# How to hold on to assets if Ireland leaves the euro



## mattmacg (26 Jan 2009)

In the event of Ireland leaving the euro, what it the best way to keep any of my assets in euro? 
If I leave my euro in my rabo direct bank account, will this continue to be in euro or will it be converted back into Irish pounds?
Or should I buy shares in Germany?


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## PaddyBloggit (26 Jan 2009)

Who said Ireland was leaving the Euro?


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## allthedoyles (26 Jan 2009)

53% voted NO to the Lisbon and now ye want to leave the euro zone ?

When are we all going to eventually see the mistakes of the past have us in this situation.

Ireland needs Europe AND needs the EURO !


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## CN624 (26 Jan 2009)

I think the OP just wants to know how best to protect his assets in the unlikely event that we do at some stage leave the euro. ​


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## mattmacg (26 Jan 2009)

I hope we won't have to leave the euro. But I am wondering what happens to any assets I have if we do. 
Would money in my rabo direct account be converted back into irish pounds? The irish pound is then floated on the open market (devalued in all likelyhood). Or would I get to keep my account in euro as rabo direct is based in the netherlands?
We shouldn't have to leave the euro, but if we get to a situation where the government are unable to repay the debt, then it might be the only option left.


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## smiley (26 Jan 2009)

The chances of ireland leaving the euro are probably the same as me winning the lotto...and I rarely play the lotto.


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## soy (30 Jan 2009)

Invest in tinned food, ammo and a heavy duty security system for your home. Stay inside and wait it out. 

Seriously all this nonsense about Ireland quitting the euro is crazy. The euro is the only thing that has prevented us from imploding, why on earth would we quit?


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## george.shaw (30 Jan 2009)

Absolutely right - would be insane to leave the Euro. Respect David McWilliams but think his advice to leave the Euro is very dangerous. If adopted and hope it is highly unlikely - it would see us have a currency crisis and massive inflation that would make the current bout of deflation look benign. 

Right now, more than ever before, makes absolute sense to be really diversified and to be more defensive - diversify into fundamentally sound currencies like the Swiss franc or the Singapore dollar; buy some precious metals; and buy non US, dividend-paying stocks, possibly with an emphasis on natural-resources companies (especially if inflation takes off) and inflation linked AAA rated bonds.

Tinned food is not good as loses 80% of it's nutritional value.
;-)


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## z103 (30 Jan 2009)

I don't think the issue is Ireland wanting to leave the Euro, but what happens if we are ejected from the Euro?

I have some money in cash (Euro). The rest I'm paying off my mortgage, which will probably remain in Euro. I keep a trifling amount in bank accounts. I'm also thinking of buying gold or silver.


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## Chris (30 Jan 2009)

Even if Ireland were 'kicked out' of the Euro, it would not be able to happen over night. It took years to get ready for the Euro, setting up systems, printing and coining money, etc. There would be plenty of time to move your cash around to foreign banks.


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## Nermal (30 Jan 2009)

Guys, the mere fact that it is being talked about should make you realise it's a distinct possibility. You will get notification in advance alright - notification that you can't transfer money out of the country any more.


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## Guest116 (30 Jan 2009)

Yeah but whos talking about it but the average Joe Soaps on this site? (No disrespect)


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## Nermal (30 Jan 2009)

Joe Soap talks about it, it starts to gain media time, our CDS grows ever larger and we cannot borrow.

Government finances may get tighter. At some point, we may not be able to borrow to pay salaries, and the government may face a decision: face down the unions or leave the Euro and pay them in a new devalued currency.


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## jhegarty (30 Jan 2009)

Nermal said:


> Guys, the mere fact that it is being talked about should make you realise it's a distinct possibility. You will get notification in advance alright - notification that you can't transfer money out of the country any more.



How exactly would they go about freezing every bank account in the country for the 12/24 months it would take to get setup for a new currency ?


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## z103 (30 Jan 2009)

> How exactly would they go about freezing every bank account in the country for the 12/24 months it would take to get setup for a new currency ?


Well the banks will probably all be nationalised by then, so it won't be too difficult to freeze the accounts.


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## rmelly (30 Jan 2009)

leghorn said:


> Well the banks will probably all be nationalised by then, so it won't be too difficult to freeze the accounts.


 
I think the point he was making was that if all accounts are frozen how do we pay for goods or services? Do we switch to bartering overnight?


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## z103 (30 Jan 2009)

> I think the point he was making was that if all accounts are frozen how do we pay for goods or services? Do we switch to bartering overnight?


I suppose that question brings us back to 'How to hols on to assets if Ireland leaves the euro'.
I'll have my silver and cash to use for barter. Cigarettes are usually good for small items.


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## jhegarty (30 Jan 2009)

rmelly said:


> I think the point he was making was that if all accounts are frozen how do we pay for goods or services? Do we switch to bartering overnight?



Yep that it. 

You could just withdraw your money the day it's announced and ryanair to London to open a sterling account.


There is no "Irish Euro", just a euro. The money in your pocket is exactly the same as someone in Berlin. You can't freeze that money unless you plan to close the border, and freeze any account and financial transactions in the country for 12 months.


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## z103 (30 Jan 2009)

I would guess that Irish Euro accounts would change to a new Irish currency overnight. How else could it happen?
The new currency would quickly become worthless.

When this happens, it'll be far too late to start moving money.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

leghorn said:


> I would guess that Irish Euro accounts would change to a new Irish currency overnight. How else could it happen?
> The new currency would quickly become worthless.
> 
> When this happens, it'll be far too late to start moving money.



Converting a currency takes years , how could they possibly do it over night ?


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## z103 (31 Jan 2009)

Why does it take years?


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

leghorn said:


> Why does it take years?




If nothing else than converting all the software and printing the notes/coins.


Do you now remember all the build up and planning for the euro ?


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## z103 (31 Jan 2009)

Well Ireland get booted out, then printing money etc is our problem. Doubt the EU will care too much.

Software changes shouldn't be too bad. Banking systems are already multi-currency. We've already done it once for the Euro change over. In most cases, it'll just be a simple case of changing labels from €s to NIrl£ (new Irish punts AKA berties)


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

But we can't be kicked out.

We can leave , but it's process that would take years. There could be no freeze on the assets or money during that time.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

ExEircom said:


> Why Not.....



The first reason that springs to mind is that we would have a veto on any vote.

Even then you are talking about us been kicked out of the eu , you can be in the euro but not in the eu. 

I don't think there is any method to forceably stop a country using a currency.


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## cleverclogs7 (31 Jan 2009)

jhegarty said:


> Yep that it.
> 
> You could just withdraw your money the day it's announced and ryanair to London to open a sterling account.
> 
> ...


 .


You better check your euro coins again. irish harp.....in my hand i have 5 cent coin eire 2007 anf a spanish 1 euro coin.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> .
> 
> 
> You better check your euro coins again. irish harp.....in my hand i have 5 cent coin eire 2007 anf a spanish 1 euro coin.




That's only a picture on the back. A coin is no more irish with a harp than any other euro design.

By that logic because they didn't use any Irish bridges on the notes then we don't have any paper money at all.


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## george.shaw (31 Jan 2009)

The Euro has issues of it own as seen in this article:
Support for euro in doubt as Germans reject Latin bloc notes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...doubt-as-Germans-reject-Latin-bloc-notes.html

X-factor: German bank customers are favouring notes that start with the distinctive ?X? serial numbers, which show they have come from Berlin 
*
Notes printed in Berlin have more currency for bank customers who fear a 'value crisis' *

Ordinary Germans have begun to reject euro bank notes with serial numbers from Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal, raising concerns that public support for monetary union may be waning in the eurozone's anchor country."

Think Germans might also be worried about Irish euro bank notes.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

george.shaw said:


> Ordinary Germans have begun to reject euro bank notes with serial numbers from Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal, raising concerns that public support for monetary union may be waning in the eurozone's anchor country."




In other new ordinary Germans apparently don't understand what a common currency is.


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## george.shaw (31 Jan 2009)

From the Telegraph article - "
Italian notes have an "S" from the Instituto Poligrafico in Rome, and Spanish notes have a "V" from the Fabrica Nacional de Moneda in Madrid. The notes are entirely interchangeable and circulate freely through the eurozone and, indeed, beyond.
People clearly suspect that southern notes may lose value in a crisis, or if the eurozone breaks apart. This is what happened in the US in the Jackson era of the 1840s when dollar notes from different regions traded at different values.
"The scurrilous idea behind this is that if the eurozone should succumb to growing divergences, then it is best to cling to most stable countries," said the Handelsblatt."

Germans know what a common currency is and know that the profligacy of the PIGS might cause them a lot of financial and economic pain. Some obviously also realise that if one of the PIGS was order forced to leave the euro or decided to leave in order to devalue their currency - then the Spanish, Italian or other bank notes might not be as valuable as the German banknotes as happened in the US in the 19th century.


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## skatter (31 Jan 2009)

Without the Euro we would be worse off then Iceland...it is only the power of this mass currency that's keeping us afloat in this sea...but it'd be pretty neat to hold a million PUNT bill with NO value...


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## z103 (31 Jan 2009)

> but it'd be pretty neat to hold a million PUNT bill with NO value.


Only if the mortgage is in Punts too.


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## skatter (31 Jan 2009)

A slippery slope indeed!


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

george.shaw said:


> Germans know what a common currency is and know that the profligacy of the PIGS might cause them a lot of financial and economic pain. Some obviously also realise that if one of the PIGS was order forced to leave the euro or decided to leave in order to devalue their currency - then the Spanish, Italian or other bank notes might not be as valuable as the German banknotes as happened in the US in the 19th century.




Look at the notes in your pocket. It is issues by the European Central Bank and signed by the President of the European Central Bank.

That is the difference between now and 19th century America, there was no central issuer of notes.

The use of the term German Banknotes is wrong , there is no German bank notes. Unless you can find a note issued by the German central bank ?


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## george.shaw (31 Jan 2009)

Errrr - i suggest you read or re read the Telegraph article:
"Each country prints its own notes according to its economic weight, under strict guidelines from the European Central Bank in Frankfurt. The German notes have an "X"' at the start of the serial numbers, showing that they come from the Bundesdruckerei in Berlin."

Look at any euro note and find the top right-hand corner of the side with the map. Preceding the serial number is a letter in the tiniest of prints. This is a code for the central bank that commissioned the note, though not necessarily the country of printing. If you have one with the letter Y – the code for Greece – you might want to swap it after last week's humiliating decision by Standard & Poor's to downgrade the country's sovereign debt from A to A-1. 


The downgrade came after the Greek government carried out an unusual €2.5bn (£2.3bn) debt sale issued as three-month notes, rather than longer-term bonds, suggesting that it knew investors wouldn't want the long-term debt. Indeed, interest spreads on Greek 10-year bonds are now trading 245 basis points higher than German bunds – despite inflation falling rapidly in the second-half of last year. 

But Greece's problems are not a surprise to many German savers who have been worrying about the growing economic rift between the north and south for months. What's more, they have been boycotting euros coded from the south and demanding their own bank notes – letter X. According to German reports, more ordinary savers are withdrawing money from branches rather than cash machines as it makes it easier to screen the notes. If the notes carry the Y, or S for Italy, or V for Spain – savers are asking for them to be exchanged for X-rated euros printed by the Bundesdruckerei in Berlin. 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...not-allow-a-modern-greek-tragedy-1418578.html

Europe will of course attempt to stop a modern Greek tragedy but given the scale of this crisis, whether it is successful is an entirely different matter.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

If it really worked like that then there would be a exchange rate between the different euro countries that fluctuated all the time.

Where can I get an exchange rate for "German Euros" ?


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## rmelly (31 Jan 2009)

so we don't have a single currency? next we'll have different ECB interest rates.


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## george.shaw (31 Jan 2009)

Errrr, think the two articles clearly point to the fact that some Germans are worried that at some stage in the coming months/ years, the euros issued by the PIGS countries may become worth less than the German ones (especially if they go bankrupt). There concerns may be overblown but there are real as seen in the two articles (one in the Euro skeptic Telegraph and one Tony O'Reilly's UK Independent).


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## rmelly (31 Jan 2009)

another reason to vote No to Lisbon? the eurocrats have been misleading all these years about the so called single currency?


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## z103 (31 Jan 2009)

I'm going to exchange my emergency cash for 'X' Euros.


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## jhegarty (31 Jan 2009)

rmelly said:


> so we don't have a single currency? next we'll have different ECB interest rates.




It would seem so. And here was me (and the banks and government) thinking we had a common currency .


This solves all our problems , was can devalue the "Irish Euro" tomorrow and lower our interest rate. Happy days.

I will phone Brian and let him know.


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## rmelly (31 Jan 2009)

jhegarty said:


> It would seem so. And here was me (and the banks and government) thinking we had a common currency .
> 
> 
> This solves all our problems , was can devalue the "Irish Euro" tomorrow and lower our interest rate. Happy days.
> ...


 
I suspect he's 3 steps ahead of you on this - it explains why he has been so calm over the last few months - he has this in his back pocket.


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## mattmacg (29 Apr 2010)

Paul Krugman has an interesting article in todays New York Times talking about members leaving the eurozone.


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## Brigid (1 May 2010)

Going back to the original question almost a year and a half ago ..."how to hold on to assets if Ireland leaves the Euro" ... what about holding your money in a sterling bank account and see what happens for a few months... any ideas?


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## brendanyumo (1 May 2010)

allthedoyles said:


> 53% voted NO to the Lisbon and now ye want to leave the euro zone ?
> 
> When are we all going to eventually see the mistakes of the past have us in this situation.
> 
> Ireland needs Europe AND needs the EURO !


Ireland should never have joined the Euro.It was FF sucking up to Brussels.We are in the hole we're in now because of the disasterous bank guarantees given by the two solicitors 'managing' the economy and joining the Euro currency area.


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## JoeB (4 May 2010)

Brigid said:


> Going back to the original question almost a year and a half ago ..."how to hold on to assets if Ireland leaves the Euro" ... what about holding your money in a sterling bank account and see what happens for a few months... any ideas?



Gold has gone up more than 20% since January, 2009, to May, 2010... silver more than 30% over the same period..


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## sustanon (4 May 2010)

I suspect the scenario of Ireland leaving the Euro would be after recieving an EU/IMF bailout as Greece is recieving, thereby holding massive debt in Euro paying it back with a devalued Punt, increasing the cost to repay. It just doesn't make sense. Greece would be crazy to go back to the drachma, watch it dive, then wake up with a Euro Hangover.


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## Rujib (5 May 2010)

rmelly said:


> I suspect he's 3 steps ahead of you on this - it explains why he has been so calm over the last few months - he has this in his back pocket.


 
Nah! That's where he keeps the garlic


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## mattmacg (5 May 2010)

So if Ireland leaves the euro, will the euros in my rabo direct account be safe?


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## Gringo (7 May 2010)

mattmacg said:


> So if Ireland leaves the euro, will the euros in my rabo direct account be safe?



Rabo say they'd make a decision at that point which made sense, but in all likelihood they would be compelled to change it to 'Irish' euro's by legislation


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## Splat (7 May 2010)

Gringo said:


> Rabo say they'd make a decision at that point which made sense, but in all likelihood they would be compelled to change it to 'Irish' euro's by legislation


 
When did they say this, who asked them?


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## Rory Gillen (13 May 2010)

It is more likely, and quite realistic, that Germany leaves the Euro in time and leaves it to the rest of us in which case the Euro would then be left to reflect the fundamentals of the countries left in the Eurozone - with lots of debt behind most of the Euros stragglers. The question posed is realistic and you avoid the risk by buying assets in other currencies and/or a precious metal like Gold/Silver - this is why the precious metals are in a bull market. Most of the major currencies have huge debt loads against them.


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