# Replacing heating controls - any advice



## corkgal (14 Aug 2009)

I am going to take advantage of the SEI grant and get my heating controls upgraded.

I just want to get an idea of whats possible so I can discuss it with the heating guy.

I want a 7 day programmer and a new thermostat. 
I'd like to have the heating zoned so that I can turn on the downstairs and not upstairs.
I want a boost function so I don't have to reset the thing for a quick reheat.
I want the water to heat from the gas in the summer without turning levers.
I'd like time and heat controls, i.e. 7pm heat to 20 degrees, 11pm heat to 18 degrees etc

I think the system is not plumbed for zones so we might have to skip that.
We have thermostatic valves upstairs, might get them all round.

Anything else available?


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## DGOBS (16 Aug 2009)

SEI grant will not cover JUST more thermostatic valves on your rads.
Zoning and time and temperature control are required (boiler interlock)


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## DavyJones (16 Aug 2009)

You will also need a timeclock fitted on your immersion switch.

"I'd like time and heat controls, i.e. 7pm heat to 20 degrees, 11pm heat to 18 degrees etc"

Programmable room stats are above the scope of the SEI requirement, but are still a good idea, will cost you alot more though.


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## Sconhome (16 Aug 2009)

Depending on your existing system you may or may not be able to split the system into different heatign zones.
Many standard systems are split into 2 - hot water and heating . If you are lucky you will have your heating zones split in 2 giving you upstairs and downstairs.

All zones will be governed by motorised valves which are wired back to a programmable time clock with all the functionality you have indicated above


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## corkgal (16 Aug 2009)

Thanks for the replies, I have a timeclock on the immersion, thats very handy.
I have a bad feeling that my system will not be easy to upgrade, there are no zones at present, only one thermostat, you have to pull the levers to turn off the rads in the summer to just have hot water..
Hopefully I will be proven wrong.
Upstairs already has thermostatic valves so maybe motorised valves to control 2 zones might work in series with those and provide the control I need.

House is only 10 years old, I wonder why they do not put in better heating controls when building.

I'd be willing to pay above the SEI rates, I have a new baby and we need the house controlled properly this winter. I reckon we will save money too, as the house is often far too hot. We don't use half the rooms in the evening either.
I'll see what yer man says when he comes to analyze!


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## DGOBS (16 Aug 2009)

Done correctly you could reduce you heating cost by up to 30%
(you really should go the whole hog a spring for the class a boiler too)
SEI will grant up to €700 towards both


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## Sconhome (17 Aug 2009)

Corkgal to be perfectly clear, and a lot of people are under the belief that SEI grants cover the cost of the upgrades. The SEI grant is worth approximately 25-30% of the actual cost of the individual upgrades.

If you have a summer / winter valve you will be able to install a motorised valve here which will isolate your hot water from the heating, allowing you to call up either or both as you require. You can then do away with the electric immersion and retain it for emergency back up rather than relying on it for hot water.


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## corkgal (17 Aug 2009)

Anyone know how big this hardware is? Previous owners built a kitchen press around the boiler, we already had to dismantle it once to fix the boiler, don't think it will stand another dismantling!! SEI sure won't cover new kitchen presses!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd LOVE to rip the whole thing out and start again, there are lots of issues with it, including the addition of an extra rad when the house was extended ( again previous owner), thermostat in room directly adjoining conservatory and an inaccessible boiler.

Are those boilers which heat the water instantaneously so you don't need a hot water tank any good?

I'll let you know what the heating guy says, he is coming today.


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## davidoco (17 Aug 2009)

corkgal said:


> I have a bad feeling that my system will not be easy to upgrade, there are no zones at present, only one thermostat, you have to pull the levers to turn off the rads in the summer to just have hot water..


 

Use CM-Zone where problems with access to pipe work is an issue when zoning.


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## corkgal (17 Aug 2009)

Guy says its do-able, now just have to wait for a quote!!
Thanks for the help


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## bogota400 (17 Aug 2009)

@Corkgal:  Will be interesting to see how you get on re. price.
I pursued this a few months back and got what I thought was an outrageous price for what seemed like a very straightforward upgrade.
@Davidoco:  Do you know if its possible to use that kit to control two zones without direct access to the valves?  I have effectively a 3 zone system already (ie. seperate switch for upstairs rads and downstairs rads - with both switched off, can still get cylinder water heated).  The builders have put the downstairs valve god knows where (we think its stuck behind a plasterboard wall) so cant access it directly.  If I wanted to use this kit for temp. control, is it possible to do somehow using the wiring thats running into the old style analog heating timer??


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## DavyJones (17 Aug 2009)

corkgal said:


> Guy says its do-able, now just have to wait for a quote!!
> Thanks for the help



Most of the ones we have done come in at under 3K inc VAT.




bogota400 said:


> @Corkgal:  Will be interesting to see how you get on re. price.
> I pursued this a few months back and got what I thought was an outrageous price for what seemed like a very straightforward upgrade.
> @Davidoco:  Do you know if its possible to use that kit to control two zones without direct access to the valves?  I have effectively a 3 zone system already (ie. seperate switch for upstairs rads and downstairs rads - with both switched off, can still get cylinder water heated).  The builders have put the downstairs valve god knows where (we think its stuck behind a plasterboard wall) so cant access it directly.  If I wanted to use this kit for temp. control, is it possible to do somehow using the wiring thats running into the old style analog heating timer??



You will need to get access to those valves, because they will fail in time. Get an access panel fitted.

Alot of the old wiring will do for the new installation.


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## bogota400 (17 Aug 2009)

DavyJones said:


> You will need to get access to those valves because they will fail in time. Get an access panel fitted.


  Yes, have been made aware of this and its pretty frustrating.  Its a new (relatively..as in 3 years old) house - can't believe that a plumber would put it in such an inaccessible place. The access door will have to go in my front room - not only is it extra expense but that aside, I'd prefer not to have it there.


DavyJones said:


> A lot of the old wiring will do for the new installation.


  Aside from the valves failing at some stage, do I need access to them right now in order for CM-zone kit to work?  I know its not what most people would do but I am prepared to deal with a failed valve when the time comes (I appreciate that it could be in the depths of winter but don't want the extra bills right now).


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## BarneyMc (19 Aug 2009)

Sconhome said:


> Corkgal to be perfectly clear, and a lot of people are under the belief that SEI grants cover the cost of the upgrades. The SEI grant is worth approximately 25-30% of the actual cost of the individual upgrades.


 
Surely that depends on how much the upgrade costs? Does a €500 grant towards heating control upgrade not mean they will cover all cost up to this limit?


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## corkgal (19 Aug 2009)

I am expecting 1500 with SEI covering the 500 part, might get the quote tomorrow.


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## Sconhome (19 Aug 2009)

Most upgrades for a gas A rated boiler with the heating controls required to qualify for the SEI grant will cost in the region of €1800 to €2500.

Boiler and controls will be approx €1000-€1500 with roughly a €1000 being charged for labour and incidentals by the RGI plumber who has to test & certify the installation of the boiler on completion. They should also register the boiler with Bord Gais and notify SEI.


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## DGOBS (19 Aug 2009)

Why would you register a boiler with BG?

They MUST issue a cert of conformance for the new boiler, to the customer and to RGII


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## davidoco (19 Aug 2009)

bogota400 said:


> Aside from the valves failing at some stage, do I need access to them right now in order for CM-zone kit to work?  I know its not what most people would do but I am prepared to deal with a failed valve when the time comes (I appreciate that it could be in the depths of winter but don't want the extra bills right now).



You do not need to access the valve hidden but risk of it failing may increase due to fact that power will need to be supplied to it full time (to keep it open)  for CM Zone to work effectively.  If I was in your situation I would access the valve and put it into manually open and then reseal your wall.  Try and work without that valve or locate it in a more accessible location.

Before you get too excited about CM Zone have a look at prices here.


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## AlbacoreA (20 Aug 2009)

From reading it seems you have to grant approval before getting the work done. Correct?


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## corkgal (20 Aug 2009)

Not getting a new boiler, the old one is reasonably ok.


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## theresa1 (20 Aug 2009)

DGOBS said:


> Why would you register a boiler with BG?
> 
> They MUST issue a cert of conformance for the new boiler, to the customer and to RGII


 


- Is this only since June 2009?


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## corkgal (20 Aug 2009)

Quote came for 1000. I assume this does not include the SEI bit.

Very happy, looking forward to a cosy winter!


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## corkgal (24 Sep 2009)

Its done now and its great. I love the new programmer!

Just waiting for the SEI money to come rolling in!

We just got a nasty Electricity bill too, so hopefully these will be less now that the hot water is gas heated.


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## corkgal (18 Oct 2009)

Just an update.
Got the money back form SEI with 4 weeks.
The heating is massively improved. 
1. Water is being heated by gas, this should be much cheaper.
2. We turned down the temperature of the water, now its just hot enough to wash your hands, no more scalding immersion water.
3. The rads are hotter because only half of them ore on at a time (because of the zones).
4. Its so easy to put the heating or water on for a bit more with the boost button, no more reprogramming the heating for one night and ending up baked the next night. We have the heating set to come on at a lowish level and can boost it to be warmer with one touch.
5. House is warm, not alternating baking and freezing. 
6. Digital thermostats are very accurate, no more bobbing on and off for the boiler as the thermostat goes on and off.
7. Saving a fortune by only heating downstairs at this stage of the year. Upstairs just does not start getting cold until December.


Very happy customer. I'd recommend anyone to get this done.


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## Gtec (19 Oct 2009)

corkgal said:


> 2. We turned down the temperature of the water, now its just hot enough to wash your hands, no more scalding immersion water.



You should note doing this that if the water does not reach 60 deg C you run the risk of legionella growing in the Hot water tank. Really you should heat the tank to 60 and just set it for a short time each day.

As for the rest of your post I could not agree more, I am always amazed at the number of houses that have a simple on off heating system!

Gtec


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## yellowrebel (27 Feb 2010)

just wondering how you got on with the job, I found it difficult to get an sei contractor to price the job as all of the work was electrical, my house is only 5 years old and is set up for boiler control change. cork city


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