# Activ8 solar panels



## Lak (27 Aug 2011)

We have just had a salesman around regarding the installation of solar panels, we were quoted €8000 for 5sq mtr of flat plate (turn key service)
Not only seems alot of money but I was not overly impressed with the salesman, seemed to rely on scare tactics regarding spiralling energy costs and even the possibility of contracting Legionaires disease with our current system.
My limited understanding was that evacuated tube performed better than flat plate in Ireland, but according to our salesman not so as the maintenance of tube is excessive over time.
One thread on AAM did not paint a great picture of this company, I just wondered had any others had dealings with them or indeed purchased solar panels from them. any insight or advice very welcome.

Thankyou.


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## Shane007 (27 Aug 2011)

Buyer beware! Any company that uses lies and pressure to achieve sales, walk away from them. Legionaires cannot survive above 55C, therefore by heating your water within your cylinder to temperatures above this will automatically kill legionaires. This is why cylinder thermostats should be set to minimum 60C. Where legionaires is more likely to occur is within a shower head, where temperatures are normaly lower and shower heads break water into a mist. This is easier for us to breath in the legionaires. Solar cannot kill legionaires at the shower head and normal heating systems heat water within the cylinder to 60C or above. You should not install solar on the basis that is is safer and €8,000 is a monstrous amount!

Evacuated tubes overall perform better than flat plate collectors. They both perform fairly equally in summer, but have different performances in winter and in shoulder seasons.

Evacuated tubes have their absorbers surrounded by a vacuum, therefore very little heat loss and also ambient temperatures do not cool the absorbers. Flat plate collectors have no vacuum. Therefore in cold temperatures, but sunny days, evacuated tubes will absorb the sun's radiant heat without being cooled by the surrounding low temperatures.

Flat plate collectors also lose some efficiency from solar radiation being reflected off the glass as it is flat. The sun is a moving target being higher in the sky in summer and lower in winter. Radiation from the sun is reflected when is not at ideal angles and therefore not all is absorbed by the absorber. Evacuated tubes loose much less from reflection as they are round and can absorb from a much greater range of angles.

Also with heat pipe evacuated tubes, the water within the heat pipe itself is within a vacuum. Water under normal atmospheric pressure boils as we know at 100C. In a vacuum, the boiling point is lowered, depending on the strength of the vacuum, to on average 15C. Therefore, for heat to be transferred from the absorber to the heat transfer fluid heating the coil in the cylinder, only 15C has to be achieved. This, of course, does not happen with direct flow tubes as the heat transfer fluid (glycol) is pumped through the absorber itself and is not contained within a vacuum.


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## Slim (27 Aug 2011)

Youhttp://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=152036 probably saw this thread...I was very unimpressed with their tactics. Overall it seems to me cost of solar does not justify installation. Slim


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## hastalavista (27 Aug 2011)

Shane007 said:


> Buyer beware! Any company that uses lies and pressure to achieve sales, walk away from them. Legionaires cannot survive above 55C, therefore by heating your water within your cylinder to temperatures above this will automatically kill legionaires. This is why cylinder thermostats should be set to minimum 60C. Where legionaires is more likely to occur is within a shower head, where temperatures are normaly lower and shower heads break water into a mist. This is easier for us to breath in the legionaires. Solar cannot kill legionaires at the shower head and normal heating systems heat water within the cylinder to 60C or above. You should not install solar on the basis that is is safer and €8,000 is a monstrous amount!
> 
> Evacuated tubes overall perform better than flat plate collectors. They both perform fairly equally in summer, but have different performances in winter and in shoulder seasons.
> 
> ...



This is a fine post, one of the best I have seen in a while.

I have a small query about the sentence underlined.
If the temp in the cylinder is > than 15 degrees then what heat gets transferred.

In terms of energy transfer, I know from my mountaineering days that while the water might 'boil' on the side of K2, it took much longer to cook the egg as the water was boiling at 50 or so C 

Am a bit puzzled here, have no issue with the post, just on the science in the last piece

Flat plate panels are easier to keep clean especially if u are in an area prone to lots of leaves.

I believe easier to replace a broken tube in the evac tube ones

Having said that neither make sense $$$ wise in the standard configuration 'sold' in Ireland.


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## Shane007 (27 Aug 2011)

hastalavista said:


> This is a fine post, one of the best I have seen in a while.


 
Thank you.



hastalavista said:


> I have a small query about the sentence underlined.
> If the temp in the cylinder is > than 15 degrees then what heat gets transferred.
> 
> In terms of energy transfer, I know from my mountaineering days that while the water might 'boil' on the side of K2, it took much longer to cook the egg as the water was boiling at 50 or so C
> ...


 
There are mainly two types of tubes. The Sydney tube (typical Chinese manufactured tube in tube) where the vacuum is between a thin gap between an inner tube and an outer tube. The absorber is within normal atmospheric pressure and open to normal losses. The second is one whole tube where the absorber itself is within a vacuum. All heat pipe evacuated tubes contain two vacuums. One to stop heat loss from the absorber and the other is located within the heat pipe itself.

The fluid within the heat pipe section of the tube is within a vaccum and not the heat transfer fluid (Glycol). This is a very small amount of fluid. When the solar rays hit the absorber and the absorber coating (Tinox, which is also there to increase temperature), because the fluid is within a strong vacuum, it boils at approx 15°C. Once boiled, it turns to steam and rises to the top of the heat pipe and into the condenser of the heat pipe. If you touched the condenser during this cycle, you would most certainly burn yourself. The condenser section of the heat pipe is plugged into the solar manifold which the glycol passes it, thus gaining the heat from the steam within the condenser. As steam it has a touch temperature of that similar to boiling water and beyond. Hence, temperatures of nearly 200°C can be achieved but unadvisable due to as temperature increases so does pressure and in addition the glycol mix within the system will stagnate, loosing its beneficial properties. Once the heat is taken from the condenser and transferred into the Glycol, it therefore cools and turns back into a liquid and runs back to the bottom of the heat pipe for the cycle to be repeated. This is why heat pipe tubes cannot be installed on roof pitches less than 20° and more than 70° as the steam maybe blocked by the liquid returning and vica versa. Only direct flow systems can be used down to 1° and 89°. Before you ask, the 1° is stop air locking.

The 15°C has nothing to do with the cylinder temperature. Kingspan's HP200 has a temperature limiter built into the condenser to limit the manifold temperature to 95°C, whilst the HP250 (commercial tube) limits to 135°C. Stagnation occurs at approx 179°C. This manifold temperature is the temperature reached in the Glycol at the manifold and is the temperature that is used to be pumped through the cylinder coil, thus heating your domestic hot water or what have you.

Generally speaking, tubes are self cleaning whilst flat retain dirt for longer periods, however, I agree in areas prone to leaves, they can get caught up in between the tubes, however, a rare occurance.

Only replacing a heat pipe tube is easier as it is a plug and play system. The heat pipe is a dry connection. You can have a direct flow tube that will require a system drain down to change a tube, or at least to drain down below the level of the manifold.


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## hastalavista (28 Aug 2011)

Thanks for this.
 what is the liquid used that boils and condenses as the energy transfer is related to the vapourisation/condensing of this liquid.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization

I had been looking at it from a specific heat issue, which is wrong
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-d_339.html

as this only applies within the same state.


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## Shane007 (29 Aug 2011)

hastalavista said:


> Thanks for this.
> what is the liquid used that boils and condenses as the energy transfer is related to the vapourisation/condensing of this liquid.?


 
De-ionized water is used within the heat pipe.

The heat transfer fluid (Glycol) should be strictly factory mixed. This way the integrity of the mix can be guaranteed. Many installers use a cheaper concentrate mix and mixed on site with water from the homeowners tap. This is a no no! Only distilled water should be used to guarantee the integrity of the water being mixed and the exact percentage/ratios should only be used. A little too much or a little too little can have a huge effect on the properties of the mix. 

As with all systems regular checking of the condition of the Glycol should be carried out. This is easily done with a Refractometer.


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## boom101 (5 Jul 2017)

i had giving a very large deposit to Activ8. i didnt hear about the tube until today. i quoted for e6500 with the grant i have to pay e5300. they give me pipes and tank and a few extra with that price. now i am very dissapointed with myself, i should have looked into it more. how can i get my deposit back. if not are the flat panells that bad? please help.


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## MrEarl (6 Jul 2017)

Hello,

If they have not done any work yet, then you should be in a reasonable position to try and get out of the deal.  Call them and tell them you have changed your mind and want your money back.


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## Michael OShea (1 Sep 2020)

We have 3 panels installed since 2016 . I don't understand the technical issues but I do know that they don't work as we get very little hot water even on bright summer days. These panels are the worst investment on our house that we have made. Active 8 have so far provided no back up servicing despite efforts to make a booking . The only contact from active8 is when they try to sell us new panels.(no chance)


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## Zenith63 (1 Sep 2020)

Like others I found the Activ8 sales tatics extremely aggressive and frankly predatory.  The sales guy didn't leave our house until 10pm after spending hours trying to persuade us to sign there-and-then or we'd lose out on this deal or that deal.  Secret codes that you have to pass from your first contact with them to your sales guy.  Proposal that started out near to €25k for a very basic system.  Deals that expire that night etc etc.

They are part-owned by SSE Airtricity, no idea how they are letting these practices take place under their name to be honest.

Avoid like the plague, there are plenty of really good companies out there.


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## Zenith63 (1 Sep 2020)

Michael OShea said:


> We have 3 panels installed since 2016 . I don't understand the technical issues but I do know that they don't work as we get very little hot water even on bright summer days. These panels are the worst investment on our house that we have made. Active 8 have so far provided no back up servicing despite efforts to make a booking . The only contact from active8 is when they try to sell us new panels.(no chance)



Are they PV panels (covert sunlight to electricity directly) or thermal (sunlight heats water in tubes through the panel, which is transferred to your hot water tank)?


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## manosK (13 Oct 2020)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> Do you have a timing switch?
> 
> Our solar panels work brilliantly.


What company did you go with and when did you install the panels?


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## manosK (13 Oct 2020)

Zenith63 said:


> Like others I found the Activ8 sales tatics extremely aggressive and frankly predatory.  The sales guy didn't leave our house until 10pm after spending hours trying to persuade us to sign there-and-then or we'd lose out on this deal or that deal.  Secret codes that you have to pass from your first contact with them to your sales guy.  Proposal that started out near to €25k for a very basic system.  Deals that expire that night etc etc.
> 
> They are part-owned by SSE Airtricity, no idea how they are letting these practices take place under their name to be honest.
> 
> Avoid like the plague, there are plenty of really good companies out there.


I also had a visit from Activ8 and I agree with you but the final price they gave me was 7,5k not 25k for a normal system that would cover well our needs. How did the cost of your system come out to 25k????


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## Zenith63 (13 Oct 2020)

manosK said:


> I also had a visit from Activ8 and I agree with you but the final price they gave me was 7,5k not 25k for a normal system that would cover well our needs. How did the cost of your system come out to 25k????


Who knows.  Maybe they've corrected their ways, this was early last year.  Maybe they thought I was a sucker so tried it on.  To be fair I think the final quote after I gave the secret code, agreed to put a sign in my garden and did the secret hand shake (only this part is made up) was €15k, but that was for a small system with no battery - ie. it is in excess of 200% above the price it should be.


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## manosK (15 Oct 2020)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> They were installed when we bought the house.


ah, so you don't know who did the job. Are they still good?


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## Anniekate (8 Mar 2021)

Can anyone advise on the best type of Solar Panels to install.  I was told that Badger Power Electronics (BPE) are reliable.  I was quoted by an installer for 12 panels with battery and immersion diverter at a cost of €14,500 - grant €3,500 - cost to me €11,000


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## Zenith63 (8 Mar 2021)

Anniekate said:


> Can anyone advise on the best type of Solar Panels to install.  I was told that Badger Power Electronics (BPE) are reliable.  I was quoted by an installer for 12 panels with battery and immersion diverter at a cost of €14,500 - grant €3,500 - cost to me €11,000


Do you know what size battery you were being quoted?  Also the power output of the panels?


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## Coldwarrior (8 Mar 2021)

Anniekate said:


> Can anyone advise on the best type of Solar Panels to install.  I was told that Badger Power Electronics (BPE) are reliable.  I was quoted by an installer for 12 panels with battery and immersion diverter at a cost of €14,500 - grant €3,500 - cost to me €11,000


What's the power output output of those panels? Sounds  expensive. boards.ie has huge threads on what people are being quoted and paying for solar panels here, you'll see a lot of examples of what you'd expect to pay there.


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## Anniekate (8 Mar 2021)

Its 5Kw output.


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## Zenith63 (8 Mar 2021)

Anniekate said:


> Its 5Kw output.


I'd guess that's the maximum throughput of the inverter.  Can you see the output of the panels, x12 is probably giving you more like 4kW?  The battery capacity (expressed in kWh) is also critical to understanding the price, they might be including one worth €1k or €10k.


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## Alkers86 (8 Mar 2021)

Either way that quote is far too expensive.
What is your electricity usage like? How much do you spend per year? Do you have a day/night meter? Are you home all day (apart from the pandemic)?


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## agencydude (9 Mar 2021)

Hi Anniekate
That is way too expensive.
 A forum with lots of information on this is at : https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112573896
I recommend you read through the threads on this . There is lots of useful info at this location


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## Laughahalla (5 Apr 2021)

Anniekate said:


> Can anyone advise on the best type of Solar Panels to install.  I was told that Badger Power Electronics (BPE) are reliable.  I was quoted by an installer for 12 panels with battery and immersion diverter at a cost of €14,500 - grant €3,500 - cost to me €11,000



Battery must be huge for that price.

With the new feed in tariff it might not make sense to get a battery unless the grant covers the full cost.

Shop around- lots of companies out there.  
Some (lots) will overcharge you but most make a profit charging alot less than you've been quoted.

My 4.2kw solar PV (14*300w panels ) with 4.8kw lithium batteries and diverter cost 6k net after grant.


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## kieran walsh (4 Aug 2021)

Mickeroo
Where can I get 10 panels for 4,500 ?


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## kieran walsh (4 Aug 2021)

Laughahalla said:


> Battery must be huge for that price.
> 
> With the new feed in tariff it might not make sense to get a battery unless the grant covers the full cost.
> 
> ...


What company ?


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## kieran walsh (4 Aug 2021)

Quoted 8,000 for 10 panels only.
Way too dear in my opinion.
Where can I get a better price from ?


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## Zenith63 (4 Aug 2021)

There's a link to a boards.ie thread a few posts before yours, you'll find a ton of quotes there from various providers and get a good sense of what is a decent price.

FWIW I found NextGenPower good and reasonably priced, after a little pressure.  Hoping to move house soon and I'll use them again.  I have no relationship to the company.


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## Alkers86 (5 Aug 2021)

kieran walsh said:


> Quoted 8,000 for 10 panels only.
> Way too dear in my opinion.
> Where can I get a better price from ?


You can get 7 panels (2,500W total) from Mysolar.ie for €2,400 cost to you after grants and you can pay this back at €20 a month over ten years. That quote you have is insanely badm €5,600 extra for three more panels. Panels cost about €150 each by the way, the cost is the install.

I've used mysolar.ie since December and have no issues.


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## ThatNewGuy (6 Aug 2021)

Alkers86 said:


> You can get 7 panels (2,500W total) from Mysolar.ie for €2,400 cost to you after grants and you can pay this back at €20 a month over ten years. That quote you have is insanely badm €5,600 extra for three more panels. Panels cost about €150 each by the way, the cost is the install.
> 
> I've used mysolar.ie since December and have no issues.



That deal must not be available anymore, the cheapest on their site is 40per month, or 50 to have hot water included


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## kinnjohn (6 Aug 2021)

ThatNewGuy said:


> That deal must not be available anymore, the cheapest on their site is 40per month, or 50 to have hot water included


39.99 with a grant 20 euro look again under the 39.99,


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## Laughahalla (8 Aug 2021)

kieran walsh said:


> What company ?


A company called savememoney wind and solar based in Dublin but do work all over. I'm over 2 hours drive away from them. I've had no problems with them in the three years I've had them in.


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## presidenttttt (8 Aug 2021)

Alkers86 said:


> You can get 7 panels (2,500W total) from Mysolar.ie for €2,400 cost to you after grants and you can pay this back at €20 a month over ten years. That quote you have is insanely badm €5,600 extra for three more panels. Panels cost about €150 each by the way, the cost is the install.
> 
> I've used mysolar.ie since December and have no issues.


Spread over 10 years? At no cost? Sounds very good! Unless the price paid today is inflated?


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## Alkers86 (9 Aug 2021)

presidenttttt said:


> Spread over 10 years? At no cost? Sounds very good! Unless the price paid today is inflated?


At no cost yeah, you can repay it all in once if you like. The price is far from inflated, they are by far the cheapest for those looking to go with a small system. Their prices for larger systems with diverters and batteries etc are pretty average but their lowest cost / smallest system is an excellent price.


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## ThatNewGuy (25 Aug 2021)

kinnjohn said:


> 39.99 with a grant 20 euro look again under the 39.99,


Thanks, I might have misinterpreted their website - I read that as "if you get the grant, you qualify for this cashback, which is the equivalent saving of 20 a month, but we'll still charge 40 a month". Are you saying you're only being charged 20 a month?  That makes it much more appealing - I know the net outcome is the same but I like to minimise my monthly running subscription costs across everything as they rack up!

Still seems like a decent deal to me overall, but I haven't done much research in the area yet


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## ThatNewGuy (7 Sep 2021)

ThatNewGuy said:


> Thanks, I might have misinterpreted their website - I read that as "if you get the grant, you qualify for this cashback, which is the equivalent saving of 20 a month, but we'll still charge 40 a month". Are you saying you're only being charged 20 a month?  That makes it much more appealing - I know the net outcome is the same but I like to minimise my monthly running subscription costs across everything as they rack up!
> 
> Still seems like a decent deal to me overall, but I haven't done much research in the area yet


Just for anyone who stumbles upon this thread, I found this on their site:


_CAN I GET A GRANT FOR THE SOLAR AND CAR CHARGER INSTALLATION?_​_
MySolar will assist you with your application for the grant for solar and car charger installations. Any savings will then be incorporated into our contract with you. The process is simple and transparent and allows you to benefit from the grant funding with the least possible fuss._

So it seems they take it off the monthly charge then which is good


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## Alkers86 (7 Sep 2021)

ThatNewGuy said:


> Thanks, I might have misinterpreted their website - I read that as "if you get the grant, you qualify for this cashback, which is the equivalent saving of 20 a month, but we'll still charge 40 a month". Are you saying you're only being charged 20 a month?  That makes it much more appealing - I know the net outcome is the same but I like to minimise my monthly running subscription costs across everything as they rack up!
> 
> Still seems like a decent deal to me overall, but I haven't done much research in the area yet


Yes, I got the grant, which I gave to the company and now I only pay €20 per month. Total outlay to me has been €40 * 2 (while waiting for grant to come through) and then €20 per month subsequently. I received a grant of €1,800 which I gave to mysolar, if I'd kept that I'd be still paying €40 per month.


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## Haille (21 Nov 2021)

What company did you go with Laughahalla? I was recommended with my electricity usage of between 4000-5000 units would probably put me in 4-5 Kip for panels and 5 KWh battery.I was told that I should get that for €7K-€8K.


Laughahalla said:


> Battery must be huge for that price.
> 
> With the new feed in tariff it might not make sense to get a battery unless the grant covers the full cost.
> 
> ...


hat


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## Alkers86 (22 Nov 2021)

Haille said:


> What company did you go with Laughahalla? I was recommended with my electricity usage of between 4000-5000 units would probably put me in 4-5 Kip for panels and 5 KWh battery.I was told that I should get that for €7K-€8K.
> 
> hat


The economics of a battery are uncertain at the moment, until the details of the feed-in-tarrif are announced.


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## Leo (22 Nov 2021)

Interesting to see that the Netherlands will phase out all feed-in-tariffs for domestic solar as the scale there was causing congestion problems in the low voltage grid.


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