# Bank Draft for Payment - Safe?



## Johnon71 (11 May 2011)

Hi,

Read through the key post and some other threads.

I note that ideally you should get cash for a car sale or all bank draft / cheque to clear before handing over car, keys or paperwork.

My buyer wants to pick up car on Sat and offered personal cheque. I said I could only accept a Bank Draft and that I would keep log card until the bank draft has cleared. 

I thought this was the norm and that by keeping possession of the log card document that I retain title to the vehicle until the the draft clears. 

A bit worried now having read the key post and looking for reassurance.


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## PetrolHead (11 May 2011)

Cash is king in terms of security from your end. A bank draft is only issued if the funds are available so this should be safe too but they can be forged. To be fair though I think you would have to be damn unlucky to get caught out in this way. A personal cheque can, of course, be somewhat vulcanised.

It really comes down to your own comfort level with the purchaser. If he's serious about the car I can't see any reason why polite request to hold onto the car while the cheque clears should be met with anything other than understanding (so long as you tell him this before he arrives on Saturday morning with his driving gloves on). 

I seem to think there may be a way of paying for a cheque to be processed quicker (maybe others can confirm/deny this or you could call your bank). If the purchaser is really desperate for the car you could always offer this to him if he covers the cost.


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## Johnon71 (11 May 2011)

Many thanks for the advice on that one. 

What are your thoughts on my retention of the log card. Doesn't this mean the car remains my property until I post it off to Shannon? Which I could do as soon as the Draft clears.


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## AlbacoreA (12 May 2011)

It would have to be cash or a bank transfer IMO. 

[broken link removed]

Someone offering a personal cheque, and wanting to do it on a sat when the banks aren't open I'd be wary of.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 May 2011)

Doing the transaction on a Saturday is what makes this suspicious. 

Go with the buyer and the draft to the bank on which the draft is paid and get it verified. 

If it's an AIB draft and your bank account is in Bank of Ireland, it's not enough to go to Bank of Ireland. You must go to AIB and get them to verify the draft.

Brendan


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## Mpsox (12 May 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> Cash is king in terms of security from your end. A bank draft is only issued if the funds are available so this should be safe too but they can be forged. To be fair though I think you would have to be damn unlucky to get caught out in this way. .


 
Due to the nature of where I work, I'm aware of at least 1 person probably being caught out on a daily basis with a fraudulent draft for sales like this, and that's only relating to a couple of banks with less then one third of the market. You should never accept a draft without checking with the bank that it is correct and valid.


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## PetrolHead (12 May 2011)

Mpsox said:


> Due to the nature of where I work, I'm aware of at least 1 person probably being caught out on a daily basis with a fraudulent draft for sales like this, and that's only relating to a couple of banks with less then one third of the market. You should never accept a draft without checking with the bank that it is correct and valid.



Fair comment. I wasn't aware the fraud was this prolific.


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## Woodie (13 May 2011)

Never before thought that Bank Drafts would be a problem but what I have been reading recently some people have been scammed for considerable sums.   Seems like you shoud do your transaction by cash or direct transfer.  You could agree to go to bank together to verify draft, any genuine person will not find this a problem especially if you point out the warnings.


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## ziltwo (13 May 2011)

Also something that surprised me, on receiving a bank draft for the sale of my car; My bank is AIB and the Draft was BOI.  I still had to wait 4 working days for the draft to clear through my account. so I couldn't get near the money till then.  It taught me a valuable lesson.  cash is the only way to go and in this current climate, people are more acceptable when you ask for cash; anyone that objects... well I would be suspicious ....


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## Brendan Burgess (13 May 2011)

Cash has its risks as well. 

If someone buys a car from you for €10,000 cash, you should do the transaction in a bank, so that you can lodge the money immediately and not be walking around with €10,000 on your person. 

Nor do you want people to know that you have €10,000 cash overnight in your house. 

Brendan


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## mrblues (13 May 2011)

Be very careful about cash also - alot of forged high value notes in circulation at the moment. I am even starting to see notices in shops now stating that will not accept €100,€200 or €500 notes. I would want a draft and the bank it was drawn on to confirm it's legit. This can only be checked on a weekday so no way can you do the deal on a saturday.
Don't rely on retaining the log book/vlc - getting a replacement for that is easier than you think - motor trade does it all the time.


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## horusd (13 May 2011)

Last time I sold my car privately, the woman gave me several €500 notes.  I had never seen one for real before. Luckily they were fine, but it did strike me that it would be a nifty way to con someone.


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## PetrolHead (13 May 2011)

OK - just to recap - Bank notes can be fake and there is an inherent danger in having a lot of cash either on you or in your house.... Bank drafts can be forged..... cheques can bounce.... you could be de-frauded, left out of pocket, robbed or mugged.....

That's it... I'm locking my doors and boarding up my windows... leave alone trying to sell my car.....!!!!!


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## Woodie (13 May 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> OK - just to recap - Bank notes can be fake and there is an inherent danger in having a lot of cash either on you or in your house.... Bank drafts can be forged..... cheques can bounce.... you could be de-frauded, left out of pocket, robbed or mugged.....
> 
> That's it... I'm locking my doors and boarding up my windows... leave alone trying to sell my car.....!!!!!


 
 Caveat emptor, caveat venditor. I think it is a probably more a case of use your common sense otherwise you become totally paranoid. Despite some reported problems most people are kosher.
Usually you can smell a rat and if you are unsure what about doing like some car hire companies do and ask the person to come with a utility bill and driving license / passport. A con will probably think you are more bother than it's worth and move on to some other poor sucker.


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## Johnon71 (19 May 2011)

Thanks all for the contributions and advice.
In the end all went well and Woodie was right. Instinct rules.

All went well in the end and draft now lodged and cleared and buyer happy with his new car. 
Regards Johno


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## levelpar (21 May 2011)

> OK - just to recap - Bank notes can be fake and there is an inherent danger in having a lot of cash either on you or in your house.... Bank drafts can be forged..... cheques can bounce.... you could be de-frauded, left out of pocket, robbed or mugged.....
> 
> That's it... I'm locking my doors and boarding up my windows... leave alone trying to sell my car.....!!!!!



They will probably rob the blinking car when you are asleep


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## marksa (21 May 2011)

at some point in the not too distant future, what you should be able to do is pay be electronic payment using a smart phone app in front of the person buying the car - so they see you make a payment into their account and they, in turn, verify the receipt into their account via their smart phone. 

The problem at the moment is that for private person to private person, credit transfer is just not instant enough unless there can be someone bright enough to come up with some intermediary/escrow type of system... a business opportunity for someone?

As long as most Irish people continue to rely on the antiquated systems of BoI/AIB/PTSB the payment systems are just too slow. And by that I mean electronic payment systems for credit transfers. It can take 4 days to make a credit transfer from my NIB acc to BoI account, whereas to a Rabo account it is following day impying the problem is in BoI. NIB and Rabo like most large multinational banks have excellent payments systems and eBanking. It is our local banks who are broke and can't afford to upgrade their technology.


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## computerman (22 May 2011)

A friend reciently was selling a suite through one of the free trader sites.  She had a few time wasters.
Eventually a couple showed up liked the furniture and every one agreed a price and delivery.
Cash 100 quid and buyer would arrange transport. (this was on a monday).
on the wed the buyer contacted the seller and said that they dont like carrying cash (100 quid!!!) and could they do an online transfer. 
Seller thought no problem, as the only info required was sort code and account number. (No personal info).
Buyer contacted seller on wed night and told them that the transfer had been made, but as it was aib to boi, it might take three days to go through. buyer requested that the seller phone the buyer when the money appears in the bank account.

Friday afternoon seller sees money in the account and contacts the buyer who in turn arranges to call out on sat. to collect.

SOFA SO GOOD 

Suite taken away on Sat, everybody happy.

Tuesday morning, seller gets letter from the bank, bounced cheque....

Buyer did not do an online transaction, instead waited till friday to lodge a dodgy cheque.

So in essence - as was said before cash is king.


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## marksa (22 May 2011)

computerman said:


> Friday afternoon seller sees money in the account ....
> Buyer did not do an online transaction, instead waited till friday to lodge a dodgy cheque.


 The entry to the account would have a narrative of a cheque lodgement as opposed to incoming credit transfer. Also, the value dating of the cheque lodgement would not have been same day. But interesting all the same - one should be careful to look at the payment type into your account! thanks for the interesting example...


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