# Cheapest way to invest in BOI managed funds



## eosh (24 Aug 2007)

Myself and my husband are looking at investing in the BOI managed funds; Evergreen, Trilogy & Innovator. These were recommended to us by our local branch investment manager. He quoted us an annual management charge of 1.5% & 1.75% depending on the fund. I have since read on this site that I can invest in some funds through myadvisor.com for a total charge of .75% per annum. Is this correct and if so, does the 1% addtional charge per BOI relate to comission? (because the BOI guy never mentioned commission).

I would really appreciate any advice/help.


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2007)

eosh said:


> These were recommended to us by our local branch investment manager.


Don't expect independent, professional advice in your best interests from a tied agent. If you want this then go to a good multi-agency intermediary or authorised advisor.


> He quoted us an annual management charge of 1.5% & 1.75% depending on the fund. I have since read on this site that I can invest in some funds through myadvisor.com for a total charge of .75% per annum. Is this correct and if so, does the 1% addtional charge per BOI relate to comission? (because the BOI guy never mentioned commission).


Maybe you can get a better deal on charges by going through a discount (possibly execution only - i.e. no advice) broker rather than going direct.


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## South (24 Aug 2007)

Yes you certainly can get a better deal than the one they offered...you can get in for a 101% (allocation) and an annual management charge of between 0.625% and 0.75% (depending on whether or not your contribution is over €100K) if you were to use an execution only broker on a fee basis.


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## eosh (24 Aug 2007)

Thanks a million for your replies. They are much appreciated. We have decided to go with the funds I mentioned above along with a Friends first property fund because we just found that we were getting bogged down with all the different choices of products out there. We inherited the money earlier in the year and we are anxious to take it off deposit and invest it. 

We thought that these three funds sounded very good - has anyone heard anything about them?


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2007)

If you are getting bogged down then get *independent *advice.


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## capall (26 Aug 2007)

There is no need to be anxious to rush into funds at the moment with stock markets still in turmoil and deposit rates better than they've been for a while.

If you invest now and the market hasn't bottomed out yet you will be losing money by christmas. In the current climate if you are risk averse you should be waiting before plunging into the stock markets,there is nothing wrong with keeping your money on deposit for a while.

I also would not be too keen to invest in a property fund at the moment and the BOI evergreen fund has a high property quota also.

All funds sound good but whether you want to invest in them should depend on better analysis than just that they sound good


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## ClubMan (26 Aug 2007)

On the other hand timing the market is a mug's game...


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## MugsGame (26 Aug 2007)

I resemble that remark!


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## South (27 Aug 2007)

Paying a 1.75% fund management charge is also a mug's game!


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## capall (27 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> On the other hand timing the market is a mug's game...


 

So,you totally disregard whats happening in the markets at the moment ?
A bit of common sense is allowed surely


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## South (27 Aug 2007)

Surely it depends on their investment horizon?

If its one to two years - the current climate may be a bit choppy to dip in to equities...if it's ten to twenty years, now might be a good time to try get in low after markets took a bit of a battering.


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## iorras (28 Aug 2007)

eosh said:


> Thanks a million for your replies. They are much appreciated. We have decided to go with the funds I mentioned above along with a Friends first property fund because we just found that we were getting bogged down with all the different choices of products out there. We inherited the money earlier in the year and we are anxious to take it off deposit and invest it.
> 
> We thought that these three funds sounded very good - has anyone heard anything about them?


I've taken lots of advice recently from both tied agents and independent advisors. I paid a fee to one and the other my employer paid for as I am being laid off and its part of the seperation package. What I've learned is that nobody has all the answers and that you can get the same level of financial advice from doing your own research, this site is excellent in that regard. I'm not being critical of independent financial advisors, just making the point that you shouldnt take their advice blindly, use them for pointers and do the rest of the legwork yourself. Theres no such thing as a free lunch and all that.
The Friends first proerty fund does lokk very good, the moneymate figures are quiet impressive and the properties they have invested in seem like good solid long term investments.


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## bsloe (28 Aug 2007)

would it not be better to concentrate on the returns of the funds you are investing in rather than the charges? If a fund i invest in has high returns, i dont mind paying 1-2 % if the fund is performing above the average. Is this not relevant or am I missing the point....in saying that, is there anywhere you can get a comparison of all the funds that are available


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## Dave Vanian (29 Aug 2007)

bsloe said:


> would it not be better to concentrate on the returns of the funds you are investing in rather than the charges? If a fund i invest in has high returns, i dont mind paying 1-2 % if the fund is performing above the average. Is this not relevant or am I missing the point....


 
The problem with that is that it is impossible to predict which funds are going to outperform in the future.  Looking at how they're doing now or have done in the past is of little or no use.


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## gonk (29 Aug 2007)

Dave Vanian said:


> The problem with that is that it is impossible to predict which funds are going to outperform in the future.


 
It is obviously impossible to predict with certainty, but if you don't do some research and choose an investment accordingly, you might as well stick a pin in a list of funds. 



Dave Vanian said:


> Looking at how they're doing now or have done in the past is of little or no use.


 
You seem to be making the false assumption the only way one might try to differentiate between investments is to look at past performance.


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## Dave Vanian (29 Aug 2007)

You misunderstand me.  Bsloe seems to be inferring that he would choose a fund based on how it is performing.  I believe that this would be a poor way to choose a fund.


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## capall (29 Aug 2007)

While as the Ads says "past performance is no guarantee of future returns "
you cannot say past performance is not relevant. I would must prefer to invest in a managed fund that has had good returns to date than one that has underformed .

To say that past performance is not relevant is just not the case.

Funds are managed by human beings ,some fund managers are just better than others as in all walks of life


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## Dave Vanian (29 Aug 2007)

Okay - I admit I was perhaps a bit too cut'n'dried in my earlier post. *Consistently* above-average performance - when measured by an *independent* source against a peer group across *a number of time-frames* that are *not* decided by the fund manager - can be useful in making a decision as to the skills of a fund manager. 

But product charges and suitability of funds to one's own preferences also need to be taken into account before making a decision. 

I suppose I get irritated when I see marketing blurb that screams - "*We're the number one fund manager so invest with us!*" and in small print says "...when measured against two other funds over a period of 241 days..."

Too many people fall into the trap of reading the past performance tables in the media and using them alone to pick a fund.


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## boaber (30 Aug 2007)

Dave Vanian said:


> I suppose I get irritated when I see marketing blurb that screams - "*We're the number one fund manager so invest with us!*" and in small print says "...when measured against two other funds over a period of 241 days..."
> 
> Too many people fall into the trap of reading the past performance tables in the media and using them alone to pick a fund.



Agreed.  IMO there's a lot of cherrypicking by some IMs so that they make it sound that their fund is the best in the marketplace.  Plus, they may not be comparing like with like,


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## Bez (30 Aug 2007)

Dave Vanian said:


> *Consistently* above-average performance - when measured by an *independent* source against a peer group across *a number of time-frames* that are *not* decided by the fund manager - can be useful in making a decision as to the skills of a fund manager.
> 
> 
> Too many people fall into the trap of reading the past performance tables in the media and using them alone to pick a fund.


 
Wouldn't the investment performance tables in the media be, as you say "measured by an independent source">


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## Dave Vanian (30 Aug 2007)

Yes they are.  Moneymate is often the provider of such information.


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## Bez (30 Aug 2007)

So people should use them when reviewing fund choice so?


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## capall (30 Aug 2007)

Its not rocket science to assess yourself how a fund is doing,look at its returns and look at the returns of other funds you might be interested in,normally easily available from their websites and know what the average market returns were for those periods.

Of course you take other factors into account,if you are looking at really high returns from property funds over the last few years you might be thinking that that is not going to be matched in future years.

If you read in the paper that Eagle Stars top fund managers have jumped ship ,you might reconsider investing in their funds 

Basically you should
1)Know what level of risk you want,low ,medium ,high
2)Know what time frame you want to invest for
3)Understand are there particular geographical areas or markets you would like to be invested in based on your own analysis or preferences
4)If you have no knowledge or interest in the markets take advice and probably stick with a fund with good diversification
5)When you have established the above ,do online research on the funds provided by all the main players and if dealing with a broker look at the funds he is recommending
6)Compare annual charges on the funds and understand all initial fees ,costs etc and exit fees,if using a broker push them to get you the best deal here


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