# Dole cheats: Should I report, and how to go about it?



## norbatious

Should dole cheats be reported,now i am not talking about joe soap doing a few hours  with the local farmer, or mrs soap doing a bit of housekeeping.

My brother works in construction, and had to lay off 3 employees before christmas and put the rest on a 3 day week, yet there are so called contractors doing jobs at cut price, because of no overheads and are drawing the dole, these guys are known to me.

Some of the work they are doing runs into €5 and €6k for less than a weeks work inc material but the profit  as we worked it out is over half.



Should I report, and how to go about it.


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## tonymahoney

*Re: Dole cheats*

Look this type of thing has been going on since the beginning of time - moonlighting will never go away - problem now is that in the recession there is not as much work to be had so while everyone was legitmally paying through the nose for construction work and the likes during the good times now during the bad times there is a necessity to offer "nixer" work at knock down prices. Best if you worry about yourself and let them off. and by the way I don't work in construction - never have - so i am not protecting anyone here. You are who you are and dole cheats will always be there - maybe the authorities will eventually catch up with them


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## norbatious

Who said anything about moonlighting or nixers. 

Its fcuking cheating and ripping off the taxpayer full stop, and if they were reported the country would be in some sort of better shape.

Its sending a 40 year old business, ,down the drain and with big debts because machinery cant be paid for, the work is there but when you are fully compliant and fully insured you have not got a chance, the over heads are too much

These guys all known to me are dole cheats , have medical cards, there houses are rent free,yet they drive about in big cars one has a year old VW passat,are we really that stupid to let them away with this.

I say everyone who knows a Dole cheat should report them..


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## tonymahoney

I can't argue with that opinion - I believe you have a very strong case to make but unfortunately most people won't snitch and will just look after themselves - I wish you well in these difficult times and its not much consolation but if you have your health and family (and I hope you do) no-one can take that away from you - best of luck


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## noel_k

According to this org chart the section you are looking for seems to be headed up by someone called Joan McMahon. This FOI list shows some direct dials including her number and those of some of the people reporting to her.


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## mathepac

norbatious said:


> ... I say everyone who knows a Dole cheat should report them..


Agreed - make the call.

Unfortunately I believe a laissez faire attitude to cheating pervades our country, to everyone's detriment.


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## coquito

Get a life lads. If these guys lived 10 lifetimes they wouldn't rip off what the politicians and the guys in the banks and the white collar sector have ripped off. Leave them alone and get on with your lives.


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## PaddyW

Dole cheats. So much worse than cheating bankers and cheating politicians. Off with their heads!


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## Mpsox

coquito said:


> Get a life lads. If these guys lived 10 lifetimes they wouldn't rip off what the politicians and the guys in the banks and the white collar sector have ripped off. Leave them alone and get on with your lives.


 
So basically what you are saying is dont report a theft(which is what this is) because someone else has stolen more????

It's your money and my money that is being used to pay dole cheats


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## Caveat

I would gladly report any dole cheat.


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## extopia

I don't think the OP is in any doubt as to what to do. If I were in the same position I would report a cheat who was taking my business away. However, there's no guarantee that you will get the business at your higher price even if you put the cheats out of the game.


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## ninsaga

Report them. Just do it.


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## Smashbox

Report the lot of them!!


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## MrMan

coquito said:


> Get a life lads. If these guys lived 10 lifetimes they wouldn't rip off what the politicians and the guys in the banks and the white collar sector have ripped off. Leave them alone and get on with your lives.


 
Goes to show we only like blaming the guys in supposed authority anything closer to home might make us look a little closer at our own integrity. You can't beat selective morals.


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## SteH

For every person that will report a cheat there are many that won't. Perhaps for a balanced society we need a certain amount of people to report others and therefore discourage the practice. Where is the discouragement otherwise. 

Perhaps then it may filter up to cops, councilors and politicians who take backhanders. Corruption is rife in this society, it may be a topic for another place but it can really hurt a country. Just look at Italy.


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## Welfarite

You should and can report them to any SW or Revenue office. Give as much detail as you can, places/times  of work, names of people involved, etc.. You can do it anonymously if you want.


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## DeeFox

MrMan said:


> Goes to show we only like blaming the guys in supposed authority anything closer to home might make us look a little closer at our own integrity. You can't beat selective morals.


 
Well said - I agree with reporting them.


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## jhegarty

coquito said:


> Get a life lads. If these guys lived 10 lifetimes they wouldn't rip off what the politicians and the guys in the banks and the white collar sector have ripped off. Leave them alone and get on with your lives.





And if someone stole you car they won't be as bad as murderers, so you would just left them live their lives ?


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## Guest106

We should not tolerate dole cheats or tax cheats in any manner.  They are taking money from the pockets of legitimate taxpayers and ensuring that those taxpayers have to pay more.
Forget the convoluted discussions, that's the plain factual irrefutable situation we have.  They are defrauding you and me.

Would you stand at the bar and pay €5 for your pint if the guy in front of you had just got his for €4 ?  No you damn well wouldn't.  You'd have quite a lot to say about it there and then.

It's the remoteness factor that stifles the response.


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## tallpaul

Caveat said:


> I would gladly report any dole cheat.


 
+1

Report them. Along with insurance fraud, Revenue cheats and anyone else who is extracting money illegally from scarce public resources.


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## johnwilliams

and don't forget the polish who have gone home to jobs in poland and come over here every couple of weeks to collect the dole


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## monascribe18

now i hear in poland the ''no irish wanted signs'' are  being put out,and the poles don,t need to come back for their dole its sent out to them

crooked bankers and polititions do more damage than any moonlighters will ever do


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## Eblanoid

johnwilliams said:


> and don't forget the polish who have gone home to jobs in poland and come over here every couple of weeks to collect the dole



Eh, figures please?  Since July 2008 the dole has to be collected in person weekly.

[broken link removed]

Don't forget the approximately 95,000 long-term unemployed Irish who couldn't be bothered getting a job during the boom years. Instead non-English speakers came from all over Europe to do the jobs these long-term no-hopers refused to do.

Nice attempt at a racist smear, though.


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## mercman

Go for them and fair play to you.


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## Eblanoid

monascribe18 said:


> now i hear in poland the ''no irish wanted signs'' are  being put out



Any proof of that, photographic or otherwise?  The only person who claims this is Kilcoyne, who also failed to provide evidencė; he was just spreading hearsay.

http://www.independent.ie/national-...lish-builders-get-their-own-back-1589265.html



monascribe18 said:


> and the poles don,t need to come back for their dole its sent out to them



A pathetic lie.  Since July 2008 the dole has to be collected in person weekly.

[broken link removed]


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## postman pat

aaah... lads as we go down the swanny ..lets attack each other...jeez we all have a responsibility for the way things are,we were sold a pup..but we gladly bought it


 Pat


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## MandaC

I signed on in July 2008.  (For 2 weeks)

I have gotten a new job and was complaining that I had to collect my money in person rather than it going into my account.  The system had just changed.

The person in the SW office specifically told me that it was because of the Polish (and he mentioned them by race) who were coming out to sign once a month and getting money paid direct into the bank account, so there is some truth in that.


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## PaddyW

Eblanoid said:


> Any proof of that, photographic or otherwise?  The only person who claims this is Kilcoyne, who also failed to provide evidencė; he was just spreading hearsay.
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/national-...lish-builders-get-their-own-back-1589265.html



I've been told this by Irish AND Polish people alike. A bit more than hearsay I would imagine.


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## Eblanoid

PaddyW said:


> I've been told this by Irish AND Polish people alike. A bit more than hearsay I would imagine.



No, that's the definition of hearsay: a rumour without evidence.
All these Irish people have been to Poland and seen the signs, have they?  Take any photos?


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## webtax

Report it to your tax office also, since they are probably due a substantial tax bill.


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## Ethan 1

monascribe18 said:


> now i hear in poland the ''no irish wanted signs'' are  being put out,and the poles don,t need to come back for their dole its sent out to them



This stuff only breeds racism , unless, as already said you can provide hard evidence, it should be withdrawn. Surely Poland, as a member state of the EU, one would suspect that they have similar discrimination laws to ourselves.


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## Caveat

Ethan 1 said:


> Surely Poland, as a member state of the EU, one would suspect that they have similar discrimination laws to ourselves.


 
Well you would think so, but from my own experience casual racism, sexism & homophobia is rampant in Poland.

I know quite a few Poles most of whom are educated professionals - nice people, but their attitude to black people is absolutely shocking.

These signs (if they do even exist) could well go unremarked upon I would imagine.


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## Smashbox

Caveat said:


> I know quite a few Poles most of whom are educated professionals - nice people, but their attitude to black people is absolutely shocking.


 
I completly agree


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## PaddyW

+2


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## Imbroke

If you do report them, I hope nobody finds out it was you! Even though you are doing the right thing you will still be labelled as a "rat" and an "informer". Not a nice reputation to have when you go to your local pub!


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## TheBlock

I'd have no problem with a thief (Who's stole from me by the way) calling me a "rat".


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## march

Report Report Report!

Its our money and it doesn't matter who is ripping off this country their f**c**n heads should roll whoever they are - and the first should be the politicians and benefits thieves!!


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## Welfarite

Imbroke said:


> If you do report them, I hope nobody finds out it was you! Even though you are doing the right thing you will still be labelled as a "rat" and an "informer". Not a nice reputation to have when you go to your local pub!


 

I'm not too sure that this is (should be?) the attitude in the current climate. Attitudes change. Remember, only a few years ago the general atttitute was that it was 'ok' to drive 'after a few pints'......


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## Mpsox

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr210109.aspx

This is what social welfare fraud cost the country last year. If those thieves (because that is what they are) had not been caught, then the cost to the average PAYE taxpayer in the country would have been around €700 per person per annum. 

Therefore for those who think it is ok not to report dole and social welfare cheats, the question is simple, do you want to pay more in taxes to fund this? I don't

Report the cheats


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## howyanow

Its ridiculous!! People that are genuinely out of work are finding it next to impossible to even get the dole...not to mind these "bushpigs" trying to grab all they can get at the cost of us tax payers. Maybe if there were more people like yourself then there could be a balanced scale in the country!


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## howyanow

Wrong! You can easily collect someone elses dole. Signing a name to a piece of paper & quoting a pps isnt rocket science...& thats exactly what their doing! ...It didnt help the country when they came in ...spent nothing in the local community...& off they went again with all their money back to wherever! Grand for them but where does it leave us?...Where we are now!


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## Eblanoid

howyanow said:


> Wrong! You can easily collect someone elses dole. Signing a name to a piece of paper & quoting a pps isnt rocket science...& thats exactly what their doing!



All of them?  Have any proof of your accusations?



howyanow said:


> It didnt help the country when they came in ...spent nothing in the local community...& off they went again with all their money back to wherever!



This is getting pathetic.
Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants spent nothing in Ireland while working here? Were they flying back to their home countries every night for dinner and bed?  You also conveniently forget that immigrants pay tax like anyone else.


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## jhegarty

Eblanoid said:


> This is getting pathetic.
> Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants spent nothing in Ireland while working here? Were they flying back to their home countries every night for dinner and bed?  You also conveniently forget that immigrants pay tax like anyone else.




Exactly. Once they paid tax they fulfilled any obligation they had.


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## levelpar

> Should dole cheats be reported,now i am not talking about joe soap doing a few hours with the local farmer, or mrs soap doing a bit of housekeeping


 
Where would you draw the line ?



> Its fcuking cheating


 
You don't need the adjective.


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## sparkeee

yes and while your at it report Bertie Ahern and Beverly Flynn it aint right but its only not right for working class people,if your the Irish royal family you get away with everything.


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## sparkeee

howyanow said:


> Its ridiculous!! People that are genuinely out of work are finding it next to impossible to even get the dole...not to mind these "bushpigs" trying to grab all they can get at the cost of us tax payers. Maybe if there were more people like yourself then there could be a balanced scale in the country!


  Whats a bush pig?


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## nesbitt

sparkeee said:


> Whats a bush pig?


 
I imagine its some sort of 'never do well'...


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## pudds

coquito said:


> Get a life lads. If these guys lived 10 lifetimes they wouldn't rip off what the politicians and the guys in the banks and the white collar sector have ripped off. Leave them alone and get on with your lives.



Two wrongs don't make a right, report report report em b4 we all go down the tubes.


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## noelf

Hang them from the rafters of the houses they are working in. 
Shame the people employing them cant be hung by the toes too.
Amazing how people worry about being ripped of by contractors and still give these yokes work.
9 time out of 10 its substandard work that is being done anyway.


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## z103

> This is what social welfare fraud cost the country last year.


Just half a billion? - and how much to collect this money?
bertie and co. cost us much, much more with their bank 'guarantee' and Anglo fiasco.



> If those thieves (because that is what they are) had not been caught, then the cost to the average PAYE taxpayer in the country would have been around €700 per person per annum.


Dole cheats = €700
Anglo = €20000


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## kingspoofer

howyanow said:


> Its ridiculous!! People that are genuinely out of work are finding it next to impossible to even get the dole...not to mind these "bushpigs" trying to grab all they can get at the cost of us tax payers. Maybe if there were more people like yourself then there could be a balanced scale in the country!


 
 Agree. I am 26 years old working since I left school don't know where to go to even draw the dole but would not hesitate to draw it if I was out of work. If everyone who was not supposed to get the dole didn't receive the dole maybe I wouldn't have to pay so much tax and they could even put money towards the health system. But some people can't be bothered it easy to play the system. see it happening all the time woman has a child gets a house from the council partner moves in they have a next to free house. The more children they have the bigger it gets and normal joe soap who pays his way has to pay through the roof for a mortgage working hard to keep his head above water.Report them less tax for people who are willing to work within the law.


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## S.L.F

noelf said:


> Hang them from the rafters of the houses they are working in.
> Shame the people employing them cant be hung by the toes too.
> Amazing how people worry about being ripped of by contractors and still give these yokes work.
> 9 time out of 10 its substandard work that is being done anyway.


 
I'd love a situation where people are fined for employing dole/tax cheats.



leghorn said:


> Dole cheats = €700
> Anglo = €20000


 


Speaking for myself I don't really have an opinion on the subject of whether or not to report them, there will always be dole cheats. 

If the only reason you are reporting them is because of your brothers failing business then sorry but it won't make any difference to his ability to pay bills.


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## Simeon

sparkeee said:


> Whats a bush pig?


Stuffed with a mixture of figs/dates/walnuts and roasted. Accompanied with  prunes/blueberries and served with porcini  ....... they're beautiful. Just the same as continental wild boar but from down under. Oh, I forgot and a few tinnies out of the cooler.


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## nesbitt

I think the system in place is so open to fraud that of course it is rife.  

I think the Governement would do well to close up all 'loop holes'in the existing system.  A central computerised system hinged on PPS Number showing all information, income, tax, SW, asset ownership, etc. etc.  Amalgamate all state information.  I think all bank/post office information should be disclosed as a compulsory requirement if you claim SW also.  I know it is 'big brother' and freedom of information may be of concern.  IMO if you have nothing to hide then nothing to fear...

Basically I feel the issue lies with no cross referencing/checking of information.  Fraudsters would be far more readily caught and deterred in the first place.


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## Complainer

nesbitt said:


> I think the system in place is so open to fraud that of course it is rife.
> 
> I think the Governement would do well to close up all 'loop holes'in the existing system.  A central computerised system hinged on PPS Number showing all information, income, tax, SW, asset ownership, etc. etc.  Amalgamate all state information.  I think all bank/post office information should be disclosed as a compulsory requirement if you claim SW also.  I know it is 'big brother' and freedom of information may be of concern.  IMO if you have nothing to hide then nothing to fear...
> 
> Basically I feel the issue lies with no cross referencing/checking of information.  Fraudsters would be far more readily caught and deterred in the first place.



Funny that you should mention a centralised computer system - Those lads in Dept Finance are ahead of you - see [broken link removed]


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## nesbitt

Well if it occurred to me then I hoped some ejitts in power might actually be working on it too..

Seriously though it is patently obvious that one hand does not know what the other is doing and officials just do their jobs worth (fair enough) with the system they have.


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## NHG

Why can't they have a photographic system for collecting dole etc, I was told at the weekend about a guy who is working for a builder and who collects his friends dole for him. His friend pays him €25 each time for his trouble and the friend does'nt even have to fly into Ireland any more to sign for his dole.

I don't know the guy or the builder, it was just a conversation with a group of individuals trying to sort our country as you do when in a queue.

Even to get into the local swimming pool if you are a member you have to use your swipe key which brings up your photo on their computer screen, it can't be that difficult to have a system in place something simular.


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## nesbitt

NHG said:


> Why can't they have a photographic system for collecting dole etc, I was told at the weekend about a guy who is working for a builder and who collects his friends dole for him. His friend pays him €25 each time for his trouble and the friend does'nt even have to fly into Ireland any more to sign for his dole.
> 
> I don't know the guy or the builder, it was just a conversation with a group of individuals trying to sort our country as you do when in a queue.
> 
> Even to get into the local swimming pool if you are a member you have to use your swipe key which brings up your photo on their computer screen, it can't be that difficult to have a system in place something simular.


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## nesbitt

It occurred to me as I queued in the Post Office the other day, that indeed it appeared to be very easy to just produce the plastic card at the window for someone else...  I queued for 20 minutes and had nought else to do but observe...  No one was asked for photo ID, not once!  I was like a divil because I was posting back a faulty online purchase and must have arrived at the wrong time of day, ie lunchtime...


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## Mpsox

leghorn said:


> Just half a billion? - and how much to collect this money?
> bertie and co. cost us much, much more with their bank 'guarantee' and Anglo fiasco.
> 
> 
> Dole cheats = €700
> Anglo = €20000


 
What has that got to do with dole cheats? It's the laziest answer in the world to say that because "bertie and co cost us much more", everyone else should be able to get away with things. 2 wrongs don't make a right. The fact that Anglo may indeed cost the taxpayer much more is not a reason in itself to allow dole cheats to defraud the taxpayer.


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## summersun

go to welfare.ie and find the local office for the dishonest claimant, or phone directory  address an unsigned letter to social welfare inspector at that office giving as much information as you can,


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## Elphaba

Mpsox said:


> It's your money and my money that is being used to pay dole cheats


 
And its also your money thats been used to bail out the banks, if it wasn't for the banks reckless lending, people wouldn't be in this mess. The reckless mismanagement of finance by our government, only encourages
a nixer generation. We are a welfare state, this whole area, needs radical change as its constantly being abused. The fundamental problem is the governing of our state, until the core of the problem is fixed, which may take many years, the problem will only increase, leaving the government in a worse state than it is already.


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## Mpsox

Elphaba said:


> And its also your money thats been used to bail out the banks, if it wasn't for the banks reckless lending, people wouldn't be in this mess. The reckless mismanagement of finance by our government, only encourages
> a nixer generation. We are a welfare state, this whole area, needs radical change as its constantly being abused. The fundamental problem is the governing of our state, until the core of the problem is fixed, which may take many years, the problem will only increase, leaving the government in a worse state than it is already.


 
I can't argue with anything you are saying on this, but nevertheless, I see no reason, regardless of what has happened elsewhere, why my taxes should be used to fund the lives of fraudsters.


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## dub_nerd

+1 ... the excuse that "I only did it because someone else did it first" has been around since Adam, Eve, and the apple.


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## Elphaba

Mpsox said:


> I can't argue with anything you are saying on this, but nevertheless, I see no reason, regardless of what has happened elsewhere, why my taxes should be used to fund the lives of fraudsters.


 
Precisely, your taxes and mine, fund the lives of fraudsters in many guises, not just your average Joe Bloggs who does a nixer for cash,
What about the governments inept management and wastage of our
taxes over the past few years, the thousands they spend every year
on public relations spin, not to mention countless other failures at tax payers expense. You forget your tax is also been used to bail out the banks, and the blue collar criminals that ran them. So there are worse
fraudsters out there, much worse than the working classes.


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