# Eligibility for both UK and Irish Pensions?



## Ziboo

I lived and worked in the UK for a number of years paying National Insurance contributions and am now living and working in Ireland.
I have received a letter from the UK Inland revenue giving me the option to pay voluntary UK National Insurance contributions for the years since I left to count towards a UK state pension.
I understand that there is an agreement between EU countries where a contribution paid in one country can be put towards a pension in country of retirement but am not sure how this would impact the scenario where I could obtain both a UK and Irish pension.
Could anyone advise, is it worth topping up my UK National Insurance contributions to attain my UK pension as I expect to attain full Irish pension entitlement, or would it mean that my Irish state pension would be reduced accordingly for the amount paid from the UK making the additional UK contribution pointless?


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## Black Sheep

Before making any decision you would need to find out from UK Pensions how much Pension you would be entitled to if you leave things as they are,how much you would need to pay in to achieve what? Do I suspect you are coming up to pension age since you are asking these questions as the Irish pension age differs from the UK depending on whether you are male of female.

It is usually more fianacially beneficial to apply seperately to both countries as you appear to have a substantial number of contributions in both places.

Some more details regarding when you become pension age and how many years you have worked in each country would help

The maximum pension you can receive is 100% from one country and 98% from another


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## roker

I have a similar situation I am almost 65 with approx 25 year contribution in Ireland and 25 UK. I think I can claim UK at 65 but the Irish is not until 66. I have no idea what amount I am entitled to claim.


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## Black Sheep

If you are retired and have sufficient contributions paid you *may* be entitled to your Irish pension at 65 so therefore you should apply asap to pensions office by completing the Application Form (available at any Post Office of Citizens Information Centre) 
If you have insufficient contributions at age 65 they will inform you and you can remind them when you are coming up to 66 of your previous application

25 years worked in Ireland should get you a 98% pension approximately at age 66


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## Ziboo

Thanks for the information, 
I still have some way to go to retirement, but have approx 14 years of UK insurance contributions and currently approx 10 years of Irish contributions (with 20ish more years of potential contribution in Ireland to go). 
A previous estimate was that it would lead to a UK pension of approx £80 a week (at todays prices)
With the possibility to backdate and continue with voluntary contributions to obtain a UK pension it seems like a good idea to pay approx £400GBP per year if this is leads to the UK pension in addition to the Irish state pension and not just replacing part of it which will already be paid for by PRSI contributions


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## Black Sheep

With 30ish years pension contributions in Ireland you could expect a98% pension at age 65 based on current regulations. Who knows what changes will be made in the next 20 years.

As regards the UK pension if you think it is good value for money to continue your contributions then do so. 

I'm not very clued into the UK system. Takes me all my time to keep up with the Irish one


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## Ziboo

Thanks for the info


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## Welfarite

I know of friends who found that the offer to top up their UK contributions had the potential to be very beneficial them to them. Most of them see it as a "no brainer", with contributions of 300 odd annually over 4-5 years, which will but entitled to a much better pension. 

There are a few websites i think that explain how the UK is in transition mode until 2012 as regards staet pensions and I think you'll find a time limit on when you can take up the offer of extra contributions. Did they send you a detailed letter on this? My friends got that and were able to work out cost v potential benefits quite easily.


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## Black Sheep

I was recently at a re-union of former work colleagues where we met many old friends. Among them was a couple who had worked in England for over 20 years and approximately 25 years in Ireland. They had kept up their UK contributions while working in Ireland.

They are now retired and have a full Uk pension plus a 98% Irish pension each plus Company pensions from both countries each. Thenkfully they are in good health and are having the time of their lives. Oh to be so wise!


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## Cluain

I was born in '42 and will be 66 this year.

My first 20 years were lived in Ireland. The last two of these years were spent at UCD and for six months of them I worked in a Dublin based insurance company, presumably paying pension contributions.

Later I returned to Ireland aged 31 (in '73) to study medicine. I qualified in '79.

A large part of my working life was spent in the UK and since last year when I was 65 I have been receiving a UK State Pension. This is based on 24 years worth of NI contributions, 11 years of which were voluntary contributions paid just before my 65th birthday. I receive 60.90 GBP per week.

During '64 - '65 I worked for the New York Herald Tribune (now the IHT) in Paris. 
Whether the pay I received involved any insurance contributions, I don't know.

I have also worked as a doctor in Australia, in all for 9 months.

I spent the summer of '74, while I was a student at UCC, working in a hotel in San Francisco.

I '83 I joined Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) and was posted to a refugee camp in Thailand. In '84 the camp closed and I remained on in Thailand and continued working with the hilltribe group who were the occupants of the camp I'd been in. (The camp was for hilltribe refugees from Laos.) This was not medical work. I marketed handicrafts made by the hilltribe. (I considered the main problem for this group was economic rather than medical.) My income came from this activity.

In '93 and again in '98 I had heart attacks which slowed me up. The introduction of new drugs, mainly the statins, have improved my cardiac condition.

The voluntary UK NI contirbution took up most of my savings and the UK pension, after paying for medication, leaves very little for living expenses. Recently I have been buying generic medication from India although there are doubts about its reliability.

I own a flat in Thailand.

Are any options open to me to receive an Irish pension?

Thanks.


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## Welfarite

From the above, you only worked for 6 months in Ireland so it is unlikely that you will qualify for an Irish State Pension. The best way top find out is to apply for one, quoting your work history. If you are only recieving 60,90 GBG pension, you may qualify of the means-tested Irish pension to top it up. Again, it would be best to apply for it. See here for details of means-tests and applying for state pensions.


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## Cluain

Thanks, Welfarite.

I've looked at the site you linked. The Habitual Residence condition is a problem for me. I lived my first 41 years in Ireland and the 'Common Travel Area'. Since then I have been in SE Asia and still live there. Is there any point in applying do you think?


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## Welfarite

I didn't realise that you were not resident in Ireland now, which means there is no point in applying for the non-contriburory state pension as you would have to be resident here.


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## Cluain

Do you know if there is any provision in Ireland, as they have in the UK, to give a pension to Irish nationals who are resident abroad?

The UK pension I receive was calculated on the basis of my residency outside the UK and is less than it would be were I resident in the UK. For example, Pension Credit is not applicable to non-UK residents but would (?) come into play were I to establish Habitual Residency in the UK. But who decides this and how? This would, I understand, bring my pension to approx. 119GBP per week.

Then there is the question of reciprocal agreements. Is it possible to lump together all one's work experience in the countries in this agreement to be used in the calculation of a contributory Irish pension given that I am an Irish national/passport holder? If this were a possibility I assume I would have to give up my UK pension.


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## Black Sheep

There are just two types of Pensions in Ireland. State Penion Contributory and State Non Contributory.
State *Non* Contributory is means tested and can only be paid to people living permanently in Ireland.
State Contributory is based on contributions made during your working life in any country that has bi-lateral agreements with Ireland. If there are enough combined contributions (though it does not look very hopefull from the information you give) a reduced pension may be available. The only to find out is to put all your employments on the application form and let the Department work it out


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## Cluain

Thanks, Black Sheep.

I will take your and Welfarite's advice and apply.


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## dandy

Quick question, can anyone supply link or contact number for a suitably qualified advisor to deal with similar case to this thread involving the contracting in and out of the UK second pension scheme as it complicates things even more ? Black Sheep's comments have been very helpfull but even he finds the English one hard going.


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## Black Sheep

I assume you are talking about the UK Social Security Pension so therefore you can get records of any contributions you made during your working life. Not sure how pension is calculated from the records but it is the starting point one requires to work it out


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