# Solar Panels



## Haille (17 Nov 2021)

I got a quote from  for 12 panel 4.7 kwp system plus 4.8 kwp battery  pack €13,353 - €3000 grant = €10353 or for the same 12 panels with a 7.2 kwp battery pack €14,998-€3000 grant = €11990. A requirement is that after the installation the BER rating must reach C3 minimum or my BER must be at least a D before installation. When I contacted a local assessor he quoted me €600 for doing a BER which seems exhorbitant. 
 I also got a call from Active 8 who quoted me €19,502 originally less subsidy awarded for advertising €2352 less €3000 grant .Total €14,250. On his written quote he does not seem to have written what the quote included??
Is the first quote reasonable.?I have lots of roof space. Is planning permission needed for more than 12 panels?


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## Leo (17 Nov 2021)

See this previous thread. 

If you want to discuss the BER issue here, I can delete the other thread? Duplicating questions leads to disjointed threads.


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## Haille (17 Nov 2021)

Ok thanks


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## User1970 (18 Nov 2021)

Please check out the 2020 Quotes thread as I have advised previous posters asking similar Questions. Boards.ie. It is a great way to read into Solar PV and a mine of information. 


Neither of those quotes are competitive. You can get quotes 1,000's cheaper for the setup you have described or get a much larger system for the same price. You are fortunate you haven't signed up with either.


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## Shirazman (18 Nov 2021)

User1970 said:


> Please check out the 2020 Quotes thread as I have advised previous posters asking similar Questions. Boards.ie. It is a great way to read into Solar PV and a mine of information.



Problem is than, although that Boards.ie thread has lots of useful information, it has, as I write 4,800 posts in it - and that's a heck of a lot of reading!     

I recently received a quote for JA solar panels but have no idea whether or not they're any good - and a couple of Boards.ie searches haven't really helped!


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## User1970 (18 Nov 2021)

Well worth the investment in scanning that thread to understand the issues and as much as practical about installing solar PV. 
Couple of hours reading could save 1,000s and result in the most appropriate install for your circumstances. 
There is no 1 size fits all for PV solar and variables such as Water Diverter, Battery usage and sizing, Car Charge point and your usage all need to be understood and considered. 
All installs aren't the same and a bit of time spent researching will highlight the importance of orientation, pitch, shading etc.


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## Shirazman (18 Nov 2021)

User1970 said:


> Well worth the investment in scanning that thread to understand the issues and as much as practical about installing solar PV.
> Couple of hours reading could save 1,000s and result in the most appropriate install for your circumstances.
> There is no 1 size fits all for PV solar and variables such as Water Diverter, Battery usage and sizing, Car Charge point and your usage all need to be understood and considered.
> All installs aren't the same and a bit of time spent researching will highlight the importance of orientation, pitch, shading etc.



Alternatively, one ends up more confused and with one's head spinning!


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## User1970 (18 Nov 2021)

Personally I feel it is incredibly useful to have that information available but of course if one chooses not to use that resource then there are plenty of Solar PV Sales companies out there who will happily give you a price and install Solar PV without you doing any research, personally I prefer to use those resources and clarify my thinking and requirements. 

I've learned a huge amount from trawling that thread and got a well sized system that meets our needs and is generating in line with my expectations.


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## Shirazman (18 Nov 2021)

User1970 said:


> Couple of hours reading could save 1,000s and result in the most appropriate install for your circumstances.



Well, if you managed to read some 4,800 threads - at least 75% of which are uninformative - in a "couple of hours", then you're a better man than me!   

So I'll settle for getting my three local quotes, interrogating the tenderers, talking to some of their references and then making an uninformed decision.   What could possibly go wrong?


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## User1970 (19 Nov 2021)

For some reason you have quoted me selectively, I never claimed I had read every post or that the person seeking the advice here needed to.

What I wrote-

'Well worth the investment in scanning that thread to understand the issues and as much as practical about installing solar PV.
Couple of hours reading could save 1,000s and result in the most appropriate install for your circumstances.'

I pointed the person seeking the advice at the most comprehensive source of information for Solar PV installation prices in Ireland in response to their original request. 

You are of course free to settle on any basis you wish, my advice wasn't to you.


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## Nicklesilver (19 Nov 2021)

Let’s be nice and be helpful, maybe there are 1 or 2 nuggets could be shared in summary To help guide the novice seeker


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## Zenith63 (19 Nov 2021)

My suggestion with that boards.ie thread (and most of the megathreads on there) is to read it from the most recent post backwards.  Within 2 pages at the moment you'll come across 4-5 other quotes for solar panels and can start to get a good sense of what the current market rate is for a system.

In Haille's case they'll see others are receiving quotes at least a few thousand below the quotes they've received, so they can push their supplier further or reach out to somebody on boards.ie to see where they got their quote.


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## Haille (21 Nov 2021)

Many thanks for all your suggestions.The Boards.ie thread was very helpful also.Great to get independent advice as once you start looking for quotes unless you can compare them it is very difficult to decipher


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## Alkers86 (22 Nov 2021)

Terrible price for panels and terrible price for BER!


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## Haille (8 Dec 2021)

I got another quote from a company in Ulster for 16 panels 345 watts. 5 kw pure drive battery, 5 kw hybrid solis inverter, WiFi dongle, price €10900 including vat.€3000 grant off the above figure.Any comments


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## User1970 (9 Dec 2021)

You have come a long way from your first quote. 

Depending on house type, single or two storey, roof type (Slate, tiles or other) that latest quote may be very competitive. Who pays for the BER required for the Grant Application? 
Can you pay Net and have the company receive the grant directly?


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## Alkers86 (9 Dec 2021)

What is your intention here.

That's a decent quote, allthough if you're looking for a system to pay for itself ASAP, a much smaller sytem will do this much more quickly.

If you're looking to minimise your own consumption from the grid, environmentally motivated etc then a battery system may make sense but the financials are up in the air currently.






						PV Solar - Battery or not?
					

If so, would my potential increased upload capacity be in the region of 25% more than the standard connection, or is that too simplistic?  No, it's as simple as that really, though a 16kVA line will support 33% more than a 12kVA one.  Whether that would make financial sense will depend on the...



					www.askaboutmoney.com


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## FANTANA (9 Dec 2021)

As a rule of thumb you should try aim for €1k per 1kw system and €1k for 2.5 kWh of battery storage, this is after grants.


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## FANTANA (9 Dec 2021)

Haille said:


> I got another quote from a company in Ulster for 16 panels 345 watts. 5 kw pure drive battery, 5 kw hybrid solis inverter, WiFi dongle, price €10900 including vat.€3000 grant off the above figure.Any comments


Decent quote. Could you ask them for a 6kw inverter for the same price? Will help future proof in case you want more panels going forward.


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## Laughahalla (9 Dec 2021)

Haille said:


> I got a quote from  for 12 panel 4.7 kwp system plus 4.8 kwp battery  pack €13,353 - €3000 grant = €10353 or for the same 12 panels with a 7.2 kwp battery pack €14,998-€3000 grant = €11990. A requirement is that after the installation the BER rating must reach C3 minimum or my BER must be at least a D before installation. When I contacted a local assessor he quoted me €600 for doing a BER which seems exhorbitant.
> I also got a call from Active 8 who quoted me €19,502 originally less subsidy awarded for advertising €2352 less €3000 grant .Total €14,250. On his written quote he does not seem to have written what the quote included??
> Is the first quote reasonable.?I have lots of roof space. Is planning permission needed for more than 12 panels?


Both overpriced. 4.7kw with 4.8kw battery should cost about 6k after grant.


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## Shirazman (13 Dec 2021)

FANTANA said:


> As a rule of thumb you should try aim for €1k per 1kw system and €1k for 2.5 kWh of battery storage, this is after grants.



Could you gross this up for those of us who aren't eligible for any grants, please?


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## FANTANA (18 Dec 2021)

Shirazman said:


> Could you gross this up for those of us who aren't eligible for any grants, please?


Max grant for solar panels is €2,400 up to 4kw. Then the battery grant is €600. If you are not grant eligible I would drop the battery idea and just go for panels with a a standard inverter instead of hybrid. You could go down the hot water diverter route for €500 and store your energy that way.  Can be a good time to upgrade the hot water tank it but as your house is 2011 or newer I doubt that will be needed.


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## FANTANA (18 Dec 2021)

FANTANA said:


> Max grant for solar panels is €2,400 up to 4kw. Then the battery grant is €600. If you are not grant eligible I would drop the battery idea and just go for panels with a a standard inverter instead of hybrid. You could go down the hot water diverter route for €500 and store your energy that way.  Can be a good time to upgrade the hot water tank it but as your house is 2011 or newer I doubt that will be needed.


Forgot to add, if you are getting an EV soon between this and the hot water diverter you will use a good chunk of your excess and you can get this installed same time as the panels with a €600 grant. A FIT system is coming soon too which will also help.


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## jim (22 Dec 2021)

Is it correct to say that the more roof space you have the more panels you can install the more electricity you can generate the more you will save?

Is there any way to calculate what your rebate might be if you were able to sell excess back to the grid?

For example roof area is approx 115 meter sq facing east/west and living in the west.

Trying to figure out how worth my while it might be to install panels.

Thanks


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## Alkers86 (22 Dec 2021)

jim said:


> Is it correct to say that the more roof space you have the more panels you can install the more electricity you can generate the more you will save?
> 
> Is there any way to calculate what your rebate might be if you were able to sell excess back to the grid?
> 
> ...


No, not really.

The more panels you have the more you can generate absolutely.

But even with a small system, circa 2.5kW of panels, for a typical household on bright days you will generate more electricity than you can use. If you get a large array, you will typically generate much more electricity than you can use. Obviously, the panels won't generate anything when it's dark and during the winter when the days are dull, even a big array can actually end up prodcuing quite little. For example, we have a 2.5kW array in south Dublin, facing due south. In the summer we can get up to 16kWh (about €4 worth of electricity) generated on good days, in the winter the lowest I've seen is 0.9kWh (about 22.5c worth of electricty). This is when the batteries become relevant but they add significantly to the cost. If you go with a battery, you also need a hrbrid inverter which is more expensive than a standard one.

The FIT has kind of been announced but the amount has been left for the individual providers to determine. To give you an idea of the money invovled, a €200 amount has been allowed for in the budget, tax free. Anything above this will need to be declared as income and treated as such.

If you are doing this for purely financial reasons, the best option is to install the cheapest small system you can find. This will result in you self-consuming as much of the electricity as possible and result in the quickest payback. You should be able to get 2.5kW installed for €3,600 after all grants. However, if there is no-one at home during the day, you won't save much money with a system like this. Note that the grants are going to decrease by €300 per year starting in 2023.

If you spend €10,000 on a large array with battery storage and a hot water diverter, you may well end up with a very low electricity bill and be able to run your house off-grid for six months of the year, however it may well take you 15 years to recoup the €10,000 in outlay.

TLDR - it depends on your electricty usage profile as much as it does the size of the system.


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## jim (22 Dec 2021)

Very helpful thank you!


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## Leo (28 Dec 2021)

jim said:


> Is it correct to say that the more roof space you have the more panels you can install the more electricity you can generate the more you will save?


Only if you can use it, or feed it back to the grid once the Clean Export Guarantee scheme comes online. The maximum you will be able to feed back to the grid will be limited by the supply line to your property.


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## Cameo (4 Mar 2022)

Apologies for thread hijacking but I’d love to get some independent advice

my house has a geothermal heat pump and lots of down lighters.. i paid 4.5k in electricity bills last year

house is 2004 build but well very well insulated for time ( could do with new windows though to improve things)

last BER was b3 for what its worth

i switch electricity provide every year so 4.5k would be closer to 6k if I didn’t

So my question is should I get solar panels and if so how much would it reduce my bills buy.?

Ive got one quote of 13k(panels and battery) where the sale guy Said it would reduce bills by 50%..

as Above would love some independent advice on this

the heat pump was installed in 2004 so is probably coming to end of life. Whilst a newer system is no doubt more efficient I’d prefer to see how long it lasts; it’s a NIBE system and has been very low maintenance so far

would appreciate any pointers on what research I should be doing

thanks

other info.

house has a large slate directly south facing roof so I assume this would improve efficiency 
i expect we’ll get at least one EV in the near future
we’ve a day and night electricity meter


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## Zenith63 (4 Mar 2022)

Cameo said:


> So my question is should I get solar panels and if so how much would it reduce my bills buy.?
> 
> Ive got one quote of 13k(panels and battery) where the sale guy Said it would reduce bills by 50%..


50% is far too optimistic I would say. In my case since my panels and battery went in I’ve generated about 7000kWh of the 16000kWh my house has consumed, so 43%. But that doesn’t mean my bills are down by 43% because there are all the bits of the bill that are not the unit cost. Also in your case I’d guess you’re consuming most of that electricity in the winter months when you’ll be generating very little solar.  Taking a complete stab in the dark a decent sized system might bring your bill down 25-30%?

The best thing you could do would be to get an energy monitor (like the Efergy units on Amazon) and start to see how much power you’re consuming when.

€13k sound expensive for a solar system but it totally depends on how many panels and the size of the battery, if you share some more details others can comment.


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## Micks'r (4 Mar 2022)

Cameo said:


> So my question is should I get solar panels



If it was my house I would take a fabric first approach and invest to reduce the need for so much energy rather than change how the energy is supplied.
Also, keep in mind that when your hp needs the energy most there is least solar available.


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## _OkGo_ (4 Mar 2022)

Cameo said:


> i switch electricity provide every year so 4.5k would be closer to 6k if I didn’t
> 
> So my question is should I get solar panels and if so how much would it reduce my bills buy.?


I think you are asking the wrong question. €4.5k in bills must be 20k units or more per year. That is an exceptionally high usage. 

So either your house is enormous (~3000sqft) or you have very high temperature settings throughout your house. 

In my opinion, solar is never a good pairing with heat pumps because (as others have said) solar provides very little in winter when heat pumps require a heavy load.

I would start with trying to understand your usage habits are, for example:

How many units did you use last year and what is the day/night split?
Are all of your stats set unnecessarily high (above 21°C)
Are there rooms or sections of your home that get very little use?
Have you other energy intensive equipment that is a significant contribution to your bill (eg. Power tools related to your profession)
Are you overheating water?
It is very likely that you can significantly reduce your usage and bill with some changes to your behaviour. Only then can you properly quantify the impact solar will have and what size system you would actually need


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## Cameo (4 Mar 2022)

Thanks for the reply

House is about 3500 square foot (double height ceilings; think Celtic tiger,we bought but didn't design and original owner would have a lot more means than us so energy efficiency was probably not high up in terms of priorities)

Downstairs we aim for 20 degrees in main living areas, rest of house is 17(upstairs)  or 18 hall etc.

Not sure how many units we use annually but must be 20k kwh or so

Nearly all usage is on daytime metre too

Details of the set up I was quoted for shown below :


High power output of 6.8kWp
Top of the range 18-panel system
Includes Inverter
10 kWh Battery
Solar Generation: ~6,200kW
I dont know much about solar but it given our usage is mostly Nov to Feb I'd question how much wed get back from solar


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## Cameo (4 Mar 2022)

Micks'r said:


> If it was my house I would take a fabric first approach and invest to reduce the need for so much energy rather than change how the energy is supplied.
> Also, keep in mind that when your hp needs the energy most there is least solar available.


Thanks, without knowing too much about it your suggestion makes sense.


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## Cameo (4 Mar 2022)

I agree there is a timing mismatch between when solar generates power and when wed use it; given we probably use 20kwh each year I'd guess we'd want a very large capacity battery


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## Cameo (5 Mar 2022)

Another thought struck me I assume there are no regulations around sales people for solar panel companies and the like making outlandish claims as to savings that could be achieved?


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## jim (5 Mar 2022)

Caveat emptor


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## Zenith63 (5 Mar 2022)

Cameo said:


> Another thought struck me I assume there are no regulations around sales people for solar panel companies and the like making outlandish claims as to savings that could be achieved?


It is critical to get multiple quotes and I'd also post your best one here or on the boards.ie Renewable Energies Forum to see if others have found better deals.  Some of the most professional and polished solar companies are charging twice or more for the same systems.  But there are some really great companies out there that are a pleasure to work with.


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## Leo (7 Mar 2022)

Cameo said:


> Another thought struck me I assume there are no regulations around sales people for solar panel companies and the like making outlandish claims as to savings that could be achieved?


Ask them to put their claims in writing and provide a guarantee...see how quickly they back-peddle.


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## presidenttttt (20 Aug 2022)

Very similar usage and size house as @Cameo . Also have heat pump. What did you do in the end?


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