# PC sum refund



## shulgin1000 (7 Sep 2005)

I will be closing shortly and have one query in relation to a PC sum of €800 for the provision of sanitary ware and tiling.
During the course of construction, the builder informed me that they wouldnt be tiling as they didnt want the hassle etc. and I would have to get this done myself. They have provided the sanitary ware and given that the contract had lumped tiling/sanitary ware into the one PC sum of €800 euro, how do I go about getting some money back before closing?

Could I expect to get the 800 back or if not, how can the refund amount be determined? I havnt had the tiling done (I may do it myself) and wont until the house is signed over.
Can the refund amount be taken off the overall sales price without this messing up the paperwork, etc?


----------



## johnnyg (9 Sep 2005)

what does it specify on your contract. It should outline what area's are to be tiled and this should be honoured by the builder if the contracts are signed. Have you contacted your solicitor on the matter. If its mentioned in the contract then it would have to be performed otherwise the builder would be liable for the costs if you get it done yourself. What was the original PC sum in the contracts for sanitary ware? Was tiling a PC sum or was it included. Has the builder changed the terms of the contract. I think you should contact the solicitor asap to sort out and prevent a delay in getting the house handed over.


----------



## CCOVICH (9 Sep 2005)

Could someone please define 'PC' in this context?


----------



## JohnG (9 Sep 2005)

A PC sum in an initial budget to be spent on these items.  Generally the items will cost more than the budget and you would expect to be charged the difference.

The builder will tell you what the sanitary items (plus fitting) cost (and I would not be surprised if it is higher than the 800).  You might not get any money back and you may even owe more.


----------



## johnnyg (9 Sep 2005)

The PC sum is the value the builder puts on the value of certain items ie sanitary ware, fireplace, kitchen. wardrobes. If you don't take what they offer or want to upgrade this be the amt you get back off them.It only comes into question when you want to upgrade or make changes otherwise its an arbrtitary number for the builder. The PC sumps are put in the contract. If there was never a pc sum for tiling then the builder can't lump it in with the sanitary ware PC sum. He will have to tile the areas agreed first day.


----------



## usrbin (9 Sep 2005)

It amuses and frustrates me greatly that builders love to throw PC sums around so freely and vaguely, but I have yet to meet one who can say what it stands for.

I believe it comes from Prime Cost.


----------



## Carpenter (9 Sep 2005)

PC sum does indeed stand for "prime cost" sum, that is: the cost of buying the item, it's a term that's used with abondon in the trade, labour is an extra then on top of the pc.


----------



## shulgin1000 (9 Sep 2005)

johnnyg said:
			
		

> what does it specify on your contract. It should outline what area's are to be tiled and this should be honoured by the builder if the contracts are signed. Have you contacted your solicitor on the matter. If its mentioned in the contract then it would have to be performed otherwise the builder would be liable for the costs if you get it done yourself. What was the original PC sum in the contracts for sanitary ware? Was tiling a PC sum or was it included. Has the builder changed the terms of the contract. I think you should contact the solicitor asap to sort out and prevent a delay in getting the house handed over.


The spec throws sanitary ware and tiling all in the one pc sum of €800.  This is what confuses me - and I want to be clear on it before talking to any of the parties involved.  They have provided and installed the sanitary ware - they just havnt tiled.


> PC sum does indeed stand for "prime cost" sum, that is: the cost of buying the item, it's a term that's used with abondon in the trade, labour is an extra then on top of the pc.


This goes against my understanding of it. Are you saying that they can come back to me and charge me for labour for the installation of the fireplace (which had its own pc sum) and the kitchen?



> The builder will tell you what the sanitary items (plus fitting) cost (and I would not be surprised if it is higher than the 800). You might not get any money back and you may even owe more.


wtf?  I agreed to pay the price requested based on the contract offered.  This is a fixed thing cost wise as far as im concerned.  I have not asked for any extras at all - how could they be in a position to ask for more?

Can i make them do the tiling?


----------



## johnnyg (12 Sep 2005)

if its in the spec, then you are entitled to get the tiling done...and it does not cost you extra as this is included in the price of the house from day one (if its a fixed price contract for the house, they can't just decide to increase the price of certain things afterwards...this is illegal)....i think that the tiler/builder is trying to pull a fast one on you. if i were you i would contact your solicitor asap (you are already paying him for his services and this is part of the service, so it won't cost extra) tell him of what has happened and ask him to send a letter to the builders solicitors and request that the tiling to be completed as was agreeded in the contracts.


----------



## shulgin1000 (13 Sep 2005)

*Caught by the short and curlies?*

I spoke to the site foreman again and he says that he *thinks* they allow €600 for tiling - and that its up to me to arrange seperately.  I mentioned to him that its included as per the contract and he just repeated the above.

There are three bathrooms in this 4 bed semi;
Downstairs - has WC & washbasin
Upstairs - WC/basin/bath
Ensuite - shower/basin/WC

The contract states the following:
*"All bathrooms include sanitary ware and come completed with tiling to <builder> specification or a pc sum of €800."*

Now, it appears that I *could* make the builder do the tiling - but am I leaving myself open given the vague nature of the contract ie. 'tiling to builder specification'?  What could be legally defined as the minimum they could do on this tiling job?

He reckons that everyone else sorted out their tiling independently.  Then again, thats irrelevant to me really..

Any ideas as to how to handle this best? How much tiling would €600 cover (not as much as the minimum they would have to do i would imagine?) ?


----------

