# learning about contents of a will



## summersun (5 Jun 2010)

my partner has got the strong impression that two of his siblings have pretty much dictated the last will of their very elderly parent,there are hints to soften him up, how can my partner actually learn the contents of the will when the parent passes,is the solicitor obligated to inform my partner or could my partner end up in the dark, I will be recommending a challenge so that a lifetime of unhealthy favouritism could be ended with a final gesture of equality among these three

any views appreciated


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## mf1 (5 Jun 2010)

Whoa there!

What you are alleging is unfair influence and duress by two siblings on an elderly parent. Perhaps it is for the elderly parent alone to decide who gets what and indeed who gets nothing?

"I will be recommending a challenge so that a lifetime of unhealthy favouritism could be ended with a final gesture of equality among these three"

This makes me nervous. It sounds like the will may, ultimately, well reflect a life time reality. Step aside and let your partner make their own decision if and when. And, if they were never favoured in life, it is unlikely they will be favoured, on death, in the will. 

The will, once probated, will be available for purchase to anyone, including your partner,  to see. It would be preferable if someone, who expected to be a beneficiary, and is not a beneficiary, was told early on - not by the solicitor but by the executor. But a child has no actual entitlement to benefit from a parent. That is key and is often not understood. 

mf


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## ACA (5 Jun 2010)

> But a child has no actual entitlement to benefit from a parent. That is key and is often not understood.



Well said mf1. My Mum looked after both parents for almost 15 years, and the past 6 for her father, with minimal input from her 3 brothers, who are spread over the globe. One brother adores my Mum and feels that as she's been at their beck & call, putting their care ahead of herself, that she should be sole beneficiary to any estate. The other two brothers are ganging up on my Mum - DEMANDING to see the will and using everything they can think of to 'guilt' her into asking their father to change his will. 

She didn't take on looking after them with dollar signs in her eyes - she did it because she loves them. It really sickens me that despite the 2 brothers having homes of their own, and being at almost retirement age themselves, they feel that they deserve a share of my grandad's estate. 

They have both treated him very shabbily since my grandmother died and wouldn't dream of giving him anything - a meal out, Christmas or Birthday present for instance! 

It feels like they're just waiting for him to die so that they swoop like vultures. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the solicitors office when the day comes, just to see the shock on their self-centred money hungry faces!!


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## nuac (5 Jun 2010)

I have an iron rule in family dispute re wills property etc.    If asked to attend a meeting to sort out matters I will only do so if all partners spouses and significant others are excluded.

This is based on long experience of such situations.   Siblings will often come to terms between themselves.   Bringing partners etc into the meeting often prevents or breaks up a settlement.

I would advise this poster to stay out of his/her partners family affairs.


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## mtk (5 Jun 2010)

When i read this thread I am so glad i was the only off spring


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## Yorrick (8 Jun 2010)

The only off spring you are aware of!!!


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## Slim (8 Jun 2010)

OP - If your partner is completely excluded from the will, he will become aware of that when not invited by solicitor to reading. Until his parent's death, the will will remain sealed unless it is a home made job, in which case it may be in the parent's home or with a sibling(!) for safekeeping. After that, if one of his siblings does not provide him with a copy, he will have to apply for a copy from the Probate Office, that could be many months down the line.


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## purpeller (8 Jun 2010)

Slim said:


> OP - If your partner is completely excluded from the will, he will become aware of that when not invited by solicitor to reading.



I actually thought that the "reading of the will" was something only done on tv!  Both my grandparents have died in the last couple of years and no reading took place.  The solicitor and executor got on with it, they each had a copy of the will, as well as the copy in my grandparents' house.


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## mf1 (8 Jun 2010)

"OP - If your partner is completely excluded from the will, he will become aware of that when not invited by solicitor to reading."

This only happens in the movies! Not in real life. 

In the vast majority of cases, the executor will know that he/she has been appointed by the deceased. There may be a copy of the will in the house and the original is very likely with the solicitor. The executor will contact the solicitor and take it from there. 

In the vast majority of cases, the off spring will work out what is to happen and when. 

In fraught situations, it becomes very apparent, very shortly after the death, that there is going to be trouble. That trouble may be low level rumbling with no-one ever really addressing the issue or full scale shouting matches. Most families can anticipate  which it will be!

mf


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## dmos87 (8 Jun 2010)

Tbh, heaven forbid but if my parents passed tomorrow we are all aware that all property, belongings, etc. are split fairly. We know this because our parents have told us. Everything down to my mothers jewellery is assigned and thats just how we like it. Our parents decided who will get what and there is no bickering about it whatsoever. My mother showed us her jewellery box and said "Someday, this ring will belong to X and this one to Y" and so on. 

HOWEVER - if I was removed from any will and discovered so only after my parents passing, while yes I would be upset about the sentimental items I would still respect my parents wish. 

You come accross as very angry about the possibility of your partner being removed from the will but you do not state how your partner feels. Has your partner queried anything with his parent? If he is hurt about it perhaps he should have a talk with his parent privately about it. At least that is what I would do.


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## Pat Bateman (8 Jun 2010)

dmos87 said:


> Tbh, heaven forbid but if my parents passed tomorrow we are all aware that all property, belongings, etc. are split fairly. We know this because our parents have told us. Everything down to my mothers jewellery is assigned and thats just how we like it. Our parents decided who will get what and there is no bickering about it whatsoever. My mother showed us her jewellery box and said "Someday, this ring will belong to X and this one to Y" and so on.


 
Same here...I think it's the best way for all concerned. It's probably the more "modern" way though. I suspect older people are often more secretive/private about such things.


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## Tintagel (8 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> , with minimal input from her 3 brothers, who are spread over the globe.
> 
> They have both treated him very shabbily since my grandmother died and wouldn't dream of giving him anything - a meal out, Christmas or Birthday present for instance!


 
But if they are spread over the globe how can they look after their father?

Is it a crime to live abroad?


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## Pat Bateman (8 Jun 2010)

Tintagel said:


> But if they are spread over the globe how can they look after their father?
> 
> Is it a crime to live abroad?


 
It's unclear from ACA's post whether there's other "shabby treatment" involved, or he/she is equating being an "absent son" with "shabby treament".

Perhaps he/she could clarify?


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

In reply to the two posts above - 

Tintagel - I'm not suggesting that it's a crime to live abroad. My grandad is in his late eighties and has aged considerably since my nanna passed. What irritates me most about the situation is that my mum had looked after everything for the past 20 years. When my nanna passed the two brothers came to the funeral, looked around my grandparents home, declared that there was nothing of any real value and left within 24 hours of the funeral. I appreciate that they have their own lives to lead but being there and hearing those words was more than heartless at the time. Neither one contacted grandad until almost 9 months later.

Pat Bateman - the word shabby is a very weak word for the way that these two men have treated my grandad. Their absence isn't the issue - it's the way they speak to and treat him when they are here. They turn up about once a year, surprised to find him in good health and go out of their way to upset him and put him down. It takes longer each time for mum and me to build him back up after they visit; he's just so down on himself. 

I could go into greater depth but I don't think I'd be believed. Grandad could refuse to see them but doesn't as they are his sons and I think he believes that 'this time will be different - it's so sad.


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## Tintagel (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> The other two brothers are ganging up on my Mum - DEMANDING to see the will and using everything they can think of to 'guilt' her into asking their father to change his will.
> 
> 
> It feels like they're just waiting for him to die so that they swoop like vultures. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the solicitors office when the day comes, just to see the shock on their self-centred money hungry faces!!


 
It doesn't seem right that you are aware of the contents of your grandparents will but two of the sons are not. How come you know this and why is it any of your business?

Perhaps your two uncles see things differently?  Maybe they see your mother as someone who has interfered in their parents life for over 20 years. 

Perhaps your mother has this need to be needed and in doing so made her parents dependent on her. You say she has looked after them for 20 years, were they in poor health when they were in their 60's?

The last paragraph of your post above is nasty and vicious. These are uncles of yours that you never see except perhaps once a year if even that. Yet you are judging them.

I can only assume that both yourself and your mother share the same views fuelled on by gossip and ill feeling toward your uncles in order to boost yourselves and make yourselves out to be whiter than white.


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## Grizzly (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> They have both treated him very shabbily since my grandmother died and wouldn't dream of giving him anything - a meal out, Christmas or Birthday present for instance!


 
How do you know that your uncles never give your grandfather any of the above? How do you know that they have treated your grandfather shabbily?


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## Grizzly (9 Jun 2010)

dmos87 said:


> Tbh, heaven forbid but if my parents passed tomorrow we are all aware that all property, belongings, etc. are split fairly. We know this because our parents have told us. Everything down to my mothers jewellery is assigned and thats just how we like it. Our parents decided who will get what and there is no bickering about it whatsoever. My mother showed us her jewellery box and said "Someday, this ring will belong to X and this one to Y" and so on.


 
This is the way to do it.


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## IsleOfMan (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> One brother adores my Mum and feels that as she's been at their beck & call, putting their care ahead of herself, that she should be sole beneficiary to any estate.


 
Are you saying that your grandparents had your mother "at their beck and call"?  Why did you mother allow this to happen?  Maybe the brothers had the right idea then?


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

This thread has strayed quite a way from the original post, however I feel that I must address the comments put forward by Tintagel, Grizzly and ParkLane - 

Tintagel - I know the contents of my grandfathers will because he told me some 10 years ago. I'm not listed in his will and this causes me no heartache at all. He worked hard to provide for his family, why shouldn't he enjoy the fruits of his labours? What right has anyone to it? Mum would far prefer that he leaves it to an animal shelter or the church, he won't hear of it. My last paragraph in my 1st post is nasty, its true - unfortunately so is the last paragraph in my 2nd post - 





> I could go into greater depth but I don't think I'd be believed.... it's so sad.



Tintagel/ParkLane - My grandmother had a stroke in her late sixties and mum took over some of the household duties as my grandmother was unable to do these, as time went on her health declined further and mum did more, (I helped where I could). It's not martyrdom on her part (and certainly not mine), it's just the way things went. My grandparents, (like a lot of older people) were not willing to have home-help or similar, they come from a generation where family mattered most and they were the people that rallied round in times of need. As time went on further neither of my grandparents could drive, due to decline in their health and so a rota of sorts was set up between my sisters, my mum and me. It was pretty much expected that we'd step up, because that is was family does. I did resent it at times, as I suppose my sisters did but we did it anyway because we loved them and didn't feel it was right to leave it all up to mum. 

Grizzly - heard it from the horses mouth.


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## IsleOfMan (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> They turn up about once a year, surprised to find him in good health and go out of their way to upset him and put him down.


 
So he is in good health then.

Elderly parents can be very manipulative. Three sons and one daughter. Guess who they wanted to look after them in their old age. Not one of the three nasty sons but the "good" daughter.
"You look after us and we will leave everything to you in our will". Hey, your grandad even brought in to the game by telling you the contents of his will and while he was doing that he was bad mouthing his sons (from the horses mouth) about how they mistreat him when they visit.

You weren't a witness to this so it is all hearsay. How do you know that this is just being said to gain favour with your mother (you are my favourite, you look after me and keep me safe from them) at the expense of her brothers.

To say that you have no interest in your grandfathers will. But down the line you will inherit in turn from your mother!


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## BOXtheFOX (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> The other two brothers are ganging up on my Mum - DEMANDING to see the will and using everything they can think of to 'guilt' her into asking their father to change his will.


 
I think it sad that your grandfather is playing games. You say that 10 years ago he told you the contents of his will but he wouldn't tell his own two sons.
Why do you think he did that?


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## BOXtheFOX (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> He worked hard to provide for his family, why shouldn't he enjoy the fruits of his labours? What right has anyone to it?


 
This comment is not making sense. My understanding from your posts is that two brothers want to know the contents of a will and possibly have themselves included in it. Nobody is looking to take money from your grandfather while he is alive. This is to happen when he is dead.

Your grandfather is in his 80's. His sons were part of his life for what, 40 or 50 years. It seems like your mother and you are jumping in on the final furlong of his life.


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## mf1 (9 Jun 2010)

Do youse all not think youse are all getting a bit excited and over involved in a situation youse know nothing about? 

The only realities we all need to understand are: 

1. Where there's a will, there's a family. 
2. You can always anticipate the families where there is going to be a massive row after death - because its been brewing for years. 
3. Parents have no obligations to grown children to leave them anything. Most parents feel a moral obligation to do so. Most offspring feel a sense of entitlement - whether it is justified or not. 
4. Where one off spring is a primary carer, it is not unusual for them to inherit the bulk of the estate. Most families agree that this is fine. 

mf


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## Pat Bateman (9 Jun 2010)

mf1 said:


> Do youse all not think youse are all getting a bit excited and over involved in a situation youse know nothing about?
> 
> The only realities we all need to understand are:
> 
> ...


 
Well said mf1.

The majority of the wealth in Ireland is concentrated among a certain age group. Accordingly, disputes such as these should become more widespread over the next (say) 15-20 years.

Most accountancy and legal firms are now offering a succession planning service. This may be a good option for families of significant means.

In situations where siblings feel one sibling has been hard done by, there may be the option for those siblings to renounce their inheritance (or part of their inheritance). This would only work in cases where the "hard done by" sibling was not excluded from the will. Otherwise, it'd be a gift from sibling to sibling with the associated tax issues.

I'd also point out that in my experience it's those who've married into a family and their children who cause the most grief. Perhaps they married into the family for reasons only known to themselves and aren't too chuffed when things haven't panned out as predicted?

This is a messy messy area.


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

Talk about twisting things ParkLane! 'Good Health' is more of a euphemism than anything else; they have expressed disappointment within earshot of me that he's celebrating another birthday and that their 'inheritance' is worth less and less the longer he's alive. Whilst I agree that elderly parents can be manipulative, it isn't all hearsay and gossip, I have been witness to more than enough to form my own opinions. 

As to my mothers will - 95% of her estate goes to my youngest sister. No-one in the family including me has any issue with this - mums money, mums choice, she brought me up, fed and clothed me until I was able to do so myself, what right have I got to expect anything else from her purely by virtue of being related to her - NONE!


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## WaterWater (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> Mum would far prefer that he leaves it to an animal shelter or the church, he won't hear of it.


 
Your mother would prefer that your grandad do this than leave it to his own sons? 
If your mother doesn't want the money could she not suggest that for the sake of peace in the family that he includes his sons in the will.


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## WaterWater (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> they have expressed disappointment within earshot of me that he's celebrating another birthday and that their 'inheritance' is worth less and less the longer he's alive.


 
What inheritance?  Your mother has this wrapped up.


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

It's easy to draw conclusions standing on the outside of the situation. 

Thanks for the written support mf1


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## SlugBreath (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> It really sickens me that despite the 2 brothers having homes of their own, and being at almost retirement age themselves, they feel that they deserve a share of my grandad's estate.


 
There is nothing wrong in your uncles having homes of their own. Does your mother have a home of her own?

Your uncles moved abroad to find work and look after their families, nothing wrong in that either. I am sure that they would have liked to stay in Ireland and be close to your grandparents.  Your mother was lucky to be able to do this. She had the opportunity to take care of your grandparents, they didn't.


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

None of my family are originally from Ireland SlugBreath. 

I think this thread has now been done and would appreciate it if mods closed.


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## Bronco Lane (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> None of my family are originally from Ireland SlugBreath.
> 
> I think this thread has now been done and would appreciate it if mods closed.


 
This is actually someone else's thread that you contributed to, so I am not sure that it would be fair to the original OP to close it.


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## mathepac (9 Jun 2010)

Hopefully despite having the thread  hijacked and all the bickering that went on,  OP managed to glean something useful from it.


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## Bronco Lane (9 Jun 2010)

ACA said:


> They have both treated him very shabbily since my grandmother died


 
Why do you think that this all started around the time your grandmother died? Was their a trigger?


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## peelabee (9 Jun 2010)

ACA, for what it's worth - I think your mum does deserve whatever your grandad chooses to leave her.  I don't see why anyone thinks your uncles deserve to be left anything in the will or indeed, to be shown it.  It is your grandads' business who he tells or shows the will to.  I also am quite surprised at how distrusting some of the other posters are regarding what you've said about your uncles.  Why do they automatically think the uncles are being wronged?  It's not hard to send birthday and christmas gifts by mail even if they are unable to visit at these times.  And to leave within 24 hours of their mothers death/funeral does give the impression that there is not a lot of feeling there for their dad and your mum and your family.  Don't take the nasty comments to heart and enjoy having your grandad around.
Peelabee


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## ACA (9 Jun 2010)

thanks peelabee 

it appears that mf1's comment - where there's a will there's a family was spot on. And based upon some of the posts that I have had aimed at me, there is going to be a lot of unhappy people in the future


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Jun 2010)

The original question has been answered and yiz are just letting off steam


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