# One Beacon - Sandyford



## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

Hi - new poster

I'm buying a new 2 bed apt in this development in sandyford (5 min walk to stillorgan luas stop). The cost is €480k plus €25k for a car space. Does anyone think that the price is excessive?

The apartments are well kitted out and are very hi-spec and the one i'm getting is south-facing. However, I am moving from an 1100 sqft 3 bed semi to this 800sqft apt. Plus there is a lot of building going on there at the moment and for at least another year. Has anyone any experience with this? Will I regret giving up the space?

My main issue with moving is that I seal the equity in my current house and theres no stamp duty on the new apt. My main worry is that if I go to sell the apt in 2-3 yrs that if IR's rise and with lots of new apt developments, I could take a big hit on this.

Any thoughts much appreciated.


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## RainyDay (20 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> My main issue with moving is that I seal the equity in my current house and theres no stamp duty on the new apt.


Are you saying that your main motivation for moving is to 'seal' in the equity, i.e. the rise in value in your current home? If so, please think again.

There are a whole load of lifestyle issues around apartment living that you need to consider. But let's put those to one side for moment.

Why would you want to 'seal' the equity? Are you planning on using these funds to invest elsewhere? If so, why not consider remortgaging rather than selling up.


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## CCOVICH (20 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> I'm buying a new 2 bed apt in this development in sandyford (5 min walk to stillorgan luas stop). The cost is €480k plus €25k for a car space. Does anyone think that the price is excessive?


 
To be honest, yes.  That's my personal view, others may differ.  We bought a 840 sq. ft. 2 bed (1st floor, south facing) apartment that's across the road from the DART around 14 months ago for a lot, lot less.  Parking was at 'no extra charge'.  The apartment is in Portmarnock, and is around 25 minutes from the city centre on the DART.

I'm not trying to run down your choice, or make it seem like my choice is any better, I'm just answering your question and giving you a comparison  .

Best of luck either way.  

P.S.  I'm sure the Luas is more frequent than the DART.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

Thanks for the replys.


I'm moving out of Lucan and hope to get approx €340k for my house. This would represent approx €150k profit.

With Adamstown coming on track, it will double the amount of houses in Lucan and will make mine less attractive due to no stamp duty on the new houses.

My view is that Lucan will be flooded with properties soon enough and with a very poor infrastructure there it will become an unpopular place to live. I have lived there now for over 4 years and have seen it go gradually downhill in that time. I feel I'm getting out at the right time. Renting in Lucan is already very tough at the moment so keeping it as an investment is not an option. 

I have always had a dislike for large apt complexes but this one only has 70 apts and they are attached to the Beacon Hotel so the facilities of the hotel can be used and entrance to apts can be got thru the lobby. Its also a very developing area with the business park, new shops, restaurants etc....

Theres no way I could afford a house closer to town on the DART/LUAS and the stamp duty would be big as well.

Re apt. living, the rent on 2 beds in the complex is €1600 so I'm hoping they'll attract good tenants (not being snobby here but if paying half a mill I don't want to live next to students).


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## sherib (20 Oct 2005)

I suppose you know there are a lot of apartments being built in that area? One, selling off the plans recently is at [broken link removed] Price for two beds (Irish Times 8th Oct) is _from _€495,000, floor area not quoted and ~ 300 apts plus town houses on that site. Across the road from there, on the Esso site, planning has been granted for about 500 apts. [broken link removed] Down the road there's another development planned, incl apts, on Blakes site (Bondi Beach), Stillorgan Road. It's hard to see the need for this volume of apts, especially if the market cools. On the other hand, who knows the future?

PS Having read rdrr's new post, Beacon sounds like a better bet than the developments I've posted.  Good luck.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

Thanks Sherib.

The aparthotel idea is an attraction for me in this complex but the main reason for picking it is that it is only 1/2 km from LUAS. 

It is a worry that a lot of apts are going up now especially southside - not sure how close those ones are to the DART/LUAS though.

2 and 3 bed townhouses towards the city centre are €600k and over plus stamp duty - My view is that if the IR's go up and the market slows down then it would be these houses that would get hit first. However, the other theory is that if it has its own roof and chimney, then its a safer bet than an apt.

Any thoughts?


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## SteelBlue05 (20 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> My view is that Lucan will be flooded with properties soon enough and with a very poor infrastructure there it will become an unpopular place to live. I have lived there now for over 4 years and have seen it go gradually downhill in that time. I feel I'm getting out at the right time. Renting in Lucan is already very tough at the moment so keeping it as an investment is not an option.


 
Where in Dublin is not flooded with properties! I wouldnt have the same opinion as you about Lucan, although I have only been there 2.5 years rather than 4. 

If your house is in a good established estate then it will be an attractive buy, it seems any of the estate in St Marys Parish and espeicially around Esker, Elmbrook, Willsbrook and that area are sold very quickly and at above the asking price. 

I hope when they upgrade the main road leading onto the N4 that it might help the traffic which I believe is no worse than other areas of dublin. It takes me 55mins to drive from Lucan to baggot st, that isnt so bad relative to anywhere else in dublin for a 8 mile journey into city centre. 

Certainly house prices have gone up quite a bit, this time last year 3 bed semis were at 280k, now they are 350, in comparison to most other areas in Dublin the prices are low. I really think the perception is as you state, over built, bad traffic etc. But in reality it is the same if not better than most other places.

Is the rental market not goood in Lucan, I dunno, I dont really keep an eye on the prices on Daft.ie etc.

I think when the Luas comes to Lucan (due I think 2008, so really 2010) and when the N4 is upgraded to 3 lanes it will be percieved as a good location.


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## Dunners (20 Oct 2005)

One further thing to consider is the location - I work in Sandyford and lived around the area previously. It's just a big car park for most of the day... Beacon is right in the middle of the industrial estate, so there really isn't much in the way of amenities at the moment (I realise that this will probably change in the next few years).

Sandyford village is nice, and Dunrum is a 20 min walk away... apart from that, there really isn't much else in the way of restaurants/ bars etc...


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

I take your point Steel Blue re St Marys because if you live there your kid gets into a certain school and thats a consideration for young families.

I am a single guy so that isn't an issue. I don't live in one of those estates but live in the Moy Glas area. The houses are making good money at present and I feel its right to get out. Only a mile down the road from us there is a big halting site there as well as a bucketload of new social housing. I feel this is dragging the area down. 

I realise that this sounds stuck-up but there has been a massive increase in attempted robberies and car thefts in the area over the past year. I keep getting mails from a guy i know in the neighbourhood watch re this. 

These issues allied with the long commute (i don't have a car so I have to rely on bus) and lack of facilities in Lucan makes me feel i'm doing the right thing.

If you notice already that there are a load of houses in Finnstown on the websites due to the building work starting on Adamstown. A year ago any house in there was snapped up ( again a good parish for the schools). Now they are not moving off the websites.

I think its a sign of things to come.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

Fair enough Dunners but Dundrum is 5 mins away on the LUAS and Ranelagh is 10 mins away on LUAS.

the amenities in sandyford won't be in place for another 2 years but it doesn't bother me too much when these places are so close by tram.


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## SteelBlue05 (20 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> I take your point Steel Blue re St Marys because if you live there your kid gets into a certain school and thats a consideration for young families.


 
Oh, I didnt know that. That would explain it a bit.



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> I realise that this sounds stuck-up but there has been a massive increase in attempted robberies and car thefts in the area over the past year. I keep getting mails from a guy i know in the neighbourhood watch re this.


 
Didnt know this either, I havnt seen\heard anything about this. It couldnt be any worse than anywhere else in Dublin though. How many thousand houses are broken into across Dublin each year, I doubt Lucan is getting anything more than its "fair share"  . Do you have to pay for neighbourhood watch?



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> If you notice already that there are a load of houses in Finnstown on the websites due to the building work starting on Adamstown. A year ago any house in there was snapped up ( again a good parish for the schools). Now they are not moving off the websites.


 
I have experienced the opposite to this, I was trying to buy up there earlier in the year and I was priced out of it. They were being snapped up, I thought because of the new reailway station being built up there. 



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> I think its a sign of things to come.


 
I think house prices in Lucan will keep pushing up to reflect the prices everywhere else. Equivalent houses in equivalent estates are going for 400-500k in other parts of dublin, I dont know why Lucan is a bit lower, I think it is down to perception. A wrong perception IMO.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

Neighbourhood watch is no charge but residents assoc is €15pa.

If you were looking at finnstown yourself earlier this year you would know that there were not many houses for sale there at any one time - Now there are at 7 or 8 on myhome.ie alone.

Adamstown is going to be built right up as far as Finnstown. I can't see people paying €400k-€500k for a second hand house in Lucan in the years to come when they could buy a new one in adamstown with no stamp duty. Also, it is likely that the adamstown area will have better facilities than Lucan.

Lucan at present has 10,000 houses and Adamstown proposes to build another 10,000. Doubling the size of the place is going to cause chaos. Upgrading the N4 won't be enough and the LUAS won't necessarily remove the traffic queues (see southside).

This may all sound a bit pessimisitic but it is my realistic view of the current situation. I do agree with you though in that Lucan has a very bad image.


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## SteelBlue05 (20 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> If you were looking at finnstown yourself earlier this year you would know that there were not many houses for sale there at any one time - Now there are at 7 or 8 on myhome.ie alone.


 
I viewed 6 places in Finnstown istelf at the time. Sure there are a few up on myhome.ie, at about 30k more than what I viewed in Jan\Feb. Theres always a stock of houses in Lucan for sale, just like any other area. Most of them will be sale agree in 4-5 weeks I bet. The demand is still very high.



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> Adamstown is going to be built right up as far as Finnstown. I can't see people paying €400k-€500k for a second hand house in Lucan in the years to come when they could buy a new one in adamstown with no stamp duty. Also, it is likely that the adamstown area will have better facilities than Lucan.


 
The property market doesn't make sense to me either but people pay for nice estates. I doubt Adamstown will reduce demand drastically across other areas of Dublin, why should it do so for Lucan? The new railway station up there will increase demand for Lucan IMO.

And what are "facilities" - I mean I have lived there for the last 2.5 years and it has everything I need to live. Shopping center in Liffey Valley, Superquinn, Park, roads to drive on, access to N4 to get to work, a pub which I never go to, buses into town with nightlink out of it. Whats missing? True it doesnt have sea views or a promenade etc.



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> Lucan at present has 10,000 houses and Adamstown proposes to build another 10,000. Doubling the size of the place is going to cause chaos. Upgrading the N4 won't be enough and the LUAS won't necessarily remove the traffic queues (see southside).


 
I dont think it will cause chaos, thats a bit exaggerated. I think we are just speculating here. A new railways station, upgrading the N4, a new road to N7 should be enough.



			
				rdrr said:
			
		

> I do agree with you though in that Lucan has a very bad image.


No I dont think it has a very bad image, if it did then how can you explain the increasing prices and high demand? I think some people have a perception of it being too built up and having a lot of traffic, in reality, speaking from experience, its no worse than most other places in Dublin.

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself its a good move. Which it probably is for you.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

You're right in that I do feel it is a good move for me - as a single guy I do have different considerations to somebody with a family. My commute time will reduce from 2 hours a day to 45 mins each day.

I have made a good profit on the house in lucan and I feel that the time is right to move out. Especially as you say the demand is still there and people are paying €15k -€20k over guide prices.

I really do believe that Lucan will be in trouble when adamstown comes along. You are relying on this govt to produce a better road network and a LUAS and a new railway to Lucan - I would be very surprised if any of these were delivered on time. The issues with the 2 LUAS lines not crossing and a metro to the airport are the most pressing for bertie. 

The investors are steering clear of Lucan now as they are finding it difficult to rent and the tenants are mainly rent allowance and non-national. No professional would want to rent in Lucan given the competitive rents you can get in town/southside along with access to DART/LUAS. Investing in an apt. around the city is a much better option as it is easier to manage and get a better tenant.

In my position, the gap is ever widening b/n prices on the southside and on the west/ north side. If you see yourself living in Lucan for the rest of your life, then grand you may make some capital appreciation on top of what you already have. But for me, the southside has more potential, theres plenty of money still around and as you say people will pay for nice places. Right now for me, these places are southside.


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## sherib (20 Oct 2005)

It's a big decision for you rdrr but it sounds like you want (1) to move closer to the city and (2) to be fairly certain that, whatever your choice, it will at least retain its value. With regard to the developments I posted, they are closer to Stillorgan QBC and roughly 1 km from Luas; they are also much larger developments so Beacon definitely has the edge there and a small estate is more attractive IMO. Absence of stamp duty is another plus.

I wouldn't disagree with other posters about Sandyford being a bit like a car park and without shops etc. but does that matter? You'd be close to Stillorgan, Dundrum and have access to city centre via Luas or the 46A on QBC and Nitelink. Another plus is that there's an Aircoach from Sandyford.

In the event of a crash or even a mini one, the next Q is whether it is better to have a house or an apt to sell. Fifteen to twenty years ago when even houses were hard to sell, selling apts was more difficult. Lifestyles and density requirements have changed so that may not be relevant now. Unless Sandyford Ind Estate were to disappear and all the companies based there, I'd imagine there would always be letting potential. Retirees trading down are another possibility if/when you were to sell. You mentioned 2-3 bed town houses close to city centre, where are they and could you afford the price? I'm not so sure that city centre townhouses would have much of an edge on a well located apartment but other posters may have opinions on that. Only you can decide for you - obviously. Good luck with your decision.


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## hmmm (20 Oct 2005)

I've just been repeating the words "half a million for an apartment in Sandyford is a reasonable price" to myself for the past 10 minutes, but it's still not sinking in.


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## rdrr (20 Oct 2005)

thats true sherib.


there are also 700 apts going in across the road in beacon south quarter over the next 5 years and that is where all of the amenities will be based around. I do have a worry re the no. of developments going up in general but I can't see a big downturn in the short run. 

European policy at present is (in reality) driven by the bigger countries and they want to keep rates low to stimulate growth. If Ireland were in control of its own fiscal policy, then odds are rates would be more like the UK's. Once inflation is kept under control, I can't see a big change in IR's too soon.


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## SteelBlue05 (21 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> I can't see people paying €400k-€500k for a second hand house in Lucan in the years to come when they could buy a new one in adamstown with no stamp duty.


 
I cant see people paying 500k + for a second hand appartment in Sandyford with just one car space and management fees on top of that.


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## CoffeeBrew (21 Oct 2005)

rdrr said:
			
		

> European policy at present is (in reality) driven by the bigger countries and they want to keep rates low to stimulate growth.


 
You just never know ! Inflation could change things:

*German institutes call on ECB to raise rates*

[broken link removed]


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## budapest (21 Oct 2005)

Are you sure about the possibility of getting 1,600 per month in possible rental, if you were to go down this route in the future? Sounds very high compared to what you can get for that money in the surrounding area.


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## gearoidmm (21 Oct 2005)

Nine apartments currently for rent in Beacon development - all quoting E1500-E1700 per month, all 2 bedroom.  Seems excessive when you can get a 2 bed in Ranelagh or Donnybrook for 1200-1400.  Can't see how they'll rent them out at that price in the current market.


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## rdrr (21 Oct 2005)

budapest - I wouldn't be buying it in expectation of renting it out in the near future - would be living there for a no. of years

looking at daft.ie thats the rates that these apts are commanding - they are aimed at the corporate mkt as they are kitted out to a very high standard and their location is right in the business park. They wouldn't really be suitable for two people sharing at that price.

this aparthotel idea is a new thing in ireland (as far as i know) but it does seem to be catching on  - a lot of new apt blocks are being built with hotels\gyms\restaurants on site (like the Old Chocolate Factory) so that the facilities can be used - My view is that these places will be more attractive to buyers than the more traditional apt blocks with no facilities.


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## mollser (24 Oct 2005)

I think you are looking in the right area, but those are very expensive apartments. There are plenty of 3 bed semi's in the area now (gallops, sandyford hall) that are around 500k, in great nick with good gardens etc. Stamp duty on top is a bit of a killer, but so is €25k for a parking space. 

The Luas is being extended up around to cherrywood, which should help boost the prices up there further when its built. Superquinn currently being built in the Gallops, M50, very close to schools, hospitals, all amenities under the sun. 

Mostly, the impression I got were that the vast majority of the people buying the apartments in the new schemes around sandyford area were looking as a foot onto the ladder to trade up to a house in the next 3-5 years. Well, they are not building any houses, so the 3 bedders are going to become more and more scarce. These houses were all only €400k one year ago €500k now, and are still rising fast.

You have the cash for the house, be sensible!


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## SteelBlue05 (24 Oct 2005)

mollser said:
			
		

> Stamp duty on top is a bit of a killer, but so is €25k for a parking space.


 
as is the hefty annual management fee (probably around 1000-1200 ?)


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## rdrr (26 Oct 2005)

The management fee on this is €2200 pa starting off - there seems to be a big dicrepancy b/n the level of management fees charged in different areas.

I know people in Blackrock paying €2k and Bray paying €1.7k whereas examples that I have seen on this website have been lower c. €1k. 

I can't justify this high level of charges but since I am not planning to stay for more than a few years then I could bear it - however if it goes too high it may be offputting for any potential buyer.

Has anyone else had experience of big % increases in mgt charges year on year? Also the mgt company is CB Richard Ellis Gunne - Anybody have good/bad experiences with them?


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## liamwoods (8 Jun 2006)

http://www.beaconcourt.com/

I bought one of the 2 beds here last year. Management fees are expensive 2,200pa. If all goes to plan the capital appreciation should be good even if there are another 700 apartments going up over the next few years nearby.

The "John Rocca designed" standards are amazing in this place. It has a real Wow factor that I don't think will be matched across the road. With the private clinic and hospital opening the demand for rent can only go up.

Overall, I'm very pleased with it.


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## Cantona7 (9 Jun 2006)

700 apartments.. thats only one development.. there are in excess of 3,000 unitsin the pipeline in this area over the next 3 years and thats excluding the new park development plan to build 2,000 houses in Sandyford on a green site..!  check out microsoft old site..allegro site.. 25o units at avid.. and the 31 story planning application at the mj flood site.. food for thought in sandyford.dundrum..


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## liteweight (21 Jun 2006)

budapest said:
			
		

> Are you sure about the possibility of getting 1,600 per month in possible rental, if you were to go down this route in the future? Sounds very high compared to what you can get for that money in the surrounding area.



2 beds in D.4 fetch this amount depending on location.


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## liamwoods (21 Jun 2006)

Not all of them are getting 1,600, some are asking 1,450 to 1,550. The standard is excellent though.


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## Propman (22 Jun 2006)

I can't stress the traffic enough; it can be 10/15 mins into the industrial estate and 15/20 minutes out. Have you tried to drive around there at 8.30am and tried to exit at 5.15 pm - on a rainy, dark November evening?


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## Kitten (25 Jun 2006)

A colleague of my husbands is renting in one beacon - there is a definite level of noise to be considered if your chosen apartment is overlooking the courtyard of the actual hotel as the outside area has gas heaters & is obviously the designated smoking area.  He was lucky enough to be able to change apt as his landlord had more than one.  The road frontage does not suffer as it is very quite by night.
I live in the area and would highly recommend it.  We moved in just over 2 years ago and everything has improved greatly even in that time i.e. roads, amenities, pubs, restaurants etc.  I would however point you in the direction of [broken link removed] - the new development down from Wesley college.  They have just launched the first 30 from plans - pricey but worth looking into.  In my opinion would be better placed than One Beacon.

Best of luck.


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## rdrr (29 Jun 2006)

What sort of prices are they looking for in Dundrum Point ? I can't seem to access that website and can't find any other info elsewhere.

Also, when is estimated completion?


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