# Irish staycation 2020/2021 Pros and Cons, will you be tempted?



## Mapara

Hi with this Covid 19 putting a trip overseas almost impossible this summer I've been looking around at some hotel breaks and it seems that a lot of the hotels have increased there prices for overnight stays and with all the new guidelines I'm finding it hard to see the attraction,I think I might hold out for an Autumn break overseas,What are you guys planing.


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## gipimann

I've booked a 2 night stay in Co Wexford for late September, I availed of a pigsback.com deal, which made it good value. 
I'll worry about the guidelines nearer the time!

Have a look at mydealpage.com for details of all short break deals from the various deal sites.


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## odyssey06

Will be a staycation for me, but renting a holiday home near Carlingford with a view of the sea. Don't fancy hotels with all the current hassle and regs.


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## DeeKie

We’ve a week in Kerry booked for August.


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## Saavy99

Going to stay home for the summer,  and heading off to the sun for the winter.


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## ATC110

Staycation...do you mean going on holiday in Ireland?


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## Saavy99

ATC110 said:


> Staycation...do you mean going on holiday in Ireland?



Yes that what it means, holiday in your own country rather than going abroad.


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## torblednam

ATC110 said:


> Staycation...do you mean going on holiday in Ireland?



Staycations became a thing during the last financial meltdown, it's been in common usage for over a decade (added to the OED in 2010)...


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## elcato

torblednam said:


> Staycations became a thing during the last financial meltdown


Yeah - it's the new normal now


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## ATC110

torblednam said:


> Staycations became a thing during the last financial meltdown, it's been in common usage for over a decade (added to the OED in 2010)...



It's an absurd term as if holidaying abroad is the rule and at home the exception.

It's far from a "staycation" many Irish people were reared. Talk about losing the run of themselves .


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## Mrs Vimes

I remember reading a few years ago when the word first entered the lexicon that in the US (whence it came) it refered to spending your vacation at home but doing day trips to nearby tourist attractions and eating out more. In that context it would be used only if you were sleeping at home most nights with perhaps one or two overnights elsewhere.


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## Saavy99

Government considering gifting €500 'staycation' voucher to households
					

The scheme would include tourism activities as well as hotels and restaurants




					www.corkbeo.ie
				




We wouldn't say no


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## AlbacoreA

Mrs Vimes said:


> I remember reading a few years ago when the word first entered the lexicon that in the US (whence it came) it refered to spending your vacation at home but doing day trips to nearby tourist attractions and eating out more. In that context it would be used only if you were sleeping at home most nights with perhaps one or two overnights elsewhere.



It has become to have more than one meaning.









						Staycation - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## AlbacoreA

ATC110 said:


> It's an absurd term as if holidaying abroad is the rule and at home the exception.
> 
> It's far from a "staycation" many Irish people were reared. Talk about losing the run of themselves .



While I partly agree with you. Every generation is far more widely traveled than the last. Travel is more accessible if you can afford it. But in the last decade we have seen increasing numbers of people less well off than the previous generation. The disparity in wealth had a general trend of narrowing but is now widening. 

That will have had an impact on people's ability to travel and take holidays.


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## Drakon

Mrs Vimes said:


> I remember reading a few years ago when the word first entered the lexicon that in the US (whence it came) it refered to spending your vacation at home but doing day trips to nearby tourist attractions and eating out more. In that context it would be used only if you were sleeping at home most nights with perhaps one or two overnights elsewhere.



Yes, that’s my understanding of “staycation”.

We don’t use the word “vacation” here much and tend to use it as a synonym to “holiday”.
In the USA there is a subtle difference between the two. 
When I worked there I remember asking a colleague, “what are you doing for your holiday?”.  He looked at me bemused, and a few moments later said, “oh? Ah, I understand you now, you mean my vacation!”.
A holiday is a bank holiday weekend. 
A vacation is your annual two week break from work. 

As for staycation, this is a “stay at home vacation”, or to use Irish terminology, “stay in your own house (PPR) holiday”.
Given that about 80% of Americans don’t have passports, “stay at home” means “stay at your house (ie where you live).

(Of course, “Stay At Home” has different connotations in 2020).


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## Drakon

AlbacoreA said:


> It has become to have more than one meaning.



Should we use it in it’s original meaning or the British way?

I suppose it’s like that whole homely vs homely debate?


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## Drakon

Steducation, anyone?
Stay at home education! AKA Homeschooling.


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## Drakon

Do you have children in school? 
There have been suggestions of the schools returning in early August for a few weeks of catch-up prior to the return to (new) normal new school year.


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## Sanparom

Drakon said:


> Do you have children in school?
> There have been suggestions of the schools returning in early August for a few weeks of catch-up prior to the return to (new) normal new school year.



I am a teacher and I've heard nothing about this. Where did you hear that?


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## Drakon

I think it was Morning Ireland. Definitely RTÉ Radio One.


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## Drakon

Actually, it was Today with Sarah McInerney. I’m usually steducating and don’t get to hear her show but decided on a day off for the kids (and daddy).
Was in the jeep from 10:40 on, so around that time.


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## Drakon

RTÉ Radio
					






					www.rte.ie
				




The article starts at 48:00. 
They discuss reopening the schools earlier than planned in August, at 54:00


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## nad

Hiring a camper van might be another option..maybe a little more independence with that.


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## Marco 1972

we are hiring a camper van (for 2 @1500 for 8 nights) probably more for larger home to accommodate children. Pitchup.ie is good for campsites you can stay at . Also simply google towns/villages and find out parking areas and local attractions , finding south coast very good.


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## rayn

Just spent a few hours online checking hotel holidays in Ireland. Usually have a September break every year.
Prices would appear to be 30 - 50% higher this year especially in 4/5 Star hotels. 
Checked hotels abroad and similar story. 
Surely they want “bums on seats” and should be offering lower prices. I’m going to wait a while!


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## Allpartied

Marco 1972 said:


> we are hiring a camper van (for 2 @1500 for 8 nights) probably more for larger home to accommodate children. Pitchup.ie is good for campsites you can stay at . Also simply google towns/villages and find out parking areas and local attractions , finding south coast very good.



It always sounded nice to me, but the more I think about it, (maybe the older I get) it is losing it's attraction. 
1500 Euros is quite a sum for 8 days.  It would certainly pay for some very comfortable guesthouses, B&B. Nice cooked breakfast, maybe dinner too. 
Then when I see the "extras" windscreen cover, chemical toilets and the thoughts of driving a big van around some of Ireland's rural roads, it becomes even less attractive. 
Good luck though and let us know how it goes.


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## odyssey06

rayn said:


> Just spent a few hours online checking hotel holidays in Ireland. Usually have a September break every year.
> Prices would appear to be 30 - 50% higher this year especially in 4/5 Star hotels.
> Checked hotels abroad and similar story.
> Surely they want “bums on seats” and should be offering lower prices. I’m going to wait a while!



Interesting, maybe they figure they'll get enough people in the 'compressed' holiday season, so they are trying to make up several months worth of revenue in that shortened season.


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## Steven Barrett

We've been looking at places in Ireland for up to a week this year and can't get over the prices. More expensive than going to France/ Spain and we don't have to pay for ferry/ flights.


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## PaddyBloggit

SBarrett said:


> We've been looking at places in Ireland for up to a week this year and can't get over the prices. More expensive than going to France/ Spain and we don't have to pay for ferry/ flights.



Looks like the good old attitude of charge 'em high is starting again. I guess they want all their lost profits back immediately!


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## Marco 1972

l get your point about the cost of  motorhome hire, your right too as that's only for the smallest model available. It's something we always wanted to do and to be honest gave up quite a while ago looking for value for money  in this state for holidays. It's only Covid that has forced the hand, otherwise would have been going to continent for weather and food....


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## Gordon Gekko

Should businesses that have had no revenue for the last few months simply ignore the law of supply and demand?

There are a finite number of nice hotels and lots of people with money who are compelled to stay in Ireland this year.

Why wouldn’t prices be anything other than higher than normal?


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## Early Riser

Given the re-opening guidelines I guess their costs will be higher (and maybe capacity reduced):

[broken link removed]


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## Drakon

SBarrett said:


> We've been looking at places in Ireland for up to a week this year and can't get over the prices. More expensive than going to France/ Spain and we don't have to pay for ferry/ flights.


When I was single I’d always go on a foreign holiday. Neither holidaying in Ireland nor, heaven forbid, a staycation, ever entered my consciousness.
Now I’ve kids it’s a different story. Have never been abroad with the family. It’s a completed different dynamic. 25’C today and they’re struggling. 
And at least when you’re holidaying in Ireland, you pack the car, drive, get there, unpack it. No lugging baggage from car to shuttle to trolley, to drop off, etc. And the kids get to bring their bikes, and body boards and beach toys, and, and, and.  

Three bedroom house in Connemara, sleeps five, €1,200 for two weeks (arts week and race week). Got an extra day gratis last year as the previous holiday makers vacated a day early.


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## Drakon

nad said:


> Hiring a camper van might be another option..maybe a little more independence with that.



I considered buying a camper van a few years ago but my wife put me off it.

A friend of hers has one and you need to have a car, or at the very least a bicycle with you. For example, if you wake up in the morning and need bread, or fresh milk, you need the car/bike to go get it. If you’re intending to take the campervan to the shop, you have to tidying up everything, secure it, etc., etc. There’s no such thing as “nipping out” unless you walk/drive/cycle. Tidying up kids’ toys/balls/books every morning doesn’t make for a relaxing holiday. 
Then, of course, there’s no “freedom of the road” like you have in the USA or Australia. You have to stay in a campsite in Ireland. 
Remember that British broadcaster, of Irish parentage, Craig something? I think he did a few travel shows.
He did a two week campervan holiday in Ireland with his family. I can’t remember if it was a strictly private holiday or part of his career.
Anyway, he tried parking overnight in beach car parks, and beauty spot lay-bys, etc.
Abandoned it all after a few days. In the middle of the night if I recall correctly. Scourged every night by boy racers doing donuts and similar activities. Screeching tyres and sprayed gravel. No sleep and constant fear. Paying for accommodation on wheels AND accommodation in a campsite.


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## Drakon

Craig Doyle!


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## Steven Barrett

Drakon said:


> I considered buying a camper van a few years ago but my wife put me off it.
> 
> A friend of hers has one and you need to have a car, or at the very least a bicycle with you. For example, if you wake up in the morning and need bread, or fresh milk, you need the car/bike to go get it. If you’re intending to take the campervan to the shop, you have to tidying up everything, secure it, etc., etc. There’s no such thing as “nipping out” unless you walk/drive/cycle. Tidying up kids’ toys/balls/books every morning doesn’t make for a relaxing holiday.
> Then, of course, there’s no “freedom of the road” like you have in the USA or Australia. You have to stay in a campsite in Ireland.
> Remember that British broadcaster, of Irish parentage, Craig something? I think he did a few travel shows.
> He did a two week campervan holiday in Ireland with his family. I can’t remember if it was a strictly private holiday or part of his career.
> Anyway, he tried parking overnight in beach car parks, and beauty spot lay-bys, etc.
> Abandoned it all after a few days. In the middle of the night if I recall correctly. Scourged every night by boy racers doing donuts and similar activities. Screeching tyres and sprayed gravel. No sleep and constant fear. Paying for accommodation on wheels AND accommodation in a campsite.



You are supposed to stay in a campsite everywhere. You can plug in to the electricity supply, can empty the tank and have showers, toilets etc in the campsites. You also have a small shop for the things like bread and milk. But I do understand what you are saying. The other alternative is a caravan, so you can go off in the car but then when moving, it's harder to drive a car & caravan than a campervan. 

Travelled around Germany in one with a 3 year old and a 6 month old. Had loads of fun with it. The camp sites there had tons of facilities and were all really clean. Also travelled around New Zealand in one. There is that feeling of being exposed when you just park up in a car park for the night but as I said, you're not supposed to.


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## Steven Barrett

Gordon Gekko said:


> Should businesses that have had no revenue for the last few months simply ignore the law of supply and demand?
> 
> There are a finite number of nice hotels and lots of people with money who are compelled to stay in Ireland this year.
> 
> Why wouldn’t prices be anything other than higher than normal?



That is true but when compared to other parts of Europe, they are MUCH more expensive. No guarantee of the weather either and with social distancing, you'll be stuck in the hotel room/ house. 




Drakon said:


> Three bedroom house in Connemara, sleeps five, €1,200 for two weeks (arts week and race week). Got an extra day gratis last year as the previous holiday makers vacated a day early.



You'll get 4/5 days for that price this year.


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## Drakon

I’m referring to 2020. Roll on Sat July 18


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## Protocol

Gordon Gekko said:


> Should businesses that have had no revenue for the last few months simply ignore the law of supply and demand?
> 
> There are a finite number of nice hotels and lots of people with money who are compelled to stay in Ireland this year.
> 
> Why wouldn’t prices be anything other than higher than normal?




Fair enough, more demand means higher prices.

But the same firms are very quick to complain, and request Govt support, when the situation is reversed.


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## Sanparom

We're not going anywhere. We had originally planned to take the boat to France, as we do most years, but not now. The thoughts of going away (Ireland or abroad) while we're still in the height of social distancing, just don't appeal. I'd rather save the money for now and hopefully go next year. Strangely, I'm actually looking forward to spending time at home and getting more jobs done around the house.


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## Drakon

After watching Claire Byrne Live last night, and seeing my neighbour (The Turtle, we call him) in the park with his three young children, 
I’d say many Irish families will be either holidaying in Ireland or chancing abroad. 
The schools have been closed since 12th March. Many households have had one or both parents at home, without any friends or family or au pairs or child-minders or crèches or babysitters. 
The last three months have been one very long staycation and few are going to want a staycation, no matter how cheap it is.


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## Drakon

As for the expense of holidaying in Ireland, many who are in employment have spent very little money in the last three months and are flush.


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## Delboy

Flush or not, I'm not going to pay €200-€300+ per night for a family room in a hotel with no kids club, where you have to book a reservation for breakfast, limited bar and restaurant action, possibly no spa/treatments for herself and a revolving door policy on the swimming pool. Too sterile for me.


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## Steven Barrett

Drakon said:


> *The last three months have been one very long staycation* and few are going to want a staycation, no matter how cheap it is.



Ha! Have you said that to many parents who have taken over the teaching role of their children?!!


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## DublinHead54

Originally we were meant to do a two-week trip to Italy, luckily we had not booked anything. 

I am lucky to have access to a holiday home in the South East, so once travel restrictions are lifted we will probably spend a month of the summer down there.


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## Drakon

SBarrett said:


> Ha! Have you said that to many parents who have taken over the teaching role of their children?!!



That’s what I mean! I’m one of those. 

Steducation, I call it.  
I was so delighted this morning after I was finished with my son and I went to get my daughter started. She was sound asleep on the couch. A duvet-day. Good enough for me. Phew!


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## NoRegretsCoyote

From memory Ireland has something like a 2:1 tourism deficit. Irish tourists abroad spend twice what foreign tourists spend in Ireland.

If Irish people are forced to holiday at home prices will go up.


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## odyssey06

For people who booked pre-covid 19 madness, and their balance is coming due - have you seen any price spikes?
Are the price jumps only on new bookings?


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## Blackrock1

anyone got any recommendations for self catering somewhere that isnt all booked up already?


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## DublinHead54

Blackrock1 said:


> anyone got any recommendations for self catering somewhere that isnt all booked up already?



Wexford? I can recommend Rosslare as a lovely relaxing spot









						Self Catering Holiday Homes in Fethard-on-sea, Co. Wexford | Guide
					

Self-catering holiday homes & holiday cottages in Co. Wexford in stunning holiday destinations such as Fethard-on-sea, Courtown & Rosslare.



					www.tridentholidayhomes.ie
				












						Self Catering Holiday Homes in Rosslare, Co. Wexford | Guide
					

Self-catering holiday homes & holiday cottages in Co. Wexford in stunning holiday destinations such as Rosslare, Courtown & Kilmuckridge.



					www.tridentholidayhomes.ie


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## Blackrock1

im from wexford originally, so rosslare not as interesting for me personally.


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## DublinHead54

Blackrock1 said:


> im from wexford originally, so rosslare not as interesting for me personally.



I'm not but my spouse is and I have fallen in love with the place! I guess West Cork good be a good shout, depends what kind of experience you are after.


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## Bronte

Mapara said:


> Hi with this Covid 19 putting a trip overseas almost impossible this summer I've been looking around at some hotel breaks and it seems that a lot of the hotels have increased there prices for overnight stays and with all the new guidelines I'm finding it hard to see the attraction,I think I might hold out for an Autumn break overseas,What are you guys planing.


There is nothing stopping you going on holiday to some European destinations right now.


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## Bronte

Allpartied said:


> It always sounded nice to me, but the more I think about it, (maybe the older I get) it is losing it's attraction.
> 1500 Euros is quite a sum for 8 days.  It would certainly pay for some very comfortable guesthouses, B&B. Nice cooked breakfast, maybe dinner too.
> Then when I see the "extras" windscreen cover, chemical toilets and the thoughts of driving a big van around some of Ireland's rural roads, it becomes even less attractive.
> Good luck though and let us know how it goes.


I draw the line at chemical toilets. But the idea of being in a big van on an Irish country road with a big lorry approaching me sends the hebe jsybays down my spine.


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## Monbretia

I love the theory of a camper van but couldn't be dealing with the practicalities either.    A fairly near neighbour of mine used to use his to move to the beach 10km away for a lot of the summer, parked up in a small not that well used car park.    I think I'd prefer a camper van for a holiday on my own


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## joer

Mrs joer has picked up some very good hotel deals for July , August , October . She is signed up to their loyalty deals which gives discounts on breaks. Also one-for-all cards are used in a lot of hotels in Ireland. 
We would much prefer hotels to camping breaks.


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## Mapara

With  the rules and guidelines changing almost every week it will be interesting to see what the final guidelines for the hotel industry will be,
as I'd imagine come opening date things might be slightly different than what we think now.


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## joer

I am looking forward to our late July hotel break and to see how different things will be from the last time we stayed there. It should be interesting.


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## Mapara

I've being looking a little bit more into to this and it seems that there is a good demand for hotels with good outside space  especially  gardens and even parks being close by seem to be a big deciding factor in where people are choosing to stay.


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## Purple

elcato said:


> Yeah - it's the new normal now


"New Normal" also became the new normal after the last recession.


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## RichInSpirit

Maybe go camping. Don't have a camper van but do have a tent.


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## Drakon

Purple said:


> "New Normal" also became the new normal after the last recession.



I can’t remember that. I remember TINA and WAWWA.  
There Is No Alternative and We Are Where We Are.


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## Purple

Drakon said:


> I can’t remember that. I remember TINA and WAWWA.
> There Is No Alternative and We Are Where We Are.


They'll be going around in my head all night now (there's not alot else in there).


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## joer

We stayed overnight in the Riu Gresham in Dublin and found it excellent as regards safety for everyone throughout the hotel. People were told on entering the hotel that masks were expected to be worn while walking throughout the hotel. You also had to wear masks while walking throughout the breakfast room and gloves were provided for handling items. I will be happy going back to this hotel and hope other hotels around the country are as good. Very positive experience.


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## Monbretia

Don't forget 'it is what it is'


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## Peanuts20

PatrickSmithUS said:


> Going to visit family at the far end of the country next week but other than that will batten down the hatches and do local day trips.
> 
> Myself and herself my get away for a night but it will be withing an hour of home.



Same as us to be honest. It's just not worth the hassle and the kids get a kick out of a picnic from the car boot.. Holidays 70's style in 2020


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## Sunny

Went to a local hotel for a meal at the weekend. Had to wait outside until collected and shown directly to my table. No problem. Staff wore masks. Fine start. They handed us menus in leather covers which she handled without gloves and handed them to us without gloves. We ordered a bottle of wine for our meal. We were told we couldn't have alcohol until our food arrived. Told we could drink glasses of water. Slightly confusing interpretation of the rules. The food arrived and she proceeded to pour our wine. She walked off with our bottle and we said you can just leave it. She said she wasn't allowed and she would top up our glasses when required. Never came near us and when we queried with another staff member, was told that the wine was gone. When we were finished our main courses, we were asked if we wanted desert. I answered no but my wife was having one. I was told that as my main course was €18, I had to buy one as there was a minimum spend of €20 per heard. I said I wasn't informed of that and got a shrug of shoulders. When I asked why alcohol wasn't included, I was told that they were the regulations. I said €9 spend was the regulation and I got another shrug of the shoulders. Got a reminder with 15 minutes to go just as the desserts got delivered. Even though the restaurant was empty apart from one other table at the this stage, two staff members stood over us waiting for us to leave. I complained to the manager on the way out. I just got a lecture on covid, regulations and the new reality. Apparently we should count ourselves as lucky that we could spend our money there. 

I know this is only one hotel. I have heard others who had lovely meals out but I have to say, I wouldn't be rushing to spend money again for a while.


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## fidelcastro

Drakon said:


> I think it was Morning Ireland. Definitely RTÉ Radio One.


Two hopes of that happening...Bob Hope is one and.....


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## DeeKie

Sunny said:


> Went to a local hotel for a meal at the weekend. Had to wait outside until collected and shown directly to my table. No problem. Staff wore masks. Fine start. They handed us menus in leather covers which she handled without gloves and handed them to us without gloves. We ordered a bottle of wine for our meal. We were told we couldn't have alcohol until our food arrived. Told we could drink glasses of water. Slightly confusing interpretation of the rules. The food arrived and she proceeded to pour our wine. She walked off with our bottle and we said you can just leave it. She said she wasn't allowed and she would top up our glasses when required. Never came near us and when we queried with another staff member, was told that the wine was gone. When we were finished our main courses, we were asked if we wanted desert. I answered no but my wife was having one. I was told that as my main course was €18, I had to buy one as there was a minimum spend of €20 per heard. I said I wasn't informed of that and got a shrug of shoulders. When I asked why alcohol wasn't included, I was told that they were the regulations. I said €9 spend was the regulation and I got another shrug of the shoulders. Got a reminder with 15 minutes to go just as the desserts got delivered. Even though the restaurant was empty apart from one other table at the this stage, two staff members stood over us waiting for us to leave. I complained to the manager on the way out. I just got a lecture on covid, regulations and the new reality. Apparently we should count ourselves as lucky that we could spend our money there.
> 
> I know this is only one hotel. I have heard others who had lovely meals out but I have to say, I wouldn't be rushing to spend money again for a while.


Where was this? That’s appalling.


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## Marsha25

@Sunny that's nuts. We stayed in a hotel at the weekend and had dinner there one night. I don't drink but my husband was given his drink straight away.  We ate and he had 2 more drinks.  After 90 minutes I thought we'd have to leave but while the waitress cleared the last of our dishes she asked him if he'd like another drink.  There was no rush on us leaving at all.  The restaurant wasn't full.  Perhaps it was different as we were staying there but your experience was downright rude.  Had you ordered the bottle of wine?  How could they claim it was gone if it was your bottle?  I hope you didn't pay for it.


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## Saavy99

Gordon Gekko said:


> Should businesses that have had no revenue for the last few months simply ignore the law of supply and demand?
> 
> There are a finite number of nice hotels and lots of people with money who are compelled to stay in Ireland this year.
> 
> Why wouldn’t prices be anything other than higher than normal?


Friend of mine was down at Bunratty at weekend, he said place was deserted.


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## Ravima

_Went to a local hotel for a meal at the weekend. Had to wait outside until collected and shown directly to my table. No problem. Staff wore masks. Fine start. They handed us menus in leather covers which she handled without gloves and handed them to us without gloves. We ordered a bottle of wine for our meal. We were told we couldn't have alcohol until our food arrived. Told we could drink glasses of water. Slightly confusing interpretation of the rules. The food arrived and she proceeded to pour our wine. She walked off with our bottle and we said you can just leave it. She said she wasn't allowed and she would top up our glasses when required. Never came near us and when we queried with another staff member, was told that the wine was gone. When we were finished our main courses, we were asked if we wanted desert. I answered no but my wife was having one. I was told that as my main course was €18, I had to buy one as there was a minimum spend of €20 per heard. I said I wasn't informed of that and got a shrug of shoulders. When I asked why alcohol wasn't included, I was told that they were the regulations. I said €9 spend was the regulation and I got another shrug of the shoulders. Got a reminder with 15 minutes to go just as the desserts got delivered. Even though the restaurant was empty apart from one other table at the this stage, two staff members stood over us waiting for us to leave. I complained to the manager on the way out. I just got a lecture on covid, regulations and the new reality. Apparently we should count ourselves as lucky that we could spend our money there.

I know this is only one hotel. I have heard others who had lovely meals out but I have to say, I wouldn't be rushing to spend money again for a while._

Did you pay for the wine, without complaint? I'd be naming and shaming this place for shoddy service.


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## Boyd

I've had both experiences, booked a table 8-10pm in a pub, we were still there at 2am. Went to a restaurant at 5.30pm and felt under severe time pressure and left at exactly 7.15pm. Seems to vary hugely per establishment.
On a side note, Irish Times had travel article about Lisbon where author said hotel rooms were 50% reduced in price to attract people. Usually Irish hotels have the opposite idea so I can only assume Irish hotels are double the normal price these days?


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## roker

Mapara said:


> Hi with this Covid 19 putting a trip overseas almost impossible this summer I've been looking around at some hotel breaks and it seems that a lot of the hotels have increased there prices for overnight stays and with all the new guidelines I'm finding it hard to see the attraction,I think I might hold out for an Autumn break overseas,What are you guys planing.


I always go for an autumn break to get to the sunshine when it is grotty here


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## Saavy99

roker said:


> I always go for an autumn break to get to the sunshine when it is grotty here



Pretty grotty here now too.


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## IrishGunner

Heading to Donegal soon and lets hope the weather picks up had to cancel trip to UK but did not lose money 

Wondering what the pubs and restaurants are going to be like but wont be going for any "sessions" 

Looking forward to seeing more of my own country after travelling the world


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## Donald

Monbretia said:


> Don't forget 'it is what it is'


Hi, would you happen to have a copy of Ulster bank T and Cs from 2006? I have lost mine. We have an offset mortgage since 2006. Originally capital and interest payments were taken off the balance. From two years ago no capital repayments have been taken by the bank. Thanks donal


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## Duke of Marmalade

We have a humble abode in South of France.  Usually go there around March to make sure things are okay after the winter, but not this year.  Ryanair eventually started flights a week or two ago and we decided to take the risk and booked for a 9.30 a.m. flight last Monday - almost essential travel for us by this stage.
The airport experience was truly eerie. Dublin Airport almost deserted. I need a beer or two to make those things fly but was told I must buy a breakfast for €9 and have it in front of me.  Didn't want a breakfast but toyed with idea of having a plate of €9 worth of rashers in front of me.  In the end I bought a wee bottle of Vodka in the shop which helpfully supplies small plastic drinking glasses.
Boarding the flight was no problem.  No drink on flight.  Usual melee disembarking with everyone squashed up against each other.
Marseille airport totally deserted.  Told that only passengers and staff allowed in.  This was not looking promising.
But since then everything is perfect.  Some people wearing masks and you have to go round the supermarkets one way but otherwise the restaurants are buzzing.  Beaches a little less crowded but that is a good thing.
From what I read on this thread staycations are not for me.


----------



## Monbretia

Donald said:


> Hi, would you happen to have a copy of Ulster bank T and Cs from 2006? I have lost mine. We have an offset mortgage since 2006. Originally capital and interest payments were taken off the balance. From two years ago no capital repayments have been taken by the bank. Thanks donal



I can't remember what date mine is and I'm not at home to check but it's a big booklet anyway so would need to find a specific section.   

What you say is not a feature of the mortgage and I don't know why or how it would happen, when you say there have been no capital payments has your balance been increasing all this time?    Have they charged you just the interest?


----------



## Bronco Lane

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Usual melee disembarking with everyone squashed up against each other.



Was your flight to Marseille full?



Duke of Marmalade said:


> the restaurants are buzzing.



Is there social distancing in restaurants?

Did you feel as safe in France as you did in Ireland or were you looking over your shoulder re Covid?


----------



## Duke of Marmalade

Bronco Lane said:


> Was your flight to Marseille full?


No.  We always book seats A and C, hoping that B is left free.  Usually backfires but this time it worked.  I would say about 2/3rds full.





> Is there social distancing in restaurants?


Yes 1 metre but you would hardly notice the difference.  They are allowed to spread out a bit more into the street.


> Did you feel as safe in France as you did in Ireland or were you looking over your shoulder re Covid?


It all feels fairly normal, the French are still doing that kissing on the cheek thing they do, though maybe that is between people in a unit.  Got my hair cut yesterday.  The hairdresser wore a mask and insisted that I do as well for which she charged me an extra €2.


----------



## joe sod

Duke of Marmalade said:


> I need a beer or two to make those things fly but was told I must buy a breakfast for €9 and have it in front of me.


really illustrates how ridiculous the 9euro meal rule is, especially when we are trying to stop people going abroad on holidays. Whats the point in staying at home when all the activities are so restricted.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade

joe sod said:


> really illustrates how ridiculous the 9euro meal rule is, especially when we are trying to stop people going abroad on holidays. Whats the point in staying at home when all the activities are so restricted.


Yes, very silly.  But one can see how it arose.  Pubs as we traditionally understand them seem "riskier" than restaurants as we traditionally understand them and so there was a certain logic to their reopening in a later phase.
But then we face the obvious question "what is the difference between a pub that sells food and a restaurant that sells drink?" ergo we find ourselves with a makie up definition of the former.
Anyway the anomaly is due to disappear on July 20th.


----------



## joer

I did not go to a pub but I think that the 9 euro meal makes no sense . I would rather go to a restaurant for food and have a drink or two there.
I would like to be able to have food if I choose to not by having to .


----------



## Early Riser

joer said:


> I did not go to a pub but I think that the 9 euro meal makes no sense . I would rather go to a restaurant for food and have a drink or two there.
> I would like to be able to have food if I choose to not by having to .



 The €9 charge is there because some pubs insisted that they were effectively restaurants and, therefore, should open at the same time. Just because a few are flaunting the rules doesn't negate this requirement  (although it was entirely foreseeable that "issues" would arise). 

Pubs aren't scheduled to open until the 20th - and I would not be certain of that going ahead. Many will be fine but many more will disregard the rules and enforcement will be impossible.


----------



## Clamball

Been on holiday in west Cork.  We rented a house (been here before) and were asked to bring all our own bedding and towels which was new but still happy to comply.

 Went to  one pub last weekend (which always felt more like a restaurant than a pub). Booked for 6.30, limited menu but still the same food, quality was not great, but pub had a lot of people in and out looking for a table or takeaway.  Did not really enjoy myself.  Staff made no effort at masks or social distancing but made a big deal of taking contact phone numbers.

Went to a restaurant mid week, screens around each table, staff wore masks.  Menu only on wall, very nice food, much better experience.

tried another pub this weekend, sat outside so no need to book.  Did not order alcohol so did not need to get food, some others in the family did.   Pub was a little lax on the food vs alcohol rule, but closed promptly at 7.30 pm.  Still every table had a mixture of food/drink, but they definitely were happy to have customers.   heard of another pub with a chipper next door, will serve you drink when they see the chipper receipt and there are lots of outside tables that they will bring the drinks to you while you eat.


----------



## joe sod

I see the aqua dome in tralee is not to reopen now, the corona virus lock down and no visibility on reopening was the final catalyst to close down the facility completely. However the compo culture and the cost of insurance where they needed to have 120 thousand excess to get insured was in the background. They were fearful that the compo culture would extended to people suing for corona virus infections. Ireland had very few of these type of facilities even before this. So this makes holidaying in Ireland much less attractive now, no facilities like aqua dome, pubs still closed and possibly also not reopening next week. Oh and we have our Atlantic weather back again, sunshine every day like we got in April and may is NOT the new normal.


----------



## Purple

IrishGunner said:


> Heading to Donegal soon and lets hope the weather picks up had to cancel trip to UK but did not lose money
> 
> Wondering what the pubs and restaurants are going to be like but wont be going for any "sessions"
> 
> Looking forward to seeing more of my own country after travelling the world


Make sure you don't drive through the UK to get there!


----------



## Mapara

Will the public bars  which I imagine includes the hotel bars  not opening until at least 10th Aug  add to the to the disadvantages of a  holidayn at  home this year?


----------



## Coldwarrior

Mapara said:


> includes the hotel bars not opening


Hotel bars can open if they serve food, which most do.


----------



## Early Riser

Coldwarrior said:


> Hotel bars can open if they serve food, which most do.



But you will still have to order food there if you want to drink in the bar, I assume?


----------



## Familyman77

I went out and bought a boat. We live in galway and weve been out to the islands on lough corrib, fishing , bbqs etc. The kids love it. The memories created, the views, the enjoyment on the boys faces has covered the cost already and will have it for many a year more. Best small investment ive made


----------



## joer

I think that if you are a resident in a hotel you don,t have to order food with your drink though.


----------



## Coldwarrior

joer said:


> I think that if you are a resident in a hotel you don,t have to order food with your drink though.


Can't find the exact regulation/guideline but pretty sure the same rules apply to hotel residents as everyone else; i.e. they too have to order food to get a drink


----------



## Early Riser

joer said:


> I think that if you are a resident in a hotel you don,t have to order food with your drink though.


 
I know that as a resident you can order drinks from the bar, eg, to your room. I am not sure about ordering drinks to have in the bar unless you are also having a meal.


----------



## joer

As a resident of a hotel you can have a drink without having food. I just found out from a hotel in Dublin.


----------



## DeeKie

Familyman77 said:


> I went out and bought a boat. We live in galway and weve been out to the islands on lough corrib, fishing , bbqs etc. The kids love it. The memories created, the views, the enjoyment on the boys faces has covered the cost already and will have it for many a year more. Best small investment ive made


What sort of boat?


----------



## Familyman77

It's a 16ft Mayland. It has a small cabin up front. Its ideal for us with the 2 little lads.


DeeKie said:


> What sort of boat?


----------



## Mapara

Staycation rebate to be rolled this afternoon,it should be interesting to see how this will work .


----------



## dereko1969

joer said:


> As a resident of a hotel you can have a drink without having food. I just found out from a hotel in Dublin.


You have to order it to your room to be compliant. What you do or where you go with it after it's ordered to your room is not covered in the rules.


----------



## joer

Not in the hotel that I enquired from . As long as your a resident you can order a drink without having food, and in the bar. And stay as long as you like too. This hotel is residents only , which I am in at the moment.


----------



## elcato

dereko1969 said:


> You have to order it to your room to be compliant. What you do or where you go with it after it's ordered to your room is not covered in the rules.





joer said:


> Not in the hotel that I enquired from . As long as your a resident you can order a drink without having food, and in the bar. And stay as long as you like too. This hotel is residents only , which I am in at the moment.


I think it's fair to say that different places interpret the rules differently. Same in pubs that serve food at the moment. Some let you stay all night and others give you the 2 hours.


----------



## odyssey06

elcato said:


> I think it's fair to say that different places interpret the rules differently. Same in pubs that serve food at the moment. Some let you stay all night and others give you the 2 hours.



I think I read the time limit is part of the guidelines for places with less than the recommended 2 metre distancing.
But could be wrong on that.


----------



## Early Riser

I suspect that joer's hotel being "residents only" was a factor in the interpretation of the regulations there (rightly or wrongly).


----------



## joer

I have just inquired from another hotel and residents can have a drink in the residents area only without having food or  have a time limit , after 7 pm ,  which sounds about right to me . If they decide to have a drink in the bar they must order food and can only stay the appropriate time. 
Yes in my case there was no time limit because the hotel that I was in was residents only .


----------



## Drakon

Have been holidaying on the west coast for the last ten days and it’s been great and the whole Covid thing is mostly forgotten. 
For the first time in my life I’m tired of eating fish. Cockles, mussels, limpets and periwinkles from the beach. Cod from the neighbours. €5 for brown crab and spider crab, €10 for lobster. 
Went out to eat last night in a bar that serves food. €50 for two mains, two desserts, two pints and two GnTs. 
The most unCovid experience I’ve had since March.  No masks or face shields, the bar was quiet so the SD was default. No contact tracing sheets. Salt, pepper, etc on the table. 
It could have been 2019. Or 2009.
I’m feeling post-Covid.


----------



## Bronte

Duke of Marmalade said:


> From what I read on this thread staycations are not for me.


Thank heavens we don't live in Ireland. We also went to France.  It was pure bliss.  They were so happy to see tourists and it was much less crowded than it's ever been.  Restaurants bars, activities both water and land based, you name it we did it.  Hardly ever had to wear a mask.  Self catering, everything supplied.  Could come and go as we pleased and everybody was happy. Most French staff couldn't give a fiddlers about masks.  

We can't go to Ireland becuase we'd basically be locked down. No fun in that.  Plus even if you're not locked down there is no way I'd put up with the kind of carry on in the restaurants and bars I'm hearing about on here.  So I'll have to think now about another weeks holiday without flying as I'm not putting up with a mask at the airport for hours on end.


----------



## joer

I hope it stays good for you  Bronte but look how quickly things have changed in Spain, Belgium, Germany.


----------



## Ceist Beag

We went out for a meal at the weekend and found it a very enjoyable experience. There were some tables removed from the floor, maybe about 25% less. However the place felt busy and there was a nice buzz about. The staff all wore face masks but apart from that it felt like a normal night out.
@Bronte you say French staff couldn't give a fiddlers about masks - personally I was happy to see staff wearing masks. It showed a respect for customers and the virus. I would not be happy frequenting a restaurant or bar where the staff didn't give a fiddlers about the virus. Just out of curiousity, were the tables inside or outside?


----------



## Protocol

Drakon said:


> Have been holidaying on the west coast for the last ten days and it’s been great and the whole Covid thing is mostly forgotten.
> Went out to eat last night in a bar that serves food. €50 for two mains, two desserts, two pints and two GnTs.




That sounds like good value.

Mains typically at least 12.50 = 25 minimum
Two desserts = 10 minimum, more likely 12?
Two pints = 8.40 minimum, more likely 9.00
Two G&Ts = 12? minimum

How did you pay 50? Is that in Ireland?


----------



## Drakon

Desserts were definitely €5.50. Apart from pizza they’d three  mains, I think the range was €9.50 to €12. A pint was €4 across the road last year. I’ve no idea what a GnT normally costs.

All tasted great though my dessert was a tad small.

Connemara.


----------



## elcato

Bronte said:


> We can't go to Ireland becuase we'd basically be locked down. No fun in that.


That's because Ireland has a huge amount of scaremongers and fear mongers, always were - they can't use God as stick anymore so they'll use anything else they can get their hands on.


----------



## Saavy99

elcato said:


> - they can't use God as stick anymore so they'll use anything else they can get their hands on.⁷


----------



## Protocol

Drakon said:


> Desserts were definitely €5.50. Apart from pizza they’d three  mains, I think the range was €9.50 to €12. A pint was €4 across the road last year. I’ve no idea what a GnT normally costs.
> 
> Connemara.




Drakon, thank you.

We are going to the Clifden area soon, do you mind if I ask you the name of this pub?


----------



## Bronte

joer said:


> I hope it stays good for you  Bronte but look how quickly things have changed in Spain, Belgium, Germany.


You’re wrong. But I’m not getting into it. Being timed at my meal by a waitress is not to my liking. Or any of the abuses of grown adults as recounted on this thread. I’ve seen far too many trumped up majorettes in this to last me a life time.


----------



## Bronte

dereko1969 said:


> You have to order it to your room to be compliant. What you do or where you go with it after it's ordered to your room is not covered in the rules.


Might as well stay at home so.


----------



## Bronte

Ceist Beag said:


> We went out for a meal at the weekend and found it a very enjoyable experience. There were some tables removed from the floor, maybe about 25% less. However the place felt busy and there was a nice buzz about. The staff all wore face masks but apart from that it felt like a normal night out.
> @Bronte you say French staff couldn't give a fiddlers about masks - personally I was happy to see staff wearing masks. It showed a respect for customers and the virus. I would not be happy frequenting a restaurant or bar where the staff didn't give a fiddlers about the virus. Just out of curiousity, were the tables inside or outside?


Inside and outside. I’ve seen everything. From obsession on the tiny details to not giving a rattling damn. But it’s table service, so different to Ireland in that respect. Particularly as regards bars etc. 

There is no way to stop this virus. No scientific  proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine. A horrendous lockdown, unending. And worst of all our children living this hell. With total economic chaos to come.


----------



## Drakon

Protocol said:


> Drakon, thank you.
> 
> We are going to the Clifden area soon, do you mind if I ask you the name of this pub?


The Shamrock in Roundstone.


----------



## Drakon

I think a lot depends on the type of holiday. The last ten years I’ve been going on self-catering holidays, and the last three in the same house in Roundstone. In the space of two weeks we probably eat dinner out twice. Maybe lunch out three or four times. Connemara lamb or fish cooked in the house most evenings.  Highest quality at the lowest price. There’s a decent cooker and oven in the house so that makes it easier (if only there was a dishwasher).
My sister and her husband spent a couple of nights. We’d one spider crab, two lobsters and three brown crabs for dinner. €30. Just one of these in a restaurant dish would cost €30! Wouldn’t be for everyone, but I love home cooked shellfish. 

Most lunches on the beach. Those disposable BBQ trays are a godsend. Home made beef burgers today. Cheese, ketchup, red onion, jalapeños. Probably best burger I’ve ever eaten.


----------



## Early Riser

Bronte said:


> There is no way to stop this virus. No scientific  proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine. A horrendous lockdown, unending. And worst of all our children living this hell. With total economic chaos to come.



Stopping *all* social interaction outside of individual households would stop the virus but that is in no way practical. But limiting social activity does* limit* the spread of the virus. It then comes down to what level of limitation is practical and acceptable.

We do not have a "horrendous lockdown" now, although we do still have considerable limitation on social and economic life. There is no imminent vaccine. But there is hope for a vaccine but not before next year - as least that is what the medical and scientific experts tell us and I am inclined to put more faith in them. In the meantime there is hope for improving treatments.

If we do not limit the spread of the virus the health service will become overrun with increasing numbers. Apart from more deaths there is increasing evidence that a yet unknown proportion of those who recover from the initial infection will have some level of on-going impairment of function.

Leaving health aside, if the spread of the virus is not contained the schools will not re-open (or will partially or fully close again) and much of the economic life that has resumed will be shuttered again.

I think some level of curtailment in non-essential social and recreational life over the coming months is worth it for the greater societal good. Better to have an ongoing restricted level of social life than another lockdown.

To say that there is no scientific evidence that masks work is nonesense. Why on earth do doctors, nurses and other medical professionals wear them? There is more of a question of the degree to which they work in ordinary social life - probably not to the same extent. But the professional consensus now is that they do add a significantly worthwhile level of protection, especially in enclosed spaces or where distancing is not possible. (Perhaps your paper to the contrary has not as yet fed into the scientific literature? ). No one is suggesting that masks protect every individual in every circumstance but if, as the scientists now say, they help curtail the overall level of spread of infection, then I think that is worthwhile.


----------



## Saavy99

Bronte said:


> There is no way to stop this virus. No scientific  proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine. A horrendous lockdown, unending. And worst of all our children living this hell. With total economic chaos to come.



 Bronte, such stark words... oh the misery of it all....


----------



## Drakon

Whatever about this summer, Christmas will be contentious. As it is, the seasonal flu peaks in January because of Christmas. Travel, drink, grouping, indoors...


----------



## Duke of Marmalade

Bronte said:


> Thank heavens we don't live in Ireland. We also went to France.  It was pure bliss.  They were so happy to see tourists and it was much less crowded than it's ever been.  Restaurants bars, activities both water and land based, you name it we did it.  Hardly ever had to wear a mask.  Self catering, everything supplied.  Could come and go as we pleased and everybody was happy. Most French staff couldn't give a fiddlers about masks.
> 
> We can't go to Ireland becuase we'd basically be locked down. No fun in that.  Plus even if you're not locked down there is no way I'd put up with the kind of carry on in the restaurants and bars I'm hearing about on here.  So I'll have to think now about another weeks holiday without flying as I'm not putting up with a mask at the airport for hours on end.


I agree that France is fine.  But masks in supermarkets are compulsory.  No problem really.


----------



## Bronte

Saavy99 said:


> Bronte, such stark words... oh the misery of it all....


People will change their tune when everybody is out of a job and there are no taxes to pay for anything. If schools can’t reopen why have teachers. If the hospitals cancel surgeries who counts those dead. Do people believe the Covid payment can continue when restaurants, bars, shops, hotels dying on their feet are returning no VAT.

As I said earlier, very dubious legal validity to what is going on at Dublin airport.









						Couple's child benefit stopped after trip abroad
					

Data Protection Commissioner Helen Dixon forced to seek greater clarity   over how personal information is handled at the country's ports and airports.




					www.irishexaminer.com


----------



## joer

Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?


----------



## Saavy99

joer said:


> Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?



She's right, there is no real concrete evidence that a vaccine will be available anytime soon, there's alot of noise alright but don't hold your breath (no pun intended)
40 new cases here tonight, our numbers are going one way and that's upwards.
I'm dreading the coming winter.









						Why we might not get a coronavirus vaccine
					

Politicians have become more cautious about immunisation prospects. They are right to be




					www.google.com


----------



## Saavy99

Drakon said:


> Whatever about this summer, Christmas will be contentious. As it is, the seasonal flu peaks in January because of Christmas. Travel, drink, grouping, indoors...



I very much doubt pubs be opened at Christmas, in fact I can't see them opening at all for the rest of the year.


----------



## Leo

Bronte said:


> No scientific proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine.



Are you Trump in disguise of did you just miss the mass coverage of the studies on the effectiveness of masks? 

When you say no likely vaccine, what are you basing that on?


----------



## dereko1969

Bronte said:


> Might as well stay at home so.


Well we really enjoyed our stay in Ballynahinch Castle, we copied some others and took our dessert course in the lounge, one of the stupid things was that you couldn't close your meal bill and then decide to have another drink, so it kind of kept you drinking!


----------



## Bronte

Leo said:


> Are you Trump in disguise of did you just miss the mass coverage of the studies on the effectiveness of masks?
> 
> When you say no likely vaccine, what are you basing that on?


I have zero interest in what Trump says about anything.  The whole world is trying to find a vaccine but apparently because of the type of virus it is that's nearly impossible. In the same way there is no vaccine for a cold, or the way the vaccine for the flu has to be changed annually and even then isn't a full guarantee, nor close to it,  that you won't get the flu.  

Then there is the fact it takes so long to develop vaccines.

There there is the problem that it's already mutating. 

Followed by rushing out vaccines is not a good idea.  

Then there is the problem of testing.  And distributing. And implementing.  So anyone reading there's going to be a vaccine any time soon is wishful thinking.  

There are millions of articles.  Millions being spent but if you read enough it seems pretty clear to me a vaccine is near impossible.  









						Coronavirus vaccine: UK signs deal with GSK and Sanofi
					

The government signs a fourth deal, securing doses of a treatment being developed by GSK and Sanofi.



					www.bbc.com
				




[broken link removed]









						Covid vaccine update: Those that work - and the others on the way
					

Covid vaccination campaigns are under way in the UK and across the world.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## Bronte

joer said:


> Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?


Yep. I've decided not to care anymore.  If I get it and die so be it.  Meanwhile I'm trying to create as normal a life as I can for me and my family.  So I'm thinking of another holiday.  We have had visitors fly in for the children, the children have or will fly elsewhere etc. 

I'm sure the Duke was able to feel more normal again on his holiday. That's how we felt.  It was wonderful. But we picked somewhere we knew we would be as free as could be.  And self catering is the best way in my book.  Though we did also go for a weekend break in a hotel.  Picked a touristy spot where there was plenty buzz.  Might do that again in a few weeks.  Helps to distract from the monotony of it.  And to avoid that we put a regime in place for school for the children (until the summer) to make life as normal as possible. With plenty of exercise for everybody according to their tastes.  Netflix was a godsend.  Weather brillant too.  So we did lots of BBQ's or pic niq's etc.  Did family quizes each Saturday with family in different parts of Ireland, that went down rather well. 

The poster who went to Connemara had the right idea. Touristy, remote, things to do, self catering. Fun things to do. Getting away. All good.


----------



## Pugmister

Just returned from a four night’s stay in a Wicklow golf hotel. Really noticeable change in service levels due to Covid restrictions and at time’s there seemed to be inconsistencies between staff members.

Rooms are not cleaned daily as per the norm. A request can be made but you must vacate the room for a number of hours to allow cleaners in full PPE to enter. We didn’t bother and instead requested fresh towels daily.

Swimming pool required a booking and only limited numbers allowed at any one time for 60 mins. This actually worked quite well.

Breakfast, lunch and dinner time slots needed to be booked in advance. This isn’t too bad but hotel was operating with a reduced menu and reduced staff so service was quite slow for lunch and dinner. A buffet style breakfast was operational but rather than take your own portions there were servers at each station. No children were allowed to queue for food also.

Consumption of alcohol was no problem without ordering food in communal areas such as the lounges and lobbies however social distancing was in place and strictly adhered to.

Masks were not required to be worn in any areas and I didn’t see any guests voluntarily wearing masks. On the whole it was nice to get away for a few days but the price we paid felt a little steep in comparison to what we got. This was in part due to Covid restrictions and also because I feel the hotel charges 5 star prices but is not a 5 star property and needs a refurbishment.


----------



## Leo

Bronte said:


> There are millions of articles. Millions being spent but if you read enough it seems pretty clear to me a vaccine is near impossible.



Gosh, all those PhDs must feel silly developing the impossible, and we know big pharma just likes throwing billions into research of dead ends. None of the links provided go anywhere towards suggesting 'a vaccine is near impossible'.

Nothing to back up your 'No scientific proof that masks work' claim?


----------



## elcato

This thread should now be closed seeing as someone has mentioned the T word.


----------



## Bronte

Leo said:


> Gosh, all those PhDs must feel silly developing the impossible, and we know big pharma just likes throwing billions into research of dead ends. None of the links provided go anywhere towards suggesting 'a vaccine is near impossible'.
> 
> Nothing to back up your 'No scientific proof that masks work' claim?


Nowhere did I say 'big pharma' just likes throwing billions into research dead ends. Pharma will take as much money as governments will send them by the bucketload.  When do you think there will be a vaccine Leo?

We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key.  What changed the 'science' on that.  

I don't see how the magic money tree is going to keep all this going either.  No end in sight to masses of people unemployed getting a government payment, out of drizzling amounts of taxation income.  The people on PUP should be getting their redundancies any day now.  Becuase it looks to me like the business that could just about keep going are going to go bust.  Bars, then restaurants, then coffee shops when workers no longer work in cities, then taxis, then private bus operators, then airlines.   If nobody is working in the cities all the small businessess that support them will no longer be needed.  And if people have no jobs there will be less money.  Sounds like a big recession to me.


----------



## Grizzly

Bronte said:


> There there is the problem that it's already mutating.


Is it?


----------



## Early Riser

Bronte said:


> We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key. What changed the 'science' on that.



We were not told they were pointless but that outside of clinical settings they were of little value. Also, infected people at home and those in contact with them were advised to use masks. But a number of things changed since then.

Science advances by evidence. It is not about looking into a book that says "masks" or "no masks" and sticking to that. As this was a new virus it took time for evidence to accumulate. Examples, that people who become infected can transmit the virus before they show any symptoms, that people may not show any symptoms at all (or so minimal that they do not realise it) and still be infectious to others - or spread the virus onto surfaces. Evidence that asymtomatic and pre-symtomatic spread were in fact major issues.
Also, there was evidence to show that countries and regions that successfully introduced masks were more successful at controlling the virus.

Also, back at the start masks of any sort were in extremely short supply. There were insufficient even for health workers. A lot of the hesitancy about recommending masks was to try to protect whatever supply there was for the most needy.

Another change? The strict "lockdown" has ended. People are mixing more. Masks are not so relevant when people are largely staying at home and not mixing. They have become a lot more relevant as many more people are out and about pursuing their daily business (and, yes, supporting economic life).

Another change?  The role of "risk compensation" has been challenged and largely discredited as far as the virus is concerned. Specifically in regard to Covid, this postulated that because people wearing masks would believe themselves to be safe (protected with a shield) they would pay less attention to, or ignore, other important behaviours - so they would  lower their guard as regards hand hygiene, social distancing, cough etiquette, etc. In fact, this has been shown not to be true. People who wear masks are seemingly the ones more likely to stick to the other guidelines.



Bronte said:


> And if people have no jobs there will be less money. Sounds like a big recession to me.



A recession is probably inevitable. But as the virus is increasing its spread again in several continental regions they are facing full or partial lockdown again. Ignoring the virus will not save us from recession. It will only make it worse.


----------



## Leo

Bronte said:


> Nowhere did I say 'big pharma' just likes throwing billions into research dead ends. Pharma will take as much money as governments will send them by the bucketload.  When do you think there will be a vaccine Leo?



Governments account for a lot of the funding alright, but there are hundreds of billions of private dollars behind ongoing research. These companies do not throw billions at lost causes.

I don't think there will be a vaccine any time soon, and it will then take quite some time to scale production, but that's a very different prospect to saying it's near impossible. 




Bronte said:


> We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key.  What changed the 'science' on that.



They didn't exactly say they were pointless, they said indications at the time were that the level or prevalence didn't justify the widespread wearing of masks in the face of global shortages. As more and more evidence became available that contradicted their understanding, those same scientists were forced to admit that they were wrong. That admission was the nexus for the change in advice globally.


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## Protocol

Early Riser said:


> A recession is probably inevitable. But as the virus is increasing its spread again in several continental regions they are facing full or partial lockdown again. Ignoring the virus will not save us from recession. It will only make it worse.



This is not the first time I have seen posters refer to a *future *recession.

It has started already.

It started in March 2020.

It is a very sharp drop in output/income.

We are in it now.

The very sharp drop during Q2 might continue into Q3.

There may be six months of very sharp falls.

The recession will be short, and very sharp.

The recovery will be slow.


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## Drakon

It may have started already, but in technical terms we won’t know ‘til October at the earliest. Two consecutive quarterly contraction is a “recession”.
The fact that there’s been no significant drop in PAYE income tax to the exchequer, because most that have lost their jobs or been furloughed were not PAYE tax payers, means that it may not have started as early as we thought.


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## Bronte

Leo said:


> indications at the time were that the level or prevalence didn't justify the widespread wearing of masks in the face of global shortages. As more and more evidence became available that contradicted their understanding, those same scientists were forced to admit that they were wrong. That admission was the nexus for the change in advice globally.



What’s the difference now and then as regards prevalence.

If global shortage was the problem, them we could have made masks or used scarves. Not buying that.

You’ve proved my point though. The scientists were wrong. But heck, I’ve no idea if they are right now. And I’ve less reason to trust them. Do you  realise there is no consistency.


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## Bronte

Protocol said:


> This is not the first time I have seen posters refer to a *future *recession.
> 
> It has started already.
> 
> It started in March 2020.
> 
> It is a very sharp drop in output/income.
> 
> We are in it now.
> 
> The very sharp drop during Q2 might continue into Q3.
> 
> There may be six months of very sharp falls.
> 
> The recession will be short, and very sharp.
> 
> The recovery will be slow.


I’m not seeing short the way this is going. I’m seeing very deep,


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## Protocol

Yes, fair enough, technically a recession is the falling part of income.

During 2021 income will be below its former path, but recovering, so technically that won't be a recession, but will be below full income.


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## Leo

Bronte said:


> You’ve proved my point though. The scientists were wrong. But heck, I’ve no idea if they are right now. And I’ve less reason to trust them. Do you  realise there is no consistency.



Your point was masks were pointless. I really do hope you don't honestly think I proved that. 

If you've no idea if they are right now, perhaps go read a few of the studies, read their findings and then review the methodology of how they came to those conclusions. You'll find all the consistency you want there.


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## Bronte

That's fair enough Leo.  All I see is that everybody has masks now but the figures keep rising anyway.  Even the much vaunted countries that seemed to be doing well, they are still getting cases. Like Australia.  Time will tell if Sweden made the right decision. And I think that time will be this winter.


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## Drakon

May I add some levity to the mask debate?








						Mask Debate Funny
					

hi :)Subscribe to Oumfy Please Support OUMFY:Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/oumfymusic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oumfy/ Facebook: https://ww...




					youtu.be


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## Early Riser

Drakon said:


> May I add some levity to the mask debate?



If saying that out loud you do need to be careful !


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## Leo

Bronte said:


> That's fair enough Leo.  All I see is that everybody has masks now but the figures keep rising anyway.  Even the much vaunted countries that seemed to be doing well, they are still getting cases. Like Australia.



Masks don't block 100% of particles, even the N95 rated respirators allow 5% or airborne particles through. Most of the clusters here have been linked to house parties and workplaces where masks aren't being worn. 



Bronte said:


> Time will tell if Sweden made the right decision. And I think that time will be this winter.



Sweden have already admitted they got it wrong. Studies have shown their plan of taking short term pain to achieve herd immunity has failed. Their hope their economy would suffer little and recover quickly has also been dashed.


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## Drakon

One negative of holidaying at home this summer is the public toilets situation. It’s never been this country’s strong point. Far from it. But many have been closed down because of the pandemic and cafes etc are charging non customers for use of their facilities (50c) due to their extra cleaning costs.


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## Mapara

Had a stay  in a north Dublin Hotel over the weekend  and was actually impressed with the service  and handling of the covid situation which was by the book  and with no alcohol available outside the restaurant sitting  apart  from the one €6.75  pint which we were served in the lobby after a some time  spent charming the  f & b manager.. So overall the experience was quite enjoyable  for a couple but I think the night out with the gang would be quite different from what would have gone before.


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## VintageTea2019

I visited Dublin Zoo today and due to restrictions they have a one-way only system in operation, all indoor areas are closed and you have to book your slot and time prior to going (no problem with that as used to do it anyway). It was maybe a little less crowded than normal (which was nice) but it does restrict a lot of the areas you go to visit and you can’t go back on yourself. Not many practising social distancing inside especially when clamoring to see the animals on view. Plenty of toilets open and some kiosks open for food and drink to takeaway. 

Was still a nice walk around with the kids though but not sure id return until more of the full amenities are back open. Heard a lot of northern accents so seemed a lot of people from up north coming to Dublin for stays.


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## Gordon Gekko

So much hot air and misinformation in this thread. Ridiculous stuff.


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## STEINER

Had a one night stay in a Meath hotel last Saturday night. Staff had face shields and gloves. As residents we had drinks on show of room key to lounge seated area, actual bar not open, table service. Spacing was fine and breakfast area was fine also. We ate out in a local restaurant and everything was fine also, staff wore masks and gloves and tables were spaced well. Have a wedding to attend on 14 August assuming no return to tighter restrictions.


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## Leo

Gordon Gekko said:


> So much hot air and misinformation in this thread. Ridiculous stuff.



Some of us do try challenge that whenever we spot it and have time. Feel free to do likewise. We have removed some dangerously bad advice, but sometimes the explanation as to why it's bad serves to educate others.


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## nad

Just back from a few days in Co.Clare..i must say it was a different experience than other years with the number of holidaymakers definitely lower ..particularly around the Cliffs of Mohar and Ennis town where we were based, but overall it was a pleasant and enjoyable experience..
,


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## Drakon

nad said:


> ...i must say it was a different experience than other years with the number of holidaymakers definitely lower ..
> ,



Interesting. Media reports suggest that Lahinch has been over-crowded. My wife’s friend spent a week in Doolin and said it was horrible it was so jammers. 
Maybe the beach areas are busier and elsewhere quieter.


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## Ceist Beag

The amount of cars in Donegal was more than I have ever seen up there. Some beaches were packed but the beauty about Donegal is that you only need to drive around the coast for another bit and you'll find an equally nice beach practically empty. Just be sure to bring a picnic as some may be a long way from any eateries!


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## Drakon

Ceist Beag said:


> Just be sure to bring a picnic as some may be a long way from any eateries!



Bring a picnic anyway, to any beach. 
Tae and hang sangajizz taste as good Viognier and lobster when you’re at the beach. Everything tastes immensely better.


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## dereko1969

Ceist Beag said:


> The amount of cars in Donegal was more than I have ever seen up there. Some beaches were packed but the beauty about Donegal is that you only need to drive around the coast for another bit and you'll find an equally nice beach practically empty. Just be sure to bring a picnic as some may be a long way from any eateries!


We were in North Mayo (Belmullet) and the beaches there are just stunning, got in for a swim every day apart from one. My mates who have a house there said it was way busier than normal, but it's not busy compared to Clare/Kerry/Cork. Any particular beaches you'd recommend in Donegal? We might be heading up there next month. Cross Beach in Mayo is beautiful but perhaps better for walking along than swimming as there can be rip tides. I don't actually know the names of the other beaches we were on, i'll try and post a google map of one of them.









						Mayo · Co. Mayo, Ireland
					

Co. Mayo, Ireland




					goo.gl


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## Ceist Beag

dereko1969 said:


> Any particular beaches you'd recommend in Donegal?


It's a massive county so it really depends what part you're staying in. If you're in the North West, there are beautiful beaches all along the coast. Carrickfin Beach (just beyond the airport) is one I really like but there are plenty more, it really depends on how busy they are. Further north, there are a few in Gaoth Dobhair (two known locally as Magheraclogher beach but you can just ask for the beach with Bad Eddie! or else Port Arthur beach which is on Google Maps as Carrickboyle beach)
https://goo.gl/maps/RGQ4puy8CpRmR3y37Further around on the Rosguill peninsula there is a lovely quiet beach at the head of the peninsula called Tranarossan beach 
https://goo.gl/maps/DPnBMufDMaxTX12n9Avoid Downings beach as it is overcrowded and overrated imho.
Like I said though, the best thing really is just keep driving until you come to one that you like - you'll never have to drive too far.


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## nad

It's seems like Rip off Ireland is a live and well from I've just heard on the radio.

Just listening  to a guy who maintains he was quoted €4100 for 3 nights B+B for 2 single rooms in Killarney in July before eventually getting it for €700 in a different  hotel.
and then they complain  the Government isn't  doing enough for them...


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## AlbacoreA

Not sure what you are expecting. Supply and Demand and also they've been closed for over a year.


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## elcato

nad said:


> Just listening to a guy who maintains he was quoted €4100 for 3 nights B+B for 2 single rooms in Killarney in July before eventually getting it for €700 in a different hotel.


Maybe he rang Killiney the first time


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## MrEarl

Hello,

Speaking as someone who holidays in Ireland a fair bit, I can say with certainty, that some of the Irish Hotels, have ramped up their prices. In my view, it's blatent profiteering.

To give a couple of examples, and these are based on renting houses / lodges, on hotel grounds, for 7 nights at the same time of year (H2,  Sept) :

Waterford Castle were 900 odd last year, and the previous year, this year they quoted over 1,500.

Mount Falcon quoted approx 3,000, compared with a quote of circa 1,800 (tbc) last year.

As far as I'm concerned, this is very short sighted, and while they'll sting some people this year, they'll pay the price with lost regular customers, next year and the years that follow.


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## Gordon Gekko

100%. They’ve a golden opportunity to win business from the significant cohort of people who have plenty of cash but never holiday in Ireland. If the industry could get those people to take one break a year in Ireland, they’d be on to a winner. But instead there’s blatant profiteering and all that will happen is that people will be turned off Ireland forever.


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## fayf

What appears to have happened is, most places have been booked up for months and there is hardly any availability left, so you pay a lot more. Think i read an article in about February, which suggested that over 90 % of all hotel and self catering capacity for the 3 month summer period, was already booked up at that stage.

In mid January i booked a 2 bed appartment in a seaside area in the west, just booked it, on a hunch we would all be holidaying at home this year. Booked for 1st weekend in June for a week, in a complex which has maybe 40 x 2 bed units, i was very surprised to be told, i got the last unit for that week. It was just under €500 for the whole week, very reasonable.

i genuinely did not believe what i was being told, about a week later, i checked the online availability, the entire complex was totally sold out, for the whole summer, right up,  to the end of August.

So, its clear to me at least, a significant amount of  people who booked early, got good value, anyone who waited, for the chance of getting away on a foreign holiday this year, is now left with a choice of 1)go nowhere, or 2)pay way above the odds, 3) go in the autumn.

So, while these high prices make headlines, they represent the pricing for a small % of availability, which is all normal for hotel & self catering-  dynamic pricing model, demand goes up, price goes up, which has been the norm for years. Airlines work the same, when one  delays making a booking with high demand, youre going to pay more.

For whats it worth, i made a booking, just last week for a July weekend in a 4 star hotel close to Dublin City centre, got it for €190 in total for two nights, very reasonable, i thought.  But i did notice scenic areas in Kerry/Galway etc are quite high, for that same weekend.


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## noproblem

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> Speaking as someone who holidays in Ireland a fair bit, I can say with certainty, that some of the Irish Hotels, have ramped up their prices. In my view, it's blatent profiteering.
> 
> To give a couple of examples, and these are based on renting houses / lodges, on hotel grounds, for 7 nights at the same time of year (H2,  Sept) :
> 
> Waterford Castle were 900 odd last year, and the previous year, this year they quoted over 1,500.
> 
> Mount Falcon quoted approx 3,000, compared with a quote of circa 1,800 (tbc) last year.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, this is very short sighted, and while they'll sting some people this year, they'll pay the price with lost regular customers, next year and the years that follow.


I know what everyone's saying and there are outlandish prices being asked but, there are good deals out there too. Just got a 2 night B/B in a lovely hotel in the Connemara area for €195 for 2 adults in June. Have stayed before and delighted to go again.


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## EasilyAmused

It’s supply and demand. Just the same as RyanAir. Those seats advertised for €10 (before tax) exist, but they get booked out. Those paying €200 (before tax) on the same flight have picked up the last few seats.

As my kids say, “you snooze, you lose”.


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## MrEarl

Unlike the airline industry, there are a lot of hotel and self catering options in Ireland,  and lots lots more, when you travel outside of Ireland.

The long term loosers will be the Irish businesses that profiteered during the pandemic, as people will go elsewhere, when this is over....they won't be quickly forgiven.

I've no problem with a bit of yield management, but there's too big a mark up at some of these places, to excuse. It's blatent profiteering.


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## AlbacoreA

After being cooped up for so long there will be mass exodus to anywhere hot and sunny as soon as they can. Even it was free in Ireland it wouldn't make a difference. 

We booked a few places in Ireland very early in the year, and there was almost nothing available back then. People were thinking ahead even then. Even in a normal summer it would mostly be booked up by now.


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## dereko1969

I would think most bookings have free cancellation built into them, hotels could well see particularly in late July and August empty rooms when it's easier to travel abroad. They are probably building this into bookings that are being made now.


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## AlbacoreA

They generally over book so if people cancel they aren't left with an empty room. 

If you are looking for bargains, last minute you are basically getting getting cancellations.


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## seamus m

Gordon Gekko said:


> Should businesses that have had no revenue for the last few months simply ignore the law of supply and demand?
> 
> There are a finite number of nice hotels and lots of people with money who are compelled to stay in Ireland this year.
> 
> Why wouldn’t prices be anything other than higher than normal?


Yes they should. this is a chance to sell the wonders of Ireland long term and not just for a quick buck


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## Gordon Gekko

seamus m said:


> Yes they should. this is a chance to sell the wonders of Ireland long term and not just for a quick buck


I’ve come round to your way of thinking.


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## RichInSpirit

I'll probably go camping again. Wild camping if the camp sites have the prices hiked up.


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## AlbacoreA

seamus m said:


> Yes they should. this is a chance to sell the wonders of Ireland long term and not just for a quick buck



How can you persuade people living here choose Ireland over cheaper, foreign holidays with better weather. Things like insurance were putting places out of business before the lockdown. 

Even on a basic level our facilities are poor. They are having to put Portable Toilets' in places like popular parks and beaches in lockdown,  because the popular places don't have them, and any increase in demand causes an issues. We rely on commercial properties, to provide facilities. 

Its not a quick buck for many. They will have been closed for over a year and likely to have a short season, but the basic running costs will be the same as if its a full year. 


That said I've had a lot of holidays in Ireland over the years and its always been expensive. I've only done it because going away wasn't an option at the time.


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## Sunny

The problem with Ireland is that there the standard can vary so much between hotels that are classified as being the same so you end up having to work harder to find decent value. I paid over €500 last year for 2 nights B&B for a hotel in Clare and I have to say I was shocked at what they classified as 4 star accommodation. I also spent a lovely night in Carton House with B&B and dinner for €200. The hotels were in no way comparable.

There are a lot of so called 4/5 star hotels in tourist areas getting away with charging high prices for a sub-standard offering. Having said, there are some really great hotels in Ireland that would compare well with anywhere.


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## joe sod

The thing is with the whole continent desperate to go on holidays  now, prices are bound to rise everywhere, everyone will be trying to recoup losses over the last year and guess what people will pay the higher prices because they have the money now. It's part of the global inflation trend . The cheap destinations especially in Europe will not be so cheap a year from now, Turkey will be cheap though as the currency has devalued thanks to Mr erdogen


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## EasilyAmused

AlbacoreA said:


> Its not a quick buck for many. They will have been closed for over a year and likely to have a short season, but the basic running costs will be the same as if its a full year.



I agree, it’s not a quick buck. It’s S&D, and if they didn’t apply pricing accordingly many wouldn’t be here next year. 



joe sod said:


> The thing is with the whole continent desperate to go on holidays  now, prices are bound to rise everywhere,



Don’t forget that there are 80% fewer flights today than there was in May 2019.
That too will drive prices up.


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## EasilyAmused

I’ve always believed that the worst thing about holidays is the actual travelling. 

The best thing about holidaying in Ireland is that I walk from my house to the car with my packed bags, and the next time I touch them is when I get to the holiday home. 
I bring all my creature comforts (pillow, Nespresso machine, stereo, cookware).

The latter is not an option when flying, and the dragging of bags from car to shuttle to security, etc., etc. is something I prefer to keep to a non-family holiday


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## niceoneted

Its not a case of them getting no revenue, the staff have been continued to get paid on the PUP payments and the businesses have been getting subsidies for being closed which I personally know of some business owners that have kept them a float. 
We booked a two bed air b&b for 8 nights in July in a west county for good vlaue €850. we also got two weekend  caslte breaks in July and august for avg €360 B&B (just the adults on those breaks). I think it is very good. we have stayed in both venues before and we know the food and service are great. 
we are also considering a family hotel break for 2-3 nights but nothing booked yet. You have to be prepared to look around a bit.


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## MrEarl

RichInSpirit said:


> Wild camping... .



Now that sounds interesting, please tell us more


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## Gordon Gekko

Sounds like Wicker Man type stuff…anything for a bit of excitement


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## Firefly

I hope people don't get too stung holidaying at home this year and rather discover the delights this country has to offer. If/when foreign holidays are feasible again, I have no doubt most will take the chance. However a good experience this summer might at least tempt more people to take shorter breaks at home. Maybe have the 2 weeks in the sun, but maybe another weekend or two at home during the year...


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## MrEarl

AlbacoreA said:


> Its not a quick buck for many. They will have been closed for over a year and likely to have a short season, but the basic running costs will be the same as if its a full year...



Sorry, but that's not factually correct. Running costs will not be the same as a full ("normal") year.

Most of the main expenses will be down, be it employment costs, electricity, cleaning etc.

Let's not forget, there have been no weddings, so no use of big function rooms,  occupancy has been sub 20% in most hotels, so rooms haven't been kept warm, needed light, daily linen changes etc. Very limited restaurant and bar service, so reduced staff, and operating costs....

As _ niceoneted _ correctly points out, a lot of staff will have been on State support schemes, or sadly in other cases, made redundant.

Tax burdens will be lower, with many hotels also likely to have availed of the opportunity to "warehouse" payments that might otherwise have been due for payment.

Quite a lot of the Irish hotels are still family owned, and while they may have debt, Banks have been providing payment breaks, interest only periods, and long term restructures.


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## RichInSpirit

MrEarl said:


> Now that sounds interesting, please tell us more


Wild camping is just that you pitch your tent (or camper van) anywhere other than a designated camp site.
I like a camp site as you have a bit of a base and some creature comforts like showers and maybe a bit of a restaurant or bar.


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## vandriver

The Missus has a €500 voucher for a holiday in Ireland.She emailed them about a week anywhere in July self catering.
2 and a half grand for a small cottage in Offaly.
Either I'm massively out of touch with Irish prices,or that's price gouging.


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## EasilyAmused

I’d say they were winding her up.

I’d a quick search on AirBnB.

Typical nightly rates of €50 for a room or €100 for a small house in Offaly in mid-July.


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## seamus m

The hoteliers have obviously forgotten 2007 recession when they couldn't give away rooms, and they will be remembered when this propped up economy flattens out   .It is a chance missed and hotel rooms will return to empty .Also 4 euro coffee shall be a thing of the past and horse boxes will be again for horses.


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## OMG_OMG

Anyone I have spoken to who has tried to book a hotel for the summer swears it will be holidays abroad forever after this year.


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## RichInSpirit

If anyone is interested in "Wild camping" and camper vans, they are talking about it  on Joe Duffy at the moment.


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## joer

If you have time and patients there is always deals to be got.  We have four breaks booked ( my wife has) between now and September. Some have been forwarded on since last year , free cancellation of course  and we were on two in the last few weeks . She would not book anything unless it was a good deal . Some have been cancelled and re- booked if a better price was to be got.


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## Purple

Other than the price and the weather what's not to like about an Irish holiday?

As long as you don't want sunshine, warmth, value and discovering new places, experiencing different cuisines, soaking up history and culture, the staycation thing is great!


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