# bupa v's vhi options



## seosamh (26 Nov 2003)

I was checking into my vhi renewal. There seems to be a big price differential between bupa essential plus and vhi options. My understanding is that they are similar products. Is it okay to change to Bupa?


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## Skinflint (26 Nov 2003)

*.*

You'd need to read the terms & conditions of each policy carefully in order to figure out which gives you the cover that you need but, in general, the different grades of policy are almost comparable. If you are in a region in which one insurer provides cover for the local hospital and the other doesn't then this might be a key issue for you. There are subtle differences in cover other than that. I switched from VHI to BUPA last year because BUPA were cheaper and VHI were a disaster from an admin point of view. Had one claim in the meantime and it was settled in full and without any hitches. I personally would recommend BUPA over VHI.


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## Sludge (26 Nov 2003)

*The admin in VHI is hit and miss.*

Presently I am having unbelieveable administration problems with the VHI. So much so that I will be changing to Bupa at next renewal. VHI seem incapable of dealing with the simplest of queries in an efficient manner.


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## cuchullain (29 Nov 2003)

*bupa v vhi*

been with vhi for over 20 years. B options. one member of family now over 21. unfortunately student (forever)
found it much easier and cheaper to cancel cover for her with vhi and enroll her in bupa's most basic plan. Anyone can get sick etc but she is 21 and do 21 year olds need more than basic cover?. After all the government should be looking after health cover for its citizens. Don't get me started.


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## Skinflint (29 Nov 2003)

*.*

Many of the different VHI and BUPA levels of cover really only differ in terms of the ACCOMMODATION costs that they cover while the MEDICAL costs cover is the more or less the same. Many people go for higher than the basic plan because they would prefer semi-private or private cover or cover for private hospitals. Some people assume that such accommodation will be guaranteed but it is always subject to availability. I imagine some people mistakenly assume that higher cost plans offer better MEDICAL cover than lower cost plans but this is not the case. Obviously some more expensive plans offer more extensive cover for certain procedures so do check the terms and conditions carefully. Anybody can elect to go public for hospital treatment and not have to pay unlimited costs. The problem with elective procedures is that you may end up on a waiting list so being treated under health insurance can expedite matters. To be honest, for a generally healthy 21 year old I would nearly be inclined to forego private health insurance altogether. However if she does decide to go for it I reckon that the most basic plan would suffice. She'll have to slum it on the public wards should a hospital stay be required but so what?


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## rainyday (29 Nov 2003)

*Re: .*

The distinction between accomodation & medical costs is not always that clear. My brother underwent a heart procedure in one of the major Dublin private hospitals and recieved a bill for 'accomodation' costs of about 15k euro for a 3-day stay.

It seemed that the hospital had piled in everything other than the consultants direct fee under 'accomodation' which was not what my brother was expecting. He was querying this with VHI & the hospital. I'm not sure of the final outcome.


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## cuchullain (30 Nov 2003)

*bupa v  vhi*

skinflint
I agree with you entirely. My one consideration was balancing whether the cost of a basic plan offset the possabililty of a waiting list. I decided on the basic plan. basically I am purchasing peace of mind.I am also of the opinion that if a 21 year old was admitted to hospital chances are, regardless of plan, they would wind up in a public ward anyway.


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## Skinflint (30 Nov 2003)

*.*



> The distinction between accomodation & medical costs is not always that clear



Yes - but that's a separate issue of some hospitals not billing patients correctly/legitimately. In my experience you often have to query bills, make sure to get a proper itemisation/break-down, check for duplicated charges etc. I'm not sure if this due to poor administrative practices on the part of some hospitals or something more sinister. Again in my experience BUPA are a lot better at helping out with this than VHI.


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## Tintagel (2 Dec 2003)

*I prefer to have a good holiday with the money.*

I joined VHI at age 18 and made my first claim at age 40. Since then I have made no further claim and I am now 51. I have paid a lot of money to VHI and receive very little back. If I ever say this to anyone I always get the same reaction. "Well you were very lucky, I know so and so who had to ....." or words similar.
The problem is and always has been "the fear factor". What if I get sick etc. 
Now at age 51 the likely hood of me getting ill increases so I guess I will stay with them for the long run. However I have three sons in their 20's. One of them has decided not to take out insurance. One is now paying for it himself. The youngest who has been on my policy since he was born had an emergency appendicitis last year but ended up in a public ward anyhow. VHI membership was of absolutely no benefit to him either.
He doesn't want to take it out either and considers paying over €400 per annum a complete waste of money.

But you know something. Looking back I fully agree with him.  As a previous poster pointed out we need some cheaper insurance products for younger people or even better MORE VARIETY of products for everyone.


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## Dr Benton (3 Dec 2003)

*Re: I prefer to have a good holiday with the money.*

Two observations on Tintagels comments:

1. If "cheaper insurance products for younger people" are provided the corollary of this is more expensive products for older people. The community rating system is at the core of the pricing structure in health insurance. An individual's age is not a discriminatory factor in the cost of obtaining cover under this system.

2. "The youngest who has been on my policy since he was born had an emergency appendicitis last year but ended up in a public ward anyhow. VHI membership was of absolutely no benefit to him either." 
Health insurance is of very limited benefit in the setting of an emergency. If you don't believe me, try tapping on the door of a private hospital with acute appendicitis on a Saturday afternoon. Many private groups have considered developing a "private" emergency service. None have done so. From this I conclude that they believe it would be uneconomic to do so. The main function of health insurance is to allow choice of doctor, venue and timing of care for semi-elective and elective conditions. Any health care insurance company that leads you to believe they are interested in providing you with a superior type of service in the event of an acute emergency is making a misleading representation, IMHO.

>dr b


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## IsleOfMan (3 Dec 2003)

*Set up my own medical fund*

The cost of insuring myself and my wife on the basic Plan B with VHI this year is over €900. When you consider that the excess on outpatients is over €400 before you can make a claim then the real cost is €900+€400 for most people. (because you end up paying €400 in outpatients bills out of your own pocket before VHI will refund you a penny)

It has now got to the stage where I am considering opting out completely, sticking the premium I would have paid to rip off VHI in the credit union and calling it "my personal medical fund". As I need medical care I will dip into it.


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## Larkenn (8 Dec 2003)

*What a brilliant idea - make our own fund*

What a brilliant idea.  I was considering joining VHI or BUPA but now I'm wondering whats the point?  I'd be paying €420 a year plus the €220 excess - €640 before I can even start to claim.  And even then you are only given a portion of what you paid back - so add this in aswell and private health care is looking very expensive.  I'm thinking of joinging the HSF (Hospital Saturday Fund) instead.  These have no excess, pay you within 14days of a claim and cover things like dental fillings and spectacles.  They also give money for hospital stays and outpatient treatment.  Its probably less than VHI or BUPA offer but when you consider excess costs, it could be something similar.  The public health service is better than it is made out to be.  A lot of scaremongering is taking place now - I believe to scare people into parting with their money and joining private health insurance, even if you can't afford to.

If you put all the money you would contribute to VHI/BUPA into a bank account, over a number of years you'd have a hell of a lot of money.  You could probably pay cash for most things you need.


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## rainyday (8 Dec 2003)

*Re: What a brilliant idea - make our own fund*

My brother spend 2 days in the Mater Private for a heart treatment this year.  He was advised that the public waiting list for this treatment was in excess of 2 years and the NTPF was not covering this kind of treatment yet.

The total bill was around 15k - roughly equivalent to 20 years VHI contributions.

The proposal to self-insure will work for some people. But if you require a long stay in hospital or a high-tech treatment, you will be facing a large funding gap and/or long delays in the public system.


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## Skinflint (8 Dec 2003)

*.*

I'd agree with Rainyday. Redirecting the premiums to some sort of savings vehicle might suit some people who don't reckon they need private health insurance (e.g. a young, generally healthy individual with no significant lifestyle risk factors) but if something does arise that needs to be dealt with privately or on an expedited basis then these savings may not cover the cost. Don't underestimate the cost of certain medical procedures! Anybody who decides that they would be happier having private medical insurance should consider carefully what level of ACCOMMODATION cover that they require/prefer and select the appropriate plan. As I mentioned before, many plans differ mainly or only in terms of the ACCOMMODATION cover provided. However always read the terms & conditions carefully in case MEDICAL/PROCEDURAL cover also differs.


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## IsleOfMan (12 Dec 2003)

*Touch wood.*

But... If a husband and wife are paying circa €975 euro per annum to VHI and also as in my case paying two at circa €450 and one at student rate about €160... this adds up to a whopping €2000 per annum. If I had put this in to a savings account a few years ago there would be in excess of €5k in that account by now.  The likelyhood of everyone having a heart attack at the same time or other serious illness are slim....touch wood...If nobody gets sick then it becomes a great retirement fund.


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## rainyday (13 Dec 2003)

*Re: Touch wood.*

But that's the whole point of insurance. You don't have to touch wood - you pay the price and let someone else take the risk. Either you want insurance or you don't!


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## XXXAnother PersonXXX (13 Dec 2003)

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> You don't have to touch wood



You do have to 'touch wood' that they don't wriggle out of it - like in your brother's case.


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## rainyday (13 Dec 2003)

*Re: .*

De brudder's problem was not with VHI - it was the with the hospital. And they were covering 90% of his bill without quibble anyway.


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## MAC (14 Dec 2003)

*How do I compare VHI plan C to BUPA?*

Just got my  bill from VHI for 2 adults and 2 kids (€2.5k as they say "gross")......this is for plan C.

Can someone please advise what the compareable BUPA scheme / cost is?

Are there are restrictions on changing ie. if one member has a condition etc.?

Thanks
MAC


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (14 Dec 2003)

*Re: How do I compare VHI plan C to BUPA?*

One you are already covered then there is no problem with transferring. If you have served the required period of time to gain full cover for even pre-existing conditions with one insurer then that counts with the other one. Ditto for any partial time served. Check the specific terms & conditions but I think that BUPA's Essential Plus or maybe HealthManager Starter might be comparable to plan C. As far as I know plan C mainly differs from Plan B in terms of the number of hospitals and the level of accommodation covered. 

[broken link removed]


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## MAC (15 Dec 2003)

*Thanks 0*

Much appreciated!

MAC


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## daltonr (15 Dec 2003)

*Re: Thanks 0*

Anyone have any thoughts about the best time to start insuring.

E.g. Pay into a savings account up to the sage of say 45, then start an insurance policy.

This avoids the downside of comunity rating, while accepting a little bit of risk.  You avoid overpaying when you're young fit and healthy, build up some savings, and then take advantage of community rating in your 50's, in the meantime your savings will probably cover the excess that you'd have had to pay even if you had been insured.

Perhaps a selfish approach, but does anyone know at what age insurance becomes good value in a community rating system?

-Rd


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (15 Dec 2003)

*Re: Thanks 0*

Some things to note:

- the older you are the longer the "probationary" period you have to serve for full cover and cover for pre-existing conditions

- VHI have been pushing for something called "risk equalisation" which may affect any strategies to defer obtaining medical insurance cover until later in life (I'm not sure as I haven't read up on it in sufficient detail).

- perhaps community rating will not always be with us?

In my view people who decide that they want/need medical insurance cover should think carefully about the level of ACCOMMODATION cover that they need/want and not overinsure on that basis. On the basis that I don't care slumming it on the public wards I've gone for the bog standard BUPA Essential (Only) plan.


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## tedd (17 Dec 2003)

> Anyone have any thoughts about the best time to start insuring



The best time to buy insurance is before you get sick.


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