# Financial advice for young family



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

Age: 37
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 49

Annual gross income from employment or profession: approx 110,000
Annual gross income of spouse: 28,000

Monthly take-home pay approx 6,000 (pay depends on number of hours worked in the month zone months shorter than others so from 4000 up to about 5600 is my take home pay plus 1800 from my husband)
Child benefit: €280
Partner Pay: €1850 per month
My pay: I'm on a daily rate contract for 12 months and my take home pay can vary from €3000 up to a max of €5900. I have my own company and business account and take the max pay home every month. I know people that take the min amount and then take the profits once a year so they only have to pay 12% corporation tax but we are just not in a position to do that. 

Type of employment: e.g. Civil Servant, self-employed
I'm self employed and husband permanent, full time.

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?
A) spending more

Rough estimate of value of home €450k
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: €198k, 30 year term, variable rate, 2.9%

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
PTSB personal loan €15k, 2 years left, 7.6%
Credit Union €8k

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? No
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? 2083, limit is €2000, interest rate is 19%

Savings and investments: €1800 in credit union which is tied to the loan

Do you have a pension scheme? No

Do you own any investment or other property? No

Ages of children: 7 and 4.
Childcare costs: €1240 per month
loan repayments: €850 per month
Mortgage:  €880 per month
Family member loan €1150
Groceries: €600 per month
Gym €25 for me, swimming pool. 
Kids activities €150 per month
Mobile phone bill: €70 pm
Sky: €110 pm
Virgin broadband: €70 pm
Cleaner: €80 pm
City bin: €15
Netflix: €15
Amazon Prime: €9.99
Life insurance: €110
Health Insurance: €80
Car insurance: €60 for my car (2012 estate), €70 husband 2006 fiesta
Alcohol/cigarettes: €0 for me as I dont do either and possibly €20 per month for my husband for a few cans. 

I've recently started to use a budgeting app which pulls all transactions directly from your current account. Based on the analysis I've seen so far we waste money on crap like lunches, take outs, eating out,  stupid stuff. In the region of €800 in Nov. 

The above are fixed monthly expenses. What I'm doing at the moment is looking at changing gas and electricity providers. Have been with the same one for 2 years, new provider can save us 470 per year and it's fixed rate. We will also change internet providers which save us €50 per month. Getting rid of Sky which will save us €110 per month. The savings we make here we will use to pay off the credit card. 

There is family loan of €1150 which doesn't need to be paid back immediately.

I've been quite bad with money over the years and I would really like for us to be in a better position and not struggle every month. Husband has been studying the last few years and he only started working the last 3 months. I was self employed for 5 years and then went perm for 2 years in 2017 and then moved back to self employed since October. The childcare cost is also relatively new.

I'm here to find out the best way to budget and manage our money and how to clear the debts as soon as possible while also taking into account the variance in my monthly take home pay.

And yes we have been very silly people over the years and wish I had found this forum sooner!

Thanks a mil.


----------



## David1234 (14 Dec 2019)

There is an odd trend developing in the Makeover section where people on very good combined incomes have significant outgoings and finding it difficult.

How much is left on the family member loan?

how many times are you eating out a month? €1,500 a month on food is very very high. Your groceries should be around €600 max.

I would stay away from trying to consolidate loans. You have enough left over to live a comfortable life each month and after 2 years you will have €850 a month extra. If you had extra money what would it be used for?


----------



## Saavy99 (14 Dec 2019)

170 a month on sky and broadband, 1500 on food, 70 on phones are shocking figures. Surely the food figure is an error 
 you are on huge salary but money looks.like it's just  just being frittered away.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

David1234 said:


> There is an odd trend developing in the Makeover section where people on very good combined incomes have significant outgoings and finding it difficult.
> 
> How much is left on the family member loan?
> 
> ...


So we just have 1150 left on the family loan, we try and pay as much off as we can.
Only this week I started using an app to really look at the spending and it has given me a figure of €1500. We shop at lidl every week and probably eat out 2 to 3 times a month and take out once a week. That figure also includes lunch at work a couple of times a week and coffees. I agree though it's way to high and will start setting some tight budgets.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

Saavy99 said:


> 170 a month on sky and broadband, 1500 on food, 70 on phones are shocking figures. Surely the food figure is an error
> you are on huge salary but money looks.like it's just  just being frittered away.


I know!! I was shocked myself but those figures are from an app I started using that analyses your spending based on actual transactions from your bank so it tags things automatically, some may not be entirely correct. Have found a broadband provider for €25 a month and just going to use Netflix and Amazon for TV so at least that's some savings. Phone contract up in Jan so will shop around before then. Will continue to shop at Lidl but will top up our revolut cards with €20  week and that can be used for coffee and lunches. No take away and we will reduce the number of times we eat out.


----------



## Saavy99 (14 Dec 2019)

Gomo, prepaid sim, just 10 euro each a month, www.gomo.ie
saving you an instant  €50 a month on the phones.
Keep a spending diary for a few weeks so you can see exactly where your money is going. Trawl through other posts here on money makeover forums and see how much you can save going fwd.


----------



## noproblem (14 Dec 2019)

Good advice given here and I see you writing for help at 3.30 am which might suggest it may be affecting your headspace and family life as well. You really need to get on top of this. I just saw health insurance at €80, if that's per month for the family i'd love to know what's covered because it's very cheap. People with aprox half your take home money can manage and I'm not scolding you.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

@David1234 sorry meant to include this on my reply. The problem is we don't have money at the end of the month, we always seem to struggle. Taking this month as an example we have 2400 left in salary and 1800 is due out between now and 31st Dec for bills, childcare and mortgage leaving us with €600 that has to cover two weekly food shops, fuel plus some xmas shopping. I know this is all entirely our own faults but I really need to figure out the best way to manage and budget our money. Jan pay for me will be around 3100 due to some sick leave in dec and xmas holidays so really want to have a proper budget in place by then so we don't end up borrowing more money from family.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

Saavy99 said:


> Gomo, prepaid sim, just 10 euro each a month, www.gomo.ie
> saving you an instant  €50 a month on the phones.
> Keep a spending diary for a few weeks so you can see exactly where your money is going. Trawl through other posts here on money makeover forums and see how much you can save going fwd.


Brilliant that's great, will definitely switch over. Thank you!


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

noproblem said:


> Good advice given here and I see you writing for help at which might suggest it may be affecting your headspace and family life as well. You really need to get on top of this. I just saw health insurance at €80, if that's per month for the family i'd love to know what's covered because it's very cheap. People with aprox half your take home money can manage and I'm not scolding you.


Definitely affecting my head space! I just can't believe how careless we've been and really very clueless.


----------



## cremeegg (14 Dec 2019)

A few thoughts.

Fault has nothing to do with anything here. You are where you are because of the choices you have made. You have decided you want to be in a different place money wise and are looking into how to achieve that.

You are high earning, you must be good at what you do. 

Your mortgage, the one thing that can be difficult to fix if it's out of control, is not excessive.

People on €138k a year don't usually worry about the cost of their TV. Thats not an argument for overpaying, just an observation. You are earning more than enough to be comfortable.

If you are a detail person who will analyse their spending closely, and not just for a few weeks like a new years resolution soon to be forgotten, then go down that route with the app etc. You will soon get control of your spending. 

If you are not a detail person or not likely to keep a focus on spending I suggest opening a spending bank account. Do a budget once. Your income goes into your main account, you keep enough in that account to pay the mortgage, child care and other fixed regular bills that you have no choice over on a monthly basis, and maybe eventually some savings. The remainder goes into the spending account. You can spend that as you like. If there is nothing in that account you can't spend it. Review every now and then. Sky is paid from the main account as on a week to week basis its not discretionary spending. Unless you decide to cut it out

You will probably not eat out in Jan or Feb or drink coffee, but unlike people who cannot save for a mortgage you can get to a place where you have money left over each month, your goal is achievable.

And don't even think about borrowing money for your day to day spending. That just allows you to not address your spending issues.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

cremeegg said:


> A few thoughts.
> 
> Fault has nothing to do with anything here. You are where you are because of the choices you have made. You have decided you want to be in a different place money wise and are looking into how to achieve that.
> 
> ...


I think the problem is that for 5 years while I contracted  we lived a nice life, we were renting and had low child care costs. The problem started really once I moved to a permanent job. We should have modified our lifestyle but we didn't which is why we have the 8k loan from CU. We also bought a house about 6 months before I switched so there has been more cost. Although the salary will be approx 138k per year we are still trying to catch up and get on top of things so I think we need to cut back on things like tv until we are in a better position. 
Our wages and bills come out of the one account but I'm wondering should we use revolut for things like groceries and fuel? Even though we get paid monthly should we budget weekly? Try to spread out the big payments over the month? 
The app is so easy to use so think I will stick with it for a while.


----------



## cremeegg (14 Dec 2019)

Good luck with it. 

As a matter of interest, what app are you using


----------



## goingforgold (14 Dec 2019)

I'm actually going to take a very different view here. Your pay is not 138k gross, (as mentioned above) it's 128k and that's max scenario...your net pay can be 5800 euro some months. Now from that if you deduct mortgage 870, loan 850, chilcare 1400 your left with approx 2700 per month (exc.family loan) to cover all bills (heating, electricity, car tax/insurance, diesel, house insurance etc etc), child related costs, food, clothes etc etc...

I'll be honest, I have a wife and two kids and we live modestly, no sky, no fancy cars, heating bills very reduced as access to turf/wood, no mortgage, no childcare costs...we spend on average 3.5k per month and would find it very difficult to live below that. That includes Christmas, modest holidays, running two modest cars, kids expenses which are endless, birthday parties,house maintenance, weddings etc etc.

So, while you definitely need to budget as there are areas that could and should be addressed, like the food situation...there still needs to be some realism as in my opinion you will not be saving loads no matter what you do...


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Can you clean up the figures for outgoings? Some are listed per week (child care), some are listed per month (mortgage) and some seem to be in totality (family loan). Similarly, E25 Gym - is this per month per person or what? It's hard to know what are fixed monthly or weekly costs, suggest you edit original post to make it easy to understand. List each expense clearly by amount and by timeframe. How much are you paying per month to your family loan? Is that included in the monthly loan repayment figure?

*1) Stop Borrowing*


Sumarisol said:


> So we don't end up borrowing more money from family.


Yes you need to stop borrowing money, from anyone IMO (family, bank, credit union, credit card. I assume you have cut up your credit card at this point?

*2) Understand Interest and Cost of Credit*


Sumarisol said:


> what is the balance on your credit card? 2083


Also important missing information, what is the interest rate on your credit card balance? In other words, how much interest are you paying on this loan per month? How much are you paying off the outstanding balance per month? (This is in effect another loan).


Sumarisol said:


> Amount outstanding on your mortgage: €198k
> What interest rate are you paying?
> Not 100% sure but think it is 2.5%


Please find out for sure and find out if it's fixed, variable or what. Also, what are the interest rates on two personal loans? Assuming mortgage rate is actually 2.5 percent, forget overpayment. You need to clear high interest debts first.

*3) Separate Needs from Wants/Nice to have spending*
I echo other posters, your grocery+broadband+sky+phone bills seem crazy high. 





Sumarisol said:


> probably eat out 2 to 3 times a month and take out once a week.That figure also includes lunch at work a couple of times a week and coffees


. You need to separate groceries (required) from eating out, eating in takeaways, lunches out, coffees out. Depending on that split, your *actual* groceries might only be a reasonable E800 per month, which sounds do-able me, saving you a whopping E700 per month (of non grocery spending).
For example, "lunch a couple of times a week" could be costing you 2 people * 2 times per week * 10 euro per person  =  40 per week * 4 = 160 month (could be double that or half that depending on what lunch is for you).
Takeaways once a week for 4 must be E40 quid per week so another E160 per month.
Finally, eating out 2/3 times a month for 4 people is surely E200-300.By that estimate you're spending around 500-600 per month eating food you don't cook yourself. If you're serious about this then id suggest stop eating out, stop getting takeaways, make your own lunch and stop getting coffees for a month and see how much you save.

*4) Hidden Spends?*
I see no mention of cigarettes or alcohol. Do either of you drink or smoke? If so, you must factor in monthly spending on these expensive discretionary items, and obviously reduce them.

*5) Child Benefit?*
My understanding is that Child Benefit is €140 per month for each child? Where is this E280 per month going? I don't see it being added to the effective take home pay per month figure.


----------



## Techhead (14 Dec 2019)

I too would also like to know the name of the app you are using to track spending. Sounds useful


----------



## KOW (14 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> Age: 37
> Spouse’s/Partner's age: 49
> 
> Annual gross income from employment or profession: approx 110,000
> ...



A few of these type of posts have appeared on AAM lately. I do not wish to upset you or insult you or other similar posters in any way.
But if you and others on such good incomes have not a grasp on basic finances I am of the opinion that you should seek out a friend or family member to set out and help you achieve your deserved goals.
To work hard and squander away your money is pure madness. 
Traditionally Irish parents have not discussed budgets and finances with there children. In my opinion this is also crazy.

Seek out help in the new year and stop working for nothing.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Well I think it's clear they have sought out help by posting here. Not all people are comfortable asking family for financial help either in an advice or actual cash manner. (and the OP may not want to do so considering they already have a family loan). Sometimes it's best to get the cold facts from independent observers - see my point above about actual groceries Vs eating out/eating in/buying lunch/ buying coffee all being lumped together into E1500 of a grocery bill which is simply not true. It's possibly E800 groceries plus E700 optional spending.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

cremeegg said:


> Good luck with it.
> 
> As a matter of interest, what app are you using


It's called wallet. I really like, very easy to use. €4 per month and it links directly to your bank account so you get real time data.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> Can you clean up the figures for outgoings? Some are listed per week (child care), some are listed per month (mortgage) and some seem to be in totality (family loan). Similarly, E25 Gym - is this per month per person or what? It's hard to know what are fixed monthly or weekly costs, suggest you edit original post to make it easy to understand. List each expense clearly by amount and by timeframe. How much are you paying per month to your family loan? Is that included in the monthly loan repayment figure?
> 
> *1) Stop Borrowing*
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the detailed reply. Il update my original post with the missing information. I don't drink or smoke, my husband is an occasional drinker as in might but 6 cans a month. You're correct regarding groceries, we use the buymie app to do the lidl shop and that tends to be between 100 and 150 per week. 
I think what I struggle with is the fact that some Bill's are weekly such as childcare and some are monthly such as loans and mortgage repayment. How should we plan our budget, monthly or weekly? 
We cleared the credit card balance a month ago with a tax rebate but its maxed out now because of  xmas presents and flights to Europe to visit a family member in Feb (I know, I know!).
Cutting the credit card up as we speak. 

Will get the rates and update post later. 

Really appreciate everyone's feedback. Even if some of it is harsh it's what I need!


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> We cleared the credit card balance a month ago with a tax rebate but its maxed out now because of xmas presents and flights to Europe to visit a family member in Feb (I know, I know!).


Ah come on! You spent E2083 in the last month on Christmas presents and flights to Europe when you JUST had cleared your card?! Seriously....you need to get a grip with regard to your spending.



Sumarisol said:


> You're correct regarding groceries, we use the buymie app to do the lidl shop and that tends to be between 100 and 150 per week.


As I suspected, groceries are actually E700 max per month, leaving E800 euro unaccounted per month thats being incorrectly labelled as groceries. If you  simply find where this E800 goes and saved it rather than frittering it away on discretionary spending (eating out, eating in, coffees and lunches etc) I think youd find you would then have a good chunk of extra money to pay your loans quicker.

You didn't say where is the E280 children's allowance going?


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> How should we plan our budget, monthly or weekly


I would budget monthly as you get paid monthly. I would have a direct debit into a Monthly Bills account that transfers enough for all known monthly bills (even if you pay them weekly). This way you know your bills are paid (pay them from this account only).
I would include mortgage and loans in this also. With this approach, all your mandatory bills are clear and separate.

Personally I'd put groceries to a separate account or revolut card, so you transfer in once per month, and that's it. Again, it's clear the spend then.

Whatever is left in main account is then yours to use. This will make it much clearer where your money is going. Based on previous post about real cost of groceries you will have E800 per month extra in your current account, which you can continue to spend by eating out our you can pay you credit card debt. The choice will be yours but at least you'll be able to see the wood from the trees (a.k.a mandatory expenses from your chosen lifestyle expenses).


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> Ah come on! You spent E2083 in the last month on Christmas presents and flights to Europe when you JUST had cleared your card?! Seriously....you need to get a grip with regard to your spending.
> 
> 
> As I suspected, groceries are actually E700 max per month, leaving E800 euro unaccounted per month thats being incorrectly labelled as groceries. If you  simply find where this E800 goes and saved it rather than frittering it away on discretionary spending (eating out, eating in, coffees and lunches etc) I think youd find you would then have a good chunk of extra money to pay your loans quicker.
> ...


Ha I know. That's my problem, any money that we had extra I considered it there to be spent. Thats a huge part of the problem so as well as budgeting properly I need to really change my mindset and how I think about money. 
We used to bank with KBC and so the child benefit is still getting paid into that account and there are a couple of DD still coming out of there such as car insurance X 2 and life insurance of 110 so that's about 250. We will switch them all to the AIB account.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Yes but my point is that is another E280 income that you omitted but you still listed the outgoing as a bill, thereby making it seem like you had more bills to pay from your salaries, which it isn't - life insurance and car insurance are basically for free from child benefit. Again, this further masked how much money you are actually spending on discretionary products from your main salary.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> That's my problem, any money that we had extra I considered it there to be spent


This is 100 percent the main issue here - and spend it you did, in fact even money you didn't have (I refer you back to the E2083 of Christmas gifts and European flights here). Realising this is the problem is the first step to sorting it so fair play for admitting that outright. Now you have the knowledge of how to resolve it based on all these replies.


----------



## KOW (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> Well I think it's clear they have sought out help by posting here. Not all people are comfortable asking family for financial help either in an advice or actual cash manner. (and the OP may not want to do so considering they already have a family loan). Sometimes it's best to get the cold facts from independent observers - see my point above about actual groceries Vs eating out/eating in/buying lunch/ buying coffee all being lumped together into E1500 of a grocery bill which is simply not true. It's possibly E800 groceries plus E700 optional spending.



 Agree with you thats why we all post on AAM.

Let me explain it this way. I was involved in a serious accident 6 years ago. Major surgery with over half dozen follow ups.
Earlier this year following another hospital stay I told the Consultant I felt we were at the end game and at this stage I felt there was no point going further. 
The Consultant said to me many patients sit across from him similar to myself and if he could push a button and they could go down a tunnel and out the door that would be the best thing for both parties. They were wasting his time and their own time because they simply dont or are unable to follow his advise and instruction.

In the new year hopefully one more go with the Consultant.

Now.

Yes an App or simple spending diary might identify where the jingles are going. But will the OP act on this on their own or will they take another holiday.
Without proper help I know where I would place my bet.


----------



## evil_g (14 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> It's called wallet. I really like, very easy to use. €4 per month and it links directly to your bank account so you get real time data.



This is probably worth breaking off into a seperate thread, but is this app safe? It's highly rated on google, but it asks for my online banking PIN....which seems very weird. 

Does anyone else use it?


----------



## llgon (14 Dec 2019)

KOW said:


> But if you and others on such good incomes have not a grasp on basic finances I am of the opinion that you should seek out a friend or family member to set out and help you achieve your deserved goals.





KOW said:


> Without proper help I know where I would place my bet.



Not sure what you mean by proper help. I doubt that the help provided by Username and others here would be bettered by a friend or family member of the OP.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

evil_g said:


> This is probably worth breaking off into a seperate thread, but is this app safe? It's highly rated on google, but it asks for my online banking PIN....which seems very weird.
> 
> Does anyone else use it?


Good idea about new thread, could you create that for discussion of the app? Don't wanna move the focus from the main point, the OPs finances....


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

KOW said:


> Agree with you thats why we all post on AAM.
> 
> Let me explain it this way. I was involved in a serious accident 6 years ago. Major surgery with over half dozen follow ups.
> Earlier this year following another hospital stay I told the Consultant I felt we were at the end game and at this stage I felt there was no point going further.
> ...


I certainly plan to take on board all the advice given here. I've already cut up my credit card. I would be absolutely foolish to take a holiday until we are on top of things and I certainly would not consider getting into more debt. The holiday is a 3 day trip to Brussels, staying with family, I dont expect us to spend more than €100. 
I came to the site to get advice on how to budget properly and to hold myself accountable for past mistakes. The app has been amazing in opening my eyes to the stupid spending we have done recently.  I can also see exactly how much money is due out over the coming weeks so well worth it and something I want to continue using. I was hesitant to hand over my details but no issue and my banking app recognized the external request and asked for permission. 
I would say my parents were not good at all in talking to us about money so really I've spent my whole life being a little bit This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language at managing but I'm hopeful that this will change and I can begin to teach my children the importance of budgeting and saving.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> Can you clean up the figures for outgoings? Some are listed per week (child care), some are listed per month (mortgage) and some seem to be in totality (family loan). Similarly, E25 Gym - is this per month per person or what? It's hard to know what are fixed monthly or weekly costs, suggest you edit original post to make it easy to understand. List each expense clearly by amount and by timeframe. How much are you paying per month to your family loan? Is that included in the monthly loan repayment figure?
> 
> *1) Stop Borrowing*
> 
> ...


I updated the original post with the figures. Just need to find out the CU interest rate.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Rather than me doing it, please add up all the monthly outings that you listed (600 for groceries is the correct number, excellent) and post the total here:

Total take home pay = 6000
Children's allowance = 280
Total effective take home pay = 6280 {A}
Total monthly mandatory bills = ?? {B}
Total money to clear debts or for discretionary spending = A - B

This figure is what you have in your hands every month, in reality. This should be much higher than you think and should scare you a little as to "jeez where is the going".

Also that you now say you are paying a cleaner E80 a month is remarkable considering your debt. Again this is a new discretionary expense that wasn't listed initially!


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

I did it myself:
1240 +
850 +
880 +
600 +
25 +
150 +
70 +
110 +
70 +
80 +
15 +
15 +
9.99 +
110. +
80 +
60 +
70 +
20 +
= 4654.99

Hence by my calculations, you have on average 6280 - 4655 = 1625 disposable income per month.

As we've said, some of your bills are really high like Sky, broadband, having a cleaner, having multiple TV subscriptions etc. You can easily reduce these.

Even with these completely unchanged, E1600 per month is left after all bills. This is the cash you need to reclaim from spending.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> I did it myself:
> 1240 +
> 850 +
> 880 +
> ...


Ok great. Thank you. Do you recommend putting some of that money away into an emergency fund or just off the debt? Or both perhaps?


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

Well first would be to stop spending it, obviously. Simply reclaiming even E800 of this per month would be a massive win (this is the exact amount I mentioned you could save on my very first reply). I would be very very strong here and push for E1000. That's barely over half, definitely achievable.
Personally, I'd pay most of it off your credit card off first, E800 each month. There is no point paying 19 percent interest in this. The remaining E200 I would put in a new savings account for emergencies. By March, your credit card will be paid. Report back here at that point and we can go from there.


----------



## Boyd (14 Dec 2019)

P.S. I would be astounded if a family of four can go to Brussels for three days on E100, regardless of staying with family. Please report back with exactly what you spend on this holiday (including Ryanair coffees, overpriced airline food, trains, eating out, souvenirs, kids activities, tourism stuff etc), as again this will come from your leftover E1625, meaning less can be paid off debt etc etc. 
To save money while travelling: did you know your can bring packed lunches onto a plane? Do that to avoid buying 4 rounds of food while travelling. Also bring some empty water bottles which you can then fill up from free water fountain once you're gone through security, to save buying soft drinks and coffees in the flight. Probably E30 quid saved right there.


----------



## Sumarisol (14 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> P.S. I would be astounded if a family of four can go to Brussels for three days on E100, regardless of staying with family. Please report back with exactly what you spend on this holiday (including Ryanair coffees, overpriced airline food, trains, eating out, souvenirs, kids activities, tourism stuff etc), as again this will come from your leftover E1625, meaning less can be paid off debt etc etc.
> To save money while travelling: did you know your can bring packed lunches onto a plane? Do that to avoid buying 4 rounds of food while travelling. Also bring some empty water bottles which you can then fill up from free water fountain once you're gone through security, to save buying soft drinks and coffees in the flight. Probably E30 quid saved right there.


My husband is staying home so just me and the kids. We will just go for walks and eat at home, we've done all the touristy stuff previously so it's really just about hanging out and catching up. Would always bring packed lunch on a plane for the kids anyway but would have bought coffees so shall refrain this time. 
Ok so my aim is to hold onto €800 and clear the credit card and €200 into an emergency kitty. I will report back. Thanks again.


----------



## Saavy99 (15 Dec 2019)

Enjoy Brussels and have Happy Christmas too


----------



## Leper (15 Dec 2019)

Gross Annual Income €138,000 + Childrens' Allowance - And I thought I squandered a few bob in my day! You make even me look good. With respect, thanks for that (I'm not being sarcastic). 

Live with me for a month and you'll be a millionaire shortly.

Regards
Lep


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

Leper said:


> Gross Annual Income €138,000 + Childrens' Allowance - And I thought I squandered a few bob in my day! You make even me look good. With respect, thanks for that (I'm not being sarcastic).
> 
> Live with me for a month and you'll be a millionaire shortly.
> 
> ...


Haha I know, I'm an eejit. But until this week I had no idea how much was coming out every month, not a clue! So it's not surprising it's been squandered away. The only defense I have is that we've only been on in the €138k salary since mid Oct. 
Happy to take any tips you may have on how to be good with money!


----------



## norahayes (15 Dec 2019)

I would suggest you go to Mabs.  They are excellent for budgeting advice and will work on a budget with you and tidy up bank accounts etc.  Consider opening a saving account and start saving for next Christmas in January. Keep this separate from any other savings and not linked to your bank account (to avoid temptation).   If you spent €2080 on gifts etc this Christmas you need to be putting away €175 each month just for Christmas.
I also think it is strange that your budgeting app asks for your PIN.


----------



## Clamball (15 Dec 2019)

Is your husband on board with all the changes?  Great if he is,  you need to work together.  

You seem very focused on this at the moment but you need to be careful not to swing too far from spending everything to spending nothing, because you will end up feeling resentful.

Maybe sit down together and decide the top 5 things to change each month and congratulate and encourage each other when it works.   Maybe decide with the savings you are going to achieve something by say July.  A debt paid off?  something saved for?

Work on getting rid of debt one by one.  Celebrate when each loan is behind you.  Then plan what you are going to do with the money you free up, saving for another debt payment or towards a family goal.

Replace the eating out/take aways with free to do things so you don’t feel deprived of the opportunity to have a good time.

Best of luck, you are in a great position to take control and plan what you want to spend your money on.  You control it, rather than stressing on how to cope with what is left every month.


----------



## Fella (15 Dec 2019)

I think the advice for someone on a high income has to be different than that to someone on a low income. There has to be extra perks that come with earning more income , I used to spend a lot of money on things that weren't worth it but it was a reward for having worked hard and having a high income.
I think if someone earning a high wage wants to watch Sky sports its less of an issue than someone earning minimum wage , its only becomes a problem if you are borrowing to fund your lifestyle. Obviously you want to cut back but I would be hesitant to cut back everything to a bare minimum , life is for living and if you have got yourself into the fortunate position of a high salary then its important to enjoy it.
We eat out a lot nowadays and our food bill would be extortionate if posted here I could save thousands a year cooking at home and buying the food from Aldi but I don't ever see it as a waste , I have paid money for a service and a product , I often see people say you are wasting money on Sky or eating out or Holidays or lunches in work , having a nice lunch out is not wasted money if you are enjoying the service provided more than you would have sitting at your desk.
Cut back to a level you are happy with is my advice but once essentials are sorted don't be afraid to treat yourself , there can be a tendency on AAM to advise living like a pauper and save it all for a pension , then you'll come back as a pensioner and say your spending all your pension money and you'll be told to keep it for your kids , then your kids will come on in years to come and they be told to put it back in a pension , money is meant to be spent basically.


----------



## Monbretia (15 Dec 2019)

I would suggest having a look at the MABS website, there is brilliant info there about budgeting as you would more than likely be waiting a while for an appointment in your situation, you won't exactly be high priority.  Now that said maybe MABS are not as busy as they were some years back and individual offices vary so if you have a few around you maybe ring around to see what the waiting time would be.   

Definitely start a spending diary of some sort, either a simple paper diary or some app or other, you can't cut spending until you figure out where the money is being spent.  I'd love a couple of days going through that budget/income    I have spending diaries myself going back 35 yrs, just thinking the other day it's time I threw them out!


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

norahayes said:


> I would suggest you go to Mabs.  They are excellent for budgeting advice and will work on a budget with you and tidy up bank accounts etc.  Consider opening a saving account and start saving for next Christmas in January. Keep this separate from any other savings and not linked to your bank account (to avoid temptation).   If you spent €2080 on gifts etc this Christmas you need to be putting away €175 each month just for Christmas.
> I also think it is strange that your budgeting app asks for your PIN.


It looks for the online banking login details so it can pull in the transactions from my account.


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

Clamball said:


> Is your husband on board with all the changes?  Great if he is,  you need to work together.
> 
> You seem very focused on this at the moment but you need to be careful not to swing too far from spending everything to spending nothing, because you will end up feeling resentful.
> 
> ...


He is definitely on board with the changes and is delighted I'm finally coping on. On Monday we will open another bank account for the discretionary spending. Would love to clear the CU loan and credit card and perhaps aim for a cheap family holiday.


----------



## Boyd (15 Dec 2019)

@Fella all of your points are perfectly true if you have the money, the OP simply doesn't and you haven't offered any actual tangible advice to help them. They are borrowing to pay for Christmas gifts, borrowing to pay for holidays etc. If they continue doing what they're doing not they'll be in even larger debt, as they will continue to follow their existing (and your suggested) "Money is for spending" approach. Don't get me wrong, it is for spending but with some level of cop on.

The reason I am saying stop eating out etc is that I have identified by asking the OP specifically awkward questions that they are spending E800 extra per month on such things that they previously hid (accidentally or not) under the heading of groceries, making it seem a necessity when it ain't. They have E1600 after all listed bills but yet have 3 loans and a maxed out credit card, amounting to around E25,000. And since you mention it, they have zero pension nor any emergency savings or contingency plans if an expense pops up. Let's get real here, their debt is an emergency.


----------



## Boyd (15 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> Would love to clear the CU loan and credit card and perhaps aim for a cheap family holiday.


Eh 3 out of the 4 of you are going on holiday to Brussels don't forget.

While it's a good aim, could you forget that for the next 6-12 months anyway please until you get your house in order and can pay for it without borrowing.


----------



## Leper (15 Dec 2019)

Hi Summarisol, I didn't know how you would react to my post. But, reading yours, I'm glad there are people around who'll spend a few bob. I am aware that the website is called Askaboutmoney and it is pretty much filled with people I'm glad I never met. There are exceptions. I'm looking forward to meeting Purple and yourself - hopefully it's in the south of Spain.

But, life is to be lived without being a slave to your income. There are far more important issues we all meet through life than the balance in our bank accounts e.g health.

Yours is a good complaint though and all you have got to do is rid yourself of Netflix etc (the "etc" being more important) and the extent of your eating out. Have a look at your childrens costs. Also, have a look at the income of your spouse. Would your spouse be better off not working? I'm only putting through solutions and not trying to dictate what your spouse should or should not do. 

If I know how to become a millionaire (and I'm not one by a long shot) it would be infinitely easier for you. With your income you can play guaranteed income Monopoly with real money.


----------



## norahayes (15 Dec 2019)

Leper said:


> Hi Summarisol, I didn't know how you would react to my post. But, reading yours, I'm glad there are people around who'll spend a few bob. I am aware that the website is called Askaboutmoney and it is pretty much filled with people I'm glad I never met. There are exceptions. I'm looking forward to meeting Purple and yourself - hopefully it's in the south of Spain.
> 
> But, life is to be lived without being a slave to your income. There are far more important issues we all meet through life than the balance in our bank accounts e.g health.
> 
> ...



I am possibly one of the people you are glad you never met and while I agree there are more important things eg Health than being a slave to your income, the OP is clearly concerned about his spending as he has gone to the bother of asking for advice.


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

Leper said:


> Hi Summarisol, I didn't know how you would react to my post. But, reading yours, I'm glad there are people around who'll spend a few bob. I am aware that the website is called Askaboutmoney and it is pretty much filled with people I'm glad I never met. There are exceptions. I'm looking forward to meeting Purple and yourself - hopefully it's in the south of Spain.
> 
> But, life is to be lived without being a slave to your income. There are far more important issues we all meet through life than the balance in our bank accounts e.g health.
> 
> ...


No, he definitely needs to work. He's spent the last 5 years studying for a whole new career. He's in IT now so he will hopefully have some good earning potential in the future and perhaps I could take a step back and be home a bit more. But i guess we are a few years from that.


----------



## RentingD (15 Dec 2019)

On the positives, you have good equity in your house, a good income and that will increase as your husband completes his training.
Your situation is far from dire but I think you need to add up your yearly expenses and then set an amount per month aside for the big bills. If your earnings fluctuate then you'll have to work on having a bit of a buffer.
If you reduced your takeaway/ eating out amount to even 200 and put the 500 off the credit card you could be rid of it by april. Then the family loan get rid of by summer.
It might take longer to change habits but sounds like you are determined. Easy to spend too much but with your income you will quickly recover it if you reduce spending


----------



## Leper (15 Dec 2019)

norahayes said:


> I am possibly one of the people you are glad you never met and while I agree there are more important things eg Health than being a slave to your income, the OP is clearly concerned about his spending as he has gone to the bother of asking for advice.



Don't be putting yourself down Nora. Some of my closest friends are (unlike me) financial wizards. I know Sumarisol is concerned about his/her financial situation (aren't we all?). I'm merely putting forward a case while one's financial situation is important; it is not the be-all and end-all of everything. 

Sumarisol's spouse is studying for a whole new career for the past five years. This in itself appears to be a terrific investment for their future.


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

norahayes said:


> I am possibly one of the people you are glad you never met and while I agree there are more important things eg Health than being a slave to your income, the OP is clearly concerned about his spending as he has gone to the bother of asking for advice.


I'm a she!


----------



## Leper (15 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> I'm a she!



. . . . and a she with a good sense of humour too!


----------



## norahayes (15 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> I'm a she!


my sincerest apologies.  Best of luck with your finances!!


----------



## norahayes (15 Dec 2019)

Leper said:


> Don't be putting yourself down Nora. Some of my closest friends are (unlike me) financial wizards. I know Sumarisol is concerned about his/her financial situation (aren't we all?). I'm merely putting forward a case while one's financial situation is important; it is not the be-all and end-all of everything.
> 
> Sumarisol's spouse is studying for a whole new career for the past five years. This in itself appears to be a terrific investment for their future.


Not putting myself down Leper..........................considered it a positive!!


----------



## Nicetoknow (15 Dec 2019)

I too am on a journey from being crap with money to securing a future in which I and my family are financially secure.... I read the book "your money or your life" and I found it really motivating to stop squandering money on coffees etc. That book completely changed my attitude to money. I agree with some posters that the problem is keeping the motivation going. I find myself slipping into my old 'bad financial behaviour', particularly around Christmas. You are certainly not the only one trying a nd struggling to get a handle on not spending more than they can afford during Christmas! I'm going to start saving in Jan for next year as some posters have suggested - good planning / budgeting seems to be the key.


----------



## goingforgold (15 Dec 2019)

Positives:
- Gorss income recently increased to 138k (although can be less) and will increase in future with husbands salary
- Net worth of 227K (equity in house of 252k and debts of ~25k)

Negatives:
- Struggling on a monthly basis to live off income so need to come up with a plan to address this (which you are now doing through great advice here  )
- No pensions...once you get a grip on finances this is the next thing you need to address...it'll come diircetly out of your pay so is the best and most efficient way (including tax efficiency) of saving for your retirement

So you have a healhy net worth and a healthy and growing income so the only way is up really...there are far, far worse off than you... it's just a case of getting on top of things and going from there really


----------



## Andrew365 (15 Dec 2019)

Am I missing something here, the discretionary spend does not seem overboard. From a lot of the feedback here, I'm assuming people live of porridge and toast sandwiches each month and don't spend a penny that is unaccounted for. We all need to enjoy life to an extent. 

You would not try to a run a marathon without training right? So do not expect to solve your financial issues and change habits in a month. It is going to be a process of trying and failing, but if you keep trying you will get better and learn. I would only use the app for a month, tracking every little penny is probably unsustainable in your situation. 

The underlying issue here is that people aren't taught how to be good with money, so we can't expect them to be good without training. 

My advice would be the following. 

1. Calculate all Bill's / fixed outgoings (childcare etc) for the month and deduct from income. For example you need 2k per month for Bill's. Set aside 2k and pay all bills out of that account. Over the next few months see which Bill's can be reduced but keep the 2k set aside as a fixed total cost. 

2. Immedistely set up a savings account for 100 euro per month and treat it as a bill. This will start to help you learn to save. 

3. Calculate what you need to live on, groceries, lunches, eating out etc. For example 1k, embed this figure in your head and start tracking on an app like Revolut or the one you've mentioned. It is amazing when you know you have overspent one day and that you'll skip the starbucks tomorrow. 

4. Set aside 250 euro as real discretionary spend. I call mine a slush fund and I use it for purchases in the month like a new tshirt. It is amazing how much frivolous spending this has presented. 

5. Debts - just keep paying them and as you get better with month to month spending you can start to tackle. 

My biggest piece of advice is to start simple and keep building and trying. What you should ultimately aim for is something simple like the 50-30-20 rule.

The basic rule is to divide up after-tax income and allocate it to: spending 50% on needs; 30% on wants; and socking away 20% to savings.


----------



## Leper (15 Dec 2019)

Excellent post there by Andrew and simple to follow.  The main thing I like about it is the journey and its consequence i.e. debt free eventually.

The only item I would add is to clear credit card debt asap and afterwards use credit card as little as possible.


----------



## Sumarisol (15 Dec 2019)

Leper said:


> Excellent post there by Andrew and simple to follow.  The main thing I like about it is the journey and its consequence i.e. debt free eventually.
> 
> The only item I would add is to clear credit card debt asap and afterwards use credit card as little as possible.


I've already cut it up!


----------



## goingforgold (15 Dec 2019)




----------



## goingforgold (15 Dec 2019)

Andrew365 said:


> Am I missing something here, the discretionary spend does not seem overboard. From a lot of the feedback here, I'm assuming people live of porridge and toast sandwiches each month and don't spend a penny that is unaccounted for. We all need to enjoy life to an extent.
> 
> You would not try to a run a marathon without training right? So do not expect to solve your financial issues and change habits in a month. It is going to be a process of trying and failing, but if you keep trying you will get better and learn. I would only use the app for a month, tracking every little penny is probably unsustainable in your situation.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more...made that exact point earlier in this thread...OP's lifestyle spend is far from extravagant...issue I guess is that they are currently living beyond their means...


----------



## lledlledlled (15 Dec 2019)

OP, I would recommend reading The Millionaire Next Door. Available on audiobook on Google Play Books also.


----------



## Sumarisol (18 Dec 2019)

username123 said:


> Can you clean up the figures for outgoings? Some are listed per week (child care), some are listed per month (mortgage) and some seem to be in totality (family loan). Similarly, E25 Gym - is this per month per person or what? It's hard to know what are fixed monthly or weekly costs, suggest you edit original post to make it easy to understand. List each expense clearly by amount and by timeframe. How much are you paying per month to your family loan? Is that included in the monthly loan repayment figure?
> 
> *1) Stop Borrowing*
> 
> ...


Hey I have a quick question. So unfortunately it looks like my husband will be finishing up in work in January.  I don't think he will have a problem getting something new, could just take some time. Should we consider moving to interest only on our mortgage for a period? I've done the figures and i think we might be ok but again it depends on the number of days I work in the month.


----------



## Boyd (18 Dec 2019)

Jeez you're gonna be fairly squeezed losing E1800 fixed income per month with E4654.99 fixed outgoings and your variable income. Unless you are pulling in your max almost every month you'll struggle to balance the books.
Going interest only - I am unsure of later implications for credit rating, how the bank then treats your mortgage etc. I would delegate to others who know more here but it sounds like a reasonable short term idea to me.


----------



## RedOnion (18 Dec 2019)

Sumarisol said:


> Should we consider moving to interest only on our mortgage for a period?


Who's mortgage with? AIB?


----------

