# is it possible to buy a classic car and use it for their everyday driving?



## racso (17 Oct 2007)

Do people believe that it is possible to buy a classic car and use it for their everyday driving?

And if so what models would you suggest?


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## Caveat (17 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



racso said:


> Do people believe that it is possible to buy a classic car and use it for their everyday driving?
> 
> And if so what models would you suggest?


 
Do you have any ideas yourself in terms of type of car? e.g. cruiser/roadster etc

There'll always be a higher element of risk with much older cars and of course you can simply be lucky/unlucky.  I'd start by deciding what type of car you want and why.  

Either way, I'm guessing not many people would advocate that you rely completely on a classic car for everyday driving.  I think there are all sorts of anomalies in terms of reliability - e.g. a 60s Triumph can still command high prices and be fairly reliable but some 70s Jags come cheap - but can be spectacularly unreliable.

There are probably loads of vintage/classic sites which would advise you better.


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## Jeff_24 (17 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

Mercedes 280SL Pagoda.


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## RMCF (17 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

I drive a 1991 Toyota myself and have relatively little bother with it.

As long as you service it regularly and get any little niggly things fixed asap then well built cars can be used daily. But I think 'well built' is the keyword here. I believe mine is running so well because its a Toyota, but I also think that a lot of older cars were better built than those today.

Old Mercs and BMWs are a lot more reliable than the ones they build these days. Not so sure on the likes of 60s cars such as Triumphs etc. Perhaps these might not be suitable for daily use.


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## tiger (17 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

More that reliability, I would be concerned about safety.  Cars have come on alot in the last 10-20 years in terms of crumple zones, airbags, NCAP testing and so on.


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## Pique318 (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

A '91 toyota is hardly a 'classic' now is it ? And you don't buy a classic for the safety features !!!

Check out a few classic car mags as I was thinking of doing the same myself and there's loadsa cars out there that you'd never think about but the Classic Car mags are the place to start !!

Good luck, hope you're handy under the bonnet


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## z109 (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

AFAIK, if you are using it for everyday use - so you don't have another car insured and are doing reasonable mileage - you can't get classic car insurance for it. So make sure you do the sums on the insurance front.


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## bacchus (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



racso said:


> Do people believe that it is possible to buy a classic car and use it for their everyday driving?


 
I did exactly that few years ago and would never do it again...too much hassle with maintenance.

May be OK if you buy an heritage shell, e.g. a classic car that has been entirely stripped and rebuilt.


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## nissanfigaro (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

what about a 1991 Nissan Figaro?
I may be biased as I import them but the fact is they are rising in value by about 1000 a year
the 1 litre turbo engine is robust and economical
when you throw in the retro styling, convertible top, auto box, leather seats aircon all mods cons, there is one unique car!

pm me for more details


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## racso (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

Obviously i would need to do a bit more research into the car but the 3 that come to mind would be 

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=802397

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=428983

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/inde... is shown below.&CFID=580760&CFTOKEN=97079135

The 'new classics' like the figaro and mitsuoka are and can be very nice i just think they can lokk kinda strange with a very up to date reg on them

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/inde... is shown below.&CFID=580760&CFTOKEN=97079135


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## Caveat (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

You could try emailing honestjohn to get his opinion - the cars you have linked to do not feature in his car by car breakdown.

www.honestjohn.co.uk 

I've contacted him twice and he does reply, although his responses are (understandably) quite brief so I would choose how I phrase the question carefully.


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## Paulone (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

Just prior to the introduction of the NCT, I had just completed 35,000 miles in a 1970 Morris 1300 that had been bought in Kildare in 1995 for the princely sum of £100 and put back on the road looking cosmetically awful but running strongly.

The car ran with minimal trouble, was broken into once and had a couple of ongoing issues (burned oil, slow leak in the hydrolastic suspension), but was essentially the best car I ever owned. Corroded electrics eventually caused it to go off the road and I gave it away (sorry that I did too but I couldn't hold onto it)

I believe it is possible to run a classic as an everyday car but there are some things that in my experience must be borne in mind.

Older cars wear out a bit faster than newer ones, 20 years ago, a 10-year-old car was an old car, but current 10-year-old cars are much less aged. If you put an old car through a hard life, it will wear out and you can expect it to need a fair bit of attention to maintain - much more than modern motors.

Related to the above, don't treat your classic used every day motor as an investment. It probably won't hold its value having been put to normal use so maybe avoid going and getting a concours example - which will cost a fortune and has never been subjected to abuse. Just look for a good one which will do fine.

You need the help of a good garage/mechanic. I found garages remarkably intolerable of my Morris - many took one look and said 'can't help you' - this is despite the fact that there were (and still are) plenty of Minis and Metros knocking around with pretty much the same engine/running gear as my Morris. Don't expect an ordinary garage of uninterested mechanic to mind your car the way you will need it minded.

You might need to accumulate a small stockpile of parts that could be hard to get - such as glass, lights and chrome pieces. These could be nearly impossible to get easily but will cause your car to go off the road if they get broken in an everyday motoring tip. Scrapyards are now full of 80s and 90s cars so anything older than that will be hard to find.

For car insurance, you will probably only get a specialist policy, you might need to commit to a limited mileage and you will most probably have to join a recognised owners club for the car. Insurance should not be excessive tho.

If you're importing the car from the UK or the north, get one pre-1977 because you'll pay a flat registration fee (which I believe is less than €100). anything younger than that will have the fee based on a percentage of the Irish list price of the car when it was new, so if you're getting a car that was dear then it could be quite pricy to import now.

Get an unleaded conversion as most older cars need leaded petrol and Lead replacement petrol is just a pain to go looking for if its not available at petrol stations you go to regularly.

Apart from that - go enjoy. I would love to have another Morris now but cost and practicality rule that out right now. If you want to do it then go right ahead!


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## racso (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



Caveat said:


> You could try emailing honestjohn to get his opinion - the cars you have linked to do not feature in his car by car breakdown.
> 
> www.honestjohn.co.uk
> 
> I've contacted him twice and he does reply, although his responses are (understandably) quite brief so I would choose how I phrase the question carefully.


 
In fairness that guy does an unreal amount of work for people who use his site



> You might need to accumulate a small stockpile of parts that could be hard to get - such as glass, lights and chrome pieces. These could be nearly impossible to get easily but will cause your car to go off the road if they get broken in an everyday motoring tip. Scrapyards are now full of 80s and 90s cars so anything older than that will be hard to find.


 
that was one of the reasons i was thinking american as there should be a large amount of parts available online


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## amgd28 (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



Pique318 said:


> Good luck, hope you're handy under the bonnet



Now,now, that's a bit personal isn't it


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## bacchus (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



nissanfigaro said:


> what about a 1991 Nissan Figaro?


 
No yet a classic car IMO.. 
By definition, a classic car is to be at least 20 years old or 30 from a tax point of view.

New website started in Aug 2007 about classics. Still a bit bear, but eventually and hopefully will become busy.


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## RMCF (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



Pique318 said:


> A '91 toyota is hardly a 'classic' now is it ? And you don't buy a classic for the safety features !!!
> 
> Check out a few classic car mags as I was thinking of doing the same myself and there's loadsa cars out there that you'd never think about but the Classic Car mags are the place to start !!
> 
> Good luck, hope you're handy under the bonnet



I'll admit that a 91 Toyota isn't able to be termed a 'classic' yet, but give me a break, its 16 years old and running like a dream. I am continually being told that its time I sold it, but its a great car and there is no reason to get rid of it - with proper servicing and repairs I believe it will run for many years to come. They aren't many people driving around in 16 year old cars these days (they are all 06/07 according to that German ambassador).

I was sort of coming from the NI side of things, where you get classic car insurance a lot earlier than in RoI. I think my car might qualify already, but I appreciate that the OP was probably talking more about a 60s or 70s car than a 90s one.


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## bacchus (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



nissanfigaro said:


> what about a 1991 Nissan Figaro?
> I may be biased as I import them but the fact is they are rising in value by about 1000 a year


 
so if i buy a car from you this year , you buy it back from me next year for €1000 more, correct?


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## ang1170 (18 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



racso said:


> Do people believe that it is possible to buy a classic car and use it for their everyday driving?


 
Yes, it's certainly possible - I did so for may years with a sucession of cars that were between 15 and 25 years old.

However, I wouldn't do it now:

- you will never know setting out if you're likely to get to your destination without breaking down: the reliability of even the premium makes is way, way lower than even the most basic of modern cars (the comment above on modern vs. classic BMWs is just not true: ask anyone involved in servicing them).
- you run the risk of being off the road for extended periods if you're trying to source some hard-to-find part
- safety is much lower than any modern car (yes, you don't buy a classic for safety features, but if you're using it every day, you've got to ask yourself if it makes sense in modern driving conditions to be driving something that'll probably kill you if anyone hits it with any sort of serious impact)
- it'll probaby be roasting in summer and freezing (and hard to see out of) in winter
- it'll be tedious to drive in traffic
- you'll have to find someone to look after it, and you'll spend a lot of maintenance (not so much regular items such as oil and filters which will be cheaper, but in replacing worn out items).
- if your windscreen is damaged you could be in for a long wait or great expense to get it replaced (depending on model)
- all these and more problems will lead you to end up disliking the thing

Far better to have a a 2nd car to use at week-ends and the like, when the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.


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## RMCF (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



Pique318 said:


> *A '91 toyota is hardly a 'classic' now is it* ? And you don't buy a classic for the safety features !!!
> 
> Check out a few classic car mags as I was thinking of doing the same myself and there's loadsa cars out there that you'd never think about but the Classic Car mags are the place to start !!
> 
> Good luck, hope you're handy under the bonnet



Just had a think and was wondering what exactly qualifies a car to be called a 'classic'.

There are some cars out on the roads that are very rare and whose prices are on the rise, so these are already classics if you ask me, and will be even more in the future.

Thinking of the likes of the VW Corrado and Golf Mk1 GTi (both of which I'd love).


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## bacchus (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



RMCF said:


> Just had a think and was wondering what exactly qualifies a car to be called a 'classic'.



Few things found on the web ...Seems to answer your query with more queries

[SIZE=-1]


> Classic car is a term frequently used to describe an older car, but the exact meaning is subject to serious differences in opinion. ...



I had a look at various "classics" club/forums...and the description vary a lot. Some conider classics as being pre 1948..

[/SIZE]





> *The Controversy and Debate*: What exactly makes a classic car classic? Is it age? Production numbers? An industry consensus?
> The answer isn’t exactly clear. Even industry experts agree that no one truly has a firm idea of what constitutes a classic car, although everyone has an opinion. The controversy rages in industry circles over what cars get to be called “classics” and which ones don’t, and each expert comes up with his or her own definition of what a classic truly is – all of which adds to the general confusion.


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## Pique318 (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



ang1170 said:


> Yes, it's certainly possible - I did so for may years with a sucession of cars that were between 15 and 25 years old.
> 
> However, I wouldn't do it now:
> 
> ...


 

I think your argument has some merit but you also seem to be looking on this idea in a purely logical way, something that classic car owners will freely admit to not having any impact on their decision to drive a classic. If it did, no-one would buy them. 
It's an emotive thing, driving an old car. 
- Not knowing if you'll make your destination when setting off is part of the excitement nad can make a boring 100 mile trip into an adventure.
- You'll automatically drive safer than if you had a new car. If you get into a car with no crumple zones, no ABS, no airbag, no ESP, no Traction Control and just a seatbelt between you and the unknown, you are NOT going to drive like Sebastian Loeb. (Controversial point here, but modern cars have made us soft in our attitude towards accidents because we can see the remnants of cars and are amazed that someone got out of that alive.)
- If it's roasting in the summer, open a window. If freezing in the winter, warm it up before you go anywhere (that's if it starts at all  )
- Tedious to drive in traffic....what car isn't ??? 
- You will need to have a friendly mechanic and you'll get to know the car club guys and gals on a first name basis to find parts ets but doing it yourself is part of what makes owning a classic worthwhile.


RMCF said:


> Just had a think and was wondering what exactly qualifies a car to be called a 'classic'.
> 
> There are some cars out on the roads that are very rare and whose prices are on the rise, so these are already classics if you ask me, and will be even more in the future.
> 
> Thinking of the likes of the VW Corrado and Golf Mk1 GTi (both of which I'd love).


 


bacchus said:


> Few things found on the web ...Seems to answer your query with more queries
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Generally speaking, I suppose that an Escort will not be a 'classic' until it reaches 30 or more years old simply because of the numbers produced. However, a Corrado VR6 which was made up until 1995 could already be a classic. The BMW E30 M3 made from 1986-1990 is already definitely a classic. The thing that makes a difference here is the quality of the car obviously, but also the limited numbers of them produced.
Me, I want an E21 C2 2.3 Alpina. Just trying for find one for sale is depressing enough !


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## nissanfigaro (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



bacchus said:


> so if i buy a car from you this year , you buy it back from me next year for €1000 more, correct?


 

absolutely correct in principal!

however there is the small matter of my profit - I am allowed to make a few quid aren't I?


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## nissanfigaro (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



bacchus said:


> No yet a classic car IMO..
> By definition, a classic car is to be at least 20 years old or 30 from a tax point of view.
> 
> New website started in Aug 2007 about classics. Still a bit bear, but eventually and hopefully will become busy.


 

a Figaro was always destined to be a classic by virtue of the fact only 20000 were made and for one year only.

tax and insurance is cheap enough on them without having to wait 20/3o0 years respectively


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## ang1170 (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



Pique318 said:


> I think your argument has some merit but you also seem to be looking on this idea in a purely logical way, something that classic car owners will freely admit to not having any impact on their decision to drive a classic. If it did, no-one would buy them.
> It's an emotive thing, driving an old car.


 
Absolutely! if it was a logical choice, I for one would never have bought any.

I still think for everyday use, logic just has to win out. There's only so many times you can break down in an overheating classic on a wet Friday evening in Pearse St.

Having it as a week-end or occasional plaything is great. 

Still, I can understand someone with a different view (they clearly just have an even bigger dose of whatever bug it is I have!). But for someone new: do it with your eyes open, please!


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## Pique318 (19 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*

True, buy a sub-10 year old car for going to work/shop and have the classic as the plaything.

I really want to get one but try to buy a house with a garage (and a pit ) to store the thing nowadays !!


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## Dusty (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



bacchus said:


> New website started in Aug 2007 about classics. Still a bit bear, but eventually and hopefully will become busy.



Thanks for the link, I started the site because as I was starting to restore my '68 Elan I was finding it hard to gather information on speciaists and suppliers of Classic Car parts, restorers and clubs in Ireland.

There are lots of clubs and events here and also lots of knowledge, I'm trying to bring that together in one place.

These things are always slow to start, and its hard to find the time to put into it but I'll give it a go and see where it takes me.

Regards
Jon - www.ClassicCar.ie


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## Dusty (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



racso said:


> Obviously i would need to do a bit more research into the car but the 3 that come to mind would be
> 
> http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=802397
> 
> ...



Of those you have chosen the two american cars would be the least practical for everyday use. Mainly because of their petrol consumption (unless you live close to work or have a company fuel card)

The MGB is a great car (although quite common but don't let that put you off) The spares availablity is great and they are fun to drive and suprisingly practical - it is a hatch back after all.

I've just sold a 1974 MGB GT and in the couple of months I owned it did over 1000 miles with no hint of a problem. Now it was a particularly nice example with only 60K mile from new but they are around if you take your time looking.

Whatever you buy take your time and buy the best you can afford. A well cared for classic will put a smile on your face everytime you use it. A poor example could put you off for life!

Have fun searching and logon to www.classiccar.ie - shameless plug I'm sorry


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## jhegarty (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: An everyday classic?*



RMCF said:


> Just had a think and was wondering what exactly qualifies a car to be called a 'classic'.



*Exemptions from NCT*

 For NCT purposes, a vehicle that is more than 30 years old is classed as '_vintage_' and does not have to be tested. Classic cars are those cars aged 25 years or older and they must be tested until they are 30 years old.


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