# behind on rent/lease expired



## sueblane (23 Feb 2009)

We have a farm rental that we rent out on a 6 month lease. It started in July '08 and ended Jan.31, 09. The tenants paid all the rent (we actually knocked off the amount of rent each month if they did "fix it up" work on the house) up until the last month of the lease. (January). We live out of the country right now and won't be going home until end of March. Needless to say, we did not re-new the lease in Feb. cause January rent was not paid..(we would have renewed had the rent for Jan. been paid)....well, it's almost the end of Feb and nothing has been paid yet...(they had stated they wanted to continue renting)....we are considering doing a "pay rent or quit" eviction but my question is are we going to be able to get the rent for Feb and probably March if we do this? Or will January be the only month we can get back rent for if the lease was not renewed?


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

So they're one month behind and you're planning to kick them out?


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## murphaph (24 Feb 2009)

Is this a commercial or residential lease? In either case, you can't (unfortunately) just evict someone yourself without exposing yourself to legal sanction. You have to jump through legal hoops (€€ for solicitors) to get your own property back. Why can't people just pay their bloody rent or get off land/property that doesn't belong to them?!


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

murphaph said:


> Is this a commercial or residential lease? In either case, you can't (unfortunately) just evict someone yourself without exposing yourself to legal sanction. You have to jump through legal hoops (€€ for solicitors) to get your own property back. Why can't people just pay their bloody rent or get off land/property that doesn't belong to them?!


 

I hope the banks dont take the same view if you ever fall behind with your mortage.


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## mercman (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> I hope the banks dont take the same view if you ever fall behind with your mortage.



This is not an ownership issue. The persons contracted to rent the land and have ceased to continue paying the rent. In essence I would call this squatting. They should be moved on or else cough up.


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

They are one month behind.That doesnt qualify as squatting,that qualifies as oversight.
Has the OP contacted  them to see if ther has been a problem or is she quite happy to go shouting "eviction" like a victorian rack-renter?


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## mercman (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> They are one month behind.



Eh, nearly two months as we are near the end of February. Rent is normally paid in advance not arrears.


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

Why should rent be paid in advance?
Do you pay your mortage in advance?


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## Cayne (24 Feb 2009)

Rent is always paid in advance.


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## mercman (24 Feb 2009)

Rent is always paid in advance. It's a fact of life, simple as that. No mortgages are not paid in advance but if not paid places the ownership in jeopardy.


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

So if you fell behind one month with your mortage payments would you expect the bank to immediatly reposses your house?
No,you'd like some time to sort it out.
if its a tenant falling behind certain people cant wait to try and evict them.
Double standards really.


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## mercman (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> Double standards really.



It's pretty obvious you don't have a grip on renting property. You have to realise that being a tenant is very different from being a landlord.


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

mercman said:


> It's pretty obvious you don't have a grip on renting property. You have to realise that being a tenant is very different from being a landlord.


 
Oh yeah,landlords are driven by the desire to make money and tenants are driven by the desire to have somewhere to sleep.


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## murphaph (24 Feb 2009)

mercman said:


> It's pretty obvious you don't have a grip on renting property. You have to realise that being a tenant is very different from being a landlord.


Indeed and being a tenant is also very different from being a mortgage holder. Tenants have the most rights and fewest responsibilities of anybody in this area in this country owing to successive decades of court judgements going against landlords due to the overhang of british rule. A tenant defaults on his rent, pretty much the worst thing that will happen is that he will be evicted from property he has no stake in. A landlord whose tenant defaults may end up in default with his bank and lose a property in which he may have built up significant equity, as is the case for a homeowner who defaults on a mortgage. Comparing a tenant to people who have such equity to lose is obviously ridiculous.


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## murphaph (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> Oh yeah,landlords are driven by the desire to make money and tenants are driven by the desire to have somewhere to sleep.


A landlord is running a business. You wouldn't expect to walk into a SPAR and help yourself to their stock so why would you expect a landlord to offer a free roof over your head whilst risking losing their own due to your failure to pay what was agreed in the lease? Very strange.


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## woods (24 Feb 2009)

I think that it is the past experience of being a landlord that has people feeling this way. You can not blame them. There are more bad tenants than bad landlords and the law is set up to support the tenants.


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## Wexfordguy (24 Feb 2009)

murphaph said:


> A landlord is running a business. You wouldn't expect to walk into a SPAR and help yourself to their stock so why would you expect a landlord to offer a free roof over your head whilst risking losing their own due to your failure to pay what was agreed in the lease? Very strange.


 
SPAR dont ask you for a deposit and the price of the goods up front do they?
I presume the OP still has a deposit?


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## mercman (24 Feb 2009)

A deposit on agricultural land is not the norm. No SPAR do not ask for a deposit. They just expect payment in full before you walk out of the shop with the goods, unless you are a good shoplifter.


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## murphaph (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> SPAR dont ask you for a deposit and the price of the goods up front do they?


I've never tried taking goods from a SPAR and paying later. They DO ask for the full price of the goods up front. What SPAR do you shop in????? SPAR also DO ask you for a deposit on items where you are not getting full ownership of the item, for example FloGas bottles when you don't have an empty to exchange with them. With a house, you are also not getting full ownership so a deposit is required. Would you give someone full posession of an asset worth hundreds of thousands of euro with absolutely no security? I find it very hard to believe you would. By the way, if you think a month's deposit and a month's rent up front is extreme, try renting in say Munich, a place with similar high rent costs. Three months rent as deposit is the norm as is asking for another 3 months rent up front. That'll get you an unfurnished place by the way-get your own kitchen while you're at it. Renting in Ireland is a walk in the park compared to many places on the continent.


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## S.L.F (24 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> So they're one month behind and you're planning to kick them out?


 
It is now 2 months and if it was me they would have been out sooner.



Wexfordguy said:


> I hope the banks dont take the same view if you ever fall behind with your mortage.


 
OT what does a mortgage got to do with renting property



Wexfordguy said:


> They are one month behind.That doesnt qualify as squatting,that qualifies as oversight.?


 
They are 2 months behind as I said, if someone decides to stay on my property after the lease expires they become squatters!

Have you ever forgotten to pay your rent, oversight my foot.



Wexfordguy said:


> Has the OP contacted them to see if ther has been a problem or is she quite happy to go shouting "eviction" like a victorian rack-renter?


 
Speaking for myself I'd be happy to turf someone out who has not *bothered* to pay me my money.



Wexfordguy said:


> Why should rent be paid in advance?
> Do you pay your mortage in advance?


 
Why pay rent in advance because that's the way it is done and yes people pay mortgages in advance.



Wexfordguy said:


> So if you fell behind one month with your mortage payments would you expect the bank to immediatly reposses your house?
> No,you'd like some time to sort it out.
> if its a tenant falling behind certain people cant wait to try and evict them.
> Double standards really.


 
Mortgages and rents are not the same.

If I cut a deal with someone to rent my property I expect them to live up to their end of things, *that means paying their rent.*

You seem to think it's ok for people to break a deal, how would you feel if your boss decided not to bother paying your wages.

This is exactly the same



Wexfordguy said:


> Oh yeah,landlords are driven by the desire to make money and tenants are driven by the desire to have somewhere to sleep.


 
Landlords want to make money we also want to have a roof over our heads and it would be nice if certain shiftless non paying tenants would keep to their end of the bargain and pay their way so landlords don't end up on the street. 



Wexfordguy said:


> SPAR dont ask you for a deposit and the price of the goods up front do they?
> I presume the OP still has a deposit?


 
As a previous poster stated SPAR get deposits for gas cannisters and won't let you leave without paying for goods.


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## Bronte (25 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> They are one month behind.That doesnt qualify as squatting,that qualifies as oversight.
> Has the OP contacted them to see if ther has been a problem or is she quite happy to go shouting "eviction" like a victorian rack-renter?


  Could you please tell us what do you think the landlord should do in the case outlined by the OP above?  What would you do?


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## mercman (25 Feb 2009)

By the sounds of it, he would simply give them the asset as a present, only after he wrapped it in paper and ribbons he borrowed from his local SPAR.


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## Mommah (25 Feb 2009)

Wexford guy obviously has had bad experiences with landlords and those greedy b @st(*)s looking for his money every.single.month.. His arguments on this and other threads are very similiar to those put forward on a daily basis by Frank Gallagher in Shameless. He should come over here to France and join the communist party...they are gagging for new members.

At the end of the day he is distracting from the very important OP.
I have evicted 3 tenants in the past.
For anti-social behaviour. They were tormenting the tenant next door...not the landlord. I was still getting my rent and they kept the place well.
I followed the guidelines on the prtb website to good effect.
I don't know if the fact it is agricultural land makes any difference.
I imagine its easier to evict them from the land than the house.
There is a support group called http://www.ipoa.ie/ Irish property owners association. I keep meaning to join up. Maybe if you join up, you can get accurate advice. Because the key thing is following the protocol. You'd get it alot cheaper from the prtb or this crowd than a solicitor.

I would right a letter straight away though advising them that they are putting their tenancy at risk by failing to pay their rent and that you are keen to discuss with them how to avoid this happening in the future and how to tackle the arrears.

Good luck. I would be in deep do-do if this happened to me.


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## S.L.F (26 Feb 2009)

Mommah said:


> There is a support group called http://www.ipoa.ie/ Irish property owners association.


 
Thanks for the link


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## Bronte (26 Feb 2009)

error in posting


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## Bronte (26 Feb 2009)

Bronte said:


> Could you please tell us what do you think the landlord should do in the case outlined by the OP above? What would you do?


 Well Wexfordguy?


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## mercman (26 Feb 2009)

Bronte said:


> Well Wexfordguy?



Hang on -- he's at the SPAR.


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## Wexfordguy (26 Feb 2009)

Bronte said:


> Well Wexfordguy?


 
Contact the tenents and ask them what the situation is.


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## Cayne (26 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> Contact the tenents and ask them what the situation is.


 
And they tell you what you already know; 'we 're 2 months behind on the rent'

What do you do then?


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## murphaph (26 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> Contact the tenents and ask them what the situation is.


And when they say "we didn't pay the rent because we have no money"?


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## S.L.F (26 Feb 2009)

murphaph said:


> And when they say "we didn't pay the rent because we have no money"?


 
Well the OP did say



sueblane said:


> they had stated they wanted to continue renting


 
But I think if asked the OP'd say



sueblane said:


> they had stated they wanted to continue squatting


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## Bronte (27 Feb 2009)

Wexfordguy said:


> Contact the tenents and ask them what the situation is.


 
I'm still waiting for your answer, you've decided to paint all us landlords as basically scum on this and other threads, so I'd like you to tell us what you would do.  Until you do you should not pontificate against ALL landlords.


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## murphaph (27 Feb 2009)

Bronte said:


> I'm still waiting for your answer, you've decided to paint all us landlords as basically scum on this and other threads, so I'd like you to tell us what you would do.  Until you do you should not pontificate against ALL landlords.


Agreed. Wexfordguy has been pontificating against all of us but appears to have no answer as to what he would do in the same situation? WG seems to think we're all landed gentry with estates going back generations with no liabilities save for the gamekeeper!


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## sam h (27 Feb 2009)

> WG seems to think we're all landed gentry with estates going back generations with no liabilities save for the gamekeeper!


 
Can anyone recommend a good gamekeeper?....I think ones current one is poaching the pheasants.

WG - most landlords are normal PAYE workers who have opted to go this route to provide a pension for themselves.  If someone doesn't pay their rent, mortgages go unpaid & LL's risk losing their investment....simple as.  Most landlords offer decent/good accomadation.  Obviously there are some terrible landlords....just as there are terrible tenants.  But on the whole, both groups are made up of decent people.


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## S.L.F (27 Feb 2009)

sam h said:


> Can anyone recommend a good gamekeeper?....I think ones current one is poaching the pheasants.
> 
> WG - most landlords are normal PAYE workers who have opted to go this route to provide a pension for themselves. If someone doesn't pay their rent, mortgages go unpaid & LL's risk losing their investment....simple as. Most landlords offer decent/good accomadation. Obviously there are some terrible landlords....just as there are terrible tenants. But on the whole, both groups are made up of decent people.


 
Speaking for myself looking out over my vast estate at the swans flying past, and having my special askaboutmoney valet type for me.

I can say there are many bad landlords and tenants out there but the vast majority are good.

Now I have to go to the airport to get my oriental shopping.

"hurry up, James, I think I'll take the Rolls tonight"...

"eh what! Which one? I think the blue one for a change"


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