# Smile Ireland: are they a debt management co? What is their business model?



## Apollo (13 Jan 2012)

hi,

Anybody any experience dealing a company called "_*Smile Ireland*_"? 

They don't seem to charge up upfront or ongoing fees unlike other debt management companies from what I can gather.

Any feedback welcome.

ta


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## ClubMan (13 Jan 2012)

From their website:



> [broken link removed]
> 
> Financial  Advisors of Smile Ireland carry out the normal role of a Qualified  Financial Advisor by giving a “Full Financial Review”, but also  including any creditors into the review. We look at everything from  Protection to General Insurance and put structured financial plans in  place to cover every aspect of your finances, not just your creditors.  Any insurance policies that we restructure or put in place, means that  the insurance companies pay us, so we don’t have to charge you.


For some companies this sort of business model might be a recipe for _*churning*_ otherwise they don't get paid. 

Have you (or whoever you're asking on behalf of) tried posting a summary of the case here in case people can provide useful feedback for dealing with a financial difficulty?


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## RPC757 (13 Jan 2012)

I tried them last year and they were able to do nothing for me. More frustratingly I was unable to contact them and they refused to return any phone calls to me. Hope this helps.


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## Wishes (13 Jan 2012)

OP your best option is to deal with a UK debt management company.  For some crazy reason they seem to have more clout in dealing with the institutions here.


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## Apollo (13 Jan 2012)

hi folks,

thanks for all your replies.

No clubman its in relation to somebody I can see falling on hard times this year and likely to get into arrears with mortgages, loans and possibly even household utility bills so don't have an actual breakdown of the case yet - just doing some groundwork for him first.

Don't like the sound of them not returning phone calls I have to say RPC757 & Wishes thats an interesting point you make about UK DM companies having more sway with irish lenders - doesn't bode well for their Irish counterparts if its true!


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## ClubMan (13 Jan 2012)

In many cases you don't need a third party agency to help in dealing with financial problems. But it does involve work and usually some tough decisions - which not everybody wants to face up to in my experience!


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## wbbs (13 Jan 2012)

MABS,  will take ages to get an appointment so ring as soon as possible.


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## Apollo (14 Jan 2012)

hi wbbs,

Is it not the case though that MABS are quite toothless in these situations compared to a debt management company? 

Apparantly they can get interest on loans frozen, moratoriums set up and pay holidays as well as revised pay plans to clear the arrears on everything - mortgages, unsecured debt and utility bills.

Smile Ireland seem to be able to do the same except they don't appear to charge fees which is a huge plus in my book as debt management companies can charge quite hefty upfront and ongoing fees. If this smile ireland crowd don't do this but simply make their money by restructuring a few insurance policies then my mate won't be down a good bit of money on fees (DM company fees) and will hopefully save money on insurance policies. If this really is the case then I don't see a problem.

 However I'm still anxious about recommending them to him as I don't know anybody personally who has dealt with them. Hence putting a post up on this site.


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## wbbs (14 Jan 2012)

I would have thought it was the other way around, MABS are more inclined to get a better result from the lenders as they have service agreements with practically all of them,  some lenders will not even deal with debt management companies.

The DMC 'claim' they can do all those things but I don't think that is the reality.

 MABS can also organise to pay the monthly payments and manage the lot but they restrict that service to people who simply are unable to do it themselves for whatever reason, I thought your friend might fit that category from your description of their troubles.   There is nothing to be lost by going to MABS, it wont cost anything, if your friends situation is serious enough you may be able to get an emergency appointment a bit sooner than the usual waiting list.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2012)

I would be very skeptical of claims by any business that they habitually charge clients nothing for sorting our their financial problems.


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## frostie (18 Jan 2012)

Most debt management companied, including ourselves received a letter from the Central Bank at the beginning of the month stating all debt management companies operating in Ireland could only do so with authorisation from the Central Bank, under the EU Payment Institutions directive. About time too! Until now it was completely unregulated, as I have stated in earlier posts on AAM.

Smile Ireland admit on their website that they get paid from commission earned when they re-sell any insurance policies that you have back to you, and from what I hear from a few clients who have come to us from Smile, they will only really point you in the right direction. 

If you do not have any resaleable policies, they are unable to help.

[broken link removed]
Several UK companies are now in the process of withdrawing from Ireland because of the new rules from the Central Bank.

 We have begun the authorisation process, and it's fairly rigorous, and designed to ensure that clients and client's funds are protected.

www.frost.ie


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## RichInSpirit (21 Jan 2012)

*Smile on Newstalk*

There was an interview with someone from "Smile Ireland" on Newstalk just a minute ago.

I heard them saying that their service was completely free. I was wondering were they a voluntary organisation.
I'm just after looking up their website and it appears that they try to sell you insurance while sorting out your debts.

I'm disappointed with them now. I consider insurance nearly more insidious than debt.


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## ClubMan (21 Jan 2012)

I presume it was on _Global Village_? I heard them mentioning that somebody from _Smile _would be giving financial advice but I didn't hear that slot myself.


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## Eithneangela (22 Jan 2012)

Beware of 'free' services from any part of the Financial Services sector - their business is in the pits, thanks to themselves mainly. Nothing is 'free' - there is always a price to be paid.


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2012)

ClubMan said:


> I presume it was on _Global Village_? I heard them mentioning that somebody from _Smile _would be giving financial advice but I didn't hear that slot myself.


 
Yes it was Global Village, it was Claire I think and it wasn't her first time on the programe.

All sounded very nice but I didn't hear of how Smile get's paid which would be quite pertinent.

 I wasn't 100% concentrating but people could be left with the impression that Smile were an organisation to help those in debt like Mabs is but Smile is a commercial organisation and I really think radio programmes should make that clear.


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## Clare Smile (1 Feb 2012)

RPC757 said:


> I tried them last year and they were able to do nothing for me. More frustratingly I was unable to contact them and they refused to return any phone calls to me. Hope this helps.


 

RPC757, I am surprised to hear that, maybe you could contact us and indentify yourself, as we have never ignored a client.

Smile Ireland is NOT a Debt Management Company, we do NOT charge fees (even though we could if we wanted to) and we NEVER take client funds through our account.  We are a Financial Services company who also offer assistance with Creditors should a client need it.  

If anyone would like full disclosure of how we operate, or indeed would like to talk with any of our clients, then please don't hesitate to contact us.


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## frostie (1 Feb 2012)

Clare, you can see my comment above. Here it is again:



frostie said:


> Most debt management companied, including  ourselves received a letter from the Central Bank at the beginning of  the month stating all debt management companies operating in Ireland  could only do so with authorisation from the Central Bank, under the EU  Payment Institutions directive. About time too! Until now it was  completely unregulated, as I have stated in earlier posts on AAM.
> 
> Smile Ireland admit on their website that they get paid from commission  earned when they re-sell any insurance policies that you have back to  you, and from what I hear from a few clients who have come to us from  Smile, they will only really point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...



There is not one word of my post which is untrue.


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## ajapale (1 Feb 2012)

Posts which consisted of a flame war between two companies have been deleted.

Would posters remain civil, remain on topic and use the report post facility if they think that the Posting Guidelines are being breached.

Thanks
aj (moderator)


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Feb 2012)

Clare Smile said:


> If anyone would like full disclosure of how we operate, or indeed would like to talk with any of our clients, then please don't hesitate to contact us.



I am very suspicious of any company who does not fully disclose how they operate in public.

Why don't you tell the Askaboutmoney community how you operate and then let us express an opinion on it.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Brendan


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## Bronte (2 Feb 2012)

Clare Smile said:


> Smile Ireland is NOT a Debt Management Company, we do NOT charge fees (even though we could if we wanted to) and we NEVER take client funds through our account. We are a Financial Services company who also offer assistance with Creditors should a client need it.


 
Welcome to AAM Clare, I got the impression from the radio programme that you were a company who help people manage their debts, but as I said I wasn't fully listening so I may have misunderstood. 

To be clear, for your existing clients, who come to you to invest, if they have debt problems you help them. I'm not well up on financial services companies but I presume you sell products/investments/insurance etc, so someone in financial trouble surely would not come to you as they would not have money to invest?


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## Clare Smile (2 Feb 2012)

Unfortunately people do confuse Smile Ireland with Debt Management Companies.  We are Qualified Financial Advisers who carry out the normal role of a Financial Adviser.  We work with clients to see what financial situation they are currently in, what they would like to achieve and what plans/products need to be put in place to achieve these goals.  In addition to the normal role of a Financial Adviser, we also offer an added service of dealing with the clients creditors, should this be an area of concern.

I am disappointed that people find it suspicious that we do not charge fees.  Financial Advisers do not normally charge fees, as we are already paid by the product providers, so it would not be fair to charge a fee when we are already paid.

Our financial services are Regulated by The Central Bank of Ireland and our files are kept to show our work and to back up any recommendations made.  Unfortunately dealing with creditors is unregulated, but we are happy to assist our clients in this area free of charge.


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## Clare Smile (2 Feb 2012)

Brendan, please see my comment in relation to my business.  My website fully explains how we work and how we are paid.


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## Wishes (2 Feb 2012)

frostie said:


> [broken link removed]
> Several UK companies are now in the process of withdrawing from Ireland because of the new rules from the Central Bank.
> www.frost.ie



Are these debt management companies?


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Feb 2012)

Clare

Let's be absolutely clear here, just to make sure that there is no doubt. 

If someone has a mortgage in distress and, maybe 5 other creditors. They do not want any insurance products. They obviously don't want any savings products. 

You will meet with them. 
You won't try to sell them anything.
You won't charge them a fee. 
You won't seek a fee from the creditors, with whom you negotiate on their behalf. 

They are under no legal obligation to deal with you again, although you would hope that such a person would be impressed with your service and would use you in the future when they are back in the market for financial services products.

If that is so, that is excellent. 

Brendan


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## frostie (3 Feb 2012)

Wishes said:


> Are these debt management companies?



Yes, Frost is a debt management company, based in Ireland. We charge a fee for the services we offer, and make no bones about it, however any consultation is free, and we only charge a fee if the customer decides to engage us to deal with their creditors on their behalf. But you get what you pay for!

For this fee we deal with the client's creditors for the duration of their plan, or until their circumstances improve to a level that they no longer need our help. The client can withdraw at any stage, without any penalties etc.

Regulatory requirements for debt management companies are currently underway, and compliance checks have been carried out. We have had four checks already this month, and all is well. Failure to meet with compliance requirements can, and will, normally result in the company being closed down by the Central Bank, as with Dunne & Maxwell last week. While NO debt management company is currently regulated by the Central Bank, the authorisation process is underway.

www.frost.ie


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## airgeadas (6 Feb 2012)

Hi there! I have been dealing with Smile Ireland for some months now and have found them great! I was in total despair about my finances and they have lifted a massive burden from my shoulders! When you get to a point where you are considering getting rid of your health AND life insurances so that you can feed your family, it's great to be given a lifeline! In the course of my dealings with Clare and the team they identified a better alternative for me and my family in terms of the life insurance cover we had. This was all explained clearly for us and we decided - with no bullying - to change insurance companies. I am aware that Smile Ireland gets paid by restructuring insurance. I'm fine with that!! That's a small price to pay for the peace of mind I'm having now. I would thoroughly recommend Smile Ireland to anyone who is in financial difficulty. I understand that people may be suspicious - as we ourselves were before meeting with Clare! - but now we feel we can sustain all our policies and our family without loosing our basic utilities, e.g. food, heating and electricity!! Well done to Clare and the team!!!!!


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2012)

> I understand that people may be suspicious


of such gushing praise from a first time poster with 13 exclamation marks!

Oh no, not at all suspicious !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brendan


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