# Not totally broke yet but can I negotiate off some of the Mortgage if selling?



## Rockson (10 Nov 2010)

Hi

I have a mortgage and I can pay it for the moment but I  selling the house.

I have a lot of savings and I have them with the same bank so they know I am capable of paying them the full amount if I sell the house. 

What leverage if any do you have against a bank to negotiate down the amount you have to pay them back.

I have to pay to break a fixed mortgage  as well and they are going to charge me through the nose even to do that.

I know if you were flat out broke you might stand a better chance but what could I say to them to get a few quid off ?


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## NorfBank (10 Nov 2010)

No chance, you are capable of paying your mortgage and you have a lot of savings.


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## Rockson (10 Nov 2010)

I was wondering has anybody even tried ?


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## truthseeker (10 Nov 2010)

Rockson said:


> I was wondering has anybody even tried ?


 
Why would someone try? If you have the means to pay it back then what reason is there to not pay it back?


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## Rockson (10 Nov 2010)

I just look at it as trying to renegotiate terms with a business. I for one have no problem trying to get the best deal from a bank if possible. In any case I am not looking for a moral discussion.


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## truthseeker (10 Nov 2010)

Rockson said:


> .....what could I say to them to get a few quid off ?


 


Rockson said:


> In any case I am not looking for a moral discussion.


 
Youre looking for advice on what you could 'say' to get a 'few quid off' for no better reason than you feel like it - and you think its not a moral question?

Good luck with that - the bank wont give an inch if they know you have the means.


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## NorfBank (10 Nov 2010)

What if the bank said, "eh sorry Rockson, we're a bit skint, you know that 100k you owe us, any chance of giving us 105k - you might say no but sure if you don't ask you don't get.."


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## PiedPiper (10 Nov 2010)

I think you would be mad not to make them an offer.  Its up to them to take it or not dont tell them you are selling the house


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## DB74 (10 Nov 2010)

NorfBank said:


> What if the bank said, "eh sorry Rockson, we're a bit skint, you know that 100k you owe us, any chance of giving us 105k - you might say no but sure if you don't ask you don't get.."


 
I don't think the bank asks - they just raise the interest rate.


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## PiedPiper (10 Nov 2010)

I think the high moral ground here is a laugh a minute, love it stupid?  naive?? they would roast us on a spit.


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## RIAD_BSC (10 Nov 2010)

DB74 said:


> I don't think the bank asks - they just raise the interest rate.


 
+1

It is not a moral issue. It's strictly business. Still, I don't fancy the OP's chances. But there is nothing wrong with making the bank an offer. What has the OP to lose?


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## truthseeker (10 Nov 2010)

RIAD_BSC said:


> It is not a moral issue.


 
Of course its moral - he borrowed the money in good faith - why would he try to pay back less when he has the means to pay it back in full?

It just comes across to me as someone chancing their arm because in the current climate banks may well be coming to arrangements with people who CANT pay it back - so the OP wants to jump on that bandwagon by asking what he could 'say' for them to give him consideration of a discount too.

Im not saying he shouldnt ask - but morally I think if he has the money there he should pay it back.


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## NorfBank (10 Nov 2010)

We own most of the banks, if people who can pay start making  arrangements to pay back less than the outstanding amount then where  does that leave us *as the owners*?

Of course if the bank isn't Irish then I'm behind you 100%


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## Rockson (10 Nov 2010)

the "moral issues" can be argued which every way you want, I am more than comfortable with the idea. The original question was has anybody got an idea how to try and drive a hard deal with a bank ?


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## truthseeker (10 Nov 2010)

Rockson said:


> the "moral issues" can be argued which every way you want, I am more than comfortable with the idea. The original question was has anybody got an idea how to try and drive a hard deal with a bank ?


 
Move some money elsewhere - leave the amount there that you want to settle for. Contact them and tell them that you are leaving the country and want to settle for that amount - otherwise you'll be taking your cash and defaulting.


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## RIAD_BSC (11 Nov 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Of course its moral - he borrowed the money in good faith - why would he try to pay back less when he has the means to pay it back in full?
> 
> It just comes across to me as someone chancing their arm because in the current climate banks may well be coming to arrangements with people who CANT pay it back - so the OP wants to jump on that bandwagon by asking what he could 'say' for them to give him consideration of a discount too.
> 
> Im not saying he shouldnt ask - but morally I think if he has the money there he should pay it back.


 
If the bank agrees to accept a haircut in order to get full repayment now, then it is perfectly acceptable and morally fine. If it is ok with the bank, then why not with you? The bank saves money by getting repaid early (because it no longer has to fund the outstanding balance on the money markets). Therefore, it is perfectly logical that the OP should look for a share of that upside. Why not? Nobody (apart from yourself) is suggesting he should default, only that he should try to negotiate with the bank. It is called capitalising on an opportunity (as oppossed to arm chancing), and the OP would be mad not to try.


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## RIAD_BSC (11 Nov 2010)

Rockson said:


> the "moral issues" can be argued which every way you want, I am more than comfortable with the idea. The original question was has anybody got an idea how to try and drive a hard deal with a bank ?


 
Move your savings to another bank asap. Then write a letter to the bank's head office and make whatever offer you feel is appropriate, pointing out the benefits of a deal to the bank (it helps shrink their balance sheet, removal of risk, they no longer have to fund the mortgage externally etc etc..). They'll either dismiss it out of hand (fairly likely) or they might be willing to listen. If they listen, then it is game on.


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## RIAD_BSC (11 Nov 2010)

NorfBank said:


> We own most of the banks, if people who can pay start making arrangements to pay back less than the outstanding amount then where does that leave us *as the owners*?
> 
> Of course if the bank isn't Irish then I'm behind you 100%


 
Settling the mortgage early might actually save both the OP and the bank some money. If the mortgage is paid off, the bank no longer has to fund it on the expensive international money markets. So the bank saves money. Why shouldn't the OP ask to share some of that saving in the form of a modest haircut on the mortgage?

Don't assume that the bank will lose money if it settles for less than what it is owed.


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## JoeB (11 Nov 2010)

Your proposal may have some merit but overall I don't think it'll work. But it might... for the reasons given.. if the bank is paying more to borrow money than you pay them then it makes sense for them to save money by accomadating you.


It's similar to going back to a bookie when you have a multi bet, and the first few steps have gone in your favour.. in this case the bookie may be looking at a large payout if your last race wins.. far more than the odds he'd pay on the single race by itself.. in this case the bookie may buy back the bet rather than be exposed to a potential large loss. But many bookies won't do this either. The bank will not want a precedent of allowing people off money owed...


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## NorfBank (11 Nov 2010)

RIAD_BSC said:


> Don't assume that the bank will lose money if it settles for less than what it is owed.



Don't assume the bank is losing money at the moment. If it is not then settling for less than the outstanding sum will automatically crytallise a loss on the mortgage.

If the bank was losing money on the OPs mortgage I would guess that they would be the one opening the negotiations to close the mortgage at a discount. 
The fact that they are not doing so would lead to the presumption that they will not agree to the OPs suggestion.


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## JoeB (11 Nov 2010)

How would the banks know which of their customers have the facility to repay early?.. most people wouldn't.

If the money was in a different bank then they wouldn't know.

But if the money is with the same bank then they do know... but is this legal? What I mean is, the banks have set themselves up as seperate companies.. like BOI mortgages, and BOI current accounts... so how is it legal for these seperate legal entities to exchange info? Is there not Data Protection laws? I know the companies all come under umbrella groups but it's still questionable in my view.

Has the Data Protection person ever examined this idea of legally different companies under an umbrella exchanging info?.. even if this is mentioned in contracts.. perhaps the clauses are illegal.


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## RIAD_BSC (11 Nov 2010)

NorfBank said:


> Don't assume the bank is losing money at the moment. If it is not then settling for less than the outstanding sum will automatically crytallise a loss on the mortgage.
> 
> If the bank was losing money on the OPs mortgage I would guess that they would be the one opening the negotiations to close the mortgage at a discount.
> The fact that they are not doing so would lead to the presumption that they will not agree to the OPs suggestion.


 

Unless the OP is paying a near double-digit annual mortgage rate, then of course the bank is losing money on it. That's not speculation, it is fact. Three-month interbank money costs Irish banks well over 5%, probably nearer 6% at this stage. That's before the bank pays for its cost base. No Irish bank is making money on mortgages right now. That's old news.


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## NorfBank (11 Nov 2010)

Assuming it's an Irish bank.

So many assumptions in thread to be fair, OP good luck with your negotations, let us know how you get on.


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## Ailesbury (13 Nov 2010)

You have no chance. If banks started this, there would be a free for all. You willl have to pay the debt down in fulll.


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