# FINANCIAL bungling is costing taxpayers a fortune.



## DOBBER22 (2 Oct 2003)

Is it just me thinking that these idiots have outdone themselves :\   is anybody actually running this country? or are the goverment just throwing money at people taxpayers money :mad  , this will hurt us all come budget time..

{Story from The Irish Independent}
FINANCIAL bungling is costing taxpayers a fortune. 

A litany of cost overruns, mismanagement and blunders involving millions of euro has been uncovered by the Government's financial watchdog. 

The explosive report by the Controller and Auditor General reveals that huge sums have been spent by the state on property which was never used. 

It exposes the scandal of projects where costs have rocketted far beyond the original estimates. And it highlights the massive overtime paid to some public servants and the money squandered on mismanaged schemes. 

As exclusively revealed in the Irish Independent last Friday, John Purcell's report puts particular focus on the controversial deal which indemnifies religious orders against huge claims for abuse in institutions. He says it could cost up to €1bn, more than twice the Department of Education's own estimate. 

But that is just one part of this shocking saga of public money squandered. The report also reveals that five properties bought by the state for €20m to house asylum seekers have never been used because of local opposition. One has been sold, a second has gone to another Government agency and the future of others is still undecided. 

The owner of one property in Co Carlow, sold to the state, was assaulted, "threatened with being shot" and placed under Garda protection. Another property in Co Kilkenny was never developed because of a planning wrangle - but the OPW had to pay more than €2m of taxpayers' money in compensation to a building contractor. 

Other disclosures include: 

* The cost of the new Cork School of Music, estimated at €13m, is now likely to hit €100m or more. That project is on hold even though hundreds of thousands of euro are being paid in rent for temporary accommodation. 

* Refurbishing Cork courthouse, which started in 1995, still hasn't been completed and the cost has spiralled from an estimate of €6.36m to more than €26m. 

* Sick leave in the prison service cost more than €8.6m last year and accounted for almost 15pc of the annual overtime ban. 

* A bank audited by the Revenue Commissioners and found to have no bogus non-resident accounts subsequently emerged as harbouring money belonging to 62 tax dodger clients who had to cough up €8.7m. 

* A full one-third of fines imposed by the court on tax dodgers are never collected. 

The strongest criticism directed at the Government yesterday by the opposition was reserved for the deal with the religious orders, signed by former Education Minister Michael Woods on the last day of the outgoing Fianna Fail/PD Government. 

The agreement was described by Labour Leader Pat Rabbitte as the most "scandalously reckless, negligent and profligate deal" entered into in the name of Irish taxpayers. 

The public accounts committee will tomorrow start public hearings into how the deal was struck. Senior civil servants will be called.


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## Shanks1 (2 Oct 2003)

Bring on the benchmarking awards,  they deserve every cent :lol .


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## Ceist Beag (2 Oct 2003)

Whilst I agree with most of what has been said by Dobber22, there are some things that the Government cannot be blamed for and that the public themselves should take accountability for. Things such as the Cork School of Music - if the estimates were originally 13 million then how in the name of God could it end up costing over 100 million? Surely the builders should take the responsibility for this? I know you could say that the Government are ultimately responsible as they pay the cash and the should have taken a tougher stance over the spiralling costs but surely the builders have to take most of the blame - I think in future it should be possible to force builders to take extra costs upon themselves if they go over the estimate cost, although I know it's never that simple! Also, 8.6 million in sick pay? Again, what can the Government do about that? Surely the employees that take the sick days (and believe me they are not always sick!!) have to take some responsibility (or their managers at least!) and have no right to complain then about taxpayers money being squandered when they themselves are partly to blame! We seem to always love complaining in this country about other people wasting our money but are very quick to take advantage of any situation where we can waste the same taxpayers money ourselves!


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## Thrifty Knot (2 Oct 2003)

*We're too quiet!*

Ceist Beag, 

I don't think we complain enough, I think we are the fools who elected the misfits, and gave them the power to act as misfits.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I think right now FF have absolute power. Why? There is no opposition. The nearest thing is this country (and similarly in UK) to an opposition to FF is the media. FG et al are pathetic.

_We seem to always love complaining in this country about other people wasting our money but are very quick to take advantage of any situation where we can waste the same taxpayers money ourselves!_ 

Now that's a broad stroke of your sweeping brush, and does not reflect the vast majority of PAYE. Yes there are people taking advantage, but because the misfits are letting them get away with it.

The electorate are now the whipping boys of FF, whereas >20 years ago, the catholic church were our masters.

Isn't it a crying shame that for such an educated people, we are immature voters.


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## haha (2 Oct 2003)

*its OK*

I know a company making a fortune from the OPW, they're giving money away, paying top rate for driving nails, plastering and plumbing.. they're laughing at us all.
The '04 Merc is ordered and the home in the south of france is fully paid for.. roll on the wastful expediture and old boys club, they rest of you keep coughing up that Tax !


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## shnaek (2 Oct 2003)

*Wasters*

I think Ireland is in big trouble myself. I was in Barcelona for the last week and even though there is plenty evidence to be seen of Spains poverty they still have a state of the art transport system comprising of underground, rail and bus all integrated and all cheap to use. I paid E5.80 for 10 journeys lasting 1 and a quarter hours each. Also my girlfriend and I ate out every night (with beer/ wine) and paid between E25 and E35 for beautiful three course meals late at night. We met up with 2 friends and a round of beer cost us less than E10 for the 4 of us. Barcelona houses around 4 million people and yet it looks a lot less spread out than Dublin when you look at it from the air.

Taxpayers money is being wasted in a country that rewards incompetence and irresponsibility.

All Ireland needs is a financial shock (eg a house price collapse) and we will be back once again to emmigration, and people will wonder if  the celtic tiger was just a figment of our imagionation.

Also - I can't believe more people are not aware that this whole smoking ban thing is a red herring contrived to divert our attention from Irelands economic problems in much the same way as some countries have wars.

I feel bad about this, because in general the Irish are great people, just totaly unable to stand up for ourselves.


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## Silvera (3 Oct 2003)

*Our money !*

I agree with all of you guys.

I'm a young person who is totally sick to the teeth of the incompetence and downright stupidity of our government(s).

I mean, if I was getting a house built, I would approach several builders and request an estimate from each of them. I would then choose a builder and they should built the house for (very close) to the estimated amount.
While it is possible for a small overrun of costs - the overuns on government projects is a joke !  

shnaek is correct - the smoking debate is contrived (no doubt by one of Bertie's many spindoctors) to deflect the public's attention away from the crisis in the health service (and other important issues).

It's time we said ENOUGH in this country before the economy is run into the ground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

If a protest march/car blockade was organised, I would be there "with bells on" !


(Incidentially, have a look at this site - www.paddyshamrock.com)


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## rainyday (3 Oct 2003)

*Re: Our money !*

The case of the €2m payout in relation to the property in Kilkenny warrants further examination. Here’s what the Comptroller & Auditor General’s Report for 2002 has to say about that case;



> *Site at Leggetsrath Co. Kilkenny*
> This site was leased by OPW on 8 March 2002 under a licence agreement at a monthly rent of €15,332, with a pull out clause in favour of OPW if the project could not proceed. The site was leased in order that system built accommodation to house about 250 asylum seekers could be constructed on it. A lease agreement for a period of 4 years and 9 months at an annual fee of €184,000 per annum was also agreed which would commence after the system built accommodation had been erected.
> On 11 March 2002 the Minister made an Order in exercise of his statutory powers under the Planning and Development Act 2000, to dispense with the requirement to obtain planning permission for the development. A letter accepting a tender from the contractor for the construction of system built
> accommodation in the sum of €6.56m (including VAT) was signed by an OPW Commissioner on 14 March 2002.
> ...




The nub of the issue seems to be that the Dept did not get full legal advice from the Attorney-General before competing the purchase & the contracts with the contractors. The Dept was assuming that they could proceed without planning permission, based on precedents from other similar developments.
But this was not the case in Kilkenny.

I’m not one of those people who enjoys the Irish field-sport of Civil Service-bashing. However, I just can’t get my head around how this situation could possibly have been allowed to happen. It must have been patently obvious that it was extremely likely that locals would use every possible legal tactic to delay or prevent this development. To have entered a contract with having an ‘exit route’ or suitable termination clauses in place displays at best, gross incompetence and at worst, corruption.


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## Thrifty Knot (3 Oct 2003)

*Boys playing rugby*

Did ye hear Matt Cooper interviewing Simon Coveney last evening?
Coveney, Batt O'Keeffe, Jimmy Deenihan, plus more are all down under playing a "parliamentarian" rugby world cup. They are missing the first two weeks of the Dail.
Simon said "Well, 'twas either miss 2 weeks of the dail or miss the world cup, sure we couldn't miss the world cup!"
Basically the boys are on the piss in Oz (at their own expense) when they should be working back home.
Coveney said he was representing his country! At what? Booze?

And Coveney is a front bencher of the majority Opposition? Are they all the same, these td's? 

I don't want to have this feeling of being exploited anymore by the gov, I want to get rid of it! Is there anyone in the opposition worth supporting?
Enda Kenny resembles a Christian Brother to me (I bet he has a leather in his pocket!) so please don't mention him.

Pat Rabbitte?


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## Ceist Beag (3 Oct 2003)

*Re: We're too quiet!*

Thrifty, I'm not trying to defend the Government, hey I'm no different from the rest of you when it comes to being frustrated with the wastage of our money. All I'm trying to point out is that we have to take on some responsibility as well - this country is getting ridiculously expensive and its getting to the stage where things that we took for granted before will be beyond most peoples means soon. But yeah, like Silvera said, the overrun costs in the government projects (the LUAS is a joke!) is crazy and someone should have to take the blame for that. The fact that there is no opposition to the government is a shameful reflection on FG and Labour - I think Enda Kenny could walk into a pub and noone would even turn their head, his profile is that low!


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## stobear (3 Oct 2003)

*Re: We're too quiet!*

I couldn't stop laughing the way Cooper ripped your man to bits yesterday, nearly split meself . We cant expect much more than this really from a government too busy acting the b*****x over smoking bans, LUAS, health service etc . I am not much of a political analyst but I do know incompetance when I see it. 

I think Rabbitte is the only one worth listening to, and my gut feeling is to boot the present guys out.

Stobear


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## Thrifty Knot (3 Oct 2003)

*Classic quote*

Classic quote from Pat Rabbitte on Q&A last Monday nite when referencing the FF senator who once worked collecting advert money from Dublin brothels:

"He's the only man I know that came out of a brothel with more money than what he went in with!"

They're still explaining that one to Brother Enda!


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## DOBBER22 (4 Oct 2003)

*Re: Classic quote*

Twas a classic alright :lol


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## Silvera (4 Oct 2003)

*Pat Rabbite*

Pat Rabbite is excellent with the witty remarks but I'm begining to doubt if there is any real political substance to him - he was just as low key as Enda Kenny when some serious issues came in front of the Dail in recent times.
These were excellent occassions to hound the government, but little came of it.

I hope I am wrong on this.
I truly hope Pat Rabbite is the Taoiseach-in-waiting that we have all been waiting for !!!


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## rainyday (4 Oct 2003)

> Sick leave in the prison service cost more than €8.6m last year and accounted for almost 15pc of the annual overtime ban.


I wonder how much of the prison officers overtime was accounted for by [broken link removed].


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## DOBBER22 (6 Oct 2003)

Locked up but still have the opertunity to make a quick buck now there's a justice system worth bragging about :\


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## daltonr (10 Oct 2003)

Call me cynical but hoping that those in opposition are going to buck the trend and transform the country is pie in the sky.
Over the years all of the political parties have committed themselves to being good at one thing.  Getting elected.  And sadly since there is one way to be popular with the masses, our major parties are broadly the same.

To listen to Enda Kenny you'd think he had some silver bullet in his pocket that was going to make all our problems go away.

Live with it folks.  We're screwed.
Save your pennies. Get rich. Look after yourself. Do your bit to help others. Stop hoping the country is going to become a better place.  It's not.

That's enough end of week depression.

-Rd


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