# Cant sell a 2 bed Apartment in Dublin 8 (near Usher's Island/Guinness's)



## tobar123 (2 Jan 2009)

Myself and my wife have lived in a 2 bed Apartment in Dublin 8 (near Usher's Island/Guinness's), and have moved out into a house in the suburbs, with the intention of selling the Apartment. 

We have reduced the price from €340k to now €298k, which we thought would certainly get it moving, but still no phonecall. 

Can anybody give us any advise as to what we could do to sell on our previous home? 

Thanks.


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## mercman (2 Jan 2009)

I'd say that you would need to take a minimum of a third off the original asking price to get people interested and may have to drop further to secure a sale. The market is in freefall at present.


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## z101 (2 Jan 2009)

you need to drop the price by at least another 60k just to stimulate some viewings, then hopefully you will get a couple of people who may go head to head. The market is what someone will pay not percentage drops talked on websites or TV. Alot of people are mssing this point. It works different on the way down than the way up.


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## Guest116 (2 Jan 2009)

Why 60k? Why not 160 or just 10?


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## Bob_tg (2 Jan 2009)

mercman said:


> I'd say that you would need to take a minimum of a third off the original asking price


 
... or if that's not low enough, then 10-15% below the lowest adverstised price in a similar or competing area.  

One question that has always puzzled me is why do home-sellers generally price at the high end?  Surely it makes sense to advertise below your expected (or probable) rate in order to get some footfall through your door that you can then negotiate with.

Don't worry - you don't have to stick to your advertised price!!



aristotle25 said:


> Why 60k? Why not 160 or just 10?


 
I'd say as low as possible, but not too low - not ridiculously low which would stimulate either too many viewings from the wrong target market or so low that you would lose credibility in the negotiation process. It's hard to know if 60/70/80k or 10/20/30% is correct. Trial and error and careful analysis might work.


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## queenlex (2 Jan 2009)

Bob_tg said:


> I'd say as low as possible, but not too low - not ridiculously low which would stimulate either too many viewings from the *wrong target market* or so low that you would lose credibility in the negotiation process. It's hard to know if 60/70/80k or 10/20/30% is correct. Trial and error and careful analysis might work.


 
Why do you say wrong target market surely they dont care who they sell it to??  If they were renting you'd have a point.  I reckon its probably a lot harder to sell an apartment these days so you'd definitely need to knock a big chunk off 298K.  Thats a lot for a 2 bed in my opinion...anywhere.  Sellers in general are unrealistic I think in what they're looking for especially with the state of the economy these days people (buyers) mightnt want to overstretch themselves the way they have in the last few years??


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## Robin Banks (4 Jan 2009)

Reduce your asking price by €20k a month until you get some interest.

When your asking price is low enough to attract some interest from the market, then you know you are in the ballpark. You are attempting to sell into a market that is both oversupplied and overpriced, those are the reasons why prices are declining. They will continue to decline until those large imbalances are rectified, a process which will take several (more) years imo. The Irish property market is falling all the time (has been for the last 20 months in a row according to the available information) so the sooner you drop your asking price to where the market is at - the less money you will lose by failing to sell in a market that is rather predictably crashing, after a decade of supernormal gains.

You can chase the market all the way to the bottom if you like by continually reducing your asking price to a point which is always above the market. You need to get _below_ the market to make a sale.


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## Bob_tg (4 Jan 2009)

queenlex said:


> Why do you say wrong target market


 
I mean that there is a target market of people who want to buy in lower price segments, e.g. €150k-€174k; €175k-€199k, etc. 

If your target price (price you will settle at) is around €260k, and you advertise the price at €160k, then you could have too many viewers in the €150k-€174k bracket. You have to price low enough to generate interest, but not too low so that you can't negotiate up to your target price.



queenlex said:


> surely they dont care who they sell it to??


 
I am merely suggesting negotiating tactics to acheive a desirable financial outcome - I was not making a social statement.

Here's some further discussion on "target market" from Wikipedia:

_Defining a target market requires __market segmentation__, the process of pulling apart the entire market as a whole and separating it into manageable, disparate units based on demographics._
_The market segmentation process includes: 1. Determining the characteristics of segments in the target market. Then separating these segments in the market based on these characteristics. 2. Checking to see whether any of this market segments are large enough to support the organization's product. If not, the organization must return to step one (or review its product to see if it's viable). 3. Once a target market is chosen, the organization can develop its marketing strategy to target this market._
_Defining a target market requires __market segmentation__, the process of pulling apart the entire market as a whole and separating it into manageable, disparate units based on demographics._
_The market segmentation process includes: 1. Determining the characteristics of segments in the target market. Then separating these segments in the market based on these characteristics. 2. Checking to see whether any of this market segments are large enough to support the organization's product. If not, the organization must return to step one (or review its product to see if it's viable). 3. Once a target market is chosen, the organization can develop its marketing strategy to target this market._


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## Senna (4 Jan 2009)

Bob_tg said:


> can't negotiate up to your target price.



I think you need a reality check, negotiate up?? what market are you looking at?

Once you drop the price you will never get more than that, nobody will even pay asking, so expect offers of -10% if your price is some way realistic and -25% if the price is unrealistic.
If the OP has had no offers i'd say their price is in another bracket altogether, madness.  Drop your price till it gets offers.  
But unlike someones advice above, dont drop your price by a set amount every month, anyone who is looking will pay close attension to the market and see this pattern.  Why would they put an offer in this month is next month will be -10/20/30k.
I cant advice a price as i dont know the area.


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## charliemacck (5 Jan 2009)

A quick look on daft.ie shows that 2-bed apartments on Ussher's Island are going for €230,000:

http://www.daft.ie/1422084

Therefore, you will have to price accordingly. I'm familiar with the area and it is not very salubrious.


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## Guest116 (5 Jan 2009)

charliemacck said:


> A quick look on daft.ie shows that 2-bed apartments on Ussher's Island are going for €230,000:
> 
> http://www.daft.ie/1422084
> 
> Therefore, you will have to price accordingly. I'm familiar with the area and it is not very salubrious.


 
That one doesnt have a car space. Other 2 beds in the area are priced at 300+


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## Raskolnikov (5 Jan 2009)

Do you need to sell this apartment? Can you not rent the apartment out while you're trying to sell it? Would rent even cover the mortgage?

This is perhaps the worst time to be selling a property in 20 years. Mortgage drawdowns are at 1987 levels. It does not look like we're going to see a rapid turnaround this year. 

If it's not already rented out, I would put it up for letting.


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## Bob_tg (5 Jan 2009)

Senna said:


> I think you need a reality check, negotiate up?? what market are you looking at?
> 
> Once you drop the price you will never get more than that, nobody will even pay asking, so expect offers of -10% if your price is some way realistic and -25% if the price is unrealistic.


 
If the target is _realistic_, then the advertised price should be at a point low enough to generate interest.  Per the other post, if the lowest price in the area is €230k, let's set a target of, say, €200k (now, we have already dropped our price).  Then advertise for €180k, generate some interest at that level and then you may have a few buyers interested - and you may be able to generate a bit of competition among them.  If you advertise at the high end, then you risk no viewers - the very problem that the OP is having.  Even in a declining market, you can still always negoatiate.  The trick is to set a realistic target and a very low advertised price in the first place.  I'm not sure the OP's target nor advertised prices are realistic.


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## Hans (5 Jan 2009)

I think you have missed the boat in trying to sell your apartment at this stage. Last Summer I put in an offer for 300K (they looking for 339K) for an apartment in Traders W. Ushers Island for 2 bed apartment (with parking space) overlooking liffey for my son and it was turned down now I'm so glad as the only reason I was buying there it was the cheapest area near town but now I'm so glad I didn't get it soon I'll be able to afford nicer place in nicer area for same price I think anyone would be foolish to buy until at least the end of this year until we see what way the housing market is going (wont be going up for some time yet). The seller of apartment came back to me in the mean time and asked if I was interested neeedless to say I said 'no thank you'.


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## z103 (5 Jan 2009)

> generate some interest at that level and then you may have a few buyers interested - and you may be able to generate a bit of competition among them.


Maybe before 2006 that would have worked. These days there are tens of thousands of other empty apartments to choose from. If I was a buyer, I would even return the call to this proposition.


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## Flax (5 Jan 2009)

I know the area pretty well, and there's no way I'd pay 300k for a two bed apartment there. 

I'd consider 200k.


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## 23rdbuchan (5 Jan 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> That one doesnt have a car space. Other 2 beds in the area are priced at 300+



I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anyone looking to sell then.

The ONLY way you will stand any chance of even getting viewings on an apartment like this is to look on DAFT and myhome.  Find the CHEAPEST property of similar size and number of rooms, and find the BEST property of the similar size and number of rooms.

Now, make your property better than the best by redecorating, clearing out, and getting a professional property photographer in.  Then, set your asking price 10% cheaper than the cheapest, no matter how many car parking spaces your has compared to the other, or what floor yours is on compared to the other etc.

Yours needs to be the cheapest, and the best.


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## Guest116 (5 Jan 2009)

23rdbuchan said:


> I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anyone looking to sell then.
> 
> The ONLY way you will stand any chance of even getting viewings on an apartment like this is to look on DAFT and myhome. Find the CHEAPEST property of similar size and number of rooms, and find the BEST property of the similar size and number of rooms.
> 
> ...


 
If you are advising someone that a car space has no value then you are wrong.


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## parkmagic (5 Jan 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> If you are advising someone that a car space has no value then you are wrong.


 
If you read the whole of the guys responce its clear that he is giving very good advice


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## sparkeee (5 Jan 2009)

reduce the cost to 200 k,i bet it will sell.


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## buyingabroad (5 Jan 2009)

sparkeee said:


> reduce the cost to 200 k,i bet it will sell.



I am sure OP would love to reduce the cost to 200k.....


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2009)

They may not love it but they are looking for advice on how to shift it and reducing the price is an obvious thing to look at.


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## parkmagic (5 Jan 2009)

sparkeee said:


> reduce the cost to 200 k,i bet it will sell.


 
thats a morgage of about E750 a month with the need for a 40 grand deposit Im not so sure it would sell for that even that price.


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## foghorn (5 Jan 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> If you are advising someone that a car space has no value then you are wrong.


 
Are you seriously suggesting that a car parking space in a dodgy area of Dublin in the current climate is worth at least 70 grand?


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## Bronte (6 Jan 2009)

foghorn said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that a car parking space in a dodgy area of Dublin in the current climate is worth at least 70 grand?


  I was wondering that myself.  OP you have to check out the price of similar apartments and price accordingly.  Even better would be if you know the actual sale price rather than the asking price.  Have you asked your auctioneer for a realistic valuation.


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## werner (6 Jan 2009)

Senna said:


> I think you need a reality check, negotiate up?? what market are you looking at?
> 
> Once you drop the price you will never get more than that, nobody will even pay asking, so expect offers of -10% if your price is some way realistic and -25% if the price is unrealistic.
> If the OP has had no offers i'd say their price is in another bracket altogether, madness. Drop your price till it gets offers.
> ...


 
I priced a property I sold in the last month at a realistic price for a sale, 10% below the going rate for the area, after 6 viewings and couples going head to head I eventually sold it with an increase of 9% above my original advertised price

Know your market!


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## moneygrower (6 Jan 2009)

sold a one bed in that area for €240k in May. That was a long time ago in terms of sentiment. You will have to have your apartment looking the best and priced well below the competition to get a bite. Remember 2 bed houses in Crumlin and Cabra are easy to get now at €300k so think about your competition.
Under no circumstances should you expect to negotiate up from your asking!!


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## Brava (7 Jan 2009)

I agree that your asking is way too high. I sold a 2 bed (no parking) in the area for €270k - this time last year. It was just off the South Quays, so a little lower than those on the Quays, but I'd guess your asking needs to drop to €250k at least (and if it's not in good nick, do a quick paint and tidy - you may not get the value of it back, but it will help to make the sale for you)

HTH

Brava


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## geld (14 Jan 2009)

That is teeny tiny for a 2 bed.  My 2-bed (+1 parking space) is 82 sq m and would be valued now at approx. 280 000 euro max, and even then would only sell for about 250-260 000 max, if I were to try to sell it (not that I am planning to).  It is in a different part of Dublin, but the prices here have been on par with Dublin 8 all along, so would be a relatively good guage of what you could expect.


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## Senna (15 Jan 2009)

werner said:


> I priced a property I sold in the last month at a realistic price for a sale, 10% below the going rate for the area, after 6 viewings and couples going head to head I eventually sold it with an increase of 9% above my original advertised price
> 
> *Know* your market!



OK, so did you* know* that by pricing it at 10% below 'going rate' (is that different to advertised rate?) that you would get a bidding war going and did you *know* you would finally get above your advertised price? or was it just great luck? I *know* which one it is.

Either way, to say to someone that you can negotiate up from your advertised price is probably the stupidest thing i've ever read.  You may have been lucky (assuming i believe you) but is this (the discussion i was replying to) really good advice to be giving seller, pick a realistic price, if you get it great, if you get close, you probably didn't do too bad, but dont expect more than the price you set.


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## Bronte (15 Jan 2009)

Senna said:


> OK, so did you* know* that by pricing it at 10% below 'going rate' (is that different to advertised rate?) that you would get a bidding war going and did you *know* you would finally get above your advertised price? or was it just great luck? I *know* which one it is.
> 
> Either way, to say to someone that you can negotiate up from your advertised price is probably the stupidest thing i've ever read. You may have been lucky (assuming i believe you) but is this (the discussion i was replying to) really good advice to be giving seller, pick a realistic price, if you get it great, if you get close, you probably didn't do too bad, but dont expect more than the price you set.


 
A bidding war is a seller's paradise and a purchaser's nightmare.  In these situations asking price is meaningless.


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## daithi28 (15 Jan 2009)

A property is worth as much as somebody is willing to pay. If there are no people coming a-knockin on the door it's becasue it's for sale for beyond what a person has decided is a reasonable price to pay.

Remove the blinkers and stop reminiscing about how it was in 2007. It's 2009, there is a recession on and it's only in it's infancy.

If you price your property below its market value and undercut other sellers in the area, as others have said, it will get punters through the door and more than likely initiate a bidding-war between purchasers up to their maximum price they are willing to pay. The property will then sell for it's true value.

End of rant....


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## Anna Lee (15 Jan 2009)

Well said daithi28.  I just went sale agreed for 40% below peak price for a 2 bed with parking in d8 (230). I did the obvious thing of presenting it well for sale as well. Pricing is the main facto, lower your price, market forces etc I can't stress how important pricing is, buyers now are only looking at realistically priced places, there are so many vendors who are still pricing at 2006 levels, with maybe a 10% reduction, it takes more of a reduction than this, get real!


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## share dealer (17 Jan 2009)

Sell it by auction with a reserve of about 225k, and hope for the best, remember the longer you leave it in the current climate, the price will continue to drop.


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## Lord Snooty (18 Jan 2009)

Your looking at a price of well below 200k at this stage. I really believe that. I know the area very well.You don't sound like you are being realistic.If you want rid of it then keep lowering the price. You bought in to a bubble and may have left it too late. 
How much did you pay for it as a matter of interest?
To all of those talking about bidding wars. What country are you living in? There ain't going to be any bidding wars for apartments in this country.


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## twofor1 (18 Jan 2009)

Get a stiff drink and look at this.

[broken link removed]


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## noelf (18 Jan 2009)

Auction with a reserve. 
Get a tennent in with a longer than 1 year contract and
try and get the return up to over 4% and sell as a Rental Investment property.
Speak to the County Council about the RAS Scheme for long term rental option.
Dont listen to dooms day senarios
But good luck.
Sorry


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