# Bad Service from Solicitor



## MandaC (27 Jun 2005)

My mum was injured in an accident in January, unfortunately she is still off work and has had to pursue an injuries claim.  She did not feel up to dealing with PIAB, etc, herself so we appointed a Solicitor for her.  That was about 3 months ago.  The Solicitor said the first thing he would do was obtain her doctors report.  Three months later and there is still no sign of it.  My mum has phoned three times in the last week, and the Secretary was to follow up, she then needed to speak to the Solictor/Book keeper to follow up, my mum has been promised calls back which never materialise.

They sent her a letter asking if she was able to attend a Doctors examination for the other side.  I sent them a fax confirming ok.  The same letter was sent again to Mum  twice (after I had sent the fax) requesting she confirm to them, even though they had previously confirmed receipt of the fax. Also,  the address details they gave us for the other side's doctor was incorrect and I spent Friday morning driving around town(which I hate) and eventually found the place by default.

I phoned the Solicitor's office on Friday and requested an update on Mum's behalf, still no call back.  Today, I sent a fax listing the queries Mum has and requested that she is called back urgently.  Still no call back.  
Dealing with the Solicitor is turning out to be a nightmare,  and I do not feel she has received the professional service that she deserves. 

Does anyone know if it is possible to have the file moved as we have no confidence in this practice at all?  Are other Solicitors reluctant to take on such cases.

Any advice would be much appreciated.]

Many thanks, 

MandaC


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## bond-007 (28 Jun 2005)

It is possible to move the file, but you must pay the current solicitor first. They should be no problem with another solicitor taking on the case.

I am currently having probs with a solictor handling an uncontested probate. I keep writing nasty letters threatening law society action. Not even the threat of a compalint to the law society phases them. Why are they so cocky/arrogant?


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## Chris (28 Jun 2005)

I'd say sending threatening letters is not much good, but what should work is calling every hour on the hour asking for an update. That will soon start to piss them off and hopefully they'll pull the finger out.


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## Vanilla (28 Jun 2005)

MandaC- a good idea if you are anxious about a file in a solicitors office is to make an appointment to see them. You can then talk to them face to face. If you are still unhappy, vote with your feet, but you will have to pay any costs incurred to date. BTW your mothers solicitor is not able to talk to you about your mothers file without her express consent- client confidentiality, so make sure your mother goes, not just you.

Bond007, perhaps the reason the solicitor is not phased by threats of law society reports is that they have done nothing wrong. We live in a culture where everyone wants everything NOW. Unfortunately even with best efforts, some probates can take up to a year and longer.Are you the executor? The solicitor acts on the executors instructions, no one elses.


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## Steve (28 Jun 2005)

Yes, in cases like this, the 'squeeky wheel' method is the best way to get action.

Just keep annoying them, and eventually they will have to oil it.


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## Steve (28 Jun 2005)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> MandaC- a good idea if you are anxious about a file in a solicitors office is to make an appointment to see them. You can then talk to them face to face. If you are still unhappy, vote with your feet, but you will have to pay any costs incurred to date. BTW your mothers solicitor is not able to talk to you about your mothers file without her express consent- client confidentiality, so make sure your mother goes, not just you.
> 
> Bond007, perhaps the reason the solicitor is not phased by threats of law society reports is that they have done nothing wrong. We live in a culture where everyone wants everything NOW. Unfortunately even with best efforts, some probates can take up to a year and longer.Are you the executor? The solicitor acts on the executors instructions, no one elses.



Yes I see your point Vanilla, but that does not excuse at least an simple explanation from the solicitor to set things straight to the client.


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## Vanilla (28 Jun 2005)

Yes I agree, at least in relation to MandaC, it does sound like the solicitor should have talked to her mother. But we all make mistakes so if you make an appt and in actual fact he or she is progressing the file, then maybe this will satisfy her mother.


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## MandaC (28 Jun 2005)

Just to let you know.  I went for the initial consultation with my mother and the Solicitor, so the Solicitor is aware that Mum is in total agreement for the case to be discussed with me, in fact, Mum felt it would be better if that was the way it was done, because to be honest, she lacks confidence dealing with legal issues.


In reality,  there must have been at least 10 calls placed to the Solicitor and two faxes and not one call has been returned.  I am also annoyed about the careless mistakes, ie sending us into town to the wrong address on a wild goose chase. I personally do not think this is an acceptable way to treat clients.  Mum is to visit the Doctor today, and now she has to ask the doctor if her Solicitor has been in touch because she has been unable contact her own representative.Thats no way to do business.  I work in a taxation consultants and we would not survive if we ignored clients that way.  Because we are a busy practice, sometimes we have to turn away clients or refer them to another practice because we feel it is better to offer a professional service, than to fob people off with sub-standard service.  I would have preferred if the Solicitor was honest from the get go and we could have consulted someone who can offer the service that is deserved.

Sorry for the Rant,  I am just fuming at the moment.


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## bond-007 (28 Jun 2005)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> Bond007, perhaps the reason the solicitor is not phased by threats of law society reports is that they have done nothing wrong. We live in a culture where everyone wants everything NOW. Unfortunately even with best efforts, some probates can take up to a year and longer.Are you the executor? The solicitor acts on the executors instructions, no one elses.



Its almost 2 years since the matter was left to them. I put the matter in his hands 2 days after the death. The inquest was 18 months ago. The matter is straight forward. They had all the details.

I had to do their donkey work in calling up insurance companies etc. They don't respond to letters or phone calls. Their staff are rude on the phone. Promises to return calls are empty. The only thing that stirs them is the occasional threatening letter. 

They just don't care and they know that nothing can be done to them. If any other business was ran in this manner there would be no business left.

I am sorry now that I didn't do probate myself.


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## Vanilla (29 Jun 2005)

You didnt answer my question as to whether you are the executor or not, but I assume given your level of involvement that you are. It sounds to me like the service you are getting is very poor- why are you accepting this? If you are the executor you are entitled to take the file elsewhere after paying them for the work done to date. I assure you not all solicitors are like this- I believe the client comes first, if they are not happy with the level of service I provide, ultimately I will lose out on future work and indeed on referrals.


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## contemporary (29 Jun 2005)

forget the solicitor at this stage and deal directly with the PIAB they will send you all the forms you need, since your month had the accident in Jan she has to go the the PIAB first in any case so all your solicitor is doing is preparing a file for the PIAB. Go direct they are very very helpful


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## Vanilla (29 Jun 2005)

Current indications are that applicants who deal directly with PIAB instead of through a solicitor fare worse in terms of the amount of compensation awarded.


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## contemporary (29 Jun 2005)

i'm sure the PIAB would disagree... http://www.piab.ie/aboutus.htm


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## Vanilla (29 Jun 2005)

Yes, I'm sure they would like to disagree too.


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## bond-007 (30 Jun 2005)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> You didnt answer my question as to whether you are the executor or not, but I assume given your level of involvement that you are. It sounds to me like the service you are getting is very poor- why are you accepting this? If you are the executor you are entitled to take the file elsewhere after paying them for the work done to date. I assure you not all solicitors are like this- I believe the client comes first, if they are not happy with the level of service I provide, ultimately I will lose out on future work and indeed on referrals.


 Yes I am the executer.

The problem is I can't pay anyone till probate is granted and I can get money from the estate. If I had the means I would pay the bad solicitor off and have his bill taxed.

I am sure he knows that I cant pay him off and is thus continuing to knock me around.


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## Vanilla (30 Jun 2005)

If you are really unhappy it is possible that your old solicitor might accept an undertaking from your new solicitor to pay them their fees ( once taxed if you feel it necessary) out of the proceeds of the estate. Alternatively, you could get your new solicitor to give an undertaking to a bank for a loan to pay off the old solicitor. Chances are if relations are bad between you and this solicitor, they will jump at the chance to pass the file on.

If you feel you should stay with the old solicitor for whatever reason, I feel a direct approach is the best. Threatening with a complaint to the law society every now and then will only make relations poor- make appointments and meet the solicitor in person and enquire as to progress. And keep doing it. If you are about to land in his or her office, I'm sure the file will get their attention.


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## MandaC (1 Jul 2005)

Just to update the above. I contacted the Solicitors Office on Tuesday.  He was not there so I got his Secretary.  Explained that Mum was not having her calls returned and if they were too busy to deal with the case, I would be able to deal with PIAB directly myself on her behalf.  We had thought about lodging the application forms direct with PIAB ourselves, and I would have had no problem in doing that, but I believe that if you need legal advice, you leave it in the hands of a Solicitor, if you need tax advice, see a Tax Consultant, etc.   I have seen first hand results of DIY tax work!

Anyway,  the Secretary was great,  knew all about the file and explained what had moved and what hadn't. I explained  if we are not kept informed of any updates, then we would rather do it ourselves.  I have the Secretary's contact details now so Mum can call her if she needs reassurance. Have an appointment for Tuesday next week to complete the PIAB documentation.


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## WaterWater (11 Jul 2005)

His practice wouldn't be on one of the roads off Leeson Street in Dublin by any chance as he sounds like the tosser that worked on a case for me? He would eventually return a phone call after a month only to tell me something that he had told me two months previously as "new news". He used forward the other sides correspondence to me, ask me to read it, and then to I had to instruct him what to do. When I said to him "are you not supposed to be advising ME" he would say over and over "I act on your instructions". It got really bad when I had to dictate letters to him and proof read them before they were posted.  I still have bad dreams about him and I would say that he upset me more than "the other side".


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## 90210 (11 Jul 2005)

Are you referring to the solicitor off Pembroke Street who is not very "Kean" , I used him once and what a GOB$hite , ended up going to the Law Society, moving the file without paying a penny for the bad service, but I have to say once the Law Society stepped in and I provided them with some off his ridiculous correspondence he totally pulled away from the matter.

Vanilla, one point I have with your feedback is that you keep mentioning paying a solicitor for the work they have done, that’s fare enough if they can prove it but quite often when you move away from the solicitor they always slam in a ridiculous fee and to be honest would you pay any other service provider if they treated you in the same way.



PIAB at the moment is working wonderfully and to be honest people are receiving higher awards through mediation and also significantly higher awards when they go to Court. It has cut out quite a good deal of bogus claims which was never an issue with some solicitors. But this increase in awards has all been introduced by the "Book of Quantum" which is on the PIAB website. Also remember any funds that your solicitor has at the end of the settlement will come from the award as PIAB and most insurers do not pay for legal fees unless the matter proceeds through to the old road.

I think you should read the PIAB site and call them on their helpline, at the end of the day it is not rocket science.


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## Vanilla (11 Jul 2005)

90210- you are entitled to ask for your costs to be taxed if you don't agree with the amount. In relation to PIAB, at the end of the day people who go to PIAB unrepresented are in my opinion doing themselves a disservice- it makes sense that having a legal representative who has experience in what and how to claim for various matters will be better than going before them unrepresented. Yes, you will have to pay your legal fees, but they will be earned.


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## MOB (11 Jul 2005)

Apologies for taking this thread off on a slight tangent, but the whole PIAB publicity machine interests me (as a practising solicitor) as an example of lawyer-bashing PR succeeding on a massive scale.  Can I also say, by way of perhaps lessening the strength of my comments, that personal injuries litigation was undoubtedly highly profitable for the legal profession.  However,  I don't practice in this area, and I genuinely won't feel much (if any) direct impact from the arrival of PIAB, so this is not a "sour grapes" bash.

From the PIAB website:

1.     "We deliver compensation without the legal costs and experts fees that add more than 46% on average to the cost of a claim"


2.         "It is significant that PIAB as a new state body will be self-funding and not reliant on any Exchequer funding. PIAB aims to achieve this objective by year end-2005. The funding of PIAB operations is met primarily by levying fees on Respondents (those who pay the compensation) and by running a flexible organisation. The way we manage our caseload ensures our expenditure is proportionate to claims activity."


People need to bear in mind that the  46% "legal costs and experts fees" figure referred to in quote 1 above includes costs incurred by Defendants (i.e. insurance companies).   I don't know whether the 46% figure was based on good research, but assuming it was, I think it would be fair to assume that at least 15% related to costs incurred by Insurance Companies, leaving a max of 31% attributable to claimants.

Insurance companies will still have claims departments, and will undoubtedly still use their own advisers and independent experts where they need to, just as they always did.  The difference now is that a claimant will now find it harder to do so.

In relation to PIAB becoming "self financing", I want to say this now - I do not believe that PIAB will significantly reduce the cost of the personal injuries compensation process.  I would love to re-visit this topic in, say, two years to see whether I am proved wrong.  And, of course, the devil is in the detail.  I will be keen at that time to see that the cost figures bandied about by PIAB include all of its establishment costs, future staff pension costs and so on, rather than just the annual operating cost.


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## 90210 (11 Jul 2005)

Taxing you outlays costs money and can mostly be a futile exercise as Taxing ads another cost to the total outlays , unless the prof fees are way over the top, then can you truly make use of this process. My point is that a job half done, is not done at all Vanilla and in my experience the Law Society did agree with me , but until the LS came into play you have to deal with a system set up by the legal profession that states otherwise.



Representation is essential for any claim, however we are into the whole PIAB independent argument versus the totally client bias process of the solicitor. I feel that Legal Representation is only one cog in the wheel and that pumping up or inflating a claim by some firms has certainly tarred the majority of PI law firms.

But essentially it is the Barristers and the Judge that have set precedent here and the Insurance companies but I aint getting into that rant, I feel all settlements should be ruled after mediation and that is what they are currently aiming for.


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