# To tip or not to tip, that is the question...



## StaroftheSea (29 Jan 2011)

Hi all,

I recently got shot down for suggesting that it's ridiculous to tip each and every time one goes to a restaurant.  My point of view is:

We are not a tipping nation. Never have been.  Granted we have always been influenced by american culture but nonetheless the last generation did not expect tips, so why should the current generation? If one wants  to be tipped then go to a country where tips are the norm.

I am not against tipping for exceptional service or food or indeed if one's just in a tipping mood. But tipping as standard gives the wrong impression.  Tipping should be the exception rather than the rule in this country.  

Until now I would have tipped most of the time, and would have felt obliged to and a little embarrassed if I didn't - even if I wasn't impressed with the service or it was simply adequate.  Now I'm wondering why I felt like that. This is Ireland. Print your price and don't expect a tip.

Just wondering where you all stand on this?!

Thanks.


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## thesimpsons (29 Jan 2011)

Isn't the american tipping culture to make up for low wages, whereas here we now have a minimum wage.

I usually reserve tipping for good and better than expected service.  If waiter/ess chats, smiles, is particularly helpful, remembers the orders, etc,  then tip is left.  If food is virtually slopped down, no attempt at helping, no memory of who ordered what, forgets an item from the order - then no tip.  

daughter waitresses and always telling her to be helpful and to earn her tips - saying that, she isn't badly paid but tips are nice little extra.  She earns over the minimum adult wage and is still only under 18 herself, so fairly well paid IMO.


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## Lex Foutish (29 Jan 2011)

I usually tip about 10% but, in the last few years, I deduct the cost of the wine before doing my calculation. In other words, I just tip on the food part of the bill.


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## micmclo (29 Jan 2011)

If there is a service charge then I don't tip.
Though I know well that charge is going into an account to run the restaurant, it doesn't go directly to staff.

If there is no service charge, possibly tip if the service is good.

I'm terrible at complaining though 
Usually say nothing, sit there fuming,  and then blast the place to every friend, work colleague or family I get talking to.
I'm not alone in Ireland who do this!


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## Lex Foutish (29 Jan 2011)

micmclo said:


> If there is a service charge then I don't tip.
> Though I know well that charge is going into an account to run the restaurant, it doesn't go directly to staff.
> 
> If there is no service charge, possibly tip if the service is good.
> ...


 
Yeah, you're a pure, typical Paddy!!! 

I never tip if there's a service charge either. I expect nobody does.

Our neighbour's daughter worked as a waitress in a suburban Chinese Restaurant in Cork for a few years and she told me that every single penny left in tips was divided amongst the waitresses each night. It actually encouraged me to keep going there.


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## di74 (29 Jan 2011)

I agree if there is a service charge I don't tip. I waitressed in America and 15-20% is the norm but you only get $2 per hour for working so you make your money from tips.


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## lou2 (29 Jan 2011)

I recently had a meal with 3 friends where the service was absolutely terrible. We were all giving out about the service during the meal and I also complained to the waitress in a very nice way. However, when the bill came I was on my own when I suggested that we shouldn't give a tip. The other 3 thought that that would just be mean. I think we need to change our mindset. I am more than happy to pay for good service (it doesn't have to be exceptional, just good)...but I refuse to pay for bad service anymore.


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## Caveat (29 Jan 2011)

I tip when everything is above and beyond - the food, service, ambience etc.

Otherwise I don't. If everything is just 'fine' then no - why tip for no real reason?

I used to tip routinely (unless there were real problems) but I grew out of that. 

As for service charges? 

I simply won't eat there - within reason.



			
				micmclo said:
			
		

> Usually say nothing, sit there fuming,  and then blast the place to every friend, work colleague or family I get talking to.



In fairness, this approach probably does them much more harm in the long run so you have your victory!

I love complaining now that it's a relatively new found activity - there's a way to do it though.  Don't be apologetic as it just defeats the purpose  - be firm, calm and polite but to the point. 

It's very liberating.


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## SlugBreath (30 Jan 2011)

I couldn't understand when on a holiday with The Travel Department outside Boston everybody was complaining about the poor rep who was with us for a week as we toured around. These self same people then all tipped her at the end of the tour after bitching about her non stop? Some people are terrible cowards.


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## ali (30 Jan 2011)

I work in a restaurant and depend on tips. Tips have declined substantially in the last year particularly. In general the same people tip as always did, but to a lesser amount and I would estimate that 75% of our patrons tip. I have always tipped even prior to working in a restaurant at a rate of approximately 10%. I would not tip if service was genuinely bad but I have previously tipped even if the food wasn't great if I found the service to have been decent. 

It never fails to amaze me how some people can run up a bill for €300 or €400 euro and not feel the need to throw the waitress a fiver. It's just plain mean. To be fair most Irish people are good like this and we always break our necks for our customers. We are always busy and the averages work out in terms of our tips. 

We charge service on tables larger than 8 and this service goes straight into the tip bowl there and then and is divided between the wait staff on that night. 10% goes to the kitchen and is divided equally between them all from head chef down to the kitchen porters. If service charge is applied to a bill, we always bypass the optional gratuity button on the credit card machine but about 25% of the time the customer will add a tip. We draw their attention to the fact that they are already paying service and that we get it and still about half of those still leave the extra. 

A.


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## micmclo (30 Jan 2011)

ali said:


> We charge service on tables larger that 8



In the restaurant business you give somewhere a lot of custom and they charge you more, not less

Any other business it would be the other way around


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## WaterWater (30 Jan 2011)

I was in Captain A's today. We were served by one waitress but another waitress gave us our bill. I noticed that the waitress who gave us our bill had her name on the bill, not the waitress that served us. We left a tip but I wonder who ended up getting it because at the cashdesk there is a section where all the waitresses names are and little bundles of coins beside each name.


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## roker (30 Jan 2011)

America has gone overboard. Even a barman/lady get a tip for just handing you a drink. I was in an Irish bar in Califonia and did not tip because I thought barmen did not get tips, until I was told diffferently. Well if they call it an Irish bar why would they expect tips?


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## truthseeker (31 Jan 2011)

Its so expensive to eat out in Ireland that I find myself more and more often just leaving a tiny tip just because 10-15% of the bill is so dear!!!

I do tend to tip in general though unless the service or food (or something else) has been abysmal. I waitressed myself (in the US mind you where I depended on my tips), and have never lost the habit.

Do people just tip in restaurants? I tip taxi drivers (unless they are complete eejits), and in the hairdressers as well.


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## Protocol (31 Jan 2011)

roker said:


> America has gone overboard. Even a barman/lady get a tip for just handing you a drink. I was in an Irish bar in Califonia and did not tip because I thought barmen did not get tips, until I was told diffferently. Well if they call it an Irish bar why would they expect tips?


 
You have to tip in all bars in the USA.

How much??  I'm not sure.  A dollar a drink or per round??


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## Protocol (31 Jan 2011)

micmclo said:


> In the restaurant business you give somewhere a lot of custom and they charge you more, not less
> 
> Any other business it would be the other way around


 
Yes, I too am curious as to why service charges are applied to groups above 6 or 8 people??


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## micmclo (31 Jan 2011)

truthseeker said:


> I waitressed myself (in the US mind you where I depended on my tips), and have never lost the habit.



Maybe you can answer this, I've never been to the US so maybe you know
But when I worked in Irish hotels the very odd time an American tourist would leave a 1cent coin on the table

I was told it was meant as an insult and statement to the staff there.
Leaving a small Candian coin in an USA restaurant was the same thing also.
True or urban myth?

I found a few 1cent coins in Irish hotels, was I useless? 

Anyway, I tend to tip in the barbers mostly as the staff are legends and we have great chats. Plus they are on terrible money considering the apprenticeships they do.
Taxi drivers? You're having a laugh!


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## truthseeker (31 Jan 2011)

micmclo said:


> But when I worked in Irish hotels the very odd time an American tourist would leave a 1cent coin on the table


 
My understanding of waitressing in the US was that, yes, a 1 cent type of tip was a signal that they were very unhappy with the service. Its the fact that they bothered with the tip at all. No tip could mean they didnt like the service, they had no change, they forgot, they dont tend to tip, theyre tight etc... But a 1 cent means theyre making a point.

Cant say I ever experienced it myself, I either got tipped normally or on rare occasions got tipped brilliantly, or on rare occasions had the diner skip out without even paying the bill - let alone the tip!!


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## Caveat (31 Jan 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Do people just tip in restaurants? I tip taxi drivers (unless they are complete eejits), and in the hairdressers as well.


 
Same principle for me anyway - tip the odd taxi driver  - if he has gone out of his way. If he is just doing his job then no, never.

As for hairdressers, being er...follically challenged...I do not find myself in this position but herself always tips. 

I would regard this as different though as often hairdressers *do* go out of their way - it's the nature of what they do, getting it just right, trying to figure out "you know, like the one Posh had before the one before she has now - now definitely *not* the really wierd one - *don't* give me that one whatever you do..." 

etc


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## callybags (31 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> Same principle for me anyway - tip the odd taxi driver - *if he has gone out of his way*. If he is just doing his job then no, never.


 
I tend to report these to the regulator


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## Caveat (31 Jan 2011)

callybags said:


> I tend to report these to the regulator


 
LOL - can't believe I didn't notice that!


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## ali (1 Feb 2011)

Caveat said:


> Same principle for me anyway - tip the odd taxi driver - if he has gone out of his way. If he is just doing his job then no, never.
> 
> As for hairdressers, being er...follically challenged...I do not find myself in this position but herself always tips.
> 
> ...


 

I tip taxi drivers and hairdressers too. It's a well recognised phenomenon with women that they tip their hairdressers even when they're leaving in a cloud of repressed tears and curses. Don't know why but it's very common.


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## ali (1 Feb 2011)

Protocol said:


> Yes, I too am curious as to why service charges are applied to groups above 6 or 8 people??


 

I can't tell you if this is the management's reason for service on large parties but this is the practical result for us wait staff:

Larger tables result in more work. Larger groups generally tend to stay much longer so you may not be able to turn the table over twice during the evening. They take up more space in the restaurant; therefore a table of twelve people means you are not serving 6 tables of 2. If you had 6 small tables you could receive a tip of €5 on average for example from each table. However if a service charge is not applied the large table might just leave €10 even though their bill came to €300 or in some cases, nothing at all. 

Tips are discretionary, but the fact of the matter is that most wait staff are not well paid and tips are how they make their living. Service charge policies should always be well advertised and be prominently displayed on the menu and the restaurant's web site. It is obviously your right to refuse to pay the service charge if you have been unhappy with the service but if that's not the case and it's clear up front that service charge is applied then IMO, it should be viewed as part of the cost of the dining experience. 

A.


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## Staples (1 Feb 2011)

ali said:


> I If you had 6 small tables you could receive a tip of €5 on average for example from each table. However if a service charge is not applied the large table might just leave €10 even though their bill came to €300 or in some cases, nothing at all.


 
Ali

How much would you normally get (or expect to get) as a tip for a meal of say €100 (including wine, water, etc)?


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## ali (1 Feb 2011)

Staples said:


> Ali
> 
> How much would you normally get (or expect to get) as a tip for a meal of say €100 (including wine, water, etc)?


 

Impossible to say. The rule of thumb is to tip 10%. However, we would often get the change from a bill of €96.70 (i.e. €3.30) when €100 was proffered and then a tenner off a bill of €30. In general when calculating tips people leave approximately 10% and I have never seen a customer deducting the wine cost before calculating the tip. (That doesn't mean they don't in their head).

As some people - no more than a quarter I would say - leave nothing and others are very generous, it averages out at 10%.

For example on a busy Sunday from 12 to 8.30, the restaurant might take €4,800 on food. The tip bowl will generally contain €450 to €500. 10% is taken off the top for the kitchen and the remainder will be split pro rata according to hours worked between the wait staff. 

Additionally, if it's a busy midweek night and you're rushed off your feet, we would give the bar staff or lounge staff a tenner or fifteen quid if they dug in and gave you a hand. 

I don't know how representative my place of work is and I should say that we get an awful lot of repeat business so that may well influence the level and frequency of tips.

However I disagree with the OP that tipping in Ireland is a new phenomenon. I clearly remember as a kid that my father would always tip in a restaurant (at a rate of 12.5%) - rather exact!

A.


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## Staples (1 Feb 2011)

That's interesting, thanks.


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## Sol28 (1 Feb 2011)

lou2 said:


> I recently had a meal with 3 friends where the service was absolutely terrible. We were all giving out about the service during the meal and I also complained to the waitress in a very nice way. However, when the bill came I was on my own when I suggested that we shouldn't give a tip. The other 3 thought that that would just be mean. I think we need to change our mindset. I am more than happy to pay for good service (it doesn't have to be exceptional, just good)...but I refuse to pay for bad service anymore.


 
Really bugs me when friends still insist on tipping even when they walk out unsatisfied. "But its for the staff", I insist on tipping only if I walk out of the place happy with the overall evening, food and service.

Why should some services expect tips - but other (possibly lower paid roles) get nothing!


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## Newbie! (1 Feb 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Its so expensive to eat out in Ireland that I find myself more and more often just leaving a tiny tip just because 10-15% of the bill is so dear!!!
> 
> I do tend to tip in general though unless the service or food (or something else) has been abysmal. I waitressed myself (in the US mind you where I depended on my tips), and have never lost the habit.
> 
> Do people just tip in restaurants? I tip taxi drivers (unless they are complete eejits), and in the hairdressers as well.


 
BUT in america, if you have 2 or more drinks in a bar, they tend to throw the next round in for free and this continues as the night goes on. You buy two, they buy one.....


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## ali (1 Feb 2011)

Just as an aside: Our lounge staff don't get tipped like they used to . They report that young people don't tip full stop. One lounge girl got 15 quid during an 8 hour shift on New Years Eve. Unheard of. Older people especially men tend to tip in the restaurant and in the pub. 

Women who used to get a bad press for not tipping actually do tip in general but tend to be more exact (10% to the penny) and don't really throw an extra few quid but men, especially older men do. Having said that; if I had a quid for the number of men who look up from the menu and say "How much for you?", I'd be loaded. I usually just answer the 'pat' "you couldn't afford it" but f.f.s.! Some men really don't get that that's not a compliment.

A.


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## truthseeker (2 Feb 2011)

Newbie! said:


> BUT in america, if you have 2 or more drinks in a bar, they tend to throw the next round in for free and this continues as the night goes on. You buy two, they buy one.....


 
Thats never happened me in any bar in america.


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## Caveat (2 Feb 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Thats never happened me in any bar in america.


 
Happened to me all the time. In fact I think the norm is that every fourth round is free - that's what I experienced anyway.

A policy obviously not costed with respect to Irish drinking habits


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## thedaras (3 Feb 2011)

As a matter of interest ,how much do you/ would you tip the hairdresser?
For example its about 23e for a wash and blow dry,the same person washs and does the blow dry..I give a fiver..is that too much?


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## ali (3 Feb 2011)

thedaras said:


> As a matter of interest ,how much do you/ would you tip the hairdresser?
> For example its about 23e for a wash and blow dry,the same person washs and does the blow dry..I give a fiver..is that too much?


 
I give a fiver each time whether it's for a blow dry  or for a colour as I'm a regular customer and they get it every week. My sister who is a more sporadic customer gives €5 for a blowdry and €10 for a colour. 
My hairdresser did a wedding party last week. There was the bride, three bridesmaids, mother of the bride, mother of the groom and two flower girls. Took 3 hairdressers 3 hours in total and the party left a tip of €2.70 .

A.


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## truthseeker (3 Feb 2011)

Caveat said:


> Happened to me all the time. In fact I think the norm is that every fourth round is free - that's what I experienced anyway.
> 
> A policy obviously not costed with respect to Irish drinking habits


 
hmmm...either I never got as far as the 4th round (unlikely as I lived there for 3 years as a 21 year old so far more likely I got to the 14th!!), OR I was drinking in young busy venues where it was a case of standing with your drink and battling your way to the bar - so it would have been impractical.


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## Staples (3 Feb 2011)

thedaras said:


> As a matter of interest ,how much do you/ would you tip the hairdresser?


 
A lot less since she got the restraining order.


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## ice (3 Feb 2011)

I don't see why certain professions are worthy of a tip and others aren't.

Surely those working in retail and other lower paid jobs are on a similar wage to those waitressing in restaurants. 

Why should certian professions get tips and not others.

People have said that hairdressers dicuss your hair with you and try to find the perfect cut. Waitresses are busy with large tables etc.

Surely this is part of the job that they are paid for and its not the responsibility of the customer to bump up their wages.


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## Caveat (3 Feb 2011)

ice said:


> People have said that hairdressers dicuss your hair with you and try to find the perfect cut.


 
Yes but I would argue that this is sort of over and above what they are supposed to do. Really it should be "give me X cut", thanks, goodbye but it never is.



> Waitresses are busy with large tables etc.


 
But that *is* their job - most definitely.

To be comparable with the hairdresser example they would need to give you something that's not on the menu with no fuss, have it changed maybe etc etc.

They should probably get a tip for that IMO.


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## ice (3 Feb 2011)

I suppose it depends on the price for a haircut ! I pay 65 euro so would expect more than give me x cut for that price.


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## PyritePete (4 Feb 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Thats never happened me in any bar in america.


 
yeah I have been the recipient of what was termed " buy-back" round or something like this - the 4th round was on the house. In NYC...


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## ali (4 Feb 2011)

ice said:


> I don't see why certain professions are worthy of a tip and others aren't.
> 
> Surely those working in retail and other lower paid jobs are on a similar wage to those waitressing in restaurants.
> 
> ...


 

I don't have a definitive answer, just that it has always been traditional to tip some "professions" over others. It's always been the way and that has probably shaped the way restaurants / hairdressers / taxis price their business; because they know there is a secondary price/ income. I'm personally glad of it but I do often think of kp's / cleaners etc. and think: they are on rubbish money too but they don't get the extra few bob. 

A.


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## shootingstar (7 Feb 2011)

I dont tip at all... I expect good service, good food, hense why I have chosen said restaurant on my saturday night out. My OH always answers the staff honestly when they ask him "was everything ok"?


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## liaconn (9 Feb 2011)

I have to say, now that money is much tighter than it used to be, I am starting to resent having to leave a 10 -15% tip. I hardly ever eat out anymore and, when I do, it's usually an early bird and I have to factor it in to my budget.

Likewise, I'm beginning to resent having to tip hairdressers and taxi drivers. No one gives me a tip


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## DB74 (9 Feb 2011)

liaconn said:


> No one gives me a tip


 
Never run with scissors.


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## ali (9 Feb 2011)

DB74 said:


> Never run with scissors.


 
Be good to your mother


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## Marion (9 Feb 2011)

I do not tip hairdressers or taxi drivers in Ireland. 

I used to tip hairdressers a number of years ago until they regaled me with their tales of building 5-bedroomed houses overlooking lakes and taking exotic holidays!

I don't tip taxi drivers. By their own account, they owned huge properties in Bulgaria or Poland.

I would have felt very awkward leaving a tip to such wealthy people. 

Marion


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## AgathaC (12 Feb 2011)

I tip the hairdresser if I am happy with the service. I dont get taxis very often but it never even crossed my mind to tip taxi drivers...


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