# Employers want a meeting with me - need advice!



## Amazon (5 Aug 2008)

Hi,

I hope you may be able to offer me some advice... I have been out of work on sick leave with a genuine medical complaint since last March. I have been sending in weekly medical certs from my GP, and I also agreed to see the company doctor, who concurred with my GP's diagnosis. I have also been in contact with my supervisor on several occasions to let them know how I am getting along. (We've always been on good terms.) I've already told them that in line with my GP's expectations, they should expect me back to work at the end of August. I was in a car crash two weeks ago and because of my injuries, my GP has now suggested mid-September as a more realistic timeframe. Pressure has been exerted on me on more than one occasion to come back to work ASAP.

I had a call from the HR department at work last Friday, asking if I would come in for a meeting with a member of HR, my supervisor and my departmental manager. This is scheduled for later this week. The person I spoke to in HR did not elaborate on what the meeting was about. I was overpaid by my employer since I have been out on sick leave, as I was given a month's salary to which I am not entitled. (Their error.) But I have already told them that I will pay this back pretty much immediately. I don't think this will the the focus of the meeting.

Can anyone advise me on what to expect? Should I ask the union rep to attend with me? I am afraid that they are going to broach the possibility of leaving me go or farming me out to another department, because I know our own department is extremely busy and short-staffed in my absence. Surely they would not be within their rights to do this however, if my sick leave has been fully certified? I do intend to return to this job once I'm fully better.


Any thoughts welcome!


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## advisor (5 Aug 2008)

Contact your union rep immediately.  Do not attempt to attend this meeting on your own.  Phone HR back and ask them as to the nature of the meeting and advise them that Joe Bloggs Union Rep will be attending and that it is in order to discuss information with him.  If they won't tell you what meeting is about you could ask union rep to make a call on your behalf outlining reason for meeting being called.


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## WaterSprite (5 Aug 2008)

Is this a large company?  If so, I'd imagine that they would inform you of your right to be accompanied if the meeting was dismissal-related.  Having said that, I think that you shouldn't assume anything, and should contact your union rep.

Whether or not your sick leave is certified does not affect what your employer can legally do.  There is no statutory right to protected sick leave in Ireland.

Your employer could want to outline the potential consequences if you don't return to work in September.  As the date you were to go back moved from mid-August to September, they may want to make this September date more "official" in case it moves again.  They may also want to meet you to reduce your pay while you are on sick leave - I know of some employers that have a sliding scale for "sick pay" as time goes on.

That said, all of the above could be out the window if your union has other arrangements - so you should definitely contact the union rep and see what they advise.  I wouldn't be confrontational with the HR dept though when you call to clarify the purpose of the meeting.  If you do want to go back to this job after your sick leave, the good will of both parties will be key.

Let us know what happens and good luck
Sprite


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## Amazon (5 Aug 2008)

Thank you very much for such detailed advice. Yes, it is a large company. 

I will ask the union rep to come with me, if only for the reason that's good to have an independent third party witness the discussion. 

I haven't received pay while out on leave so I've been depending on social welfare.


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## Mpsox (5 Aug 2008)

Suggest you need to prepare before the meeting. If there are defined absence procedures, you need to check that you have followed them. eg, if they say you have to ring in once a fortnight, did you do that.

In terms of them farming you out to another department, unless your contract says otherwise, they may be perfectly entitled to do so, especially if the move is reasonable. 

You should also inform HR in advance that your union rep will be in attendance. I would also suggest that you contact HR and also ask again why the meeting is being held and if they refuse to tell you, ask them why not.


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## MsGinger (5 Aug 2008)

Not sure if this info has a basis in law, but I was recently told by DETE that an employee with more than one year's service could bring a case for unfair dismissal if they were dismissed due to sick leave.


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## shipibo (5 Aug 2008)

Bring rep as witness, inform company of his/her participation before meeting, would not get too stressed about looking for outlines.


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## WaterSprite (5 Aug 2008)

MsGinger said:


> Not sure if this info has a basis in law, but I was recently told by DETE that an employee with more than one year's service could bring a case for unfair dismissal if they were dismissed due to sick leave.



Being out on sick leave doesn't protect you from dismissal per se.  If you have more than one year's service, you are protected by the UDA so warnings, notice etc. have to be given.  But an employer can indeed dismiss someone on sick leave if they are not there to do their job - they just have to follow the required procedures.  It's not that "being sick" is a protected status in and of itself (like being married for e.g.) but any dismissal after one year's service is automatically deemed unfair unless shown otherwise.

Sprite


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## MsGinger (6 Aug 2008)

Thanks for that info Watersprite, it's very interesting.

So - what if an employee was off sick for an extended period.  You warn them that they must return but they cannot get clearance from the doctor to return to work.  Can you then dismiss them?


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## WaterSprite (6 Aug 2008)

MsGinger said:


> Thanks for that info Watersprite, it's very interesting.
> 
> So - what if an employee was off sick for an extended period.  You warn them that they must return but they cannot get clearance from the doctor to return to work.  Can you then dismiss them?



Yes, the employer would give a deadline for a return to work (or ask for a date from the employee).  If e.g. the employee gave a date and the employer agreed to that and the employee didn't return to work on that date, then the employer could then ask for another date for the employee to commit to and give a warning that, if the employee didn't make that second date, they could be dismissed.  Depending on the circumstances, one/two/three warnings may be appropriate.

 It doesn't work exactly the same as e.g. a performance-related dismissal, but does consist of the "commitment/missing commitment/warning/dismissal" model.  By being out of the office, officially speaking, the employee is in breach of their terms of employment (this sounds harsh but I'm just trying to outline how it fits into the UDA procedures).  The employer must be reasonable, but, if the employee is not available to do his/her job, after reasonable warnings, that employee can be let go without falling foul of the UDA.  It's a tricky balancing act mind you to do it properly.

Sprite


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## tink (8 Aug 2008)

Hi, the same thing happened to a friend of mine and she chose to bring a union rep to the meeting and this totally got the company's back up as they thought she was 'trouble' and then basically stepped up the procedure til she decided to quit cos she was so miserable. I would not suggest bringing a union rep until you know what this meeting is about as you say yourself that you don't know what it is about. If it is what you think then bring one to the next meeting. Companies get scared in this situation when reps are brought in as they just see a legal case looming or something! Just my friends experience in a similar matter !


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## Complainer (9 Aug 2008)

I wouldn't go to the meeting without someone on your side, to even up the numbers and help taking notes. It might be no harm to have a mobile phone with a voice recorder facility in your breast pocket too, to avoid any future disputes about what happened at the meeting.

If your company recognises your union, I really don't think that bringing your rep to the meeting will be seen as 'trouble'. If you work in Ryanair, then maybe.....


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## Petal (9 Aug 2008)

Maybe you could go to the meeting, see what it is about - they might just want to talk things through and get some idea about when you're definitely coming back. I wouldn't bring in a union rep either - it would start the whole thing off on the wrong foot. If you notice the meeting going somewhere troublesome you could always get up and say you'd like to schedule a new time and bring a union representative with you then to protect your interests.


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## yob (9 Aug 2008)

hi amazon,
many years ago i was asked to attend ameeting with my employer,thinking it would be the m.d. and the accountant,and myself i attended,when i arrived the whole board of directors where there,i got quite a shock,and said so,but to be honest thats about all i could say,it was a horific experience and in the end i stood and said i was leaving,and for the meeting to be rescheduled for when i would have legal representation.
there was uproar as to the trouble they had gone to to arrange the meeting and to get everybody there,plus the expense ya ya ya.i said they should have thought of that when deciding not to inform me of the outlay and circumstances of the meeting.
so what should you do,first i'd get back to your h.r. dept,ask why meeting has been called,what will the outline of the meeting be and under what circumstances is it being held and who will be in attendance.
if they are not willing to give you this information,ask how they can expect you to attend a meeting,not knowing anything about it.if they still refuse to inform you,ask would it be exceptable for you to have a union rep' in attendance on your behalf.if they refuse this,i would seek a meeting with union,explaining situation.iwould imageine they will take it from there.


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## Mers1 (12 Aug 2008)

Hi Amazon, 

Did you have the meeting? what was the outcome and did you bring a rep with you?


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## shipibo (12 Aug 2008)

Complainer said:


> It might be no harm to have a mobile phone with a voice recorder facility in your breast pocket too, to avoid any future disputes about what happened at the meeting.



Complainer,

     Any ideas on the legal standing on recorded conversation ... just wondering, as there are many  MP3 / Mobile Phones that have this facility.

     If you stated meeting would be recorded, I believe they would not give permission, so meeting would be recorded with one parties knowledge.



Complainer said:


> If your company recognises your union, I really don't think that bringing your rep to the meeting will be seen as 'trouble'. If you work in Ryanair, then maybe.....




Most companies verbally give you the option of rep, thats when you know you are in trouble !!!! , they can state this in LRC / LC if there is difference in interpretation of meeting, so if advised , take the advice seriously.


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## Complainer (21 Aug 2008)

crumdub12 said:


> Complainer,
> 
> Any ideas on the legal standing on recorded conversation ... just wondering, as there are many  MP3 / Mobile Phones that have this facility.


No idea, I'm afraid.


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