# Ulster Bank fined €34m over trackers



## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

I have attached the full statement from the Central Bank, but here is my briefing note on the issue

*Central Bank’s findings *

1. Failed to disclose to impacted tracker customers all the consequences of fixing their interest rates;

2. Devised and implemented a deliberate strategy not to provide certain customers with their correct tracker mortgage entitlement unless they complained and to treat those customers who did complain in an inequitable manner;

3. Failed to adequately implement the TME’s Stop the Harm principles to protect all potentially impacted tracker customers from further detriment;

4. Failed to ensure that its operational systems and controls were sufficient to ensure that its customers were provided with their correct tracker mortgage entitlements;

5. Devised and implemented a deliberate strategy of encouraging customers to convert their tracker rates to fixed rates between August and October 2008;

Schedule of tracker fines

Springboard (ptsb subsidiary)€4.5mNov 2016Ptsb€21mMay 2019KBC€18mSeptember 2020Ulster Bank€38m

Previous Ulster Bank fines


Mortgage Arrears€4.6 mMarch 2020Anti money laundering€3.325mNove 16IT failures€3.5m2016?


In addition to this, Ulster Bank has topped the Ombudsman’s list of Upheld Complaints in 2019. See below.

*What was so egregious about the Ulster Bank case? *


They knew that some customers had a right to trackers, but they did not give them to them unless they complained. The Central Bank has not made this finding against any other lender.
Even when they complained, Ulster Bank put up all sorts of barriers in their way. Forcing them to go to the Ombudsman and not conceding until the very last minute.
_Furthermore, customers who did complain (in relation to 352 mortgage accounts) were_
_managed on a case-by-case basis and were not all afforded the same redress and_
_compensation. Later, as more customers complained and were returned to tracker rates,_
_UBID introduced a questionnaire designed to test the extent to which a complainant was_
_“genuinely” confused as to their default interest rate as opposed to whether a complainant_
_had submitted a complaint on the basis that they had heard that other customers with similar terms and conditions had, following complaints, been returned to their original tracker rate. This put in place a higher evidential bar for complaining customers. UBID also did not return all customers who complained by way of filling out the questionnaire to their original tracker rate or provide them with compensation. As a result of UBID’s treatment of complaints, all impacted customers did not receive their correct redress and compensation until the Central Bank required UBID to provide it to them under the auspices of the TME. _


In 2008, they had a deliberate campaign to encourage people off their trackers. The Central Bank fined KBC for doing the same thing. It was alleged against permanent tsb, but the Central Bank did not find that this happened.
They did not “stop the harm” in time. When they knew people were impacted, they should have told them immediately. The effect of this was that 7 people sold their homes because their mortgages were not sustainable. Had they been told earlier, they would have kept their homes.
*Other issues common in the tracker cases *


The documentation wasn’t clear enough
They did not tell people that they would lose their trackers if they fixed
Their systems to identify those affected were terrible
*How do the other banks compare? *

In 2011, the Ombudsman upheld a number of complaints against Bank of Ireland on a systemic tracker issue. Bank of Ireland faced up to it and put 2,096 customers back on trackers, whether or not they had complained.


This was the right thing to do for customers
It was the right thing to do for the bank – they faced no huge compensation claims by dragging it out for 10 years.
*How good a job has the Central Bank done? *

Back in 2010 when the Ombudsman upheld these complaints against Ulster Bank, the Ombudsman sent them to the Central Bank. There was widespread reporting on Askaboutmoney and in the media of these cases. But the Central Bank did nothing.

Having said that, the current team has done a great job. Ulster Bank made it quite clear than they would not have given trackers back to people unless they had complained. Very few ever complained. Without the Central Bank intervention, these customers would still be paying the highest mortgage rates in the Eurozone.

*What lessons can we learn? *

When the Ombudsman makes a finding in a case that affects other people in the same cohort, the Ombudsman must have the power to direct the financial institution to apply that finding to all other customers in that cohort.

The Ombudsman must be given the power to go public on the issue including naming the institution involved so that others who might be affected by it, can raise a complaint with the institution.



[broken link removed] in 2019 – page 31

(Ulster Bank did not appear on the Top Ten list in 2018)


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## SaySomething (25 Mar 2021)

I wish I could say I feel vindicated. I just feel numb. There has to be more than this. It's clear that management decided in 2011 based upon a financial review that it was not going to return customers to their tracker rates unless they complained. Will there be any convictions or sanctions on the individuals concerned?


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## UB_TME (25 Mar 2021)

Probably not. Unbelievable really.


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

None of this is news to me. I took my own ombudsman case against Ulster which I lost (not tracker) and it was clear to me when I dealt with Ulster they had a deliberate policy of writing letters to me which ignoring the points in my compliant. At that time, which I didn't know, I had zero chance of succeeding with the ombudsman back then.  His office were useless. 

And not a bit surprised that the *Central Bank* did nothing back in 2010.


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

Central Bank on RTE discussing this.  Praising themselves in relation to their actions when asked by RTE did they do anything in 2011.  And saying it's the banks fault.  Absolving the Central Bank of any blame.

https://askaboutmoney.com/threads/s...investment-property.104951/page-2#post-909488 Me in 2009:

_I hope the ombudsman goes further though and orders all banks who have changed the original terms and conditions of the calculation of mortgage interest for investments which were under home loan rates initially into investment loan rates. I don't think it's good enough that it only applies to cases where clients have taken a case to the regulator.

This all leads to another question, (maybe this should be another thread)
Where the Ombudsman has directed the Financial regulator to look into certain 'sharp' practices or procedures, where is the follow up on this? Is the Financial regulator obliged to do what the ombudsman suggest or is it merely that, a suggestion or recommendation?_


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

Bronte said:


> Central Bank on RTE discussing this. Praising themselves in relation to their actions when asked by RTE did they do anything in 2011. And saying it's the banks fault. Absolving the Central Bank of any blame.



I was delighted to hear her being asked this question. 

It appeared in my Briefing Note which I had sent to RTE.

It's tough on Derville. She is relatively new and is doing a great job.  But she doesn't want to slag off her predecessors even though I am sure she knows that they should have jumped on this back in 2009. 

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> they should have jumped on this back in 2009.


My timeline is a bit hazy, but didn't the Central Bank get new powers in this regard around 2011 or 2012?


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> My timeline is a bit hazy, but didn't the Central Bank get new powers in this regard around 2011 or 2012?



I am not good on timelines either. But they were not toothless back in 2009. I don't  think that they have ever claimed to be.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

Here are some posts from the time where people had been offered the fixed rate by Ulster Bank in an effort to get them off their trackers.






						Fixed Rate Offer
					

Folks,          Being offered the opportunity to move to a fixed rate of 5.40% (typical APR 6.02%) for 2 years "protecting us from further ECB rate increases" .  Would you advise going down this route ? Have till 30th Sept to advise either way.  We've been on the tracker for the last 2+ years...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				




Brendan


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I was delighted to hear her being asked this question.
> 
> It appeared in my Briefing Note which I had sent to RTE.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's good enough.  So what if it's tough on her. Speak the truth.   Getting a bit of a going over in an interview for 30 seconds isn't tough.  Losing your tracker is tough.  Organisations like the Central Bank that still defend the past are part of the problem.  They were a disgrace. Acting like it's different now and they are taking action now is of no benefit to the people who lost their homes while the Central Bank did nothing. And they knew.  Derville (I didn't catch her name or position) did a lovely job on glossing over the CB's role by stating it's all the Banks fault what went on.  This was a failure of the Central Bank too.






						Could the Central Bank have limited LTV's years ago?
					

The property bubble was a result of cheap credit and massive LTV mortgages. We all knew it was happening. What could have been done to stop it? While tax reliefs added to the bubble they were not the major factor; cheap credit was, so given that we could not control access to cheap credit what...



					askaboutmoney.com
				









						An idea about a bank protest...
					

For all of the reckless stupidity,economic treason and arrogance that the banks have indulged in, we seem to have accepted the need to bail them out with a submissiveness that I still find hard to understand.  So, I was thinking about how to protest in a way that would actually get at the...



					askaboutmoney.com
				









						Mortgage arrears and repossessions still surprisingly low
					

The Central Bank issued its [broken link removed] figures yesterday, so it’s a good time to review what happened in 2010. Let’s look at repossessions first.        Repossessions    Repossessions on foot of a court order during 2010|102   Voluntarily surrendered or abandoned|262   Total|364  It...



					askaboutmoney.com
				









						MBNA fined €750,000 by Central Bank for overcharging
					

This is the overcharging which occurred in 2009 which was discussed here.         Settlement Agreement between the Central Bank of Ireland and MBNA Europe Bank Limited        The Central Bank of Ireland (“the Central Bank”) entered into a Settlement Agreement on 21 June 2011 with MBNA Europe...



					askaboutmoney.com
				









						stop blaming mortgage holders
					

There are quite a number of people who demand antibiotics and won't leave the GP be unless they get them.  The GP is more to blame -  patients can shout and roar all they like but if the GPs won't prescribe the drug the patient doesn't get the drug - it is that simple. In the context of some of...



					askaboutmoney.com
				









						Bank of Ireland - Another success!  BoI reinstates another tracker from a fixed rate!
					

Originally |tracker March 2007|fixed for two years March 2009 - March 2011|variable March 2011|fixed for three years April 2011|BoI wrote to say I should have been offered tracker   I was originally on a tracker and then fixed for 2 years.  When my first fixed period expired in March 2009, the...



					askaboutmoney.com
				




So no I don't feel sorry for someone in the Central Bank on the radio.


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

Ulster Bank hit with record €38m fine over tracker mortgage breaches
					

ULSTER Bank has been fined a record €38m for denying thousands of customers tracker rates.




					www.independent.ie
				




- bank deliberately devised a scheme to avoid giving people good value trackers when they were entitled to them.

- regulators had to seek to take High Court action to get the bank to provide it with documents related to the scandal.

- 49 separate regulatory breaches 

*this bit drives me nuts:*

- The fine would have been €54m but the bank got a 30pc discount for co-operating with the Central Bank.

after they had to go to court to get documents 

- devised and implemented a deliberate strategy not to provide some customers with their correct tracker mortgage entitlement

*I would suggest that anyone who believe this*

- She said fine should serve as a clear message to the wider market of the importance of compliance with the fundamental requirements of the Central Bank’s Consumer Protection Codes.

*believes in the tooth fairy.  Where are the names of the decision makers.  Where is the individual accountability. Where is the apology from the Central Bank for their failing to stop this for the last 15 years.  *


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## Zebedee (25 Mar 2021)

Bronte said:


> The fine would have been €54m but the bank got a 30pc discount for co-operating with the Central Bank.



At this stage I’m wondering how bad you have to be not to get the 30pc discount.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

Bronte said:


> *this bit drives me nuts:*
> 
> - The fine would have been €54m but the bank got a 30pc discount for co-operating with the Central Bank.



Hi Bronte

The directors in the Irish Nationwide refused to accept a sanction from the Central Bank.  So the Central Bank has been bogged down in a public inquiry for years now on it.



			https://www.centralbank.ie/news-media/legal-notices/inquiry-hearings/irish-nationwide-building-society-inquiry
		


So Ulster Bank could have said "We have done nothing wrong. If you want, take us to the Administrative Sanctions Committee" and this would not be resolved for at least another ten years.

Brendan


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Bronte
> 
> The directors in the Irish Nationwide refused to accept a sanction from the Central Bank.  So the Central Bank has been bogged down in a public inquiry for years now on it.
> 
> ...


If something is taking 10 years than the system is not fit for purpose. And the Central Bank should inform the public and the government that the system needs changing. 

The simple fact is that the Central Bank didn't want to take action on the banks after the collapse as they were not customer orientated. Instead they were in cahoots with the bankers. If a bank is fined 30 million, which will be paid by the customers, then why are the individuals who created the systems of deceit against consumers not being named, shamed and jailed.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2021)

If any of you have any evidence or suspicion of criminal behaviour, go to the Garda.

Don't confuse immoral , unethical, or breaches of the code which are civil matters with criminal matters.

The Central Bank is always on the lookout for criminal behaviour, and when they see evidence of it, they refer it to the Garda. 

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 Mar 2021)

Bronte said:


> The simple fact is that the Central Bank didn't want to take action on the banks after the collapse as they were not customer orientated. Instead they were in cahoots with the bankers.



I think we have to recognise that institutions can and do change, and sometimes for the better.

There has been a real change in appetite to impose big sanctions over the last 5 years at the Central Bank. You can browse enforcement actions here and you can see that they have really increased in scale in the last few years.


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## SaySomething (25 Mar 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I think we have to recognise that institutions can and do change, and sometimes for the better.
> 
> There has been a real change in appetite to impose big sanctions over the last 5 years at the Central Bank. You can browse enforcement actions here and you can see that they have really increased in scale in the last few years.


Sanctions do not equate to culture change within any institution. Ulster Bank is an excellent example of that.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 Mar 2021)

SaySomething said:


> Sanctions do not equate to culture change within any institution. Ulster Bank is an excellent example of that.


Yes but I was talking about the Central Bank in its enforcement role.


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

Padraic Kissane was on RTE.  He mentioned there is *no culpability.* That he's being dealing with this for 12 years. That he 'hopes' that the Ulster bank will now deal with his other cases because they said they were going to be proactive from now on.  (I reckon he will be waiting).  Said the CB don't have enough powers.

Now being discussed with Jim O'Callaghan. Asked did the CB need more powers and he said they had plenty of extensive powers. Mention of the Gardai investigating.  RTE said in other countries the regulators have the powers to go after individuals. Jim says fitness and probity - administrative sanction route. Jim said the CB has the power to hold individuals to account. And the Gardai have fitness and probity powers.

ODC mentioned. ( a lot of waffle if you ask me). 

Word 'f i t ne ss' changes to 'spam'


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I think we have to recognise that institutions can and do change, and sometimes for the better.
> 
> There has been a real change in appetite to impose big sanctions over the last 5 years at the Central Bank. You can browse enforcement actions here and you can see that they have really increased in scale in the last few years.


I don't think a leopard will ever change it's spot.  UB only came this far when dragging kicking and screaming. Not one person is going to be held to account and that tells us all we need to know. The 'corporate' entity has been fined. It will be paid by the customers. Why would those in charge change.  There's no sanctions on any of them. They are just getting better at 'acting' they are better. If they were better Padraic Kissane wouldn't still have to fight them all the way *still.*


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## SaySomething (25 Mar 2021)

Ironically, as the news broke of the fine, I was corresponding with the FSPO regarding the exact same bank not meeting deadlines set by the Ombudsman. Nothing changes.


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## SGWidow (26 Mar 2021)

Some great comments from Bronte and others.

Clearly, the regulatory system is not fit for purpose.

These events date back to the noughties and a 30% discount is given for an early settlement in 2021 with a "hope" that UB will do right by other customers!

I've had some experience with the CB in the relatively recent past - I found them pretty inept/rudderless.


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## deanpark (26 Mar 2021)

I lost a BTL through the tracker related actions of EBS/ AIB and can sympathise with those who were done wrong by Ulster. Padraic Kissane represented my case and I got a very large settlement (after 3 years of being told via BDO where to go by EBS) which was great but didn't compensate for the grief, worry and family trauma. 

If you've been a victim of tracker banking skullduggery I recommended paying for good representation and give yourself a fighting chance to get compensation & turn the tables on this shower of chancers. And be careful of self-appointed experts on AAM giving you advice or downplaying YOUR issues - rely on professionals at the end of the day for definitive advice.


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## Trackman (26 Mar 2021)

I second that. Many people here think losing your home was your own fault and you're not entitled to substantial redress. Unfortunately the EBS tracker redress and appeals system did not find in my favour for a lost home. But hey, that's what courts are for. 

Congrats on the compensation deanpark.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Mar 2021)

Folks

This is an important thread and I want to keep it open.

Nor do I want to ban anyone from Askaboutmoney.

But I do not want to have my home put on the line by people making reckless allegations of criminal behaviour.

The fact that someone does something deliberately does not mean that it is fraud.

If anyone has evidence of criminal behaviour , even if you have suspicion of criminal behaviour, then you should go to the Garda with it. You should not be making these allegations in public as they would reduce the chances of a successful conviction.

Any further allegations of fraud here will be deleted and the poster banned.

Brendan


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