# Private schools in Dublin



## Gaules

I have a 4,5 year old kid that joined the Infant Julior class back in Sept. The schools seemed good, but the 31 kids in the class and only teachers monitoring the place do not really look like the ideal school you want to have your kid on.

Anywway, as the months went by and the kid is quite happy to be there and socialize with his friends, I realized that the work done in school is quite poor, mainly due to the big size class (can you imagine tobe ina  class daily with 31 kids of 4 & 5 years old??!), and we are considering a private school.

Private schools do not seem to be very popular in Ireland, and my questions in more about:


which ones are available (not unisex please!)
if they have a day long curriculum, or just 4/5 hours a day
what age is the best to get kids in
are they really good? is it worth to get kids into?
roughly price
thanks for any tips!


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## DrMoriarty

I was going to point you towards the Dept. of Education website ( http://www.education.ie ) but this is what's showing there at the moment...! 


> Internal Server Error
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@education.gov.ie and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. More information about this error may be available in the server error log.


 _[Edit: It seems to be fixed now...]_

Whereabouts are you living?


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## TarfHead

You might check out the [broken link removed] programme.

_[Edited by DrMoriarty to include link]_


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## ClubMan

Gaules said:
			
		

> Private schools do not seem to be very popular in Ireland


 Actually this is incorrect and the vast majority of national primary schools are indeed private in that they are privately owned (usually by religious institutions) even if they are largely state funded. See :


> *Ownership of primary schools*
> 
> *Information*
> 
> The vast majority of primary schools in Ireland are privately owned           and supported by the different churches. The state pays the bulk of the           building and running costs and a local contribution is made towards the running           costs.
> 
> National schools are privately owned - in general by the relevant           church authorities. In the case of Catholic schools, the owners are usually the           diocesan trustees; the same is true for Church of Ireland schools. Other           denominational schools usually have a board of trustees nominated by the church           authorities. Multi-denominational schools are usually owned by a limited           company or board of trustees.
> 
> Gaelscoileanna may be denominational and come under the same           patronage as Catholic schools but some have their own limited company.


 Perhaps you mean some other form of private (fee paying?) school or something?


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## Gaules

*DrMoriarty* - we do live in Castleknock - this seems to be quite relevant when to chose the correct school, since as I understand it, in Ireland private schools do not offer transportation...

I also checked previously the site you recommended: http://www.education.ie/ but there are over 300 schools under the private term!! ..

I just want to know the top 10 ones (not unisex!) that accept 4 / 5 years old kids, and in the D15 area...

Thanks *TarfHead*, but this as *Clubman* mentions doe s not seem to fir the bill..


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## Gaules

Perhaps you mean some other form of private (fee paying?) school or something?
thats exactly it Clubman!


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## ClubMan

_Educate Together_ schools are not fee paying either as far as I know. Are you sure that paying a fee will necessarily guarantee better teaching/education for your child?


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## Gaules

Clubman, I am not definitely sure about that...what I am sure is that 31 five year old in a class, must not be much productive.

Also there are no extra activities like sports, so I was wondering more about a 1 stop shop for education and after school formation (sports, activities).

I pay at the moment 95 euros for the after school care wich is little bit more than useless RE sprots and activities (pick up from the school and home care).

Do you have any thoughts to help with this dilema, i.e. best education (school and formation) for your kids?


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## ClubMan

Gaules said:
			
		

> Do you have any thoughts to help with this dilema, i.e. best education (school and formation) for your kids?


Unfortunately not but I better learn before 2010!  At the moment our plan is to try for the local _Educate Together _school and his name is down because our preference is for a school that is not owned/controlled by a religious institution. We expect to play an active role in our child's education ourselves and not expect the school alone to deal with this. Easy to say now - I'll let you know how it went in a couple of decades!


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## Janet

I went to a fee-paying school up to secondary level (stayed in same school but secondary wasn't fee-paying) - the primary school I went to is gone now and has become a very expensive estate of apartments, townhouses and duplex units.  It was run by the Presentation order of nuns.

Perhaps it was just in the case of my school but looking back I certainly think that we were at quite a disadvantage.  Despite the fees, there was very little money in the school and very few supplies for things like art classes, sports etc.  There were no after-school activities - I'd say that would be quite unusual for a primary school but don't have kids so can't say I've looked into it.  We did have elocution, singing and Irish dancing lessons a couple of years in a row but these were provided by parents - not sure if they were paid or not.

As far as I know the day to day running of a fee-paying school (which I also always just called private, never knew most schools are actually privately owned) would not differ from the day to day running of a non-fee-paying school.  I think we used to have longer holidays though, usually three and a half months in summer.


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## DrMoriarty

Judging from what I see/hear of the few fee-paying primary schools near us, I suspect that the motivation of some parents who send their kids there has more to do with (a) simple snobbery — the assurance that the 'wrong sort' of people won't be able to afford to send their kids there, at €1,500/€2,000 per term, or (b) because — for the same reason — the class sizes tend to be far smaller.

The same principle may partly explain the current boom in popularity of the _gaelscoileanna_ sector (all-Irish schools, Gaules — mais je suppose que ce n'est pas une option?). I hasten to add that there are plenty more parents who choose _gaelscoileanna_ for perfectly legitimate reasons having to do with genuine pride in/love of the _Teanga_!

Small class sizes are certainly a Good Thing — and yes, 31 is verging on the ridiculous! — but it's far from being the only/most important factor. I can't help with whittling down the list of 300+ you mentioned, but if you do manage to arrive at a shortlist, you should try to visit the likeliest contenders and maybe chat to other approachable parents, before approaching the Principal directly? Or ask friends and neighbours how they find their kids' schools?


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## ClubMan

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> The same principle may partly explain the current boom in popularity of the _gaelscoileanna_ sector (all-Irish schools, Gaule — mais je suppose que ce n'est pas une option?). I hasten to add that there are plenty more parents who choose _gaelscoileanna_ for perfectly legitimate reasons having to do with genuine pride in/love of the _Teanga_!


When was snobbery outlawed in _Ireland_?  


> Small class sizes are certainly a Good Thing — and yes, 31 is verging on the ridiculous!


That's what it was in my day and it didn't do us any harm...


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## Past30Now

Hi

Mount Sackville in Castleknock/Chapelizod used to run a primary school and probably still does - its a fee paying school - supposed to have good sports facilities - only caters for one half of the population (girls).  I only know one guy who sent his daughters there and he couldn't speak highly enough of the place.  

When I went to school at the time (only fifteen years ago since I left!!!)  a large portion of the girls who went there left after fifth year and went to the Institute in Leeson Street for the LC, but that was probably just an unsubstantiated rumour caused by jealous kids who were sent to non fee paying schools.

Past30


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## Gaules

Thanks DrMoriarty! - any tips on the ones in comutable distance from Castleknock? and you are correct the Gaule ones are not really an option! 

what about Internaitonal schools?

Also 1.5 / 2 k per term is off course a cost, but adding small class type + extra class activities +  not needing to pay the useless after school care sounds still quite attractive!


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## DrMoriarty

I'm afraid I don't know the Castleknock area at all, Gaules..!

Have you been living there long? Are you in an estate with lots of families? It might be a good way to get to know the neighbours — most people would be flattered if a 'pauvre étranger' approached them for advice on the local schools...

_[P.S. Especially after we win the France/Ireland match this weekend...! ]_


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## Ham Slicer

Past30Now said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> Mount Sackville in Castleknock/Chapelizod



I'm not sure if they do primary education, but an acquaintance of mine is sending his 12 year old daughter there next year.

My first reaction was snobbery, but he reckons that the local school is full of immigrants and that the language barriers are slowing down lessons.


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## Janet

For what it's worth my parents chose to send me to fee-paying school after the local Ursuline school which my three older sisters were attending suddenly became a "comp" (shock, horror all round, there was a new lay principal and I think he was a bit of a hippy!) - the main reason against it being that it was going to become co-ed.  The junior school closed down a few years later anyway and only the secondary is still open.


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## ClubMan

My niece went there and her brothers went to the local _CBS _and the local community school respectively and I can't see any great difference between them in terms of their education and school upbringing from those years. They all went to third level for what that's worth...


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## Gaules

your heklp and comments has been fantastic, but I still do not have the core of my questions answered....would someone help please?

which ones are available (not unisex please!) 
if they have a day long curriculum, or just 4/5 hours a day 
what age is the best to get kids in 
are they really good? is it worth to get kids into? 
roughly price


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## ClubMan

Actually - I'm just wondering - are there, in fact, any private fee paying *primary*, as opposed to secondary, schools at all?

On the general issue of registering for primary schools I think the earlier the better and many people actually register their kids for their preferred school(s) immediately after birth!


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## ophelia

I know its on the Southside but St. Kiliians German School, Roebuck Rd., Clonskeagh can take your child right through their education, from Kindergarten, Primary and Secondary. It's a private fee paying school (but fees are not too steep). My children have and are attending there and I am very happy with the system. Very friendly school, with children getting involved in lots of after school activities, some we pay for, some are free. My daughter for instance, does Hockey and Art/Craft through French with a native French speaker as her after school activities, but there are plenty of others to choose from. She is still in primary but she is already been exposed to the French language. The school has merged with the French School so there is good opportunity for that. She also does some subjects through German. She has a good level of German which will be a great help when she starts Secondary. My sons completed their education there and last year the average points in the Leaving Cert was about 447. For anyone on the South side it is a good choice. They are multi-denominational, and open to both sexes.
They also have an after school care service.


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## Janet

Gaules said:
			
		

> which ones are available (not unisex please!)
> if they have a day long curriculum, or just 4/5 hours a day



I'd only know schools around the south county Dublin area so can't help on the first question above.  

The second question is one I answered above, sorry if it wasn't clear.  I believe the school day is the same as in a non-fee paying school - not sure what exactly that is at the moment, when I went to school in the 80's it was 9.30 till about 1 until 1st class (age 6/7) and then it was 9 till 3.


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## brokeparent

Have you considered going to the other end of the spectrum. Some of the schools serving the disadvantaged in our country have classes of only 20 from junior infants up to second. They offer a the full broad primary school curriculum and ASFAIK many of them are now getting involved in after school supports.  DES Social Inclusion personnel they will say that the schools working in these areas are way ahead of the rest in terms of teacher committment, openness and willingness to change. They certainly seem to be capable of capable of meeting all your educational aims and I am sure some of them are situated within reach of Castleknock


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## ragazza

Salut Gaules,

_1. which ones are available (not unisex please!)_ 
Castleknock College is a private boys school in D15. I'm not sure if they have primary aswell though. But you could ring them to find out, and if they dont have a primary, ask which schools generally "feed" into it.


_2. are they really good? is it worth to get kids into? _
I went to both private and non-private schools, and in my opinion, it's worth going private. 
In my public primary school, there were 45 people in my class, and 17 in my private secondary. Much more individual attention, both to stretch the brighter ones and to help any struggling kids. We also seemed to have more after-school opportunities, like horse-riding/ skiing/ music etc which my friends in public schools didnt have. The expectation was that you would go on to third level.

Best of luck.


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## ClubMan

Anybody know for sure whether or not there actually are any private fee-paying primary schools in Ireland? Part of the original query may be moot if there are not.


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## gauloise

The closest primary schools that are private are the Steiner School in Rathgar and the Lycée Français in Foxrock, after this you are looking at the Headfort in Kells or Bray as your next nearest options. If you are worried about class size as I was why not try some of the more rural schools in your area or perhaps Church of Ireland as these do not seem to have the large classes you talk about. My children are in a school not too far from the meath/dublin border where there are in average 12-15 pupils per class. Their catchment area extends to Clonislla so with a D15 poscode you could qualify. Alas all these schools are unisex! Mount Sackville no longer run a primary school just the private girls secondary school.


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## Sherman

> The expectation was that you would go on to third level.


 
This is far, far more a function of family background - respect for education, ambition, parental involvement and interest in their children.

Believe me, I've seen both sides, and have met fiercely ambitious, bright, yet extremely disadvantaged kids who went to 'working class' schools and go on to be hugely successful, both educationally and financially. Equally, I could rattle off a long, long list of absolute wasters who went through our 'best' private schools...


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## ClubMan

gauloise said:
			
		

> The closest primary schools that are private


As I said before the vast majority of primary schools are private(ly owned). If you mean private *and fee-paying *you might want to make that clear.


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## gauloise

My apologies Club Man, the closest *fee paying* schools are the Steiner School in Rathgar and the Lycée Français in Foxrock, followed by Headfort in Kells.


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## Janet

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Anybody know for sure whether or not there actually are any private fee-paying primary schools in Ireland? Part of the original query may be moot if there are not.



St Killian's/Lycee Francais as mentioned above
St Joseph of Cluny, Killiney
CBC Monkstown
Willow Park (junior part of Blackrock College)

They're definitely out there.

Maybe if Gaules could specify whether it's a boy's or girl's school they're looking for people would be able to offer more accurate suggestions.  

Gaules do you have your heart set on a single sex school?  I have a hazy recollection of studies showing that girls do better in single sex schools but that the reason mooted for this was because they don't want to appear more clever than boys.  If this is the case then I'd say it's likely this doesn't happen as much in primary as it might in secondary schools and so perhaps unisex primary school is a better idea.  I went to an all girls' school and from a social point of view feel mixed schools are better - I had very few male friends or acquaintances all through school (friends' brothers and lads working for my dad were about it) and was quite intimidated when I started college.

Finally, have you also tried posting your question on rollercoaster.ie ?  That's supposed to be a great source of information for parenting type questions.


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## ClubMan

OK - thanks _Janet_. Just wanted to make sure that this wasn't a wild goose chase


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## Sherman

> the reason mooted for this was because they don't want to appear more clever than boys


 
They definitely grow out of that one quickly!!


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## casiopea

St Joseph of Cluny, Killiney primary school is closing down, not the secondary school though.


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## Kiddo

> Anybody know for sure whether or not there actually are any private fee-paying primary schools in Ireland? Part of the original query may be moot if there are not


 

Terenure College has a junior school from the age of 8.


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## gauloise

This link will give the contact details for those I mentioned above along with a few other fee paying schools. But around D15 there aren't any I'm afraid!
http://www.educationireland.ie/htm/education/main.htm


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## Shakespeare

For what it's worth, I went to a fee-paying private kindargarten, primary and post-primary school on the South side of Dublin and both from my own experience and from hearing my parents views in hindsight, I would be in favour of possibly non-fee paying primary but private(fee-paying) secondary school.
In general, the children who joined the secondary school from the local national school (which in fairness has a very good repn anyway) were academically more advanced than those of us in the private primary. The fact that I was personally not particularly disadvantaged in this regard is entirely to the credit of my education-obsessed (in a good way in hindsight -if not appreciated at the time ;o) )parents.
I do believe that there was a good strong expectation of 3rd level as the norm in the secondary school and while I accept that there are all levels of ambition, expectation etc in all schools and it may be non-PC to say so, but for my children, perceived snobbery or not, I have found that people still make judgements well into my career on where I lived,went to school, college, firm joined etc etc and on this basis I would be hoping to be able to send my children to private, fee-paying post-primary schools.
Re-iterating the first post, now that I've moved "over there!!!" (not my words but what was said to me by someone else) to D15 (can only afford a shoebox in old home location) I would be very interested to hear about good schools in the area. Are Castleknock College and Mt Sackville the only 2 private schools in the area.?


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## gauloise

If you are prepared to travel via Lucan perhaps via the strawberry beds etc.. there is the Kings Hospital which is fee paying and mixed.


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## Sherman

> I have found that people still make judgements well into my career on where I lived,went to school, college, firm joined etc etc and on this basis I would be hoping to be able to send my children to private, fee-paying post-primary schools.


 
You seem to be making the assumption that these judgements are positive...


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## ClubMan

Shakespeare said:
			
		

> I have found that people still make judgements well into my career on where I lived,went to school, college, firm joined etc etc and on this basis I would be hoping to be able to send my children to private, fee-paying post-primary schools.


 Have to say that I have never experienced this myself. Well - obviously employers made decisions based on previous experience and education - but neither they nor anybody else that I have ever met has ever obviously been influenced (negatively or positively) by where I grew up, went to school etc. If they had I would have given them short shrift. With the exception of employers assessing candidates based on their education and work records/experiences, anybody who can't take another person as they come at face value and prejudges them (positively or negatively) purely on where they grew up or went to school etc. is obviously an idiot.


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## Janet

Found this post while searching for something else, may be of interest to you:

Private school fees: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=8457


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## Shakespeare

"anybody who can't take another person as they come at face value and prejudges them (positively or negatively) purely on where they grew up or went to school etc. is obviously an idiot."

I don't disagree with your point but  agreeing or disagreeing is not entirely relevant. I'm merely recounting experience. And yes, as previously mentioned I can't assume it was positive because there's as much stupid prejudice going both ways but to reiterate, I'm merely stating personal experience and I think it would be naive to pretend that people do not make such judgements. 
I see I represented my experience as being a basis for my wish to seek a private school which in hindsight was not the link I was actually trying to make and badly explained on my part but was trying to cut down on the rambling of what I was trying to say. 
I do believe that along with parental interest and encouragement towards 3rd level etc,  peer pressure and expectations picked up in your environment can help and the kind of inclusion and assistance you can get in private schools where classes tend to be smaller etc shouldn't be ignored (The entire leaving certificate year in the school I attended totalled 62) - 3 classes.


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## Henny Penny

Is this of any use to you? [broken link removed]

I would presume most primary schools only do a 5/5.5 hour day. I think the exception to the rule would be John Scotus school in Donnybrook which has a much longer day. 

Good luck with your choice. I firmly believe the nearest school to your house is the best school for your child.


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## Gordanus

Henny Penny said:
			
		

> Good luck with your choice. I firmly believe the nearest school to your house is the best school for your child.



I'd strongly agree with Henny Penny.  At Junior Infants level, it's all about socialisation rather than formal education.  The kids get to know children in the neighbourhood and will go on to visit each other at weekends, after school, for parties.  Send them to a more specialised school (eg Lycee) or a school further away and you'll spend all your time ferrying them around.  At least if the other kids live nearby the parents can take it in turns!
Also, the classes tend to reduce after Junior Infants. Some kids repeat, others move away.


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## Thirsty

Kings Hospital is a Secondary School and does not have a primary school attached.


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## cibby

Gaules said:
			
		

> your heklp and comments has been fantastic, but I still do not have the core of my questions answered....would someone help please?
> 
> which ones are available (not unisex please!)
> if they have a day long curriculum, or just 4/5 hours a day
> what age is the best to get kids in
> are they really good? is it worth to get kids into?
> roughly price


 
Hi Gaules
I live in Castleknock; sent my kids to Gaelscoil in Blanchardstown, as we both love Irish and above all wanted our kids NOT to have any hang ups about their native language and culture, which worked well for us. Both are fluent, and it has been useful to them. We had absolutely no regrets about it-but sent them to English-speaking second level school. All the schools in the Castleknock area are 'national'-either Catholic or Protestant primary schools, or Educate Together, which is described above. Due to population explosion in the area, most schools have 30 in a class, and due to pupil-teacher ratio- this often means MORE than 30, as in your case. Apart from curricular activities, things that happen outside of class hours have to be paid for, and this is everywhere -not jsut in castleknock. There is never enough state grant(money), so most parents get involved at some stage in fund-raising for the school. Most parents pay for extra-curriculatr activities-eg dancing, musical instrument, karate etc-- and many enterprising individuals rent out the local halls to hold these classes, usually after school hours and on Sats. It is not unusual to find kids with two or three after-school activities they are enrolled in, paid by parents. 
All primary schools in Castleknock take both boys and girls mixed, and apart from the little kiddies, who finish an hour earlier than the rest, the school  usually goes from 9-3pm or so. The schools in Castleknock are actually considered to be excellent and give a great service in this community, so I wonder if you are expecting too much of your child at aged 4/5? or of the school? or of the teacher? or are you just sympathetic with him/her for having 31 kids all day? Only schools designated as 'disadvantaged' --which are usually in disadvantaged areas, get a better pupil-teacher ratio and some have 20 in class--but as my niece teaches in one such, I hear her describe kids with real educational needs, having home probs etc, so they NEED this ratio. What to you, may seem like noise and bedlam could well be great creative work in a class of 31  kids aged 4/5!!!!!
There are no fee-paying private primary schools in Castleknock. sound like your kid is happy and is socialising well, that surely is GREAT!


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## extopia

The last thing I would want to expose my children to would be an environment exclusive to those who can afford to pay high fees, whether through misplaced suspicion in public schooling, simple snobbery or fear.

The majority of kids in our local primary school are from disadvantaged backgrounds. My kids went there and absolutely thrived. We had checked out the school and liked the classrooms, the headmistress and the teachers.   We knew our kids were going to be OK academically because they'd started school elsewhere and had done well.

They loved this school (to which they could walk, only a few minutes away) and have since gone on to secondary school (also within walking distance, more diverse in that there are more middle class kids) and are thriving there.

At no stage did we consider private schools as there was simply no reason to pay the fee given the quality of public schools in our area. And we wanted to support our community by attending the schools.


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## angelique

Hi,

Where I can find list of private schools in Ireland? I am looking for private school in county Dublin, Wicklow or Kildare.


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## Thirsty

All fee-paying and non-fee paying schools (the term 'private' is something of a misnomer) are listed on the Dept of Ed website (www.education.ie) .  A more user friendly list is available on www.schooldays.ie


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## angelique

They are all together, how can I know which one is fee-paying ? And which one is primary ...


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## Thirsty

Crumbs! I thought it was very easy to navigate....

go to www.schooldays.ie 
On the left hand side, there is a list of links including

Finding a Primary School
Finding a Secondary School

Clicking on either of these will bring you to another series of links for each location in the country.  Click on the one you want (e.g. Wicklow) and a listing for every school comes up with full details.  The heading Fees: Yes is probably a sound indication that fees are charged.

Of course you could always send them to the local school and increase your Voluntary contribution to €5,000 per year.....


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## aman

My children attend a fee-paying Montessori primary school in Celbridge.

I chose it for a number of reasons including (not in any particular preference)

(a) the fact that teaching is done through the Montessori method
(b) the small class sizes (no more than 16 in any classroom form Junior Infants upwards).
(C) my children are not Christian & rightly or wrongly I had concerns about sending them to the local Catholic schools.

So far I am very happy with the school & my children have thrived there. If anyone thought there was any snobbery attached to my decision they should would only have to look at the building they are in (a prefab) which is actually too small but we are hoping they will move in another couple of years. 

If anyone would like info on the school please feel free to PM me - I have no connections with the school as such other than a parent of two children attending there.


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## Complainer

angelique said:


> They are all together, how can I know which one is fee-paying ? And which one is primary ...


Are you sure that it's wise to have 'fee-paying' as your primary criteria?


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## tink

Hi, I personally do not think it is worth sending your child to a private fee paying school particulary not at primary school level. Both my primary and secondary school education was private and most of friends agree that they would not send their children to private schools as a lot of the teachers were just not up to scratch. I feel that for secondary schools you should be looking at the results, how many go on to third level etc. Personally I think it is a positive for children to go to a mixed primary school at least as I did not and I think it is a strange idea to educate your child in a segregated manner when they will go on to third level and a working environment with both sexes. Just my personal opinion...


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## Crazychick

Mount Sackville Primary is called Scoil Mhuire (its not a gaelscoil).  Its located within the grounds of the secondary school.  Mount Sackville is only a 5 minute drive from Castleknock village, located along the back road to Chapelizod.  You can also access the school via the Phoenix Park at the Chapelizod Gate entrance.


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