# New solar PV and battery grant launched today



## Zenith63 (31 Jul 2018)

The Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment launched a new scheme to support consumer electricity micro-generation (solar PV) and storage (battery) today!

Administered by the SEAI, it allows for support of up to €3800 to install a solar PV and battery storage system in homes built before 2011.

Basically €700 per kW of panels up to 4kW, but if you go over 2kW you must install a battery storage solution (€1000 allowed toward this) to get the full grant. So a 4kW PV system with battery storage would get the full grant of €3800.

More info: https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news...ustomers-and-self-consumption--and-annou.aspx

[broken link removed]


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## Susie2017 (31 Jul 2018)

Ok can you explain how large this battery is and where it would be situated. How would the power stored in it be used - eg could it feed into the meter and so cut electricity cost further. Would it be worth getting in an Irish climate ? If the grant is 3800 then the installation cost must be huge ?


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## Zenith63 (31 Jul 2018)

Yes the idea is that the solar panels would charge the battery during the day, when you’re often not home and not using much electricity but the sun is at it’s max, then you use the power stored in the battery in the evening/night. In theory you should end up using much more of the solar power you generate.

Size wise the likes of the Tesla PowerWall is similar size to maybe a thick 50” TV, you’d often mount it flat to the wall outside.

Cost wise, I’m afraid I’m not sure sorry, my guess is €10k for the battery. Hard to say if it would pay off. If you factor the ‘saving the environment’ value into your calculations that will certainly help .


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## Laughahalla (1 Aug 2018)

Most people (if they decide on a battery) will probably go for a 4.8kw battery. Can be got cheaper but a decent battery this size will cost about 2.5k to 3k installed(includes VAT)  minus 1k from the grant.

For a 4kw solar PV system with a 4.8kwh battery will cost approx 7k after grant of 3.8k is factored in. You will also be able to claim back some of the VAT on this.

Battery can be stored in your attic or utility - You'd need to discuss that with your installer. (Must be SEAI approved for solar PV)


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## Laughahalla (5 Aug 2018)

Correction to above . You will not get any VAT back if you avail of the PV grant.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/...nd-landlords/value-of-the-hri-tax-credit.aspx


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## cremeegg (5 Aug 2018)

Laughahalla said:


> Most people will probably go for a 4.8kw battery. Can be got cheaper but a decent battery this size will cost about 2.5k to 3k installed minus 1k from the grant.
> 
> For a 4kw solar PV system with a 4.8kwh battery will cost approx 7k after grant of 3.8k is factored in.



Excellent post laughahalla. So a 4kW PV system with battery costs approx €9k after the grant.

At 16 cent a kW Hr that requires 11,842 hours of operation at 100% efficiency, to break even. 

Any idea what the average achieved efficiency might be.


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## Zenith63 (6 Aug 2018)

I've been wondering about the average efficiency as well.  Out of interest, below is the average power usage per hour of the day of our home for July.  This is with two electric cars, quite a bit of home working, gas for cooking rings, space heating and water heating.

Taking a complete stab in the dark, I'd guess a 4kW panel system would cover our usage from 9am to maybe 4pm (so 6kWh out of the total 16kWh used).  A 4.8kWh battery would be too small to cover the remaining 10kWh, but with it we'd end up with 67.5% self-generated power.  At 17c per kWh we'd be saving about €716 per year on electricity, for a payback in 9.7 years based on the €7k figure mentioned above.

If we went with a Tesla Powerwall (which stores 13.5kWh) the cost for the system (based on figures above, which look very cheap to me tbh) would be somewhere around €11k and we could potentially hit 100% utilisation, which would mean a payback of 10.5 years.

Loads of assumptions in here for sure, but just an interesting exercise.  It also doesn't factor in the value of being better for the environment...

One concern with these payback figures of 10ish years is that I'd imagine the lifetime of these battery systems is around 10 years...


```
HOUR     kWh
00:00    0.35
01:00    0.22
02:00    0.31
03:00    0.24
04:00    0.19
05:00    0.20
06:00    0.30
07:00    0.28
08:00    0.43
09:00    0.49
10:00    0.53
11:00    0.65
12:00    0.57
13:00    0.85
14:00    1.17
15:00    0.96
16:00    0.98
17:00    1.22
18:00    1.74
19:00    1.38
20:00    0.96
21:00    0.94
22:00    0.93
23:00    0.87
```


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## fidelcastro (6 Aug 2018)

If householders could sell their excess PV electricity for a reasonable kWh price REFIT level this would do away with the need for a battery
 Unfortunately ESB doesn't allow this, hence driving up the costs with a battery.
Also does anybody wonder about the green credentials of using precious metals eg Lithium, for the type of battery required.

Once again the government is a bit backward compared to international best practice to make this scheme attractive for householders


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## DeeKie (6 Aug 2018)

Doesn’t seem worth it. That’s a pity.


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## Zenith63 (6 Aug 2018)

fidelcastro said:


> If householders could sell their excess PV electricity for a reasonable kWh price REFIT level this would do away with the need for a battery
> Unfortunately ESB doesn't allow this, hence driving up the costs with a battery.


To be fair, I don't think this is an accident.  Large numbers of un-managed home solar generators pose real challenges for the grid that structuring the grant this way and trying to force people to also install a battery somewhat mitigates (interesting article here if interested - http://theconversation.com/why-rooftop-solar-is-disruptive-to-utilities-and-the-grid-39032).



fidelcastro said:


> Once again the government is a bit backward compared to international best practice to make this scheme attractive for householders


Again I don't think this is an accident or backward.  A recent DCCAE whitepaper (https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Energy White Paper - Dec 2015.pdf) determined that spending money on micro-scale home solar is, by a fairly significant margin, the most expensive way of the government reducing carbon emissions and bringing the country to a greener place.  The same amount of money spent on large-scale centralised solar and wind generation would yield much better environmental results while also being much more manageable and predictable for the grid.

So I think best practice would actually be not to bother with these home generation grants, or make them only attractive to people who REALLY want to do self generation (which is what they've ended up with here I think), and pump that money into supporting PPPs to rapidly build solar farms, wind farms and grid-scale storage.  We haven't been to great at this in the past, but it does look like a load of solar farms are about to kick off finally!


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## cremeegg (6 Aug 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> I've been wondering about the average efficiency as well.



Goggle thinks the typical efficiency is about 20%. Which would push the payback out to more like 50 years


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## Zenith63 (7 Aug 2018)

cremeegg said:


> Goggle thinks the typical efficiency is about 20%. Which would push the payback out to more like 50 years


That’s referring to the efficiency of the panels, showing how much of the energy hitting the panel it will convert to electricity. A “4kW system” already accounts for this though and would create 4kW of electricity, it would just be smaller (area wise) if the efficiency was better than 20%.  This efficiency figure doesn't really mean much if you're looking to put a few panels on a large roof, but it would if you wanted to put the highest generating panel you could on top of a car, or a Mars rover etc.


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## cremeegg (7 Aug 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> A “4kW system” already accounts for this though and would create 4kW of electricity, it would just be smaller (area wise) if the efficiency was better than 20%.



Well sort of.

_The performance of PV modules and arrays are generally rated according to their maximum DC power output (watts) under Standard Test Conditions (STC). Standard Test Conditions are defined by a module (cell) operating temperature of 25o C (77o F), and incident solar irradiance level of 1000 W/m2 and under Air Mass 1.5 spectral distribution. Since these conditions are not always typical of how PV modules and arrays operate in the field, actual performance is usually 85 to 90 percent of the STC rating. _

Air mass 1.5 Spectral distribution, means among other things, cloud cover. The actual performance refers to conditions in Florida. Fingal I'm not so sure.


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## Setanta12 (7 Aug 2018)

I'm a luddite here re this - but aren't there two types of solar-panelling; one with tubes of some kind that doesn't care whether you're from rain-swept Wesht of Ireland or sunny Florida ...

And the payback is estimated at 13 years in the SEAI's own literature .. .. ... hmmmm .. .. not. good.


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## Zenith63 (7 Aug 2018)

Sorry cremeegg, I thought when you were referring to efficiency in your first post, you meant how much of your generated solar you’ll actually use as opposed to export to the grid...


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## cremeegg (7 Aug 2018)

Setanta12 said:


> I'm a luddite here re this - but aren't there two types of solar-panelling; one with tubes of some kind that doesn't care whether you're from rain-swept Wesht of Ireland or sunny Florida ....



This thread is talking about photo voltaic cells, which make electricity.  They work off sunlight and actually operate better in low temperatures. These are relatively new to Ireland.

The other type of solar panels work off the heat in the air so direct sun light is not so important. They heat water rather than generate electricity. These have been in Ireland for a while.


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## cremeegg (7 Aug 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> Sorry cremeegg, I thought when you were referring to efficiency in your first post, you meant how much of your generated solar you’ll actually use as opposed to export to the grid...



I think you were correct. A 4kWhr PV cell is a cell that outputs 4kWhr under standard conditions. At 20% efficiency it would require 20kWhr of energy from the sun.

However, _Since these (standard) conditions are not always typical of how PV modules and arrays operate in the field, actual performance is usually 85 to 90 percent of the STC rating. _

And thats in Florida, I would wonder about actual performance in an Irish field.


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## Leo (13 Aug 2018)

Pretty detailed KPMG report on the potential of PV in Ireland [broken link removed], but note that all the calculations that show domestic PV becoming viable here are based upon the assumption that grid export tariffs will be introduced, and I'm not aware of any proposals for such a move.


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## Leo (13 Aug 2018)

Setanta12 said:


> And the payback is estimated at 13 years in the SEAI's own literature .. .. ... hmmmm .. .. not. good.



They have a calculator on the site that lets you input your location, demand, usage patterns etc. to get a more accurate calculation. Mine came in at 17 years, and that excludes any ongoing maintenance costs.


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## shweeney (14 Aug 2018)

_*SEAI*: On average, a solar PV system can save between €200-€300 per year on your domestic electricity bill_

If the system costs 9K to install, that's a 30 year payback period. No thanks.


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## Leo (14 Aug 2018)

shweeney said:


> If the system costs 9K to install, that's a 30 year payback period. No thanks.



And 30 years assuming the system runs at the same efficiency and requires no maintenance or replacement parts during all that time.


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## shweeney (14 Aug 2018)

Leo said:


> And 30 years assuming the system runs at the same efficiency and requires no maintenance or replacement parts during all that time.



and assuming I live that long and don't move house - it's a terrible deal all round, the govt is going to have to do more to reduce energy use in old houses. 

I've looked at solar PV, solar tubes, external insulation - none of them make any financial sense to retrofit at the current grant levels.


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## RMGC11 (14 Aug 2018)

@shweeney - what measures did you find to be cost effective currently?


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## shweeney (14 Aug 2018)

RMGC11 said:


> @shweeney - what measures did you find to be cost effective currently?



my attic is insulated, we replaced the boiler when we bought the house. Despite this, we still use a lot of gas as it's a 1970s building with no real wall insulation. My neighbour had external insulation done and it cost 14K - at best it might save me €500 a year, so 28 years to pay for itself. You might suggest it's worth doing anyway for the increased comfort in the house, and if you have the money just lying around then maybe so. But I think the govt is going to have to do more given it's EU obligations, and it's probably worth waiting to see what that is. The same goes for solar.

In the meantime, hit "boost"


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## panindub (17 Aug 2018)

@shweeney, don't forget to factor in Gas rate inflation (conservative estimate would 2% Gas price increase per year)  over the next 10 to 20 yrs. This could reduce you initial payback of 28 yr down considerable....


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## jimmyging (8 Apr 2019)

Hi all 
As the price of pv panels has come down considerably I said that I'd have a look at pv again so I got someone out to price it up for me .Heres my figures which seem to be starting to stack up .I have a big site so am looking at ground mounted although I could go with roof mounted as well although groundmounted will have better alignment.
Price for 6kw system with inverters and small 2.4 kw battery (just a buffer and have phev(10 kw battery) and looking at changing second car for ev through business ) is coming in at just under 10k .grant will be 3800 so that leaves me out of pocket by 6200 .If I can use all or most of 6kwh generated by pvs (big if )this would garner a saving of roughly 1k per annum giving a payback of 6-7 years ,possibly less  given the possibility of carbon taxes and thus increase in energy bills .Am I missing something here ?


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## Leo (8 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> Price for 6kw system <snip> If I can use all or most of 6kwh generated



6kW is a lot of panel, but note that the 6kW rating is the theoretical peak output of the panels in very sunny locations, you'll get a lot less than that in practice over the course of the day. Solar systems in Ireland tend to deliver 75% of their annual output from May to September. The SEAI Solar [broken link removed] has more detail.

Location and panel orientation will be key factors in determining how many kWh you can generate over the course of a typical day. If you consume a lot of electricity in the mornings, better orient the panels so they are more east facing, west facing for usage later in the day. 

This 2017 Solar PV where the sun doesn’t shine: paper goes into great detail on the viability of such systems here. They calculate a 21 year payback on a 6kW system in a high demand application. Increasing grants will have reduced that number, but not down to 6-7 years yet.


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## jimmyging (8 Apr 2019)

Thanks for that Leo ,that report looks out of date price wise but the logic used is very interesting .Price wise if I was to use the example used of the domestic installation it would cost me 28 k to install a 6kW system so i think the price of pvs has come down drastically since it was published and combined with the grant it is as a carbon saving project starting to look very interesting .


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## Leo (8 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> that report looks out of date price wise



It was published in 2017, using pre-grant numbers by the looks of it. Who is quoting ~10k for a 6kW system including battery? What size and brand panels are they suggesting? Going beyond 12sqm or 50% of roof area requires planning permission, I believe any ground installed system will require planning.


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## jimmyging (8 Apr 2019)

My understanding is that planning only requires that ground installed can’t go higher than 2m . Panels are tier one monocrystalline 305 W .


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## Leo (9 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> My understanding is that planning only requires that ground installed can’t go higher than 2m



You're right, with a limit of 25sqm. So where is installing a 6kw system with battery for €10k?


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## jimmyging (10 Apr 2019)

I received 2 quotes so far coming in at 10 k , one with 2.4 battery and one without . If you look at solartricity website there are good panels for sale for between 105-142 ex vat each .


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## Leo (10 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> I received 2 quotes so far coming in at 10 k , one with 2.4 battery and one without . If you look at solartricity website there are good panels for sale for between 105-142 ex vat each .



Again, can you name any of these? Wholesale suppliers are no good if you want to avail of the grant.

To get to 6kW, you're looking at 30sqm of those panels, so you will need to go down the planning route.


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## Funnyname (10 Apr 2019)

How can the govt bring in such a scheme when going for 4kw (max allowance in scheme while also getting a battery) of PW panels will end up requiring PP but ignore this within the scheme.


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## Leo (10 Apr 2019)

Funnyname said:


> How can the govt bring in such a scheme when going for 4kw (max allowance in scheme while also getting a battery) of PW panels will end up requiring PP but ignore this within the scheme.



You can opt for up to a 4kW system with battery, but the grant for the panel element hits the max at 2kW. Average household electricity consumption in Ireland is 11kWh per day, so 4kW of solar or above is overkill in most cases. Too much solar supply causes efficiency problems for the grid too, with large peaks during the middle of the day when demand is at its lowest.


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## Funnyname (10 Apr 2019)

Grant is 3800 max

700 per kw installed up to 4kw

1000 for a battery

However once you go over 2k you have to get a battery.

You to get the max grant the govt are requiring households to have to get PP for the install. However that isn't mentioned in the scheme.


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## jimmyging (13 Apr 2019)

Leo you are looking for names of suppliers . Are you in the industry yourself or looking at installing ?


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## Leo (15 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> Leo you are looking for names of suppliers . Are you in the industry yourself or looking at installing ?



I'm not in the industry but curious who's quoting 10k for a 6kW system with 2.4kWh battery.

I'm not interested in installing though, they payback is still too long to make sense.


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## MrEarl (15 Apr 2019)

Leo said:


> .... payback is still too long to make sense.



...and very simply, that's the reason that there will be so little take up.


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## Leo (15 Apr 2019)

MrEarl said:


> ...and very simply, that's the reason that there will be so little take up.



Yeah, the only way I see it making any sense at the moment is for a new build to hit the required energy rating.


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## MrEarl (15 Apr 2019)

That will take a hell of a long time though.... are new builds even forced to install (I doubt it) ?

If we look at the bigger picture, the government really needs to get it's act together here.  The obvious thing to do, is take some more financial pain now to incentivise people to install immediately.  Sure, it'll cost the exchequer now, but might save the nation a lot more in the long run.


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## Leo (15 Apr 2019)

MrEarl said:


> are new builds even forced to install (I doubt it) ?



Yeah, under the current regs they must have an element of renewable. 

In terms of the bigger picture though, too much grid-connected solar is problematic in terms of maximum generation coinciding with the lowest demand. That's where the requirement for local batter integration comes into play. I just wonder if all the costs of issuing administering lots of small scale projects might be more effectively spent.


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## jimmyging (18 Apr 2019)

MrEarl said:


> ...and very simply, that's the reason that there will be so little take up.





Leo said:


> I'm not in the industry but curious who's quoting 10k for a 6kW system with 2.4kWh battery.
> 
> I'm not interested in installing though, they payback is still too long to make sense.


If you are looking at Seai calculator for payback period that is outdated . If you are interested in real life instances of payback on this have a look over on boards.ie renewable energies thread .


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## Leo (18 Apr 2019)

jimmyging said:


> If you are looking at Seai calculator for payback period that is outdated . If you are interested in real life instances of payback on this have a look over on boards.ie renewable energies thread .



I'm not, but do you want to clarify what is wrong with their figures?

You still can't name the installers offering a 6kW system with battery for €10k???


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## Laughahalla (19 Apr 2019)

shweeney said:


> _*SEAI*: On average, a solar PV system can save between €200-€300 per year on your domestic electricity bill_
> 
> If the system costs 9K to install, that's a 30 year payback period. No thanks.



Where is the 9k figure coming from?

I have a 4.2kw solar PV array with 4.8kwh litium battery. Net of grant it cost me 6k.
I reckon at current usage I'll use about 1300 kwh max from the grid in a full 12 month. That's a bill of less than €400 per annum.

Electricity prices generally rise 5% per year too so solar PV makes sense if you have cash sitting in the bank earning almost zero interest. 

People put a lot of emphasis on pay back. What's the payback on your car , a new kitchen or new whatever. At least solar PV helps reduce monthly bills for electricity and can also heat your water with excess .


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## jimmyging (19 Apr 2019)

Laughahalla said:


> Where is the 9k figure coming from?
> 
> I have a 4.2kw solar PV array with 4.8kwh litium battery. Net of grant it cost me 6k.
> I reckon at current usage I'll use about 1300 kwh max from the grid in a full 12 month. That's a bill of less than €400 per annum.
> ...


And also the price of PV panels is continually decreasing as well .


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## newtothis (19 Apr 2019)

Laughahalla said:


> People put a lot of emphasis on pay back. What's the payback on your car , a new kitchen or new whatever.



That's because people buy things like cars and kitchens for reasons other than utility. It's hard to think of a more commodity item than electricity. Just about the only attribute it has to distinguish itself is price, which is the reason for the focus on it.

If you look at payback periods, in very rough terms a solar/battery setup currently has a payback period of about 10 years. One way of thinking is to ask yourself “would I pre-purchase 10 years’ worth of electricity?" Of course, it’s not as simple as that, as at the end of those 10 years the system will hopefully still work (though not at its original capacity) and will continue to provide electricity at no further cost. There’s also the uncertainty about the future price of grid-supplied electricity.

You’ve basically the following choices:

-        Keep using grid power, with uncertainty over its future price (it’s unlikely to get cheaper as any fall in fuel prices will probably be offset by carbon taxes).

-        Pay up front for about 10-years’ worth of electricity by purchasing solar/battery.

-        Borrow to do the same, extending the payback period to cover the interest. This only really makes sense as an attempt to fix the price you’re paying.

A key part of the decision is whether you are likely to be living in the same house for the next 10 years or more.

The general conclusion seems to be that it is highly marginal from a strictly financial point of view, and probably not worth it given the disruption of the install.

However, one factor that does come into it gets back to my initial comment about how much of a commodity electricity is. In times gone by, price was just about the only consideration. However, given current concerns about damage to the planet, a second consideration is how the electricity is generated: until all grid power is generated from renewable sources, do you want to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem?

As with EVs, the technology is still pretty much in the “early adopter” phase, but defitely on the way to the mainstream: the arguments for it are all trending in the right direction.


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## tomwa (25 Apr 2019)

Just a few points to help the discussion.

PVWatts is a US Government built site that also covers Ireland. Pop in your location and proposed system stats and it will use historical weather data from your nearest weather station to estimate annual solar PV production:
https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

I'd advise anyone considering solar and/or a home battery to install a home energy meter with online stats like an OWL ( http://www.theowl.com/index.php/energy-monitors/remote-monitoring/intuition-e/ ) or Smappee ( [broken link removed] ) first.
Get at least a month of data. See what the impact of switching to a nightsaver tariff may be, look at your consumption during peak daylight hours and compare to the hourly average production numbers you get from PVWatts.

Some definitions:
kWp - kilowatt (peak) - This is usually a stated spec on PV panels/arrays and is the peak power production number under ideal lab conditions.
kWh - kilowatt-hour - this is a unit of energy equivalent to the energy a constant 1kW load would use in an hour. This is what your units on your electricity bill represent and the capacity of a battery is measured in.
kW - kilowatt - this is a unit of instantaneous electrical power. As an example a standard household ESB connection is rated for around 12kW, if you powered on twenty 1kW appliances at the same time you'd blow your main ESB fuse.

A home battery system will have three primary metrics.
Capacity - which is measured in kWh - there is also sometimes a difference between the nameplate capacity and the usable capacity, though normal practice is to only state the usable capacity.
Power output (sustained) - measured in kW - this is the highest sustained load the battery can support. This is a spec of the inverter, which in some installations is built-in to the battery and in others is your solar inverter (which may have a different rated output for power from the battery to power from solar)
Power output (peak) - measured in kW - this is the highest peak load the battery can support, usually for a period of time measured in seconds (often important to allow for loads like refrigerators which have spikes in load when first powered up)

If you turn on appliances exceeding the kW power output the battery can supply the remainder needs to be supplied from the grid or any remaining solar power.

Some examples:
Tesla Powerwall 2. It's usable capacity is 13.5kWh (enough to support a 1kW load for 13.5 hours). It has a built-in inverter with a sustained power output of 5kW and a peak of 7kW (for up to 10 seconds).
SonnenBatterie Eco. It's usable capacity is 5kWh (enough to support a 1kW load for 5 hours). It has a built-in inverter with a sustained power output of 2kW and a peak of 3.3kW (for up to 10 seconds).
LG Resu 10H. It's nameplate capacity is 9.8kWh, but usable is 9.3kWh (enough to support a 1kW load for 9.3 hours). It has no built-in inverter. A typical inverter used with this system would be a 5kW rated model. However while the inverter may support 5kW of power from solar... it may only support only 3kW of power from the battery.

Lithium is not a rare material... it's also non-toxic, common (we even have quite a lot of lithium carbonate in Ireland), relatively clean to extract vs other materials and is usually only 2-3% of the battery by weight. It's a Lithium battery because lithium is the active component...not because it's a large portion of the material used to make up the cell. For most home storage batteries aluminium is actually the largest constituent material by weight followed by graphite.


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## yildun (22 Jun 2019)

hi Here is a Current quote for a PV Install incl VAT i received this month

2kW Solar PV + hot water starts at about €3,500 after the grant.
4kW Solar PV + 2.4kWh Battery storage at about €4,500 after the grant.
6kW Solar PV + 4.8kWh Battery storage at about €6,500 after the grant.


I have also received quotes in excess of 10k for the 4KW system and over5k
for a 2.4 non hybred inverter and including diverter

thanks


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## yildun (1 Jul 2019)

here as promised is the quote  The Contact for the company is Ciaran  easy guy to deal with  I have no personal or otherwise interest in  this companyThey are SEAI approved   the quote is 200e   aprox cheaper if Longi PVs are used instead of Peimar 

Terms seem to be 50 percent up front then the rest when finished

Dont forget the BER 160e      I also see its 5k Solis not 3.8 as I said in last msg

I also needed some extra electrical work on my Junction Box  which is included on the Invoice

after Grant I will pay 4700.00e for his 4kw system

Eco Horizon LTD
Derrough,
Mountrath,
Co. Laois,
Ireland.
Vat No: 3360173WH
Thank you for your business.
Sincerely yours,
Ciaran kells
Energy Systems Engineer - B.Sc B.Eng
Eco Horizon LTD


Date: 30/06/19
Invoice Number: 718a
Terms: To be decided
Description Quantity Unit Price Cost
Electrical Work 2 € 375.00 € 750.00
Electrical AC equipment 1 € 562.50 € 562.50
Roof Installation 2 € 375.00 € 750.00
RHL + Base and screws 28 € 9.24 € 258.65
3.3m rail 12 € 15.00 € 180.00
rail connector 8 € 2.69 € 21.50
end clamp 8 € 2.90 € 23.20
mid clamp 20 € 1.69 € 33.75
peimar OS300M 14 € 135.00 € 1,890.00
Solis 5K hybrid 1 € 1,336.25 € 1,336.25
Battery (pylon tech) 1 € 931.25 € 931.25
Battery Cabinet and protection 1 € 125.00 € 125.00
Delivery and logistics 1 € 375.00 € 375.00
Solis data stick 1 € 43.75 € 43.75
Meter 1 € 21.25 € 21.25
Rapid shut off 1 € 187.50 € 187.50
Subtotal € 7,489.60
Tax 13.50% € 1,011.10
Total € 8,500.70
Seai Grant (3,800) € 4,700.70


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## Palerider (1 Jul 2019)

Very helpful, is there no diverter to immersion in that ?

And curious if your battery is a little small for storage, 2.4 kWh ?, you have over 4kwh on the roof.

How much is the extra work on your junction box, not sure about that.

The itemised invoice is very transparent, nice to see that.


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## yildun (1 Jul 2019)

no diverter   I might add an extra battery at a later date and I agree It may  be a bit small at 2.4KW   however  the battery case can take a few more batteries and I prefer it to the diverter also  It gets the extra 1K grant and hybrid inverter   rather than standard  inverter       either way over 3KW you have to get a Battery according to SEAI and I can all ways  switch on the Immersion if its sunny!    I feel that they will have to start paying for the extra unused  KWs that go back to the Grid and talks have all ready started on a feed in tariff  so batteries for on grid system might be pointless

A micro-generation scheme is expected to be launched before the end of the year and a permanent support scheme for photovoltaic (PV) power which would allow all homeowners who have solar panels to sell their excess electricity will be launched by 2021       Irish Mirror

 Junction box is about 200e  mine is  an old one   The full  price seems a nice balance between the Grant and the amount you finally pay out  in my case 4700e      I have quotes for similar systems  that are in the region of 10K plus  

thanks


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## Leo (2 Jul 2019)

yildun said:


> I feel that they will have to start paying for the extra unused KWs that go back to the Grid and talks have all ready started on a feed in tariff so batteries for on grid system might be pointless



You can be 100% certain that any feed-in-tariff will be considerably less than the final per-unit cost to you. Other countries have cut back on or stopped tariffs for PV due to grid management issues around over-supply in mid-afternoon., we'd have a long way to go before it's an issue here, but feed in tariffs should be looked on as a bonus, and not counted on to justify a long pay back period.


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## yildun (5 Jul 2019)

feed in tariffs are expected to be about 5 to 7c if it happens   and indeed the pay back is longterm even if the lowest  unit cost increases from 15.4c  over the next few years  to 19 or  21 c or higher  it could still take 15 plus years to break even on the other hand investing 5k in a 4KW solar sytsem will give you a better return than investing 5k in  a savings account   at 2.5pc PA        The real bonus is going a bit greener


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## Alkers86 (5 Jul 2019)

yildun said:


> I agree It may  be a bit small at 2.4KW


Absolutely get the smallest battery you can find to start with when getting the initial installation through the SEAI scheme. The grant is €1,000 regardless of size (above 1kWh I think) as well as unlocking the remaining grant for extra panels. I don't think that adding an extra battery with add up at all but at least you can do the maths on this quite accurately once the system is up and running. Be sure and change to a night meter once the system installed. You would be hoping to fully deplete your battery just before the night rate kicks in, even in the depths of winter.

Using the battery stored capacity when you could be availing of the night rate is likely for you to be making a loss on the cost of the battery.


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## Leo (8 Jul 2019)

Alkers86 said:


> Be sure and change to a night meter once the system installed.



Only do this if you can time a significant portion (25%+ of typical household consumption) of your electricity use during the night rate period - 11pm to 8am GMT. Otherwise it will cost you more through increased day rates and standing charges.


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## Alkers86 (10 Jul 2019)

Leo said:


> Only do this if you can time a significant portion (25%+ of typical household consumption) of your electricity use during the night rate period - 11pm to 8am GMT. Otherwise it will cost you more through increased day rates and standing charges.


Which nearly everyone would have once they have the solar PV installed?


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## Leo (10 Jul 2019)

Alkers86 said:


> Which nearly everyone would have once they have the solar PV installed?



Not for the majority unless they significantly alter usage patterns.


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