# Bank have declined consent of sale over €10k



## ellenb (24 Mar 2014)

Hey everyone, need some advice please, if any can be given. 

Long story short, we have been in MARP process for years, both out of work with 2 children. We knew we were going to lose the house by the end of 2012. In March or April of 2013 we put the house up for sale, still in negotiations with bank. By Feb of this year, bank concluded the process with a letter advising us of our options-repossession, voluntary sale or voluntary surrender. We were about to surrender as the house still had not sold but a few weeks later we received an offer of €140k. Mortgage is €200k. 

We went back to the bank with this and said we would agree to voluntary sale and we got permission to go sale agreed subject to getting consent of sale from the bank. We had to do another SFS and send in all the paperwork etc. They got an independant valuer out to view our home-we dont live in the house as the heating is broken-so this independant valuer viewed our home on his own. He valued it at €150k. 

Today got word that the credit committee have said no to selling because we are not selling for market value-a difference of €10k. My estate agent and everyone else involved are gobsmacked. My estate agent made the point that the independant valuer probably doesnt even know the heating system is broken-wouldnt be obvious on inspection-its a wood pellet boiler system and would cost in the region of €7 to €10k depending on what you wanted to spend, to replace it. Hence why we moved out. We couldnt possibly afford it-and knowing we were losing the house anyway....
The person in the bank says I have no right to appeal their decision. My choices are get the seller to pay more (my estate agent thinks this is extremely unlikely), voluntarily surrender or they will repossess. A PIP we have been talking with advised it could cost them €20k if we refuse to surrender and they have to repossess. Everyone thinks its madness. PIP suggested that perhaps the bank think we are selling to someone related to us and is calling our bluff. I have no idea who these people are and its unlikely they will increase their offer-there are houses for sale all over this county for alot less than ours. 

What can we do? Is there anything? I am assuming at this point we are out of the MARP process-but surely that cant mean we go from having many rights to none? We desperately want to sell it rather than give it back or have it taken off us-it is about the only bit of pride I have around the whole thing, that we can tell other people we sold it. Plus the people buying have been patient in waiting for the bank to come back to us-it has taken a long time.

Any informed advice is appreciated-please only reply if you have experience or knowledge around this area. Thanks in advance


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## WizardDr (24 Mar 2014)

Write directly to CEO immediately by registered post.

Strip out any emotional issue if you can. See if you can see breaches of the MARP and or CPC and flag these.

There is a rising property market - so that is what they think.

Sorry to hear that you may lose your house for this gap.

Let them know that this is causing untold stress and that all you are trying to do is meet obligations.

Suggest that if they believe market is rising then why don't we all hold off?


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Mar 2014)

Hi ellen .

Great to see you are eventually coming to a resolution of this.



> We desperately want to sell it rather than give it back or have it taken  off us-it is about the only bit of pride I have around the whole thing,  that we can tell other people we sold it.



I really don't think this should be a consideration. 

You have a fair shortfall. You will need to go for bankruptcy or a PIA. 

Drop them back in the keys. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2014)

ellenb said:


> We desperately want to sell it rather than give it back or have it taken off us-it is about the only bit of pride I have around the whole thing, that we can tell other people we sold it.


 
You can still tell people you sold it, how on earth will they know?  The bank will have to arrange all this and it's going to cost them a lot more than 10K so it's complete and utter madness.  I think your feeling of pride is misplaced, when you get rid of this sorry mess, and however it comes about, then you will feel a whole lot better.  

Here a one shot you could try, meet, don't ring, the valuer for the bank, explain to him the situation, particularly about the heating system and ask him nicely if he could change the price to 10K lower.  It just might work.  

Honest to goodness stories like this and banks would make one weep.  The bean counters are truly incompetent.


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## ellenb (31 Mar 2014)

Hey guys, the main reason we wanted to sell it was to control the amount we would have outstanding. My understanding is that if its a private sale, it is more likely to get a better offer than a house that is now under the banks control.

We spoke with a PIP who suggested a possibility of a deal with our creditors based on bank accepting our current offer. 

Dignity was also a factor but it was mainly as a way of avoiding having to go bankrupt-PIP felt a DSA could have been possible. 

However that is all out the window now. The buyer pulled out. The bank refused to budge and the buyer obviously got cold feet-they had already been waiting almost 2 months at that point. The last word with the bank when I told them the buyer had pulled out was 'sorry to hear that, so have you decided what you would like to do now? Voluntary surrender or let us repossess?'

When I asked about details of how long the process takes of either option, I was told he doesn't work in that department and he would give me the number of who to call-the freephone number for the mortgage arrears department-the number i know off by heart at this stage having rung so many times over the past 5 years. So back to a call centre again and having no one person looking after our case, despite us about to lose our home. 

I know banks do not possess a social conscience, I have experienced the lack of it for the past 5 years but its very obvious our government does not either.


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## Lucuma (1 Apr 2014)

Ellenb I can't believe how shoddily you have been treated by the bank. It's a disgrace!


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## Gerry Canning (1 Apr 2014)

Lucuma; 
You are correct , maybe it is just AAM ,but I am seeing too many cases were Mr Bank continues to lose the plot!

Could it be as simple as that Banks  continue to be incompetent.
Brendan suggested leave back the keys etc.
I wouldn,t be a fan of leaving back keys but maybe? 

Go and Tell your PIP to go for Bankruptcy or Pia as per Brendans comments.

Ps; Can you name the Bank?


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## cremeegg (2 Apr 2014)

ellenb said:


> The last word with the bank when I told them the buyer had pulled out was 'sorry to hear that, so have you decided what you would like to do now? Voluntary surrender or let us repossess?'



Have you fully explored another option.

Fight them every step of the way for repossession.

They cannot repossess your home unless a judge orders it.

A judge will listen to what you say. 

Your needs, children in school, work nearby, close to elderly parents etc.

Your reasonable efforts to deal with the situation, making genuine efforts, paying the bank what you can afford.

Prospects for your financial situation to improve.

If you have a convincing story, you might avoid repossession or at least postpone it.

Of course if you do go down this route with a hope to win you will have to make reasonable (within your means) payments to the bank. Look on it as rent!

Good Luck


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## 44brendan (2 Apr 2014)

Unfortunately you are likely to be the victim of a "myopic" decision maker in the Bank. In my own organisation we have decision makers who are pragmatic and can make a decision on a case like this taking account of all the facts. We also have those who tend to be totally closed to reasonable negotiation and cannot see the benefits of a reasonable solution. You appear to have been unfortunate in your decision maker rather than the Bank's policy. What you need now is your solicitor to write a letter to the Bank stating your co-operation in selling this property and the fact that the sale is both voluntary and open market. He should emphasis your co-operation to date and that if they fail to accept this "good faith" offer to voluntarly sell the property then you will withdraw your co-operation. Given your financial position you have little to lose by taking this approach and the letter should be sent to both the ASU department of the Bank and copied to the CEO's office. A Legal letter can work wonders in getting a solution!! Good Luck!


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## Bronte (2 Apr 2014)

44brendan said:


> In my own organisation we have decision makers who are pragmatic and can make a decision on a case like this taking account of all the facts. We also have those who tend to be totally closed to reasonable negotiation and cannot see the benefits of a reasonable solution.


 

I don't understand why the latter type of person would be in the 'resolutions' departments of banks???

ASU??  Arrears, section , unit????


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## Kine (2 Apr 2014)

Arrears Support Unit

Commercial rationale doesn't come into the thinking for many credit committees, my case is a prime example (as is the OP's) of where the road the bank want to go down gets the bank a *NIL* return over and above a sale of the property (NE = 50% of a 2007 top of the market mortgage!). My proposals recovered more debt while allowing me to move on with my life. 

I have said it before and I will say it again - it is a statistics game for the Banks, they have their targets from the Central Bank and if UB's recent press report is anything to go by, they are doing whatever it takes to get there. Translated - legal teams are busy sending out letters as these then fall into the "restructured" pots.

Simples!


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## 44brendan (2 Apr 2014)

To be fair, this is not a Bank policy decision either formally or informally. Decisions like this are not taken by Credit Committees, they are taken by analysts with individual discretions. That is why you can be lucky or unlucky in terms of who gets to assess your case. 
Bronte I note your comments and agree that this type of decision maker can cause problems for both bank and client. Unfortunately there are large numbers of square pegs in round holes. It's not a pleasant job for most of us, but there are those who do get some perverse pleasure in causing as many problems for clients as they can. This is probably true for all organisations, where a bureaucratic mentality tends to apply. 
As per my earlier comments above many of these people are bullies and can quickly row-back when faced with a stern letter from a solicitor or accountant.


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## Gerry Canning (2 Apr 2014)

Again ,I agree with most of  44Brendans comments;

There are excellent Bank officials but sadly not enough of them.
If anyone is caught with a Twit , all you can do is ensure you retain /itemize all correspondance. It means that before you end up in court some sensible official may look at it. Otherwise a judge will look at it .Experience shows judges are NOT happy to see incompetent Bank workings.


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## Nel (3 Apr 2014)

Hi ellenb, can you tell me where you secured the loan of €140K? I too am in difficulty. To cut a long story short, we bought a house in 2003 just outside of the City. In 2007 we decided to move back to the City as the commute etc was putting a serious strain on mine and my partner's relationship. We tried to sell this property for one year but it would not sell so we rented it out. We approached BOS and they gave us a loan for the new house (our other mortgage was with a different bank). We bought at the height of house prices in 2007. Unfortunately our relationship split up and he moved out. We found ourselves in financial difficulty with a huge mortgage. In 2010 we got a year moritorium in total. We made a payment in 2011 but none since then. In 2012 we offered them a monthly figure of €500. They asked us to restructure all loans which we did. They refused the €500. So I have saved this €500 every month into an account for them and asked the Ombudsman to review the situation. Certus cancelled two meetings with my solicitor. Eventually they met and we offered €800. Recently we met with them again and were informed that the interest only option is €550!! We can definetely pay that. So I lodged €600 into their account. However now the loan is getting transferred to Tanager this month. The current investigation with the Ombudsman is still ongoing but they have no rights to deal with Tanager. I am now in a position to pay more than €800 a month as my restructured loans are nearly paid off, and definetly do not want to lose my home. I am seriously stressed about it, and am on calming tablets. I know I am far from the only one dealing with this situation. I have been advised to try and seek some lending institution to give me a loan to pay Tanager, which I would need about €300,000, but I doubt any bank will go near me with my record. I still have the other house which is on an interest only option and we make no real profit from the tenant. I think we will voluntary surrender this house, that has been the legal advice anyway as it is in serious negative equity, as is the house I am in now. I am in a full time, permanent, pensionable job and am 36 years of age. Is there any hope for me to keep this house and come to a deal with Tanager? Maybe they will let me pay them over so many years? I am desperate here for some clarity? Can anyone advise me?


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## 44brendan (3 Apr 2014)

You are quite right about not getting a replacement loan elsewhere. If you want more specific advice you should start a new post and complete the financial summary for AAM users.


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## ellenb (6 Apr 2014)

Thanks everyone-44brendan unfortunately the sale has fallen through. My solicitor was in the process of writing up a letter but the sale fell through within 2 days of the bank declining the offer. Maybe your advice will help others in the same situation though.


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