# Pay to speak Irish



## dewdrop (23 Apr 2008)

it is reported that nurses in Dingle are seeking additional payment for being able to speak Irish to patients. Is there any other country in the world where people seek payment to speak the first language?


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## Purple (23 Apr 2008)

dewdrop said:


> it is reported that nurses in Dingle are seeking additional payment for being able to speak Irish to patients. Is there any other country in the world where people seek payment to speak the first language?


No, but they will probably get it.


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## Simeon (23 Apr 2008)

I wonder if there is any chance of VHI paying out double to the patients ..... for having to listen to them. Why all this silly business? I'm sure if it was a grant form that had to be filled out in English ........ there would be little problem for the patients.


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## aonfocaleile (24 Apr 2008)

As an Irish speaker myself, who relishes the rare opportunities I get to speak Irish at work, this kind of thing makes me 

I doubt if they will get it though - to concede such a claim would open the floodgates for teachers in Gaelscoileanna, Gardaí, civil and public servants who interact with Irish speakers etc. If nothing else, it would be bad industrial relations.It would also make a mockery of the position of Irish in Bunreacht na hÉireann. Still, it means things in the health service must be improving if this is what nurses are concerned about


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## Rovers1901 (24 Apr 2008)

Don't Gardai in Gaeltacht areas get an extra allowance ?


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## Simeon (24 Apr 2008)

Hi aonfocaleile! An enlightened piece. And for the first time I have not felt threatened by a Gaelgoir. Thank you for not trying to ram it. As regards the nurses ....... if you read The Selfish Gene (Richard Dawkins) you wil see why they (and indeed all of us) cary on as we do in these circumstances. Incidentally, his tome is _as bearla_ only.


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## Eanair (25 Apr 2008)

> to concede such a claim would open the floodgates for teachers in Gaelscoileanna, Gardaí, civil and public servants who interact with Irish speakers etc.


 
These professions, if based in certain Gaeltacht areas, may already receive a Gaeltacht Allowance - it was set up in the 30s to encourage gardai to relocate to Gaeltacht areas and covers certain professions including teachers and nurses. Not getting into the rights and wrongs of whether the Gaeltacht Allowance should exist or not (don't have an opinion either way), but the nurses seem to be entitled to this allowance, and are looking for parity. If you think it should be abolished altogether then fair enough, but that's another question entirely.


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## Purple (25 Apr 2008)

Eanair said:


> These professions, if based in certain Gaeltacht areas, may already receive a Gaeltacht Allowance - it was set up in the 30s to encourage gardai to relocate to Gaeltacht areas and covers certain professions including teachers and nurses. Not getting into the rights and wrongs of whether the Gaeltacht Allowance should exist or not (don't have an opinion either way), but the nurses seem to be entitled to this allowance, and are looking for parity. If you think it should be abolished altogether then fair enough, but that's another question entirely.


What grants are there for professional plasterers or professional accountants to relocate to the Gaeltacht?


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## Simeon (25 Apr 2008)

Purple said:


> What grants are there for professional plasterers or professional accountants to relocate to the Gaeltacht?


Speaking as a Spread, I'm not quite sure that this should apply to us. When we do speak at work, we're just talking to the wall (or ceiling) and as yet they have not put in for special as gaeilge treatment.


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## Purple (25 Apr 2008)

Simeon said:


> Speaking as a Spread, I'm not quite sure that this should apply to us. When we do speak at work, we're just talking to the wall (or ceiling) and as yet they have not put in for special as gaeilge treatment.


But I'm sure you are a professional spread.


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## aonfocaleile (25 Apr 2008)

I accept the point re parity with other (public service) professions who may receive the allowance. But on a broader level, the days of encouraging people to live in Gaeltacht areas are long gone. Its hard to buy a house there now, let alone get planning permission to build one, unless previous generations of your family lived in a particular area. However, I'm sure there would be uproar about the "damage" to the language if the allowance was withdrawn. 

I wonder do civil/public servants in Roinn na Gaeltachta or Local Authorites in Kerry/Dongeal/Galway etc receive a language allowance? I doubt it to be honest, but am open to correction.

Also, why don't Gaeltacht natives (for want of a better phrase) who work in English speaking areas, seek a similar allowance? Or foreign nurses whose first language is not English?  Oh, thats right, because no one forces them to work where they work.


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

As the first language of this counrty - all people working in the public sector should be able to conduct business with the public in Irish.

It is about time local authorities and public services showed leadership in this area.

People should be demanding services in Irish.


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

I think those working in the civil service who complete the scrudu beal get extra payment.

It would be better - if those who could not be bothered to learn the language to docked.

Hit them in the pocket and they'll pick up the language.

When you see the progress Des Bishop made - what excuse do our public servants have?


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## Complainer (25 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> When you see the progress Des Bishop made - what reasons do our public servants have?


Des didn't learn it for the good of his health. He made a TV show which presumably earned him lost of money.

But seeing as you take the knee-jerk reaction of asking why our public servants don't learn Irish, here's a few;

1) They are kind-of busy with the day job. What loss in productivity of public services would you be prepared to live with to give people the time to learn a new language?
2) Taking money off people would be a breach of existing terms and conditions and would be illegal. It's generally not a good idea for the Govt to take illegal actions.
3) The vast majority of the Irish population are very likely to continue to want to interact with the public service in English, therefore the value-for-money return in spending time and cost on all public servants learning Irish is highly questionable.
4) Forcing people to learn a language is generally not very effective. They've tried it that way with Irish in schools, and it hasn't worked. Why would you want to continue to go down this road?

Maybe if you sit back and think about this for more than a few seconds, you'll come up with some constructive suggestions.


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## Welfarite (25 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> I think those working in the civil service who complete the scrudu beal get extra payment.


 

Utter balderdash.

I can see this thread developing in the way as many others which discuss Public Servants do ...tar every public servant with the same brush. A comment about gardai getting Gaeltacht Allowances adn suddenly, it is a "fact" that "all" public servants get an allowance for working in the Gaeltacht.

This is a fact: no civil servant gets an allowance for working in a gaeltacht area but is expected to be able to deliver a service through Irish if a member of of the public demands it, in a gaeltacht area or outside..


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## z103 (25 Apr 2008)

> I can see this thread developing in the way as many others which discuss Public Servants do ...tar every public servant with the same brush.


This thread is even better because the topic of 'public sector' has been cleverly merged with 'Irish language'. Can anyone squeeze in drink/drugs, speeding fines or the Catholic Church?


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

The Irish Language is the first official language of this state and public services should be available in Irish.

_This county should expect a bi-lingual public service._

_It has nothing to do with slagging off the public service. _


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## z103 (25 Apr 2008)

> _This county should expect a bi-lingual public service._


_
_What advantages are there to this?
How many Irish speakers do not understand English?


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## GeneralZod (25 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> As the first language of this counrty - all people working in the public sector should be able to conduct business with the public in Irish.



ALL is a bit high as a proportion. 

That would amount to discrimination against the majority that speak English.

Cushy public sector jobs shouldn't only be open to people that can speak Irish.


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## becky (25 Apr 2008)

Rovers1901 said:


> Don't Gardai in Gaeltacht areas get an extra allowance ?


 
Yes think its as much as 15%. So if you work in Galway city you get it as areas along the Tuam Road use to be classifed as the Gealteach - not sure if this is still the case.

My garda friend used to be enraged by this as he felt that Galway guards has it easy in comparison to the other cities like Limerick, Dublin and Cork.

It won't happen as the physios, medics etc will then expect it and rightly so as there is no good reason to give it to the nurses over the other professional grades.


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## Purple (25 Apr 2008)

Complainer said:


> Des didn't learn it for the good of his health. He made a TV show which presumably earned him lost of money.
> 
> But seeing as you take the knee-jerk reaction of asking why our public servants don't learn Irish, here's a few;
> 
> ...


I agree with all of that (except maybe the "They are kind-of busy with the day job" bit  ).


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

Article 8[1] of the Constitution proclaims the Irish language as the national and first official language of the State, recognizing English only as a second official language. 

If public servants have a problem with the Constitution - hard luck.

Were these people unaware of the Irish constitution before taking up jobs in the public sector?

Down here in Cork - many people from the HSE learn Irish in their own time.

What is wrong at having more than one language?


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

I am not being anti public sector. But getting services in either Irish or English is a right.

Every public sector organisation should have structures in place that services are available bi-lingually.

I have improved my irish recently going to a weekly circle comhra and completed 20 week conversational classes.

Many people at these courses were HSE employees - improving their knowledge of the language on their own time.

I am sure they expect no additional payment but to improve their ability in using the language.


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## becky (25 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> Many people at these courses were HSE employees - improving their knowledge of the language on their own time.
> 
> I am sure they expect no additional payment but to improve their ability in using the language.


 

All HSE areas have an Irish Officer who has a list of staff who are competent in irish.

The are not entitled to extra payment for doing this course but that not to say they don't expect it


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## csirl (25 Apr 2008)

> Article 8[1] of the Constitution proclaims the Irish language as the national and first official language of the State, recognizing English only as a second official language.
> 
> If public servants have a problem with the Constitution - hard luck.
> 
> ...


 
Cork conveniently omits the important part of the Constitution which says quote:

"Provision may, however, be made in law for the exclusive use of either said language for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof."

It seems like Cork is the one who has a problem with the Constitution as he seems to be opposed to the idea that the Government can provide services in english in parts of the country where most people speak english.



> What is wrong at having more than one language?


 
It causes confusion and misinterpretations as well as costing a lot of money in translations. Better to have everyone speaking the same language.


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

csirl said:


> It causes confusion and misinterpretations as well as costing a lot of money in translations. Better to have everyone speaking the same language.


 
Many EU contries are bilingual & have no problems.


csirl said:


> opposed to the idea that the Government can provide services in english in parts of the country where most people speak english.


 

No exemptions exist under the 2003 languages act



> All HSE areas have an Irish Officer who has a list of staff who are competent in irish.


 
But at public counters - services need to be available in our first language.


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## cork (25 Apr 2008)

Welfarite said:


> Utter balderdash.


 
Just to clarify that civil servants do get extra payment for passing the scrudu beal.

This scheme needs to be extended to local authories and the HSE.

Public servants operating in a country without our 1st language should be given the opportunity to learn the language or else find alternative employment where the language is not required.

Irish is now an official lamguage of the EU. The Officail Languages Act os there since 2003. Des Bishop picked up the language.

What excuses do public servants give for not learning the language?

Excuses shouldn't be tolerated. The public sector needs to raise their fame big time with regards the language.


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## gebbel (26 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> What is wrong at having more than one language?





csirl said:


> It causes confusion and misinterpretations as well as costing a lot of money in translations. Better to have everyone speaking the same language.



Look at Belgium, I think 3 languages are spoken there and they communicate just fine!


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## Blinder (26 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> People should be demanding services in Irish.


Why would I do that when I wouldn't have a clue what they were saying?


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## GeneralZod (26 Apr 2008)

gebbel said:


> Look at Belgium, I think 3 languages are spoken there and they communicate just fine!



The Flemings & Walloons known for their love of each other. Where they only just agreed on a Prime Minister after their 2007 election. Like the Palestinians and Israelis or Unionists and Nationalists.


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## DrMoriarty (26 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> The public sector needs to raise their fame big time with regards the language.


Cad é sin arís?


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## cork (26 Apr 2008)

> _The public sector needs to raise their *G*ame big time with regards the language._


 
But the public sector in parts are. HSE employees in Cork go to the 20 week conversational classes. The HSE pays for it - if they have good attendence.

The Librarys have circle comhras.

Brian Cowen sees the Irish Language as one of his priorities.

I have no dout - a bi-lingual public sector is on the eay. 

Having a few with Irish in a public office is not an acceptable solution.


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## Simeon (26 Apr 2008)

GeneralZod said:


> The Flemings & Walloons known for their love of each other. Where they only just agreed on a Prime Minister after their 2007 election. Like the Palestinians and Israelis or Unionists and Nationalists.


Oui, exactement General Zod!


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## z103 (26 Apr 2008)

> The HSE pays for it - if they have good attendence.
> 
> The Librarys have circle comhras.
> 
> ...


As if the country's finances weren't looking bleak enough as it is, we have the white elephant of a dead language to support.

Why not just treat it like Irish music? - If people want to learn it (and use their own money) to keep a tradition alive, great. Other people shouldn't have to suffer.


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## Purple (27 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> But the public sector in parts are. HSE employees in Cork go to the 20 week conversational classes. The HSE pays for it - if they have good attendence.
> 
> The Librarys have circle comhras.
> 
> ...


Great, I can see it now; Nurses with bi-lingual placards picketing hospitals while they look for even shorter hours and one of their tri-annual pay increases. Meanwhile granny Murphy inside on a trolley will be told that there's still no bed for her in a language she doesn't understand... good to see we've got our priorities right.

Charley Bird will be called in, “Oh Charley”, granny Murphy will say, “It was great, they told me that I’d be in the corridor for another day or two but I didn’t understand.”
“What happened then?” Charley will ask.
“The nurse said that it wasn’t her job to translate, since Irish is our first language, and a demarcation dispute broke out.”

Charley (to camera), “So that’s why the hard pressed nurses are outside venting their anger at how badly they are treated. Yet another failure by Mary Harney”


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## cork (27 Apr 2008)

Purple said:


> Great, I can see it now; Nurses with bi-lingual placards picketing hospitals


 
The focus of public sector workers should be on the public and the country.



> As if the country's finances weren't looking bleak enough as it is, we have the white elephant of a dead language to support.
> 
> Why not just treat it like Irish music? - If people want to learn it (and use their own money) to keep a tradition alive, great. Other people shouldn't have to suffer.


 

Why should people suffer?

Surely it is not beyond the Irish public sector to learn the 1st Official Language of this country?

Des Bishop got a good grasp of the language within a year. Why expect less from those paid by the  state?


These people have steady and pensionable jobs. Why they don't already have the language is beyond me.

The Irish Lanuage is this countrys 1st Official Language since 1937. The Official Languages Act was passed in 2003. Public servants will simply have to learn the language. Having designated people with Irish within the public service is not a solution.

*Cost*
I am aganist translating publications into Irish. The emphesis should be on oral communication. (this would make better use of resources).

Civil Servants who pass the scudu beal get extra payment - why not extend this to the HSE and Local government?

The Israeli govt. revived Hebrew using the public sector during the 1950s - it worked.

But it all will come done to the atitude of staff and management having proper structures in place.


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## z103 (27 Apr 2008)

> These people have steady and pensionable jobs. Why they don't already have the language is beyond me.


Simple, they don't need to know it to do their jobs. They don't need to know how to play the tin whistle either.


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## Welfarite (28 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> These people have steady and pensionable jobs. Why they don't already have the language is beyond me.
> 
> Civil Servants who pass the scudu beal get extra payment - why not extend this to the HSE and Local government?


 
Firstly, if they passed a scrúdu béal, they should be able to use it. Secondly, CS get extra payment for passing such an exam? Can you give an example?


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## aonfocaleile (28 Apr 2008)

As a CS who has passed this exam, I would also like to hear of an example where civil servants get additional payment for passing this. I certainly don't (nor do I expect one).


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## cork (28 Apr 2008)

> As a CS who has passed this exam, I would also like to hear of an example where civil servants get additional payment for passing this. I certainly don't (nor do I expect one).


 
One civil servant told me - but probably a case of bad information.

I apologise for that. 

But staff should get extra payment for passing the exam. Many others could not bother learning the language.

Why should the few who make the effort shoulder those who couldn't be bothered?


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## DrMoriarty (28 Apr 2008)

Eh, out of their abiding love of our first language, if I follow your logic so far?


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## Purple (28 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> Why should the few who make the effort shoulder those who couldn't be bothered?


Are you suggesting that Irish speaking civil servants experience a burdensome level of extra work because of the amount of enquiries they get in Irish?


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## cork (28 Apr 2008)

It really does not metter about the number of people that look for services in Irish. The Irish Public service should provide services in the 1st Official language. 


Staff that take time to learn the language are carrying those that could not be bothered. Staff at all levels - need to have a good grasp of the language. 


But I agree that it will come down to the atitude of staff towards the language and the ability of management to put appropriate structures in place for staff to learn the language.

The plans called "schemes" that many public sector organisations have come up with are pretty poor.

Low in both specifics and ambition.

What incentives would encourage staff to learn Irish or Is their love of the language enough?


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## Welfarite (28 Apr 2008)

The public service provision of a servide through Irish is bound by this  which covers many of the points being made in this thread.


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## cork (28 Apr 2008)

The 2003 Act is one element - but there is also the 37 constitution.

So, How to encourage the public service to learn Irish?
Stick or carrot?

Will their love of the language safice.

It will all depend on staff atitudes anyway as there will be no major sackings because of staff inability to speak Irish.


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## becky (28 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> there will be no major sackings because of staff inability to speak Irish.


 
there will be no sackings because of staff inability to speak Irish.


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## cork (28 Apr 2008)

No they'll be zero sackings - but how will staff be encoraged to take up the language?

Brian Cowen has already recognised the language as one of his priorities.

Going back to square 1 - Is extra payment the solution or will staff be willing to learn the language as part of their jobs?


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## z103 (28 Apr 2008)

> So, How to encourage the public service to learn Irish?
> Stick or carrot?


Forced or encouraged?

If someone wants to learn Irish, then they can pay for lessons and learn it. This is the same for Irish music lessons, dancing, swimming etc.

As it stands, I fail to see what benefit this brings. I can certainly see the negatives (yet another waste of public funds, waste of time, annoyed staff etc.)

Maybe learning Polish might be more useful.


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## Purple (28 Apr 2008)

Just noticed this.





cork said:


> The focus of public sector workers should be on the public and the country.


  I'd put my money on them all learning Irish before they focus on the public or the country.


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## Complainer (28 Apr 2008)

Purple said:


> Just noticed this.  I'd put my money on them all learning Irish before they focus on the public or the country.


I know your head might explode, but do take the risk of reading this thread so that you learn that at least some public servants do a great job for their customers.


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## Purple (28 Apr 2008)

Complainer said:


> I know your head might explode, but do take the risk of reading this thread so that you learn that at least some public servants do a great job for their customers.


 Did you miss the "" ?
I have often posted here that many civil and public servants do an excellent job. They do so despite the system they work within and not because of it. For this they deserve ample praise. I reserve my ire for those who seek to set the bar as low as possible and keep it there. In many (but not all) cases it is the unions who do this. While said unions have an important role to play in protecting employees from abuses their obstructionist mind-set outweighs the positive aspects of their work. 
Apologies for taking the thread off topic.


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## Berni (29 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> It really does not metter about the number of people that look for services in Irish.


 
Really? So everyone should throw infinite amounts of time and money at the language, just to keep a few people happy?

From the last census, there were 4,240,000 people in the country.
1,657,000 claim to be irish speakers, and of those 150,000 speak it daily or weekly. 

So to deal with 3.5% of the population, do we really need the entire civil service trained to speak irish fluently?


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## z103 (29 Apr 2008)

Interesting statistics there Berni. 

Any idea of how many people out of those 150,000 that speak Irish daily or weekly, do not understand English?


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## Berni (29 Apr 2008)

I would think the number is tiny.
That only 56% (36,500) of irish speakers in the Gaeltacht use it daily, and 38% of these use it only in school, says a lot...


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## cork (29 Apr 2008)

Berni said:


> So to deal with 3.5% of the population, do we really need the entire civil service trained to speak irish fluently?


 
We live in Ireland - surely the language should be supported by the state?

Brian Cowen has put it down as one of his 4 priorities.

Less than 50,000 use the language on a daily basis (outside of education) - the language is hanging on by a micro fibre.

That said - the population is extemely supportive of the language when polled.

Hebrew was revived making services available in the language.

But should we give civil servants additional payment or should their iniative be rewarded when interview time comes around?


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## Berni (29 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> We live in Ireland - surely the language should be supported by the state?


 
It is.  If you contact the gov in irish, they will respond in irish. 

You seem to want every civil servant to be able to deal with you in Irish, rather than the far more reasonable step of having services provided to you in irish (albeit by two people)


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## DrMoriarty (29 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> But should we give civil servants additional payment or should their iniative be rewarded when interview time comes around?


Neither. They should be rewarded for doing their job well.

The state already throws a disproportionate amount of time and money into 'supporting the language', if you ask me. With precious little return, to judge by the results.


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## rabbit (29 Apr 2008)

leghorn said:


> Forced or encouraged?
> 
> If someone wants to learn Irish, then they can pay for lessons and learn it. This is the same for Irish music lessons, dancing, swimming etc.
> 
> ...


 

Well said.   Indeed learning polish or chinese could be more useful.  There is more chinese spoken in this country than the Irish language.  More than enough money - billions of it - has been wasted over the decades trying to force people to speak Irish as it is, and it has not worked.   The taxpayer deserves better than pumping more money in to the dead Irish language, while people are lying on hospital trolleys etc, our school kids are in damp prefabs etc. 

Lets halve the govt printiing costs + save the environment !


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## cork (29 Apr 2008)

Berni said:


> It is. If you contact the gov in irish, they will respond in irish.


 
But if you visit - services should also be in Irish.



> The state already throws a disproportionate amount of time and money into 'supporting the language


 
But as a  % cost over  service provision - It is not that large.



> Lets halve the govt printiing costs + save the environment !


Agreed - emphises should be on the spoken language by the public sector and not professional translation outsourcing services.

There is nothing wrong with an Irish public services being bi-lingual.



> They should be rewarded for doing their job well.


 
But without having our  1st language then this would indicate problems in providing services to those who look for the service.

There needs to be structures in place to give us a bi-lingual public sector.  Still undecided about carrot v stick. To date, I don't think there have been either sanctions or reward in the public sector to encourage bi-lingualisim.


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## Berni (29 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> But as a  % cost over  service provision - It is not that large.
> 
> But without having our  1st language then this would indicate problems in providing services to those who look for the service.



So after you interrupt everyone from their jobs, spending plenty of time and money to teach them Irish, and still nobody wants to use the service in Irish, would you then consider that a good result?

Do you have any data on how much unfulfilled demand there is out there?


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## cork (30 Apr 2008)

If services were available - demand should follow.

Irish people have much respect for the language.

What we are discussing is the_ Irish_ public sector not using their own language. And How best to rectify this.

Demand is not an issue.

Very often - leadership is required.


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## Berni (30 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> If services were available - demand should follow.


That theory has worked really well with the official documents that have been translated - 
eg Clare county development plan, 200 english copies sold, zero irish.
[broken link removed]


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## rabbit (30 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> If services were available - demand should follow.
> 
> Irish people have much respect for the language.
> 
> ...


 
Demand is not an issue ?   lol    How many people do you see putting their money where you say their mouth is, and buying Irish language newspapers and magazines.


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## Purple (30 Apr 2008)

cork said:


> If services were available - demand should follow.
> 
> Irish people have much respect for the language.
> 
> ...


Crazy stuff there cork. Crazy, crazy stuff.
So you are of the opinion that the public sector should be forced to speak Irish, and even if no one wants to avail of the service it doesn’t matter; do it anyway because… well… because they should; that’s why.


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## Welfarite (1 May 2008)

In my office, I have designated staff to deal with people through Irish if they want it. I have signs up that the service is available. Since implentation in August 2007, we have had ....zero requests for the service. And the office is fifteen miles from a large gaeltacht area.


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## Caveat (1 May 2008)

I think Welfarite's post speaks volumes really.


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## csirl (1 May 2008)

> What we are discussing is the_ Irish_ public sector not using their own language. And How best to rectify this.


 
Who's own language? Irish is not the language of the seat of Government.

A very short history lesson. 

Dublin is the capital of Ireland. It is where, according to the Constitution, the Government sits. Irish has NEVER been the first spoken language in Dublin at any time in its history, going back over 1,000 years. In the early years, the Viking language was the spoken language, followed by the the variation of Norse that the Normans spoke, and then English. 

Dublin through most of its history has always operated as a somewhat autonomous city state. And this survives to this day - in terms of population and economics, Ireland today is essentially a Dublin city state with a hinterland covering most of the island. Like it or not, and I know this view is not popular with non-Dubliners, this is the reality.

In the same way that some areas of the country are deemed "Gaeltachts" then Dublin should be deemed an English speaking area where only the Dublin version of English should be spoken.


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## cork (3 May 2008)

Welfarite said:


> In my office, I have designated staff to deal with people through Irish if they want it. I have signs up that the service is available. Since implentation in August 2007, we have had ....zero requests for the service. And the office is fifteen miles from a large gaeltacht area.


 
But even that there were zero requests - the service is there. How many designated staff?


> So you are of the opinion that the public sector should be forced to speak Irish, and even if no one wants to avail of the service it doesn’t matter; do it anyway because… well… because they should; that’s why.


 
The first language of the state is Irish. They are been paid by the state. What is wrong at being bi-lingual. State services should be available in both languages. This has not been happening. People being told to wait for somebody who has Irish. Services should be available on an equal basis in both languages.

Why should we not aim for a bi-lingual public sector?

It is not beyond our public sector to achieve this.


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## z103 (3 May 2008)

> Why should we not aim for a bi-lingual public sector?


This is just going around in circles. I believe the reasons were multiple, lack of interest, cost etc.

Try reading this thread;
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=80551


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## cork (5 May 2008)

leghorn said:


> This is just going around in circles. I believe the reasons were multiple, lack of interest, cost etc.


 
No - this tread is quiet interesting.

I agree that there is a lack of interest on both the sides of the public sector and customers. This is because of the patchy level of services available previously.

But the kernel of this tread is that 2 people going into accessing public services - one demanding the service in each of the official state languages. Should these 2 citizens not be treated the same?

Cost is a good point but public sector organisations already have training budgets. Better spent on languages than other types of courses.

It all boils down to the level of service the state deems is appropriate to be provided in Irish.

I believe that is it is near parity with the services in english when u couple the 37 constitution with the official languages act.


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## Simeon (5 May 2008)

Does anyone know the Irish for "this topic has become boring"?


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