# Middle lane drivers



## rob30 (9 Mar 2007)

Has anyone noticed how we seem to waste the 3 lane roads that we have around Dublin.

It is 14 years since my driving test but I still think overtaking on the inside is still illegal.

It makes my blood boil to see all the people driving in the middle and overtaking lane on the N7, leaving the outer lane a glorified hard shoulder.

I remember the ads years ago that educated people about yelow boxes. Does anyone have suggestions who i could badger about this? I have already annoyed the NRA about the road surfaces in Charleville and Buttevant, Cork, recently and want to leave them alone for a while.


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## Damo (9 Mar 2007)

Couldn't agree more. I did see ads recently on TV re how to use motorway lanes. This ad should be part of a determined effort to educate drivers in Ireland on the use of motorways.

D


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## shootingstar (9 Mar 2007)

rob30 said:


> ? have already annoyed the NRA about the road surfaces in Charleville and Buttevant, Cork, recently and want to leave them alone for a while.



I live near buttevant. i drive a convertible and the ONLY time the roof rattles beyond belief is driving through the town!!! Horrendous road surfaces everywhere and we pay road tax!!!! 

i like how you say you want to leave them alone "for a while".. kick ass


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## nicelives (9 Mar 2007)

I thought that the middle lane was for people driving at the speed limit who are going straight ahead. The left hand lane for people about to take the next exit or for those coming onto the road and then the right hand lane for those overtaking.

The way you seem to be describing it is that the rightest hand lane is for those people overtaking the overtakers on the middle lane and the leftest lane for the bulk of the traffic slowing down at every exit and entrance. 

I'm probably totally wrong and the Irish law probably is for the second scenario, but I belive the first scenario is the most efficient, safest and fastest overall use of three lane roadway.


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## Damo (9 Mar 2007)

Wrong, wrong, wrong Nicelives! This is exactly the problem. The second scenario is correct. For those leaving the motorway there are well flagged slip roads. 

D


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## nicelives (9 Mar 2007)

Damo said:


> Wrong, wrong, wrong Nicelives! This is exactly the problem. The second scenario is correct. For those leaving the motorway there are well flagged slip roads.
> 
> D


 
oops  does anyone else know this? it really seems a wierd scenario where the middle alne is sitting at 100kmph and we should be on the left most lane, how fast does the department want people to speed on the national roads?


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## Humpback (9 Mar 2007)

rob30 said:


> It is 14 years since my driving test but I still think overtaking on the inside is still illegal.


 
I'm with you and your frustrations, but I think that technically you're allowed overtake on the left on motorways in certain situations. Something like making "due progress" on the inside lane if that's not possible because the outside line is full of muppets.


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## nicelives (9 Mar 2007)

ronan_d_john said:


> I'm with you and your frustrations, but I think that technically you're allowed overtake on the left on motorways in certain situations. Something like making "due progress" on the inside lane if that's not possible because the outside line is full of muppets.


I agree, according to the rules of the road you are allowed to overtake on the inside lane if the traffic in the outer lane is moving slower than you. 

That is not to take away from all those drivers who overtake at 120-130 kph on the N7 both on the inside and outer lane, they are still breaking the law and deserve points and eventually to be put off the road. 
The drivers on the middle lane, inner lane and outer lane who, annoyingly for others, are observing the speed limit are the ones observing the rules of the road.


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## redchariot (9 Mar 2007)

The way a 3 lane motorway works (or for that matter any number of lanes) is as follows:

All drivers should drive in the left lane at all times unless overtaking, at which point they move to the next lane to the right overtake the vehicle and move back into the left lane. If they need to overtake traffic on this overtaking lane the move over to the 3rd lane and again move back once the manouvere is complete.

The bottom line is that you should not be in any lane other than the left lane unless you are overtaking or about to overtake traffic.

It is crazy the number of drivers which sit in the overtaking lane at and not making an effort to overtake the vehicles on the left. In fact there are often cases where there is nobody in the left lane and they still continue to travel in the right lane. This is totally irresponsible, not only are they holding up traffic but they are forcing vehicles to undertake on the left which not only is illegal but quite dangerous.


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## gearoidmm (10 Mar 2007)

This has come up before here.  In practice the idea that the leftmose lane on the 3 lane should be used all the time by evertyone is not practical.  I'd imagine that all that lane-changing would be more dangerous.

It seems to me that what often happens in practive is that this innermost lane is used by those driving relatively slowly plus trucks etc.  I don't have any problem with people driving along in the middle lane once they are at or around the speed limit.  If you are getting frustrated in the middle lane with people driving at the speed limit, then you are driving too fast.


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## Humpback (10 Mar 2007)

gearoidmm said:


> This has come up before here. In practice the idea that the leftmose lane on the 3 lane should be used all the time by evertyone is not practical. I'd imagine that all that lane-changing would be more dangerous.


 
It seems to work fine in the UK.


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## RainyDay (11 Mar 2007)

Just drive in the inside line - it's often completely clear!


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## tallpaul (12 Mar 2007)

RainyDay said:


> Just drive in the inside line - it's often completely clear!


 
Spot on. We were on the N7 southbound last Sunday and by doing precisely the 100km speed limt, sailed by at least fifty cars trundling in the middle lane...


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## nicelives (12 Mar 2007)

I always stick the speed limit on the N7, on it twice a day on average, I find the middle lane is where drivers do a comfortable and legal 100mph, we do overtake slower drivers on the left, and people entering and exiting the roadway at exits. I find that a lot of those who overtake on the outside lane are breaking the legal speed limit, and those who overtake on the left hand lane even more so. I generally meet these same drivers again at the traffic lights at Newlands so their progress is slightly imaginary.
The road signage is bizarre over the N7 if the British rule is operational in Ireland, For those progressing to Dublin they are told to be in either the middle or outer lane about five times after the point of leaving the M7 at the ball, every left hand lane sign has the next exit marked a few km before the exit but it does not specify that you can be in that lane if one is continuing to Dublin.


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## Westbound (12 Mar 2007)

I have been on the N8 and stuck behind many cars doing 80KPH on the middle lane and the left lane being empty. forcing me to use the left lane to overtake them. The Guards have a responbility to police the roads and educate drivers as well and maybe should pull a few of these drivers over and explain the error they made. 

As an aside, the dodgy road signage was mentioned: As you come to the end of the new M8 at Fermoy there is a sign that clearly states - Dublin/N8 use both lanes - I stayed on the inside lane, thinking I'd be oK, only to be lead up the exit sliproad for Fermoy! Did I miss something or is this just another example of ill though oput and dangerous signage (dangerous in that if were of a mind, you'd think you were about to head off the road and make a manoueve to get back to where you need to be!)


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## sonnyikea (12 Mar 2007)

ronan_d_john said:


> I'm with you and your frustrations, but I think that technically you're allowed overtake on the left on motorways in certain situations. Something like making "due progress" on the inside lane if that's not possible because the outside line is full of muppets.


 
I'd love that to be the written law. Lawyers all over the country fighting over what constitutes a 'muppet'.

I'm convinced the N7 signage is the cause of the middle lane hoggers. If you were to take them at face value the inside lane is only for people wanting to exit the motorway at the next junction. The fact that people don't use common sense and apply the signage to the traffic conditions is testament to the general poor driving in this country.


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## Purple (12 Mar 2007)

Who do you go too to have a car modified for use by a Muppet?
I suppose there’s a special seat with a hole in it for the arm and a periscope for the puppeteer (or Muppeteer) to see where the road is and some system for the prone entertainer to manipulate the pedals. 
Whatever modifications are made I still don’t see how it can be safe for a car to be driven in such a way and therefore am totally against cars being driven by Muppets.


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## Johnny1 (12 Mar 2007)

Why do everyone call bad drivers muppets? it's another of those really annoying modern slang word's what happened to idiot, morán, ejit?


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## CCOVICH (13 Mar 2007)

Moran is still a fairly common surname in these parts I believe.


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## Johnny1 (13 Mar 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> Moran is still a fairly common surname in these parts I believe.


 CCOVICH I think you need to get your reading glasses it's *morán.*


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## CCOVICH (13 Mar 2007)

I guess you better tell Kevin then.

And while you're at it, go back and correct the other errors in your original post.


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## Johnny1 (13 Mar 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> I guess you better tell Kevin then.
> 
> And while you're at it, go back and correct the other errors in your original post.


Whatever you say spell checker.


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## CCOVICH (13 Mar 2007)

LOL-well if you're going to give out about the words people use.....

And last time I looked, the Irish for moron was _leathdhuine_.  _Morán_ would appear to be a some sort of made up Irish word,a slang word perhaps???


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## Johnny1 (13 Mar 2007)

It's way past your bedtime CCOVICH sleep it off and you'll feel better in the morning.


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## CCOVICH (14 Mar 2007)

Yeah, whatever.  Back to the original topic, heaven help us when the M50 upgrade is complete and we'll have exponentially more _muppets_ who haven't got a clue how the 2nd and 3rd lanes making motorway a lot more interesting.


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## denise1234 (21 Jul 2008)

redchariot said:


> It is crazy the number of drivers which sit in the overtaking lane at and not making an effort to overtake the vehicles on the left. In fact there are often cases where there is nobody in the left lane and they still continue to travel in the right lane. This is totally irresponsible, not only are they holding up traffic but they are forcing vehicles to undertake on the left which not only is illegal but quite dangerous.


 

Totally agree. Coming down the N7 earlier and car in middle lane driving about 80/90kmph. Would not move over to left hand lane although it was virtually empty. Right hand lane was busy so saw a lot of cars overtaking on the left. 
Same last night on N7, was behind one of these drivers. Very, very annoying and dangerous.


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## Silvergirl (21 Jul 2008)

I think the spelling of the word you're looking for is moron! 

The Mallow to Cork road has several stretches of overtaking lane heading towards Cork - the inside lane is completely redundant most of the time apart from the odd truck or tractor and as a result the road is a complete nightmare. Really bad tailgating by lines of traffic the whole way to Cork.

You can almost hear the thought pattern of the law abiding citizens: 'I'm doing 100 and I'm entitled to sit here in this lane making sure no one else breaks the law' these are often the ones who break suddenly at the slightest thing such as an on-coming car (at the opposite side of the road) causing near misses - It's my ultimate frustration!

MOVE BLOODY OVER TO THE LEFT!!


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## shnaek (21 Jul 2008)

Silvergirl said:


> 'I'm doing 100 and I'm entitled to sit here in this lane making sure no one else breaks the law'


Indeed. Road vigilantes.


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## Guest114 (21 Jul 2008)

I blame the government for much of this - bad planning and ridiculous property bubbles caused urban sprawl. These roads now have thousands of cars on them. It's the ratio of cars to road size that causes the problem. I will admit that the bullishness of certain drivers is really bad as well. People leave their homes at 6am to avoid the rush. These people don't take kindly to be held up by someone doing 'just' the speed limit in the overtaking lane.


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## Purple (21 Jul 2008)

AlistairDick said:


> I blame the government for much of this - bad planning and ridiculous property bubbles caused urban sprawl. These roads now have thousands of cars on them. It's the ratio of cars to road size that causes the problem. I will admit that the bullishness of certain drivers is really bad as well. People leave their homes at 6am to avoid the rush. These people don't take kindly to be held up by someone doing 'just' the speed limit in the overtaking lane.


 How is it the government’s fault that people are too stupid to learn basic driving skills?


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## Guest114 (21 Jul 2008)

Purple said:


> How is it the government’s fault that people are too stupid to learn basic driving skills?


 
The government created the social conditions where the roads were going to end up as packed as they are. They are indirectly responsible along with others.


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## Purple (21 Jul 2008)

AlistairDick said:


> The government created the social conditions where the roads were going to end up as packed as they are. They are indirectly responsible along with others.



I don't agree. Bad driving and busy road are not the same thing.


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## Blinder (21 Jul 2008)

nicelives said:


> I always stick the speed limit on the N7, on it twice a day on average, I find the middle lane is where drivers do a comfortable and legal 100mph, we do overtake slower drivers on the left, and people entering and exiting the roadway at exits. I find that a lot of those who overtake on the outside lane are breaking the legal speed limit, and those who overtake on the left hand lane even more so. I generally meet these same drivers again at the traffic lights at Newlands so their progress is slightly imaginary..



Firstly, garda cannot use there speedometer to tell if a car is speeding or not so what makes you think that your one is perfect

Secondly, to all those people driving in the middle lane when the left lane is  free, thanks for that. Thanks for my driving experience this weekend, when sticking to the rules of the road , driving along in the left hand lane when i wasn;t overtaking , I then had to cross two lanes of traffic to overtake you , becuase I don't overtake on the left hand side. Cheers!


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## emmt (22 Jul 2008)

It also drives me nuts to be on the motorway and to see cars driving along in the OVERTAKING lane (not the fast lane) when there is little or no traffic in the inside lane. Overtake the car in the inside lane and then pull in again please, please, please.

This is what I endeavour to do at all times but i find that if if the road is particularly busy, if i pull into the left lane, cars on the overtaking lane are very reluctant to let me out again. They tend to bunch up together or else if they see my indicator on to pull out...they speed up!  In rush hour traffic, from the sliproad onto the M1, there is a long line of cars in the overtaking lane and a handful in the inside lane. I think people could be reluctant to pull in cos they find it hard to get out again.

Also, have you seen the one where there is a crawler in the overtaking lane...you want to pass and so as not to undertake you pull out behind him/her into the overtaking lane. S/he finally sees you...pulls in to let you pass and then pulls out again?????? Whats that all about?


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## Madangan (23 Jul 2008)

Blinder said:


> Secondly, to all those people driving in the middle lane when the left lane is free, thanks for that. Thanks for my driving experience this weekend, when sticking to the rules of the road , driving along in the left hand lane when i wasn;t overtaking , I then had to cross two lanes of traffic to overtake you , becuase I don't overtake on the left hand side. Cheers!


 
 You are so welcome!


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## Complainer (31 Jul 2008)

Yachtie said:


> I absolutely agree and this kind of stuff drives me mental. It is none of your business if I am driving slightly over the speed limit on a road that can handle it (such as N7). I am the one who will have to deal with consequences if I get caught and no, my intention is not to kill you and your entire family any more than it is to kill myself.
> 
> This is obviously not directed at any of the posters just a general rant as I use the N7 at least twice a day and the amount of do-gooder gob****es on it is a greater danger than a relatively small percentage of drivers who drive above the speed limit.



I'm not trying to justify hogging the outside lane, but this is self-serving nonsense. Your breaking of the speed limit may well have impacts on other road users, regardless of your intention.

I've found myself ignoring people flashing behind me on occasions where I have a good reason to be in the outside line, e.g. to avoid traffic flow ahead.


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## Purple (31 Jul 2008)

Complainer said:


> I'm not trying to justify hogging the outside lane, but this is self-serving nonsense. Your breaking of the speed limit may well have impacts on other road users, regardless of your intention.
> 
> I've found myself ignoring people flashing behind me on occasions where I have a good reason to be in the outside line, e.g. to avoid traffic flow ahead.


If you are driving faster than the lane to your left then stay where you are. If not then move in. The guy behind you flashing his lights should not be a factor.


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## Guest114 (31 Jul 2008)

On a three lane motorway, how many lanes are for overtaking ? Genuine question


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## MandaC (31 Jul 2008)

There are some serious speed merchant maniacs on the N7.  

I usually keep to 100km with the traffic in my little Yaris in the middle lane which seems to keep moving at that pace quite comfortably.   The slow lane is usually far slower, though sometimes I can get in there at Rathcoole and move faster than the middle lane as far as my turn off at Kill.  The cars flying by me on the fast lane have to be doing at least 130/140km and more.

The speed limit is there for a reason.  It is not for any one person to make the decision that the road can handle it.  Whatever about the road, drivers can't handle it and that is why there are so many deaths on our roads.  I don't think that a small few drive over the limit on the N7, I think a very large percentage do.  And way above the limits.


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## S.L.F (31 Jul 2008)

AlistairDick said:


> On a three lane motorway, how many lanes are for overtaking ? Genuine question



2 outside lanes are for over taking (I believe).

The inside lane is for slower moving traffic.

If you are the only car on the road you should be in the inside lane until you are going to over take someone.


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## sparkeee (1 Aug 2008)

i think a lot of people are not sure of the driving rules


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