# References - been with current employer over 10 years



## Olympian (10 Feb 2008)

After over 10 years with my current employer I've decided to move on. I've seen an ad for a job that I'd really like but the required references / referees are causing me a bit of a headache. 

They want to know 3 work related referees and want to contact 2 of these BEFORE interview to gauge suitability. Having worked for the same company for so long I can’t offer any previous referees. 

Also an offer of employment would be made subject to receipt of satisfactory references including from my current employer. This seems unreasonable to me. I don't want to broadcast the fact that I'm looking for another job. I've no problem allowing the prospective employer to get references but I feel it should be after they have made a firm job offer. 

What's the norm with this type of thing? Surely references should be sought AFTER a job offer not before. Even requesting references before interview seems bizarre to me.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Feb 2008)

Actually, I think it's bizarre to check references after making a job offer. It's common practice, but it's bizarre. 

References are one of the best ways to differentiate between competing candidates for a job. I have often got a negative reference during the process  which either changed my view on the candidate or gave me some areas to probe at later interviews. 

If I get a request for a reference for an ex-employee and I know that the job offer is subject to a good reference, that makes life very difficult for me. If I give a bad reference, the employee doesn't get the job and may request a copy of the reference I gave. They may then sue me for defamation. 

If I give a good reference, and the employee does not work out, the employer might have a go at me. 

Anyway, back to your situation. You must explain to the employer that you do not have a referee apart from your current employer. They should be flexible enough to progress matters a bit further. In effect, you do not have a recent reference and they would be crazy to exclude you from the process unless they have loads of applicants. 

Brendan


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## ClubMan (10 Feb 2008)

Brendan said:


> If I get a request for a reference for an ex-employee and I know that the job offer is subject to a good reference, that makes life very difficult for me. If I give a bad reference, the employee doesn't get the job and may request a copy of the reference I gave. They may then sue me for defamation.


I thought that most employers dealt with this by giving good references where appropriate but otherwise giving neutral ones (e.g. "Joe Bloggs worked here from ... to ..." and not much else) leaving it to others to read between the lines/infer the obvious?


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## John Rambo (10 Feb 2008)

Brendan said:


> Actually, I think it's bizarre to check references after making a job offer. It's common practice, but it's bizarre.
> 
> References are one of the best ways to differentiate between competing candidates for a job. I have often got a negative reference during the process  which either changed my view on the candidate or gave me some areas to probe at later interviews.
> 
> ...


 
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to give a bad or negative reference...but you can refuse to give a reference which speaks volumes.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Feb 2008)

It is certainly not illegal to give a bad or negative reference. 

If you give a reference which is untrue or defamatory, you could be sued by either party.

Brendan


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## becky (10 Feb 2008)

References should reflect the facts. If you have a problem with an employee you should deal with. For example if an employee is not meeting targets which others are or if the employees attendance is not up to stratch, this needs to be communicated to the staff member. If the situation does not improve itwill be in order to state that the employee did not meet targets or was often late etc.. I realise these very reasons could be used to get 'rid' of the problem.

In relation to the OP post, he should contact them and inform then of his difficulty. We have cope up against this difficulty and make the offer subject to 'satisfactory' references. It doesn't always suit but its the best we can do.


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## PeterMurphy3 (10 Feb 2008)

10 years with your current employer speaks volumes to me..& sounds much more impressive to me than any number of references


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## amtc (11 Feb 2008)

The replies are not answering the basic question - references are generally requested and given after an offer is made. I can't see how anyone would ask pre job offer at least.


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## mathepac (11 Feb 2008)

Brendan said:


> Actually, I think it's bizarre to check references after making a job offer...


Nothing in the world bizarre about making a job offer "subject to receipt of satisfactory references, including one from current employer".


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Feb 2008)

I use references for assessing the quality of the person. 

A lot of people treat them as a paperwork exercize and for the reasons pointed out above, the referee is less likely to be honest if they know a job depends on it. 

Brendan


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## Olympian (11 Feb 2008)

Surely you should be able to determine someone's suitability for a position through interviewing. It may take a number of interviews but if you can conduct an interview properly it should give you a pretty good idea of their suitability. 

If you seek references before making an offer and then change your mind where does that leave the candidate? They don't have a new job and how does it look to their current employer? This really is a lose, lose situation for the job seeker.

Anyway I intend to apply explaining that I don't have any references for pre interview stage and if that's an issue well I'll keep looking.


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## Sunny (11 Feb 2008)

I think it is bizarre to look for references before interviewing and job offer stage. There is nothing to stop them making you a firm job offer conditional on satisfactory references being received from your current employer.

Last company I worked for hired an agency to do a full background check on me. They approached all my old employers but did not approach my current employer until a job offer had been made and accepted by myself.


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## Complainer (11 Feb 2008)

Is there anyone at a senior level in the current organisation that you could trust to provide a reference without spilling the beans to the powers that be?


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## Morgause (9 May 2008)

I'm in the same situation as the OP, working in the same company for a long time and now I'm looking at a job application form for a local authority position which asks for your references.  Of course at this early stage, and with no guarantee of getting the position, I hardly want to let my boss know that I want to use him as a reference!  Any advice?  Olympian - how did you get on with your strategy of noting that you can't give our references before interview?


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## FredBloggs (9 May 2008)

I was in a similar position to you and explained to my prospective new employer that if they wanted to offer me the job conditional on them getting good references then they could contact my employer.  As has been said the fact that you have been in the same position for 10 yrs speaks volumes and they should agree to a conditional job offer.  Tell them you're confident of good references and that once thejob offer is made to give you a day or so to explain to your current employer that you're leaving so that the phone call doesn't come as a bolt fromt he blue.

BTW from my experience it seems most employers seem to think all job applicants have changed jobs every couple of years.


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