# Complaint to Electric Ireland regarding smart meter plan and switching back to old plans.



## Up Rovers (19 Aug 2022)

Hi,

We are out of contract with Electric Ireland and thinking of moving to possibly Bord Gais.  Have had a quick look at rates and would prefer to stay on a 24 hour plan rather than timing things throughout the day.  We feel it is dangerous putting machines on to run at night time when in bed.  Had a machine go on fire once before so am reluctant to go this way.  

When we moved to the smart meter plan we were not forewarned that we would not be able to move back.  They sold the plan to us when we confirmed that we wanted to get away from estimated bills.  This was last year when not many people knew about the higher rates on smart plans and the fact that we could not move back.

Spoke to Bord Gais recently who confirmed that El Irl can listen back on calls to check the conversation but just wondering how realistic this is if we do not have a note of the date that we moved over.  Has anyone gone through the complaints procedure about this?

Have spoken to the Regulator and they confirmed that they will only check it out after Electric Ireland do their investigation.


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## ryaner (20 Aug 2022)

The regulator are normally pretty good however given that all the smartmeter forms and documents all warn about not being able to switch back, possibly even something on the meter itself rather than from the providers. The regulator may not be able to assist in that case and it does seem that providers have stopped giving the same 24 hour plans when you have the smartmeter enabled.

It also says a lot that enough people are trying to switch away from these "cheaper" smart plan from that it requires all these notices about switching.


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## jpd (20 Aug 2022)

How could it possibly be "something on the meter itself"?

This is just a case of suppliers using their muscle to increase prices and profits - along the same lines as increasing standing charges by the same amount as the energy supply prices


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## ryaner (20 Aug 2022)

If it was the supplier doing it, there would very likely be one supplier allowing the switch back. When I looked last month, no supplier was doing it, and when I had a complaint about my meter with EI they made sure to mention switching back wasn't possible if the features got enabled more than once during the call, each time asking if I understood that before asking if I wanted to progress.


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## FANTANA (21 Aug 2022)

You can switch to a day night meter even if you have a smart meter. As the day night meter can’t be smart currently they can’t refuse you.


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## E30chick (23 Aug 2022)

So if you have a smart meter, and you are on a smart plan that has a flat rate unit fee for gas and leccy - if you move onto a smartER plan with peak and off peak times you can't move back onto the smart meter flat rate fee plan?


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## User1970 (23 Aug 2022)

thats correct


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## E30chick (23 Aug 2022)

User1970 said:


> thats correct


Oh wow that's good to know. I was on the flat rate smart meter plan and I am coming off it next month onto their Value reward plan but I can't find the info about it on their website anywhere so I have put in a request to them for info.

I am happy to have the smart meter but no desire to on the smart plan. 

I just want the flat rate fee works best for me, not safe to run appliances at night and no electric car or storage heaters, no kids, shift worker and WFH so peak times are lunch time, I don't want to pay the most then thanks very much!

Free lecy at the weekend.......??? there is no such thing as a free lunch ha! 
And who wants to spend all weekend doing laundry good luck that gets done first thing in the morning midweek.


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## Up Rovers (23 Aug 2022)

E30chick said:


> So if you have a smart meter, and you are on a smart plan that has a flat rate unit fee for gas and leccy - if you move onto a smartER plan with peak and off peak times you can't move back onto the smart meter flat rate fee plan?



@User1970  and @E30chick

From my understanding having spoken with El Irl and Bord Gais what you are saying above is *incorrect.  *

If you are on a smart meter plan i.e. you have moved from their ordinary meter plans the bottom line is that you cannot move back.  They say that the thinking behind this is that you will avail of their timed usage throughout the day and therefore save electricity by watching your usage.  El Irl only do have a 24 hour smart plan therefore no different timed usage.  Their smart meter plans appear to be called Home Electric but not sure what Bord Gais call theirs.



E30chick said:


> I was on the flat rate smart meter plan and I am coming off it next month onto their Value reward plan



The Value reward plan is one of their ordinary meter plans so you cannot move back from a smart meter plan to it.


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## E30chick (23 Aug 2022)

Up Rovers said:


> The Value reward plan is one of their ordinary meter plans so you cannot move back from a smart meter plan to it.


Humm I have no idea that was the plan mentioned on their email.
'Thank you for being a customer of Electric Ireland.
We are writing to inform you that your current Electricity fixed term contract will expire on 07/09/2022. Now and in the future we're here for you.
How your bill is calculated:
Below is a quick rundown of the charges you are currently paying (excl. VAT @13.5%):
Energy Unit Rate: 19.09 c/kWh
Annual Standing Charge: 249.59 €/annum
On average consumers use 4200 kWh per year. If you use this average amount we estimate that the annual bill cost for your current price plan would be €1251.96 inclusive of all charges. However, your actual annual bill cost is unlikely to be the same as the average and will depend on how much energy you actually use.
For further information regarding your estimated annual bill visit: www.electricireland.ie/EAB
What happens next?
At the end of your current fixed term contract, you will move to our ValueReward price plan, with ongoing savings for direct debit and online billing and no contract. You will continue to enjoy the savings this year, next year and every year. For an average customer, we estimate that the annual cost for your new price plan would be €1504.09 inclusive of all charges'


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## Up Rovers (23 Aug 2022)

Hi,

So I think that you are actually not on a smart meter plan or else they would not be offering you a move to the Value Reward one.  From speaking to them yesterday they appear to move people to a 5.5% discount which is quite low and this is when you are out of contract.

As you do not appear to want to have restricted time usage it is very important that you stick with a non-smart plan and you need to emphasise this to them if they try to get you to move.  You will also be tied into estimated bills.

The best thing to do is to find out your annual usage or how much you have paid over the last year from your bills or register online with them and you should be able to find it that way.  Then look at www.bonkers.ie and see which provider gives you the best deal.  Bord Gais would appear to have a good 39% discount for non-smart plans at moment but it may be finishing shortly.  Make sure not to move until after 7/9/'22 or El Irl will probably apply the €50 fine for moving while still in contract.


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## elcato (23 Aug 2022)

Up Rovers said:


> Bord Gais would appear to have a good 39% discount for non-smart plans at moment


BG and EI both charge €370 annual standing charge currently which is over €80 more than the others. This may change but something to be aware of in your calculations.


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## Up Rovers (24 Aug 2022)

@elcato 



elcato said:


> BG and EI both charge €370 annual standing charge currently which is over €80 more than the others. This may change but something to be aware of in your calculations.



Very hard to tie them down on these charges because they quote so many different rates and plans but when I spoke to El Irl yesterday they quoted €302 annual charge and Bord Gais quoted €281.12 inclusive of VAT.


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## mathepac (24 Aug 2022)

My current standing charge from EI for electricity (NOT on any smart-meter plan) is €0.6838 daily plus VAT.  

€0.6838 x 365 = €249.59
plus VAT @ 9.0% = €272.05 <----- their current standing charge +/- 1 day.

or plus VAT @ 13.50% = €283.29 after next October when (if) the VAT rate changes back.

The rate is from my last (since 1st May increases) bill.  If you are getting different answers from people in EI I'm not surprised as most of the customer-facing staff know very little factual information and based on recent interactions, don't seem very well trained.

Excerpt from an email I received from EI supervisor about previous interactions with customer contact staff, verbatim apart from redacted info.

_*"Hi mathepac,

Thanks for your email. Your tracking number is {IrecNo:[redacted]}.

As per our phone conversation Today, the [date redacted], I got time to conduct the call traces for you.

I have listened to your call that took place with [name redacted] the supervisor on the [date redacted]. [name redacted] gave you E40.00. [name redacted] advised that E20.08 was for the .5% loss for the last two years and the other E19.92 was an good will gesture given by [name redacted].

I have also listened to your call that took place with [name B redacted] Today [date redacted]. You were telling [name B redacted] what [name redacted] had told you on your previous conversation with Electric Ireland when [name B redacted] advised you that you were aggressive and accusing you of calling him an liar.

Listening to this call, you were very calm and only looked for clarification on what was the correct information given to you. I do apologise for [name B redacted]'s approach on this situation.
*_
*For this call, I will apply E40.00 towards your account and I will also follow up internally with this agent."*


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## elcato (24 Aug 2022)

Actually you are both right. I have a nightsaver so my rates are different than the 24 hour rate but regardless they charge €70/80 as although EI is €302 and BG are €280. SSE are €222 for 24 hour rates.


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## AJ1 (13 Oct 2022)

Hi all,

I am on a smart meter plan with electric Ireland called home saver plus. I didn't realise I was on a smart meter plan and never knew I couldn't switch from a smart meter plan when I signed up. Is there anything I can do?


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## Sue Ellen (13 Oct 2022)

AJ1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am on a smart meter plan with electric Ireland called home saver plus. I didn't realise I was on a smart meter plan and never knew I couldn't switch from a smart meter plan when I signed up. Is there anything I can do?



As the OP mentions in their first post you would need to prove that you were not informed about the rule of not moving back.  That would be done by getting your provider to listen back on the call when you made the move if it was done by telephone.  You could also get advice about that from the Regulator www.cru.ie


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## AJ1 (13 Oct 2022)

E30chick said:


> Humm I have no idea that was the plan mentioned on their email.
> 'Thank you for being a customer of Electric Ireland.
> We are writing to inform you that your current Electricity fixed term contract will expire on 07/09/2022. Now and in the future we're here for you.
> How your bill is calculated:
> ...


Did you get moved to the valuereward price plan and is this a smartmeter plan? I got the same email!


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## Sue Ellen (14 Oct 2022)

AJ1 said:


> Did you get moved to the valuereward price plan and is this a smartmeter plan?



I used to be on the Value Reward plan and as far as I can recall it is not a smart meter plan.  The smart meter plans are generally called Home Electric+ - see here.


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## AJ1 (14 Oct 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> I used to be on the Value Reward plan and as far as I can recall it is not a smart meter plan.  The smart meter plans are generally called Home Electric+ - see here.


Thanks, when I phoned he told me the plan I'm on now is their basic smart meter plan but with a 24 hour rates and that I couldn't move to a standard meter plan. I think I will wait until the move me to the new plan and then try to switch


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## Sue Ellen (14 Oct 2022)

AJ1 said:


> I think I will wait until the move me to the new plan and then try to switch



As stated above you cannot revert back to an ordinary plan once you have moved to a Smart plan.  When you move to a new plan you sign up for a 12 or 24 month contract.   Even moving supplier still restricts you to a Smart plan.


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## AJ1 (14 Oct 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> As stated above you cannot revert back to an ordinary plan once you have moved to a Smart plan.  When you move to a new plan you sign up for a 12 or 24 month contract.   Even moving supplier still restricts you to a Smart plan.


They emailed me to say I would be moving onto the valureward priceplan. I'm not sure if this is a smartmeter plan or not


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## mathepac (14 Oct 2022)

https://www.electricireland.ie/docs/price-plans/residential/2022/0822_pp_vr_elec.pdf


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## AJ1 (14 Oct 2022)

mathepac said:


> https://www.electricireland.ie/docs/price-plans/residential/2022/0822_pp_vr_elec.pdf


Thanks, I still can't decipher if it's a smart meter plan or not?


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## Sue Ellen (14 Oct 2022)

AJ1 said:


> *I am on a smart meter plan with electric Ireland called* *home saver plus*. I didn't realise I was on a smart meter plan and never knew I couldn't switch from a smart meter plan when I signed up. Is there anything I can do?





AJ1 said:


> *They emailed me to say I would be moving onto the valureward priceplan*. I'm not sure if this is a smartmeter plan or not



As you seem to be totally confused as to which plan you are on you should e-mail them and ask them to explain about your ValueReward  plan and if it is a Smart meter plan or not.  You can then refer back to the confirmation in writing from them when necessary.


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## mathepac (14 Oct 2022)

it states "24-Hr Price per unit (kWh)" therefore it is not a smart plan. Smart plans can vary in price throughout the day, 24-hr plans don't.


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## mct1 (14 Oct 2022)

We're on that plan a while. Standard residential plan, definitely not smart meter.


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