# How can I do things better with my next accountant?



## mhwombat (14 Jun 2008)

Background: I have a small business with only about 20 transactions per year, with an audit exemption. Every year I give my books, etc. to my accountant within 60 days of year end, with everything present and neatly organised. Unfortunately my accountant typically doesn't complete my accounts until the last possible moment, which causes me anxiety and forces me to pay for documents to to be rushed to the other director who is overseas. This year she's filing to change the ARD for my company because she says the "wrong ARD was assigned by Revenue". I believe she's doing this to buy time because the books won't be ready. But I feel I have no choice but to go along with it this year because otherwise we'll miss the due date. Finally, at least once a year I learn from Revenue or the CRO that some document or other hasn't been filed. My accountant always says that the document in question was filed, and that  it must have been lost in the system because it was a nil return... but at this point I have my doubts. For these reasons I am going to find a new accountant.

  My question is this: How can I ensure that things go more smoothly with the next accountant? I have two goals:  

  1. I want my books done within three or four months of when I submit them. (Assuming I submit them quickly after year end, this will avoid a last-minute panic with getting the documents signed.)

    2. I want some way to verify that returns and other documents are actually filed. (I've tried asking my accountant for a copy of my personal return when she files it, but she says that because it's done online there's nothing to show for it. When I use ROS to file my VAT3 and P30, I get an electronic receipt. Shouldn't my accountant be getting some sort of confirmation like an electronic receipt?)  

Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice!


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## Complainer (14 Jun 2008)

Have you raised these concerns with your current accountant?


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## rmelly (14 Jun 2008)

Soulds like he has but she always has an excuse - maybe legitimately?


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## mhwombat (14 Jun 2008)

Yes, I have discussed my concerns every year with my current accountant, but    I don't feel I'm being heard, just placated with lots of reasons that only partly address my concerns. And all those reasons may be legitimate, but after a while they start to feel like excuses.


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## Cherios (14 Jun 2008)

I am an accountants and a reputable accountant should keep you fully informed of any problems that have arisen. For instance when your return is filed online through ROS, the summary return will be printed along with the statement of liabilities, in most practices these will not be given to the client, however, if you request a copy of them then there should be no problem in giving this to you. 

If you go to a reputable accountant you should not have many problems. Sometimes problems can arise that may be out of the hands of the accountant, however, it is their job to keep you fully informed. I have worked in a number of practices and if you ask for copies there is usually no problem in providing them to you. Remember that you are the one paying the fee. Good Luck with the new accountant!!


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## mhwombat (14 Jun 2008)

Thank you very much, Cherios. Your reply makes me feel a lot better.


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## Graham_07 (16 Jun 2008)

As an accountant I'd be thrilled to have a client who is as anxious to ensure that they stay complicant and submit on time as the OP. While many do, it is not always the case. If the issues you have are not resolvable with the present accountant and if you find it necessary to move, then make sure you have clearly documented the expectations and obligations of each party on the new appointment. This is normally done on a letter of engagement ( which you should have now anyway ) . You can also request that you be given, as a matter of course, copies of submissions to Revenue and the CRO which keep you "in the loop".


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## KDA man (16 Jun 2008)

The size of the accountancy firm can be important. If it's a one person operation they will have priority clients.  Losing you as a client may not be a big deal to them.


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## Graham_07 (16 Jun 2008)

KDA man said:


> The size of the accountancy firm can be important. If it's a one person operation they will have priority clients. Losing you as a client may not be a big deal to them.


 
As a "one person operation" I would be very worried at the loss of any client and it would be a big deal, especially if it was  down to not keeping the client informed and dealing with their affairs as quickly as should be expected.


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## simplyjoe (16 Jun 2008)

Sounds like you are making the correct decision. As a matter of course all clients should make it clear to their accountant from day one what level of service you expect. He who shouts loudest gets the best service. When you have the ground rules set you can then get friendly with the accountant. I have no problem with clients demanding huge levels of service - providing they keep their side of the deal - provide books on time, don't need constant reminders.


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## mhwombat (16 Jun 2008)

Thank you so much, Graham_07, KDA man and simplyjoe. The advice I've received on this thread has been very helpful.


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## ubiquitous (16 Jun 2008)

KDA man said:


> The size of the accountancy firm can be important. If it's a one person operation they will have priority clients.  Losing you as a client may not be a big deal to them.



This is bizarre advice. I can't see how a small practice will be less worried than a big practice about losing a client. After all, a big practice will have a larger number of clients and the loss of a single client will proportionately affect them less. No decent practice will be happy to lose a good client, unless (as happens occasionally to all firms) they are grossly overworked at a particular point in time.



simplyjoe said:


> Sounds like you are making the correct decision. As a matter of course all clients should make it clear to their accountant from day one what level of service you expect. He who shouts loudest gets the best service. When you have the ground rules set you can then get friendly with the accountant. I have no problem with clients demanding huge levels of service - providing they keep their side of the deal - provide books on time, don't need constant reminders.



It should not be simply a case of "shouting the loudest". If a client in my firm is obnoxious or unreasonably demanding towards my staff, my policy is to tell them to go elsewhere. The best client/accountant relationships are where there is never any need for either party to shout, ie where there is a decent level of service provided to the client, and on the other hand the client facilitates the accountant in this regard, by providing books, records, spreadsheets and information as required and properly communicates all appropriate matters to the accountant. In these scenarios, a genuine friendship and mutual trust gradually develops between the client and the accountant. It is hard to beat the partnership approach that this fosters.


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## simplyjoe (16 Jun 2008)

Ubiq.
I would love to live in your perfect world.


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## z103 (16 Jun 2008)

> It should not be simply a case of "shouting the loudest".


I quite agree.
Under these circumstances, I certainly would be finding an alternative accountant.


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## ubiquitous (16 Jun 2008)

simplyjoe said:


> Ubiq.
> I would love to live in your perfect world.



Hi Joe

I did stress that my point concerns what I term "the best client/accountant relationships". If they were all that good, we would be laughing


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## simplyjoe (16 Jun 2008)

Thanks Ubiq. The point I inelegantly (sic?) made was from the customers perspective. I would like to think that i do have the relationship you describe with a lot of my clients. I know from taking over new clients from other accountants that that type of relationship does not exist in many cases. I feel that the client should always state at the commencement of a relationship with any professional advisor that they expect the highest levels of service. I agree that this should be a given but in some cases it is not. The best way for an honest and partnership approach to work is for the ground rules to be set in advance. The advisor should be left in no doubt as to whats expected. Ubiq I also agree that if a client is unreasonable or obnoxious or is engaged in unreasonable demands he should be asked to leave.


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## Graham_07 (16 Jun 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Hi Joe
> 
> I did stress that my point concerns what I term "the best client/accountant relationships". If they were all that good, we would be laughing


 

I guess everyone in practice has some of these "best client/accountant relationships" and they make the rest worthwhile. We would have some clients who we have had now for almost 20 years, it's  more like a partnership of minds at that point given the depth of knowledge, insight & trust one develops.


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## KDA man (20 Jun 2008)

talk to other business and ask around, generally the good accountants come to the fore. But do not use the first one you come accross. 

General rule is when you are looking for services, check out 3 providers.


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## Bubbly Scot (20 Jun 2008)

I just aquired a new accountant and between us we have worked out what has to be done. First thing we did together was prioritise the tasks and then we discussed what I wanted in the future. I like that I have an accountant at the end of the phone and she delegates some of the work to a bookkeeper within the firm (that keeps the costs down for me). 

If you go with a new one, I'd suggest you have a full and frank discussion before you engage and keep the lines of communication open. If the accountant asks you for something, provide it asap. Do as much leg work as you can so you don't have to pay him or her to do it and it keeps things rolling.

I wouldn't accept a second rate service, if you fall behind with the CRO or revenue you could be in an awful lot of bother. A good accountant is worth their weight in gold.


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## Graham_07 (20 Jun 2008)

Bubbly Scot said:


> A good accountant is worth their weight in gold.


 
Like the guy in the 4th one down here


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## rabbit (20 Jun 2008)

mhwombat said:


> Background: I have a small business with only about 20 transactions per year, with an audit exemption. Every year I give my books, etc. to my accountant within 60 days of year end, with everything present and neatly organised. Unfortunately my accountant typically doesn't complete my accounts until the last possible moment, which causes me anxiety and forces me to pay for documents to to be rushed to the other director who is overseas. This year she's filing to change the ARD for my company because she says the "wrong ARD was assigned by Revenue". I believe she's doing this to buy time because the books won't be ready. But I feel I have no choice but to go along with it this year because otherwise we'll miss the due date. Finally, at least once a year I learn from Revenue or the CRO that some document or other hasn't been filed. *My accountant always says that the document in question was filed, and that it must have been lost in the system because it was a nil return*... but at this point I have my doubts. For these reasons I am going to find a new accountant.


 Why let the old accountant away with such poor service ?  I assume you have paid her good money, year after year, for such poor service ? Fool you once, more fool ..................


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