# Service Charge in Restaurants



## Don_08 (29 Sep 2008)

What are your opinions on these?

In a restaurant on Sat night - pretty overpriced for what you got as it was.  And had an automatic 12.5% service charge attached on top of the bill.  Which don;t normally mind to be honest.

However, the service was appalling, rude waiter, waiting for ages, trying to push extras on us, never even got asked about tea and cofees etc etc.

So I asked the manager for the bill and said to remove the service charge and we would decide what to pay ourselves - as prob would have tipped something but the service did not warrant nearly €40 of a tip.

She tried to tell me that only 50% of the service charge went to the staff anyway - so effectively 50% was going straight into the restaurants coffers.  I said that did not matter as it was classed as a service charge. We did get our bill with 0% service charge, though it was flung onto our table by our waiter and removed all chance of him getting a tip.

I'm just wondering though about this 50% of service charge only going to staff, so you are paying for something you think is a tip, but its not really.  Can restaurants get away with this?


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## niceoneted (29 Sep 2008)

I would think that it is taken that the restaurant are paying the staff to provide a service so they could be quite entitled to take some of that charge to go towards wages or training etc. 
I'm sure technically where it is supposed to go though. I myself always assumed it went to staff. But personally if I'm paying with laser or credit card I always leave a cash tip as I 'm never sure if the staff get the tip or they may have to wait weeks to get. 


I'm glad you had success with having the service charge deducted from the bill as I too was somewhere in town last Sat week that had an automatic service charge. It was quite a pricey restaurant and the service was just ok. It didn't warrant the full amt. I must remember in future to ask them to take it off so I can tip myself.


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## ClubMan (29 Sep 2008)

Don_08 said:


> And had an automatic 12.5% service charge attached on top of the bill.


Was it on stated on the menu/price list in advance?


> *Service charges and tips
> 
> *If you’re in a large group, look out for service charges. Many restaurants will apply these for groups such as a party of 10 people or more. Service charges can vary from 5% to 15%. The service charge must be displayed on the price list.
> 
> ...


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## rmelly (29 Sep 2008)

niceoneted said:


> I would think that it is taken that the restaurant are paying the staff to provide a service so they could be quite entitled to take some of that charge to go towards wages or training etc.


 
That's stretching it a bit - how/why are staff costs any different to all the other overheads already included in the menu prices?


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## Celtwytch (29 Sep 2008)

I don't agree with those standard service charges.  Surely the cost of having one's food served to the table is already factored in to the cost of the food?  I'm quite happy to leave a tip when the service warrants it, but I truly hate having that tip included as part of the bill.  Especially when the staff then point to the space to enter an additional "gratuity", as happened to me in one rather pricey restaurant.  When I replied that I was already paying a 12.5% service charge, I was told that the waiting staff don't get that.  So it would seem to be standard practice that the only extras the waiting staff get are the tips or gratuities that the customer pays on top of the service charge.


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## Don_08 (29 Sep 2008)

The 12.5% was mentioned on the menu ( for all people not large groups) - but I asked for it to be removed even before we got the bill as the service was so bad.

We were being charged €30 for a curry and rice as it was!!

Just won't be back there.


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## Nutso (29 Sep 2008)

Celtwytch said:


> I don't agree with those standard service charges. Surely the cost of having one's food served to the table is already factored in to the cost of the food? I'm quite happy to leave a tip when the service warrants it, but I truly hate having that tip included as part of the bill. Especially when the staff then point to the space to enter an additional "gratuity", as happened to me in one rather pricey restaurant. When I replied that I was already paying a 12.5% service charge, I was told that the waiting staff don't get that. So it would seem to be standard practice that the only extras the waiting staff get are the tips or gratuities that the customer pays on top of the service charge.


 
Agreed, I hate when service is added on top of a bill.  I'm quite happy to leave a large tip when I'm happy with service but loathe paying it on a bill and in addtion to that I want to tip the person who served me well and not the restaurant.


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## muffin1973 (29 Sep 2008)

I was in a small tapas style restaurant a couple of weeks ago, there were 3 of us in for an early dinner.  When we got the bill, they had added 10% service charge.  I was gobsmacked although my friends didn't seem to think it was a big deal.  I would have tipped anyway, but I thought to charge the extra as standard when we were only a table of 3 was a bit cheeky.  We didn't leave anything on top of the service charge as I also thought it went to the waiting staff - although either way, I'm not going to tip after having to pay a service charge of 10-12.5%.  Also, it was not mentioned on the menu.  Went back to the same place last week (yes, the service charge didn't stop me going back ) and I was with one friend and there was no service charge, so really can't work that one out.

I was in another restaurant on Friday night and we were also charged 12.5% service charge (for 4 of us) - more expensive restaurant so I wasn't as surprised.  Only noticed as we were leaving that the two restaurants are linked (was mentioned on the menu) - one is a tapas style separate eaterie but obviously owned by the same people.

M


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## mercman (29 Sep 2008)

I have tried to have the service charge removed in a restaurant because I wished to pay a tip wth cash, due to the VAT ruling. Restaurant refused to do it so very simply will not be going back. The price of the food is one matter. The service charge should be a completely separate issue.


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## DeclanP (29 Sep 2008)

Anywhere that automatically adds on the service charge, I resist with arrogance. More often than not if a service charge is not included in the bill we leave a tip that would exceed the standard. It is a terrible charge and often proves to ruin a good night out. Restaurants should have the cop on at this stage to allow customers to tip as they want to. If the service is good, we will tip well but if the service is poor then, like the OP, we give them the two fingers.


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## Lollix (1 Oct 2008)

I have noticed of late that the places that automatically add service also seem to be soliciting a tip as well. I was handed a credit card machine in a well known place last week, and the message "add gratuity" came up wehn I entered my pin. I hate the automatic adding of 10 or 12.5% service charge, I resent it and try to avoid these places where possible.
By the way, it's not just in Ireland that this happens. I was in a fairly upmarket restaurant in the USA a month or so ago. The bill came to 400 dollars, and the waiter informed me that he had assumed a 10% tip and had added 40 dollars! This wasn't a % service charge, just an initiative by the waiter. Rather than make a scene with the people I was with, I paid it, but I'm still annoyed about it. If it's happening over there, it's just a matter of time...watch out for similar stunts here in the future!


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## Caveat (1 Oct 2008)

Register disapproval with your feet. 

Plenty of good restaurants don't engage in this. I refuse to eat in a restaurant that has an automatic service charge.


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## markpb (1 Oct 2008)

Lollix said:


> By the way, it's not just in Ireland that this happens. I was in a fairly upmarket restaurant in the USA a month or so ago. The bill came to 400 dollars, and the waiter informed me that he had assumed a 10% tip and had added 40 dollars! This wasn't a % service charge, just an initiative by the waiter. Rather than make a scene with the people I was with, I paid it, but I'm still annoyed about it. If it's happening over there, it's just a matter of time...watch out for similar stunts here in the future!



Most restaurants in America automatically add in a suggested 15% tip before giving you your bill.


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## Ancutza (1 Oct 2008)

markpb said:


> Most restaurants in America automatically add in a suggested 15% tip before giving you your bill.


 
Watch out for Wilmington, NC and Boston then as they seem to think that 20% is the going rate! I nearly fell off me chair!

I too resent 12.5% service charges.  You've chosen to eat in their restaurant and then are made to feel that you should pay them over-and-above the bill for doing you a favour and bringing the food to the table?

I avoid these places in favour of where I can elect to tip what I feel appropriate to the level of service offered.


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## ClubMan (1 Oct 2008)

Ancutza said:


> Watch out for Wilmington, NC and Boston then as they seem to think that 20% is the going rate! I nearly fell off me chair!


Tipping up to 25% of the bill for excellent service in the _US _is not unusual.  Just look at any of the _US _ "tipping etiquette" guides online.


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## lukegriffen (2 Oct 2008)

Lollix said:


> I have noticed of late that the places that automatically add service also seem to be soliciting a tip as well. I was handed a credit card machine in a well known place last week, and the message "add gratuity" came up when I entered my pin.



I thought this was the default setting with the credit card handheld machines. Can the restaurants change the configuration, so that it never asks you for a tip ?


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## DeclanP (2 Oct 2008)

lukegriffen said:


> I thought this was the default setting with the credit card handheld machines. Can the restaurants change the configuration, so that it never asks you for a tip ?



Probably can but they won't. It is shocking the way they cajole customers to leave a tip that it leaves the voluntary element out of the equation. Had a situation in Galway when I told the girl at the desk that I had left a tip at the table and she got disgruntled that I did not leave one on the hand held machine when paying by credit card. And that was after I had complained about one aspect of the meal!


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## dmv (2 Oct 2008)

in my experience the majority of restersaunts override this setting and present the machine without the "add gratuity" screen showing.

If you dont want to add gratuity on your CC all you have to do is enter a zero and leave the tip in cash (or no tip if youprefer)


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## DeclanP (2 Oct 2008)

dmv said:


> in my experience the majority of restersaunts override this setting and present the machine without the "add gratuity" screen showing.
> 
> If you dont want to add gratuity on your CC all you have to do is enter a zero and leave the tip in cash (or no tip if youprefer)



Not my experience lately. The tip is forced by many restaurants if you are vulnerable enough to play ball. Even out from work at lunch time, some restaurants try to enforce a 10% levy if we come as a group in excess of six! How mad is that. We have refused to pay on all occasions.


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## dmv (2 Oct 2008)

DeclanP said:


> We have refused to pay on all occasions.



How did that work out for you just out of curiosity


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## DeclanP (2 Oct 2008)

dmv said:


> How did that work out for you just out of curiosity



There is strength in numbers. When a restaurant has seven or eight barking on about the extra charge being applied simply because we are a group, they have no problem backing down. Often these places will not allow people to pay as an individual but we break down the bill and pay minus the 10% additional charge. We should be getting 10% off for dining in a group!


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## dmv (2 Oct 2008)

DeclanP said:


> we break down the bill and pay minus the 10% additional charge. We should be getting 10% off for dining in a group!


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## PMU (2 Oct 2008)

I usually tip 10%, but calculate the 10% on the price of the meal less the price of the wine.  There's a big mark-up on wine, so  I don't see why I should pay a tip / service charge on top of that.  Am I just being mean?


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## Stifster (3 Oct 2008)

PMU said:


> I usually tip 10%, but calculate the 10% on the price of the meal less the price of the wine.  There's a big mark-up on wine, so  I don't see why I should pay a tip / service charge on top of that.  Am I just being mean?



I know where you are coming from although having done my waitering stint years ago you were always delighted if the drinks were adding up.

In theory the restaurant shouldn't be concerned if you ask to decide your own tip but of course they are taking some of it from the waiting staff.

A group of of six is harder to deal with so does deserve a bigger tip than a smaller party (from experience)


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## Ron Burgundy (3 Oct 2008)

Stifster said:


> I know where you are coming from although having done my waitering stint years ago you were always delighted if the drinks were adding up.
> 
> In theory the restaurant shouldn't be concerned if you ask to decide your own tip but of course they are taking some of it from the waiting staff.
> 
> A group of of six is harder to deal with so does deserve a bigger tip than a smaller party (from experience)



whats the difference between 6 at one table and 3 couples ?? same amount of people.


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## PMU (3 Oct 2008)

Stifster said:


> I know where you are coming from although having done my waitering stint years ago you were always delighted if the drinks were adding up.


  I can see where you're coming from as well, but it's not 'years ago' now and we do have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.


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## S.L.F (3 Oct 2008)

I really hate service charges.

We were in a restaurant for a Xmas do and we were being charged 10% for the waitress to get us drinks €30 a round and they were putting €3 just for the girl to walk 5 feet.

So I said 'to hell with this' and decided to go the the bar myself to get the drinks myself and they still tried to get me for the service charge.

Needless to say it didn't go down very well


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## Sylvester3 (6 Oct 2008)

Ron Burgundy said:


> whats the difference between 6 at one table and 3 couples ?? same amount of people.




I haven't had experience in the restaurant trade but surely 6 people needing to be served their starters/mains/deserts at roughly the same time would constitute more management and effort (in the kitchen and on serving) than 3 separate couples.


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## Lollix (6 Oct 2008)

Sylvester3 said:


> I haven't had experience in the restaurant trade but surely 6 people needing to be served their starters/mains/deserts at roughly the same time would constitute more management and effort (in the kitchen and on serving) than 3 separate couples.


No. Less effort if anything. Certainly not worthy of a premium.


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## Celtwytch (6 Oct 2008)

Lollix said:


> No. Less effort if anything. Certainly not worthy of a premium.


 
I would agree with Sylvester on this - if you have 6 people with up to 6 different meal choices, it's far more difficult to get all of those out at the same time than a table where there are just 2 different choices.  

That being said, I don't agree with automatic service charges, no matter how many are seated at the table.


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## Ron Burgundy (6 Oct 2008)

Celtwytch said:


> I would agree with Sylvester on this - if you have 6 people with up to 6 different meal choices, it's far more difficult to get all of those out at the same time than a table where t*here are just 2 different choices*.
> 
> That being said, I don't agree with automatic service charges, no matter how many are seated at the table.



But 3 couples are 6 people who might all want different menu choices and are at different tables so more walking ???


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## rmelly (6 Oct 2008)

Ron Burgundy said:


> But 3 couples are 6 people who might all want different menu choices and are at different tables so more walking ???


 
Plus the restaurant should be aiming to minimise all waiting times anyway, and I don't believe that they wouldn't just leave a few dishes under a heating light (whatever they call them) in these circumstances while waiting for the others to be completed.


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## Guest128 (6 Oct 2008)

Sylvester3 said:


> I haven't had experience in the restaurant trade but surely 6 people needing to be served their starters/mains/deserts at roughly the same time would constitute more management and effort (in the kitchen and on serving) than 3 separate couples.




Surely they train their staff for this? Why should the consumer pay for staff management? The prices listed are the prices I want to pay and if I want to tip then thats my perogative, that is the way dining should work in my opinion. We are getting far too American whereby the employer can get away with passing everything onto the customer (ala the tipping mentality where the customer is basically paying the employees wages instead of the employer)


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## Celtwytch (6 Oct 2008)

Ron Burgundy said:


> But 3 couples are 6 people who might all want different menu choices and are at different tables so more walking ???


 
Yes. more walking (but careful talking about that or they'll be charging for wear and tear on the restaurant floor next!)  My point is that co-ordinating 6 meals and getting them all to 1 table at the same time takes a little more work in the kitchen than organising meals for 3 seperate tables, where there is a need to get just 2 meals to arrive at the same time for each table.


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## Ron Burgundy (6 Oct 2008)

Celtwytch said:


> Yes. more walking (but careful talking about that or they'll be charging for wear and tear on the restaurant floor next!)  My point is that co-ordinating 6 meals and getting them all to 1 table at the same time takes a little more work in the kitchen than organising meals for 3 seperate tables, where there is a need to get just 2 meals to arrive at the same time for each table.



Good, my answer to that is do i care ?? Just give me the food and service i expect at a reasonable price without adding on charges here there and everywhere. 

Its a business and if customers don't see it as value for money they show it with their feet.


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