# Failed by banks, ombudsman, regulator and Central bank



## Bronte (19 Oct 2017)

http://www.independent.ie/business/...-to-go-to-court-by-central-bank-36242702.html

How many on here would agree that ordinary people in Ireland have been failed by the above.  It's laughable that the Central Bank won't take action and instead expects Joe Soap to trek over to the four gold mines to take on the top legal firms in the country who are all clients of the biggest and most powerful institutions in the state - the discredited banks.

Only about two weeks ago a senior judge mentioned that the courts system is not available to ordinary people because of the prohibitive costs.

See how the likes of heroic Padriac Kissane has been battling for years for the little guy in the face of institutional stonewalling. Of a regulator asleep at the wheel and pensioned off into king style retirement.  Of politicians doing nothing, I found it insulting to hear Leo Varadkar speak this week on the matter, like we believe he'll do anything.  Of running an impossible odds case with the previous ombudsman (two cases myself).  Of receiving the most bureaucratic designed to drive you insance correspondance from banks (been there too).  A systematic system designed by banks to wear you down.  Of a new 'friendlier' ombudsman, ha.  Like that makes it ok then. 

And even if you do get somewhere, you get further diddled with a high tracker.  Or derisory 'compensation' that would hardly pay for a holiday never mind make up for years of hell. 

How many broken families, how many emigrants, how many suicides is enough.


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## tigger45 (19 Oct 2017)

It is dispiriting to watch this coverage today
basically the CB is saying write to the banks and then the ombudsman and go to court, we'll write to them too, but we can do nothing for the individual in the face of the biggest financial scandal in the country.


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## Lightening (19 Oct 2017)

So disappointed listening to the Central Bank.  They have no intention of doing anything about the two lenders who refuse to deem impacted those that the Central Bank deem as impacted.

The Central Bank were supposed to have the final say on this.


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## Banking17 (19 Oct 2017)

Missed morning session. Cant believe im seeing this.

Customers such as I have been. complaining  to Banks for 2 years and totally ignored. CB are copied and aware of this.

Where is their power or concern .Time for them to get real on this.


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## elbo (19 Oct 2017)

so what are we left with, Court? who has the time or the money.....ooh sure the government is going to sort it all out now, sure we'll be grand then so....


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## moneymakeover (19 Oct 2017)

Am I correct thinking


The CB is asking the banks to make final call
The customers deemed "not impacted" will go to the ombudsman
The ombudsman has the power to impose a decision on the banks ie reverse their opinion
The CB has the full list of affected customers

In time eg march April we will win back tracker


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## Onceagain (19 Oct 2017)

Wow. How depressing. I am shattered at this point.


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## Miakk (19 Oct 2017)

I have already been through the FSO process , albeit not under the current ombudsman, and am still drained, disheartened and smarting from the experience. 
I can’t afford legal action. 

If the Central Bank can’t do anything more, the customers are just playthings in the hands of the banks, there is zero consequence or incentive for them. 

For all the recent grandstanding by politicians, everyone in power is letting us down.


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## Steven Barrett (19 Oct 2017)

If this was in the UK, the FSA would come down on the banks like a ton of bricks. The banks here must be laughing at the impotent Central Bank doing nothing again. They were asleep at the wheel when the banks here collapsed and have decided to let the banks run roughshod over customers on tracker mortgages while doing absolutely nothing. 

And all of us who work in financial services have to pay these people every year, including a recent increase to pay for increased funding levels to their defined benefit pension scheme. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Joanne Heeney (19 Oct 2017)

I think all the customers affected should stand together and stop paying their mortgage and then see what happens ! Bet you there will be some movement then.


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## Gen360 (19 Oct 2017)

The Central Bank should be given the power to force the banks to stop taking any further payments from any mortgage holder that they deem impacted, that will speed things up. Absolutely exhausted by this fiasco.


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## Gavin77 (19 Oct 2017)

From what I took from it the cental bank didn't want any more power they are passing the buck back to the ombudsman. ...which I have no clue where that leave us who the ombudsman already said no to. I thought today was the start of clarity seeing what the plan was. Seeing authority, deadlines ect. I am baffled. I think I had hope in central bank listening to padraic kissanne speak of them. I fail to see them in the same light as he does. The only one smiling and rubbing their hands together are the banks. Unless I'm missing something.... ? I think the conclusion that kbc are not playing ball is more than accurate so what's next? What can we do?


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## james j (19 Oct 2017)

We need to come as one and try create a run on worst bank to show who is paying who. No mortgage payments no lodgement and no savings. Pick one bank and close it. The leftovers will change!


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## Omega143 (19 Oct 2017)

Stop paying your mortgage . If you have a contract , it was broken by the banks


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## EbsLoannotrafor (19 Oct 2017)

What about Europe and the role of European regulation , I think this needs to go to Europe otherwise no one cares and will do what te banks already have gone ignore people in the right to get away with it .


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## EbsLoannotrafor (19 Oct 2017)

What about Europe and the role of European regulation , I think this needs to go to Europe otherwise no one cares and will do what the banks already have done  ignore people in the right to get away with it .


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## Sligolive (19 Oct 2017)

I agree that the Central Bank should be given more powers as an emergency measure with regard to pre 2013 bank activities. I accept it may be GUBU but it is in response to a Gu BU period in recent Irish History regarding fallout from an economic collapse in our country!


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## Leighlinboy (19 Oct 2017)

Tv3 if u can stomach more debate !


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## odyssey06 (20 Oct 2017)

The Central Bank is not fit for purpose, and is abdicating its responsibilities. I get the impression the current Governor doesn't want any involvement with this, doesn't want any more powers, wants all the little people to go away so he can go back to crunching numbers.


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

Odyssey06 

I absolutely totally agree with your "in a nut shell comments"

Are BOI and KBC customers going to sit by now and let Lane push us all aside 
"We Deem you impacted but the bank says your not impacted" the Central Bank were supposed to have the FINAL SAY" it was not supposed to be the "banks" final decision. This situation has now been changed by LANE. 

Lane has asked KBC "come back to us by the end of the month if you change your mind"

What on earth is going on here? 

It's not acceptable to all these customers who are impacted. 

Why at this stage in the Central Bank tracker examination should some who are impacted be forced to go to the Ombudsman and the courts ??while Other customers of other banks deemed impacted be put back on the Tracker rates with immediate effect and receive redress and compensation. Where is the justice in this.?? 

This needs to be highlighted in the media that this position that the Central Bank is now taking is totally unacceptable and unjust. A complete and utter failure of the whole Central Bank Tracker Examination.

Anyone who is impacted in these banks should write to the finance committee and complain about how the Central Bank has changed its tune. 

Lame is passing the book.

 I'm totally outraged that the stonewalling of KBC of not only the Irish Parliament but also of the Central Bank in the whole tracker debacle has now now gone in their favour. This in itself is am absolute scandal and MR Lane should be ashamed of his wimpish actions.


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## TLO (20 Oct 2017)

Interesting article in today's Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...arges-against-tracker-scandal-banks-1.3262366

So, what happens if everybody impacted walked into their local Garda station and started a conversation along the lines of:

"I would like to make a criminal complaint and I would like a referral to the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau".
_"What about?"_
"Offences under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud offences) Act".


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## SaySomething (20 Oct 2017)

Ask @notabene as she can explain it better than I. However, without 'mens rea' a specific, provable criminal intent, they won't open a case. It's very easy to suggest that customers go to the Gardaí or to court. The reality however is far different, the cost of going to court is prohibitive for the vast majority of affected customers. Nevermind the fact that most cases would be adjourned pending the outcome of the tracker examination. Going to the Gardaí and the ODCE is ineffective also. We are caught every which way here.


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## odyssey06 (20 Oct 2017)

They should make Lane the next Garda Commissioner, performance was so inept and showed such disdain for responsibilities to citizens it reminded me of Callinan's "disgusting" one.


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## notabene (20 Oct 2017)

You need to prove mens rea - that they intended to defraud customers & actus reus - that they actually did defraud customers to be successful in a criminal prosecution

now you can look at evidence there at present and say yes to both but the problem is that you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in court which is a very high bar - You would have to prove that there was no other reasonable explanation why it could have happened. And while we might not be happy with that as an affected customer, at the moment there isn't enough evidence to support that.  It is a huge cost & use of resources and they wont' do that if they don't have a reasonable chance of winning the case. It would make a mockery of it and also they can't go back for a second go if the first doesn't work. So for all of those reasons until better evidence were to come to light there really isn't much hope of a prosecution.

In regards to my own case, I spoke with both the Gardai in terms of fraud and the ODCE regarding fradulent trading under the Companies Acts and it really wasn't feasible with the evidence presented at present


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## Wonder (20 Oct 2017)

I think what Mr lane and central bank are doing with kbc and bank of Ireland is right They the 'central bank'  can now go into these banks and get the evidence they need to prove that they committed fraud as we all know they did. From dealing with kbc we all know they can't be trusted missing documents not been offered the rates we should have been offered change of wording on contracts when trying to get interested only they did it all and it will now be proved by the central bank.


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## Foxy007 (20 Oct 2017)

Hey new to the forum guys,
Been reading all this with interest as back in 2014 I got a letter from bank suddenly offering us a tracker ....We were in dire straits at the time. I had just lost my job, we were in a rental due to pyrite and I was losing the will to live from sheer stress. There were also other horrendous issue affecting us but money and the house are the relevant points here. The letter got me so annoyed.  Rang the bank of course and practically snapped the tracker offer up.  Then I smelt a rat. Several calls and letters later I got an answer as to why we were offered the tracker out of the blue ...... I had all day every day to deal with pushback and I am well able for the blather that people safely at the other end of a phone try to give you, when you ask a direct question that they don't want to answer.  I got a copy of our offer letter and our actual contract.  The simple truth was we were due a tracker all along but were never given it. In the initial mortgage meetings I asked at least 3 times about a tracker and was bluntly told we were not entitled to one. Contract clearly stated otherwise. I asked for the money back and got what the bank were willing to give at the time... I also was given to understand that ours was a one off but clearly not. No apology for the 'mistake", the pain and the crazy we went through for 8 or 9 years ..... the stress and worry. Horrified that this has caused people to lose their homes ... we were close to losing ours too. I hope the banks in question are forced to give these people new homes and enough compensation to make life bearable again. I was in fact, questioned as to why I might want to take 10% of this payment (and very unsure how they arrived at the sum) in cash, as if I was crazy not to want it all back in the mortgage account.  Clearly whoever I was taking to didn't twig we were in the middle of a recession and this was intact my money, so my decision.

There is a huge difference that I truly hope is called out here.  People deserve to get their over payment back but also be compensated for years of overpaying during a recession where that money would have made a difference.


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## joe351980 (20 Oct 2017)

Angers me when I here 'regulated by the central bank of Ireland' on the radio.


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## tigger45 (20 Oct 2017)

We will need to organise and start to speak out. One of their tools against us is our slience and our unwillingness to 'make a scene'.
they are bullies in this and bullies thrive on the silence and the shame of victims. 
We did nothing wrong. 
It is time for us all to have a good long think about what we are prepared to share and how and start a process. 
Where do we go for help? PK can only help so many people but where do we even go for info on how to proceed?
Where is the checklist of what do and how to do it? 
Where is the list of people who can represent you and how? 
How do you go about contacting your TD or minister?


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie
michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
rose.conwaywalsh@oireachtas.ie
pearse.doherty@oireachtas.ie

etc etc.

contact Notabene and SaySomething re contacting journalists
Contact Padraic Kissane

Ring the newspapers they will put you in contact with the journalists

Go into your local td office

Everyone thinks everyone else will do it! Thats the Irish way!


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## tigger45 (20 Oct 2017)

To be clear I wasnt asking, I was putting a list of things that would be useful for people in this position to have access to


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## Laramie (20 Oct 2017)

The toxic and incompetent management syndrome is rife in this country. This includes regulators and politicians. Fat cats grabbing from the greasy till and making the rest of us pay for it.


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## SaySomething (20 Oct 2017)

Very, very strong words by Professor Brian Lucey on the News at One on RTÉ Radio One this afternoon. Really recommend you catch it on the podcast.


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

Thanks SaySomething!


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## Banking17 (20 Oct 2017)

Lightening said:


> john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie
> michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
> rose.conwaywalsh@oireachtas.ie
> pearse.doherty@oireachtas.ie
> ...


Useful I think to go Political particularly with all Government TDs and Ministers' in your constituency before Banks meet Minister for Finance next week


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

agree Banking17! Watched 6 o'clock  RTE news! 

Am thinking (and hoping) for KBC and BOI this might all backfire

What goes around comes around!


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## SaySomething (20 Oct 2017)

The FF Bill being tabled next week: https://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37073&&CatID=62


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## TheBigShort (20 Oct 2017)

Bronte said:


> How many broken families, how many emigrants, how many suicides is enough.



It doesn't matter, they dont 
 count. 

We are part of a centralised command banking economy. Democracy is window dressing, capitalism is sold out on the notion of 'too big to fail'.
Despite the bailouts, the amounts required which were initially understated by the banks, from the top of government, through the media, we were told 'we all went a bit mad!' 'We all partied!!". 
And the subservient cheerleaders stood up for them. Apparently someone who took a once in a lifetime hefty mortgage was to be equally culpable for their irresponsible borrowing as the bank who lent thousands of mortgages every week.

Liars.

That was then, this is now. Where are the cheerleaders for the banks now? The ones that propagate the fraudulent notion that every borrower is equally culpable for any transactions they enter into with the banks?
Where are those cheerleaders now?

It's fraud. On a massive scale - once again.
People are dead, families destroyed, businesses ruined.


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## delsalmon (20 Oct 2017)

Have to say I've been furious over the past week or so.
I've emailed every member of the Dail over the past couple of days with my story, and how the CB stats that include myself as being gone through redress and compensated are a farce, especially the 3.25% debacle.
I was pleasantly surprised with the dozen or so responses I got.


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## peemac (20 Oct 2017)

Always beware of reading too much in newspaper reports. Whilst Charlie Weston has been good on reporting, the indo always want the sensationalist hysterical headline that usually bears no resemblance to the truth.

The CB has clearly stated that it will pursue all banks to the maximum of its powers, but there may be some customers that will still be disappointed and they will still have the opportunity to go to ombudsman / courts and the six year rule won't apply.

If anything it means that even after the end of the process,  there will still be options for people that were not previously available due to time lapse.

But indo turns this upside down the way only the indo can and creates a hysterical headline. Its a long time since I believed any indo headline due to this policy of sensationalism.

What I see as one of the most positive aspects of current interest is that both Leo Varadkar and Pascal Donohue are of a age where they understand the issues from a first hand position whereas the previous holders of office, a mortgage was a distant memory.


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## delsalmon (20 Oct 2017)

http://www.oireachtas.ie/members/mobile/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=32&disp=mem


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## Stitcher (20 Oct 2017)

Peemac,  
a very astute observation. I too am reassured that young  FG are taking this seriously. I believe the CB too are vehemently on our side. I support them all the way as they are forcing banks to deal with this issue. I think that public pressure will help so let's keep the pressure on. I'd love to picket the banks and maybe we should be considering such public action? We have momentum now. Let's capitalize on it.


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## Timeforaction (20 Oct 2017)

What angers me on top of everything is that the money the banks are withholding from us, OUR money, is still sitting with the banks. So every month that goes by, they are gaining interest on it. They are the ones gaining interest on the money that should be sitting in OUR accounts


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## Banking17 (21 Oct 2017)

Radio 1 now. Sunday Business Post covering tomorrow......


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## Threadser (21 Oct 2017)

Timeforaction said:


> What angers me on top of everything is that the money the banks are withholding from us, OUR money, is still sitting with the banks. So every month that goes by, they are gaining interest on it. They are the ones gaining interest on the money that should be sitting in OUR accounts


This makes me so angry too. The compensation being offered of 10/12 % of the total amount overcharged is a paltry amount. There should be credit card type rates of interest charged to the banks for every month they hold onto our money. That would hasten their repayment plans for sure!


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## ryflava (21 Oct 2017)

Absolutely, we have to now keep the pressure on while we have all this in the media & while it's at the forefront of everyone's minds..The banks are hoping it will just go away Not a chance


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## peemac (21 Oct 2017)

Timeforaction said:


> What angers me on top of everything is that the money the banks are withholding from us, OUR money, is still sitting with the banks. So every month that goes by, they are gaining interest on it. They are the ones gaining interest on the money that should be sitting in OUR accounts


Its a mute point. But money market interest rates are currently negative, so they are not gaining any additional interest. If anything,  they are losing a tiny bit every day.


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## notabene (21 Oct 2017)

@peemac they are very low, but would the bank be that generous in terms of compensating them were you in arrears to them? 

They are preventing you from accessing your money over the last decade and continuing to do so


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## Mark Watson (21 Oct 2017)

What about instead of fining the banks and institutions the state sets an additional interest rate set at the unapproved overdraft costs from the day that the tracker was removed till the day of restitution. Add that to the promised capital return etc. 
However the question still remains. Will Ulster Bank pay up before Christmas or well into 2018?


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## peemac (21 Oct 2017)

Mark Watson said:


> What about instead of fining the banks and institutions the state sets an additional interest rate set at the unapproved overdraft costs from the day that the tracker was removed till the day of restitution. Add that to the promised capital return etc.
> However the question still remains. Will Ulster Bank pay up before Christmas or well into 2018?


I like that idea very much. And quite a logical proposal.


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## delsalmon (21 Oct 2017)

Easiest solution. Government and CB grow a pair. The accounts effected, mortgage slate completely cleared. Let the banks take a good ol hit. The banks wouldn't dare try pull a fast one again. 
Failing that, Padraic Kissane mentioned on Pat Kenny's show that the margin should be calculated from before the fixed rate. Rightly so.


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## Lightening (21 Oct 2017)

*Cliff Taylor Irish times quote*

*Penalising punters*
In Ireland, the odds always seems to be stacked against the punter. Consumer protection in Ireland does not protect the consumer. Not far off two years after the Central Bank probe began, most of those affected have not even got the money they were overcharged back, and some have still to be restored to their proper interest rate. A significant number – at least 7,000 – have not yet even been told they are affected. The Central Bank just does not seem to have the ability – or the powers – to get this done in any kind of reasonable timescale. We are in the land of the “process” and the process goes on interminably as lawyers dot their i’s and cross their t’s.


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## roan (22 Oct 2017)

Daniel McConnell 
Irish examiner Saturday 21/10

"My anger, my outrage is directed not just at the scumbags in the banks who as a matter of policy moved people off their supposedly legally-binding tracker mortgages.

Those crooks should be hung, drawn and quartered for what they did, but my ire and that of thousands of people across the land is also directed at the toothless, spineless state officials and politicians who enabled them to do so"

Sign up for free account;


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## tigger45 (22 Oct 2017)

Also like this idea very much
This must be resolved in a way that puts the banks on their arses like it has done to us
We will need to see the banks hit so hard they never contemplate taking action against the consumer again


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## Sophrosyne (22 Oct 2017)

Bronte said:


> How many on here would agree that ordinary people in Ireland have been failed by the above.



And that wouldn't be today nor yesterday, Bronte.

This article from the Irish Times dated *7 May 2004* shows a history of ethical failure in Ireland’s banking system.

“For many consumers, the most disturbing aspect of AIB's admission on foreign exchange overcharging will be that it comes at the end of a long line of startling prudential and ethical failures in the Irish banking system.”

“The most prominent of these, and arguably the one that brought the Republic into a new era of financial clean hands, was the Ansbacher scandal. This was a messy affair and one that drew in the top brass of Irish business between the early 1970s and 1997, when it was unearthed by the McCracken Tribunal.”

“Soon after Ansbacher had opened the doors to financial scandals in the banking sector, it emerged in 1998 that National Irish Bank (NIB) had marketed an unauthorised investment scheme to more than 400 account-holders, many of whom used the scheme to evade tax. Among the employees involved was Mayo TD, Ms Beverly Flynn. The bank was also investigated for the systematic overcharging of interest.”

“The next big scandal to emerge was the bogus non-resident account affair that came to prominence when it was investigated by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). This was a story of tens of thousands of ordinary people who opened accounts under the name of an overseas relative and used them to hide money from the Revenue. The PAC found that the banks, including AIB, had in some cases actively encouraged the move.”


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

Pat kenny show in 20 mins tracker mortgage discussion


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

Correction 
Ciara Kelly soon Newstalk


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## Wardy7 (23 Oct 2017)

I was just on.....nerves


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

David Hall IMO has said on newstalk today that The Central Bank are toothless and are allowing the banks to set the agenda! 

"The Governer of the Central Bank is leaving full control with banks over compensation and address" 

"It shows a concerning naivety" he says


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## roan (23 Oct 2017)

Mr Lane and the central bank are wimps!!
Once more in Paddyland the little people are left high and dry!!


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

Typo "address" should read REFUND.


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## SaySomething (23 Oct 2017)

Well done @Wardy7 !!!


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## peemac (23 Oct 2017)

roan said:


> Mr Lane and the central bank are wimps!!
> Once more in Paddyland the little people are left high and dry!!


I don't think name calling is warranted - might suit other websites, but thankfully AAM is usually free of such behavior.

Maybe understand that until Philip Lane took over at the CB  the banks had walked away from the issue and were effectively hoem and dry. It was his delving into the issue and his deciusion to face the banks head on that has got us to this stage.

If anything, he is the forst CB head that went against the banks and most people who have followed this for years would be congratulating him whulst wishijng it could be done quicker.

Remember the banks have the very very very best legal teams in the country and they have fired a lot of shots at the CB and yet they the CB have fought back.

So unless you have real insight to what has been going on behind the scenes and can give examples of "wimpness", your comment is totally unwarranted


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

I think people are upset, angry and very very anxious for news!

I wouldn't use the word "wimp" but I think it has to be agreed there is a degree of "weakness" in the Central Banks dealing with the matter.

Let's see what happens at the end of the month to see if he has made the right call!


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

Well done Paraic on the 6 o'clock news this evening. Once again you led the charge on behalf of the people! however deeply concerned for the 13,000 already confirmed impacted who it appears now have a battle ahead! " The banks will try every means to remove those accounts from the option of getting their tracker back ! It will be debatable!!"

"The Atmosphere at the time, marketing material, promotionional material the STANDARD VARIABLE RATE this period" was the "TRACKER RATE" 

KBC like the other banks are still resisting! NO CHANGE IN THE BANKS ATTITUDES. The resistance is all still there! "This evening"

Padraic has made a lot of progress with AIB which is the only bank that seems to be cooperating. 

"They have destroyed Their reputations

Their words are futile "the bank of you".. (mentions others)

"If there is any confusion there are laws in place since 1993 if there is any confusion the law favours the lessor party"

At least 26,000 accounts impacted and the scope widening!

"Ireland is now being looked on by the financial services industry. Their reputation in Ireland is being destroyed right at a time when Brexit is occurring. There is a lot of banks looking at coming into the country they are seeing what is going on here"

It's astonishing that the banks are threatening legal action against the Central Bank


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## Lightening (23 Oct 2017)

Correction deeply concerned for the accounts outside 13,000


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## SaySomething (24 Oct 2017)

Is anybody interested in signing an online petition? If we were all to get our friends and family to sign, then share on social media, we should garner a significant number of signatories to present to the Finance Minister & the Central Bank?


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## TheBigShort (24 Oct 2017)

Lightening said:


> Ireland is now being looked on by the financial services industry. Their reputation in Ireland is being destroyed right at a time when Brexit is occurring. There is a lot of banks looking at coming into the country they are seeing what is going on here"
> 
> It's astonishing that the banks are threatening legal action against the Central Bank



I wouldn't be overly concerned about our banking reputation. Basically this corruption is pretty much global, or at least in the West. 
Just do a search on banking scandals for Deutsche, HSBC, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc, etc 
This is the system. Ireland is in no way unique, our banks are simply part of the cartel, playing by the cartels rules. 
Fintan O Toole has a piece on it in today's IT.


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## odyssey06 (24 Oct 2017)

Lightening said:


> It's astonishing that the banks are threatening legal action against the Central Bank



I also find it astonishing that the Central Bank (with all its resources both financial and legal) appears to be reluctant to be drawn into legal action against the banks... yet the Governor goes on record to say that customers unhappy with the process can resort to legal action?
What support will the Central Bank give to such customers?
Nada?


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## tigger45 (24 Oct 2017)

What would the petition say?


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## Lightening (24 Oct 2017)

SaySomething said:


> Is anybody interested in signing an online petition? If we were all to get our friends and family to sign, then share on social media, we should garner a significant number of signatories to present to the Finance Minister & the Central Bank?



I think this is a very good idea!

I read recently about an Irish Lady who started on online petition for the French Lease Back Scheme. 
Irish people that had been *mis-sold* french properties.
I believe they have 3,000 Plus signatures and now the CCPC and Brian Hayes MEP has taken it to the European Parliament and European Commission. It is being investigated at the highest level.

I was surprised to see no customers standing outside the Department of Finance yesterday with banners etc.!!


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## SaySomething (24 Oct 2017)

Lightening said:


> I was surprised to see no customers standing outside the Department of Finance yesterday with banners etc.!!


There was somebody shouting 'shame' at KBC or BOI (can't remember who) but honestly most of us are actually IN WORK to pay off the darn mortgage.


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## moneymakeover (24 Oct 2017)

The boards of directors I believe have customer representatives? And there are directors with responsibility for corporate governance and ethics?

In a situation where the customers are forgotten, disregarded these representatives must take some responsibility. They should be removed.

@SaySomething
Can we identify these directors and have a *petition* to have them removed?

In reality of course it's the chief executive and chairman who drive policy. They are responsible.

Quote from Bank of Ireland code of conduct:


*Customers*

‘We treat customers fairly.’

Customers are at the heart of what we do.

We act with integrity in all our dealings with customers. We aim to maintain long-term relationships with customers. To do this, we take time to fully understand their needs and help them make informed choices. We make it clear what the risks are of choosing specific options and are open and honest about our prices, fees and charges.

•  We design products that are easy   to understand and simple to use,   and charge for them in a fair and   reasonable way.

•  We consider the effect on customers at the earliest possible point in all our decision-making, and act accordingly.

•  We communicate with customers in a clear, open and honest way so that they can understand what we mean in all our communications with them.
•  We listen carefully to what customers say to make sure we give them products and services that best meet their needs.
•  We always try to be easy to do business with in person, over the phone and online.
•  We protect the confidentiality of customer information collected by us and make sure it is only used for the purpose we collected it for.
•  We take responsibility for putting things right if we don’t meet a customer’s expectations first time, and promptly let customers know what we are doing in response to complaints they raise.


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## moneymakeover (24 Oct 2017)

Is it fair to say it's the non executive directors who are the overseers of fairness and ethics?

Aib board



> *Current Board Members*
> 
> 
> *Richard Pym – Chairman – Non-Executive Director*
> ...



BOI board



> Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland
> 
> 
> [broken link removed]
> ...


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## SaySomething (24 Oct 2017)

To be fair I don't see that a petition to remove directors will work because not all affected customers are with Irish owned banks. What about KBC & Ulster Bank customers?
Listening to Minister Donohoe in the Oireachtas right now.
Suggest that a petition to hold a public enquiry might be better?


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## moneymakeover (24 Oct 2017)

I will consider writing to each director reminding them of their responsibility to customers

Apparently directors can be held personally responsible for company actions

*Corporate Governance: Principles, Policies, and Practices*
By R. I. (Bob) Tricker, Robert Ian Tricker


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## tigger45 (24 Oct 2017)

Anyone going to the dail tomorrow for private members time? FF submitting a bill.


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## Banking17 (24 Oct 2017)

Thanks so much Say Something for your perseverance and leadership on this issue.


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## SaySomething (24 Oct 2017)

Banking17 said:


> Thanks so much Say Something for your perseverance and leadership on this issue.


Thanks a mill. Feel like I'm repeating myself across all the media this past week! However I found quite a bit of what I said on Séan O'Rourke this morning was repeated in the Dáil later on in the day so it appears it's being listened to.


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## MrBanks (24 Oct 2017)

SaySomething said:


> To be fair I don't see that a petition to remove directors will work because not all affected customers are with Irish owned banks. What about KBC & Ulster Bank customers?
> Listening to Minister Donohoe in the Oireachtas right now.
> Suggest that a petition to hold a public enquiry might be better?[/QUO
> 
> I agree a petition for this purpose would work best. I also think sitting in the bank with a sign stating "tracker victim, waiting 9 years for my money back" would work. Just sitting there for the day until you get answers specific to ur case. I am up for this.


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## BlueSky (24 Oct 2017)

@SaySomething  thanks from me too! You were superb on Today with SOR!  Here's the link for anyone who hasn't had the chance. You were so clear and precise about the compensation issue - and about the fact that we want our money repaid now, and they can figure out the compensation issue after that.

[broken link removed]


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## BlueSky (24 Oct 2017)

tigger45 said:


> Anyone going to the dail tomorrow for private members time? FF submitting a bill.



I can't make it to the Dáil as am working, but for anyone who's around, Private Members' Business is being discussed tomorrow, Wednesday, from 6.30-8.30 pm.

Here's a link to the FF Private Members' motion which will be up for discussion:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37073&&CatID=62


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## Lightening (24 Oct 2017)

Great article this evening by Miriam Lord Irish times;  "Swindlers List" 

*Halloween horror as banks play wicked game of ‘Trick or Track’*

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.iri...ked-game-of-trick-or-track-1.3267762?mode=amp


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