# American moving to Ireland



## christine10blue (28 Dec 2004)

Company transfer for my husband.  Head office is Southern CA and he will be on payroll there.  He will be working in countries other than Ireland, we have chosen to live in Ireland.  I will no longer be working.  We can no longer contribute to our 401Kin the USA as not residents.  I will roll mine over to an IRA account and can leave it there to retirement age, since I will no longer work I will not make any more contributions.  My husband will be working and we need to somehow continue to contribute to retirement, approx. 15 years.  Is there some type of account we can open in Ireland and make contributions to?  Thanks much for your information.


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## Alan Moore (29 Dec 2004)

Hi Christine,
The bigger accounting practices have departments set up for the likes of your situation ( I work in one but personally wouldn't be qualified to give advice on same ).

Contributions can be made to irish pensions schemes. But it would only be of benefit if you were to benefit from tax relief here ( in ireland ) but it sounds like your hubby will be paid in the US and taxed there also. If so does the 401K still apply?


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## Chord of Souls (30 Dec 2004)

> I will roll mine over to an IRA account...



Didn't they just put up to £40 million into an account themselves recently, to fund their pensions?  I wouldn't be offering them any more.  :lol


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## christine10blue (30 Dec 2004)

Thank you Alan.  The 401K will remain and we can draw on retirement but we can not add anything more to it when we live outside the USA.  It will increase just at a much slower rate so the need to have something else.  We will have to pay Income Tax in the USA and may need to also pay in Ireland from what I have been reading. Seems like that will be dependent on yearly income.  We are in the process of purchasing a fantastic renovated farm house near Tullamore. I should be able to check with my solicitor or realty office for an accounting firm locally unless anyone has a suggestion. Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction.


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## christine10blue (30 Dec 2004)

Hi Chord of Souls..didn't think that IRA of course means something different to you.  In the USA it stand for Individual Retirement Account.  You can start these at banks, large accounting firms, insurance companies, etc.Even if you have a retirement account through your employer you can open one of these accounts with a maximum per year and  it will be tax free until you draw out retirement when of course "Uncle Sam" (our government here) gets their share. Or if you do not have a retirement plan with your employer can you open your own individual one. Looking for something similar that an individual can open a retirement account not thru an employer.  Thanks much
for all input.


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## Max Hopper (5 Jan 2005)

Hello, .<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->If Hubby is being paid out of California, he is considered _seconded_ in Ireland. This condition is covered by a _dual taxation treaty_ between the US and Ireland. He is *not* subject to Irish taxes (but being paid in U$ dollars at the moment is painful) and is permitted to continue contributing to his 401k.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->You wrote that you are buying a house in Tullamore so one can only surmise that the above statements are invalid and that he has been _transferred_ to an Irish subsidiary. He _might_ negotiate with his employer to receive up to 5% of gross salary in lieu of an Irish pension contribution. That dosh could then be lodged into an IRA and/or Roth IRA. Also consider (if applicable) creation of UGMA/UTMA accounts for the kiddies, reducing further your American tax burden.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->NB. You are both still required by US law to annually file a 1040. The beauty of be paid outside the USA is that you now can avail of the _ex-patriate_ exemption.


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## christine10blue (7 Jan 2005)

Max thank you so much for your information. I would like to clarify and then pose another question. There is no Irish subsidiary.  Hubby working in Germany, Spain, Poland, and Sweden and we have chosen to live in Ireland. He will commute.(not daily).  We had a meeting yesterday with the CEO and some discussion about being paid in US $ and expatriate.  That is what is normally done on assignemts of 3 years.  We plan on staying till hubby retires, 15 years, and maybe after retirement. CEO then suggested perhaps it would be better to pay us from the "holding" company in Sweden and we would then be paid in Euros and he did not think there would be US taxes, but we may then need to pay Irish taxes since that is where we live.  CEO said we need to find a good accountant in Ireland who is knowledgeable with this.  Also told us if paid in Euros the company would open a retirement account there and we should probably leave the US retirement accounts here, unless the currency ever changes. So does this sound like the way to go?  Max, are you the accountant we need???? Thank you so much for the information.


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## sherman (8 Jan 2005)

Christine,

This is a massive move for you and it is imperative you get it right BEFORE moving. AFAIK US *citizens* pay US income tax no matter where they're paid/in what currency, as well as whatever taxes apply in the country in which they're working.

You really should seek professional advice NOW before moving, rather than getting well-meaning but potentially incorrect answers from an amateur website.

Also, have you considered things like currency risk? Or how about whether you'd be entitled to Social Security if you retired in Ireland permanently?

You should see an accountant or CPA in the US urgently.


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## christine10blue (8 Jan 2005)

Sherman thank you for your advice.  I have checked on this end but unfortunately accountants here seem only to know US info.  Its like currency, go to any bank in Europe and they change currency, go to banks here in the US with your foreign currency and they don't know what to do.  That is why I hope to find someone in Ireland who  will be able to do this.  Perhaps I can ask the solicitor we are using in Tullamore for an accoutant name.  We should be there the end of January to sign papers on our house.  Unless you have the name of an accountant or if anyone else does I would greatly appreciate.  Thanks again.


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## rainyday (8 Jan 2005)

Hi Christine - You need very specialist relocation advice on this matter. The good news is that it is fairly widely available from the Big 4 accounting firms (and some others I guess). The bad news is that it is will be quite expensive. Some large companies will arrange for professional advise for staff who are relocating as part of the relocation deal. You might like to check out this option.


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## Max Hopper (10 Jan 2005)

Uhh, you cannot simply _reside_ in Ireland unless Hubby is an EU-national. You will both be considered _tourists_ on 90 day visas. Hubby could be brought up short at Irish immigration because he would be entering the country so frequently. If the Swedish shell company obtains a work permit for Hubby in Sweden, then that is where you are legally permitted to reside, nowhere else in the EU.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Since Hubby's income is not derived from Irish operations it would not be subject to Irish tax. But you will cause a _de facto residency_ by residing in Ireland more than 183 days in a two year period. And that makes you liable for tax payments. Of note here is that you have *zero* rights and recourse to public services.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->If Hubby is paid from Sweden, then he will have to pay Swedish taxes (extortionate), Irish taxes because of residency, and US taxes by birth. You can only avail of the IRS expatriate exemption if income taxes have been paid in a country that holds a dual taxation agreement with the USA. And there is also the consideration of Social Security quarterly credits (which Hubby might not be eligible for).<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->There is a good expat tax consultant in Deloitte and Touche (Dublin). I cannot recall his name (I am not affliated in any way).


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## christine10blue (11 Jan 2005)

*American moving to dublin*

Thank you everyone.  This is complicated.  I will apply for citizenship thru my grandfather so hopefully that will help.  I did check with a friend here who is a CPA and she said no matter what country in the world I live or no matter what currency paid there will be US taxes.  Company will still pay into Social Security which we can collect when it is time no matter where we are(provided there will be any money in SS) We can keep the current 401K & IRA-both have internet access. Then I was advised to contact accounting firm in Ireland to do all the rest.  Thank you for the name, I will have my hubby call them as he has temporary residence in Germany.Hubby's company has other living outside the US so they seem to know how to get visas and when my Irish citizenship is complete that will help.  Any other information is certainly welcome and I do appreciate all information.


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## Max Hopper (11 Jan 2005)

*Re: American moving to dublin [sic]*

*Irish grandparents*<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->If you are of the third or subsequent generation born abroad to an Irish citizen (in other words, one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland), you may be entitled to become an Irish citizen. You will need to apply have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register. However, whether your application is successful will depend on whether the parent through whom you derive Irish citizenship had himself or herself become an Irish citizen by being registered in the Foreign Births Register before you were born.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->So, if your non-Ireland born parent who descends from an Irish national (your Grandfather, and you *will* need his baptismal or long form birth cert) is not registered _before_ your birth, sorry, but you remain solely American.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Out of curiosity, how can Hubby's firm pay FICA without Hubby's 50% contribution? That, in and of itself, constitutes a US-based employment.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I really must make the observation that you seem to be rushing into this with both eyes closed. Hubby's firm appears willing to either let him carry the can for breaking immigration law and/or it is genuinely oblivious to the legal ramifications of it's employees international activities. Under both scenarios, I strongly urge you obtain professional assistance in ascertaining Hubby's and your statuses in Ireland and countries were Hubby will be discharging his employment duties. Most everywhere, ignorance is no excuse for the law.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->N.B. If you become an Irish national, that event in no manner confers immediate citizenship upon Hubby. He is not entitled to work anywhere in the EU without proper work authorisations. He may, of course, reside with anywhere in the EU with you.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Best of luck to you both.


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## christine10blue (11 Jan 2005)

Hi Max. Thanks again.  Hubby's company bakes buns for MacDonald's and they have 32 bakeries world wide with Us management in most of them, so some of this they know how to do.  The tax part they advised I get a good accountant in Ireland.  My friend who is a CPA here said the company will still take out Social Security funds before paying him in Euros. The tax part for corporations is more complicated than I have knowledge about. I also subscribe to a site Movetoireland.com and just recently on their chat board was coverage about Irish citizenship like my case where it is a grandparent and they seem to get this fine, some things just like here in the US too seem to get done even when it doesn't seem possible.  That site also seems to cover living in Ireland as long as you have proof of income so that you do not become a burden to the state. Hopefully this will work out and when I am in tullamore the end of January or early February i will certainly contact an accountant.


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## Max Hopper (11 Jan 2005)

If Hubby is paid from the US then he is entitled to contribute to his 401k and accumulate Social Security credits, regardless of what _currency_ wages are paid in (could be Turkish lira and you would need a trolley to go to the market!)<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Being paid from the US, without benefit of an Ireland-based subsidiary makes Hubby an American businessman working on 90 (tacit) visas. The countries you have named all have agreements with the US State Department about this.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->If I am thinking clearly, the phrases 'proof of income (funds)' and 'burden on the State' come directly from the European Court of Justice in the Chen v Home Office (UK), wherein Ms. Chen (a Chinese national) won the right to remain _anywhere_ in the EU to care for her Irish-born child provided the aforementioned conditions were complied with.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Not to dissuade you, but you might be dipping your toe into murky waters here by using unsubstantiated, third-hand urban legends.


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## christine10blue (12 Jan 2005)

Thanks again Max.  I called the Irish consulate in San Francisco today. Left voice mail and will hopefully hear from them within a couple of days and they can also "shed" light on all of this. You have certainly provided information and places to continue with and I do appreciate. Thanks again without your help many questions and procedures would have not been completed.


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## christine10blue (12 Jan 2005)

Update: the consulate returned my call and they are sending the papers for Irish citizenship.  They say the process takes 10-12 months and I qualify.  All that is required is a grandparent is born in Ireland and providing a copy of a birth certificate or letter that one could not be found with also a copy of my mother's and my birth certificate which I do have copies of.  So if I can get the Dept of Justice to allow me to stay for one year then when I have citizenship I can stay. Now just to get the accounting part straight and I am confident there are very knowledgeable accountants in Ireland that can handle that such as the one your recommended Max. Thanks again.


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## Max Hopper (12 Jan 2005)

, not trying to dampen your enthusiasm here, but the Minister for Justice has no control over the An Garda Síochána at points of entry into Ireland (Immigration). AFAIK, you and Hubby will be permitted to remain in Ireland up to 90 days. Then you must leave for another country (or the USA). Most airlines check that you possess the appropriate visa/permit to return to Ireland. The possession of an _return portion_ of a ticket to the USA is usually sufficient.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->You write that the Irish Consulate says you _qualify_. That means your Mother was registered as a Foreign Birth *before* you were born (review ). If this correct then you only need register as a Foreign Birth. If Mam is not an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, your application might prove unsuccessful.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Feel free to P_rivate_ M_essage_ me.


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## christine10blue (13 Jan 2005)

Max how do I e-mail you directly ?  Thanks.


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## Max Hopper (13 Jan 2005)

Click on my name (under *Author*) or .


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## christine10blue (14 Jan 2005)

Hi Max, I went to EZ board, but I am not a paid subscriber, so don't seem to be able to reach you.  I know we have have gotten off subject here.  Can I just post my E-mail address at work  on this board and then you send to me there?  I don't mind if others see my actual e-mail and I would never pass yours own to any one.  My work e-mail is very secure as I work for a large medical company. Thanks


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## Max Hopper (14 Jan 2005)

, I have sent you an ezboard message. Check your .


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## christine10blue (15 Jan 2005)

Max, I can't seem to get on EZ Board...I haven't used it before.  When I try to subscribe (I've not paid and money to them) it tells me I am already a member, then when I try to log in it tells me to subscribe.  Any suggestions? Thanks again


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## rainyday (15 Jan 2005)

> then when I try to log in it tells me to subscribe


Hi Christine - Can you be more specific about exactly what message you see when you log in?


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## christine10blue (15 Jan 2005)

Thank you Rainyday. when I hit the login button and type Christine10blue and my password(as above to send this) it reads unrecognized username or e-mail address.  I thought perhaps I was not registered, but when I try that it tells me I am registered.  I even had an e-mail sent to me at work to verify.  I am about to leave work now and will be back in Monday so any suggestions you have I will try then.  Thanks much


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jan 2005)

Hi christine

EZBoard is the hosting service which Askaboutmoney uses. 
Askaboutmoney is just one board hosted by EZBoard.

You can be a global user which allows you access to most ezboards around the World. Or you can be a local user to Askaboutmoney only.

You are a local user. Don't bother trying to register with EZBoard itself. You should be able to read your private messages within Askaboutmoney. You are logged in as you would not be able to post otherwise. 

The Private Messaging facility should be available to you. It is not email as such. You can send a message to Max Hopper and he can respond to you, but it's not using email. It stays within the EZBoard system, so you won't know who Max Hopper is and he won't know who you are. 

On the top right hand side of the page you should see a piece of text saying   Logged in as christine......| ezInbox(1)

just click on ezInbox and you see the message from Max

Brendan


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## christine10blue (18 Jan 2005)

Thanks again , but EZBoard keeps telling I am unrecognized.  Already "a pain in the butt American".  My hubby would say it's because I am blonde !!!!  The girl next to me a work is much more computer literate than me and she can't get it either. Any other suggestions or Max maybe we could move to another more general site? Thanks Burgessbrebdan too.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Jan 2005)

Christine

How are you able to post if EZboard doesn't recognize you? What is the problem? Don't mind the brunette next to you. Leave it to Max.

Brendan


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## christine10blue (18 Jan 2005)

Brendan that is what I would like to know too, it has become "the $64,000 Question"  (old tv show). Could I tell you my password, or do you somehow have access to that? Or Max perhaps we could just continue on another topic since we are past PRSA's.  Thanks again.
Christine


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## Max Hopper (18 Jan 2005)

Ahh! Sounds as if the propeller heads in  workplace have fiddled the cookie and/or trusted site mechanism(s) for 'net browsers on the corporate platform.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> turned up whilst searching the .


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## ClubMan (18 Jan 2005)

*Any other suggestions or Max maybe we could move to another more general site?*

We've never had contributers elope together before - another _AAM_ first perhaps?


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Jan 2005)

hI Christine

I don't have access to your password. But if you trust me with it... you can email it to Brendan7@gmail.com and I will try to log on. 

But it looks as if Max has found the answer. Actually, it's more like he has found the question as the link just brings me to a search page. 

Brendan


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## Max Hopper (19 Jan 2005)

,<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> turned up whilst searching the *ezboard Support area*.


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Jan 2005)

Sorry Christine

My email address is actually burgess7 , rather than brendan7.

You may need to change your password.

Brendan


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## christine10blue (20 Jan 2005)

Well gentlemen I was out  ill with a "bug". Could be computer at work, I am not at liberty to make changes if that is needed. So Brendan I do trust you with my password and will send it via e-mail to you. Ah ha, Max & I elope?  I am sure my hubby will say he can gladly have me , can't even get a simple e-mail to work.....


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## christine10blue (20 Jan 2005)

*What is it you are trying to do*

Hi christine

Yes. I have managed to log in successfully. Here is the list of logged in users from the bottom of the screen:

WeAreBlueWeAreWhite · Roytheboyo · okidoki987 · Dearg Doom · Natchessmen · EAMONN66 · SolarSpectre · askingaboutbusiness · christine10blue · rant365 

But I am still confused. You are able to post, so what else is it you want to do? 

If there is a problem, then I suspect it is the security at your workplace. Try from an internet cafe or from a home pc.

Brendan


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## christine10blue (21 Jan 2005)

Thanks for your help Brendan, but I still can't log on so it must be computer at work.  I will try from home tonight and hopefully that will work.


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## Marion (21 Jan 2005)

Christina10Blue, as a _local user_ you cannot log on to the EZboard home page.

When you log on to Askaboutmoney (as you do to post messages) the front page showing all the forums should be visible to you.

On the right-hand side of the page you should see "Logged in as Christina10blue". Underneath this do you see the word *ezInbox*?

If so, click on the link and you have access to your mail box within Askaboutmoney. 

Marion :hat


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## christine10blue (21 Jan 2005)

Marion.....that works....thank you....I was trying to log in to EXBoard directly,,,,now I must hurry and go to Max !!!!!


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