# Anyone know what the CSO pay statisticians?



## legend99 (26 Jan 2005)

Question is in the topic me thinks!


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## ClubMan (26 Jan 2005)

I suspect that the _CSO_ follow _Civil/Public Service_ grades and salary levels so you may be able to find some information on ?


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## ajapale (26 Jan 2005)

[broken link removed]
Do you know at what grade statisticians are employed?

from the cso website:



> Employment of Permanent Staff
> 
> The permanent staff in the CSO are civil servants recruited through open public competitions held by the Civil Service Commission (CSC). These competitions are advertised. Appointments to the CSO from competitions for general services grades (e.g. Clerical Officer, Executive Officer) are, as vacancies arise, made from panels of successful applicants maintained by the CSC over a period of time. *Special open public competitions are held for the appointment to the Statistician grade in the CSO.* Details of competitions are available from the CSC.
> 
> ...


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## legend99 (26 Jan 2005)

*..*

Yea, had seen them both.but neither really helps, unless I can figure out what grade a statistician is in terms of the CSO


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## Bleary1 (27 Jan 2005)

*Re: ..*

They had a competition last year for this 
The start salary was in the region of  30000 -32000 per annum


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## legend99 (27 Jan 2005)

*..*

Thanks Bleary...i had thought it would be higher than that now to be honest...


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## Natchessmen (27 Jan 2005)

*Statisticians pay?*

Its not just the average salary that should be of interest, you also need to pay attention to the standard deviation ....sorry couldn't resist

Nat


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## Bleary1 (27 Jan 2005)

*Re: Statisticians pay?*

A lot of people attending on the day were final year students 
-it was one of the open competitions so maybe the world and their mother applied but it seemed to be a lot of new grads 
For a graduate this would be pretty good salary
This would be the bottom of the scale though not sure if they recruit  experienced statisticians any other way .


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## legend99 (27 Jan 2005)

*..*

Did you do the test at the time Bleary? How hard was it?!!!


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## Bleary1 (28 Jan 2005)

*Re: ..*

Ahhm yes I did . It was a pretty typical test of verbal reasoning,numeracy and one test of I suppose you could say role play -gave you a number of situations and asked you to pick the best option of a number given. Or to write a letter responding to a request. It wasn't very difficult tho I managed to forget how to add (whoops). The standard of maths required was about inter cert definitely not honours leaving cert. They sent out a booklet with examples of questions for the maths  section and they did follow this format. From these results they interviewed. If you get some pratice in it would be fine-After I messed up I searched for similar examples on the net and found practice examples
I thought there were quite a few who looked as though they might already be working in civil service and were taking it very seriously.


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## legend99 (28 Jan 2005)

*..*

Turns out someone I know did it at the time but he said they only interviewed the top 30. Did you get an interview Bleary or you finish lower than that?

Oh and he said he thought he wasn't that easy at all...said each question was easy, but that you had about a min per question only!


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## Unregistered (27 Apr 2005)

SALARY SCALE:  €28,600  - €69,460* (PPC Scale)*€67,350 after 3 years’, €69,460 after 6 years’ satisfactory service  respectively on the maximum.


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## Unregistered (27 Apr 2005)

At the last count 4 out of 5 of them were happy with those salaries but 97.876% of those said they would not say no to a pay rise!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't resist!!!


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## Unregistered (27 Apr 2005)

Hi gang,

The grade is linked to the Administrative Officer/Assistant Principal pay scales.
After three years satisfactory service, the Director General has the power to move staff up by 3 increments (ususally one of these is the increment that moves you from AO to AP and is worth about €8000.

Basically, you get to the top of the scale in 7 years or so.

Regards,

Opus.

(Used to work there..!)


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## Purple (27 Apr 2005)

havn't heard much from you for a while opus. You must have a real job now....


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## Unregistered (28 Apr 2005)

Hi Purple,

Nice to hear from you again - actually I'm trying to get registered on this new-fangled board!!!

But no, I'm afraid I'm still in the good old Civil Service (but I do a few other things as well ;-) ) !  I used to be a statistician there a few years ago - kinda sorry I left it now, but there you go!

Regards,

Opus.


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## legend99 (3 May 2005)

Opus, you have any idea what the starting off point would be? And did they tend to recruit in the year of a census?/ I'm hoping they might need extra staff with that on the horizon....

Would you be able to interpret this so based on your comments? is one to assume you start off on the lowest scale for Admin Officer recruited after 1995? In that case, how does one jump from 29,500 to 69,000 in just 7 years?!

[broken link removed]

Second, did this:
"SALARY SCALE: €28,600 - €69,460* (PPC Scale)*€67,350 after 3 years’, €69,460 after 6 years’ satisfactory service respectively on the maximum."

come from a job ad...if so, could you point me in its direction?!


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## Unregistered (3 May 2005)

i posted the salary scale. there was an ad in the paper about feb or march 2004 & then an aptitude test.
The panel was formed last june or july and i got called for interview in feb 2005. I didn't go for the interview in the end..

anyway i would think  you'd have to wait for the next round of positions to be advertised in the paper, i think it might be every two years that they do it.

i don't know what point of the scale you could expect to start on but if you have no civil service work experience it would probably be the first point.


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## legend99 (3 May 2005)

bollocks.....but I'd nearly take a drop in pay for a few years if I ever managed to get an offer there because A) that work would interest me and I love maths/stats and numbers B) because aside from all of that there seems to be a lot going for a civil service job these days.....

How come you didn't go for interview.......and how come it took a year between exam and interview....even the Civil Service can't be that slow surely?!!! Or is it that they interview the first X amount, then the second X amount? In that case, any idea how many positions they'd take people into over the 2 year span?


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## Unregistered (3 May 2005)

they were taking the first 30 for interview and I was number 49 so that's it took a while to get around to me. I was told initially that they would only be taking on about 2 people but when I eventually got called for interview I asked again and they said they had actually taken on about 15 people by then.
I didn't go for the interview as they were using this thing called  a structured interview & it scared me off. It was a really detailed list of questions you had to answer to "give examples from your experience that best shows your ability to handle various aspects of the work." 

Anyway I think you should give the Public Appointments Service a call on 1890-449999 to check where the competition is at the moment and when they will be hiring again.
You could get try applying for temporary work during the census, I saw an ad on that in the paper recently.


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## legend99 (3 May 2005)

Thanks Mister Guest. Lot of info there. So they took 15 out of the first 30...thats a fair few. Wonder how many they will take out of the next thirty that you didn;t go for interview on.

Havign said that, if they have taken on 15+ in the last 15 months, I assume they  will need bugger all people for the next few years so....I mean, they only employ 600 or 700, so taking on 15+ would seem to be all they would need...

is one allowed ring the HR in the CSO direct and ask them....like I presume its they decide how many they need and then ask the Public Jobs people to do the dirty work...


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## Unregistered (3 May 2005)

i think you should ring the Public Appointments Service number as they will know where the competition is at the moment and also can tell you when the next competition is likely to be. They might also have an idea on how many might be hired before the panel is disbanded.


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## legend99 (3 May 2005)

solid....listen, thanks for the info. I'll chance a call to them later on, hopefully they might have another competition towards the end of the year. Hopefully too they will need to recruit people for the census, outside of the temp field staff.


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## Unregistered (5 May 2005)

Hi Legend99,

"Opus, you have any idea what the starting off point would be? And did they tend to recruit in the year of a census?/ I'm hoping they might need extra staff with that on the horizon....

Would you be able to interpret this so based on your comments? is one to assume you start off on the lowest scale for Admin Officer recruited after 1995? In that case, how does one jump from 29,500 to 69,000 in just 7 years?!"

[broken link removed]

You can probably negotiate depending on experience up to say 3 points on the scale.  If you work in the public sector, they'll take you across at your current salary plus any earned increment and that would be your statrting salary, subject to at least the minimum of the scale.

Of late (say the last 5 years or so), the CSO recruit reasonably regularly as they need to cover more and more statistical work - it's not just based on the Census (although that would help)

"Second, did this:
"SALARY SCALE: €28,600 - €69,460* (PPC Scale)*€67,350 after 3 years’, €69,460 after 6 years’ satisfactory service respectively on the maximum."

come from a job ad...if so, could you point me in its direction?!"

Looks ok to me!  you might try publicjobs.ie or try impact's website for a more detailed listing of the scale.  And yes, you do  hop up from 29k to the top of the scale (this isn't the 69K though, more like 65K) in seven years - you get triple increments after years 3 and 7.  The last two points are long service increments which you get after 3 years and 6 years service at the top of the ordinary scale.  By the way, the average salary point is say 2000-2500 per annum, but one of the points (moving you from AO to AP scale is closer to 10K)

Hope this helps,

Opus.

PS don't forget a pay increase of 1.5% and benchmarking of 3% (?) in June and another 1.5% in December 2005.


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## legend99 (6 May 2005)

Rang the Public Jobs people. I got the impression that the list they have from the most recent interviews they did, Feburary 05, will last for 2 years?? In that case, I assume they won't be advertising again until that 2 years is up...does that sound correct to you?
As I know someone who came 54th that time last year and he was called feb 05 for interview that means they must have another 30 on the list they put together in feb 05(well 28 cause someone in here said they declined the interview and my mate who was called is now happy working in Germany and didn't attend!)

So if they have around 25 to 28 on that list, would that not last them more than 2 years....like, you have any idea how many new statisticians might be taken on every year??

thanks again!

P.S. 65k or 69k, I'd be fairly fecking happy with either!!!!!


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## legend99 (16 May 2005)

Rang HR in the CSO as well and they didn't have much more info....looks like I'm stuck!


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## chihiro (25 Oct 2005)

I did the tests what must have been a year and a half ago and have just been called for interview in November. If my memory serves me correct I was #68 on the list. I have 4/5 yrs experience working in the Dept of Education - wondering where I'd start on the infamous PPC scale (€28,600 - €69,460). Current salary close to 40k. Was starting to get really cosy in my job but seeing €€€€€€ now! 
Anyone out there been for one of these interviews? The interview form looks like a nightmare alright, must get stuck in!
Any answers re salary or info re statistician role/working in the CSO greatly appreciated!
Thanks


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## jdork (26 Oct 2005)

Got called as well. Think I was eighty something. 

Received a letter on Monday with an application form to be completed and returned by Wednesday! Decided not to go ahead.


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## tallpaul (27 Oct 2005)

chihiro said:
			
		

> I did the tests what must have been a year and a half ago and have just been called for interview in November. If my memory serves me correct I was #68 on the list. I have 4/5 yrs experience working in the Dept of Education - wondering where I'd start on the infamous PPC scale (€28,600 - €69,460). Current salary close to 40k. Was starting to get really cosy in my job but seeing €€€€€€ now!
> Anyone out there been for one of these interviews? The interview form looks like a nightmare alright, must get stuck in!
> Any answers re salary or info re statistician role/working in the CSO greatly appreciated!
> Thanks


 
Would have thought that in addition to the lolly, depending on your circumstances, the issue of a non-decentralising location might be attractive. ALthough if they require Statisticians in Cork...


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## legend99 (27 Oct 2005)

all the jobs are nearly in Cork. Second, that pay scale is Jan 2004. There has been a good few % added on since then with the last quarter of benchmarking and sustaining progress, and there is in fact another 1.5% due in Dec and 2.5% in June 2006.

I'm amazed they have worked down to number 90 on the list though as they seemed to have done it in 30s.

I mean, theres only about 650 in the CSO..how many new people can they bring in!


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## BillK (27 Oct 2005)

The good thing about structured interviews is that every applicant is asked the same basic questions and therefore the comparison between applicants is much easier.
Depending on the responses to the basic questions then supplementary questions may be asked.

Overall I believe that structured interviews are much fairer to applicants.


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## PGD1 (28 Oct 2005)

is it just me or do all these salaries seem quite high?
32k starting off!!??


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## legend99 (28 Oct 2005)

Porfessional job I'd guess. And also, thats what people starting as Admin officers get, and the stats as explained earlier encompases the AO and AP salary scale.


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## brilliant81 (17 Nov 2005)

chihiro said:
			
		

> I did the tests what must have been a year and a half ago and have just been called for interview in November. If my memory serves me correct I was #68 on the list. I have 4/5 yrs experience working in the Dept of Education - wondering where I'd start on the infamous PPC scale (€28,600 - €69,460). Current salary close to 40k. Was starting to get really cosy in my job but seeing €€€€€€ now!
> Anyone out there been for one of these interviews? The interview form looks like a nightmare alright, must get stuck in!
> Any answers re salary or info re statistician role/working in the CSO greatly appreciated!
> Thanks


 
If you are happy in your job with €40k+ why would you even consider taking a drop in salary to start a fresh again at the bottom of the ladder in a job might not like??


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## RainyDay (17 Nov 2005)

brilliant81 said:
			
		

> If you are happy in your job with €40k+ why would you even consider taking a drop in salary to start a fresh again at the bottom of the ladder in a job might not like??


Job security for life, 9-5 hours, DB pension scheme with index linking


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## brilliant81 (17 Nov 2005)

What is this DB pension and index linking??


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## RainyDay (17 Nov 2005)

brilliant81 said:
			
		

> What is this DB pension and index linking??


A Defined Benefit pension scheme guarantees the recipient a fixed income in retirement. By contrast, a Defined Contribution scheme means the recipient gets the value of the funds investment by the recipient and the employer. So a DB scheme gives much greater security. The fund carries the risk of investment return. With a DC scheme, the recipient carries the risk.

In the public sector and better private sector DB schemes, the pension is index linked - so your pension will increase each year in line with inflation. DC schemes are not index linked, and the cost of purchasing an index-linked guaranteed income (via an annuity) is substantial.


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## legend99 (17 Nov 2005)

why you would go to public service....if you are getting the same money, but suddenly working only 34.75 hours a week as opposed to 40, with more holidays and flexitime, then its a big carrot. Over 900 sat the exams in March 2004.
Be aware that the pension benefits means that you have to pay between 5 and 6% of your salary in depending on your gross salary and payment is not optional, you have to join. I know the benefits are great, but some people in private industry who are young might have chosen to not yet start a pension...as I recall even the chosen one who leads AAM believes that a pension should wait until after a house is bought...but I'm open to correction on that.


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## tomboy25 (23 Nov 2005)

I was called as well for interview, and went last week. I was told the panel has been exhausted up to this round of interviews, and they haven't managed to fill their quota!! Did anybody else go? What did people think of the "structured interview" format? I thought it was a lot easier in some ways than an interview in the private sector....


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## legend99 (23 Nov 2005)

its exhausted for Cork only....there are still a number of people on it for Dublin but many of them declined Cork jobs. Therefore, there is a still a list of those people from the panel who are waiting for jobs to come up in Dublin.


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## brilliant81 (23 Nov 2005)

So are ye saying that there is more than likely vacancies for those who are suitable in cork?!! What is this interview thing? Is it better than the traditional one? How long does the interview last and how many on panel


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## chihiro (23 Nov 2005)

went for the interview earlier on this week. 3 on the panel. They were very fair. Structured interview went well I thought. They really stick to the form and no off putting questions to catch you off guard (save yourself time and don't bother preparing the perfect "my greatest weakness" answer - they don't ask anything like that).  Very skills based  and focused on your current experience or how you would deal with X as a statistician in the CSO. Getting extra points on the Irish language test will help on the points side. Will find out in 2-3 wks. Would like a job in Dublin where I'm buing a house at the mo with the option of transferring to cork after a number of years, not asking for much, am I?;-)


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## tomboy25 (23 Nov 2005)

I rang them today, and I was told that they are looking to fill 5 or 6 more jobs but they are all in Cork, no jobs available in Dublin at the mo, and they will be closing this panel and holding a new competition in the spring...So looks like no chance of a job in Dublin then :-(


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## brilliant81 (24 Nov 2005)

Best of luck with it anyway chihiro


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## bleary (24 Nov 2005)

Did anyone actually work out exactly what the starting salary is now?
Bet nobody asked...


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## legend99 (24 Nov 2005)

30,903 is the minimum starting salary. That will increase by 1.5% on Dec 1, then another 2.5% on June 1, 2006. You can start at up to 6 additional points on the scale...i.e. at point 7. This is around 48k. The only person who can agree to start you above the minimum is the Director General.


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## Cati76 (19 Dec 2005)

hi there, new here, and found pretty good info, thanks. anyone knows when will the CSO recruit more statisticians. Also, do you have to be irish to be able to apply for a civil servant job? Any info would be greatly appreaciated. Thanks.


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## legend99 (20 Dec 2005)

Stats jobs in the CSO are recruited via open competition. The last happened in march 2004. The panels formed from them usually last about 2 years, so expect to see competition March to May 2006. keep an eye on www.publicjobs.ie


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## Cati76 (20 Dec 2005)

thanks legend99, i will indeed. do you know by any chance if you have to be irish citizen, or if any european candidate will taken into consideration. I'm from spain myself, with both spanish and irish qualifications.


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## legend99 (21 Dec 2005)

i wouldn't think that people from the EU could be excluded? All you have to do is satisfy the qulaification criteria in terms of numerate/economic/maths background/degree.


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