# cancellation of Judgment Mortgage



## loulou117 (25 Feb 2013)

Would love some advice, JM against my property and the applicant is nolonger trading. I have written to the receiver and asked for assistance to remove the Judgement Mortgage as the applicant is nolonger trading and the applicant sold on my debt and the courts made an order this month state this judgment debt can nolonger be persued in the courts under the enforcment instalment orders and i've had no response.

I came across this and i would love some advice (section 21 and section 22) i have also email the landregistry regarding me personally applying to the authority stating my reasons why the JM is not a valid burden.

"Application to cancel entry of judgment mortage on grounds of invalidity"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0456.html


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## Time (25 Feb 2013)

Just go ahead and apply to the PRAI. If the JM holder does not respond it will be cancelled.


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

Ok i'm kind of back to square one.  The PRAI have contacted me and said, they can only cancel a JM with the appropiate forms needs and there duty is to lodge forms, inform owners, cancels/discharges jm.

Just wondering, who do i send my application to cancel JM on grounds of invalidity too?  I posted off a letter to cashflow receiver about 3 weeks ago and will not get back to me so looks like they are not willing to assist me.


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## Time (28 Feb 2013)

The PRAI are not very lay person friendly. You really do need a solicitor here as the area of law is very complex.

The way I sees it is as follows:

1. You lodge the forms with the PRAI.
2. They contact the JM owner and seek their observations and comments.
3. The PRAI make a decision.


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

Ok, i do agree with you, this is a complex area and i do have an apt on monday evening just for advice on this.

Time, do you think this form applies to me? 57B

*2.2. Discharge other than by owner of a Charge/Burden
*Any person having an interest in the burden or the property (most usually the registered owner of the Folio on which the Charge/Burden is registered or the successor in title to the registered owner when the Charge/Burden was originally registered) may apply on affidavit in LR Form 57B to have the burden cancelled. LR Form 57B will generally require suitable adaptation, alteration or modification as the circumstances of the case dictate.
No Stamp Duty is payable on such discharges.

The PRAI said to me today, regarding this form if this is not filled out correctly they will reject it.

But, i feel this form 57B or 57A applies to me under Rule 101.

I will print out both forms take with me on my appointment and ask for advice but i will forward either one in with my supporting evidence and see what they say.

Also, i have contacted the Law Society requesting who now hold southern cross solc. files are they appear to be nolonger in business and they were the lodging party.

I feel this will take time but i just need advice as to what is the appropiate form for me to complete.

thanks Time.


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## Kev (28 Feb 2013)

What is the supporting evidence will you be taking with you. Do you have transcripts from the court hearing where the judge advised you to have the judgement removed.  

Also, perhaps if you ask the land registry what form is appropriate to have completed for a  judgment removed from deeds, they should be able to advise you which one is correct one for your purpose.

You maybe able to see if your judgment is still registered on this site the site says it searches for the RoI district courts as well. 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/understand-judgments-fines/how-to-search-the-registers/


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

thanks kev, i will search that website.

I am hoping to go into the civil office on monday morning and ask for a copy of the order were the judge stated this debt cannot be persued through the courts again.  

Also, i did ask the land registry what document is appropriate for me to fill out and they gave me the title of the 3 documents needed to cancel a JM but beyond that they cannot advise me.

I will ask the solc on monday evening which form should i complete but i'm not sure if its thats straight forward.  Im in the process of trying to contact the solc.'s who have my file and who were responsible for lodging the affidavit.


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## Time (28 Feb 2013)

The solicitors that lodged the original application are the best placed to remove it.


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

would you believe it that they are nolonger in business so i have email the law society and asked them who now has their files so i can contact them.  As the reciever is not willing to help, i feel i need to approach it from the angle and also, see can i personally cancel this with the correct form and supported documents i.e. applicant nolonger trading, applicant assigned my debt to another creditor, applicant that was grant this based on a judgment decree, judge recently ordered this cannot be persued in the courts again.


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## Time (28 Feb 2013)

Has the judge actually cancelled the decree?


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

On the day, her words were "i will make an order that this debt cannot be enforced by instalment order through the courts again" then she said "this will not come back into the courts".   I need a copy of this order and also, i can only assume it means this particular judgment decree is cancelled? i will ask the clerk that on monday.

I am aware as already said, that this debt still exists, and i have issued a data protection on the creditor and awaiting the documents, in the meantime, i have a legal aid apt coming up in a couple of months as it appears the assignment is not correct and it appears this creditor was not legally entitled to collect this court instalment order, sorry not to go back in everything again.


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## Kev (28 Feb 2013)

Yes you will need a copy of that order and see what it actually says.


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## loulou117 (28 Feb 2013)

Right Kev, thats a good idea, wondering how long does it take to get the transcripts?

Also, she said, she will make an order.......  is this something i can also get a copy of from the clerk? i feel its this order that will be crucial as part of my supporting documentation for the land registry.


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## Time (28 Feb 2013)

You can get a copy of the order on paying a fee to the court office.


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2013)

loulou117 said:


> The PRAI said to me today, regarding this form if this is not filled out correctly they will reject it.
> 
> But, i feel this form 57B or 57A applies to me under Rule 101.
> 
> .


 
Don't worry too much if you fill out the form incorrectly. That's just them being civil servants. Of course you try and fill it out properly but if you get it wrong they will send it back to you, probably with a standard checklist ticking that which you've done incorrectly.  And then you fix that.  And if you cannot figure out which form is correct, fill out both and send both.  Let the civil servant decide which is the correct one.  

Also if you're finding it difficult with the PRAI to find out which documents they need, you can always telephone them on another day and talk to another person who might be more helpful.


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## Kev (1 Mar 2013)

He cannot do anything until he gets the order from the court and see what is on the order, then he will have to take it from thereon.

He should get all his documents/paperwork from the companies A and B under the freedom of information act in order to see what actually took place between them.  Also, he should try and get together all all the payments he made to company B and not rely on what company tells him, he need to have the tangible evidence.


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## loulou117 (1 Mar 2013)

Kev, i do have all the documents showing all payments made, i received back all this information from the debt collection agency under my request section 4 data protection.


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## Kev (2 Mar 2013)

loulou117 said:


> Kev, i do have all the documents showing all payments made, i received back all this information from the debt collection agency under my request section 4 data protection.



You will needed to see what they judge put on the order first and then take it from there.  

It is good that you got all the documents as it should tell you if company A used company B to collect the debt or was the debt sold to them.


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## Property11 (7 Mar 2022)

Time said:


> Just go ahead and apply to the PRAI. If the JM holder does not respond it will be cancelled.


How does one go about applying to have a judgement mortgage cancelled from registry of deeds which is different than normal property folios?
PRAI say  a deed of release is required from bank and we as property owners cannot apply to have it cancelled.  Is this correct?


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