# VHI & QUINN announce prices increases of 23% and 16% respectively



## NovaFlare77 (28 Nov 2008)

VHI has announced an average price increase of 23% and QUINN has announced an average price increase of 16% (ranges from 10% to 19%). Both insurers are raising prices from 1st January.

VHI's press release: [broken link removed]

QUINN's press release: 

VHI state that they are not passing on the proposed Community Rating levy, whereas QUINN say were it not for the proposed levy, their price increase would only be an average of 8%.


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## Sumatra (28 Nov 2008)

Imagine you just give up on the idea of health insurance? Could a combination of the public system and self insurance work? Put aside a lump sum in a higher yielding deposit. In the event of a claim there would be tax relief on the medical expenses and I’m sure one could negotiate a better deal for ones heart bypass etc than Quinn, VHI or Hibernian seem capable of? Has anyone crunched any numbers?


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## davidoco (28 Nov 2008)

after reading this article


I won't be investing my €108 per month VHI payment (for 2).

"Negotiate" -  I don't think consultants and hospitals are like builders, they don't negotiate on price.


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## PaddyBloggit (28 Nov 2008)

So .... is there any solution?

Anybody out there without health insurance?


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## Smashbox (28 Nov 2008)

davidoco said:


> I won't be investing my €108 per month VHI payment (for 2).


 
I'm in the same boat, and really wondering if I could do without.


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## PaddyBloggit (28 Nov 2008)

I paid an extra €100 at renewal time .... now it's going up again .... makes me wonder if I should really bother. 

I hit hospital .... the MRSA will get me anyway. (And I'm not just saying it tongue in cheek ..... I just don't trust their standards)


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## Dave Vanian (29 Nov 2008)

Brendan Burgess made an argument against health insurance some years ago on this site.  Can't find it now.


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## rmelly (29 Nov 2008)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Anybody out there without health insurance?


 
I know of a family who doesn't have any. Both parents are doctors, their take is that they'll get seen or sorted when they need to, based on who they know...


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## harvey (29 Nov 2008)

rmelly said:


> I know of a family who doesn't have any. Both parents are doctors, their take is that they'll get seen or sorted when they need to, based on who they know...


 
I think that used to be the case. My own doctor went into hospital via A&E and was left on a trolley for over 2 days before a bed could be found. This hospital was the same hospital that she referred her own patients to for over 20 years and had the humilation of some of her patients seeing her on the trolley - her occupation mattered not. 

Similarly, my uncle is a retired consultant and he too was left on a trolley waiting for a bed. Had Plan C with the VHI and never got a private room (public hospital) either so it didn't work for him either. Making a call to a consultant that you know is a different story.

One buys health insurance for piece of mind and hopes that affordabibilty is maintained. I have toyed with switching in recent years and I am going to seriously look into it in the next couple of days.


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## jimjim972 (30 Nov 2008)

harvey said:


> One buys health insurance for piece of mind and hopes that affordabibilty is maintained.


 
One way to achieve this is to reduce your level of cover to just cover for basic hospital and consultant cover without unnecessary add ons irrespective of whether you are with VHI, Hibernian Health or Quinn.


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## Willowchase (30 Nov 2008)

What I can't understand is how they say that the public health system is subsiding the private system and therefore the full economic cost of a bed in a public hospital should be charged.  

I would have presumed that as we are all paying our taxes and health contributions that this argument has no validity at all. We end up paying on the double for the 'public health contribution', or am I missing something?


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## jimjim972 (30 Nov 2008)

*Vhi !*

I just read that legislation was changed recently to allow VHI increase their prices when they want to! I didn't realise that they are not regulated by the financial regulator either.Does that mean that they can do what they want? Keep increasing premiums?


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## NovaFlare77 (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: Vhi !*



jimjim972 said:


> I just read that legislation was changed recently to allow VHI increase their prices when they want to! I didn't realise that they are not regulated by the financial regulator either.Does that mean that they can do what they want? Keep increasing premiums?


 
They are not presently regulated by the Financial Regulator as an insurer, but I think that's due to change in the next month or so. (Or is that just the solvency requirement?)

That said, they are under the remit of the Financial Services Ombudsman as well as being subject to the various Health Insurance Acts and regulations.

As for being able to keep increasing premiums, at the risk of being glib, yep they can. Same as the other insurers.


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## Ham Slicer (1 Dec 2008)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Anybody out there without health insurance?



I've no health insurance and don't intend to get any.  I've had some serious illnesses over the years and have always received the best of care.

I would never say a bad word about the care I received in either James Hosp' or Tallaght Hosp' despite spending a fair few hours on a trolley with a badly broken leg on one occasion.

I don't believe any of my family (adult siblings & father) have any insurance either.


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## truthseeker (1 Dec 2008)

Ham Slicer said:


> I've no health insurance and don't intend to get any. I've had some serious illnesses over the years and have always received the best of care.
> 
> I would never say a bad word about the care I received in either James Hosp' or Tallaght Hosp' despite spending a fair few hours on a trolley with a badly broken leg on one occasion.
> 
> I don't believe any of my family (adult siblings & father) have any insurance either.


 
I totally agree that the level of care you receive once you manage to get admitted is no different whether public or private.

The real problem is that people without insurance are left waiting a long long time on public waiting lists (depending on the nature of the complaint). I know a lady who waited over a year for a hip replacement, and she was in excruciating pain for a lot of that year, if she had gone privately she would have had the operation in a matter of weeks - but she didnt have insurance. This is not an isolated case.


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## Jimbobp (1 Dec 2008)

Anyone considering switching to Hibernian health should note that they have just announced a discounted price on most plans incepted on either the 21st or 31st of this month.


www.powerinsurances.ie


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## demoivre (1 Dec 2008)

truthseeker said:


> I totally agree that the level of care you receive once you manage to get admitted is no different whether public or private.
> 
> The real problem is that people without insurance are left waiting a long long time on public waiting lists (depending on the nature of the complaint). I know a lady who waited over a year for a hip replacement, and she was in excruciating pain for a lot of that year



Did she contact the NTPF?


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## demoivre (1 Dec 2008)

jimjim972 said:


> One way to achieve this is to reduce your level of cover to just cover for basic hospital and consultant cover without unnecessary add ons irrespective of whether you are with VHI, Hibernian Health or Quinn.



I totally agree with this and changed two years ago to the most basic private health package.


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## jimjim972 (2 Dec 2008)

*Plan B VHI v Hibernian Health Level 2 ?*



mugga said:


> I'm not switching either as THE other choices are all into insurance in all areas wheras VHI is just into health care and the others will eventually up their prices any way.


 
Well I'm on Plan B and the equivalents and comparisons are here: 
(although prices are not updated with increases of VHI & Quinn & Hibernian Health's price reduction) I rang VHI to see what they said and of course they tried to tell me that I'd be better with another policy with add ons blah blah. You've had my money for over 30 years of membership with one claim ever where I had to pay an excess of £1. It's nearly €300 cheaper for Hibernian Health than VHI with more cover ! Oh yeah VHI did say that I could switch back to them without penalty if I wasn't happy with Hibernian Health.


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## Omega (2 Dec 2008)

_ ....they have just announced a discounted price on most plans incepted on either the 21st or 31st of this month.....
_I don't see any reference to this on the Hibernian website - how do you get this discount?


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## NovaFlare77 (2 Dec 2008)

mugga said:


> I'm not switching either as THE other choices are all into insurance in all areas wheras VHI is just into health care and the others will eventually up their prices any way. Also, rightly or wrongly, I think the others will eventually cherry pick to insure those who have nothing wrong with them just like car insurance where you're penalised for every fiddle faddle thing.


 
Maybe the others will increase their prices, and maybe they will start cherry picking (though that would be very hard under current open enrolment regulations), but until that starts happening, shouldn't you shop around and make the savings? As you say, the increases are very high, so the clearest way to get the point across that you don't want high prices is to give your business to someone else.

Obviously you are well within your rights to stay where you are, it's your choice and your money. But for my money, I'd be looking to spend as little as possible to get as much as possible out of it.


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## NovaFlare77 (2 Dec 2008)

*Re: Plan B VHI v Hibernian Health Level 2 ?*



jimjim972 said:


> Well I'm on Plan B and the equivalents and comparisons are here:
> (although prices are not updated with increases of VHI & Quinn & Hibernian Health's price reduction) I rang VHI to see what they said and of course they tried to tell me that I'd be better with another policy with add ons blah blah. You've had my money for over 30 years of membership with one claim ever where I had to pay an excess of £1. It's nearly €300 cheaper for Hibernian Health than VHI with more cover ! Oh yeah VHI did say that I could switch back to them without penalty if I wasn't happy with Hibernian Health.


 
You should also check out the HIA's website (www.hia.ie), as they have a more comprehensive listing of the alternatives out there. It's not the easiest document to read, and it doesn't list every health insurance product out there, but it's a start and it's an independent source.


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## NovaFlare77 (2 Dec 2008)

Omega said:


> _ ....they have just announced a discounted price on most plans incepted on either the 21st or 31st of this month....._
> I don't see any reference to this on the Hibernian website - how do you get this discount?


 
They've updated their website this morning - [broken link removed].


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## scuby (2 Dec 2008)

harvey said:


> Similarly, my uncle is a retired consultant and he too was left on a trolley waiting for a bed. Had Plan C with the VHI and never got a private room (public hospital) either so it didn't work for him either. Making a call to a consultant that you know is a different story.
> 
> One buys health insurance for piece of mind and hopes that affordabibilty is maintained. I have toyed with switching in recent years and I am going to seriously look into it in the next couple of days.



Doesn't really matter what cover anyone has, lowest or higher plan, you can only get a private room if the hospital has it available, and the admitting Dr has some pull with the ward managers etc. the insurance company will pay up to the level you are covered to and have no input into what room anyone gets when they are admitted to hospital



jimjim972 said:


> One way to achieve this is to reduce your level of cover to just cover for basic hospital and consultant cover without unnecessary add ons irrespective of whether you are with VHI, Hibernian Health or Quinn.



You can do. AFAIK the only difference is that you will have a shortfall for the hospital charges. if lowest plan you have cover you for a semi in a publin hospital, then that what is paid if you go into a private room, Dr's get paid the same no matter what cover you have



jimjim972 said:


> I rang VHI to see what they said and of course they tried to tell me that I'd be better with another policy with add ons blah blah. You've had my money for over 30 years of membership with one claim ever where I had to pay an excess of £1. It's nearly €300 cheaper for Hibernian Health than VHI with more cover ! Oh yeah VHI did say that I could switch back to them without penalty if I wasn't happy with Hibernian Health.


well to be honest i would rather be 30 years + without a claim than having 30 a year.. would rather my health than wealth.
no one ever wants to claim from car insurance either but we have to pay high prices sometimes..



Omega said:


> _ ....they have just announced a discounted price on most plans incepted on either the 21st or 31st of this month.....
> _I don't see any reference to this on the Hibernian website - how do you get this discount?


heard it on the radio today, just said for "certain dates in december"


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## Omega (3 Dec 2008)

Just a quick note on the Hibernian offer, starting on 21/30 December.....
I went to the website and got a quote for "we" plan level 2 for 2 adults (both over 50, though I don't think that matters) and one child starting on 30 December for circa €1,300. This seems very reasonable compared to the new VHI fees for 2009 (approx. €1,900 for Plan B Options) and Quinn (approx, €1,700 for Essential Plus no excess). Am I missing something here or is this a genuinely better offer with no strings attached? Many thanks for any comments.....


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## Jimbobp (3 Dec 2008)

No, you're correct. The price saving is pretty massive at the moment. Hibernian will eventually have to increase their costs so the savings will be a lot less next year but this is a great deal for this year for those that change before the 30th of Dec.
Also note that we are brokers for Hibernian health and are currently offering to make a contribution to a charity of choice for anyone changing to HH through us before the 30th of the month (note it doesn't cost anymore to go through a broker). So anyone that is looking to change might consider this before going directly to Hibernian as you might be able to help someone else as well as getting a good deal.

www.powerinsurances.ie


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## NovaFlare77 (3 Dec 2008)

Jimbobp said:


> No, you're correct. The price saving is pretty massive at the moment. Hibernian will eventually have to increase their costs so the savings will be a lot less next year but this is a great deal for this year for those that change before the 30th of Dec.
> Also note that we are brokers for Hibernian health and are currently offering to make a contribution to a charity of choice for anyone changing to HH through us before the 30th of the month (note it doesn't cost anymore to go through a broker). So anyone that is looking to change might consider this before going directly to Hibernian as you might be able to help someone else as well as getting a good deal.
> 
> www.powerinsurances.ie


 
Jimbob, if you don't mind me diverting the course of the thread for a sec, do you know how many consultants Hibernian fully cover? I can't find any figure or precentage on their website.


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## Jimbobp (3 Dec 2008)

I know they have a list of their treatment centres on the back of their booklets (which can be downloaded from their site) but to get a list of consultants you'll need to contact them directly. Last time I talked to a rep they said that their list was similar to VHI and that if the consultant was not on their list then they would write to them on behalf of the client and ask them to join.


www.powerinsurances.ie


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## scuby (3 Dec 2008)

Jimbobp said:


> Last time I talked to a rep they said that their list was similar to VHI and that if the consultant was not on their list then they would write to them on behalf of the client and ask them to join.



sounds weird ! they copy the vhi list and then write to a Dr to Join if not listed/covered. Surely they would have written to all consultants in the country to ask them to register.  Not pleasant for the patient to go checking to see if the are covered or not.


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