# Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?



## Dinging (6 Jul 2007)

My wife was in Kildare village last night shopping and saw a dress she liked, it was marked at £65.00 sterling. When she went to pay the shop assistant said the price in Euro was €165.00, my wife had calculated this dress should cost no more than €100 Euro based upon the rate of exchange. This was almost a €70 Euro mark up based upon the rate of 1.5. My wife said this was a rip off. The shop assistant said that shipping costs etc had to be taken into account however my wife persisted and refused to pay this price and was offered a 10% discount which she refused. The shop assistant then called the shop owner who refused to sell the dress for anything less than the €165.00 Euro price. My wife offered to pay in sterling as this was the marked price and actually had a friend with her who had the 65 sterling in cash however the shop assistant refused. After some haggling the shop assistant gave a 20% discount on the Euro price. When packing up the dress the shop assistant went to cut off the sterling price tag, my wife told her to leave it on as the dress had been paid for and the tag showing the sterling price was part of the dress as she bought it, in the end after some arguing the tag was left on. From a consumer point of view is this a rip off, can the shop be fined for misleading prices or not displaying the correct prices, or charging what is over the current rate of exchange.


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Was there a Euro price tag of €165.00 on the dress when it was on display.

If the Euro price of €165 was not indicated on the price tag, then there is clear evidence of a ripoff and you should contact www.odca.ie to complain and assert your statutory rights.

If the Euro price of €165 was not indicated on the price tag, it could be argued that there is no ripoff _as such_,( although you would wonder what the hell is going on if a STG£65 item is marked up to €165). Again a call to the ODCA would be in order.


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## CCOVICH (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

The GBP price is irrelevant. The same applies in M&S, Debenhams etc. The € price does not have to be the GBP price at the ruling exchange rate.

Zara and H&M etc. charges different prices in Ireland from Spain.

As always, a price is an 'invitation to treat'.


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## jhegarty (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

If there was a Euro price on it , then not a rip off.....


Was there ?


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

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CCOVICH said:


> The GBP price is irrelevant. The same applies in M&S, Debenhams etc. The € price does not have to be the GBP price at the ruling exchange rate.



Yes but the respective Euro & Sterling price tags in Penneys, M&S, Debenhams etc rarely reflect anything more than a minor rounding difference on the currency conversion. The above case is a different kettle of fish altogether.


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## Mpsox (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

should bear in mind also different VAT rates which does drive up costs in Ireland, and carraige costs. Having said that, €70 is a bit much


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## CCOVICH (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

If it was a chain store, then I guess you can complain to their head office.

I seem to recall a complaint about Claire's in the Irish Times Pricewatch section some time ago, but I'm not sure of the outcome.

Maybe a letter to Conor Pope is in order?

I don't think there is any case for an official complaint (i.e. to a statutory/State body).


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## Purple (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*



Dinging said:


> My wife was in Kildare village last night shopping and saw a dress she liked, it was marked at £65.00 sterling. When she went to pay the shop assistant said the price in Euro was €165.00, my wife had calculated this dress should cost no more than €100 Euro based upon the rate of exchange. This was almost a €70 Euro mark up based upon the rate of 1.5. My wife said this was a rip off. The shop assistant said that shipping costs etc had to be taken into account however my wife persisted and refused to pay this price and was offered a 10% discount which she refused. The shop assistant then called the shop owner who refused to sell the dress for anything less than the €165.00 Euro price. My wife offered to pay in sterling as this was the marked price and actually had a friend with her who had the 65 sterling in cash however the shop assistant refused. After some haggling the shop assistant gave a 20% discount on the Euro price. When packing up the dress the shop assistant went to cut off the sterling price tag, my wife told her to leave it on as the dress had been paid for and the tag showing the sterling price was part of the dress as she bought it, in the end after some arguing the tag was left on. From a consumer point of view is this a rip off, can the shop be fined for misleading prices or not displaying the correct prices, or charging what is over the current rate of exchange.


As far as I know the shop is obliged to display the full price, inclusive of all taxes etc, in Euro. A Stirling can be shown but only if a Euro price is also shown. Again, and I am open to correction, but I think they are required to sell at the displayed price.


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## Dinging (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Just toconfirm there was no Euro price tag on the dress only the £65.00 sterling price tag.


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

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CCOVICH said:


> I don't think there is any case for an official complaint (i.e. to a statutory/State body).



Even if the Euro price was not displayed on the product?


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## Trish2006 (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

I picked up a top in Mango once that had a price of €28.  When I went to pay I was asked for €41.  When I queried it I was told €28 was the portuguese price and that the Irish price was €41.  Sure enough every other top had a price sticker over the €28 saying €41, had obviously fallen off the top I picked up.  Sales assistant agreed that the discrepancy was outrageous.  Said that they were told there were different prices because of different economic factors which is fair enough, but that she herself couldn't understand why some goods were 10% dearer and some 40% dearer.  Surely the percentage should be the same.  Needless to say I didn't buy it.

There was a debate on another forum over Mothercare pricing good higher in ROI than in the UK.  One example given was the Phil and Teds buggy £299 vs €499 = a difference of about €50.  But €499 is the standard price in Ireland for that buggy so to be fair, why should one shop have to sell it cheaper just because they have branches in another country.  For the sake of their business they should be charging the going rate.  Everything is a different price in different countries, it's just a fact.  I notice people come home from holidays and marvel at how a can of heineken was only x price in teh local spar but do these people go into spar in dublin and complain that they're being ripped off cos it's 4 times the cost it was in Spain.
A shop will always charge what a customer is willing to pay.

As for paying in Sterling, the Irish shop works through Euro, that's the currency of the country and their bank accounts.  There's no reason they should have to accept sterling.

And is it a rup off just because they hadn't a price sticker on it.  I know that legally they are supposed to display prices but does that mean that any product whose price is not clearly marked in a shop is a rip off?


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## demoivre (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Purple is correct. This shop is breaking the law which, under the EC (Requirements to Indicate Product Prices) Regulations 2002, retailers must show the correct selling price in euro including taxes. See [broken link removed].


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

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Trish2006 said:


> For the sake of their business they should be charging the going rate.  Everything is a different price in different countries, it's just a fact.  I notice people come home from holidays and marvel at how a can of heineken was only x price in teh local spar but do these people go into spar in dublin and complain that they're being ripped off cos it's 4 times the cost it was in Spain.



Problem is that people in Ireland will not tolerate minimum wage rates being pegged by reference to the corresponding rates in Spain.

Neither will the authorities accept taxes and service charge rates being pegged by reference to the corresponding rates in Spain.


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## Jock04 (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Surely having a sterling price ticket on it would lead most people to believe they could roughly calculate the price in Euro.
A difference of the amount stated above would seem to suggest that the sterling price ticket was misleading & should have been removed prior to the item going on display.


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## CCOVICH (6 Jul 2007)

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ubiquitous said:


> Even if the Euro price was not displayed on the product?


 

I was unclear as to whether or not there was a euro price displayed (until the OP clarified), if there wasn't, then it would seem there are grounds for a complaint.

And maybe this explains why the shop were willing to haggle on the price?


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## Dinging (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Thanks all,  I think the next step is to take this to the national consumer agency and see what they have to say.


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## foxylady (6 Jul 2007)

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Dinging said:


> My wife was in Kildare village last night shopping and saw a dress she liked, it was marked at £65.00 sterling. When she went to pay the shop assistant said the price in Euro was €165.00, my wife had calculated this dress should cost no more than €100 Euro based upon the rate of exchange. This was almost a €70 Euro mark up based upon the rate of 1.5. My wife said this was a rip off. The shop assistant said that shipping costs etc had to be taken into account however my wife persisted and refused to pay this price and was offered a 10% discount which she refused. The shop assistant then called the shop owner who refused to sell the dress for anything less than the €165.00 Euro price. My wife offered to pay in sterling as this was the marked price and actually had a friend with her who had the 65 sterling in cash however the shop assistant refused. After some haggling the shop assistant gave a 20% discount on the Euro price. When packing up the dress the shop assistant went to cut off the sterling price tag, my wife told her to leave it on as the dress had been paid for and the tag showing the sterling price was part of the dress as she bought it, in the end after some arguing the tag was left on. From a consumer point of view is this a rip off, can the shop be fined for misleading prices or not displaying the correct prices, or charging what is over the current rate of exchange.


 

Why did she buy the dress if she felt she was being done. Surely she could have just left it down and walked out.


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## Trish2006 (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

As far as I can see the problem is simply that the shop didn't display a euro price which contravenes the law referred to by deMoivre.  But I don't know if I'd consider that to constitute a rip off.
Unfortunately it happens all to frequently.  I've often been in, e.g. Dunnes stores, where a whole rack of clothing has the tags with the printed sterling price but the irish stickers haven't been put on yet.
I agree that it is misleading to only have the sterling price especially when that is so far from the Irish price.  However from years of buying in shops like Debenhams, M&S, etc. I've reached the conclusion that the only way to know the price in this situation is to ask.  You just cannot assume that the current exchange rate applies. Even though it's usually close enough there is always that one product you want that's a good bit off (in either direction).

Ubiquitous, I know I used Spain as an example but even compare the price of drink in Dunnes in Newry vs Dunnes in Dublin since this is a debate about Sterling vs Euro.  I just find that whatever the reasons, justified or not, Ireland is an expensive country for the consumer.


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## z108 (6 Jul 2007)

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Dinging said:


> it was marked at £65.00 sterling. When she went to pay the shop assistant said the price in Euro was €165.00, my wife had calculated this dress should cost no more than €100 Euro based upon the rate of exchange. This was almost a €70 Euro mark up based upon the rate of 1.5. My wife said this was a rip off.





My first observation is. Is this type of shop legally obliged to display its prices ?  Unless the sterling price is valid, there was no price displayed.

The second observation is the wife bought it anyway at an agreed price and an item is worth whatever somebody is prepared to pay for it . If the price was agreed before the sale was closed then thats not a rip off. Who wouldnt ask the real price in euro when faced with a sterling tag ?


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## ClubMan (6 Jul 2007)

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sign said:


> Is this type of shop legally obliged to display its prices ?


What "type"? It's a common or garden clothes shop as far as I can see. As far as I know they should have displayed (presumably €) all inclusive prices but according to this it seems that the _NCA _has no power to prosecute retailers for breaches of the pricing rules...


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

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Trish2006 said:


> Ubiquitous, I know I used Spain as an example but even compare the price of drink in Dunnes in Newry vs Dunnes in Dublin since this is a debate about Sterling vs Euro.  I just find that whatever the reasons, justified or not, Ireland is an expensive country for the consumer.



Hi Trish

I have heard this explained on the basis that the minimum wage for shopfloor staff in NI is a couple of £ short of the equivalent minimum wage in ROI. Apparently most shopfloor staff are on minimum wage. Whether this was true or just spin I don't know. In relation to drink, the price difference is also explained by the much higher VAT & excise duties in ROI. On the other hand petrol is subject to much higher excise duties in NI and is about 30% or so dearer than in ROI.


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## z108 (6 Jul 2007)

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ClubMan said:


> What "type"? It's a common or garden clothes shop as far as I can see.



Whatever type of shop it is. Bars are  'alcohol shops' and they are obliged to display correct prices are they not ? ( I often dont see the prices displayed which is another issue)


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## ClubMan (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

It was a clothes shop by the sound of the original post.


Dinging said:


> My wife was in Kildare village last night shopping and saw a dress she liked, it was marked at £65.00 sterling.


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## ubiquitous (6 Jul 2007)

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ClubMan said:


> What "type"? It's a common or garden clothes shop as far as I can see. As far as I know they should have displayed (presumably €) all inclusive prices but according to this it seems that the _NCA _has no power to prosecute retailers for breaches of the pricing rules...



The ODCA threatened to prosecute a service station owner for displaying misleading petrol prices after one of my friends brought the case to their attention a few years ago.


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## Purple (6 Jul 2007)

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ClubMan said:


> What "type"? It's a common or garden clothes shop as far as I can see. As far as I know they should have displayed (presumably €) all inclusive prices but according to this it seems that the _NCA _has no power to prosecute retailers for breaches of the pricing rules...



From above link (Bold added to text by me); _This may be a misleading price claim by the trader and this practice is prohibited by consumer legislation. The price displayed should include all taxes and other charges (delivery, postal, etc), if applicable, and should not mislead the consumer in any way. The National Consumer Agency *has* the power to prosecute offences in breach of this legislation._

Am I missing something?


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## Trish2006 (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*



ubiquitous said:


> In relation to drink, the price difference is also explained by the much higher VAT & excise duties in ROI. On the other hand petrol is subject to much higher excise duties in NI and is about 30% or so dearer than in ROI.


 
My point exactly.  The economic factors in 2 different countries will never be identical so one cannot assume or expect that the same product will cost the same in 2 different countries even if it's in the same shop.  This is just a fact of life.  I remember these price 'discrepancies' first coming to light when the major British stores moved into the Irish market, e.g. Debenhams, Boots, Next, River Island, etc., even Tesco.  Suddenly people could see what the price was in Sterling because it was printed on the tag and were up in arms.  But of course it had always been this way, just now it was being broadcast to the consumer, and funnily enough noone complained when the exchange rate changed in their favour and suddenly the goods were cheaper here.  The Book People catalogues have a huge difference in pirce.  Many children's books are £2.99 but €6.49 and the new Harry Potter is £12.99 vs €24.49.  They claim distribution costs, etc. but unfortunately even with their online service they don't allow you to order from the UK site for delivery to Ireland.
At the end of the day you buy it or you don't - your choice.


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## ClubMan (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

Sorry - my mistake on the _NCA _powers. I misread the page and thought that they did *NOT *have the power to prosecute when, in fact, they obviously *DO*!


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## emaol (6 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*

I think someone mentioned "invitation to treat" earlier in the thread.

As far as I can see, the product had a price, which invited the OP's wife to treat. She did, negotiated a price, and paid. End of the deal.

Correct change, free receipt, free bag, free swing-tag, away she goes. 

20% discount from the store wouldn't be an admission of guilt to me, rather an inducement to take the item and just go!


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## CCOVICH (7 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off?*



emaol said:


> I think someone mentioned "invitation to treat" earlier in the thread.
> 
> As far as I can see, the product had a price, which invited the OP's wife to treat. She did, negotiated a price, and paid. End of the deal.
> 
> ...





Yes-I mentioned that, but it would appear that the shop is legally obliged to display a euro price (which they didn't).


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## emaol (11 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?*

If a retailer makes a mistake and the actual price for the item is more than that displayed the retailers have certain rights. They do not automatically have to sell you the goods at the price stated. It is the retailer's responsibility to correct the mistake as soon as possible. If the retailer *knowingly* charges more for a product than is displayed an offence may be committed. Generally, if you are told the correct price before you pay, you have no right to redress. If you notice the error after you have paid, you should bring the matter to the retailer's attention who, most likely, would refund you the difference. You could also report the matter to the National Consumer Agency. The office will investigate the complaint with the objective of ensuring future compliance with the Act. This however does not mean financial redress for the individual complainant

From the Citizens Information website, highlighted earlier in the thread.

It would appear to me that the shop made a mistake, and told the correct price before the purchase, therefore no redress necessary.

The seperate question of margins shops make on the goods they sell is not relevant to the discussion. Clothes in particular are subject to the laws of supply and demand and a shop will charge what it feels is a reasonable price in the context of its own market.


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## CCOVICH (11 Jul 2007)

You are missing the point-there was no *€* price on the article, only a *GBP£* price-from what others have said, this is an offence. 

I agree fully with what you are saying if we are talking about the incorrect display of a € price, but in this case there was no € price displayed, only a GBP£ price.

Are you disagreeing with what Purple and demoivre have said above?



			
				Purple said:
			
		

> As far as I know the shop is obliged to display the full price, inclusive of all taxes etc, in Euro. A Stirling can be shown but only if a Euro price is also shown. Again, and I am open to correction, but I think they are required to sell at the displayed price.


 


			
				demoivre said:
			
		

> Purple is correct. This shop is breaking the law which, under the EC (Requirements to Indicate Product Prices) Regulations 2002, retailers must show the correct selling price in euro including taxes. See [broken link removed].


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## KalEl (11 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?*

There should be no confusion here...the issue is the item (a dress, was it?) not having a price on it. This is an offence. Charging a high Euro price relative to the Sterling price, although morally dubious, is perfectly acceptable.


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## Yoltan (11 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?*

I am a regular visitor to Kildare Village and while I don't know which shop this took place in I do know that there is a shoe shop there that prices all their shoes in sterling but you pay the exact price in euro eg  25GBP = 25E. 

In saying that, I wouldn't have bought the dress. Why buy it when you know you're being clearly robbed? I would have taken note of all details and complained in writing.


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## emaol (12 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?*

CCOVICH

Not disagreeing with the legislation linked to by demoivre, it is an offence not to display a euro price, however, the legislation makes no mention relating to mistakes made by the store.

The Citizens Information website does indicate that a store can remedy a mistake, if done so before a transaction.

To my mind, the store in question did this, therefore there was no offence.

(Assuming the store is not habitually doing this!)


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## KalEl (12 Jul 2007)

*Re: Is this a Rip Off: dress marked stg£65 but €165 was asked for?*



emaol said:


> CCOVICH
> 
> Not disagreeing with the legislation linked to by demoivre, it is an offence not to display a euro price, however, the legislation makes no mention relating to mistakes made by the store.
> 
> ...


 
Yes there was an offence!
There was no Euro price displayed


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## NCA2007 (12 Jul 2007)

Good Afternoon All

Just to clarify, under Irish Consumer legislation a retailer has the legal obligation to have the item priced, i.e. the Dress. The currency should be EURO, but they can display any other currency they want on the tag.
If they do not, contact the National Consumer Agency, formally the ODCA, at 1890 432 432  or ask@consumerconnect.ie to pass on details of the shop etc so we can look into the matter. 
The issue of exchange rates, this all be it sharp practice, is not illegal. The retailers obligation is to display the EURO price if the Sterling price is on the tag they have no obligation to exchange exactly according to current exchange rates.

I hope this sheds some light on the issue.

NCA2007


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