# How to prove i pay child maintanence?



## Hanks09 (13 Mar 2009)

Hi folks,

Brief history, i've been paying childrens maintanence for over 7 years at a fee me and my childs mother have agreed to. The thing is i have been paying this in cash as she doesn't want her lone parents affected. At the end of the day its her word against mine that any money ever changed hands between us. 

Would a letter from her saying that she is happy with all payments to date and from then on a weekly signed receipt from her cover me if god forbid she ever wanted to take me to court?? (she's happy to do this). 

(Let me emphasise that this is a really sensitive issue with her and other suggestions from me like direct debit, cheques etc have been totally dismissed, i know i have a right to do this but pls believe me when i say i could really do without the hassle of bringing these up again!)

Cheers.

Hanks.


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## mathepac (13 Mar 2009)

First off, let me point out that you are assisting her in perpetrating fraud against the SW system.

You need to support your child but you must also protect yourself.

If your child's mother is willing to sign a letter as outlined and sign a receipt for you on an on-going basis, then it looks like you'll have to settle for this, but I can't say if these would be acceptable "proofs" to SW or in court.


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## Hanks09 (13 Mar 2009)

mathepac said:


> First off, let me point out that you are assisting her in perpetrating fraud against the SW system.
> 
> You need to support your child but you must also protect yourself.
> 
> If your child's mother is willing to sign a letter as outlined and sign a receipt for you on an on-going basis, then it looks like you'll have to settle for this, but I can't say if these would be acceptable "proofs" to SW or in court.


 
As far as i know his mother explained to the SW officer that i contribute €20 p/w plus buy some shopping (i pay alot more than this) and that this €20 comes off her lone parents. Do you know if the SW ever found out about our arrangement who would have to backdate the rest of the money, me or her?


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## Cashstrapped (13 Mar 2009)

Hanks09 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Brief history, i've been paying childrens maintanence for over 7 years at a fee me and my childs mother have agreed to. The thing is i have been paying this in cash as she doesn't want her lone parents affected. At the end of the day its her word against mine that any money ever changed hands between us.
> 
> ...




First thing I would do is get her to sign something saying that she has been in receipt of the weekly amount you are paying to her even for the last year then as soon as she has that signed I would def. setup a direct debit from a bank account into another account be it hers or one in the name of the child/ children.

The thing is if you seriously think she is so against being paid in anyway that proves you have been paying it then there is nothing to stop her bringing you to court to get up to 26 weeks paid again.  The court can only award 26weeks back maintenance in any given year so there is nothing stopping her from going after you at any stage if you continue the arrangement you have in place.

It may be worth noting that she can offset circa €95 per week received for mainteance against rent/ mortgage costs so it is not classed as means so will not impact on her lone parents.

Get yourself covered and forget about how she feels about it, do it the right way by bank transfer or cheque, I wouldn't trust a signed slip of paper, who's to say she won't try convince a judge or a Social Welfare Inspector that you forged them if the spotlight lands on her for possibly defrauding the state.


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## Cashstrapped (13 Mar 2009)

Hanks09 said:


> As far as i know his mother explained to the SW officer that i contribute €20 p/w plus buy some shopping (i pay alot more than this) and that this €20 comes off her lone parents. Do you know if the SW ever found out about our arrangement who would have to backdate the rest of the money, me or her?




The statement about the Social Welfare taking the full amount of  is not true the Social Welfare don't take euro for euro when you are in receipt of Lone Parents it's roughly under half of what you receive they class as means.  The Social Welfare can come after you at any stage (if you are in employment) and insist you contribute a larger amount, I'm actually surprised that you haven't already been persued as my ex-h has got a letter from them recently and I've just been awarded it about 6 months ago.

Actually I've just checked welfare.ie and if she is in receipt of €20 the access it as means of €10 and that gives her a deduction of €2.50 off her lone parents, think she has the best of all worlds!!!


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## Hanks09 (13 Mar 2009)

Thanks Cashstrapped, some really interesting points there!

In truth i can't stress enough the problems i will encounter if i try get her to agree to anything else other than signing a weekly reciept. At the minute we have an ok kind of relationship but it hasn't always been like that and at the end of the day i don't want my son to suffer as a consequence.

Is it not up to her to declare any additional income/maintanence? As far as i am concerned i pay an amount we are both happy with or is there an onus on me to let SW how i am contributing?


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## samanthajane (13 Mar 2009)

Yes she should be declaring it not you. It was a long time since i was in court over maintanence, and that was because he wouldn't pay. The only amount i couldn't get back dated was from the date that i applied. I doubt the 26 week rule was in effect then, i wish it was. 

I dont see why she would have a problem with having it put into her account, apart from if social requested her bank statements.

Under no means do i agree with what she is doing ( but i am looking at this from your point of view and not that she is committing fraud ) why dont you ask her to open another account that only has the DD from you to her in it. That way she can carry on committing fraud. 

If she has a some what good relationship with you and is happy with the amount of maintanence that you pay i dont see how it would benefit her to take you to court. She should be grateful that at least you are a good father and is geting paid a decent amount of maintanence. I think she is being unreasonable not to even discuss this with you, but i can understand why you dont want the hassle of having to go through this.


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## Cashstrapped (13 Mar 2009)

Hanks09 said:


> Is it not up to her to declare any additional income/maintanence? As far as i am concerned i pay an amount we are both happy with or is there an onus on me to let SW how i am contributing?




Yes, you are correct it is up to her to declare it, however if the Social Welfare contact you looking for you to further support your child the situation will become very difficult for you anyway and possibly worse if she is receiving further benefits from the Social Welfare on the basis of receiving only €20 from you, if she is paying rent/ mortgage then obviously the €95 deduction would apply so there may not be any issue either way.

I really think you need to have yourself well covered off, if your paying maintenace to her and having a relationship with your child she is a very lucky woman.  If the bank or cheque is really such a non runner rather than getting her to sign a slip of paper each week could you get one of those rent type notebooks  where you can enter a date, description of Maintenance for *** and the amount and get her to sign it, that way you'd have a record similar to bank statement.


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## Hanks09 (13 Mar 2009)

Cashstrapped said:


> Yes, you are correct it is up to her to declare it, however if the Social Welfare contact you looking for you to further support your child the situation will become very difficult for you anyway and possibly worse if she is receiving further benefits from the Social Welfare on the basis of receiving only €20 from you, if she is paying rent/ mortgage then obviously the €95 deduction would apply so there may not be any issue either way.
> 
> I really think you need to have yourself well covered off, if your paying maintenace to her and having a relationship with your child she is a very lucky woman. If the bank or cheque is really such a non runner rather than getting her to sign a slip of paper each week could you get one of those rent type notebooks where you can enter a date, description of Maintenance for *** and the amount and get her to sign it, that way you'd have a record similar to bank statement.


 

I wasn't familiar at all with this €95 threshold and i am just after realising now why she is so desperate to keep my payments from the SW. She is also in receipt of another maintanence payment that goes through the court so i guess with this on top of the €20 she has declared from getting from me is bringing her to around the €95 mark!! 

Ah well it's not an ideal situation but yea i guess if SW comes looking i'll now have reciepts to cover me so it'll be now up to her to explain!


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## tick tock (14 Mar 2009)

sounds like your ex could have being my ex....i really mean that.


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## Hanks09 (16 Mar 2009)

tick tock said:


> sounds like your ex could have being my ex....i really mean that.


 
any advice??


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## tick tock (19 Mar 2009)

my advice would be pay her by cheque and thats it. my ex recently wanted to get more money from me for our daughter that i dont get to see by the way.i am unable to give anymore but i had being paying cash for the last 10 years and basically she is now saying i paid nothing and i cant actually prove i did.....but i have paid the last 7 years by cheque.so dont let her bully you into paying cash. my ex insisted on cash or we would go to court.now i wish we had gone to court.so i know your situation / predicament.
pay by cheque if you are really worried and that will be your proof. tell her take it or leave it.


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## budapest (19 Mar 2009)

Hanks09 said:


> Would a letter from her saying that she is happy with all payments to date and from then on a weekly signed receipt from her cover me if god forbid she ever wanted to take me to court?? (she's happy to do this).



Could you get this letter signed in the presence of a notary, so there won't ever be any issue in relation to signatures being questioned in the future?
http://www.notarypublic.ie/

Their fee tends to be nominal - typically 30/40 Euro or less.


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## Hanks09 (27 Mar 2009)

budapest said:


> Could you get this letter signed in the presence of a notary, so there won't ever be any issue in relation to signatures being questioned in the future?
> http://www.notarypublic.ie/
> 
> Their fee tends to be nominal - typically 30/40 Euro or less.


 

Thanx budapest, what about them peace commissioner people, would they be able to help?


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## Sully1 (27 Mar 2009)

For all concerned there should be some sort of record regarding the payment. As other posters said, there is nothing to stop her taking you to court stating that you have never paid maintenance and looking for 6 months arrears. 
I receive payments and I insisted that they go through my bank account so that we both have a record of the payments. 
You are paying maintenance that has been agreed by you both so she should have no objections and in my opinion if her welfare payments are affected...so what? There are plenty of lone parents out there who manage on the welfare payments and get no extra maintenance. What she is involved in is fraud and from recent media reports, there is a crack down on it.


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## tweetie (12 May 2009)

Know this thread is from March but just wanted to make one point. if there is no maintenance order from the courts in place then a judge cannot order ANY arrears if the matter does end up in court some day. It would simply start from that day forth


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## kim (25 Sep 2009)

set up a bank acc for the child and pay the money into that and when she wants it she can withdraw it, please protect yourself the courts will more than likely be on her side! bank of irl have a youth savings plan acc open one for the child please!


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## kim (25 Sep 2009)

'Know this thread is from March but just wanted to make one point. if there is no maintenance order from the courts in place then a judge cannot order ANY arrears if the matter does end up in court some day. It would simply start from that day forth'

Tweetie is this true? I know of a case where the father was paying cash of 100e weekly then there was a bitter break up and he started paying that money by direct debit knowing it would end up in court over access and she made out he never paid her for the first 2 yrs of the childs life (which was lies) and the court made him pay 150 a week for 6months then after that it came back to 100 a week.


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