# Tenants Unable to Pay Rent



## belview (11 Feb 2009)

Given the severe economic downturn , the loss of employment and the groundswell of opinion that mortgage lenders should be taking a benign view in relation to foreclosures.
What is the view of  people out there in relation to  tenants finding themselves in a position where they are unable to pay their monthly rent due to unemployment.
What rights and expectations would be on landlords in this new climate and what view would the PRTB take.


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

That is an excellant question.im a tenent npt a landlord but i would hope that the landlord would show compasion.


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## S.L.F (11 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> That is an excellant question.im a tenent npt a landlord but i would hope that the landlord would show compasion.


 
A landlord would show as much compassion as the mortgage provider when turfing him out on the street


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## mercman (11 Feb 2009)

*What rights and expectations would be on landlords in this new climate and what view would the PRTB take.*

There would and should be no expectations from Landlords. They are not running a free service, so in most cases I would say it's time for tenants to move on home or back or wherever they like.


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

Thats a shame that you all think like that.I know that if i was a landlord and had a couple with kids in my property that i would cut some slack for a while.things arent getting better in this country.its getting worse.Dog eat dog.


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## Mommah (11 Feb 2009)

Errr cleverclogs....bizarre attitude to say the least.
I am a landlord and neither my OH or I are working at the moment.
OH is the construction business......so you are suggesting that I let my theorectically unemployed tenants (all single 20 somethings) chillax in my house while me and my kids have to starve or worse to pull together the mortgage payments????????????

We actually moved out of our PPR to rent it out and downsized to a smaller cheaper rental property.

People need to get real about landlords, developers, public servants, bankers.....etc etc etc. People are falling for and getting off on all these caricatures.....these are all real...normal .....people.


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

i SAID COUPLE WITH KIDS.NOT SINGLES IN THERE 20'S.I dont think i have a "bizarre attitude "im a mom of 2 and if i found myself in a position that i couldnt pay rent after losing my job.i would aproach my landlord and try to come to an arrangement.
I read the papers,i see the way the country is going,i see unemployment going up by the day.Im not blind.Am i the only person that would show compasion ???


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## Yeager (11 Feb 2009)

Business is business you must pay for a service in this case living in someone elses house. 

If there is no money coming in how is the landlord going to cover his/her overheads i.e. mortage? As a landlord myself I would be flexible for a month or so in exceptional cases but when the mortgage needs paying I need tennats that can pay up.

Often in the past when living away and money was extra tight I survived on bread for the last week of each month. My landlord then wasn't very considerate believe me!

Hate to frank about it but renting out ones property isn't a charity service.


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## murphaph (11 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> i SAID COUPLE WITH KIDS.NOT SINGLES IN THERE 20'S.I dont think i have a "bizarre attitude "im a mom of 2 and if i found myself in a position that i couldnt pay rent after losing my job.i would aproach my landlord and try to come to an arrangement.
> I read the papers,i see the way the country is going,i see unemployment going up by the day.Im not blind.Am i the only person that would show compasion ???


If the landlord owns his property outright he MAY be in a position to go without rent payments for a while as you apply for RS. If the landlord is paying a hefty mortgage he won't have that luxury and will need to get someone in who can pay the rent or the bank will be seeking repossession. Should a landlord lose his asset because his tenant has lost her job? Hardly fair. It is society's job to take care of the less fortunate, not individual landlords'.


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

Yeager said:


> Business is business you must pay for a service in this case living in someone elses house.
> 
> If there is no money coming in how is the landlord going to cover his/her overheads i.e. mortage? As a landlord myself I would be flexible for a month or so in exceptional cases but when the mortgage needs paying I need tennats that can pay up.
> 
> ...


 
Yes i agree with you .I wasnt suggesting giving tenents a free ride.Only a little compasion if said tenent couldnt pay full amount for a month or so.I was in a simular position back in the mid 90'S while living in greece.Would live on bread and jam for the last few days of the month to meet rent payments.


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## MrKeane (11 Feb 2009)

belview said:


> Given the severe economic downturn , the loss of employment and the groundswell of opinion that mortgage lenders should be taking a benign view in relation to foreclosures.
> What is the view of people out there in relation to tenants finding themselves in a position where they are unable to pay their monthly rent due to unemployment.
> What rights and expectations would be on landlords in this new climate and what view would the PRTB take.


 
It would depend on the circumstnaces I guess, if somebody had been a good tenant for many years it might make sense to leave them a bit of slack and hope they get a job. Or you could reduce the rent for a period. If people get turfed out there might not be anybody else interested in renting the place given the current overslupply. Rent must be on the verge of collapse given that just about everything else is on the verge of collapse as well at the moment, the next client might be paying a whole lot less.


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## z103 (11 Feb 2009)

> Am i the only person that would show compasion ???


Probably.

Renting a house is a business, it's that simple. If you start letting people stay for free, then you are a charity.
Why stop at paying your tenants' rent? - why not also pay for their food, or pay off your neighbours' mortgage while you're at it?
Consider as well that tenants can (and probably will) take advantage of such a situation.

(post crossed with above)


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## Mommah (11 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> .im a tenent npt a landlord but i would hope that the landlord would show compasion.


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

murphaph said:


> If the landlord owns his property outright he MAY be in a position to go without rent payments for a while as you apply for RS. If the landlord is paying a hefty mortgage he won't have that luxury and will need to get someone in who can pay the rent or the bank will be seeking repossession. Should a landlord lose his asset because his tenant has lost her job? Hardly fair. It is society's job to take care of the less fortunate, not individual landlords'.


 
Its society that got us all into this mess.Ever see the movie pay it foreward with Helen hunt.?


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## cleverclogs7 (11 Feb 2009)

Oh i give up.I was only saying that i would give some leeway thats all,Not bend over backwards and be a hard ass.


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## Mommah (11 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> Its *society* that got us all into this mess.Ever see the movie pay it foreward with Helen hunt.?


 
We have ALL got to take collective responsibility for this mess.
It is a total cop-out to blame bankers, developers, the government blah blah blah.

WE are society...all of us....we all have power...and influence and can vote.  And it is through our votes that we abdicated responsiblity.

We kept voting in the government who sat passively on the run away train that was/is our economy. we took the 100% mortgages, we maxed out the credit cards.  We all drank the kool-aid.

Have we got the courage now to vote for a government strong enough to make painful decisions which will benefit our children but maybe not us??
That's paying forward in my view.


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## S.L.F (11 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> Its society that got us all into this mess.Ever see the movie pay it foreward with Helen hunt.?


 
If they can afford to rent a movie they can pay their rent!!!



cleverclogs7 said:


> Oh i give up.I was only saying that i would give some leeway thats all,Not bend over backwards and be a hard ass.


 
Tenants have leeway pay up or get out...


Having said that when my last tenant gave me his notice I offered him a rent reduction on the spot...Ssshhhh don't tell anyone!!!


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## Bessa (11 Feb 2009)

Tenants seem to be of the opinion that landlords are loaded. We have a lot of overheads eg. Mortages, PRTB, Insurance, 1% Levy, BER,Management fees, and talk of a property tax of 1,000 euro per unit, and god knows what else is coming down the line. So how can a landlord leave a tenant in a property without paying their rent.


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## Guest110 (11 Feb 2009)

I know a landlord who let the tennant arrears go on for 4 months.Every month it was either a bounced cheque or false promises of money being in the account by the end of the week. When he approached them and told them that they have to pay up or move out by the end of the month - they told him they would move out by the end of the month and this was only at the beginning of the month- which would give them 3 weeks to find another place.

He then thought about the conversation and went up and had a chat with them and told them that if they did not pay up in 2 days time, that he was going to go into the house , pack there stuff and leave it in the front garden. He got the sob story that the woman was pregnant and out of work on maternity and that the man has lost his job. 


When he went back up 2 days later , he was told the man was at work .... clearly making an idiot out of him. They now have to pay him 600 euro every week until the debt of 4k is cleared...

They clearly wanted to leave after the month and get somewhere else if they thought they could get away with 4 months rent. 

There still in the house , so they must be able to afford the 600 a week to clear the debt.

Landlords beware of fake stories.


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## thedaras (11 Feb 2009)

Think about this now; If you turf your tennants out, how long will it take to find another tennant?
If you have a good tennant ,why not cut some slack?
The alternative is to find another one,who may not pay you what you are presently getting ,you may find tennants are looking for a reduction in rental prices anyway.
You may find that the new ones are not as good and it may take some time to find another one in the current climate.
You may also find that its not that easy anymore to let,and what would you would end up doing is cutting your nose off to save your face.
If it were me and I had a choice of keeping a good tennant at a reduced cost or gambling on ,having no tennant/bad tennant/left waiting to get a tennant ,I know which I would choose to do.Its your call though.


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## Bessa (11 Feb 2009)

Landlords are not a charity, we cannot explain to the bank that the tenant needs some slack, and we will pay our mortages when the tenant coughs up. This recession is fast becoming a racket with some people, ( Who seem to think that everyone owes them a living ). A lot of people only want to see what suits them.


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## cleverclogs7 (12 Feb 2009)

thedaras said:


> Think about this now; If you turf your tennants out, how long will it take to find another tennant?
> If you have a good tennant ,why not cut some slack?
> The alternative is to find another one,who may not pay you what you are presently getting ,you may find tennants are looking for a reduction in rental prices anyway.
> You may find that the new ones are not as good and it may take some time to find another one in the current climate.
> ...


 

Exactly.well said.As for the following quote If they can afford to rent a movie they can pay their rent!!! since when does rent cost 4e.


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## Guest128 (12 Feb 2009)

Bessa said:


> Landlords are not a charity, we cannot explain to the bank that the tenant needs some slack, and we will pay our mortages when the tenant coughs up. This recession is fast becoming a racket with some people, ( Who seem to think that everyone owes them a living ). A lot of people only want to see what suits them.



If you were got into trouble with your mortgage I assume you wouldn't be availing of the new government scheme where you can defer payments then either?


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## Mommah (12 Feb 2009)

How can someone simultaneously be a good tenant and not pay their rent.
How can this "good tenant" who does not any rent be better than a new tenant at a lower rent?
Remember you do not have much leeway before the bank repossesses your house...about 3 -6 months before things start getting nasty.
My rental prices are in the midrange for the area for excellent properties.
The last time I was asked for a reduction I advised the tenant to check daft for the market prices in the area...never heard another peep.


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## DeeFox (12 Feb 2009)

Mommah said:


> Have we got the courage now to vote for a government strong enough to make painful decisions which will benefit our children but maybe not us??


 
Off topic, but what government would that be?

On topic, as someone who takes care of a number of rental properties for someone else, I would agree to a rent reduction from a tenant who is having problems but would meet with a tenant if two weeks passed without rent being paid.  At this time I would insist that the rent be paid or they start looking for somewhere else.


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## Mommah (12 Feb 2009)

DeeFox said:


> Off topic, but what government would that be?


 
Good question...I don't have an answer.
But my impression is that the politicians don't feel the electorate is mature enough to think long-term.
Hence FF's back-tracking and diddering and FGs constant refrain of "We wouldn't do that"....Well what the heck will you do then???

The general cop-out of blaming the caricatures is not getting anyone anywhere. Most similar countries (US,UK) are in the same boat. 
We need to stop whinging and move forward.
We are a good people and a strong country and we can pull out of this.
But we need b al ls


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## z104 (12 Feb 2009)

If the person renting does not pay rent then they will either be asked to move on by the landlord or moved on by the bank when they repossess the house from the landlord for not paying the mortgage. 

If the landlord has a morgtgage on the property he will not have any leeway even if they would like to give the tennant a break.


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## twofor1 (12 Feb 2009)

I have an investment apartment with the same bank as my family home. 

  The security for the investment mortgage is the property itself and,

  “Any other security now or in the future held by us for your liabilities in general will be security for your liabilities in respect of the loan”

  My understanding of this is if I don’t pay the investment mortgage, the bank *could* *choose* to repossess my family home even if payment was up to date, as it would be a lot more saleable in today’s market than an apartment.

  I have been asked to reduce the rent and have done so in the interest of both parties. I need the rent to pay the mortgage, my family home is security for it, there’s not much leeway there. It has to be treated as a business.


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## Deise Doll (12 Feb 2009)

Tenants can get rent allowance unlike people like mommah.


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## elgransenor (12 Feb 2009)

twofor1 said:


> I have an investment apartment with the same bank as my family home.
> 
> The security for the investment mortgage is the property itself and,
> 
> ...



Yes, you are right as it has become customary in the last few years to dish out what is called an 'All Sums due' mortgage.

I have an article on mortgages here [broken link removed] which explains the different types.

But essentially that type of mortgage covers all of your indebtedness to the bank including car loans,credit cards etc.


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## Bessa (12 Feb 2009)

Flanders i am quite sure that the government scheme to defer mortgage payments will not extend to rental properties.


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## S.L.F (12 Feb 2009)

S.L.F said:


> If they can afford to rent a movie they can pay their rent!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


cleverclogs7 said:


> Exactly.well said.As for the following quote If they can afford to rent a movie they can pay their rent!!! since when does rent cost 4e.


 
Sorry Cleverclogs, perhaps I should have put in a  into it so you could understand it.

I'll make an effort to make things simple for you in future.


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## Guest128 (13 Feb 2009)

Bessa said:


> Flanders i am quite sure that the government scheme to defer mortgage payments will not extend to rental properties.



I never implied it would. The rental property is the tenant's home, in a similar fashion to your first residence being your home. I was wondering that if you were unwilling to give a tenant any leeway in payments, would you then happily accept some leeway on your own _home _mortgage with the government scheme?


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## Mommah (13 Feb 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> I never implied it would. The rental property is the tenant's home, in a similar fashion to your first residence being your home. I was wondering that if you were unwilling to give a tenant any leeway in payments, would you then happily accept some leeway on your own _home _mortgage with the government scheme?


 
You know Flanders...I don't know where you are coming from.
But I just want to say we are in difficult times...and in difficult times one needs to prioritise who you can help. You cannot help everyone.

My priority is to help my family.and friends many of whom are in difficulties....any theorectical non-paying tenants are well down the line. Honestly.

I have 8 tenants all single and all have the option of going home to their parents if the poo hits the fan. Their family needs to step up to the plate before me.


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## Guest128 (13 Feb 2009)

Mommah said:


> You know Flanders...I don't know where you are coming from.



I don't this its that unclear, i was just musing that its interesting how a landlord would be happy to take help from the government on their home mortgage but not be willing to give any if their tenant was struggling for a month, thats about it.


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## Mommah (13 Feb 2009)

err I have yet to have the government knock on my door making offers of assistance given that my OH is now unemployed....no...that only happens out of their own self interest....not their interest in saving my hide....that I must do myself....and have taken very dramatic steps to do so...successfully so far.

I take it from your posts Flanders that you are a tenant rather than a landlord.

If I could wave a magic wand and convert the equity in my property into a deposit account I would do so in the morning and double my return..and all 8 tenants would be out on their ears...most landlords are losing their shirts on rentals at the moment.

My first rental was driven by a mistaken assumption that the house would sell for more once the massive site on the road was finished....BIG MISTAKE.

My second rental was driven by the fact that OH lost his job and we needed to vamoose somewhere MUCH cheaper.....Working well so far.

Tenants need to get real about landlords being fatcat property developers. the landlords have more to loose than the tenants usually.

I am by the way a tenant myself at the moment and was one for 12 years before that...right through the dark 80s and 90s and never was late with my rent. It's ALOT easier being a tenant.


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## Bessa (13 Feb 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> I never implied it would. The rental property is the tenant's home, in a similar fashion to your first residence being your home. I was wondering that if you were unwilling to give a tenant any leeway in payments, would you then happily accept some leeway on your own _home _mortgage with the government scheme?



I would not be looking for leeway from the government, as i do not have a mortgage on my own home.


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## redspot (13 Feb 2009)

I agree with everything Mommah has to say.

               Just wish more people could hear her.


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