# Company Liquidation...redundancy...no funds!!!



## desperatedan (18 Jan 2012)

Hi there,

I have a friend who unfortunately has been made redundant last week, as the Company she has worked for for the past 8/9 yrs. has "gone into liquidation"......

This is the _edited text_[protecting ID's] of the letter she was handed by her employer:

This was dated 07/01/2012, but only handed to her on  16/01/2012. 

She was told verbally a week previously, and the shop was closed then.



> Dear XXXXXXX
> 
> It is with regret that the company has gone into liquidation, and you are being made redundant with immediate effect.
> 
> ...



The above is the exact wording of this letter, only names have been changed.

Now, also enclosed in the same envelope, was a 2-page print-out from the DSP Internet web-site page regarding the Insolvency Payments Scheme, address below:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/RedundancyandInsolvency/insolvency/Pages/Index.aspx

Also, despite what the letter said, there was *no notification* enclosed regarding the Creditors Meeting, as in when where and what time, and this is the case with other employees who received the same letter and enclosures.

Needless to say, my friend was and is in shock, as there was no prior indication or sign that this was on the cards, and Christmas Trading was good. (BTW this is Retail).

To help her out, I looked up 

http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/

where I found out the information regarding the Creditors Meeting, venue, date and time.

Also, I looked up the CRO office, to check on the status of the Company, to discover that no AR was made last year, 2011....despite the fact that these were submitted every year since 2000 on date, within 30-40 days.

The last Return Registered was in 2010, due 4/10/2010, received 1/11/2010.

So, it would appear that all was not well, IMHO.

Also, there was a change in Situation of Reg Office in Nov 2011........Solicitor's Office registered as new office????

My friend is now very wary regarding what her rights are in this situation, and I would ask advice here as to how she should proceed, and how she can get those payments which are due to her?

Thank you all.


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## ClubMan (18 Jan 2012)

desperatedan said:


> My friend is now very wary regarding what her rights are in this situation, and I would ask advice here as to how she should proceed, and how she can get those payments which are due to her?


She can chase down statutory redundancy via the scheme mentioned above. More info here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/

I don't know if there is much more to say here?


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## mandelbrot (18 Jan 2012)

There really isn't a whole lot more to say.

The employer has pointed the former staff towards the arm of the State that steps in to pay when the employer is insolvent - that's where the money will be coming from, and it'll be up to those agencies to get in line to pick the carcass of the company to recoup what they can. It's unfortunate, but not uncommon - indeed some businesses actually stop paying the staff weeks or even months before they cease trading, and end up owing arrears of wages as well as the rest that the OP's friend is due.

All of this detective work the OP has done, is somewhat irrelevant, I mean, it doesn't require rooting around with the CRO records to deduce that all wasn't rosy with the company in November if they went into liquidation in December...

Maybe the OP doesn't understand that all that happens if you're late filing to the CRO is a late filing fee of €100 + €3 per day, and loss of audit exemption (if applicable), and that plenty of financially healthy companies are regularly late.


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## desperatedan (19 Jan 2012)

mandelbrot....thank you for your advice.

I can assure you that I was not playing "detective" in this matter. 

I was merely attempting to reassure a friend who is now in a desperate position. I was asked for help, hence my OP. 

I was foolishly under the impression that these situations were governed by law, and that included giving employees, who are Creditors, all relavent information, including about the Creditors Meeting.

However, from the replies so far, there is an assumption that all her rights will be delivered by the Insolvency Fund. 

But, AFAIK this should be processed by the Liquidator, and there are forms which need to be filled out and processed.

So, I suppose my friend should consider herself lucky that the Taxpayers have contributed to a fund which her now former employer is relying on to meet the obligations he obviously has no intention or means of now meeting.

Is there an obligation on the Employer to show accounts or can her claim be frustrated by anything which would cast doubt on the Company Insolvency?


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## ClubMan (19 Jan 2012)

I don't think that employees have any entitlement to information about creditors meetings or to see accounts etc. But regardless I don't think that this is really of any use/concern to her. If the company is not paying non statutory redundancy and are claiming that they cannot afford to pay statutory redundancy (a claim that others will validate) then she just needs to chase the latter up with the fund as explained in earlier links. If she has outstanding wages etc. owed then she might also want to chase these up but if the company is bust then I presume that she won't get anywhere with that. If in doubt call _NERA _and they will advise.


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## NumbrCrunchr (19 Jan 2012)

As a creditor of the company she is entitled to attend the creditors meeting where the directors must present a statement of affairs i.e. a balance sheet but not a full set of accounts. 
This will likely only confirm what she already knows i.e. no money to pay her.


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## ClubMan (19 Jan 2012)

Fair enough - I stand corrected. But it all seems a bit pointless and distracting when obviously the company is bust and the main concern now is chasing up statutory entitlements such as redundancy (and outstanding pay?).


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## desperatedan (22 Jan 2012)

ClubMan said:


> Fair enough - I stand corrected. But it all seems a bit pointless and distracting when obviously the company is bust and the main concern now is chasing up statutory entitlements such as redundancy (and outstanding pay?).



Just on further investigation, or "detective work"  as some would call it, can I ask for comments regarding the quote below, from:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/RedundancyandInsolvency/redundancy/Pages/RedundancyProcedures.aspx



> Your employer must give you at least 2 weeks' notice of the redundancy using "Redundancy Notification" - section A of form RP50. On the date of the termination of employment your employer must give you a "Redundancy Certificate" - section B of form RP50 - and should pay the redundancy lump sum due to you.
> 
> If your employer has not paid your redundancy lump sum, you should apply to your employer for it using form RP 77 (available from the Workplace Relations Customer Services - see 'Further information' below). If your employer still refuses to pay it, you can apply to the Department of Social Protection for direct payment from the Social Insurance Fund. You apply online using form RP50 as follows:
> 
> ...




Now, the above information is good, and absolutely confirms what has been said here by Clubman, et. (thanks).

But, I still do not know how my friend should proceed, as it says above the Liquidator must submit the RP50 Form on behalf of the Redundant Employees.

Now, as far as I understand, the Liquidator will be appointed/selected at or following the Creditors Meeting, so my friend will need to supply this person with her relevant details, to ensure her payments from the Social Insurance Fund. 

Could this be done at this meeting??

Or, could she actually process her claim on-line, as shown above, and have this prepared and printed out at home, and bring it to have it signed by the Employer at the meeting. 

The on-line form states:



> *Online Redundancy Claim Form*
> 
> All correctly completed online claims are given priority
> 
> ...



One way or another, the Employer has to sign RP50, and submit a letter from Accountant or Solicitor stating their inability to pay.

Or does this *have* to be done by the appointed Liquidator, the quote above says the liquidator *should* submit this form.

I would welcome constructive advice please.

Many thanks.


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