# Illegal recording to be used in court.



## iwsf (10 Oct 2007)

Hi,
is it legal or not to record somebody without them knowing about it and use it in court to prove something ?
Thank you


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## serotoninsid (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*



iwsf said:


> Hi,
> is it legal or not to record somebody without them knowing about it and use it in court to prove something ?
> Thank you


 In the case of a phone conversation, you are obliged to ask the other party if they agree to the recording.  I'd imagine the same would apply to any other recording scenarios...


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## ClubMan (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*



serotoninsid said:


> I'd imagine the same would apply to any other recording scenarios...


Can't the _Gardaí _record your conversations surreptitiously and use it as evidence with an appropriate warrant?


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## iwsf (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

The other party as well as their solicitor have vey littkle to defend themselves as they are the ones messing arround. They do not have any solid evidences to back up their  claims so all they do is lie. Just trying to find a way to prove that they lie.  Not easy !  The Gards do not want to be involved.  Thank you


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## serotoninsid (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*



ClubMan said:


> Can't the _Gardaí _record your conversations surreptitiously and use it as evidence with an appropriate warrant?


 Sure, i'd assume the same.  Was assuming the OP wasn't involving the gardai.


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## ClubMan (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

The original post was very vague and I assumed that it was some sort of academic question on the general issue.


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## iwsf (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

Appreciate your answers . Thank you


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## davidoco (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*



iwsf said:


> Hi,
> is it legal or not to record somebody without them knowing about it and use it in court to prove something ?
> Thank you



Best thing to do is call their bluff and say that you have a recording showing your innocence in the matter.


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## rmelly (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

and their solicitor will point out that it is inadmissable and laugh...the answer is in the thread title - it's illegal. I would also imagine that any attempt to present this in court would do more damage to your case than help it, given that it calls into question your honesty and integrity?


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## csirl (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

There is no law preventing you from putting a recording device on your own phone and recording all your own phonecalls so long as you do not interfere with or damage property (i.e. phone lines) belonging to the phone company e.g. eircom. You do not need to tell callers that they are being recorded (call centres only do so to be polite and as a preventative measure to put off abusive callers).

There does not appear to be any law against covert CCTV which is installed in many shops & which is more invasive than just voice recording.

The general gist seems to be that its ok to record/video stuff on your own property if you are not interfering or damaging other peoples property. 

What is illegal is recording or tapping conversations where NONE of the parties involved have permitted the recording and where communication systems not owned by the recorder are interfered with (which I believe is done by some dodgy private investigation companies).

Any lawyers and details of precedents?


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## csirl (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

P.S. I've a friend who used to do investigative journalism - made liberal use of dictaphone in the inside pocket of jacket - said all journalist did it.


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## MichaelDes (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

In court proceedings it is inadmissible.


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## Purple (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*



csirl said:


> There is no law preventing you from putting a recording device on your own phone and recording all your own phonecalls so long as you do not interfere with or damage property (i.e. phone lines) belonging to the phone company e.g. eircom. You do not need to tell callers that they are being recorded (call centres only do so to be polite and as a preventative measure to put off abusive callers).
> 
> There does not appear to be any law against covert CCTV which is installed in many shops & which is more invasive than just voice recording.
> 
> ...





MichaelDes said:


> In court proceedings it is inadmissible.


I remember hearing that it was legal for the bill payer to record phone conversations. If this is the case why would something that is legal to do be inadmissible in court? 

Where have all the solicitors on AAM gone?


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## MichaelDes (10 Oct 2007)

*Re: Illegal recording to used in court.*

Don't know about phone tap...but no for general recordings without prior consent for general cases. There could be special circumstances though.


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## csirl (11 Oct 2007)

> but no for general recordings without prior consent for general cases


 
I think that the consent in these cases means from the owner of the property or billpayer rather than all parties who may appear in/on the recording.


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## Stifster (18 Oct 2007)

As far as I know you can record your own telephone conversations and use them as evidence. Gardai can get warrants to tap, other third parties can't intercept calls.


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## hope4711 (18 Oct 2007)

Taping of telephone conversations is legal provided it is done with the consent of one of the parties. Tapping of phones is illegal.  Recording face to face conversations is not illegal but might be a breach of privacy.


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## Hasslehoff (18 Oct 2007)

I think you have to differentiate between civil wrongs and criminal wrongs. If the Gardai are investigating potential criminal wrong doing I doubt that they need much in the way of permission from anyone while in a public place but certainly the permission of those who own the method or means of the recording i.e buildings, phone lines, phone, property etc. Once in a private environment they will need permission from those assissting, but they do not have to disclose the specific purpose of the investigation as that would obviously jeopardise matters.

In a civil court any such recording taken by the either party would be inadmissible since both parties where not aware of the recording and that the means, method and validity of that recording would come into question but this changes if the matter is that of a criminal nature.

You are entitled under data protection to ask a company for all such information including that and those recorded


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## Ghodadaba (19 Oct 2007)

Hope4711 is 100% right. As long as one of the parties to the conversation (i.e. yourself) is aware that it is being taped and gives consent, then it is perfectly legal to do it and it is perfectly admissable in a court afterwards.

We don't have any real privacy legislation in Ireland at all, so I don't think you could argue that a face-to-face conversation being recorded is a breach of privacy. In fact, plans for a privacy law have been shelved by Brian Lenihan. It has never been tested. I doubt it ever will be.


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## hope4711 (19 Oct 2007)

In the Leas Cross case against RTE the judge stated that recording by subterfuge could in certain circumstances breach a constitutional right to privacy - it didn't apply in that case because of the issues of public interest.  

When I refer to breach of privacy in face to face conversations I'm talking about recording conversations to which you are not a party.


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## dfg75 (3 Jun 2008)

what are the legal implications of recording a meeting for the purpose of creating meeting minutes? does anyone know if it is it legal if you record someone's voice in your own home? would either be admissible  as evidence. If not would minutes of that conversation be legal?


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## csirl (4 Jun 2008)

You are entitled to record any meeting you have in your own home.



> what are the legal implications of recording a meeting for the purpose of creating meeting minutes?


 
Can you rephrase this question or expand?


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## GOBSTOPPER (4 Jun 2008)

I think you can use a transcript from the recording  in the court .


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## Complainer (8 Jun 2008)

I was wondering recently if, when you ring a call centre and hear the 'calls may be recorded for quality' message, does that effectively give you permission to record the call and use the recording as evidence? After all, they have given permission to record the call...


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