# Being made redundant - what can I expect?



## Deano (5 Oct 2017)

Hi. I've been working for a US multinational software company for 6 years and have just found out that my position is being made redundant. My team is spread throughout Europe and I am the only one of the team being let go - it's part of a restructuring program.

I have a formal meeting with the HR manager on Monday. The thing is, what can I expect as part of a redundancy package? Do I have any room to fight for anything? The company is very profitable.

Thanks.


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## Deano (5 Oct 2017)

Another bit of info: I'm on an OTE as my salary - 80% basic and 20% commission.

Is it safe to assume that any redundancy payment is based on the basic only?


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## odyssey06 (5 Oct 2017)

Are there any open positions in the company you think you would be qualified for? 
You could ask for re-deployment to that position but then be aware the Ts & Cs and pay etc might then be related to the new position not the old.

If that's not an option, make sure to get agreement from HR and for your line manager to be made aware that you can take time off to attend interviews etc during your notice period.


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## Deano (5 Oct 2017)

odyssey06 said:


> Are there any open positions in the company you think you would be qualified for?
> You could ask for re-deployment to that position but then be aware the Ts & Cs and pay etc might then be related to the new position not the old.
> 
> If that's not an option, make sure to get agreement from HR and for your line manager to be made aware that you can take time off to attend interviews etc during your notice period.



They sent me a list of open positions (8 total) but unfortunately none are applicable to my skillet. I assume this is a usual first step as part of this process?

The HR manager said that if I do not wish to apply for any packages then we will discuss a redundancy package, which is where I feel I am at now.


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## JoeRoberts (5 Oct 2017)

6 years is a nice time to move on. The days of staying long term in jobs is past and will work against you later in life.
So negotiate the best package you can. I'd start with 6 weeks pay per year of service as many US multinationals pay in that region. Some in pharma sector even more. Do a bit of research in advance and of course push for full salary basis using your actual commission history.


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## Deano (5 Oct 2017)

JoeRoberts said:


> 6 years is a nice time to move on. The days of staying long term in jobs is past and will work against you later in life.
> So negotiate the best package you can. I'd start with 6 weeks pay per year of service as many US multinationals pay in that region. Some in pharma sector even more. Do a bit of research in advance and of course push for full salary basis using your actual commission history.


Well, I'm in my 40's so I am into the 2nd half of my working life! I would prefer to stay with the company though, the length of time isn't really an issue to me.

Thanks for the info. What I don't understand is how I can negotiate here. I mean, they only have to offer me two weeks statutory minimum, right? I just don't get where I can ask for more - on what grounds? What would\could they do if I simply refuse their offer??

I agree with you though, I was going in looking for -
6 weeks per year (on full salary)
Payment for untaken holidays this year
Payment for outstanding commission bonus from Q1 (anything over target is saved until year end and paid in January).

Is any of this unreasonable or are there any other suggestions?


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## dereko1969 (5 Oct 2017)

Sorry to hear this. Have any former colleagues been made redundant? Is there any benchmark/precedent for redundancy in the company? I'd start with that and then see your options. Also, seek 8 weeks and then accept less rather than seeking 6 as a starting point as you won't get all you ask for, start big.
There could be reputational damage to them if they only give statutory, would someone leave a company that usually pays 6/8 weeks redundancy to work for a company that only gives 2? I know Dell gave decent redundancy in previous rounds that type of information could impact someone's decision to join a company or not.


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## dereko1969 (5 Oct 2017)

As to your negotiating position, is it clear why your position has been made redundant rather than your colleagues in other countries? You could make things difficult for them on that score as it could be regarded as not following proper procedures.


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## TheBigShort (5 Oct 2017)

Deano said:


> Well, I'm in my 40's so I am into the 2nd half of my working life! I would prefer to stay with the company though, the length of time isn't really an issue to me.
> 
> Thanks for the info. What I don't understand is how I can negotiate here. I mean, they only have to offer me two weeks statutory minimum, right? I just don't get where I can ask for more - on what grounds? What would\could they do if I simply refuse their offer??
> 
> ...



Have they made anyone else redundant before? If they have, and the offer was known publicly, you may have a case to request to be treated on same terms.
If the redundancy packages of the past were negotiated privately, you still may have the option of requesting the company's policy for determining redundancy packages. I'm assuming it's a large company, so it's likely their HR dept has a set policy for offering minimum terms in redundancy packages rather than just picking figures out of their head. You should request this from their HR. Tell them it will assist you in coming to an informed decision.
Unpaid holidays are your legal entitlement as far as I know.


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## JoeRoberts (5 Oct 2017)

This document showing settlements may be useful although a bit out of date. Look for examples of other major companies and be prepared to show them.
You don't want to go to the WRC but if you did you would get more than statutory for a profitable MN company doing a restructure. They know that very well.


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## Deano (6 Oct 2017)

JoeRoberts said:


> This document showing settlements may be useful although a bit out of date. Look for examples of other major companies and be prepared to show them.
> You don't want to go to the WRC but if you did you would get more than statutory for a profitable MN company doing a restructure. They know that very well.



Thanks for the heads-up on that, much appreciated.

I supposed that I should engage a solicitor as well or is that unnecessary? I assume that it will come down to the cost...


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## JoeRoberts (6 Oct 2017)

Deano said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on that, much appreciated.
> 
> I supposed that I should engage a solicitor as well or is that unnecessary? I assume that it will come down to the cost...


No need for a solicitor.
See what they say. Ask what their package is.


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## MrEarl (9 Oct 2017)

Deano said:


> Well, I'm in my 40's so I am into the 2nd half of my working life! I would prefer to stay with the company though, the length of time isn't really an issue to me.
> 
> Thanks for the info. What I don't understand is how I can negotiate here. I mean, they only have to offer me two weeks statutory minimum, right? I just don't get where I can ask for more - on what grounds? What would\could they do if I simply refuse their offer??
> 
> ...



Hello,

Sorry to hear that you are facing this.  Having been through a redundancy process myself in the past, I know that it can be a little unsettling.  However, the secret is to make a plan for what you are going to do after you finish working for this employer - then you have something to focus on (even if the first couple of weeks is a holiday, before you commence a job search or return to education etc.).

In the first instance, I would say as little as possible when you meet with the person from HR, listen to what they are proposing and take a few notes (although they will most likely give you a summary in writing), then ask for time to consider what they have told you and that you will revert to them with questions.  I would also say that you may decide to bring someone with you to meet with them in a few days time and that if you do, you will give them prior notification of who that person will be.

Given you are in your 40's, it may take a little while to get another job (despite the fact that you work in a good sector for jobs) so I would actually start off by telling your employer that you expect 7 weeks per year of service, in recognition of the fact that it may take you longer than say a 25-year old, to get a new job.

With regards to other things you might like to ask for:

A popular "add on" is a retraining grant, to either retrain you for alternative employment or to enable you to update or improve your skills, making you more employable etc.  The best that I have seen or heard of to date, was a payment of €12k (that was based on 4 x €3k, subject to certain minimum service having been obtained but in reality, was paid to anyone with more than 4 years employment as I recall).  What made this payment particularly attractive, was the fact that evidence of expenditure did not have to be provided, so in reality, it was a €12k payment on top of the redundancy payment.

It is also usual for your employer to either arrange for you to meet with a specialist who will give you a little career advice and help you prepare a CV, or make a contribution towards the cost of you obtaining same.  In fact, something in the back of my mind is telling me that an employer is obliged to do this, but please don't hold me to this as I am not 100% certain.

If the company has a corporate pension scheme, also ask for a meeting with an advisor from the pension provider, so they can run through the options with you regarding what can be done with your pension if you are leaving employment etc.

In my case, we were also able to get our former employer to pay for an individual 30 minute consultation with a tax advisor, who took us through our personal redundancy payments, touching on any tax liabilities that individuals may have and also gave us a very brief run through the social welfare benefits we were entitled to.

Obviously all of the above should occur during company time before you cease employment and in addition, as previously mentioned, you should be facilitated as much as possible with going to any interviews, meeting a couple of recruiters etc.

Strategically, see if you can have any influence on when they make you redundant.  Key considerations are such things as the anniversary of your date of employment, because if you are close to your 7th anniversary, then by hanging on a little longer, you can get an increased redundancy payment.  Taxation may also be a consideration, as it may suit you to wait until the new tax year, depending on your personal circumstances.

Regardless of the fact that you may be told that there is no negotiation, there usually is when it's a profitable company and it is not making all of it's staff redundant, or closing the operation in it's entirity, where you were based.

You are unlikely to need a solicitor, but if you feel that you are being treated badly, then don't be afraid to engage one.  If you go this route, make sure you get a highly regarded specialist employment solicitor - don't just go for the local firm, or someone who is offering a service at low cost.

Best of luck with your negotiations and remember, life begins at 40 so don't let this redundancy get you down too much


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## newtothis (9 Oct 2017)

Excellent advice from MrEarl.

No harm in reading up on the legal position; the following is an excellent source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/

If you feel you're being treated unfairly, pay particular attention to procedures they're supposed to follow. Keep in mind though, it is always best to leave anywhere on good terms, so don't go there unless you have to.

I would start looking for a new job as soon as possible. You're in a very good sector for employment, though it has something of a (deserved) reputation for age discrimination.

Best of luck!


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## amtc (9 Oct 2017)

I used a really good employment solicitor in a similar situation...got 9 weeks, and company paid his fees


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