# Sinn Féin's tax proposals



## Brendan Burgess (4 Oct 2016)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...axes-for-those-earning-over-100-000-1.2816008

Tax raising measures include the abolition of the special 9 per cent VAT rate on hotel beds, although it will still apply to sales in restaurants and bars of hotels.Mr Doherty said this would raise €175 million and a new 7 per cent income tax rate on earnings over €100,000 would raise €464 million. Another large tax raising measure is a new 15.75 per cent rate for Employers’ PRSI on salaries over €100,000, raising €331.4 million.


A second home charge, at a rate of of €400, would also be re-introduced, raising €110 million; capital gains tax would be raised by 3 per cent to 36 per cent, raising €29.3 million; a 3 per cent betting tax would raise €95 million and a sugar tax €101.3 million.


----------



## Delboy (4 Oct 2016)

Thats a lot of tax rises....I thought the 'emergency' was over!


----------



## Purple (4 Oct 2016)

Delboy said:


> Thats a lot of tax rises....I thought the 'emergency' was over!


Sure you'd have to rob a bank to make ends meet with that sort of a tax system... oh, wait...


----------



## T McGibney (4 Oct 2016)

They have no intention of entering government with any other party so their grandstanding and virtue signalling doesn't warrant any level of rebuttal.


----------



## Joe_90 (4 Oct 2016)

They would probably propose abolishing property based incentives too, no wait that's Fine Fail and Fine Gael!!! But only for the small guys.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (4 Oct 2016)

Sinn Fein/IRA proving yet again that they are totally unelectable.

We're at a crossroads with plenty of post-Brexit FDI to play for, especially in Financial Services.

Their solution? Increase tax on high earners by 12%.

I nearly preferred them more when they were blowing people up!


----------



## Protocol (4 Oct 2016)

I am not a SF supporter, but I don't understand the near mocking their alternative Budget gets.

They are socialists, aspiring to Nordic style taxes and spending.

So their proposal to increase income taxes should be expected.

Mind you, a top 57 % MTR is high even by Nordic standards.


----------



## Sarenco (4 Oct 2016)

Protocol said:


> Mind you, a top 57 % MTR is high even by Nordic standards.



It would actually be 62% for the self-employed.  

Would anybody bother trying to earn €100k if the SF proposals were ever introduced?  Bear in mind that a married couple earning €50k each would hit €100k.


----------



## Protocol (5 Oct 2016)

By 62 % you mean:

40 tax plus extra 7%
plus how much PRSI ?
plus how much USC ?


----------



## Protocol (5 Oct 2016)

Please note their higher tax rate would apply to INDIVIDUAL income, not family income as suggested by Sarenco above.

Please see SF Budget document.

Please note that I will never vote for them, in case you think I'm a supporter.

My life is a search for the truth.


----------



## Sarenco (5 Oct 2016)

Protocol said:


> By 62 % you mean:
> 
> 40 tax plus extra 7%
> plus how much PRSI ?
> plus how much USC ?



Well, the current marginal rate for the self-employed is 55% (there's a 3% USC surcharge applied to self-employed income over €100k) - add 7% and you get to 62%.


----------



## Sarenco (5 Oct 2016)

Protocol said:


> Please note their higher tax rate would apply to INDIVIDUAL income, not family income as suggested by Sarenco above.



Well, a couple obviously consists of two individuals.  If they happen to be married (or in a civil partnership) and are jointly assessed then they are treated as one for tax purposes.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (5 Oct 2016)

In a world where we (i.e. Ireland Inc) are competing for jobs and investment, these Sinn Fein/IRA proposals are utterly ridiculous. Back in my trainee days, I remember doing tax equalisation calculations (essentially getting an employee to the same net income as he/she would receive in his/her home country). Employers would frequently baulk at the cost. Imagine the cost if taxes were to increase by 12% as suggested by Sinn Fein/IRA?


----------



## Steven Barrett (5 Oct 2016)

Pointless budget proposals. But then they know that, it appeals to their base. 

The most annoying thing about their proposal (and the proposals of the other parties) is it's just robbing Peter to pay Paul. No chance of increasing taxation to roll out world class broadband for the whole country, so we can attract more high tech companies throughout Ireland. No, it's increase tax for some so they can give it away by reducing tax for others. And the country just ticks along, excelling at nothing. 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Oct 2016)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Sinn Fein/IRA proving yet again that they are totally unelectable.



Are you sure about that?  These proposals may well be far more electable than my suggestion of cutting tax and social welfare.

The fact that something is crazy doesn't mean it's not electable.

Brendan


----------



## orka (5 Oct 2016)

Protocol said:


> They are socialists, aspiring to Nordic style taxes and spending.


Not quite.  Nordic style taxes would mean Ireland's high earners would stay paying pretty much what they pay at the moment, middle earners would pay a bit more and lower earners would pay a lot more than they do now.  Not quite what SF are proposing...


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (5 Oct 2016)

In 1983 the marginal rate of tax/prsi on incomes over £7000 was 67.5%.  Indexing in line with average wage, £7,000 in 1983 is worth around €30,000 today.   In a post Thatcherite era SF proposals are seen as extreme left, back in 1983 they would be seen as irresponsible giveaways. 
I'm just saying.


----------



## Firefly (5 Oct 2016)

SF wouldn't need to increase taxes at all....if they had their way they would dismantle both the Gardai & the army!


----------



## Gordon Gekko (5 Oct 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Are you sure about that?  These proposals may well be far more electable than my suggestion of cutting tax and social welfare.
> 
> The fact that something is crazy doesn't mean it's not electable.
> 
> Brendan



Their performances in the last few elections suggest a plateau of circa 16%.

There is a finite number of uneducated people, faux Trotskyites, and troublemakers.


----------



## ashambles (5 Oct 2016)

Protocol said:


> My life is a search for the truth.


If you think the SF proposals take us closer rather than even further from Nordic style taxes then maybe your search has just begun.

The truth is out there.

Try wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden. Check out the Swedish PRSI ceiling, check out the levels of income taxation from 4k to 50k.

If we consider Swedish style taxation fair and socialist, then the opposite of that, which we more or less have and SF want to exaggerate, must be what?


----------



## TheBigShort (5 Oct 2016)

From what ive read of it its a pretty underwhelming budget proposal devoid of any real impetus.


----------



## Firefly (5 Oct 2016)

I feel a bit sorry for SF at times...they really aren't the best at the sums really!


----------



## Gerry Canning (5 Oct 2016)

Dear Mr Gekko,

Are you sure their numbers are finite ?
Are you sure its just the uneducated who vote for them ?
Are you sure they include numerous troublemakers?
Are you sure they are Faux Trots ?

Could it not be that like UK on Brexit, USA on Trump that the disaffected (be they right or wrong) are going to vote for change , no matter how unpalletable
us (learned) ones think.?
We live in changing societal times!


----------



## Gordon Gekko (5 Oct 2016)

Then it is up to the rest of us to remind everyone how sinister these people are.


----------



## TheBigShort (5 Oct 2016)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Then it is up to the rest of us to remind everyone how sinister these people are.



Ok, take it away.


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> Ok, take it away.


OK, I'll start;
Finding extra funds for projects can't be based on checking if there's anything left in Jean McConville's hand bag.


----------



## Gerry Canning (6 Oct 2016)

SF ,
1. don,t need to be good @ sums , just need to make (nice) voter friendly figures.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> OK, I'll start;
> Finding extra funds for projects can't be based on checking if there's anything left in Jean McConville's hand bag.



That woman suffered a horrific death and her family a terrible ordeal some 44yrs ago during a bitter conflict.

What has it got to do with SF budgetary proposal for 2017?


----------



## Steven Barrett (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Canning said:


> Could it not be that like UK on Brexit, USA on Trump that the disaffected (be they right or wrong) are going to vote for change , no matter how unpalletable
> us (learned) ones think.?
> We live in changing societal times!



I think we have seen that already with the amount of independents that are elected to to the Dail. 

People are sick of the political system. Everything is based on the electoral cycle, what do we need to do in the next 5 years to get back in? Anything longer than that is a waste of time (see successive govts ignore the pension problem - taking money out of people's pockets now so it will benefit them in 20-30 years time will lose more votes than it will gain).

Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> That woman suffered a horrific death and her family a terrible ordeal some 44yrs ago during a bitter conflict.
> 
> What has it got to do with SF budgetary proposal for 2017?


She was killed by the IRA. SF are the political wing of the IRA. They haven't gone away you know.


----------



## Gerry Canning (6 Oct 2016)

By the nature of time , most of the old S,Feiners are getting closer to death and the upcoming SF do not have blood on their hands.
Within another decade there will not be powerful (IRA) people in SF.
SF is already morphing into a  democratic entity .
We may disagree with their politics but maybe its time to let the past be past ?


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> She was killed by the IRA. SF are the political wing of the IRA. They haven't gone away you know.



Thats news to me I have to say. It was my understanding that the DUP would never share power unless satisfied that the IRA had stood down.

But I see that the "they haven't gone away you know" cliche, hasnt gone away, ye know!


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> Thats news to me I have to say. It was my understanding that the DUP would never share power unless satisfied that the IRA had stood down.
> 
> But I see that the "they haven't gone away you know" cliche, hasnt gone away, ye know!


Right, so Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA and they didn't rob the Northern Bank... I've a few bottles of snake oil here. It's great for hair loss, blindness, and can cure most diseases. Would you like some?


----------



## Gerry Canning (6 Oct 2016)

BigShort.
There is little doubt that IRA ish, SF ish , people are up to their necks in unsavoury activities eg fuel laundering.
As time moves on these (buckos) are getting weeded out.
Yes IRA has stood down , but some of their henchmen are still in (mostly) non lethal operations.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Canning said:


> BigShort.
> There is little doubt that IRA ish, SF ish , people are up to their necks in unsavoury activities eg fuel laundering.
> As time moves on these (buckos) are getting weeded out.
> Yes IRA has stood down , but some of their henchmen are still in (mostly) non lethal operations.



Yeh, apparently so. Then on the other hand its most likely ex-IRA. The real concern is whether the party is being funded or aided by criminal activity.
And in fairness to SF I think it was last year when O Snodaigh? produced a letter from Garda Commissioner stating that there was no criminal link to SF (or words to that effect).


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> Right, so Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA



Id say he was.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> and they didn't rob the Northern Bank.



Who SF? IRA? 
My guess it was MI5.


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> My guess it was MI5.


 
... about that Snake Oil...


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

Well the blood on their hands is now dried in... I suppose that make it all ok so. Sure let's not dwell on the past.


----------



## Firefly (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> And in fairness to SF I think it was last year when O Snodaigh? produced a letter from Garda Commissioner stating that there was no criminal link to SF (or words to that effect).



We have one for that down here in Cork....."Ask me Mammy if I'm a liar"


----------



## thedaddyman (6 Oct 2016)

It's going to be interesting to see what happens SF when Gerry Adams goes. I know the general assumption down here is that Mary Lou will take over but I know supporters up North who have no time for her, especially as she had no part in "the struggle". I look forward to that fine decent Irish Republican tradition of the split.

I've little time for them to be honest and I do wish once and for all they'd be honest and admit to what they did over the years but it'll never happen. However to get back to the matter in hand, namely their budget proposals, there is actually some logic in a lot of what they are proposing and some of it is likely to be included or alluded to in the budget next week (sugar tax?).


----------



## T McGibney (6 Oct 2016)

thedaddyman said:


> there is actually some logic in a lot of what they are proposing and some of it is likely to be included or alluded to in the budget next week (sugar tax?).


There is already a sugar tax. It's called VAT and it's levied at a ridiculous 23%.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

thedaddyman said:


> do wish once and for all they'd be honest and admit to what they did over the years but it'll never happen.



Just to note. This is not intended for debate, but there are around a dozen or so deaths that are left in dispute as to who was responsible, with the finger firmly being pointed at IRA (or IRA members acting without sanction for such killings).
By and large, they generally admitted responsibility for their actions.
And in 2002, they apologised

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/peace/docs/ira160702.htm


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> And in fairness to SF I think it was last year when O Snodaigh? produced a letter from Garda Commissioner stating that there was no criminal link to SF (or words to that effect).


 Can you post a link please?
I haven't a bad word to say about anyone in the Shinners; I'm rather attached of my kneecaps.


----------



## Gerry Canning (6 Oct 2016)

Big Short,

Ah no , they didn,t admit quite a few times , eg young fella beaten to death since New Ire agreement,in Monaghan comes to mind, Jean Mc Conville from years back to mind .
That said lets move on , because Purple needs his kneecaps.!


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (6 Oct 2016)

The fact is that the SF proposals are not off the wall, they are a genuine alternative.  Of course, if they ever got their way down here, its back to my roots in Norn Iron for me, where SF has conceded these big picture tax things to the Tories in Westminster, but wait, what if that looney tune JC comes to power over there

For the time being we can thank our lucky stars that SF are still broadly seen as toxic down here, but when the old guard moves on and a split with the IRA Belfast wing becomes inevitable they could pose a formidable extreme left electoral force.


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

TheBigShort said:


> Just to note. This is not intended for debate, but there are around a dozen or so deaths that are left in dispute as to who was responsible, with the finger firmly being pointed at IRA (or IRA members acting without sanction for such killings).
> By and large, they generally admitted responsibility for their actions.
> And in 2002, they apologised
> 
> http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/peace/docs/ira160702.htm



What about the killings since then?


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> What about the killings since then?





TheBigShort said:


> there are around a dozen or so deaths that are left in dispute as to who was responsible, with the finger firmly being pointed at IRA (or IRA members acting without sanction for such killings).


----------



## Purple (6 Oct 2016)

Two different things; you are referring to the murders pre-ceasefire that they haven't owned up to. I am referring to the murders they have carried out since the ceasefire.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> Two different things; you are referring to the murders pre-ceasefire that they haven't owned up to. I am referring to the murders they have carried out since the ceasefire.



No I am referring to all deaths post and pre ceasefire.
The IRA apology in 2002 only refers pre 2002 obviously.
I was only pointing out that they did admit to lots of things and also apologised for lots. I never said they took responsibility for everything or admitted to everything. Im not trying to defend them, im just pointing out some facts.


----------



## TheBigShort (6 Oct 2016)

Purple said:


> Can you post a link please?
> I haven't a bad word to say about anyone in the Shinners; I'm rather attached of my kneecaps.



http://www.thejournal.ie/cross-border-smuggling-1954763-Feb2015/


----------

