# Withholding personal belongings and post from ex-tenant



## VOR (16 Dec 2008)

I was asked this last night by a friend and I would appreciate advise from landlords.

The landlord let a house in October to a couple who paid one month up front and a deposit. The couple said it was their intention to stay long term but did not like the kitchen. They asked if they could take out the existing kitchen and replace it at their own expense.
My friend, the landlord, agreed to this. The couple seemed nice and he believed there would be no problems. They had references that checked out. This was not agreed in writing though.
The couple did not pay the rent in November and came up with excuse after excuse for not paying. Finally they agreed to move out. The landlord met the couple outside the house last wednesday and asked for the rent owing. The couple said they would have it in 2 days (Friday last). They also asked to come back on the Friday to collect personal belongings they still had left in the house. The landlord said that he would consider opening up the property again once the kitchen and the missing months rent was paid.
The landlord asked about the kitchen which was now ripped out. The couple said the new kitchen would arrive on last Friday also. They even gave the name of the kitchen company that was to install the unit. 
After calling the kitchen company, it transpired that the couple had ordered the kitchen but had not paid the thousands of euro owing. The kitchen co. eventually had to cancel the order.

Yesterday, the couple texted the landlord asking for their post and the remaining personal belongings. There was no mention of the money owed or replacing the kitchen. My friend is not happy to give these people access to the house again until the work is complete. 

He asked me if he was within his rights to refuse the couple access to their post and belongings. I said I wasn't sure with regard to the post in particular.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, VOR


----------



## Hillsalt (16 Dec 2008)

What would I do?  Change the locks. Put their stuff into storage. Send them a solicitors letter to the address that they provided (which is probably not theirs). Get new tenants in.

I don't think he will get his old kitchen back and it is quite unlikely that they will pay up. I'd say it's a scam; they probably sold the old kitchen or used it in their _new_ home. Are all of the white goods gone too? 

Normally, kitchen companies remove old kitchens before installing a new one so I am very suspicious that they went to the trouble of ripping out the old one. 

I never heard of tenants proposing to renovate a property for free. Usually, they are reluctant to pay for a lighbulb, never mind a kitchen.


----------



## jhegarty (16 Dec 2008)

Did it not sound strange that someone wanted to spend 1000s on a kitchen for a rented house ?


----------



## Bronte (17 Dec 2008)

jhegarty said:


> Did it not sound strange that someone wanted to spend 1000s on a kitchen for a rented house ?


  I too do not understand this.  I also very much doubt they can reinstall a probably demolished kitchen.  
OP the landlord cannot keep their stuff plain and simple.


----------



## extopia (17 Dec 2008)

Sounds like a very naive landlord / amateur investor who might consider going into a different business?


----------



## VOR (17 Dec 2008)

Thanks all. I agree it was a naive thing to do. The landlord had checked the references and on meeting the couple, he felt secure. Very silly really to allow this to happen. 
I spoke to him last night. He is leaving the possessions in the house. They moved out voluntarily and give him the key. It is his opinion that it is not his problem if they left belongings in the house.  
He has changed the locks already. 
With regard to the post, the landlord is calling his solicitor today to see where he stands. He has a forwarding address for the couple which he received by text yesterday. I suspect the solicitor will send a bill to the forwarding address and hold the post until the money is paid. Just a hunch.

Lesson learned the hard way.


----------



## sam h (17 Dec 2008)

A VERY hard lesson !!!

I'm fairly sure he can't hold onto the post.

As for the rest of their stuff, it would probably depend on exactly how it was agreed that they could leave their stuff - if they were due to move out on Wednesday & said they couldn't take everything & he said something like "you must take it all now or else I will only be able to return it, if you pay me all outstanding money"...then he may be ok.  
But it's probably not worth the hassle - they probably didn't leave anything of great value.

Reckon this is one to notch up to experience....a nightmare experience


----------



## VOR (17 Dec 2008)

I just received a call from my friend. His solicitor has refused to take the post. He has been instructed to hand it all over and confirm the forwarding address. The solicitor said he will then write to the couple with the bill for the kitchen and the esb bill. 
He really has no chance of getting any money.


----------



## AlbacoreA (17 Dec 2008)

I'd be with the solicitor. Hard lesson, but very naive letting a tenant do DIY. The landlord might be well advised to get someone else to manage the property if they are that naive.


----------



## Bronte (18 Dec 2008)

VOR said:


> I just received a call from my friend. His solicitor has refused to take the post. He has been instructed to hand it all over and confirm the forwarding address. The solicitor said he will then write to the couple with the bill for the kitchen and the esb bill.
> He really has no chance of getting any money.


 And he'll have a solicitors bill as well.  Might be cheaper to go through the PRTB but of course they are useless for landlords.


----------



## MrMan (18 Dec 2008)

In this case he basically has made all of the mistakes so must be prepared to take the hit and put it down as a lesson learned. For something of the magnitude of changing a kitchen he really should have gotten it in writing but I guess at the time he thought they must be tenants from heaven rather than the polar opposite. give them their belongings and post, also I hope that he has it in writing that they have finished up and handed back their keys voluntarily, because if he is going to go through prtb they will see it as an illegal eviction if the tenants say that they didn't hand back the keys and the landlord changed the locks. He may have some more lessons learned by the end of this saga.


----------



## MissThing (18 Dec 2008)

VOR said:


> I was asked this last night by a friend and I would appreciate advise from landlords.
> 
> The couple said it was their intention to stay long term but did not like the kitchen. They asked if they could take out the existing kitchen and replace it at their own expense.


 
A couple of years ago I almost rented to a couple who, prior to signing the lease and paying deposit and rent said they wanted to replace the kitchen AND floors, yet they couldn't come up with the depoist/rent I just thought it shifty and didn't go ahead with the tenancy - turns out they were very shifty indeed!!! What area did this happen ?


----------



## VOR (18 Dec 2008)

MissThing said:


> A couple of years ago I almost rented to a couple who, prior to signing the lease and paying deposit and rent said they wanted to replace the kitchen AND floors, yet they couldn't come up with the depoist/rent I just thought it shifty and didn't go ahead with the tenancy - turns out they were very shifty indeed!!! What area did this happen ?


 
Clare. I don't want to be any more specific than that. If it sounds very familar, please pm me. 
The couple have their post now and have given a forwarding address. No money yet.


----------



## minion (26 Dec 2008)

MissThing said:


> A couple of years ago I almost rented to a couple who, prior to signing the lease and paying deposit and rent said they wanted to replace the kitchen AND floors, yet they couldn't come up with the depoist/rent I just thought it shifty and didn't go ahead with the tenancy - turns out they were very shifty indeed!!! What area did this happen ?



I believe i may have met this same couple last year.  In Swords.  I too got a funny feeling and told them to sling their hooks.


----------

