# High Electricity Bills: rural night-saver electricity and am on Direct Debit with BG.



## angela59 (21 May 2011)

Hi,

I am on rural night-saver electricity and am on Direct Debit with Bord Gais. 

I have low wattage lights, dishwash, clothes wash, tumble dryer on at night as is immersion - the kWh we use at night not a problem but even this time of year I'm finding the use of kWh in day still high and can't understand what it is - the only item I can think of is we have an American fridge freezer which is about 14 years old - could this be the cause of my problem? 

The bill for last two months from March until present is €234. The part of bill for day is €150. It is a detached house in country also running our own well. 

Does anyone else thing this is high or have any light to throw on whether it could be american fridge freezer?

Just to add did have a work man here for 3 days building a shed using a circular saw -may this could account for that but bill previous to this was €254.

TIA

Angela59


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## onlineprint (22 May 2011)

I would say the problem is with the fridge to be honest, it would not be energy efficient, we had a similar issue about 18 months ago, high esb bills,  turned off, plugged out everything and then ONLY plugged in the fridge  freezer which was about 10 years old, we got a new fridge freezer and the electric bills went down


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## alexandra123 (22 May 2011)

You would need to be analysing this in terms of kwh rather than cost so that people have a better perspective of the usage. The cost for your electricity is very expensive, but I am not sure what the size of your house is. 

What is the day kwh usage ?
What is the night kwh usage ?
What is the lowest in terms of kwh that you have ever had it at ? How much has it increased since then ?

Even a door bell can use electricity!

Could you tell us what your baseline is ? ie - can you plug everything that you know out and leave it for a couple of minutes or half an hour and see how much electricity has been used. Then plug everything back in and give the new figure ?

Does the Well use a pump ?


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## angela59 (22 May 2011)

Switched from Airtricity to Bord Gais end of November 2010

From 1 Dec '10 to 13 Jan '11 the day Kwh was: 1152
From 13 Jan'11 to 12 March '11 the day KwH was: 1158
From 13 Mar '11 to 13 May '11 the day KwH was: 1013


From 1 Dec '10 to 13 Jan '11 the night Kwh was: 796
From 13 Jan'11 to 12 March '11 the night KwH was: 665
From 13 Mar '11 to 13 May '11 the night KwH was: 644

I will as an exercise plug out applicances, take a reading and plug back in during the week.

The well uses a pump and the pressure in the pump has to be correct as if not it can eat electricity - I have had it checked and it is correct.

The house is 2800 square foot, contains, two adults, two children age 9 and 11 (no major demands for showers Just yet!) All lights in house are either energy saving or 11 watt recessed lights, outside lights are energy saving, we have aqua lisa electric shower use on a daily basis in morning. Oven is used most days A rated. Computer is powered on in morning and swtiched off at night. We have electronic gates used 3 to 4 times a day.

I still think it is american fridge which 14 years old and we also have a small undercounter fridge which is 18 years old. I would love to get to bottom of this. I even discourage the kids from keeping the water running while they are burshing teeth.


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## bluemac (22 May 2011)

I am in the same situation same type of house company, well tumble dryer washing machine and dishwasher on evenings .. old Fridge Freezer etc etc.  I have started monitoring the usage weekly.

Currently using 90 day units and 60 night units a week
my bill last year was €2200 so they tell me when i went on Monthly DD at €183


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## Woodie (22 May 2011)

1. Possible usage problems are the old American fridge. Is the motor running all the time or do ytou notice that it is running a lot? Perhaps the temperature settings are not functioning.
2. Another serious user of juice is well pumps. Given the last winter we had are you sure you have no leakages? You can check usually if the pump is coming on a lot more than usual especially if you are not using water.
3. Emersion, but I'd guess you'd know if you have that on.


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## alexandra123 (22 May 2011)

That actually is quite alot of usage. I am living in a 2 bed apartment around 850 square feet and I use around 380 kwh every 2 months...so my bill is around 80 euro every 2 months.

I dont have a 
shower 
Dishwasher
Dryer
Well

I would hate to have to pay that much on electricity.

I hope you find the cause. You can get a plug on meter that wraps itself around any of the cables and tell's you what the usage is. I think they cost around 80 euro. I think this might be something you should look at as a cheap alternative to understanding the root causes of your problem.


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## bluemac (22 May 2011)

My total bill of €2200 is a little misleading I do also have a geothermal system (so no gas or oil) But its not on from 1 April - 1 of November and costs roughly €3 a day to run so about €450 - €550 of that bill per year.

Mainly the summer day units I feel are very high.  
Need to see how much my well pump and septic tank air pump use.


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## angela59 (22 May 2011)

Hi,

- Woodie, yes I can hear the motor running quite a lot during the day - I am conscious of it.  The water pump is not running when it shouldn't - I keep an eye on this - I get the hubby to pump the air pressure periodically also.  Emersion is only on in night between 6 am to 9 pm - we have night rate electricity.

- Alexandra123, it is quite high the usage but rural rates are higher than urban - it is annoying paying these prices particularly when we are careful.  I will get to the bottom of this and let you know.

- Bluemac, my bill reduces during the summer months as would be normal for most people - I will keep you posted if it does translate to be the fridge freezer.

Thanks for the posts!

Angela59 
Woodie1. Possible usage problems are the old American fridge. Is the motor running all the time or do ytou notice that it is running a lot? Perhaps the temperature settings are not functioning.
2. Another serious user of juice is well pumps. Given the last winter we had are you sure you have no leakages? You can check usually if the pump is coming on a lot more than usual especially if you are not using water.
3. Emersion, but I'd guess you'd know if you have that onWoodie1. Possible usage problems are the old American fridge. Is the motor running all the time or do ytou notice that it is running a lot? Perhaps the temperature settings are not functioning.
2. Another serious user of juice is well pumps. Given the last winter we had are you sure you have no leakages? You can check usually if the pump is coming on a lot more than usual especially if you are not using water.
3. Emersion, but I'd guess you'd know if you have that on1. Possible usage problems are the old American fridge. Is the motor running all the time or do ytou notice that it is running a lot? Perhaps the temperature settings are not functioning.
2. Another serious user of juice is well pumps. Given the last winter we had are you sure you have no leakages? You can check usually if the pump is coming on a lot more than usual especially if you are not using water.
3. Emersion, but I'd guess you'd know if you have that on. Today 06:20 PM


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## Leo (23 May 2011)

Please edit the title of your thread to make it meaningful.
Leo


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## angela59 (23 May 2011)

*High Electricity Bills*

Read meter today 1.03 p.m. and reading for day is 14032 before everthing out. Just plugged American Fridge freezer and under counter fridge back in and read after about hour and half the meter reading for day was 14033. The dial type meter was easier to follow as you read the speed of the dial whether something was eating electricity or not. This translates roughly then that the two fridges use approximately 0.1kwh per hour and half.

Angela59


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## angela59 (26 May 2011)

Just to update for information to those with high electric bills - have just purchased an energy monitor from Argos E28.00 for plug in type - have plugged it into my American Fridge Freezer and will post the results over 24 hours.

Angela59


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## MaxPower (26 May 2011)

I'd guess the immersion is the culprit. 

How do you heat your home?  Do you have storage heaters? They eat electricity. (Speaking from past exerience)

Tumble dryers cost approx €1.08 per hour of use .... use it once a day for an hour and that's approx €30 a month for that.

Hope you figure out the cause. Do keep us all posted.


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## MaxPower (26 May 2011)

Just noticed you say you have an electric shower.  Electric showers use the most electricity in any household. I was told this by an electrician last week. (we were having a new one fitted) 

Anecdotally speaking it costs approx 50 cent for ten minutes showers.  Add this up over the course of a month for your family and that approx €60. This could easily account for a large portion of your bill.


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## angela59 (26 May 2011)

MaxPower said:


> Just noticed you say you have an electric shower. Electric showers use the most electricity in any household. I was told this by an electrician last week. (we were having a new one fitted)
> 
> Anecdotally speaking it costs approx 50 cent for ten minutes showers. Add this up over the course of a month for your family and that approx €60. This could easily account for a large portion of your bill.


 

I'm on the nightsaver electric so water heating, dishwashing, tumble dryer, washing machine all go on between the hours of 12 midnight to 9.a.m. in morning as do showers this rate is 0.07 as opposed to the day rate of 0.1506 - it's what I'm using at peak rate which bothers me most.  I will relay after 24 hours what the fridge freezer cost to run.


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## MaxPower (26 May 2011)

This might me helpful to you:

The formula to calculate the cost of running each appliance:

(kW of appliance) * (Mins in use/60) * (unit cost)


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## angela59 (28 May 2011)

Over 15 hours according to my energy monitor - my American Fridge Freezer use 0.19 cents or 1.30 kwh. So over a year this would cost approx E126 to run - you can buy a new A+ American Fridge Freezer which uses 441 kwh of energy and would cost E66 to run. My own has no problems with - ok it uses double amount of energy of a new fridge but payback would be 10 years so I will be holding on to this. I have a small undercounter fridge which used I audited from 8.15 am t o 1.45 a.m. and cost 0.02 over 5 hours - this in turn costs E31 per yer to run - I forgot to read what kwh it used. I am do a test on my Fish tank at the moment and so far it has cost 0.12 cent to run from 1.45 p.m. today until 12.20 midnight - this is quite high - it has used 0.80 kwh of energy - so this is a luxury. I will run checks on water pumps and other items and relay back


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## zztop (24 Nov 2011)

Well...whats the story?


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## ClubMan (24 Nov 2011)

MaxPower said:


> This might me helpful to you:
> 
> The formula to calculate the cost of running each appliance:
> 
> (kW of appliance) * (Mins in use/60) * (unit cost)


This may overstate the cost of running certain appliances that are not always on - e.g. such as heaters and fridges that are controlled by thermostatic switches etc.


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## angela59 (26 Nov 2011)

zztop said:


> Well...whats the story?


 
As I said previously fish tank was using quite a bit of energy over the 24 hour period with heaters, lights etc - I have since moved to gold fish as they don't require a heater. Water pump was working fine. I have saved on my bill by cutting back on leaving computer switched on all day - leaving it to hibernate instead, switching off kettle at wall also microwave, power shower instead of using the extra boost button just normal boost. I have since changed to ESB and have noticed a reduction in price compared to Bord Gais that was up until September since then the electricity prices have risen across the board.

Angela59


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## Lanni (29 Nov 2011)

*House Monitor*

You should invest in a whole house wireless monitor which is available from most electrical outlets. Just leave it on the mantle peace or somewhere handy, and  you can monitor the amount of electricity in kW's or Euros you are using.

There are special fridge adapters that you can fit to the rear of your fridge, which regulates and reduces the amount of electricity your fridge uses.


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## Leo (29 Nov 2011)

Lanni said:


> There are special fridge adapters that you can fit to the rear of your fridge, which regulates and reduces the amount of electricity your fridge uses.


 
Do you have a link to these? How do they work?


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## Hoagy (29 Nov 2011)

Leo said:


> Do you have a link to these? How do they work?


 
Sounds like the Savaplug.


Not for domestic use at the moment, according to the [broken link removed]


Read a review here.


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## rayatron (7 Dec 2011)

Glad you solved your problem Angela.

For others who may read, I also had high bills. Ive recentily picked up some Owl eletricity monitor, with usb to give me charts on the PC(im a nerd).

I was very surprised that it was my home cinema system that was taking alot of power.
Computer+LCD tv+Reciever box(used for sound to my speakers)...
Never thought Youtube would cost me so much money. 

Leaving it on was costing quite a bit. 

I found the largest amount of my electricity was from using my oven and cooking. A needed requirement but as the oven was on for 2 hours a day + rings for pots. It cost me 35%+ of my bill.

I've significantily reduced this by Boiling water in my kettle for cooking first. Using the microwave for cooking whenever possible(FAR cheaper and quicker). I dont know why i was spending 10-15 minutes heating soup and washing a pot when a microwave takes 3 minutes and no pot.

I also found that it was pointless to heat my water tank for a bit of hot water for washing up, and THEN heating cold water on my cooker/kettle. Use the hot water from tank. Its all the same water and its already hot!

I now wash dishes in the sink rather than dishwasher when i have hot water, I also take my showers in the same tank heating session. I try limit the tank heating to once a day.
I didnt know that after you use hot water, cold water then enters your tank to replace the hot water. Thus cooling it greatly. So if you use hot water at 6pm for washing dishes, then 7:30 for cleaning, theres no way its gonna be hot enough for 9pm shower!. I try get all  my hot water requirements from one heating session.

I've cut out the Dryer which i used 3 times a week in exchange for radiators and air drying. Laundry is a bit more work but its drastically cheaper.

Oh and have your fridge at its low setting, not highest! especially if you only keep a little in it!

My bill is now 60% cheaper than it was!. Happy days.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Dec 2011)

How does the owl help you break it down so specifically, like is your TV and PC on when you are cooking?


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## theTinker (7 Dec 2011)

AlbacoreA said:


> How does the owl help you break it down so specifically, like is your TV and PC on when you are cooking?



It didnt and i dont think it can. It did however highlight huge surges between 7-8(when i cook). So it helped narrow it down, and showed me that my night time usage after my cooking was still quite high. (when im using the net on my big system). lasting 4-6 hours.

To break it down more specifically I had to connect the clip on monitor that SHOULD be on the main ESB cable from my fusebox onto the extension lead leading to my system.

For the cooker, I simply left it on the main cable at the esb box and knocked the rest of the stuff around off. So cooking for an hour or so with no TV or computer on, gave me my sample hour(actually 2).

I dont know of any system that would break it down for you so specifically. It definitely takes a day or so of playing around with things to measure it all, Unless you want to buy a few monitors, but they are expensive enough so one is fine for me!


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## Mrs Vimes (7 Dec 2011)

rayatron said:


> and THEN heating cold water on my cooker/kettle. Use the hot water from tank. Its all the same water and its already hot!



Just to nit-pick a little - water from the hot water tap is not suitable for drinking, water from the cold mains tap in the kitchen is - doesn't really matter anyway if you're boiling it.


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## rayatron (7 Dec 2011)

Why is that if you know?

I only cook with it etc so its boiled, and for making tea, but out of curiousity do you know why? I thought it all comes from the same connection, and all flows around in my copper pipes?


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## esperanza2 (7 Dec 2011)

angela59 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am on rural nightsaver electricity and on Direct Debit with Bord Gais. Have low wattage lights, dishwash, clothes wash, tumble dryer on at night as is immersion - the KWH we use at night not a problem but even this time of year I'm finding the use of KWH in day still high and can't understand what it is - the only item I can think of is we have an american fridge freezer which is about 14 years old - could this be the cause of my problem. The bill for last two months from March until present is E234. The part of bill for day is E150. It is a detached house in country also running our own well. Does anyone else thing this is high or have any light to throw on whether it could be american fridge freezer?
> Just to add did have a work man here for 3 days building a shed using a circular saw -may this could account for that but bill previous to this was E254.
> ...



Dear OP, 

Please read my five energy-saving tips below:

1. Sell your tumble dryer! If it's in good nick you'll make a few quid and in the future you'll be left with no choice but to dry your clothes like those of us without tumble dryers - indoors on a line or a clothes dryer. As a result, you will see your energy bill drop dramatically. You do know that the tumble dryer is the most energy consuming household appliance, don't you? 

2. Sell your dishwasher! Another high-energy consuming device that you don’t need unless you are running a bar or a restaurant. 

3. Make sure your washing machine has a Grade A appliance. According to the SEAI, “an ‘A’ rated appliance will use about 55% of the electricity of a similarly sized appliance with a ‘D’ rating. Always look for the energy label and purchase ‘A’ rated appliances where possible, they can save their replacement cost over their lifetime. and benefit the environment.“ With regards to your washing, do you wash clothes every day? If so, ask yourself is it really necessary? Think of the savings, not only in energy, but also in detergent. You should always make sure your clothes are well dirty before washing. And make sure your machine is completely full and, of course, run it on a short cycle for any clothes not heavily stained.

4. Your fridge freezer. What energy rating does this have? What brand is it? I really don’t think that your fridge freezer is the main problem here, given your daily use of the tumble dryer, dishwasher and washing machine. Your fridge freezer could be eating energy but that's difficult to tell. Is your freezer always full? Remember that a half-empty or an empty freezer consumes more energy.

Do you clean the back of your fridge-freezer regularly? A build up of dirt and dust causes it to function less well and thus wastes energy.

5. With regard to your low wattage light bulbs, make sure they are cleaned and dusted regularly as dirty bulbs consume more energy. If you want to reduce your lighting consumption even further, you might want to consider investing in some LED bulbs, which are far more efficient again than CFLs.

Fyi, I have got all of the useful tips above from a book I'm reading on Eco Living. If you'd like the title, let me know. 

Also worth checking out is a free guide from the SEAI, “Your guide to electricity in the home.” It can be consulted online and no doubt ordered from the SEAI directly too.

If I can be of further help, let me know!

Best of luck!


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## esperanza2 (7 Dec 2011)

angela59 said:


> Just to update for information to those with high electric bills - have just purchased an energy monitor from Argos E28.00 for plug in type - have plugged it into my American Fridge Freezer and will post the results over 24 hours.
> 
> Angela59




Thank you for this advice! Could be well worth investing in.


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## esperanza2 (7 Dec 2011)

angela59 said:


> Over 15 hours according to my energy monitor - my American Fridge Freezer use 0.19 cents or 1.30 kwh. So over a year this would cost approx E126 to run - you can buy a new A+ American Fridge Freezer which uses 441 kwh of energy and would cost E66 to run. My own has no problems with - ok it uses double amount of energy of a new fridge but payback would be 10 years so I will be holding on to this. I have a small undercounter fridge which used I audited from 8.15 am t o 1.45 a.m. and cost 0.02 over 5 hours - this in turn costs E31 per yer to run - I forgot to read what kwh it used. I am do a test on my Fish tank at the moment and so far it has cost 0.12 cent to run from 1.45 p.m. today until 12.20 midnight - this is quite high - it has used 0.80 kwh of energy - so this is a luxury. I will run checks on water pumps and other items and relay back




You didn't say what rating your old fridge freezer was. You could still save heaps on your electricity bill by getting rid of your tumble dryer and dishwasher!  You have a fish tank, as well? Can you not buy a pet that doesn't require electricity?


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## newirishman (7 Dec 2011)

Just one comment on the dishwasher: There's plenty of research that shows that dishwasher is more energy efficient than any washing by hand. Needs also much much less water. Throwing dishwasher out is false economy. 

Also, I can't think about many other things that are more annoying or time-wasting than washing dishes by hand, given the cheap alternative...


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## esperanza2 (7 Dec 2011)

newirishman said:


> Just one comment on the dishwasher: There's plenty of research that shows that dishwasher is more energy efficient than any washing by hand. Needs also much much less water. Throwing dishwasher out is false economy.
> 
> Also, I can't think about many other things that are more annoying or time-wasting than washing dishes by hand, given the cheap alternative...




I've heard that too. But it depends where you live. Where I live, we do not pay anything for our water so it's free. For us, it works out cheaper to do the washing by hand.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Dec 2011)

I'd be interested in that book your reading, the title?


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## AlbacoreA (7 Dec 2011)

theTinker said:


> It didnt and i dont think it can. It did however highlight huge surges between 7-8(when i cook). So it helped narrow it down, and showed me that my night time usage after my cooking was still quite high. (when im using the net on my big system). lasting 4-6 hours....




Thanks for that. I was wondering. Still useful stuff.


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## esperanza2 (8 Dec 2011)

*Eco living books*



AlbacoreA said:


> I'd be interested in that book your reading, the title?



I actually have two: 
1001 ways to save the planet, €3.99
and the Eco-living Handbook, €4.99

Both are very comprehensive, giving tips from how to run your household to buying clothes.


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## Leo (8 Dec 2011)

rayatron said:


> Why is that if you know?
> 
> I only cook with it etc so its boiled, and for making tea, but out of curiousity do you know why? I thought it all comes from the same connection, and all flows around in my copper pipes?


 
Water from your hot taps originally enters the house from the same source, but most installations in Ireland use a storage tank in the attic feeding a hot water cylinder (immersion). The tank use to store water is usually located in the attic, and is not sealed. There is even the chance in many cases where overflows from the heating expansion tank can flow into the water tank. 

So water from your hot tap may have been sitting in this tank in the attic for weeks and be loaded with contaminants, it then passes on to the hot water cylinder, a breeding ground for legionnaires disease if not heated to a high enough temperature on a regular basis before it eventually makes its way to your hot taps. 

So in short, water from your hot tap is only suitable for washing. It is not what is is termed as potable water, and so should not be consumed, used for cooking or even washing vegetables, etc.
Leo


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## ajapale (8 Dec 2011)

OP how often do you check your well water pump system. How deep is your well? What is your average water consumption? What is the rating of the pump? Have you checked your distribution pipes for leaks? (a problem after the last few hard winters). How old is your sub pump and pressure vessel system? (over 7 years and it may need replacing). Are you using this expensive pumped water for purposes other than domestic? ie farming activities, sharing your water with neighbours etc.

aj


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## Mrs Vimes (11 Dec 2011)

Leo said:


> So in short, water from your hot tap is only suitable for washing. It is not what is is termed as potable water, and so should not be consumed, used for cooking or even washing vegetables, etc.
> Leo



Thanks for the detailed explanation Leo, I was always told not to drink water from the hot tap but didn't realise it shouldn't be used for cooking either.

Overflow from the heating system though? Eeew!


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