# A friend going though a particulary hard time at work



## pinkyBear (13 May 2010)

Hi there guys,

As the title suggests a friend of mine is going though a really difficult time at work. She told me yesterday that she has "been hung out to dry"... She wants/needs to leave because things are increasingly bad for her. 

If she hads in her notice now would she be intitled to job seekers if she did not find work straight away?

Cheers,
P


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## Welfarite (13 May 2010)

You can be disqualified from recieving JB/JA for up to 9 weeks if SW decide that you volunarily left your job without 'good cause'. The reasoning behind this is to prevent people leaving jobs in order to avail SW payments for some ulterior motive (i.e. qualify downt the road for, say, Back to Education Scheme, stay at home to raise a family,etc..)

The guidelines state the following; "'Good cause' is not defined and it is for the Deciding Officer to apply a common sense meaning to the expression in considering the case. Factors that may be taken into account could include the circumstances surrounding any changes in working conditions, the financial situation of the firm; whether leaving the employment amounted to constructive dismissal (i.e. the person left the employment following harassment/abuse from the employer)."

Your friend would seem to fall into the 'constructive dismissal' category. If she leaves, she should put in writing her reasons for leaving, citing it as 'constructive dismissal' in her view. SW usually look at such cases benevolently as it is obvious there is no ulterior motive for leaving and the person is not gaining anything by being on JB/JA.


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## pinkyBear (13 May 2010)

Cheers Welfarite, I appreciate your responce. My friend is going through a really difficult time at work.. And is now getting chest pain etc. She wants to get another job and is doing up her CV this week end. Things for her are pretty bad at the moment, and she wants to hand in her notice. She was worried that if she left voluntarily that if she could not find anything she may not be eligible for anything...

The thing is, if she cites stress or anything else - she may not get another job anytime soon.. So She does not want to go down that route. Basically she wants to hand in her notice and get a proper reference to enable her to move on..
P


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## droileen (13 May 2010)

Before your friend makes any move to leave her present job, she should make her concerns known in writing to her present Employer/ HR Manager - I know it will be hard for her but it is the only right course of action open to her - at least she can "bench mark" her grievances & she will be seen to have acted reasonably & to have given her employer a reasonable opportunity to "fix" matters, before "putting the gun to their head", so to speak, by her walking out. 
She should clearly mark the heading of the letter "Without Prejudice" in order to protect herself.


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## pinkyBear (26 Jul 2010)

Hi there,
I hope all is well, to give an update on what is happening here, and possibly look for more advise. My friend decided to toughen it out, she has alot of financial commitments so handing in her notice was not really an option.

About 7 weeks ago, my friend was asked into a meeting with HR, she was informed that there were issues in how she was managing a project no specifics were given. The agreement was she would do a presentation in 6 weeks and if there are no improvements my friend would get a written warning. 

A meeting was scheduled, my friend went to the meeting, but none of the people who were suppose to attend attended. 

My friend is at their wits end, and struggling with the vague requirement of "improve managment" without being told what specifics need to be imroved. My friend feels that she is treated unfairly. She feels like she is looking for a needle within a hay stack, and that those who are putting her under pressure are not really that supportive of her, in that they are not telling her what exactly needs to be improved.  She feels like that she is being blamed for the faults of some stakeholders from different department who are giving her incorrect information..

Would anyone have experienced something like this and come out the other end. My friend has gotten legal advice, and the solicitor told her, the company are following proccedure, however my friend can initiate a "grevance proceedure". However my friend got advice on this (as they were about to start) and they were told, that by starting the grievance proceedure she will get a number of senior people back up and most definatly put a nail in her coffin...

Any advice I can pass on would be appreciated...

P..


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## callybags (26 Jul 2010)

I would suggest your friend commences the grievance procedure regardless of getting people's backs up.

It should bring things to a head one way or the other. She needs to get this sorted.

If it results in her being forced out or having to leave because of stress, then she should have a good case for unfair / constructed dismissal.

The sooner it is sorted the better.


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## Neg Covenant (26 Jul 2010)

Your friend should also go to see a doctor straight away so he can note her stress symptoms. Also, stress is real and your health is your wealth.   If senior management will not listen to her or address her concerns then she may as well prepare for the legal route.

Also, the part about failings not being properly identified and relevant people not turning up at the meeting is very important. It may well be time to send in a shot across the bows in the shape of a solicitors letter.  Whereas the company might appear to be following procedures in correspondence, most people who are stitching somebody up do not have the brains or patience to act fairly and usually trip themselves up.

If she is being stitched up by other people they will want to avoid the meetings because it will open them up to cross-examination in subsequent proceedings. This means they have entrusted it to other people who may well make a mess of it. This kind of quasi-political subterfuge is common in big organisations. 

If your friend is not willing to get tough and threaten to go legal then your friend might be well advised to talk to a union or the labour relations commission. There is a voluntary mediation system that she could propose to the company. That would not be an overly aggressive move as it is non-binding.   Also, the company would look bad refusing it.

Your friend needs proper legal advice though.


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## pinkyBear (26 Jul 2010)

hi there,
Neg, many thanks for your comments, unfortunatly there is no union involved. My friend is currently documenting everything, no shows at meetings etc. She does have a solicitor and gets occasional advice, at the minute though it is so tough and she is going through a whirlpool of emotions and despair..

Has anyone come out of a difficult scenario like this, with their sanity intact..
Cheers,
P..


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## Mrmr (26 Jul 2010)

If she is reponsible for managing others in a project capacity she needs to have a clearly defined Plan with timeframes and an escalation path.
I suggest she start writing an Risk Mgmt escalation plan and circulates this, so she can document where events are not proceeding to plan.
She needs to have backup plans and written evidence of her handling of issues if she's being brought down by others.


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## pinkyBear (26 Jul 2010)

Hi there, cheers for that Mrmr, I'll make those suggestions alright. 

Cheers for the help..
P..


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## Mpsox (26 Jul 2010)

Standard approach for a major project management in the organisation I work for would be for the PM to send out a weekly update/status report to relevant parties/sponsers. If your friend is not doing that now, then she should be doing so. I suggest she does one in draft firstly, circulate it for comments and views and then go on from there. 

In terms of the meeting with HR, it would be unusual for HR to get involved at this stage if it is simply a case of a project being badly managed. There may be something else behind this. Somebody somewhere must be unhappy with her performance (whether that is justified or not is another story). She could try turning things around and email her line manager and HR and ask them for feedback as to what she could do to improve her performance.

Your friend should also realise that the criticism may be justifed, and just that because she may perceive herself as doing a good job, that may not be the case. If there are stakeholders giving her wrong information, then what is she doing about it? She needs to get off her backside and go and get that information and she needs to make sure that the people applying the pressure, know where the fault is and what she is doing to rectify it. 
If she is still not getting the information, fine, then it's time for escalation and she should go to her bosses and say, here's where we are, this is the issue, here are the actions I've taken and I now need your support to resolve the problem. Communication is a key role in any project managers job description.

Based on the OPs posts, it's far too early to be thinking solicitor at this stage.


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## pinkyBear (26 Jul 2010)

hi there,
Mpsox and mrmr, I am meeting with my friend this pm, as I have been trying to help her out over the past few weeks and your suggestions are brilliant.

OK, she holds weekly and fortnightly meetings, the outcome of these feed into one monthly meeting. I sugessted she get clarification on what areas need improvment regards to her managment, and she got feedback today, I went looking up risk managment plans and we are meeting tonight to try and put one in place.

I have suggested she use the example validating input recieved from stakeholders.

Cheers for the help guys... The suggestions are really helpful and practicle..
P..


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## Mrmr (27 Jul 2010)

Mpsox fleshed it out better than I did, only had a few mins 
Basically she needs good timeframed result/milestone based project plans supported by meetings, minutes, communications and feedback. She also needs to have Risk Management plans in place from the outset.

Through these she should be able to track the progress of her work as PM and the project as a whole. Where it is not proceeding as planned she will be able to document this from as early as possible. As previously suggested she can then review in line with an escalation path.

Can I just ask has she any specific PM training if it is a PM based role?
Perhaps she could add this to her plan as a Key suggestion, if needed?


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## partnership (27 Jul 2010)

In relation to the original question of leaving the job she would be barred from getting jobseekers benefit for 9 weeks because she left of her own accord.  Leaving and claiming constructive dismissal is a very difficult thing to do particularly without union advice/involvement.
If Hr have raised the issue of performance she is entitled to know exactly what she is doing wrong and what she needs to do to correct it - ie training may be required.
If she is following the tips above on project management and is taking notes that is good.  However she could also work on her own communication skills in relation to how to ask things from HR etc.  There are a few good books on this which may useful - I will have a look and post the names of the books.  She may also consider getting help does the company have an employee assistance programme that she could access on a confidential basis?  Or she could see if she can get access to conflict coaching to help her through.


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## Welfarite (28 Jul 2010)

partnership said:


> In relation to the original question of leaving the job she would be barred from getting jobseekers benefit for 9 weeks because she left of her own accord.


It is not definite that she will be disqualified for 9 weeks. The operative term is leving without 'good cause', not leaving of your own accord.


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## pinkyBear (28 Jul 2010)

hi there,
In terms of my friend not having done a PM course, no and none was ever offered. She is very new to looking after a project like this, and the project is also new to the company. It appears from my understanding that she is implementing some new process, that management belive will solve everyones problems. She is holding meetings and reviews (weekly) , however because managment are not seeing the results they expect..


Cheers P..


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## Mrmr (28 Jul 2010)

Hi Pinkybear,

I think she needs to be pro-active do two specific things at this stage.

First, if she hasn't already, go sit with each of the mgmt team and define solid results they expect 'to solve their problems'. That by itself is too vague. These should be very very specific- like 100% staff training in new process, the operational improvements they expect to see- like 10% reduction in month end costs due to reduced x/ improved y. She needs very solid results to aim for and achieve.
Secondly, a good PM course will give her some great general skills- have a look at the different educational institutes and you should find some, but that's a longer improvement.


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## pinkyBear (28 Jul 2010)

Hi Mrmr, 

Cheers, from what I understand, her biggest problem is because this is a new process various members of managment want different things out of the process, they tell her what they want, she reserches it. In some cases what they want cant be gotten from the data, she presents the findings and managment are not happy.

I think because this is a new process for all, there are those with really high expectations, and because my friend does not have the breath of experience in implenting this field she is being put under pressure...


Cheers Mrmr, you guys have been great with the advice and I have passed on everything...


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## sadie (28 Jul 2010)

If this project is so important to the company, why have they put an unexperienced person into the position?

The company has an obligation to treat her fairly. 
They hired her, and made her permanent. 
If they are giving her work out of her depth, knowing full well she has not got the training or expertise to carry out the work, then that could be considered bullying. 
If she is just not suited to the work, and has been changed to a new type of work, then that's not her fault either. 

They need to provide her with a complete set of expectations in relation to the issues with her performance. 
They cannot fire her unless they have provided her with an explicit performance plan, give her a fair amount of time to address this. They would only dismiss her then if they can demonstrate (using dates and examples) of where her performance does not match expectations. 

It is in fact, extremely difficult to get rid of a permanent employee unless you make the position redundant.

It sounds like the project is going pear shaped and they are looking for someone to point the finger at. 
So the finger needs to be pointed right back at them. As someone says they need to get a shot across the bow that she's not going to be pushed around.  

Unfortunately people in her situation are at their weakest point and find it hard to muster the strength to fight the thing logically, as it all becomes emotional and their confidence is so undermined. And they are afraid they'll be branded as failures and weak employees within the company. 

She should see the GP about stress.
Make it known to HR she has is having difficulties with stress. 
The company have an obligation to look after her health in relation to the work they ask her to do.

Will the project be going away in the future? Could someone else be assigned to assist her on it? Is there other work she could be moved to? 

Above all, she should not resign without a fuss. 

Are they possibly trying to 'manage' her out because they don't like her attitude - or is it just a Nightmare Project going drastically wrong and leaving her carrying the can works best for her Manager. Where is her Manager in all this? I don't hear anything about her/him. Every Manager is ultimately responsible for the end result of his/her employee. 

Does the company do Annual Reviews? What are her previous Reviews been like? They can't just come along and cite poor performance now when it suits them, when previous performance has been deemed satisfactory.


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## pinkyBear (28 Jul 2010)

Hi there Sadie, previous revirew to my knowlege very good (she was getting very good bonues - due to her performance).

It is my feeling, that this is a new project to the firm, and this new process is meant to "solve all our woes!", however it obviously hasn't.

I have also advised my friend to note meeting attendances and dodgy emails (which she has been getting), and to be assertive in her responce... Also to make it clear she is not the only owner of this...

Cheers,
P..


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## Mrmr (28 Jul 2010)

It would also be interested to know who/ what process defined this as the 'solution'? 
Did they do some sort of evaluation- and what method?
Or was this all based on management gut feeling or 'obvious' solution?
Were there other alternative solutions which might have worked better?
Just something else to think about  Hope she gets sorted...


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## Claire1956 (28 Jul 2010)

Mrmr and Mpsox gave great advice. However it sounds as though everyone at the table may be new to PMgmt.

Suggest that your friend looks for a *feasibility document* that actually states the requirements of the project.........it reads to me that someone in management was 'sold' a solution and told to get someone on the staff to deliver it. If that is the case your friend will end up being the fall guy for the project not being implemented. She seriously needs to get herself into HR/Line Manager and clearly articulate that she doesn't have the skills for the role if the above is beyond her reach.

Did she seek the role??? I've seen many many PMs hit the dirt and shed lots of tears because this stage of the project (feasibility and defining the project scope) was not actioned properly, myself included.


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## pinkyBear (3 Aug 2010)

Hi Claire, I think you have hit the nail on the head here. My friend did not seek the role out as such, she was given this project to implement (along with doing her own work).. From what I can make out, she holds weekly and monthly meetings. My understanding is, in the weekly meetings she gets managment to tell her what they want from certain figures. 
She gooes off, does the analysis, in some cases what managment want cannot be done. And this is where she is beeing hammered, she meets managment monthly - gives some detailed analysis, and explains what she could do and not do... No one is happy, and more pressure is piled on her....


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## pinkyBear (12 Nov 2010)

Hi all, I would just like to give an update as to what is going on. My friend was told earlier in the year that she had 2 months to improve the area she worked on. She did her presentation and from what I know they were relatively happy. This performance review involved HR, and there would be 3 outcomes:

1) No improvement - disciplinary procedure starts.
2) An improvement - all ok, life would go back to normal..
3) A huge improvement - all OK.. life would go back to normal..


After the meeting, my friend was informed that the company could see a lot of improvements in the area, there was no disciplinary proceedings. However she noticed, that things were not going back to normal. She was still not allowed manage her original area, her focus was to continue on this project. 

She was called into a meeting on Monday, and told that they would like her to offer her resignation. If she doesn't they will start disciplinary proceedings.. 
mmmhhh


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## Complainer (12 Nov 2010)

She needs a solicitor. She's probably going to lose her job - it's now down to what exit package can be negotiated.


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