# money laundering ID requirements



## ardmacha (26 Jun 2015)

I wanted to open an account with Rabodirect. I got the usual bill, passport copy and so forth and even through in a letter from the Revenue with my address on it. They sent back and stated that they wanted a certified copy of my passport. I checked that this wasn't because I hadn't sent a cheque, as a personal cheque normally removes the requirement for certified documents. It seems that they require certified docs for everyone. This is a recent requirement as their website implies otherwise. I spoke to them and clarified that this was their own requirement. I said that I didn't especially want to go along to a Garda station and I suggested that the need to do so didn't quite reflect their marketing which talks about "_No one wants obstacles thrown in their way before they've even made it off the blocks". _They said that I could get the docs stamped at another financial institution, but I couldn't quite see why some other bank with real offices should do their work for them, they said that I shouldn't tell them why I needed this done. 

Two things
The likes of Rabo should do a deal with An Post so you can bring docs along there, if they want to require all of this, rather than getting other people to do the work for nothing. 
In general there is a great need for a mature approach to ID requirements here and the Central Bank need some sort of central database that allows a person in good standing with banks and the Revenue open a new account without all this palaver. This is possible in many countries.


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## Lightning (27 Jun 2015)

Getting the Gardai to certify your documents is an easy straight forward task. AML requirements are there for good reason. 

If Rabo started using An Post would lead to increased costs.


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## Monbretia (27 Jun 2015)

Banks do this all the time for each other, it's no big deal other than having to make a trip to the bank.   A bricks and mortar bank won't take a photocopy as ID either, they have to see the original so it's understandable and should have been the case all along with Rabo really.


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## Steven Barrett (27 Jun 2015)

It's not Rabo's fault, it's the law and they have to apply it. 

Life companies require people to submit AML docs to take their money out of investment bonds even though they have already provided AML docs to put the money in in the first place!


It is a pain but the people to blame are the money launders. 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## ardmacha (27 Jun 2015)

CiaranT said:


> Getting the Gardai to certify your documents is an easy straight forward task. AML requirements are there for good reason.



The concept of AML requirements are there for a good reason, the actual arrangements adopted in this country may not be good ones. The entire structure is anticompetitive as it inhibits people moving  banks. A law abiding citizen should have  minimum hassle in doing this and it is incumbent on the Central Bank to make this possible. 



> If Rabo started using An Post would lead to increased costs.



Increased costs for Rabo, but less cost for their customers to whom they falsely claim to be so friendly and less cost for the taxpayer and other institutions. Perosnally I would rather the Gardai did important work rather than speidng their time saving Rabodirect a few Euro. I  would have given them siginficant business and they can afford to give An Post €5 to check the dociments.



Monbretia said:


> Banks do this all the time for each other, it's no big deal other than having to make a trip to the bank.



Really? How often does Rabodirect do it for other institutions? They are freeloading on people with physical offices. 



SBarrett said:


> It's not Rabo's fault, it's the law and they have to apply it.



They stated that it was not the law, but their own requirement. Other banks are allowed accept a personal cheque with an uncertified document, so why are they not? The law is ridiculous enough, but these organisations are acting the maggot with further customer unfriendly arrangements designed to suit themselves. What is really odd is that people here are supporting them when the ability to open an account is fundamental to a competitive market.


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## thedaddyman (29 Jun 2015)

Rabo are regulated by the Dutch Central Bank so possibly the concept of a personalized cheque with an uncertified document could be alien to them. Banks are required to adhere to the law as a minimum standard so if they want to do something above and beyond that, it's their business choice.


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## RaboDirect Team (30 Jun 2015)

Hi there,


Just to clarify RaboDirect does accept documentation certified by An Post, Credit Unions and other Financial Institutions.  Apologies, if you felt this wasn’t made clear to you.  The requirements for online account openings (such as the ones with RaboDirect) are more stringent due to the non face to face introductory channel, which under the local legislation is considered to be of hightened risk. RaboDirect cannot comment on the requirements of other financial institutions in this respect. Should you have any additional queries in relation to this matter please do not hesitate to contact us.


Regards,

RaboDirect team


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## ardmacha (1 Jul 2015)

thedaddyman said:


> Rabo are regulated by the Dutch Central Bank so possibly the concept of a personalized cheque with an uncertified document could be alien to them. Banks are required to adhere to the law as a minimum standard so if they want to do something above and beyond that, it's their business choice.



I'll bet you €5 that established citizens in the Netherlands are not subject to this type of paperwork .
And of course any business may impose additional requirements, but these make moving bank hardly worth the trouble. This particular bank has a lot of twee advertisements implying they are customer friendly, which may or may not be true for existing customers, but is a false claim for prospective customers.




RaboDirect Team said:


> Hi there,
> Just to clarify RaboDirect does accept documentation certified by An Post, Credit Unions and other Financial Institutions.  Apologies, if you felt this wasn’t made clear to you.  The requirements for online account openings (such as the ones with RaboDirect) are more stringent due to the non face to face introductory channel, which under the local legislation is considered to be of hightened risk. RaboDirect cannot comment on the requirements of other financial institutions in this respect. Should you have any additional queries in relation to this matter please do not hesitate to contact us.
> 
> 
> ...



I think this was made perfectly clear. As I said in my initial post I couldn't quite see why some other bank with real offices should do your  work for you for no reward. Will you be validating documents on their behalf?


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## thedaddyman (2 Jul 2015)

ardmacha said:


> I'll bet you €5 that established citizens in the Netherlands are not subject to this type of paperwork .
> And of course any business may impose additional requirements, but these make moving bank hardly worth the trouble. This particular bank has a lot of twee advertisements implying they are customer friendly, which may or may not be true for existing customers, but is a false claim for prospective customers.QUOTE]
> 
> To open an account in the Netherlands you are required to provide a valid form of ID, a BSN number ( which I think is similar to our PPS) and proof of address.
> ...


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## ardmacha (5 Jul 2015)

Following some discussion of this on another forum, someone pointed out that in Germany you can just go along to the Post Office and they will record your identify for this type of purpose, on behalf of the bank. 


We need that here.



thedaddyman said:


> I await my fiver



I'm not disputing that these documents are needed. However, I suspect the Netherlands has a similar arrangement to the German one for a bank that does not have a local branch.


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## sunnydonkey (3 Aug 2015)

thedaddyman said:


> Rabo are regulated by the Dutch Central Bank so possibly the concept of a personalized cheque with an uncertified document could be alien to them..



Cheques are stone age technology in most of Europe.  Most bills get settled electronically using IBANs.


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## Branz (3 Aug 2015)

ardmacha said:


> Following some discussion of this on another forum, someone pointed out that in Germany you can just go along to the Post Office and they will record your identify for this type of purpose, on behalf of the bank.
> 
> 
> We need that here.
> .


This I might add is the same Germany that requires full, ongoing, access to all bank accounts if you, or your partner/spouse/etc are in receipt of any state-originated payment such as welfare and the like.

OP, what bother with the hassle, wear the Green jersey and keep the mula here rather than subsidise the balance sheet of some foreign bank: this after all is Europe, where everyone is for themselves first, then their nation, then maybe Europe, only if we get a handout.


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## fernrock (17 Aug 2015)

Ulster Bank have similar requirements for their "on line accounts"

I recently applied for an on line account .  They required an original or  certified copy of either passport or licence. I queried if a photocopy would suffice but, they refused . When I asked them how I could obtain a certified copy they suggested (1) I visit one of their branches --round trip 30KM,  (2) visit Garda Station --round trip  --15 KM or (3) a solicitor---- round trip  15Km + possible fees. All this for an "on Line account".

Needless to say I will not open the account.


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## julius cafferky (18 Aug 2015)

fernrock said:


> Ulster Bank have similar requirements for their "on line accounts"
> 
> I recently applied for an on line account .  They required an original or  certified copy of either passport or licence. I queried if a photocopy would suffice but, they refused . When I asked them how I could obtain a certified copy they suggested (1) I visit one of their branches --round trip 30KM,  (2) visit Garda Station --round trip  --15 KM or (3) a solicitor---- round trip  15Km + possible fees. All this for an "on Line account".
> 
> Needless to say I will not open the account.


I am thinking of retiring from London to home.
Reading threads like this makes me think the North would be a better option,what with free banking,nhs,etc.


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## Gerry Canning (18 Aug 2015)

Julius.

The North may have NHS and free banking , but anecdotally it is the home of fuel laundering/cigarette smuggling ,so it may be we need these ID requirements or more importantly jail some Bankers for flaunting them?


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## thedaddyman (18 Aug 2015)

Northern Ireland requirements are likely to be the same as ROI as they are the same banks. In terms of a non-Irish bank, out of curiosity I looked up Barclays ID requirements and it refers to original documents not those printed from the internet.

[broken link removed]


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## ardmacha (19 Aug 2015)

thedaddyman said:


> Northern Ireland requirements are likely to be the same as ROI as they are the same banks. In terms of a non-Irish bank, out of curiosity I looked up Barclays ID requirements and it refers to original documents not those printed from the internet.
> 
> [broken link removed]



Of course, these are the very banks promoting online statements in the first place. 

All this palaver does nothing really to inhibit criminals, it merely annoys the lawabiding and prevents competition in financial services. Where you live is more or less irrelevant, what is important is who you are. There needs to be rethink.


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