# PRTB Determination Orders



## tosullivan (23 Jan 2008)

I had an adjudictaion hearing last year with the PRTB against a former tenant, which we won and the tenant was ordered to pay us all the costs that we put in for.

However since then, even after a determination order was sent to the tenant, they have still refused to pay.  The determination order requested payment within 7 days of the issue of the order, which has now lapsed.

The PRTB has just written and has basically outlined the current position.

2 choices


They will enforce the determination order through the courts for us, but due to an increasing volume of cases, they may not be in a position to prosecute.
We can institute circuit court proceedings to seek compliance with the Determination order.
The way I see it is the PRTB may not have the time to follow this up, but was just wondering if we were to take this on ourselves, what would be the procedure and who would be liable for costs and how much does anyone think it might come to?


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## MOB (23 Jan 2008)

The costs for pursuing the case in the Circuit Court would probably run to between €2k and €6k.  Sorry I can't be more precise - I am not familiar with the procedures as I have not had to deal with such a case (though I am a little surprised that the law is that you have to go the the Circuit Court for enforcement).


PRTB seems to me to be yet another example of the state grossly underestimating the resources required to deal with a section of the legal system.  The fact is that in any wealthy democracy, people need a properly functioning legal system.  This takes a lot of time and resources, and is quite expensive.  The employment appeals tribunal was set up to take lawyers out of employment disputes and offer a lower cost, simpler way to resolve matters.  Most cases before the EAT nowadays involve lawyers and - because they specialise in the operation of the EAT - they can and do charge accordingly.   The PIAB was set up as a 'no lawyer necessary' system and they have now done virtually a full U-turn.  PRTB was set up to 'speed up and simplify'.

I am not suggesting that we should just leave the lawyers in charge;  But there is a common theme here - state decides to try to cut out proper legal representation in a more 'streamlined' procedure, new procedure starts in a blaze of PR, new procedure rapidly shows itself to be not an iota better than what it replaced.

I have not had to deal with a PRTB case, but if I did have a landlord-tenant dispute, I would certainly prefer that the person dealing with it was well versed in the law and was able to correctly apply the law to the facts.  We have these people already - they are called judges.


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## tosullivan (23 Jan 2008)

in one paragraph they are telling me that they are rigurous in enforcing through the courts its determination orders and then in the next paragraph telling me that if it is not cost effective they may not bother trying to prosecute.

What about small claims court?


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## rsob (12 Feb 2008)

To anyone looking to the PRTB for help in a dispute you need to be aware of the following:

In response to you enquiry please note the following:

You asked:
Can I ask what is the normal time taken for disputes to be resolved
where they can be?
*Due to the volume of applications received each day, unfortunately, we are currently working on an eight month back-log in processing cases.*

Can you suggest legal representation that I may need to obtain should
you be unable to bring this situation to a favorable close?
*The PRTB are not an advisory body so we cannot suggest or advise legal representation. You might not need legal representation, most applicants do not retain legal representation.*

Can you advise me on the legal costs involved in such disputes in your
experience? 


*See above.*

PRTB


One final note: it is very unfortunate that the Small Claims court http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Going_To_Court_Guide/ no longer deals with tenant/landlord disputes. 

And that the minster of the environment http://www.environ.ie/en/ContactUs/ setup this Board with no legal authority whatsoever.

Am I wrong to feel that the chief concern of the Board was not meet when within a time of such extreme backlogs that a very lengthy and dare I say expensive Fitting out was done on their new offices on D'Olier street even down to double lined walls for sound insulation.

So it makes me wonder when I received a snotty acknowledgment letter, that I was wasting valuable resources, by inquiring if they have any means of   [FONT=&quot]Prioritising their cases, whether they should not have put their budget into recruitment primarily as they perform in essence an administrative function.[/FONT]

As a matter of good practice they should show on their home page http://www.prtb.ie/ their current processing backlog and it should be Clearly stated that they have no legal authority.  At least then tenants and Landlords are going to know that it is up to themselves to sort their own issues out ( in situations where they simply cannot wait for durations of up to a year. ) 



Perhaps then their Backlogs will go away.... 


I would rather pay 10 times the application fee for a prompt determination that had a legal backing, but maybe that's just me...

What do you think? Should they have some legal power in relation to making parties in a dispute adhere to the determination orders?


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## plant43 (12 Feb 2008)

tosullivan said:


> What about small claims court?



PRTB was designed to take Tenant/Landlord disputes out of the SCC.


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