# Fingerprint Clock In @ Work - Legal?



## kerrymaid

Hello everybody.
I'm wondering would anybody be able to clarify if the above is legal or not.

The company I work for has installed a Fingerprint Clock In device - does anybody know if this is legal, as in, should staff have been asked firstly as to whether or not they were happy to provide a fingerprint for this? We have been told that the machine will replace our manually written timesheets, hence the fingerprint requirement. 

Does anybody have any knowledge of the legal status of this?
Any replies/advice would be very much appreciated.


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## rbarry

Hey!

Depends on the system, but if it stores the actual finger print I believe that this is illegal. However, nearly all systems that I have come across dont take the full print, just specific points on a number of your fingers. This allows them to circumvent any legal issues


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## Leo

Employers already store personal data on each of their employees, so I see no legal issue with them storing finger print information, so long as it's only used for the stated purpose, but I'm far from expert on such matters. 

Companies are legally obliged to keep acurate records of employee's time now under the Working Time Directive (which is intended to protect employees). Fingerprint scanners are pretty cheap now, so such a system would be cheaper to implement than a card clock-in system and would allow them meet all their requirements under the directive.

On the down side, it could be interpreted that they don't trust staff to clock-in/out by other means. I know people working in companies that use other means of timekeeping (punch cards, RF swipe cards, desktop PC apps, etc.), and most are open to abuse.
Leo


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## kerrymaid

*Fingerprint Clock In*

Thank you rbarry & Leo for your replies, i'm new to this reply thing so i'm not sure if i'm doing it correctly - apologies if not.

My problem with this essentially is, is that we were simply told this was the "new way" of clocking in now. Management did not specify what they were/how they were going to store this print, or for how long. Yes, i appreciate that companies have an employee's details on file but the only time i've ever been asked for my fingerprint is @ shannon airport going on hols to USA. And no, management at my company do not trust the staff! 

Maybe i thought (foolishly) they had to ask our permission?!


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## JoeRoberts

For an employee it's better than having to carry a swipe card or fob all the time.

It would have been better if they had explained it beforehand of course but sometimes these things are driven by someone in accounts that is not au fait with IR issues.

Many people publish a lot of personal info on facebook etc so I hope the same people don't kick up about this based on "personal info" issues.

Automatic swipe systems bring big efficiencies to companies and this benefits employment in the long term.


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## Pope John 11

I think they should ask you permission first. There was a case awhile back where a 3 employees abused the clock in clock out system for years, and the 3 of them were dismissed as the management installed new CCTV cameras to record their times in and out of work. The management knew that the employees were abusing the system for years. ie when a job was complete it was time to go home. They won the case and between them they got €60,000 approx, the reasons were there was no contract and the company never asked their permission to monitor their clocking in-out via CCTV.

Here is a link to some of it.

http://newsweaver.co.uk/ibec/e_arti...%5B%5BIMN.USER_ID%5D%5D%5B%5BIMN.ACTION%5D%5D

You can check up the case No. UD257-259/2007 here

[broken link removed]


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## kerrymaid

*Finger Print Clock In @ Work - Legal?*

Thank you Joe Roberts & John Paull 11 for your replies. yes, it should have been explained to us properly beforehand but that didnt happen & people are afraid to ask any questions in case they are looked upon as "trouble makers". Most people i work with say "keep the head down"! I guess people are afraid of losing their jobs so they just swallow it.


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## Complainer

Might be worth making a call to the Data Protection Commissioner for advice www.dataprivacy.ie


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## CatherineB

[broken link removed]

Does it look anything like that, do you know? If so, it reads the points between your fingers- it will not work if your hand is not touching all of the points, and is not related to fingerprints. These are extremely common in large retail companies and I have seen them in plenty of pubs and restaraunts- I don't know about offices! They're seen as more accurate than fingerprint readers, and are probably cheaper, so there's a good chance it's actually one of these 'hand geography readers'.


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## kerrymaid

No, it does not look anything like that! The machine we have has numbers, where you press your employee number in & then you are instructed to "place your finger" on a specific area, the machine then reads, employee x logged in @ 10.00am.


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## truthseeker

kerrymaid said:


> No, it does not look anything like that! The machine we have has numbers, where you press your employee number in & then you are instructed to "place your finger" on a specific area, the machine then reads, employee x logged in @ 10.00am.


 
Yeah we have them now as well. Same as you Kerrymaid, no one asked, just told we were to use them. They have also implemented new rules as to docking pay as a result of them - removing any flexibility that used to be there.

We were told that our actual fingerprint is not stored, only points on the finger that a fingerprint could not be replicated from. We checked it out through our union, the machine itself is legal, the pay docking is another issue as there are staff on hourly rates and salaried staff using the machine and docking of pay for salaried staff would appear to be a change to contracts.


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## kerrymaid

Truthseeker, @ least you were told that your actual fingerprint is not stored. We have been told ZERO! However, i am aware of at least one individual who refuses to use this machine stating that it is an invasion of "her rights". Nobody from management has challenged this to date, as far as i am aware. The longer it goes on the more uncomfortable i am with this. As for our union, they are about as much use as a chocolate firegard!


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## csirl

People need to be a bit less paranoid about this sort of stuff. Does it really matter if someone has your fingerprint? Why would you care? In truth, an ID card with a photo has a lot more biometric information on it than a simple fingerprint. Also from a security point of view, if fingerprints were stored and someone stole or tapped into the files, I doubt they'd be able to decipher the identity of the employees from the information - if they steel or tap into ID card files, they have your photo, so you are easily identified.


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## truthseeker

csirl said:


> People need to be a bit less paranoid about this sort of stuff.


 
Perhaps people would be less paranoid about it if it was explained to them.


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## losttheplot

I leave my fingerprints on pretty much everything I touch in work. No one seems to be bothered stealing them.

If they were to insert little microchips under your skin or use telepaths and lie detectors then I'd worry and wrap my head in tinfoil.  

Our clock-in machine sucks life force out of people when they clock in and only gives about 50% of it back when you clock out (why I'm always tired in work)- and this is through a card. If they get you're little finger they'll suck even more of it out.


There may have been issues with employees clocking each other in an out. Personally it wouldn't bother me, saves the hassle of having to carry a clock card around. But I do agree, it they just communicated there is no issue it would be better. On the other hand, even if they do, there'll be people thinking they're hiding something and it's some sinister ploy.


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