# Medical Inflation: Private Obs +40% in 3 years. Any examples of medical deflation?



## tosh100 (29 Oct 2009)

My wife is expecting and we are going private with the same hospital and consultant as 3 years ago. 

The only difference being that the consultants fee has risen by €700, a 40% increase in 3 years and must be paid in full on the first visit! 

While he is a great doc and we are very happy with his care and attention etc this seems a ridiculous rate of increase. Anyone any examples of medical cost deflation?


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## Chris (29 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*

Ask yourself this question: is there any area of the economy, directly influenced or controlled by the state, where you have seen prices go down?

Contrast this to the ever reducing prices for TVs, computers, furniture, etc. (even during the boom years)

The only areas of the medical and health service where I can think of prices having gone down are in elective cosmetic surgery and laser eye treatment. Guess what, neither of these are controlled or offered by the HSE.


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## Complainer (29 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Chris said:


> Guess what, neither of these are controlled or offered by the HSE.


Neither is access to private consultants - the HSE has no role in these private services.


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## Chris (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Complainer said:


> Neither is access to private consultants - the HSE has no role in these private services.



I think there are very few consultants that purely operate in private service. They all have public and private patients, which does mean that their rates are influenced directly by the HSE.


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## csirl (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*

A relative of mine hired a fully private consultant recently. Rates were 10% higher than two years ago.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



tosh100 said:


> My wife is expecting and we are going private with the same hospital and consultant as 3 years ago. The only difference being that the consultants fee has risen by €700, a 40% increase in 3 years and must be paid in full on the first visit!!!! While he is a great doc and we are very happy with his care and attention etc this seems a ridiculous rate of increase. Anyone any examples of medical cost deflation??????



Well, he has three years' more experience now. 

I imagine that his Professional Indemnity insurance has risen considerably over three years. 

And maybe he was cheap back then and is now charging market prices.

So shop around. If he is too expensive, then go to a different hospital or different doctor.

Brendan


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## Purple (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Brendan said:


> Well, he has three years' more experience now.
> 
> I imagine that his Professional Indemnity insurance has risen considerably over three years.
> 
> ...




Many doctors, both GP's and consultants, have clinical meetings to discuss trends, scientific developments etc. By pure coincidence GP's in particular areas often raise their prices from the same amount to the same amount very shortly after these meetings.
It is also remarkably coincidental that consultants in particular specialties all seem to have the exact same overheads and so charge the same sort of prices. 
I'm not saying they operate cartels; only car dealers and other plebs do such things. Professionals such as doctors are far too high-minded to concern themselves with money.

Or maybe doctors are just as susceptible to greed as anyone else and they have been increasing their fees massively over the last few years because they have found that the market will stand the increases?


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## z104 (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Brendan said:


> Well, he has three years' more experience now.
> 
> I imagine that his Professional Indemnity insurance has risen considerably over three years.
> 
> ...


 

I don't agree that it warrants a 40% increase per patient,Multiply this over the number of patients and it is massive. Doctors typically see people who are in a vulnerable position and profit greatly from it. I personally think it's wrong that they charge sick people or people in need of medical assitance so much. Doctors/Consultant charges need to be regulated. It's not good enough that they charge such high fees.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



> I don't agree that it warrants a 40% increase per patient,Multiply this over the number of patients and it is massive.


No. 40% per patient is still 40% overall,irrespective of the number of patients. 

On its own, it's not very meaningful. The only issue is how does this compare with what other consultants of similar skills and experience are charging today.

The OP is being charged €2,450 this time. Is that the market rate for a birth?


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## Complainer (31 Oct 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Chris said:


> I think there are very few consultants that purely operate in private service. They all have public and private patients, which does mean that their rates are influenced directly by the HSE.


No, the rates for his public patients is 'zero'. The HSE has no influence on his private rates. You'll need to direct your ire elsewhere.

Seems strange that you would be so enthusiastic to blame the HSE for something that is nothing to do with them - is this a bandwagon?


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## Chris (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Niallers said:


> I don't agree that it warrants a 40% increase per patient,Multiply this over the number of patients and it is massive. Doctors typically see people who are in a vulnerable position and profit greatly from it. I personally think it's wrong that they charge sick people or people in need of medical assitance so much. Doctors/Consultant charges need to be regulated. It's not good enough that they charge such high fees.



Going to a private consultant is a choice, there is always the option of going public. If you wanted to really reduce the prices they charge privately, the number of consultants, GPs and doctors in general would not be kept so low by government regulation. The high rates paid indicates a large enough demand for a very limited supply of the service.
If there was more competition there would be lower prices.



Complainer said:


> No, the rates for his public patients is 'zero'. The HSE has no influence on his private rates. You'll need to direct your ire elsewhere.
> Seems strange that you would be so enthusiastic to blame the HSE for something that is nothing to do with them - is this a bandwagon?



So they don't get paid for seeing public patients?!?! The HSE deal with consultants was and is rediculous. Consultants get much too high wages for seeing public patients. This results in them charging private rates that are, at the very least, the same amount as what they earn per public patient. The HSE directly impacts the rates charged by its consultants by paying them very high wages and keeping the number of consultants artificailly low.
There is no ire in my posts, all I'm doing is pointing out the most basic laws of economics, that apply to every part of the economy, even the health service.


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## Complainer (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Chris said:


> So they don't get paid for seeing public patients?!?! The HSE deal with consultants was and is rediculous. Consultants get much too high wages for seeing public patients. This results in them charging private rates that are, at the very least, the same amount as what they earn per public patient. The HSE directly impacts the rates charged by its consultants by paying them very high wages and keeping the number of consultants artificailly low.
> There is no ire in my posts, all I'm doing is pointing out the most basic laws of economics, that apply to every part of the economy, even the health service.


Ok, I see what you're getting at, and I share your concerns about the new consultants contract. 

My point was that the consultant does not get paid 'per patient' for his public patients. He is paid the same, regardless of the number of patients.

I don't think the HSE is responsible for controlling the number of consultant posts afaik?


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## Chris (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation*



Complainer said:


> I don't think the HSE is responsible for controlling the number of consultant posts afaik?



Maybe not for a hospital/surgery operating purely privately; I guess they could employ only consultants if they wanted. 
But in the public sector the HSE has complete control over how many doctors and consultants it employs. The HSE sets an annual budget for consultants and also fixes the wages, thereby fixing the amount of consultants. Add to that the fact that public consultants can also accept private patients while using public facilities and staff, and you have a situation where private rates are directly influenced by government regulations.
It would make much more sense to fix the budget for consultants and have doctors compete for the posts by allowing all doctors with certain qualifications and experience, to offer their services at whatever wage they are happy with. I'm sure you'd find plenty of consultants working for the NHS (and other countries), that are more than qualified, who would happily come here to work for wages that are much higher than their current wages, while at the same time much lower than regulated wages of the HSE.
It's very much the same with GPs. If the hurdles and costs involved in getting a GP practice licence and then setting up a GP practice were not so rediculously regulated you would have a lot more doctors choosing to open their own practice, thereby increasing the supply of the service resulting in lower costs.


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## kee31 (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation: Private Obs +40% in 3 years. Any examples of medical deflation*

Where does the OP state that he is being charged €2,450 this time. that is cheap by Dublin  standards.  Most Obs in Dublin Hospitals are charging €4000/€4500 for private care.  Semi private is considerable cheaper, many of the popular Obs also operate the SP clinics.  Main difference is they won't attend the birth


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Medical Inflation: Private Obs +40% in 3 years. Any examples of medical deflation*

Here: 



> the consultants fee has risen by €700, a 40% increase in 3 years and must be paid in full on the first visit!



€2450 seems cheap, so he must have been really cheap 3 years ago. 

Brendan


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