# What is sufficient mileage to warrant diesel?



## Caveat (8 Oct 2007)

Am maybe considering a "Focus sized" hatch but haven't yet lived in my new rural location for a year (there might be the odd surprise high mileage trip) but I reckon annual mileage will be about 16,000 miles.

I'm not sure that it would quite justify diesel, but what with maybe better resale, a welcome increase in torque, it might still be worth it.

Any thoughts?

_Edit: OK sorry, just read a comment by Petermack in a thread below mentioning 25K as being a figure when it becomes economical to buy diesel._

Cost saving aside, what are the other good reasons to change?


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## z109 (8 Oct 2007)

Chip fat. Start saving it now!


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## Slim (8 Oct 2007)

Pulling power. I upgraded mine as I had bought a caravan.


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## MichaelDes (8 Oct 2007)

12,000 miles plus, warrants a diesel.


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## Caveat (8 Oct 2007)

Thanks

OK - someone saying 25K & another 12K - even if the 25K was km, that's still nearly 16K m.

Anyone else any ideas about this?

The torque thing seems to be agreed and I guess less frequent (though more expensive) servicing should be considered. In all, possibly slightly cheaper to service over say a 3 year period? 

Can you hope to recoup some of the extra cost involved in buying a diesel at resale time? I think that's often been suggested too.

As long as you get a fairly refined engine, I can see no downside to buying diesel other than the performance aspect and that there is generally less choice of cars - would that be accurate?


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## UpTheBanner (8 Oct 2007)

From my experience of Audi 1.9 TDI's; diesel is cheaper than petrol and you'll get more mpg than a petrol engine of similar size. Service intervals are the same, tax and insurance are the same. Depreciation is less so IMHO there does not seem to be a "cut off" mileage point.

You mentioned a Focus and i believe there is a 1.6 and a 1.8 diesel version.


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## xt40 (8 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> other than the performance aspect


do you mean the better performance that modern diesels offer over their petrol equivalents


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## Caveat (8 Oct 2007)

xt40 said:


> do you mean the better performance that modern diesels offer over their petrol equivalents


 
 

Well I suppose acceleration from standstill would be the main area in which diesels would be lacking - no?


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## Caveat (8 Oct 2007)

UpTheBanner said:


> From my experience of Audi 1.9 TDI's; diesel is cheaper than petrol


 
Cheaper in what way?



UpTheBanner said:


> Service intervals are the same


 
I thought broadly speaking petrol was every 10K but diesel every 30K?


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## z109 (8 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> Well I suppose acceleration from standstill would be the main area in which diesels would be lacking - no?


But many are TDI. My skoda (1998 1.9 TDI) easily outstarts the missus 05 corolla (1.6 VVTI).
You seem to get a bigger engine for the same insurance with a diesel (?).


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## Caveat (8 Oct 2007)

yoganmahew said:


> But many are TDI. My skoda (1998 1.9 TDI) easily outstarts the missus 05 corolla (1.6 VVTI).
> You seem to get a bigger engine for the same insurance with a diesel (?).


 
I'm surprised - out of interest I asked for an insurance quote for a Golf TDI - massive hike compared to a 1.6 - in fact they treated it almost the same as a GTi.

Maybe the Golf TDI is particularly powerful? I'm not sure.

But if it's your experience that you're not penalised for your Skoda TDI then it's worth thinking about, sure.  So are you being charged roughly the same compared to the Corolla?


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## Jeff_24 (8 Oct 2007)

I'd say about 20k depending on the car. Most people buy diesel luxury cars e.g Merc S320 CDI because they have remotely decent fuel economy compared to their petrol stablemates.


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## z109 (8 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> I'm surprised - out of interest I asked for an insurance quote for a Golf TDI - massive hike compared to a 1.6 - in fact they treated it almost the same as a GTi.
> 
> Maybe the Golf TDI is particularly powerful? I'm not sure.
> 
> But if it's your experience that you're not penalised for your Skoda TDI then it's worth thinking about, sure.  So are you being charged roughly the same compared to the Corolla?


A golf is a golf - all forms are for boy racers (according to insurers); some just do higher mileage.

Yup, almost no difference. Check it out on one of the online insurance sites, it think it was 20 euro difference for me (1 years full license, 4 years named driver). Quinn Direct was where I looked, but didn't renew! Got a better quote the second year from insure.ie


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## Caveat (9 Oct 2007)

OK Thanks all

Jeff24, when you say 20K are you talking m or km?


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## fago (10 Oct 2007)

Just changed from a 1.7 vetec petrol to 1.6hdi diesel..28mpg on petrol  and 47mpg on diesel  I do mostly short hops so my saving on fuel will (nearly) pay for my car and i managed to come up a few years as well!!!.


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## UpTheBanner (11 Oct 2007)

Diesel is cheaper to purchase than petrol e.g. 1.08 euro versus 1.15 euro.

Service intervals can be upto 30k for a VAG diesel depending on many variables however my mechanic outlined that although synthetic oil is suitable for long service intervals, items such as fuel/air filters have a greatly reduced effectiveness and thus potentially shorten the lifespan of the engine. Therefore I service our cars every 10k miles.

PS the mechanic is trustworthy


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## Jeff_24 (11 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> OK Thanks all
> 
> Jeff24, when you say 20K are you talking m or km?



Miles.


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## leex (11 Oct 2007)

About the year 2000 I was buying a new car and the option of diesel crossed my mind.

I did an Excel spreadsheet with a comparison between a new Golf 1.4 petrol and a Golf TDI 1.9. Price (repayments on full price over 5 years), tax (€100 more) and insurance (£100 more) were taken into account. I used a combined 45mpg for the petrol and 55mpg for the diesel. There was 10p difference in price between petrol and diesel at the time. I ignored resale as this can vary depending on loads of factors. Servicing and wear/tear was also ignored.

I came to the conclusion that over a 3yr span I would have to be doing 25k miles per year for the extra cost of purchase, tax and insurance of the diesel to be cancelled out by the cheaper fuel costs. 

So to summarise at end of year 3 I would be financially no better/worse off but may possibly have a more valuable car in the diesel.


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## xt40 (11 Oct 2007)

leex said:


> I ignored resale as this can vary depending on loads of factors.


as diesels both hold their value better and are easier to sell on than petrols your comparison and conclusions are therefore complete rubbish


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## Caveat (11 Oct 2007)

Mmmm

Still undecided on this - but thanks all for the replies.


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## xt40 (11 Oct 2007)

i think you should go and order a shiny new 1.4 petrol almera . you will be much happier and wont be fretting about the decision  afterwards


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## leex (11 Oct 2007)

> as diesels both hold their value better and are easier to sell on than petrols your comparison and conclusions are therefore complete rubbish


 
I think xt40 you should read my post again before posting ignorant remarks.

2 points to re-read in particular:

* I came to the conclusion that over a 3yr span I would have to be doing 25k miles per year for *the extra cost of purchase, tax and insurance of the diesel to be cancelled out by the cheaper fuel costs. *

* So to summarise at end of year 3 I would be financially no better/worse off *but may possibly have a more valuable car in the diesel.*


For what it's worth have a look at this link: Carzone - 2004 year Golf's (3 years as per my example) - mix of Petrol & Diesels - not a big difference in price between petrol & diesel.
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/inde...&Model=Golf&ModelID=281&Year=2004&GroupID=738


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## soy (12 Oct 2007)

xt40 said:


> i think you should go and order a shiny new 1.4 petrol almera . you will be much happier and wont be fretting about the decision  afterwards



Its been replaced by the Tiida - the saloon version of which is arguably even more bland than the Almera !!!

[broken link removed]


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## xt40 (12 Oct 2007)

i saw one of those and assumed it was some kind of micra with a boot stuck on. god its ugly


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## galwaytt (13 Oct 2007)

Well, I've just done a cost/analysis for both 3 and 5 years with the following cars.
1. 2004 Alfa Romeo GT 2.0 petrol Selespeed
2. 1993 Porsche 968 Tiptronic 3.0 Petrol
3. 1994 Porsche 993 Tiptronic 3.6 Petrol
4. 2005 Mazda RX8 1.8 Petrol
5. 2004 Alfa Romeo GT 1.9 diesel
6. 2007 Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 Petrol Selespeed - brand new.

Bit of an eclectic bunch, I'm sure you'll agree, but all met the requirements for 4 seats and style (ok, I'm shallow, so sue me....  )

I included purchase price, borrowings for anything in excess 20k to buy over 3 & 5 yrs, depreciation, tax, insurance, servicing and fuel.  It's based on my mileage of 5k p.a., so bear that in mind.

And winners were, in the 3 yrs category, with the cheapest at the top of the pile.... (drum roll, please...)
Porsche 968 3.0 petrol
AR GT 1.9 Diesel
AR 2.0 GT & 156 - tie
Mazda RX8
Porsche 993

More importantly though, the difference between first place (968) second place (the AR GT 1.9 Diesel) is a staggering..............Eur11,000 over 3 years.    

And the winners in the 5 yrs category are...........

Porsche 968 - again
AR GT 1.9 diesel & 156 2.0 petrol - tie
Mazda RX8
AR GT 2.0 Selespeed
Porsche 993

This time, the 968 beat the others into 2nd place by........Eur 13,000 over the 5 years !!   Holy Schweppes !

Armed with this irrefutable evidence, we have sold our 07 Galaxy and replaced it with an 02 Mazda...........and I'm off to buy a Porsche    !!


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## steph1 (13 Oct 2007)

soy said:


> Its been replaced by the Tiida - the saloon version of which is arguably even more bland than the Almera !!!
> 
> [broken link removed]



Tiida. Woeful looking car


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