# Tourist giving birth in Ireland



## fatima001 (11 Feb 2019)

Hello everyone,
I wanted to ask what happens of a tourist couple gives birth in Ireland. Does the government of Ireland grant such babies Irish passport and citizenship? 
It would be a great help if anyone guides or inform me about the laws... thanks a lot.


----------



## odyssey06 (11 Feb 2019)

No, not since 2004. Children born in Ireland are only entitled to automatic citizenship if at least one of their parents is a citizen or is entitled to be.


----------



## fatima001 (11 Feb 2019)

fatima001 said:


> Hello everyone,
> I wanted to ask what happens of a tourist couple gives birth in Ireland. Does the government of Ireland grant such babies Irish passport and citizenship?
> It would be a great help if anyone guides or inform me about the laws... thanks a lot.





fatima001 said:


> Hello everyone,
> I wanted to ask what happens of a tourist couple gives birth in Ireland. Does the government of Ireland grant such babies Irish passport and citizenship?
> It would be a great help if anyone guides or inform me about the laws... thanks a lot.





odyssey06 said:


> No, not since 2004. Children born in Ireland are only entitled to automatic citizenship if at least one of their parents is a citizen or is entitled to be.


Well how are we supposed to get Irish citizenship because I am an Indian women and my husband is Pakistani we cannot give birth in our homeland because of indo-pak disputes and we dont want our child to have Indian or Pakistani citizenship because I cannot move to Pakistan and my husband cannot come to India because of the law... so we want to choose a third country and live in a peaceful country as family together with one citizenship.


----------



## bleary (11 Feb 2019)

This right to a passport was removed in 2004 partly due to the risk of mother's arriving to hospitals in labour without any medical support or history endangering mother and child.
I guess the answer is to move to somewhere you have a right of residence and work towards citizenship ?


----------



## Leo (11 Feb 2019)

fatima001 said:


> Well how are we supposed to get Irish citizenship



Same as any other non-Irish or EU national, you would need to go through that naturalisation process. That would require you living here for more than 5 years during which time you and your husband would need to be providing for the needs of your family. Depending on your qualifications, you or your husband might qualify for a critical skills visa which would simplify the process if you can find an employer willing to do their part to facilitate.


----------



## Steven Barrett (11 Feb 2019)

bleary said:


> This right to a passport was removed in 2004 partly due to the risk of mother's arriving to hospitals in labour without any medical support or history endangering mother and child.
> I guess the answer is to move to somewhere you have a right of residence and work towards citizenship ?



The biggest reason for the referendum was because of exactly what the OP has titled was thinking of doing. 

As Leo has said, there are processes that you can go through. The Irish economy are crying out for workers at the moment. Details on the process can be found here


----------



## bill_cash (11 Feb 2019)

This thread goes to show how important the 2004 referendum was and the danger of fools trying to weaken/remove it.


----------



## Jim2007 (11 Feb 2019)

fatima001 said:


> Well how are we supposed to get Irish citizenship because I am an Indian women and my husband is Pakistani we cannot give birth in our homeland because of indo-pak disputes and we dont want our child to have Indian or Pakistani citizenship because I cannot move to Pakistan and my husband cannot come to India because of the law... so we want to choose a third country and live in a peaceful country as family together with one citizenship.



You need to do a lot more research on this.  In addition to what other posters have said here, you should be aware that it is unlikely that you will be allowed to board a plane to Europe in the late stages of pregnancy unless you can show that you have sufficient funds to cover all medical costs.


----------



## fatima001 (11 Feb 2019)

Thank you everyone for the information. Yes ofcourse we will gather sufficient funds for medical care. We just want to find a right (peaceful) country which gives nationality easily and is safe to stay in future.


----------



## Thirsty (11 Feb 2019)

fatima001 said:


> ...because I cannot move to Pakistan and my husband cannot come to India because of the law...


not to be unecessarily inquisitive, but a fair degree of proximity is needed to achieve pregnancy? 

In any event, if you are educated / qualified / skilled, there is a high demand here; go through the proper channels and you have every chance of getting what you want.


----------



## fatima001 (11 Feb 2019)

Yes we are searching for job as well, and so I also wanted to ask that Is annual salary of 27,000 euro worth for moving to Ireland?


----------



## odyssey06 (11 Feb 2019)

fatima001 said:


> Yes we are searching for job as well, and so I also wanted to ask that Is annual salary of 27,000 euro worth for moving to Ireland?



No, that is a low \ starter salary, especially for Dublin and a non EU citizen will not be offered work permit for Ireland at that salary except in limited circumstances:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/migrant_workers/employment_permits/work_permits.html


----------



## cremeegg (11 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> No, not since 2004. Children born in Ireland are only entitled to automatic citizenship if at least one of their parents is a citizen or is entitled to be.



Not exactly.

Before the referendum, a *CHILD* born in Ireland was entitled to Irish citizenship in their own right without reference to the citizenship, residence or any other matter relating to the parents. 

After the referendum and McDowells law a child can obtain Irish citizenship if the *THE PARENTS* fulfil certain conditions.

One of which may be of interest to the OP

A person born on the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 is automatically an Irish citizen if he or she is not entitled to the citizenship of any other country. Section 6(3) of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts_ 2004_.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (12 Feb 2019)

Most countries with birthright citizenship are in north and south America.


----------



## Buddyboy (12 Feb 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Most countries with birthright citizenship are in north and south America.



Yes, but the OP wanted a "peaceful" country


----------



## Purple (13 Feb 2019)

Irish people living in other countries illegally are "undocumented".
People living here illegally are "illegal immigrants" (especially if they have dark skin). 
We are excellent at hypocrisy.


----------



## bill_cash (13 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> Irish people living in other countries illegally are "undocumented".
> People living here illegally are "illegal immigrants" (especially if they have dark skin).
> We are excellent at hypocrisy.



We naturally favour our own (rightfully so).
Both groups are illegal and should be deported. Dogooders and fools stopping this will become a costly liability to the state when the population of Africa goes from 1 to 4 billion in this century.


----------



## Purple (13 Feb 2019)

bill_cash said:


> We naturally favour our own (rightfully so).


When you say "our own" do you mean all Irish citizens, regardless of their country of birth, everyone born here regardless of citizenship or just citizens born here to Irish citizens?



bill_cash said:


> when the population of Africa goes from 1 to 4 billion in this century.


Where'd you get that from?
The forecasts I've read say that it will increase in Africa by 1.3 billion by 2050 but the total  global population will stabilise by 2100 and may start to decline (from a peak of around 9 billion).


----------



## bill_cash (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> When you say "our own" do you mean all Irish citizens, regardless of their country of birth, everyone born here regardless of citizenship or just citizens born here to Irish citizens?



From an Irish states perspective the answer would be all Irish citizens. Personally I and most people know exactly who our own are without the need to reference a bit of paper.



Purple said:


> Where'd you get that from?
> The forecasts I've read say that it will increase in Africa by 1.3 billion by 2050 but the total  global population will stabilise by 2100 and may start to decline (from a peak of around 9 billion).



Can't post a link because of my post count but google: 

population-growth-africans-will-be-a-third-of-all-people-on-earth-by-2100

Or "the world's most important graph" by Steve Sailer.

Of course the problem is 4 billion probably won't live/stay in Africa. Migratory pressure will build up immensely over the coming decades and countries like Ireland will have existential decisions to make.


----------



## odyssey06 (14 Feb 2019)

Not the first or last time this question has popped up...
_"The poor old Duke of Wellington! what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse." _
 - Daniel O'Connell, in a speech (16 October 1843)

Currently, the law tallies with that, being born in Ireland does not necessarily make you Irish. 
And I should not dare to disagree with both O'Connell and Wellington on this one.


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

bill_cash said:


> Personally I and most people know exactly who our own are without the need to reference a bit of paper.


 I think my view of who our own are may vary from yours.



bill_cash said:


> Of course the problem is 4 billion probably won't live/stay in Africa. Migratory pressure will build up immensely over the coming decades and countries like Ireland will have existential decisions to make.


 Most people are proud of the job our Naval service does in the Mediterranean rescuing migrants. I wonder if they had to take the migrants they picked up back to Ireland instead of Italy and Greece would Irish people still be happy. Considering our history we are the last people on earth who should complain about immigrants and migrants. 
Maybe if we don't want migrants in Europe we should trade with them fairly and stop starting wars in their countries.


----------



## Leo (14 Feb 2019)

bill_cash said:


> know exactly who our own are without the need to reference a bit of paper.



Said every white supremacist ever....


----------



## Steven Barrett (14 Feb 2019)

We we can cross Declan Rice off the list of Irishmen


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

SBarrett said:


> We we can cross Declan Rice off the list of Irishmen


Well at least we can take the moral high ground because it's not as if we've done exactly the same thing in reverse.... oh, wait...


----------



## Leo (14 Feb 2019)

SBarrett said:


> We we can cross Declan Rice off the list of Irishmen



But only after you check his paperwork!!


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> I think my view of who our own are may vary from yours.
> 
> Most people are proud of the job our Naval service does in the Mediterranean rescuing migrants. I wonder if they had to take the migrants they picked up back to Ireland instead of Italy and Greece would Irish people still be happy. Considering our history we are the last people on earth who should complain about immigrants and migrants.
> Maybe if we don't want migrants in Europe we should trade with them fairly and stop starting wars in their countries.


WE have lots of Fatima001 and her Husband in Ireland already Working in low Income jobs ,The  people indrectly complaining about out tax system supporting them on low Income is?,


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

First they take our potatoes, now they take our rice...


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> First they take our potatoes, now they take our rice...


And I don't think it is fair  high yielding crops owners should share

 Sure it was all down to myself nothing got to do with luck the high yields is because of ME , I should be allowed to let it rot rather than share my good fortune,
The top 20% with high yields is all because of ME,  ME ,ME ,
Now who do the top 20% in Ireland Sound like, If you are having trouble go back 170 years,


----------



## john luc (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> I think my view of who our own are may vary from yours.
> 
> Most people are proud of the job our Naval service does in the Mediterranean rescuing migrants. I wonder if they had to take the migrants they picked up back to Ireland instead of Italy and Greece would Irish people still be happy. Considering our history we are the last people on earth who should complain about immigrants and migrants.
> Maybe if we don't want migrants in Europe we should trade with them fairly and stop starting wars in their countries.


What's this "we" business. We, don't start wars nor do we invade other country's


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> What's this "we" business. We, don't start wars nor do we invade other country's


WE starved our own most of the high Income people  (not them all)  chose not to help it was all the poorer peoples own fault,
 170 year ago the top income people sent  food out of the Ireland or fed it to cattle rather than people,
Looking back on some posts the same people are still around ?,


----------



## Leo (14 Feb 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> WE have lots of Fatima001 and her Husband in Ireland already Working in low Income jobs



We have many more employed on Critical Skills visas earning high income (generally €60k+ except for some specific cases with significant shortages here where it's €30k+) and paying very high levels of income and other taxes subsidising 'our own'.


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> What's this "we" business. We, don't start wars nor do we invade other country's


"We" back the Common Agriculture Policy which kills tens of thousands, impoverishes millions and contributes to economic instability and war. 
"We" have hid behind the apron strings of NATO for 70 years allowing other countries to spend their money and risk their lived to keep us free.
"We" might not start the wars but we benefit greatly from them.


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> 170 year ago the top income people sent  food out of the Ireland or fed it to cattle rather than people,
> Looking back on some posts the same people are still around ?,


In fairness the top income people now are the net contributors who actually pay for everything. We've gone from one extreme to the other.


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> In fairness the top income people now are the net contributors who actually pay for everything. We've gone from one extreme to the other.


A 170 year old quote,so , the top income people would be nothing if the did not have people on lower incomes creating wealth , When you get a chance look out for the people in most cases who pay your wages,

If you look at the Nurses strike the top income people were about as useful as a ash tray on a motor bike on there own,


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

Leo said:


> We have many more employed on Critical Skills visas earning high income (generally €60k+ except for some specific cases with significant shortages here where it's €30k+) and paying very high levels of income and other taxes subsidising 'our own'.


I know you will check it out so come back when you do ,
The last few times we used Critical Skills visas it was for people working in our meat factories/ agri sector check it out for yourself,

They have now dropped the threshold to 22K,

If you look as Brexit  Wealth loss from these sectors will affect us all,


----------



## john luc (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> "We" back the Common Agriculture Policy which kills tens of thousands, impoverishes millions and contributes to economic instability and war.
> "We" have hid behind the apron strings of NATO for 70 years allowing other countries to spend their money and risk their lived to keep us free.
> "We" might not start the wars but we benefit greatly from them.


"We" have no influence on what NATO do and if they needed to invade us to say stop some enemy doing so they would. We are a small insignificant player on the world scene and have a limited ability to have our views heard despite what some might think. When you are a small country you learn to box clever or you get stomped on


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> "We" have no influence on what NATO do and if they needed to invade us to say stop some enemy doing so they would. We are a small insignificant player on the world scene and have a limited ability to have our views heard despite what some might think. When you are a small country you learn to box clever or you get stomped on


The strange thing some used to post the were from uk living in Ireland so  they moved to hide behind NATO apron strings,


----------



## Opus2018 (14 Feb 2019)

Hi bill_cash,

Interesting choice of sources - you're (along with the UN to be fair) assuming the growth rate to 2050 continues for the remainder of the century.  I think this is a little pessimistic for a few reasons. 

Three things to point out - 

1) It's highly likely that fertility rates will continue to drop and equally likely to accelerate due to improved health care world wide 
2) Higher levels of GDP in African countries is also likely to result in more people staying at home to avail of better economic opportunities  and 
3) India, Pakistan, the US and Indonesia were citied as significant contributors to population growth  - the rest were from Africa to be fair Nigeria being a case in point

https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2017.html

I would also point out that Europe does need to consider taking in migrants in anyway as to be blunt the average fertility rate is 1.6 which means we are effectively below a steady state population.  You might think about what impact that will have in terms of pensions, access to services etc.  Of course, if you can raise the average fertility rate to around 2.1 in Europe, then that's a different question.

And no, I'm not advocating a free for all in terms of migration!! I am pointing out that we will need some, but then it might also help to bring stability to other regions in the world so that people don't feel to have to leave...

Best,

Opus 2018


----------



## Opus2018 (14 Feb 2019)

We also produce quite a bit of the weapons infrastructure too if you took a look at it (IT systems etc.)

Purple is quite right - we are not blameless here!


----------



## Leo (14 Feb 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> The last few times we used Critical Skills visas it was for people working in our meat factories/ agri sector check it out for yourself,



The visas offered to meat factory workers do not fall under the Critical Skills program. That's a separate pilot program that aims to address critical shortages in low skilled sectors.


----------



## odyssey06 (14 Feb 2019)

Opus2018 said:


> And no, I'm not advocating a free for all in terms of migration!! I am pointing out that we will need some, but then it might also help to bring stability to other regions in the world so that people don't feel to have to leave...



Plus a free for all is unlikely to help the other regions in the long run, if we keep sweeping up all their trained professionals \ middle classes.


----------



## RETIRED2017 (14 Feb 2019)

Leo said:


> The visas offered to meat factory workers do not fall under the Critical Skills program. That's a separate pilot program that aims to address critical shortages in low skilled sectors.


you are not fully up to date they are now allowed under the Critical Skills program ,


----------



## Leo (14 Feb 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> you are not fully up to date they are now allowed under the Critical Skills program ,



Unless new regs have been published since March of last year, they're not. If they have, perhaps you could provide a link to them, otherwise my understanding remains that meat processors continue to fall under the quota system set out in Employment Permits Regulations 2017.


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> you are not fully up to date they are now allowed under the Critical Skills program ,


Are you sure?


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

Opus2018 said:


> We also produce quite a bit of the weapons infrastructure too if you took a look at it (IT systems etc.)
> 
> Purple is quite right - we are not blameless here!


Don't forget the Rendition flights that used to land here and, of course, half of the worlds aircraft are leased and half of them are leased through Ireland so there's a good chance some of the renditioning was done in Irish aircraft.

Oh, and we build our economy on stealing taxes from other countries, are we allowed to say that?


----------



## john luc (14 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> Don't forget the REndition flights that used to land here and, of course, half of the worlds aircraft are leased and half of them are leased through Ireland so there's a good chance some of the renditioning was done in Irish aircraft.
> 
> Oh, and we build our economy on stealing taxes from other countries, are we allowed to say that?


My god but do you hate us,including yourself as well


----------



## Purple (14 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> My god but do you hate us,including yourself as well


What on earth are you talking about?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (14 Feb 2019)

It seems to me that the original question has been answered 

Brendan


----------

