# Pregnant and made redundant



## michelle123 (28 Dec 2006)

Just wondering - At the moment we are trying for a baby.. have put it of for long enough and reckon there is never a right time - Thing is my job is not completely secure (i.e company might be setting up in Eastern Europe and leaving Ireland) and I might be up for redundancy later this year. ( have a permanent job for last 5 years)
My concern is of course what if I am 6 months pregnant and am forced redundancy- can't really see any employer wanting to employ a woman 6 months pregnant and financially can't afford to be out of work - mortgage etc.. . Is there anything in the legislation that protects women in this instance ?


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## RainyDay (28 Dec 2006)

Hi Michelle - I don't think there is any special protection for pregnant women in these circumstance. There would of course be some redundancy entitlement, same as any other employee.


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## MsGinger (1 Jan 2007)

You cannot be made redundant if you are on maternity leave, so it could depend on the timing of the redundancies.


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## RainyDay (1 Jan 2007)

MsGinger said:


> You cannot be made redundant if you are on maternity leave, so it could depend on the timing of the redundancies.



I'm not so sure about this. What happens in cases where an entire factory is closing down while a couple of people are out on maternity? Are you saying their reduncancies are delayed for their return?

I did hear of one individual in a large multi-national (who would be very careful about complying with legislation) making a group of people including one lady on maternity leave redundant recently.


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## pat127 (1 Jan 2007)

MsGinger said:


> You cannot be made redundant if you are on maternity leave, so it could depend on the timing of the redundancies.


 
Hi MsG. Do you have an exact source for this statement? I haven't been able to find one myself. Are you thinking of the right to Maternity Benefit?

I'm also inclined to the view that pregnancy doesn't protect you from being made redundant. All I can find in the regs are the rules regarding returning to work:-

*"Returning to Work *

You are entitled to return to work after maternity leave. The Maternity Protection Act, 1994 states that if it is not reasonably practicable for your employer to allow you to return to your job, then they must provide you with suitable alternative work. This new position should not be on terms substantially less favourable than those of your previous job. 
Otherwise, you are entitled to be treated as if you had been at work during your maternity leave. Your employment conditions cannot be worsened by the fact that you have taken maternity leave, and if pay or other conditions have improved while you have been on maternity leave then you are entitled to these benefits when you return to work. 
If you decide not to return to work after your period of maternity leave, you are required to give your employer notice in the usual manner . "

I suspect that it's implicit that there is a job to return to!


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## ramble (1 Jan 2007)

You also won't get maternity benefit if you have no job to go back to.  You will get disability benefit but only for a short period (less than maternity leave) then you are back to unemployment benefit and are supposed to look for work.  Disability benefit is a lot less than maternity benefit.  If you are made redundant you will get a redundancy payment but it might be worth your while getting any kind of a job you can between being made redundant and your due date to protect your maternity benefit.  It would be worth your while making an appointment with a citizens information centre to go through the issues, they will be able to give you acurate figures and time scales


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## RainyDay (1 Jan 2007)

ramble said:


> You will get disability benefit but only for a short period (less than maternity leave) then you are back to unemployment benefit and are supposed to look for work.  Disability benefit is a lot less than maternity benefit.


Isn't Disability Allowance limited to conditions which are expected to last more than 1 year?


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## LizaM (2 Jan 2007)

Hiya, ive just come out of a scenario whereby my boss hired somebody else while i was on maternity leave. He then tried to offer me redundancy.

needless to say when he got a letter from my solicitor they immediatly backtracked and said of course my job was still there.

this went on for a year of them being total wankers etc, and we got a court date in the EAT for the end of november.

They phoned my solicitor then the weekend before the court date with a offer.

We settled out of court couple of weeks before christmas.

You do have rights. you cannot be made redundant while on leave. They have to hold your job open until you come back.


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## RainyDay (2 Jan 2007)

LizaM said:


> You do have rights. you cannot be made redundant while on leave. They have to hold your job open until you come back.


What about legitimate cases where a dept or entire organisation is closing down when a couple of people are out on maternity? What happens then? Are you saying there is some legislative protection in such cases?


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## MugsGame (2 Jan 2007)

RainyDay is right -- you can be made redundant while pregnant or on maternity leave, provided the company can demonstrate that neither was the reason you were selected for redundancy.


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## Diziet (2 Jan 2007)

MugsGame said:


> RainyDay is right -- you can be made redundant while pregnant or on maternity leave, provided the company can demonstrate that neither was the reason you were selected for redundancy.


 

Maternity leave does not exclude you from redundancy, but it must not be the reason you are made redundant. In addition, the leave must end before redundancy becomes a reality, ie they cannot cut your leave short by making you redundant. My company has just gone through a similar situation, and employees on mat leave who were selected for redundancy will not actualy be made redundant till they come back.

It is a very brave (or foolish) company who would mess a pregnant employee around in this situation.

cheers,
Diziet


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## pat127 (2 Jan 2007)

I agree with MugsGame. LizaM's case although an unfortunate one for her, doesn't classify as a genuine redundancy. It should also follow that if a special arrangement applies to someone who is pregnant, the same benefit should apply in any other circumstance where a person is unable to be at work, illness for example.


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## MsGinger (2 Jan 2007)

Just going by info received on a course re:the maternity leave acts:

"An employee who is on maternity leave cannot be dismissed, made redundant or suspended while on such leave.  Notice of any kind of dismissal or redundancy, cannot be given to an employee while that employee is on maternity leave".

I assume that notice can be given when an employee advises employer of their date of return, in the case of entire depts closing.


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## pat127 (2 Jan 2007)

MsGinger said:


> Just going by info received on a course re:the maternity leave acts:
> 
> "An employee who is on maternity leave cannot be dismissed, made redundant or suspended while on such leave. Notice of any kind of dismissal or redundancy, cannot be given to an employee while that employee is on maternity leave".
> 
> I assume that notice can be given when an employee advises employer of their date of return, in the case of entire depts closing.


 


Thanks for that. I found the following on the Irish Congress of Trade Unions site:-

*"Protection against Dismissal*

An employee who is on protective leave under the Act, cannot be dismissed, made redundant or suspended while on such leave.
Notice of dismissal, redundancy or suspension given prior to maternity leave, additional maternity leave, time off for natal care or father’s leave, that is due to take effect during such leave, is extended to the end of the end of the period of leave .
An employee cannot be dismissed on grounds of pregnancy, for having recently given birth or for breastfeeding or any matters connected therewith.  An employee cannot be dismissed because she availed of rights allowed to her under the Maternity Protection Act, 1994 including the right to protective leave or natal care absence.  The Maternity Protection Act, 1994  amends the Unfair Dismissals Acts, 1977 to 1993 to that effect."

So what happens in practice in the case where the company closes down during the period when someone is on leave? She continues to collect whatever benefits she's entitled to and her redundancy begins on her return date? Does anyone know for certain?


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## Diziet (3 Jan 2007)

pat127 said:


> So what happens in practice in the case where the company closes down during the period when someone is on leave? She continues to collect whatever benefits she's entitled to and her redundancy begins on her return date? Does anyone know for certain?


 
Yes, that is correct. I have seen this happen in exactly this way.


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## pat127 (3 Jan 2007)

Diziet said:


> Yes, that is correct. I have seen this happen in exactly this way.


 
Thank you.


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## LizaM (4 Jan 2007)

RainyDay said:


> What about legitimate cases where a dept or entire organisation is closing down when a couple of people are out on maternity? What happens then? Are you saying there is some legislative protection in such cases?


 
they cannot make you redundant whilst your on maternity leave.

the redundancy would have to take effect from the time your leave ends.

they would also have to prove if asked that the reason for redundacny had absolutley nothing to do with the employee being pregnant.

luckily enough pregnant women in this country are really protected by the laws in their jobs.


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## RainyDay (4 Jan 2007)

Interesting - I note that the DETE explicitly states that you cannot be made redundant while on maternity leave, though I can't find anything more detailed on the Equality Authority website.


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## pat127 (4 Jan 2007)

michelle123 said:


> )
> My concern is of course what if I am 6 months pregnant and am forced redundancy- can't really see any employer wanting to employ a woman 6 months pregnant and financially can't afford to be out of work - mortgage etc.. . Is there anything in the legislation that protects women in this instance ?


 
References to Maternity Leave have crept into this thread. The OP's question referred specifically to the situation that applies were she to be made redundant while pregnant - and thus still at work. I don't think that the question has been answered other than in RainyDay's first reply.


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## moylan1 (5 Jan 2007)

since you have been there for 5 years and you know the set up of the place, and rather than doing nothing and risk proving that your instincts were correct, i would search for new employment.


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