# The Coronavirus



## Brendan Burgess

We are making an exception to the ban on discussing health issues on askaboutmoney as this is something a lot of people are concerned about.

Please keep the discussion serious, factual and on topic.   Off topic and humorous posts will be deleted.

Here are some official resources on the topic:


https://www.gov.ie/en/news/e58285-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/

The implications for people travelling overseas are discussed in this thread: 






						Holidays booked to countries now affected with coronavirus.
					

Just thought I would start this thread. I among many ,i am sure, have holidays booked to countries now affected with the coronavirus , like in my case Italy. I know there will be no problem with accomadation that has free cancellation but what about the flights. If this virus spreads within...



					www.askaboutmoney.com


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## odyssey06

An Irishman who returned home from South Korea recently said that he was unable to contact the HSE over the coronavirus when a colleague had the virus.








						Irishman home from Korea couldn't make contact with HSE over coronavirus last weekend
					

An Irishman who returned home from Korea recently said that he was unable to contact the HSE over the coronavirus when a colleague had the virus. Eoin O'Colgain, who works with the Asia Pacific Centre for Theoretical Physics, recently found out that a colleague had contracted the coronavirus. He...




					extra.ie
				




Then when eventually got to speak with someone on Monday was told to go about his business *if he had no symptoms*.

The NHS are telling people who have been to the affected areas in northern Italy to self-isolate *even if they have no symptoms*.

No update along those lines from the HSE despite the recent outbreak in northern Italy. They still just reference mainland China.


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## mtk

I wonder will  church will move to discourage shaking hands as a sign of peace at mass ?
They certainly did for SARS I recall (and on other occasions I think).


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## odyssey06

In Northern Ireland, children being sent home from school who were skiing in northern Italy following updated advice from UK government:








						Children and teachers sent home from NI schools in Coronavirus precaution
					

Schools take measures as matter of precaution




					www.belfastlive.co.uk
				




In the Republic of Ireland... we still haven't called off the rugby match.


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## michaelm

mtk said:


> I wonder will church will move to discourage shaking hands as a sign of peace at mass ?


That has been the case for many weeks now.  More flu related than Coronavirus.


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## Monbretia

It's still in operation here up to a few weeks ago anyway, I only go to mass for funerals but shaking hands was done at the recent ones I was at.


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## Leo

odyssey06 said:


> An Irishman who returned home from South Korea recently said that he was unable to contact the HSE over the coronavirus when a colleague had the virus.



Outrageous!! HSE phone line isn't staffed 24x7!! There was no one available to speak to on Sunday night but he got no problem when he tried on Monday morning when they assessed him as low risk.


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## noproblem

Some people getting carried away with what needs to be done. We have no breakout of the virus and everyone has a responsibility to take precautions for themselves and their families and not be held by the hand every step of the way by the state.


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## elcato

I honestly thought that article about yourman on coming back from Korea was an Eamon and Bridget skit. Especially this .....

_‘Some of them have symptoms,’ he said, ‘There’s at least one researcher who has a cough and one has a fever, so they’re being tested’.
‘In principle, I could be coming back to the HSE with an updated situation to try to convince them that I’m worth testing.
When asked by Claire house his own condition he said: ‘I feel fine. No symptoms.’_


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## mtk

michaelm said:


> That has been the case for many weeks now.  More flu related than Coronavirus.


Not in my church ....still doing hand shakes on Sunday


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## odyssey06

noproblem said:


> Some people getting carried away with what needs to be done. We have no breakout of the virus and everyone has a responsibility to take precautions for themselves and their families and not be held by the hand every step of the way by the state.



If you only take the measures after the breakout of the virus it's already too late. This is obvious.

I wouldn't categorise the measures taken by other major governments in relation to this as "looking to be held by the hand by the state", I don't know where you got that from.

Every one should look after themselves as much as they can but when it comes to a dangerous infectious disease the state has a role to play which only they can play when it comes to medical efforts, testing, travel restrictions etc
And the steps taken by this state are noticeably lax compared to our EU neighbours, on every level.


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## Susie2017

Agree with odyssey. They are still not checking travellers returning from Thailand, Malaysia etc. Iran looks to be in serious trouble. There are loads of families just back from skiing and mid term holidays in North Italy. Plane loads of them all going about their business, in school etc. Are public health interested in tracing any of them ? I have no knowledge of any designated quarantine facility like the ones in the UK. We should have a specialist centres allocated to deal with these cases with ambulance bypass protocol, there are two specialist hospitals in Uk I believe. Instead the HSE want everyone to go to their GP or local ED. A bad idea, given overcrowding, lack of isolation facilities etc.The number of doctors, hospital staff who have died from this in China is alarming considering they were well equipped and wearing PPE etc. It's very worrying.


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## demoivre

odyssey06 said:


> In the Republic of Ireland... we still haven't called off the rugby match.



If the match doesn't go ahead there's nothing , at the moment, to stop those Italians with flights and accommodation already booked coming over here for the weekend.


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## demoivre

Susie2017 said:


> The number of doctors, hospital staff who have died from this in China is alarming considering they were well equipped and wearing PPE etc. It's very worrying.



The death rate in China from Coronavirus is still minuscule though,  so far 2715 deaths out of a population of 1,386,000,000 people !


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## Saavy99

Virus surge concerning, but not a pandemic - WHO
					

The sudden rise in cases of coronavirus in Italy, Iran and South Korea is "deeply concerning", but the virus can still be contained and does not amount to a pandemic, the World Health Organization chief has said.




					www.rte.ie
				




Personally I think the WHO were very slow in acting prior until today.


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## odyssey06

demoivre said:


> If the match doesn't go ahead there's nothing , at the moment, to stop those Italians with flights and accommodation already booked coming over here for the weekend.



Fair point. Yikes.


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## odyssey06

demoivre said:


> The death rate in China from Coronavirus is still minuscule though,  so far 2715 deaths out of a population of 1,386,000,000 people !



It's the scale of the breakout in Wuhan that has everyone spooked. Its more like 2000 out of 6 million and even then it looks like many pneumonia deaths werent officially classified as coronavirus deaths. I think we havent heard the half of it... or some fraction.


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## odyssey06

Hooverfish said:


> Just another view. I'm actually still more worried about the case of rubella reported in Apple's Hollyhill campus today. See de paper. Transmission rate for rubella is 10-30% as opposed to 2-3% for Covid-19.



IT doesnt have to be an either or... And which one to be more concerned about may depend on whether you are in at risk group for either disease.


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## Sunny

I work for a multinational company where there are daily meetings about the threat, hand sanitisers given out to each employee, professional clean of office and IT equipment once a month, travel ban from Ireland and to Ireland. Supply of pandemic kits ordered. Anyone been in Italy or any of the badly hit Countries for the past week have been told to work from home for two weeks. My wife works for an Irish airline. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. One person got in trouble for wearing gloves while boarding and handling boarding cards etc. Aircraft are not being properly cleaned. There have zero checks in Dublin Airport. There was more concern over foot and mouth from the authorities than there is over this virus.


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## noproblem

Just had a quick look at the HSE website and in particular their advice page for people coming back from any of the infected areas. Spotted the data below at the end of their page. Says it all really.

Page Last Reviewed: 13/02/2020
Next Review Due: 13/02/2023


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## michaelm

demoivre said:


> If the match doesn't go ahead there's nothing , at the moment, to stop those Italians with flights and accommodation already booked coming over here for the weekend.


The Government response seems a bit made up as they go along (although maybe what else can they do).  But if the Rugby should be cancelled then cancel it, don't just invite the IRFU to cancel it.  I guess they are more worried about compensation claims than the Coronavirus.  Offer future flight vouchers or some such to those who were due to travel from Italy for the match.


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## noproblem

michaelm said:


> The Government response seems a bit made up as they go along (although maybe what else can they do).  But if the Rugby should be cancelled then cancel it, don't just invite the IRFU to cancel it.  I guess they are more worried about compensation claims than the Coronavirus.  Offer future flight vouchers or some such to those who were due to travel from Italy for the match.



Of course they're worried about how they word something like this and yes, people wouldn't be long in looking for lolly, neither would hotels, b/b's, hotels, airlines, etc, etc, etc. They advised the appropriate organisation on what they SHOULD do. What do you you want them to do? Close down the country?


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## Sunny

But if they are going to cancel the rugby on the 7th March, I presume Patricks Day on the 7th March is also cancelled. I also presume Ministers will not be travelling as most companies are now enforcing travel bans or essential travel only. If we are cancelling the rugby to stop Italians travelling, I presume the DOFA is not advising people not to travel to Italy or checking people travelling from Italy at our Ports. I was on a train this morning with a load of Italian students. Why are they allowed come but rugby supporters can't? The whole thing smacked of an organisation and politicians trying to convince people, they were in control.


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## Saavy99

noproblem said:


> . What do you you want them to do? Close down the country?



The Chinese have closed down cities with hundreds of millions of people.


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## michaelm

noproblem said:


> They advised the appropriate organisation on what they SHOULD do. What do you you want them to do? Close down the country?


One has to ask who has a better handle on the situation, the IRFU or the National Public Health Emergency Team.  If it's the latter and they say the match should be cancelled then they should insist on same rather than invite the IRFU, who have a vested interest, to decide.


Sunny said:


> But if they are going to cancel the rugby on the 7th March, I presume Patricks Day on the 17th March is also cancelled. I also presume . .


That they can't do everything is not a reason to do nothing.  But woolly non-decisions and hand-wringing is no good to anyone.  I'm not overly confident in the politicians involved either.


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## Saavy99

Sunny said:


> Aircraft are not being properly cleaned.




Very valid point. 
I was appalled at the messy state of a ryanair plane I flew to Spain with few weeks ago.


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## noproblem

michaelm said:


> One has to ask who has a better handle on the situation, the IRFU or the National Public Health Emergency Team.  If it's the latter and they say the match should be cancelled then they should insist on same rather than invite the IRFU, who have a vested interest, to decide.
> 
> That they can't do everything is not a reason to do nothing.  But woolly non-decisions and hand-wringing is no good to anyone.  I'm not overly confident in the politicians involved either.



Thankfully you didn't run for election so didn't have to make decisions for the rest of the country. Simply a matter of not getting carried away with all the hysteria at the moment.


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## Leo

Sunny said:


> I was on a train this morning with a load of Italian students. Why are they allowed come but rugby supporters can't?



As usually happens when events like this are cancelled, the vast majority of those rugby supporters will travel to Ireland that weekend. Why wouldn't they?


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## Leo

noproblem said:


> They advised the appropriate organisation on what they SHOULD do. What do you you want them to do? Close down the country?



Exactly, this isn't a dictatorship yet thankfully. If the government try to take disproportionate measures, we'll all end up paying for it.


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## Sunny

Leo said:


> As usually happens when events like this are cancelled, the vast majority of those rugby supporters will travel to Ireland that weekend. Why wouldn't they?



But that's the point. Why cancel the match unless you are putting in a travel ban. Are you more at risk going to Aviva stadium than 20 Italian supporters deciding to come over and do a pub crawl in Temple bar that weekend. Calling off the match makes no sense.


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## odyssey06

Sunny said:


> But that's the point. Why cancel the match unless you are putting in a travel ban. Are you more at risk going to Aviva stadium than 20 Italian supporters deciding to come over and do a pub crawl in Temple bar that weekend. Calling off the match makes no sense.



It makes no sense as an isolated measure.


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## michaelm

noproblem said:


> Thankfully you didn't run for election so didn't have to make decisions for the rest of the country.


Thankfully.


noproblem said:


> Simply a matter of not getting carried away with all the hysteria at the moment.


Indeed.  Maybe if the IRFU issue a statement that "sure it'll be grand" it will put my mind at ease.


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## Leo

Sunny said:


> Why cancel the match unless you are putting in a travel ban.



Because people are demanding the government do something, asking for the match to be cancelled is a grand gesture that let's them tick that box. There is currently no justification for a comprehensive travel ban. Since the first confirmed case in Italy, around 50,000 people have taken direct scheduled flights from Italy to Ireland, many more taking indirect routes and holiday charters (busy time for skiing tours). But we're worried about the 5,000 or so expected to travel for the match for some reason...


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## ashambles

If you infect 5 random people on a flight of 200 that's a bad problem, if you infect 5 random people out of 50,000 that's a terrible problem. In terms of containment it is 250 times worse. 

In the first instance the health authorities have some chance of back tracking over contacts and containing the spread, in the second even if you know it's due to the match you've much less chance of containing the subsequent spread. 

A pointless match against Italy (they exist in the competition solely to create 3 matches a weekend) versus still unlikely but possible community spread of  this virus. It's not really a choice - cancel the match.


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## Sunny

ashambles said:


> If you infect 5 random people on a flight of 200 that's a bad problem, if you infect 5 random people out of 50,000 that's a terrible problem. In terms of containment it is 250 times worse.
> 
> In the first instance the health authorities have some chance of back tracking over contacts and containing the spread, in the second even if you know it's due to the match you've much less chance of containing the subsequent spread.
> 
> A pointless match against Italy (they exist in the competition solely to create 3 matches a weekend) versus still unlikely but possible community spread of  this virus. It's not really a choice - cancel the match.



50,000 people don't all get into one big cuddle at a match. One Italian tourist with coronavirus in a crowded pub with 700 people is as dangerous as one Italian supporter with coronavirus sitting in the Aviva Stadium watching a match. There is no logic to what they are saying. Ross saying the match needs to be cancelled but we will look at St Patricks Day nearer the time. It is 10 days later. If their logic is 'we can't be encouraging people to travel' as Simon Harris is saying, then there is no reason why they shouldn't cancel St Patricks Day celebrations right now as well. The decision just smacks of people desperate to make a statement of intent to show they are taking it seriously.


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## michaelm

The expert group membership listed here looks serious enough. I'd imagine they'll call it as they see it.


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## Leo

Sunny said:


> The decision just smacks of people desperate to make a statement of intent to show they are taking it seriously.



Exactly, it's a nonsense move to placate scaremongers. Has anyone calling for the rugby to be cancelled started quarantining themselves and their families yet? That includes going to the shops you know, far more people pass through your average supermarket that the Aviva! Then add in those in the supply chain visiting multiple supermarkets and you have a cross-contamination potential in the millions!


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## noproblem

Hope the pubs don't refuse to serve the Italian tourist travellers/fans when they come and be then brought up before a judge for not serving them.


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## michaelm

Leo said:


> Exactly, it's a nonsense move to placate scaremongers.


Any possibility it's the genuine considered opinion of the National Public Health Emergency Team?


Leo said:


> Has anyone calling for the rugby to be cancelled started quarantining themselves and their families yet?


It's the National Public Health Emergency Team calling for the rugby to be cancelled.  I guess (hope) they have more pertinent information than the general public.  The current European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control advice on what constitutes close contact is interesting. Reading it I'd expect more chance of contagion in the Aviva than in Aldi.


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## odyssey06

michaelm said:


> Reading it I'd expect more chance of contagion in the Aviva than in Aldi.



Maybe, but not more than in a busy Temple Bar pub on as aturday night or in the crowds watching St Patricks Day parades.


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## Saavy99

Ireland v Italy games called off due to virus concerns
					

The Irish Rugby Football Union has confirmed that the Ireland vs Italy Six Nations matches scheduled between 6 and 8 March will not proceed as scheduled, given the need to protect public health in relation to the coronavirus.




					www.rte.ie
				




Match cancelled.


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## Leo

michaelm said:


> Reading it I'd expect more chance of contagion in the Aviva than in Aldi.



All those products on sale in Aldi were touched by multiple people before they make it into your basket, which was also touched by many, many people...


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## noproblem

I'm not trying to be dismissive or indeed light hearted about the concern re coronavirus, but calling off a match and at the same time allowing all the fans to travel over here anyway is simply astonishing. Talk about pandering to the masses, but anyway, it's done now. Crossed my mind when it was announced that the sooner we have a few cases of the virus the better, at least it will then be seen what exactly all those appointed health experts we're being told about have planned for every one of us after all those planning meetings they've had. I've no doubt it'll be ground breaking in it's outcome.


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## Susie2017

Are the affected red zones in Italy not under lockdown so there will be no fans coming from affected areas. Schools, universities, businesses etc closed in those areas with exception of pharmacies, health facilities and some shops.


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## Thirsty

So up to now, I've been taking some comfort from the stats that around 1-2% of those infected have died; until it was noted on CNN that that was a similar rate to the so-called 'Spanish Flu' of 1918 which killed more people world wide than died in WW1.


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## noproblem

Thirsty said:


> So up to now, I've been taking some comfort from the stats that around 1-2% of those infected have died; until it was noted on CNN that that was a similar rate to the so-called 'Spanish Flu' of 1918 which killed more people world wide than died in WW1.




Holy mother of Gd, that's it, i'm off, vitamin D calls and I will report from further afield in a few days. Hope you're all alive when I get back and have the shakings of a Govt in place. I certainly don't want to come home to a scene of all the community centres in the country turned into isolation units with a lot of the friendly and startled posters on here contained within. Now, if that happens i'll be back on that plane quicker than Simple Simon gave the Irish rugby team a reprieve from the invading Italians and stopped the rot on the green playing fields of Ballsbridge.  Oh yes, the good times are coming and no flu or Chinese virus will stop the Irish. Like the Berlin wall this Chinese one will fall.  Tiocfaidh ár lá .


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## Daddy Ireland

I for one don't believe numbers out of China and I am sure many others don't either. You dont close down cities as big as Wuhan for 2,500 deaths.
Following  Coronavirus Twitter. Its opened my eyes.


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## Daddy Ireland

More than 100,000 coronavirus infections around world, as UK sees second death and dramatic rise in cases
					

Number of patients in Britain jumps to more than 160




					www.google.com


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## bleary

Just back from Italy. Not the affected areas. I had temp checked on arrival to Italy. Any fever signs would have meant a hospital visit.
On return from Italy walked past a desk in Dublin airport with a hse sign. 2 people who didn't even look up from their conversation while the entire Italian flight walked past. Not sure what the point was.


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## DeeKie

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/...ictions-are-not-stopping-coronavirus-covid-19 is interesting.
Cousin in Singapore says they are being advised there to get the flu jab to reduce likelihood of getting a respiratory illness and putting strain on the system. Also self-isolation if you have been to an impacted area. I feel that we should be advising both here.


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## Ceist Beag

bleary said:


> Just back from Italy. Not the affected areas. I had temp checked on arrival to Italy. Any fever signs would have meant a hospital visit.
> On return from Italy walked past a desk in Dublin airport with a hse sign. 2 people who didn't even look up from their conversation while the entire Italian flight walked past. Not sure what the point was.


If you think about it, what is the point of the temp check in Italy either? If one passenger fails the check is only that one person put into quarantine? Shouldn't all passengers from the plane be put into quarantine really as they have all just spend a few hours next to this one person and may well have picked up the virus. I'm not saying Dublin airport were right in their approach, all I'm saying is there is no easy solution to this and to me the temp check in Italy is more for show than anything else.


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## odyssey06

Sunny said:


> You offer people a vaccine against the cornavirus today like the flu jab and I bet all the people sticking up food supplies and calling for borders to be closed still wouldn't get it.



You'd be mad to take a coronavirus vaccine if one came out today or even in next few months. No way it could've been properly tested for side effects.
The swine flu vaccine was a rush job and the narcolepsy side effects are dreadful for those affected.


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## Leo

Ceist Beag said:


> If you think about it, what is the point of the temp check in Italy either?



It just gives a warm fuzzy feeling to the masses that the authorities are doing something and it's all under control. Of course with an incubation period now believed to be up to 27 days, assessing people as safe simply based on a point in time temperature reading is as pointless as using tarot cards to make a diagnosis.


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## Nutso

Daddy Ireland said:


> I for one don't believe numbers out of China and I am sure many others don't either. You dont close down cities as big as Wuhan for 2,500 deaths.
> Following  Coronavirus Twitter. Its opened my eyes.



I think we need to be mindful that not everything posted on Twitter and other media and social media pages is correct.  I'm as guilty as anyone for following them and it is a concern for me, not necessarily the sickness (although of course I'm worried for older members of my family), but the bigger picture and the whole global repercussions. I watched a press conference yesterday from the Doctor that led the WHO investigation in China.  He was very impressed with the way the Chinese have dealt with this and how their lockdowns have reduced the spread.  His worry is that other countries won't be able to put the same measures in place.  It was an interesting watch.  If anyone would like to have a look at it you can see it here:









						Coronavirus outbreak: WHO expert says countries must shift mindset to virus preparedness | FULL
					

Countries around the world need to shift their mindset to preparing for an outbreak of the novel coronavirus and be ready to respond rapidly when it arrives,...




					www.youtube.com


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## michaelm

Leo said:


> All those products on sale in Aldi were touched by multiple people before they make it into your basket, which was also touched by many, many people...


Perhaps.  But the virus is predominately spread person to person, not from surfaces.  A do nothing unless you do everything attitude will, well, do nothing to mitigate or slow the spread of the virus.

Spanish flu affected one third of the world population at the time and killed 50+ million.  Having a long incubation and being seemingly quite contagious this virus could affect a large percentage of the world population.  Even with a low fatality rate it may kill an awful lot of people (particularly older people).  If it gets out of hand it could stretch food production/distribution to breaking point and will break already creaking health systems.

While we shouldn't be overly anxious about it I don't think we should be blasé or defeatist about it either.


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## WaterWater

If you saw someone coughing in to the air and over foodstuffs in the supermarket would you ask that person to cover their mouth?

I was in SuperValu in Blackrock this week and there was a woman walking around coughing in to the air. Coughing over the products on the shelves, over her trolley and over her self scanning thingy she was holding. I wanted to say something to her, and I would have, except I did not want to go anywhere near her.
I was also in Curry's Carrickmines. A staff member working behind the counter was doing the same. I was amazed that none of her colleagues working alongside her did not say anything to her.
I said to her "coughs and sneezes spread diseases". She just laughed. Totally unaware.


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## michaelm

Nutso said:


> I watched a press conference yesterday from the Doctor that led the WHO investigation in China. He was very impressed with the way the Chinese have dealt with this and how their lockdowns have reduced the spread.


This article is interesting in this regard . . https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...cracies-are-better-fighting-outbreaks/606976/

"China’s harsh response to the coronavirus has influential admirers, but Western nations recognize that public health fundamentally depends on public trust."

"Democracies’ ability to cope with COVID-19 will soon be tested; after a  proliferation of cases in South Korea, Japan, and Italy in recent days,  officials are weighing how to respond. But citizens of democratic  nations can reasonably expect a higher level of candor and  accountability from their governments."


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## odyssey06

First case in N Ireland... they came from Italy via Dublin airport








						Covid-19 in Northern Ireland: HSE seeking to trace passengers seated near patient on Dublin flight
					

The Public Health Agency in Northern Ireland confirmed the news this evening.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## noproblem

City Link straight to the airport from the west on a beautiful morning, but a very very cold one. Not one mention of the virus and no procedure at all in place. Arrived at the airport, a few travellers going around in masks but otherwise nothing whatsoever would yell you that a virus could be in the offing. Went through customs, into a few toilets, walked around some of the shops, had a coffee and down to Gate 117 for my journey that enabled me to pass through a lot of the airport on the way to my gate but not a single sign or anything in place anywhere I went. As for the plane? It hadn't been cleaned out, just loose stuff picked off seats and the floor, the rest a bit messy and again, not as much as a mention of anything to do with Coronavirus. The usual coughs and grunts + runny noses during the flight with furtive glances being thrown at certain snorters, otherwise zilch confrontations. I was hoping for some action.  Same at the other end in Fuerteventura, nothing at all anywhere. There you have it, it might be different on the way home or in the resort, we'll see, but I wouldn't bet on it. Moral of this story being, mind yourself coz no one else is going to.   Also, it might help some people as some older ones I met today were rather anxious and quite nervous about this Corona stuff.


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## joe sod

@noproblem maybe you should have stayed at home so , you have as much chance of spreading it as any of those people you are criticizing, So everyone else must go to gargantuan efforts however ineffectual to stop the spread except for yourself.


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## Ceist Beag

noproblem said:


> City Link straight to the airport from the west on a beautiful morning, but a very very cold one. Not one mention of the virus and no procedure at all in place. Arrived at the airport, a few travellers going around in masks but otherwise nothing whatsoever would yell you that a virus could be in the offing. Went through customs, into a few toilets, walked around some of the shops, had a coffee and down to Gate 117 for my journey that enabled me to pass through a lot of the airport on the way to my gate but not a single sign or anything in place anywhere I went. As for the plane? It hadn't been cleaned out, just loose stuff picked off seats and the floor, the rest a bit messy and again, not as much as a mention of anything to do with Coronavirus. The usual coughs and grunts + runny noses during the flight with furtive glances being thrown at certain snorters, otherwise zilch confrontations. I was hoping for some action.  Same at the other end in Fuerteventura, nothing at all anywhere. There you have it, it might be different on the way home or in the resort, we'll see, but I wouldn't bet on it. Moral of this story being, mind yourself coz no one else is going to.   Also, it might help some people as some older ones I met today were rather anxious and quite nervous about this Corona stuff.


The sense of entitlement that oozes from this post! As Joe said, you are now part of the problem, kind of ironic given your username!


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## Sunny

noproblem said:


> Went through customs, into a few toilets, walked around some of the shops, had a coffee and down to Gate 117 for my journey that enabled me to pass through a lot of the airport on the way to my gate but not a single sign or anything in place anywhere I went.



A few toilets between security and the gate??? That alone would make me afraid to sit beside you....


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## Thirsty

Ceist Beag said:


> Twice apparently! (20 seconds in other words)


It's an achievement to get folks to do it once!


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## valery

Saavy99 said:


> I was appalled at the messy state of a ryanair plane I flew to Spain with few weeks ago.



hopefully guidelines will be given to airlines to do a proper clean between flights, particularly on those coming from northern Italy etc.

With a turn around time of 30mins, the tables and arm rests at least need to be wiped.


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## Saavy99

valery said:


> hopefully guidelines will be given to airlines to do a proper clean between flights, particularly on those coming from northern Italy etc.
> 
> With a turn around time of 30mins, the tables and arm rests at least need to be wiped.



Or else bring your own disinfectant wipes. Probably wise thing to do really.


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## odyssey06

From HSE website...
There is a *confirmed case of COVID-19 (coronavirus) in the Republic of Irelan*d. They are receiving treatment in hospital. Infection prevention measures are in place. Public Health Specialists are working to identify contacts who need advice and follow-up


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## llgon

odyssey06 said:


> From HSE website...
> There is a *confirmed case of COVID-19 (coronavirus) in the Republic of Irelan*d. They are receiving treatment in hospital. Infection prevention measures are in place. Public Health Specialists are working to identify contacts who need advice and follow-up



Have you a link to that page?


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## odyssey06

llgon said:


> Have you a link to that page?



Sure:








						COVID-19 (coronavirus)
					

Get advice about COVID-19, including symptoms, testing, vaccination and self-isolation.




					www2.hse.ie


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## Hooverfish

odyssey06 said:


> Sure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 (coronavirus)
> 
> 
> Get advice about COVID-19, including symptoms, testing, vaccination and self-isolation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www2.hse.ie



That page still says at the bottom:
"Page Last Reviewed: 31/01/2020
Next Review Due: 31/01/2023"


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## odyssey06

Hooverfish said:


> That page still says at the bottom:
> "Page Last Reviewed: 31/01/2020
> Next Review Due: 31/01/2023"



Yeah, that's the HSE for you. It's been edited multiple times sine 31/01/2020 including at 8pm tonight to announce the first ROI case.


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## SoylentGreen

The plane that the Northern Ireland person flew on from Italy has had a deep clean.
The train from Connolly station to Belfast has had a deep clean.
How did the person travel from the airport to Connolly Station?


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## rayn

Paracetamol or not?
RTÉ podcast recommends taking it. 
Dr Campbell on his YouTube daily bulletin says that it can impair your immune system and that he himself would never take it. There seems to be some truth in this!


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## Thirsty

Time for our National newspapers to remove their paywall for Corona virus articles.

When truth costs money and fake news is free, we all lose out.


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## KoalaB

IF Worldometer.info is correct then of the 87,674 cases of coronavirus only 45,625 have had an outcome (i.e. 42,049 still are active) and of those that have had an outcome there have been 2,994 deaths (that’s 7%). But obviously those figures would be diluted downwards by those people who got mild version of the virus and thus were never tested for the virus.

What is perhaps most troubling is that of the active cases 7,568 are serious/ critical. Not sure what the threshold for that categorisation is, but that is 18%.


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## Clamball

Remember back to 2001 and the steps taken by the government to stop the outbreak of Foot & Mouth.  Would similar drastic action need to be taken now to stop the spread in Ireland?   Actively discourage people from international travel.  Ask people not go gather in groups (mass, matches, entertainment, weddings, whatever). Practice hand hygiene, keep away from doctors & hospitals.  Work from home, don’t take public transport, do business by phone, not in person.  

I know my Father a farmer took way more than the recommended advice back in 2001.  The biggest downside for him was social isolation.   People felt their actions were in the best interest of the country despite personal cost.


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## johnl68

Just to clarify the Dr John Campell mentioned above states on his youtube channel that he's an A&E nurse(he has a phd in nurse education areas), so not a medical doctor. 
That's not to say any advice he gives is bogus, nurses are medical professionals also.


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## Saavy99

They call him a medical teacher. I have been following him for weeks now, he's clear, concise and to the point. I like his style and I applaud how well informed he is and how he relays this information to his followers.


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## johnl68

Saavy99 said:


> They call him a medical teacher. I have been following him for weeks now, he's clear, concise and to the point. I like his style and I applaud how well informed he is and how he relays this information to his followers.


Who is they?
It just turned me off to see him present as Dr John Campell while offering analysis on a medical topic, I assumed he was a doctor. His phd is in education(context is important in a serious situation such as the coronavirus). I'll have another look based on your recommendation.

I find the crisis the world is experiencing with covid-19 to be unsettling, the thought of 3000 people dead with the potential for many more is heartbreaking.
The majority of information we are exposed to comes from journalists, some are well informed others not so much. I want evidence based well informed opinions/advice.


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## jpd

I suspect that a lot of people get infected but only mildly and so are missing from the overall number of infected persons

Not trying to minimise the problem, just trying to keep a sensible position.


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## odyssey06

A SCHOOL IN Dublin is set to close for 14 days in response to the first case of Covid-19 in the Republic of Ireland... It’s understood the patient is a pupil at the school and that the school is based in Dublin.  








						Covid-19: Dublin secondary school to close for two weeks after pupil confirmed as first case in Rep of Ireland
					

Officials attended a media briefing this evening.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## josh8267

odyssey06 said:


> A SCHOOL IN Dublin is set to close for 14 days in response to the first case of Covid-19 in the Republic of Ireland... It’s understood the patient is a pupil at the school and that the school is based in Dublin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covid-19: Dublin secondary school to close for two weeks after pupil confirmed as first case in Rep of Ireland
> 
> 
> Officials attended a media briefing this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thejournal.ie


What is the planning in place to support workers and employers  if the patient worked in the private sector 188 a week instead of a normal weekly wage will not pay much of a Mortgage if groups of people have to self isolate for the greater good of the rest of the  Irish republic population,


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## josh8267

jpd said:


> I suspect that a lot of people get infected but only mildly and so are missing from the overall number of infected persons
> 
> Not trying to minimise the problem, just trying to keep a sensible position.


I think this is a worry people will not be in a position to self isolate resulting in infecting others and spreading the virus to people with compromised health,
A lot of damage can be done if people are slow to report suspected cases because they cannot afford time out of work unless/until they are sure the have the virus.,


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## fistophobia

I expect the DSP will put in place special social welfare payments, to cover a period of isolation.
188 a week is not to be sneezed at.


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## DeeKie

It’s very concerning, the outcomes are unknown. What preparations are people making? Would you be ready if you were told to self-isolate tomorrow?


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## SoylentGreen

Having a son with wife living in Hong Kong through this we have taken some advice from him.
We stocked up with some dry goods, such as pasta, rice, powders, tins etc. This was in addition to our normal shop. Nothing will go to waste, all will be eaten.
 In Hong Kong all the masks, hand gels were long gone after a few days. (hand gels are now back and available). People were fighting over toilet rolls in the supermarkets. Some of the packaged food stuffs were running low in supermarkets. Fresh food was plentiful.
We picked up a supply of hand gels, face masks, disinfectant wipes etc, here in Dublin before they were all gone. Initially these were bought to send to our son in Hong Kong, which we did, unfortunately some parcels disappeared in transit. Now we will keep some for ourselves, just in case.

People are the same all over and apparently there were queues in some supermarkets in Dublin yesterday. We bought mainly to avoid the queues and crowds.


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## odyssey06

Public Health England says highly likely there will be widespread transmission in Northern England.

EU Crisis Management Commissioner on coronavirus: "While we should not give in to panic, the situation is likely to still get worse so we need to be prepared and time is of essence"


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## Leo

Thirsty said:


> Hospitals struggle with the flu surge every year; need to minimise the number of people who need treatment in a short space of time.



Flu season was shorter than usual this year, it also started earlier, so it's effectively over.


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## Saavy99

SoylentGreen said:


> People are the same all over and apparently there were queues in some supermarkets in Dublin yesterday. We bought mainly to avoid the queues and crowds.



yes, this is most peoples opinion, avoid the supermarkets, riskof infect


SparkRite said:


> I don't where or what you are basing those odds on, but I think and hope you are way off.
> I don't know, personally, one person who got 'sars', ebola, avian flu, spanish flu etc.
> 
> As far as I can remember, I have never had a flu jab and, touch wood, nor have I ever got the flu and I worked
> for years in crowded and varied places. Countless colds and sniffles but never full blown influenza.
> And I ain't no spring chick.



I can say the very same thing, in fact I have never even had to take a antibiotic in my entire life.  I hope to live to be 100


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## Thirsty

Leo said:


> Flu season was shorter than usual this year, it also started earlier, so it's effectively over.


Thats not really the point though.


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## DeeKie

They are very quiet about the plans for worse case scenarios.


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## SparkRite

Thirsty said:


> scientific evidence.
> 
> And you'd need to be over 100 years of age to know any one who contracted the so-called 'Spanish Flu'.



'scientific evidence' ? Any chance you could give some pointers to this 'evidence' that the odds are we will all get it as you have stated, please?

As to your second remark, I think your maths may be a bit out. Spanish flu:- 1918-1919,  say I was born in the 50's, so a reasonable overlap of relatives aged 30+ as I grew up, wouldn't you agree?

My point is that a sweeping statement such as:-

*Thirsty said:*
*The odds are we are all going to get this, ............*

is simply not true and is IMO somewhat reckless and tantamount to scaremongering.


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## Thirsty

Get a grip.

Edit: Ok  I'll answer the question - H1N1, which surfaced in 2009  is now commonplace and part of the general infections we get. Thats what I base my 'odds' on. 

Tell me which of your relatives recalls suffering from Spanish Flu.


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## odyssey06

A second case of coronavirus has been confirmed in Ireland tonight. It concerns a female in the east of Ireland who travelled from Northern Italy. 
Up to yesterday, 397 people have been tested and the results have been negative. The exceptions are the two confirmed cases.








						Second case of coronavirus confirmed in east of country
					

A female in the east of the country, who travelled here from northern Italy, has been confirmed as the second case of coronavirus in Ireland.




					www.rte.ie


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## Thirsty

That's the third case surely?


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## DeeKie

Thirsty said:


> That's the third case surely?


They are not counting the person who ended up in Northern Ireland I think.


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## DK123

In my humble opinion there is far to much scaremongering by the media re corona virus.E.G.Dramatic newspaper headlines etc. to sell newspapers.etc. Some people are really overly frightened .


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## odyssey06

DK123 said:


> In my humble opinion there is far to much scaremongering by the media re corona virus.E.G.Dramatic newspaper headlines etc. to sell newspapers.etc. Some people are really overly frightened .



It spooked the Chinese, and that wasn't anything to do with media coverage. 
The measures they deployed in Wuhan \ Hubei to contain the virus were on a level I don't think any other country could match.


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## Sophrosyne

DK123 said:


> In my humble opinion there is far to much scaremongering by the media re corona virus.E.G.Dramatic newspaper headlines etc. to sell newspapers.etc. Some people are really overly frightened .



I disagree.

Our health systems could not cope with a major outbreak.

Containment is in the best interest of all but in particular our most vulnerable citizens who cannot afford to be exposed to this virus - oncology patients, diabetics, those with cystic fibrosis, those with compromised respiratory or immune systems, etc.

There have been 3 confirmed cases that travelled from Northern Italy through Dublin Airport and yet there are no restrictions on travelling to and from that region.

The insidious nature of this virus is that people who have it might not be symptomatic for a fortnight or longer and could spread infection to numerous people who, would have to be traced, including those in vulnerable groups. Then we would have a major outbreak.

Contrast current containment action with that of the 2001 foot & mouth outbreak.

Major sporting fixtures were postponed or cancelled. The St. Patrick's Day Celebrations were deferred, the Dublin Zoo and Fota Park were closed the Cheltenham festival was cancelled, there was a ban on horse and greyhound racing. The country was in lockdown for a month with travel restrictions everywhere and disinfection mats and buckets outside businesses schools, hospitals, etc.


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## odyssey06

from The Guardian: _Plans are being brought forward to allow the payment of statutory sick pay from the very first day someone is sick instead of four days, Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, has told MPs. _


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## Sophrosyne

Well if you ignore the China statistics the "recovered cases" are not all that great.


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## Fidgety

At what stage to civil liberties get suspended for the public good?. China embraced the might of the ‘big state’ and seem to have a handle on it based on what I have read. Colleagues there tell me that following enforced holidays after Chinese New Year, it’s back to business and back to work. That’s not to say it’s not having a mighty economic impact but I don’t know if in the West, we’re capable or desire such a similar lock down.


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## Sophrosyne

I would not regard cooperation in the case of a serious threat to public health a curtailment of my civil liberties.

If I am either advised not to or prevented from going to an area of high infection I would consider that rational and responsible for my own good and that of others rather than a civil liberties issue.


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## Fidgety

I agree. And that might be what it takes to contain it. The big worry is the ability of our healthcare infrastructure to cope with a surge in cases.


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## Fidgety

The list of large companies in the U.K. choosing to close their offices ‘out of an abundance of caution’ is rising. It’s not so easy for the self employed, small or medium sized businesses to do so from a cost perspective. Worse, it will seem like the choice of the ‘entitled’ instead of the rights of everyone to the same precautionary measures. That’s not counting the functional and economic impact.


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## odyssey06

4 new cases in the west of Ireland... seems to be a family of 4 who came back from N Italy.


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## Daddy Ireland

Current Worldometer reading is showing total cases 95,178 and currently 3.41% have passed on.   Currently 6,882 are serious or critical.  The consequences of the latter stat is that the death rate will likely go over 4%.   Digging deeper the USA statistics are off the charts with over a 7% death rate mainly down to several elderly passing on in a nursing home. Tired of reading people spouting false news that more people die from influenza.  Taking USA as an example the CDC say that during the 2018-2019 season an estimated 35 million people got sick with influenza with 16 million of those going to a health care provider for treatment which resulted in 490k hospitalizations and 34k deaths.


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## Sconeandjam

odyssey06 said:


> 4 new cases in the west of Ireland... seems to be a family of 4 who came back from N Italy.


One working in the health sector so how many people did they get in contact with since returning back from Italy? Should be told anyone returning in the last while that they should self quarantine now. But maybe it is too late.


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## Leo

Daddy Ireland said:


> Tired of reading people spouting false news that more people die from influenza.



How is that false news?


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## michaelm

Fidgety said:


> China embraced the might of the ‘big state’ and seem to have a handle on it based on what I have read.


Pity China covered it up initially (like SARS) otherwise it might have been possible to nip it in the bud.  For another perspective read this https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...cracies-are-better-fighting-outbreaks/606976/


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## Fidgety

Oh for sure they covered it up and engaged in all manner of activity democracies would not accept, but true containment with 1.4 Billion people probably required such stark measures.

If we let this get away on us, the consequences will be awful.


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## michaelm

Methinks you need largely voluntary compliance based on trust;  Orwellian State coercion will be less affective in the long run.


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## elcato

michaelm said:


> Methinks you need largely voluntary compliance based on trust; Orwellian State coercion will be less affective in the long run.


Yes. No doubt as we speak the parents of the affected school(s) are planning a cheap skiing trip seeing as they have 2 weeks off during school term.


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## Daddy Ireland

Leo said:


> How is that false news?


Anyone who quotes it quotes it in comparison to deaths from coronavirus.  Like only x amount have died from coronavirus versus the annual deaths from influenza.  Like I have stated, the % deaths to cases on both is what counts.   Off the cuff remarks like saying more people die from influenza are not reflecting the true attrition rate.


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## Brendan Burgess

I heard the HSE guy on the TV explaining that there is no point in testing people until they show symptoms. 

Someone coming back from Italy could have COVID but if it's too early to be showing symptoms, it's also too early to show up on tests. 

Brendan


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## Thirsty

You are forgetting about the numbers of people who will require medical intervention in order to survive this.

In countries with less developed health care system, its quite likely the death rate will be higher.

We are stretched here as it is.

Huge new healthcare facilities were built in Wuhan just to treat patients with Coronavirus.


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## Alkers86

Now confirmed one of the four cases in the West worked at least one shift in an emergency department. Hopefully that was before they had symtoms and hopefully that means they didn't transmit - I'm not sure this has been scientifically proven or not?


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## odyssey06

Leo said:


> No, saying more people die from flu is reflecting the facts as they currently stand. You seem to be mixing up total deaths and mortality rate.
> This year's flu season wasn't as severe as recent ones, so we may be closer to the 300,000 deaths worldwide this year than the 650,000 typically seen from more virulent strains. Flu season generally lasts about 13 weeks, it's also been 13 weeks since COVID-19 emerged, we've seen north of 3,000 deaths to date. I think it's fair to say anyone suggesting 300,000 is a lot greater than 3,000 is not the one peddling fake news.



It's not fake information but it is rather misleading to compare the total effects of a virus which is still breaking out versus a flu which has completed its 'season'. Bearing in mind flu season peaked in Australia last August, and the huge efforts deployed in China to prevent the spread of coronavirus.


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## Daddy Ireland

Leo said:


> No, saying more people die from flu is reflecting the facts as they currently stand. You seem to be mixing up total deaths and mortality rate.
> 
> This year's flu season wasn't as severe as recent ones, so we may be closer to the 300,000 deaths worldwide this year than the 650,000 typically seen from more virulent strains. Flu season generally lasts about 13 weeks, it's also been 13 weeks since COVID-19 emerged, we've seen north of 3,000 deaths to date. I think it's fair to say anyone suggesting 300,000 is a lot greater than 3,000 is not the one peddling fake news.
> 
> 
> 
> People who focus on the mortality rate need to understand that is only part of the picture. If you're worried about COVID-19's rate, don't read up on Ebola!!


Sorry Leo I stand over my post 133.  You can interpret anyway you wish.


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## Leo

odyssey06 said:


> It's not fake information but it is rather misleading to compare the total effects of a virus which is still breaking out versus a flu which has completed its 'season'.



It's comparing the affects of one virus to another, which is perfectly valid. Comparing them is exactly what the scientific community is engaged in so the better understand COVID-19 and how to deal with it.


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## huskerdu

Alkers86 said:


> Now confirmed one of the four cases in the West worked at least one shift in an emergency department. Hopefully that was before they had symtoms and hopefully that means they didn't transmit - I'm not sure this has been scientifically proven or not?



As with many viruses, you are contagious and CAN pass on the virus before you show symptoms. Thats why the danger of this spreading is high.


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## Leo

Daddy Ireland said:


> Sorry Leo I stand over my post 133.  You can interpret anyway you wish.



Fair enough, but I interpret 'more people' to mean more people, a greater number. You seem to be interpreting it as a greater percentage of those who contract the virus. 

Focusing purely on mortality rate is meaningless though unless you also factor in transmission rates and generation time.


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## michaelm

orka said:


> That's apples and orange: % of reported vs. % infected. A lot of covid19-infected people are not reported as they have mild symptoms


Or maybe it's apples and apples.  A lot of flu-infected people may not be reported due to mild symptoms.  In any event, I was just stating WHO said what.


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## Sophrosyne

I think it is too soon to trade off statistics.

However, I should like to ask what does containment mean?

No amount of handwashing or surface cleaning will help if I am a sneeze away from an infected person who is, or worse, is not symptomatic.

This is not an indigenous virus. It is imported and so far all imported from Northern Italy.

Surely it is less costly in health and economic terms to prevent/quarantine its arrival rather than deal with the damaging aftermath of its entry.


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## Leo

Sophrosyne said:


> This is not an indigenous virus. It is imported and so far all imported from Northern Italy.



What's an indigenous virus? This one originated in China.



Sophrosyne said:


> Surely it is less costly in health and economic terms to prevent/quarantine its arrival rather than deal with the damaging aftermath of its entry.



No, it isn't, and that's why bodies such as the WHO advise against such measures.


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## Sophrosyne

Leo said:


> No, it isn't, and that's why bodies such as the WHO advise against such measures



From the same website:

“Travellers returning from affected areas should self-monitor for symptoms for 14 days and follow national protocols of receiving countries. Some countries may require returning travellers to enter quarantine…”

In the case of quarantine, WHO considers countries with "limited response capacities" to deal with outbreaks.

And

“For countries which decide to repatriate nationals from affected areas, they should consider the following to avoid further spread of COVID-19: exit screening shortly before flight; risk communication to travellers and crew; infection control supplies for voyage; crew preparedness for possibility of sick passenger in flight; entry screening on arrival and close follow-up for 14 days after arrival.”


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## josh8267

First community-acquired case reported from Cork, looks like the middle aged man has being in contact with a lot of health care staff Before being tested and confirmed with the virus


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## Leo

Sophrosyne said:


> “Travellers returning from affected areas should self-monitor for symptoms for 14 days and follow national protocols of receiving countries. Some countries may require returning travellers to enter quarantine…”



You suggested:



Sophrosyne said:


> Surely it is less costly in health and economic terms to prevent/quarantine its arrival



The WHO suggesting people should self-monitor is a long way from preventing people entering the country.


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## seamus m

josh8267 said:


> First community-acquired case reported from Cork, looks like the middle aged man has being in contact with a lot of health care staff Before being tested and confirmed with the virus


There have been people in quarantine in cork hospital for during last month with the virus[/QUOTE]


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## Daddy Ireland

Big jump in deaths Italy today. 49 deaths today added to 41 yesterday.  Deaths gone over 4% of cases.  Good ol Ireland allow in all the Italians for the postponed game.  As stated before utter madness.


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## Daddy Ireland

5 new cases.


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## odyssey06

“The biggest challenge to the functioning of our State that we have ever seen.” 
A doctor from the Department of International Health and Tropical Medicine at the Royal College of Surgeons has said he thinks Covid 19 has become a national emergency.
Professor Sam McConkey said an Emergency Cabinet involving all parties should be set up to take stronger action.










						Professor from Royal College of Surgeons calls for Emergency Cabinet to deal with Covid-19
					

A doctor from the Department of International Health and Tropical Medicine at the Royal College of Surgeons has said he thinks Covid 19 has become a national emergency.




					www.breakingnews.ie


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## christopher....

I think we should be cautious about this virus. It may affect generations to come.
 There is no vaccine and research has just begun in ernest. It may not affect the young now but we may carry it until our immune systems become impaired.  
Look at how hard it is for past governments to stop the spread of Rubella, CMV, herpies and other resilant viruses. 
Will it affect our blood donor supply? How long does it remain in our systems? What could it mutate into? Will it affect the unborn child and in a few months time see the repercussions? It can cross between human and animal which is a cause for concern. 

All food for thought when washing your hands.


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## Saavy99

Yes, of course you are right but many older people are retired and they can do alot to protect themselves in the social distancing aspect.


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