# transfer of site to son and girlfriend



## bosco1 (22 Aug 2005)

my boyfriend and I have just got full planning permission on a site from his father. 
Now his father is gonna transfer the site to him, but we also want to include my name on this too. what is the best way to do this without having to pay CGT? the site will be for our house , and is under the threshold of €254,000


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## DarraghDuane (23 Aug 2005)

I think that having your name on the transfer will cause problems for CGT, CAT (gift tax) and stamp duty. There are reliefs for transfers of sites to children under CGT and stamp duty legislation, not sure about CAT and not bothered to check it out. With the CGT and stamp duty reliefs the transfer of the site has to be to a child and cannot be to a child and their spouse or girlfriend, although if the child was married they could take the site themselves and then transfer into joint names without any CGT or stamp duty. As well as not getting the stamp duty relief, your boyfriend would miss out on the stamp duty consanguinity relief which would halve the stamp duty payable by him on the site as he would need to be taking the site on his own to avail of this. So, all in all, I think the boyfriend's parents would have CGT of 20% of the gain, you would have CAT (presume the boyfriend hasn't used up his CAT threshold) but the CGT can be offset against the CAT, hopefully eliminating CAT and you and your boyfriend would have stamp duty of 9%. If the boyfriend took the site alone all these taxes would be avoidable.


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## polaris (23 Aug 2005)

Myself and my fiancee are in an identical situation to this. Our solicitor has advised that the site remain in my name only for the reasons listed by DarraghDuane.Apparently, most banks/building societies will accept this arrangement when we apply for a joint mortgage to cover the building costs. We'll find out for sure anyhow in the next week or so when we make our mortgage application. 

Again, according to our solicitor, my (by then) wife's name can be added on to the site deeds *three *years after the initial transfer of the site from my father without incurring any stamp duty and (for my father) CGT penalties.


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## DarraghDuane (24 Aug 2005)

I think the 3 year CGT clawback only occurs if you transfer the site to anybody other than your spouse, so my understanding is that you could take the site today, marry tomorrow and transfer to your spouse tomorrow without any CGT clawback. Also, if there was a CGT clawback it is you who would be accountable for it, as opposed to your father, albeit that it is he who has obtained the relief. No 3 year rule for stamp duty.


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## ANC (24 Aug 2005)

i'm kind of in a similar situation.

my wife's father has a site in which he applied for and received full planning permission in his son's name.

now he has said we can have the site to build a house.

how should we approach the change of name from father to daughter of the site & from brother to sister of the planning application?
Thanks!


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## DarraghDuane (24 Aug 2005)

Father disposes of site to daughter, no CGT if site not greater than 254k in value. Daughter transfers site into joint names, I don't think this causes a clawback of the CGT relief, but you will need to check. Stamp duty relief on transfer of site to daughter, she then transfers into joint names, no stamp duty and no clawback of the relief. CAT? None on t/f to daughter, assuming she hasn't exceeded her threshold (somewhere between 460k and 480k, someone who knows might confirm), could be gift-splitting implications, i.e. where A transfers to B and B transfers to C within a certain timeframe there is deemed to be a gift from A to C to "stranger" CAT thresholds would apply. As stated earlier, not sure if there is a CAT relief for transfer of site to child. All for general, but maybe you can run this by your solicitor for their view.


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## Vanilla (25 Aug 2005)

Really depends on the value of the site, I can see only CAT implications on the further transfer between husband and wife.


In relation to the planning permission, it doesnt matter in whose name it is, the only issue would be if there was one of those rural resettlement clauses, in which case you would want to check the wording of it, and be sure you would qualify in stead of your brother in law.


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## ANC (25 Aug 2005)

Thanks DarraghDuane & Vanilla!!

by the way if i think the site is worth €120,000 or €150,000 (ie. well below the limit) do i just do nothing? or do i need to get a professional valuation for CGT purposes to prove that the site is worth < €254,000

also if there are likely CAT implications of a transfer of the site from my wife's name into joint names couldn't we just leave the site in my wife's name?


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## Vanilla (25 Aug 2005)

> by the way if i think the site is worth €120,000 or €150,000 (ie. well below the limit) do i just do nothing? or do i need to get a professional valuation for CGT purposes to prove that the site is worth < €254,000




It has been my experience that sometimes the revenue will accept the transferees value, sometimes they will seek a valuation from a professional.


> also if there are likely CAT implications of a transfer of the site from my wife's name into joint names couldn't we just leave the site in my wife's name?


 
Yes indeed. As long as you are not under pressure from the bank to put it in joint names ( where there is a mortgage), this would be ideal. In three years it could then be transferred into joint names if you wish ( although if there is a mortgage the bank will have to join in).


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## ANC (25 Aug 2005)

thanks again Vanilla.

regarding the transfer of site to my wife's name do we have to notify Revenue of the transfer?

would we require a solicitor in order to transfer the site into my wife's name? what does it actually entail, is there a deed in the land registry or something that has my father in laws name on it currently?


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## Vanilla (25 Aug 2005)

> regarding the transfer of site to my wife's name do we have to notify Revenue of the transfer?




Yes, any transfer of land needs to go to the revenue commmissioners regardless of whether or not it is exempt from stamp duty.



> would we require a solicitor in order to transfer the site into my wife's name? what does it actually entail, is there a deed in the land registry or something that has my father in laws name on it currently?


 
Yes, unless you are competent to do it yourself. There is probably either a deed with your fathers name on it or he is registered as owner in the Land REgistry. His family solicitors will probably know or be able to find out. The solicitor will draw up transfer documentation for signature, your father in law will need independant legal advice, and the solicitor involved will send the deeds to the revenue and then to either the land registry or the registry of deeds to put it in your wifes name.


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## ANC (25 Aug 2005)

perfect. that explains everything.

sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again Vanilla.


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## polaris (25 Aug 2005)

ANC, we got an auctioneering firm to do the valuation of our site for the Revenue. As we already have planning permission, we also got them to determine the expected value of the finished house+site as banks will need this value for the mortgage application.

Expect to pay about €150 if you go the professional valuation route.


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