# Office Martyrs



## liaconn (3 Jun 2011)

I work with a woman who is always moaning about how busy she is, how she has sooo many hours worked up that she can't take, how going home at 5.30 the odd evening is a 'half day' for her. However, she won't accept any offers of help, gets involved in every flipping area of the organisation, keeps info to herself to prevent other people on the team from playing a full part, goes into unnecessary detail and checking on jobs, and basically just seems to enjoy being the office martyr.

Its not the first time I've worked with someone like this, but has anyone got an explanation for this stupid behaviour? Do people like that think they look important or something? To me they just look like poor teamplayers who don't know how to prioritise.

Yes, I am annoyed and yes I am on a rant.


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## Purple (3 Jun 2011)

Women!


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## callybags (3 Jun 2011)

I couldn't possibly spare the time to respond to that.


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## Firefly (3 Jun 2011)

She's probably disappointed it's a bank holiday....WELL I'M NOT


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## pinkyBear (3 Jun 2011)

I worked with a guy like that, and to me they are empire builders!!!! They like to be in on everything so it appears as though they are critical to the company.  If you look into the work load of these people you very often find that they don't do much other than flap about...
P..


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## liaconn (3 Jun 2011)

Firefly said:


> She's probably disappointed it's a bank holiday....WELL I'M NOT


 
Well she was in a few months ago absolutely dying with a cold and when I asked her why she didn't stay at home for a day or two she said she'd be 'bored'.


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## liaconn (3 Jun 2011)

pinkyBear said:


> I worked with a guy like that, and to me they are empire builders!!!! They like to be in on everything so it appears as though they are critical to the company. If you look into the work load of these people you very often find that they don't do much other than flap about...
> P..


 
I agree. While in fairnesst this woman's output seems good, I think a lot of things would be done in half the time if she let other people get a look in.


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## truthseeker (3 Jun 2011)

She is just a busy body who needs to be involved in everything to fulfill her own sense of self importance.

My own boss is the same, has to interfere in everything, micro manage like mad and generally hold up stuff because he is busy sticking his nose in where it isnt needed. So much time is wasted explaining irrelevant things to him in minute detail with him going off on tangents that are totally unrelated to the actual issue at hand.

Some people just like to be interfering busy bodies.


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## Purple (3 Jun 2011)

anyway, it's a lovely day, isn't it?


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## liaconn (3 Jun 2011)

Well, I'm off home. No doubt while I'm sitting in the garden with my shoes kicked off and a glass of chilled wine in my hand she will be sitting in her gloomy office surrounded by files.


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## micmclo (3 Jun 2011)

Everyone office has one of these

She is probably a mother hen type. She saves everybody's birthday into her calender and demands money to buy cakes

Or getting you to sign a card and give a collection for some person in accounts you've never heard of
But shames you into donating to their honeymoon


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## AgathaC (3 Jun 2011)

micmclo said:


> She is probably a mother hen type. She saves everybody's birthday into her calender and demands money to buy cakes
> 
> Or getting you to sign a card and give a collection for some person in accounts you've never heard of
> But shames you into donating to their honeymoon


Oh yes our office has one too. Similar to the OP's colleague, a martyr to the cause....


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## liaconn (4 Jun 2011)

micmclo said:


> Everyone office has one of these
> 
> She is probably a mother hen type. She saves everybody's birthday into her calender and demands money to buy cakes
> 
> ...


 

They also like to book a Summer holiday every year so that they can cancel it because they're 'too busy' to take a fortnight off. They will then spend that two weeks telling everyone  'I should be on a beach in Spain right now....'  while everyone wishes they were.
They also get to spend the rest of the year talking about how 'I couldn't even go on my holiday I was so busy'.


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## roker (4 Jun 2011)

At least there is less pressure on you. Why worry you get paid at the end of the week. (or do you have a productivity bonus?) The old saying goes "give them enough rope and they will hang themselves"


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## Leper (5 Jun 2011)

Worked with two of these types some years ago.  We were in the same building looking onto the same carpark but from different rooms.

The two guys used be competing with each other to see which of their cars would be the last to leave.  I'd be on my way home before 5.30pm every day.  Often, around 8.30pm I'd be passing the office coming from a match to see the two guys in their respective offices gazing onto the carpark wishing the other would leave.

The three of us were laid off some years ago and on the same terms.  Each of us is still working but in different jobs.  The three of us leave work early every day now. I think they learned from me.


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## boris (5 Jun 2011)

You are right about people like that needing to be in the middle of everything.

I remember designing a database one time and the "Office Martyr" fell out with me because I would not give her a role in running the database when it was my project. Got very annoyed with me over it even though it was absolutely none of their business and outside their remit.

I also remember a lad who use to give up his weekend to work in the office.  Used to pass the office going into town on a Sat & Sunday and his car would be outside - he never got promoted.


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## WaterWater (5 Jun 2011)

I took over an office that was run by one of these. He would come in at 8 a.m. and leave at 8 p.m.  He did everything and never delegated. When I took over, the staff didn't even know how to deal with the incoming days post or where to post the outgoing post in the evening. It wasn't pleasant trying to change these old practices.


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## Latrade (7 Jun 2011)

My experience with the martyrs is that their alleged business is often a cover for actually having little to do or, to get a bit psychoanalytical, a lack of confidence in their abilities against their colleagues (i.e. fabricating other "urgent" work rather than tackle the main work because then it may show that others can do the same work quicker and better).

I've had one who will have an urgent report to do, but rather than face it will tidy her office and re-organise her PC filing and then complain how busy she always is and that she had to come in at the weekend to finish the report. 

Another would spend more time telling me how busy they were than actually doing the work. 

In all cases, I don't feel they've ever had any more or less work than I have.  I genuinely feel, on experience, it's a case of if I pretend or create a situation where I'm overwhelmed, then people won't realise I'm not able for some of the actual work I'm supposed to do.


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## boris (7 Jun 2011)

I was speaking to an ex-colleague of mine who told me of a fellow that spends all his time complaining about those around him that are useless and do nothing in their jobs while he is so so busy.

However the same person had to be constrained by management in their job from making journeys outside the office which were of no added value at all to what they did.

God you could write a book on these guys.


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## liaconn (7 Jun 2011)

Latrade said:


> My experience with the martyrs is that their alleged business is often a cover for actually having little to do or, to get a bit psychoanalytical, a lack of confidence in their abilities against their colleagues (i.e. fabricating other "urgent" work rather than tackle the main work because then it may show that others can do the same work quicker and better).
> 
> I've had one who will have an urgent report to do, but rather than face it will tidy her office and re-organise her PC filing and then complain how busy she always is and that she had to come in at the weekend to finish the report.
> 
> ...


 
I know what you mean. I have seen office martyrs invent really stupid tasks that then seem to take up all their time while an important job sits idly in their intray. However, if the manager dares suggest the job be given to someone else there is absolute denial that they need any assistance.


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## micmclo (7 Jun 2011)

boris said:


> a fellow that spends all his time complaining about those around him that are useless and do nothing in their job while they were so so busy.



Came across a few of these
The hurler on the ditch

"You can do everyone's job except your own " puts them in their place if they call you useless


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## PyritePete (9 Jun 2011)

Liaconn, this is a highly amusing thread - nearly all of us know a martyr in work. But what about these martyrs who also act like this OUT OF WORK...they always have something to do at the weekend also, re-organising other peoples lives, have to go here, have to go there. 

I once had a boss who was a martyr inside and outside of work. Nightmare to work with monday to friday but at least I could say re the weekend " i intend doing nothing but relaxing".


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## Betsy Og (10 Jun 2011)

Its not always all their fault/their motives neednt necessarily be that bad:

Some are too obliging - everyone delegates to them, they need to be more assertive.
They cant delegate - about 10 reasons why they think this, maybe not all bad or unjustified (depending on the facts).
Maybe they're actually understaffed.
Maybe they lack confidence in their own ability but by being "so good" they feel that that of itself gives them some job security (who wouldnt want to keep they guy that'd do anything for you).
Maybe they're too conscientious and people implicitly rely on them to plug the gaps -whereas if they allowed an odd disaster to happen maybe they person with the responsibility would get a wake up.

Not saying I'm Gods answer to management but stuff like the above (what delegation is and how it should work) does get aired within the team I'm part of & I get to talk frankly with my superiors - if you're just a passive observer of bad practice isnt that a) frustrating & b) why arent you getting involved to make it better (& ok it all depends on how receptive everyone is to discussion/change). Basically if you're in management you should be doing something about all of this, not just joining the list of work whingers.


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## liaconn (10 Jun 2011)

I agree there can be reasons why people behave like this.
But I'm talking about the ones who moan on and on about how busy they are but absolutely refuse to relinquish any of their work and go interfering in other people's work as well even though they're soooo busy.
I know in some cases such people are insecure or are making up for a lack in their lives but for others its a self importance thing.
Either way its selfish because by refusing to delegate or by taking on more work than they can manage they are leaving other staff underworked or are causing delays for colleagues by not getting things done on time.


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## AgathaC (10 Jun 2011)

liaconn said:


> I agree there can be reasons why people behave like this.
> But I'm talking about the ones who moan on and on about how busy they are but absolutely refuse to relinquish any of their work and go interfering in other people's work as well even though they're soooo busy.
> I know in some cases such people are insecure or are making up for a lack in their lives but for others its a self importance thing.
> Either way its selfish because by refusing to delegate or by taking on more work than they can manage they are leaving other staff underworked or are causing delays for colleagues by not getting things done on time.


I think the martyr in my office is the twin of your one, Liaconn! In her case, she is a member of senior management, and yes, it is a self importance thing, in my opinion. Thankfully I don't work directly with her, but we all have to hear constantly about how busy she is....she is well known for sending emails really early in the morning, late in the evening and at weekends. Just to prove how busy she is.


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## Lak (11 Jun 2011)

It also extends to Neighbours..We have one who has her nose in everything, even organising en masse the whole schools Communions and Confirmations so that people feel obliged to fall into line with her grand plans.
She makes a huge show of getting her name in the paper for her litter patroling, which is great that she can spare the time seeing as she has a cleaner come in three times a week to clean her own house.


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## Leper (11 Jun 2011)

While I think the "Office Martyr" should be taken out and shot at dawn by a firing-squad made up of the greatest malingerers available, I have difficulty with criticism of people who do good work genuinely e.g ridding our streets of litter and organising fetes etc.

Communions, Confirmations are private family arrangements and should be carried out accordingly.  One can always say "No" to people trying to improve the importance of the situation.  

But, when it comes to good voluntary work these people should be commended.


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## Lak (11 Jun 2011)

Leper said:


> While I think the "Office Martyr" should be taken out and shot at dawn by a firing-squad made up of the greatest malingerers available, I have difficulty with criticism of people who do good work genuinely e.g ridding our streets of litter and organising fetes etc.
> 
> Communions, Confirmations are private family arrangements and should be carried out accordingly. One can always say "No" to people trying to improve the importance of the situation.
> 
> But, when it comes to good voluntary work these people should be commended.


 
I couldnt agree more, but there is good community spirit and pure undiluted busy bodying, there is a clear difference. When I walk the dog I take a bin liner and pick up rubbish, I dont feel the need to manipulate my way into the local newspaper for it.
As it happens a local community event was hijacked today by our local busy body and as one parent succinctly put it today "That one would reach down into your soul to get the gossip".
Comes to something when everyone has to pretend to be speaking on their mobiles as they sit in their cars at the school gates at 3pm rather than face the obligatory tap on the window as she does her rounds of the parents cars


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## RoyRover (12 Jun 2011)

But doesn't everyone in Ireland work no more than 48 hours per week, as enforced by our Government, for our own good? 

48 hours is hardly martyrdom, is it? 

Unless, you are lucky enough to be on the "flexi" in some cosy taxpayer funded public sector job.


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## Deiseblue (12 Jun 2011)

RoyRover said:


> But doesn't everyone in Ireland work no more than 48 hours per week, as enforced by our Government, for our own good?
> 
> 48 hours is hardly martyrdom, is it?
> 
> Unless, you are lucky enough to be on the "flexi" in some cosy taxpayer funded public sector job.



Surely 9.30 to 5.30 is still the norm for most jobs whether public or private sector  with an hour for lunch & 2 quarter hour breaks morning & afternoon ?


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## BOXtheFOX (13 Jun 2011)

I worked with a guy in BOI who had a large family and kept churning out children every year. When his office "pet" announced she was getting married he took her to one side and had a conversation with her about contraception being against the Catholic Church teachings. He didn't drink and at staff socials he was always watching. His nastiness came out in your staff appraisal. He couldn't help but pass a put down comment.


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## liaconn (13 Jun 2011)

RoyRover said:


> But doesn't everyone in Ireland work no more than 48 hours per week, as enforced by our Government, for our own good?
> 
> 48 hours is hardly martyrdom, is it?
> 
> Unless, you are lucky enough to be on the "flexi" in some cosy taxpayer funded public sector job.


 
What has this got to do with the thread? There are plenty of public service bashing threads. Could you possibly post on one of those instead of constantly trying to hijack other conversations with your anti public service comments.


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## Sunny (13 Jun 2011)

liaconn said:


> What has this got to do with the thread? There are plenty of public service bashing threads. Could you possibly post on one of those instead of constantly trying to hijack other conversations with your anti public service comments.


 
Just don't bother replying to them. It's just trolling.


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## Purple (13 Jun 2011)

Deiseblue said:


> Surely 9.30 to 5.30 is still the norm for most jobs whether public or private sector  with an hour for lunch & 2 quarter hour breaks morning & afternoon ?



I don't know anyone (public or private) who starts that late in the day.
BTW, most of the private sector people I know get their coffee breaks piad for and count them aspart of their working week so public sector friends who say they work 36.5 hours a week are actually doing the same as private sector friends that say they work 39 hours.


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## becky (13 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> I don't know anyone (public or private) who starts that late in the day.
> BTW, most of the private sector people I know get their coffee breaks piad for and count them aspart of their working week so public sector friends who say they work 36.5 hours a week are actually doing the same as private sector friends that say they work 39 hours.


 
My official start time is 9.30 am, I have flexi so start anytime from 8.30 to 10am. A lot of people count their lunch break as working time. I know a girl who works for a solicitor from 9.30 to 5.30 and thought she worked a 40 hour week until I told her. 

I use to work with an office martyr years ago, one of my first jobs. I had to cover her holidays and I wised up to that one fairly quick. People who spend too much time telling you how busy they are have too much time on their hands.


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## TarfHead (13 Jun 2011)

My standard day is 9 to 5, but the morning and afternoon coffee break were left behind years ago. Lunch is one hour, but most people return to their work once they've had something to eat. The days of sitting at the desk reading the paper to run down the clock to the full hour are gone the same way as the coffee break.

As for smoking breaks ?


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## liaconn (13 Jun 2011)

So it seems that the standard day is 7 hrs, in both public and private sector.

Office martyrs will usually work a fourteen hour day because they stay late, bring work home, think about work while they're making the dinner and wake up during the night panicing because they think they might have put the wrong address on a letter.


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## thedaras (13 Jun 2011)

Seriously I do not know anyone who works a seven hour day..
It does not make them a martyr doing longer hours ,its just a fact of life..

A lot of people catch up on work after work,these days,ie emails etc..its just a fact of life.
Obviously some cynics would call it martyrdom,but for some its the reality of keeping on top of the huge workload they have,and perhaps keeping their jobs,.(leaving aside those who actually do nothing ,but make like they are working hard)
It must be great to be so sure of not getting sacked that some feel no pressure to do any of that,but this is the way it is for a lot of people.


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## csirl (14 Jun 2011)

TarfHead said:


> My standard day is 9 to 5, but the morning and afternoon coffee break were left behind years ago. Lunch is one hour, but most people return to their work once they've had something to eat. The days of sitting at the desk reading the paper to run down the clock to the full hour are gone the same way as the coffee break.


 
Agree - must be 10+ years since I had a 15min 'coffee break' during the working day.


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## liaconn (14 Jun 2011)

thedaras said:


> Seriously I do not know anyone who works a seven hour day..
> It does not make them a martyr doing longer hours ,its just a fact of life..
> 
> A lot of people catch up on work after work,these days,ie emails etc..its just a fact of life.
> ...


 
Have you read the thread, thedaras?


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## Latrade (14 Jun 2011)

thedaras said:


> Seriously I do not know anyone who works a seven hour day..
> It does not make them a martyr doing longer hours ,its just a fact of life..
> 
> A lot of people catch up on work after work,these days,ie emails etc..its just a fact of life.
> ...


 
These aren't the people being discussed though. In the OP it is an individual who won't hand over any work or accept help. Everyone is working with limited resources and is having to do more work in that period. In effect, I now have to also complete the work of 2.5 people in addition to my normal work based on 3 years ago. 

However, if I've a quieter period or some slack in terms of the current priority project and a colleague is falling behind, I will offer to take work off them and vice versa. There are some, who for whatever reason refuse the assistance and would rather work 14 hour days (or say they do) even though there are ample opportunities to ease the workload.

My job isn't guaranteed, we're all under closer scrutiny, but I'll still refuse to take on work either internally or externally if I'm working on the day's priority. Some clients moan and even tell me to drop work I'm doing for other clients so their job can be done, I tell them that I will, but then only if they're prepared for me to drop their work when a different client asks me to do the same tomorrow.

And so on, blah blah blah. I've still got my job, I still get more done than most, it's all done in a manageable time and I even have the odd moment to post on here. 

If employers still only judge employees by the amount of time they spend in the office rather than their actual output, then no wonder they're fighting to survive. It's like those statistics on some footballers who lack any real talent, contribute little, but because the stats show they ran around on the pitch for 90 mins non-stop and covered 15km, that some how that makes them a good player. Until it's actual productivity that's measured and not how long you're logged into the system, martyrs will exist and business will go bust.


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## thedaras (14 Jun 2011)

liaconn said:


> Have you read the thread, thedaras?



Yep, I have read it,which is why  said "leaving aside those who* make* like they are working hard,but in reality do very little..

I understand that there are those type ,however,those who have to do a lot more than the 9 to 5,can be lumped in with them,and given the title martyr,which is why Im saying that some who do the extra hours ,who have to work at home after work,who need to make the phone calls etc can and are viewed in the same light..

Its a bit like those who work their way up, you get people saying they are "brown nosers"(dont know what the technical term is!) when in fact they may have worked really hard,done the extra time,taken the time to study while working full time..I get it,that you mean the type who are just unproductive..Just adding on to it by mentioning those who do a lot  can be called martyrs for doing so.


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## liaconn (14 Jun 2011)

thedaras said:


> Yep, I have read it,which is why said "leaving aside those who* make* like they are working hard,but in reality do very little..
> 
> I understand that there are those type ,however,those who have to do a lot more than the 9 to 5,can be lumped in with them,and given the title martyr,which is why Im saying that some who do the extra hours ,who have to work at home after work,who need to make the phone calls etc can and are viewed in the same light..
> 
> Its a bit like those who work their way up, you get people saying they are "brown nosers"(dont know what the technical term is!) when in fact they may have worked really hard,done the extra time,taken the time to study while working full time..I get it,that you mean the type who are just unproductive..Just adding on to it by mentioning those who do a lot can be called martyrs for doing so.


 
Fair enough. Definitely some people are 'put upon' as opposed to being martyrs.

In general, like Latrade, I think judging people (or feeling your worth is judged) by how long you spend in the office is a skewed way of thinking. By that logic a more efficient worker is of less value than a less efficent person because they can get through their work and be home in time for dinner instead of struggling and having to stay in the office until 8 o clock or whatever. 

I think workers should be judged on output, effective use of staff and ability to get things done.
Someone who makes a saga out of every little job and takes twice as long as colleagues to achieve the same output or leaves their staff and peers sitting around idle because they want to do everything themselves is not a good member of staff simply because they are last to leave the office every evening.


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## Latrade (14 Jun 2011)

liaconn said:


> Fair enough. Definitely some people are 'put upon' as opposed to being martyrs.


 
I do wonder about the put upon people though too. I take on board the view about job security fears, but it's hugely ineffecient for any company to have all that workload on one person, not just from it not getting done, but from the point of view of what happens if that person leaves? 

As far as the put upon goes too, they have to face up to the workload and get it addressed. A 5 litre container can only hold 5 litres, no more. We can only do so much in a working day. If I'm coming into work and before I sit down my day is already at a metaphorical 4.5, then I've only scope to take on half a litre of additional stuff in that day. 

It makes no business sense whatsoever to have someone in that position. They'll burn out and you'll lose them or work will be missed, lower quality, etc. If the put upon aren't quantifying the volume of work and whether it's practicable for one person to achieve that or not, then I blame them too as well as the employer. We shouldn't be making heroes out of them or judge everyone else by their standards.

Put upon or martyr, all the same to me, just indications of poor corporate/business management.


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## liaconn (4 Jul 2011)

Yaaaayy. Our office martyr has managed to tear herself away from work for a week (for a very worthy cause). Amazing how smoothly everything is working without her. She would be soooo raging... sorry, relieved I meant to say, not raging.


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## Firefly (5 Jul 2011)

liaconn said:


> Yaaaayy. Our office martyr has managed to tear herself away from work for a week (for a very worthy cause). Amazing how smoothly everything is working without her. She would be soooo raging... sorry, relieved I meant to say, not raging.



A great opportunity to move her desk


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## liaconn (5 Jul 2011)

Firefly said:


> A great opportunity to move her desk


 
Listen, if you moved that woman's pencil she would have a hissy fit. She's gone to Fatima and I reckon it's to do Our Lady out of a job.


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## Mpsox (5 Jul 2011)

Firefly said:


> A great opportunity to move her desk


 
Read a great story over the weekend about the manager of a Legoland in the US, he parked his car atwork for a couple of days and came back to find it had been replaced by a LEGO replica.


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## The_Banker (6 Jul 2011)

Our office martyr wears a 3 piece suit on casual Fridays and then looks down his nose at those who dress casually.


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## liaconn (11 Jul 2011)

Our office martyr is back from her break. We have all been making a point of telling her everything went brilliantly (which it did) in her absence.


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## Sunny (11 Jul 2011)

liaconn said:


> Our office martyr is back from her break. We have all been making a point of telling her everything went brilliantly (which it did) in her absence.


 
Problem is she will spend the first week looking for mistakes...


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## liaconn (11 Jul 2011)

Oh, I know. Still, if it keeps her happy....


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