# Dentist charge more than website listed price



## Poc-ar-buille (23 Jan 2020)

Folks,

I'm getting some treatment from my dentist.

I noticed one of the charges is more than the advertised price.

The difference not huge

And only about 2% of the overall treatment cost.

I queried this and was told this is normal.

The website price of a guideline.

And individual can be charged slightly differently.

Is this acceptable?

Would you be surprised the dentist didn't concede the amount?

I can let it go. But I just think they should honour the website price. And correct it on their website.

Thanks


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## Palerider (23 Jan 2020)

I agree, that said eg a wisdom tooth costs more to extract than a front tooth, depends on the work undertaken, was more local anaesthetic needed than usual, a second shot perhaps, were their complications, is the work complex,  were X-rays required.


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## Poc-ar-buille (23 Jan 2020)

Thing is
Haven't had the treatment yet
Dentist never mentioned anything like: this bit is over and above so we'll charge you more


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## elcato (23 Jan 2020)

I have had some extractions which took a long time and price varied. Until they see the extent they are just offering a price guide I presume. Do yu need to treatment and would it cost more if you had to go to another dentist to get a first consultation ?


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## Slim (23 Jan 2020)

elcato said:


> I have had some extractions which took a long time and price varied. Until they see the extent they are just offering a price guide I presume. Do yu need to treatment and would it cost more if you had to go to another dentist to get a first consultation ?


I would be very reluctant to cheese off a man who will be putting a drill into my mouth, especially for 2% or so. I would go elsewhere.


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## beautfan (24 Jan 2020)

Try buying a pair of buy one get one free pair of glasses. Very easy to buy a pair plus the free one worth €200 and leave the store having spent €500 plus.


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## Leo (24 Jan 2020)

Most of the ones I've seen advertising prices include a little small print or a mention in their T&Cs that prices will vary depending on the specifics of each case. 

The fact that they have given you a quote in advance of carrying out the work means they are covered regardless. Advertised prices are generally not binding and considered an invitation to treat.


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## Westpoint (21 May 2020)

I booked a Dental appointment today, I’m a medical card holder- I need some routine work and root canal. Because Ive a medical card, receptionist advised me on booking my appointment  that there is now additional €25 PPE charge because of admin involved in processing medical card claim.
Does anyone know if this is above board.


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## cmalone (21 May 2020)

Charge for Ppe seems reasonable - otherwise go elsewhere - have you a public dentist option ? Shop around. Obviously the hse is not paying for ppe ...


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## Peanuts20 (22 May 2020)

Westpoint said:


> I booked a Dental appointment today, I’m a medical card holder- I need some routine work and root canal. Because Ive a medical card, receptionist advised me on booking my appointment  that there is now additional €25 PPE charge because of admin involved in processing medical card claim.
> Does anyone know if this is above board.



yes, and it's not for the admin, its for the additional cost of PPE, (One dentist on the news last week said it was €8 per patient), the cost of cleaning down chairs and surgery after they have finished and the fact that they can see fewer patients because of the amount of cleaning they now have to do


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## Saavy99 (22 May 2020)

It's a cheap extra charge considering they got no help at all from the government throughout the pandemic. It must be a real struggle for many dental practises to keep going after two months of lock down.


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## Westpoint (22 May 2020)

Thanks for your response. Glad to have had the feedback.


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## tallpaul (22 May 2020)

And the shock from the medical card holder actually having to pay for something!!


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## Purple (27 May 2020)

Saavy99 said:


> It's a cheap extra charge considering they got no help at all from the government throughout the pandemic. It must be a real struggle for many dental practises to keep going after two months of lock down.


The average salary for a dentist is over €300,000 a year so I wouldn't lose sleep worrying about them starving.


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## Early Riser (27 May 2020)

Purple said:


> The average salary for a dentist is over €300,000 a year so I wouldn't lose sleep worrying about them starving.


 
I doubt it - average practice income, maybe, from which salaries for receptionist and dental nurse are paid, plus insurance, materials/equipment and business expenses.

For comparison, the salary scale for a Senior Dental Surgeon in the HSE runs from €76k to €96K . A starting salary for a qualified dentist is around €48k.






						1 January 2020 Consolidated Pay Scales
					

The Department of Health Consolidated Salary Scales with effect from 1 January 2020. Also below is Circular 16/2019 1 January pay adjustment and related measures.




					www.gov.ie


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## Purple (27 May 2020)

Early Riser said:


> I doubt it - average practice income, maybe, from which salaries for receptionist and dental nurse are paid, plus insurance, materials/equipment and business expenses.
> 
> For comparison, the salary scale for a Senior Dental Surgeon in the HSE runs from €76k to €96K . A starting salary for a qualified dentist is around €48k.
> 
> ...


You'll never earn as much doing the same job working for someone else as you will working for yourself, at least you shouldn't. Don't forget to add 30-40% for the HSE dentists for the value of their pension plus another 10% for their fantastic T's and C's.


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## Early Riser (27 May 2020)

Purple said:


> You'll never earn as much doing the same job working for someone else as you will working for yourself, at least you shouldn't. Don't forget to add 30-40% for the HSE dentists for the value of their pension plus another 10% for their fantastic T's and C's.



If the average dentist was earning "a salary" of over €300,000 they would have to be making a *profit* of about €100 euro per consultation (very rough back of the envelope calculation). Then add on an appropriate proportion for staff salaries, materials & equipment, insurance and business expenses . How much do you pay for a filling or scale and polish?


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## Purple (27 May 2020)

Early Riser said:


> How much do you pay for a filling or scale and polish?


Dunno; no fillings. Get them cleaned and checked once a year. I think that's €85.

I did think the pay was very high from the link I posted although, based on your €100 figure, I would think a dentist would see more than 13 people a day. If they earn €1300 a day they'll get around €300,000 a year. If each appointment is an average of 15 minutes and they work 6 hours a day they'll see 24 patients a day so they'll need to make an average of around €55 per consultation. 
I'd presume a dentist makes the same sort of money as a GP and there's very few GP's who work full time earning less than €250,000 a year. It's worth remembering that the majority of GP's are women and the majority of female GP's work part time. Don't be feeling too sorry for them either.


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## Early Riser (27 May 2020)

My routine medical appointment is usually 15 mins but dental is 30 mins. That seems general in the surgery and not just me! Also similar with previous dentists. There is no way I would be paying €85 for a 15 min slot. I think my guesstimate sums are nearer the mark than yours (and that the average dentist does not not have a "salary" over - or near - €300,000 pa). But neither of us has the figures.



Purple said:


> I'd presume a dentist makes the same sort of money as a GP and* there's very few GP's who work full time earning less than €250,000 a year*



Again is this "salary" or practice income? I am sure their are many medical practices with higher income - but less GP "salary". Anyway, a dental practice is not equivalent to a GP practice.



Purple said:


> Don't be feeling too sorry for them either.



I am not sure where this inference came from. I was just questioning the reliability and accuracy of your data source. Fake news and all that.


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## Purple (28 May 2020)

Early Riser said:


> Again is this "salary" or practice income? I am sure their are many medical practices with higher income - but less GP "salary".


 Salary. Insider knowledge; I used to be married to one. 


Early Riser said:


> I was just questioning the reliability and accuracy of your data source. Fake news and all that.


 Yep, did seem very high. Do remember all the payments from the HSE that private dentists and doctors get as well as what they charge you. Even in a private GP practice it will make up a very large chunk of their income (and the bulk of their admin).


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## Early Riser (28 May 2020)

Purple said:


> Do remember all the payments from the HSE that private dentists and doctors get as well as what they charge you


 
I did that.



Purple said:


> Insider knowledge; I used to be married to one.



Ah - got it.  And it generalised to dentists? Interesting.


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## Gordon Gekko (28 May 2020)

Purple said:


> The average salary for a dentist is over €300,000 a year so I wouldn't lose sleep worrying about them starving.



I don’t believe that for a second.

Even the use of the term ‘salary’ shows a lack of understanding of dentistry. In the main, they’re self-employed and they’re not allowed to incorporate under the Dental Act. With the rise of companies like Smiles, people travelling for treatment, and the general economic malaise and aftermath brought about by the Global Financial Crisis, the average wouldn’t be anywhere near €300k.

There are a handful of dentists doing exceptionally well. The majority earn a decent living. But there’s no way that the average is anywhere near €300k.


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## Purple (28 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> I don’t believe that for a second.
> 
> Even the use of the term ‘salary’ shows a lack of understanding of dentistry. In the main, they’re self-employed and they’re not allowed to incorporate under the Dental Act. With the rise of companies like Smiles, people travelling for treatment, and the general economic malaise and aftermath brought about by the Global Financial Crisis, the average wouldn’t be anywhere near €300k.
> 
> There are a handful of dentists doing exceptionally well. The majority earn a decent living. But there’s no way that the average is anywhere near €300k.


This from the Irish Dentists Association in 2010 said that average incomes (net of expenses) was €136,709. While their income hasn't gone up much in the last 10 years I doubt it has gone down. 
If they were working in someone else's practice their average income was €111,500.

That sounds about right to me. I presume they did the usual and didn't add the value of any pensions they have.


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## Gordon Gekko (28 May 2020)

Purple said:


> This from the Irish Dentists Association in 2010 said that average incomes (net of expenses) was €136,709. While their income hasn't gone up much in the last 10 years I doubt it has gone down.
> If they were working in someone else's practice their average income was €111,500.
> 
> That sounds about right to me. I presume they did the usual and didn't add the value of any pensions they have.



Okay, so not €300,000 then


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## Purple (28 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Okay, so not €300,000 then


Have you read the thread?


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## Gordon Gekko (28 May 2020)

Purple said:


> Have you read the thread?



Eh, yes I have; what’s your point?


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## Purple (28 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Eh, yes I have; what’s your point?


You seem to have missed post 18.


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## Gordon Gekko (28 May 2020)

Purple said:


> You seem to have missed post 18.



No, I didn’t. No real row-back in
Post 18.


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## Purple (28 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> No, I didn’t. No real row-back in
> Post 18.


Okay. I won't worry about it if you don't.


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## odyssey06 (29 May 2020)

Have heard some dental clinics eg Smile are now charging a Covid-19 premium to cover PPE, something like €6 to €18 depending on the treatment.


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## Purple (29 May 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Have heard some dental clinics eg Smile are now charging a Covid-19 premium to cover PPE, something like €6 to €18 depending on the treatment.


Reasonable enough though, isn't it?
It's not their fault that their costs have gone up.


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## odyssey06 (29 May 2020)

Purple said:


> Reasonable enough though, isn't it?
> It's not their fault that their costs have gone up.



As long as they declare it.


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