# Prospective new tenant Commecial lease rates arrears. Can a solicitor help negotiate?



## Kerrigan (1 Nov 2011)

Another commercial rates thread but one question I have not seen answered here.

My son is looking into taking out a commercial lease.  The unit has commercial rates arrears.  

Obviously he will not take out the lease with these arrears outstanding.

My question is; does your Solicitor make an arrangement with the Council to erase the past arrears from a previous tenant so as a new tenant can move in without the previous debts of the past business?


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## mf1 (1 Nov 2011)

"does your Solicitor make an arrangement with the Council to erase the past arrears from a previous tenant so as a new tenant can move in without the previous debts of the past business? "

No. 

Either the previous tenant pays the arrears or the landlord pays the arrears. Other than that, unless the Council offers a formal letter confirming  that the arrears have been written off or no longer attach to the premises, to a new tenant, no new tenant will take on the property. They should look elsewhere. 

Rates arrears is a very significant issue and should not be ignored by any prospective new tenant. 

mf


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## ajapale (1 Nov 2011)

Moved from  Askaboutlaw to  Property investment and tenants' rights.

AAL is for legal questions not covered elsewhere on AAM.


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## oldnick (1 Nov 2011)

Unless the landlord can make a convincing case to the council to write off this debt  he should immediately pay the back-rates otherwise he will never ever rent it out.... unless, of course, it is a good site at a low rent -and the back rates aren't too much....

...So it would help to know how big a sum you are talking about ,especially in relation to the rent.

Slightly off-topic....
 I've never understood why a landlord doesn't pay the rates just to make sure that there is no back-log. I let a shop and included in the rent are the rates. This way i know that when the tenant leaves the rates are up-to-date. The agreement allows for flucuations in rates/tax.


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## Kerrigan (1 Nov 2011)

Thanks guys for your responses.  

The rent they are seeking is 32,000.00 per annum.  
The commercial rates arrears is 9,000.00.

From what I hear the landord is handing the building over to nama so the LL will not be paying the arrears.

It is amazing how a propery can be put on the market without the arrears cleared.


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## onq (1 Nov 2011)

(nods)

This caught out one AAM poster earlier this year: 

LA chasing me for rates arrears (commercial lease) not paid by a previous tenant.

Its a real trap for the unwary.


ONQ.


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## Ireland.1 (5 Nov 2011)

Hi, I am the OP of the thread Onq mentions.

Just to clarify a couple of things.  

Kerrigan avoid at all costs going into a property were there is outstanding rates.

My life was made a misery because of my lack of knowledge in this area which lead me into a premises with uncleared rates.  The council were insistant that I became liable for these rates, that were racked up a previous business.  My health began to suffer and I had to close down my business.

Subsequently after the fact I had been told by another council offical that my decision was drastic and their threats were idle and would not have amounted to anything

To be on the safe side I would keep well clear.


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## onq (5 Nov 2011)

That is absolutely terrible Ireland1!
I am SO sorry to hear how this turned out for you.
That should be trumpeted on the national carrier and the media.
At least that way the unwary would be warned off such "poisoned pill" properties.


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## ajapale (5 Nov 2011)

Please keep this thread to discuss the technical issues around: Commercial lease rates arrears. Can a solicitor help negotiate? 
Thanks
aj
moderator



onq said:


> At least that way the unwary would be warned off such "poisoned pill" properties.



Ong,
Is it common for tenants to enter into commercial lease arrangements without engaging the relevant competent professional (eg solicitor)?
aj


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## Kerrigan (5 Nov 2011)

Could you please clarify if the estate agent would be made aware of such "poisoned pill" properties or would he/she be looking for a tenent who they could pull the wool over their eyes.  Surely the Landlord would have informed the estate agent??

In the case of my son the EA has insisted they knew nothing but me being a skeptic I'm not convienced.


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## oldnick (6 Nov 2011)

It's not really up to an auctioneer to look into the title on a property, the liens on a property, the strucutural defects of a property, or the back-rates owing on a property and so on and so on.
That's the job of solicitors (and surveyors for the physical aspects). 

Mind you , finding out about back rates is the easiest job in the world - a quick phone or visit to the Rates Office. Evidently your son , or someone on his behalf ,did this so he knows about the  back rates and has signed no lease.
 So, he's fine.


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## ajapale (6 Nov 2011)

ajapale said:


> Is it common for tenants to enter into commercial lease arrangements without engaging the relevant competent professional (eg solicitor)?



I assume the EA/Auctioneer is acting for the lessor.

Why would the lessee not engage a competent relevant professional to thoroughly go through all aspects of the lease including the issue of outstanding rates?


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Nov 2011)

ajapale said:


> Why would the lessee not engage a competent relevant professional to thoroughly go through all aspects of the lease including the issue of outstanding rates?



Hi AJ

I only learned about the new tenant's responsibility for the rates arrears here on askboutmoney.

I took on short-term office  leases in the past without checking anything. I was lucky in that arrears were not an issue.

It is a much bigger issue now as I would imagine that many tenants, especially retailers, are in arrears. And many landlords don't have the money to discharge them. 

Brendan


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## Ireland.1 (7 Nov 2011)

As was mentioned an estate agent is not proxy to this information but the management company maybe.

9k is a large sum.  I can't see the Council writing that off.

A lot of Solicitors still don't bother checking rates but leave it to you to do the searching.


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