# Re: Learner Drivers



## cagney (24 Oct 2006)

Did any one see what said in newspaper tonight?


 Learner drivers and those just qualified will be automatically banned from driving if they get six penalty points instead of the normal 12 points. Drivers who pass the test face the six point ban for a further two years.

* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.

* They will be restricted to low engine size vehicles for a set period. The size has yet to be determined but it is expected L-drivers and new full licence holders will not be able to drive high-powered two-litre cars and will be restricted to entry grade 1l to 1.4l.

* They will have to put 'R' plates on the front and rear of their cars.

* They will have a zero drink-driving limit.

Mr Brett said he was "frustrated and slightly disillusioned" at the spate of road deaths involving young male drivers. 

 But motorists who pass their driving test will also be subject to the new rule for a two-year probationary period after they get their full licence.


They are blaming Learner drivers on everything that goes wrong on roads, Im a learner and i dont behave like that on  road, if anything alot "so called Full licence driver" drive worse on road and they bully learner drivers.. Does anyone elase see the a problem with above?... How many out off the 435 something people  go caught drink drinking last  week were L-Drivers? 

I love to hear any comments on this?


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## jdwex (24 Oct 2006)

cagney said:


> * L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.


TBH if they do this they should ban L Drivers from N roads. Seeing as most of our N roads are single carriageway, it could be counter productive to let L Drivers drive on  them (because of the dangerous overtaking that would result)
jd


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## delgirl (24 Oct 2006)

It doesn't go far enough.  There's no provision for a required minimum amount of training before they take to the road at all or are allowed to apply for their test.

I wonder how many of the 17 year olds killed on the roads this previous week were learner drivers and would they have been saved / safer if the restrictions had been in place?

They can make all the laws the like, if the Gardai don't enforce it, then it's useless and will not stop the carnage on the roads.


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## hawkeye10 (24 Oct 2006)

I agree, did you hear what MR BRett said, that people pay more for Irish dancing lessons than they do for driving lessons even though people are driving high power dangerous cars. something has to be done


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## Ceist Beag (24 Oct 2006)

I agree with every one of these proposals and as delgirl says they should go even further. It's a crazy situation at the minute where so many unlicensed drivers are on the road. Someone can go in a miserably fail their driving test and then they just hop in the car and drive off home again! Something has to be done and at least this is a start.


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## ulcercentral (24 Oct 2006)

cagney said:


> * L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.


 
L-drivers are not permitted on motorways anyway...

I don't think L-drivers are all to blame for the deaths on our roads, and I agree with delgirl, it doesn't matter what laws are in place if there's no enforcement of such.

The R-plates are already in place in the North and UK and apparently work, but I have never seen any statistics or such to prove this.

In the end though, all these won't make a blind bit of difference if there's no enforcement...


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## mell61 (24 Oct 2006)

For all the talk of L drivers and young drivers linked to road deaths, can anyone give me a recent incident when an L driver has been stopped and fined for driving on M roads, where L drivers are stopped to check that they have a fully qualified driver with them in the car.... On any given day on the M50 / M1 I would guesstimate that I see about 1 in 4 cars with L plate and a single driver.
Its all very well to appear on the telly and in newspapers discussing the issue, but the cops on the roads don't seem to be interested in enforcing the current laws, so why would more laws make any difference!
Even though it would cause chaos, let the cops set up a few checks on the M roads daily for a week or 2 and see if that makes any difference.

The suggestions above are fine, R plate, etc, but why not limit the cc of a car in the first 1-2 years to under 1400cc.... its the combination of over confidence, and over powered that seems to be one of the fatal factors...  These days it appears that most 19-22 year olds (and I'm not limiting it to fellows only, there are a lot of female speed freaks out there also) are in 1.6L cars as a bare minimum!


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## JP1234 (24 Oct 2006)

I agree it is wrong to put the blame mainly on L Drivers, as already stated, there are plenty of full licence holders who seem incapable of driving. I wonder, are there any statistics breaking down the % of learner/full licence holders involved in serious accidents.   We definitely need a system of forcing people to have a minimum number of lessons signed off by a qualified instructor before being allowed to obtain a second or subsequent licence let alone  sit a test.

But again, as others have said, without any real enforcement of the rules of the road and driving laws these measures will make little or no difference.


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## delgirl (24 Oct 2006)

mell61 said:


> The suggestions above are fine, R plate, etc, but why not limit the cc of a car in the first 1-2 years to under 1400cc.... its the combination of over confidence, and over powered that seems to be one of the fatal factors... These days it appears that most 19-22 year olds (and I'm not limiting it to fellows only, there are a lot of female speed freaks out there also) are in 1.6L cars as a bare minimum!


A case in point here from an AAM contributor who has just passed his/her test and is looking at a BMW 320d with a 2 litre engine, turbo, 136bhp.  

I understand people wanting to drive a nice car, I'm a bit of a car fanatic myself, but it's just too powerful, IMHO, for someone who has just passed their test.


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## ubiquitous (24 Oct 2006)

How would Garda enforcement stop five young lads playing chicken at up to 150km/h on an isolated country road?


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## michaelm (24 Oct 2006)

According to their website, the Road Safety Authority are seeking submissions from the public for their Road Safety Strategy 2007 - 2001, the e-mail address for submissions is strategy@rsa.ie


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## Sunny (24 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> How would Garda enforcement stop five young lads playing chicken at up to 150km/h on an isolated country road?


 

Totally agree with you. People have to start taking repsonsibility for their own lives and the lives of others and stop trying to blame the state. There is a difference between a tragic road accident and an accident waiting to happen.


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## foxylady (24 Oct 2006)

cagney said:


> Did any one see what said in newspaper tonight?
> 
> 
> Learner drivers and those just qualified will be automatically banned from driving if they get six penalty points instead of the normal 12 points. Drivers who pass the test face the six point ban for a further two years.
> ...


 
I agree, I too am a learner driver and am sick of the attitude of "fully qualified drivers". What about full licence holders who never sat a test in their life.

Also if you notice that the majority of these road accidents are on country roads which might suggest the poor condition of these roads as well


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## r2d2 (24 Oct 2006)

My two pence worth.....I don't believe it's about the 'L'.......I reckon it's about the 'age'......and....not being sexist but it's primarily a male thing....I for one am prepared to admit that I drove like a lunatic from 17 - 19, maybe 20....It wasn't about not being able to handle a car or not knowing the rules of the road, it was about aggression, speed, showing off, stupidity and immaturity. I would never have thought that I could die in a car ! Now I'm late 30's....Still big into cars, would still glance at 0-60's and top speeds etc. but I drive with respect for myself, my kids and those on the road around me. I realise how fragile the human body is and I've seen real photos of crash victims rather than the "It was the one without the seat belt that did the damage" type soft/shock tactic images. I'd be pretty sure that a lot of males reading this post would concur that most of the 'silly' driving they did was in their teens....

The main difficulty is that these new rules tar all drivers with the same brush, for instance, how many teenage girls play chicken with each other at 100...?? Yet, they will have to adhere to the same new regulations....

I'm struggling to come up with any suggestions at all as to how to get teenage boys to calm down on the road and the only thing that springs to mind takes me back to 'Not The Nine O'Clock News' all those years back when Pamela Stephenson said "Cut off their goolies, chop them off"


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## Eurofan (24 Oct 2006)

Clarkson mentioned a similar train of thought in his piece in Top Gear magazine recently. Basically 17-19 year old males reckon they are invincible and no amount of 'shock' advertising and media coverage of the carnage will change their minds.

Like yourself r2d2 i recall those years when i thought i could never crash. Never quite drove like a lunatic but definately thought i was a much better driver than i was. A detour into a ditch (after taking a corner too fast) quickly cured me of that. Thankfully i wasn't hurt and the car was even mostly fine afterwards too.

While i'm a big car fan today and drive a quite powerful car i've drastically changed my attitudes to driving. The 'fun' stuff is reserved for track days and i am obsessive about proper driving skills as taught by the likes of [broken link removed] 

Driving should be seen as a privilage not a right and proper driving skills should be taught in secondary schools as part of the curriculum.


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## michaelm (24 Oct 2006)

cagney said:


> * L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.  . . . I love to hear any comments on this?


IMHO all provisional licence holders should be put off the road.  

 A provisional licence should merely allow one to take lessons in a suitably equipped vehicle with a suitably qualified instructor.  Having completed 20 hours on the road and some set amount of time in the classroom one should then be entitled to sit a driving test, each failure should necessitate a further 5 lessons before a re-test.

 Newly qualified drivers should of course display R plates and amongst other things be restricted to a 1.2L car and a max. speed of 80K/H for 2 years.  All vehicles should be electronically limited to 130K/H.

 I seems to me that with an invertebrate Minister and a toothless RSA little will change.  As ever, drivers should be reminded that driving is a privilege not a right.


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## Sunny (24 Oct 2006)

You can make people do all the lessons and tests in the world and it won't make a bit of difference until both provisional and full licence drivers realise that speed and drink kill. How many bodies need to be put into the ground before people start to grasp the message. It doesn't take one lesson to learn that speeding kills. We all know it but yet still have the old "it will never happen to me" mentality....


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## contemporary (24 Oct 2006)

sweeping statements like lets put all provo licence holders off the road is complete nonsense, how would the public transport system cope with all these people, how would people who had to move out of the city get to work without cars? 

speed restrictions is also rubbsih, if these lads are willing to drive at 100mph plus as it is do you think they will just go "oh i better slow down now they have lowered the limit?" hardly.

What about the full licence holder who is driving from dublin to cork on the n8 and gets stuck behind 3 L drivers driving 80kmh, he speeds up and overtakes them, risky? you bet and when a family is wiped out because someone was held up for 20 minutes behind a Learner what are we going to do then.

look at the dreadful n6 road from kinnegad to rochford bridge (plenty more like that too) we are going to expect our most inexperienced drivers drive something like that and force them off the dual carriageway, that will really lower deaths alright

5 young lads sadly lost their lives however knee gerk reactions are no what is called for, a more visable garda presence on the roads, they dont need to be doing speed checks, their mere presence makes people think twice. Better roads, and education

Think about this, Religion is now a leaving cert subject, how about drivers education and road safety being a taught and compulsory leaving cert subject as opposed to some of the nonsense like religion or (dare I say it) Irish being a leaving cert subject. I would like my kids to leave school with a full driving licence and an understanding of road safety rather than having a deeper understanding of Allah.


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## Sunny (24 Oct 2006)

contemporary said:


> 5 young lads sadly lost their lives however knee gerk reactions are no what is called for, a more visable garda presence on the roads, they dont need to be doing speed checks, their mere presence makes people think twice. Better roads, and education


 
Agree with everything you say but I still don't understand why an increased Garda presence is the only way to make people think twice. The real deterrent to speeding and drink driving should be the fact that you could kill yourself or even worse kill someone elses loved one, as proved at the weekend. The fear of getting caught by the authorities and fined or penalty points should is nothing compared to that. Maybe I am just dreaming of an ideal world...


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## Dowee (24 Oct 2006)

michaelm said:


> IMHO all provisional licence holders should be put off the road.



With the current situation this is a completely unworkable suggestion. At present you have to wait a year to sit your test. My other half applied for a test in Nov '04, did the test in Oct '05 and failed. She reapplied and is still waiting to sit it again. Maybe if this ridiculous situation was addressed and you could do your test a few weeks after applying then you could have a case for putting them off the road but until then.........


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## mell61 (24 Oct 2006)

Well in addition to more police presence on the roads covering the current legal driving requirements, we need our judges to wake up and smell the coffee...  In the past month how many driver have walked away from court without penalty points, because 150kph wasn't 'dangerous driving'. 

Basically we're now paying the price for lack of interest in driving skills for the past 20 years, suddenly we're in a bouyant economy with every kid able to buy a car, a testing system that can't provide tests in a timely manner (assuming of course all L drivers are actually applying), a government dithering over how to regulate the current state of chaos, and drivers who know they have a better chance of alien abduction than being caught for breaking the law, and no legal requirement for any instructors to even be trained .

We should introduce a learner permit, no instructor = no driving!   No driving on main roads unless as part of your lesson, limit the engine size for the first 1-2 years, automatic blocking of insurance if caught driving without the legally required instructor / qualified driver, automatically retake test if involved in any accident within the first 1-2 years of getting the test.   
For driver with current licenses they should also be made to retake their test if found to have committed motoring offences, and as above no license = no driving!

Look at countries like Sweden where they made a bold statement that they want to eliminate deaths on the roads, whereas our own good politicians feel its all working well if we manage to get through a weekend without a death!


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## michaelm (24 Oct 2006)

contemporary said:


> sweeping statements like lets put all provo licence holders off the road is complete nonsense, how would the public transport system cope with all these people, how would people who had to move out of the city get to work without cars?


Easy there big fella .  I'm not suggesting that provisional licence holders are put off the roads overnight.  But removing provisional licence holders from the roads should be the goal, of course the wait for a test would need to be brought down to something reasonable first, maybe 3 or 4 weeks.  There is no God given right to drive; only qualified drivers should be allowed to use the roads.





contemporary said:


> speed restrictions is also rubbsih, if these lads are willing to drive at 100mph plus as it is do you think they will just go "oh i better slow down now they have lowered the limit?" hardly.


Speed restrictions for newly qualified, inexperienced, drivers is an entirely reasonable suggestion.





contemporary said:


> What about the full licence holder who is driving from dublin to cork on the n8 and gets stuck behind 3 L drivers driving 80kmh, he speeds up and overtakes them, risky? you bet and when a family is wiped out because someone was held up for 20 minutes behind a Learner what are we going to do then.


Not everyone drives on the limit, I often do less than the allowed limit.  It's maybe an unlikely and/or dramatic example, try 3 tractors; taking my suggestion they would be R drivers not L's and if they were properly taught then each would leave enough space to the car in front for others to safely pass.


contemporary said:


> look at the dreadful n6 road from kinnegad to rochford bridge (plenty more like that too) we are going to expect our most inexperienced drivers drive something like that and force them off the dual carriageway, that will really lower deaths alright


Agreed, many roads are terrible.  Who want to force inexperienced drivers onto back roads?





contemporary said:


> 5 young lads sadly lost their lives however knee gerk reactions are no what is called for, a more visable garda presence on the roads, they dont need to be doing speed checks, their mere presence makes people think twice. Better roads, and education


On the off chance that you are referring to my previous post as 'knee gerk' I'd clarify that my thoughts on the issue are long held and have nothing to do with the tragic events in Monaghan.


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## Glenbhoy (24 Oct 2006)

mell61 said:


> In the past month how many driver have walked away from court without penalty points, because 150kph wasn't 'dangerous driving'.


I doubt if any have - people have not lost their licences for this speed though, and in fairness, on a motorway, chances are this is not dangerous driving.


> We should introduce a learner permit, no instructor = no driving! No driving on main roads unless as part of your lesson, limit the engine size for the first 1-2 years, automatic blocking of insurance if caught driving without the legally required instructor / qualified driver, automatically retake test if involved in any accident within the first 1-2 years of getting the test.
> For driver with current licenses they should also be made to retake their test if found to have committed motoring offences, and as above no license = no driving!


Agree completely.
But as ubiquitous said, we can't blame politicians for all our road deaths, people must take responsibility for their actions too.


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## mell61 (24 Oct 2006)

I've cut and pasted the article below from Unison (copyright with them etc...).
So it does appear that some judges don't consider twice the speed limit on a single lane road to be 'dangerous driving'.     And unfortunately they are not alone, lots of drivers have the same attitude... after all *they *have complete control of their cars!

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]*Second speed fine scandal*[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]*Gay Byrne 'utterly horrified' over 198kph racer's €200 penalty

 *[/FONT]Mell, Reproducting entire articles from unison.ie is in breach of that site's terms and conditions and is also in breach of AAM's Posting Guidelines....aj
[FONT=Verdana, Arial] 

[/FONT]


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## Glenbhoy (24 Oct 2006)

Mell, what I meant to say was that the drivers involved presumably still got penalty points as they were speeding.  They did not lose their licences however and given the antics, most people probably feel that they should have.


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## mell61 (24 Oct 2006)

Sorry about that, I missed that on the T&Cs

But from the article on 16-sept there were no penalty points issues, just a fine, so I'd say that it does appear that there seems to be a 'fluid' interpretation of what constitutes dangerous driving.
But lets admit it, if you do more than 20 miles per day on Irish roads, you will easily see 2-3 incidents each day that could so easily result in crashes.
Its easy to point the finger at L drivers, and I have done it myself, but overall we are just completely oblivious to the fact that we all make mistakes, its always the other guy!    I've just been in France / Germany for a few days and its a revelation to see good driving... actually overtaking in the 'overtaking' lane, sliding back into the slower lane once you pass the slower vehicle, keeping reasonable distances, not flashing / blowing the horn when a vehicle moves into your lane....   
Its amazing just how complacent we are about the bad habit we all exhibit daily.


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## Joe1234 (24 Oct 2006)

delgirl said:


> I wonder how many of the 17 year olds killed on the roads this previous week were learner drivers



Just for the record, the 5 people killed in Monaghan were between 19 and 27, and only 2 of them were drivers.


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## delgirl (24 Oct 2006)

No-one is blaming all the accidents on the road on learner drivers. This thread is about learner drivers and that's what we're discussing as they do contribute significantly to accidents and road deaths.

Here's a very interesting article from 2001, which appeared in the Indo (registration may be required), quoting statistics from the NRA:

_"Young people were largely responsible in 83pc of fatal accidents in which they are involved, 70pc responsible in serious accidents and 55pc responsible in minor accidents."_

_"Provisional licence holders are more likely to have an accident that full licence holders." _

The NRA published these statistics in 2001, yet absolutely nothing was done about them.

Provisional Licence holders should not be on the road unaccompanied. They should not travel on motorways, unless driving instructor accompanied motorway lessons are introduced and they should not be permitted to drive high-powered or souped-up cars. This is not only for the protection of the general public and other road users, but also for the protection of the young person with misplaced feelings of invincibity. 

Times have changed and in more recent years the phenomonen of 'boy racers' has appeared, where young men feel they have to undertake more and more daring stunts to impress their peers and females.

This has progressed from noisy exhausts to burning donuts on the roads and on to the latest craze, which I witnessed last Friday evening at my local petrol station.

Four cars were reving and screeching around the car park at the petrol station and then I saw flames coming out of the rear of one of the vehicles.

The petrol station owner was on the phone to the Guards, fearing that his pumps may well go up in smoke, as I went in to pay for my petrol. When he had finished, I asked him what they were doing. He told me that they had attached flame throwers to the exhausts of their vehicles and this was the latest dangerous craze. 

The Guards said they would come as soon as they could, but that the cars would probably be gone by the time they got there. That's the attitude of the local station.

While there's no enforcement and such a lackadaisical attitude from the Gardai, nothing will change and more young people will be killed.


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## Swallows (24 Oct 2006)

Who is going to police the speed limit on country roads? no one. Something needs to be done about the state of the roads which are shocking. There are no crash barriers which is why so many cars end up in fields. There are a whole range of things that contribute to so many deaths on the roads. Where is Gay Byrne? I dont hear anything about him any more.


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## blindjustice (24 Oct 2006)

Hasnt anyone noticed that most of these fatal accidents are at weekends usually friday night saturday mornings and saturday nights sunday mornings.
Drink driving and I know this for a fact. Its not about L drivers. They are just the scapegoats.
The bloody traffic corp doesnt work a 24hr shift neither do the community police and BELIEVE IT OR NOT NEITHER DO THE ARMED DETECTIVES. Leaving only a skeleton crew to do all the work during the night. (in some areas without armed assistance)
This crew is whats called the regular unit(work that most guards hate - they get ALL of the workload they even call themselves MULES). They just dont have the manpower on these units. If the traffic unit worked 24hrs too maybe you would see a difference.
The regular units out the country also have to cover areas as large as half counties. (remember most our police stations are part time not 24hr ones).
LEARNER DRIVERS ARE SCAPEGOATS FOR A DIFFERENT PROBLEM - DONT BE FOOLED BY POLITICIANS OR BY TOP GARDAI WHO AFTERALL ARE PROMOTED BY THE DAIL MEANING IF THEY ARE NOT YES MEN THEY WILL NOT FURTHER THEIR CAREERS.


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## liteweight (25 Oct 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> How would Garda enforcement stop five young lads playing chicken at up to 150km/h on an isolated country road?



Not a hope in hell of anyone stopping them! Slightly off topic but I was horrified by what the priest said at the funeral ...we throw ipods etc. etc at our children but don't give them our time... I thought it was a totally inappropriate time to air his views and felt very sorry for the parents who had to sit through a lecture at their child's funeral.


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## liteweight (25 Oct 2006)

foxylady said:


> I agree, I too am a learner driver and am sick of the attitude of "fully qualified drivers". What about full licence holders who never sat a test in their life.
> 
> Also if you notice that the majority of these road accidents are on country roads which might suggest the poor condition of these roads as well



I take your point about those who never took a test. I forget how many licenses were handed out but I know my sister got one at the time and wasn't pleased. She wanted to take the test and pass but was not allowed to.

Don't get me started on the condition of our roads, both city and country!


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## gramlab (25 Oct 2006)

Speed, L drivers and young people seems to be the only thing talked about in the media when it comes to road safety.

Bad driving habbits are as much to blame as anything else as these are the root of the problem. When was the last time anybody heard of someone getting pulled for not indicating, faulty lights, incorrect driving on a roundabout, e.t.c

Restricting L drivers to 80kph on roads will only cause more head on collisions. The government needs to have the bottle to bring in major sweeping changes and not worry about the potential vote implications.


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## ney001 (25 Oct 2006)

I think the problem nowadays with learner drivers is that they can afford to buy their car prior to doing their lessons - when I learned to drive I had to learn in my parent's car for a year then they bought me a little mini - about €300 worth which we did up. These learners now have maybe one professional lesson then buy their car because they can afford to.  I know my brother's girlfriend did this - she had one lesson from her dad and bought a brand new Saxo - this girl was driving on the roads but couldn't reverse so she could only park in spaces that she could drive straight out of!   - My friend in Australia learned to drive recently and they have a system similar to that of pilots etc in that you have to have x amount of driving time under your belt before doing your test - I think it was 120 hours driving time, this seems like a much better idea then letting anyone out on the roads.  Another thing that really really annoys me is an upside down or back to front L plate - How in the name of god can you master the rules of the road when you can put a feckin sticker on your car the correct way!


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## Glenbhoy (25 Oct 2006)

blindjustice said:


> Hasnt anyone noticed that most of these fatal accidents are at weekends usually friday night saturday mornings and saturday nights sunday mornings.
> Drink driving and I know this for a fact. Its not about L drivers. They are just the scapegoats.
> LEARNER DRIVERS ARE SCAPEGOATS FOR A DIFFERENT PROBLEM - DONT BE FOOLED BY POLITICIANS OR BY TOP GARDAI WHO AFTERALL ARE PROMOTED BY THE DAIL MEANING IF THEY ARE NOT YES MEN THEY WILL NOT FURTHER THEIR CAREERS.


Learner drivers are not the only problem and drink driving is a probably a huge factor in many cases, but the problem with learner drivers is one thing that can be easily tackled, and (I hate to admit it), but I'm in favour of minister cullens plans on this one.


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## Ron Burgundy (25 Oct 2006)

ney001 said:


> My friend in Australia learned to drive recently and they have a system similar to that of pilots etc in that you have to have x amount of driving time under your belt before doing your test - I think it was 120 hours driving time, this seems like a much better idea then letting anyone out on the roads. Another thing that really really annoys me is an upside down or back to front L plate - How in the name of god can you master the rules of the road when you can put a feckin sticker on your car the correct way!


 
that is on the way in here, ok it will make more money for instructors ( i am one) but i think its a good idea. You will have to prove you have x amount of lessons before you can apply, these must be done with a qualified instructor ( that part is also on the way )

speed restriction is ok before you get stuck behins someone who can only do 80km and and or a 100km road, people get frustrated and accidents happen, so nothing gained.

*education and people taking their own actions into account before blaming the government for everything*,

do the government feed you those pits before you drive ???

do the government make you drive over the speed limit ???

do the government make you use inappropate speeds ???

they do not, but they make it easier for you to do so.......ah sure there are no guards i'll have that extra pint


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## blinkbelle (25 Oct 2006)

ney001 said:


> Another thing that really really annoys me is an upside down or back to front L plate - How in the name of god can you master the rules of the road when you can put a feckin sticker on your car the correct way!


 
Or the little cut out L like how in gods name are you a ment to see that


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## ney001 (25 Oct 2006)

blinkbelle said:


> Or the little cut out L like how in gods name are you a ment to see that



I think that's the point - they're too cool to have big obvious L Plates on the car


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## purplealien (29 Oct 2006)

If everyone in Ireland that has a full licence for more than 5 years were to take their driving test again - half of them would fail!
There should be a law where people have to take a test every three years to make sure everybody is up to scratch.


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## Seagull (1 Nov 2006)

michaelm said:


> Newly qualified drivers should of course display R plates and amongst other things be restricted to a 1.2L car and a max. speed of 80K/H for 2 years. All vehicles should be electronically limited to 130K/H.


Which means that I would need to go out and buy another car. We have one family car, which is a 1.4l hatch. That's hardly a racing car. 
This is all very nice in theory, but I think a reality check is in order.


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## Guest127 (1 Nov 2006)

at 3pm yesterday the gardai parked a gatso van on the dundalk inner relief road ( by - pass to you and me) in a 50kph zone where the most you could normally do anyway would be 60kph if, and its a big if, you got a clear stretch of road. the van was parked on the footpath between the entrance to the coes road ( left hand side ) and the next turn in. van was parked so far in on the ditch that the only intention was to catch anyone  speeding and definitely not deterrance. under normal circumstances they should have been facing a fine for illegal parking on a footpath but they are above that. didnt catch me as I was around the 50 limit anyway and was in the middle of a group of other traffic doing the same speed but I think it was out of order. nobody has been killed on this stretch of road for over 10 years and then it was a drunken driver involved. also the MI is now open taking most ( but not all ) the heavy trucks off this particular stretch of road. just an exercise in revenue gathering. have never seen it parked at night though I have seen it on the opposite side of the road tracking south moving traffic and also over the 'cuchulainn' bridge in the 60kpm  (100m of roadway approx ) metre zone , again with its rear, and camera, facing the traffic coming out of the 100kph zone from  the northern direction.


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## Thirsty (1 Nov 2006)

> 1 in 4 cars with L plate and a single driver


 
one of those could well be me....I'm not going to remove the L plates every time my daughter and I swap over driving!

And speaking of which, it's quite incredible the agressive behaviour of other drivers on the road when they see a small car w. L plates...I've been tail-gated, cut-up, beeped and 'fingered' in the last few days.

Never happened in my own car...


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## bskinti (5 Nov 2006)

cagney said:


> Did any one see what said in newspaper tonight?
> 
> 
> Learner drivers and those just qualified will be automatically banned from driving if they get six penalty points instead of the normal 12 points. Drivers who pass the test face the six point ban for a further two years.
> * L-drivers will not be Etc Etc Etc


 
R plates, stopping L drivers from learning banning them from N roads This post will be deleted if not edited immediately when was there a COO? Who is our dictator now? or have I been asleep and missed the take over, bringing in laws like this, why don't we put them in R Blocks (_H Blocks_) or something we will be told next, 
We hear about black spots, so go fix them and do away with the black spots Frustrated drivers been held up due to slow traffic Fine the slow driver, Pedestrian hit, €50 fine if caught in dark without an arm band, Boy racers with souped up Clio's there are only Cleo's with wide wheels and skirts still only a 1.1, a standard Clio would leave it sitting I don't know the answer but with laws like this why did so many die to get rid of Hitler


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## Guest109 (5 Nov 2006)

i see that next year a few additions are to be added to the theory test in the UK, 15 new eco questions are being added and at same time rising the cost by £7 to£28.50


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## Thirsty (6 Nov 2006)

"COO" = coup d'Etat ?


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## elefantfresh (6 Nov 2006)

Its my belief that its not all about provisional/full licence etc but about enforcement as has been stated by a huge % of this thread. Anyone who drives around this country on a regular basis will see that your odds of being caught for stupid driving of whatever nature, are incredibly slim. People will NOT take responsibility for their actions - that is a fact and has been proven over and over again - so that in my opinion is a wasted call. Hit people where it hurts - fines/bans etc - and do it by enforcement. Put those cops on the roads where the accidents happen. This is not rocket science. This government has proven time and again that they cannot sort this problem when really its not that complex. As mentioned above, how many L drivers do you see everyday on the M50? Tons!!
A 19 year old kid may belive he's invincible but if you take the car from him for 2 years maybe, just maybe you've saved his life....


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## Joe1234 (6 Nov 2006)

elefantfresh said:


> A 19 year old kid may belive he's invincible but if you take the car from him for 2 years maybe, just maybe you've saved his life....



His and maybe others too


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## foxylady (7 Nov 2006)

Kildrought said:


> one of those could well be me....I'm not going to remove the L plates every time my daughter and I swap over driving!
> 
> And speaking of which, it's quite incredible the agressive behaviour of other drivers on the road when they see a small car w. L plates...I've been tail-gated, cut-up, beeped and 'fingered' in the last few days.
> 
> Never happened in my own car...


 

I definitely have to agree about the aggressive behaviour of non learner drivers. As a learner myself I have come across all of the above and think its absolutley awful. Its a hard enough thing to do in the first place without idiots like this putting you off your driving, in fact this kind of behaviour is what causes the accidents in the first place.


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## Ron Burgundy (7 Nov 2006)

just something i noticed recently, 

i had a girl out recently doing lessons in my driving school car, now she is only starting to drive and ain't perfect. She stalled the car at a junction twice in the lesson and the driver behind waited and was fine.

fast forward a week later when i took her out in her own car for the first time and she stalled once more, the driver behind beeped and flashed the lights.

No time for the learner driver in their own car yet in mine all the patience in the world.

this is not the only time i have noticed this.

remember even senna had to learn to drive, have some patience for learner drivers, this girl in question wanted to quit and never drive again. Some are nervous enought without other drivers beeping horns etc.


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## blinkbelle (7 Nov 2006)

IMO everybody has to learn how to drive.

Simple answer is there isnt enough cops on the beat checking the people driving cars asking for liciences to check if they have full/prov whether they have L plates up, or a full licience holder with them.

I know alot of people who have prov liciences and dont have L plates up.  In my time of driving never have I been asked to produce my licience.  

I feel sorry for learner drivers as they tend to get the stick for everything and when its clearly not the case half the time.  

Ive been stuck behind old people doing 30mph in a 60 etc.  Full licience holders are well at least half of them a disgrace speeding on by doin 80/90 in ther 06 D merc.  I dont care if any of ye think im been snobby im NOT its the truth. 

Learners have a L plate on there car for a reason there learning I always give them space etc and am patient behind them because I too had to learn how to drive.

And Ron like the girl your teaching I too wanted to give up but I didnt and certainly wouldnt because of other feckers beeping. 

And overtaking dangerously causes accident, speeding, drink driving. And no cops out in these country roads where most of these fatel accidents happen on bad twisty roads.

I could write here all day but wont must have lunch!!


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## foxylady (7 Nov 2006)

Ron Burgundy said:


> just something i noticed recently,
> 
> i had a girl out recently doing lessons in my driving school car, now she is only starting to drive and ain't perfect. She stalled the car at a junction twice in the lesson and the driver behind waited and was fine.
> 
> ...


 
That girls sounds exactly like me. I was out driving last night and as wa going down a very narrow road, where i stopped to give way to an oncoming taxi, when I realised the car behind me was trying to overtake me instead of just waiting, this then caused me to conk out as I have on several occassion and when I got home all I thought was I think I will give up on this driving lark, cos my nerves just keep getting the better of me. this wasnt the first time I had impatient drivers behind me either.

I am trying to abide by the rules of the road and this is what i'm up against, it is very disheartening.


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## Ancutza (7 Nov 2006)

I've just returned to Romania after a 10 day break in Ireland with my wife.

Will someone please tell me when the Irish authorities will introduce mandatory driver training in the use of motorways as is done in, say, Germany? It's ridiculous to ban a learner from the motorway on the morning of their test only to tell them in the afternoon, on passing, that they can drive wherever they like. They are not at fault here. It's the crap system which allows them to do this

The way the Irish use motorways is just a plain disgrace. Not letting people off 'on ramps' forcing them to come to a grinding halt and occupying the outside lane whilst doing ridiculously low speeds with the 1/2 lanes to their left empty being the two biggest abuses.

And to the 30-ish bobbed blonde girl with the navy 06-D Golf doing 60kmph in the outside lane of the M7 (with two empty lanes on your inside) on the approach to the Green Isle Hotel last Friday night.....Did you pass your test THAT DAY???


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## Eurofan (7 Nov 2006)

The learning process is shockingly bad here. We had American friends of ours over last year (longer?) when the lists for the driving test were newsworthy. They couldn't get over the fact that you could _drive_ to your test yourself, fail and then _still_ drive home afterwards!

The learning process (and testing) here is far too preoccupied with the mechanics of operating the car alone to the detriment of the actual driving experience; traffic, pedestrains, weather conditions, type of car, road conditions, looking ahead, appropriate speed etc. etc.


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## Seagull (8 Nov 2006)

Ancutza said:


> Will someone please tell me when the Irish authorities will introduce mandatory driver training in the use of motorways as is done in, say, Germany? It's ridiculous to ban a learner from the motorway on the morning of their test only to tell them in the afternoon, on passing, that they can drive wherever they like. They are not at fault here.


I'd have to agree with this. Motorway driving is very different to driving on regular roads. It's a skill that needs to be taught. At a bare minimum, learner drivers should be allowed on the motorway with an instructor.


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## Ron Burgundy (8 Nov 2006)

this issue has been raised with the minister by insturctors.


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## Vanilla (8 Nov 2006)

It's not just learner drivers that other drivers have no patience for- I find it all the time, and I'm not a learner driver. I have years of experience driving and I think I'm a fairly safe driver. I've never caused a crash, although I have been crashed into. I often experience 'road rage' type incidents. I'm not a particularly fast driver, but then I'm not a particularly slow one either. I remember a few years back in Galway I was driving my then bosses car up one of those multi-storey car parks. His car was much bigger than I was used to driving and I admit I was going particularly slowly up the car park because I was afraid of damaging it. All the way up a man in the car behind me just leaned on the horn. By the time I got to one of the upper storeys where there was some parking left I was so frazzled I had to stop the car and ask my boss to take over. I wonder what was so important that that man couldn't waste one minute longer behind my car? When I looked back at him his face was puce with rage. 

I often remember years ago one of my aunts who has since died was living in Dublin and we used to go up and visit her quite often and she would drive us here and there in the city. At the time I wasn't used to all the various lanes etc in a city and I admired her expertise. But what I admired the most was that she was a very patient driver. If someone cut across her, she didn't even blink, just slowed down to allow them to do it safely. If someone was in the wrong lane she was the first to allow them out in front of her. If a bus or lorry wanted to pull out she would allow them out. She was a real lady in all her thoughts and actions. Wish there was more like her on the roads.


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## liteweight (8 Nov 2006)

When my OH drives my daughter's car he always comments on the idiots who have no patience simply because of the 'L' on the car. No one toots their horn or tries to get around him when he's driving his own car.


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## Rois (9 Nov 2006)

*Learner Driver Laws are silly & not enforced*

More young deaths on the road. Because learner drivers can freely drive on provisional licences (though in law they should be accompanied this is too rarely enforced); there is a culture of being able to drive as soon as you are old enough whether you have actually taken any lessons on how to drive; insurance companies will insure you so long as you pay enough; gardai and law enforcers turn a blind eye; parents don't seem to care - they actually buy young Johnny a car for his 18th. 

Surely we should have learnt a lesson by now.


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## SineWave (9 Nov 2006)

*Re: Learner Driver Laws are silly & not enforced*

It is also worrying that there seems to be an acceptance that the right to drive is a human-right of sorts.

There are people who are just not capable handling a +1ton mechanically propelled vehicle, and still being expected to avoid other ones and people.

On the learner driver front I think there might be an incentive for the definate disaster-drivers to give up the driving if there was an enforced grade of L-Plate, showing for example, how many years they have been on an L-Plate, or how many tests they have failed.


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## blinkbelle (9 Nov 2006)

I just want to mention two things that happened me yesterday.

1. Main road very busy met a car overtaking on a bend I had to swing to hard shoulder to avoid I flashed at him and what did he do stuck his two fingers up at me.

And 2. was coming out of town last night speed limit 40mph which I was doing this girl/boy racer comes flylin up my hole out of no where and contined on my hole untill I gave a little tap on the brake, just enough to so he could see my brake lights he backed of not for long though. Little ***** must have been doin 60 70 like just outside a town, beside a college aswell where theres allways students (half drunk at night) trying to cross the road.

anways rant over


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## ClubMan (9 Nov 2006)

blinkbelle said:


> untill I gave a little tap on the brake, just enough to so he could see my brake lights he backed of not for long though.


That silly habit of some motorists is a good way to cause an accident.


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## blinkbelle (9 Nov 2006)

I realise that clubman but I was so annoyed at the time plus he had full lights on blinding the crap out of me, like does he/she not know not to have them on in a town.


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## Miles (9 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> That silly habit of some motorists is a good way to cause an accident.


 
And your saying that not maintaining the gap wont cause an accident??

The instructor on the hibernian ignition course advised to tip the break to force the person behind to back off!


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## annR (9 Nov 2006)

There is something so intrinsically dumb about beeping at a Learner Driver!  What do they think they will accomplish with this?  I think it's a very bad sign.  Anyone who just mindlessly vents their rage like that must be dangerous on the road.

This might sound daft but I think the only way for anyone to individually change anything is to show some example.  I genuinely believe that if you let someone out, or show some courtesy, that person is more likely to show that same courtesy to someone else.  Unless they're a completely selfish ape of course.


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## Ron Burgundy (9 Nov 2006)

Miles said:


> And your saying that not maintaining the gap wont cause an accident??
> 
> The instructor on the hibernian ignition course advised to tip the break to force the person behind to back off!


 
never never never, just pull over out of their way and let the fool drive off. Doing that is a sure way for someone to cause an accident.


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## zag (9 Nov 2006)

Ron - I understand the point you are making, but looked at objectively - brakes and brake lights are there for a reason.  The reason is to slow your vehicle and to inform other behind you that you are slowing.  That is exactly what the driver in front is doing in this situation.

Pulling over and letting them through is only moving the problem elsewhere - it gives no cause to the other driver so slow down or modify their behaviour.

z


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## Ron Burgundy (9 Nov 2006)

but what reason are you putting on your brakes ???

if there was an accident and you said eh i put the brakes on casue he was driving too close to me, imagine what a judge or garda would say to that ??? 

you think casue you put on your brakes he/she will never do it again, your only putting your own safety and your car at risk.


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## jdwex (9 Nov 2006)

Ron Burgundy said:


> but what reason are you putting on your brakes ???
> 
> if there was an accident and you said eh i put the brakes on casue he was driving too close to me, imagine what a judge or garda would say to that ???
> 
> you think casue you put on your brakes he/she will never do it again, your only putting your own safety and your car at risk.


 
I was told if a car is  too close to me  to gradually slow down and when safe pull over..


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## dontaskme (9 Nov 2006)

Seagull said:


> I'd have to agree with this. Motorway driving is very different to driving on regular roads. It's a skill that needs to be taught. At a bare minimum, learner drivers should be allowed on the motorway with an instructor.


in Germany, motorway driving is one of the compulsory lessons. AFAIK, it is also tested in the driving test.


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## redchariot (11 Nov 2006)

It drives me mad to see people picking up a provisional licence after passing a theory test (which anyone can pass easily with a bit of studying) and just hop into a car with no lessons and on the road

First thing that needs to be enforced is the requirement of a qualified driver being in the car and the second provisional licence rule where the driver can go on their own should be scrapped. We are a joke to the rest of Europe that this is permitted. 

In the north, all L-drivers can't drive above 45mph anywhere and for a further year after the test this still applies and is enforced strictly. A similar rule should be also applied here.


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## Ancutza (12 Nov 2006)

Red, all very good and well but that doesn't eliminate the lunacy of not teaching learners how to use a motorway.  I'd lump the UK in with us in that they don't teach it either.

Thr correct approach IMO is to enforce the 'accompaniment' law AND to teach them to use motorways.


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## Johnny1 (25 Feb 2007)

michaelm said:


> IMHO all provisional licence holders should be put off the road. .


 Thats a wandering statement how are they going to learn if they can't drive on the road. Didn't you have to learn yourself?


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## michaelm (26 Feb 2007)

Johnny1 said:


> Thats a wandering statement how are they going to learn if they can't drive on the road. Didn't you have to learn yourself?


Not wishing to question your lexicon but it think 'wandering' is the wrong word.  You're quoting post #16 but had you read on to post #22 you might have seen my clarification, quoted below . .





michaelm said:


> I'm not suggesting that provisional licence holders are put off the roads overnight.  But removing provisional licence holders from the roads should be the goal, of course the wait for a test would need to be brought down to something reasonable first, maybe 3 or 4 weeks.  There is no God given right to drive; only qualified drivers should be allowed to use the roads.


To answer your question, yes I did learn to drive, 25 lessons with an Instructor in a properly equipped car - then passed the test.  Ireland is one of very few countries that allow unqualified drivers, and those who have just failed a test, onto the roads.


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## SlurrySlump (26 Feb 2007)

annR said:


> There is something so intrinsically dumb about beeping at a Learner Driver! What do they think they will accomplish with this? I think it's a very bad sign. Anyone who just mindlessly vents their rage like that must be dangerous on the road.
> 
> This might sound daft but I think the only way for anyone to individually change anything is to show some example. I genuinely believe that if you let someone out, or show some courtesy, that person is more likely to show that same courtesy to someone else. Unless they're a completely selfish ape of course.


 
Just because a car has an L sign on it doesn't mean to say that the driver is a learner.  Many parents use their own cars to teach their children to drive. Many elderly people and "bad" drivers put L signs on their cars to give the impression that they are learner drivers and to put other drivers off beeping them.


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## ney001 (26 Feb 2007)

SlurrySlump said:


> Just because a car has an L sign on it doesn't mean to say that the driver is a learner.  Many parents use their own cars to teach their children to drive. Many elderly people and "bad" drivers put L signs on their cars to give the impression that they are learner drivers and to put other drivers off beeping them.



I have to say I cannot imagine any qualified driver putting L-plates on their car, with the exception of course of those who teach their kids etc in their own cars.  I personally think bad drivers don't realise that they are bad drivers - that's what makes them so bad, I know quite a few terrible drivers but not one of them would put an L-plate on their car after they had passed their test


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## z107 (26 Feb 2007)

> that's what makes them so bad, I know quite a few terrible drivers but not one of them would put an L-plate on their car after they had passed their test



I must be the exception that proves the rule.
I kept my L-Plates on for months after passing the test. I was a hopeless driver, and I don't know how I even passed in the first place.


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## SlurrySlump (27 Feb 2007)

You have to remember that there are lots of elderly people driving around who never had to sit a test. Just look at the antics of them as they look for a parking space outside the SuperValu Mount Merrion or Frascati Centre in Blackrock, Dublin. You hear the roar of the engine, before you see them, as they ride the clutch. They all have dents and scrapes on the side of their cars. With all the rules and regulations for the rest of us I wonder should those people who never had to sit a test be called in now to sit one.


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## annR (27 Feb 2007)

They should also get a proper eye test done with someone who doesn't know them personally and who has no problem telling them they can't drive anymore.  No offence to doctors but some of them are a little lenient in this way I think especially in local communities.


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## Johnny1 (3 Mar 2007)

michaelm said:


> To answer your question, yes I did learn to drive, 25 lessons with an Instructor in a properly equipped car - then passed the test.  Ireland is one of very few countries that allow unqualified drivers, and those who have just failed a test, onto the roads.


 Where did you drive while taking your 25 lesson's?


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## gipimann (3 Mar 2007)

A change was announced the other day for learner motorcyclists - they will not get a provisional licence, but a learner's permit, and only be allowed to drive on the road after 16 hours of recognised training.  (to be introduced soon).  At the mo, 16 yr olds can buy the "50cc hedge trimmer" and take off.  Those of us who are older can just buy the bigger "hedge trimmer"!  As a biker I'm only too aware of how vulnerable it can be, especially if you don't know what you're doing, but why bikes only and not all new drivers regardless of vehicle?


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## Marie (3 Mar 2007)

*Learner Drivers*



Eurofan said:


> The learning process is shockingly bad here. We had American friends of ours over last year (longer?) when the lists for the driving test were newsworthy. They couldn't get over the fact that you could _drive_ to your test yourself, fail and then _still_ drive home afterwards!
> 
> The learning process (and testing) here is far too preoccupied with the mechanics of operating the car alone to the detriment of the actual driving experience; traffic, pedestrains, weather conditions, type of car, road conditions, looking ahead, appropriate speed etc. etc.


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## michaelm (5 Mar 2007)

Johnny1 said:


> Where did you drive while taking your 25 lesson's?


I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here.  I did no other driving at the time; until I passed the Test I had only ever driven with an Instructor.


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## podgerodge (5 Mar 2007)

Saw a "Baby on Board" sticker this morning together with an L plate.

What a joke.

Whatever about learner drivers driving on their own how can it be legal to let an unqualified driver take children/babies as passengers?  Is that not putting the life of children in danger?


Edit - and yes, it was a learner driver, not someone just 'driving the car' which was normally used by an L driver, she could not have been qualifed that was obvious enough.


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## Joe1234 (5 Mar 2007)

podgerodge said:


> Saw a "Baby on Board" sticker this morning together with an L plate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You only saw the L plate, the driver and the baby on board sign, but you didn't see a baby?  Could she be learning to drive in, say her sisters car, who happens to have a baby?


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## podgerodge (8 Mar 2007)

Joe1234 said:


> You only saw the L plate, the driver and the baby on board sign, but you didn't see a baby?  Could she be learning to drive in, say her sisters car, who happens to have a baby?



why do people always try to find the most unlikely option?  Do you drive Joe?  If you do with any frequency,  you will know that there are plenty of L drivers around driving their kids to schools / creches /shops etc.  They mightn't all have a "baby on board" sticker but generally do have the baby.  

Unless of course they are all qualifed drivers bringing their kids to school in their learner sisters car.  Hmmm.


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## Joe1234 (8 Mar 2007)

podgerodge said:


> why do people always try to find the most unlikely option?  Do you drive Joe?  If you do with any frequency,  you will know that there are plenty of L drivers around driving their kids to schools / creches /shops etc.  They mightn't all have a "baby on board" sticker but generally do have the baby.
> 
> Unless of course they are all qualifed drivers bringing their kids to school in their learner sisters car.  Hmmm.



Yes, I do drive, every day.  I do know that there are pleanty of L drivers driving their kids about.

My query was, "did you see a baby"?


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## podgerodge (9 Mar 2007)

Joe1234 said:


> Yes, I do drive, every day.  I do know that there are pleanty of L drivers driving their kids about.
> 
> My query was, "did you see a baby"?




No, I didn't look in the window to check.  I'm sure you will agree it was a distinct possibility given that you yourself have seen plenty of learner drivers driving their kids about. That was the point I was trying to make.


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## Joe1234 (9 Mar 2007)

podgerodge said:


> No, I didn't look in the window to check.  I'm sure you will agree it was a distinct possibility given that you yourself have seen plenty of learner drivers driving their kids about. That was the point I was trying to make.



Of course it is a possibility.  I know learner drivers, who have kids, and I know that the only way of getting them to school, is for the learner parent to drive them.  One such person that I am thinking of is a man in his mid 30's.


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## Johnny1 (13 Mar 2007)

michaelm said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here. I did no other driving at the time; until I passed the Test I had only ever driven with an Instructor.


 Presuming that you weren't able to drive before the lesson's you must be one hell of a driver, 25 hours driving with instructor no practice driving and passed your test first go.


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## ragazza (14 Mar 2007)

Johnny1 said:


> Presuming that you weren't able to drive before the lesson's you must be one hell of a driver, 25 hours driving with instructor no practice driving and passed your test first go.


 
I did the exact same as MichaelM.  I had never driven a car before, did lessons with an instructor, didnt do any extra practise on a non-instructor car, and passed the test first go. 
I think its the best way to learn, since you never have the chance to pick up bad habits, and I learnt the correct way to parallel park, be aware of surrounding, lane control etc.


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## michaelm (14 Mar 2007)

Johnny1 said:


> Presuming that you weren't able to drive before the lesson's you must be one hell of a driver, 25 hours driving with instructor no practice driving and passed your test first go.


I didn't actually pass first go.  I did a test after 20 lessons but failed due to being too casual on the hill start (no way was it a hill ); in hindsight I'm glad that I didn't pass first time.  Anyway, I did another five lessons before my second test and passed no problem.


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## Thirsty (17 Mar 2007)

> parents don't seem to care - they actually buy young Johnny a car for his 18th


 
I bought my daughter a car for her 18th birthday....I really don't see how that therefore means I don't care?


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## Irish Fire (18 Mar 2007)

We are all screaming for more Gardai on the roads "This will stop the carnage"..... As said by others the 17 - 20 year old boys (and girls lately....yes they speed too they are not bloody angels and i really think we will be having this discussion about girls in the next year or so) are nutters on the road, the other day I was driving on the M7 I overtook a car and pulled back into the driving lane and as I did a young male driver pulled in behind me and undertook me in the hard shoulder we exited the motorway at the same junction and the abuse this muppet gave me was unreal (and this is now in the hands of the Gardai). Anway back to my point, the Gardai need to stop "shooting fish in a barrell" and redeploy to the "back roads" where the majority of this lunactic driving occurs we need to report these drivers for crazy driving we also need to tell the parents of children of these young drivers (somebody who knows these kids must know the parents as well) ok I know that it may open a can of worms with the parents but at the end of the day if it saves a life who cares, we see everyday of the week in the government is doing nothing about this major problem in Ireland, I'm sorry folks but it's not only up to the Government it's up to us it's typical of we irish to pass the bloody book. It's time we did something about this ourselves not stop passing the book... To suggest that we put speed limiters on cars is ok but you have to allow how may trucks have speed limiters and are able to drive over their allowed speed (it's easy to bypass thses units  and you know if it can be done it will be done) yes the R plates are a good idea although the idea of the driving test needs to be updated."oh yeah I can do a hill start and a three point turn so I can drive on a motorway". Ithink what has been forgotten here is that our roads have changed so much in the last 10 years or so and nothing has changed with regard to testing and disipline with the people on our roads both young and old, how many mature drivers in the country drive within the speed limit? ( they all do!! yeah right!!!) we need to look at ourselves first folks before we start to blame the laws and government..............


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## Seagull (20 Mar 2007)

I still find it ludicrous that there is a flat ban on learner drivers on the motorways. There should be a *requirement* to do a minimum number of hours motorway driving with an instructor. Motorway driving is an acquired skill, and is very different from driving on regular town roads.


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## Josey Wales (20 Mar 2007)

Seagull said:


> I still find it ludicrous that there is a flat ban on learner drivers on the motorways. There should be a *requirement* to do a minimum number of hours motorway driving with an instructor. Motorway driving is an acquired skill, and is very different from driving on regular town roads.


 
Yeah I would agree with that. I just passed my driving test the other day and now I'm free to go on the motorway. I just think that it's funny that I was banned from using the motorway on the way to the test and then I could have used it back home without ever having any practice with a more experienced driver.

Instructors should be able to take learners out on the motorway and it should be included in the test. While they're at it they could drop the reversing around corners section.

I decided not to be reckless and took the longer way home.


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## Purple (20 Mar 2007)

Josey Wales said:


> While there at it they could drop the reversing around corners section.


 I agree, I think you should be arrested for dangerous driving if you are seen reversing around a corner.


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## Joe1234 (21 Mar 2007)

Seagull said:


> There should be a *requirement* to do a minimum number of hours motorway driving with an instructor.



Good point, but not currently practical as I would have drive for almost an hour to get to a motorway!!!


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## z107 (21 Mar 2007)

The Road Safety Authority have just uploaded an instructional video to compliment the Rules of the Road;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Vw402IaII

Looks like much of it was filmed on the road from Dublin to Kerry.


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## jmayo (29 Mar 2007)

As for doing a minimum number of hours motorway driving with instructor... Would driving from the Tallaght ramp onto the M50 upto the Lucan exit during rush hour (well actually any time bar night) count as your 2 hours? Ok you would only have done 4/5 miles but you would have your hours up.  I have driven on major roads in most of the major western world countries barring Japan and I haven't come across the propensity to hog the overtaking lane as much as is done in this country. Actually in Australia and NZ they have the following signs "Keep Left unless overtaking" along dual carriageways.  Did anybody ever think about putting them up around here????


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## sonnyikea (30 Mar 2007)

I saw at the weekend that the N7 eastbound (or is it Northbound?) had a similar sign up. Ignored by many I have to add.


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## CCOVICH (30 Mar 2007)

The habit of hogging the overtaking/fast lane was fairly prevalent on the M1 last Sunday night, an annoying development as I felt this was largely confined to the M50.


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