# EBS Tracker for Site - Refused Tracker for top up for build.



## Thebadger20 (10 Jul 2020)

Hello All,

I’m not very good with forums so apologies if I posted this in the wrong place. I am looking for a small bit of advice please.

In 2006 I purchased a site. I opted for a tracker mortgage for this. In early 2008 I looked for the top up my mortgage to build. I was told that I was unable to top up my tracker and was forced to take out another mortgage on variable rate for the house. I am left with two mortgages for the one property. I did ask for a tracker on the top up and clearly remember receiving a phone call telling me we couldn’t get one and had to have two separate mortgages as they wouldn’t top up the tracker ( Site ) mortgage and I was unable to get a tracker on top up.


My question is, was this the norm back then? I really feel hard done by and have made attempts over the years to get clarity from EBS with no joy.

Hope someone can help with this.


----------



## tnegun (10 Jul 2020)

Sounds ok to me. EBS didn't have to give you a tracker or allow you top up just because you already had one and you could of gone to another lender who still offered them.


----------



## Thebadger20 (10 Jul 2020)

tnegun said:


> Sounds ok to me. EBS didn't have to give you a tracker or allow you top up just because you already had one and you could of gone to another lender who still offered them.


Thanks for taking the time to reply.  I don't believe that they stopped issuing truckers until October 2008 and this was prior to that.  Just seems unfair to me to end up with two mortgages. From taking with others also who bought a site and built it is not the norm.


----------



## Dpdp01050842 (10 Jul 2020)

Did mortgage 1 document state that you would also be funded for building the house on the site at a future undetermined point? If not, and I doubt it did, EBS did not have to offer a tracker on a second mortgage.


----------



## tnegun (10 Jul 2020)

You need to read the terms of the original mortgage to see if there is anything re allowing a top up tracker, without it I don't think there's much to go on.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (10 Jul 2020)

Dpdp01050842 said:


> Did mortgage 1 document state that you would also be funded for building the house on the site



Very good point, and that would be your only claim to a tracker. 

Unless a lender is contractually obliged to offer you a tracker, they have no obligation to do so.

If you were not happy with EBS, you could have gone to a different lender to get a tracker.

Brendan


----------



## Thebadger20 (10 Jul 2020)

tnegun said:


> You need to read the terms of the original mortgage to see if there is anything re allowing a top up tracker, without it I don't think there's much to go on.


Thank you very much, I will check original mortgage.


----------



## Thebadger20 (10 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Very good point, and that would be your only claim to a tracker.
> 
> Unless a lender is contractually obliged to offer you a tracker, they have no obligation to do so.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to reply, I know you are a busy man!!  We got a phone call about our site tracker two weeks ago as we were on the wrong rate and it got me thinking about this.  I know lots of people may jump on the bandwagon re: tracker but we did fill out the application form, requesting a tracker for the top up to build our home and received a phone call saying we couldn't have one. This was before EBS stopped offering them. I had a friend an actuary who advised me to get a tracker so I know what I wanted..  Sure that's life..

Thanks again!!


----------



## peemac (11 Jul 2020)

There's no such official product as a "Top-Up". It may be called that in conversations but the actual loan will be a totally new loan. They may make it a 23 year and 2 months loan to make the end of term the same as the original loan.  So any term, conditions, rates or special conditions of the initial loan do not automatically apply to any additional application, even for the same property


----------



## Thebadger20 (11 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Very good point, and that would be your only claim to a tracker.
> 
> Unless a lender is contractually obliged to offer you a tracker, they have no obligation to do so.
> 
> ...





peemac said:


> There's no such official product as a "Top-Up". It may be called that in conversations but the actual loan will be a totally new loan. They may make it a 23 year and 2 months loan to make the end of term the same as the original loan.  So any term, conditions, rates or special conditions of the initial loan do not automatically apply to any additional application, even for the same property


Thanks for the info, that may give piece of mind..


----------



## haveaniceday (11 Jul 2020)

the badger20 - I think you have a case if you can prove you filled out the tracker application form and submmited it  - and were refused one  - you need to ask why  - I would use this forum for research only - i would urge you to follow your instincts here not other peoples opinions on this - if you asked for a tracker and not given one you need to ask why - do a foi on all your info held with ebs(don't be surprised if lots s info is missing) - if you have a copy of the application form you filled out for the tracker and can prove you asked for one that would be gold - 2008 was the time ebs still had trackers available but were denying them to people.


----------



## Thebadger20 (13 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> the badger20 - I think you have a case if you can prove you filled out the tracker application form and submmited it  - and were refused one  - you need to ask why  - I would use this forum for research only - i would urge you to follow your instincts here not other peoples opinions on this - if you asked for a tracker and not given one you need to ask why - do a foi on all your info held with ebs(don't be surprised if lots s info is missing) - if you have a copy of the application form you filled out for the tracker and can prove you asked for one that would be gold - 2008 was the time ebs still had trackers available but were denying them to people.


Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply to my post.  I will take your advice on this.

I'll update if I get anywhere..


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> I think you have a case if you can prove you filled out the tracker application form and submitted it



And so anyone who applied for a loan and was refused should now be able to claim compensation because they have now discovered that the bank in question was making loans to people? 

An application is not a contract.  A bank can refuse an application or grant it on whatever terms it likes. 

If the borrower does not like the offere, they can go to a different lender.

Brendan


----------



## haveaniceday (13 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> And so anyone who applied for a loan and was refused should now be able to claim compensation because they have now discovered that the bank in question was making loans to people?
> 
> An application is not a contract.  A bank can refuse an application or grant it on whatever terms it likes.
> 
> ...


The Badger
- i asked for a tracker in 2008 - did not get one - had proof i asked - bank said sorry our mistake - got the tracker i had asked for (10 year later).

it would be also worth your while reading the extensive postings here on the EBS and the variable base rate that many people believe were tracker products.... until sometime in 2008 when it took on the characteristics of a  variable rate which allowed the banks increase the rate and no longer follow the ecb rate has it had done .....also note all the ebs contracts people have don't have any definition for what a variable base rate actually is... ?

also the badger fyi a friend has a case with ebs now - who says they were told in july 2008 tracker was not available anymore --- turns out they were available until august 2008
so maybe you have a case ... its definitely worth doing some digging to find out... why could your second mortgage not have been a tracker in 2008 if you asked for it?


----------



## Monbretia (14 Jul 2020)

Top ups were nearly always separate loans that ran alongside the original mortgage for same term if under a certain amount, around 65k.  Reason being that if they were done that way there was no need to go through full mtg legal work again and there was no legal costs.  They were also issued at whatever the rate was at the time of app/drawdown and nothing to do with what rate the original loan was on.

If the loan required was bigger than the limit the bank had for uncomplicated top ups then a whole new mortgage was needed amalgamating the amount with the old mortgage which again would be at rates of that time and not the original mortgage.

Tops ups were a quicker easier way of getting extra money when people ran out of money to finish house or to do home improvements, just because they were two separate loans doesn't mean they cost any extra money over the term as opposed to amalgamating them as you were never going to get the original rate/terms on the new loan anyway so could in fact cost you more to get an amalgamated loan.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> - i asked for a tracker in 2008 - did not get one - had proof i asked - bank said sorry our mistake - got the tracker i had asked for (10 year later).



With respect, I think you might be raising people's hopes here. 

Your story seems far more complicated. 





__





						EBS - EBS Tracker V’s Loan Ofer
					

Just spoke to somebody in EBS about Homeloan taken out in May 2008 stating that after the expiry of fixed rate the loan would revert to "Variable Base Rate". That is the SVR I would assume and not Tracker?  They said all mortgages are being reviewed but only those receiving redress will get...



					askaboutmoney.com
				




You appear to have been told at the time that you were on a tracker 

_following this re-issued loan offer being emailed to me i have an email from my broker as follows:

The ‘Tracker’ is a variable rate and is the best one available. The other variable rate option is 5.25%.


so as things went i had asked for and though i had been put on trackers for both mortgages.... but... it did not turn out that way

Brendan  _


----------



## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> why could your second mortgage not have been a tracker in 2008 if you asked for it?



It could have been.  They could have asked for a tracker with a margin of 0%. But if  the lender does not grant your request, you do not have a right to it.

Brendan


----------



## Dpdp01050842 (14 Jul 2020)

Sometimes very positive posts to people can build up people’s hopes and lead them to waste significant time and effort. There is no indicated the poster has any case here.


----------



## haveaniceday (14 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> With respect, I think you might be raising people's hopes here.
> 
> Your story seems far more complicated.
> 
> ...


I asked for a tracker - I had evidence of this - instead of being put on the tracker I had asked for I was put on a 'variable base rate'  - (and yes with a lot of research and effort on my part on my part i.e.  I could write a thesis on it at this point) -  I was finally put on the tracker I had originally asked for - this is what it came down to in the end and nothing else


----------



## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> this is what it came down to in the end and nothing else



That is not what you say in your earlier post. There was a broker involved who told you that you were on a tracker at the time. 

Can you not see how misleading it is to quote a small part of your experience? Others might think "Oh, I asked for it. They didn't give it to me. I didn't follow it up. haveanice day got it. So now I am entitled to it."


----------



## haveaniceday (14 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It could have been.  They could have asked for a tracker with a margin of 0%. But if  the lender does not grant your request, you do not have a right to it.
> 
> Brendan


so i have a fr


Brendan Burgess said:


> That is not what you say in your earlier post. There was a broker involved who told you that you were on a tracker at the time.
> 
> Can you not see how misleading it is to quote a small part of your experience? Others might think "Oh, I asked for it. They didn't give it to me. I didn't follow it up. haveanice day got it. So now I am entitled to it."


No Brendan that is incorrect what you are saying - the response from the bank in the end was very simple - you asked for it - we ( the bank) made a mistake - i asked for a tracker and i understood the variable base rate i got was a tracker - I spent 10+ years on a variable rate and the banks reply to me was only this ( in the end ) .. we ( the bank) made a mistake


----------



## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> i asked for a tracker and i understood the variable base rate i got was a tracker -



And that is no different from someone who asked for a tracker and was put on a variable rate that they knew was not a tracker.

I repeat. Your story is complex and it has limited application in other cases, and no relevance to the case under discussion.


Brendan


----------



## haveaniceday (14 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> And that is no different from someone who asked for a tracker and was put on a variable rate that they knew was not a tracker.
> 
> I repeat. Your story is complex and it has limited application in other cases, and no relevance to the case under discussion.
> 
> ...



and so why were they told they could not have a tracker - that is the question that needs to be asked ?


----------



## peemac (14 Jul 2020)

haveaniceday said:


> so i have a fr
> 
> No Brendan that is incorrect what you are saying - the response from the bank in the end was very simple - you asked for it - we ( the bank) made a mistake - i asked for a tracker and i understood the variable base rate i got was a tracker - I spent 10+ years on a variable rate and the banks reply to me was only this ( in the end ) .. we ( the bank) made a mistake


The way I read your situation is that you applied for a mortgage via a broker, your broker got approval for you with various opinions including a tracker. You selected the tracker and you can show you did that but for some reason either the broker or ebs made an error.

However as a tracker was offered to you and you can show that you wanted to accept that, you were eventually given it. 

The op was never offered a tracker, so case is very different to yours.


----------

