# Where do I stand with my Hilux insurance?



## Drakon (27 May 2015)

I bought a new Hilux Twin Cab in 2013. This was taxed as a commercial vehicle (i.e. I pay €333 per annum motor tax and have an annual CRW / CVRT test of €111).

At the time my occupation was gardener and part time farmer.

In 2014 I did a little shopping around I discovered that a "Gardener - Non VAT registered" commanded an enormous insurance premium. Therefore I renewed it with the same insurance company.

Now its 2015 and insurance is up for renewal, going from €487 to €765. That's a jump of about 50%!!!
My main occupation at present is a SAHF (stay at home father). I'm still a part time farmer, in the background, so to speak. As for the gardener job, I don't have time for that. The business still exists and I made a tax return last year and will make a return in October coming, but I don't expect any income.

Is it possible to still insure the Hilux as a commercial vehicle, with commercial motor tax rate and commercial insurance, with two baby seats in the back of the cab?

On a side note, I now find the term "occupation" vague. What does it actually mean and is there any legal basis to it. When I was a typical software engineer in a PAYE job my "occupation" was quite straight forward.
Now it's not. I'm a SAHF. I have a gardening business. I "tip away" at a farm. I'm also a landlord.


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## Jimbobp (27 May 2015)

You need to disclose your occupation to your insurer (or to any new potential insurer if you're shopping around). The danger being, that if you have a claim of any sort and the company believe your occupation is different to the one stated, it can cause all sorts of issues.


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## peteb (27 May 2015)

You are getting the tax definition of commercial vehicle mixed up with insurance definition of it.  Insurance companies can only insure it on a commercial vehicle product given the type of vehicle it is.   So they don't care about the rest.

The occupation is important as it forms the basis of rating with some insurers.  And others won't accept certain occupations.  If you say you are SAHF they will probably look for you to sign a SDP declaration noting you only use the vehicle for social use and not work.  As they don't like the unknown nature of the occupation.  i.e they rate you as a SAHF and then you are chucking sheep in the back of the Hilux.


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## Drakon (28 May 2015)

In that case I could just get normal private motor insurance on it? How do prices compare between private and commercial insurance for the same vehicle?


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## peteb (28 May 2015)

Drakon said:


> In that case I could just get normal private motor insurance on it? How do prices compare between private and commercial insurance for the same vehicle?



no.  you can't.  What I am saying is that from an insurance perspective its a commercial vehicle product / van product.


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## Drakon (28 May 2015)

So if a vehicle is taxed commercially then it can only be insured commercially.
And if a vehicle is taxed privately then it can only be insured privately?
In which case I must insure my Hikux commercially.


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## mathepac (28 May 2015)

In which case any child seats must be removed.


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## Drakon (28 May 2015)

That used to be the case years ago. A commercial vehicle was only permitted one "row" of seats. And stopping for a pint on milk on the way home from work was also a breach.
But that's changed, especially with the advent of "twin cabs". Now two "rows" are permitted. And the litre of milk.


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## JohnJay (28 May 2015)

I have a commercial vehicle (not a crew cab). It has commercial insurance, but the policy says that its also insured for "social, domestic and pleasure purposes", which I think would include pints of milk and baby seats.


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## Drakon (29 May 2015)

Dropped into the local insurance office and got it all sorted, for €580. No problem with milk, babies, car seats, etc.
Commercial vehicle in model, tax and insurance to be used in any usual manner.  Occupation advised as farmer.


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## mathepac (29 May 2015)

JohnJay said:


> .. the policy says that its also insured for "social, domestic and pleasure purposes"


Hopefully that's "social, domestic and *leisure* purposes" unless you want to get arrested.


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## Sandals (30 May 2015)

Commercial tax and baby seats however do not go together....if stopped by gardai, you are in trouble...


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## Drakon (30 May 2015)

I believe that was the case back in the day but with the latest regulations 'tis all cushtie. So long as there is a legitimate seat for the occupant they don't discriminate on the occupant.
But in principle, I agree with you. It's a bit like a taxi driver at the end of his shift taking the bus lane home.


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## Ravima (30 May 2015)

Drakon - talk to your broker/insurer to be sure to be sure! You have a certain interpretation of the law, insurer might differ and remember, the lad in thi high chair (judge) has the final say!


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## Drakon (30 May 2015)

As mentioned above, I called into my local broker and discussed all this. My interpretation is what the broker told me.


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## JohnJay (31 May 2015)

the insurance company will cover for social, domestic and *leisure* purposes.
The guards wont get involved - the vehicle is taxed, insured, safe, roadworthy and the child is in a child seat. No traffic laws are broken.
Revenue and the local car tax office might be a little upset if they think that you are not paying the correct VRT or Car tax, but this is a civil issue, not a criminal one so it has nothing to do with the guards. 
Anyway, you are a legitimate farmer. Revenue or the tax office will be happy with that. Nobody expects a farmer (or any other business) to have one vehicle for business use and another for bringing the kids to the creche.


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