# Do you have to use a solicitor for conveyance?



## Catman (21 Oct 2015)

Do you absolutely have to use a solicitor for conveyancing?  It's a really simple transfer between 2 siblings - one is buying the interest in a property of the other. 
I'd feel comfortable drawing up contracts and registering the deeds. Is it a  legal requirement to use a solicitor, and if so do both parties need a different solicitor  (conflict of interest )


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Oct 2015)

I don't think that there is a legal requirement. 

But it's actually a lot more complicated than you think.  You might manage to do it ok on your own, but you could be building up huge problems  as any mistakes might not be noticed for years and they would be difficult and expensive to rectify.

If you decide to do it yourself, you should ask a solicitor to review the work you do to make sure it's ok. 

Brendan


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## Rebuttal (22 Oct 2015)

If, it was a normal conveyance and you are funding the purchase of the conveyance with a mortgage, most mortgage providers will require you to use a solicitor, as the financial institution will wish to fully protect it's interests.

If you have your own funds to purchase the property, then no, it is not a necessity  to employ a solicitor for the conveyance.


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## Bronte (22 Oct 2015)

As far as I know you need two solicitors if you go down that route.

You can also do it yourself.  One would think that the property owning sibling's title is in order as presumably a solicitor did the conveyencing for the original purchase.  In these cases it's the one purchasing who has to be the most careful. 

Is it advisable, most likely not.  But it would be interesting to let us know how you get on.

To help you get started, use the contract your sibling used for the purchase as a template etc.


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## Rebuttal (22 Oct 2015)

Catman,

In your particular case, I would not think that employing a solicitor was necessary.


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## j26 (22 Oct 2015)

There is no legal requirement but it's more complicated than you think. There are many issues and here is just a few;

There are Revenue implications, such as Stamp Duty and possibly CAT/CGT
There are various documents you will need if the purchaser intends to pass it on in the future.
If it involves maps being drawn up, there are particular requirements 
If the land is unregistered, then you have to apply for first registration. This is not something you want to do youself unless you are absolutely sure the title is perfect.
Land is a very valuable asset - is it worth the risk of botching the job?


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## thedaddyman (22 Oct 2015)

there are plenty of examples on here of family squabbles over land and housing, for the sake of a couple of grand, do it right and they may save themselves a major headache down the line


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## Catman (22 Oct 2015)

I have the title deeds and the land is registered.  Clear title was last checked in 2003  when parent's (singular ) mortgage was cleared.  They've since passed away and I have applied for Grant of Probate at which point the property will be in mine and sibling joint name.

I  won't need a mortgage as such as I "sold" my sibling my house  (conveyance done by solicitor ) as payment for the parent house though I do intend getting a mortgage as house requires substantial renovation.

All we really need to do is register the property in my name only and sign a contract.

There is no CAT liability currently.

The reason I am considering doing it myself is a complex yet simple one. I had a solicitor, a family member, who I had asked to act for me. This solicitor will not engage with me and has been obfuscatory yet  it will cause a  family rift if I "go elsewhere " , which is pathetic, but sadly true. The solicitor is not related to my sibling.


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## Sarenco (22 Oct 2015)

I'm afraid you will have to engage a solicitor if you want to raise a mortgage on the property.  

No bank will give you a mortgage without receiving a prescribed form of undertaking and certificate of title from a practising solicitor with the mandatory minimum level of professional indemnity insurance.   

Bear in mind that a mortgage involves a transfer of title to a property from a borrower to a lender - i'm afraid no lender is going to take a punt on your conveyancing skills!


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## j26 (23 Oct 2015)

Mortgages don't involve conveyance of the title any more. The Land & Conveyancing Law Reform Act, 2009 changed it. It's now done by way of charge only.


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## j26 (23 Oct 2015)

OP - what you are planning is a family settlement by way of an exchange. There are several variables to be considered - title, contents of wills, succession, tax etc. Getting it registered is not the problem - the potential issue is whether you end up personally liable if it all goes wrong.
At the very least do your research, and then when you have a course of action planned, get legal advice from a competent solicitor who is familiar with succession and conveyancing law. Then if you feel comfortable, fire ahead, confident that you are on the right path.


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## Rebuttal (23 Oct 2015)

j26 said:


> Mortgages don't involve conveyance of the title any more. The Land & Conveyancing Law Reform Act, 2009 changed it. It's now done by way of charge only.


Sarenco,

Damn government trying to destroy people's livelihood !


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## Rebuttal (23 Oct 2015)

Next thing you know, those blighters in Government may even start to protect consumers.


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## Sarenco (23 Oct 2015)

j26 said:


> Mortgages don't involve conveyance of the title any more. The Land & Conveyancing Law Reform Act, 2009 changed it. It's now done by way of charge only.



That's true of course but a mortgagor cannot transfer the property without the consent of the mortgagee until the mortgage is discharged so the distinction is somewhat theoretical from a borrower's perspective.  In any event, the lender will still want to be assured that the borrower has good marketable title to the property being mortgaged so a solicitor will still be required.


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## mf1 (23 Oct 2015)

"If you decide to do it yourself, you should ask a solicitor to review the work you do to make sure it's ok. "

I don't think so. 

I get this occasionally. 

"Would you just cast your eye over something for me? Tell me it is alright? I don't actually want to pay you but I do want you to take responsibility for when it all goes pear shaped"

"yet it will cause a family rift if I "go elsewhere "

This is not a good enough reason. Everybody needs to grow up and do things properly. 

mf


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## Bronte (23 Oct 2015)

Catman said:


> I have the title deeds and the land is registered.  Clear title was last checked in 2003  when parent's (singular ) mortgage was cleared.  They've since passed away and I have applied for Grant of Probate at which point the property will be in mine and sibling joint name.
> 
> I  won't need a mortgage as such as I "sold" my sibling my house  (conveyance done by solicitor ) as payment for the parent house though I do intend getting a mortgage as house requires substantial renovation.
> 
> ...



It's always amazing how these threads go and how as we go into it the whole situation is totally different to the OP.  EG:

1. Title was not checked in 2003 when a mortgage was cleared, whatever gives you that idea?
2. We have a probate situation
3. Is it necessary to put property in both names (I don't know but a solicitors would)
4. Something about another house, sold, no idea where the monies went for that, to the sibling I think for half the parents house
5. An intention now to get a mortgage on parents house
6. Possibly having a first registration with the Propoprty people (I as executor (doing it myself, have one of those types of properties and my solicitor (as friend and in lieu of future business, plus estate worth diddly squat) advised me to just leave the messy title until next year, which I'm doing as then I won't have to deal with the pages and pages of questions they'd already sent a few years ago now, but I'm in the happy situation that my siblings don't care about how long it takes etc)

And all you need is 'to register the property' and 'sign a contract'.

I don't think so.

And even worse, and this is one of the best I've heard on here

7. Can't use the solicitor as a) not talking to them b) possible fighting with the family relation solicitor c) family relation solicitor not being a good idea and we can see why d) threats from family if they use another solicitor

My advice and its free but it will save you much in money and tears, find a good independent solicitor and extracate yourself from family and family relation solicitor.


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## Catman (23 Oct 2015)

Bronte said:


> It's always amazing how these threads go and how as we go into it the whole situation is totally different to the OP.  EG:
> 
> 1. Title was not checked in 2003 when a mortgage was cleared, whatever gives you that idea?
> 2. We have a probate situation
> ...



That's unfair. I was only trying to expand on the little information given.
1. The deeds show clear title without any liens on the property, since mortgage was cleared in 2003
2. There is no "situation". The probate was easy to do and the inheritance is clear. Both beneficiaries are in complete agreement and probate will issue in the normal way.
3. No, it isn't. I checked with the PRAI
4. Instead of giving cash, I gave partial interest in another property, so when the contracts for this house are signed there will be no handing over of any money. Not strictly relevant to situation, but illustrating that mortgage won't be required to close.
5. Yes, so? What does that matter? This is a separate issue. I may have to  get a solicitor for that part.
6. There is no first registration. Really, you are just superimposing your experience onto mine, when they are totally different.
7. I am not even going to go there; it's not relevant to my original question and NOYB


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## Catman (23 Oct 2015)

Anyway, I have my answer. No, it's not a legal requirement, except in the case of a mortgage, but it is advisable. Thanks.


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## Rebuttal (23 Oct 2015)

Best of luck, if you run into any problems post them here.


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## DIYamateur (24 Nov 2015)

Hi, i am at the moment researching into DIY conveyance for a registered property at 30000k. It seems very possible to undertake this without a solicitor. You do need to know what property conveyance entails and to carry out all the necessary searches. I can understand that if it was a less straight forward transaction it would be wise to hire a solicitor. Good luck! And if anyone has gone through this process without a solicitor it would be great to hear from you.


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## Leo (25 Nov 2015)

I try to cut out 'middlemen' myself as much as possible. However I strongly believe that a solicitor is a worthwhile investment for such a large transaction. In my own case, they saved me from having to find out about a Sheriff's warrant after the fact and I'm sure saved me quite a lot of grief and money in doing so. There have been many other threads on here over the years also that should serve as cautionary tales.


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2015)

Catman said:


> .
> 7. I am not even going to go there; it's not relevant to my original question and NOYB



So that's why you came on here, not to get relevant advice.  And two experts have told you what to do by the way.  They were more subtle than me and gave you excellent advice.  In all my time on here I don't think we had one single solitary lay person do a conveyance themselves.


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