# PRTB - Late registration question



## munchy (12 Jun 2013)

I have to back register with PRTB after neglecting to do so for the past few years. I have had tenants come and go over shortish periods - 6 / 9 months here and there over the past couple of years, and have a friend who handles it all for me. Certainly I don't think he has a record of the previous tenants PPS numbers etc. They were intended to be long term tenancies but because of various problems with the apartment, as well as a few of them leaving Ireland etc, those tenancies were shorter. But since I hadn't registered for PRTB previously I will be registering for a number of now void tenancies and I don't know if this is possible or even necessary. The current tenants have only been there since January.

The reason I am concerned because I understand that the registration process is quite complicated and I dont want to mess it up.


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## Bronte (14 Jun 2013)

One thing for sure, you can only back date tenant's who are still in the property, you cannot register people who have left.  

All you can do now is register the current tenants, and I presume you realise that you cannot write of the bank interest prior to this year and are incurring a hefty tax bill on rent plus no doubt penalties and interest.  I note on the other thread the NPPR is not paid either and presumably the same goes for household charge and property tax.  It's time you actually sorted out the mess I think, based on if I remember your situation correctly, you're in the UK etc.


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## T McGibney (14 Jun 2013)

Bronte said:


> One thing for sure, you can only back date tenant's who are still in the property, you cannot register people who have left.



Have you a source for this assertion? My own understanding, and that of several of my clients following their own respective registration experiences, is the precise opposite.


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## Bronte (14 Jun 2013)

Tommy I know for sure that it was the case.  When it was the paper system.  Maybe if you 'pretend' the tenants are still there n you can do it now on the electronic system, I don't know.

Probably you need to ask one of your clients how they did it   How did they get the PPS numbers for tenants that left say a year or two ago?


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## T McGibney (14 Jun 2013)

Bronte said:


> Tommy I know for sure that it was the case.  When it was the paper system.  Maybe if you 'pretend' the tenants are still there n you can do it now on the electronic system, I don't know.
> 
> Probably you need to ask one of your clients how they did it   How did they get the PPS numbers for tenants that left say a year or two ago?



Its very straightforward. Several clients have done so recently. All online (paper registration is for mugs  ). You merely commence the tenancy & later cease it before commencing the next one. You can register without tenant PPS numbers. I know of cases where tenants refused to give their landlords their PPS numbers, for privacy & data security reasons. The online system recognises this difficulty.


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## oldnick (14 Jun 2013)

I find it difficult to believe that it's O.K. to register tenants who have gone and only pay the minimal late fee.

I wonder if,when done electronically, PRTB are aware that this registering of tenants who are now non-tenants can be done -even years later ?

Registering tenants who are no longer tenants would not only seem to negate the purpose of PRTB, but looks like an abuse of the law which states that tenancies must be registered - with a late fee if not done in the month of the tenancy commencing.

There's "late" and there's "late" -and there's blooming silly. 
Is it the case that we can neglect to pay TV licences, motor-tax and any other fee required by law - and then decide years later to pay it with no penalty,other than a small charge ? 

Is PRTB an exception to the usual rules concerning paying legally required fees?


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## oldnick (14 Jun 2013)

Well, to answer my own question...

YES it is the case that LLs can register long after the tenants have come and gone ,died whatever.

I just spoke to Enforcement section of PRTB who  made it clear that they are tied by the legislation ,or rather the lack of legislation which means "late " can mean one day or a decade. It was clear they also thought this was crazy  but they were hamstrung.

Yet they claim to have prosecutued 25 non-registering LLs so far this year . When I asked how come  they are prosecuted when all they had to do was pay the late fee. "Well, the fact is they didn't pay the late fee, and once we issue proceedings it's too late".

So, that's it then. Absolutely crazy but Tommy is right.


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## T McGibney (14 Jun 2013)

A few points
1. The PRTB is, in the scheme of things, a minor and rather straightforward bureaucratic obligation, nothing more. Failing to register is not good practice but isn't a major crime either.

2. The PRTB's own penalties for late registration are a doubling of the registration fees. Whether or not this constitutes "minimal" depends on one's own position and priorities but, again in the scheme of things, a doubling of the fee doesn't seem either to be unduly lenient or unduly harsh.

3. The major de-facto penalty for non-registration, loss of ability to claim interest as a deduction against rental income, can be ridiculously harsh and disproportionate in individual cases, but not in others.

A highly-indebted property owner who fails to pay a €70/€90 fee faces the loss of a tax deduction that can cost them tens of thousands of euro over a four-year tenancy period. Compare this to their better-off neighbour who has no mortgage, and no interest to claim (but no mortgage repayments either), and doesn't register either, but faces no additional cost.

This is hardly just.


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## munchy (14 Jun 2013)

Thanks everyone for the information. I have really had my head in the sand due to the stress etc and now that Im looking at this, my stress levels are escalating! 

For the back-registration of older tenancies - how do I do that logistically online? Do I have to do them one at a time, and how do I cancel one before progressing to the next one? Can this be done fairly quickly online, or do I have to wait to get written confirmation from PRTB ? (which I believe is slow and back-logged?) 

Or can I simply register them all at the same time, and simply specify the "end date of the lease" on each form?


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