# Joint Accounts and Probate



## porterbray (19 Aug 2013)

My mother died recently and left almost everything to my father. Most of their bank accounts were in joint names which my father then put into his own name. 

His solicitor is carrying out the probate on his behalf, and has told him that the joint accounts need to be included and the money in them frozen until probate is finalised. If this is true, this could leave my father almost penniless until the probate is finalised in 9 or so months.

Can my father access these accounts in the meantime (I was under the impression that joint assets do not form part of the deceased's estate). There is a considerable amount (€500k) in three accounts.

Thanks for any advice


----------



## mf1 (19 Aug 2013)

Probate is not always necessary. If most of the assets were in joint names, they would pass automatically to your father. 

Perhaps there is something unusual about your mother's estate in that your father was not a joint owner of assets/bank accounts but only, for example, a joint signatory which would change the norm. 

Go back to the solicitor and query if there is a need for Probate at all. 

mf


----------



## WizardDr (20 Aug 2013)

@mf1 was there some issue about joint accounts and source of funds?


----------



## The Ghoul (20 Aug 2013)

A relative (surviving spouse) is going through something similar, joint bank accounts have been transferred to them and are being accessed. Probate has not been started yet and a solicitor has not been consulted. 

The bank official who dealt with the transfer stated that there was no issue with the surviving spouse accessing the former joint, now sole account immediately. Cheques are being written and cashed.

Obviously "the bank official said it was ok" doesn't constitute legal advice and I hope that nothing wrong has happened here.


----------



## mf1 (20 Aug 2013)

WizardDr said:


> @mf1 was there some issue about joint accounts and source of funds?



It would not generally apply in a married couple situation where there is a presumption that joint accounts are for the benefit of both. 

There may be a situation where a sole account is put into joint names for ( for example) ease of access to funds e.g. an elderly person and a child or friend. Where the intention was not to benefit the other account holder but simply make it easy to access funds, the presumption may not apply. It may, however, lead to all sorts of fun and games as the rest of the family watch the funds being squandered recklessly!

People are capable of appalling behaviour when money is involved. 

mf


----------



## robbie00 (20 Aug 2013)

The probate office are great, give them a call and they will send you all the paperwork. It looks like it will be fairly straightforward and you could do this application yourself as its not difficult.


----------



## porterbray (21 Aug 2013)

Thanks all for your replies, joint accounts issue sorted so my father can access them, but probate still necessary due to a credit union account.


----------



## WizardDr (25 Aug 2013)

@porterbray - there is a provision in the Credit Union Act 1997 -S21 where a Member can nominate up to €23,000 to another and not be in Will. 

Did any nomination occur?


----------



## eggerb (26 Aug 2013)

WizardDr said:


> @porterbray - there is a provision in the Credit Union Act 1997 -S21 where a Member can nominate up to €23,000 to another and not be in Will.
> 
> Did any nomination occur?



@WizardDr ... is this subject to normal inheritance tax/counted as part of the threshold?


----------



## porterbray (26 Aug 2013)

Thanks @WizardDr, yes, the Credit Union were able to pay out €23k, but the remainder of the credit union account is more than the €25k limit


----------



## WizardDr (26 Aug 2013)

@eggerb though S21 allows for a 'nomination' to a family member (s6) .. this does not mean that there is any exemption from CAT. So it would count from a threshold point of view. It simply means that €23k can be paid to X (a family member) without the inheritance process. That said, X would be in receipt of an inheritance of €23k and even if there was no tax payable, I think X would have to return it for CAT purposes.


----------



## WizardDr (26 Aug 2013)

@porterbay I assume that S23 (small payments <€15k) cannot apply if the there has been a payment on nomination.


----------

