# Covid - International travel over xmas



## AndroidMan (9 Dec 2021)

I have flights and hotels booked seperatley for a destinstion outside the EU.
I am going with Aer Lingus to Paris and Air France to India.
I booked the end to end flighy with one agency.
Hotels are with biiking.cim and they toik ni money yet.

If France or Ireland ban non essential travel before I go, will my flight be cancelled?
What if one leg is cancelled and the other is not and i am unable to reach my destination?
What about booking.com? Seems i coukd just cancel online.
Same with return trip.

The trip is a holiday, essential in my opinion but probably not in the eyes of the government.

I have premium travel insurance but the terms are quite ambiguous.

Am now losing sleep over this!


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## EmmDee (9 Dec 2021)

AndroidMan said:


> I have flights and hotels booked seperatley for a destinstion outside the EU.
> I am going with Aer Lingus to Paris and Air France to India.
> I booked the end to end flighy with one agency.
> Hotels are with biiking.cim and they toik ni money yet.
> ...



Currently there is no ban on travel - essential or not. Except to restricted countries (India isn't one). You'll need to comply with Indian entry requirements (whatever they are) and when you come back you'll need to test prior to arriving in Ireland. Check with the French site but if you're transiting through a single airport you'll probably not have to meet requirements

Ask your agent if the trip is booked under a single reference or two "point to point" trips. If the former, and if flights from Ireland were cancelled, you would get refunded for the total. If the latter, you won't


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## AndroidMan (9 Dec 2021)

Thanks @EmmDee 
If I was travelling today, I would not be concerned.
I am leaving a few days before Xmas and am worried how things will change.
Even if non essential travel is banned, the flight may still run right?
Where do I stand there?


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## Sunny (9 Dec 2021)

Well Aer Lingus will let you change your flights up to 24 hours before hand. I presume Air France have some sort of flexibility as well. But you will need to discuss with your Agency even though I doubt they know. There are too many variables to give you a definite answer. The speculation this morning is very unfair on people who have trips planned. I can't see them banning travel at this stage to be perfectly honest.


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## Leo (9 Dec 2021)

AndroidMan said:


> Even if non essential travel is banned, the flight may still run right?
> Where do I stand there?


If the flight departs, you lose. No refund, and no voucher. As above, you would need to reschedule the flight in advance.

During previous restriction periods, some people were successful in seeking a chargeback on their debit or credit card, but the banks have since admitted they were wrong to do so, and RyanAir will not let those people travel with them in future unless they repay that fare.

The hotel situation depends on the terms & conditions you signed up to. Did you choose rates with a free cancellation policy? Most hotels on that platform offer free cancellation up to a day or so prior to check-in, but they also offer cheaper non-refundable rates. You'll need to confirm which you chose.


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## AndroidMan (9 Dec 2021)

So if there is a non essential travel ban and the government says I am not allowed to fly, yet the plane departs for people with essential reasons to travel, would insurance not cover this?
The insurance T&C's are not clear, probably intentionally.


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## Leo (9 Dec 2021)

AndroidMan said:


> So if there is a non essential travel ban and the government says I am not allowed to fly, yet the plane departs for people with essential reasons to travel, would insurance not cover this?
> The insurance T&C's are not clear, probably intentionally.


Depends on what your insurance says, but many people's experience last time was that it was not covered. You need to read your policy, but most insurers have introduced clauses since the pandemic begun to exclude cover for such events. For example, InsureMyTrip advertise Covid cover benefits and speak to additional cover it offers, but at the end of the list of benefits they state they offer no cover for cancellation due to government restrictions.


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## AndroidMan (9 Dec 2021)

Thanks @Leo 
So what is the definition of essential travel? And who is the decision maker at the airport?
Will getting some warm weather cut it?


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## Leo (9 Dec 2021)

The Government define it. They removed that requirement earlier in the year and looks like the list they considered 'essential' was taken offline.


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## joe sod (9 Dec 2021)

Sunny said:


> . There are too many variables to give you a definite answer. The speculation this morning is very unfair on people who have trips planned. I can't see them banning travel at this stage to be perfectly honest.


What speculation is this? Is it the media jumping the gun again trying to generate drama and headlines out of covid. At least nphet have been gagged for the moment.
They already jumped the gun by requiring covid tests for people re entering the country even with vaccine certs. The government have an economy to worry about now and a massive internationally traded sector. I think this will be as far as they can go with travel restrictions


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## peemac (11 Dec 2021)

Thankfully cases are dropping here and hospital admission is also dropping.
It is highly unlikely for any further restrictions here as people have heeded advice and been getting their boosters and many vaccine skeptics have realised that it's far better to have a vaccine than not.

The only possibility is that they will require those over 50 to have had a booster and to even that would be in the new year


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## elefantfresh (11 Dec 2021)

What I truly don't understand is why they are not updating the cert with the booster information.
Many countries across Europe are now saying that fully vacced means booster included.
I'm boosted, but my cert doesn't reflect this - which means I'm un-vacced in the eyes of many.
I've emailed and tweeted at Leo, Micheal and Stephen Donnelly asking why we don't have this and what is the plan to do so.
Not a peep from them so far.
What reason would they have for NOT updating the app?
I'm not a tin foil hat person, but could there be a motive for this?


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## odyssey06 (11 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> What I truly don't understand is why they are not updating the cert with the booster information.
> Many countries across Europe are now saying that fully vacced means booster included.
> I'm boosted, but my cert doesn't reflect this - which means I'm un-vacced in the eyes of many.
> I've emailed and tweeted at Leo, Micheal and Stephen Donnelly asking why we don't have this and what is the plan to do so.
> ...


Bureaucratic sclerosis and IT lack of capability is a more plausible explanation.

Look at how clueless MM was going out to bat saying booster takeup was slow due to reluctance, when it was obvious there was a fundamental systems issue and the next day people were being turned away from walk in clinics due to demand. It's like a Yes Minister episode where they want to put Minister in their place.


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

I wonder is there any other way, any workaround we could use in the absence of the updated cert.
Has anybody tried anything at all - I'm at my wits end.


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## Sunny (13 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> I wonder is there any other way, any workaround we could use in the absence of the updated cert.
> Has anybody tried anything at all - I'm at my wits end.



What are you looking for? Where are you travelling to? I am not aware of many Countries in the EU that require Boosters to be regarded as Fully vaccinated (Austria is second jab must be less than 270 days). That is the way it is going but will be at least February before that comes for most Countries.


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## Paul O Mahoney (13 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> I'm going to France 8th Jan for 3 weeks snowboarding.
> For the first week I am considered fully vacced - which I am, including booster
> From the 15th Jan, France has stated that fully vacced must include the booster - which our cert does not reflect - as stated above.
> In order to use the ski lifts, you must be either fully vacced, recovered or PCR test in last 24hrs.
> ...


Did you get a card confirming your booster when administered?Or did they add it to your original card?

They hardly let you out the door without some proof you are fully vaccinated including booster. 


I haven't received my booster yet ,so that's why I'm asking.


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

Yes, just a new card saying I'm boosted - but there is no QR code on it - try flashing that to someone checking at the ski lifts!
"Monsieur, there is no QR code - you cannot enter"
"But you can clearly see my paper card with handwritten date and dose, let me in!"


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## Sunny (13 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> I'm going to France 8th Jan for 3 weeks snowboarding.
> For the first week I am considered fully vacced - which I am, including booster
> From the 15th Jan, France has stated that fully vacced must include the booster - which our cert does not reflect - as stated above.
> In order to use the ski lifts, you must be either fully vacced, recovered or PCR test in last 24hrs.
> ...



Not judging at all. Pretty annoying. I hadn't realised that France were planning that so early in January. Are they that far ahead in their booster campaign to make that possible?

I don't know why they haven't added the booster to the EU Digital covid certs even if not required. The EU issued coding specifications in the middle of November and by all accounts, it is not that big a code change.


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## Paul O Mahoney (13 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> Yes, just a new card saying I'm boosted - but there is no QR code on it - try flashing that to someone checking at the ski lifts!
> "Monsieur, there is no QR code - you cannot enter"
> "But you can clearly see my paper card with handwritten date and dose, let me in!"


But the dose will be noted, batch number etc and is printed. 
Perhaps call the French Embassy maybe they will provide a solution. It'll cost nothing to ask.


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

You know something, thats not the worst idea.
I've just sent them an email outlining all the above.
Thanks for that - lets see if they come back at all.


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

Ah, you have to hand it to the French.

So I emailed the embassy and they replied stating that they do not respond in any other language than French - haha, bless - I suppose thats not unreasonable and perhaps I should have made the effort initially.
Anyways, I took the exact same email and threw it into Google translate and resent it.
They replied once more, in French - here is the translation

"If you are unable to prove that you received the booster dose, it will be mandatory to perform tests in order to gain access to public areas"

So thats that - because of whatever reason our clowns are not updating the certificate, anyone fully vacced here including the booster is "unvacced" in France and I believe Austria is kicking in soon also.
Looks like its either stay at home or PCR every single day.

I would assume, nothing will happen here until the great unwashed begin the holiday period and start calling Joe Duffy - then the pressure will be on the government to actually sort this out.
Especially as more countries come online to only regard boosted as full.

I'd be expelled from AAM if I wrote my true thoughts on here - lol


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## Sunny (13 Dec 2021)

Maybe don't panic just yet. You have a month. I don't think there is major IT work involved and the pressure will grow on the Government once it is clear that the booster needs to be recorded. I think the Government assumed that because they didn't intend to make the booster part of their 'passport', then it wasn't required. They seemed to have forgotten that it is an EU Certificate and has an impact outside these borders.  Why they couldn't just set it from the start is beyond me...


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## rgfuller (13 Dec 2021)

Have you tried the live chat on the certificate portal, see if they have a plan to allow one to request or issue a refreshed cert based on the booster ?


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## Bluefin (13 Dec 2021)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> But the dose will be noted, batch number etc and is printed.
> Perhaps call the French Embassy maybe they will provide a solution. It'll cost nothing to ask.


Just looked at mine there... Hand written with batch, date given and name... Wouldn't get a coke cola in a pub for an 18th year old..


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

no idea how to quote
"Have you tried the live chat on the certificate portal, see if they have a plan to allow one to request or issue a refreshed cert based on the booster ?"

I actually did that and they told me they didn't know if/when it would happen and to just watch gov.ie


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

Bluefin said:


> Just looked at mine there... Hand written with batch, date given and name... Wouldn't get a coke cola in a pub for an 18th year old..


AHAHAHAH! Thats cheered me up no end - Thanks Bluefin


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

Anyways, all this could be a pointless conversation - the news and this new variant looks pretty bleak - we might well be going nowhere for a while.


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## AndroidMan (13 Dec 2021)

Ah JMcD .. how can you be so sure?


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## elefantfresh (13 Dec 2021)

That's the whole point. There is nothing sure about this mess.
It's utter madness on the snow forums with people trying to work out entry and reside criteria whilst the rules are changing, daily.


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## tomdublin (13 Dec 2021)

As far as I know not having had a booster doesn't count as unvaccinated anywhere in the EU yet.  EU governments are working on a common approach that would require boosters no later than around 8 or 9 months after the previous vaccination in order to retain vaccination status (which will then also be reflected on the vaccination cert) but that hasn't been finalized yet due to objections by booster-laggards such as Ireland.


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## elefantfresh (14 Dec 2021)

tomdublin said:


> As far as I know not having had a booster doesn't count as unvaccinated anywhere in the EU yet.  EU governments are working on a common approach that would require boosters no later than around 8 or 9 months after the previous vaccination in order to retain vaccination status (which will then also be reflected on the vaccination cert) but that hasn't been finalized yet due to objections by booster-laggards such as Ireland.


Here you go








						France to roll out Covid-19 booster shots for all adults amid sharp rise in cases
					

France will make Covid-19 booster jabs available to all adults and reduce the gap from the last jab to five months, Health Minister Olivier Véran announced on Thursday, ruling out curfews and lockdowns…




					www.france24.com


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## Leo (14 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> So thats that - because of whatever reason our clowns are not updating the certificate, anyone fully vacced here including the booster is "unvacced" in France and I believe Austria is kicking in soon also.
> Looks like its either stay at home or PCR every single day.


It really is outrageous! Why aren't they putting all their focus on facilitating people heading off on hols!


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## elefantfresh (14 Dec 2021)

Seriously Leo - thats really uncalled for and unnecessary - its not as if the IT dept are administrating the jabs.
All thats being asked is that our cert reflects our status.
Theres absolutely no reason to be so condescending. 
There are many people who wish to travel to stay with relatives over the Xmas period - whatever about me and my first world problems.


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## Leo (14 Dec 2021)

elefantfresh said:


> - its not as if the IT dept are administrating the jabs.


No, they're scrambling trying to resolve issues with the vaccine scheduling system. Facilitating foreign holidays based on newly introduced criteria rightly comes some way down the priority list from that.


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## rgfuller (14 Dec 2021)

https://twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/1470780149230678024?s=20

"Taoiseach has told the Dail that Covid certs will have to be updated to include boosters . But said it would be unfair at this stage of the booster campaign to differentiate between those who have a third dose and those who don't"

"He was responding to the Fine Gael TD Richard Bruton who  said that “from tomorrow, France will require people over a certain age to have three doses before they participate in certain activity.”"

Actually also on rte news website - https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/1214/1266581-ireland-covid/


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Dec 2021)

Leo said:


> It really is outrageous! Why aren't they putting all their focus on facilitating people heading off on hols!



You took the words right out of my mouth! 

I am amazed at people complaining that they get stuck in Spain or France or whatever as the rules changed while they were on holidays.

It seems simple enough to me.  Don't go on holidays until Covid is over. 

I had planned two trips - one in December to London and one in January to NY . I cancelled the December one - just lost the airfare. 

I presume I will cancel NY in January.  I have the hotel booked but didn't book the airline as I don't want the hassle of arguing over flight refunds.

Brendan


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## Bluefin (14 Dec 2021)

rgfuller said:


> https://twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/1470780149230678024?s=20
> 
> "Taoiseach has told the Dail that Covid certs will have to be updated to include boosters . But said it would be unfair at this stage of the booster campaign to differentiate between those who have a third dose and those who don't"
> 
> ...


We differentiate from person's with no vaccine, 1 jab and 2 jabs... What a stupid statement from an inept politician. 
One item that this government had complete control over (booster jabs rollout) in relation to this virus, they have failed to deliver


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## Paul O Mahoney (14 Dec 2021)

Bluefin said:


> We differentiate from person's with no vaccine, 1 jab and 2 jabs... What a stupid statement from an inept politician.
> One item that this government had complete control over (booster jabs rollout) in relation to this virus, they have failed to deliver


How have they failed to deliver? We have a huge majority of the Adult population vaccinated with 2 doses, upto last week we had over 1m boosters administered and expect that to rise rapidly.

The Government isn't responsible for Omicron and the extra pressure this is placing on systems that are always creaking. 

Having QR codes with all 3 vaccines recorded isn't really a huge priority in the scheme of things when it's going to take days for IT in the HSE to respond to the lowering booster requirements from 5 to 3 months.

Everyone is firefighting at the moment and while they are mixed messaging or speaking out foolishly at times ,I really can't fault what's been done.


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## joer (14 Dec 2021)

We would all like to go on hols and want to go on hols but there are priorities in life and for me staying safe and healthy are two of mine.


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## elefantfresh (15 Dec 2021)

Jeepers. Tough crowd.


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## Leper (15 Dec 2021)

joer said:


> We would all like to go on hols and want to go on hols but there are priorities in life and for me staying safe and healthy are two of mine.


Then travel to where it's safer to be. My experience over the past six months has shown it's safer in a Ryanair queue than in most Irish pubs. And in Spanish restaurants you must show your Covid passport before being seated and not like here being told to "sit where you like" and don't mind the Covid passport.

The police in Spain will immediately shut down restaurants/pubs where they are not Covid compliant (and I've seen this) and not like here where the restauranteurs/publicans can do as they wish.


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## joer (15 Dec 2021)

I understand your logic but I would be too nervous of been on holidays and then a major surge of Covid either abroad or at home . It's not for me at the moment but that is only a personal choice .


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## Purple (15 Dec 2021)

Leper said:


> not like here being told to "sit where you like" and don't mind the Covid passport.


That's not my experience. I've always been asked for my Cert since the rules came in.


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## Leper (15 Dec 2021)

Purple said:


> That's not my experience. I've always been asked for my Cert since the rules came in.


Come to Cork, Purple, Come to Cork . . . . . .  easing gently into a rest zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

. . . . and I wish more people would ask for the Covid Cert, but they got to learn to use their car indicators first though (another lacking in Cork).


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## Purple (15 Dec 2021)

Leper said:


> Come to Cork, Purple, Come to Cork . . . . . .  easing gently into a rest zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> . . . . and I wish more people would ask for the Covid Cert, but they got to learn to use their car indicators first though (another lacking in Cork).


I thought modesty and humility were the only things lacking in Cork.


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## elefantfresh (15 Dec 2021)

More restrictions and regulations coming in to play it would seem.
Might be the easiest thing to just jack in the thoughts of getting a break with the amount of tests and rules and uncertainty abound - as mentioned by a few people in here.

And maybe by the time they actually update the cert to its correct status, things will have cooled down a little in Europe.
Fingers X


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## Paul O Mahoney (15 Dec 2021)

Purple said:


> I thought modesty and humility were the only things lacking in Cork.


We have all those, and can refill you if you're levels are "waning "

Cork is like the vaccine a top up is required every so often.

And remember Cork is an anagram of "Rock"


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## Cavanbhoy (15 Dec 2021)

Leper said:


> Come to Cork, Purple, Come to Cork . . . . . .  easing gently into a rest zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> . . . . and I wish more people would ask for the Covid Cert, but they got to learn to use their car indicators first though (another lacking in Cork).


My experience of Covid cert is that in food premises nearly always asked but for first time in ages was out Saturday in so called wet pubs wasnt asked once and their was no restrictions enforced.


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## elefantfresh (20 Dec 2021)

Well, at least they are now acknowledging the fact...

Travel within the European Union next year will “very likely” require proof of having received a Covid booster vaccine, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

Outlining the benefits of the third dose at a briefing on renewed Covid restrictions on Friday, Mr Varadkar said travel rules look set to change in line with public health measures.

“At a European level, the digital Covid certificates are going to be reissued in the new year,” he said. “And it’s very likely that in order to travel in the spring and summer you’ll need to have the new digital Covid cert which is the evidence that you’ve been boosted.”









						EU travel ‘very likely’ to require proof of booster vaccine next year
					

Ireland facing into ‘long war’ with Covid that could go on for several years, Tánaiste says




					www.irishtimes.com


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## Thirsty (20 Dec 2021)

Leper said:


> sit where you like" and don't mind the Covid passport.


This has not been my experience - had cert checked everywhere even to get coffee.


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## Leper (20 Dec 2021)

Leper said:


> Then travel to where it's safer to be. My experience over the past six months has shown it's safer in a Ryanair queue than in most Irish pubs. And in Spanish restaurants you must show your Covid passport before being seated and not like here being told to "sit where you like" and don't mind the Covid passport.
> 
> The police in Spain will immediately shut down restaurants/pubs where they are not Covid compliant (and I've seen this) and not like here where the restauranteurs/publicans can do as they wish.


I'm glad to report that since I wrote the foregoing we visited two restaurants in Cork (Blackrock Castle and Rochestown Park Hotel - neither of them a city centre location). In both we were asked to provide our Covid passport. Staff were friendly and efficient in both places and the food was excellent. Parking was free. All the restrictions were enforced in a friendly manner. I'm just using this post to give credit where credit is due.


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## elefantfresh (6 Jan 2022)

Finally....


New Digital Covid Certificates are to be issued to people from this week to reflect booster vaccines, the Minister for Health has said.

The updated certs will be automatically issued to people who have received an additional or booster vaccination in recent months.









						No new restrictions recommended by NPHET
					

People who have received an additional dose of a Covid-19 vaccine will be issued an updated Digital Covid Certificate starting from tonight.




					www.rte.ie


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## horse7 (20 Jan 2022)

Still no sign of any booster cert, and you can't get help on the helpline . The portal is sending me the first 2 jabs,and the use are texting with appointment for the booster at least twice a week.


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