# I lodged to the wrong account



## bfirotax (13 Jul 2009)

I did an online bank transfer. I got the sort code right and I got a digit wrong on the account number. Its a quite a lot of money. The bank cannot divulge the name of the person whom I lodged the money to. They said that they had to contact that person directly. Actually I dont know if its a person or a business account. What are my options?. Can I legally demand the money back?


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Jul 2009)

Hi 

This could be a serious problem for you. 

Check out this thread and a few others where people have made mistakes.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=75897

Brendan


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## banter (13 Jul 2009)

This happened to me before. I was a very very very long and drawn out case to get my money back so please forgive me if I give you a little background information before detailing how I got some of my money back.
In my case I inputed all the correct information (sort code, account code, benificary name etc) but I made a mistake on the IBAN code. The bank I used is a well known Irish bank, but suprisingly their computer system made no cross check between IBAN code and sort code/account number.  Hence their system looked at the IBAN code, ignored everything else and sent the money on. I asked the banks to sort it but they never did. 
Heres how I got my money back. I searched google with the IBAN code I entered, and fortunately I found out who the money went to. Then I contacted them directly. After they established that they had recieved the money, confirmed my identity they sent me the money back. I lost a large percentage of my money due to currency changes in the the time this whole process took place.
So what I am saying is if you can establish whom the money went to, contact them personally and explain your situation, you may get your money back.
Regarding dealing with your bank I advise you keep everthing in email, get name of whom you are dealing with each time and ask to be speak directly with supervisor. Then log every call (time, date, name etc). Otherwise you will end up explaining your case to several different people. 
I hope this is of some help.


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## bfirotax (13 Jul 2009)

Brendan said:


> Hi
> 
> This could be a serious problem for you.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks and I appreciate that. Assuming the worst. That they play dumb. Assuming I discover who received the payment (if I am really lucky). I know its someone with  the Ulster bank in Dublin. But if they dither and refuse to pay me can I legally go after them without high court stuff etc. I would like to resolve this amicably but the sum involved is approx €10k and the beneficiary might not be willing to give it back. Last thing I need is to lose that because the person I was supposed to pay is still looking for his money. Oh what a damn mess. In future its cheques only. 
Honestly any advice whether my situation is hopeful or hopeless is much appreciated.
My accountant has told me I havent a prayer because the bank cannot divulge the name of the account holder who received it and that the person who received it in error will just ignore the issue
Surely, surely even in this stupid situation and this mad country they should be obliged BY LAW to hand back what is not rightfully theirs. Time is of the essence because the longer I am waiting the less chance I have


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## mercman (13 Jul 2009)

There is an interesting case a few years ago when the Bank transferred money in error to a persons account, and they withdrew it and refused to hand it back. It got a bit dirty but the Bank got thick and got their money back.

Now instead of talking to your accountant, surely you would be better served contacting your solicitor.


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## QED (14 Jul 2009)

I have heard before of cases where an employee was overpaid or was paid for a while after they had left a company. There was never any doubt that they had to repay the excess received and I was under the impression that this was covered by law. 

Why is this situation any different?


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2009)

In law, of course the OP is entitled to their money back.

But if they can't identify the person to whom it was paid, how can they enforce this? 

Even if they identify the person and the person refuses, it will take a lot of legal action to get it back. 

Brendan


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## MaryBe (14 Jul 2009)

It seems to be the case that when the Bank lodge funds to an incorrect account the Bank CAN withdraw these funds but when it comes to joe bloggs making the same mistake it's a long drawn out process to rectify the problem.  The funds came from YOUR bank at YOUR request and therefore I do not understand why the bank will not accept YOUR request to undo the error.


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## bfirotax (14 Jul 2009)

MaryBM said:


> It seems to be the case that when the Bank lodge funds to an incorrect account the Bank CAN withdraw these funds but when it comes to joe bloggs making the same mistake it's a long drawn out process to rectify the problem. The funds came from YOUR bank at YOUR request and therefore I do not understand why the bank will not accept YOUR request to undo the error.


 

What the Bank are saying is that its my own fault and yes I know that. They are saying that they cannot take the money out without the permission of the account holder whom so far is now apparently not taking the calls. I asked for the information, contact details so I could ask them myself or even negotiate a "settlement" but they say that under privacy laws they are not allowed to divulge that information without the account holders permission. I dont even know for sure if the Bank are even doing anything to help because they do seem to have an attitude that its either not their problem or that there is nothing that they can do.

PS I asked the bank if they would negotiate on my behalf and they said that they could'nt \ would'nt do that either which true or false is irrelevant its just thats their stance. Meanwhile I am big time out of pocket


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## Mpsox (14 Jul 2009)

You've said that the money has been transferred to an account in UB. Assuming your own bank is not UB, then you bank simply would not be in a position to know who the UB customer is, not alone pass on their contact details. Banks have a legal duty of confidentiallity towards their customers.

However, if you are not satisfied with how your own bank is dealing with this then I suggest you ask for a copy of their complaints procedures and file a formal complaint. If you don't get your funds back then you will need to do this before taking any case to the Financial Services Ombudsman

Secondly I suggest you contact UB College green and ask them if they can identify the customer involved(if you know the dates involved, they should be able to), and then ask them to see if they will freeze the funds pending resolution. They probably won't but no harm in asking. If the UB customer is a corporate customer (and UB College Green is their largest branch for corporate customers), then even if they won't tell you who the customer is, ask them to ask the relationship manager in the branch to speak to the customer on your behalf. 

Make sure you follow up with everything in writing so you have a full record of your actions if this does go to court

You could also contact IPSO and see if they can help. IPSO are the industry self regulatory body for payments and they lay down and enfore the "clearing rules" for cheque and electronic payments. They may be able to advise you as to some other options.  for more information


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## so-crates (14 Jul 2009)

MaryBM said:


> It seems to be the case that when the Bank lodge funds to an incorrect account the Bank CAN withdraw these funds but when it comes to joe bloggs making the same mistake it's a long drawn out process to rectify the problem. The funds came from YOUR bank at YOUR request and therefore I do not understand why the bank will not accept YOUR request to undo the error.


 
Because logically, MaryBM, it would not do. What would then stop an unscrupulous individual from declaring that they made a "mistake" and insist on getting a payment they made back? It would certainly present opportunities for fraud and theft. The bank is acting as your agent in terms of processing a transaction, if the agent makes a mistake, it is up to the agent to rectify it, if you make the mistake it is up to you.


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## bfirotax (14 Jul 2009)

Mpsox said:


> You've said that the money has been transferred to an account in UB. Assuming your own bank is not UB, then you bank simply would not be in a position to know who the UB customer is, not alone pass on their contact details. Banks have a legal duty of confidentiallity towards their customers.
> 
> However, if you are not satisfied with how your own bank is dealing with this then I suggest you ask for a copy of their complaints procedures and file a formal complaint. If you don't get your funds back then you will need to do this before taking any case to the Financial Services Ombudsman
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for that and I will follow up on your advice. I spoke with a solicitor and basically I am somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place. I cannot take an action against the bank because they did no wrong and I cannot take an action against the person who received the money because I dont know who they are. If I knew I could follow up but because this happened a month or so ago (I didnt realise until the true creditor came chasing his payment) the likelihood is that the receiver will have spent some of the money. While the solicitor hasnt come accross this before he suggested that a legal route would be expensive and in real terms I might get a judgement (though unlikely as its my mistake) he felt I had no real chance of actually getting the cash back. That would mean €10k gone plus legal costs which could be even more. It really is starting to look like a case of money left inadvertantly in the street and just disappearing


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## Complainer (14 Jul 2009)

I'm sure you don't want to hear 'I told you so's, but I think this case highlights potential dangers in Internet banking. Some banks force you to speak to an operator to set up a new payee, and I presume the operators go through some extra validation checks. Personally, I always make a test payment with a new payee, as I did recently with the ESB. I made a payment of a tenner, and checked after a week or so that they had recieved this before making a full payment.


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## csirl (14 Jul 2009)

If this were a lodgement slip in the branch lodgement, then the OP would have a strong case as the account name and address would not match the account number. So if the money was lodged in the wrong account then the bank is liable as if the name/address doesnt match the account number, the lodgement process should fail and the money be returned to the customer.

Was the recipients name/address or any other details included with the online transfer?


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## bfirotax (14 Jul 2009)

csirl said:


> If this were a lodgement slip in the branch lodgement, then the OP would have a strong case as the account name and address would not match the account number. So if the money was lodged in the wrong account then the bank is liable as if the name/address doesnt match the account number, the lodgement process should fail and the money be returned to the customer.
> 
> Was the recipients name/address or any other details included with the online transfer?


 
This is the amazing thing. There is NO cross referencing between account name, sort code and account number. If you key in the correct sort code and an incorrect account number but if that account number is a valid account then the money gets made. Rediculous but true


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## Mpsox (14 Jul 2009)

bfirotax said:


> This is the amazing thing. There is NO cross referencing between account name, sort code and account number. If you key in the correct sort code and an incorrect account number but if that account number is a valid account then the money gets made. Rediculous but true


 
Correct, Banking systems use a mathematical alogrithim and basically take the 6 digits of the sortcode, 8 digits of the account number and perform a calculation on them. If the answer is a certain number, the system decides it is a valid account and accepts the transaction. However it does not check that the account number is the one that the person intended the money to go to. In fairness, i can't imagine it would be easy to automatically tie the sortcode and account number back to a named person without having lots more transactions rejected


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