# Why, oh why, do ESB spend money on advertising ?



## z105 (30 Sep 2008)

I saw an ad on RTE last night, I think during questions and answers, for the ESB, now, can anyone please advise me why a semi-state company such as the Electricity Supply Board has an advertising budget when they are practically a Monopoly? Who are they trying to sell to exactly? Could the money not be used elsewhere ? say, to take down the cost of electricity for it's customers perhaps, or be used in creating an efficient customer services department which is deplorable?

More waste of taxpayers money


----------



## ajapale (30 Sep 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> .... used in creating an efficient customer services department which is deplorable?



Ive never heard anyone complain about the ESB's customer services department. Perhaps you could give a few examples of poor customer service from the ESB? Are they as bad as BT, Chorus/NTL for example.


----------



## rmelly (30 Sep 2008)

No problems with the ESB, however I agree wholeheartedly with the main point, and wonder the same EVERY time I hear/see an ad for effective state monopolies. It might only be a few hundred thousand euros, but can anyone explain WHY the ads are necessary? Same for An Post?


----------



## micmclo (30 Sep 2008)

An Post have competition though

Yeah, it's strange alright to have the ESB doing ads, don't quite understand it myself


----------



## rmelly (30 Sep 2008)

micmclo said:


> An Post have competition though
> 
> Yeah, it's strange alright to have the ESB doing ads, don't quite understand it myself


 
They don't really, not for standard mail for the general public.


----------



## z103 (30 Sep 2008)

It's for all those people with gas lamps and their own generators.


----------



## Purple (30 Sep 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> I saw an ad on RTE last night, I think during questions and answers, for the ESB, now, can anyone please advise me why a semi-state company such as the Electricity Supply Board has an advertising budget when they are practically a Monopoly? Who are they trying to sell to exactly? Could the money not be used elsewhere ? say, to take down the cost of electricity for it's customers perhaps, or be used in creating an efficient customer services department which is deplorable?
> 
> More waste of taxpayers money


Good point!


----------



## Purple (30 Sep 2008)

ajapale said:


> Ive never heard anyone complain about the ESB's customer services department. Perhaps you could give a few examples of poor customer service from the ESB? Are they as bad as BT, Chorus/NTL for example.


 Average pay in the ESB is around €80'000 (plus benefits) so for that I would expect the people answering the phone to be happy.


----------



## ajapale (30 Sep 2008)

Remember this from the 1980's?


----------



## micmclo (1 Oct 2008)

ajapale said:


> Remember this from the 1980's?



Good ad.
I don't know his name but does the actor there now work for TV3?


----------



## rmelly (1 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> Average pay in the ESB is around €80'000 (plus benefits) so for that I would expect the people answering the phone to be happy.


 
Wasn't there a power station that wasn't running but had a full complement of staff for a year or more? Can't remember the exact details, but presumably these guys were happy enough to answer the phone, as they had little or nothing else to do...


----------



## rmelly (1 Oct 2008)

ajapale said:


> Remember this from the 1980's?


 
Seeing the radiator makes me remember that we weren't as backward back then as I thought we were.


----------



## rabbit (1 Oct 2008)

rmelly said:


> No problems with the ESB, however I agree wholeheartedly with the main point, and wonder the same EVERY time I hear/see an ad for effective state monopolies. It might only be a few hundred thousand euros, but can anyone explain WHY the ads are necessary? Same for An Post?


Perhaps kickbacks from the add agencies for the big knobs in the state monopolies ?


----------



## z106 (1 Oct 2008)

So - does anyone actually know why the esb advertise on tv? any theories at all? I actually can't think of one reason why they might do it.

Presumably they were operating on some logic when they decided to do it?
anyone know what that logic was?


----------



## Jock04 (1 Oct 2008)

There's competition on commercial supply, maybe they're targetting small/medium businesses, whose owners doubtless watch the box occassionally?


----------



## Flax (1 Oct 2008)

qwertyuiop said:


> So - does anyone actually know why the esb advertise on tv? any theories at all? I actually can't think of one reason why they might do it.


 
My only guess is that there is a particularly aggressive/ambitious marketing person who works for ESB, and has managed to get them to ear mark some money for an advertising budget.


----------



## PaddyW (1 Oct 2008)

micmclo said:


> Good ad.
> I don't know his name but does the actor there now work for TV3?



Yeah, Alan Hughes I think he's called.


----------



## Bamhan (1 Oct 2008)

ajapale said:


> Ive never heard anyone complain about the ESB's customer services department. Perhaps you could give a few examples of poor customer service from the ESB? Are they as bad as BT, Chorus/NTL for example.


 I have had a big problem with the ESb recently which I felt was managed very poorly.

I found them very rude and condescending and was even more annoyed that even though I am unhappy with the outcome of my complaint I will still have to avail of their monopoly service.

The CER was equally unhelpful and a waste of time.


----------



## jhegarty (1 Oct 2008)

It's good they have the adds on ... I slept through the rural electrification and didn't know it was available...

I will send them a telegram first thing tomorrow...


----------



## TarfHead (1 Oct 2008)

cos one of the 80K pa monkeys in there has an advertising budget so has to use it to justify their existence, or else implode in an existential crisis  ?

Some class of relation of mine works there and reckons the 80K pa figure quoted understates the reality.


----------



## rmelly (1 Oct 2008)

jhegarty said:


> It's good they have the adds on ... I slept through the rural electrification and didn't know it was available...


 
How did you find this out?


----------



## z105 (1 Oct 2008)

On the wireless of course !


----------



## csirl (1 Oct 2008)

> I will send them a telegram first thing tomorrow...


 
Might be quicker using this new machine called a Telex


----------



## Flax (1 Oct 2008)

TarfHead said:


> Some class of relation of mine works there and reckons the 80K pa figure quoted understates the reality.


 
I know a Danish graduate who was working there and was on something like 60k. It was his first job.


----------



## Complainer (1 Oct 2008)

OP - Have you considered giving the head office a call and trying to talk to whoever is responsible?


----------



## bond-007 (2 Oct 2008)

There are other providers out there, airtricity for one that can supply you. So the ESB might be trying to win back airtricity's customers?


----------



## Purple (2 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> OP - Have you considered giving the head office a call and trying to talk to whoever is responsible?


 What chance do you think there is of them taking the call?


----------



## z105 (2 Oct 2008)

> OP - Have you considered giving the head office a call and trying to talk to whoever is responsible?



No, feel free to do so and let us know how you get on.


----------



## rmelly (3 Oct 2008)

bond-007 said:


> There are other providers out there, airtricity for one that can supply you. So the ESB might be trying to win back airtricity's customers?


 
How, by telling us they exist? Are they offering to match or beat Airtricity prices in the ads or something?


----------



## Purple (3 Oct 2008)

bond-007 said:


> There are other providers out there, airtricity for one that can supply you. So the ESB might be trying to win back airtricity's customers?



So they are doing business to business advertising on national television?
What a great idea


----------



## gillarosa (3 Oct 2008)

They spend, or have spent money creating and running those ad's to create their brand image which evidence would suggest has been very effective as I believe it was post no. 26 before a competitor's name was suggested. ESB would have been aware of the proposed deregulation of the market for decades.

I've never had problems with their Customer service tbh have have few problems with their service either, and while I'm not one of the lucky on the €80K average, wouldn't mind being one!!!


----------



## Purple (3 Oct 2008)

gillarosa said:


> while I'm not one of the lucky on the €80K average, wouldn't mind being one!!!


Are you one of the unlucky who pay their wages (an ESB customer)?


----------



## csirl (3 Oct 2008)

> I've never had problems with their Customer service tbh have have few problems with their service either, and while I'm not one of the lucky on the €80K average, wouldn't mind being one!!!


 

Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a commercial building permanently hooked up to the ESB network, even those in urban areas adjacent to ESB cables?

We're talking years, not months. A lot of new buildings have to run on back-up generators for their first few months until the ESB bother to hook them up.


----------



## bond-007 (3 Oct 2008)

I can second that. It took over 6 months to get a service for an existing house relocated a whole 10 meters. It took a complaint to the regulator to get any action from ESB.


----------



## Complainer (3 Oct 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> No, feel free to do so and let us know how you get on.


I'm not sure why you'd expect me to solve your problem for you. But I guess your response gives a pretty clear indication how strongly you feel about the issue.



Purple said:


> What chance do you think there is of them taking the call?


Cold-calling any large organisation is difficult, and it might well be difficult to find the right person. But I'd bet a fiver that if you can navigate through a few layers to get to the right person, you could have a useful and enlightening discussion, if that's what the OP really wants of course.


----------



## rmelly (3 Oct 2008)

Is it ESB Customer Supply, or ESB Networks?


----------



## MandaC (4 Oct 2008)

ajapale said:


> Remember this from the 1980's?




I don't understand why ESB do advertise now that I am all grown up either.

But that "going back" ad was brilliant, I loved it when I was a teenager, and I still love it now -  thanks for posting it.


----------



## ajapale (4 Oct 2008)

If you google "ESB advertising" you will get plenty hits outlining various ESB campaigns. This is a recent advertising campaign. The rationale and objectives of the campaingn are clearly stated.



> ESB Networks eye-catching new media campaign airs today for first time
> 
> Volcanoes, avalanches, and tornadoes are the eye catching images in a major new advertising campaign promoting electrical safety which will be launched tonight (Wednesday 3 July) by ESB Networks on television.
> 
> ...


----------



## z105 (5 Oct 2008)

> I'm not sure why you'd expect me to solve your problem for you. But I guess your response gives a pretty clear indication how strongly you feel about the issue.


_Complainer, _I never asked for a resolution, or indeed for you, personally, to resolve, merely a question I posted - see the title of my op, it does have a questionmark at the end of the title, does it not? As for how strong I feel about the "issue" as you put it, I merely looked for other posters opinions on my thoughts, hardly a crime, and certainly not against the posting guidelines?


----------



## Complainer (5 Oct 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> _Complainer, _I never asked for a resolution, or indeed for you, personally, to resolve, merely a question I posted - see the title of my op, it does have a questionmark at the end of the title, does it not? As for how strong I feel about the "issue" as you put it, I merely looked for other posters opinions on my thoughts, hardly a crime, and certainly not against the posting guidelines?


I get it now. You don't actually want to know the answer to your question - you just want to jump on the anti-public-sector bandwagon - right?


----------



## Purple (5 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> I get it now. You don't actually want to know the answer to your question - you just want to jump on the anti-public-sector bandwagon - right?



How is it anti-public sector to ask why a company which has a monopoly over the supply of domestic electricity advertises to the domestic customer?

The health and safety aspect of the ads, as highlighted by ajapale, goes quite some way to answering the question.


----------



## z105 (5 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> I get it now. You don't actually want to know the answer to your question - you just want to jump on the anti-public-sector bandwagon - right?



Anti-Public sector bandwagon ? I've heard it all now ! If you can answer the question feel free, if not then don't contribute to the thread, please do not accuse me of being anti-public sector when this is completely unsubstansiated. Oh and please see posting guidelines number 10  


I understand why ESB would advertise to remind people of the health and safety aspect.

I just don't know why they advertise their product when we don't have an alternative, is there a reason why this budget cannot be used elsewhere?


----------



## ajapale (5 Oct 2008)

Another few reasons why the ESB might do advertising.

1)Energy conservation. (Promoting insulation, reducing consumption etc)
2)Load Management. (Promoting Night Rate Electricity)
3)Competing with alternative home heating technologies (solid fuel, gas, oil, etc)
4)Encouraging bill payments by Direct Debit.

aj


----------



## bond-007 (5 Oct 2008)

> 4)Encouraging bill payments by Direct Debit.


I don't see how their ads encourage that.


----------



## ajapale (5 Oct 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I don't see how their ads encourage that.



I did a google search for ESB + advertising and one of the hits I got was a reference to an ESB ad campaign designed to get more people to pay by direct debit.



> *Direct Debit means our customers have one less thing to Juggle!*
> The Residential Markets Team in Customer Supply have just kicked off a major campaign to tell customers about the benefits of Direct Debit and to encourage them to sign-up. From our perspective Direct Debit offers us a means of reducing the cost of managing each account, while customers can look forward to having one less thing to worry about in their busy lives.
> We're telling customers that if they pay their bill by Direct Debit, they've one less thing to juggle! Besides being easy to understand, this theme clearly reflects the three core elements of the ESB Customer Supply Brand - human (we care), simplicity (it's convenient and easy to sign-up) and efficiency (saving time).
> The campaign, which runs over the next two months, comprises of a number of elements including a Bill Insert (Mar/Apr) and Direct Mail that will include an offer of up to 150 FREE buy&fly! points. The campaign will also feature TV, Press advertising in national press and banner advertising on prominent websites nationwide.  To switch to Direct Debit, log onto [broken link removed], or CallSave 1850 372 372.


----------



## bond-007 (5 Oct 2008)

I certainly won't.  Nothing in it for me. 


> human (we care),


Ah sure fiction is a great tool in the propaganda war.


----------



## Complainer (5 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> How is it anti-public sector to ask why a company which has a monopoly over the supply of domestic electricity advertises to the domestic customer?





Havealaugh said:


> Anti-Public sector bandwagon ? I've heard it all now ! If you can answer the question feel free, if not then don't contribute to the thread, please do not accuse me of being anti-public sector when this is completely unsubstansiated.



The problem with the OP's approach is that he really isn't looking for an answer. He is looking to rant about another public body. The OP's silence in response to ajapale's constructive posts answering his question is deafening. 

I think I'll set up a post ranting about advertising spend by soap powder companies. It's a zero sum game - no-one buys more soap powder because they've seen an ad. Why don't Lever Bros and their ilk just take 35% off the price of the product instead?



Havealaugh said:


> Oh and please see posting guidelines number 10


If you've a problem with any of my posts, hit the red triangle, and let the mods moderate.


----------



## Purple (5 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> I think I'll set up a post ranting about advertising spend by soap powder companies. It's a zero sum game - no-one buys more soap powder because they've seen an ad.


They advertise in order to get a bigger market share (get people to buy their product instead of the other guys) as they are operating in a competitive market. The OP asked why the ESB advertised since they have a monopoly on the provision of electricity to the domestic customer.


Complainer said:


> Why don't Lever Bros and their ilk just take 35% off the price of the product instead?


Good question. I buy the cheap stuff from Lidl which is not advertised and so I don't pay for the ads (is it really 35%?). That's the great thing about choice and a free market


----------



## z105 (5 Oct 2008)

> The problem with the OP's approach is that he really isn't looking for an answer. He is looking to rant about another public body



And your proof is...?



> The OP's silence in response to ajapale's constructive posts answering his question is deafening.



Perhaps it's because I don't spend all day in front of my computer, and I only logged in now?



> If you've a problem with any of my posts, hit the red triangle, and let the mods moderate.



Indeed

Thanks ajapale for your reasons, but there is a current ad on RTE that doesn't seem to be promoting any one those, I've tried to google the ad in question but can't locate it anywhere (nor on their website).


----------



## Complainer (5 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> They advertise in order to get a bigger market share (get people to buy their product instead of the other guys) as they are operating in a competitive market.


Nice theory. And when the other guys do their advertising too, they are all just spending huge money to bump up/down against each other, with no benefit to the consumer (apart from time to make tea or take a leak between shows). When I worked in the FMCG sector (health & beauty products), the marketing costs were indeed in the region of 20%-40% of the wholesale cost of the product.



Havealaugh said:


> And your proof is...?


Because you pooh-poohed the idea of making a simple phone call to get the answer. Far easier to rant negatively than to do something positive.





Havealaugh said:


> Perhaps it's because I don't spend all day in front of my computer, and I only logged in now?


He posted yesterday lunchtime. You logged in at 2am and had sufficient time to argue with me, but no time to read/respond to the actual answers.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (6 Oct 2008)

I think AJ has answered the original question well. 

Other than that, the discussion is wasting a lot of energy.

Brendan


----------

