# How much do one parent families in Ireland get in social welfare and other benefits??



## Brendan Burgess

Has anyone any data or worked examples  on this?

One parent familes in the Republic, without any other income, where one of the children is under 5,   get a One Parent Family payment of €193 + €29.80 per child

They get Child Benefit of €140 per month

They can earn up to €425 per week from working and get a reduced One Parent Family allowance.

They can get Family Income Supplement.

Brendan


----------



## Urn

So with one child you could potentially have a part time job and end up with €624 a week or €2704 a month tax free.  This I think would equate to an annual taxable salary of about €47k.

Assuming part time work hours coincided with school hours, therefore no childcare costs, I am wondering why people work?  And they have other benefits like medical cards, back to school allowance etc


----------



## Brendan Burgess

In Northern Ireland

If they have a child under 5, they get Income Support of £73.10 a week

They also get a child tax credit of £10 per week.


https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/income-support

The Child Benefit rate in the UK is £90 per month for the first child and £60 for subsequent children.

Once the child hits 5, they go onto the normal Unemployment Assistance rate which is also £73.10. 

Brendan


----------



## dub_nerd

Why single out one-parent families? Everybody with qualifying children gets Child Benefit. Lots of welfare recipients are allowed to work limited hours, not just lone parents. It's easier to avoid child care costs as a two parent family since you don't have to depend on that magical job that pays €20k and fits in exactly with school hours. And every family below a certain threshold of income and working hours can qualify for FIS. I wouldn't dispute that welfare rates are extraordinarily high, but it is not particular to one parent families, and is actually easier to maximise with two parents.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Hi dub nerd

I am not singling them out at all. I have often referred to the very high rates of social welfare and pensions in Ireland. I don't think that I have raised the high rates being paid to single parents before. 

But, on this thread, I am trying to understand how single parents are treated. 

Brendan


----------



## willyfones

It would be interesting to add it all up.    The HAP Rent allowance rates for a single mother with one child would be €1,250 per month in Dublin City Council, the same person working part time would be also entitled to affordable child care payments 80 euro per week if they work part-time.  They also would get free Travel if they are in One Parent Family allowance as far as I know.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

willyfones said:


> They also would get free Travel if they are in One Parent Family allowance as far as I know.



Hi Willy

I have never heard that before?  I don't think it's true.

You may be entitled to free travel if you are permanently living in the State and:


You are aged 66 or over
You are getting Disability Allowance, Blind Pension, Carer's Allowance or an Invalidity Pension from the Department of Social Protection.
You have been getting Incapacity Supplement or Workmen's Compensation with Disablement Pension for at least 12 months
You are blind or visually impaired and meet the medical conditions for Blind Pension
You are a specified carer for a person getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from the Department


You are a widow or widower or a surviving civil partner aged 60 or over whose late spouse/civil partner held a free travel pass and who is getting one of the following payments: _[most social welfare payments]_

You have registered for the Public Services Card when requested to do so


Brendaa


----------



## Steven Barrett

Urn said:


> So with one child you could potentially have a part time job and end up *with €624 a week or €2704 a month tax free.*  This I think would equate to an annual taxable salary of about €47k.
> 
> Assuming part time work hours coincided with school hours, therefore no childcare costs, I am wondering why people work?  And they have other benefits like medical cards, back to school allowance etc



Except it's not tax free. The children's allowance is tax free but the one parent allowance is taxable, as is the part time work they are doing. If the accumulative amount is over €47,000 a year, that person will be paying tax at the higher rate. 
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ment/taxation_of_social_welfare_payments.html

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


----------



## TheBigShort

SBarrett said:


> Except it's not tax free. The children's allowance is tax free but the one parent allowance is taxable, as is the part time work they are doing. If the accumulative amount is over €47,000 a year, that person will be paying tax at the higher rate.
> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ment/taxation_of_social_welfare_payments.html
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie




Well that's as much as a slam-dunk post as I've ever seen. I think there will need to be some sort of inquiry into AAM, particularly with threads related to social welfare and how this little nugget was not picked up on.


----------



## gipimann

Brendan Burgess said:


> In Northern Ireland.....
> 
> Once the child hits 5, they go onto the normal Unemployment Assistance rate which is also £73.10.
> 
> Brendan



With a few exceptions, One Parent Family Payment in Ireland ceases when the youngest child reaches 7.  The parent then moves to Jobseeker's Allowance.

You are correct in stating that Lone Parents do not get free travel.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

gipimann

Thanks for that correction.  Interestingly it was also 7 in the North, but brought down to 5 recently.

Brendan


----------



## Steven Barrett

TheBigShort said:


> Well that's as much as a slam-dunk post as I've ever seen. I think there will need to be some sort of inquiry into AAM, particularly with threads related to social welfare and how this little nugget was not picked up on.



Welfare payments have never been tax free but if it is your only source of income you will be below the threshold. 

When I was on the dole myself, the Revenue contacted me directly with adjusted tax credits to reflect the fact that I had been claiming welfare. The Social and the Revenue actually talk to each other!!


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


----------



## paddyd

Just to add, widowed people with children also fall into this single parent bracket.
the widows pension also pays the weekly top-up amount per week per child, where the child is under 18. That portion is tax free, but the widows pension is also paid irrespective of the persons working income, but is taxable - until such time as their tax status changes (remarry etc). One parent credits and widows credits are also paid. The widows credit reduces over 5 years from year of deceasment.


----------



## jim

So the key point i am gathering from the above is that if you declare yourself to social welfare as being a lone parent with even 1 child you can be getting quite a tidy amount from the State for doing nothing. Is this an unfair assessment?


----------



## paddyd

jim said:


> you can be getting quite a tidy amount from the State for doing nothing. Is this an unfair assessment?



Yes and no. 
Yes, the welfare aids to raising your family are higher for a single parent, but that's about the only 'gain'.
On the negative side, single parent family's sit at the bottom of every wealth accumulation metric you can find - sitting far behind on home ownership %, savings value, net wealth etc etc.

There's very little financial positives from being a single parent when looking at the bigger picture, but they need more financial help to raise their children to the level we aspire as a nation for all our children to be.

Some CSO stats on single parent families:
https://onefamily.ie/policy-campaigns/facts-figures/

Wealth distribution report:
https://www.tasc.ie/download/pdf/the_distribution_of_wealth_in_ireland_final.pdf

"The home ownership rate for single parents is 26.3%, which is less than half the rate for couples with children and single adults, and less than 40% of the average rate for all households (70%)

The average median value of financial assets for all households is €6,300. This means that half of all households have financial assets worth less than €6,300. For single parent households that median value is €500. This is explained in large part by the differences in the value of their savings.

The median value of savings for all respondents was €4,500, but for single parents it is €300. The average debt-to-asset ratio in the respondents is 37.7%, while the debt to asset ratio for single parent households is more than double that at 78.3%. On average 18.4% of households in the survey were classified as credit constrained, but for single parent families the rate is more than double at 42.1% "


----------



## XMarks

We should have an agency similar to the CSA in the UK who deduct maintenance from the non-resident parent's wages at source if they refuse to pay. I think it is 15% of salary per child. Most children have two parents. Why should the state pay if the non resident parent is working?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

paddyd said:


> There's very little financial positives from being a single parent when looking at the bigger picture, but they need more financial help to raise their children to the level we aspire as a nation for all our children to be.



Most people I know wait until they can afford to have children before having them. 

Most people I know bought houses a long way away from "their community" to get on the housing ladder and then thought about having children. 

The social welfare system has the very opposite incentives. 

Have children as early as possible so that the council will provide you with your own gaff in your own community. 

As XMarks point out, there is no cost to the father and no incentive for the mother to seek maintenance. 

Brendan


----------



## delfio

Brendan Burgess said:


> Have children as early as possible so that the council will provide you with your own gaff in your own community.
> 
> 
> 
> Brendan



And they can spend all that easy welfare cash in the local chipper every evening, cigarettes, crates of beer even dope


----------



## Fella

This thread is funny , I'll probably be shot down for saying this but it's the truth , a lot of single parents are not single parents at all , I can see it in my own area and know for a fact it's happening in a friends area as a friend of mines neighbour was using my friends side entrance to enter "his single partners" house as he knew social welfare had been watching. 
Off the top of my head I know of about 4 or 5 girls who are supposedly single parents and there partner stays there , I've heard the stories of how they have to hide the clothes of boyfriend because social welfare can call. I'm not interested in any one saying "why not report them etc " . But open your eyes the systems are been played , id estimate fraud accounts for over 50% of one parent family payouts.


----------



## XMarks

Fella said:


> This thread is funny , I'll probably be shot down for saying this but it's the truth , a lot of single parents are not single parents at all , I can see it in my own area and know for a fact it's happening in a friends area as a friend of mines neighbour was using my friends side entrance to enter "his single partners" house as he knew social welfare had been watching.
> Off the top of my head I know of about 4 or 5 girls who are supposedly single parents and there partner stays there , I've heard the stories of how they have to hide the clothes of boyfriend because social welfare can call. I'm not interested in any one saying "why not report them etc " . But open your eyes the systems are been played , id estimate fraud accounts for over 50% of one parent family payouts.



I completely agree with the above. Many of the 'single women' go on to have multiple children with the same father. 

We waited to have children until we could afford them which was in our late 30's.


----------



## Capricorn 1

In addition to the One Parent Family payment and rent allowance, some may qualify for a medical card, winter fuel allowance (€22.50 pw from October to March) and Back to School Clothing and footwear allowance.


----------



## Easeler

Don't beat yourselves up too much about it guys whos going to turn ye over in ye nursing home beds after ye spoiled privileged kids bang ye in there. are ye going to ask them than how much ye have cost the state. your life someday might depend on a child of a single parent .


----------



## Brendan Burgess

galwaypat said:


> whos going to turn ye over in ye nursing home beds after ye spoiled privileged kids bang ye in there.
> 
> are ye going to ask them than how much ye have cost the state.
> 
> your life someday might depend on a child of a single parent



Hi Pat

One of the problems though is that the very high levels of social welfare and benefits create a dependency culture. Some of these kids will never work and will probably be turned over in their beds by people who have worked all their lives or by immigrants.

Brendan


----------



## XMarks

galwaypat said:


> Don't beat yourselves up too much about it guys whos going to turn ye over in ye nursing home beds after ye spoiled privileged kids bang ye in there. are ye going to ask them than how much ye have cost the state. your life someday might depend on a child of a single parent .



I live directly next door to a nursing home. The only Irish national working there is the owner. All others are Asian.


----------



## Easeler

Still a lot of irish working in nursing homes down here in the west, The difference is that you can still get by on a modest wage down here not like Dublin you can buy a nice semi D for 100 k you can get 3 pints for a tenner a soup and a sambo for 6 euro in local cafe I don't know too many dole spongers everyone is having a go they are a very small minority of people that do take advantage but in general people along the west cost have always been know for there great work ethic.


----------



## delfio

I guess there are so many social problem among some lone parents, a vast amount do a great job and we mustn't tar them all with the same brush. 

I can never understand why they have to have breakfast clubs in some schools so the kids can be fed before lessons start. Porridge, fruits, toast etc is not expensive, the money is not been spend on the priorities.  Perhaps food stamps is the way to go, like in America.


----------



## Danmo

This thread is obnoxious. I am a single parent who works full time to pay for a mortgage and childcare. I should also point out that I waited not just until my 30's but until I was 40 to have a child and ended up a single parent statistic through no fault of my own. Sh8t happens. It's called 'Life'.

Why are you singling out single mothers as creating a 'dependency' culture/generation. 'Single mothers' are after all, the parent that STAYED. Not all of us are here as some kind of 'career move' as it was implied in an earlier post and let me tell you, it is one of the most difficult jobs on the planet.

I wish you all well with your perfect, suburban 2.3 child lives (that you waited until you were in your 30s and financially solvent to have).

I resent as much as any of you, the heavily dependent welfare culture that exists in this State as one of the 'squeezed middle' that gets up early for Leo and pays her way. You might all put your heads together and think about renaming this thread and redirecting your frustration at those that do not contribute and have no intention of ever doing so.

But stop blaming single mothers and their kids.


----------



## Firefly

Danmo said:


> This thread is obnoxious. I am a single parent who works full time to pay for a mortgage and childcare. I should also point out that I waited not just until my 30's but until I was 40 to have a child and ended up a single parent statistic through no fault of my own. Sh8t happens. It's called 'Life'.
> 
> Why are you singling out single mothers as creating a 'dependency' culture/generation. 'Single mothers' are after all, the parent that STAYED. Not all of us are here as some kind of 'career move' as it was implied in an earlier post and let me tell you, it is one of the most difficult jobs on the planet.
> 
> I wish you all well with your perfect, suburban 2.3 child lives (that you waited until you were in your 30s and financially solvent to have).
> 
> I resent as much as any of you, the heavily dependent welfare culture that exists in this State as one of the 'squeezed middle' that gets up early for Leo and pays her way. You might all put your heads together and think about renaming this thread and redirecting your frustration at those that do not contribute and have no intention of ever doing so.
> 
> But stop blaming single mothers and their kids.



Very good post. I agree..tarring all single mothers with the same brush is not on. Parents can become single for a plethora of reasons. Having said that, the way the incentives are set, it does facilitate the abusing of the system for those who may be strategically minded.


----------



## jim

Precisely where in this thread did any person lay the blame squarely at the door of "single mothers"? Calm doon firefly and damno. The single parent allowance is allowing some people to fleece the taxpayer.


----------



## Deiseblue

Ah Danmo you get inured to it.

Single parents , culture of dependency , unemployed households , public sector , trade unions , social welfare payments et al .

Just accept that it's a sounding board for a relatively small number of members which really has no effect on the real world .

Still good fun & enjoyable & educational diverse views abound


----------



## jim

Of your list above desieblue i think the only 2 of the 6 you mentioned that folks might argue is problematic, and rightly so, is the dependancy culture and also unemployed households. 

The other 4 are random sweeping generalisations that mean nothing unless you refer to a more specific aspect of those that you think members on here are harping on about.


----------



## Danmo

Deiseblue said:


> Ah Danmo you get inured to it.
> 
> Single parents , culture of dependency , unemployed households , public sector , trade unions , social welfare payments et al .
> 
> Just accept that it's a sounding board for a relatively small number of members which really has no effect on the real world .
> 
> Still good fun & enjoyable & educational diverse views abound


I never get inured to being maligned. You're wrong - it's not just 'good fun'. Such views perpetuate a stigma of single parenthood and contribute to an already very uncaring society in general. You might take a minute to think about the women who have risked their lives to save their kids and get away from abusive or possibly alcoholic partners. You might have a think about some of the statistics mentioned here:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ove-european-average-new-report-35917016.html
There is a perception in Irish society generally that portions of the population that are at a disadvantage are there due to some fault of their own. The logo for the Social Welfare is that of a hand and a bird. Social Welfare is designed (as far as I know) as a measure to help people in times of need during their lives and to get back on their feet and fly again. Yes, some people make a lifelong career of it but please don't make such sweeping generalisations.


----------



## Deiseblue

I totally accept & agree with your views & I can only imagine how difficult it can be as a single parent to bring up children in straitened financial & emotional circumstances !

The polarising topics I referred to in my post attract an equally diverse range of views .

I think that Ireland as a fair & prosperous State has , to it's credit , introduced a relatively fair social welfare system although I do believe the restructuring of the lone parent allowance in 2015 was a retrograde step as was lowering payments to those under 25.

The point I was endeavouring to make that no matter what views are expressed here they have little relevance to what's happening in the real world.

The reference to good fun was rather cackhanded & I do apologise , it's never good fun being maligned .


----------



## jjm

There is a perception in Irish society generally that portions of the population that are at a disadvantage are there due to some fault of their own. The logo for the Social Welfare is that of a hand and a bird. Social Welfare is designed (as far as I know) as a measure to help people in times of need during their lives and to get back on their feet and fly again. Yes, some people make a lifelong career of it 

10 out of 10 Danmo
It is beyond me why people don't start questioning and point out the reason most families lost  cant pay there mortgage after the crash was because of the social welfare system let them down ,
If we had the German social welfare system things would have being a lot different out come,


----------



## paddyd

wow, as a single dad I find this thread pretty incredible. The torches and pitch-forks are out, never mind the massive sweeping generalisations about single parents and also their children.

Turn off Fox news for a sec and take a look at the welfare dept's own figures on the average time an individual single parent actually receives the benefits, and then divide it into the various 'types' of single parent. Pretty sure it was Joan Burton released them a few years ago responding to the perceived undetected fraud in this area.

They consider that couples in receipt of single parent welfare as:
- it was fraud, but they split up (and its then legitimate to receive it)
- they marry (and its legitimately removed)
- its fraud and detected (and its legitimately removed)
- they are actually a single parent (and they legitimately receive it - Plus people like me, they work full time and are taxed as income on the benefits)
- a widow remarries (legitimately removed)
- it's fraud and goes undetected


During Burtons reign, welfare also closed some loopholes regarding how many nights a child could spend in the other parents house in other for both of them to claim. Now only one can claim.

Seems to me that most of your issues would be resolved if they sorted out the (already pretty strict, but difficult to prove) rules on co-habitation. They're listed on the revenue website btw.

single parents account for 4.4% of the adult population according to the CSO, before you bear in mind that only one of the parents can claim the benefit and that many are then taxed on it, widowed etc and then theres the detected fraud and then there's the actual undetected fraud.

If you think your "neighbours mates single friend" is sneaking around defrauding the state, then do us all a favour, put the keyboard and the hand-lotion down and call Leo's fraud hotline FFS.
(Note my sweeping generalisation there  ).

Can't believe you're ring-leading this Brendan.
Your original question asks "how much". The answer therefore is basic addition of a few benefits (see below). God knows we love our basic math.

So,
With two young children I get exactly €253 per week (€183+€30+€30 I think), plus a one parent family credit (again I think it's about €1600-1900). I then pay income tax on it at the higher rate.
It's about €6k pa after tax across the 3 of us. 
Considering I can't leave the house to go to work, shops etc without a childminder, it's a fraction of my minder bills pa.
Thankfully we're lucky and don't rely on it, as I've a good job and chose to stay working.

Have some perspective folks


----------



## Purple

As a single father I don’t have a problem with this thread.

The question was how much do one parent families get in welfare payments. That’s a question, not an accusation.

A working father who has his children half the time gets absolutely nothing. Their mother, who also works, (earning significantly more than him) and gets whatever support there is, as well as a higher tax free allowance. That’s unfair but in the majority of cases where one parent is not pulling their weight it is the father so it is understandable that the system is skewed towards mothers.


I know two individuals who bought houses and then rented them to the mothers of their children who fraudulently claim to be single parents. They live there with their partner and their kids. Both have been reported to Welfare but nothing has happened. That sort of thing, while not a big thing on a national scale, is an emotive example of what bothers people about our welfare system. I think it is reasonable to say that those people are part of the small group of people who are part of the long term welfare culture rather than being part of some sub-set which can be categorised as lone parents. In other words the people who abuse this part of the welfare system probably abuse the welfare system in general and are inter-generational scroungers.


----------



## jjm

Purple said:


> As a single father I don’t have a problem with this thread.
> 
> The question was how much do one parent families get in welfare payments. That’s a question, not an accusation.
> 
> A working father who has his children half the time gets absolutely nothing. Their mother, who also works, (earning significantly more than him) and gets whatever support there is, as well as a higher tax free allowance. That’s unfair but in the majority of cases where one parent is not pulling their weight it is the father so it is understandable that the system is skewed towards mothers.
> 
> 
> I know two individuals who bought houses and then rented them to the mothers of their children who fraudulently claim to be single parents. They live there with their partner and their kids. Both have been reported to Welfare but nothing has happened. That sort of thing, while not a big thing on a national scale, is an emotive example of what bothers people about our welfare system. I think it is reasonable to say that those people are part of the small group of people who are part of the long term welfare culture rather than being part of some sub-set which can be categorised as lone parents. In other words the people who abuse this part of the welfare system probably abuse the welfare system in general and are inter-generational scroungers.



Purple welcome back from your holidays,
Purple said.I think it is reasonable to say that those people are part of the small group of people who are part of the long term welfare culture rather than being part of  some sub-set which can be categorized as lone parents.In other words the people who abuse this part of the welfare system probably abuse the welfare system in general and are inter-generational scroungers.

The biggest inter-generational scroungers are the local politicians who make a career out of building a local politics network around social welfare.just as above I know politicians from right wing parties who would be involved in trying to help people to abuse the social welfare ,from  about 11 years ogo I could  give an example of a family who never used the welfare system until marriage break up   parents/son were well off bought house to rent out through agent to there daughter and family .husband at the time could not understand why wife would not stay in house with kids and he move out the penny dropped once family home was sold politicians in the know were up to there eyes in advising best way to make the most out of situation.

I seen the same thing happening Politicians pushing housing department to allocate housing before single person got married at the expense of single parent who would not be as well off/connected and could have done without being pushed down the housing list using pull.
in both cases there is no history of depending on social welfare ,


----------



## TheBigShort

sahd said:


> I did a calculation - and worked out that a lone parent , 2 children under 7 , working 3hrs a day getting 140 euro a week wage - would end up with about €630 a week incl child benefit, FIS and OPB. Ignoring the Child Benefit - because everyone gets that - that works out as about €530 a week - which is €27.7k "take home".



The calculation is incorrect. To qualify for FIS you need to work 19 hours a week. At 3 hrs a day (assuming 5 days) that's only 15 hours disqualifying from FIS. Which is harsh when comparing to this person -



sahd said:


> Someone just working would have to earn about €36k to get that.



I'm assuming this person is not a single parent? With two extra mouths to feed, clothe, shelter, school etc?


----------



## jjm

I wonder has anyone got the full cost of running the department of social protection not including welfare payments ,


----------



## Protocol

All published in DSP annual report and annual stats.


----------



## Delboy

I'll just leave this here

*Mother would require €120k salary to make amount she receives in State benefits - court hears*



> At Kilrush District Court, Judge Patrick Durcan calculated that mother of four, Mary Maughan receives €55,000 a year on various State benefits.
> Addressing Ms Maughan, Judge Durcan said: "You receive around €55,000 a year in benefits and if you were paying tax and all of that, you would need an income of €120,000 a year."
> In reply in the witness box, Ms Maughan said: "Probably."
> 
> Ms Maughan receives benefit payments concerning her own four children along with two other children she is guardian of.
> 
> Ms Godfrey said that Ms Maughan receives €358.20 in a weekly carer’s allowance; a weekly payment of €352 in a guardian payment along with Child benefit monthly payments of €840 and a monthly domiciliary care allowance of €309.
> Ms Godfrey said that in addition, Ms Maughan receives €3,400 annually in a respite grant as she is the carer of two children who are not her own.


----------



## Waver

Did you note that two of the payments this lady receives are Carers Allowance and Guardians Allowance? By caring for a permanently disabled child as well as children who are not her own she is saving the state a large amount of money as it costs a lot more to provide full time residential care for children than it does to pay the welfare allowances.

Carers and Guardians work for their payments, often with very little support.


----------



## Delboy

I noted it... it's included in the quote I posted above!


----------



## TheBigShort

I think the headline misleading somewhat. While perhaps factual, it implies the State is a soft touch for welfare payments.

Whereas the reality is, to do the job the woman is doing, with the necessary skills and supports, it could probably cost the State more than €120,000.


----------



## RETIRED2017

TheBigShort said:


> I think the headline misleading somewhat. While perhaps factual, it implies the State is a soft touch for welfare payments.
> 
> Whereas the reality is, to do the job the woman is doing, with the necessary skills and supports, it could probably cost the State more than €120,000.


How can people on hear who support FF/FG give out about the above . FF/FG took our tax and gave it to her .she did not rob it you know,

(She did say Probably looks like she cant understand why the people who pay this tax don't do something about it,

According to the judge she got 55K

The problem is  the 65K which is taken in taxes,

The problem is FF/FG  and the people who vote for them including my self,

For the last 40 years  Before Every  Election I  hear FF/FG promising if elected they will cut taxes for there voters
After every election  FF or FG finish up forming a Government so the 65K Question is FF /FG or the people who vote for them who are to blame,

FF/FG are the same party it is about time we opened a debate before the next election on which Party should survive .

We gave them a chance to form a government FF were more interested in the left vote than going into Government,

The best thing FF/FG could do before the 100th anniversary of the civil war is become one party again and do the country some service,If the don't we should do it for them seeing there total vote is just over 50%


----------



## Purple

The problem for most people is that the alternative to FF/FG is worse so we keep voting for them.


----------



## RETIRED2017

Purple said:


> The problem for most people is that the alternative to FF/FG is worse so we keep voting for them.



FF and FG will not go into power together in case there supporters move over to SF this speaks for itself ,FF/FG/SF all the same support base look after the same people,

FF/FG Look after the same people as SF and screw the rest,

The public service thought Labour was looking after them until the Pension changes brought in 1995 started to kick in and the Trioka changes changed all that for ever, Labour were looking after the same group as FF/FG ,

A very Interesting Question is who is looking after the people like You and I who go/Went  out to work every day not FF/FG/ by the look of things,
 in your case for the last 20 years and in my own case 48 years,


----------



## Purple

RETIRED2017 said:


> FF and FG will not go into power together in case there supporters move over to SF this speaks for itself ,FF/FG/SF all the same support base look after the same people,
> 
> FF/FG Look after the same people as SF and screw the rest,


FF/FG look after a much broader group of people than the Shinners. SF are a populist pseudo-socialist party who target the resentful/ jealous/ economically illiterate etc. FF look after many of the same people and are unashamedly populist but not to the same extent as the Shinners. FF/FG also don't have a terrorist wing and don't have a bunch of former terrorists pulling the strings in the background.  



RETIRED2017 said:


> The public service thought Labour was looking after them until the Pension changes brought in 1995 started to kick in and the Trioka changes changed all that for ever, Labour were looking after the same group as FF/FG ,


 Nobody bought/ looked after the Public Sector like FF during the Socialist Partnership years when an un-elected politburo of vested interest groups ran the country.



RETIRED2017 said:


> A very Interesting Question is who is looking after the people like You and I who go/Went  out to work every day not FF/FG/ by the look of things,
> in your case for the last 20 years and in my own case 48 years,


 In my case for the last 27 years (30 if you include part time work while still in school), but the PD's where the closest thing to a part for working people (as opposed to people who don't work but call themselves working class).


----------



## RETIRED2017

In my case for the last 27 years (30 if you include part time work while still in school), but the PD's where the closest thing to a part for working people (as opposed to people who don't work but call themselves working class).[/QUOTE]

I would agree The problem with the PD party at the time was it was set up because of a split in the FF party over who would be leader of FF
I suspect IF the leader of the PD became leader of FF he would not have made any changes to FF,
I remember when a single person on the average industrial wage would finish up paying 68 pence in the pound if they did any overtime + social Insurance

I voted for the PD at there first  election the person I voted for did not get elected I actually met this person a few months ago her take on it was the PD at the top were FF to the bone she said if you want to understand why the PD died away take a look at the first change of leader ,


----------

