# Self Employed €203 Payment



## myate (24 Mar 2020)

I'm self employed and due to the Covid-19 situation, like a lot of people & self employed, my business is essentially on hold until this passes - so zero income. I applied last week for the government payment, the day after they made the announcement. Just wondering if any other self employed people have done the same, and actually received it yet. As of this morning (24th) nothing yet! I know they said it starts getting paid out today...so just wondering!


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## michaelg (24 Mar 2020)

Nothing yet here either.


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## Bigbangr1 (24 Mar 2020)

There is talk it will go too €350 per week


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## Dinarius (25 Mar 2020)

The payment has been raised to €350 per week as of yesterday.

Where can I apply for it? Please post a link.

AFAIK, processing will take some weeks and they are almost certainly overwhelmed with applications.

Would be grateful for any info.

Many thanks.

D.


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## Dinarius (25 Mar 2020)

Is this the link...?





__





						COVID-19
					

<p>Apply




					services.mywelfare.ie
				




Do we also have to make a Jobseekers application in order to qualify for the payment?

Thanks

D.


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## ATC110 (25 Mar 2020)

Applied last Wednesday, no payment yet. 
It was announced yesterday the first payments would be made on Friday 27th March.


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## QC_Mimi (25 Mar 2020)

Dinarius said:


> Do we also have to make a Jobseekers application in order to qualify for the payment?



Only need to fill in the UP1/JSB form if you have adult and children dependants (may get extra payment for them)  OR are going to be impacted beyond the 6 weeks (which could be extended) e.g. self employed people with work contracts have been cancelled for the rest of the year, can fill in both forms so JSB can kick in after 6 weeks... and sign off whenever they get back to work.


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## Dinarius (25 Mar 2020)

Thanks.

The form is a wee bit confusing coz it assumes you're an employee - unless I was on the wrong page.

Anyone, I received a confirmation email, so it's over to them now.

D.


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## Slim (25 Mar 2020)

@Dinarius. When and how did you apply to get an email confirmation so quickly?


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## Compass (25 Mar 2020)

Has anyone figured out the exact meaning of the criteria for self employed/ sole traders in https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

Specifically last criteria: if you are self-employed and have ceased trading due to the pandemic.

What does 'cease trading' mean? Simply issue no invoices/ make no sales? Or close down the business entirely? And then start up again?

What about the many who will have significantly reduced income but still some customers to deal with??


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## Baby boomer (25 Mar 2020)

I applied online at mywelfare.ie today. (You need to have a MyGovID account already set up.) Got an acknowledgement notification straightaway:


"Thank you for your recent Emergency Payments application. Your application has been submitted and is awaiting review from an officer.

If you are applying for COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, you will also need to apply for Jobseekers. Start your application now.

*Please note applications are processed in order of received date and we aim to process your application within 7 days. Payments will issue to your bank account once processed.*"

Ok, so far so good.  A couple of questions and comments though.

1.  The online form is clearly designed for employees and asks for your employers name and address and telephone.  I just entered "self-employed" in the field for employer and put down my own address and phone number.

2.  My work has dried up completely as my clients are all closed or closing.  However, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I will do some preparation for future work, prepare materials in anticipation, marketing, housekeeping, accounts, that kind of thing. So, strictly speaking, I'm hardly unemployed, more like keeping the business ticking over in a quiescent state, ready to pick up again whenever.  Presumably, this doesn't disqualify me from the payment, but should I explicitly tell the Department this?  I just want to be straightforward and upfront.

3.  Is the emergency payment liable to Income Tax and USC?


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## Compass (25 Mar 2020)

Baby boomer said:


> 2.  My work has dried up completely as my clients are all closed or closing.  However, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I will do some preparation for future work, prepare materials in anticipation, marketing, housekeeping, accounts, that kind of thing. So, strictly speaking, I'm hardly unemployed, more like keeping the business ticking over in a quiescent state, ready to pick up again whenever.  Presumably, this doesn't disqualify me from the payment, but should I explicitly tell the Department this?  I just want to be straightforward and upfront.
> 
> 3.  Is the emergency payment liable to Income Tax and USC?



I think no2 would be the reality for most sole traders but is this what the Dept means?? When I think of 'cease trading', the term implies shutting up shop completely, what you do if you're closing down your business. And that's quite a lot to do and undo in a month or two to get going again.

Re No3, I read it as a tax free social welfare payment but is that right??


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## Monbretia (26 Mar 2020)

Re No 3 and bearing in mind that normal rules don't seem to be applying or may not for a while, Jobseekers Benefit is normally a taxable payment, in general most benefits are and most means tested allowances are not.   But if you do have a taxable benefit you are able to also claim the PAYE tax credit even if self employed which usually balances it out especially on a short term basis.


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## Baby boomer (26 Mar 2020)

Monbretia said:


> ...if you do have a taxable benefit you are able to also claim the PAYE tax credit even if self employed...



Surely not?  If you're self employed, you get the Earned Income tax credit of €1500.  The PAYE credit is €1650.  If you qualify for both, you get the higher.  Can't see Revenue giving you the cumulative benefit of both!  Then again, we live in strange times...


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## Monbretia (26 Mar 2020)

It has been the case that if  you are claiming a taxable benefit you also can claim the PAYE credit up to the amount of tax paid so if you are only liable for 500 say tax on the benefit that is all of the credit you can claim.   This was the case up to last accounts I did anyway for my daughter as she had Maternity Benefit which is a taxable benefit so was also entitled to portion of PAYE credit.   As the Earned Income credit only started in recent years maybe they are changing that until it's up to the PAYE allowance level, always working behind for accounts so it was different anyway.


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## Maybrick (26 Mar 2020)

What if you are self-employed, you usually earn around 1,000 per week but thanks to the virus that is down to around 400 per week? Are you entitled to any compensation or is that just tough luck?


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## Dinarius (26 Mar 2020)

Slim said:


> @Dinarius. When and how did you apply to get an email confirmation so quickly?



I applied as per the others on this thread.

As with BabyBoomer, my confirmation (no reply) email arrived immediately.

I also saw the bit about having to apply for Job Seekers, but I haven't filled that in yet.

I suspect that this is going to be a mess before it gets better. Many reasonable questions being posted above about what constitutes self-employed being unemployed.

We shall see. I await Welfare's reply.

D.


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## Baby boomer (26 Mar 2020)

Dinarius said:


> ...Many reasonable questions being posted above about what constitutes self-employed being unemployed...



Surprised that some explicit criteria weren't included.  This is done for the Covid 19 Wage Subsidy scheme where the employer must self-certify a 25% decrease in turnover.  

Maybrick above asks a very pertinent question: what are you supposed to do if your income drops from say, 1000 to 400 per week.  If that's not sufficient to qualify you, what is?  €250pw, €100, €50, €10?  Where does one draw the line?  What if you have sizeable invoices issued (or about to issue) for work done but the pipeline of work is dry?  Actually, that issue arises too for the Wage Subsidy scheme, now that I think of it.

So many questions; so few answers.  I do think though that the spirit of the thing is to help people and the guidelines are intended to place people in scope rather than outside of scope.  I imagine it's likely that the normal rigid approach to such things will be set aside and claims will be paid on a good faith basis.  With grey areas resolved in favour of the claimant.


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## myate (26 Mar 2020)

Being self employed/sole trader is always a tricky one. My business is essentially closed up, no money coming in, and until this blows over it wont come in. Now when it does get back to normal, my business will continue where it left off before this kicked off big time. I'm hoping the Covid payment is enough for then...I have no intention (yet) of looking for job seekers after, but who knows how long this will go on for. Like Maybrick, I thankfully would earn more than the €350 per week, but that would amount would help out no end to pay mortgage.
I know it's a big ask, but why can't Revenue get involved, as they know exactly what we all earn, or at least they do via our last tax return.
I applied via paper form through the post, on Tuesday 17th...no payment has come into my account yet. We'll see tomorrow.


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## Compass (26 Mar 2020)

Maybrick said:


> What if you are self-employed, you usually earn around 1,000 per week but thanks to the virus that is down to around 400 per week? Are you entitled to any compensation or is that just tough luck?



I think many of us are in this situation but it's very hard to get a clear answer at the moment. In fairness 'self employed' covers many different situations, so perhaps that's understandable.  Our sales have fallen significantly but I'd be very loathe to stop fulfilling the odd online order and putting out the idea that we're out of business. The government message seems to be that businesses small & large are to be supported so that they can kick back into gear when things pass over. That seems to be the spirit of the message so I think the best thing is to apply and take it from there. The worst than can happen is that the Dept of Social Protection will investigate rigorously in months to come and demand some of their few bob back. It's a simple one page application but I have heard that a more detailed document may follow for self employed/ sole traders. On other hand, hard to see the state investigating the accounts of several thousand individual sole traders to figure this out. On top of which they would get a right kicking in the media given the circumstances.


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## Compass (26 Mar 2020)

It would be helpful if the stated criteria for self employed/ sole traders was to be changed from 'cease trading' to 'reduced trading' in line with assistance scheme to larger businesses.... but we may live in hope. My experience over 30 years as a self employed/ sole trader is to expect to get kicked about and ignored by the state!!


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## ATC110 (26 Mar 2020)

Has anyone received a payment yet?


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## myate (27 Mar 2020)

Not as of this morning anyway.



ATC110 said:


> Has anyone received a payment yet?


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## ATC110 (27 Mar 2020)

myate said:


> Not as of this morning anyway.


Likewise


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## discovery101 (27 Mar 2020)

Dinarius said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The form is a wee bit confusing coz it assumes you're an employee - unless I was on the wrong page.
> 
> ...



Yes its geared toward employees not the self employed.......anyone got and ideas / links?


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## ATC110 (27 Mar 2020)

discovery101 said:


> Yes its geared toward employees not the self employed.......anyone got and ideas / links?



The paper form wasn't. Check if that option is still available?


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## Compass (27 Mar 2020)

discovery101 said:


> Yes its geared toward employees not the self employed.......anyone got and ideas / links?


As far as I can see you just fill it in putting your trading name as your employer and then selecting 'Self Employed' in status below.


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## Mmalena (29 Mar 2020)

Hi, I have been reviewing the criteria for the payment. For some reason initially i thought it covered the reduced hours (?) but now it seems it only covers when ceased trading. So if the income reduced by 80% and basically falls below the potential Covid 19 payment - still self employed person is not eligible for it? I would appreciate your input. Thanks


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## Dinarius (31 Mar 2020)

My first €350 payment arrived in my account this morning.

I applied last Wednesday, March 25th.

I have had no contact with anyone in welfare apart from the "no reply" automated reply to my application last Wednesday.

So, excellent service - no complaints whatsoever.

D.


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## Suz2015 (31 Mar 2020)

€350 received here too. I applied with effect from 19th March, will my payment be backdated to that date at some stage?


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## myate (31 Mar 2020)

Yes received mine too finally...applied via paper form in the post on 17th March. Only thing keeping me above water now. Funny as I had to pay VAT last week of almost twice as much! There'll be no VAT payments in the next window...no income!!


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## ATC110 (31 Mar 2020)

I applied on 18th March, with the effective date being 13th March, and received €350 today too. Does anyone know when the second week will be paid?


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## eireTravelguide (2 Apr 2020)

As my friend has lost online access, I submit this for her in her name, and will feedback answer to her...   Christa

´I submitted a Covid 19 Emergency form by snail mail two weeks ago because my new computer had just failed, ( I have a valid warranty that is not any good as the service centre will not operate ‚until after Covid19, so hard to do anything remotely and hard to get hold of any helpline‘)

I finally got through to welfare today, I was told that there was a ˋmismatch’ in my Covid form with my details, and that is probably why Emergency payment was not paid. I checked this again, but pps number is correct and so are bank details,
I was not aware of the rule that anyone who lost their job before 12 March is not eligible, there was no sign of that when I filled in the form, I put in last day of work 10/03/20 and there were already signs of Covid, t.b.h. I went into 14 days self-isolation to be sure after guiding the tour that finished 10/03.

Work and jobs lost were NOT before the excluded time, but would have started shortly after and were 100% Covid related (I even included an overview in my mail) and I have more proof now that all my tours for 10 weeks are cancelled until  May2020. So I thought I was really matching the requirement, wonder what was missing and fail to find out. Maybe the form got wet and was not readable?

I have no access to the internet, other than ask a friend next door, but I cannot work on her computer, at the moment we exchange usb with texts if I must email, Welfare want me to log on to their page, fill out claims, but it is not possible.
I cannot use their internet and am trying to organize a computer and WiFi access which is difficult right now.

I need to solve this either by mobile phone (not web capable) or email but find it very hard to find out what the problem is and why payment was not processed and why no one can come back to me by mail or phone.

I know they are very busy, and I was in the queue to welfare for more than an hour today and thankfully got hold of someone who was helpful just before 5pm. But the info that my payment was on hold due to mismatching data is very confusing and I have received no reassurance.


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## Baby boomer (7 Apr 2020)

There is a significant and beneficial change to the published criteria for this scheme.
Instead of self-employed having to "cease trading" the government website now says:

[broken link removed]

"You may, if your trading income has collapsed to the extent that you are available to take up other full-time employment if it was offered to you, receive a payment of €350 per week for so long as you are available to take up other work."

This is a far more practical guideline than having to cease trading.


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