# Garda Pay



## noproblem (6 Jun 2019)

A Garda on €80k a year?????????????????????????


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jun 2019)

noproblem said:


> A Garda on €80k a year?????????????????????????



Senior ones, yes.

The non-use of IT within AGS is pretty chronic.

They should have some record of it. If this ever happened to me I would insist on a written receipt.


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## noproblem (6 Jun 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Senior ones, yes.
> 
> The non-use of IT within AGS is pretty chronic.
> 
> They should have some record of it. If this ever happened to me I would insist on a written receipt.


There are no Garda on €80k. There may be more senior positions within the force with salaries of this scale, but there are no Garda earning  those figures.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jun 2019)

noproblem said:


> There are no Garda on €80k. There may be more senior positions within the force with salaries of this scale, but there are no Garda earning  those figures.



I base this claim on a chat with a friend at the time who worked on public service pay policy ten or 11 years ago.


At the time (pre cuts, but also pre-restoration) he told me senior guards made the equivalent of €90k. This was as a result of various allowances and regular (but not onerous) overtime.


I am happy to be corrected if you have better source.


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## vandriver (6 Jun 2019)

Irish Times quote from 2018
'...Average weekly earnings in the public sector are increasing under all headings, with the best paid group of public servants continuing to be gardaí. They earn, on average, about €1,300 a week, according to figures from the first quarter of this year....'

So if the average is near 68k,it's not much of a stretch to imagine plenty of guards on 80k


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## NoRegretsCoyote (7 Jun 2019)

vandriver said:


> Irish Times quote from 2018
> '...Average weekly earnings in the public sector are increasing under all headings, with the best paid group of public servants continuing to be gardaí. They earn, on average, about €1,300 a week, according to figures from the first quarter of this year....'
> 
> So if the average is near 68k,it's not much of a stretch to imagine plenty of guards on 80k



CSO [broken link removed]show average AGS hourly labour costs are €32.52, with average weekly hours worked of 42.1 hours.

This comes out at a little over €71k a year. 

Granted this includes senior management, but it also includes new recruits and other junior staff.

Given that pay is based on seniority, I don't think it's implausible to claim that a senior guard could be on €80k a year.


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

noproblem said:


> A Garda on €80k a year?????????????????????????


Average Garda pay is €67,600 plus allowances. Factor in the value of their pension (they can retire after 30 years service) and their average pay in well over €100,000 a year. It was over €100,000 in 2016 and they have has significant pay increases since then.


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> CSO [broken link removed]show average AGS hourly labour costs are €32.52, with average weekly hours worked of 42.1 hours.
> 
> This comes out at a little over €71k a year.
> 
> ...


Those figures ignore pensionable allowances. If it's pensionable then it is pay.


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## newbie2 (7 Jun 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> CSO [broken link removed]show average AGS hourly labour costs are €32.52, with average weekly hours worked of 42.1 hours.
> 
> This comes out at a little over €71k a year.
> 
> ...



*Fact check:  "Possibly a Garda on €80,000 a year one-finger types it into a computer somewhere. "*


I think the confusion here is the use of the term garda. Most of us use it to refer to the employees of the entire work force. 
But, in reality, it is the lowest rank within the police force.

*Basic Pay - allowances in brackets, 2 figures given as it varies dependent on role**

1) Garda - €30,926 up to €52,482 after 19 years   (€38,658/€40,204 up to €65,603/€68,227)
2) Sergeant - €52,927 up to €59,956 after 13 years (€66,159/€68,805 up to €74,945/€77,943)
3) Inspector - €60,246 up to €66,136 after 7 years (€75,308/€78,320 up to €82,670/€85,977)

4) Superintendent - €79,054 up to €91,365 after 8 years  (not sure if these ranks get shift allowances)
5) Chief Superintendent - €93,762 up to €111,305 after 7 years

6) Assistant Commissioner - €144,213 per year according to press reports, can't find official source online (examiner.ie, april 2014)
7) Deputy Commissioner - €163,365 per year according to press reports, can't find official source online (examiner.ie, april 2014)

8) Commissioner - €250,000 per year according to press reports, can't find official source online (irishtimes.com, june 2018)

*** _"It is important to recall that the Garda pay scale does not represent the full earnings of a Garda as it does not include any allowances. Gardaí assigned to frontline duties work the Garda Roster which attracts unsocial hours payments. *Such payments amount to between 25% and 30%* of their earnings. Even at the entry level of €23,750 and the lower end of unsocial hours scale, this will add almost €6,000 to the salary. Other allowances may also be payable, as may overtime."_ - Frances Fitzgerald, Minister for Justice, written response to Parliamentary question in 2016.

The ministers statement, above, refers to a figure of €23,750 - this was before the restoration and subsuming of garda Rent Allowance (€4,017 per annum, flat rate) into basic salary, as well as other additional payments that were brought about by the (illegal) threatened strike action.

So, to get back to the original question... it is *unlikely that there is a garda on €80K*. The most they could get, after 19 years, is €65,603 - €68,227 depending on where they fall based on the Ministers assessment of shift allowances being 25% to 30%. Garda can also chose to do overtime to increase their take home pay beyond €68,227.

Garda are extremely well paid for a job that requires minimal qualifications to enter and allows for retirement on a full pension after only 30 years.


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

newbie2 said:


> *Fact check:  "Possibly a Garda on €80,000 a year one-finger types it into a computer somewhere. "*
> 
> 
> I think the confusion here is the use of the term garda. Most of us use it to refer to the employees of the entire work force.
> ...


The report by former chairman of the Labour Court John Horgan, discussed in the link I posted above, tells us that in 2016 the average pay for Gardai was €63,450. That did not include all allowances. Since then there has been a pay increase and a restoration of other allowances, including the Rent Allowance you list above.
So, prior to those significant increases the average package for a Garda was worth over €100,000 a year when the value of their pension is included.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (7 Jun 2019)

This is why I went to CSO data. It includes 'other labour costs' which is presumably things like unsociable hours and rent allowance.

If the top of the scale for a Garda is €68k it's not implausible that a senior garda (lowest rank) will take home €80k taking into account various allowances and overtime.


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## newbie2 (7 Jun 2019)

The €68K *includes *the major allowances already. The employee would have to work €12,000 worth of overtime in the year to get to the €80K mark. Not an impossible feat but probably only feasible in certain areas.


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

newbie2 said:


> The €68K *includes *the major allowances already. The employee would have to work €12,000 worth of overtime in the year to get to the €80K mark. Not an impossible feat but probably only feasible in certain areas.


We are in agreement. All major allowances but not all allowances are in the €68K average figure. Taking pension value into account the real average pay level is well over €100,000 a year. For those who work extra hours and claim those other unvouched expenses that figure is higher. Therefore the cost to the State for the average Garda is well over €100,000 per year.

Edit: John Hogan estimated that Garda pensions were worth 80% of the value of their salary. €68,000 x 1.8 = €122,400.
So I was wrong; it's not €100,000. It is much higher than that.


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## newbie2 (7 Jun 2019)

If the generous pension provisions could be addressed, the state would possibly get better value for money. I wonder has any thought ever been given to only allow those who work a 24 hr roster to be entitled to retire after 30 yrs. I get the argument that long term shift work can be onerous - particularly as you age.  But what about those employees that don't spend 30 yrs doing shift work, why should they get such a sweet retirement deal?


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

newbie2 said:


> If the generous pension provisions could be addressed, the state would possibly get better value for money. I wonder has any thought ever been given to only allow those who work a 24 hr roster to be entitled to retire after 30 yrs. I get the argument that long term shift work can be onerous - particularly as you age.  But what about those employees that don't spend 30 yrs doing shift work, why should they get such a sweet retirement deal?


I don't think new entrants get as sweet a pension, though it cannot drop below €36,000 a year for anyone retiring after 30 years. 
I've no real problem with their pay. I just wish they'd stop telling lies about it, though they aren't nearly as bad as  Nurses or teachers when it comes to telling lies about their real pay levels. Ditto for them; I've no problem with their pay levels either. I thing discussing pay in any organisation before you discuss efficiency and labour flexibility is stupid.


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## noproblem (7 Jun 2019)

Thank you "newbie". My point is proven.


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## Purple (7 Jun 2019)

noproblem said:


> Thank you "newbie". My point is proven.


Did you not read the thread?!
You said "There are no Garda on €80k" 
Top pay scale for Garda is €68,227 + 25% allowances = €85,283.75 so many Gardai are on over €80,000 a year.
Lowest Pay scale for Garda Sergeants is €66,159 + 25% allowances = €83,506.25 so just about every Garda Sergeant is on over €80,000. 

You said none. That means not one.



newbie2 said:


> 1) Garda - €30,926 up to €52,482 after 19 years (€38,658/€40,204 up to €65,603/€68,227)
> 2) Sergeant - €52,927 up to €59,956 after 13 years (€66,159/€68,805 up to €74,945/€77,943)
> 3) Inspector - €60,246 up to €66,136 after 7 years (€75,308/€78,320 up to €82,670/€85,977)
> 
> ...


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## SparkRite (7 Jun 2019)

Deleted.
Didn't make sense following split from original thread.


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## Leo (7 Jun 2019)

Note:  Split from the I did produce license and insurance  thread


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