# Opening up driveway - existing curb lip



## Tee (8 Mar 2011)

Hope that title is clear?

Our house has a wide road frontage.   Along this frontage, there is a driveway, with lip down onto the road at the very right.  Then a front garden wall along the rest of the front garden.   

At the very other end of the front garden wall, while there is still a wall, there is also a lip down onto the road implying there was previously a driveway here too.   

I'd like to swap the driveways around - close the current one and open the other one.  The current one is quite close to a big junction and the other, about 75 feet further down, is much further away from the junction and would be easier to use.  

As there is already a lip do I need planning permission to basically demolish a bit of my front wall?

If so, which is fine, what do I need to do?  Without sounding tight I'd rather not pay a architect for this minor piece of work if possible?

Thanks


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## onq (8 Mar 2011)

Horses for courses Tee and in this case I would suggest you might  consider using a competent civil and structural engineer to agree  matters with the roads department.
I would also get an architect to design your new front entrance so that  it looks well and then build in accordance with that - you will need a  set of drawings for the entrance.

However, if you were to go it alone with say a draughtsman and were to  approach the planners yourself regarding any new development just don't be surprised if it blows up on  your face.
This is because here is nothing minor about creating a new entrance less  than 100M from an existing major junction and you have to treat this  with the seriousness and deliberation the county road engineer will  expect.

You will also be scrutinised by the planners as you appear to be  inserting a significant entrance on a relatively important road in your  area.
Your neighbours may also want a say if you are intending to produce a  Southfork extravaganza - merely our of begrudgery if nothing else.

Failure can happen with developments like your that have a reasonable  chance of getting permission because the locals, planners and road  engineers read your attitude.
Half my job on private residences is managing clients with such an  attitude to keep them away from the planners - I front for them for a  reason.
That is reason enough to employ an architect.

If I can keep the project flying I will, but if they cannot be managed I will let them  meet the planners, scupper their chances of success and cover myself  with paperwork so thay cannot lay the blame on me.
I'll do this after telling them  in detail what their position is, just as I am telling you now.

If you decide to proceed with the application here are several aspects to this project you should be forewarned about so you don't get upset.
Due diligence is the byword in the local authorities these days and they will expect all aspects of the proposed development to be designed by competent persons.

1. The design of the entrance geometry.

This needs a roads engineer - dimensions, approach gradient,  sightlines, set back, modifications to existing boundary treatment in  two directions if required.  If your  supporting this application with an argumetn on improving road safety,  you will probably NOT be able to retain the existing entrance.

2. The design of the entrance walls, piers and gates. This needs an architect. 

Looking at the rubbish that's out there that was "designed" by the local schoolteacher on his day off, you should be able to see why.

3. The negotiations with the local authority. 

This may need input from  both architect and engineer to the roads and planning departments  respectively. The technical design of the entrance and sightlines must  be proven to be compliant and the improvement of the existing situation  on safegrounds must be emphaisized.

4. The meetings with local residents.

This may need input from both  architect and engineer. In an area like Foxrock, Dublin 18, I would  bring all your professionals along (see below) and a full set of drawings for your  proposed entrance. I would also have the initial discussions with the local authority completed at that stage and take the view that anything reasoable raised by the meeitng would be considered. My prefered way of doign somethign like this is that yo utrus t your designers to come up with a solution on the night and get all present to sign off on it and then lodge before they can change theri minds. This leaves only the people who didn't attend - there wil lalwsy be some who genuinely cannot make such a meeting and otherew who are intending to object who wil stay away. The very act of calling thsi meeting puts them on the back foot if they decide to object ("why didn't you go to the meeting and raise your concerns?"). Puls it also maps out hostile territory for you and allows you to target them with a charm offensive. Hopefully the minority, and if the numbers are right the council should go with your revised design assuming it doesn't contravene previously agreed principles.

5. Parks Department.

There may also be an issue if your boundary has an existing hedgerow  that is obscuring sightlines - in South Dublin for example the older hedgerows are  protected and the biodiversity principle suggests this may become an  issue all over the country if it hasn't happened already. Should the  Parks Department raise thsi issue, you may need both a tree surgeon and a  landscape architect to address these issues to their satisfaction. I  needed both to obtain a development of three houses in Knocklyon in  Dublin.

6. Surface water disposal.

There may also be input requried from your engineer in relation to  (i) surface water disposal , (ii) the design of the surface of the new  driveway, (iii) the installation of an attenuation chamber or pipe  reservoir and (iv) the removal of the existing driveway and the  restoration of the soil in that area. These issue may also require the  input of a landscape architect. 

7. Road and pedestrian safety.

THis issue may also require the input from the engineer to deal with run off onto the main road and within your site - to maintain public, personal and vehicular safety in our increasing cold winters. Ice on a path or a road where you're not expecting it causes accidents, and you're putting in a new entrance and acess ot your house in a different location from the existing one.

You may not need all these professionals, Tee, but the planners have a lot of  time on their hands now and like to be seen to be productive.
Plus you'll have one of the best designed driveways and front lawns you can get.

For other readers, the above strategy represents a reasonable plan  with thich to approach any planning application these days, but its nto exhaustive or fooproof.
You can still get an awkward planning officer or roads angineer or a parks department official with a particular agenda he wants you to follow.
However acting in good faith and performing due diligence on safety and the design - this tends to impress and may lead to a better result.



ONQ.

      [broken link removed]

      All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                      upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself -        should     legal       action     be    taken.
      Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to     advise          in            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue      reports    on   the        matters    at     hand.


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## Docarch (9 Mar 2011)

To answer the OP simply, yes you would require planning permission to open up a new vehicular entrance in the boundary wall (and close up the existing vehicular entrance). 

As part of the planning process, the Roads Department of the Council will assess the planning application and traffic safety issues. From what you say, you may be improving the situation that currently exists? If this is the case, there should be no issue in getting planning permission for the relocated vehicular entrance. 

To complicate a little, you could check with the Council and see if there was a second entrance on the plans for the existing house (if there was ever planning permission for the second entrance). If the second entrance was simply closed up by a previous owner, you may be able to re-open the entrance without planning permission but this would need to be discussed/agreed with the Council (possibly by means of a Section 5 Declaration).


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## Tee (9 Mar 2011)

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