# Upgrading insulation specification in 2005 bungalow



## Sandals (28 Jan 2013)

Previously done attic, attic hatch, sealed all draughts we can find, fitted stove.

Looking into the following this year and any advice welcome:

1) Previously made (out of drainage pipe) covers for our downlighters so insualtion could go nearer the downlighter. We NEVER use any of the downlighters so think best step is to cover them completely over with insulation in the attic. So choices: seal over the pipes somehow, buy clay pots or buy purpose built hoods.

2) Have few exterior walls in the house where no plugs/switches etc. Block built with plaster. Would putting insulated plasterboard with mushroom fittings and re-plastering be a good idea and worth the hassle.

3) Have sunroom (that we closed off from the house by glazed/timber unit) with timber clad high pitched ceiling with fleece rolls inside which assuming have sagged. Considering taking down existing ceiling but would fitting a new false ceiling be just as effective and cleaner. Large double glazed windows - would it be worth putting in A rated or triple glazed units (seen a company thats uses the existing frames).


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## lowCO2design (30 Jan 2013)

1) purpose built hoods. insulation directly over may lead to fire! it all about the air-tightness! 
2) your house is block/cavity/block? if so pump the remaining cavity
3) ask that company about air-tightness and overall U-value achieved by the frames and new glass? please post what promises they make, thanks!
install an insulated and air-tight door between the sun-room & house.
Ceiling
fir-out ceiling joists and install more insulation with a fully tape and sealed Vapour barrier on the warm side (also acting as a an air-tightness layer)


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## Sandals (31 Jan 2013)

Thanks lowCO2design, 

1) we never use the downlighters as they light up the kitchen like a football pitch and have a main ceiling light in hall so hall downlighters never used either. Iv stuck bits of cellotape to the five switches that power these downlighters so they cant be turned on. As the downlighters wont be on, there is no risk of fire as no overheating. Iv sealed the tops of the pipes with tape (effect on first one was amazing when I put my hand under it in the kitchen) and am in the process of adding more rolls of insulation around the pipes. 

2) We have decided not to pump the cavity as we have enough heat (not chilly except the sunroom which was why we shut it off till we more time to deal with it), just want make house more efficient ourselves. 

3)Have emailed the company with sizes and waiting for a price, Ill update about the technical information.

4) Well we installed a double glass wooden framed doors with side panels and overhead glass panel. Its not airtight (breeze under two doors would freeze your toes if you stood in kitchen side too long)  but it has done a fabulous job all the same.

5)Havent done anything about the sunroom yet but will get one windowboard removed to check if insulation in wall and also plan on cutting in timber ceiling to see state of rolls of insulation.

Anyone done similar improvements or any suggestions/thoughts appreciated.


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## seantheman (31 Jan 2013)

lowCO2design said:


> 1)
> 2) your house is block/cavity/block? if so pump the remaining cavity
> )


 
Is this method proven beyond doubt to work? I have a 2000 built house that has 60mm polystyrene T&G sheets with toggle on walltie holding to inner wall. My issues with pumping remainder of cavity were
1. Not having been in the country when house was being built, what if some of the toggles weren't pushed back properly and the sheet is lying kina diagonally between the outer and inner leaf then the newly pumped bead would never reach this area.
2. Is it a fact that most of the machinery for pumping cavities are designed for pumping 100mm or 150mm and dont cope well with the 40mm that would be left to pump in many houses?
3. Is it not the case that the original idea of a cavity wall was to stop the transfer of damp etc. from outer wall to inner wall and by completely filling the cavity that one is actually facilitating this process?
4. Which of the various materials work best in this instance? bead, paper,
   fabric?


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## Sandals (31 Jan 2013)

seantheman said:


> 3. Is it not the case that the original idea of a cavity wall was to stop the transfer of damp etc. from outer wall to inner wall and by completely filling the cavity that one is actually facilitating this process?



Old school thought in this house also.

Did add 12 rolls insulation this eve and bit disappointed as had hoped the draught in the downlighters would be gone but still little bit left but much better than it was. Might be worth spending the €150 on the hoods if a better seal could be had....


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2013)

seantheman said:


> Is this method proven beyond doubt to work?


 where do you live, block/cavity/block full fill pump has iab certs for much of Ireland bar the extremes of the west coast 





> I have a 2000 built house that has 60mm polystyrene T&G sheets with toggle on walltie holding to inner wall. My issues with pumping remainder of cavity were
> 1. Not having been in the country when house was being built, what if some of the toggles weren't pushed back properly and the sheet is lying kina diagonally between the outer and inner leaf then the newly pumped bead would never reach this area.


 yes thermal looping is an issue, but only improved by pumping





> 2. Is it a fact that most of the machinery for pumping cavities are designed for pumping 100mm or 150mm and dont cope well with the 40mm that would be left to pump in many houses?


 many iab cert state 50mm is the min, i've specified it on 40mm cavity and seen follow up thermal analysis positive results 





> 3. Is it not the case that the original idea of a cavity wall was to stop the transfer of damp etc. from outer wall to inner wall and by completely filling the cavity that one is actually facilitating this process?


yes, but the beads dont allow water to pass across the cavity.





> 4. Which of the various materials work best in this instance? bead, paper,
> fabric?


?in the cavity? polystyrene beads only. paper, fabric?/ are you having a laugh?


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2013)

Sandals said:


> Thanks lowCO2design,
> 
> 1) we never use the downlighters as they light up the kitchen like a football pitch and have a main ceiling light in hall so hall downlighters never used either. Iv stuck bits of cellotape to the five switches that power these downlighters so they cant be turned on. As the downlighters wont be on, there is no risk of fire as no overheating. Iv sealed the tops of the pipes with tape (effect on first one was amazing when I put my hand under it in the kitchen) and am in the process of adding more rolls of insulation around the pipes.
> 
> ...




 i dont except that, what if some other person turns on the lights? if you are taking that approach remove the down-lights!
so you wont pump the cavity but were considering insulated slabs?
wont hold my breath
? im confused, your cold but happy? and willing to waste money on changing the glass but not on dealing with air-tightness?
best of luck with whatever you decide to do


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2013)

Sandals said:


> Old school thought in this house also.
> 
> Did add 12 rolls insulation this eve and bit disappointed as had hoped the draught in the downlighters would be gone but still little bit left but much better than it was. Might be worth spending the €150 on the hoods if a better seal could be had....


prehaps if you dealt the AIR movement instead of adding insulation you'd get better results?


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## Sandals (1 Feb 2013)

lowCO2design said:


> i dont except that, what if some other person turns on the lights? if you are taking that approach remove the down-lights!
> so you wont pump the cavity but were considering insulated slabs?



Had talked to our original electrician about disconnecting the lights but leaving the cosmetic bit. He said it was a foolish idea and to just buy the fire hoods. 

Have had householders recommend the insulated slabs after they used them on external walls. Is there a problem with them? Iv only two exterior walls that have no switches, plugs so thought it would be a quick improvement. 

Ill have a read on Air Movement in a house, thanks.


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## Sandals (1 Feb 2013)

Some points Iv read off the internet to note:

one of the problems with this type of dry lining including using Polyurethand backed plasterboard is that you are likely to get condensation on the block wall behind the insulated Plasterboard. This could happen even if you were dry linning a cavity wall.

In addition make sure you remove the existing finish on the walls back to the blocks. Not doing this will leave gypsum products within the wall that could suffer from any interstitial condensation and allow mould to grow.

upgrade your windows not the external walls . Or air tightness. Or ventilation strategy. Or hire a good BER Assessor to go through all of the above.

Kingspan drylining causes condensation/fungus at the dewpoint between the insulation and the wall and causes offgasing. It is not breathable and you are sealing up the inside of your house with plastic.


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## seantheman (1 Feb 2013)

lowCO2design said:


> where do you live, block/cavity/block full fill pump has iab certs for much of Ireland bar the extremes of the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> in the cavity? polystyrene beads only. paper, fabric?/ are you having a laugh?


 
1. Yeah, live in the extreme NW where the west wind driven rain comes sideways at ye

2.No, I'm not having a laugh.You're obviously an expert in this field, the rest of us are asking questions to try and educate ourselves in case we choose the wrong option. I've seen on other sites that various products can be used for pumping cavities including Cellulose,Fibre,Foam and Bead.
Do i deduct from your previous reply that bead is the only material you would consider


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2013)

seantheman said:


> 1. Yeah, live in the extreme NW where the west wind driven rain comes sideways at ye


you need an on-site assessment, I wish you the best of luck


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2013)

Sandals said:


> good BER Assessor


it takes a week to do the course and become a BER assessor, I'd strongly recommend you seek advice from a professional arch / eng with knowledge of dew point calcs, air-tightness, thermal bridging, U-values etc
I've already stated my opinion, and at the very least i'd ask: please ask any potential installers whats wrong with this spec and post info here


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## Sandals (5 Feb 2013)

Windows (glass only that would be fitted into our frames) coming in at €1800, u value of 1.1 is all Iv got back. Wont be a route we're going down.


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## lowCO2design (6 Feb 2013)

its hard to consider this price when you haven't given the area of glass?


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## Sandals (10 Mar 2013)

Decided to go ahead and use insulated plasterboard on one exterior wall. Ordered the 82.5mm thick insulation (€50 each) and 10 mushroom pins for each board. 

Chap putting them up comes over the weekend and said he wouldnt use the pins as they too long and would be in the cavity which would be letting air in and also may lead to damp spots if damp/wet got in. Why would the hardware gave the wrong lenght?

Also the panels are 1 inch less than four foot stated which means we need to order another board as good four inches left at end and chap recommended cutting two boards and putting together so avoiding plaster cracking later. Disgusted.


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