# Extension costs- latest rates?



## Jason C

Hi

We are considering building a 250 sq ft extension to our home in south Dublin. It's single storey and fairly straight forward. In the current climate what could one expect to pay per square foot for a good finish?

JC


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## onq

€100 per square foot.

ONQ.

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     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                 upon                                                                                               as  a          defence    or               support   -         in          and     of                itself    -                        should                      legal                       action              be                       taken.
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## Jason C

Thanks a million


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## Docarch

Not sure whether ONQ had his tounge in his cheek? 

I would suggest, depending on the size and complexity of the extension, and many other factors, expect prices between €100 and €150 per square foot. If it's relatively simple and straightforward I would tend to _budget_ at about €125 per square foot.

Just my tuppence worth. I see some porjects at €100/sq.ft and others up to and in excess of €200/sq.ft. The devil is in the detail.


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## onq

We priced a job for €85 a sq.ft. recently.
We were working with a project manager who controlled the builder.
The price was partly acheived through a detailed buildability exercise based on goods as supplied to the trade.
We worked through the specification from the excavation up to using standards lengths of timber for floors - uncut - to save money.

That price excluded siteworks, which should be minimal on an extension with an existing drainage system.
But it was for a shell only finish, so first fix and second fix was allowed for and some bottom of the line kitchen and sanitaryware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_fix_and_second_fix

In the present case I allowed for €15 a sq.ft. to provide a "good finish".
I also assumed you had a relatively tight set of purse strings when you mentioned a "good finish".
I accept Doc's commente entirely and what one person defines as "good" may be another man's "bargain basement" if you like a lot of "bling".
However a "good finish" can be achieved for any budget thru standard-setting by the Site Architect and attention to detail by the Finishing Foreman - its not dependant on budget per se.

Hope this clarifies the position.



ONQ.

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     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                  upon                                                                                                as  a          defence    or                support   -         in          and     of                 itself    -                        should                      legal                        action              be                       taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to      advise        in                                                                                                      Real      Life      with             rights      to                inspect         and               issue                       reports           on            the                                   matters         at                      hand.


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## onq

I want to point out that the following will tend to increase costs -

- a restricted access
- a restricted site - space to work
- a difficult neighbour lodging an injunction
- a client that changes specification during the work
- a client that changes the overall design during the work

On that latter two points, where changes breed delays and you have a contract, don't just assume you can expect the builder to "hurry it up" and complete.
If there is a building programme and the delay arises from the employer or the employers agent - including the dfesign team - an entitlement arises.
If the entitlement is not allowed the builder may later successfully claim that time is no longer "of the essence" and is now "at large".

Under an RIAI or similar contract, this means that the provision for "Liquidated an Ascertained Damages" no longer applies.
Unliqidated damages can still be sought, but the builder can counter-claim and it gets very messy in court.

In conclusion, standard start up costs weigh more on a smaller budget.
In other words, you get diseconomies of scale with smaller work.
Perhaps €125-150 *is* a better guide, but it all depends.

Going out to tender will better inform you of this.
Appoint an architect to do Tender Drawings.
And be wary of very low Tender Prices.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                   upon                                                                                                 as  a          defence     or                support   -         in          and     of                  itself    -                        should                       legal                        action              be                        taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to       advise        in                                                                                                       Real      Life      with              rights      to                inspect         and                issue                       reports           on            the                                    matters         at                       hand.


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## Jason C

Thanks a lot. Do you know what an architect would normally charge to prepare tender drawings of a project this size? I.e. 250 sq ft, single storey, 3 bed semi?

JC


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## onq

Speaking professionally, I don't do "just drawings". 

I will only take on tender work if I get to inspect and administer a contract, otherwise there is nothing I can do to ensure that the work is built compliantly.

Allow me to explain.

------------------------

Without an architect on site, the client/employer is totally reliant on the goodwill of the builder to do the work correctly.
Sometimes this is wishful thinking and you can be sure in such a case that the person most likely to be blamed for any defects will be the one person not there to defend his position.

"Oh, the drawings were wrong" is the usual comment, but in point of fact even errors are taken account of when you have a builder, an architect, a set of drawings and an error is discovered.
The builder is obliged to bring any errors or omissions he discovers to the attention of the architect in a timely manner. The normal building environment system is intended to work with these checks and balances. Remove an essential component

(i) the architect

and/or

(ii) the contract

and the system collapses.

------------------------

So a competent architect wishing to provide a service on site cannot "just" do the drawings and walk away, because it is foreseeable that this can allow a builder to make a hames of the build.
If this occurs, there is no way the architect should then come back and certify for €100 to "paper over" the defect.

By certification stage the damage is long done, whether at the foundation stage, the integration of superstructure or the services, the re-routing of drainage including bridging over when passing through walls or the concreting-in of trenches near foundations, etc.

So in general defects in the build and poor practices on site are often the result of not employing an architect to conduct limited inspections during the building programme.
To help get the work started correctly frm day one, I always involve a consulting structural engineer to specify the structural interventions and load bearing points because of the serious health and safety risks associated with a structural collapse.

------------------------

I've given up commenting on specific fees online because there are too many people dissing architects.
I'll just note that if an architect charges a fee of around four grand to bring a job from tender to certification and six to eight site visits, just remember that even a well run sole tradership will only "see" two grand out of that amount.

That's on a job that will last a minimum of ten to twelve weeks excluding the lead in design time and time spent dealing with attempts to charge extra by the builder.
Certainly the architect can take on more work, but a small job can be as demanding as a big one, especially during the first month, and there really is no way to avoid that if you want to give a good service.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                    upon                                                                                                  as  a          defence      or                support   -         in          and     of                   itself    -                        should                        legal                        action              be                         taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to        advise        in                                                                                                        Real      Life      with               rights      to                inspect         and                 issue                       reports           on            the                                     matters         at                        hand.


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## Ceepee

We are at the very early stages of discussions with an architect regarding some work at our house.  We have provided our brief and budget, and have asked for an estimate of costs so that we can have a reasonable understanding of what that budget will get us.  Obviously these are 'ball-park' figures at this stage, but we are finding them a bit alarming, as we will obviously only proceed if we can be confident that we are getting a fair price.

One element is for the demolition of an existing square-block single storey extension, and building of a replacement two-storey extension.  This is being estimated at €2,000 per square metre, which my calculator tells me translates as €185 per square foot.

The second element is the replacement of a free-standing garage in our garden by an office space, with the necessary utilities (although it wouldn't be a habitable building as such).  This estimate is for €1,800 per square metre, or €167 per square foot.  This is the build estimate (the demolition of the garage has been detailed separately in the estimate).

While the house is old, it is not listed or protected.

Reading the posts on this thread from May, these figures seem to be well on the high side.  The house element involves the kitchen, bathroom and utility room - per square foot, do these areas tend to rate at a higher price than, say, a bedroom, because of their relative complexity?  Conversely, would an office space tend to be substantially cheaper per square foot?

Thank you for any comments.


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## Superman

Kitchens and Bathrooms are more expensive than Bedrooms.
It also depends strongly on how much design you want done - and the quality of the finish.
Architects aren't really the best people to price stuff - they can only go on previous stuff they've priced, try and guess current prices on that basis and will probably try to overestimate to give themselves wiggle room.

The cost of an extension can be affected by a number of things - is the house occupied at the time, what is access to the site like etc.


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## onq

Ceepee said:


> Reading the posts on this thread from May, these figures seem to be well on the high side.  The house element involves the kitchen, bathroom and utility room - per square foot, do these areas tend to rate at a higher price than, say, a bedroom, because of their relative complexity?  Conversely, would an office space tend to be substantially cheaper per square foot?



Houses aren't costed on a per individual room basis or per room use basis, but its an interest exercise.

Roofs in general are cheaper than walls so "rooms in the roof" cost less.
First floor rooms cost less than ground floor only rooms because the foundations are already in.
Windows tend to cost more than walls so office type spaces with lots of windows on the ground floor could cost more.
Rooms that require lots of service conduits cost more because of the services pipes or cables themselves, the holes required to route them through and the special fittings.

The prices you were quoted sound high, but price depends on a lot of other issues such as restricted access, etc.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                     upon                                                                                                   as  a          defence       or                support   -         in          and     of                    itself    -                        should                         legal                        action              be                          taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to         advise        in                                                                                                         Real      Life       with               rights      to                inspect         and                  issue                       reports           on             the                                     matters         at                         hand.


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## Ceepee

Superman said:


> Kitchens and Bathrooms are more expensive than Bedrooms.
> It also depends strongly on how much design you want done - and the quality of the finish.



No specifications regarding design have been made by us.  We're not 'high-end' people, so what has been quoted is presumably being offered as a reasonable guide. 



Superman said:


> The cost of an extension can be affected by a number of things - is the house occupied at the time, what is access to the site like etc.



We will be vacating the entire property (we've three kids under 5) and access both to the property and the location of the work is ok.  Plus, landscaping is being priced separately, so the build-cost isn't also expected to cover any structural disruption in the garden/site.

ONQ: "The prices you were quoted sound high, but price depends on a lot of other issues such as restricted access, etc."
I acknowledge that - it is useful to get a handle on what the variables might be, so that we're best placed to evaluate why things seem high.  Your comments are helpful in this regard.

Thank you both for your replies.


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## Ceepee

onq said:


> its an interest exercise.



Do you mean it's an interesting exercise, or one that accrues interest?


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## onq

<chuckle>

It accrued my interest! LOL!

ONQ.


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## onq

You're very welcome Ceepee.

BTW, lunatic things like once off bi-folding doors with no masonry returns cost a fortune in and of themselves.
The preparation and strengthening work needed for work like this can artificially bump up the cost per square metre.

Also the problems with older properties centre on the state of their friable masonry, which basically means its not too robust.
The vibrations of new foundation work have to be minimized as far as practicable and knocking holes out of existing walls have to be done carefully.

This may mean using augured piles and excavation and demolition by hand in extreme cases, plus knowing what materials to use for mortar and matching masonry bond, etc.
Plus very similar concerns will arise for neighbouring properties, even where they are wholly detached from yours, with increasing problems the more attached they are - semi -> terraced.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                      upon                                                                                                    as  a           defence       or                support   -         in          and      of                    itself    -                        should                          legal                        action              be                           taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to          advise        in                                                                                                          Real      Life        with               rights      to                inspect         and                   issue                       reports           on              the                                     matters         at                          hand.


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## Nationaldude

Hi all,We have a 2 bed detatch house in north co.dublin and are looking to build a 2 storey extension to comprise of a dining room and a third bedroom, it's a straight forward build no kitchens or bathrooms. Does the €100-125 per sq ft apply to 2 storey builds or would the cost be higher? Access is no problem and the garden is huge so no problems with space either, we plan to go 12ft x 9ft on both floors.Thanks,ND


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## Nationaldude

Quick update:I emailed that builder recommended by teneguia for a ball park figure for the extension we have in mind, 12ft x 9ft over two floors  (216 sq ft?, am i correct?) and the figure he quoted was €30k ball park for a timber framed construction, the price would include all drawings and structural certs etc. I work that out at approx. €140 per sq ft. Feel free to correct my calculations if they are incorrect.


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## onq

Its good to get real-world updates with people seeking actual figures.

I'm concerned when I read savings achieved  by self-builders because in my experience a lot of the "bits and pieces " get left out of the build to be done over the following months or years and these all add up.
The issue is not that self-builders are trying to mislead when they quote their amazing figures, its just that its very hard to undertake a proper comparison of the figures if they're not 'like with like'.
Recently I've discovered that some self-builders may be operating less stringent insurance requirements for direct labour operatives and this is a source of concern on several levels.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                       upon                                                                                                     as  a            defence       or                support   -         in          and       of                    itself    -                        should                           legal                        action              be                            taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to           advise        in                                                                                                           Real      Life         with               rights      to                inspect         and                    issue                       reports           on               the                                     matters         at                           hand.


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## monagt

I have an extension (2001) 400 sq ft (33 x 12w) at side of house with a low pitch tiled roof, ridge running back to front
If I wanted to go up I have two options, 
(1) go 2 storey, using existing timber (not trusses) and tiles but then I have engineers digging down to foundations, etc and seems expensive OR
(2) go up a block or two and then do a dormer type roof so less space at either end due to slopes but lighter construction, again using existing material to cut costs.

Any ideas on different options cost, even per sq ft ball park, surely less than 100?
No problems with access, in suburbs.

Any help much appreciated.


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## lowCO2design

monagt said:


> Any ideas on different options cost, even per sq ft ball park, surely less than 100?


1000 to 2000 per m2


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## monagt

> 1000 to 2000 per m2


option1 to option 2
1000/M2 to raise roof using existing timber/tiles where possible and no get full floor space due to roof coming down?


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## lowCO2design

planning, demolition, removal, beam for new ope, door , skirting, strengthening joists, flooring, electrics, blocks, plastering, roof timbers, plasterboard, vapour barrier, insulation, felt & battens, scaffolding, preliminaries, insurance


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## monagt

> planning, demolition, removal, beam for new ope, door , skirting, strengthening joists, flooring, electrics, blocks, plastering, roof timbers, plasterboard, vapour barrier, insulation, felt & battens, scaffolding, preliminaries, insurance


I was thinking, pop of the roof, add 2 rows blocks and do a Mansard style roof to get the extra space, maybe getting 250+ extra out of the 400. A bit simplistic, I know. 

Thx for the response lowCO2, much appreciated.


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