# Logical Budget Suggestions



## ontour (7 Oct 2008)

Tired of listening to the platitudes of the opposition parties, I believe that the collective knowledge of AAM should be able to come up with logical changes for the budget.

Suggestion No.1… means test children’s allowance.  There is no social benefit in giving money to parents who do not require it for the needs of the child.

What else?


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## z103 (7 Oct 2008)

Whatever they do it'll have to be pretty major.
Stuff like 10c on a packet of fags probably won't help too much.

Means testing children's allowance will mean more public sector admin costs, an area that needs to be drastically cut. It will also really annoy voters and mightn't bring in much money.

Maybe something drastic like
1. Nationalise and combine all the Irish banks
2. Irish citizens have to use the new super bank
3. All existing taxes are abolished
4. New tax taken directly from bank accounts.

This will mean 100% tax compliance and we can also get rid of bunches of public sector employees, and the revenue.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

leghorn said:


> Maybe something drastic like
> 1. Nationalise and combine all the Irish banks
> 2. Irish citizens have to use the new super bank
> 3. All existing taxes are abolished
> ...



How do you propose the new tax be calculated?


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## z103 (8 Oct 2008)

A one off percentage of deposit.
5% for business, 10% for people (or whatever respective percentages will plug the hole)


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

A great incentive for everyone to reinvest in our wonderful property market, so


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## Teabag (8 Oct 2008)

Close the Senate. Fire all Senators.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

If the Banks are nationalised what happens to all the pension funds that are invested in them?
What do retiring private sector people do for money?


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## csirl (8 Oct 2008)

Flat rate tax of 15%. No exemptions, no credits, no write offs.


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## frash (8 Oct 2008)

ontour said:


> Tired of listening to the platitudes of the opposition parties, I believe that the collective knowledge of AAM should be able to come up with logical changes for the budget.
> 
> Suggestion No.1… means test children’s allowance. There is no social benefit in giving money to parents who do not require it for the needs of the child.
> 
> What else?


 
Spot the person with either no kids or grown up kids


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## Pique318 (8 Oct 2008)

Get rid of half the councillors in the country (by firing squad preferably  )
Destroy the Unions!
Slash the number of civil & public sector workers (should be easy to do after the unions are gone)
Remove the old motor tax and expand the CO2 version to include all cars.
Reduce taxes/increase incentives for Irish start-ups. We need innovation & indigenous business growth from our own now...not relying on crumbs from foreign multinationals who'll happily pull up sticks when they next best thing to Ireland becomes the best thing.
Introduce a 3rd tax rate. 0-25k 10%, 25-50K 20%, 50k+ 40%.
Introduce property tax on all second properties (logically, if you can afford a second house, you should be well enough off to afford to pay tax on it....definitely if it's sitting empty.
Dump the Metro.
Improve the Rail network and incentivise it's use for freight, rather than road networks.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

Pique318 said:


> Introduce property tax on all second properties (logically, if you can afford a second house, you should be well enough off to afford to pay tax on it....definitely if it's sitting empty.


Yes, that would do wonders for our banking liquidity crisis


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## ontour (8 Oct 2008)

Remove car tax and apply the tax to the fuels.  Collect the tax from 10-20 suppliers rather than 2-3 million vehicles - huge cost savings.

In that way people would be incentivised for using eco-friendly cars rather than just buying eco-friendly cars and continuing to use lots of petrol.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

ontour said:


> Remove car tax and apply the tax to the fuels.  Collect the tax from 10-20 suppliers rather than 2-3 million vehicles - huge cost savings.
> 
> In that way people would be incentivised for using eco-friendly cars rather than just buying eco-friendly cars and continuing to use lots of petrol.



We've been through this one before - rural drivers with no realistic public transport options would be screwed in order to benefit their city cousins, with the lions share of public transport infrastructure.


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## csirl (8 Oct 2008)

> Remove car tax and apply the tax to the fuels. Collect the tax from 10-20 suppliers rather than 2-3 million vehicles - huge cost savings.
> 
> In that way people would be incentivised for using eco-friendly cars rather than just buying eco-friendly cars and continuing to use lots of petrol.


 
We could call it a carbon tax to satisfy our international obligations to tax polluters.



> We've been through this one before - rural drivers with no realistic public transport options would be screwed in order to benefit their city cousins, with the lions share of public transport infrastructure.


 
Taxpayer cannot be expected to pick up the tab for peoples lifestyle choices. Same logic could be applied to a lot of taxes, but you have to look at things in the round and what is best for the country as a whole, not one particular category of person.


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## Pique318 (8 Oct 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> How do you propose the new tax be calculated?





ubiquitous said:


> A great incentive for everyone to reinvest in our wonderful property market, so





ubiquitous said:


> Yes, that would do wonders for our banking liquidity crisis





ubiquitous said:


> We've been through this one before - rural drivers with no realistic public transport options would be screwed in order to benefit their city cousins, with the lions share of public transport infrastructure.



Are you Clubman in disguise ?


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## ontour (8 Oct 2008)

My last one for now !  Put a development levy on airport passengers of €10 to leave the country.  Use this €50m a year to allow the investments in transport links to airports to survive the budget cuts.  This is not a unique idea and has been done in many airports to fund development.

Possibly also increase the duty on wine.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

csirl said:


> Taxpayer cannot be expected to pick up the tab for peoples lifestyle choices



Fair enough, if you agree to scrap government subsidies towards Dublin Bus, DART, Luas etc etc


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

Pique318 said:


> Are you Clubman in disguise ?



I think the disease is spreading


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

ontour said:


> My last one for now !  Put a development levy on airport passengers of €10 to leave the country.  Use this €50m a year to allow the investments in transport links to *airports* to survive the budget cuts.  This is not a unique idea and has been done in many airports to fund development.



er, how many airports, exactly?



> Possibly also increase the duty on wine.


Sainsbury's will love that one


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## TarfHead (8 Oct 2008)

Wow - one person's logical suggestion is a red rag to someone else



> .. means test children’s allowance. There is no social benefit in giving money to parents who do not require it for the needs of the child.


 
and what determines '_do not require it_' ? How do you quantify something subjective such as ability to pay ?



> Nationalise and combine all the Irish banks


 
Right on comrade ! Power to the people ! Create one huge monopoly in which to place all our eggs.



> Close the Senate. Fire all Senators.


 
Set aside the Constitution for the good of the country ? That has worked out well in the past .



> Introduce a 3rd tax rate. 0-25k 10%, 25-50K 20%, 50k+ 40%.


Because people earning 51K are '_rich_' and should be bracketed with people earning 251K  ?



> rural drivers with no realistic public transport options .. peoples lifestyle choices


 
Not sure how to read that one . People who live in rural areas do so out of choice, or that people who live in urban areas do so out of choice ? Either way, it's a fallacious '_argument_'.


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## ontour (8 Oct 2008)

All airports !  There should be investment to improve access all around the country.  I don't discriminate against the rural folk.  They may not know what traffic is but they do have other challenges.

Most people buy wine one or two bottles at a time.  I don't think that it is very price sensitive and a euro on a bottle would not greatly impact sales.

Where is are these restaurants called Sainsbury's that you refer to and what is their wine list like?


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## Mpsox (8 Oct 2008)

Cut the bonues announced last week to the HSE directors/senior managers

Abolish the Senate or if we're going to keep it, at least give it the powers to make it meaninful

Introduce a 3rd higher tax band for salaries/income of say €250kpa+ (and I just pulled that figure out of thin air, it could be set lower/higher).

Stick a € on the price of fags, who cares if the smokers don't like it, it might encourage them to give up

Tax TV3 an additional rate for every freak/reality/foreign soap show they broadcast


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

frash said:


> Spot the person with either no kids or grown up kids



I have three small kids and I agree that it should be means tested.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> We've been through this one before - rural drivers with no realistic public transport options would be screwed in order to benefit their city cousins, with the lions share of public transport infrastructure.


 By the same logic stamp duty should be lower in urban areas.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> I have three small kids and I agree that it should be means tested.



I am a parent myself and would not be too bothered either if it was scrapped. I honestly think that scrapping child benefit altogether would be a better idea than means testing it, if parents' welfare allowances were adjusted accordingly to compensate. 

Means testing can generate incredible bureaucracy and bizarre results, as evidenced by the farce of the third level grant schemes, where most people on average incomes fail to qualify, yet a minority of tycoons, who happen for some reason to have low incomes, can qualify.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

leghorn said:


> Whatever they do it'll have to be pretty major.
> Stuff like 10c on a packet of fags probably won't help too much.
> 
> Maybe something drastic like
> ...



What about the IFSC and all of the foreign banks operating here? What will happen to all the money we make from stealing taxes from other countries? 

I agree about a tax hike on the fags. €2 a pack would be a good idea and take them out of the CPI so it doesn’t hit inflation figures.


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## z103 (8 Oct 2008)

> What about the IFSC and all of the foreign banks operating here? What will happen to all the money we make from stealing taxes from other countries?


There's no future in it, we shouldn't be relying on leaching.
There's too much risk of these foreign companies leaving when their home countries tighten the rules, or they find a better deal elsewhere.

We should be creating our own indigenous enterprise. Encourage people to invest in Irish companies (rather than property)


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

leghorn said:


> There's no future in it, we shouldn't be relying on leaching.


 It’s worked just fine for the Swiss for over a hundred years and they leach blood money as well.



leghorn said:


> There's too much risk of these foreign companies leaving when their home countries tighten the rules, or they find a better deal elsewhere.


 Where does Glenn Dimplex manufacture it’s goods? What about Smurfit? Or how about CRH?
If Irish companies want to be world players they have to compete in an international market. That means going where they will get the best return on investment.



leghorn said:


> We should be creating our own indigenous enterprise. Encourage people to invest in Irish companies (rather than property)


I am involved in an indigenous Irish manufacturing company so don't think I don't like the idea of people investing in Irish companies but we are the most exposed economy in Europe (and possible the world) to trade. We cannot function in isolation. When the USA, the country with the biggest internal market in the world, tried this last it caused the great depression. Therefore we need capital flows into and out of the country. 

As long as there is good governance in the host country capitalism is a blessing which enriches the poor. If there is not good governance it can enslave them. Socialist protectionism ensures that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. I am talking about the truly poor; the not the disadvantaged in Ireland and the Western World. If protectionist policies had been adopted in the USA in the 1980’s we would never have had our 15-20 years in the sun. Now it’s someone else’s turn, look at how countries like Korea have been transformed over the last 20 years,  how can we complain?


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## Henny Penny (8 Oct 2008)

Any government who means tests children's allowance would not find themselves in power for very long IMHO. If you're talking about means testing this then why not means test the state Old Age Pension?


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## Purple (8 Oct 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> I am a parent myself and would not be too bothered either if it was scrapped. I honestly think that scrapping child benefit altogether would be a better idea than means testing it, if parents' welfare allowances were adjusted accordingly to compensate.


 Yep, that's a better idea.



Henny Penny said:


> Any government who means tests children's allowance would not find themselves in power for very long IMHO. If you're talking about means testing this then why not means test the state Old Age Pension?


Pensions are taxed; why not tax children’s allowance?


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## Pique318 (9 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> I agree about a tax hike on the fags. €2 a pack would be a good idea and take them out of the CPI so it doesn’t hit inflation figures.


Nice slight of hand 
Sure take Oil & Mortgage payments out too and inflation will be nice and 'contained'


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