# Investment in some shares, can it be fraud?How can i be sure?



## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

Hello,

I'm hoping somebody can help my out with a couple of questions.

Since september 2009 i am a shareholder of a company that is registered in the UK. Today the company has no longer an active website, i cannot reach them by email or telephone and have gotten no official information what so ever from them.
The only information i found myself through the internet was that there was a strike off of the company or they may even be dissolved. Anyway you turn that, i know it's not good. The only thing i want to know for sure is, do or do they no longer exist, are they completely out of business, are they maybe undergoing a restructuring and will they be reactived or taken over. At this point i'm going from the scenario that i've lost my money, but i have no idea in what way i need (as an official shareholder) need to be informed officially by them or somebody about maybe a bankruptcy or whatever. What happens then? They have certain assets i think? Is there maybe a chance that i can get some of my money back. A lot of questions where i can no longer find anymore answers too. Has somebody experienced this themselves? Has somebody got a clue or advise what i can do or which steps i can take? The 'broker' where i bought these shares was a company called 'Commercial First Trading' and is now taken over by 'Westbrook Associates' and both of them are not really helping me. I would be very gratefull for any reply of course.

Thanks a lot.
Best regards.
Tom


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## bullworth (21 Sep 2011)

who convinced you to buy the shares ? Did you buy them after receiving a cold call phonecall from  a stranger ?


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## Sunny (21 Sep 2011)

I think you know the answer to your query. Where did you hear about this 'broker'?


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

@ bullworth :   indeed, after a cold call from a stranger. I know......the most stupid decision of my whole life, but anyway, that's 2years ago, i just want to find some answers and close the chapter. The company is 'dissolved' I've gotten that information from the "Companies House" and they advise me to legal advise with a solicitor.
Should i contact a solicitor in the UK or where i'm from(Belgium) there i'm not yet sure what to do.

@ Sunny : I indeed think i know the answer to my question already a long time. I've regret this 'investment' 2weeks after i did already, but anyway i want to close the chapter, with what outcome there is, but therefor i need first some answers...


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## aristotle (21 Sep 2011)

Harsh lesson learned. Forget about wasting your time trying to chase this down. You were scammed.


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

aristotle said:


> Harsh lesson learned. Forget about wasting your time trying to chase this down. You were scammed.


 
What makes you so sure?The company exists for 4years, i've already found some ex-employees through linkedin. There is official information about a 'dissolvement'... Is it not worth just not to let this go?


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## bullworth (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> @ bullworth :   indeed, after a cold call from a stranger. I know......the most stupid decision of my whole life, but anyway, that's 2years ago, i just want to find some answers and close the chapter. The company is 'dissolved' I've gotten that information from the "Companies House" and they advise me to legal advise with a solicitor.
> Should i contact a solicitor in the UK or where i'm from(Belgium) there i'm not yet sure what to do.



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/19/share_scam_sucker_list_warning/

As I thought Tommy. You were probably called from some kind of spammer list as outlined above. I would report the scam to the police and also write to them with a full outline of your case.

I would also have a read of this site of the UK financial services centre and complain to as many avenues as possible.
[broken link removed]

You might not get your money back but you can at least help to build  a case for conviction against whoever it was who scammed you.

Also check out this link for complaining:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

You need to report both the company and the broker who sold  the shares to you.


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## aristotle (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> What makes you so sure?The company exists for 4years, i've already found some ex-employees through linkedin. There is official information about a 'dissolvement'... Is it not worth just not to let this go?


 
What proof have you that the person who rang you out of the blue and asked you to invest in a random company was legitimate? Sure, the company might well be a valid real company but you should have made sure you knew who you were dealing with.

I just don't know of companies who randomly ring phone numbers looking for people to invest in their company.

How much did you invest? Hopefully you haven't lost too much.


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

I am busy with step 1 and 2. This saturday i have an appointment at the police office with somebody i personally know. She will make the report as full as possible and pass it in the best way possibile to our Federal Police. Hopefully they can help me in what way possible. But i know that chances are very small to recover any money. Thanks for the info and help!


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

aristotle said:


> What proof have you that the person who rang you out of the blue and asked you to invest in a random company was legitimate? Sure, the company might well be a valid real company but you should have made sure you knew who you were dealing with.
> 
> I just don't know of companies who randomly ring phone numbers looking for people to invest in their company.
> 
> How much did you invest? Hopefully you haven't lost too much.


 
i don't have that proof. They did keep calling me for 2years giving me updates. They did send me certificates of the shares made by a company in the UK.But are these certificates real? It's a fact that i wanted to try out a new way of investing, something else then real-estate, the problem is that i initially told myself not to invest more then 10000€, but at the end invested 30000€ which will probably be all gone. I will continue through the police and also a sollicitor to recuperate some of it, but chance are small that i know and realise and it's a hard leason, but i've certainly learned from it....the hard way.


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## Sunny (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> i don't have that proof. They did keep calling me for 2years giving me updates. They did send me certificates of the shares made by a company in the UK.But are these certificates real? It's a fact that i wanted to try out a new way of investing, something else then real-estate, the problem is that i initially told myself not to invest more then 10000€, but at the end invested 30000€ which will probably be all gone. I will continue through the police and also a sollicitor to recuperate some of it, but chance are small that i know and realise and it's a hard leason, but i've certainly learned from it....the hard way.


 
Don't be spending more money on solicitors. Honestly, you are wasting your time.


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## aristotle (21 Sep 2011)

I suppose we are all assuming it is a scam. 

It is worth getting a solictor to check out for sure if that is the case.


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

Sunny said:


> Don't be spending more money on solicitors. Honestly, you are wasting your time.


 
Are you sure Sunny? So, i just need to leave it at this then??


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> They did keep calling me for 2years giving me updates.



They do this to sell you even more shares. 


I agree with the general advice given. Let the police know but don't bother spending any further money on solicitors. Your money is gone. You are now a lot wiser. 

Brendan


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## aristotle (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> Are you sure Sunny? So, i just need to leave it at this then??


 
With respect to everyone here you should do what you think is right. Take all the advice and make your own decision.


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

aristotle said:


> I suppose we are all assuming it is a scam.
> 
> It is worth getting a solictor to check out for sure if that is the case.


 
Indeed, i just want some answers to be able to close the chapter you know. Uncertainty is just harder then to know 100% for sure that nothing is to be done. That's how i feel at least.

Thanks for the answers!


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## Tommy1981 (21 Sep 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They do this to sell you even more shares.
> 
> 
> I agree with the general advice given. Let the police know but don't bother spending any further money on solicitors. Your money is gone. You are now a lot wiser.
> ...


 
In the 2years...sorry they never tried to sell more shares... they only said over and over and over to keep being patient. but anyway, i know enough from all answer given. thanks


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## Sunny (21 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> In the 2years...sorry they never tried to sell more shares... they only said over and over and over to keep being patient. but anyway, i know enough from all answer given. thanks


 
What's the name of the company you apparently invested in? PM if you want. I have access to certain databases that may have some info on it if it is a UK or Irish company.


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## bullworth (21 Sep 2011)

They usually call you after your initial investment to influence you to invest more probably with lies about how well your initial investment is doing. I'm shocked you lost 30k. Although you should be wary of throwing more money away on solicitors you should definitely send written complaints as well documented as possible to every single official government regulator involved for the cost of a few stamps and  a bit of paper. It might help build a case against the fraudsters and at the very least help future victims.


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## Sunny (21 Sep 2011)

They are based in Indonesia. Doubt they are even regulated there and are certainly not regulated in Ireland or any other European country. There is nothing regulators can do apart from issuing a public warning that this firm is operating here without permission. Let the regulator know but dont expect much.


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## PMU (21 Sep 2011)

First,  if you bought the shares through a broker you should contact the broker  concerning the issues raised in your post.  Secondly,  you should contact the Registrar of Companies in the   UK to  determine if the company is dissolved, in liquidation, whatever, and  see what information they hold on the company.  Thirdly,  you should contact the company’s shares registrar to confirm you are a  shareholder.   They may also be able to answer your questions.  The main  registrars in the  UK are Capita, Equiniti and ComputerShare. 
I don’t know anything about the companies mentioned in your post but a quick internet search would have alerted you to a warning  on ‘Commercial First Trading’ by the Danish FSA.  
[broken link removed]
You could also check with the Central Bank to see what status (if any) these companies have under the Investment Intermediaries Act 1995.


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

Sunny said:


> What's the name of the company you apparently invested in? PM if you want. I have access to certain databases that may have some info on it if it is a UK or Irish company.


 
I invested in the company Cosmoseis PLC.
Saturday i have an appointment with the police and they will transfer it to the federal police, everybody is giving me tips for further steps, what are the most important ones?


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

PMU said:


> First, if you bought the shares through a broker you should contact the broker concerning the issues raised in your post. Secondly, you should contact the Registrar of Companies in the UK to determine if the company is dissolved, in liquidation, whatever, and see what information they hold on the company. Thirdly, you should contact the company’s shares registrar to confirm you are a shareholder. They may also be able to answer your questions. The main registrars in the UK are Capita, Equiniti and ComputerShare.
> I don’t know anything about the companies mentioned in your post but a quick internet search would have alerted you to a warning on ‘Commercial First Trading’ by the Danish FSA.
> You could also check with the Central Bank to see what status (if any) these companies have under the Investment Intermediaries Act 1995.


 

1)They are indeed dissoled, that information i got by email from Companies House Contact Centre .
2) Registrar of Companies in the UK : where do i do this?
3)company’s shares registrar to confirm you are a shareholder: and where do i do this?
4) i did indeed found the warning about commercial first, but not initially...
5) check with the Central Bank, do i do this by email? is this a database?


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

bullworth said:


> They usually call you after your initial investment to influence you to invest more probably with lies about how well your initial investment is doing. I'm shocked you lost 30k. Although you should be wary of throwing more money away on solicitors you should definitely send written complaints as well documented as possible to every single official government regulator involved for the cost of a few stamps and a bit of paper. It might help build a case against the fraudsters and at the very least help future victims.


 

Believe me, i've regretted the investment already for 2full years and hardly a day goes by without thinking about it. that's why i just want answers and put this behind me.   written complaints to every single official government regulator? where can i do this?

thanks again!!


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## Sunny (22 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> I invested in the company Cosmoseis PLC.
> Saturday i have an appointment with the police and they will transfer it to the federal police, everybody is giving me tips for further steps, what are the most important ones?


 
They are one of the common company names that comes up in these scams. You have lost your money so I think you just need to accept this and move on. 

As for letting regulators know, you just simply tell the regulator of the Country where you were when they called. Be advised though, this is simply so the Regulator can put it on their website where they list unregistered companies operating in their jurisdiction which might help future potential victims. You can search this online to see if they are already there. 

As the "broker" you dealt with was not registered, you are probably not eligible to take advantage of any compensation or complaints procedure that a regulator might have in place. You have told the police. There is not much else you can do I am afraid.

Here is the Irish Central Bank's list of unauthorised firms operating in Ireland that they are aware of and also details about how you report them.

[broken link removed]


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## aristotle (22 Sep 2011)

Some info on the scam...

[broken link removed]


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

aristotle said:


> Some info on the scam...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

Sunny said:


> They are one of the common company names that comes up in these scams. You have lost your money so I think you just need to accept this and move on.
> 
> As for letting regulators know, you just simply tell the regulator of the Country where you were when they called. Be advised though, this is simply so the Regulator can put it on their website where they list unregistered companies operating in their jurisdiction which might help future potential victims. You can search this online to see if they are already there.
> 
> ...


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## Sunny (22 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> I know that their names comes up, but they were listed though on the bourse, not everybody can just list i think? I have accepted the fact that i lost my money already a while ago, but that does not mean i do not want to have all answers and report it. i've waited way too long to do so, just becaused i was ashamed of my stupidness. I've not yet told the police, that's for this weekend, i have an appointment with them and have printed out all transfers,emails,whatever that can help them out. We'll see what they can find out extra..


 
The company you might have bought shares in might have been listed on some stock exchange and might have been completely ligitimate but the broker that "sold" you the shares was not authorised to sell the shares or even to operate in Ireland. It is these you report to the Central Bank, not the company you might have bought shares in. 

Even though I notice that you appear to be talking about Federal and State police. You are obviously not in Ireland.


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

Sunny said:


> The company you might have bought shares in might have been listed on some stock exchange and might have been completely ligitimate but the broker that "sold" you the shares was not authorised to sell the shares or even to operate in Ireland. It is these you report to the Central Bank, not the company you might have bought shares in.
> 
> Even though I notice that you appear to be talking about Federal and State police. You are obviously not in Ireland.


 

Can i check the existence of the share certificates that i got? It's indeed the 'broker' that i'm worried about. But anyway the police and federal police will be able to find out more also through the account where the money was transferred to, but correct, i'm not in Ireland, i'm from Belgium.


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## bullworth (22 Sep 2011)

Tommy1981 said:


> I have accepted the fact that i lost my money already a while ago,



The only consolation I can offer you is that you might be able to set this 100% loss against future capital gains for taxation purposes. 




Tommy1981 said:


> i've waited way too long to do so, just becaused i was ashamed of my stupidness. I've not yet told the police, that's for this weekend, i have an appointment with them and have printed out all transfers,emails,whatever that can help them out. We'll see what they can find out extra..



Your embarrassment is normal but you will feel much prouder of yourself if you battle the embarrassment and do it anyway. The embarrassment is part of their sick scam and the longer it has power over you the longer they will be damaging your self esteem and future well being. It will do wonders for you in being able to come to terms with what happened and move on poorer yet wiser and hopefully recovering to feel a lot better. The authorities see this scam every day and you will just be another file in their system and they will deal with it professionally.


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## Tommy1981 (22 Sep 2011)

bullworth said:


> The only consolation I can offer you is that you might be able to set this 100% loss against future capital gains for taxation purposes.
> 
> I don't quite understand what you mean with 'future capital gains for taxation purposes' Can you explain that one? :-/  Thanks
> 
> ...


 
I know that i have to go forward with this. And i know there are probably thousands and thousands of people like me, i just thought i would be smarter than this to have me fooled like this, but what is passed is passed. I will inform the police as complete as possible and hopefully they are able to track some things, maybe provide some answers and spare other people from this kind of scams and also from the embarrassement, but these days, the internet is just not a safe place anymore.


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## Tommy1981 (28 Sep 2011)

To all:

Just to keep people that might be interested or encounter (hopefully not) something similar updated about my actions.

As mentioned the last time, last weekend i had an appointment at the policde office. The officer took 2hours to make a report! for which i was of course very thankfull and which is i think an exception. The report and my comment was sent today towards the Federal Police who is planning on looking at all of this 'tomorrow'. Altough the chances of a 'positive' outcome are small, taking the step off going to the police has been a big relief and it seems i was lucky with the choice of the police officer too. Let's hope the others are as ambitious as her and then i do expect for some 'answers' to come.

Gr


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## Klai (3 Oct 2011)

What a shamefull case..I would never invest in a company that is not too popular to just disappear from sight. It's important to make queries to official organizations that register such companies and check all the available information. Anyway, thanks for informing about your issue, it's better to learn by someone else's mistakes..


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## Tommy1981 (3 Oct 2011)

Klai said:


> What a shamefull case..I would never invest in a company that is not too popular to just disappear from sight. It's important to make queries to official organizations that register such companies and check all the available information. Anyway, thanks for informing about your issue, it's better to learn by someone else's mistakes..


 

You are right! I wish i would have learned from someone else's mistakes too, but the truth is indeed that i thought that at the moment itselve, i did enough research, but it's clear that it was far from enough. As far as the police of federal police, i got the quick reply in the meanwhile that the 30K is just not enough to investigate the case any further, so it's a done deal.


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