# Why must I go to the Appeals Panel if I have a final response letter from AIB?



## rustbucket (13 Aug 2021)

1) I am in the 300 Cohort
2) I complained to AIB about the tracker rate offered, the amount of compensation and the use of simple interest.
3) They responded on 16 June rejecting my complaint with the following wording at the end







4) I complained to the Ombudsman on 22nd June saying I wished to skip the mediation process
5) The Ombudsman replied today saying

The Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman’s processes require that a financial service
provider’s internal complaints mechanism be exhausted before a complaint can be pursued
through this office. As part of the Examination process there is an option to appeal the offer to
an Independent Appeals Process. Thereafter, if you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of that
appeal your complaint to this office may be pursued.


How could this be right?  AIB sent me a Final Response Letter.  They did not say that I had to go through their Appeals Process first.  The Appeals Process is optional and I don't want to waste a further 6 months of effort dealing with them.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

It's a very good question.

As you are in the 300 Cohort, you are subject to the Central Bank's Tracker Mortgage Examination Framework and so have the "option" of going to the Independent Appeals Panel. 

Under the CB regime, the lenders were not allowed to deal with appeals or complaints directly, so the only way of getting a Final Response was by going to the Panel.

If you were not in the 300 Cohort, you would not be in the TME and could not access the Panel. AIB is allowed by the Central Bank to deal with your complaint directly.  So you would be going straight to the Ombudsman now.

AIB appears to have thought that you could go straight to the Ombudsman as they were issuing you with a Final Response Letter and said to you "If you are dissatisfied with our response, you can go to the Ombudsman."

At the very least AIB should have said to you. 

"If you are dissatisfied with your response, you may appeal to the Independent Appeals Panel. If you are dissatisfied with their decision, you can go to the Ombudsman.  Please note you cannot go to the Ombudsman unless you have complained to the Independent Appeals Panel first"

My concern about all this is that people with genuine complaints are having their energy sapped by having to jump through so many hurdles.  And they will just give up in frustration. 

Brendan


----------



## rustbucket (13 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It's a very good question.
> 
> As you are in the 300 Cohort, you are subject to the Central Bank's Tracker Mortgage Examination Framework and so have the "option" of going to the Independent Appeals Panel.
> 
> ...


Thank you for clarifying Brendan. Where does that leave the 300 cohort now though? A year wasted going back and forth with AIB looking for updates on this issue. Should we now be looking to generate a group response or template to the appeals panel?

it seems a ridiculous scenario as the crux of the issue is how AIB have interpreted the interest. The clarity has to come from the ombudsman. I suspect there are going to be large quantities of the 300 cohort being redirected to the appeals panel. Possibly having to wait another 6 months to a year for that process to finally end up at the ombudsman’s door again.

It’s also hard to believe how they would mess up more wording in communications to customers on this issue. Thankfully this time for everyone involved it’s not contract related but you would have thought they would be making sure all the I’s were dotted and t’s crossed.


----------



## Johnno75 (13 Aug 2021)

The Ombudsman will not deal with the matter unless you go through the appeal system. This obliges you to appeal if you want the ombudsman to deal with it. AIB seem to have made a hash of things, yet again.

The only other alternative to sidestep this mess is to go to court. This has major downsides though (exposure to costs) and would likely be even slower than the Appeal to Ombudsman route, notwithstanding that this could take many months to complete.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

rustbucket said:


> Should we now be looking to generate a group response or template to the appeals panel?



The Appeals Panel has no relevance. They have arrived at the opposite conclusion to the Ombudsman so they  are going to reject your Appeal anyway. 

So do not spend any time or effort with them.  

You have complained to the Ombudsman. Just send that into the Appeals Panel.  Sit back for 6 months and when they reject it, send the reject letter to the Ombudsman.

Brendan


----------



## Mrs Vimes (13 Aug 2021)

I would also send a letter of complaint to AIB as they misled you about the appropriate route being to go directly to the Ombudsman which wasted more time and energy writing a useless complaint.

They should have given you the correct information in their response letter.

It won't change anything overall but I have found banks generally react to complaints like that with an apology and a few quid which will cover the hour's work and annoyance.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

OK, I have thought a bit further about this and gone back to the Act which says 

50 (3) The Ombudsman shall not investigate or make a decision on a complaint where—
(a) the  internal  dispute  resolution  procedures  required  under  section  54 have not
been complied with,

*Use of internal dispute resolution procedures*
54. (1) The Ombudsman may decide not to investigate or make a decision on a complaint
where—
(a) the  complainant  has  not  engaged  with  the  financial  service  provider  or  the
pension provider concerned, and
(b) that  financial  service  provider  or  pension  provider  has  not  been  given  a
reasonable opportunity to deal with the complaint, as the case may be, through
the internal dispute resolution procedures of the provider concerned.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

So I think that the Ombudsman is correct in this case. 

If they had heard your complaint and upheld it without you going through the Independent Appeals Panel Process, then AIB could argue that correct procedures were not followed and challenge the decision in the High Court. 

It's a weakness in the legislation.  
A financial institution could set up 
A) A Complaints Department - where you make a complaint 
B) An Appeals Department - where you can appeal the decision of the Complaints Department 
C) A Supreme Court - which would issue the Final Response Letter 

AIB has A) and B) and so unfortunately, you must go through both procedures. 

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

As I said above, it is clearly AIB's fault for issuing what looks like a Final Response Letter telling you that you can go to the Ombudsman without telling you that you must go to the Independent Appeals Panel first.

Rustbucket
I presume that they did tell you that you had a right to appeal to the Independent Appeals Panel?  Could you maybe post that section of the letter so we get the full context? 

Thanks

Brendan


----------



## rustbucket (13 Aug 2021)

Is this the section you mean Brendan?
That’s the only bit that mentions any end or finality to the issue (or so I thought)


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

Hi rustbucket

Thanks for that.  I am scratching my head here. 

1) "You have a right to appeal but this will not affect your right to go to the Ombudsman" 
2) "This is our final response" 
3) "You can go to the Ombudsman if you are not happy" 

These are just contradictory statements. 
I am trying to figure out if it's incompetence on AIB's part or a clever plan to sap your will to live.  On balance, I assume it's incompetence.  They have cut and pasted bits from different templates and don't seem to have cared whether they were contradictory or not.

Unfortunately, I think you have to jump through the hoop of the Appeals Panel. 

You could send that section to the Ombudsman and ask him to get AIB's agreement to waive the obligation to go to the Ombudsman. But that will probably take 6 months to get their agreement to that. 

So just send in your complaint to the Appeals Panel and when they reject it go to the Ombudsman..

But , as part of your complaint to the Ombudsman, you should raise this issue of appalling communication from AIB.

Brendan


----------



## ClubMan (13 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am trying to figure out if it's incompetence on AIB's part or a clever plan to sap your will to live.  On balance, I assume it's incompetence.











						Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Johnno75 (13 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am trying to figure out if it's incompetence on AIB's part or a clever plan to sap your will to live. On balance, I assume it's incompetence.


There’s certainly been an abundance of incompetence on the part of AIB in all of this, such that it is developing into a pattern.

For all the incompetence, the question arises: _cui bono?_


----------



## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2021)

Jayom75 said:


> cui bono?


He is the lead singer of U2.


----------



## rustbucket (20 Aug 2021)

In case anyone else is in the same boat you need to contact AIB to get them to send you out an appeals pack. I thought it would be a simple ‘we want to appeal your decision’ letter but apparently not. That would be too easy….


----------



## rustbucket (6 Sep 2021)

Sent off appeal pack. Kept it to a minimum. Received a letter from BDO acknowledging receipt and informing me they have sent it to AIB for a response.
They will then furnish me a copy of their response and provide an update. 

hopefully this will be knocked on the head quickly as the only people who can clarify at this stage is the ombudsman.

I can’t imagine AIB suddenly deciding to pay compound interest off their own bat…


----------

