# Key Post: Credit card charges and insurance



## daltonr (21 Aug 2003)

I'm reading the Application form for Ulster Banks Zinc Card.

I presume If I apply after writing this I'll be refused, but there you go.

Section 13.1 of the form says:

The maximum liability of the Principal Cardholder will be €30 per Account for any losses arising from the use of any card or PIN be any unauthorised person before the Bank receives notification in accordance with Condition 12.1.  If someone carries out a fraudulent transaction using your card Card details on the internet or by telephone or mail order You will not be liable for the fraudulent transaction.  However, where the law allows, You will be liable for all losses to the Bank arising from the use of any Card by any person obtaining possesion of it with a Cardholders consent or where a Cardholder has been grossly negligent.

Section 12.1 just gives a 24 hour phone number where you can notify them that you've lost the card or had it stolen etc.

But the brochure also tries to flog you their Card Protection Plan Costing a minimum of €45 per year.  That's 50% more than your maximum exposure,  and even if your card was stolen it is unlikely to be used before you've had a chance to cancel it.

The "Benefits" of the plan are:

Worldwide protection around the clock with a 24 hour hotline for cancelling all your lost or stolen cards.  

   *That'd presumably be the same 24hour line that you have 
     anyway.

Up to Up to €5000 per policy holder emergency cash advance if you're left without funds following a card loss when you're away from home.

    *Which I presume you pay interest on.
      This is a straightforward cash withdrawal which you could 
      do using internet banking, and an ATM card.

Up to €8500 per policy holder for replacement travel tickets home if your tickets are lost or stolen with your cards when away from home.

    *But the card comes with free cover for ALL items you 
      purchase against accidental damage, loss or theft for 100 
      days.  So you are already probably covered if you bought 
      the tickets with the card.

Just what exactly is the point of this insurance?????

Also, the much touted €40 euro reward if you spend more than €5000.

You must spend the 5K before December 31st 2003, so you don't have a year to do the spending, and there is no mention of a similar offer next year.  Despite the implication that it is an ongoing offer.  It may be ongoing but that isn't mentioned in the brochure.

-Rd


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## MugsGame (22 Aug 2003)

Also, when I looked, the UB FX commission was more than my current AIB VISA card (1.5% vs. 1%  IIRC).


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## daltonr (22 Aug 2003)

The form I have says their non-Euro transactions attract a 2% commission.  Ulster Bank that is.

Also...

Exceeding your credit limit incurs a €6.35 charge.
Compared to no charge on AIB Gold Card.

Missing a payment incurs a €6.35 charge.
Compared to €3.81 on AIB Gold.

Not that I'm a particular fan of AIB's Cards.  But like all financial products Ulster bank is giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

To be fair, if used properly Zinc probably is the best value card around, but compared to the UK we're still have very limited choice over here.

There slogan is interesting though.  "If you're smart with your money you deserve the lowest rate".

If you're smart with your money you shouldn't be carrying a balance so the rate shouldn't matter.

-Rd


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## stobear (22 Aug 2003)

It really does sound a bit double egded and just goes to show to read all the details of so called insurance, nice exposure daltonr!!

On that €40 stamp duty charge, we (wifey and I) are thinking of scrapping one card (mine is an UB one) so I think its for the scissors!!

Stobear
Apart from the above , I think UB provide a good internet banking service and haven't made any major mistakes with me anyway.!


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## rainyday (22 Aug 2003)

> if used properly Zinc probably is the best value card around



I disagree - Amex Blue with their 1% cash-back deal is the best value, though it is not quite so widely accepted as Visa or Mastercard.


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## daltonr (22 Aug 2003)

Rainyday,

I've searched the Amex Blue site and not been able to find any mention of the interest rates.  Usually a sign that they're nothing to be proud of.

Also 1% back on 5000 is 50.  Spending 5000 with zinc gets you 40 back.  Granted if you don't manage to spend the 5000 with Amex you still get something back.

When you factor in the fact that it's accepted in less places do you still think it's the best all round card?

What extra charges does Amex have?  I can't find anything on the site.  Which worries me a little.  As a general rule if a website doesn't show APR's and charges, I don't waste my time looking any further.

-Rd


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## rainyday (22 Aug 2003)

Hi RD - I'm not sure of the rates. As I would clear my account each month (almost all of the time), it is not really an issue for me. They don't seem to have any of the more sneaky charges (e.g. late payment charge on top of the interest charge). For me, it has certainly been the best value card. For anyone who travels a lot on business, it presents a painless opportunity to make 1% of your travel expenses.


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## Dr Moriarty (22 Aug 2003)

*Re: Amex Blue*

I'd agree with rainyday here. I got the Amex Blue card last December and my cashback total so far is edging towards the €200 mark. Granted, a lot of places (especially smaller retail outlets) won't accept it, because Amex charges the retailer a higher commission than Visa or MasterCard — so I held onto my BoI Mastercard as a fallback. But all the major supermarkets, filling stations, etc. take it (I've 5 kids, so our weekly groceries bill alone generates a fair amount of traffic). Earlier this year I booked 7 flights to Spain with Ryanair, which gave me about €20 cashback. Even after deducting the extra €40 govt. duty each year, it still pays me to use it.

Of course, whatever card you use, you're going to lose that benefit if you don't clear the balance each month — which I do religiously, even if it means the occasional term loan.

Dr. M.


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## daltonr (22 Aug 2003)

Your right actually.  Re-reading my original post I should have said that if used INCORRECTLY zinc is probably the best card around.  It rewards people who carry large balances but pay at least the minimum and never go above limit.

Blue is probably the best card if you are spending a lot but clearing your balance every month.  I don't know how big an issue accpetance is.  I don't recall seeing many Amex stickers, but then I don't look out for them.

Incidently I found the charges  info...

This is UK information...

Charges
No annual fee unless you spend less than £500 in which case
£15 fee.

A WHOPPING £15 fee if you miss a payment.

A WHOPPING £15 fee if you go over your credit limit.

A WHOPPING £15 fee if you pay by a cheque or Direct Debit which is not honoured.

Interest Rates
APR for purchases 18.9% or 20.7% if annual spend is less than £500.

APR for cash ranges from 19.4% to 22.4%.
Fee for Cash is £1.50 or 1.5%

Also,  not a big fan of the following:

"We will disclose information about you, your Account and charges on your Account (which may include details of goods and/or services purchased) to companies within the American Express group of companies worldwide (including other organisations who issue the Card)"


As an all round card I'd rate zinc higher than that.

-Rd


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## rainyday (22 Aug 2003)

I'm 100% that one of the Whopping fees you list above doesn't apply in Ireland (the missed payment fee). I suspect that the others don't apply here either.


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## daltonr (22 Aug 2003)

Possibly.

I can't find an Irish site.  Their global page has almost every country except Ireland.

-Rd


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## rainyday (22 Aug 2003)

See [broken link removed] for rates/fees for the Irish card.


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## tedd (23 Aug 2003)

I too have converted to Blue! Over the last year, it's become accepted at a lot more places and it has been a painless way to subsidise all my banking costs for the year and then some.

They also gave Rainyday a truck-load of wine for converting me over!!  

tedd


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## rainyday (23 Aug 2003)

And the Italian white was very pleasant - The extra joy that comes from knowing that a bank had donated it just added to the pleasure.


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## Right Said Fred (24 Aug 2003)

*Speaking of Credit Card Scams!!!!*

I get my annual travel insurance from the nice bankers at AIB Credit Card services. Cost went up dramatically this year to €125 but that's not my complaint. 

They now insist that you purchase the full holiday with your credit card in order for the insurance to be operable. (up until this year you only had to pay €1 off the hoilday with your credit card to activate the insurance)

However the nice people in the travel industry slap a nice little (or not so little) charge on you holiday for using your credit card to pay for the holiday. 

Rip off Ireland... oh how it will all go horribly wrong soon.

Any suggestions?? Apart from getting my travel insurance somewhere else as my renewal has just passed and they have my annual premium!!!


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## tedd (24 Aug 2003)

Definitely get your insurance elsewhere next year!


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## daltonr (25 Aug 2003)

*Re: Speaking of Credit Card Scams!!!!*



> Any suggestions?? Apart from getting my travel insurance somewhere else as my renewal has just passed and they have my annual premium!!!



Tell them you want a refund NOW!, and you won't be paying for your holiday on your credit card.

As a rule of thumb.  Never buy any insurance that you are not legally obliged to hold.  It's a choice of maybe loosing money, or definitely loosing money.

-Rd


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## Observer (2 Sep 2003)

*Another option*

Can I helpfully mention the Tesco Personal Finance Visa Card which gives you back 0.5% of your purchases in the form of Tesco Clubcard points.  As good as cash, given that you have to buy groceries anyway; admittedly not as good as 1% back from Amex Blue but more widely accepted.


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