# Private or Public Road?



## Happy Girl (9 Oct 2008)

Can anybody tell me if the roads within a private housing estate not yet taken in charge by the local Council are categorised as either PUBLIC or PRIVATE roads. If they are PRIVATE what legal rights do the residents have or where might I find this information out (other than a solicitor).


----------



## McCrack (9 Oct 2008)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=93974

Your Q isnt clear either. What exactly do you mean by 'legal rights'?

I'm also not sure whether you mean private as in a private estate under the control of a mgmt co. or a private housing estate (as opposed to a public authority housing estate).


----------



## Happy Girl (10 Oct 2008)

McCrack said:


> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=93974
> 
> Your Q isnt clear either. What exactly do you mean by 'legal rights'?
> 
> I'm also not sure whether you mean private as in a private estate under the control of a mgmt co. or a private housing estate (as opposed to a public authority housing estate).


 
Sorry bout that. Talking about a private housing estate of 40 houses currently under the ownership of the developer as it has not yet been taken in charge by the local council. By legal rights I mean for example can we the residents ask people  (non residents) who are parking within the estate on a daily basis not to do so, can we ask learner drivers & schools of motoring (and indeed the Driver Testing Section) not to be using our estate for practising driving manoeuvres, can we ask people who bring their dogs in to poo on our green at night not to do so?


----------



## McCrack (10 Oct 2008)

Ok. A lot of what you are asking is discussed in the link I posted.

I'd say that you can certainly ask those people but I doubt you would get very far. Essentially you cannot as an individual or association limit access to motor vehicles to your estate or people wanting to walk their dogs in your estate. You as a private citizen cannot issue fines to people who break road traffic rules or fine under the Litter Act for people who let their dog crap on the ground and dont clean it up. These are matters for litter wardens/Gardai.

If there is no parking restrictions in place by the local authority, the car isnt causing an obstruction and is legally taxed I cant see what you or indeed any public offical can do. I understand it can be a pain in the ass especially in the housing estates on the Luas line in Dublin but thats the situation.


----------



## Yorrick (10 Oct 2008)

public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;  Road Traffic Act 1961.

If your estate was a gated complex it would not meet above criteria.


----------



## McCrack (12 Oct 2008)

Thats not strictly true. Just because a development is gated or indeed private does not mean road traffic legislation cannot be enforced. For example the Gardai can still arrest and prosecute a person for say drink driving or driving without insurance within a private housing estate gate or no gate.
Similiarly the above offences can be prosecuted in say a pub car-park or indeed a private car park...both being privately owned but the public has access to.

Essentially what I'm saying is that a gated development is treated as a public place for the purposes of the legislation


----------



## bee(nice) (12 Oct 2008)

Happy Girl said:


> Can anybody tell me if the roads within a private housing estate not yet taken in charge by the local Council are categorised as either PUBLIC or PRIVATE roads. If they are PRIVATE what legal rights do the residents have or where might I find this information out (other than a solicitor).


 
There is adifferance between private road and public road in criminal law and civil law. What is the reason for you queery.


----------



## ramble (22 Oct 2008)

If the roads are not taken in charge they are private, the owner can exclude persons if they wish.  All houseowners their tenants/invitees etc have specific rights to use the roads etc, others do not.  Road traffic law will still apply but the owner of the road could, for example, set up a clamping system or put a barrier on the entrance that only those with rights have keys for.  In this case the developer is the owner and so the person with the control.


----------



## Romulan (22 Oct 2008)

We had similar problems in our estate.  Our understanding was that while the estate was private, the road was public.

Organise a residents association.  Purchase and put up some parking/dog signs.

Talk nicely to your local council engineer/county councillor and they may be able to organise some yellow lines although probably too cold to do it now.  Councillors have some discretionary budget powers.

Get the local Guard to ticket any car parked near bends, parked dangerously etc.  

We found putting A4 leaflets on each car on a regular basis also worked.  We mentioned clamping in the leaflet and it seemed to work.


----------



## mayomum (8 Jul 2009)

You need to find that out for yourself. 

I am a barrister but there are several ways that someone can successfully challenge that. Even if you put up 'no parking' signs, that won't mean you will have the right to get a car ticketed or towed away by the guards. The owner of the car can still recoupe the cost off you, based on one or two issues.


----------



## mayomum (8 Jul 2009)

ramble said:


> If the roads are not taken in charge they are private, the owner can exclude persons if they wish.  All houseowners their tenants/invitees etc have specific rights to use the roads etc, others do not.  Road traffic law will still apply but the owner of the road could, for example, set up a clamping system or put a barrier on the entrance that only those with rights have keys for.  In this case the developer is the owner and so the person with the control.



No they can't, there are ways around that.


----------



## Round Tuit (30 Oct 2009)

I live in a private estate, the main rd into our and another 2 estates has apparently not yet been taken over by the council. We're next door to a train station and people like to park on the main road. The problem is that they are parking on blind bends and directly opposite our access roads. They are forcing traffic onto the wrong side of the road on bends and at junctions. I know that it's illegal to park causing an obstruction, within a certain distance of a junction and definitely opposite a junction. To that end, we don't seem to be getting anywhere requesting double yellow lines (our Board of Mgmt and our Managing Agents) but, as it's a "public place" within the definition of the road traffic act, can we contact the Gardai and request they ticket offenders? 
I'd just like to check this is ok here before I put it to the management. Thanks.


----------

