# Drinks Charge



## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

I wonder could anyone tell me what my rights were in this instance?

I was in a restaurant recently with my wife, daughter and her boyfriend. We ordered our meal and a drink which we received. After a while our waitress came to our table to advise that they had received a phonecall from a person known to us, who wanted to buy us a round of drinks. We gave the order and received the drinks.

When we got our bill at the end of the meal we discovered that we had been charged for the second round of drinks, and brought it to the waitresses attention. She came back to say that the credit card of the person who made the phonecall had not cleared and that the owner of the restaurant directed that we should pay.

I argued the case with the owner, and without going into all that was said, decided in the end to just pay the bill and leave. The amount involved was just €19.00 so that is not what annoys me.

I am annoyed at first of all having to pay for something I didnt order, and even more annoyed at the sneaky way in which it was added to our bill without it being explained to us until we asked. 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Frank


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## Scotsgirl (4 Aug 2010)

You say you didn't order the drinks but you agreed to accept them.  You could have refused.

I think your annoyance is misplaced.  You should be annoyed with the person who 'bought' you the round.  That was the person who should have paid.  Of course if the card didn't work the restaurant would charge you.  Why should they be out of pocket?  For all they know it could have been a set up.


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## aristotle (4 Aug 2010)

Who would ring the restaurant to buy you drinks, surely you have some idea who it was?


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## Scotsgirl (4 Aug 2010)

The Op said the person was known to them.


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## aristotle (4 Aug 2010)

Ah right, well then whats the problem. In fairness the restuarant should have told you the credit card was declined but often there can be more than one person dealing with your table\order so the person giving you the bill may not have known.


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

Yes I do do know the person. I also know that their credit card is good for a lot more than a round of drinks, and the fact that it didnt clear was the fault of the restaurant staff,  but that really wasnt the point I was making.


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## aristotle (4 Aug 2010)

What are you asking then? You were annoyed at what happened and you paid the bill. 

What do you want to happen now or what input do you want? Are you looking to get money back from the restaurant?


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

No need to jump down my throat. As I said the money is not important. Im just asking if the restaurant was right or wrong to charge the drinks to me. So far both you and Scotsgirl have given the opinion that they were correct in what they did. Thats what I asked for. Opinion. Thanks for your input. I dont think you can really do any more


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## Scotsgirl (4 Aug 2010)

Well unless the restaurant took the number of the person who rang and could have called them back for a different card for payment, I don't think they could have done anything else.  And you can't really go back to your friend and say 'by the way, your card didn't work, you owe me €19' - embarrassing for both. I'm sure they only meant well.  At least it wasn't more.


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

Thanks for your input Scotsgirl


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## Complainer (4 Aug 2010)

Scotsgirl said:


> Well unless the restaurant took the number of the person who rang and could have called them back for a different card for payment, I don't think they could have done anything else.  And you can't really go back to your friend and say 'by the way, your card didn't work, you owe me €19' - embarrassing for both. I'm sure they only meant well.  At least it wasn't more.


I think it is definitely up to the restaurant to confirm that the card is valid before handing over the booze. This would well be a clerical error by the waiting staff (mixing up a digit or two) that has left the diners with a bill to pay. 

I would be quick to let the caller know that the restaurant screwed up on the credit card number. Anyone who was magnaminous enough to order the drinks in the first place would definitely want to get this sorted out.


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## Ceist Beag (4 Aug 2010)

The restaurant was definitely at fault here. They took an order from someone over the phone for a round of drinks, they took payment for this, and then they try and charge someone else for the drinks? That is akin to theft in my book. They screwed up in not ensuring payment went thru for the credit card but they had absolutely no right to charge the OP for these drinks. If they did not take down contact details from the person who placed the order that is their mistake. I'm not sure why some posters think the OP had any obligation to pay here.


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## Neg Covenant (4 Aug 2010)

The OP had no obligation to pay.   The restaurant did a transaction with somebody else.   It is their problem.   The OP should have refused to pay.   If I were the OP I would have threatened to pay for nothing and told the restaurant to sue me for the difference.

I would have sympathy with the restaurant except they tried to sneak it on to the bill at the end.   Apart for that they messed up by not processing payment while the person was on the phone which is really stupid.


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## Joe Q Public (4 Aug 2010)

I would concur with the last 2 posters. The OP had no liability for the drinks ordered by this mysterious person on the phone. Indeed I find it strange that someone would do such a thing. 

OP should have stood his ground and refused to pay.


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> I would concur with the last 2 posters. The OP had no liability for the drinks ordered by this mysterious person on the phone. Indeed I find it strange that someone would do such a thing.
> 
> OP should have stood his ground and refused to pay.


 
Thanks for your view Joe. There is nothing mysterious about the caller at all however. He was just buying a drink for us as it was my wife's birthday.

The situation was getting embarrassing and that was why I paid and left. In fact the owner actually said to me that he was giving great value in his meal prices and did I expect him to buy me drink as well. At that stage I felt it better to move on.


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## Complainer (4 Aug 2010)

frankmac said:


> At that stage I felt it better to move on.


I'd be moving on to a different restaurant for the next celebration.


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## truthseeker (4 Aug 2010)

I wouldnt have paid - its the restaurants problem.

If Im in a bar/restaurant and someone sends me a drink and I drink it - I have no knowledge of how it is paid for or whether that persons credit card is good for it etc.. Its not my transaction.


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## twofor1 (4 Aug 2010)

frankmac said:


> In fact the owner actually said to me that he was giving great value in his meal prices and did I expect him to buy me drink as well. .


 
The restaurant accepted the order from a third party, they should have taken whatever steps necessary to ensure the third party paid, if they didint it's their problem not yours.


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## TwoWheels (4 Aug 2010)

Not the OP's problem..
If I order a bunch of flowers to be delivered to my loved one and my credit card is declined, should she be expected to pay for them?
Of course not, This is the same thing.


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

It seems that the balance of opinion has swayed strongly in my favour .


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## irishmoss (4 Aug 2010)

Lets hope you both haven't been charged!


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## Marietta (4 Aug 2010)

frankmac said:


> Thanks for your view Joe. There is nothing mysterious about the caller at all however. He was just buying a drink for us as it was my wife's birthday.


 

How did he know it was your wife's birthday and how did he know you were at this particular restaurant? I think he set you up, a silly prank albeit a childless one. I would be giving this guy a wide berth in future and also the restaurant.


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

Marietta said:


> How did he know it was your wife's birthday and how did he know you were at this particular restaurant? I think he set you up, a silly prank albeit a childless one. I would be giving this guy a wide berth in future and also the restaurant.


 
Lets say we know him well and he knows us well. But for circumstances he would have been with us at the meal. I have told him since what happened. Like I said the €19.00 is not the bugging point


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## pudds (4 Aug 2010)

As I see it the restaurant accepted a phone  request to buy a few guests a round of drink. If they proceeded *without* getting card clearance first then tough luck..and even more so for such a measly amount.


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## Complainer (4 Aug 2010)

frankmac said:


> Lets say we know him well and he knows us well. But for circumstances he would have been with us at the meal. I have told him since what happened.


Did he offer to refund you?


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## frankmac (4 Aug 2010)

Complainer said:


> Did he offer to refund you?


 
Yes he did. I told him to buy it next time we're in the local and to use cash.


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## TheShark (4 Aug 2010)

I would'nt have paid it either - restaraunts problem.


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## niceoneted (5 Aug 2010)

I am with complainer on this one. Also agree with Twowheels logic on this. 
The restaurant should have ensured that the credit card cleared and also taken a number from the caller. If they omitted to take the callers number they should not have been so underhanded about getting payment. Perhaps if they explained clearly you would not have had an issue with payment. 
I would not frequent the restaurant again and I would most certainly tell the friend involved.


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## salaried (5 Aug 2010)

You ordered the drinks on the premise they were paid for.The issue for the staff would be to make sure the card payment was secure before informing you of your friends offer.With respect twowheels if my card was declined by a florist and on delivery my wife was asked to pay for a bunch of oriental lillies,god help the person delivering them.


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## PyritePete (5 Aug 2010)

ceist beag said:


> the restaurant was definitely at fault here. They took an order from someone over the phone for a round of drinks, they took payment for this, and then they try and charge someone else for the drinks? That is akin to theft in my book. They screwed up in not ensuring payment went thru for the credit card but they had absolutely no right to charge the op for these drinks. If they did not take down contact details from the person who placed the order that is their mistake. I'm not sure why some posters think the op had any obligation to pay here.


 
+1


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## frankmac (6 Aug 2010)

Thank you all so much for your input. 

Must admit that at the outset of the thread I thought going to get slated, but its seems that the vast majority of opinion has come down on my side.

Thanks again

Frank


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## salaried (7 Aug 2010)

Your welcome Frank,you can hold your head high,more than I can say for that money grabbing food hall.You were right ,they were wrong .


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## john martin (7 Aug 2010)

In my limited legal knowledge you did not enter into any contract to buy the drinks as you did not ask for them and were not liable to pay.


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## PetrolHead (10 Aug 2010)

It amazes me how people get into talking about liability and contracts and obligations... it was a round of drinks. 

Frankmac - answer me this - if staff had served you the drinks and then come over to you to quietly say "we're very sorry, but we've had a problem processing the credit card given to us over the phone and we didn't take the contact details of your friend... would it be OK to put the drinks on your bill or shall we call the gentleman back?" what would your response have been?

The issue here is not the value of the drinks but the way in which the situation was handled. Perhaps the restaurant staff can be excused for being busy or maybe different staff dealt with each transaction and confusion reigned. 

My point however is this... 

How many conversations about obligations and contracts and liabilities etc etc etc would have been avoided by having that 'quiet word' at the very beginning of the situation...?


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## JoeB (10 Aug 2010)

Yes, because you shouldn't have been charged. The flowers example is the best one. Anyone selling anything over the phone should ensure payment has been received before delivering anything. 

Some people say it may have been a setup, by the customer... but how do we know that the credit card was declined? Perhaps it wasn't and the drinks were paid for twice.

Perhaps the card was declined before the drinks were poured, and the restaurant poured them anyway, intending to charge the customer (the OP)..

Perhaps it was a setup by the restaurant, and there was no caller or credit card... just someones name...


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## Newbie! (10 Aug 2010)

Is there any harm in now writing to the restaurant and exaplaining that in hindsight that you felt they were wrong in what they did, why you thought they were wrong, and that you felt highly embarressed by the situation and how they dealt with it? 
I think you should make your feelings known and tell them that you will not be taking their business there again.


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## twofor1 (10 Aug 2010)

PetrolHead said:


> It amazes me how people get into talking about liability and contracts and obligations... it was a round of drinks.
> 
> Frankmac - answer me this - if staff had served you the drinks and then come over to you to quietly say "we're very sorry, but we've had a problem processing the credit card given to us over the phone and we didn't take the contact details of your friend... would it be OK to put the drinks on your bill or shall we call the gentleman back?" what would your response have been?
> 
> ...


 
I agree the issue here is not the value of the drinks but the way in which the situation was handled, I don't agree with the rest.

The restaurant messed up, they did not ensure they got payment from the person they accepted the order from, it’s their problem. 

There should be no need to have a “quiet word” with anyone. The restaurant should simply have taken the hit for the drinks and not put the customer in the situation of having to query and then dispute the bill as a result of their shortcomings.

As an aside, the cost price of the drinks was probably less than half the disputed €19 bill, I would think the restaurant have generated a lot more than this in bad will as a result of this dispute. Very short sighted in these recessionary times. 

Bad news always travels fast and wide.


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## PetrolHead (11 Aug 2010)

You are right twofor1... There should be no need to have a quiet word... in an ideal world.

Unfortunately, sometimes things go awry, mistakes get made and situations require resolution.

The point I am making is simply that people should rely on communication more often... and that goes for both businesses and consumers.

Discourse is a powerful tool!!!


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## Joe Q Public (11 Aug 2010)

This situation did not require resolution. It was the fault of the restaurant. Their problem.


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## David_Dublin (11 Aug 2010)

Either one of his staff (or maybe himself/herself) made a mistake in  taking down the CC info, or the generous (magnanimous??) person called  the info out incorrectly. But  I'd have paid and left when they refused to pay. 

I would feel for a restauranteur in this situation - a lot of them are struggling to survive at the moment. It would be a very bitter pill to swallow for him/her to have to absorb the costs of a round of drinks in such circumstances.

I understand what has been posted re the actual rights & wrongs, and the technicalities of it all, but I think you have to be fair too. You had the drinks, the bar bill needed to be settled, and it's not fair that the restaurant loses out.

I had a sort of similar experience a few years ago, though it is of no help here. I was a near penniless student, but wanted to treat my girlfriend to a romantic meal. I pushed the boat out. I was pretty excited about it, and had mentioned it to my Dad. So I spent all my disposable income for the next couple of months on a lovely  meal on Valentines day. All good. I was talking to my Dad the next day and he tells me that he had rung the restaurant to give hi CC to pay for the meal, but they hadn't been able to identify which couple we were. Not sure why. But my Dad didn't go on to ask what it had cost, and give me the money. I was gutted!!!


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## dewdrop (11 Aug 2010)

Amazing how views can change. will you have to tell your friend or otherwise he will be wondering why the item does not appear on his credit statement.


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## Joe Q Public (11 Aug 2010)

> it's not fair that the restaurant loses out


Well if their staff are incompetent then they should. They made the mistake, they should pay.


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## David_Dublin (11 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> Well if their staff are incompetent then they should. They made the mistake, they should pay.



So you have never run a struggling business then..and you dont know where the mistake happened, nor is there any way to know, so why not suggest that someone pays for what they consumed. If you ran a struggling business you'd be more understanding.


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## Joe Q Public (11 Aug 2010)

Actually no. I would not be. If I ran a business like that restaurant I would deserve to be struggling. 

Tell me what legal basis you have for your view that the diner should pay for their mistake?


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## Complainer (11 Aug 2010)

David_Dublin said:


> and you dont know where the mistake happened


Actually, we do. The restaurant made the mistake by giving out the drinks before confirming payment. They should have run the credit card details into the machine before bringing out the drinks to avoid any problems.


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## David_Dublin (11 Aug 2010)

Wow the knives are out!! I love it 

@Joe Q Public: 
"what legal basis" - I made no suggestion that my view was legally based, in fact, quite the opposite. My suggestion was to be fair to the restauranteur.

"If I ran a business like that restaurant I would deserve to be  struggling" - yes, trying to charge someone for something that they have had, the cheek! you have no idea how the run their business, this is an isolated example, and unnusual situation.

@Complainer
"The restaurant made the mistake by giving out the drinks before  confirming payment. They should have run the credit card details into  the machine before bringing out the drinks to avoid any problems.         " - I agree with that. Actually, if we're getting all technical here, rather than being reasonable and fair, they should not have taken an order over the phone to be paid by a CC at all. The fact that they did suggests that they were trying to accommodate somebody doing something nice to someone. Imagine that??!!


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## David_Dublin (11 Aug 2010)

One thing I would say is that the restaurant should have handled it better. Having decided that they were not going to offer you the drinks on the house, they should have told you what the issue was, and given you the option of trying to get the correct CC details or accepting payment yourselves.


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## Boyd (11 Aug 2010)

Bottom line is that adding it onto the bill without saying anything to the customer is very bad manners and whether intentional or not is downright sneaky.

The OP then mentioned 
"The situation was getting embarrassing and that was why I paid and left.  In fact the owner actually said to me that he was giving great value in  his meal prices and did I expect him to buy me drink as well. At that  stage I felt it better to move on."

Further examples of bad manners/snottiness from the restaurant for something that was not the OP's fault.

However, the adding it to the bill with no mention of it would be enough for me to side with the customer.


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## PetrolHead (11 Aug 2010)

David_Dublin said:


> One thing I would say is that the restaurant should have handled it better. Having decided that they were not going to offer you the drinks on the house, they should have told you what the issue was, and given you the option of trying to get the correct CC details or accepting payment yourselves.



Exactly my point...

Why do we have to start talking about a 'legal basis' when a quick chat and a bit of honesty would have gone so much further. 

I would imagine (and I may be wrong here, but I'll postulate nonetheless) that had the restaurateur approached frankmac immediately the card was found to be inop., explained the situation and asked if he would like to give his friends contact details or if it was alright to add the charge onto the bill this would never have registered in frankmac's mind as an issue worth discussing and none of us would be...


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## Joe Q Public (11 Aug 2010)

I would agree to disagree with you there. 

It was their problem and not the OP. It is a bad business model to accept drink orders over the phone and serve them without securing payment first.


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## David_Dublin (11 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> I would agree to disagree with you there.
> 
> It was their problem and not the OP. It is a bad business model to accept drink orders over the phone and serve them without securing payment first.



It's hardly a business model


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## PetrolHead (11 Aug 2010)

David_Dublin said:


> It's hardly a business model



I lol'd


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## frankmac (12 Aug 2010)

PetrolHead said:


> It amazes me how people get into talking about liability and contracts and obligations... it was a round of drinks.
> 
> *Frankmac - answer me this - if staff had served you the drinks and then come over to you to quietly say "we're very sorry, but we've had a problem processing the credit card given to us over the phone and we didn't take the contact details of your friend... would it be OK to put the drinks on your bill or shall we call the gentleman back?" what would your response have been?*
> 
> ...


 

Havnt checked the thread for a while and amazed to see the debate it has brought about.

In answer to your question Petrol Head, yes if they had done that i would have happily allowed them to put the cost of the drinks on my bill and paid for it.

The issue was never about the money but the way in which the management dealt with the situation, and the sneaky way in which they applied the charges.

Thanks again for all the views.

Frank


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## Deas (18 Aug 2010)

Name the restaurant.  I'm not sure I want to deal with them either.


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## Caveat (18 Aug 2010)

Deas said:


> Name the restaurant. I'm not sure I want to deal with them either.


 
I would strongly advise against doing anything like that on this site.


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## Leo (18 Aug 2010)

Caveat said:


> I would strongly advise against doing anything like that on this site.


 
I'd have to agree


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## frankmac (18 Aug 2010)

Leo said:


> I'd have to agree


 
Me too


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## paddyc (19 Aug 2010)

This topic has been discussed to death, should be closed by the mods now


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## T McGibney (19 Aug 2010)

Caveat said:


> I would strongly advise against doing anything like that on this site.



Agreed - but why not post the story on Tripadvisor? They don't seem to have a problem with consumers 'telling tales'


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