# NI shopping exodus 'swings and roundabouts'



## SteH

I know this has been discussed before but another thread never killed anyone... 

http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/1128/retail.html

RTE carry a story this morning about people traveling to the north of Ireland to get cheap buys and one of the things that it mentions is that traders and politicians are asking people to be patriotic and to shop in the republic. 

On many levels I consider it an insult for any retailer or politician to say that being patriotic means that you shop at home and keep money at home. 

You have to ask the question 'Why is there such a massive disparity in prices north and south?". I think most people know exactly why and exactly who is the many beneficiary of the price difference and therefore why it exists (taking tax and and exchange rate out there is still a big price gap). Comments about patriotism should be preserved for speeches that are about the betterment of each individual in the country, not just a single group wanting to line their pockets.

I wonder how many politicians and tradesmen send their wives to new York for shopping every year or go on luxury holidays to far flung corners of the world. How many of them have bought property in other countries or invested in stocks in other countries. 

I hope I'm not the only one in this country who is tired of the repeated cycle of greed that eventually filters down to the average punter on the street. There are literally thousands of examples since the year 2000 and this is another one.


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## krissovo

SteH said:


> I hope I'm not the only one in this country who is tired of the repeated cycle of greed that eventually filters down to the average punter on the street. There are literally thousands of examples since the year 2000 and this is another one.



Your certainly not alone!

I am planning on getting a van/trailer and heading up north for my Christmas shopping plus a few things for my house build.  I also intend on using ebay/amazon and various other online shops as the savings are considerable.

Factoring diesel and two nights in a hotel I still save money.  Its mad!


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## HJT

I read this article in the Irish Independent yesterday.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/sterling-and-the-net-are-we-all-being-ripped-off-1554632.html


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## PaddyW

They were comparing an average weekly shopping list in the sun yesterday. Exact same items on each. 144 in the south, 104 up the north. It's absolute madness.


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## terrontress

With the "unpatriotic" mindset, people would never leave their town, never mind their country. 

Is it unpatriotic for an English person to come to Ireland on holiday when there is plenty of beautiful scenery, pubs, restaurants and music in England? Should that behaviour be discouraged?

I reckon putting money in the tills of Sainsburys in Newry is more patriotic than in Dunnes of Dundalk. At least Sainsbury's is an openly traded company which is bound to have many Irish shareholders and the funds from Irish pensions in it, not like Dunnes where the profit goes straight into the pockets of a wealthy family.

I had to laugh at Robinson saying that the savings will help people with the high taxation and then saying he is not interested in petty point-scoring. He is a vile man but I have had to agree with him today.


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## DerKaiser

we should all be careful here, particularly those of us who are paid more than our UK counterparts.  

The only way shops down here can compete with shops up north is if their cost base is the same.  I think costs are higher.  We can't blame the shopkeeper if they have to pay higher wages, higher insurance, higher wholesale prices, higher advertising costs.  

The only logical conclsuion is that anyone who is paid more than their UK counterparts should take their pay cut


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## theoneill

It’s as patriotic to shop in the North as it is to try to screw your fellow countryman by charging ridiculous prices for goods and services.

Irish competition seems to involve matching your competitor’s prices instead of beating them. Also when prices are reduced it seems on the goods of questionable quality.


BTW I never thought I see the day when I’d agree with Peter Robinson


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## SteH

theoneill said:


> It’s as patriotic to shop in the North as it is to try to screw your fellow countryman by charging ridiculous prices for goods and services.
> 
> Irish competition seems to involve matching your competitor’s prices instead of beating them. Also when prices are reduced it seems on the goods of questionable quality.
> 
> 
> BTW I never thought I see the day when I’d agree with Peter Robinson



Just to add to your point, I come from a town in the west of Ireland. A nice town with about 4,000 people. There are about 20 pubs/bars in town and when the breweries up the price by 7 cent the pubs put it up by 15cents. Each pub puts the price up to the exact same price on the same day. Where is the competition. How is it possible that each pub owner thinks exactly the same way? I think the word is cartel or price-fixing or vintners association, not sure which but either way it doesn't just happen in my home town it happens everywhere.

On top of all that the annual town festival which was the highlight of the year when I was younger hasn't existed for 4 or 5 years now because all of the pubs stopped contributing to pay for the insurances and other costs related. They didn't need the business it brought during the boom times but its a different case now. 

Why should I be a 'patriotic' customer when they have shown they're not a 'patriotic' business.


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## theoneill

I can’t understand the Irish mentality it’s almost as if some retailers would rather go out of business than reduce their prices. As a consumer it’s my duty to get the best value for goods and services, business crying the poor mouth is not my concern. Politicians insulting consumers for exercising their right to shop where they please when at the same time taking thousands a year out of the average households disposable income in a time of recession is just incompetence with a dash of arrogance.


//end rant


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## Duke of Marmalade

The refreshing thing about this debate, not even questioned so far on this thread,  is the recognition that Northern Ireland *is* a foreign country.  Thank goodness most of us have got over that delusion, still nurtured by SF, GAA etc. that we are all Irish.


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## crabbybear

I believe the major reason for increased prices here are due to the inefficient public service ie inflated salaries and 33 hr week for councils and other public bodies along with culture of waste, these costs are passed on to the public and businesses in various rate charges. 

If Ireland is to survive and avoid a return to very bad times we need to become more competitive and this means salary cuts and cost cuts. This may be a bitter pill to swallow but welcome to the world of commerce.


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## PaulHoughton

Minimum wage in UK: €6.84
Minimum wage in Ireland: €8.65 

26% higher wage costs.


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## Steve D

DerKaiser said:


> we should all be careful here, particularly those of us who are paid more than our UK counterparts.


 
This simply means that Ireland is becoming more uncompetitive. High costs will mean that exports will suffer, especially to the UK, now that Serlling has fallen. High costs will also mean that multinationals will look elsewhere when making investment decisions and the ones that are here will seriously look at pulling out.


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## z101

PaulHoughton said:


> Minimum wage in UK: €6.84
> Minimum wage in Ireland: €8.65
> 
> 26% higher wage costs.


 
And here in lies the problem and thanks to our trade unions more and more will be squeezed out of jobs. They just dont get that customers like companys/jobs will go where its cheaper, be it the north for shoppers or Eastern Europe for Large employers. Wage inflation has us completely uncompetative but Jack O'Conner et al turn a blind eye this an ever increasing blinding light.


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## PaddyBloggit

wages are hard earned ..... ppl do right to get the best deals they can. Irish (Republic) retailers are well aware of the cross-border shopping threat .... they need to get creative/cheaper if they want to get any of that hard earned cash.

It's about time the consumer became a little more discerning with his/her spending .... for too long we lost the run of ourselves .... greed fed greed ...


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## MortgageGuy

we were happy enough to see northern drivers head south for cheaper petrol, now that we put enough tax on it to make it unattractive for them (and with a weaker sterling) it seems the tides have changed and we are going there.

Tesco pesto sauce is 2 sterline, its 3.69 in the republic, you can paint patriotism all you want, but with price differences like that what is the motivation to shop elsewhere? 

how would it come across if we were encouraged to buy goods or services that were more expensive especially at a time where money is tight?

its called capitalism, and rather than ***** about it we should remove certain costs of doing business here to make us more competitive and able to compete. water finds its own level, this talk of 'patriotic duty' is nonsense.

i'm doing my patriotic duty already by accepting the income levy, by paying more VAT on things i buy and by paying more DIRT on the little savings i have. what more does the state want? where does it end?


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## ringledman

Supervalue run an advert in their stores listing out around 40 items and comparing the receipt to Dunnes and Tescos. 

The prices for all 40 items are exactly the same within all three stores! And supervalue sell this as them being 'good value'. Its a joke.

Surely there is a competition commission to stop this price fixing and abuse???


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## terrontress

Well Supervalu is more of a convenience store to my mind so I think a price comparison showing them as being the same price is valid and helpful.

There will always be a place in Ireland for smaller retailers. People will always need a pint of milk at 8 in the evening or a bottle of wine on the way home from work.

Who are going to lose out on this are Tesco (English company), Dunnes (owned by one rich family). I couldn't care about either. They will remain profitable, no jobs lost.

And if the exchequer loses out, surely Ireland is better off as part of a system which has allowed us to export computers and pharmaceuticals throughout Europe and gives us the money to go North and exercise our rights as citizens of the EU.


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## brazen_dude

imho, we cant compare item to item prices with those in UK since the population of ireland is much smaller and overheads and turnover of the commodities make big difference to the prices... having said so, price difference of more than 20% is not justifiable either...  i guess an overhead of 10% over uk prices should be reasonable...


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## Complainer

brazen_dude said:


> imho, we cant compare item to item prices with those in UK since the population of ireland is much smaller and overheads and turnover of the commodities make big difference to the prices..


We're not - we're comparing item to item prices between ROI and NI, where NI population is much smaller.



SteH said:


> I wonder how many politicians and tradesmen send their wives to new York for shopping every year or go on luxury holidays to far flung corners of the world. How many of them have bought property in other countries or invested in stocks in other countries.


Great points.


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## bond-007

2 hour delays from the border to Newry today. That alone speaks for itself.


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## hawkmar

Lucky for me i live  5mile form newry& 3mile form dundalk best of both worlds i would say. lol.


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## ubiquitous

hawkmar said:


> i live  5mile form newry& 3mile form dundalk



That's odd given that the two towns are 23 km apart. http://www.aaireland.ie/routes/route.asp


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## bond-007

Unapproved roads my good man.


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## ubiquitous

bond-007 said:


> Unapproved roads my good man.



Them was the days


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## hawkmar

bond-007 said:


> Unapproved roads my good man.


 
100% right 007 nice to see someone knows there stuff,lol.


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## Padraigb

hawkmar said:


> 100% right 007 nice to see someone knows there stuff,lol.


 There is no place on this planet that is 5 miles from Dundalk and 3 miles from Newry, even if you ignore the roads and drive through the fields. The straight-line distance between them is more than 10 miles. I know my stuff.  I don't see great value in using so much fuel and time, and perhaps the cost of a meal out, to save €40 or €50.      My income comes from my neighbours. Most of my spending is local, so that some of their income comes from me. I don't see it as patriotism; I see it as being a good neighbour. And I'd rather spend my money buying stuff from them than spend it as increased tax to support them on the dole.  [PS: I wrote 3 paragraphs, but when I posted, everything was converted into one paragraph.]


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## hawkmar

Padraigb said:


> There is no place on this planet that is 5 miles from Dundalk and 3 miles from Newry, even if you ignore the roads and drive through the fields. The straight-line distance between them is more than 10 miles. I know my stuff. I don't see great value in using so much fuel and time, and perhaps the cost of a meal out, to save €40 or €50. My income comes from my neighbours. Most of my spending is local, so that some of their income comes from me. I don't see it as patriotism; I see it as being a good neighbour. And I'd rather spend my money buying stuff from them than spend it as increased tax to support them on the dole. [PS: I wrote 3 paragraphs, but when I posted, everything was converted into one paragraph.]


 
Wrong way round my good man i said 5 miles from newry 3 miles dundalk , Were does newry start not the city of newry?


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## Padraigb

hawkmar said:


> wrong Way Round My Good Man I Said 5 Miles From Newry 3 Miles Dundalk , Were Does Newry Start Not The City Of Newry?



3 + 5 = 5 +3.


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## hawkmar

Padraigb said:


> 3 + 5 = 5 +3.


 
Very good, now for the next bit were does newry start? not newry city, an what planet do you live on?


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## terrontress

Padraigb said:


> There is no place on this planet that is 5 miles from Dundalk and 3 miles from Newry, even if you ignore the roads and drive through the fields. The straight-line distance between them is more than 10 miles. I know my stuff.  I don't see great value in using so much fuel and time, and perhaps the cost of a meal out, to save €40 or €50.      My income comes from my neighbours. Most of my spending is local, so that some of their income comes from me. I don't see it as patriotism; I see it as being a good neighbour. And I'd rather spend my money buying stuff from them than spend it as increased tax to support them on the dole.  [PS: I wrote 3 paragraphs, but when I posted, everything was converted into one paragraph.]



This isn't about small shopkeepers. It's about supermarkets. People doing a large shop. I wholeheartedly endorse spending in local retailers but when it comes to spending €200 on a trolley load of groceries from a megamarket, why not do it where you will save 30%.

I will repeat, it is the EU which has enabled us to travel freely, purchase at will and save a few quid. It's also EU membership which has led loads of foreign companies to base their European operations here.

What would you prefer? An Ireland with little or no foreign investment, high unemployment and a big blockade at the border or else the current situation?


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## hawkmar

There was no one complaning when the people in the north were filling there cars &25L drums up with petrol in the south & going back north with it,if the shoe fits wear it, live & let live its turn about if you ask me.


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## MB05

Do you not think that Dunnes and Tesco have a lot of suppliers they use in both markets? The product range in both markets are almost identical. Surely they can offer the Republic of Ireland a better price based on the buying power of both populations.  

I presume the reason Aldi and Lidl are able to significantly undercut the opposition is because they use their buying power to reduce the prices.  Don't get me wrong they are no better than Dunnes & Tesco.  They charge the Irish much more than they do in other countries, even for Irish products!  It's just that they don't have to cut their margins by much to beat the other supermarkets.

The government can't have it both ways.  We are Irish when it suits them.  They are telling us to be good Europeans and to put the good of Europe ahead of the good of Ireland (recent Lisbon Treaty stuff is a prime example), but when it suits them the 6 counties become a foreign country to be avoided, that we are being unpatriotic by shopping elsewhere.

People are going to shop wherever they want regardless of what the government says. 

Even when things were good I wouldn't buy something that was twice the price in a convenience store if I could get it cheaper in a supermarket a few minute further up the road.  With Christmas coming up people have a choice - have a leaner, meaner Christmas or shop around and try to make your money go a little further.  

With the recent spate of sales that could be here in the Republic but it might not be.  It is about time the Irish flexed their consumer muscles and force the big retailers to compete and not just price match.


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## rmelly

So should Mary Harneys advice be 'shop around', as long as you don't commit treason and head to the north?


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## Padraigb

terrontress said:


> This isn't about small shopkeepers. It's about supermarkets. People doing a large shop. I wholeheartedly endorse spending in local retailers but when it comes to spending €200 on a trolley load of groceries from a megamarket, why not do it where you will save 30%.



Has it not crossed your mind that people work in supermarkets? When I spend my money locally, I am not very interested in the profits the supermarket owners make -- generally, they are not my neighbours. I do think about the number of my neighbours who are employed in the shops I use. Their jobs are on the line. In one place where I shop, most of the staff have had their hours cut.

Using your figures of €200 for a load of shopping and a 30% saving that's €60 I could gain at the cost of, say, 15 litres of petrol at €1 per litre, some wear and tear on my car, say 6 hours of my time, and let's allow €6 for a snack. I don't think it is worth it.

But I'm not telling anybody else what to do.


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## Padraigb

hawkmar said:


> Very good, now for the next bit were does newry start? not newry city, an what planet do you live on?



A planet where some people play silly buggers with the facts, and others don't. As we are discussing shopping, it is reasonable to measure distance from the main retailers in one town to the main retailers in the other -- say the Long Walk to the Buttercrane.


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## Guest124

So it's ok for the Government to award contracts to other E.U. Countries but us fools all have to shop at home.


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## bond-007

They are a bunch of hypocrites.


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## hawkmar

Save some money make some jam sambos an take them with you as a snack ,as for petrol free wheel from cloughouge bridge newry co armagh down in to newry city 2 mile FACT.


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## joanmul

Padraigb said:


> 3 + 5 = 5 +3.


 This is getting hilarious.


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## Simeon

BroadbandKen said:


> So it's ok for the Government to award contracts to other E.U. Countries but us fools all have to shop at home.


Well said!


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## europhile

They are under an obligation to seek tenders on an EU-wide basis.

And nobody is making anybody shop at home.  We have freewill.


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## hawkmar

joanmul said:


> This is getting hilarious.


Glad ur injoyin it! whats life if you cant laugh!!


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## PaddyBloggit

europhile said:


> They are under an obligation to seek tenders on an EU-wide basis.
> 
> And nobody is making anybody shop at home.  We have freewill.




Understood that we have free will but in times of recession home Governments should be free to award contracts to home businesses. There isn't much point in supporting the business of another country if those around you are crumbling.

The EU is great when times are good, but fair is fair, we all have to protect our own.


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## bond-007

http://www.independent.ie/national-...-all-roads-to-northern-el-dorado-1558323.html


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## hawkmar

bond-007 said:


> http://www.independent.ie/national-...-all-roads-to-northern-el-dorado-1558323.html


Think that sums it all up,lucky for me i know the back roads in to newry,lol.


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## europhile

PaddyBloggit said:


> The EU is great when times are good, but fair is fair, we all have to protect our own.



So we should grab whatever's going and then tell the EU to eff off with themselves when it doesn't suit us?


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## PaddyBloggit

europhile said:


> So we should grab whatever's going and then tell the EU to eff off with themselves when it doesn't suit us?




Nope .... it should be an EU wide agreement .... we should all agree to protect our own.


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## Kingdom

So if everyone in the Republic shopped in the North who would fund the Councils who provide everyone with local services? 

Remember it's only businesses who pay Council / Corporation Rates.


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## PaddyBloggit

People deal with the reality of the cash in their pockets.

If the Republic becomes cheaper than the North the shoppers will stay at home and those North will come South. Only the Government has the power to help Irish businesses become competitive again. Irish businesses also have to keep their profit margins realistic. People aren't going to pay anymore than they can get away with. Economic reality also makes people very sensitive to prices and more especially to rip off prices.


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## Kingdom

The only problem with your analysis Paddy is that it's those who choose to shop at home that make it possible for the rest to shop abroad!


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## PaddyBloggit

A vicious circle Kingdom ...... and now with the differences in VAT widening today the exodus will continue.


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## Kingdom

PaddyBloggit said:


> A vicious circle Kingdom ...... and now with the differences in VAT widening today the exodus will continue.


 
I would love if RTE or some journalist carried out a survey of those heading North to ascertain where they worked. It would make interesting reading! I would be particularly interested in the percentage of State and Semi State employees in the crowd.


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## theoneill

I think retailers and the government should take a long hard look at how they do business it the republic. There is something seriously wrong with a system that makes it far cheaper to travel 100 + miles and wait in traffic for hours than to pop into town for the same items. If they do nothing the problem will only get worse. Also having the leader of our country put his hands in the air and say that he can do nothing doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. If I took that attitude in work I’d be sacked. Maybe if the government sat down and asked themselves ‘what can we do?’ and thrashed out solutions to stem the flow I would be more inclined to listen.


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## Padraigb

Well, among the things that might be done is to reduce the wages of those who work in retail and related activities. That would work only if we reduced the minimum wage for everybody else as well, and we forced all pay down.

Do you think that is a runner?


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## theoneill

It may have to be, there are many sectors here that had to take a pay cut. But I’m more interested in seeing what the profit margins are on the large chain stores that operate here. I have a feeling if they are ever published the reaction will be much the same as when price gouging by solicitors and insurance companies was revealed a few years back.

I would never expect Irish stores to be able to match the UK chains. But up to a 40% difference is pulling the proverbial. Irish stores don’t need to undercut the stores in the north they just need to make it unattractive to shop there. For example if the difference was 15% or under I would be unwilling to make the journey.

Just off the top of my head consider the following.

Dublin
High charges to park ones car
Heavily congested streets
Silly prices charged for goods and services
On street parking restricted to 3 hours

North
May have all of these issues save for one – up to a 40% saving.

When it all comes down to it thousands have been taken out of my pocket this year and next and just like the government my family will have to make up the shortfall somehow. In my case that involves spending money over the border that may otherwise been spent locally and unless something changes that’s the way it will continue.


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## ubiquitous

theoneill said:


> Just off the top of my head consider the following.
> 
> Dublin
> High charges to park ones car
> Heavily congested streets
> Silly prices charged for goods and services
> On street parking restricted to 3 hours
> 
> North
> May have all of these issues save for one – up to a 40% saving.



Price of parking in Belfast Intl Airport (long-term car park) for 50 hours (3pm Friday 'til 5pm Sunday) recently - £33 Sterling.

Also, fwiw, in my experience most Northern towns suffer from worse traffic congestion than their counterpart towns in the South. Most have so-called bypasses than go through the town rather than outside it. 

For example, Enniskillen, Omagh, Strabane, Armagh and Portadown all have "bypasses" similar to the disastrous one in Navan that goes through the town centre. They don't seem to have the sort of decent bypasses that the likes of Naas, Athlone or Mullingar enjoy.


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## theoneill

All true but if I want to get my christmas shopping I'll still save money. That's what it boiles down to.


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## krissovo

This situation has been happening for years especially in Europe once the borders opened up.

The Irish shopped en-mass in New York when the money was there
The UK has booze cruises to France
The Danish flood into Germany to shop and buy fuel
The Germans shop in Poland
The Dutch shop in Germany
The Germans buy fuel in Holland
The Belgium's shop in France
Gibraltar residents now shop in Spain 

This phenomenon of going up North will continue and unless retailers adapt then it will be their death.  

I think its time to accept that it will happen and move on with the times.  Now is the time for business to innovate by re-working business models and looking to increase efficiencies.


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## ubiquitous

krissovo said:


> Now is the time for business to innovate by re-working business models and looking to increase efficiencies.



But, hampered by 43% higher VAT and similarly higher minimum wage levels, this is a tall order.


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## theoneill

Don’t be surprised if they increase prices to stimulate demand


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## terrontress

Regardless of VAT and costs, these two items which someone posted elsewhere are the same item, same retailer but the costs are astronomically different.





I presume that a Bosch product is neither made in Ireland nor the UK. Most likely Germany or the far east so the same company has to import it into both UK and Ireland.

UK VAT on the product will be in the £7 region. Add on 43% of £7. Still brings you no closer to understanding why it is more expensive in ROI than UK.

Argos know people will buy it at that price south of the border and don't care about alienating their customers as it is not their core customer base.

And if someone, in disgust, decides to buy that item in the North instead what happens? They go straight to Argos in Newry! Win win situation.

I think people should freely shop in the North but only go to retailers who are not in ROI.


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## Kingdom

Please remember that as the poorer people in this society don't have the wherewithall to travel North or to the USA for that matter, it is they who are funding the fancy jobs of the greedy who go on their jaunts in order to save a couple of Euros.


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## krissovo

ubiquitous said:


> But, hampered by 43% higher VAT and similarly higher minimum wage levels, this is a tall order.



I 100% agree with you but the story is worse in say Denmark with higher tax and labour costs, border towns are now ghost towns.  

There will be casualties especially if business ignores what is happening, they need to plan for the future.


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## terrontress

Kingdom said:


> Please remember that as the poorer people in this society don't have the wherewithall to travel North or to the USA for that matter, it is they who are funding the fancy jobs of the greedy who go on their jaunts in order to save a couple of Euros.


 
Does your name reflect your location?

A spin up the M1 in a 1997 Astra is hardly a jaunt by someone with a fancy job.

What about looking at it this way: The people going up North will make the retailers in Ireland work harder and lead to a reduction in prices, the benefits of which will be reaped throughout the 26 counties.

Those people going up on their jaunts are saving you money in the long run!!!


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## krissovo

Kingdom said:


> it is they who are funding the fancy jobs of the greedy who go on their jaunts in order to save a couple of Euros.



Not entirely true, in my business not 1 cent comes from Ireland.  My business is European so it comes from the UK, Western and Northern Europe.  

When setting up in Ireland the primary driver was cost saving with lower average wages than the rest of Europe, this is no longer the case so Ireland has priced itself out of the budget markets.


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## ubiquitous

terrontress said:


> What about looking at it this way: The people going up North will make the retailers in Ireland work harder and lead to a reduction in prices, the benefits of which will be reaped throughout the 26 counties.
> 
> Those people going up on their jaunts are saving you money in the long run!!!



Sadly, this wasn't the result of the same phenomenon in the 1980s.


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## terrontress

ubiquitous said:


> Sadly, this wasn't the result of the same phenomenon in the 1980s.


 
Yeah, I'm just trying to yank the chain of Kingdom.

Maybe I could argue with him that it is the fat-cats who can afford to lord it up, being able to throw money away by shopping south of the border whereas the poor people like me have to climb into the old Astra and head up the road.


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## theoneill

I remember my mother going up to the north in the 80’s for some good deals though they had that 24 hour rule (at least I think so) back then. Going to the north is nothing new. This has been a slow burner for some time and now it has exploded. The only option open to retailers here is to reduce prices or risk going out of business.


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## TarfHead

theoneill said:


> I remember my mother going up to the north in the 80’s for some good deals


 
My parents bought our first colour TV in Lurgan in 1974/5. The cost of was GBP 199 which, in those days, was the same in IEP. We were stopped at the border on the way back and my father argued that we were within our rights to take it across without paying duty. At that time, the personal allowance was £50 per adult. So, adding the allowances of my parents and my older sister and brother, we were covered, i.e. £50 x 4 = 200, against cost of TV £199.

The Customs man laughed and waved us through.


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## rabbit

DerKaiser said:


> we should all be careful here, particularly those of us who are paid more than our UK counterparts.
> 
> The only way shops down here can compete with shops up north is if their cost base is the same. I think costs are higher. We can't blame the shopkeeper if they have to pay higher wages, higher insurance, higher wholesale prices, higher advertising costs.
> 
> The only logical conclsuion is that anyone who is paid more than their UK counterparts should take their pay cut


 
hear hear, well said


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## Kingdom

krissovo said:


> Not entirely true, in my business not 1 cent comes from Ireland. My business is European so it comes from the UK, Western and Northern Europe.
> 
> When setting up in Ireland the primary driver was cost saving with lower average wages than the rest of Europe, this is no longer the case so Ireland has priced itself out of the budget markets.


 
My reference to the poor is that, it is they who are keeping your average business in operation because they have no choice but to shop local. The proof of my point is that if everyone went North to shop, our economy would collapse in just the same way as the Petrol/Diesel businesses within 25 miles North of the border went out of business due to lower prices here.

I agree with your point - The high overheads of businesses in Ireland are the the principal (but not the only) cause of the high prices. So if you want cheaper prices you must lower your overheads 
i.e. Lower wages (especially) from the top down.(our Taoiseach earns more than the USA President!) e.g. In Germany state employees have not had a pay rise since East & West were unified more than 6 years ago! 
Local Councils here screw small businesses for Rates instead of running an efficient operation and making unnecessary staff redundant.

Also,
It may not be widely known that our politicians many of whom are in receipt of very large salaries are often in receipt of large pensions as well because at some time in the past they were a minister in government! This is a gross insult to every taxpayer many of whom who will never earn the amount of money the TD earns from the Pension.


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## terrontress

Kingdom said:


> The proof of my point is that if everyone went North to shop, our economy would collapse in just the same way as the Petrol/Diesel businesses within 25 miles North of the border went out of business due to lower prices here.



If people in Germany, France, Spain and Italy were to refuse to buy Dell Computers made in Limerick, Microsoft products manufactured in Dublin from software written in Dublin, Intel and HP products from Leixlip, Financial products from the IFSC, Pfizer, Apple, Abbot, Nortel etc. etc. because they are not contributing to the local economies then where would Ireland be.

We are part of a system that allows free trade and I for one think Ireland is better as part of that system (EU) than outside of it as without the companies above, we wouldn't have the money to make the choice to go North to spend hundreds on drink and food.

Another point is that Ireland has for over a quarter of a century been a net recipient from the EU. All those infrastructural projects were funded from the EU. The first not to be has been the Port Tunnel.

Shopping over the border, which has arisen as a result of government mismanagement, seems to be the first negative to EU membership.


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## Kingdom

terrontress said:


> If people in Germany, France, Spain and Italy were to refuse to buy Dell Computers made in Limerick, Microsoft products manufactured in Dublin from software written in Dublin, Intel and HP products from Leixlip, Financial products from the IFSC, Pfizer, Apple, Abbot, Nortel etc. etc. because they are not contributing to the local economies then where would Ireland be.
> 
> We are part of a system that allows free trade and I for one think Ireland is better as part of that system (EU) than outside of it as without the companies above, we wouldn't have the money to make the choice to go North to spend hundreds on drink and food.
> 
> Another point is that Ireland has for over a quarter of a century been a net recipient from the EU. All those infrastructural projects were funded from the EU. The first not to be has been the Port Tunnel.
> 
> Shopping over the border, which has arisen as a result of government mismanagement, seems to be the first negative to EU membership.


 
This thread is referring to Retailling not manufacturing which is a whole different discussion. 
It about spending your income which has been obtained locally in your local economy. 
As previously stated the people heading Northward will be the first to cry and complain about the lack of local shopping facilities to cater for their needs when they don't have the time and or the money to travel North.


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## brazen_dude

Was in Newry today.... Bought few items in Argos... dont know how Argos can justify such a huge difference in prices...

Philips Avent Electric steriliser - 39.17£ .... ROI Price @ Argos - 71.99€ 
Mamas and Papas Infant Carrier with Base - 53.82£ ... ROI Price @ Argos - 82.49€


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## Kingdom

Did you price around in Irish Shops? You might be pleasantly surprised sometimes. Argos is often the dearest for goods which they don't buy in bulk from China. i.e. electrical goods which they must purchase from the normal supply routes. I'm in the computer business and my prices are more often cheaper than dearer than Argos plus I have an after sales service which Argos doesn't even dream about. 

P.S.
Irish Consumer law states that a business which sells a product must provide an after sales support service for that product. 
But like a lot of laws in Ireland it isn't enforced. If it was, then Argos, Harvey Go Home, Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc., etc. would be stopped from selling boxes and washing their hands of them afterwards.
If a Family business like myself operated in such an unprofessional manner we would be put out of business by the courts. 

P.P.S.
By supporting Non Irish owned businesses all the profit earned leaves the country never to return. So it doesn't matter at all whether you shop in the Republic or the North when you support Argos.


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## allthedoyles

Kingdom said:


> But like a lot of laws in Ireland it isn't enforced. If it was, then Argos, Harvey Go Home, Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc., etc. would be stopped from selling boxes and washing their hands of them afterwards.
> So it doesn't matter at all whether you shop in the Republic or the North when you support Argos.


 
I have found Aldi and Lidl may not provide after-sales service , but they do offer refund / exchange when you produce receipt.

True , its silly us giving our hard earned cash to all those UK companies .............but do we have an alternative ?


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## chrisboy

Kingdom said:


> Did you price around in Irish Shops? You might be pleasantly surprised sometimes. Argos is often the dearest for goods which they don't buy in bulk from China. i.e. electrical goods which they must purchase from the normal supply routes. I'm in the computer business and my prices are more often cheaper than dearer than Argos plus I have an after sales service which Argos doesn't even dream about.
> 
> P.S.
> Irish Consumer law states that a business which sells a product must provide an after sales support service for that product.
> But like a lot of laws in Ireland it isn't enforced. If it was, then Argos, Harvey Go Home, Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc., etc. would be stopped from selling boxes and washing their hands of them afterwards.
> If a Family business like myself operated in such an unprofessional manner we would be put out of business by the courts.
> 
> P.P.S.
> By supporting Non Irish owned businesses all the profit earned leaves the country never to return. So it doesn't matter at all whether you shop in the Republic or the North when you support Argos.




But if your gonna shop in argos, it might as well be the one in Newry, at least then your stopping 30-40% of your money going out of the country!


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## Kingdom

1. Did you cost how much fuel you burned to get there? 
2. Did you cost how much of your time (& that of those who travelled with you), you wasted getting there & back (@ the Irish Minimum Wage!)? 
3. Did you cost what productive things you could have done with your time instead of sitting in a car for several hours? 
4. Did you cost the wear and tear on your car to get there? 

I'd place a large bet that having costed those items, you are now losing.

P.S.
There is also something which no one has spoken of - Does everyone going on these unnecessary journeys ever consider that they may be involved in a car accident resulting in Death or Serious Injury? Given the large volume of vehicles on the roads, the Risks you are taking are Enormous. And if you travel on this unnecessary journey more than once, you are increasing the Risk many times over. 
So if you are unfortunate to end up Profoundly Disabled or worse DEAD, will your great saving scheme be worth it then???

Also Note
The common human condition known as the 'it won't happen to me syndrome' won't save you.


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## Kingdom

allthedoyles said:


> I have found Aldi and Lidl may not provide after-sales service , but they do offer refund / exchange when you produce receipt.
> 
> True , its silly us giving our hard earned cash to all those UK companies .............but do we have an alternative ?


 

Yes, don't spend you money on rubbish you don't need or want. Most people purchase junk in Aldi and Lidl because it's cheap - they neither want nor need it.
In my business I visit other peoples houses and I'm just amazed at the stuff they buy. In fact within a couple of weeks of their opening here, I stopped my wife from purchasing junk in Lidl and Aldi. 

Supermarkets exist to sell you stuff you don't need. And then people demand higher wages to fund this ridiculous unnecessary spending. 

Our country is now Fuxxed because everyone thinks we have to borrow/spend, borrow/spend borrow/spend to buy stuff not needed as well as fuel gussling 4x4s (every second vehicle on the road is a 4x4, how crazy is that?) and manufactured in China, India, Taiwan, etc. etc. thereby causing a massive drain of money outward, never to return.

When this recession turns into a depression and more and more jobs are lost, you won't have to worry about going to the North cause you won't have the money. 
I'm a business man and I only purchase essentials, I do my own maintenance at home and in business and have done so for many years cause I seen this comming for years - it's nuts behaviour and no one believed the warnings given by the economists, even our genius of a former Taoiseach told them to commit suicide. (With people like him running the country, it's easy to see why we're now 'the basket case' of the world and ridiculed in the NY Times)


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## Kingdom

allthedoyles said:


> I have found Aldi and Lidl may not provide after-sales service , but they do offer refund / exchange when you produce receipt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Argos, Tesco, Dunnes etc. etc. they have no choice otherwise the government would close them down instantly.
> Argos would like you to think they are giving you a 16 day no quibble returns from the kindness of their heart but they aren't - they also have no choice because they are in effect breaking the consumer law - which states that they must provide after sales service.
> 
> In England where Argos have been operating for many years, most of their shops are empty because people have realised that returning stuff is costing them money in time and effort and that if you purchase your products from a small business who's staff are trained & knowledgeable in the use of the goods which they are selling and who provide proper after sales support, repairs etc. then they won't require a refund.
> 
> P.S.
> Judging by the way chains have been operating i.e their life blood is DEBT, their top management suck massive sums of money out of the business in bonuses, perks etc. (they take their share holders for a ride) then there's a good possiblity that Argos mightn't be around too much longer.
Click to expand...


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## Complainer

Kingdom said:


> P.S.
> Irish Consumer law states that a business which sells a product must provide an after sales support service for that product.
> But like a lot of laws in Ireland it isn't enforced.


Are you certain about this? I've never heard of this before. Do you have any source for this?


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## terrontress

Kingdom said:


> I'm in the computer business and my prices are more often cheaper than dearer than Argos plus I have an after sales service which Argos doesn't even dream about.


 
I had guessed by some of your earlier posts, which flew in the face of reason, that you had to have some form of vested interest.


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## Kingdom

Explain how my earlier posts fly in the face of reason.

Maybe if you studied how an economic entity works you might realise that my reasoning makes obvious sense.


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## terrontress

Kingdom said:


> Explain how my earlier posts fly in the face of reason.


 
Because legions of people have come on here and elsewhere and explained that, given the currency fluctuation, they have been able to go to Northern Ireland and either save money on large purchases or buy items that they would not ordinarily due to their prices being lower in Northern Ireland.

You have repeatedly insisted again and again, in spite of all this testimony, that it is more expensive to go to Northern Ireland.



> Maybe if you studied how an economic entity works you might realise that my reasoning makes obvious sense.


 
Makes sense to a small businessman trying to differentiate his product. Might not make sense to a consumer.

My father in law will only buy from local retailers. PC, TV, DIY materials. He likes talking to someone who knows what they are talking about and can give him advice.

But consumer items are disposable these days. It used to be you'd buy a TV and get it fixed when it invariably went wrong. Nowadays, you buy a TV. If it breaks in the period of the manufacturer's warranty you send it back to them. If it breaks after that you buy a new one of a different brand.

An independent retailer can do no different for you in terms of after sales service.


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## Mpsox

Kingdom said:


> 1. Did you cost how much fuel you burned to get there?
> 2. Did you cost how much of your time (& that of those who travelled with you), you wasted getting there & back (@ the Irish Minimum Wage!)?
> 3. Did you cost what productive things you could have done with your time instead of sitting in a car for several hours?
> 4. Did you cost the wear and tear on your car to get there?
> 
> I'd place a large bet that having costed those items, you are now losing.
> 
> P.S.
> There is also something which no one has spoken of - Does everyone going on these unnecessary journeys ever consider that they may be involved in a car accident resulting in Death or Serious Injury? Given the large volume of vehicles on the roads, the Risks you are taking are Enormous. And if you travel on this unnecessary journey more than once, you are increasing the Risk many times over.
> So if you are unfortunate to end up Profoundly Disabled or worse DEAD, will your great saving scheme be worth it then???
> 
> Also Note
> The common human condition known as the 'it won't happen to me syndrome' won't save you.


 
I travelled to Newry yesterday for my reguler every 4-6 weeks trip. On average, having costed in the price of diesal I saved approx €300 as I usually do. As someone who drives 40000 miles + per annum the few extra miles won't do that much to my car and as for the risk of being killed, if I worried about that, I'd never leave home. Anyway, it's a statistical fact that over a third of car crashes happen within a mile of home. I reckon that on average, I save around €4-€5k a year.

I buy electrical goods locally, mostly for the after sales service if it is needed and the ease of being able to dispose of the original goods

One amazing thing about shopping in the North is that there seems to be genuine competition on prices, I don't see that in the south. For example, one baby product was priced at the exact same price in 3 major supermarkets in Carlow and Naas for months on end, and when one retailer finally increased it, they all did

I have no arguement that Irish retailers face higher costs, eg wages, insurance and VAT. However there is no excuse for their abject and ongoing failure to implement correct exchange rates for goods. 

One last point for Kingdom, and please be honest when you answer this question. If the situation was reversed, and Northern Ireland shoppers were travelling to your shop to do their shopping, would you refuse their custom on the grounds you've outlined previously????


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## brazen_dude

Even for the likes of necessity cosmetics/grocery like Toothpastes etc i saved a great deal.... Sensodyne pronamel 5.85€ in tesco, where as i paid 2.45£ in newry... Aquafresh Extreme clean 3.94€ in tesco, 0.99£ in newry... these prices are not even deals but regular prices in buttercrane.... so Tesco and other supermarkets are really ripping us off here in south....


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## terrontress

Kingdom, the kind of two posts above are what I mean by flying in the face of reason.

And your assertion about being at increased risk of death on the roads is simply ridiculous.

The main route for travel to the North is the M1. Probably the safest route in the entire country.


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## divadsnilloc

Are shopping centres etc open on Sunday's in NI?


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## bond-007

Yes, from 1pm to 6pm.


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## killybram

Rip off Lidl ROI - Kinder Happy hippo kids biscuit/bars - €1.85 in ROI. £0.89 in NI!!!!


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## terrontress

I see that Ikea in Dublin is due to open on July 27th.

Given that Sterling has taken another battering after its brief rally, I wonder will many people prefer to make a 2hr journey North instead.

If you compare the Ikea prices in Germany, France and UK, it would seem that it will be cheaper if you are decking a place out to go North.


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## bullworth

My apologies if this is in the wrong 'North -Shopping' related thread but I remember reading somewhere on this forum about a man with a van who will do your shopping for a small fee. 
I am having trouble finding the link for this. 
Can someone please direct me to his website or to where his contact details are posted on this forum ?


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## AgathaC

There is a thread called 'shopping in newry-any advice' where this is mentioned, I dont know if there are contact details given.


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## MB05

I think the site was called dealhunter.ie


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## bullworth

MB05 said:


> I think the site was called dealhunter.ie



Thanks for that. I emailed the site and got a response today.

Does anyone know if Argos deliver to the Republic/Dublin on orders made on their UK website at UK prices ?


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## terrontress

No, they don't. It has to be in the UK.

I got a flyer through the door for someone doing runs to the North. Man with Van type thing.

Phone Adrian on 087 7549767.

Just make sure you don't give him any money in advance.


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## falabo

lol just popping in here quickly lads, had my NCT today in Kells early so then I thought ... I'll drive to Enniskillen it's only down the road ...

went to ASDA. great bargains but something that really annoyed me once again and I do believe at this stage that there will never be an end to "rip off Ireland", check this out:

Green Giant soups: regular price 72p

in the Republic (Dunnes Stoes): "hal price promotion" reduced from €1.99 to €0.99

Guys, seriously, what's going on? is this ever going to stop? (I know, higher wages, higher VAT but I don't believe in a difference of over 100%)


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## Protocol

I assume no VAT on soup, so forget about that.

Yes, higher wages and overheads means DS have to make more gross profit margin than Asda.

But, another reason is the suppliers charging much higher prices to DS than to Asda.


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## bullworth

In the end I went to Newry and didnt use Dealhunter.ie but it seems like a fantastic service apart from reservations I might have about what would happen to the product I paid for to be delivered to their warehouse if they subsequently folded. I am aware that if I purchase a product via credit card and the company subsequently folds without delivery then I have some kind of protection yet with Dealhunter.ie I would be paying for the product to be delivered to their warehouse and then pay them separately for delivery. If they can reassure their customers who conduct business with them at arms length about what kind of protection exists then they would do a lot better !

One of the things I bought is this:




Now look for one moment at the Argos UK site and compare prices.



A saving of €299.21 !

*How the hell can a Dyson DC15 Hoover cost €519.99 in Dublin yet be €220.78 in Newry which is only one and a half hours from Dublin city centre !!??!!*


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## Celtwytch

bullworth said:


> *How the hell can a Dyson DC15 Hoover cost €519.99 in Dublin yet be €220.78 in Newry which is only one and a half hours from Dublin city centre !!??!!*


 
That is but one of the many unanswered questions in life!


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## dinjoecurry

[Originally Posted by bullworth [
How the hell can a Dyson DC15 Hoover cost €519.99 in Dublin yet be €220.78 in Newry which is only one and a half hours from Dublin city centre !!


Its worse than that. The Argos price in Ireland is €519.99 but the argos price in UK is £195.79 If you shop in Argos you support a UK retailer who is treating us like idiots.I wonder if the price is being controlled by Dyson because the price difference cannot be otherwise explained?Answer is don't buy dyson


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## bullworth

Celtwytch said:


> That is but one of the many unanswered questions in life!





dinjoecurry said:


> [Originally Posted by bullworth [
> How the hell can a Dyson DC15 Hoover cost €519.99 in Dublin yet be €220.78 in Newry which is only one and a half hours from Dublin city centre !!
> 
> 
> Its worse than that. The Argos price in Ireland is €519.99 but the argos price in UK is £195.79 If you shop in Argos you support a UK retailer who is treating us like idiots.I wonder if the price is being controlled by Dyson because the price difference cannot be otherwise explained?Answer is don't buy dyson




I wonder is there a chance that someone using this forum is working in the Irish retail business (in particular selling hoovers) who in the interests of the country could explain on this forum (and doesnt have to tell us who he is)  why this particular product is selling for over twice the price in the South ?


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## bullworth

Further to my Dyson story I think this charging more than other stores is a Argos phenomenon.

For example, at DID Electrical , a Dyson DC23 Animal Bagless Hoover is €284.95

[broken link removed]


Yet in Dublin at Argos it's €449.99



Even the Argos UK price of £293.59 sterling =315.661117 Euros is beaten by DID.




So I guess the moral is that Argos can be very expensive.


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## callybags

*How the hell can a Dyson DC15 Hoover cost €519.99 in Dublin yet be €220.78 in Newry which is only one and a half hours from Dublin city centre !!??!!* 

Presumably because there are poeple prepared to pay this amount.


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## Kine

Indeed. A very interesting read this thread (apart from some random tangents!!)

I recently went up to IKEA (as I'm sure half the country has by now) on a Saturday, and it was amaxing, literally every car in teh car park had a republic reg! It will be interesting to see what price discrepancies will be between the two stores, as they will both be literally within a 90 minute drive of each other!

On a slightly different note, I am friends with a guy who works in TESCO over in the UK. You know those adds where they talk about how "Aldi are cheaper on 2,000 products, Tesco on 4,000" etc on any given date? Well this is all a scam, as he worked in the pricing department, and _they _literally reduced the price by 1p versus their competition...and hey presto...cheaper!

How much is anything worth? How much someone is willing to pay. We have been willing to pay too much in this country for too long....


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## mcaul

I work in retail and I can state catergorically that argos & debenhams are way overpriced compared to even small independent stores here.

I have a store in Carlow and on each and every comparable product that I stock and that is available in Argos / Debenhams (about 200 products) I, as a small independent retail am on average 23% cheaper than either of them and on some products up to 37% cheaper.

- Yep I have signs up and I have a list of all the products and the prices as per 2009 catalogue & debenhams Newbridge. (just in case they complain)

Both of these stores are taking Irish consumers for fools. - I can say that many independent retailers who have moved their prices with the movements of sterling deserve support


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## peaceboi

Hi guys....Am after few baby stuffs (Incl. cloths, prams & seats) 4 my newborn, Do believe such stuffs would be way cheaper than here in the North. Does any1 knw if there is a Smyth's or Mamas & Papas kinda shops @ Newry? Would b very gr8ful! Thanks a lot.


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## Fatphrog

Try www.yell.com


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## Celtwytch

peaceboi said:


> Hi guys....Am after few baby stuffs (Incl. cloths, prams & seats) 4 my newborn, Do believe such stuffs would be way cheaper than here in the North. Does any1 knw if there is a Smyth's or Mamas & Papas kinda shops @ Newry? Would b very gr8ful! Thanks a lot.


 
And please don't use text speak:

3A. Please write clearly and avoid using text speakPlease take a little time to write your post carefully. Use complete sentences. Use paragraphs for longer posts. Do not use Text Speak.


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## hopalong

i 2nd dat no more txt speak.


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