# ESB Standing Charge Night Heater - No Heaters



## susan12 (18 Feb 2008)

I bought a new house - old and in need of renovation.  Transferred over my previous ESB account to new house (no night heating at previous address).  Now being charged monthly standing charge - rang to complain and have it removed and told it will cost €181.  I stated that I never signed up for night heating, have no storage heaters and have gas fired central heating so couldn't use it if I wanted and they said that I have 'inherited' it from previous owner.  I said I wanted to see the contract where it states this and was told that by asking for my account to be transferred I had agreed to this.

To slightly complicate matters I had the meter moved from inside house to outside at a cost of €340 and at no point did anyone mention that there were in fact two meters there or two meters moved.  No one asked me if I wanted the second meter and when I asked about this I was told it wasn't for ESB to highlight this, I should have known what was in my house (i.e. I should have known what the previous owner had signed up for??)

Surely I can't be bound to a contract that I wasn't a party to?  Surely they can't insist that I pay this additional charge or continue to fork out the monthly charge?  I have checked my house deeds and see no reference to ESB as a party to the contract nor any mention of their poxy storage heaters.

Anyone come up agains this - very frustrating to deal with.  Basically I have mailed them to follow up complaint but their attitude is that everyone is in the same boat, I'm not the first and to basically get over it and pay up!


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## davidoco (18 Feb 2008)

*Re: ESB Standing Charge Night Heater - No Heaters!!!*

When you paid the €340 to have the meters moved you would have signed a fairly lengthy contract about the meter(s).  If you don't still have a copy (they usually send out two one for sending back), I’ll dig out one that I have to see if it mentions the disconnection charge.


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## huskerdu (18 Feb 2008)

*Re: ESB Standing Charge Night Heater - No Heaters!!!*

We had a similar situation. We bought a house with night heaters. We ripped them out and had to get the ESB to remove the second meter to avoid the standing charge. 
We were not charged for this visit. This was 5 years ago.


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## Paulone (21 Feb 2008)

Agree with Huskerdu - had storage heaters in the house which were the only form of heating for a couple of years until a boiler and rads were installed.

Read the two meters up to the point where the last storage heater was disconnected and simply rang the ESB to tell them it was no longer required and they came to take the meter away, free of charge.

If they can't show you the small print where it says you must pay all this, I'd formally dispute their right to charge you this by going through the formal complaints process. All the details should be on the bill to do this.


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## Mystic Oil (21 Feb 2008)

Hello Susan12

According to my bill, the ESB charge for nightrate metering is €0.022 per day, or 60 odd cent per month (plus VAT @13.5%), or less than €10 per year.

In return, you can use electricity during the night (for your 24/7 hour loads such as fridge/freezer) and you could run things like washing machines, tumble dryers, and immersion heaters at night for 7 cent a kWh (half the price of day rate). Seems like a bargain to me?


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## Hoagy (22 Feb 2008)

Mystic Oil said:


> Hello Susan12
> 
> According to my bill, the ESB charge for nightrate metering is €0.022 per day, or 60 odd cent per month (plus VAT @13.5%), or less than €10 per year.
> 
> In return, you can use electricity during the night (for your 24/7 hour loads such as fridge/freezer) and you could run things like washing machines, tumble dryers, and immersion heaters at night for 7 cent a kWh (half the price of day rate). Seems like a bargain to me?


 
That €0.022 charge is for a separate storage heating meter. The nightsaver standing charge is about €3 extra per month *plus *there is an extra cent on every daytime unit. If you don't have any storage heaters then you will lose money on nightsaver.


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## davidoco (22 Feb 2008)

Hoagy said:


> That €0.022 charge is for a separate storage heating meter.


 
My understanding is that there is a device that clicks over between the two meters at 11 or 12 pm.  That way all your electricity uses during the night are counted at the night rate.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Yes - that's correct. If you're on night rate then *all *electricity used between 2300-0800 (Winter)/0000-0900 (Summer) is via the night meter at the lower rate.


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## Hoagy (22 Feb 2008)

davidoco said:


> My understanding is that there is a device that clicks over between the two meters at 11 or 12 pm. That way all your electricity uses during the night are counted at the night rate.


 
Yes, that's dual tariff, or Nightsaver, with one meter switching over.
The standing charge for this is €21.11 per 2 months or app .346c per day.

However the charge mentioned by Mystic Oil of 0.022 per day relates to a separate storage heating meter, the standing charge is only €1.34 per 2 months. On this tariff only the storage heaters are on the night rate.

Since the increase of 1 cent per day unit came in, it's hard to see an advantage in Nightsaver at all.


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## Hoagy (22 Feb 2008)

If you're interested, the various tariffs are [broken link removed].


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Hoagy said:


> However the charge mentioned by Mystic Oil of 0.022 per day relates to a separate storage heating meter, the standing charge is only €1.34 per 2 months. On this tariff only the storage heaters are on the night rate.


Ah! I get you now...


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## susan12 (23 Feb 2008)

Thank you all for the replies.  I understand that the money involved is relatively little in terms of the monthly standing charge however over the course of my lifetime in this house I find it offensive to have to pay for something I didn't ask for, never signed up for, can't use even if I wanted to.  I can't believe the nerve of ESB asking for €181 to remove said meter especially given the €340 I had to give them to move the meter from inside to outside the house - by the way the builder did it all, the ESB simply arrived once the work was completed and literally flipped a switch.

As I mentioned I have made a formal complaint and believe they now have ten working days to deal with it.  If they don't I can then proceed to the Regulator which is where I think this is heading. 

I will keep you informed but I'm not optimistic!  Thanks again to all.


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## susan12 (4 Mar 2008)

So ten working days now have passed since I made a formal complaint.  I have read the Customer Charter on the ESB website and this is the timeframe they themselves have agreed to adhere to. 

Do I now just go to the Regulator?  Do I have to attempt to make contact one more time with ESB?  Reluctant to do so since last time spent about two hours on the phone being bounced form Billy to Bob only to be told to 'suck it up' for all intense and purposes.


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## regular (28 Oct 2009)

I have a similar issue. 

The history to date is that transferred to Bord Gais Energy in 2009 and randomly checked the bill, given the new service provider and noticed the standing charge for storage heaters (given that there are no storage heaters in the house) 
I queried this with Bord Gais who asked me to confirm the meter no. On confirming the no to Bord Gais was told that I needed to contact ESB Networks to have the meter removed. 
I contacted ESB Networks and was told that in fact the request must come from your service provider (Bord Gais). While on the phone to ESB networks they confirmed that the meter reading had not changed since as far back as their records went - Feb 2003 ( I bought the house in Nov 05).  
Having been advised that the request needed to go through Bord Gais Energy I recontacted them and was told that the charge for removal of the meter was €157 +VAT.  

I queried this with the CER  (Paul Byrne) and he indicated that the charge was €192 (inc VAT) reflecting the nearest description being a "charge to replace damaged meter". I challenged this insofar as the disconnection /removal of the meter was not the same thing. I reminded the CER representative that all charges must be approved by the CER and if a charge did not specifically relate to disconnection of the night meter it was not good enough to simply "go for the nearest description". The charge is either approved  by the regulator or it is not.  
I have now requested written confirmation from the CER as to where disconnection of a night storage meter falls within "charge to replace damaged meter". 

On a personal level it is very disheartening in terms of the attitude of the CER which seems to be "soak up the charge" rather than strictly interpreting whether the charge has been approved or not. I fear that the CER is already experiencing "captive bias" in terms of attitude towards legitmate customer concerns.  How can it be defendable position of the CER that an open ended contract with ESB resulting in a charge of circa€10 per annum when no storage heaters exist and the charge to stop the daily levy is circa €200 - i.e. 20 years of charge. This has to be a potential onerous contract within the terms of EU Consumer legislation with the possibility of repudiation of the contract.  I'm considering my legal position and the small claims court.


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