# Deposit re invested without my approval.



## Treefrog2108 (6 Sep 2012)

hi.

I had a sum of money in an Interest first fixed account with a particular bank. Its maturity date was up last week and the bank opened another year long fixed term deposit and locked away my money, without my approval or signature.

I did recieve a letter last week stating that the maturity date was up , and reading it back now, it does say that If I do not get in contact with them (which I didnt) they will re invest it.

So I recieved the letter today with my new account details, although I had no intentention of re investing for another year,I believe I can get a better interest rate.

So basicly, what I am asking is was this legal? Would they not need my approval and signature to reinvest my hard earned cash? 
Does the letters statement about "if I do not get in contact they will lock it away for another year" hold water?

 I have not spoken to the bank yet, I just got the letter, but I wish to take the money out and invest it elsewhere. without penalties.

I appreciate any advice before I ring the bank.


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## dereko1969 (6 Sep 2012)

Have you read the terms and conditions of your original deposit account? I'd be fairly sure the Bank are operating within the terms of this. They also gave you prior notice of their intention which you chose to ignore. 

However, I would presume any interest penalty would only be on interest earned since the transfer of the money plus perhaps an administration charge.


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## STEINER (6 Sep 2012)

The bank informed you by letter of the maturity of the account.  You had options that you didn't choose so under the terms and conditions the bank acted correctly.  We have similar accounts with PTSB.  You can of course ring the bank and say that you want to withdraw the money and just forgot at the time, but given that you want to withdraw the money, I'd say your chances are zero.


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## bugler (6 Sep 2012)

Are we talking about an EBS Family Saver account by any chance?

I believe what you would have signed last year would have spelled out what would happen on maturity should you not direct them otherwise. Try to dig out your documents from last year to confirm.


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## monagt (6 Sep 2012)

> Have you read the terms and conditions of your original deposit account? I'd be fairly sure the Bank are operating within the terms of this. They also gave you prior notice of their intention which you chose to ignore.



Why don't ppl read T&Cs? The americans do?

Exactly what happens at maturity is always set out and part of the T&Cs an person signs when they agree to the transaction.

(same happens with Ryanair and then the same pppl who voted with their feet to fly Budget complain loudly. O'Leary is absolutely right. I prefer to fly non Ryanair if possible but depends on cash difference )


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## Treefrog2108 (6 Sep 2012)

ok. Thanks for all the information everyone. 

 I guess its my own fault for not contacting them as soon as they informed me the initial term was coming to an end. Lesson learned.

I really need to stay on top of these things, but usually put them off, untill like now its too late.

Anyways thanks again.

treefrog2108

I


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## Treefrog2108 (6 Sep 2012)

nah, its not EBS. The last letter did say that the money would be re invested should I not get in contact. I just left it too long and it slipped my mind totally


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## DrMoriarty (6 Sep 2012)

monagt said:


> Why don't ppl read T&Cs? The americans do?


Have you ever watched American television?


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## Lightning (6 Sep 2012)

It is completely outrageous that a bank (PTSB in this case) can have T&C's that lock you into a new 1 year term deposit without your prior consent. 

Treefrog2108 - Ask PTSB if you are inside their cooling off period? They might allow you exit if you are. If not, ask PTSB if they will allow an early exit, they sometimes do.


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## Treefrog2108 (6 Sep 2012)

It is completely outrageous that a bank (PTSB in this case) can have T&C's that lock you into a new 1 year term deposit without your prior consent. 

Treefrog2108 - Ask PTSB if you are inside their cooling off period? They might allow you exit if you are. If not, ask PTSB if they will allow an early exit, they sometimes do....



Ok, thanks Ciaran. The cooling period is a good idea. I will speak to them tomorrow and see what they say,


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## jpd (7 Sep 2012)

Treefrog2108 said:


> It is completely outrageous that a bank (PTSB in this case) can have T&C's that lock you into a new 1 year term deposit without your prior consent.



Excuse me - when the account was opened, you have to sign a piece of paper agreeing to the t&c in which it explicitly states what will happen when the a/c matures so it is not done without your prior consent.


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## Bobby1 (7 Sep 2012)

jpd said:


> Excuse me - when the account was opened, you have to sign a piece of paper agreeing to the t&c in which it explicitly states what will happen when the a/c matures so it is not done without your prior consent.


 
Agree...several insitutions do this, and in fairness its usually plastered on the Terms and Conditions, Account Confirmation Letter, and pre-maturity notification letter, plus there is the cooling off period afterwards, so I dont think its outragous either. What is outragous is people thinking they should always have it their way!


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## bugler (7 Sep 2012)

CiaranT said:


> It is completely outrageous that a bank (PTSB in this case) can have T&C's that lock you into a new 1 year term deposit without your prior consent.



We don't know that this is the case. 

The OP, I suspect, gave his consent when he signed up to the original agreement. If it was anything like the EBS agreement then it wasn't so much small print as an expressly written.

But without seeing the documentation it's not possible to be definitive. If the OP explores a few avenues they may be able to get access to their cash as a goodwill measure.


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## wbbs (7 Sep 2012)

Just to give the other view, many the time I dealt with customers having a fit because their matured term deposit was sitting in an on demand account with low interest for months because they assumed it would re-invest if they didn't say otherwise.   Some do, some don't, it will be in the t&c's and in fairness they did write and tell you as well.


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## evanio (7 Sep 2012)

If the a/c is with PTSB you have a 14 day cooling off period


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## Lightning (7 Sep 2012)

bugler said:


> We don't know that this is the case.
> 
> The OP, I suspect, gave his consent when he signed up to the original agreement. If it was anything like the EBS agreement then it wasn't so much small print as an expressly written.
> 
> But without seeing the documentation it's not possible to be definitive. If the OP explores a few avenues they may be able to get access to their cash as a goodwill measure.



My point is not whether it was in the T&C's or was not in the T&C's. It was in the T&C's. 

My point is that it should never have been in the T&C's in the first place. 

It is sneaky devious behavioral aimed at taking advantage of the financially illiterate. 

A term deposit is for a fixed period of time, once it expires the consumer should have to elect what to do with the deposit. It should not be reinvested and locked at a rate that the consumer has not given their prior consent to. 

There needs to be more consumer protection in this area.


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## Lightning (7 Sep 2012)

evanio said:


> If the a/c is with PTSB you have a 14 day cooling off period



Problem solved for the OP so, if they act fast enough.


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## becky (7 Sep 2012)

I have fixed term deposit with ptsb due in 2 weeks. At the time I read that if I didn't advise them what I wanted to do it would roll over, so I put the date into my phone.

The OP was written to and he has admitted himself that he dropped the ball.  If he has a cooling off period, all the better.

I don't think the bank here is being underhanded here.  How are they to know what you what you want to do with the money unless you tell them.


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## Lightning (9 Sep 2012)

becky said:


> I don't think the bank here is being underhanded here.  How are they to know what you what you want to do with the money unless you tell them.



The default should be an instant access call account if no instruction is given.


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## Black Sheep (9 Sep 2012)

I have an account similar to the OP. Got my letter reminding of the maturity date and if I wished to have it rolled over no further contact was required.  The interest rate was good so I just filed away the letter. Job done!!

Then I get a phone call stating that I needed to make an appointment with the branch manager. They would need to do a financial assessment. I declined the invitation and reminded the lady "silence gives consent" as per their letter. Now we are not talking megabucks, just a bit of rainy day money.

You can't win


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## bugler (10 Sep 2012)

CiaranT said:


> My point is not whether it was in the T&C's or was not in the T&C's. It was in the T&C's.
> 
> My point is that it should never have been in the T&C's in the first place.
> 
> It is sneaky devious behavioral aimed at taking advantage of the financially illiterate.



"financially illiterate" - does that now mean someone who doesn't read repeated plain english instructions as to the nature of the product they are availing of? This was not a complex issue - you are being a touch overdramatic in your language above.

People are adults and should be trusted to decide on what products to choose. Expert advice may be suitable in some cases. However, an adult should be able to look at a fixed term deposit product, understand the nature of its conditions (length of term, withdrawal limits, maturity date, etc) and then make a decision.

I'd also be interested to see if the cooling off period applies to the reinvested amount. This is not a new account. The OP signed up to an agreement over a year ago, not 10 days ago.

The only questions that I see are relevant are:

Was the nature of the product made clear to the OP at the time of opening the account? Was the OP reminded of the nature of the product shortly before maturity date?

The answer appears to be 'yes' to both. I would say enhanced Consumer protection might be better aimed at issues not caused by peoples' reluctance to read what they are signing up to.

None of the above is intended as a slight on the OP, who has been upfront and honest about their role in this coming to pass.


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## Lightning (10 Sep 2012)

A significant number of people don't read and/or don't understand financial T&C's. It is beyond the comprehension of a large portion of the adult population. 

When electing into options, then there is should be a broad range of what is allowable or not, open to the bank and the individual. 

However, when defaults rather than options are used, then there should be consumer protection as the vast majority of people will just go with the default. The default should be the most favorable outcome for the consumer.   

Also, at account option stage, with a term deposit, a list of options should be presented to the depositor, with regard to what happens at account maturity stage. 

The default option utilised here was in the banks best interest and not the consumers best interest. Banks should act in the consumers best interest.


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