# Squatter's Rights



## QQQ (18 May 2005)

Hi,

    beside my father's house is a disused laneway. The laneway has been disused since the house was built in 1958 at which point my parents bought it. I can not find out who owns the laneway (definitely not the council's) and runs alongside the semi-detached house. To the rear of the laneway is a cliff and a river. The laneway is not lit and is not paved and is over grown with trees and prickly bushes. I want to takeover the laneway, without my father's knowledge, so that at some point (when I ultimately inherit it) I will have access to it. My father has no need nor want for it and likewise for the neighbour at the othr side of the lane. How can I best take it over? Someone suggested applying for Squatter's Rights ... if so how do I do that?

Thanks!


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## tonka (18 May 2005)

use as your own for 12 years


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## ClubMan (18 May 2005)

Does the Land Registry/Registry of Deeds not have any information to clarify the ownership of the title to the land in question?


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## QQQ (19 May 2005)

Tonka,

     how would you go about proving that you are using it as your own for 12 years? When would the clock start? In truth I have been taking care of it (trying to coppice the trees to prevent the them becoming too high) but how do I go about proving that?

ClubMan,

    I checked with both of these and I couldn't find the registration. Staff helped but admitted that it can be extremely difficult to find ownership of laneways. 

QQQ


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## 90210 (19 May 2005)

I think you have answered you own question , it is very difficult to find the rightful owner to a laneway.
To be honest you now have access to the laneway , no one can deny you that but so too does your neighbour and yo cannot deny him wither.Laneways are usually guarded by Right of Way, Easements and Estoppel's law and their origination and usage can go back centuries.

Squatters Rights only applies to a particular piece of property if you have resided their for a period of no less than 12 years. Even at that point you still have to obtain what is called Adverse Possesion , this is the process of raising the deeds, paperwork and title. This is costly and time consuming and something you neighbour will have a say in.

Can you tell me for what purpose do you want the laneway for?
In what Borough or Council does it exist
What is the lane way currently used for and does any doorways or entrances open onto the lane.

The best solution and the easiest is to try and get the Council involved and for your Dad to half the laneway with the other neighbour and then close it off.
But me thinks you are being a little bit greedy , why do you not want your Dad to know about this ?


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## Vanilla (19 May 2005)

You will more than likely be able to find out the ownership of the lane way if you are prepared to spend a bit of money on it. Employ a solicitor and an engineer. They'll do it for you. Whether you could establish squatters rights on it is doubtful. But having established the ownership you may be able to buy it either now or in the future and you may be able to get anyone with a right of way over it to discharge their right.


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## QQQ (19 May 2005)

90210,

    I don't want to involve my father in the discussion because I don't want to be seen to be making plans for after his departure (it is a sensitive issue)., nonetheless I do want to make plans for me and my family. 

   My neighbour repeatedly says he doesn't want the laneway and that my father is welcome to have it. 

   I want the laneway to widen my driveway and to make a side passage into my the back garden. 

   Regarding Right of Way I don't know if there sia  right of way BUT according to my father the lane has been blocked off at both ends since he bought the house from the builder. There is no opening into the lane and the council doesn't own it (have confirmed it with them). Furthermore the lane terminates at a cliff!


Vanilla,

    yes I'll employ a professional to act on my behalf. Can you be deemed 'resident' in a laneway for the purposes of Squatter's Rights or is it just a question of maintaining it?


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## Vanilla (19 May 2005)

Even if a right of way is not exercised, this does not mean that it can be extinguished. There is established case law on this very point. So the fact that it is blocked off is to a large extent irrelevant. 


To establish squattors title successfully, I believe you would have to do something like for e.g. permanently block it off - put a wall or fence around it. Plant things in it. Have a vegetable garden in it. Plant trees. Put animals in it. Put a shed in it. Keep dated photographic evidence. Put a locked gate on it etc etc. In other words you have to maintain visible acts of ownership.

This still doesnt stop anyone who has a right of way over it, coming back after 12 years and demanding to exercise it.

So I believe your first port of call is to find out who the owner is, and find out who has a right of way over it. The most straight forward thing to do is to try to buy it, but if you cant or dont want to you may have to at least have those who have a right of way over it discharge their rights.


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## 90210 (19 May 2005)

I agree with your points Vanilla but sometimes it is not that easy to find out whom or who owns the property, also then you are into deeds and parent deeds, Landlords etc etc. That it why it would make a big difference depending on your area as a great proportion of land in Dublin was released from the original English Landlords, way back when we were under their rule.However Country land seems to be a little bit more simplified to follow but it depends on your council and records . If the house was built in 1958 and the neighbours house similarly, you would have to go back to that time and see who owned the land and the ground before the buildings , should be on your fathers deeds etc, although that date does pre exist the Planning and Development act of 63 or 64 ish,  check with your local authority.

If the lane is blocked off and has no entrances or exits well then the only parties who could possible use it is you, your neighbour or the builder.

But you still have to go back to the original plans to find out who owns the title of the ground then work upwards from that. But if the builder blocked of the lanes it is unlikely that any ROW exists, it seems that it is just a piece of ground rather than a ROW or Easement.

Like Vanilla states you need to go back and do some searching first.Good Luck


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## Vanilla (19 May 2005)

I agree its not always easy to establish ownership which is why I mentioned that to successfully do so, one may have to employ an engineer as well as legal advice. If its registered land its straightforward - subject to engineers advice if the area is very small. If unregistered, then you are looking at getting a valuation office certificate, and appropriate searches.

It has been described as a 'lane' rather than as a strip of ground, which makes me believe there is likely to be a private ROW or public ROW somewhere in the background.


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## QQQ (19 May 2005)

I am 90% sure it's unregistered land so I will go about getting a valuation office certificate, but how do I do that? Does that not presuppose that I know the owner and that I consequently know whom to pay? The laneway was originally there for the purpose of putting in a transformer (according to locals) but the builders changed the location of the transformer at the last moment after my father's and neighbours houses were built. 

   I don't know why I would need an engineer.

   The deeds won't mention the laneway and even if I can find the record in the Registry of Deeds for the builders' purchase of the land from the land owner then if the purchase includes the area of the current laneway should I just approach the builder to buy the land from him?

Incidentally the land is in Dublin.

Thanks for the informed help.


QQQ


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## Vanilla (20 May 2005)

I didnt want to go in to this, as it is complicated, but as you are very persistant!  The easiest way to do all of this is to check your fathers title. This should show whether its registered or unregistered. But if you cant or wont, then:
You say you are 90% sure that the property is unregistered. Time to be 100% sure. Get an ordnance survey map of the laneway. Take a photocopy and store the original away safely. Then mark the laneway and take it to the land registry and ask them to do a mapping search. They will tell you if it is unregistered or if its registered, who owns it. 
Assuming it IS unregistered, doing a registry of deeds search on the index of names for the builder and previous land owner will only give you a date of a deed- even if you subsequently apply for a copy memorial of that deed, there will be no map attached - whereas a copy of your fathers title would probably contain it.

IF it is both unregistered and doesnt show up on the title deeds, then using the copy map you get a valuation office certificate from the Valuation Office- this will show the owners from 1900 to date. This will be useful if you decide to make an application for first registration based on possession.

Having a copy of the title deeds may show whether there is a ROW on title. However as the laneway has been there since 1958, it is open to anyone to claim they now have a ROw through long user. Even if the laneway only goes to a river/ cliff, is it possible people go there to look at the view/ take a walk/ go fishing/ use it to access their back wall to paint it, maintain it etc etc

You would need an engineer if- it is registered and part of a bigger folio, to mark and certify the area for your application for squatters title. Or if the areas are very small and there is a doubt which folio it belongs to. Or if it is unregistered and you want to make an application for first registration based on possession= again to mark and certify the map.

As I said, if you go to a solicitor for advice they will be able to do all the above for you and advise you appropriately and explain anything you dont understand.


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