# Summons for failure to produce and driving without a license



## drtop03 (18 Feb 2021)

Last summer I was walking out of my house to get something from my car. I had parked on double yellow lines the night before and there was a garda standing at my car taking details. I approached him and he asked for my license which I didnt have on me at the time. (I had a learners permit). He then asked me to move my car so I did. He asked me to produce my license and I failed to do so. I was on holiday the next day and had actually lost my permit so ultimately failed to produce. I didnt think much of it. I have now recieved 2 court summonses for failure to produce and driving without a license. 
I have no previous interactions with the law. I did have a license at the time. Does anyone have any idea of what might happen? Im terrified of going to court to be honest. 
Also, just wondering because someone told me that a garda cant ask you to produce if you werent driving the car at the time and the sumonses does say "whilst driving you were asked to produce" which is not true, I hadnt even sat in my car when he asked me to produce. Is he allowed to have asked me to produce?
Thanks for the help


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## SparkRite (18 Feb 2021)

This could be a 'sticky' one and I suspect a good/confident solicitor may well be able to get a judgement/dismissal/strike out in your favour.

Let's look at it this way, as a pedestrian the garda has no reason or grounds to ask for your driving license.
However he did and was then made aware that you did not have it to hand or indeed about your person.
He then requested that you drove your vehicle knowing that you were not in possession of a valid driving license which is an offence.
He can not have it both ways, ie. knowing that by driving (upon his request) that you were committing an offence and proceed to report you for same.

On theses grounds I would suspect that a judge could dismiss the case.
Are you absolutely sure he did not request your license (again) while you were actually driving ?

Edit. Be aware that your recollection of events may well differ from the garda's and it could come down to who the judge believes.
As I say get a good solicitor who is well used to such matters to represent you.

Oh, and stop parking on double yellowers.


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## drtop03 (18 Feb 2021)

hey,
Thanks so much for your reply I really appreciate your insight. Ill update with how the court goes at the end of march.


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## _OkGo_ (18 Feb 2021)

SparkRite said:


> Be aware that your recollection of events may well differ from the garda's


This is probably the best piece of advice and something you should consider before challenging the summons. To offer an alternative view to SparkRite's, I could easily rewrite it as:

You approached a Garda and identified yourself as the car owner. It is reasonable for them to request identification otherwise it was none of your business what they were doing (they may not have requested a license)
You were told that the the car was parked illegally and would be fined if not moved...This is different from asking you to move it (you could have accepted the fine, you were not obliged to move it)
Once you moved it, you were driving the car so they can legitimately request to see your license. It doesn't matter if it was 10ft, you still drove it.
You then failed to present to a Garda station with a valid license...This is the real issue
I agree with SparkRite that the Garda may have been a bit pedantic but your biggest problem is failing to make any attempt to produce a valid license in the subsequent days. Everything else before this is fairly minor and probably would have been excused if you produced the license at a Garda station.


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## dereko1969 (18 Feb 2021)

Potential at court for Garda to state that you drove whilst unaccompanied (OP states was on a learner permit) if you try to disprove their evidence.


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## SparkRite (18 Feb 2021)

_OkGo_ said:


> To offer an alternative view to SparkRite's, I could easily rewrite it as:


 Agreed, but it could be rewritten thousands of different ways.................

All we have to go on here is what the OP posted and that is what I based my reply on.
We have absolutely nothing else to consider, but that, anything more is pure supposition.


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## drtop03 (18 Feb 2021)

He didn’t say anything about a fine just asked me to move it and yeah I did drive around the corner unaccompanied but he had asked me to produce before I was even driving. I didn’t know I didn’t HAVE to move it cause the Garda didn’t give me an option really 
But I get where you’re coming from


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## drtop03 (18 Feb 2021)

also I also have to note I did get a fine for the parking on double yellow lines in the most about 3 weeks after and I paid it


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## Seagull (19 Feb 2021)

The driving without a license is because you failed to produce it at the station. The assumption then becomes that this is because you don't have a license. You might be able to sort that one out by going to the station now with evidence you did have a license at the time. You do then run the risk that you can only produce a learner's permit, and then get charged for driving unaccompanied instead.


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## drtop03 (19 Feb 2021)

Seagull said:


> The driving without a license is because you failed to produce it at the station. The assumption then becomes that this is because you don't have a license. You might be able to sort that one out by going to the station now with evidence you did have a license at the time. You do then run the risk that you can only produce a learner's permit, and then get charged for driving unaccompanied instead.


I have my full license now do you reckon I could go in with that?


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## LS400 (20 Feb 2021)

Absolutely, and based on that mind set, you could pick out last weeks lotto numbers and see if you can claim it.


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## Seagull (22 Feb 2021)

You could try it and hope they don't look at the dates too closely. You really have to produce the documents that were in force at the time of the incident.


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## Jim2007 (23 Feb 2021)

drtop03 said:


> I have my full license now do you reckon I could go in with that?


Are you looking for another charge or what?  These people are the professionals, there is nothing you can come up with that they have not heard before.

Consult a solicitor and do not go to court on your own.


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## drtop03 (23 Feb 2021)

Jim2007 said:


> Are you looking for another charge or what?  These people are the professionals, there is nothing you can come up with that they have not heard before.
> 
> Consult a solicitor and do not go to court on your own.


I wouldnt call the guards professional now they all got about 300 points ,not a hint of professionalism in sight from most of them. hahaha


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## 24601 (23 Feb 2021)

drtop03 said:


> I wouldnt call the guards professional now they all got about 300 points ,not a hint of professionalism in sight from most of them. hahaha


I'd have a strong suspicion that they will be quite content to throw the book at you.


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## Seagull (23 Feb 2021)

Go in with your full license, along with proof that you had a learner's permit at the time of the incident.


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## drtop03 (26 Mar 2021)

Just to let ye all know, thanks for all the advice, it got thrown out in courtttt.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Mar 2021)

Wow!

On what grounds?  It might help others.

Brendan


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## SparkRite (26 Mar 2021)

drtop03 said:


> Just to let ye all know, thanks for all the advice, it got thrown out in courtttt.



Struck out or dismissed, there is a difference ?

Also I second what Brendan said above, we're all dying to know.


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## drtop03 (3 Apr 2021)

SparkRite said:


> Struck out or dismissed, there is a difference ?
> 
> Also I second what Brendan said above, we're all dying to know.


it was struck out. What’s the difference between that and dismissed? And on the grounds that I wasn’t in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle at the time like what it had said in the summons and that I now had a full license


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## SparkRite (3 Apr 2021)

drtop03 said:


> And on the grounds that I wasn’t in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle at the time


So that would slot in with what I said above. ie.:-



SparkRite said:


> Let's look at it this way, as a pedestrian the garda has no reason or grounds to ask for your driving license.







drtop03 said:


> it was struck out. What’s the difference between that and dismissed?


'Struck out' means it may be re-entered, but generally it never is.
'Dismissed' means just that ie. has no merit, and is thrown out of court.


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## drtop03 (4 Apr 2021)

SparkRite said:


> So that would slot in with what I said above. ie.:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh sht ahahah it better not be re entered, would the gardai have to re enter it or how does that come about?


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## roker (18 Aug 2021)

I keep thinking, how did it get on to the yellow lines in the first place, he must have driven it there, and that's why he was asked for the licence


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