# Renting and pets - landlord changed his mind



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

Hi,

I've been renting a house for 10 years. With the landlord's permission, I've had a dog (has since died) and now cats.

This month, the landlord apparently changed his mind and basically told us that either the cats go, or we all go.

There isn't any damage done to the house by the cats (if there was, I'd have paid the fix myself of course), but still he insists the cats are making "house lose value" and the only example he gave was "the smell".

I'm assuming he's within his rights to do so, as it's his house, but is there anything I can do to protect myself?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ppmeath (19 Aug 2016)

Sounds strange. Do you think he wants you to go? I wouldn't say that he is within his rights, you are in the property 10 years and have had pets for 10 years, something has changed.


----------



## vandriver (19 Aug 2016)

How does your rent compare with tthbopen market?


----------



## AlbacoreA (19 Aug 2016)

I can see no reason for it. Unless its to encourage to leave. I would be surprised if the LL can change the terms and conditions of the rental like that.  But I think you should take proper advise from some one like threshold. But double check what they tell you with the law.


----------



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

ppmeath said:


> Sounds strange. Do you think he wants you to go? I wouldn't say that he is within his rights, you are in the property 10 years and have had pets for 10 years, something has changed.



I've asked what had prompted this, but didn't get a straight answer beyond "it's time to upgrade the house and I'm not doing it with cats".




vandriver said:


> How does your rent compare with tthbopen market?



Pretty low and I would have understood something less radical, like a rent increase to keep with market rates for example. It's however hard to compare as the house itself is about 50 years old, and last time it had an upgrade was 6 years ago.



AlbacoreA said:


> I can see no reason for it. Unless its to encourage to leave. I would be surprised if the LL can change the terms and conditions of the rental like that.  But I think you should take proper advise from some one like threshold. But double check what they tell you with the law.



Thanks, will contact threshold and try to find a specialized lawyer.


----------



## AlbacoreA (19 Aug 2016)

Perhaps he thinks you won't be able to afford the increase. Thats the only thing I can think of. But its an odd way of going around it.


----------



## ppmeath (19 Aug 2016)

TheReflex said:


> I've asked what had prompted this, but didn't get a straight answer beyond "it's time to upgrade the house and I'm not doing it with cats".



Did you ask him to upgrade the house? 



TheReflex said:


> Pretty low and I would have understood something less radical, like a rent increase to keep with market rates for example. It's however hard to compare as the house itself is about 50 years old, and last time it had an upgrade was 6 years ago.



Maybe offer to pay more rent? I am assuming that you are happy in the house? If so, and if your rent is pretty low then make an approach to him?


----------



## AlbacoreA (19 Aug 2016)

You have to maintain a house.


----------



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

ppmeath said:


> Did you ask him to upgrade the house?
> 
> Maybe offer to pay more rent? I am assuming that you are happy in the house? If so, and if your rent is pretty low then make an approach to him?



Some time ago I offered to split the cost of upgrading the carpet, but that was rejected. Starting to think that triggered this entire issue.

Regarding rent increase, he was very clear that was an option - as long as we threw the cats out.



AlbacoreA said:


> You have to maintain a house.



Which I do, to the point of paying of my own pocket fixes of small issues related to the house's age.


----------



## ppmeath (19 Aug 2016)

TheReflex said:


> Some time ago I offered to split the cost of upgrading the carpet, but that was rejected. Starting to think that triggered this entire issue



Did you recently ask him to upgrade the house in any way?


----------



## Billo (19 Aug 2016)

How many cats ?


----------



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

ppmeath said:


> Did you recently ask him to upgrade the house in any way?



Nothing besides the aforementioned carpet. I can't get him to fix damaged things that would be of his responsibility, so I've given up on anything more complex/expensive.



Billo said:


> How many cats ?



It varies as I help a cat charity. I have made this clear to the landlord several years ago and he never raised an issue.


----------



## AlbacoreA (19 Aug 2016)

TheReflex said:


> ..Which I do, to the point of paying of my own pocket fixes of small issues related to the house's age.



I meant the a house owner has to maintain/upgrade a house, to prevent expensive bills if its left too long. The tenant can not refuse reasonable requests in that regard. So its not like you can refuse it, is what I meant. Not that the LL is doing it. 

Its impossible to read the LL mind.


----------



## ppmeath (19 Aug 2016)

TheReflex said:


> I've been renting a house for 10 years. With the landlord's permission, I've had a dog (has since died) *and now cats.*





TheReflex said:


> I've asked what had prompted this, but didn't get a straight answer beyond "it's time to upgrade the house and* I'm not doing it with cats*".





TheReflex said:


> *It varies as I help a cat charity*.





TheReflex said:


> Regarding rent increase, he was very clear that was an option - *as long as we threw the cats out*.



Your LL clearly has an issue with the cats. That's your problem.

Were you helping with the cat charity when you moved in?

Exactly how many cats are we talking about?


----------



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

I started helping the cat charity 6 years ago and informed the landlord about it.

I am not questioning that the landlord has an issue with cats, I am questioning why did it take him 6 years to state anything about it, while I've been keeping his house in an irreproachable condition.

Or, to be more precise, I am more concerned about how to protect myself and the cats from this sudden change of circumstances. Perhaps there's nothing I can do, but no harm in asking.


----------



## Billo (19 Aug 2016)

[QUOTE
It varies as I help a cat charity. I have made this clear to the landlord several years ago and he never raised an issue.[/QUOTE]

Varies from what to what ????


----------



## odyssey06 (19 Aug 2016)

I think you need to read this:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

While a landlord is entitled to evict if he wishes to upgrade the property, they are certain responsibilities as noted on that website:

If the landlord intends to refurbish the property to the extent that it needs to be vacant, they must state the nature of the works in writing, along with the notice of termination.
You have been renting for 8 years or longer, therefore you would be entitled to "32 weeks (224 days)" notice.
Leave the landlord in no uncertainty that any request to leave must be in writing.
Print out the citizens information page and if necessary, give the landlord a copy.
If it isn't in writing, as far as you are concerned, it has not occurred in any meaningful or legal sense.

If anyone thinks I have erred in my interpretation of the information available on Citizens Information, please jump in.

My instinct is that the pets issue is just a smokescreen to evade these obligations, unless the landlord can point to a specific reason (i.e. damage) why he has changed the conditions.  This guff about smell and 'house losing value' will look pretty stupid in writing, and would only matter in any case if the landlord was planning to sell the property, which again means he has a whole other set of obligations to follow.
If the property had a lot of work done 6 years ago, how can it be the case now that it's in such a bad state it's needs 'upgrade' work, as opposed to regular annual maintenance? 
If the issue is cats in the place during maintenance work,  they maybe you can come to a compromise of no cats for 1 month during the work.

Maybe that will make him back down, but I think you need to prepare for the worst and start looking for alternatives - you have 32 weeks in which to do so.

ps A "house losing value" because of cats, in this property market? Really? Does he imagine they are sabre-toothed tigers? *sigh*


----------



## TheReflex (19 Aug 2016)

Thank you odyssey06 that was exactly the kind of information I was looking for!


----------



## ant dee (20 Aug 2016)

Just curious, OP can you give us an idea of the number of cats hanging out in your home?Two, four, eight, twelve?


----------



## ppmeath (20 Aug 2016)

odyssey06 said:


> I think you need to read this:
> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
> 
> While a landlord is entitled to evict if he wishes to upgrade the property, they are certain responsibilities as noted on that website:
> ...



I think your interpretation is spot on, but I don't think that the OP has received balanced advice. The LL certainly has obligations, but so too does the tenant:

*"Obligations of a tenant*
You must:


Pay your rent on time
Pay any other charges that are specified in the letting agreement, for example, waste collection charges; utility bills; management fees to the management company in an apartment complex – see ‘Other charges and payments’ below
Keep the property in good order
Inform the landlord if repairs are needed and give the landlord access to the property to carry out repairs
Give the landlord access (by appointment) for routine inspections
Inform the landlord of who is living in the property
Avoid causing damage or nuisance
Make sure that you do not cause the landlord to be in breach of the law
Comply with any special terms in your tenancy agreement, oral or written
Give the landlord the information required to register with the RTB and sign the registration form when asked to do so
Give the landlord proper notice when you are ending the tenancy
*You should note that it may be more difficult to assert your rights if you have broken conditions of your tenancy."*

The OP asked if there was anything that they could do to protect themselves. 

My advice would be to check your lease, if you have one and make sure that it doesn't have a no pets clause. 




odyssey06 said:


> If it isn't in writing, as far as you are concerned, it has not occurred in any meaningful or legal sense.



And by the same logic, if the OP does not have written permission to have the pets - then there isn't any agreement and if the LL is using the cats (and I suspect he is) as the smokescreen, then the OP has a problem.


----------



## Billo (20 Aug 2016)

TheReflex said:


> It varies as I help a cat charity. I have made this clear to the landlord several years ago and he never raised an issue.





ppmeath said:


> Were you helping with the cat charity when you moved in?
> 
> Exactly how many cats are we talking about?





Billo said:


> [QUOTE
> It varies as I help a cat charity. I have made this clear to the landlord several years ago and he never raised an issue.



Varies from what to what ????[/QUOTE]


----------



## mathepac (20 Aug 2016)

Any neighbours complaining about the cats using their gardens as toilets or yowling at night? As for using the cats as an excuse to get you out having had pets with no comment from him for 10 years, he's barking up the wrong tree. (sorry). talk to threshold and citizens information


----------



## Billo (22 Aug 2016)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057636863

How many cats ??


----------



## AlbacoreA (24 Aug 2016)

Oddly enough LL not doing anything to a property for years and then doing an lot of work in one go, seems to be quite common.


----------



## Firehead (24 Aug 2016)

OP seem to be a bit evasive about the exact number of cats.......


----------



## ant dee (24 Aug 2016)

Makes you wonder, is it helping a cat charity or running a cat hotel?


----------



## Leo (25 Aug 2016)

ant dee said:


> Makes you wonder, is it helping a cat charity or running a cat hotel?



Either wouldn't qualify as a standard definition of keeping pets either. I'm no expert but I'm sure there's a big difference between a couple of well trained house trained pets and multiple rescue animals in unfamiliar surroundings.


----------

