# Electric Car Diary



## Slim (19 Feb 2022)

Days 1-3: Collected a year old VW ID.4 this week from the VW dealership. Very detailed and thorough handover but it's difficult to take everything in. Car was charged up to 94% by dealer. After a frustrating 30 minutes on the Aviva app and two calls, transferred the insurance over. It seems the app would not accept '0' as engine size despite assurances from the customer care rep on the phone. Anyway, at 94% charge, range was showing as 330km, far short of the max 500km promoted for the 77kw battery. Assured that the range on screen reflects the previous 100km of driving not actual range left and the cold weather will reduce range. Anyway, drove home, some local trips, totalling some 100km in total and battery charge has dropped to 38%. Charging now on plug in charge so will be very slow.
Applied to SEAI for home charger grant, online, on Tuesday, approval email arrived yesterday. Applied to ELLI,  that's VW associated company which arranges installation of the home charger. Ordered the basic kit, €1,329 installed. Applied Wednesday, phonecall and email yesterday. Looking at approx 3 weeks before installation. Bord Gais is the installer. 
The car is a delight to drive. Smooth and very quick acceleration, have to watch speed limit as it reaches the limit quickly and smoothly.
The adaptive cruise control is amazing. You could literally set it and just steer, it slows down for speed limits, bends and keeps a set distance from the vehicle in front. So far so good. Will update after charging and longer trip Monday.


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## fayf (19 Feb 2022)

“Assured that the range on screen reflects the previous 100km of driving not actual range left”

EV’s constantly recalculate the range left, based on previous kms driven, all, perfectly normal.

“Applied to SEAI for home charger grant, online, on Tuesday, approval email arrived yesterday.”

Once installation certification hardcopy issued by installer, grant claim form completed + picture of car in driveway + chargepoint (up to recently at least), you can only claim the grant by hardcopy, by post, and its a little slow, can take 6 weeks minimum, to receive payment.

Good luck with the EV, you’l never go back !


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## llgon (19 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Anyway, drove home, some local trips, totalling some 100km in total and battery charge has dropped to 38%.



So,based on recent driving, range of battery is 179km. I'd find that worrying. 

Did dealership measure the reduction in capacity of battery since manufacture? If you have not been provided with this figure I would ask for it.

AFAIK with the ID4 you have a warranty that the battery will maintain over 70% capacity for 160,000km or 8 years, whichever is sooner. This should provide some peace of mind.

Surprised that the dealer had car charged to 94% given that Volkswagen's advice is not to charge battery above 80% routinely.  However I'm not sure if other EV manufacturers give this advice


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## Slim (19 Feb 2022)

Thank you all for reading and commenting. However, this is only meant to be an account of the first week or so of EV ownership in a real world, first timer setting. 

I'd rather that the thread didn't go off to the debate on EVs versus ICEs. I've taken the plunge and I want to inform the others who might be considering a change.


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> I'd rather that the thread didn't go off to the debate on EVs versus ICEs. I've taken the plunge and I want to inform the others who might be considering a change.



Guys

This is a very interesting thread. If you want to discuss Slim's experience or ask him questions do so.

If you want to let off steam about EVs generally, do so in another thread. I have deleted 8 posts.

Brendan


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## Slim (20 Feb 2022)

Overnight, plugged in via the 3 pin plug in the garage, from 38% to 82% between 4.20pm and 8.45am. Range is showing 293km on the app. I have capped it at 90% for this charge. The app is great. It can pre-heat the car interior to a selected temperature in the morning and you can start/stop the charging as long as the cable is plugged in.


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## PaddyBloggit (20 Feb 2022)

It will be interesting to compare your charging costs to what filling up at the pump was costing you.

What is your typical mileage/weekly commute like?


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## Thirsty (20 Feb 2022)

@Slim - do you mind my asking what you paid for your EV?


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## Zenith63 (20 Feb 2022)

PaddyBloggit said:


> It will be interesting to compare your charging costs to what filling up at the pump was costing you.
> 
> What is your typical mileage/weekly commute like?


FWIW my Leaf is showing 18kWh/100km average consumption, about a 50/50 mix of 120km/h motorway and suburb driving. I don’t have a night rate meter, so it’s costing me 20c per kWh to charge at home.

That’s the equivalent cost of a petrol car doing 2.1L/100km (112mpg) at current fuel prices of €1.70. On a competitive night rate meter you’d get this down to 1L/100km equivalent.

Not sure if that’s a good way for you to compare or not. The Leaf has really poor efficiency, so the bigger ID4 probably beats my figures.


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## Slim (20 Feb 2022)

Thirsty said:


> @Slim - do you mind my asking what you paid for your EV?


The car was insured on Thursday for €47,950.

Stopped the charging at 11.30. Stands at 89%. Says range is 314km.


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## Slim (20 Feb 2022)

PaddyBloggit said:


> It will be interesting to compare your charging costs to what filling up at the pump was costing you.
> 
> What is your typical mileage/weekly commute like?


Well, prior to Covid, I was doing 500-700 most weeks. That's not going to be happening again so my very comfortable and economical diesel was just sitting outside most of the time. The local runs just not enough for that car. I figured that the trade in value would plunge if I waited another year.


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## Slim (20 Feb 2022)

Zenith63 said:


> FWIW my Leaf is showing 18kWh/100km average consumption, about a 50/50 mix of 120km/h motorway and suburb driving. I don’t have a night rate meter, so it’s costing me 20c per kWh to charge at home.
> 
> That’s the equivalent cost of a petrol car doing 2.1L/100km (112mpg) at current fuel prices of €1.70. On a competitive night rate meter you’d get this down to 1L/100km equivalent.
> 
> Not sure if that’s a good way for you to compare or not. The Leaf has really poor efficiency, so the bigger ID4 probably beats my figures.


Can you calculate the units I have used? 77kw battery charged from 38 to 89%, took 19 hours on plug in charger. How is this calculated? Thanks.


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## Zenith63 (20 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Can you calculate the units I have used? 77kw battery charged from 38 to 89%, took 19 hours on plug in charger. How is this calculated? Thanks.


You added 51% to a 77kWh battery, so about 39kWh. 1kWh tends to cost around €0.20 if you have a regular electricity tariff. So your cost to add that amount was about €7.80.

As discussed on another thread last week, you could try to use the number of hours it took to charge and the speed of the charger, but it won’t charge at a constant rate so this tends to be misleading.


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## Slim (20 Feb 2022)

Ah. I didn't realise it is that straightforward. Thanks. Just under €7 for that top up. Is it cheaper with the 7kw home charger or just faster?


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## losttheplot (20 Feb 2022)

I have a Hyundai Kona almost 3 years now. There's 70,000 km on it. If I take the average consumption of 15-17 kWh/100km, that would work out at between €1,050 - €1,200 fuel cost for 3 years (assuming I've calculated it correctly). That would be at night rate electricity. My actual cost is much lower as I have access to free chargers at work.
So far, servicing has cost about €500, including 2 new tyres.


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## Zenith63 (20 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Ah. I didn't realise it is that straightforward. Thanks. Just under €7 for that top up. Is it cheaper with the 7kw home charger or just faster?


Just faster, same cost.


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## DrBob72 (20 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Ah. I didn't realise it is that straightforward. Thanks. Just under €7 for that top up. Is it cheaper with the 7kw home charger or just faster?


just faster, the cost is per kWh, not the speed of consumption. getting a night meter will help further reduce that cost, we charge over night at 9.5c per kWh making it the cheapest "milage" option


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## fayf (20 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Ah. I didn't realise it is that straightforward. Thanks. Just under €7 for that top up. Is it cheaper with the 7kw home charger or just faster?


Same cost, but nearly 3 times faster, as the 3 pin domestic plug, can only deliver roughly 2.5kw per hour,(versus 7 kwper hour) hence the now common name “granny” charger. The 3 pin plug charging option, is really only for emergencies, or, for people who are waiting for their home charger installation.


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## Blackrock1 (21 Feb 2022)

Slim said:


> Days 1-3: Collected a year old VW ID.4 this week from the VW dealership. Very detailed and thorough handover but it's difficult to take everything in. Car was charged up to 94% by dealer. After a frustrating 30 minutes on the Aviva app and two calls, transferred the insurance over. It seems the app would not accept '0' as engine size despite assurances from the customer care rep on the phone. Anyway, at 94% charge, range was showing as 330km, far short of the max 500km promoted for the 77kw battery. Assured that the range on screen reflects the previous 100km of driving not actual range left and the cold weather will reduce range. Anyway, drove home, some local trips, totalling some 100km in total and battery charge has dropped to 38%. Charging now on plug in charge so will be very slow.
> Applied to SEAI for home charger grant, online, on Tuesday, approval email arrived yesterday. Applied to ELLI,  that's VW associated company which arranges installation of the home charger. Ordered the basic kit, €1,329 installed. Applied Wednesday, phonecall and email yesterday. Looking at approx 3 weeks before installation. Bord Gais is the installer.
> The car is a delight to drive. Smooth and very quick acceleration, have to watch speed limit as it reaches the limit quickly and smoothly.
> The adaptive cruise control is amazing. You could literally set it and just steer, it slows down for speed limits, bends and keeps a set distance from the vehicle in front. So far so good. Will update after charging and longer trip Monday.


once you get the charger in take a look at the best day night tariff you can get, you can then set the charger (or the car) only to charge between 12am and 8pm or 1am and 9 pm whichever it is at the moment so you only pay night rate, will bring the cost of charge down a lot.

Your range wont be 500km, you might see closer to the that on a mild summers day but winter range will be well down on that, youll get used to the range fluctuating between seasons and youll soon know roughly what range you will have regardless of what the 'guess o meter' says.


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## tallpaul (21 Feb 2022)

A very interesting thread. However what strikes me most clearly is the whole issue of 'range anxiety' or should it be 'charge anxiety' in this case is evident from the moment the owner leaves the garage. Call me a luddite, but when I fill my diesel car, I know going to bed at night exactly how much fuel is in the car in the morning and how far it will take me! 

Where is the enjoyment in the car if there is a constant nagging feeling of always worrying how much charge is left in the battery and how far away the next charger is and indeed if it is actually working!


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## Leo (21 Feb 2022)

tallpaul said:


> Where is the enjoyment in the car if there is a constant nagging feeling of always worrying how much charge is left in the battery and how far away the next charger is and indeed if it is actually working!


Not that many people commute more than 330km each day. Few people who are used to EVs suffer range anxiety to any great degree.


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## Blackrock1 (21 Feb 2022)

tallpaul said:


> A very interesting thread. However what strikes me most clearly is the whole issue of 'range anxiety' or should it be 'charge anxiety' in this case is evident from the moment the owner leaves the garage. Call me a luddite, but when I fill my diesel car, I know going to bed at night exactly how much fuel is in the car in the morning and how far it will take me!
> 
> Where is the enjoyment in the car if there is a constant nagging feeling of always worrying how much charge is left in the battery and how far away the next charger is and indeed if it is actually working!


when i charge my ev i know exactly how much 'fuel' is in the car and how far it will take me also. It will be a shorter distance than your diesel and like your diesel the remaining range will fluctuate depending on weather and driving patterns.

But i rarely if ever exceed that range in a day so there isnt anything to be anxious about, range anxiety is something non ev owners fixate with and new owners have for a week or two.


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## Alkers86 (21 Feb 2022)

tallpaul said:


> A very interesting thread. However what strikes me most clearly is the whole issue of 'range anxiety' or should it be 'charge anxiety' in this case is evident from the moment the owner leaves the garage. Call me a luddite, but when I fill my diesel car, I know going to bed at night exactly how much fuel is in the car in the morning and how far it will take me!
> 
> Where is the enjoyment in the car if there is a constant nagging feeling of always worrying how much charge is left in the battery and how far away the next charger is and indeed if it is actually working!


They've only had the car a couple of days. Once they've used the fast charging network a few times and got used to the home charging setup etc, that anxiety will dissapear. People might have the same sort of worries with their first diesel car, being worried they'd put petrol in by accident etc.


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## Slim (21 Feb 2022)

Day 5: After charging overnight Saturday/Sunday, the charge stood at 89% or 337/304km depending on when you looked at the app/dash. Anyway, today was the first medium range test. 3 adults onboard for a round trip of 180km. Main roads, some 50/60/80kmph zones but mainly 100km. The adaptive cruise control, ACC, is amazing, slows you down at speed limits etc. All you really have to do is steer. Not sure how I feel about that but the novelty hasn't worn off yet.
Arrived at destination, range had dropped by the appropriate 90km or so. I was more relaxed after that as my ESB charging card has not arrived yet. Return drive was similar. Sometimes, I had to override the ACC so I could overtake slower traffic but the acceleration is phenomenal. Range now sitting at 124km which is plenty for upcoming local trips. Range anxiety is easing.
@tallpaul: Yes, there is range anxiety until you get used to the capacity of your own car. Much depends on your pattern of travel. Spontaneous driving down the country for work is no longer a feature of my life as I'm semi retired and can plan and charge up for longer trips. So far so good. I love the car!


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## twofor1 (21 Feb 2022)

EV’s are not for me at this time, but definitely in the future.

This thread  is informative and very interesting to hear experiences going down the EV road.

Hope you have hundreds of thousands of good, economical and trouble free kilometres in your new car Slim.


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## banjopotato (21 Feb 2022)

tallpaul said:


> Call me a luddite, but when I fill my diesel car, I know going to bed at night exactly how much fuel is in the car in the morning and how far it will take me!


Really? Does your diesel car put one of these on your phone? 



https://imgur.com/w10MMhm


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## PaddyBloggit (21 Feb 2022)

banjopotato said:


> Really? Does your diesel car put one of these on your phone?



Mine does.


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## mathepac (21 Feb 2022)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Mine does.


As did mine, long before electric cars were a "thing" My iPhone now puts all that on my poverty-spec petrol car via an upgraded Sony head-unit.


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## banjopotato (22 Feb 2022)

Who knew? I’ll wake up less dumb tomorrow.


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## tallpaul (22 Feb 2022)

banjopotato said:


> Really? Does your diesel car put one of these on your phone?
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/w10MMhm


Indeed my diesel car does also! Just because it is an electric car, doesn't mean other types don't have apps also!!!


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## PGF2016 (22 Feb 2022)

@Slim - what other cars did you consider and why did you go with the ID4?


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## David_Dublin (22 Feb 2022)

tallpaul said:


> A very interesting thread. However what strikes me most clearly is the whole issue of 'range anxiety' or should it be 'charge anxiety' in this case is evident from the moment the owner leaves the garage. Call me a luddite, but when I fill my diesel car, I know going to bed at night exactly how much fuel is in the car in the morning and how far it will take me!
> 
> Where is the enjoyment in the car if there is a constant nagging feeling of always worrying how much charge is left in the battery and how far away the next charger is and indeed if it is actually working!


I imagine I would have that _anxiety_ when I first get an electric car, I'd be fairly confident it would dissipate over the first few weeks. A bit like a phone and lots of other devices, we plug them in for the night (or not using them) and they'll always be there when you need them.


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## Blackrock1 (22 Feb 2022)

Another thread that is worth a read, little more on the extreme end of an ev diary!


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## DublinHead54 (22 Feb 2022)

This is a great thread! I have a PHEV, with a rated*** range of 50km, I have been a little disappointed in the drop in range with the colder weather. The electric part of the car is great, the petrol engine not so great. 

Driving electric is such a pleasant experience and it is great to be able to nip around Dublin doing the school run etc whilst fully electric. I am looking forward already to switching to a full electric, I love the look of the ID3/4


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## Savvy (22 Feb 2022)

fayf said:


> Same cost, but nearly 3 times faster, as the 3 pin domestic plug, can only deliver roughly 2.5kw per hour,(versus 7 kwper hour) hence the now common name “granny” charger. *The 3 pin plug charging option, is really only for emergencies, or, for people who are waiting for their home charger installation*.


This made me chuckle. I'm closing in on 4 years four years with my Leaf and still plug it in to an external socket outside! Although I've applied for charger grant now.


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## Slim (22 Feb 2022)

PGF2016 said:


> @Slim - what other cars did you consider and why did you go with the ID4?


Hmmm. I don't like the look of many of the Hyundai or Kia electric offerings. However, I do like the Kia EV6 and, to a lesser extent, the Hyundai Ionic5. However,  Mrs. Slim is a car snob so no chance of a Skoda Enyaq. I was attracted to the 7 year warranty of the EV6 but no test drive available due to shortage of models. The Ford Mustang Mach e would appeal but I think the user screen is awful looking and it's very pricey. So, badge preference plus availability plus familiarity with VW and desire for an SUV style car won the day. ID.3 was good but not large enough to move from 2 cars to one. Delivery dates on new EVs are ridiculous so a year old EV presented an opportunity. I think that's why!


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## fayf (22 Feb 2022)

I test drove a good few, i didn’t like the VW touchscreen, in ID3 & ID4, but thats just me, prefer a non touch screen setup, or even a mixture. I suppose one gets used to it over time. I came very close to buying a new ID3 last year, but went for a 1 year old i3 in the end. Herself, has the bigger car & range- Kia E-Niro.

Youre spot on with the waiting list for new EV’s, it  seems to be getting progressively worse, and there is a very limited selection of used EV’s, of the newer models like ID3,/4, Kia E-Niro,  bar the entry level EV’s like Zoe, & Leaf etc. 

3 year PCP deals, also has a big impact on used availability, so as EV volumes only really shot up, in 2021, most of these, won’t be back on the market until 2024.


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## Slim (8 Mar 2022)

Update: Bord Gais will fit the charger on Thursday. New Vehicle Registration Cert arrived 6 days after I picked up the car. Tax renewal notice shortly thereafter. Range still in the 300km on 80% charge. Pleasure to drive. Switching to night rate/day rate with Electric Ireland. Hoping range will improve with the weather!


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## Slim (10 Mar 2022)

Charger fitted today. Neat job. Took 2 1/2 hrs. Have decided not to fit night rate meter for now. Car is a pleasure to drive. So far so good.


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## Anthony7 (10 Mar 2022)

Extremely interesting tread, I’m going through identical process this week. ID4 purchased and charging with granny until home charger is installed later in the week. I bought new and dealer just happened to have what spec I was looking for in stock. Must try and get that WeConnect ID widget working. As a matter of interest how are you Finnish parking sensors? I find the alerts you to objects so much later than my Tiguan that it’s almost dangerous as we’ve come to reply on. Like you ev6 and ioniq 5 were options and probably better ev’s based on all reviews however didn’t like the looks and think vw will hold value better


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## Slim (11 Mar 2022)

Anthony7 said:


> Extremely interesting tread, I’m going through identical process this week. ID4 purchased and charging with granny until home charger is installed later in the week. I bought new and dealer just happened to have what spec I was looking for in stock. Must try and get that WeConnect ID widget working. As a matter of interest how are you Finnish parking sensors? I find the alerts you to objects so much later than my Tiguan that it’s almost dangerous as we’ve come to reply on. Like you ev6 and ioniq 5 were options and probably better ev’s based on all reviews however didn’t like the looks and think vw will hold value better


Hi Anthony. Good question. I find the parking sensors just 'later' than my mondeo. I'm starting to get used to them and trust them a bit more as I get used to the size of the ID.4. Order to Installation of charger took 3 weeks. Going to be travelling to an airport next week so long trip and will have to charge for the return journey. I've downloaded the Easygo app for a nationwide map. Some chargers are free. ESB app does not have a map!


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## Zenith63 (11 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Going to be travelling to an airport next week so long trip and will have to charge for the return journey. I've downloaded the Easygo app for a nationwide map. Some chargers are free. ESB app does not have a map!


The ESB app definitely has a map, it’s in the Find a Charger section then click Map down the bottom.

I’d recommend using one of the non-network apps like PlugShare to find chargers, saves you having to check 2-3 network apps. The network app is worth a check afterward though as it will tell you in real-time if a charger is broken or in-use.

Not sure what route you’re taking, but my recommendation would be to figure out if there are any locations with multiple chargers and aim for one of those, even if it means stopping earlier than you need to. Much less chance of needing to queue that way. The Ballacolla stop on the Dublin-Cork route is a good example, it’s only 150km down the road so I’m theory too early to stop, but there are 10 Tesla chargers and 3 ESB chargers so you will never end up needing to queue there.


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## Slim (11 Mar 2022)

Cheers. I will explore the ESB app further and the Plugshare app.


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## Anthony7 (11 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Cheers. I will explore the ESB app further and the Plugshare app.


How are you getting on with vw home charger? Only other issue I’m having is with the iOS App. In WeConnectID I cannot change units from miles to km. my wife downloaded and logged in with my account and shows kms no problem for her. Tried deleting etc but no dice


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## Slim (13 Mar 2022)

The home charger is great although the placement, which was dictated by proximity to the main fuseboard, may be a tripping hazard but it's near the back of the house. No issues with the app, it seemed to default to km.


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## Zenith63 (13 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> The home charger is great although the placement, which was dictated by proximity to the main fuseboard, may be a tripping hazard but it's near the back of the house. No issues with the app, it seemed to default to km.


FWIW the electric regs were changed recently to allow EV chargers to be placed near the meter box (by adding a mini fuseboard to the meter box) rather than near the main fuseboard. Too late for you I know, but may be handy to know for others!


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## Slim (23 Mar 2022)

Update: First major trip last weekend. 100 miles to the airport. Was not fully charged when leaving as I had underestimated how long it would take to charge to 100%. Anyway, delightful drive, mostly motorway and parked up at the airport for a few days. Knowing it would need charging to get home, I had sussed out a nearby free charger on the EasyGo app. Found it but the app and charger would not sync. Drove part of the way home, quite concerned, but located an ESB pay charger. Worked first time, fair play ESB, and we grabbed a bite to eat and passed about 90 minutes to give it a decent charge. Headed home but it would be tight. Didn't want to stop again but had a plan in case. As it happened, I limped in the gate at home with 5% left in the battery. Overall, a stressful drive. Lesson learned is that all future trips will require planning around charger locations.


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## fayf (23 Mar 2022)

@Slim, for a 2 hundread mile (320kms)return trip,and mainly motorway driving, starting on full is fairly essential, and would only require a quick 20minute 50k fast charge if at all, on the return leg, in an ID 4 - 77kw. IF, it was full on leaving.
It should be easily possible to do 320 kms, depending on conditions & load, bearing in mind the WLTP is just over 500kms on this vehicle, but motorway driving at 120kph can really drain the battery rapidly. Even dropping by 10kph can make a big difference.

Big lesson here is really, charge to full the night before longer trips, whilst also being aware of charging points, if its needed, on the return leg home


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## Baby boomer (23 Mar 2022)

Zenith63 said:


> ...The Ballacolla stop on the Dublin-Cork route is a good example, it’s only 150km down the road so I’m theory too early to stop, but there are 10 Tesla chargers and 3 ESB chargers so you will never end up needing to queue there.


Until the day that Cork are playing a semifinal in Croke Park and half the county is on the M8 desperately looking to recharge!


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## mathepac (23 Mar 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> Until the day that Cork are playing a semifinal in Croke Park and half the county is on the M8 desperately looking to recharge!


Junior matches don't usually attract huge crowds - unless they have nothing else to watch of course!!


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## Baby boomer (24 Mar 2022)

mathepac said:


> Junior matches don't usually attract huge crowds - unless they have nothing else to watch of course!!


Corkonians will hate you for that!!!


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## Slim (24 Mar 2022)

fayf said:


> @Slim, for a 2 hundread mile (320kms)return trip,and mainly motorway driving, starting on full is fairly essential, and would only require a quick 20minute 50k fast charge if at all, on the return leg, in an ID 4 - 77kw. IF, it was full on leaving.
> It should be easily possible to do 320 kms, depending on conditions & load, bearing in mind the WLTP is just over 500kms on this vehicle, but motorway driving at 120kph can really drain the battery rapidly. Even dropping by 10kph can make a big difference.
> 
> Big lesson here is really, charge to full the night before longer trips, whilst also being aware of charging points, if its needed, on the return leg home


Yes, driving style certainly affects consumption as it did in the diesel. My driving style on motorways in the diesel would be a top speed of 110kph. The installer of the home charger informed me that the VW will only charge at 11kw per hour. As all the publicly available chargers range from 22-50kw, does this mean that it's irrelevant which charger I use?


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## Zenith63 (24 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Yes, driving style certainly affects consumption as it did in the diesel. My driving style on motorways in the diesel would be a top speed of 110kph. The installer of the home charger informed me that the VW will only charge at 11kw per hour. As all the publicly available chargers range from 22-50kw, does this mean that it's irrelevant which charger I use?


Unless you have a three-phase supply at home then the charger there will be limited to 7kW.  When it comes to public chargers you have two broad categories -

Slow chargers - These are basically like your home charger but will do up to 11kW.  You should only use these for longer stays, like going to a meeting, shopping etc.  You don't ever want to use one of these on a long journey, which I think may be where you went wrong.  These will be identified as "Type 2" chargers in the likes of the PlugShare app.
Fast/rapid chargers - These use the larger connector and your car supports charging at 125kW, though many of the older ESB chargers only support 50kW at the moment, Ionity chargers should get you the full 125kW and you should aim for these every time.  As you can imagine at 125kW or even 50kW these chargers will charge your car very quickly and are the only chargers you should use on longer journeys.  It sounds like 10 minutes would have been enough in this case.  They're typically in motorway service stations and will be identified as "CCS" in the likes of the PlugShare app.
As an example of using the fast chargers, I drove from Sneem to North Dublin last week (365km) in my Leaf which has quite a bit less range than your car (250km on the motorway) and is only capable of 50kW charging on fast chargers.  I drove at 120km/h on the motorway, stopped once for 45 mins to grab some food and charged, I arrived home with 50% charge so I probably would have got away with a 15 minutes stop but no way to eat a large taco chips in that kinda time   .

Out of interest what was the charge level of the car when you left home for the journey? Are we talking ‘not fully charged at 95%’ or ‘not fully charged at 50%’? Was it charging all night? If so I’d wonder if there’s an issue with the charger? I had a colleague with the same issue, turned out the installer had set the charger up incorrectly and it was limited to something like 1kW.

Your conclusion is bang on though, a bit of planning is required just to understand what types of chargers to use, where to stop on your journey etc. but it gets much easier once you've done it once or twice.


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## fayf (24 Mar 2022)

The installer, was referring to AC charging, which is the only type of charging available in homes and businesses, 11kw is the AC charging maximum for most EV’s. Most homes have a max AC charging of 7KW, but triple phase,  usually found in industrial premises can do up to 11 KW AC.
some Renault & Mitsubishi EV’s can do 22 AC.
Many of the public charging units, are AC charging often limited to 11KW or 22KW, sometimes even less than 11KW.

DC charging max, varies up to and over 100KW, and is usually what you find on motorways. People often refer to them as fast chargers. Most of the newer EV’s have a DC charging max about 100KW ish, some are more.

Apps like “plugshare” will help identify the charging capability of public chargers in advance of making a journey.

Getting back to your recent airport trip, this interesting report confirms that even driving an ID4 77kw consistently at 130kmph, it should cover more than 330kms, if full on departure.








						Electric cars range at 130km/h
					

German "Auto Bild" did test of electric cars range @ 130 km/h




					www.boards.ie


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## Blackrock1 (24 Mar 2022)

a better route planner is a good website/app and would have been useful in this case, a quick fast charge should have sufficed. but as others noted interested to know what state of charge you left at.


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## Slim (24 Mar 2022)

Interesting comments. The car was at about 80% when we left. I had set the charger a bit late in the morning and underestimated how long it would take to fully charge. I admit to horsing along on the motorway as I was fully confident of a good charge for the return journey.  On the chargers, I will in future look out for the fast chargers. The range at 80% is given as 330km. Weather is improving and seems to be helping with the range. It is a learning process. Next test will be a trip to Dublin and back, coming up soon. I will report back.


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## Blackrock1 (24 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Interesting comments. The car was at about 80% when we left. I had set the charger a bit late in the morning and underestimated how long it would take to fully charge. I admit to horsing along on the motorway as I was fully confident of a good charge for the return journey.  On the chargers, I will in future look out for the fast chargers. The range at 80% is given as 330km. Weather is improving and seems to be helping with the range. It is a learning process. Next test will be a trip to Dublin and back, coming up soon. I will report back.


put your route, car and state of charge into the app i mentioned above and it will direct you to be nearest fast charger on your route if required. generally if you have a large trip ideally you would charge over night the night before.

are you on a night saver rate for cheaper charging?


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## Slim (24 Mar 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> put your route, car and state of charge into the app i mentioned above and it will direct you to be nearest fast charger on your route if required. generally if you have a large trip ideally you would charge over night the night before.
> 
> are you on a night saver rate for cheaper charging?


Thanks. I have 3 apps loaded up to locate chargers plus the car will also locate nearby chargers. I had called Electric Ireland to swap to day/night rate but was advised (not by Electric Ire) to wait a few weeks as all other appliances will incur a much higher unit cost.


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## Blackrock1 (24 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Thanks. I have 3 apps loaded up to locate chargers plus the car will also locate nearby chargers. I had called Electric Ireland to swap to day/night rate but was advised (not by Electric Ire) to wait a few weeks as all other appliances will incur a much higher unit cost.


its reasonably easy mathematical exercise to see if you benefit from the day night rate, but generally with a large batter ev getting charged once or twice a week it makes sense.

ABRP is the best of the route planners, so it plans the route in advances and identifies the best place to charge along the way. Hopefully of some use.


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## fayf (25 Mar 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> its reasonably easy mathematical exercise to see if you benefit from the day night rate, but generally with a large batter ev getting charged once or twice a week it makes sense.
> 
> ABRP is the best of the route planners, so it plans the route in advances and identifies the best place to charge along the way. Hopefully of some use.


On Night rates, agreed, its much more apporpriate for larger battery EV’s, we have two EV’s, the larger battery EV is thankfully 100 % charged at work, the smaller one at home, but only 110kw of charging per month on average, over 9 months charging.This somewhat negates the night rate benefit, as its not enough night rate draw, to justify additional standing charges(often forgotten about), and often higher day rates, on the day/night tarriffs. 
However, we have a heat pump going in this week, which may change that.

So, it really depends on your individual usage, a number crunch, is really essential using your actual usage data over a period of time.


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## tallpaul (25 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> Update: First major trip last weekend. 100 miles to the airport. Was not fully charged when leaving as I had underestimated how long it would take to charge to 100%. Anyway, delightful drive, mostly motorway and parked up at the airport for a few days. Knowing it would need charging to get home, I had sussed out a nearby free charger on the EasyGo app. Found it but the app and charger would not sync. Drove part of the way home, quite concerned, but located an ESB pay charger. Worked first time, fair play ESB, and we grabbed a bite to eat and passed about 90 minutes to give it a decent charge. Headed home but it would be tight. Didn't want to stop again but had a plan in case. As it happened, I limped in the gate at home with 5% left in the battery. Overall, a stressful drive. Lesson learned is that all future trips will require planning around charger locations.


Am I reading correctly that you stopped for ninety minutes for the car to charge on a 160km drive which would have taken c. 90 minutes to do in any type of vehicle, thereby effectively doubling your journey time?? And this after having to faff about with different chargers in different locations coming off and on the motorway?

Sounds like hell to me.


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## fayf (25 Mar 2022)

No, not correct at all,
looks like a 320km roundtrip,(100 miles each way) and user was only at 80 % charge before departure. The full journey could have been done without any charging, if the EV was at 100 % on departure.

User also unfamiliar with fast charge location points, hence, the faffying around, to find one.


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## Blackrock1 (25 Mar 2022)

tallpaul said:


> Am I reading correctly that you stopped for ninety minutes for the car to charge on a 160km drive which would have taken c. 90 minutes to do in any type of vehicle, thereby effectively doubling your journey time?? And this after having to faff about with different chargers in different locations coming off and on the motorway?
> 
> Sounds like hell to me.


I dont think anyone, the OP included, is taking this as a well planned trip. If they were charged fully before leaving, no stop, or if they planned the trip correctly to stop off at a high capacity charger its a 10-15 min stop.


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## Firefly (25 Mar 2022)

I think fair dues to Slim - it would be very easy for someone with a shiny new ID4 to post glowing reviews. It's nice to hear an honest account of owning a new EV...


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## Blackrock1 (25 Mar 2022)

Firefly said:


> I think fair dues to Slim - it would be very easy for someone with a shiny new ID4 to post glowing reviews. It's nice to hear an honest account of owning a new EV...


absolutely, people considering an EV will hopefully be better informed by the poster and some of the responses to the issues they have faced.


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## Slim (25 Mar 2022)

I might re-title this thread as 'Idiot buys an EV!'


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## Cervelo (26 Mar 2022)

Have to say thanks Slim I'm really enjoying this thread and your experiences and the advise from other posters here
We have two cars at the moment an 07 and a 131 so at some stage we're probably gonna have to change one and most probably it will have to be to an EV so its good to hear the good the bad and the ugly of EV ownership compared to ICE
The one thing I'm picking up on is that with EV ownership at this moment in time there needs to be a small mindset change with regard to battery level in that it is better to start each day with a full battery, where as with an ICE car it's not something I would worry about if an unexpected long journey should arise


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## AlbacoreA (30 Mar 2022)

My first car was for commuting. But it was because going cross city in Dublin at the time on public transport was taking up to 2hrs each way. The majority of my driving life has always been in cities.


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## AlbacoreA (30 Mar 2022)

Slim said:


> I might re-title this thread as 'Idiot buys an EV!'


It's a great thread. I think it encourages debate. Which is the whole purpose of a forum.


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## Frank (31 Mar 2022)

Agreed 

Interesting the question raised. I am guessing OP is not an Electrical engineer.
So more informative for most I would say. 

The trip hazard thing is something to note, mix of charging point on the wall and location of the charging on the car. 
Interesting the change to add the separate connection straight from the meter box. 

I had a work day last week 170km to a site where I could not have plugged in then 170 km back. 
So possibly pushing the bounds of the range 
I stopped for 5 mins to fill with diesel, didn't stop for a lunch as I had an option to burst on and get home. 
Admittedly no big deal to stop for a bit of food, but it was nice to have the option not to. 

Again good to see some real  timelines, real ranges on real driving rather than the ideals in a lab. 

The charging at work option is something that could be good. 
Does anyone charging from work have experience
How much are they charging ?
Is it free?
Would that be seen as a BIK?


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## Blackrock1 (31 Mar 2022)

Frank said:


> Agreed
> 
> Interesting the question raised. I am guessing OP is not an Electrical engineer.
> So more informative for most I would say.
> ...


The reality is that a 10 min charge at an ionity fast charger would have added enough range for you to get home if you were borderline on range, so only adding an extra 5 min over your diesel stop.


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## Baby boomer (31 Mar 2022)

Frank said:


> .....
> The charging at work option is something that could be good.
> Does anyone charging from work have experience
> How much are they charging ?
> ...


Friend of mine works for an employer that has installed work chargers as a perk.  They're available to all employees, first come first served, and there's no record of who uses them.  So, to him, it's free and he doesn't pay BIK.  As far as I know, it's specifically excluded from the BIK regime as a policy.

But apparently there's been hints dropped lately that a small charge might be deducted from salaries!


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## Slim (31 Mar 2022)

Update: Decided to charge to 100% this week in preparation for a round trip to Dublin this weekend. Disconnected at 93% and was pleased to see range showing at over 430km. Next morning, it was very frosty and the range showing had dropped below 400km. Looking forward to the long run this weekend. 
PS: definitely not an electrical engineer!


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## johnwilliams (1 Apr 2022)

baby boomer "first come first served, " is this going to cause friction . john plugs in and goes to all day meeting cannot be disturbed or is too  lazy to come back and move car , car left at recharging station , jimmy therefore cannot access charging station and left  with empty battery


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## Slim (1 Apr 2022)

Update: In preparation for tomorrow's big trip,  I set the car to charge to 100%. It's 6° outside at the moment and the car reads a range of 411km. Tomorrow's return trip will be about 480km so a recharge on the return will be required.  I will report back on Monday.


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## Baby boomer (1 Apr 2022)

johnwilliams said:


> baby boomer "first come first served, " is this going to cause friction . john plugs in and goes to all day meeting cannot be disturbed or is too  lazy to come back and move car , car left at recharging station , jimmy therefore cannot access charging station and left  with empty battery


Remarkably, it's actually been friction free.  It's a small employer and everyone knows everyone else and relationships are good.  There are four (I think) charging points, but they're configured in such as way as to be accessible from multiple parking spaces.  The implicit deal is that if people start acting the maggot, the freebie will disappear.


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## DeeKie (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> Overnight, plugged in via the 3 pin plug in the garage, from 38% to 82% between 4.20pm and 8.45am. Range is showing 293km on the app. I have capped it at 90% for this charge. The app is great. It can pre-heat the car interior to a selected temperature in the morning and you can start/stop the charging as long as the cable is plugged in.


I have an ID4. I find it annoying that only one person can use the app. We have two drivers in the house.


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## Zenith63 (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> Update: In preparation for tomorrow's big trip,  I set the car to charge to 100%. It's 6° outside at the moment and the car reads a range of 411km. Tomorrow's return trip will be about 480km so a recharge on the return will be required.  I will report back on Monday.


Which charging location are you planning to stop at?


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## Blackrock1 (2 Apr 2022)

DeeKie said:


> I have an ID4. I find it annoying that only one person can use the app. We have two drivers in the house.


Can you not both have the app with the same logon ? It worked for me with the Audi and Mercedes’ app assume its the same for vw.


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## Blackrock1 (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> Update: In preparation for tomorrow's big trip,  I set the car to charge to 100%. It's 6° outside at the moment and the car reads a range of 411km. Tomorrow's return trip will be about 480km so a recharge on the return will be required.  I will report back on Monday.


Please tell me you put the journey into a better route planner


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## Slim (2 Apr 2022)

This morning, it was cold and the range had dropped to 404km and quickly dropped to 393 after a short trip to town. Back to 100% now and showing 404km.

I will stop at a Circle K for a fast charge tomorrow. 

I haven't set up ABRP as I have 3 apps for the networks and I didn't care for its homepage. 

Tried to set Mrs. S up but to set her up with her own log in(email and password) would have entailed deleting the vehicle from my phone!

Here goes..fingers crossed!


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## Zenith63 (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> I will stop at a Circle K for a fast charge tomorrow.


The only thing I’d say is if at all possible aim for a location with more than one charger. Anywhere with Tesla chargers will mean no chance queuing behind them for access to your ESB charger, anywhere with Ionity means there will be at least 6 bays suitable for your car and you’ll never have to charge, anywhere with multiple ESB/EasyGo chargers would be next best but there are few of them around yet, then worst option is somewhere with a single ESB/EasyGo.

Truck I use if there are only single charger locations is to keep an eye on the ESB eCars app as you head up the road, that way if you see the one you’re aiming for is busy but a slightly closer one is not in-use you can stop a little earlier.

Before anybody gets alarmed, queuing is not that common but it does happen and as there are ways to avoid it you may as well use them! There’s a penalty for staying longer than 45 minutes on a fast charger and fast chargers are significantly more expensive than charging at home. so queues tend to move quickly if you’re unlucky enough to encounter one.


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## Blackrock1 (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> This morning, it was cold and the range had dropped to 404km and quickly dropped to 393 after a short trip to town. Back to 100% now and showing 404km.
> 
> I will stop at a Circle K for a fast charge tomorrow.
> 
> ...


ABRP is more to advise on where to stop to make the journey the quickest so that could mean stopping en route at an IONITY charger rather than on the way back at a different one. It’s a route planner more so than a charge point locator. But seeing as you have made up your mind I won’t recommend it again.


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## Blackrock1 (2 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> This morning, it was cold and the range had dropped to 404km and quickly dropped to 393 after a short trip to town. Back to 100% now and showing 404km.
> 
> I will stop at a Circle K for a fast charge tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Also to set her up with the app you just put the app on her phone and use your login , there isn’t any need for two separate accounts.


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## Slim (3 Apr 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> ABRP is more to advise on where to stop to make the journey the quickest so that could mean stopping en route at an IONITY charger rather than on the way back at a different one. It’s a route planner more so than a charge point locator. But seeing as you have made up your mind I won’t recommend it again.


I do appreciate the recommendation and I will look into it! Thank you.


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## losttheplot (3 Apr 2022)

ABRP is very useful.


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## Slim (3 Apr 2022)

Update: Set off yesterday for the 240km drive to Dublin. I had charged to 100% and the range indicated 441km. Almost immediately on setting off, this dropped to 404km! Arrived in Dublin with just under 200km left. Headed off this morning and arrived at Applegreen Northbound at Lusk with 150km left in range. All 3 chargers available. Tried to start the CCS charger but no go. Another driver arrived and said he often has trouble with it. He gave up as it seemed my car was blocking the chargers, not physically. Rang ESB twice. Second time got a guy who was able to start the charger. 44 mins and an additional 170km added. Cost was €11.01. Arrived at Circle K, Monaghan with just under 200km left. Didn't need a charge but tried to activate the CCS charger but it wouldn't start. Guy charging his Nissan on the adjoining charger said he had tried to start but had to ring. I didn't need it so didn't bother. Not impressed today with ESB! Arrived home with 105km left in range. Overall, a very pleasant driving experience. I will summarise my feelings on the EV very soon. I have much to learn.


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## Baby boomer (3 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> ...Overall, a very pleasant driving experience.


Ok, not trying to be controversial for the sake of it, but I genuinely don't get how you consider this to be "very pleasant."   I have to say, it sounds like an absolute nightmare to me.  Multiple charging points not working, multiple calls to sort it out, 44 minute top-up time. 
And all this to do a simple, basic trip to the nation's capital and back!  On motorways!  Heaven forbid you might need more flexibility or venture more off the beaten track.


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## Zenith63 (4 Apr 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> 44 minute top-up time.


In fairness @Slim only needed a 10-15 minute stop, he chose to charge for longer, probably getting food as most tend to on longer journeys. Also had they stopped at the Ionity chargers (very next exit!) they could have charged at 150kW instead of 50kW and got away with a 5 minute charge, with the added benefit of there being multiple chargers to avoid the risk of having to queue.

As Slim has said a few times though, this is mostly lack of experience.  Better knowledge transfer to new purchasers is clearly required and would go a long way to avoiding these issues.  It’s a little like picking up a rental car in Italy for the first time, there’s a huge amount to get used to and even the basics like knowing whether you should use the benzina or gasolio pumps to fill it are a real challenge, until they’re not.

The faulty charger issues were annoying, though this is very uncommon (I’ve never encountered one) and can be avoided by stopping at locations with more than one charger.  FWIW the Department of Transport published it's Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure Strategy 2022-2025 last week outlining how €100m will be spent to improve this situation in the coming years.  Far too late in my view, but we're getting there at least.


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## Blackrock1 (4 Apr 2022)

Zenith63 said:


> In fairness @Slim only needed a 10-15 minute stop, he chose to charge for longer, probably getting food as most tend to on longer journeys. Also had they stopped at the Ionity chargers (very next exit!) they could have charged at 150kW instead of 50kW and got away with a 5 minute charge, with the added benefit of there being multiple chargers to avoid the risk of having to queue.
> 
> As Slim has said a few times, what this stuff highlights is mostly limited experience, better knowledge transfer to new purchasers would go a long way, as will hearing from Slim in a few months when they’ve worked this stuff out. It’s a little like picking up a rental car in somewhere like Italy for the first time, there’s a huge amount to get used to and even the basics like knowing whether you should use the benzina or gasolio pumps to fill it are a real challenge, until they’re not.
> 
> The faulty charger issues were annoying, though this is very uncommon (I’ve never encountered one) and can be avoided by stopping at locations with more than one charger.


yes agreed, id imagine if the route had to have been planned in ABRP it would have suggested ionity (which would always be my preference) which would have been a 10 min stop max, with 4 chargers available most likely.


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## Slim (4 Apr 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> yes agreed, id imagine if the route had to have been planned in ABRP it would have suggested ionity (which would always be my preference) which would have been a 10 min stop max, with 4 chargers available most likely.


@Blackrock1...I downloaded the ABRP app and it's a different appearance to the Web page I referred to above. I see what you mean and it will be very useful. 
About Ionity, is it not over twice the price of ESB per kW/hr? It's hard to justify if so.


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## Zenith63 (4 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> About Ionity, is it not over twice the price of ESB per kW/hr? It's hard to justify if so.


It is in fairness.  In the case of this journey you only really needed to add a few quid of charge to get you home (with some overhead incase there was an emergency), so the difference might have been €5-10.  But I know the feeling when you're just getting used to this stuff, it's safer to just leave it charging while you're stopped eating anyway.

Again as you get more used to it you'll have more of a sense of what you really need to fill up by and the Ionity chargers might have made sense.  Although I guess you could easily have spun in to see if the 50kW ESB charger was free at Lusk SS, if not then it would not be a big deal to get straight back on the road to the Ionity location.

Glad the trip went better than your airport one


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## Firefly (4 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> About Ionity, is it not over twice the price of ESB per kW/hr? It's hard to justify if so.


I wonder in the future, will charging at stations like these be included in the finance packages for new EVs along with the likes of breakdown assist and servicing that we see currently?


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## Blackrock1 (4 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> @Blackrock1...I downloaded the ABRP app and it's a different appearance to the Web page I referred to above. I see what you mean and it will be very useful.
> About Ionity, is it not over twice the price of ESB per kW/hr? It's hard to justify if so.


It all depends on what you value. If you want to get home as quickly as possible and also goto a location with  multiple chargers, then ionity normally wins out, if you are happy to spend some time grabbing a bite to eat then a slower cheaper esb charger is a good option.


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## Blackrock1 (4 Apr 2022)

Firefly said:


> I wonder in the future, will charging at stations like these be included in the finance packages for new EVs along with the likes of breakdown assist and servicing that we see currently?


they already are to an extent, you can get a cheaper per mw/h rate if you pay a monthly sub, for some new cars you get a free year or two from the monthly sub.

For a lot of people you might only use these expensive chargers 5 or 6 times a year though.


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## Firefly (4 Apr 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> For a lot of people you might only use these expensive chargers 5 or 6 times a year though.


That's why I think they might be "thrown in" with the finance package - it's the same for breakdown assist for example. Maybe 30 hours per year at an Ionity station?


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## jpd (4 Apr 2022)

Usually "things thrown into a package" are available cheaper on their own albeit at a cost of searching for and acquiring them. It all depends on how you value your time


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## peemac (4 Apr 2022)

Great little diary and shows that for most drivers an ev is getting to be a more attractive option for them.

I would like to see a solar panel built into the roof as a "trickle" charger. (it is a feature in some soon to arrive models) That would help with the range anxiety especially if in a remote area and of course the benefit of free trickle charging if parked up whilst playing a game of golf or lounging on the beach


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## Leo (5 Apr 2022)

peemac said:


> I would like to see a solar panel built into the roof as a "trickle" charger. (it is a feature in some soon to arrive models) That would help with the range anxiety especially if in a remote area and of course the benefit of free trickle charging if parked up whilst playing a game of golf or lounging on the beach


I'd say give it a few years until the efficiency of solar panels improves quite a bit. The added weight of the panels and charging equipment would likely result in little to no benefit at the moment. 

Hyundai have advertised an option of full roof panels (205W) on the Ioniq 5 and they say it can add 5-6km range per day in places like the South of France.


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## fayf (5 Apr 2022)

I’d give it a decade, in your example about 1% extra charge per day, and thats probably a very sunny day, the power generated by PV’s is a tiny fraction, of what an EV needs, and there is extremely limited space where one can mount them. There is also likely a major cost/benefit shortfall

I saw something a while back, a concept car that had solar panels built into the roof, back, and doors, so it was doubling the available solar gain area.

A long, long way to go before solar on EV’s, is even remotely viable.


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## PGF2016 (5 Apr 2022)

EV with solar panels: https://lightyear.one/solar


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## peemac (5 Apr 2022)

yes, it's a while away for solar to be good enough to be both a cheap addition and to provide range anxiety back-up and by then a standard battery will probably be at 600km++. 

But there's no requirement for sunlight - solar just needs natural light to create electricity. Sunlight will give it a little extra oomph, but the hours of bright daylight is a better measurement.


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## johnwilliams (15 Apr 2022)

question back in my youth i had a bicycle  with a dynamo on the back wheel producing electricity for my bikes  lamp so wondering if something like this could be done for electric cars , connected to drivetrain not tyres ? charge as you go


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## Slim (15 Apr 2022)

There's no free energy! The dynamo created drag on the wheel. No issue downhill or on the flat but elsewhere, makes it difficult.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Apr 2022)

johnwilliams said:


> question back in my youth i had a bicycle  with a dynamo on the back wheel producing electricity for my bikes  lamp so wondering if something like this could be done for electric cars , connected to drivetrain not tyres ? charge as you go



Battery tech and LEDs make this no longer needed for bikes. EVs are even more advanced.


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## johnwilliams (15 Apr 2022)

thanks slim/ albacore 
thinking out loud maybe a mini ram air turbine where the engine used to be  or not (probably wont work )


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## AlbacoreA (15 Apr 2022)

Tech stuff isn't always intuitive. Often its about working the numbers and seeing what the data tells you. Often its counter intuitive.

Often it requires a paradigm shift in our behavior to use it effectively.


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## Leo (19 Apr 2022)

johnwilliams said:


> thinking out loud maybe a mini ram air turbine where the engine used to be or not (probably wont work )


Just as Slim was saying above, any mechanism like that will cost you more energy than it produces as it can't exceed 100% efficiency and in reality will fall some distance short with losses meaning it will cost you more energy than it produces. 

EV manufacturers give a lot of consideration to reducing drag so as to reduce the amount of energy to propel the car. Adding any form of turbine will mean an increase in drag.


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## Alkers86 (19 Apr 2022)

johnwilliams said:


> question back in my youth i had a bicycle  with a dynamo on the back wheel producing electricity for my bikes  lamp so wondering if something like this could be done for electric cars , connected to drivetrain not tyres ? charge as you go


EVs already recharge the battery when the brakes are applied, this is effectively the same thing.


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## Slim (20 Apr 2022)

Final update: It's been 2 months now since we bought the ID.4. We love the car. It's a pleasure to drive but is it perfect? No, of course not! So, here's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly:
Good
Very comfortable to drive.
Adaptive Cruise control is amazing 
Acceleration is phenomenal 
Spacious cabin and boot.
Bad
Armrests on the front seats feel a bit cheap. 
Infotainment buttons do not light up at night so hard to adjust settings.
Constant lane assist instructions are irritating.
Ugly
Well, nothing really. However, the overwhelming factor in the discussion of EVs are economy and convenience, i.e. Range and cost of fuel. Certainly, more range would be desirable but, with planning, longer journeys will be manageable. We're never in that much of a hurry these days. Cost of fuel is developing, I suppose. It's cheaper per km than petrol or diesel. The Charging Network needs much investment for more fast chargers - We're not all whizzing past motoway service stations every day. Finally, cost of ownership remains to be proven. Trade in values as newer, better models come onto the market, may be weaker than thought. 

I will leave it at that. I have managed to charge up commercially without much trouble, at last but it's never far from my mind. No regrets!


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## Baby boomer (20 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> Final update: It's been 2 months now since we bought the ID.4. We love the car. It's a pleasure to drive but is it perfect? No, of course not! So, here's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly:
> Good
> Very comfortable to drive.
> Adaptive Cruise control is amazing
> ...


A very honest and balanced appraisal.  Well done!


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## PGF2016 (20 Apr 2022)

Slim said:


> Final update: It's been 2 months now since we bought the ID.4. We love the car. It's a pleasure to drive but is it perfect? No, of course not! So, here's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly:
> Good
> Very comfortable to drive.
> Adaptive Cruise control is amazing
> ...


Slim - if you had the same choice again would you stick with EV or return to ICE? And if you stuck with EV would you go with the same model again?


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## Savvy (20 Apr 2022)

I moved to an electric car in 2018. It was the government incentive for 0% BIK that ultimately made me go for it.
I bought a top spec Leaf and I've loved it. Few of our journeys have been long , in particular because of Covid. But I've never had a problem with a charger (other than queuing for 10-15 mins). 
In the early years I used to public slow charge it as it was free so my running costs were very low but since I now work remove 60% of the time and my commutes are 25km round trip its perfect.
I still haven't put a proper home charging solution in as I don't currently need it but I just got the SEAI sign off for the grant for it so I might just go ahead and have it done.


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## Savvy (20 Apr 2022)

I'm currently considering changing car and that's not because I need to but because I would like to pick up a newer toy!
Even with the BIK benefit going over the next couple of years it has not stopped me from looking almost exclusively for a new EV.


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## Slim (20 Apr 2022)

PGF2016 said:


> Slim - if you had the same choice again would you stick with EV or return to ICE? And if you stuck with EV would you go with the same model again?


I wouldn't go back but I might have waited one more year for the new models to hit the market. That, of course, would have diminished the trade in value of my diesel, so swings and roundabouts! I would be very interested in the Kia EV6 but am very pleased with the VW.


----------



## Firefly (20 Apr 2022)

Thanks Slim, a great report. Happy motoring


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## banjopotato (20 Apr 2022)

DeeKie said:


> I have an ID4. I find it annoying that only one person can use the app. We have two drivers in the house.


That capability (in both the car and the app) is coming in version 3.0 of the software. As for when that will be available... It is on the MY22.5 cars, I believe.


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## Anthony7 (20 Apr 2022)

Would be similar to slim in the fact that I’m 2 months into my ID4 journey. Came from a well spec’d allspace. 

The rear seat space is still amazing me. Especially with 3 young kids that all need belting up.

I would add the parking sensors to the bad section. They are so late activating you would already be too late to prevent hitting something. Also the app is terrible, vw app for ice car was much better. Could monitor previous driving data, location etc

Pre-heating is great though. 

I do find that even with very careful driving in the 12-15 degree range I’d rarely achieve better that 19kw per 100km. Meaning 400km range is closer to the mark. But summer is coming so let’s see. 

I also find the lane assist much more aggressive than my Tiguan. 

Looks wise I would take the r-line Tiguan all day long but the ID4 is just a smarter choice. And I don’t for a moment regret it especially with free charging at work. Even the very odd time I charge at home I have 9c per kw night rate. So empty to full for 6/7 euro. I would however have no issue looking around at what’s out there in a years or 2 years time. But would have to be EV again  Audi Etron Gt ))))))


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## Blackrock1 (21 Apr 2022)

banjopotato said:


> That capability (in both the car and the app) is coming in version 3.0 of the software. As for when that will be available... It is on the MY22.5 cars, I believe.


Or use the same login on two different phones, I’m not quite sure what the benefit in having two separate logins for the app would be (based on my experience of the Audi version of the same thing )


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## huskerdu (21 Apr 2022)

I've been following this with interest. I bought a Hyundai Ioniq 5 two months ago.  It was close between that and the ID.4. 
My previous car was 14 year old Toyota, so I was going to be impressed by any new car. 

The driving is so easy, the accelaration is impressive, the space in the back is amazing. 
My only complaint is that the ioniq 5 doesnt have a wiper on the rear window which is odd. 

For my mileage and driving pattern, the electric suits me. I can charge at night on v cheap electricity. I know long journeys will involve more advance planning than before, but I very rarely go beyond the 400km range, so Im prepared for that.


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## Slim (22 Apr 2022)

Anthony7 said:


> I would add the parking sensors to the bad section. They are so late activating you would already be too late to prevent hitting something.


LOL! Agreed. I reversed into the kerb at the ESB charge point last week. Thought I'd demolished it!


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## galway_blow_in (22 Apr 2022)

i ordered a new EV in January , originally told an April delivery , now its September


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## huskerdu (22 Apr 2022)

galway_blow_in said:


> i ordered a new EV in January , originally told an April delivery , now its September


Which brand?


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## galway_blow_in (22 Apr 2022)

Savvy said:


> I'm currently considering changing car and that's not because I need to but because I would like to pick up a newer toy!
> Even with the BIK benefit going over the next couple of years it has not stopped me from looking almost exclusively for a new EV.


buy a Hyundai Ioniq 5 ( circa 50 K for a nice spec )

If money is no obstacle , a Jaguar I pace


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## galway_blow_in (22 Apr 2022)

huskerdu said:


> Which brand?


MG , probably the cheapest option out there but I really liked everything about it and for 35 K top spec and PCP at 2.9% , great deal

Il buy a Tesla when Im richer


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## Savvy (22 Apr 2022)

galway_blow_in said:


> buy a Hyundai Ioniq 5 ( circa 50 K for a nice spec )
> 
> If money is no obstacle , a Jaguar I pace


It was the EV6 sibling or Polestar2 that I was most interested in. Personally ,the overall Ioniq 5 styling doesn't appeal to me.


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## Retyred (22 Apr 2022)

Buy EV6 all day long.Amazing spec and range.For those nervous a plug in hybrid makes a good toe in the water.Something not mentioned is to use B roads if not in a hurry.It makes a more interesting drive and regen will get you much further while avoiding tolls and boring motorways


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## galway_blow_in (22 Apr 2022)

Savvy said:


> It was the EV6 sibling or Polestar2 that I was most interested in. Personally ,the overall Ioniq 5 styling doesn't appeal to me.


the Ioniq is divisive in terms of opinion of the design , personally i love it but my wife would not allow us buy it , she hates the look of it that much


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## galway_blow_in (22 Apr 2022)

Retyred said:


> Buy EV6 all day long.Amazing spec and range.For those nervous a plug in hybrid makes a good toe in the water.Something not mentioned is to use B roads if not in a hurry.It makes a more interesting drive and regen will get you much further while avoiding tolls and boring motorways


hybrids are completely old hat , caught between two stools , I would not under any circumstances buy a hybrid , very very few people will struggle with range with the offerings on sale now in the EV market


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## johnwilliams (22 Apr 2022)

just seen a Australian company has just printed solar cells and intend to power a tesla with them ,.not sure if they intend to stick them to car or just keep them in back yard as charging station ?, lost the newsfeed on it


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## PaddyBloggit (22 Apr 2022)

johnwilliams said:


> lost the newsfeed on it



=> https://www.reuters.com/business/au...km-trip-with-printed-solar-panels-2022-04-20/


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## Alkers86 (25 Apr 2022)

galway_blow_in said:


> hybrids are completely old hat , caught between two stools , I would not under any circumstances buy a hybrid , very very few people will struggle with range with the offerings on sale now in the EV market


Plug in hybrids suit some people down to the ground, these blanket statements about them are pure codswallop. Hybrids and PHEVs are not the same either.


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## galway_blow_in (26 Apr 2022)

Alkers86 said:


> Plug in hybrids suit some people down to the ground, these blanket statements about them are pure codswallop. Hybrids and PHEVs are not the same either.



They will become obsolete eventually, ok for short urban driving but if doing motorway trips ,you switch to petrol engine 

EV should be fine for vast majority way things are going


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## AlbacoreA (26 Apr 2022)

ICE and hybrids will just be a cheaper option in terms of up front costs. 

Also there no point chasing fuel saving and other cost saving if the depreciation exceeds the saving. (assuming the current shortage isn't long term).


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## Alkers86 (27 Apr 2022)

galway_blow_in said:


> They will become obsolete eventually, ok for short urban driving but if doing motorway trips ,you switch to petrol engine
> 
> EV should be fine for vast majority way things are going


Which makes a lot of sense for a lot of people, particularly of it's a one car household - you get all the functionality of a small range EV and a petrol hybrid in one vehicle.

My wife drives a PHEV which covers her 20km each way daily commute fully on battery so we do not use any petrol at all other than when we do a longer trip down the country to attend weddings or visit relatives a few times a year. We've often managed over 2,000km on one tank of petrol, which is small (35L).

The additional cost for us to buy a BEV with sufficient range to accomodate these infrequent longer trips would far outweigh the limited petrol spend we have currently. We would have a 400km+ range, which we hardly ever use and is a waste of money and resources.

If we bought a BEV with a smaller battery, we would have to navigate the uncertanty and insufficiency of the public charger network, which is the last thing you want to be doing on your way to a wedding for example and we'll gladly pay for petrol in this instance (which isn't a massive increase over some of the rapid charger prices from IONITY etc).

Also, not all PHEVs switch to petrol when travelling motorway speeds or under acceleration - admittedly some do, but not all.


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## galway_blow_in (27 Apr 2022)

Alkers86 said:


> Which makes a lot of sense for a lot of people, particularly of it's a one car household - you get all the functionality of a small range EV and a petrol hybrid in one vehicle.
> 
> My wife drives a PHEV which covers her 20km each way daily commute fully on battery so we do not use any petrol at all other than when we do a longer trip down the country to attend weddings or visit relatives a few times a year. We've often managed over 2,000km on one tank of petrol, which is small (35L).
> 
> ...



I'm referring to buyers who currently drive petrol or diesel cars ,there are now full EV options as cheap as a hybrid and range isn't an issue either


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## AlbacoreA (27 Apr 2022)

Ironically if you can afford a new expensive car you probably don't need the savings anyway. You can probably have two cars each suited to a different purpose.


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## Slim (30 May 2022)

Minor update: The car is still great. No real issues, ride is a bit firm.
However, recently got an email from Bord Gais that there is a balance of €240 for installation of a load Management device because we have electric showers!
SEAI grant was paid a week ago, €600.


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## Slim (7 Jun 2022)

Update: Charged the car up to 100% last night in advance of a longish trip today. Range showed at 506km this morning. So, the weather and ambient temperature really affects the potential range.


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## Slim (14 Jun 2022)

On a medium length trip. I notice that one of the chargers offered 150kw charging. I had already plugged in to the 50kw. 
Would the 150kw charge the ID.4 faster or is the ID.4 limited as to how fast it will charge?


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## Zenith63 (14 Jun 2022)

Slim said:


> On a medium length trip. I notice that one of the chargers offered 150kw charging. I had already plugged in to the 50kw.
> Would the 150kw charge the ID.4 faster or is the ID.4 limited as to how fast it will charge?


It supports 125kW charging, so yes will be much faster on the other charger. Note that other charger has a slightly higher price.


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## Slim (14 Jun 2022)

Many thanks. That's good to know!


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## Zenith63 (15 Jun 2022)

Slim said:


> Many thanks. That's good to know!


FWIW all Ionity chargers will charge at your cars’ top speed and Tesla are in the process of allowing non-Tesla cars use their chargers as well, which again work at your cars’ max charging speed.


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## Blackrock1 (15 Jun 2022)

Slim said:


> Update: Charged the car up to 100% last night in advance of a longish trip today. Range showed at 506km this morning. So, the weather and ambient temperature really affects the potential range.


yes summer range is much better and much less volatile! ionity chargers are the way to go if it suits your trip, most charge sessions are 20 min or less such is the speed they can charge at.


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## Slim (15 Jun 2022)

@Blackrock1 : but Ionity are twice the price approx!


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## Blackrock1 (15 Jun 2022)

Slim said:


> @Blackrock1 : but Ionity are twice the price approx!


45c for ESB v 79c,

depends on how often you need to use it and how you value your time....


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## Peanuts (15 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> 45c for ESB v 79c,
> 
> depends on how often you need to use it and how you value your time....


What does this work out as in total for a typical charge?


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## Leo (15 Jun 2022)

Peanuts said:


> What does this work out as in total for a typical charge?


Ionity site says 71c per kWh here for the pay as you go option, 46.1c for ESB, so that works out around €44 versus €29 for an 80% charge of a 77kWh battery, circa 400km range per Slims recent experience.


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## Blackrock1 (15 Jun 2022)

Peanuts said:


> What does this work out as in total for a typical charge?


sorry Leo is correct Ionity is a little cheaper in ireland at 71c, whats a typical charge? depends on whether you are half way through a long trip and need a full refill to get there or you are on the way home and need a top up to get there.


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## Peanuts (15 Jun 2022)

Leo said:


> Ionity site says 71c per kWh here for the pay as you go option, 46.1c for ESB, so that works out around €44 versus €29 for an 80% charge of a 77kWh battery, circa 400km range per Slims recent experience.


Thanks Leo, not as  cheap as I thought.  €44 wouldn't be much less than a small diesel. I presume at home charging is much cheaper.


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## huskerdu (15 Jun 2022)

Peanuts said:


> Thanks Leo, not as  cheap as I thought.  €44 wouldn't be much less than a small diesel. I presume at home charging is much cheaper.


Much cheaper. 

If you charge durign the day, yoiu should be on a rate of around 20-25c . If you have a day/night rate or a smart meter,  and charge at night, you could be looking at <10c, depending on your plan


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## Blackrock1 (15 Jun 2022)

Peanuts said:


> Thanks Leo, not as  cheap as I thought.  €44 wouldn't be much less than a small diesel. I presume at home charging is much cheaper.


Most people charge at night (and if they have any sense at a night rate). My night rate is 9.89 incl vat, if i charge from nearly empty id be putting circa 60 KWH into at at a rate of 9.89 for KWH so under 6 euro. We are urban dwellers so normally charge once a week, twice if we have a longish trip that week. Use ionity around a half dozen times a year max.


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## Slim (16 Jun 2022)

Quick question please: I'm heading off for a couple of weeks. It's not that I think that someone would sneak around the back of our house and use our charger but if I flick the switch off at the 'fuse box, is that any harm?


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## Zenith63 (16 Jun 2022)

Slim said:


> Quick question please: I'm heading off for a couple of weeks. It's not that I think that someone would sneak around the back of our house and use our charger but if I flick the switch off at the 'fuse box, is that any harm?


No harm done, but I really wouldn’t bother.


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## banjopotato (18 Jun 2022)

Zenith63 said:


> FWIW all Ionity chargers will charge at your cars’ top speed and Tesla are in the process of allowing non-Tesla cars use their chargers as well, which again work at your cars’ max charging speed.


That's a bit incomplete. DC charge "speed" varies quite a bit and changes during a single charging session depending on a number of variables (current state of charge on the battery, battery temperature are the two main ones). You really only get the car's maximum charging rate at the beginning of a charging session if the state of charge is very low (below 10%) and the batteries are warm. And the charging rate will decrease as the car "fills up." After 80% charge it will slow considerably.

Best to think of the car's top charging speed as the peak figure but not a figure sustainable for a whole charging session.


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## Blackrock1 (18 Jun 2022)

banjopotato said:


> That's a bit incomplete. DC charge "speed" varies quite a bit and changes during a single charging session depending on a number of variables (current state of charge on the battery, battery temperature are the two main ones). You really only get the car's maximum charging rate at the beginning of a charging session if the state of charge is very low (below 10%) and the batteries are warm. And the charging rate will decrease as the car "fills up." After 80% charge it will slow considerably.
> 
> Best to think of the car's top charging speed as the peak figure but not a figure sustainable for a whole charging session.


Depends on the car my etron gives pretty consistent speeds from low to 85 /90 percent.


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## Slim (15 Jul 2022)

Update: car has lost the infotainment screen and driver information screen as in both are blank. Transmission selection is still visible. Rang VW dealer whose advice was to leave it for an hour, ie 'switch it off and on again'. Tried this, no change. Rang emergency VW breakdown number which actually calls the AA. As promised AA van arrived within the hour. AA guy sat in the car, held the infotainment on/off button down for 10/15 seconds and, hey presto!, all back to normal. 

Most peculiar! Going to get it checked by VW!


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## llgon (15 Jul 2022)

Perhaps software system in car was updating, should have requested your permission but once it's underway everything pretty much goes blank.


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## Slim (16 Jul 2022)

llgon said:


> Perhaps software system in car was updating, should have requested your permission but once it's underway everything pretty much goes blank.


You may have something there. On Thursday, VW dealership rang to arrange a software update. Later that day, a message appeared on screen but couldn't read it as the car was moving. Forgot about it as I thought it was something to do with the booked update. Ya lives and learns!


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## Leo (18 Jul 2022)

Slim said:


> You may have something there. On Thursday, VW dealership rang to arrange a software update. Later that day, a message appeared on screen but couldn't read it as the car was moving. Forgot about it as I thought it was something to do with the booked update. Ya lives and learns!


VW have an online tool to check for recalls or OTA update availability. perhaps that might confirm if yours was recently updated. You should also be able to see what version yours is currently running via the system directly.


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## Frank (18 Jul 2022)

Can you tap and pay in all the Irish chargers or is it all subscriptions and apps?


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## Zenith63 (19 Jul 2022)

Frank said:


> Can you tap and pay in all the Irish chargers or is it all subscriptions and apps?


You can tap your ESB card to pay, but I guess that’s not what you mean. All the fast chargers here require some sort of subscription yes, there are no credit card readers on them.


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## Slim (19 Jul 2022)

Thanks Leo. The website did not recognise the VIN for my ID4!


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## Leo (20 Jul 2022)

Slim said:


> Thanks Leo. The website did not recognise the VIN for my ID4!


Try this link.


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## Slim (21 Jul 2022)

Leo said:


> Try this link.


Thanks Leo. That requires a log in or registration. Would my id connect log in work?


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## Leo (22 Jul 2022)

Slim said:


> Thanks Leo. That requires a log in or registration. Would my id connect log in work?


Not sure to be honest, I don't have a VW.


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## Firefly (22 Jul 2022)

Leo said:


> Not sure to be honest, I don't have a VW.



Pffh. That's lousey support Leo


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## Slim (23 Jul 2022)

Firefly said:


> Pffh. That's lousey support Leo


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## Frank (26 Sep 2022)

OK so took the plunge Niro EV coming next month 

Have been advised to get on to easygo.ie has anyone used it. 

2 electricians have advised that the grant can end up more expensive because of the hoops to jump through 
House built in the 70's 80 AMP fuse incomer smart meter.
Fuse board modern MCB so should be ok 

I see a lot of Zappi chargers around so thinking that but happy to take advice on 7kw charger.


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## Firefly (26 Sep 2022)

Frank said:


> 2 electricians have advised that the grant can end up more expensive because of the hoops to jump through


Or maybe they're looking for a cash job


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## Zenith63 (26 Sep 2022)

Frank said:


> OK so took the plunge Niro EV coming next month
> 
> Have been advised to get on to easygo.ie has anyone used it.
> 
> ...


A charger is little more than a high powered external socket from an electrician's point of view, be careful of being talked into it being something especially complicated.  What can add complexity is if you have other heavy loads like electric showers, because the charger may need to reduce charge when the shower runs, or if your house is not up to current spec (missing earth rod, old fuseboard etc), but you want the electrician to fix these things properly whether using the grant or not.  As @Firely said I'd guess they are looking for a cash job or just cannot be bothered filling in the paperwork (which really is not onerous!).

In-terms of the charger itself, again keep in-mind the charger is fundamentally a big outdoor socket.  So you can choose something basic like a Rolec WallPod or Wallbox which might cost you €4-500 (without installation).  Where the likes of the Zappi comes in is if you want something more intelligent, for example you want the charger to back off the power when an electric shower is running, or only charge when your solar panels are generating excess - a Zappi might cost you closer to €1k.  If you don't need those fancy features and don't think you will in the next 5-10 years, save yourself the money and go for a basic unit which will provide exactly the same charge to your car.


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## Frank (26 Sep 2022)

Thanks both cash job could be the reason alright.

I get the outdoor socket bit too. 
I did wonder would an out door 32A do just as well and get a suitable charger.

Fair point on the features. 
No elec shower or other big load so should be good there. 
Solar panels maybe an option, money tree will be fairly tapped out though after the car arrives. 

Got a sparks coming Thursday so a bit of time to scratch my head.


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## Leo (27 Sep 2022)

Firefly said:


> Or maybe they're looking for a cash job


That or they haven't been approved for SEAI work. Perhaps not happy to risk the SEAI coming out to inspect the quality of their work. 

The forms can't be that complicated!


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## huskerdu (27 Sep 2022)

The paperwork to get the €600 grant is 30 min max, for the customer, if even that . The form that the installer completes isnt that  complicated.

I paid 1200 for a mid range wallbox charger, fully installed and I got the €600 grant. Of course the installer gotr a healthy profit out of me, but I wont believe anyone who said that they could provide a quality service for less than €600 to me (even as a cash job).

I understrand that you want to avoid buying an overly expensive charger that you dont need, but think about what you are likely to need for the next 5 years.
Make sure you have the ability to set a timer to control the charger, You may move to a day/night meter or smart meter and will want to set the charger to switch on and off at the correct time at night,


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## Alkers86 (27 Sep 2022)

Leo said:


> That or they haven't been approved for SEAI work. Perhaps not happy to risk the SEAI coming out to inspect the quality of their work.
> 
> The forms can't be that complicated!


There is no seai registration requirement for charger installs.
The hoops to jump through are minimal vs what should be done in any case. I would avoid anyone reluctant to do above board


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## Leo (28 Sep 2022)

Alkers86 said:


> There is no seai registration requirement for charger installs.
> The hoops to jump through are minimal vs what should be done in any case. I would avoid anyone reluctant to do above board


Thanks for that, I had incorrectly assumed that it was registered installers only like many of the home energy grants.


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## losttheplot (28 Sep 2022)

The only requirement is that they are RECI registered. If they aren't they shouldn't be doing it anyway.


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## Frank (18 Oct 2022)

Applied for the charger grant 2 weeks ago, no word yet.

How long does it take, to hear back?

Also 

any recommendations on the best EV rate 
Have a smart meter, not on a night rate or smart rate mind as the kwh rates look v expensive.
Tried Bonkers and the options are poor enough.

Still on a day rate only 30.34 c/kwh with 10% discount 
Guessing this is going up soon :-(


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## Frank (18 Oct 2022)

Any word on the toll discount ?
Looks like it will run out end of year :-( 

_Low Emissions Vehicle Toll Incentive_ (_LEVTI_)


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## Leo (18 Oct 2022)

Frank said:


> any recommendations on the best EV rate
> Have a smart meter, not on a night rate or smart rate mind as the kwh rates look v expensive.


Will all depend on how much you use the car. You might be better with a regular Day/Night rate unless your usage at the peak hours is relatively low.


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## Frank (18 Oct 2022)

Leo said:


> Will all depend on how much you use the car. You might be better with a regular Day/Night rate unless your usage at the peak hours is relatively low.


Yeah 

I think try to charge at work when I can, free at the mo, but only one charger

I may consider solar too to flatten the day rate a bit

Must water and feed the money tree again.


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## arbitron (18 Oct 2022)

Frank said:


> Applied for the charger grant 2 weeks ago, no word yet.
> 
> How long does it take, to hear back?


They are processed in batches on a cycle. Ours took about 6 weeks.


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## Blackrock1 (18 Oct 2022)

Frank said:


> Applied for the charger grant 2 weeks ago, no word yet.
> 
> How long does it take, to hear back?
> 
> ...


grant is 6-8 weeks

best rate tends to be day night and charge at night but you cant get a regular day night on a smart meter.


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## Mousehelp (18 Oct 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> grant is 6-8 weeks
> 
> best rate tends to be day night and charge at night but you cant get a regular day night on a smart meter.



I already have a smart meter but not on a smart plan. Do I have to get a day/night meter? I have solar Panels So cheaper Night Tate markes Sense but also Thought I needed the smart Meter For The solar Panels? Thank you.


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## Blackrock1 (18 Oct 2022)

Mousehelp said:


> I already have a smart meter but not on a smart plan. Do I have to get a day/night meter? I have solar Panels So cheaper Night Tate markes Sense but also Thought I needed the smart Meter For The solar Panels? Thank you.


to get a day night plan at the moment you need a day night meter, i dont know about solar panels sorry. There are people on boards.ie that are knowledgeable on the subject.


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## fayf (18 Oct 2022)

I don’t have solar panels, so others can better advise on that part, i do know that those solar users with a battery, often stay on the day/night rate meters, as they can use the much lower night rate, to charge the battery overnight, and then use the battery, to feed the house during the day, when Panels not generating enough, therefore avoiding those higher day time rates.(completely avoiding day rates, in some cases)

I got a day/night meter installed last May, as we have 2 EV’s and a heat pump, i switched mid contract with Electric Ireland, directly after the last Late August price increase. Moved to  Energia on September 5th, who had a “fixed” rate(including vat) of :
day rate of 29.80 cent,
night rate of 8.6 cent
Its fixed for 12months.

It all depends on your mix of day and night usage, everyone is different, but we consistently vary between about 55% and 60 % night rate, so the overall average rate now, is under 20c(incl vat), which is significantly less that that most recent EI price increase.(well worth the €50 exit fee) We would only use washing machine, dryer and dishwasher on night rates, and all hot water is heated via heat pump on night rates also. Some behavioural and habit changes are needed,  to best use the night rate.

Energia, have increased those rates a few times since, so was lucky to get in, at those rates.

For me, i ran the numbers on the smart meters, and they were horrendously bad value for my particular situation, and noticed they did offer very low rates in the middle of the night, but its very restrictive as it is limited to 2 to 3 hours per night, which means, you won’t be able to fully charge an EV in one charging session. The night meter rate is for a 9 hour duration, summer 12 to 9am, winter 11pm to 8am, every day of the year, and is perfect for EV charging, as it will deliver up to 63kw in one single charging session


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## Leo (19 Oct 2022)

Mousehelp said:


> I have solar Panels So cheaper Night Tate markes Sense but also Thought I needed the smart Meter For The solar Panels?


You need a smart meter if you want to be paid for the excess energy you send to the grid.


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## Mousehelp (19 Oct 2022)

Leo said:


> You need a smart meter if you want to be paid for the excess energy you send to the grid.


Thanks Leo. So I won’t be able to avail
Of day/night rates on a non smart plan if I am selling back to the grid?


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## Frank (8 Nov 2022)

Mousehelp said:


> Thanks Leo. So I won’t be able to avail
> Of day/night rates on a non smart plan if I am selling back to the grid?


The smart meter thing has been very poor 
From my investigation Smart meter plans are more expensive 
The fact you can't see data unless signed up to a smart plan is poor. 

If one has a smart meter then the info is available on whether Solar export is part of the mix.

To my mind it should be possible to be on a standard rate / a day night rate and still be paid for micro generation.


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## Itchy (8 Nov 2022)

You need a smart meter to be paid but may not have to be on a "smart plan". For example, there is no mention of this requirement in Bord Gais's T&Cs, though you have to sign up for a "microgen export plan", whatever that is.


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## Mousehelp (10 Nov 2022)

Yes, that’s my understanding too. Many thanks.


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