# MBNA gambling charge



## Shadowdude (13 Nov 2009)

Hello fellow online gamblers,

Has anyone else noticed MBNA's new 'terms and conditions' and susequent charge? Now, everytime you deposit to an online gambling site (such as Paddy Power or Boylsesports, etc.), MBNA will treat it as a cash withdrawal and charge 2.50 euro or 1.5% (whichever is greater).

I only noticed it when I logged into my MBNA account on Monday. I am not a big gambler at all. I do some horses on a Saturday. I might start and deposit 20 euro, see how I go, then maybe deposit another 10 euro etc. So there I was on Monday looking at 4 charges of 2.50 euro each for depositing into my Paddy Power account. (Most of my deposits were 10 euro).

When I called MBNA, they told me they recently changes their terms and conditions. They also suggested I deposit more into my paddy power account (?) to minimise the new charges.

Does anyone else have a problem with this? I do. Firstly its unethical to encourage people to gamble more and secondly this charge hits the small gambler far more than the big gambler (a regressive type of tax). A person depositing 200 euro won't care so much about the charge. The person depositing the small amounts is really going to see it build up.

I told MBNA that I would likely by cancelling my account (after being with them for 10 years) but they didn't care. If one credit card company starts this then they all will. Whats next? Surely a mobile top up with your credit card is the same then as a deposit into your online gambling account. Will there be a new charge for that next?

I know there is a recession on and I don't mean to offend anyone who is struglling with money by complaining about a gambling tax as such. I'm not a big spender at all, I just like a small gamble at the weekend.

Would love to hear anyone else's thoughts.
Shane


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Nov 2009)

Hi Shadow

Were the revised terms and conditions sent to you in hard copy? 

Was this new charge highlighted? 

Have you read the terms and conditions? Did you notice any other change?


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## vandriver (13 Nov 2009)

I received them a few weeks ago by post..


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## Shadowdude (14 Nov 2009)

Hi Brendan,

Yes I did receive the new terms and conditions but I didn't read them. It was several pages of small writing and I just assumed it was an interest rate change or something else minor. So I put them in the bin. Yes I know I should have read them! 

What gives MBNA the right to decide what is a 'cash transaction' and what is not?! I actually hope the Paddy Power and the rest of the gambling companies go after MBNA on this and encourage their customers to change their credit card company. Rip off republic is supposed to be dead at this stage.


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## callybags (14 Nov 2009)

When withdrawing funds from Paddypower you can request a cheque.

You could, therefore use your credit card to lodge funds and immediately withdraw by cheque.

I think this is what the credit card companies are trying to combat.

I don't know about any of the other online gambling sites.

It is more the fault of PaddyPower for allowing this to happen.


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## UFC (14 Nov 2009)

callybags said:


> When withdrawing funds from Paddypower you can request a cheque.
> 
> You could, therefore use your credit card to lodge funds and immediately withdraw by cheque.
> 
> I think this is what the credit card companies are trying to combat.


 
Why would they want to combat that though? You're still spending money using your credit card which is what they want...


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## Shadowdude (14 Nov 2009)

Hi Callybags,

The problem is that each time you put money into your paddy power account, MBNA charge you €2.50 or 1.5%. It isn't anything to do with witdhrawing money. 
S.


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## MOB (14 Nov 2009)

I expect that the reason for this charge is simply that MBNA have done their research  and concluded that most users of gambling sites are sufficiently attached to this pastime that they will continue with it even at the cost of greatly increased transaction charges.  

If this works well for MBNA, other card issuers will probably follow suit.   Then they will figure out that they could probably do the same thing if they surcharged all payments made for lapdancing clubs, alcohol ( at least in nightclubs), pornography and  so on: - really for  anything where the customer is not that terribly price-sensitive.


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## DrMoriarty (14 Nov 2009)

That's presuming that the providers of these services are prepared to allow themselves to be associated in the public eye with the likes of MBNA.


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## MOB (14 Nov 2009)

Yes indeed...."Pole Dancer reveals her MBNA shame" may well be a future red-top headline


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Nov 2009)

There will be a piece on MBNA's new terms and conditions in tomorrow's Sunday Times.


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## Blackberry (14 Nov 2009)

Shadowdude said:


> What gives MBNA the right to decide what is a 'cash transaction' and what is not?!


 
MBNA do not decide what is and what is not a cash transaction. Visa and Mastercard decide. These gambling transactions are what are called quassi cash transactions. Both schemes treat such transactions as CASH transactions. MBNA are well within their rights to charge such a fee and have obviously not decided to do so until now.

The reality is that there is no difference between withdrawing cash from an ATM and lodging what is essentially cash into a betting account....

The risk profile should not be treated any differently then a cash withdrawal, yet people have no difficulty charging such a fee on a ATM transaction.

Condsider yourself lucky you can perform a betting transaction on your credit card. In the US, you are unable to bet using a credit card. In the medium term this should not happen here.

For once, top mrrks to MBNA, remember we are no longer living in good old Celtic Tiger......risk now is the name of the game and how to contain it.

I do hope other issuers out there follow the lead.


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## Shadowdude (14 Nov 2009)

Hi Blackberry,

I fail to see what your point is about 'risk'? How is MBNA exposed to risk in this instance?
As for encouraging other issuers of credit cards to follow suit, have you not considered the regressive nature of the charge itself? It really impacts on the small gambler more. Surely there is a fairer way to charge people if such a charge is to become a permanent feature in Ireland?


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## Blackberry (14 Nov 2009)

Hi Shadowdude,

I do appreciate your point about the smaller gambler and you are correct, however I would guess are more interested in targeting the much bigger gambler.  

With respect to risk, of course there is a bigger risk and that risk is the risk of default.


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## bullworth (14 Nov 2009)

Blackberry said:


> The reality is that there is no difference between withdrawing cash from an ATM and lodging what is essentially cash into a betting account....



How soon does the Gambling company get the money ?If its not any sooner than a retailer does  then how can it be seen the same as an ATM cash withdrawal? The customer always gambles that the product will be suitable when buying.... whether it be a car, a expensive laptop or some gambling credits.


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## Blackberry (15 Nov 2009)

bullworth said:


> How soon does the Gambling company get the money ?If its not any sooner than a retailer does then how can it be seen the same as an ATM cash withdrawal? The customer always gambles that the product will be suitable when buying.... whether it be a car, a expensive laptop or some gambling credits.


 
The Bookie, will receive the money in the same way as any other merchant.
However that is of no concern to the Card Issuer.  They are only interested in getting back the funds advanced to the cardholder.

The funds are the same as cash because what the cardholder is doing is pre-funding an account with cash to conduct gambling transactions.  Also remember bookies can alllow punters to withdraw funds by other means.


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## Shadowdude (15 Nov 2009)

So then is buying phone credit 'funding an account' also? Shouldn't MBNA charge people 2.50 euro each time they top up ten euro? Its the same principle.


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## bullworth (15 Nov 2009)

Blackberry said:


> The Bookie, will receive the money in the same way as any other merchant.



So they have no justification for charging a cash advance fee because its not a cash advance.




Blackberry said:


> However that is of no concern to the Card Issuer.  They are only interested in getting back the funds advanced to the cardholder.
> .



The cardholder MBNA in this case is only interested in finding an easy target to levy more fees upon. This is no special case  apart from the support they will get from campaigning anti gambling people which they will use cynically to their advantage.  Tell me one case where a card company is not interested in being repaid by its customer (so long as that customers not a politician). 





Blackberry said:


> The funds are the same as cash because what the cardholder is doing is pre-funding an account with cash to conduct gambling transactions.  Also remember bookies can alllow punters to withdraw funds by other means.



The funds are not the same as cash. The cardholder is prefunding the account with credit, not physical cash. The gambling company does not get cash any faster than any retailer. The gambling company is doing the customer a favor by not making him wait for the money to clear. This is in line with the favor every retailer does for a customer. This is the principle of credit which every customer with a card uses with every retailer. Any cheque of winnings issued by a gambling company will be paid out of the gambling companies own money before the card company pays that gambling company because like every retailer they have to wait the same amount of time for payment as the computer company whos customers gamble that the expensive laptop purchased was right for them. IMO if card companies are claiming they are prefunding with cash then the gambling companies should insist on receiving cash immediately into their accounts. 

Its just another cynical way for the already overly expensive credit card companies to charge a fee. It wont stop gambling but it seems to give some shadenfreude to those who are antigambling to see someone who enjoys placing a small bet being hit for even more charges. One issue campaigners wont care about the methods of charging so long as the little guy gets his share of damnation for having any dealings with a gambling site.


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## sold (15 Nov 2009)

I called MBNA, they said they sent me a letter about the new charge (never saw it)

They said all credit card companies in Ireland are charging this charge so they are bringing themselves into line with the rest of them. 

I only used it to play lotto on lotto.ie. 

I was furious!, for sure will not be gambling with my credit card again. 

I check my MBNA card online every week and they could easily have updated their website do let their customers know. For sure there are others who have been conned into paying the fee.


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## sold (15 Nov 2009)

Brendan said:


> Hi Shadow
> 
> Were the revised terms and conditions sent to you in hard copy?
> 
> ...



I also have to say I honestly did not get the terms and conditions, (or any letter from them) They could have easily updated their website with the new terms and conditions.


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## Danniboo7 (16 Nov 2009)

Shadowdude said:


> What gives MBNA the right to decide what is a 'cash transaction' and what is not?! .


 

Possibly the fact that there is not physical "item" involved here and to be honest i'm surprised that they have only started charging this as a cash transaction now. If you don't like the charges you should just stop using your card. They sent you a hard copy of the Terms and Conditions and now you're giving out because you didn't read them and didn't know about them. I doubt you'll get much sympathy from them.


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## callybags (16 Nov 2009)

For anyone with a problem with this charge, the gambling sites will gladly take your money from a laser card.

There is always a choice.


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## Murt10 (16 Nov 2009)

MBNA also recently cancelled their free purchase protection insurance. This covered anything bought with the CC against accidental breakage or theft


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## Shadowdude (16 Nov 2009)

Danniboo7 said:


> Possibly the fact that there is not physical "item" involved here and to be honest i'm surprised that they have only started charging this as a cash transaction now. If you don't like the charges you should just stop using your card. They sent you a hard copy of the Terms and Conditions and now you're giving out because you didn't read them and didn't know about them. I doubt you'll get much sympathy from them.


 
I hold my hand up that I didnt read the terms and conditions and I have never given out about not knowing about them. Yes they did send them to me and yes I should have read them.
There is no "physical item" with loads of other transactions too and there is no charge.


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## Blackberry (16 Nov 2009)

bullworth said:


> So they have no justification for charging a cash advance fee because its not a cash advance.


 
Did you ever try to walk into a Bookie Shop and place a bet, using anything other then cash! 

Funds can be lodged to a betting account and withdrawn by other means, i.e converted into cash. 

Both Mastercard and Visa describe such transactions as quassi cash transactions and treat them as such.

A similiar situation arises with prefunding of stockbroker accounts, using credit cards.




bullworth said:


> The cardholder MBNA in this case is only interested in finding an easy target to levy more fees upon. This is no special case apart from the support they will get from campaigning anti gambling people which they will use cynically to their advantage. Tell me one case where a card company is not interested in being repaid by its customer (so long as that customers not a politician).


 
MBNA is not the cardholder, but is the Card Issuer - big difference.

These transactions represent a high level of risk for an issuer, and should be priced accordingly.

I have 






bullworth said:


> The cardholder is prefunding the account with credit, not physical cash.


 
Physcial cash has nothing to do with it.

If I make an electronic payment from my bank account to yours, I bet you would consider that just as nicely as physcial cash.



bullworth said:


> The gambling company does not get cash any faster than any retailer. The gambling company is doing the customer a favor by not making him wait for the money to clear.


 
If I withdraw money from an ATM, the acquiring bank will not receive the funds any faster either.


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## bullworth (17 Nov 2009)

Blackberry said:


> Did you ever try to walk into a Bookie Shop and place a bet, using anything other then cash!



Nope. I'm not much of a gambler.




Blackberry said:


> Funds can be lodged to a betting account and withdrawn by other means, i.e converted into cash.
> Both Mastercard and Visa describe such transactions as quassi cash transactions and treat them as such.
> A similiar situation arises with prefunding of stockbroker accounts, using credit cards.



The cash received from  a betting company is taken from the betting companys' cash. The bank does'nt part with any of its own cash any more quickly than it does when giving cash to Arnotts for a suite of furniture.  They should  be honest and admit they' re charging extra because they can get away with it.




Blackberry said:


> MBNA is not the cardholder, but is the Card Issuer - big difference.



Issuers can and do have different charging schemes for their cards. 





Blackberry said:


> These transactions represent a high level of risk for an issuer, and should be priced accordingly.



Why ? Every customer has a risk of not being able to pay no matter what the transaction. A credit limit is supposed to be given to someone who has the means to pay it off.



Blackberry said:


> I have



You have what ?






Blackberry said:


> Physcial cash has nothing to do with it.
> 
> If I make an electronic payment from my bank account to yours, I bet you would consider that just as nicely as physcial cash.




Not until it clears. The gambling company doesnt receive its cash any faster than any other retailer selling a service. If Card companies are going to discriminate against the customers of gambling companies by saying they are receiving cash then the gambling companies should demand to have the cash immediately.




Blackberry said:


> If I withdraw money from an ATM, the acquiring bank will not receive the funds any faster either.



Thats just an argument to add this extra charge to every transaction  so that gambling companies providing a service are not discriminated against. At the end of the day every transaction with any company amounts to cash but the Gambling company e.g Paddy Power doesnt receive cash any faster than say Arnotts does for selling a suite of furniture. If they did then I'd say you had an argument. Since they dont then in my opinion you dont have an argument. If Paddy Power decides to give cash to its customers, its own cash since it hasnt received cash from the credit card company then thats its own business.


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## Mpsox (17 Nov 2009)

If you use a credit card to gamble, then you are borrowing money to place a bet. That cannot be recommended for anyone. Surely that is the bigger issue here, not the charges the credit card companies impose


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## DB74 (17 Nov 2009)

Blackberry said:


> Funds can be lodged to a betting account and withdrawn by other means, i.e converted into cash.


 
That's not strictly true (in most cases)

Most, if not all, gambling sites now will not allow you to withdraw money from your account by a different method to that which you used to depsoit the funds in the first place until you have covererd the amount of deposits first.

Eg - I lodge €100 to Paddy Power using a VISA card and have a bet which wins another €50. Paddy Power will not allow me to withdraw €150 in cash. They will only allow me to deposit €100 back to VISA and then I can withdraw the other €50 however I like.

This is to combat money laundering.

There is however an issue with Mastercard as Mastercard do not accept refunds from some sites, gambling sites being one of them.

As an aside, the Lotto website ONLY allows customers to pay via Credit Card - they don't accept laser card at all (at least they didn't back in July when I registered)

I find this incredible that the National Lottery are encouraging people to play with money they don't have!


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## JoeB (17 Nov 2009)

Well, Tesco Credit Card have recently charged this charge on me when I transferred 50 Euro to a poker site. I rang up and asked what the story was... they assured me it was in the terms and conditions. (They also blocked my card due to this transaction which is way over the top in my opinion)

However I have read the terms and conditions from Oct 2009, and the definition of 'advance' includes cash, foreign currency or travellers cheques.. nothing about gambling sites. So I have rung them today 'coz of this thread and asked for clarification as to where the appropriate clause can be found...  they should be getting back to me.


The charge also applies to the purchase of lotto tickets I think.. but if you purchase them with food for example the charge doesn't apply.

Keep in mind you can buy meals in a casino (where the charge doesn't apply)... so the credit card companies rely on the retailers identifying the gambling transactions, .. but why should gambling sites do this as it disadvantages their customers?, ... most likely it's in the Retailer terms and conditions but still a rogue site could mis-identify the transactions...


What about transfer to a site like Paypal?.. as the money can then be withdrawn, or transferred again to a gambling site... so is money transferred to Paypal considered a cash advance?

I don't  see the point about the charge hitting the small gambler...  this is similar to saying that the cash advance fee in general hits people more who frequently withdraw small amounts rather than a single large amount.. simple solution is to only withdraw large amounts.. (of 166.67 Euros or more, as then the 1.5% rate kicks in... the 2.50 charge is used for all amounts up to 167 Euro, as p er the OP credit card company)

Cheers


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## DB74 (17 Nov 2009)

JoeBallantin said:


> I don't see the point about the charge hitting the small gambler... this is similar to saying that the cash advance fee in general hits people more who frequently withdraw small amounts rather than a single large amount.. simple solution is to only withdraw large amounts.. (of 166.67 Euros or more, as then the 1.5% rate kicks in... the 2.50 charge is used for all amounts up to 167 Euro, as p er the OP credit card company)


 
Because if you only bet in 10s or 20s then you get shafted with the fee.

Not everybody has > €167 a week/month to bet with!

Also if you went for a mortgage no bank is going to be impressed to see large sums of money being deposited to a gambling website. At least if it's small sums it's not too damning.


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## Shadowdude (17 Nov 2009)

Mpsox said:


> If you use a credit card to gamble, then you are borrowing money to place a bet. That cannot be recommended for anyone. Surely that is the bigger issue here, not the charges the credit card companies impose


 

Sorry but this is not strictly true in all cases. I keep my credit card in the black and then sometimes back a horse on a Saturday. I am not borrowing to gamble. Therefore, MBNA are charging me to use my own cash. Yes, I understand they need to make money too. And they do, when I have a big purchase to make, I use the card and sometimes pay interest while I am clearing it off. 

Can anyone recommend any other credit card? One that does not have this gambling charge? It seems from the other posts that the Tesco card has it too. I thought it was just MBNA.


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## Blackberry (18 Nov 2009)

Worth checking, but I think AIB don't charge the fee.


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## sold (19 Nov 2009)

callybags said:


> For anyone with a problem with this charge, the gambling sites will gladly take your money from a laser card.
> 
> There is always a choice.



no. lotto.ie only takes credit cards no visa. 


Unfortunately due to restrictions placed on us by the national regulator, we can't accept debit cards on our website. We can only accept credit cards issued within the Republic of Ireland.
Sorry for the inconvenience. This is a precaution against problems such as age verification.

-Aaron
  The Support Team
Thank you for playing National Lottery games.



 
===================================================
 Contact *Customer Support* at *support@lotto.ie* or *1890 244 344*
 An Post National Lottery Company, Abbey St Lower, Dublin 1.
===================================================


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## RNCFAN (25 Nov 2009)

Yes - minimum of 2.50 per transaction - seems though (if you win) and pay the money back on to the card from the gambling site the 2.50 is also credited back to your card.

MBNA are also charging interest per day on it until it is paid, from the time it goes on your card not just when it is overdue.

I'll not be using MBNA anymore anyway, I have long ago reached the end of my tether with them.


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## Shadowdude (26 Nov 2009)

RNCFAN said:


> Yes - minimum of 2.50 per transaction - seems though (if you win) and pay the money back on to the card from the gambling site the 2.50 is also credited back to your card.
> 
> MBNA are also charging interest per day on it until it is paid, from the time it goes on your card not just when it is overdue.
> 
> I'll not be using MBNA anymore anyway, I have long ago reached the end of my tether with them.


 

I'm with you on this. But what credit card company are you changing to? Any advice on who we should go to?


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## JoeB (31 Jan 2010)

An update (see my post above)

So, I requested the Terms and Conditions from Tesco showing that gambling is treated as a cash advance... they swore to high heaven that they were correct (in saying that gambling was mentioned as a special case in the T&Cs),... despite the fact that I had their T&Cs in my hand and was quoting from them, and they didn't have access to their own T&Cs, which is quite incredible.

They claimed to have posted the T&Cs to me on three to four occasions, including by Registered Post,.. however I never received any of the letters, although I have received over 5 years of statements with no problems. (There was a postal strike in the UK though in late 2009, to be fair..  but I still received all statements though)

Eventually they accepted that they were wrong, that their customer sevice was wrong, that the supervisors were wrong, and that they had no right to treat gambling transactions any differently, and that the Irish T&Cs didn't mention gambling. I insisted that they write to me when they had decided how to correct this issue and the overcharging.

So nothing happened for four to six weeks, ... so I rang them... they said all refunds had been issued... so I pointed out that mine hadn't.. they said they couldn't see any refunds due on their system, until I read from my statement of Sept 2009, clearly showing a cash advance interest charge... so they retracted, and then said that yes, I was due a refund (of 50c, it's not the money...).. .  but they also claimed that my situation was unique, a one off, and that all other refunds had been processed correctly. I asked what evidence they had for that... they had none... except the dubious evidence that one customer sevice Rep had not heard of this issue and didn't receive any calls about it. So Tesco assume that everything is fine unless customers are complaining, so they're clearly re-active rather than pro-active. 

I told them I had lost confidence in their ability to correctly administer my account and charges, and asked why should I have confidence in their systems given this acknowledged failure and Tesco's poor response and dismissive attitude. They seem to be ignoring this issue.

*
Do people feel I should report the matter to the Finincial Regulator??*

... quite simply I don't believe Tesco when they say they have processed all refunds, I don't believe them when they say they have issued letters to all those affected, and I have actually, genuinely, lost confidence in their professionalism and their ability to correctly and fairly apply charges. Prior to this I had considered Tesco Finance to be a very professional company, and I am actually shocked at their dismissive attitude to what I see as a serious problem.

Cheers


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## bond-007 (31 Jan 2010)

Did you ever get a final response letter from them? You will need one to take the matter further.


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## JoeB (31 Jan 2010)

No, no final response letter... they were supposed to be witing to me and they never did... 

However it was only on the 28th of Jan or so that I was last on, and they agreed again to write a letter setting out their side of things... it was around the 10th of Dec when they agreed gambling was not mentioned in the T&Cs, and when they agreed to send a letter,.. they did stop short of guarantee-ing (spelling?) a refund even though they acknowledged that there was nothing in the T&Cs which allowed for the charges.

I'll ring them once a week asking about the progress, if after about 2 to 3 weeks nothing seems to be happening I'll request to enter into a formal complaint procedure, this will likely have to be done by registered post. If that doesn't help then I'll consider going to the Regulator. 

They don't provide an email address for queries, only a phone number and a postal address.

Cheers


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## DublinTexas (31 Jan 2010)

sold said:


> no. lotto.ie only takes credit cards no visa.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately due to restrictions placed on us by the national regulator, we can't accept debit cards on our website. We can only accept credit cards issued within the Republic of Ireland.
> ...


 
They gladly take my Visa Debit Card issues by Halifax.


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## Rudolph (31 Jan 2010)

I know they definitely charged me back in Sept/Oct last year, I must revisit this with them. When I queried it with them at the time they said it was in their Ts & Cs. Didn't use it again for gambling purposes. As far as I know the Regulator would have to approve this charge under the CCA. I'm going to follow up with Tesco next week.


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## ajapale (31 Jan 2010)

Shadowdude said:


> Has anyone else noticed MBNA's new 'terms and conditions' and susequent charge?
> 
> Does anyone else have a problem with this? I do.
> 
> Would love to hear anyone else's thoughts.



Hi Shadowdude,

I have no problem with it! 

Its MBNA's product and they are entitled to apply whatever terms and conditions they wish. (So long as they comply with regulations and the law of the land).

If MBNA want to treat a gambling transaction as a cash advance then they are perfectly entitled to do that.

aj


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## JoeB (10 Feb 2010)

Hi

I have posted above... my problem is continuing and Tesco continue to appear dismissive, and to constantly change what they say, and to make false promises.

I have received a letter from them dated the 03-02-10... in it they state that (quote) 'cash advances including cash substitutes, foreign currency, travellers cheques, money transfers, finance payments, and gambling/betting transactions have no interest free period'.. and that 'interest will also be charged on the interest charges'.

This is completely different to what they define a cash advance as in their terms and conditions... and will likely be news to all Tesco credit card holders.

I will be ringing them tomorrow, and depending on how that goes I will be reporting them to the Financial Regulator soon. I'd suggest that all Tesco cardholders do the same...

Cheers so,


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## Crunchie (22 Feb 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> Hi
> 
> I have posted above... my problem is continuing and Tesco continue to appear dismissive, and to constantly change what they say, and to make false promises.
> 
> ...



New T&Cs arrived with my Tesco Visa bill today. Effective 30 April 2010 "advance" includes "carry out a gambling transaction"

"Gambling transaction" means " a transaction where payment is made to an establishment that is identifiable to us as carrying on gambling whether or not the purpose of the transaction is payment for gambling activity"


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## JoeB (22 Feb 2010)

Hi

Yes, I am aware that they are now changing their T&Cs.. however in the past they were incorrectly treating gambling transactions as 'cash advances' and charging accordingly... even though gambling wasn't mentioned in the T&Cs.

I have discussed the wording of the new T&Cs with them. I have asked about hotels in Las Vegas... in their new T&Cs all transactions in Las Vegas could legimately be called gambling transactions... definitely in hotels like Caesars Palace, or The Bellagio. So it's not really a credit card that's suitable for use in Las Vegas hotels... regardless of what you wish to get credit for.

They are investigating my claims, and it's ongoing... in short they have consistently refused to guarantee refunds where they have applied charges incorrectly, (i.e differently to what was in the T&Cs).

My post above was the 10-02-2010... I called the following day, and again I was on the phone for an hour or so!!!, and they were denying everything again.. eventually a senior person accepted what I was saying, and an investigation was begun. Incidentally I have recordings of the phone conversations, of many hours duration, going back to when I first raised this issue, back in October or November of 2009. They acknowledged the problem in Dec, 2009 but appeared to do nothing about it.


I wonder is the new wording legal?.. I suppose it is, but it seems to make Tesco the final arbiteur of what is a gambling transaction and what is not... which could be abused by them.,... even Tesco supermarkets sell lotto tickets which is gambling.. so tansactions carried out in all Tesco stores could be classed as 'cash advances' if they wished.


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## branners (13 Apr 2010)

RNCFAN said:


> MBNA are also charging interest per day on it until it is paid, from the time it goes on your card not just when it is overdue.



I got stung with the €2.50 charge over the weekend. I put €50 on my credit card for the National. I had €200 outstanding on my card. So including the €50 and the charge I now have €252.50 on my card. I plan on paying off €100 this Thursday, will that cancel out the €50 so I wont be paying interest on it or do I need to clear the full €252.50 so stop paying the interest?

Thanks!


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## JoeB (13 Apr 2010)

It's likely you need to clear the balance completely.

This is to do with the order in which your payments are applied to the outstanding items... this order should be given in the T&Cs and on mine the cash advances, gambling charges are near the bottom, and will be towards the end to be paid off. You'll also have to pay a little more to cover the interest.


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## agentino (13 Apr 2010)

I am not sure what caused credit card companies to start treating transcations with Bookmakers differently (For example a CC company will not charge you to deposit with Betfair which is an exchange. However Betfair themselves will charge you 1.5%)
However it has been well flagged as it was first introduced in the UK.

It is sharp practice no question there but lets be honest folks if it brings credit card gambling under control then I am all for it to be honest.

We are going to have to wise up when dealing with financial institutions


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## Blackberry (13 Apr 2010)

agentino said:


> We are going to have to wise up when dealing with financial institutions


 

Load of rubbish......We have entered a new era for banking......fees, interest rates etc.  WILL rise accross the board.....especially with a number of foreign banks leaving these shores........Banks will cherry pick the new customers they will want to dael with.....Fact!


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## JoeB (13 Apr 2010)

agentino said:


> ... (For example a CC company will not charge you to deposit with Betfair which is an exchange. However Betfair themselves will charge you 1.5%)
> 
> However it has been well flagged as it was first introduced in the UK.



about six months to a year now... Tesco credit card do charge on transactions to Betfair, and they were so eager they started to treat 'gambling transactions' differently  up to six months before they bothered to tell their customers about it. The changes to the T&Cs were  only made in March 2010 I think, or else April 2010




agentino said:


> It is sharp practice no question there but lets be honest folks if it brings credit card gambling under control then I am all for it to be honest.
> 
> We are going to have to wise up when dealing with financial institutions



I don't see it as a sharp practice, as long as they tell you about it, unlike Tesco who didn't bother..

The point of it isn't to bring gambling under control, the CC companies don't have a social conscience... they ae doing it because they can.


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