# Bank Loyalty. Any reason not to switch current account from AIB to KBC?



## heisenberg (8 Feb 2015)

I was recently considering switching my current account, credit card and regular saving account to KBC from AIB. I have been with AIB since I was a teenager. I have always paid my credit card off in full every month, never had an overdraft and have had a loan with them in the past with all repayments paid on time and in full.

I am just concerned that by switching I am losing any loyalty I have built up over the years. Is there any benefit gained from staying with a bank for a long period of time for things like future loan applications or mortgages? Or am I wise to switch to whatever bank is offering the lower fees and better interest rates?


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## Dermot (8 Feb 2015)

There is "ZILCH" loyalty points credited to you by a bank nowadays. You are just an account no. Go for your best deal and for convenience,


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## Boyd (8 Feb 2015)

Agreed. Get out now.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2015)

Hi heisenberg 

What is the reason for switching?  How much will you benefit from it? 

How much are your current account fees? It's extraordinary how many people get excited by this but yet don't worry about the mortgage rate they are paying. 

If you ever need a mortgage, and you have a long history with the bank, I would imagine that that would count for something. For example, if you are trying to get an exception to the 80% LTV rule,  you would have a better chance if they can see a long history of living within your means. 

But you can put your deposits anywhere.  There is very little advantage in having them in the same bank, and a disadvantage, if you have over €100k. 

Brendan


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## thedaddyman (9 Feb 2015)

From a practical perspective, are you ever going to have a need to walk into a branch to do any business, for example, lodging cash? That may need to be factored in given the lack of branches KBC have around the country.


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## Boyd (9 Feb 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If you ever need a mortgage, and you have a long history with the bank, I would imagine that that would count for something. For example, if you are trying to get an exception to the 80% LTV rule, you would have a better chance if they can see a long history of living within your means.



Surely they can see that from your account history with bank X? You have to provide current account statements anyway. There was an article in Sunday Times two weeks ago indicating this fear of not getting a loan/mortgage was a major reason in current account switching inertia. IMO its a mugs game paying fees on the off chance it _might _help you down the road. "A bird in the hand....." springs to mind.



thedaddyman said:


> From a practical perspective, are you ever going to have a need to walk into a branch to do any business, for example, lodging cash? That may need to be factored in given the lack of branches KBC have around the country.


Yeah this is a concern for some people. I use PTSB which mitigates this somewhat as they have more of a high street presence than KBC.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2015)

username123 said:


> IMO its a mugs game paying fees on the off chance it _might _help you down the road.



It's a mug's game getting bothered about paying a reasonable price for a service.  OP - how much are you paying in banking charges every year? It's a very small amount of money.  

Are you satisfied with the service?  If you are not satisfied with the service, then move. 

Thousands of people moved to ptsb for free banking and ended up paying over 6% on their mortgages while AIB and BoI were charging 3%.  

It's better to focus on saving money where things are very expensive. 

There is something odd about bank charges. People understand them because they are expressed in absolute terms e.g. €85.67 . But when it comes to mortgage rates, they don't understand them and so don't shop around. 

80 people have lodged complaints with the Ombudsman over the loss of their ptsb tracker mortgage.  Around 2,000 are affected.  I would love to know how many of those 1,980 who did nothing about their mortgage rate have switched banks accounts because of the charges.


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## Bronte (9 Feb 2015)

Don't believe a word of loyalty being of any use.  You are just a number as another poster mentioned.  Two years ago I switched to KBC, because they were offering me a very attractive mortgage interest rate, my own bank would not offer me anything similar despite banking with them for more than a decade.  Not sure how KBC are in Ireland but I'm really happy with their service and I can email the person who gave me the mortgage with anything I might need.  A really efficient personal service.


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## Boyd (9 Feb 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Thousands of people moved to ptsb for free banking and ended up paying over 6% on their mortgages while AIB and BoI were charging 3%.



Can you not leave mortgage where it is and move current account?


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2015)

username123 said:


> Can you not leave mortgage where it is and move current account?



Yes, you can. But many people didn't even have mortgages. They moved to ptsb long before they took out a mortgage and then went to them for their mortgage without shopping around. 

Brendan


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## Boyd (9 Feb 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Yes, you can. But many people didn't even have mortgages. They moved to ptsb long before they took out a mortgage and then went to them for their mortgage without shopping around.
> Brendan



Well in fairness, then thats a completely different problem.


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## heisenberg (9 Feb 2015)

My quarterly fees are usually around €15, which isn't a lot I suppose.

I try to use my credit card as much as possible and thought I'd take advantage of KBC's credit card with their 1% cash reward offer.

Plus, there is an extra percent to be gained in their savings account when you hold a current account with them.

I thought it was worth considering but was hesitant after being with AIB for so long.


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## Bachelor Boy (11 Feb 2015)

I'm no expert on this type of thing.  But IMO banks really don't do goodwill anymore in my opinion.  I think the whole show a good saving record went out in the late 80's when proper competition entered the market.  Most banks do credit checks will be to see if you have any loans outstanding, any debit, what your salary is, what your saving are if any and other basic checks such as have you ever been declared bankrupt etc.  They do that via the credit bureau.  You will need to provide 12 months of bank statements when doing a mortgage application.  If you are planning on getting a mortgage soon e.g in the next 12 months, you could keep or manually print the last 6 months of statements and then apply in 6 months time.  

As poster #5 said bear in mind convenience.  KBC bank I think have 10 branches in Ireland 7 of which are in Dublin.  You'll need to find out how easy it is to get money out of your deposit account and weigh up on how easy it is to do transactions.  How do you access you cash via other banks ATM's etc given they have only 7 branches etc.  Whether your bank would be able to provide an exception to the 80% LTV rule I don't know if that is even possible.  

Overall my point is, don't be afraid to move banks if you are unhappy with the fees or service.  After all you wouldn't be afraid to shop somewhere else if your local shop was more expensive than the one down the road.  You may end up staying with your current bank for another 10 years and they won't give you  a loan anyway.


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## Skyfall (17 Feb 2015)

I've toyed with the idea of switching banks also, although I can't say anything by way of complaint or dissatisfaction in my dealings with my current bank, so will probably stay put.
The one concern I would have with "new kids on the block" such as KBC is that at some stage in the future they could do a "Danske" or an "RBS" and pull out of Ireland,  leaving customers high and dry and having to revert to one of the big "pillar" banks.


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## jim (17 Feb 2015)

Skyfall said:


> The one concern I would have with "new kids on the block" such as KBC is that at some stage in the future they could do a "Danske" or an "RBS" and pull out of Ireland, leaving customers high and dry and having to revert to one of the big "pillar" banks.



so what if they do? what would be the actual exact implications for customers -positive or negative?


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## MrEarl (18 Feb 2015)

Skyfall said:


> I've toyed with the idea of switching banks also, although I can't say anything by way of complaint or dissatisfaction in my dealings with my current bank, so will probably stay put.
> The one concern I would have with "new kids on the block" such as KBC is that at some stage in the future they could do a "Danske" or an "RBS" and pull out of Ireland,  leaving customers high and dry and having to revert to one of the big "pillar" banks.



Hello,

Speaking as a former customer of Danske Bank (who paid fees for a "prestige account"), while I was terribly disappointed to see them leave (simply because I really liked their service, online banking etc.), it was ultimately quite easy to replace them as a Bank.

I moved to PTSB for the free current account banking.  I believe in the old saying, "what you pay for, is what you get" and to a large extent I think this holds through with the PTSB.  The Bank's online facilities are not as good as those previously offered by Danske.  Likewise, I don't think the PTSB are great when it comes to anything other than providing basic banking services, with their range of services more limited than other Banks for example.  However, that said, I pay no fees for my day to day banking.

Personally, I do not believe there is any value in customer loyalty anymore.  In the old days, the local Bank Manager called the shots when it came to who got a loan etc.  now decisions are made in central locations and usually by credit staff who have no contact with the customer.  Likewise, I think recent years have proven that the Banks wil do what is good for them, not necessarily their customers - whether it is the opening or closing of rural branches, or the granting of loans, or even the calling in of loans previously granted.

In my view, banking is now simply about each of us trying to get the very best value we can, for the service we want.  When our current provider fails to provide the level of customer service or charges we are satisfied with, we move on... just like with a telephone service, electricity supply etc.

KBC have been in Ireland for 40-years, [broken link removed] and while they are relatively new to the retail banking market here in Ireland (they have experience in other countries) and are following some of the steps previously taken by Hallifax or PostBank in times past, I think the fact that they stuck it out throughout the recent recession when other banks left is something to keep in mind.

Also, there is far less competition in retail banking these days, with only AIB, BoI, PTSB & UB competing with KBC for provision of the basic range of retail banking services. As such, they probably stand a better chance of getting a reasonable market share, then the likes of PostBank, Danske Bank, ACC Bank, Hallifax all did, when they were aggressively competing with AIB, BoI & Ulster for example.

If we want competition in the banking market, then I think we need to give the likes of KBC & PTSB a try !

Finally, just for the record, I have no vested interest in promoting any of the Banks mentioned


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## trasneoir (20 Feb 2015)

heisenberg said:


> I try to use my credit card as much as possible and thought I'd take advantage of KBC's credit card with their 1% cash reward offer.


Start small with the StanJames.com free £10 bet. Also hotel rooms in Vegas are deadly cheap, you should definitely take advantage of their naivety 

KBC's house is much bigger than mine. I assume they know what they're at.


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## Gordon Gekko (20 Feb 2015)

Having been a Danske customer, I'm wary of getting into bed with KBC.

How committed are they to Ireland?

Think of all the people having issues with the exits of BOSI and Danske.

The Irish banks have numerous faults, but at least we know that they're here to stay.


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## Lightning (21 Feb 2015)

Gordon Gekko said:


> How committed are they to Ireland?



KBC have publically stated that they will "review strategy" for their Irish operation in 2016. 

Given the massive recent level of investment that KBC have put into their retail operation it would be a major volte-face for KBC to exit. 



Gordon Gekko said:


> The Irish banks have numerous faults, but at least we know that they're here to stay.



Far from a cast iron guarantee that Permo will be around indefinitely.


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## MrEarl (21 Feb 2015)

CiaranT said:


> KBC have publically stated that they will "review strategy" for their Irish operation in 2016.
> 
> Given the massive recent level of investment that KBC have put into their retail operation it would be a major volte-face for KBC to exit.



While I personally believe KBC are staying in town, you can't help but remember Hallifax and compare strategy to that being adopted by KBC.




			
				CiaranT said:
			
		

> ...Far from a cast iron guarantee that Permo will be around indefinitely.



Ironically, they would be a good fit for KBC, imho.


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## Lightning (21 Feb 2015)

MrEarl said:


> Ironically, they would be a good fit for KBC, imho.



Yeah, although some prior reports say the cost of integrating the systems makes such a merger / acquisition prohibitive.


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## jim (21 Feb 2015)

if kbc were to leave ireland what would be the implications for customers??


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## MrEarl (21 Feb 2015)

CiaranT said:


> Yeah, although some prior reports say the cost of integrating the systems makes such a merger / acquisition prohibitive.




I wonder about some of the figures you hear doing the rounds for "integrating" systems and ask myself if sometimes, it might just be easier to transfer all the data on a once off basis onto the better system, then run all accounts from it (obviously, dip testing the data for accuracy, then running both systems for a while etc).

Anyway, sorry we are gone off topic.




jim said:


> if kbc were to leave ireland what would be the implications for customers??



Just the same as when Bank of Scotland / Hallifax left, or Danske Bank.  Ultimately, everyone would have to find an alternative bank to facilitate their day to day banking, while the likes of term loans, property loans etc. would just run their natural course (most likely, managed on behalf of KBC by a-n-other, such as Pepper), or perhaps in time, the loans could be sold on to another party, who would then replace KBC as your lender.

The fact that KBC are investing, rolling out new products and opening branches/hubs, with things in Ireland now picking up, I doubt they will leave.  If they were going to exit the market, I expect they would have done it well before now.


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## Lightning (22 Feb 2015)

MrEarl said:


> I wonder about some of the figures you hear doing the rounds for "integrating" systems and ask myself if sometimes, it might just be easier to transfer all the data on a once off basis onto the better system, then run all accounts from it (obviously, dip testing the data for accuracy, then running both systems for a while etc).



The problem is that a 'new system' can rarely can do everything that the old system can, meaning huge IT cost to develop the new system. Also, banks systems are not just one system. They are normally dozens of intra connected systems, especially at a retail level. Not easy to replace or transition without incurring massive costs. 

As reported, some of the Irish retail banks looked at acquiring Halifax current accounts, IT costs is one of the reasons that they choose not to.


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