# Small Accident - Advice Required



## quarterfloun (11 Oct 2005)

I fell down a hole in the road that was left there for years by the ESB. There was a loose piece of plywood covering it and as I walked into the street from my avenue, where the board had moved, I slipped into it and sprained my ankle.

Financially this has cost me a doctors visit and medication in addition to a weeks discomfort - I still went to work.

Is there any point in making a claim to cover this or should I cut my losses and be thankful I did not break anything?


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## ubiquitous (11 Oct 2005)

The latter. Frankly it is not worth suing anyone for the cost of a doctors visit & some medication. It would be difficult for a court or indeed an insurer to deduce that you were in serious discomfort or pain if you were well enough to go to work following the accident.


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## z107 (11 Oct 2005)

At least inform the ESB so that someone else doesn't fall down the hole, maybe with worse injuries. They might give you a goodie bag.


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## ClubMan (11 Oct 2005)

I doubt that it would be worth taking a claim in this case if your injuries and the concomitant costs were relatively minor. After all, if your claim failed then you could easily end up out of pocket with legal costs etc. Solicitors may offer "no foal no fee" personal injury claim services but this does not necessarily mean that a failed claim leaves you with no costs to pay!


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## quarterfloun (11 Oct 2005)

In response to [broken link removed] the reason why I posted this was because of the fact it took from the 19th September to the 11th October for a response! They jogged my memory of a past event by sending me an email today and only because I thought that this was a poor response in terms of public safety did I think of rattling their cage by considering a legal wake up call. 

My response to the ESB FWIW: 
Thank you for your timely response. Fortunately I had the good sense to be more proactive in this matter than the ESB and having had no response to my initial email within 48 hours I resent my email with an attached photograph and enjoyed a more speedy response.



The local man from the ESB called me; I went through the issue with him and that evening upon returning home I found a workman in the final stages of concreting over the hole. The hole is now covered over with a layer of concrete and seems safe.


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## z107 (11 Oct 2005)

It's almost like they're doing you a favour or something. (ESB aren't privatised yet, are they?)


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## quarterfloun (11 Oct 2005)

Well I've spent 20 years in England and privatising the utilities has made some sweeping changes for the better. Now I think that the outmoded work practises are removed nationalisation would be the way to go in terms of infrastructure. It's a shame we cannot buy collectively from the producers rather than the middle man who adds no value.


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## ribena (12 Oct 2005)

Hi Quarterfloun.  I know how you feel.  I fell off a badly laid footpath 2 weeks and badly sprained my ankle.  I was in terrible pain but thankfully I'm slowly improving now.  Apparently a sprain can be more painful than a break.  I don't know if you can make any claim for a sprain but I'll be working on it here in work and will let you know.  Why don't you ring a Solicitor and ask them for advise over the phone.


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## quarterfloun (13 Oct 2005)

I'm not too bothered about a claim in terms of money but the fact that this hole was there for at least 2 years if not more was covered by a loose piece of chipboard. As traffic went over it (only recently since my return) has the wood been moving unbeknown to me.After my mishap I spoke to the local  "curtain twitcher / neighbourhood watch superhero) who told me that he had reported it to the ESB several times.
I still get an occasional twinge but nothing longlasting I hope.
Regarding the solicitor - well IMHO - they will probably charge more just to tell me that its not worth pursuing than I would get if I claimed! In England we had the CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) - only used it once in 20 years but an excellent service for those who need advice.
Anyway - let me know how you get on and if the advice is positive then I'll rethink the matter.
QF


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## ubiquitous (13 Oct 2005)

> In England we had the CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) - only used it once in 20 years but an excellent service for those who need advice.



There are Citizens Information Centres in most Irish urban centres.


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## Vanilla (13 Oct 2005)

Also FLAC- free legal advice centres, run on a voluntary basis by local solicitors in most large towns, and indeed the Free Legal Aid Board, for those who cannot pay, run by the government in relation to criminal and family law matters mainly, but they will also deal with other matters on a case by case basis- again there is a Legal Aid Centre in most large towns throughout the country.


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## 90210 (13 Oct 2005)

STOP ......You no longer go through a solicitor for personal injury or claims arising from same, check out www.piab.ie/



This is the personal injuries assessment board, they will guide you through what you need to do. In relation to dropping your claim for you’re out of pocket expenses you are being quite foolish, why should you have to pay for an injury, which was the causation of another. But to recover your out of pocket fees should be enough unless you are genuinely, genuinely still in pain, which seems not to be the case.


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## Vanilla (13 Oct 2005)

> You can deal directly with PIAB and there are no legal costs involved. Alternatively, you may choose to engage an agent (e.g. a solicitor) at your own expense.
> 
> Whether you deal directly with PIAB or choose to engage an agent the award levels will be the same.




The above is a quote from the PIAB website. However recently a survey was done of claims finalised by PIAB where the claimant was represented, and where they were not. The findings appeared to support an argument that those who were represented by solicitors fared significantly better than those who were not. Unfortunately I cannot find a link at this time to that survey, perhaps another legal contributor might be able to help.


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## ribena (13 Oct 2005)

It is a matter of principal that I'd put in my claim rather than the principle sum you'd receive.  The roads where I work are treacherous and plenty of people have had trip & fall accidents.  Plenty of elderly people have had serious accidents and it's not good enough.  The County Council should wake up and lay safe footpaths for all and sundry.  In quarterfloun's case, it is disgraceful that a hole should be left in the road like that.  I would definitely pursue it out of principal.  You will find a lot of solicitors will offer adivce over the phone.  You won't get charged for that.  Where roughly in the country are you??  I would also opt for that rather than going directly through PIAB yourself.  Your solicitor will correspond with PIAB for you.


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## ClubMan (13 Oct 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> There are Citizens Information Centres in most Irish urban centres.


See .


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## ubiquitous (13 Oct 2005)

> I would definitely pursue it out of principal.


Even if there is a risk (where there clearly is in this case) of ending up with little or no compensation and being found liable for legal costs of your own advisors or the other side? Even where an hour's work by a solicitor would cost more than the max. €100 cost incurred in visiting the doctor and getting some minor medication? Even where the question of contributory negligence would be bound to arise, (the original poster said that the hole had been there for years, was therefore aware of the hazard before the accident happened, and technically should have taken care to avoid it) and where there may be confusion as to who exactly is responsible for the hazard in the first place (esb or council)?



> You will find a lot of solicitors will offer adivce over the phone. You won't get charged for that.


How can you be sure of that?


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## quarterfloun (13 Oct 2005)

I was aware of a covered over hazard not a hazard that had been uncovered. As to being aware of it at the time...I was looking into the road to ensure that I was not going to get run over by a passing car. Where my avenue ends the road begins and the hole is actually at the side of the road and also is in front of my property. To be fair the avenue is wide and it's oly just in front of my property but technically, were they to put a pole in this hole, they would be narrowing my entrance. There is no footpath so you can see the position. I do not see why I should be out of pocket at all....I'm not after a monster payout and I'm happy to donate any "winnings" to charity but why should I lose out?

I am in the South East.


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## ClubMan (13 Oct 2005)

quarterfloun said:
			
		

> I do not see why I should be out of pocket at all....


Because accidents happen - that's life?


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## ubiquitous (13 Oct 2005)

Hi qf

Do bear in mind that I'm not necessarily trying to pick holes in your case, although I suspect you probably have better things to do with your life than pursue a case for less than €100 in doctors bills and medication costs. 

Because the amount of your loss is so small, (and the extent of your injury wasn't sufficiently serious to prevent you from working in the meantime), nobody is likely to take your claim seriously, least of all the ESB or the local authority, both of whom are presumably well-experienced in dealing with compensation claims and are highly unlikely to entertain any such claim (genuine or otherwise) unless supported by elaborate and professionally verified evidence. 

You will not be able to even begin gathering this evidence without spending sums far in excess of what you have spent already in doctors fees & medication.

There is zero chance of either the ESB or the local authority readily agreeing to settle your claim without this evidence for fear of a rash of copycat claims and the (albeit remote) possibility of your claim being a "trojan horse" for a more subsequent larger claim.



> ...but why should I lose out?



Just because an accident happens doesn't automatically mean that someone else is to blame or that someone else should have to pay for the resulting costs.


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## Observer (14 Oct 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Because accidents happen - that's life?


`
Accidents don't "happen"; they are caused.  In this case by ESB's shoddy and negligent repair work.  This was brought to their attention and they chose to ignore it.  By disregarding the reports from the local "curtain-twitcher, they have compounded their liability.  You are entitled, legally and morally, to sue.  You are unquestionably entitled to recover the cost of medical treatment and medication.  You have also suffered a few weeks of mild to moderate pain, discomfort and, presumably, restricted mobility.  What would be fair compensation?  The cost of a night out?  A weekend away?  Two weeks holiday?  The court will decide.  Sue.


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## ClubMan (14 Oct 2005)

I think that advising somebody to sue in such a relatively minor case is not good advice. The chances of them ending up out of pocket are significant. Better to put complaints over the matter in writing to the company involved and they may make some sort of discretionary goodwill gesture.


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## Vanilla (14 Oct 2005)

I'd be inclined to agree with previous sentiments that such minor matters should be chalked up to experience. Many large companies would not make a goodwill gesture on the basis that it might be seen as an admission of liability.
The only doubt that I would have is that you should wait a certain period of time to ensure that your injury was just a minor one and is resolved. In personal injury actions medical advice would tend to be to wait a while to ensure that there are no nasty surprises lurking and that in a few months time you don't find this injury playing up. That said, if you were going to make a claim there are very strict statutory limits on such claims now, so talk either to PIAB or your solicitor in relation to same.

I would also have my doubts on the wisdom and possibility of receiving ( free or otherwise) legal advice over the phone, but each to their own.


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## Carpenter (14 Oct 2005)

In relation to discretionary goodwill gestures, my mother slipped on a food/ drink spillage in a city centre Dunnes Stores outlet a few years ago.  The spillage was not mopped up and no warning signs were posted.  She sustained serious bruising at the time and subsequently wrote a letter of complaint to the store (foolishly she left the store at the time of the incident without making a representation to the manager).  The letter was ignored and I believe this is probably unofficial company policy with many stores as any "goodwill gesture" could surely be construed as an admission of liability and negligence and would be prejudicial in any future legal action.  I think i would take the view that if no serious harm was done chalk it up to experience, as already suggested.


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## ClubMan (14 Oct 2005)

OK - I didn't think the "goodwill gesture" through in terms of possible implications for admission of liability etc.


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## Vanilla (14 Oct 2005)

Yes, but some large companies DO make such gestures. I remember one large chain of retail outlets making what I thought was a very handsome gesture to a client a few years back, although the client had a fairly serious injury and ended up suing anyway. I was impressed though.

Although I wonder what the ESB could do? Voucher for next bill?


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## quarterfloun (14 Oct 2005)

OK,

Here is what I've decided. Im going to write to the ESB and I'm going to ask them for a gesture of good will in the form of a donation to Greenpeace (or similar if anybody has a more pertinent  charity in mind) and in return I'll waive any future rights to sue them.
Perhaps €100 would suffice.

Thanks as always


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## DrMoriarty (14 Oct 2005)

Admirable gesture! Do let us know what fate it meets...


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## oysterman (14 Oct 2005)

quarterfloun said:
			
		

> OK,
> 
> Here is what I've decided. Im going to write to the ESB and I'm going to ask them for a gesture of good will in the form of a donation to Greenpeace


ESB sends money to Greenpeace? Now I would certainly pay to see a copy of that cheque......


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## quarterfloun (17 Oct 2005)

my point entirely


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