# Company has unilaterally stopped paying its pension contribution.



## jimmyd

I joined the company I worked for 3.5 years ago and joined into the pension scheme they had already going.

The paper work I was given was that I would put a percentage of my salary into the pension and the company would match it. I took note of a section on the booklet that said if the company goes into hard fanicial times it does not have to pay its percentage.

This week I went to my employeer after asking for the last 3 months for my pension statement or details of what is in it and he came clean that 2 years ago they dropped the employeers contribution from 5% to 1% and had not told anyone. 

Further questioning of him I found out that for the last year they had not paid the employees percentage to the pension company or the employeers contribution but had continued to deduct it from our wages.

 I was told they have been talking to the pension company and were arranging a pay back schedule with them.

What can I do?


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## South

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Did you mention it to The Pensions Board (www.pensionsboard.ie) or The Pensions Ombudsman ([broken link removed])?

If not, they should be contacted.


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## d53

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Talk to the Pensions Board immediately, even if your employer is planning to repay.  If they did it once, they may do it again.

d


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

What happens to the employeer once reported?


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## South

*Re: Pension Fraud*

It depends on what they did - if what you have said is true, then they have defrauded the pension fund, and by implication the employees.


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

What happens to the employeer once reported? I havent made contact with anyone on this yet as the employeer told me by the end of this week he will have the repayment schedule done up so i was waiting on this as i think if i report them they may close down as have money issues and this could be the final blow and then i would not get back my pension money


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## South

*Re: Pension Fraud*

If you're afraid of the consequences of reporting, then don't report.

You can't ask the guards what would happen to someone for robbing you before you decide whether or not to report him/her!!


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

I'll wait until I get this repayment scheme and see what it looks like and ive alos requested a monthly statement from the pension company to let me see the money is going back in.


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## bacchus

*Re: Pension Fraud*



jimmyd said:


> the employeer told me by the end of this week he will have the repayment schedule done up so i was waiting on this


 
Employer should actually lodge more into your pension a/cg  that they would have had to at the first place to compensate for the lack of interest earnings shall the money had been invested on a continious basis.


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## dangerhere

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Who are the trustees? Ask them!


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

I went to the trustee and she said to talk to the managing director in the company.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Pension Fraud*



jimmyd said:


> I went to the trustee and she said to talk to the managing director in the company.


Surely that is wrong and the trustees have ultimate responsibility here to protect the interests of the pension scheme members? You definitely should get onto the _Pensions Board _in my opinion. They also have some booklets outlining the responsibilities of scheme trustees. Is the trustee in any way linked to the employer?


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## South

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Trustees and Employer could both be liable to prosecution at this rate!


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## d53

*Re: Pension Fraud*

If the trustees are aware of the employer withholding the employee contributions and they don't do anything about it, they are guilty of an offence.

d


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## aidan119

*Re: Pension Fraud*

From your earlier posts it seems that you were a director of this company.
As such you had better thread carefully when accusing the company of fraud. You had obligations and responsibilities as a director.

The first port of call is the Trustees as they are responsible for ensuring money is received and invested. What does their last trustee report say about contributions? 

You've lost the investment gains of your own contributions for the last 3 yrs. These were good times for pension investments so you have lost a good bit.

They also effectively cut your salary by 4% without telling you. Is this amount to be included in the repayment schedule ?

How about your PRSI - I would check if they have been paying this over as well.


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Yes I was a director for 6 months with this company along with the 3 other directors and 2 of us stepped down at the same time due to not being brought to any management meetings or shown any money figures.

The trustee is actually related to the director - we never received any trustee reports

My employeer today gave me accress to the online section of the company that does our pensions and I can now see what is happening when /if they pay into it and I also have been given a repayment schedule on the money owned to me and a letter that states that all of this was done without my knowledge over the last 2 years - they say they will have it all paid back by october this year with even the 4% reduction paid back.

Should i say nothing and see if they start paying and at least then I am getting my money back but without any gains and maybe when it is paid back i can get them to pay the gains that i should have made???

PRSI - is fine as I have checked this.


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## aidan119

*Re: Pension Fraud*

I would not trust my pension with these trustees. If you don't want to rock the boat too much you may consider transferring your pension to a low cost PRSA and control it yourself.
Your employer can still pay his contribution into it. That way you know where you stand.
Are there other employees affected ?. Who will look after their interests or do they know about this problem. 
These trustees should not be allowed anywhere near a pension scheme but I get the feeling this scheme was only for a few people, maybe directors ?. If there are no other employees affected you may be better to leave it alone to safeguard your job.
 If there are other employees affected then you need to make a moral decision whether to expose this. The trustees and employer have breached so many rules it is hard to know where to start. The pensions board would certainly prosecute both parties. You would also have a very good case to personally sue the trustees for compensation.


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

It looks like that there was only 5 people in the pension scheme -  the 2 remaining directors and 3 employees (i being one) - I went straight to the other 2 employees when i found out and they are getting repaid as quick if not quicker then me as they were paying very little into the scheme where as i was paying alot every week.
I threatened the director yesterday with reporting him to the pension board yesterday so i hope that will inspire him to repay.

Do you think it is ok once i can see my pension money being paid on the pensions company website? i have access to that now and can see my balance and all payments that go into it.


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## askalot

*Re: Pension Fraud*



aidan119 said:


> I would not trust my pension with these trustees. If you don't want to rock the boat too much you may consider transferring your pension to a low cost PRSA and control it yourself.
> Your employer can still pay his contribution into it. That way you know where you stand.



Hard to argue with this. Give them a month to make up the short fall, tell them if they haven't paid it up by then you will report them. Hopefully you'll get your money and can then move it to a PRSA.

Personally as well as moving my money I'd also move jobs. The company directors clearly have no respect for their staff.


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Ya I intend to move pensions when its all paid off.


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## peno

*Re: Pension Fraud*

I'd be very careful in just accepting the payback figure they suggest.

I was previously a pension consultant and from what i've read quickly here there are 3 parties at fault. Both the trustees and employer are in serious trouble if this is reported. I would say the trustees are in the most trouble as they seem to be aware the whole time what was happening.

The pension company may also be at fault maybe in the advise if any they were giving the company and trustees and also if they failed to whistleblow when they were fully aware a everything wasn't right.

In terms of the repayment. This seems to be a DC scheme so I would request a full listing of payments and dates that should have been paid what units they would have bought in the pension fund at these dates and the present value of these funds.

Your fund should then be credited with the same value at todays date. From what you outline above I would be very sceptical that this indeed is going to happen. 

You should ask that this payment schdule be prepared by the pension company and maybe request that your employer get it independantly reviewed for you.


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

What is a DC scheme?  Im thinking at this stage I am going to be lucky to even get back the money i give monthly not alone the gains I shold have made. 
If I get my money paid back should I then go and ask for the gains as I have or am not signing nothing for then to let them off the hook


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## ClubMan

_DC = Defined Contribution. _You make contributions and the final value of the pension fund depends on the performance of the assets/funds in which the money is invested.

_DB = Defined Benefit. _Once you make certain contributions certain pension benefits are guaranteed without (in theory) the unpredicatability of a _DC_ scheme.



jimmyd said:


> What is a DC scheme?  Im thinking at this stage I am going to be lucky to even get back the money i give monthly not alone the gains I shold have made.
> If I get my money paid back should I then go and ask for the gains as I have or am not signing nothing for then to let them off the hook


I still don't understand why you won't countenance reporting this to the _Pensions Board _or maybe even the _Gardai_!


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

Yes it is DC then,
@Clubman - The reason i am holding off reporting this is that if I report this that it could mean the end of the company as it is having tight financial times at the moment and can just see the light at the end of the tunnel from the hard times.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Pension Fraud*

If this light at the end of the tunnel is due, even in part, to defrauding employees then maybe the company does not deserve to survive?


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*

If it dosent survive then im dont my pension money and a job  - can you see where im coming from?


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## ClubMan

I don't think that you necessarily lose your pension. Isn't there some sort of compensation scheme for circumstances in which trustees and employers collude to defraud scheme members? I am also amazed that you are content to continue working here after all of this.


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## ang1170

*Re: Pension Fraud*



jimmyd said:


> Yes I was a director for 6 months with this company along with the 3 other directors and 2 of us stepped down at the same time due to not being brought to any management meetings or shown any money figures.


 
I presume you're aware that as a director you're entitled to examine any financial record of the company. Kind of important, bearing in mind if something is amiss, you can be held personally liable.

Anyway, the whole things smells like a ton of rotten haddock.

If what you say about the pension is true, it amounts to theft. 

I've been aware of similar situations before (where relatives were caught in similar situations), and from my experience things rarely get better. Different matter entirely if a company gets in trouble, calls everyone round, explains the situation, does what's necessary in terms of cutbacks or whatever: that deserves support. This doesn't: it deserves action to rectify it. Contact the Pensions boaid, and don't be fobbed off with "it's being sorted": believe me, the chances of it being sorted internally are minimal.


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## ang1170

*Re: Pension Fraud*



jimmyd said:


> If it dosent survive then im dont my pension money and a job - can you see where im coming from?


 
Yes, but you need to stand back and look at what's happened. You cannot trust these people: they've robbed and deceived you. 

There are other jobs, and you can pursue the pension issue separately. If there was fraud involved (and it sounds like there was) you can pursue the trustees and directors even if the company goes under. 

My advice: get legal advice. Most importantly though: take some action, and don't wait for it to get better.


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## ajapale

JimmyD,

Just a few questions.

Are you a member of a trade union?

What does your contract of employment say about EE/ER pension contributions?

Have you recieved annual pension statements?

Have you and your fellow employees looked at your payslips? Does it state that your (EE) deduction has been paid into the pension fund?

Have you contacted entemp.ie?

Are you actually an employee of the company or is there some other relationship  between you and the company.

aj


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## jimmyd

ajapale said:


> JimmyD,
> 
> Just a few questions.


 
Are you a member of a trade union?  *No*

What does your contract of employment say about EE/ER pension contributions? *I will check and edit
* 
Have you recieved annual pension statements? *No*

Have you and your fellow employees looked at your payslips? Does it state that your (EE) deduction has been paid into the pension fund?  *It does*

Have you contacted entemp.ie? *No*

Are you actually an employee of the company or is there some other relationship between you and the company. *Only an employee*


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## jimmyd

*Re: Pension Fraud*



ang1170 said:


> I presume you're aware that as a director you're entitled to examine any financial record of the company. Kind of important, bearing in mind if something is amiss, you can be held personally lible


 
I have looked into this and I dont think i will be  - there are a few clauses  as wheather i could be liable or not. -  i was never in any management meetings or was never given any figures and have numerous emails and lettters to the main director complaining about this. Also I am not a person who could be classed as a financial expert due to my job and this is one of the clauses.
I now also have writted proof that I only found out about the pension fraud last friday week.


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## jimmyd

ClubMan said:


> I don't think that you necessarily lose your pension. Isn't there some sort of compensation scheme for circumstances in which trustees and employers collude to defraud scheme members? I am also amazed that you are content to continue working here after all of this.


 
Does anyone know is there a compensation scheme ? If there is I am willing to go that route.


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## ang1170

*Re: Pension Fraud*



jimmyd said:


> I have looked into this and I dont think i will be - there are a few clauses as wheather i could be liable or not. - i was never in any management meetings or was never given any figures and have numerous emails and lettters to the main director complaining about this. Also I am not a person who could be classed as a financial expert due to my job and this is one of the clauses.
> I now also have writted proof that I only found out about the pension fraud last friday week.


 
I think you misunderstand the point I was making: you said that at one stage you were a director and you were prevented from seeing finacial records. My point was that you shouldn't have been prevented from doing this, as you had every right. This is one of the reasons I think the other directors are behaving in a very suspicious way, and are definitely not to be trusted.

I didn't mean to imply that you could be in any way responsible for the fraud (if indeed there was fraud): just make it clear that for the period you were a director information that you requested was deliberately witheld from you.


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## jimmyd

Sorry I did misunderstand you, Yes I was denied access to this information.


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## ang1170

jimmyd said:


> Sorry I did misunderstand you, Yes I was denied access to this information.


 
That in itself should ring a lot of alarm bells; the pension issue might just be the tip of an iceberg.


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## jimmyd

I need to find out today is there a compensation scheme and if there is I dont have to wait for them to pay it back over the next 3 months as i can report them and then claim my compensation.


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## South

jimmyd said:


> I need to find out today is there a compensation scheme and if there is I dont have to wait for them to pay it back over the next 3 months as i can report them and then claim my compensation.


The compensation scheme is not there to save fraudulent employers money!!


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## jimmyd

What i meant was that going by what all the posters have said there might be no chance or a slim chance that i am going to get any of my money back so if i know there is a scheme available to compensate me then I can do as everyone thinks i should do is report the company to the pensiosn broad and hey will try and pressure them into paying and if they dont pay i have a way i will be compensated.


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## South

ClubMan said:


> Isn't there some sort of compensation scheme for circumstances in which trustees and employers collude to defraud scheme members?


 
Are you thinking of the Pension Protection Fund in the UK?


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## ClubMan

No - something like this (red highlighting is mine)...


> *Ombudsman for Pensions
> 
> * The Ombudsman for Pensions has the power to investigate and determine your complaints concerning disputes of fact or law and errors in relation to occupational pension schemes and PRSAs. The Ombudsman has the power to give any directions necessary to resolve the complaint or dispute and can give financial compensation (redress) but this cannot exceed the actual loss of benefit under the occupational pension scheme or PRSA. The Ombudsman does not have the power to award legal costs. All decisions made by the Ombudsman are binding between the parties subject to a right of appeal by either party to the High Court


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## South

Ah yes the pensions ombudsman, good luck with that!!

The UK has a scheme wherein companies must contribute to a fund and this fund is used to compensate members who lose their pension money due to fraud/bankruptcy etc...


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## ClubMan

South said:


> The UK has a scheme wherein companies must contribute to a fund and this fund is used to compensate members who lose their pension money due to fraud/bankruptcy etc...


Is that separate from any other general savings/investments compensation fund like [broken link removed] for example and specific to pension funds?

What's the problem with the _Ombudsman for Pensions_?


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## South

No problem, just makes haste slowly - in any event the context of the Op's request was that he could make a claim for compensation without damaging the employer.

It is clear that the ombudsman will be going after the employer for the money, unlike the UK's PPF.


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## LDFerguson

I think the original poster is being over-cautious about the repercussions for his employer.  The Pensions Ombudsman has the power to pursue individuals for breaches of the Pensions Act in the event that the scheme itself cannot meet its liabilities.


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## Homer

Hi Jimmy

Before the Pension Ombudsman will consider a case, you must first go through an Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR) Procedure with the scheme trustees. 

Given what you've told us so far about the way your pension scheme is run, it sounds like there's a distinct possibility that there may not be an IDR procedure in place. If this is the case, it would be a further breach of the Pensions Act by the trustees.

You could try approaching the trustees and asking to see a copy of the IDR procedures. This might put the skids under them and cause them to rectify the underpayment sooner than might otherwise have been the case.

I would be concerned that if you go down the whistle blowing route at this stage, you may end up with nothing. Your best chance of getting some or all of your money back may be to extricate a firm promise from them that they will have dealt with the arrears within a specific period of time and tell them that if this does not happen you will have no choice but to report them to the Pensions Board. Then, follow through on the threat if they don't meet the agreed deadline.

I also agree with other posters that it sounds like it might be a good idea to start looking around for another job. It does not sound like a good place to work and it's much easier to find a new position while you're still employed.

Regards
Homer


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## jimmyd

Homer said:


> I would be concerned that if you go down the whistle blowing route at this stage, you may end up with nothing. Your best chance of getting some or all of your money back may be to extricate a firm promise from them that they will have dealt with the arrears within a specific period of time and tell them that if this does not happen you will have no choice but to report them to the Pensions Board. Then, follow through on the threat if they don't meet the agreed deadline.


 
Thats what Im thinking - I have been given a firm promise and a letter last week from the Managing Director stating what has happened and a timeframe to resolve it so i want to see if they will honor that.


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## South

jimmyd said:


> Thats what Im thinking - I have been given a firm promise and a letter last week from the Managing Director stating what has happened and a timeframe to resolve it so i want to see if they will honor that.


 
You obviously can't claim compensation at the same time as having a promise from your company to recompense you.


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## ang1170

jimmyd said:


> Thats what Im thinking - I have been given a firm promise and a letter last week from the Managing Director stating what has happened and a timeframe to resolve it so i want to see if they will honor that.


 
What's the timeframe like? have they agreed how much they owe you?

I'd be inclined to insist on an agreed timeframe such as (a) date by which they provide full historic records of pension payments etc. (b) date by which they have to provide a statement of how much they owe and (c) agreed repayment schedule, with these provided within a month (say) and the repayment schedule to last no longer than six months.

If they can't/won't agree to something like that, get that whistle out and start blowing....

Regardless of what happens, I'd be looking for a new job in the meantime.


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## South

ang1170 said:


> Regardless of what happens, I'd be looking for a new job in the meantime.


 
This point has been well made by about six posters at this stage...


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## jimmyd

Owe me €5600 in total, and said have said they will have 2K paid by end of september and 2K by end of november and then €1600 by end of january.
Now I can see all of this online and should be able to see from tomorrow my normal weekly payments going into the pension plan along with their repayments
The other 2 lads I know of in the scheme are only owed €800 each as they were not paying much into the plan where as I was paying max into it.


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## ClubMan

How are they paying this - e.g. into your hand (probably illegal tax evasion), via payroll (therefore liable for tax/_PRSI_), into the pension as backdated pension topup payments?

Are you losing out in terms of growth in the meantime and/or tax/_PRSI_ relief?


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## Homer

jimmyd said:


> Owe me €5600 in total, and said have said they will have 2K paid by end of september and 2K by end of november and then €1600 by end of january.
> Now I can see all of this online and should be able to see from tomorrow my normal weekly payments going into the pension plan along with their repayments
> The other 2 lads I know of in the scheme are only owed €800 each as they were not paying much into the plan where as I was paying max into it.


It sounds like they're taking their time about it.  Are you sure it's not just a stalling tactic?  Also, can you check that they are now paying over the correct contributions each month?

Homer


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## jimmyd

It's being paid to the pension company as pension topup payments.
@Homer - yes I can now see online when they pay anything to the pension company.


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## Seagull

Are they just paying in the value of the missing contributions, or are they paying in what those contributions would be worth now if they had gone in on time? If this has been going on for the last year, you should be looking for about 15% over the basic value of the missing contribution to make up for market appreciation.


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## Madangan

Jimmy,

I would get in writing from the Managing director  and all other relevant directors that if the repayments are not made by the company as agreed he will personally make them. I am thinking of a situation where the Company goes into receivership or liquidation before you are repaid in full.


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## jimmyd

@Seagull  - Just my payments and the companys 5% is all i am getting from what I have got in the letter they gave me - I didnt even think about how much i am losing out on.
@Madangan - would this be legally binding? does it need to be done by a solicitor?


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## Seagull

At this stage, the company would probably not welcome the attention of the revenue, pensions board or the gardai. I would say you have enough leverage to insist that your account be made good to the value it should be.
  Are you definitely also going to be getting the company 5%, bearing that your contract does give the company an option not to pay this. If you're getting that as well, it may be as well to leave it be at that. I would recommend you get any agreement in writing, and signed by the relevant director.


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## jimmyd

Yes I am getting the companys 5% aswell as my own contributions that is why i havent brought up the losses as yet with them. Is an email from the company director good enough or has it to be signed?


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## jimmyd

Heres the letter I got from the Director


Jimmyd Pension Scheme Details

Member Number  ***********
Owed by CompanyY  to Pension Company:
December 2004 to April 2006 employer contribution was only paid at 1% as opposed to the agreed 5%, the difference each month over this period was €101.66 bringing a total value owed to €1,728.22. When the monthly direct debit starts with Pension Company on the
8/8/2007  it will begin to pay off this balance and it will be completed on or before December end 2007.
Total amount due per month from May 2006 till July 2007 is €152.50 which will give a total of €2,287.50 owed by CompanyY to Pension Company. As per above when the direct debit commences at the above date it will pay off this balance and it will be completed on or before October end 2007. This figure represents employee contribution and 1% employer contribution.
During this period the difference between the 1% contribution and the agreed 5% contribution is €1,524.90 this will be paid in two lump sums on or before December end 2007.
As and from the 25th July 2007 all contributions taken from Company  as employer contributions will be at 5% until otherwise stated by both Jimmyd and DirectorX.

The company under the instruction of DirectorX took this step as an short term cost saving measure to help cash flow – this however proved to be a long term arrangement and was never either communicated to or agreed by Jimmyd, the fault of this and no communication rests solely with Director X as managing director.
This document is personally guaranteed by Director X, managing director Company.

DirectorX
Managing Director​


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## South

So the company is repaying the missing contributions but not the investment return missed out on.

Jimmy d - are you okay with that?

You are probably down something like €500.


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## jimmyd

If I get all back all as per his letter I'll be happy as their 5% contribution is good and then I will drop out of the company pension plan or else monitor it monthly sinc eI now have a login to the pension company website


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## jimmyd

2 months later and no payments - reported them today but It looks like they are planning on going into volantary liquidation and I dont think after that I can do anything to get the pension.
Any idea's? Or have I made a big mistake and left it to late?


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## z109

Can you apply to have them made bankrupt as a creditor? You might not get your money back (depends on how much is in the company, I suppose), but it will stop them being directors for a while.

This has some useful info:
[broken link removed]

It looks as though (on a very speed reading) you cannot claim on a voluntary liquidation without going through the courts. It also looks as though a director may be personally liable in the event of fraud (i.e. stealing your pension!), so even if you get nothing out of the liquidation process, you may be able to sue the directors.

Not sure if this helps you, or provides you with a stick to beat them with to pay up!


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## asdfg

Contact the pension board immediately. 

Ask them if the company does go into voluntary liquidation and if money is owed to the pension scheme, can it be classed as money owed to employee if so you may be classed as a preferential creditor. 

Maybe other contributors can also answer the question.


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## Seagull

Time for a visit to the gardai. Report them for theft/fraud. A jail sentence will definitely prevent them from acting as directors for a while.


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## jimmyd

asdfg said:


> Contact the pension board immediately.
> 
> Ask them if the company does go into voluntary liquidation and if money is owed to the pension scheme, can it be classed as money owed to employee if so you may be classed as a preferential creditor.
> 
> Maybe other contributors can also answer the question.


 
The pension board said If the company goes into liquidation then they doubt I can get my money.


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## jimmyd

Came across this in the insolvency payments form from etemp.ie

ARREARS OF PENSION OR PRSA CONTRIBUTIONS
The Insolvency Payments Scheme covers contributions which the employer and/or the employee were liable to pay into an occupational pension scheme in respect of the year up to the date of insolvency of the employer. In the case of contributions payable on behalf of an employee, payment can be made under the Insolvency Payments Scheme only where the amount of the contributions was deducted from the pay of the employee but was not paid into the pension scheme. In the case of contributions payable on an employer's own account, the lower of the following amounts is 
payable
a) the balance of the employer's contributions remaining unpaid in respect of the period of twelve months immediately preceding the date of the employer's insolvency, or
b) the amount certified by an actuary (or equivalent, if the employer is insolvent under the legislation of another EU Member State) to be necessary for the purpose of meeting the liability of a pension scheme on dissolution to pay the benefits provided by the scheme to or in respect of the employees concerned.

Where a pension scheme does not provide for the liability described at (b), only (a) will apply.
Similar entitlements and conditions apply to unpaid PRSA contributions.
If the cost of sickness, disability benefit or life assurance forms part of the contributions to an occupational pension scheme or PRSA, the amount of contributions attributable to this should be deducted from the application.
The application for payment of outstanding contributions should be made on Form EIP6. Part 1 of the Form should be completed by a person competent to act in respect of the scheme. Part 2 of the Form should be completed by the insolvent employer's representative, who should send the Form to the Department. A Form EIP7 (Actuarial Certificate) is required where an employer’s contributions are claimed and a pension scheme provides for a liability described at (b) above. Details of the occupational pension scheme or PRSA and supporting documents should be submitted with an application.

Might be worth looking at for me.


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## RainyDay

You might want to involve the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement.


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## ang1170

If you've evidence of fraud, which it seems you have, the directors are liable to criminal prosecution. Even if this doesn't happen, limited company protection doesn't apply (i.e. normal rules about who gets paid in what order the event of a liquidation), as the directors will be held to be personally liable.

I'd say it's time for you to get profressional legal advice (as well as contacting Pensions Board and Director of Corporate Enforcement, as others have suggested).


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## jimmyd

I have a meeting for legal advise Friday - Both directors know they are liable for alot of money as they had personally signed for loans.
As for fraud it has been reported this to the pension board by a co worker.


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## jimmyd

An Update: Got my pension cheque last wenesday from the Managing director and lodged it that morning so fingers crossed it has until thursday morning of this week to clear , The company has since closed but I had this illegal act as leverage over them and he ended up paying me and 2 of the others from the scheme so just 1 chap has to be paid yet.
Was given it in a cheque - not into my pension scheme


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## z109

jimmyd said:


> An Update: Got my pension cheque last wenesday from the Managing director and lodged it that morning so fingers crossed it has until thursday morning of this week to clear , The company has since closed but I had this illegal act as leverage over them and he ended up paying me and 2 of the others from the scheme so just 1 chap has to be paid yet.
> Was given it in a cheque - not into my pension scheme


You should probably set up a PRSA or something and transfer the money in there, otherwise you may be liable for tax on it? Perhaps the money-wonks can give you the low-down on that one?


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## ClubMan

yoganmahew said:


> the money-wonks


Huh!?


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## z109

ClubMan said:


> Huh!?


[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan

I guess I'm not wonky enough to have heard that term before!


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## z109

ClubMan said:


> I guess I'm not wonky enough to have heard that term before!


I confess. I only heard it today and liked it!


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## Seagull

As I understand it, with the changes in the pensions act about trustees' responsibilities, whoever was acting as the trustees of your pension can be held partially responsible for not ensuring the pension was run in compliance with the law.


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## LDFerguson

Seagull said:


> As I understand it, with the changes in the pensions act about trustees' responsibilities, whoever was acting as the trustees of your pension can be held partially responsible for not ensuring the pension was run in compliance with the law.


 
I'd bet that the company was the Trustee.


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## Seagull

The trustee has to be an individual. 

I'd still say try to get all responsible parties prosecuted. They have been in significant breach of pensions law, and sounds like they could possibly be hit for more serious crimes as well.


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## boaber

Seagull said:


> The trustee has to be an individual.



Not necessarily.

The Employer (i.e. the company) can be the trustee.

Anyone who can sign for the co, eg Director, Co. Secretary can act on behalf of the trustees


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## jimmyd

It was a person - the managing directors wife , I dont even know if she knew she was the trustee as i think he just put her down as it.


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