# Habitual Resident Rules: Recently returned Irish Person (NI), many years in US?



## nimc (30 Jul 2011)

Hello can anyone give me information or experienced the trouble that I am having proving to be a habitual resident!

I am an irish person who has recently returned to Ireland after serveal years in the USA.

I am separted and have two young children. 

I am now living the the Republic with my children and have my son enrolled in school starting September. 

I have been refused social welfare under the habitual resident condition that I am orginally from the North but have no ties there anymore! 

I have family all living in the Republic.


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## gipimann (30 Jul 2011)

Habitual Residence is determined by considering 5 factors:

*Factor 1* - Length and continuity of residence in Ireland or in any other particular country
*Factor 2* - Length and purpose of any absence from Ireland
*Factor 3* - Nature and pattern of employment
*Factor 4* - Applicant's main centre of interest
*Factor 5* - Future intention of applicant concerned as they appear from all the circumstances.

No one of these is more important than the others.

There is a SW booklet on HRC on their website, but the link appears to be broken at the moment, so here is the link to the guideline for deciding officers which gives more information on what each of the factors mean.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx

You can appeal a refusal of HRC, the letter you received should have details on how to do this.


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## nimc (30 Jul 2011)

I know I have appealed this twice already and I was wanting to find out if anyone new how long you need to living here to be class an habitual resident!


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## gipimann (30 Jul 2011)

Habitual residence is not based on length of time spent in the country (it may form part of the decision, but is not a sole factor).

There is no set length of time which will "make someone habitually resident".   You must satisfy the 5 factors as outlined in an earlier post.

As you have appealed the decision twice, it is obviously the decision of the Dept that you don't satisfy the criteria for habitual residence.


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## Guest105 (30 Jul 2011)

Nimc - Note the following and go back and show the social welfare person you dealing with this article from the [broken link removed]




> THE GOVERNMENT has issued new guidelines to staff working in social welfare offices to try to prevent hundreds of returning emigrants from being unfairly refused welfare under residency rules.


 


> new guidelines issued by the Department of Social Protection state: “Returned emigrants or retired missionaries who have chosen to resettle in Ireland should be considered to have their main centre of interest here.”


 
Let us know how you get on


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## gipimann (30 Jul 2011)

The guidelines I linked to in my earlier post are the new guidelines which were updated on 29th June.


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## eastbono (30 Jul 2011)

cashier said:


> Nimc - Note the following and go back and show the social welfare person you dealing with this article from the [broken link removed]
> Let us know how you get on


 
The OP is not a returning emigrant, OP is from Northern Ireland


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## nimc (30 Jul 2011)

I am a returning emigrant I have spent the last 10 years living in the usa and I have now returned to ireland to be close to my sister, aunte and uncle I have no ties to the north! But since that was my birth place I am now subject to the habitual resident condition!! Family I have now are all in the roi!!!


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## gipimann (30 Jul 2011)

Persons born in the republic of Ireland are also subject to the habitual residence condition, it hasn't been imposed because you were born in NI.


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## nimc (31 Jul 2011)

So I am trying to understand this so why did the social welfare officer say to me to try looking in the north for benefits because I wasnt going to get any here even that I live and rent in the south have a child enrolled in school and planning to make this place my home for good???


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## Guest105 (31 Jul 2011)

nimc said:


> So I am trying to understand this so why did the social welfare officer say to me to try looking in the north for benefits because I wasnt going to get any here even that I live and rent in the south have a child enrolled in school and planning to make this place my home for good???


 
Nimc - can you go through the appeals process or contact your local electoral representative to help you on this.

I think that was very odd of the social welfare person telling you to go to the north for benefits and you living in the South.


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## Magpie (31 Jul 2011)

You don't need to put !!! at the end of every sentence, it gives the reader the disconcerting feeling of being screamed at. 

Anyway, if you have been away from Ireland for a decade and you are not from the Republic in the first place, its not really a big surprise that you have been assessed as not habitually resident. Try an appeal and see if they will give you the reasons in writing.


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## mrsk (31 Jul 2011)

I'm glad there is a habitual residence requirement, it may help prevent welfare tourism! Irish people don't qualify for social welfare payments when they arrive in the US or Australia, why should we give away our limited resources to people who haven't paid prsi or tax in Ireland for years  But you'll probably be entitled to supplementary welfare allowance if you've no other income, contact your Community welfare officer


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## gipimann (31 Jul 2011)

Supplementary Welfare Allowance claims are also subject to meeting HRC conditions.


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## busymam (31 Jul 2011)

nimc said:


> Hello can anyone give me information or experienced the trouble that I am having proving to be a habitual resident!! I am an irish person who has rescently returned to ireland after serveal years in the usa! I am separted and have two young children. I am now living the the republic with my children and have my son enrolled in school starting september! I have been refused social welfare under the habitual resident condition I am orginally from the north but have no ties there anymore! I have family all living in the republic!!!


 
A few questions :
1. Did you provide proof of your permanent return to Ireland? For example, sale/transport of personal items from the US to Ireland, closure of bank account(s) in the US, cancellation of lease of a property in the US etc.
2. Did you provide proof of your separation?
3. Did you ever work in the Republic of Ireland?
4. When did you come to live in the Republic of Ireland and how have you supported yourself and your children?
5. Did you apply for Child Benefit? HRC applies to this also.

Habitual Residence is very complex and no two cases are the same. As Gipimann posted, If you have already been through the appeals process twice, it is highly unlikely that you will satisy HRC.


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## nimc (2 Aug 2011)

mrsk: There is no social welfare for irish living in the usa when they are living in the usa illeagally there is no benefits at all.  Come to think of it I have actually been saving this country money when i have not claimed any benefits for my son who is now 6.  I have worked all my life in the republic of ireland before I left paying prsi so tell me why I wouldnt be entitled to welfare when people are coming from other counties and claim for there children who are not even living here!!!!


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## Guns N Roses (2 Aug 2011)

nimc said:


> I know I have appealed this twice already and I was wanting to find out if anyone new how long you need to living here to be class an habitual resident!


 
If you have appealed twice and been refused surely the Appeal Officer who dealt with your case has given you a letter stating the reasons why you are not classed as Habitual Resident?


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