# Form 11 or Form 1 (which is correct?)



## lyonsa3 (25 Apr 2011)

Hi,
I'm looking to find out which tax return form is the correct one for me.
I'm a PAYE worker with one property that I rent out (approx €4500 pa rent).
My wife is a stay at home parent so has no income.
We have no other sources of income.
The investment property is in both our names.

Up to now i've been filing a Form 11, but I received a letter from revenue stating that I also need to file a Form 1 as the investment property is classed as a partnership.

Is this correct?

Seems to me that all I have to do is fill out the Form 1 with all the same information from Form 11 again.


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## oldnick (25 Apr 2011)

What a strange request from Revenue! Unless there has been some change of rules that I've not heard of then form 11 is all you need . Frankly, for one rental property it's a long-winded form, but I cannot imagine why you were asked to fill form 1.

*Please* tell us what Revenue tell you. Am sure there are loads of AAM posters who ,like you, have rental properties and just do form 11,not form 1- so the reply you get will be interesting for us.


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## T McGibney (26 Apr 2011)

Revenue are technically correct here, even if their are being a little pedantic. If the rent is being shared jointly, a partnership exists and details of the income and apportionment basis (eg 50%/50%) should be recorded on the Form 1.


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## oldnick (27 Apr 2011)

According to tax.ireland.ie -Sept 2010 - summary of report..

" Irish tax institute raised the issue of requests from revenue for for form 1 in the contex where a husband and wife had ben registered as apartnership and had been already included on form 11. Tax practitioners considerd this a duplication. revenue noted that in such circumstances to contact the local tax district as Revenue's computer system was unable to identify such circumstances"

So, two forms not needed. But you have to contact Revnue.
I imagine many people will just plod ahead and do both sets of forms rather than phone Revenue.


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## lyonsa3 (27 Apr 2011)

Just been on to revenue.  They state that if the property is in both my wife's and my names it is classed as a partnership.  I then have to file a Form 1 also.

Seem to me a lot of extra work for nothing.
I have never returned a Form 1 before but now they want a Form 1 filed for the last 3 years.


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## extopia (27 Apr 2011)

That's because you filed the wrong form


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## oldnick (27 Apr 2011)

extopia - what do you mean ? what was the wrong form that OP filed ?
Are you saying that form 11 should not have been filed?
OP was told that he has to do form 11 and form 1 which seems crazy. There's another thread on this same subject and everyone is quite puzzled by duplication.


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## extopia (28 Apr 2011)

Sorry, meant to say _set _of forms (i.e. Form 1 missing). Hey, I'm not saying it's right and efficient on the part of the Revenue, but it's pretty clear from the written regulations (whatever about informally asking the Revenue for dispensation).


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## oldnick (28 Apr 2011)

Fair enough - I wonder if our tax experts on this forum have talked to revenue about this. The previously quoted post re Tax Institute seemed clear ,but evdintly not.

It just seems so wrong that thousands of more hours work is being done needlessly - great for tax accountants and for the Revenue staff ,but blooming waste of time for working people.


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## simplyjoe (28 Apr 2011)

In this instance the form 1 would take about 2 minutes to complete and file online.


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## Gekko (28 Apr 2011)

I would have thought that the OP should be submitting a Form 12 (unless he's a proprietary director).

Unfortunately, Revenue's PAYE section seems to be staffed by their most incompetent and technically ignorant staff. And I'm speaking from experience.

Call them and get them to delete whatever active registration is triggering this bizarre obligation to submit a Form 1.


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## lyonsa3 (3 May 2011)

just been on to revenue again to plead my case.  
They have agreed to cancel the partnership and allow me to file a form 11 only.


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## oldnick (3 May 2011)

Well done ! At least someone in revenue has a bit of common sense.


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## kennyb3 (5 May 2011)

Gekko said:


> I would have thought that the OP should be submitting a Form 12 (unless he's a proprietary director).
> 
> Unfortunately, Revenue's PAYE section seems to be staffed by their most incompetent and technically ignorant staff. And I'm speaking from experience.
> 
> Call them and get them to delete whatever active registration is triggering this bizarre obligation to submit a Form 1.


 
That was my thought too, unless the Case V surplus is over €3,174 or they are a proprietary director i'd imagine they can switch back to Form 12. Worth looking into.


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