# Current edition of Dragons Den on RTE?



## Liamos (14 Mar 2011)

Anyone watching the current edition of Dragons Den on RTE?

While I enjoy the programme and think its quite good, what really annoys me is when the Dragons decide to invest in a business but ask for a ridiculously large shareholding.

It seems to me that the Dragons are really out to screw the individuals in question. Last night for example some woman was offering 7.5% for an investment of €30,000. Two Dragons made an offer to give her the €30,000 but for a shareholding of 44%! In the end they agreed to lower this to 40%! 

I know that the person entering the Den obviously sets their opening position low, but are the Dragons being a bit unfair in the shareholdings that they demand?


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## Staples (14 Mar 2011)

Liamos said:


> I know that the person entering the Den obviously sets their opening position low, but are the Dragons being a bit unfair in the shareholdings that they demand?


 
They're hard-nosed business people.  Fairness doesn't come into it.

As an aside, I think they're even more condescending and bad-mannered than last year.  There's no need for it.


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## TarfHead (14 Mar 2011)

If I was being asked for thousands of euro for something to help me cut sellotape, I'd want a controlling share in the enterprise.



Staples said:


> As an aside, I think they're even more condescending and bad-mannered than last year. There's no need for it.


 
There seems to be a competition among themselves to have the most witty or withering put-down when declining to invest.


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## The_Banker (14 Mar 2011)

I didn’t see last nights show but from all the other shows I watched I think people are unrealistic going into the Den, looking for money and offering so little equity. By looking for €30k for 7.5% of the company they are basically valuing the company at €400,000. 

Was the company making a small profit?


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## Shawady (14 Mar 2011)

Liamos said:


> While I enjoy the programme and think its quite good, what really annoys me is when the Dragons decide to invest in a business but ask for a ridiculously large shareholding.


 
There are two sides in it. I noticed in this series (and the English version) that some people value their business really high, without the evidence to back it up. I've seen people come in and value their company for a couple of million when basically all they have is an idea, and no hard sales to back it up.

I suppose with the dragon's expertise on board they might have more of a chance to succeed so the question is , do they want 50% of a sucessful product or 100% of a failure?


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## truthseeker (14 Mar 2011)

No matter how much a Dragon wants of your business you should go for it. The expertise and mentoring is priceless, certainly unaffordable to anyone Ive seen pitch on it.

If youre in there in the first place its because you need money and/or assistance to get your idea making money.


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## Mrs Vimes (14 Mar 2011)

Staples said:


> As an aside, I think they're even more condescending and bad-mannered than last year.  There's no need for it.



There's a hilarious review of the show [broken link removed]


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## Ceist Beag (14 Mar 2011)

Staples said:


> As an aside, I think they're even more condescending and bad-mannered than last year.  There's no need for it.


+1 - Arrogant, smug, not in the slightest bit funny and I'd be interested to see how much money they actually invest by the end of the series - my guess it that it is less than they are being paid to take part in the series! It's a very poor imitation of the BBC version imho.


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## WicklowMan (14 Mar 2011)

TarfHead said:


> If I was being asked for thousands of euro for something to help me cut sellotape, I'd want a controlling share in the enterprise.
> 
> 
> 
> There seems to be a competition among themselves to have the most witty or withering put-down when declining to invest.



+1

It seems like a bad re-hash of the 'X - factor' at times. The bald youngish guy who looks like he chews ballbearings always reminds me of the worst of Celtic Tiger excesses. I can picture him parking between two petrol pumps (must be 4.0 Nissan Pathfinder) and telling anyone who complains to eff off whilst getting his breakfast roll, and talking on his mobile instead of showing the deli assistant any respect. 

As for the guy from Insomnia, they made a huge loss. His hurried reply to a journalist before rapidly shuffling along? - "It wasn't a good year for Insomnia". Those who don't like it shouldn't dish it out. People deserve respect, and the dubious 'entertainment factor' of belittling people seems to be taking over from the business side of it.


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## Purple (15 Mar 2011)

If I was looking for equity for a business these would be the last people I’d talk to.
I’d do my homework, find out who the existing players are in the market, and talk to them. Just because someone made money renting out suits (or whatever) it doesn’t follow that they’ll be good at anything else.
A Bill Cullen type person who’s made money at various ventures is a different proposition but the Irish “Dragons” are not in the same league as the UK ones. The whole model seems to cater for a bunch of people who are rich and now want to be famous. It’s more about ego than investment.


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## Slash (15 Mar 2011)

Gavin Duffy's a total plonker, and not as wealthy as he lets on. Don't know why he is even there. He's always playing to the camera, just like on The Apprentice interviews.

Edit: Gavin Duffy's wife is on the Board of RTE, so that explains why he is on the programme.


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## Firefly (15 Mar 2011)

Purple said:


> If I was looking for equity for a business these would be the last people I’d talk to.



+1 but the exposure for the hopefuls is pretty good. A lot of free advertising...with both future clients and potential investment partners watching.


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## battyee (15 Mar 2011)

Agree with previous posters the DEN is all about EGO's, self publicity, attitudes, being different, intimidating the poor pitchers, TV viewing figures. Approx. 30 countries have almost identical versions with similar, cast, sets & scripts with heavy editing.
On the plus side a lot of people like myself find it compulsive viewing &  the participants  can get invaluable exposure & publicity not to mention experience. Most get more hits on their web sites within the 24 hrs. following the show than they had  in the previous 6 months.


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## dockingtrade (16 Mar 2011)

looking for equity stakes of 40 - 50 % for investements around 20k, ridiculous.


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## Complainer (17 Mar 2011)

TarfHead said:


> There seems to be a competition among themselves to have the most witty or withering put-down when declining to invest.



I'd bet that most of these are scripted beforehand.

I enjoy the show, but I don't take it too seriously. It is great advertising for some businesses, like the 'For Sale By Owner' guy last week.


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## Complainer (27 Mar 2011)

I'm getting more and more annoyed with these folk.

Last week we had Bobby giggling like a 13-year-old boy at the mention of a 'sanitary towel'.

This week, we had a 30-something lady who has been running her own business for a couple of years being told that 'you're a great girl' and 'you did a great presentation for someone with three kids'.

These folk might be very wealthy, but these seem to be lacking a little something in common sense or social skills.


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## levelpar (28 Mar 2011)

I used to watch the Uk show but switched  to the Irish one.

I now cant stand it for most of the reasons mentioned.

The picture of vultures I once saw lined up on perches in Dublin Zoo some years ago flashes before my eyes .

 Seriously,these people are like shylocks  who demand a great product, good balance sheet , some market estabished success, someone willing to work around the clock and a very large slice of the company . For all this ,they will pass on contacts , get introductions and maybe slip the product in with their own.

Yes , they get their pound of flesh


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## Protocol (28 Mar 2011)

Complainer said:


> This week, we had a 30-something lady who has been running her own business for a couple of years being told that 'you're a great girl' and 'you did a great presentation for someone with three kids'.


 

I'm not PC at all, but I did wince when I heard that... "you're a great girl"


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