# Reporting Tax Evasion



## Unregistered (26 Apr 2005)

I am aware of an number of individuals who are being payed overtime cheque in hand (untaxed income). 

They got this agreement from their place of work due to a shortgage of these type of professionals and they refused to work overtime unless it was untaxed.

To make this matter more sensitive, they work for a govenment body.

I am tax payer myself and I was very annoyed to hear this was going on but is it up to me to report it or should I just mind my own business?


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## extopia (26 Apr 2005)

If it feels like the right thing to do, go ahead and do it.


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## WizardDr (26 Apr 2005)

I would doubt that in the current climate that a government employer would even bother taking the risk. They could be either adjusting the gross to take account of it or two there may be legitimate expenses that they are able to pay tax free. There are many 'expenses' where vouchers are not needed.


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## RainyDay (27 Apr 2005)

Report them - today.


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## WizardDr (28 Apr 2005)

Rainy:

I often think measuring twice is better in this context.


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## ubiquitous (28 Apr 2005)

This sounds like a fairy story. 

The term "cheque in hand (untaxed income)" is an oxymoron.

Any official in a state body that ignores normal procedures in payments to suppliers (most particularly in relation to withholding tax on payments for professional services) would most likely lose their job when (not if) found out.


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## Unregistered (28 Apr 2005)

Any official in a state body that ignores normal procedures in payments to suppliers (most particularly in relation to withholding tax on payments for professional services) would most likely lose their job when (not if) found out.


I am 100% sure that what they are doing is totally illegal. I have reported them to the revenue and I hope they are crucified for it.

Nothing justifies Tax evasion.


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## WizardDr (29 Apr 2005)

If I were to pay a chap '€100' into his hand, and then gross up the amount for payroll purposes ..how would you know? How can you be 100% certain of tax evasion? 

It would be interesting if you turn out to be wrong that the same be applied to you.


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## extopia (29 Apr 2005)

Why would an employer gross up wages behind the employee's back? Where would the advantage be to the employer?


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## ubiquitous (29 Apr 2005)

This happens all the time - the construction industry is noted for it, and it has even been known to happen across the water in Premiership soccer clubs. What happens is that employees base their wage/salary expectations on a net basis, (eg 'I want €X into my hand every week). The employer agrees to pay this net figure, but in order to comply with the law, must then gross up the pay figure to account for the paye/prsi that would have been deducted had the pay deal been calculated on a gross basis. Employers Prsi is calculated on the grossed-up figure. This paye/prsi is then paid to the Revenue. 

This is a bad business option for employers as they are exposed to a ripoff if employees are sufficiently smart to manipulate their tax credits to suit themselves, but otherwise there is no illegality involved once the above procedure is followed by the employer and the full paye/prsi is remitted to the Revenue.


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## ajapale (29 Apr 2005)

Extopia,

"Grossing up" commonly occurrs where there was a (historical) union agreement to pay certain expenses tax free. Subsequently Revenue have determined that the payment (or a proportion of it) is liable for tax. The company in order to comply with the original union agreement will agree to "gross up" the payment. This "grossing up" intorduces considerable complication into the payroll process.

ajapale


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## ClubMan (29 Apr 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> it has even been known to happen across the water in Premiership soccer clubs.



I have strong suspicions that it also happens with professional soccer players plying their trade here albeit on a smaller scale!


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## Ham Slicer (29 Apr 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I have strong suspicions that it also happens with professional soccer players plying their trade here albeit on a smaller scale!



It does.  In fact I would be fairly sure that most players don't have their net salaries grossed up correctly.

Not to mention all the guys coaching at GAA/soccer clubs around the country and paid well for it.


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## ClubMan (29 Apr 2005)

Ham Slicer said:
			
		

> It does. In fact I would be fairly sure that most players don't have their net salaries grossed up correctly.



The accounts and tax dealings of most _eircom League_ clubs is a can of worms just waiting to be opened. Most clubs are run on a basis that is at best unviable and at worst trading recklessly or fraudulently. The [broken link removed] is just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid.


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## stuart (29 Apr 2005)

Not to mention all the accusations about the biggest club in the league at the moment and their inability to pay any tax
(I not going to name as it is rumour AFAIK)

The Big Club would not go for that carry on

Are you going to Drogheda?


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## RainyDay (29 Apr 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> This happens all the time - the construction industry is noted for it, and it has even been known to happen across the water in Premiership soccer clubs. What happens is that employees base their wage/salary expectations on a net basis, (eg 'I want €X into my hand every week). The employer agrees to pay this net figure, but in order to comply with the law, must then gross up the pay figure to account for the paye/prsi that would have been deducted had the pay deal been calculated on a gross basis. Employers Prsi is calculated on the grossed-up figure. This paye/prsi is then paid to the Revenue.


I guess this wouldn't really be behind the employee's back, as the employee would get visibility to this on the payslip.


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## WizardDr (30 Apr 2005)

Bear in mind we were talking about a 'state employer'. Grossing up would be included in pay slip and P60. The point I was making is that people shouting about tax evasion should be sure of their facts.

The case we were given, would be as the legal boys say, not even be 'prima facie'. Although knowing the way IFRSRA pile in on stupid matters ..maybe the Revenue do the same.


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## eagle9324 (24 Feb 2006)

I'm a bit naive about this but..If some knew of a business involved in widespread TAX evasion... WHO do you report them to? cAN IT BE DONE ONLINE?


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## Danmo (24 Feb 2006)

I am aware of a Bank (one of big four) that pays certain casual staff cash in hand. I was appalled at this. I don't think I would bother reporting it though.....


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## ClubMan (24 Feb 2006)

Danmo said:
			
		

> I was appalled at this. I don't think I would bother reporting it though.....


Whyever not if you are appalled?


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## MoneyTalks (24 Feb 2006)

Ah, lads. Get real:
1. Report them.
2. Grossing up "behind their back" is crazy ... we use payslips in this counrty, so if you get it in your wages cheque, it's not "cheque in hand" is it?
3. grossing up is handled by most payroll packages nowadays, so it's not THAT complicated.
4. Who's dr Wizard protecting? Make the call. You don't have to give your name. I pay my tax. You pay your tax. THEY should pay their tax. NOBODY is outside the system. Go for it. Then get a peaceful night's sleep.


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## DrMoriarty (24 Feb 2006)

This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, I can't believe the apologist/'careful now' line being advocated by some above. I work 'for the government', am PAYE'd out of it, have to apply for written permission from my employer to even take on outside paid work of any kind, and then pay 42% tax on every cent of it. 'Grossing up' doesn't enter into it...

The OP has made clear that these are _not_ 'colleagues' —
_


			
				unregistered said:
			
		


They got this agreement from their place of work [...] they refused to work overtime unless it was untaxed [...] they work for a govenment body.
		
Click to expand...

_I'm with RainyDay. Report the shaggers, *and* their employer, immediately!


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## Danmo (27 Feb 2006)

Self preservation. Only a handful of people know about this arrangement.


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## DonKing (27 Feb 2006)

I know of someone who played in League of Ireland and the Irish League up North and across the water throughout the Ninties. He got a basic wage/Salary which was taxed correctly(as far as he was aware!) but all appearance/performance bonus's were paid directly into the hand from cash received at the gates. The smaller clubs and the minor players mainly operate on a cash only basis (ie under the table - no tax paid)


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## DrMoriarty (27 Feb 2006)

Now _there's_ an investigative 'scoop' for any enterprising sports hack who never wants to lunch in this town (oops! country) again...


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## ClubMan (27 Feb 2006)

I think the tax "issues" of most, if not all, _eircom League _clubs are well known to the dogs in the street (or at least those on the terraces and in the stands) but are conveniently ignored by many stakeholders. _Revenue _are another matter though and may not treat all clubs as leniently as they did _Rovers_ last year when, as part of the examinership settlement, they accepted just €40,000 (or 2.67%) as sufficient to discharge the €1,500,000 in outstanding tax liabilities that they owed. Now that's what I call a real rip-off of the average tax compliant business/citizen!


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