# Joint mortgage with ex-boyfriend, house in negative equity



## Sara (4 Feb 2012)

I took out a joint mortgage with partner in 2008. In 2009 we split up. Since then I have lived in house and paid mortgage on my own. I acknowledge my resposibility in that contract was signed etc. The house is probably 150, 000 in negative equity. I have a permanent public service job. I cannot take over mortgage in my own name (despite reaching monthly payment for past 3 years), cannot sell as in negative equity, but I don't want to be tied to ex forever...Bank unwilling to offer any way out. I am willing to keep paying mortgage but obviously dont want ex's name on deeds if Im only one paying for house. Any advice please?


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## Bronte (9 Feb 2012)

There is no solution to this as the bank will not agree to change the mortgage to just your name.  When you are out of negative equity you can force your ex off the deeds by a court order.  I suggest you over pay the mortgage to get to that stage as quickly as possible.  Also you should have a clear history of all the payments you have or ever will pay, as the court will decide your share of the house based on this.


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## allie12 (9 Feb 2012)

I would get a solicitor to draw up a legal agreement between parties, outlining and confirming that partner is not and has not being contributing to mortgage for X amount of time and both parties agree that the property belongs to you outright. Get him to agree that he has no claim either now or in the future on the property.

I would then approach the bank, with said agreement and see if they will budge on changing the deeds- but still insist that they lodgea copy of the agreement to your file.

My fear would be waiting for it to come out of negative equity that the ex may then  decide he wants half!!


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## tvman (9 Feb 2012)

Bronte said:


> ...  When you are out of negative equity you can force your ex off the deeds by a court order.



are you sure about that?


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## 44brendan (9 Feb 2012)

Sounds very dodgy. Yes, you could in theory take a court case against the joint owner on the basis that he wasn't contributing to the loan repayments. However, there is no guarantee that the result would be an order to remove him from the title to the property.
Best option if joint owner refuses to engage, is to consider moving totally from this property and engage with the Bank on this basis. Otherwise the whole process can end up very messy!


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## purple17 (1 Mar 2012)

Hi im in the exact same situation with a 4 year old daughter in the loop and 150k neg equity. Bank wont let me take it on solely as salary isnt sufficient.
Ive been paying mortgage and everything for house for last 3 years as we're on a tracker so repayments not that bad.
He refuses to contribute or sign an agreement waivering his interest in the property even though i would be relieving him of his share of €150k debt if we sold. 
He wont even answer calls or emails and ive highlighted our options to him. If I rent it out the rent wont cover the mortgage (short €300pm).

Should I move out or only pay 50% of mortgage to make him and the bank pay attention but it'll be my name blacklisted?  I really need to sort asap as I need to put money into house for repairs and wont do that if his name still on mortgage and he wont pay his share. It'll be him crawling out of woodwork when house goes back to positive equity.


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## 44brendan (1 Mar 2012)

It's no consolation that you are one of a number of people in this position. Look back over many previous threads re people seeking advice.
Currently there is no ideal solution to those in your position. 
The house is in negative equity and you are only a joint owner. If the other joint owner fails to engage with you or the Bank I would seriously consider moving out of the property. The difficulties in doing that is that you are still liable for the full mortgage and the property cannot be sold without the co-operation of the joint owners, or the Bank taking Court proceedings. However you are currently in a reasonably strong position to negotiate with the Bank. I.e. If you voluntary give up posession of the property to the Bank it will help in achieving a sale. You are probably stretching yourself to pay the full mortgage currently, so I'd certainly look at reducing the amount you are paying. Use the MARP process to do this. I would advise also writing to the Bank and advising them exactly of your situation. Let them know that you are prepared to co-operate in relinquishing posession of the property provided that they agree to an acceptable solution on your ultimate liability.
Hopefully this will work. Unfortunately, many of those working in Bank ASU units are unable to get a decision on an issue like this and they tend to issue stupid responses to sensible suggestions because of that. It would help if you know a solicitor who could phrase the letter appropriately.


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## Bronte (2 Mar 2012)

tvman said:


> are you sure about that?


 
Sorry I should have added to that, only if the OP can get a mortgage for the full amount.


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## Bronte (2 Mar 2012)

purple17 said:


> Should I move out or only pay 50% of mortgage to make him and the bank pay attention but it'll be my name blacklisted?.


 
Why would you do that.  The bank will come after you.  Does your ex have any assets or a job.   You are both liable for the full amount.  Keep a record of all mortgage payments you've paid, look out your purchase documentation and put all financial contributions to the initial purchase that you paid into a file and keep that file in a safe place with a copy somewhere else.  In addition do your repairs and keep all the receipts in that file.  If in the future you go too court over equity in the house, or to get him off the deeds it will help you to prove the financial contribution you alone have made to the house.  Also keep the proof of what he has contributed.  It may or may not be many years but that file will be very important.


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## Sara (5 Mar 2012)

Thank you for the responses. It is a very difficult situation. The banks rationale that they have two people to go after just doesn't cut it. The ex is completely unwilling to lose a cent. I have a permanent civil service job and am paying mortgage in full every month, surely in the current climate that competes with bank being able to go after two people.  The bank says I can't afford to take on this debt so maybe I should just agree with them, stop payments and then see if they are willing to do something?
I would love to hear if there is anybody who found a way of sorting this kind of situation.


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## burmo (5 Mar 2012)

Is it possible for you to sue your ex for non-performance on the loan?


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## partnership (5 Mar 2012)

I would look to sell the house and do a deal on the negative equity if they wont allow you to take on the full mortgage.  Play hardball with them as they will be the losers.  They have nothing to lose by letting you take it over.


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## Bronte (6 Mar 2012)

Sara said:


> The bank says I can't afford to take on this debt so maybe I should just agree with them, stop payments and then see if they are willing to do something?
> .


 
How is this going to solve anything.  The bank will take you to court and force you to make the payments and that will cost you.  You could be talking thousands if they go to court.  Plus back interest on the mortgage, fees and no doubt penalties.  Because you have a good permanent job you are more of a mark then your partner.  

Does your partner have a job or assets?


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## ajapale (6 Mar 2012)

Teresa Mays seperate question split here:
Joint mortgages -we think. (temp title - split from existing thread)


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## purple17 (7 Mar 2012)

Sorry sara to jump into your thread but my partner does have a job but no assets. That's why I suggested only paying 50% of the mortgage. It's very hard to continue to pay the full mortgage and put money into a house when another person owns the property also and gets away with not contributing so I understand what you're going through Sara.


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## seahawk (13 Mar 2012)

Hi Guys, am new on this fourm but am in a very similar situation and have been searching the internet for a solution. Facts of the situation are as follows, my partner left in 2007 and we have two mortages, main home and investment property. Last year my ex stopped paying towards both mortgages. Both properties in negative equity, I am luckly that I have a relatively good job and am just about able to make the payments each month but mostly I end up over drawn and playing catch up just to put petrol in the car.
My solicotior says I can not sue for non payment as were are married and going through the divorce process. I can't just stop paying the mortgages as this will destroy my credit rating and the chances of ever getting another loan. Bank won't sign over main home to me as ex will not sign seperation agreement or deed of waiver.

In summary there is no way out of this, I can't walk away either because I love my home and would like to keep and if I did walk the bank will want the balance of their negative equity. 

So if there is a solution to this I would be delighted to know, but so far am holding out for my day in court and hoping the judge will allow me to keep the house and prehaps make the ex take on the other loan. It's a mess...ideas welcome


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## seahawk (13 Mar 2012)

I have a quick question for anyone that may know, I found this on the Key Post thread on court case proceedure

By the way, it should also be noted that *inability to pay is not a defence*. And a notice of intention to defend should not be lodged on this basis or for an opportunity to explain to the court how and why you have fallen on hard times. The Judge is only interested in whether the money is properly owing by the defendant, if it is then Judgment and costs will be have to be granted against him/her.

If then I stopped paying both my Mortgages and asked the banks to take us to court for non payament and explained to the judge the situation, could they then enforce an order of your partner to pay the arrears owed???


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## Bronte (19 Mar 2012)

seahawk said:


> If then I stopped paying both my Mortgages and asked the banks to take us to court for non payament and explained to the judge the situation, could they then enforce an order of your partner to pay the arrears owed???


 
If you stop paying the bank will take both of you to court.  But if your ex cannot afford the mortgage the court is not going to order him to pay anything.  You need to talk to your bank.  Don't do anything drastic like not paying your mortgage, what has your solicitor advised you?

Is the rent from the investment property enough to pay that mortgage?


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## seahawk (19 Mar 2012)

Hi Bronte, many thanks for the sound advise, I think I will approach the bank again, but as they said before they don't care who pays as long as the payments are made each month. My solicitor says I cannot sue as you cannot sue your spouse, in the mean time I have to wait for a court date for a divorce hearing and hope the judge will take the non payment of the mortgage into consideration, but this date could be over a year away.

This seems to be a common situation lately for many people whose relationships have ended and one partner just walks away, from everything including their financial responabilities. I have been reading case law on BAILI looking for judgment in a similar situation but not finding anything.

The other property is a site there in no rental income from it. 

I don't want to stop paying the mortgages as it will destroy my credit rating, so it seems like a catch 22 situation.


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## Bronte (20 Mar 2012)

This is an interesting situation, if you go into court for a divorce, I presume the judge can decide who takes ownership of a property, but the court cannot oblige a bank to let your ex off the mortgage and allow you the full mortgage I wouldn't have though.  I wonder have there been any court cases on this. 

Being logical you are in the house, presumably it's in negative equity, but you are able to pay the mortgage and you want the house.  But the bank won't agree.  

Is there children.  What does your ex want?  Has he a good job and any other assets.  

What is the amount of negative equity on the site, would the bank allow you both to sell it and pay back the negative equity over time.  You need to be proactive at looking for solutions, with the bank and your ex.   What advice has your solicitor given you?


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## seahawk (20 Mar 2012)

Bronte said:


> This is an interesting situation, if you go into court for a divorce, I presume the judge can decide who takes ownership of a property, but the court cannot oblige a bank to let your ex off the mortgage and allow you the full mortgage I wouldn't have though.  I wonder have there been any court cases on this



Hi Bronte, this is really interesting in realtion to the law, I have been researching some case law going back to 1919 and 1970 not really anything relevant in recent history as the law is pretty clear, in that when we applied for the mortgages there was no intention to create legal relations. Therefor a husband can not sue a wife or vice versa as no legal contract exists. I do think it would be worth revisiting but solicitors are not really interested in moving outside their law comfort zone. 

In my case there is no kids we were dual income no kids (DINKS) the house is 75 k down and the site 35 k down but am willing to take the house and the bank are happy to allow this but my ex wants me to take all the negative equity and will not sign an agreement unless I take the site too, I think this is unfair, both properties are on the market but there is no interest, even if there was I could never handle all that negative equity on my own. 


I would be interested to hear if anyone else is in the same type of situation and what type do advise they received from their solicitor .


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2012)

Seahawk sometimes in life things are not fair, or do not seem to be fair.  If the price to have a peaceful life is to take over all the debt, and if you can afford it, and your ex is willing for you to do so, and if he cannot hope to repay it then maybe you have to bite the bullet.  But don't have regrets.  It is far better to move on.


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## Sara (19 Jul 2012)

and the situation gets worse...the ex has threatened to move in to my home after splitting up 4 years ago. Since then I have paid mortgage fully every month. He says he will move in but wont pay anything to mortgage. I have contacted solicitor and unfortunately it seems he is entitled to move in. Im at a complete loss now. When we split up he had every option to choose from, he chose to move out and sign form saying he had no interest in the house. Unfortunately bank wont take his name off mortgage. I am meeting with them again tomorrow. Now he is desperate and unreasonable. So what happens? I have paid full mortgage for 4 years. I have to let him into my home? He lived in it 4 years ago for about 2 months. I cant afford court costs. Help, please.


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## Mrs Vimes (19 Jul 2012)

Sara said:


> I have contacted solicitor and unfortunately it seems he is entitled to move in.......he chose to move out and sign form saying he had no interest in the house.




Has your solicitor seen this form? Was it drawn up by a solicitor? Was it witnessed? Did he also get legal advice at the time?

I would assume if he has relinquished his interest in the house then he can't move back in?


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## partnership (28 Jul 2012)

My advice is to apply for bankruptcy whent he new laws come in and give back the house.  There is no way that I would allow someone to live in my house in this situation, take notes of anything he is saying that may be used for a barring order if need be.  If there is not other option then you should consider doing a divide to the house even if it is with temporary partitions so you do not have to have any interaction, including separate metres and heating.  Do not pay the mortgage, lodge part of the mortgage into a separate account in your name so it can be used in the future if needbe.  

Anyone thinking of buying in the future with a partner do not - wait until you can buy in your own name!


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## Alexmartin (26 Aug 2012)

Sara
I heard about a case last week from solicitor friend of mine which you might be interested in.

Someone was in a similar situation to yourself.
They had some savings and a family member who agreed to support them for a while in the UK.

They withdrew the savings in cash gave it to the family member in secret.
So they had nothing left.  Then moved to the UK to wait out the waiting period in order to take advantage of the bankruptcy laws there.

While there the family member sent them money every week to keep them going until it all went through.

As far as I know now, the ex owns the house outright.  No debt is owed by the person who went to the UK.  And they are starting their life again.


Now thats just recounted from memory of a conversation, but you should look into this.  Talk to someone in the know who can advise you if it suits your situation and verify if it can be done.  I know you would have to give up a public service job, but it may be worth it to get out of debt.


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## Importer (26 Aug 2012)

Unfortunately, lots of similar type situations of this at the moment.

I am very sympathetic to OPs situation however there is one element that is often overlooked.

OPs ex is not paying the mortgage and neither is he receiving any rent from the OP for occupying his half of the house. Surely if the "non-occupying" ex is expected to pay half the mortgage then he should also be entitled to receive some rent from "the occupier"


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## Aw7666 (10 Oct 2013)

All - what was resolution for this? I have same issue too and banks are not being that helpful...


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Jul 2014)

I have started a separate thread on this topic. 

Side agreement with ex, where the bank refuses to allow one to take over mortgage?

Have any of you progressed this matter?


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## batman1 (18 Jan 2016)

Has there been any update on this ????


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## CMOS11 (18 Jan 2016)

Sara said:


> I took out a joint mortgage with partner in 2008. In 2009 we split up. Since then I have lived in house and paid mortgage on my own. I acknowledge my resposibility in that contract was signed etc. The house is probably 150, 000 in negative equity. I have a permanent public service job. I cannot take over mortgage in my own name (despite reaching monthly payment for past 3 years), cannot sell as in negative equity, but I don't want to be tied to ex forever...Bank unwilling to offer any way out. I am willing to keep paying mortgage but obviously dont want ex's name on deeds if Im only one paying for house. Any advice please?





Sara said:


> I took out a joint mortgage with partner in 2008. In 2009 we split up. Since then I have lived in house and paid mortgage on my own. I acknowledge my resposibility in that contract was signed etc. The house is probably 150, 000 in negative equity. I have a permanent public service job. I cannot take over mortgage in my own name (despite reaching monthly payment for past 3 years), cannot sell as in negative equity, but I don't want to be tied to ex forever...Bank unwilling to offer any way out. I am willing to keep paying mortgage but obviously dont want ex's name on deeds if Im only one paying for house. Any advice please?



If you are still on the site. Have you reached a resolution. I'm in a similar position and feel like  I've been banging my head against a wall for last 2year's


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