# Ryanair chose not to fly-no longer volcanoes fault.



## SoylentGreen (22 Apr 2010)

The regulators gave the all clear for airlines to fly yesterday April 21st. Ryanair chose not to fly. This had nothing to do with the volcano this was for logistical reasons. In fact they have decided not to recommence flights to the U.K. until Friday again nothing to do with the volcano.
This means that it is Ryanair that is inconveniencing their customers not volcano ash or eruptions etc.
This is no longer an Act of God this is simply Ryanair's inability to get their planes to where they should be. 
Ryanair should be made responsible for all losses incurred by people because they are the ones who have chosen not to fly.

This also throws up an interesting question for those wishing to claim against their insurance. 
If it is not the volcanos fault but Ryanair's fault then I would imagine that a person could claim against their insurance because their airline chose not to fly.


----------



## Geraldine2 (22 Apr 2010)

I think people are being really unfair to Ryanair.  This volcanic ash disaster is nobody's fault.

I'd like to know the names of the regulators who have given the "all clear" for airlines to fly so that should anything happen to the planes flying they can bear the responsibility of their actions.


----------



## markpb (22 Apr 2010)

SoylentGreen said:


> This is no longer an Act of God this is simply Ryanair's inability to get their planes to where they should be.



Actually, that's neither fair nor correct. If they were unable to meet their schedule because planes are in the wrong place or have missed maintenance windows, it's entirely the volcanos fault. How do you propose they return planes to the correct airports while they're not allowed to fly?

However, if you'd read the news you'd realise they are flying all scheduled flights _except_ between Ireland to the UK. This means they have extra capacity for european and african flights so they can return passengers who have been stuck for almost a week. Do you think it's not fair that those passengers are looked after first?


----------



## Caveat (22 Apr 2010)

Maybe soylentgreen works for the Daily Mail. 

In fact I'm surprised the DM hasn't run a story blaming Ryanair for causing the volcano to erupt in the first place.


----------



## RonanC (22 Apr 2010)

Caveat said:


> Maybe soylentgreen works for the Daily Mail.
> 
> In fact I'm surprised the DM hasn't run a story blaming Ryanair for causing the volcano to erupt in the first place.


 
Ah thats because it is Jose Mourinho's fault


----------



## csirl (22 Apr 2010)

Question - How does an airline prove that the volcano is an "Act of God". Considering that its impossible to even prove (legally in court) that God exists, then how can they attribute actions to him? If a disgruntled passenger was to ask them for proof that it was an "Act of God", as opposed to the type of geological/tectonic event that regularly takes place in Iceland and other parts of the world, what proof would they give?


----------



## NorfBank (22 Apr 2010)

csirl said:


> Question - How does an airline prove that the volcano is an "Act of God". Considering that its impossible to even prove (legally in court) that God exists, then how can they attribute actions to him? If a disgruntled passenger was to ask them for proof that it was an "Act of God", as opposed to the type of geological/tectonic event that regularly takes place in Iceland and other parts of the world, what proof would they give?



It's just a term used for events that are beyond human control like a natural disaster. A geological event would fall under an "act of God".


----------



## SoylentGreen (22 Apr 2010)

markpb said:


> Actually, that's neither fair nor correct. If they were unable to meet their schedule because planes are in the wrong place or have missed maintenance windows, it's entirely the volcanos fault. How do you propose they return planes to the correct airports while they're not allowed to fly?


 
Indirectly you are actually agreeing with me.  When you book a flight you book from A to B. The airline are selling you a ticket to get you from A to B.  It is up to them to have the planes in place to bring you from A to B.

Just because Ryanair have planes flying from A to B then to C then to D and then back to A. is down to Ryanair's logistics and scheduling.

Other airlines just go from A to B and then back again.

Ryanair were allowed to fly on Wednesday, other airlines did because they had their planes where they were supposed to be. Ryanair chose not to fly. This is their problem not the volcanoes.

So do you claim against your insurance because your airline refused to fly for logistical reasons as distinct from an Act of God reason.


----------



## ney001 (22 Apr 2010)

Ryanair have backed down and are now agreeing to pay all reasonable expenses.


----------



## Mpsox (22 Apr 2010)

markpb said:


> Actually, that's neither fair nor correct. If they were unable to meet their schedule because planes are in the wrong place or have missed maintenance windows, it's entirely the volcanos fault. How do you propose they return planes to the correct airports while they're not allowed to fly?
> 
> However, if you'd read the news you'd realise they are flying all scheduled flights _except_ between Ireland to the UK. This means they have extra capacity for european and african flights so they can return passengers who have been stuck for almost a week. Do you think it's not fair that those passengers are looked after first?


 
That's exactly what Ryanair have said when they were asked why they were doing this, it's simply to get people home from the Continent. Not mad on them at the best of times, but credit where it is due for this


----------



## Towger (22 Apr 2010)

The fun will start if hundreds/thousands of people take them individually to the small claims court. I am sure Mick would prefer on big class action than death by a thousand cuts.


----------



## oldnick (22 Apr 2010)

soylentgreen - you do seem to have it in for Ryanair.

As a travel agent I have no love for that airline, or any airline that gives the public great value.

They have caused me and my colleagues to stop ripping people like you off.
Thirty years ago - I was charging 100 quid a head to London (over a weeks average wage). Don't ask about long haul;unbelievable rip-offs.

And people had no alternative but to go to travel agents and (the very few) airline offices in Dublin .
It was great for greedy lazy travel agents like me !

Even better, I could get cut-price fares for myself, and, whilst the chavs stayed at home or took the boat,  I and other priviliged persons got free wine, great service -and were not shoved and jostled by beer swilling members of the proleteriat that now crowd the airports and the aisles of the planes that hitherto were filled by charming upper-class maidens that served us hand and foot.

So, selfishly, I'd love to see the disappearance of the cheap fares.
Bring back rip-off fares, say I! 
Make everyone go back to travel agents !

-and you seem to agree with me...

..because  there is no way that airlines can profitably sell cheap fares whilst at the same time be forced to pay unlimited expences for circumstances beyond their control.

It really defies logic that someone on a fifty euro ticket can claim a thousand euros for hotel and board because a volcano prevented the plane from flying.

If you insist that airlines cover all those expences for no matter how long the airline can't fly then its bye-bye to many airlines , and to the cheaper fares that everyone has enjoyed for the last few years.

This law suits the nasty greedy side of me - but the human nice side of me says it really is a crazy unfair law and should be scrapped.

I wonder what others on this board think .

PS. I dont deal much with bus, rail or ferry-boat transport -but does anyone know that if  the bus or train you booked to ,say, Tralee or Sligo can't make it becaue of snow does that mean that irish rail/Bus feed and accommodate you for free as long   as the snow lasts?

Or if the ferry boat cant go because of storms does Stena or Irish ferries pay for accommodation and food until the storm abates ?
After all, I'm sure the law can't just pick on one from of transport -that would make it even stupider/unfairer than it already is.

Old Nick

P.S. Will Michael O'Leary give me a job now ?


----------



## olddoll (22 Apr 2010)

markpb said:


> Actually, that's neither fair nor correct. If they were unable to meet their schedule because planes are in the wrong place or have missed maintenance windows, it's entirely the volcanos fault. How do you propose they return planes to the correct airports while they're not allowed to fly?
> 
> However, if you'd read the news you'd realise they are flying all scheduled flights _except_ between Ireland to the UK. This means they have extra capacity for european and african flights so they can return passengers who have been stuck for almost a week. Do you think it's not fair that those passengers are looked after first?


 

This would apply to all airlines, so how come they are making the effort to facilitate their passengers, while Ryanair is not.  

I haven't heard any comments to indicate Ryanair is using their extra capacity to return passengers stuck abroad.

Does keeping their aircraft on the ground save a lot of money at this time of the year?


----------



## callybags (22 Apr 2010)

I have heard that roughly 75% of an airlines costs are fixed. If this is the case, then having planes on the ground most definitely does not save them any money.

I travel quite a lot and for most short haul trips ie to Europe I do not take out insurance. I am prepared to take the risk of something going wrong.

Thankfully I was not due to travel during the current situation, but if I had been I would not expect the airline to pick up the tab for anything over the cost of the flight as it was not their fault. I regard it as my personal responsibility.


----------



## TheShark (22 Apr 2010)

Excellent post there oldnick - totally agree with every bit of it.
How on earth can someone who paid €40 for a ticket expect a week's living expenses? This time Im behind O'Leary in refunding up to the value of the fare paid only.


----------



## Complainer (22 Apr 2010)

TheShark said:


> How on earth can someone who paid €40 for a ticket expect a week's living expenses?


Because that's what the law says.


----------



## Mpsox (22 Apr 2010)

TheShark said:


> Excellent post there oldnick - totally agree with every bit of it.
> How on earth can someone who paid €40 for a ticket expect a week's living expenses? This time Im behind O'Leary in refunding up to the value of the fare paid only.


 
The law seems to be quite clear on this and I see Ryanair are accepting that what O'Leary said was wrong. There is always a risk of planes being cancelled due to acts/events outside the airlines controls, not just volcanos. Like any business, when you have a risk, you can accept the risk or try and mitigate against it, either via the airline having insurance against the risk or including some risk loading into their fares. If Ryanair have done neither and fail to understand the basic regulations that they are expected to operate under, that should be their problem, not their customers


----------



## sue_flaherty (22 Apr 2010)

As far as I know they are using extra planes - that is why they aren't flying between Ireland and England - priority is to get people home from further away.  My parents were due back yesterday from Spain - then as flights cancelled were told it would be Monday - then later told they could get them home on this Friday


----------



## mathepac (22 Apr 2010)

Mpsox said:


> ...  If Ryanair have done neither and fail to understand the basic regulations that they are expected to operate under, that should be their problem, not their customers


On the radio today Mick accepted that he was wrong (a first?) and that Ryanair will reimburse their customers' additional costs. Mind you, he hasn't said when he will pay or whether these refunds will attract "administration and processing charges" such as the ones he levies when refunding travel taxes and airport charges. He went on to say he intends getting the law changed so that the next time Governments ground his planes, they will pay. Sound man Mick, you're one of our own.


----------



## Rois (22 Apr 2010)

Is there a difference between a "natural disaster" and an "act of God" please?


----------



## jhegarty (22 Apr 2010)

Rois said:


> Is there a difference between a "natural disaster" and an "act of God" please?



All natural disasters would be act's of God.


----------



## Mpsox (22 Apr 2010)

mathepac said:


> On the radio today Mick accepted that he was wrong (a first?) and that Ryanair will reimburse their customers' additional costs. Mind you, he hasn't said when he will pay or whether these refunds will attract "administration and processing charges" such as the ones he levies when refunding travel taxes and airport charges. He went on to say he intends getting the law changed so that the next time Governments ground his planes, they will pay. Sound man Mick, you're one of our own.


 
So in effect, he is saying that the next time some Govt or international body makes a decision on health and safety grounds, they will have to factor in the possibility that as a result of that decision, the Govt could be on the hook for millions?  I can really see the European governments rushing to implementing those amendments

Between this and the issue in the high court and O'Leary having to issue a letter of apology for that he strikes me as starting to believe his own publicity a little too much.


----------



## markpb (22 Apr 2010)

olddoll said:


> I haven't heard any comments to indicate Ryanair is using their extra capacity to return passengers stuck abroad.



MoL himself said it on the news last night. The Ryanair website also says it:



> Ryanair has scheduled a number of additional flights from Ireland to Continental Europe; and from the UK to Continental Europe to allow disrupted passengers to return home – these extra flights/seats are now available to disrupted passengers via Manage My Booking


----------

