# Starting a Family During a Recession - Hugely Anxious About It - Advice Please



## Pearl (2 Oct 2012)

I am fairly anxious/worried about this prospect from a financial perspective. I know there are some sagacious contributors to this site - some with wombs - so thought I'd put my thoughts here to see if you have any advice for me.

I have been working in a decent enough role for the past 4.5 yrs with decent benefits in terms of pension, health insurance etc. I am the main "bread-winner" of the household with a 60K salary. My husband's salary is 32K, no pension or benefits of any kind - and a huge chunk of that goes on petrol travelling 160 kms a day to a job outside Dublin. We are based in Dublin, have a negative equity mortgage that amounts to €1,400 a month and is likely to rise. We have no other debts.

My husband likes his job well enough. Due to a number of changes over the past few years, I really dislike mine. There is a lack of leadership, I have had to spend hours on my laptop every day during my "holidays" - and I am thinking of applying for other jobs - at larger firms where I can take a genuine holiday, where there are support structures, proper HR etc.

What is stopping me is that we want to start a family. I could be expecting now for all I know, and I feel "trapped" in my current role as I am afraid to switch job and to have the break the news that I am expecting 6 or 7 months into a new role where I want to be taken seriously.

I guess I am just looking for advice from any lady contributors who have found themselves in similar positions. We would have 2 children maximum, and I don't know if it's better to take maternity pay, but then quit and have child 2 a.s.a.p. - take 2 years out before returning. The husband's salary being what it is has me terrified of the consequences of doing this. I really hate the idea of leaving a 6 month old in day care for what would amount to a 10 hour day due to commute times. It's a huge life question that has arisen out of something good (relative career success), but which is also eating away at me. I am very conscious too of age. I am 36 now, and would be 39 or maybe 40 when trying to re-enter the workforce were I to take time out. 

Part of me thinks I should stick with current role, head down, don't rock the boat, even though I am very unhappy with the status quo.

The other part of me wants to say "screw it" and switch job now to a role that I might actually be excited to return to post baby.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Pearl


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## Vanilla (2 Oct 2012)

My opinion would be to go for a job you love. Years ago I quit a job where I was miserable while pregnant. I thought I would never get a job again for a while! I went for a few interviews and was upfront about being pregnant. In fact although I didnt get offered some of the positions, I was offered a few, though not at a salary that I expected. My belief was that this was because I was pregnant and the firms had a reasonable expectation that I might have another child. Although I had the experience and qualifications, this was a big disincentive to them to hire me. I then took a job as a locum, on a contract position for 5/6 months. This led to being offered a permanent position as I had proven myself during that time. I do think the reality is that firms, in general, do not want to hire pregnant women ( or have to deal with someone who takes up a position and then goes on maternity soon thereafter) but if you prove yourself at the job, that's all you can do. If they are long-sighted enough, they will know that, aside from the hassle of the years when you are taking maternity, they may well have an excellent employee for decades ahead. And if they aren't, well too bad for them. You have to look out for yourself in the first instance while being honest about your intentions.


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## Sue Ellen (2 Oct 2012)

You're probably better off not taking my advice as I always go for the safe route but here goes:

Unless you have excellent qualifications and experience it will be very hard to match a salary of €60,000 in these troubled times.  With one or two children employers may also place this against you even though we all know that they shouldn't do so.

On my glass half empty view I feel that quite a number of jobs are available at the moment because they are high stress along with other problems.  I have seen a number of situations where people have left and their colleague is expected to double their workload.  When this has not worked out they are told 'to get on with it'.  You could be going from the frying pan into the fire at a time in your life where you especially don't need it.

Would the option of a stay-at-home father be a possibility for your husband for a few years if there was not much difference financially between creche fees and his salary.  That would certainly take a lot of the pressure off you.  Throw the figures into www.taxcalc.eu and see how it looks.

Sorry to be so negative but we all need to tread carefully at the moment.


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## Vanilla (2 Oct 2012)

I think Sue Ellen is right- what was I thinking, *don't* take my advice. Looking back I must have been mad! I don't regret it as it turned out okay for me and I really hated that job but still...


You might get more views/opinions in another section, though?


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## Bronte (2 Oct 2012)

Life is what you have to make of it. In your case you have a well paid job, try and sort out the issues there before even contemplating leaving. It is a recession and two people earning 90K are lucky indeed. 90K cushions a recession very well, particularly if there are children.  No job and kids is a different story, having a child may change your perspective, it changes you as a woman.  

One thing I do know is that you cannot wait to have a child. 36 is the limit. Worry about the future later and go for it. 

Is there a way of moving home so that you both can commute less and have a more balanced worklife, that's the kind of thing you need to look at, one starting early, one finishing early.


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## Vanilla (2 Oct 2012)

Bronte said:


> having a child may change your perspective, it changes you as a woman.


 
This is very true, or at least it certainly changed me.


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## Mynydd (2 Oct 2012)

I was listening earlier today to Facebook's COO Sheryl Sandberg speaking on TED about why there are too few women leaders and she was saying:
Don’t “leave” before you leave. Stay in, and keep your foot on the gas pedal. And _then_ make your decisions.

Bronte is correct, don't wait too long but I would not leave the job before that. It may take a long time to conceive, and you could earn a nice nest egg in the mean time. Will you get maternity top-ups in your current job?

From my perspective, I had my second baby sooner (3 years age gap now) as I knew I was going to be made redundant. Actually, it was still an unexpected pregnancy as I was and still not convinced that we can afford the second one! The redundancy has been delayed. I now find it very stressfull trying to find a job with good office hours, to enable me to get to the creche and to have some money left after paying creche! On the other hand ; i enjoyed top-up maternity pay, health care et cetera and to have a clean slate when I hopefully land a new job.

Good luck with your dilemma.


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## wbbs (2 Oct 2012)

Don't leave a well paying job like that, this is not the time in the economy to be doing that, have your children asap, make the best of your maternity leave and hope for the economy to improve!


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## Pearl (2 Oct 2012)

I was refreshing like a mad yoke earlier and there were 0 replies. I was so happy to find your replies when I refreshed just now - and from the people who I hoped would respond. A sincere thank you for the advice. 

Bronte - Is 36 really the limit? If first one is born at 37 and second one born 38 or 39, will that make me the Granny at the school gates? Wait a second, I won't be at the school gates as I will be at work - at least I won't embarrass them with my wrinkles.  When you say "90K cushions a recession very well, particularly if there are children" - do children add to income? I assumed they would drain income.

The thought of hubby staying home did cross my mind. Honestly, (and I acknowledge the total irrationality of this), the thought makes me wildly jealous! I am hugely maternal and the thoughts of seeing my potential babies for an hour in the evening and on weekends is heart breaking - to the point where I fantasize about filing for bankruptcy to rid myself of mortgage debt and start afresh as a stay-at-home Mommy. That being said, I'd obviously much rather these yet-to-exist children be with a parent than an alternative should I continue working - so yes, stay-at-home husband is a viable alternative. And he's much better at house-keeping than I am!

My main issue with the current job is that I work with an unadulterated idiot who is my only counterpart. I should be able to work with him on a team, but he's a miserable, selfish person who I'd LOVE to never have to see again. And this is the only person I have ever felt this way about in my life. I have a long history of getting on very well with all types of people. I swear.

So the general consensus seems to be "suck it up, lady. don't make a move in the current climate. get pregnant a.s.a.p."

I sincerely appreciate the advice here. I work in an office with 11 people, 3 of which are female - none of whom have children, or plan to have children - so I can't really talk about it to anyone with experience. Thank you for the friendly ear and the sound advice. It is really helpful.

Pearl


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## Bronte (3 Oct 2012)

Vanilla said:


> I think Sue Ellen is right- what was I thinking, *don't* take my advice.


 
Very funny, probably your first post was you in successful businesswomen mode and then you started to think about the kids and became the mummy you with the reality and practicalities of life.  Women cannot have it all.


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## Bronte (3 Oct 2012)

Pearl said:


> ISo the general consensus seems to be "suck it up, lady. don't make a move in the current climate. get pregnant a.s.a.p."


 
Basically yes, you got it.  

In relation to the 90K, what I mean is you are so lucky you can afford it.  I think you may need to tackle your mortgage, but you haven't asked so I won't comment further.  

About age, don't leave it any longer.  Don't assume your husband wants to stay at home, it might suit you but it may not suit him.  And certainly don't be jealous if he does, I couldn't wait to get back after maternity leave, me at home with kids would be a disaster for my mental health, don't know how yummy mommies do it. 

Just go for it Pearl, you'll be glad. Best thing ever.   Most of the time anyway  Not today  But tomorrow will be better


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## Vanilla (3 Oct 2012)

And er, about being jealous of the husband staying at home, believe me there WILL be days when you are on maternity leave where you are watching him go out the door to work with daggers in your eyes.

Is the industry you work in too 'small' to apply for other jobs without being found out in your current position?


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## reddanmm (3 Oct 2012)

I agree with bronte and vanilla not a good idea to give up your job . It does seem idyllic to be able to stay at home and raise your kids but the reality is very different especially when you have worked all your life 
you will be down 60k a year and you will struggle to survive on 30k . Have your baby and use your maternity leave to take stock of the situation . You could apply for other jobs when you are on leave .

I have 3 girls and i have always worked and still do (thank god) and i dont feel my children lost out on my time in fact i feel it has made them more independent. They are not any less loved than a child with a stay at home parent. 
Things always have a way of working out and i am sure it will for you but giving up work would be madness .  Best of luck


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## Charley (3 Oct 2012)

You'll probably find that your current feeling of jealousy towards your husband will disappear once you have a baby and you realise that you both have different strengths and he'll probably be better at some of the baby tasks than you are!  
I used to feel like that too before baby arrived but now I would be delighted to have Dada at home with the baby so that I could call home as often as I wanted and find out how things were going and he would put the baby on the phone to me etc. 
Of course you'd prefer to be at home yourself but in comparison to you both working full time and leaving the baby at a creche, Dada at home will be like the next best thing to you being there.  Your own feelings for your preference to stay at home will be overtaken by wanting your baby to be content and in your circumstances, your husband would be the next best option to yourself.

As for your age, I would concur with the views expressed saying don't wait too long.  I was a late starter myself and you never know how long it could take to conceive.  Even if you have the first one soon, the sibling doesn't always appear in the timeframe you have planned for!


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## Pearl (3 Oct 2012)

Bronte said:


> Basically yes, you got it.
> 
> I think you may need to tackle your mortgage, but you haven't asked so I won't comment further.



Consider the question asked! Do you see something scary for me down the road?

Thanks very much for the additional responses. It's got the mental cogs going, and I'm beginning to develop a vision of how much stress could be neutralised by one of us being at home. Cheers!

Will I be kicked off this site if I come back to ask for breast-feeding tips? Don't worry. That's a joke. Well actually, that *is* a legitimate money-saver question when you think about it! Formula and sterilisers are 'spensive!


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## reddanmm (3 Oct 2012)

Ha ha well if you give up your job you won't have much of a choice on that issue .


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## Bronte (4 Oct 2012)

Pearl said:


> Consider the question asked! Do you see something scary for me down the road?


 
I was wondering on such a relatively high income why you aren't overpaying your mortgage, because you specifically mentioned negative equity.  No I don't see anything scary, but negative equity curtails your options.  

Also you mentioned the high cost your husband has to commute.  A hugh chunk of his salary.  Do you have two cars, is he driving a gas guzzler?  

No problem on breast feeding tips, another expertise of mine  it's the only way to go.  Sadly though I heard the statistic for Ireland was only 5% which is quite shocking.  I don't think the lads on here like talking about it though, but it is allowed, but maybe you'd be better off on one of the mums websites.


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## Nige (4 Oct 2012)

I'm going against the grain here but I'd suggest that, if you are really miserable in your job, that you look for another job. You may not get one or you might. You could start a new job and find out you are pregnant shortly afterwards - but that should only set you back for a short time. 

You have to remember too that you might not get pregnant and you could find yourself, a few years down the line, still stuck in that job that you hate.


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## dmos87 (4 Oct 2012)

Just to pipe in from a currently expecting first-time mums perspective. I'm only 25 (we started young), and our salaries are nothing compared to yours, but having done heaps of calculations we know financially we can survive (partly cos we earn small salaries anyways and I am a ninja at saving  ). We knew that for us and our situation we had no justifiable reason to wait.  Having a family was, is and always will be the most important thing for us and with fertility issues high in my family it meant waiting was not something we were prepared to do. 

I'm so so glad we didn't wait. My son isn't even here and I am besotted already with every movement he makes. He has already given me so much happiness that there is no way this was a wrong decision - I feel far too content for it to be so. Its already given me a new perspective on things - I'm more patient and relaxed about every aspect of my life, which is odd as I'm usually a stress bucket. What used to be vitally important no longer is. 

The country might be in a recession right now but it will pass, it always does. Your window of opportunity to have a family will also pass and, I really don't mean this negatively but for your consideration only, fertility is hugely affected by age. There are higher chances of syndromes the older you are, and lots more to consider. I am 25, which is an ideal age for pregnancy and I am *exhausted* everyday, uncomfortable, moody, and as my husband puts it, living with me can be like a minefield. I get weepy at the ISPCA ad's on TV every time without fail, or when I see an old person on their own (I'm weepy thinking about it). If I had to do this at a later stage in life when I don't have the same level of natural energy I don't know if I would get through it. I certainly wouldn't be leaving it for later again!! Even though pregnancy is hard on you physically, mentally and emotionally, its a gift and needs to be treated as such.

You badly want a family and I have to urge you to go for it now, before its too late and you have such a huge regret that you cannot undo and only makes you sad every day.


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## FioBi (4 Oct 2012)

Dont give up your job yet and get pregnant straight away. Take all your maternity leave and the extra unpaid leave if you can afford it. (I regret not doing this as I changed jobs while I was pregnant on condition I took a short maternity leave - bad idea)

When you have your kids you will pay a lot less attention to the idiot in the office because work becomes much less important in your life as the kids are the most important thing in your life. 

Think of it like this - you are only going to take two breaks for maternity leave over the course of a 40+ years working life so take the maximum leave. 

And lastly grow a pair and dont bring home the laptop on your holidays. You are legally entitled to take holidays and its no wonder you are fed up with work you never get a break. I guarantee you that you wont have time to do this when you have kids so stop now and work will be just fine.


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## Kkma (4 Oct 2012)

Even if you get pregnant tonight it would be 15 or more months before going back to work... Things could have changed in your workplace by then, or things might change with your husbands work. Nobody can predict the future. Go for it now and take things as they come.


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## Vanilla (4 Oct 2012)

dmos87 said:


> , I really don't mean this negatively but for your consideration only, fertility is hugely affected by age. There are higher chances of syndromes the older you are, and lots more to consider. I am 25, which is an ideal age for pregnancy and I am *exhausted* everyday, uncomfortable, moody, and as my husband puts it, living with me can be like a minefield. .


 
I hope the OP isn't discouraged by this. Everyone's different and every pregnancy is different. I was in my 30s for both of my pregnancies and sailed through them. I worked right up to each child was born- I was even in work the actual day my second was born.


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## Sue Ellen (4 Oct 2012)

Pearl said:


> Consider the question asked! Do you see something scary for me down the road?
> 
> Thanks very much for the additional responses. It's got the mental cogs going, and I'm beginning to develop a vision of how much stress could be neutralised by one of us being at home. Cheers!



This previous thread may be useful info wise and it would be a good idea for you to post the figures in the template on the Money Makeover forum so that others can give  you some financial advice.



Pearl said:


> Will I be kicked off this site if I come back to ask for breast-feeding tips? Don't worry. That's a joke. Well actually, that *is* a legitimate money-saver question when you think about it! Formula and sterilisers are 'spensive!



Bronte's advice is good 



Bronte said:


> No problem on breast feeding tips, another expertise of mine  it's the only way to go.  Sadly though I heard the statistic for Ireland was only 5% which is quite shocking.  I don't think the lads on here like talking about it though, but it is allowed, but maybe you'd be better off on one of the mums websites.


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## Ollie11 (4 Oct 2012)

You just need to ask yourself one question: If I got pregnant accidentally how would I feel? You will never regret having a baby but if you don't go for it you sure will regret it.


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## Bronte (5 Oct 2012)

dmos87 said:


> I'm so so glad we didn't wait. My son isn't even here and I am besotted already with every movement he makes. He has already given me so much happiness that there is no way this was a wrong decision - I feel far too content for it to be so. Its already given me a new perspective on things - I'm more patient and relaxed about every aspect of my life, which is odd as I'm usually a stress bucket. What used to be vitally important no longer is.


 

That's a lovely post, so glad to see someone so happy.  Congratulations dmos87.


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## horse (5 Oct 2012)

Ollie11.....................How do you get pregnant accidentally?


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## dmos87 (5 Oct 2012)

Vanilla said:


> I hope the OP isn't discouraged by this. Everyone's different and every pregnancy is different. I was in my 30s for both of my pregnancies and sailed through them. I worked right up to each child was born- I was even in work the actual day my second was born.




My post wasn't meant to discourage her, the complete opposite! I know that every woman's body reacts differently to pregnancy, and other than the exhaustion and moodiness  I have been very lucky in comparison to most of the women I know or work with. One thing that is generally universal is the tiredness you feel. I am still working, 7 weeks to go until I finish up.

What I meant to point out with this was that starting a new job in a new company while you are going through such a huge physical and mental change can be overwhelming. I have to agree with others, stay where you are and take the full maternity leave, decisions can be made while you are out. And definitely leave the laptop at work on holidays!!


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## muffin1973 (5 Oct 2012)

Pearl, just adding my two cents in here, I stayed in a job I disliked for a couple of years (had been there 4 already) while waiting to get pregnant.  I'm now nearly 39 and still not pregnant, we've been trying nearly 4 years.  I ended up moving on.  I think if you can get a new job that you enjoy better than you do the current one (and it is soul destroying working in a job with someone you intensely dislike, I know) then go for it.  Because you mightn't get pregnant that quickly.  Hopefully you will but it's just not guaranteed, so don't put your life on hold for something that may take longer than you expect to happen.

M


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## Black Sheep (5 Oct 2012)

The idea of hubby being the homemaker seems like a very good option but he needs to be sure this is what he wants. Would he consider taking his 14 weeks Parental leave when you return from Maternity leave. If he is happy in the new role then continue, if not return to work.

I think most parents will agree that the costs of one child in creche may be manageable but 2 + mortgage, travel,tax and other associated work costs wipes out the second salary.

Don't forget Homemakers PRSI credits to protect his pension. I realize I'm jumping way ahead with but it needs to be taken into account for when you are both grandparents!

Best of luck with whatever you decide


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## Pearl (10 Oct 2012)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I appreciate it immensely. I since had a convo with the hubby about the prospect of being a stay-at-home Dad. He wasn't really up for it. Was sort of horrified at the suggestion. He's hoping to move job in the short term to eliminate the money-drain of the commute.

Since I last wrote, I have discovered that I am "a little bit pregnant". This happened *way* quicker than expected, so we spent the past weekend letting the reality sink in.

So I guess the decision is made for the moment. Stay put, and try to find a way of coping with my sociopath of a colleague.

Thanks everyone - no doubt we'll meet again in the money makeover section at some point over the next few months!


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## Nige (10 Oct 2012)

congratulations.


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## Vanilla (10 Oct 2012)

Congratulations Pearl, great news.


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## LM26 (10 Oct 2012)

Congratulations!


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## Mynydd (10 Oct 2012)

Congrats! Delighted for you! Another breast feeding expert here, the way to go


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## Pearl (1 Nov 2012)

Just a wee update on my situation + a question. So my husband has surprised me by switching job from the one that paid 32K to one that pays 50K. It's in Dublin, so will save loads of money on petrol too. I just used some tax calculators to see what the difference in his take home would be. It seems that a salary hike of 18K equates to a take-home hike of just 6K. Pretty sure this is just the nature of the beast with the tax bands. It's the first time I have come face to face with the impact (I've only ever worked in Ireland at the higher rate) and am kind of astonished. I would love to hear that I have miscalculated!


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## wbbs (1 Nov 2012)

Shouldn't lose that much, would have thought it would be nearer to 50%+

(Must have missed your last updates, congratulations!)


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## Dermot (1 Nov 2012)

I would have thought that your husband would be gaining a bit over 8K in take home pay


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## Pearl (1 Nov 2012)

Sorry - just used the calc on Deloitte.ie.

So 32K gross gave him take home of 27.9K, while 50K gross gives him take home of 38.6K.

So a hike of 18K gross amounts to a hike of just over 10.7K net. 

Today I learned that Irish taxation is very harsh once you cross into that upper band. Sheesh. If we could point to excellent public services to justify it.......

I suppose I should look into joint assessment. Does that usually work out better for married folk?

As you can probably tell, we're pretty clueless.


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## Sue Ellen (1 Nov 2012)

Hi Pearl,

Sorry I missed your good news, congratulations.

If you try using www.taxcalc.eu it should be able to help with the calculations.  If not you could post on the money makeover forum or tax to see if anyone can advise you there.


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## RichInSpirit (2 Nov 2012)

I was going to say that the stay at home husband is a good idea (if he's agreeable, of course. I know someone who is a stay at home dad and he will never go back to work , even when the children are grown up . But he's dead happy in his role !
I'm not sure if I should be replying to this thread


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