# Yearly energy switch farce



## mugsymugsy (6 Nov 2018)

Hi

Just been through the years dance between energy companies. 
Checked bonkers.ie for lowest rates per unit for gas and electricity - factored in rebates etc. 
Ideally didn't want to move less hassle etc however they refused to offer me the new customer rates. So I give them a final chance and no deal so off I go.
I don't understand why they don't give the deals to people as the cost / hassle of me going through with them today and now spending time to clear up account etc
I do understand the logic of rolling the person off the yearly discount and if they don't get it contact they pay higher rates but this process of not giving me the new rates doesn't make sense (they did offer me cheaper than higher rates just not as good as new customers!)
Sorry for the rant but I guess I'll be back in a year checking rates again.


----------



## gnf_ireland (6 Nov 2018)

mugsymugsy said:


> Just been through the years dance between energy companies.





mugsymugsy said:


> Sorry for the rant but I guess I'll be back in a year checking rates again.



I understand what you are saying and go through the same charade each year as well. Thankfully it is a pretty straight forward switch, and I tend to do it on Black Friday each year so I remember when the time comes around 

Two years ago, I think it was Energia rang me to ask me why I was switching away from them. I told them the 1 year discount had expired (approximately 17%) and I knew the best they would offer me was around 7%. The call to them would take me longer that it would to switch, so it was easier, less hassle, less frustration and financially better off to switch rather than wait 10 minutes for a call centre agent to answer the phone, go through their usual waffle and then offer me 7%. I told them if they were in a position to offer me >15% indefinitely, I would not switch from them. Obviously they could not - so we left it that if they were the cheapest rates in 12 months time I would switch back again. I basically said their product is a wholesale commodity and would chase the cheapest price for that commodity annually, until it was not worth my while to do so.

The simple answer to your question is the whole sign-up process is automated, so very little cost to the utility company, with very few human steps involved. They have profiled their customer base and they know only x% will switch after 12 months, y% after 24 and z% after a price increase etc. They can only offer 7% discount each year across the base, so the ones who do not switch subsidize those that do.
So why not offer those who contact the higher discount - because more would do it in that case and their headline discount would reduce. They obviously feel only a certain number would switch and a reasonable portion are only chancing their arm.

From my personal view, I think once you have called the utility company you are already on the back foot. Why waste 20 minutes on the call to them when you could have switched in that time. If you were serious about switching, you would just have done it.


----------



## mugsymugsy (6 Nov 2018)

Great post. Noted for future just go straight to new company and not bother calling existing. Can't wait to have the farce with Vodafone next month. If they can just leave me on the broadband and phonr deal I have been on the last 12 months then that would wonderful


----------



## Monbretia (6 Nov 2018)

I had a call from Vodafone today offering mr super duper broadband speed especially for me   I had been chosen for a special discount! yeh right.  Anyway it would cost me 25 a month for 6 months then 50 thereafter.  I pay 45 at the moment.  Thing is I am perfectly happy with the speed I have, I don't watch films or play games or anything that might need speed.  Looking up AAM and a few emails doesn't take a lot so I declined his kind offer.


----------



## qwerty5 (6 Nov 2018)

Bord Gais ring when you're getting close to the end of your contract.

I can't remember what they offered me. It was something like €70 of one of my bills 4000 club card points and a continuation of the monthly discount.

I thought it was quite proactive. I have a history of switching so maybe I'm on a list. Prior to the call I had a reminder set up in my calendar to shop around


----------



## shweeney (8 Nov 2018)

qwerty5 said:


> Bord Gais ring when you're getting close to the end of your contract.
> 
> I can't remember what they offered me. It was something like €70 of one of my bills 4000 club card points and a continuation of the monthly discount.
> 
> I thought it was quite proactive. I have a history of switching so maybe I'm on a list. Prior to the call I had a reminder set up in my calendar to shop around



I had nothing but billing problems when I was with BGE - they never correctly applied the discounts, their bills were deliberately designed to make it difficult to see what you were being charged and their customer service agents struggled with basic maths when I complained. Never again, I don't care what fantastic discounts they're offering, it's meaningless if they're not actually applying them to your bill.


----------



## gipimann (8 Nov 2018)

shweeney said:


> I had nothing but billing problems when I was with BGE - they never correctly applied the discounts, their bills were deliberately designed to make it difficult to see what you were being charged and their customer service agents struggled with basic maths when I complained. Never again, I don't care what fantastic discounts they're offering, it's meaningless if they're not actually applying them to your bill.



And for a similar reason, I switched from Just Energy (gas) even though they are currently cheapest.  My experience was that they billed in the opposite month to meter readings, and therefore used estimates for every bill.   They ignored my customer readings too.  It took 4 bill cycles (8 months) and a recalled direct debit to finally sort it out.


----------



## Jazz01 (8 Nov 2018)

shweeney said:


> I had nothing but billing problems when I was with BGE - they never correctly applied the discounts, their bills were deliberately designed to make it difficult to see what you were being charged and their customer service agents struggled with basic maths when I complained





gipimann said:


> I switched from Just Energy (gas) even though they are currently cheapest. My experience was that they billed in the opposite month to meter readings, and therefore used estimates for every bill. They ignored my customer reading



Are such issues as these are stopping people from moving regularly - regardless of the discounts being offered. As people may have experienced poor customer support, slowness to resolve issues by the companies, taking money when they shouldn't etc etc, incorrect billing etc - people don't want to deal with this on an ongoing basis. Is any saving worth the stress of sorting issues out, if or when they appear? Granted - not everyone runs into issues, but ...


----------



## Brendan Burgess (8 Nov 2018)

Guys

Because of all this messing and because I am not as organised as GNF , I took up the Electric Ireland deal

*Is there a gas and electricity supplier which rewards loyal customers?*

They have the same price for new and existing customers so they don't exploit the inertia of loyal customers.

They do pay €200 to switchers so I wonder does that make them the same as the others?

If you remember to switch every year, then I suppose you should.

Did someone launch a service where they would manage your utilities for you and switch you automatically to get the best rate? Maybe that was in the UK? 

Brendan


----------



## Leo (8 Nov 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Did someone launch a service where they would manage your utilities for you and switch you automatically to get the best rate?



OneBigSwitch?


----------



## aristotle (9 Nov 2018)

I have used bonkers.ie in the past to switch which works really well. One thing I noticed when I switched to Energia this year I got an extra €50 credit on my bill for applying directing on the energia website rather than through bonkers.ie. The same discount rates were available on both sites so may as well get €50 for doing it direct with Energia.


----------



## mugsymugsy (9 Nov 2018)

I use bonkers to see the deals and then go direct as well.


----------



## peemac (9 Nov 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Did someone launch a service where they would manage your utilities for you and switch you automatically to get the best rate? Maybe that was in the UK?
> 
> Brendan



I always thought that this would be a great idea til someone told me that most people would hate to pay for such a service. 

I went to panda power over 2 years ago and they call me a couple of weeks before contract is up asking if I want the same deal.

I possibly could get a slightly better deal elsewhere, but time is money too.


----------



## Lightning (10 Nov 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They do pay €200 to switchers so I wonder does that make them the same as the others?



Yes, Electric Ireland charge less for new customers, via cashback, than existing customers. New customers are treated differently to existing customers, it's just via cashback rather than unit price but it is the same principal.


----------



## SDMXTWO (22 Nov 2018)

Maybe someone can explain this, I switched from EI to BG in Sept and signed to Level Pay at x per month. I see checking my online bill this morning that the Level Pay will now change to 30.00 euro extra per month. No explaination.


----------



## mugsymugsy (22 Nov 2018)

I could be wrong but they have seen your usage and decided you need to pay extra.

Not a massive fan of level pay as when you want to exit the contract you have to mess around with refunds.


----------



## SDMXTWO (22 Nov 2018)

Well I gave them my yearly usage for last year and they came up with a number€, but this almost 350€ extra which seems dearer than EI pay as you go meter. I am awaiting an answer from BG.


----------



## Mrs Vimes (22 Nov 2018)

I looked into Level Pay with Bord Gais a few years ago when they rang me up to try and push it. Fortunately I had looked into it already and had found out that you have to pay 20% more than your usual usage amount. The person on the phone admitted they hadn't planned to point that out to me.

Of course, that's so that you won't end up with a big bill down the line.

You'd have to be really cynical to think it was actually to tie you in to them because you have a huge credit on your account and doubt as to how long a refund would take.


----------



## SDMXTWO (22 Nov 2018)

The wording I read now would have made me more wary had I seen it, whats the point in organising your agreed payments when they can decide to change that amount whether you can afford it or not. This 30€ increase will hit right at Christmas of course. This was not outlined to me at all when the sell was going on, it was give us your usage and we'll divide by twelve. After two months before the real winter has hit they have upped it by 30€. Im not happy with that as my cooling off period is over. Will I be penalised if I change?


You'll receive a monthly payment amount _based on your annual usage_

You'll choose a monthly payment date that suits you

Each month we'll deduct *the agreed payment** amount* by Direct Debit

We will regularly review your account and *your amount may change depending on your usage* and payments. If so we will notify you on your bill and by text message


----------



## Sean Og (23 Nov 2018)

Mrs Vimes said:


> I looked into Level Pay with Bord Gais a few years ago when they rang me up to try and push it. Fortunately I had looked into it already and had found out that you have to pay 20% more than your usual usage amount. The person on the phone admitted they hadn't planned to point that out to me.
> 
> Of course, that's so that you won't end up with a big bill down the line.
> 
> You'd have to be really cynical to think it was actually to tie you in to them because you have a huge credit on your account and doubt as to how long a refund would take.


I am on level pay with BG, i didn't realise this. Am i paying 20% more for this service?


----------



## aristotle (23 Nov 2018)

Sean Og said:


> I am on level pay with BG, i didn't realise this. Am i paying 20% more for this service?



No, they might add 20% more to what you paid last year so that you dont have a big unpaid bill at the end of this year if for some reason you use more electricity than the previous year. If you dont do that they you get a refund.

I was on level pay previously and received a refund very promptly after I moved to Energia. I can see the benefit in level pay and at the time time it was the best unit rates I could find.


----------



## jpd (23 Nov 2018)

According to the Bord Gais website



> *How does Level Pay work?*
> We take the gas usage of your home over the last 12 months and apply our current prices to calculate an annual bill. We then divide by 12 to create a monthly payment amount which is paid by Direct Debit.


----------



## SDMXTWO (28 Nov 2018)

So this is the reply I received:

_I’ve had a review of your account and can see the reason why your level pay has to go up. Your first two month bill which shows the usage in your property has come in at €278.07. This bill was issued off an actual read so is correct. If you continued to pay €81.00 a month (edit: *which is what I signed up for) *a balance would build up as you are using more than you are paying for. Due to this it has risen to €110.09. Level pay direct debit is a form of direct debit where regular monthly payments are debited based on your annual consumption. *It reviews your last 12 months usage and splits this into 12 equal payments*. It aims to spread your bills across the course for the year, therefore avoiding higher bills in winter and lower bills in summer. You build up credit during the summer, and then this is used towards your higher consumption in the winter. The system reviews itself every 2 months based on your usage and account balance, and if your usage is higher or lower than forecasted, the payments will increase or decrease accordingly. If the payments are set to change at all, you will be notified at least 30 days in advance.

I offered to pay weekly to make up the extra so as the bill would be covered - then:

Extra payments on the side wont impact the future payments in the short term the system won’t account for this. What I might advise in this case is to cancel the Level pay section of your direct debit. This would work in that you could make payments against the balance as you are saying and then the remainder would be taken fourteen days after the next bill issues. The downside to this is you would lose the Level Pay discount of two percent.

_
Can someone explain that last paragraph to me.


----------



## SDMXTWO (28 Nov 2018)

jpd said:


> According to the Bord Gais website


 *How does Level Pay work?*
We take the gas usage of your home over the last 12 months and apply our current prices to calculate an annual bill. We then divide by 12 to create a monthly payment amount which is paid by Direct Debit.

Which is what I did and they worked it out as x, but as you can see above from their reply "..._The system reviews itself every 2 months based on your usage...". _So that does not seem very level to me.


----------



## Leo (28 Nov 2018)

SDMXTWO said:


> Can someone explain that last paragraph to me.



I believe the suggestion is that you effectively manage a level pay yourself, i.e., over pay your bills during the summer months yo build up a credit on your account that will reduce your winter bills.


----------



## SDMXTWO (28 Nov 2018)

BordGais - Welcome to Home Electricity, booklet page 8 reads:

Level Pay.
Level Pay helps you to smooth out the ups and downs of electricity costs over the year. Signing up for Level Pay means you can budget better as you *always know how much your payment will be*. Whether we're in the grips of winter or enjoying summer sun, *your payment stays the same*. Together, *we'll agree how much you'll pay each month*, based on your previous payments. All you need to do then is set up a Direct debit.


----------



## SDMXTWO (28 Nov 2018)

Leo said:


> I believe the suggestion is that you effectively manage a level pay yourself, i.e., over pay your bills during the summer months yo build up a credit on your account that will reduce your winter bills.



This is what is annoying me Leo: Whether we're in the grips of winter or enjoying summer sun, *your payment stays the same*. Bordgais welcome booklet page 8, and that is what I understood I was signing up for.

Google Bord Gais Level Pay = _Level Pay means a method of payment which facilitates customers making regular, payments for their electricity on a monthly basis via Direct Debit. 2. ... Payment amounts are based on your most recent consumption, your previous year's consumption and energy prices (divided by 12)._

_Level ie: A *level payment* mortgage is a type of mortgage that requires the same dollar*payment* each month or *payment* period. *Level payment* mortgages allow borrowers to know exactly how much they will have to *pay* on their mortgages each *pay* period._


----------



## Leo (29 Nov 2018)

SDMXTWO said:


> This is what is annoying me Leo: Whether we're in the grips of winter or enjoying summer sun, *your payment stays the same*.



And that's fair enough, it's likely they didn't explain how they come up with the monthly figure well enough, or your consumption over that initial period was significantly different to what they expected.

When you signed up, what details did you provide on you actual consumption over the previous 12 months? What did you pay in total for the 12 months prior to switching?

I'm not a fan of these level pay arrangements because the providers always seem to veer too much towards overestimating usage to protect against a situation where you might owe them extra, and also because of the stories I read here and elsewhere about consumers struggling to reclaim credit when switching suppliers.


----------



## SDMXTWO (29 Nov 2018)

Hi Leo, I was on an outside pay as you go metre which I paid online weekly as a rule. It is a more expensive option but it avoided big bills coming in and I always just paid in €25 pw every week winter and summer. I totted up the kw used the previous year and gave it to them and they said fine €81 pm (€20pw) so I thought fine save €20 pm. Remember their booklet: Whether we're in the grips of winter or enjoying summer sun, *your payment stays the same*. So that is my gripe. This morning I am back to paying weekly to BordGais, losing my 2% but my bill will be €30.00pm more than originally budgeted for over the winter. So it will take me a year to find out if there will be any savings at all as I will go back to paying €25pw and pay the extra when the bill comes in.


----------



## Leo (29 Nov 2018)

Well, it obviously can't stay the same forever. They do periodic reviews and if your usage levels suggest you might exceed the existing estimate, they will increase the monthly charge. If they think you'll consume less, they will lower the monthly charge.

What was your total kWh over the previous 12 months, what was the consumption for your first two months, and for the same period the previous year?

These reviews and the adjusting of the monthly amount is all covered in the terms, including:



> We make no guarantee that your Payment Amount will remain the same for any period of time.


----------



## Gervan (29 Nov 2018)

I think SDMXTWO you have just misunderstood the concept of level pay. 
I am on level pay with Bord Gais, started off at €88 a month and they notified me two months in advance that my Nov payment would be less. So I do know in advance what will go out of my account.
What I cannot know in advance, and nor can Bord Gais,  is how much electricity I will be using.
Obviously we must pay for what we have actually used, not what we said we would use.

I signed up without a contract, and can leave at any time. If you are unhappy SDMXTWO perhaps you are in the same position?


----------



## SDMXTWO (29 Nov 2018)

Remember their booklet: _Whether we're in the grips of winter or enjoying summer sun, *your payment stays the same*._

Well this is the deal now:

_Thanks for your recent email to Bord Gáis Energy.
*Unfortunately that statement is incorrect*. If you wish I can cancel the level pay. This would lose you a two percent discount. You can make weekly payments as you suggested before. I will void the security deposit for you *as the leaflet misinformed you.*
The alternative to this as my colleague advise would be to leave the direct debit set up on your account and make payments weekly and if there is a balance owing when your bill is issued the balance will be taken by direct debit 14 days after the bill is issued.

My apologies for any inconvenience caused.
_
So I will just pay by the week online as I used to do with Electric Ireland PAYG.


----------



## elcato (29 Nov 2018)

SDMXTWO said:


> So I will just pay by the week online as I used to do with Electric Ireland PAYG.


and lose a 2% discount ?


----------



## SDMXTWO (29 Nov 2018)

No, keep Levelpay and 2%,_  'leave the direct debit set up on your account and make payments weekly and if there is a balance owing' etc.
_
Because originally they do not allow you to make any deposits and work solely on Direct Debit.


----------

