# Has anyone gone abroad to go bankrupt?



## Tomorrow

Hi all

I was at a course last week in Belfast.

The course focused on the different methods of insolvency in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

During the course of the day, the presenter talked about 'Bankruptcy tourism'. 

Where people from Ireland are moving to UK or elsewhere, working for a few months, decaring themselves bankrupt and therefore escaping Irish debts.

If the UK is the country of choice, you are bankrupt for 12 months and are then debt free.

I find this unbelievable and of course its immoral but apparently it is happening. The presenter (an insolvency practitioner) has personal experience of this practice.

And, of course when we look at what David Drum is trying to do, it all makes sense.

I was just wondering if anyone has had personal experience of this?


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## Robin Banks

Tomorrow said:


> I find this unbelievable and of course its immoral but apparently it is happening.


 
It is not immoral.

If it is legal then it's fine. Go for it.

Morals my foot. Just ask any of our bankrupt developer "class" with millions of euros worth of assets transferred into the wife's name.

Don't be a chump.


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## Bronte

I'm with Robin Banks on this.  There are no morals anymore in relation to debt and financial institutions when I see what the banks, developers, the legal and political class have done, can do and continue to do.  Certainly I feel I was naive about this before.  My whole view of this has changed in the last year.


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## PiedPiper

*Hi*

Well my bank opened an account in my name without even telling me how morally bankrupt are they.  If the rule book is to be thrown out for one then its out for all.


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## Tomorrow

It is immoral, however - if I was in that position I would probably do the same and if I had a close friend or family member who was in difficulty I would also advise them to bankrupt themselves in the UK.

Afterall - whats good enough for bankers is good enough for everyone else.... This could be the NAMA for the little people!


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## marti18

i find this hard to believe and honestly think its impossible. why because just say you had a business here in ROI that went bust. going on this topic the person can simply live up north for 12months and work there. after the 12 months you can come back to ROI debt free!!!  find it really hard to believe that its possible

also whats happens if you were a sole trader and your business went wallop   ST is responsible for all debt!!!!!


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## Tomorrow

I found it very hard to believe as well, it was one of the reasons I posted in the first place.

However, its true - google it if you dont believe me - I did!


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## marti18

yeah i googled it and yes there are results with stern reports. ah well it will all fall back on the irish taxpayer again. i just happen to know a sole trader who had to close shop but still owes maybe 40k  maybe ill inform him about this topic and start again in a few years


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## Tomorrow

Yes you could say it to your friend.

The insolvency practitioner who conducted the course I attended spoke about a couple of cases where the children of wealthy individuals were availing of this route... to enable them get out of large debt and negative equity and free themselves up to inherit their parents wealth without fear of it being paid to creditors.

Incredible!!


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## computerman

Morality Vs Immorality.

It is immoral to deliberately run up debts and then disappear to avail of the bankruptcy facilities in the UK.

It is not immoral to avail of system if the debts are not deliberately run up.


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## callybags

How can you not deliberately run up a debt?


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## Bronte

callybags said:


> How can you not deliberately run up a debt?


 
It's happened to a lot of companies, they have debts and are waiting for creditors to pay them, when they don't they can't pay their own debts and they in turn go bust.  It's why we have 'ltd' 

Another example is a person with a job who gets a mortgage, if their job goes they can't pay the mortgage and they are in negative equity.  So it's not deliberate.  

Deliberate is when you are say a company and you know you will not be able to pay and continue to trade or borrow.  It's actually illegal.  

Deliberate in relation to an ordinary person would be once you know you can't repay the mortgage you then max out your credit card, apply for new ones, go over your overdraft limit knowing they are going to take the house so you might as well go the full hog.


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## Time

I has no problem with people getting one over on the banks after what they have done to the people of Ireland. 

The current government have no plans to give regular people a break. They are only looking out for their friends i.e. the banks. If they cared the bankruptcy system would have been overhauled years ago. 

Fair play to anyone who goes to the UK to become bankrupt. Morals have no place in the legal system. What goes around comes around.


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## callybags

"Getting one over on the banks" as you put it is getting one over on me and every other taxpayer in the country.

Thanks for that.


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## marti18

Time said:


> I has no problem with people getting one over on the banks after what they have done to the people of Ireland.
> 
> The current government have no plans to give regular people a break. They are only looking out for their friends i.e. the banks. If they cared the bankruptcy system would have been overhauled years ago.
> 
> Fair play to anyone who goes to the UK to become bankrupt. Morals have no place in the legal system. What goes around comes around.


 
time, i agree with you 100% but it will all fall back on us the taxpayer sooner than later. the banks and this so called government are an absolute disgrace and they need to be punished rather than the normal joesoap paying through the neck and getting screwed whil eeveryone else gets a free bail out

THIS GOVERNMENT JUST AINT FAIR TO ITS TAXPAYERS!!!!


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## davebrien

The Rep of Ireland was RIP Ireland for a good many years now and this thread confirms it.  It died about the time we became an economy and not a Nation.  We were morally bankrupt a long time back and now have become financially bankrupt to complete the circle.


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## cash king

Just a moment!

the UK legislation DOES requre that you hand over most/all assets.  You get to keep the shirt on your back and start over.

The debts dont just "disappear"

If you are going to hide your assets and THEN go bankrupt in the UK you may or may not get away with it, it may or may not be immoral, but it ISNT legal in the UK  - OR in Rep of I


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## Bronte

cash king said:


> the UK legislation DOES requre that you hand over most/all assets.


 
Or you transfer them to your spouse before you go .....  the one's without debt attached only of course...


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## mchugh2008

Hi there, I am being forced to go the route of bankruptcy and its an awful feeling. What has happened to me has probably happened to alot. I borrowed money in the past and invested it through well known lrish developers and irish investment companies abroad. Some of the investment have totally collapsed and some of the investment company administrators have disappeared. In summary my investments have also disappeared. I have lost my job and now I cant pay back my debts in Ireland. I've been taking plenty of professional advice and it is recommended that I go the UK route although there maybe alternatives Im told. I'm still deciding on what is best for me as the Bankruptcy route isn't as simple as one thinks and there are many many disadvantages.Definitely worth talking with someone in the know first.


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## mchugh2008

Hi, I spoke to a guy who has just gone through a court protected arrangement with his creditors. Sounds definitely a better option as there are less disadvantages from what I understand. As I get more info, I'll try to post.


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## Kev

You could also ask your creditors to write off some of your debts as you will be unable to service them. As said before they cannot get blood from a stone.


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## Time

They won't do that. They would rather keep adding interest and eek out what they can via instalment orders and threats of imprisonment.


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## mchugh2008

Well what I am seeing is that the institutions are writing down debts and whats more is they are getting these individuals to sign confidentiality agreements so that the word doesnt get out but like anything its getting out. Things are going to get a whole lot worse this year and I'd say from the advice I'm getting is the banks, etc will be only delighted to do more and more deals. The mess is only starting, wait till the retail property market goes into free fall...ie Burger King, etc. Its coming.


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## callaghanj

An IVA is an alternative to BKY in GB and NI


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## mchugh2008

Hi, yes I looked at the IVA too but my advisor steered me away as there are many disadvantages to it. On the other hand, Bankruptcy is a definite last resort for anyone but if it has to be, then UK all the way. But there are many many alternatives that one can try first of all and now is probably the time from reading the papers, forums, etc to look at all options. The banks best be ready for an influx of creditors.......an increase of 1% on mortgages...what are they thinking. So many people are struggling to pay at the current rate, so why increase...maybe the banks want to become landlords...who knows??


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## Pope John 11

rob1 said:


> Since when.  Where has honour gone?  When did we loose the ability to stand for our morals and try to do the right thing for us and society.



I think this disease from the government by not doing 'the right thing for us and society' for the last 13 years or so and the same disease which past onto bankers whom society put some trust in has resulted in the same disease being past onto the people of this country today.

Until bankers and politicians and developers go to jail for their actions, the governments past of lavish spending of tax payers money has been put to a stop then it is very difficult for people of this country 'to stand for our morals'.

After all values are the rules by which we make decisions about right and wrong, should and shouldn't, good and bad, has our values been diluted?. So in summary we have had a past government who has taken a whole series of unethical decisions, got cosy with the developers and bankers to an extent that it is difficult to see how people could have any morals


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## Pope John 11

For instance Micheal Martin on social welfare recipients:

"Attacking fraud is an important aspect and also an efficient rationalisation of the situation whereby people can make a career out of exploiting social welfare."

But should it read:

"Attacking fraud is an important aspect and also an efficient rationalisation of the situation whereby government ministers can make a career out of exploiting their pensions and once off payments."


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## cormirl

callybags said:


> "Getting one over on the banks" as you put it is getting one over on me and every other taxpayer in the country.
> 
> Thanks for that.


 
The truth is the system in Ireland has already got one over on you plus it will contnue to get one over on you and there is nothing you do about it. People will do what makes financial sense at the end of the day,morals don't come into it. Look at what the banks and gov are doing to us....is that moral?


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## Steve Thatcher

marti18 said:


> i find this hard to believe and honestly think its impossible. why because just say you had a business here in ROI that went bust. going on this topic the person can simply live up north for 12months and work there. after the 12 months you can come back to ROI debt free!!! find it really hard to believe that its possible
> 
> also whats happens if you were a sole trader and your business went wallop ST is responsible for all debt!!!!!


 
It reallt is possible I have numerous posts on here as to how to do it.

Steve


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## Steve Thatcher

Tomorrow said:


> Yes you could say it to your friend.
> 
> The insolvency practitioner who conducted the course I attended spoke about a couple of cases where the children of wealthy individuals were availing of this route... to enable them get out of large debt and negative equity and free themselves up to inherit their parents wealth without fear of it being paid to creditors.
> 
> Incredible!!


 
Please believe me this is not just a remedy for the rich. I am an expert in this field. We provide this process for anybody rich or poor.

Also there is no noral element to this at all. If banks were reckless with their lending they can have no sympathy when those who suffer and cannot pay it back, take out routes offered to them by EU law.

Steve


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## cormirl

Tomorrow said:


> Hi all
> 
> I was at a course last week in Belfast.
> 
> The course focused on the different methods of insolvency in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
> 
> During the course of the day, the presenter talked about 'Bankruptcy tourism'.
> 
> Where people from Ireland are moving to UK or elsewhere, working for a few months, decaring themselves bankrupt and therefore escaping Irish debts.
> 
> If the UK is the country of choice, you are bankrupt for 12 months and are then debt free.
> 
> I find this unbelievable and of course its immoral but apparently it is happening. The presenter (an insolvency practitioner) has personal experience of this practice.
> 
> And, of course when we look at what David Drum is trying to do, it all makes sense.
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone has had personal experience of this?



Whats immoral about getting a new start financially? Surely its immoral to tie people to a debt that was inflated through gov policies and the banking pyramid scheme in real estate?


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