# Ex Gratia Redundancy Payment...what onus on employer to pay?



## Squonk (15 Jul 2009)

If, for example, a multinational decides to close its business in Ireland and pull out competely, what onus is on the multinational to pay anything more than statutory?  In a non-unionised company that is shutting down it seems to me that the employees don't have much negotiaion leverage?


----------



## Setanta12 (15 Jul 2009)

A simple answer here I'm afraid, from someone who is going through a redundancy himself. Your answer is None, other than a smooth wind-down.


----------



## mathepac (15 Jul 2009)

'ex gratia' roughly translated is 'as a favour', so there is no onus on any company to make an ex gratia payment.


----------



## csirl (15 Jul 2009)

There have been cases in the labour court where multinationals have been made pay above statutory redundancy on the basis that they could easily afford to do so and statutory redundance did not adequately compensate the employees for the loss of the job.


----------



## Calebs Dad (15 Jul 2009)

How many employees are affected


----------



## Squonk (16 Jul 2009)

csirl said:


> There have been cases in the labour court where multinationals have been made pay above statutory redundancy on the basis that they could easily afford to do so and statutory redundance did not adequately compensate the employees for the loss of the job.


 Thanks.....do you have any links to this?


----------



## Squonk (16 Jul 2009)

Calebs Dad said:


> How many employees are affected


 None yet....but storm clouds are on the horizon...potentially 100 employees.


----------



## Calebs Dad (16 Jul 2009)

Then that would be classed as a collective redundancy.........better opportunity to negotiate improved offer. If you dont have a union you can and should organise an employee committee. An Irish employer who is proposing to make a significant number of their employees redundant must refer to the Protection of Employment Act, 1977 ("The Act"). The Act places additional obligations on employers in a collective redundancy situation.


The Act provides that an employer must consult with employee representatives with a view to reaching agreement ‘in good time’ and in any event 30 days before the first of the dismissals are due to take effect. 



An employer is obliged to consult with employee representatives in relation to a number of issues including the possibility of reducing the need for collective redundancies, as well as the number of employees to be dismissed. The information it is obliged to give in writing to employee representatives includes: 

The reasons for the proposed redundancies.
The number and categories of employees it is proposed to make redundant.
The period during which it is proposed to effect the proposed redundancies.
The criteria proposed for the selection of the employees to be made redundant.
The method for calculating any redundancy payment other than those methods set out in the Redundancy Payments Acts 1967-2003.
If an employer does not consult with employee representatives the employee representative can refer a complaint to a Rights Commissioner who has a number of options including awarding the employees up to 4 weeks remuneration if it finds the complaint well founded. If an employer proceeds with dismissals before the 30 day period is up, it could be fined up to €3,000 
If you need more detail, let me know


----------



## Squonk (16 Jul 2009)

Thanks for that info Calebs_Dad. Reading through it there still is no legal pressure for a company to give anything more than statutory as far as I can see. Or let's say more realistically, for the employer to pay 2weeks ex gratia instead of 4 or 6 weeks etc, especially in these hard times. If I recall correctly the folks let go in Dell were given 4 (?)weeks ex-gratia and that didn't include overtime and they were not happy...I'm not sure any discussions with the company changed that? It seems to me that bad publicity is the only pressure that could be applied.


----------



## shipibo (16 Jul 2009)

Was there a previous redundancy package ??? if so , get details ..


----------



## Squonk (16 Jul 2009)

crumdub12 said:


> Was there a previous redundancy package ??? if so , get details ..


 In the past when there were layoffs (~10 people) the ex-gratia payment was about 6 weeks + statutory. Since then my company has been sold to another multinational.


----------



## Calebs Dad (16 Jul 2009)

without knowing the name of the company, size etc. hard to comment further. PM me with details if you want


----------



## Pope John 11 (20 Jul 2009)

csirl said:


> There have been cases in the labour court where multinationals have been made pay above statutory redundancy on the basis that they could easily afford to do so and statutory redundance did not adequately compensate the employees for the loss of the job.


 
Similar scenario, small company, friend made redundant after 10 years of service, no ex-gratia payment, no negotiations made, just paid statutory redundancy. Company continues to survive. Does he have any rights at all to claim more, & if so, where is this legistlation?

Any examples out there of similar situations?


----------



## Squonk (22 Jul 2009)

Just heard about Element 6 in Shannon.....1 week per year of service + statutory...workers rightfully feel very agrieved, but the managment say it's a done deal. It will be interesting to see what options the workers have to improve the redundancy package.


----------



## jack2009 (22 Jul 2009)

Squonk said:


> Just heard about Element 6 in Shannon.....1 week per year of service + statutory...workers rightfully feel very agrieved, but the managment say it's a done deal. It will be interesting to see what options the workers have to improve the redundancy package.


 
It really depends on the financial status of the company and the good will they are looking to achieve from having to make a mass redundancy.  as suggest, get the unions involved in the negotiations they love this sort of thing and may be able to exert pressure in the right places.


----------



## Mpsox (22 Jul 2009)

Squonk said:


> In the past when there were layoffs (~10 people) the ex-gratia payment was about 6 weeks + statutory. Since then my company has been sold to another multinational.


 
My understanding is that under TUPE for a situation where a company has been taken over, previous redundancy packages do not carry over to the new employer as a right.


----------

