# Creditor Calling to place of work unannounced



## Eoin28 (5 Jun 2020)

I was hoping that someone might be able to give me some guidance on a particular situation that arose for me yesterday.

By way of background. I have recently completed a self build. During the course of the build I had a really good relationship with my local building provider. They guided me, gave me advice etc.. I probably spent 50k+ on various items to support the build.
The building provider (Which is linked to a major umbrella buying group) does not issue electronic invoices so I had to keep on top of dockets etc to keep track of what I was getting. From time to time I noticed some inconsistencies within the monthly bills, and these were picked up and addressed. Coming closer to the end of the build, circa 2k remained to be repaid  - I noticed a couple of items that were incorrect & e-mailed these to the provider. I asked for the bill to be amended to reflect the correct balance. The person I was dealing with the whole way through the build would not give me a call to discuss the items. There was one item within the build that was charged for twice, despite it being already included in a batch of items. The hardware shop disputed this, so I found a what's app message to the person the shop that supported the fact I was over charged. So I basically told them in my e-mail that once that was deducted, I would pay the final €1700 straight away.

So about 6 weeks passed I had no reply until an individual arrived looking for me at my Employers office yesterday.
I work for a retail bank in Ireland, while I don't work in the branch network, I sometime use the local office. The branch manager contacted me advising that a person was looking for me, so she took his number & forwarded it to myself.

Later that afternoon I contacted the person, he was a brother of the hardware shop owner. He said that I was passed to him as a "last resort".  He was quite forceful on the phone & also didn't want to discuss any queries on the bill. To be honest I was quite taken back mainly because I had such a good relationship with the shop & also that I was actually expecting a response to the e-mail I had sent. I really felt that the person was playing on the fact I worked in financial services, however everyone is entitle to call out errors within their bills. I just transferred the funds straight after the call, however I really feel that the store stepped over the line in calling into my employer.

Nothing was disclosed to any staff member within the Branch, however this is a local branch & I never have anyone call looking for me - so everyone was very curious.

My main queries are:

Is there any breach of GDPR in that my details were given to a brother of the owner? (He does not work for the hardware) - Thankfully I was not in the office at the time he called, what was the intention if I had called down to the public area of the branch?

Are creditors allowed to call to a place of employment? Particularly when they have my address / phone numbers / e-mail ? I have never ignored calls / mail.

I really think they jumped the gun.


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## dereko1969 (5 Jun 2020)

OP has contacted the shop querying a double charging and is refusing to pay outstanding money owed due to that fact. Whilst there may be GDPR implications, the main issue is the OP should probably have held firm and not paid the outstanding money owed. I'm fairly certain that any GDPR issues will not actually lead to the OP retrieving the overpaid amount.
OP should call down to the shop and discuss with the owner asking why their query on the double charging was not responded to.


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## Seagull (5 Jun 2020)

I think you made a major error in transferring the money. If there is a dispute over the amount, then they should be working with you to resolve it, not ignoring you. Passing on your details to the brother would be a breach unless he works for a debt collector. You should have just told him the matter had nothing to do with him, and hung up.


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## Eoin28 (5 Jun 2020)

Thanks for your replies - This is a local business & the only reason for delay was due to the queries. So I don't regret paying the funds. I just contacted the brother again & he confirmed that he is not an employee of the company. Am I correct in saying that they have breeched GDPR in passing on my personal information to the owners brother?


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## cmalone (5 Jun 2020)

Did you put your queries in writing regarding dispute payment ?


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## Eoin28 (5 Jun 2020)

Yes


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## cremeegg (5 Jun 2020)

If you didn't owe the money why did you pay it.

That is the way any judge would look at it. Not unreasonably


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## RedOnion (5 Jun 2020)

Eoin28 said:


> Am I correct in saying that they have breeched GDPR in passing on my personal information to the owners brother


It's not entirely black & white.
There's a 'legitimate interest' clause in GDPR. The supplier could have a legitimate interest to get paid. They have to balance that with your rights. 
What exactly would you like to achieve?


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## odyssey06 (5 Jun 2020)

Did you give your place of work during business correspondence?

Suggest reading the below.

_The lender is not permitted to call you or to visit you at your place of work unless you are also living there, or unless all reasonable efforts to contact you elsewhere have failed. Only the person involved in the loan can be contacted about it. This means that your lender cannot contact your employer or a member of your family about your loan. _






						Debt collection
					

Outlines the rules governing debt collection.




					www.citizensinformation.ie


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## RedOnion (5 Jun 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Suggest reading the below.


A lot of this refers only to 'lending' as it's within the consumer protection code.


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## odyssey06 (5 Jun 2020)

RedOnion said:


> A lot of this refers only to 'lending' as it's within the consumer protection code.



True, but I think it gives an indication of the rules once would expect governing debt collection in general.

Leaving aside the genuineness of the debt for the moment...
The OP's contact information and home address were known to the company.
They had not attempted to contact the OP with those contact details.
Therefore, there were no grounds for turning up to place of employment - it would fail the necessity test below.









						Debt Recovery Update: Competing Rights – Debt Collection and Data…
					

Anyone who has clicked “ I accept ” on a webpage privacy pop-up can as attest to the change that the GDPR has brought to business and commercial life today. However, most data privacy experts will remind you that GDPR is more of an evolution than a revolution though. This is certainly the case in…




					www.mhc.ie


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## SparkRite (5 Jun 2020)

Eoin28 said:


> There was one item within the build that was charged for twice, ............



Notwithstanding the GDPR issue (which I personally think is a red herring in all this), why did you not pay the bill, less the overcharged item ?
My guess is that had you done, the unfortunate events would never have occurred.


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## Eoin28 (5 Jun 2020)

Simply deducting the amount from the bill without agreement & making the payment would have resulted in the balance remaining outstanding. I was simply awaiting confirmation. The fact they had all my personal contact details & choose to visit my place of work was completely unfair & uncalled for in my opinion.

They never had an information with regards to my place of work. I'm sure the umbrella brand which this hardware store is part of would not like to be associated with these type of actions. This looks to be a bit of a grey area, most guidelines relate to financial institutions and not Retail. What do i want to achieve? an apology and possibly prevent this type of behaviour happen to other customers. Thanks for your comments.


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## SparkRite (5 Jun 2020)

Eoin28 said:


> Simply deducting the amount from the bill without agreement & making the payment would have resulted in the balance remaining outstanding.



Of course it would, I never suggested otherwise.
However unless the item in question cost €1699.99, I and I suspect most people would be peeved that a creditor witholds the total amount due over one erroneous charge.
I would suggest that this could be perceived , in some quarters as the total of €1700 being used as a lever.

BTW, I agree that calling to your place of work is uncalled for, but I suspect it could have been avoided, quite easily.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Jun 2020)

@Eoin28 

The firm tried to neither contact you by email, phone, in writing at your home address, nor in person at your home address. Is this right?

But someone instead called in person to your work address (which you had never supplied), correct?


Aside from the legalities, why do you think they tried the work approach rather than the personal one?


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## DeeKie (8 Jun 2020)

If you never gave them your work address then getting it and using it for the purposes they did is likely to be a breach of gdpr.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jun 2020)

DeeKie said:


> If you never gave them your work address then getting it and using it for the purposes they did is likely to be a breach of gdpr.


What if they found the OP on Linkedin?


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## cmalone (8 Jun 2020)

Be mindful that a formal complaint under gdpr to the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner Will take years to progress .. you can bring your own gdpr breach today court without waiting for ODPC ... 

 so the issue regarding ‘debt’ will most likely progress via other channels in the interim..

suggest you get legal advice on best course of action...


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## elcato (8 Jun 2020)

You want an apology and request they don't use this sharp practice again then write to them asking for this. You said you had a good relationship with the builder provider ? Then why not just drop in to his place of work and ask for an explanation. I suspect his answer will be that he wanted his 1.7k and you were not paying.


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## Seagull (10 Jun 2020)

I'd consider it perfectly acceptable to hold off paying while the company is ignoring you and not making any attempt to address the issues. Which is easier, and more likely to get repeat business?
- Engage with the customer, and attempt to resolve the issue
- Go postal, and call in the big bad brother to visit the customer at work and make threats


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## elcato (10 Jun 2020)

Eoin28 said:


> I noticed a couple of items that were incorrect & e-mailed these to the provider. I asked for the bill to be amended to reflect the correct balance. The person I was dealing with the whole way through the build would not give me a call to discuss the items. There was one item within the build that was charged for twice, despite it being already included in a batch of items. *The hardware shop disputed this*, so I found a what's app message to the person the shop that supported the fact I was over charged. *So I basically told them in my e-mail that once that was deducted, I would pay the final €1700 straight away.*


It's not fully clear what happened given the inormation supplied but if the hardware shop disputed then there must have been engagement. The OP then sent an ultimatum.


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