# Childminders are now Chargeable Persons



## DB74 (6 Mar 2014)

Revenue e-brief No 18/14 released yesterday has some fairly significant implications for anyone who avails of the €15K childcare services relief. People who avail of this relief are now regarded as chargeable persons for self-assessment purposes. This means having to register for income tax, submit a Form 11 every year and be subject to issues such as preliminary tax etc.

Personally I'm in two minds about this. More accountability = more red tape.

[broken link removed]


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## WizardDr (6 Mar 2014)

@DB74 maybe so - however in the US all citizens apparently are required to file a tax return.

Here - as you correctly point out its a chargeable person - and that is a small number.

[ As an aside - how Revenue then extended 4% PRSI to 'other income' that is clearly not filed but the huge number of people (all taxpayers) who do not file a return is beyond me.]

I suppose the logic is that the relief is substantial so in order to get relief you would have to file a return. I don't see anything sinister here.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Mar 2014)

I don't t hink that they have PAYE in America though?  It's all self assessment.


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## Setanta12 (6 Mar 2014)

I think the Brief is just explaining the law as it has stood for a number of years already. Nothing new here. (I stand to be corrected however)


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## SarahMc (6 Mar 2014)

DB74 said:


> Revenue e-brief No 18/14 released yesterday has some fairly significant implications for anyone who avails of the €15K childcare services relief. People who avail of this relief are now regarded as chargeable persons for self-assessment purposes.[broken link removed]


 
 This was the case from the introduction of the relief.


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## DB74 (8 Mar 2014)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...thers-complete-26-page-tax-return-624564.html

"... but it is understood that they will now be obliged to fill in a 26-page tax return form for the first time"


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## Time (8 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I don't t hink that they have PAYE in America though?  It's all self assessment.



It is a hybrid of both. 

You can have your tax withheld by your employer using a number of standard deductions. Single people would tick 1 on the form, married 2 etc.

At the end of the tax year the employer gives the employee a document similar to a P60 here, from which the person files their tax return.


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## SarahMc (8 Mar 2014)

DB74 said:


> http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...thers-complete-26-page-tax-return-624564.html
> 
> "... but it is understood that they will now be obliged to fill in a 26-page tax return form for the first time"



Bringing it into line with the rent a room scheme. The manufactured outrage out there is nauseating. If you want a regulated childcare system, someone has to grapple with the fact in Ireland the vast majority of children are minded in uninspected, unregulated, uninsured, unvetted environments. We are probably the last country in the western world that has such loose regulation on family day care.


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## Guinea pig (9 Mar 2014)

I think the outage will come from the grandparents who will have to full out the form for minding their grand kids for a weekly payment.

Next sole trader status for babysitters?

I do agree with returns for those costuming the 15k exception, its just too much money changing hands to be disregarded.


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## Sandals (9 Mar 2014)

The big change is that every single childminder must now register with their county or city chilminding commitee if they mind any child not their own, whether they are related to the child or not. Until now one only had to register with hse if minding more than three, four if siblings. Most stayed under this and many did voltunary register for the training and support. This story will certainly cause outrage as its only breaking news yet.


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## DB74 (10 Mar 2014)

Guinea pig said:


> I think the outage will come from the grandparents who will have to full out the form for minding their grand kids for a weekly payment.



Absolutely. Grandparents who are minding only their own grandchildren should be exempt from this requirement IMO


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## T McGibney (10 Mar 2014)

Guinea pig said:


> I do agree with returns for those costuming the 15k exception, its just too much money changing hands to be disregarded.





SarahMc said:


> Bringing it into line with the rent a room scheme.



I stand open to correction but I can't recall Revenue ever issuing an eBrief warning those availing of the rent a room scheme that they must file a Form 11 return or else lose their rent a room exemption



SarahMc said:


> If you want a  regulated childcare system, someone has to grapple with the fact in  Ireland the vast majority of children are minded in uninspected,  unregulated, uninsured, unvetted environments. We are probably the last  country in the western world that has such loose regulation on family  day care.



The Irish childcare system is in crisis because it is over-regulated, to the point that informal childcare arrangements in the carer's home have been all but outlawed. 

The State presumes parents are incapable of making their own decisions in relation to childcare and insists that they rely solely on an unaffordable regulation model that has also proven spectacularly ineffective in rooting out abusive and neglectful practices in institutional settings that give child "care" a bad name.


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## DB74 (10 Mar 2014)

IMO the e-brief is more to do with stopping people who are on the dole/sick from also minding children and availing of the tax-exempt status at the same time as opposed to trying to regulate the childcare sector.

You'll still get people doing both but some may stop and the chargeable person status now means that there is an effective method to punish those who are caught. Previously it would have been the acceptance of social welfare while working was the "crime" but now the non-submission of returns etc carries more punitive punishments.


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## Time (10 Mar 2014)

So are all 10 year old schoolchildren who do a bit of childminding for pocket money going to have to register?


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## DB74 (10 Mar 2014)

Time said:


> So are all 10 year old schoolchildren who do a bit of childminding for pocket money going to have to register?



Well it doesn't say they are exempt so ...


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## AlbacoreA (10 Mar 2014)

DB74 said:


> IMO the e-brief is more to do with stopping people who are on the dole/sick from also minding children and availing of the tax-exempt status at the same time as opposed to trying to regulate the childcare sector.
> 
> You'll still get people doing both but some may stop and the chargeable person status now means that there is an effective method to punish those who are caught. Previously it would have been the acceptance of social welfare while working was the "crime" but now the non-submission of returns etc carries more punitive punishments.



I would agree that this is got very little to to do with regulation. Especially considering the abysmal history of the govt (and past govts) with regard to a regulation in a number of area's/industries./ Its simply to widen the tax take. Backdating fines, and perhaps introducing charge for a cert of some sort. I wonder will the cost incurred exceed the take from it.  There should be a warning when starting a family and owning a home. You're a sitting duck for every tax.


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