# Is rent allowance being abused?



## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

As a person who has been looking for a one bed property to rent under the max rent allowance of €520 in my area for a single person I am finding it impossible to find such a property (I can not just get a bedroom in a house share because of a medical condition). The welfare officer says that they have lots of people in my area who have found property for €520 now I have been to all the local agents and searched property websites and can not find any. It seems to me that fraud me be going on here as it was suggested to me that the agent/landlord will set up an an agreement to meet the rent allowance criteria and set up another agreement showing the true rental of a property in which you pay the balance of the rental price.​


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## Mommah (25 Feb 2009)

Well call me naive but I can't see that its fraud.
The tenant is only getting what they are due, no more.
The social welfare won't pay a market rate.
So what are the tenant's choice's?

You as an individual can't take on the social welfare system.
It is the system putting you in an untenable position.

I have a sister on rent allowance. She has a serious mental illness and had to become one of my tenants as there was no other option.

I charge her the max rent allowance rate.
The social welfare came to check on the property and were amazed at the quality.
But it is me the landlady, losing out not the social welfare or tenant.
I'm down €200 per month compared to another tenant.
But the local SW office have the benefit of believing that she got a decent accommodation on rent allowance...no freaking way,


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

I would be very surprised that welfare officer would not be aware of rental values in his/her are so are they in fact turning a blind eye to this practice.


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## Cayne (25 Feb 2009)

Can you not back the rent allowance? 

€520 a month seems good on top of the €800 social welfare payment.


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## DeeFox (25 Feb 2009)

System is definitley abused.
Tenants on rent allowance will pay what is known as a "top up" - an additional amount of rent each week which makes up the balance of the market rent and what the SW will give.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

Cayne said:


> Can you not back the rent allowance?
> 
> €520 a month seems good on top of the €800 social welfare payment.


 What do you mean by "Can you back the rent allowance.
I have worked out a budget and out of my €800 sw payment I would be well able to pay €150-€200 a month to top up the €520 but when I suggested this to the welfare officer she said this was not acceptable and if I tried to do so they woud not give me any rent allowance as they see the SW payment of €204 per week as the minimum amount a person can live on. This is something I do not agree with.


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## Cayne (25 Feb 2009)

Sorry didnt realise you were not permitted to back the rent allowance with the SW payment. What part of the country are you in - I know here in Galway you wouldnt get much for €520 a month.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

I am in the Kildare area and the lowest rents for a one bed is approx €750-€800 per month


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## Cayne (25 Feb 2009)

You re obviously not checking daft!

Do a search on daft with max rent 500 for one bedroom or bedsit. Over 20 results.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

But most of these do not accept rent allowance when you contact them.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

Just did a search of daft for rent allowance accepted 1 bed apartmet got one result at €600. I must also state here that I have to be in a town with good transport links as I am unable to drive due to medical reasons


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## truthseeker (25 Feb 2009)

Liamb said:


> I have worked out a budget and out of my €800 sw payment I would be well able to pay €150-€200 a month to top up the €520 but when I suggested this to the welfare officer she said this was not acceptable and if I tried to do so they woud not give me any rent allowance as they see the SW payment of €204 per week as the minimum amount a person can live on. This is something I do not agree with.


 

And what does the welfare officer say when you tell them there is nowhere available to rent within the means of the rent allowance?


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

The welfare officer said we have lots of people who found property for this amount and when I asked can she advise were to find thes properties she stated that is not her job to do so.


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## truthseeker (25 Feb 2009)

Liamb said:


> The welfare officer said we have lots of people who found property for this amount and when I asked can she advise were to find thes properties she stated that is not her job to do so.


 
Can you raise this issue with a local politician?

Is the 520 the absolute max they can give you or can you negotiate for more?

Can your GP help (would your medical condition warrant more assistance from SW?).

Practically speaking, could you do a house share if you found somewhere where the other person wasnt there much, or who worked a night shift and slept daytimes so didnt get in your way?

Sorry I dont have much in the line of proper information, just trying to think outside the box for you.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

Yes €520 is th max and out of that I have to pay a minimum of €23 so I fact what you actual get is €497.00 per month


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## Cayne (25 Feb 2009)

Liamb said:


> Yes €520 is th max and out of that I have to pay a minimum of €23 so I fact what you actual get is €497.00 per month


 
While I understand your personal needs €500 a month for your accomodation from the state is very generous on top of your sw payments. Correct me if im wrong and apologies in advance but it looks to me your nearly upset the state wont allocate more for your accomodation.


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## truthseeker (25 Feb 2009)

Cayne said:


> While I understand your personal needs €500 a month for your accomodation from the state is very generous on top of your sw payments. Correct me if im wrong and apologies in advance but it looks to me your nearly upset the state wont allocate more for your accomodation.


 
I think the OPs issue is not what is generous or not but the fact that he cannot find actually accomodation within that range.


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## Liamb (25 Feb 2009)

Cayne said:


> Correct me if im wrong and apologies in advance but it looks to me your nearly upset the state wont allocate more for your accomodation.


 I dont under stand what you mean 
Well the news for me goes from bad to worse I just received a phone call saying I have been not been offered  the job i intervied for.
Very depressed at this stage I think its the end of the road for me and its time end it all  nothing left to live for at this stage.


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## truthseeker (25 Feb 2009)

Liamb said:


> I dont under stand what you mean
> Well the news for me goes from bad to worse I just received a phone call saying I have been not been offered the job i intervied for.
> Very depressed at this stage I think its the end of the road for me and its time end it all nothing left to live for at this stage.


 
Not at all - this is just a blip, there will be more interviews and in the meantime we just need to think of a practical solution to your housing problem.

On the house share issue - are there any circumstances under which you could share?


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## Cayne (25 Feb 2009)

Ya stick with it buddy. Didnt mean to sound harsh. Good luck.


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## gillarosa (25 Feb 2009)

Hi Liam,
I can imagine, a friend is renting a studio / granny flat in Leixlip for about that price and I was surprised it seemed so reasonable, but as it turns out LL not registered and the resulting concequences.
Maybe, given that there is a reported increase in unrented / available properties you could highlight a few you are interested in and meet your criteria and approach the LL with something along the lines of "I understand you don't accept SW tenents but I'm actively seeking work and interviewing at the moment and anticipate it will be a short term thing before I would become a private tenant" may be worth a shot. Just keep mum about the balancing payment of €30 or whatever it may be, SW just don't want to be told that but I imagine are completly aware it occours.
Best of luck with everything.


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## Mommah (25 Feb 2009)

Liamb said:


> Well the news for me goes from bad to worse I just received a phone call saying I have been not been offered the job i intervied for..


 
Its very hard Liam but remember you are in good company in this department...the very best. Everyone is receiving PFOs these days. There are 100s of good people going for good jobs. Only one will get it. That doesn't mean the other 99 are no good...not at all...only that there is only one job.



Liamb said:


> Very depressed at this stage I think its the end of the road for me and its time end it all nothing left to live for at this stage.


 
Hey Liam, sorry you are feeling so bad. Not hard to understand why really.
But remember there is only UP from here.
Living reasonably well on social welfare is possible...but you need to have your wits about you and be resilient to do it.

If you have no choice but to augment your rent allowance...just do it.
Don't feel guilty....either bend the rules or you'll break and that's not on.
There are alot of sanctamonious people about, who don't understand how hard it is for vunerable people to get what they need. You sound like an honest, intelligent and strong person. You WILL succeed!

I'm thinking you want to live alone for mental health reasons. But maybe you would be better off sharing? If you are currently very depressed maybe you should talk to your family or doctor...you can get out of this...but probably need lots of support.

Ending it all now is like cutting off your foot cos you broke your toe.
The pain is unbearable right now, but it will get better. You know that yourself.

Have you considered doing a course? My sister is in college at the moment and really enjoying it, even if she is the elder lemon.
It offers a good alternative to being unemployed, as it stimulates the mind and keeps you occupied and meeting people (especially if you plan on living alone) 

Sending you a massive cyber hug and reminding you that life does get better. Please talk to your family and/or doctor tomorrow.


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## thedaras (27 Feb 2009)

Cant believe how harsh some posters are!!
The SW KNOW its not possible to rent a house/apt/flat for the amount of rent allowence,if you and I are capable of finding this out then they are,surely?
They know some people have to top the RA up.
It is next to impossible to get landlords to take RA,and when you do,the tennant HAS to say the rental is less than it really is,therfore the landlord gets the balance into the hand ,and wont have to pay tax on it either as its not declared.
It is totaly unrealistic to expect SW tennants to find a place of their own for 520 e when its clear that they are not available,the stress must be huge.Also as the RA must be topped up it means in effect that the tennant in recipt of it is living on very little money.
There is no doubt that this is a huge cost to the state,and the taxpayers however when you are in that position through no fault of your own,what options do you have?? Very few,so do what you need to do,and dont mind anyone who holds the moral high ground,you need to look after yourself,ignore those who have no experience of what you are going through.
I know you feel realy bad,but could you speak with someone?or you can email
jo@samaritans.com  which may bring you back to a better place.
Best of luck


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## gipimann (27 Feb 2009)

Just thought I'd mention that the Community Welfare Service (who deal with persons applying for Rent Supplement) have made very detailed submissions each time the maximum rent limits are reviewed (every 18 months).  The service is very aware of the difficulties faced by tenants in finding suitable accommodation, and have included this in submissions made to Dept of Social & Family Affairs (who set the rent limits).   

However the limits have not been amended since 2007, and, given the publicity of reports announcing % decreases in rent, plus pressure from Dept of Finance re increased expenditure on Rent Supplement, the limits are at best likely to remain at current levels at their next review.  The next review is due before the end of this year as the current limits expire on 31/12/2009.


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