# Landlord withheld part of deposit and lied about the reasons. What are our options or



## inasoup (19 Mar 2013)

We recently vacated the house we were living in. My spouse took 2 days off work to clean the house as our landlord was acting rather strange for sometime (when the shower stopped working,  he sent someone after 5 months to fix it, was very rude if some appliance stopped working . never sent any professional to fix appliances but tried fixing it on their own a number of times before finally replacing them).

we wanted the house to be spic and span at the time of handing over the keys. When we informed the landlord that he can come to take the keys, he came with his spouse and both of them kept on telling the house looks clean, house looks clean. From our past experiences and from other peoples experiences, the deposit was always returned at the time of handing over the keys. And till now we never had anyone cut our deposit and didn't even hear of any of our friends having experienced something like this. When we handed over the keys, they said they need to check the house again to see for any damages and will contact us in a couple of days. We said we will repair/replace anything if they are not satisfied with anything. We didn't hear back from them for two days and contacted them. They said they were not happy with the stains on the bedside chest and the condition of the blinds. we said we would fix it and get new blinds for them.

Then the next day, they called up again and said they don't want to prolong the process and have decided to cut 100 E for the chests and 200E for the blinds. I asked if they were joking as we can fix it if they were not satisfied as replace them for less than 300E. But they were very adamant and said they don't have time and will cut off 300E from the deposit and give us the balance. Then the next day they started complaining about everything under the sun and said they were letting us go lightly. I asked in that case why did they tell the first day house is very clean and took the keys away for 3-4 days . They could have let us know about the things they were dissatisfied with and given us the time to fix things. They didn't even bother to call us or inform till we called them. They said they need proofs that we have paid the gas and electricity bills. We said its on direct debit. They said what if we cancel the DD and they would be struck with the bill. I said we'll give the bank statements to show bill has been paid once it goes through. Then they told they want to talk to the providers and spoke to them and were happy only when the providers informed them the bill is between the tenant and providers and has nothing to do with landlord. We were so disgusted with the cheap behavior of the landlord that we thought its best to end the matter here as we didn't want to see such dishonest people again.

A few days later, we found a key of one of the rooms in our kid's toy box and decided to return it. There were some people painting the house and there was the very familiar bedside chest which was scraped and varnished on the top and kept to dry for which we were charged 100E. The same about the blinds. They just fixed it and charged 200E from us. I didn't want to do anything about it as I didn't want to meet such liars again and have heard that PRTSB takes ages to handle such cases. But somehow I am not able to let this go away from my mind and feel such people need to be exposed. This has left a bad taste in our mouth. And gets worse when we think how hard we worked to clean the house when even our friends were asking why we were doing so? What are our options? Or at least tips to remain calm ..just can't get this off my head


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## Jim2007 (19 Mar 2013)

I'm sorry, but this is difficult to read, please try and break it up in paragraphs...


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## AlbacoreA (19 Mar 2013)

if hes presented you with no letter or photos of damage then he can't simply make something up. Just register a complaint with the PRTB and let them deal with it. You should have taken photos etc.


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## facetious (19 Mar 2013)

Apart from being large blocks of text making it very hard to read, you have failed to say what type of lease you had - fixed term or Part 4, and how long you had been in the property. Lack of this information makes it difficult to answer your post.


> My spouse took 2 days off work to clean the house


That is not the landlord's problem - you are required to leave a property in the same condition as it was at the beginning of the tenancy. If the property had been maintained in a good clean manner during the tenancy it should not have taken so long.


> we wanted the house to be spic and span at the time of handing over the keys.


Often, landlords have a clause in the lease that the property must be cleaned to a professional standard - by a professional cleaning company.


> From our past experiences and from other peoples experiences, the  deposit was always returned at the time of handing over the keys. And  till now we never had anyone cut our deposit and didn't even hear of any  of our friends having experienced something like this.


The law requires the landlord to return the deposit "within a reasonable time" and not necessarily when keys are returned. a reasonable time is usually considered as within 14 days.


> We said we will repair/replace anything if they are not satisfied with anything.


If the lease has expired then you would be too late to return to fix anything - once the lease has expired you have no right to be in the property. Everything should have been repaired before you vacated.


> There were some people painting the house and there was the very  familiar bedside chest which was scraped and varnished on the top and  kept to dry for which we were charged 100E. The same about the blinds.  They just fixed it and charged 200E from us.


Any costs the landlord has in replacing/repairing a property should be vouched expenses - that is the landlord must be able to provide either invoices or receipts for the work done. If they cannot provide them, they cannot justifiably deduct from the deposit.


> There were some people painting the house


Depending on how long you were in the property and the condition of the walls prior to renting to you, the re-painting of the house may also be considered as a charged to you. 

If you feel aggrieved, your only solution is to make a claim with the PRTB for the unjustifiably with-held portion of your deposit. It may take many months for a decision, but you could also claim for damages for with-holding that part and the inconvenience of not having that cash to hand.


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## inasoup (19 Mar 2013)

sorry for the large blocks of text..i tried to give as much detail as possible. 

 Quote
1) If the property had been maintained in a good clean manner during the tenancy it should not have taken so long.
Agreed. Just that my husband was getting the gut feeling that they are going to withhold some amount of the deposit. But never in our wildest dreams we thought 300E. And we didn't want to give them any chance for complain (they did tell the house is very clean when we handed over the keys). And the gut feeling was not because the house was unclean, but because, they had lied to us on previous occasions.  For instance in the rent agreement its mentioned if there is some problem with any appliance, landlord has to be informed. And so we did and not because we couldn't get someone to fix it. And the lady would just say her husband has gone abroad and within an hour he would be outside the house with his toolbox ( some superman). He would do something and make it worse. This would continue a few more times till they replaced it. 

Painting: We were there in the house for more than 3 years. And the walls were spotless (almost). Because if it was not, they would have told us then and there and not waited for us to call them and ask what's happening. It was as if they had made up their minds long before to withhold the deposit and were just looking for excuses.

There was just an rental agreement with minimum period of one year. And one month notice before moving out. We handed over the keys before the one month was up. And first they told they will be giving the keys to fix the chast and blind. But the next day they just changed their minds telling they have to buy new chests as it was beyond repair and would cut off 100E for that (and I saw the same chests with varnish and polish and left to dry when i went there).  So that was a Lie. Same with the blinds. 

And it did cause lot of inconvenience as we had to pay the deposit and rent advance for the new house and within 2 weeks the rent for next month. And we did tell this to the dishonest landlords. And 300E is a big amount for me. 

Can we write to PRTSB about how they didn't send anyone to repair shower for 5 months. Once when the landlord tried to fix the dishwasher, it started to work but would remain open in the top by few 2-3cms. One electrician friend told us it was very dangerous. Can we mention all this?


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## AlbacoreA (19 Mar 2013)

Theres no point of complaining about things that happened in past. You need to deal with those when they happen not months later. If its safety issue you can report that to the local authority.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...intenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

 The PRTB is current complaints. Withholding a deposit etc. The LL can't charge the tenant for normal wear and tear. Like painting after a 3yrs, or the odd bit of wear to furniture.


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## facetious (19 Mar 2013)

> There was just an rental agreement with minimum period of one year. And one month notice before moving out.


I presume you mean that the initial lease contract was for 1 year after which you remained in the property for nearly two more years but did not sign any new lease.

If you have been in occupancy for more than 2 years, by law, you are required to give 56 days written notice. A shorter period than that prescribed by law may not be in any contract or agreed to, except at the time of giving notice (or immediately before) and by mutual agreement between the parties. 

As you had been in the property for nearly 3 years, I would expect a landlord to re-decorate and would be considered as normal wear and tear (unless there were holes in the walls from things like nails on which to hang pictures). Where there are children in a rented property, normal wear and tear is greater than tenants without children. However, this fact should be reflected in the rent paid.

Whenever you have an issue with something for which the landlord is responsible, you are required to inform him in writing (keep a copy). It is also advisable to give the landlord a time-frame within which the problem should be remedied. A reasonable time for anything is considered as 14 days. However, in serious cases (e.g. gas or serious water leak, heating not working in cold weather etc) 4 to 7 days would be reasonable. If it is necessary to order spare parts, a longer period may be required.

If the issues are not remedied within the time-frame (and there is no delay in acquiring spare parts) then the tenant may vacate the property by giving 28 days written notice for landlord's breach of obligations.



> Can we write to PRTSB about how they didn't send anyone to repair shower  for 5 months. Once when the landlord tried to fix the dishwasher, it  started to work but would remain open in the top by few 2-3cms. One  electrician friend told us it was very dangerous. Can we mention all  this?


Firstly, if you go to the PRTB, you will need to have some form of proof that you had advised the landlord of the issues. With any and every issue that you have for which the landlord is responsible, should be advised in writing to the landlord; this would act as proof of the problem for the PRTB as well as safeguarding yourself in case the landlord tries to deduct the cost from your deposit. Also, if you do not inform the landlord, you could be  held liable for any further damage that may occur if a problem is not resolved immediately.


> Can we write to PRTSB about how they didn't send anyone to repair shower  for 5 months. Once when the landlord tried to fix the dishwasher, it  started to work but would remain open in the top by few 2-3cms. One  electrician friend told us it was very dangerous. Can we mention all  this?


The PRTB acts as the court of law for landlord tenant problems and decide, from the evidence provided, if the claimant is due any recompense from the respondent. Landlords, being professionals, should always be able to provide excellent proof (however, many do not and therefore lose) whereas tenants are not professionals and IMHO, the burden of proof required by them is not as exacting although necessary. Proof needs to be more than one party's word against the other's word.

I repeat the last paragraph of my last post:
If you feel aggrieved, your only solution is to make a claim with the  PRTB for the unjustifiably with-held portion of your deposit. It may  take many months for a decision, but you could also claim for damages  for with-holding that part and the inconvenience of not having that cash  to hand.

You may find it convenient to contact Threshold in person for their advice.


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## Bronte (20 Mar 2013)

Personally I don't understand why the landlord who seemed happy with the way it had been cleaned would not return your deposit there and then. It must have looked great if it took 2 days to clean it. 

In any case we are at the situation of you feeling aggrieved that 300 Euro was deducted. 

I do not know how much it costs to varnish a locker. But there is a cost to same. If you take the case to the PRTB the landlord will presumably be asked to provide a receipt for this and also for the blinds and if he doesn't then in all likelyhood your deposit should be returned.

I also think that you should have been given the opportunity to fix the drawers and the blinds and therefore to mitigate the costs to yourself. Not sure how the PRTB would view this. But to me all told you sound like tenants from heaven, and you waited 5 months for a shower repair !


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## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2013)

Exactly. 

I would also suggest inasoup that you make an inventory yourself and photograph a place before you move in and after you move out/clean it. Noting any wear and tear. I also wouldn't let repairs go that long before taking action about them.


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## commonsense (20 Mar 2013)

From Threshold: 



"A security deposit is normally paid by a tenant to a landlord or  agent at the commencement of a tenancy and should be returned once the  tenancy ends. The deposit does not have to be returned to you on the day  that you leave the accommodation but your landlord must return the  deposit in a reasonable timeframe* this is not defined however but sholud  be enough time allowing for inspections, repairs to be carried out etc.*
Only under specific grounds laid out in law may your landlord retain part or all of your deposit. These grounds are:
*Rent Arrears*

If  at the end of your tenancy, there is rent outstanding, your landlord  may legitimately retain part or all of your deposit to cover the  arrears.
*Damage to the property above normal wear and tear*

Deductions  may be made or the deposit retained in full if there has been damage  above normal wear and tear to the property. Normal wear and tear occurs  where deterioration occurs over a period of time due to ordinary and  reasonable use of the premises.
Normally you are not required to  get professional cleaners but before leaving you should clean the  property and take photos to show the condition in which it was returned.
*If  your landlord claims that there has been damage to the property  receipts must be provided to prove the cost incurred in carrying out  repairs.*
*Utility Bills*

If you owe money for utility bills,  such as gas or electricity, and the utility bill is in the landlord's  name, they may withhold part or all of the deposit to cover these costs.
*What to do*



If your landlord is refusing to return your deposit, *you should request the prompt return of the deposit in writing.*
If  your landlord claims there are rent arrears, outstanding utility bills  *or there has been damage to the property, you should request documentary  evidence from your landlord to back up these claims.*
*If  you are not successful in securing the return of your deposit, you may  make a complaint to the Private Residential Tenancies Board. The cost of  making a complaint is €25*
Contact Threshold who may be able to advocate with your landlord on your behalf"


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## inasoup (20 Mar 2013)

Yes it must have cost to varnish a locker. It was only at the top that had some cup stains. It was not broken  Nevertheless I do agree it must have cost to varnish it. And the top was the only portion that was varnished. The rest was clean. Like I mentioned above we really pushed ourselves hard to make the house and all the stuff inside it look clean and they didn't point out anything the first day.( And we did agree to fix anything they were dissatisfied with and they agreed and then suddenly changed their mind telling they would be replacing things and will cut from the deposit. ) My husband had the intuition that they would act cheap.

We had another shower in the house which we were using. But still they didn't fix the one that was faulty for 5 months. 

Tenants from heaven, I don't know but the experience with the landlord was definitely hell. And at the end of all this I am with a sore back (cleaning corners that I had not even seen before , stressed, and feeling cheated.

Other than the replies we got here, I didn't know they are liable to return within 14 days. Because we have always received the full deposit on returning keys on previous occasions. So thank you for providing that info.

Husband of the opinion that what goes around comes around so not to worry that they will get what they deserve but somehow I am not able to digest and let it go away easily. I wouldn't have cared if we had done the normal cleaning, but we got all the sprays, wipes, whatever we could, and cleaned like crazy so feeling bad that we did it for ungrateful people. 

Thank you all for the additional information you provided on my options.


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