# Social welfare and right to go back to education



## Bronte (20 Sep 2012)

Is it correct that someone who has worked for many years, made redundant and is on dole (PRSI dole) is not entitled to go back to education until a certain time period has elapsed?  A relation of mine was told they couldn't get approval from social welfare as they were about 7 days short.  What is this rule about?  Surely if people are trying to retrain, in a period when there are few jobs that they should be supported.  Is there a way around this rule?


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## Kkma (20 Sep 2012)

I don't know if there is a way around it but it is there to stop people who could possibly get work in their own field from retraining at the state's expense. Your relation could stay on the dole another year and then get the allowance. Yes, that is completely ridiculous and will end up costing the state more money, not less, unless your relation gets work in the meantime, which I guess is what the state is hoping for... but why would they when it scuppers their chances of getting BTEA and retraining for better prospects? Logic, anyone?


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## Protocol (20 Sep 2012)

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/BackToEducation/Pages/default.aspx


*Qualifying period*

For second level courses you must have been getting a qualifying social welfare payment (see above) for at least *3 months (78 days of unemployment*). *You must be getting the qualifying paymentimmediately before you start the course. 

For third level courses you must have been getting a qualifying social welfare payment (see above) for *9 months (234 days of unemployment*)*. You must be getting the qualifying payment immediately before you start the course. 

*If you are getting a jobseeker's payment, each day you are unemployed, except Sunday, is counted as a day of unemployment.


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## truthseeker (20 Sep 2012)

Its worth adding that you cannot use BTEA to do a masters or PhD, its a primary degree only (with the exception of H dip).

And you cannot get it if you already have a Post Grad.


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## gipimann (20 Sep 2012)

People who receive statutory redundancy are exempt from the qualifying periods outlined earlier, so can access education programmes sooner than others on the live register.


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## SarahMc (20 Sep 2012)

gipimann said:


> People who receive statutory redundancy are exempt from the qualifying periods outlined earlier, so can access education programmes sooner than others on the live register.



Immediately in the case of springboard iirc.


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## Caity (19 Dec 2012)

*Entitlement to Back to Education Allowance*

I am on job seekers allowance for the last couple of years, I have applied for college in 2013 and hope to get the BTEA.  After Christmas I would like to go to America for maybe three months to see if i can get work. If i went from February to May and came back, will i still qualify for the BTEA if i get offered a place in College?


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## SarahMc (19 Dec 2012)

Caity, BTEA as we know it was abolished in the budget. The top up has gone, as has the book grant. 
I don't know whether your break in SW will affect your payment. Best to check with your DSP Case Officer.


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## Caity (19 Dec 2012)

So if BTEA has gone, what has replaced it?


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## SarahMc (20 Dec 2012)

You just keep whatever payment you had. Whether it's 10 or 188 euro. Prior to budget 2013, BTEA recipients were all topped up to the maximum payment.


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## gipimann (20 Dec 2012)

To qualify for Back to Education Allowance, you must have been in receipt of a qualifying payment for 9 months, and be in payment (or have an entitlement) immediately prior to beginning the course of study.

The operational guidelines on Back to Education Allowance allow for linking of SW claims where there has been a gap of less than 52 weeks, in order for you to meet the 9 month rule.   This may allow you to take the 3 months as you propose and still meet the requirements.

All of this presumes that there will be no change to the qualifying rules between now and next September/October, other than those already mentioned in Budget 2013.


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## dereko1969 (20 Dec 2012)

Bronte said:


> Is it correct that someone who has worked for many years, made redundant and is on dole (PRSI dole) *is not entitled to go back to education until a certain time period has elapsed*? A relation of mine was told they couldn't get approval from social welfare as they were about 7 days short. What is this rule about? Surely if people are trying to retrain, in a period when there are few jobs that they should be supported. Is there a way around this rule?


 
They are entitled if they pay for themselves.


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## Bronte (21 Dec 2012)

Just to reply to my original query here, the head of the college of education was fuming at the carry on with social welfare. But the person applying for the BTE ultimately fell foul of another rule. If you've already got qualifications at a certain level then you cannot retrain at something that's lower. Gipiman might know the rule better than me. 

There are no jobs in the area the person was qualified but loads in the area of no qualification. After 2 or 3 years they would be able to walk into a job. Now they're twiddling their thumbs.

(No money Dereko)


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## gipimann (21 Dec 2012)

Here's the rule you refer to Bronte - qualification progression has always been a feature of the Back to Education Scheme

_The approved full-time education course must lead to a higher qualification on the National Framework of Qualifications other than that already held. It is not considered that existing graduates should have an entitlement to BTEA to pursue a course at a similar qualification level as, inter alia, this can lead to displacement of persons seeking such qualifications for the first time. Reference should be made to the National Framework of Qualifications e.g. If a person holds a Fetac level 5 qualification, they must be progressing to a level 6 qualification. _

Taken from the Operational Guidelines on Back to Education:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/bte_all.aspx


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## Bronte (21 Dec 2012)

You're like a walking encyclopedia on social welfare, thanks Gipimann.  If ever I need social welfare I'm coming straight to your desk.


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## dereko1969 (21 Dec 2012)

Bronte said:


> Just to reply to my original query here, the head of the college of education was fuming at the carry on with social welfare. But the person applying for the BTE ultimately fell foul of another rule. If you've already got qualifications at a certain level then you cannot retrain at something that's lower. Gipiman might know the rule better than me.
> 
> There are no jobs in the area the person was qualified but loads in the area of no qualification. After 2 or 3 years they would be able to walk into a job. Now they're twiddling their thumbs.
> 
> *(No money Dereko*)


 
I presumed that, sorry for the flippant remark but people (not you, generally) seem to bang on about rights and forget about the corollorary to that which are our obligations. 

That's why I thought the Clare County Council approach to the household charge and college grants was perfectly valid - play by our rules or think again about your "rights".

So, there is no "right" to the BTEA or it's replacement, there are rules that need to be followed and I think DSP has it right in this instance that you can't get funded to do a lower level course than the one you already have, otherwise half the country would spend their whole lives in education.


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