# Views on Investment Clubs



## olivia (4 Oct 2005)

Has anyone any views/knowledge of investment clubs operating in Ireland? Has anyone done the Investment Club Network 'Stockmarket Investing Skills' course ? If so, is it worth the 1000 euro price tag?


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## RainyDay (4 Oct 2005)

Hi Olivia - If you use the search facility (available on the bar across the top of the page) to search for 'investment clubs', you'll find some older discussions on this topic.


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## Lemurz (7 Oct 2005)

This is the new competitor to TICN who offer a free seminar...

www.investlikethebest.com


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## ClubMan (7 Oct 2005)

It looks like only the first one hour "seminar" is free and that you have to pay after that. There are lots of free resources out there for people who want to get involved in or start up investment clubs and nobody needs spend money that they could otherwise be investing on get rich quick seminars and courses that purport to teach you to time the markets and choose only winning stocks.


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## Observer (11 Oct 2005)

Yep, think you're right - the free 1 hour seminar looks like nothing more than an extended ad for the 1-day seminar.  And at €585 per person, it's pretty overpriced. Where's Eddir Hobbs when yopu need him?  In fairness though, it doesn't purport to pick only winners or to time the markets.  As AAM Guide to Savings and Investments readers know only too well, that's just not possible!  In fact, the outline of the 1 day course doesn't seem to contain anything that's not in the Guide.  And for free too!


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## ClubMan (11 Oct 2005)

Observer said:
			
		

> In fairness though, it doesn't purport to pick only winners or to time the markets.


The site claims (my underlining):



> *OUR 1-DAY SEMINAR WILL TEACH YOU*
> 
> ...
> What to Buy and When to Sell
> ...


which sounds like timing the market to me!


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## darag (11 Oct 2005)

I think I've lost my patience when people ask about these courses.  Basically, these courses are for mugs.  Spend a week reading the FREE information available all over the web and you'll learn much much more.  You'll also have learned the first lesson of investing - don't piss away your money.


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## Observer (12 Oct 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> ......which sounds like timing the market to me!......


 
Fair enough, I must have missed that bit!


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## Theo (14 Oct 2005)

Darag, how successful an investor are you from using this technique?





			
				darag said:
			
		

> I think I've lost my patience when people ask about these courses. Basically, these courses are for mugs. Spend a week reading the FREE information available all over the web and you'll learn much much more. You'll also have learned the first lesson of investing - don't piss away your money.


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## darag (14 Oct 2005)

> Darag, how successful an investor are you from using this technique?


Which technique?  Avoiding "pissing away money" or avoiding purchasing products from snake-oil salesmen?


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## markowitzman (14 Oct 2005)

a couple of hundred euro would buy you the investment classic books...graham...lynch...dreman...o neill etc etc. Buy them. As far as I can see the founders of these clubs are traders looking for another revenue stream.


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## RainyDay (15 Oct 2005)

markowitzman said:
			
		

> As far as I can see the founders of these clubs are traders looking for another revenue stream.


Which would lead one to wonder why, if their trading strategies are such foolproof paths to riches, they bother spending time/money/energy building up a training/networking business - why not focus all their time on trading?


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## ubiquitous (15 Oct 2005)

There is a direct conflict of interest in stockbrokers involving themselves in running courses on stockmarket investments. Investlikethebest is owned by a stockbroker. Stockbrokers gain more commissions when investors trade frequently. How often will they recommend "long term hold" strategies?


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## demoivre (24 Oct 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> There is a direct conflict of interest in stockbrokers involving themselves in running courses on stockmarket investments. Investlikethebest is owned by a stockbroker. Stockbrokers gain more commissions when investors trade frequently. How often will they recommend "long term hold" strategies?



It's also interesting to look at broker " sell " ratings on stock? I remember  when the Nasdaq  was at it's highest level ever in March 2000 there were precious few sell ratings on stocks by covering brokers   even though, by any stretch of the imagination, the valuations were crazy . If you were the ceo of a large co. that saw your stock price hammered  because of a broker downgrade would you give that broker any juicy corporate work that was on offer? Oh I forgot that's not supposed to have any influence on the ratings applied by brokers.!


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## c151174 (4 Mar 2006)

markowitzman said:
			
		

> a couple of hundred euro would buy you the investment classic books...graham...lynch...dreman...o neill etc etc. Buy them. As far as I can see the founders of these clubs are traders looking for another revenue stream.


 
And why do you think these people write books??? Its another revenue stream for them ,is it not?Information and education costs money,you do a course and pay for it its up to you at the end of the day to apply this education,the teachers of these courses can not be held responsible or the people who write the books,you dont slag the people who write the book because its cheeper to buy a book than buy a course so then it comes down to money and how much you really want to get educated


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## c151174 (4 Mar 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> The site claims (my underlining):
> 
> 
> which sounds like timing the market to me!


 
Not to me .Anyone who says they can time the market is talking rubbish,
The correct time to sell can mean that maybe you share is over priced and now could be the correct time to sell,this is not timing the market


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## c151174 (4 Mar 2006)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> Which would lead one to wonder why, if their trading strategies are such foolproof paths to riches, they bother spending time/money/energy building up a training/networking business - why not focus all their time on trading?


 
Ya and if everyone kept everything to themselves no one would no anything.


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## Humpback (6 Mar 2006)

c151174 said:
			
		

> Not to me .Anyone who says they can time the market is talking rubbish,
> The correct time to sell can mean that maybe you share is over priced and now could be the correct time to sell,this is not timing the market



Having seen the methods and "skills" taught by one investment club, TICN, timing of the market is specifically one of the things that they do encourage their members to pursue.

They don't even give you free reign on what stocks to analyse and buy buy. You get a listing of "vetted" stocks from head office each month to analyse and then make your buy decisions based on that.


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## ClubMan (6 Mar 2006)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> You get a listing of "vetted" stocks from head office each month to analyse and then make your buy decisions based on that.


Hmmm ... some scope there for head office bigwigs to engage in a bit of pump and dump? Not that I'm saying that they would of course. Just like all those people with access to insider info who don't use it when trading because it's illegal.


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## Humpback (6 Mar 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Hmmm ... some scope there for head office bigwigs to engage in a bit of pump and dump?


 
Or at least, because of what was mentioned already about the TICN organisation getting the 1/20th share for free on the back of all other investors, it means that their own money isn't really that much at risk.

Not that there's anything wrong that I suppose. Does mean though that given the 377 clubs listed on their website, 20 members per club, and with a €60 per month contribution per member, the TICN company is getting other people to invest over €250,000 of their own money for the benefit of TICN themselves. And that's not including the money they're making off fees, and admin costs and seminars.

Nice work if you can get it.


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