# FAS FETAC Course - GUBU



## galleyslave (3 Nov 2009)

ok, can you believe this. My wife is not entitled to dole as she was self employed so she has had to wait for a FAS course to be available to get some money in the door. Course in question is a level 4 FETAC course. In the first week they did nothing but icebreakers. Yesterday they did some really basic stuff on filing and then discussed what would happen today. Apparently today they will be organising the Xmas party. She was also asked to supply crayons and a picture as they will be doing a collage. They also were encouraged to bring in some plants, pictures etc to brighten the place up. Now, while I'm glad we're getting in some extra income, I can't believe the lack of content in this course so far. It's literally kindergarten stuff. We're partly amused and partly outraged at the waste of money. God save Ireland...


----------



## Complainer (4 Nov 2009)

What is the course topic?

If it is a mess, take some action. Contact the local FAS training centre management. If that doesn't work, get onto the meeja.


----------



## galleyslave (5 Nov 2009)

it's a reception skills course - apparently they're finally doing relevant stuff, but it's taken a week and a half. We don't wish to rock the boat given how we need the money from the course and any future courses she may get on.

Just thought it worth mentioning. I dunno if it's the norm or not.


----------



## BONDGIRL (5 Nov 2009)

Defo seems like a waster of money... but then again you getting the few quid so yes maybe keep it shut!


----------



## Staples (5 Nov 2009)

Out of curiousity, did she specifically ask to do a reception skills course or was did the FAS rep suggest it?


----------



## Newbie! (5 Nov 2009)

A long long time ago, I used to teach some basic/intermediate IT courses for FAS. The content of the courses was appalling and I recall spending hours trawling the internet to look for new sources of practice tests etc. FAS supplied me with nothing. Also, when I queried a particular exam that the students had to sit (City & Guilds), there was some question that referenced a typewriter and literally could not be attempted by students, I was told just to give some sort of mark and it didnt really matter.

Shocking stuff really.


----------



## johnd (5 Nov 2009)

Same experience with family members and friends who did FAS courses. unless it is for a trade/training course, which can be independently verified, most of them are rubbish. Had a relative who did a Return to Work course for women. They did relaxation classes, drawing classes in Stephens Green, music therapy. after a few weeks they did basic computer skills. Very, very basic skills.
The whole thing was a joke. They got the impression it was really run for the benefit of the staff.


----------



## Mpsox (5 Nov 2009)

I'm actually a partially qualifed blocklayer from a FAS course. Years ago, when I was doing work experience from College (doing a business degree) for 6 months, FAS took 3 of us on for office and some project work We subsequently found out that they had 3 unfilled vacancies on a block laying course, they registered us for that and paid us as being on that course. We even got a cert at the end. We were known as the posh brickies as we had a collar and tie when we were getting our pay slips with the rest of the course. £57 a week we got back then if me memory is correct

That was 22 years ago, I thought times may have changed them, looks like that is not the case


----------



## galleyslave (5 Nov 2009)

Staples said:


> Out of curiousity, did she specifically ask to do a reception skills course or was did the FAS rep suggest it?



it was the first course available to her. given she's got no dole coming in and can't find work, she'd have taken a course in how to walk chew gum were one available


----------



## galleyslave (5 Nov 2009)

johnd said:


> Same experience with family members and friends who did FAS courses. unless it is for a trade/training course, which can be independently verified, most of them are rubbish. Had a relative who did a Return to Work course for women. They did relaxation classes, drawing classes in Stephens Green, music therapy. after a few weeks they did basic computer skills. Very, very basic skills.
> The whole thing was a joke. They got the impression it was really run for the benefit of the staff.



sounds familiar. they are doing some typing today so thats something relevant although earlier in the day they were making a collage of pictures on the wall (WTF?)


----------



## Staples (5 Nov 2009)

galleyslave said:


> sounds familiar. they are doing some typing today so thats something relevant although earlier in the day they were making a collage of pictures on the wall (WTF?)


 
LOL.  My four-year-old did something similar at school in the run-up to halloween.


----------



## Complainer (5 Nov 2009)

galleyslave said:


> it's a reception skills course - apparently they're finally doing relevant stuff, but it's taken a week and a half. We don't wish to rock the boat given how we need the money from the course and any future courses she may get on.


While I understand your reluctance to make a fuss, nothing is going to change unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted.


----------



## galleyslave (5 Nov 2009)

Complainer said:


> While I understand your reluctance to make a fuss, nothing is going to change unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted.



agreed, but the sensible thing is to do it once she gets work, not while she is utterly dependant on FAS to get any money at all.


----------



## Newbie! (5 Nov 2009)

Do they not have to fill in an evaluation at the end of the course? Wouldn't count on anything changing but they at least have the opportunity to comment.


----------



## ney001 (5 Nov 2009)

Jeeze her one sounds pretty bad...... crayons? you'd think that will all that money on expenses somebody could have bought a few boxes of crayons!


----------



## Joanne1 (5 Nov 2009)

Madness.  Sounds like playschool.

Hopefully some of the other courses they offer are more challenging.


----------



## galleyslave (5 Nov 2009)

did I tell ye that they were told that they need to put a fiver aside each week for the xmas party and if they didnt go they'd get it back and to look at it like a savings scheme... 
it really is playschool


----------



## liaconn (5 Nov 2009)

Will they be allowed alcohol at the Christmas bash or just mi wadi orange and jelly and ice cream?


----------



## TarfHead (5 Nov 2009)

There was a story/urban myth doing the rounds years ago about a FAS, or ANCO, course where they practiced telephone answering skills. They hadn't telephones to practise with, so they used bananas.

Or so the story goes.

Maybe things haven't change that much since then ?


----------



## Sunny (5 Nov 2009)

Can we possibly pass on this thread to Shane Ross? If, (and I am not doubting the OP considering some of the stories I have heard about FAS course) it really is a joke. 

On a related subject, my girlfriend lost her job a year ago and was told by FAS to dumb down her cv to help her find employment. When she said she worked damn hard for that cv and wouldn't dumb it down, she was told she deserved to be unemployed. She was then offered a ECDL course.


----------



## liaconn (5 Nov 2009)

Do they just throw you onto any random course, regardless of your skills and working history?


----------



## annet (5 Nov 2009)

Sounds so familiar - worked with a person who was doing manual book-keeping course... - nobody knew what they were doing - tutor was crap - and then these students were expected to do exams - which coincidently a high percentage failed - typically no questions asked by those in authority!


----------



## Sunny (5 Nov 2009)

liaconn said:


> Do they just throw you onto any random course, regardless of your skills and working history?


 
In theory no but in practice yes. From what I hear they are really struggling with the new type of unemployed person that they are seeing i.e. well educated and qualified. They are just not set up to deal with them


----------



## Newbie! (6 Nov 2009)

annet said:


> Sounds so familiar - worked with a person who was doing manual book-keeping course... - nobody knew what they were doing - tutor was crap - and then these students were expected to do exams - which coincidently a high percentage failed - typically no questions asked by those in authority!



In defence of some tutors (granted there are some fairly weak ones) the course syllabi and learning outcomes are often so shocking that they have very little to work from. Alot of these people only get paid for the hours they teach, although they spend an equal amount of time outside of the training room, trying to devise materials. I think most of the blame has to be allocated to the curriculum depts in FAS


----------



## galleyslave (6 Nov 2009)

according to my other half they actually did some relevant content on filing and typing yesterday so perhaps its just a very slow burner... 
I still think wasting a week and a bit is an outrageous waste, in particular given our current economic state. 

Sunny, I can see the logic in dumbing down a CV in order to apply for a particular role but that doesn't excuse what she was told


----------



## Joanne1 (6 Nov 2009)

I would be very annoyed if I was advised to dumb down my CV.

When I was looking for a new job a few years ago,  I registered with FAS.  Have to say it was a very positive experience.  The lady I met with was very encouraging and gave some good advice (at a time when I was getting low in confidence).

I also know a lady who did a course with FAS years ago.  She speaks very highly of it.  She has since worked her way up into a good job.  Without that course she may never have re-entered the workforce, she had been a stay at home mother for years.

So maybe they do provide some decent courses.


----------



## JJ1982 (6 Nov 2009)

Can I add 2cents here. My mother is also doing a Level4 reception skills course with Fetac and there are tears at home every night as she cannot keep up wiht the work load. I reckon it varies massively from course to course


----------



## galleyslave (6 Nov 2009)

liaconn said:


> Do they just throw you onto any random course, regardless of your skills and working history?


there was no pressure on her to do it, but it was the first course that had places available and was the only way for her to get an income


----------



## GreenQueen (6 Nov 2009)

Sunny said:


> Can we possibly pass on this thread to Shane Ross? If, (and I am not doubting the OP considering some of the stories I have heard about FAS course) it really is a joke.
> 
> On a related subject, my girlfriend lost her job a year ago and was told by FAS to dumb down her cv to help her find employment. When she said she worked damn hard for that cv and wouldn't dumb it down, she was told she deserved to be unemployed. She was then offered a ECDL course.




I had a similar experience a while back.  I am qualified to teach ECDL & a Microsoft Master Instructor. FAS insisted that I should do an ECDL course because I don't actually have the certificate.  They wouldn't offer me any other course because I refused to accept what they thought was most suitable for my skills.


----------



## Gordanus (7 Nov 2009)

TarfHead said:


> There was a story/urban myth doing the rounds years ago about a FAS, or ANCO, course where they practiced telephone answering skills. They hadn't telephones to practise with, so they used bananas.
> 
> Or so the story goes.
> 
> Maybe things haven't change that much since then ?



A friend of mine had that experience in Britain on a Jobseekers course in the late 80s


----------



## dave28 (7 Nov 2009)

FAS spent in the region of €4.98 million on a training centre in Mountlucas Cffaly in 2007 / 2008. I wonder is it being used and if so, how do unemployed people get to it without using their own transport ?  What a waste !!


----------



## Lak (15 Nov 2009)

In defence a friend of mine is doing a FAS course and complained how simple it was at the beginning, unchallenging and thought she would not get anything out of it.
A year on she is on to extremely complex formulas for designing a wages spreadsheet through Excel for a company employing twenty people.
Having seen the formulas she needs to learn it is like a mad scientists chalk board scribblings, everyone starts on a level footing, some go as far as their intellect will allow and others as far as they wish to progress dependant on their abillities.
You can not tackle a masters degree without the fundamentals under your belt first of all no matter how mundane it may be, so I think this thread paints a somewhat scewed picture.
The tutors apparently are excellent she says.


----------



## z107 (15 Nov 2009)

> A year on she is on to extremely complex formulas for designing a wages spreadsheet through Excel for a company employing twenty people.
> Having seen the formulas she needs to learn it is like a mad scientists chalk board scribblings, everyone starts on a level footing, some go as far as their intellect will allow and others as far as they wish to progress dependant on their abillities.


What's the point? - using excel to calculate PRSI etc?
Okay, I'm biased here, but I would think it crazy to be using Excel to run the wages for 20 people.

To me, that sounds worse than the banana story. Insane.


----------



## Lak (15 Nov 2009)

The point being its a ficticious company and the exercise is to teach operating excel in its entirety, just so happens I would surmise that wage calculations are a good way of doing this. It is only part of the course which comprises many facets other than Excel.
I know a little about spreadsheets and from what I was shown of the progression from last year it seemed a worthwhile undertaking.....I guess some folk are never happy unless they are gripeing !


----------



## Staples (16 Nov 2009)

legs-akimbo said:


> A year on she is on to extremely complex formulas for designing a wages spreadsheet through Excel for a company employing twenty people.


 
A year on???  What course is she doing that takes a year to do Excel?

Is there any demand for the Excel skills such that a year long course is worth the investment?


----------



## Lak (16 Nov 2009)

perhaps you should consider a FAS course yourself in basic English Staples, if you understood by simple post you would comprehend the following quote.

"It is only part of the course which comprises many facets other than Excel".

As I said some people are never happy unless they are gripeing.
A litany of complaint against FAS courses and a little glimmer of good and there is a clamour to shoot it down. Typical Irish begrudgery


----------



## Slash (16 Nov 2009)

Just to add a bit of balance to this discussion: My brother in law started a FAS/FETAC course a couple of weeks ago in sales and marketing. He thinks it's great, and he's learning a lot.


----------



## Staples (16 Nov 2009)

legs-akimbo said:


> perhaps you should consider a FAS course yourself in basic English Staples, if you understood by simple post you would comprehend the following quote.
> 
> "It is only part of the course which comprises many facets other than Excel".
> 
> ...


 
I understand the multi-faceted content of the course and my point was not directed at the individual undertaking the course. 

My point is that a period of one year or more is a long (and therefore expensive) period to expect the state to provide training to any individual. This long-term arrangement is more akin to a regular education course which students choose to pursue as a long-term investment without getting any payment/allowance. 


I have no difficulty with the provision of short-term courses that provide skills to improve the employment prospects of individuals benefit but course of one year or more are more difficult to justify, particularly when the individual is also in receipt of an allowance for this period.  There may well be circumstances in which the state's provision of training for periods of this length (accompanied by payment of allowances) is justified but I can't think of any. My personal opinion, is that the objectives and outcome of training over such long-term training should be a bit more ambitious than proficiency in Excel or other skills at a similar level.  I believe is that if you're being paid by the State to train for a year or more, the skills you receive should be extrememly specialist and they should be in demand.  

The state (and therfore taxpayers) pay heavily for FAS training. It's reasonable to question the value of any such training without being accused of begrudgery.


----------



## Sunny (16 Nov 2009)

legs-akimbo said:


> A litany of complaint against FAS courses and a little glimmer of good and there is a clamour to shoot it down. Typical Irish begrudgery


 
Eh? How the hell is it begrudgery to criticise a company with a budget of €1 billion of taxpayers money just because they offer a 'glimmer of good' amoung a litany of complaints?


----------



## VOR (16 Nov 2009)

Sunny said:


> Eh? How the hell is it begrudgery to criticise a company with a budget of €1 billion of taxpayers money just because they offer a 'glimmer of good' amoung a litany of complaints?


 
+1. We have a right to examine how our tax euros are spent.
A year long education where the participants are paid should be examined in detail.


----------



## Lak (16 Nov 2009)

VOR said:


> +1. We have a right to examine how our tax euros are spent.
> A year long education where the participants are paid should be examined in detail.


 

even when its only €15 a week more than you would get on the dole.??
I accept FAs is light years from perfect but I will reiterate the fact that there are many people especially on this forum that take a morbid delight in begrudgery...they would rather FAS (being one example of many) perform pathetically so they can mither and moan to their hearts content about their wasted tax euros....I am convinced there are people who would rather see failure than sucess in all forms so they can wallow in bitter ignomany.
I for one hope she passes her exams gets a great job out of it and prospers enormously thanks to the helping hand of FAS and the tutors, even if that doesnt sit well with the begrudgers.


----------



## cosy (16 Nov 2009)

No FAS course that runs an excell module takes one year to complete.  All FAS courses are FETAC approved and this dictates how long each module is.  This year FAS shortened most of its courses to between 6-10 weeks offering FETAC minor awards, by offering shorter more focused courses FAS can offer more training opportunities to unemployed people through day/evening/blended learning .  In fact FAS will offer 80,000 training places this year an increase of 3-4 times the average number of places, this will be achieved within the same budget and less staff.  You wont read this in any paper


----------

