# What are the requirements to give grinds or art classes at home?



## inasoup (18 Jan 2013)

Hi,

I have been approached by some of my friends to give grinds and art classes to their children at  my house. Before doing so, I wish to know :
1) Do I need to take permission from some authority before I start giving classes?
2)As I will be teaching children, do I need special mandatory qualification? (To be more specific, as childminders have to undergo some course and register, is there something similar for someone giving grinds?)
3)Do I need to register as a self employed person. If yes, how to do it?
4) Is it mandatory to register it as a business even if I will be earning less than 200E per month? 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## GDUFFY (18 Jan 2013)

I think you will have to be Garda vetted if your working with kids, you should apply ASAP as it can take some time to come back.


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## Sandals (18 Jan 2013)

I looked into this area few years back - mini nightmare to do anything in your home. Any professionals local to me doing classes/grinds have renovated their shed or one built a log cabin. 

It also involves your home insurance policy as there is a clause about your home not being used for anything business like. 

You could check to rent a room/space in the local library. I did art classes last year in a small function room in a pub. Also you could go to their home. 

However where there is a will there is a way (I probably gave up to quickly) so good luck with it. Could you report back if you getting going, may help others.


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## inasoup (18 Jan 2013)

Thanks gduffy and sandals.

sorry for asking so many questions but I want to do things in a proper fashion than regret later. And I really don't have a clue about these things.
1) Garda vetting? Do I have to contact the guards and tell I wish to start classes they will initiate the vetting process? 
2) I live in a rented accommodation. So, will I have to inform the landlord. Also, my friends tell me not to go for all that as they are going to send on their own free will. 
3) I do know many people who give music, dance, keyboard lessons in their house and they told me they never took any permission. Just started it when requested by others. I also know people who operate mini beauty parlors in their homes. Even they told me not to worry and just go ahead. But I do not want to do anything illegal and have the guards knocking at the door.

So is contacting the guards the first step forward?


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## dewdrop (18 Jan 2013)

I admire your attitude to do everything according to the book but you will probably find, as you may suspect already, that there are many issues involved. Perhaps to give the grinds in the parents home might be the easier situation. When one of our kids was young this is what happened and all was fine.


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## wbbs (18 Jan 2013)

Unfortunately the reason most do it without notifying anyone is because it is a minefield if you want to do it right.  Your house insurance for starters goes bananas, however as you are renting that may not be an issue but could be a problem for your landlord.


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## GDUFFY (18 Jan 2013)

Agree its a minefield ! Regards Garda vetting ,http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=36#FAQ2716 
Actually after reading it a little ,I don't think you can apply as an individual.Have a look.

Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission 
http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=36#FAQ2716


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## mathepac (18 Jan 2013)

What about having the parents form a voluntary group, use their houses turn and turn about (or hire a room), have a parent "supervising" the activity (present) and the voluntary group pays you. They can apply for Garda vetting as a voluntary group AFAIK or they can just do the "supervising" with one additional adult (apart from you) present at all times. Just a thought, but not thought through.



GDUFFY said:


> ...  Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission   ...


99 times out 100 I suspect most people would agree, but not where children and their safety is concerned


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## inasoup (19 Jan 2013)

Hi all,

Thank you for the suggestions and advice.
Renting a room is not a financially viable for me as I will be getting paid peanuts compared to the huge fees charged by registered study centers. In fact the parents want to send their children to me as they cannot afford the 75E per subject fee charged by study centers.  I might approach the local library and see. I see advertisements for grinds all over the place. In shopping centers, libraries, banks, churches...does it mean all of them are garda vetted? Someone even told me I need to have some FETAC qualification if I have to handle kids. Is this true? I never asked my children's dance teacher if they had some qualification to handle children. Also how is a dance studio or rented room considered more safe for a kid than in one's own house? I mean they are the same kids who come to my house for sleepovers and my children go to theirs. I don't understand these laws. I am not able to get any information about the qualification I need to have to handle kids (though I wouldn't be physically handling but only teaching them). If anyone has that information, please share it.


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## huskerdu (19 Jan 2013)

I am not aware of any mandatory qualification in order to give grinds. 

However, getting garda vetted is a good idea.  Read the link above and do the paperwork. 

The single most important issue is that you talk to the parents and explain what your qualifications are, and explain where the classes will take place, who else will be there and ask if they have any questions or issues about supervision. 

Either a parent is  happy to allow their child to be in your home under your supervision, or they should accompany their child and wait in another room.


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## GDUFFY (19 Jan 2013)

[/QUOTE]99 times out 100 I suspect most people would agree, but not where children and their safety is concerned[/QUOTE]

This Garda Vetting thing has its flaws too. Many of the peadophiles exposed over the last few decades would have passed a Garda checks with flying colours.
People who immigrated here from a country outside the E.U. are only checked on their Irish history ,any past crimes in their native country are hidden. Unfortunately there are no fool proof protections.
OP I think the suggestion to give grinds in the students home is the best option and saves you all the hassle.


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## Sue Ellen (19 Jan 2013)

There can also be problems with revenue.

The children can and regularly do go AWOL (mitching ) if the grind is not in their own home.  Sometimes daughter's grind class was half empty.  Their grind teacher had such large classes that they only paid on attendance basis whereas a lot have to pay either way.

There are a lot of previous threads on different aspects of grinds so it might be helpful to run the search option on the main page.


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## Leper (25 Jan 2013)

OK, You have received Garda clearance.  Your landlord wont increase your rent (provided everything is kept hush-hush).  You have paying customers who just want that good piece extra helping them on their assault on the Leaving Cert points.  You even have a few adults interested in classes for themselves.  Great! what could go wrong?  

Did I mention Paddy-the-Irishman Syndrome with some neighbours?

1. Begrudgery, the Revenue Commissioners will receive anonymous calls.  You will be visited, but probably assessed as not earning too much, if you are lucky.

2. You've passed the Revenue, but then there is the HSE, have you enough toilets, wash-hand basins for your clients.  You probably will get away with installing one extra toilet because of your small numbers.

3. Local Council might want rates, but can be fairly lenient.

Back to more Begrudgery:- Neighbours bitchin' about cars parked outside their houses. Complaints about forty-three point turns. Moanin' about engine noise. Screamin' about cars parked with two wheels on footpath. Throw in a few more moans about anything you like. [If you think I'm OTT, have a look about a previous series of posts regarding kids playing football in the street].

Still, if I were you, I would go ahead, but tread carefully.


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## Sandals (25 Jan 2013)

inasoup said:


> Hi all,
> Also how is a dance studio or rented room considered more safe for a kid than in one's own house? I mean they are the same kids who come to my house for sleepovers and my children go to theirs.



The main difference is (I think) Insurance. They'd have it. They also have safety procedures, fire evacuation plans etc. As your charging payment if a child fell, hurt themselves using equipment etc you could be open to a claim. 

I know a teacher who takes senior grinds and she gets paid in Tesco vouchers. Similar to childminders who take cash in hand and when they've the child(s) in car parents are aware of the fact if an accident occurred the child is a friend of the family and so covered under the normal car policy.


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## Superman (26 Jan 2013)

You invalidate the landlord's insurance by carrying on a business. I can't imagine a landlord [who realised this] allowing it unless you pay for the new valid insurance. 
As a place of work, a health and safety statement will be required too.


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## inasoup (23 Feb 2013)

Thank you for the replies. Didn't go ahead with it. Maybe will join some study center as an instructor or start my own classes if I win the lotto


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## austria2 (23 Feb 2013)

Its a nice idea to help out friends kids. BUT should anything happen to one of the kids while in your care, the parents might not be so friendly and casual after all! 
The Library wont allow a room to be used for you to make money. I know because I tried! If you were doing it voluntary and free, it would be different. AND then, the library would  want to advertise it on their monthly schedule for all and sundry to avail of. I actually allowed this and discovered there are people who do everything offered free, I mean the SAME people, the library doesn't even care if they are NOT in the age group you volunteered for, nor if they are -say- not beginners, as I had specified. Put me off both volunteering AND the Library forever.
Your landlord would definitely not want a business run from his private rental apartment. check your lease agreement and the PRTB website. And yet you know -we all know, people who give grinds/classes in their private homes all the time without worrying. 
Insurance to protect yourself is important. 
The Revenue website is good as regards registering as a sole trader.They are also helpful on the phone. I think the suggestion that each parent has the group in their own house in turn is the best- that way your place doesn't get paint splashes all over the walls!!---or you don't have to worry about damage to your place.
I also suggest that you charge what everybody else charges per hour,  I'm out of touch nowadays but I heard e30 per hour? but that was a fully qualified teacher and that was 2 years ago.
Above all if you supply Art materials, charge for them as they are very expensive. Photocopying notes is also dear, and let's not mention the issue of copyright! good Luck whatever you decide!


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## PaddyBloggit (23 Feb 2013)

em ..... OP did decide:



inasoup said:


> ....... Didn't go ahead with it.


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