# Court Summons for speeding offence



## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

Hi, last September I received a  speeding fine with a picture of my reg and details of my speeding offence 84km in a 50km zone. I went to pay it before the 30 days or so expired and couldn't find the letter/fine anywhere. I rang up the Guarda station that I thought issued the fine and spoke to a Guard there who searched my reg details, he said no fine was issued against my reg. I asked him if his system was the only computer system that this would have been shown on and he said yes. I said what should I do now then as I had only a day or so to pay it and he said forget it, maybe you have a bad memory and you think you got a fine but didn't, its not showing on the system so chances are it got missed off at some administration point and never appeared against my reg. I said ok then if there is no details to be found I can't pay it. I asked this Guard again just to be certain if the computer system he was looking at was the main system and he said yes, he named out when I bought the car, the name of the dealer, the details of when I  reported an incident when someone knocked of my wing mirror 3 years ago and nothing else had been registered  since then.

Today a Guard called and served a summons on me to appear in court.
What do I do first, do I call the Guarda station now and explain or just go to court and explain?


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## bond-007 (24 Mar 2007)

Don't waste your time going anywhere near the gardai as they will not care. Your best bet is go to court and explain or hire a lawyer to do it for you. A good bit of lawyering might get the case dismissed.


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## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

I phoned the Guarda station just a few minutes ago. It's the other side of the country as I was at home with parents at the time. Guard checked and said that the speeding offence was showing on their system now. I explained what had happened and he said that he couldnt see what exact date the speeding offence was registered on their system and that I would have to go to court now. I mentioned the Guard that I spoke to and would he be able to verify what he had told me and this Guard said no, the guard I spoke to obvously would NOT appear in court. (How nieve am I??)
Thanks for reply, yes Guards are not that interested. I have the name of the Guard that I spoke to originally and I can show my phone bill with date I phoned the Guard but as for the conversation that took place, well its only my word I guess.
Worried about the cost of getting solicitor, do people represent themselves in cases like this or do you really need a solicitor?


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## bond-007 (24 Mar 2007)

If you represent yourself the chances are the judge will fine you and slap 4 points on your licence. That said the same could happen even if you are represented by a lawyer. Chances are a solicitor could mittigate the fine. 

It is really up to you at the end of the day.


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## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

Ok, thanks. Does anyone know how much the potential fine could be as oposed to how much it will cost me to engage a solicitor? How many points are you allowed on your licence before its revoked and will 4 points affect my insurance?


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## bond-007 (24 Mar 2007)

12 points in 3 years will cause you to loose your license.
Max fine is €800 but generally it's in the region of €200-300.
As for your insurance it depends, some will allow you up to 6 points without penalty others are less tolerant. Depends on the company.


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## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

Thanks 007, have been thinking about this all afternoon (plus what the neighbours must be thinking !!?) Since I comitted the offence, I should get the penalty points and I think I'd rather pay the court directly than a solicitor. I can't prove that I tired to pay nor that the Guard told me to forget it, it was my negligance that I lost the original letter in the first place. With my luck I'd get a fine anyways plus have to pay the solicitor on top.
I appreciate your replys, thanks. Been worried all afternoon but feel better now, 200 euro is not so bad. Just a thought, does this offence/judgement go against me in any other way, what register does it show under. It's civil rather than criminal right?


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## bond-007 (24 Mar 2007)

It's a criminal conviction so you will show up on pulse (police computer) if you ever got stopped again. Sorry.


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## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

Oh sugar, criminal???? Would I have got a criminal record if I had been able to pay it in the first place or is it only 'criminal' after going to court and getting a judgement passed?


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## bond-007 (24 Mar 2007)

You are correct.


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## Fiona (24 Mar 2007)

Well in that case I think I need a solicitor *cries*


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## Ravima (25 Mar 2007)

not only that Fiona, when you get solicitor ask about YOU serving witness summons on the Garda whom you spoke with first day and who told you there was nothing registered against you. Assuming that he remembers, his testimony may assist you. I say 'Assuming' as you migth find s/he does not recall the conversation at all. However, even if that is the case, there would be a record on the system in Garda Station computer as whenever Garda signs on to do a search/check, s/he must enter badge/id number.


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## bond-007 (25 Mar 2007)

Are members of the Gardai obliged to comply with a witness summons?


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## Fiona (25 Mar 2007)

Witness Summons. Right but should I try to speak to the original Guard that told me to forget it. We had quite a long conversation as I was worried if I didn't pay it what would happen and that there might be another database with  details of my fine that he could not see. He reassured me that there wasn't and if it wasn't on the system that he was looking at (pulse?) that it didn't exist. He joked with me that I might have been loosing my mind ha ha, (not very funny now) Would he have wrote any details of our conversation in the book? 

The speeding fine and summons has been issued by the traffic Guards, not the Guards at the local station and the Guard yesterday in the station told me to call the Guard who issued the summons. Do you think if I talk to her and explain she might understand.......?? Doubt it! Is it worth writing my details to the Guarda Ombudsman? Could they help me prove that the record was not there at the time I called by getting a system log of events or am I barking up the wrong tree?


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## MidlandsBase (25 Mar 2007)

If you got a notification then the offence was stored on the Garda system. As someone who is very familiar with their application I can only presume that the Garda who handled your phone call did not look up the FCPS screen for your offence details and instead looked up your reg no where FCPS details are not stored against until a summons application has been made. The incomptenence of this Garda has cost you the opportunity to make a payment. For future queries I suggest to people to ring the National Payments Processing Office in Capel Street. They handle just FCPS queries so you know you are onto the people who at least are doing a correct search!


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## Ravima (25 Mar 2007)

everyone is obliged to recognise a witness summons. it is issued by the Court and it is the court that demands your attnendance.

I woudl think that if a garda failed to appear on foot of a sumons, the garda Commissioner would be interested in the case!


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## MidlandsBase (25 Mar 2007)

The court only issues a summons to a witness on foot of a request from the Garda. The Court Service have no input into the contents of a summons  or who is being summoned other than the venue/date/time of the court case and the eventual court outcome. If you need to summon a garda as a witness then you need to make this application at a garda station but as the summons has already gone out this may be too late but worth trying.


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## kiwifruit (25 Mar 2007)

sounds like an awful lot of hullaballou and hassle ,if you ask me..
just turn up,pay the fine,maybe 200 euro and probably 4 penalty points and get on with life.no-one is going to jail and its not as if you will be stopped from going to the states on hols in the future..
dont worry  be happy


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## Fiona (26 Mar 2007)

Midlandbase, thanks for that. So it was quite possibly on the system when I rang and he just didn't look in the right place. I am going to give him a call anyways and see if he remembers, if so he might feel guilty and explain to the Traffic Guard and consequently she may 'forget' to appear in court (??!!) 
Kiwifruit, your right but it's a biggie for me. I deserve the points/fine but I don't deserve a record. How long does the record last for, is it with you for life?
Also I have an UK licence as I used to live there and never got it renewed. Will I have to get an Irish licence now before the court date?


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## bond-007 (26 Mar 2007)

No. They won't be able to apply points to your UK licence. What will happen is that they will apply the points to a virtual irish licence and the points will be kept dormant until such time as you apply for an irish licence or a system is devised to apply points to UK drivers. No need to get an irish licence for the moment. Sadly, the record is there for life but after 5 years or so it won't matter much.


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## Fiona (26 Mar 2007)

Thanks again 007. 
I called the Court Clerk and explained situation. I mentioned the name of the Guard that told me to forget about it and mentioned serving a witness summons on him and just my luck, he apparently doesn't work there anymore! So, I was advised to write down all my details, send original note I made with Guards name on it and telephone bill showing call to station for the judges attention. The judge may read it before court .....who knows? Will go see a solicitor when I'm at home next time. Thanks everyone, apart from the record I'm not looking forward to my name in the local paper much either !!


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## MidlandsBase (26 Mar 2007)

Fiona said:


> Midlandbase, thanks for that. So it was quite possibly on the system when I rang and he just didn't look in the right place.


 
Hi Fiona,
If you got a notification then it was absolutely on the system when you rang. It is stored on the Garda database when created and then the details are sent across to a 3rd party print provider to then print and post out.


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## Fiona (26 Mar 2007)

Arrrrgh! Makes me so mad.


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