# Engineered Doors -Primed



## BMD (27 Jun 2011)

Hi,

Does anyone have any suggestions on a good suppliers of engineered doors (primed) and what price I should be paying for these. I am getting the door leaf only (no ironmongery, frames etc.).

I want a good quality heavy door (45mm).

Thanks

BMD


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## onq (27 Jun 2011)

Why does it need to be "engineered".

Has it got a special purpose?
Will it serve as a fire door?
Is it because its so big?
Is it for security?
Is it for sound?

[broken link removed]

            All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                             relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                     as   a                        defence          or                        support     -                in                   and         of                              itself       -                                       should                                        legal                                     action                         be                                        taken.
            Competent legal and building professionals should be asked         to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                            Real              Life              with                      rights         to                             inspect                 and                            issue                                     reports                 on                        the                                                       matters                at                                      hand.


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## BMD (27 Jun 2011)

Want something in my price range and I want something that wont warp

Has it got a special purpose? No
Will it serve as a fire door? Yes
Is it because its so big? No
Is it for security? No
Is it for sound? No


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## onq (27 Jun 2011)

If its a fire door then call it a fire door - it must be fitted with the fire door set and ironmongery that matches its fire safety certificate.
It is not good practice for a layperson to state that he's "getting the door leaf only" - it is a false economy to revise the specification unless you are competent to do so.
A fire door may seem only to be a piece of timber that plugs a hole, but the correct  installation and effective sealing of the hole depends on a lot of  things which work together to give the desired result.

- the density, integrity and fire resistance of the door itself 
- the sealing and correct fitting of the lining and architrave
- the sizing and density of the frame into which it sits
- the sizing and effectiveness and completeness of any intumescent strips
- the effectiveness and completeness of the smoke seals
- the bedding of the ironmongery into intumescent paste or strips
- the quality of the ironmongery - hinges, self-closing device and handles
- the dimensional accuracy of the door and frame (the penny test)
- the plumbness and squareness into which the door will sit
- the integrity and fire reisitance of the wall into which it is placed
- the lack of a lock /presence of a tumbler operated mechanism from the inside.
- the presence or otherwise of alarm-deactivated  electromagnetic door-holder-openers (especially if this door is in a  corridor)

Don't skimp on a fire door or attendant items is the best advice I could offer.


 If the gap between the frame and the door is too great, neither smoke seal nor intumescent strip may work.
 If the frame and lining are not properly sealed to the wall, the door will be less effective.
 Unless there is a compliant security mechanism fitted [including press  bars and tumbler locks] the door may help the building become a death  trap.
 Only accept fire doors which have fire certs offered with them together  with a specification for the fire door sets (ironmongery, fixing, seals,  frames, grounds etc).
 Make sure these are correctly fitted by a competent person and inspected  and certified after fitting by a competent building professional whose  experience and qualification are suitable to that task.
  All that having been said, fire doors are usually dimensionally stable within the standard ranges.
A fire door must be dimensionally stable in a fire emergency situation and so the build quality is higher.

One cannot obtain a fire rating for a non-standard  door simply by interpolation of its composition.
A Fire Safety Cert may not be in place for the specific size of door and/or the timber material you require.

Your door may be a once off door design and you may be required to obtain an independent certificate for your once off door.
It must be tested  individually, together with its ironmongery and door set and your budget and programme are secondary to this.
I have seen one or two contractors try to justify substandard items because of budgetary or time constraints - it never impresses.

The last time I oversaw a Fire Door Test we had to send the door away for  testing and a Report to TRADA Chiltern.
We discovered that fast growing hardwoods have less density that European slow growing hardwoods and therefore less intrinsic fire resistance.
We had to revise the design and specification of the door to make it compliant, but if we hadn't tested it we wouldn't have known we had to do this.

I strongly suggest that you contact a competent experienced architect (some just do fire safety certificate applications) or reputable, qualified Fire Safety  Consultant with experience in this area (some just do fire engineering solutions) for more advice on whether or not there may be a necessity for such a test, and how to  go about it.

If you are dealing with a manufacturer who starts contradicting the advice I have offered, I would strongly advise taking retaining and then taking the advice of a competent building professional with experience in this area, as opposed to the guy who may be only trying to sell you a piece of timber.

[broken link removed]

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be                              relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                       as   a                         defence          or                         support     -                in                   and         of                               itself       -                                        should                                        legal                                      action                         be                                         taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked          to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                              Real               Life              with                      rights          to                             inspect                 and                             issue                                     reports                  on                        the                                                        matters                at                                       hand.


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## BMD (28 Jun 2011)

All I was looking for is a recommendation on the supply of engineered doors

.... as I have said before I have employed a very competent qualified architect

I'm looking for doors for a house...its not that complicated


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## BMD (28 Jun 2011)

On the fire door issue...all your advice is very much appreciated and I have all these areas covered...

that aside I am still only looking for the door leaf and one which has 30 minutes fire resistance

any advice on good suppliers would be appreciated


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## onq (28 Jun 2011)

BMD,

I can only offer words of advice, but as I said, looking for fire doors in isolation is not for laypeople.
If you have appointed an architect, use him to assess and recommend a source for these specialist items, their ironmongery and doorsets.

After all, he'll be the one certifying the building.


[broken link removed]

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot  be                              relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                          as   a                         defence          or                          support     -                in                   and         of                                itself       -                                         should                                        legal                                       action                         be                                          taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked           to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                 Real               Life              with                      rights           to                             inspect                 and                              issue                                     reports                   on                        the                                                         matters                at                                        hand.


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## seantheman (28 Jun 2011)

BMD said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on a good suppliers of engineered doors (primed) and what price I should be paying for these. I am getting the door leaf only (no ironmongery, frames etc.).
> 
> ...


Have a look here [broken link removed]
Not sure if these [broken link removed] are engineered or solid.


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## BICIP (30 Jun 2011)

Can't remember the manufacturer but they supply clondalkin providers with engineered doors, excellent quality


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

I finally decided to get my doors from *Doors Ireland/ Dublin Door and Timber Company*....probably turned out to be my biggest regret with the build...the standard of the doors was shocking...a few of them were good (including the ones that I looked at in the store) but the majority were warped, not plumb, panels sitting proud of each other etc.

On top of all that their customer service was atrocious...

Just a word of warning for anyone starting out on this road...I wish I had been warned


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## onq (23 Sep 2011)

[





BMD said:


> ]
> "I wish I had been warned"



Are you saying the advice AAM  offered was not adequate to the task?

We need to know what to do to improve on the level of advice that was offered.


ONQ.


[broken link removed]

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot   be                              relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                             as   a                         defence          or                           support     -                in                   and         of                                 itself       -                                          should                                        legal                                        action                         be                                           taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked            to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                    Real               Life              with                      rights            to                             inspect                 and                               issue                                      reports                   on                        the                                                          matters                at                                         hand.


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

The only advice I didn't get was to stay away from this particular company...I'm only warning people out there...


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

I didn't say the advice from AAM wasn't adequate...AAM isn't the only source of advice in the world...I'm just saying that I would have liked to get this advice but I'm not complaining that I didn't get it

I just want to warn fellow users.


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

I have no advice on improving AAM... in general it is an excellent service...


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## onq (23 Sep 2011)

I am concerned that someone using an experienced architect may have been led to purchase substandard doors.

Was he involved in the build and did he advise on the doors is what I'm asking.
If he wasn't involved then you weren't using an experienced architect.

Many people use an architect at planning stage and then decouple for the build, asking him to return to perform a visual inspection on cert at the end.

This can result in a poor quality to the built work, because with no professional inspection, its up to the builder and the client to set the standard.

So either he researched suppliers and vetted their products or not - or you did all of that. I'm asking what occured.

ONQ.


[broken link removed]

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot    be                              relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                                as   a                         defence          or                            support     -                in                   and          of                                 itself       -                                           should                                        legal                                         action                         be                                            taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked             to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                       Real               Life              with                       rights            to                             inspect                  and                               issue                                       reports                   on                        the                                                           matters                at                                          hand.


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## onq (23 Sep 2011)

BMD said:


> partly because when I asked the question and you had the post blocked because you thought it was a repeat of a previous question (which it wasn't)



I have no power to have posts "blocked".

The site has a policy against duplicate posts.
The site also has a policy requiring thread titles to be descriptive.

If a post gets deleted on AAM it has to be referred to the moderators or site owner first.
I have no power to delete other people's posts and the moderators are quick to deal with posters who refer posts inappropriately.

If your post was deleted its because the moderators - who may not have been referred by someone posting in the thread - deem it unsuitable, not me.


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

I'm only warning people who are researching suppliers in future....


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## onq (23 Sep 2011)

The point to this line of questioning is that if your architect had advised you to use these doors then its possible he could be held liable in the matter.
Architects, being professionals, are supposed to act to a higher standard of care than non-professionals who are not architects.

That is why I always advise that people use building professionals on building projects in the first place.
Its why I try to determine where they have used an architect if defects are discovered.

Perhaps this advice will be useful to you or others reading AAM.


ONQ.


[broken link removed]

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot     be                              relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                                   as   a                         defence          or                             support     -                in                   and           of                                 itself       -                                            should                                         legal                                         action                          be                                            taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked              to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                          Real               Life              with                        rights            to                             inspect                   and                               issue                                        reports                   on                        the                                                            matters                 at                                          hand.


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## BMD (23 Sep 2011)

Thats great..thanks for the advice.

I just wanted to warn people about this supplier for future reference


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