# The bank has lost my mortgage documentation



## PiedPiper (27 Oct 2010)

Hi

My bank have lost my file they have no morgage documentation no facility letters no terms and conditions no nothing.

What will they try to do now??


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## Marietta (27 Oct 2010)

What happened to it surely it has got to be somewhere.

Does that mean you are free of your mortgage and bank loans, you are lucky


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## mf1 (27 Oct 2010)

PiedPiper said:


> Hi
> 
> My bank have lost my file they have no morgage documentation no facility letters no terms and conditions no nothing.
> 
> What will they try to do now??



What are you asking? 
What are the circumstances? 
Did you  get a mortgage? 
Have you repaid any of it? 
Is there a charge registered against your property? 
Do you owe money to them? 
Are you in arrears?
Did you never draw down? 
Are you trying to draw down? 
Do you have any copy documentation? 

mf


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## PiedPiper (28 Oct 2010)

What are you asking? 

What in it for me I suppose.

What are the circumstances? 
I just wonder why the haven't told me I got my file under freedom of information

Did you get a mortgage? Yes
Have you repaid any of it? Interest only  
Is there a charge registered against your property? don't know but will find out.
Do you owe money to them? Yes
Are you in arrears? No
Did you never draw down? Yes
Are you trying to draw down? No
Do you have any copy documentation? some of it

The bank have been hugely aggressive in their dealings with me to date. 
Getting the file under freedom of information is the best thing I have ever done.
They opened an account in my name and ran up an overdraft without telling me, renaged on an interst only agreement, lied about meetings and so on.

Its like just because there is a recession there is no rule book


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## JoeB (28 Oct 2010)

What a lucky boy. (or girl)

It seems you don't need to pay the mortgage.

People may say that you do.. but why? Loans have been transferred to NAMA at 100% discount because of problems with paperwork, so you should receive the same treatment.

Or do people think we should have one rule for failed banks and developers?, and another rule for the small guy?

I'd suggest engaging a solicitor and let him deal with the bank. I wouldn't accept that I owe the money unless the bank can take sucessful action in the courts, otherwise I wouldn't pay. You need a solicitors advice for this.


Who is holding the deeds for the house? If the bank then I'd be asking for them back (thru my solicitor). 


People may say you got the loan and you should pay it back.. this may be considered the correct thing to do, but it may just encourage the banks to not bother with paperwork and correct processes, so it results in a moral hazard... the bank must learn their lesson and take their medicine,.. so don't pay them.


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## redbhoy (28 Oct 2010)

Looks like you should be laughing all the way to the bank.... oh wait. 

I doubt they have anyones original documents. Google -Securitisation of debt.


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## JoeB (28 Oct 2010)

and what will Google say?


Why did banks transfer loans to NAMA at 100% discount if lack of paperwork isn't an issue?


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## callybags (28 Oct 2010)

They could transfer the loan to NAMA but would still have to pay it all back.

NAMA haven't written off a cent of any loan they have taken over.


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## JoeB (28 Oct 2010)

That is likely to be correct. But it still indicates that the bank were prepared to lose 100% on the loan.. the bank get absolutely nothing out of transferring a loan for free. So the bank must not be prepared to chase loans with no paperwork.. I wonder what NAMA will do?

If I was the OP I'd look into the option of not paying the loan. Can the bank go to court with nothing?


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## pixiebean22 (28 Oct 2010)

I would assume that at some point the OP made a repayment, perhaps numerous repayments on this mortgage, in which case the court would see this as acceptance that a mortgage agreement or at least a loan agreement was in place.  It would be very hard for the OP to say there was no mortgage agreement in place if he/she has been making repayments.


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## JoeB (28 Oct 2010)

yes, but again, why would the banks let loans go to NAMA for free if there was a chance they could receive payment?

Is paperwork ever necessary for a bank to go to court to obtain a judgement?


At the very least the OP should be allowed to move onto the most favourable loan product offered by the bank, either now or in the past.


The bank have no paperwork, so they may not even be able to determine the outstanding amount on the account.


If the OP stops paying then what? Will the bank go to the courts with no paperwork... nothing but a history of some payments in the past?


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## pixiebean22 (28 Oct 2010)

If the OP stops paying then what? Will the bank go to the courts with no paperwork... nothing but a history of some payments in the past?   Yes, they may go to court and I'd say they would be far more successful than the OP in trying to get out of the mortgage.


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## Mrs Vimes (28 Oct 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> and what will Google say?
> 
> 
> Why did banks transfer loans to NAMA at 100% discount if lack of paperwork isn't an issue?




I gather that the paperwork that NAMA discounted over was the *title* to the properties offered as security, not the mortgage documents, so the loans are still owed by the borrower (who NAMA insists it will chase).

If op has this sort of problem (no title to property mortgaged) then he is in a very bad situation.

Sybil


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## PiedPiper (28 Oct 2010)

Hi

I never signed the re mortgage facility letter but did sign the original mortgage for a much smaller amount.

Looks like I need a good solicitor


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## millieforbes (28 Oct 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> yes, but again, why would the banks let loans go to NAMA for free if there was a chance they could receive payment?


 
The banks don't have a choice - NAMA determines which assets it takes and it dictates the price it will pay for them based on the information the bank supplies. In cases where the loans have "gone for free" the Bank most likely did not have physical security against the loan (it may have relied on a guarantee), or had not "perfected" the security, from NAMA's point of view this means less chance of recovering the loan amount, hence the price they pay, however they will continue to pursue the borrower and attempt to recover the full amount of the loan. Ref the recent case with the Anglo loan that Anglo valued at 80m, NAMA bought for 40m and then sold for 180m


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## millieforbes (28 Oct 2010)

PiedPiper said:


> I just wonder why the haven't told me I got my file under freedom of information
> 
> The bank have been hugely aggressive in their dealings with me to date.
> Getting the file under freedom of information is the best thing I have ever done.
> ...


 
I'm a little cynical about how the bank would handle a freedom of informaiton request - I suspect it would get a lot less attention that a legal case where someone was attempting to renege on their mortgage. More documentation may very well turn up in the future under further scrutiny


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## huskerdu (28 Oct 2010)

PiedPiper said:


> Hi
> 
> I never signed the re mortgage facility letter but did sign the original mortgage for a much smaller amount.
> 
> Looks like I need a good solicitor



Yes, you do need proper legal advice. 

Someone on a website who says that you legally do no owe the bank money in your circumstances is not proper legal advice and the advice given here sounds like rubbish to me, but I'm no expert. 

All the NAMA references sound completely relevant to your case. 

I accept that you are angry with the way your bank has treated you and how the banking sector has treated all of us. 

However, if the bank pursues you for the money, and they might well do that, you will need a solid legal case and if you dont have one, you may lose, have to pay the legal fees and potentially interest and arrears if you had previously stopped paying. Its a risky game you are playing.


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## Andy_Goddard (2 Nov 2010)

What is the name of the Bank? I am just joking, you lucky person. In any case, I think you should seek professional legal/finance advice.

Andy


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