# Using the Data Protection Act to get disclosure from a Financial Institution.



## ladylu (4 Jan 2013)

I wonder is it ok if i post a separate thread on this as it is linked to my first thread but I feel it is not well known about. And I have not seen it on here. 

Every person is entitled by law to do a freedom of information act disclosure on themselves with their bank. 

Basically you send off a simple letter enclosing a cheque for the amount of €4.65 (not 100% sure the amount) requesting all information your bank holds in relation to you. They have 40 calender days to hand it over. I know of a person who done it and they had a phone call from their bank manager telling them there was no need to go down that route. Which should set off alarm bells that the paperwork on their end is not good. 

Has many people done this on here?
Any interesting stuff you found out by doing this?

One health warning it does set off alarm bells  in the bank that all is not well. But if your going down anyway what does it matter.


----------



## Time (4 Jan 2013)

The Freedom of information only applies to government bodies. 

The Data Protection Acts 1988-2003 apply to banks and anyone else holding data. The max fee is €6.35.

They cannot wriggle out of this. Suggestions not to go down that route should not be heeded.


----------



## ajapale (4 Jan 2013)

Time said:


> The Freedom of Information Act only applies to government bodies.



Yes, the OP must be talking about the Data Protection Legislation as you state. Ill change the heading to reflect this.

aj


----------



## ladylu (4 Jan 2013)

Thanks i was talking about data protection act and yes enclose a cheque for €6.35.


----------



## Kerrigan (4 Jan 2013)

Insist the file is presented within the 40 days.  Sounds dodgy they tried to worm out of it.

On another note I have witnessed a file that had the names of bank officials scratched out i.e the people who were adamant the loan be approved and the people who  approved the mortgage.  Generally a lot of data regarding signatures and some dates were omitted.

Is that legal?


----------



## ladylu (4 Jan 2013)

The file I saw had a few F###s etc put in for the real words quite colorful language in it. The guy I know who was put off from getting his information has since requested it again. Haven't heard was there anything juicy in it or not. The fact they tried to stop him getting it would suggest to me there was a problem in his file.


----------



## mercman (4 Jan 2013)

This is a most interesting thread indeed. Where a dispute exists with a Financial institution how is a person to know if they are receiving the entire file without parts and pieces being left out ??


----------



## Hope2divorce (5 Jan 2013)

I applied for and received the entire file on my mortgage last year as I am going through divorce. I was given all MY side of the files as in every time my ex husbands name was mentioned it was blacked out, names of staff in the mortgage company were scratched out and none of his own dealings with the bank were in the file so they had some work cut out for them in getting it to me! I had no problem obtaining a form off them to get my file (kbc) and it was sent to me promptly and within the specified amount of days.


----------



## Raging Bull (5 Jan 2013)

I recently did this. 

I was after the Terms of Business Letter, Conflict of Interest policy and internal documentation surrounding how they assessed my mortgage application. 

Basically I was trying to show that they were not compliant with the Consumer Protection code. 

Of course they produced basically none of what I asked for because I know they did not do what legally they were supposed to. 

They even had the cheek to say that the Terms of Business Letter which is legally supposed to set out how they do business with me is not my personal data and I cant have it as (I was after it was in 2007/8 when they didn't have a policy) but I could have a copy of their current policy (ooh the irony). 

Hopefully the FSO will see them for what they are


----------



## Luternau (5 Jan 2013)

Would it be fair to say that if you requested all the informaiton they have on you, and at some future date they produced addtion undisclosed documentation, say in the course of any legal proceedings, that you could challenge the admisibility of this etc ?


----------



## Time (5 Jan 2013)

They would be prosecuted under data protection legislation at the very least.


----------



## alexandra123 (5 Jan 2013)

I rang up my bank PTSB last year looking for the terms and conditions of my mortgage to be sent out to me. The person on the phone told me that the file was so big that I needed to know which part I wanted to see. I told him I wanted to see it all, but he told me I could only req to see a certain part of it and that if I wanted to go ahead with the req that I would need to get my solicitor to contact the bank directly that I could not do it myself.

Is this the correct procedure ?


----------



## Time (5 Jan 2013)

No.

If you make a request under section 4 of the data protection act 1988 they must give you the info. There is no need to use a solicitor. If they fail to comply the data protection commissioner will get involved.


----------



## ladylu (6 Jan 2013)

This is all you need to do forget about ringing you have to write and do it yourself

Address it to your local manager that you would of orginal branch you dealt with.

example

Dear sir/madam
I request you furnish me with all data the (bank of whatever) hold in relation to me. I enclose a cheque made payable to the bank for €6.35. 

Yours sincerely 
XXXXX


Make sure you enclose your address, date the letter and get the letter registered so their is no room for silly beggars going on. And be prepared for a file about 6 inches thick that you might have to collect from the branch on most likely the very last day of 40 calendar days the have to comply with thw request.


----------



## mercman (6 Jan 2013)

If there were a number of investments with the same Financial Institution will a single request suffice ? As with a Pension Policy, does this make up a separate request ?

Moreover if policies were taken out in children's names by parents when they were minors, will this be a separate request for each child (adults now) ?


----------



## Raging Bull (6 Jan 2013)

there was a case where financial institution went up against the ombudsman and the financial institution had recorded the line of a phone call they never provided it to fso despite being asked for relevant material.it ended up in high court and suddenly unbeknownst to fso there's a transcript the bank submits as evidence. so there is two breaches of data protection / disclosure and also a breach of the act that sets out powes of fso.....really hope fso goes after officer of bank for noncoperation misleading etc...and gets the bank officer a custodial term.......so yes they are limiting what you can get and id say unless there is a live dispute its regular practice


----------



## ajapale (6 Jan 2013)

Raging Bull said:


> there was a case where financial institution went up against the ombudsman and the financial institution had recorded the line of a phone call they never provided it to fso despite being asked for relevant material.it ended up in high court and suddenly unbeknownst to fso there's a transcript the bank submits as evidence. so there is two breaches of data protection / disclosure and also a breach of the act that sets out powes of fso.....really hope fso goes after officer of bank for noncoperation misleading etc...and gets the bank officer a custodial term.......so yes they are limiting what you can get and id say unless there is a live dispute its regular practice



This post is garbled and meaningless. Perhaps you could edit it using clearly written English?





> Please take a little time to write your post carefully.  Use complete sentences.   Use paragraphs.


----------



## Kerrigan (6 Jan 2013)

Raging Bull said:


> there was a case where financial institution went up against the ombudsman and the financial institution had recorded the line of a phone call they never provided it to fso despite being asked for relevant material.it ended up in high court and suddenly unbeknownst to fso there's a transcript the bank submits as evidence. so there is two breaches of data protection / disclosure and also a breach of the act that sets out powes of fso.....really hope fso goes after officer of bank for noncoperation misleading etc...and gets the bank officer a custodial term.......so yes they are limiting what you can get and id say unless there is a live dispute its regular practice



Hi Raging Bull,

Do you mean request a transcript of all telephone calls between the mortgage company and the debtor?  If this is what you mean, then yes you are 100% correct.  People are so focused on getting their hands on the file that they neglect to ask for the transcripts.  This really gets the banks goat up!


----------



## Kerrigan (6 Jan 2013)

Hope2divorce said:


> I applied for and received the entire file on my mortgage last year as I am going through divorce. I was given all MY side of the files as in every time my ex husbands name was mentioned it was blacked out, names of staff in the mortgage company were scratched out and none of his own dealings with the bank were in the file so they had some work cut out for them in getting it to me! I had no problem obtaining a form off them to get my file (kbc) and it was sent to me promptly and within the specified amount of days.



Does anybody know if omitting signatures of the bankers who signed off mortgages is actually legal?


----------



## ang1170 (6 Jan 2013)

There's a good summary of accessing personal information here:


http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm


And yes, personal information does include any transcripts of phone calls that may be held.


----------



## Time (6 Jan 2013)

Kerrigan said:


> Does anybody know if omitting signatures of the bankers who signed off mortgages is actually legal?


Yes it is legal for the bank to redact any names other than the customers.


----------



## Kerrigan (6 Jan 2013)

Thanks for clarifying Time.  In this particular file the signatures of the mortgage holders solicitor was also omitted, along with dialogue back and forth between bank and solicitor.  The elite being protected again!


----------



## Raging Bull (7 Jan 2013)

Yes a bank did not provide the FSO or consumer a copy of all relevenat material for a investigation. They had a copy of a recorded call from teh consumer about a mortgage query.  The FSO based their decision on documentary evidence since they were not given a copy of the call. The complainant sought discovery via data protection and general discovery tehy were given nothing. Eventually the case went to High Court, teh Bank produced the tapes as evidence  and the judge was highly critical that the tape recordings were not provided to the FSO or complainant...so anyone who believes that a bank provides them the full information with data protection requests are kidding themselves.

On my own data request there are no records of internal mails between the broker and the bank about my mortgage application, there are no documents in relation to credit underwriting process and there are no documents in relation to the credit check from the Irish Credit Bureau


----------



## Kerrigan (7 Jan 2013)

There were very few credit checks in the false economy!


----------



## Raging Bull (7 Jan 2013)

Heres the case i found it

[broken link removed]

Hopefully the newspapers wont charge me for posting the link !!


----------



## Bronte (7 Jan 2013)

That's very interesting Raging Bull.  I've taken two cases with the financial ombudsman myself, one decided last month (partly in my favour with some compensation)  I must look at the documentation from the ombudsman to the bank to see what they asked in relation to documents.


----------



## Setanta12 (7 Jan 2013)

Fado, fado - before Data Protection legislation, I was told that solicitors always used paper-clips and un-numbered pages, if they needed wiggle-room when sending someone something. They, according to the teller, abhorred staplers as you could prove whether a certain document had been attached with the rest. No doubt apocryphal.

Much more recently, I believe trend is to use post-its to append comments to files.  These are much more easily disposable.


----------



## ajapale (16 Jan 2013)

Im going to split off the last number of posts which have gone off on a tangent to this new thread: 
No access to a cheque book. Would a bank draft suffice? and related issuses.



Keep this thread for discussion about using the data protection act to get information from financial institutions:
Using the Data Protection Act to get disclosure from a Financial Institution.

aj
mod


----------



## mrbea (5 Jan 2014)

Kerrigan said:


> Hi Raging Bull,
> 
> Do you mean request a transcript of all telephone calls between the mortgage company and the debtor? If this is what you mean, then yes you are 100% correct. People are so focused on getting their hands on the file that they neglect to ask for the transcripts. This really gets the banks goat up!


 
 Interesting thread.  What happens if the only information in relation to phone calls the bank sends on is a date, time and brief summary comment.  Should not the requested phone transcripts include a word for word record between the bank - in this case their arrears support unit, and the borrower?

 Secondly, if the bank omits phrases or sentences on certain photocopied pages of critical correspondence between broker and bank, in relation to the applicant, is that legal?  Certain phrases and sentences appear to have been clumsily banked out by putting part of a post it pad or similar strategically placed before photocopying.  These is also, for example, a gap of a few lines and a numbered point missing.  Its a bit puzzling as (a) the borrower borrowed in sole name, and there are no divorce / separation / other data complication issues (b) no attempt was made to withhold names of all bank and broker staff, so that's not it either.


----------



## Jim2007 (5 Jan 2014)

Kerrigan said:


> Does anybody know if omitting signatures of the bankers who signed off mortgages is actually legal?



Go read the legislation!  It is illegal to disclose in a data request any data relating to another living person!


----------



## Orga (5 Jan 2014)

mrbea - if a recording of the conversation occurred then there is a right of access to that recording, though this right is most frequently enabled by the recorder providing a verbatim transcript. Such a transcript will have redacted sections which relate to the personal information of others. In the event that the recording no longer exists then a summary record may be all that remains. The onus would be on you in making a case to the data protection commissioner to prove that the recording exists.


----------



## Johnsmith1 (4 Feb 2014)

I would like to apply for the part 4 data . Do I go to the original bank branch where I applied for mortgages some tears ago or is it to the branch financial services office that is dealing with my mortgages now


----------



## Time (4 Feb 2014)

It goes to the bank head office.


----------



## Johnsmith1 (4 Feb 2014)

Thanks Time I'm with AIB would you know is there head office ballsbridge ?


----------



## Time (4 Feb 2014)

Yes, Ballsbridge.


----------



## cufroige (4 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> I must look at the documentation from the ombudsman to the bank to see what they asked in relation to documents.



I'd be interested in this request also Bronte, did you look it up? 

Thanks


----------



## cufroige (4 Feb 2014)

I've made this request to the bank about 30 days ago, after reading an article suggesting to request it. At the risk of sounding ignorant, what am I supposed to look for once I get the file? (assuming I do)


----------



## Gerry Canning (5 Feb 2014)

Interesting threads.

1. As per ang1170 do this to get ball rolling on pesonal data.
2. Kerrigan, signing off on Mortgages is not a (legal) item. It would be good practice.
3. Raging Bull on not getting info before court. That is bad but please do not rely on our Ombudsman to help you. He has a very patchy record on finding for consumers. I would advise people not to rely on him.eg he only finds 12% fully for consumers and this after consumers have exhausted Bank appeals.The worst the Fso will do to Mr Bank is say (tut-tut) ! 
4l Lady lu , specifically include phone recordings. Think about the amount of things are done by phone with (your call is being recorded)
5. Time . Correct ,no need to use solicitor ie request yourself (keep copy of request)
6. Alexandra 123. Follow answer5. 

I could go on but Mercmans comment on (do you know you got all the info) is very interesting.
When you get (whatever) info , concentrate hard on what you receive and check does it tally wih your documentation.phone records. memory.
Given that 18% of all Mortgage Docs have serious flaws and that too much was rushe through in the fluffy times by proven incompetent Banks ,it might payto check things.
Most issues will not be major , but should you be in a dispute with your Lender and you feel Mr Lender is unreasonable ,it is good you have proper Ammo!


----------

