# Returning to Ireland after 10years - mortgage debt



## FloJo (22 Apr 2021)

Hi there,

Hope I’m in the right place to ask this questions.
So My ex partner and I got into difficulty with our mortgage in 2008, like many of us with job loss and pay cuts etc at that time. He was in construction so was let go pretty early on and had no income and I tried to make payments and did the best I could working two jobs to try make ends meet but the situation was not improving so We left Ireland in 2011. We then split up and he disappeared basically up to work on the oil rigs with no contact for a number of years.  (I have heard sporadically from him over the ten years but he is not interested in anything to do with the situation and has no intention to return to Ireland again)

I organised a tenant move into the house and any rent received was paid into the mortgage. That was until early 2015. I was then pregnant on an unpaid maternity leave.  There were a number of tenant changeovers, it was extremely difficult to manage from abroad particularly with a newborn and so I got a management company. They were even more difficult to deal with. Anyway, the last tenant left In 2015 and I guess I just gave up.

I know the house was sold in may 2019.
There is a significant shortfall, approx 160k
I have had no contact at all with the bank since August 2013.

I would now like to come back to Ireland with my two children due to my marriage breakdown. But I don’t know what is in store for me, how I should approach this, what I should do?

Will I be found? Should I come clean? I will have little money, single parent 42 yrs old, two kids, no job initially. I hope to go back and finish a course at night that will eventually lead to a teaching job but even with that I won’t have much money with two kids to support. 

I have a family owned home (my parents holiday home ) that I can live in for as long as I need. I’m guessing I won’t ever get another mortgage or loan in Ireland again 

If Anyone’s got any advice I would be so grateful!


----------



## PIPPOP (22 Apr 2021)

Hi Flojo,

Not an uncommon story, but difficult all the same.

Since you left Ireland the bankruptcy laws have changed meaning you could be discharged in one year. There is also a mechanism called a DSA (Debt settlement arrangement).

If you have nothing of value, you would enter into a bankruptcy, have the debt written off and be done with it after a year (all going well). The matter is then dealt with and you dont have to look over your shoulder anymore. It would not release your ex partner from his obligation, just you.

Book in with MABs for a consultation when you are back and they will guide you to a professional.


----------



## elcato (23 Apr 2021)

I would not do anything regarding bankrupty or MABS. It's highly highly unlikely you will be found and more than likely that the debt has been written off. Once you get your feet here you can check your credit rating and see what is there. In the meantime don't worrry and get on with your life. Worst case scenario, you can take the bankrupty route should anything suddenly happen as regards this or if you feel you want to get it sorted at a later date. Good luck.


----------



## PIPPOP (23 Apr 2021)

elcato said:


> I would not do anything regarding bankrupty or MABS. It's highly highly unlikely you will be found and more than likely that the debt has been written off. Once you get your feet here you can check your credit rating and see what is there. In the meantime don't worrry and get on with your life. Worst case scenario, you can take the bankrupty route should anything suddenly happen as regards this or if you feel you want to get it sorted at a later date. Good luck.


But going to MABS and getting advice does no harm? They wont contact creditors without consent. If the house was only sold in 2019 and there is a residual debt then the bank has a couple of years to get a judgement. I guess like you are saying you can just wait it out and nothing might happen which is true. But I suppose it depends on the person and whether they want to face their issues or not. One route gives closure, the other leaves you waiting and worrying your past may eventually catch up with you. But of course it may not...


----------



## FloJo (24 Apr 2021)

Thanks for your responses
I think eventually I would like to present myself as such and offer something for peace of minds sake, won’t be much but I can at least try. And if that’s not accepted, bankruptcy I guess is the other option. 

But I would like to have some time to set myself up at home first without being hounded. It’s a massive decision to take my kids out of here where I have a good job and no debt and a nice lifestyle to bring them home but I...and they....need to be around my family especially now that my marriage has ended’and ended badly. I’d hate the thought of stepping off the plane and barely have my coat off and the banks knocking  at my door.
I have two questions about this, what would alert the banks to my return? Is there any link with use of my PPS number or setting up a simple current account that might flag up? I’ve no intention of taking out a loan or credit card, I can use my American credit card for the foreseeable. 
And secondly the shortfall was about 60k capital and 100k in interest and legal fees. Given that the house is sold, that debt is now unsecured debt right? Would that mean that the 6 year statute of limitations applies to this situation with the clock ticking from the date the house was sold? I’m a little confused with that piece. Or does the clock tick from when the judgement order was made for the bank to go ahead and sell the house?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (24 Apr 2021)

You must get professional advice on this. 

You have no assets. 

So go bankrupt.  You will be completely debt clear after a year.  (not sure if there is a residency test, but a professional will advise you on this.) 

No need to go ducking and diving or hoping for the statute of limitations to work. 

If there is a residency test for bankruptcy, it will take a bit longer. 

If your family has a bit of money, the lender will probably do a deal and settle the debt for a small payment now.

Brendan


----------



## Thirsty (24 Apr 2021)

How long would it take for the bankruptcy to clear from your personal record?

If the OP wanted to buy a house in say 5 years, would she be able to get a mortgage?


----------



## FloJo (24 Apr 2021)

Thirsty said:


> How long would it take for the bankruptcy to clear from your personal record?
> 
> If the OP wanted to buy a house in say 5 years, would she be able to get a mortgage?


Yes I would like to know the answer to this.
I have a little savings here. I need some of it to transition home and set myself up with the kids in Ireland. The rest I would be willing to hand over so I don’t have this hanging over me for the rest of my days.
But I would like to know if I go bankrupt, have I absolutely no chance of getting even a small mortgage again 7/8 years down the road?


----------



## PIPPOP (27 Apr 2021)

Your name is always on the Bankruptcy Register. 

I cant post links but there is a post on here of someone who got a mortgage with BOI 4.5 years after bankruptcy.


----------



## elcato (27 Apr 2021)

To the OP: Banks don't have swat teams checking people coming into the country. They have not contacted you for 8 years and have basically sold the house (somehow) without either your consent nor signature. As far as they're concerned that is the end of the matter. Your only danger is that perhaps they started sending letters to your parents address (not an uncommon practice in credit control land) and they may have engaged and paid off the money. Your credit as it stands is toast. Whatever has been added to the credit bureau regarding this si there already and won't get wiped. Even if you paid all tomorrow it would still be toast for whatever the term is. At some stage in the future that debt will be statute barred and you will get a mortgage. In the meantime stop trying to add to your burden and worry about something that is unlikely to happen.


----------



## PIPPOP (29 Apr 2021)

elcato said:


> To the OP: Banks don't have swat teams checking people coming into the country. They have not contacted you for 8 years and have basically sold the house (somehow) without either your consent nor signature. As far as they're concerned that is the end of the matter. Your only danger is that perhaps they started sending letters to your parents address (not an uncommon practice in credit control land) and they may have engaged and paid off the money. Your credit as it stands is toast. Whatever has been added to the credit bureau regarding this si there already and won't get wiped. Even if you paid all tomorrow it would still be toast for whatever the term is. At some stage in the future that debt will be statute barred and you will get a mortgage. In the meantime stop trying to add to your burden and worry about something that is unlikely to happen.


Do you really think that a shortfall of 160K from 2019 wont be bothered with? Granted they dont have swat teams, but they do have teams who work on this. 

If the OP were to inherit property in the next few years then it could provide an opportunity for the bank to recoup some of their losses through a JM. Probably unlikely, but still a consideration. Some people I suppose are happy to take the chance/risk and do nothing, which is fine. But there are those who would prefer to get certainty, even if it is financially detrimental. My view is, if you go bankrupt the debt is gone and cant come back to haunt you in the future when you least expect it.


----------



## FloJo (30 Apr 2021)

Thanks for the responses. Pretty sure that as a result of this I wont be inheriting anything down the line, not in my name anyway or at least not until this is dealt with. My children might though....I dont know what happens there, can they pursue that?
I know they dont have SWAT teams but I do know that if I applied for credit for example, I would flag up, which I wont be applying for but I guess my original question was is there anything else that might bring me to their attention? Is there any way PPS activity would flag up? I do think I will deal with this in time but I need some time to get on my feet and re-established in Ireland before they come knocking.
The bank did attempt to  contact both sets of parents many years ago and were ignored. My parents then sold their house so they now do not have an address for my family. My exs parents last correspondence from the bank was a letter in 2019 to say they had sold the house and we owed 160k. They have not got anything since.
The last time I spoke to the bank was august 2013. I had flown home while I was pregnant as my original tenant, from when I first left, had left and left the house in a state so I came back to have it cleaned up, repairs done , new appliances installed and hired a management company and secured a new tenant. I phoned the bank to tell them basically that we were gone with no intention of returning and that any rental income obtained from the property was going directly to them, which it did. I also used to send back money to top up the difference between the rental income and the mortgage repayment amount but once my first kid was born and I was on mat leave I could not afford that and my ex had washed his hands clean of it all at that stage.
I would love to see or know what kind of deals people make with the banks for amounts of this size. My future disposable income with two kids will not be much. But if a lump some were to be put forward (I dont have one but Im wondering if I could scramble something together) what realistically would even be considered. Does anyone have any knowledge of similar cases to this and what they may have settled for?
Again thanks for the responses, I am reading them with interest.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (30 Apr 2021)

FloJo said:


> Pretty sure that as a result of this I wont be inheriting anything down the line, not in my name anyway or at least not until this is dealt with.



Bankruptcy is the solution here.  You will be out the other side in one year and any inheritances after that will not be touched. 

If you don't have much income , then you are not going to get credit anyway so having your name on the Register of Bankrupts won't affect you.

Brendan


----------



## FloJo (30 Apr 2021)

Yes I understand and this is likely the route I will take ultimately. 
Would my credit rating here, that has been kept in good standing for the last 10 years since leaving Ireland, bear any weighting on a decision if I were to apply for a mortgage post bankrupcy (4/5 years later)?
I would have a modest income as a middle income earner on a teachers salary as a single parent with two children to support but I would imagine the monthly rental amount  I am going to be paying anyway would be comparable to a small mortgage repayment, hence I had hoped to find a solution that would not rule that out entirely as an option down the line.


----------



## RedOnion (30 Apr 2021)

FloJo said:


> I know they dont have SWAT teams but I do know that if I applied for credit for example, I would flag up, which I wont be applying for but I guess my original question was is there anything else that might bring me to their attention? Is there any way PPS activity would flag up? I do think I will deal with this in time but I need some time to get on my feet and re-established in Ireland before they come knocking.


There is no magical flow of data here.  You applying for credit with a different bank will not alert the original lender of anything.  But it will show up on the new banks credit check, and you won't be able to borrow.
The use of PPS in Ireland is tightly controlled by legislation, and can only be used for specific purposes.  You getting paid a salary won't be in any way visible to the lender.  Your tax of social welfare records are not public.

You need to find out whether or not this is on your credit record to begin with, and then work out what to do.

The debt became unsecured when the house was sold, so there is a 6 year statute of limitations from that date.  But Statute of limitations isn't a magic bullet - it only gives you a defense if the lender initiates legal proceedings after that date.  It doesn't automatically remove the debt from you Central Credit Record.

In terms of a deal, the lender might make a deal to remove your name from the debt but leave the remaining outstanding in your husbands name.  It gets complicated when only one of the original borrowers engages, and it can be very difficult to come to an arrangement even if you pay 50% of the debt.

I think the fact that you are not resident in Ireland, and there isn't an Irish property involved any longer, might limit your options when it comes to a Personal Insolvency Arrangement, or Bankruptcy here before you move back. A specialist in the area will be able to advise you.



FloJo said:


> Would my credit rating here, that has been kept in good standing for the last 10 years since leaving Ireland, bear any weighting on a decision if I were to apply for a mortgage post bankrupcy (4/5 years later)?


No. Your credit rating ignores the debt in Ireland,  so has no bearing.

Banks are getting used to dealing with post bankrupt cases, so look at them on a case by case basis. The sooner you start the process, the sooner you'll come out the other side.


----------



## Versandvoort (5 May 2021)

I know someone in a similar situation, the debt was written off completely they only found out by getting a copy of their credit report. It will be removed from the credit report later this yr. I hope this will the situation for you and you can start afresh with your children, best of luck


----------



## FloJo (5 May 2021)

Versandvoort said:


> I know someone in a similar situation, the debt was written off completely they only found out by getting a copy of their credit report. It will be removed from the credit report later this yr. I hope this will the situation for you and you can start afresh with your children, best of luck


Thanks for the response. Can I ask was it that this person was unaware that there was a shortfall owed after the sale of the home and only discovered there was outstanding debt when they went to get a copy of their credit report? When was the house sold ? Wouldnt I be lucky if this was what happened! Id be interested in learning more about this story if you would be willing to share? Thank you!


----------



## FloJo (5 May 2021)

RedOnion said:


> There is no magical flow of data here.  You applying for credit with a different bank will not alert the original lender of anything.  But it will show up on the new banks credit check, and you won't be able to borrow.
> The use of PPS in Ireland is tightly controlled by legislation, and can only be used for specific purposes.  You getting paid a salary won't be in any way visible to the lender.  Your tax of social welfare records are not public.
> 
> You need to find out whether or not this is on your credit record to begin with, and then work out what to do.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Regarding my credit record where I currently am in the US, I guess I was hoping if I do go bankrupt after moving home and I guess years down the line if I were to apply for credit, that I can demonstrate I was a credible borrower in my ten years here, no payments missed ever. I understand from a technical perspective it would not impact or improve my credit rating in Ireland. 

Im not intending to go bankrupt from here, if that is even an option from abroad. I have an equitable property here which will be sold as a result of my marriage breakdown. The proceeds of the sale will fund a return to Ireland if thats what I decide to do. It wont be a huge amount but it will pay off my loans here before I leave and set myself and my kids up with furniture and a small car and I suppose float me for a while until I find work in Ireland.


----------



## Versandvoort (8 May 2021)

FloJo said:


> Thanks for the response. Can I ask was it that this person was unaware that there was a shortfall owed after the sale of the home and only discovered there was outstanding debt when they went to get a copy of their credit report? When was the house sold ? Wouldnt I be lucky if this was what happened! Id be interested in learning more about this story if you would be willing to share? Thank you!


Hi, no the person knew of a shortfall but the bank never came to collect! Bizarre....house was sold 9 yrs ago


FloJo said:


> Thanks for the response. Can I ask was it that this person was unaware that there was a shortfall owed after the sale of the home and only discovered there was outstanding debt when they went to get a copy of their credit report? When was the house sold ? Wouldnt I be lucky if this was what happened! Id be interested in learning more about this story if you would be willing


----------

