# After Retirement



## Logo

I'm a few years from retiring and I'm interested how others plan for time in retirement - assuming that pension/ family/ finances are in place. I was talking with someone recently retired who mentioned how it can be difficult to fill some hours in a day. Although I have plenty hobbies and interests I suspect that I probably focus too much at work at the minute. I didn't ever expect to ask this question but how do people plan for retirement?


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## GSheehy

Standard Life have appointed an end of career guidance counsellor

If you've any policy with them you could contact your intermediary and ask to be inculded in any of the......  

Customer webinars
Regular ezines and articles
Helpful videos intermediaries can share
.......that they will have access to.  


Gerard

www.prsa.ie


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## AAAContributor

Logo said:


> I'm interested how others plan for time in retirement



This webinar might be worth a watch: 









						The Changing Face of Retirement
					

This is "The Changing Face of Retirement" by Magpie Audiovisual on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.




					vimeo.com
				




Skip past the tax talk. 

From just after the 34min mark there is material that could be relevant to you.


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## Leper

Logo said:


> I'm a few years from retiring and I'm interested how others plan for time in retirement - assuming that pension/ family/ finances are in place. I was talking with someone recently retired who mentioned how it can be difficult to fill some hours in a day. Although I have plenty hobbies and interests I suspect that I probably focus too much at work at the minute. I didn't ever expect to ask this question but how do people plan for retirement?


Here's advice from somebody who took all of ten minutes to settle into retirement:-
1. (a) Forget about work.(b) Forget about your former colleagues. (c) Concentrate on who you are and all those people you like and those who like you. The rat-race should be a distant memory each morning you wake.
2. If you have a hobby like golf, go out and play it and don't put the golf clubs into your car and spend the whole day in the golf club bar only.
3. Do not become a fulltime unpaid childminder for your grandchildren.
4. Clean up your garden and keep it clean. If you like gardening keep at it.
5. Allow time to your spouse on which she/he has got used to.
6. Take exercise e.g walking, jogging, weight training, swimming, cycling. Allow time each day for exercise.
7. Read daily quality newspaper even online.
8. Read what you enjoy and perhaps something that is taxing to your mind.
9. Your concentration can fail given time. So enjoy one or two quiz programmes on television and judge yourself against the contestants and the programme e.g. my general knowledge on Mastermind is about the same as contestants which I've built up over 3 years. I think I'd be pretty good on the Final Chase of The Chase too. [You've got to be honest with yourself and answer the questions before the choice is given or before the participants answer].
10. You have a car use it when the restrictions are lifted to travel around Ireland. Senior Deals are available in many hotels.
11. Get your Free Travel Card and get your Free Travel Card for Northern Ireland at the same time. Good hotel deals are more available in Belfast.
Leave the car at home and travel the length and breadth of the country North and Republic.
12. Do not sit around waiting for something to happen - Make it happen.
13. Spend 3/6 months in Spain, Portugal or Italy or Greece. It's cheaper than you think especially November to April and the cost of living is cheaper there too and you have nearly continuous sunshine. Learning a language is a good project too.
14. Don't spend your day in front of the television and when you watch television pick your programmes in advance. Don't get trapped into listening to Liveline every day either. I bet Joe Duffy will have difficulty settling into retirement, but I wish him only the best.
15. An Apprentice Retiree can fall into traps quite easily, but the veteran retiree is on his guard immediately when he hears "Hey Dad . . . "
16. And the classic . . . "You now have time to give something back . . . " If anybody says this to you lose him immediately; you heard it first from me.

I've spent five minutes posting the above without breaking sweat. If I think of something later I'll post that too.


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## LS400

All good points, but crikey, only for option 13, I was wishing retirement a long way away..


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## Steven Barrett

Hey Leper, is there an afternoon nap in there anywhere?


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## Marc

Retirement Planning Council of Ireland | Helping you prepare & transition to the next stage of living | RPC | RPCI - Retirement Planning Council
					






					www.rpc.ie
				










						Planning for Retirement - Everlake
					

Retirement requires a professional assessment of how you want to live in your later years, and a clear strategy to achieve your objectives.




					globalwealth.ie


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## Laramie

I travelled abroad about 6 times a year. Lots of planning advice/research available on the forums of Tripadvisor. Had summer breaks in Ireland.  Lots of gardening but always a sit down in the sun with a glass of something, come 4 p.m.

We download many TV shows/series for the long winter evenings. Take your time doing any DIY jobs.


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## Leper

SBarrett said:


> Hey Leper, is there an afternoon nap in there anywhere?


If I let my guard down Purple will be all over me like a Sicilian assassin - I seldom have time for a nap (except at Cheltenham!!!!)


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## Leper

LS400 said:


> All good points, but crikey, only for option 13, I was wishing retirement a long way away..


 November to April you can rent a good 2 bedroom apartment in Spain/Portugal/Italy/Greece for less than €750 per month inclusive of utilities etc. You can get rentals for less also, but stick with good locations and resorts that suit you. Unlike Laramie above the time for a glass of something in Spain is 1.45pm just before siesta.


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## niceoneted

A former colleague and friend of mine told me recently that retirement was the best kept secret. I've a bit to go myself but will be doing most if not all of Lepers list.


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## Steven Barrett

The retiree clients I have who seem to be enjoying themselves the most travel a lot. Not necessarily far away, but lots of trips to Europe. One couple go to the Canaries for February every year (except this year). They also have hobbies that take up lots of their time. Golf obviously takes up a lot of time to play but others are part of charity organisations, using the skills they've built up over the years and are not giving them back to others for free. 



Leper said:


> 3. Do not become a fulltime unpaid childminder for your grandchildren.


One of my clients told his kids that they'll mind the grandkids on a Monday and that's it. Otherwise, they'd end up spending the week minding each of their children's kids. They take them all in one go and it works a charm.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## time to plan

SBarrett said:


> Hey Leper, is there an afternoon nap in there anywhere?


I have in my phone calendar, a daily calendar item at 2:30 to 3:00 for a nap, starting when I'm 65. I'd be gutted if I forgot about it and remembered when I'm 70.


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## Dave Vanian

time to plan said:


> I have in my phone calendar, a daily calendar item at 2:30 to 3:00 for a nap, starting when I'm 65. I'd be gutted if I forgot about it and remembered when I'm 70.



Didn't you mention in another thread that you're currently 25?  Your username doesn't do justice to your forward-planning skills.   P.S. - I made up the bit about another thread.


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## Laramie

I just spent about an hour this morning looking at holiday rentals and hotels in Spain. Flights for late summer this year are reasonable. I am willing to pay a bit more for a nice sea view room in a nice hotel with a walk in shower plus balcony or rent a villa somewhere.
My bank statement says that I have plenty of money there. Happy to treat my family and rent a larger villa.  If only.......


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## Cervelo

I think for me I didn't really start to enjoy my retirement until I put some sort of structure and routine into my day
I keep it simple and divide my day into three sections morning, afternoon and evening
I'm a early bird  (normally can't sleep beyond 6am) but my wife is a night owl so I use the morning time for my hobbies
My main hobby is cycling and for all intents and purposes it has replaced the part of my life that used to be reserved for work
Afternoons are usually spent pottering around the house, planning our next adventure or off doing something with herself 
and the evenings are spent in front of the TV or out socializing with family and friends

It's a very simple structure to my day but it made a huge difference to how I use and enjoy my retirement
The other things that helped me along the way were to remember to be flexible in my routines and to enjoy the silly little moments that life throws your way but above all there is no right or wrong way to spend your retirement and if it's not living up to your expectations or your not happy
well then it's up to you to change those expectations and make yourself happy


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## Clamball

Great ideas from Leper and Cervelo.  What I hear is that you get the time to experience things at a pace that suits you. 

For example, I enjoy going for a swim in my local pool but I am always rushing, can I squeeze it in after work or before dinner? Actually during lockdown before level 5 when working from home I suddenly had more time to do this before work as I had no commute and I was able to go more consistently and enjoy the time more so I could see myself building this into my routine when retired at at slightly more reasonable later hour.  I could then see myself meeting a friend for a coffee, that way I get to socialise more with my friends, get to see 5/6 a week rather than a rushed call once every few weeks.  Then the afternoon doing household pottering and chores and opportunities to do early bird stuff in the evenings.  I have raced from work to evening events more often then I wanted to and never had time to meet to enjoy a drink beforehand or spend time getting ready.

I enjoy some online games.  I love reading and my bookclub.  I want to do more cultural events, cinema, art, theatre and the opportunity to plan and attend with hubby who work shift is something I will enjoy.

The idea of spending a few weeks/months in Greece every winter appeals, it just never happens now as my holiday time is committed to family holidays in Ireland.   Midweek breaks around Ireland and exploring the many parts of the country sounds fabulous.  Having the time to research, book in advance and the time to go will be invaluable.  

I see I have filled a post full of business so I won’t do everything together but I have seen retired people say they don’t know how they had time for work.


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## gipimann

Some great replies in this thread, thanks for sharing, folks!

I only have one piece of advice....try not to time your retirement to coincide with a global pandemic!  I took early retirement in Jan 2020, had lots of plans to upgrade the house I'd moved into 6 months previously, as well as a few trips here and there, both home and abroad.
January and February were spent on 2 short holidays and switching off from the routine of work.
No prizes for guessing what has happened since! I got one of the 3 main construction jobs done, little or no travel, and I've had a lot more time to myself than I ever imagined!  
Looking forward to retirement for real when all this is over!


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## Laramie

Like Cervelo, I am an early riser. My wife is the same. We have two breakfasts. One when we get up and another at about 10 a.m.

In between, we both sit on the Internet with the radio on in the background. I research lots of holidays, read the news, look at the FTSE, and other bits and pieces that interest me. During the summer we would both be out in the garden soon after our second breakfast. Working or pottering about.....for about two hours. We both like to have a project, this can be indoors or outdoors depending on the weather and time of the year. However, the project doesn't take over. Sometimes the job is scrapped at very short notice, for a day out, early lunch out, shopping spree. Family visit....in fact, the project is often scrapped. Probably why a job takes so long to complete....

Having worked in an office I absolutely hate paperwork, so shopping around for cheaper utility bills, cheaper car and house insurance, tax returns etc. seem to take forever.

We both have free travel.  Just before Covid we were really beginning to enjoy this. We live close to the DART, so we were hopping on the DART on a regular basis. We also became familiar with many of our local bus routes. Often incorporating a trip with a lunch out.

The energy can begin to drain in the afternoon so during the summer we often just sit out in the garden, enjoying a glass or low grade pottering about. Maybe a drive to the supermarket or up to Woodies or garden centre.

The evening is usually TV or downloads...sometimes a walk in the local neighbourhood.


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## Leper

This thread is interesting and I'm glad to see those retirees contributing have had positive experience in retirement. I had two retirements one over 22 years ago where I was retired for two days Saturday and Sunday before I started working for the HSE from which I retired over 3 years ago. A work colleague of mine retired 22 years ago too, his wife died shortly after and while things didn't go further downhill for him he just existed, had his breakfast, lunch, dinner and washed up once a week which later became once a fortnight and worse. He never became visibly unkempt, but other than breathing he had little raison d'etre. 

Recently, he asked that he compare his pension payslip with mine and as usual  I had no problem with this. It is obvious that he is paying too much income tax and when I pointed out this he said all he wanted was enough to get by. He hadn't advised Revenue in 22 years of his pension income and never claimed medical/prescription expenses (hence my recent Tax query on AAM).

His P60's for years have been stored in a biscuit tin along with his GP receipts, Prescription Charges etc. He was reluctant to allow me to sift through his personal paperwork, but with his permission I've sent off his relevant information to Revenue neatly summarised year by year. I have no doubt he is entitled to rebates and I'm hoping Revenue will cast a friendly glance at his claims. (He has no IT skills whatsoever and doesn't even want to know how to use email).

Now I meet the guy a couple of times per week and I have got him to go for a morning walk each day and he is even cleaning up his house and becoming (dare I say it?) a little more careful of his personal hygiene etc. I'm not judging the guy, but I'm just pointing out a pitfall or two somebody could easily fall in to.


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## phoenix53

He is so lucky he has you looking out for him Leper.  What I wish most for in my retirement is to be able to have the time, health and means to spend it with my partner.   I wish your friend well.


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## Laramie

Good to see that you persevered with your colleague, Leper and that it is working out. My best friend is my wife. We do everything together and I feel that I could easily be that colleague of yours if something ever happened to her.

Unlike Cervelo, both of us are early risers, share the same interests....although she seems to have twice the energy that I have.....and can keep going long after I have thrown the towel in.

I suppose that we are all different. I have a friend that I meet up with about 3 times a year. However this is usually at my instigation. We have a great time when we meet up but he never ever contacts me first....it is always left to me to make the arrangements. I can never understand this.

I have a brother who does the "your turn, my turn" thing.  I contact him, then he contacts me....then it's left to me to make the next contact because it is "my turn".  He has never strayed from this. He is now approaching 70 years of age and is still at it.  I send him an email, he responds then will not contact me until I reply to his email.   I remember some years ago that he went 6 months and would not contact me because it was "my turn".

I think that the best part of retirement is being spontaneous. Just heading off on a whim for a night away, a picnic etc. There are still some people out there who will look at you strangely because they don't do this. They always do their shopping on a Friday, only go for a drive on a Sunday etc.


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## Odea

Laramie said:


> I suppose that we are all different



 I took early retirement in my 50's.  I remember the comments passed by family members as to how I could do this and where did I get the money etc. My sister being the main culprit, stirring it among other family members.

When I retired we headed off on a few expensive holidays overseas. They weren't that expensive but to someone like my sister who spends her money changing her furniture every year they must have seemed expensive. She then started the rumour that  "we must have won the Lotto". Unfortunately my parents and brother believed this and thought that we were holding back and not telling them. It was a very nasty time.

I took great pleasure in never giving her any information. Any reasonable person could have seen that our lifestyle is devoid of bling and other luxuries. Money is spent on travel however.

So, there are some people out there who can have a jealous warped idea about other people who can retire early and it can be their purpose in life to spread rumour.

Thankfully, many years have passed, I don't talk with my sister, and continue to do the things that I want to do.


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## time to plan

Leper said:


> This thread is interesting and I'm glad to see those retirees contributing have had positive experience in retirement. I had two retirements one over 22 years ago where I was retired for two days Saturday and Sunday before I started working for the HSE from which I retired over 3 years ago. A work colleague of mine retired 22 years ago too, his wife died shortly after and while things didn't go further downhill for him he just existed, had his breakfast, lunch, dinner and washed up once a week which later became once a fortnight and worse. He never became visibly unkempt, but other than breathing he had little raison d'etre.
> 
> Recently, he asked that he compare his pension payslip with mine and as usual  I had no problem with this. It is obvious that he is paying too much income tax and when I pointed out this he said all he wanted was enough to get by. He hadn't advised Revenue in 22 years of his pension income and never claimed medical/prescription expenses (hence my recent Tax query on AAM).
> 
> His P60's for years have been stored in a biscuit tin along with his GP receipts, Prescription Charges etc. He was reluctant to allow me to sift through his personal paperwork, but with his permission I've sent off his relevant information to Revenue neatly summarised year by year. I have no doubt he is entitled to rebates and I'm hoping Revenue will cast a friendly glance at his claims. (He has no IT skills whatsoever and doesn't even want to know how to use email).
> 
> Now I meet the guy a couple of times per week and I have got him to go for a morning walk each day and he is even cleaning up his house and becoming (dare I say it?) a little more careful of his personal hygiene etc. I'm not judging the guy, but I'm just pointing out a pitfall or two somebody could easily fall in to.


My Grandad struggled when he was widowed, but a bit later, age 80. Didn't want to do anything with his time. After much cajoling, he worked out that it was nearly as cheap to spend 3 months in a Spanish hotel in winter than it was to heat his house. Food and entertainment laid on. He wasn't much of a drinker. And he hadn't been abroad since being in the British Indian army in the 1920's.

He got himself a girlfriend, and had a great time. When we cleared out his house after he died, he had condoms in his bedside table, not a full pack and well in date.

Funnily enough, he was a really nasty man almost all of his life, horrible to his wife and kids - my Dad and Uncle's childhoods were only saved by being evacuated from London as kids during WW2 to an amazing foster family in Cornwall for five years. But then my Grandad had this realisation of how terrible he had been and that it was still possible to change, and he ended up a real pleasure to be around. Just show it's never too late. Still feel sorry for my Granny mind - lovely lady with a ruined life.


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## OMG_OMG

As a recent retiree, since about a year go in my 50s, i gotta say im enjoying it.
Its been a bit stunted by covid, but once thats all over i can start traveling and doing stuff again.
One thing i did do to wind down was take on some charity work, but then after about 2 months they started assuming i was their employee and actually giving me more work to do and deadlines.  That got nipped in the bud and i kicked them to the kerb.

Right now if someone asked me, what do you do with the time.  I smile and say, whatever i feel like doing, at whatever time i feel like it.
And that is the most blissful part of it.
Dont regret it one bit.
And when i can get out and about, will be even better.


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## Wahaay

As soon as humanly possible Mrs Wahaay and I intend to drink ourselves around the world.
Summer in Ireland, Autumn in Greece, winter in Florida/Tenerife, spring in the Caribbean.
If you do your research right, register for deals on a few reliable websites and time it right( school term time ) there really are some very good bargains to be had.
And at the moment there are some cracking cruise deals on offer from an industry that's been at a standstill for a year.
We've just signed up to spend two weeks this Christmas on a cruise around Thailand and Vietnam - £2000 each for AI drinks,tips and BA flights.
Cruises fill me with dread but that's a steal.
We're also fortunate to own a second property in Ireland and we use this exclusively for home exchanges all over the world - a large number of like-minded retirees with holiday homes constitute a big chunk of the main websites catering for these.
We're also investigating house and pet-sitting in far-flung sunny locations and there are a couple of websites devoted to these too.
The idea of staying permanently in one place and ' pottering ' fills me with dread.
We both reckon I've got about 10 years before I'll have to slow down but who knows ? Might as well make hay etc etc.
My one tip is avoid other pensioners and cultivate younger friends.
There's nothing more dispiriting if you're a glass half full type of person to be among whiney old people.


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## ginslia

Any chance we could make this a key post, especially the early posts by @Leper , @Cervelo , @Laramie among others.  
I’d love to pick your brains further- did you have any issues accessing pension funds early (before normal retirement age of 65 or so)? Any other costs that you didn’t expect or plan for crop up in the first few years?


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## Cervelo

I'm afraid I can't answer your query re the accessing my pension early as it's not something I've done yet
I was lucky in sofar that I didn't need to access it as I had enough liquid cash to start our journey into early retirement
It was something that was discussed when setting up my financial portfolio with our FA but was decided to leave it alone for now and let it grow tax free and only access it only when needed or have to.

Having said that the portfolio that we did set up was set up with the view that the pension would be cashed in and added to it and then turned into our ARF, so for all intents I did have an ARF type fund but with out all the T&Cs and that did throw up something that I wasn't expecting.

Put quite simply the fund did not preform as expected and not just for one year but nearly all five years that the money was invested there
Had we being relying on the "ARF" as our only source of income I would expect at some stage later into our retirement we would have issues with drawdown percentages and longevity of the fund.

We have since cashed in that portfolio and invested ourselves in the market and are for all intents we're back on track with where our investments should be at this moment in time but it's not for the faint hearted and wouldn't recommend it unless you have a high tolerance to risk and a clear understanding of what can happen good or bad and are comfortable with either outcome.

On a side note but still relevant to this thread there is something that has happened to me subconsciously and helped me settle into retirement. And that is what motivates me, when I was working I was consumed with status and wealth etc etc while now all I'm interested in is personal goals and happiness. I think it's referred to as internal and external motivation and though both go hand in hand during the course of our lives I feel that in retirement one should be focusing more on the internal.


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## David_Dublin

Brilliant contributions. 

Any thoughts on avoiding dreaming about retirement too much when in your late 40's??!!

I'm loking forward to spending more time playing the sports & doing the activities I love. Also reading more, when I want to. Travelling, though I know I might have the same appetite for this when I am older. Going for a coffee with my wife when we want, or lunch, and then having a drink. If we feel like it! Keeping the garden clean is a great shout. And key one for me: remember to be kind and generous (time, thoughfulness, financial support if I can, in that order) to my kids. It's a good way to make them better parents when the time comes, but it should also give me joy and be part of their lives.

One thing for me would be key: have some sort of daily routine, get up/read paper/have breakfast at in or around the same time each day. Have a plan for the next day, a list for the week.


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## elcato

David_Dublin said:


> I'm loking forward to spending more time playing the sports & doing the activities I love.


Age is a barrier here though. Alas, I was thinking the same in my 40s and only from a hill walking perspective which I like. My last 'hike' was only 12 miles and I was strggling after 8. I made it but the legs are not what they used to be and I'm still under 60.


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## David_Dublin

elcato said:


> Age is a barrier here though. Alas, I was thinking the same in my 40s and only from a hill walking perspective which I like. My last 'hike' was only 12 miles and I was strggling after 8. I made it but the legs are not what they used to be and I'm still under 60.


Good shout, I'll take rugby off the list so 

But seriously, no reason why things like hill walking, golf, tennis, lawn bowls, cycling and many others can't be tailored to fitness levels as we age. I think it's probably key to begin while relatively fit to built up a group of friends to do these with. Ideally if your partner, if you have one/continue to have one, could share some of the interests with you, or wider family members.


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## Buddyboy

I used to dream about retirement in my 40s, but now I'm 55, I've had a change of heart.
During last year, as we weren't going anywhere on holidays, I used my annual leave to take every Friday off in June/July/August/September. In effect, going down to a 4 day week for the Summer. As my wife doesn't work on Fridays, this was ideal.  So, now my thoughts have turned to going down to a 4 day week, and further reducing it to a 3 day week, before eventually retiring.  Of course, that is if the employer is on board.

The ability to work from home was also a deciding factor.

I remember a friend who had retired once said, see what you do for the weekend, now imaging if that was 7 days a week. It's a lot of time to fill.

And finally, on funding retirement,  as we went nowhere, didn't eat out, and worked from home,  and used the credit card for 99% of transactions, it gave me an opportunity to see how much money we _actually _ need at a minimum to survive when retired.  It was a bit more than I had envisaged and, while I could reduce it and live more frugally, I wonder do I really want to?


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## OMG_OMG

Ive noticed we have spent hardly any money in the last year.
Not even as high as €1000 pm between us I think.  Nothing to spend it on apart from food and a bit of DIY  .
We arent a bit frugal and never have been.
We used to have expenses to go to work, get lunches, pub after work on a Friday etc.  Several insurances we didnt need.  Donations to bothar.  All gone now.
The big life expenses are all gone now.
Mortgage is gone now too.  That was part of the retirement plan (no retirement until mortgage was gone).
College fund put away and ring-fenced. 
House paid for, down to one car.  And it will do us at least 10 more years.
Insurances all cut down to just whats needed/
Next year though we will probably have a big budget for trips and holidays.
We invested €50k in equities and will use any money that makes every year as the holiday fund.
If it makes money we will use that money it made for holidays the next year.
If it makes nothing or a loss we will go on cheaper holidays the next year.  Though its off to a very good start and yet we can go on holidays.
Thats where i see most of our money going in future.  Holidays and weekends away


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## Cervelo

Buddyboy said:


> And finally, on funding retirement,  as we went nowhere, didn't eat out, and worked from home,  and used the credit card for 99% of transactions, it gave me an opportunity to see how much money we _actually _ need at a minimum to survive when retired.  It was a bit more than I had envisaged and, while I could reduce it and live more frugally, I wonder do I really want to?


I'm often asked how did I do it when people find out that I'm an early retiree
And I generally respond with asking the person three questions that I feel have to answered before a person can consider early retirement

1. How much does it actually cost you to live at the moment.
For me it's not good enough to say that I earn x amount per month and at the end of each month there is x left
I feel a person considering ER needs to know the Who, What, When and Where of every euro that they spend
This is not about criticising a persons spending habits but understanding how a person spends
What is essential spending, what is not and how each effects your total yearly spend

2. If you were to retire tomorrow how much do you need to live on
Based on the answers to the first question you should be able to a fairly accurate costing on how much you would need on a yearly basis

3. How are you going to fund your early retirement
And normally the conversation ends there, But if it doesn't that's when life gets interesting
As Confucius said  "Everyone has two lives, and the second one begins when you realize you have one"


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## elcato

Something that a lot of people forget to factor in is their medical insurance and susequent bills mostly because a lot have it included in their current pay (I know I did). As this may rise also with age initially it's worth a mention that you need to add about 2k to your annual spending for at least until the 70 bracket assuming all to stay the same.


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## David_Dublin

elcato said:


> Something that a lot of people forget to factor in is their medical insurance and susequent bills mostly because a lot have it included in their current pay (I know I did). As this may rise also with age initially it's worth a mention that you need to add about 2k to your annual spending for at least until the 70 bracket assuming all to stay the same.


Are they allowed to raise insurance based on you getting older?


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## elcato

David_Dublin said:


> Are they allowed to raise insurance based on you getting older?


Was thinking along the lines of needing more cover and more frequent use (there's usually excess).


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## michaelm

David_Dublin said:


> Are they allowed to raise insurance based on you getting older?


Nope, due to Community Rating https://www.hia.ie/regulation/community-rating-system

Some might want to move to a pricier policy when getting older though.


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## Sunny

time to plan said:


> He got himself a girlfriend, and had a great time. When we cleared out his house after he died, he had condoms in his bedside table, not a full pack and well in date.



What age was the girlfriend that your over 80 year old grandfather got himself where he was worried about safe sex??! I guess STI's can be an issue at any age but how much fun are these people having at that age!!

Sorry to hijack a very good thread but just had to ask!


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## ginslia

@elcato good point on expenses included in current pay and benefits, not just medical, but any membership fees or mobile phones and latest gadget upgrades, even voluntary PRSI if relevant.
@Cervelo these are great questions, I’m still working on the third one! in fact it should probably be a separate AAM question to see if my plan will work as I would like.


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## almostthere

I am awake and up before 7 a.m.  Both myself and my wife log on to the internet and read all that interests us. We have a second breakfast at about 9.30 a.m.
If it's a sunny day then out in to the garden. Lots of small jobs, take our time. If it is a wet day I find a few chores to do in the house. Thin out some paperwork, tidy a drawer, paint a door, clean the inside of a window.....sometimes it takes me a week to clean all the windows in our home.
Early lunch, back out in to the garden.....however I find that I don't really have a second wind for afternoon work.

Some days a visit to the park or supermarket or garden centre.  Log on to the internet in the early afternoon...see any updates.

We watch a fair bit of TV. Programmes like "Bargain Brits Abroad."  Lots of people living in mobile homes in Spain on about €10k per annum. Other programmes like "A New Life in The Sun", The Amazing Race plus lots of Walter Presents type shows....

We spend very little. Cook from scratch with a take out type meal once a week or restaurant visit when allowed.

Plan holidays both in Ireland and abroad. 

Very simple life really.


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## time to plan

Sunny said:


> What age was the girlfriend that your over 80 year old grandfather got himself where he was worried about safe sex??! I guess STI's can be an issue at any age but how much fun are these people having at that age!!
> 
> Sorry to hijack a very good thread but just had to ask!


She was 80 too. But at the time the UK government was pumping out terrifying AIDS TV commercials.


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## Early Riser

For some reason this is reminding me of our then Taoiseach, Jack Lynch, saying that he was not going to put contraception on the long finger.


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## RedmondC

Oh I love reading these reply’s. I was off work for five months last year and it was the happiest of my life. I was like “so this is what retirement is like”. Wonderful. I’m 55 and can’t wait to press the button to retire. I know this is not a money makeover thread but I found 1.5k a month more than plenty. I have pension pot of 450k and 300k cash with no mortgage and house worth 280k . I’m now examining sunnier climate and can I live on this until state pension. Love reading your plans and good thread.


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## Gordon Gekko

I just read the thread and found it fascinating. My own plan is to go at age 60, to do a four day week at age 58 and a three day week at age 59.

My wife’s defined benefit pension will kick in at age 60 so she’s planning to go at age 60 which should work nicely.

Our plan, touch wood, is to travel a lot but to spend a decent chunk of the year in Portugal. I’d like to work 1 or 2 days a week on and off, maybe half for free in the charity/not for profit space and half getting paid, maybe some lecturing/teaching for example.

Health is the big variable though. You never quite know what’s coming, but the two of us are doing our best. Financially, we’re setting aside as much as we can but we’re also investing heavily in our health and fit-ness.


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## Early Riser

Retired here as well and loving it.

My advice would be not to take any advice too seriously. Especially prescriptive advice. You have to find your own way. And even if/when you find it, you have to have the will to follow it. There will be lots of prompts and right through to expectations from others as to what your retirement should look like and how you should follow it. Most of it is well-meaning, some of it self-serving and probably some envious.

Some of you may remember the questions from your younger days that reflected social pressure (however well-intentioned or good natured) - "When are you going to settle down?", "When is the big day?" "Have you bought a house yet?", etc, etc. I suggest that you be prepared for the same in retirement (different questions of course- but often loaded with expectations). This is not without end, of course, but you need to hold your nerve and steer your own course (or joint course) at the outset. There is no right way in retirement - just a right way for you.


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## noproblem

My wife and yours truly got our 1st vaccine today. Feel great, had a lovely dinner at home and bought 2 Supermac's Swirly's with buttons for desert, we both really enjoyed them. Tomorrow is promised a lovely day and it's out intention to go for an early walk before breakfast, then head off to one of the beaches on Achill Island for the day. Will bring some fruit, queen cakes from Aldi and 2 nice freshly made bread roll sandwiches that we'll get on the way in a Super-Value. Sweet dreams everyone and hope tomorrow's a good one for "YALL"


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## almostthere

Monday morning here in Dublin. Been up since 7 a.m.  Had a light breakfast, we will have our second breakfast in about a half hour. Been on the internet looking at places to visit in Spain when things improve. Looked at a few hotels and a plan is forming. Browsed a few other sites.

We will potter in the garden today. We had a long walk yesterday so today we will take it easier. We have a vegetable garden....I will plant out some spinach, chard and beetroot and my good wife will look after some tomato plants that are being hardened off. Maybe cut the grass. The sun is showing up the dust in the house so a bit of hoovering is needed.

A home made lunch after a morning's pottering is planned.

Beautiful sunny day. We were both vaccinated last week. The side effects are almost gone, just a bit of soreness in the arm. Feeling a bit more confident now.

Maybe visit a garden centre tomorrow, grab a takeout coffee or lunch, have a walk. Rain due later on in the week so I will leave any paperwork for that day.


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## Cervelo

I love this idea of the second breakfast. Been doing it for most my life now, started in work with the first breakfast just after opening up the factory at 6 am and then the second around 10 when the production staff had theirs and has continued on until now
My lovely wife refers to this as my Hobbit lifestyle along with my Hobbit feet, hands and other hobbit likenesses that she can find 
But what my lovely wife forgets is that because she's a night owl and sleeps long into the morning compared to me is that she herself resembles Smaug in more ways then one and when I have to venture upstairs while she is sleeping I do wish I had the ring, the one ring to rule them all.

Now as others have said lovely day out there, so I'm off on a long cycle, enjoy what ever your up to.


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## Leper

With the restriction regarding inter county travel lifted we travelled to a Co Waterford village (a kind of Irish spiritual home for us). I had the misfortune to meet a man who worked as a professional next door to where I worked and I hadn't seen him in years. His wife was with him. We're into our 4th year of retirement and many people we meet of our age have retired too. 

I asked my professional "friend" if he were enjoying his retirement. You'd swear that I had called him something offensive with his reaction. "Sure what would I be doing retiring . . . ? " he shouted and was clearly hurt with what I asked. He launched into a tirade that he was running his life his way etc. His wife was visibly concerned about her husband's words and plucked up the courage to say "Lep is only being friendly." Mrs Lep was taken aback too. But, he was right, retiring is a decision arrived at by him together with his wife (she is long retired).

I think inadvertently, I hit a nerve and perhaps I should not have started the conversation like I did? - I apologised on the spot.


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## Slim

That's hilarious, Lep! Some people need very little to take offence at. I think you hit a nerve alright!


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## SPC100

Sounds like something was going on there. Maybe a bad day? Maybe he didn't have the finances to retire yet? Or maybe he dislikes some of the negative connotations of the word retirement/being described as retired? Or maybe he really doesn't/didn't want to retire?


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## Leper

Life is strange and long may it last as I head into my 70's. The differing viewpoints here are an enlightenment and to be ignored at one's peril.

You are going to find this strange:- You have to work at being successfully retired.

I'm not talking money; I take it for granted that most would have made  efforts getting some finances in order before retiring. The biggest lie in Ireland is "Some day Dad, I'll pay you back . . . " which is eventually challenged by Dad "When we retire, we'll do this, that, t'other . . ."

When you retire, at least do some of the things you said you'd do. Let's not get caught up in lies that will shorten your life. How many people took the golden handshake, went home, sat around wondering what's happening and generally I'll do the same tomorrow and the day after and so on forever. This is fast track to changing your wife into a widow.

If you said you're going to go on a cruise, then do it. The cruise company is not going to contact you; you have to contact it. You promised your wife you'd spend a few months in Spain taking in the sunshine ,markets, cheaper lifestyle, more relaxed lifestyle, but you won't lift the phone to make an enquiry and if your wife does it, you're moaning too. In this, the Brits are way ahead of us. They retire early and spend winter/spring in Spain and Portugal and return to the UK for the summer. It's called living and it's cheaper than you think.


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## SPC100

Carpe diem and bias for action.

Useful tenets to live your life by regardless of age, employment and financial status.


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## Rasputin

Leper said:


> November to April you can rent a good 2 bedroom apartment in Spain/Portugal/Italy/Greece for less than €750 per month inclusive of utilities etc. You can get rentals for less also, but stick with good locations and resorts that suit you. Unlike Laramie above the time for a glass of something in Spain is 1.45pm just before siesta.


Hi Leper,  what are the best websites to look at to get good 3-6 month rentals in those countries. Had my mind set towards trying to buy a place in France / Portugal over the coming years, but reading that, if you could get a decent place for 750 a month, it might make more sense to just rent and go somewhere different every year.  Thinking about it, that sounds a lot more appealing to me than going to the same place every year.


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## Leper

If you google any estate agents in whatever area you wish to rent, they'll give you loads of information and prices. DoneDeal is a good website too especially if you wish to contact mainly Irish holiday home owners abroad. Word-of-mouth recommendations are usually best, particularly if you know the person offering the advice.


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## Cervelo

AirBnB is another good place to look especially if your intending to travel during the winter season
I presume its the same in France and Portugal as it is in Spain that most of these places are booked solid during the summer season
but during their winter season the bookings are infrequent and the owners are more open to doing deals for longer stays such as 3 to 6 months


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## Spud50

im 54 this year and im going to retire end of next year , no mortgage , car loan nearly paid off and 1 of 2 kids thru college , im going to live off savings from equities sales for the first 4 or 5 years ( i hated paying the CGT) before drawing down my pension, in my spare time i  learn a bit of spanish, bit of Electric Guitar and a bit of stocks and shares and reading bout share trading , bit of swimming and restoring the odd vintage motorcycle and drinking the odd glass of wine so i should have enough with that lot. The wife and i intend to head to the sun afew times a year with a view to spending 3 months there once we find somewhere in spain we want to keep going back to. fingers crossed ! and the replies here are great and very encouraging


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## IsleOfMan

We have been playing with the idea of downsizing our house or rightsizing as I see it is now called. We get so far discussing this, then exhausted at the work involved we change the subject. Then we come back to the topic again.

Our home is far to big for us. Five bedrooms, one in use and one sometimes used. Too many reception rooms. Manageable garden but after 30 years of maintaining it, each year seems a repeat of the previous year.

Enough cash to see us through. Thrifty people. House in Blackrock, Dublin.

We love the area, also the road our house is on. Plenty of trees, green space etc. Short stroll to DART, short stroll to N11. Well serviced by transport and supermarkets.

Our house needs attention. I reckon we could spend up to €100k on new windows, kitchen, bathroom update, carpets, curtains, heating, painting etc.  But do we need to update rooms that we don't use?   My own parents ended up only using a few rooms in their house and the rest of the rooms became junk storage rooms. We don't want this to happen......but we can see it starting.

We enjoy our holidays. Reading Leper and Cervelo's travel experiences made us consider spending longer winters abroad and just closing the door on our house and hope that it would be OK when we came back. We do have children local to us that could keep an eye on it while away. Then Covid came along and that thought has been put on the back boiler for the moment.

I am not sure that we could live in an apartment. If we could find a decent site in the area we would consider building a two bed, with one large kitchen/diner/living room. But we don't know if there are any available in the area. We may manage buying the site but would run short on funds to fully build the house.

Has anyone been through the rightsizing experience and could give us an insight?


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## DublinHead54

IsleOfMan said:


> We have been playing with the idea of downsizing our house or rightsizing as I see it is now called. We get so far discussing this, then exhausted at the work involved we change the subject. Then we come back to the topic again.
> 
> Our home is far to big for us. Five bedrooms, one in use and one sometimes used. Too many reception rooms. Manageable garden but after 30 years of maintaining it, each year seems a repeat of the previous year.
> 
> Enough cash to see us through. Thrifty people. House in Blackrock, Dublin.
> 
> We love the area, also the road our house is on. Plenty of trees, green space etc. Short stroll to DART, short stroll to N11. Well serviced by transport and supermarkets.
> 
> Our house needs attention. I reckon we could spend up to €100k on new windows, kitchen, bathroom update, carpets, curtains, heating, painting etc.  But do we need to update rooms that we don't use?   My own parents ended up only using a few rooms in their house and the rest of the rooms became junk storage rooms. We don't want this to happen......but we can see it starting.
> 
> We enjoy our holidays. Reading Leper and Cervelo's travel experiences made us consider spending longer winters abroad and just closing the door on our house and hope that it would be OK when we came back. We do have children local to us that could keep an eye on it while away. Then Covid came along and that thought has been put on the back boiler for the moment.
> 
> I am not sure that we could live in an apartment. If we could find a decent site in the area we would consider building a two bed, with one large kitchen/diner/living room. But we don't know if there are any available in the area. We may manage buying the site but would run short on funds to fully build the house.
> 
> Has anyone been through the rightsizing experience and could give us an insight?



How big is your garden? You could consider building in the garden if the plot is big enough / shaped right.


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## Thirsty

@IsleOfMan - would it be an option to carve out a couple of rooms downstairs into an apartment? Would some of your adult children take over the main house & garden? (If you don't already have one , get an automower!).


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## Leper

After Retirement - Downsizing - No Bloody Way! - We've put enough into our house over the years - our neighbours are good - the gardens are what we wish them to be  - Bus Stop nearby (we have free travel) - We know every inch of the area - We ain't movin' except to Spain for the Winter/Spring.

And the last thing we need is our kids to start building a house out the back.

And no friggin' Life Loan either - (My Ronaldo Moment as I clear the table of products I don't use) - And if Spry or any other financial institution want me to advertise their wares they can pay me up front.


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## Monbretia

My uncle did that, sold the bigger house and built smaller one in side garden, great idea if it works for you, no change of location.

My aunt on the other hand had to upsize when her 6 children had all left home because as they started coming home with families to visit she didn't have enough room in old small house    Not a problem of course if children live locally but most of hers were far from home.

I won't be downsizing, house isn't massive but I have it just as I want it now especially the garden, kitchen just being redone too and I also find I need the space for visiting grandkids!


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## Buddyboy

I won't be downsizing either, for a good few years. And, IsleofMan, if you want to head to the mainland for a month or two, like we want to, then consider house swaps.  There are some reputable web sites that take the risk out of it. And it means your house isn't left idle.


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## LondonIrish

IsleOfMan said:


> We have been playing with the idea of downsizing our house or rightsizing as I see it is now called. We get so far discussing this, then exhausted at the work involved we change the subject. Then we come back to the topic again.


I'm surprised at how many negative responses you got. My folks downsized to a large 3-bed appartment almost 20 years ago and it was one of the best things they ever did. My observations on their experience...

My old man is a doctor and was used to seeing increasingly immobile patients of his confined to limited parts of their houses (usually the ground floor) and wanted to avoid this for himself and my mum. They purposefully chose a block with a lift so accessibility would not be an issue. My dad is now in his mid-80s and stairs are difficult for him so this was a great decision in hindsight - if they had not moved in their 60s they would have to move now anyway as the original family home would have been completely unsuitable.

Appartments with lifts come with larger management fees but then maintaining a suburban house and garden is not cheap either (and I see you are considering renovations). Note also that most modern appts are a lot chaper to run vs a traditional family home - energy costs were not a major consideration for my parents at the time but their appartment is a lot warmer than the old family home which is something to think about given the length of the Irish winter.

Enhanced security - my folks live in a gated development that feels very secure. Moreover, they feel confident about locking their door and going away for 3 months at a time.

Community - this is not what many people think about when you mention an appartment complex but do your homework here. My folks bought in a development that appealed more to older people than younger and because of it's location  (a Dublin suburb) quite a few downsizers bought when they did too and it remains a sought after development for those selling family homes in the area. They are surrounded by friends and this was a huge advantage especially during Covid. People came out on their balconies for evening drinks and felt safe meeting outside in the grounds of the development. Compared to many of their friends they felt very lucky to have had some form of social contact during this horrible time. I would also add that suburbs change as older residents die off and younger families move back in so you may want to consider how much you will have in common with your neighbours as you grow older.

Help on hand - Many developments will have a handyman or similar on hand for small jobs and lots of residents in my parent's development use their guy for regular oddjobs around their home; especially those jobs that people in their 80s are reluctant to do such as changing lightbulbs in tall ceilings and moving heavy furniture.

To be honest, myself and my wife plan to do similar within the next 10 years (we are in our late 40s). I don't think that downsizing is for everyone but in terms of how I hope to live my life in from my late-50s onwards it makes sense to me. I know quite a few older couples who would be horrified at the thought of doing this but I look at them rattling around cold and draughty houses and wonder why not.


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## misemoi

I am absolutely rightsizing when it comes to it.  I had many happy years in apartments and I intended to return to the same as we age.  Also I believe selling and clearing a house and moving would need to be done once everyone is relatively fit and healthy so I will be building it into the long term plan.  Now whether this will be following our kids to Australia or just down the road, who knows!


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## nest egg

LondonIrish said:


> I'm surprised at how many negative responses you got. My folks downsized to a large 3-bed appartment almost 20 years ago and it was one of the best things they ever did. My observations on their experience...
> 
> My old man is a doctor and was used to seeing increasingly immobile patients of his confined to limited parts of their houses (usually the ground floor) and wanted to avoid this for himself and my mum. They purposefully chose a block with a lift so accessibility would not be an issue. My dad is now in his mid-80s and stairs are difficult for him so this was a great decision in hindsight - if they had not moved in their 60s they would have to move now anyway as the original family home would have been completely unsuitable.
> 
> Appartments with lifts come with larger management fees but then maintaining a suburban house and garden is not cheap either (and I see you are considering renovations). Note also that most modern appts are a lot chaper to run vs a traditional family home - energy costs were not a major consideration for my parents at the time but their appartment is a lot warmer than the old family home which is something to think about given the length of the Irish winter.
> 
> Enhanced security - my folks live in a gated development that feels very secure. Moreover, they feel confident about locking their door and going away for 3 months at a time.
> 
> Community - this is not what many people think about when you mention an appartment complex but do your homework here. My folks bought in a development that appealed more to older people than younger and because of it's location  (a Dublin suburb) quite a few downsizers bought when they did too and it remains a sought after development for those selling family homes in the area. They are surrounded by friends and this was a huge advantage especially during Covid. People came out on their balconies for evening drinks and felt safe meeting outside in the grounds of the development. Compared to many of their friends they felt very lucky to have had some form of social contact during this horrible time. I would also add that suburbs change as older residents die off and younger families move back in so you may want to consider how much you will have in common with your neighbours as you grow older.
> 
> Help on hand - Many developments will have a handyman or similar on hand for small jobs and lots of residents in my parent's development use their guy for regular oddjobs around their home; especially those jobs that people in their 80s are reluctant to do such as changing lightbulbs in tall ceilings and moving heavy furniture.
> 
> To be honest, myself and my wife plan to do similar within the next 10 years (we are in our late 40s). I don't think that downsizing is for everyone but in terms of how I hope to live my life in from my late-50s onwards it makes sense to me. I know quite a few older couples who would be horrified at the thought of doing this but I look at them rattling around cold and draughty houses and wonder why not.



I think your folks were spot on. I can see it with my own parents, they don't use half the space they have, and cleaning, maintaining the size of house they own, the garden etc, I can see it getting very hard for them in the coming years. An apartment, in the same locality, would make their lives a lot easier, while keeping the familiarity with the area, and avoid needing to move away from their friends. Alas, my Dad in particular is set in his ways, and sees apartment living as only something young people do, a step "down" from their house which he is rightly proud of. There's an expression about pride which keeps coming to mind...

I lived in Switzerland for several years where you start in an apartment, move out to the suburbs for the space to raise a family, and then come back to an apartment near all the services you need, later in life. I think it's a great model, and plan to do similar once our own kids have flown the nest. To each their own, as they say.


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## LondonIrish

A financial advisor friend of mine once told me that unless you have downsized by your mid to late 60s you are unlikely to do so until perhaps circumstances force you to. I can see how as you get older (and this is a big generalisation) any major change is daunting. I know older relatives who have considered about downsizing but the thought of clearing out their homes and moving is such a daunting undertaking that it never moves beyond the discussion stage.

One more thing to bear in mind is that once the kids are gone you are most likely only really using a fraction of the floor space of your house for living in so downsizing is simply recognising this fact. But as Mojoask says, each to their own.


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## David_Dublin

Really interesting discussion. We have 12 and 14 year olds, we're mid 40s. About to do a big job to the house. It's a great house as is, but need a bigger kitchen/utility, another bathroom, and ideally a snug/games room for kids. We love the area and have some great neighbours.

The big job gives us everything we need, but looks like being 300k+. It's our forever home , but based on the above "forever" is now understood to be to mid sixties. Kids will probably be here another 10 years, maybe 20 with college, saving for deposits etc. 

At €300k+ I'm continually looking at whether we're mad to do it. I'm not too worried about making our money back, and I think we'll get huge enjoyment out of the additional space and usability. Plus we have to re-wire and insulate, change windows, so a job needs to be done. But it's also good to have this longer plan of moving in mid-sixties to smaller/more appropriate accommodation in mind. If I moved to an apartment I would definitely want it to have outside shared green space. @LondonIrish your parents' setup sounds perfect.


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## k06351000

Finding the conversation about downsizing very interesting, I’m at the other end of the retirement spectrum and have just built a new house, Ideally this would be our home for life but this conversation is very relevant- will we be able/want to look after a house and garden as we get older. 

I’m hopeful of avoiding some of the issues here, while the house is quite big a lot of it is an open plan living/kitchen/dining area so we shouldn’t end up with the problem of unused empty rooms. While all the bedrooms are upstairs there is a downstairs office/tv room which is designed to be used as a bedroom in later life,


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## LondonIrish

One thing that myself and my wife are considering is the equity release (hopefully) that comes from selling the family home. Ideally, we will have cash spare to help each of our two kids buy their own place. We live in the London (as my name suggests) and we can give up to £325k to each child tax free as long as we live for 7 years after this so this is a factor in my thinking. From what little I know of Irish inheritance & gift rules there is a lifteime limit of €335k whereas in the UK limit resets every 7 years.


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## SPC100

I see limited options to downsize but stay very close to 'your steet'. I agree that it would make sense to downsize early when you are still able to freely socialise and can become connected in your new community.

I think most would prefer to stay on their same street. Many worry about what will happen when their parents age, or when they age. Many worry if their kids will be able to buy in their area. Most would prefer their children to live nearby.

I see several folks designing their refurbishment to help solve some of this, e.g. create a seperate "apartment" inside the main house. The seperate "aparment" has a few potential use cases:  
-aged parent 
-a child/family member lives their (and even start a family there)
-a carer could live in it
-they move in themselves when main house is too big, and a child (or tenant ) take over the main house
-tenant

I thought it was an interesting idea, although I guess it compromises on privacy, and might compromose some of the house design, e.g. access to sun, garden etc.,


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## noproblem

This downsizing question deserves a forum of its own. I'm in the late 60 bracket and live with Mrs Noproblem. Our 2 children are grown up, both living in Ireland thank God and 3 children each. They visit almost every weekend, sometimes for a good stay if work permits, we mind grandkids if problems arise, sick, etc. They both live away, one in Dublin city, other in Galway. Right now and for another few years, when they come to us our house needs to be as big as it is, but I'm beginning to see the time we won't need this house. Neither of our children are ever going to live where we do now and for lots of reasons we could move nearer to one of them. We've already discussed it, and my daughter wants us to move to Galway city, beside her family and in fairness it makes a lot of sense. Thing is, in 10 years time the eldest grandchild will be 18 years, but we'll both be almost eighty. Certainly not the time for moving and I can imagine we're one of many thousands. 
I must say this is a very good topic.


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## Cervelo

IsleOfMan said:


> We have been playing with the idea of downsizing our house or rightsizing as I see it is now called. We get so far discussing this, then exhausted at the work involved we change the subject. Then we come back to the topic again.


What a great topic and one that I believe should be discussed at some level before retirement or shortly after.
For us when we have this conversation, which happens at least a few times a year its more about equity release than downsizing
We live in a 3 bed semi D in Blackrock with a value closing in on three quarters of a million of "What if wealth"
Downsizing for us to a two bed in the Blackrock area would in our opinion require to many concessions and probably wouldn't free up more than a quarter of the equity, another option is to sell up completely and move down the country or even move country to a warmer climate
and while that idea is appealing to me now I know once we sell up and move the reality is that we will never live or own property in Dublin again.
But it's nice to have a pipe dream


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## Monbretia

Even though I have said I won't be leaving my house anytime soon I could also forsee a time when I might contemplate moving nearer my daughter who is 3 hours away, ok distance when I am happy driving but a time may come when I won't fancy that sort of run.  Even though by then I'd have a free pass if they still exist the public transport routes would make it a much longer indirect trip.


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## Leper

When retiring you downsize; it's permanent. You move to a smaller property and there's no moving back to your original property. For us the risk is too much and the variables are unthinkable.  I'm staying put and at this stage of life I can do without the stress.


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## NotMyRealName

My Observation.......
Contrary to learned opinion..... Don't buy the biggest house you can afford.....buy the smallest house you can get away with.....later in life no worries about downsizing   
Great discussion , this one....


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## Gordon Gekko

I can see both arguments in the downsizing debate.

I listen to friends moaning about their parents’ intransigence around moving to a more suitable property.

But then I see ourselves and the work we’ve done on our home and on the garden. All that time, all that effort, all that expense. All of the memories that have been accumulated here and will hopefully be accumulated in the coming years. It’s more likely to make me never want to sell up. I don’t ever want to live in an apartment again. I don’t ever want to live in a small semi-d.

All of the above just emphasises the importance of health and wellbeing. I know plenty of people in their late 80s and even early 90s who are still driving and still playing golf or exercising. My own focus is pivoting in that direction, i.e. health, health screning, exercise, wellbeing, and ensuring that I never allow myself to feel old. Yes a proverbial earthquake can strike, but you can always mitigate risk.


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## Firefly

Fantastic thread this...super contributions & really enjoying it. 

It's refreshing to hear of light at the end of the tunnel for someone _in-the-middle-of-it_ in their mid 40s. Retirement is a bit off yet, but this thread has put it on the radar for sure. 

Firefly


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## David_Dublin

Firefly said:


> Fantastic thread this...super contributions & really enjoying it.
> 
> It's refreshing to hear of light at the end of the tunnel for someone _in-the-middle-of-it_ in their mid 40s. Retirement is a bit off yet, but this thread has put it on the radar for sure.
> 
> Firefly


It's like a life line for me too. I'm in late forties now. I'm not overly focused on retirement but find it a bit of a comfort that work life won't always be the main thing, and that some prudence I displayed in my 30s/40s will hopefully provide for a reasonably comfortable lifestyle in the future. I think I've a pretty anxious disposition, or always feeling things will go pear shaped at some stage. Maybe quite an Irish approach to life?


----------



## sharkattack

I have a work colleague who when he came to Ireland first and drove around and seeing all these big houses and gardens and his first thought was these people must be slaves to their homes.  He was so used to living in maintenance free Apartment living.  I have to agree with him.   When you get older its gets harder and harder to maintain these large dwellings...


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## LondonIrish

The choice is not always large family home vs appartment. There's lots of space in between. 

My inlaws never downsized and are still living in the original family home. It is a poorly insulated 70s build suburban home that is really cold in the winter. They only heat the rooms they occupy and have become used to wearing 2-3 layers of clothing inside during cold snaps. To me this seems like a meagre and depressing retirement but they have a big garden that they like to potter about in and seem quite content.

For me downsizing will be a liftstyle choice, not just preparation for for my inevitable physical decline. Myself and my wife want to take long trips abroad as well as spending the worst of the winter somewhere warmer so I just don't want the hassle of maintaining a house that I am not living in that much. Of course, at this stage these are just plans and life is not predictable.


----------



## Truffade

Re the downsizing debate (which is a great one), I wonder if there is a potential variable that might change the 'stay or downsize' equation for many Empty Nesters; that is of course a proper implementation of the Local Property Tax.
If that tax bill went up by 400/500% (which you could quite easily make an argument it should), would that mean that a lot of retirees could\should consider downsizing? It would also mean more efficient use of housing stock, which should of course be a goal we all aspire to.

Just a thought and probably a purely rhetorical question....


----------



## David_Dublin

We live in a south Dublin, very much town living near our local "village". We love it here. I'd definitely accept or look forward to downsizing, at the appropriate time, to an apartment. The trigger might be the right time and releasing equity to help kids buy their first proper home. But I would only move to somewhere near here, near my friends and the sports I'll continue to play/support. I'd need to be near to shops and coffee shops, pubs, people. Ideally near kids & grand kids, but they will be busy with their own lives, and will make their own decisions.

We love the idea of travelling too, but I accept a point once made to me - while that sounds good now, there is probably a short-ish finite term (maybe 15 years?) between retirement and older age when we will still have the appetite and wherewithall to travel. Even if only back to the same place each year, supported by houseswap or AirBnB or whatever. When properly old, apartment living somewhere central sounds pretty good to me, as long as we have a nice balcony!


----------



## Leper

Truffade said:


> Re the downsizing debate (which is a great one), I wonder if there is a potential variable that might change the 'stay or downsize' equation for many Empty Nesters; that is of course a proper implementation of the Local Property Tax.
> If that tax bill went up by 400/500% (which you could quite easily make an argument it should), would that mean that a lot of retirees could\should consider downsizing? It would also mean more efficient use of housing stock, which should of course be a goal we all aspire to.
> 
> Just a thought and probably a purely rhetorical question....


I'm just imagining the member of whatever political party came up with increasing Local Property Tax by up to 500% for elderly people who invested in their future by buying their house and maintaining it to a high standard knocking on our door for a vote. We could have joined the masses who spent everything they earned or were awarded on excess use of alcohol, gambling etc and got somebody else to house us. It's time somebody did something about them.


----------



## Sarenco

The reductions in stamp duty from 2017(?) made downsizing a realistic option for many empty nesters.  It's not that long ago when the top rate of stamp duty was 9%, which was a significant disincentive to downsizing.

I actually know quite a number of empty nesters that have downsized in recent years, to the point that I would say it's a definite trend.

I have often heard downsizers comment that they found the process of paring back their "stuff" strangely cathartic.  I've certainly never heard any downsizers express any regret about their move.


----------



## Buddyboy

My own eventual downsizing plans will be tempered by Mrs. Buddyboy. I notice that myself and any of my friends own have moved houses a few times or have worked abroad, view houses as "bricks and mortar" and are quite happy to move. My wife however has only lived in her parents house (which she was born in and they still live in), and our two houses (i.e. first purchased and then sold for current house).. She is far less likely to move/downsize etc.  It will be a discussion I am not looking forwards to as we have very different ideas of what we find nice/convenient/ comfortable.

Maybe if she starts cutting the grass in our 60s she will change her tune.


----------



## Thirsty

@Buddyboy - buy an automower!


----------



## kinnjohn

Now Leper stop that,
 Don't Awaken the dogs in the manger from its slumber or it will start barking,
 we know it has no bite and will not be given one anytime soon,


----------



## phoenix53

I always thought a "granny flat" attached to our house would be a lovely idea.  Stay in the same area close to friends and family and have one of the kids take over the main house.  That was until recently where there have been 2 cases I'm aware of where this exact scenario happened  but the kiddo and their partner split and the partner wanted their share of the property.  Total upheaval.  Whole house including granny flats had to be sold.  Nightmare for all involved.  Won't be doing that.  They can have whatever is left once I kick the bucket.  Hanging on to my independence for as long as i can.


----------



## becky

NotMyRealName said:


> My Observation.......
> Contrary to learned opinion..... Don't buy the biggest house you can afford.....buy the smallest house you can get away with.....later in life no worries about downsizing
> Great discussion , this one....


Excellent observation. 100 per cent agree.


----------



## Cervelo

phoenix53 said:


> I always thought a "granny flat" attached to our house would be a lovely idea.......


Have to agree with you here, up until recently I have thought that this was a great idea and any of the ones I knew about all seemed to be working out good for all parties concerned but two of them went south with devastating results for all parties
One was like yours where the young couple split up and the other was the the parents splitting up after it was discovered there was a third wheel in their relationship.
My advice to anyone thinking about this would be to have an open and frank discussion about what is going to be involved/expected in this type of an arrangement and some kind of legal framework agreed to should the situation go south 



Sarenco said:


> I have often heard downsizers comment that they found the process of paring back their "stuff" strangely cathartic.


Downsizing is not really on the cards for us but a couple of years ago I went to the "Bank of Cervelo" otherwise known as Mrs Cervelo about releasing some funds to buy two new bikes. And she said grand but we're going to start something and that was decluttering the house.
Like most people and couples our house is stuffed full of stuff that we've both collected through out our lives and for one reason or another are now just gathering dust in some corner of the house or box in the attic, 
so we decided to sell and declutter our house and lives of all the stuff that is no longer needed or relevant to us now.
Obviously there is money in watches and jewellery and other items but what has really surprised me is the money that can be made from the
stuff that you think is junk and you have no further use for like Delph, out of date electronics, even sold a broken tv that couldn't be repaired for a couple of hundred euro.
But it's not just about the money the whole process I have also found cathartic and strangely liberating, tis amazing the amount of crap that we surround ourselves with!!


----------



## David_Dublin

NotMyRealName said:


> My Observation.......
> Contrary to learned opinion..... Don't buy the biggest house you can afford.....buy the smallest house you can get away with.....later in life no worries about downsizing
> Great discussion , this one....



Interesting. I don't agree at all. Or maybe it depends on "can get away with".

I think key to living harmoniously with family is having space where you can retreat to. But maybe that reflects badly one me. I like the idea of kids having a room to game in or have friends over to hang out in, while parents have a separate spot to watch telly/read etc. Or one parent to be able to close a door to listen to music, and the other parent to have friends over for a bite to eat or a drink and chat, while the kids are in their own space shouting at the computer games.

I think having three "living areas" is about right for us, family of 4, teenage kids. I don't think that sounds like your idea of "the smallest house you can get away with". And, when older, I'd be happy with all those spaces. Maybe use them less, but having a bigger/sunnier sitting room and separate smaller snug (ex games room), plus a generous kitchen dining to be is appealing, at the moment anyway.

(Context re yesterday's view that downsizing to apartment with nice balcony is appealing, to today looking forward to staying put and having lots of space: conversation with herself, where she set me straight....we're never moving, apparently).


----------



## Leper

Light Music, Slow with a hold on percussion instruments

Leper's Rightsizing Case Study No1:-  (Empty Nester) We have Rightsizing on our road and Bigtime! Some years ago some of our neighbours sold out in Dublin and availed of the Emigrate to Cork Scheme to where their government department was relocated and each purchased what was the equivalent of their Dublin homes, but with much bigger gardens. If there was ever a case for "Rightsizing" this was it. Each participant came out the other end with an amount of a decent Lotto win and without buying a Lotto ticket. Well done to all involved and none of them will ever see a poor day again.

Dramatic Music, Speeding up with percussion given progressive free rein (or is it free reign?)

Leper's Rightsizing Case Study No2:- (Empty Nester) Another neighbour (He-Man, Climbs Carrauntwohill as a jogging exercise, Swims in sea all year round and alone, Cycles when he is not walking and Mrs He-Man uses the car even if she's visiting a shop 50 yards distant. They sell their house and move into a mobile home while building their permanent dream home in the Sticks overlooking the sea. You'd kill for the view and pay a fortune to rent the place for a fortnight during the summer. Are they happy? Noooooooo! The house is so isolated Mrs He-Man is terrified staying in the house alone especially when Mr He-Man of off scaling K2 or camping out for several days on the Wicklow Mountains. Result:- Mr He-Man no longer leaves the comfort of his isolated home except to go to work.

Music Stops - Experience the Silence.

The Moral of Both Stories:- Only sell when you are going to gain a fortune; anything else is a loss. 

Note:- Both stories are true and names and identity issues were changed to protect the naivete of those involved.


----------



## Buddyboy

An Old boss of mine said, when you're older, live where you can walk to the shops, pub, chemist and doctor/hospital.  
Wise words.


----------



## Firefly

Buddyboy said:


> An Old boss of mine said, when you're older, live where you can walk to the shops, pub, chemist and doctor/hospital.
> Wise words.


And near a bus stop...


----------



## Early Riser

Buddyboy said:


> An Old boss of mine said, when you're older, live where you can walk to the shops, pub, chemist and doctor/hospital.
> Wise words.


 But not too near the graveyard?


----------



## Cervelo

Early Riser said:


> But not too near the graveyard?


Ahh, somebody had to go and mention the final step in "downsizing"


----------



## Early Riser

Cervelo said:


> Ahh, somebody had to go and mention the final step in "downsizing"


 An equity release scheme?


----------



## Leper

Early Riser said:


> An equity release scheme?


 . . . . you mean get one after you've died? - Brilliant!

. . . . and I'm sure your undertaker will process it for you; he'd be the last to let you down.


----------



## NotMyRealName

Buddyboy said:


> An Old boss of mine said, when you're older, live where you can walk to the shops, pub, chemist and doctor/hospital.
> Wise words.


@Buddyboy...... I've no recollection of you on my staff


----------



## Firefly

David_Dublin said:


> Really interesting discussion. We have 12 and 14 year olds, we're mid 40s. About to do a big job to the house. It's a great house as is, but need a bigger kitchen/utility, another bathroom, and ideally a snug/games room for kids. We love the area and have some great neighbours.
> 
> The big job gives us everything we need, but looks like being 300k+. It's our forever home , but based on the above "forever" is now understood to be to mid sixties. Kids will probably be here another 10 years, maybe 20 with college, saving for deposits etc.
> 
> At €300k+ I'm continually looking at whether we're mad to do it. I'm not too worried about making our money back, and I think we'll get huge enjoyment out of the additional space and usability. Plus we have to re-wire and insulate, change windows, so a job needs to be done. But it's also good to have this longer plan of moving in mid-sixties to smaller/more appropriate accommodation in mind. If I moved to an apartment I would definitely want it to have outside shared green space. @LondonIrish your parents' setup sounds perfect.



Hi David_Dublin,

Just on this. We were in a similar situation to yours about 5 years ago. It sounds like you have 2 options. (1) the Fully Monty for 300k or (2) do up the house without extending. If you need to borrow, I would recommend this https://www.theguardian.com/money/loan-repayment-calculator-interest-rates. Put in the difference between (1) and (2) and see how much it will cost every month.  We went with option (2) in the end. As it turns out we already have a playroom but the kids rarely use it. It would be nice to have extra space but when you see what it would cost you every month for X number of years it might make you think! Anyway, best of luck with it!

Firefly.


----------



## NotMyRealName

David_Dublin said:


> Interesting. I don't agree at all. Or maybe it depends on "can get away with".
> 
> I think key to living harmoniously with family is having space where you can retreat to. But maybe that reflects badly one me. I like the idea of kids having a room to game in or have friends over to hang out in, while parents have a separate spot to watch telly/read etc. Or one parent to be able to close a door to listen to music, and the other parent to have friends over for a bite to eat or a drink and chat, while the kids are in their own space shouting at the computer games.
> 
> I think having three "living areas" is about right for us, family of 4, teenage kids. I don't think that sounds like your idea of "the smallest house you can get away with".
> 
> 
> Well, I understand what you mean and "what you can get away with.." sounds like a casual decision rather than the multi-dimensional measured consideration that it was.....in our case.
> I have managed pretty much all you've outlined....in a modest 1000sq ft terraced home, so I know it's possible but that might not be desirable for others. My 2 kids are teenagers and have never since complained about the trampoline we didn't get or the skip we didn't need later to put it in.....or the cow we didn't get because they like milk.
> If downsizing may be of concern to you, then consider not upsizing. I do business in this upsizing space. I am not envious of the purchasing power of my customers. They are all nice people spending their money in their way. Sometimes I find that they're looking around wondering what can I buy next? As @Gordongekko disparagingly referred to it in another thread "feathering some builders nest".
> You would be surprised at how even the smallest house feels empty when there's only 2 of you there (or 1). Covid has kept homes full for the last 18 months or so. But send your teens out,tidy the house, put on the Beatles "she's leaving home"  imagine the teens won't be back and THEN see how big your house is.
> Ownership is an illusion. We have custody of things and we're just passing through. I wouldn't want this to come across as an abstemious viewpoint. If large spacious homes and gardens are for you, then go for it. When I give people more space, they fill it. Without fail.
> We've entertained at Xmas, New Year's,BBQs, book clubs, birthdays, come-dine-with-me , around the 20 people mark. It's not perfect but that's part of the memory.....even if you can load the dishwasher from your dining chair.......
> This is not a recipe, only an opinion.....just in case there's any doubt..


----------



## Black Sheep

For us Covid and lockdown has put an end to any vague ideas we had about downsizing. We have a larger house and garden than just 2 old folks need at normal times, but these are not normal times so the extra space is invaluable. We've had quite a few house moves over the years so we are staying put. When we are no longer able to maintain this house and garden, hopefully there will always be younger people around who would like a little part time job helping us out. The other advantage is our other adult children and grandchildren live nearby, having also lived in Dublin and abroad earlier in their lives.
We are close enough to walk to the shops (choice of 3 large supermarkets) and 2 of them deliver if required.
We consider it an advantage to live outside Dublin in a small town with good transport links to the city centre and Airport. Our daughter lives close to the Airport so any late night flights have an overnight with her.
I love the freedom of retirement and doing things on the spur of the moment. Hop on the bus, a walk on the beach, meet a friend for coffee, book a cheap flight. The secret to it all is to have the health to enjoy it.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Great post Black Sheep.

This is Askaboutmoney, so we do focus on financial wellbeing, but it’s also vital that people invest in their physical wellbeing also.

Movement, Movement, Movement at a minimum.

There’s not much point in having a big pension and plenty of money in the bank, but being unable to do anything.


----------



## noproblem

Gordon Gekko said:


> Great post Black Sheep.
> 
> This is Askaboutmoney, so we do focus on financial wellbeing, but it’s also vital that people invest in their physical wellbeing also.
> 
> Movement, Movement, Movement at a minimum.
> 
> There’s not much point in having a big pension and plenty of money in the bank, but being unable to do anything.


So very true.


----------



## IsleOfMan

LondonIrish said:


> become used to wearing 2-3 layers of clothing inside during cold snaps. To me this seems like a meagre and depressing retirement but they have a big garden that they like to potter about in and seem quite content.


I love our house in the summer.  Lots of rooms and room in them. East/West facing.  Sun in the morning in our kitchen.  On a very hot day we can retreat to the other side of the house for a bit of shade and coolness.  Nice garden. Parking for up to 5 cars. Garage. I can get lost easily enough if needs be.
Four of our bedrooms still contain the belongings of our flown the nest children. We have become a storage space for them. Museum quality. One room full of toys for the grand children.
In the winter time it is a cold house. We don't switch on the radiators in the spare bedrooms plus a couple of reception rooms. We don't really need to use these rooms other than to stroll in to occasionally. So for 6 months of the year our house shrinks down to a few rooms.

Not sure what to do.


----------



## DublinHead54

I see the indo is running a headline today about tax incentives and grants to encourage people to downsize. Details to be announced in next months Housing for all Plan. 

I think downsizing would be more popular if there was a property available next door. Downsizing often requires moving to new areas which is a challenge in later years of life, unless moving closer to family etc. I don't know if there are many developments in the country that cater to older age groups? Apartment blocks tend to be transient, and having lived in them for most of my adult life they are incomparable to the sense of community I've found since moving to the burbs.


----------



## Truffade

Dublinbay12 said:


> I see the indo is running a headline today about tax incentives and grants to encourage people to downsize. Details to be announced in next months Housing for all Plan.
> 
> I think downsizing would be more popular if there was a property available next door. Downsizing often requires moving to new areas which is a challenge in later years of life, unless moving closer to family etc. I don't know if there are many developments in the country that cater to older age groups? Apartment blocks tend to be transient, and having lived in them for most of my adult life they are incomparable to the sense of community I've found since moving to the burbs.


Intuitively, it is something that makes sense.


We form family units, we have children - we live in a big house
Those children grow up, they leave the big house  the big house now only has two people living in it.
Those children start having children themselves, they need a big house - but many of the existing stock of big houses are occupied by their parent's generation

From a resourcing perspective, it is highly inefficient to have small older family units (of 1 or 2 people) living in these big houses while younger families are searching for suitable housing themselves.
The trick (which our government appears to have missed) would appear to be a strategy that would encourage older people to sell their big houses (if they want to!) and downsize to suitable smaller units that are optimised for older people. 

If we could solve this one, it would free up a lot of family houses for actual families that need them - and house older people in units suitable to their needs. 

I can't see our government ever tackling this but it does seem to me to be one of the great unspoken debates in our housing crisis...I wonder what they do in other countries?


----------



## Black Sheep

We've had this same mantra about incentives for old folk to downsize with very few practical ideas on offer. As I've already said above our house is bigger than required but the options of downsizing are not attractive. We could buy a standard 3 bed semi in the same area,for just a little less than the sale price of our own so no pot of gold to be had. Houses in the same area sell at roughly the same price regardless of condition or even size. I think this is common to all housing estates. Perhaps we have learned a lot about ourselves during Lockdown and don't need the pot of gold. We come from that generation that were good with money management and can have a good lifestyle on pension.

A friend widow sold her 4 bed house 2 years ago and went to live with her daughter temporarily  while her new 2 bed was being built. Problems with planning, water and of course Covid has meant she is nowhere near moving in and the stress has been dreadful. Stress is the thing to avoid at all costs


----------



## Truffade

Black Sheep said:


> We've had this same mantra about incentives for old folk to downsize with very few practical ideas on offer. As I've already said above our house is bigger than required but the options of downsizing are not attractive. We could buy a standard 3 bed semi in the same area,for just a little less than the sale price of our own so no pot of gold to be had. Houses in the same area sell at roughly the same price regardless of condition or even size. I think this is common to all housing estates. Perhaps we have learned a lot about ourselves during Lockdown and don't need the pot of gold. We come from that generation that were good with money management and can have a good lifestyle on pension.
> 
> A friend widow sold her 4 bed house 2 years ago and went to live with her daughter temporarily  while her new 2 bed was being built. Problems with planning, water and of course Covid has meant she is nowhere near moving in and the stress has been dreadful. Stress is the thing to avoid at all costs


Fully understand.

Just to give you where I'm coming from - I live in a 'good' area of Dublin, we're in our mid 40s with 3 kids. 
On our road there are 20 houses, only three of those have children living in them and the rest are all owned by older people, who mostly purchased the houses as new in the 1970s.

In the midst of a housing crisis, this just seems like a chronic misuse of resources. 

Please don't misunderstand my post as 'old people should be kicked out of their family homes!'. I just think we should have a sensible housing policy that covers the ability to right size your housing needs for your stage of life. As you point out, even if you wanted to, this doesn't exist in most areas.


----------



## IsleOfMan

Truffade said:


> From a resourcing perspective, it is highly inefficient to have small older family units (of 1 or 2 people) living in these big houses while younger families are searching for suitable housing themselves.


Will the younger upcoming family be able to afford the bigger houses owned by the older generation or will it be the select few who will be able to purchase?


----------



## Leper

I don't apologise to anybody for where I live. We've worked hard since we were sixteen to get to where we are. 

I didn't create the housing shortage crisis. Talk to those who did and leave us Empty Nesters enjoy what we earned and through much sacrifice.


----------



## Truffade

IsleOfMan said:


> Will the younger upcoming family be able to afford the bigger houses owned by the older generation or will it be the select few who will be able to purchase?



In theory, more supply of family homes (via older people downsizing) should lead to lower prices.

But as we all know, the normal laws of supply and demand seem to operate on a more _unusual_ plane when it comes to the Irish housing market!


----------



## Truffade

Leper said:


> I don't apologise to anybody for where I live. We've worked hard since we were sixteen to get to where we are.
> 
> I didn't create the housing shortage crisis. Talk to those who did and leave us Empty Nesters enjoy what we earned and through much sacrifice.



You seem to be taking personal offence at a general suggestion. It's not aimed at you. Relax. 

You don't need, or want to, downsize - great, stay in your house. 
Don't you think though that for the overall good of our society, it would be good to create a proper downsizing option for those older people who might like to avail of it?


----------



## Sarenco

Dublinbay12 said:


> I see the indo is running a headline today about tax incentives and grants to encourage people to downsize


I really don't think there is any need to incentivise empty nesters to downsize.

In my experience, there are plenty of empty nesters that actually want to move from 4/5-bed suburban houses built in the 70s/80s to new build 2/3-bed, A-rated homes, in reasonably close proximity to their friends/family and within walking distance of relevant amenities and good public transport links.

However, identifying such a property is a real challenge in most "mature" suburban neighbourhoods.

The problem, IMO, is the shortage of suitable homes to downsize to - not a lack of incentives to do so.


----------



## Truffade

Sarenco said:


> I really don't think there is any need to incentivise empty nesters to downsize.
> 
> In my experience, there are plenty of empty nesters that actually want to move from 4/5-bed suburban houses built in the 70s/80s to new build 2/3-bed, A-rated homes, in reasonably close proximity to their friends/family and within walking distance of relevant amenities and good public transport links.
> 
> However, identifying such a property is a real challenge in most "mature" suburban neighbourhoods.
> 
> The problem, IMO, is the shortage of suitable homes to downsize to - not a lack of incentives to do so.



You're right in the lack of suitable 'downsizable' accomodation.

I think though, in terms of incentivization, if ever there was a time to incentivize downsizing - in order to achieve the policy goal of making some badly-needed family homes available, this is the time. And I say that as someone who would be generally against government intervention in markets.


----------



## DublinHead54

So are the government going to create another issue in the housing crisis? They are going to incentivise Empty nesters to sell their house and put them in competition with first time buyers for A-rated 2/3 bedroom new builds? 

This is assuming that especially in Dublin those Empty Nesters have homes that are only affordable by a select few whilst the incentives increase the number of people looking for what are traditionally known as 'starter homes'. These


----------



## Early Riser

Truffade said:


> You seem to be taking personal offence at a general suggestion. It's not aimed at you. Relax.
> 
> You don't need, or want to, downsize - great, stay in your house.
> Don't you think though that for the overall good of our society, it would be good to create a proper downsizing option for those older people who might like to avail of it?


I absolutely agree that it would. Noone should be forced out of their house but social policy should address overall social good.

The turnover in house ownership is far too low. It is clearly not a social good for older retired singles and couples to be pottering around big houses in high demand central locations while young people live in shoes boxes and have to commute hours daily for work. The value of those houses has risen by multiples of inflation over the several decades that the current owners have lived in them. Sure they paid for them but most of the added value is there because of other reasons that have nothing to do with them personally - eg, general economic growth, increase in services in urban locations, lack of available land to provide more houses in central locations, and, yes, lack of turnover in housing as needs change.

At the same time the demands on general government spend to cater for the health and social care needs of an expanding elderly generation is ever increasing. This additional cost should not be completely, or largely, thrown back on the working younger people - particularly as they are being priced out of the housing market.

In terms of incentives, I think these should not be aimed specifically at subsidising downsizers. However, there may be a case to be made at subsidising developments that might be more suitable to the needs of an older and aging demographic, eg, in terms of adapted developments and the provision of health and social care hubs in such developments. I am not speaking of supported living developments per se but developments that have some resource provision so that people can be reassured that there are resources nearby if they should ever need them.

I suggest that one primary way the issue could be addressed is through the tax system and, particularly, property tax. It is ridiculously low. Obviously this should not be aimed specifically at older people. But if taxes were pitched at an appropriate level generally it may well incentivise many to move if they no longer require a central location, or empty rooms and hard to maintain gardens. Perhaps some combination of site value and location and property size, if this is not too complex. If the property tax on some of these houses was to be  say €7000 rather than €700 (etc) then people may consider that moving is a more attractive proposition? Higher turnover and better (social) use of this housing stock may have a cooling effect on prices also. By all means widen or otherwise adjust the income tax bands at the same time - although some of the money will be needed for the care needs of the elderly anyway.

I don't think it will be possible to achieve this by providing alternative accomodation for people but without some change in location. The incentives for alternative developments could well be in smaller urban developments away from the centres of larger cities - or away from larger cities. Again noone should be forced to move but attractive developments combined with tax incentives/ disincentives might tempt many.  Perhaps even an LPT exemption? And increasing demand should increase supply in less costly locations. The best time to move but would be around retirement when people could well build new social networks - not when they are becoming infirm or dependent.

Nothing personal folks! I am of this demographic myself but trying to think of it from a social point of view rather than purely personal.


----------



## Leper

Nothing Personal my you-know-what! - Right! Let's line up everybody over 55 who owns his/her home and issue them with the following:-
1. You own your home which is too big for you, according to us, You have no say whatsoever and we're turfing you out to make way for somebody who doesn't own his/her own home.
2. You can go and live in a smaller home of our decision where you should be delighted in making way for the new crop of upwardly mobile individuals. 
3. If you decided not to vacate, your property tax will increase by 500%.
4. Please Mr Leper, no arguments, just relax and get out now!

I didn't qualify for a grant for our first home, applying for local authority housing was out of the question and also the same for a local authority loan, our bank kept us on 12 months bridging loan before the mortgage was made available to us thereby increasing our repayments by one year, and then we had to contend with interest rates of up to 19.75%, Mrs Lep was obliged to give up work on marriage (Public Service Decree), our offspring didn't qualify for 3rd Level Grants because of my income, I'm still awaiting my 2nd Covid AZ Vaccine while everybody I know (younger and older than me) is fully vaccinated for several weeks. You see, these people would be moaning to their elected representatives if they weren't winning at bingo. Why should I complain about being turfed out of the home we paid dearly for?


----------



## Truffade

Leper said:


> Nothing Personal my you-know-what! - Right! Let's line up everybody over 55 who owns his/her home and issue them with the following:-
> 1. You own your home which is too big for you, according to us, You have no say whatsoever and we're turfing you out to make way for somebody who doesn't own his/her own home.
> 2. You can go and live in a smaller home of our decision where you should be delighted in making way for the new crop of upwardly mobile individuals.
> 3. If you decided not to vacate, your property tax will increase by 500%.
> 4. Please Mr Leper, no arguments, just relax and get out now!
> 
> I didn't qualify for a grant for our first home, applying for local authority housing was out of the question and also the same for a local authority loan, our bank kept us on 12 months bridging loan before the mortgage was made available to us thereby increasing our repayments by one year, and then we had to contend with interest rates of up to 19.75%, Mrs Lep was obliged to give up work on marriage (Public Service Decree), our offspring didn't qualify for 3rd Level Grants because of my income, I'm still awaiting my 2nd Covid AZ Vaccine while everybody I know (younger and older than me) is fully vaccinated for several weeks. You see, these people would be moaning to their elected representatives if they weren't winning at bingo. Why should I complain about being turfed out of the home we paid dearly for?



I think you just illustrated why our TDs are so scared of annoying the older voter!

No-one is suggesting 'turfing you out'. You inferred that all by yourself.


----------



## Early Riser

Leper said:


> You have no say whatsoever and we're turfing you out


 
Noone is turfing anyone out. But public policy should be about public good. I don't think it helps to personalise this too much and, anyway, I don't know where you live or your circumstances. (I also don't think victimhood is helpful - you are being singled out to wait for the second vaccine because you don't count in some way? Really?). I would bet though that your home has increased in value (and your nominal wealth has increased) at a level multiple to that of any cost-of-living index since the time you first purchased it. This has been due to reasons way outside of your control, or your good efforts, so no use trying to take all of the credit for your sacrifices (which every generation makes in its own way. And by the way, you forgot to mention the mortgage interest relief!).  

But you would not be thrown out. A rise in LPT all around (not just on the Leper household or on the over 60s, etc) would in my opinion, encourage a better use of the housing stock. If you are paying €600 and it rose to €6000 then you and Mrs. Leper are well capable of making a rational choice on whether to stay or move to somewhere with a lower rating (or attaching the charge to the house if you are unable to pay). Out of say every 1000 Leper households if 500 decided to move this would result in a greatly increase supply of family homes in a location desired by, and suitable for, the active workforce (and assuming this applies to your location). If this results in a decrease in the numbers commuting long distances so much the better. Better to tax in this way than simply to lump on income tax. Maybe reduce it instead. (Anyway, I bet you would be much more contented in lovely Manorhamilton anyway - you just needed the nudge)

But as mentioned by another poster, it is very unlikely to happen. Everyone likes to to moan about services, planning, housing, traffic, etc etc. but few see themselves being involved in the problem never mind the solution. And damn any politician who suggests otherwise.


----------



## Odea

Looking at some of the smaller houses coming on the market in the area where I live and they are in worse condition than my own. There are practically nil new houses coming on the market where I live. In fact some of the bigger houses are being bought, demolished and apartments built on the site.

I live in a 5 bed detached. I would happily move to a 3 bed detached or even a 3 bed semi.  However I would need to spend substantial sums of money to upgrade the 3 bed in the area where I live, as well as stamp duty buying it.  Sure I might as well stay where I am and spend this money on my own house.

The only thing that is in the back of my mind is if the government would allow me sell my home now and gift some of the equity proceeds to my children tax free. This would be in addition to the inheritance threshold of €335k that they would get.





__





						The seven-year rule – why it matters when making financial gifts
					

In this article, the experts at Evelyn Partners explain what the seven-rule is and how it could reduce your Inheritance Tax bill




					www.tilney.co.uk


----------



## Gordon Gekko

I don’t think incentives are required.

There’s already a big incentive…you can realise gains tax-free and buy a new place with the money left over.

The problem, as Sarenco and others highlighted, is a lack of suitable properties to downsize into and the fact that many people just don’t want to downsize regardless. It’s their home, in many cases somewhere they’ve spend decades, and moving home is a pain in the proverbial.

There have been decent examples where supply of suitable properties, albeit sometimes at the higher end. Marianella in Rathgar attracted a lot of downsizers, albeit people downsizing from €1-2m homes into €750k apartments probably didn’t excite the Shinners.


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## kinnjohn

Truffade said:


> I think you just illustrated why our TDs are so scared of annoying the older voter!
> 
> No-one is suggesting 'turfing you out'. You inferred that all by yourself.


I am enjoying my retirement it was well earned when I started out working income tax was around twice as high as it is today I retired,
 Prsi  was around 18.5% of payroll there was no tax relief on contributions,
The only good thing back then if you were out of work you got around 75% of your wages tapering off over 15 months, same as we have in most EU Countries to this Day,

Now who Is scared of who and why,



FF FG and Labour have not forgotten the lesson on how the annoyed young and not so young workers stood up to them and put them in their place back in the 1980s, over 700000  came out on one day alone to protest at not being listened to, (retired and retirees Of today)

They are still scared of annoying  the 1980s generation,

 it has nothing got to do with TDs being scared of annoying the older voter,

, TDs know that the 1980 generation know how to vote and through no fault of their own they are now older and as wise as they were back in the 1980s  fool me once shame on TDs fool me twice shame on me comes to mind,

Google Tax Payers March 1980 and have a good read when you get a chance and enjoy,

I was not part of the 700000 who marched that day but the TDs of today will not take a chance of finding out the hard way who they were,

TDs know people who were young in the 1980s are friendly when they call to their door but they have a fierce bite if treated unfairly,

Income tax on PAYE workers  today is only half of what it was back in the 1980s, there was little or no tax collected from any other sector

prsi on self-employed only came in in 1988 for the first time TDs helped to fill in the forms for  non-contributory pensions I think you will figure out the outcome yourself,
Hope the above helps understand why TDs don't want to do anything to remind the people who paid their wages and provided the money for the parish pump gravy train back in the 1980s,


----------



## Itchy

Odea said:


> The only thing that is in the back of my mind is if the government would allow me sell my home now and gift some of the equity proceeds to my children tax free. This would be in addition to the inheritance threshold



I think that would be a bad idea with some unintended consequences. Could put awful pressure on some elderly parents.


----------



## misemoi

Right now the government is incentivising FTB to buy new builds with the Help to Buy.  It wasn't that long ago that I was a FTB but I still would have gone for a second hand house in a mature estate regardless.  Same with any rightsizing incentive. If it suits me I will gladly take it but I won't if it doesn't. Nobody is obliged to downsize. But the government might make it attractive enough to sway some folk who were considering it.


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## 2bmortgagefree

Truffade said:


> Intuitively, it is something that makes sense.
> 
> 
> We form family units, we have children - we live in a big house
> Those children grow up, they leave the big house  the big house now only has two people living in it.
> Those children start having children themselves, they need a big house - but many of the existing stock of big houses are occupied by their parent's generation
> 
> From a resourcing perspective, it is highly inefficient to have small older family units (of 1 or 2 people) living in these big houses while younger families are searching for suitable housing themselves.
> The trick (which our government appears to have missed) would appear to be a strategy that would encourage older people to sell their big houses (if they want to!) and downsize to suitable smaller units that are optimised for older people.
> 
> If we could solve this one, it would free up a lot of family houses for actual families that need them - and house older people in units suitable to their needs.
> 
> I can't see our government ever tackling this but it does seem to me to be one of the great unspoken debates in our housing crisis...I wonder what they do in other countries?


I think government could look at this and try to make it easier in terms of planning to build an  annex on to houses whereby you could have multi generational family units. Things like square footage exemptions, development levies exemptions would help free up properties. It could also mean older people don't have to go to nursing homes as they have family nearby to care for them. 

Another suggestion is to look at allowing the proceeds of sale of family homes be exempt from inheritance tax threshold for a period of 3 to 5 years therefore increasing supply. 

I believe in carrot rather than stick approach to this. It's horrible to see empty houses lying idle to pay care home fees.


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## kinnjohn

Early Riser said:


> Noone is turfing anyone out. But public policy should be about public good.
> 
> . If you are paying €600 and it rose to €6000 then you and Mrs. Leper are well capable of making a rational choice on whether to stay or move to somewhere with a lower rating (or attaching the charge to the house if you are unable to pay). Out of say every 1000 Leper households if 500 decided to move this would result in a greatly increase supply of family homes in a location desired by, and suitable for, the active workforce (and assuming this applies to your location). If this results in a decrease in the numbers commuting long distances so much the better. Better to tax in this way than simply to lump on income tax. Maybe reduce it instead. (Anyway, I bet you would be much more contented in lovely Manorhamilton anyway - you just needed the nudge)
> 
> But as mentioned by another poster, it is very unlikely to happen. Everyone likes to to moan about services, planning, housing, traffic, etc etc. but few see themselves being involved in the problem never mind the solution. And damn any politicwho suggests otherwise.


How about 66% benefit in kind tax on the employer contributions section of all pensions including lump sum at drawdown and reinvest it in building extra homes, the real problem is a shortage of new builds

 we could try out the benefit in kind  on the pensions of those who suggested  increasingLPT,


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## Early Riser

kinnjohn said:


> How about 66% benefit in kind tax on the employer contributions section of all pensions including lump sum at drawdown and reinvest it in building extra homes, the real problem is a shortage of new builds
> 
> we could try out the benefit in kind  on the pensions of those who suggesting increasingLPT,


  Is a red herring the correct term for this? And is the real problem the shortage of new builds - or is there considerably more to it than that? What about best use of existing housing stock? What about suitability of housing to changing needs? What about affordability of housing and house price inflation? What about location of housing? The availability of land? What about commuting and congestion? What about the burden of taxation between property and earned income? What about conflating home ownership with property investment?

If changes to pensions can contribute to good housing policy and the public good then by all means it should be looked at. Otherwise it is a separate matter and kept under review in its own right.

Anyway, I think we have drifted too far from the thread topic. I'll leave off - and enjoy my pension!


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## kinnjohn

now on a more serious note
has anyone noticed most of the downsizing or moving house by retired or shortly to be retired people is into housing in locations where there is already a shortage in lots of cases They are cash buyers pushing up prices on people needing houses near their work not to mention increasing LPT by increasing house prices on working people,

In other words, they are picking the Icing off the cake of low to medium-income  workers needing to buy or rent housing near their work,

The houses they are moving out of Where I live anyhow are being snapped up by people moving for lifestyle reasons most are spending large amounts of money doing them up,
People cannot get local Builders to build new houses as there is easier money to be made working in the lifestyle housing sector soaking up almost all available construction labor,
Retired people moving house could soak up most of the construction labor around to build new houses on both ends of the move first getting the house they are moving into to their liking

Then the new owners  using up more construction labor on the house they moved out of,


----------



## kinnjohn

Early Riser said:


> If changes to pensions can contribute to good housing policy and the public good then by all means it should be looked at. Otherwise it is a separate matter and kept under review in its own right.
> 
> Anyway, I think we have drifted too far from the thread topic. I'll leave off - and enjoy my pension!


And I can enjoy my house my well-earned pension and my retirement,

To be honest, I looked at moving after retiring I went to a viewing the other people at the viewing  had a small child, Mother was looking to buy around that area for part-time work reasons, if I had bid I would have driven the price up more  they finished up buying,

just for the record, I have met that couple out walking they always stand and we have a chat they love the house only did a few DIY jobs on it since moving in a few years ago,
 Had I bought I would have spent money mostly on Construction labor,


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## Odea

2bmortgagefree said:


> Another suggestion is to look at allowing the proceeds of sale of family homes be exempt from inheritance tax threshold for a period of 3 to 5 years therefore increasing supply.


Can you expand on this. I am not sure what you mean.

If the older owner has died, let's say the proceeds go to the children........how will this action increase supply?


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## Marco 1972

Interesting threads, will be 50 on nxt birthday and the 'R' word is recurring on an increasing basis at coffe break with the same age cohort, we have decent public service conditions etc feeling that we are the very very tail end of that 'Boomer' era, own property etc 

Definitely notice our rubbish autumn/winter climate as l get older....

is there a big difference between 60 and 65 in terms of energy, concentration etc,


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## PGF2016

Odea said:


> Can you expand on this. I am not sure what you mean.
> 
> If the older owner has died, let's say the proceeds go to the children........how will this action increase supply?


I think it's incentivizing selling the parents home as opposed to retaining it.


----------



## LondonIrish

I am unable to post links here but there is a development in Muswell Hill in north London called Woodside Square. It is near where I live and I think that it is a good example of the type of downsized property development that we need more of. It is in London so obviously the prices reflect this but it is in an area I know well. There are great local amenities and for many of the residents their old family homes are just a couple of streets away. 

Although it is marketed at over-55s there are a load of townhouses in the same develoment that are aimed at families (the local schools are good) and this ensures that the place does not feel like a retirees-only development. There are some interesting additional facilities too like a large communal area that is used for social clubs, yoga and can be rented for parties. There are also a couple of ensuite double rooms available for rent so owners can ensure extra space when family or friends come to visit.


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## DublinHead54

Early Riser said:


> But you would not be thrown out. A rise in LPT all around (not just on the Leper household or on the over 60s, etc) would in my opinion, encourage a better use of the housing stock. If you are paying €600 and it rose to €6000 then you and Mrs. Leper are well capable of making a rational choice on whether to stay or move to



Would that not only work if the LPT was levied against particular age groups? If it rose from 600 to 6,000 for all then arguably people with young families would be put under more financial pressure than empty nesters who have fewer outgoings.

I've seen property tax used as a means to gentrify neighbourhoods in the US. Low income families unable to sustain the tax due to house price increases, forced to sell. Due to higher house prices only certain percentage of the population can afford to buy in the area, pushing lower incomes families out further or to less desirable areas. 

Dublin likely has the largest concentration of empty nesters. If they were all suddenly incentivised to sell, it wouldn't solve the housing crisis because not everyone looking to buy could afford the high prices.


----------



## SoylentGreen

Marco 1972 said:


> is there a big difference between 60 and 65 in terms of energy, concentration etc,


I am approaching 70 years.  I took early retirement in my 50's.  I have spent 20 years travelling, pottering about the house and garden. Keeping in touch with family, grand children. Not big drinkers, no fancy restaurants, modest cars, not interested in clothes or bling. Live in coastal south Dublin. Have everything on my doorstep. Not good at DIY. Large house.

We have decided to stay put after discussing downsizing at length. Looked at a 3 bed apartment recently, short of €1m. Luxurious, close to where we live......but after talking through this we came to the conclusion that we were mad to even consider it.  Going from the known to the unknown. The devil we know.....What if it didn't work out...there would be no going back.

Not being good at DIY has lots of problems for us.  My house needs a number of improvements.  I am pretty clueless.  We recently decided to upgrade a shower room. Got one quote €16k and another €6k.  Patio doors €4k. Maybe replace a few windows etc.  We need a new kitchen....kitchen, electrics, floor levelling, tiles, gas....

House is cold in the winter.

Exhausted at the prospect.

So we came to the conclusion that the only reason we would be moving house was to buy somewhere where all these jobs had been done.

We were effectively dodging the work that needed to be done on the house that we love and want to stay in.

So to answer Marco 1972.....I think that we have lost our "bottle". Jobs that we did back in the 70's, 80's and 90's without a thought seems enormous to get done now.  Also trying to get people with the knowledge to do these jobs is proving difficult. So many, are up to their eyes in work.


----------



## kinnjohn

Dublinbay12 said:


> Would that not only work if the LPT was levied against particular age groups? If it rose from 600 to 6,000 for all then arguably people with young families would be put under more financial pressure than empty nesters who have fewer outgoings.
> 
> I've seen property tax used as a means to gentrify neighbourhoods in the US. Low income families unable to sustain the tax due to house price increases, forced to sell. Due to higher house prices only certain percentage of the population can afford to buy in the area, pushing lower incomes families out further or to less desirable areas.


build more houses to match the average industrial wage, CSO Figures published 6 June 2020 show more than 400000 jobs were created in the Irish economy between 2014 and 2020 some of these extra job holders would now be in the market looking for houses,

the same CSO  report shows the annual average earnings rose 3.5% to 40.283 in 2019,

again the CSO report shows an average full-time salary of  48946

The CSO report did not show the most important statistic which would have to be the incomes of the 400000 newly created jobs there is a good chance by now some of these people would be in the market for social or private sector housing,

If we are growing jobs we also need to be building more houses to match their incomes


----------



## jpd

The lack of a suitable mix of housing in many areas is a huge disincentive for many older people to downsize as it often means they would have to leave the area and move away.

The planning process which encouraged or indeed only allowed a standard type of house to be built is at fault.

Many, many plans to add a mix of smaller houses and apartments into an area of standard 3- or 4- bedroom houses was met with dismay and stonewalled by the very people who now moan about the lack of suitable housing to move into.

The planners and politicians who are responsible for this state of affairs are only interested in the short term - ie can I get re-elected next year or the year after - long term housing planning is non-existent in this country


----------



## PGF2016

jpd said:


> The lack of a suitable mix of housing in many areas is a huge disincentive for many older people to downsize as it often means they would have to leave the area and move away.
> 
> The planning process which encouraged or indeed only allowed a standard type of house to be built is at fault.
> 
> Many, many plans to add a mix of smaller houses and apartments into an area of standard 3- or 4- bedroom houses was met with dismay and stonewalled by the very people who now moan about the lack of suitable housing to move into.
> 
> The planners and politicians who are responsible for this state of affairs are only interested in the short term - ie can I get re-elected next year or the year after - long term housing planning is non-existent in this country


Is it not the case that the developers want to build 4/5 beds where possible to maximize profit, the planners want 3/4 beds for families and the majority don't want to downsize but want to stay in the house that they have put so much into? So who wants a smaller 1/2 bed house? Only those willing to downsize and childless couples. That's not a big cohort of people. 

Not being sentimental or good at DIY the idea of a small energy efficient 2 bed sounds great to me. Long way off though.


----------



## DublinHead54

Plot size for a new build now vs a new build in 60s/70s/ Dublin must be considerably smaller. A common theme here is that garden maintenance gets tougher as people gets older. Whilst true, not every young person wants the luxury of maintaining a large garden either. As suggested the building in gardens of small 2 bed homes, is probably a good solution.


----------



## kinnjohn

jpd said:


> The lack of a suitable mix of housing in many areas is a huge disincentive for many older people to downsize as it often means they would have to leave the area and move away.
> 
> The planning process which encouraged or indeed only allowed a standard type of house to be built is at fault.
> 
> Many, many plans to add a mix of smaller houses and apartments into an area of standard 3- or 4- bedroom houses was met with dismay and stonewalled by the very people who now moan about the lack of suitable housing to move into.
> 
> The planners and politicians who are responsible for this state of affairs are only interested in the short term - ie can I get re-elected next year or the year after - long term housing planning is non-existent in this country


Even if there is a mix it can get tricky,
I looked at downsizing in the area I lived in there was what I would call a suitable mix of housing when they were built,
 I was shocked to find  all the smaller units has been snapped up by buy to rent types who did not care who they were rented then to,

What once seemed like a lovely place to go live in retirement when built15 years ago, had turned into an unkept unsafe place to live, It was frightening to say the least,


----------



## 2bmortgagefree

Odea said:


> Can you expand on this. I am not sure what you mean.
> 
> If the older owner has died, let's say the proceeds go to the children........how will this action increase supply?




Apologies if point wasn't clear. The current inheritance tax threshold is 335k. The point I was making is that if the government incentivised the sales of properties for a short period of time by exempting the proceeds of the sale of properties from inheritance tax thresholds it may bring more family type homes on to market to address supply issues. This point is made in conjunction with exemptions for annexes  or granny flats to be allowed also. It could in some instances encourage some older people to sell up move into a granny flat on a child's property and freeing up a house for young family.


----------



## kinnjohn

2bmortgagefree said:


> Apologies if point wasn't clear. The current inheritance tax threshold is 335k. The point I was making is that if the government incentivised the sales of properties for a short period of time by exempting the proceeds of the sale of properties from inheritance tax thresholds it may bring more family type homes on to market to address supply issues. This point is made in conjunction with exemptions for annexes  or granny flats to be allowed also. It could in some instances encourage some older people to sell up move into a granny flat on a child's property and freeing up a house for young family.


I am retired I own 3 houses the one I live in at present is close to a large town worth quite a lot of money I would like to downsize and move further into town, I also own a house out the country a bit from where I live at present I rent it out there is also a workshop where I enjoy spending time,

 the other house is quite a bit away close to where my son lives, I don't want to move away from the town I now live in, I would love to downsize and move closer to the town I now live in since I retired I have built up a network of friends who meet up any time any of us feel bored or want to have a coffee and chat or whatever,
Not interested in annexes or granny flats love the fact I am not in anybody's way, enjoying my retirement if I ever sell and move I will be taking up a house or  apartment in the price range of the very people you are trying to help,

all of my family seem to be in their forever home and you want to forgo taxation in my favor the net result will be I take another house out of the price range of  the average income worker and free up a house away out of their range,
I can tell you There is plenty of cash waiting to buy my house if I ever sell,

 retirement is lovely when you can  live where you want,
You know the saying better to live rich than to die rich so I will leave the Incentive you are suggesting behind me unless It suits me to move,


----------



## Itchy

kinnjohn said:


> How about 66% benefit in kind tax on the employer contributions section of all pensions including lump sum at drawdown and reinvest it in building extra homes, *the real problem is a shortage of new builds*





kinnjohn said:


> I am retired I own *3* houses



Not entirely convinced by your thoughts housing policy


----------



## kinnjohn

Both are rented out both were bought with after-tax income one was derelict I brought it up to standard  and rented it out to a couple one in their sixties the other over 70  he worked in the UK never married until he was in his sixties she second time round they have it like a dolls house,

 I will not be selling it in their lifetime, I have left provision that it cannot be sold while they are still renting,I was advised against doing so but I bought it for small money I spent a good bit of time doing it up as an overnighter  when I use the workshop I was approached to rent it to them as I said they have it like a dolls house,
The other house is rented close to where my son lives  again I bought it for small money spent time finishing it off, the people renting it are a hardworking couple with a few kids who came to work in Ireland on low enough wages rent is on the low side they know the score keep it looking well and pay on time I am happy to leave rent the way it is, they have a good idea they can stay there unless the time comes when I need to be near my son for health reasons,
I will reply to the 66% tax in another post,


----------



## kinnjohn

Early Riser said:


> .
> 
> But you would not be thrown out. A rise in LPT all around (not just on the Leper household or on the over 60s, etc) would in my opinion, encourage a better use of the housing stock. If you are paying €600 and it rose to €6000 then you and Mrs. Leper are well capable of making a rational choice on whether to stay or move to somewhere with a lower rating (or attaching the charge to the house if you are unable to pay). Out of say every 1000 Leper households if 500 decided to move this would result in a greatly increase supply of family homes in a location desired by, and suitable for, the active workforce (and assuming this applies to your location).
> 
> But as mentioned by another poster, it is very unlikely to happen. Everyone likes to to moan about services, planning, housing, traffic, etc etc. but few see themselves being involved in the problem never mind the solution. And damn any politician who suggests otherwise.





kinnjohn said:


> How about 66% benefit in kind tax on the employer contributions section of all pensions including lump sum at drawdown and reinvest it in building extra homes, the real problem is a shortage of new builds
> 
> we could try out the benefit in kind  on the pensions of those who suggested  increasingLPT,



Someone cash poor with only the contributory pension to live off of about 12000 euro would pay 50 % of their pension in LPT tax of 6000 euro
I suspect they were only getting a rise out of Leper, and I replied about the 66% tax,


I worked in the Private sector in Engineering back around 1980 I fell on my feet so to speak, The USA engineering Company I worked for wanted to retain engineering knowledge and limited direct worker turnover so they brought in a defined benefit pension and pay package so people on lower wages would not be in a hurry to leave and it worked in most cases
The linking the lowest-paid worker to the same pay scale as a P&T telephonist in the public service including lump sums
We paid  3 % they paid  12 % plus any top required to keep it fully funded it was capped once your wages went 50 % over the telephonist wage,

I  finished on a very good pension thanks to my employer contributions  other retirees who may have a good Employers funded pension  would not miss 6000 going in LPT tax and like myself could pick and choose where to move to if they have not already moved because it suits them,

 I don't believe any poster on here would like to see A large rise in the LPT on people who always paid their way to finish their final years being squeezed out of their own homes,


----------



## Early Riser

kinnjohn said:


> I finished on a very good pension thanks to my employer contributions other retirees who may have a good Employers funded pension would not miss 6000 going in LPT tax and like myself could pick and choose where to move to if they have not already moved because it suits them,
> 
> I don't believe any poster on here would like to see A large rise in the LPT on people who always paid their way to finish their final years being squeezed out of their own homes,


I doubt that there is a very high proportion people living in €600,000+ homes and dependent on the State pension for a living. But no doubt there are some. But we all make decisions based on the prevailing economic incentives and disincentives to some extent. And such a person would not be "forced out" of his or her home. The charge could be deferred and discharged out of the estate. Or the person may choose to move. It would be good if singles/couples decided to move on from homes which are far too big for their current needs (and too demanding/costly to maintain) and allowed the housing stock to be recycled to working families. A bigger ongoing turnover of housing stock, combined with a substantial property tax, should help with regards to house price inflation also.

It might be tough with 3 houses though.


----------



## kinnjohn

Early Riser said:


> I doubt that there is a very high proportion people living in €600,000+ homes and dependent on the State pension for a living. But no doubt there are some. But we all make decisions based on the prevailing economic incentives and disincentives to some extent. And such a person would not be "forced out" of his or her home. The charge could be deferred and discharged out of the estate.
> 
> It might be tough with 3 houses though.


I am not P what is his name from Mayo

we could bring in a deluded surcharge

 The views you expressed are not unusual but I never ever heard them expressed by people affected by the housing shortage,


----------



## Black Sheep

Some great posts here from people who have looked at downsizing and shared their views on the pros and cons. 
We haven't heard from many who have actually downsized and moved on. It would be interesting to hear some feedback from them


----------



## huskerdu

Where are you coming up with LPT of €6K. That's for a house worth over €2M. Someone with a house worth €2M should be paying LPT and if they cant afford it, they cant afford to live in their house or they can easily afford to defer and it will come out of their estate. 

We are far too fond of feeling sorry for pensioners who are  have very high property assets,


----------



## kinnjohn

hi huskerdu,
early riser came up with a figure of 6k  they also mentioned a figure of 600k house the way I read the post is LPT at 1% of value,
in other words, 20k LPT on a house worth 2million,
Of course, you could not single out any one generation and tax them differently so you know where we are heading enjoy,


----------



## huskerdu

Thats not correct. Where did you get the idea that LPT was 1%?

 Here are the rates.  Its complicated at the moment due to the revaluation which will happen in Nov this year. 
The LPT on a house which is currently  worth €600K is likely to be €585 









						Here are the new Local Property Tax bands
					

Most of those who face an increase in the tax will pay an extra €90 per year, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe said.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## kinnjohn

But Truffado and early riser in the posting is making the case that we should increase LPT on empty nesters to force them to move,
I know The suggestion is crazy and was replying to the following post NO83 by Truffado  post no 85 by leper
post no 119 by Early riser and post no 122 again by early riser,
I am enjoying a lovely day today out in the garden I get the feeling you are also enjoying your day,

I will check back tonight,


----------



## kinnjohn

huskerdu said:


> We are far too fond of feeling sorry for pensioners who are  have very high property assets,


I feel sorry for the people who suggested raising the LPT to 1% to solve the housing crises if people can raise a mortgage to buy a 2M home I don't think they need Government Help,


----------



## Truffade

kinnjohn said:


> But Truffado and early riser in the posting is making the case that we should increase LPT on empty nesters to force them to move,
> I know The suggestion is crazy and was replying to the following post NO83 by Truffado  post no 85 by leper
> post no 119 by Early riser and post no 122 again by early riser,
> I am enjoying a lovely day today out in the garden I get the feeling you are also enjoying your day,
> 
> I will check back tonight,


That's not correct sir\madam.

I suggested LPT should rise on *all* properties (to fund badly-needed local services). If a side-effect on this is to incentivize some empty nesters to downsize, that would help alleviate our housing crisis.


----------



## Early Riser

kinnjohn said:


> But Truffado and early riser in the posting is making the case that we should increase LPT on empty nesters to force them to move,


Nope.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

kinnjohn said:


> I feel sorry for the people who suggested raising the LPT to 1% to solve the housing crises if people can raise a mortgage to buy a 2M home I don't think they need Government Help,


There’s a good chance that the person didn’t pay €2m for the home.

Let’s say they paid €1.5m.

So they paid €20k in stamp duty.

Their salaries would need to be around €350k a year to borrow €1.2m, assuming that they put down €300k.

So they’re probably paying over €150k per year in income tax/USC/PRSI.

But €20k of property tax per year out of left field would be a kick in the teeth for someone who’s already paying out more than their fair share.


----------



## kinnjohn

If the Government of the day was crazy enough to increase LPT by up to 400% 500% as suggested you can be sure the only people finishing up paying it will be high earners who have overpaid their mortgage,
Empty nesters downsizing to a smaller unit could pay around 1M for an apartment  if they wanted to stay safe and close to where they lived all of their life in Dublin,
You also have to take into account empty nesters downsizing with lots of cash will drive apartment prices up
Squeezing out the very people needing help,

 I  hear people making the same argument as posters  to increase LPT on houses over 500K knowing it will not affect them,

I had intended to downsize on retirement The problem is finding something suitable to buy at present,
One thing I have noticed there is quite a few  apartments left vacant at present around where I live in the large blocks,

In the mixed housing area, I was hoping to buy an apartment built especially for empty nesters all got snapped up by buy to let types the clientele rented them are not the type you would like as neighbors in your old age, the area itself is nice,


----------



## niceoneted

Brendan is there any chance this thread could be split please.  I was really enjoying the posts on what folks did to pass the time after retirement.   It's just gone off on one big thread re downsizing.


----------



## DublinHead54

High-end Dublin houses are selling quickly. Who’s buying them?
					

Around the Block: Agents taken aback by speed at which prime properties are trading




					www.irishtimes.com
				




_As for where sellers of these big houses go, Mullery says he finds most are staying in Dublin, and if they are moving outside their immediate area “it’s usually to be close to their grown-up children in south Co Dublin”.

And, on a related note, McMorrow has noticed a small trend at the top end of the Dublin market in which, spurred by Covid, young families sell up and move to Cork, Galway or Wexford – and their parents follow them._


----------



## Leper

In my attempt to get this subject back on topic I'm going to come clean here and let you all in one of my secrets.

[Roll of Drums; Loud Organ Music and a Clash of cymbals],

After 69 years of trying and throwing in the towel more often than the corner of an under-achieving boxer Leper has learnt to swim properly.

Not just proper breast-stroke, but proper back-stroke, front crawl (with bilateral breathing) and finally can do 1500 metres without stopping. I can do further, but I'm enjoying the experience so much I'm progressing further slowly but steadily. Tumble turns next and that should be interesting!

This didn't just happen overnight. I spent hours in the pool (at quiet times) learning stroke by stroke, proper breathing, good leg propulsion, sound balance and proper positioning of head, shoulders, arms, elbows, hand and stomach (yes stomach!) and of course the strict swivel and recovery.

If you are looking for something to do during retirement, just bite the bullet, swallow a lot of humble pie and take out membership in your nearest clean swimming pool. Incidentally, I lost nearly 3 stone along the way too.


----------



## Dave Vanian

Leper said:


> In my attempt to get this subject back on topic I'm going to come clean here and let you all in one of my secrets.
> 
> [Roll of Drums; Loud Organ Music and a Clash of cymbals],
> 
> After 69 years of trying and throwing in the towel more often than the corner of an under-achieving boxer Leper has learnt to swim properly.
> 
> Not just proper breast-stroke, but proper back-stroke, front crawl (with bilateral breathing) and finally can do 1500 metres without stopping. I can do further, but I'm enjoying the experience so much I'm progressing further slowly but steadily. Tumble turns next and that should be interesting!
> 
> This didn't just happen overnight. I spent hours in the pool (at quiet times) learning stroke by stroke, proper breathing, good leg propulsion, sound balance and proper positioning of head, shoulders, arms, elbows, hand and stomach (yes stomach!) and of course the strict swivel and recovery.
> 
> If you are looking for something to do during retirement, just bite the bullet, swallow a lot of humble pie and take out membership in your nearest clean swimming pool. Incidentally, I lost nearly 3 stone along the way too.



That's a fantastic achievement and gives me hope.  Thank you.  At 50 years of age I can't swim but have already decided that I will learn.  Can I ask - did you take lessons or teach yourself?


----------



## Prittstick

Brilliant !  thats fantastic. I am 67 and am exhausted after 25 m.  How long did it take to get up to 1,500.?  How often a week were you swimming?  I'd love to follow your example. Cheers


----------



## Cervelo

Well done Lep, Now apart from enjoying "coffee and whatnots" on your Spanish balcony in August you can now take a dip in one of the pools in your complex or even better a short stroll to the beach. I'm starting to get jealous


----------



## DublinHead54

Dave Vanian said:


> That's a fantastic achievement and gives me hope.  Thank you.  At 50 years of age I can't swim but have already decided that I will learn.  Can I ask - did you take lessons or teach yourself?



From experience take lessons.....

I used to partake in long distance Triathlons / swims. After getting frustrated at constantly being overtaken and unable to get faster I took a few lessons. It was amazing the difference a few technique changes had, it transformed the experience 10 fold.


----------



## Dave Vanian

Dublinbay12 said:


> From experience take lessons.....
> 
> I used to partake in long distance Triathlons / swims. After getting frustrated at constantly being overtaken and unable to get faster I took a few lessons. It was amazing the difference a few technique changes had, it transformed the experience 10 fold.



Thanks.  It appears that your good self (and I think Leper) could already swim to some extent and your achievements were to improve on that starting point.  An achievement in itself; hats off.  I'm a complete beginner.  To be frank I have two fears.  I am quite nervous in the water - a hangover from a somewhat scary incident in childhood.  I would also be somewhat intimidated by the idea of joining a "beginner's group" and being a 50-something auld lad who is progressing more slowly than a bunch of little kids.  Kids can be so cruel.   

I think I'm talking myself into one-on-one lessons with someone very patient.


----------



## DublinHead54

Dave Vanian said:


> Thanks.  It appears that your good self (and I think Leper) could already swim to some extent and your achievements were to improve on that starting point.  An achievement in itself; hats off.  I'm a complete beginner.  To be frank I have two fears.  I am quite nervous in the water - a hangover from a somewhat scary incident in childhood.  I would also be somewhat intimidated by the idea of joining a "beginner's group" and being a 50-something auld lad who is progressing more slowly than a bunch of little kids.  Kids can be so cruel.
> 
> I think I'm talking myself into one-on-one lessons with someone very patient.



That can be a fear to conquer in itself but with a competent instructor you can quickly get over it. I learnt to swim as a kid, and then didn't swim for 15 years outside of the odd dip in the pool on holidays. When I started back, I could just about swim two lengths, the next week it was four, then 6. It was amazing how quick improvements came, and somewhat therapeutic also. 

The lucky thing for is during retirement you will get to pick the quiet times in the pool! All the best in your endeavour.


----------



## Firefly

Leper said:


> After 69 years of trying and throwing in the towel more often than the corner of an under-achieving boxer Leper has learnt to swim properly.



Nice one fella! I was handy enough when I was younger but haven't swam for years. Must put it, along with a rake of other stuff you've mentioned, on _the list_!


----------



## LS400

Well done Leper,

Your a model for the Lee River swim. Put your name down next year...


----------



## Leper

First let me thank you all for your encouragement and I appreciate your well wishes. I'll answer the questions raised honestly and fill in what I think you may also be asking.

Prologue:- Since my late teens I could do a respectable breaststroke but never got my hair wet (I kid you not). The only part of my head that got wet was my chin and for years I got away with this. Front crawl and backstroke were each a no-no as I got exhausted due to not being able to breathe properly or use energy efficiently. I would have taken lessons but Covid put paid to that. Mrs Lep gave me a present of swimming pool membership in a local hotel swimming pool. I'm not one to waste much and from the 1st day of validation of the membership I used the pool. After 10 minutes I became exhausted and the showers were the only place to be on my first visit.

Course of Events:- There was nobody else to blame for my bad swimming techniques. Youtube became my swim-help friend. Early on I knew that taking swimming tips from Phelps or Spitz was a waste of time. Some of the Australian professional coaches were beyond me too. Even members of the GB Olympic swimming team did nothing for me. All were too good and too fast and too complicated as I could barely do a doggy paddle before adjourning to the hotter jacuzzi and hoped nobody noticed me.

My swimwear consists of GAA shorts complete with three red stripes and O'Neills written on one leg (if it's good enough for Paul Mescil of Private Lives, it's good enough for me). The elastic had stretched to its limit but I could still tie the lace at the waist. My cloth swimming hat was only 20 years old with red sides and white forehead to neck top. At least I wasn't head to toe in Adidas lycra budgie smugglers. Even my flip flops were Penneys. Consequently, I had less to lose.

Fear of water or drowning was replaced with mortification of looking stunningly stupid. But, you have to get over this and the sight of a bright light at the end a tunnel was more welcome than the cynical stares of ten year olds who were whizzing past you like torpedoes.

Your first ten minutes of mortification are the worst. After this there is only one way to go. I started at the pool wall kicking, splashing, ducking my head under the water. Then I'd take two/three steps back and glide to the wall again getting fully immersed in the water.  How I wished I could swim ten metres without stopping for breath or distressed exhaustion or bashing in to some innocent pool user who'd look at you like you were the sole cause of Covid.

I don't wish to sound like a pervert, but women are less muscular than us and by watching them on Youtube you learn the whole process is down to technique. Amateur women swimmers swim more slowly and gracefully than the male of the species and you learn more by watching their efforts than say some bronzed hairless six-pack-male god.

There is no Main Eureka moment but there are several single Eureka moments i.e. when you learn to breathe properly, kick efficiently, use arm strokes effectively, how to conserve energy, use of swivel technique and my greatest moment to glide without burn out.

No other swimmer will inform you of your bad technique or even offer advice. The whole process is up to you. I use the pool at least four sessions per week and sometimes five sessions. Even if the pool is packed I'd go in and use the 40/50 mins as productively as I could. The more stupid I looked, the more I persevered. I never used the designated swimming lane. I'd have caused a pile up there like you never saw even on the Red Cow Roundabout.

Once you can swim 40 metres breathing correctly and not getting into distressed exhaustion and in a straight line it's only a matter of a short time before you'll be swimming 1000metres. After that 1500 metres is a doddle, but swim at the pace you are most comfortable. Enjoy yourself otherwise you're swimming against the tide. Take your time; you're not trying to qualify for the Olympics.

It's a year since I started with long interruptions due to Covid, but I don't care. I enjoy my swims, have made some friends in the pool and perhaps before I go to Spain I can now buy some Adidas budgie smugglers and not look stupid.

Weight Loss:- The first stone rolled off easily and unexpectedly (wasn't a goal for me). But, I fed off the success and gave up all sweets, biscuits, reducing intake of white bread and the second stone rolled off too. The third stone loss was more difficult but it came and I ain't complaining. Mrs Lep loves to bake and still I'm her best eating fan, but no other treats including ice-cream or chocolate.


----------



## Black Sheep

Well done Leper! What a fantastic achievement. I live fairly close to the sea for the past forty years and walk on the beach most days but never managed to get my ankles wet. Even getting my face wet in the shower is a problem for me so I have great admiration for those who get stuck in.
I think I'll stick to walking for now.


----------



## SoylentGreen

Black Sheep said:


> Even getting my face wet in the shower is a problem for me so I have great admiration for those who get stuck in.


I have been known not to stay in a hotel that has only rain showers. I look to see if they have the hand held flexible hose variety.  There are many hotels that got carried away installing rain/monsoon shower heads in all their bathrooms.


----------



## Black Sheep

The question has been asked as to how us oldies fill in our days. Thankfully I don't have a problem with that.
The plans made when you first retire change along the way as you get older.
We were probably among the lucky ones who retired gradually. Mr. Blacksheep took redundancy in his late fifties from a very stressful job with long hours. It was a bit of a shock at the time, but with kids gone and mortgage cleared we knew wee'd survive. Jobs in his area of expertise are rare, however he's a grafter and was willing to take anything to keep us ticking over. I still had my part time job. He found a job in a completely different area with a standard 8 hour day and little responsibility. Great!  2 years later he was headhunted to the job of his dreams in his own field with 4 day week and short hours well paid. That lasted a few years and phased out as it came closer to retirement age, as in 3 days, then 2 days and finally 1 day per week right up age 70.   I would highly recommend this method of retirement to anyone who can get it.

At first there was plenty of DIY in both house and garden but as we get older we now only do the bare essentials and get in the local handyman as required. When you get a call from one of the family saying Hey Dad the car would't start this morning or the heating didn't come on you know immediately what that means, Either can I borrow your car or the kids need a lift to school or pop over here with your tool box.

I have always been a seamstress and made lots of clothes for myself and the kids back in the day. Nowadays I still do some bits and pieces. I've just reupholstered a couple of armchairs and made some curtains. During the first lockdown I roped in my granddaughter and we made hundreds of masks. It was a new experience for her to use a sewing machine and she turned it into a project for her TY school year.

I'm also involved with local meals on wheels and play bridge a couple of nights a week.

We like to travel, a few short breaks in Ireland, January, March and November usually and abroad (Spain) end of April into May. June and September are for France. These dates are pretty much set in stone by now so no babysitting requests will be heard at those dates.

Ah yes the baby sitting.  It was clear from day one we were not going to be the regular childminders. We love our grandchildren dearly but not everyday thanks. We do of course some childminding and cover all emergencies for them. Now they have grown up but not quite old enough to be left overnight it's called grannysitting.

I can't remember ever having time to be bored and there's always the books to be read that are still on the long finger.


----------



## noproblem

Firefly said:


> Must put it, along with a rake of other stuff you've mentioned, on _the list_!


A long time since I heard that phrase, "a rake of stuff", love it. Might be a west of Ireland bloodline there somewhere?


----------



## PaddyBloggit

The thread has lots of couples enjoying their golden years together.

So how what's the experience of somebody who is single with retirement?


----------



## noproblem

PaddyBloggit said:


> The thread has lots of couples enjoying their golden years together.
> 
> So how what's the experience of somebody who is single with retirement?


You might need to ask that on Tender


----------



## Cervelo

noproblem said:


> You might need to ask that on Tender


What's Tender, is it a new dating site for sensitive souls


----------



## noproblem

Cervelo said:


> What's Tender, is it a new dating site for sensitive souls


Sort of, but for Snowflakes really, it melts their gentle little hearteens


----------



## Leper

noproblem said:


> Sort of, but for Snowflakes really, it melts their gentle little hearteens


To quote from a Netflix series I watched recently "I ain't no Cupid" but three of the over-60's people who rented our Spanish apartment during winter/spring year after year have met their new non Spanish partner in the south of Spain and are still in long term relationship and now spend several weeks of the year in Spain, the UK and Ireland. I have no intention of changing the name of the apartment to "Lisdoonvarna" (I'm just imagining the Burgessmeister and his side-kick, what's-his-name L... Le . . . Leo  or whatever squirming in their seats wondering what I'll say next, but I won't say anything). But, it's a much better option than Tinder, Tender or whatever.

With respect if any retired single person feels like making new friends in the winter/spring, Spain could be  the place and take in some sunshine along the way. I've tried to word the post so that I wouldn't have a future Command Performance in the Small Claims Court.

If anybody thinks I'm spiffing, I ain't. [forgive my bad use of English language]


----------



## Marco 1972

Leper said:


> In my attempt to get this subject back on topic I'm going to come clean here and let you all in one of my secrets.
> 
> [Roll of Drums; Loud Organ Music and a Clash of cymbals],
> 
> After 69 years of trying and throwing in the towel more often than the corner of an under-achieving boxer Leper has learnt to swim properly.
> 
> Not just proper breast-stroke, but proper back-stroke, front crawl (with bilateral breathing) and finally can do 1500 metres without stopping. I can do further, but I'm enjoying the experience so much I'm progressing further slowly but steadily. Tumble turns next and that should be interesting!
> 
> This didn't just happen overnight. I spent hours in the pool (at quiet times) learning stroke by stroke, proper breathing, good leg propulsion, sound balance and proper positioning of head, shoulders, arms, elbows, hand and stomach (yes stomach!) and of course the strict swivel and recovery.
> 
> If you are looking for something to do during retirement, just bite the bullet, swallow a lot of humble pie and take out membership in your nearest clean swimming pool. Incidentally, I lost nearly 3 stone along the way too.


Swimming is great and really miss it too, great for cardio and all round supplements, but boy do you feel hungry after it....


----------



## Marco 1972

Sounds the life,  must be a truism that as you get older the harder it is to winter in a country,  especially ours with dull, dank climate,,   love those 'new life in sun' type shows,  amazing how many English have decamped to the Mediterranean, be interesting to see the % figures for the Irish....


----------



## Firefly

Leper said:


> but three of the over-60's people who rented our Spanish apartment during winter/spring year after year have met their new non Spanish partner in the south of Spain and are still in long term relationship and now spend several weeks of the year in Spain, the UK and Ireland.


Same partner?


----------



## Leper

Firefly said:


> Same partner?


Firefly, You're a terrible man! You're calling into question my ultra Roman Catholic Typical Irish Mother Upbringing. Next you'll want me to go to Confession.


----------



## kinnjohn

Leper said:


> Firefly, You're a terrible man! You're calling into question my ultra Roman Catholic Typical Irish Mother Upbringing. Next you'll want me to go to Confession.


Before or after the connie dodger,


----------



## Leper

kinnjohn said:


> Before or after the connie dodger,


Mother of the Sufferin' Jehosephat KinnJohn you'll have to explain to those who live within the Pale what a Connie Dodger is. I could do it, but they'd think I'm lecturing them.


----------



## Cervelo

This is one of the little things that I love about AAM, people using words that I've never heard of or used before!!
A quick google search informs me a "Connie Dodger" is a small plate sized digestive biscuit eaten during lent
But I'm guessing there might be a different understanding of the name with the good people from the south??


----------



## Buddyboy

Indeed, in Cork Bishop Cornelius Lucey stipulated that during Lent, only one biscuit could be enjoyed with your tea.
The good bakers of Cork started making biscuits the size of dinner plates to get around the rule.
Hence "Connie Dodgers"


----------



## PaddyBloggit

12 posts in response to my 'single and retirement' query but not one actually dealing with it.

Retirement sounds great if you have someone to share it with.

What if you don't?


----------



## Monbretia

PaddyBloggit said:


> 12 posts in response to my 'single and retirement' query but not one actually dealing with it.
> 
> Retirement sounds great if you have someone to share it with.
> 
> What if you don't?


It's a bit of a pain really!  Not that I want someone but the world is geared towards couples really especially holiday wise, costs way more to get hotel room on your own, haven't looked at apartments but surely the same situation.   Definitely not as many options I think unless you are the sort of person who doesn't mind joining all sorts of random clubs for different interests.

I remember my old career guidance teacher telling me not to put the hobbies I actually had on CVs as they were all solitary pursuits, he said it looked bad and I should include more team time hobbies even though I had none!  Same would apply now, all hobbies and I have many are ones you do on your own, makes one feel a bit of an outsider sometimes but sure can't change the basic personality make up at this stage!


----------



## kinnjohn

Just to kick this off from a male retiree,
Hope single retired males share their lifestyles after retiring,
Hope  single retired Females share their lifestyles after retiring,

I  known several retirees who are single who I meet up with since I retired, the females seem to have a different lifestyle than the males,
When I retired at 62 up until the  first covid outbreak from around the first week in April until the end of May I kind of live a single life I travel around Europe, once the weather gets good in Ireland I am ordered back into the fold for the summer,

I used  flixbus to travel  see their European map I fly to an airport on their route, they do have offers from time to time for 99 euros this allows you to travel anywhere on their European network 6 travel passes, It says on the small print you can only go in one direction, if you travel from London to France you need a different pass if coming back the same way, to get around this I buy 2 off 99 euro travel passes but to be honest, I don't ever remember having to use them, I fly home or fly to Spain to meet up with she who has to be obeyed,


 another good site I use is ( the man in seat 61) a great site for anyone single  who  loves the trains,
You meet lots of retired males from Ireland and UK and USA , some of us meet up every year on our travels,

I walk and hike some of the time other times I hit on an area I like and stay there until I have seen all i want to see and move on,
I regret I did not retire a few years earlier, Ireland is a great place to spend your retirement, I don't know how I ever had time to work there is so much to enjoy and take up your time,


----------



## Firefly

kinnjohn said:


> I don't know how I ever had time to work there is so much to enjoy and take up your time,


That's really great to hear!


----------



## kinnjohn

Firefly said:


> That's really great to hear!


Just one other thing, I find the Irish weather has improved since I retired It now seems like the same weather we had when I was a child, the funny thing is people still working are always complaining how bad the weather is,


----------



## mary poppins

I am late 40's and planning to retire in 10 years time, assuming all goes to plan.  Thoroughly enjoying reading about your active lives in retirement.  I am mostly worried about boredom after the initial flurry of post retirement activity is over.  I am used to an action packed day with work and the kids.


----------



## Leper

mary poppins said:


> I am late 40's and planning to retire in 10 years time, assuming all goes to plan.  Thoroughly enjoying reading about your active lives in retirement.  I am mostly worried about boredom after the initial flurry of post retirement activity is over.  I am used to an action packed day with work and the kids.


1. I'm sorry that I didn't retire earlier than 65 - understatement too. 
2. Out for my nightly walk last evening I was walking behind two "I need to be challenged" Cork Clitterati talking about leadership qualities and how much they had of them and how their staff wouldn't recognise leadership if it hit them in the face. The more I eavesdropped the more I love Mrs Lep. 
3. I said it before and I'll say it again, you can't have a rat-race without rats.
4. Like Mary Poppins is worried about being bored - believe me, retirement if done right doesn't recognise boredom.


----------



## Firefly

mary poppins said:


> I am mostly worried about boredom after the initial flurry of post retirement activity is over.  I am used to an action packed day with work and the kids.


Hi,

I think this is a valid concern and someone I know who retired recently was in a similar situation and it took them the guts of 6 months to integrate. There are some great tips already in this thread, but I wonder if any of those retired could offer some tips for the first 3 months?


----------



## Leper

Firefly said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think this is a valid concern and someone I know who retired recently was in a similar situation and it took them the guts of 6 months to integrate. There are some great tips already in this thread, but I wonder if any of those retired could offer some tips for the first 3 months?


Get stuck into retirement from Day 1. Nobody is going to retire for you, you've got to get on with your own retirement. Do some of the things you said you'd do during the initial  three months. And get on with it. Don't wait for something to happen; make it happen.

GAA clubs are always looking for people to give a hand. Art classes are available nearly everywhere. Tidy the garden. Paint whatever must be painted in the house. Take more exercise. Look up old friends. Bake more, cook more. Read more. Walk more. Get Netflix. Update your record collection with CD's (available in most Charity shops). Get out and enjoy.


----------



## mary poppins

Leper said:


> 1. I'm sorry that I didn't retire earlier than 65 - understatement too.
> 2. Out for my nightly walk last evening I was walking behind two "I need to be challenged" Cork Clitterati talking about leadership qualities and how much they had of them and how their staff wouldn't recognise leadership if it hit them in the face. The more I eavesdropped the more I love Mrs Lep.
> 3. I said it before and I'll say it again, you can't have a rat-race without rats.
> 4. Like Mary Poppins is worried about being bored - believe me, retirement if done right doesn't recognise boredom.


My main motivation in retiring before 60 is so I can travel and spend most of the winter abroad.  I rekon I will have 10 to 15 years of good health and mobility and then chances are the body will want to slow down and ai will spend more time here in Dublin.   My financial planning is all geared around making that happen.  I would rather have those good years while I still can than store money for the twilight years. I am very much just tolerating the rat race meantime.

Edit to add, Dublin in the summer is a glorious place to be.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Our aim is to split our time between here and the Algarve. January, February, March, and April in Portugal, but I’ll come over and back for the Six Nations games. Mrs Gekko might pop back here and there as well. We’ll always be happy to host close friends and close family.

May to September inclusive in Ireland, with some trips elsewhere thrown in. I agree that Ireland’s a great place in the summer.

October and November in Portugal, with the odd trip over and back to see the kids and to go to the marquee November Internationals.

And then December in Ireland; Christmas and December in Ireland is fantastic.


----------



## Marco 1972

mary poppins said:


> My main motivation in retiring before 60 is so I can travel and spend most of the winter abroad.  I rekon I will have 10 to 15 years of good health and mobility and then chances are the body will want to slow down and ai will spend more time here in Dublin.   My financial planning is all geared around making that happen.  I would rather have those good years while I still can than store money for the twilight years. I am very much just tolerating the rat race meantime.
> 
> Edit to add, Dublin in the summer is a glorious place to be.


That's a good approach and one l am aiming for and l am 49. Also l figure that many younger people glibly accepting 30-40 yr mortgages and retirement at 70 haven't a clue nor do Gov peddling myth that people will be able or want to work into late 60s...


----------



## SlugBreath

Gordon Gekko said:


> Our aim is to split our time between here and the Algarve. January, February, March, and April in Portugal, but I’ll come over and back for the Six Nations games. Mrs Gekko might pop back here and there as well. We’ll always be happy to host close friends and close family.


We want to do this.  However, we have this awful fear of leaving our home unoccupied for such a long time.  We are already retired. We have family that could each visit once a week (so two visits per week). 

I know that these thoughts are irrational........ but they linger.

We can afford to fly back home every so often to "check on stuff" but we both hate flying. We have even considered getting boat to France, then train all the way down to Valencia area. Road trip kind of thing but we could not do this every month.

The plan would be to have a base in Spain and then use that base to have nights away, staying in hotels in other areas of Spain/ Portugal.


----------



## DeeKie

We are late forties. I plan to semi-retire in some way at 55ish. Take a 9-5 job of some type, try to negotiate an unpaid month or two off. And actually take my holidays. I love this thread. It’s getting me thinking the right way.


----------



## Mechman

I’m 56 now myself, Mrs is a year younger.

My DC pension fund isn’t well enough stuffed yet, and working now on house upgrades over the next 4 years. 

This thread makes me want to retire soon as possible and the thoughts of winter in Portugal, Canaries, Greece or Sicily is so appealing.

I’m checking in here every day and dreaming.I don’t ever imagine I’d be bore in retirement, so much to do at weekends now, they pass in a blink!


----------



## peemac

PaddyBloggit said:


> The thread has lots of couples enjoying their golden years together.
> 
> So how what's the experience of somebody who is single with retirement?


To give a more realistic answer - look at something like Toastmasters.

You can be a member of one club and build public speaking & leadership skills and that's what most members do.

Then you have members that will enter the various contests to challenge themselves, thus immerse themselves further.

Many members will join the club committee/leadership group that is part of the learning.

But that just the start..

You can join a 2nd club, you can be a guest at any club in the world, you can become area, district, division leader in various roles.


You then also build up skills of a MC - that opens many opportunities.


Some people stay as a member for 2-3 years, others will stay for 20+ years. And if you like travelling, the chances are there's a club near whatever place you travel to, and you effectively find you have friends there.

To give an example - I'm currently in a officer training conference. 486 zoom attendees from Ireland and UK and got invited to make a speech in the Inverness club when I'm in Scotland in Sept. One of their members works in a distillery and he'll give me a personal tour. - Rinse and repeat all over the world


----------



## niceoneted

I'm 48 and can retire in just over 3 years with DB pension. Plan is for spouse - same age to go to a 4 day week (if it is not in by then) and to reduce down to a 3 day week at 56, followed by retirement at 60. We have enjoyed life so far but are wise with our money so as we could plan this. we had our children late so we won't be in a position to be swanning off all the time during school terms but will not miss the commute and rush to get everything done around the house and be squeezing in visits with friends etc. I'm totally loving this thread.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

If you can, and it’s probably more achievable post pandemic with the drive towards more flexible work practices, transitioning from 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 day a week makes a lot of sense.

I’d love to do that from age 55/56.

Mrs Gekko can step back at age 60 on a full pension and we’re the same age, so my plan is to mirror that.

Then it’s travel travel travel, health permitting.

I’m starting to think more about health than money in this context to be honest. Diet and exercise are more important that investments.


----------



## niceoneted

Working towards a healthier lifestyle ourselves, and trying out lots of home cooked foods since the pandemic started, more so. its been great.


----------



## SlugBreath

Mechman said:


> My DC pension fund isn’t well enough stuffed yet, and working now on house upgrades over the next 4 years.


My private pension is not that big. Both myself and my wife have qualified for the full state pension. Make sure you check out the contributions that you will need to qualify before you reduce your working week before retirement.

We don't have an extravagant lifestyle at all. Non smokers, light drinkers. No big cars, fancy clothes, hairstylists, bling etc. But we spend on overseas holidays. Staying in hotels or apartments in different countries. I don't think that we would ever purchase abroad as we like to go to different places/countries. All though we do have a few favourite places that we often said we could easily move to. I have joined a few expat Facebook pages about living in France and Spain. There are dozens of very interesting posts on these pages every day. From where to buy Marmite, get a washing machine fixed, bugs, buying houses, living abroad....most of these are UK posters, you can see how much Brexit has impacted on their retirement plans abroad. Well worth joining.

Just to pass a comment to Mechman.  You don't need a huge amount of money to retire on. It's amazing how little money you actually spend.


----------



## mary poppins

SlugBreath said:


> We don't have an extravagant lifestyle at all. Non smokers, light drinkers. No big cars, fancy clothes, hairstylists, bling etc. But we spend on overseas holidays. Staying in hotels or apartments in different countries. I don't think that we would ever purchase abroad as we like to go to different places/countries. All though we do have a few favourite places that we often said we could easily move to.


I could have written that!  We are exactly the same.  When we got promoted and earned more our outgoings stayed mostly the same.  We live well within our means. Mortgage paid off last year thanks to a small inheritance.  Our one extravagance is holidays.  I can live on very little but I love a glass of wine, beside the sea, after a swim, and a nice meal!  I will have to find more hobbies to avoid turning into a raging alcoholic in retirement!!


----------



## bitethebullet

Intriguing thread. I'm 50 and would love  to retire from the rat race. Pretty stressful job  and it's shift work also with a lot of night shifts. I find as I get older that it's taking more of a toll on me both emotionally and physically. Trouble is in my line of work it's almost all shift.  
I'm lucky I just paid off the mortgage but I've two teens. Would love to try something completely different career wise but I'm a little anxious as to what to do.  I'm a pretty decent musician and would love to commit 100% to that.  
The shift always ruined any chances before due to the hours and always working weekends.


----------



## Marco 1972

Gordon Gekko said:


> If you can, and it’s probably more achievable post pandemic with the drive towards more flexible work practices, transitioning from 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 day a week makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I’d love to do that from age 55/56.
> 
> Mrs Gekko can step back at age 60 on a full pension and we’re the same age, so my plan is to mirror that.
> 
> Then it’s travel travel travel, health permitting.
> 
> I’m starting to think more about health than money in this context to be honest. Diet and exercise are more important that investments.


That's a good plan, I would be keen when the day comes to have the option of moving to part time work to have some spare change coming in,, keep hearing that in the future there will be greater need for experienced people or more pertinently people with life experience, especially as the ratio of workers to pensioners reduces.....


----------



## noproblem

bitethebullet said:


> Intriguing thread. I'm 50 and would love  to retire from the rat race. Pretty stressful job  and it's shift work also with a lot of night shifts. I find as I get older that it's taking more of a toll on me both emotionally and physically. Trouble is in my line of work it's almost all shift.
> I'm lucky I just paid off the mortgage but I've two teens. Would love to try something completely different career wise but I'm a little anxious as to what to do.  I'm a pretty decent musician and would love to commit 100% to that.
> The shift always ruined any chances before due to the hours and always working weekends.


Well, the choice is yours. Then again, if you have 2 teens you'll need plenty of dosh if they're going to go to college, etc, never mind yourself and herself. Just coz the mortgage is paid off doesn't mean you live on fresh air. Before you start out on the self employed route, work out how much you earn in the year with all taxes paid, etc, in your present employment. What might you earn working for yourself and do you understand how to "do the books" and what will you be left with each week? It's lovely to have the freedom of being self employed, but try earning what you get each week from your present employment, you might be surprised how difficult it is to get money in. Also, see what covid has done to musicians careers and the likes, who says we won't have more of those epidemics in the future? Sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for.


----------



## mickeyg

Someone posted earlier (SlugBreath??) "Just to pass a comment to Mechman.  You don't need a huge amount of money to retire on. It's amazing how little money you actually spend."
I know that this is sort of how long is a piece of string question but for a couple in mid 60s, no mortgage, would like 2/3 months each year in the sun, not extravagant lifestyle by any means, how much approx. would they need each month €3k./€4k. ?????


----------



## garbanzo

mickeyg said:


> Someone posted earlier (SlugBreath??) "Just to pass a comment to Mechman.  You don't need a huge amount of money to retire on. It's amazing how little money you actually spend."
> I know that this is sort of how long is a piece of string question but for a couple in mid 60s, no mortgage, would like 2/3 months each year in the sun, not extravagant lifestyle by any means, how much approx. would they need each month €3k./€4k. ?????


Good thread here on it mickeyg:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/retiring-early-–-how-did-you-do-it.215643/


----------



## Gordon Gekko

mickeyg said:


> Someone posted earlier (SlugBreath??) "Just to pass a comment to Mechman.  You don't need a huge amount of money to retire on. It's amazing how little money you actually spend."
> I know that this is sort of how long is a piece of string question but for a couple in mid 60s, no mortgage, would like 2/3 months each year in the sun, not extravagant lifestyle by any means, how much approx. would they need each month €3k./€4k. ?????


I think €5k a month in today’s money is a really good number.


----------



## horusd

I took early retirement (medical grounds, a number of years ago). A friend is due to retire shortly at 55. Also early retirement. He can't wait to be gone. My one bit of advice (some great advice here) is to have a structure to the week. I do two 1/2 days volunteering. It keeps me involved with people and the world. I wouldn't give it up for anything.


----------



## David_Dublin

Gordon Gekko said:


> I think €5k a month in today’s money is a really good number.


That seems a lot - would you have any high level breakdown?


----------



## Marco 1972

Gordon Gekko said:


> I think €5k
> 
> 
> Gordon Gekko said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think €5k a month in today’s money is a really good number.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that 5k per person or as a couple...
Click to expand...




Gordon Gekko said:


> a month in today’s money is a really good number.


----------



## Up Rovers

horusd said:


> I took early retirement (medical grounds, a number of years ago). A friend is due to retire shortly at 55. Also early retirement. He can't wait to be gone. My one bit of advice (some great advice here) is to have a structure to the week. I do two 1/2 days volunteering. It keeps me involved with people and the world. I wouldn't give it up for anything.



Hope you don't mind me asking but what do you volunteer at?  I am thinking of volunteering myself but Covid can make this tricky.  I have had a quick look at https://www.volunteer.ie/


----------



## niceoneted

Up rovers in anticipation of my retirement in a few years I've started getting involved in local groups .  You could get involved with local tidy towns, town development groups, residents association, men's sheds, alone, meals on wheels


----------



## horusd

Up Rovers said:


> Hope you don't mind me asking but what do you volunteer at?  I am thinking of volunteering myself but Covid can make this tricky.  I have had a quick look at https://www.volunteer.ie/


I volunteer in Oxfam now, but I also used to teach as a volunteer in a few locations. Usually people who had issues in early education or challenged in various ways.  It is so rewarding.


----------



## Sarenco

mickeyg said:


> I know that this is sort of how long is a piece of string question but for a couple in mid 60s, no mortgage, would like 2/3 months each year in the sun, not extravagant lifestyle by any means, how much approx. would they need each month €3k./€4k. ?????


We discussed that topic recently on this thread -




__





						Retirement spend. A calculator or list of assumptions?
					

Hi all,  There are numerous calculators for savings and pension pot size, but is there something to forecast retirement spend?  One of the first articles at the top of a google search is a Motley Fool one suggest 80% of pre-retirement income. That seems very excessive for anyone who is fortunate...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				



Most surveys/studies seem to suggest that a (net) income of around €50k pa would fund a very comfortable lifestyle for most couples, with a mortgage-free home.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

David_Dublin said:


> That seems a lot - would you have any high level breakdown?


It’s €5k for a couple just to answer Marco’s question.


----------



## SlugBreath

I find that €3k per month is more than enough to fund our lifestyle but then again I am as happy having a panini or Menu del Dia rather than something more gourmet.
If the local bus or train is going to our holiday location then I will take the local bus. We only use taxis when there is no local service.  Happy to shop and wait for Ryanair specials or similar.
At home we shop around for good deals on insurance and utility bills. Use supermarket websites to see what this weeks deals are and vouchers as needed.
We like to upgrade our rooms in hotels though. Sea view, larger room etc.  Prefer hotels or apartments in the middle of things rather than a mile out of town.


----------



## DublinHead54

When I returned to Ireland one thing I found quite strange / comical was advertising for the over 60s (sometimes as low as the over 50s). It was all about funeral insurance or life insurance for when you die, almost as if once you hit your 60s you are just waiting to die. 

This thread is a great example that life is far from over in retirement!


----------



## Marco 1972

Everything advertised for over 50s, but featuring fix o dent types in their 70s,  but hey we are all going to live till 120 and work into out 70s according to Gov, or later if the the avocado toast types are still paying off mortgages...


----------



## David_Dublin

Dublinbay12 said:


> When I returned to Ireland one thing I found quite strange / comical was advertising for the over 60s (sometimes as low as the over 50s). It was all about funeral insurance or life insurance for when you die, almost as if once you hit your 60s you are just waiting to die.


Try watching Golf on Sky Sports - ads for hearing aids, erectile dysfunction, equity release etc. Not very subtle!


----------



## LondonIrish

I had a few drinks over the weekend with a friend in his mid-50s who retired 4 years ago. He is an accountant who had a big job in one of the big 4 firms which involved a long hours, stress and a lot of travel. He described the initial period of his retirement as unsettling, especially from a financial perspective because he arrived at this decision relatively quickly and had not made any real financial plans. After a period of belt-tightening he began to relax and now describes the decision to retire early as the best one he ever made (out of earshot of his wife I guess!).

He also mentioned that out of a fear of being bored he over-volunteered for various charities which took him some time to extricate himself from. I guess that faced with so much free time he felt the need to do something productive with it but then regretted his initial enthusiasm.


----------



## SlugBreath

I suppose it is a bit like summer/winter.  When the winter is here I say that when the summer comes I will be out every day, going here there and everywhere. I will use my free travel pass until it wears away.  Then when summer arrives I don't actually do these things.  Yes, I use my travel pass to go from my home down to Ballsbridge/Donnybrook for a stroll around the park or out to DunLaoghaire for a stroll on the pier....but not every day.
I find just pottering about the place even more relaxing.  Knowing that the warm weather is out there is enough for me. I can dip in and out as needs be. I have been watching the Tour de France on TG4 most days. Just sitting there with the patio door open, sunny day outside, nice breeze coming in. Some days I might just get the urge to treat myself to a Big Mac or takeout pizza....head off for a stroll and get a take out coffee.

Then I get my guilty days where I feel that the "job jar" needs to be looked at so. So some cleaning, painting, tidying up type jobs get done.

I am not sure that I would purchase abroad, even though I have the funds to do so. I am me, so initially I would do all the tourist type things but eventually I would end up doing what I do at home, except I would be doing it in Spain or France or where ever.

In retirement, I find that deciding on the day, with a few changeable plans is the way to go. Spontaneous is a nice term.

Having good health is very important.


----------



## Leper

LondonIrish said:


> He also mentioned that out of a fear of being bored he over-volunteered for various charities which took him some time to extricate himself from. I guess that faced with so much free time he felt the need to do something productive with it but then regretted his initial enthusiasm.


In my 3+ years of retirement, almost every month one of my former colleagues contacts me with "Hey Lep, we need some help with work or fundraising for whatever "charity." On obliging, I found that it became "Hey Lep, we want you to continue the work as we're fed up of doing" or "I want to get out of my promises and your help will help" etc. All that is fine if you want to commit time and effort, but if if like me, you are fed up with people asking to give something back don't be embarrassed to say "No." 

Anyway, heading to Spain for August, bought one way tickets; don't know when we'll be returning, but if Cork get into the All Ireland final, it could be sooner than planned. But, we'll be off to Spain again a few days later.


----------



## mtk

A confession : I haven't done any volunteering  yet. so feeling guilty with all of you "over volunteering"!


----------



## horusd

@Leper I have a one-way to Spain in September. Bring IT on!


----------



## Nordkapp

@Leper enjoy, looking to hit the campsites in Andalusia in September myself but keeping options open.
BTW chances of Cork reaching the all Ireland hurling final are remote


----------



## Salvadore

I recently went on a good pre-retirement course which dealt with a range of topics including tax, inheritance, lifestyle etc. I thought nothing in it would come as news but these were my main takeaways (in no particular order)

1. Your priority for retirement should be your health followed by your finances.

2. Retirement is the first time in your life where your structure isn’t dictated by other factors  (I.e. school, college, work). Dealing with this is more of a challenge than you might immediately consider.

3. The free time you have in retirement is time you’ve earned. How you choose to spend it should be your decision only. Others will invariably think that you’re now free to ‘help out’. Don’t feel pressurised to respond just because your diary may be otherwise free.

4. Never begin a day without having planned something to do that day, however minor it might be. That’s a recipe for unhappiness.

5. Make a conscious effort to contact people in person, however difficult it may be at the outset. And don’t take in personally if these efforts aren’t alway reciprocated.

There was lots more good advice but they’re the bits I took particular note of.


----------



## noproblem

Leper said:


> Anyway, heading to Spain for August, bought one way tickets; don't know when we'll be returning, but if Cork get into the All Ireland final, it could be sooner than planned. But, we'll be off to Spain again a few days later.


No fear of it being sooner, enjoy the long "unbroken" stay


----------



## Cervelo

mickeyg said:


> I know that this is sort of how long is a piece of string question but for a couple in mid 60s, no mortgage, would like 2/3 months each year in the sun, not extravagant lifestyle by any means, how much approx. would they need each month €3k./€4k. ?????





Gordon Gekko said:


> I think €5k a month in today’s money is a really good number.





Sarenco said:


> Most surveys/studies seem to suggest that a (net) income of around €50k pa would fund a very comfortable lifestyle for most couples, with a mortgage-free home.


It is very much an open ended question and really depends on what type of lifestyle an individual or couple wants to pursue in retirement
While €5k per month and €50k a year might seem like excessive amounts to some people I can see very easily how this much can be spent and then some when providing for a "very comfortable" lifestyle but the thing is everybody's Idea of "very comfortable" is going to be different

I've mentioned here a few times that I track all of our spending and have been doing it consistently on Excel for the last 20 odd years.
It has given me a great insight into how and where I have been spending but more importantly it gives me a fairly rock solid idea of how much money I'm going to need for essential and non-essential spending for the coming year and the foreseeable future.

So for pig-iron, we are a mid fifties retired couple living in a 3 bed semi D with no kids or loans of any kind
Essential spending for us is all our grocery shopping, all utility bills, all running costs for two cars, medical insurance and all other medical expenses (very small at the moment), eating out at least once a month and a takeaway once a week and any small house or appliance repairs or replacements.
This cost has averaged out over the last five years at €15k per year, I should add that there is plenty of wiggle room in that should the need arise
Non-essential spending is everything else like personal spending, foreign travel, cigarettes for herself, cycling stuff for myself etc etc
Its hard to put an actual figure on this as it can very so much from year to year compared to the essential spending but the average spend per year would be somewhere €20k and €25k
Our most expensive year was 2018 where we spent just shy of €50k but this included 4 months for me in Spain, a week for herself visiting me in Spain, a two week road trip with herself traveling back from Spain, a months road trip in North east America and finally a week for herself in Spain with a friend (travel total just shy of €23k)
So for us €35k to €40k a year usually is more than enough to provide us a "very comfortable" lifestyle with a good bit of foreign travel



PaddyBloggit said:


> The thread has lots of couples enjoying their golden years together.
> So how what's the experience of somebody who is single with retirement?


I know your question is aimed at a single persons experience but I would just like to add that I don't think a persons relationship status should be a barrier to a person enjoying their life, if there is something you would like to do or some place you'd like to travel to don't be afraid to give it a go just because your single, you never know where it might lead you to and likewise if you're coupled up and would like to do something that you know your partner would have no interest in, talk to them you might be surprised by their answer


----------



## Roro999

My dad keeps a record too.  Excluding mortgage it was 40k in 2020 and on course for 40k this year he tells me.  Includes a car loan repayment of 4k. Holidays included at approx 3k.  Like Cervelo my dad and mother now in their late 60's live a very comfortable lifestyle.


----------



## David_Dublin

Cervelo said:


> I know your question is aimed at a single persons experience but I would just like to add that *I don't think a persons relationship status should be a barrier to a person enjoying their life*, if there is something you would like to do or some place you'd like to travel to don't be afraid to give it a go just because your single, you never know where it might lead you to and likewise if you're coupled up and would like to do something that you know your partner would have no interest in, talk to them you might be surprised by their answer


This made me laugh, funny when taken out of context!


----------



## Marco 1972

David_Dublin said:


> This made me laugh, funny when taken out of context!


_funny alright,,  _Though a lot tougher where you cant split the Bill's,,,


----------



## Cervelo

Marco 1972 said:


> _funny alright,,  _Though a lot tougher where you cant split the Bill's,,,


Funny alright, It's a lot cheaper to be single when the other person doesn't go 'dutch'


----------



## Marco 1972

Leper said:


> November to April you can rent a good 2 bedroom apartment in Spain/Portugal/Italy/Greece for less than €750 per month inclusive of utilities etc. You can get rentals for less also, but stick with good locations and resorts that suit you. Unlike Laramie above the time for a glass of something in Spain is 1.45pm just before siesta.


with climate change, a Spanish winter  in 20 years could be like their summers now...


----------



## Black Sheep

But how many of us (now retired for many years) will be around to enjoy those Spanish summers in winter?
I'm happy to look at one year at a time.


----------



## Allpartied

Black Sheep said:


> But how many of us (now retired for many years) will be around to enjoy those Spanish summers in winter?
> I'm happy to look at one year at a time.


If climate change produces 30 degree heat in the Spanish winter, then the country will be uninhabitable. 
So will most of the Mediterranean. 
Maybe, we'll be the lucky ones, who have departed when catastrophic climate change is burning the planet.


----------



## Cervelo

Maybe we should change the thread title to something a little bit more upbeat like,
What to do with your time after retirement but before your demise or God forbid the end of the world


----------



## LondonIrish

Allpartied said:


> If climate change produces 30 degree heat in the Spanish winter, then the country will be uninhabitable.
> So will most of the Mediterranean.
> Maybe, we'll be the lucky ones, who have departed when catastrophic climate change is burning the planet.


*Funny this topic should arise. I’m on holiday in Portugal at the moment and my better half would love a place down here but I’m less keen in part because it has become so expensive and in part because I wonder about the longer term impact of climate change. There’s so many new developments and golf courses down here all competing for water and space that I have to wonder what will the place look like in 10-20 years time when there’s no water available and the summers are too hot. *


----------



## Marco 1972

LondonIrish said:


> *Funny this topic should arise. I’m on holiday in Portugal at the moment and my better half would love a place down here but I’m less keen in part because it has become so expensive and in part because I wonder about the longer term impact of climate change. There’s so many new developments and golf courses down here all competing for water and space that I have to wonder what will the place look like in 10-20 years time when there’s no water available and the summers are too hot. *


by that stage the summers here will be nice and so too the winters in Portugal, we hope........


----------



## OMG_OMG

Gordon Gekko said:


> I think €5k a month in today’s money is a really good number.


We decided on €5k per month too.  Though we find we arent even spending half that now.  Maybe the pandemic has a lot to do with that but I would be surprised if we ended up spending more than €3.5k per month when the pandemic is over.


----------



## noproblem

€5k a month nett is excellent revenue to have. How much would you have to earn gross to take that pay home?


----------



## ClubMan

noproblem said:


> €5k a month nett is excellent revenue to have. How much would you have to earn gross to take that pay home?


About €90k assuming a married couple with one income?


----------



## Marco 1972

Assume no real overheads like mortgage,  that's the killer when working like myself, tax rates, particularly the higher band and the mortgage,


----------



## Protocol

noproblem said:


> €5k a month nett is excellent revenue to have. How much would you have to earn gross to take that pay home?



My retired parents earn approx 52k gross, and pay approx 4,780 in tax and USC.

So they pay approx 9% effective direct tax rate.

From the 52k gross, they get 47k approx net.


----------



## Tintagel

We constantly have the downsizing/rightsizing discussion in our household.  After trimming a number of my garden hedges for the third time this year, the dust gathering in the unused rooms/museums, trying to get a plumber and a painter to do some jobs about the place we will really have to make a decision soon.

A few weeks back I thought that we might like to purchase a south facing apartment.....but after that week of horrendous heat, when sleeping at night was so difficult I am not so sure. Yes, in the autumn and winter time it would be nice but not during the hot summer months...

I like my space. Our existing house has plenty of space both inside and out. I also live on a nice tree lined road that for the most part is relatively quiet. It is nice having breakfast in the garden.

To be honest I think that I am afraid to make the move now. What if it goes wrong?


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Maybe a decent approach would be to hedge one’s bets somewhat and move but keep the house for a while? Then the whole thing could be reversed, with the obvious caveat around a crash in property prices.

For people with the cash to do that, fine. But some people could rent as a means of dipping their toe in the water.

I did think about using a Seniors Money loan, but the main home needs to be your PPR, so that might be a problem.


----------



## Tintagel

I would have about 80% of the cash required to purchase a two bed apartment in the area where I live. A few developments taking place in the area at the moment.  Mount Merrion/Blackrock/Stillorgan.  I could rent out my existing home but would need to spend money on it first to bring it up to the required standard. Maybe about €50k.  I could get a very high rent on my existing home, about €50/€60k per annum. I have never been a landlord so reluctant to get involved.  Though it makes sense to do this as the rent would cover my apartment costs in Ireland and fund a holiday rental abroad.


----------



## Salvadore

I’ve toyed with the idea of buying abroad for retirement purposes but decided against it. Unless you’re very familiar with an area you’re planning on moving to, you’re taking a big chance.

I think renting abroad, particularly in the early stages, is a better option. You have none of the responsibilities of home ownership and you have the flexibility to try a number of different options should you get fed up with any single area.

Also, you want to be able to relax while abroad without having to worry about decorating, upkeep, home insurance, utility bills etc. A cousin of mine bought a beautiful apartment in Italy some years ago but seems to spend his holidays tending to some sort of domestic issue - broken washing machine, residents association issues etc. It’s not all chianti and tiramisu. He also pays about 1000 a year in management fees.

Think also about the lifetime cost. Off season rental in many resorts is very reasonable. You could spend two months abroad for a couple of grand. Over say 20 years, this is a lot less expensive than forking out a six figure sum on some property that you’ll be tied to in the long term.


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## noproblem

Tintagel said:


> I would have about 80% of the cash required to purchase a two bed apartment in the area where I live. A few developments taking place in the area at the moment.  Mount Merrion/Blackrock/Stillorgan.  I could rent out my existing home but would need to spend money on it first to bring it up to the required standard. Maybe about €50k.  I could get a very high rent on my existing home, about €50/€60k per annum. I have never been a landlord so reluctant to get involved.  Though it makes sense to do this as the rent would cover my apartment costs in Ireland and fund a holiday rental abroad.


I don't know what age you are, but I'm presuming you're past retirement age. Do you really want to get involved in the renting game at this stage for a few bob you probably don't need?


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## Salvadore

Y


noproblem said:


> I don't know what age you are, but I'm presuming you're past retirement age. Do you really want to get involved in the renting game at this stage for a few bob you probably don't need?


You could also consider short term corporate lets which might be a bit less hassle, particularly if you want to move back.


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## Gordon Gekko

Or just not bothering to rent it out at all if you’re unsure whether you really want to leave your home.

AirBnB and the like are transformational really in terms of the ability to source good long-term rentals and not having to tie-up too much capital.


----------



## Tintagel

Salvadore said:


> You could spend two months abroad for a couple of grand


Yes. That was the plan. My rental in Ireland would cover the cost of renting abroad.



noproblem said:


> Do you really want to get involved in the renting game at this stage for a few bob you probably don't need?


No. Definitely not.


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## Cervelo

Salvadore said:


> You could also consider short term corporate lets which might be a bit less hassle, particularly if you want to move back.


I'd be thinking the same as Noproblem, if you don't need the extra cash you certainly don't want the extra hassle of dealing with renting
And I would have thought a short term corporate let might be somewhat hassle free renting but would expect that the standard of furnishings and services for a €50/60K a year let would be a lot higher and more expensive to maintain than a normal house letting and would be just as much hassle


----------



## mary poppins

ClubMan said:


> About €90k assuming a married couple with one income?


That is also assuming no pension deductions.


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## mary poppins

Salvadore said:


> I’ve toyed with the idea of buying abroad for retirement purposes but decided against it. Unless you’re very familiar with an area you’re planning on moving to, you’re taking a big chance.
> 
> I think renting abroad, particularly in the early stages, is a better option. You have none of the responsibilities of home ownership and you have the flexibility to try a number of different options should you get fed up with any single area.
> 
> Also, you want to be able to relax while abroad without having to worry about decorating, upkeep, home insurance, utility bills etc. A cousin of mine bought a beautiful apartment in Italy some years ago but seems to spend his holidays tending to some sort of domestic issue - broken washing machine, residents association issues etc. It’s not all chianti and tiramisu. He also pays about 1000 a year in management fees.
> 
> Think also about the lifetime cost. Off season rental in many resorts is very reasonable. You could spend two months abroad for a couple of grand. Over say 20 years, this is a lot less expensive than forking out a six figure sum on some property that you’ll be tied to in the long term.


Same thoughts here. Also I dont want to be tied to a single location. I intend to travel far and wide wherever I feel like at a particular time.  If I get a grá for a particular location I will rent longer term and check it out but I intend to blow most of my savings by the time I am about 75-80 and let the chips fall where they may after that.  Easy to say at my current age, I may feel different when the time comes.


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## Leper

mary poppins said:


> Same thoughts here. Also I dont want to be tied to a single location. I intend to travel far and wide wherever I feel like at a particular time.  If I get a grá for a particular location I will rent longer term and check it out but I intend to blow most of my savings by the time I am about 75-80 and let the chips fall where they may after that.  Easy to say at my current age, I may feel different when the time comes.


I have spoken at length (understatement) about the trials and tribulations of buying property abroad. But, being tied to one locations isn't one of them. One of the advantages of owning property abroad is that you can swop yours for a holiday (even extended holiday) in another location. Mrs Lep and I have done this


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## Roro999

Following on from Leper if one owned a holiday home here and was getting tired of the one location after a few years one could always do a swop too.   Had'nt really thought of that.


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## Gordon Gekko

Or spend less on the holiday home.

e.g. rather than spending €500k, spend €250k.

So it’s not as annoying or as ‘costly’ to go elsewhere.


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## Leper

Gordon Gekko said:


> Or spend less on the holiday home.
> 
> e.g. rather than spending €500k, spend €250k.
> 
> So it’s not as annoying or as ‘costly’ to go elsewhere.


What's this €250K business? That would get you a mansion on the Spanish Costas.


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## Gordon Gekko

Leper said:


> What's this €250K business? That would get you a mansion on the Spanish Costas.


Not being funny, but where? In the middle of nowhere?


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## Leper

Gordon Gekko said:


> Not being funny, but where? In the middle of nowhere?


You get what you pay for in the Costas. But, if you want a 2 bedroom apartment with sea views and centrally located you're talking circa €200K. Some resorts are dearer than others. You can buy an apartment for €40K too, but on a clear day you may see the ground and your neighbours may be a bit rough.


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## Gordon Gekko

Leper said:


> You get what you pay for in the Costas. But, if you want a 2 bedroom apartment with sea views and centrally located you're talking circa €200K. Some resorts are dearer than others. You can buy an apartment for €40K too, but on a clear day you may see the ground and your neighbours may be a bit rough.


So €250k wouldn’t get me a mansion then like you suggested 

We’re starting to plan for a purchase in the next five years so I’ve commenced my research!


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## Marco 1972

Maybe the 'Costa' will have moved to France in next decade or so with climate change....


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## Cervelo

Gordon Gekko said:


> So €250k wouldn’t get me a mansion then like you suggested


Move 30 minutes drive inland from Mojacar and you'd have your mansion with all the bells and whistles 
And if you choose well you might even have enough leftover to by the car your going to need as well.


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## Roro999

Gordon Gekko said:


> Not being funny, but where? In the middle of nowhere?


I guess not being funny that some people might prefer living in the middle of nowhere.


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## Gordon Gekko

Roro999 said:


> I guess not being funny that some people might prefer living in the middle of nowhere.


Good for them. There are always outliers, but they hardly prove whatever point you’re trying to make. Most people prefer to be located centrally, near the beach, near some retail, near some leisure, near some golf, relatively close to the airport, etc.


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## Roro999

Gordon Gekko said:


> Good for them. There are always outliers, but they hardly prove whatever point you’re trying to make. Most people prefer to be located centrally, near the beach, near some retail, near some leisure, near some golf, relatively close to the airport, etc.


I know of several rural holiday homes in Ireland available for 100k to 150k fifteen minutes from a beach, some retail and restaurants, golf but you have me on an airport.  Just making a point that there are people or 'outliers' who do like to get away from it all and purchase a holiday home in rural locations.


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## Gordon Gekko

Roro999 said:


> I know of several rural holiday homes in Ireland available for 100k to 150k fifteen minutes from a beach, some retail and restaurants, golf but you have me on an airport.  Just making a point that there are people or 'outliers' who do like to get away from it all and purchase a holiday home in rural locations.


We’re talking about retirees here though and overseas.

Reliance on a car and remoteness are a problem the older one gets.


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## Roro999

Fair point.


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## Bluefin

Would should consider the impact on climate when purchasing a property abroad.. 

Is it not more sustainable for all if property lets are being used through out the year instead of new properties being built!


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## moneymakeover

Random question
People staying Spain, Portugal during months November to April: does the complex bar, restaurant tend to be closed?


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## Leper

moneymakeover said:


> Random question
> People staying Spain, Portugal during months November to April: does the complex bar, restaurant tend to be closed?


Again, this depends on where you live in Spain/Portugal in winter. But, the main coastal towns have bars, restaurants open all year round.


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## time to plan

Gordon Gekko said:


> So €250k wouldn’t get me a mansion then like you suggested
> 
> We’re starting to plan for a purchase in the next five years so I’ve commenced my research!


https://www.kyero.com/en/property/6206734-country-house-for-sale-salobrena You'd want to see how close it really is to Salobreña (which is a beautiful spot on the coast), and you might be too sniffy to call it a mansion, but that's a lot of house for 250k in a lovely part of the world.


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## mtk

time to plan said:


> https://www.kyero.com/en/property/6206734-country-house-for-sale-salobrena You'd want to see how close it really is to Salobreña (which is a beautiful spot on the coast), and you might be too sniffy to call it a mansion, but that's a lot of house for 250k in a lovely part of the world.



I notice the photos look ancient (see the 2 tvs!)- not  a flat screen in sight! Makes me wonder if its been for sale for ages?


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## horusd

moneymakeover said:


> Random question
> People staying Spain, Portugal during months November to April: does the complex bar, restaurant tend to be closed?


My little town house is about 40 mins from Alicante in a mixed area with a lot of Spanish about. There's some villa's (quite a few) and the area has a beautiful large park/ reservation. It's a 5 min drive from the sea, two mins to several supermarkets, there's a health centre and a bus.   The town is about 5 mins away. As so many people live here, the place more or less is open all year round.  I would highly recommend living in a town where services are available and often in English. I plan, and I suppose most people plan, to have some Spanish (or whatever language) but in practice, it is very handy being able to do things in English. There's even a cinema with English movies, and lots of clubs to socialize. I love my postage stamp house, with a lemon tree, an orange tree and grapes, I even have an English guy who waters the plants and charges a fiver a call-out.


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## Gordon Gekko

time to plan said:


> https://www.kyero.com/en/property/6206734-country-house-for-sale-salobrena You'd want to see how close it really is to Salobreña (which is a beautiful spot on the coast), and you might be too sniffy to call it a mansion, but that's a lot of house for 250k in a lovely part of the world.


Wouldn’t be my cup of tea.

And I don’t think it’d be ‘sniffy’ to be unwilling to classify that as a ‘mansion’.


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## time to plan

Gordon Gekko said:


> Wouldn’t be my cup of tea.
> 
> And I don’t think it’d be ‘sniffy’ to be unwilling to classify that as a ‘mansion’.


Of course you don’t!


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## SlurrySlump

Quite an ugly house in my opinion. The colour that springs to mind is "brown".


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## ClubMan

The cubby holes over the fireplace for keeping your wine warm in the winter is a classy touch all the same...


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## Gordon Gekko

time to plan said:


> Of course you don’t!


You’d want to have just escaped from a hospital for the criminally insane or led a very sheltered life to think that place qualifies as a ‘mansion’!

I don’t even think this does, but in any event it’s not a million miles away from what I’d like or where I’d like it:





__





						A Place in the Sun
					






					www.aplaceinthesun.com


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## mtk

Gordon Gekko said:


> You’d want to have just escaped from a hospital for the criminally insane or led a very sheltered life to think that place qualifies as a ‘mansion’!
> 
> I don’t even think this does, but in any event it’s not a million miles away from what I’d like or where I’d like it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Place in the Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aplaceinthesun.com


You certainly have expensive ( and good! ) taste !
Seems very big 5 bedroom etc to manage after retired tbh


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## Gordon Gekko

mtk said:


> You certainly have expensive ( and good! ) taste !
> Seems very big 5 bedroom etc to manage after retired tbh


Only 4 bedrooms to be fair (5 bathrooms).

But the three levels would be a problem as you get older though.

I love it though, pretty much everything I’d want and I really like the style of it.

With the signed England shirt and the circa 2008 Man United jersey there, and given that it’s quite nice with a gym and sauna, I do wonder whether the owner is just a fan or might have been a little closer to the action back then.


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## time to plan

Gordon Gekko said:


> You’d want to have just escaped from a hospital for the criminally insane or led a very sheltered life to think that place qualifies as a ‘mansion’!
> 
> I don’t even think this does, but in any event it’s not a million miles away from what I’d like or where I’d like it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Place in the Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aplaceinthesun.com


At


Gordon Gekko said:


> You’d want to have just escaped from a hospital for the criminally insane or led a very sheltered life to think that place qualifies as a ‘mansion’!
> 
> I don’t even think this does, but in any event it’s not a million miles away from what I’d like or where I’d like it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Place in the Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aplaceinthesun.com


Please tell me you’re kidding about that McMansion.


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## Gordon Gekko

time to plan said:


> At
> 
> Please tell me you’re kidding about that McMansion.


What’s wrong with it?


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## Cervelo

Thought the budget was €250k or have I missed something here??


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## time to plan

Gordon Gekko said:


> What’s wrong with it?


Nothing at all. Each to their own.


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## Tintagel

My father spent the last 3 years of his life in a nursing home. It cost him €1000 a week plus extras.  He had a tiny room, for a man that liked his food he was always hungry. He always seemed miserable.

He had lived in a four bedroomed house.

What would the cost be, to have a carer live in your own home with you, to take care of your needs?  They would have their own room etc?

Any plus or negative points to this?


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## Allpartied

Tintagel said:


> My father spent the last 3 years of his life in a nursing home. It cost him €1000 a week plus extras.  He had a tiny room, for a man that liked his food he was always hungry. He always seemed miserable.
> 
> He had lived in a four bedroomed house.
> 
> What would the cost be, to have a carer live in your own home with you, to take care of your needs?  They would have their own room etc?
> 
> Any plus or negative points to this?



There are a number of agencies that provide such services.  You can ask them for a quote.  





__





						Home Care | Home Help and Home Nursing in Ireland from myhomecare
					

Home Care and Home Nursing specialist delivering premium Palliative Care, Respite Care, Paediatric Care, Elderly Home Care and End of Life Care in Ireland




					myhomecare.ie
				




It might be worth starting a new thread, because the topic is quite complex. 

There are a number of tax reliefs, state benefits and other issues which come into play when setting up a homecare package.


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## Thirsty

Tintagel said:


> What would the cost be, to have a carer live in your own home with you, to take care of your needs? They would have their own room etc?


If you are unwell enough to need residential care; you most likely are looking at  3 people to provide 24 hour care; plus cover for holidays, sick leave etc.


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## SlugBreath

__





						Facebook
					






					www.facebook.com
				




This is an interesting Facebook Group to join.  Some insights in to moving to an Living in Spain.


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## Cervelo

While on YouTube yesterday this little Ted talk popped up in my feed so naturally I had a look
I found it amusing as it near enough mirrored my own personal experience of retirement
The one thing he doesn't really go into is the time frame from phase one to four and probably because it's unique to each person
but for me it was a good five to six years before I felt I had really established myself in phase four


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## Marco 1972

That might all be irrelevant to future generations as we're all meant to be working till we are 70+,  this might just be for the 'Boomer' generation....


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## noproblem

Euthanasia might be in by then, everyone's problems solved and elderly care solved once and for all.


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## Dododo

All you retirees...any more tales to tell? How is it all going?


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## Harfang

Dododo said:


> All you retirees...any more tales to tell? How is it all going?


No replies. They’ve fallen asleep after pointless. The odd few still up are watching the rose of Tralee. Better chance of a reply tomorrow am I reckon.


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## noproblem

Harfang said:


> No replies. They’ve fallen asleep after pointless. The odd few still up are watching the rose of Tralee. Better chance of a reply tomorrow am I reckon.
> Don't you worry, we'll let you know if we miss something


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## Magilla

Not retired yet, but possibly will be this time next year. We plan on using an upcoming inheritance to fund our two year gap to middling pensions payable at age 60.  Would also plan on getting jobs for say 10-15 hours per week to get us out of bed and supplement our income. All to be clarified yet….
 Bought a small place in Spain earlier this year and we hope to spend several months a year out there. We will lose one of the cars as not needed. Reckon we will live well on €3,000 per month based on current expenses minus stuff we won’t be paying for then. Have to get youngest through final year of college first. 
We are both looking forward to it as working becomes increasingly unpleasant; not the concept of it, more the way it has become an exercise in confirming compliance, box-ticking and endless repetitive reports for management that doesn’t really care (both public servants).


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## Bronco Lane

Harfang said:


> No replies. They’ve fallen asleep after pointless. The odd few still up are watching the rose of Tralee. Better chance of a reply tomorrow am I reckon.


Not really.  I've been up an hour now. Planning my day and watching the early morning trades on the Ftse and doing some research on my next holiday.
Had a nice lunch in Dalkey yesterday and a stroll around Coliemore Harbour.

We will both head out for a coffee this morning, somewhere local.

Probably spend no more than an hour on some household chores and tending my home grown vegetables.

Later today I will probably catch up on the latest episode of South African Survivor.


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## Buddyboy

As a mental exercise when we were out walking yesterday after work.....

Took our combined salary, took off the mortgage, the savings, the pension payments, and AVCs.  The resultant figure is what we are living on, give or take.

This actually equated pretty close to our projected retirement income which was very reassuring. 

And I'm going back to college in October, so I'll be qualified in a different career around the time I hope to retire, so any extra income from working (part time) in that will be jam on top. As well as, like Magilla said, keeping me occupied for a few hours a week.


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## Gordon Gekko

The cost of working is relevant too…travel, lunches, clothes, etc.


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## holidayqueen

I have just retired and will be 60 in a few months. My Husband retired just the end of last year. And so far he is really enjoying it and not a minute bored. 
We both play golf and enjoy walks. 
He likes to cycle also and would do a 25km cycle a few days a week and I purchased an ebike and can now go along if I feel like it. We also have done a few of the greenways. 
We both have separate hobbies but similar interests also. We are members of the same golf club but only play together occasionally but like to play together when we go on weekends away. I’m sure they will be midweek now that I will be available. 
So my plan is to golf two days, join a walking group for days out in the nearby hills. 
My main priority is for us both to be as healthy and as fit as possible. So on that I am going to go to a personal trainer to set me up with a weights program that I can do from home if possible,I want to do this as I see that when people approach 70 and over their posture gets stooped and I want to maintain as much muscle as I can. I need to be able to lift my 10k suitcase up the airplane steps. 
I love to cook and we enjoy traveling also.
I have booked a month is the Canary Islands for January for this year and if that goes well we will do it for longer next year. We also have grandchildren but they live in the UK and we visit and help out from time to time.
We hope that we will be able to afford to bring them on a sun holiday for a week once a year. 
My husband has just qualified for the state pension and I will have a small one when I get to 60 and we have a rental income so our net income will be 45k and this should be fine for us. 
We have no loans and live modestly but do enjoy nice holidays. 
I liked the comment “I want to live rich not to die rich “ 
I must remember that and tell it to my husband as he worries more about money that me. 
I’m really looking forward to having lots of adventures and travel both at home and abroad. 
I am also going to learn how to swim properly I can just about shuffle up the pool. 
We had our family young so now feel this is our time. There are so many options out there you just have to keep trying them out to find what floats your boat. I feel it is important to be flexible and open to new ideas and meeting new people to see where that takes you. I have enjoyed hearing how others have got on and what people can live on. It is great to hear that.


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## LondonIrish

I must admit that I do look forward to reading new posts on this thread. I am a good time away from retirement age yet, but I am of the age that I need to get serious about planning for it.

One recurring theme on this thread is the intention to spend some of the gloomier months of winter abroad which is something I hope to do. I guess this has become even more attractive for retirees given the sharp rise in the cost of energy. Indeed, I wonder if you will now be able to save money by spending 1-2 months in a warmer climate?


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## elcato

LondonIrish said:


> Indeed, I wonder if you will now be able to save money by spending 1-2 months in a warmer climate?


I'm not retired yet but at the start of the year went to Spain for a month WFH to test this. As a singleton, I spent about 1k instead of 1.5k which I normally spend here so I would contend that it is cost neutral depending on your spending habits and your rental needs. I actually ate out more often than I would in Dublin as the cost was not excessive and I was saving on the staples. Some of the main savings I made were coffees at 1.20 a pop and a beer for about 2 - 2.50 a pop but if these are not in your 'diet' it may be more difficult.


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## WaterWater

I have been planning a selection of road trips, well using local transport, in Austria, Portugal, France and Switzerland.

I have more or less chosen each route that I will take and have picked most hotels/apartments. These are for 2023.

Austria will consist of flying to Vienna, then to Graz, cross in to Slovenia and stay in Maribor and Ljubljana, then to Trieste and finally back home from Venice Treviso airport.

Portugal will consist of flying in to Lisbon, then to Tomar, then to Coimbra, Aveiro and out of Porto.

Another Portugal trip will be, fly to Porto, then Guimaraes, then Braga and a few days on the coast, probably Viana do Castelo.

However this year I still have a two location stay in Menorca next month and a few nights in the city of Murcia in October.

Both of us being non smokers and light drinkers and not interested in restaurants with white table cloths can save money for these trips.

I spend a lot of time putting these together, unfortunately a couple of hours everyday........not good to be sitting around for so long though...


----------



## holidayqueen

LondonIrish said:


> I must admit that I do look forward to reading new posts on this thread. I am a good time away from retirement age yet, but I am of the age that I need to get serious about planning for it.
> 
> One recurring theme on this thread is the intention to spend some of the gloomier months of winter abroad which is something I hope to do. I guess this has become even more attractive for retirees given the sharp rise in the cost of energy. Indeed, I wonder if you will now be able to save money by spending 1-2 months in a warmer climate?


I feel we will spend less that our usual monthly spend,as we won’t have any heating or petrol costs and also have the benefit of nice weather and having a swim in the sea daily. Of course we will have the rent and flights but it is not excessive.


----------

