# Energy saving bulbs



## Ash (19 Nov 2005)

Energy saving bulbs can be very expensive.
Does anyone know anywhere they're reasonably priced?  Major supermarket chains? Atlantic? Woodies?  Builders providers? Independent hardware stores?
We're talking about six or ten.
The benefit of your eyes and ears on this would be great.


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## ClubMan (19 Nov 2005)

See .


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## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

Maplin are currently doing offers on long _CFLs _(11W 4 pack for €9.99 reduced from €16.49) and "spiral" _CFLs _(11W 4 pack €16.49 reduce from €24.99) in case that's of any interest to anybody.


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## z102 (22 Nov 2005)

Check the life time in hours. Printed on the pack. The spiral ones got a very bad rating from the Swiss consumers organisation.
Test report see [broken link removed]
Winner (price-performance) was IKEA standard.
Best note for Ikea standard, Osram deluxe EL longlife, Osram duluxe EL facility, Osram duluxe Classic A.
Second best: Ikea Globe, Philips Ecotone PL-T Pro, Osram Duluxe EL Economy, Sunlux Standard, Philips Ecotone Economy, Swisslights Half-Spot M.
Third place ( and not recommended mainly due to failed lifetime):Nover Nosec E,Swisslights Globe M(Microlight AG), Sunlux Ambiente, Sylvania Mini-Lynx Economy.
Test results were released in 8/2003.


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## soy (23 Nov 2005)

Recently got Nov bill from ESB and enclosed was a leaflet about upcoming promotion for 1/2 price CFL's that will run late Nov until end 2005


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## Ash (23 Nov 2005)

soy said:
			
		

> Recently got Nov bill from ESB and enclosed was a leaflet about upcoming promotion for 1/2 price CFL's that will run late Nov until end 2005



But where can one buy these bulbs on promotion?  Aren't all the ESB stores closed?

Very useful advice everyone.  I might be near a Maplins this week and will check them out.  Thanks again.


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## agencydude (23 Nov 2005)

Hi ,
After checking around at prices ,I got energy saving bulbs in Dunnes stores in Cornelscourt .
A 100Watt energy saving bulb that looks similar to an ordinary bulb is €5.99

The same bulb costs €6.95 in PowerCity  in Sallynoggin and €9.99 in Tescos in Ballybrack


A 100 watt energy saving bulb that doesn't look like an ordinary bulb is €4.99 in Dunnes in Cornelscourt


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## ClubMan (24 Nov 2005)

I'm still dubious about the benefit of these energy saving bulbs in many cases. After all lighting costs will generally be a tiny fraction of the overall electricity costs of a premises (household or business). I reckon that, on a cost benefit basis, the money could be better spend addressing other energy efficiency issues. It's amazing the number of people who will go out and spend up to a tenner on an energy saving lightbulb and happily sit back assuming that they are saving the earth and money at the same time while elsewhere they have, for example, no lagging jacket on their immersion tank or no insulation in their attic.


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## soy (24 Nov 2005)

The ESB thing said that it was a promotion at various retailers though there is no sign of anything on their website as to who these retailers are. It was for GE and Phillips bulbs and they were being advertised at about 5 euro. So maybe that is what Dunnes are selling???


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## Deirdra (25 Nov 2005)

I agree with Clubman and they look so awful. they start to fade when they wear out. Make more serious savings elesewhere - get a composter etc etc


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## z102 (26 Nov 2005)

*Re: Energy saving bulbs* 30-40% electricity savings are achieved when using cfl lamps. Unless one is so "wise" and heats the premise with electricity. Check the SEI page.
Composting can turn out expensive if one doesn't consume the products growing on the compost. Most households are not growing edible products with the aid of their compost. Ireland still isn't implementing the EU water protection bill , dumps of organic material will detoriate the water quality because leachings will eventually pollute it. 30% of all households have to consume filthy water already (the highest rate in the EU) due to nutrients leaching into the water. And the gouvernment has to spend millions of taxes on upgrading only the worst cases.


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## ClubMan (26 Nov 2005)

heinbloed said:
			
		

> *Re: Energy saving bulbs* 30-40% electricity savings are achieved when using cfl lamps. Unless one is so "wise" and heats the premise with electricity.


 I find it hard to believe that an average household is not heated primarily by electricity can save 30-40% on their bills by simply using _CFLs_. Perhaps you can link to the specific page to which you are referring above please because I could not find it.



> Composting can turn out expensive if one doesn't consume the products growing on the compost.


 Why?


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## z102 (28 Nov 2005)

Well, my own bill shows that 30-40% savings can be achieved. I replaced all tungsten bulbs ( realy, all bulbs) and saved around that number, dependending on the season. I must add that the domestic hot water in my home is nor coupled to electricity, except for the pump, which is another sort of heating.
Composting in the common sense means nothing else but dumping to-be-released nutrients in the back garden.These nutrients will -sooner or later- end up in the  well/river/lake on which the private/common well depends on. Once the limits have been met the search is up for a new source.That costs money.
Growing something edible with the aid of the composted nutrients (which would end up in the loo) is a different thing-unless one has the well next to the septic tank.Think big.  
Dumping rubbish in the garden can work out cheap once it is sure that others bear the future costs.


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## ClubMan (28 Nov 2005)

heinbloed said:
			
		

> Well, my own bill shows that 30-40% savings can be achieved. I replaced all tungsten bulbs ( realy, all bulbs) and saved around that number


 I thought that you were referring to some information on the _SEI _site above which explained the 30-40% saving. I take it that you were not and that this was just your own particular saving?



> I must add that the domestic hot water in my home is nor coupled to electricity, except for the pump, which is another sort of heating.


 Out of interest how do you heat your water and the house?



> Composting in the common sense means nothing else but dumping to-be-released nutrients in the back garden.These nutrients will -sooner or later- end up in the well/river/lake on which the private/common well depends on. Once the limits have been met the search is up for a new source.That costs money.


 So composting is no better than landfill?



> Growing something edible with the aid of the composted nutrients (which would end up in the loo) is a different thing-unless one has the well next to the septic tank.


 I don't understand the second part about the well and the septic tank - maybe you can explain?



> Think big.


 I thougth that the catchphrase was _"think global, act local" _and that composting and the like was to be encouraged?



> Dumping rubbish in the garden can work out cheap once it is sure that others bear the future costs.


 Composting is not the same as dumping rubbish in the garden. After all what about all the creepy crawlies and microbes that break down the composted material? You might as well blame earthworms and woodlice for our pollution problems the way you are arguing matters here as far as I can see.


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## z102 (28 Nov 2005)

Now, before ending up in a long detailed discussion-I like those- I have to tell you that my experience is the stated. Over the entire year I save around 35 % of electric energy by using CFL bulbs. The exact number depends on if I take my hollydays in winter or summer.
The SEI page gives a similar information- logical.These numbers are similar to the rest of the world. The composting debate was fought by all economists around the world since the existence of an econimical thinking of early mankind: if you don't need it don't create it.Or in other words:why should a farmer throw fertiliser into the well ?!
Dumping rubbish is the same as composting as long as there is no use for the compost, may be I didn't make that clear enough ?!
If you grow the food/material that you need with the aims that you have freely available than you are working for the benefit of yourself and your community. But if you dump these aims then you're dumping your future in this place. Nomads live this way, or "travellers" as they are called here. In a few years it might bear fruit- or not. We'll see and settle accordingly....


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## ClubMan (28 Nov 2005)

heinbloed said:
			
		

> Dumping rubbish is the same as composting as long as there is no use for the compost, may be I didn't make that clear enough ?!


No - you spoke specifically about growing edible plants with it. Many gardeners use it to grow flowers etc. for show. Are you saying that this use of it is undesirable? 

Anyway, back to my original point - even if you saved up to 40% of your electricity costs by using energy saving lightbulbs I hardly think that this would be representative and applicable to most people. I reckon that most people would gain more return for lower cost by attending to other issues with their houses (e.g. attic insulation, immersion insulation, draughty doors/windows, better thermostatic control of heating, energy efficient appliance etc.). Of course, once they had attended to the big things then they can probably squeeze even further savings by attending to things like efficient lighting etc. 

I'm still curious as to how you heat your home/water if energy efficient lighting yields a 40% saving on your electricity costs. A more comprehensive analysis of this issue would probably involve calculating the "carbon footprint" for your home and comparing it to others. Taking the electricity costs in isolation may be skewing things a bit?


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## paddyc (28 Nov 2005)

Can anyone tell me if they have come across anywhere selling energy saving down lighers ? I have been told they do exist but haven't seen them anywhere


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## Carpenter (28 Nov 2005)

I believe the new technology in this area is LED, but the lamps are very expensive and give out little light apparently.


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## moneypitt (29 Nov 2005)

agencydude said:
			
		

> A 100Watt energy saving bulb that looks similar to an ordinary bulb is €5.99



I got one of these 20W bulbs (soft tone, light output similar to 100W tungsten) and have to say its pretty good. I find them great for hall, landing etc where they remain lit for hours every night.


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## z102 (1 Dec 2005)

To paddyc:                                                                                      Ikea sells energy saving down lighters(around 5€, with a small screw fitting), but check the homepage of the manufacturers as well (Phillips,Osram etc.).
And to Clubman:
As long as nutrients are thrown into the garden they are either absorbed by the growing plants or they are leached into the ground water table.Only nitrogen would go into the air under certain circumstances. But plants don't grow all the time, in winter for example they simply stop. And when they have reached maturity they die as well, releasing the nutrients again. So sooner or later all compost receiving gardens become ground water polluters. Unless one eats the growing products or makes toilet articles from them (paper, soap etc.) . Than the nutrients would end up in the sewer instead, feeding the fish and so be recycled into natures food chain. Without effecting the ground water.
Farmers using sewage sludge from the sewage treatment plant do that to
 replace mineral fertilizer. If done so by competent farmers it would benefit the environment by saving the energy for the artificial fertilizer.
What did you mean exactly with the phrase  "composting and the like"? 
CFLs?
Now, my  percentage numbers on saving electricity are beeing  confirmed not only by the SEI but also by most civil engeneers , by the ESB (!) , the Bank managers of Ireland (have you seen a bank foyer with out CFLs?) and by most shop/supermarket managers.
That is of course -we speak about percentages- if you use the electricity not for heating the home,the ratio would be a different one. Nevertheless a considerable saving is achived by using them.
You wanted to know how I heat my home. I use a modulating combi condensing boiler.So the circulation pump and the electric circuits in the boiler as well as the room thermostats combined with automatic valves at the heating circuits are the only electricity users for heating and warm tap water. All together not more than 0.13 kw/h, similar to one or two tungsten bulbs, if on full demand. But the boiler allows also for warm tap water with out the heating beeing turned on, using than 0.035kw/h of electricity. Similar to a weak tungsten bulb.
I hope that shed some light.


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## Vanilla (2 Dec 2005)

Saw an interesting ref in a magazine to green cones, which I hadn't heard of before. These apparently take all food waste including meat and convert into oxygen and CO2- apparently odourlessly. Might be a small help. [broken link removed]


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## z102 (2 Dec 2005)

Thanks Vanilla! The green cone is an other composter on the market. The question is: Where do the nutrients go? Nitrate, phosphate,kalium and all the trace elements.Whilest they are good plant food there is naturally a saturation point. Since Liebig we know that an overdose of nutrients will either demage plant growth or make it impossible at all. Similar to some desserts. Neither around the salpeter mines in Chili nor on the guano islands is any plant growth. But here in Ireland with our rainfall this situation would hardly appear with back garden composting,  the nutrients will be washed into the ground/surface water. On which our drinking water supplys depend on.
I just read an article in the papers that the people of Limerick have to enjoy a nasty bug (E.coli 0157) with their tap water because of  leakages. Where the bacterias go the nutrients are already.They feed on them.
So if more and more amateur composting goes on -without nutrient harvesting-  our already badly treated water ways will get worse. 30 % of the Irish population has no ready access to clean water, will back garden composting increase this number?


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## z102 (4 Dec 2005)

Here is a good calculator, from the ESB, delivering the total savings as well as the pay back time: [broken link removed]


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## alligator (6 Dec 2005)

Carpenter said:
			
		

> I believe the new technology in this area is LED, but the lamps are very expensive and give out little light apparently.


 
Yes, I have read about this too. LED's can give light constantly for 11 years. I saw Craig David had them all over his house on mtv show cribs  It was also possible to change the light to any colour in every room.


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## z102 (6 Dec 2005)

Don't be fooled. LED's are no good to read a book or to illuminate a work place.They are a very good alternative solution if it comes to mark a spot at dark , for example a traffic light or a traffic sign. Or a light switch.
But they give out very little Lumen, that is the unit to measure the intensity of light.
The ones that change colour are very expensive, as far as I know.


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## NiallA (7 Dec 2005)

heinbloed said:
			
		

> .
> Composting in the common sense means nothing else but dumping to-be-released nutrients in the back garden.


 
Composting is the aerobic decomposition of organic material with the act of various bacteria, worms etc.

In landfills there is no oxygen, so the decomposition occurs anerobically, which gives rise to leachate and landfill gas (methane, 4 times worse greenhouse gas than CO2).

Composting is very different to dumping.  For this reason the EU require that all ountries reduce the amount of organic waste going to landfill.


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## Ash (21 Dec 2005)

Ash said:
			
		

> Energy saving bulbs can be very expensive.
> Does anyone know anywhere they're reasonably priced?  Major supermarket chains? Atlantic? Woodies?  Builders providers? Independent hardware stores?
> We're talking about six or ten.
> The benefit of your eyes and ears on this would be great.



I finally got round to visiting Maplins in B'town but they hadn't any bulk deals on energy saving bulbs.
Saw some Phillips Softone in Atlantic.  Price on shelf was €6.49 each.  Or so I thought.  At the checkout was asked for €9.49.  I wasn't in the mood to argue so I just left them.  
Was in Dunnes a few minutes later and saw same bulbs.  Price on shelf was €6.49 each and that's what I was asked to pay at check out.

The method of pricing on shelves and using a barcode as opposed to individual pricing can be awkward.  It is impossible to watch the price of each item as it is being scanned and particularly if there's a few items to be totted up, price discrepencies can go unnoticed until too late.  Who the hell wants to join another queue in the shops this time of year?

Another thing about Atlantic.  Had a number of purchased items to carry to car parked virtually in the next county but Atlantic offered only a single paltry bag to carry them in.  Who in truth goes to places like Atlantic with their Tesco/Dunnes shopping bags in tow?  Bad form Atlantic.


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## z102 (21 Dec 2005)

Well, that’s the reason why retailers in Ireland fear IKEA as the devil fears the holy water. Not only would the products be cheaper but the service and the staff would be better as well.
Concerning the Cfls the German consumer magazine “test” , January 2006 issue, page 71, published the latest test results on their Cfl testing. The fastest amortisation (pay back) time have the Cfls from Ikea consuming11W, after 80(eighty!) hours running time you would have your investment saved. That gives plenty of saving for the expected 10.000 hours lifetime ,depending on the price you pay for the electricity of course. The described Ikea’s Cfls cost as little as €1.50 (one Euro and fifty cents!) each when bought in packs of three in Germany. 
The test by Stiftung Warentest is still running, since 2004, some Cfl’s gave it up very early, others are still delivering.


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## Decani (21 Dec 2005)

Followers of this thread might be interested to have a read down this active, long thread over on boards.ie.


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## ClubMan (21 Dec 2005)

Ash said:
			
		

> Price on shelf was €6.49 each.  Or so I thought.  At the checkout was asked for €9.49.  I wasn't in the mood to argue so I just left them.


I've never had any problems with pricing of items in _Maplin _other than the odd € prices that they have due to conversion from GBP£. I presume you mean that you didn't make the purchase? Perhaps it was an honest mistake?


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## Ash (22 Dec 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I've never had any problems with pricing of items in _Maplin _other than the odd € prices that they have due to conversion from GBP£. I presume you mean that you didn't make the purchase? Perhaps it was an honest mistake?



Clubman, the discrepancy described above in the shelf and check-out prices happened in Atlantic, not in Maplins.  Maplins were fine, they just didn't have the bulbs in bulk when I was there.

Perhaps the error in Atlantic was an honest mistake.  I don't know for sure.   I didn't buy the bulbs there.  I left them at the check-out and only took the other items.  

I was in Tesco since then and noticed that Philips Softone energy saving bulbs on sale there were priced at c. €9.49 and c €6.49, for the equivavlent of 40w and 60w.  Could there be such a huge difference for these items?  Maybe that difference explains the difference in prices?  Although the bulbs I attempted to buy in Atlantic and those I bought in Dunne's WERE the same wattage.


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## ClubMan (22 Dec 2005)

Ash said:
			
		

> Clubman, the discrepancy described above in the shelf and check-out prices happened in Atlantic, not in Maplins.  Maplins were fine, they just didn't have the bulbs in bulk when I was there.


Sorry - misread your post above! 

Funnily enough I was charged €19.95 for a _CD _labelled €14.95 (and scanned at the checkout) in _Golden Discs _on _Henry Street _today. I pointed it out and received the €5 back but if I had said nothing I would have been out of pocket.


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## olddog (23 Dec 2005)

FWIW I recently bought some 15000 Hr rated CFLs in a Sainsbury branch for around GBP2.50 each

( last thing I expected to find there )


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## maura (5 Jan 2006)

I bought some 20w (100w) energy saving light bulbs in Roches, with 20% off in their sale the price was €6.95, I was in Tesco later in the week and their price was €6.49 with no sale on.  These are the ones that look like the usual lightbulbs.


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## Gordanus (5 Jan 2006)

I have my doubts about the efficacy of the energy savings bulbs.  I would normally use an ordinary 60W bulb to read by, but have to use the 'equivalent to 100W' energy savings bulbs to be able to read!


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## dennigerz (12 Mar 2009)

Go to IKEA in Belfast, 2 energy saver bulbs for £2, can't go wrong with that, saying that, it was before Christmas when i was there so they may have gone up in price again


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## RMCF (12 Mar 2009)

dennigerz said:


> Go to IKEA in Belfast, 2 energy saver bulbs for £2, can't go wrong with that, saying that, it was before Christmas when i was there so they may have gone up in price again



If you are looking for cheap bulbs gotta check out the likes of Tesco's.

Now I'm not sure if the RoI Tesco's do the same deals, but there are some amazing deals in the NI Tesco's for bulbs.

I recently got 3 bulbs for 88p !! I bought a load of them, and I think the next week they were doing 5 for £1. I have even seen some of the deals in the North as low as 5 for 40p. Now these might not be the brighest bulbs, but they are a bargain.

I think that they can sell them so cheap as they are subsidised by the UK Gov or energy firms. Same as the loft insulation for £1 per roll in B&Q in the North. 

Same offers may not apply down South.


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