# FE1 Exams



## carmody (13 Sep 2005)

Hey,

Is anyone studying to sit the FE1's this October. I am studying for these at the moment and working full time and I am having no life.

How are others getting on and any last minute tips from people doing them or people who did them...?

Just finished Griffith College course but had to get grinds because didn't know how to go about answering the questions..Hope to be ok now.

Cheers.


----------



## Card (14 Sep 2005)

The exams are fine, just study past exams papers and make sure you attempt five questions in each exam. Worry more about getting an apprenticeship that's the harder part!


----------



## Lou (14 Sep 2005)

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and am relieved to find a place where I can get some advice! I'm sitting four of the FE-1 in October, Equity, Criminal, Constitutional and Land. I was away for the summer and only decided to send in my application at the last minute and for that reason my study has only really started now. I have an LLB and so am fairly familiar with the material. I was under the impression from friends who have sat the exams that they were not the hardest exams and it was more the volume of work to be covered that was the problem. However, from reading posts in this forum I'm getting a different impression and am very worried. I have notes, books, papers etc. and plan to study intensively (on my own) for the next few weeks so do you think that is sufficient to pass at least three? Any advice, tips etc would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Lou


----------



## Card (14 Sep 2005)

Unlike college exams etc where you want good results, with these you have to do is pass them, good attempts at five questions will achieve this, two of the subjects I will admit I had no real knowledge of, I just knew how toanswer past questions that had come up, i got 51 in one and 58 in the other, just make sure you attempt five

Have you secured an apprenticeship, that may take more effort than these exams!


----------



## carmody (14 Sep 2005)

Heya,

Thanks for the replies and good lookto Lou with your exams I really hope you do well.
Im doing Company, Equity, Criminla and Constitutional. I have a degree in Commerce and had only ever done Electives in Law, so dont have much of a background but I loved the subject in college. I went to Griffith and got grinds,found notes and manuals in griffith great but you spend ur time just taking down noes so for me its like studying the material for the first time. The grinds are helping with answering the questions.

Im getting nervous but then like you say it seems to just be a lot of information but once you get through that and are able to answer sample questions, should that be enough?? Sometimes I feel grand about them, but hearing from other people how they failed and how hard they are, i get freaked out.

I haven't even looked for an apprenticeship yet, working in Solictors office, as kind of office Junior (reception &secretarial work)so hoping that experience will help when I look for one.
Any other advice on doing the exams?

Cheers


----------



## Card (14 Sep 2005)

Get your hands on as many past exam papers and examiners reports as you can, try to use the very latest editions of all text books, be aware of any new developments, even when answering if they only amount to one line in your answer, it shows awareness. As i said earlier ALWAYS attempt five questions.

If you intend sitting four now and four in april, and you pass these four in oct, start looking for a position as soon as you get the results in dec, because as soon as you get all eight you need to be able to submit all documentation to the law society ASAP in order to get a place on the next course.

have you done the irish exam, if not you should apply to do the one at christmas


----------



## Lou (14 Sep 2005)

Thanks for all the replies - I feel a lot better about the exams now!  Good luck to you too Carmody, seems we're doing three of the same subjects!  As you said it's easy to get freaked out by other people but we can only do our best and I hope we'll both be happy this time next month!  I also spent six months working as a secretary/receptionist in a legal office before I went travellling for the summer and hopefully I will be able to do my apprenticship there.  I realise they are very hard to come by but the experience you are getting will definately stand to you.  

Thanks also Card, I see what you mean about only needing a pass mark, it's just still in college mindset about doing well and getting good marks.  As Carmody said is it a good indication you're ready if you can answer past questions fairly well?  I'm going to ask probably a silly question but how long on average were your answers?  Five questions is a lot in three hours so I suppose they should just be concise and to the point? Also is it better to concentrate on three subjects to try guarantee a pass mark in them and hope for the best with the fourth or is that a stupid idea?    

Thanks again for all the help and info!


----------



## Card (14 Sep 2005)

lou concentrate on passing the four, the exams are expensive and time consuming and passing four is very achievable. I would consider my handwriting size wise to be above average and my answers were between 3-4 pages, on some questions I wrote longer, however, I strictly gave myself 30 mins per questions and moved onto the next one regardless as soon as the 30 mins is up. Sorry if what I’m repeating here is pretty basic exam technique. 
Also take no notice of those around you, a lot of the people in the exam hall will know each other from college etc. and the bs that will go on around you will be unbelievable!

Also even if you don’t intend commencing your apprenticeship for some time, I would suggest contacting the office you previously worked for, there is a limit on the number of apprentices a solicitor can take, so get in there before he/she offers apprenticeships to anyone else.


----------



## carmody (14 Sep 2005)

Hey,

Thanksfor all that information...really helps.

I haven't actually used any texts..I have the Grififith mauals, all examiner reports and all past papers. I have taken a few new cases from the Gazette magazine, we have it in work, just to show some knowledge of new cases, would that suffice do you think? I just didnt want to be using too much stuff, cause I totally panic then.

Yeah I would also advise to concentrate on the four, what if one of the 3 you concentrated doesn't go as well as planned then you may not end up even passing 3.

When u say 3-4 pages, I heard that the exam scripts are similar to the Leaving Cert. scripts, where the lines are really big, so would you do 3-4 back and front...sorry sounds so basic, but just to know. My grinds teachers say about 3 pages of normal paper.

Also, for last few weeks, I had been summarising my notes, getting them together etc.. and since last week ive been doing on avg. 4/5 hrs. per day(have to fit it around work)...Im off on Friday until the exams are over and will be doin 12hrs a day...Would that be enough to pass do you think. I hadn't really been studying while lectures were on during the summer...Leaving it all last minute (as usual!)

Thanks


----------



## Card (14 Sep 2005)

Don't take this the wrong way but quoting how many hours you doing is no indication of how well you're studying, one good hour studying a topic, is a lot better than 4-5 hours just messing around, they are stressful exams, I was studying for them myself this time last year just relax, if the griffith notes are this years then they should be up to date, don;t worry about the gazette, just relax, all the studying in the world is of no use if you're so wound up and tense that you can't relax enough to produce a clear readable answer to your questions. 
Any by 3-4 pages I meant 3-4 pages i.e.the back and front of two sheets

best of luck!


----------



## carmody (14 Sep 2005)

Thanks,

No i didnt mean to be saying the exact hours. Im just saying do you think that amount of study would get me a pass. If i study 4hours, its four solid hours of study. I dont have the time to not be taking stuff in at this stage. 

Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## Lou (15 Sep 2005)

Thanks Card for the advice and its worth hearing all the exam technique tips again, also it's nice to hear someone say the exams are passable, even at this late stage rather than the usual gloom. Also thanks for the bs warning, I can well imagine the type! You're right I should study all four and as Carmody said, one could easily go badly on the day. Sometimes you just need someone to point out the obvious before you can see it yourself so thank you both! 

The office I worked in is small and would only be taking on one apprentice. I got on very well with my boss, who asked me to think about an apprenticeship so I will have a chat with her again soon.

Card, can I just ask if you left many topics from the syllabus out? I'm just wondering how much, if anything I can afford not to study?

Thanks again


----------



## carmody (23 Sep 2005)

Hey Lou,

How are you? Just wondering how the study is going now....Im off work now but because I have more time Im beginning to lose my motivation and I have so much to do.

Are you getting through the syllabus ok now?

Hope its going ok.

Carmody


----------



## Lou (26 Sep 2005)

Hi Carmody,

It's the same for me, I went to the college library all last week but I don't know that I have that much to show for it.  I think Constitution will be ok so I'm leaving that for the moment.  I don't want to even think about Criminal.  Land and Equity are the only subjects I feel a little confident about but having said that I'm going to have to leave some parts out. I have so much to do too it's hard to know what to do first so I know how you feel! I can't believe they're starting next week! 

I'm off to the library again to do some equity so good luck with the study Carmody and hopefully we'll both find some motivation!

Lou


----------



## Darth Vader (26 Sep 2005)

"Also is it better to concentrate on three subjects to try guarantee a pass mark in them and hope for the best with the fourth or is that a stupid idea? "

As far as I am aware you have to pass four on your first sitting of the exams. if you only pass three, you will have to do them all over again. 

How did you find Grinds teachers? Were they any good?


----------



## Sherman (26 Sep 2005)

No, you only need to pass three the first time you sit them - pass only two, and you have to repeat those two again, but pass three and they're in the bag.


----------



## carmody (26 Sep 2005)

heya,

Yeah only had a few grinds and will be getting more this week and throughout exams....I found them really helpful. I think for the next set of 4 exams I will take, I am going to only do grinds. I have all the Griffith College notes from a friend and will get the past exam papers and examiners reports.

I just feel, for me, that one-to-one tuition is much better and also they work directly with the past papers so as you are studying topics you find that you are able to answer the questions very well...Also, they give you extra tips on answering questions that I didn't get from Griffith College.

So fingers crossed they go well now...so nervous!!


----------



## Darth Vader (27 Sep 2005)

How did you go about finding a grinds teacher? I could do with help on the answering technique.


----------



## carmody (27 Sep 2005)

Hey,

If you log on to www.lawsociety.ie and type in Final Exam part one, a list of all areas for the exams will pop up including list of courses for the FE1s. On this you will find a list of College Courses and people (usually barristers) that give grinds.

Are you sitting exams in October? I can give you the numbers of the grinds teachers I use. They are both barristers and I think they are very good. Its about 50-60 euros per hour, quite expensive but worth it.

For any question you are answering the last line of each question is the most important.  For problem questions divide each question up into different areas of law which need to be dealt with...Im sure you know that already.

I suppose for me, how to actually answer the questions properly is my biggest downfall.  The grinds has taught me to look at the question objectively and from both sides of the case. Before I would look at the question and see what areas needed to be discussed and I would do that and I would always pick one side to go with..but now I realise its about advising a "client" and therefore showing the positives and negatives to the law surrounding their problem is important and hedging an answer.  This shows you know every part of the are being discussed as you can offer all options open to the client and all things that will hinder the Client.

Sorry for waffling, Im probably not making sense. If you need any other advice, just ask.

Cheers


----------



## Darth Vader (27 Sep 2005)

No, im not doing them in October. I'm doing the November - March Griffith college course and then attempting them in March / April. I did make an attempt a few years ago but i didnt get them and i gave up for a while. i cant make up my mind how many to do though. If i started studying soon i would have almost 6 months to study (mostly in the evenings as i work) . Would that be enough time to study all 8? I doubt it, i'll probably do 5 or maybe 6 if i'm feeling adventurous.

Anyway, i hadnt considered doing grinds before. i presumed a course like the griffith college one would be enough but knowing how to answer a question, as opposed to trying to write down everything you know about a particular area of law, would be anadvantage. Who did you use?


----------



## carmody (3 Oct 2005)

Hey sorry for late reply.

The grinds teacheres I used were Liam Bell and Elizabeth Dunne, both barristers.  I find them really good and helpful.

About doing the 8 exams, it depends on each person I suppose. I am a Commerce graduate and had only done Law as one of my subjects throughout college so therefore I only wanted to attempt doing 4. It is possible and if you put your mind to it you could do it.  It is very tough working full time though, especially being in college as well. Doing 8 exams may mean you will pretty much not have any life other than work and study but if you're prepared for that, definately gofor the 8.

When you did them before, how did you find them and how much study time had you given to them?

Good luck anyway,

Carmody.


----------



## Darth Vader (3 Oct 2005)

I found them pretty tough going. I did put in the effort but it wasnt enough and i think it really does take a fair bit of determination and single-mindedness. I lost heart after i failed the first time round but obviously if you dont even attempt them you really dont have any hope of passing, so i'm going to give it another shot.

I hadnt considered doing grinds but i think its something i'll look into this time around. 

Im not looking forward to the six month hell of work, study, bed and nothing else, but i suppose it's only six months out of my life & i'll regret it if i dont.


----------



## carmody (3 Oct 2005)

Yeah if you think about how fast the last 6 months has gone it isn't that much. Try and just keep one night and one day off for yourself, like Saturday night and all day Sunday. 

I have put effort in as well but am not sure how I will do at all.  At the start of the course I wasn't doing any study, and then I started studying most evenings. I've been off for the last 2 weeks but didn't feel under pressure because I felt i had all day long to study but then wasn't getting enough done. I work best under pressure and can only cram to get details into my head, otherwise I can't remember them.

First exam is on Wednesday and I am really panicking now.

Best of luck and don't worry you will be fine.

Carmody


----------



## Darth Vader (4 Oct 2005)

Best of Luck. Let me know how you get on.


----------



## Lou (4 Oct 2005)

Best of luck tomorrow Carmody...remember deep breaths and you'll be grand!


----------



## carmody (4 Oct 2005)

Thanks Darth Vader.....

Best of luck to you too Lou on Friday for Land law.

We'll be grand.....I hope I will be anyway.

Take Care xx


----------



## carmody (8 Oct 2005)

Heya,


How did you get on with Land Law on Friday Lou?  Hope it went really well for you.  I had Company Law on Wednesday. I was so nervous before hand and blanked most of my cases...ahhhh!!!! Had 3 good questions and 2 crap ones so I don't think I will pass. I'm so disappointed now but just trying to concentrate on the next 3 because I CANNOT fail anymore.

Was just wondering if you know of any tips for Constitutional Law on Monday?

My lecturer had said maybe Constraints on Judges, The Preamble with particular reference to Prudence, Justice, Charity.  Maybe a question on Natural Law and the move away from it or a question on Article 45.

I don't know, I hate listening to tips incase they don't come up but now I'm panicking and just wondering if you have any idea.

Best of luck with it anyway!!!

Carmody


----------



## Lou (8 Oct 2005)

Hi Carmody,

Don't worry about Company now, its over and to be honest I really don't know that you can ever tell how they went until results...we may be surprised!  I was much the same for Land...did three ok questions but my other two answers were weak.  Even though it wasn't a great exam for me I am glad to have started.

As regards Constitutional, I am very unprepared.  I find the past questions confusing which is not a good sign!  I don't have tips but the ones you mentioned would be nice questions I think. As you said thought it can really throw you if the questions you expected don't turn up on the paper. There are so many cases and so much cross referencing and overlap...Oh my God now I'm making myself panic!!

Hopefully it will be a nice paper and best of luck to you too...we'll be grand!!

Lou


----------



## carmody (8 Oct 2005)

Heya Lou,

Sounds like Land Law went well enough for you, Im sure wou will do fine.

I FINALLY found my list of predictions for Constitutional exam from my lecturer.

It's quite long but good so here you go.....


Justice, Prudence, Charity....(Oct.98 Q.1)......Good chance.

Constitutional Interprestation, inter alia, precent, historical interpretatiion, dcotrine of non-justiciablity....(APR 02 Q.1, Oct 99 Q1).....Good chance.

Perogatives....Either Royal Perogatives or Are Perogatives redundant....(Q8,OCT 01)....Extremely high chance of this coming up.

Separation of Powers.
Under the Doctrine of non-justiciability:
1. Distinction between words are invalid, inconsisten and repugnant....(Q8 APR 01)

2.Constitutional jurisdiction of lower courts.....High chance these will be coming up.


Constitutional Rights of non-citizens re: Lobe Cae...good chance.

Private Proerty and right to earn a livelihood...good chance.

Non-Justiciability...good chance but did come up last year.

Equality...good chance, but did come up last year.

Doctrine of Proportionality...good chance....Q3 April 98....Link this with consideration of common good, private property and equality cases.

Right to silence(OCT 02 Q7)...Presumption of Innocence, right to a lawyer, Fairness, unconstitutioanlly obtained evidence.Right or lack of rights of cross examination, Criminal offences.

The family re: T.D. case and Northern Wesren Health Board case.

Religion appearing alot more and more interest in it...re: Quinn Supermarkets Case (Q8 Apr 02, Q3 OCT 01).Often neglected by examiner but has been area of curiosity in recent papers.

Directives of Social Policy.
Ok hope that doesn't scare hell out of you...but it's a good guideline and at least a few of them may come up.....It is only a guideline so don't get annoyed if they don't come up.

Best of luck Lou...They're nearly over....

Take care,

Carmody!


----------



## Lou (9 Oct 2005)

Hey Carmody 
You're so good!  Thank you for writing out all those guidelines...really now it was great of you and they are very helpful....should focus me a bit more I think and don't worry I know there are no guarantees!  As you said though there is a fair chance at least some of them will come up.

Exactly they're nearly over now and then we can have a well deserved break from the books for a little while at least!

Best of look tomorrow!!!

Lou


----------



## carmody (11 Oct 2005)

Heya Lou,


How did you get on yesterday?  Hope it went well.

I did good I think, I felt happy after I just hope that I put all the right topics down.  Its hard to know because you're interpreting the questions.

Good luck if your doing Equity tomorrow....Thank God, they are nearly over!!!

Carmocy.


----------



## Lou (11 Oct 2005)

Hi Carmody,

I'm really glad yesterday went well for you...a good confidence boost!  I literally waffled on for the three hours but I knew I was very unprepared anyway.  I'm doing equity tomorrow and hopefully that will go better.  Yes thankfully they're nearly over.

Best of luck tomorrow!!!

Lou


----------



## Chamar (11 Oct 2005)

I was just wondering - for those in the know - exactly how difficult is it to secure an apprenticeship once you get your law exams?

I understand the money is terrible but is their an availability problem as well?


----------



## Darth Vader (11 Oct 2005)

Depends on what your experience is. I would imagine it could be tough to find an apprenticeship if you have no legal experience. However, I had about three or four years working in solicitors offices before i did the FE1 exams. It would be interesting to see how it was for someone with no experience.


----------



## carmody (11 Oct 2005)

As far as I am aware it is quite tough to secure an apprenticeship, just because there are so many people at the one time trying to get places.  It doesn't really depend on your results as far as I have heard...What I mean is everyone who passes gets in or around the same marks.

I am working in a solicitors ofice for nearly a year, so hoping if I can't get one with them that the experience will stand to me.

I heard that one girl got an apprenticeship with a top firm because they found it great that she played golf....and another girl got one because of her experience.  So God only knows what they're looking for... think something that differentiates you from others.

Carmody.


----------



## carmody (14 Oct 2005)

Hey Lou,

How did Equity go for you.  I thought it was a nice paper, loads of past questions came up.  Hope it went well for you.

Do you have Criminal or are you finished?  I have Criminal on Monday and then I'm finished!!!! Cannot wait.

Good luck with the next one.

Carmody


----------



## Lou (15 Oct 2005)

Hey Carmody,

Equity went well for me too - definatly the best so far and it was great that all those past questions came up...at least we knew the correct issues! 

I have criminal monday but then thats it for me too....can't wait either but almost there now!!!

Best of luck monday!

Lou


----------



## carmody (24 Oct 2005)

Hey,

Hope the Criminal exam went well Lou. How do you think it went? I thought it was ok, bit tough but sure they are all over now so its all good.

Just wondering if anyone knows when the results for the exams will be out?  I heard they will be out in December, is that right?

Carmody


----------



## Card (25 Oct 2005)

It'll be a Monday anyway ( they are always posted on a Friday!) and will prob be around second week in dec i reckon


----------



## carmody (1 Nov 2005)

Thanks for that Card.  It already feels like I never did them.


Carmody


----------



## Lou (8 Nov 2005)

Hey Carmody,

Sorry for late reply but I'm glad criminal went well for you.  I thought it was ok, a bit tough alright but a lot better than I exected. They really do seem like so long ago but what a relief to be finished...of course not looking forward to December!

Em


----------



## carmody (20 Nov 2005)

Hey,

I rang the Law Society to ask about the date the results are out for October FE1s and I was told it will be mid-January.

Does anyone know if they just say that and then bring them out earlier?  I had thought it would be December.

Cheers,
Carmody


----------



## Sherman (21 Nov 2005)

The rumour mill will drive you mad - every week between now and Xmas you'll be told "definitely" they've posted the results...

And the Law Soc. are masters of diversion if you ring them up looking for a straight answer.

As far as I remember its mid-late December usually.


----------



## carmody (21 Nov 2005)

Hey Sherman,

Thanks for the reply.  I'll just try and put it out of my head now.  If it was December though it would be great so I would know whether to study for the next set or not in the New Year. 

Have you done these exams before? If so, would you know if you answer the topic at hand and dicuss with reference to the relevant areas of law but your either mix cases up or forget their names, will you lose a huge amount of marks.

In most of my exams I had the correct cases or Acts but in one exam I blanked but I really did feel I had recognised the correct topics and applied the areas of law to answering the question asked.

Thanks a million,
Carmody


----------



## Darth Vader (12 Dec 2005)

I hear the results are out. How did ye get on?


----------



## carmody (12 Dec 2005)

I only passed 2 out of the 4. Passed constitutional exam and Equity. Got 43 then in Criminal and didnt get Company either.. Im so disappointed but I will do them again in April. 
I know where I went wrong in the two I failed and I had never done Law as a course or degree until June of this year, so Im proud of passing two on my first go, even if I have to do them again. Now I know what the exams are like and how to answer question I hope to be ok.  I totally blanked in Company and in Criminal I mixed up all my acts and cases.So disappointing though.

Carmody.


----------



## Darth Vader (19 Dec 2005)

I know how hard they are and there are SO many case names & dates to learn. Its as much a memory exam as anything else.
Anyway, best of luck in April. When do you plan to start at the study?


----------



## carmody (19 Dec 2005)

Heya,

Thanks a million.  I've got over my disappointment now and just really going to get down to it.  Going to strat studying in January 3 nites a week and 1 day at weekend and do my Grinds again from February.  Hopefully April's exams will go better.  Have a Merry Christmas.

Carmody


----------



## Lou (22 Dec 2005)

Hi,

Carmody, passing two was good considering you didn't do law in college so honestly don't feel bad and there is lots of time before April. I passed three, failed criminal...the one I thought was ok but suppose just goes to show you never know.

I wonder if anyone has sat the irish exam? I applied for jan but am just discovering that nuascealaiocht is out of print and seemingly impossible to get.  Does anyone have any advise on where to get it or copies of the stories or if one of the other options on the syllabus is better to do and easier to obtain? Of course I've left it to the last minute so any help would be great!!!

Happy Christmas  

Lou


----------



## carmody (22 Dec 2005)

Hey Lou,

CONGRATULATIONS on getting your three, thats really great1 Im over my disappoiontment now, just going to get the head down in January.  I dont know anything about the Irish Exam sorry.

Well done again and have a lovely Christmas!!


----------



## Lou (22 Dec 2005)

Thanks Carmody,

Hope you have a lovely Christmas too....relax, enjoy the break and eat lots!!!

Lou


----------



## CCOVICH (22 Aug 2006)

There is now an FE1 discussion group on Google.


----------

