# Mobile home owners rights



## lagel (8 Sep 2006)

I have a mobile home in kerry but over the last few years the landlord has put the rent up extraordinarily high.  I know that a landowner of mobile home parks can charge exactly what they like (he says this year he has to pay VAT yet he wants only cash & refuses to give receipts) and of course everyone also has to pay key money. By the way there are NO facilities.
This year there's a new rule!  People can only sell their mobile homes THROUGH him and he insists he takes 10,000 commission or whatever you want to call it.  In other words the people who sold this summer - one sold at 12,000 only got 2,000 for their mobile home - he retained the balance.  IF people sell without involving him he says he will have the new owners off the site immediately.
IS THIS LEGAL????

I know mobile home owners have no rights but surely this is wrong.


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## elefantfresh (8 Sep 2006)

"he says this year he has to pay VAT yet he wants only cash & refuses to give receipts" - he hasn't got a leg to stand on


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## Vanilla (8 Sep 2006)

> People can only sell their mobile homes THROUGH him and he insists he takes 10,000 commission or whatever you want to call it.


 
This is a standard agreement in most caravan parks that I know- although the commission does vary- I think yours is probably on the high side. 



> IF people sell without involving him he says he will have the new owners off the site immediately.
> IS THIS LEGAL????


 
You are being given a licence by the owner to have your caravan on this site- it is personal to you and can be revoked if the rules are not adhered to. As I understand it therefore he is perfectly within his rights to refuse to allow any other new owner access or a 'mooring'.



> By the way there are NO facilities


 
Why do you use this park- why not go to one with facilities?



> he wants only cash & refuses to give receipts


 
This is a seperate issue- if you suspect tax evasion then you could report him- but the fact that he will not give a receipt is not proof in itself that he is not declaring and paying his VAT.


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## lagel (10 Sep 2006)

thanks for responses... sounds like he hasn't a leg to stand on but in fact everyone I ask says he can charge what he likes & if I don't like it I can leave!
I agree re revenue commissioners but who of us would like to shop someone to them??? and we don't need facilities as we have water & shower as do most in the park.  However its part of his planning permission that he should have them.

Kerry Co. Co don't seem to push such things.

Just to say the park is in the most beautiful place on the sea with mountains etc & I'd really hate to leave it unless I have to.  If & when that happens I'll have a real problem re ethics.   do I sell through him & not get even 20% of the value of the mobile home or sell on the QT & leave the new owners to face the prob - not a very nice thing to do - its a problem facing many in the park who are finding the rent a struggle nowadays.


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## Eurofan (10 Sep 2006)

lagel said:


> I agree re revenue commissioners but who of us would like to shop someone to them???



Not sure why you have a difficulty with this, if he's evading tax then more fool you for facilitating that by _not_ reporting it. 

As for the other issues Vanilla seems to have the issues bang-on, in the end of the day if you can't effect changes in the park then move elsewhere. It sucks but that's life.


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## lagel (10 Sep 2006)

true it is life - at least I know I'm annoyed but not ready to leave with just 2 or 3 grand in my hand after all I've invested in my place so I suppose I'll give it another year (or two).  I'd hoped someone had similar experiences & maybe found a loophole in the law or something to prevent giving so much in commission.  In the end my guess is its only a matter of time before someone reports him to tax office as there's a lot of bad feeling in the park this past year


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## Jister (11 Sep 2006)

How much are your annual fees?

On the subject of selling your mobile. It will depreciate anyway, so unless its very new and expensive it won't be worth much in a few years anyway.

My parents have a mobile in Clare and its probably worth only a few thousand if somebody is buying it to relocate it, but on the site its on its worth alot more, maybe €10k.


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## lagel (14 Sep 2006)

paid 1300 rent last year - 1500 this year & told it'll be 1700 next year.  I suppose its worth 10 or 12k as its old


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## mayfair (6 Oct 2006)

I too have a mobile home in Co Waterford. and find myself in the same
position as lagel. I want to sell but will loose about 10,000 because the park owner has only offered me 2,000 for my mobile home. My cousin bought a mobile from the owner this year and had to give a cheque for 21,000 and 4,000 in hard cash to secure the deal!!!! I originally bought my mobile privately only 3 years ago, for 16.000 now the owner says the rules have changed and I must sell through him. To me this is extorsion and I'm sure there are alot more people in our position now the summer season is over. Can these cartel of park owners get away with this ????


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## Vanilla (6 Oct 2006)

Did you sign any agreement Mayfair? As far as I am aware it is normal that when you sell your mobile home that you would pay a 'penalty' to the owner of the park- but I'm not convinced that the owner would have the right to say you can only sell to them or through them unless you signed an agreement to that effect. Take legal advice.


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## mayfair (7 Oct 2006)

Thanks Vanilla for your reply. Last year he sent out rules to be signed, but I did not sign, just paid my site rent and nothing was said. So no agreement signed. I have contacted a solicitor and will let you know. Would anyone else care to consult with the solicitor aswell, join forces as such??? I don't know of any other type of business which would be so blatant and try to get away with such practices. Imagine if Bertie was a Park owner !!!!!


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## lagel (7 Oct 2006)

glad to read of your experiences mayfair.  It all seems so unfair.  Our Kerry landlord nevers signs anything & we've not been requested to sign anything - all taken on trust.  I bought from the mobile home owner (& paid the usual key money to site owner) b4 he started laying down rules & regulations but nothing in writing - he just calls to each mobile & tells us what the rent will be next year & that we cannot sell except through him.  It seems we have no legal rights at all - totally at the mercy of a landlord who's attitude is ' if you don't like it then leave'. I'd love to get a group together - power in numbers!


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## mayfair (7 Oct 2006)

Lagel, will be talking to solicitors next week. I hope the fact that we have'nt signed any agreement or contract will be beneficial to us. Will let you know how it goes. I don't mind the attitude 'if you don't like it then leave' but I can't take the attitude 'if you don't like, I'll rob you blind before you leave'


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## june (7 Oct 2006)

10k sounds like extortion. our sale fee is more like1500 euro on a nice site in kerry. fee going up every year though too. esb refuse etc...

on a separate note i am not impressed at being asked to pay a tv licence (full charge) for a tv i can only watch 5 months of the year.


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## Murt10 (8 Oct 2006)

Nothing in writing. Being forced to sell something worth 12k for 2k and being told to lump it if you don't like it. Total scam.

Personally I'd burn the mobile down where it stand rather that let the mobile home owner away with this. Let him look after the cleanup.



Murt


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## RainyDay (8 Oct 2006)

If the mobile is your property, what's to stop you hitching it up to your car and taking it to a different location to sell it.


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## mayfair (9 Oct 2006)

RainyDay said:


> If the mobile is your property, what's to stop you hitching it up to your car and taking it to a different location to sell it.


 

As Jister said earlier, the mobile home is worth say 10,000 because it is on site at a seaside park, with decking ect. You could buy a nicer and newer model mobile home cheaper but would'nt be allowed to bring it on site. You have to buy through agents or the park owner. Also a low loader type lorry is needed to move a mobile. The agents would do this for a fee of 2,000. Believe me Rainy Day if there was a simple way out for me I would take it. 

Murt10 the fire option sounds good to me. Except I would'nt have the nerve and don't have a box of matches.


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## RainyDay (11 Oct 2006)

mayfair said:


> As Jister said earlier, the mobile home is worth say 10,000 because it is on site at a seaside park, with decking ect. You could buy a nicer and newer model mobile home cheaper but would'nt be allowed to bring it on site.


So the value is in the site, not just in the home itself? In that case, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that the site owner will want a piece of the action. What's the rough split of the 10k value between the cost of the mobile home and the value of the site location?


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## Potter (12 Jun 2020)

Looking for advice. I have a mobile in Bettystown. I have  received a pittance of a reduction on site fees. Basically, fees reduced by €550 for 3 months closure. Do I and other mobile home owners have any rights to request a fairer price.?  6 months opening is €2550  it has increased every year for upgrades that no one has ever noticed but now the owners want €2000 for 3 months.


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## Leo (12 Jun 2020)

Potter said:


> Do I and other mobile home owners have any rights to request a fairer price.?



What does your contract say?

I presume you don't live locally to it. so it's not as if you would have been able to make use of it while the business still has ongoing costs like insurance, electricity, maintenance, etc..


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## Ska'd 4 life (22 Jun 2020)

At least you're getting a reduction. On a park in Liscannor and just told 5 mins ago we have to pay the full fees. Fees btw that were increased by 200 euro when we got our renewal notification before lockdown. Surely this can't be right?


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## Gordon Gekko (22 Jun 2020)

But what services provided by the site aren’t required because of the lockdown?

My golf club hasn’t given me a discount; the place still had to be maintained, insured, etc.


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## HollyBud (23 Jun 2020)

> But what services provided by the site aren’t required because of the lockdown?



Insurance
Waste
Staff (possibly on the €350)


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## peteb (23 Jun 2020)

HollyBud said:


> Insurance
> Waste
> Staff (possibly on the €350)


Still need insurance


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## Lockup (24 Jun 2020)

*Ska'd 4 life*
-> What is your contract say?


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## Lockup (24 Jun 2020)

Ska'd 4 life said:


> At least you're getting a reduction. On a park in Liscannor and just told 5 mins ago we have to pay the full fees. Fees btw that were increased by 200 euro when we got our renewal notification before lockdown. Surely this can't be right?


the owner probably got full fees from some ppl at the start of the year and thinks due to moral hazzard he can get it from everyone. Guarantee there will be some individual bargaining going on


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## DeeKie (24 Jun 2020)

Are these contracts you have governed by consumer protection law? Contact the CCPC.


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## Lockup (1 Jul 2020)

any update?


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## Merrydee (16 Aug 2020)

Looks like none of us actually have any legal rights when we use a mobile home park. As a previous post suggested- power in numbers. This is an area that is completely un addressed in law and can only change if people get together and lobby the government. 
The owners on our site have increased their fees substantially year on year, have a disclaimer on liability for any accidents, injuries or loss and have now brought in a new rule that we are not allowed carry out any work ourselves but must go via them - if they ever get around to it. As others on this forum have experienced, no receipts are given. 
Any one interested in joining/creating a group to lobby for rights?


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## Bronte (16 Aug 2020)

There is something missing from this thread. Not one of you were forced into this situation. You all knew what you were signing up for. You choose this situation. Now I’ve literally no idea if mobile home parks are making so much money that it’s a business I should invest in, but I suspect not based on my sister in law who has been renting in one for  the last 15 years, including decking.


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## DeeKie (17 Aug 2020)

This sounds like a perfect Joe Duffy topic. Did anyone contact the CCPC re unfair contract terms breaches (1995 Regulations))? A lot of you are mentioning classic unfair contract terms, which are illegal.


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## Leo (17 Aug 2020)

Merrydee said:


> to lobby for rights?



I think the most effective lobby would be to shop around for this service. With the current insurance landscape, I can't ever see a situation where legislation will give you free reign to carry out whatever works you like on someone else's property.


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## Merrydee (6 Jan 2022)

Leo said:


> I think the most effective lobby would be to shop around for this service. With the current insurance landscape, I can't ever see a situation where legislation will give you free reign to carry out whatever works you like on someone else's property.


sorry for the long delay before replying.
We each have to take out full insurance including public liablility, the park take no responsibility for any damage, injury, loss etc.
Based on the number of mobiles in the park I have used up until now, the owners are recieving 350000 per annum, employ only one person but provide contractors to carry out any of the works one might require. These contractors pay a stipend to the site owner for the 'right' to work there, and the mobile home owners pay full costs - somewhat higher than if you were to get a private contractor yourself - I have checked into this.
Personally I will be leaving the site due not only to the excessive greed, but the unbelievable heartlessness of the owner when they were provided with a legitimate reason for a person - not me - being delayed in payment. Two deaths in the family. No concession allowed, no compassion, their mobile was removed from the site the next day - the owner does not know what has been done with it. So insult to injury.

And you are right, no one  has to choose to use these sites. however the same could be said for many other situations and utilities. This particular area has zero protection provided to the occupiers and for that reason I think something should be set up. Just my opinion


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## noproblem (6 Jan 2022)

Merrydee said:


> sorry for the long delay before replying.
> We each have to take out full insurance including public liablility, the park take no responsibility for any damage, injury, loss etc.
> Based on the number of mobiles in the park I have used up until now, the owners are recieving 350000 per annum, employ only one person but provide contractors to carry out any of the works one might require. These contractors pay a stipend to the site owner for the 'right' to work there, and the mobile home owners pay full costs - somewhat higher than if you were to get a private contractor yourself - I have checked into this.
> Personally I will be leaving the site due not only to the excessive greed, but the unbelievable heartlessness of the owner when they were provided with a legitimate reason for a person - not me - being delayed in payment. Two deaths in the family. No concession allowed, no compassion, their mobile was removed from the site the next day - the owner does not know what has been done with it. So insult to injury.
> ...


A friend has one of these in Spain, great value and gets huge use out of it for a fraction of what people are talking about here. It's a way of life over there for an awful lot of people, especially British people. The weather is thrown in for free.


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## Leo (7 Jan 2022)

Merrydee said:


> This particular area has zero protection provided to the occupiers and for that reason I think something should be set up. Just my opinion


I do empathise, these seem to be nothing short of a pain. I can only assume people buy in without doing proper research or really understanding the full implications of the terms and conditions. Most of us have a tendency not to consider issues like the bereavements above and how they might affect us when we make these decisions. 

The operators are acting within the law, setting up a group will likely achieve little. The only alternative is to seek alternative locations with more palatable rules, but if all the existing ones run on similar lines, there may well be good reason for that. I imagine it's a difficult enough business to be in with the risk of a bad tenant or two dragging down a whole site and ruining your business. If it was an easy way to make money, more people would look to open these and there would be more competition. 



Merrydee said:


> Based on the number of mobiles in the park I have used up until now, the owners are recieving 350000 per annum, employ only one person but provide contractors to carry out any of the works one might require.


That's not a great business unless it's very hands off. Once you pay that employee, deduct all other costs and then deduct tax from any income taken out, there are easier ways to make money.


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