# Landlords may be allowed write off property tax as expense



## Knuttell (19 Jan 2013)

> PROPERTY investors will be able to deduct the property tax from their rental income when filing a tax return.
> 
> The move could ease the burden on buy-to-let investors, many of whom are struggling to meet mortgage repayments.
> 
> ...




The bad news is the source of this story is the Irish Independent.


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## TenantRef (30 Jan 2013)

What are they playing at with all this carry on. If you incur a charge which is necessary in order to carry out your business, this is an allowable deduction. To think that the government can just change a fundamental rule of business over night is ridiculous. Is there no legal views on this.


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## mandelbrot (30 Jan 2013)

Property tax is a tax on property ownership, not letting of property. 

You pay it regardless of whether you let the house.

Of course Revenues view is entirely open to a legal challenge.


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## T McGibney (30 Jan 2013)

mandelbrot said:


> Property tax is a tax on property ownership, not letting of property.
> 
> You pay it regardless of whether you let the house.
> 
> .


The same can be said of buildings insurance and ESB standing 
charges but I don't think you propose disallowing them.



mandelbrot said:


> Of course Revenues view is entirely open to a legal challenge.



Nobody is going to mount a High Court challenge for the sake of a tax relief worth a few hundred euro.


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## mandelbrot (30 Jan 2013)

T McGibney said:


> The same can be said of buildings insurance and ESB standing
> charges but I don't think you propose disallowing them.



Neither of those charges derive from the mere ownership of a property.

I'm only playing devils advocate by the way, it's not right, but it's their present position until lobbying or an Appeal commissioner or judge force the issue, which as you say is unlikely.


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## oldnick (30 Jan 2013)

Are not rates a deductible expense as per the relevant legislation?

Is not the local property charge a rate ? If not, what is a rate?


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## mandelbrot (31 Jan 2013)

oldnick said:


> Are not rates a deductible expense as per the relevant legislation?
> 
> Is not the local property charge a rate ? If not, what is a rate?



Déjà vu all over again... We already had this thread last year Nick (albeit in relation to NPPR)!!

The LPT is a tax, not a rate.

IIRC the relevant part of the Tax Act provides that rates levied by a local authority would be an allowable deduction. LPT is a tax levied and collected by central Government.


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## oldnick (31 Jan 2013)

Yes, as regards the NPPR -certainly a rate (as strongly believed to be by the Tax Institute). Certainly collected by local authorities.

That's why I put it as an expense. 
But as you say - who is going to fight this for a few hundred euros ?
 I already put this down two years ago (the fact I am claiming NPPR as an expense) on my expression of doubt on my form 11 . I was looking forward to using my brilliance in arguing the matter. But I got no reply. 

(which could mean that nobody read it -but it's on record. How far to push Revenue on this ? Do i want an audit or other hassle? As NPPR is ending this year,no.)

As regards local property charge:-
Local authorities, I thought, will have the discretion to vary the property charge by 10% either way-is that not the case ? Will this not mean that  local authorities will levy the rate - within certain parameters set by government (Revenue). ?


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## mandelbrot (31 Jan 2013)

oldnick said:


> Yes, as regards the NPPR -certainly a rate (as strongly believed to be by the Tax Institute). Certainly collected by local authorities.


 
The local authorities acted as the collection agent for central Govt, that doesn't mean they levied the charge.



oldnick said:


> As regards local property charge:-
> Local authorities, I thought, will have the discretion to vary the property charge by 10% either way-is that not the case ? Will this not mean that local authorities will levy the rate - within certain parameters set by government (Revenue). ?


 
The variation band is 15% either direction, and I hadn't heard about that until you said it and I checked the Act there (it's in S.19 or 20 of the LPT Act). That's interesting - it definitely starts to look more like a rate then alright!


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## oldnick (31 Jan 2013)

Yes the property charge could be interpreted as a rate and I expect you, Mandelbrot, to fight this on our behalf !

As regards the NPPR -the government imposed the charge ,the local authorities collected it. 
I thought that monies collected by the NPPR was for use of local authorities.If so, then the local authorities collected on behalf of themselves, not the govnt.  If NPPR  was not for use of local authorities my case is weaker.
Incidentally "levied" is also defined as "collected" in Oxford Dic.

However, your mission , if you choose to accept it,  is to insist local property charge is a rate and must be an expense.


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## DrMoriarty (31 Jan 2013)

You know what Tom Cruise would do.


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## Eithneangela (31 Jan 2013)

Jump up and down on the couch? Call in the Scientologists? Grow 2 feet and be like Reacher? Really interested in this thread, joking apart.


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## mandelbrot (31 Jan 2013)

DrMoriarty said:


> You know what Tom Cruise would do.


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