# Insolvency stats for Q2 published



## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2014)

*[broken link removed]*



180 arrangement approved since launch of the ISI




110 Debt Relief Notices
38 DSAs
32 PIAs


----------



## Negotiator (18 Jul 2014)

Perhaps people will now start listening to David Hall @ IMHO....he's been banging on about it since day one.....the ISI in it's Current format is not fit for purpose....how much more evidence does everyone need. 32 PIAs is ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!

It's around long enough now to prove it's not working. Yeah yeah....I know there's more in the pipeline but it should a multiple of 100 where it's at right now.

To me the answer is blatantly obvious....reduce bankruptcy to 1 year and apply a more liberal income attachment order so there is a credible threat of bankruptcy for creditors. This in turn will force the banks to engage more meaningfully with distressed borrowers via the ISI. This is pretty much what happened in the UK when it was set up and subsequently tweaked. Why do we have to reinvent the wheel!....not to mention it's a far more complicated and costly process than our UK neighbours!


----------



## Bronte (18 Jul 2014)

Those figures are shameful.  Lorcan O' Connor should be more proactive in telling the media why they are so low and what needs to be done to fix it.  

I agree on the one year bankruptcy, the easing of the procedures,  the reduction of the time on income restrictions.


----------



## Steve Thatcher (18 Jul 2014)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Pathetic

Sorry, but how much is your sorry government paying O'Connor to preside over this utter shambles.

99.9% of your population cannot take the UK option and yet the State still provides no mechanism for relieving the debilitating crippling effect of crushing debt.
I am truly amazed you have all not risen and revolted. I feel from the bottom of my heart for your citizens, but nothing will change unless you as a class demand it and prove you will stop at nothing to get it. 
I still see people every week who have had enough and have moved heaven and earth to leave.

Steve


----------



## Branz (18 Jul 2014)

Bronte said:


> Those figures are shameful.  Lorcan O' Connor should be more proactive in telling the media why they are so low and what needs to be done to fix it.
> 
> I agree on the one year bankruptcy, the easing of the procedures,  the reduction of the time on income restrictions.


And address the fees!

In passing, is  a PIA = to bankruptcy?


----------



## Dr.Debt (18 Jul 2014)

Will someone please remind Lorcan O Connor that the initial anticipated volume of cases to be put through the ISI was 18000 per year.

I have some respect for LOC up until the point that he starts pretending to us that things are "going in the right direction" or "that we are experiencing a three fold increase" on the last quarter. Please give me a break Lorcan.This is nothing other than a colossal fiasco.

The ISI needs much stronger leadership. Someone with the credibility and the integrity to table much needed changes to the legislation and the energy to see it through. What we have at the moment is a shocking waste of taxpayers money and a process that is helping almost no one.


----------



## Negotiator (20 Jul 2014)

Dr.Debt said:


> I have some respect for LOC up until the point that he starts pretending to us that things are "going in the right direction" or "that we are experiencing a three fold increase" on the last quarter. Please give me a break Lorcan.This is nothing other than a colossal fiasco.



Totally agree....taking us all for a bunch of fools. Why is it so hard for some people to put their hand up in the air and say 'yes, we've made a mistake but we are going to fix it'......instead, all their energy is put into spin and saving face. 

18k ISI cases and 10k bankruptcy cases per year my hat.....who on earth is advising the government on all this, it's incredible!


----------



## Negotiator (20 Jul 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> Pathetic
> 
> ...



People probably would take to the streets Steve but they feel ashamed of their debt situation and most people keep their debt situation secret because it's still very taboo here.


----------



## Steve Thatcher (20 Jul 2014)

yes sorry i think you are right. Not quite sure what else to say. It's a broken record and one repeated on talk radio every day. I hope you sort it.
I will be ending my help by the year end as I move on to other UK projects. I wish you all well.

Steve


----------



## Jim Stafford (21 Jul 2014)

The Personal Insolvency Act 2012 is a very complicated piece of legislation, akin to a fine Swiss watch: a small grain of sand can bring it to a stop.  What we really needed was a robust piece of legislation akin to an AK47, one that was robust and easy to work with.

The UK system of Individual Voluntary Arrangements is a robust system and easy to work with (the UK IVA is their equivalent to the PIA). One of the reasons why the UK system of Individual Voluntary Arrangements work so well- over 50,000 IVA's a year, is that the UK creditors recognise that under a UK bankruptcy the maximum income payment they may get from debtors is just  3 years, compared with 5 years in Ireland.

Learning from the UK experience, it is clear that if the Income Payments Order in the Irish bankruptcy regime was changed from 5 years to 3 years, that banks would be much more receptive to a 5 year payment plan under a PIA. At the moment, Irish banks are not too fussed if someone self adjudicates for bankruptcy, particularly if they have a well paid job, as the Official Assignee will make an Income Payments Order for 5 years, and pay over the proceeds to the banks.

If the Government really wants to implement debt resolution, then they should amend the legislation to reduce the Income Payments Order in a bankruptcy to 3 years, instead of the current 5 years.

Having said the above, has the Personal Insolvency act 2012 been successful?  The establishment of the Reasonable Living Expenses guidelines have been a great success.  The days of arguing with banks whether debtors were allowed sports packages on their TV subscriptions are over etc.  Whilst the formal take up of the arrangements have been low, the fact of the matter is that the legislation has encouraged most of the banks to  agree informal arrangements and participate in debt forgiveness. Some PIPs are now doing up to 95% of their cases as informal cases, as they are more flexible etc.

Jim Stafford


----------



## Gerry Canning (21 Jul 2014)

In agreement with the posts;

I see Nama are even talking of (Debtor Fatigue) and are setting up ways to slow their Developers  going to Uk to go Bankrupt .
(Debtor Fatigue) surely must now be a real issue in mortgage arrears for the normal five-eights . 
If so ;a poor insolvency regime has become a problem not an asset?


----------



## 44brendan (21 Jul 2014)

> Having said the above, has the Personal Insolvency act 2012 been successful? The establishment of the Reasonable Living Expenses guidelines have been a great success. The days of arguing with banks whether debtors were allowed sports packages on their TV subscriptions are over etc. Whilst the formal take up of the arrangements have been low, the fact of the matter is that the legislation has encouraged most of the banks to agree informal arrangements and participate in debt forgiveness. Some PIPs are now doing up to 95% of their cases as informal cases, as they are more flexible etc.


Fair comment Jim! From a banking perspective it is preferable to complete deals that are outside of the formal insolvency system. Difficult to assess whether this is a positive or a negative. In my experience we are looking at completing a significant number of deals where a borrower is being open and co-operative. I.e. there is little to be gained by either the Bank or the debtor in going through the formal insolvency process where an acceptable solution can be reached outside of this process. most of the "residual debt" arrangements that are completed are based on a 3 year repayment timeframe. Obviously as these deals are informal they are not included in the insolvency statistics but they do result in a satisfactory conclusion for both parties and a moving on towards drawing a line on a debt within a reasonable timeframe.


----------



## suarez (21 Jul 2014)

We chose the UK system because of the one year discharge period from bankruptcy.  We felt that we had lost too much time already in vainly attempting to delay the inevitable.  'Debtor fatigue' is a euphemism.  We were suffering from 'debtor depression' - sleep disturbance, increased irritability, pronounced fear of the future, frustration, helplessness and hopelessness  etc.  The UK's insolvency service is an established service that is both  transparent and equitable.  It gives certainty to people who have usually been floundering in the dark for years.   It has given us the chance to start again and consequently our depressive symptoms have receded.  The Irish insolvency system will only become functional when the discharge period is reduced to 12 months and the IPO period is reduced to 3 years.


----------



## IB2013 (21 Jul 2014)

I fully agree with the points made above by Suarez. The Irish legislation is completely unfit for purpose and besides, the time taken to enact the legislation, coupled with the inevitable teething problems has led to many of us going to either the UK/ Scotland to avail of the 12 month bankruptcy discharge period. Had I waited for and undergone the Irish alternative, my time in Purgatory would be far far longer. Personally, I wanted to regain my life and option of bankrupting myself in Scotland has allowed me to do this.


----------



## Tobago (30 Oct 2014)

Looking for advice please. 

I owe about €25k unsecured debt between bank/ credit union credit card.

I also owe about 5k to the revenue sheriff, I've been paying 500 pm on that for over a year.

I suffer from depression and am unable to run my business properly, so I personally feel the best option is throwing in the towel.

I still have some stock to sell, which should generate 10k or so.

I ve stopped paying my main loan of 15k about 3 months and have received letters, I've recently stopped paying my other loans and will have to surrender my leased van.

I haven't had any income for a while, as everything goes on bills, we also recently went on interest only on our mortgage, my wife has an income of €370 per week,

Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## 44brendan (30 Oct 2014)

You should start a new thread for this query and complete the financial makeover section to get meaningful advice. Your details posted above are too vague.


----------

