# Germany backs French-led moves to regulate Bitcoin at G20 level



## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

Germany Joins French-led Moves to Regulate Bitcoin at G-20 Level
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...gulate-bitcoin-to-clamp-down-on-illegal-risks

I'm getting conflicting messages from detractors of Bitcoin.

 On the one hand it's worthless, on the other hand the heads of the centralised command banking economy consider regulation for it. Why are the heads of the global centralised banks bothered with a hot-air, worthless gimmick like Bitcoin?

They say it's being used to launder money and for terrorism, but on the otherhand others say that it is totally traceable, hackable and destined to crash, so what odds? The terrorist criminals are only setting themselves up for a massive fall, which can only be a good thing right?


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

More Bitcoin Ponzi scheme schenannigans, this time to tune of $100m fraud...

He Stole $100 Million From His Clients. Now He’s Living in Luxury on the Côte d’Azur
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...-now-he-s-living-in-luxury-on-the-c-te-d-azur

...wait a second! This was a cash fraud  not Bitcoin. For 15yrs! Can't theses central bankers regulate their own currencies?


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Dec 2017)

Hi Shortie


“It makes sense to discuss the speculative risks of virtual currencies and their impact on the financial system at international level,” the Finance Ministry in Berlin said in an emailed response to questions. The next meeting of G-20 finance ministers and central bank governors would be “a good opportunity to do so.”

When Bitcoin crashes, there will be a loud outcry from consumers who have lost their life savings saying that the governments and Central Banks should have done something about it.  

Wasn't Albania near to a revolution over a massive pyramid scheme which collapsed and further impoverished people? 

Having said that, I am not sure that the governments should do anything about it.  If they warn about it, the Bitcoin enthusiasts will claim that this is evidence that it is real and they are worried about it - cue another 10% rise in Bitcoin's price.  Or else, people might listen to the warnings and then you would claim that an evil and corrupt conspiracy of international right-wing governments and Central Banks had killed off the one thing which would expose their massive fiat money scam. 

The money laundering and criminal activity is a temporary phenomenon because these criminals will be left with a massive amount of worthless computer code when Bitcoin crashes.  

It's possible that a cryptocurrency could get international acceptance as a payment system, in which case the governments would be right to monitor it and regulate it.  I doubt that will be Bitcoin because when it crashes by 99.99%, there will probably be such a loss of confidence that it will become useless and worthless.  

Brendan


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## Easeler (19 Dec 2017)

I totally agree with you on this one brendan the idea you can create wealth out of nothing is ludicrous and well done for banging this drum.


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## MrEarl (19 Dec 2017)

I can see this getting very interesting....

If the G20 try to regulate Bitcoin, then won't that be going against the concept of having an international cryptocurrency that is not regulated or controlled by government ?

That said, regulation brings a degree of safety and underlying comfort


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It makes sense to discuss the speculative risks of virtual currencies and their impact on the financial system at international level,” the Finance Ministry in Berlin said in an emailed response to questions.



Yes it does, I take no issue with that. It is certainly worth their while to start thinking about what is going on.



Brendan Burgess said:


> When Bitcoin crashes, there will be a loud outcry from consumers who have lost their life savings saying that the governments and Central Banks should have done something about it.



Well, you know as I do, anyone who puts all their life savings into any one punt is asking for trouble. Be it bitcoin, housing, Anglo, Enron etc...etc



Brendan Burgess said:


> Having said that, I am not sure that the governments should do anything about it. If they warn about it, the Bitcoin enthusiasts will claim that this is evidence that it is real and they are worried about it - cue another 10% rise in Bitcoin's price



Well they do appear at least somewhat concerned.



Brendan Burgess said:


> Or else, people might listen to the warnings and then you would claim that an evil and corrupt conspiracy of international right-wing governments and Central Banks had killed off the one thing which would expose their massive fiat money scam.



Warning about bitcoin isnt going to stop that baby bursting out. 
Do you think it should be banned? If yes, on what basis?




Brendan Burgess said:


> It's possible that a cryptocurrency could get international acceptance as a payment system, in which case the governments would be right to monitor it and regulate it.



Perhaps, but a international cryptocurrencey using blockchain technology is unlikely to gain acceptance by governments and/or central banks. 
After all, when they need to cook the books the blockchain will expose the fraud for everyone to see. That wont work, will it?




Brendan Burgess said:


> I doubt that will be Bitcoin because when it crashes by 99.99%, there will probably be such a loss of confidence that it will become useless and worthless.



I doubt if governments will universally accept bitcoin either, especially if its out of their control.


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## jman0war (19 Dec 2017)

TheBigShort said:


> Perhaps, but a international cryptocurrencey using blockchain technology is unlikely to gain acceptance by governments and/or central banks.
> After all, when they need to cook the books the blockchain will expose the fraud for everyone to see. That wont work, will it?


International, no.
National digitial currenices, Yes.
It's about control.

With "FedCoin", the US government could track every single transaction you make, including every cent you ever earn.
Taxes can be automatically deducted via built-in smart contracts (probably including a god-mode for Government).
Consumption quotas can be enforced via the same (similar to what is done with food stamp recipients today).


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

jman0war said:


> International, no.
> National digitial currenices, Yes.
> It's about control.



I dont think so. It is widely reported that Goldman Sachs cooked the books to get Greece into the euro. If the Drachma coin was built on blockchain technology, any manipulation would be exposed. 
Thats my understanding of blockchain. It over rides the requirement for a trusted third party, like eh, Goldman Sachs for instance.


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## ant dee (19 Dec 2017)

Well, they can build their 'blockchain' however they want.
Now, 'blockchain' without 'decentralised' means 'database'.
E.g.

Citizens cant view any transactions, maybe just their dependands'.
Local authorities can view the local entities transactions.
Revenue can view all the transactions.
Government can view, control and alter all transactions.

Total control, but the citizens are still blind to manipulation.
We can ask for an audit and it wont be anything better than what we have now.

The only hope is that white-hat hackers will expose scandals every now and then.


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## jman0war (19 Dec 2017)

FedCoin for the sheeple, something else even less transparent for the banks.


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

ant dee said:


> Well, they can build their 'blockchain' however they want.



In order to validate it, or verify, wouldnt it require a trusted third party?


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## ant dee (19 Dec 2017)

TheBigShort said:


> In order to validate it, or verify, wouldnt it require a trusted third party?


They can appoint themselves as the leader.
ECB validates the EuroCoin.
The federal reserve validates FedCoin.


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

ant dee said:


> They can appoint themselves as the leader.
> ECB validates the EuroCoin.
> The federal reserve validates FedCoin.



Yes but then they can manipulate to suit their needs. All we would have then is the status quo, but a cashless status quo. 

Isnt that somewhat the appeal of bitcoin, that it stands outside the status quo?


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## ant dee (19 Dec 2017)

TheBigShort said:


> Yes but then they can manipulate to suit their needs. All we would have then is the status quo, but a cashless status quo.
> 
> Isnt that somewhat the appeal of bitcoin, that it stands outside the status quo?


Ah , yes, it has nothing to do with bitcoin, kind of like the exact opposite


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## jman0war (19 Dec 2017)

TheBigShort said:


> Isnt that somewhat the appeal of bitcoin, that it stands outside the status quo?


To bitcoiners it is.

Others are not so troubled by the Surveillance State.
I guess they don't mind the limitations and controls that banks place on access to, and the ability to transact, with their own money.

Cash is going to be phased out.


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## BreadKettle (19 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> I totally agree with you on this one brendan the idea you can create wealth out of nothing is ludicrous and well done for banging this drum.



LOL, how dare people make money from investments - good aul elbow grease and hard work, that's how you make an honest buck


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

jman0war said:


> Others are not so troubled by the Surveillance State.
> I guess they don't mind the limitations and controls that banks place on access to, and the ability to transact, with their own money.



That is so true. Most people arent even bothering with bitcoin. Why such the interest from Germany, France etc?


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...stark-warning-on-deadly-bitcoin-idUSKBN1EC19N

And now Danish central bank.


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## jman0war (19 Dec 2017)

> “You should stay away (from bitcoin). It is deadly,” central bank head Lars Rohde said in an interview with state broadcaster DR published online on Monday.


Open source software that records transactions on a public ledger is 'deadly'?

-Something is rotten in the state of Denmark-


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

Alternate view, albeit unreservedly biased, on what CB's have in store for bitcoin in 2018

https://www.coindesk.com/2018-year-central-banks-begin-buying-cryptocurrency/

If you want to regulate something, as referenced in the OP link, how would CB's go about doing that? 
Would they need to start buying bitcoin and other cryptos like they do gold?


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## jman0war (19 Dec 2017)

It seems that when governments try to do any sort of regulation of tech stuff, they are woefully ill informed and the result is usually fecklessness.


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## TheBigShort (19 Dec 2017)

I agree, but it's a serious question. Some of the loudest noise in the Bitcoin space are the voices of those who say regulate, or ban it. 
I'm not sure how it could be banned or even regulated, this is not NK or China. So I would imagine banks under CB licensing would be ordered not to accept, receive or transfer funds to exchanges that support Bitcoin like Coinbase? Even still that would only prove a minor inconvenience long-term and would require all central banks globally acting in unison.

So perhaps anyone with some insight into the area of prohibition or regulating encrypted cyber-space could shed some light as to how CB's could regulate or ban Bitcoin?


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## TheBigShort (20 Dec 2017)

Im wondering if this decision by European Courts on Uber will offer CB's some window of opportunity to commence a case to regulate cryptocurrencies?

http://www.newstalk.com/European-court-rules-that-Uber-can-be-regulated-like-a-taxi-service

Does Uber and its effective decentralised taxi service have any resemblances with crypto in that regard?


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## BreadKettle (20 Dec 2017)

TheBigShort said:


> Im wondering if this decision by European Courts on Uber will offer CB's some window of opportunity to commence a case to regulate cryptocurrencies?
> 
> http://www.newstalk.com/European-court-rules-that-Uber-can-be-regulated-like-a-taxi-service
> 
> Does Uber and its effective decentralised taxi service have any resemblances with crypto in that regard?



I don't think so no. It's easy enough to slap regulations on a company.

Regulations of ICO's should probably be welcomed as well.


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## RETIRED2017 (28 Jan 2018)

Any update on G20 or do we have to wait until November


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