# Bank black list



## roker (28 Apr 2005)

Banks have credit reference agencies they use against us , is it not time that the consumer has a bank reference list?

It would be great if we could set up a table and count the complaint against each bank. we could then count the total and see which one comes out best.

Any ideas how we can go about this on this forum?


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## extopia (29 Apr 2005)

I think there's a site somewhere doing this already, but can't remember where it is. Something that was set up in the aftermath of an AIB overcharging scandal. Perhaps someone else can remember,

Having said that there's an awful lot of info about the banks here on AAM too.


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## ClubMan (29 Apr 2005)

roker said:
			
		

> Banks have credit reference agencies they use against us , is it not time that the consumer has a bank reference list?



What credit reference agencies are you talking about? I'm not aware of any credit reference/scoring agencies operating in the Irish market and the collates credit histories/records and not references/scores. Any inferences about credit worthiness drawn from the ICB records are done by the individual institutions themselves.



> It would be great if we could set up a table and count the complaint against each bank. we could then count the total and see which one comes out best.



Why would this be great? As a bank shareholder (through my indirect equity pension and other investments) I would expect these institutions to balance business growth with prudential lending strategies and avoid lending to unacceptably risky borrowers. As a bank customer I certainly don't want to be paying extra to cover borrowers who default.


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## RainyDay (29 Apr 2005)

How could we ensure the accuracy of such a list? How could we prevent competitors entering spurious complaints?


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## CCOVICH (29 Apr 2005)

extopia said:
			
		

> I think there's a site somewhere doing this already, but can't remember where it is. Something that was set up in the aftermath of an AIB overcharging scandal. Perhaps someone else can remember,
> 
> Having said that there's an awful lot of info about the banks here on AAM too.


 
I think you might be talking about [broken link removed]. I don't think it has anywhere near the number of users and threads as the financial forum of AAM, and as far as I remember, some of the complaints/posts were fairly petty.


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## olddog (29 Apr 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> ...... I'm not aware of any credit reference/scoring agencies operating in the Irish market ......



 ?


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## CCOVICH (29 Apr 2005)

Dun and Bradstreet are a service that provides information on businesses rather than individuals.


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## ClubMan (29 Apr 2005)

I heard talk a while back of one of the _UK_ personal/individual credit rating/scoring operations entering the Irish market but I'm not aware of anything happening since and don't believe that there is any such company operating here right now.


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## olddog (29 Apr 2005)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> Dun and Bradstreet are a service that provides information on businesses rather than individuals.



Yes. Isnt this a topic of interest to businesses too ?

Oh, and what are that offshoot of Great Universal Stores at ?

http://www.experian.ie/


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## daveco23 (29 Apr 2005)

Experien has set up a consumer credit Bureau in Ireland - not sure whaich institutions use it though.. They are exactly like ICB insofar as the provide the data and the bank makes the decision on their creditworthiness.


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## ClubMan (29 Apr 2005)

I stand corrected so. I wasn't aware that _Experian _had set up here.


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## roker (30 Apr 2005)

Even if I open up a credit card account I must sign to say that my information can be passed on to other credit reference agencies (read the small print)

As a consumer I need fair play, it is presently one sided. The bank can use all sorts devious practices like sticking on extra insurance without telling you, to get commission. 
Clubman
A share holder of a company should be ashamed to  admit that their company is using subterfuge to get money out of customers.


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## ClubMan (30 Apr 2005)

roker said:
			
		

> Even if I open up a credit card account I must sign to say that my information can be passed on to other credit reference agencies (read the small print)




What "other credit reference agencies"? If something is stated in the small print/terms & conditions then it's hardly subterfuge (see below) or in any way underhand. If customers fail to apprise themselves of these terms & conditions when signing an agreement then that's their own problem.
 
 


> As a consumer I need fair play, it is presently one sided. The bank can use all sorts devious practices like sticking on extra insurance without telling you, to get commission.





> Clubman
> A share holder of a company should be ashamed to  admit that their company is using subterfuge to get money out of customers.




What subterfuge and what admission? I was talking specifically about banks adopting a prudent approach to lending and not taking on unacceptably risky borrowers. I don't see how anybody could object to this. Failing to adopt such a prudent approach to lending would be to the detriment of shareholders and other customers who will be left to foot the bill. I never admitted anything about subterfuge or condoned underhand ways of making money. The least you could do is read my posts carefully and base your responses on what I actually say rather than what you assume that I have said.


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## CCOVICH (30 Apr 2005)

Olddog, I don't dispute the fact that this topic  would be of interest to businesses, but I was under the impression that this forum is for individuals.


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## roker (30 Apr 2005)

Sorry about the confusion, I refused to take out a credit card because of the paragraph on reference agencies; which is the point, what reference agencies? This was clear but how many people study all the conditions in the small print

Banks are entiltled to make a profit, but not by using underhanded methods. I have personal experience of this last year. (By the way I have a clear credit history).

But we have got away from the point, about a blacklist for consumers and fair play


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## ClubMan (30 Apr 2005)

roker said:
			
		

> Sorry about the confusion, I refused to take out a credit card because of the paragraph on reference agencies; which is the point, what reference agencies?



I guess they mean _ICB _and perhaps any other reference/rating/scoring agencies that operate in the _Irish _market (_Experian_) or may do so in the future? If the terms & conditions of any agreement are not clear then it's open to the consumer to ask the insitition for clarification - preferably in writing. If they don't like the terms & conditions then they are free to look elsewhere for an alternative arrangement.



> This was clear but how many people study all the conditions in the small print



True but that's their problem and the institutions can hardly be blamed for people signing agreements without understanding the Ts&Cs.



> Banks are entiltled to make a profit, but not by using underhanded methods. I have personal experience of this last year. (By the way I have a clear credit history).



Maybe you can post details?



> But we have got away from the point, about a blacklist for consumers and fair play


Why not just take any legitimate/substantive complaints to _IFSRA_? Part of their remit is to protect consumers and ensure fair play in the banking sector. I don't see an overriding need for a blacklist of institutions. But if you think that such a list is needed why not start one up - e.g. an online bulletin board such as this dealing specifically with such complaints?


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## Unregistered (2 May 2005)

Can banks get information on credit without the permission of the customer?


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## Unregistered (2 May 2005)

How long does a bad credit stay on the credit reference records is it 5 years??


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## Unregistered (2 May 2005)

data is held for 6 years


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## ClubMan (2 May 2005)

> Can banks get information on credit without the permission of the customer?



Most, if not all, credit agreements will have a clause whereby the customer consents to the details of the agreement being passed onto the _ICB _and maybe other credit referencing agencies. As such it would be difficult to obtain credit without giving the lender the permission to pass this information on and making it available to other institutions.



> data is held for 6 years



_ICB _only store records for five years - see the link that I posted earlier. Who are you referring to when you say six years?


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## Unregistered (3 May 2005)

On looking though the links above it seems that if we do not check agencies to see if there is anything on us we could be totally screwed because I am sure most of the information held be these agencies are incorrect people move and people have same names and age through out europe.  Very worrying all that tracing of people.

Who is making money out of ii, not the people that owe money that for sure. the big organisation will are making sure that they will not loose??


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## ClubMan (3 May 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> On looking though the links above it seems that if we do not check agencies to see if there is anything on us we could be totally screwed because I am sure most of the information held be these agencies are incorrect people move and people have same names and age through out europe.


On what basis do you assume that most of the information held by the likes of _ICB _is incorrect? If an individual has reason to suspect that the information held about them by the _ICB _is incorrect then they can obtain their records for a fee of €6 and then contact the _ICB _to correct any information that turns out to be incorrect.



> Very worrying all that tracing of people.


What do you mean by tracing? The _ICB _only collate information that the consumer has consented to allow the financial institutions to pass on.



> Who is making money out of ii, not the people that owe money that for sure. the big organisation will are making sure that they will not loose??


Making money out of what precisely?


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## Unregistered (3 May 2005)

If a consumer want to find out what is held against their name does ICU give this information out free or is there a charge for it???  

I would be very surprise if this was a free service to the consumer.  With any organisation like this there is always a tracing arm ready to trace people.


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## ClubMan (3 May 2005)

_ICU_? I presume you mean _ICB _- unless your credit history is in intensive care? There is a €6 charge to access one's _ICB _credit records as outined in the _OASIS _link that I posted at the top of the thread. I still don't get your point about "tracing people". Perhaps you can clarify? Tracing makes it sound like there is something sinister involved when, in fact, the _ICB _only records information from institutions that the customer has agreed can be divulged.


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## Unregistered (4 May 2005)

Collecting agency will be on your tail if you owe money and that is where the tracing bit comes in?


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