# Start Mortgages halts all repossessions as calculating arrears wrong. Tanager using the same method.



## Brendan Burgess (3 Nov 2017)

Back in 2005, I complained to the Financial Regulator that the Irish Nationwide was overstating the arrears. But I got nowhere.

I see now that the High Court in Northern Ireland has found against Bank of Scotland who calculate the arrears in the same way. 

*NI judge finds that Bank of Scotland/Tanager calculating arrears incorrectly*

I would be very interested in seeing some mortgage statements from former Irish Nationwide customers who are in arrears to see if the new owners have fixed this problem.

Brendan


----------



## RedOnion (18 Nov 2017)

Hi Brendan,

This is not related to INBS, but a similar topic.

Looks like Start were calculating arrears incorrectly. Not sure if this was same method you referred to with INBS.

https://m.independent.ie/business/p...fter-lender-botches-its-figures-36331017.html


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Nov 2017)

I have seen the statements from some Tanager customers and they are using the same method in the Republic. 

 I understand that Michael McGrath has drawn the above court case to the attention of the Central Bank. Hopefully, they will step in and halt Tanager's repossession cases as well. 

Brendan


----------



## RedOnion (21 Nov 2017)

Some more info on this that was picked up in bond prospectus earlier in the year.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...ders-broke-debt-restructuring-rules-1.3069142


----------



## Brendan Burgess (21 Nov 2017)

Interesting that there is no mention of Tanager. 

Two have reported problems 

Lone Star - €420m of loans from BoSI and Start Mortgages 

Mars Capital - Oaktree - €320m of loans from  Irish Nationwide and Springboard 

The Lone Star vehicle said that the outcome of any investigation may result in delays “in any enforcement against the relevant borrower”.

While I appreciate that it's difficult to understand and explain, the Irish Times report doesn't fully understand what has gone wrong here: 

"The Central Bank has started to examine whether mortgage lenders mishandled some borrowers who have availed of the most popular form of debt restructuring on offer for distressed home loans."

If a borrower agreed an arrears capitalisation with the lender, then the mortgage repayment was calculated correctly. 

However, if there was agreement to capitalise arrears, then the repayments were calculated incorrectly. Because the bank both capitalised the arrears and pursued them at the same time.

Brendan


----------



## Nel (22 Nov 2017)

I am currently with Tanager and have been before the County Registrar once so far. I am paying the full mortgage repayments now but I want to pay extra off the arrears which has already decreased by 14,000. How can I tell if they have miscalculated the arrears balance?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (22 Nov 2017)

Hi Nel 

I would guess, and it's only a wild guess, that the arrears are probably overstated by around 10% to 20%. In other words, if your arrears are €40,000, the correct figure should be around €36,000. 

So, how much do they say your arrears are and how much are you planning to pay off your arrears? 

Brendan


----------



## Nel (29 Nov 2017)

Hi Brendan, they say my arrears stand at 66,000 at the moment. I would like to pay an extra €300 every month to get them down. The Registrar ordered that we submit a SFS again and meet with the bank, ordering that a representative from Tanager should be there along with their solicitor. To be honest I found the Registrar very fair. I watched a few cases before mine and I thought she handled them well, including mine. I hope I am not eating those words when I am before her next time! As we know, Tanager don't like to meet face to face, so I thought it was good that she ordered them to have a meeting.


----------



## Poldara (24 Dec 2017)

I don't even have BOSI on my folio, it's goes as far back as the Governor & Company of BOS, which were dissolved in 2007. I am  in the process of going through the PRA at the moment under section 19.1 of the land registry act and will  also  be taking a case. BOSI nor BOS plc where never registered as owners of the charge so therefore it was a mistake to allow the transfer to Tanager.


----------



## Open air (4 Jan 2018)

Check out todays irish independent, charlie weston is writing about this today!

https://www.independent.ie/business...es-after-arrears-miscalculation-36457385.html


----------



## Brendan Burgess (11 May 2018)

Start does not appear to have halted all possession proceedings.

I was in the Dublin Registrars Court yesterday and they succeeded in getting an order. It was very well deserved.

2008 - borrowed €267k
Balance today: €350 k
Arrears €83k (Although it wasn't pointed out in court, these numbers make no sense. The actual arrears are far higher than €83k)
Last payment made: June 2012

Legal proceedings started in 2014  (And that is after all the CCMA, Mortgage Arrears REsolution Process etc.)

Order granted today - 4 years later.

In going through the paperwork, there was an affidavit on file about the recalculation of the arrears figure. But they pointed out that the balance due has not changed.  Just the arrears figure.

So it seems to me that if someone is in deep arrears, the miscalculation doesn't really matter. If you have not paid anything in 6 years, does it matter if the arrears figure is €83k and not the €103k they were looking for?

I would guess that some Registrars would use it as an excuse for not granting an order. 

In another case, where the arrears were €18,000 on a loan of €130,000, the issue of recalculation was not raised at all.  The borrower kept repeating that he had asked for an "itemised statement" but all they provided him with was annual statements since the start of the mortgage. 

Brendan


----------



## Open air (12 May 2018)

You are 100% correct on that ides, they have only gone back to april 2014.


----------

