# legal Q about my brother's living situation when my parents pass away



## jan (11 Jan 2021)

Two brothers (K and A) are living in the home place - they don't get on - the house is on a farm - Dad has willed the land to brother K (he assumes that includes the house too).. bro K is the farmer in the family.. 
Brother A has lived in the home place all of his life - but Dad has not specified his name in the will with regards to remaining on in the home place when him and Mum have passed on... he assumed that bro A would have got his own place etc - but that hasn't happened... life etc..
Bro A wants to remain in the home place - but is worried that bro K (who is getting the land - house included I assume?) will throw him out (they don't get on).. 
Dad is reluctant to change his will to say that bro A will own the house too/remain living there or what ever, as he says that they could not live together when him and Mum are not there - there would be war - but that leaves bro A homeless? He really wants to remain at home. 
Does bro A have rights to stay on in the home place, even if its not specified in the will, as he has lived there all of his life?
Thanks in advance.


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## Bern78 (11 Jan 2021)

What does the dad expect Bro A to do? Be homeless or is he getting any inheritance?


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## jan (11 Jan 2021)

thanks - he thought he would have his own place by now or what ever... we are all getting some money but doubt its much.. 
But I am wondering if a person has rights to remain in a place where they have lived all their lives?


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## Bern78 (11 Jan 2021)

Oh I don’t know from a legal POV re the right to live there- hopefully someone more experienced will come on.

I have seen a similar situation - it turned out ok because the person who was left the house already had one so didn’t bother remove the other person but this would not happen in every situation.
The best thing I feel is see can you talk to the father and see can the will be changed especially if BRO A doesn’t have the means to buy a house. Explain the realities of the situation- a horrible legal fight after his death, disputing brothers etc 

sorry I can’t be of any more help.


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## Clamball (11 Jan 2021)

Yeah, it sounds like a disaster.  Does A have a job and income.  Does he pay rent or contribute to the household in any way?  What does the Dad think will happen after the funeral?  Has it discussed it with A at all?


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## Feemar5 (11 Jan 2021)

Does your mother have any say in who gets what?     At the end of the day a person making a will can leave their property to anybody or any charity so it would be important to see what your mother thinks - does she have any say should she outlive your father.


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## jan (12 Jan 2021)

Bro A has a job but he doesn't wanna move ... I assume Dad has cleared all of this with Mum - they are v close - unlike my brothers - but Mum is ill and in hospital at the mo - thats what has brought all of this to the surface,.. oh its a nightmare... I am so worried about it all - I live the other end of the country and have my own life but its still such a worry... I fear there will be blood... 
Gonna get Dad to call his solicitor to get advice ASAP


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## DeeKie (12 Jan 2021)

Where does brother b live now?


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## jan (12 Jan 2021)

Bro K and A both live at home (parents too)


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## odyssey06 (12 Jan 2021)

I don't think A has any real legal rights in this situation that would allow them to claim a right of residence or share of the estate other than what is in the will.

_Children do not have any absolute right to inherit any of their parent's estate if the parent has made a will... _an adult child would not I think be in a position to claim e.g. under the basis that they have not been provided for which could be an option for those under 21.






						What happens to a deceased person's money and possessions?
					

How to get access to the deceased person's money and property, the rights of family members under wills and how property is distributed.




					www.citizensinformation.ie


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## LS400 (12 Jan 2021)

jan said:


> there would be war



I would remind him of the tragedy in Cork recently. He might realize the delicacy of sorting this out while he still can.


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## Steven Barrett (12 Jan 2021)

Unfortunately we have seen situations about inheriting the family farm end in bloodshed on more than one occasion and your father should be conscious of that when writing a will that will in effect kick one of his sons out of his home. Your father should assist your brother in finding a place of his own now. 

If your brother doesn't farm, why does he want to still live in the house? I wouldn't imagine it's a pleasant place to live with all the tension.


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## sadie (12 Jan 2021)

I don't really get this as a non-farmer and as a woman. If a son is working on the family farm then he should get a proper salary for doing that. He shouldn't have total rights to the land and the house after the father dies. I suspect any daughters can go whistle as well.
It's outrageously unfair to the other children.
Tell your father he is prioritising the farm over the family relationships.
Ask your father if he wants his grandchildren to know their cousins and have a healthy extended family interactions?
Or does he want his children's families to hate each other in a bitter continuing family feud that stretches for generations into the future?
Because that's what he's setting up. To him 'The Farm' is more important than people


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## Vanessa (12 Jan 2021)

sadie said:


> I don't really get this as a non-farmer and as a woman. If a son is working on the family farm then he should get a proper salary for doing that. He shouldn't have total rights to the land and the house after the father dies. I suspect any daughters can go whistle as well.
> It's outrageously unfair to the other children.
> Tell your father he is prioritising the farm over the family relationships.
> Ask your father if he wants his grandchildren to know their cousins and have a healthy extended family interactions?
> ...


Welcome to rural Ireland. What should happen and what does or will happen are completely different. These matters have been the cause of so much division, argument and indeed bloodshed over the years in so many families.
The posters have highlighted so many points of contention. Regardless of how the siblings get on I think one good effort at chatting with each other to see if some agreement could be made as to the future of the property. Then approach the father and see if he is willing to amend the will accordingly. The alternative is much trouble down the line andricher solicitors.

If you have access to the will establish if the inheritance to  son K includes land and house or just land.


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## Clamball (12 Jan 2021)

What has the Dad & Mum told the two adult children still living at home will happen when they die.  It is clear to you that both brothers consider their parents house home.  It is not clear to you what is in the Dad’s will but you are urging him to set up a meeting with a solicitor.  
The assets your Dad has to leave are the house and the farm.  One brother works the farm on a promise that they will inherit?
Given that the other brother is currently living in his Dads house he would have no right to live there once the ownership passes to the farming son.  But this needs to be made very clear to all parties so there is no shock at the end.   Your Dad needs to be clear with the son who is working off the farm that he needs to find his own housing and he is better off moving out sooner rather than later so he can transition to being responsible for himself.  Leaving a mess for the two brothers after he dies is very unfair.


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## jhegarty (12 Jan 2021)

sadie said:


> I don't really get this as a non-farmer...



It's a whole different world to city folk once farmland is involved.

It's normal for the farming child to get the land.  The house is the complex bit when the non-farming child hasn't moved away to the big city.

Often solved by gifting a site and help with the deposit to build so the non-farming child is out of the house many year before an inheritance need to be made.

Leaving things in limbo has lead to many a tragic ending.


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## Buddyboy (12 Jan 2021)

jan said:


> But its a nightmare... I am so worried about it all - I live the other end of the country and have my own life but its still such a worry... I fear there will be blood...
> Gonna get Dad to call his solicitor to get advice ASAP



And to play Devil's advocate, why are you getting involved between adults (your two brothers and you Parents) who presumably are old enough to take responsibility for themselves?
Surely it's not your responsibility to sort our their affairs?
Especially as you don't seem to be in consideration for either the house or the farm.


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## dereko1969 (12 Jan 2021)

Buddyboy said:


> And to play Devil's advocate, why are you getting involved between adults (your two brothers and you Parents) who presumably are old enough to take responsibility for themselves?
> Surely it's not your responsibility to sort our their affairs?
> Especially as you don't seem to be in consideration for either the house or the farm.


Maybe, you know, they want peaceful relations in the family?

This whole thing (farming inheritance) has been helped by the Tax System that ensures if you've done a training course you can inherit the whole farm without tax - even if you sell the whole lot the next day.*

*might be slight exaggeration


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## Bluecup (12 Jan 2021)

jhegarty said:


> Often solved by gifting a site and help with the deposit to build so the non-farming child is out of the house many year before an inheritance need to be made.



Better late than never! This could be the most peaceful way out.


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## Vanessa (13 Jan 2021)

Buddyboy said:


> And to play Devil's advocate, why are you getting involved between adults (your two brothers and you Parents) who presumably are old enough to take responsibility for themselves?
> Surely it's not your responsibility to sort our their affairs?
> Especially as you don't seem to be in consideration for either the house or the farm.


The person is getting involved now to avoid trouble in the future for all the family. Sometimes it takes a non involved party to act as an intermediary and make people see sense. It is a thankless task but the recent tragic event in North Cork showed how people can resort to extreme measures in such cases. This matter could be addressed by meeting individually with all the parties to see what their expectation and indeed compromise might be. What is the cause of the disagreement between the two brothers? Is it substantial or just typical rural pigheadedness?  Highlight in a common letter the terrible outcomes of such disputes over the years. Of course if you are not getting cooperation it might be time to walk away from the lot


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## RedOnion (13 Jan 2021)

dereko1969 said:


> you can inherit the whole farm without tax - even if you sell the whole lot the next day.*
> 
> *might be slight exaggeration


Yes, a slight exaggeration. It's 6 years, or 10 if it's developed land. And it's a bit more than a training course. You have to be an active farmer, and the farm be at least 80% of your assets.


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## Marsha25 (13 Jan 2021)

I'd be inclined to encourage the non farming brother to find a place of his own. Just because he doesn't want to move out of his parents house, doesn't mean he shouldn't - unless he has extra needs in which case provision should be made for him. Surely he sees friends moving on, gaining independence and possibly settling down with their own family.  Does he plan to stay at home forever? What happens if the farming brother gets married? He'd surely need to move on then.  He's not likely to win in this scenario. Your parents are entitled to leave their farm/house to whoever they want.  Harsh as it may sound, assuming he is a heathly, able bodied, working adult then he really needs to take responsibility for his own future and stop relying on his parents to provide for him.


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## odyssey06 (13 Jan 2021)

Marsha25 said:


> Harsh as it may sound, assuming he is a heathly, able bodied, working adult then he really needs to take responsibility for his own future and stop relying on his parents to provide for him.



That's also the view Irish law takes when it comes to inheritance by adult children when there's a will.


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## jan (13 Jan 2021)

Thanks for all of your replies... and at least now I know that as it stands, Bro A would have no rights.. 
Basically, there is a lot of denial on my Dad's part and unfortunately, the boys are somewhat uncivilised; they are not the type to sit down and have a civil conversation with Dad about all of it..
I have asked Dad to talk to Bro A about what he wants to do - realistically.. (maybe Dad to help him out now with living somewhere else).. and to talk to his solicitor..
I have stressed that he needs to do this now before its too late - he's 82 - he has health conditions - he could go at any time (he is not been proactive - denial and putting things on the long finger)
I am only too aware of the possible blood shed - that it why I am trying to get Dad to sort things out now - before its too late.
I live 4 hours from them - and I have a lot of stress in my own life.
Dad and I are v close and now when we talk on the phone we end up arguing about this - well me lecturing.
I will talk to him one more time about this - and after that, I dunno what else I can do - its up to him.
I don't want anything money or land wise - just peace - and for Dad and Mum to be able to go in peace.
For my bro's not to hurt one another. 
Thank you all and stay safe
(mods you can close this thread now - thank you)


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