# Government to give €46,000 to the Consumers Association of Ireland



## Lightning (27 Jan 2013)

The Sunday Times reports that Richard Bruton is to give 46,000 EUR of tax payers money to the CAI. The same CAI that have made is very difficult for people to cancel their subscriptions. Should the government really be subsidising the CAI? 



CiaranT said:


> The asking price has recently [broken link removed]. The property has still not sold.



The Sunday Times reports that an offer of 600,000 EUR has been made for the property.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Jan 2013)

Hi Ciarán

The government should certainly be funding consumer activism.  A voluntary group can make a big contribution. 

Whether they should be supporting the CAI is questionable. It's not an effective organisation.  I didn't see the story but I had understood that the government was prepared to subsidise projects only and not the ongoing costs of the Association.


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## Lightning (27 Jan 2013)

Hi Brendan, 

Agreed that the government should assist with funding for appropriate consumer information, research and activism. I just don't think the CAI are best placed to do this. 

The 46,000 EUR will be used to fund an advertisement campaign for the CAI. The advertisement campaign will direct people towards to CAI if they have a consumer issue. Is this a good use of funds? They have acted less then honorably lately with questionable statistics, non-response to consumer requests to cancel subscriptions and a dated website. 

I think the money would be better spent elsewhere on other consumer related activities, and not with the CAI.


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## Calico (27 Jan 2013)

Anything to do with this?

*Consumers' Association of Ireland: Invitation to Tender*

The Consumers' Association of Ireland (CAI) is a wholly independent, non-profit, non-government organisation registered with charitable status. It is a membership organisation and produces a monthly magazine Consumer Choice for its Member subscribers available only through the CAI website at www.thecai.ie. The site offers Members research access to over 4 years of research and tests.  The CAI, uniquely, also produces Ireland’s only entirely independent product tests.

The Association is keen to change and re-focus its consumer-facing identity, lobbying, media interaction and membership recruitment. Our goal is to better interact and engage with our Members but also to present a platform for other offerings to non-members through an up to date, accessible and valued portal.

*We require:*
Proposals for support to undertake Marketing and other initiatives to create awareness among Irish Consumers of the independence, role and activities of the Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI) on their behalf and the benefits of Membership of the CAI.

*A Targeted Campaign*
The goal of the marketing initiative is to enhance the reputation and extend the reach of the Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI) through the procurement of the services, by process of tender, of an experienced professional company or individual who will undertake, organise, provide and guide this targeted campaign to impress the CAI’s activities, offerings and digital presence in Ireland. Including, but not limited to:


Utilise and build upon the capacity and capabilities of the new website to heighten interactivity and engagement with consumers;
Enhance the reputation of the CAI in the areas of membership growth while meeting the terms of our mission which is to independently protect, promote and represent the interests of consumers;
Facilitate a system for regular Consumer Polling on issues of concern and importance which would allow specialised and focussed consumer response and significantly increased traffic through the website;
Review existing and develop partnerships with Google, Facebook and other relevant and active social media outlets, platforms and forums to create awareness of the presence of the CAI, the availability of its unique and independent Product Tests and its monthly research issues available through Consumer Choice Online and to increase sales;
Design a structure through which there can be a targeted online presence – relevant to consumers’ needs;
In what are extremely difficult times for Irish consumers review to provide, upgrade or extend:
     -    offers to attract and expand the CAI Membership;
     -    presentation of Consumer Choice magazine in formats varied, more relevant and appealing for Online subscribers;
     -    Online video delivery and including podcasts;
     -    Better internal analysis of the existing Complaint Register forum and information facilities for visitors;
     -    Review and , if necessary, upgrading of the online payment facility;
     -    The development of a CAI App.

We are unable to provide a guide on cost but would advise that, due to the nature of the organisation, our budget is limited and we will be therefore determining choice of provider from their ‘can-do’ approach matched with a realistic costing.

*Closing Date:* Monday January 28th. 5.00pm.
*FAO:* Dermott Jewell, CEO.
*Return To: *Consumers’ Association of Ireland, 43-44 Chelmsford Road, Ranelagh, Dublin 6 and/or to Email: cai@thecai.ie

[broken link removed]


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Jan 2013)

Hi Calico

That is it exactly.  Here is a Dail question and answer on it. 
*121. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation if he has had any meeting
since July 2012 with the Consumers Association of Ireland to discuss their funding
problems and consumer issues; if there are any plans for follow up meetings; and if he
will make a statement on the matter. — Patrick Nulty. [3170/13]


R E P L Y

Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Mr Bruton)

Following my initial meeting with the Consumers’ Association of
Ireland on 25th June 2012, I met again with the Association on 20th
December 2012 to discuss the details of its application for funding in
2012. In the course of the meeting, the Association provided further
detailed information in relation to a marketing project in respect of
which it was seeking support and in particular the performance
indicators that it intended to employ so as to maximise the value for
money from this project. Following the meeting, funding in the amount
of €46,865 was approved to support the marketing project. As part of
the agreement to provide funding support, the Association has
committed to providing my Department with quarterly reports in
relation to the various performance indicators identified in respect
of the marketing project.
As I have previously stated, it is essential that all public bodies
ensure that value for money is a key consideration in any expenditure
of public funds and accordingly this has been the main focus of my
discussions with the Consumers’ Association of Ireland in relation to
its application for funding support.


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## Lightning (12 Jan 2014)

According, to the Sunday Times ...


Bruton has given a further 45,000 EUR of taxpayers money to the CAI. 
The CAI have only spent 58% of the 47,000 EUR awarded last year. 
4 civil servants objected to the state funding of the CAI saying it did not represent value for money. Bruton overruled them.  
There was only one applicant for the 'tender' put out by the CAI last year. The applicant was from a CAI worker called Denzil Lacey.


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## BudgetBrenda (12 Jan 2014)

I think the answer lies in the Sunday Times article in December which told us that the CAI got funding despite the objections of officials. The article pointed out in a very subtle way that Brutons special advisor (being paid more than the salary cap) who overruled the officials who had long dealing with CAI,  has worked for FG for a long time. The chair of CAI Raymond O'Rourke is a former FG candidate. This may of course be a coincidence!

I'm wondering if the Minister knew  that the CAI hadn't spent the money when he awarded funds for 2014.


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## Bronte (13 Jan 2014)

BudgetBrenda said:


> This may of course be a coincidence!.


 
Absolutely !


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## BudgetBrenda (19 Jan 2014)

Another interesting piece in Sunday Times today (front page) - headline 'More CAI fans are Brazilian than Irish.'

The story relates to a a sudden increase in twitter followers for the CAI. 

The CAI had received a grant from Minister Bruton to boost its social media profile. Sadly, the CAI says the leap in foreign twitter followers was due to 'a problem with spamming.'


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## Lightning (19 Jan 2014)

Buying followers cannot be ruled out as the cause.


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## BudgetBrenda (19 Jan 2014)

I heard the CAI had a huge leap in Facebook likes in the recent past.

Perhaps that too was spamming?


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## Lightning (19 Jan 2014)

According to Mark Tighe, The Sunday Times journalist, the top five 5 countries among CAI's 6,614 FB fans, are:
Turkey 1,568, 
Ireland 448, 
Indonesia 441, 
Brazil 419 and 
India 258. 

Looks like fan buying to me. 46k wasted by Bruton on the CAI.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Jan 2014)

The CAI denied that they were fan buying. 

It could be that someone else bought the fans to discredit them. 

This did happen to them before when over 3,000 people masquerading as Ulster Bank customers made complaints to the CAI  about Ulster Bank's IT problems. Apparently they logged these complaints online, as the CAI's phone system wasn't working at the time. 




> The Consumers’ Association of Ireland says it has received thousands of  complaints from Ulster Bank customers, who are very frustrated at the  poor quality of information they are receiving from the bank.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0703/327580-ulster-bank-technology/

Brendan


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## BudgetBrenda (20 Jan 2014)

The Irish Independent covering the twitter story today.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/consumers-body-denies-buying-3000-twitter-fans-29931196.html

My family all bank with the Ulster Bank and none of us contacted the CAI. What could they have done about it anyway, and to be honest none of us suffered even minor inconvenience.

Why is the poor CAI being picked on in this way - twitter, Facebook likes, and the phoney Ulster bank customers? Somebody has it in for them but who?


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## BudgetBrenda (20 Jan 2014)

Interesting podcast - discussion between 2 IT experts and Mark Tighe of Sunday Times about the increase in twitter followers/facebook likes of CAI.

http://technology.ie/audio/technology.ie-2014-01-20.mp3

Mark Tighe said that CAI would have submitted the fake Facebook likes in their reports to the Dept on the increase in their social media profile and that this was serious as the minister had given then another grants for 2014. Now he obviously wasn't saying the CAI faked them but that a decision was made to hand out taxpayers money partly at least on the basis of incorrect information.


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## STEINER (20 Jan 2014)

What exactly is fan buyng? Some sort of email database acquisition?


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Jan 2014)

You pay a company in the Far East or Brazil and they arrange for thousands of fake fans to like you on Facebook or follow you on Twitter. 

The CAI is very popular on Facebook in Turkey - 1,568  compared to 428 in Ireland.  



> Interesting podcast - discussion between 2 IT experts and Mark Tighe of  Sunday Times about the increase in twitter followers/facebook likes of  CAI.
> 
> 
> http://technology.ie/audio/technology.ie-2014-01-20.mp3



That's a great discussion. Makes the CAI look like real idiots. 

Mark Tighe makes it very clear that the CAI could be a victim of intended embarrassment. Damien Mulley was very critical of people buying fans last year, and then someone paid for 30,000 people to follow him just to embarrass him. 

"The CAI are not returning our calls. They  call for transparency from everyone else, but they are not very transparent themselves." 

Brendan


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## Lightning (20 Jan 2014)

Out of the blue, 2 weeks or so ago, the CAI followed me on Twitter. This would have been done by a CAI staff member looking to boost Twitter numbers. 

Around the same time, the CAI followers shot up on Twitter, thanks to fake followers. 

It would seem too much to be a coincidence, most probably deliberate efforts were going on to boost social media stats to report positive numbers to the DoF.


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## BudgetBrenda (26 Jan 2014)

CAI in Sunday Times again today. They have called in the gardai to find out who is hacking into their system and putting up fake 'likes' and twitter followers.

the article does not mention the gardai also being asked to find the 3000 'Ulster Bank' customers who complained to CAI about IT problems at the bank. So it maybe that the CAI has now itself tracked down these criminals....


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## serotoninsid (26 Jan 2014)

BudgetBrenda said:


> CAI in Sunday Times again today. They have called in the gardai to find out who is hacking into their system and putting up fake 'likes' and twitter followers.


Those pesky subversive, malicious hackers.  Not content with taking down sites, compromising online systems and personal data, they've now resorted to facebook 'likes' and following twits. 

Maybe irish water could do them a turn and commission a few hours of public relations consultancy for them!


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Jan 2014)

BudgetBrenda said:


> the article does not mention the gardai also being asked to find the 3000 'Ulster Bank' customers who complained to CAI about IT problems at the bank..


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## Lightning (26 Jan 2014)

BudgetBrenda said:


> CAI in Sunday Times again today. They have called in the gardai to find out who is hacking into their system and putting up fake 'likes' and twitter followers.



"Hacking"? Do the CAI know what they are talking about? You don't hack additional followers, you purchase them. Someone purchased these followers. 

Also, is this really a matter for the Gardai?

The DoF should clearly be able to see that the taxpayers money used by the CAI for social media consumer information has been a failure


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## ajapale (26 Jan 2014)

Is this a matter for the PAC?

What are the renumeration and pension arrangements for the CAI executives?


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Jan 2014)

I don't think it's a matter for the Gardai or for the PAC. 

The amounts are too small. 

The remuneration for Dermot Jewell is not disclosed in the accounts. 

Brendan


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## Time (26 Jan 2014)

The CAI is a secret organisation like the freemasons. The govt has no business giving them public monies to further their ends.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Jan 2014)

Time said:


> The CAI is a secret organisation like the freemasons. .



I don't know if that is a fair comparison. When I went to the AGM last year, none of them would shake hands with me.  Which I thought was odd,because they seem desperate for friends. 

Brendan


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## RainyDay (26 Jan 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> When I went to the AGM last year, none of them would shake hands with me.  Which I thought was odd,because they seem desperate for friends.


Brilliant. It conjures up the picture of Enda Kenny from the intro of Irish Pictorial Weekly flying round town with his big hand sticking out.


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## BudgetBrenda (27 Jan 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I don't know if that is a fair comparison. When I went to the AGM last year, none of them would shake hands with me.  Which I thought was odd,because they seem desperate for friends.
> 
> Brendan



I understand there weren't many there anyway so it wouldn't have taken long for them to have shaken your hand! Wasn't that the AGM that had no quorum with you the only member there?

I agree with you the Facebook likes/twitter followers issue is a waste of gardai time.  But I wonder if they have actually made the complaint to the gardai, or just told the Sunday Times they did - I say this because judging from the 3000 Ulster bank complaints story the CAI can be economical with the truth.


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