# Issue with new car prior to delivery



## Petermack (5 May 2011)

Folks,

A bit of a dilema regarding a new car I am due to collect on Saturday. About 11 weeks ago I placed an order for a new car. I picked the car, with extras and was quoted a delivery date of 11 weeks. I paid a deposit for the car and a price was agreed. I sold my own car privately 2 weeks ago and the new owner picked the car up last night.
I got a call from the dealer today to tell me that my car is ready to be picked up but that the engine varient is wrong. The BHP is 143 instead of the 120 that I ordered. The dealer has given me 2 options, either I pay €1,800 more for the car that they took delivery of or I will have to wait a further 11 weeks for the right car to be delivered. They have also refused to supply a courtesy car for 11 weeks if I choose that option.

I asked about the return of my deposit and they have verbally told me that I will lose my deposit if I cancel the order. What exactly are my options. Am I entitled to my deposit back. I am a bit shocked with the attitude of the dealer and even more so as it is the Sales Director that I am dealing with.


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## mercman (5 May 2011)

This post should be moved to 'Ask about law' section.

Personally I would write the garage a very stern letter advising them that they are in breach of contract and give them 24 hours to return your deposit. Failing that you intend to hand the matter to your solicitor, for which all and any expense will be for their account.


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## motormechanx (5 May 2011)

i work for a main dealer, personally i think you should contact the dealer principal (head office) directly. you want to speak to the head of sales, kick up fuss and youll get the bigger bhp car for the same price, if the car has been special order for what you wanted on it then the dealer wont take it back from the garage.


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## horusd (6 May 2011)

It seems you had a reasonable expectation that your specified car would be delivered and made arrangements to match. The least you could expect is a courtesy car. The dealer  would appear to have an obligation to do this or offer you the higher spec car without add'l costs to you.  My neighbour had the same experience with a Volvo dealer.  They gave her the the higher spec, no quibble and absorbed the loss. Stand your ground and go for what you want.


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## PetrolHead (6 May 2011)

(Mods - maybe move to consumer issues) 

The situation as it stands legally is as the dealer advises. The key to this is the fact that delivery timescales will not be the essence of the contract. Therefore, while they quoted you a delivery date of 11 weeks there won't be anything in the contract limiting them to this. 

You have a number of options (most described above) - 

1 - Push to take the car they have ordered by mistake. If this is a special order they won't want to be stuck with it. Also, dealers tend to make money by hitting sales targets with the manufacturer rather than margins on individual cars. Start from the position that you won't pay any extra but (if you feel you want to) have a maximum figure in mind that you will go to for the higher spec car before turning it down.

2 - Refuse to accept the higher spec, incorrect car (either straight off the bat or after negotiation described above) and have them order the correct BHP car. Unfortunately the dealer is not liable for a courtesy car for the order period as delivery date is not the essence etc etc. It is fairly bad form on the dealer's part but unfortunately there isn't a great deal you can do. 

3 - You could try to get your deposit back (bear in mind this leaves you behind where you were 11 weeks ago). This however, is unlikely to happen. The dealer is in not obliged in law to give you back your deposit and it will effectively count as you changing your mind, probably covered in the contract and resultant in you loosing your money. You could try the tack that, if they haven't placed the order yet for the correct vehicle then they can return your deposit without loss (apart from by their own error) but again, I wouldn't hold out much hope. 

I wouldn't get into threatening solicitors etc as this will instantly put the dealer offside, won't frighten them in the least, prompt them to dig in and leave you in a harder position to work out of. 

Try calling in and speaking to the Dealer Principal presenting the attitude that you want to work this out in an amicable way. 

Good luck.... let us know how you get on!


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## littletiger (6 May 2011)

I had a similar experience to the OP. I am buying a Skoda Superb Greenline (104 euro tax) under the scrappage scheme and the dealer rang to say he could only get a non greenline version (156 tax) and I would be waiting an extra 6 weeks anyway.
I was between a rock and a hard place as the scrappage scheme finishes June 30. 

They did offer me my deposit back which I believe I was entitled to anyway, but when I asked for some sort of compensation (a free service or even a fill of diesel) they had an extremely concise answer, NO.

I will never say another good word about them to anyone.


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## PetrolHead (6 May 2011)

littletiger said:


> They did offer me my deposit back which I believe I was entitled to anyway, but when I asked for some sort of compensation (a free service or even a fill of diesel) they had an extremely concise answer, NO.
> 
> I will never say another good word about them to anyone.




Slightly different situation here. Although once again the delivery timescale is not the essence it could be argued that the Scrappage Scheme deadline has a bearing. Either way they gave you your deposit back. 

However....

Why were you looking for compensation and why are you upset they refused? 

Imagine going into Argos, writing down your selection number, going up to the till, they tell you they are out of stock of that item and you say... "well in that case I want a €10 voucher in compensation". 

How does that work?


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## Petermack (10 May 2011)

Just to give a quick update on this issue. I met with one of the owners of the garage at the weekend. He wont budge and is insisting on €1800 extra. What also transpired is that they decided to go ahead and register the car in my name. I am due to meet with my solicitor tomorrow night to get a legal opinion on the issue.


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## mercman (10 May 2011)

Stand your ground. It is now their mistake and let them suffer the loss of selling a car already registered.


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## Woodie (10 May 2011)

OP this is not acceptable.   You should get what you ordered, I guess you have the order?   Get your money back and walk away.  This garage does not deserve your business.  If this is the start of the relationship wit this garage then it does not look good into the future if something goes wrong.
What make is it?  Surely someoneelse is supplying the same product.


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## PetrolHead (10 May 2011)

Hi Petermack - would be really interested to know what your solicitors legal opinion is. Keep us updated won't you.


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## chrisboy (10 May 2011)

Petermack said:


> Just to give a quick update on this issue. I met with one of the owners of the garage at the weekend. He wont budge and is insisting on €1800 extra. What also transpired is that they decided to go ahead and register the car in my name. I am due to meet with my solicitor tomorrow night to get a legal opinion on the issue.




I think This actually puts you in a stronger position to get the extra bhp car, seeing as its now registered to you, just tell them you'll be happy to wait for the proper specced car! They now have a second one to deal with too!


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## Troy McClure (10 May 2011)

Go to the brand national head office. Explain to their customer service what has happened and that the car has been registered in your name and ask them to contact the dealer. Your position should be put simply
* Give me this car at the price I agreed
* Give me the car I ask for and do something about the 11 weeks wait.

I think the fact that they reg'd the car in your name makes your case stronger and I think they are trying to call your bluff as this is costing them. I would buy a 300Euro banger for the eleven weeks sooner than budge on this. What type of car is it by the way??


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## JoeB (10 May 2011)

They registered it in your name! That's mad. 

You are now liable for speeding tickets etc. You didn't authorise the dealer to register the car, and so I feel they must have broken the law by registering it to you without your consent. Surely the named owner must sign the form, or someone acting on his behalf, with his authority. They wouldn't seem to have your authority and so I feel they have broken a law of some sort.

I can only see some subtle differences bwtweem them registering it to you, without consent, and registering it to me, without consent. The subtle difference is that you have a relationship with them, but not for this car, as evidenced by the fact that they want more money for this car.

I am fairly certain, that Head Office will give you the more expensive car at the original price, especially now that it's registered to you, and that you have legal advice.


Thanks for the heads up  though... if I ever buy a car for delivery, I'm going to try to insist that 'time is of the essence', before I pays my money.


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## Complainer (10 May 2011)

Did you read the T&Cs on the order form that you signed? I remember when I went to read the T&Cs in a garage, the salesman was amazed, and told me I was the first person ever to read the conditions. What did the T&Cs say about delivery dates and refunds of deposit?


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## JoeB (11 May 2011)

There is another very outside chance.

You could apply to a court to have 'your' car returned to you, which has been 'stolen' by the dealer. You are the registered owner after all. 

You haven't signed anything as regards payment, so they can hardly claim the car remains in their ownership until paid for.. they'd need some documentation which doesn't exist.

So at the moment the dealer has a car which is registered to you, and they have no paperwork stating that you've agreed to pay for it. So it's yours, and you want it back.

Very outside chance like I say.


edited to add: They'd probably claim that the car was registered in error, and should be nullified. A judge looking at the facts would probably agree to that.


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## PetrolHead (11 May 2011)

JoeBallantin said:


> They wouldn't seem to have your authority and so I feel they have broken a law of some sort.






JoeBallantin said:


> You could apply to a court to have 'your' car returned to you, which has been 'stolen' by the dealer. You are the registered owner after all.




I have to say (and I mean no offence)... logic seems to have flown the coop.


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## JoeB (11 May 2011)

No offence taken, ... but

That's why I put 'scare quotes' around the words 'your' and 'stolen', as I don't think it's the OPs car.


But surely it's an offence to register a car to a random person who doesn't own it... and the dealer has basically done just that. Unless the dealer hasn't registered the car, .. I think that's quite likely. If he de-rigisters now there'll have been a previous owner, unless there's a facility for cancelling or voiding a previous registration on grounds of an error... but this wasn't an error, it was deliberately done. (if it was actually done)


edited to add: It seems to be the dealer that's acting illogically.


I'm aware that the registered owner need not be the actual owner,.. in cases of hire purchase agreements and the like. This is stated on the form.

But in this case there is no hire purchase or other agreement. People may argue that there is, .. but the dealer is not honouring the original contract, as evidenced by the fact he wants more money for this car. So this is a different car, with no agreement in place for payment, and the OP is the registered owner.

So what's the legal status? Clearly the onus is on the dealer to show the the registered owner isn't correct. As things stand it appears as if the OP owns the car... unless and until the dealer reverses the registration. The dealer may need the signature of the registered owner to do that, .. so unless he intends to forge it, or otherwise act illegally he may require the assistance of the OP to reverse registration. (Of course he will say it was a clerical error etc.. but was it really?)

This is a subtle situation, caused entirely by the dealer.


There's a very small chance that a judge would dismiss the dealers story and say the OP owns the car.. I wonder how small.. probably 0.5% or something. Judges sometimes do strange things.


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## PaddyBloggit (11 May 2011)

Surely the registering of a car prior to handover is standard?

I have bought many a new vehicle with it registered in my name before I handed over final amount owed.


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## mercman (11 May 2011)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Surely the registering of a car prior to handover is standard?



But this is not the car the OP ordered. And another point depending on the type of car it is and the price, the Revenue might start crawling over him if and when a second car is introduced into the equation.


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## Petermack (11 May 2011)

Folks,

Just to give a little more info. The car in question is an Audi A4 Avant. I met with my solicitor and he has taken the sales contract away to read over it. The garage owner was in contact with me to say that they cannot allow any further discount on the car as Revenue will start to ask questions of them for selling a car below cost. He states that registering a car prior to delivery is standard practice. The solicitor will be back in contact tomorrow with an opinion.


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## mercman (11 May 2011)

Petermack said:


> The garage owner was in contact with me to say that they cannot allow any further discount on the car as Revenue will start to ask questions of them for selling a car below cost.



This is the biggest amount of horse manure I have ever heard. Call him tomorrow and tell him to take very long walk off a very short pier.

I have a fair idea of the garage in question and nothing surprises me with these bunch of clowns. If it is the same garage, I stated to them that I would prefer to walk than deal with them ever again. I could write a book on their sharp practice.


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## TreeTiger (11 May 2011)

Petermack said:


> The garage owner was in contact with me to say that they cannot allow any further discount on the car as Revenue will start to ask questions of them for selling a car below cost.


Maybe you could save the poor man some time by contacting Revenue yourself and seeing what they have to say about it?  It would be nice to put his mind at rest and tell them Revenue are ok with it!


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## PaddyBloggit (12 May 2011)

mercman said:


> But this is not the car the OP ordered. And another point depending on the type of car it is and the price, the Revenue might start crawling over him if and when a second car is introduced into the equation.




I was responding to JoeBallatin's comments re. registering a car ... I wasn't specifically referring to the OP's situation.

All new cars have to be registered in the name of the buyer before handover by the garage. I was just questioning Joe's statement about the legality of it.

If, as he says, it's illegal then a lot of garages were/are guilty of doing it.


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## Petermack (16 May 2011)

Just a quick update folks.

Picked up the car on Saturday morning. My solicitor met with the garage owner and with a representative of Audi Ireland on Friday afternoon and brokered an agreement. The deal is that Audi would meet half the cost and the garage the other half. Audi have also agreed to cover the cost of 2 years servicing. My solicitor told me that all it took was a phone call to Audi Ireland and they had a meeting arranged for the next day. All in all a satisfasctory outcome.


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## mercman (16 May 2011)

Congratulations. Well worth your while digging your heels in. Amazing that some retailers out there act in such an idiotic fashion.


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## levelpar (16 May 2011)

> Picked up the car on Saturday morning. My solicitor met with the garage owner and with a representative of Audi Ireland on Friday afternoon and brokered an agreement.



Congrats on your new Audi . Hope you dont have to pay extra    on future servicing with this dealer.


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## fraggle (16 May 2011)

Congrats. I have heard of this happening a number of times. People are stuck so pay the extra.


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## PetrolHead (16 May 2011)

Well done Petermack.... a good result in the end!


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## SemperFi (17 May 2011)

I like the idea of your solicitor brokering for 2 third parties...

How much were your fees?


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## ali (17 May 2011)

Petermack said:


> Just a quick update folks.
> 
> Picked up the car on Saturday morning. My solicitor met with the garage owner and with a representative of Audi Ireland on Friday afternoon and brokered an agreement. The deal is that Audi would meet half the cost and the garage the other half. Audi have also agreed to cover the cost of 2 years servicing. My solicitor told me that all it took was a phone call to Audi Ireland and they had a meeting arranged for the next day. All in all a satisfasctory outcome.


 
On a slightly related topic, my BIL's car (Audi A6) packed in the day after we rolled off the boat in France last summer. He had just had a major service and some repairs in - I think - Foster motor company before we left for the holiday so should not have run into any problems. Between trying to get hold of an Audi garage, arranging to book in for repairs, the language issue, and being stuck with no car, he lost his cool. 

Although he was able to get a hire car under his insurance he still had the car to get home which wouldn't start. He rang Foster motors who got on to Audi Ireland who contacted the nearest French Audi garage and organised them to tow the car 5 hours back to Roscoff; Irish Ferries then towed the car onto the boat and they were met in Rosslare by Audi which towed the car back to Dublin and into Fosters. All costs covered by Audi Ireland.

Credit where it's due.

A.


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