# State Pension (UK) for those who worked in the UK



## Leper (7 Jan 2016)

I am not sure of my ground here so any sound advice would be appreciated.  My former UK neighbour informed me that the Conservative government have stated that the UK will no longer pay state pensions to those who worked there and subsequently left the UK. Apparently, Irish people who worked in the UK in the 60's and 70's had favourable treatment above other immigrants there.  This favourable treatment is about to or has ended. 

Now this is where it gets interesting:- I have been informed that the UK pension can kick in at one's 60th birthday, but there is a date where applications for the UK state pension expires. And even future beneficiaries must lodge their application now. All applications after the date even for those reaching 60 in many years time will be null and void.


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## Gerry Canning (7 Jan 2016)

My understanding is that if anyone has contributed to UK old age pension whilst working in Uk ,will as of right, under their contributions,  be entitled to draw down UK pension, I believe that UK pension used to be 60 for females but is now 65 for both male and female.

It is similar to a UK citizen working for say 12 years in Ireland , if he retires to UK he can still get his Ire pension for the years contributed in Ire.

I can,t see Mr Cameron getting away with (stealing) pension contributions , then again our buckos did that on private pension funds under austerity !


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## thedaddyman (7 Jan 2016)

there is a new state pension coming in with different rules

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/overview


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## Gerry Canning (7 Jan 2016)

thanks Daddyman,

From reading the (new) rules, it means that after 10 years contributions a partial pension is paid , less than 10 = nil.
So at 10 years you get circa £42 per week.


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## moneybox (7 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> I am not sure of my ground here so any sound advice would be appreciated.  My former UK neighbour informed me that the Conservative government have stated that the UK will no longer pay state pensions to those who worked there and subsequently left the UK. Apparently, Irish people who worked in the UK in the 60's and 70's had favourable treatment above other immigrants there.  This favourable treatment is about to or has ended.
> 
> Now this is where it gets interesting:- I have been informed that the UK pension can kick in at one's 60th birthday, but there is a date where applications for the UK state pension expires. And even future beneficiaries must lodge their application now. All applications after the date even for those reaching 60 in many years time will be null and void.



Hi Leper

Did your former UK neighbour hear this down at his local?


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## Leper (7 Jan 2016)

No Moneybox.  For anybody who worked in the UK in the 70's and are not yet 60 I understand the current Tory government is lifting the ladder on what was special treatment for Irish people who work or worked there and returned to Ireland.  The Tory government is even thinking of cutting pensions of British people living abroad too.  This is quite serious for those Irish involved as they could be under the impression that when they reach 60 years there will be a British lumpsum and weekly British pension waiting for them.

I hear that at whatever age Irish people who worked in the UK are now at that they should immediately claim their OAP entitlements for when they reach 60.

I thought that there might be one or two people on this forum who give good financial advice and would have knowledge of what I am saying. I hasten to add that I have nothing to gain on the subject.  But, I know several people who worked in the UK (not all labourers) and I feel they could be doing themselves a disfavour by not claiming now.

I contacted Citizens Advice earlier today and was advised that there is some substance in what I said above.  He wasn't sure of his ground either and he was under the impression that the date for claiming expired early in 2015. The plot thickens and there is too much at stake for those involved to ignore.


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## moneybox (7 Jan 2016)

> I hear that at whatever age Irish people who worked in the UK are now at that they should immediately claim their OAP entitlements for when they reach 60.



Leper  I am sorry but your post makes no sense at all. Do you mean this:     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ernment-thinks-theyre-dead.html#disqus_thread

 Britain pays the state pension to those entitled to it worldwide, they have reciprocal agreements in place with citizens of EEC countries, Switzerland and Gibraltar to pay the annual increase every year.



> The Tory government is even thinking of cutting pensions of British people living abroad too.



At the moment countries who don't have a reciprocal agreement with Britain such as Canada and Australia,NewZealand and South Africia do not get an annual rise and their pensions have been frozen since they first started claiming them. This has resulted in people who are now in their nineties receiving a paltry pension of around £20 per week while expats living in countries like Spain or Portugal get £110. The new Labour party leader is on a mission to change this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...eres-hope-for-those-with-frozen-payments.html



> This is quite serious for those Irish involved as they could be under the impression that when they reach 60 years there will be a British lump sum and weekly British pension waiting for them.



The UK state pension does not pay a lump sum and they no longer pay the pension at 60.  New far reaching changes to the state pension are coming in  April 2016, it will see a flat rate pension of circa £155  per week payable at age 65. The new State Pension will be based on a person's  National Insurance record alone. To receive the maximum pension, one will need 35 years NI record, previously it was 30  years NI record.  There is also an option of buying back up to six years and also options to continue to make NI payments if one moves abroad.   There will be an end to the State's second pension and also an end to pension credit which used to be paid at aged 60.  Most of the opposition to the changes is due to the ending of the state's second pension, however,most people contracted out during the 1980's and those contributions were directed into a private pension companies so really people are not losing out.


Leper, there are possible hundreds of thousands of British expats living in places  such as Spain, France and Cyprus, can you imagine what would happen if their pension payments were cut.....they be all returning to the UK and the strain that would bring to the country in relation to housing,  health services etc would be unthinkable.

 I still think you spinning another one of your yarns though


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## Leper (8 Jan 2016)

1. I read the Telegraph piece.  It is irrelevant; I'm talking about the special retirement status given to Irish people who worked in the UK in the late 1960's and 1970's.  I hope I am making sense.

2. I have no issue with Brits who live elsewhere and whatever they are entitled to.  They have their own issues and some look with envy on what favourable terms are given to former immigrants.

3. There is a lump sum involved and there is a pension involved (of those there is no doubt).  But, I hear the rules governing the issue are about to be (or have been) changed.  Many Irish people are involved.  Many of our nurses received training and worked in the UK back then when we had real recessions and not like the doddle of the current recession we are apparently emerging from.

4. I promise I am not spinning "one" here.  The subject is too important.

I know you (Moneybox) are trying to help and so am I because I bet some former residents of the UK in the 60's and 70's are looking in.


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## moneybox (8 Jan 2016)

The majority of building workers/labourers who worked in Britain during the '60's and 70's did so on the 'lump', I am sure any of the auld boys looking in on this website would agree, hardly any of them were registered to work in the UK and subbies working for the likes of Murphy and McAlpine took them on a daily rate, no deduction ever taken for tax or national insurance.  Many of them took on multiple names and went from job to job, cashing their cheques in the multitude of Irish bars on a Friday evening. They never paid tax or national insurance and most of those who stayed in Britain ended up on the means tested pension credit by the time they came to 60 years of age. Those who  returned to Ireland couldnt claim for a UK pension as they werent even registered there in the first place.

So how special pension provisions along with a lump sum was made for this particular group of people is beyond me.


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## Leper (8 Jan 2016)

I rang the Dept of Health and Social Security (UK) earlier today and I spoke to a Call Centre jockey who gave me a sympathetic ear.  She had come across what I was saying on a few occasions but she was unsure of her ground.  I laid the problem with her and she is to get somebody to contact me.  I will inform anybody looking in here of the finding.

Moneybox unsympathetically pointed out the plight of the Irish labourer in the UK in the 1960's and into the 1970's. What he said is true in many cases.  I was one such labourer and even worked on the lump. I was below the radar and do not qualify for any pension in the UK.  However, there were people who worked all above board during that time and might be entitled to a UK State Pension.  Let's not confine this to labourers.  Nurses, clerks, salespeople, electricians, fitters, mechanics were sought from Ireland and many went. I emigrated with my cousin and took up residence in Luton Bedfordshire (not exactly a scenic town). My cousin still works in the UK.

Just to reiterate:- I am are not talking about what Moneybox referred to as "this particular group of people" - I'm talking about people who legitimately worked paying their taxes etc.


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## moneybox (8 Jan 2016)

Leper surely Irish people who worked legitimately in the UK during the 60's and 70' or any other decade for that matter would automatically apply for their UK pension once they come to retirement age in Ireland?

I am not being unsympathetic pointing out the experiences of the unfortunate Irish during that era, it was horrible for them.  Many of them left close knit rural communities, not forgetting some of it was forced emigration, they experienced dislocation and isolation when they did arrive in London and other British cities. I have spoken to elderly Irish here who worked as far back as the 40's and fifties still barely out of their early teens. They spoke of being heralded into the back of trucks in the early mornings and being taken to work on the motorways without any shelter from the extreme cold or pouring rain.  Many lived lonely lives renting rooms in boarding houses and would go to the pub in the evenings for a bit of company and eventually became addicted to alcohol and homelessness. There were nurses yes, and they were well liked in Britain. I know the labourers were just one group in the UK during those decades but there is no doubt they made up the majority along with the countless misfortunes  who left the industrial schools and the Madeleine laundries, the latter mainly going into the service industries. And the awful thing about all of this hardship experienced by the Irish in Britain was that it was mainly done by their own.

 I agree with you the young ones going through this current recession have no idea how hard it was for those previous generations, who by the way kept Ireland afloat during those tough economic times by sending what little remittance they had back to  support their families in Ireland.  Ireland was a poor and  church ridden country during those times.

  I am gone way off track here but I have never honestly met anyone who actually got the special pension you are talking about so I await to hear your reply from the department .


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## Black Sheep (8 Jan 2016)

If the UK cut the entitlement of Irish who worked in the UK to claim their UK pensions is it likely than the Irish welfare system will retaliate.
When the pre'53 pension was introduced in Ireland many years ago SW expected 3,000 applications from the UK. Within a short time they had 33,000 applications as this was widely advertised among the Irish clubs in the UK. 

I have relatives on both sides of the pond- Irish now living in the UK who are in receipt of Irish pensions as well as their UK pensions and Irish people living in Ireland and in receipt of pensions from both countries


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## Leper (8 Jan 2016)

Moneybox said "Leper surely Irish people who worked legitimately in the UK during the 60's and 70' or any other decade for that matter would automatically apply for their UK pension once they come to retirement age in Ireland?" That is the question I am asking; I think Moneybox and I are now on the same page, at last!

For those looking in and perhaps know somebody who worked in the UK and returned to Ireland later this is the only issue. From the vibes I am receiving it might be too late to wait until retirement age to apply.  The UK is going through an unsettling period regarding non-UK nationals and several issues pertaining.  The Irish have or had a special treatment which did not obtain for non-nationals from other countries. It appears the Conservative government has or is about to lift the ladder from everybody including the "special" Irish who have not continued to live in the UK.

I am only asking a question and I am surprised that the answer is not forthcoming.  I would have thought that a Forum such as this would have experienced professional Financial Advisors as Posters who are experienced in dealing with people retiring or about to retire and their financial queries.  Many Irish people worked in the UK for some reason or other and I thought what I have been asking was a run-of-the-mill question. But, apparently not.


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## moneybox (9 Jan 2016)

The British government are considering phasing out class 2 National Insurance contributions.   


http://www.ukbudget.com/2015-measures/class-2-national-insurance-contributions-abolished.aspx


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## Jim2007 (9 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> My former UK neighbour informed me that the Conservative government have stated that the UK will no longer pay state pensions to those who worked there and subsequently left the UK. .................  And even future beneficiaries must lodge their application now. All applications after the date even for those reaching 60 in many years time will be null and void.



EU directives still trump UK law and consequently they could not do this.  The UK contributions of an EU/EEA citizen must be taken into account in calculating the pension due to a person on retirement.  In practical terms this means that the UK government ends up paying a full or partial state pension.


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## Jim2007 (9 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> 1. I read the Telegraph piece.  It is irrelevant; I'm talking about the special retirement status given to Irish people who worked in the UK in the late 1960's and 1970's.  I hope I am making sense.



Not really unless those Irish citizens were receiving more favorable treatment than UK citizens in similar circumstances, which I doubt!  Until such time as the UK leaves the EU (if they do) any attempt to deal with Irish citizens differently to UK citizens is illegal and would be shot down by the courts, even if someone in a call center tells you differently.


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## Leper (9 Jan 2016)

Jim, the UK would not be breaking laws regarding the special arrangements for Irish people now living in Ireland who had worked in the UK back in the 1970's.  Irish people would be treated just like other non UK people. Still we have nobody coming on here who are retirement pension advice experts.


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## summersday (9 Jan 2016)

I'd be interested to hear what they say to you when they phone back from England. I worked in England in the 80's and am expecting this to be part of my pension on retirement!  At the time we were given some sort of an option to take a lumps sum there and then or leave it'till retirement which I did.  Or perhaps what you're talking about only applies to people before this time period?


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## Gerry Canning (11 Jan 2016)

Leper,


Anyone who contributed to UK state pension via their working taxes is entitled by that contribution to receive that UK state pension. Should they retire to Ireland ,their pension will still be paid in the same amount as though residing in UK.
It is a pro-rata pension eg if you contributed 10 years you get less than someone who contributed 20 years.

summersday,
I am fairly sure you need to have at least 10 years credited contributions to get the minimum circs £42 per week.
You can buy in (extra) years to get to the 10 years.(I did that)
Be careful, because without 10 years you may get nought.

General,
I reckon Mr Cameron will huff and puff but can see no way he will be able to ride rough shod over international agreements on reciprocation etc.


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## Marc (11 Jan 2016)

I covered this only recently in this post

http://askaboutmoney.com/threads/ar...pt-of-a-uk-state-pension.196288/#post-1449765

There is a window of opportunity for those already in receipt of their UK State Pension to top it up


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## Leper (11 Jan 2016)

Hi Marc, Thanks for your post and previous posts but yours is concerned with people who were born after 1953 only (as per the link). But, the thread is interesting for anybody who has not yet retired or reached the age of 60. There is confusion about the subject (sorry to say this for the umpteenth time).  I think Gerry Canning's post is along the lines of Marc's too.  I know both of you and earlier posters want to be helpful, so do I.

Just to reiterate, the Irish government of a few years ago approached the UK government regarding Irish people who worked in the UK during the 1960's and 1970's (we're not talking about the 80's or later).  Favourable terms were agreed in which some (if not all) of the Irish who worked in the UK and subsequently returned to Ireland would have entitlement to a UK state pension. I am informed these terms did not exist for all non UK nationals in the same situation.  This was a special arrangement for Irish people.

The Dept of Health and Social Security (UK) wrote to all Irish nationals at their last known address who might qualify.  Most of these letters were never delivered to the addressees as they had left the UK.  A window was held open until last March (2015) in which affected Irish people could claim Old Age and Retirement Pensions from the UK.  The "ladder" has since been pulled up since, but the DHSS will look on future applicants on a case by case basis. Probably all the new applicants will be in their 60's now and if your parent(s) or anybody you know worked in the UK back then who are not in receipt of a UK state pension, should immediately claim.


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## moneybox (11 Jan 2016)

Have you a link for the above Leper?


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## moneybox (11 Jan 2016)

I wonder if its the Graduated Retirement Benefit you are referring to although it's not specifically for the Irish.  http://www.rights4seniors.net/content/other-state-pension-payments

I have searched and search and can't find no reference anywhere to the statements you are making above.


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## Leper (11 Jan 2016)

moneybox said:


> Have you a link for the above Leper?


Sorry I don't have a link.


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## moneybox (30 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> Hi Marc, Thanks for your post and previous posts but yours is concerned with people who were born after 1953 only (as per the link). But, the thread is interesting for anybody who has not yet retired or reached the age of 60. There is confusion about the subject (sorry to say this for the umpteenth time).  I think Gerry Canning's post is along the lines of Marc's too.  I know both of you and earlier posters want to be helpful, so do I.
> 
> Just to reiterate, the Irish government of a few years ago approached the UK government regarding Irish people who worked in the UK during the 1960's and 1970's (we're not talking about the 80's or later).  Favourable terms were agreed in which some (if not all) of the Irish who worked in the UK and subsequently returned to Ireland would have entitlement to a UK state pension. I am informed these terms did not exist for all non UK nationals in the same situation.  This was a special arrangement for Irish people.
> 
> The Dept of Health and Social Security (UK) wrote to all Irish nationals at their last known address who might qualify.  Most of these letters were never delivered to the addressees as they had left the UK.  A window was held open until last March (2015) in which affected Irish people could claim Old Age and Retirement Pensions from the UK.  The "ladder" has since been pulled up since, but the DHSS will look on future applicants on a case by case basis. Probably all the new applicants will be in their 60's now and if your parent(s) or anybody you know worked in the UK back then who are not in receipt of a UK state pension, should immediately claim.



Leper - Have you heard back from the relevant Department to back up these claims you made??


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## Marc (31 Jan 2016)

.


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## Leper (31 Jan 2016)

moneybox said:


> Leper - Have you heard back from the relevant Department to back up these claims you made??


Yes, and the situations is per my post of 11th January - sorry for not amplifying. I should have been more mindful when posting and people who worked in the Uk from the 1980's are not affected..  It was the people who worked in the UK during the 1960's and 1970's only who were obliged to claim by March 2015 for "more beneficial treatment."


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## moneybox (31 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> Yes, and the situations is per my post of 11th January - sorry for not amplifying. I should have been more mindful when posting and people who worked in the Uk from the 1980's are not affected..  It was the people who worked in the UK during the 1960's and 1970's only who were obliged to claim by March 2015 for "more beneficial treatment."


 
Thanks for that, as the information can't be verified through appropriate links, it has to be taken as heresay until proven otherwise.


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## Fisherman (8 Feb 2016)

Popped in here rather than start a new thread......
I worked in the UK for the first 20 years of my working life and am entitled to a partial UK state pension ( verified by uk Pensions dept.).
I will be entitled to claim the UK pension when I'm 65. However, as I have been working in Ireland since leaving the UK,  I am told I must make my claim from the Irish pension's dept.    As I wont be entitled to an Irish state pension until I'm 66, how do I go about claiming my UK entitlement from Ireland at age 65.


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## Gerry Canning (8 Feb 2016)

Fisherman ,
You can make your claim directly to Uk , 
. this has Nothing directly to do with ROI dept.
If in doubt check www.hmrc.gov.uk on what to do.. Follow their instructions.

Moneybox,
I worked in UK in 1970,s , I will get small uk pension for years worked .
From reading UK new rules , the CATCH is number of years worked/credited in UK.
Unless you have a minimum of 10 years worked you are NOT under the  new rules entitled to UK pension (as of right).

If in DOUBT write to hmrc pensions Newcastle to ensure you have 10 years +.
There is still opportunity to (buy) years to get over the 10.

If anyone private messages me , I will mail them what I have if it helps.


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## Fisherman (9 Feb 2016)

Gerry, I contacted UK pensions. Situation is....I can only claim pension in one EEA country ... They told me to contact Irish pension dept in Sligo.
Contacted Sligo and they said they will send me an appropriate form to complete and return to them.  As I understand it, I will get the UK payment at age 65 and on reaching 66 will then get a full Irish state pension.


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## moneybox (9 Feb 2016)

Fisherman said:


> Gerry, I contacted UK pensions. Situation is....I can only claim pension in one EEA country ... They told me to contact Irish pension dept in Sligo.
> Contacted Sligo and they said they will send me an appropriate form to complete and return to them.  As I understand it, I will get the UK payment at age 65 and on reaching 66 will then get a full Irish state pension.


 
That is correct you have to go through Sligo to get your english pension if you are living in Ireland


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## Gerry Canning (15 Feb 2016)

Found an informative site on (new) UK old age pensions  .

Google .

How much state pension will I get ?Which.co.uk


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## moneybox (12 Apr 2016)

Another very interesting link 
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
 Not sure if it will work in Ireland but anyone interested in getting their UK state pension statement can phone  +44 (0)191 218 3600. 
Also now might be a good time to check and see if one is eligible to pay eith class 2 or class 3 NI contributions for any missing years. Class 2 are cheaper however, the government will be abolishing them in 2017 so people need to act quickly to avail of the cheaper rates. https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions. 



Lots of people who contracted out of the State's second pension during the 70's 80's and 90's are very disappointed with the new state pension rates.  Although the NI rebates were paid into a private pension, the returns of many of these products are dismal to say the least. People who did contract out are losing an average of £1 for every year  but its very difficult to work out exactly how much as they use a complex calculating system.


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