# Why do people have children?



## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Just wondering about peoples thoughts on this.

Neither myself or OH find ourselves really yearning to have children, we like children but we just dont feel a 'need' to reproduce. We both enjoy our lives and the freedoms that we have. When we talk about children we always seem to come around to thinking that it sounds (and looks) like very hard work and that we like life the way it is.

Both of us know people with children who really wanted to have children and seem to love being parents, we also both know people who had children and (one or both) seem to not like being a parent (just as an example one father we know gets up on a saturday morning to drop his child off at grannies so he can come home and lie on the couch playing playstation all day by himself while his missus is in work).

I wonder how many people really think it through and how many just have children because thats what people tend to do when they get married?

I also dont get the broody feeling when I see a baby, I have other friends who dont get it either, but one friend who never got it did have a child and she loves being a mother - so not sure if the broody feeling is a reliable indicator.

Any thoughts? For people who have children - why did you have them?
For people who dont - why would you have them?


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## Caveat (12 Jan 2009)

I don't think there will ever be an easy answer to this one - many parents will say that those without children "don't know what they're missing" or even that they are "selfish".

Many of those without children can also describe parents as being "selfish" too - having kids on a whim to fill gaps in their lives etc.

Some people certainly seem to have kids as a habit or because it's the 'thing to do' - and I think it is this mindset that those without kids find so difficult to fathom. Also, undoubtedly, there are many more who have children through maternal/paternal drive - which can be equally difficult to understand for those who do not have that drive.

We're in the same position as you _Truthseeker_ - no kids, and we don't want any. Most of our friends have kids and although they are good parents and love their children, some have admitted that it was the wrong decision.

Maybe we'll regret not having kids some day (many seem to) but that's no reason for us to start a family either.


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## Purple (12 Jan 2009)

I have three kids (with another on the way) and while it’s hard work and it does have a negative impact in many aspects of your life the positives more than make up for the negatives. That said I wanted to have children and so did Mrs. Purple. I don’t really know what the answer to your question is. I suppose it’s a case of doing what’s right for you. Selfishness doesn’t come into it.


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## Caveat (12 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> Selfishness doesn’t come into it.


 
Just to clarify, it is not my opinion that it is selfish - was just commenting that this is often what is said.


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## DeeFox (12 Jan 2009)

I don't have children yet but am in a long term relationship.  I'm not a "child person" in the sense that I don't go goo gaa over babies and tend to find children boring but I do think that I will have children in the next few years.  Am I telling myself the lie all possible parents tell themselves?  My children will be different?  Maybe...
My main reasons would be that I think they will enrich my life and I would like to have my own family.  I would like to experience pregnancy and then to see this little person develop and grow.  I am in my early thirties and have had years of putting myself first so I don't think I would resent the lack of freedom and spontaneity to my life.  I am not particularly career minded and so putting my career on the back burner wouldn't bother me.  I am conscious of leaving it "too late" - I would hate to wake up at 40 and to then want a family. Or to have left enough time only to have one child as I think siblings are very important.  So, therefore it is entirely possible that I will plan to have children without feeling broody and hope that it all falls into place afterwards...


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> ....and it does have a negative impact in many aspects of your life the positives more than make up for the negatives.


 
What do you mean by 'the positives' Purple (im assuming the 'negatives' are demands on time and money)?
And when you say you wanted to have children - why did you want to have them?


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## casiopea (12 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Just wondering about peoples thoughts on this.
> 
> Neither myself or OH find ourselves really yearning to have children, we like children but we just dont feel a 'need' to reproduce. We both enjoy our lives and the freedoms that we have. When we talk about children we always seem to come around to thinking that it sounds (and looks) like very hard work and that we like life the way it is.
> 
> ...



Hi Truthseeker.  

Really interesting post. In many ways you sound a lot like me.  I was never a broody person, I like children but never got broody around babies and never felt the "clock ticking" (am female by the way).  I loved my life, the adventures I was having as a single person and then couple - I just didnt see where a baby fitted.  I also was really concerned about the impact on my career if I had a baby.  When my friends had babies I was pleased for them but not envious.  When I sat down and thought about it, I felt my life was fine without babies.  However the time did come when my other half really wanted children.  Needless to say this took lots discussion between my other half and I and the outcome was that we would try and get pregnant.  I then subsequently had lots of trouble getting pregnant, which is not relevant to this thread, but I was surprised (for someone who still claimed not to be broody) how heartbroken I was by lost pregnancies.  Anyways, we did get successfully pregnant and we were lucky enough to have a little girl and I have to say I am simply blown away by her.  I never expected to feel like this.  I knew I would love my baby but I wasnt expecting to get so much back.  She is such a little character and so very funny.  For me all of sudden I am excited about sharing the life, I referred to above, with her - I dont see it as an end of that life.  Its very hard to talk about your child without sounding like a book of clichés or without sounding like you are trying to convince the rest of the planet to reproduce (and those people annoyed me when I wasnt planning a family) which is partly why I think people only focus on the negative.  In short the negatives dont even register on the radar there are so many positives (very cheesy).

In regards to the negatives, they do exist. However no big achievement comes without its challenges (there is some famous quote that captures that sentiment better but I cant remember it right now).  In short - if I decide to do a parttime MBA I know I have 2 years of study and I have to give up weekends for the foreseeable future. If I decide to climb Mount Everest I know I have to do a ridiculous about of fitness and endurance training to be ready for it. If I decide to have a baby I know I will have sleepless nights, teething problems, possibly toddler issues and later then teenage issues - you sign up for it - if that makes any sense.  Its a challenge you need to commit to and the return is more worth it.

I think the most important thing is to keep communicating with your partner on this - thinking and talking about it is a good thing.  Deciding not to have children is just as important/relevant as deciding to have children. If you both decide that you will have children as an ex-non-broody woman I can really recommend it


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## Vanilla (12 Jan 2009)

I always wanted children, have always loved babies and I would have had more but for the fact that I met and married Mr.V a little too late to have more than two. Mr.V is the same- always wanted children. Everyone is different but babies always make me melt. That doesnt mean I think people who don't have children are missing out, people are different, want different things- and I can SO appreciate that a life without children can be just as fulfilling. 

Whatever about the actual decision to have children selfishness goes right out the window for most people once you have them because once you have a baby they then become the person you put before yourself ( in a way that you wouldnt for anyone else, even your partner) at all times.


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

casiopea said:


> Deciding not to have children is just as important/relevant as deciding to have children.


 
Excellent post casiopea - you have hit the nail on the head (for me) with the above quoted sentence - I do feel its just as important to make the decision not to.

I agree with all you say about how much a child enriches life - I have seen this with many friends. But I have also seen scenarios where people dont seem so enriched. (Obviously it depends on the person).

I dont want to reach a point where my clock has ticked on and regret not having them either..... Im at the decision making time - we are getting married later this year and realistically if we are to have children we would need to start cracking on after we get married (assuming no problems conceiving etc....).

What do people think the downsides of not having children are?


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## Mpsox (12 Jan 2009)

I was 38 when me and Mrs Sox had our smallie. Until I got married at age 36, I had never really seen myself becoming a father, it was just something I had never really considerd

Why did we have kids? To be honest, I can't say there is a definite reasons, we had kids because............ We just did. 

Our first attempt wasn't successful and we lost it at 14 weeks, I still remember being in the Coombe that night as the nurse did the Ultrasound and there was nothing there, horrible feeling

I also remember 12 months later myself and my wife being in a car crash, (she was 6 months gone at the time), again heading for the Coombe, waiting for the scan in terror and the joy of seeing a little hand waving at us as if to say, "I'm fine, relax". I know that's daft but that's what it seemed like

On Stephens Day this year, we were down at my sisters, my wife was changing a nappy when I walked into the bedroom, the smallie looked at me, pointed and gave us a big loud Da Da and then spent the rest of the day pointing at me and going Da Da everytime she saw me. Best Christmas present I ever had

Ever night when I go home and open the front door, there's an "aah" from the living room and a small girl rushes out and hugs my knees. Makes my day and that to me is reason enough to have smallies


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## TarfHead (12 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> What do people think the downsides of not having children are?


 
If you have no kids, then you only have your OH to have rows with.

With kids, there's a greater choice  !


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## lou2 (12 Jan 2009)

For me, the downside of not having children would be the regret that I think I would feel later in life....I always wanted to have children 'someday'. I'm in my early to mid thirties now and am very aware of the ticking clock to the extent that it keeps me awake at night. If it were an ideal world, I would love to have children in about 5 years time but realistically I think that would be leaving it a little late to _start_ trying to conceive as two of my friends who are either pregnant or just gave birth both had to go through IVF (they are the same age as me). I am also missing one important component at the moment...a partner! I may meet someone in the next year or two that I want to start a family with but I may not either. I don't want to 'settle' for someone just so I can start a family.  I also don't want to not have a child that I feel would be much wanted and loved just because I haven't found the right person for me _at that stage. _I have been looking in to the whole concept of 'choice motherhood' and am amazed at the range of reactions of people to this, ranging from disbelief to disgust. Selfishness is a word bandied about with incredible frequency. 

I also have some friends (women) who are childless and past the age to have children. My married friends always look at them in a sympathetic way as they never had children but most of them are prefectly happy not to have them. It's such a prersonal experience. To each their own. in my opinion.


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Interesting responses. 

While I accept that when the children are born nature takes over and its a fantastic experience (for most) - no one seems to have a reason why they did it in the first place.

When someone says they want to have children - why do they want to?

Mpsox - most people I have asked personally have said what you said 'we just did'. 

Lou2 - Im interested in what you say about regretting it in later life if you didnt - I wonder that too, but if I had a rich life and good relationships with people then would that not fulfill me as a person?

I think choice motherhood is a great idea. If I definitely wanted children (for whatever reason) and my clock was ticking and I was single I would certainly consider it.

Another question that himself and myself have bandied about is this - if we did want children why bring new children into an already overcrowded world, why not adopt a child who needs a home? 
Whats the key here - do people want to have their own children or are they happy to have the experience of raising a child without it being their biological child?


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## Purple (12 Jan 2009)

Caveat said:


> Just to clarify, it is not my opinion that it is selfish - was just commenting that this is often what is said.


Yes, I took it that way (I didn't think it was your opinion).


truthseeker said:


> What do you mean by 'the positives' Purple (im assuming the 'negatives' are demands on time and money)?
> And when you say you wanted to have children - why did you want to have them?


I think that casiopea has put it better than I could have.


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## sandrat (12 Jan 2009)

re adopting there is an age cut off of i think 35 for adopting in Ireland


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

sandrat said:


> re adopting there is an age cut off of i think 35 for adopting in Ireland


 
We are (for the moment) just speaking hypothetically. What Im trying to get at is : Is it the experience of raising a child (any child) or creating your own biological child that people want when they say they want children?


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## Cahir (12 Jan 2009)

I've never had a desire to have kids even though I'm at the age where my biological clock should be ticking.  Sure, kids can be cute but it's a relief to hand them back after 5 or 10 minutes.

My other half wants kids "in a few years" but definitely not yet.  He doesn't understand that a few years will probably be too late so I've accepted that I won't ever have kids and I just hope it's not something I regret in later life.


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## Caveat (12 Jan 2009)

My guess is that your own biological child is the preference by far.

As regards the 'why' - I think as above, the existance or not of maternal/paternal drive is the main factor - there is often no other real objective explanation. I think it is for this reason that those who don't want kids often 'just don't' and those that do, 'just do'


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Caveat said:


> My guess is that your own biological child is the preference by far.
> 
> As regards the 'why' - I think as above, the existance or not of maternal/paternal drive is the main factor - there is often no other real objective explanation. I think it is for this reason that those who don't want kids often 'just don't' and those that do, 'just do'


 
I think you might be right Caveat. It does seem that the 'why' is more about maternal/paternal drive rather than other reasons.

I was wondering if people would answer with other reasons, but perhaps there are no other reasons (besides doing it because thats what people do - doing it without thinking about it I suppose).

I feel the same way as you do about doing it in case you regret it not being a good enough reason for doing it.

I am definitely inclined to think that having children is a more positive experience than it is a negative one but considering that Im already having quite a positive experience of life, and there are things that Id like to do that having a family would make very difficult to do (nothing mad, just personal freedom) and I dont seem to have a maternal drive then perhaps Im in a good position to consider NOT.

But will I regret it later?
What is the nature of regret for not having children? I should have had children because.........? Because what?


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## Ciaraella (12 Jan 2009)

Caveat said:


> As regards the 'why' - I think as above, the existance or not of maternal/paternal drive is the main factor - there is often no other real objective explanation. I think it is for this reason that those who don't want kids often 'just don't' and those that do, 'just do'


 
I'd agree about a maternal/paternal drive, for me it's like i have a physical craving to have a child, i'm 26 and a new home owner so it's not possible to have kids (financially) for a couple of years but i still feel a very strong physical longing to have kids, I suppose what most people would call broodiness. Most of my friends and family would describe me as being 'mammyish' anyway so for me not having children would never have been my choice anyway.


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Ciaraella said:


> I'd agree about a maternal/paternal drive, for me it's like i have a physical craving to have a child, i'm 26 and a new home owner so it's not possible to have kids (financially) for a couple of years but i still feel a very strong physical longing to have kids, I suppose what most people would call broodiness. Most of my friends and family would describe me as being 'mammyish' anyway so for me not having children would never have been my choice anyway.


 
So Ciaraella, lets just say (hypothetical situation), that you didnt meet a partner until you were past the age for having children - would you feel your life was less fulfilled than it could have been?


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## Ciaraella (12 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> So Ciaraella, lets just say (hypothetical situation), that you didnt meet a partner until you were past the age for having children - would you feel your life was less fulfilled than it could have been?


 

Yes I think definitley I would feel my life was less fulfilled but I'd stress that would be me personally. I think i'd find someway to care for a child, for example if I was past the age of adoption I'd think about fostering, I think I just have an urge to nurture!


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## truthseeker (12 Jan 2009)

Ciaraella said:


> Yes I think definitley I would feel my life was less fulfilled but I'd stress that would be me personally. I think i'd find someway to care for a child, for example if I was past the age of adoption I'd think about fostering, I think I just have an urge to nurture!


 
Thanks Ciaraella, thats an interesting perspective - I dont feel the 'need' to care for a child in the same way - maybe this is why Im having difficulty relating to the maternal instinct!!


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## Caveat (12 Jan 2009)

DeeFox said:


> I'm not a "child person" ... and tend to find children boring


 
Why do I get an image of the Joanna Lumley character from Absolutely Fabulous?


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## Purple (12 Jan 2009)

caveat said:


> why do i get an image of the joanna lumley character from absolutely fabulous?


Lol


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## Birroc (12 Jan 2009)

Cahir said:


> My other half wants kids "in a few years" but definitely not yet. He doesn't understand that a few years will probably be too late so I've accepted that I won't ever have kids and I just hope it's not something I regret in later life.


 
No offence I hope but the 2 of you should probably talk about it now. His misunderstanding might lead to bitterness in future years.


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## becky (12 Jan 2009)

I too never had the maternal 'anything' and have no interest and I mean no interest in anyones baby. 

I was in in a meeting one day and just before it started some people were wondering if such and such had a baby. I happened to meet someone who was gushing about it to me earlier so mentioned that yes such and such did have the baby.

I was then asked was it a girl or a boy and even what weight it was...wasn't enough that I was able to tell them that she had the baby......hadn't a clue of course.

I really like kids though, once they can speak and go to the toilet by themselves.


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## Purple (12 Jan 2009)

becky said:


> I too never had the maternal 'anything' and have no interest and I mean no interest in anyones baby.
> 
> I was in in a meeting one day and just before it started some people were wondering if such and such had a baby.  I happened to meet someone who was gushing about it to me earlier so mentioned that yes such and such did have the baby.
> 
> ...


I hate going out for the evening with a group of people who just talk about their kids. I don't want to talk about mine when I'm out, let alone anyone else’s.


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## Sue Ellen (12 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> I have three kids (with another on the way)



Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Purple.


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## Vanilla (13 Jan 2009)

Sue Ellen said:


> Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Purple.


 

Almost missed this- congratulations Purple, great news. 



P.S. four is nice...but why stop there?


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## Purple (13 Jan 2009)

Sue Ellen said:


> Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Purple.





Vanilla said:


> Almost missed this- congratulations Purple, great news.


Thanks very much. 




Vanilla said:


> P.S. four is nice...but why stop there?


Who said we will?


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## efm (13 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> I hate going out for the evening with a group of people who just talk about their kids. I don't want to talk about mine when I'm out, let alone anyone else’s.


 
Wow I bet you have some great conversations with your friends 

Friend 1: - So Purple, how are the kids?

Purple: - Don't want to talk about it

Friend 2: - Say, I see Mrs P is expecting again - you looking forward to it?

Purple: - Don't want to talk about it

Friend 3: What do you have again - all boys or all girls?

Purple: - Don't want to talk about it

Friend 1: - So, you bringing the kids on holidays this year?

Purple: - Don't want to talk about it

Friend 1, 2, 3: ......hmmmm must be trouble at home


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## DavyJones (13 Jan 2009)

Does anybody really decide they want kids?

There I was thinking they just happened!.

 I dislike other peoples kids and like Purple (congrats by the way and best of Luck) I hate when people bore me with the details of their childrens lifes. HELLO I DON'T CARE.

I have two little kiddies of my own whom I adore. My wife and I always said we would have kids but never sat down and planned them. When My wife (girlfriend at the time) told me she was pregnant, she cried and I thought it wasn't the worst thing. Funny when she told me the second time, she was grand and I cried .

It changed our life no end, we moved from London, gave up  great jobs and a profitable business. social  life went from being full on to full off. When the second one arrived I thought it can't be all that different, well I was wrong, it got harder. Back to sleepless nights and impossible to get a babysitter to look after a baby that refuses to sleep.

On the plus side my first is over two and when she calls me Daddy, my heart melts, I went to see her at her play school Christmas play and she shook her jingle bells the bestest. My youngest has stopped puking on me (for the moment) which is nice.

There are so many positives it is impossible to list them all. I would never have seen myself as a childrens person but when they are your own it is completely different. In my experiance having kids has focused my mind and everything I do now is for them and our future.

Our youngest is six months and we have already started talking about maybe a 3rd, but in a couple of years time. yeah right, whats the betting in a couple of months I'll be one of those people other people hate when I announce that we are pregnant


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## sandrat (13 Jan 2009)

my 8 month old hasn't stopped puking on me yet!


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## Towger (13 Jan 2009)

efm said:


> Wow I bet you have some great conversations with your friends
> 
> Friend 1: - So Purple, how are the kids?
> 
> ...


 
Friend 4: Wont it be great to have the wife at home of 6 months and getting the few bob tax free from the state.

Purple: - Face turning purple. Gurrr, thats whats gotten this country into the state it is in. If my wife thinks she can put get feet up for the best part of the year and sponge off the state she has another thing comming. Back to work after 5 days, I say and those 5 days will be comming out of her holidays. As for paternity leave, she will be lucy if my company can afford the price of a phone call to see if it is boy or girl.


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## Towger (13 Jan 2009)

sandrat said:


> my 8 month old hasn't stopped puking on me yet!


 
Have you tried changing the milk?


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## gabsdot (13 Jan 2009)

I always knew I would have children, from when I was a child.  
When DH and I got married we agreed we'd have 6 or 7 kids. It didn't happen like that for us though and it was 10 years later when our son arrived, through adoption, (BTW there is no age limit for adoption in Ireland)

When we first learned that we were not going to be able to have children ourselves, it was the worst day of my life and was followed by 6 years of more worst days until our son arrived. The desire to be a mother was a physical need for me and when it didn't happen I was heartbroken literally. It's like a bereavement. I could not have imagined living out the rest of my life without children. 

Now that my son is growing up I find that I do not regret or miss the fact that  I did not give birth to him.  My desire to be a  mother did not include a huge desire to be pregnant. 

I fell in love with my son within an hour of meeting him, he was 6 months old. He has been a joy to us every day since, he's now 5. I couldn't have imagined how much fun being a parent would be and how happy it would make me. 

Being a parent has also been great for my social life. I've made loads of new friends through parent and toddler groups, Montessori school and now primary school, football, swimming, gymnastics and of course within the adoption community. 

Our circle of friends has changed though and it's always easier to hang out with other people who have kids so we can bore each other by talking about our own. I know people who don't have kids find that really boring. 

Because I always had such a strong desire to have children I find it hard to understand when people don't want to have kids. But I respect it.


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## Carpenter (13 Jan 2009)

DavyJones said:


> I dislike other peoples kids and like Purple (congrats by the way and best of Luck) I hate when people bore me with the details of their childrens lifes. HELLO I DON'T CARE.



I think it's a man thing, we're really only interested in our own kids!  I remember Ardal O'Hanlon saying something to this effect when he was interviewed on TV a couple of years ago; pretty much sums up my feelings- I'm mad about my own kids and our "family unit" but not really interested in anyone elses and certainly wouldn't want to spend a (rare) social evening talking about "the kids".  Remember working with a (selfish/ narcissus type) guy who would bore the pants off me going on and on about his precious first born but when I later came to have a couple of children of my own he couldn't have been less interested!


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## sandrat (13 Jan 2009)

Towger said:


> Have you tried changing the milk?


nope its more the solids than the milk she is breastfed so not changing the milk!


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## Purple (14 Jan 2009)

efm said:


> Wow I bet you have some great conversations with your friends
> 
> Friend 1: - So Purple, how are the kids?
> 
> ...





Towger said:


> Friend 4: Wont it be great to have the wife at home of 6 months and getting the few bob tax free from the state.
> 
> Purple: - Face turning purple. Gurrr, thats whats gotten this country into the state it is in. If my wife thinks she can put get feet up for the best part of the year and sponge off the state she has another thing comming. Back to work after 5 days, I say and those 5 days will be comming out of her holidays. As for paternity leave, she will be lucy if my company can afford the price of a phone call to see if it is boy or girl.


Very funny guys.
Mrs. Purple is self employed so she will (according to herself; I have no say in the matter)be taking 4-6 weeks maternity leave. 
While she is entitled to maternity benefit she will still be drawing an income from her business so we have decided that it would be unethical to claim for leave that she is not really taking.

So... basically... you’re right!


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## Ancutza (14 Jan 2009)

I guess you'll only ever find out why people have kids once you have one of your own.  Nothing will ever compare to the joy of it and I mean absolutely NOTHING!


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## AlbacoreA (14 Jan 2009)

A good 8 hrs sleep would be something though...


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## tink (14 Jan 2009)

Cahir said:


> I've never had a desire to have kids even though I'm at the age where my biological clock should be ticking. Sure, kids can be cute but it's a relief to hand them back after 5 or 10 minutes.
> 
> My other half wants kids "in a few years" but definitely not yet. He doesn't understand that a few years will probably be too late so I've accepted that I won't ever have kids and I just hope it's not something I regret in later life.


 
Hi Cahir from your post it doesn't come across as its a burning desire but do think about it and make sure you are 100% happy. My aunties sister was with her partner for 20 years and when she was 47 and he wouldn't have kids, then he left her and with a year his new partner was pregnant. This lady is heartbroken that she never had kids now and her sister's child is everything to her. Just make sure you are happy with your (and his) decision


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## truthseeker (15 Jan 2009)

Ancutza said:


> I guess you'll only ever find out why people have kids once you have one of your own. Nothing will ever compare to the joy of it and I mean absolutely NOTHING!


 
Yeah - I can tell that from seeing people with their kids - but because you dont get that joy beforehand - why do people decide to do it in the first place!!!!

There is no answer!


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## Vanilla (15 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Yeah - I can tell that from seeing people with their kids - but because you dont get that joy beforehand - why do people decide to do it in the first place!!!!
> 
> There is no answer!


 
It's because babies are cute.


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## DavyJones (15 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> why do people decide to do it in the first place!!!!



Because they "do it", and then the decision is made for them


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## casiopea (15 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Yeah - I can tell that from seeing people with their kids - but because you dont get that joy beforehand - why do people decide to do it in the first place!!!!
> 
> There is no answer!



There is certainly no "one" answer. Both Vanillas and DavyJones answers are valid.  Some people would say its hormones.  Some say "they just do <want to have children>". Some would say for tradition/cultural reasons. Some would say to look after them in their old age.  Some people yearn to have a family.  Some people want children because they love children and/or loved being a child. Some people may have children simply because they feel its what everyone does, some because they feel its what everyone does next (ie after college, job, house, marraige), Some people have children because it isnt much fun reading a bedstory to their cat etc. etc. etc.

To me it sounds like you are looking for *the* answer to that question but there is no one answer and certainly no one right answer.  

The answer for the question for you - can only be found inside of you.  Sorry for sounding like a hallmark card!


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## truthseeker (15 Jan 2009)

casiopea said:


> There is certainly no "one" answer. Both Vanillas and DavyJones answers are valid.


 
Totally agree!!



casiopea said:


> Some people would say its hormones.


 
Maybe Ive got weird hormones 



casiopea said:


> Some say "they just do <want to have children>".


 
Totally - thats the most common answer when I asked friends who are parents.



casiopea said:


> Some would say for tradition/cultural reasons.


 
Thats an interesting point that I hadnt thought of - it doesnt apply to me personally but certainly its a reason for some people.



casiopea said:


> Some would say to look after them in their old age.


 
This doesnt always work out though - my OPs granny had 3 kids, one passed on 10 years before her, one lives in a different country, only one was around in her old age.



casiopea said:


> Some people want children because they love children and/or loved being a child.


 
Now youre onto something (for me) - I dont think I loved being a child!!!



casiopea said:


> Some people may have children simply because they feel its what everyone does, some because they feel its what everyone does next (ie after college, job, house, marraige)


 
See this one doesnt appeal to me because I feel like its the herd approach - I like to think about what Im doing and why.



casiopea said:


> Some people have children because it isnt much fun reading a bedstory to their cat etc. etc. etc.


 
I do get the gushy feeling for animals...... 



casiopea said:


> To me it sounds like you are looking for *the* answer to that question but there is no one answer and certainly no one right answer.


 
Im always looking for THE answer - Im starting to think I should have done a philosphy degree!!!



casiopea said:


> The answer for the question for you - can only be found inside of you. Sorry for sounding like a hallmark card!


 
I like Hallmark cards 
But seriously - what you say is true. I appreciate the input - Ive found this thread to be very interesting and I must admit I was surprised that there werent more actual reasons - I think the earlier thoughts on paternal/maternal drive hold true to a large degree.

And Ive also learned maybe I overthink things!!


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## casiopea (15 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> and ive also learned maybe i overthink things!!



lol


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## Caveat (15 Jan 2009)

jaybird said:


> I'm a psychology and philosophy student, I know what you mean about over-thinking (and I have 2 children as well!)


 
Ok, so why did you have kids then?


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## truthseeker (15 Jan 2009)

jaybird said:


> I agree that its a very interesting thread alright.
> 
> If you were to look at it from an evolutionary psychology point of view, you would argue that its an inherent drive to propogate our genes. There is an interesting indepth discussion on it here, if you are interested.
> [broken link removed]
> ...


 
Thatd be the Richard Dawkins viewpoint also (which as a card carrying atheist Id go with ) - (havent read the contents of the link yet but will later).

Intellectually though - I dont feel the need to propagate.


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## truthseeker (16 Jan 2009)

Thanks Jaybird, perhaps all this 'maternal/paternal' drive really is just a manifestation of the Selfish Gene?

Im still not 100% sure that I want to - but I also dont want to find myself in a position of it not being my choice in time....tick tock tick tock......

Question for those people who decided not to have children:
Why did you decide not to?


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## Purple (16 Jan 2009)

In the spirit of community with my fellow AAM users if there are any good looking women out there who feel the need to get impregnated I’m available  ,just PM me with a recent photo (you don’t necessarily have to be naked)


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## Vanilla (16 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> In the spirit of community with my fellow AAM users if there are any good looking women out there who feel the need to get impregnated I’m available  ,just PM me with a recent photo (you don’t necessarily have to be naked)


 



Imagine the next generation of AAMers, mini Purples all over the place...no union or civil servant would be safe.


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## Simeon (16 Jan 2009)

Why do people have children? Could be down to physical activity (on their part) about 10 months earlier ........... give or take a couple of weeks


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## S.L.F (16 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> In the spirit of community with my fellow AAM users if there are any good looking women out there who feel the need to get impregnated I’m available  ,just PM me with a recent photo (you don’t necessarily have to be naked)



I must say that is very [broken link removed] of you to do this for your fellow female AAM'ers.


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## Towger (16 Jan 2009)

Purple said:


> if there are any good looking women out there who feel the need to get impregnated I’m available


 

Is this your website ? : http://www.purplepowerboarstud.com/


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## Simeon (16 Jan 2009)

A case of 'two legs good ........ four legs better'


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## Purple (16 Jan 2009)

Towger said:


> Is this your website ? : http://www.purplepowerboarstud.com/


I was expecting porno... I'm a little disappointed.


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## Betsy Og (17 Jan 2009)

Like the old joke says: Kids are like farts, you can just about stand your own. And there's a bit of truth to it.

I think some Mom's & Dad's are a bit over zelous in "selling" the idea, and all the other cynics (most of the population) give their instinctive reaction of recoiling from the "sell". That why I think "pushing" people about having kids is v poor form, or endlessly deluging them with the "wonders" of parenthood is OTT. I used to (gently) slag some of my mates (mainly fellas) re the pitter patter of tiny feet but, due to a thread on here, came to the realisation that even that there no harm intended there might be harm delivered.

So, since anyone on this thread is a willing participant, I'll give my own tuppence. Having kids is great (this is not a sales pitch ), have a little boy and another baby imminent. As a bloke there's a bit less pressure on you to go all gooey and instantaneously bond. While our course I loved our baby from the word go (could I say otherwise??), it did take a little while to "bond" and really connect with him. The first few months is a bit of a slog, so I'm psyched for that again, and there isnt much payback for a while (they wont know you for a good few months). However, once they do it is such a brilliant payback. Not to say that of course you wouldnt persevere even if you didnt get the paybacks, but hey it does feel good.

As to why we decided to have kids, I think it was part of the "picture" we had of happy family life. Many will tell you kids enrich your life (as I would) so why isnt that reason enough? Its said that people have kids for selfish reasons (and then you're selfish if you dont) so you cant win, so dont berate yourself for not being able to objectively prove why you want kids.



A good book to get is "Babyproof your marriage" gives a good insight into the difference that kids make to a marriage.


Other points (since this is too longwinded already):


Ireland isnt overpopulated, so dont worry about the global crisis, you're not going to add to the problem.
You can easily overthink things. Pass many a house and there's kids everywhere and theres nothing extra special about that family but yet they all work out fine. So if you're interested enough to worry about whether its right to have kids you'll do fine raising them.
We both had happy childhoods. But I'm kind of enjoying "re-living" it. Hmm, vicariously living through a 2 1/2 year old, I'm sure theres issues there !!
More anon (TM George Hamilton) no doubt.


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## Complainer (18 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Another question that himself and myself have bandied about is this - if we did want children why bring new children into an already overcrowded world, why not adopt a child who needs a home?


Adopting a child in Ireland is a hundred times more difficult than having your own. There are far more couples seeking children to adopt, than parents giving up their children for adoption. There are a very small number of Irish children being given up for adoption, and there are long waiting lists of Irish couples waiting to adopt. 

This drives many Irish couples abroad to China/Belarus/Guatamala etc for overseas adoptions, though I hear that many of these countries will be closed to Irish parents soon due to regulatory changes (Hague convention, I think). They pay tens of thousands of euro in costs/fees/bureacracy/travel. Adopting is not an easy alternative.

I always expected to be a parent, having spent lots of time around cousins/nieces/nephews. Having a child was not as easy as we expected. It was a five-year journey through infertility treatments, with many  semen analyses, visits to specialists for meself and herself. Even with the best experts, you basically give up your dignity at an early stage and allow yourself to be poked & prodded & tested as you work towards the ultimate goal. It's a strange experience to meet your next-door neighbour outside the IVF clinic in the early morning rush, as there is only thing that a guy goes to an IVF clinic on his own for!  And I had it relatively easy, compared to herself. We were fairly lucky in achieving pregnancy at our first IVF attempt.  heard of one couple who when through 10 unsuccessful attempts (at a minimum cost of €3k a time). My advice to those who want kids down the line is not to assume that you'll be able get pregnant on demand. One in five Irish couples has fertility issues.

There is huge, sheer joy and great fun in having a child, particularly as their personalities develop. The pure unconditional love from both sides is unique. Having said that, I'd confess to breathing a sigh of relief when they go down for the evening, or better still, when they go to a friend's party at the weekend, leaving the parents free to enjoy a couple of hours of adult activities.


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## setanta1 (21 Jan 2009)

Having kids helps you to pass the decades between when you are too old for nightclubs and yet too young for the zimmer frame!


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## Simeon (21 Jan 2009)

Hee hee!


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## Blossy (22 Jan 2009)

Im not sure if this is completely relevant, but as with alot of people, my first child wasnt planned, i was not at all a 'maternal' person, in fact you could over hear me whilst pregnant, giving out abt the trantrum throwing toddler in the supermarkets!! 

For me, having a child is a way to make the world a better place!! now thats hallmark!! 

But its a blank canvas on which to create a perfect person...ok he is 4 and in my eyes always will be perfect!!

But in a selfish way, its a chance to give my son everything i never had, its a chance to relive my childhood, and try not make mistakes that my parent made, its so tough to make the decisions, like, 'do i take second job so he will have all the best, or not work the second job, so i can spend more time, but that time could be spent fighting because all his friends have things that i cant give him, and in both ways the child looses out.

i think the reason for having children is because hopefully, with each new generation, the mistakes of the past will diminish...its really thinking in an ideal world, but i would decide to have another in the hope, he or she can chnage the world in whatever little possible!  halmark!!


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## michaelm (22 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Just wondering about peoples thoughts on this.


The reasons people choose to become parents are many and varied so you won't get a magic bullet answer.  I believe that the overwhelming majority of parents would agree that their kids add immeasurable joy to their lives and that they wouldn't be without them.  On that basis, unless I was totally opposed to (rather than just being unsure about) having children I'd just go for it.


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## S.L.F (23 Jan 2009)

Complainer said:


> I always expected to be a parent, having spent lots of time around cousins/nieces/nephews. Having a child was not as easy as we expected. It was a five-year journey through infertility treatments, with many semen analyses, visits to specialists for meself and herself. Even with the best experts, you basically give up your dignity at an early stage and allow yourself to be poked & prodded & tested as you work towards the ultimate goal. It's a strange experience to meet your next-door neighbour outside the IVF clinic in the early morning rush, as there is only thing that a guy goes to an IVF clinic on his own for! And I had it relatively easy, compared to herself. We were fairly lucky in achieving pregnancy at our first IVF attempt. heard of one couple who when through 10 unsuccessful attempts (at a minimum cost of €3k a time). My advice to those who want kids down the line is not to assume that you'll be able get pregnant on demand. One in five Irish couples has fertility issues.


 
Me and her also went through IVF and it didn't work for us but we sure spent a lot of cash in pursueing it.

Eventually we got lucky one night.

3 months later she fell on her bump.

It frightened both us to death.

She felt nothing for ages and thought that was that so we rushed into Holles St to check what the story was.

I saw the scanner had a dodgey bit on it it was flickering so I asked the nurse what was wrong with the screen she told me the screen was the best money could buy and that the flicker was my childs heart beat.

We d all the way home...

5 and a bit years later....


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## Sue Ellen (24 Jan 2009)

S.L.F said:


> 5 and a bit years later....



You're here tormenting us and leaving us wondering .............


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## S.L.F (24 Jan 2009)

Sue Ellen said:


> You're here tormenting us and leaving us wondering .............


 
Still ing...at least most of the time.

My boy started school last year.

I'll always remember that dodgey flicker on the VDU in the hospital.

It was like a christmas light flickering on and off.

My boy's heart beat......


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## Betsy Og (24 Jan 2009)

Despatch from the Betsy newsroom, Mrs. Betsy gave birth to a strapping boy less than 24 hours ago. Everyone well.

More relaxed this time out, got great view of delivery (not for faint hearted at time, though v normal delivery) and no bother holding & feeding this one. 

Though no doubt there'll be some tough times ahead I can honestly say I'm looking forward to it, when I see first buster bustin around the place its all well worthwhile.


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## DavyJones (24 Jan 2009)

Betsy Og said:


> Despatch from the Betsy newsroom, Mrs. Betsy gave birth to a strapping boy less than 24 hours ago. Everyone well.
> 
> More relaxed this time out, got great view of delivery (not for faint hearted at time, though v normal delivery) and no bother holding & feeding this one.
> 
> Though no doubt there'll be some tough times ahead I can honestly say I'm looking forward to it, when I see first buster bustin around the place its all well worthwhile.




Congrats, Thats great news


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## truthseeker (24 Jan 2009)

Betsy Og said:


> Despatch from the Betsy newsroom, Mrs. Betsy gave birth to a strapping boy less than 24 hours ago. Everyone well.
> 
> More relaxed this time out, got great view of delivery (not for faint hearted at time, though v normal delivery) and no bother holding & feeding this one.
> 
> Though no doubt there'll be some tough times ahead I can honestly say I'm looking forward to it, when I see first buster bustin around the place its all well worthwhile.



Many congrats and very best wishes on your new arrival!!


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## S.L.F (24 Jan 2009)

Betsy Og said:


> Despatch from the Betsy newsroom, Mrs. Betsy gave birth to a strapping boy less than 24 hours ago. Everyone well.
> 
> More relaxed this time out, got great view of delivery (not for faint hearted at time, though v normal delivery) and no bother holding & feeding this one.
> 
> Though no doubt there'll be some tough times ahead I can honestly say I'm looking forward to it, when I see first buster bustin around the place its all well worthwhile.


 
Good man Betsy Og

If you're planning to wet the babies head you will invite all the AAMer's of course...

You better get another mortgage if you plan to buy a round


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## sandrat (24 Jan 2009)

Well done Mrs Betsy Og


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## Sue Ellen (25 Jan 2009)

Betsy Og said:


> Despatch from the Betsy newsroom, Mrs. Betsy gave birth to a strapping boy less than 24 hours ago. Everyone well.
> 
> More relaxed this time out, got great view of delivery (not for faint hearted at time, though v normal delivery) and no bother holding & feeding this one.
> 
> Though no doubt there'll be some tough times ahead I can honestly say I'm looking forward to it, when I see first buster bustin around the place its all well worthwhile.



Congrats and best wishes to the four of you.  Busy times ahead.


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## deedee80 (27 Jan 2009)

I can't wait to have kids!  I really get great enjoyment out of children and have always known all my life that I wanted kids.  Being a mother and having a family is hugely important to me.  Some peoples ambition in life is to be really career driven, mine was always to meet Mr. Right and have a family and a nice happy home life.  Taboo as I'm sure it is to admit that.

In the meantime I have a dog who is like my baby and I love her to bits.  

She doesn't really like me putting dresses on her or bottle feeding her anymore though


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

deedee80 said:


> I can't wait to have kids! I really get great enjoyment out of children and have always known all my life that I wanted kids. Being a mother and having a family is hugely important to me. Some peoples ambition in life is to be really career driven, mine was always to meet Mr. Right and have a family and a nice happy home life. Taboo as I'm sure it is to admit that.


 
Im not remotely career driven. But I dont seem to be family oriented either!!! I never had a defined ambition in life the way you do (and I dont think its a bit taboo btw), with the exception of getting a good education, which Ive done, and am continuing to do. Other than that I just want to be happy and free to enjoy myself in the pursuits of my own interests.



deedee80 said:


> In the meantime I have a dog who is like my baby and I love her to bits.


 
I definitely understand the 'feeling' in relation to animals.



deedee80 said:


> She doesn't really like me putting dresses on her or bottle feeding her anymore though


 
And I could definitely get down with doing this!!!!


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## Purple (27 Jan 2009)

Well done BetsyOg. Your life is now screwed so you may as well have more.

We went through IVF for three years after number one without success (we were advised by the doctor in a private IVF clinic in Dublin that a medical condition meant that Mrs Purple would be no more naturally). Over that three years there were a number of miscarriages. Thousands of Euro and six months after we stopped the IVF Mrs Purple found she was pregnant. We are now expecting number 4. It turns out that said medical condition was never there.


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## bacchus (28 Jan 2009)

'cos management companies don't allow people to have dogs?


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## erw fran (29 Jan 2009)

I was reading this thread yesterday and thinking about it later as I was reading a book and the sentence in the book was ".... makes me feel alive" well, for what its worth, having a child makes me feel alive.


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## bren1916 (29 Jan 2009)

erw fran said:


> ".... makes me feel alive"


 
Well said - certainly makes me feel alive and gives me something to really look forward to every evening when I get home.
You just cannot explain the joy/happiness or love for kids as it's certainly uncomparable to any other kinda love I've ever felt....


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## S.L.F (29 Jan 2009)

My boy needs someone to 'mind' (sit with him) him when he is falling asleep.

Recently I was sitting with him at bedtime 7.30, I closed my eyes.


A short while later he shakes me,"daddy I can't sleep...you're snoring".

Kids...

He almost got sent back to Holles Street.


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