# Smart Telecom on Gerry Ryan Show



## nt00deep (27 Jun 2006)

Heard a guy call in to Gerry Ryan Show on 2FM today. Domestic Eircom account in his name, his wife is met with Smart Telecom sales guy at home. Smart Telecom guy scans a copy of husband's recent Eircom bill and takes it away to prepare some customised comparative pricing for them.

Next they hear, Eircom ring them to confirm that their account has been closed as they are moving to Smart.

The guy was so mad that if Smart had offered him free telephony, he would not go with them. Neither his wife nor himself had signed or consented to anything. Eircom call centre had told him that because he handed over his confidential account number, there was little they could do.

I did not get to hear any follow-up to the story. Was there any follow up? I would love to hear what explanation both Eircom and Smart would have come up with.


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

I have heard a number of these stories going back many years . Do not 'show' your bill to any door to door salesman from any telco whatsoever is the message .

Eircom do the same thing with their 'winback' people calling around. The key is to get the ACCOUNT number any way you can


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## Jister (28 Jun 2006)

But my understanding is that you have to consent either by signature or answering questions over the phone in a recorded call?


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

your understanding is correct but the key is the ACCOUNT number . Eircom were doing the reverse. They were getting the Smart Account numbers of Smart customers 'internally' and 'taking them back' see 

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0627.pdf

Very neat,door to door from your desk wha


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## Bamhan (28 Jun 2006)

The same thing happened with me excpet it was Eircom who switched my account from UTV TAlK back to Eircom without me consenting.
Sales guy called, we are moving soon so enquired about getting a line installed at new house, gave him my details and then a few weeks later we realise we are switeched back to Eircom and have a big bill to pay.
He used the universal account number to switch us, I signed nothing.


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## rkeane (28 Jun 2006)

A while back I was thinking of moving from eircom and so i rang BT and eventually asked them to change me over when broadband was available in my area.  I rang back the very same day and asked for that order to be cancelled.  Done, no problem (so they said).  When broadband became available I got a bt router delivered to me with my brand new account info.  I rang up really angry about it as I had asked them to cancel.  They said they had no record of me cancelling it.  It was a problem for me as I wanted to go with smart telecom.  But you cant change from bt to smart directly.  Not exactly the same issue but it shows how ruthless these companies are.


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## nt00deep (28 Jun 2006)

So in practice, which of the following two scenarios is it ...

1) Smart Telecom are deceiving Eircom Customer Services by impersonating their customers...
Smart Guy: "Hi, Eircom?"
Eircom Guy: "Yes."
Smart Guy: "I would like to switch my account to Smart."
Eircom Guy: "No problem at all. Who are you and what is your a/c #?"
Smart Guy: "Ahem, I am Mary O'Neill, and my a/c number is abcd1234"
Eircom Guy: "And your address?"
Smart Guy: "Blah Blah"
Eircom Guy: "Thanks Mrs O'Neill. That is done there now."​or 

2) Eircom are thick
Smart Guy: "Hi, Eircom?"
Eircom Guy: "Yes."
Smart Guy: "Mr. Smart here. I would like to take one of your customers"
Eircom Guy: "Ah you can't do that. You need their consent."
Smart Guy: "Ah sure I have that. Sure didn't I even get her a/c # !"
Eircom Guy: "Why didn't you say that in the first place? Just give me the details so"
Smart Guy: "Blah Blah"
Eircom Guy: "Thanks Mr Smart. I wish you luck with our previously satisfied customer"​


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## rkeane (28 Jun 2006)

nt00deep said:
			
		

> So in practice, which of the following two scenarios is it ...
> 
> 1) Smart Telecom are deceiving Eircom Customer Services by impersonating their customers...
> Smart Guy: "Hi, Eircom?"
> ...


eircom cant switch you over to smart


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## Bamhan (28 Jun 2006)

The Eircom guy who called to me rang up and pretended to be my husband to get my universal account number. He told me he needed this to process my application for a new telephone quicker as connection would be done quicker if he had all the paper work filled in advance. He said he was Mr Bamhan, and asked for his universal account number from UTV TAlk and they gave it to him no bother.


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## nt00deep (28 Jun 2006)

That is just amazing.  So armed with an account number, the telco providers accept a request to change providers without written consent.

To contrast with that, when I moved house recently, because we were moving to a different exchange (although 4 miles as the crow flies) we needed new tel # and account number, WITH EIRCOM.  i.e. Requesting an account change with the same company.

Eircom would not process the request without me putting it in writing.  Although a bit of a pain at the time, looking back now, I am glad they requested the written consent.  In light of that, to hear that I could call up and request a change of provider and they not require written consent is confusing.

... unless Mr Smart is writing to Eircom in the customer's name, granting the written consent?


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## nt00deep (28 Jun 2006)

> eircom cant switch you over to smart


 
rkeane: Technically, that may be the case, but the guy on the radio got a letter/call from Eircom confirming that whatever they had been requested to do to facilitate his move to Smart had been completed.

So maybe Smart cannot request it, but the point is it sounds like Smart masquerading as me can request it.


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## Bamhan (28 Jun 2006)

Yes it would appear that they can.


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## Jister (28 Jun 2006)

I switched from Euphony back to Eircom recently. Eircom messed it up and started billing me for talktime but my calls were still being routed through Euphony so I was getting 2 bills. The easiest solution appears to be to switch to Perlico which I am in the process of doing. I emailed a complaint to Eircom and the reply is below:

Dear Mr XXXXX, 
I am emailing you in response to your recent complaint. 
I am very sorry that your request to return to_ eircom_ was not processed.  
I wish to advise you that the charge of 26.14 ex. VAT for_ Talktime_ was refunded to your account on 19/06/06. 
There is now a request on your account to move your line and calls to_ Another Licensed Operator_. 
I am very sorry for any inconvenience you have experienced.  As a gesture of goodwill I have applied a refund of 2 months line rental 48.36 incl. VAT to your_ eircom_ account.  There was a bill issued on 20/06/06 for line rental only, the credit I have allowed will cover this.
If you have any queries in relation to the above please do not hesitate to contact me on 01 7013XXX or by email. 
Kind regards, 
Lisa XXXXX
_eircom_ Channel Support Dublin


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## rkeane (28 Jun 2006)

Bamhan said:
			
		

> Yes it would appear that they can.


how can eircom set you up on a completely different provider?


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## Bamhan (29 Jun 2006)

That is just amazing. So armed with an account number, the telco providers accept a request to change providers without written consent.


I was saying yes it would appear that they can to this point.


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## Guest107 (29 Jun 2006)

and thats why door to door sales people including eircom winback ones always want to see your bill. If they don't see the bill they cannot get the account number and you are safe.

The nicking of customers in the telecoms business is called SLAMMING


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## Bamhan (29 Jun 2006)

That is an American website so not sure the information would apply here.


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## nt00deep (29 Jun 2006)

It is also defined on [broken link removed] but no other references on their site other than to the definition of the term.

Have asked them for details on how the practice is dealt with (if at all) in their jurisdiction.


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## MAJJ (29 Jun 2006)

What is to stop someone getting the account number from someones bin or everyone on the streets bins.  That is a crazy situation!!!


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## rkeane (29 Jun 2006)

2Pack said:
			
		

> and thats why door to door sales people including eircom winback ones always want to see your bill. If they don't see the bill they cannot get the account number and you are safe.
> 
> The nicking of customers in the telecoms business is called SLAMMING


Slamming is sooo ironic.  Its what I do after being on the phone to BT.


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## Guest107 (29 Jun 2006)

nt00deep said:
			
		

> Have asked them for details on how the practice is dealt with (if at all) in their jurisdiction.



Rarely dealt with, Comreg hate doing any work

The rules are called The _CPS Code Of Practice_ and thats what they are supposed to enforce. Its a secret I think ....to save Comreg doing any work


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## Technologist (30 Jun 2006)

From SiliconRepublic:



> *Jail beckons for Smart Telecom*
> 
> 30.06.2006 - The Irish Prison Service has awarded a contract to link 14 sites around the country on a single data network in a public procurement deal worth €900,000. Smart Telecom won the contract to supply the infrastructure.
> The sites are Clover Hill, Wheatfield, Mountjoy, Cork, Limerick, Portlaoise, Castelrea, Shelton Abbey, Loughan House, Arbour Hill, Clonskeagh, a services division in Santry and the headquarters in Clondalkin. The network will also be connected to the Government network. The term of the contract is for three years with an option to review after the second year.
> ...


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## Capaill (4 Jul 2006)

According to Electric News Network and the Sunday Tribune  Smart Telecom have dismissed the culprit and have tightened internal controls to prevent it happening again.

C


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## nt00deep (4 Jul 2006)

Reply from ComReg ...

Slamming is the term used when a telecommunications company takes over an account without the authorisation of a consumer contract.  

There are two principle methods used by telecom companies to sign customers up, a CAF (Customer Authorisation Form) or TPV (Third Party Verification).  A CAF will have to be signed by the customer, whereas a TPV is a recording done over the phone, and no signature is required.  Distance selling regulations cover both of these selling methods, and these are enforced by the Office of Consumer Affairs.

Slamming does not happen very often and where instances occur, ComReg investigates them fully and liaises with both company and customer involved.   


Best Regards,
*Com**mission for **Com**munications Regulation*
Abbey Court  Irish Life Centre  Lower Abbey Street
Dublin 1  Ireland
Telephone 1890 229 668
Fax +353 1 804 9680
www.comreg.ie


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## Marcecie (5 Jul 2006)

Perlico question,
are the free calls only to other perlico customrs or to any landline, I have been told over the phone its free to any landline but their site says to other perlico customers


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## nt00deep (6 Jul 2006)

Marcecie,

The perlico question is not relevant in this thread.  Don't give up on your earlier duplicate post.


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