# moving house, need advice on how to keep tracker



## onthemoove (6 Nov 2013)

Hi,

We need to move to bigger house. Currently we have tracker mortgage with KBC. When we inquired with KBC they informed us that they do not allow transfer of tracker to new property. We were hoping that we could transfer the tracker mortgage or at least extract some value from paying it off early(as we will have to sell house), but KBC will not do any sort of a deal. We have some negative equity also that we have to deal with and approx 22 years left on mortgage. Anyone any ideas as we are not getting any help from the bank(which is what we expected). We have got the information from KBC about their negative equity mortgage but this only kicks the can down the road for us, while the bank can re-lend our mortgage at a higher margin(ie. back to us as a negative equity mortgage at their SVR rate).
Thanks in advance


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## idkwatmi (7 Nov 2013)

I think if you were with any of the other main lenders boi aib etc you would have more of a chance of moving your tracker to a new mortgage but as far as I'm aware KBC have stated that they do not intend to offer this in the near future.


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## doddery (7 Nov 2013)

Does anyone know if PTSB are giving any leeway on this subject for people who are looking to move (with or without neg equity)?


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## PadKiss (7 Nov 2013)

Hi all
Listen to the ads of both BOI and KBC in relation to mortgages that are running at present and you will get very fustrated (false advertising i would say) that you are in fact being told that you cannot move home for any reason without suiting the bank and their drive for profit. Contact every politician you know to highlight this matter and i mean everyone that reads this thread. Their adverts suggest that these two lenders are in fact the very place you should go for your dream home. I have far too many clients whose dream with these lenders turned into nightmares through the loss of their tracker rates. Just my thoughts Padraic


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## dec1892 (10 Nov 2013)

Does anyone have information on whether AIB are allowing people to transfer their trackers to a new property/home. Have a tracker mortgage with AIB and looking to move house next year.


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## ronaldo (10 Nov 2013)

PadKiss said:


> you are in fact being told that you cannot move home for any reason without suiting the bank and their drive for profit



As opposed to what? The banks are businesses, not charities!


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## PadKiss (10 Nov 2013)

Exactly what I mean they are a business but need to live by the terms and conditions that customers signed up to however they became charities of sorta when they took our tax money gladly I might add


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2013)

PadKiss said:


> I have far too many clients whose dream with these lenders turned into nightmares through the loss of their tracker rates.



Hi Padraic

Let's not confuse things here. 

Bank of Ireland and KBC are advertising that they are open for mortgage lending, and as far as I know, they are giving out mortgages.

People lost their trackers through fixing their interest rates and coming off fixed rates.  It seems to have been a deliberate policy of the lenders and I have often condemned them for that and ASkaboutmoney has been instrumental in getting a lot of people their trackers back.

Other than these people, no one who has remained in their home has lost their tracker or has had their contract varied unfairly in any way.

Ulster Bank and Bank of Ireland have offered a deal for people to move home and partially keep their trackers . They were under no  obligation, legal or moral, to do so.


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## Joe_90 (11 Nov 2013)

How much did the taxpayer put into KBC?


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2013)

Joe_90 said:


> How much did the taxpayer put into KBC?



And for that matter, how much has the taxpayer put into Bank of Ireland and how much is that stake  worth now? I think that the taxpayer may actually be in the black. 

The Irish taxpayer put nothing into Ulster Bank either. 

It's the ones which have cost the Irish taxpayer the most which not allowing the trackers to move - AIB, EBS and ptsb.  It is a bit odd.

Brendan


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## PadKiss (11 Nov 2013)

Hi Brendan
There is no confusion on my part and I agree it was a deliberate policy in terms of the fixed rates and what happens on expiry (and some lenders have got away with it too). Looking back at the launch of the tracker products and the communications around same and you will see that the loss of trackers following exit from fixed rate terms was nothing but an attempt by the banks to prevent customers returning to their terms and conditions when it suited them. However i would not link Ulster bank and its portable option for customers which is of great benefit, and Bank Of Ireland who in their current ad campaign claim that you can move with your tracker when it is anything but the porting of your loan (all existing terms and conditions change) and while agree there is no obligation to offer this as an option what is unfair is the advertising of it as an option. All i suggest now is that new customers look at the treatment of existing customers before deciding who to take your home loan with. I agree pressure should come to bear on the other lenders whooly owned by state who should look at the options they could be made available. It would be good for the movement of property as well. In terms of tax payers money that may not be finished either as we have learnt today.Padraic


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## onthemoove (11 Nov 2013)

Thanks for all the replies to my question. I guess all that will happen with our situation is if we want to move we loose the tracker. It may be the case that if we move the new mortgage will have to be taken out from KBC as they are offering the negative equity mortgage or because their rates seem to be among the best or they may be the only bank that will lend us money.

We would wish to go with another bank because of the way the tracker will end up but we might not have that option.


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## onthemoove (11 Nov 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Ulster Bank and Bank of Ireland have offered a deal for people to move home and partially keep their trackers . They were under no  obligation, legal or moral, to do so.



I agree that no bank have an obligation etc to offer the option to keep their trackers but it should turn into a win win for the mortgage holder, bank and the country. 
Mortgage holder gets some relief via BOI deal or a lot of relief from UB deal with repayments for new mortgage. 
Bank gets a bit of good PR and may get to lend more money to complete house purchase at better interest rate or in the case of BOI at best interest rate for bank after 5 years I think.
New house purchases lead to more money being spent in the economy, stamp duty etc etc.

The government/central bank need to try and force all the banks to offer an Ulster Bank type of product to all tracker holders.As a Tax Payer I think I have supported the banks enough, without having to pay a very high margin over the ECB rate(I presume that is where banks should be borrowing from, if it is not why are tracker tied to an ECB rate) to the bank for the new mortgage if we move.  

So maybe the banks should have a legal obligation to offer a deal to tracker holders.


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## onthemoove (11 Nov 2013)

ronaldo said:


> As opposed to what? The banks are businesses, not charities!



The point could be made that a bank as a business should try to get rid of their trackers by doing a deal if the opportunity arises, as they are supposed to be costing the banks money.


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## ronaldo (11 Nov 2013)

onthemoove said:


> The point could be made that a bank as a business should try to get rid of their trackers by doing a deal if the opportunity arises, as they are supposed to be costing the banks money.



Yeah, but the banks have probably worked out that most people in a position to accept any deal they offer are likely to go ahead and move over the next few years anyway.

Noone knows the exact figures but I'm sure their tracker book is being reduced significantly through a combination of:


Most of peoples monthly repayment is paying down capital as opposed to interest with a 0.25% base rate;
A lot of single people and couples who bought apartments in Dublin and looking to start a family are likely to be aggressively overpaying to enable them to move to a 3-bed property
A lot of high-value homes belonged to the older generation and a proportion of these homes are being sold through both death and/or downsizing
The average term of the trackers must be about 15-18 years now meaning that, even without the above, the tracker book is diminishing by about 5% per year

I imagine the offering of a deal is unlikely to save the banks much at all.


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