# George Mordaunt on RTE Taking Care of Business - tonight - Thursday  29 August



## Brendan Burgess

George will be getting advice from the lads on the RTE programme "Taking Care of Business" on 29th August.


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## jdwex

Do we get to see his 3 bed semi-d?


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## Brendan Burgess

No but I am quite sure we will get to see his new car business on at least three occasions throughout the programme. 

I wonder will they tell us that he has written books about getting out of debt? It's a weird idea.


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## Delboy

Brendan Burgess said:


> George will be getting advice from the lads on the RTE programme "Taking Care of Business" on 22nd August.



I don't get it. What can a man who's being through the wars with the banks, written books, gone on the motivational talk circuit etc etc learn from this?
Will it be more than just an advertisement for his business. Surely a show like this should focus more on start-ups and business owners who are new to the game


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## Brendan Burgess

Delboy said:


> I don't get it. What can a man who's being through the wars with the banks, written books, gone on the motivational talk circuit etc etc learn from this?
> 
> Will it be more than just an advertisement for his business. Surely a show like this should focus more on start-ups and business owners who are new to the game



Hi Delboy

On reflection, I think Mordaunt did refer in TV interviews (and presumably his book)  that he got great debt advice along the way from two guys, so it must be these two lads. 

But it will still be interesting to see how they make the programme. It will probably be about his new business selling cars online.


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## Brendan Burgess

A reminder that he will be taking centre stage tonight.

Last week's programme was filmed from Nov 2011 to earlier this year.

So I imagine that they have done the same with George.

If they haven't started filming until more recently, they will probably reconstruct stuff which is fair enough.


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## Brendan Burgess

The programme was a bit of a damp squib.  I feel sorry for George. He doesn't really understand what is happening around him and thinks he can talk his way out. He should have gone bankrupt ages ago, and he would have a fresh start now. 

It was made this year but referred back to when problems started in March 2008. 

George often refers to the fact that he finished school without doing his Leaving. Today he spoke about various jobs he got kicked out of, including An Post.  He struck me again as just not being that smart.  He can talk , so that probably disguises it a lot. 

"I don't believe in projections. I don't believe in budgets". 

To run a business, especially with €18m of borrowings, you need to be a bit more clever than George is. 

We don't know what deal he did with his lender, but he says he will be in pain for years to come. 

He should have just gone for bankruptcy. If he had gone bankrupt in 2010, he would be out of it now with no debts. 

He could make a good living out of his public speaking engagements and possibly out of his car dealing. 

I am surprised that the two lads didn't encourage this. But they seemed a bit brow beaten by him as well. 

He has an online car business "which is being copied in every county in Ireland" but yet he still has a big forecourt and showroom.


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## mercman

The impression I got from the programme was that he's living in an igloo. Nice guy and all that, but again he became a casualty of the Banks. It appears that he's living a dream but in reality its becoming a nightmare.

There is no easy way to the debt burden. It really is not a crime to go bankrupt. For his own sake and to take himself and family out of their pain is to do it.


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## Importer

One of those two "Advisors" is a typical bean counter and apparently unable to see the woods from the trees. What credibility does he have sitting around the table and zoning in on George's TV channels. George , apparently owes millions and appears to be  doing "his best" with the hand he's been dealt . Any senior banker will appreciate the need to keep George on-side and certainly wont begrudge him his TV channels if he's otherwise playing ball. Having TV channels or not is completely immaterial to the scale of the debt under review here.The threat of bankruptcy remains there for the bank and that's a tricky balancing act yet to be played out. A guy like George will break if hes pushed too far and nobody wants that. Almost anybody can crunch numbers but it takes someone with vision and true business experience to give proper advice in these situations. I think these Advisors are very comfortable with the numbers but sadly lacking in areas of business development, strategy, marketing and operations management. I felt it was out of frustration that George was throwing back the subject of forecasting and budgetting across the table.

In the Ballyseedy episode, the bean counters were overjoyed that the owner decided to restrict the purchasing of stock from 40,000 to 20,000.
The level of stock required is partly calculation and partly estimation.Running out of stock is a disaster for a business like that. Having too much stock should not be a problem if it is purchased correctly and some safeguards and cash flow planning are built in. I felt that the owners had a much better idea of how much stock was required than the bean counters yet Mr Beancounter didnt seem to know what he didnt know. 

Having said all that I think George and his Advisors made a reasonably good team. He had all the business acumen. They ran the numbers inside out and he quite rightly balked at any nonsense that they threw in his way. His business experience was obvious. Their lack of practical management experience was equally obvious


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Importer

I was surprised that so much was made of Sky. He suggested cutting it down to the basic package which would have saved George around €40 a month. With a debt of €18m, that should be of no interest to the bankers 

I have heard George on the radio saying that he had to get rid of Sky Sports at the insistence of the banks. I wonder if this was correct and if he was conflating it with the advice from Tommy? 

Then I wondered if Tommy was making a point for TV audiences. But to be fair to them, they were very complimentary of the banks saying that the banks are trying to keep SMEs in business. 


The Sky Sports discussion was completely out of place so I wonder if it was manufactured for entertainment purposes?


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## ontour

I find it difficult to reconcile his perspective that we need people like him and that is the reason to bail him out.  There is no doubt that there was wreckless lending and he should be able to have a sustainable future with bankruptcy or other means of debt resolution.  

Some people who ran multi-million euro businesses during the boom did not have the skills to run businesses of that scale, and they still don't have those skills. I am not sure that George appreciates his limitations.


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi ontour

The odd thing is that he seems to have a clear understanding of what he did wrong. 

When speaking to a meeting of accountants, he said something like "The professional advice I got from your profession was reasonably dreadful, however the decisions I made were even worse" 

He listed out all his businesses and investments and they were all disastrous. 

He is able to talk, but he doesn't have the skills to run a business.


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## Delboy

ontour said:


> I find it difficult to reconcile his perspective that we need people like him and that is the reason to bail him out.  There is no doubt that there was wreckless lending and he should be able to have a sustainable future with bankruptcy or other means of debt resolution.
> 
> Some people who ran multi-million euro businesses during the boom did not have the skills to run businesses of that scale, and they still don't have those skills. I am not sure that George appreciates his limitations.



+1....yes we need SME's and entrepreneurs, but not at any cost. And while he was able to see he could'nt hack a 9-5(!) at An Post, or deliver bread...he just cannot see that he is not cut out for this type of business either.

I got the feeling from the way he was arguing with the 2 lads about sky, was that he still does'nt get it. He launched off into the usual tirade about the banks, the economy etc etc....but I believe he still has an enormous sense of entitlement and the past few years have'nt knocked that out of him. 
They made sure not to show him at home! Or driving anything fancier than a Ford!


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## Cantalia

I admired his ability to change his business and keep going with it online.
He has certainly shown business flair now,even if he was just the jobless son who inherited his fathers business, any fool could have run a car dealership in Ireland in the 90's/00's, building it up through the hard times of the 70's/80's was a different matter. Although his past behavior doesn't inspire any confidence, more the poor lad the banks made a fool out of, I think his last five years shows courage, staying-power, grit and determination.  I also admired his honesty. I have seen people buried in shame unable to leave the house. All in all my final impression of him was a positive one. I would like him to do good. It also should be noted that if he is renting his new premises he is left with unsecured debt, perfect position for a quick remedy under our new insolvency regime which maybe really will start this year. He has most of the PIP's work done. Sadly we don't know the deal he got so we don't know if its for a longer period than he would suffer under the new process. I wonder if the a bank making him sign a Contract on the deal is an effort to prevent him going into the new process??


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## Bronco Lane

During the show he said he lost everything. Not his Sky package and no doubt his other little luxuries.
There is a rented house close to me where one of these NAMA type guys is renting. The big cars are still there, the children still go to the fee paying school, they have just returned after being away for the summer holidays. Carry on regardless.


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## Brendan Burgess

Cantalia said:


> It also should be noted that if he is renting his new premises he is left with unsecured debt, perfect position for a quick remedy under our new insolvency regime which maybe really will start this year.



He has done a structured asset disposal programme which maximised the return for the banks. 

It's hard to know what the final deal was. It is likely that they would veto a PIA. 

But he could still go for bankruptcy. 

It's a pity that the programme didn't compare the options, but Mordaunt says that he has signed a confidentiality agreement with the banks.


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## Bronco Lane

Should he not have written the books "after" he was made bankrupt?


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## Slim

I had never heard of George Mordaunt before this thread started a few weeks ago. I made a point of watching it and my conclusion was that George is a plonker who couldn't hold down a job and was taken into the family business as a last resort by his dad. His only obvious talent seems to be an ability to waffle on in the face of logic. His speech to the other two at the conference table, during which the TV package came up, was galling, sounded more like a political broadcast or, heaven forbid, promo for a book. More to the point though is that the banks will analyse every last bit of discretionary spending, especially at initial level, in discussing the borrower's lifestyle etc. Mordaunt seemed keen to highlight how much pain he had experienced throughout the process, lost investments, properties etc, with very little apparent concern for the emoployees laid off. Overall, a very disappointing programme, and not a convincing argument for allowing this guy to continue trading.


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## Dr.Debt

I was very impressed with George and would back him in a heart beat.

A true entrepreneur is one who can find opportunities no matter what. In this case he used his "situation" as a launching pad for writing books, for delivering motivational speeches, for showcasing his new business on prime time TV and for launching a brand new technology based business. In my view he goes to the top of the class and I have no doubt he will rise rapidly again. WE DO NEED PEOPLE LIKE GEORGE

I thought he used his Advisors very well. He listened, he took whatever advice made sense to him and rejected anything that didn't sit right. I got the impression that he had good judgment which is everything in business.

To the people who say that he is a flawed character, having been sacked twice in his early career., I would say that it doesnt surprise me at all.
An Entrepreneur by nature will find it very difficult to work for somebody else. An entrepreneur buzzing with ideas and energy will never do well in a stifling rigid organisation structure.

To the people who say that he doesn't know how to run a business "because he lost millions in Ireland's biggest bust" that is even more tripe.
Thousands of good business people lost money in Ireland's biggest bust (George included) What we need to do is look at how he ran that business before the bust. By all accounts a wonderful success.

I didnt know anything about George before last night's show but he did impress me and I wish him well. I think he might need a strong partner to keep him grounded but his creativity and potential for creating employment is very evident


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## ashambles

The Sky chat was revealing for such a minor detail in relation to his debts. 

He was affronted to be  told it might be a good idea to show the bank he would cut his 900e a year subscription to 360e a year. The advisors seemed taken aback by his reaction. 

He whined that he wouldn't give up letting the kids watch the Simpsons on a Sunday at 6.

As it happens the Simpsons is on the basic package so his "think of the children" argument was flawed.  

I suppose there's no possibility the bulk of that sky package is spent on something more George centered like Sky Sports.


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## Brendan Burgess

Slim said:


> His only obvious talent seems to be an ability to waffle on in the face of logic. .





Dr.Debt said:


> I was very impressed with George and would back him in a heart beat.



Interesting how two people, could see the same thing, and  could get two completely contrasting views of George. 

Dr Debt

I appreciate that the "heart beat" is a throwaway comment, but there is a chance that Slim has called it correctly and that you have been taken in by the waffle. 

You may be right to back him, but you would need to check him out a bit first.


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## Brendan Burgess

ashambles said:


> As it happens the Simpsons is on the basic package so his "think of the children" argument was flawed.
> 
> I suppose there's no possibility the bulk of that sky package is spent on something more George centered like Sky Sports.



Hi ashambles, I presume George watches the Simpsons as well.


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## Delboy

Dr.Debt said:


> To the people who say that he doesn't know how to run a business "because he lost millions in Ireland's biggest bust" that is even more tripe.
> Thousands of good business people lost money in Ireland's biggest bust (George included) What we need to do is look at how he ran that business before the bust. By all accounts a wonderful success.



I think perhaps you should read up a bit more on George and his 'success' during the boom. There's threads on here about him offering more detail.

As someone said above, anyone could have sold cars during the false boom. It was child's play.
He admitted last night that every property play he made at home and abroad were a disaster.
He admitted in his book to buying 25k worth of bank shares on the tarmac at Dublin airport as he jetted off on an expensive family holiday. He lost all that.
And there's a lot more outlined elsewhere about helicopters etc. 
So do look at how he ran the business before the bust and you will probably have a very different opinion.

He seems to have being a disaster at everything he turned his hand to. But by publicising himself and his problems, he has gained publicity and probably a short career on the motivational speech circuit (Ireland's not big enough to keep someone going at that forever). I believe all the publicity has allowed him to get some notoriety and thus extra leverage with the banks, which has allowed him to keep his 'trophy' family home and a very good lifestyle, well above the average middle class family in this country.

It remains to be seen how his new car business will go. I genuinely hope he succeeds and time will tell. I don't begrudge anyone making money and being a success.
But telling everyone that the country needs 'people like me' is a step too far


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## ontour

Dr.Debt said:


> What we need to do is look at how he ran that business before the bust. By all accounts a wonderful success.



To be honest Dr. Debt I am still not sure if your post is ironic, trolling or your views.

The business was built in a bubble backed by massive debt with no sustainable plan.  On a day to day basis the margins and operations of the business were not being managed.  The car business was rapidly expanding but he still managed to distract himself with an international property portfolio.  It is true that he had created up to 65 jobs but they were not sustainable, such enterprise is not good for those employees or our economy.

There were well run businesses that have failed due to the financial crisis and the economic downturn,  I am not convinced that Mordaunt's was 'a wonderful success'.


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## Dr.Debt

Brendan

I am not saying that I have called it right however I'm not usually taken in by waffle either.

I spend a lot of time dealing with senior personnel and believe me when I tell you that this is the kind of guy you want to make things happen in your organisation

Before he went on the show last night, clearly a lot of people had heard about him and know about him including yourself (his ability to promote is fantastic) his ability to use the media, the radio, the TV to his full advantage  is gobsmacking.
His communication skills are very good and I can only conclude that the bank who cut him the deal shared my view, otherwise he would have been shut down.

Let's keep an eye on him and see who's right.


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## Brendan Burgess

ontour said:


> The business was built in a bubble backed by massive debt with no sustainable plan.  On a day to day basis the margins and operations of the business were not being managed.



Hi ontour

It was actually worse than that. 

He took over his father's long established, successful business and ran it into the ground.  A lot of car businesses went spectacularly bust, and this might have gone anyway, but George certainly ensured it. 

I don't know the background, but it's possible that George bought the business from his father with money borrowed from the bank, so the dad may be ok.  It's also possible that the Dad owns the premises and leased it to the car trading company. This would explain how George is still on site with his online business.


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## Dr.Debt

As I said already above, George would be the very valuable and very scarce resource of any organisation, the creative guy, the entrepreneur, the ideas man, the guy with the vision and the strategy.

Alongside him as I've said already you need a strong manager to control "the margins" and look after all the housekeeping issues and to control the entrepreneur.

Managers are ten a penny, Entrepreneurs like George are scarcer than hens teeth.

The Entrepreneur is the rain maker, the manager is the house keeper. Nothing happens without the Entrepreneur. WE NEED ENTREPRENEURS


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## Brendan Burgess

Dr Debt 

I agree with you 100% about the need for ideas guys and entrepreneurs. 

But I very much doubt that George is the guy.  He is a waffler and there is no evidence of any business skills. It's not enough to come up with ideas. It's not enough to set up a business. It has to be a viable business.


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## ontour

To focus on the positive, even though George's attitude had a deluded sense of entitlement he did continue to engage with the banks to resolve the debt rather than running away.  He may not have agreed with all of the advice of the presenters but he did engage professional advice.  He has started a new business which is paying wages so he is not relying on state benefits.

If George can recover from the mess he put himself in, it has to be a motivation to more competent business people!

Entrepreneurs have the *skills *and initiative necessary to take good *new ideas* to  market and make the *right decisions* to make the idea *profitable*.


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## Sumatra

Just a thought but as it wasn't live TV, perhaps the program editors nudged reality in the direction they wanted it to go.


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## Billo

George was the biggest waffler that I ever heard.
He admitted that everything he tries had turned to disaster.
I certainly would not be backing George with a cent of my money.


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## Gerry Canning

Don,t like the word Entrepreneur, don,t like wafflers, don,t rate media performers .
George seems to fall into my 3 dislikes.

Instead of Entrepreneur can I suggest that those of us in Self-Employed land be called 

UNDERTAKERS ! 

We can then leave Entrepreneurs at it !


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## Sumatra

Excuse me lads, I'll just go to the bathroom.


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## RichInSpirit

Dr.Debt said:


> As I said already above, George would be the very valuable and very scarce resource of any organisation, the creative guy, the entrepreneur, the ideas man, the guy with the vision and the strategy.
> 
> Alongside him as I've said already you need a strong manager to control "the margins" and look after all the housekeeping issues and to control the entrepreneur.
> 
> Managers are ten a penny, Entrepreneurs like George are scarcer than hens teeth.
> 
> The Entrepreneur is the rain maker, the manager is the house keeper. Nothing happens without the Entrepreneur. WE NEED ENTREPRENEURS



Glad to see someone defend George to some extent. I've heard him on radio a few years ago. At one stage he was on the verge of suicide. Before deciding to keep fighting for his life, family, business and all he could save.
I admire him for keeping fighting on. Regardless of whether it's the smartest thing to do.


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Rich

It has been a very misguided fight. 

If he had simply opted for bankruptcy, he would have a fresh slate now and could earn a living and keep all the money for himself and his family. 

Brendan


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## mercman

Brendan Burgess said:


> If he had simply opted for bankruptcy, he would have a fresh slate now and could earn a living and keep all the money for himself and his family.



Saying this Brendan is fine. But would he be able to get a line of credit from a Financial Institution, after his bankruptcy ??


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## Jane Doe

Brendan Burgess said:


> Dr Debt
> 
> I agree with you 100% about the need for ideas guys and entrepreneurs.
> 
> But I very much doubt that George is the guy.  He is a waffler and there is no evidence of any business skills. It's not enough to come up with ideas. It's not enough to set up a business. It has to be a viable business.


George is a waffler all right and when he waffles it is all about him and how he
failed at all his jobs
blames someone else
still deserves everything

When his  Renault dealership business was going [broken link removed]

And sure some back him. They are the very people in the same position who want someone to get leverage through the media with the banks
others who gambled and do not want to pay their debts. The y want someone who will put a spin on it andmake them look good. if the two guys were any good they would have challenged him but instead they are soft on the banks


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## Brendan Burgess

mercman said:


> Saying this Brendan is fine. But would he be able to get a line of credit from a Financial Institution, after his bankruptcy ??



Hi mercman

He is not going to get a line of credit from any financial institution for a long time to come. 

Brendan


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## Joe90

Was there any mention in the show of the case his company was involved in concerning unfair dismissal and wholly unacceptable manner in which the company treated a former employee?  Can't post a link yet....


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## Jane Doe

Joe90 said:


> Was there any mention in the show of the case his company was involved in concerning unfair dismissal and wholly unacceptable manner in which the company treated a former employee?  Can't post a link yet....


No but that is in the legal process


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## Brendan Burgess

Jane Doe said:


> No but that is in the legal process



Hi Jane

Are you sure? 

Is it not sorted by now? 

Brendan


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## Jane Doe

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Jane
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Is it not sorted by now?
> 
> Brendan


i am quite sure it is under appeal.it is appealed to the courts yes? He said on Tipp FM he did not recognise the  employment appeals tribunal

http://thepeninsulairelandblog.file.../beary-v-mordaunt-sons-limited-ud375-2011.pdf


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## Brendan Burgess

HI Jane

That appeal was heard and I have been told that the appeal was rejected. 

But I could find no court record for it.

Brendan


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## Delboy

Jane Doe said:


> i am quite sure it is under appeal.it is appealed to the courts yes? He said on Tipp FM he did not recognise the  employment appeals tribunal
> 
> http://thepeninsulairelandblog.file.../beary-v-mordaunt-sons-limited-ud375-2011.pdf



Interesting to see from that doc that George dealt with repossessed vehicles. I hope he had lots and lots of sympathy for those that were left without....I mean, we need people like them to have vehicles in order to get the economy going again and provide employment!!!


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## Jane Doe

Brendan Burgess said:


> HI Jane
> 
> That appeal was heard and I have been told that the appeal was rejected.
> 
> But I could find no court record for it.
> 
> Brendan


ok i did not know that. Will the tribunal say if that is true, is it publc knowledge? 

BTW well done you kicked it into him re the house on the radio show and he *hid* behind his confidentiality agreement with the bank, Why does he go on radio if he cannot answer pertinent questions.? He seems to say what he wants but if challenged on anything retreats to the confidentiality agreement. there does not sem to be a journalist in the country with the balls to call him


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## Delboy

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Importer
> 
> I was surprised that so much was made of Sky. He suggested cutting it down to the basic package which would have saved George around €40 a month. With a debt of €18m, that should be of no interest to the bankers
> 
> I have heard George on the radio saying that he had to get rid of Sky Sports at the insistence of the banks. I wonder if this was correct and if he was conflating it with the advice from Tommy?
> 
> Then I wondered if Tommy was making a point for TV audiences. But to be fair to them, they were very complimentary of the banks saying that the banks are trying to keep SMEs in business.
> 
> 
> The Sky Sports discussion was completely out of place so I wonder if it was manufactured for entertainment purposes?



Well, it looks like he got to keep Sky Sports but still is'nt happy!!!
https://twitter.com/GMordaunt/status/418398067575230465


> Very pi**ed to be a full @SkySports subscriber & can't watch any of the matches on today. No need for @SkySports now
> It's all @btsport.


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## Brendan Burgess

Delboy

That's great.  Maybe the bank heard him on the radio and took pity on him.

Brendan


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## Delboy

George is on Newstalk now discussing his financial crisis. Said he pulled the trigger on the business despite the advice and mentoring he got from the  experts, as he was fed up waiting.
Also said he's never been in court to have a judgement made against him.

A year or so ago he came across a Snr AIB exec standing outside the gate to his house with a map of the area, looking for George's house. Apparently he wanted to see it and know what it was like.
George resents all the pressure he has come under to give up his home and has letters/assurances before he entered the debt resolution process to say his home was protected.

Ivan keeps on to him saying that bankruptcy would have been the better choice, rather than a judgement

1 of his solutions to the current consumer crisis is for inter-generational mortgages!


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## Brendan Burgess

Thanks Delboy

Caught most of that.

Yates was dead right. Mordaunt should have gone bankrupt years ago.  In fact, he should have gone to the UK. He would be debt free now.  He says that he can still go bankrupt. Of course he can, but he won't be debt free for three years from now. 

He spoke about non-recourse guarantees and "all sums" guarantees. I haven't heard of a guarantee which excluded the family home, but maybe banks did give them. 

Brendan


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## Delboy

He certainly plugged the books and the latest car business enough times during that slot. 

I really liked the piece when it was put to him that a lot of people were critical of him and his debts been written off. It was'nt Geroge Mordaunt in Tipperary that pushed this country over the brink he said!!!, but instead we should focus our ire on FF and Brian Cowen etc, skulling pints instead of running the country!

Good man George, good man


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## jdwex

Brendan Burgess said:


> Thanks Delboy
> 
> Caught most of that.
> 
> Yates was dead right. Mordaunt should have gone bankrupt years ago.  In fact, he should have gone to the UK. He would be debt free now.


He wants to keep his mansion.


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## Brendan Burgess

jdwex said:


> He wants to keep his mansion.



But at what cost? 

If the bank agrees to write off all his debts after x years, but leave him in his family home with plenty of positive equity, then that might be ok.

But if he is hugely insolvent, and probably has a mortgage on his home in excess of its value, he should have gone bankrupt.

Brendan


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## Delboy

He did say that he has'nt missed a single mortgage payment


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