# God save the King: Civil Service Privellige Days for "Kings Birthday and Empire Day"



## RoyRover (28 Mar 2011)

And again we are the laughing stock of the world...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/mar/22/ireland

Now that the Labour comrades hold the balance of power - at least we would hope to see some parity of esteem with the private sector workers and public sector workers handing back these extra days holliers in the national interest. 

Mind your head now for those pigs flying overhead, as our little country slides further into the mire...


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## NOAH (28 Mar 2011)

Look at it this way, if the government was so keen, why did they opt for 15 junior ministers??   and 15 actual ministers, plus a super minister!!  What does a junior minister do, apart from laughing all the way to the bank.  The simple fact is they are all at it.

The only way to lead is from the top so if the tops acts the pric big time it cascades down the line.  Look at the banks, paying golf membership for pensioners!! 

noah


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## Deiseblue (28 Mar 2011)

NOAH said:


> Look at it this way, if the government was so keen, why did they opt for 15 junior ministers??   and 15 actual ministers, plus a super minister!!  What does a junior minister do, apart from laughing all the way to the bank.  The simple fact is they are all at it.
> 
> The only way to lead is from the top so if the tops acts the pric big time it cascades down the line.  Look at the banks, paying golf membership for pensioners!!
> 
> noah



The Banks do not pay golf memberships for pensioners .

On production of a receipt they will make a maximum contribution of 329 euros towards club fees , such contribution is then taxed at the highest tax rate which applies to each individual pensioner.

This applies to the vast majority of pensioners although retired execs get more by way of reimbursement.


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## Deiseblue (29 Mar 2011)

RoyRover said:


> And again we are the laughing stock of the world...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/mar/22/ireland
> 
> ...



The employers and the Unions representing staff presented their cases to an independent arbitration board who found that the employers failed to substantiate their argument.

I fail to see how the Labour Party are involved in this process but am hugely heartened by your view that the party hold the balance of power !


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## liaconn (29 Mar 2011)

RoyRover said:


> And again we are the laughing stock of the world...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/mar/22/ireland
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry. We've screwed up our economy in the most appalling way, we have just received the findings of the Moriarty Tribunal, we have former Government Ministers being exposed for this, that and the other every second week. And you think Civil Servant's holidays are making us the laughing stock of the world?????


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## MrMan (29 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> I'm sorry. We've screwed up our economy in the most appalling way, we have just received the findings of the Moriarty Tribunal, we have former Government Ministers being exposed for this, that and the other every second week. And you think Civil Servant's holidays are making us the laughing stock of the world?????



I think most of the above could be levelled at a lot of countries, but most claiming independence from an agressive occupying state would not contemplate having days to honour their previous oppressors.


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## liaconn (29 Mar 2011)

Seriously, you think that's why we're the laughing stock of the world? I don't think so.  Also, that is not what privilege days have been for in many many years. They are two leave days that you had to take at Easter and Christmas because the buildings closed down. If we were to follow your logic, people who don't believe in God and saints shouldn't be celebrating St Patrick's day and calling it a bank holiday.


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## Howitzer (29 Mar 2011)

Deiseblue said:


> The Banks do not pay golf memberships for pensioners .
> 
> On production of a receipt they will make a maximum contribution of 329 euros towards club fees , such contribution is then taxed at the highest tax rate which applies to each individual pensioner.
> 
> This applies to the vast majority of pensioners although retired execs get more by way of reimbursement.


Are you being pedantic or defending the practice?

Some Banks make a contribution to golf membership of pensioners.

I don't see how this is defensible when those banks are effectively bankrupt and laying off, literally, thousands of their current staff.


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## Sylvester3 (29 Mar 2011)

I don't really see the problem, according to the article after the war the days were reallocated to Christmas and Easter, so they were no longer 'in honour' of Britains institutions. I am an athiest, I have thrown off the shackles of religion and faith, yet I quite happily take the holidays that were originally instituted for the purposes of celebrating that. 

If they are to go then there needs to be negotiation between the employees and the employer, not a dirty tricks campaign to make people look foolish.


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## dereko1969 (29 Mar 2011)

It's a stupid article - her comment beneath in which she *presumes* that the civil servants who worked hugely long hours at the time of the IMF deal were allowed time off in lieu shows how little research she did. People at my grade don't get time off in lieu for working very long hours and those who worked in Finance at the time didn't get time off in lieu.


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## Ceist Beag (29 Mar 2011)

Agree with the last two posters - the article is poorly written and also obviously poorly researched based on what derek states. The title of the article (Irish civil servants get day off for King. Almost 100 years after independence, it has emerged that civil servants still get days off to celebrate the monarch's birthday) is complete nonsense, admitted by the journalist later in the article where she points out that they days were reallocated to a day off at Easter and at Christmas - so quite obviously they are no longer celebrating the monarch's birthday! As liaconn has pointed out, if we're getting so worked up about this non story then we've really lost the bigger picture here!


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## Deiseblue (29 Mar 2011)

Howitzer said:


> Are you being pedantic or defending the practice?
> 
> Some Banks make a contribution to golf membership of pensioners.
> 
> I don't see how this is defensible when those banks are effectively bankrupt and laying off, literally, thousands of their current staff.



Nope , simply pointing out that the major Banks do not pay the golf membership for pensioners as claimed by a previous poster- they simply make a taxable contribution to same - big difference .

The Banks are unpopular enough without adding fuel to the fire by incorrectly presuming that the Banks are paying out thousands of euros to enable individual pensioners to join golf clubs - pure balderdash !

I'm simply setting the record straight.


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## Sunny (29 Mar 2011)

Stupid lazy article. The reason it was such a news item was that it was an example of the difficulties the Croke Park Agreement faced when bringing in reforms. Not a mention of that though.


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## liaconn (29 Mar 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> It's a stupid article - her comment beneath in which she *presumes* that the civil servants who worked hugely long hours at the time of the IMF deal were allowed time off in lieu shows how little research she did.


 
I noticed that too. She should get her facts right before she throws insults around. Not only would they not have got time off in lieu, they probably weren't even able to take their allocation of annual leave for the year due to pressure of work.


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## Purple (29 Mar 2011)

Sunny said:


> Stupid lazy article. The reason it was such a news item was that it was an example of the difficulties the Croke Park Agreement faced when bringing in reforms. Not a mention of that though.



+1.
The Brits are trying to deflect from their own problems at the moment.


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## shnaek (29 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> She should get her facts right


Very few journalists commenting on Ireland's fiscal collapse have their facts right. Thus there is an amount of ignorance out there about the entire situation. Facts have been bypassed in favour of sentiment. Hard to get the facts about anything in the papers these days, though some are more knowledgeable than others.


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## csirl (29 Mar 2011)

Deiseblue said:


> The Banks do not pay golf memberships for pensioners .
> 
> On production of a receipt they will make a maximum contribution of 329 euros towards club fees , such contribution is then taxed at the highest tax rate which applies to each individual pensioner.
> 
> This applies to the vast majority of pensioners although retired execs get more by way of reimbursement.


 

The banks should not be paying towards golf, or any other type of club, fees for anyone full stop. The tab for this is ultimately picked up by the taxpayer.


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## Bronte (30 Mar 2011)

Deiseblue said:


> Nope , simply pointing out that the major Banks do not pay the golf membership for pensioners as claimed by a previous poster- they simply make a taxable contribution to same - big difference .
> 
> .


 
You've no idea how much it cheers me up to learn that our bankrupt banks who I'm paying for in taxes are using the money given to them by taxpayers to help ex employees play golf. It makes not a blind bit of difference whether the money is in cash or a taxable contribution.  It is absolutely obscene.


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## Deiseblue (30 Mar 2011)

Bronte said:


> You've no idea how much it cheers me up to learn that our bankrupt banks who I'm paying for in taxes are using the money given to them by taxpayers to help ex employees play golf. It makes not a blind bit of difference whether the money is in cash or a taxable contribution.  It is absolutely obscene.



I can well understand your ire , however I am merely making the point that the Banks are not paying for pensioners golf membership fees in their entirety as suggested by a previous poster
- they are making a taxable contribution towards same.

Just setting out the facts .


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## MrMan (30 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> Seriously, you think that's why we're the laughing stock of the world? I don't think so.  Also, that is not what privilege days have been for in many many years. They are two leave days that you had to take at Easter and Christmas because the buildings closed down. If we were to follow your logic, people who don't believe in God and saints shouldn't be celebrating St Patrick's day and calling it a bank holiday.



No I actually don't think that we are a laughing stock at all. I don't presume for one minute that we are taken as seriously on the global stage that many seem to fret so much about. 
If there were two days off for the King & the empire and they were subsequently removed then replacing them with two different days off is simply moving the goalposts.

I believe in God, but I worked St Patricks day and didn't get paid extra for it so i'm not sure your analogy stands up.


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## liaconn (30 Mar 2011)

MrMan said:


> No I actually don't think that we are a laughing stock at all. I don't presume for one minute that we are taken as seriously on the global stage that many seem to fret so much about.
> If there were two days off for the King & the empire and they were subsequently removed then replacing them with two different days off is simply moving the goalposts.
> 
> I believe in God, but I worked St Patricks day and didn't get paid extra for it so i'm not sure your analogy stands up.


 
Of course it stands up. How many people worked on Patrick's day? And how many people practise their religion?


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## ashambles (30 Mar 2011)

> They are two leave days that you had to take at Easter and Christmas because the buildings closed down


A mixup of cause and effect, perhaps? 

Am I correct in saying the Easter rescheduled-British-royal-privilege day occurs the Tuesday after Easter?  

Would I be correct in saying the building is closed down BECAUSE the staff are off on a privilege day?  

The alternative of a building somehow closing and causing staff to all go on holiday seems less plausible.

Incidentally this year the May weekend follows the Easter one, let's just say you'd want want to need urgent work done by a public office from 21-April to 3-May.


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## Shawady (30 Mar 2011)

ashambles said:


> Am I correct in saying the Easter rescheduled-British-royal-privilege day occurs the Tuesday after Easter?


 
In my department you are given the option of the Tuesday or the Thursday before good friday. Managment then have to make sure there is enough staff on these two days so that everyone doesn't take the Tuesday for example. We do not 'close down' on either day.


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## MrMan (30 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> Of course it stands up. How many people worked on Patrick's day? And how many people practise their religion?


 
St Patricks day has been turned into an excuse for a session, which I suppose follows that the priviledge days are an excuse to have extra paid holidays.


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## circle (30 Mar 2011)

Shawady said:


> In my department you are given the option of the Tuesday or the Thursday before good friday. Managment then have to make sure there is enough staff on these two days so that everyone doesn't take the Tuesday for example. We do not 'close down' on either day.


 
Is the privilege day actually in addition to good Friday? I always thought the Privilege days were used in practice to give good Friday and christmas eve off?


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## becky (31 Mar 2011)

circle said:


> Is the privilege day actually in addition to good Friday? I always thought the Privilege days were used in practice to give good Friday and christmas eve off?



That's what I thought my two were for, never knew it was for the kings birthday.

When I worked in Galway we got 1and  1/2 days for the races.  We use to be annoyed that Ballinasloe staff got the race days and the fair. We galway city based staff felt we should have got the fair as well.  Oh how times have changed.

From later posts here it looks like civil servants get Tuesday after Easter Monday as well.  I remember some one telling me this years ago.  It was to ensure all the country girls and boys could celebrate easter with interruption without having to worry about getting bus/train.


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## Shawady (31 Mar 2011)

circle said:


> Is the privilege day actually in addition to good Friday? I always thought the Privilege days were used in practice to give good Friday and christmas eve off?


 
Yes, the two days are the 27th December and the Tuesday OR Thursday of the Easter weekend.


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## liaconn (31 Mar 2011)

At one stage it was because the buildings closed down on those days. Now they open and staff can take them within a month of Easter or Christmas. Shortly they will not be ringfenced for taking at a particular time but will be allowed to be used at any time during the year like the rest of our annual leave.   They have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Kings' birthdays or whatever. They may have had generations and generations ago, but not anymore. In the same way that school holidays were originally designed around the agricultural year, but not any more. And people got Sundays off work to go to Church and rest, not go shopping or go to the pub or whatever. We could go back donkeys years on everything if we were to take all this to its logical conclusion.


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## becky (31 Mar 2011)

Shawady said:


> Yes, the two days are the 27th December and the Tuesday OR Thursday of the Easter weekend.



What about good Friday? Does that make it 3 privilege days then?  

I forgot about Christmas eve which I also get, so I get 3 in total.


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## liaconn (31 Mar 2011)

I think loads of places give their staff Good Friday off. Civil Servants have to go into work on Christmas Eve (although let go home very early) or take a day's leave.


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## Shawady (31 Mar 2011)

becky said:


> What about good Friday? Does that make it 3 privilege days then?
> 
> I forgot about Christmas eve which I also get, so I get 3 in total.


 
I get good friday off but not christmas eve. Thats a normal working day.


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## TarfHead (31 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> I think loads of places give their staff Good Friday off.


 
Isn't Good Friday a public holiday, as opposed to a bank holiday ?

And isn't Easter Monday a bank holiday, but not a public holiday ?

I always assumed the PS privilege days to be for those days that are bank holidays and not public holidays, e.g. Good Friday and the working day following the two public holidays at Christmas.


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## becky (31 Mar 2011)

TarfHead said:


> Isn't Good Friday a public holiday, as opposed to a bank holiday ?
> 
> And isn't Easter Monday a bank holiday, but not a public holiday ?
> 
> I always assumed the PS privilege days to be for those days that are bank holidays and not public holidays, e.g. Good Friday and the working day following the two public holidays at Christmas.



I consider anything over my A/L and not a public holiday a privilege / concession day.

Good Friday is a bank holiday, Easter Monday is a public holiday. 

Most people get it off but it's a normal working day for those who have to work.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> I think loads of places give their staff Good Friday off.



We close on good friday. It counts as one of our 20 days leave.


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## TarfHead (31 Mar 2011)

becky said:


> Good Friday is a bank holiday, Easter Monday is a public holiday.
> 
> Most people get it off but it's a normal working day for those who have to work.


 
My bad  thanks

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e..._and_holidays/public_holidays_in_ireland.html


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## MrMan (1 Apr 2011)

Good Friday is another working day for me as well and has been in all jobs in the last 10 years (for me). I would imagine the service industry and anyone needing to make deadlines are in the same boat.


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## Complainer (1 Apr 2011)

Isn't it great to see all this intense focus and publicity on a €4.6m problem (privilige days) as we hand over another €24 billlion to the banks?


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## Shawady (1 Apr 2011)

Thats assuming removing privledge days would save €4.6 million. The government were unable to show ho this saving would be made.


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## TarfHead (1 Apr 2011)

Complainer said:


> Isn't it great to see all this intense focus and publicity on a €4.6m problem (privilige days) as we hand over another €24 billlion to the banks?


 
I'm sure there are many people more concerned about the bank bailout, but just cos there are more important issues does not mean that this one should be dismissed.

We're up to, at least, 3 different spellings for privilege  !


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## Complainer (1 Apr 2011)

Shawady said:


> Thats assuming removing privledge days would save €4.6 million. The government were unable to show ho this saving would be made.


Actually, there would be zero saving. There would be an increase in productivity, but there would be zero cash saving.


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## thesimpsons (1 Apr 2011)

Complainer said:


> Isn't it great to see all this intense focus and publicity on a €4.6m problem (privilige days) as we hand over another €24 billlion to the banks?


 

you've gotta make a start with saving money somewhere - increased productivity is money saved.  

Never had Good friday off in over 20 yrs of work in variety of industry and professional work places.  Its an archic joke giving good friday off unless its from your annual allocation.


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## MrMan (1 Apr 2011)

Complainer said:


> Isn't it great to see all this intense focus and publicity on a €4.6m problem (privilige days) as we hand over another €24 billlion to the banks?



Watch the pennys and the pounds will take care of themselves. Like a lot of problems in Ireland today, perception has a real part to play.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2011)

Complainer said:


> Actually, there would be zero saving. There would be an increase in productivity, but there would be zero cash saving.



On top of all the increases we've got from the two rounds of benchmarking and the Croke park agreement?!
Bloody hell, we must have the most productive public sector in the world by now!


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## Complainer (1 Apr 2011)

thesimpsons said:


> - increased productivity is money saved.


No, it's not. There will be no cash saving. The same number of people will be employed. They will just be working for two extra days a year. There will be no saving.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2011)

If 2 extra days are worked them that's 1% more hours so staff numbers could be cut by 1% with no loss in productivity.
What's the total spend on public sector wages per year?


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## Firefly (1 Apr 2011)

Purple said:


> If 2 extra days are worked them that's 1% more hours so staff numbers could be cut by 1% with no loss in productivity.
> What's the total spend on public sector wages per year?



You'll need an abacus for that one


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## RoyRover (1 Apr 2011)

Purple said:


> What's the total spend on public sector wages per year?


 
About 50 - 60% more than it should be


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