# Insulated Concrete Forms



## aishling (2 Sep 2010)

We are considering using ICF for our build and just looking for peoples opinions as to whether its the way to go or not? Would love to hear from anyone who has gone through the process & is living in the house, did you have any problems? What system did you use & why? 

Thanks a mill,

Aishling


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## onq (2 Sep 2010)

aishling said:


> We are considering using ICF for our build and just looking for peoples opinions as to whether its the way to go or not? Would love to hear from anyone who has gone through the process & is living in the house, did you have any problems? What system did you use & why?
> 
> Thanks a mill,
> 
> Aishling



Hi Aishling,

 Yours is a question not too frequently asked.
I have no direct experience of it but I'll offer a few words of advice.

ICF is has the concrete sandwiched between two pieces permanent formwork made of of insulation.
Its almost like an inside-out cavity wall, which has the insulation sandwiched between two block leaves.
As with any technology using concrete, the quality of the pour is paramount and careful placing from a reasonable height together with properly controlled vibration of the mix to get rid of cavitation or "holes" is required.
Use someone experienced with the particular working method and system if you want to avoid disasters, from correct placement of the steel to ensuring the formwork is sealed and braced before the pour.

Also concrete is quite caustic so you'll need to protect yourself and ensure all others are protected while working at or near it.
Concrete workers can develop terrible lesions on their skin by not using protective gloves and in particular their feet because they wear laced boots instead of sealed rubber boots.
The concrete goes down the inside and partly sets and the blistering has to be seen to be believed.
If you're serious about this you should find a general Safe Site Pass course and a specialist course for concrete work if you intend to get involved at any level.
Plus, if you're thinking of building by Direct Labour, this makes you the contractor and you're liable for ensuring only competent people are employed to do this work and for co-ordination deliveries, pourts and dealing with overspills, collapses and surplus.

The below links were pretty easy to come by:

http://www.icf.ie/

http://www.amvicireland.com/

[broken link removed]

General Discussion

[broken link removed]

Overview of the product and method

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulated_concrete_form

Take note of the problems of adding, widening or repositioning doors or windows later.

On a thread in boards.ie earleir in the year, there was an ongoing dispute over tracing of leaks on one job.

Given the nature of concrete and the enclosure of the insulation, the interior of the building can develop high moisture content in the first few weeks after completion.

Remember these persons writing these websites are selling something.
I have no connection to these companies and no experience of their products.
I include the links to illustrate the general concept - this is not an endorsement of the products.

You might also want to read the Self-Build FAQ on this forum if you're thinking of self-build.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon               as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal       action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in               Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the       matters    at      hand.


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## aishling (6 Sep 2010)

Thanks for the response ONQ. Had a look through the links you sent... we are thinking of going with the KORE system which is 150mm of insulation (75mm inside and outside) & 150mm of concrete which should give a u value of .2. 

A friend mentioned that 75mm on the outside isnt enough insulation, is this true? I thought as the building would be airtight that it would be ok?

Aishling


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## onq (6 Sep 2010)

aishling said:


> Thanks for the response ONQ. Had a look through the links you sent... we are thinking of going with the KORE system which is 150mm of insulation (75mm inside and outside) & 150mm of concrete which should give a u value of .2.
> 
> A friend mentioned that 75mm on the outside isnt enough insulation, is this true? I thought as the building would be airtight that it would be ok?
> 
> Aishling



You're welcome Aishling, nice to be appreciated.

Sealing the building isn't directly related to the provision of insulation.
I don't know what you said, exactly, and I don't know what your friend said back, but there may be some confusion arising.
Insulation in the current regulations centres on the structural /envelope "sandwich" and how this performs under ideal conditions.

Sealing relates to combating the effects of the elements, primarily the wind to reduce infiltration losses both internally and from within the envelope.
Regardless, the depth of insulation is meaningless without knowing the u-value of the material, but in general more insulation means more heat retention.

I'm afraid you're starting to get into specialist questions on a specialist subject I don't ahve direct experience of and so I'm standing back a little.
Plus I think this really should be someone's paying job to advise you and advice should be affordable now.
After all, this is a recession with many unemployed architects about.

If you want to search these threads for information on ICF please do so.
You can also look over on boards.ie on the Planning and Construction Forum.
I have mentioned in this forum a thread from boards.ie before which was about tracing a leak in an ICF construction.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the        matters    at      hand.


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## build4less (6 Sep 2010)

Aishling,

ICF is a very safe form of construction but agreeing with ong great care needs to be taken during pouring stage, but that goes with any building project whether it is concrete, timber or steel. There are a number of companies out there that specialise in this one. I have come across Integraspec before not sure where they are based but I know they supply nationwide. I have used their system onsite and found it to be very good. I have not come across any other company supplying this form of construction but I would know what I am looking at. They were good to deal with aswell. As ong states in his previous threads there are many companies out there doing this so diligense is paramount here.

Build4less


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## aishling (8 Sep 2010)

Thanks guys, we are going to go ahead with Kore ICF as the contractor came recommended to us & we have seen his work and are happy with the quality! We should get a u value of .18-.2 for the walls which sounds good to me. Fingers crossed it all goes according to plan


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## onq (8 Sep 2010)

Just remember that notwithstanding the wall result you will need a u-value of 1.5 for the floor if you intend to use underfloor heating.
And check this before you build in case some new regulation has come in.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                 as a defence or support - in and of itself - should  legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                 Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the         matters    at      hand.


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## aishling (10 Sep 2010)

Were not going to go down the underfloor heating route but will definately aim to have high lever of insulation in the floor aswell! Starting the rising walls Monday!


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## paddyp (22 Sep 2010)

ICF is not cheaper and not necessarily faster and everything you do after you've put it up will be non standard. Our friends have just completed an icf build against the advice or family and friends and would not recommend it. 


Laying the blocks is a fraction of the time required to build a house it is tried and tested you can shop around for the materials and will have no trouble finding people to lay them properly and plaster them correctly.


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## ninsaga (22 Sep 2010)

Why would they not recommend it - what went wrong?


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## aishling (23 Sep 2010)

I agree that ICF is not cheaper, dont think anyone has claimed it is. I believe the external walls will be up marginally quicker than a block build but this is not why we choose to go this route. We choose ICF for airtightness & insulation qualities. 

What system did your friend use paddyp? What are you referring to when you say non standard? Im aware that the plastering will not be standard as you have mentioned, was this their main problem?

Our block layer (a relation of my partner) went to see an ICF house with us and agreed it was the way to go...


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## sconve (10 May 2011)

*Kore ICF*

Hi Aisling,

I was wondering how you got on with your ICF build? Did you go with Kore in the end? I am considering them as an option also so any feedback would be great


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