# How many cigarettes?



## thedaras (12 Jul 2011)

Hi,Can Anyone on AAM tell me if the following is correct.
If you buy cigerettes in a European country,with the duty already paid,you can bring back as many as you want within reason for personal use only?
Is this correct?


----------



## thombom (12 Jul 2011)

As far as I know it only 1 carton (200 cigs)


----------



## 4th estate (12 Jul 2011)

thombom said:


> As far as I know it only 1 carton (200 cigs)



If you buy your fags in an EU country and pay the duty in the country of purchase, TECHNICALLY you can bring in as much as you want for your own personal use

However our Customs have an indicative amount, i.e. 800 or 4 boxes. So it seems to me that if you import duty paid from EU more than 800 you will really have to prove that they are for you alone.

There is a lot of smuggling going on re cigs from Eastern Europe and the Canaries (not EU but duty free, even better again, but 200 only allowed). So there is a bit of worry that people bringing in loadsa fags from say Poland are doing it to sell them on. 

My sister and her husband buy their fags in Spain €42.50 per 200, less than half price of here. They bring in 10 boxes each about twice a year, but in fairness it is for their own use.


----------



## horusd (12 Jul 2011)

I read the customs limit of 800. But surely as it's within the EU there shouldn't be a limit? And how would you prove you were only importing for personal use?


----------



## WindUp (13 Jul 2011)

smoke them all there and then


----------



## dereko1969 (13 Jul 2011)

The Indicative limit means they might ask you questions but there is no actual limit as long as it's for your own use and not for re-sale. If they think you're going over and back to Eastern Europe specifically to buy cigarettes they will likely confiscate them, if it's a one-off it will be difficult for Revenue to prove that it's not for own use.


----------



## truthseeker (13 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> I read the customs limit of 800. But surely as it's within the EU there shouldn't be a limit? And how would you prove you were only importing for personal use?


 
Many many years ago an american auntie used to buy 800 or 1000 cigarettes travelling and remove one cigarette from each box claiming it proved beyond all reasonable doubt that they were for personal use.


----------



## Leo (13 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> But surely as it's within the EU there shouldn't be a limit?


 
EU legislation allows member states apply exemptions on excisable products.


----------



## dereko1969 (13 Jul 2011)

Leo said:


> EU legislation allows member states apply exemptions on excisable products.


 
Only if not for personal use, and proving that is the tricky part for Revenue.


----------



## horusd (13 Jul 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Only if not for personal use, and proving that is the tricky part for Revenue.


 
Like how many are too many? If yer were a 40 a day bloke, ye might want to bring an extra case and it would effectively pay for your holiday!

I know one chap who goes to the Canaries and brings home a small trailer full for himself.  It does him for the year. (PS I know the Canaries are different, but just making the point).


----------



## dereko1969 (13 Jul 2011)

therein lies the rub for Revenue.....

Apparently the Revenue Commissioner admitted at an Oireachtas committee that the 800 limit has no legal standing and that each case is treated on a case by case basis.

the guy coming back from the Canaries is definitely breaking the law however.


----------



## Leo (14 Jul 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Only if not for personal use, and proving that is the tricky part for Revenue.


 
This Revenue [broken link removed] states the maximum quantities they will accept as being for personal use (800 in the case of cigarettes).
Leo


----------



## foxylady (14 Jul 2011)

I was told before that 3200 was the limit once they were duty paid


----------



## dereko1969 (14 Jul 2011)

Leo said:


> This Revenue [broken link removed] states the maximum quantities they will accept as being for personal use (800 in the case of cigarettes).
> Leo


 
I'll repeat myself stating that this is not legally based, as the Revenue Commissioner herself stated at the PAC.

[broken link removed]

And from the Oireachtas debates record: 

*Ms Josephine Feehily:*  By every method known to man and woman. There are three main ways in which untaxed tobacco gets into the country. The first is often missed in the discussion. *In the context of our membership of the European Union, people can bring duty paid tobacco from other member states for their personal use. While we have an indicative guideline of 800 cigarettes, it is only indicative and the law states a person can bring in tobacco for personal use. There is significant case law in the European and domestic courts that suggests that the burden of proof for us to establish cigarettes are not for personal use is very high. People can legally bring many thousands of cigarettes into the country for their own use.*
<A name=N137>The second source, which we have seen increase significantly in the last few years, is “ant smuggling”. This involves large numbers of people each bringing a suitcase aboard a plane.
<A name=N138>The really major volumes come via container into the ports. Our largest seizures in the last few months have seen 120 million cigarettes seized in Greenore at the end of October, 32 million cigarettes in Dublin Airport last year, 8 million cigarettes seized on New Year’s Day in Dublin Port, with a further 31 million in Dundalk in the last couple of weeks. The major volumes are coming to the ports. There were a further 4.2 million cigarettes seized in Cork Port in February.
<A name=N139>The big volumes are coming through the ports but if there are enough small volumes getting through, there is still a problem.
<A name=N140>*Those are the three main sources of untaxed cigarettes. The second two sources are illegal while the first is not, and that is an important point.*


----------



## Lex Foutish (15 Jul 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> therein lies the rub for Revenue.....
> 
> Apparently the Revenue Commissioner admitted at an Oireachtas committee that the 800 limit has no legal standing and that each case is treated on a case by case basis.
> 
> *the guy coming back from the Canaries is definitely breaking the law however*.


 
Correct. The Canary Islands are, technically, not part of the E.U. What you can bring into the country from there is the same as what you can bring from any country outside of the E.U.


----------



## Bronte (22 Jul 2011)

You can bring as many duty paid EU cigarets to Ireland as long as they are for personal use.  The 800 limit is not true and was just made up by customers and excise.


----------



## Sue Ellen (22 Jul 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Many many years ago an american auntie used to buy 800 or 1000 cigarettes travelling and remove one cigarette from each box claiming it proved beyond all reasonable doubt that they were for personal use.



In doing so she probably left a lot of them damp by the time she got around to smoking them.  A friend opened a pack of cigarettes and as she went to take out each one they broke off at the filter end.  When she complained she was told that they were most likely an old packet and were damp.


----------



## TarfHead (22 Jul 2011)

Looking to avoid paying Government revenue on a product which increases the likliehood of you needing health services which are funded from Government revenue.


----------



## thedaras (22 Jul 2011)

TarfHead said:


> Looking to avoid paying Government revenue on a product which increases the likliehood of you needing health services which are funded from Government revenue.


 
Who are you referring too?

Im not a smoker,and my understanding(having done some research) is that if the duty has been paid within the EU,then you can bring back as many as you like for personal use.(perfectly legal and above board).


----------

