re your sentence "Well they have *explicitly *told me otherwise and that once the balance exceeds €15K then you only earn 4.07% on the lot."...
> 
> That's incredible!!!


See here.


> So we'd better but something like 14.5K so that we've got 500 Euro "spare space" to add the monthly interests for a while... What's your opinion? Or do we have the monthly interests lodged in a different account?
> 
> What's your opinion please?


Already dealt with by other posters above.


----------



## Godfather

ClubMan said:


> See here.
> 
> Already dealt with by other posters above.


 
Thank you Clubman! I guess moving 14.something K is still worth it in case someone has got already some lump sums with rabo (10K) and "Irish Nationwide" and their "flexisaver 21"...

In fact, the other "lump sum accounts" give you max 4.57% (ECB linked 1st active) as far as I know.


----------



## ClubMan

See the _Financial Best Buys _forum for the best deposit rates on offer. Offhand for lump sum deposits at the moment they are (all gross _CARs_ subject to 20% _DIRT_):
_First Active eSavings: _5.22% on balances up to €15K dropping to 4.07% *on the full amount *for balances over €15K
_RaboDirect_: 5% on up to €10K and 3.75% *on the excess *if more than €10K lodged.
_Northern Rock Demand Online_: 4.5% on balances over €1K
_INBS FlexiSaver 21_ is now closed but was offering 5% on balances of €40K to €75K.
Bear in mind that addtional terms & conditions may apply.


----------



## keithers911

Hi all, some great posts here. I've registered and this is my first post just to let you know that I rang FA office in Dublin as I could't get anyone to answer the phone locally.

Q. Are there any fees assoiated with this a/c?
A. No
Q. If I have 16000 in the a/c what is the interest payable?
A. Higher rate on the first 15,000 and the lower rate on the 1,000.

I wanted complete clarity on the second question so the girl was good enough to put me on hold and get confirmation on this.
I want to open this account but I guess I can't be 100% sure of the TandC's until the a/c is live as after all it was only a phone call.
Incidently, I wasn't aware that FA is part of the Ulster Bank Group.


----------



## irishpancake

I too have e-mailed my local FA Branch, as I would be interested in getting clarification on the points raised in this thread. Just this morning, so I await with bated breath.

Dear Sir/Madam

In relation to your Instant Access Savings Account (aka eSavings Account), can you verify:

1) If there is a quarterly maintenance fee.

2) Does the published Interest Rate of 5.22% AER variable apply to balances up to €15000, if the account balance exceeds €15001, or does the 4.07% rate apply to the full balance in the above case.

3) Can the Account be funded from any current account with any Bank or Institution in Ireland where Electronic/On-line funds transfer is possible, as promised on your web-site "Transfer money from any nominated current account."  or is one confined to funding via a First Active Account.

I would stress that I am talking about occasional deposits, not regular savings.

I am anxious to have clarification on the above points, in order to decide whether to transfer my funds to this account from my existing lump-sum post-SSIA account with Rabo Direct.

I am contacting you as a result of the on-going debate about this account on the Irish financial web-site AskAboutMoney, link below:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=58818

Regards,

Irish Pancake, Esq


----------



## ClubMan

keithers911 said:


> Q. If I have 16000 in the a/c what is the interest payable?
> A. Higher rate on the first 15,000 and the lower rate on the 1,000.


So - once again they have given out conflicting information as they did previously regarding charges?


----------



## Jethro Tull

Come Inside said:


> I e-mailed first active the second I noticed this account (about 2 weeks ago, maybe more) and have yet to receive a reply. Not inspiring confidence in me.


 
I've e-mailed the general help e-mail address and also the nearest branch to me and got no reply. They must not want my money


----------



## KerryG

I have also signed up for this account but as I was already a FA customer with online banking I didnt need id etc.   The money I transferred (started with €1 just in case) hasnt gone through yet but the account is showing up online.   Have not received any paperwork, maybe I dont need any!  I contacted local branch but they do not deal with these accounts at all, there is a number on the website you must ring if you have a query, although I did think it wasnt clear as it is at the top of the page on the account application, not on the general info page.  I was told the account is not offered through the branch network only online so they have no other details on it other than what is on the website.


----------



## Traffic

I have emailed first active twice now and got no reply at all


----------



## GeneralZod

I sent in a €50 initial lodgement cheque 7 working days ago and it has yet to be withdrawn from my ultra low interest rate current account. Glad it wasn't for the full €15k. 

No reply to my email requesting clarification on a couple of questions raised in this thread.

Are First Active trying to sabotage their own product launch?


----------



## ClubMan

Posted the forms back last Sunday and not a peep back so far either...


----------



## pc7

its not looking good is it? i sent mine back last thursday (19th)  pretty poor all round, doesn't instil confidence.


----------



## irishpancake

This is indeed farcical on the part of FA. I have now sent three e-mails to seperate addresses, as shown in my previous post:

my local FA Branch, 
Online Banking faonline@firstactive.com 
General Information info@firstactive.com 

I even gave the URL for this debate on AAM

and not so much as an acknowledgement or any form of reply  

Do these people want our money or not  ??


----------



## IrlJidel

Their rollout makes the blurb on their homepage about eSavings suggest they should drop the 'a'      

;-)

"We've put a little thought into savings..."


----------



## Jethro Tull

irishpancake said:


> Do these people want our money or not  ??


 
Doesn't look like it, I have yet to get a reply either. Sent my third e-mail this morning.

My savings is currently split between a deposit account with Northern Rock and a regular saver with Anglo. Must say their communication has been nothing short of 10/10 so far. Doesn't make one want to run out and change banks does it?


----------



## GeneralZod

One wonders what sort of corporate culture they've got in First Active. They can't be unaware that they're getting a drubbing in this thread and yet there's no response.

I'm imaging a Dilbertesque office where initiative and enthusiasm for doing a good job is punished. I pity anyone working there that gives a damn. Management there probably sees anyone doing a good job as a threat to be eliminated.

They've got a lot to learn from RaboDirect's approach to actively monitoring and responding to questions on AAM.


----------



## ClubMan

Yeah - this whole episode is certainly pointing up the advantages of dealing with the likes of _Rabo/NR _who, while they might pay a bit less interest at least seem to have their act together most of the time...


----------



## gonk

Dominic Coyle's personal finance queries column in the _Irish Times_ last week and the week before dealt with abominable customer service on First Active's part. Coyle wrote last week that he had received enough other letters from readers complaining about First Active to fill his column for months.

The fiasco of this product launch appears, therefore, to be consistent with typical service levels at First Active.


----------



## pc7

i'm seriously considering cancelling it (not that i've received anything back yet) I think i read in t&c i could within 14 days. But at this rate i may never receive any confirmation to do it!


----------



## ClubMan

[broken link removed]


> *6 Cancellation Rights
> 
> *When we open your Account, we will write to you with your Account number and other
> information about your Account. If you are not happy with your choice of Account, you
> may cancel it within 14 days of receipt of your Account number by confirming your
> decision in writing addressed to your Store. If you do so we will give you back all the
> money you have deposited in the Account with any interest it has earned. We will ignore
> any notice period and any extra charges. This would not apply if the interest on the
> Account depends on rises and falls in financial markets outside our control, or is fixed-rate.


----------



## pc7

thanks clubman going to sleep on it for the weekend and decide monday


----------



## ClubMan

If _FA _are inundated with applications and cannot cope then they should stick a notice on their website to this effect. In the absence of such an explanation one can only assume that they are lacking efficiency and/or competence.


----------



## boaber

I must be one of the lucky ones......posted off my application Monday of last week and received confirmation of my account number etc yesterday.

They stated in this letter that my original documentation will follow shorlty, as will my pin, passwords etc.

The letter also stated that I had 14 days to cancel policy and they will refund me my premium plus any interest.


----------



## IrlJidel

I don't mind the delay in  processing the applications, but I'd be happy when there is a definitive, authoritive &  consistent answer to irishpancake's 3 questions:




irishpancake said:


> I too have e-mailed my local FA Branch, as I would be interested in getting clarification on the points raised in this thread. Just this morning, so I await with bated breath.
> 
> Dear Sir/Madam
> 
> In relation to your Instant Access Savings Account (aka eSavings Account), can you verify:
> 
> 1) If there is a quarterly maintenance fee.
> 
> 2) Does the published Interest Rate of 5.22% AER variable apply to balances up to €15000, if the account balance exceeds €15001, or does the 4.07% rate apply to the full balance in the above case.
> 
> 3) Can the Account be funded from any current account with any Bank or Institution in Ireland where Electronic/On-line funds transfer is possible, as promised on your web-site "Transfer money from any nominated current account."  or is one confined to funding via a First Active Account.
> 
> I would stress that I am talking about occasional deposits, not regular savings.
> 
> I am anxious to have clarification on the above points, in order to decide whether to transfer my funds to this account from my existing lump-sum post-SSIA account with Rabo Direct.
> 
> I am contacting you as a result of the on-going debate about this account on the Irish financial web-site AskAboutMoney, link below:
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=58818
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Irish Pancake, Esq


----------



## irishpancake

Folks

Just received the following from my local FA Branch (thanks to Cahal Daly  )



> Dear Mr. _Irish Pancake_
> 
> Thank you for your enquiries in relation to the esavings account. See my
> reply below.
> 
> 1. There is no quarterly maintenance fee.
> 2. If the balance exceeds €15k then the lower rate applies to the  balance
> in excess of €15k ( you get the higher rate on the first €15k)
> 
> 3. Yes, you can fund the account from any bank in Ireland but you would have
> to have online banking with the other financial institution to facilitate
> occasional payments.
> 
> Apologies for the delay in responding
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Cathal Daly, BBus, QFA
> Branch Development Manager
> First Active plc
> _My Local Branch_



I think this is a good response, and I will certainly be transferring out of Rabo to FA, based on the info given.

What do you all think.


----------



## ClubMan

> 2. If the balance exceeds €15k then the lower rate applies to the  balance
> in excess of €15k ( you get the higher rate on the first €15k)


As I mentioned earlier I was explicitly told otherwise - i.e. > €15K means 4.07% on the lot.


----------



## GeneralZod

Just a few sentences on their website [broken link removed] clearing up the ambiguity about how the lower 4.07% applies and how money can be put in and taken out would go a long way to resolving the confusion. 

A reply from an individual that presumably wasn't involved in the product creation is intrinsically less reliable than information they've put on their website assuming of course there's an internal verification process before it goes up.

At this stage I'm not going to rush to move funds into the account until after FA have given a more official answer.
I'll live with the slightly lower NR rate.


----------



## Guest127

Get a great rate of *5.22% AER variable** 
(4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000). 

looks pretty straightforward to me. sometimes we make our own mountains out of molehills
I visited FA today as I have one of those ECB linked accounts to transfer over to an e-savings account but the official said I had to open the account on line and then come back in and she would transfer whatever amount I required.


----------



## GeneralZod

Cuchulainn, I thought it was straightforward too. You might want to read page 4 of this thread and also note that FA have given contradictory answers on a number questions that being the most important.


----------



## ClubMan

cuchulainn said:


> Get a great rate of *5.22% AER variable**
> (4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000).
> 
> looks pretty straightforward to me. sometimes we make our own mountains out of molehills


No - that statement is not clear and is ambiguous. _FA _themselves made a mountain out of this particular by telling me (read my earlier posts) that the lower rate applied to the full balance if it exceeded €15K and telling others that the lower rate applied only to the balance in excess of €15K. They have also given me and others contradictory information on charges and the ability to transfer from non _FA _accounts. Unfortunately this inconsistent approach to giving out information coupled with their tardiness in processing applications would suggest that they simply do not have this matter under control. Personally I am also considering cancelling the cheque that I sent them and cancelling the account application.


> I visited FA today as I have one of those ECB linked accounts to transfer over to an e-savings account but the official said I had to open the account on line and then come back in and she would transfer whatever amount I required.


 Not so straightforward on that front either then?


----------



## Guest127

thanks CM. not as straightforward as it should be  certainly. What I also find slightly odd is that they are proposing paying 5.22% on balances _up to_ €15,000 for the e-savings account but on the Ecb linked account the interest effectively drops from 4.57% ( lots of strings attached I know) to .40% for amounts _under_ €15,000.  it would appear that in order to create  more  paperwork, more rules/restrictions etc  and definitely more confusion than need be the case that its not possible  to have _one _single FA account which can earn the _best_ rates of interest ie First 15,000 @5.22% and if you agree to the conditions all balances over €15,000 at the 4.57%.  I enquired some time ago at my local FA office for the optimum time to make a complete/final  withdrawal from the ECB linked account and they promised to ring back..........  I have now decided that the best time is the 2nd  working day January. otherwise I cannot see how you can avail of the .20% 'bonus' for making less than 12 withdrawals in the year.


----------



## irishpancake

ClubMan said:


> As I mentioned earlier I was explicitly told otherwise - i.e. > €15K means 4.07% on the lot.



Your right CM, I had overlooked your earlier post, where your contact seemed to be referring to FA Head Office, whereas my local contact did not.

I guess i will just have to review my decision, and await further clarification.

All in all, a right mess.


----------



## ClubMan

Anybody know when they calculate and pay interest - e.g. monthly or annually? If monthly then it should be simply to soon sanity check how they apply the rates to balances > €15K.


----------



## oldtimer

See mine of 19-07. From the website ''interest is calculated daily and paid monthly.''


----------



## ClubMan

oldtimer said:


> See mine of 19-07. From the website ''interest is calculated daily and paid monthly.''


Doh! Sorry - thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## MugsGame

> If monthly then it should be simply to soon sanity check how they apply the rates to balances > €15K.



That's a crazy idea...


----------



## ClubMan

Sorry - I'm having a really bad (i.e. dumb) day today as you can see from my recent posts...


----------



## whatsmoney

Just rang the helpdesk on this and asked:

Q. Are there any regular maintenance charges?
A. No

Q. On a 16k deposit, what rate of interest do I get?
A. 4.07% on the 16k in total. (Not 5.22% on 15k and 4.07% on 1k)

The helpdesk were definite on this, and it does contradict 'irishpancake's quote on page 8 of this thread.

I will only be transferring 14k and keeping an eye on when to withdraw so as to stay under 15k at all times.


----------



## ClubMan

9 days on from posting the application form back and still not a peep...


----------



## pc7

mhh nada this side clubman and I returned mine before you? anyone get anything since returning the forms?


----------



## GeneralZod

Boaber on page 8 says FA have responded to their application with an account number

Still waiting for mine (10 workings days now) keep expecting to see the cheque go through, but nothing.


----------



## boaber

boaber said:


> I must be one of the lucky ones......posted off my application Monday of last week and received confirmation of my account number etc yesterday.
> 
> They stated in this letter that my original documentation will follow shorlty, as will my pin, passwords etc.
> 
> The letter also stated that I had 14 days to cancel policy and they will refund me my premium plus any interest.



I made a slight error on the above post with my dates.  Sent off the completed application form & relevant ID etc on Wed 18th July (not the Monday as stated above).  FA's confirmation letter is dated 20/07/07 and I received it on Wednesday 25th July.  One week door to door is pretty good, but admit judging by this thread that I am very lucky indeed!

Haven't received my original proof of address documents though.......

They have provided a specific phone no to deal with esavings applications - 01 7092500.  If they start to receive a lot of complaints this may get them to get their act together?


----------



## pc7

the problem with FA just seems to be with these new accounts, my fixed rate mortgage ran out I sent back the forms to fix again for 2 years last week and got confirmation of same yesterday a 4 working day turn around which is excellent, pity same doesn't apply here


----------



## boaber

Just received my documents back today and my first statement....sorry guys


----------



## Godfather

I sent my application form on monday... Let's see...


----------



## pc7

boaber did you put 50 euro cash in with yours!


----------



## Fat Tony

Has it been confirmed yet that we can open the a/c say with €1000 and then top it up in a once off transfer(€14800 say) from an external a/c via internet banking?


----------



## ClubMan

I'm fairly sure that you can.


----------



## KerryG

My E savings ac is open and appearing on my online banking, was on the online banking service few days after I opened it, sent back the form signed and with an opening lodgement of 1 euro transfer from existing account.   This did not go through until today but I had already transferred 1 euro yesterday to see if it worked, when it did then I transferred 14k.   Interest appears to be paid monthly so I am hoping it is only a matter of transferring out some money when the balance nears 15k.


----------



## ClubMan

KerryG said:


> I am hoping it is only a matter of transferring out some money when the balance nears 15k.


Bear in mind that there is conflicting information about the rate falling to 4.07% on the lot if the balance exceeds €15K and the last word on this seems to be that it does not - i.e. 5.22% on €15K and 4.07% on the excess, not the full balance. In time maybe somebody can confirm for sure?


----------



## ClubMan

Two weeks on and still not a peep...


----------



## dosco

KerryG said:


> My E savings ac is open and appearing on my online banking, was on the online banking service few days after I opened it, sent back the form signed and with an opening lodgement of 1 euro transfer from existing account. This did not go through until today but I had already transferred 1 euro yesterday to see if it worked, when it did then I transferred 14k. Interest appears to be paid monthly so I am hoping it is only a matter of transferring out some money when the balance nears 15k.


 
Must you set up a regular direct debit or can you just do a lump sum deposit


----------



## MugsGame

Of those who applied and have been allocated an account number, how many were existing FA customers? I applied about 3 weeks ago and have yet to hear anything.

The identity documentation requested by FA was relatively minimal compared to what some of the other banks require for postal applications. I wonder if there is a delay for new customers while they review their procedures in this area?


----------



## damoz

I applied with an initial deposit cheque last week. I was getting worried why nothing has happened in the interim - until i read all these posts. Sounds like its popularity might cause alot of delays in getting these accounts set up.


----------



## KerryG

I was existing First Active customer with online banking already in place.   I did not do any regular payments to it, just one initial transfer of 1 euro on the form I returned, to check if it worked right, then one off transfer from another FA ac through online banking.


----------



## Alonso

Just read through all of this as I have applied to open an e-savings a/c online today. The initial terms and conditions [broken link removed] re: being able to transfer funds from any account even non FA seems pretty straight forward. The interest rate above 15000 euro also seems straight forward meaning you don't get the 5.22% only 4.07%.. It seems to me that people are only looking for problems for this account. My advise is it looks the best around for balances under 15k - you just have to manage it to make sure you don't go over the 15k. It seems easy enough to transfer money from this e-saving a/c to another a/c or am I being too naive. Anyway, it was good to get other peoples point of view..


----------



## ClubMan

Alonso said:


> Just read through all of this...
> 
> It seems to me that people are only looking for problems for this account.


You obviously did not read this thread closely enough. If you had then you would have seen that different people have been given different and conflicting information about this account *by FA themselves* in relation to how transfers/lodgements can be made, what charges apply, what rate applies when the balance exceeds €15K. 


> My advise is it looks the best around for balances under 15k - you just have to manage it to make sure you don't go over the 15k.


 Why? Some people have been told that over €15K does not mean the lower rate on the full balance. But others (myself included) have been told otherwise. 

If you think that the terms & conditions clarify these matters then please post the specific extracts because when I read them I found them far from clear on the specific issues mentioned above.  And even less so when I and others received conflicting "clarifications" from _FA_. And, in fact, the terms & conditions were not authoritative since they referred off to other documents which were not readily accessible (e.g. tariff of charges booklet).

Anyway - for me it's all moot since 14 days on (10 working days) I have heard nothing back from them in relation to my application.


----------



## kilkerry

mollser said:


> I see First Active have launched an online savings account, offering 5.22% aer (Gross 5.10%) on balances up to €15k, 4.07% on balances >€15k.
> 
> They pay interest monthly, which I like!
> 
> Doesn't appear to be any catches with the interest rate. Although it is variable, they haven't stated that this rate will revert to xx% after xx period of time. Time will tell I'm sure.
> 
> Looks attractive as another high interest option to add to Rabo, NR etc.
> 
> Any thoughts??
> 
> [broken link removed]



At last we are beginning to see some activity from the banks for lump sum deposits.  This certainly looks attractive, and no catch.


----------



## Jethro Tull

kilkerry said:


> This certainly looks attractive, and no catch.


 
Apart from not being able to open an account, getting correct info from their staff or get e-mails returned!!!


----------



## Happy Girl

ClubMan said:


> Bear in mind that there is conflicting information about the rate falling to 4.07% on the lot if the balance exceeds €15K and the last word on this seems to be that it does not - i.e. 5.22% on €15K and 4.07% on the excess, not the full balance. In time maybe somebody can confirm for sure?


 
I contacted First Active yesterday and spoke with a very helpful and knowledgeable gentleman. I explained the AAM discussion re the above and he most definitely confirmed that once the balance exceeds 15k the ENTIRE amount in the account drops to 4.07%. He advised that I open the account with 12k and just keep an eye on it to make sure it does not exceed 15k.


----------



## ClubMan

Thanks _HG _- so you and I have been told this and others have been told otherwise. Maybe those people who claim that we're looking for flaws and making mountains out of molehills can take note? In any case yet another day gone by with no sign of my account being opened...

If the rate does drop then you can lodge more than €12K (e.g. c. €14,200 if you only withdraw interest annually or c. €14,930 if you withdraw interest monthly) and avoid breaching the €15K balance and the rate dropping. I don't know where they got the €12K figure from but such inaccuracy from _FA _does not surprise me at this stage...


----------



## Jethro Tull

HG, Clubman I agree, this is a complete joke. It still says the opposite on the FA website (5.22% on 15k, 4.07% on anything above).

I was very tempted to switch but this continued nonsense on the part of FA is really making me think twice. In fact I'm fairly sure i will go nowhere near FA with my savings.


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> HG, Clubman I agree, this is a complete joke. It still says the opposite on the FA website (5.22% on 15k, 4.07% on anything above).


No it doesn't - [broken link removed]:


> Get a great rate of *5.22% AER variable**
> (4.07% for balances between €15,001 - €1,000,000).


 Which could mean either (i.e. 4.07% on the lot where the balance is €15,001+ or 5% on €15K and 4.07% on the remainder).


----------



## Kookie123

Just to muddy the waters a bit more (as if it needs it at this stage), in the T&C booklet they posted out to me, it states that you must use their Online Banking Service to operate the account.  No problem with that, but

Section 13 of the Online Banking T&C states:
"We reserve the right to charge you and you agree to pay the charges for the Service or any part of it."

I don't have a "Tariff of Charges" booklet (and maybe someone who has can check), but I'm wondering if the maintenance charge mentioned earlier is actually a charge for using their internet banking facility?

In Section 43 on Operations of the Account re lodgements (other than the initial one)

43.5 "Lodgements can only be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of the Account holder's name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in the Republic of Ireland.  Lodgements can not be made by any other method."

This appears to mean that you can't transfer money from an account other than a FA account. I'm wondering if you did (and breach their T&C) would they pay you interest ?


----------



## aishling

I applied on line for this a/c yesterday, I was going to open it with the full 15K having assumed the 2tiered interest rate system would work the same as Rabo! Anyway I don't have a chq book so am I correct in saying that I'd need to get a bank draft or can I do a once off standing order? Also if there giving the lower rate on the full amount, I don't want to put in the full 15k as I said in the application, can I just change this myself or lodge the 15k and withdraw it once it goes in?


----------



## Guest127

Staff information seminars are obviously not high on their agenda. I was informed in the local FA branch that the first 15,000 was at 5.22% and wait for it............ interest on this €15,000 would also be at 5.22%. It has to be pretty clear that if you put in the full €15,000 then any interest added at all will be in excess of the €15,000 figure. I estimate with a yearly added interest add on that the max is under €14,400


----------



## ClubMan

Well if you only withdraw interest annually and €15K is 105.22% of the maximum sum possible without breaching the €15K balance then this sum is surely €14,255.84? I'm assuming that gross interest will be added first before _DIRT _is deducted.


----------



## Happy Girl

Kookie123 said:


> Just to muddy the waters a bit more (as if it needs it at this stage), in the T&C booklet they posted out to me, it states that you must use their Online Banking Service to operate the account. No problem with that, but
> 
> Section 13 of the Online Banking T&C states:
> "We reserve the right to charge you and you agree to pay the charges for the Service or any part of it."


 
Just on to First Active and they confirm that there are NO charges on this account.


----------



## CCOVICH

Unless it's in writing, it's not worth the paper it's written on.


----------



## ClubMan

I have it in an email from them that no charges apply but at this stage I don't really trust anything that they say.


----------



## Happy Girl

Have all my forms here for posting but am beginning to think that my 10k would probably be better off staying where it is and earning its 3% in local CU (maybe not financially but certainly for ease of operating the account and also a long-standing confidence in the local CU operating procedures). Have never dealt with First Active before but they certainly are not instilling great confidence in me re their products and services. Might hold out and see if any of the other institutions raise their lump sum deposit rates.


----------



## CCOVICH

There are planty of other more straightforward options available than First Active where the returns are greater than 3%.  If you are willing to take a 2% 'haircut' to leave your money in the CU, it's an expensive premium to pay for 'confidence' IMHO.


----------



## ClubMan

I agree. If you don't have a _RaboDirect _account already then you could easily open one and get 5% gross _CAR _on the €10K and unlike _FA _they at least seem to have their act together. Also - depending on the type of _CU _account - the [broken link removed] may be less or more favourable than _DIRT _at source of 20%. And, unlike many other financial institutions, _CUs _usually only tell you at the end of the year what they are paying out.


----------



## irishpancake

Just got this from First Active, or Ulster Bank actually, it seems. 

Can someone interpret the para in *bold italics*, mine.

i think I'm goin to give up on this, just because I can't get clarity on the items I have asked about.



> Hi
> 
> Apologies for the delay in getting back to you
> 
> In answer to your questions:
> 
> 1/. There are no maintenance fees applied to the eSavings account.
> 
> 2/. Interest rates are applied as follows: 5.22% for balances of
> EUR15000 and under, 4.07% for balances of EUR15001 - EUR1,000,000
> 
> *In each occassion the rates apply to the whole balance on the
> account, as now stated on our First Active Website.
> *
> 
> 3/. Once your eSavings account is opened it is possible to transfer
> money in from any nominated current account. Customers are not restricted to funding via a First Active account.
> 
> I hope this answers any queries you had
> 
> Thanks again for your patience
> 
> 
> Damien
> 
> Damien White
> > Retail Direct
> > 5th Floor Group Head Office
> > Ulster Bank Limited
> > 11-16 Donegall Square East
> > Belfast BT1 5UB
> >
> > Tel   - 028 90 275808 or RI 048 90275808(ubits 75808) NEW
> > Fax   - 028 90 275828 or RI 048 90275828 (ubits 75828)
> > Email damien.white@ulsterbank.com
> > Website       www.ulsterbank.com <www.ulsterbank.com>


----------



## CCOVICH

irishpancake said:


> Can someone interpret the para in *bold italics*, mine.


 
If you have a balance of €14,500, you earn 5.22% on the lot.

If you have a balance of €15,500, you earn 4.07% on the lot.


----------



## ClubMan

> *In each occassion the rates apply to the whole balance on the
> account, as now stated on our First Active Website.*


 They don't state that on [broken link removed] and they don't clarify the key nuance (i.e. the lower rate applies *to the whole balance *one it's €15,0001+) on [broken link removed]. These guys really don't seem to have a clue...


----------



## Jethro Tull

CCOVICH said:


> If you have a balance of €14,500, you earn 5.22% on the lot.
> 
> If you have a balance of €15,500, you earn 4.07% on the lot.


 
Seems to be what he's saying, bit of a swizz. i always assumed (despite the mixed messages coming from FA!!!) that a tiered structure similar to Rabo's would apply. If anyone's still bothered with this account it looks like depositing approx 14k is the way to go.

Btw has anyone complained about this to the Financial Regulator? The fact that people can be told different things by 2 different members of FA staff is surely misleading.


----------



## GeneralZod

boaber said:


> They have provided a specific phone no to deal with esavings applications - 01 7092500.  If they start to receive a lot of complaints this may get them to get their act together?



Rang that number today to see what the delay with my application is.

My application was flagged as missing ID information. Apparently I was one of the first people to apply and there was an error in the forms they first sent out that didn't request ID info.  I put a note on my application pointing this out. They didn't reply asking for the ID documents they need.

They also said that delays processing are due to the number of applications. The irony is this product is a roaring success for them despite their incompetence! All our whining is just noise that will barely affect their bottom line.


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Btw has anyone complained about this to the Financial Regulator? The fact that people can be told different things by 2 different members of FA staff is surely misleading.


Last time I made a complaint to _IFSRA _about a financial institution this is what I got back when I asked them how they would let me know what happened with my complaint...


> The Financial  Regulator is very happy to receive information from consumers. I have already  confirmed that the information you raised was passed on to the relevant  department - Consumer Protection & Codes.
> However - as I hope  you can appreciate - the Financial Regulator will not be keeping you appraised  of any developments in relation to this issue. The Financial Regulator is  restricted from disclosing information under S.33AK of the Central Bank Act,  1942 (as amended by the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland  Act, 2003).
> 
> I hope this  clarifies the situation and I can  confirm that I am now closing off your file  in Consumer Information.


Waste of time if you ask me. I complained to _FA _about the fact that they don't provide the tariff of charges booklet online but the online _eSavings _terms & conditions refer to it. They just said they'd look into it.

_FA _finally cashed my cheque this morning by the way.


----------



## irishpancake

ClubMan said:


> They don't state that on [broken link removed] and they don't clarify the key nuance (i.e. the lower rate applies *to the whole balance *one it's €15,0001+) on [broken link removed]. These guys really don't seem to have a clue...



That would also be my interpretation CM, which is why I thought that I was missing something from their web-site. 

But, as you have pointed out in the links, FA are still marketing this product giving the clear impression that it is similar to Rabo in it's tiered structure. 

I also agree that it is not good enough to give misleading information to potential customers, like I have got from two different named sources.

The other point, I suppose, is that the second reply I got was from a person with Ulster Bank in Belfast. 

As I sent e-mails to faonline@firstactive.com and info@firstactive.com, I'm not sure which address he replied from, but it was disconcerting to get the reply above from Ulster Bank, when I enquired about a FA product. Seems a tad unprofessional to me.

I think I'll give this a miss, at least for any amount over €15k.


----------



## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> _FA _finally cashed my cheque this morning by the way.



They cashed my cheque today after I rang them up. They didn't need any ID after all. I had a FA account that I closed about 8 years ago. Apparently FA still had my details on file (doesn't that violate limits on personal data retention?). They just checked my DOB and updated to my new address. The person that did it identified themselves as working for Ulster Bank, they seem to be the ones operating the eSavings account. Ulster have a similarly named account with  lower interest.


----------



## ClubMan

Just to clarify I did not chase _FA _about this but wanted to see what would happen "naturally".


----------



## GeneralZod

Is part of the problem with FA not putting out a clear message on the exact terms that they're just a front for a product operated by a different part of the RBS Group. 

The www.ulsterbank.ie web site and the www.firstactive.ie web site with the product description appear to be on separate servers connected by different ISPs. So the people with the knowledge to update the info on the web site probably don't have the authority to update it. Someone should try to bypass the internal bureaucracy and get the answers up on the web site.

The eBanking engines are identical except for branding. Demo of FA [broken link removed]. Demo of UB [broken link removed].

*Partial result!* Just noticed that FA seem to have updated their web site [broken link removed] as was claimed in a quoted letter from an Ulster Bank worker several posts back in this thread.



> *The interest rate applied to your account will be applied to the whole balance of the account*



This change might have been up for a while unnoticed as it isn't in the section at the top listing the interest rate.


----------



## cork

I might open an account but then I might do the EBS Regular savings.

But for the First Active one - must you send them in your original passport to open an account?


----------



## Alonso

Of course not. You can send a copy of passport or a copy of Driving License. You may need to get the copy certified by the Gardai. I got my pack in the post only 6 days after applying online. I still don't understand what all the confusion is, the T&C seem pretty straight forward to me. Some people are saying that they got different answers from FA staff on certain issues. This can happen in any business, doctors differ and all that. Staff don't have all the answers but the Terms and Conditions do. Be aware the T&C does contain infornation on a regular FA saving a/c aswell as the e-saving a/c. If you can't figure it out - probably best the leave your money in the local CU. No offence.


----------



## ClubMan

Alonso said:


> Of course not.


I've sent my original to several banks when opening accounts because I have found getting certified copies too much hassle. _FA _only asked for a photocopy (non certified).


> I still don't understand what all the confusion is, the T&C seem pretty straight forward to me. Some people are saying that they got different answers from FA staff on certain issues. This can happen in any business


 Did you actually read the full thread? There was confusion over the rate issue and it seems to have been finally clarified - 5.22% on balances up to €15K and 4.07% on the full balance if you go over the €15K limit. Different to what some people were assured was the case and different to how _RaboDirect _for example apply interest. There was also confusion over other terms & conditions. There is absolutely no excuse for a financial institution giving out contradictory information about such black & white matters.


> Staff don't have all the answers but the Terms and Conditions do.


 No they don't. The _T&Cs _simply do not clarify the interest payment and charges issues (since the latter are not covered in the _T&Cs_ at all but in the referenced _Tariff of Charges Booklet_ which is not available online).


> If you can't figure it out - probably best the leave your money in the local CU. No offence.


 No offence but most people on this thread are not idiots and yet could not clarify the issues even after (in some cases especially after) asking _FA_. 

Anyway you already posted this "everything is obvious" comment earlier and I posted more or less the same rebuttal but you never bothered reading it or responding to it... If you read the _T&Cs _and thought that they answered all questions about the account then I suspect that *you *did not understand them properly.


----------



## Jethro Tull

Alonso said:


> Some people are saying that they got different answers from FA staff on certain issues. This can happen in any business, doctors differ and all that.


 
Asking how an interest rate will be applied is not asking for a statement of professional opinion as would be the case when seeking medical asistance or actuarial opinion, it is asking for a statement of fact. In terms of medicine or the application of finanacial and regulatory practices to a situation there are probably a myriad of answers. none of which are incorrect. 

However asking does the interest rate vary in a tiered system such as is the case with Rabo or otherwise doesn not open itself to a myriad of answers. there is only one right answer. Some people are being told x, some y which means that some people are getting the wrong answer to a simple yes or no question. Even looking at some of the answers have been given the wording is ambiguous and in no way clears the matter up.


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Asking how an interest rate will be applied is not asking for a statement of professional opinion as woud be the case when seeking medical asistance or actuarial opinion, it is asking for a statement of fact.


Exactly.


> Even looking at some of the answers have been given the wording is ambiguous and in no way clears the matter up.


Judging by the update on the _FA _site I guess that it's almost certain that the 5.22% rate only applies under €15K and over that 4.07% applies to the full amount on deposit - i.e. not 5.22% on €15K and 4.07% on just the full balance minus €15K.


----------



## irishpancake

I have to agree with CM and others here. 

The reason we have a modicum of clarity now is that we, as in those who post on this forum, actually pursued FA for clear answers on how this account operated, for balances under and above €15k. 

The original information given on the FA web-site was, and is still to some extent, mis-leading in relation to this crucial information. 

This was compounded by information from FA locally and nationally which was contradictory false and mis-leading, being received by myself and others who took the time to send multiple e-mails of enquiry. 

I am not saying FA were deliberately trying to mislead the public here, but they should have ensured that the information supplied on their web-site was not open to various interpretations, and they certainly should have ensured that information supplied by staff in response to e-mail enquiries was correct.

I feel that the fact that FA changed the wording on the product web-page, to go some way towards clarifying the T&C's, shows that we have indeed had a result here.

I would just love to know if there are any investors/savers who actually deposited >€15k, and are expecting a tiered interest (5.22%/4.07%) rather than a simple 4.07% on their lump-sum deposit   Probably loads


----------



## ClubMan

Received a letter finally confirming my account setup this morning.


----------



## Lorraine

*The elusive First Active e-savings account*

Am existing customer and applied for e-savings (5.22%) account online 11th July, received documentation 17th. All duly returned with cheque for euro15,000 (not yet cashed!).

Two e-mails from me to FA remain unanswered!

Phoned on 8th August and was assured everything had been received and in order and account opening would be processed very shortly. Massive interest in this new account was blamed for delay!

First Active's admin. is very unsatisfactory but am heartened by Clubman's news.  Perhaps I'll get something in the post tomorrow..........

Thread very informative - thanks to all.


----------



## ClubMan

You should not lodge €15K as doing so means that as soon as you earn a penny (or is it €1?) in interest then your full balance will only earn 4.07% and not the 5.22% on the first €15K and 4.07% on the "excess".


----------



## 60watt

Despite all the conflicting answers from FA, I am still tempted to open this account with a small cheque and then transfer ~10K once the account is setup simple because the 5.22% is so good. I too sent my local branch questions via e-mail and did not receive a reply. I know about the 5.22% and 4.07%, but is there any rate prommis/guarantee with this e-savings account ? Sorry if this is a silly question on a variable rate account.


----------



## pc7

clubman that's great you got a response, I sent mine back before you wondering will there be any post for me at home for this, hopefully so.


----------



## irishpancake

*Re: The elusive First Active e-savings account*



Lorraine said:


> Am existing customer and applied for e-savings (5.22%) account online 11th July, received documentation 17th. All duly returned with cheque for euro15,000 (not yet cashed!).
> 
> Two e-mails from me to FA remain unanswered!
> 
> Phoned on 8th August and was assured everything had been received and in order and account opening would be processed very shortly. Massive interest in this new account was blamed for delay!
> 
> First Active's admin. is very unsatisfactory but am heartened by Clubman's news.  Perhaps I'll get something in the post tomorrow..........
> 
> Thread very informative - thanks to all.




Hi Lorraine.

On a rough calculation, the difference in Annual Interest (calculated daily) payable to you could be as much as €803 for a €15k lump sum @ 5.22%, as opposed to €624 for a €15001 @ 4.07%.

I have used 

So, you should be aware that you stand to lose €180(approx) by leaving just in excess of €15k in this account, as is now probably the effect with your initial balance, including interest calculated daily.

As I say, the figures are illustrative only, but do demonstrate the effect of going over the €15k barrier, which FA did not, and do not, emphasise in their marketing of this product.


----------



## Squonk

My wife was just about to post in my completed application to FA with a cheque for €15k. After reading this thread, I managed to stop her just in time! It looks like the 5.22% vs 4.07% issue won't get resolved for a while as FA themselves don't seem to know what they're charging. The potential interest savings over NR or Rabo may not be worth the hassle. One would think that an somthing as fundamental as interest charged would be crystal clear to all involved in FA...why else do FA think people are putting money into this e-account? Not for the love of FA..


----------



## MugsGame

> including interest calculated daily.



Calculated daily but credited monthly.

So you could lodge €15,000, and then withdraw the monthly interest immediately / a few days before it's paid.


----------



## JR Rizzo

I cannot believe the amount of posts in this thread
granted alot appear to be about rate informations and application process problems
-> if its so confusing dont bother with it!

Compare this 5.22% marketing stunt by FA to other banks offers discussed
through out this site, where you get a "measly" 4.75% or even 5%

NEGLIGIBLE DIFFERENCE!!!! 

wont go far in Ireland today, esp after DIRT 

if any of you have a mortgage, your'e far better off spending your time
shopping for better deals & rates, 

but, at the end of the day, fair play to First Active for generating so much
interest, posts and CONFUSION from you all 
- maybe they should just stick to mortgages?

keep it simple people, its just a savings account

JR.


----------



## ClubMan

JR Rizzo said:


> I cannot believe the amount of posts in this thread
> granted alot appear to be about rate informations and application process problems
> -> if its so confusing dont bother with it!


Some people just want to get to the bottom of the matter. If this upsets you then why bother reading or responding to the thread?


----------



## Lorraine

Thanks for that Clubman, when returning application form + cheque I did actually instruct FA to credit another account with the interest earned.

Nonetheless would it be best to withdraw a few euro to leave the invested sum at less than the 15,000 even if only by a few euro!  seems crazy.  I know with Irish Nationwide you can lodge the amount up to 75,000 but one euro over and the rates change.

Is it the case with FA that over 14,999 the rate decreases? Oh such  complication......

Thanks again.


----------



## GeneralZod

Lorraine said:


> when returning application form + cheque I did actually instruct FA to credit another account with the interest earned.


Crediting the interest to another account was one of my questions to FA that I haven't got an answer to.
Did the form you returned give this option or did you request it separately? The T&Cs don't allow DDs or SOs out of the eSavings account. If they don't narrowly enforce that it would save a heck of a lot of hassle if they let people credit interest to another account. I think Northern Rock and probably others allow that.



Lorraine said:


> Is it the case with FA that over 14,999 the rate decreases? Oh such  complication......



The threshold at which 4.07% on the whole amount kicks in is €15,001 and above up to max balance of €1 million, based on an almost certain interpretation of the information available on the FA web site.

My sympathies to you on losing a months interest on your cheque for €15k as it languishes unprocessed by FA. I'd ask them to retrospectively credit it to your account when calculating interest as an act of goodwill for being so slow in setting up your account. It's about €50 after DIRT in lost interest payments.


----------



## abbey

Hallo all,

Got my a/c details from first active t-d. So I decided to set-up the a/c details on my electronic banking with PTSB to transfer funds to the a/c. When PTSB rang me to clarify the details they said they couldn't register the details as the first active sort code (98-88-16) wasn't coming up in their system!
So I don't know if there is a prob. with FA or PTSB....is it that difficult to open a a new savings a/c!!!?

A


----------



## ClubMan

abbey said:


> the first active sort code (98-88-16) wasn't coming up in their system!


Maybe because this is a new sort code and relates not to a specific branch but to _"KEYING SORTCODE FA INTERNET" _according to their documentation?


----------



## Godfather

Hi everyone, well done for clarifying that over 15K the lower interest will apply to the whole lot. I sent my request for "esavings" and I got the confirmation letter but I am still waiting for the PIN. As I have an ECB linked account with 1st active I stated "existing customer but have no internet log in details". Query pls if anyone is in a "more advanced" stage on this: can one nominate an external account (not 1st active) for any withdrawal/lodgements from/to the "eSavings" account in your opinion? It doesn't seem clear from the letter I got...


----------



## ClubMan

I'm still waiting for my _PIN_.


----------



## GeneralZod

Still waiting for my confirmation letter & account number although they cashed the initial deposit cheque last Friday.


----------



## Butter

I finally went into FA today to enquire if my SSIA at 3.75% was the best deposit account on offer.  Was told that someone would ring me this afternoon to discuss my requirements - but that didn't happen.  Certainly wasn't told about this e-savngs account.  
However found this thread tonight and decided to open the account on-line.  Went through that process ok and they are to send out the necessary details and forms to sign and gave me a reference number.  I'm assuming that I won't have to give I.D and proof of address info again as I'm already a customer.  It appears that they will transfer my existing deposit in the Saverplus account to the e-savings account.  
Must not be in FA's interest though to have people transferring from a rate of 3.75% to 5.22%.  Definetely in my interest though and I'll keep my deposit just below the €15,000 to play it safe.


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> Query pls if anyone is in a "more advanced" stage on this: can one nominate an external account (not 1st active) for any withdrawal/lodgements from/to the "eSavings" account in your opinion? It doesn't seem clear from the letter I got...



I agree it isn't clear from the application form. They let me nominate my Ulster Bank current account when I rang them up. Haven't got any written confirmation of that yet.


----------



## Godfather

Hi Generalzod,

as far as I know Ulster Bank is part of the same group of "1st active" (RBS), hopefully they should allow that for you... As soon as I've more news if an external account (out of the same group) can be nominated I'll let everyone know...

Everything is a bit uncertain on this isn't it?


----------



## pc7

still waiting on my details, got a trs refund letter yesterday asking did I want to keep it as an overpayment on the mortgage or lodge it to my investment account! very funny, so they have me on the system now but no confirmation/pin etc and I sent mine back before clubman


----------



## Godfather

...Still waiting for my PIN... Any news there?


----------



## ClubMan

No sign of the _PIN _here. I've had enough and am going to cancel my application under the 14 day cooling off period even though the account is already open. It's just not worth the hassle at this stage. I tried calling but was stuck on hold so I guess I'll just write to the _PO _box address on the account opening confirmation letter that I received.


----------



## Godfather

Hi Clubman, I understand the "frustration". I'm just holding on because if the internet engine is good like rabodirect. I think we should trust them... But they are so slow!


----------



## pc7

I just rang and cancelled my application there, will stick with rabo for now and wait and see how this pans out.


----------



## Squonk

I had been planning to send in €15k (the cheque was written and the letter was almost in the post) but I'm not bothering now . I hope someone from FA is reading this thread.......!!


----------



## pc7

well when i took out the application confirmation to get my number to cancel, they acknowledged receipt of my application 10th of July, but i just noticed when i rang they have my name as Ms First letter of first name and my surname as my second name? so just seems pretty mickey mouse at the mo, i've had no problems with first active with my mortgage so just thinking they are overwhelmed with this account. Very bad customer service.


----------



## Jethro Tull

the nonsense being described on this thread has definately put me off, I'm not opening a FA esaver after all these stories and my own experiences trying to contact them.

Surely someone in FA reads this website from time to time, you'd think the fact there's 250+ posts on a thread slating one of their products would be enough to spur them into action, obviously not.


----------



## OJP

I completed the forms online but with all the confusion thats going on I've decided not to bother posting them in! Applied online for Northern Rock account instead - slightly less interest than FA but no comparison with customer service. I sent a query by email & had a response in an hour! Also have a Rabo account & have had no problems with that. These are both large financial organisations & can manage good customer service so cant understand how FA can be so bad!


----------



## MugsGame

FA/UB admitted to me that it's been phenomenally successful, so applications are taking a while to process (including mine). It still seems like a good product, despite initial lack of clarify on ID requirements, and interest bands. 

I expect service will be quicker in a month or two, when initial demand has died down.


----------



## Godfather

Just got back home and found a letter from 1st Active... "Wow! The Pin!" I thought... No, it was my 1st statement!


----------



## Corkjoe

Applied for a joint esavings account account online about a week ago. The software asked for two deposits, one from me and from my wife! I sent off the paperwork today (arrived quickly) with two cheques, one for €10 and one for €100 to open the account. I've no idea if we've opened one or two accounts! Also the covering letter hasn't asked for any identification so I didn't send any (we already have an ECB linked account with them) but a check list on the envelope mentions it. FA seem hell bent on making things difficult for themselves!


----------



## manyana

ClubMan said:


> No sign of the _PIN _here. I've had enough and am going to cancel my application under the 14 day cooling off period even though the account is already open. It's just not worth the hassle at this stage. I tried calling but was stuck on hold so I guess I'll just write to the _PO _box address on the account opening confirmation letter that I received.


CM maybe FA are watching these threads and have taken note of the many contributions you make and have decided that you might be a difficult customer to deal with.


----------



## ClubMan

Doubt it.


----------



## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> Doubt it.



It will be interesting to see how much trouble you have canceling it and getting your money back.

Given that they seem to be overwhelmed and have severe process deficiencies with account creation. They're likely to be even worse prepared for contingencies like customers canceling before the bank's even finished the sign-up process.


----------



## abbey

Hallo all,

Just wondering has anyone else had probs. transferring funds electronically from from an external current a/c??? 'Cos my bank won't recognise the sort code that FA gave me...

A


----------



## ClubMan

So you said already - why are you posting this again?


----------



## GeneralZod

Finally got the letter with my account number today (letter was dated 10th August). 

Has anyone got their "card and PIN" yet?


----------



## Godfather

Hi, I got my welcome letter with account number + 1st statement but no sign of PIN yet...


----------



## SS expert

Hi lads,

I have sent 2000E in over 4 weeks now, 
will they backdate interest for this time ,...untill the account is opened?

thanks!


----------



## boaber

Godfather said:


> Hi, I got my welcome letter with account number + 1st statement but no sign of PIN yet...





GeneralZod said:


> Finally got the letter with my account number today (letter was dated 10th August).
> 
> Has anyone got their "card and PIN" yet?



Got my PIN about 10 days after I received my 1st statement.  Didn't get a card though, I don't think you get one with this type of A/C?


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, big news of not anyone knows it.

After getting the welcome letter with the sort-code+account no. we do not receive the PIN automatically. We need to apply for "internet backing" from the FA web-site. So I just did it (also printed the confirmation page) and got a customer no. Now I'm waiting for the access code to be sent via mail.


----------



## Stifster

simple question because i'm too lazy to go back through the posts and/or look at terms and conditions.

What is the notice period for withdrawals from this account?


----------



## ClubMan

Sorry - I'm too lazy to answer.


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> After getting the welcome letter with the sort-code+account no. we do not receive the PIN automatically. We need to apply for "internet backing" from the FA web-site. So I just did it (also printed the confirmation page) and got a customer no. Now I'm waiting for the access code to be sent via mail.



Godfather,

The letter I got says



> Your card and PIN (if applicable) will arrive in the next few days



In my naïveté I took this to mean I didn't have to do anything.

Think I'll try to kick start the process on-line like you did. It gave me a customer number and said it would send me out an activation code.

What is the "card" they mention?


----------



## agapanthus

There is no card with the esavings account, that only refers to any of the instant access accounts that can be operated by atm card.   My money is in my account since 1st August, waiting to see my interest added on on 1st September!


----------



## GeneralZod

Ah right. I wasn't thinking ATM card. I was imagining something more exotic like AIBs one-time code card or RaboDirect's electronic widget.


----------



## Godfather

GeneralZod said:


> Ah right. I wasn't thinking ATM card. I was imagining something more exotic like AIBs one-time code card or RaboDirect's electronic widget.


 
I talked to the FA callcenter yesterday and they told me that the letter with the sort code and account no. is the standard one for every account and they told me that neither card nor PIN (connected to the card) are applicable.

...Confusing I agree... But at least now we know what the next step is...


----------



## ClubMan

So how/where do you log into your online account and how can you do this without some sort of login credentials?


----------



## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> So how/where do you log into your online account and how can you do this without some sort of login credentials?



When you go through the web registration for on-line access it gives you a customer number. This is also your login id. It is composed of your date of birth followed by a sequence number DDMMYYNNNN. That's the same as Ulster Bank, who as was previously mentioned in this thread they share the eBanking system with. The printed statements look the same too. I got my first statement yesterday.

When doing the on-line registration you give the account number of your first active account as well as other ID information.

The on-line registration says they'll send out an activation code. I don't know how many steps from the end of the registration process that is. To log into Ulster Bank e-banking you also need a password and a PIN so somehow those will have to be assigned or chosen if it's identical with FA.


----------



## boaber

GeneralZod said:


> The on-line registration says they'll send out an activation code. I don't know how many steps from the end of the registration process that is. To log into Ulster Bank e-banking you also need a password and a PIN so somehow those will have to be assigned or chosen if it's identical with FA.



Once you get your activation code, you go online, enter the customer number they provided you when you first registered (Don't lose this!!!) and tick the box for Customers With A New Activation Code as seen here [broken link removed]

From here on you get to choose your own PIN No & Password.

Looks like they will only accept transfers in from FA accounts, but you can set up accounts to pay to (e.g. bills, credit cards).  

I was able to set up my Credit Card, but I tried to register my non FA current A/C and got the following message:

"This service is currently unavailable. If you wish to continue with this transaction please use First Active to contact our Customer Service Advisors who will be happy to help you."


----------



## pc7

well I cancelled my application the other day only to come home today to find a letter saying the needed my ID from section A. Even though when I first applied they acknowledged all was in order as I provided ID from section A which they attached in this new letter today? So I rang to say I'd already cancelled it so he told me to ignore it that if they don't hear from me in 30 days they'll cancel it then! Its the poor system and customer service like this that made me decide to cancel.


----------



## Godfather

pc7 said:


> well I cancelled my application the other day only to come home today to find a letter saying the needed my ID from section A. Even though when I first applied they acknowledged all was in order as I provided ID from section A which they attached in this new letter today? So I rang to say I'd already cancelled it so he told me to ignore it that if they don't hear from me in 30 days they'll cancel it then! Its the poor system and customer service like this that made me decide to cancel.


 
What was more disappointing in my opinion was the fact that once you get the letter with the account no.+sort code nobody informs you that you need to log into "FA" website to proceed with the online banking registration... 

But I still hope that the internet banking of "FA" is good as Rabo. In that case my patience will be awarded as I honestly find the internet banking of "NR" quite disappointing...


----------



## GeneralZod

SS expert said:


> Hi lads,
> 
> I have sent 2000E in over 4 weeks now,
> will they backdate interest for this time ,...untill the account is opened?
> 
> thanks!



Earlier someone also reported sending in a cheque for the full €15k. 

Can the OPs report on whether FA are backdating the interest after being contacted about their tardiness?


----------



## Slim

Tried to apply online for the eSavings account. I could not get past the first screen. However, try this: when presented with the screen that asks if you are an existing customer, left click your mouse over the blue title bar at the top of the box and then "shake" the mouse about, the result is brilliant! Or else it's my computer!

Slim


----------



## Corkjoe

*Success for existing customer.*

Logged on to the FA website today and new account was up and running online with the legend- "27th Aug NEW ACCOUNT THANK YOU" (only one account they lodged both cheques to joint account which was what we had intended!). Only about two weeks from start to finish.  Reasonable  enough  timescale, in fairness, for existing customers if you can put up with the quirkeyness. Haven't nominated any  account but I suspect I can transfer from ECB Account at will. From experience, while FA have bank sort codes and standard account numbers these are not fully integrated with standard Irish banking system. It's not possible for instance for FA to transfer a withdrawl from one of their accounts electronically to an AIB account (or even Ulster) I was told in the Grafton Street Branch.


----------



## ClubMan

Slim said:


> Tried to apply online for the eSavings account. I could not get past the first screen. However, try this: when presented with the screen that asks if you are an existing customer, left click your mouse over the blue title bar at the top of the box and then "shake" the mouse about, the result is brilliant! Or else it's my computer!
> 
> Slim


I think it may just be your computer - nothing untoward happens on mine using _IE7 _or _Firefox v2.0.0.6_. You probably should scan your _PC _for malware!


----------



## GeneralZod

Got my activation code back today and made it through the choose a PIN/Password stage. It looks like the final hurdle is to ring them up to get a payee set-up for withdrawals to another bank (this is same process as with UB)  and attempt an electronic transfer into the eSavings account from my UB current account.  

All this not withstanding the posts above indicated this these two steps aren't possible.


----------



## 60watt

Can anybody clarify if its possible to transfer money from any bank account into this esaving account (e.g. from my TSB account)? 
I don't want to set up a "regular standing order"
Sectin  43.5 from T&C says that a "regular standing order" is required but in this thread, Post #430 says
Once your eSavings account is opened it is possible to transfer
money in from any nominated current account. Customers are not restricted to funding via a First Active account.


43.5 Lodgments can be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of the
Account holder's name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in the
Republic of Ireland. Lodgments can not be made by any other method. The maximum
amount which can be lodged to an Account is €1,000,000.


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, I finally got my log in details. I logged in and the web-engine for internet banking of "FA" looks very user friendly and secure. My patience in this long set-up period has been awarded I think...


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> the web-engine for internet banking of "FA" looks very user friendly and secure


What do you mean by it "looking secure"?


----------



## Godfather

Hi Clubman, sorry maybe that adjective is a bit naive now that every bank are very secure in their internet banking web-site... 

I just need to understand if I can nominate an external account for every withdrawals from the "esavings" account... The web-site doesn't allow me to create a payee via the web... Maybe I'll have to call their support no. in order to get a new "payee" created...


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> I just need to understand if I can nominate an external account for every withdrawals from the "esavings" account... The web-site doesn't allow me to create a payee via the web... Maybe I'll have to call their support no. in order to get a new "payee" created...



I just rang the FA online banking technical helpdesk 1850 500 365 and asked to set-up a new payee. 

They said I need to ring Telephone Banking at 01 7092500. That number only works 9.00am - 5.30pm. 

So much for FA's claim about being able to "open and manage your account online, anytime of the day and week".


----------



## Godfather

GeneralZod said:


> Got my activation code back today and made it through the choose a PIN/Password stage. It looks like the final hurdle is to ring them up to get a payee set-up for withdrawals to another bank (this is same process as with UB) and attempt an electronic transfer into the eSavings account from my UB current account.
> 
> All this not withstanding the posts above indicated this these two steps aren't possible.


 
I've been rerouted 7 times among different persons and I'm still talking to them about the creation of the sort code+account no. I'm going to send a complaint soon I guess!


----------



## Godfather

Finally at the 8th person I spoke with I managed to create the payee code. I just did a payment and it seems alright...

The phone no. I called was 017092500+option 3+option 2.

Finally!!!


----------



## irishpancake

Godfather said:


> I've been rerouted 7 times among different persons and I'm still talking to them about the creation of the sort code+account no. I'm going to send a complaint soon I guess!



This whole saga seems like trying to discover the Third Secret of Fatima  

Perhaps somewhere in the vaults of RBoS/FA/UB, they have the answers to our questions, simple ones like: 

"can I transfer money into this account from my own Bank a/c online, as I have been led to believe by representatives of FA/UB, etc"

"how can I do this?"

"do you want my business?"

"why did you mislead the public with your advertising regarding the Interest Rate applicable to balances > €10k?"

"why don't you answer my questions?"


----------



## sapmanie

Could someone scan and post the Tarriffs of Charges booklet that is mentioned in section 10 of the T&C? I see in some posts here that they got in their mailbox, but I haven't been able to get a copy :-(Someone with the physical copy: can you post what the charges are for the FA esavings a/c? Thanks.


----------



## ClubMan

I have a physical copy but don't think that I have the means to scan it. There are no charges on this account as far as I could ascertain.


----------



## acannydoitji

Haha, wait 'till you try & actually transfer money from TSB to FA.  On hold to customer service person at open24 for the third time.  The FA Esavings sort code is not recognised by TSB.  Just been told that the person dealing with this query has gone home & i can expect a call from them in the morning.  (However this pales into insignificance when compared to my travails in attempting to open a UK account with Citibank.)


----------



## ClubMan

acannydoitji said:


> The FA Esavings sort code is not recognised by TSB.


This issue has been mentioned at least once already in this thread.


----------



## Godfather

ClubMan said:


> This issue has been mentioned at least once already in this thread.


 
Hi guys, I prefer to laugh... Yesterday I moved a small amount from rabo to the "eSavings" account of FA... I just discovered that the amount was bounced back to Rabo... 

Thank God I don't see fees as I got the full small amount back.

Let's see if the amount I moved today from FA to Rabo will be lost... Thank God I moved only 3 euro... 

Re charges sorry I can't scan as well... 

My goodness this is more intriguing than a book of spy-stories.


----------



## Godfather

Hi 60 watt, here are my answers to your private message. Sorry but I prefer not to get private messages...

Hi Godfather,

I have been reading the Thread about FA esaving account and Im very very confused now.
As you seem to be at an advanced stage could you please tell me if the following is possible. Im not a FA customer at the moment.

1) To open the account I must send a cheque , for e.g 10 Euro. correct ?

---> As far as I understood "yes" but I personally had an ecb linked account so asked them to withdraw from that account in my case

2) can I then transfer money online into the esavings from my non FA current account.

---> Still to be checked, see my previous post

3) It's possible to nominate my non FA current account to use for withdrawing money from the esavings account ?

---> In theory "yes" but please look at my last post

4) Does the account realy require a regular standing order as stated in T&C

---> Jee... Never heard of this otherwise I'll have to close it!!! 

If you know the answer to any of the above it would be much appreciated.
Thanks in Advance


----------



## Godfather

Hey guys, from tomorrow I'll be on deserved holidays. So I'll see you for the next episodes of this "soap opera" (love and hate) when I'll be back!


----------



## boaber

Godfather said:


> 4) Does the account realy require a regular standing order as stated in T&C
> 
> ---> Jee... Never heard of this otherwise I'll have to close it!!!
> 
> If you know the answer to any of the above it would be much appreciated.



My understanding is that the standing order is only required if you want to make regular payments from your non FA current account.

You don't have to do regular payments if you don't want to.  A lump sum investment only is OK (I hope!)

This is from the Ts & Cs



> 43.5 Lodgments can be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of the
> Account holder's name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in the
> Republic of Ireland. Lodgments can not be made by any other method. The maximum
> amount which can be lodged to an Account is €1,000,000.


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> Hey guys, from tomorrow I'll be on deserved holidays. So I'll see you for the next episodes of this "soap opera" (love and hate) when I'll be back!



We'll still be here when you come back. Unless you're taking a year off to go around the world. 

There's the beginnings of a First Active Support Group here.


----------



## irishpancake

Godfather said:


> Hey guys, from tomorrow I'll be on deserved holidays. So I'll see you for the next episodes of this "soap opera" (love and hate) when I'll be back!



Hey My Godfadda

funny that, me & Ms. Irishpanacake heading off tomorrow for a full week  of R & R. Canary Tenerife. No lap-top, no FA (take it as you will), no nuttin'...........

see ya back here next week  or whenever


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, just a last post before getting into my plane. I just checked my rabo savings account and the money I moved from the eSavings FA account were there.

So once FA has created a payee sort code via the phone number I previously wrote you about then the movement of money to an external bank account seems possible.

Now it's just a matter of investigating on "why" the movements into the "eSavings" accounts originated from external accounts are not possible (sort code not yet recognized by the circuit?)... But I'll face the next episode of this challenging adventure when I'll be back.

See you and... behave! The Godfather is looking at you!


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, sorry but I couldn't resist from this new chapter of this intriguing adventure. I called the customer support of FA and I was told that the sort code isn't (yet?) recognized by the circuit but as I already had an ECB linked account at the moment first I would have to electronically lodge the money into it and then "reroute" the money to the esavings as the internet banking engine of FA seems to allow.

But I'll do this when I'll be back... Ehi! Is that my call to my plane? Wait! Wait!!! I'm here!!! 

SEE YOU!!!


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> The phone no. I called was 017092500+option 3+option 2.
> 
> Finally!!!



Rang that number, they asked for my FA sort code and account number and then after a long hold put me through to someone that asked for numbers and characters from my PIN/Password. They set up the payee. There didn't seem to be any restriction on the bank sort code/account number I could specify here. I specified my UB #1 current account. 

Then rang up Ulster Bank and set-up payees for my FA esavings and another old FA account that FA have attached to my on-line access. I shut this account down years ago but it looks like FA just zeroed the balance and left it in place. This was actually convenient as it eased the ID requirements of setting up the new account.

I will attempt test payments of a few euro to both FA accounts and see if one, both or none get through. If I can't lodge directly into the eSavings but can into the other account I'll try the re-routing method mentioned by Godfather above.

The on-line banking web-sites for UB and FA both seem to be down at the moment (same system under different "skins").  So I can't log in to verify any of this was set-up yet.

Interestingly the quality of service is better on the UB telephone banking than with FA:

First person I spoke to could deal with my request.
Less time on hold.
They even had a better accent & sounded more mature.

They share the same hold music though.

Update: Managed to log on and make the test payments in both directions. It will be next week before I know if they worked.


----------



## Lorraine

Beat this if you can all you FA groupies!!!!!!!


First Active support group?  I hope it supplies oodles of valium or a well recognised CBT course as I feel I need both!!!!!!

After my fifth telephone call, and numerous e-mail to the illusive customer care team it was confirmed - wait for it they've 'misplaced' my application and cheque for €15,000.......

Have given up, they've finally beaten me, I can't take anymore, the stress is unbearable, flipped my lid, aaaaaaggggghhhhhh................

Good news is though, watch this space, it seems that FA will cover the cost of cheque cancellation (whoohoo!), reimburse me the cost of the numerous phonecalls (wheehee!), and wait for it take a deep breath - are you sitting down THEY'LL LODGE FUNDS TO MY ULSTERBANK C/A TO COVER LOST INTEREST SINCE MY CHEQUE WAS POSTED TO THEM MID JULY.

I had a dream .....


----------



## GeneralZod

Lorraine said:


> Beat this if you can all you FA groupies!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> First Active support group?  I hope it supplies oodles of valium or a well recognised CBT course as I feel I need both!!!!!!
> 
> After my fifth telephone call, and numerous e-mail to the illusive customer care team it was confirmed - wait for it they've 'misplaced' my application and cheque for €15,000.......



I bow before you. You can be an honorary life member.

p.s. fair play to FA for refunding the interest/charges - If you're reading just try not to mess up giving this compensation.


----------



## Corkjoe

Hate to say this but I'm a happy customer although I'm with FA solely for simple no frills investment. Opened a second esavings account in my own name online to maximise the interest rate on two accounts under €15k (1st one was in joint name with wife)-took 2/3 days for 2nd account to appear online and operational!  Transfers from ECB account and between both esavings, no problem and instant. I Presume option of 3rd account for wife on her own is also an option. Happy days.


----------



## GeneralZod

I'm emerging from the tunnel now, light having been sighted about a week ago. My journey on the FA slow train started on July 10th.

All the test payments have gone through faster than expected. I guess it's because they're between FA and UB. 

As was speculated early on in this thread they don't appear to be strictly enforcing T&C 43.5 which says payments must come in by SO. This appears to be an unenforceable condition anyway.

Has anyone lodged to their FA eSavings from another bank that isn't part of the RBS Group? I've made a test payment from my AIB account to the eSavings account to see if it gets through.  

The first interest payment has also just been made by FA.

The FA on-line banking seems to allow setting up a standing order that could be used to shift cash out each month to stop the interest payment taking the balance over €15k.  T&C 43.9 forbids the use of SOs & DDs from the account. It might be easier to get away with setting up a SO as they've already set-up the payee required so all that remains to do is the scheduling of a regular payment.

*Update *- The test payment from my AIB cashsave account got through too. I'm declaring my FA eSavings Account ready for use. Time to move over the €€€s from Northern Rock.

*Update 2* - The SO set up facility doesn't display the eSavings account in the drop down list of FA accounts held so one cannot be created on-line.


----------



## jigsaw

ClubMan said:


> This issue has been mentioned at least once already in this thread.



has this issue been rectified does anybody know ?


----------



## DublinTexas

jigsaw said:


> has this issue been rectified does anybody know ?


 
Not as of this afternoon, neither PTSB nor Halifax allow me to set this account up, Sort Code invalid is the answer.

Nice account... Can't bring money onto it.. Really nice..


----------



## jigsaw

i was steering towards a firstactive esaver account but now im not so sure. might give it a while to see if they sort out the sort code issue

does anyone know if you have to set up a stading order for this esaver account or can you just lodge money into it whenever you want 

cheers


----------



## GeneralZod

jigsaw said:


> does anyone know if you have to set up a stading order for this esaver account or can you just lodge money into it whenever you want



See my earlier posts. I've been lobbing money into it whenever I want.


----------



## IrlJidel

GeneralZod said:


> See my earlier posts. I've been lobbing money into it whenever I want.



Do transfers work from Nothern Rock?

Posters have reported that transfers work from:
UB
AIB

Don't work from :
RaboDirect
PTSB
Halifax


----------



## GeneralZod

IrlJidel said:


> Do transfers work from Nothern Rock?



Haven't tried it because NR have a clumsy system where you can only have one nominated account for external transfers at a time. 
I moved it NR-->UB-->FA.

I've made a test payment from RaboDirect to see if it gets through.


----------



## MugsGame

NR external transfers originate from AIB. So if AIB transfers work, NR probably do too.


----------



## Godfather

Finally back from holidays! 

Because I had another account with FA I can now transfer amounts to the new eSavings (I just did this with no problem) but the fact that the sort-code+account no. of the eSavings doesn't seem to be recognized by electronic transfers from other "external" banks (as I can see from previous posts) remains a mistery... 

My suggestion is to interact with both FA and your bank to understand what needs to be done in order to make the esavings account more "visible" to the circuit... Hopefully it won't end in "being passed" through different phone numbers with no answer...


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> Finally back from holidays!



Welcome back. It got very quiet on this thread for a few days. FA probably dared hope we'd shut up. When's irishpancake coming back??


----------



## Godfather

Thank you General!

I admit it I missed this forum...


----------



## IrlJidel

GeneralZod said:


> I've made a test payment from RaboDirect to see if it gets through.



My RaboDirect test transfer got bounced back.

Still waiting for beneficary to appear in BOI 365 to test from BOI


----------



## Lorraine

*First Active e-savings account - not..............*

After posting 15,000 + docs to FA on 18th July which they promptly 'misplaced' and admitted to some six weeks later.  They've cancelled the cheque absorbing cancellation charges and credited €59 to my current account.  Think it should have been more but fed up with the whole carry on.


Have since opened, sucessfully and with no hassle at all, a deposit account for €10,000 with RaboDirect and added €5,000 to another deposit account.  Rates aren't as good as with FA but the extra .22% just wasnt' worth the hassle.


In time I might get the energy to put pen to paper and complain about their administration.

Informative thread, tks to all, kept me sane to know others were also having difficulties.

L


----------



## Slim

Lorraine

If you had lodged the max. €15k to your FA esavings account, as soon as the first interest payment is made, does the rate not drop to the 4.05%?

Slim


----------



## ClubMan

Slim said:


> If you had lodged the max. €15k to your FA esavings account, as soon as the first interest payment is made, does the rate not drop to the 4.05%?


Yes - so you should lodge less or withdraw the interest ASAP as mentioned previously several times in this thread.


----------



## GeneralZod

IrlJidel said:


> My RaboDirect test transfer got bounced back.



My attempt to transfer from RaboDirect to FA has also been bounced back.


----------



## sapmanie

ClubMan, 18-07-2007, 10:20 PM  :





> I already complained by email to FA and IFSRA about the lack of the charges tariff booklet on their website or in the package that applicants receive. I have heard nothing back in two days from either.


Got an email reply from them today saying that there is no Tarriffs of Charges booklet because this account has no charges :-o


----------



## IrlJidel

GeneralZod said:


> My attempt to transfer from RaboDirect to FA has also been bounced back.



Can anyone confirm if transfers work from BOI?


----------



## maddad

Hi, 

I too have opened one of these accounts.  Get the impression over the phone that they're making it up as they go along!  

Trying to set up once off payments from EBS account.  Has anyone done this successfully yet into esavings account?  Latest today when onto EBS is that they are having difficulty recognising FA sort code and that they are looking into the matter.ea


----------



## mobilegirl

Transfers don't work from NIB either, sigh


----------



## DublinTexas

So I got a PAPER statement for the account yesterday (wow paper statements for an online only account) which featured next to the usual account details an IBAN number for the account.

So I tried again from Halifax but SortCode not allowed, so I went to my UK bank account and tried it with the IBAN and that seams to work.

What for a strange bank! Can't set up the sort code with IPSO but international.


----------



## Godfather

DublinTexas said:


> What for a strange bank! Can't set up the sort code with IPSO but international.


 
Incredible!!!


----------



## titchmurph

Just to let you know that FA have lost my cheque, put in my application July 21st and finally the account is open with nothing in it! They have promised to sort it out, but it really is not worth all this hassle.

Regards,
Titch


----------



## cork

I transferred 1 euro using AIB phone banking - it worked.

Can you access the FA online using  phone banking?


----------



## SS expert

I sent the from in on the 13th of july

They sent my tax certs etc.. back to me 3 weeks ago (i assumed the account was open) with out a cover letter!

just rang them to get account number etc... and there is no record of my documentation and that if i want to open an account I have to apply again.

NO CHANCE IM DOING THAT!!!!


----------



## carpedeum

ClubMan said:


> Yes - so you should lodge less or withdraw the interest ASAP as mentioned previously several times in this thread.


 
Hi Clubman,

Would you have any idea of the business logic of FA's following policy:-

*€15,001 - €1,000,000 *
*4.00 % Gross**4.07% AER*
*€1 - €15,000 *
*5.10% Gross**5.22% AER*
*"If the balance of your savings is €15001 or above you will get an AER of 4.07% on the whole balance."* 

Surely, good marketing dictates retaining the higher rate on balances up to €15000 and then reducing the rate on the excess over €15000, similar to rabodirect's policy?


----------



## sapmanie

In light of the Northern Rock digital run (and despite the pain that people seem to be going thru' simply to open an a/c, if the 17 pages of posts here are anything to go by!), are people happy with banking with yet another pure-Internet banking a/c, and with a bank that's little more than a mortgage store??

Why do you think they're offering such a relatively high interest rate? Perhaps it's to offset a little thing called _risk_?


----------



## IrlJidel

sapmanie said:


> In light of the Northern Rock digital run (and despite the pain that people seem to be going thru' simply to open an a/c, if the 17 pages of posts here are anything to go by!), are people happy with banking with yet another pure-Internet banking a/c, and with a bank that's little more than a mortgage store??



They are more than that: 

In 2003 First Active was acquired by Ulster Bank Limited, part of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group.


----------



## IrlJidel

IrlJidel said:


> Can anyone confirm if transfers work from BOI?



To answer my own question, I can confirm transfers work from BOI to FA


----------



## Godfather

Sorry don't want o advertise anything but if anyone already has an account with UB or FA I think that the "esavings" works great: I can switch money between the 2 accounts I have very easily as well as transfer money out from the esavings quickly...

I know about the annoying moments we faced with the set-up but the patience is awarded in my opinion at the end...


----------



## magicbeans

Lost cheques, problems transferring money IN, lost paperwork, delays, quirky website, possible unseen charges etc.

As a Northern Rock Refugee, I find it incredible that people are willing to put up with all of this just to open an online First Active a/c and earn themselves only approx. €200 to €300 more than 15k the post office would earn them over a year. (note I said approx.)

Can you imagine how long it would take to get your money out of FA if they had a scare ?

I used to be a "rate tart" as well, and would do anything to get my extra 0.5%, but trust me after going though what I and countless others went though with Northern Wreck, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. 

If you are thinking of putting money into this or any other online a/c, based on my experience, at the very least make sure that you can do without any access to the money over a two-three week period in times of trouble. I really thought I'd never see a bank run, let alone be in one. I thought it was for black and white films.


----------



## CKT

Just about to open FA account, but dont know whether to put full 30k in or put 15k in rabo aswell


----------



## GeneralZod

CKT said:


> Just about to open FA account, but dont know whether to put full 30k in or put 15k in rabo aswell



Keep the amount in FA below €15,001 to avail of the higher 5.22% AER rate. If you put in more money the lower 4.07% rate applies to the full balance, unlike the banded rates you get with RaboDirect.

It really is bizarre that FA have an interest rate regime that encourages people to deposit _less not more_ money with them.


----------



## IrlJidel

Did another test transfer from Rabodirect to FA esaver over the weekend and I can confirm that transfers now work from rabo. Also worked from BOI.


----------



## Godfather

I see that this thread has calmed down now... It reached half of the NR thread... Quite an achievement!!!


----------



## desperatedan

Hi 

Just for clarity can I ask the following:

Has there been a definitive response regarding lodgements and withdrawals regarding the FA eSavings Account?

To illustrate can I quote the following:

From FAQ at [broken link removed]



> Can my initial lodgement be taken from an account which is not a First Active account?
> 
> No, your initial lodgement can either be taken from a First Active account or you can send us a personal cheque. Once your account is opened it is possible to transfer funds by standing order or electronic transfer into your eSavings account from any account which has the facility to set up standing orders or electronic transfers.



Extract From Savings and Deposit Accounts Terms & Conditions ([broken link removed])



> Additional Terms and Conditions for eSavings Account
> 
> 43.5 Lodgments can be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of the
> Account holder's name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in the
> Republic of Ireland. Lodgments can not be made by any other method. The maximum
> amount which can be lodged to an Account is €1,000,000.
> 
> 43.6 Withdrawals from an Account can only be made by transfer to a First Active account
> or other nominated non First Active account in one or more of the Account holder’s
> name(s). Withdrawals cannot be made by any other method.




The first quote seems to indicate that electronic transfers can be made from any ROI account with the facility. (Not talking about SO's, just one-off or occasional lodgements).

The second quote seems to rule out anything but lodgements from existing FA account, or *regular Standing Order* from any bank in ROI.

Has anyone had any experience of operating this account, and lodgeing one-off or occasional funds from non-FA banks?


----------



## boaber

IrlJidel states above that EFTs from Rabo & BOI to the FA eSavings A/C work

Haven't tried it myself


----------



## GeneralZod

desperatedan said:


> Has anyone had any experience of operating this account, and lodgeing one-off or occasional funds from non-FA banks?



Since the start of September I've made 6 lodgements to my FA account. All of them were one-offs.

3 From UB
2 from AIB
1 from another FA account.

Half of these were test payments of a few euro.


----------



## jigsaw

has anybody successfully transferred money from a halifax account to a FA esaver account yet?


----------



## desperatedan

GeneralZod said:


> Since the start of September I've made 6 lodgements to my FA account. All of them were one-offs.
> 
> 3 From UB
> 2 from AIB
> 1 from another FA account.
> 
> Half of these were test payments of a few euro.



Thanx for that General and other ranks..

It seems that lodgements are possible, as per the FA website, despite the T&C's ruling this out!!

I suppose it is just a shot in the dark with FA, as they seem not to have worked out how to communicate this product to the general public.

I will however give it a go, as the return on amounts <€15K is pretty good.

My banks would be Rabo and Halifax.


----------



## Jethro Tull

There is an advert for this account in the Irish times today. Clearly states that the lower rate applied to entire balance if over €15k. Does this mean they're finally gonna get their act together re account opening etc?


----------



## sherib

All the questions that have exercised people seem to be answered by First Active now: [broken link removed]

Since I can't see it anywhere, I'm wondering for how long does F.A. guarantee the rate of 5.22%? Also, is there any reason to believe that F.A. is a "safer" bank than N.R.?

I'd also be interested to know if any banks other than A.I.B. have any restriction on the amount that can be transferred. That Q never occurred to me until I discovered last week that A.I.B. restricts electronic transfers to €5,000 daily and none on Sunday. If N.R. had had that policy, it would have taken quite a while to remove one's savings electronically. Northern Rock's misfortune has been an education.


----------



## eileen alana

Permanent TSB restricts electronic transfers to €3,000 daily.


----------



## IrlJidel

sherib said:


> I'd also be interested to know if any banks other than A.I.B. have any restriction on the amount that can be transferred. That Q never occurred to me until I discovered last week that A.I.B. restricts electronic transfers to €5,000 daily and none on Sunday. If N.R. had had that policy, it would have taken quite a while to remove one's savings electronically. Northern Rock's misfortune has been an education.



BOI restrict to 20k daily


----------



## boaber

sherib said:


> Also, is there any reason to believe that F.A. is a "safer" bank than N.R.?



FA are part of the RBS Group - so I think it's safe enough to assume they'll be OK


----------



## GeneralZod

UB have a €13k daily limit for electronic transfers.


----------



## ClubMan

eileen alana said:


> Permanent TSB restricts electronic transfers to €3,000 daily.


In case it's of any interest to anybody with _PTSB _you can actually do €6K per day - €3K by _Open24 _online banking and another €3K by telephone banking. Strange (at least to me when I found out) but true.


----------



## Jethro Tull

ClubMan said:


> In case it's of any interest to anybody with _PTSB _you can actually do €6K per day - €3K by _Open24 _online banking and another €3K by telephone banking. Strange (at least to me when I found out) but true.


 
Nice one. I remember lodging my SSIA into northern rock, took forever!!


----------



## maddad

Hi, 

just to report back....transfers now possible from ebs online to esavings account.  Problems with sort code rectified.


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Nice one. I remember lodging my SSIA into northern rock, took forever!!


I presume that there is no limit on the amount that you can transfer if you execute the transaction in a _PTSB _branch office?


----------



## Jethro Tull

ClubMan said:


> I presume that there is no limit on the amount that you can transfer if you execute the transaction in a _PTSB _branch office?


 
No idea tbh. Should've just send them a cheque but no point saying that now!

Btw eventhough the limit I can transfer by online banking is €3k how much can I move in one go using Rabo money mover? Will it still be €3k or more since I'm not using their online electronic transfer system


----------



## ClubMan

Isn't _Rabo Money Mover _basically a direct debit in which case whatever (if any) limit normally applies to _DDs _would apply here?


----------



## sherib

I set up a _Rabo Money Mover_ yesterday as a test. It seems to offer a regular transfer like a Direct Debit or a once off transfer. Downside is that it seems to take 7 days.


----------



## matrix1

I have received the eSavings forms. 

I am planning to transfer in funds from an AIB online account - I'm assuming from what I've read here that this will go through OK? Can I transfer from the First Active savings back to AIB? Are there any charges for this? 

I do not plan to pay in monthly (just a small initial deposit - and then via AIB).

Cheers!


----------



## Godfather

matrix1 said:


> I have received the eSavings forms.
> 
> I am planning to transfer in funds from an AIB online account - I'm assuming from what I've read here that this will go through OK? Can I transfer from the First Active savings back to AIB? Are there any charges for this?
> 
> I do not plan to pay in monthly (just a small initial deposit - and then via AIB).
> 
> Cheers!


 
Hi matrix1, re transfers from AIB you need to look at the previous posts because I'm a PTSB customer. Re "Can I transfer from the First Active savings back to AIB?" -> Yes, you can do like me: I called the FA help-desk and got a "payee" account created for my on-line profile. Re "Are there any charges for this?" as far as I know none.


----------



## matrix1

Godfather said:


> Hi matrix1, re transfers from AIB you need to look at the previous posts because I'm a PTSB customer. Re "Can I transfer from the First Active savings back to AIB?" -> Yes, you can do like me: I called the FA help-desk and got a "payee" account created for my on-line profile. Re "Are there any charges for this?" as far as I know none.



Thanks for this. Was wondering about any sort code issues - they have obviously sorted this out! Looks like eSavings will be a useful alternative to Rabo then (especially if Rabo don't extend their 5% rate beyond Christmas).


----------



## Godfather

matrix1 said:


> Thanks for this. Was wondering about any sort code issues - they have obviously sorted this out! Looks like eSavings will be a useful alternative to Rabo then (especially if Rabo don't extend their 5% rate beyond Christmas).


 
I do agree. Since I have it (apart from the initial difficulties in having the internet banking access+problems with the sort code) I really like this account.


----------



## Conshine

jigsaw said:


> has anybody successfully transferred money from a halifax account to a FA esaver account yet?


 

Apparently there is an IT issue with the sort code - you get a message when you try to transfer online saying that the sort code is invalid.

I emailed them:
_I have reported a problem with a First Active Sort Code a week ago to your help desk and although I am ringing them every day, nobody is ever able to tell me when the problem will be resolved. I am trying to do an online transfer and I a message telling me that the sort code is invalid_
_Can you help???_
_The sort code is 98-88-16_
_I spoke to First Active and they say that they notified all banks of the new sort code on the 12th of August 2007. This was nearly two months ago._​They said:

_In order to investigate your complaint I would appreciate if you could forward me your full name, address and account number at your earliest convenience._
_Your concerns will be dealt with as quickly as possible and I will be in contact with you as soon as I have an answer on this. However if you do need to speak with me in the meantime, you can contact me on REMOVED BY MODERATOR._
[SIZE=+0]_Yours sincerely,_[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]_REMOVED BY MODERATOR_​
​
When I asked to have an honest straight answer on how long it will take for their IT dept to sort this out, she said that the last time they had a similar issue is was a couple of weeks.

Give her a call - the more that ring, the quicker they will sort it!​[/SIZE]

_Halifax employee direct contact details removed by moderator -- please don't post individual contact details. They are not the public face of the organisation._


----------



## Jethro Tull

Has anyone opened an account with FA recently? Just wondering are all the problems that were occuring when the account was first publicised still occuring. I applied online today in order to find a home for my Rabo savings if (when?) they cut their interest rate in December. Just wondering does it still take an age for a non FA account holder to open an account.


----------



## MugsGame

Yes, but I gave up trying to open it by post. See my note in the Best Buys.



> If you are not an existing customer, there may be a long delay while FA process your application. A reliable way to open an e-Savings account is 1) Visit an FA branch and open a different savings account (e.g. their Regular Saver account), 2) Register for online banking, 3) Wait a few days for the access code, 4) Login and apply for the e-Savings account from within online banking, 5) Login a few days later and the new account should be there.


----------



## Godfather

Hi Jethro,

although FA has got v. good interest rates the opening of the esavings is v. bumpy in my opinion because it's done via central HQ... So be ready for lots of patience needed!

But for ECB linked and reg. savers the life is different because it's dealt with the lovely efficient subsidiary!

I hope this helps...

P.S.: I promise I'm not an RBS shareholder... It's just my opinion


----------



## CKT

GeneralZod said:


> Since the start of September I've made 6 lodgements to my FA account. All of them were one-offs.
> 
> 3 From UB
> 2 from AIB
> 1 from another FA account.
> 
> Half of these were test payments of a few euro.



Hi I just tried to transfer money from my AIB a/c. I have a code card already but I couldn't go any further without ordering a new one......how do i transfer ???? Stupid question maybe


----------



## GeneralZod

CKT said:


> Hi I just tried to transfer money from my AIB a/c. I have a code card already but I couldn't go any further without ordering a new one......how do i transfer ???? Stupid question maybe



I did it the way it sounds like you attempted to.

Transfer Money--->Add Account  (stage requires code card)

Then when that's done

Transfer Money--->Select To/From Accounts & Input amount in cents--->Send Funds


----------



## Jethro Tull

MugsGame said:


> Yes, but I gave up trying to open it by post. See my note in the Best Buys.


 
seems like a good idea, thanks. I'll drop into my local branch at lunch time some day this week.


----------



## CKT

Thanks GeneralZod,

It didnt show the add account screen yesterday, my code card must have been out of date, and I was requested to order another one...thanks again


----------



## emoclew

A FA adviser told me the rate syands until 2009 & will be adjusted then!


----------



## ClubMan

Not sure if this has already been raised already  but why do _FA _statements on these accounts just quote a single interest payment figure and not the gross and net (of _DIRT_) figures?


----------



## GeneralZod

I suspect it's an inadequacy in their RBS group systems. My UB eSavings account has the same issue.


----------



## MugsGame

As oldtimer pointed out to me, the lower rate was raised recently to 4.33%.


----------



## Gautama

Jethro Tull said:


> Has anyone opened an account with FA recently?


 
Yes, I opened an account last month.



Jethro Tull said:


> Just wondering are all the problems that were occuring when the account was first publicised still occuring.


 
No, it took about four days. Then registered for the online banking, took about another four days. I opened an Ulster Bank account simultaenously; the whole procedure and times were identical.




Jethro Tull said:


> Just wondering does it still take an age for a non FA account holder to open an account.


 
Nope, I'm non FA as well.

Only last week did I realise about the reduced interest rate with FA balances over €15k so tried to withdraw the some funds. This is currently unavailable online and telephone banking is required.


----------



## Gautama

Gautama said:


> ...This is currently unavailable online and telephone banking is required.


 
Telephoned today, set it up, some funds are being withdrawn.

Overall answer, there are no delays (now) with the First Active e-savings account.


----------



## dobbins

Hi, i know i can contact first active about this but if someone here knows the answer to my question off the top of their head, that'd be great.

Have a first active e-savings account, deposited €10k in early September. At the end of Sep, i was paid interest of €7.33. At the end of Oct, i was paid interest of €36.95. However, at the end of Nov, i was only paid interest of €33.72.

Why did the interest paid go down in November? I would have expected it to go up as the cash has been on deposit for longer?


----------



## MugsGame

Thirty days hath November.


----------



## cork

I set up a FA regular saver - monthly direct debit came out of my current account yesterday - still no sign of it in my FA account.


----------



## MysticX

Okay after setting up a FA Regular Savings, applied for the eSavings via online banking:
Went smoothly enough as it picked up my existing details as an existing FA customer though was wondering if the following points could be cleared up(partly in due because they used some kind of generic form?):
-At the end of the online application I received an account number and sort code, though beforehand the application enforced an initial opening deposit... only option was "cash/cheque" though I thought you could take it from an existing FA account? Needless to say I didn't get any more details on how to make the initial deposit apart from agreeing to cash/cheque(don't allow you to say no)... no further action on this so without an _actual _deposit taken, is the account really opened.. having received account no.. etc?
-For you people who have gone through this, how long does it normally take for the eSavings account to appear with your other accounts in online banking?


----------



## Godfather

Wow guys,

food for thought: if I look quickly in this part of the forum in 2007 the posts with more replies were:
Northern Rock bailed out by Bank of England  880 
Eddie Hobbs new Brendan Investments vehicle 501
First Active e-savings account 378

Apart from the 1st (traumatic) event which is of course 1st in the ranking and the fact that Eddie Hobbs is more and more a salesman rather than an independent advisor (2nd) the fact that FA has got a shocking customer service with their e-savings account gives lots to think about...

I mean, I'm happy to have my esavings account with them but I still remember when they kept rerouting me between different free-phone nos when I was setting up my account... Shocking...


----------



## Raul

Hello folks, I'm thinking of setting up an ESavings account and have already emailed a series of questions. One of the previous posts says the rate is gauranteed until 2009? Is this true?

The main driver for me here is Rabo reducing their rates and I usually save 1K per month. I usually have 3-5K in the account at all times with 1K being drip fed to my Ango Irish regular saver account every month (account reaches 2 year maturity in 7 months).

I've found the online process of this very easy (moving ~1K per month from my BOI current account to Rabo, standing order from Rabo to Anglo Irish every month and general website usage). From reading this thread, it seems that FA have got their act together after some initial hickups.

My plan is to open an FA account and move my savings there and set up a standing order for 1K to Anglo Irish every month. I will keep the Rabo account open with the minimum deposit of 1 euro. Is this a good idea or a lot more hassle than it's worth? Is this FA account worth it?


----------



## ClubMan

I have seen no rate guarantee to date on the _FA _account.


----------



## Raul

Thanks Clubman. I can't see it myself on their website. In your experience of this FA account, is it as easy to manage transfers as with Rabo as outlined in the opening post?


----------



## MysticX

> Okay after setting up a FA Regular Savings, applied for the eSavings via online banking:
> Went smoothly enough as it picked up my existing details as an existing FA customer though was wondering if the following points could be cleared up(partly in due because they used some kind of generic form?):
> -At the end of the online application I received an account number and sort code, though beforehand the application enforced an initial opening deposit... only option was "cash/cheque" though I thought you could take it from an existing FA account? Needless to say I didn't get any more details on how to make the initial deposit apart from agreeing to cash/cheque(don't allow you to say no)... no further action on this so without an _actual _deposit taken, is the account really opened.. having received account no.. etc?


 
To conclude my story with FA, looks like applying for the eSavings within online banking doesn't require an opening balance from an existing FA account or a cheque to be sent in(exception to that stated requirement in the FAQ page). Complete the online application, you immediately get the account number and sort code and wait ~one working day and it appears in your online profile. Quite painless and fast if you overlook some of the unnecessary details in the generic form.

Finally I saw to getting a payee added. Took five minutes max.
I used this number:
1850211575 + 2(Speak directly to FA telephone banking customer service)
Curiously I note that other people from previous posts were using a different number?

So happy days for now.


----------



## Godfather

Wow! Took note!


----------



## Jethro Tull

just about to post off my cheque, is it just 'First Active plc' I make the cheque out to?


----------



## I{U}Ireland

I do not have an account with them, I submitted my details online on 20/12/2007, it was supposed that they should post me forms I am still waiting

is this delays coz of holidays?


----------



## ClubMan

MysticX said:


> Finally I saw to getting a payee added. Took five minutes max.
> I used this number:
> 1850211575 + 2(Speak directly to FA telephone banking customer service)
> Curiously I note that other people from previous posts were using a different number?


I hadn't used their online system since I opened the account a few months back. Just tried it today but couldn't remember my customer number. Called support and got it after answering the security questions. Logged in and enabled the card reader access to the account.Then called the number above later to add my _PTSB _current account as a payee. No problems doing any of this.



I{U}Ireland said:


> I do not have an account with them, I submitted my details online on 20/12/2007, it was supposed that they should post me forms I am still waiting
> 
> is this delays coz of holidays?


Most likely yes.


----------



## Nemesis

ClubMan said:


> I hadn't used their online system since I opened the account a few months back. Just tried it today but couldn't remember my customer number. Called support and got it after answering the security questions. Logged in and enabled the card reader access to the account.Then called the number above later to add my _PTSB _current account as a payee. No problems doing any of this.



I was a bit disappointed that the card reader doesn't also enable you to set up payees yourself. The website looks like it's designed to facilitate this but it's not enabled. Not that big of a deal I suppose but if AIB and Rabo can do it I don't see why FA can't.


----------



## GeneralZod

Nemesis said:


> I was a bit disappointed that the card reader doesn't also enable you to set up payees yourself. The website looks like it's designed to facilitate this but it's not enabled. Not that big of a deal I suppose but if AIB and Rabo can do it I don't see why FA can't.



The ability to do this seems to be gone at Ulster Bank also which uses the same systems as First Active. It seems to come or go with no discernible rhyme or reason.


----------



## Nemesis

That's a shame. Prefer to be able to set these things up without having to talk to call centre staff if possible. Oh well, at least it's not as bad as PTSB who have to call you back about two hours later to confirm details and set things up. It's strange just how different procedures can be from one bank to another.


----------



## ClubMan

Nemesis said:


> Oh well, at least it's not as bad as PTSB who have to call you back about two hours later to confirm details and set things up.


I think that this approach is good as a small additional layer of security when making changes to your account. I'm happy to trade a small amount of convenience for an increase in security in this case.


----------



## Godfather

Hi guys, I got a bit lost... I've the card reader as well+card+PIN... If the log in is still done in the old way what's the card reader needed for sorry???


----------



## ClubMan

The card reader is used for authorising individual transactions. The login still happens the old way (using customer number plus digits from _PIN _plus characters from password).


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather said:


> Hi guys, I got a bit lost... I've the card reader as well+card+PIN... If the log in is still done in the old way what's the card reader needed for sorry???



Good question.

On the UB side I can still use the card/reader/PIN to amend and create standing orders but the T&Cs for the FA eSavings account don't allow this. 

You need a normal demand account for SOs and DDs.

"Ocassionally" you may be asked to authorise an individual transaction, you are supposed to able to set up new payees too.


----------



## Godfather

Thank you General+clubman, but yesterday I moved money from the FA esavings+ECB linked without any need for the card reader... Probably that will be needed for movements outside the FA accounts... Thank you for clarifying!


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> Thank you General+clubman, but yesterday I moved money from the FA esavings+ECB linked without any need for the card reader... Probably that will be needed for movements outside the FA accounts... Thank you for clarifying!


Did you enable your account for use with the card reader? If not the card reader is irrelevant until you do.


----------



## Godfather

Hi Clubman, sorry I didn't do it... How can I enable it sorry? Are the instructions in the same link you sent?


----------



## Godfather

Hi clubman, I just logged to FA and enable my card reader. Thank you so much!


----------



## MysticX

> Hi guys, I got a bit lost... I've the card reader as well+card+PIN... If the log in is still done in the old way what's the card reader needed for sorry???


 
Err...I never got any of the card reader stuff. Do you have to explicitly request it? Sounds like something that I will need eventually, so is it much trouble getting it up and running?


----------



## ClubMan

MysticX said:


> Err...I never got any of the card reader stuff. Do you have to explicitly request it?


No - they sent it out automatically to me anyway.


> Sounds like something that I will need eventually, so is it much trouble getting it up and running?


I thought it was easy enough. Have you looked at the "tutorial"?


----------



## Godfather

Easy easy I have to say... But I agree I'm disappointed you still can't create payees...


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> Easy easy I have to say... But I agree I'm disappointed you still can't create payees...


Yeah - but it only took about five minutes to do this on the phone yesterday.


----------



## Godfather

Thank you Clubman, that's reassuring...


----------



## irishpancake

I must admit to being puzzled with the references to a Card Reader linked to the FA eSaver account.

I have both FA eSaver and the new FA Regular Saver account.

I have set up my Halifax account as a payee from my eSaver, by contacting FA customer services (very easy).

I can move money from the Regular Saver to the eSaver with FA on-line banking, and out to my Halifax Current a/c if necessary.

I got an ATM Card in the post for the Reg Saver, but no mention of the Card Reader!!

As I had not requested an ATM card for use, I rang FA locally, and they said these cards issue whether requested or not, but not to worry, I don't have to activate it, just destroy!!!!

Am I an eejit, or what  

I just thought that I have enough cards, and I can easily move money to my Halifax account and use my Halifax card, if I need to.

However, I am disappointed that FA locally did not mention this Card Reader, as I love gadgets, and enhanced security.

Is there not also a Government Tax for those ATM cards??


----------



## Godfather

Hi irishpancake, excellent comments!!!  When I got the ATM card from FA (because connected to the reg. saver) I ran straight to the local subsidiary asking them to destroy it because:
- I never requested it
- there is govt. stamp duty on it


----------



## ClubMan

irishpancake said:


> I have set up my Halifax account as a payee from my eSaver, by contacting FA customer services (very easy).
> 
> I can move money from the Regular Saver to the eSaver with FA on-line banking, and out to my Halifax Current a/c if necessary.


I have just done the same with my _PTSB _current account as the destination. Haven't tried it the other way yet.


> I got an ATM Card in the post for the Reg Saver, but no mention of the Card Reader!!


The card I got for my _eSavings _account is an "Online Banking Card". On the back it says "This is not a payment card". I got the card one day, the reader another day and the initial _PIN _for the paid on a third day.


> As I had not requested an ATM card for use, I rang FA locally, and they said these cards issue whether requested or not, but not to worry, I don't have to activate it, just destroy!!!!


_SD _is only charged on _ATM _cards if you actually use them in any tax year.


> Am I an eejit, or what


I don't think so. The plethora of accounts, card types, credentials, security mechanisms etc. can be confusing in my opinion.


> I just thought that I have enough cards, and I can easily move money to my Halifax account and use my Halifax card, if I need to.


I'm not sure if the card reader only applies to the _eSavings _account or other _FA _accounts. 


> Is there not also a Government Tax for those ATM cards??


[broken link removed].



> *Any other exemptions?
> 
> *  There are a number of exemptions to stamp duty in relation to ATM cards, debit cards and combined cards:
> 
> If the card is not used during the year
> Where the card is issued in respect of a deposit account, the average daily positive 	balance of which does not exceed €12.70
> If the card has only been used to request a chequebook, a balance statement, to establish a 	customer identity or to establish a correct customer account number.


----------



## GeneralZod

Does your card say "On-Line Banking Card" on it? This is not an ATM card it is just for use with the reader. No TAX on the card if it isn't useable in an ATM machine.


----------



## ClubMan

GeneralZod said:


> Does your card say "On-Line Banking Card" on it? This is not an ATM card it is just for use with the reader. No TAX on the card if it isn't useable in an ATM machine.


And no tax on an _ATM _or debit or combined _ATM_/debit card that is not used during the year. Unlike _CCs _which are subject to _SD _once issued _ATM_/debit cards are only subject to _SD _if they are used.


----------



## irishpancake

GeneralZod said:


> Does your card say "On-Line Banking Card" on it? This is not an ATM card it is just for use with the reader. No TAX on the card if it isn't useable in an ATM machine.



Hi General.

The bits of the now cut-up card I have recovered say "F/A Reg Sav" with the NSC shown below....(God, I feel stupid rummaging in my bin here, hope no-one sees me   again). 

And of course my name Mr. Irish Pancake 

It is called an ATM card, and ther is an activation sticker on it, which can be removed once the PIN is issued, following FA's receipt of my Activation Form, to be sent in by pre-paid envelope.

So I don't know if this is a real ATM card or not, but it came with info regarding use internationally, in the UK, and in Ireland, particularly UB ATM's.

Thanks Clubman, there will definitely be no Tax paid on this particular card, as I have just cut up the bits it was already cut into, as an added security measure


----------



## damoz

Just a question. I went over the 15k threshold on the a/c - FA put a extra 0 in my direct debit and took 1800 euro too much into the a/c ! I then made a withdrawl to bring the balance back below 15k (and fixed the direct debit). Will i get the higher interest rate applied again to the balance as it is below 15k again.


----------



## GeneralZod

Irishpancake, it sounds like you do have a cut-up ATM card there. The Online Banking Card is black with a grey strip at the bottom and writing in white except for the 16 digit number that's in embossed silver. On the back it says "this is not a payment card".


----------



## MysticX

Mmmm okay got no cards or associated card reader in the post... lucky me.
I signed up for online banking via the web... which I presumed you guys did as well? Didn't miss a checkbox for the card reader or anything did I?
Once you were setup with online banking, did it take long for the card reader, card and pin to arrive? (just in case they're gridlocked in the post due to the recent Xmas period)

Well don't need the ATM card so no loss there, though so far I didn't need a card reader for any actions on online banking. Namely adding payees(phone FA telephone banking) and moving interest out to external accounts(requiring only PIN digits).

So from a functional point of view, it's optional? It's intended goals are:
-Enhanced security
-Less hassle to do certain things(i.e. not having to call FA)?

Well from FA help regarding getting a cr:


> *How do I get a card reader?*
> *Card readers are only required for specific transactions. Once you carry out one of these transactions we will automatically send a card reader in the post. If you require an additional or replacement card reader, please contact our Enhanced Security Helpdesk on 1890 25 26 08.*


 
Mmmm so definetly worth a shot calling the number above to get one to ensure you'll have full capabilities online, if not for the extra security? No charges I hope?


----------



## Godfather

Guys, I got the ATM card as well with my FA Reg. Saver... And it's called ATM card in the letter...No risk of confusion!


----------



## ClubMan

MysticX said:


> Mmmm okay got no cards or associated card reader in the post... lucky me.
> I signed up for online banking via the web... which I presumed you guys did as well?


Yes in my case.


> Didn't miss a checkbox for the card reader or anything did I?


No. Maybe they just haven't gotten around to sending the cards/readers/PINs out to all _eSavings _customers yet?


> Once you were setup with online banking, did it take long for the card reader, card and pin to arrive? (just in case they're gridlocked in the post due to the recent Xmas period)


I opened my _eSavings _account back in August. I only got the other stuff before _Xmas_. I don't think that the card/reader was available before this. I think they're only rolling it out now.


> Well don't need the ATM card so no loss there, though so far I didn't need a card reader for any actions on online banking. Namely adding payees(phone FA telephone banking) and moving interest out to external accounts(requiring only PIN digits).


At the moment even if you have the card/reader you don't have to use it. You can explicitly enable it if you choose. Not sure if they will eventually make it mandatory?


> So from a functional point of view, it's optional? It's intended goals are:
> -Enhanced security


Yes.


> -Less hassle to do certain things(i.e. not having to call FA)?


Not sure.


> Mmmm so definetly worth a shot calling the number above to get one to ensure you'll have full capabilities online, if not for the extra security? No charges I hope?


No charges.


----------



## MysticX

> Just a question. I went over the 15k threshold on the a/c - FA put a extra 0 in my direct debit and took 1800 euro too much into the a/c ! I then made a withdrawl to bring the balance back below 15k (and fixed the direct debit). Will i get the higher interest rate applied again to the balance as it is below 15k again.


 
It's calculated daily and added monthly so in theory wouldn't you get the lower rate for those days in which you were over 15K, though as soon as you knocked it back below 15K it should switch back to the higher rate for the following days? Not sure if its different in practise...


----------



## Guest127

have the  fa made any statement or promises how long they intend to keep this 5.22% rate?


----------



## ClubMan

cuchulainn said:


> have the  fa made any statement or promises how long they intend to keep this 5.22% rate?


No.


----------



## irishpancake

GeneralZod said:


> Irishpancake, it sounds like you do have a cut-up ATM card there. The Online Banking Card is black with a grey strip at the bottom and writing in white except for the 16 digit number that's in embossed silver. On the back it says "this is not a payment card".



Hi there General Z

Guess what was waiting for me on arrival home this evening??

Only the sef-same First Active "Online Banking Card", as described by your good self 

They have called it a replacement card in the mail that came with the card. 

The mail is headed "Even Tighter Security for our FA Online Banking Service".

They point me towards  for more info re enhanced security.

So next I can expect a pin, and then the Card Reader??

I can't wait, I'm so excited


----------



## ClubMan

You will get the card reader in a few days. Then you will get the initial _PIN _for the card/reader. Did you not read the earlier parts of this thread where all of this is already covered?


----------



## GeneralZod

Yes, the card reader and PIN.

You then follow a boring procedure to enable it.

And then nothing, that's when the new gadget interest ends. 

As others mentioned there's not much that can be done with it at the moment.


----------



## ClubMan

GeneralZod said:


> Yes, the card reader and PIN.
> 
> You then follow a boring procedure to enable it.
> 
> And then nothing, that's when the new gadget interest ends.
> 
> As others mentioned there's not much that can be done with it at the moment.


Not true - you can enable your account for use with the card/reader and then when you perform certain operations (e.g. transfers out for one thing) you will need to use the card/reader to authorise them.


----------



## GeneralZod

ClubMan said:


> Not true - you can enable your account for use with the card/reader and then when you perform certain operations (e.g. transfers out for one thing) you will need to use the card/reader to authorise them.



I just scheduled a €60 payment out to my UB current account to be made on January 30th without the use of the reader. I think it will only "[broken link removed]" ask for authorisation for this kind of transaction. I've yet to have cause to use it since enabling it.


----------



## ClubMan

The transfer that I did was not a scheduled one and I was asked to confirm using the card/reader.

*Update: *correction - I did a payment to an external (_PTSB_) account and not a transfer. Maybe that difference is significant?


----------



## GeneralZod

I just tried an immediate payment and no prompt for reader. Given the "occasionally" (FA's word not mine) we're not necessarily observing inconsistent behaviour. I'm enabled for the reader as if I start to create a SO it prompts me for it.

*Update:* I've also got a normal FA demand account and I just bounced a euro back and forth between the eSavings and the demand account without being prompted for the reader.


----------



## ClubMan

OK - I did likewise and was not asked for card/reader authorisation this time. Odd - maybe the card/reader system knocks off at 5PM?


----------



## irishpancake

ClubMan said:


> You will get the card reader in a few days. Then you will get the initial _PIN _for the card/reader. Did you not read the earlier parts of this thread where all of this is already covered?



Hey, lighten up there Clubman. Why so tetchy 

I think if you look back to the earlier days of this thread, I was instrumental, along with your good self, GeneralZod, Godfather and others, in clarifying the terms and conditions regarding the banded Interest Rate regime with this FA account. 

In fact, I think we kicked up such a fuss that FA were forced to clarify the position on their web-site.

So indeed I have been paying attention, but every now and then we all need a little light relief and a sense of humour


----------



## Godfather

Guys, pls correct me if I'm wrong but as I understood you can "plan" a scheduled withdrawal from the FA esaver but not a SO... Correct?


----------



## GeneralZod

Godfather, yes that is correct. You can only plan a scheduled transfer within the next month so you have to log in every month to do it. You _cannot_ create 6 separate scheduled transfers (not SOs) spread over 6 months to get around the restriction on no SOs from the eSavings account.

In case any of what I said above caused confusion I also have access to create SOs (but not from the eSavings account) because I've got a normal demand account with them.


----------



## Godfather

Thank you General Zod!


----------



## Darando

I went to set one of these accounts up online (Im not a FA customer) - Just a question about the initial deposit.... Can this not be done by bank transfer? (form says cash/cheque) I rang them and said it had to be a cheque made out to myself???? (I don't have a cheque book) - person on the phone didnt fill me with confidence and didnt help much.

Also can you put just enter 0 as the standing order amount (i.e I dont to regularly save to the account)


----------



## ClubMan

Darando said:


> I went to set one of these accounts up online (Im not a FA customer) - Just a question about the initial deposit.... Can this not be done by bank transfer?


Don't think so.


> (form says cash/cheque) I rang them and said it had to be a cheque made out to myself???? (I don't have a cheque book)


I made the cheque out to _"FA eSavings for a/c of ClubMan"_. Maybe you can send a draft or just bring cash to a branch?


> Also can you put just enter 0 as the standing order amount (i.e I dont to regularly save to the account)


Yes.


----------



## Darando

Cheers Clubman,

so you can open these accounts in a branch? Thought maybe it could only be done online (maybe taking the "e-savings" part too far!!!!

If so then I might just pop into a branch- much easier.


----------



## ClubMan

Darando said:


> so you can open these accounts in a branch?


Not sure but I would have thought so. Call your local _FA _branch office and ask them.


----------



## Jethro Tull

ClubMan said:


> I made the cheque out to _"FA eSavings for a/c of ClubMan"_. Maybe you can send a draft or just bring cash to a branch?


 
When i rang on wednesday I asked should I make the cheque out to 'First Active plc'. Was told thats correct. yet more conflicting advice from their customer service!


----------



## daves

I was just about to start reading through this whole post for pointers before i opened an account but could anyone summarise?

From what iv read so far
1.  5.22% apr on up to 15,000
2. Can only create an account with a cheque (payable to whom?) if you dont have an account with FA
3. I can transfer money online to and from the account (once opened) from any account.

Am i missing out on anything? how easy have people found it to open an account? A summation would be nice, in the meantime i'll be reading through the thread!!


----------



## GeneralZod

Either variant of that payee will work.


----------



## Guest127

due to apthy on my own part and also the fact that the difference between €14,000 with this account and the fa ecb account works out at around €72 per annum after dirt, I didn't bother opening this account earlier. However yesterday I decided to open one of these accounts and to be fair it took less than 10 mins start to finish.( very nearly opened a monthly saving account at the same time which would have been a mistake as between the transfer of €14,000 and the monthly deductions to the other savings scheme I would have made more than 4 transactions in a quarter thus reducing the interest on the ecb savings by .80% for this quarter and .20% for the whole year as the number of transactions would have exceeded 12)


----------



## ClubMan

daves said:


> 1.  5.22% apr on up to 15,000


Technically I think it's 5.22% on up to €14,999.99!


> 2. Can only create an account with a cheque (payable to whom?) if you dont have an account with FA


See above.


> 3. I can transfer money online to and from the account (once opened) from any account.


To - I think so but haven't done it yet. From - definitely.


> Am i missing out on anything? how easy have people found it to open an account? A summation would be nice, in the meantime i'll be reading through the thread!!


Bar the initial confusion about rates and processes which have now been cleared up it should be as easy as any other account to set up.


----------



## Lossy

daves said:


> 3. I can transfer money online to and from the account (once opened) from any account.



I can transfer online in both directions, to and from BOI! 

Takes about 1-2 working days to travel for each direction.


----------



## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> Technically I think it's 5.22% on up to €14,999.99!


Which means that if you just withdraw interest annually you should lodge c. €14,200 to avoid breaching the €15K (or €14,999.99) limit which would put you on the lower rate. On the other hand you could withdraw interest monthly as it is paid and lodge closer to the €15K limit.


----------



## daves

Cheers for the help folks, dont exactly have 15k to save but at least its a good starting point!


----------



## CKT

Just a quick maths questions, I have received €41.17 interest, which brings my total to €14,956.17.

Do I need to transfer money out now, if so how much? (to keep it below 15k) Or can I leave it for next's month's interest payments? and then transfer out? 
Sorry if stupid question!


----------



## ClubMan

By my reckoning you will earn ((€14,956.17 @ 5.22%) / 365) * 31) = €66.31 in January. €14,956.17 + €66.31 = €15,022.48 so you will be pushed above the €15K limit when the interest is added which will impact the interest earned until you reduce the deposit balance. Might be safest to keep a maximum of about €14,930 on deposit if you are collecting/transferring interest monthly in order to never breach the limit? That means a maximum of €66.19 interest per month (31 day month) which will being you to €14,996.19. On the other hand perhaps one could keep €14,999.99 on deposit and as soon as interest is paid transfer it out? Maybe you will just get the lower rate on the day that the interest is credited but once you transfer out you will revert to the higher rate? Not sure what the _T&Cs _say about this but I presume that interest is calculated daily but credited monthly?


----------



## CKT

Thanks Clubman!


----------



## Crunchie

ClubMan said:


> By my reckoning you will earn ((€14,956.17 @ 5.22%) / 365) * 31) = €66.31 in January.



I presume DIRT will be deducted so more likely the amount earned will be nearer to €53.05


----------



## ClubMan

Yes but the gross interest will probably be added first and then _DIRT _withdrawn in  two separate but chronological transactions.That's the way I've seen it done on most deposit accounts in the past anyway.


----------



## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> Yes but the gross interest will probably be added first and then _DIRT _withdrawn in  two separate but chronological transactions.That's the way I've seen it done on most deposit accounts in the past anyway.


Actually - I just checked my _FA eSavings_ statement and they seem to credit the interest net of _DIRT _in a single transaction.


----------



## boaber

ClubMan said:


> Actually - I just checked my _FA eSavings_ statement and they seem to credit the interest net of _DIRT _in a single transaction.



Same here.  I also got my statement from EBS for their regular saver and they too have only detailed one interest figure


----------



## MysticX

Fun query,
Did anyone who opened their eSavings account within online banking after a few weeks, get a prepaid envelope and instructions to return the following "enclosed forms":
"Prepaid envelope".

Yep thats it, no forms just the letter and brochures.

Doesn't affect me at all since it's been up and running for ages, I just was a little surprised to get this in the post.


----------



## dobbins

ClubMan said:


> By my reckoning you will earn ((€14,956.17 @ 5.22%) / 365) * 31) = €66.31 in January. €14,956.17 + €66.31 = €15,022.48


 
Hi Clubman or anyone else who can answer this - this is something I don't understand about accounts where the interest is not paid annually.

In your calculation, you use the full 5.22% rate to calculate the monthly interest payment. That would mean that the following month, they would get interest on the lump sum and on the interest already paid.

That means that an account where the interest is 5.22% paid monthly pays more interest over the course of a year than an account where the interest is 5.22% paid annually? Is this right? When I compare saving accounts I compare using the interest rates but should I be taking annual / monthly payments into consideration or am I missing something here?


----------



## ClubMan

dobbins said:


> In your calculation, you use the full 5.22% rate to calculate the monthly interest payment. That would mean that the following month, they would get interest on the lump sum and on the interest already paid.


Good point - my calculations are probably wrong so and I should probably be using some other rate when attempting to calculate the daily/monthly interest payments. On the other hand using the approach I mention above I can more or less reconcile the interest payments on my own _FA eSavings_ account where I have not yet withdrawn any interest each month... Hmmmm.... Perhaps somebody else can comment on my approach?


----------



## dobbins

ClubMan said:


> Good point - my calculations are probably wrong so and I should probably be using some other rate when attempting to calculate the daily/monthly interest payments. On the other hand using the approach I mention above I can more or less reconcile the interest payments on my own _FA eSavings_ account where I have not yet withdrawn any interest each month... Hmmmm.... Perhaps somebody else can comment on my approach?


 
maybe interest is only calculated on the balance minus any interest already paid?


----------



## Crunchie

The FA website shows the interest as:

€15,001 - €1,000,000 	4.25% Gross  4.33% AER
€1 - €15,000 	            5.10% Gross  5.22% AER

Maybe they calculate the monthly interest using the Gross figure and over the year this has the effect of bringing it up to the AER figure?


----------



## tonster01

Its only a longshot but could they possibly offer the 5.2% compound interest monthly in the hope that they will push more people over their threshold unknowingly and therefore they would be subject to the lower rate of interest...


----------



## ClubMan

dobbins said:


> maybe interest is only calculated on the balance minus any interest already paid?


Maybe - I'm not sure.



Crunchie said:


> The FA website shows the interest as:
> 
> €15,001 - €1,000,000     4.25% Gross  4.33% AER


As far as I know this is incorrect and some people have reported that just hitting €15K puts you on the lower rate for the lot. 


> Maybe they calculate the monthly interest using the Gross figure and over the year this has the effect of bringing it up to the AER figure?


Another possibility.


----------



## Godfather

Hi clubman, sorry but did you take out the DIRT from your calculations as well in addition to use the gross int. rate?


----------



## Sunny

Crunchie said:


> Maybe they calculate the monthly interest using the Gross figure and over the year this has the effect of bringing it up to the AER figure?


 
I would imagine this is correct. For accounts that pay interest more than once a year, the gross rate should be used as the AER just shows how much interest you will earn in one whole year. You can't use AER to work out one months interest.


----------



## ClubMan

Godfather said:


> Hi clubman, sorry but did you take out the DIRT from your calculations as well in addition to use the gross int. rate?


I did deduct _DIRT_.


----------



## ClubMan

Sunny said:


> I would imagine this is correct. For accounts that pay interest more than once a year, the gross rate should be used as the AER just shows how much interest you will earn in one whole year. You can't use AER to work out one months interest.


I presume you mean the "nominal" rate? Anybody know what the _FA eSavings _5.22% _CAR/AER _nominal rate equivalent is so? Does using the _CAR/AER_ rate make my calculations just slightly or wildly inaccurate?

Update: oops - note to self: _"did you even think of searching ClubMan"_!   The nominal rate for the 5.22% _CAR/AER_ [broken link removed]. Presumably if my calculations were done using this figure they would be (more) accurate?


----------



## Jethro Tull

ClubMan said:


> Anybody know what the _FA eSavings _5.22% _CAR/AER _gross rate equivalent is so? Does using the _CAR/AER_ rate make my calculations just slightly or wildly inaccurate?


 
Does it not quote somewhere that the interrest rate is 5.10% (which equates to an AER of 5.22%)?

This means the monthly interest rate is 5.1%/12 = .0425%

over 12 months (1+.0425)^12-1 = 5.22%

or am I answering something different?

Btw FA cashed my deposit cheque today, how long before they send all the account details etc out in the post?


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Does it not quote somewhere that the interrest rate is 5.10% (which equates to an AER of 5.22%)?


Yes - sorry I subsequently updated my previous post when I found that.


> This means the monthly interest rate is 5.1%/12
> 
> over 12 months (1+(5.1%/12))^12-1 = 5.22%


Thanks.


----------



## Sunny

ClubMan said:


> The nominal rate for the 5.22% _CAR/AER_ [broken link removed]. Presumably if my calculations were done using this figure they would be (more) accurate?


 
I would imagine so.


----------



## ClubMan

From my statement:

15Aug07 Opening balance €14,250
31Aug07 Interest €35.02 Balance €14,285.04
28Sep07 Interest €44.71 Balance €14,329.75
31Oct07 Interest €52.86 Balance €14,382.61

So:

* First interest payment:*

(((€14,250 @ 5.10%) / 365) * 16 days) = €31.86 gross or €25.49 net of _DIRT_. Even if it's actually 15 days it is still way off.

(((€14,250 @ 5.22%) / 365) * 16 days) = €32.61 gross or €26.09 net is also wrong...

* Second interest payment:*

(((€14,285.04 @ 5.10%) / 365) * 28 days) = €55.89 gross or €44.71 net so that looks correct.

* Third interest payment:*

(((€14,329.75 @ 5.10%) / 365) * 33 days) = €66.07 gross or €52.86 net.

Maybe my statement is a bit misleading and the initial balance was actually on deposit for longer than the 16 days?


----------



## Jethro Tull

ClubMan said:


> From my statement:
> 
> Maybe my statement is a bit misleading and the initial balance was actually on deposit for longer than the 16 days?


 
Not sure about this one (its a long thread!) but were people not saying earlier that the interest was being earned from the day the cheque was cashed but the actual account wasn't set up til after this date? 

People on here were saying FA were inefficient, FA were saying it as due to the demand for the account.


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Not sure about this one (its a long thread!) but were people not saying earlier that the interest was being earned from the day the cheque was cashed but the actual account wasn't set up til after this date?


Ah - that's it I guess:

(((€14,250 @ 5.10%) / 365) * 22) = €43.80 gross or €35.04 net so it looks like they cashed the cheque but took another 6 days to actually open the account.


----------



## dobbins

yeah, makes a bit of sense now...

so we can directly compare AER rates on different accounts irrespective of when interest is paid

e.g.
account A has an AER of 5.22% (nominal rate of 5.1%) paid MONTHLY

will have the same interest paid after 12 months as

account B with an AER of 5.22% paid ANNUALY


----------



## ClubMan

Yes - _CAR/AER/EAR _figures are specifically designed to be directly comparable. You will always get a better return on an account with a higher _CAR/AER/EAR_ all things being equal.


----------



## Spinnaker

Hi 

Forgive the question but ...I gave up on thread after 11 pages (eyes got foggy ) ...Is it 4.07% on the whole sum if balance exceeds 15,000. My account certainly has cos I opened with 15000 during last May or June. 

I wonder if I withdraw say a 1000 will I accrue at 5.22% going forward ? 

Thx
Spin


----------



## ClubMan

It's 5.22% on balances up to €15K and 4.33% on the full balance over that. There is some confusion on whether this means the maximum balance to avail of 5.22% is €14,999.99, €15,000 or even up to €15,000.99. _FA _say "up to and including €15K" but I thought that some people reported getting the lower rate on €15K. Probably to play it safe and keep less than €15K on deposit to get the high rate. Check your statement to see what you were getting. If you can't work out the figures post some of them here (e.g. opening balance for the month and end of month interest payment - with dates).


----------



## Spinnaker

Clubman 

Thanks for the clarification, Clubman . You deserve a public service award for your dogged contributions here ...down to earnings on even that last euro between 14,999 and 15001!  

I will follow ur advice and post my statement numbers soon. 

Cheers


----------



## Sim2

Hi
I applied online for First Active's esaver account and received the application forms in the post yesterday.  I don't want to open the account now so can I just ignore the application forms or do I need to notify First Active that I won't be opening the account with them?  Thanks


----------



## ClubMan

Just ignore them.


----------



## MysticX

ClubMan said:
			
		

> You will get the card reader in a few days. Then you will get the initial _PIN _for the card/reader. Did you not read the earlier parts of this thread where all of this is already covered?


 
Mmmm I got the initial PIN and card, but no sign of the reader(been ~week)...

What was the arrival gap for you guys?

Can the reader fit through a letterbox like the Rabo digipass or is it a signed delivery?


----------



## ClubMan

The card reader will fit through a letterbox - it's about the size of a deck of cards.  Everything arrived in the space of a week or two for me. Why not call them and ask what the status is?


----------



## MysticX

> Why not call them and ask what the status is?


Aye, though first I thought I'd see the average time it took other people to get the kit then factor in my luck with An Post..


----------



## Jethro Tull

Hi

I haven't read all this thread so sorry if its been answered before but has the issue of transferring money electronically been addressed? i.e. can I use online banking to transfer money from my PTSB current account to the esaver. the sort code Ive been given is 98 88 16

Thanks

EDIT: sent a €1 transfer this morning, will wait and see!


----------



## WombleWilly

ClubMan said:


> It's 5.22% on balances up to €15K and 4.33% on the full balance over that. There is some confusion on whether this means the maximum balance to avail of 5.22% is €14,999.99, €15,000 or even up to €15,000.99. _FA _say "up to and including €15K" but I thought that some people reported getting the lower rate on €15K. Probably to play it safe and keep less than €15K on deposit to get the high rate. Check your statement to see what you were getting. If you can't work out the figures post some of them here (e.g. opening balance for the month and end of month interest payment - with dates).


 
FYI. The FA Website says "_The interest rate applied to your account will be applied to the whole balance of the account_" and

"_Get a great rate of *5.22% AER variable** 
(4.33% applied to entire account balance if equal to or above €15001). _"

That means if you have 15,001 in the account, you will not get the high rate on any of it.

I've lodged 14,000, and I'm leaving it at that.


----------



## MysticX

Well got my card reader. Nice little device. Thankfully it was protected in bubble wrap as the package looked like it got hit with something blunt and heavy during transit.

Enabled card reader(one nice thing about it is that they provide instructions on how to replace the batteries unlike the Rabo digipass) though haven't had any need to use it just yet...

They did say in the accompanying letter that my online banking will automatically switch to the card reader in 21 days... so I guess needing it will be inevitable.


----------



## ClubMan

MysticX said:


> Enabled card reader(one nice thing about it is that they provide instructions on how to replace the batteries unlike the Rabo digipass)


If your _Rabo _digipass battery runs out then I think you can just get a replacement. Although maybe you can open it up and replace the battery yourself (I guess it probably uses an LR44 or something like that). One the other hand does anybody actually use the _Rabo _device any more given their rates...


----------



## Jethro Tull

Jethro Tull said:


> Hi
> 
> I haven't read all this thread so sorry if its been answered before but has the issue of transferring money electronically been addressed? i.e. can I use online banking to transfer money from my PTSB current account to the esaver. the sort code Ive been given is 98 88 16
> 
> Thanks
> 
> EDIT: sent a €1 transfer this morning, will wait and see!


 
Transfer showing up, only took one working day.


----------



## gribr

Can you use electronic banking to make the initial deposit?
I'm waiting on my new cheque book and AIB dont do bank drafts for less than €50


----------



## jacobean

Hi,

Hope someone can help with my query - I'm in the process of opening one of these accounts - have a problem though - no current (within last 6 months) bank account statement (I have my statements online but these aren't considered good enough) and no cheque book in my name so I don't think I fulfill the criteria for documentation required by them. 

I'll will be getting a statement for my BOSI savings account soon enough - will this do or does it have to be the account where my initial deposit/lump sum comes out of??

Thanks,
Jacobean


----------



## MysticX

> Can you use electronic banking to make the initial deposit?
> I'm waiting on my new cheque book and AIB dont do bank drafts for less than €50


 
Mmmm this depends on how you would open the account. If your not an existing FA customer with online banking then no(as far as I know).
If your an existing FA customer with online banking then if you login to FA online banking and apply for the account there, then wait ~day the eSavings account will appear on your profile with a balance of 0 and will accept EFTs.



> I'll will be getting a statement for my BOSI savings account soon enough - will this do or does it have to be the account where my initial deposit/lump sum comes out of??


Mmmm any bank statement(in theory) should do they're primarily interested in just the name and address been on an original bank statement, the account type shouldn't matter.


----------



## dcGT

MysticX said:


> Mmmm this depends on how you would open the account. If your not an existing FA customer with online banking then no(as far as I know).
> If your an existing FA customer with online banking then if you login to FA online banking and apply for the account there, then wait ~day the eSavings account will appear on your profile with a balance of 0 and will accept EFTs.



I was able to open a first active account with a zero balance. I called them and explained that I didn't have a cheque book or a First Active current account. They said this was fine and I was able to electronically transfer money in when my account was opened.

DC.


----------



## MysticX

dcGT said:
			
		

> I was able to open a first active account with a zero balance. I called them and explained that I didn't have a cheque book or a First Active current account. They said this was fine and I was able to electronically transfer money in when my account was opened.
> 
> DC.


Mmmm looks like their webpage is incorrect....
[broken link removed]


> *Can my initial lodgement be taken from an account which is not a First Active account?*
> 
> No, your initial lodgement can either be taken from a First Active account or you can send us a personal cheque. Once your account is opened it is possible to transfer funds by standing order or electronic transfer into your eSavings account from any account which has the facility to set up standing orders or electronic transfers.


----------



## neonitrix

I sent first active back my application pack on the evening of the 24th Jan including a cheque (crossed) for 10,000 which was cashed today. how long approx does it take for a/c number etc to arrive? 

thanks

neonitrix


----------



## salmoy

Today's _Independent _tells me that Anglo Irish, EBS, First Active, Halifax, and BOI are all paying 7pc on regular saver accounts.  

I know that EBS only guarantee this until 01.04.08 and restrict deposits to €1000 per month. I cannot find similar info on the other quoted banks.  Has anybody any further info/recommendations - preferably for on line easy transfers and access.
Thanks Salmoy


----------



## ClubMan

I don't think that the others give any rate guarantee. Note that _FA _are paying 7.15%.


----------



## salmoy

Thankyou Clubman
Salmoy


----------



## garythegreat

I have some money in my esavings account, but how do i get it back out agan!? I need the moeny and it says my account doesnt have the needed privaliges?


----------



## ClubMan

If you have a current account for day to day banking then ring _FA _and get them to add it as an external payment to your _FA eSavings _account. You can then transfer online. It will take a few days for money to appear in the destination account.


----------



## NavanMan1

dcGT said:


> I was able to open a first active account with a zero balance. I called them and explained that I didn't have a cheque book or a First Active current account. They said this was fine and I was able to electronically transfer money in when my account was opened.
> 
> DC.


 
Just opened a FA Esavings account with a zero balance, took less than three weeks and was painless. 

I found this hard to believe as its the same back office as Ulster, and my experience of opening one with Ulster was a nightmare. 

So just have to wait for the 15K to transfer from AngloIrish 30day notice into FA at end of month.


----------



## oldtimer

Don't transfer 15k into the account - you will quickly fall into the lower interest rate.  Put 14.5k to be safe and watch the interest. By the way Angloirish 30day notice account is going from 4.50% to 4.75%. Over a year you will make around €50 transferring from Anglo to First Active.


----------



## bravo

*Maximum Deposit @ 5.22%*

Hi Guys,
Got my FA account organised. Trying to maximise the interest. By my rough calculations €14,945 on deposit would earn €64 gross per month, which can then be transferred elsewhere, and keep the whole deposit from going to the lower rate.
Does anyone know if the interest is added in gross and then dirt taken off, or is dirt taken before the interest is added. If dirt is taken before interest is added, the capital deposit could rise slightly to allow for this?
Am I correct? as I would like to take everylast cent poossible from the bank in interest.


----------



## ClubMan

The interest appears on the account statement as a net lodgement - i.e. not gross and then _DIRT _deducted. But I don't know what happens behind the scenes. If it was me then I would leave a bit of margin at the cost of a few cents worth of interest. And this is in fact what I do.

Note also that €14,945 @ 5.22% = €780.13 p.a. / 366 days (it's a leap year this year!) = €2.1315 per day x 31 = €66.08 in the longest months of the year not €64 as you mention above.


----------



## Jethro Tull

5.10% should be used in calculations over a single month. This interest is then applied to the account earning interest the next month and so on getting us back to 5.22% AER

=> .425% (gross) over a month. (1.00425)^12 = 1.0522


----------



## ClubMan

Fair point!


----------



## Jethro Tull

I make the figure 14948.18

multiply this by 1.00425 = 15011.71 => 63.53 interest (gross)

Deduct 20% DIRT => 50.82 interest (net)

Add to initial deposit => balance of 14999 and hey presto still getting 5.22% AER

Disclaimer: the above is subject to rounding to 2 decimal places in excel!!!!!


----------



## Jethro Tull

Actually just thinking about it, there is practically no difference in investing 10k in Halifax or FA for a term of 1 yr

Take Halifax's 5.15%. This is 4.12% net (=5.15%*0.8)

Take FA. This is 5.10% payable monthly (=.425% per month)
Deduct DIRT => .0034%
Annualising => (1.0034^12-1) = 4.1572% net

i.e stick 10k into Halifax you get 10412 back at year end after tax

Stick 10k into FA you get 10415.72 back after tax


----------



## ClubMan

Jethro Tull said:


> Actually just thinking about it, there is practically no difference in investing 10k in Halifax or FA for a term of 1 yr
> 
> Take Halifax's 5.15%. This is 4.12% net (=5.15%*0.8)
> 
> Take FA. This is 5.10% payable monthly (=.425% per month)
> Deduct DIRT => .0034%
> Annualising => (1.0034^12-1) = 4.1572% net
> 
> i.e stick 10k into Halifax you get 10412 back at year end after tax
> 
> Stick 10k into FA you get 10415.72 back after tax


How so - if _FA _is paying 5.22% gross _CAR _and Halifax is paying 5.15% gross _CAR _then surely the returns from the former *must *be higher than from the latter!?


----------



## Jethro Tull

It is higher but its a gross CAR. If you use net figures and apply the interest monthly its only marginally better. Of course this uses 10k as an example, the advantage of FA is that they pay the 5.22% up to under 15k.


----------



## bfield

Jethro Tull said:


> => .425% (gross) over a month. (1.00425)^*12* = 1.0522


 


Jethro Tull said:


> Take FA. This is 5.10% payable monthly (=.425% per month)
> Deduct DIRT => .0034%
> Annualising => (1.0034^*12-1*) = 4.1572% net


 
Just a query on your calculations above. Why do you use 12mths in the first calculation and 11mths (12-1) in the 2nd? I've no doubt that you're correct, but just trying to understand it myself.


----------



## Jethro Tull

my syntax is bad there, apologises. 

1.0034^12 = 1.041572

to get the actual interest rate rather than the compounding factor you subtract 1 to get .041572 = 4.1572%

originally should have read (1.0034^12)-1, the bracket was in the wrong place. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## bfield

ah yes, i should have spotted that myself.

thanks for clarifying it anyway.


----------



## boscobill

I am amused that you are all ecstatic about first active esaver account. I opened one of these accounts with a monthly direct debit from a cuurent account with ptsb. When I asked about transferring money out of the account I was told I could only tyranfer it to a First Active current account. Why should this be?


----------



## ClubMan

I have transferred to non _FA _accounts no problem once I called _FA _to add the relevant accounts to my _eSavings _account. Can't say that I wasn't happy with this but ecstasy would be pushing it.


----------



## Jethro Tull

I transferred from my PTSB CC absolutely no problem. Only took about 24hrs to show up in my FA account too.


----------



## Carmel

*Online banking with First Active E-savings and BOI current account*

Hi
Just wanted to give a short account of setting up a First Active Savings Account and using it with a BOI current account. 

Sent off cheque and account setup info on 14th January.
Took about two weeks to get confirmation of account being set up and details for on-line banking, but cheque was lodged dated 22nd January.

To set up my BOI current account as a payee I had to ring First Active customer support and give them the details. It appeared on-line immediately after the phone call.

To set up my first active account as a beneficiary from BOI I had to add a new beneficiary on-line and then wait from an activation code from BOI in the post. 

I've done on-line transfers from both accounts into the other now and they both worked. 

The whole process takes a bit of time, but so far so good.

C


----------



## mydosh

Carmel - Thanks for that very good summary on your experience. Much appreciated.


----------



## tinkerbell

I opened my e savings account no problems at all about three months go.  But my big problem is getting money into it   Despite having held a FA savings account for over ten years, I have major problems for the last two months trying to allow that account transfer into my e savings account with the result, my e savings has no money in it yet the other does but can't transfer.   I phoned several times to be told they would sort it out, have filled in forms, produced passport at local branch, etc. and yet no luck.  Afraid I can't be too excited about FA online banking


----------



## bacchus

I can not understand why one customer has all the problems (tinkerbell) while others (like me) have none.
Do they design glitches in the SW to annoy 0.001% of their customers?

I am regularly transferring money in my web of accounts to follow rates & spread risks (includes FA regular and esavings a/c)  and yet have to have a problem with transfer in & out of any accounts.

So FA online banking gets the thumb up for me..

BTW, to open FA accounts, i followed the recommended procedure that somebody posted here... basically, if you are not an existing customer and you are after their esaving a/c, open a regular saver first, and then the esaving once you are a customer. Works wonder...


----------



## camlin90

> Actually just thinking about it, there is practically no difference in investing 10k in Halifax or FA for a term of 1 yr
> 
> Take Halifax's 5.15%. This is 4.12% net (=5.15%*0.8)
> 
> Take FA. This is 5.10% payable monthly (=.425% per month)
> Deduct DIRT => .0034%
> Annualising => (1.0034^12-1) = 4.1572% net
> 
> i.e stick 10k into Halifax you get 10412 back at year end after tax
> 
> Stick 10k into FA you get 10415.72 back after tax


 
Coming up with different figures here, for a 10K deposit over one year:
Halifax Interest = 409.08 net

This allows for Halifax interest being credited quarterly, so the balance will go above €10K in the first quarter and the interest payment will earn interest at 4% subsequently


----------



## Jethro Tull

John J said:


> Coming up with different figures here, for a 10K deposit over one year:
> Halifax Interest = 409.08 net
> 
> This allows for Halifax interest being credited quarterly, so the balance will go above €10K in the first quarter and the interest payment will earn interest at 4% subsequently


 
Whoops, didn't actually know it was credited quarterly!


----------



## jigsaw

i have a halifax current account and a first active esaver account. i can transfer money without hassle from one to the other

this morning at 8am i made a payment from my esaver account to my halifax current account. i checked my halifax account at 4 o clock and the money was there, now thats fast !!


----------



## MysticX

Yorky said:
			
		

> Apologies if this has been addressed before but am I correct in saying that as long as I withdraw the interest on the last day each month to bring the balance back down to €15k, the 5.22% AER applies?
> 
> Is it possible to have the interest paid to an account elsewhere or posted in draft form to avoid going over the threshold?


Mmmm well the general thinking I believe is, that to be safe you withdraw just enough at the end of the month so that your savings+estimated interest don't exceed 15K(i.e. get ready for the interest to arrive). Though in theory it's calculated daily so even if you wait till after the interest is paid, the worst case would be that your stuck on the lower rate for as long as it takes you to move the excess above 15K to a different account.

As regards auto paying the interest elsewhere, there is no such facility available(to my knowledge). I do believe you can manually setup EFTs for a specified amount on specific dates though this would be klunky and would have to be done on a month by month basis.


----------



## ClubMan

No. The interest only becomes part of the balance when it is paid! Calculating interest daily and paying it monthly means that the balance only increases monthly.


----------



## vipera1

If the account balance exceeds € 15,000 anytime, is the interest rate reduced for the following month, or year or for always ?.


----------



## ClubMan

Just for as long as the balance exceeds €15K (or €15,001 or whatever) as far as I know.


----------



## oldtimer

Sunday Independent to-day 2nd March in Business section page 4 under Savings -  Best - ''First Active *5.1* per cent (down from 5.22 per cent).''  Is this correct? Anybody else hear this? First Active website still showing 5.22%.


----------



## MugsGame

No change. [broken link removed].


----------



## oldtimer

Thanks for that. The article is therefore misleading stating ''down from 5.22  per cent.''


----------



## ClubMan

oldtimer said:


> Thanks for that. The article is therefore misleading stating ''down from 5.22  per cent.''


Yes - saw that bit in the paper alright. The _Indo _simply got it wrong.


----------



## FredBloggs

Just spent an interesting half hour reading this thread.  Am I right in the following observations:
1.  I should invest no more than €14.5K
2.  I should open a regular savings account first?

Is there anything else which I should have taken note of?


----------



## ClubMan

I calculate that you can lodge c. €14,937 and then withdraw the monthly interest and never breach the €15K limit. My calculations are as follows:

Nominal annual rate 5.1%
Daily interest equivalent 5.22% / 365 = 0.013699% (366 days in 2008 but let's ignore the leap day)
31 days in the longest month means 31 x 0.013699% = 0.424669% interest in a month

So if €15K = 100.424669% then 100% =~ €14,937.

Maybe €14,900 just to be safe?


----------



## trebor

Sorry for this off-topic rant but is setting up an account with FA appearing to be way more hassle than it's worth for anyone else?? Almost 3 weeks since I sent my application form for the e-savings account, I finally get confirmation of the whereabouts of my lodgement cheque but still no sign of my original documents I sent with the application. Also, having previously set up a regular savers account with FA, I find their login pages to be so much more awkward to use than that of any other online service...so much so that I can't access my online account now because I seem to be entering details wrong, which never happens me?? Fair enough I may have just taken on board more usernames and passwords than my memoery can take but I blame FA for this series of annoying events. That extra fraction of a % just really doesn't seem worth it anymore. Also, the receptionist in my local branch is possibly the most ignorant person I've ever met. Rant over.....


----------



## ClubMan

I didn't experience the problems that you seem to be experiencing.


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## trebor

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not experience a period of roughly the same time before you received confirmation of your account being set up, and consider withdrawing your application during this period as a result of this. Also, did the ambiguous responses from FA staff regarding the change of interest rate/balance threshold not create an air of doubt as to how trustworthy FA were. My only other problem was the login page, which I really do find more awkward than that of any other online service...I don't know why but it just is. As regards the receptionist, I wouldn't publicly name the branch but you know who you are . I suppose I've got my end result in that the accounts are set up and earning a decent rate of interest...if only I could access them online.........


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## bfield

trebor, like clubman i didnt experience any of the issues you mentioned. i first set up a regular savings a/c (which required a visit to branch) and then set up my esavings a/c online. the documents arrived within a few days and i popped the cheque in the post. painless enough really.

regarding the issues with the online service, are you referring to the amount of info required to login ie. customer number, pin number & password? I suppose it is quite a bit of info to memorise but again, i dont find any difficulty with it and if anything, it adds some extra security to the online service.


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## bfield

I opened my esavings a/c with a lodgement of €670. My online a/c shows a balance of €670 on Feb 8th and then interest of €1.35 paid on Feb 29th? Is this the correct amount of interest?

Based on clubmans calculations above, and a daily rate of 0.013699%, & having the money in the a/c for 22 days in february, i reckon I should have got:
€670 x 0.013699% x 22days = €2.019 or €1.62 after DIRT. So i was underpaid. I know it's only a few cent but can somebody confirm that my calculations are correct?


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## sapmanie

> Thanks for that. The article is therefore misleading stating ''down from 5.22 per cent.''


Maybe they meant to say ''down from *5.5* per cent.'' which is what is was when this account was launched.


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## GeneralZod

sapmanie said:


> Maybe they meant to say ''down from *5.5* per cent.'' which is what is was when this account was launched.



Huh? The very first post in this thread talks about the new eSavings account launching with an AER of 5.22%.  It was never 5.5%.


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## sapmanie

> Huh? The very first post in this thread talks about the new eSavings account launching with an AER of 5.22%. It was never 5.5%.


 
That's strange - 5.5% has been applied to my a/c since opened, until February this year where it went down to 5.1%

Perhaps I'll just keep quiet about that so! ;-)


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## TSThomas

Can't say I'd any problems setting up an eSavings either (Applied near the end of February this year) - applied online, received / returned the application pack about a week after, week after that I received everything back (Original documents, account number, etc)... Just waiting on the PIN code to arrive now.


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## drwho

Hi - several questions on this that I hope people might be able to address:

1) I see a number of people are using this in conjunction with a FA Regular Savers account - how are you siphoning money from the eSaver account into the Regular account if you can't set up a Standing Order in an eSaver account? Or is the money coming from a third account?

2) Just to be completely clear - can cash be withdrawn from this account through an ATM or must it go to a high-street bank account account first?

3) Are transfers with other banks easily facilitated? I know in theory they're meant to be but practice can be different (I'd want to be able to transfer money over from a Bank of Ireland current account).

4) I know a number of institutions are guaranteed protection by the governments, etc. in case of collapse. I can't see anything clear on First Active, only speculation (e.g. from here) Does anyone have anything more concrete?

5) With most people trying to keep under the 15k limit, are people spreading remainders over multiple accounts online? Probably a bit too broad of a question, but I was thinking of diversify and putting about 14.6k here and the remainder in Northern Rock, which has Bank of England protection. Is this a reasonably common position to take?


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## MysticX

drwho said:
			
		

> 1) I see a number of people are using this in conjunction with a FA Regular Savers account - how are you siphoning money from the eSaver account into the Regular account if you can't set up a Standing Order in an eSaver account? Or is the money coming from a third account?


Can't say what others are doing but I consider the eSavings complimentary to the Regular Savings. The eSavings provides a means in which to transfer funds out of the Regular Savings online as opposed to ATM or cheque(i.e. from Regular Savings -> eSavings -> External account. Also it doesn't hurt that it offers one of the best rates for on demand deposit accounts. Your correct in that the eSavings doesn't facilitate standing orders. I imagine most if not all of us having SOs from a third account 


			
				drwho said:
			
		

> 2) Just to be completely clear - can cash be withdrawn from this account through an ATM or must it go to a high-street bank account account first?


Regarding the eSavings.... mmm you can definetly do this online(call that seems to take < 5 minutes to add an external account) and then you can select this account for transfers anytime you login.
For the Regular Savings your restricted to the ATM or a bank cheque unless you transfer it(probably online for convenience) to another FA account that is either a FA account that allows ATM access or a FA account(like the eSavings) that can transfer it to an external account that allows ATM access(like your current account that you may have with bank X).


			
				drwho said:
			
		

> 3) Are transfers with other banks easily facilitated? I know in theory they're meant to be but practice can be different (I'd want to be able to transfer money over from a Bank of Ireland current account).


Yes speaking from a purely online perspective it works very well. To my knowledge transfers to and from FA only take 3 working days max. If in doubt simply do a test transfer of 1 euro.


			
				drwho said:
			
		

> 4) I know a number of institutions are guaranteed protection by the governments, etc. in case of collapse. I can't see anything clear on First Active, only speculation (e.g. from here) Does anyone have anything more concrete?


Unfortunately I don't have anything more solid. Aren't FA owned / part of the Royal Bank Of Scotland Group and thus would use the British deposit protection scheme?(which is better than the Irish one)


			
				drwho said:
			
		

> 5) With most people trying to keep under the 15k limit, are people spreading remainders over multiple accounts online? Probably a bit too broad of a question, but I was thinking of diversify and putting about 14.6k here and the remainder in Northern Rock, which has Bank of England protection. Is this a reasonably common position to take?


Yes diversity is generally encouraged. The deposit protection scheme only covers you for a certain amount per bank(not account as far as I know) so this would help maximise your total deposit protection. A good number of people on AAM probably have contact with half a dozen banks at the very least so this is hardly a rare practise. Apart from the protection it sets you up nicely to shift funds to whatever bank offers the best rates should rates start fluctuating. Last but not least it gives you the opportunity to take advantage of banded rates... e.g. FA offer 5.22% for the theoratically first 15K so max this out at your discretion... next port of call would be Halifax Flexisaver for the next 10K and so on...


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## gribr

posted off my application ages ago in their prepaid envelope. Never heard anything back. Rang them and they said they never received it. Thank god i only included a postal order for €1 in there but a bit concerned as to where the envelope containing a lot of my personal details ended up.


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## el diablo

gribr said:


> posted off my application ages ago in their prepaid envelope. Never heard anything back. Rang them and they said they never received it. Thank god i only included a postal order for €1 in there but a bit concerned as to where the envelope containing a lot of my personal details ended up.



well that's a bit worrying.  have you heard anything since?  I registered a few months ago and it took a while to get set up with activation number etc but eventually it was sorted out.


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## trebor

Can anyone confirm if the monthly interest payments on this account are net of DIRT?


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## agapanthus

Yes


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## Pope John 11

I'm thinking of setting up an e-saving account with FA. 

I have been reading this thread with interest.

However is it possible that a member of AAM with all the knowledge over the past year with FA, could summarise the do's & don'ts & appropiate steps to setting up an account, relating to online banking, money transfers,charges etc.

I understand that a regular savings account has to be opened first.

Would appreciate an "E-savings with FA for Dummies" extract notes before opening an account.

Cheers for the help


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## ClubMan

Open an account.
Always keep the balance under €15K.

Er, that's it as far as I can see.


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## Sarn

Pope John 11 said:


> I understand that a regular savings account has to be opened first.



This is not necessary. Information on how to open an account is on the FA website. Read through this thread and you'll get any extra information you need.


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## Fideroiste

Hi guys,
I have gone of the €15,000 limit does this mean that I will be earning the lower rate of interest from now on? I rang FA and the customer service guy said that I would only be getting the lower rate of interest for the period that I went over the limit, is this true?

Thanks in advance,
Fi.


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## trebor

Surely the FA customer care guy knows better than any of us. I'd assume you'll go back to the higher rate as soon as you bring your balance below €15k.


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## GeneralZod

Fideroiste said:


> Hi guys,
> Is this true?



Yes



trebor said:


> Surely the FA customer care guy knows better than any of us.



Not a safe assumption to make.


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## ClubMan

Fideroiste said:


> the customer service guy said that I would only be getting the lower rate of interest for the period that I went over the limit, is this true?


Yes as far as I know. But read the _T&Cs _to confirm this.


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## memphis06

hi

it says in the T&C (68.5) that you can transfer from any bank acc in the ROI and it has to be a standing order? does it have to be standing ordered? can i just transfer to eSavings from my account (AIB) as i want? 

"
68.5 Lodgments can be made by transfer from any First Active account in one or more of
the Account holder’s name(s) or by regular Standing Order from any bank account in​the Republic of Ireland. Lodgments cannot be made by any other method.
"


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## DELLBOY 08

memphis06 said:


> can i just transfer to eSavings from my account (AIB) as i want?"



Yes


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## memphis06

DELLBOY 08 said:


> Yes


 
thanks


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## treasure

Thought the rate on the online savings account was 5.5% (variable) for amounts of 15,000k or more?  That's what I was told by staff yesterday.


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## DELLBOY 08

treasure said:


> Thought the rate on the online savings account was 5.5% (variable) for amounts of 15,000k or more?  That's what I was told by staff yesterday.



First Active have an *E-Savings* account & an *E-Savings plus* account.

The rate on the *E-Savings Plus* account is 5.5% but has additional T&C's to the standard E-Savings account which you should make yourself aware of. 

[broken link removed]


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## rameire

e-saver is currently 3.45%


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## K-Man

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but FA seem to have changed the whole structure of this account in the past couple of months.

When I got the 'e-Savings' account I was due to earn >5% interest, as long as the balance DID NOT exceed €15k. It now seems that this €15k stipulation is gone and the rate has dropped to 3.45%.

I now notice that there is a NEW 'e-Savings Plus' account which requires you to have AT LEAST €15k in the account to qualify for the 5.5% interest rate. 

So therefore, it seems that I now need to change from my 'e-Savings' account to the new 'e-Savings Plus' account, in order to benefit from the >5% interest rate. Oh, of course and now instead of making sure my balance does not exceed €15k, I now need to ensure that it DOES exceed €15k.

They seem to be making it very complicated to maintain your deposits on the best rate !!!

Oh, and just to confuse matters further, there is also another type of FA account which gives 5.4% interest for regular savings. You can only put in up to €1000 per month into this one though.

Anyone else in this same situation ?


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## cork

Yes, 2 types of e-savings accounts.

One gives 5.5% and the other 3.5%

Why?


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## DrMoriarty

DELLBOY 08 said:


> First Active have an *E-Savings* account & an *E-Savings plus* account.
> 
> The rate on the *E-Savings Plus* account is 5.5% but has additional T&C's to the standard E-Savings account which you should make yourself aware of.
> 
> [broken link removed]


Look up.


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