# Is this a record for dentist fees ?



## JackTheKnife (16 Nov 2006)

After twenty years of putting it off I finally decided to go ahead and have one of my top two teeth crowned. 

Firstly I needed to get root canal done (One root only I may add). This happened this morning. I was recommended by my dentist to attend an orthidentist who specialises in this field.

This was the first time I had met the man and I lay down in the chair. He proceeded to do the job. Forty five minutes later (10 minutes of this was waiting for antiseptic to work before he refilled) I was down at his secretary's office and forking out €750.00 !!!

In fairness I had been told of the price beforehand but I was under the impression that I may need to attend him a few times or that I was going to be at this for a couple of hours at least.

Can any profession beat €1,000 an hour ?

Please tell me that these are the going rates.

Many thanks.


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## demoivre (16 Nov 2006)

*Re: Is this a record for dentist fees ????*

The Save on Dental Care clinic in Budapest uses  to compare Irish dental fees to their own - looks like you were charged the norm in Ireland unless the Budapest crowd were using your dentists prices for comparison purposes.


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## sharecarer (16 Nov 2006)

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That is pretty much a standard price for root canal but usually it would be done over 2/3 sessions


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## A_b (16 Nov 2006)

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JackTheKnife said:


> After twenty years of putting it off I finally decided to go ahead and have one of my top two teeth crowned.
> 
> Firstly I needed to get root canal done (One root only I may add). This happened this morning. I was recommended by my dentist to attend an orthidentist who specialises in this field.
> 
> ...


 
if you have vhi check out the vhi website and you can add dental care to your plan. Used to be better before but think they changed alot of the terms & conditions recently. Worth a look though.


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## JackTheKnife (16 Nov 2006)

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Thanks people.

I am still seriously pXXXXed off at the price. 

Assuming the dentist takes an hour for lunch he has just earned himself €7,500 and it's not even 5 o'clock yet.

Looking forward to getting the tooth crowned now !


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## ubiquitous (16 Nov 2006)

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JackTheKnife said:


> I am still seriously pXXXXed off at the price.



Why? You were quoted a price in advance. You accepted this price. You availed of this service and paid the agreed price. Perhaps you would have been happier had the dentist wasted your time and his own in unnecessarily delaying you?


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## JackTheKnife (16 Nov 2006)

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If you read my original posting again you will see that I was expecting that treatment, bearing in mind the price of it, was going to incur a lot more time and expertise by the dentist not because he was dragging his heels but because the treatment required it. 

"Perhaps you would have been happier had the dentist wasted your time and his own in unnecessarily delaying you?"

Good constructive argument.


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## Guest127 (16 Nov 2006)

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still seems expensive. daughter got 4 wisdom teeth out last year. first visit to yer man was €100 the actual cost of the extractions ( in bons ,glasnevin was €600) and bupa covered €400 of this as she is only in the most basic plan I cound find for her.and she had a check up a few weeks later which as far as I recall was included in the above.


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## ubiquitous (16 Nov 2006)

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Why should the dentist reduce his fee just because he is more efficient than you expected? 

Although I know nothing about dentistry practice, I would not be surprised if increases in efficiency are achieved through investment in expensive technology. Maybe some of the dentists here can comment?

The level of his expertise is hardly dependent on the number of hours he spends with you?


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## markowitzman (16 Nov 2006)

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ubiquitous for someone who knows nothing about dentistry you are still spot on. Endodontics is the speciality involved. Investment in technology is nothing short of phenomenal in the past ten years. It has revolutionised this treatment into a reliable procedure with very high success rate.


> Assuming the dentist takes an hour for lunch he has just earned himself €7,500 and it's not even 5 o'clock yet.


 Oh if only!! Overhead in dental practice is well over 60% of production!


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## liteweight (16 Nov 2006)

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I had root canal last year and it cost me 450. The total cost for root canal and crown was 750. The endodontist was excellent but he did take over an hour and had all the latest computer equipment, so I imagine his overheads are just as high yet he charged less.


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## rabbit (17 Nov 2006)

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JackTheKnife said:


> Can any profession beat €1,000 an hour ?


You should have gone to N. Ireland.   The dentists there are just as qualified, but unlike some Dublin dentists they do not have an ever increasing portfolio of investment properties to fund.

To answer your question....I believe some auctioneers have beat € 1000 an hour on some properties they sold.


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## markowitzman (17 Nov 2006)

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> The dentists there are just as qualified, but unlike some Dublin dentists they do not have an ever increasing portfolio of investment properties to fund.


 ah rabbit come on, are you trying to insinuate that the poor dentists are still paying the mortgages?
For pity's sake I thought it was the tenant that paid the mortgage!
At 750 per hour that Jack the knife thinks they are clearing they really should not have a mortgage on any property or am I missing something?
For your information 750/hour is not a typical hourly rate for a general dentist. Have relatives medical specialists who charge the earth but they are studying for 20 years plus so why the hell should they not charge what they are worth? I am expecting a line of replies saying go north etc but one really has to be careful as an american trained endodontist is a different animal to a general dentist doing nhs work and some private on the paddies. The guys up north can market their wares to hell where we cannot. I feel sorry for patients that go up north without knowing this. Dummer et al found 3% of root canals adequate on nhs. When they present to us they frequently have to be retreated at major expense. So moral of story is get to an endodontist or dentist with special interest in root canal for the more difficult cases either north or south. I could not care if patient goes north as long as they get good work done as due to the geographic distance we end up picking up the pieces which is a nightmare to deal with. For what it is worth I would go to the specialist with the large property portfolio etc as he must be successful and he must be good!


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## beaky (17 Nov 2006)

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Got Root canal work done 2 years ago. Cost €500.  Took 3 visits, as follows  (1)first investigation during a check-up, (2)removal of all traces of root and a temporary filling, (3) permenant filling.

Practice was very modern, x-rays displayed on the p.c. etc etc.  Was very happy to pay that.  Thought €500 was quite cheap for the relief it gave me.

However never got it crowned or capped or whatever and now 1/4 of tooth has chipped away.  That has been filled now(€38 plus PRSI) and appointment made to crown it.


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## ragazza (17 Nov 2006)

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My brother start a root canal treatment last week.
The price is 650E with an extra 70E if he chooses a white crown.

He was down last week for about 45 mins for the checkup and to extract the root and put the temporary filling. He'll go back next week to get the permanent filling.


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## markowitzman (17 Nov 2006)

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This may be of help....
http://www.aae.org/patients/faqs/rootcanals.htm


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## uncorked (17 Nov 2006)

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Needed to get root canal treatment and a crown last year.  My dentist quoted me €1200.  I went to the Dental Hospital where a fantastic dental student did the same job for approx €450, although it did take longer.


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## Megan (17 Nov 2006)

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uncorked said:


> Needed to get root canal treatment and a crown last year. My dentist quoted me €1200. I went to the Dental Hospital where a fantastic dental student did the same job for approx €450, although it did take longer.


Well done uncorked - you have helped that dental student on her/his way to be able to charge the €1,200 or whatever the charge is when they qualify. I think if you are going to be used for training purposes it should be free. Aren't we all paying our taxes to fund places like the dental hospital.


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## BlueSpud (18 Nov 2006)

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Maybe if enough of us went to Budapest the prices would come down.  dont any of you suckers try & pawn off the cost of the equipment.  At 7.5k a day you could kit out a factory.


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## markowitzman (18 Nov 2006)

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> Maybe if enough of us went to Budapest the prices would come down.


 To be honest I am so busy I wish some would! From this thread I really should raise my fees to make life a bit easier for myself as I think I am too cheap!!


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## Ash (21 Nov 2006)

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BlueSpud said:


> Maybe if enough of us went to Budapest the prices would come down.  dont any of you suckers try & pawn off the cost of the equipment.  At 7.5k a day you could kit out a factory.



I an also astounded at some of the fees quoted for dental procedures.  I only ever went as far as the North, for a crown.  It was ten years ago or so and the crown falls out regularly since then.  Fortunately I've been relatively lucky and - apart from the long running crown saga - have only otherwise needed routine dental visits.  
With treatment costing so much money, it is understandable clients seeking dental work will look for the best deal.  While in the car for a few minutes this evening, I heard someone who I think was from the Irish Dental Assoc warn of the dangers in going abroad for dental work.  He seemed to single out Budapest.  It was on Q102, a station I rarely hear so didn't hear very much of the interview. The guy was warning against the pitfalls of going abroad, including having so much treatment in a short space of time or not fully researching the actual dentist who performs the work.  He also warned of the potential for things to go wrong and the difficulty of follow-up treatment from the original dentist in such cases.  
It's a tricky one.  I dont know what I would do if I needed a lot of expensive work done?


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## markowitzman (21 Nov 2006)

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> the crown falls out regularly since then.


 crowns if done correctly should not fall out on a regular basis.
The point re expensive work is that it takes time to get the bite right. A full mouth reconstruction is where virtually all teeth are crowned and frequently involves implants. The point person from IDA was making I feel was that this work if done correctly would take up to a few years to do and not a few weeks. This is because the new bite has to be trialled on temporary restorations for an extended period of time. Failure to do so is very much a shot in the dark. The lack of a follow up to keep an eye on the bite is an important factor also. For the expensive crown bridge and implant stuff a prosthodontist is needed. Some of these foreign clinics do have prosthodontists but it is difficult to explain how they could get "results" in such a short treatment time.


> With treatment costing so much money, it is understandable clients seeking dental work will look for the best deal.


Absolutely. The worry I would have is that the foreign clinics do not phase treat the cases due to time constraints. They are probably under time pressures from clients and clinic managers to push through cases. Complex multiple crown and bridge/implant cases need phased patient treatment approaches which frequently can take years rather than days or weeks.
If I was a patient I would see how my dentist performed the routine stuff before putting my faith in them for complex stuff.


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## rabbit (21 Nov 2006)

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markowitzman said:


> . For what it is worth I would go to the specialist with the large property portfolio etc as he must be successful and he must be good!


 
Success at making money in a cartel is not the same thing as being a good dentist.    Some dentists I know are clearly more interested in making as much money as possible, in "Rip off Republic" as Eddie Hobbs rightly often calls it.


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## markowitzman (22 Nov 2006)

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> Success at making money in a cartel


There are no restrictions in this country for any eu dentist to set up practice beside me or any other dentist in this state. There  are no restrictions as to what he or she charges. There are no restrictions to obtaining a gms or dsfca contract from the state. Rabbit if you have evidence of a cartel I would counsel you as a matter of grave urgency to report this as it is wholly illegal. This is a very serious accusation. You appear to have evidence in this regard. For the good of the public at large I urge you to act.


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## liteweight (22 Nov 2006)

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It doesn't have to be a cartel. Dentists, like doctors always charge what the guy down the road is charging. Some charge more and some charge less, but the average is always expensive.


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## mobileme (22 Nov 2006)

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Any personal recommendations for dentisits in NI to get two crowns done? PM me with details if you prefer. Thanks


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## Happy_Harry (30 Nov 2006)

You don't have to go as far as Budapest to get some work done. After having some problems with some of my teeth and being quoted 750 Euro /tooth for a root canal treatment by a "specialist" because my dentist decided during my second visit that he wasn't able to continue, as it was a "special" kind of root - after having charged me 150 euros at the first visit- I decided to look for a dentist elsewhere, as in total my dentist said I needed at least 4 more root canals done and then 4 crowns on them , which I wouldn't be able to afford , unless I'd take out another mortgage.
I went to Holland, where I found a dentist that not only didn't need a "specialist" and only charged roughly 100 euros a root canal treatment , did not agree I needed the crowns @450 euro, but a filling for 38 euro, and best of all for 200 Euro they knock you out completely, so they can do a lot more in a lot less time, had 3 root canals done in one pop.All in all it was fixed for less than 2 grand, including 2 tickets to Holland for 2 (made 2 weekends out of it) Hotel accommodation and a hire car. 
Of course the best thing is you go to sleep and you wake up and all is done. 

That was three years ago, had no problems apart from the odd filling falling out (which I knew would happen from the start), and every 6 months I go to Holland now and fix these small things.

Why is it so much cheaper in Holland ? Because it is regulated... There is a maximum price for every normal treatment procedure. Why does the Irish government not try and regulate the price of dentists, doctors and other medical practitioners. I am sure there are a lot of people not going to a doctor or dentist because of the prices here.


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## CCOVICH (1 Dec 2006)

To keep this thread on topic, i.e. dental fees, I've split wider discussion on professional fees in general/cartels/rip offs/investment properties into this thread.


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## olddog (1 Dec 2006)

JackTheKnife said:


> After twenty years of putting it off I finally decided to go ahead and have one of my top two teeth crowned.
> 
> Firstly I needed to get root canal done (One root only I may add). This happened this morning. I was recommended by my dentist to attend an orthidentist who specialises in this field.
> 
> ...



Much the same as

[broken link removed]

"The going rate"

( Dentists rate & your going )


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## markowitzman (1 Dec 2006)

The fillings related to in the fool.co.uk could well be porcelain inlays or onlays which are laboratory constructed. As a rip off Irish dentist I would need to be on the magic mushrooms to ask that for a filling!


> I went to Holland, where I found a dentist that not only didn't need a "specialist" and only charged roughly 100 euros a root canal treatment ,


 100 euro would not cover the latest root canal materials for one case! [broken link removed]
For a standard case we would use a .04 and .06 taper set of profiles which are single use. Profiles are the same price all over the world. Very suspicious! I would love to see the xrays of these "special" root canals!! It would appear at this price the latest and accepted techniques are not being used?


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## rabbit (1 Dec 2006)

markowitzman said:


> It would appear at this price the latest and accepted techniques are not being used?


 
lol....the latest and accepted techniques of what ?  Taking money out of peoples pockets for the least amount of work ?     I know a few dentists from outside the Republic who express amazement at what dentists charge here.


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## markowitzman (2 Dec 2006)

> lol....the latest and accepted techniques of what ?


Endodontics, sorry rabbit thought you might have twigged that after 31 posts on this thread!.......lol!


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## rabbit (2 Dec 2006)

markowitzman said:


> Endodontics, sorry rabbit thought you might have twigged that after 31 posts on this thread!.......lol!


 
After an equal amount of posts you might have twigged that some of those engaged in "tooth work" are also experts in taking money out of peoples pockets for the least amount of work.   Still, I suppose dentists have a not very nice job to do, and they do have a high suicide rate.   As Eddie Hobbs might say, "shure they might as well  ( charge top dollar ) , seeing as so many other people are at it , like."


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## markowitzman (2 Dec 2006)

> After an equal amount of posts you might have twigged that some of those engaged in "tooth work" are also experts in taking money out of peoples pockets for the least amount of work.


 Ah shucks! Thanks rabbit! I knew we would end up friends.


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## Olka (1 Feb 2007)

I have to admit I have a very bad opinion about Irish dentist and I don't think I will ever visit one again. Some 5 or 6 years ago I went to one, very busy one - got to wait 2 months for a visit - so I thought must be good if has so many patients. Anyway I got my tooth filled. The same evening I got horrible pain as if someone was putting a needle in a nerve. Well it went away soon enough. Then I started getting pain when biting. Went back to him, he polished the filling to prevent my teeth touch each other. After that I got a swelling on my gum and when pressed there was a discharge. That time I was pregnant. And again I went to my dentist. When I told him I was pregnant he said he cannot do anything for me, because he cannot take an x-ray. I asked him whether he can't open it and put some medicine to heal it. He said no and sent me home with the infected tooth. Few months later I went home to Poland for summer holidays and went to visit a dentist. She didn't take an x-ray either, but she opened the tooth, cleaned it, filled with medicine. I visited her twice after that, once to get the medicine changed and finally to get the root canal done. She mentioned that the filling might be temporal as she did not X-rayed me and asked me to come back after the birth of my baby for a check-up. I did - the tooth was ok, no infection was so ever. In fact that "temporal" filling is in place till today, 4.5 years later. So you can see there are thing that Irish dentist find impossible, while dentists elsewhere will fix without much of a problem. I don't know what would have happened if I was relying on the Irish dentist and waited another 5 months to get the tooth repaired. I know for sure that it wouldn't have been good neither for me nor for my baby. And in terms of price for the whole thing (including filling of some other teeth) I paid the same amount of money as for that one feral filling done in Dublin. And it was a very expensive dentist!
 Now I need to visit a dentist again and I will try the new polish medical center Medicus open on Prussia Street. They charge €70 – 120 for a filling. Hopefully they are good as well as when it comes to health it’s not the price that is the most important but the quality of service.


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## ClubMan (1 Feb 2007)

It's probably been mentioned before here but if you qualify for PRSI linked Treatment Benefit then you should be able to get a reduction on certain procedures.


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## joanmul (1 Feb 2007)

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markowitzman said:


> To be honest I am so busy I wish some would! From this thread I really should raise my fees to make life a bit easier for myself as I think I am too cheap!!


 

Don't you take holidays?   I went to Cracow for a week last May and got 2 crowns; 2 specialist fillings ( they were pre-moulded and inserted) and 1 filling and that cost me €900. And the equipment was state of the art.


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## KalEl (1 Feb 2007)

I'm all for looking for value for money but would stop short of travelling to Krakow, South Africa, Norn Iron or wherever for any form of medical treatment. I've had a root canal done...it's not as straightforward as some people are making out. Dentists are highly trained individuals, they have to pay staff and I've no doubt the capital expenditure on equipment is high.

I have a slightly tooth which isn't really visible. When I mentioned it to my original dentist he said it should be shaved down and crowned at huge expense.
When I asked my present guy he said that the chances of success did not justify the outlay for me and advised me not to be so vain. he still charges a lot (the going rate) but this is what I want in any medical practitioner.
Honesty, integrity and good work...when it comes to your health the cost is not relevant.


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## pjq (1 Feb 2007)

KalEl


> I'm all for looking for value for money but would stop short of travelling to Krakow, South Africa, Norn Iron or wherever for any form of medical treatment. I've had a root canal done...it's not as straightforward as some people are making out. Dentists are highly trained individuals, they have to pay staff and I've no doubt the capital expenditure on equipment is high.


Whats the point here ? Is it the poor training or lack of investment by the foreigners that prevents you looking for value for money abroad ?


> he still charges a lot (the going rate) but this is what I want in any medical practitioner.
> Honesty, integrity and good work...when it comes to your health the cost is not relevant.


Have to agree with you here , when it comes to "honesty, integrity and good work" cost is not relevant . But as you well know , cost is not an indication of quality either ( but cost does give a good indication of PROFITS!!) . Ireland definitely has 1st world prices but the service experience is sometimes far from the European norm.
IMO when you visit your local doctor or dentist in Belgium or Germany , it's a 1st world experience ...... we are definitely not there yet , many still have very clapped out equipment, waiting rooms and toilets . 
pjq


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## KathScan (2 Feb 2007)

Got root treatment, metal post fitted and a crown about 6 months ago for €1,100. Took four visits.


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## ubiquitous (2 Feb 2007)

pjq said:


> But as you well know , cost is not an indication of quality either ( but cost does give a good indication of PROFITS!!) .



Always watch out wherever the notion of profits is treated with disdain, as above. In the long run, quality will not exist without profits. Equally, profits will not exist without quality. 

Don't cod yourself that the dentists charging paddy prices in Krakow, South Africa etc are not making handsome profits relative to their cost base.


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## breener (2 Feb 2007)

Got Root Canal (3 Roots) done yesterday.   Originally for 3 its meant to be E850 but because i payed in full there&then got charged E750.  I wanted to start bartering then ;-)    It is shockin though but its the price of not looking after 1's teeth :-(


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## pnelnik (3 Nov 2008)

Dentists do seem to charge quite a bit. One interesting site for comparing dentist fees is GingerWiki.com, ( [broken link removed] ) Though because it is a wiki, it is probably only as reliable as wikipedia.


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## Petal (4 Nov 2008)

ok, since all the people here seem to be experts and well tested visitors of dentists... I'm looking for a recommendation for a good endothontist. I went to a dentist half a year ago, got a root canal and some work done and he told me that one of my old root canals needed to be redone as the root wasn't properly filled (he showed me the x-rays and I could actually see what he meant). So now, low and behold, the tooth is starting to act up and I need to go and see a specialist. He told me the tooth had to be re-rooted (if that term exists). I am wondering, do I need a referal, or can I just go to a specialist - I don't want to pay 50 Euro just for a letter saying i need to go an see one.... And coming to the point - does anyone have recommendations on one - in Dublin that is.


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## mhermannsen (20 Nov 2008)

My first (and last) experience with Irish dentists started September 2006 when I developed an abcess on a molar. The pain was excruciating and I called every dentist in North Kerry, only to be given waiting times of 2 weeks and more. I finally, in desperation, did a sit-in at one dentist's office and refused to leave until I was seen. The abcess was diagnosed and I called a specialist in Cork to do the root canal. I was luckily seen within 2 days due to a cancellation, otherwise I would have waited 2 months. The treatment was first class BUT it took me over a year to have ONE tooth done, from root canal to crown. I travelled 2 x to Cork and 3 x to Limerick (4 hours and 3 hours round-trips respectively) and I paid EUR 2300 for one tooth.

I have since found out that treatment in London is 30% cheaper, in Germany 50% and heaven knows how much cheaper in Hungary. Another tooth is starting to twinge and I'm now looking for a dentist abroad.


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## aircobra19 (20 Nov 2008)

Is there a shortage of dentists in Kerry or something?


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## ubiquitous (20 Nov 2008)

mhermannsen said:


> I have since found out that treatment in London is 30% cheaper, in Germany 50% and heaven knows how much cheaper in Hungary. Another tooth is starting to twinge and I'm now looking for a dentist abroad.



Kerry to London, Hungary or Germany with a molar abcess would be a rather unpleasant flight, to say the least. Also an expensive one, unless you're happy to book weeks in advance before your appointment date (not likely).


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## mhermannsen (20 Nov 2008)

There are a few dentists in Listowel and they seem to be pretty booked up. Same with GPs by the way - although I live in Listowel, I registered with a doctor in Athea which is a good 20min away. Simply because I couldn't get registered in Listowel... Talking about shortage of services - I heard recently that for a mammogramm to be done, I'll have to travel to Cork. I'll have a few years until then, but still - 4 hours roundtrip for a 15min procedure? 

Re flying abroad with a sore tooth: I was so high on strong painkillers, I was flying anyway  No difference there lol


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## Smashbox (20 Nov 2008)

Today I paid €145 for an x-ray and clean.

Finally got the courage to go to a dentists!


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## mhermannsen (20 Nov 2008)

Wow, sounds like it pays to shop around within Ireland as well. I paid EUR 90 for an x-ray and clean last week.


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## sparkeee (20 Nov 2008)

got a crown two years ago for 150 euro well pleased never had a moments problem with it and people cannot tell the real from the fake,shop around.


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## Askar (21 Nov 2008)

sparkeee said:


> got a crown two years ago for 150 euro well pleased never had a moments problem with it and people cannot tell the real from the fake,shop around.


 
Can you give the dentists name or pm me if you prefer?


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## Smashbox (22 Nov 2008)

mhermannsen said:


> Wow, sounds like it pays to shop around within Ireland as well. I paid EUR 90 for an x-ray and clean last week.


 
Ah rage! My visit was in Ballinasloe. Had to be done!


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## davidoco (25 Mar 2009)

currently in dublin city centre until weekend. No way i can get to my dentist down the country before weekend as on training course which I just cannot leave. Have slight/suspect it will get worse as day goes on abcess on my gum. 
Can someone recommend a dentist or clinic in city centre that would see me quickly and also an idea of cost.


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