# Handing back keys/judgement/bankrupt



## yrrab (23 Aug 2014)

Hi everybody
I have been looking at varies threads and have not been able to find a scenario the same as mine.Here is a brief outline of my situation.

Home...fully serviced mortgage(25,000 owed finished 2017)

4 buy to lets...400,000 negative{don't want to name bank as they are watching these sites}

no other assets.

Im getting nowhere with the banks,i don't believe they will allow me go insolvent as incomes are not good enough.I am fully prepared to go bankrupt only if forced to do so.im not going to allow them bully me and Im wondering what path to take.My only concern is that they may enforce an eviction if I carry out the following action.

Hand back the keys..Do nothing..go to court after sale,get judgement on home for 12 years,(that's ok, im under 50 and not planning to sell home)

Are they likely to inforce an eviction?   Thankyou


----------



## Brendan Burgess (23 Aug 2014)

You should provide a full case study format so that you can get a proper answer. 

Brendan


----------



## virgo2011 (24 Aug 2014)

Hi,

Can u explain the following
 "Hand back the keys..Do nothing..go to court after sale,get judgement on home for 12 years,(that's ok, im under 50 and not planning to sell home)

Found this statement very interesting. I'm afraid I can't give u any advice otherwise apart from contacting perhaps The Hub in Dublin or Galway for advice! Best of luck with it, hope you get a positive result.


----------



## yrrab (24 Aug 2014)

Basically I mean,by doing nothing ill end up going down that route and end up with a 400,000 bill from the bank.my family home is a humble abode but there is equity in it.The banks will put a judgement on it.My question is..How likely are they to enforce an eviction on my ppr  in my circumstances ?


----------



## Time (24 Aug 2014)

If your PPR is worth more than €400,000 after all other liens are settled they may well try and get a well charging order to force a sale.


----------



## yrrab (24 Aug 2014)

thanks for that.The value of my ppr after mortgage is 130,000


----------



## Jim2007 (24 Aug 2014)

yrrab said:


> Hand back the keys..Do nothing..go to court after sale,get judgement on home for 12 years



Why do you assume they will go for a judgment?  I would think having you declared bankrupt would be more likely....


----------



## yrrab (25 Aug 2014)

Its very possible they might take that option,im not sure.Im interested in whether the bank forces and acts on a judgement on a family home where there is equity to be gained for the lender? 

thanks for the responce


----------



## Gerry Canning (25 Aug 2014)

yrrab; 

It is normally much better to be seen to have tried to get reasonable arrangement with Mr Bank that ends up leaving you in your home.
Handing back keys without having taken good advice is inadvisable.

Strongly advise ; have a good chat with arrears advisor and if it suits let that advisor deal with Mr Bank.

Please ensure that at all times ,that it is you who is perceived as seekng a proper closure.

From a (normal)viewpoint if Mr Bank feels you are being a (smart-ass) I suspect you will be put on their (hit) list.
However if you show good cause , I sense no appetite in chasing family homes.

And yes Banks can and will act on a judgment ,but normally they will not.


----------



## yrrab (25 Aug 2014)

Thanks Gerry, having read  a lot of different threads on this site about this topic, you are one of several people that I was hoping to hear back from.


----------



## yrrab (25 Aug 2014)

is the following the most likely route to go{with small risk to home}

Be upfront with the bank and tell them ive no assets to offer[that's the truth}

don't make myself bankrupt

allow them reposess the buy to lets

go to court when ordered to pay shortfall of 400,000

out come will be a judgement on my ppr{which they probably wont enforce }


----------



## Gerry Canning (25 Aug 2014)

yrrab; 

You are thinking too fast!. 

Get a good adviser; they will 
1. Settle you down .
2. Outline your options.
3. Give a measured opinion.

Banks normally will run with options that leave your home alone if you show a willingness to engage. 
I have a low opinion of Banks but no Bank wants to touch homes if atall possible.

Go get advice please.


----------



## Dr.Debt (25 Aug 2014)

As Brendan already pointed out earlier, you need to give a lot more information to get any sort of meaningful response

1.Are all the properties owned by you OR are they in joint ownership
2. What is / are your income(s)
3. What's your family situation, children ? ages ?
4. Who is the lender. Different lenders are approaching these cases quite differently
5. What is the current status with the lender. Have they indicated a preferred way of handling the situation


----------



## yrrab (25 Aug 2014)

thanks for your response

1..joint ownership husband and wife

2..  self employed builder{sw at present}  wife 20k

3..2 college  and school going kids

4..dont like to say who the lender is as they are watching but its one of the lesser troubled irish banks

5..they are offering a `kick it down the road`approach that is completely unaffordable to us.


----------



## Steve Thatcher (26 Aug 2014)

Gerry Canning said:


> yrrab;
> 
> You are thinking too fast!.
> 
> ...



Why will they leave the house alone if it has equity. Why would any right thinking lender with decent advisors, not take a charge over the property to hoover up the equity. I would.

Steve Thatcher


----------



## yrrab (26 Aug 2014)

Would it be that they don't want the bad publicity that goes with throwing a family out on the street?


----------



## suarez (27 Aug 2014)

steve thatcher said:


> why will they leave the house alone if it has equity. Why would any right thinking lender with decent advisors, not take a charge over the property to hoover up the equity. I would.
> 
> Steve thatcher



+1


----------



## Gerry Canning (27 Aug 2014)

suarez said:


> +1


 

I take your advice on Bank putting (charge) on family home , but how likely Is Bank they to try to enforce repossession etc on a family home eg wife owns half? 

I know the (charge) can stay on the house but if he ain,t moving?is there much point? particularly if he assists with other debts.

Would appreciate your experience on such cases.


----------



## suarez (27 Aug 2014)

The poster states that - unfortunately for them - his wife is a co-signee on the 4 BTLs and the PPR.  It's unclear from the posting - but seems probable - that it's BOI, and that BOI are the lender for all 5 loans.  Why would BOI - or whoever the 'lesser troubled bank' is - not seek to have the PPR sold.  Even in that scenario - after the selling of the PPR -  the bank would still only be recouping 25% of the money owed to them (as it's valued at 130,000 and the poster still owes 25,000 on it).  In effect, the bank would be writing off 75% of the money owed as opposed to 100% of the money owed.  If I were BOI - or any other bank for that matter - I would want the PPR as part payment in any deal.


----------



## Gerry Canning (27 Aug 2014)

suarez; 
I hear you.

Back so to 1st advice = have a competent debt advisor look at it.

From my perspective (could be naiive) I just see no taste for evictions and if poster is open with the  Bank, the Bank  may not (hammer).


----------



## yrrab (1 Sep 2014)

I have gotten an adviser on board now,I discussed the factors of going insolvent and he advised that in my case it is a possibility but he said that is  a hopeless process .He said that after the six year period is up the banks can go after you again??? surely that cant be true?


----------



## Steve Thatcher (2 Sep 2014)

yrrab said:


> I have gotten an adviser on board now,I discussed the factors of going insolvent and he advised that in my case it is a possibility but he said that is  a hopeless process .He said that after the six year period is up the banks can go after you again??? surely that cant be true?



You need to change your advisor. That is shocking advice.
Are you sure he didn't say your credit file is affected for six years?

Steve Thatcher


----------



## Bronte (2 Sep 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> You need to change your advisor. That is shocking advice.
> Are you sure he didn't say your credit file is affected for six years?
> 
> Steve Thatcher


 
It's not shocking advice, as far as I recall it is true. Burgess discussed it on here. What's shocking is the mess of our insolvency laws.

Here's on thread on it that I can find:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=181703


----------



## Steve Thatcher (2 Sep 2014)

Bronte said:


> It's not shocking advice, as far as I recall it is true. Burgess discussed it on here. What's shocking is the mess of our insolvency laws.
> 
> Here's on thread on it that I can find:
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=181703



Sorry, I assumed it was a UK situation. Really, you go bankrupt over here, but actually, it doesn't write off your debts. What sort of cockamamy system is that?

Steve Thatcher


----------



## Steve Thatcher (2 Sep 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> Sorry, I assumed it was a UK situation. Really, you go bankrupt over here, but actually, it doesn't write off your debts. What sort of cockamamy system is that?
> 
> Steve Thatcher



I I see, it's to do with PIA's. Yes I recall that. Not bankruptcy. Just one of the other solutions. But it can be negotiated away as part of the PIA. It shouldn't apply in every instance and if it is in your deal, don't do the deal.

Steve


----------



## Bronte (2 Sep 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> What sort of cockamamy system is that?


 
We have an expression for that over here, we call it the Irish solution to Irish problems. Basically in this case we take UK legislation and create a nightmare scenario.

Watch out in a few years when property goes up, people get on their feet and the banks suddently start going after extensions on insolvency.

It actually happened over where you are too. In the 80's when people defaulted on their mortgages and didn't go bankrupt etc. Meanwhile many people got back on their feet and banks swooped in just before statute of limitations. 

That's why along with you I cannot understand why more people are not doing UK bankruptcies which are legally watertight. I have an idea that the 'deals' being done currently are all going to be one sided and borrowers are blind to it after all the stress of the last few years.


----------

