# Residents Association Looking for money



## Lilly2099

We got a strongly worded leaflet from our local residents association yesterday looking for a prompt payment of €200 from everyone to contribute towards grasscutting for the year. The estate is not run by a management company so we dont pay any fees to agencies etc at it was taken charge by the council in 2007. I was annoyed by the tone of the letter which was sent as I found it to be almost threatning. There are about 120 houses in the estate and I have spoken to at 5 others neighbours from the road who have said they will not be paying the fee as they are not in a financial position to do so with many other bils to pay etc also based on principal. We have discussed the option that we ourselves are happy to maintain our own grass using our own lawnmowers. With residents associations my understanding in contributions are voluntary. Im not bothered about the association naming and shaming that we havent paid as they had advised they will do and I also do not care if it creates bad blood with the residents association just wanted to know peoples thought. Thanks.


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## Guest116

200 is a lot. Thats a total of 24,000 if they got everyone to contribute. Why do they need so much money??

I have also found the resident association in my estate to be quite difficult, on one hand they ask for money but when you ask questions they get very defensive. I think residents associations must attract a certain type of person. But it is also a tricky one because they do give up their free time to arrange things for the improvement and upkeep of the estate.

You dont have to give the full 200, you could give what you can afford be that 10, 20 euros or whatever.


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## Yorrick

If the estate was taken in charge by the local Council surely it is their responsibility to cut the grass. We are just after having lovcal elections and these are the jobs which the Councillors should be ensuring are done. 
If you give €200 to the Residents Assoc. for grass cutting who decides which firm to emply to cut the grass. 
Is it a case of "a friend of a friend"  i.e Is a backhander involved ?
Will three competitive quotes be obtained ?

The problem with Residents Assoc. is that not everyone wantsa to be involved which results in the local busybody taking charge


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## Setanta12

Why not get involved yourself in your Residents Association ?

Why do people always moan without getting involved. The OP merely was venting - did he even pose a question ?

Yes, its steep - too steep. But seek to get involved. Have some control of, and some input into your community.


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## samanthajane

€200 for grass cutting, total of 24k ( a year i assume ) i'll take that job. 

I thought it was bad i was asked for €10 a month towards a so called neighbour watch which doesn't even seem to exist. 

I dont get it since the council has taken over your estate., Were still waiting for that at the moment but the council refuse untill the builders have finished up and do what they promised/ legally oblidged to do. 3 years and still counting. 

I would name and shame them not the other way around. That a lot of money for some really which really shouldn't cost anything. Our next door neighbour since he not working anymore has great delight in cutting people's front gardens and along the paths. Says it keeps him busy. Even when he was working he still did this for the few very close to him.


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## Guest116

Setanta12 said:


> Why do people always moan without getting involved.


 
Why do those who are involved moan about everyone else who isn't?


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## g1g

our contribution is €50 and hasn't changed in the last few years. Happy enough to pay it as the grass is cut very regularly.  Involved in residents association myself and very few people refused to pay.  Definitely think yours is too steep. Give a ring around to various landscaping companies to get some quotes and approach residents association with them to show that you can get it for cheaper.  

Cutting the grass yourselves is all well in good but then you have to get rid of the cuttings - our landscaper takes this away included in the price.


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## markpb

aristotle25 said:


> 200 is a lot. Thats a total of 24,000 if they got everyone to contribute. Why do they need so much money??





samanthajane said:


> €200 for grass cutting, total of 24k ( a year i assume ) i'll take that job.



Do either of you know the size of the OPs estate, do you know the amount of work involved in maintaining it? Or is it more likely that you looked at the total and said, "That's a lot of money, surely no-one would pay that for grass cutting?" There are large estates which require a lot of time and effort to maintain. For example, my estate is 16 acres and has extensive landscaping so it's not just grass-cutting. We pay c. €33k a year for the landscaping service. 



Yorrick said:


> If the estate was taken in charge by the local Council surely it is their responsibility to cut the grass.



Some county councils such as Meath co co don't have a parks dept. and will refuse to landscape any estates that are taken in charge. In this case, it's up to the owners/residents to look after that expense themselves.


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## Guest116

markpb said:


> Do either of you know the size of the OPs estate, do you know the amount of work involved in maintaining it? Or is it more likely that you looked at the total and said, "That's a lot of money, surely no-one would pay that for grass cutting?" There are large estates which require a lot of time and effort to maintain. For example, my estate is 16 acres and has extensive landscaping so it's not just grass-cutting. We pay c. €33k a year for the landscaping service. .


 
The OPs estate is 120 houses, my estate is 80 and the grass cutting contractors charge less than 3k to cut it every week.

So I am basing my opinion on what would be a reasonble comparison.


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## markpb

aristotle25 said:


> The OPs estate is 120 houses, my estate is 80 and the grass cutting contractors charge less than 3k to cut it every week. So I am basing my opinion on what would be a reasonable comparison.



That's my point, it's just a guess - the layout of the estates, the amount of grass areas, the type of work required to maintain any flower beds, etc, all contribute to the cost. Without knowing the OP's estate, it's almost impossible to calculate the cost.


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## g1g

mine has 180 houses. Don't know how much green area in acres but it is alot.


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## MrMan

aristotle25 said:


> The OPs estate is 120 houses, my estate is 80 and the grass cutting contractors charge less than 3k to cut it every week.
> 
> So I am basing my opinion on what would be a reasonble comparison.


 
There can be vast differences in size depending on location and developer, and type of development.


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## Guest116

markpb said:


> That's my point, it's just a guess - the layout of the estates, the amount of grass areas, the type of work required to maintain any flower beds, etc, all contribute to the cost. Without knowing the OP's estate, it's almost impossible to calculate the cost.


 
Ok, so you are just guessing yourself too? More than likely it is a fairly standard estate that doesn't have acres and acres of green areas, just a guess...


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## Lilly2099

> Do either of you know the size of the OPs estate, do you know the amount of work involved in maintaining it?


 
In answer to this there is at most 3 medium sized green areas in the estate. Half of the estate is made up of townhouses with no greens or front gardens. There are no apts in the estate. The Council maintain paths & roads. In regards to getting involved, myself and my boyfriend and happy to cut the grass in our areas for nothing, there are a couple of other people would also be happy to do this rather than pay the residents association. The(residents association) appear to be a small group of people in my opinion with a slight attitude.


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## jack2009

Lilly2099 said:


> The(residents association) appear to be a small group of people in my opinion with a slight attitude.


 
Its always the same!  I would not pay the money especially since you know not everyone is going to pay!  perhaps the grass cutting or raising money could be done in a more community spirit type way!!!


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## Lilly2099

Jack2009 I completely agree regarding raising the money in some other way rather than the bully boy tactics and tone used in the letter we received! As i said its only 120 house so its a small enough estate and I's sure most people would be happy to raise the money with a fundraiser night or something. I would be happy even to do 'cleanup days' once a month where everyone becomes involved rather than handing out the cash.


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## MaryBe

I firmly believe that we are paying enough tax without paying for the upkeep of estates (which Council are obliged to).  Why do people feel they should take over the Councils job.  That's one of the problems with this country.  We are constantly looking for monies for upkeep of hospitals, estates etc and freeing up Government funds to enable the TD's etc spend spend spend.

When the developers were in full swing and phasing the developments, the planners insisted that the *Developers* maintained the development until it was completely finished.  The Developers didn't want the expense and hence the introduction of *'Management Companies'* (run by the developers).  These developments were supposed to be taken over by the County Councils upon completion of the entire development.  The developers put a clause in the purchase documentation so that purchasers were obliged to contribute towards the upkeep.  Now it practice for the Estate to take over the Management and not the Council.  

I think that purchasing and maintaining one's own property and looking after our family is enough for any couple to deal with.


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## Scotsgirl

Hi Lilly2099,
I would object too, if I received a letter like that demanding money.  It is a lot of money from each resident, especially on top of other rising bills.
Considering a few of your neighbours think the same as you, would you maybe talk to them about your idea of a fundraiser, or even the clean up day (which I think is a great idea).  Perhaps you could drop leaflets into the houses, as I'm sure a lot of other residents are reluctant to pay the money but don't want to say.  The residents association may then back down from their demands.


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## Guest116

You see thats where the problems can start. Any pushback onto the residents associations are generally received with a "how dare they, we are spending our free time to improve the estate" and then the whole thing breaks down.


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## camellia

I think the OP, and her neighbours who are unhappy, should talk to someone on the res assoc committee and ask them why they are attempting collecting so much money. 

Remember the res assoc is made up of other neighbours who presumably have the same demand on their pockets and their time as everyone else. They are almost certainly only trying to keep the estate well maintained. I would think it is highly unlikely they are trying to profit from their neighbours.

Is this the first year they have asked for money? 

Did the OP attend a Res Assoc AGM/Meeting so she could find out what is going on?

The chances are they have based the amount demanded on the assumption that only a % of houses will contribute and are attempting to collect enough to pay whatever the grasscutters are charging.

The only way to know what is going on to to get involved and ask.

But it is much easier to complain from the sidelines.

It would be lovely if the councils did their jobs and used our tax to maintain our estates but until that happens residents have to organise it. If everyone pays up it should not cost more than 50/100 per house in general I would imagine, and the bigger the estate the lower the charge should be.


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## MaryBe

camellia said:


> It would be lovely if the councils did their jobs and used our tax to maintain our estates but until that happens residents have to organise it. .


 

You see my point......why should the Council do anything with these estates when the Residents are doing the job so brilliantly with their own hard earned monies.  As long as the Residents continue the upkeep the Council will not get involved!


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## Butter

I live in a housing estate in Meath and we are in a similiar situation.  
We have a lot of grass areas within the development.  The council will not maintain this and it falls back on residents to pay for the upkeep.  It may not be fair or right that we have to do this, but this is the situation we are in because we bought a house here.  

If we refuse to pay then the grass won't get cut, the shrub beds won't get looked after and the estate will be a complete mess.  I really don't think it can be done on a voluntary basis with some people doing a bit of grass cutting and weeding here and there.

We are in the process of hopefully taking control of our own management company to look after the estate.  It would great if the developer or the council paid for the maintainence but they are not going to do that.  Even when the council take the estate in charge they won't pay for maintainence.

So here's the dilemma - some people in the estate have to become the "local busybodies" and ask (not demand!) for contributions from houses to maintain the area where we live or we end up living in a completely overgrown estate.  What choice do we have?  Either way we'll have to pay - if the government gives local authorities the money to maintain private housing estates then we will have to give them more money in taxes.

€200 is on the steep side but I know that our estate has had quotes for maintainence work that would work at between €100 and €200 per house per year.  There's a big variation in quotes from landscaping companies.  

Instead of immediately refusing to pay - why not get in touch with someone in the Residents Association and ask for a breakdown of the costs and to see the quotes they obtained for the maintainence work.


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## mathepac

MaryBM said:


> I firmly believe that we are paying enough tax without paying for the upkeep of estates (which Council are obliged to) ...


I feel your information in this area may be incomplete.

Management Companies are a legal requirement in multiple-occupancy dwellings (apartment blocks etc.) or in private, gated communities in order to manage the insurance,  maintenance, safety and security of exteriors and/or 'common areas' outside the boundaries of each of the individual residences. They have no role to play and no way of existing outside of these types of development. Management Companies usually employ Managing Agents to do the day-to-day work.

I have yet to hear of a Management Company being legally left in charge of a development which did not consist of multiple-occupancy dwellings or private, gated communities, and where subscriptions to such a Company were not detailed in the purchase contracts for the properties concerned.

Some residents' associations (maybe the one in OP's area) seem to have confused their function with that of a Managing Agent or Management Company, but in general a residents' association has no legal means of either collecting fees or dues or setting 'house rules' for an estate.

There is no doubt that certain councils around the country are falling behind in their 'taking in charge' duties, but the reason for that is not Management Companies (but could very well be Residents' Associations !).


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## Vinnie_cork

Councils are only required to cut the grass something like twice a year.  So saying leave it to the council will mean you will be living with a field like a hay field for your kids to play in. (I don't have kids but don't like the look of unkept greens).

I was on a res association previously for an estate of 80 houses, we asked people for €70 a year. About 80% used to pay, usually rented houses did not contribute (landlords told us F**k off I dont care is grass is never cut). We did not ask tenants as this was felt unfair as they could move anytime and would not gain by having estate looking nice for sale-ability.

Grass cutting was expensive (cut every 2 weeks during summer and 4 outside the heavy growing season). Insurance was another major expense. 

We used to hold meetings twice a year but attendance was always poor. Our work on the committee was completely voluntary and we also contributed the €70 yearly charge.

OP ask for details of where the money is being spent, I'm sure they will have no issue telling you.


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## Mpsox

I live in a fairly well established estate, built in the 70s, doesn't have huge communal green areas as back then, they made the gardens bigger. Hence minimal grass cutting required and mostly done by the council

We pay €50pa into the RA, about 50 houses in the estate and most cntribute. We get an annual statement from them every year and most of the money gets spent on skips, (every year they'll order 2-3 for the estate to use, very handy for a clear out) and things like flower beds and making the estate look nice, a proportion of any surplus is retained annually for emergencies, eg replacing the estate sign after some muppet demolished it with a lorry, any other surplus goes to buy raffle prizes and they simply draw names.

Without knowing the estate, €200 sounds crazy and way OTT.


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## gipimann

mathepac said:


> I have yet to hear of a Management Company being legally left in charge of a development which did not consist of multiple-occupancy dwellings or private, gated communities, and where subscriptions to such a Company were not detailed in the purchase contracts for the properties concerned.


 
The estate I live in (368 houses) has neither multiple-occupancy dwellings nor is it a gated community, but does have a Management Company which owners are obliged to join and subscribe to annually.  The fee goes to the upkeep of the green areas (there are several of various sizes) as the Co Council refuse to take the estate in hand.   My Mgt Co Fee for 2009 is €127, it has risen from €92 in 2005.

In addition, there is a resident's association, which organises twice-yearly estate clean-ups (hiring a road sweeper), replaces vandalised trees in the estate and plants shrubs and flowers at the estate entrance.  The res. association fee is €10, and has been for several years.


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## MaryBe

This might be of interest to some! http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74573


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## AKA

This is one of the reasons I'm thinking that dissolving the managment company would be the wrong path to take, even if the council did take in charge the estate.  I used to think that taking in charge would be the answer to all our problems.  However, without a high percentage of people on board it seems the management company would have to stay.  

The council in Meath won't cut the grass; as far as I'm aware it is not under their remit, after writing to the Dept Local Government and Environment.

The estate looks well, better than any council managed estate.  Even if the council did cut the grass occassionally, it wouldn't be up to the standard we have now.  We'd have to pay someone to top up the cuts and maintenance.  However it is important to have the estate taken in charge in relation to road and pipe maintainence etc.

The residents association could collect the money from all houses without having an expensive agent.  But collecting the money is a thankless job, especially when people won't pay.  The res assoc got 3 quotes on behalf of the management company, and our agent collects the fees and can handle the debtors too.  Quotes will vary significantly - even with local contractors.  It also really depends on the number of units, in smaller estates it could be manageable to do it yourself of if people are in agreement.  

In other estates without management agents, residents agreed as a group to the process and there is over 80% compliance.  The open areas in our estate would be too big to cut the grass ourselves.  Takes the contractor a full day with 2 people to complete one cut with some maintenance.


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## round1

A number of years ago the Residents Association  in the estate where I live stopped 
collecting money for grass cutting as they were fed up working so hard and getting so little support. The weeds and grass grew several feet high around the estate so at the next AGM  I can tell you there was a very large attendance of residents irately demanding to know why the estate wasn't being maintained!


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## AKA

Yes, no one attends the management company agm.  There was a large turnout at the residents association agm where the committee seemed to be mistaken for the management agent.  

The residents were quite verbal - after that experience there is no way I would waste a minute of my time collecting grass cutting fees from 170 houses.  Let the agents do the work or legislation should be standardised so that it become's the council mandate.  I'd rather pay double the management fee not to have to deal with any of it.  

I note that Fingal County Council are now charging residents for grass cutting services.


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## dave28

round1 said:


> A number of years ago the Residents Association  in the estate where I live stopped
> collecting money for grass cutting as they were fed up working so hard and getting so little support. The weeds and grass grew several feet high around the estate so at the next AGM  I can tell you there was a very large attendance of residents irately demanding to know why the estate wasn't being maintained!



This is the way to go ...... let the grass and weeds grow for the summer , then hold an AGM so that anyone who is concerned and democratically elected can decide what to do !!!!

In our case there is no way the Council will look after the green areas, there are a number of households who refuse to contribute so I am fed up trying ... i just want to let it grow to force others to get involved in the decision-making and voluntary slave labour


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## Seonewbie

Where I grew up there was a pretty good residents association and I think they asked for €80 -€100 a year for maintaining the estate. Pensioners where not asked to pay. But as well twice a year there was a clean up the estate day where everyone cut their hedges, grass and picked up litter that may be around the estate. Always thought it was a good idea and meant everyone got to know each other in the estate.


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## richie_irl

Hate to drag up an old thread (well not that old) but lets say Im having a few "issues" with the RA myself.
Theres this old fogey who is basically harrassing myself and my family for the RA fees for the year.Having recently been made redundant I have more important things to spend my money on.
He calls at least 3-4 times a week( oh btw Ive explained my situation to him which I believe was none of his business anyway.) and now hes started trying the guilt trip thing--snide comments about how my kids use the green area as much as the other kids in the are and that they responsible for cutting the green area--yet only last week I saw the council in cutting it,like the numerous times before that aswell--Im getting quite annoyed over this.
Besides what I can only call intimidation I dont see where the money is going--250 houses at 50-70 a pop is a lot of money.

Anyone got any advice on how to stop this or should I just get legal advice??
Thanks


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## Lilly2099

Richie, when my ra called to coleect the money they were demanding I advised I simply could not afford it. They looked at me as if I were mad and put me in a very uncomofortable situation but they did not call again. Having spoke to my neighbours it appears this was the message they were getting as most doors. I would be very concerned over your RA harassing you like this.


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## richie_irl

Lilly2099 said:


> Richie, when my ra called to coleect the money they were demanding I advised I simply could not afford it. They looked at me as if I were mad and put me in a very uncomofortable situation but they did not call again. Having spoke to my neighbours it appears this was the message they were getting as most doors. I would be very concerned over your RA harassing you like this.





Thanks for the reply Lilly.And youre right it has made us feel uncomfortable especially since this bloke lives 2 doors away so its kind of hard to avoid him.

It was just his attitude last night that annoyed me.

His exact words were "Sure your kids use the green area like the other kids whos parents have paid do" which annoyed me greatly.Im usually quite hot-headed and could have very well lost it with him but I bit my tounge and replied "I didnt know that I had to pay for the use of the green area when I moved in here--are you lot going to set up a little kiosk system and charge by the use?"

Its not as if I said I wasnt paying it full stop--I told him I`d give him the fees as soon as I got myself sorted out.But I mean 3-4 calls a week is really just harrassment.


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## liaconn

I suspect, if he's annoying you like this, he's also irritating the other neighbours so I would just ignore him and not let him intimidate you. I think people like him have to learn to understand that many people's financial situations have changed drastically and what might have been meaness a couple of years ago is genuine lack of funds now.


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## Romulan

You have explained your situation so thats it. 
Some people just loose it when they become committee members.

If you can offer a reduced amount or a few bob every now and again, do so.

Unfortunately some people just will not pay and RAs can do nothing but accept it.
But people unable to pay is a fact of life.


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## Doublglaze

Don't be surprised, in the current economic climate, if there is a thug or two running Residents' Associations who are out to line their own pockets.


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## Butter

If Residents Associations collect money they have to account for it and provide accounts and if requested receipts etc to residents of their developments. 
I think it's ridiculous to say that people involved in a Residents Association who volunteer their free time should end up being accused of being a "thug who are out to line their own pockets".


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