# Panda Vs South Dublin County Council



## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

Hi all,

Long, boring and number filled post follows... I'm only posting because I don't see how this adds up, and the sales flunkie on the phone was unable to explain the calculation.

Panda have been leafletting my area in Clondalkin, telling me that I could be saving €117 by switching to them for my bin collection. The €117 is asterisked to say it represents an average consumer putting their black bin out 48 times a year.

Panda advises that the black bins have a 20kg capacity. Regardless of whether I go with Panda or the corpo (via Oxigen), I will have to pay per bin, so you can be sure the bin will be stuffed whenever I do put it out.

The corpo charges €8 per bin regardless of weight
Panda charges €64 annually, + €3.20 per bin + 20c per kg.

Assuming 48 x 20kg bins, the annual charges work out as follows:

Panda: 64 [annual fee], + 48*3.20 [pickup fee] + 48*20*.2[weight charge]
= €491.52

Corpo: 48*8
= €384

=> *Panda is €107.52 (28%) DEARER*

As I say, if I'm paying per bin (either provider) I'm going to wait until it's stuffed before I put it out. Assuming 20kg per bin, I'd have to have my black bin collected *80* times a year before Panda became cheaper. 51-52 is the most collections I'll get from either provider. So that's never gonna happen.

If I crammed 25kg in every time, Panda would never be cheaper.  Even if they waived the €64 annual fee.

If we continue the assumption of an average of 48 collections a year, I'd have to restrict myself to putting 17kg in the bin before Panda became cheaper than the Corpo. I'd have to be really sparing and drop to 5kg per bin before I hit the €117 difference. But that means I'd be putting out bins which are only quarter full, which would be costing me way over the odds.

So, my question to you boarders is - "Is Panda's pricing less favourable than South Dublin County Council / Oxigen's or am I making a mess of the calculations?"


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## Seagull (6 Nov 2007)

With the figures you've given, a 20kg bin would work out at €7.20 per lift with panda compared to €8.00 per lift with corpo - a savings of 80c per lift. On that basis, you'd need to have 80 lifts in a year to cover the €64 annual charge. Working in reverse using Panda's figure of €117 savings , you have

Corpo = 48 * €8.00 = €384.00

Subtract €117 = €267.00 is what panda estimates you will pay.
Subtract €64.00 annual fee = €203.00 lift fees
48 * €3.20 = €153.60
Which leaves €49.40 in weight charges 

49.40/0.20 = 247 kg worth of rubbish
247/48 = 5.15 kg per lift

Someone's figures are way out.


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## FredBloggs (6 Nov 2007)

I don't know the answer to your question but I switched over to Panda some months back as it seemed cheaper.  Just got a bill from them and it is much more than I ever paid previously.  Also they don't give a breakdown of the various collections as the Council do.  They just say its available on request.  As I was away on hollidays for a portion of this period and as I figure by the number of total collections on their bill they have included collections for the period I wasn't there I'll definitely be requesting a breakdown.  I'll also be doing a check to see how much I would have paid for the exact same collection previously (ie use the council rates for the kgs collected by Panda)


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## BlueSpud (6 Nov 2007)

The panda profits go to mister panda and his wealthy investors, and subsequently to the villa in Spain.  There is no social responsibility.  This is the big council money earner.  Cut that off and and services will get worse than they are now.  Panda & co wont provide roads/parks/water/light etc services, at least not without additional charges.

Sticking with the local authority will provide (some) badly needed resources to help keep the area maintained. 

I am involved (peripherily) in Tidy Towns and DLRCOCO constantly tell us (as one might expect), that the resources they make available to us, in the form of paint, litter pickers, bags, flower boxes etc are paid for by bin charges. We now get a lot less of this stuff cos of Panda & co.

Short term obvious gain, but more significant, less obvious, longer term loss.

p.s. I have no connection to DLRCOCO or any co-co.


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## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

Seagull said:


> Someone's figures are way out.



Thanks for the brainwork.  You have, much more succinctly, come to the same numbers as I have, so that's reassuring.

Panda don't rely on tokens and seem to be more serious about recycling, so I was interested in their offer, but not at these prices.

Thanks!


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## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

FredBloggs said:


> I don't know the answer to your question but I switched over to Panda some months back as it seemed cheaper.  Just got a bill from them and it is much more than I ever paid previously.  Also they don't give a breakdown of the various collections as the Council do.  They just say its available on request.  As I was away on hollidays for a portion of this period and as I figure by the number of total collections on their bill they have included collections for the period I wasn't there I'll definitely be requesting a breakdown.  I'll also be doing a check to see how much I would have paid for the exact same collection previously (ie use the council rates for the kgs collected by Panda)



All of this is good to know, thanks.  I would be interested to hear how you get on.


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## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

Bluespud, thanks for the input, but I want to keep away from the political debate and focus on the charges themselves.


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## jpd (6 Nov 2007)

Why should bin charges pay for flower boxes ? 

If we wanted flower boxes, couldn't the council charge us for them ? 

In comparison to most other civilised countries, where the local authorities get funding directly from the local population through some sort of local tax (rates, water charges,...) here they are funded mostly by businesses and direct transfers from National Gov't. and so have almost no local democratic support or responability for any of the services they provide. 

I use Panda (in Dun Loaghaire-Rathdown) and it is cheaper than the council provided service, even allowing for villas in Spain!


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## Seagull (6 Nov 2007)

How often do you put your bin out, and how full would it typically be?


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## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

I've been asking myself that, and my best guess is a little more often than once a fortnight.  So, I've used 39 collections / year as my guesstimate.

How full?  As full as I can make it.  I currently only pay per collection, not per kg, so I stuff as much as I can into it, with a view to reducing the number of collections required.  I have no idea how many kg's that is, though.


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## Stifster (6 Nov 2007)

I got a call a couple of weeks ago from Panda asking for our correct address, they had sent a bill out and it had been returned. I signed up online so obviously they had software issues.

Then a week later some old lad called to the door promising me great savings.

"I'm already with you lot"

Still no bill received and it is at least 6 months since we went Bear shaped. miND YOU IT TOOK THEM AN AGE TO ACTUALLY COME AND CHANGE OUR BINS IN THE FIRST PLACE. (damn caps lock)


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## JustSomeone (6 Nov 2007)

Stifster said:


> I signed up online so obviously they had software issues.



Wild guess - do you have an apostrophe in your name or address?  There are still a few IT systems which choke on these.


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## BlueSpud (6 Nov 2007)

jpd said:


> I use Panda (in Dun Loaghaire-Rathdown) and it is cheaper than the council provided service, even allowing for villas in Spain!


 
Of course it's cheaper.  Panda are not putting any of you cach back into your locality.  If the council stopped maintaining the roads etc, I bet they could drop their charges too.


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## Towger (7 Nov 2007)

JustSomeone said:


> Wild guess - do you have an apostrophe in your name or address?  There are still a few IT systems which choke on these.



I don't think IT, Panda or the use of a spell checker (on their letters) should be mentioned in the same sentence. If you look for a breakdown of you charges they have to print it off from a spread sheet. Greenstar on the other hand do have a hi-tech billing system.


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## Stifster (7 Nov 2007)

JustSomeone said:


> Wild guess - do you have an apostrophe in your name or address? There are still a few IT systems which choke on these.


 
No, the address that they had was completely wrong, town, number, road, estate....

I have no idea how the bin got to us in the first place!


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## JustSomeone (7 Nov 2007)

BlueSpud said:


> If the council stopped maintaining the roads etc, I bet they could drop their charges too.



Funny, you'd imagine that with VRT, Car Tax, a cut from road tolls and not to mention PAYE, there would be something to put towards the roads.

Again, when bin charges were introduced we were told explicitly that the charges would just cover the cost of the refuse service, and not go funding anything else. Otherwise, this is nothing but the "double taxation" that the lefties warned us it was.


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## JustSomeone (7 Nov 2007)

Stifster said:


> I have no idea how the bin got to us in the first place!



I was wondering that myself...


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