# Management Company Suing Me



## Dedalus05 (2 Dec 2009)

Hey,

I am fuming. My Management Company rang me today to tell me I owe $300+ in legal fees because I was late paying management fees the last couple of years. 

The reason I was late was because they hadn't billed me. I did expect them to bill me at some point, and thought it odd they hadn't, but I was not going to chase them for the invoice - I figured they knew what they were doing and the bill would arrive in due course. 

Anyway, even though I have been living in my apartment since it was built, they thought it best to send the bills to my previous address (which they said they got from the builders & sales agent). None of my mail was forwarded from my old address, so the first I heard from them was in October 2008 when they contacted me by phone (ten months after I should have received the first bill) , and I was faced with the bills for 2008 and 2009 in quick succession. 

I had to scramble to pay two years at the same time (approx. $3500), which I agreed to do in cash. It took me a while to raise the cash, but I paid in full in July 2009. A bit later than I would have liked, but as they were ten months behind billing me, I figured I was entitled to at least as much time in getting the funds together.

Now they say, the delay in payment has incurred legal (collection) fees for which I am liable.  And if I want those legal fees waived, I need to put it to the Residents Committee AGM next year, and try have the cost of these fees absorbed by the other tennants.

I am at a loss. The only reason I was late paying the fees is because they were late billing me. 

I really don't think I want to pay these fees, and I don't understand how it could be the responsibility of the other tennants to absorb fees incurred by the late billing mistake of the Management Company.

Very ****ed off. Anyone any advice on how I should proceed?

Dedalus


----------



## purpeller (2 Dec 2009)

Firstly, I presume you were using the dollar sign by mistake and you are actually in Ireland?

It is your responsibility to make sure the management company and their agents have your correct address.  Check your lease to see if it specifies when the management fee has to be paid - if it doesn't say "by X date each year", then you are on firmer ground.  If it does, then you'll have to pay probably.

No other owner occupier is going to vote for absorbing your costs at the AGM.

Try to remain calm when you talk to them - you seem really annoyed and shouting at them won't get you anywhere.


----------



## Dedalus05 (2 Dec 2009)

Thanks Purpeller, 

Your comments have, I hope, let me to the crux of the matter.

The management company had my correct address (i.e. the address on which the fees are incurred).  They chose to send it to the address I lived in before the apartment was built (i.e. where I was living when I signed the lease - which looks bad for my case, I guess).  However, I see no where in the draft lease or the conditions of the sale where it says it is my responsibility to make sure the management company and their agents have my correct address.   If I did, then I guess it is case closed - I will have to accept liability, but I would want to know when.  I, naturally I think, assumed the bill would come to the apartment - and I guess this is the crux of it - exactly when did I agree to make sure they would bill me at the correct adress? 

My lease agreement makes reference to an unspecified amount for 'demise & rent' fees (not sure what these are) being paid on the 1st of January each year.  Of the service charge it just says, 'Yearly in advance. The service charge'.

I will not be asking at the AGM to have the fees absorbed, no matter how strong my case.  As I see it, this charge was as a result of the incompetance of the Management Company, not the residents.

Also, I was perfectly reasonable on the phone, despite the agents attempts to characterize this situation as me giving them the run-around - which to me bordered on defamation.

Dedalus


----------



## markpb (2 Dec 2009)

I know this isn't what you want to hear but given that you waited almost a year for the bill, did it not occur to you to ring them?


----------



## Dedalus05 (2 Dec 2009)

Honestly?  No it didn't.... I had a vague feeling I had paid a year up when I bought the apartment, and wasn't sure when I should expect my first bill.  I am not in the habit of chasing bills to pay.

Also, I didn't miss two bills, I just missed one, with the second following hot on the heals of having received the first, leaving me in the position of the doubly whammy payout.

Incidentally, the agent on the phone today seemed to think I did ring them eventually, and that is how they got my phone number - that I was the one who got in touch initially wondering where my bill was - though I have no recollection of that.

D.


----------



## 10amwalker (2 Dec 2009)

Sorry- you may be fuming... but how do you think the management company feels... sorry if I appear completely unsympathetic to your plight.. Did you purchase an apartment.. if yes.. then you knew service charges would accrue for your apartment.. just because you may not have received an invoice does not obliterate your responsibility as a member of the management company to be a responsible member and pay what you signed up to..

So many management companies are struggling financially because members decide they will withhold payment ... for spurious reasons.. such as I did not receive the invoice.. 

I do apologise but it is December 2009 and our company is struggling to collect a very large percentage of service charges..


----------



## ontour (2 Dec 2009)

As so many apartments are rented, management companies would never assume to send the bills to the unit that is part of the management company.

The crux of the issue is how long it took you to contact them after you got the bill.  Did you write to them and ask for time to get the money together.  Management generally do not pass the debts to their solicitors or debt collectors unless it has been an excessive period of time or there has been no response from the unit owner.

If the management company has incurred these cost, the best thing to to is to follow their advice and appeal it at the AGM.  You have a 50:50 chance that the group will either be anti management company and agree that you should not be charged or they will think that they should not be paying an expense that was only incurred because you paid late.


----------



## shesells (2 Dec 2009)

The bottom line is the management company incurred these fees chasing you for the money you owed. Money you pledged to pay when you signed your lease. I certainly am not happy to pay for the cost of making my neighbours pay what they're meant to pay, while I dutifully pay on time. So I would never vote to waive fees.

So the management company is owed this money. Your actual argument may be that your management agent was negligent in ensuring their records were up to date, but then again the question arises as to whether the onus is on you or the agent. Your lease should clarify whose responsibility this is.


----------



## Dedalus05 (3 Dec 2009)

Thanks everyone, for the feedback.  A couple of comments.

I do agree my responsibility is not 'obliterated' by the error.  I was aware the service was being provided of course, and was and still am happy with how the property is being managed - it is regularly cleaned and maintained.  So I have no problems there.

However, I do not think if I owed money it should be too much to ask that I be billed correctly.  I had no idea who I owed (the specific company was not stated in the lease), nor how much I owed (again, not stated), nor when the monies where due.  What could I have done in that situation?

The fact I was billed eight months after everyone else meant I had two months to pay, instead of the twelve months everyone else got.  It took me a while to raise the cash, but I did pay the first year some seven months later, and the second year at the same time (some 6 months early).

I did contact the company several times letting them know my intentions.  I was assured, given the initial delay, that I could take my time.  So imagine my surprise when they called me yesterday informing me of 300 quid in 'legal fees' - six months after I paid!

Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.  It is helping me put this in perspective, and maybe try be a bit more Zen about the whole thing and just accept that the Management Company are a bunch of incompetent morons.   

As to how I will proceed, I have yet to decide.  I may pay them, but I will be in no hurry.  What I'd like to do is get value for money and make them earn that 300 quid somehow.

D.


----------



## ontour (3 Dec 2009)

Dedalus05 said:


> The fact I was billed eight months after everyone else meant I had two months to pay, instead of the twelve months everyone else got.  It took me a while to raise the cash, but I did pay the first year some seven months later, and the second year at the same time (some 6 months early).



It would be very unusual for a management company to give the members 12 months to pay.  The most that I have ever seen is 6 months between AGM / budget and the date when they start implying penalties.



Dedalus05 said:


> Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.  It is helping me put this in perspective, and maybe try be a bit more Zen about the whole thing and just accept that the Management Company are a bunch of incompetent morons.



As a owner you are a member of the management company so the above is a bit self deprecating !  It is probably worth figuring out who are the directors are of the management company?  Is it still the builders?  Not knowing what is going on with your management company means that a day may come when you want to sell you apartment and as the company has been struck off, you may have to wait for years.  It is best to get involved with your management company but failing that, as a member, you should make sure you know what they are doing.  All about protecting the property that you invest so much of your time paying for.


----------



## jack2009 (3 Dec 2009)

I would not be paying the legal fees, your management company should not have incurred them as they should have made a more sensible effort to contact you before running up costs etc.!  If they had made one phone call to you in a timely manner they would have sorted the issue.

I previously lived in an apartment and the management company was rubbish and eventually sent me a bill for 5 years all together (I was not the only person) even though we had all requested bills several times.  The management company was forced to take a big hit in order to get speedy payment and had to admit that they were rubbish and could not expect people to just hand over 12k straight away!


----------



## shesells (3 Dec 2009)

To be clear here..the management *company* is the legal entity comprising all the owners...of which the OP is a member. The management *agent* is the company retained by the MC to administer the day to day running of the development.

The OP needs to check their lease. Mine says I am responsible for making sure that my contact details are up to date at all times. 

If the OP is not at fault then it is the Management *agent* who has messed up and the management *company* should seek redress from the agent rather than the OP.

Jack2009, the management *company* includes you. Your entire development suffers when holes are left in the budget due to non-payment. You have rights and responsibilities as an owner and as a member of the management company.

To both of you I say you need to start to learn and understand what these rights and responsibilities are.


----------



## jack2009 (4 Dec 2009)

shesells said:


> Jack2009, the management *company* includes you. Your entire development suffers when holes are left in the budget due to non-payment. You have rights and responsibilities as an owner and as a member of the management company.
> 
> To both of you I say you need to start to learn and understand what these rights and responsibilities are.


 
Well aware of rights and responsibilities but my apartment was a bit unusual as all of the apartments were previously ownded by Irish Life and people rented them for years. This changed when Irish life sold the apartments but still stayed in charge of the management company and there were problems from the outset and it was for this reason we were not paying the full management charge especially since the charges had increased 100% from budgets etc.

The development did not suffer and would not be allowed to suffer as it is owned by Irish Life in a well known city centre office block!


----------



## Dedalus05 (5 Dec 2009)

Thanks Sheshells,

I didn't properly understand the definitions, so have to correct myself a little.  I was mistaking the agent for the company.  My lease does mention the Management Company, so my assertion earlier that it didn't is incorrect.

Though it doesn't say (as far as I can see) that it is my responsibility to ensure they have my correct address, nor when the bill should be paid.  So I will do what you advise... I will ask the Management Company at the AGM to seek redress from the Agent, and if they don't ask, or if they don't succeed if they ask, then I will pay the bill myself.

Dedalus


----------



## bertie1 (5 Dec 2009)

To avoid this in the future why don't you set up a monthly direct debit into their account for at least the same as last year so when the bill comes , you will have the bulk of it paid off. ( That is what I do & it makes it easier over the year.) You can complain all you want about not getting the bills but at the end of the day if they take you to court over the mess you will end up paying all the costs and when this issue comes up for discussion after a while you will become known as they guy who won't pay on time with the other owners. They have been trying to carry you while your bills are at the wrong address.


----------

