# Can't return to work



## Stoked (25 Apr 2012)

Hi first post here so sorry if it's a duplicate. 
Been intimidated/bullied at work, I have not reported this as I'd be going up against a strong union and it would never be resolved properly.  There would always be problems. 
I have taken time out which is coming to fruition soon. 
My mental health sufferred drastically because of this and the time out has really made me realise this.
Not sleeping anxiety attacks/basically consumed with this. 
 There is simply no way I'm going back but I'm gonna be out of pocket.
If I go on illness benefit/sick leave... How long before I'll get sacked??
I'm not one for taking the ....  but I can't see another way of leaving without getting something as effectively I'm being pushed out through intimidation. 
The company in question is a colossal corporation. 
Stoked.  
HR are only concerned with keeping the unions happy where I work in any case.


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## 44brendan (25 Apr 2012)

You need to make a formal complaint on this issue. All corporations (particularly major ones) should have a strong HR policy on bullying in the workplace. You may be surprised at how your complaint is handled once you formalise it.
Have you spoken confidentially to HR abouut the issues?


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## Stoked (25 Apr 2012)

Thanks for reply. 
Yes there is a grievance procedure however I know going this route will only make the workplace more miserable as non unionised staff are in the minority. 
As I said I can't go back... I was practically suicidal when I was there.. It's not worth it the place has too many bad memories at this stage. 
I've worked here a long time and given good service. 
Stoked.


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## Leo (25 Apr 2012)

Go talk to your GP. If you are feeling under such stress/pressure, they will certify you as being unfit to work, and you can go on sick-leave. Then, with a clear head, take some time to consider your options and plot the right course of action.


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## Stoked (25 Apr 2012)

Thanks Leo. 
Did this a long time ago...did counselling etc. 
Tried meds to help me cope but that's all temporary. 
I need to not go back...and I've decided I'm not. 
Just need to know how long a sick note will last before they squeeze me out.. I have let HR know that I have mental health issues they also know work is part of it but not aware as to the extent. 
Stoked.


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## niceoneted (25 Apr 2012)

Stoked, I understand your situation but even if you never return to that company it would be important that you still make an official complaint. I would think for two reasons, 1 - that it may prevent it from happening again to another employee and 2 - to help you move on from it.


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## Diziet (26 Apr 2012)

You need to protect yourself - Step 1 is to raise a grievance. Step 2 (and you should do that now) is to talk to an employment solicitor.

What is your ideal outcome? Think what you want to achieve first, then the steps will become clearer.

I sympathise, it is horrible to be in this situation. My OH has been desperately depressed through workplace bullying so I know what you are going through.


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## Sunny (26 Apr 2012)

Horrible situation but not quiet sure what you are looking for. You say that the bullying has caused you severe mental distress but you are unwilling to even inform the company about it to give them a chance to do something about it. You are not willing to make a formal complaint or to take it further in any way and yet you don't want to go back to work. Why don't you simply resign if the situation is so untenable? 

This thing about you then feeling like you were pushed out through no fault of your own is your own decision. If you don't want this to happen, deal with it. If the company don't deal with it in a way that is acceptable to you, there are legal avenues to follow.

Asking people how long you can stay off sick for before the company loses patience isn't really the answer. You are just making problems for yourself when you go looking for your next job.


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## Stoked (26 Apr 2012)

Cheers all 
The reality is that it's news to no one that certain union members are breaking staff balls for years.  
I'm not the only one whose intimidated regularly. 
I don't want my family to be intimidated either so I'm gonna keep shut. 
Ideal situation would be a payoff but that's not going to happen. 
My job only exists because of poor management of union personel...poor work practices and inability to communicate with these guys has led to my position. I have to plan their work whilst considering  their work ethics. 

I suppose if I do go out the door for good I'll have a  word in HR S ear but it won't be news to them. 
Stoked.


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## Diziet (26 Apr 2012)

If you want a payoff you have to make a complaint. Have you consulted a solicitor?

I am afraid having a word with HR is unlikely to be effective. They have very little power, they are an administrative function. It is management you need to alert and quite honestly unless you take a grievance they can claim they are unaware of any issues.


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## Stoked (26 Apr 2012)

I know I'm going the wrong way about the whole thing but I just don't want to relive any of it. 
Hence my approach. 
Anyone able to answer original question?
Stoked.


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## ontour (26 Apr 2012)

No one is able to answer your original question about how long before you 'get sacked'  because there is no straight answer to it.  No one knows the policies in the company for sick leave and the payments etc. 

If the job is causing you so much damage, then the sooner you are out of there, the better.  Focus your energies on your future and finding a new job without the baggage.


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## Stoked (26 Apr 2012)

Yeah I'm gone from there as it is. 
I won't walk through those doors again but I will get  what I can at the same time. 
Stoked


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## WindUp (26 Apr 2012)

Resign -- otherwise you might find that you are carrying the baggage with you to your next role. If this is a colossal corporation i'd be very surprised if they didnt have policies in place for these situations


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## Diziet (26 Apr 2012)

Think carefully before you simply resign, but I agree that you don't want to be sacked. it is an awful thing to carry on your CV.

Here's another idea - talk to a solicitor, get him/her to set up a meeting with the company and work out a compromise agreement where you (for example) resign, get a decent reference and some kind of redundancy deal/garden leave to allow you to look for another job without the worry. They might say no, but it is an easy way out for them too so may well agree. 

It is not a good idea to wait to be sacked, how long it takes depends on the organisation and they have to go through the disciplinary process, they cannot simply sack you. You have to engage with them and work out a solution.

I would warn that going through the courts on a bullying complaint is soul destroying, and the outcome is never satisfactory. This is why you need good legal advice from an employment specialist solicitor.


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## shipibo (27 Apr 2012)

It seems to me as if this is a case of constructive dismissal

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...undancy/dismissal/constructive_dismissal.html

Speak to a solicitor with a background in Industrial relations, he will help you correlate your vase.

You need to chronologically document all cases of intimidation before you meet the solicitor.

All the best, and keep in touch


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## putsch (27 Apr 2012)

For what its worth a lot of people have been through similar situations - I know how scary and soul destroying they can be. If you have truly reached the limit you still have to figure out what will leave you satisfied enough to move on. 

If you can resign and be satisfied - do that. 

But if you feel you need to fight the company and you think you will be able emotionally to do that then check out your options with a specialist employment law solicitor. It is a shame that the union is part of the problem as they can be very helpful in some cases. But I do understand that may not be the case with you - they were a support for me though I had to find my own solution in the end and it took 3 miserable years.


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## shipibo (27 Apr 2012)

*Employment law:* There are clinics at centres in Dublin City Centre South (Meath St), Dublin City Centre (O'Connell Street), [broken link removed] and [broken link removed].
[broken link removed]


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## Stoked (27 Apr 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. 
Going to take some time with a level head and decide what's the best thing to do if anything. 
Thanks.
Stoked.


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## Complainer (29 Apr 2012)

It will be very difficult for any solicitor to negotiate where the employee hasn't reported any issue. The employer has no chance to fix an issue unless it is reported.


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## Black Sheep (29 Apr 2012)

I think you must either make a Formal Complaint or go the Constructive Dismissal route, but don't just "walk". While I fully appreciate either avenue adds further stress to an already stressful situation, the alternative (do nothing) leaves regrets and that constant niggling feeling that you should have done something.

This can destroy your thinking and make you into someone you're not, a bitter person.  Once you have put this matter to bed you can move on with a new phase of your life and close that door behind you.


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## traveliner (30 Apr 2012)

I have to respectfully disagree with 44brendan. I have worked as an employee advocate and been involved with many employment unions, from the employee and employee advocacy side...

Human Resources #1 job is to protect the company, not the worker. They are mainly interested in cleaning up messes to make the company and the management look good. They will side with the company 100% no matter what, unless the evidence against the company is strong enough to precipitate a lawsuit. They will only act in the employee's behalf if they know there will be a lawsuit and they will lose.

bullying is common and hard to prove. Finding a new job is the best solution. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but I hope it helps you somehow. I have seen these situations unfold firsthand.


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