# "Sale" price



## UpTheBanner (31 Dec 2005)

Hi All,

I recently purchased an item of clothing for 70 euro on Christmas Eve. I like it so much that I bought another one in the same shop during the post Christmas "sale". However I noticed that the "sale" price was also 70 euro "reduced" from 100 euro !!! 

Is this false or misleading advertising?

Surely the practice of upping the price and then offering a 30% reduction in a "sale" is misleading?

Does anybody know if the Office of Consumer Affairs deal with these matters?


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## RainyDay (31 Dec 2005)

I'm pretty sure there used to be very tight regulation around this, whereby the product had to have been on sale at the original price for 30 out of the preceeding 90 days. I can't find any mention of this on the [broken link removed] website. Contact them directly for more information.


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## ClubMan (31 Dec 2005)

Is [broken link removed] of any use?


> *The Sales:*
> 
> 
> The consumer has the same rights when buying goods in the sales as at any other time. Goods bought in a sale must be 'fit for their purpose' and be 'as durable as can be expected' taking into consideration the price paid and any other relevant matters. For example, in a sale, goods marked: 'shop soiled', 'special purchase' or 'seconds' must nevertheless give reasonable value for money. The consumer has a right to redress if they are not of merchantable quality. However, shop soiled goods or 'seconds' cannot be expected to represent the same value for money as goods bought new and free from defects.
> ...


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## UpTheBanner (31 Dec 2005)

Many thanks - I plan to approach the shop manager next week armed with this info.


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## tiger (31 Dec 2005)

Apparently some places started their sales before Christmas?
Also I've heard of people buying goods a couple of days before a sale starts & still being offered the sale price.

Off to the pub now, happy new year!


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## DonKing (2 Jan 2006)

I was in DID(Lucan) recently and they had the word "Sale" all over everything but they didn't display the original pre-sale price. I found this very frustrating. I complained but they guy in the shop wasn't particulary interested.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> I was in DID(Lucan) recently and they had the word "Sale" all over everything but they didn't display the original pre-sale price. I found this very frustrating. I complained but they guy in the shop wasn't particulary interested.


 Why not complain to the [broken link removed] and/or [broken link removed]?


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## sun_sparks (4 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> I was in DID(Lucan) recently and they had the word "Sale" all over everything but they didn't display the original pre-sale price. I found this very frustrating. I complained but they guy in the shop wasn't particulary interested.



Was in DID Finglas last night. Same thing applied. 

On a different note, they also have things labelled as "Last One" with no apparent reduction. (Fair enough.) My problem was in seeing the exact same fridge facing one marked "Last One"!!!!


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2006)

sun_sparks said:
			
		

> On a different note, they also have things labelled as "Last One" with no apparent reduction. (Fair enough.) My problem was in seeing the exact same fridge facing one marked "Last One"!!!!


I'd imagine that there are no restrictions on retailers putting signs like that up although I'm open to correction.


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## joanmul (4 Jan 2006)

What about when Donaldson & Little in Dun Laoghaire have a sign up for the last few months saying "CLOSING DOWN SALE. EVERYTHING REDUCED!!!"   Then, after Christmas, they have a sign saying something like "Everything reduced" but the closing down sale part removed.   Are they not misleading customers with the first signs - my husband says they are forever closing down and always open!


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## Ash (4 Jan 2006)

I've seen some items marked "Sold As Seen"
What exactly does that mean?  Does it restrict one's statutory rights?


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2006)

While such signs may be misleading I don't think that there are any statutory rules against them so it's up to the customer to use their discretion when choosing to make a purchase or not. I don't think that any sign can abrogate or mitigate a consumer's statutory rights. I presume sold as seen would be used on ex display or damaged stock etc.


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## Marion (4 Jan 2006)

Hi Ash

I suspect "Sold as Seen" means that your attention is being drawn to perhaps a flaw in the goods or the fact that it may be shop soiled.

Your rights are restricted to the extent that if you buy the good you know that the flaw exists and so you have no right to a refund if you decide to return it because of the flaw. However, the good must still satisfy the Sale of Goods' Act. It must be merchantable and fit for the purpose for which intended.

[edit: post crossed with ClubMan's]

Marion


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## Capaill (4 Jan 2006)

Marion said:
			
		

> Hi Ash
> 
> I suspect "Sold as Seen" means that your attention is being drawn to perhaps a flaw in the goods or the fact that it may be shop soiled.
> 
> ...



Marion is correct.  There was a lady from the Consumer Rights Association on the last word yesterday evening and she stated that all goods sold must satisfy the sale of goods act.  However, if you purchsae something that you know is faulty, i.e. "sold as seen" then you have no statutory comeback and rely on the shops own returns policy.

C


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## Swallows (4 Jan 2006)

I went out today to buy a fan assisted oven to a shop that was advertising a sale. The oven which was featured in the advert was "sold out" but he could do me a deal on another one! Nothing in the shop was priced so how do I know I am getting the sale price. This  second oven was 100 euro dearer than the original "sale" one.

I went to another electrical shop and the same thing nothing priced. He could do a deal as well. Needless to say I was confused and came home without making a purchase. But I need the oven so I will have to go back and make a decision. Should all goods display a price?


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2006)

Swallows said:
			
		

> Should all goods display a price?


Yes - see [broken link removed].


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## Marion (5 Jan 2006)

Also note [broken link removed] from the ODCA relating in particular to the sale of electrical goods.

"*The price seen should be the price paid*" The waste charge should not be added on at the till.

Marion


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2006)

Marion said:
			
		

> "*The price seen should be the price paid*" The waste charge should not be added on at the till.


Strictly this would seem to make haggling for a lower price illegal even though I presume that's not the intention!


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## Swallows (5 Jan 2006)

Who is responsible for paying the twenty Euro waste charge?  is it the consumer?  in the shops that do display a price the amount for waste is displayed as a separate charge. 

I looked today at the Lidl site and that is how they show it. It is all very confusing because around where I live some things are not priced.  With the fan oven that I need to buy I am being told about this extra charge and it is being added on to the price. The shopkeeper blames the government.


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2006)

Where retailers display the charge they normally state that the charge is included in the shelf/display price of the goods. So the consumer pays it and the retailer remits it to the relevant authorities. I don't see where the confusion lies to be honest.


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## Marion (5 Jan 2006)

> "*The price seen should be the price paid*"


I don't like this slogan from the ODCA either but for a different reason. It is open to misinterpretation.

I dislike it because the slogan by itself suggests prices displayed on goods are legally binding,whereas they are only invitations to treat.

Marion


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## Ham Slicer (5 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> I was in DID(Lucan) recently and they had the word "Sale" all over everything but they didn't display the original pre-sale price. I found this very frustrating. I complained but they guy in the shop wasn't particulary interested.



I don't believe there is necessarily an obligation to show anymore than one price (the current price) in this situation.

DID sell goods so all their goods are for sale.  The big red sale sign gets customers into the shop.  The sale sign in itself does not imply that the goods have been reduced in price, only that they are for sale.

That's always been my understanding.


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## oulu (5 Jan 2006)

Seen in a sports shop runners before xmas 85E nothing else stated then after xmas same runners now 80E reduced from 120E


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2006)

oulu said:
			
		

> Seen in a sports shop runners before xmas 85E nothing else stated then after xmas same runners now 80E reduced from 120E


If that is in breach of the rules as stated on the _ODCA _site linked earlier then you should make a complaint about it.


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## DonKing (5 Jan 2006)

I had presummed that DID were not legally obliged to show the pre-sale price so I haven't bothered to complain to the relevant authorities. I may complain to their head office and let them know that I would be reluctant to buy anything else from them during their "SALES" or at any other time for that matter.

On another note, something which I have seen in Superquinn over the last few months which annoys me, is that they state the price for one item and also have a bigger price banner stating a price for a multiple number of these items. You would presume that you are getting a better deal if you buy the multiply amount but if fact it's the exact same price.

I had my ten buns in the bag, when I double checked the price and was disgusted to see this! I complained at customer service and gave them back the buns. 

I don't regularly do the shopping so maybe everybody is aware of this little trick except me?


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> You would presume that you are getting a better deal if you buy the multiply amount but if fact it's the exact same price.


 Why would you presume that to be the case...


> I had my ten buns in the bag, when I double checked the price and was disgusted to see this! I complained at customer service and gave them back the buns.


 ... or be disgusted by it?! At least you exercised your right not to purchase if you were not happy although I don't really see that there are reasonable grounds for complaint here myself.


> I don't regularly do the shopping so maybe everybody is aware of this little trick except me?


 Sometimes multipacks are actually *dearer *per item than buying individually. Caveat emptor.


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## DonKing (7 Jan 2006)

> Sometimes multipacks are actually dearer per item than buying individually. Caveat emptor



I could tolereate a higher price for a multipack (I'm thinking of apples/oranges multipacks here) as there is an extra cost for packaging. However what I am referring to is where the customer is encouraged to buy multiple numbers of individual items, such as the ten buns which I had to select individually and place in the bag.

I think it's reasonable to believe that if a shop is advertising/displaying a price for bulk amounts of indvidual items then there is some price discount over just buying one individual item.  I think Superquinn are exploiting this belief. I don't think SQ are doing it to help customers with their arithmetic!


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## ClubMan (7 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> I think it's reasonable to believe that if a shop is advertising/displaying a price for bulk amounts of indvidual items then there is some price discount over just buying one individual item.


I don't see how one follows from the other to be honest. One should always check the prices of individual or multiple items. Signs inviting customers to stock up on multiples of items imply nothing about price or discounts.


> I think Superquinn are exploiting this belief. I don't think SQ are doing it to help customers with their arithmetic!


I don't see how _Superquinn _are exploiting anything or anybody here to be honest.


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## RainyDay (7 Jan 2006)

oulu said:
			
		

> Seen in a sports shop runners before xmas 85E nothing else stated then after xmas same runners now 80E reduced from 120E


.
The real question is were they on sale at the higher price for at least 28 successive days in the previous three months.


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## DonKing (7 Jan 2006)

Well it's quite common for sellers to give discounts on bulk purchases. In my professional life I always look for bulk discounts for multiple purchases from suppliers and usually get them.

I think it's logical/reasonable to expect a discounted price over the single item price if a supplier advertisies a price for a bulk amount. If one of our suppliers did what Superquinn do, then I can tell you they wouldn't be supplying us for too long. 

Anyhow you're entitled to your opinion.


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## ClubMan (7 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> Well it's quite common for sellers to give discounts on bulk purchases.


 Well, as I mentioned earlier sometimes bulk packs are actually dearer than buying the same number of items individually. And you stated that you don't find this unacceptable.


> I think it's logical/reasonable to expect a discounted price over the single item price if a supplier advertisies a price for a bulk amount.


 Following on from the previous point I don't think that this necessarily follows and one always needs to exercise discretion when making any purchase and apprise oneself of the price and comparable prices.


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## DonKing (7 Jan 2006)

I can accept a "bulk pack" being more expensive than buying the same number individually because you are getting added value. Apples for instance come in trays nicely wrapped in celophane. The celophane keeps insects and dirt at bay and the tray is handy for storage. 

You haven't made any arguments which have changed my opinion. I think we'ill have to agree to differ on this one.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2006)

DonKing said:
			
		

> You haven't made any arguments which have changed my opinion. I think we'ill have to agree to differ on this one.


 Fair enough. I just don't see that there are any reasonable or valid grounds for complaint, never mind "disgust", on the part of a shopper where a retailer has a sign saying "10 buns for €x" where one bun costs €x / 10.


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## UpTheBanner (8 Jan 2006)

Hi,

just to let everyone know that I spoke to the shop manager and she agreed that this should not have happened and that it must have been a wrong tag scanned (hhhhmmmm) and I got a refund.


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## moylan1 (10 Jan 2006)

"Sold as seen"


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## moylan1 (10 Jan 2006)

surely this sign means absolutely nothing. if you take this literally, then everything and all in a shop, sale or no sale, is sold as seen. according to the sale of goods act the retailer must have an obligation to point out the defects.


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## jdf (10 Jan 2006)

What ever happened to the "baker's dozen" anyway?


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## ClubMan (10 Jan 2006)

I think they were acquitted on a miscarriage of justice.


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## brokeparent (10 Jan 2006)

Just tuned in to this link this evening so am a bit behind on the opinions. Clubman, why would any store advertise in the manner that DonKing is referring to if it is not to sell more of a particular item. If a person wants 10 buns they will choose 10 buns so why put up a big sign? I think it is reasonable for anyone to assume that there must be a saving there. You certainly give good advice re: checking the prices yourself but I think DonKing is certainly making a valid point. by discussing it freely here fewer of the unsuspecting amongst us will fall for this in the future


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## ClubMan (10 Jan 2006)

brokeparent said:
			
		

> Just tuned in to this link this evening so am a bit behind on the opinions. Clubman, why would any store advertise in the manner that DonKing is referring to if it is not to sell more of a particular item. If a person wants 10 buns they will choose 10 buns so why put up a big sign? I think it is reasonable for anyone to assume that there must be a saving there. You certainly give good advice re: checking the prices yourself but I think DonKing is certainly making a valid point. by discussing it freely here fewer of the unsuspecting amongst us will fall for this in the future


I just disagree that a sign promoting multiple items necessarily implies that a discount applies. It would depend on the wording of the sign of course but in general I don't see the logic of assuming this.


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## bb12 (20 Jan 2006)

Of course a sign promoting multiple signs for sales _implies_ a discount! It's just another one of those retailing tricks...like putting the essentials such as milk, butter and bread at the back of the supermarket to make you walk through the whole thing to get them, in the hope that you'll pick up something else you didn't intend to along the way; like playing slow music when there's not many people in to prolong their stay as much as possible and playing fast music to clear them all out when the place is packed...everything in retail is to boost sales (obviously!) and they have many ways of achieving this, mostly without people consciously noticing!


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## ClubMan (20 Jan 2006)

bb12 said:
			
		

> Of course a sign promoting multiple signs for sales _implies_ a discount!


 I still disagree. If it doesn't explicitly say "sale" or "save" or "discount" or something like that then it doesn't imply anything of the sort.


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