# Bank Of America/MBNA Leaving Ireland & UK



## Sunny (15 Aug 2011)

Bank of America have just announced they are leaving their UK and Ireland credit card business. I have not seen details of what this means and whether they are selling the business or winding it down.

Aug. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the biggest U.S. bank by assets, said it will exit the international credit- card business by selling its approximately $8.6 billion card business in Canada to TD Bank Group and leaving the U.K. and Irish card markets.
“We have been transforming the company to deliver the franchise to our core customer groups, and building a fortress balance sheet behind that,” Chief Executive Officer Brian T.
Moynihan said today in a statement. “While the credit card remains a fundamental core product for our U.S. customers, an international consumer card business under another brand is not consistent with that strategy.”
Moynihan is focusing on retail-banking customers, commercial borrowers and investment banking, and getting rid of unrelated assets to raise capital. The Charlotte, North Carolina-based company, which took a $45 billion government bailout during the financial crisis, has struck deals to sell an insurance unit and mortgage-servicing rights. Bank of America sold its $200 million portfolio of small business card loans to Barclays Plc in April.
The TD Bank transaction is expected to close in the fourth quarter and boost Tier 1 common and tangible common equity ratios, the company said


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## DublinTexas (15 Aug 2011)

The full article on bloomberg says:



> Bank of America is weighing its options regarding the U.K. and Ireland businesses it is exiting, said Jerry Dubrowski, a company spokesman, declining to comment on what those options are.


 
Also it's interesting how much people have credit cards debs with MBNA in UK/Ireland:



> Bank of America’s portfolios in the U.K. and Ireland have a combined $19 billion in credit-card loans and more than 4,000 employees, the company said in the statement.


 
Now giving how MBNA are pushing their interest free option right now (letters, phone calls, online, e-mail) this is interesting and contradicting.

Well let's see what happens.


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## Willy Fogg (15 Aug 2011)

> Now giving how MBNA are pushing their interest free option right now  (letters, phone calls, online, e-mail) this is interesting and  contradicting.



Not really - just like the Canadian one, it'll be sold as a going concern and will take quite some time to go through - it just means business as usual in the mean time.


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## Lightning (15 Aug 2011)

Which bank in their right mind would buy an Irish credit card company right now? Surely closure is more likely.


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## Sunny (15 Aug 2011)

Yeah finding a buyer will be difficult. Especially one willing to keep 1000 jobs in Leitrim. Big blow for Ireland.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2011)

Sunny said:


> Yeah finding a buyer will be difficult. Especially one willing to keep 1000 jobs in Leitrim. Big blow for Ireland.



A big jobs blow but it's great that they are no longer going to be running a credit card business. They had dreadful policies towards their customers and so, on balance, this is good news for Irish and British consumers as a whole. 

Someone else will offer credit cards to their customers. So the 1000 jobs will be filled by other people in other companies.

Brendan


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## DublinTexas (16 Aug 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> A big jobs blow but it's great that they are no longer going to be running a credit card business. They had dreadful policies towards their customers and so, on balance, this is good news for Irish and British consumers as a whole.
> 
> Someone else will offer credit cards to their customers. So the 1000 jobs will be filled by other people in other companies.
> 
> Brendan




I’m sorry but I disagree. In all the years that I have been with MBNA (in both the US and Ireland) MBNA always has been an excellent provider for me with excellent balance transfer offers, great customer service and in emergency situations (where the card was stolen) they reacted fast and refunded me the money (sure some paperwork was involved).

Sure once or twice I found had problems with payments taking too long but since using mybills.ie this is no longer the case.

I don’t understand why people are always complaining about dreadful policies towards their customers.

If someone racks up a credit card debt without the ability to pay it back and then complains that s/he is aggressively pursued than I feel not even remotely sorry about that. That behaviour is costing me the genuine customer more money because they will adjust their fees/interest to cover some losses. 

And giving the current market conditions in Ireland I’m not as sure as you are that they will find a buyer that will continue to run the business, it will possible rather go down the same way as gemoney with them stopping new lending and having a small operation to service the existing debt.

Giving the risks of the Irish lending market which international player do you think has enough money to spend on the MBMA job? Barclays won’t (they left years ago), Santander has a small operation but I don’t think they want to get MBNA’s problems and I don’t know if an Irish business is really happy to take it on board either.

So we have to see when MBNA is announcing more details, which they hopefully do soon.

As to the jobs, I’m sorry for those people.


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## Guest105 (16 Aug 2011)

They were dreadful to their customers, how many people did they drive to the brink of despair.. I often thought of the staff working in a place like that, they must have really hated their jobs when they had to hound customers in difficulty up to 5 or 6 times a day. There is a dreadful thread somewhere about them. I do hope the government will do all it can to find the staff alternative jobs.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2011)

I never had any problems with MBNA. I am so sure we should be such a rush to celebrate the exit of yet another credit provider from this Country whatever their faults. I had experience of rubbish customer service from Dell but that doesn't mean I was happy to see them close their plant in Limerick.

It will be extremely difficult for them to find a buyer for the business in Ireland. And the Irish banks will not be on the look out for more credit card customers (apart from the very best ones).


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Aug 2011)

OK, maybe I didn't explain properly. I am sure they were fine when you paid on time which many people did.

But if you got into arrears, they rang up to 6 times a day.  Repeat - 6 times a day. I have met the victims and it was terrible. 



> If someone racks up a credit card debt without the ability to pay it  back and then complains that s/he is aggressively pursued than I feel  not even remotely sorry about that.



Well I do actually. That is why we have a code on mortgage arrears and a section in the consumer code on personal debt. Some people lost their jobs or their businesses since they took on the credit card debt. Some people had their credit limits raised without their appying for it. 

People in arrears really suffered at the hands of MBNA and I am glad to see the back of them.


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## z107 (16 Aug 2011)

Here's some useful advice:
Get whatever company is hassling you by ringing you to remove your phone number from their database. They won't want to do this, but the following tactics should work:

Ask them politely to remove your phone number.
Then if they phone back either put it in writing or tell them they have the wrong number, and please could they update their database.

I too use MBNA and have no problems with them.


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## OkeyDokey (16 Aug 2011)

Sunny said:


> Yeah finding a buyer will be difficult. Especially one willing to keep 1000 jobs in Leitrim.



The pay levels in Leitrim are a lot lower than Dublin.


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## newirishman (16 Aug 2011)

Sunny said:


> Yeah finding a buyer will be difficult. Especially one willing to keep 1000 jobs in Leitrim. Big blow for Ireland.



Would be interested to see what you base this assumption on. As far as I can tell from the press releases, they are selling the business because it doesn't fit their strategic portfolio and not because they are not making any money. 
Believe or not, but there are still companies out there who make investments and try to earn money. 
In contradiction to the "general believe", Ireland is still a country where you can earn money when you run a business. (Especially if you kept your business ouf of the property madness).
Having said that, I agree with the fact that job losses are likely as any buyer might look to streamline processes and make use of synergies where possible.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2011)

newirishman said:


> Would be interested what you base this assumption on. As far as I can tell from the press releases, they are selling the business because it doesn't fit their strategic portfolio and not because they are not making any money.
> Believe or not, but there are still companies out there who make investments and try to earn money.
> In contradiction to the "general believe", Ireland is still a country where you can earn money when you run a business. (Especially if you kept your business ouf of the property madness).


 
Not saying it doesn't make money but it is not hugely profitable. Did I read it makes something like €3.5m before tax. Asking a financial institution to take on a consumer finance company in a Country like Ireland at the moment is extremely difficult. Especially for that sort of risk/return. Bank Of America are doing it to clean up their balance sheet. Most financial institutions are looking to do the same by concentrating on core businesses and markets. Ireland is a core market for very few people. 

Do MBNA do customer service for the UK here as well? That might be their saving grace. Their best hope would be a buyer willing to take the UK and Irish businesses together. Otherwise, I think you will find a buyer for the UK business emerging and the Irish business been run down like Halifax.


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## Time (16 Aug 2011)

Ding Dong! The witch is dead!


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## Cornie (16 Aug 2011)

I have a substantial balance on my card but have always met my repayments so have never been hounded. However, if this was to be converted to a term loan I could be in trouble as I'm sure that my monthly repayment would be substantially higher. What input would I get re the interest repayment and the term of the loan I wonder. Or do they just write out and say you're new repayment is x amount every month for the next x months????

My hubby was offered 0% on balance transfers only last week and we were going to go with that and do the transfer to our joint account... I was then going to use the money to repay my balance and repay his at 0%.... We never got around to ringing them over the weekend. Wonder is there any point now???


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2011)

Cornie said:


> My hubby was offered 0% on balance transfers only last week and we were going to go with that and do the transfer to our joint account... I was then going to use the money to repay my balance and repay his at 0%.... We never got around to ringing them over the weekend. Wonder is there any point now???


 
Still worth doing if it is on offer.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Aug 2011)

Sunny said:


> Do MBNA do customer service for the UK here as well? That might be their saving grace. Their best hope would be a buyer willing to take the UK and Irish businesses together.



I presume that the Irish operation which employs 1,000 people service a worldwide clientele? 

Oddly enough, a lot of the 5 times a day calls come from India or people with Indian accents.


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## DublinTexas (16 Aug 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I presume that the Irish operation which employs 1,000 people service a worldwide clientele?
> 
> Oddly enough, a lot of the 5 times a day calls come from India or people with Indian accents.


 
Carrick-on-Shannon with about 1000 people (loads of them on 3 month contracts) are dealing with both UK/Ireland for telemarketing, customer assistance, credit assurance, customer loyalty, quality and support functions.

Chester in the UK has another 4000 people with contact centre departments, credit card printing teams, insurance, fraud and risk and a wide variety of support functions again supporting UK/Ireland.

So if they wind up it's 5000 jobs gone, if they find a buyer it might be less.

I for one am going to miss MBNA if they go out of business in Ireland, to me they were always great.

Let's hope that despite a large amount of defaults they still had profit in 2010 so that a buyer might emerge.


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## Lilly2099 (16 Aug 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> OK, maybe I didn't explain properly. I am sure they were fine when you paid on time which many people did.
> 
> But if you got into arrears, they rang up to 6 times a day. Repeat - 6 times a day. I have met the victims and it was terrible.
> 
> ...


 
Agree with Brendan 100% this company had no morales or ethical code when dealing with arrears, calling people on their mobile 10 times a day, when people got home from work they called their home phone up and until they closed at 9.00 at night, if they couldnt get in contact with on these numbers they hunted you down on a work number which you had never ever given them if you called them off a number other than the ones they had for you, they would use this number to call you back. There code of practice made peoples lives hell and even made some people sucidial read back through this site on old forums or google it. Yes people will loose their jobs, but Ireland now will be a far better place without MBNA and theit vicious tactics.


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## peteb (16 Aug 2011)

I have to say i am with the other posters who think they were fine. Find the cheque book extremely handy!! Never had a problem with them.   Again I pay my balance in full each month.  But if you run up a bill you cant afford, why should you be pursued? Its a business not a charity! You didn't have to run up a bill!  I make a conscious effort not to and choose to live within my meager means!


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## Lilly2099 (16 Aug 2011)

peteb said:


> I have to say i am with the other posters who think they were fine. Find the cheque book extremely handy!! Never had a problem with them. Again I pay my balance in full each month. But if you run up a bill you cant afford, why should you be pursued? Its a business not a charity! You didn't have to run up a bill! I make a conscious effort not to and choose to live within my meager means!


 
Yes and fair play to you for paying your bills, however some people recently as you can imagine have found themselves in unfortunate circumstances where they have lost jobs, taken pay cuts, become ill and unable to work and thats how they havent been able to pay their debts, the problem with MBNA is where most other instititions work with their debtors within reason MBNA do not and have vicious debt collecting tactics.


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## DublinTexas (16 Aug 2011)

Lilly2099 said:


> Yes and fair play to you for paying your bills, however some people recently as you can imagine have found themselves in unfortunate circumstances where they have lost jobs, taken pay cuts, become ill and unable to work and thats how they havent been able to pay their debts, the problem with MBNA is where most other instititions work with their debtors within reason MBNA do not and have vicious debt collecting tactics.


 
Isn't that what Payment Protection Cover is for?

And again, what happend to personal responsibilty? Nobody forced anybody to charge that holiday or that hand bag to ones credit card.

If one uses the credit card to charge food because it's the means of last resort fine, but a credit card is a short term instrument (even if MBNA only asks to have 1% of the card balance to be paid monthly). It's not a long term loan facility to rack up charges that one does not need.

When I first came to this country my bank only gave me 100 £ credit card limit despite me having way more on my current account every day. They argued that I needed to proof that I'm able to pay back what I charge and as responsible lender they need to see how I do. Sure over the years I now have 350 times that amount because the bank knows my spending pattern and knows what I can pay back.

MBNA was able to transfer my US account with it's history over and gave me a credit limit that they feelt i could manage and that's that.

And if I carry a balance and get unemployed I have a payment protection, yes it costs but it's the responsibe thing to have if you carry a balance and if I get sick I have a policy for that too because I rather pay insurance premium now than being in the position to have to fight a bank when I'm down. If you can affort to charge that unneeded hand bag, you for sure can affort a small premium.

As a person borrowing money I have the responsiblity to ensure I can pay back what I take out, be it either with insurance or savings. This principle of lending to facilitate a life style that is in excess of what one can affort is really not the right way.

Now is MBNA very agressive in getting money back, sure. Are they sometimes overstepping, maybe but MBNA did not force anybody to use the card in a shop to buy that one item they did knowing they could not really affort.

And if MBNA has broken laws during the collection I'm sure our fine regulator will step in as they have with the overcharging recently.

But I think MBNA or bank slapping is very common these days and personal responsiblity has gone out of the window. No I'm not only blaming people, banks were enganged in reckless lending too but at the end nobody held a gun to ones head to make that charge.

And who says that if MBNA for example sells the portfolio to some other company that collection efforts are not going to be increased? Just because MBNA is going away the phone calls might not stop, in effect they might actualy increase. I know some collection businesses that are way more effective than MBNA and if those buy the portfolio it's going to be even harder. Do you really think that the debt is not longe pursued just because they are closing shop? Unlikley. 

But by the looks of it, they will continue business for a while longer in Ireland and try to find someone that takes it off their hands. Hopefully they find a business that continues the accounts and does not stop like Halifax.


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## Gekko (17 Aug 2011)

I found myself in difficulty with MBNA a couple of years ago and based on my experiences I have also assisted others who found themselves in similar difficulty.

I was lied to and misled by every MBNA staff member that I've ever dealt with.  I was harassed and on a couple of occasions I was shouted at.  People I've helped have been reduced to tears by MBNA staff.

Based on my experiences and the experiences of others, I will be delighted to the see the back of the company and I sincerely hope that nothing is done to help the staff.  If they lose their jobs, it's just karma.  I never thought that I would ever say this about a group of people but I actually laughed out loud when I heard this news.  John Lennon was right...karma's gonna get you.


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## T McGibney (17 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> I sincerely hope that nothing is done to help the staff.  If they lose their jobs, it's just karma.  I never thought that I would ever say this about a group of people but I actually laughed out loud when I heard this news.  John Lennon was right...karma's gonna get you.



The thing about karma is that it lands on everyone's doorstep sometime, so we all need to be careful 

Former MBNA staff have told me that the corporate culture within the company was poisonous, both in terms of the way they treated their customers and also how they treated their staff. 

Unfortunately, in an area like Leitrim, a lot of people have very limited employment options at the best of times, so many MBNA employees would have worked there, not because they liked the company or its culture, but because they couldn't find work elsewhere. 

Its unfair and a bit crass to blame these employees for their employer's shortcomings.


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## Gekko (17 Aug 2011)

T McGibney said:


> The thing about karma is that it lands on everyone's doorstep sometime, so we all need to be careful
> 
> Former MBNA staff have told me that the corporate culture within the company was poisonous, both in terms of the way they treated their customers and also how they treated their staff.
> 
> ...


 
Karma shouldn't be an issue for people who've behaved honorably in their dealings with others.  I've no doubt that the company insist that their staff (say) make as many calls as possible to people during the day.  My issue is with the tone and manner of ALL of the staff in the instances that I'm aware of.  I very much doubt that the company tell their staff to be rude, abusive and condescending or tell their staff to lie to customers.

Perhaps I'm being callous and emotional about this but my reaction is "let them eat cake".  This isn't as simple as irrationally branding a group of people a disgrace just for doing their job (e.g. parking wardens).  ALL of the MBNA staff that I've come across have been a disgrace.  Let's see them now face the third degree over how they spend their €188 a week...


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## fairychild (18 Aug 2011)

*Credit card to clear*

Hi 

I have a credit card with MBNA and i am trying pay off a couple of personal loans and my car before i tackle paying off the card.. It is 8k on the card.  At the momenti am unemployed like most of ireland so its difficult.  I will tackle it somehow next year though as i hope to have a job in next couple of months.  Does anyone know if MBNA are totally leaving ireland and if so would you still owe them the money?  Someone said to me yestereday i would not be liable to pay them i doubt that is the case surely you are still obligated to pay your bill to them which is fair enough.


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## Sunny (18 Aug 2011)

fairychild said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a credit card with MBNA and i am trying pay off a couple of personal loans and my car before i tackle paying off the card.. It is 8k on the card. At the momenti am unemployed like most of ireland so its difficult. I will tackle it somehow next year though as i hope to have a job in next couple of months. Does anyone know if MBNA are totally leaving ireland and if so would you still owe them the money? Someone said to me yestereday i would not be liable to pay them i doubt that is the case surely you are still obligated to pay your bill to them which is fair enough.


 
No, you will still be liable.


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## fairychild (18 Aug 2011)

Thanks Sunny i thought that would be the case, i am under pressure at the moment they are saying they want to sell my debt on to some other company i know my credit rating is prob affected for 6 years on the irish credit beauru but can they destroy your credit rating forever ?


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## Time (18 Aug 2011)

Nope.


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## DublinTexas (18 Aug 2011)

Time said:


> Nope.


 
I assume you mean with the ICB because of their current reporting cycles based on payment data only.

But are you sure that Experian for example will not keep a negative remark (for example a judgement) longer on file, they store more than just payment data, they also store registered judgment or bankruptcy information.


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## Luckycharm (18 Aug 2011)

I switched from Ulster bank Credit card to MBNA and found them great no probs and a hell of alot better to deal with then Ulster bank. Then again I have never gone into arrears.


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## potnoodler (18 Aug 2011)

Luckycharm said:


> I switched from Ulster bank Credit card to MBNA and found them great no probs and a hell of alot better to deal with then Ulster bank. Then again I have never gone into arrears.


 

Banks are always grand and polite to deal with while they're making money off you, its how they treat their long term customers when they fall on hard times through no fault of their own, and ironically more to blame with banks themselves.
Its a bit like measuring how civilised a society is by how it treats its poor, its sick and its prisoners. No personal bad experience with MBNA but always had a very wary view of all moneylenders.


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## jhegarty (18 Aug 2011)

fairychild said:


> Thanks Sunny i thought that would be the case, i am under pressure at the moment they are saying they want to sell my debt on to some other company i know my credit rating is prob affected for 6 years on the irish credit beauru but can they destroy your credit rating forever ?



Did you miss your minimum payments ?


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## Bronte (26 Aug 2011)

Very happy to hear they are gone. The stories I've heard on AAM and from Irish people in their dealings with MBNA when in arrears were absolutely cruel. Harressing people who are depressed, who have lost their jobs is unconscionable. 

They should not have left people build up large credit card bills in the first place and rules should be put in place by the regulator that people have to repay enough to reduce the balance and if a large balance if built up it has to be slowly paid off say over 5 years who no extra charges or interest. The way the credit card companies were able to increase the amount you spent without your consent and also the practice of sending people cheques to spend with are I assume now curtailed.

There was an intersting book on how they operate called 'Maxed Out'


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## Mrs Vimes (26 Aug 2011)

Bronte said:


> The way the credit card companies were able to *increase the amount you spent* without your consent and also the practice of sending people cheques to spend with are I assume now curtailed.



I'm no fan of MBNA but suggesting they were able to increase anything other than the amount available to spend is denying any personal responsibility for running up the bill.


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## Willy Fogg (28 Aug 2011)

> Very happy to hear they are gone



They're not gone yet.


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## sfag (1 Sep 2011)

I've good experience with MBNA - my sisters experience is not do good.

Their interest free offers are second to none - though I got caught out with their 'pay off the lowest interest first' principle first time I made avail of it. 
Used it happilly since.

My sister however fell foul of MBNA UK and once she fell behind with repayments the interest rate got racked up to 35%.


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