# Reminder: FSO Before Finance Committee - starting now



## SaySomething (27 Feb 2017)

Scheduled for 10am in Room 2. You can watch proceedings via this link on the day: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchlive/committeeroom2/

On the agenda is their Strategic Plan for 2017 which you can find here: http://opac.oireachtas.ie/AWData/Library3/FSOB_2017StrategicPlan_WebPDF_13012017__160117_171152.pdf

And the tracker mortgage investigation. It will be interesting to see what Ger Deering (FSO) has to say about their role in the whole debacle I think.


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## notabene (27 Feb 2017)

wrote to several members this evening with questions on the methods used in the Ombudsman's office, particularly as regards compensation & new evidence coming to light post adjudication


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## SaySomething (28 Feb 2017)

Just did similar to @notabene with particular reference to the tracker mortgage issue.


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## nonie (28 Feb 2017)

Who and how exactly did ye write to the Members, or more to the point who.is worth writing to and at what address?


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Feb 2017)

You will find a list of members here: 
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/fpert-committee/members/

If one of them is your TD, write to them in particular.

But you should also write to your local TD even if they are not on the committee and ask them to attend the Committee meeting and ask a question.  The members are given priority, but any TD or Senator can attend.

Brendan


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## nonie (1 Mar 2017)

Thanks Brendan, I emailed 4 individuals including the chair.


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## MorgVar (2 Mar 2017)

Any Fine Gael Members attending or have they ever  In private session now Room 2


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

OK, it's started. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

On tracker mortgages 

Role is to seek to redress the imbalance of power and resources Inequality of arms between consumer and bank. 

WE would welcome an extension to the 6 year limit.  Particularly helpful to mortgage holders. 

Rectification could be more significant than compensation. 

Where I find the conduct to be unfair, I won't be found wanting. 

We first got complaints at the end of 2008. 
The 2009 Annual Report featured a case study. 
In 2009, 2010 and 2011 we upheld cases in favour of borrowers. 
ptsb appealed 4 findings to the High Court. 
In 2012 - two were rejected. Two were referred back to the FSO.

Shortly after I was appointed in 2015, I started a comprehensive analysis of over 500 decisions.  I presented the analysis to the Central Bank in November 2015 

We work in close cooperation with the Central Bank to help them. 

I became aware in early 2016 that at least one bank proposed to exclude cases which had been through the FSO from the review. I wrote to all banks telling them to include them. 

We are currently dealing with approximately 400 complaints but they are on hold pending the outcome of the CB review. 

There are a number of potential complaint

a person was not returned to a tracker mortgage at all
at the correct time 

at the wrong rate 

they might not be happy with the compensation 

They might not be happy with the process 
Good presentation.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

Sean Sherlock : Why are all the cases on hold

(It looks as if only two others, both Senators are present.) 

Deering: There is only one bite at the cherry. If we decide now, and the CB review comes up with something else, it will be too late. Putting them on hold preserves the customers' rights in full. 

A few have asked to go ahead with the complaint anyway. We don't think that it's in their interest. 

116 fully upheld and 58 (?) partly upheld over the years on trackers. 

Early stages - compensation was not paid.  the trackers were returned quickly. It would be different today if someone got their tracker back which was lost in 2010.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

Senator Gerry Horkan FF

Deputy Ombudsman: We thought that people would like face to face mediation, but we found that most customers preferred telephone mediation as it gave them time to think.

One case was in exchange of documentation for 5 years. WE got them face to face for a day, and resolved it.

We do mediation in our own offices, but we could do them locally.

We resolved 8 cases in 2014 by mediation . 99.99% of financial institutions refused to participate.

In 2015, we resolved 2270.

We tell lenders not to get hung up on jurisdiction. These are your customers. Try to resolve the complaint.

Between 80% and 90% of complainants were happy with the mediation process.

International research shows that mediation favours the smaller body, as a trained mediator rebalances the power.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

Apologies from Pearse Doherty. Maurice Quinlivan asking on his behalf. 

Ombudsman:  We have had significant complaints from people who never had trackers claiming that they should have been offered trackers. 


We have seen where the banks know that they were wrong and rather than rectify it they have wondered how they can pay as little as possible. (Refers to notabene's case ?)


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

The standard of questioning is shocking

Gerry Horkan:  Do you publish case studies?

Gerry Horkan: Do you hear complaints about insurance companies?

QuinlivanTo be fair, he is reading out questions written by someone else.)  There have been complaints about the Independent Appeals Process on trackers. Do you have any powers to intervene when they use them as delaying tactics.

(Where did that smiley come from is it an n followed by a :  n

Chairman McGuinness: How does your role differ from that of the Central Bank?

McGuinness: Where a car insurance premium quote is too high and they don't have a finance plan, what can you do about that?  
Ombudsman: Nothing. 
McGuinness: Can you not force them to take periodic payments?


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

Chairman - John McGuinness(FF) -  asking questions

I don't see any other members still in the room! Other than Gerry Horkan, also from FF.

Ombudsman
We found in favour of customer for some trackers
The bank  then settled other complaints of a similar nature.
The question arises: Why did they not proactively sort out cases,where no complaint was made?

McGuinness keeps asking about Ulster Bank despite the FSO telling him he can't discuss individual cases.

Ombudsman: If we see a pattern, we can take it up with the banks.

McGuinness: If an SME is refused a loan,they can appeal to a state agency. 
If that state agency refuses, could they appeal that to you? 

Ombudsman: No.  We can't second guess commercial decisions.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

I think that the camera is trying to hide the fact that there are no other members present.

They should be obliged to point the camera at the members' chairs when they are empty.

The Chairman is now asking really stupid questions - probably in an effort to keep it going in the hope that someone else will show up.

McGuinness: I want to go back to a previous issue - vulture funds. (He is really struggling) 

Deputy Chairman Horkan is bank: Does he want to ask any questions. "No, but I would like to thank you for your engagement". 

McGuinness: ARe you happy with your powers? 

Ombudsman: We have the strongest powers of any Ombudsman.

Brendan


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## Wardy7 (2 Mar 2017)

Thanks Brendan.

Not looking very productive so?


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## Tedtalk (2 Mar 2017)

Possibly a reflection of the Ombudsmans role in this. The only players in the examination are the Central Bank.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2017)

That was really bad. 

Apparently Pearse Doherty was there, but had to leave.  

Michael McGrath wasn't there, but there were two FF members actively asking questions. 

No FG and no independents. 

Really shocking. 

Brendan


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## Tedtalk (2 Mar 2017)

It's all about the banks and the central bank so I fully understand why the Ombudsman got this type of audience.


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