# Lost my job and want to claim SW but landlord wont sign papers.



## mark123can (4 Feb 2009)

I have lost my job recently and would like to claim social welfare,but the landlord doesnt want to sign any forms

this means i cant get normal dole or rent allowance

I am the only tenant and the rent is 750 a month

I am living there 8months so far

Is there anyway to "make" a landord sign the forms or report him to anyone or can landlords refuse if they wish?

I cant see any reason why hed refuse unless he hasnt been paying tax or whatever


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## sandrat (4 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

do you have a rent book or lease or any proof of what you have been paying?


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## Eblanoid (4 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Check if the address is listed here:
http://www.prtb.ie/pubregister.htm
If not, there's a strong likelihood that the landlord is not registered with the PRTB (as required by law) and, it follows, probably not declaring income to Revenue.  These can both be used as, ahem, bargaining chips.


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## sam h (4 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Did you ever have to provide PPS no. for the PRTB?  You would have got confirmation back from them with the registration number if so.  

The land lord is obligibed to register with the PRTB, but I don't know if they HAVE to sign rent supplement forms - you often see on DAFT that certain landlords don;t accept rent allowance/supplement.  I know some landlords are reluctant to sign forms as if the rent allaowance is cut off the tentant often just shrugs their shoulder & says "what can I do?" (happened me....she couldn't understand why she wouldn't get full RA after taking a 2 month holiday?!?!).  I'd still take RA though.... actually I'd be open to green shield stamps!


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## mark123can (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



sandrat said:


> do you have a rent book or lease or any proof of what you have been paying?



well i could get a print out from my bank which shows rent going from my account to his account each month so it would be hard for him to deny that  when its going into his bank account


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## mark123can (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



Eblanoid said:


> Check if the address is listed here:
> http://www.prtb.ie/pubregister.htm
> If not, there's a strong likelihood that the landlord is not registered with the PRTB (as required by law) and, it follows, probably not declaring income to Revenue.  These can both be used as, ahem, bargaining chips.



actually i checked the list and the apartment is not on that list 

although strangely the apartment upstairs is on the list and i am almost sure the same guy owns both


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## mark123can (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



sam h said:


> Did you ever have to provide PPS no. for the PRTB?  You would have got confirmation back from them with the registration number if so.
> 
> The land lord is obligibed to register with the PRTB, but I don't know if they HAVE to sign rent supplement forms - you often see on DAFT that certain landlords don;t accept rent allowance/supplement.  I know some landlords are reluctant to sign forms as if the rent allaowance is cut off the tentant often just shrugs their shoulder & says "what can I do?" (happened me....she couldn't understand why she wouldn't get full RA after taking a 2 month holiday?!?!).  I'd still take RA though.... actually I'd be open to green shield stamps!



no,ive never been asked for my pps number by the landlord or by the prtb

it looks like this apartment is not registered with the prtb


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## peteb (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

I have to say I'm sick of this advice of people assuming that just because a landlord doesnt want to sign any forms that he must be avoiding tax and to go check it out with the PRTB if they are registered! 

We all know the PRTB isnt the most efficient and I wouldn't be taking their list as gospel! 

But you go "rat out" somebody to the taxman on the assumption that he's on the fiddle and I'm sure that he will show you the door that little bit quicker!

He owns the property, he rents it to you, and unfortunate as your circumstances are, nobody is obliged to sign anything.  Some people have their view on certain things.  I personally had a tenant do the same and I wasn't prepared to sign anything. 

Just  a personal choice!


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## PaddyW (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Chill the beans dude. OP have you been claiming rent relief from revenue while you were still in full employment?


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## Bronte (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

I'm a landlord and to register a tenant with the PRTB I have to get the tenant's PSNI number and the tenant has to sign it.  I do not know if the PRTB sends a letter to the tenant or not but they do to the landlord confirming registration.  The PRTB currently (not in the past) checks the PSNI numbers of both landlord and tenant.  Their property list is difficult to figure out, I cannot find mine on it for example.  You could telephone the PRTB to find out.  In relation to the dole, this has nothing to do with the landlord?  In relation to the rent allowance from the HSE I suppose the landlord doesn't have to sign the form if he doesn't want to but one of the social welfare experts would need to give you advice on this.


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## gipimann (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

It is a personal choice of any landlord to accept Rent Supplement tenants or not.

If your landlord won't sign the forms, but you have a lease or tenancy agreement which shows the amount of rent paid, that may be accepted by the CWO when processing the application for Rent Supplement.   Your bank statement showing rent paid would not be sufficient.

Just two things to point out -

There is a maximum rent limit, and Rent Supplement isn't payable if the rent exceeds that limit (there are some limited exceptions).  The limit varies from country to county, the highest limit for 1 person (which applies in Dublin) is €130 per week, which is less than you're paying now.   You may be asked to seek cheaper accommodation before being granted Rent Supplement.

If you are granted Rent Supplement for your existing apartment, the HSE will write to the landlord requesting his PPSN, so even if you don't tell the landlord you've applied for Rent Supplement, he's going to find out anyway - just in case that may cause difficulties for you.


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## Eblanoid (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



peteb said:


> I have to say I'm sick of this bull**** advice of people assuming that just because a landlord doesnt want to sign any forms that he must be avoiding tax and to go check it out with the PRTB if they are registered! We all know the PRTB aint the most efficient and I wouldnt be taking their list as gospel!


That's why I said: "*strong likelihood* that the landlord is not registered with the PRTB".


peteb said:


> But you go "rat out" somebody to the taxman on the assumption that he's on the fiddle and I'm sure that he will show you the door that little bit quicker!!


You're contradicting yourself.  If the landlord is fully compliant with relevant legislation, there's no legal way he could victimise the tenant for "ratting him out".  If the landlord is registered with the PRTB and declaring to Revenue he has nothing to fear anyway, so nobody loses out.


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## Raskolnikov (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Would it not be best to just leave and find a landlord who will accept rent allowance/supplement?


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## mangos (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Hi

I was reading a number of PRTB  cases one which involved a scenario like yours.  Then tenant complained to the prtb because the landlord refused to sign a rent supplement form some time after the tenant lost her job.  The PRTB ruled that the landlord was not obliged to sign these forms and neither was there any legislation to ensure a landlord would have to.

Mangos


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## mark123can (5 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



mangos said:


> Hi
> 
> I was reading a number of PRTB  cases one which involved a scenario like yours.  Then tenant complained to the prtb because the landlord refused to sign a rent supplement form some time after the tenant lost her job.  The PRTB ruled that the landlord was not obliged to sign these forms and neither was there any legislation to ensure a landlord would have to.
> 
> Mangos



its just an awkward situation

I think we have reached an impass

If he fails to sign the forms i may not be able to continue to make the payments


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## mathepac (6 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



Bronte said:


> ... I have to get the tenant's *PSNI number* ... PRTB currently (not in the past) checks the *PSNI numbers* of both landlord and tenant...


So landlord and tenant got on the wrong side of the law in the North; bummer.


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## Complainer (6 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



Raskolnikov said:


> Would it not be best to just leave and find a landlord who will accept rent allowance/supplement?



Best for who?


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## Bronte (9 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



mathepac said:


> So landlord and tenant got on the wrong side of the law in the North; bummer.


Sorry mathpac I'm still with the PRSI number in my head and have never moved to the PPS number, don't know where I got PSNI though?


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## Denali (27 Feb 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*

Oooh, actually regardless of your personal choice, you ARE legally required to register your tenancy with the PTRB. And most landlords that havnt registered with PRTB are evading revenue!! You however are not required to accept rent allowance. So suck that up!!!


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## roro123 (27 Feb 2009)

Isn't there some tenants rights that after 6 months they kick in?. If you stop paying rent and he can't get you out of his house that quickly, then I think you are in a stronger position in the negotiation. If it went to court then his status as a landlord would be pretty obvious. Alternatively you could report the landlord to the revenue or see where you can pick over the info on this site
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/tenants_rights_and_obligations


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## Airtight (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: can landlord do this?*



Denali said:


> Oooh, actually regardless of your personal choice, you ARE legally required to register your tenancy with the PTRB. And most landlords that havnt registered with PRTB are evading revenue!! You however are not required to accept rent allowance. So suck that up!!!



"So Suck That Up"  what a line


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## picaresque (9 Mar 2009)

While I appreciate that it has been established that a landlord does not have to sign these forms why would they have an issue with doing so? The poster who said s/he doesn't accept them either is it just the assumption that those in receipt of RA are more likely to miss payments?


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