# What are the signs that a public company might be going private?



## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

Does anyone have any information about the possible signs of the privatisation of a company.  What sort of changes would prompt the suspicion?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2021)

Privatisation is where a state owned company such as Telecom Eireann becomes a stock market company.

Is that what you are talking about? 

The changes would be the Minister for Finance talking about it and Sinn Féin opposing it.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2021)

Are you referring to flotation? 

This is where a privately owned company offers its shares to the public and seeks a quote on the stock exchange.

There is usually speculation about this before it happens.

The other signs would be funds taking stakes in the company or the company being much more conscious of its public image.  If you are in the finance department, you might see the financial reporting being a bit less conservative so the company looks more profitable.

Brendan


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## Laughahalla (15 Sep 2021)

or are you referring to a Public company going private?


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## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

Sorry, I was not clearer- I am referring to a public organisation going private.


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## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Privatisation is where a state owned company such as Telecom Eireann becomes a stock market company.
> 
> Is that what you are talking about?
> 
> ...


Before it became the obvious commonoly known direction, would changes be happening in the public company to 'prepare' it for privatisation?


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## RetirementPlan (15 Sep 2021)

It would be very unusual for such things to be happening without any political discussion. The first hint might well be political discussion. You might see appointments of board members or a CEO who would be particularly friendly to that approach, or maybe even with a track record in doing it. If you have employee nominees on the board of the organisation, they might be able to share some general views, though they won't be able to breach board confidentiality. Your trade union should be a good source of information too.


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## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

Thank you for the info. The company is currently employing a number of external people to newly formed senior roles along with employing externally for some existing senior roles, splitting the company into 'Groups'.  There is just speculation at the moment amongst the employees


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2021)

kitty81 said:


> Sorry, I was not clearer- I am referring to a public organisation going private.



You would need to be more specific as the wording used is confusing.

There are three types of company 
1) A state company such as  Born na Mona or  Eirgrid 
2) A publicly quoted company such as CRH plc or Ryanair plc
3) A private company such as Brendan Burgess limited 

Which are you referring to?


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## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> You would need to be more specific as the wording used is confusing.
> 
> There are three types of company
> 1) A state company such as  Born na Mona or  Eirgrid
> ...


Does it help to say its a semi-state company?!


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## noproblem (15 Sep 2021)

We'll work it out you know?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2021)

A semi-state company would be in the state company category. 

I don't think that there is any talk of privatisations at the moment. Maybe Coillte? 

They could reorganise the company in advance with a view to putting parts of it into a subsidiary which would be profitable and which could be privatised.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2021)

But if it's Coillte, you are ok as the Workers Party is opposed to it.



			WP rally to fight Coillte privatisation


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## kitty81 (15 Sep 2021)

noproblem said:


> We'll work it out you know?


Or you think you'll work it out...


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## Laughahalla (15 Sep 2021)

If I was a betting man I would say it's the VHI.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (16 Sep 2021)

DAA, ESB, VHI, perhaps.

No one would touch anything in the CIÉ group or the airports outside Dublin.


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## Purple (16 Sep 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> DAA, ESB, VHI, perhaps.
> 
> No one would touch anything in the CIÉ group or the airports outside Dublin.


How under funded are the pension funds in those companies?
That seems to be the main reason for privatisation. The money raised from the privatisation of Telecom Eireann went into the employee pension fund. When they were Civil Servants their pensions were funded through general taxation so once they became a semi-State there was a massive unfunded liability. In effect Telecom Eireann was sold and all the money was given to the employees.

 The CIE group has a deficit of over €1 billion now. Will they be next?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (16 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> The money raised from the privatisation of Telecom Eireann went into the employee pension fund.


Some, not all.



Purple said:


> The CIE group has a deficit of over €1 billion now. Will they be next?


No, because they don't have a business with underlying profitability like Telecom Éireann did.


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## Purple (16 Sep 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Some, not all.


Well the employees also got 15% of the shares for free.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (16 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> Well the employees also got 15% of the shares for free.


Of course. But the Exchequer took in IR£4bn IIRC.  You had claimed:



> Telecom Eireann was sold and all the money was given to the employees.


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## Purple (16 Sep 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Of course. But the Exchequer took in IR£4bn IIRC.  You had claimed:


.As I recall the sale netted €6 billion but I can't remember the size of the pension deficit. Since the employees were given 15% that means there was around €5.1 billion left from the sale. I know that their pension fund was back in deficit by 2010 but may have recovered since due to stock market growth.


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## kitty81 (22 Jan 2022)

Rehashing this discussion to ask a further question. Have just logged onto my revenue account to submit the 2021 year and I notice the name of my employer now has an additional company name after it? 

Does anyone know where Revenue pull this information from and where would I find the effective date of this change? Unlikely information available I appreciate but thought I would ask anyway!


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2022)

Companies Registration Office?




__





						CRO Homepage
					

Homepage. Companies Registration Office Ireland. Register of Companies and Business (trading) Names maintained. Company information can be purchased/obtained from website.



					www.cro.ie
				



Why don't you just ask your employer?


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## MugsGame (22 Jan 2022)

I'm a little surprised your employer entity could have changed without a TUPE notification / discussion, even if there were no material impacts from the change (I'm assuming more than a handful of people were impacted). I've been involved in reorgs in the private sector where the TUPE process was followed even where it seemed silly.


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## kitty81 (22 Jan 2022)

I will ask Clubman but won't get to until late next week and I'm far to curious to wait until then. 

Mugsgame, there are quite a number of employees who would be affected by it but not a whisper of this has been made to any of us.

Could there be any other reason it would appear on Revenue documents?


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2022)

kitty81 said:


> I will ask Clubman but won't get to until late next week and I'm far to curious to wait until then.


Did you check the CRO records so?


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## RetirementPlan (24 Jan 2022)

kitty81 said:


> I will ask Clubman but won't get to until late next week and I'm far to curious to wait until then.
> 
> Mugsgame, there are quite a number of employees who would be affected by it but not a whisper of this has been made to any of us.
> 
> Could there be any other reason it would appear on Revenue documents?


Have you approached your trade union?


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