# why are so many paying the Household charge early?



## NOAH (7 Jan 2012)

I am gobsmacked, in fact I can't understand it, I am totally numb, I find it unbelievable, if it is true,  that people are falling over themselves to pay this government, no better than the last by a long shot,

 €100.00 in advance by 3 months!!  We don't pay our motor tax in advance, or other bills!

So why this?  

When the  proper charge is introduced next year and its between €800 - €4,000 will the same thing happen??

All I can say is...  unbelievable

noah


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## callybags (7 Jan 2012)

I will pay it early for a couple of reasons:

I am going to have to pay it by the end of March, so by paying it now I can forget about it and not have to worry about missing the deadline.

I fully agree that we need to raise more money than we are and that a property tax of some form is a good idea. The more people that are seen to be paying willingly the less attention will be given to the "I'm not paying" brigade.


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## twofor1 (7 Jan 2012)

I got double pay for working some bank holidays over Christmas, I have it now, I might not have it in March and then incur penalties.

That’s that bill out of the way till next year.


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## Gervan (7 Jan 2012)

I am also perplexed, by the efforts to which people are prepared to go, in order to pay. Trying several times to read the capcha, or having several goes because the site crashes, making long phone calls etc. I don't understand the _desperation_ to pay. 
Why aren't people waiting until the site is sorted out and all objections solved?


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## twofor1 (7 Jan 2012)

I created an account and paid yesterday, no problems whatsoever, I’d say it took 4 minutes start to finish.

As I now have an account next year’s payment will probably take less than 1 minute.


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## Paddyman (7 Jan 2012)

_*Some*_ people re paying early because there is a political push on to show acceptance of the charge.

We hear that 800 have paid, 1200 have paid, 2000 have paid ..... like acceptance is on the up. Nothing is said about the estimated  1.7 million people who have not paid.

How many of the early payers are dependent on the coalition for a living in the form of patronage? How many are well-heeled and will have no worries even when the charge soars.


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## NOAH (7 Jan 2012)

thanks for reply.  well at least you wont forget next years and I can bet you wont pay 1000 as quickly!!

but a piece of advice, never ever pay up front for anything

we are shooting ourselves in the foot by rolling over and letting this shower run roughshod over us.  As an aside don't you find it amazing that our IR department only now decide to chase down pensions? 

happy new year


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## NOAH (7 Jan 2012)

i was typing when other posts came in and exactly my thoughts.  people falling over themselves to pay a government that failed on very single promise given.  lets see how many pay up as quick next year.  in fact i think its all lies

and rememeber the adage,  well they must have money, no problem paying up so lets go for the kill next time

noah

ps  i am still gobsmacked and will be so for a very long time,  this sets a bad precedent, they will do the same with water charges, mark my words


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## Protocol (7 Jan 2012)

I strongly, strongly support a property tax. I always have.

I do not agree with repaying the bank senior bonds.

I realise that taxes must rise for all people.


I saw the link to www.householdcharge.ie, said to myself I'll have a look, and within a few mins I paid it.

I did not set out that morning to pay it, just came across the link to the website while browsing AAM or some other website.


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## Protocol (7 Jan 2012)

I also started my SSIA early, unlike many people who left it until the last week.

*By the way, loads of people are NOT paying the HC early, sure less than 10,000 have probably paid this week.*


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## STEINER (7 Jan 2012)

I have registered for the household charge.  I will pay it closer to the 31st March deadline.  I don't pay any bills 12 weeks in advance.


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## Billo (7 Jan 2012)

I have paid mine without problems. 
I decided to get it out of the way while I had a few bob handy.
It will have to be paid anyway.

Rgds 
Billo


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## horusd (7 Jan 2012)

I got it out of the way too, but via DD starting in March. Just one thing I don't have to think about, it's done and dusted.


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## so-crates (7 Jan 2012)

I always endeavour to address bills when they arrive rather than when they have to be paid by, I also always try to address them at the start of the month where feasible.


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## Marion (7 Jan 2012)

I spotted the site on AAM (thanks to *PetrolHead*) and decided to investigate.

I didn't have any problem registering and having checked that there were no additional costs for paying by direct debit I decided there and then to set up my a/c. It took a few minutes.

I wasn't in any particular hurry to pay. 

Paying by DD doesn't seem too painful (this year) in that the payments are spread over the year. 

I have never had a bad experience paying by DD on my current a/c. Almost all my bills are paid by DD. I have cancelled DDs in the past without problem.


Marion


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## oldnick (7 Jan 2012)

So, Protocol you "strongly ,strongly support" property charges ? - which we know may soon run into several hundred euros.

Does your support waiver if one owns a property but actually owes the bank more than the property is worth ? -as is the case with tens of thousands of property owners.

Does it matter that many property owners may be old people on a pension or small income who live in a valuable house? I suppose the answer is for them to leave the house they've spent their lives in and get a small apartment? 

Should a Dublin property owner on the same salary as a Mayo dweller pay twice the property tax of the Mayoman on the basis that the Dublin property costs twice a much as the Mayo one? (and probably is still struggling to pay the higher price of the Dublin house).


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## Gekko (7 Jan 2012)

There should be a property tax and being in negative equity doesn't justify non payment of the tax.

€100 per annum is nothing.

When it rises to its true level, people on very low incomes should be partially exempted from the tax.


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## Creaky Bones (7 Jan 2012)

*Blood from a stone!*

_



Does it matter that many property owners may be old people on a pension or small income who live in a valuable house? I suppose the answer is for them to leave the house they've spent their lives in and get a small apartment?

Click to expand...

_ 
Totally agree *oldnick* I am living on the old age pension, have worked all my life to get a valuable property. Are people that naive to think that they will pay E100 this year and maybe E200 next year? Within 3 or 4 years they will be forced to pay thousands! If we don't pay they will add on penalties and interest and then what? take our property when we die? What's next, water charges! If older people have a valuable property and are only on a state pension, where do they get the money from? You can't get blood from a stone! I have paid taxes all my life, including 68 percent in the '80. I've paid my dues!!


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## Fiskar (7 Jan 2012)

Cannot see what the rush to pay this is for, sad to see people wanting to hand over money in any form to this government.
It is only playing into their hands to see how glad homeowners are to pay up a 100€ tax so quickly. 
Would there be a rush to pay if it were 500€ as it may well be in a short while? Paying this so quickly will only serve to have the charge increased year on year. 

Why will they not issue a geniune bill to the household? I don't pay bills unless they arrive in my letter box.
Think FG have shot themselves in the foot on this and chasing the "Silver Surfers" for tax on their pensions, can't wait to see the papers tomorrow.
Being a great start to the new year already with all the other increases, no pub for me for a year until they change the vat rate.
​


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## oldnick (7 Jan 2012)

_"there should be a property tax "_

Why should there be ? Why should people be fined (taxed) every year for  having saved to buy a property ?

_"negative equity does not justify non-payment"_

On the basis that property tax will be introduced on a sliding scale of value....
Peter has a house worth €200k and owes nothing. Peter pays €400 p.a. property tax.
Paul has a €300k house, but owes €500k to the bank - so actually he is €400k poorer in property terms than Peter, yet pays €800 property tax ?? !!.

Please, Gekko,could you  explain why this is fair -or even economically sensible ?


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## Gekko (7 Jan 2012)

oldnick said:


> _"there should be a property tax "_
> 
> Why should there be ? Why should people be fined (taxed) every year for having saved to buy a property ?
> 
> ...


 
Why should people be fined (taxed) every year for having saved to buy a car?

Negative equity is an unfortunate result of people's speculation in relation to the property market.  The very people constantly going on about negative equity would be a lot quieter if they were in the money now (i.e. if the bubble kept inflating).


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## Knuttell (8 Jan 2012)

Protocol said:


> I strongly, strongly support a property tax. I always have.



You are probably in a significant minority on that one,you seem to be positively delighted at the prospect of paying a tax to live in your own home...

Its a pity then its not an opt in/out sort of tax...if it were I reckon it would be you and roughly 20 others paying it.


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## MONAGHANSG (8 Jan 2012)

Gekko said:


> €100 per annum is nothing.



I completely disagree.  EUR100 is 'nothing' to who exactly? Maybe not to you, but to plenty of people it is something. And just because a person can afford it does not mean they automatically should pay it. Same goes for anything for which you pay money: you don't just accept being robbed/mugged/overcharged do you, even if you have the money?


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## so-crates (8 Jan 2012)

NOAH said:


> i was typing when other posts came in and exactly my thoughts.  people falling over themselves to pay a government that failed on very single promise given.  lets see how many pay up as quick next year.  in fact i think its all lies


Nope, not a lie, simply being honest. Some form of council tax is long overdue in this country. The notion of expecting sovereign borrowing to pay for services is inimical to me.



NOAH said:


> ps  i am still gobsmacked and will be so for a very long time,  this sets a bad precedent, they will do the same with water charges, mark my words


Yes I fully intend paying for water charges when they come in. 



Fiskar said:


> Cannot see what the rush to pay this is for, sad to see people wanting to hand over money in any form to this government.
> It is only playing into their hands to see how glad homeowners are to pay up a 100€ tax so quickly.
> Would there be a rush to pay if it were 500€ as it may well be in a short while? Paying this so quickly will only serve to have the charge increased year on year.
> 
> ...


Exactly why is is sad to see people handing over money in any form to this government, would it be any more palatable to a different government? Because I assure you even Sinn Fein would have had to face the consequences of their daft 'policies' and slapped on the taxes, in fact their suggestions for government policy if ever implemented would cost considerably more.

Nobody is glad to pay, people are realistic. Services cost money. We are not paying enough in this country to cover the cost of them. We are out of line with other countries because we do not pay for them.

Of course it will rise, as the website clearly states this is a token gesture to comply with the requirements of that bailout. While I would have preferred we never took the cash, while I would have preferred we never guaranteed the banks, while I would have preferred we never bailed them out - the reality is we did, therefore the money has to be paid back, therefore the terms have to be met.



Knuttell said:


> You are probably in a significant minority on that one,you seem to be positively delighted at the prospect of paying a tax to live in your own home...
> 
> Its a pity then its not an opt in/out sort of tax...if it were I reckon it would be you and roughly 20 others paying it.



The charge applies to house owners, not occupiers so it cannot be considered (at least at the moment) a tax to live in your own home.



MONAGHANSG said:


> I completely disagree.  EUR100 is 'nothing' to who exactly? Maybe not to you, but to plenty of people it is something. And just because a person can afford it does not mean they automatically should pay it. Same goes for anything for which you pay money: you don't just accept being robbed/mugged/overcharged do you, even if you have the money?


€100 is always something but in comparison to what the charge will be when it is fully implemented it is comparatively small. 
In the same vein as your second point, do you think it is okay to expect other people to pay for your services? Do you want the German taxpayers or the French or the English to do so? Our tax take is not sufficient to pay for our outgoings, we are borrowing to fund them. We are still borrowing to fund them, I don't think that welching on neighbours is appropriate nor do I think that paying for services is being robbed.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2012)

As mentioned in another thread I registered and then tried to set up a _DD _to pay it but for some reason that I cannot see the site refuses to accept my bank details. I'll get back to this when they get back to my support query email.


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## Protocol (8 Jan 2012)

Knuttell said:


> You are probably in a significant minority on that one,you seem to be positively delighted at the prospect of paying a tax to live in your own home...


 
I am not "delighted" to pay any tax.

*I am for a rebalancing of our tax system.*

I am all for property taxes.


I fully agree with new taxes like:

landfill levy
carbon tax
plastic bag tax
emissions-based tax on cars, etc.
water charges
*BUT*, I think 50%+ income tax rates on the margin are crazy. Especially for people on 35-40k.

So I think there should be a third (or fourth) income tax rate, e.g. 30%

I would like lower VAT, same as UK, 20%.

I would like the lower rate of VAT to be reduced from 13.5% to 10%.


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## paddyd (8 Jan 2012)

they need 17.7k households to register every single day from Jan 1 to March 31st.

thats about 141k as of today - how many have actually paid? 1/10th of that perhaps.

People will always pay things early 'to get it out of the way' - theres nothing to be gobsmacked about, we all do it sometimes, even if its just paying for something in the shops.

What is crucial is the total on March 31st, and how much it will cost to chase the (most likely) mass non-compliance


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## jasconius (8 Jan 2012)

I have been working for the last 30 odd years and have paid all my taxes. I remember 1976 when we had a Dutch auction by the two main parties in order to get into power. Rates was the big one (say €1,000) and was abolished as a vote getter by FF. This was the start of our economic downfall and lead to the depressions in the mid-eighties. My first mortgage in 1980 was at a rate of 16.3%.At the time I did not think that it was big - it was the going rate! We did not have 'the markets' then saying that 7% was a disaster, but equally we only had the Punt which was ours only. The Building Society limited me to 3 times my salary and 2.5 times my wife's. Oh and I was limited to a 20 year mortgage. Here I am 30 years later with no mortgage, with a sound practical working and living experience of the ups and downs of the Irish economy. 
Given my background, why wouldn't I pay a mere €100 for 2012 - lets face it we have been living in cloud-cuckooland for the last ten years - Ireland is the only country in Europe not to have any sort of Household Charge be it water or rates.
I am doing my bit in paying this charge in order to redress the mismanagement of this country.
Yes, I have suffered redundancy, yes I have suffered a 10% pay cut, yes I have children who don't all have jobs, and no I do not earn over 60k.
Neither do I want to go to jail !


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Jan 2012)

But are you going to pay it early?


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2012)

I'm also for a property tax and water charges. If they bring in water charges we will be able to invest in the water infrastructure and stop all the costly waste throught leaks and Irish people thinking water is free and they can run their taps when their is frost outside. 

Where I live I pay both and people are very careful here with water. The minute there is a leak the water company is there within the day as happened recently at 11.30 pm prior to a bank holiday when they cut the water off and at 9 am on the bank holiday two men arrived with all the gear to get it sorted with notice in my letter box that morning and a phone number to call. They worked until lunchtime and sorted it out. 

For my property tax I get great council service, services have to be paid for. To those who don't want to pay pray tell how are services to be paid for.

As for paying it before the deadline, I'll be paying as close to 31st March as is convenient.


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## bravo (9 Jan 2012)

I don't have an issue with property tax, it's the unfairness of not just this, but practivcally everything in the system. Here 's the comparison.

Mick and Joe work for thirty years in the same factory. It closes, both are made redundant. While they worked Mick sacrificed drink, smoking, clubbing etc, bought a house, and saved some money, Joe had a great time, kept renting and saved nothing. The redundancy money was saved by Mick and spent by Joe.

Move on ten years, neither have worked since. Mick lives in his own house, has reduced Social welfare payments (means-tested), has no medical card (means-tested), and is liable for household charge, water charges, property tax etc.

Joe is in subsidised rented accommodation, gets full social welfare payments, has a medical card, and is liable for no taxes/charges.

It just doesn't seem right.


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## deeheg (9 Jan 2012)

If you start dd, does that mean it will rollover to next year if they hike it up, I will pay before deadline but worried that once a direct debit started it just continues?


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## allencat3 (9 Jan 2012)

*Domestic Rates pre 1978*



jasconius said:


> I have been working for the last 30 odd years and have paid all my taxes. I remember 1976 when we had a Dutch auction by the two main parties in order to get into power. Rates was the big one (say €1,000) and was abolished as a vote getter by FF. This was the start of our economic downfall and lead to the depressions in the mid-eighties. My first mortgage in 1980 was at a rate of 16.3%.At the time I did not think that it was big - it was the going rate! We did not have 'the markets' then saying that 7% was a disaster, but equally we only had the Punt which was ours only. The Building Society limited me to 3 times my salary and 2.5 times my wife's. Oh and I was limited to a 20 year mortgage. Here I am 30 years later with no mortgage, with a sound practical working and living experience of the ups and downs of the Irish economy.
> Given my background, why wouldn't I pay a mere €100 for 2012 - lets face it we have been living in cloud-cuckooland for the last ten years - Ireland is the only country in Europe not to have any sort of Household Charge be it water or rates.
> I am doing my bit in paying this charge in order to redress the mismanagement of this country.
> Yes, I have suffered redundancy, yes I have suffered a 10% pay cut, yes I have children who don't all have jobs, and no I do not earn over 60k.
> Neither do I want to go to jail !



+1.
Likewise, we purchased our home in 1977, and the sale closed in Feb 1978, thus having never had to pay a cent in any form of rates/property tax etc ever since till 2012.  Our friends resident outside the ROI couldn't believe that.  Wonder if any AAMers who owned residential property prior to 1977 would please describe the process of Irish domestic rates? All I could remember was that the householders were issued with a certificate of rateable value (RV) fixed by the local council?
thanks, allencat


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2012)

allencat3 said:


> .
> Likewise, we purchased our home in 1977, and the sale closed in Feb 1978, thus having never had to pay a cent in any form of rates/property tax etc ever since till 2012.


 
Other than rates there was an actual property tax for about 3 years in the eighties ?  My understanding is that anyone who sells, even now may still be liable for that tax.


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## T McGibney (9 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> Irish people thinking water is free and they can run their taps when their is frost outside.



 Like you, I already pay for water, but last winter we had no option but to run our taps at night during the extreme cold spell, otherwise we were at risk of sustaining serious plumbing damage.


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2012)

T McGibney said:


> Like you, I already pay for water, but last winter we had no option but to run our taps at night during the extreme cold spell, otherwise we were at risk of sustaining serious plumbing damage.


 
And when we have water charges Irish people will ensure that their pipes are properly insulated and at a proper depth underground so that there is no chance of a burst pipe.  I had (abnormal) colder weather in Ireland last January but no one around here ran their taps.


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## T McGibney (9 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> And when we have water charges Irish people will ensure that their pipes are properly insulated and at a proper depth underground so that there is no chance of a burst pipe.



...and spend thousands digging up the tarmac and redoing the entire plumbing just to save €50 in water if there is a serious freeze? 



Bronte said:


> I had  (abnormal) colder weather in Ireland last January but no one around here  ran their taps.



Well we continued doing so for its duration, once we saw what happened some of our neighbours who hadn't done likewise.


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## Slim (9 Jan 2012)

T McGibney said:


> Well we continued doing so for its duration, once we saw what happened some of our neighbours who hadn't done likewise.


 
If we had run a tap, it would certainly have frozen at the waste pipe and flooded the house. Bad enough the water froze under the concrete at the back of the house. To have to deal with a flood in those temperatures would have fried our heads.


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## T McGibney (9 Jan 2012)

Different strokes for different folks. My point is that in our situation, all the water charges in the world wouldn't have tempted us to switch off our outside tap. The notion that water charges are going to cure a whole range of ills is a fantasy.


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## ajapale (9 Jan 2012)

T McGibney said:


> The notion that water charges are going to cure a whole range of ills is a fantasy.



This is true.. but when meters & water charges were introduced for commercial (including farming) operations a number of years ago comsumption of water was reduced dramatically. Some of the reduction can be attributed to waste reduction and some to alternative supplies from wells.


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## NOAH (9 Jan 2012)

bronte, where are you?

@so-crates 

you have got it all wrong.  the household charge wont go towards our debt or services.  The correct approach that this government or any government is to cut those cost we as a country cannot afford and that is PAY for the public service.  We are borrowing money to pay the public service salaries!!

In fact I cant believe you are serious in what you have posted.  All the services we are now been charged for were already included in the tax take.  In other words we are now paying twice.

I can gurantee you that until we cut the pay of the public sector we will never get out of this mess.  And at the same time make the rich pay a lot more in taxes but as the saying goes , it will never happen.

noah


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## ANORAKPHOBIA (9 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> I'm also for a property tax and water charges. If they bring in water charges we will be able to invest in the water infrastructure
> 
> I think it is optimistic bordering on naive to think that this is where the revenue will be spent. It is more likely to be redirected to pay the vulgar pensions of the buffoons that have recently left office.


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2012)

ANORAKPHOBIA said:


> Bronte said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is optimistic bordering on naive to think that this is where the revenue will be spent. It is more likely to be redirected to pay the vulgar pensions of the buffoons that have recently left office.
> ...


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## Jazz01 (9 Jan 2012)

> And at each election vote out the buffoons until we have those willing to be elected on a fairer system



Isn't that what we did at the last election, but all we did was replace like with like... I can't see anyone up there in the Dáil who is of any use.. no one to stand up for the people, no one that makes the hard decisions, all wishy-washy & cronyism is alive & well... I thought that this government would be better, a few months into it - still nothing, just more lies, more empty promises... oh how naive I was...


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## ajapale (9 Jan 2012)

Topic reminder: Why are so many paying the Household charge early?


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## zen (9 Jan 2012)

Noah, 
You are wasting your time, members like Protocol, socrates, clubman,  jasconius, bronte and a few more I care to remember seem to be guardians  of the status quo.  Review other threads.  Its almost like they are in  the same room.  Who on earth would advocate more taxes, after loosing our sovereignty, bailing out the very banks who are illegally threatning people with repo,  and not only that, but pay them early without challenging it?  I'll  tell you who, those who are self satisfied and most likely debt free and  strive to glide through life on the rest of our backs.  

This tax is unjustifiable, hysterically disproportionate and down right WRONG.
whinging on about other countries have it and we dont does not make it  fair.  Do they have VRT? Dont think so, so unless you are going to make  comparisons, make fair ones. Water charges? The plannet is covered in  it, it falls from the sky and if there is one thing Ireland aint got a  shortage of its water, its like having a snow tax for the eskimos.

And for the record, RTE's pathetic propaganda to portray the thousands  of people flocking up to pay this is down right arrogant and an insult  to anyone intellegence.  Those who have paid are either debt fee or  almost debt free or just sucumbed to fear.  I have actually not met ONE  person who said they are paying this.  Most of us already pay management  fees of 100 p/m with no tax credits on top of our mortgage and now  this?  I'll be working till I'm 80 at this rate! 

All I can say is I pitty the younger generation.


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## Purple (9 Jan 2012)

zen said:


> Who on earth would advocate more taxes, after loosing our sovereignty, bailing out the very banks who are illegally threatning people with repo,  and not only that, but pay them early without challenging it?  I'll  tell you who, those who are self satisfied and most likely debt free and  strive to glide through life on the rest of our backs.


 I’m in favour of more taxes like this and less tax on work. I’m neither debt free or strive to glide through life on anyone’s back. I can be a bit self satisfied on occasion.



zen said:


> This tax is unjustifiable, hysterically disproportionate and down right WRONG.
> whinging on about other countries have it and we dont does not make it  fair.  Do they have VRT? Dont think so, so unless you are going to make  comparisons, make fair ones. Water charges? The plannet is covered in  it, it falls from the sky and if there is one thing Ireland aint got a  shortage of its water, its like having a snow tax for the eskimos.


 We pay less tax per head (taking everything onto account) than most other Western European countries.  Water gets treated and piped to your house. That costs a lot of money.



zen said:


> Those who have paid are either debt fee or  almost debt free or just sucumbed to fear.


 Wrong again. I’m paying because it’s my duty as a citizen.



zen said:


> All I can say is I pity the younger generation.


  So do I; the people running this country since Bertie took over have ruined it.


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## billybound (9 Jan 2012)

Gekko said:


> There should be a property tax and being in negative equity doesn't justify non payment of the tax.
> 
> €100 per annum is nothing.
> 
> When it rises to its true level, people on very low incomes should be partially exempted from the tax.


 
To some it is nothing, however say this to a friend of mine who had to borrow money from parents for their kids christmas presents.

100 euros is a lot to them!


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## billybound (9 Jan 2012)

Gekko said:


> Why should people be fined (taxed) every year for having saved to buy a car?
> 
> Negative equity is an unfortunate result of people's speculation in relation to the property market. The very people constantly going on about negative equity would be a lot quieter if they were in the money now (i.e. if the bubble kept inflating).


 
It wasn't all speculation, many bought as at the time it was cheaper than to rent. Not done to make a  quick buck as you are seeming to state but to actually live in.


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## billybound (9 Jan 2012)

ajapale said:


> Topic reminder: Why are so many paying the Household charge early?


 
If is is because of the fear of going to jail, then considering the government  cancelled the new jail near garristown, where will they put everyone?


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## roker (9 Jan 2012)

Are the Government departments eg. Tax office so quick to pay money before it is due?


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## horusd (9 Jan 2012)

I set up a DD coz I like getting bills out of the way, and I agree that such taxes are necessary . Actually like lots here, I believe in being a good citizen and pulling my weight.

Having said that, I feel ambivalent about how the government will use this. Past performance of governments in managing the country has been poor to say the least. Overpaid incompetent managers (both politicians and CS) who can't or won't do a decent job, or never get fired if they mess up (Cardiff comes to mind), or who won't go after the tax-dodgers or the perhaps criminally incompetent previous politicians or their pensions leave me livid and disinclined to contribute.  

The recent pensions debacle is a case in point. People on PAYE for yrs, Revenue and Welfare don't talk to each other, and then blame the old folks,coz they didn't do their job properly - all for €47 million which is probably what will be paid in  Revenue overtime and A&E visits by old people after all the shock of recent weeks. This post will be deleted if not edited immediately wept.


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## billybound (9 Jan 2012)

horusd said:


> I set up a DD coz I like getting bills out of the way, and I agree that such taxes are necessary . Actually like lots here, I believe in being a good citizen and pulling my weight.
> 
> Having said that, I feel ambivalent about how the government will use this. Past performance of governments in managing the country has been poor to say the least. Overpaid incompetent managers (both politicians and CS) who can't or won't do a decent job, or never get fired if they mess up (Cardiff comes to mind), or who won't go after the tax-dodgers or the perhaps criminally incompetent previous politicians or their pensions leave me livid and disinclined to contribute.
> 
> The recent pensions debacle is a case in point. People on PAYE for yrs, Revenue and Welfare don't talk to each other, and then blame the old folks,coz they didn't do their job properly - all for €47 million which is probably what will be paid in Revenue overtime and A&E visits by old people after all the shock of recent weeks. This post will be deleted if not edited immediately wept.


 
That is what they are hoping for, good citizens like yourself to pay up and not ask questions.
They are taking us all for a ride, I am sick of hearing how much the top public sector employees are earning. They seriously  need to reduce the salaries to what other EU states are earning.
How Ireland has such high wages for these people surprises me so much. What does Ireland actually do outside of its small insignificant country?
I'm sure merkel and sarkozy are asking these questions daily.


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## Fiskar (9 Jan 2012)

Bravo,

Couldn't have said it better myself, no incentive left in this country to work hard or buy a house. 
Who has most at the end of the day when you retire, the OAP with the house he worked hard to buy, a modest pension, taxes and charges plus all the maintenace costs for having a house or the OAP on the state pension, renting the council house, on social welfare assistance, fuel allowance etc, paying no taxes or charges. Its a mugs game



bravo said:


> I don't have an issue with property tax, it's the unfairness of not just this, but practivcally everything in the system. Here 's the comparison.
> 
> Mick and Joe work for thirty years in the same factory. It closes, both are made redundant. While they worked Mick sacrificed drink, smoking, clubbing etc, bought a house, and saved some money, Joe had a great time, kept renting and saved nothing. The redundancy money was saved by Mick and spent by Joe.
> 
> ...


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Jan 2012)

I don't think that anything further can be said to add to this thread.

Brendan


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