# Civil Service overseas subsistence rates



## zag

Does anyone have a list of the civil service overseas subsistence rates ?

According to many documents on the web they are freely available by ringing your regional revenue office, but after being transferred about 4 times I ended up with someone in Finance who couldn't help me.

I am going to get back on to Revenue shortly and try again, but I think last time I tried to get this information I gave up after being passed on loads of times without ever getting to anyone who knew what I was talking about.

I would understand this if there weren't many Revenue & other departmental documents out there saying this information is available by ringing your regional Revenue office.

Please help.

z


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## ajapale

Hi Zag,

Have you tried ringing one of the public service unions? I suggest [broken link removed] might be the best. 

IMPACT Head Office
Nerney's Court
Dublin 1
*Tel: 01-8171500* Fax: 01-8171501/2/3

I've tried Impacts web site and this is all I got:


> Overseas subsistence rates are set separately (from domestic rates) and take account of costs in the country where business is being conducted.



I get the feeling that beccuse of cost and currency variations there might be an element of ad hocery about the approach to overseas travel and subsistence rates.

ajapale


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## mts

Zag, too big to post, I can email them if you like.


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## zag

mts - thanks, I have sent you a PM, please post back here if you don't get the PM.

z


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## zag

I got the detail from mts (thanks very much), but can anyone clarify the difference between 'conference rate' and 'day rate' please ?

Thanks,

z


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## mts

www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=919

(a) Short-term stays abroad

Foreign subsistence is paid in respect of official travel abroad within specified time periods. Officers are paid at either the overnight rate (covering primarily the cost of hotel accommodation and meals) or conference rate (where the cost of accommodation is recouped on a vouched basis and a residual amount is paid to cover, primarily, the cost of meals). Conference rate does not apply where the journey abroad is for the purpose of the following:

(a) attending a training course;

(b) a familiarisation visit;

(c) fact finding or otherwise securing information;

(d) attending a seminar or meeting held solely to exchange information.

Hope this helps!


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## zag

mts - thanks again for that.

I still don't see where the day rate comes into things - is it the case that the day rate applies where no hotel is booked ?

For example - on a 2 day trip the first day would be at the conference rate (plus the vouched hotel expenses) and on the second day (when returning home that evening) the day rate would be used ?

Cheers,

z


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## patspost

Generally the conference rate is used for going somewhere that is very expensive e.g. the UK, where basically your accomodation, breakfast, lunch and dinner can all be paid for if you have reciepts.
For most places you are better claiming the seperate night and day rates rather than the conference rate.


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## podgerodge

On the subject of subsistence, is there anything wrong, morally or legally, with paying different Grades different subsistence allowances.  I presume the purpose of this allowance is for being "kept alive".  Should I on a higher grade enjoy better food then my lower grade counterpart accompanying me on a business trip? Or should I on a lower grade salivate at my boss's caviar?


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## mts

If you are normally entitled to a lower rate and travelling with a person entitled to the higher rate you are also entitled to the higher rate.


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## wheeler

Hi MTS - can you also send me the list if you have it for 2010?

Thanks.


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## csirl

patspost said:


> Generally the conference rate is used for going somewhere that is very expensive e.g. the UK, where basically your accomodation, breakfast, lunch and dinner can all be paid for if you have reciepts.
> For most places you are better claiming the seperate night and day rates rather than the conference rate.


 

Conference rate applied where your accommodation is paid for (e.g. included in the cost of attending a conference), but you still have to pay for your 3 meals a day. It is essentially a 3-meal rate. It is also used in some places where accommodation is expensive whereby you can claim vouched accommodation plus conference rate. Meals are not vouched as they are covered by the conference rate.

The overnight rate covers an entire 24 hour period and includes accommodation and 3 meals. You cannot claim days rates in addition to it. 

As a general rule, you cannot pick and chose what way to mix and match the rates.


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## Allen

zag said:


> mts - thanks again for that.
> 
> I still don't see where the day rate comes into things - is it the case that the day rate applies where no hotel is booked ?
> 
> For example - on a 2 day trip the first day would be at the conference rate (plus the vouched hotel expenses) and on the second day (when returning home that evening) the day rate would be used ?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> z


 
If you are away 28 hours 59 minutes you claim just the overnight rate, if away 29 hours and 1 minute then you claim the overnight plus the 5 hour day rate. (Substitute conference rate (plus the vouched hotel expenses) for overnight rate as appropriate.)


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## alikelystory

Hope ye don't mind my  first post is asking for help - MTS I have a similar query in terms of different rates for foreign countries (London UK is what I am after). I rang the revenue and they told me after much transferring back and forth that it was "likely" (?) 118.63 (sterling) overnight, 39.54 sterling for 10 hours and 19.77 sterling for five hours. Can anyone confirm this or provide a resource to the listed rates? I have searched the revenue site in vain.
 Many thanks!

Also I would private message but don't think I can do that yet. Thanks.


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## Berni

Full list is here, Dept of Finance deal with it, not Revenue 
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/2010/foreignsubjan2010.pdf

BRITAIN & NTH London     Sterling 169.22  56.41 28.20
BRITAIN & NTH Elsewhere Sterling 118.63  39.54 19.77


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## alikelystory

Legend Berni! Had this set up to alert me to replies but did not get one for some reason. Thanks! Was about to ring Revenue again in frustration. Big difference between the meagre 118 pounds sterling the reveue told me for London and the 160 stated in that document!


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## jfenn99

Hi I was just wondering could anyone help me out, if a company provides a credit card to an employee to cover expenses such as meals whilst abroad, can that employee claim any subsistence using the conference rate?


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## Complainer

jfenn99 said:


> Hi I was just wondering could anyone help me out, if a company provides a credit card to an employee to cover expenses such as meals whilst abroad, can that employee claim any subsistence using the conference rate?


You'd probably have to check your own company policies to be sure, but in general, it would be an either/or situation. Either you get the cost of your meals paid for based on receipts or a company credit card, or you get a fixed subsistence amount. You wouldn't usually get both.


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## jfenn99

Thanks for that, much appreciated, what if the company wanted to maximise what they could give the employee? Could they pay for the meals and still give the maximum conference subsistence rate?


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## Complainer

jfenn99 said:


> Thanks for that, much appreciated, what if the company wanted to maximise what they could give the employee? Could they pay for the meals and still give the maximum conference subsistence rate?


I presume this is really a tax question. The company can give as much as they like, but if what they give is not wholly and exclusively to cover costs involved in doing business, then there will be a BIK tax liability for the employee.


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## csirl

jfenn99 said:


> Thanks for that, much appreciated, what if the company wanted to maximise what they could give the employee? Could they pay for the meals and still give the maximum conference subsistence rate?


 
No, if they pay for the meals, you are not entitled to claim any conference rate. Anything paid to you above what you are entitled to claim (if anything) is regarded as taxable pay ala your salary.


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## clonjess

how many days can this subsistence rate be claimed for? Could it be for 5 days per week for 6 months??


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