# Can a bank lose a property valuation report ?



## Rebuttal (6 Oct 2015)

A friend of mine requested the original property valuation report from a bank from which he obtained a mortgage. He got a written reply from the bank stating they cannot locate same. The valuation report dates back to 2004. The question I am asking is, are the bank telling the truth or are they just not bothered enough to locate it ? Surely, the bank would have to scan the valuation report onto their computer system for internal audit purposes, in case external audit wanted to track the mortgage application from start to finish. Anyone have any views or experience of this ?


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## Monbretia (6 Oct 2015)

Not sure if scanning was being used back then, the file may just be in storage and it's possible for  a document to get lost.   Your friend would have got a copy of the valuation report with their own loan offer, where is it, surely not lost!


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## Rebuttal (6 Oct 2015)

No, he never got the valuation report, I believe the only bank that gave the valuation report with the loan offer as a matter of course at this time, was, would you believe, PTSB.

However I did find this legislation under the Consumer Credit Act 1995.

Valuation reports.

*123.*—(1) Where a mortgage lender—

(_a_) gives approval to the making of a housing loan; or

(_b_) refuses to make a housing loan,

the applicant for the loan shall, at the time he is notified of the approval of the loan or of the refusal to give such approval, be furnished by the mortgage lender with a copy of the report (“valuation report”) made to the mortgage lender on the value of the security.

(2) The mortgage lender shall attach to or include in every valuation report furnished to an applicant in accordance with _subsection (1)_ a note stating clearly the nature and purpose of the report.

(3) There shall be no charge made to the applicant for a valuation report if the loan application is refused.


Therefore, it would seem to me, that the Bank must have a copy of the valuation report as they would not send the original to the borrower.


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## Monbretia (6 Oct 2015)

Of course they should have a copy but documents do get lost, mortgage files can be big folders of stuff and they are cleared out and packed up and sent off to storage, sometimes things go astray.

I don't agree that lenders were not sending out copies of the valuation report in 2004, the piece you have quoted clearly states they must send out one.


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## vandriver (6 Oct 2015)

As a courier,I shifted hundreds of boxes of mortgage application files from head office,where they were running out of room,to a branch which had an empty stockroom.
There was no cataloguing or inventory and the boxes weren't sealed,with papers spilling out of the boxes in my van.Obviously, I scooped them up into the emptiest box before delivering them .
The boxes were then rammed in this too small stockroom in no order.
So,do I believe that stuff could get lost-of course!


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## Rebuttal (6 Oct 2015)

Monbrieta, 

No, at this time, many banks did not send out valuation reports with the loan agreement, this will probably be backed up by other posters. My friend still has the mortgage with the bank. I just find it unusual that the bank cannot lay their hand on the document in question.


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## Rebuttal (6 Oct 2015)

Vandriver,

What bank's head office was that ?


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## Monbretia (7 Oct 2015)

But what you are saying then is that banks were ignoring in 2004 legislation that was there since 1995 telling them send out copy reports?

I left banking in 2009 and for a long long time before that valuation reports were sent out, it was definitely not just a few years.

Out of curiosity I just checked my own loan offer from 2001 and the copy valuation is with it.

Now this doesn't excuse the bank losing it but it does happen as poster above says, files are brown folders and not sealed so things can fall out and end up in another file or even be misfiled in the first place, similar names etc.   What is your friend trying to check on the valuation?  The info may be on the bank system in another format if it is insurance values/property value/comments.

Banks regularly request back boxes of files from storage, it's no big deal, there is no reason to believe the bank just can't be bothered to look, they probably have got back the relevant box of files covering your friends name and the valuation is not in it, it happens.


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## thedaddyman (7 Oct 2015)

For many years, the banks had an embargo on the destruction of paper records due to various tribunals. That has now been lifted and all of the banks are going through a destruction phase and it is possible that the report has gone as part of that. In many cases, the banks are only obliged to hold records for 6-7 years, depending on the record. Storing all that paper was a massive cost, for example, most banks were holding almost every cheque and piece of paper that had come across their counter for the last 15 years. That ran to 100s of millions of items.

Banks are only now starting to invest in digital archives, but much of it is for new records without any bank scanning. I've been in the store rooms of banks and branches in the past, usually they can be a bit of a mess. I wouldn't say it is deliberate in this case that they can't find the item in question, more a case of human error or it may have been destroyed


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Monbretia said:


> But what you are saying then is that banks were ignoring in 2004 legislation that was there since 1995 telling them send out copy reports?
> 
> I left banking in 2009 and for a long long time before that valuation reports were sent out, it was definitely not just a few years.
> 
> ...



Monbrieta,

He is suing the bank for fraudulent misrepresentation, the bank are aware of the legal action and the various valuation reports form part of the evidence against the bank. In all, the bank cannot lay their hand on any of the 9 valuations reports for 9 separate mortgages that this man has with the bank. I think the word convenient springs to mind.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Monbrieta,

The bank however can produce scanned copies of the various loan agreements. Strange that.


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## Monbretia (7 Oct 2015)

Well that puts a different kind of slant on it!    Would the valuers have copies on file?


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Yes, they do, but they do not have the physical valuation report for three of the properties as they destroyed the physical records, ( entitled to do same, due to passage of time and the fact that they ran out of physical storage space ). The values only has skeletal records on computer in relation to these three properties. However, I believe the valuer is willing to give direct evidence before a court. He is of the belief that the bank has to have the valuation reports, especially since they were able to furnish my friend with the mortgage agreements. ( seemingly the valuation report is attached to mortgage agreement ).


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

thedaddyman said:


> For many years, the banks had an embargo on the destruction of paper records due to various tribunals. That has now been lifted and all of the banks are going through a destruction phase and it is possible that the report has gone as part of that. In many cases, the banks are only obliged to hold records for 6-7 years, depending on the record. Storing all that paper was a massive cost, for example, most banks were holding almost every cheque and piece of paper that had come across their counter for the last 15 years. That ran to 100s of millions of items.
> 
> Banks are only now starting to invest in digital archives, but much of it is for new records without any bank scanning. I've been in the store rooms of banks and branches in the past, usually they can be a bit of a mess. I wouldn't say it is deliberate in this case that they can't find the item in question, more a case of human error or it may have been destroyed[/QUOTE ]


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## Monbretia (7 Oct 2015)

Depending on the bank of course but I don't think you can say they should have them just because they would be attached to the mortgage agreement.  The valuation would actually be with the mortgage application file which would (should) also contain the original valuation report and a copy of the mortgage offer.   The actual signed agreement usually goes back through the solicitors office so ends up in the same file, definitely not necessarily attached to a valuation though.

I know where I worked the original valuation would be sent to HO with the mortgage application with a copy kept in the office file.  HO would send out the loan offer with a copy of valuation to customer.  The HO files were usually scanned but there was still a physical copy in branch.  The branch files would then be cleaned out periodically and irrelevant documentation removed and the rest sent off to storage, not sure how long they kept it there for.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Daddyman,

I will now refer you to Distant Marketing of Consumer Financial Services Regulations, in particular to section 6, please note the highlighted field.


PART 2

PRE-CONTRACT REQUIREMENTS FOR DISTANCE CONTRACTS FOR THE SUPPLY OF FINANCIAL SERVICES

_Supplier to give consumer certain pre-contract information_

6. (1) Within a reasonable time before a consumer is bound by a distance contract for the supply of a financial service, the supplier shall give the consumer the information specified in Schedule 1.

(2) The supplier shall—

(_a_) make known to the consumer the commercial purpose of the contract, and

(_b_) give that information in a way that is clear and comprehensible, taking into account the means of communication used, and

(_c_) in giving that information, comply with all enactments and rules of law that—

(i) require good faith in commercial transactions, or

(ii) provide protection to those who are unable to give their consent, such as minors.

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(_b_), information is given in a clear way only if it—

(_a_) is easily, directly and at all times accessible to the consumer of the financial service concerned, and

(_b_) can be stored by the consumer in a durable medium.

(4) In giving information about the contractual obligations that would arise under a proposed distance contract for the supply of a financial service, a supplier shall ensure that, as far as reasonably practicable, the information accurately reflects the contractual obligations that would arise under the law presumed to be applicable to the contract assuming it were to be entered into.

*(5) A supplier shall keep in a durable and tamper-proof form a copy of all information that has been given to a consumer in relation to a distance contract or proposed distance contract for the supply of a financial service.*

(6) A distance contract for the supply of a financial service to a consumer is not enforceable against the consumer unless this Regulation is complied with.

Now, referring back to section 123 of the Consumer Credit Act 1995, about the requirement to supply the consumer with the valuation document, and the fact that most mortgage agreements that I am aware of, contain a contractual clause to state that the application must be accompanied by a valid valuation report which is acceptable to the bank and which will form part of the terms and conditions of obtaining the loan approval. Then it possible for a Judge to find that the failure of a bank to furnish a consumer with this valuation report is a breach of this regulation 6(5) and therefore the mortgage agreement is unenforceable as per regulation 6(6).

Interesting, isn't it.


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## Monbretia (7 Oct 2015)

Was this distance marketing?  Did he never deal with an actual person?


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Look up SI 853/2004, it applies to all consumer mortgage applications, unless the bank's CEO and yourself signed the mortgage agreement at the same time, in the same room. Arthur cox and Matheson refer to same as regulations that must be complied with, when enforcing securities ( see legal issues with Irish residential mortgages )


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## Monbretia (7 Oct 2015)

Sure you're sorted so, they can't find the valuation, he doesn't have to pay!


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Monbrieta,

I' m not sorted at all, but maybe my friend will be. It's a little bit more complicated than what your last post implies. For a Judge to deem the mortgage contract unenforceable under these regulations, he/she has to deem the failure to supply the information as deliberate and that such failure did prejudice the consumer.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

I was looking at BB's thread on Central Bank's review of trackers and found the C.B.I. we're investigating financial institutions under the Consumer Protection Code 2006, and low and behold I discovered section 49 of the code which states a regulated entity must maintain up to date records containing at least the following

( g) copies of all original documents submitted by the consumer in support of an application for the provision of a service or product;

BINGO !


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Does that mean the outstanding amount of the loan is irrecoverable?  Result.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

No, but it will add weight to his case down the High Court, especially seeing that the main complaint is fraudulent misrepresentation on behalf of the bank. The fact that the financial institution in question has breached this code along with a myriad of other statutory legislation will certainly not aid their defence.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

I will also advise and help him to write in a comprehensive complaint to the C.B.I. about the bank, in tandem with his legal action, seeing that the C.B.I. have awoken from their slumber.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Ok so.  Could you share any details of the alleged fraudulent misrepresentation with us?  For the benefit of other readers, obviously.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco said:


> Does that mean the outstanding amount of the loan is irrecoverable?  Result.


Sarenco,

Do you think he could include this in his affidavit as being breached, schedule 3(q) of the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations, which states-


( _q_ ) excluding or hindering the consumer's right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, particularly by requiring the consumer to take disputes exclusively to arbitration not covered by legal provisions, *unduly restricting the evidence available to him or imposing on him* a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

An affidavit is a sworn statement of fact.  You can include whatever allegations you like in a statement of claim - doesn't mean it has any chance of success.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Deleted post on borrower's request


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## DebtCert (7 Oct 2015)

If he has 9 separate mortgages, he may not be a consumer in which case the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act would not apply.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

He has 5 properties with top up mortgages on some. He has 5 children. The bank have dealt with him as a consumer too date.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Well, on the basis of those facts, I can see that the bank might have cause to complain about their employee or agent (the loan officer) but I don't see how that helps your friend.  

Where was the deceit on the part of the bank that induced your friend to enter into the loan agreement?


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

DebtCert said:


> If he has 9 separate mortgages, he may not be a consumer in which case the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act would not apply.



Not sure where you're getting that from.  

It is well established that a commercial investor is not a consumer.  There is no requirement for such an investor to hold multiple properties - one could suffice.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Yes, there is also case law where the Millars had seven properties and where treated as consumers by the court. Precedent set.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Whether he is a consumer or not does not really matter, the fact is, a mortgage fraud on behalf of the bank occurred. The deceit occurred by the loan officer doctoring an internal document ( false instrument ) and this induced the bank and the borrower to enter contract. The loan officer is acting as body corporate for the bank, so the loan officers actions are akin to the banks actions. The borrowers entered into contract on a mortgage loan, that on the face of it that should never have been sanctioned.( if the true facts of the application had been disclosed to underwriting ). Therefore there is a cause of action available to the borrower in this instance, this is the deceit.


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## DebtCert (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco said:


> Not sure where you're getting that from.
> 
> It is well established that a commercial investor is not a consumer.  There is no requirement for such an investor to hold multiple properties - one could suffice.



I didn't suggest otherwise.  I'm saying that to be a consumer and so qualify for the protections of the CCA then he must be acting outside his trade, business or profession. Multiple investor properties have the appearance of a business but I have no special knowledge of the circumstances involved here.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Fair enough but your reference to 9 mortgages seemed very precise.


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## DebtCert (7 Oct 2015)

Indeed, as the OP referenced nine separate mortgages in post #10.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,

I have read a lot of your posts and believe you have very good knowledge of the law, have you any views on the case. I know the courts are very conservative, but I believe this man has a genuine case. Should he even go to the police ?


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Rebuttal said:


> Whether he is a consumer or not does not really matter, the fact is, a mortgage fraud on behalf of the bank occurred. The deceit occurred by the loan officer doctoring an internal document ( false instrument ) and this induced the bank and the borrower to enter contract. The loan officer is acting as body corporate for the bank, so the loan officers actions are akin to the banks actions. The borrowers entered into contract on a mortgage loan, that on the face of it that should never have been sanctioned.( if the true facts of the application had been disclosed to underwriting ). Therefore there is a cause of action available to the borrower in this instance, this is the deceit.



Sorry but I don't see where the loan officer, and by extension the bank, made any (mis)representation of fact to the borrower.  How could a borrower rely on a representation contained within an internal bank document that was not addressed to him and how could this possibly induce a borrower to enter into a loan contract?


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Yes each mortgage is separate, you could possibly have nine separate mortgages on one property.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,

Surely the loan officer fraudulent misrepresentation of the rental income on the property to the bank induced the bank to enter contract with the borrower. The loan officer is body corporate for the bank, his fraudulent misrepresentation by default then induced the borrower into the said contract as the bank agreed to contract ,if the loan officer had acted truthfully, the bank would not have sanctioned the loan.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

From a criminal law perspective all the necessary ingredients are there to charge the loan officer with fraud. How come the civil proofs are not there.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

DebtCert said:


> Indeed, as the OP referenced nine separate mortgages in post #10.



Ah, gotcha.  Sorry, I didn't draw the link between the two posts.

It really depends on all the factual circumstances.  The quantum and number of loans would certainly be relevant and whether or not the disputed loan agreement contains a warranty to the effect that the borrower is not acting as a consumer.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Rebuttal said:


> Surely the loan officer fraudulent misrepresentation of the rental income on the property to the bank induced the bank to enter contract with the borrower. The loan officer is body corporate for the bank, his fraudulent misrepresentation by default then induced the borrower into the said contract as the bank agreed to contract,if the loan officer had acted truthfully, the bank would not have sanctioned the loan.



Well, the bank might theoretically have a cause of action against its own loan officer but it doesn't follow that the borrower was induced by any misrepresentation on the part of the bank to enter into the contract.  

Was the borrower even aware of the content of the internal bank document when he entered into the loan agreement?  Even if he was, he would have to demonstrate that he actually relied on this alleged misrepresentation at the time he entered into the contract and that this was the bank's intention in making the misrepresentation to him.  

None of these elements are evident to me from the facts as presented.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Rebuttal said:


> Should he even go to the police ?



To be frank, I don't think the Gardai would take any action unless the complaint was made by or on behalf of the bank.  And even then...


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,

does the legal description below not bring the borrower within the ambit of being a victim of fraudulent misrepresentation,

_(iii) intent to induce reliance_. The representor must intend for the representee to rely on the representation in the way that the representee actually does. The test for intent is what can objectively be inferred from the circumstances. It is possible that the plaintiff is not the immediate recipient of the representation. However, so long as the plaintiff belongs to the class of persons to whom the representor intended the representation to pass, he is not deprived of sufficient standing to bring a claim.

_(iv) actual reliance by the representee_. There must be a correlation between the representation, the intended reliance and actual reliance by the plaintiff. The representation need not be the only reason for the plaintiff’s conduct, but it must materially influence the plaintiff. In terms of proof, actual reliance will generally be inferred from the circumstances: if the plaintiff acts in a manner on the basis of the representation that one would ordinarily expect given all the circumstances, this will suffice.

ie, the borrower acted in a manner that he normally would- he accepted the loan offer from the bank.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

But where was the representation to the borrower in the first place? Never mind intent and reliance.


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,


_(i) an untrue representation of fact_. The untrue representation may be written or oral, and may be express or implied by conduct. To be actionable, the representation must be of a actual nature. An indication of opinion or personal intention will not usually constitute a representation as to its substance, although it can constitute a representation of the fact that the representor holds that opinion or intention at the time, which may suffice, depending on the circumstances of the case. An omission to disclose relevant information will not ordinarily constitute a representation. The exceptions to this are where:


*the non-disclosure renders other statements misleading;* or
the law recognises that the relationship between the parties belongs to a category which requires disclosure. Such relationships include fiduciary relationships (a special relationship of trust and confidence, eg between trustee and beneficiary, and which can ground a separate cause of action (see below, Breach of fiduciary duty) or transactions which are uberrimae fidei (required to be in utmost good faith).


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,


_(i) an untrue representation of fact_. The untrue representation may be written or oral, and may be express or implied by conduct. To be actionable, the representation must be of a actual nature. An indication of opinion or personal intention will not usually constitute a representation as to its substance, although it can constitute a representation of the fact that the representor holds that opinion or intention at the time, which may suffice, depending on the circumstances of the case. An omission to disclose relevant information will not ordinarily constitute a representation. The exceptions to this are where:


*the non-disclosure renders other statements misleading;* or
the law recognises that the relationship between the parties belongs to a category which requires disclosure. Such relationships include fiduciary relationships (a special relationship of trust and confidence, eg between trustee and beneficiary, and which can ground a separate cause of action (see below, Breach of fiduciary duty) or transactions which are uberrimae fidei (required to be in utmost good faith).


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

Sorry, don't know what happened


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## Rebuttal (7 Oct 2015)

There is a particular statutory rule for statements concerning the creditworthiness of another person. Fraudulent misrepresentations provided to enable another party to obtain credit are only enforceable if they are provided in writing and signed (section 6, Statute of Frauds Amendment Act 1828). This avoids the situation whereby the representor would effectively become a guarantor of any credit advanced through making a fraudulent misrepresentation.

In this case the loan officer signed the bank's declaration of compliance with the banks code and practice on lending. It is the representer who is committing the fraud.


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## Sarenco (7 Oct 2015)

Ok, what statement did the bank make to the borrower that was misleading due to the non-discourse of some material fact which rendered the statement misleading?  

From the facts as posted there was no statement or representation at all by the bank to the borrower, never mind one that was rendered misleading by some non-disclosure.

To the extent that there was a fraud (and that is far from clear), it was committed on the bank - not the borrower.


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## Rebuttal (8 Oct 2015)

Sarenco,

I think I get what you are saying but I will have to refer to my friends documentation and get back to you.

What legal recourse has this borrower when the bank's loan officer has breached the bank's internal criteria for issuing mortgages so that the borrower obtained a mortgage that they simply did not qualify for or could not afford. This mortgage then went into default.


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## Asphyxia (8 Oct 2015)

Rebuttal,

I would agree with Sarenco, that, on the face of it, there appears not to be enough evidence to satisfy the tort of deceit, however having said that he can take an action against the bank based on professional negligence, which on the face of it, is most definitely satisfied. On another point, if his friend does goes to the Gardai and the loan officer is subsequently charged with fraud, seeing that his friend was directly affected by the fraud ( obtained inflated mortgage approval ), this matter can be brought to the civil courts attention. Fraud unravels everything.


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## Asphyxia (8 Oct 2015)

I'd draw your attention to the Supreme Court case KBC Bank V BCM Hanby Wallace.

In this case the Supreme Court concluded:

*The Supreme Court*

The Supreme Court reviewed the evidence and clarified the finding of _“deception”_ stating that the High Court judgment _“cannot and should not be read as imputing any intentional dishonesty or deliberate misleading to any partners or officers of the appellant firm”. _

The Court noted that banks have a duty when reviewing whether to make any given loan to assess the soundness, financial standing and trustworthiness of the prospective borrower *as well as the viability of the proposed venture.* This meant that* banks should have robust and comprehensive credit analysis and approval processes to ensure adequate monitoring of risk*, as required by the _EC (Licensing and Supervision of Credit Institutions) Regulation 1992_. These duties are quite independent of any reliance the bank might place on any third party, such as a solicitor.


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## Rebuttal (8 Oct 2015)

Thanks very much to all the posters to date, lots of food for thought.


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## Sarenco (8 Oct 2015)

Was the bank acting in some sort of advisory capacity in its dealings with the borrower?

There is certainly no general duty on a lender to offer advice to a borrower or otherwise to act exclusively in the best interests of a borrower.


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## Rebuttal (8 Oct 2015)

Does a bank owe a duty of care to it's customers ?

Firstly, to borrowers. It depends on whether or not the borrower is a commercial customer of the bank or a domestic customer and if the latter, the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act must be complied with by the bank so as to ensure that they fully understand what they are doing. The Consumer Credit Act may also include borrowings in relation to the family home and may also include commercial transactions, borrowings in respect of which are secured on the family home. The bank has to realise that they may be dealing with consumers and therefore have to take care that not only is the Act complied with but also that the borrowers are properly and independently advised. A High Court judge recently described this requirement as the parties having “equality of arms” – in other words, that a bank with all its expertise and professional advisors is equally matched by the quality of advice being given to the borrowers.

 Therefore, in terms of the duty of care owed to borrowers, a borrower classified as a consumer has a special entitlement to a duty of care under the Consumer Credit Act and other legislation applicable.In relation to the “arm’s length” borrower that appears to the bank to be properly and comprehensively advised and represented and to which the Consumer Credit Act does not apply, then the bank’s duty ( with a number of minor exceptions) is not to mislead the borrower in any material way about the particular transaction.


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## Sarenco (8 Oct 2015)

Fair enough, the reference above to professional negligence threw me.

Is there any suggestion that the bank mislead the borrower regarding the terms of the loan product?  I assume the borrower was capable of understanding these terms and that he was advised by a solicitor in this transaction - no?


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## Rebuttal (8 Oct 2015)

*Breach of duty* in negligence liability may be found to exist where the defendant fails to meet the standard of care required by law. Once it has been established that the defendant owed the claimant a duty of care, the claimant must also demonstrate that the defendant was in *breach of duty*. The test of *breach of duty* is generally objective, however, there may be slight variations to this.

Sarenco, would this apply in this case as the bank has lost the valuation reports and indeed did not supply my friend with a copy of the mortgage deeds to the various properties in contravention of section 123 and 130 Consumer Credit Act 1995 respectively.


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## Sarenco (8 Oct 2015)

Not in my opinion.


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## Rebuttal (9 Oct 2015)

His solicitor employed counsel, they think he has a good case, although I am not aware of all the facts of the case, we will have to wait and see. I will keep this site posted for updates.


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## Sarenco (9 Oct 2015)

Could you give us any indication at all what claims might be pursued by the borrower?  I assume the borrower is initiating these proceedings - is that correct?


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## Rebuttal (9 Oct 2015)

Yes, but I was only exploring one aspect of my friends claim, this man amazingly, after emailing the C.B.I., got an audience with them. They photocopied all his bank documentation and took note of his claims, have not heard of that before.

From memory the affidavit claims breach of contract, negligence, breach of unfair terms regulations


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## Asphyxia (7 Nov 2015)

Rebuttal said:


> *Breach of duty* in negligence liability may be found to exist where the defendant fails to meet the standard of care required by law. Once it has been established that the defendant owed the claimant a duty of care, the claimant must also demonstrate that the defendant was in *breach of duty*. The test of *breach of duty* is generally objective, however, there may be slight variations to this.
> 
> Sarenco, would this apply in this case as the bank has lost the valuation reports and indeed did not supply my friend with a copy of the mortgage deeds to the various properties in contravention of section 123 and 130 Consumer Credit Act 1995 respectively.



If there is included in the loan agreement a term stating that the bank must adhere to the rules and regulations of the consumer protection act 1995 and they subsequently do not, then this term  is breached. If a term in a loan agreement is not adhere to (breached ), then it can be considered to be a breach of contract.


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## Raging Bull (7 Dec 2015)

Any update on this? Its really interesting case....nobody has nmentioned the Sale of Goods & Services acts 1980 to act with "due skill, care & diligence".

Also Causa sine Qua Non....a cause without the effect would not have happened


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