# Has the NCT got tougher recently?



## Brendan Burgess (8 Oct 2020)

My practice in the past has been to get my (15 year old) car serviced  a week or so before the NCT.  

I know that others have recommended getting the NCT first and then getting the faults fixed as part of the service. But I have always passed bar one small issue once. 

But when I was booking my car in for its service, the mechanic said that they have become very difficult since resuming testing and he recommended getting the NCT first and then he would fix whatever they pick up. 

I was surprised at that and wonder if he has just had an unlucky run.   A customer who fails an NCT probably gets annoyed at the mechanic who serviced the car a week earlier. 

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Oct 2020)

It's a pretty standard checklist process with very little room for tester discretion.

I wasn't aware of anything in the criteria having been tightened recently.


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## PolkaDot (8 Oct 2020)

Just anecdotal....but my mother's 16yr old car went for the NCT recently and it failed. My dad brought it for the test and he told me that it was a "young lad" doing the test and he was very thorough. My dad was watching him and knew the car was going to fail because the guy was taking so long going through it.

That's just one example from one test centre though. So I'm not sure how representative it is.


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## Pinoy adventure (8 Oct 2020)

With the high backlog for NCTs id imagine it's becoming less strict on tests.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Oct 2020)

But where does thoroughness make a difference? Lights, belts, horn either work or they don't. The test of the brakes is done by machine. Same for emissions. Tyres either have enough tread depth or they don't.

I guess they have some discretion on the condition of shock absorbers and wheels but that's about it.


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## roker (8 Oct 2020)

the test result are determine by the computerised lane and the upper and lower tolerances are printed on the report. The manual part is things like Nick's in the tyres, bulbs, brake hoses, rot etc


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## Drakon (8 Oct 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Lights, belts, horn either work or they don't.


There’s more to lights than this. Closeness of bulbs (for want of a better term), beam angle, etc.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Oct 2020)

Drakon said:


> There’s more to lights than this. Closeness of bulbs (for want of a better term), beam angle, etc.



Indeed, but the tester doesn't have much discretion here. 

Yes there will be the odd edge case but these won't be many.


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## Thirsty (8 Oct 2020)

Not sure if NCT is any different these days; but your mechanics approach for a 15 year old car makes the most sense.

See what fails and fix it.


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## lucky23 (8 Oct 2020)

I was surprised to fail on a non-functioning reg plate bulb recently - possible they always checked for it, but was a new one for me.


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## Thirsty (8 Oct 2020)

I once failed on the EU flag on my registration plate being partially scratched!  

The reg plate itself was perfect, the EU flag was clear, just partially scratched; had to pay out for a new reg plate.


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## almostthere (8 Oct 2020)

We had a perfectly good windscreen wiper, functioned properly, did the job.  Our car failed on it.  There is a guy across the road from the Deansgrange test centre who could have replaced it in 5 minutes. We asked the tester could we get this done immediately rather than having to come back (during Covid) to have the replacement checked. We were told "No".  We had to go home and make another appointment to have this done.


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## Zebedee (8 Oct 2020)

Did one recently. Didn’t appear to be tougher than usual (last one two years ago).

what did strike me was the number of people there with cars having obvious problems. The guy ahead of me had a vertical crack down the full length of his windscreen. Not sure what he was trying to achieve.


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## Pinoy adventure (8 Oct 2020)

Brendan did you have a long wait to get your NCT test done from time of booking ?


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## cloughy (8 Oct 2020)

on NCT tests I went to book recently, and earliest date as Nov/Dec in any of teh Dublin centtres, so I booked a slot. I then read that if you log in about 8pm, 9pm that some cancellation dates come up, so last night I tried this, a lot of refreshing but suddenly a time became available for this Saturday, so jumped at it at a centre closer to me. 

Its easier when you have an appointment and then you are looking to reschedue it, as less to key in for the booking, as credit card details already on the original booking. 

You may have to refresh a few times as not sure when the cancellation slots become available.


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## FANTANA (8 Oct 2020)

cloughy said:


> on NCT tests I went to book recently, and earliest date as Nov/Dec in any of teh Dublin centtres, so I booked a slot. I then read that if you log in about 8pm, 9pm that some cancellation dates come up, so last night I tried this, a lot of refreshing but suddenly a time became available for this Saturday, so jumped at it at a centre closer to me.
> 
> Its easier when you have an appointment and then you are looking to reschedue it, as less to key in for the booking, as credit card details already on the original booking.
> 
> You may have to refresh a few times as not sure when the cancellation slots become available.



I always log in after 2300 and will get multiple slots. Recently had my NCT and it was not noticeably harder, car is 2004.


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Oct 2020)

Pinoy adventure said:


> Brendan did you have a long wait to get your NCT test done from time of booking ?



I booked it about two weeks ago and was given a date in December. 

So I rang them and they said they would put me on a waiting list. 

Then I got an email a day or two later with 21 October. 

Brendan


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## AlbacoreA (10 Oct 2020)

The problem with the NCT is that they have equipment that many garages don't have. So they find things a garage won't. 
So the only way to know if the car will pass is to do the test. Then fix what it fails on. 

Getting a car serviced is entirely different. A car might pass a NCT but still need a few things doing that might cause problems during the coming year. For example a NCT will pass tyres that many people would suggest are past their best, but are still legal. If the car needs tyres I'll get them replaced regardless if its before or after a NCT. 

I pass a lot more often at some NCT more than others. There are always delays at some NCT centers. Usually the ones that are filthy and poorly maintained in the public areas. One I go to a lot, has has broken PA everytime I've been there. 

The whole broken lift thing was very poorly managed. A shambles in fact.


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## cremeegg (10 Oct 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It's a pretty standard checklist process with very little room for tester discretion.



Ho, Ho , Ho and also Ha, Ha, Ha

I brought in my trusty old Passat some years ago. It failed due to excessive rust in the bonnet. Mechanic replaced bonnet, Passat passed. Then mechanic asked if I wanted to keep new bonnet or put back the old one, he assured me the old one was perfectly safe. So we put back the old bonnet. Two years later the trusty rusty Passat was back for NCT complete with bonnet that had perviously failed, now two years rustier. Pasat passed, no bonnet issue.


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## joer (10 Oct 2020)

That is typical of the Irish system alright. Was it the same person on both occasions , just wondering.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Oct 2020)

cremeegg said:


> . Two years later the trusty rusty Passat was back for NCT complete with bonnet that had perviously failed, now two years rustier.



But isn't such a measure subjective?  It would be hard to get it right every time. 

I don't think it's a failing of the NCT.  

Unless you want them to triple the price and make scientific measurements of rust? 

Brendan


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## twofor1 (10 Oct 2020)

Human error can go for or against you, testers like anyone else make mistakes, my car failed as the rear brakes were sticking.

Mechanic said nothing wrong with the rear brakes, the tester forgot to take the handbrake off, bring it back and tell them you got it fixed, it passed.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (11 Oct 2020)

@cremeegg 

You have helpfully confirmed my point. There are edge cases where tester discretion indeed plays a part

Now try going through 50 times with 1mm tread on your tyres and see how many times you pass.


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## bbound (13 Oct 2020)

Not sure about tougher, but when mine passed I wish I checked the mileage they put on it. It was 5000 miles less than the actual mileage.


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## FANTANA (14 Oct 2020)

I think it isn’t getting tougher it’s just our cars are getting older. It should come as no surprise really that older cars will have a higher fail rate.


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Oct 2020)

FANTANA said:


> it’s just our cars are getting older.



My car is certainly getting older, but is the average age of a car doing the NCT getting higher? 

I would have thought that older cars get scrapped and are replaced by newer ones?


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## AlbacoreA (14 Oct 2020)

Average Irish car is now 9 years old
					

New figures from Cartell show that the Irish car fleet is ageing fast




					www.irishtimes.com
				




More from the NCT itself here....








						Age is the biggest factor in passing NCT; 50% of pre-2009 cars fail test
					

News from the Irish Examiner's team of reporters




					www.irishexaminer.com


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## Leo (15 Oct 2020)

AlbacoreA said:


> Average Irish car is now 9 years old
> 
> 
> New figures from Cartell show that the Irish car fleet is ageing fast
> ...



Looks like 8.55 years last year. Registrations in the run up to 2016 were still a way off pre-bust levels.


 2006​2007​2008​2009​2010​2011​2012​2013​2014​2015​2016​2017​2018​2019​New Private Cars173273​180754​146470​54432​84907​86932​76256​71348​92361​121110​141931​127045​121157​113305​


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Oct 2020)

So I had my NCT today.  I usually get the car serviced first, but this time, the mechanic told me to get the test done, and he would fix the list.

My last NCT was in May 2019. The car is 15 years old but I have only done 3,500 km since then. 

To my surprise and delight, I passed.  

The new expiry date is September 2021. Which is probably 12 months + 4 months Covid Extension after the last test was due? 

Brendan


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## Jazz01 (21 Oct 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> this time, the mechanic told me to get the test done, and he would fix the list.



I would say something like "_buy your mechanic a pint_..." for giving you that advice - but now you have you get food with a pint, sit outside etc... too much could be implied by you doing such  

And congrats on passing the NCT


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## Pinoy adventure (21 Oct 2020)

I got a call at 11am this morning from the garage where I bought my car last month.there is a spot tonight at 8.10pm for a NCT test.
Oh the joys


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## Pinoy adventure (21 Oct 2020)

Just home from NCT center.
The car is no booked in until December 15.
I was told by the garage where I bought it from the test is today.

It's a trade booking.could the NCT center say I never showed up and still get paid for the no show ?

I don't see why a main dealer would get a cancelled spot only not too get the dates correct.

A waste of time & fuel going over there.one un happy camper


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Oct 2020)

That is frustrating. 

While I was in Deansgrange today, the customer at the next hatch greeted the NCT employee by name.  "Hi George , any chance of an NCT today?" to which George replied " A full or a retest?" . The customer said "A full"  and George said "Let me see what I can do". 

So clearly dealers rock up on spec. and take their chances. Not sure if others could do that.

Brendan


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## joer (21 Oct 2020)

I would not have thought that they would do that  ( take one on spec) . But if they had a "quiet day" perhaps they should be able ....


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## mtk (22 Oct 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So I had my NCT today.  I usually get the car serviced first, but this time, the mechanic told me to get the test done, and he would fix the list.
> 
> My last NCT was in May 2019. The car is 15 years old but I have only done 3,500 km since then.
> 
> ...



maybe a happy AAM member


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Oct 2020)

mtk said:


> maybe a happy AAM member



He spoke a bit about trackers, but I assumed it was the wheels he was referring to.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Oct 2020)

joer said:


> I would not have thought that they would do that ( take one on spec) .



I understand that the trade often does that.  They take in a second hand car to sell. They do it up and can't really wait three months for an NCT. 

It's fair enough really. 

Brendan


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## Leo (22 Oct 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So clearly dealers rock up on spec. and take their chances.



Where my wife is from the local mechanic does that. They drop off the car, mechanic takes care of the service and NCT, there was never an issue getting the test done on the day pre-COVID, but I'm not sure what the situation is now.


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## joer (22 Oct 2020)

That is a very good idea


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## Drakon (22 Oct 2020)

I failed an NCT a good few years ago due to human error. 
It was in Deansgrange and I’d a late booking. The tester explained that the red indication light doesn’t come on when the fog lamp knob is pulled out. He said it failed but the retest would be visual only. 
As I drove home I was thinking about it and I started turning on-and-off the foglamps. It worked fine. Then I realised it was a mistake by the tester. The first notch turns on just the front fog lamps (no red indication lamp) whereas the second/full notch turns on the rear fog lamps too (and red indicat lamp).
I did a u-turn in Stillorgan and made it back to the test centre just before they closed, and found the tester. Demonstrated and explained how the knob worked.

He passed me without hesitation.


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## EmmDee (22 Oct 2020)

Leo said:


> Where my wife is from the local mechanic does that. They drop off the car, mechanic takes care of the service and NCT, there was never an issue getting the test done on the day pre-COVID, but I'm not sure what the situation is now.



My place take the car for an NCT if it's due within the next 3 months or so - don't even need to warn them or anything. They just do it for me. Saves me a load of hassle


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## joer (22 Oct 2020)

In Carlow they will not do the NCT without an appointment, no way.


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## roker (31 Oct 2020)

almostthere said:


> We had a perfectly good windscreen wiper, functioned properly, did the job.  Our car failed on it.  There is a guy across the road from the Deansgrange test centre who could have replaced it in 5 minutes. We asked the tester could we get this done immediately rather than having to come back (during Covid) to have the replacement checked. We were told "No".  We had to go home and make another appointment to have this done.


not great if you live some distance away, some have a hours run each way, that's 4 hours driving if there is a re test


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## roker (31 Oct 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> My practice in the past has been to get my (15 year old) car serviced  a week or so before the NCT.
> 
> I know that others have recommended getting the NCT first and then getting the faults fixed as part of the service. But I have always passed bar one small issue once.
> 
> ...


That's what I do, one week before. This time it was cancelled due to Covid, the next appointment that I made with great difficulty, the power went off during a storm while my car was on the test lane. My third appointment I was way out of my 4 months + date it passed .


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## Leper (6 Nov 2020)

I look after my wife's car, our childrens' cars, my sisters-in-law cars and my own car. Back in the day of plugs and points I used to do my own car servicing including adjusting the timing. But, appearance is everything. I do a "visual" test on all the aforementioned cars together with checking the oil, tyre pressure, lights and wiper water. Then I hoover the living daylights out of the car and follow up with a power wash (with emphasis on wheels/tyres) and then shine up the inside with beautiful smelling stuff. Connect the seat belts in the back and drivers seat - just do what you are advised. The following morning I bring the car smelling like Miss World's perfume to the Test Centre. Todate none of "my" cars failed the test.

I have seen cars arriving at the Test Centre with more mud than a tank on the Somme. After mechanical/electronic workings, it's all about appearance; I reckon that's what Fergal Quinn (best sales person ever) would have said.


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## Baby boomer (18 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> I have seen cars arriving at the Test Centre with more mud than a tank on the Somme. After mechanical/electronic workings, it's all about appearance; I reckon that's what Fergal Quinn (best sales person ever) would have said.


Would a bit of muck not cover up a bit of rust?


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## Pinoy adventure (19 Dec 2020)

Baby boomer said:


> Would a bit of muck not cover up a bit of rust?



Duct tape


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## ATC110 (19 Dec 2020)

If anyone is relying on the NCT as a indication of roadworthiness and safe to use, please think again.

I had a car which passed the test despite the rear axle being almost completely rotten (a tyre fitter detected it some days later and I immediately replaced it).

I made a formal complaint to the NCT complete with photographs and kept the original axle as evidence. They did not want to know and said the test was a 'snapshot in time'. I pointed out that the rear axle was made from angle iron and it would take several years to corrode after the NCT.

There were several letters of correspondence but they would not admit liability. My next step would have been legal proceedings, which I wasn't prepared to take at the time.

Since then I view an NCT test as legal compliance, similar to motor tax.


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## PaddyBloggit (19 Dec 2020)

ATC110 said:


> My next step would have been legal proceedings, which I wasn't prepared to take at the time.



I don't get it. The bottom line responsibilty for your car is you. 

The NCT/DOE is only a spot check and the relevant bodies do point that out.

I think they were right not to accept liabilty. The responsibility/liabilty for your car is yours.

And you were responsible... you fixed the issue.


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## Sue Ellen (19 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> I look after my wife's car, our childrens' cars, my sisters-in-law cars and my own car. Back in the day of plugs and points I used to do my own car servicing including adjusting the timing. But, appearance is everything. I do a "visual" test on all the aforementioned cars together with checking the oil, tyre pressure, lights and wiper water. Then I hoover the living daylights out of the car and follow up with a power wash (with emphasis on wheels/tyres) and then shine up the inside with beautiful smelling stuff. Connect the seat belts in the back and drivers seat - just do what you are advised. The following morning I bring the car smelling like Miss World's perfume to the Test Centre. Todate none of "my" cars failed the test.
> 
> I have seen cars arriving at the Test Centre with more mud than a tank on the Somme. After mechanical/electronic workings, it's all about appearance; I reckon that's what Fergal Quinn (best sales person ever) would have said.



I would do the same insofar as having the car gleaming as I would be of the opinion that just like me I'm sure the testers prefer to work on a clean vehicle rather than a very dirty one both on undercarriage and interior.

It never ceased to amaze me as to the number of people I have heard being sent away because they did not sort the child's seat or something simple like that.  A colleague was sent home for the child's seat and admitted that she had not even read the letter


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## Codogly (20 Dec 2020)

Any chance the NCT might be nudged gently towards failing older cars in an effort to progress people towards buying new car ( which is more likely to be Electric ? )


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## Leper (20 Dec 2020)

No car ever passed the NCT test parked outside the testing area in wait but many cars failed the test there. Appearance is nearly everything, ask any salesperson.


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## Buddyboy (21 Dec 2020)

Had the NCT for my 09 i10 last week.  Sailed through. It's probably the fastest it's been through the center.  
He did comment that the back tyres had less than 3mm thread as an advisory. 

So, in my case, it definitely hasn't gotten tougher.  And I had brought the car for a service in October, and had replaced the front tyres. There were no obvious faults with it.


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## Leo (21 Dec 2020)

ATC110 said:


> If anyone is relying on the NCT as a indication of roadworthiness and safe to use, please think again.



Indeed anyone doing so would be naïve, the NCT has never claimed to be an all encompassing verification of roadworthiness. they spell it out quite clearly: 



> It does not replace or purport to replace your responsibility to ensure your car is roadworthy at all times or the regular maintenance that a mechanic needs to carry out on your car.



The NCTS are well protected by the terms you have to agree to prior to the test, so it would be tough to have much success without an iron clad case. In your case, who is defining 'almost completely rotten', you would need an engineer to test it against design specifications. That would be expensive, and as you suffered no loss, what would you hope to gain from taking such a case?


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## odyssey06 (21 Dec 2020)

Codogly said:


> Any chance the NCT might be nudged gently towards failing older cars in an effort to progress people towards buying new car ( which is more likely to be Electric ? )



Even without any extra nudge I think it the NCT certainly having this effect in terms of removing older cars, and many older cars fail on emissions.


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## ATC110 (21 Dec 2020)

Leo said:


> Indeed anyone doing so would be naïve, the NCT has never claimed to be an all encompassing verification of roadworthiness. they spell it out quite clearly:
> 
> 
> 
> The NCTS are well protected by the terms you have to agree to prior to the test, so it would be tough to have much success without an iron clad case. In your case, who is defining 'almost completely rotten', you would need an engineer to test it against design specifications. That would be expensive, and as you suffered no loss, what would you hope to gain from taking such a case?



The rear wheel was sitting at an acute angle due to the axle being severely compromised due to corrosion. 

FYI, the most basic part of the NCT is to test the structural soundness of the underbody.

The tyre fitter was also a mechanic and could not believe it had gone undetected.


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## ATC110 (21 Dec 2020)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I don't get it. The bottom line responsibilty for your car is you.
> 
> The NCT/DOE is only a spot check and the relevant bodies do point that out.
> 
> ...



As you are aware, the NCT is a roadworthiness test and they failed to detect a serious structural defect.

Obviously it would be the owner's responsibility to rectify the defect as is the case with any fail item. 

The point is the NCT failed to fulfil their duty on the most basic level.


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## PaddyBloggit (21 Dec 2020)

ATC110 said:


> The rear wheel was sitting at an acute angle due to the axle being severely compromised due to corrosion.



I still don't get how your own mechanic didn't spot this when you got your car serviced (over the last few years).

And I still don't get how you can be agrieved with the NCT for not spotting what is ultimately your responsibility.

(Our posts crossed.)



ATC110 said:


> they failed to detect a serious structural defect.



So did your mechanic. I'd be more agrieved with my garage/mechanic for failing to spot the defect during its annual service/check.


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## SparkRite (21 Dec 2020)

PaddyBloggit said:


> And I still don't get how you can be agrieved with the NCT for not spotting what is ultimately your responsibility.


Maybe because they are being paid to 'spot' such things. The OP is their customer.



PaddyBloggit said:


> So did your mechanic. I'd be more agrieved with my garage/mechanic for failing to spot the defect during its annual service/check.



Absolutely he should have, and maybe the OP will start another thread to discuss this, but this thread is about the NCT.

It's gas though, by far most people complain when their car fails and not when Applus pass a car.


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## SparkRite (21 Dec 2020)

ATC110 said:


> The point is the NCT failed to fulfil their duty on the most basic level.


Based on the information given here, I would have to concur.


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## Leo (22 Dec 2020)

ATC110 said:


> The rear wheel was sitting at an acute angle due to the axle being severely compromised due to corrosion.
> 
> FYI, the most basic part of the NCT is to test the structural soundness of the underbody.



Based on your description alone, I think most people would agree the car should likely have failed the NCT. But you need to understand the NCT is not intended to be a fully comprehensive test of roadworthiness. Many aspects of the test rely on a simple visual inspection carried out by a tester, issues like this are more likely to sneak past as they clear a backlog caused by the restrictions earlier in the year.

The terms & conditions you agree to in order to submit your car for test mean you acknowledge this limitation and absolve NCTS of any liability for issues that may not be picked up in the test.

You have suffered no loss and the NCTS have no duty to you to certify that your car is free from defects. I don't see grounds for a case against them. However, if the rust was as significant as you say, you may have a case against your mechanic, as it would appear they have failed to service and maintain your car in a safe condition.


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