# Garden fencing - concrete posts & wood panels



## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Any recommendations on places (_Dublin _area preferably) to try for garden fencing comprising concrete posts and wooden panels between them (with or without a small "riser" kerb to lift the panels off the ground and mitigate rotting) to replace a 10 year old all wood job which is disintegrating at this stage? Something like the first one pictured [broken link removed]. Ideally one in which the panels can easily be replaced if/when they deteriorate.

[broken link removed]

Any idea of the ballpark all in figure (purchase and installation) for same for both sides of a c. 6-7 metre long area?


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## icantbelieve (27 Apr 2006)

This lot don't have exactly what you want displayed but they may be able to help, even if only to tell you who does supply the fencing you want.

Or maybe this lot for a fence that won't need replacing anytime soon.
www.fogartypvcfencing.com


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## Tonash (27 Apr 2006)

O'Kellys Sawmills in Rathfarnham. Sorry dont have number to hand but they fitted a side gate and fencing for me yesterday and did a great job. I know they do the fencing you're looking for too.....HTH


Edited to add: Sorry didnt look at your first link for O'Kellys!!!!!


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add them to the mix when shopping around. I think I'll pass on the _PVC _fence though.


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## Carpenter (27 Apr 2006)

The "riser kerb" you refer to is in fact a gravel board, intended to retain gravel.  I can't recommend anyone for timber fencing in the Dublin area but I would urge anyone to seriously consider all other options before even contemplating purchasing a pvc fence product.  While PVC windows, fascia and soffit are market leaders and have been in use for many years the use of vinyl going into the future is not sustainable due to environmental concerns.  Check out the numerous articles on vinyl at www.greenpeace.org - I myself have pvc windows,fascia and soffit but I would not use a pvc fencing product.  A common misconception with pvc is that it is "maintenance free"- nothing is absolutely maintenance free.


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## OneAndOnly (27 Apr 2006)

Clubman,

I had this very thing done almost a year ago to the day - got the materials from Abwood in wicklow google should fine them - concrete posts, panels and plinth/kerb bit.  I've 9 * 6' panels so thats about 12 metres or thereabouts.  Can't remember exact cost but seemed cheap at the time < 400 I'd imagine.  Dad and brother cleared existing rotting fence in morning, dug out for posts in afternoon, concreted posts in the following morning using qucik drying stuff and slid panels in that afternoon - job done.


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Thanks _OneAndOnly_ - that's very interesting. I'll check out _Abwood_ as well. I was wondering how difficult a _DIY _job it might be. Might have a chat with the neighbours and see who might be up for it!  What sort of digging out is needed for erecting the posts - e.g. in terms of depth/depth? Is the concrete just a ready mix or do you have to get sand, gravel etc. separately? I should have paid more attention when helping out my brickie father when he was alive...


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## justsally (27 Apr 2006)

Hi Clubman,

The standard panel is 5ft high, the plinth is 1ft, so 6ft in total.  I think 6ft is the acceptable height for a back boundary wall.  The depth of the hole will be the difference between the combined panel and plinth height and the height of the concrete pole - bearing in mind that the plinth sits on top of the ground/soil.    We got O'Kelly "The Shed Man" to supply some and he erected them etc.    When we needed more my hubby decided to do the spade work himself.   You just use rough concrete in the hole.   If you intend planting at the base of the pole then when filling the hole leave a few inches for soil to cover the concrete.   It is not difficult.   One of the advantages of using the plinth is that as the panels are not sitting in soil they can be lifted out (with the help of another strong man) when the backs of them need attention.  But be warned those poles are quite heavy to lift.   

Cheers.


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Thanks _justsally_.


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## OneAndOnly (28 Apr 2006)

My posts were/are 8ft so thats 2 ft below ground level.  A fair amount of digging was involved but the brother being 10 years younger than me a bit of a fitness freak quite enjoyed it!!

Father got some quick drying concrete which is specific for posts I believe and it goes off very, very quick, he just put it in the hole and added water.  I was left half a bag to do a small filling in job behing me shed - I mixed it, answered my phone and the stuff was *solid* in the bucket in < 10 mins...

Good luck.


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## Swoon0 (28 Apr 2006)

Clubman, it's http://www.abwood.ie/ - though I'm sure you already have it !


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## ClubMan (28 Apr 2006)

Thanks everybody for the tips. About the gravel board (what I was calling a "kerb" ) - does that require a foundation and is it created using a mould or does it come precast? Given the choice I'd prefer to go for it but if it means putting in a foundation the length of the garden I might pass on it.

Update: I just found this DIY guide which explains a lot. I'm a bit confused by gravel boards though - that article suggests that they are normally hardwood beams placed under the panels. I'm not sure if they normally sit on a concrete foundation or what. On the other hand I have also seen fences with a concrete "kerb" base (e.g. a few inches high) on which the panels sit. 

Update 2: OK - a [broken link removed] (it helps when you know the technical terms! ) enlightens me a bit. Seemingly you can get softwood, hardwood *and concrete *gravel boards.


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## Carpenter (28 Apr 2006)

Yes, gravel boards come in concrete or timber.  It is normal practice to dig a hole for each post, concrete it in using a lean mix concrete(which is a dryish, weak mix that can be tamped and compacted).  Then pop your gravel board in between each post (acts as a spacer for the posts) and level this while "haunching" the board with more lean mix to keep it in place.  As for the choice of options- if going with a concrete post and timber panel fence I would use a concrete gravel board- as this will be in direct ground contact and timber won't last long in this situation.  If going for a cheaper and lighter timber fence all the components will be timber (ie concrete gravel board not an option).  You can buy readymixed lean mix concrete or alternatively you can buy the prepacked bags of concrete from the DIY store and add the smallest amount of water required to get the mix to have some cohesiveness.  Lean mix must be tamped or compacted for it to achieve any strength though.


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## ClubMan (28 Apr 2006)

Thanks _Carpenter _- very clear advice there. Just a couple more questions... by haunching the gravel board do you mean fixing/binding it in place at the point at which it meets the fence post and its (the fence post's) concrete base? And what sort of approach do you take to tamping/compacting lean mix concrete?

Once again thanks to everybody for assistance on this. Very enlightening.


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## Carpenter (28 Apr 2006)

Haunching is a particular term used in building to describe how you might "butter" the backs of concrete kerbing, pipe surrounds etc with a mortar or concrete to keep them in place.  Generally it is only necessary to haunch the gravel board where it meets the post and midway on the board also to prevent the board from breaking at this point.  Personally I'd shovel the dryish lean mix into place and haunch it up around the gravel board using the back of the shovel.  Then tamp/ compact with either the back of the shovel or a heavy timber post.  If the weather is very dry I'd wet the compacted mix with a watering can fitted with a fine rose to activate the cement otherwise let nature take its course.  Don't over wet the concrete eitherway as otherwise the fence will shift!  It's important to prop and brace the fence while the concrete has an opportunity to go off- say for a day or so.  A few 3x2" posts and some steel pegs are useful for this.  A level is essential of course and even more useful is a post level which has bubbles on two planes and makes for very easy accurate placing of posts.


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## ClubMan (28 Apr 2006)

Carpenter said:
			
		

> and midway on the board also to prevent the board from breaking at this point. Personally I'd shovel the dryish lean mix into place and haunch it up around the gravel board using the back of the shovel.


You mean on bare earth or are you assuning that there will be some sort of concrete bed/foundation running the length of the fence? I wasn't planning on that if I could avoid it!

Thanks for the other tips. Great stuff.


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## Carpenter (28 Apr 2006)

You will want your gravel board to go down about 4-6 inches below the topsoil, maybe more depending on the depth of the gravel board and the lie of the land.  Gravel boards are usually about 200mm or 8" in depth.  This will mean stripping back the topsoil along the proposed route of your fence, by up to 6" to ensure you can get the boards in and level them up etc.  You slot in posts, gravel boards, panels, posts, gravel boards , panels etc as you go, haunching with lean mix as the work proceeds.  I've seen some contractors haunch the full length of the gravel board with lean mix, this results in a very sturdy fence that will deter dogs etc from digging under them!  However if you want to minimise your use of lean mix you need only haunch the ends and the mid point of the gravel boards- backfilling the remainder with topsoil as required.  These are only my opinions based on my experience and I'm sure www.pavingexpert.com might have some further advice on the subject.


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## ClubMan (28 Apr 2006)

Thanks a million for the additional advice. I'll have a read of that site too. Cheers!


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## Carpenter (28 Apr 2006)

I've just had a look at the site myself to see what Tony has say, as follows:   http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur02.htm

You won't go too far wrong with the advice offered there.


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## DrMoriarty (28 Apr 2006)

Looks like you now have all the technical advice you need, ClubMan — but if you're as much of an outdoors/DIY/handyman type as me, you'll want plenty of this, afterwards!


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## Carpenter (28 Apr 2006)

Nah, that stuff is too greasy mate, it's Atrixo you should be using: [broken link removed]


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## Sue Ellen (28 Apr 2006)

Sissies  God be with the days when men wore their blisters as trophies


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## thewatcher (29 Apr 2006)

[broken link removed]

Try them,very reasonable from what i can remember.


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## Carpenter (29 Apr 2006)

sueellen said:
			
		

> Sissies  God be with the days when men wore their blisters as trophies


 
Ah but Sueellen, now we have Health & Safety- read Dermatitis, Sensitisation etc!


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## oirish (30 Apr 2006)

try fingal farm supplies. a family run business in north co dublin. they do a lot of work with my firm. you just tell them the style or type and they as others should give you a rate per linear metre and for whatever height. hope this helps 
slan


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## ClubMan (28 Jun 2006)

Serendipity or what!? Our engineering student neighbour is working at this lark for the summer and did their side of our garden using concrete posts, concrete gravel board and good quality, heavy duty, pressure treated, capped, vertical "hit and miss" fence panels and it's a great job. Very much like the example listed [broken link removed]:

[broken link removed]

He is happy with a €150 contribution from us just to cover costs. Unfortunately the full price quote for the other side (between us and our other immediate neighbours) is €800 now that he knows how much work is involved! We will go with him since the other job was so good and see how we split the cost between us and the other neighbours. Thanks for all the help and advice folks. At least I know enough to tell him how to do his job now.


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