# Talks of 5% paycut. What rights do I have? Do I have to take it? Can I be fired?



## kingspoofer (1 May 2009)

There is talks of a 5% paycut at work what rights do I have.Do I have to take it can I be fired if i dont?


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## Mpsox (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

You cannot be forced to take a pay cut against your will.

However, if your company is struggling financially and needs to cut costs and doesn't get the savings from a salary cut that it needs, then it may look at redundancies instead.


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## dewdrop (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Three friends of mine told me their pay is being cut by 5% and more so you are not alone!


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## kingspoofer (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Was just told today its going to be 10% what options have I?will bring it from 39 to 35% roughly



Mpsox said:


> You cannot be forced to take a pay cut against your will.
> 
> However, if your company is struggling financially and needs to cut costs and doesn't get the savings from a salary cut that it needs, then it may look at redundancies instead.


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## Mpsox (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



kingspoofer said:


> Was just told today its going to be 10% what options have I?will bring it from 39 to 35% roughly


 
Don't understand what you mean from 39% to 35%

Size of the cut is irrelevant, they still cannot force it on you without your agreement

In relation to being made redundant, any selection for redudancy has to be fair and transparent


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## Guest116 (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Think he means 39k to 35k


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## dewdrop (5 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

While they cannot force you to take the pay cut i think in these times it would be very unwise to contest the issue as you may lend up the loser. Most people are readily accepting pay cuts rather than risk losing their jobs


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## nightdude (6 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

We are also facing a pay cut of 10%

We have been informed that an employer cannot force it upon you if you have not agreed to it as it is breach of contract...
Yet people ARE accepting pay cuts! If you are made redundant for not accepting a paycut, them this is unfair dismissal & can be challenged...
Get together with like-minded collegues & reject the pay cuts

Ours were annonced out of the blue with posters around the workplace blaming the gov. levy & it didn't state if the paycuts were across the board!

What I would like to know is can an employee(s) ask for proof that a company is facing financial difficulty to justify the paycuts to differentiate the chancers (employers) from the genuine? Are we expected to take the employers word that they are facing financial difficulties?


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## Mpsox (6 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



nightdude said:


> We are also facing a pay cut of 10%
> 
> We have been informed that an employer cannot force it upon you if you have not agreed to it as it is breach of contract...
> Yet people ARE accepting pay cuts! If you are made redundant for not accepting a paycut, them this is unfair dismissal & can be challenged...
> ...


 
my understanding is that there has been no increase in employers taxation in the recent budget, therefore blaming the levy is not justified

the risk you take in turning down a pay cut are twofold. Firstly can you be singled out for no pay rise/bonus if and when things do improve and secondly, whilst refusing a pay rise may not be a valid reason for redundancy, it doesn't mean a company won't sack you and take their chances in a wringful dismissal case, knowing full well that the chances of you being reinstated are virtually nil and the amount awarded by the tribunal may not be great.

Having said that, and I think you have touched indirectly on a key point here, if an employer is in financial difficulty, it may be best all round to take a cut, albeit it is hard medicine.


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## Claire1956 (6 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Wow - I am really concerned that the message about the cost of Ireland is not sinking in - we have all made it a very expensive country with our pay demands and companies greedy profits. 

The better paid folks who call Joe Duffy and ask 'how come a meal out in Spain is sooo cheap compared to Ireland?' and 'why are the prices in the north so low compared to ROI?' - do they not get it - its THEIR wages that drive the prices up in ROI....... (If you are on €8.65/hour this remark does not apply)

The clear example is Tesco bypassing the Irish wholesaler/distributor for their stores on the border - if what I saw on TV3 this morn is anything to go by, this will be rolled out across ROI and that will put many Irish operators under pressure.


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## pooly17 (6 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Hi Kingspoofer. Sorry to hear about talks of paycuts. I too have been just informed of a paycut and would appreciate all advice.

Hi all, we too have been just advised today 06 May, of a 6% paycut in the Insurance Sector with effect 01 May, due to the current economic climate. We firmly believe that our company is not struggling as much as they are telling us and this recession is just an excuse to boost their profits. Can anybody tell me what consequences they have faced in rejecting paycuts (redundancy etc) and if there is anyway to prove to staff on how bad the company is really doing (financial reports etc)? Plus, can they advise us today 06 May that we have to take paycut from 01 May. Thank you.


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## meatmonger (6 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



Claire1956 said:


> do they not get it - its THEIR wages that drive the prices up in ROI....... (If you are on €8.65/hour this remark does not apply)


 

even €8.65 an hour is Far too high.  business are not going to start employing people until this comes down.


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## kingspoofer (7 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Same suitation as you.During the boom we were busy as soon as the recession talk came in we were still busy and they said we were on a pay freeze. still busy now and they want us to take a pay cut its a joke.There were people on building sites labouring making alot more money than me a but i stuck it out saying it will even out .now with this cut i go back 4 years in raises till just out of my time.dont see things coming down bottle of cider is over 5 euro shopping still high dont see things down only wages.





pooly17 said:


> Hi Kingspoofer. Sorry to hear about talks of paycuts. I too have been just informed of a paycut and would appreciate all advice.
> 
> Hi all, we too have been just advised today 06 May, of a 6% paycut in the Insurance Sector with effect 01 May, due to the current economic climate. We firmly believe that our company is not struggling as much as they are telling us and this recession is just an excuse to boost their profits. Can anybody tell me what consequences they have faced in rejecting paycuts (redundancy etc) and if there is anyway to prove to staff on how bad the company is really doing (financial reports etc)? Plus, can they advise us today 06 May that we have to take paycut from 01 May. Thank you.


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## pooly17 (8 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

Hi kingspoofer. I totally understand. I think theres alot of people out there who think serve us right and that we're lucky to have a job, when there are so many people out of work. I do feel sorry for everyone out of work at the moment and am grateful to have a job. But it really annoys me to see employers reaping the rewards. Enjoy the cider and the weekend. Let us know how you get on with paycut.


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## kingspoofer (10 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*

I ended up taking the pay cut. I dropped from 39k to 35k; just about what I started when I came out of my time. 

Im not impressed over it at all. God help the fellow from the government comes looking for my vote - ill run them a country mile.

Its wrong to no raise during the boom when fellows driving loaders were getting €900 a week and now things are quiet it jump on the band wagon.

As for people who say your lucky to have a job I never missed a day for first three years out of 8 and rarely miss one now so not luck  just dedicated.


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## redstar (11 May 2009)

Myself and other colleagues were not given the luxury of a pay-cut. Just redundancy.

My income has been cut from 60k to Jobseekers Benefit.

Believe me, a 5% or 10% cut is very reasonable considering the alternative.


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## Mpsox (11 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



Claire1956 said:


> Wow - I am really concerned that the message about the cost of Ireland is not sinking in - we have all made it a very expensive country with our pay demands and companies greedy profits.
> 
> The better paid folks who call Joe Duffy and ask 'how come a meal out in Spain is sooo cheap compared to Ireland?' and 'why are the prices in the north so low compared to ROI?' - do they not get it - its THEIR wages that drive the prices up in ROI....... (If you are on €8.65/hour this remark does not apply)
> 
> The clear example is Tesco bypassing the Irish wholesaler/distributor for their stores on the border - if what I saw on TV3 this morn is anything to go by, this will be rolled out across ROI and that will put many Irish operators under pressure.


 
so how big a pay cut did you volunteer to take?


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## Purple (11 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



Mpsox said:


> so how big a pay cut did you volunteer to take?


The cost base in the export sector has had to remain competitive over the last few years so if the company is maintaining margin relative to international competition then their wages are not too high. If the company is servicing the domestic sector then the chances are that wages are too high relative to the same sort of company in the rest of the EU. When we stop losing jobs, foreign direct investment picks up again and Irish companies are competitive across the EU (and the rest of the world) then wages will not be too high any more.
A good rule of thumb should be that since we are a small peripheral island off the coast of Europe with little or no indigenous high-tech companies our wages (and therefore our cost base) should always be well below the EU average.


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## Mpsox (11 May 2009)

*Re: Pay cut*



Purple said:


> The cost base in the export sector has had to remain competitive over the last few years so if the company is maintaining margin relative to international competition then their wages are not too high. If the company is servicing the domestic sector then the chances are that wages are too high relative to the same sort of company in the rest of the EU. When we stop losing jobs, foreign direct investment picks up again and Irish companies are competitive across the EU (and the rest of the world) then wages will not be too high any more.
> A good rule of thumb should be that since we are a small peripheral island off the coast of Europe with little or no indigenous high-tech companies our wages (and therefore our cost base) should always be well below the EU average.


 
Wouldn't argue with what you are saying, however I have an issue with companies which are highly profitable trying to impose pay cuts on staff. for example, my employers are asking us to take a 5% pay cut, they only made a profit of $1.3bn last year and the CEO is only taking a 1% cut in his overall package. Rather then a paycut, perhaps Irish employers should move to proper performance related pay structures where bonuses and rises not only reflect an individuals performance, but also that of the company

Paycuts can also be a lazy management response to their own incompetence. Amongst my suppliers I have 4 companies whose invoicing is so bad, late and often wrong, I'm not sure how they have managed to stay in business, however at least 2 of those have also tried to get staff to take paycuts.


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## davidoco (11 May 2009)

how about offering to work more hours for no change in pay ala bill cullen late late 8th may


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