# Penalty points for driving on a non motorway hard shoulder?



## SPUDZ (4 Apr 2006)

I got stopped this morning for driving on the hardshoulder: result 2 penalty points and 80euro fine! (me and about 50 others!!)
Was driving on the hard shoulder on dual carriageway to gain access to the lane to turn left, entering a roundabout.
Told Guard that I didn't think I was committing an offence as the Gov. papers clearly state, "driving on a hard shoulder on a motorway". Asked me if I believed everything I read! Told him that was the information that they were giving to the public. Argued that I was breaking the law etc!

SO...phoned the police station this evening at HQ and was told that I was indeed correct..that it applies to the hard shoulder on the motorway only (no mention of dual carriage way etc). Told me to contest the fine when it arrives, and if I did not get satisfaction, then to contest it at court as I was 100% correct and the penalty and fine will be knocked out.

Also, for the record, the penalty for driving on the hardshoulder (if it was indeed a motorway) is only 1 point (as per Gov. papers), and not 2 as stated by the guard who was stopping cars.

Has anyone else had this experience since the new system came into play on Mon??

Did you complain that it states motorway and not all hardshoulders etc??

Well Im awaiting the fine in the post, looking forward to writing a stinker of a letter in response!


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## SPUDZ (4 Apr 2006)

*Re: Penalty Points for Driving on a Non Motorway hardshoulder?*

Why does this post not appear on the New Posts section?


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## mc-BigE (5 Apr 2006)

What about "Driving on a Median Strip" it gives an example of between dual carriageways, but I though a median strip was the orange line on the left hand side of a road?

Down here in Cork, I was very tempted to do something similar yesterday on the way home, as everybody else was doing it. But the traffic was worse than before because people were afraid to use the hard shoulder coming up to a slip off road.







http://www.penaltypoints.ie/assets/pdf/35penalty_points_offences.pdf


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## ajapale (5 Apr 2006)

Hi Spudz,

There is no "New Posts" section in AAM.

Your point is very interesting Im surprised it hasnt got a bigger response. Let us know how you get on when you go to court. Are you planning on engaging a solicitor?

Hi Mc,

Median means middle. I think the leglislation is designed to stop motorists doing uturns on the motorway.

aj


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## mc-BigE (5 Apr 2006)

ajapale said:
			
		

> Median means middle.


 
Yes, things are very obvious when there are pointed out to you!   

Regards

Homer Simpson.....dooooh!


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## mc-BigE (5 Apr 2006)

i sent off an email 1/2 hour ago, this is the reply back:


Dear Sir/Madam,

It is an offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway only. It is still permitted to use the hard shoulder on national and regional roads.


Regards,



xxxxx O'Brien
Road Safety and Traffic Division
Department of Transport


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## SPUDZ (5 Apr 2006)

Hi ajapale
Wont be using a solicitor if it actually gets as far as court. I am confident that I dont need one, as I feel the situation is Black and White with regards the Gov. papers. Motorway only. If is was an offence to drive on any or all hard shoulders then why the heck do they say it is an offence to drive on the hardshoulder of the motorway, why dont they just say hardshoulder.period.


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## monicafussy (5 Apr 2006)

I was pulled over on Monday morning for driving in a redundant bus lane, is this an offence as there is definitly no bus route(17a bus previously ) it happenned at the back of Bewleys comig on to the M50. Any advice appreciated. Am expecting my fine and penalty points any day now!


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## monkeyboy (5 Apr 2006)

Unfortuantely if the signs are still up it is still a bus lane. I have checked this out with Finagal Co Co.
The N32 M50 to Clarehall has no buses running on it. It is a beautiful straight dual carriage that splits into 4 lanes and 3 directions at the end. This is so obviously a perfect scenario to have 2 lanes in the lead up but ....no......
FCC decree that it is for "emergency access" .
Maddness


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## ajapale (5 Apr 2006)

I think its still an offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a non motorway; just not a penalty point offence.


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## Brouhahaha (6 Apr 2006)

ajapale said:
			
		

> I think its still an offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a non motorway; just not a penalty point offence.



I believe so too. The hard shoulder is for emergency stops only as far as I'm aware - it's not a proxy lane to beat the traffic. You shouldn't get the penalty points though.


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## gramlab (6 Apr 2006)

Penalty point site actually has it down as a 3 point offence (1 if you pay up). The points they tell you the offence carries is always the higher one i.e. if you go to court. For example speeding actually carries 4 points but if you own up and pay the fixed penalty fine they 'let you off' with 2.
Also thought hard shoulder driving was always an offence no matter what road you are on.

http://www.penaltypoints.ie//assets/pdf/35penalty_pointsoffences.pdf


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## Ned_ie (6 Apr 2006)

I think it is an offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a non motorway too. I know I have definately seen where the cops pull you on the hard shoulder driving to avoid the traffic and get into a left turn lane further up - on both an ordinary road and a normal road. I think though you should be careful about the arguement. If it is definately cited as being for driving in the hard shoulder then appeal but be careful that it is not down or may be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration. that's a two pointer.


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## Ned_ie (6 Apr 2006)

Or even dangerous overtaking!


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## Lorz (6 Apr 2006)

mc-BigE said:
			
		

> Down here in Cork, I was very tempted to do something similar yesterday on the way home, as everybody else was doing it. But the traffic was worse than before because people were afraid to use the hard shoulder coming up to a slip off road.


 
Was that on the Sarsfield rd side of Kinsale Rd roundabout?  Drives me insane - I've seen so many near accidents too because drivers coming up the hard shoulder don't look to see if there is traffic come down the slip road from Togher!    Then these people go on to *MAKE* a third lane around the roundabout for Douglas exit!  Sorry - turning into a rant!


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## mc-BigE (6 Apr 2006)

Yes Lorz, that's the spot, the slip off to Togher from Sardfield roundabout.
there will be a big accident there soon. because cars are driving on the hard shoulder at 40 to 60mph!


Updated:

Sorry, just read your thread properly second time! its the junction before kinsale roundabout to Togher.


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## Ned_ie (6 Apr 2006)

Lorz / Mc
Nearly everytime I pass that place I see the gardai have someone pulled in so they are clamping down on it around there. Hence I think it falls under dangerous driving


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## michaelm (6 Apr 2006)

monicafussy said:
			
		

> I was pulled over on Monday morning for driving in a redundant bus lane, is this an offence as there is definitly no bus route(17a bus previously ) it happenned at the back of Bewleys comig on to the M50. Any advice appreciated. Am expecting my fine and penalty points any day now!


Driving in a bus lane will not incur penalty points, however  there is a Fixed Charge tax of €60.  If in doubt then ask . . info@penaltypoints.ie


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## asdfg (6 Apr 2006)

> Or even dangerous overtaking!


 
Do you mean undertaking


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## Ned_ie (6 Apr 2006)

It would be undertaking yes - but may fall under the overtaking provisions - not sure really - it was just a thought. I note that undertaking is not specifically mentioned anywhere (or am I missing something?)


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## Lorz (6 Apr 2006)

mc Big E - 
Almost as bad as the top of Carrs Hill!I sometimes sit in between the 2 lanes to prevent people whizzing up the inside but the last time I did this, the car behind me, went around me!


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## Kiddo (6 Apr 2006)

monicafussy said:
			
		

> I was pulled over on Monday morning for driving in a redundant bus lane, is this an offence as there is definitly no bus route(17a bus previously ) it happenned at the back of Bewleys comig on to the M50. Any advice appreciated. Am expecting my fine and penalty points any day now!


 
Is this the N32? I was ranting about this on saturday to my dad who works in Dublin Bus and he said the Dublin Bus airport bus (route 747?) from Busaras uses this bus lane during peak times as it comes down the Malahide Road to avoid the Port Tunnel works...so its still a recognised bus lane. Apparently this bus has no set route..its up to the driver to choose.

A lot of taxi drivers seem to use it too to access the city centre from the airport. 

AFAIK its not a penalty point offence..just a fine.


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## bskinti (7 Apr 2006)

Hard shoulders: now that one's not to drive on H/S on motorways will most people think they cant drive on them on wide roads, So when a lorry with a full load or a small car and caravan is not able to go any faster than 40 MPH they will be afraid to move over to let 62 mph cars past, will people not get aggravated and overtake where possible and sometimes at risk and may cause more deaths, I think its a stupid rule which will cause more deaths because people and even the Gardie don't understand what is meant by not driving on Hard shoulder.


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