# Disgraced Garda Snooping on Debtors



## Wishes

What's with these guys?  Very concerning.
Indo: Bank hires disgraced ex-garda to snoop on debtors




> *ACC Bank* is using a private investigator who works for an agency  which boasts of its use of ex-gardai. But the *International Bureau of  Intelligence (IBI)* has among its recruits former garda detective  sergeant John White. He  was dismissed from the force in 2006 after he was strongly criticised  by the Morris Tribunal investigating inappropriate behaviour by gardai  in the Donegal Division.


http://www.independent.ie/business/...ced-exgarda-to-snoop-on-debtors-29518981.html


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## Brendan Burgess

What is concerning? 

The use of sensationist headlines by the Indo? 

The use by banks of private investigators? 

The employment of this particular individual by the private investigation agency?


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## Wishes

Hi Brendan, with respect I don't think you are seeing the full picture here.  This ex Garda who has a dubious past is stalking the land undercover on behalf of an institution that must not be capable of reeling in its own debtors.  

Another visit from investigators they used in the past resulted in another  colorful event


What next, the celebrity criminal fraternity collecting their debts?

A line has to be drawn somewhere, don't you think?


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## Wishes

cashier said:


> it's most likely the one above.  Private debt collection agencies are free to hire whoever the like however what is concerning is that none of these people are vetted before they are given the job. If they engage in thuggish behaviour in the recovery of debt it could be very intimating for vulnerable people at the receiving end.
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/debt-collectors-are-not-vetted-by-garda-29076087.html



Absolutely.  This is the point I am trying to get at.  

Also I am a debtor of this institution and also feel intimidated when I have to meet with them so I can only imagine what it must feel like when you are met with the thuggish behavior of a debt recovery unit.


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## Brendan Burgess

There doesn't seem to be any "thuggish behaviour"  reported in the article? 

I agree that private investigators and debt recovery companies should be regulated and their employees should be fit and proper. 

But the lenders have every right to check out the lifestyle of their debtors.


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## delgirl

Wishes said:


> What next, the celebrity criminal fraternity collecting their debts?


Having seen this lot in action chasing a local developer, it's not something you would want to experience.


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## ajapale

Do individuals have a constitutional right to earn a living in a manner that is consistent with the criminal and civil law?


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## Wishes

Brendan, the ex Garda's presence alone would send shivers through the spine of any decent law abiding citizen.  Especially the people of Donegal who are more than aware of what the McBerrity family suffered.  So the ex cop need not even engage in tuggish behavior at all but his mere presence would be enough to insinuate what might be next  . . .  



delgirl said:


> Having seen this lot in action chasing a local developer, it's not something you would want to experience.



Delgirl, I shudder to think.


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## Palerider

Everybody has the right to earn a living, that article informs the reader that he was found guilty of no crime apart from internal breaches of Garda protocols.

I agree he should have faced due process and if expelled then so be it, there are many ex employees that have run into disciplinary problems within their jobs, that does not mean they do not have the right to make a living using skills honed over many years. 

Putting eyes on the debtor is nothing new, of course it must be done within the confines and indeed spirit of the law, assuming it is then please Indo give us news stories, this is not a story.


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## Time

The trouble is there are serving Gardaí at this racket also. Handy money on the side.


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## Delboy

cashier said:


> One would imagine they would check out the lifestyle of their private investigators and debt recovery people first then they would be off to a good start.



They most likely did.....but he's entitled to earn a living like anyone else unless he engages in illegal activity. That's how the system operates.
And if he instills some fear  (as was suggested in an earlier post) in those he confronts whilst operating within the law, then I'm sure that's an added bonus from the PI firm's point of view. Not much use them sending someone around in a cuddly jumper and slippers!


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## Gerry Canning

Wishes; There was no need for the Independant to highlight Mr Whites past. He was convicted of nothing. He was removed from the Guards. Let him get on with his life.

In relation to the Mc Brearty affair, the whole affair was unseemly and a lot of innuendo was launched, some true , some sensational.

For the Indo to link to Mr Whites present job is gutter type journalism.

Given Mr Whites Garda training , I would think he would be ideal in a debt-checker post. If the Bank customer is being honest then there is no issue.


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## honest

Gerry Canning said:


> Given Mr Whites Garda training , I would think he would be ideal in a debt-checker post.


Mr. White was dismissed from the force in 2006 after he was strongly criticised by the Morris Tribunal investigating inappropriate behaviour by gardai in the Donegal Division.  I do not think such an individual would be "ideal".  There are plenty of ex Gardai / Gardai who retired in their early fifties who I think would make more ideal people for snooping outside debtors houses.   
Incidentally, I think the bank has every right to check on individuals, and I am glad they are doing so.   I think many people would feel however its a pity that nobody investigated, or seems to have a great interest or urgency in investigating, inappropriate behaviour by the banks or regulator during the bubble years.


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## MrEarl

Brendan Burgess said:


> ....
> 
> I agree that private investigators and debt recovery companies should be regulated and their employees should be fit and proper.
> 
> But the lenders have every right to check out the lifestyle of their debtors.




I agree 100% with you Brendan, on both counts ....

Infact, I would go half a step further and say that not only do the lenders have every right to check out the lifestyles of their debtors (in particular, those who are not paying), but they have an *obligation to their shareholders and to their other customers*, to ensure all who can pay do pay and hence help ensure the theory of lending, works the way it should.

We have all read and heard of instances where people are strategically defaulting and this cannot be allowed ... (while on the opposite side of the coin, those with genuine hardship situations need to be properly assisted).


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## gianni

Time said:


> The trouble is there are serving Gardaí at this racket also. Handy money on the side.



A complaint to the Garda Ombusman would eliminate this 'trouble', unless its hearsay...


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## Time

Not hearsay at all. The money being paid is extremely good.


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## Gerry Canning

Can we all agree 
1. It is fair and proper for Banks to do checks on people who appear to be messing.
2. Bad word  choice by me  in saying Mr White is (ideal) I mean he has the skills.
3. Serving Garda should not be at this.
4. With Cashiers comments about Regulators inactivity.
5. Any Debt checker/snooper acts properly.

I think we are all on the one side ; it is just hard to stay fair.


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## Time

> 5. Any Debt checker/snooper acts properly.


There be the main problem. They must act within the law.


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## ajapale

Time said:


> They must act within the law.



Agreed, but is the law (and the associated regulation regime) adequate?


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## Time

There is no regulation of debt collectors/private eyes. 

The law that applies is a mish mash of laws mostly around trespass and the non fatal offences against the person act. 

They would have to do all their snooping from public places, they could not come onto private property.


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## Wishes

Hence the reason Gardai should not be working two jobs.  Completely inappropriate a working Gardai collecting debts on the side as well as working for the State.


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## gianni

Can anyone point to an instance where a current Garda has worked as a debt collector ? Was the OP not about an ex-Garda ?


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## ajapale

Some off topic posts concerning CAPITA moved to Capita

This thread is about the use of former Gardaí by IBI on behalf of ACC bank.

And the appropriate legislation / regulation of the debt collection / PI sectors.


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## Time

How is this postcard being delivered?


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## Time

There would be privacy issues involved.


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## Time

The problem is you would be the one in legal trouble.


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## seantheman

johnnybgood said:


> can a postcard be used to collect an outstanding debt that's long over due......with the amount on it nothing nasty just facts.


Are you the one sending or receiving?


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## Time

He is the sender.


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## Bronte

What offense would he be committing?


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## Gerry Canning

We had cases of suppliers putting notes about debts due in their shop windows, in these cases the Town knows not jut a Postman?.
I cannot see a real legal issue here on a postcard.
Worksman is entitled to be paid, asking for what is due is not a crime.

Am I wrong?


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## seantheman

johnnybgood said:


> can a postcard be used to collect an outstanding debt that's long over due......with the amount on it nothing nasty just facts.


Can ye not stick it in an envelope rather than on a postcard?


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## serotoninsid

Time said:


> There be the main problem. They must act within the law.


Legislative change required.  NO acting or former garda should be allowed to work as a private investigator.  If they are already on the force, guess where most of their info will be sourced?  If they are retired, again, guess where most of their info will be sourced?  State systems should not be at their disposal.


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## RainyDay

Time said:


> The trouble is there are serving Gardaí at this racket also. Handy money on the side.





Wishes said:


> Hence the reason Gardai should not be working two jobs.  Completely inappropriate a working Gardai collecting debts on the side as well as working for the State.





Time said:


> Not hearsay at all. The money being paid is extremely good.



Anyone who has information of serving Gardai 'at this racket on the side' should report it to GSOC.


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## Peter

Not really


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