# Car park terms and conditions



## wheeler (20 Jul 2010)

*Overview*: 
a. I have been parking in a car park from Monday to Friday since June 2004.  This car park is part of a shopping complex.

b. I enter in the morning at approximately 9 am, buy lunch and leave the car park at approximately 1 pm with a validated ticket.
I then re-enter the car park at 1.15, buy dinner and leave the car park at approximately 5.30 pm with a validated ticket.
The reason I do this is to keep the cost downby getting a validated ticket. My ticket is validated if I spend money in the supermarket there.

c. Since at least February 2010, as I have been exiting the car park I have been told on various occasions by the cetnre manager that I am breaching the car park conditions and would be clamped. I explained that I didn't think I was breaching the rules and kept parking there. I was not clamped even though it is quite visible that I was still parking there. 

d. So today they refused entry on the basis that I was breaking the terms and conditions. I left without argument because the centre manager stayed looking from a distance and send one of his staff to refuse entry so I didn't see the point in arguing the point with someone just carrying out instructions.

Extra points
1. I know lots of others who do this and are never hassled 
2. I have been doing it for over 6 years so what is the issue now? 

Can anyone tell me - 
1. Have I got a right to park there given that I spend money there every day - therefore fulfilling the customer only condition?
2. Am I breaching the all day parking rule if I move the car out once a day?
3. Does the fact that I have been doing this for over 6 years hold any sway


Opinion - Take the terms and conditions and rights away - I'm clearly spending a lot of money at this centre (not just the lunch/dinner scenario but weekly shopping, using the various shops in the centre on a weekly basis) and I can't understand why they want to stop this? I know they are just the management company acting on behalf of the centre owners and maybe are just following the rules but common sense is not prevailing here as I am not blocking anyone else from parking there (there are many free spaces at any time of the day). It just doesn't make common sense, even if it makes legal sense.


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## Acctran (20 Jul 2010)

What conditions are you breaching ?  

Do you pay a weekly fee for the car park ?  or do you pay daily in the morning and again in the afternoon.

When you say the ticket is validated are you getting a refund for the price of the ticket every day, is it the full amount ?


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## shesells (20 Jul 2010)

A validated ticket is generally when you take a machine on entry, spend money in the shop and they validate your ticket so you don't have to pay on exit. So it looks like the OP is parking for free?


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## wheeler (20 Jul 2010)

shesells said:


> A validated ticket is generally when you take a machine on entry, spend money in the shop and they validate your ticket so you don't have to pay on exit. So it looks like the OP is parking for free?


 
Almost - in this case it means that I get a reduced payment fee. It is not a weekly ticket. I get one in the morning - validate it and leave. I then return, get another one - validate it and leave.


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## iscritto (20 Jul 2010)

Unless they have a clause ... something like you cannot re enter for a number of hrs after leaving.  Try talk to the manager yourself or the manager of the shop you do your weekly shop in. You would think that logic would mean they would allow you to continue to park here as you do shop in the centre.


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## Leo (21 Jul 2010)

I presume this is a private car park? If so they may refuse you entry if they wish.
Leo


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## huskerdu (21 Jul 2010)

Is there a clause that says that the car park is for use of those using the shopping centre ?
The OP shops for 20 minutes and then leaves the car there for 4 hours when not in the centre, and does this 10 times a week. 
This could easily be against the T&Cs of the car park.
Also, as has been said, its a private car park so you have no absolute right to be allowed to use it anyway.


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## wheeler (21 Jul 2010)

Let's take the rules and regulations out if this. 

1. I am now no longer paying parking at the shopping centre
2. I am now no longer spending money in that shopping centre
3.I wasn't blocking anyone from using the car park as there are always spaces and by default not blocking anyone from spending money there

Does it make logical sense to stop a paying, spending customer from using that car park? Who has benefitted here - other local shops in the area and the local council as now my money goes to them instead.
The owner of the centre and the shops in the centre are the ones losing out because their management company are refusing entry.

Might move this to a letting off steam forum now!


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## wheeler (21 Jul 2010)

I moved this to the 'Letting off Steam' forum but it has disappeared from 'todays posts' - why?


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## dereko1969 (21 Jul 2010)

because the lower depths don't feature in "today's posts" or "new posts".

i think the logic of the car park owners was that they didn't want someone taking the proverbials so were quite happy to lose your custom.


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## VOR (21 Jul 2010)

I would be very surprised if the T&C's did not make it very clear that you can use the parking while you shop in the centre. You walk out each morning and afternoon leaving your car there.  I think they are entitled to refuse you.


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## wheeler (21 Jul 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> because the lower depths don't feature in "today's posts" or "new posts".
> 
> i think the logic of the car park owners was that they didn't want someone taking the proverbials so were quite happy to lose your custom.


 

I think you are right about just taking a fix on it. It just makes no sense. They haven't lost my custom as they will still get paid for managing the place. It's the shops in there and the owners they represent that have lost my custom.


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## mf1 (21 Jul 2010)

"Let's take the rules and regulations out if this."

I think you should leave them in!

Most shopping centre car parks do not want people parking there all day. It is for customers who come in, do their shopping and leave. Not for people who park for work, do some shopping, leave for 15 minutes and then come back in. 5 days a week. That is not what the user is designed for. 

mf


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## MandaC (21 Jul 2010)

In the terms and conditions, there is probably a clause about all day parking and the parking being valid only for the time you spend in the shopping centre.

Even so, they have clearly made their position clear, you obviously have rubbed them up the wrong way big time if a posse waited to oust you!

Personally, I would be annoyed too if I were centre management.  Neck like a jockeys immediately springs to mind.  Have you seriously parked there since 2004 and expect to get away with till you retire?.  Do you actually work in the shopping centre itself, some centres have staff discount for their staff that you might be able to avail of.


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## huskerdu (22 Jul 2010)

wheeler said:


> Let's take the rules and regulations out if this.
> 
> 1. I am now no longer paying parking at the shopping centre
> 2. I am now no longer spending money in that shopping centre
> ...



You have for many years been using a privately owned car park which is provided for the benefit of users of a shopping centre. You use the centre for approx 4 hours a week ( my guess) and you use the car park for 40 hours. 
The owners of the car park have told you to stop, as is their legal right. 

You can argue how many angels will fit on the end of a needle for ever, they have decided that they can do without your custom and  you are just going to have to get over it.


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## csirl (22 Jul 2010)

They are probably also worried that other people may copy you, particularly since local authorities are generally speaking, turning a lot of parking into paid parking and also because Revenue is clamping down on parking at places of work by making it a benefit in kind. They are afraid that within a couple of years, their carpark may be full of people leaving their cars all day while at work and shoppers wont be able to park.


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## rustbucket (23 Jul 2010)

It is worthwhile asking them for a copy of their terms and conditions. They should be clearly posted.

If it is not mentioned in the T&C about an acceptable lenght of time customers are allowed park there then you are doing nothing illegal or technically wrong.You have found a loophole which they now seem to have copped on to and are trying to stop. If it is a Privately run carpark they are fully entitled to do so.

I saw a programme on carparks in the UK recently and something similar came up. Most carparks in the UK have specific acceptable time limits clearly posted. Some even have a once a day rule. In one case at a MCDonalds Drive in, Someone went to get food, parked in the carpark and subsequently left. They then realised they forgot something, went back, parked in the carpark again. They received a fine as a Camera system noted the reg plate coming in twice. Harsh in this case but no exceptions. They also fined someone who actually went to McDonalds twice in one day and spent money on both occasions also.

So, you have gotten away with Extremely cheap parking for the last couple of years. TBH im surprised you have been able to ride the luck for so long! Fair Play but it seems they are wising up!


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## Bill Struth (23 Jul 2010)

What a chancer!


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## VOR (23 Jul 2010)

Bill Struth said:


> What a chancer!



At 40 hours a week over 48 weeks for 6 years he's a chancer with €11,500 in his pocket. (assuming a very conservative €1 an hour).
Good while it lasted.
Wheeler - Mine's a Guinness!


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## liaconn (27 Jul 2010)

I think you have a cheek. If everyone did this there would be no parking left for genuine customers (for whom the shops depend on for business). You've got away with it for this long. You should count yourself lucky instead of looking for a way to challenge it.


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## wheeler (27 Jul 2010)

Update here for everyone:

Met the guy that owns a coffee shop in the complex on the street and was asked where I had been lately so I told him the story. (I got to know a lot of the managers/owners of different shops over my time in there)

He is bringing it up at the next meeting (not sure what this is but I assume it is a management meeting).

Anyway - this is either a case of building up a relationship with shop owners over the last number of years or MONEY TALKS! (Loss to his shop will be 5 people x 2.80 x 5 days per week - a group of us do a coffee run each day and because of my story we have all stopped going there)

He promised to let me know what happens so I'll keep you updated. I don't expect much though as he is one small voice.


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## DB74 (27 Jul 2010)

Get the coffee shop owner to validate the ticket


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## RonanC (27 Jul 2010)

wheeler said:


> and because of my story we have all stopped going there)


 
Bit of a hypocrite really, what has the coffee shop owner done to you that is stopping you from buying coffee from him or her? You have a gripe with the owners/management of the centre/carpark for what looks like abusing the carpark terms and conditions. 

Shopping centre carparks are designed for short term stays, for shopping in the centre, and not for buying a take away coffee and going to work elsewhere for the entire day and expecting to be able to park for free.


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## wheeler (27 Jul 2010)

RonanC said:


> Bit of a hypocrite really, what has the coffee shop owner done to you that is stopping you from buying coffee from him or her? You have a gripe with the owners/management of the centre/carpark for what looks like abusing the carpark terms and conditions.


 
The management company have informed me that they have the support of all the leasees of the complex and that they are carrying out their rules and regulations.
So that's fine. So to that coffee shop owner I pointed out the consequences of that. Don't get me wrong - we had a friendly conversation and debated the ins and outs of it all (and mostly from his point of view). So we both agreed that we saw the point in theory but not in practice.

I'm still at a loss as to how people are thinking.  I'm in no way arguing that there are rules and regulations. My point is:
1. I was not blocking custom
2. I was bringing money into the centre

What was the point in enforcing this rule?


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## Staples (27 Jul 2010)

wheeler said:


> I'm still at a loss as to how people are thinking. I'm in no way arguing that there are rules and regulations. My point is:
> 1. I was not blocking custom
> 2. I was bringing money into the centre
> 
> What was the point in enforcing this rule?


 
Probably because if this became a tolerable practice, more people might do it. This creates the risk that it would become, de facto, a long-term car park and not appropriate for the purposes for which it was intended. 

I wouldn't blame you for taking advantage of the loophole, but equally I think you have to accept it was only a matter of time before the same loophole was closed.


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## Caveat (27 Jul 2010)

+1 Staples.


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## fizzelina (27 Jul 2010)

Some car parks have a policy of first 2 hours free then an hourly rate (eg Pavilions in Swords) This works well as genuine customers get to shop and it is free (most people spend 2 hours or less on a weekly supermarket / run some errands / browse around shop) and for people like Wheeler they can't take advantage of free parking for a full day.


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## liaconn (27 Jul 2010)

Wheeler

If the car park was full all day with cars whose owners were only going to purchase a ham roll at lunchtime and a microwave dinner at 5.30 how on earth do you think the shops in the complex would do business? The issue isn't *you *parking in the car park, it is commuters taking up all of the spaces for the full day on the basis of a couple of minor purchases.


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## Slash (27 Jul 2010)

All of this is irrelevant. It is a private car park, so they can refuse you entry for something or for nothing. They don't have to provide an explanation. There is nothing you can do about it.


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## orka (27 Jul 2010)

wheeler said:


> My point is:
> 1. I was not blocking custom
> 2. I was bringing money into the centre


That's like saying that it's okay to use any service for free so long as there's capacity and so long as you give some sort of custom - like sneaking into the cinema if there's spare seats would be okay so long as you buy popcorn - it's fine(ish) if only one person does it but it all falls apart if everyone wants to do it - why should you be the one to be allowed to?  It's the 'little me' argument - so long as it's only little me breaking the rules what's the harm...


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## MandaC (27 Jul 2010)

RonanC said:


> Bit of a hypocrite really, what has the coffee shop owner done to you that is stopping you from buying coffee from him or her? You have a gripe with the owners/management of the centre/carpark for what looks like abusing the carpark terms and conditions.
> 
> Shopping centre carparks are designed for short term stays, for shopping in the centre, and not for buying a take away coffee and going to work elsewhere for the entire day and expecting to be able to park for free.



Agree.  It is probably just as well I don't deal much with the public.  I would not have much patience for people.   My sister works in a ladies clothes outlet and she said the neck of some people in shopping centres and the things they try and do is unreal.

Ask mossy for help with the freemans argument.


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