# Developer Controlled Management Company in receivership



## bovis (10 May 2010)

Hi,
I am a relatively new owner of a newly built apartment and I just found out today that the development company that built our half-sold apartment block has gone into receivership. Up to now, the developer has been contributing to the management company for their share of unsold apartments and we were happy with this as the development was well kept. Now that the developer has gone into receivership - does the receiver keep paying the management fee for unsold units? does it fall to the bank that appointed the receiver? I've been in touch with the receiver but we didnt get into specifics of what should happen.

Any ideas? Surely others have been in a similar situation. I am trying not to panic but seeing those poor people on "ghostlands" last night has totally spooked me.


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## purpeller (11 May 2010)

Bovis,

I don't have any specific experience but I suggest you get other owners together to discuss your options.  The various booklets from the NCA may be of use.  You may need to take legal advice too.

Best of luck,
Purpeller


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## babaduck (11 May 2010)

I worked for a developer who ended up in a (sadly) similar situation.  The bank who called in the Receivers is now liable for all the unsold units and the associated management fees, and the managing agent if the developer was acting in this capacity.

From my experience, the Bank will try to spend as little/do as little as possible and I suggest that you all join forces as owners/landlords and seek a meeting with the Receiver ASAP.


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## bovis (11 May 2010)

Thanks. Thats good advice. Sounds like joining forces with the other owners is the way to go.

I wonder how best to contact the other owners? Many of the units are rented. Is the management company obliged to give me contact names/number of the other owners? If you know of other ways to find the owners - I'd really appreciate it.

Bovis


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## babaduck (11 May 2010)

Legally because of data protection & all that, you can't have the info.  But if you don't ask, you won't get!  It might be worth doing a mailshot to all occupied units about calling a meeting to discuss where you all legally stand - put a note on it asking tenants to pass it to their landlord or letting agent.  

Things that would concern me (and I speak from experience working during the receivership) are 
* Block insurance cover
* Lift service contract
* Common area ESB & heat
* Grounds maintenance
* Defects liability


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## mathepac (11 May 2010)

babaduck said:


> Legally because of data protection & all that, you can't have the info....


Untrue. All the property owners, who are members / shareholders in the management company, must be  listed in the documents filed with the ODCE (Section 116 of the Companies Act 1963). These are a matter of public record. Contact your Company Secretary, who must also be listed, who can instruct the managing agent to release the information or the ODCE directly. [broken link removed].


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## ontour (11 May 2010)

ODCE is an enforcement body, any list of members would be held at the company's registration office (CRO).  It is not mandatory that the information is held at the CRO, it may be held at the management companies office, the management agent's office or another office of the creator of this list.  

Bottom line is that as a member you should have access.  The problem will likely be that the list is held at the office of the management company which will coincidentally be the office of the builder/ developer that is in receivership.  You may be entitled to the list but you may find that there is no one at the end of the phone to give it to you.

Start with the CRO, if they don't have the list, they are supposed to know where you can access it.  In the meantime, a notice in all the letterboxes and a meet-up in the local pub or hotel would be a good start.


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## mathepac (11 May 2010)

Thanks ontour, sorry about confusing my quango MLAs 


ontour said:


> ... Bottom line is that as a member you should have access. ...


That's the bit - there is no legal obstacle to accessing the information, where-ever it lives.


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## babaduck (11 May 2010)

If you run out of options - the Developer's solicitor will also have a list of owners/landlords


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## 10amwalker (12 May 2010)

*Bovis*- sorry to hear about your situation however on the positive side it may mean that you can start controlling your own management company.
Was there a managing agent involved ?

See www.apartmentowners.ie 

*Babaduck*
I would be very interested in learning more from your experience with a view to preparing a key post for AAM as I assume there will be many more members of management companies that will require advice. I can help on the  management company issues but have no experience on the insolvent developer side.


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## babaduck (12 May 2010)

10amwalker - feel free to PM me and I'll help where I can...


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## bovis (16 May 2010)

Thanks a mill for the posts so far. This forum is really helpful. I have started the 1st step of getting owners together for a meeting and everyones is up for it. Can I ask you all to help me once again on the differences between houses and units in a management company?

The apartment unit I bought is in a development that has a 60/40 split between apartments and houses. The houses are mostly free standing detached and semi-detached houses and many of the owners dont have a clue about the management company (apart from resenting that they get asked for management fees). I am wondering how to align everyone on the goal of having an effective management company.

My Question - How would I know if our development is a managed housing estate or are we all under leasehold agreement to a management company that owns the freehold? Or is our development some type of hybrid?  I would like to know this information before out 1st meeting so that we can understand what each owner (house or unit) needs to be concerned about.

Anyone got any ideas or similar situations?

Rgds
Bovis

Here's a letter I have sent to the solicitor who drew up the lease for the developer.





> As an apartment owner I understand I have a leasehold title on my apartment and I assume that the freehold of the building is owned by the management company, which is in turn owned by the apartment owners; and in this case, when i bought my apartment I bought a leashold title on my apartment plus a share of the freehold (i.e I share in the management company). Is this correct?
> 
> I am particularly interested to know if the house owners in the same development have a similar leasehold/freehold arrangement and what is the exact nature of the obligation of the house owners to the management company.
> - Do the house owners own a share in the management company?
> ...


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## purpeller (17 May 2010)

Bovis,

The management company's memorandum and articles of incorporation should give you this information.  You should have received a copy of these when you purchased, if not, you can get them from the CRO website.

My own development has some houses but mostly apartments.  The houses pay significantly smaller fees.

Purpeller


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## bovis (17 May 2010)

Hi Purpeller,
Thanks - I downloaded these and they only give specific information about the management company side of things. The thing that isnt clear is the legal arrangement that the house owners have to the management company. I know I signed a lease with the management company as apartment are a leasehold. No problem with that.

But whats happens if houses havent signed a leasehold - how does an owner of a house have a connection to the management company. Hmmm!


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## purpeller (18 May 2010)

I would imagine that everyone has a lease from the management company.  I've never heard of a situation where houses in a managed development have a different legal agreement than the apartments.  Do you know any of the house owners who you could discuss it with?  They'd probably show you their paperwork if you ask nicely.


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## 10amwalker (19 May 2010)

*Bovis*

I agree with Purpeller the management company will encompass the houses and the apartment complex.

Have you looked to meet with the receiver ?

Worthwhile going onto the CRO.ie site and downloading any sets of audited accounts that have been lodged.

From that look at the next filing date for your management company.

Was the developer acting as the managing agent ?


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## bovis (20 May 2010)

Hi 10amwalker,
Yes - all the owners are getting together and we hope to form a management committee to meet the receiver.

Yes - unfortunately the developer (i.e his staff) were/are acting as management agent.

Its going to be a long road ahead  

The great news is that all the owners are up for meeting up so thats a great first!


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## 10amwalker (5 Jul 2010)

Any update on how your are getting on Bovis ?


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