# Brother refusing to vacate house left to four of us in my father's will



## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

Hi all,

My father passed away recently and left his entire estate to myself and my 3 brothers.

The will states that the solicitor is the executor of the will and that all my fathers assets are to be realised into cash and divided equally between the 4 of us.

We all had moved out of the family home years ago but one of my brothers moved back in to the house 4 or 5 years ago and lived with our Dad. He did look after him for the last year or so but never paid any rent or bills since he moved back in. He thought that he would be left the house because he was living at home and was quite shocked when he read the will. He is now being quite difficult by refusing to let valuers in the value the house for probate purposes and not sending in required information to the solicitor etc.

Myself and my 2 bothers who don’t live at home want to sell the house, we all have mortgages and would like to pay them off with the proceeds. My brother who lives in the house would be able to buy his own place with the proceeds with little or no mortgage but insists that he is staying in the house.

Can anyone advise on what rights the brother who lives in the house would have? Also the fact that it says in the will that the all assets have to be sold and the proceeds then be dived up equally, does this mean that the house has to be sold no matter what my brother thinks?

Many thanks in advance.


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## ClubMan (20 Aug 2021)

Isn't all this the solicitor's responsibility to sort out in their role as executor? What have they said about all this?


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> Isn't all this the solicitor's responsibility to sort out in their role as executor? What have they said about all this?


Thanks for the reply.

That’s what I thought, that it’s his responsibility as executor to sort stuff like that out.

He’s hard to get hold of, it takes a few phone calls and emails before you get a reply. We last spoke about 3 weeks ago to ask who was going to arrange for the house to be valued. He asked us to arrange the valuations. I haven’t got a hold of him yet to inform him how the live at home brother is behaving.


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## noproblem (20 Aug 2021)

The so called "live at home" brother can buy the house at an agreed price, or he will have to see the house sold on the open market. Ask him what part of that he doesn't understand? I'm being crude and blunt in this, but at the end of the day you'll see it's the way it will end up. Solicitor will have to get the finger out eventually, but at the same time I can understand why he's doing what he's doing for now. Good luck with it.


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## Johnno75 (20 Aug 2021)

This kind of stuff really gets my goat. The solicitor will undoubtedly be charging a handsome fee for his having getting himself appointed Executor.

Tell the Executor that he needs the over-holding issue involving your brother sorted. It’s not good enough that he is difficult to get hold of.

It is the Executor’s job to arrange valuations etc. He is trying to get you to do his job for him.

Your brother is a trespasser and needs to be removed by the executor.

Unless you make your views firmly known to the Executor, this will get strung out over years.

My grandmother named me as her residuary legatee a few decades ago in her will and nominated her Solicitor as executor. He did a poor job, it took him 7 years to administer a straightforward estate and only acted when I threatened a complaint. Also, he tried to get me to arrange maps etc until I pointed out to him - in writing - that this was his job.


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

noproblem said:


> The so called "live at home" brother can buy the house at an agreed price, or he will have to see the house sold on the open market. Ask him what part of that he doesn't understand? I'm being crude and blunt in this, but at the end of the day you'll see it's the way it will end up. Solicitor will have to get the finger out eventually, but at the same time I can understand why he's doing what he's doing for now. Good luck with it.


That’s been mentioned to him but for some reason he has no savings even though he’s paid no rent or bills for the last 5 years and he wouldn’t get a mortgage for the amount needed to buy the house. He’s just being awkward and unreasonable, I don’t want things to get ugly but you’re probably right about that’s how it will go.


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

Johnno75 said:


> This kind of stuff really gets my goat. The solicitor will undoubtedly be charging a handsome fee for his having getting himself appointed Executor.
> 
> Tell the Executor that he needs the over-holding issue involving your brother sorted. It’s not good enough that he is difficult to get hold of.
> 
> ...


It’s beginning to annoy me too now at this stage by his lack of responsiveness and availability.

I was unsure of his exact role as executor so thanks for clarifying what he should be doing. We will be much firmer with him going forward. I don’t want this to be a long drawn out thing, certainly not 7 years!


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## ClubMan (20 Aug 2021)

Dana123 said:


> I was unsure of his exact role as executor








						Dealing with a deceased person’s money and property
					

Find out about the steps involved in taking out probate or letters of administration in Ireland.




					www.citizensinformation.ie


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

Thanks ClubMan


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## Thirsty (20 Aug 2021)

Dana123 said:


> Also the fact that it says in the will that the all assets have to be sold and the proceeds then be dived up equally, does this mean that the house has to be sold no matter what my brother thinks?


I'm sorry for your loss.

Simple answer, yes.

Edit to add - it would be far quicker  cheaper & easier to get the family together to talk to resident brother.

Less references to free accomodation and more thank you for taking such good care of Dad over the last years might go a long way.

You might also like to tot up the cost of nursing home fees & see how much that would have eaten into the estate - your brother has likely saved you a chunk of change as well as caring for your father.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Edit to add - it would be far quicker cheaper & easier to get the family together to talk to resident brother.
> 
> Less references to free accomodation and more thank you for taking such good care of Dad over the last years might go a long way.


Agree.

I've been there. It took the best part of two years to get a relative out in the same circumstances.

You have to hold your nose and do a lot of negotiating. You have to use carrot more than stick.

Only go the legal route if there is no hope of sorting it out personally anymore.


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> I'm sorry for your loss.
> 
> Simple answer, yes.
> 
> ...



Thanks Thirsty.

We have had a few sit down chats with him and explained that everyone will be able to have their own house with little or no mortgage etc but he can’t seem to see that everyone benefits with the sale of the house.

Also we are all appreciative that he lived with our Dad for the last year or so but thankfully he was never at a stage where he needed much care.


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## Dana123 (20 Aug 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Agree.
> 
> I've been there. It took the best part of two years to get a relative out in the same circumstances.
> 
> ...


Some good advice, thanks.

None of us want to go down the legal route, nobody wins. Hopefully it won’t come to that.


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## Pinoy adventure (21 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> I'm sorry for your loss.
> 
> Simple answer, yes.
> 
> ...



Thirsty surely there could/should be some sort of reduction for the live in brother if he chose too buy the siblings out since he saved them a good chuck of money by keeping the father at home.

The live in brother might feel he deserves more than the others as he lived/took care of the father over the x amount of time.

1 person does 90% of the caring while the person doing the 10% or less gets the same amount of inheritance seems unfair


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

From the deceased parents point of view (and probably true for most parents), the sale of the house & dividing equally was likely the cleanest & simplest solution.

I would agree that if I were in the OPs shoes, I would be looking to see what could be done to better facilitate a good outcome for everyone.

If that means each sibling taking a small cut to in favour of the resident sibling, then do it. 

However, my reading of the tone and content of the OPs posts (and in charity I have to point out that my reading may be wrong); is that there is a lower level of understanding of what it meant to the family, and to the parent, to have someone living full time at home with their parent.

Whilst everyone has lost their parent, the resident sibling will also lose their home. I believe a bit of empathy will go a long way to resolve this.


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## ClubMan (21 Aug 2021)

Pinoy adventure said:


> Thirsty surely there could/should be some sort of reduction for the live in brother if he chose too buy the siblings out since he saved them a good chuck of money by keeping the father at home.
> 
> The live in brother might feel he deserves more than the others as he lived/took care of the father over the x amount of time.
> 
> 1 person does 90% of the caring while the person doing the 10% or less gets the same amount of inheritance seems unfair


The will says to liquidate all assets and divide the money equally between the four children. The executor has a legal obligation to ensure that the deceased's wishes are carried out. The executor, never mind anybody else, can't do something else simply because they think it's "fairer". If somebody really thinks that there's something wrong with the will and how it deals with the estate then they can challenge the will.


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> The will says to liquidate all assets and divide the money equally between the four children. The executor has a legal obligation to ensure that the deceased's wishes are carried out. The executor, never mind anybody else, can't do something else simply because they think it's "fairer".


No one has suggested the will is invalid; nor that it should be set aside.

The siblings are perfectly within their rights to pay a sum of money to the resident sibling if they wish to do so.


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## Pinoy adventure (21 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> The will says to liquidate all assets and divide the money equally between the four children. The executor has a legal obligation to ensure that the deceased's wishes are carried out. The executor, never mind anybody else, can't do something else simply because they think it's "fairer". If somebody really thinks that there's something wrong with the will and how it deals with the estate then they can challenge the will.



Clubman what if 1 sibling wanted too buy the others out ? Does the will state who the house should be sold too ? If not any of the siblings can buy it from the rest of them.


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## ClubMan (21 Aug 2021)

Pinoy adventure said:


> Clubman what if 1 sibling wanted too buy the others out ? Does the will state who the house should be sold too ? If not any of the siblings can buy it from the rest of them.


I don't know.
I haven't seen the will.
The executor can't ignore it though especially not because somebody "feels he deserves more".
My understanding is that the executor also has a duty to get fair market value for any assets that are being liquidated and not sell them at a discount to anybody.
Yes, of course the other siblings could gift the brother something *after* the will has been done and dusted but that's irrelevant to the executor's task and responsibilities.


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> ...that's irrelevant to the executor's task and responsibilities


Indeed; but not irrelevant to resolving the family situation.

The law is a blunt instrument; when you use it as a bludgeon everyone gets hurt.


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## ClubMan (21 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Indeed; but not irrelevant to resolving the family situation.
> 
> The law is a blunt instrument; when you use it as a bludgeon everyone gets hurt.


Let the executor carry out the deceased's wishes as required by law.
Let the siblings do their own deal after the fact to compensate the carer brother if they want.
I'm not sure why others want to over think and complicate matters.
Life doesn't have to be a soap opera.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2021)

If there were no dispute and if all the brothers got along well, they would probably agree to the sale of the house at a reasonable price to the 4th brother.   They would cooperate to make that happen. 

But it sounds as if the 4th brother has soured everything so they should not facilitate him. 

Brendan


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If there were no dispute and if all the brothers got along well, they would probably agree to the sale of the house at a reasonable price to the 4th brother.   They would cooperate to make that happen.
> 
> But it sounds as if the 4th brother has soured everything so they should not facilitate him.
> 
> Brendan


What would your proposal be to the OP then?


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> Let the executor carry out the deceased's wishes as required by law.


If you read the OP, that is where we started from.


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## Pinoy adventure (21 Aug 2021)

With a will being legal is there any comeback on the executor if the will is not disturbuted according to the will ??
Let's say 3 siblings agree too sell too sibling 4,would there be any recourse on the executor for an agreement of this nature ?? 
With a fair market value achieved so nobody is down money.


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## Dana123 (21 Aug 2021)

We all got on well up until recently, which is a shame because you often hear of family’s falling out over a will and I never thought it would happen to our family.

Even if we all gave the live at home brother a discount on our share for him to buy the house he would not be able to and would need a big mortgage to be able to buy the house from us. And he is unwilling to even explore the option to get a mortgage to see how much he could borrow. We have explained to him that if the house is sold that we all could all be in a position to buy a house each or pay off the mortgages for those of us who already have a house, which to me seems very fair. But the live at home brother doesn’t want to compromise and just wants the family home.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> What would your proposal be to the OP then?



I was responding to the people who said that an Executor must follow the will. Of course, he does but he can reach agreement with the beneficiaries on the sale of the house. 

Unfortunately, if the brother insists on staying, the Executor must take legal action to remove him and seek an order from the Court that the legal costs will be taken out of his share. 

Brendan


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> ..legal action to remove him and seek an order from the Court..


And in order to avoid that outcome, which is of zero benefit to anyone in the family; I believe the siblings would do well to seek an alternative.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2021)

But they have and he has refused to engage. His bottom line is that he is staying in the house.

He is leaving the Executor with no alternative.

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko (21 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> And in order to avoid that outcome, which is of zero benefit to anyone in the family; I believe the siblings would do well to seek an alternative.


How is it of zero benefit to anyone in the family? The brother is a clown and will always be a clown. He gets removed from the property, and the others get their share of the proceeds, whereas the idiot brother loses a sizeable chunk of his share through legal fees. Sounds like a sizeable benefit to the others in that they get to pay down their mortgages and the troublemaker learns a painful lesson. A rare ‘win-win’. It’s not like there isn’t already acrimony. People like the brother prey on the weakness of others; so you bury them.


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

@Gordon Gekko -

In much the same way that you have passed judgement on someone who is only a third party on this thread.

 I can only deduce from your post that money is of greater value to you than family.


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## Thirsty (21 Aug 2021)

Dana123 said:


> ...brother doesn’t want to compromise and just wants the family home.


Clearly that isn't possible if he can't raise a mortgage to buy out your share.

Even with the best will in the world (and your Solicitor doesn't sound the speediest) it can easily take a year to get Probate & the house can't be sold until then.

You don't say how long it is since your father passed away, or why your brother believes he was to be left the house.  Is he the youngest in the family?

If you've previously had a good relationship; then I would say keep talking and more importantly keep listening.


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## Gordon Gekko (21 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> @Gordon Gekko -
> 
> In much the same way that you have passed judgement on someone who is only a third party on this thread.
> 
> I can only deduce from your post that money is of greater value to you than family.


Eh, no.

Have you even read the thread?

The brother is an unreasonable loolah.

Just allow the Executor to apply the law and adhere to the deceased’s wishes.

How is that indicative of “money being of greater value to me than family”? You’re actually describing the brother.

TBH, I find your post both hilarious and offensive in equal measure.


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## peemac (21 Aug 2021)

I'd be getting the solicitor to send a strongly worded letter immediately and commence proceedings within a few weeks.

The shorter it goes on the more chance of reconciliation.

Allow it fester and it will become engrained and there's little chance of return.

Make it that it is the solicitor that is doing the pushing.

Once the brother gets advice from his own solicitor, it will see things move along.


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## Clamball (21 Aug 2021)

Really sorry about your Dad.  

Would you and your two brothers consider giving the stay at home brother say €3K each as a gift from your proceedings once the money has been distributed.  He would be €9K better off and the estate might end up not spending thousands getting him out.

it sounds as if you have all spoken to him several times and the only solution he sees is continuing to live in the house until he is eventually forced to leave.

So lots of
So thankful that you were there for Dad in his last year.
Potentially saved us thousands in nursing home fees
So kind of Dad to let you live there for free for so long
The will was Dads dying wish, really need to honour that.

Basically just don’t mention unreasonable, stubborn, difficult, being a pain, etc, etc.  A smallish financial pain for each of you might save thousands and months and years of it been drawn out.

The solicitor sounds like he is moving slowly so he will take loads of time to move the brother out.  He will probably wait until probate has been granted to put the house on the market. (12-18 months if he gets push back from the brother on supplying details or allowing bills To be paid, valuation to happen or bank statements to be found.  (my brother in law refused to give his pps number because he was still grieving….). The he will write and ask him to leave so the house can be put on the market, maybe 2/3 letters over the next 6 months before he threatens to take him to court to force vacant possession.  So 2-7 years or any time in between.  A few thousand euro to the brother might work wonders!!


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> If you read the OP, that is where we started from.


Not really sure what your point is here?


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## Thirsty (24 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> Not really sure what your point is here?


Didn't think this was difficult to understand. But let me explain in as much detail as I possibly can:

1. OP says that exec is being blocked by resident sibling; not providing information, not allowing valuers access to property etc.



> He is now being quite difficult by refusing to let valuers in the value the house for probate purposes and not sending in required information to the solicitor etc



2. Clubman posts:
"Let the executor carry out the deceased's wishes as required by law."

3. Thirsty says, that is where we started from. Exec is being blocked by resident sibling, see point 1.


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2021)

It's the part of the executor's job/responsibility to sort this blockage out.


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## Lambchops65 (24 Aug 2021)

Sorry for your loss.

Word of advice from someone who's been through the probate process. Call into your solicitor and see him/her face to face. Things tend to move a bit more quickly this way.


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## Dana123 (28 Aug 2021)

Many thanks everyone for their advice and inputs. A face to face meeting with the solicitor is definitely on the cards and also another sit down with the brothers to hopefully reach an amicable agreement.


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