# Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Eflow



## Thedavman (12 Nov 2008)

Returned from work yesterday to find an Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) from Eflow. In addition to the €3.00 toll charge, a further processing charge of €40.00 has been included. The UTN also advises on the date, time and direction that the car was travelling together with the relevant legislation and the maximum fine and potential imprisonemnt of a term not exceeding 6 months. 

On reviewing my calendar, I noted that I did not have my car on the alleged unpaid toll date, I had allowed my girlfriend use it for a long drive to the West. Indeed you can just about make her out behind the wheel. Herein the problem lies, as my girlfriend had paid the toll within the specified deadline. 

I spoke with Eflow this morning and all the Customer Services Rep. could do was cancel the charges if I advised of my car's registration number. At the bare minimum I want a letter of apology, accordingly I did not give my Reg. merely a telephone number that a 'team leader' may contact me on later today.

My query is whether Eflow have acted illegaly by issuing the UTN when the toll was paid? I am an accountant and I know that if I raised an invoice for a service which I had not provided I would be sued immediately and lose my Practising Cert. Have Eflow acted in contravention of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act? Should I complain to the office of the Ombudsman?


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## Vanilla (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

Eflow is a disaster. Let it go.


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## Thedavman (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

I know they are a disaster but i really dont want to just let it go. My blood has been boiling since last night when i received the UTN. It is totally unprofessional and unfair. Surely they must be acting in contravention of some legislation?


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## j26 (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

I'm sorry, but I don't get what the problem is.  Maaybe I'm reading it wrong, so correct me if I am, but what I see from that is that your girllfriend used the car on the toll, paid it, and you got a notice as the registered owner of the vehicle that the toll was unpaid.  You rang up and said it was paid, and they offered to cancel the charge.

I don't see where the problem is there.


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## Thedavman (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

The problem is that they caused me stress as i was unable to confirm whether my girlfriend had paid the toll for a number of hours. They are also wasting my otherwise chargeable time. 

Everytime i have gone through the toll i have paid, however i still received notices advising that i did not pay. Then i received a notice advising of the further charge. How am i to accept these notices when they are totally incorrect. I have already suffered from their errors and paid a toll twice.


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## Vanilla (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

So write to them and demand an apology if you feel that strongly about it. And if they don't then complain to the ombudsman. Or forget about it.


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## brodiebabe (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*



Thedavman said:


> Returned from work yesterday to find an Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) from Eflow. In addition to the €3.00 toll charge, a further processing charge of €40.00 has been included. The UTN also advises on the date, time and direction that the car was travelling together with the relevant legislation and the maximum fine and potential imprisonemnt of a term not exceeding 6 months.
> 
> On reviewing my calendar, I noted that I did not have my car on the alleged unpaid toll date, I had allowed my girlfriend use it for a long drive to the West. Indeed you can just about make her out behind the wheel. Herein the problem lies, as my girlfriend had paid the toll within the specified deadline.
> 
> ...


 
They made a mistake.  You are not out of pocket.  What is the problem?

Do you want to be compensated for the stress while you waited to hear whether your girlfriend had paid or not?


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## europhile (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

This one could go all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.


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## Thedavman (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

Try to keep on topic, if not dont bother posting europhile.


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## Ceist Beag (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*



europhile said:


> This one could go all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.



 Thedavman why don't you take on board the advice given here and let it go, you'll get yerself into a knot if something like this get's you so stressed!


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## europhile (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

That's me has my card marked!


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## ney001 (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*



Thedavman said:


> I know they are a disaster but i really dont want to just let it go. My blood has been boiling since last night when i received the UTN. It is totally unprofessional and unfair. Surely they must be acting in contravention of some legislation?



I'm having my own similar problems with eflow at the moment - but in your case they've apologised and taken the costs off - I fail to see what else you're going to achieve! - it's admin error plain and simple!


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## j26 (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

To get back on topic

They made an error, and offered to correct it.  You decided to withhold you registration and prevent them from correcting the error, and now want to compain to the authorities that they broke legislation.

What did they do wrong that merits a complaint?  
Making a billing error? Please don't tell me that doesn't happen - in my past dealings with ESB/Eircom/ESAT/O2/Smart/Vodafone/Sky/NTL etc every one of them has sent me a wrong bill at some stage, and I would have been damned lucky to have had it sorted as fast Eflow offered to sort you out.  These things happen.
Offering to fix it?  Well that's just ridiculous.
Taking time to do so?  If someone rang you and said I don't owe this invoice you sent me", would you just say "that's fine, forget about it", or would you get it checked out.  What if it happened just before your lunchtime - would you forget about lunch to ensure that this person doesn't owe you money?

Edit:  How many chargeable minutes are you losing by ranting here?


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## paddyjnr (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

Edit: How many chargeable minutes are you losing by ranting here? [/quote]  Ha ha, we're all in flying form this morning!!!!!


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## ubiquitous (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

All joking aside, this is a serious issue for consumers.

How many people are being incorrectly billed for tolls they have already paid, along with an extortionate "processing charge" and threats of court action?

How many of these people are paying these incorrectly-billed charges, either for the quiet life, or their employer is reimbursing the cost, or because they're afraid to confront Eflow? I know my mum would be in the latter category.

Would we accept similar practices from the likes of eircom, vodafone or 02?



Thedavman said:


> I am an accountant and I know that if I raised an invoice for a service which I had not provided I would be sued immediately and lose my Practising Cert.


Oddly enough, I had reason to point this out to the ICAI a few years ago when they debited my credit card account twice for a CPD course fee, and then claimed they were unable to reverse the error. They were highly impressed


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## davidoco (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*



ubiquitous said:


> How many people are being incorrectly billed for tolls they have already paid, along with an extortionate "processing charge" and threats of court action?


 
Used the toll both ways, paid the €6 euro but a couple of hours after deadline. Got two four page letters in post - setting out extra charge but paragraph included there somewhere to state extra charge was waived.
Got another two two page letters in post with the extra €40 euro fine.

Noticed then the eflow had refunded me the €6 to credit card hours after first paying.

Quick phonecall and then got "Everything in order" letter. While there may be a mess, obviously they sort out issues when called.


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## jhegarty (12 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

I got the non-paid letter myself , but may car was sitting outside my house in cork at time (and hasn't been within 100 miles of dublin in the last 2 years)....


It was however all sorted with a phone call , including a very generic letter of apology....


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## Serenity1 (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

I got 4 - AKA a small rain forrest through my door.

My brother used my car on 10/10 and 12/10 going through the tolls both ways.  He paid €12 on 11/10 (prepaying the 12/10 trips).  I got the unpaid letters for all 4 trips.  Called the bro who provided the receipt, he called them and they told him it was sorted.  Last week i got the invoice for the fines - €172 in total.  Called them again - this caused a prob as my bro had by then discarded that receipt.  Luckily the guy on the phone found a 'note' on the system about his last call.  My bro has since used the car and prepaid another €12.  The guy told him 'never' to prepay as it is causing difficulties.  So now i am waiting now to see if i get a summons and also more invoices/fines.  

Ironically i used the toll last month and totally forgot to pay despite working next door to a pay station.  I have never received a bill.  ???


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## Serenity1 (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

Boy do i love to tell stories - just 1 more i promis.

My boyfriends company vans go throught he tolls on a regular basis.  They are registered so there should be no problems.  His accountant got a couple of unpaid letters.  The letters stated that they should be paid within the 14 days - she got them on day 15.  When she called she was told she had to pay €43 euro each as they we outside the allotted time.  She pointed out the the vans were registerred and received a ' o right sorry about that' kinda apology.

The system is crap there is no doubt.  But i did just talk to a guy who claimed that barrier free tolling had cut his travel time for 40 mins. each way.


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## csirl (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*



> How many people are being incorrectly billed for tolls they have already paid, along with an extortionate "processing charge" and threats of court action?


 
Some of the lawyers on this board maybe can elaborate.

Dont these fall under unjust enrichment, paying under duress? Isnt there a series of precendent cases whereby organisations have been unjustly enriched because, due to the power they claim to wield - in this case the threats of court action - that many people, who are not confident with legal situations, are afraid not to pay a demand for fear of getting into trouble and/or because there is too much hastle associated with contesting the demand?

I would expect that there is a large % of people fall into these categories thus illegally enriching the toll companies?


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## Cheeus (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

It is also strange that when you go online to pay the toll you cannot enter your registration number and pay what ever toll is against it. Instead you have to tell them what you owe. It's no wonder that it doesn't pick up what tolls have been paid - looks like they mightn't even have had them on their system to begin with!?

I too was sent a €40 fine when I had already paid the toll. It was sorted out with a phonecall. To look for a further written apology is crazy - they send one anyway which is a further waste of money and is damaging the environment.


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## timmy1 (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

sounds like it all worked out fine.  just forget about it and move on.
It's a new system there is bound to be some bedding in problems.

what's the big deal?


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## ubiquitous (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

It seems to be a case of inadequate/inefficient systems rather than "bedding in" problems.

The points raised by Cheeus in particular deserve an answer from eFlow.


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## MugsGame (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

What if you have a hire car? Will the car hire company pay out on incorrect notices and then deduct the toll from your credit card?


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## ubiquitous (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

Of course they will, plus they will charge their own admin fee on top of that. I wonder what our tourism bodies have to say to eFool about the matter?


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## gillarosa (17 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

What's even worse is, a toll which was €2 when paid to a person in a booth now somehow cost 150% of the original cost when now mechanised, which surely should have reduced the cost to the consumer rather than increase it?


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## johnjoda (17 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid!*

How many people are being incorrectly billed for tolls they have already paid, along with an extortionate "processing charge" and threats of court action?




Me, s**t happens


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## car (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

got bill in last week for 80e for 2 unpaid trips last month.

went through twice 20th oct.  forgot to pay day after. Hands up, fair cop, genuinely forgot, didnt get a letter though to say i owed the 6e until the bill for 80 last week..

However, went through 5 maybe 6 times since  including within 14 days of that unpaid trip and did pay the day after and paid the 6e for each round trip..   

Now, I queried how did they know which trips I was paying the subsequent 6 euros for and if they were unsure why was I getting fined for the earliest one.   
"dont know sir, havent thought about that so we'll just say youre paying for the unpaid toll then and say youre querying the fine."

Their system is really poor and hasnt been given much thought to be honest.    If you cant preypay or only want to pay as you go, when you go to submit your car reg, you should have to register and log in and see if theres any outstanding tolls and then click what tolls youre paying for, then you or they dont have any cause for complaint as long as that data is right.


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## Simeon (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

Paid by card at 22.30 yesterday for journey on Saturday. The guy at the 1850 number assured me that E3 was all I owed. I would have thought it was double that for not paying before 20.00 on Sunday. A genuine case of forgetting that I had driven past the yoke!


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## St. Bernard (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

I think they are still allowing time to get use to the system and therefor not charging you €6 immediatly if you dont pay by 8pm next day.


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## Doolox (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

I walk the roads of Lucan and get asked directions from people from the country who ask directions and when told to take the toll bridge refuse to do so because of the difficulty of paying the tolls.

I also have received the letters looking for payment of paid tolls and the phone has fixed them all.

It is a confusing mixed up mess and a travesty of accounting and would not be tolerated in any other company.


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## Sylvester3 (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Failure to pay toll charge. Which was actually paid! Unpaid Toll Notice (UTN) Efl*

I've set up a Video account with eflow using my Laser card - should I be aware of any problems or issues that might arise with this system? I am driving from Cork to Belfast tonight, and back again on Sunday, so this will be the first experiment with it for me.


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