# Probate, cost of Surety/Bond



## ricta (23 Jan 2009)

Hi,

My Mother has has been named Executrix in a Will, but is unable to carry out her duties. This leaves her with the options of hiring a solicitor to do it, or to give me Power of Attorney to do it for her; there is no relative of the deceased who could apply.
 I have been an Executor myself and have successfully completed a personal application for Probate in the past. In this case I would be applying for Letters of Administration with Will annexed, and one difference I see, from the last time, is that I will have to get a Surety/Bond for twice the estimated value of the estate, the estate being about €400,000. I assume this Bond is something I have to buy.
My question is who sells these Bonds, and what is the likely cost of one for €800,000? 
Ultimately I'm comparing costs/hassle of a personal application versus hiring a solicitor.
Thanks in Advance.


----------



## mathepac (23 Jan 2009)

ricta said:


> ...
> My Mother has has been named Executrix in a Will, but is unable to carry out her duties. This leaves her with the options of hiring a solicitor to do it, or to give me Power of Attorney to do it for her; ...


AFAIK, your mother cannot give you Power of Attorney over her duties as executrix. Either she must decline the role or act in that role - there are no other options. You (or someone else) will then apply for a Grant of Administration.


----------



## ricta (23 Jan 2009)

mathepac said:


> AFAIK, your mother cannot give you Power of Attorney over her duties as executrix. Either she must decline the role or act in that role - there are no other options. You (or someone else) will then apply for a Grant of Administration.


 
That was said to me by a legal secretary once, she reckoned I wouldn't have the power to make the oath, so I checked with my District Probate Registrary Office and they said it can be done that way. A solicitor has given me a template document he uses for the purpose and I have to go back to him to get it witnessed.


----------



## j26 (23 Jan 2009)

Extraction of probate is common enough under power of attorney.

What you get is a grant of limited duration, limited until the actual executor decides to take one out, at which point the limited one is revoked.  It's usually used where the named executor is living outside the jurisdiction.  People dealing with such a grant often require a solicitors certificate that the grant was still in full force and effect at the date of the transaction (e.g. an assent to the vesting of property in a person).  If doing it yourself, I'm sure an affidavit to that effect would suffice.


----------



## ricta (25 Jan 2009)

ricta said:


> My question is who sells these Bonds, and what is the likely cost of one for €800,000?
> 
> 
> > So, anybody have  anything on this?


----------



## juke (25 Jan 2009)

It's no longer necessary to take out an insurance bond - but it remains an option (eg if the administrator has doubts about their ability to administer the estate correctly)


----------



## ricta (27 Jan 2009)

I've just had clarification on this, a Bond and a Surety are two different things. A Bond is always necessary when someone other than the executor is applying, a Surety is optional.

Does any one know where a Bond can be purchased?


----------



## blackbrera (27 Jan 2009)

Hibernian/Aviva sell them.  I think they cost something like 2 euro per 1000 to be covered.  However, the bond has to be for twice the "penal" value of the estate, which is twice the gross estate (i.e. the net estate is less debts at the date of death).  So if the gross estate is 800,000, then you need a bond for 1,600,000.


----------



## ricta (27 Jan 2009)

Thanks for that good info, Blackbrera.

When a Solicitor is acting for an Executor does s/he have to take out one of these Bonds, or are they already covered by their practice insurance?


----------



## juke (28 Jan 2009)

Ricta, my last response was badly worded. 
One used to have to take out a bond - with an insurance co. as surety. Now you just need a bond - it's not something you need to buy - it's just a document the administrator signs - and which the solicitor prepares. 

If you want the optional surety - that's what you pay for.


----------



## blackbrera (28 Jan 2009)

ricta said:


> Thanks for that good info, Blackbrera.
> 
> When a Solicitor is acting for an Executor does s/he have to take out one of these Bonds, or are they already covered by their practice insurance?



It's a seperate matter, completely seperate to practice insurance


----------



## mjkearns (15 Apr 2009)

ricta said:


> I've just had clarification on this, a Bond and a Surety are two different things. A Bond is always necessary when someone other than the executor is applying, a Surety is optional.
> 
> Does any one know where a Bond can be purchased?


 
Hibernian Aviva issue Administration Bonds.  You can download the proposal forms and Administration Bond from their website at the following web addresses [broken link removed] and
[broken link removed].
You will have to modify the wording of the standard form bond to provide for the fact that it is a Will Annexed administration bond.

RSA (Royal & Sun Alliance) certainly formerly issued Administration Bonds but I do not know if they continue to do so.

The necessity for having a surety no longer exists.  The insurance company is the surety and you would be the principal.  A bond by the principal solely is sufficient provided he or she has assets to meet the penal amount required by the bond (i.e. twice the gross value of the estate of the deceased).  Because you will have control over the administration and will therefore be satisfied that you are correctly administering the estate according to the provisions of the will then you are not at substantial risk under the terms of the bond.

Either of the insurance companies will give you a quote for the once off premium that is charged for a bond if you consider it wise to involve them.  Given the foregoing it might be considered a waste of money.


----------

