# Father has worked for cash for 10years



## Zadien (30 Aug 2012)

Hey,

I’m wondering is anyone can shed some light on this very messy situation.

My father (Builder by trade) has worked for the last 10-12 years for cash, not one of those years went by where I didn’t try get him to start a legit business. Twice in that time I even arranged all the necessary forms.

As things stand now, he was just moved into my house (temporarily) after not being able to keep up with his rent. He always had some sort of work on the go but over the last year it’s slowed to a standstill. As far back as 3 years ago I was warning him he needed to get some sort of social welfare sorted for himself but it’s like talking to an inanimate carbon rod…I’m beyond frustrated.

He is a financial disaster zone, I am nothing like the man thankfully.

I ask you people, what are his options as things stand?

Is there any hope he’d qualify for welfare, failing that, what would happen if he applied for a job and suddenly popped back up on the tax radar.

I am willing to coach him through what he needs to do but whatever it is he needs to do it fast because I’ll be kicking him out of my house after Xmas.

Cheers.


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## coolhandluke (30 Aug 2012)

Where has all the money gone ? Did he have any insurance/vat no. etc in all them years ?


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## Purple (30 Aug 2012)

Sorry, but it's hard to have sympathy for a man who stole tens of thousands from his neighbours over a 10-12 year period by not paying his taxes. I have lots of sympathy for you though!


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## dereko1969 (30 Aug 2012)

Has he signed on for Job Seekers Allowance or spoken to anyone in DSP? 

Though I do agree with Purple.


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## Billo (30 Aug 2012)

Zadien said:


> I’ll be kicking him out of my house after Xmas.



Famous last words ?


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## Zadien (30 Aug 2012)

Purple said:


> Sorry, but it's hard to have sympathy for a man who stole tens of thousands from his neighbours over a 10-12 year period by not paying his taxes. I have lots of sympathy for you though!




Oh hey, I didnt come here looking for sympathy on his behalf. I agree with you 100%, I'm his blood and I cant tell you the anger and frustration that resides in me toward him.

All I want him to get is the bones bare minimum to survive




dereko1969 said:


> Has he signed on for Job Seekers Allowance or spoken to anyone in DSP?
> 
> Though I do agree with Purple.



What, you mean follow normal protocol? Not this man. I'll be suggesting to him that this will be what he MUST do next. 




coolhandluke said:


> Where has all the money gone ? Did he have any insurance/vat no. etc in all them years ?



I'm embarrassed to say, no to both. Never charged VAT, never have public liability insurance...The luck of the man not to have an accident or cause one on a commercial job is beyond me.




Billo said:


> Famous last words ?



I cant see why you might be cynical, but trust me when I say he's out. My wife has the same views as me but she was the one to convince me to let him stay in the first place.



He's a good man overall. When he has/had money everyday is Christmas for everybody (idiotic I know) but there never has been any talking to him.


I guess it's fair to say he's borked and a trip to the social welfare office is the only next step?


As a side to this, how or could he even get tax clearance to start working (for somebody) again?


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## wbbs (30 Aug 2012)

It's not really fair to say he stole from everyone unless we knew how much he made.  Maybe he wouldn't even have been liable for tax, we don't know.

Anyway OP in some ways it's irrelevant as even if he had registered as self employed and paid prsi etc he would not be eligible to claim Jobseekers Benefit now.  He would only have been able to apply for Jobseekers Allowance, the means tested version, he can still apply for this now but it will be means tested, I am not sure if they will take your income into account, I would be inclined to think they will but I am sure someone can give a more accurate answer on that.


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## Zadien (30 Aug 2012)

wbbs said:


> It's not really fair to say he stole from everyone unless we knew how much he made.  Maybe he wouldn't even have been liable for tax, we don't know.
> 
> Anyway OP in some ways it's irrelevant as even if he had registered as self employed and paid prsi etc he would not be eligible to claim Jobseekers Benefit now.  He would only have been able to apply for Jobseekers Allowance, the means tested version, he can still apply for this now but it will be means tested, I am not sure if they will take your income into account, I would be inclined to think they will but I am sure someone can give a more accurate answer on that.



It will never be possible to calculate his earnings.

He and my mother were paying back a mortgage of about 500pm for about the first 5 years, then they remortgaged and that figure went to 1100pm. I only ever found all this out when they called me a couple of years ago to say the family home was being repossessed followed soon after by them splitting up.

The arrears on that mortgage were huge so it was only paid in drips and drabs for the latter half of the 10year period.

As for current means, me and my wife feed him and thats about it.

Thanks for that advice by the way, I think he's been reluctant to approach the SW office in any way but if Job Seekers Allowance only takes into account his current means then he may feel more confident.


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## tester1 (30 Aug 2012)

Zadien said:


> 'He's a good man overall. When he has/had money everyday is Christmas for everybody (idiotic I know) but there never has been any talking to him.'
> 
> wow might be a bit harsh to kick out after Xmas then ........


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## Zadien (30 Aug 2012)

tester1 said:


> Zadien said:
> 
> 
> > 'He's a good man overall. When he has/had money everyday is Christmas for everybody (idiotic I know) but there never has been any talking to him.'
> ...


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## elcato (30 Aug 2012)

This kind of situation was a regular occurance in the 80's. The problem he has with making a SW claim is that they are going to ask what he lived on for the last ten years or where has he been *. If these answers are not forthcoming then he will get nothing. If he comes clean and says he didn't pay tax they will probably close the file and report him to revenue. Of course, revenue can't get blood out of a stone so I wouldn't worry about that. His only real option is to get a job of some sort.

* The answer everyone gave in the 80's was 'worked on the family farm' which got a quick short shrift and benefit was stopped.


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## truthseeker (30 Aug 2012)

What was the point of taking him in in the first place then, it would seem that just delays him doing anything about his situation?


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## gipimann (30 Aug 2012)

Just to clarify an earlier point made, your income will not be assessed in any means test carried out for the purposes of a SW claim made by your father.

As others have said, the hardest thing he will face when he makes a claim is explaining what he has been doing for the past 10 years, when there is no record of PRSI contributions or employment, or other SW income.


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## Zadien (30 Aug 2012)

gipimann said:


> Just to clarify an earlier point made, your income will not be assessed in any means test carried out for the purposes of a SW claim made by your father.
> 
> As others have said, the hardest thing he will face when he makes a claim is explaining what he has been doing for the past 10 years, when there is no record of PRSI contributions or employment, or other SW income.




Thanks for that clarification.

TBH, I don’t think it matters much at this stage. He has nothing so with that in mind he’s going in with nothing to lose. What I would like to see is him going in, getting assessed for a settlement, given a tax clearance so he can work and garnish his salary X amount for whatever years but I don’t know if it works like that.

Thing is, he’s excellent at his craft but he has the business acumen of a stink beetle.

Let me be clear that the preference is he gets cleared for work, this isn’t a case of ‘Gimmie, gimmie gimmie’!


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## T McGibney (30 Aug 2012)

Zadien said:


> What I would like to see is him going in, getting assessed for a settlement, given a tax clearance so he can work and garnish his salary X amount for whatever years but I don’t know if it works like that.



If he gets a decent accountant or tax advisor to help him, he should get an infinitely better deal from such a process and settlement as he will get if he approaches Revenue directly.


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