# Kielys Elect Liquidation:letter & phone call requesting to sign over proxy rights



## higster (7 Jun 2008)

If yes how are you proceeding. I got a letter & phone call requesting to sign over proxy rights to the chairman for the meeting in Killarney on Monday next. They said it was so they could appoint over their own liquidator and they will look after the customers first. 

My own feeling is that they could have looked after us well before thie (on Fri last I had ordered my stuff to be delivered on the following Thurs...shut down on the Weds...)


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Jun 2008)

*Re: Kielys Electrical Liquidation*

If you paid by credit card, the credit card company will give you your money back. 

Brendan


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## higster (7 Jun 2008)

*Re: Kielys Electrical Liquidation*

nope afraid not. Cheque long since cashed.


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## ajapale (7 Jun 2008)

*Re: Kielys Electrical Liquidation*

Kielys had full page ads (for their electrical goods) in this weeks Kerryman  published on Wednesday the same day they shutdown.

I figure the competition from Harvey Norman and Soundstore was too much for them.


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## ClubMan (7 Jun 2008)

*Re: Kielys Electrical Liquidation*



higster said:


> If yes how are you proceeding. I got a letter & phone call requesting to sign over proxy rights to the chairman for the meeting in Killarney on Monday next. They said it was so they could appoint over their own liquidator and they will look after the customers first.


Who is the chairman of the meeting? An officer of the company? If so then why would you do this rather than attending and speaking on your own behalf? Or in conjunction with other affected parties? Assuming, of course, that the amount owed is worth chasing in this way. On the other hand if the likes of _Revenue _are owed money then they will be at the head of the list for payment first and ordinary creditors such as yourself may be way behind and unlikely to get any recompense.

As far as I know a liquidator's discretion in dealing with creditors may be circumscribed by certain rules - e.g. that preferential creditors (like _Revenue_) are settled with before ordinary creditors (such as you and other affected customers). So if somebody is insinuating that they can just deal with customers as they like then I don't think that they are correct.


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## samhain (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Kielys Electrical Liquidation*

Don't think it was just the competition from Harvey Normans etc I rang around to price a dryer last year and they said they would match the price I was getting in Finnucaines (in Limerick).  So I sent the husband out to buy it - in cash - and they said they would only give it to me at that price if I had it in writing from Finnucaines.  Naturally went straight to other shop and bought it there.  And subsequently went back to Finnucaines for the washing machine, dishwasher and american style fridge freezer.


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## MrMan (9 Jun 2008)

> they said they would only give it to me at that price if I had it in writing from Finnucaines. Naturally went straight to other shop and bought it there. And subsequently went back to Finnucaines for the washing machine, dishwasher and american style fridge freezer.



They were right to do this as people have a tendency to exagerrate prices.


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## FredBloggs (9 Jun 2008)

The chairman of the meeting will be one of the directors.  They are trying to get their preferred liquidator appointed rather than someone put forward at the floor of the the meeting.  What you may find has happened is that a few of the bigger electrical distributors are coming together to get someone else proposed as liquidator.  If this is the case (and I have no knowledge of this particular instance) the directors will be trying to prevent this.  The liquidator proposed by the directors needs only a majority in value or number of proxies to win, while a liquidator proposed from the floor needs both.  therefore if for example the companies debt in total is €10 mil and €7mil is owed to five big electrical manufacturers their man would have value.  But if the directors can rustle up most of the votes (such as customers who are owed money) they will win.

That is why they need your vote


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## ClubMan (9 Jun 2008)

How independent is a liquidator once appointed? I would have expected them to be required by law to be independent?


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## MandaC (9 Jun 2008)

Is it a members voluntary Liquidation or a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation?


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## FredBloggs (9 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> How independent is a liquidator once appointed? I would have expected them to be required by law to be independent?


 
In theory they are independent but a lot depends on who is appointed.  A liquidator can be anyone - no qualification needed.  therefore if Clubman Ltd was going into liquidation in the morning you could in theory have your best pal (if you have one  ) appointed liquidator if you had either the majority in number or value of the votes.


In reality a liquidator tends to be from a firm of accountants but a liquidator appointed to a firm is more likely to be sympathetic to the former directors if he is theit nominee.  He will ususally have advised them (unofficially) about the mehanics of the liquidation process and how to ensure they get their man (ie him) appointed liquidator.  If he has built up a relationship before the creditors meeting chances are that relationship will continue after his appointment


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## MandaC (9 Jun 2008)

Assuming it is a creditors voluntary, given that creditors received notices and proxy forms.

See Attached

The key characteristics of a Creditors’ Voluntary Liquidation are: 

The liquidation is instigated by the directors of the company; 
The liquidator realises the assets; 
Employees are made redundant; 
The preferential creditor and unsecured creditor claims are agreed; 
Retention of Title claims are agreed; 
The Section 56 Report to the Director of Corporate Enforcement is submitted. In cases where the liquidator feels that the directors of the company have acted honestly and responsibly in relation to the running of the company, the liquidator will seek relief from his obligation to make a Section 150 application to the High Court. However, if a liquidator has evidence that one or more of the directors of the company did not act honestly and responsibly he will instruct his solicitor to issue proceedings under Section 150 of the Companies Acts 1963-2003 to restrict the errant directors. 
On the realisation of all the assets the costs of the liquidation are paid; 
If there are surplus funds available the preferential creditors may be paid; and any 
Surplus funds are paid to unsecured creditors. 


I would always advise creditors to attend and vote on their own behalf (and agree their claim) and not pass their vote to the chairman.

At a creditors voluntary liquidation last week, when the creditors attended, it turned out that the debts outstanding as per the statement of affairs was incorrect and that each creditor was owed (30/40% more) than was listed for them on the statement of affairs.

The increase in creditors voluntary liquidations is a sign of things to come.


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## Jugovic (9 Jun 2008)

Higster / Brendan,

I also had on order 673 Euro worth of applicances. I got a phone call on it Friday but, to be honest, couldn't understand what the person was saying...I also didn't have the letter in front of me.

I have the letter now, I believe the request is for me (the customer) to appoint 'The chairman of the meeting' as my general proxy etc etc...can someone tell me is this the request from Kiely's? Is this what we are told to put down. Am I to return the two copies of the document?

Obviously, I would prefer to represent myself but can't do so with work commitments - off to the land in the rising sun tomorrow.

Brendan - I did pay by creidt card, so how would I go around getting my money back, and is it / isn't it part of the process above?

Thanks.


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## MandaC (9 Jun 2008)

Without seeing what notices people have received, I can only comment as follows:

Kielys Electrical is a registration of a business name.
That business name is owed by a limited company.  The limited company is not up to date with it's CRO filings.  The last Annual return is filed at *16/10/06 *with Accounts to *31/3/06.  * 

Jugovic, I would contact the credit card company and advise them that you are not going to get your goods delivered.  They will claim back through their merchant process and you will get your money back.  It happened to me with Rocca tiles a few years ago.


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## Jugovic (9 Jun 2008)

Thanks MandaC,

Do I need to do this before the creditors meeting takes place?

Thanks.


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## MandaC (9 Jun 2008)

Not necessarily.  But I would contact the credit card company sooner rather than later.

Untill you know for definite that you are going to get your money back by credit card, I would still pursue my claim through the company. In my case, I found out after the receiver was appointed.  I just contacted (AIB) Visa, and advised them that I was not going to get my money back or my goods delivered.  

I had to wait about a month I think it was, and they charged back the amount through the merchants terminal (if they have traded up to recently, they will not have received all their payments from VISA).  I actually wrote to the Liquidator as well, advising them of how much I was owed, in case VISA did not come up trumps, but they did.  

If you get paid through Credit Card, it will mean that you are not an unsecured creditor,(better for you if you do not have to go through the Liquidation process) which means they will have to adjust their accounts later on, ie their bank account will ultimately realise less, but their unsecured creditors will be less (by your amount), but that is their issue.

Credit Card Co. may try to fob you and tell you it has to go through liquidation.  I would press on them that you are disputing that transaction, ie, that you paid for goods that you havent received, and are definitely not going to receive.


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## Jugovic (9 Jun 2008)

Thanks MandaC,

One last question....If I returned the letter, appointing the chairman of the meeting as my representative at this meeting, would that negate me being able to get the money returned via my credit card (for example, if i got in contact next week)....


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## MandaC (9 Jun 2008)

In my case it was a Members Voluntary Liquidation.   However, I did contact both the Liquidator and VISA to see which would turn up trumps with my funds first.  I was owed €1200 and was broke at the time, so was going to take as many means as possible to get my few bob back.

Technically, at this point in time...you are owed funds by the firm, until you get your money back by VISA so you are perfectly entitled to sign your proxy form, as you are a creditor of the firm.

If it turns out next week, that you receive your funds back by Credit card, then you are no longer a creditor and have no further claims against the Liquidator.


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## ob5 (9 Jun 2008)

hey I also had stock on order with kielys and have sent back my form nominating the chairman.  I have been in this situation before ( I know - unlucky) but I think that Kielys are genuine in their efforts to look after their customers, the idea of giving the chairman the proxy vote is so that they can prioritise their customers for credit. I asked the person I spoke to on the phone a lot of questions and they answered everyone of them quickly and straight to the point - no fobbing off.  I wouldnt be so quick to put them down, a lot of people have lost their jobs in this and these are the people that were ringing customers.  I dont believe that the staff have any reason at this stage to lie to us.  By the way I was also told that they would attempt to get the stock for customers but that if this was not possible there would be no question the customer would get a refund.


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## FredBloggs (10 Jun 2008)

The directors of Kielys cannot promise to give you credit or a refund once the company is in liquidation. Your status will be as unsecured creditors and you rank behind any secured and preferntial creditors.
What may be happening is that they are hoping to go back into business and are hoping to buy the liquidated business off the liquidator. But make no mistake about it - no matter what they tell you - they cannot give you any guarantees now - stock back, refunds or otherwise.


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## MandaC (10 Jun 2008)

In the case of Rocca Tiles, it turned out that the Directors  personally  paid for all refunds because they wanted to continue in Business elsewhere, or were Directors in other companies, which is fair enough.


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## ob5 (10 Jun 2008)

I have made a few phone calls regarding this this morning and it turns out that Kielys have secured all customer monies to be refunded by the liquidator once he/she is appointed.  I have checked this from a legal point of view and it appears that if they appoint the liquidator there is no reason for them not to be allowed to do this


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## MandaC (10 Jun 2008)

FredBloggs said:


> The directors of Kielys cannot promise to give you credit or a refund once the company is in liquidation. Your status will be as unsecured creditors and you rank behind any secured and preferntial creditors.
> What may be happening is that they are hoping to go back into business and are hoping to buy the liquidated business off the liquidator. But make no mistake about it - no matter what they tell you - they cannot give you any guarantees now - stock back, refunds or otherwise.




Ob5, your information is incorrect  in respect of Liquidations in general. The correct position in respect of the Liquidation is as Fred Bloggs outlined above.  The Liquidator is completely in control once appointed and the Directors have no say whatsoever.

The statement of affairs when filed in the companies registration office will show the true financial position and what is realisable.


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## Munstergal (10 Jun 2008)

Hey guys i've purchased €2020 worth of goods from Kielys and they haven't contacted me by phone or my post. Does anybody have a number I can contact them on?


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## higster (14 Jun 2008)

Lads, I can't make the meeting on Monday (grandmothers funeral). Can someone let me know what happened (pm me and give mobile number).


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## onlineprint (15 Jun 2008)

I would also like to find out what happened in the meeting if anyone can PM me please.


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## higster (16 Jun 2008)

Anyone go to the meeting today & if yes whats the scoop?


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## higster (20 Jun 2008)

Thursday, June 19, 2008 

Kiely’s creditors are told their cash is protected 

CREDITORS of collapsed electrical goods retailer Kiely’s have been reassured that their cash is safe. 


Anxious creditors, including employees, customers and electrical company representatives, spilled out of the conference room and in to the corridor at a packed meeting with the liquidators in the Killarney Court hotel on Monday. 

Joint liquidators Marcus Treacy of O’Connor Kelliher and Treacy, Killarney, and Tom Kavanagh of Kavanagh Fennell, Dublin, have been appointed. 

Their priority will be to try to sell the business as a going concern and to realise the assets of the company. 

The meeting also appointed a committee of five inspectors. 
Mr Kiely confirmed that all funds sent to the company in advance by customers for goods ordered were deposited in a special bank account to protect the customer funds. 

[broken link removed]


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