# Where to find original plans for a house?



## beetroot (12 Jul 2011)

Hi can anyone tell me where I could get a copy of the original plans of an estate house (build around 1985), would the local County Council planning office have a copy? I'm looking into getting an extension to the house and the architect / builder is requesting a copy so he can base his plans off.
Thanks.


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## kkelliher (12 Jul 2011)

unlikely any council will have plans for that period available. You can see if they have them archived but you will have to pay I am sure to get them if they do. It should be easy enough for the house to be plotted in any event at this stage and plans could be done from there.


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## beetroot (12 Jul 2011)

Thanks, yeah a figure of 300 - 400 was mentioned to get them done up again, does this sound about right?


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## onq (12 Jul 2011)

Hi beetroot,

It is generally bad practice for any designer to base a new design on drawings that are over thirty years old.
Many things could have happened to the house during that period, including extensions, demolitions and additions and a proper survey should be carried out.
The original drawings may be useful for comparison purposes, but a new extension should always start with very recent "as built" [not planning] drawings or a current survey drawing.

Of course, you will have to pay him to survey the house, but you'll have to pay him to read whatever file and make sure its the right set of drawings.
You may find that certain conditions have not been met in relation to your property and he may have to rectify matters under planning law.
Equally, the time for enforcement may have passed and you may be well-advised to let sleeping dogs lie - but follow his advices.

=======================

That having been said, in relation to the information you are looking for three place spring to mind.

*1. The original architect*

Architects are a collegiate lot and would not mind forwarding copies of drawings of that vintage to a newer practice.

*2. The Local Authority*

I am researching a  file going back to 1985 at the moment and have been told that this  information may be available in electronic form at the local authority  offices.

*3. The Architectural Archive

*Some firms have deposited drawings there for posterity, and they persist even when the original architects files have disappeared or been shredded.
I searched for and found a set of drawings there for an extension of a similar vintage to your house and they showed the full extent of the works including notation for the builder on construction drawings.

=======================

For the record, there is no such thing as an architect/builder.
You can have architect-developers and architect-project managers, not architect-builders.
The RIAI Form of Contract places the architect as the administrator of  the contract between the Employer [the Client] and the Builder [Main Contractor].
Thus, for him to act as a builder would be a conflict of interest and against code of  conduct.
Perhaps Docarch or Threebedsemi could clarify if I am misleading you here.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

      All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be         relied                        upon                                                                                                                as   a                  defence       or                support   -            in               and        of                    itself    -                                should                            legal                              action                be                               taken.
      Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                    advise        in                                                                                                                       Real           Life          with               rights      to                      inspect            and                    issue                             reports             on                the                                           matters           at                              hand.


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## beetroot (12 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the replies, I'm very grateful, we've just started to look into the possibility of extending our house and contacted a firm comprising of an architect, engineer, builder (one stop shop). So the architect came round to look at the site and is to to come back with a rough set of plans and an estimate (we have made no commitment to anyone yet). So the architect has asked for a set of original plans and before we go and pay someone 300 / 400 to do new ones I want to try to track down the originals (if possible). One other question onq will we need to get the plans drawn up anyway (if we don't go with this firm and employ an independant architect?). Thanks again.


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## onq (12 Jul 2011)

beetroot,

You're very welcome.
In my opinion you can do nothing properly without a set of drawings
Even where there is no planning requirement you should get a full set of plans drawn up, as they facilitate -


the designers' collective consideration of the health and safety aspects of their work
the architect's investigation of the design potential of the house
the recording of the various client instructions regarding the design
the presentation of intermediate design proposals to satisfy the client's brief
the architect's presentation of the finalized extension(s) and the overall design
 the engineer's assessment of the structural forces in the existing house and how the various structural solutions affect these
 the costing of the proposed works and making good to the existing  by the builder
the consideration by the main contractor of the health and safety requirements in carrying out the building work.
together with the site plan, the planning of the location(s) site compound and delivery point(s) during the various stages of the build
the graphical presentation of safety information during the work for the site operatives and tradespeople.
Going down the route you are on of relying on the original planning drawings is a false economy for the reasons stated above and in the previous post.
The act of surveying the property familiarizes the professionals with the building intimately and helps focus their minds on the work.
Them not doing so is like an actor thinking he's going to give an Oscar-winning performance without rehearsal - he won't.
The professional firm aren't telling you this to your face is because they are afraid of not winning the work.
I'd suggest you allow €500 for the survey work to pay people a reasonable level of fees.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

      All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be          relied                        upon                                                                                                                  as   a                  defence       or                support   -             in               and        of                    itself    -                                 should                            legal                               action                be                                taken.
      Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to                     advise        in                                                                                                                         Real           Life          with               rights      to                       inspect            and                    issue                              reports             on                the                                            matters           at                               hand.


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## beetroot (13 Jul 2011)

Great thanks again for the help, had a look through some of your old posts last night (am a lot better informed now)


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## onq (13 Jul 2011)

You're very welcome beetroot.  Good to hear you did some reading on AAM which is intended as an online resource. The regulars in most of the forums respond pretty quickly, but now its the holiday season and not all are around all the time. That's why we have the archive search and retrieval system in place, and its also why we ask that thread starters post good descriptive titles and responders try to keep threads on topic - it allows you find relevant past posts more quickly.  [your own thread title in this case is a good example]

ONQ.  

[broken link removed]  

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.


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## Bronte (22 Jul 2011)

You never know but the solicitor who handled the sale might have a copy.  Also a neighbour might have them.


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## RKQ (23 Jul 2011)

What sort of Architect / Designer will design an extension but won't survey the property? Its a bit like your new Dentist refusing to take an x-ray but asking you to provide an x-ray from twenty years ago!

I would never relie on "original drawings" as your house will not be 100% exactly the same, especially since 1985.

Get the Architect /Designer to survey your house and then design the extension. Personaly I find carrying out the survey can help open up possibilities for the design. So when I'm on site I'm actually going through 101 design ideas.


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