# Relative (in-law) came into my home & I discovered that they had a dictaphone?



## dubinamerica (12 Apr 2010)

I've recently had the unpleasant experience of a relative (in-law) coming into my home and discovered that they had a dictaphone. 

I believe that they were attempting to capture something negative on it to somehow try and use against me in any potential issue with access/custody. In fact all they would have heard was a number of children playing happily together.

The whole event has left me disgusted and concerned as it involves some v. young children.

What are my rights on this ? Is it illegal ? frowned upon? 

I will be contacting my solicitor in relation to this but wondering what people thought.


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## dacoon (13 Apr 2010)

Hi dubinamerica,

As far  as I know it is illegal, however your solicitor would be better placed to advise you than me. You could ring  the Data Protection Commissioner's office to see if they have a view on this type of thing.

Good Luck

Da


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## davidoco (13 Apr 2010)

It would have been handier for the accused to use the recorder on their phone!


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## dubinamerica (14 Apr 2010)

I'll run it by my solicitor when I see him, prob this week. The dictaphone was seen by a number of people in the household and it seems that one of the children got their hands on it and the person then proceeded to start looking for it.. of course they couldn't tell us what they were looking for and ended up leaving the house but the dictaphone stayed behind.. you couldn't write this stuff to be honest !! Does anyone know if these type of recordings could be used in any way in family law cases or such like? I haven't confronted them about their intentions.. and yes the phone would have been much more discreet and probably would have gone unnoticed!


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## Setanta12 (14 Apr 2010)

How about passing the dictaphone to your solicitor for safekeeping stating that you believe you were being surreptitiously taped without your knowledge, but that -  at this stage - you reserve your rights in doing anything about it.

Then, should there be any future proceedings involving taped conversations being used against you, your solicitor would produce the dictaphone left with you with the inference to be drawn that your in-law routinely taped conversations to entrap you (thereby undermining their evidence against you).

I'm also sure that their fingerprints could be produced from this dictaphone - and the subtlest of hints about that could work wonders in your favour with them!


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## carrielou (14 Apr 2010)

As far as I know, anything along the lines of recordings, be it face to face or over the phone, are not permissible in court


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## gillarosa (14 Apr 2010)

carrielou said:


> As far as I know, anything along the lines of recordings, be it face to face or over the phone, are not permissible in court


 
I agree with Carrielou, but your issue may not be the legality or illegality of the possible taping. I think there are larger issues from reading your earlier posts; family, mental instability, guardianship are issues of law but moreso are issues which deeply affect all the people involved. Sometimes you have shrug off the actions of members of your non-nuclear family, you have enough on your plate and these things can only affect you if you let them.


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## dubinamerica (15 Apr 2010)

I have concerns on a number of levels - firstly I just find it very disturbing that a relative would do this esp with young children involved. 
I am also concerned as the family are starting to say things indicating that I am not myself, that I must have post-natal depression and I am not taking good care of the children. The same relative was trying to capture me on camcorder and camera and I think he was trying to show either that I am despondent, so unfit, or that I was intheir house when my husband was there, and possibly use this in some way in court. 
Can any of this stuff be used in family court or with social workers ? I find it very stressful on top of an already stressful situation, but in fairness I have to admit it also raised quite a few smiles thinking of when he went searching through our house, when he realized it was missing !! priceless : )


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## Bronco Lane (15 Apr 2010)

dubinamerica said:


> or that I was in their house when my husband was there,


 
Are you not allowed to be together?  Is there some sort of a barring order?


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## dubinamerica (16 Apr 2010)

I have a court date set for a barring order but am still trying to accomodate contact between the children and my husband outside of our home, so brought them to where he is living now. I think that relative was attempting to photgraph me in the house to show that I was there at the same time as my husband and probably plans on using this in some way in relation to barring order hearing or potential other issues. Does anyone know if photos, video would be looked at in a family court setting? What about text messages? All the video would show is me sitting in the house, keeping my distance. 
Mind you even with all this, I cannot help but laugh whenever I think of the panic that ensued when the relative realized the dictaphone was gone.. And of course couldn't ask any of us had we seen it as how the hell do you mention something like that ? classic..


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## mathepac (16 Apr 2010)

A few things to be aware of :


 Family law cases (safety or  barring orders, separation / divorce proceedings, maintenance  applications, etc.) are heard _in camera_. Generally only the  judge, the clerk of the court, the two parties concerned and their legal  representatives are present
 The judge decides what evidence  s/he wants to hear  in support of any application before the court and  will decide what witnesses (if any) will be called and heard
   I'm not sure what discussions you have had with your solicitor, but if  you have an application before the courts for a safety / barring order  (you usually get an interim safety order first), it is not a good idea  to be in the company of the person against whom you want the order made,  for any reason, unless 


the meeting is in a public place *and*
you are  accompanied and observed by an adult.
Otherwise, the judge may  reasonably take the view that your application is frivolous or that the  person against whom you want the order made is not a threat to your  safety. A lot can depend on what other evidence you can produce (medical  records, x-rays, Gardai, PULSE incident reports, etc.)

Recordings, phone records, text messages, etc, particularly those taken  without consent, will  IME generally not be admitted in evidence in  Irish family law courts, despite what private investigators may tell  you. They may be useful bargaining tools outside court, but judges, not  lawyers and certainly not PIs, decide what evidence they will see  in  court.

I haven't seen your other posts about this matter, so I'm not sure if all of this has been covered  already.


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## Bronco Lane (16 Apr 2010)

How did your in law hide the dictaphone in your house? Was it behind a chair or something?  Did you leave them alone in the room?
What do you think they were trying to find out by leaving the dictaphone?  I am not trying to make you paranoid or anything but I had the experience of a private detective gathering information some years ago. Keep an eye out for unusual cars parked near your home etc.
It is a horrible feeling and very unpleasant to know that someone is watching/following you.


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## MrMan (16 Apr 2010)

Have you listened to the recording? Is there any? It is not against the law to be in possession of a dictaphone, and if he was so careless with it it doesn't sound like he was trying to conceal it.


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## gillarosa (16 Apr 2010)

dubinamerica said:


> I have a court date set for a barring order but am still trying to accomodate contact between the children and my husband outside of our home, so brought them to where he is living now. I think that relative was attempting to photgraph me in the house to show that I was there at the same time as my husband and probably plans on using this in some way in relation to barring order hearing or potential other issues. Does anyone know if photos, video would be looked at in a family court setting? What about text messages? All the video would show is me sitting in the house, keeping my distance.
> Mind you even with all this, I cannot help but laugh whenever I think of the panic that ensued when the relative realized the dictaphone was gone.. And of course couldn't ask any of us had we seen it as how the hell do you mention something like that ? classic..


 
My initial understanding is that a person came to your home and may have used a dictaphone to record you but left it behind, this posting states  you were in the home of your ex partner and being filmed by the same third party? Its a little confusing.


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## dubinamerica (16 Apr 2010)

The issue with the dictaphone happened in my own home - the person had concealed it in their pocket, and when it went missing, he began to search for it, but told us he was searching for something else. He did not capture anything on it but I suspect he may have been trying to record all the family or possibly just one of the children saying something, but we did not give him a chance to be on his own with this child. 
The other event with the video camera/ digital camera was at relatives home, where I brought the children to visit their father. I am not willing to leave children unsupervised and not willing to have husband in our own home, so I had to stay. I did not interact with husband, but I feel that his father was trying to get photos of me to show that I was there when he was . There were other people around at all times, so I hope that this does not jeopardize the barring order. I would not be going to the house with the children unless there were other people present. 
I'm concerned now from reading above that a judge could potentially allow this type of 'evidence'. Maybe I should get a PI.. they may have a more subtle recording device than a honky dictaphone .. however bad things are, that still makes me laugh..


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## SlurrySlump (17 Apr 2010)

I'm confused. How could a dictaphone go missing from someones pocket. Was he trying to switch it on or something? Did he not notice it falling out of his pocket?  Where did you find it?


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## postman pat (18 Apr 2010)

sounds like a load of "who shot john" as judge judy wold say


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## dubinamerica (18 Apr 2010)

To be honest the whole thing is really unnerving. If it was a standalone incident then it would be one thing, but it's wrapped up in other events. My husband threatened to kill himself and also me and has not been in the home for a number of weeks. As I have concerns regarding the kids safety, husband and his family are not happy about access. They have started saying that I have post-natal depression and that the kids are not being cared for properly, and then a few days after, father in law shows up unannounced in my home, and has a dictaphone hidden (not too well mind you) in his pocket.  Really freaked me out that someone would try to record the goings on in the family home. One of the kids grabbed it from his pocket when he was playing with the children and it was only when he went to leave he noticed it was gone. He proceeded to tell us he'd lost a set of keys and searched the place for the "keys". If it was so innocent, then why not tell us it was a dictaphone? It's really sickened me & I feel that they are trying to pry and make a case that I am an unfit parent which I know is totally untrue but it's not what I know, but what can be twisted and presented to a judge. I can laugh about the actual incident, but what's behind it is quite worrying and stressing me out immensely.


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## diver (18 Apr 2010)

This sounds serious and potentially very messy. My simple advice to you is to inform your solicitor about all these happenings and take his/her advice on what to do. Obey all court orders, visitation accesses from now on. 
Asking for advice on a forum such as this may not be the way to go, as I've said, consult your solicitor and follow any advice given thereafter.


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## dubinamerica (19 Apr 2010)

I've just set up an appt with him for this week. I feel physically sick regarding all this and the family are turning all of this on me. My daughter is suffering under the strain of it all but they don't seem to care how it impacts her at all and cannot seem to understand that she's not ready to see her father, and are blaming that on me. My husband has been sending text messages to her and to me which on paper will sound really caring and so on, but it doesn't show how he has yelled at our child for years, called her names and thrown a plate just over her head. I feel that they are all now trying to make a case that he is so caring and that I am a bad mother. I cannot understand how they would put this extra stress on me, when I am home with such a young baby also - it's really disturbing and the whole dictaphone thing, while I laughed about it, there is an underlying motive in it.


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## asdfg (5 May 2010)

be carefull what your writing here as im sure they could have access to the internet


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## WaterWater (6 May 2010)

dubinamerica said:


> My daughter is suffering under the strain of it all but they don't seem to care how it impacts her at all and cannot seem to understand that she's not ready to see her father, and are blaming that on me.


 
Has she said that she doesn't want to see her father or is it you using her against your husband?


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## maybemaybe (14 May 2010)

Seems alot of drama for something so small
Recordings are not permissable in Courts, end of. As another answerer put it, if there is barring/safety/protection orders in situ, your placing yourself in a very slippy slope by being at your ex partners abode. In effect, if you are that afraid of your ex husband, why be in the same room as him. "the fear of threat/violence".....not the act itself, so if you were in a room full of people, you would still feel fear? would you not?
If they were that concerned about your treatment of the children, they would contact the HSE and proceed with the relevant sections (think its S20/S21), and correctly assess the children, not through a dictaphone, by recording them saying "mammy's mean to me", good god, my son would tell you I shout and him all the time and 'kill' him from time to time....kids words are not adult actions. Let them record you, if you have nothing to hide, and just keep yourself away from situations like that, the in laws, out laws, ex partner......that generally solves any possible disputes.


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## PaddyBloggit (14 May 2010)

"Seems alot of drama for something so small" ...

the matter in question wasn't so small in the eyes of the OP.


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