# Parents gave site, I used as security 4 bank loan. Site not registered in their name.



## know it all (24 Feb 2011)

A site was given to me by parents so that I could give it as security for a loan.

I have just discovered that my parents were not the registered owners of the site. The site still forms part of a field which my parents have been farming uninterupted for over 30 years.

The site was in the process of being transferred from my parents to me when the bank accepted it as security.

Has anyone an opinion to offer here?


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Feb 2011)

What is your question? 

You still owe the money on the loan. 

The bank's security is worth less or maybe even worthless as a result. 

Did you solcitor give an undertaking that the site would be transferred? if so, why did it not go ahead?


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## nuac (24 Feb 2011)

An application will have to be made to the PRA to have your parents registered as owners     Thye may then transfer to you.

Talk to your solicitor.


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## know it all (29 Mar 2011)

> An application will have to be made to the PRA to have your parents registered as owners


Who would have to make the application?


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## Bronte (30 Mar 2011)

Your parents solicitor.


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## know it all (30 Mar 2011)

> You still owe the money on the loan.


The loan is being paid back. I should have been clear on that.

What I would like to know is that if there was a default who is responsible if the security is not right? The site was marked out on an osi map but when I saw a map from the land registry recently it showed it overlapping with someone else's property.

What will happen if the registered owner objects to all this and wants to keep his property? Can we claim squatters rights?

Thanks.


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## dazza21ie (1 Apr 2011)

The Land Registry themselves admitt that their maps may not be accurate for boundaries. Since they digitalised their maps last year there have been numberous problems because the digitalisation caused some boundaries to move. I would always advise clients that as a rule of thumb the boundary on the ground (if it has been there for some time) is the correct boundary unless proved otherwise.

In relation to your hypothetical question if you default on a loan (whether secured against property or not) the lender can pursue you for repayment.

If there was a problem with the lenders security they may seek compensation from your solicitor as s/he probably certified title for them.


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## know it all (2 Apr 2011)

> digitalisation caused some boundaries to move


It is definitely not a problem with a boundary. The PRA map clearly shows the boundary of my parents farm and the boundary of the site in question is clear to see. This site marked out of the field has gone unnoticed for over 30 years. The land registry have given us the folio number and registered owners but do not have any documentation as to when the site was taken out of my parents folio number.

My parents gave me this site in good faith in that it did not belong to someone else.

Who is responsible for checking that evrything is in order before a transfer is signed and documents submitted to the PRA?


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## ajapale (2 Apr 2011)

Hi KIA,

I dont understand.

When your parents transferred the site to you did you use a solicitor?

aj


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## know it all (3 Apr 2011)

> When your parents transferred the site to you did you use a solicitor?


Yes.

Deeds of transfer were signed at the time. Bank wanted security for the loan so I used the site. The site is still not in my name as I dont have a folio number yet.

Will the PRA see the problem when documents are submitted and, who will they contact?


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## ajapale (3 Apr 2011)

Im still very confused.

If you are not the registered owner of the property how did the bank secure the loan?

What was the amount and term of the loan and what is outstanding?

What does your solicitor advise?

follow nuac's advice:


nuac said:


> An application will have to be made to the PRA to  have your parents registered as owners.     They may then transfer to  you.
> 
> Talk to your solicitor.


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## Bronte (4 Apr 2011)

know it all said:


> .
> 
> Deeds of transfer were signed at the time. Bank wanted security for the loan so I used the site. The site is still not in my name as I dont have a folio number yet.
> 
> Will the PRA see the problem when documents are submitted and, who will they contact?


 
So your parents signed a deed of transfer to you and your solicitor submitted the document to the PRA for registration, meanwhile the bank gave you the loan based on this as the solicitor signed off on the title.  But you haven't been registered yet and there is a problem because your parents are not registered owners of the site or the farm?


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## mf1 (4 Apr 2011)

"What I would like to know is that if there was a default who is responsible if the security is not right? "

"Will the PRA see the problem when documents are submitted and, who will they contact? "

What OP wants to know is: 

Can I make the solicitor responsible for the debt? 

The reality here is that the OP is not telling the whole story. I think the suggestion being put forward is that because the security may be defective ( and remember we are hearing a carefully edited version of events ) that the debt is in some way transferable to a third party. 

Without knowing the facts e.g. how precisely  could land, not registered in the parents names, be transferred into the offspring's name to be used for security? A simple  check of the folios/ deeds would have shown that issue on day one. 

So, would it be fair to assume that various undertakings/ promises were given by all parties concerned to the bank/ solicitor that it would be sorted out - no bother and that based on that, monies were advanced?  

Or is it likely that a solicitor would not spot this? Or that the parents would not know that they were not the registered  owners of the site? 

Who knows?


mf


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## Bronte (4 Apr 2011)

know it all said:


> The site was marked out on an osi map but when I saw a map from the land registry recently it showed it overlapping with someone else's property.
> 
> .


 
Where did you get the land registry map for another person's property?

You said in your first post that the site was part of a field owned by your parents.  So it has 4 'boundries' at least.  Are all of these surrounded by your parents field?  Are your parents registered as owners of the site.


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## know it all (4 Apr 2011)

> What OP wants to know is: Can I make the solicitor responsible for the debt?


Read the 6th post.



> The reality here is that the OP is not telling the whole story.( and remember we are hearing a carefully edited version of events )


You can say that about every post so why do you bother responding.



> A simple check of the folios/ deeds would have shown that issue on day one.


Whose job is it to check the folio? Mine or the paid solicitor?


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## mf1 (4 Apr 2011)

So. 

What does your solicitor say to all of this? You must have asked? 

mf


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