# Why did ptsb sell my Buy to Let loan to Start with only one missed payment?



## PatrickJ (3 Aug 2018)

Received letter this morning.  Buy To Let tracker (1.1%) sold.  One missed payment i.e. €600.00

I have approx 18 years left on the mortgage.  Firstly, can they force me to sell the property and secondly can they take the tracker off me and / or put a receiver in place?  I have intentions of clearing the €600.00 this week.  

I'm concerned I'll be forced to sell.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> Received letter this morning. Buy To Let tracker (1.1%) sold. One missed payment i.e. €600.00



When did you miss the payment? 

It seems unlikely that ptsb included you in a sale portfolio back in May over one missed payment.  
Was there any other retructuring or history of arrears? 

It's terribly important to prioritise paying tracker mortgage loans over all other loans, including your family home.

Brendan


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## PatrickJ (3 Aug 2018)

Hi Brendan,

Yes, there was a history of arrears i.e. have failed to clear off the €600.00 after numerous promises. 

I take full blame.

Will I loose my tracker with Start?


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## PatrickJ (3 Aug 2018)

I missed the payment about 6mths ago.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

As it's a Buy to Let, they might appoint a Receiver. But I suspect that if you clear the arrears and stay clear, you should be ok.

I don't think that they can just take your tracker, but they might make withdrawal of the Receiver conditional on removing the tracker. I think that this is unlikely. But, as I have said, anyone with a tracker mortgage should make it an absolute priority so that there is absolutely no danger of losing it.

Brendan


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## Jim Stafford (3 Aug 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> As it's a Buy to Let, they might appoint a Receiver



A unique feature (very unique!) feature of many of the PTSB mortgages is that the fund can only appoint  a Rent Receiver on buy to lets.  In order to sell the property they need to get a Court Order for Possession, which is a slow and costly process.

The fund's inability to appoint a "normal" receiver helps open the door to negotiations.

Jim Stafford


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## PatrickJ (3 Aug 2018)

Can a receiver be appointed if all arrears are cleared payments kept up to date.

Furthermore if I pay the €600.00 now (which I am) can I prevent the sale or will PTSB consider keeping my loan on their books.


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## PatrickJ (3 Aug 2018)

Thanks Brendan for the work / help put into this thread; much appreciated.

Have I missed the boat or is there any chance at this late stage of renegotiating with the lender i.e. to keep the loan in their hands rather than Starts.  It's funny as only two weeks ago I spoke with the lender about clearing off the arrears but there was never any mention of the loan being sold.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

I would think that you have long missed the boat. 

Brendan


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## PatrickJ (5 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> Did you pay the 600 yesterday?  How much is the rent and how much are the monthly mortgage repayments.



Arrears have been paid and the loan is being paid in full P&I.  The mortgage payments are €600.00 on a 1.1% tracker.  Rental income €1300.00 pm


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## Bronte (5 Aug 2018)

So you’ve more than double rent to mortgage yet you’ve not paid your mortgage. You’re clearly not managing the rental income correctly and directing the money elsewhere. Hope to goodness this doesn’t mean you’ve let tax on it slide as well. What is the value to loan amount. You should do the money makeover thread.


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## PatrickJ (6 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> So you’ve more than double rent to mortgage yet you’ve not paid your mortgage. You’re clearly not managing the rental income correctly and directing the money elsewhere. Hope to goodness this doesn’t mean you’ve let tax on it slide as well. What is the value to loan amount. You should do the money makeover thread.


The reason for the arrears was a problematic tenant in the property who wasn't paying and who eventually left.  The lender was informed that no tenant was in place however I continued paying full P&I each month. 

No TAX issues however over a small sum of money I stand to lose a lot.  My own stupidly .  . .


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## PatrickJ (7 Aug 2018)

Hi Jim, 

In the case of a BTL with no arrears and no restructure in place can Start still look to appoint rent receivers and / or look to terminate a tracker rate?


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## Bronte (7 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> The reason for the arrears was a problematic tenant in the property who wasn't paying and who eventually left.  The lender was informed that no tenant was in place however I continued paying full P&I each month.
> 
> No TAX issues however over a small sum of money I stand to lose a lot.  My own stupidly .  . .



I do not see the relevence of you telling the bank you had no tenant in place.  They couldn't care less.  Do you not put money aside from the profit in rent to deal with vacant periods?  If not you need to start doing so.


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## PatrickJ (7 Aug 2018)

The bank insisted in knowing the reason for the arrears.  Yes, money is now put aside to deal with the vacant periods.  I have now pre-paid the mortgage in advance.


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## PatrickJ (9 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> _
> 
> 
> Bronte said:
> ...


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## RedOnion (9 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> Hi Brendan,
> 
> Yes, there was a history of arrears i.e. have failed to clear off the €600.00 after numerous promises.
> 
> ...





PatrickJ said:


> I missed the payment about 6mths ago.


Patrick,

Is there more to your story than you're disclosing?
Is this the same mortgage that PTSB said they were appointing a rent receiver on last December?

Are you saying you've never had mortgage restructured, or made any amendments to original contract, never had more than 1 missed repayment, and never entered into a PIA or defaulted on another loan with PTSB? And the single missed payment was recent?

It seems incredible that your loan was ever considered non performing in that case.


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## PatrickJ (9 Aug 2018)

Hi RO,

No defaults on any other loans with PTSB.

The history of the loan is . . . In approx. 2013 I called the lender to make a repayment on my loan.  I was asked by the person on the other end of the phone did I want to pay interest only on the loan for X amount of years as the loan was quite small. They said they would offer interest only option.  I took them up on their offer.

Out of the blue the interest only period ceased and I returned to full payments which have been met since save for the famous missed payment of approx. €600.00.  Yes, this was connected to the threat of the rent receiver in December. 

The arrears are now paid and the loan is in surplus funds.


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## RedOnion (9 Aug 2018)

In that case, it sounds like your loan was incorrectly flagged somewhere along the way. Maybe when it was changed to interest only in 2013 the agent flagged this was requested due to affordability.

There's no way a single missed payment would result in an account being treated as non performing by a bank, unless there were other factors.


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## blured (9 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ - you say the €600 payment was missed six months ago, but why were you threatened with a rent receiver in December before the missed payment took place?


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> Yes, there was a history of arrears i.e. have failed to clear off the €600.00 after numerous promises.



Hi Patrick 

I am very confused.  Do you mean by a history of arrears one small payment of €600 missed once? How long was it outstanding for? 

I don't think that this is the reason your mortgage was sold. 

I think it was because of the interest only period. That classified it as restructured.  All restructured buy to let loans, performing or not, were sold. 

If the account is clear, I don't think that there is any danger that the loan was sold. 


Brendan


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## PatrickJ (9 Aug 2018)

My mistake this is connected to the December threat of a receiver. 

My overall financial situation in the past was bleak but this is not the case now and all paying all my loan are being paid in full each month.


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## PatrickJ (9 Aug 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Patrick
> 
> I am very confused.  Do you mean by a history of arrears one small payment of €600 missed once? How long was it outstanding for?
> 
> ...



Hi Brendan,

Yes, by history of arrears I mean the €600.00.

I've already received a letter saying the loan is being sold.  I'll dig it out now and post the actual wording.


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## PatrickJ (9 Aug 2018)

From rereading the letter it basically says in summary that my loan is being transferred in approx. two months simply on the legal basis that there was a clause in my loan conditions that allows them transfer the benefit of the mortgage to any person or company in accordance with mortgage conditions.


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> The history of the loan is . . . In approx. 2013 I called the lender to make a repayment on my loan.  I was asked by the person on the other end of the phone did I want to pay interest only on the loan for X amount of years as the loan was quite small. They said they would offer interest only option.  I took them up on their offer.
> 
> Out of the blue the interest only period ceased and I returned to full payments which have been met since save for the famous missed payment of approx. €600.00.  Yes, this was connected to the threat of the rent receiver in December.
> 
> The arrears are now paid and the loan is in surplus funds.



Wait a second.

- Did you not have to sign a document about the interest only?
- Did it not have a time period?
- Why would the bank offer interest only?
- Why would you want that seeing as you had very good rent to pay down the capital and the interest?
- What was the start date of the interest only and the end date?
-  You missed a payment of €600 six months ago, which is February of this year, but why would you be threatened with a rent receiver in December? And still despite this small arrears of €600 you didn't pay it until this week. 
- Why did you miss it? You said you had a bad tenant, but you could surely have paid it anyway? You mentioned you had phoned the bank to tell them you couldn't pay them due to the tenant, so there was more going on here?


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2018)

Summary

- Arrears for months or more
- Interest only is a restructure
- Threatened with a rent receiver in December
- Many promises to pay the €600 but didn't act until the PTSB to Start sale
- OP admits it's his own fault
- Numerous phone calls with bank it appears, even down to explaining the issue with the tenants
- Didn't even know that interest only had come to an end

So this is not 'just' a one off issue, from the banks perspective and the heading of the thread is therefore misleading ....

Problem

1. Can Start take his tracker
2. Can Start appoint a rent receiver which would be dreadful for him, he'd no longer have control and if they hike the interest rate the bank will be getting more interest and the OP less rental profit - win win for Start
3. It appears the bank would not be able to sell the property - Stafford said it's difficult


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2018)

Rent receiver:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...-dispose-of-btl-property.206504/#post-1546315

- arrears of 1.5 K not € 600 as claimed on this thread
- information had to be dragged out of the OP
- was told by Burgess to stop playing ducks and drakes with bank in December
- Was told by Ravima to not mess around on a tracker
- And still did not clear the arrears until this week
- OP did not abide by arrangement with bank, and was so bad that he tried to put his own proposal to the bank which they refused as he did not abide by some kind of 'arrangement' 'restructuring'


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## Jim2007 (10 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> Received letter this morning.  Buy To Let tracker (1.1%) sold.  One missed payment i.e. €600.00
> 
> I have approx 18 years left on the mortgage.  Firstly, can they force me to sell the property and secondly can they take the tracker off me and / or put a receiver in place?  I have intentions of clearing the €600.00 this week.
> 
> I'm concerned I'll be forced to sell.



A history of your posts would suggest you are being extremely economically with the truth:



> Hi all, I need some urgent advise please. I received a letter stating that *a receiver is being appointed to my BTL in 10 days*. I called my lender and they declined my proposal to clear off the arrears balance.  The reason given was because *I failed to abide by a previous agreement put in place to clear the arrears*.


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2018)

This gets worse - back to 2016

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...yments-on-investment-tracker-mortgage.198565/

- problem since 2016 and on this thread he's acted like it's a trifling matter of one missed payment for a mere €600 and the bad bank has sold his mortgage
- He has a very valuable tracker, on a property with great rent
- messed around with the bank
- messed around with us on here
- the interest only was not out of the blue like the OP stated, instead it was an 'arrangement' by the bank because the OP had gone into difficulty due to a non paying tenant, and this arrangement the OP did not abide by
- was given a 2 year interest only, yet the OP was suggesting he had no idea that the interest only came to an end
- appears the tenant problem was sorted out and the OP didn't go back to bank to be put back on full repayment and that the bank instead were mad at him for what had been going on and they then insisted on the full rent and an effort to be made on the capital

Opinion

I had great sympathy for the OP, now my sympathy is with the bank that had to deal with this mess and did everything to try and help the OP and despite them offering him interest only he missed another €600 it appears, for months, promised and promised to sort it out and naturally enough the bank had had enough.

And who pays for this, we do, with higher interest rates.

Edit: Even back in 2016 I was on that thread and realised the OP was not giving us full facts. And he was given good advice on that thread.


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> My mistake this is connected to the December threat of a receiver.
> 
> My overall financial situation in the past was bleak but this is not the case now and all paying all my loan are being paid in full each month.



You make a lot of mistakes Paddy.  Fundamental mistakes. And half truths on this thread.  Why bother coming on here if you're not going to be honest.


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## Jim2007 (10 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> I had great sympathy for the OP, now my sympathy is with the bank that had to deal with this mess and did everything to try and help the OP and despite them offering him interest only he missed another €600 it appears, for months, promised and promised to sort it out and naturally enough the bank had had enough.



Have to agree with you, they are well shot of him.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Aug 2018)

Patrick J

Are you lying to us or just explaining yourself very badly? 

Brendan


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## PatrickJ (11 Aug 2018)

No lies have been told.  Some posts may have been tweaked in the past to avoid being recognised.  There is no benefit for me to lie when I am here for advise.  Furthermore my financial situation has drastically changed for the better.

For anyone else in the same predicament I confirm I made contact with the lender twice over the past 24hrs.  They have confirmed that I should have no issues with Start as I am paying full P&I and have cleared the arrears.  They asked me did I have any issues going forward and I told them I hadn't. 

It would appear my loan ended up in the pile because the arrears kept dragging along and I had made no attempt in clearing them.

They said Start will be bound by the same mortgage conduct as PTSB.


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## PatrickJ (20 Sep 2018)

I made a complaint to the lender and a full investigation ensued.  The summary of their findings: 

Acknowledge my loan is being paid in full and presents with no arrears.  In fact the loan has a prepayment balance and will be cleared in full on the date of maturity.  

Even though the loan is fully functioning it has been classified as non performing because of a past re-structure.

It would appear that it doesn't matter if you have managed to get your loan back on track - once it has been in arrears, restructured and/or restructured with a large payment falling due at maturity you are probably for the chopping block.

The lender is required by regulators to reduce the percentage of loans which are classified as non performing.  

Even if the lender (in my opinion has hastily sold a loan) they cannot remove loans from the legal agreement they signed with the purchaser of the debt.

All Central Bank of Ireland statutory codes relevant to the loan will continue to apply after it is transferred to the purchaser.


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