# Belarmine Plaza



## ryancol (16 Mar 2009)

Hi
I m a first time buyer so excuse any ignorance and no smart answers please.
My Wife and I are currently in neogations for a new three bedroom apartment in _Belarmine Plaza_.
Castlethorn were originally looking for 375k, managed to reduce this down by 38k.
The apartment is a turn key solution 1000sq feet and really nice. I have rented in this area for the last five years and really like it. I m only 5 minutes from work. 
My mortgage will be fixed at 2.49% for the first two years.(ICS). The only issue I have is the property management fee is €1900 a year, steep I think.
My rent was €1300 my current mortgage repayment will be €1180. ( factoring in the management fee per month)
Am I getting a good deal in your opinion. I was on daft and my home 3 bedrooms are a lot more in Stepaside. Plus I get €5000 interior voucher if I move in within 21 day. ( nothing else to spend on)
I m tired of paying rent and I know house prices might drop a lot more. I suppose in a worse case scenario I can rent a rent a room and get at least €450 a month for it. 
The Luas will be only a 10 minute walk away when its completed. Any feed back would be great I m getting a lot of  
negativity from people where on the other hand some people are saying that i m getting a good deal.


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## Kate10 (16 Mar 2009)

Hi Ryancol,

Personally, I think a lot of people are scared and a lot of people got burned and then a lot of people just like being negative.  So negativity is something you'll hear a lot of.

It sounds generally like you are getting a good deal.  However please remember that you are basing your calculations on a interest rate that is as low as it gets.  You have to stress test everything on a more reasonable interest rate.  What would you be paying if your interest rate was 4.5%?  Would the transaction still make sense for you?


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## Ruam (16 Mar 2009)

You are getting roughly 10 % off the asking price.  I really think you could do a lot better in today's climate.  Developers are desperate to sell as hardly anything is selling now.  

I know we are not supposed to talk about falling or rising house prices but there is only one way prices are going.

My advice is keep renting for a year or so and then decide.

Ruam


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## TonyD (16 Mar 2009)

A few points I can add.

I'd agree with Kate in that your first couple of years will be a very low fixed rate that you will have. Check with the mortgage provider and ask them what rate your mortgage will roll on that after the yr is up, proably the SVR and base your repayment on that rather than the fixed rate.(Whos knows where the rates will be 2 years time though)

Obviously if you are buying the place as a home any depreciation shouldn't affect you as you will not be selling. If you can afford to buy are happy and think its a good deal, why not, just weigh up everything is my advice.

Also check the management fees with the agent for the last few years, is it steadily increasing year on year, as € 1,900 as it stands is quite steep, that in itself is more than a months mortgage repayment.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.


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## ryancol (16 Mar 2009)

thanks lads


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## Buggy (18 Mar 2009)

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

There's a 3-bed duplex in Belarmine asking 360k at the moment so you'd probably get that for the same price.

Personally I don't like apartments. Really don't like the idea of my kithcen being one end of a small living/dining room.

Agree with posts above on the interest rate issue as well.


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## SusanD (18 Mar 2009)

Hi Ryancol,

I am also a first time buyer and am wondering about the implications of buying at this time. I am due to put a deposit on a one bed in Belarmine Plaza. The apartments are lovely. The three bed is fabulous and honestly I think they are better than the other three bed duplexes around Belarmine that someone else mentioned. One of my friends has put her deposit on one of the two beds also, and I was talking to two other people up there at the weekend who have put a deposit on ones aswell.
I wonder how much more prices will go down by, sometimes you just have to take the chance. It doesn't matter how much it goes down by as long as it is back up by the time you go to sell!
The thing that worries me about these apartments is both the Halting site and the social housing out on the Enniskerry road, how do you feel about that? this could be a reason the prices are so good.
There is the Bus service within the development that would bring you directly to Sandyford Luas and out as far as Donnybrook Bus Depot (46a route) which is always a plus, both for selling on and for renting.
The decision is tough!!


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## ryancol (18 Mar 2009)

Hey Susan
I lived in the area for the last 4 years and there has been no movement on the Halting site. I for one will object to this even if I was renting. Belarmine Plaza will be at least 900 meters from the "Purpose Halting Site" . Parkview on the other hand will be right next door. Don t get me wrong I don t hate travellers, but they do destroy everywhere they are put . I might be racist but it's what everybody thinks. I don t see our local TD living beside them. Anyways in the current environment any new purchase is a risk. The 47 bus is really handy in the morning drops me down to Sandyford in 10 minutes. Plus the Luas will be pretty close also(whenever its done). I am going to go ahead with the purchase as I love this area. Theres too many part time George Lee's and Eddie Hobbbs out there.


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## SusanD (19 Mar 2009)

Hey Ryan,

Yes the poor people in Parkview. I agree that Belarmine Plaza is a whole development away but I worry that because those apartments are over shops it is a place for people of Belarmine including the travellers to congregate. Wouldn't be good for me or the resale value. Also when bringing up visitors they would be driving right by it. And for that reason I have decided not too go ahead with it, makes me too nervous! 
Those apartments are fabulous, there is no doubt about that. And the three bed does have the wow factor. Good luck with it.
P.S. I was onto AIB this morning and their interest rate when down last night! Good news


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## Buggy (19 Mar 2009)

SusanD said:


> Hi Ryancol,
> 
> I am also a first time buyer and am wondering about the implications of buying at this time. I am due to put a deposit on a one bed in Belarmine Plaza. The apartments are lovely. The three bed is fabulous and honestly I think they are better than the other three bed duplexes around Belarmine that someone else mentioned. One of my friends has put her deposit on one of the two beds also, and I was talking to two other people up there at the weekend who have put a deposit on ones aswell.
> I wonder how much more prices will go down by, sometimes you just have to take the chance. It doesn't matter how much it goes down by as long as it is back up by the time you go to sell!
> ...


Duplex with Garden or Apartment with no garden
Duplex with En-suite or Apartment with one bathroom
Duplex with large kitchen/dining room or Apartment with small kitchen/dining/living room

Why, exactly, do you honestly think the apartments are better than the duplexes?

I can't understand people who say it doesn't matter how much it goes down by. Do you really not mind borrowing say 50K more than you have to and paying interest on this extra 50K over 25 or 30 years?

The expression 'more money than sense' comes to mind.


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## ryancol (22 Mar 2009)

Are you George Lee in disguise Buggy. Have you been in any of the apartments in Belarmine Plaza. I think you should have a look before commenting.


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## jammacjam (22 Mar 2009)

ryancol said:


> Are you George Lee in disguise Buggy. Have you been in any of the apartments in Belarmine Plaza. I think you should have a look before commenting.


 
You ask for advise on one of the biggest purchases of your life and the minute somebody says something which if you listened could save you thousands and you dismiss them? strange reaction.  I would be very careful for paying over 300k for an appartment at the moment. very careful if I were you.


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## ryancol (24 Mar 2009)

Thanks jammmacjam for your wise words. I m not even going to argue with you as you know everything. Do you have tomorrow nights lotto numbers while your at it.


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## mrsg09 (24 Mar 2009)

jammacjam, 

i would agree with you on the price, people jst are not buying apartments anymore, esp as you can get fab 2 bed town houses with gardens at the moment in stepaside for very good prices.

i dont think it is appropriate to be insulted or mocked for offering advise or an opinion either.

i recently commented on belarmine- we sold there recently and moved to another estate. one thing i would encourage prospective purchasers to be wary of is the parking in belarmine, it is a nightmare. we could never get parking on our road, neighbours on both sides rented and had 4 cars each. only 1.5 car space per dwelling in that development. no assigned spaces.

it is just something to be wary of.


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## curiously (24 Mar 2009)

Hi ryancool - I lived in the stepaside area for 4 years before selling my house last year. I know belermine very well had have friends living there. I'm renting a large 2 bed apartment in the foxrock area now (1100sq/ft) and while I'm really enjoying it I would be wary of ever actually owning an apartment. With the house of cards crumbling i think apartments will be hit hard but that said, if you're happy to live in an apartment for the longer term it's all relative.

It sounds like you're getting an "ok" deal - I would argue you could do better and Castlethorn might be convinced to give more discount. Remember, no-one is really buying apartments and the halting site you mentioned would put off a lot of potential purchasers. I would have said during the boom time it was unlikely to happen but now we're in recession I'd argue you're far more likely to see the halting site become a reality as DLRCOCO will be under social pressure and will look for easy ways to relieve this burden. 

There is a whole block of apartments at the bottom of the entrance road which is social housing and I would be more wary of that - I have experience living beside some social tenants and it was a 4 month nighmare. 

In terms of mortgage - it might be worth considering a longer term fixed rate - interest rates are on the floor and can only go one way and that is up. Who knows but it certainly would not surprise me if we were paying 5% - 6% in five years time.

Personally though, I'd advise sitting tight and waiting as we are still on the downward slope...


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## SusanD (24 Mar 2009)

Buggy said:


> Duplex with Garden or Apartment with no garden
> Duplex with En-suite or Apartment with one bathroom
> Duplex with large kitchen/dining room or Apartment with small kitchen/dining/living room
> 
> ...




I agree that on a whole most duplexes are better, however I have seen both the Duplexes in Belarmine and the apartment in which Ryan is buying. And If I had a choice I would definitely pick Belarmine Plaza.

I mean that it doesn't matter how much it goes down by as long as it is up again by the time you are selling. If you are living in it and it is your home then it only matters as long as you are not loosing out when going to sell it. 

I don't think Ryan will be in this apartment for the next 25 or 30 years, maybe 10 though and I think he could make a profit on it...it is a good price for what he is getting.


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## foghorn (24 Mar 2009)

ryancol said:


> Thanks jammmacjam for your wise words. I m not even going to argue with you as you know everything. Do you have tomorrow nights lotto numbers while your at it.


 
I'm not sure why ask for advice if you only want to hear positive feedback.


You say in the OP "I suppose in a wor*se case scenario* I can rent a rent a room and get at least €450 a month for it." Did you do a search on daft.ie? I just did, and rooms in Castleknock start at €275.  That's your worst case scenario.


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## ryancol (25 Mar 2009)

Thanks Susan. Foghorn I not going to be living in Castleknock. Check rents on Daft for Stepaside your talking 400-450 on average. I got a further 6k reduction from Castlehorn yesterday ( a combination of me moaning about property management fee and other bits and pieces) and we have now agreed on a price of 331k. As I stated already it has everything in it ( worth about 10k and I get a 5k voucher for interior) . So in theory I m paying 316k for a three bedroom apartment in Stepaside I m happy with that and I m about to draw down my mortagage. Thanks for your feedback


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## Buggy (25 Mar 2009)

ryancol

Have a look at this.

[broken link removed]

I reckon this might have an effect on prices in Stepaside given the amount of affordable units in Parkview and Belarmine.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## Buggy (26 Mar 2009)

This might be of interest as well.

[broken link removed]


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## charliemacck (29 Mar 2009)

foghorn said:


> I'm not sure why ask for advice if you only want to hear positive feedback.
> 
> 
> You say in the OP "I suppose in a wor*se case scenario* I can rent a rent a room and get at least €450 a month for it." Did you do a search on daft.ie? I just did, and rooms in Castleknock start at €275. That's your worst case scenario.


 
Am just curious, but why was foghorn banned for that last piece of advice?


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## April4 (2 Apr 2009)

Hi - I too am in the process of buying a 1 bedroomed apartment in Belarmine Plaza through the easi steps scheme. It's all happened very quickly and I'm still a little unsure. I too am tired of renting and sharing. I don't know this area very well at all and had no idea about a proposed halting site although I did see the signs for the affordable housing. I don't drive so have to rely on public transport and wonder how best to get to Blackrock from there. I finish work late at night, how safe is it for walking from where ever the bus drops me off to get to the apartment? And I would be interested to know what people think of the easi steps scheme?


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## Cheeus (2 Apr 2009)

I think Belarmine represents the best value you can get on the southside at the moment. As for the neighbourhood - it is a mix of people from the very wealthy, to young professionals/young families, to those in rented private or council owned properties. Take a walk through the development in the afternoon and you'll pass people out running, walking dogs, couples with babies, children playing in the playground etc. People tend to say hello to each other a lot while out walking which is something kind of rare in many developments now. There's a nice feeling of it being a real neighbourhood, not just anonymous apt blocks. Many people rent or buy small properties there initally and then want to remain in the area when they move up the property ladder, I think this is a very good sign.

Prices are low now because the builders want to get rid of recently built apts before prices fall any further. When the remaining units are sold I think prices for resale will compare favourably with other areas where you can currently buy at the same price.

As for walking there at night time; I would say it is safer than anywhere else you could buy at the same price. Personally I bought there because I wanted to be able to go for walks alone in the evening and didn't want to worry about anti-social behaviour. There are lovely green areas with streams and nice mature trees for walking around. Take the same care you would walking anywhere late at night. It's not as exclusive as somewhere like foxrock, but much safer than places like the docklands, city centre, blanchardstown, santry, tallaght, areas of lucan etc.

The 47 bus would be outside your door and would take you as far as stillorgan/donnybrook. 44 goes through the village and goes from Enniskerry to city centre. There are other buses too from lambs cross and I think one of these goes to Blackrock. Luas will be within short walk next year.

The halting site has been delayed and people are still objecting to it. Looks like it mightn't ever get the go ahead. If it does go ahead it is a four unit site only which is isn't big and it's not the same site as Belarmine. Would have a separate entrance down the road.

The presence of affordable housing won't effect anyone buying at current prices. I bought under affordable housing and paid more than you will pay for your place now - so I couldn't undercut you when it comes to selling. The people who are negatively effected by affordable housing are those who bought 2 beds for 450k - and they are more effected by you buying for even lower prices now. What's more those who bought on affordable are all young educated professional owner occupiers - much better than having investors renting out beside you. Bulk of affordable units will most likely sell now on the open market privately as prices have fallen and govt has given the go ahead to sell them to the general public.

As for parking, it depends on the particular development. I have an allocated parking space.


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## Kine (2 Apr 2009)

Cheeus said:


> I think Belarmine represents the best value you can get on the southside at the moment. As for the neighbourhood - it is a mix of people from the very wealthy, to young professionals/young families, to those in rented private or council owned properties. Take a walk through the ..................As for parking, it depends on the particular development. I have an allocated parking space.


 
I will second this opinion. I live in Aikens Village (neighbouring development) and have not had much of a problem in the area. I will say two things though:

1) From the last AGM/meeting for the maangement company, we were advised to not leave anything valuable in our cars as there had been a few brea-ins (however, you should _never_ leave anything valuable in your car!!!)

2) Shops in the area aer poor. Belarmine is meant to get a nice supermarket in June, so hopefully it isn't a rip-off SPAR etc. One other thing here, a Bookies is meant to be going in, and I'm not too big a fan of this, as it will be directly opposite the social housing and may have some people hanging around outside (this is not meant as a snobish remark...just what I have seen from other bookies in the area).

I may be incorrect with the above, if so I'm sure someone else will correct me!


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## Cheeus (2 Apr 2009)

I think the shops are grand. Dundrum shopping centre is 5 minutes away by car. Two convenience stores and two butchers are within 5 minutes walk in the village and at lambs cross. I wouldn't want to be any nearer to a major shopping centre. The shop going in to Belarmine Plaza is an upmarket grocery store like Donnybrook Fair - obviously they think the area is pretty plush!? Ha, ha, don't they know we're all being bit hit by the recession?

As for the social housing comments re bookies... I do think that might cause offence! The people that have been given social housing there are generally single mothers from the area - normal people. They haven't been given to random people that couldn't be housed. 

There is a bookies in Dundrum and I don't see people hanging around outside it? I agree though, don't like bookies and would rather they weren't there. I think the bookies just opened in the village. I was told the only thing confirmed for the plaza was the grocery store so far.


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## Kine (2 Apr 2009)

I have heard the original planning has had to be changed, they were looking to put in a chipper or something similar but I'm under the impression that this has been changed. 

On a side note, have you been to the shops in Sandyford Hall much in the evenings/nights? Pain in the ass, always a lot of kids knocking around being ageneral nuisance, I'm just hoping this isn't the case for our shops. Darned kids!


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## firsttimebuy (3 Apr 2009)

Just wondering does anybody know about the general finish of the apartments and the sound proofing. I know some apartments have paper thin walls and would hate to end up buying somewhere like that. Also is there somewhere you can view a full list of the shops going into Belarmine Plaza. I know a few have been mentioned already on the post.


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## Kine (3 Apr 2009)

I doubt they have a full list of shops yet, as they most likely haven't sold all the space.

Haven't heard anything about Belarmine having poor sound proofing, I know my apartment in Aikens Vilalge has tremendous sound proofing (which helps heating!) as I never hear a thing. Either that, or I'm the annoying loud neighbour that everyone else hears!


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## April4 (3 Apr 2009)

Thank you all for your replies especially Cheeus (you sure you don't work for Castlethorn - you sell the place very well) I feel much happier now about my decision and fingers crossed things work out.


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## Cheeus (3 Apr 2009)

April4 said:


> Thank you all for your replies especially Cheeus (you sure you don't work for Castlethorn - you sell the place very well) I feel much happier now about my decision and fingers crossed things work out.


 
Oh I'm sorry, don't want to mislead you...
I bought in the belarmine area but bought in the beflry which is a flemmings development. That's why I didn't comment on the building, just the area!


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## firsttimebuy (7 Apr 2009)

Looking at the apartments what is putting me off is the fact they are above shops. You would have some many people and traffic coming and going not to talk of people just hanging around outside the shops, its not for me.


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## tekc (28 Jul 2009)

Hi all, 
I see that these posts are quite old but am just wondering if any of the posters actually went ahead and bought at Belarmine plaza and if so how did they get on. I saw an apartment there recently and am very interested in it but would like to get some feedback from people who live/bought there before I make any decisions. Thanks!


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