# Am I being investigated?



## ccdebtor (8 Apr 2014)

I have been on Disability allowance since 2002 and have never had a social welfare inspector come to my home until last week. He wanted to know all about my website which has my miniature horses on it and also my dachshunds which I sometimes breed so the money from the puppies can pay for our grazing, hay etc. I have severe fibromyalgia and worsening back problems, which my dr feels is helped by me having to care for my horses, however, I don't bred the hoses much now that they are so hard to sell. My questions are: is it normal for an inspector to come to the house to question me about all this? How would he have known about my website or is someone trying to cause trouble? Am I likely to be in trouble for having a hobby that sometimes makes money... Even though it barely covers the cost of paying for that hobby? Thanks in advance for any help with this.


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## aristotle (8 Apr 2014)

I'd assume having undeclared income maybe a problem with the social welfare as well as revenue (assuming you have not been doing tax returns?).


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## emeralds (8 Apr 2014)

I assume that DSP inspectors google names to see what gets thrown up. If your name came up in a google search and that leads to your website where you advertise horses and dogs for sale (presuming that is what you do) then it would be the normal thing for the inspector to decide to check it out. Have you ever declared the income from the puppy sales?


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## Gerry Canning (8 Apr 2014)

ccdebtor; 
After 10+ years, I would think you were due an inspection whether you have dogs or not.
DSP inspectors are not ogres and if you have enough receipts etc to show your {work} has no income ,they will be fair. 
From what you say , I do not see trouble .
Answer as best you can, any inspector hates people dodging questions.


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## ccdebtor (8 Apr 2014)

I was quite happy to answer all his questions and I don't make as much money from my pups as the horses and dogs cost me.. It just helps offset the costs of keeping the horses.


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## RainyDay (8 Apr 2014)

ccdebtor said:


> I was quite happy to answer all his questions and I don't make as much money from my pups as the horses and dogs cost me.. It just helps offset the costs of keeping the horses.



Just to be clear, you don't get to 'offset' income against your hobbies. If my hobby is going to the pub, can I claim that income from nixers is offset against my hobby, and therefore isn't relevant for means test? No, I cant.


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## pudds (8 Apr 2014)

> I have severe fibromyalgia and worsening back problems, which my dr feels is *helped *by me having to care for my horses,



Did you not mean 'hinder' there. My partner has fibromyalgia, and scoliosis (spinal problems) I don't know how anyone with these problems or back problems which are getting worse can look after horses or do you have plenty of help.


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## ccdebtor (9 Apr 2014)

pudds said:


> Did you not mean 'hinder' there. My partner has fibromyalgia, and scoliosis (spinal problems) I don't know how anyone with these problems or back problems which are getting worse can look after horses or do you have plenty of help.




I had always had horses but unable to ride anymore...so now I have the miniatures and drive one of them in a little cart. I also suffer from scoliosis and now sciatica and if it wasn't for the horses I would rarely get out of bed!!   My husband does all the hard work and I do the training etc on the days I am able, it keeps me active, distracted from the pain and helps with my depression, so no, I don't mean hinder...I mean help.


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## ccdebtor (9 Apr 2014)

Rainy day, people on DA are allowed to earn up to €120 per week if your dr thinks its beneficial to your health...hardly the same as going to the pub, plus the money I get from the 3-4 pups (sometimes only 1 or 2) I sell and the odd horse if Im lucky is money from my hobby FOR my hobby so not the same as your comparison at all.


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## Bronte (9 Apr 2014)

RainyDay said:


> Just to be clear, you don't get to 'offset' income against your hobbies. If my hobby is going to the pub, can I claim that income from nixers is offset against my hobby, and therefore isn't relevant for means test? No, I cant.


 
This is not the same at all, she is obviously not making any money.  Paying out 5K in feed, bedding etc, and selling for 4K is not a profitable anything.  Any business is allowed offset it's costs before tax comes into the picture.  

The OP sounds like she has a terrible disease, if having this hobby, which seems to be generating zero, but helps her physically and mentally, and here doctor, the expert agrees I cannot see how a non medical person from social welfare could think otherwise.  In any case they should surely show some compassion.  I imagine this is just a routine check up that they have to do and the OP should not worry.


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## RainyDay (9 Apr 2014)

ccdebtor said:


> Rainy day, people on DA are allowed to earn up to €120 per week if your dr thinks its beneficial to your health...hardly the same as going to the pub, plus the money I get from the 3-4 pups (sometimes only 1 or 2) I sell and the odd horse if Im lucky is money from my hobby FOR my hobby so not the same as your comparison at all.



You're right, going to the pub was a poor example. But replace that with any other hobby - stamp collecting or whatever. You don't get to allocate your income from one business against another business/hobby all together. This is hiding your income.

Thanks for pointing out the level of income allowed for DA. I wasn't aware of this, and this could be very relevant in your case.



Bronte said:


> This is not the same at all, she is obviously not making any money.  Paying out 5K in feed, bedding etc, and selling for 4K is not a profitable anything.  Any business is allowed offset it's costs before tax comes into the picture.


That's not the case here. She has income on one hobby/business that she is allocating against losses on another hobby/business. To be fair to all SW recipients, this income is income, and needs to be treated and declared as income. 

The fact that she makes a loss on the other hobby/business is her own issue, and not one for the taxpayer to subsidise.



Bronte said:


> The OP sounds like she has a terrible disease, if having this hobby, which seems to be generating zero, but helps her physically and mentally, and here doctor, the expert agrees I cannot see how a non medical person from social welfare could think otherwise.  In any case they should surely show some compassion.  I imagine this is just a routine check up that they have to do and the OP should not worry.


Yes, I agree, it sounds like a terrible disease, and I can see the physical and mental benefits that could arise from these hobbies, but all recipients should be treated fairly. If hobbies are allowed as legitimate expenses, this should be the case for everybody.


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## pudds (9 Apr 2014)

ccdebtor said:


> *Rainy day, people on DA are allowed to earn up to €120 per week if your dr thinks its beneficial to your health*...hardly the same as going to the pub, plus the money I get from the 3-4 pups (sometimes only 1 or 2) I sell and the odd horse if Im lucky is money from my hobby FOR my hobby so not the same as your comparison at all.



that is very true but did you not notify the department about this hobby, there is an obligation on you to do so.



> The application for the employment to be considered rehabilitative must be made to the department and should be sent in as soon as the employment commences. In the case of Community Employment Schemes, approval is normally given on foot of certification of placement by FAS.
> 
> In the case of other employment or self-employment *a letter is required from the person's own medical doctor certifying the rehabilitative nature of the employment *plus a letter from the employer describing the nature of the proposed employment, the number of hours being worked and the level of remuneration for the work. Where an application for employment to be considered rehabilitative is received, it may be forwarded to one of the Departments Medical Assesors for his decision on the rehabilitative aspects of the proposed employment.


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## ccdebtor (10 Apr 2014)

I really appreciate all your comments, (especially yours Bronte :-D) thank you for taking the time to reply.


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## Bronte (10 Apr 2014)

RainyDay said:


> That's not the case here. She has income on one hobby/business that she is allocating against losses on another hobby/business.
> 
> The fact that she makes a loss on the other hobby/business is her own issue, and not one for the taxpayer to subsidise.
> 
> ...


 
What two businesses, it's horses and dogs, that's one business, animals/breeding/farming.  And it doesn't sound much of a business if it's not making any money.


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## RainyDay (10 Apr 2014)

We’re arguing about semantics now. Who decides what is 1 business and what is 2 businesses. If 1 hobby/business  (the dos) is advertised on a website and the horse hobby/business is not, does that make them separate businesses?
Regardless, it’s not unreasonable for Social Protection to want visibility to income from one business or part of a business, given that they’ve seen adverts for that business.


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## elcato (10 Apr 2014)

> We’re arguing about semantics now.


And that's not like you at all at all


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## so-crates (10 Apr 2014)

It may not be semantics, if the doctor's letter is specific to horses they would be entitled to view raising puppies for sale as a separate business.


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## ccdebtor (12 Apr 2014)

The drs letter is about both and both are on my website, both as hobbies that sometimes produce offspring which is for sale. Hope that helps.


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## RainyDay (12 Apr 2014)

cashier said:


> This is a lessons to others who may have similiar websites while on social welfare payments.



Or more importantly, a lesson to others who may have similar income while on social welfare payments.


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