# separating to go bankrupt in the UK



## Cantalia (21 May 2013)

My husband will go alone as a separated man. We have two children at home with me. Thankfully the family home is mine since before we married and the debt is his. We don't have a formal separation agreement, will that e a problem? And thanks again


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## Cantalia (21 May 2013)

No car, the apt is a one bed, about 700£pm, but his job offer is 36k pa so we worried about an IPO? Also Steve have you ever tried to file the petition, then contact the Irish bank in Ireland and see if they would take a lump sum and write off the rest rather than letting the bankruptcy go ahead and get nothing???? I know it's a bit fairy tale but my husband is very upset about being a bankrupt. Also if he did get an IPO what are the chances if them letting you pay it off in one lump sum if a family member would put up the cash? At least then the whole thing would be finished. I worry that three years of a further IPO would have a severe effect of my husbands mental state. The stress has caused a lot of medical problems.


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## Steve Thatcher (21 May 2013)

Cantalia said:


> My husband will go alone as a separated man. We have two children at home with me. Thankfully the family home is mine since before we married and the debt is his. We don't have a formal separation agreement, will that e a problem? And thanks again




No all that makes it very simple. The separated man with no ties or property back in Ireland. No one will look twice. £1800 a month net should see him right.

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com


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## Cantalia (21 May 2013)

You know Steve by now we are so exhausted from fear worry and stress that I wonder if we could handle the situation but on the worst day we read someone on this site saying they wished they did it earlier or that it was the best thing they did and that boosts us along another bit. Thanks for all your contributions, it means a lot to a lot of us on the ground in Ireland to have someone who is actually conducting the business of it over there to give his free time and advice. On a bad day it can be a lifeline.


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## Cantalia (22 May 2013)

Thanks everyone.


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## Cantalia (22 May 2013)

Jim, could I just ask is this debt forgiveness negotiated with the bank on foot of COMI being established already and so the threat of bankruptcy and getting nothing is hanging over them , or are people simply negotiating in this new way now from home?  For us we thought we would file the petition and then have one last ditch attempt with the bank before the hearing day when we could withdraw the application if we weren't going ahead.


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## Jim Stafford (23 May 2013)

It is possible to negotiate debt forgiveness from here without going to the UK.  I would not advise any client to file a petition in the UK and then attempt to negotiate, as the petition is likely to have been heard before the Bank's credit committee have had time to consider any proposal.

An essential element of any debt forgiveness is the ability to either give a lump of cash to the bank (or charges over unencumbered property) or to enter into a 5 year payment plan using surplus earnings.  The majority of the debt forgiveness deals that we have achieved in Ireland to date have been of the "lump sum" variety. If you do not have a "lump sum" then it gets much more difficult to persuade a bank to write off a large debt for what would be comparatively small income payments over 5 years.

A useful tactic (if you have a "lump sum" available) might be to go to the UK and try an Individual Voluntary Arrangement ("IVA").  Some of our clients have been successful with these arrangements.  If you need advice on IVA's you could email Charles Turner of FRP Advisory charles.turner@frpadvisory.com (FRP are a specialist insolvency firm with 29 partners and 9 offices in England & Wales)

Jim Stafford


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## Bronte (23 May 2013)

Jim Stafford said:


> I am unable to name particular banks, but one major bank is now offering debt forgiveness deals (in anticipation of the new Personal Insolvency Arrangements etc.)


 
As discussed yesterday we now have confirmation that PTSB are doing debt forgiveness.  Not sure if it's the same bank Jim is referring to in his post but if it's not than it's now 2 banks.  Jim can you say if it's not the PTSB?


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## Brokeashell (23 May 2013)

From my own personal experience with PTSB what they offered me was voluntary surrender of the properties but want me to voluntarily accept judgement for the negative equity (approx €1.2m). Effectively you could look at it as a type of write off BUT those judgements would hang over me for 12 years so I could never be sure when they might come knocking on the door for that period of time particularly if I got going again or inherited money or won the damn lotto. Is there evidence that they are simply doing write offs without judgement?


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## Dr.Debt (23 May 2013)

There is absolutely no chance that they are doing write-offs without judgments......


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## Bronte (23 May 2013)

Dr.Debt said:


> There is absolutely no chance that they are doing write-offs without judgments......


 
What kind of judgments do you mean?  In any case they are writing off debt, and that means people can start to rebuild their lives and have some hope.  Something we are sadly lacking in for a lot of people.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 May 2013)

Brokeashell said:


> From my own personal experience with PTSB what they offered me was voluntary surrender of the properties but want me to voluntarily accept judgement for the negative equity (approx €1.2m).



Did they actually ask you to content to a formal judgement order for the shortfall? 

That strikes me as a bit odd. They would be better off waiting 5 years and then getting the order as it would last another 12 years. 

With €1.2m of a shortfall, they are much more likely to keep the file open. On family homes with shortfalls of €100k or €200k, I hope that they will actually close the files and approve short DSAs.


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## Importer (23 May 2013)

A new picture is now emerging of "Write-offs" and other solutions with conditions

Jeremy Masding spoke about write offs for unsustainable debt "at the end of" a period of cooperation with the debtor.

We have heard about banks agreeing to the sale of  properties in negative equity if the debtor consents to an uncontested judgment

We have heard of banks agreeing to the sale of property in negative equity with a condition of signing an acknowledgment and acceptance of the remaining debt.

We have heard of banks negotiating with buy to let debtors agreeing to a write off of unsustainable debt but only after six years of regular monthly payments and surrender of all assets

So far we have heard no hint of immediate write offs to allow debtors get on with their lives.

I think this is a huge mistake on the part of the banks and will push more and more debtors to the UK bankruptcy option


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## Steve Thatcher (23 May 2013)

Importer said:


> A new picture is now emerging of "Write-offs" and other solutions with conditions
> 
> Jeremy Masding spoke about write offs for unsustainable debt "at the end of" a period of cooperation with the debtor.
> 
> ...



I think this is right. The whole tenure of the comments from the Central Bank today seemed to be, 'pay everything you can for the whole term of the mortgage and then if the property is still worth less than the outstanding sum, there will be an element of write off at that point'

This seems to me to be a very expensive way to 'rent' your house.

Correct me if I have mis-read this

Steve Thatcher


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