# Setting up limited company - Which accountant?



## Conshine (12 Dec 2011)

I am going to set up a limited company for me to do IT contracting.

I have had a couple of appointments with accountants and I want to ensure I go with the one that firstly seems most capable, but as importantly, is not charging me over the odds.

I am finding it difficult to get straight answers out of the two I have seen around the costs involved.
I am told that the costs "could" be between €1,500 to €2,000, depending on complexity, but there seems little information that breaks this down. There is also a daily rate that is chargeable, but they will answer ad-hoc questions over the phone / email.

I have spoken to people that say that it should be more like in the region of €1,000-€1,500.

Also, somebody else I know (in building) told me a story that he was paying around €2k per year, even when things got bad in the building industry. He recently threatened to go elsewhere and his accountant then dropped his price to €750.

How can I figure out where I am going to get the best deal?


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## contemporary (12 Dec 2011)

Why not use the accountant that reduced his price to €750 then?


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## iamthemoney (12 Dec 2011)

shop around, what you are looking for is very basic, 1000 - 1500 tops is what it should be..

also its possible to get a company pre setup, ie with vat no, bank account etc. 

if you need any info send me a PM.


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## J.Ryan (12 Dec 2011)

Conshine said:


> I am going to set up a limited company for me to do IT contracting.
> 
> I have had a couple of appointments with accountants and I want to ensure I go with the one that firstly seems most capable, but as importantly, is not charging me over the odds.
> 
> ...


 

I would suggest meeting a few accountants, letting them know that you you are "interviewing" some for this assignment. See you like the most on the face to face meeting.

Its hard to say what the charge will be, because its based on taking your information and then placing it into a set of accounts, but it has to be reviewed first and changes made, Accruals, Prepayments and Depreciation are 3 of the most common things clients leave out, then more than likely CT and CRO returns need to be done, but again your nominal ledger postings will have to be reviewed (this all depends on the system you use and your level of accuracy on it) and currently as you have not started to trade, they have no idea how good your records will be.

Going with the cheapest price can cost you more in the long run, then again sometimes the cheapest price is someone looking to start up their own practice, meet the people face to face, go with your gut and don't be afraid to move on if you are not getting the service you deserve.


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## J.Ryan (12 Dec 2011)

Sorry,  I though you were asking about year end accounts etc,  a limited company can be set up through a formation agent for between €200.00 and €300.00, registering a company for tax, could be done yourself by completing a form TR2.

An accountant is not needed for these services, although, they can do them for you.


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## Conshine (12 Dec 2011)

contemporary said:


> Why not use the accountant that reduced his price to €750 then?



Location wasnt suitable, I want somebody nearby, I was only using this as an example of how the fees seem to fluctuate.




J.Ryan said:


> I would suggest meeting a few accountants, letting them know that you you are "interviewing" some for this assignment. See you like the most on the face to face meeting.
> 
> Its hard to say what the charge will be, because its based on taking your information and then placing it into a set of accounts, but it has to be reviewed first and changes made, Accruals, Prepayments and Depreciation are 3 of the most common things clients leave out, then more than likely CT and CRO returns need to be done, but again your nominal ledger postings will have to be reviewed (this all depends on the system you use and your level of accuracy on it) and currently as you have not started to trade, they have no idea how good your records will be.



Yes, thats my plan, but it isnt as though there is a price list where I can pick and choose what services I want. Even if there were services that had a low, medium and high complexity at three different prices, that would be better than what I am finding. They just seem to be plucking figures from the air.




J.Ryan said:


> Sorry, I though you were asking about year end accounts etc, a limited company can be set up through a formation agent for between €200.00 and €300.00, registering a company for tax, could be done yourself by completing a form TR2.
> 
> An accountant is not needed for these services, although, they can do them for you.



Sorry - You were right first time around. Badly worded post! It is the year end / annual fees I am talking about.
The setting up of the company is straight forward enough.


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## T McGibney (12 Dec 2011)

Shopping around solely on the basis of price is not recommended. Nor is tying an accountant or similar professional to an immutable fixed price as this may merely incentivise them to cut corners or restrict the range of issues that they bring to your attention.

If money is that tight, don't form a company at all, and/or get a bookkeeper to help you cover the most basic requirements.

Otherwise my advice in sourcing an accountant is to seek recommendations from trusted friends and colleagues.


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## mandelbrot (12 Dec 2011)

Conshine said:


> Yes, thats my plan, but it isnt as though there is a price list where I can pick and choose what services I want. Even if there were services that had a low, medium and high complexity at three different prices, that would be better than what I am finding. They just seem to be plucking figures from the air.



The problem from the accountant's side is that they have no idea how much time the assignment will involve. Some people keep very good records, and some keep atrocious records that may multiply the amount of time taken to do the accounts.

If you're able and willing to take the time to prepare a good set of books then you should be able to negotiate a decent fee, if you make that clear when talking to potential accountants.


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## T McGibney (12 Dec 2011)

J.Ryan said:


> I would suggest meeting a few accountants, letting them know that you you are "interviewing" some for this assignment.


Bear in mind that the 'interview' will work both ways in that the accountant will also be silently assessing whether they want to take on the client and how far they are willing to go to recruit them. Any established accountant or firm will be wary of taking on a client if they suspect that they may be difficult to deal with, or if they feel that the client's expectations are unrealistic.

Beware of the accountant whose promises sound too good to be true or who doesn't tell you at least one thing that you don't want to hear. There are far too many 'no problem' merchants out there but in the long run the chickens always come home to roost.


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## T McGibney (12 Dec 2011)

Conshine said:


> Location wasnt suitable, I want somebody nearby,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't let geography dictate your choice of accountant. Phone and email now mean that visiting your accountant on routine business is largely becoming a thing of the past.


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## Firefly (12 Dec 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Shopping around solely on the basis of price is not recommended. Nor is tying an accountant or similar professional to an immutable fixed price as this may merely incentivise them to cut corners or restrict the range of issues that they bring to your attention.
> 
> If money is that tight, don't form a company at all, and/or get a bookkeeper to help you cover the most basic requirements.
> 
> Otherwise my advice in sourcing an accountant is to seek recommendations from trusted friends and colleagues.



As an IT contractor I agree with all of this. When I started contracting I contacted CXC. Their price was OK but I found that it was a basic service and I was talking to someone I didn't know and who didn't really care. I contacted my father's old accountant and although he's more expensive I'm very happy with her. I've often rang her up asking for advice on different matters and have received excellent and timely advice. My tax is paid on time and I sleep well. There is another thread on contracting expenses and I remember the chat I had with her as I was under the impression that contractors were able to claim lots of expenses. I still remember what she said "You can claim what you want but if Revenue have different ideas you're in big trouble". So for me (and this applies to any professionals I employ the services of) getting the right advice and service trumps the cost for every time as the downside is far greater.


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## Gekko (12 Dec 2011)

Have you provided the accountants with precise details of the work that'll be required?

Probably not I'm guessing.

Professionals whose work is billed based on the time input for the assignment generally provide an indicative cost.

The client that's looking for a "€750 all in" gig isn't worth having in my view 'cause they'll be the very one plaguing you.

It's easy to be a busy fool and it's also true to say if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys.  The right accountant is worth paying appropriately because he or she will prove to be self financing.


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## M K Brazil (13 Dec 2011)

Most accountants find it hard to quote in advance because we don't know what we are getting into - some guys give you perfect books - others a show box of gibberish. Also, do you want them to deal with the PAYE submissions, help you decide on director's salaries? Help you set up internal expense re-imbursement scheme? 

Its possible to do the usual end of year CRO and tax submissions and accounts etc for €1,500 - but you wil only get the very basic processing service for this - and its worth the extra few bob for an advisor who'd actually care and take to time to add value to your case.

I'd also use an accountant to do the formation and registering for taxes etc - you'd be surprised how often this is messed up and company's end up acting ultra vires etc. Normally accountants will do this for very little as they want to build the long-term relationship etc.


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## simplyjoe (19 Dec 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Beware of the accountant whose promises sound too good to be true or who doesn't tell you at least one thing that you don't want to hear. There are far too many 'no problem' merchants out there but in the long run the chickens always come home to roost.


 
This is good advice. There are too many yes men out there and then the you know what hits the fan and they are no where to be seen. Better be told everything including the stuff you dont want to hear.


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