# Missing P60-urgent!!!!



## volda (16 May 2008)

What can be done if one is missing a P60 for a whole tax year due toe mployer neglecting to declare a worker? This has only just come to light by the way - husband was employed from Feb 06 to end June 06 (tax office have record of this) not working from July 06 to September 06 but did NOT claim any benefits and the employed from October 06 onwards(same EMPLOYER) - apparently the employer did not declare him as working until Jan 07 so no P60 was issued to him for that year.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

If he has no _P60 _then he will need to depend on other evidence of income and deductions (if any) - e.g. payslips. If (as I suspect) he doesn't have these either then it may be difficult to vouch for income etc.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

He has NO payslips of course as the employer did not declare him.


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## Graham_07 (16 May 2008)

If he is not reflected in the employers books for 2006 and was, as you say, not declared, then it is unlikely that you can get a P60 without recourse to Revenue investigation of the employer. The threat of such action might provoke action on the employer's part to return proper details of the employment on an amended employers P-35, pay any amounts due and then give the employee a P60.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Why is the _P60 _needed urgently?


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## volda (16 May 2008)

The P60 is needed urgently in order to apply for Unemployment benefit. He has just returned from the Wefare Office and they have told him that nothing can be processed unless he supplies current P45 and P60s for the relevant tax years.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

Graham_07 said:


> If he is not reflected in the employers books for 2006 and was, as you say, not declared, then it is unlikely that you can get a P60 without recourse to Revenue investigation of the employer. The threat of such action might provoke action on the employer's part to return proper details of the employment on an amended employers P-35, pay any amounts due and then give the employee a P60.


 
This has already been done - ex employer has been informed but appears not to care one way or another .Basically he said *Prove it*


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## efm (16 May 2008)

How was he paid? In physical cash or by cheque?  Were the cheques or cash lodged to a bank account?  Can you contact a local councillor or TD to help?


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## volda (16 May 2008)

He was paid in cash.Assuming that his tax and prsi was being paid. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that can confirm he was actually working at the time -he had dealings with many suppliers and signed delivery notes etc during the period he is not *accounted for*


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## Graham_07 (16 May 2008)

Any back year details which shoul dhave been on P60's would already be on file on social welfare computer records. Obviously he is not showing up there on their records and unless you have recorded enough contributions then pay-related benefit cannot be paid. However you might still qualify for social assistance payment ( means-tested) . Explain the situation again to the SW officer. They do come across this and should be able to process some claim. Failing that go to the COmmunity Welfare Officer of the HSE and explain the situation. You might qualify for an interim payment from there.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

Thanks for that info. We are pretty desperate at the moment - I have been filling in forms to NERA and such, which is all very well but when there is literally no money for rent or to buy food then tempers fray -I am getteing extremely stressed!


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## Graham_07 (16 May 2008)

Try not to get stressed, remember the SW office is there to help. Not everyone who goes into them will have all the documentation the SW would like to get. But nonetheless they still have to process the claim on the basis of the best information the claimant can provide. Hope it gets sorted for you.


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## Black Sheep (16 May 2008)

Would you consider contacting the Ombudsman on the basis that you are being  denied your Jb because of the non-payment of employers PRSI. 

In her recent report she highlighted a case where a man was on a reduced rate of pension because an employer had not paid the mans PRSI. The employer was contacted and the record was adjusted which meant that the man got his higher rate of pension


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## bacchus (16 May 2008)

volda said:


> husband was employed from Feb 06 to end June 06 (tax office have record of this) not working from July 06 to September 06 but did NOT claim any benefits and the employed from October 06 onwards(same EMPLOYER)


 
Would a P21 do ? you can request one online at www.ros.ie


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## Graham_07 (16 May 2008)

bacchus said:


> Would a P21 do ? you can request one online at www.ros.ie


 
Unfortunately if the employment was not registered then a P21 will not show the details. The pay & tax on the P21  comes from the employer P-35 returns. Also, in this case it's mostly the Social Welfare payments the SW office is looking for and that data does not show on a P21 even where the P21 otherwise has the employment's pay/tax figures.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

This is all a major pain in the butt.What is one to do? You could be working all year and you would know nothing until your your P60 fails to materialise. 
I have spent ages on the NERA website.
All very well citing that employees are entitled by law to payslips/contracts/holiday pay etc but when push comes to shove and your employer doesn't come up with the goods and threatens dismissal when you query these things, one tends to shut up and do their job, or be without employment. People need to pay their rent and put food on the table, jobs are not easy to come by, and many small employers are taking the mickey. I am getting really fed up.


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

volda said:


> many small employers are taking the mickey.



In fairness it is a bit much to blacken small business in general by attributing blame to the majority for the misdeeds of a small minority.  Fwiw, there are a few employees out there who are not beyond playing the system to their advantage also, eg demanding cash in hand for overtime work.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> In fairness it is a bit much to blacken small business in general by attributing blame to the majority for the misdeeds of a small minority.  Fwiw, there are a few employees out there who are not beyond playing the system to their advantage also, eg demanding cash in hand for overtime work.



I did not say majority or minority -I just know that certain industries ie small restaurants can and do exploit their workers big time. I'm sure that there are emloyees that make demands, but I would say that the employer usually has the upper hand. You don't like it? LEAVE! There are more people looking for work than there are jobs...


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

volda said:


> I did not say majority or minority.



...yes, but you did use the word "many". I stand by my belief that this is often a two-way street.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

volda said:


> I did not say majority or minority -I just know that certain industries ie small restaurants can and do exploit their workers big time. I'm sure that there are emloyees that make demands, but I would say that the employer usually has the upper hand. You don't like it? LEAVE! There are more people looking for work than there are jobs...


Please stick to the point and don't go off topic with rants better suited to _Letting Off Steam_.


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## volda (16 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Please stick to the point and don't go off topic with rants better suited to _Letting Off Steam_.



Thank you


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## volda (28 May 2008)

*Re: Missing P60-urgent!!!!UPDATE*

Righto -update
Have managed to get P60   2006 from ex employer. Hand written, it has details of (we presume) employment from October - December 2006. These are the same details that the tax office do NOT have.

Not included in these figures(ie  pay in respect of previous employment THAT year) which the tax office DO have a record of. I don't know what on earth is going on.
How could I find someone to look over the figures?


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## Graham_07 (29 May 2008)

*Re: Missing P60-urgent!!!!UPDATE*



volda said:


> Righto -update
> Have managed to get P60 2006 from ex employer. Hand written, it has details of (we presume) employment from October - December 2006. These are the same details that the tax office do NOT have.
> 
> Not included in these figures(ie pay in respect of previous employment THAT year) which the tax office DO have a record of. I don't know what on earth is going on.
> How could I find someone to look over the figures?


 
If it has the details of the employment which the tax office did not have then that is the missing piece of information you needed.

P60's do not always show the figures from previous employment. This may be because the most recent employer did not have them i.e. was not provided with them on the previous p45, or because they mislaid them. As long as the tax office have those and can now be given the Oct-Dec details then they (the tax office) can piece together the year. It is now possible that the most recent employer from Oct-Dec is filing a supplementary end-of-year return for 2006 to now declare those details so they will, eventually go on record. In the meantime if you provide them to the tax office it will enable them to balance the year properly.


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## simplyjoe (29 May 2008)

Sounds like a job for a solicitor. Maybe you can get free legal aid to persue the employer. When this happened to a client of mine my client reported the employer to the Revenue. The Revenue carried out an audit on the employer, found nothing and then investigated my client seemingly in a huff as a small piece of information that my client provided in relation to the employer was incorrect. He also reported the employer to SIPTU to persue his CIF pension contributions. Again nothing was proven. This despite the fact that he was employed for 7 years with the employer - unknown to him he was never registered at the tax office. He then appointed a solicitor to enquire into the case and shortly thereafter he received his P60s for each year. The state agencies were absolutely no use to him.


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## volda (29 May 2008)

simplyjoe said:


> Sounds like a job for a solicitor. Maybe you can get free legal aid to persue the employer. When this happened to a client of mine my client reported the employer to the Revenue. The Revenue carried out an audit on the employer, found nothing and then investigated my client seemingly in a huff as a small piece of information that my client provided in relation to the employer was incorrect. He also reported the employer to SIPTU to persue his CIF pension contributions. Again nothing was proven. This despite the fact that he was employed for 7 years with the employer - unknown to him he was never registered at the tax office. He then appointed a solicitor to enquire into the case and shortly thereafter he received his P60s for each year. The state agencies were absolutely no use to him.



All I can say is oh god then. Revenue has been informed already, whether they do anything though is anyones guess.


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