# We can't make ends meet!



## Mrs Cornflakes

Age:   50
    Husband age:  52
Husband is a Garda Sergeant : €65k this year.  (€50k basic + €15k in overtime and allowances)  (€75k last year) He gets €77.06 weekly 
rent allowance for living away from home, but he lives with me.

Total net pay per month   
Salary   €3,600
unsocial hours allowance: €500 (not taxed) 
4 children x child benefit:  €588 per month (I get nothing for the eldest, and he eats the most) 
*Total net pay: €4,688 per month*  

I don't have any earned income     

*Mortgage:    *       We are paying €1,400 a month - 18 years left 
In 2005 we traded up to a modest 4 bedroomed  semi-d to get an extra bedroom and  to be near better schools.   
*
No other borrowings *    We pay €528 a week into the Credit Union Bill pay scheme which pays all our bills. 

   Savings and investments:      None   

   Do you have a pension scheme?       - Yes Garda pension scheme  

   Do you own any investment or other property?        - No  

   Ages of children:        18, 16,14,12,10  

   Life insurance:       Just mortgage protection   

*Here are my monthly numbers 

*Net Pay: €4,700      

*Expenditure monthly
*Mortgage:  €1,400     
Mortgage protection: 60
House insurance: €30
Phone: €170
Education: €300 ( registration fees, uniforms etc)
Garda health insurance: €300
Pensions avc : €350
Total before food etc: €2,600

Left for food, transport, clothing, footwear( my husband's a garda don't forget) other: €2,100

How can we be expected to survive on that with 5 children? 

*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you? *  

I am scared for our children’s future and ours. There are weeks when I can’t put food on the table . . . To the outsider, we look like we have it all . . . Inside we are having a nightmare.       

Whilst we pay our mortgage every month we have absolutely no extra cash at all after all the bills are paid. We live in constant terror of the dishwasher breaking down or the car

If it wasn’t for my mother bailing us out all the time, we would be right under

We have “cornflakes days”, when we eat nothing else. There is the pain of seeing our eldest child make it to a prestigious third-level course, but unable to register because we can’t assemble the fees: Imagine how upsetting that is?

 The younger children are resigned to the fact that they can’t attend birthday parties because the standard €20 gift is way beyond us. 

Piano or swimming lessons, are unthinkable. We pay the TV licence in dribs and drabs to keep out of the courts.  As I write this, the dishwasher has groudn to a halt. A repair man arrives and gives an estimate of €100 to fix the dishwasher.  Hopefully, my  parents, a couple on “ordinary pensions”, will probably pay for the dishwasher and the college fees.                    


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## serotoninsid

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> Phone: €170


That seems excessive.  I would be surprised if this could not be paired back some?


Mrs Cornflakes said:


> *Mortgage:    *     We are paying €1,400 a month - 18 years left
> In 2005 we traded up to a modest 4 bedroomed  semi-d to get an extra bedroom and  to be near better schools.


Whats the capital amount outstanding on the mortgage and a rough valuation on the property as it stands right now? What deal do you have in place on the mortgage?  i.e. what interest rate applies currently on the interest only arrangement?


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## elcato

> A repair man arrives and gives an estimate of €100 to fix the dishwasher.


Have you shopped around for quotes ? I'd say Jimmy down the road would do it for cash for half that amount.


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## truthseeker

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> As I write this, the dishwasher has groudn to a halt. A repair man arrives and gives an estimate of €100 to fix the dishwasher.



Have you tried fixing it yourself? I recently fixed my own dishwasher after googling the problem and finding a very helpful set of videos explaining the inner workings of dishwashers. I ended up ordering a part online for 5 pound sterling plus 2.99 sterling postage and fixing it myself.


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## burmo

Can you please break down the remaining 2,100 as that is a lot of money.


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## Firefly

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> Pensions avc : €350


 
Given your current predicament of having "Cornflakes Days" I would immediately freeze these AVC contributions, especially considering the guaranteed pension your husband will receive upon retirement. At that stage, your mortgage will probably be paid off and your children should be self-financing.

Also, as your children are all at school, could you work a few mornings a week to bring in more money? 

Finally, any jobs going in the Guards?


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## annfield

Health Insurance could go, €3,600 a year, unless a dependant is getting benefit from it


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## rameire

€528 a week for bills.

what bills cost €528 a week?

or should that be a month?
or is part of that going into a savings pool for future bills?


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## Purple

Get rid of the pension AVC. Then you have €565 a week after mortgage, utilities etc are paid.
If you can’t make ends meet with that it’s your own fault as you’ve a massive disposable income.

Where do you shop? As you are at home you can keep those costs down; you shouldn't be spending anything over €200 a week for 7 people.


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## Purple

rameire said:


> €528 a week for bills.
> 
> what bills cost €528 a week?
> 
> or should that be a month?
> or is part of that going into a savings pool for future bills?



I took that as a typo; there's no way anyone is paying that sort of money per week on bills, not unless they have to keep a small ship at sea or something.


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## cobalt

I see you've already read (posted in) this thread. However, I think it's worth highlighting posts 56 and 57 from it, which contain specific recommendations.

Post 56:


Clamball said:


> I think this Garda's spouse is suffering from an inability to budget.
> 
> It would appear that with the deductions from her husband's salary at  source of €528 she is looking at her budget as being what is left over  plus children's allowance.  "Her" income has been severely cut to  €109.22 plus the children's allowance and she now cannot budget.
> 
> She has rightly gone to MABS but perhaps she has not sat down fully and  looked at every element of her expenditure and looked at the expenditure  for savings.  She just sees that the government has cut "her" portion  of the wages and she is suffering badly.
> 
> I would recommend that she and her husband look at this jointly.
> 
> 1 *Stop the deductions at source so they can feel more in-control of their expenditure.*   Her husband should look at his pay-slip and stop every "optional"  deduction.  Social club, charity, AVC, Gym, etc. if they are there and  stop them straight away.  If the Garda’s wife sees €800 on wages slip  she may feel a lot better.
> 
> 2.  Then *look at net income and decide how to spend it.*   Many of the fixed expenditures are listed above, mortgage, Mortgage,  Food, Transport, Education, Clothing/footwear, Telephone, Television,  Waste, Broadband, Heat, Electricity, Insurance, Car Tax, Household  Charge, Car Insurance, House Insurance, Life Insurance (Mortgage).
> 
> 3.  Each of these *fixed expenditures should be evaluated*  and re-costed and reduced where possible. Mortgage has gone interest  only so they are making a start.  And for each of these they need to be  really realistic, do they need a second car, where is cheaper to shop  for clothes, shoes, household goods, telephone.  Do they need smart  phones, mobiles, etc.  Can the health insurance be reduced to the  minimum; they need to eat healthily to keep healthy.  Eating should take  priority over future potential health issues.
> 
> 4  Now they should *look at discretionary spending* and  determine where it is important for them as a family to spend and where  they can make savings; this is Credit Union, Repairs, Maintenance, and  Other as listed above.  Are these GP visits, medicine, dentists  (orthodontic work) charity contributions, school payments, sport, gifts,  parties?  I think with kids especially as they become teens it is a  constant list of hand-outs, needs, requirements etc.
> 
> 5 From the savings in 3 & 4 above they should *start their rainy day funds*, emergency pot of money, exceptional spends, car replacement, etc.
> 
> 6 Then *the future*, reduction of income plans, more tax  plans, water charge, house tax etc etc.  They now have another adult in  the house and he/she will need to be able to help by either reduction in  expenditure or by earning to add to the available pool of money.
> 
> If this lady considers it her job and responsibility to save money for  her family, make lunches, grow vegetables, walk rather than drive, look  for bargains, barter, etc etc then she will feel more in charge of her  families future and current costs and will know instantly what can be  cut and saved and how to have fun and live a life on less.
> 
> With 18 years+ left on the mortgage and her husband over 50 and perhaps  approaching retirement they both need to start planning for the future  and living for the present.  If they can make savings can they go back  to paying their mortgage and eventually be debt free.  The two negatives  they have at the moment is that they have a large mortgage and large  outputs with the size of their family of 6.  So it is not going to be  easy and it is going to cause them pain as they move from a middle class  status to frugal living but it is possible.
> 
> There is a lot she can do and with her husbands and children’s help she  is in a position to make great savings and still live well and put lots  of healthy nutritious meals on the table and have an enjoyable family  life.   The solution will lie with her not the government.  She needs to  consider it her full time job to manage the money they have and manage  it well.



Post 57:


DerKaiser said:


> Here are my suggestions for the family to cut  out not only the €300pw shortfall to get back in the black, but over  €400pw!:
> 1) Move to a basic health insurance plan and save €35pw
> 2) Cut out the €80pw AVC to save €50pw net of tax
> 3) Get rid of one of the cars, save €60pw
> 4) Everyone makes do with a prepay mobile, save €25pw
> 5) If the kids want to buy expensive clothing/shoe brands let them do it out of a part time job, save €30pw
> 6) Switch to porridge instead of cornflakes, switch to Aldi/Lidl for groceries, save €30pw
> 7) Be ruthless about the €80pw "other" expenditure - save €40pw
> 8) If the credit union payment is savings stop it, if loan repayments it  should be paid off within a couple of years anyway - save €50pw



Also, as others have noted above, and in the other thread, the broad figures given so far don't seem to give the full picture. It would probably help people to provide useful advice if you could provide supplementary details in the areas discussed in that thread and this one.


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## ajapale

*Garda health insurance: €300*

The Garda health insurance from St Pauls appears to be a great scheme. Are you claiming your full "day to day" medical expences from the scheme?

Are you claiming your MED1 expences every year?

Do you or any of your family suffer from any medical conditions or predispositions which would make dropping the medical insurance problematic?


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## Bronte

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> Age: 50
> Husband age: 52
> Husband €65k this year.
> (€50k basic + €15k in overtime and allowances) (€75k last year)
> He gets €77.06 weekly rent allowance
> Total net pay per month
> Salary €3,600
> unsocial hours allowance: €500 (not taxed)
> 4 children x child benefit: €588 per month (I get nothing for the eldest, and he eats the most)
> *Total net pay: €4,688 per month*


 
It would be more helpful if we treated this as a real case, which in essence it is. Can we start with the income.

A 50K income. What is that net?

B 77 * 52 = 4007K annually, is that tax free ?
C child benefit is 588 (can someone else confirm that that is a correct amount for 4 children?) X 12 = 7056K
D 500 (is that monthly?) X 12 = 6000K, is that tax free
E where is the overtime?

4007 + 7056 = 6000 = 17063 plus the salary. Who can confirm how much 50K is for a married man, spouse not working with 5 kids. Or confirm that the figure of 3600K monthly is correct. 

3600 X 12 = 43,200 plus 17063 = 60263 / 12 = 5021.91 not the 4,688 monthly amount posted.


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## ajapale

It looks like your husband is on point 7 of the salary scale for Garda Sergeants Class B pre 95.

from: 

Class A post 95
0   46,229       
1   47,337 
      2   48,493       
3   49,755       
4   49,755 
      5   49,755       
6   51,034       
7   51,034       
8   51,034       
9   51,034       
10   51,034       
11   51,034       
12   53,119


Class B Pre 95
          On   appointment    1   € 44,725.43
After 1 year   2   € 45,794.73 
      After 2 years   3   € 46,918.60       
After 3 years   4   € 48,131.28 
      After 6 years   7   € 49,368.00       
After 12 years   13   € 51,385.43


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## ajapale

Is your husbands enhanced pension option type (i) or type (ii) below?

(i) Purchase of notional service at full actuarial cost; (ii) union-sponsored AVC scheme

Does your husband intend availing of the early retirement options availiable to members of AGS / Defence Forces (but not in the broader C/P service)?



> 2.11.5 Gardaí may retire at age  *50* if they have 30 years actual service in the force.
> 2.11.6 The compulsory retiring age is age *57* for a member of Garda, Sergeant and  Inspector rank.


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## serotoninsid

Can you also itemise your average monthly electricity spend.


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## shigllgetcha

Is it possible for the husband to have full service by retirement age? An AVC might not be worth while if he has full service at retirement, a trap many people get sold into. Youll end up using the whole allowable amount you can draw down tax free on his garda lump sum and end up taking the money back out taxable on top of his pension if he has full service

Id consider atleast a break on his AVC if you are in that much trouble right now



Mrs Cornflakes said:


> clothing, footwear( my husband's a garda don't forget)


 
An allowance of €2.87 a week for the “maintenance of official footwear” also continues.

[broken link removed]


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## orka

ajapale said:


> It looks like your husband is on point 5 of the salary scale (Pre 95) for Garda Sergeants.
> 
> from:
> 
> 0 46,229
> 1 47,337
> 2 48,493
> 3 49,755
> 4 49,755
> 5 49,755
> 6 51,034
> 7 51,034
> 8 51,034
> 9 51,034
> 10 51,034
> 11 51,034
> 12 53,119


I think that scale is the post-1995 (full class A prsi) scale - which means (a) there isn't very long service and (b) the pension contribution (assumed by most posters to be an AVC) being discussed may the compulsory contribution that gardai have had to pay even before the pension levy was brought in - so stopping the pension contribution may not be an option.


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## shigllgetcha

orka said:


> I think that scale is the post-1995 (full class A prsi) scale - which means (a) there isn't very long service and (b) the pension contribution (assumed by most posters to be an AVC) being discussed may the compulsory contribution that gardai have had to pay even before the pension levy was brought in - so stopping the pension contribution may not be an option.


 
If it is its being counted twice as the net pay is given as €3600 per month and then the AVC is listed as a deduction again after the net pay figure.


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## Bronte

To all those making a suggestion that the garda stop contributing to the extra pension (AVC or whatever) he is going to need extra income to pay the mortgage when he retires. My understanding was that he is paying interest only on the mortgage.  Looks like mortgage is going to last into his late 60's and he must retire by 57.


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## shigllgetcha

Bronte said:


> To all those making a suggestion that the garda stop contributing to the extra pension (AVC or whatever) he is going to need extra income to pay the mortgage when he retires. My understanding was that he is paying interest only on the mortgage. Looks like mortgage is going to last into his late 60's and he must retire by 57.


 
Would it work better for them if it was paying some capital?

If we knew what service he will have at retirement wed be in a better position to advise. If he has very little service he can take more down tax free at retirement which would help seeing that he isnt too far from retirement now. Hed gain on the 41% tax relief


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## orka

shigllgetcha said:


> If it is its being counted twice as the net pay is given as €3600 per month and then the AVC is listed as a deduction again after the net pay figure.


The net of 3,600 is given by made-up-mrs-cornflakes... We don't know what that is net of. The IT article said there is 807 take-home per week and then a further pension contribution of 80 per week - we don't know what's in either.


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## Bronte

shigllgetcha said:


> Would it work better for them if it was paying some capital?


 
Probably, but so far it's very unclear on just income and expenditure and everyone has made things a lot more complicated with pay scales, pensions etc, it's very hard to follow.


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## shigllgetcha

Bronte said:


> Probably, but so far it's very unclear on just income and expenditure and everyone has made things a lot more complicated with pay scales, pensions etc, it's very hard to follow.


 
Yeh without the full details its all speculations


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## Mrs Cornflakes

rameire said:


> €528 a week for bills.
> 
> what bills cost €528 a week?
> 
> or should that be a month?
> or is part of that going into a savings pool for future bills?



Sorry, I  didn't explain that very well.  We pay €528 a week into the Credit Union as part of a budgeting scheme. From that, they pay the mortgage, the electric, the gas and, the insurance. 

So ignore that figure, as I have separated it out in the list of expenditure.


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## shigllgetcha

orka said:


> The net of 3,600 is given by made-up-mrs-cornflakes... We don't know what that is net of. The IT article said there is 807 take-home per week and then a further pension contribution of 80 per week - we don't know what's in either.


 
True sorry was taking it literally from this thread


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## Mrs Cornflakes

Bronte said:


> I
> 
> A 50K income. What is that net?



That is irrelevant.€50k is the basic.  His gross at the end of the year is about €65k. 



> B 77 * 52 = 4007K annually, is that tax free ?
> C child benefit is 588 (can someone else confirm that that is a correct amount for 4 children?) X 12 = 7056K
> D 500 (is that monthly?) X 12 = 6000K, is that tax free
> E where is the overtime?
> 
> 4007 + 7056 = 6000 = 17063 plus the salary. Who can confirm how much 50K is for a married man, spouse not working with 5 kids. Or confirm that the figure of 3600K monthly is correct.
> 
> 3600 X 12 = 43,200 plus 17063 = 60263 / 12 = 5021.91 not the 4,688 monthly amount posted.



I don't know where you are getting your As, Bs and Cs from. They are not on the payslip 




> Probably, but so far it's very unclear on  just income and expenditure and everyone has made things a lot more  complicated with pay scales, pensions etc, it's very hard to follow.




 I thought I had made it a lot clearer than my friend Kathy did in the paper.  It's you who is complicating it with your As Bc and Cs, but they don't put any bread on the table.

I have done it monthly. I was confused when Kathy talked about it weekly. Now you are talking about it annually.  That makes no sense. 

Just in case there is any doubt. 

My husband's gross pay is around €65,000. This includes overtime and allowances ( but not the living away from home allowance). 

His gross pay results in a net pay after PAYE, USC, Health Levy and  Pension Levy, but not the AVC is around €3,700 per month. Check it out yourselves if you don't believe me on taxcalc   eu 

I know what I get in Child Benefit - it's €588 per month. 

The €500 in unsocial hours allowance is tax-free as well, although I don't know why.

So we get a net after taxes each month of 

€3,6000 net pay
€500  unsocial hours
€588 child benefit
€4688   Total


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## Mrs Cornflakes

shigllgetcha said:


> Would it work better for them if it was paying some capital?
> 
> If we knew what service he will have at retirement wed be in a better position to advise. If he has very little service he can take more down tax free at retirement which would help seeing that he isnt too far from retirement now. Hed gain on the 41% tax relief



He was about 20 when he started in Templemore. 

He would like to stop at 55 when he will have had 35 years' service. Though, I can't see how he can afford to. 

By paying the €350 into the AVC, we hope to get it back in a tax-free lump-sum  when he retires. Isn't that better than paying tax on it now and paying that off the mortgage?


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## Mrs Cornflakes

ajapale said:


> Is your husbands enhanced pension option type (i) or type (ii) below?
> 
> (i) Purchase of notional service at full actuarial cost; (ii) union-sponsored AVC scheme
> 
> Does your husband intend availing of the early retirement options availiable to members of AGS / Defence Forces (but not in the broader C/P service)?



Thanks Mr Pale. I will look into this. 

I think he can go at 50 but has to go by 57. (Is that not age discrimination? ) 

He is free to retire now, but we couldn't afford to.  Anyway, I don't want him under my feet all the time - what with the 5 children lounging about when they are not at school or college. It's only a modest 4 bedroom house after all - not a palace. The two girls have to share a room.


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## terrysgirl33

Is the house in negative equity?  Does your husband plan to work at a different job when he retires (I have heard that retired gaurds are in demand, but I don't know exactly )?  How did he/you get a mortgage that ends 13 years after he has to retire?

ETA, just to be clear, I'm asking this because I think it's important to get a picture of your overall finances, not to blame or to be nosy.


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## dmos87

While I cannot comment on your husbands salary, benefits, etc., I can help with whittling down the day to day expenses that you have. 

First of all, start a spending diary. Every cent you spend or give to the kids, write it down.* DO NOT LEAVE OUT ANYTHING*. This is going to help you determine where your money is going, and where you can truly cut back. At the end of each day, look at the days outgoings and be honest with yourself; _could I have skipped that today? Did I/they really need that fiver for lunch when they could have made a sandwich at home? _etc. etc. 

I come from a big household (one of 7 siblings) and so I understand the cost that comes with feeding a big brood. You need to be purchasing good value items that will stretch for you - potatoes, pastas - foods that fill while being relatively kind to the wallet. One of the biggest things to do is obviously to meal plan so there is no waste, and always use up any leftovers.  And of course, switch to Aldi's or Lidl's to be kindest of all to your budget. This is where your role as the person at home comes in; you need to take control of this, and ensure your kids and husband take packed lunches with them every day - there should be no eating out costs and no money being handed to the kids to eat out.

Your child aged 18: Its time to get a job. I've worked in part time or summer jobs since I was 14 years of age, and its part of growing up. I contributed each week to the household financially (1/3 of my wage when part time, 100 per week when full time in the summer). I appreciate jobs are harder to come by right now, but they are out there. A friend was offered three part time jobs this week. Your Son (apologies if wrong here, I believe your eldest is male?) needs to do his fair part and its time to reduce the burden at home. 

Your child aged 16: The same applies. A fine age to start a part time job if they can, and if not there are odd jobs, babysitting, grass cutting, etc. Get inventive.

I assume the two eldest have mobile phones - and I can see you have a Phone cost of 170 per month. I have to assume that the mobiles are covered under this. Please expand for me if you can, as to the cost of each persons plan, and how you come to this amount - does it include a house phone? If you have your children on Bill phones, end this now. Having a mobile phone as a teenager is a decision they make and they should fund themselves - i.e. purchasing credit from their own money. There are great prepay plans out there. Its time to get tough - we are in a recession and you are struggling to feed your family. 

Do you have Sky? What about Broadband? If so, what costs/ plans?

What about cars - one or two in the household? If its two, how necessary is the second? You mentioned you moved closer to schools in 2005 and so a car should not be needed for school runs. Look to sell the second  car and cut down insurance, tax and petrol costs. 

You outline education costs of 300 per month for uniforms, et al. This is a very high costs, and while you have 4 children that need to be dressed and sorted for school, you need to get the most out of uniforms where you can - mending, sewing, you know the drill.  I know in terms of cutting costs on uniforms, buying shirts in Penneys or Tescos in the colour the uniform requires saves an awful lot and theres not a big difference. If you have girls and there are tights needed (as we had), Penney's do packs of 5 black dernier tights for 3.50. Tights don't tend to last long for girls and I know in my local I would spend at least 3.50 for just one pair in an emergency. 

Also  take a look into the schools Book Rental Scheme if there is one - when I was a teenager and working, I covered my own costs for my own books through this scheme. The books had to be maintained in good condition and given back at the end of the school year, but it saved my parents a few hundred euros without a doubt. It only cost me about 40 euros at the time - that's the cost of one science book now. I don't know if its in every school, but definitely ask in the secondary schools.

The most obvious thing here is that you yourself need to get a job. Part-time, full-time, childminding, anything to bring money into your home.  Your youngest child is 10 years old, and there is no minding anymore. I cannot understand how you are at home when your children are almost raised and can help out with household chores that you would have been doing when they were younger. You have time now to work, and a financial requirement to do so. Age has nothing to do with it. My mother works part time and childminds and is very happy doing so and is older than you with all of her children grown. Look for part time work in a local supermarket, or if you do want to remain in the house, look into childminding to boost your weekly income, or ironing, there's lots you can do. Have you any skills that can help the household financially? One example, an Aunt makes amazing crocheted baby blankets, excellent quality. She sells them to a local boutique who in turn sell them on to the public and it boosts her income. 

Finally, a big household clean out of any items ye don't want or need, and head to a car boot sale to flog the lot. Unused DVD's, Games, Books, Baby clothes, dolls, toys, everything and anything. You'll be surprised what you can make and you can enlist your youngest two to help you with it.


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## ajapale

orka said:


> I think that scale is the post-1995 (full class A prsi) scale -


yes orka I copied and pasted the wrong post 95 scale instead of the pre 95 scale. Ill fix this later today.


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## orka

ajapale said:


> yes orka I copied and pasted the wrong post 95 scale instead of the pre 95 scale. Ill fix this later today.


I think your scale is correct and he is a post-95 garda - the IT article says his base is 51,084 as a year-6 sergeant which is the post-95 scale (not quite as it should be 51,034 but way closer than the pre-95 scale).  This also explains the pension contribution he is required to make (c. €3,500 pa) which pre-95 gardai don't have to make.


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## Dermot

The €170 pm for the phone is ridiculous. I have a broadband package unlimited downloads, free calls to landlines and limited mobile calls free for less than 50 euro pm and wife and I have mobile packages which we get by on for €20 euro each per month.


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## ajapale

Mrs C, Do you need a land line? The fixed costs associated with land lines are very high.

A word of warning about Lidel and Aldi: Sometimes they present good value but not always. I find Dunnes have great value on some items you just have to be "price aware". Always check the unit price of goods. And keep himself away from the tools and gadgets on the specials days iat the German Discounters! True enough the bread can be cheap in the german discount stores but some of it is grey, dry, tasteless with bad best before dates and may end up with food being wasted. Check out the thread here on Lidle and Aldi.


aj


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## chrisboy

orka said:


> I think your scale is correct and he is a post-95 garda - the IT article says his base is 51,084 as a year-6 sergeant which is the post-95 scale (not quite as it should be 51,034 but way closer than the pre-95 scale).  This also explains the pension contribution he is required to make (c. €3,500 pa) which pre-95 gardai don't have to make.



Surely he's pre-95 if he's eligible to retire?


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## Eithneangela

I think a forensic examination of your spending is required - with the emphasis on the necessities. I have to say it looks as though you are spending a lot of money on non-necessities (extras, clothing, health insurance etc.) and maybe a little of the 'cast a cold eye' is needed here. While I empathise with your situation, I can't reconcile this with your problems. Sharing a bedroom with a sibling - that's not a major downer. Cutting down on your phone bills - that has to be a priority. Get rid of the landline, get rid of Sky or UPC if you have it - do a forensic check on all  your regular direct debits, standing orders, and cross a line through any which are not life-threatening. I have to say that I'm gobsmacked by the audacity of not being able to live comfortably on the salary that your hard-working spouse brings home!


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## Dermot

I have re read the whole thread and Mrs Cornflakes contribution to the thread is not making things clear. She states last years gross pay was €75000 an this years is €65000. Can she state where the €10,000 less in earnings evaporated. Remember there are 11 more weeks left in this year. Given the messy way that this has been presented it is difficult to make an assessment. Can we have a gross pay up to and including week 41, the total tax deducted, the total pension contribution(excluding the AVC), the universal social charge in other words all the compulsory charges by Government.  This will all be contained on the counterfoil for week 41. Then we can start somewhere to look at the situation without disputing figures. We need accuracy or nothing at all.


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## ajapale

chrisboy said:


> Surely he's pre-95 if he's eligible to retire?



Hes pre 95. Guards can retire at 50 and must retire at 57.

Pre 95 public service employees pay reduced modified prsi rate and a slightly higher superannuation contribution than their Post 95 colleagues. The post 95 public servants pay full rate prsi slightly lower superannuation and when they come to retire their pension will be reduced by the amount of the COAP which they can claim by virtue of having paid full rate prsi. This arrangement is called integration or coordination.


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## Bronte

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> His gross pay results in a net pay after PAYE, USC, Health Levy and Pension Levy, but not the AVC is around €3,700 per month.So we get a net after taxes each month of
> 
> €3,6000 net pay
> €500 unsocial hours
> €588 child benefit
> €4688 Total


 
I'm very confused about the AVC.  Is this an extra pension contribution your husband is making to have an increased pension.  (called an Additional Voluntary Contribution) I also think your figure of 3700K per month is incorrect for this.  Can you double check.


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## Bronte

Dermot said:


> . Given the messy way that this has been presented it is difficult to make an assessment.
> 
> We need accuracy or nothing at all.


 
I agree with you, maybe Mrs. Cornflakes or Kathy Sheridan could reply. I guess the payslip is also confused by the fact that salary is being diverted to the Credit Union Bill system.


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## Firefly

dmos87 said:


> Your child aged 18: Its time to get a job.
> Your child aged 16: The same applies. A fine age to start a part time job


 
A big +1 to this. It will prepare them for working/paying their own way later in life and by handing up something to the household, even if it's a token tenner a week, it will prepare them for paying tax in the future too


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## ajapale

Bronte said:


> I'm very confused about the AVC.






ajapale said:


> Is your husbands enhanced pension option type (i) or type (ii) below?
> 
> (i) Purchase of notional service at full actuarial cost; (ii) union-sponsored AVC scheme
> 
> Does your husband intend availing of the early retirement options  availiable to members of AGS / Defence Forces (but not in the broader  C/P service)?



So was I and Mrs C has said she will look into it




Mrs Cornflakes said:


> Thanks Mr Pale. I will look into this.



I suggest that Mrs C seeks indepentent advice fromm knowledgeable professionals when reviewing this aspect of their expenditure. Such advice from disinterested professionals with a working knowledge of Public Service Superannuation schemes (and the AGS subset in particular) is very difficult to come by. Mrs C could have a look at AAM's public service pension subforum to get an idea of where to look.


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## Mrs Cornflakes

I have complicated things by trying to simplify it for you all.

My husband's gross salary varies from month to month based on allowances and overtime. Last year it was €75,000 due to lots of overtime - (Obama and the Queen were a life saver for us. )  

According to my budget, this year he will earn around €65,000 gross taxable pay - it was about €49,000 at the end of Sept. 
This would give a net of around €44,400

He pays €4,200 in AVCs, so the net is reduced as follows: 

Normal Net: 44,4000
AVCs        -4,200
tax relief on AVCs +1700
Actual net: 41500
= 3,450 net  per month.

 I had worked it out at 3,600 earlier, so I wonder if there is a mistake in my calculations.  A big lump goes out to the Credit Union to pay our mortgage and other bills like that, so it's confusing me now. 

The Key Question is this though. 

With net salary and unsocial hours allowance and child benefit, I have around  €4600 a month. 


Left for food, transport, clothing, footwear & other: €2,100

How can I be expected to manage on this? 

What happens if his allowances are cut in the next budget? 

It they means test child benefit, will it apply to us?


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## Mrs Cornflakes

p.s. I can't provide a link to tax calc, but here are the calculations I use to get my net income 

Gross pay €65,000
public sector pension and superannuation €2,112
Public sector pension levy : €4,774
Income after pension deductions: €58,106
Paye @20% 8360
Paye @41% 6685
Total paye: €15,045
Tax credits : -€4,850
Net Paye €10095
prsi and USC €4,441
Net income : €43,569
= €3,630 per month 

You can see that my husband is paying  €21,000 a year to bail out the bondholders.


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## ajapale

Mrs C can you confirm that your husband is on the pre 95 salary scale (modified B rate prsi and associated superannuation deductions)?

"Sergeant B = sergeant paying ‘B’ rate PRSI (the majority)"

[broken link removed] is some information on the AGS superannuation scheme from the GRA.

Is your superannuation deduction on the payslip 2.5% + 1.5% (Widows and Childrens) = 4%?


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## dmos87

Firefly said:


> A big +1 to this. It will prepare them for working/paying their own way later in life and by handing up something to the household, even if it's a token tenner a week, it will prepare them for paying tax in the future too



Its more to fund their own lifestyles - trendy clothing they want, phone credit, etc. 

At their ages I was uncomfortable going to the bank of mum and dad for costs such as that, and I was told swiftly if I wanted extra I would have to work for it. It has done me no harm whatsoever, and what I worked for was appreciated more.


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## millieforbes

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> You can see that my husband is paying  €21,000 a year to bail out the bondholders.



I can't see that at all


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## callybags

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> Left for food, transport, clothing, footwear & other: €2,100
> 
> *How can I be expected to manage on this?*
> 
> What happens if his allowances are cut in the next budget?
> 
> It they means test child benefit, will it apply to us?


 
This to me epitomises the disgraceful sense of entitlement that people seem to have.

No-one is "expecting" you to manage on €2,100 per month.

If this is your income, and you do nothing to change either income or expenditure, then you MUST manage. That is a fact; not someone's opinion or expectation.


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## serotoninsid

callybags said:


> If this is your income, and you do nothing to change either income or expenditure, then you MUST manage. That is a fact; not someone's opinion or expectation.


On that basis, can the O.P. comment on their thoughts on telephone bill being excessive - and clarify electricity expenditure?


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## Dermot

I asked the OP a question where has the €10,000 loss in gross earnings occurred between this year and last year and this has not been addressed by OP.  Does your husband do shift work?.


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## redriddick

The €2100 that is left over every month is what alot of people have before they pay their mortgage and bills.You need to cut your cloth to suit what you have left.Get rid or cut everything that can be.You will have to make sacrifices to get your self back on track.Times are tough for everyone.I would rather have a sunday roast than have my phone,but maybe thats just me!!


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## chrisboy

Mrs Cornflakes said:


> My husband's gross salary varies from month to month based on allowances and overtime. Last year it was €75,000 due to lots of overtime - (Obama and the Queen were a life saver for us. )





Dermot said:


> I asked the OP a question where has the €10,000 loss in gross earnings occurred between this year and last year and this has not been addressed by OP.  Does your husband do shift work?.



I think she addressed it here.. No overtime this year.


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## Dermot

I have a relation who is a Dublin based Garda Sgt and while he said that there is a reduction in overtime hours it has not disappeared altogether. He was discussing this " Cereal case" with me on the phone last night and he was not impressed with the attention that it was bringing on their pay. During the discussion he said that he would earn about €67500 gross without overtime. This would include weekend allowances, night duty. rent allowance and other unsocial allowances. He has no other special allowances. He is about 25 years in the Guards and 7 years a Sgt.


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## deadlyduck

> Tax credits : -€4,850



One small point re your husband's tax credits: is he entitled to claim the 'stay at home spouse' credit for yourself? As I compute it, he's getting credits for married status (worth €3300) and Employee credit (worth €1650) to give €4950. If you are not working (as appears to be the case) and have children under 18 in education (per your first post you do) I think he could also claim the additional credit worth €810. It could be worth checking out- see .


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## ajapale

Mrs C, 

I appreciate that this must be difficult for you as it has been for the sympathetic journalist and the MABS advisor. 

The pay and pension structure for pre 95 civil and public servants is indeed complicated but not impossible to unravel. Perhaps some of the other posters here on AAM can shed some light on the pay roll calculations for  pre-95 civil and public servants?

At the very least I think it would be usefull if your discretionary and non discretionary pension contributions could be identified.

I think its to fair to state that your prsi rates and benefits are as follows:

*Class B *


*Subclass B1*
First €26 weekly income      0.00%
Next €26.01 - €1,443          0.90%
Balance                            4.00%                                       ​ ​ *People within Class B*



Permanent and pensionable civil servants recruited prior to 6 April 1995
Registered doctors and dentists employed in the Civil Service
Gardaí, recruited prior to 6 April 1995 
 *Class B benefits*



Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Contributory) Pension
Guardian's Payment (Contributory)
Limited Occupational Injuries Benefits
Bereavement Grant
Carer's Benefit

Im some what confused about your superannuation contribution. Is it 0% for your husband and 1.5% for spouses and children? Again perhaps others on this board might know.

aj


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## dereko1969

Sorry can the mods explain whether Mrs Cornflakes is a wind-up or has definitively been identified as the "wife" of the Garda Sergeant in the Irish Times article. 

This is a pointless thread otherwise.


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## orka

It's not a wind-up but it is made up (there have been a few references to that) - on the main cornflakes thread there was a suggestion that someone might do a mock-up of the garda's wife's situation so that posters could offer constructive suggestions rather than general rants.  It seems like that wasn't clear to all posters though...


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## terrysgirl33

First of all, I’m sorry you are in this position.  I know things could be a lot worse, but it’s bad enough, and it’s a horrible feeling to be trapped with no way of changing things.

CURRENT PROBLEM: your (family) income is less than your expenses.  To solve this, you need to cut expenses and/or increase income.  One thing I am not clear on, is your mortgage interest only or are you repaying it?  If it’s interest only, how do you plan on re-paying the capital?

INCREASE IMCOME:
-	Invite the Queen and President Obama back again.
-	Petition the government until they reverse the paycuts and extra charges like the pension levy and Universal Social Charge.  You can try this, but in the “current economic climate” I think you are not going to get anywhere.
-	Get more money from your parents.  You mention that they are on a pension.  I don’t think this is a runner, but it seems to be where you are getting the extra money at the moment when things are tight.
-	Stop AVCs.  Financially it makes sense to put money into these, but there is no point in this when you cannot afford to eat.
-	Get a job (as a SAHM).  Since your youngest is 10, you should be able to get a full time or part time job.  You may not have thought you would have to do this, but I think you have to consider it.
-	Get the children, particularly the 16 and 18 year old to get jobs and contribute to the running expenses of the family.
-	Take in language students during the summer, or for 5 days a week (digs) during the college term (presuming you live close to a college).
-	Get a full time lodger, this is tax free income under the rent-a-room scheme.
-	Sell unused DVDs, electronic goods, old phones, take clothes to places that give you cash for them etc. etc.


DECREASE EXPENSES:
-	Look closely at what you (as a family) are spending on clothes, food, heating etc and cut down or move to a cheaper provider.
-	Sell the house and move to a cheaper one.
-	Sell a car, getting some money in and cutting down on running expenses.
-	Sell the TV, getting some money and getting rid of licence fees and any  UPC or cable fees.
-	Move the kids to a school with cheaper fees/uniform.


In the case of the 18 year old (I am presuming this is the child who got into a good course this year).  If your parents offer money I would say no.  Can you talk to him/her and explain that you would like to pay, but you just don’t have the money.  It is probably too late, but could they accept the course, defer for a year and pay the fees themselves next year?

IN THE FUTURE:
3 years from now.  You say your husband wants to retire at 55.  At that stage your kids will be 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21.  Are you expecting to be paying two sets of college fees at this stage?  Unless something happens, I can’t see how you can’t afford this.  Talking to other parents (my kids are only in primary school) the college years are the most expensive, have you planned for this?

5 years from now.  Your husband will have to retire at this age.  You are suggesting that this is ageist, but it sounds like your husband is not willing to stay working anyway, and after 35 years working as a guard I can understand this.  Have you talked to him about this?  Have you talked about how you will manage financially?  Your kids will be 15, 17, 19, 21 and 23.  Possibly 2 of them will be in college.  Have you a plan to pay for fees, or anything else?  Would it be possible for your DH to be a SAHD while you go back to work?

Are you waiting for your parents or his parents to die, and use the inheritance to pay off the mortgage?

I would suggest that you have a chat with your kids.  Explain that as much as you would love to pay for anything, you can only afford to support them through secondary school (and only for uniform and books, discretionary spending clothes and the like will have to be bought out of money they earn themselves) but at college, the most you can help is either €X or by letting them live at home, rent free, until they graduate.


If this is a post, based on the info in the cornflakes thread, then I don't think there is enough information to give proper advice on.


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## Marion

I just wish people would stop making fun of you.

You aired your opinions in a very public forum - the Irish Times. You looked for sympathy. You didn't get it. Here or elsewhere.

We had a go at you here. I include myself in this. You deserved some criticism.

And then, we had another go at you here.

People get stressed out over many issues. Perhaps if you had thought through your stresses and financial problems with your spouse, children family and friends you might not now be subjected to the public opprobrium that is being levelled, perhaps unfairly, at you.

We all need to step back a bit and look at ourselves.


Marion


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