# Altercation with Dart officials



## Brighid (24 Oct 2009)

I would welcome any comments re what I regard as a horrific experience that I encountered this morning on the Dart. I went to the Bayside Dart station to get a dart  to Dunlaoighre to go to a friends funeral. When I went to get my ticket there was no one in the ticket office. I proceeded to the machines and tried unsuccessfully with the assistance of two others to get a ticket to no avail. I got on the Dart and very soon I was approached by a ticket inspector, I explained to him why I had no ticket and offered to pay for one but he refused and told me that there was a fine of 50 euro. He demanded my name and ID which I refused ( although was tempted to give a false one!) Hew was now joined by two other burly officials who proceeded to inform me that the ticket office was manned and therefore I was lying. Another woman in the same carriage overheard our conversation and said that there was no man in the ticket office. One of these burly guys told her to mind her own business and stop shouting, (she was not  shouting) In the meantime we had arrived at Clontarf Road station, my friend got on (he too was going to the funeral). He saw what was happening and  made a comment ‘this is like the Gestapo, I know this woman she doesn’t tell lies’ He was immediately told to stay out of this or get out. I was told that the gardai would be called at Pearse Station and the Dart service would be held up until I cooperated. I got off in Connolly, I dident see them anymore. I found all of this very  embarrassing and highhanded, I have never travelled without a ticket before and I really thought that it would be a matter of explaining to them and they would understand. I certainly did not think that I would have to pay 50 euro for their inadequacies and be treated as a common criminal in the midst of a carriage full of commuters. Obviously I did not get to my friends funeral which was unfortunate and I guess it will be sometime before I travel by dart again.  I would like to complain to Irish Rail but then they would have my name and address and I would still have to pay the 50 euro fine.  Sorry this is so longwinded but I am still traumatised.


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## sidzer (24 Oct 2009)

Sorry to hear that you were treated in such an over the top and shameful manner. Write a letter of complaint


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## Brighid (24 Oct 2009)

sidzer said:


> Sorry to hear that you were treated in such an over the top and shameful manner. Write a letter of complaint


 
Thanks sidzer, Yeh, would do that but they would then have my name and address and probably sue me for 50 euro.


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## Tinker Bell (25 Oct 2009)

By what you say, I doubt that they would chase you. Make sure you've got the times/places right and take a photo copy of the complaint. Just to rub it in, send it by registered post - so if it gets "lost" it is in their watch. You need to go through with this for your own wellbeing. Good luck.


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## darag (25 Oct 2009)

The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel.  It's as simple as that no matter what.  It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider.  If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.


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## micmclo (25 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel.  It's as simple as that no matter what.  It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider.  If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.



What about Broombridge?
I've gotten trains there, ok it's not the DART but you can just pay at your destination no problem


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## homebird (25 Oct 2009)

That's telling 'em Darag...

Sorry Brighid that you met 2 hot heads.


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## Brighid (25 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel. It's as simple as that no matter what. It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider. If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.


 
You were obviously one of the guys I encountered yesterday and yes u have missed the point!


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## starlite68 (25 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel. It's as simple as that no matter what. It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider. If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.


 
someone with your attitude would rise through the ranks fast in nazi germany!


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## darag (25 Oct 2009)

We Irish are great at complaining both about rules not being enforced in general and also complaining when they are applied to us individually.  The Irish Rail rules and by-laws are pretty clear and the fact that in the past they turned a blind eye or were lenient is no reason to feel entitled to such leniency.

Try making excuses with ticket inspectors on any of the public transport systems in continental European countries.  It does not work and if you don't pay the on-the-spot fine you will get arrested by police.  In some countries you are taken off the train/tram/metro just to pay the fine. 

Yep the machines are difficult to operate and sometimes unreliable and it's fair to complain about that.  Traveling without a ticket when the rules are very clear and then refusing to pay the fine is not reasonable.

And yes I know Boombridge is an exception.

This may be harsh but it's the only way to be fair.  Otherwise you end up in the situation where respectable "middle-class looking" middle-aged people have their excuses accepted but groups of poorer looking kids don't.  And without fairness, rules have no legitimacy.  The fact that you were going to a funeral, have always paid in the past, etc. has no relevance to this situation.


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## Yorrick (25 Oct 2009)

You attempted to purchase a ticket at the commencement of your journey. The machine was broken and there was no one in the ticket office. The first opportunity you got to purchase a ticket was when you were approached on the train by the Ticket Inspector. You explained the scenario to him and offered to pay the ticket. ( I am presuming of course that you had every intention to pay for your ticket when you ad the opportunity perhaps when alighting from the Dart).
Under the Bye Law the Ticket Inspector is entitled to ask for your name and address and unfortunately you refused to give it. This is an offence. 
However considering the entire manner in which you were dealt with by the Ticket Inspector your refusal was reasonable.
You could make a complaint which may get an apology or alternatively just put it down to experience. The Dart officials could very easily start a prosecution which will end up wasting a lot of your time whether you are found guilty or no. and


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## starlite68 (25 Oct 2009)

for what its worth i think you should make a complaint...you done everything you could to buy a ticket and then were treated shamefully by the inspectors,the very least you should get is a letter of apology.


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## z107 (25 Oct 2009)

> Try making excuses with ticket inspectors on any of the public transport systems in continental European countries. It does not work and if you don't pay the on-the-spot fine you will get arrested by police. In some countries you are taken off the train/tram/metro just to pay the fine.


A few months ago, we didn't have a ticket for the last in a series of German trains. We were worried the train would leave without us, so we just got on. Ticket purchasing facilities were in full working order at the station.
The ticket inspector came on, looked at our other tickets, and allowed us to purchase tickets from him. No police were involved. He did ask why we didn't have valid tickets, but must have used his common sense, and saw that we'd had been compliant in purchasing all the other tickets, and were not out to rip them off.
I always thought it was common enough practise to buy tickets on the train. I've frequently done this in the UK.


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## darag (25 Oct 2009)

I guess it was an inter-city train?  I should have stated that I meant urban pubic transport - like trams, urban buses or S-Bahn (equivalent of DART).


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## MandaC (25 Oct 2009)

Yorrick said:


> You attempted to purchase a ticket at the commencement of your journey. The machine was broken and there was no one in the ticket office. The first opportunity you got to purchase a ticket was when you were approached on the train by the Ticket Inspector. You explained the scenario to him and offered to pay the ticket. ( I am presuming of course that you had every intention to pay for your ticket when you ad the opportunity perhaps when alighting from the Dart).
> Under the Bye Law the Ticket Inspector is entitled to ask for your name and address and unfortunately you refused to give it. This is an offence.
> However considering the entire manner in which you were dealt with by the Ticket Inspector your refusal was reasonable.
> You could make a complaint which may get an apology or alternatively just put it down to experience. The Dart officials could very easily start a prosecution which will end up wasting a lot of your time whether you are found guilty or no. and



I would be with Yorrick on this one.  However, I would make a complaint.    You did everything in your power to buy a ticket and could not. What did he expect you to do.  Especially as another passenger had verified the story.  I sometimes think these jobsworths know who they are picking on.  If it was a drugged up Junkie (like I used to see on the Luas) they would not have approached him.


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## schmile (25 Oct 2009)

What it is all the signs say? No ticket no excuse. 
The least they could have done is check with the station to see if you were telling the truth though which you were obviously.


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## IsleOfMan (25 Oct 2009)

I was travelling from Varenna in Italy to Bergamo recently. The small train station was closed because it was a Sunday, the ticket machine was broken. When we got on the train the inspector and his colleague approached us and showed us a book. Do you speak English he said. I thought to myself that I was being shown a book of rules about train travel in Italy. Much to my surprise it was a book called Inglourious Basterds and he simply wanted to know what the word "Hillybilly" meant. We were never asked for a ticket and he even went out of his way to show us where to change trains in Lecco for our onward journey to Bergamo.


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## Slash (25 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel.  It's as simple as that no matter what.  It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider.  If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.



I agree. The job of the inspector is to enforce the rules. He may have been rude, but that's another matter.

If making a formal complaint will make you feel better, do it. It will be your word against theirs, which will probably make you even more frustrated. Witnesses? i doubt if they will want to get involved.


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## starlite68 (25 Oct 2009)

Slash said:


> If making a formal complaint will make you feel better, do it. It will be your word against theirs, which will probably make you even more frustrated. Witnesses? i doubt if they will want to get involved.


its not about making yourself feel better..if a complaint is not made these inspectors go on thinking they can speak to the public in what tone and manner they like. most companies will take a complaint of this nature very seriously and have it investigated,its in there own intrest to do so.


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## Sarn (25 Oct 2009)

Perhaps Irish Rail should have a contact number clearly displayed  in the station when all machines are out of order and the desk is unmanned. Considering the distance between stations it is ridiculous to expect someone to forego travelling simply because there is no option to purchase a ticket.

I would send in a letter of complaint, if these issues are not highlighted then nothing will be done about it.


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## z107 (25 Oct 2009)

> I guess it was an inter-city train? I should have stated that I meant urban pubic transport - like trams, urban buses or S-Bahn (equivalent of DART).


Yes, it was an intercity train.

If I was in the same position as the OP, I would still get on the Dart without a ticket. I wouldn't let Irish rail ruin my travel plans due to their incompetence.

(BTW, who decided to rip up the Irish rail infrastructure over the last 80 or so years? - This really infuriates me.)


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## Brighid (25 Oct 2009)

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post, your replies have been most welcome and appreciated, it was a very horrible experience for me. I worked within the public service for nearly 40 years and I do not believe that I ever experienced anything like the sheer arrogance and bad manners that was displayed to me last Saturday. ( I would not have done it to anyone in a million years) I felt very disrespected and abused and at no stage did I believe that I had done anything wrong. I tried in every way to get a ticket and I really thought there would not be an issue if I got one on the dart without one, thought no problem will get one on the dart. There is no notice in Bayside to say that I would be publicly ridiculed if I did not have a current ticket, neither is there a notice stating that I must have a ticket before boarding the dart. By the way Dearg, I did pay for my journey when I got off in Connolly, I always pay my way and it is NEVER acceptable in my book to humiliate anyone in public or private regardless of the circumstances. I just wonder what kind of message we are sending out to visitors to our country when we have these type of Gestapo type practices. A very nice foriegn gentleman whos name I have forgotten approached me in Connolly and asked me if I was ok, I was embarrased that he should have witnessed this, he was so kind. Obviously, I intend to take this further, I am a strong believer in fairplay but hey I draw the line at unacceptable behaviour and I believe being sorrounded by three officials from Irish Rail on a Sat morning accusing me of lying in the midst of commuters doesnt sit well with me. Moreover, when certain commuters saw fit to intervene they were told to 'stop shouting' eventhough they werent and 'not get involved or they would be put off' I have real difficulty with the pseudo officialdom that was adopted. Dearg agree with you on one aspect only, the fact that I was going to a funeral is irrelevant I just said it as it was, not to score any points no need to go overboard about it, get a life comes to mind.


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## ericsson (26 Oct 2009)

I completely agree Brighid. I just read your post and I dont think you ment to score extra points by saying you were going to a funeral, but rather just an extra stress which you had. If i were you I would definately write a letter of complaint. All to many people are treated like second class citizens when they have done nothing wrong. Maybe some people dodge paying for the dart but everyone cannot be tarnished with this stick if there are no staff to buy a ticket from!

Ericsson


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## Mpsox (26 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> The rule is if you don't have a ticket, you're not entitled to travel. It's as simple as that no matter what. It doesn't matter if you're going to a funeral or a wedding or just fancy a view of the bay from under your hoodie while sipping a can of cider. If you don't like this rule don't use the DART.


 
Actually that's not 100% correct. see attached from railusers ireland
http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_evasion.php

Regardless of the rights and wrongs over whether or not the OP could buy a ticket, the ticket inspectors do not have the right to harass, intimidate or bully any member of the public.


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## Tinker Bell (26 Oct 2009)

Mpsox said:


> Actually that's not 100% correct. see attached from railusers ireland
> http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_evasion.php
> 
> Regardless of the rights and wrongs over whether or not the OP could buy a ticket, the ticket inspectors do not have the right to harass, intimidate or bully any member of the public.


Well done Mpsox. But surely a notice board could have been put inside the window saying to pay onboard. Is the relevant authority afraid of a historic rush?


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## Complainer (27 Oct 2009)

Brighid said:


> II proceeded to the machines and tried unsuccessfully with the assistance of two others to get a ticket to no avail.


What was the specific problem with the ticket machines? I had trouble with a machine in Bray last week not accepting my credit card, but one of the other machines accepted it.


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## liaconn (27 Oct 2009)

I would definitely put a formal complaint in writing. If Iarnrod Eireann has decided to introduce a zero tolerance rule towards fare evasion, then it has to be backed up by proper procedures for instances such as the one you describe. This doesn't seem to have been the case and the handling of the issue was left up to a couple of ignorant (and by the sounds of it, not very bright) officials.


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## gianni (27 Oct 2009)

Talk to Joe...


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## baldyman27 (27 Oct 2009)

gianni said:


> Talk to Joe...


 
Yeah, I couldn't quite place the OP's accent, could you?


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## Joanne1 (27 Oct 2009)

How do they expect you to buy a ticket if the machines don't work and there is noboby at the ticket counter?

Are you sure one of the machines weren't working as i think there is more than one at most stations.  

How did other people at the station purchase tickets?


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

baldyman27 said:


> Yeah, I couldn't quite place the OP's accent, could you?


  two guesses only!!


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

Joanne1 said:


> How do they expect you to buy a ticket if the machines don't work and there is noboby at the ticket counter?
> 
> Are you sure one of the machines weren't working as i think there is more than one at most stations.
> 
> How did other people at the station purchase tickets?


 Joanne, yeh there were two machines but I had a similar problem with them. When u press destination and the payment comes up, in my case 4.70 euro, I went to insert the money but it wouldnt take it, apparently I should then have pressed on the 4.70 but there was no instruction to do that so that is where I came a cropper!!


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## Complainer (27 Oct 2009)

Brighid said:


> Joanne, yeh there were two machines but I had a similar problem with them. When u press destination and the payment comes up, in my case 4.70 euro, I went to insert the money but it wouldnt take it, apparently I should then have pressed on the 4.70 but there was no instruction to do that so that is where I came a cropper!!


From memory, you have to choose 'payment type' at that stage - cash or credit card. 

Is it really fair to beat up on Irish Rail because you couldn't work the ticket machine?


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## enoxy (27 Oct 2009)

Last year I was on the dart with my wife at about 10pm on a week night. There were 2 people (man and woman) in our carriage who were drinking beer from cans but were minding their own business. Two 'private security' shaven-headed thugs used by Iarnroid Eireann got into the carriage and started harrassing the couple, trying to goad them into a response. 

Myself and my wife intervened and said that we were disgusted at the treatment of this couple. The two security men tried unsuccessfully to silence us, saying that it was none of our business. We persisted in telling the security men that we would report them if they continued to harrass the couple. The security men then got off at the next stop. It was a bizarre incident but the OP's comments brought it back to mind.


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## Complainer (27 Oct 2009)

enoxy said:


> Last year I was on the dart with my wife at about 10pm on a week night. There were 2 people (man and woman) in our carriage who were drinking beer from cans but were minding their own business. Two 'private security' shaven-headed thugs used by Iarnroid Eireann got into the carriage and started harrassing the couple, trying to goad them into a response.
> 
> Myself and my wife intervened and said that we were disgusted at the treatment of this couple. The two security men tried unsuccessfully to silence us, saying that it was none of our business. We persisted in telling the security men that we would report them if they continued to harrass the couple. The security men then got off at the next stop. It was a bizarre incident but the OP's comments brought it back to mind.


Mobile phone cameras are great for incidents like this!


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

Complainer said:


> From memory, you have to choose 'payment type' at that stage - cash or credit card.
> 
> Is it really fair to beat up on Irish Rail because you couldn't work the ticket machine?


 
It is not fair for them to beat me up emotionally


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## mathepac (27 Oct 2009)

enoxy said:


> ...  shaven-headed thugs ....


Oops, that's me snookered.

OP sounded good on Dessie's programme today. I heard some bits of the show from other people with similar stories. Did anyone from IÉ ring in to comment or apologise? Did anyone highlight the byelws issue above? It sounds like IÉ staff need manners training and a bye-laws update. It must have been a dreadful experience.


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

OP sounded good on Dessie's programme today. I heard some bits of the show from other people with similar stories. Did anyone from IÉ ring in to comment or apologise? Did anyone highlight the byelws issue above? It sounds like IÉ staff need manners training and a bye-laws update. It must have been a dreadful experience.[/quote]
Thanks Math, no one contacted from IE, thought they might have but I guess they were delighted that Joe Public was getting the message not to board without a ticket or else.... Anyway, just to say a big thanks to all of you for your support, comments and advice and it certainly did facilitate me to 'let off off steam'.


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## baldyman27 (27 Oct 2009)

enoxy said:


> shaven-headed thugs


 


mathepac said:


> Oops, that's me snookered.


 
Me too, snookered and looking like a snooker ball.


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## z107 (27 Oct 2009)

> Talk to Joe...


Who's Joe?


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## mathepac (27 Oct 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Who's Joe?


Joooeee Duffaaaahh.


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## z107 (27 Oct 2009)

Ah! He sells cars, doesn't he?

I suppose buying a car is one way of stopping such altercations.


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

:d:d


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

:d


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## Brighid (27 Oct 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> ah! He sells cars, doesn't he?
> 
> I suppose buying a car is one way of stopping such altercations.


 :d


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## darag (27 Oct 2009)

So let's summarise, Brighid.  There wasn't anything wrong with the ticket machines, it's just that you didn't know to select the payment type option?  As a result you felt you were not obliged to buy a ticket?  Then you refused to provide a name and address to officials even though you are required to do so if you don't have a ticket?  Then your friend calls them the Gestapo?  And you wonder why they were abusive?

I've no doubt you were upset by the incident but you certainly didn't help the situation by not accepting that you were in the wrong from the start.


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## Brighid (28 Oct 2009)

Darag, unfortunately you still dont get it, no worries I understand.


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## darag (28 Oct 2009)

I'm pretty sure I get it Brighid and it's obvious you don't understand.

You were treated rudely and abusively Irish Rail staff and this upset you.  You have my sympathy in that regard.  But that is the only grounds for your complaint.

What you don't get is that you were completely in the wrong.  You didn't have a ticket when you should have had one and you refused to provide your name and address when you were obliged to.

The rules are for everyone.  And ignorance of the rules is no excuse.


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## gebbel (28 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> I'm pretty sure I get it Brighid and it's obvious you don't understand.
> 
> You were treated rudely and abusively Irish Rail staff and this upset you. You have my sympathy in that regard. But that is the only grounds for your complaint.
> 
> ...


 
I think the above pretty much sums it up. And that's not for one minute condoning the outrageous response of the rail officials, for which we all should have a lot of sympathy for the OP.


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## starlite68 (28 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> I'm pretty sure I get it Brighid and it's obvious you don't understand.
> 
> You were treated rudely and abusively Irish Rail staff and this upset you. You have my sympathy in that regard. But that is the only grounds for your complaint.


thats what the OP is complining about...the abusive manner which they were treated ...what dose it cost to be civil and polite to another person?


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## darag (28 Oct 2009)

starlite68 said:


> thats what the OP is complining about...the abusive manner which they were treated ...what dose it cost to be civil and polite to another person?


Hold on a second.

There was no abuse or "offensive behaviour" until Brighid escalated the situation.

The ticket inspector completely reasonably asked to see her ticket - she didn't have one and we all agree she should have had one.

He then asked for her name and address which he is completely entitled to do.  But she refused (in fact she admitted she was tempted to give a false one - i.e. commit an even worse offense).

Now, not only is she in the wrong in not having a ticket, she deliberately made the ticket inspector's job impossible. 

She has now escalated the situation and, according to her own account, it was only THEN that the burly back-up arrived and the officials started acted rudely (however calling officials trying doing their job "Gestapo" as her friend did is hardly going improve their mood).

As I said, the rudeness of the officials (after she escalated the situation) is her only ground for complaint.  She should be grateful that they decided to let her off without paying the fine never mind that the guards weren't called to arrest her.  To call her treatement "horrific" is a complete overstatement given her own behaviour.


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## batty (28 Oct 2009)

OP, Where was the Ticket Sales Person in Bayside Station on the morning you tried to purchase the ticket?  Was there nobody there or had he just gone to the loo?

Yesterday I tried to purchase a ticket using the machines in Raheny station.  They were both out of order.  There was no Ticket Sales Person there.  A few people walked through with no ticket.  I waited & the Sales person came back after 3 minutes.

When I got on the train an inspector looked for tickets.  The people with no tickets were requested to get off at the next station & buy a ticket,  Made sense to me.


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## Odea (28 Oct 2009)

batty said:


> .
> 
> When I got on the train an inspector looked for tickets. The people with no tickets were requested to get off at the next station & buy a ticket, Made sense to me.


 
You should be able to purchase a ticket on the train. In other European countries you are expected to "find" the ticket inspector on the train and purchase your ticket.

You shouldn't have to wait for the inspector to come to you. Proper signage and a proper system in place would go a long way to clarifying the situation.

There is nothing worse than a "tin God" though.


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## liaconn (28 Oct 2009)

Odea said:


> You should be able to purchase a ticket on the train. In other European countries you are expected to "find" the ticket inspector on the train and purchase your ticket.


 

I agree. As long as you have a ticket when you're going through the exit barrier at your place of arrival, why should it matter whether you bought it on the train or at the station. If you don't get one at the Station it should be up to you to make sure you get one before disembarking from the train or else take the consequences.


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## Odea (28 Oct 2009)

I suspect that it is more to do with Iarnroid Eireann suiting themselves rather than their customers. Can you imagine trying to make your way to the ticket seller on the train at rush hour? Can you imagine Iarnroid Eireann employing extra staff to sell tickets? Can you imagine somebody in authority saying " How about improving our signage"?


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## Mpsox (28 Oct 2009)

darag said:


> As I said, the rudeness of the officials (after she escalated the situation) is her only ground for complaint. She should be grateful that they decided to let her off without paying the fine never mind that the guards weren't called to arrest her. To call her treatement "horrific" is a complete overstatement given her own behaviour.


 

I don't agree with this. I believe there are a number of grounds for complaint here

Firstly the fact that the ticket office was unmanned
Secondly the fact that neither the OP or 2 other people who tried to assist her were able to get the ticket machine to work. If they could not understand how the ticket machine worked, then that suggests that the instructions available to use the machine are unclear or else that there was something actually wrong with the machine.
She was accused of lying by the inspector, in front of witnesses, a potentially slanderous comment which is damaging to her reputation
At no stage did she refuse to purchase a ticket, on 3 occassions, at the ticket office, the machines and the inspector she attempted to do so and all 3 occassions IR either did not provide her with the adequate means of doing so or refused to sell her a ticket
The fact that she thought of giving incorrect personal details is irrelevant, she didn't, simple as that

If she was genuinely afraid to give out her contact details to the inspector and his colleagues, given their threatening behaviour, then on grounds of her own health and safety, she was probably correct

The inspector and his colleagues would find it far easier to do their jobs if they behaved like reasonable human beings


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## starlite68 (28 Oct 2009)

Mpsox said:


> I don't agree with this. I believe there are a number of grounds for complaint here
> 
> Firstly the fact that the ticket office was unmanned
> Secondly the fact that neither the OP or 2 other people who tried to assist her were able to get the ticket machine to work. If they could not understand how the ticket machine worked, then that suggests that the instructions available to use the machine are unclear or else that there was something actually wrong with the machine.
> ...


 well said mpsox, that sums it all up....and to the OP i say once again definitly do complain about this, any company that depends on the public will take this in a proper manner and follow it through.


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## z107 (28 Oct 2009)

Indeed. It's obvious the system is badly designed. I wouldn't go blaming the user.


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## mathepac (28 Oct 2009)

starlite68 said:


> .. any company that depends on the public will take this in a proper manner and follow it through.


This crowd won't, IMHO. They have a monopoly and treating a customer disgracefully and having it publicised won't make any significant dent in their turnover or profits.


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## Joanne1 (28 Oct 2009)

> Joanne, yeh there were two machines but I had a similar problem with them. When u press destination and the payment comes up, in my case 4.70 euro, I went to insert the money but it wouldnt take it, apparently I should then have pressed on the 4.70 but there was no instruction to do that so that is where I came a cropper!!


Well in that case you can hardly make a complaint.  If it was impossible to purchase a ticket it was a different story.  

I have to say I have used the DART many times and not had a negative experience.


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## casiopea (28 Oct 2009)

Joanne1 said:


> Well in that case you can hardly make a complaint.  If it was impossible to purchase a ticket it was a different story.



Why not? Herself and 2 other people could not use the machine. It was not clear how to process the payment.  The fault here does lie with the machine/machine instructions not with the OP.


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## Complainer (28 Oct 2009)

casiopea said:


> Why not? Herself and 2 other people could not use the machine. It was not clear how to process the payment.  The fault here does lie with the machine/machine instructions not with the OP.


But if every other DART customer can use the machine?


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## liaconn (28 Oct 2009)

I agree with Casiopea. If Iarnrod Eireann are going to get all draconian and 'zero tolerance' about purchasing tickets, then there should be someone on hand, manning the ticket office and available to assist people who can't use the machines.


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## Complainer (28 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> and available to assist people who can't use the machines.


It kinda defeats the purpose of having the machines in the first place.


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## liaconn (28 Oct 2009)

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I wasn't talking about someone standing there permanently, but just someone generally available, either at the ticket office or at a customer service desk who could deal with any complaints or queries about the machines. Either that, or be a bit more flexible and allow people to purchase their ticket on the train.


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## dereko1969 (28 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean. But I wasn't talking about someone standing there permanently, but just someone generally available, either at the ticket office or at a customer service desk who could deal with any complaints or queries about the machines. Either that, or be a bit more flexible and allow people to purchase their ticket on the train.


 
so you want IE to start hiring additional people to allow idiots who aren't able to use a ticket machine to buy their ticket on the train? nonsense.

as complainer stated thousands of people are able to use the ticket machines every day without a problem, the OP then decides to not give her address to the ticket inspector which she is required to do under the bye-laws. while not condoning the alleged over-reaction of the Inspector I can understand that his patience may have been tried when being told a lie - which the OP has now admitted, there was nothing wrong with the machine, only with her ability to operate it.

regarding the 'shaven-headed thugs' and their altercation with people drinking alcohol on the Dart, it's *illegal* to drink alcohol on the Dart, the 'thugs' were doing their job, have you seen some of the yobs drinking on the trains? hassling people and p*ssing on the train? that's why the 'thugs' are employed, to stop people doing that.


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## liaconn (28 Oct 2009)

I think any train station should have at least one member of staff around who can give assistance to its passengers. It's called customer service. People who can't use machines aren't necessarily 'idiots'. What about elderly people who aren't used to computers/technology or tourists who's English isn't very good. Maybe you should get a job as an Inspector on the Dart. You seem to have the appropriate attitude!


ps I didn't make the post about the 'shaven-headed thugs'.


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## Brighid (28 Oct 2009)

dereko1969 said:


> so you want IE to start hiring additional people to allow idiots who aren't able to use a ticket machine to buy their ticket on the train? nonsense.
> 
> as complainer stated thousands of people are able to use the ticket machines every day without a problem, the OP then decides to not give her address to the ticket inspector which she is required to do under the bye-laws. while not condoning the alleged over-reaction of the Inspector I can understand that his patience may have been tried when being told a lie - which the OP has now admitted, there was nothing wrong with the machine, only with her ability to operate it.
> 
> First of all I am not an idiot, or regarded as one by anybody who knows me. The machine dident take the money whether it was broken or it was my inability to work it I am not sure. The dart inspector told me that I should have pressed another button! That is not lying....... what are you like? and you know what I wouldnt dream of giving my name and address to an aggresive man. Somehow, I am guessing that you will have a problem understanding what I have just said.


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## dereko1969 (28 Oct 2009)

liaconn, i know you didn't mention the shaven headed thugs, that's why i used a separate paragraph to differentiate, apologies if you thought I was referring to you there. There are staff at all (bar Broombridge) stations, they may not have been at the counter at the exact moment the OP needed one but as someone else pointed out they probably were not gone for long.

OP apologies for using the word idiot, however the machines are easy to use and what you should have stated to the inspector was that you were not able to get the machine to work not that it was broken, when the machine gives you the ticket options you must agree to that ticket otherwise you can't pay and that was what the Inspector was trying to explain. 
I still can't see why you wouldn't have given your name to someone wearing an Irish Rail uniform, the fact is that you were travelling without a valid ticket and I don't have a problem understanding what you've said.


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## Brighid (28 Oct 2009)

dereko1969 said:


> liaconn, i know you didn't mention the shaven headed thugs, that's why i used a separate paragraph to differentiate, apologies if you thought I was referring to you there. There are staff at all (bar Broombridge) stations, they may not have been at the counter at the exact moment the OP needed one but as someone else pointed out they probably were not gone for long.
> 
> OP apologies for using the word idiot, however the machines are easy to use and what you should have stated to the inspector was that you were not able to get the machine to work not that it was broken, when the machine gives you the ticket options you must agree to that ticket otherwise you can't pay and that was what the Inspector was trying to explain.
> I still can't see why you wouldn't have given your name to someone wearing an Irish Rail uniform, the fact is that you were travelling without a valid ticket and I don't have a problem understanding what you've said.


Well obviously the machines werent easy to use as already stated and furthermore, you werent there and you have no idea what the inspector said or did not say. I dont care if he had the crown jewels on, he was aggresive, ignorant and a bully and certainly not someone that I would give my demographic details to. I think this thread has been exhausted and I dont wish to respond further, as I said previously thanks to everyone who supported me, and to those of you who did not well, you are entitled to your opinions, it doesnt mean that I will take them on board


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## Complainer (28 Oct 2009)

Brighid said:


> you are entitled to your opinions, it doesnt mean that I will take them on board


Don't be surprised that Irish Rail will treat you with the same courtesy. Before you go, have a look at their publication re fixed penalties; [broken link removed]


> 8. WHAT IF THE TICKET OFFICE IS CLOSED OR THE
> TICKET VENDING MACHINES ARE NOT WORKING OR
> THE STATION HAS NO TICKET OFFICE?
> Ticket vending machines are in operation through out our
> ...


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## Sue Ellen (28 Oct 2009)

Brighid said:


> I think this thread has been exhausted and I dont wish to respond further, as I said previously thanks to everyone who supported me, and to those of you who did not well, you are entitled to your opinions, it doesnt mean that I will take them on board



Thread closed.


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