# €300k shares in Kerry plc. Should I sell some to pay off tracker?



## Easeler (23 Nov 2017)

I have 3600 shares in kerry group which are really good at the moment up around 88 euro mark, I have 74000 euro tracker at 1.15 % left on my home worth about 250000 15 years left, we are a single income family with 4 kids it can be a bit tight at times,  I do sell a few shares around Christmas to have a nice Christmas and to use up our tax allowance, no pension or any other investments. OH thinks we should pay off mortgage, all eggs in 1 basket that sort of thing but I am a big believer in kerry.your thoughts please thanks


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## PGF2016 (23 Nov 2017)

There were people who were big believers in the banks in 2007. 

The prudent approach would be to reduce your risk. Pay off the mortgage and diversify out of Kerry to some extent. You'd have extra disposable income without mortgage payments. Put some of that to a pension.


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## Easeler (23 Nov 2017)

Thanks for your reply the problem I have is I purchased these shares and my home before I got married and had children and I haven't been able to put away money since, yes we will have the extra  400 a month if I do pay off mortgage but I know thats going to be swallowed up like the rest of it.


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## goingforgold (23 Nov 2017)

It depends on how much risk you are willing to take. It's not known how much profit would be made from selling all your shares but if it's substantially more than the ~74k left on mortgage then maybe prudent thing to do would be to clear mortgage and leave remaining shares in Kerry...it reduces the impact to you of a share drop significantly, but lets you benefit also if shares were to rise.


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## Joe_90 (23 Nov 2017)

You have over €300k in shares and you say things are a bit tight.

I would be selling the shares pay off the mortgage and then if needs be selling some more so that things are not tight.

It sounds like you don't have enough income to meet your outgoings which you may need to address through budgeting so that you can put something away if that's what you want.


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## PGF2016 (23 Nov 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Thanks for your reply the problem I have is I purchased these shares and my home before I got married and had children and I haven't been able to put away money since, yes we will have the extra  400 a month if I do pay off mortgage but I know thats going to be swallowed up like the rest of it.


If you lose your job and the shares tank you'll have a real problem. Personally I'd reduce the risk. And also as Joe_90 says take a look at your outgoings. 

It sounds like you're hoping we'll see keep the shares. "They'll be at 100 euro in no time."


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## Monbretia (23 Nov 2017)

I would sell enough to pay off the mortgage anyway.  Once upon a time I had 150k in bank shares


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Nov 2017)

It's absolute madness to have 50% of your wealth and 100% of your portfolio in one share. 

We don't allow speculation about shares on askaboutmoney, so I will make no comment on Kerry.  But even if a company is a very good company, the share can be overpriced. So the company can continue to do well, and the share price halves. 

I have shares in an excellent company Aryzta. They have halved in value since the top, although they are still well up on what I paid for them. 

It's very hard to sell shares which have done very well for you. But you must.

Look at it another way. If you had  a house worth €250k and a €74k mortgage and €300k in cash, would you invest it all in one share? 

I recommend a portfolio of 10 shares and this is criticized as being too little diversified. 

I think you should sell €270k worth of Kerry shares, even though you will probably have a CGT bill of €70k or so. 

The decision to pay off the mortgage or not is very close. But the decision to sell off most of your shares is not.

Brendan


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## RedOnion (23 Nov 2017)

I've worked in banking most of my career. If I look back to 2007, I have friends who had very valuable share portfolios, and large mortgages. Most of them still have large mortgages...

I know paying CGT is tough, but the only way to avoid it is if they lose value, or you die.

And finally, if you didn't already have shares, would you borrow money now to buy them? Even at 1.5%. because effectively that's what you're doing.

Sell off some now, repay your mortgage, and invest leftover elsewhere to diversify and avoid dipping into it to cover living expenses.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Nov 2017)

RedOnion said:


> I have friends who had very valuable share portfolios, and large mortgages. Most of them still have large mortgages...



Good one!


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## Easeler (23 Nov 2017)

Thanks for all the good advice not what I wanted to here of course, feels like jumping off a winning horse half way through the race, its probably the tax and the fact I will never get this lucky again thats holding me back from cashing in, its also called greed, I know what I have to do,


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## Ravima (23 Nov 2017)

Pay off the mortgage. You then own the house and no matter what misfortune befalls you, no one can take it away.


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## Gordon Gekko (23 Nov 2017)

- Sell virtually all of the shares but retain some (say 10%/€30k) so you still have some skin in the game

- Clear your mortgage

- Retain 6 months’ living costs in cash as an emergency fund

- Start a pension and funnel the remainder of the monies into it in the most tax efficient manner possible


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## Steven Barrett (24 Nov 2017)

I've never had someone complain about being debt free. 

Good that you also recognise that the reluctance to sell is partly fuelled through greed. Don't let that get in the way of making good decisions for your family. If things are tight, an extra €400 a month will make a big difference. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Nov 2017)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Start a pension and funnel the remainder of the monies into it in the most tax efficient manner possible



Only if you are paying tax at the top rate. Don't contribute to a pension at the lower rate.

Brendan


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## Dan Murray (24 Nov 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Only if you are paying tax at the top rate. Don't contribute to a pension at the lower rate.
> 
> Brendan



Why do you say this?


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## galway_blow_in (24 Nov 2017)

if it was me id sell all the shares and reinvest the proceeds in a broad based equity fund , your issue here is lack of diversification , not the level of debt you have ,  i would not pay off the mortgage , its very small and the interest rate is tiny , the dividend yield from most global equity funds is higher than the interest rate you are paying 

id cash out of this particular share however , its done great for you , dont fall in love with any stock


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## Easeler (24 Nov 2017)

Thanks again for all the feed back. What we have decided to do is sell 600 shares and thats my money back and than put 3000 shares back in the drawer and leave them there for 10 years, all going well should have house paid off than as well with a small over payment, I will be 56 than and hopefully in good health and we will access things again.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Nov 2017)

Dan Murray said:


> Why do you say this?



The downsides of pensions are only worth it if you are getting the full tax relief. 

So anyone on 20% tax should save their money outside a pension scheme and then when they are paying 40% tax, they can run down their savings to contribute to the pension fund.


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## Dan Murray (24 Nov 2017)

Hi Brendan,

In my opinion, what you are saying is only partly true - the position is simply not as absolute as you suggest.


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## Merowig (2 Dec 2017)

The growth in a pension is tax free, if you have shares in a funds outside of a pension vehicle and sell them you are fully hit by CGT...


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Dec 2017)

Many people seem to forget that pensions are taxed at your top rate on draw down.

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Dec 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Many people seem to forget that pensions are taxed at your top rate on draw down.
> 
> Brendan



Hi Brendan,

If someone is only getting relief at the 20% rate on the way in, there’s no way that they’ll be paying the 40% rate on way out.

It isn’t the tax relief that’s the key feature of a pension in my view...it’s the tax-free compounding.

Gordon


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## Sarenco (2 Dec 2017)

It's worth bearing in mind that the first €200k of pension lump sum is currently tax free and lump sums between €200k and €500k are taxable @20%.

Also, the over 65s have very generous tax credits (a couple with one spouse in this age bracket can currently earn €36k pa tax free) and they don't pay PRSI.

Put it all together and you would need to amass a pretty massive pension fund before any drawdown is taxed @40%.


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## money_man (12 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Thanks again for all the feed back. What we have decided to do is sell 600 shares and thats my money back and than put 3000 shares back in the drawer and leave them there for 10 years, all going well should have house paid off than as well with a small over payment, I will be 56 than and hopefully in good health and we will access things again.



You are basically ignoring all the advice being given by this thread so? It's your money and your choice so that's fine but it's worth aknowledging to yourself that this is what you're doing.

I will add my 2 cents to everyone else's and say it's craziness to have so much exposure to a single stock.


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## Gordon Gekko (12 Dec 2017)

Agreed...a crazy strategy that flies in the face of the decent advice given by many contributors


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## noproblem (12 Dec 2017)

If you get very sick and have to stop working, or God forbid, a terminal illness in the near future, what do you think you would do? I know we've all heard the phrase, "you can't bring it with you". Well, that becomes a reality for very healthy people every day, every single day and no one sees it coming. Putting the shares in a drawer and hoping to enjoy them in the future is one perfect way to make God laugh.  The shares are over €93 today, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## Easeler (12 Dec 2017)

Noproblem thanks for your reply we do live it up a bit we have nice house and don't really need for anything. We are not very extravagant and live kind of conservative lifestyles, my parents didn't have much and were very conservative and thats the way I was reared so its hard to get in to spending mode,  l worked in construction in the states in the 90s and used send money home and my mother started buying shares in kerry group and Irishlife and permanent for me at the time, don't ask me how she got that in to her head I will never know, she has passed on sense, I took a loss on ILP so I know what its like watching the bottom fall out of shares.


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## MrEarl (13 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> ....I took a loss on ILP so I know what its like watching the bottom fall out of shares.



In that case, have you still got the capital losses or did you use them up on something else ?

If you still have the capital losses, then that is yet another good reason in support of selling more of the Kerry shares now, given you could offset the losses to get more of the sale proceeds tax free.

Nothing personal, but I think you are absolute insane to have so much of your wealth tied up in one single share, no matter what company it is.  It simply defies belief that you would have all of your eggs in one basket, sort of speak.  Clear your debt, then diversify some of what is left into other sensible investments (through your pension or otherwise, as appropriate) for the long term.  If you are unsure as to what to invest in, there are plenty of places you can get some good advice.  If you are spending more than you are earning each month, then that's an entirely different issue to address 


.


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## cremeegg (13 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Thanks again for all the feed back. What we have decided to do is sell 600 shares and thats my money back and than put 3000 shares back in the drawer and leave them there for 10 years, all going well should have house paid off than as well with a small over payment, I will be 56 than and hopefully in good health and we will access things again.



Sorry to be blunt, but this is not a good decision.

You should sell the shares. What you do after that, pay off mortgage, invest in a broad based equity fund or a pension is secondary.

You have not been well served on this thread by all the discussion of mortgage vs investment, pension vs no pension. These are secondary issues. *Sell the shares.*

If you leave the shares or most of them in a drawer for 10 years I dont know if your profit at the end will be more or less that if you sell them. I do know that your risk will be much greater.

Why are you keeping the shares. I suspect it is because you don't want to take the responsibility to make a decision about what to do with the €300k. Thats not good enough, in terms of your responsibility to yourself and your family.


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## Firefly (18 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> I have 3600 shares in kerry group which are really good at the moment up around 88 euro mark, I have 74000 euro tracker at 1.15 % left on my home worth about 250000 15 years left, we are a single income family with 4 kids it can be a bit tight at times,  I do sell a few shares around Christmas to have a nice Christmas and to use up our tax allowance, no pension or any other investments. OH thinks we should pay off mortgage, all eggs in 1 basket that sort of thing but I am a big believer in kerry.your thoughts please thanks



OP, 

I would :

(1) Sell enough shares and immediately pay off the mortgage

(2) Sell a few more shares and throw a big party !


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## PaddyBloggit (18 Dec 2017)

+1 .... make life easier for yourself OP.


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## moneymakeover (18 Dec 2017)

A good share is worth keeping

I applaud the OP

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/an...ion-protection-against-ignorance-it-makes.asp


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## Gordon Gekko (18 Dec 2017)

moneymakeover said:


> A good share is with keeping
> 
> I applaud the OP
> 
> https://www.investopedia.com/ask/an...ion-protection-against-ignorance-it-makes.asp



Buffett is a professional investor with almost unlimited resources; I’ve no doubt that his advice to a private individual in Ireland would be to diversify.


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## cremeegg (18 Dec 2017)

moneymakeover said:


> A good share is with keeping
> 
> I applaud the OP
> 
> https://www.investopedia.com/ask/an...ion-protection-against-ignorance-it-makes.asp



This is laughable. You have no idea what you are talking about. Or more likely you are just trying to get a rise out of us. 

The OP did not buy shares in Kerry because he understood their potential. His mother bought them, together with ILP shares which are now worthless, without his even knowing. 

My New Years resolution is not to respond to these goads.


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## Sarenco (18 Dec 2017)

FWIW Buffett has consistently advised retail investors in recent years to buy low cost index funds.


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## Easeler (18 Dec 2017)

The OP did not buy shares in Kerry because he understood their potential. His mother bought them, together with ILP shares which are now worthless, without his even knowing.
QUOTE creamegg

Well just to clarify in case my 9 siblings are looking in,  yes she bought the shares in my name with the dollars I was sending home in the early nineties, she was a very proud kerry women , I was an illegal alien in New york at the time working in construction and living in a box room there was just room for the double bed.


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## Sarenco (18 Dec 2017)

@galwaypat

I'm not having a pop but do you think there is a possibility that you are emotionally invested in those Kerry shares, maybe to a point that's blinding your judgment?

After all, you worked damn hard for the money that was used to buy those shares and that's where your proud Kerry mother chose to invest your cash.  Nobody would blame you for placing a special value on those shares over and above their intrinsic monetary value.  I certainly wouldn't.

But at end of the day they still represent a share in the stock of a single company.  However highly you might think of that company its fortunes are far from guaranteed.

Would you take out another home loan to buy more shares in Kerry?  If you wouldn't then the logical side of your brain should be telling you what you should be doing here.

My advice - sell enough shares to clear your mortgage and then start contributing to a pension if you haven't already.  Financially, for your family, that's the smart move.


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## moneymakeover (18 Dec 2017)

Buy and hold

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rul...fetts-advice-why-you-should-buy-and-hold/amp/


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## Easeler (19 Dec 2017)

moneymakeover said:


> A good share is worth keeping
> 
> I applaud the OP
> 
> Thank you moneymakeover although I had no part in picking the shares I did choose to hold on to them, I could have sold them several years ago when I bought my first house, and even during the recession when work was tight but I didn't, they turned out to be a good decision, so I am confident that I can make a call on this and live with it. Its going against all on here 90% say to sell and only yourself 10% say to hold, time will tell I will bump this one again in 10 years if we are still about.


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## llgon (19 Dec 2017)

You said in your original post that your OH thinks you should sell enough shares to clear the mortgage. Has she changed her mind or are you ignoring her as well as the 90% here?


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## Easeler (19 Dec 2017)

She is happy enough like I said we get around 2k in dividends during summer which usual goes towards a nice holiday and I sell 4K worth at christmas time and we usually splash out a bit at christmas and that helps to keep her sweet.


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## llgon (19 Dec 2017)

Good man, hopefully the charm will continue.


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## MrEarl (19 Dec 2017)

llgon said:


> .....are you ignoring her as well as the 90% here?



I've not counted the votes, but I'd respectfully suggest that the original poster is ignoring closer to 98% of the posters here


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## llgon (19 Dec 2017)

I didn't count either but was just using galwaypat's own figure from the post previous to that. Even if the figure was 100% I think he has a lot more to worry about by going against his wife's opinion. She might be happy enough now but that could change. Hopefully not though.


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## Easeler (19 Dec 2017)

MrEarl said:


> I've not counted the votes, but I'd respectfully suggest that the original poster is ignoring closer to 98% of the posters here


Your good at percentages so whats the pecentage of increase since they went on the stock market back in 1986 for 52p a share to today trading at 94 euro


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## lukas888 (19 Dec 2017)

Galway Pat initiated the thread looking for advice on his options with his Kerry holding,he is blinded by the extraordinary rise 40% this year so far.His reply to Mr Earl suggests to me that he has no intention of taking any of the sensible avenues open to him.I don't think their is much point in arguing the toss with him any longer.For his sake I hope they continue on the rise.


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## cremeegg (19 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Your good at percentages so whats the pecentage of increase since they went on the stock market back in 1986 for 52p a share to today trading at 94 euro



This is the important point.

How many companies succeed like that. Very few.

How many repeat that success. None.

Your mother bought you a winning lottery ticket. Cash it in.


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Your good at percentages so whats the pecentage of increase since they went on the stock market back in 1986 for 52p a share to today trading at 94 euro



So what? Shareholders of once great companies have said the same for years.

You looked for advice and you’ve received it; retaining these shares is reckless in the extreme, but it sounds like you’re gonna plough your own furrow. Whether the company is Kerry, Microsoft, Apple, Diageo, Unilever, or whoever, you should derisk your family balance sheet and sell these shares.


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## cremeegg (20 Dec 2017)

The reason people are suggesting you sell is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.

Let me try a different approach to outline why this may be a bad idea.

The situation is that you think you should keep the shares, your wife thinks you should sell.

*If you keep them*

If Kerry shares return a brilliant performance over the next 10 years, you get a financial benefit, but no marital benefit. Your wife is unlikely to thank you for being right when she was wrong. This is an unlikely result.

If Kerry shares return anywhere between a solid performance and a poor performance over the next 10 years, you get no financial benefit, and no marital benefit. Your wife is unlikely to thank you for ignoring her advice. This is the most likely result.

If Kerry shares tank. You suffer a financial loss and a double marital loss. You ignored her advice AND you lost money.


*If you sell them* (and invest in a broad equity portfolio or anything similar)

Marital bonus straightaway. You took her advice.

If Kerry shares return a brilliant performance over the next 10 years, you actually loose nothing. Of course there will be an "If only" feeling. But You will get to come back here and say "I told you so" 

If Kerry shares return anywhere between a solid performance and a poor performance over the next 10 years, you will get the same with a broad based investment. This is the most likely result.

If Kerry shares tank. You have dodged the bus.


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## Easeler (20 Dec 2017)

Thanks creamegg my head is wrecked I think I will park the idea for a while and we will leave it at that. Happy Christmas and a prosperous new year to all on here thanks again.
Pat


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## lukas888 (20 Dec 2017)

Good man Pat, is that your subtle way of telling us all you are going to completely disregard all advice and continue your love affair with Kerry.


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## Gordon Gekko (20 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Thanks creamegg my head is wrecked I think I will park the idea for a while and we will leave it at that. Happy Christmas and a prosperous new year to all on here thanks again.
> Pat



Your head will be even more wrecked it the proverbial hits the fan with regard to Kerry.

It appears that close to 2/3 of your wealth is wedded to the fortunes of a single share.

That is utterly insane.

Put it another way, if you had €300,000 in cash, would you think that it’d be a good idea to invest it all in Kerry plc?

Sell virtually all of them and keep a relatively small amount (say €10k) for sentimental reasons and to retain an interest.

And do it now, not after Christmas. And then enjoy your Christmas, safe in the knowledge that your family’s financial future is secure. Because as things stand, you’re being a head in the sand merchant.


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## dereko1969 (20 Dec 2017)

Still hasn't answered the most important question, which is does he still have the losses on the IL&P shares to use against the annual sale of shares. At the very least he should consider this aspect to legally avoid tax implications and perhaps look after his family a bit better.
He also stated at the beginning that things are tight, now it seems that's not the case.
Basing investment on the Silas Marner approach and leaving value in the drawer seems a waste of good fortune to me.


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## MrEarl (21 Dec 2017)

galwaypat said:


> Your good at percentages so whats the pecentage of increase since they went on the stock market back in 1986 for 52p a share to today trading at 94 euro



Past performance.......

Go speak with someone who had a significant amount of wealth tied up in the likes of Anglo Irish Bank, or AIB, before those companies collapsed and the investors lost everything.

I have absolutely nothing against Kerry (and actually hold a few shares in the company myself, as it happens).

I'll sign off this thread by wishing you a Merry Christmas and all the best for 2018.


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## Boyd (21 Dec 2017)

Hard to tell if this thread is about selling shares or a marital counselling service  

My 2 cents is sell them, clear your debts and move on. No head wrecking needed.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Dec 2017)

username123 said:


> Hard to tell if this thread is about selling shares or a marital counselling service
> 
> My 2 cents is sell them, clear your debts and move on. No head wrecking needed.



indeed , the comments about the OP,s personal life are unfair

i strongly agree with the view the OP should cash in however , kerry has performed spectacularly well for him , you can never time the top to perfection or the bottom , retaining a small token amount of shares would be a way to keep some interest in the company 

the stock has done so well , even he sold and put all the money in a boring broad based fund , he is virtually guarenteed to grow his wealth modestly as he clearly has patience , he has held kerry for so long


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## gnf_ireland (21 Dec 2017)

@galwaypat   I have not been following the thread, but popped in this morning as I was surprised it was still active.

I see the challenge you have - you have a solid share that has done well for you over a very long period of time. You would like to stay on that ride and get the most out of it, but it is not possible to time the market. You also have your eggs in one basket, which is of course a dangerous place to be.

Take a similar type of company - Apple. It has done great and has had a number of reincarnations over the years. But it also has had major price fluctuation along the way. Can you handle your investment dropping to 200k or below overnight if something negative comes out about Kerry. What happens if we have another scandal in the agri sector - either here or abroad?



The fool hardy thing to do is think Kerry will continue to rise the way it has risen over the last while. Past performance and all that stuff.. 
The sensible thing is to divest the portfolio and take the massive gains you have made.
The balanced thing to do is to sell some of the shares before Christmas - say 100k - and then decide what will happen in the New Year. At least you have taken steps in the right direction

I know if I was sitting on 300k of anything - whether it be bitcoin or Kerry shares,  I would be taking some of the profits now and going on a nice holiday for the family and smiling at my good fortune [and of course paying down the mortgage] !


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