# What actions should Ireland take next?



## Clamball (30 Dec 2021)

It would appear that we are about 10 days from a massive peak, so where to go next

Vaccination rates are very high, booster rates are very high.  Will focusing on vaccinations allow the government to remove all restrictions?

There seems very little appetite for more restrictions.  Those who listen are sitting at home waiting for the peak to go away, those who don’t listen would ignore new restrictions in any event.

What has worked in other countries that we have not tried here?  I would think we are very stuck, high transmission rates and high vaccination rates.  Should there be more focus on ventilation, social distancing, mask wearing in all public spaces, outdoors in cities?


----------



## odyssey06 (30 Dec 2021)

Stronger focus on ventilation yes but I doubt outdoor mask wearing would help with Omicron except in specific limited settings such as stadiums and concerts. 

Reintroduce public transport capacity limits.

The UK is building temporary \prefab hospitals for non ICU covid cases, there may be some merit in that.

I think we need to consider delaying return of primary schools, until this christmas surge burns through and the system can then deal with the inevitable cases there.

If you are double vaccinated or boosted, and have a professional positive antigen test, perhaps this should be treated 'officially' as a PCR positive to take the load off that system - or maybe PCR test should be 'backlogged' to Germany.


----------



## michaelm (30 Dec 2021)

Will this Christmas surge burn through though, until everyone gets it?  I know of so many people, double and triple vaccinated who now have Covid.  Perhaps, if Omicron is confirmed as mild, we can rename it Coldvid and just keep calm and carry on.  Otherwise, with the huge case numbers and knock on isolation, keeping essential services running will become a real difficulty.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney (30 Dec 2021)

I'm totally befuddled,  but perhaps its time to allow it to " go" and we develop herd immunity? 

I know this might sound strange coming from me, but it might be the solution as we are essentially vaccinated and may have to  deal with it on a different way?


----------



## Protocol (30 Dec 2021)

michaelm said:


> Will this Christmas surge burn through though, until everyone gets it?  I know of so many people, double and triple vaccinated who now have Covid.  Perhaps, if Omicron is confirmed as mild, we can rename it Coldvid and just keep calm and carry on.  Otherwise, with the huge case numbers and knock on isolation, keeping essential services running will become a real difficulty.



It is mild, we know that.


----------



## odyssey06 (30 Dec 2021)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I'm totally befuddled,  but perhaps its time to allow it to " go" and we develop herd immunity?
> 
> I know this might sound strange coming from me, but it might be the solution as we are essentially vaccinated and may have to  deal with it on a different way?


Milder... but it can still put a (smaller) percentage into hospital and ICU. It is way more transmissible and this has a compound effect in transmission than the reduction in severity does not.

The sheer numbers may be too much to handle, so we may need a controlled burn rather than let it rip. I dont know tbh


----------



## Paul O Mahoney (30 Dec 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> Milder... but it can still put a (smaller) percentage into hospital and ICU. It is way more transmissible and this has a compound effect in transmission than the reduction in severity does not.
> 
> The sheer numbers may be too much to handle, so we may need a controlled burn rather than let it rip. I dont know tbh


Dude I agree 100% but we have literally thrown the kitchen sink at this and nothing has really changed. 

The WHO is correct,  we cannot boost ourselves out of this,  of course to solve this would mean a global strategy and that appears to be beyond political capability.


----------



## RichInSpirit (30 Dec 2021)

The taoiseach said last night that everyone has it at the moment.
So give it until the end of January for everyone to get over it or whatever happens. 
Then the country completely back to normal from then on. 
Absolutely no more restrictions. 
Pubs open 24 hours a day. 
Ban the media from talking about Covid after that.
A general election maybe to clear the deck.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney (30 Dec 2021)

RichInSpirit said:


> The taoiseach said last night that everyone has it at the moment.
> So give it until the end of January for everyone to get over it or whatever happens.
> Then the country completely back to normal from then on.
> Absolutely no more restrictions.
> ...


You may want to review your post because its full of inaccuracies.


----------



## odyssey06 (31 Dec 2021)

New rules on PCR tests to try to reduce load on system:

Symptomatic individuals aged 4-39 years should self-isolate immediately and undertake regular antigen tests rather than booking a PCR test. Anyone with an antigen test which detects COVID-19 should seek a confirmatory PCR test. Those with repeated ‘not detected’ antigen tests should continue to self-isolate until 48 hours after their symptoms have resolved.









						Fewer days in isolation and more antigen testing: Department of Health releases new testing regime
					

There are 287 patients on trolleys in hospitals around the country today.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## Clamball (1 Jan 2022)

Denmark apparently recorded 205,000 PCR and 240,000 antigen tests in the past 24 hrs so is more testing the way to go? 

 More automation of close contacts.  I got a text yesterday, the 31st to say I was a close contact.  After a bit of detective work I figured out it was someone I was in the same room as on the 24th, 7 days previously.  If my experience is typical the system is not working well.

Big cities like Paris are saying fully masked outdoors as well as indoors in the city.  The disease spreads faster in cities, is that a better way to go.

Back to the 50% capacity on public transport - sounds like a great idea.  Easy to implement.

More emphasis on ventilation and social distance in work, shops, retail, etc.  I don’t go into retail much but I see very little adherence to social distancing.  The security guards outside limiting numbers seems to be gone.  Germany brought in a rule for supermarkets. Each shopper take a trolley, (even if it was a couple) and unless there was a trolley available you could not enter the supermarket.  Simple effective ideas with simple rules that are clear to understand.  

In terms of ventilation it would appear that the numbers of hospital acquired covid infections are a significant number of the daily figures.  So it would appear that ventilation might be the issue and other mechanical solutions.  Antiviral surfaces, impregnated with antiviral elements like copper.  UV sanitising of bathrooms after each use.  Increase air changes per hour in hospital rooms.  Add CO2 monitors to show stale air, create more single occupancy rooms.  

We spend most of our lives indoors so better design to reduce disease transmission is key.  I moved into a brand new building at work a few months ago and ventilation is an issue. When I put a co2 monitor on my desk and close the door the monitor quickly shows that there is poor air circulation.  Opening the door and windows works well but not every room has windows and some windows don’t open because of air conditioning.   Speaking to the landlord it is all “trickle ventilation”.  Some rooms have air vents allowing the air in but not many.  So mechanical ventilation needs to step up for diseases of the future.  

When there is a lot of cases in the community then the vaccinated will catch it so there is a need to bring down the overall number of cases.  Cases = long covid.  Cases=hospital stays and deaths but in smaller % now.  The impact of long covid are unknown but there are many communicable diseases that bring very long term issues.  If you had chicken pox as a kid you can get shingles as an adult.  

But I think there needs to be more data shared by public health officials.  For example the county case numbers have not been updated in the covid app since Dec 22nd.  It seems odd to think that 22 months  into this pandemic people don’t realise that the virus does not take Christmas holidays. But I would love if public health were quicker to announce more localised outbreaks.  Perhaps not as specific as Australia but even if they said clonmel town is having an outbreak, or Clontarf.  The information on the LEA is too slow to arrive, is out of date and not specific enough for rural areas especially.  

And lift restrictions faster when numbers are declining.

I am no expert, there are loads of experts out there for short, medium and long term solutions.  But the governments job is focus, communication, and even more communication.  And changing quickly as cases rise and fall.


----------



## Leper (1 Jan 2022)

A few days before Christmas we were advised to expect up to 15,000 infections in a day. Each of the past two days has showed 20,000+ infections and an admission from the HSE that these are understated due to failures in the system and people.

If the schools reopen next week I think we are on a dynamic slope to more infections. My belief is we should have a total lock-down (close all businesses except supermarkets and food shops immediately and confine people to their homes for working except for real necessary shopping). I would also recommend not reopening the schools next week.  I think all pubs should be closed with immediate effect; again they promised a safe environment for patrons and again failed). Have our Gardaí become more pro-active and close restaurants which are not complying with restrictions and with immediate effect.

Any person who is working and is unvaccinated (other than for medical reasons) should be suspended with immediate effect. People should be forced to carry an EU Covid passport at all times and show it before being admitted anywhere.

Please don't bombard me with:- Can the country afford this? Hasn't Ireland 's business community suffered enough? We cannot go on like this? etc, etc.


----------



## Purple (13 Jan 2022)

We've had a total of 6000 Covid deaths in Ireland since the first case on the 11th of May 2020. That's 6000 in 20 Months or 300 a month.
On average 41,000 people die in this country each year or 2050 a month. That means that 14% of the people who died had Covid. 
According to the HIQA as of June last year Covid had caused an excess death rate of 13%. 
Since May 2021 our rolling death rate is very low so our excess death rate will be much smaller. It would be interesting to see what the excess death rate is since May.


----------



## odyssey06 (13 Jan 2022)

Purple said:


> We've had a total of 6000 Covid deaths in Ireland since the first case on the 11th of May 2020. That's 6000 in 20 Months or 300 a month.
> On average 41,000 people die in this country each year or 2050 a month. That means that 14% of the people who died had Covid.
> According to the HIQA as of June last year Covid had caused an excess death rate of 13%.
> Since May 2021 our rolling death rate is very low so our excess death rate will be much smaller. It would be interesting to see what the excess death rate is since May.


I wonder if there was an increase in 2020 for this tragic aspect, though the numbers are small, may not show up in wider stats:

_FOUR STILLBIRTHS AND the deaths of two newborns attributed to Covid-19 placentitis occurred in Ireland from October to December 2021, new research has confirmed. During the Delta wave of the pandemic, four stillbirths occurred in women whose pregnancies were beyond 20 weeks.
Two neonatal deaths, when a baby dies in the first 28 days of life, were also reported. None of the mothers in question were vaccinated against Covid-19, according to research undertaken by experts at UCC’s Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology._









						Covid placentitis: Four more stillbirths and two babies' deaths reported in Ireland
					

The deaths occurred from October to December 2021.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------

