# General Power of Attorney



## desk (11 Feb 2009)

Hi,
Does anyone know where I can get an Irish template for general power of attorney? We have a problem where an enduring power of attorney was set up with one power of attorney rather than three powers and our father's solicitor wants to charge us the full amount to redo it ( in fairness it is possible that there was a breakdown in communication). Our Father is still corpus mentis but this is a lot of hassle and the solicitor wants to talk to him before he will do it properly. I thought if he wanted to sign a general power of attorney we could sort out this mess for him. We want to change solicitors because frankly we do not thrust him. Can our father just sign a letter, get it witnessed and ask the solicitor to hand his file over to a new solicitor or can this all be done with a new solicitor? Would appreciate any help.

Thanks


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## blackbrera (11 Feb 2009)

Let's get this straight.

You acknowledge that the Enduring Power of Attorney is not the way you wish it to be and that this is at least partially due to your not having communicated effectively to your Solicitor.

In your question, you make some statements which make it perfectly clear that you have no idea of the difference between a Power of Attorney and an Enduring Power of Attorney, yet you want to do a DIY job.  Completing a general Power of Attorney does not achieve the same as an Enduring Power.

Of course the Solicitor wants to talk to your father.  Your father (not any of his children) is being asked to sign a document which gives others the pwoer to deal with matters on his behalf.  He needs independent legal advice from someone acting in his interest who is aware of the legal issues arising.  

This is not something to save money on.

It can all be done with a new solicitor, but do have your father see a solicitor.


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## desk (11 Feb 2009)

I do actually know the difference between enduring and general power of attorney. The enduring POA will only be activated once my father is no longer corpus mentis and I and my sister will be able to revoke it. The problem is with the EPOA is that it only names one attorney when it was meant to name three ( I was not at original meeting). The solicitor is being extremely slow and difficult  and wants to recharge us to do it right therefore I was wondering if getting a general POA or specific POA just to deal with the solicitor would be a good way to sort this out without stressing my father or else just go to a new solicitor with him. I must stress that we do not trust this solicitor therefore we do not want him manipulating my father as we think he has already.


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## blackbrera (11 Feb 2009)

- It only names two attornies, but you want three?

Can I ask why you want three?  Will that not just make it unwieldly to get agreement on anything?  Does your father want three, or do you?

- "I and my sister will be able to revoke it"  What do you mean by this?  You and your sister have no power to revoke an Enduring Power of Attorney.  If you are the notice parties you can object to it being registered but only the court can register it or revoke it.  Maybe you mean something else?

- You say the solicitor is being slow and awkward and wants to recharge for doing it right.  It doesn't appear that it's been done wrongly.  You now want it done differently but that doesn't mean that there is anything actually wrong with the way that it's done.

- The easiest thing is just to go to a new solicitor.  Explain the position to him/her and have your father do a new Enduring Power of Attorney if that's what he wants.

Put yourself in the current solicitor's shoes.  He's seen your father, presumably done as was instructed in that meeting and now a son who wasn't at that meeting wants a document changed which is really not that son's business.  Your father is the client, not you.  If communication has broken down, just go elsewhere.

- It's Compos Mentis, not Corpus Mentis.

Good luck with this


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## McCrack (11 Feb 2009)

Absolutely blackbrera you're spot on.

O and OP it's called compos mentis (of sound mind).


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## sinall (12 Feb 2009)

Whether you go to a new solicitor, or deal with the original solicitor, it would be standard procedure for the solicitor to want to speak to your father to make sure that this is what he actually wants.

You make reference to the fact that you are suspicious that the solicitor might have manipulated your father, but the solicitor has to ensure that nobody else is manipulating your father and that he is aware of what he is signing!


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## WaterSprite (12 Feb 2009)

blackbrera said:


> -
> 
> - "I and my sister will be able to revoke it"  What do you mean by this?  You and your sister have no power to revoke an Enduring Power of Attorney.  If you are the notice parties you can object to it being registered but only the court can register it or revoke it.  Maybe you mean something else?



Suspect OP means "invoke", not "revoke" here


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## desk (13 Feb 2009)

I should have mentioned from the start that my father suffers from Alzheimers. The reason we are all so worried is that he will offer money to anyone and no longer knows the true value of money. He has taken quite a large amount of money from his credit union already and we cannot account for a lot of it. Thankfully the credit union are aware of this and now we have a stop on this account. The CU also contacted his solicitor about this and he failed to mention it to any of the family, the post office  contacted the solicitor also but again he never contacted anyone in the family. I will talk to my father about a new solicitor this weekend as everyone of my siblings thinks the solicitor is incompetent. It is no use saying that my father can really take this fully on board though some days he can be quite lucid. If the solicitor talks to my father and decides he is non compos mentis and registers the EPOA what would happen if we object would my father become a ward of court?


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## mf1 (13 Feb 2009)

This is a truly ghastly situation. And I'm not just talking about (a) the father  (b) the solicitor (c) the Alzheimers and (d ) the helpful family members who are oblivious  to the serious legalities of the situation. I'm talking about the complete misapprehension of everyone's role in this. 

This family need to sit down with the father's doctor and establish - truly- whether he is compos mentis. This is very difficult and very stressful for all concerned. 

If the father  is compos mentis then he is capable of instructing a new solicitor. I don't believe ( and this is  on the very limited facts available) that he is. I personally as a practising solicitor would resolutely  refuse to take the fathers instructions. I would perhaps deal with the situation if I was personally acquainted with all the parties but not otherwise. And even then I would have huge difficulties if I felt that the father was simply trying to please  everyone without any grasp of what was going on. 

Unless the solicitor is named as one of the Attorneys , I simply cannot understand why the post office and   the Credit Union are contacting him at all. 

It is not for the solicitor to register the EPA - it is a matter for the Attorneys. 

If all is as OP says it is I think its time to either register the EPA or go the Wards of Court route. 

The time for amending anything is gone. 

mf


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## putsch (13 Feb 2009)

If your Dad can't manage money its likely that he can't make a new EPOA thus it is fortunate that he has already made one. 

Who is the appointed attorney under the EPOA? Are they still alive and willing to act? Who wants 3 attornies rather than 1? Is it your Dad? He is the only person who's views can be taken into account not yours or any of your siblings. Now if your Dad has already lost competence then the EPOA should be registered and the attorney should take over your Dad's affairs.

In practice it is best have only 1 attorney with a back up if they die or can't take it up. 3 attornies would make it impossible to act on a day to day basis.


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## blackbrera (24 Feb 2009)

OP,

Very sorry to hear that your father has developed full blown Alzheimers.

Can I suggest that you contact the Alzheimer's Society of Ireland or if you're in the West, Alzheimer's West?

These organisations are very well versed in all the difficulties that can arise and will likely be in a position to give you advice based on a wider view of the situation, other than the purely legal.

Having said that, I wouldn't disagree with the practical advice given here.

One last thing.  It's obvious that your concern here is for your father.  But be conscious that you need to take care of yourself as well.  It's a long road dealing with Alzheimers and you need to be aware of your own needs if you are to be of any help to the person suffering.

Best of luck.


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## jem (25 Feb 2009)

i understand your situation totally being in the same situation myself with my mother. Luckly we know our solicitor for many many years and he has been great, explaining to my mother in the simplist possible way what she was signing.


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## desk (25 Feb 2009)

Thanks for your mail. It seems to have resolved itself now. The solicitor is getting his act together and we are going ahead with the original EPOA. Sometimes in large families it is hard for everyone to agree but we are getting there.


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