# Cost of getting to roof level



## Mrs Mac Leo (17 Oct 2010)

Hi can anyone help me  - my planning permission is due to run out mid 2012 and I need to get it up to roof level b4 then so that I dont lose planning permission (so I'm told) - I live in Cavan and the site is in Cavan.  Like a lot of people I own a house I cant afford to sell so need to do the bare minimum to comply with planning permission.  I am currently paying off for the site and by mid 2013 will have it paid off and then can afford a proper second mortgage and fit to finish the house - any guidance would be much appreciated!


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## onq (17 Oct 2010)

You are partly correct.
I'm recounting from memory discussions held on older thread here, so you should double check all I note below; -

Getting a house up to wall plate level was a factor in determining whether houses with the old 2-year permissions would be let complete.
Nowadays it is used as a determinant in relation to whether an extension of permission should be granted to allow completion.
For the extra involved you should at least get the house roofed and slated over and above wall plate level.

Once the envelope is complete and weathered my understanding is the building is substantially complete in planning terms such that the Local Authority cannot take action against you.

This may still leave you to complete all internal non-structural studwork, insulation, finish, fittings, sanitary and kitchen ware, internal doors, architraves, skirtings, ironmongery, heating, lighting and electrics, etc.

Different local authorities may interpret the position more or less literally.

Certainly there may be an issue regarding certification because while the premises may be deemed substantially complete in planning terms, it will not be substantially complete in terms of the building regulations and it will not be a habitable house.

SO its a grey area and one you should take detailed advice on from an expert but hopefully this points the way for you.

-----------------

In terms of your financial situation, my commiserations - and you are not alone in this.

I have no easy solution, but I think self-builders around Ireland may be able to help you in terms of trades - or you could ask in the appropriate forum here or over on Boards.ie.

One possible course of action is that you join a co-operative group and offer your time and manpower to help on their houses in lieu of the skills and trades you will need on yours.
In one sense it is a form of barter, but it will also help foster bonds of friendship and trust which may be useful in years to come.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                            as a defence or support - in and of itself -       should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue     reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## RKQ (18 Oct 2010)

Many people are in this situation. An application for an extension of duration can now be made without any works having been carried out. 

The following is the relevant part of S.I. No. 406 of 2010 which came into force on August 19 2010

" j) where the application is made pursuant to subparagraph (ii)(I) of section 42(1)(a) or subparagraph (ii)(I) of section 42A(1)(a), information regarding the considerations of a commercial, economic or technical nature beyond the control of the applicant *which substantially militated against the commencement of the **development or the carrying out of substantial works*,"


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## onq (18 Oct 2010)

RKQ,

   Well done. This is why I post and read AAM - an excellent reference. Thanks your up-to-the-minute advice - filed away. Its good to see economic circumstance is being taken into account now. There may be implications for enforcement if matters are significantly delayed.

However I have a query. The below wording is what the Regulation you refer to above says, but I am unsure where to find Section 42A of the Act. The references* in bold* below show it isn't a typo. Can you assist? The parliamentary draughtsmen seem to be adding letters to sections a lot.

ONQ.

--------------------------------------------------

_Interpretation
3. In these Regulations, unless otherwise stated, “the Regulations” means the
Planning and Development Regulations 2001, as amended.

Amendment of Article 42
6. Article 42 of the Regulations is substituted by the following subsection.
“42. (1) An application under section 42 *or section 42A *of the Act to
extend the appropriate period as regards a particular permission shall be
made in writing, shall be accompanied by the appropriate fee as prescribed
by Article 170 of these Regulations and shall contain the following
information—
(a) the name and address of the applicant and of the person, if any,
acting on behalf of the applicant,
(b) on a separate page, the telephone number and e-mail address, if
any, of the applicant and of the person, if any, acting on behalf
of the applicant,
(c) the address to which any correspondence relating to the application
should be sent,
(d) the location, townland or postal address of the land or structure
concerned, as may be appropriate,
(e) the legal interest in the land or structure held by the applicant,
(f) the development to which the permission relates,
(g) the date of the permission and its reference number in the register,
(h) the date on which the permission will cease to have effect,
(i) where the application is made on the basis of compliance with
subparagraph (i) of section 42(1)(a) or subparagraph (i) of section
*42A(1)(a)*, particulars of the substantial works carried out or
which will be carried out pursuant to the permission before the
expiration of the appropriate period,
(j) where the application is made pursuant to subparagraph (ii)(I) of
section 42(1)(a) or subparagraph (ii)(I) of section *42A(1)(a)*,
information regarding the considerations of a commercial, economic
or technical nature beyond the control of the applicant
which substantially militated against the commencement of the
development or the carrying out of substantial works,
(k) the date or projected date of commencement of the development
to which the permission relates,
(l) the additional period by which the permission is sought to be
extended, and
(m) the date on which the development is expected to be completed.”
_


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## RKQ (18 Oct 2010)

Sorry ONQ I understand your question but I can't really help with your query, alas I don't write the law. (Sometimes I can fall asleep reading it)

The OP can apply to their Local Authority, fee circa €62. This only came into law in late August so we are all on a learning curve, including the L.A's.

At least the mechanism is there to help people like the OP.


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## onq (18 Oct 2010)

No problem RKQ and thanks for responding.

It'll come up again at some point I'm sure and it'll be found.

Mebee I should ask the Minister to explain his draughtsmen's work.


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## onq (19 Oct 2010)

Hi RKQ,

Skimming through the Bill Version of the Planning and Development (Amendment) 2010 Act I found this comment; -

==========

_"Amendment of
*section 42A* of
Principal Act._"

_"29.—*Section 42A* of The Principal Act (inserted by section 238
of the National Asset Management Agency Act 2009) is amended
as follows:"_

==========

So the Planning Act was NAMA'd - 

We really, really, REALLY, need current consolidated versions of all our Acts and Regulations - this way of doing business in bits and pieces is a joke.

ONQ.


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## RKQ (19 Oct 2010)

Hi ONQ, well done on tracking that down. I suppose the fact that the Government wanted to help people like the OP seemed strange. It has happened relatively quickly - in regulation / Bill time terms. So to see NAMA involved makes lots of sense!

I agree fully we really need current consolidated versions of all our Acts and Regulations - this way of doing business in bits and pieces is a joke.


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