# Someone else cashed a cheque made out to me



## HankReardon (21 Feb 2010)

Hi all, I am looking for advice on what to do next here. 

In early December, I went to the Gardai regarding a cheque that I was due to receive from the Government but never did. 

It was lodged into someone else's account. I reported this to the Gardai, informing them in detail what had happened and what the next step is. 

The Garda in question has done nothing as far as I can see to follow this up. 

The Garda was to call the bank and confirm my account of events (I had been speaking to the bank about this over a 2 month period), the Bank say they haven't heard from the Garda. Garda says she was speaking to them. 

I spoke to the relevent Government Department who issued the cheque and confirmed it was cashed and they said they haven't heard from the Garda yet either. The Garda told me she rang, left a message and was going to call again. I checked and this hasn't happened. 

What do I do now? I have called into the station 6 times over the last 3 months looking for an update but nothing. Once I did actually get speaking to her and she told me that she realised it was an important issue and a significant amount of money and that she had followed it up by phoning the bank and Government Department. 

She said she would call me to update me but didn't, so that's when I checked with Bank and Government Department and they said they hadn't heard from her either. 

All that needs to be done is for the Garda to confirm with either side that the cheque was issued and lodged, then the Garda requests a copy of the cheque from the Department, which the bank can then use to find the lodgement in whatever branch. Confirm that it's not an account belonging to me. Then the department are in a position to re-issue the cheque to me. The Bank refund them the money. The bank then follow up the fraudster to get their money back. 

Garda is doing nothing. Do I speak with her again? Do I go over her head? Do I report this to the omnbusman?

Many thanks.


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## Sue Ellen (21 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*



HankReardon said:


> Do I go over her head? Do I report this to the Garda Ombudsman?



Try going over her head first and if this does not help then the [broken link removed] seems the best option.  They cannot accuse you of not following all options if you take this route.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

What are you trying to do? 

*Civil matter
*You want your money, go back to the government department and tell them to give you the money as you have not got it yet. 

They will have to prove that they gave you the money. They will probably send you a copy of the cheque returned paid. You will be able to show it went into someone else's bank account and not yours. 

The Gardai have no role in this.

*Criminal matter *i.e. fraud
if you want someone prosecuted, all you can do is report the matter. It is up to the Gardai to decide if they want to pursue it or not. They cannot pursue all alleged crimes. They have to prioritise.


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## Padraigb (21 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

In dealing with any organisation, if I think an individual is not handling things in a satisfactory manner, the first escalation I make is to put my concerns in writing to the section I am dealing with. In the case of the Gardaí, I would write to the local Superintendent to ask what progress is being made in dealing with the matter I reported. It would not be worded as a complaint: I would allow them to work it out internally.

The option of further escalation is still there.


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## HankReardon (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

Initially, when I was speaking only to the bank and Department, the bank told me they needed a copy of the cheque to find it on their system because the branch that the Department told me it was lodged in proved to be incorrect, twice. And that if they were to find it they would need a copy of the cheque. So I asked the Department to send me a copy as it's my cheque and I'm entitled to one and I also pointed out that their information was wrong and that the bank have spend a lot of wasted time due to their incorrect information and needed a copy to find it. 

The Department have refused to do this saying it's not normal procedure. 

The bank then said that if I'm serious about this I should report it to the Gardai, they would get a court order requesting the cheque and then give it to the bank so that they can find the cheque. 

When they do, the Department told me that they can't/won't issue another cheque until the bank have gone to court with the person who lodged the cheque fraudulantly. 

As poor as the Garda has been in alll this the Department has been worse. 

This was a lost redundancy rebate cheque and runs into five figures btw.

I'll ring the bank again I think to see if they have heard from the Garda and, either way, I'll contact the Garda again and if she hasn't moved this along I'll put this down in writing and send it into the local superintendent. 

Who do I write to with an issue with the department?

Thanks.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

Forget the Gardai for the moment.

The Department owes you a redundancy rebate. 

In effect, they have not paid you. You must pursue them, not the bank. 

Not sure who the person is, but you have to go above the head of the person you are dealing with. 

Look at it like this.
John owes me €1,000.
He says he sent me a cheque for €1,000 
I say I did not receive it.
He must get the cheque to show that I cashed it. 

If he gets the cheque and sees that it was lodged into someone else's account - he still owes me the money and he has been defrauded by the bank.

Brendan


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## HankReardon (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

I'll do that Brendan. Thanks for the advice.


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## solomon (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

Brendan is right and indeed I would say forget the gardai totally. They will contact you if they need you as a witness at a subsequent fraud prosecution but will do nothing to get you your money.

Your issue is with the Department. Go back to them and say 'you didn't get your money  and could you please have it as a matter of urgency as you have bills to pay'. Contact your local TD or Councillor (opposition politicians might be better as they will be keenest to help)


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## Complainer (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*



Brendan said:


> If he gets the cheque and sees that it was lodged into someone else's account - he still owes me the money and he has been defrauded by the bank.


Are you absolutely sure about this, Brendan. If the Dept has issued the crossed cheque, payable to the right person, then they would have to be very, very careful about making this payment a 2nd time. No disrespect to Hank, but they can't be issuing a 2nd payment based on a 'I never got it' story. IMHO, the Dept is right to hold off.

If the bank cashed a crossed cheque, then Hank's problem is with the bank, not the Dept.


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## Mpsox (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

I'm unclear as to what actually happened here. Are you saying that the Dept issued a cheque to you and that you never received it? If so, the first thing you should do is confirm with the Dept where the cheque was sent out to. 

Secondly, and in fairness to the Dept, it is difficult for them to ascertain themselves where the cheque was lodged. All they will see on their statement is the cheque serial number and the amount, probably little else. Therefore you need to confirm the serial number of the cheque in question with the Department and also what bank the cheque was drawn on. You should then ask the Dept to contact their bank for a copy of the cheque. All of the banks are obliged to hold images of process cheques for 6 years under the interbank cheque clearing rules. there is no requirement at this stage for them to get the original. 
It normally takes around 10 days for such images to be provided. If the Dept refuses to do this then simply take the name of the person involved, ask to speak to their manager and escalate the issue. If they still refuse to do this, advise them that you will be raising a complaint with the Ombudsman. An alternative might be to go to your local TD and see can he/she put any pressure on the Dept in question, especially if you have some staff names. Another alternative, if you have the serial number, sort code and account number of the cheque in question, is to contact the bank direct and see if they can provide a copy, or to ask your own bank to contact the other banks clearing Dept to ask them to provide a copy. Note they may charge a fee for this

The problem you have is that even if you get the image and even if you know where the cheque was lodged, if this was a fraud, it will be difficult to get your money back as you will need to prove to the Dept in question that you were not a party to the fraud. In other words, if the cheque was posted out to the correct address, not lost due to any fault of the Dept, why should they pay out again? Your arguement may instead be with the bank in question, especially if they accepted a crossed cheque into an account in someone elses name


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## Padraigb (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*



Padraigb said:


> ... It would be worded as a complaint: I would allow them to work it out internally...



Just in case anybody thinks my opinion matters for much, I want to correct an omission: I meant to type "It would *not* be worded as a complaint...".

I think that in most disputes escalation should be gradual. A person with whom you are dealing might be doing things the right way, but you might expect something different. If you pursue your concerns as enquiries rather than as conflict, you might get a better outcome with less aggravation.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*



Complainer said:


> Are you absolutely sure about this, Brendan. If the Dept has issued the crossed cheque, payable to the right person, then they would have to be very, very careful about making this payment a 2nd time. No disrespect to Hank, but they can't be issuing a 2nd payment based on a 'I never got it' story. IMHO, the Dept is right to hold off.
> 
> If the bank cashed a crossed cheque, then Hank's problem is with the bank, not the Dept.



I think that the Department must prove that it paid me. 

If they can't prove that, then they must pay me.

They are right to investigate it, but if I did not cash the cheque, then they must pay me.

If they suspect me of being part of a fraud, they are right to question me and maybe refer it to the Gardaí

Let's say that there is a breakin in my office and some unlodged cheques are stolen and subsequently cashed. I think that they must still pay me.

Brendan


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## Pique318 (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*



Brendan said:


> Let's say that there is a breakin in my office and some unlodged cheques are stolen and subsequently cashed. I think that they must still pay me.
> 
> Brendan



Why? 
Shouldn't the onus be on the you to secure your property (ie, the cheques)? If they were stolen, they were stolen from you, and it's up to you to get them (or their value) back.

Slightly different case in the OP, however.
Does the OP know who lodged the cheque in question ?


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## davidoco (22 Feb 2010)

*Re: Garda Not Following Up*

Reminds me of this case.  
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-new...ghbour-cashes-workers-4000-redundancy-cheque/

"The position is that, in issuing the cheque to the claimant at the address supplied, my department has fulfilled its responsibility to the claimant," said minister Calleary.

I agree with Calleary.  If the OP supplied the wrong contact details then they (the department) are IMO correct to refuse to issue a new cheque.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2010)

Hi Pique 

The cheque is issued by the payer and marked not negotiable, so it must be lodged to my bank account. If the bank cashed it, then the bank must make good the money. I would have assumed to the payer, rather than the payee.

In the OP's case, it is lodged to someone else's account. It was not cashed to some anonymous person as such.


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## Pique318 (22 Feb 2010)

OK, well in that case, it's surely the bank's fault and they should rectify the matter by removing the funds from the shady parties account and lodge it to the correct account.

I agree the Gardai aspect is a seperate issue which they may follow up when the bank inform them of the attempted/alleged fraud.
On a side note, it appears that the OP knows who the shady party is, IMO.


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## HankReardon (3 Mar 2010)

Just to clarify: Two people were made redundant in 2008 in the business I work in. This missing cheque was the redundancy rebate from the first person. We received the second rebate, then rang the Department to see what the story was with the first one. They told us it had been posted and lodged/cashed 6 months previous. However, we never saw sight of this rebate cheque: this is the problem.

The department were able to tell me which bank it was lodged in. I contacted my local branch. They checked the dates and amounts and could find no records of this cheque. I contacted the department and they said it was lodged in Branch X of this bank. I passed that info on to the bank; they checked and it couldn't find it. I then repeated this step with the department. They then said it was a mistake and that it was lodged in a different branch. So I passed that on to the bank and again nothing. So since the Department gave incorrect information twice and also wouldn't give a copy of this cheque to us, the bank recommended that we go to the Gardai. 

They warned that it's common in cases like this that the person who lodged the cheque (the fraudster) can often be known to the person who the cheque was initially issued too (us) and that to keep that in mind. I checked and am not suspicious of anyone I know. 

Since going down the Gardai route has proved to be less than worthwhile, I'm thinking that another way, as you guys have said, is more advisable. 

We owe tax to the Revenue and so I will talk to them about it agree to have the amount written off against tax. 

Hopefully that will sort this out once and for all.

Thank you for your contributions.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Mar 2010)

> So since the Department ... wouldn't give a copy of this cheque .



Hank

You must follow this up first. As far as you are concerned, you have not been paid. You must insist on getting paid or getting proof that they have paid you. 

Have you written formally? 
Have you contacted customer service? 
Have you contacted the omudsman for the public service? 

That is the way to go. You might also ask your local TD to help

Brendan


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## Papercut (3 Mar 2010)

The way the Dept has handled the situation so far seems most irregular, & I hope that it is not a case of internal Dept fraud, because that is the only explanation I can think of for things to be handled in such an incredible & ridiculous fashion. Either that or the matter has been dealt with by one or more totally incompetent Dept employees.

  It’s quite simple for them to trace the banking trail of the cheque, & also for them to provide the OP with a copy.

  I would certainly at this stage be lodging formal written complaints as suggested above.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Mar 2010)

Papercut said:


> It’s quite simple for them to trace the banking trail of the cheque, & also for them to provide the OP with a copy.



Hi Papercut, that is the problem - it is not quite simple. 

As a small business, we write few cheques. It takes time and letters to get a copy of our own paid cheque. 

I imagine that the refunds section of the Department of Labour must be inundated with work and it will be difficult to solve. That is probably why he was told he couldn't have it. 

He has to persevere.

It could also be worth bringing to the attention of the Comptroller and Auditor General in case there is an ongoing fraud.

Brendan


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## HankReardon (3 Mar 2010)

The guy I have been speaking to about this in the Department says that he's can't give out a copy as it's "not normal protocol" and that " it's the Pay Master General's cheque. " He seemd sympathic to this situation yet powerless, or that he didn't have the courage to act out of normal proceedure. I put it to him that if he put me in touch with the Pay Master General I could explain the situation to them..but he wasn't happy to do that, instead referring me back to the bank/Gardai route. 

They didn't seem to have a problem finding the cheque though. He was able to tell me that someone has scralled the name of the person who it was made out to on the back to the cheque. I say scralled because they could only make out the family name of the signature. 

I am going to follow your post Brendan and take this a further step. As a next step in this I think I'll contact customer service with the intention of then putting this down in a letter for the attention of the omnbusman. And see how it progresses from there.

I'll keep you posted if there's any developments.


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## HankReardon (28 Sep 2012)

**UPDATE**

Went to new solicitor with this old problem. 

He contacted member senior member of Gardai locally, who gave this case due diligence. He got to the bottom of this quite quickly. 

Turns out that someone who was entitled to lodge check did so but didn't recall as they were quiet ill at that point in time. They lodged it in a Credit Union who in turn kept the money in a different account, for some reason. 

Junior Gardai or Department help with this left a lot to be desired so for anyone in a similar situation: keep at it.


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## Complainer (2 Oct 2012)

Thanks for coming back with the update, Hank. I'm still a bit confused by what is meant by  'kept the money in a different account'. Don't give out any information that would breach your confidentiality, but you might like to expand on this.


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## Time (2 Oct 2012)

Sounds like Father Ted to me.


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