# TV license inspector's aggressive manner



## Lauren (9 Feb 2006)

Firstly sorry if this is a bit long winded..please bear with me..

I've just moved into my new apartment (yaaayyyy!). Last night the door buzzer rang (I'm on the top floor, someone was buzzing from the ground floor)...Thought it was my dad visiting but the guy on the other end introduced himself as from "An Post - TV Licence inspector". 

He demanded to know if I was a new resident and what my name was...I was taken aback by his aggressive tone and alarm bells started to ring. Didn't give him my name initially but told him that as I'd only moved in I didn't have a tv. He said "I can't put you down as someone without a TV unless you prove it to me. buzz me in so I can come up".

I said "No" and made some feeble excuses about having a visitor and the place being a mess. He kept insisting on being allowed up until I firmly said "NO". He said "I'll put you down for having a tv since you won't prove it and you have until middle of March to get a license. I'll be back to check then".

I intend getting a tv and a license so theres no problem there. If I do, will he still come back or will he be able to tell I have a license from An Post records? I really don't want him (or anyone else) demanding to enter my apartment again (assuming he was who he said he was).

His aggressive tone scared me and I honestly didn't trust he was who he said he was. I have no way of seeing him (no camera) from my apartment and the only option would be to go downstairs and have a look at him through a glass door!

Am I being too paranoid here? Do other people (especially women in apartment complexes) have the same concern about verifying the identify of such allegedly 'official' visitors?


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## pricilla (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments*

When you go down to buy your TV Licence, you should tell them exactly what happened so you can make a complaint. Have all the details like, date time etc, he might not even be working for them. 
I can totally understand where you are coming from, I wouldn't want anyone demanding to get into my home like that.


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## smree (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments*

I think you were right not to allow him in. I live in an apartment by myself and I'm wary of letting 'official' visitors in after a bad incident. It's one of those situations were people think you're being too catious but then if you open the door and something happens people will tell you that you shouldn't have opened the door and let a stranger in. One thing I would recommend is getting a spy hole on your apartment door and you can then allow them into the main building and make sure that they have valid Id before opening your apartment door. Also check if they have a number you can ring to verify their identity. Better to feel a bit paranoid and be safe.

Once you get the licence you'll be on An Post records as having one so he shouldn't turn up at your door again.

Congrats on the new apartment!!


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments*

When you buy a _TV _keep the receipt and then buy the license. That will be proof enough if anybody ever needs it that you are compliant in this matter. And make a complaint in writing about the inspector's manner if he was that rude.


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## ragazza (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments*

Hi Lauren,

I think you were absolutely right not to let this strange man into your apartment, or to give out your name. 
There is no way I would let a stranger come into my home uninvited.

Even if he was genuinely from An Post, he should have been polite, introduced himself properly, and given his ID number, so that you could check his credentials with An Post.

And even if you checked it out, and it was all above-board, he cant insist to enter your home straightaway - maybe you were in the middle of a dinner party or having a bath etc. He should make an appointment for a mutually convenient time.

Hopefully once you buy your TV and license, you wont hear from him again.


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## ajapale (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Hi Lauren,

You were right, and I sympathise with your predicament. You owe a duty to your neighbours not to let anyone you dont know in.

We had a thread concerning the behaviour and attitude of TVLI's here a few years ago. I think the thread degenerated into a general rant about the TV licence itself. (Hopefully this thread will remain on topic).

I had a similar experience many years ago when I lived in Dublin. The TVLI was agressive and there was a smell of alcohol from his breath. We reported him but never heard any more.

As far as I know An Post post a "statutory declaration form" to the residents of each new dwelling. You are obliged to filll the declaration form and return it after set time. This seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable way dealing with TV Licence Inspections in new developments.

Does any one know if TVLI's can demand your name? Can the Garda Siochana simply present at a private dwelling and demand the name of the person who answers the intercom (it could be a child, OAP,  baby sitter, visitor)?

aj


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## Kiddo (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



			
				ajapale said:
			
		

> As far as I know An Post post a "statutory declaration form" to the residents of each new dwelling. You are obliged to filll the declaration form and return it after set time. This seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable way dealing with TV Licence Inspections in new developments.


 
We never received any such form when we moved in to our house just over 2 years ago. The TVLI called one satuday morning about 15 months after we moved in, asking to inspect our licence (which we didn't have). He was fairly persistant as he rang the doorbell 2 or 3 times...we were still in bed at the time.

As far as I can remember he did mention something about knowing we had a tv. He was very plesant and asked for my name, which I gave him. He then told me we had two weeks to acquire a licence and he would call back if we didn't get one. I think he gave me some form of receipt to say he'd called.


Lauren 

I think you did the right thing not allowing this person in. You just can't be too careful these days. I would also report the incident to An Post immediately. If he was genuine, then he deserves to be reprimanded for his attitude. If he isn't genuine then the Gardai should be notified.


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## zag (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Lauren - I would contact the license people today and establish whether it was one of their people or not.

If it was, then he should get a reminder regarding customer service and the *absolute* right of people within their own house to refuse entry to whoever they want.

If it wasn't then you could post a note to your neighbours warning about bogus license inspectors trying to gain admision.

The whole "prove it to me" thing has to be rubbish since you can't prove you don't have a TV.  He can prove you have one if he sees it, but not the other way round.

z


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## A.J (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

You were most certainly right not to let him in - that sounds very strange indeed.

I think the places where you buy the TV's might send a list of people who buy tv's to An Post (not 100% sure on this) but we bougt our TV from Power City and we got a notice in the door about a week later, it was also a new development of houses too so was probably targeted. 

But Power City enter our details on a data base and the name on the TV licence letter was spelt incorrectly just like it was on their system so it seems like there is a bit of a connection.

I'm just speculating here.....


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## Bamhan (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

When my parents were building their new house a TV licence form came to the house they were renting in the interim stating that they needed a licence for their TV. It was addresed to the new postal address where they would be living in about six months time.
They had no TV at the rented accomodation.
Anyway they ignored it and another came and eventually an inspector happened to call on one of the days my father was at the site and demaded to see his TV licence.
My father pointed out he had neither a TV, nor a licence, nor at that point even a habitable house at the address to which the corrospondence kept coming.
Th TVLI said well you had better get one as soon as you move in, I'll make a note of your name and address and call back.
He was so set in his routine he was unable to make the leap to the fact that my father was not denying he needed a licence for a TV but that he simply didn't have a TV at the time.
Madness.


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## stuart (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

A television licence inspector has no right to enter your house under any grounds unless has a warrant, as would a Garda

They also have no way of detecting if you have a TV or not
Why would they bother, almost everyone has

People trying to obtain access to apartment buildings usually use this as most people will just buzz them in
That includes people trying to ransack post boxes, break in, etc

If anyone wants your name or address from a buzzer say no thanks

On a similar vain I have been contacted by my credit card co outside of office hours wanting to know if I wanted payment protection or the likes
But they have asked for personal details to verify it's me
I just politely ask for a number and I will call them back the next day
Each time it has been legit but sooner or later people will start using these techniques for fraudulent activities


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## Lauren (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Thanks guys. My gut instinct is usually right but just wanted to ensure I wasn't overreacting....


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## DrMoriarty (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Absolutely not. Please post back and let us know what An Post have to say about it.


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## Danmo (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

I complained to An post before about a really agressive inspector. My mother answered the door and basically he put his foot in the front door and forced his way into the hall. My mother is no wilting violet but she was quite shaken by his agressive behaviour. What if it was an old person? You should complain in writing. If enough people complain, they might get their inspectors to be a little more considerate.


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

She should have called the _Gardaí_. That is trespass!


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## Nollaig (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

In an apartment situation,you do not answer your buzzer at all.If you have a friend or relation calling they will text or call on their mobile when they are outside.


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## Lauren (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Nollaig, I'm starting to think that alright..I always know when someone is on the way or visting..Problem was that I was expecting my dad so didn't hesitate...I'll be more careful in future!


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## Binomial (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Hi Lauren,

You should complain in writing to:
James Brady,
Head of TV Licencing Services,
An Post,
GPO,
Dublin 1

Your letter of complaint should be factual and matter of fact and unemotive.

Make sure your letter actually asks for something ie an apology, a reassurance that TVLI's are trained to the highest possible standards or an explanation as what exactly the procedure is.

You should hold on to all correspondence and resist the urge to conduct the discussion over the phone or by email.

CC the letter to the both the chairman and chief executive of An Post.

Finally you should mention that in the event of an unsatisfactory or tardy response that you have contacted the [broken link removed].

Good Luck!

BiNomial


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## zat29 (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



			
				Lauren said:
			
		

> He demanded to know if I was a new resident and what my name was...
> 
> He said "I can't put you down as someone without a TV unless you prove it to me. buzz me in so I can come up".
> 
> I really don't want him (or anyone else) demanding to enter my apartment again (assuming he was who he said he was).




Lauren,

This guy sounds like a con-artist trying to gain entry to the complex to steal etc.

Put your legal hat on here:
1. You do not have to let ANYONE onto your premises, even a Garda without a search warrant. In fact you shouldn't let anyone onto your premises as they could injure themselves and sue you for negligence. Even burglers have sued for breach of 'duty of care' after injuring themselves by falling in a messy house!! Absurd as it sounds, its true.


2. If somebody demands to know what your name was then tell them to f'off or alternatively quiz them for name, ID etc. Write it down if necessary.

3. As for him telling you that you had to prove that you have a TV - no such thing could hold up in court. Innocent until proven guilty. I'd have asked him for proof that I had a TV in the house without his entry.

4. I would have phoned the Gardai as this guy sounds dodgy.

5. If he does call back then speak to him at the door, get his ID card for his name written down, ID number etc. Then when he asks do you have a license tell him that his records should now show that you have a license as everything is computerised.


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## zat29 (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



			
				ajapale said:
			
		

> As far as I know An Post post a "statutory declaration form" to the residents of each new dwelling. You are obliged to filll the declaration form and return it after set time. This seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable way dealing with TV Licence Inspections in new developments.



This sounds absurd. Why do you have to declare that you have / don't have a TV? I'd take that as an infringement on my rights to privacy. I would have sent that back with a note - "Please indicate to me what your bra size is".


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## Guest127 (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

I dont know the area but I did hear that an post contract out this licence collecting in cork to outside agencies. Heres a new one.
all the students in dcu campus have to take out a licence for each apartment. but hotels only need one licence for the whole hotel. seems unfair. I know the students have  tellys in their apartments but surely there could be a campus one costing say €1000 covering all the apartments. As it is my son and his pals have to buy one now for the whole year but they are leaving in June. the last 8 months of the licence are effectively waste.


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



			
				cuchulainn said:
			
		

> Heres a new one.
> all the students in dcu campus have to take out a licence for each apartment. but hotels only need one licence for the whole hotel. seems unfair.


This boards.ie thread seems to cover this issue.


> As it is my son and his pals have to buy one now for the whole year but they are leaving in June. the last 8 months of the licence are effectively waste.


No - as the thread above states the license can be transferred to a new address. Anyway, they don't *have *to get a license. They could always get rid of the _TV_.


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## z107 (10 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



> _ As far as I know An Post post a "statutory declaration form" to the residents of each new dwelling. You are obliged to filll the declaration form and return it after set time. _
> 
> This sounds absurd. Why do you have to declare that you have / don't have a TV? I'd take that as an infringement on my rights to privacy.



I too believe that it is an infrigement of privacy. In addition, I'd doubt they'd pay any attention to any such declaration. 

In the beginning, I used to write to TV licencing to stop them sending me letters. This never worked. Now I just return the unopened envelopes to the sender.

I was thinking of tying a brick to the letter in the hope that they'd have to pay for additional postage costs.


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## Guest127 (10 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

clubman: I know the licence  is for 12 months but theres 5 of them. what are they going to do.- toss for it?


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## ClubMan (10 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

No - one of them could take it and compensate the others.


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## Guest107 (11 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*



			
				Lauren said:
			
		

> His aggressive tone scared me and I honestly didn't trust he was who he said he was. I have no way of seeing him (no camera) from my apartment and the only option would be to go downstairs and have a look at him through a glass door!
> 
> Am I being too paranoid here? Do other people (especially women in apartment complexes) have the same concern about verifying the identify of such allegedly 'official' visitors?




You are quire right , complain officially in writing.


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## minion (20 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Safety first,  Never answer your door inside the apartment block anyway.  Let them knock all they want and ignore it.
If you didnt buzz someone in then they shouldnt be knocking on your door.
If they are on the intercom Tell them you'll ring an post next day and make an appointment but you are letting no stranger in.
IDs can be faked, so look the number up in the book yourself.  If you ring the number the caller gives you you might just be calling their partner in crime.


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## Noor77 (20 Feb 2006)

*Re: TV License Inspector Approaches in Apartments: Taken aback by aggressive tone*

Hi

I find it very hard to believe that was a real TV license inspector. I moved into my apartment in April of 2003. The TV license guy called around in May and as soon as I opened the door he made a point of saying he would not be coming into my apartment. He was really nice and asked that I have my license by the beginning of June.

I think you should definitely report your incident.

Two years ago my cousin was alone in her parents house and there was a knock on the door. A man dressed in a boiler suit with a laminated ID badge said he was calling around about the gas. She let him in and he pulled a knife on her and demanded money. He left when she handed over some cash, but she was left really traumatised. She reported it to the gardai and they got the guy a few weeks later - he had done a few similar scams already in the Castleknock area.

As a female, I NEVER open my front door unawares - luckily I have a window by the door so I can "check" my visitors


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## Devastated (5 Oct 2006)

I paid for my TV license once with my Credit card and without authorisation they took the payment every year thereafter. Last year got rid of the TV and cancelled license.
6 months ago the inspector came to buzzer. Didn't give him my name and didn't let him in. 2 weeks later I got a sales call from NTL. TV inspector had obviously double checked my address with them thus alerting NTL to the fact that I didn't have a subscription. I'm sure they cross reference with Xtravision etc too. 
TV license people sent one of those declaration things and I binned it. Haven't heard from them since.
Have heard they are planning on bringing out licenses for laptops now!


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## ClubMan (5 Oct 2006)

Devastated said:


> I paid for my TV license once with my Credit card and without authorisation they took the payment every year thereafter.


Are you sure that you never signed up to allowing them to do this? If not then that's out of order and you should complain to them in the first instance and, if necessary, [broken link removed] or the [broken link removed] perhaps.


> TV inspector had obviously double checked my address with them thus alerting NTL to the fact that I didn't have a subscription. I'm sure they cross reference with Xtravision etc too.


 Not obvious at all. Could be purely coincidental. What evidence (other than circumstantial) do you have that they check with cable providers never mind video rental shops in general and in this case specifically?


> TV license people sent one of those declaration things and I binned it. Haven't heard from them since.
> Have heard they are planning on bringing out licenses for laptops now!


 Are you sure about that? I thought that it was being mooted but no actual decision had been made?


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## CCOVICH (5 Oct 2006)

I'm pretty sure that if you sign up to pay by DD from either your CC or current account, you consent to An Post taking payment unless youi instruct them to do otherwise (I signed up last year)


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## ajapale (5 Oct 2006)

> TV license people sent one of those declaration things and I binned it.



You are required by law to complete the statutory declaration.


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## ClubMan (5 Oct 2006)

I think I paid for the last license by _CC _over the phone so I presume that this does not mean that I have consented to them drawing payment off the card for subsequent years?


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## Guest127 (5 Oct 2006)

if   you buy a tv down the north you have to give your name and address ,even if its a cash sale. they always explain its for licence purposes but still take your southern address.


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## ajapale (5 Oct 2006)

Devastated,

Please keep to the topic.

aj


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## grizzcol (5 Oct 2006)

re laptops if u have a tv card in them I thought that was enough of a requirement to have a tv license


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Oct 2006)

Please stick to questions and answers in this forum.

If people want to debate the value of the TV license or other issues, do so in Letting Off Steam.

Brendan


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## Kiddo (5 Oct 2006)

ClubMan said:


> I think I paid for the last license by _CC _over the phone so I presume that this does not mean that I have consented to them drawing payment off the card for subsequent years?


 
We pay ours by CC. We get a notice each year and phone up to pay with CC again..so no they won't automatically take it.  It may just apply to Direct debit mandates.


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## Lauren (5 Oct 2006)

Just to clarify the original post. It WAS an official license inspector, because a few weeks after the contact I received a notification to say that I had 'confirmed I had a tv' which I didn't and they expected me to get a license....


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## Guest127 (5 Oct 2006)

brendan: my point was that the tv authorities have more than one method of obtaining who owns tv sets.


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## extopia (5 Oct 2006)

Yeah - must be hard to track down those people with tv sets.


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## Crea (9 Oct 2006)

My Dad had awful trouble with TV license inspectors and letters. He had about 4 calls from inspectors. He is blind and doesn't have a TV. He told them this when they called. Then he started getting letters so he went into An Post  three times and explained this to them too. He was told that since he had an arial on his roof (from a previous owner) he had to have a license. He told them that if they paid for him to get the arial removed then he'd happily get rid of it. He didn't hear from them for a few years and a few weeks ago has started receiving letters. At this stage he's fed up and embarrassed to have to go into An Post and explain his situation so he's going to ignore. They have a complete block about people not having a TV - How do they survive!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Johnny1 (29 Oct 2006)

Them stupid ads on the TV don't help either giving people the impression that the inspector can walk into your house without even knocking on the door, and the so called friends that start poking fun at them because they have no TV license. A TV LI called to my uncle many years ago and asked had he a TV, he replied yes and allowed the LI in as they were walking in the hall the inspector asked is it black and white or colour? It's brown and grey replied my uncle.


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## Guest109 (29 Oct 2006)

i had this licence problem for 2 years and i had my licence paid ,numerous phone calls to them giving license no and dates paid their agent was out 3 times  with me showed him paid up license,s still no satisfaction so i copied licenses and sent them with a real nasty letter and told them to sue me if they want, i was hoping they would take me to court


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## pat127 (30 Oct 2006)

Take a look at http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/vfmreports/47_TVLicence.pdf if you really want to know how the National Database of TV licence-holders is compiled (Page 22) and how the Inspectors operate (Page 34).


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2006)

Very pertinent link!

Interesting to see that the estimated evasion rate in 2003 was 12%.

Some other interesting info:


> In most cases where evaders are detected and do not quickly purchase a licence, An Post
> commences prosecution proceedings. Analysis of a sample of prosecution cases in 2002 showed
> that about half of the summonses were returned unserved. No further action was taken in these
> cases.
> ...





> Television dealers in Ireland are required by law to notify An Post of each transaction for the sale or rental of a television, and to provide full details of the purchaser or renter. However, enforcement of this process was discontinued because An Post felt that the data being provided was unreliable or unusable.


 I've seen the notification requirement mentioned before but the last few times that I bought _TVs _I don't remember being asked for name/address details.


> Up to the middle of 2002, An Post operated a policy of limiting the number of summonses
> applications for administrative and cost reasons. The limit for the Dublin region was 500
> summons applications per month. As a result of this policy, summonses were not sought in 32%
> of cases listed for prosecution in February 2002, even though no licence was purchased. This
> ...



Having browsed through the report and the various _TV _license discussions here on _AAM _it makes you wonder if there might not be an easier and more cost effective way to fund public service broadcasting...


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## Guest127 (31 Oct 2006)

agreed. rte should collect their own licence fee and an post should just be a payment option ie like esb or mbna credits cards etc. think an post tried this a few years ago but rte wouldn't bite.


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