# School Secretary Jobs



## Mers1 (21 Jun 2010)

Hi, 

Just wondering if anyone can shed any light on school secretarial jobs, I dont think I have ever seen one advertised, what are the hours/pay etc like?  I would have an interest at primary level.  Is it a case of applying directly to the school with CV?

any information at all would be super.

Many thanks in advance,
Mers1


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## Bigbird (7 Jul 2010)

I would suggest approaching the principal in your local school and telling him/her that you are interested in this line of work. Ask him/her how you go about it.  A lot of the public sector jobs especially in schools in this country are administered to people who know either the principal or someone on the board of management.  In my view it's ethically wrong however, we are living in Ireland and lagging behind our European counterparts in terms of ethics!


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## Complainer (7 Jul 2010)

Bigbird said:


> A lot of the public sector jobs especially in schools in this country are administered to people who know either the principal or someone on the board of management.  In my view it's ethically wrong however, we are living in Ireland and lagging behind our European counterparts in terms of ethics!


Most schools are not public sector. They are privately owned (usually by the parish or a religious organisation) and the board of management are responsible for recruitment, even though the State foots the bill. 

So you can cast your nasturtiums about public sector recruitment in another direction. Public sector recruitment in general is far more open, transparent and equitable that anything that exists in the private sector.


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## Bigbird (8 Jul 2010)

Sorry Complainer but I totally disagree. The recruitment process is fairly closed shop in my area.  Perhaps it's different in your neck of the woods but where I'm from it's corrupt.  I've had nepotism wave me in the face on many occasions in relation to certain jobs.  That to me doesn't sound too equitable or transparent?  My credentials are in order, grades 100% and references outstanding however, we've come to the conclusion that it's who you know and not what you know.


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## Complainer (8 Jul 2010)

I'm often amazed how people seem convinced that recruitment or procurement exercises are corrupt because they don't get the job. If you don't have the inside information on the full range of candidates/suppliers that were available, then it is really unfair to allege corruption. Your grades/credentials/references may be great, but the other guy's stuff might be even greater.

What organisations are you talking about, Bigbird?


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## Bigbird (8 Jul 2010)

Complainer, I have a job thank goodness!


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## dereko1969 (8 Jul 2010)

That's fine and dandy Bigbird but Complainer's question still stands - what type of job were you going for and how certain can you be that the person that got the job instead of you had lesser qualifications/experience?

I don't doubt that school secretary jobs may be "ready-ups" but as was pointed out they're not properly defined as being public sector jobs as they're appointed by the board of management in the schools.


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## Bob_tg (8 Jul 2010)

Are schools really private organisations, though?  If they are funded by the state, then surely there is an argument that they are at least semi-public?  One for Joe Duffy tomorrow afternoon, perhaps....


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## huskerdu (8 Jul 2010)

Bob_tg said:


> Are schools really private organisations, though?  If they are funded by the state, then surely there is an argument that they are at least semi-public?  One for Joe Duffy tomorrow afternoon, perhaps....




All National schools and most secondary schools in Ireland are owned and run by private organisations ( i.e churches), even though the state pays the wages of the teachers and provides most of the funding. 

I think that this is a corrupt situation and churches should NOT by running our state funded schools. 

If you agree, you should start campaigning your local politicians on this issue. 

If it was an easy as ringing up Joe Duffy,  it would have been sorted out years ago.


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## Complainer (8 Jul 2010)

Bigbird said:


> Complainer, I have a job thank goodness!


That's great for you. But what's that got to do with this discussion?




Bob_tg said:


> Are schools really private organisations, though?  If they are funded by the state, then surely there is an argument that they are at least semi-public?  One for Joe Duffy tomorrow afternoon, perhaps....


Yes, they are private - mostly. VECs and community schools/colleges are state operated, but most other schools are privately owned.


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## Marietta (8 Jul 2010)

Complainer said:


> I'm often amazed how people seem convinced that recruitment or procurement exercises are corrupt because they don't get the job. If you don't have the inside information on the full range of candidates/suppliers that were available, then it is really unfair to allege corruption. Your grades/credentials/references may be great, but the other guy's stuff might be even greater.
> 
> What organisations are you talking about, Bigbird?


 
Alot of the school secretarial jobs especially in Catholic schools are done by people on FAS Community Employment Schemes.  Other wise you got to be well in with the local Padra and be seen to be going to Church and Holy Communnion, in other words be a good little Catholic.


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## Bigbird (8 Jul 2010)

Yeah thats the problem with our schools. You have to be 'well in' with people (i.e. friends etc.) in order to get work. It's disgraceful especially since it's taxpayers money that's paying the wages of these people. Just who do they think they are? Some of the problems in the recruitment process (by the Board of Management and Principals) of teachers in our schools include nepotism, unqualified teachers teaching our children, retired teachers going back subbing while the misfortunate newly qualified teachers (NQT) fresh out of college isn't given the chance. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't a lot of politicans ex teachers? It would make sense as I feel they look out for one another on the job front too and look after "their own". Just browse through the following posts on educationposts.ie- its jaw-dropping stuff:
There are loads and loads more but I'm a busy mum who needs to organise my little mr. sunshine for the morning.


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## Bigbird (8 Jul 2010)

Well, I can only send links from internet after posting 15 posts. I haven't achieved  that yet! If you would like to view them then I can pm you.  They make for very interesting but worrying reading!


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## Complainer (8 Jul 2010)

OK, so to get back to my original point - church schools are not public sector.

So this would be a good time to withdraw your allegations about 'public sector recruitment'.


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## Bigbird (8 Jul 2010)

Yeah I agree complainer even though it's not part of' civil service' recruitment process it's still taxpayers money which pay for the staff invovled in these privately owned schools.  as a result I feel that he recruitment process should not be in the hands of board of management. the process has to change.  yeah i know it's fair play for staff in the civil service.  perhaps I misunderstood your post originally.  i thought you were suggesting that employees in schools had nothing to do with the public sector. can we put that point to bed as i want to focus on things like nepotism etc.? (as in previous post)


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## Complainer (8 Jul 2010)

Personally I'd like to see that the church has no role in state-funded education, but that's a bit of a bigger debate. Nepotism will only stop when people stand up to it. Have you spoken to the parents rep on the Board of Management?


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## Mpsox (9 Jul 2010)

if church schools ( as most schools are) are not public sector, does that mean teachers are not public sector employees?. Do they pay the public sector levy rates (indeed do school secretaries)?. Why did the teaching trade unions have a vote in the Croke Park agreeement if their members were not public sectors employees?


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## Complainer (9 Jul 2010)

Mpsox said:


> if church schools ( as most schools are) are not public sector, does that mean teachers are not public sector employees?. Do they pay the public sector levy rates (indeed do school secretaries)?. Why did the teaching trade unions have a vote in the Croke Park agreeement if their members were not public sectors employees?


There are lots of non-public sector people covered by the Croke Park agreement, including school staff, and staff in independent health providers (e.g. Rehab, Enable) where the Govt ultimately pays for the service.


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## liaconn (9 Jul 2010)

Bigbird said:


> Yeah I agree complainer even though it's not part of' civil service' recruitment process it's still taxpayers money which pay for the staff invovled in these privately owned schools. as a result I feel that he recruitment process should not be in the hands of board of management. the process has to change. yeah i know it's fair play for staff in the civil service. perhaps I misunderstood your post originally. i thought you were suggesting that employees in schools had nothing to do with the public sector. can we put that point to bed as i want to focus on things like nepotism etc.? (as in previous post)


 
Bigbird

You said 'a lot' of public sector recruitment is down to nepotism. Are you now retracting that?


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## Purple (9 Jul 2010)

My views on this are based on anecdote and limited first hand experience but for what it’s worth I think that the closer you get to the civil service the less abuse there is. That applies to recruitment, expenses and labour flexibility. As you go further away from that core, into the so-called commercial semi-states and bodies that are funded but not run by the state the worse the abuses are.

I was part of a tender for a contract for one of the public transport organisations and we were told how much cash had to be given to what people in order to get the work. I suspect that was very much the exception but I don’t believe it would ever happen if we had been dealing directly with the civil or public service.

In my opinion the very worst abuses take place when so-called professionals (doctors, lawyers etc) are running organisations which are funded by the state (HSE etc) but the state carries out no oversight.

Complainer has rightly pointed out that school management are not public sector employees and so the accusation that nepotism etc in recruitment of school staff is an example on the public sector is incorrect and unfair.


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## dereko1969 (9 Jul 2010)

Purple if you're going to make claims against the public transport company's officials seeking bribes you should really inform the authorities about this.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> Purple if you're going to make claims against the public transport company's officials seeking bribes you should really inform the authorities about this.



Probably but it was all verbal and to be honest I don't want the hassle


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## dereko1969 (9 Jul 2010)

And that's why things will never change.....

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."


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## Deiseblue (9 Jul 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> And that's why things will never change.....
> 
> "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."



 + 1

I can however see Purples point , if you base your case on anecdotal info and limited first hand experience then you are unlikely to be taken seriously by anyone.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> + 1
> 
> I can however see Purples point , if you base your case on anecdotal info and limited first hand experience then you are unlikely to be taken seriously by anyone.



Touché 

I agree; it's one thing having a discussion on an internet forum, after all it isn't a court of law, and we are here to give opinions and relate experiences that others may find interesting or learn from, but it's another making criminal accusations that you have to stand over in court.


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## Deiseblue (9 Jul 2010)

Purple said:


> Touché
> 
> I agree; it's one thing having a discussion on an internet forum, after all it isn't a court of law, and we are here to give opinions and relate experiences that others may find interesting or learn from, but it's another making criminal accusations that you have to stand over in court.


 
Sorry Purple , couldn't resist.

You are of course quite right in that this site should be more about exchanging views and experiences rather than adopting an adversarial tone , something that I forget at times ! ( and will probably forget again )


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## Bigbird (9 Jul 2010)

I can only speak for teachers and the way they're recruited.  Sorry,  I presumed that they came under the public sector umbrella. One of my buddies works for social welfare office and said the recruitment process there is very above board and clear cut but she said that nursing and teaching was more about who you know than what you know.  I also have a cousin who works for the district court and she replied to a job advert and was recruited on merit. 

I am retracting the words "a lot" in that case.  Thanks for taking time out to read the post and spot the flaw.  It would annoy me intensely if I read someone making outrageous allegations without any substance whatsoever behind them!


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