# How do you know the oil man is telling truth?



## Frantheman (3 May 2006)

Wondering if anyone can help with this, I have oil central heating and am wondering is there any way of telling whether you have gotten the amount of oil you are paying for?

The reason I am asking is because a neighbour of mine suggested that he gets his oil at half price because he knows a couple of "rogues" who leave people short? He has told me he will get me a fill also, but alas I have a conscience and cannot do it knowing I may well be stealing from others who have paid.

I know they have a clocking card on the tank, and they clock it at zero and again when the tank is full, but does it work accurately, how do you know.

The last tank full I got was 20euro cheaper than everywhere else and from a different supplier than I usually get, but seems to have run out far quicker than usual, possible paranoia or maybe not!!


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## DOBBER22 (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

Have always wondered about this myself


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## z107 (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

You can get a guage for your oil tank, that runs along the outside. Using this, coupled with some simple calculus, you should be able to determine how much oil you've received.


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## triona (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

We ran out of oil after a few weeks in our new house (first experience with oil central heating!). We used a rough/unscientific method. We got a stick and dipped the tank, before we got a refill, therefore we got the level at which the heating stops. We then got 500L delivered and dipped the tank again. We now have a stick with two marks (~0L and ~500L) - gives a reasonable estimate of the amount in the tank. 

This is of course dependent on the first amount of oil being delivered by an honest company!!

Hope this helps!


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## bertson (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

You should receive a print out from a meter on the lorry.
This tells you how much was delivered.
Unless they have 'doctored' the meter, then you should know


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## ClubMan (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

A dipstick and some basic calculations based on the before and after (delivery) situations should clarify what you have been delivered. I'm not sure that calculus is necessary - simple multiplication should do. Unless you want to work out the rate at which the oil is flowing or something like that. Don't forget that 1 cubic meter = 1,000 litres.


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## penang (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I have fitted a guage that gives a reading inside the house.  The guage fits into the tank and the meter plugs into an ordinary 13amp socket inside the house.


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## Frantheman (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

Thanks all for info, I am getting 500l this week so I will definitely measure before and after depths of tank.

Penang, does your meter tell you how much oil is in the tank? 
I know you can get guages to let you know when tank is nearly empty.


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## penang (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

yep - it goes from 9 ( full) to e (empty)


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## Frantheman (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I know what you are saying, but you still can't tell whether you have been given the requested 500l or whether he is short changing you by 50l?


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## penang (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

correct - sorry.  but i'm sure you can get ones that will tell you.  I got this one from my oil man....


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## ajapale (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I get a printed "ticket" from the meter which shows litres delivered.

I know the larger oil companies rely on the meter for stock control and also to pay commission to the driver on the basis of the amount delivered and the number of deliveries made. The oil companies operate on very tight margins (some times a fraction of a cent per litre) and are very stict on stock control.

I dont imagine there is much scope for fraud with restect to the truck driver.

I think that the meters are calibrated regularily and that the calibration is checked by the NSAI.


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## Joe Nonety (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

The density of kerosene is 817g per litre so 500L should weigh 64 stone. Add another 3 stone for the tank and so a seesaw with 4 big men on one side should balance with the tank.


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## z107 (3 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*



> I'm not sure that calculus is necessary - simple multiplication should do


 
I have an oval type oil tank. These are a bit harder to calibrate.


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## owenm (4 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

The meter on the delivery truck is usually correct, the 'fiddle' is done so;
You order 500L
oilman sets meter to zero, starts pumping into your tank and stops at 450L.
Then takes nozzle and puts it into the truck where they fill the trucks forming a loop - delivering back into the truck for the final 50L. Voila - meter shows 500L but 450 delivered. This is done 5 times giving him 250 L to sell on....


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## Ned_ie (4 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

to sell on at a very nice profit!!!!


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## ClubMan (4 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

Surely the meter does not count backflow? As I have said here and elswhere a simple dipstick test and some basic sums will clarify whether or not you have received the correct amount if you are in doubt and/or paranoid.


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## Ned_ie (4 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

No - not a backflow. The oil flows through the pump along the pipe and into the oil tanker again.


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## ClubMan (4 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

Oh - I see -I missed the bit about the "loop". There's an easy way to spot this so - just watch the bloke filling your tank. If he gets up on the lorry with the hose they you know there's something up! I'd still recommend the dipstick double check if you are not satisfied.


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## glenwalsh (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I have a 1000L oil tank and my ex oil man managed to fit 1300L oil into it even though the tank had some oil (around 200L) in it. You do need to keep an eye on them.


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## bskinti (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

There is a plastic tube with fittings which is fitted onto front of tank and you can see the level of oil in tank always, you can get this off oil supplier, mine cost €30 last year. I put level marks on it as it was filled at 200 L 400L etc I always know whats left and exact amount I get.Anyway the truck meters are calibrated at regular intervals and carries a seal, its the law,Most oil company's sell oil at 1000L at a time but if you ask him to top it up you will get 1150 or 1300Lt's as thies are the normal tanks sold.


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## glenwalsh (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I did ask to have the tank topped up. It had at least 200L in it. My tank according to the manufacturers was a 1000L tank and the maximum it could take was 1050L yet he charged for adding 1300L.


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## Berni (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*



			
				owenm said:
			
		

> The meter on the delivery truck is usually correct, the 'fiddle' is done so;
> You order 500L
> oilman sets meter to zero, starts pumping into your tank and stops at 450L.
> Then takes nozzle and puts it into the truck where they fill the trucks forming a loop - delivering back into the truck for the final 50L. Voila - meter shows 500L but 450 delivered. This is done 5 times giving him 250 L to sell on....



So how does he then get the 250L out of the tanker without triggering the meter again?


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## owenm (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

The meter readings only have a discrete importance, i.e. to each customer on your delivery docket and may not be monitored by the company even if this was possible; i.e. if someone has contaminated oil to be removed or a tank has to be moved these trucks are often used as temporary stores so their is plenty of scope for pumping oil in excess of 'stock' oil drawn from a depot...


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## ted (5 May 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I wouldn't allow them to deliver without being there. Supervise the delivery. Always ask for an amount in litres not Euro and confirm the cost per litre when ordering. Should help to minimise problems.


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## Pennyscraper (9 Aug 2006)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*



			
				bertson said:
			
		

> You should receive a print out from a meter on the lorry.
> This tells you how much was delivered.
> Unless they have 'doctored' the meter, then you should know



That's true, but sometimes even the good companies have meters that go out of calibration a little so on a full fill you could be up or down 20 litres. eg with our roads , you can get a jolt and suddenly you are either gifted 20 litres of oil or you are actually down that much per 1000 litres. This happened to me and herself a few years back and we called a friend in weights and measures who verified this. The best way is your own sight gauge cos prices change so much that its impossible to go by value for money perceptions. Incidentally, it could not hurt to register with myhothouse.ie. I did 2 years ago and at the time they didnt' proceed with their business but did get me oil €20 cheaper for registering. Now that its back online, I've registered again, no sign of cheaperheatingoil being active again, does anyone know, I've tried emailing them but nothing


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## Pennyscraper (4 Oct 2007)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

Incidentally, it could not hurt to register with myhothouse.ie. I did 2 years ago and at the time they didnt' proceed with their business but did get me oil €20 cheaper for registering. Now that its back online, I've registered again, no sign of cheaperheatingoil being active again, does anyone know, I've tried emailing them but nothing[/quote]

Well, now this is interesting! www.cheaperheatingoil.ie is back up but it brings you to www.myhothouse.ie! On Boards.ie, some guy said that he'd rang Texoil and Cheaperheatingoil before and they were one and the same. So this MyHothouse.ie must be something to do with Texoil. It did say on the site somewhere that there's a big brand involved. I re reg'd in the hope of a cheaper Chrismtas  Scraping the pennies together!


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## steph1 (4 Oct 2007)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*



ted said:


> I wouldn't allow them to deliver without being there. Supervise the delivery. Always ask for an amount in litres not Euro and confirm the cost per litre when ordering. Should help to minimise problems.



I always like to be there when they deliver especially as I have my side entrance locked.  

On a number of occasions when ordering from the company on the phone I have asked them to tell the guy to ring me when he is on the way but they never do.  

Always ask for the printed receipt.


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## ted (7 Oct 2007)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*



triona said:


> We ran out of oil after a few weeks in our new house (first experience with oil central heating!). We used a rough/unscientific method. We got a stick and dipped the tank, before we got a refill, therefore we got the level at which the heating stops....


 
The problem with this method is you have to run the system until it runs out - you've no heating while waiting for a delivery and when you do you have to bleed the boiler. My Firebird manual says that if you have to manually start the pump more than twice you could do damage and to use a hand pump instead - now that's a lot of bother.


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## Lao (13 Oct 2007)

Hey,

It's simple.

1. You get a gauge on your tank.

2. It has one reading before he fills it and another reading after he fills it.

The difference is that which he put in your tank  


Lao.


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## stir crazy (13 Oct 2007)

Lao said:


> Hey,
> 
> It's simple.
> 
> ...



Pure genius I tells ya !


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## ang1170 (13 Oct 2007)

Unfortunately, not so simple.

How do you know your gauge is acurate? chances are it won't be.

Better than nothing, I'd agree, but don't assume it's anything about its acuracy.


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## stir crazy (13 Oct 2007)

ang1170 said:


> Unfortunately, not so simple.
> 
> How do you know your gauge is acurate? chances are it won't be.
> 
> Better than nothing, I'd agree, but don't assume it's anything about its acuracy.



how do we know anything ? how do we know the oil tank doesnt have a leak.

I'd say  make sure you have a properly functioning gauge. why do you say the chances are against this ?


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## taxi (13 Oct 2007)

As stated all lorries have a meter which prints out the amount of fuel deliverd, any delivery must be metered off and they must be able to account for the meter movement on their lorry. They start the day with a meter reading and all sales must total the opening read plus their sales to give a closing read and have dockets to match aswell. even though your tank may say 1000ltrs most of them will hold a bit extra as much as 100-200 ltrs. If you are using your heating in the evening it is more economical to leave it running for a few hours rather than have it kicking in and out as this uses more oil.

I'm sure there are some dodgy delivery men out there but they will be caught eventually and remember if you're not happy shop around and take your business elsewhere.


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## ang1170 (14 Oct 2007)

stir crazy said:


> how do we know anything ? how do we know the oil tank doesnt have a leak.
> 
> I'd say make sure you have a properly functioning gauge. why do you say the chances are against this ?


 
Because gauges sold in retail environments that aren't subject to regular calibration are notoriously inacurate. It's quite expensive to engineer a gauge going into an unknown, uncalibrated enviorment properly, so I doubt any being sold at a reasonable price would be that acurate.

Having said that, it is better than nothing, but don't expect it to give an acurate reading down to the nearest 10 or 20 litres.


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## Anatoli Curran (7 Feb 2017)

Hello All,


Just wanted to share my situation that just happened to us the other day. This is our second time we have ordered oil from one of the oil companies (i.e. a family run home heating oil business, who deliver in all areas in Co Wexford, South Kilkenny, South Carlow, Waterford City and Tramore) and the first time we got delivered the amount we had ordered. So, we have decided to go again with them.

However, the other day I ordered 370 litres of oil from them. We weren’t at home, so I have left the gate and the tank open for the delivery man to be able to deliver the oil and to leave the docket in the letter box (which we were doing all these years without any issues). However, this time only 320 litres went to my tank, but on the receipt docket it clearly indicated 370 litres of oil was delivered.

I have an Apollo tank gauge for over 5 years now (its battery usually lasts for approximately 5 years, and in my case, its battery was replaced last year). Until my last order, for the past years I had no issues from any other oil company and I always received the amount that was ordered. However, this time 50 litres of oil went missing. I rang the driver that evening, he said “probably the Apollo tank gauge is faulty or something” and asked me to ring the office in the morning, which I did. Got through to the reception and after she heard my complaint, she couldn’t provide me any feedback and redirected me to her manager.
The manager told me that the Apollo tank gauge could show the wrong info if the battery was dying, which in my situation this is not the case.
Then she mentioned that sometimes it takes several days for the receiving device (i.e. a device which is in the house receiving and indicating the info of the usage per day/week/month/year and how much is currently in the tank) to update the info. Overnight nothing changed and after re-syncing the transmitter with the receiver (just in case), it still indicated to me that I have -50 litres of oil to what I was supposed to have.

Before I ordered the oil we had 114 litres left in the tank. OK, that evening I had the heating on a timer for an hour before we came home, so just let’s say I’ve used a couple of litres of oil out of this.
That evening, after receiving the oil, when I checked the indication, it shown me 420litres left, whereas this should be around 470L (or slightly more). So, the fact is that only around 320 out of 370L went into my tank.

The manager couldn’t explain were these 50l of oil went and all she was saying that based on the printed docket, the machine pumped out 370 litres of oil (of course).


So, I don’t want to say I am blaming the company for “stealing” the oil, but just want to advise you to make sure you are at home when you are expecting to get your oil delivered, as otherwise you may experience the situation like us and nothing can be done about this then. This is a lesson for us and in the future I will be standing outside beside the delivery man and make sure every drop of my ordered (and paid for) amount of oil gets into my tank and won’t “magically” disappear “somewhere” else


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## elcato (7 Feb 2017)

Check the time of starting and finishing on the docket. It should be done fairly quickly but I guess if he was quick and removed the tube from your tank and then stuck it into the top of the tanker again it would show much time between them. Any chance you have an old receipt to compare the time taken to fill the tank ?


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## Sue Ellen (7 Feb 2017)

Anatoli Curran said:


> Hello All,
> 
> We weren’t at home, so I have left the gate and the tank open for the delivery man to be able to deliver the oil



You have no way of knowing also if someone else took 50l of oil from the open tank.  Oil is being stolen all over the country.  Might have thought that you wouldn't miss such a small amount.  Quite a number of our neighbours had their oil stolen in a busy housing estate.


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## Creaky Bones (11 Feb 2017)

*Re: How do you know the oil man is telling truth??*

I asked the delivery man ''How do I know I'm getting 500l as ordered''. He said the hose on the tanker is always full, the clock on the tanker is set at zero, he tapps in 500l, puts the hose in your tank and releases the lock on the hose and when you get your 500l it stops. He then goes back to the tanker where he set the clock and tears off the invoice which states that it started at 000l and finished at 500l. He said no reputable company would try to deceive their customers. But I suppose there are always cowboys out there!


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## PaddyBloggit (11 Feb 2017)

Creaky Bones said:


> He said no reputable company would try to deceive their customers.



+1 to that.

Order from a reputable company and you can be sure you'll get what you ordered.


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## cremeegg (12 Feb 2017)

While I dont like to be too cynical about these things. Reputable companies are as likely as any other to be involved in shady business practices. In a one person company you only need one person to be honest, whereas in a large business any level of manager can push their underlings to do wrong.

Here is how a large number of reputable oil companies cheated their customers in Connaught.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/galway-oil-cartel-enforcer-was-prime-mover-1.1026360


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## PaddyBloggit (12 Feb 2017)

You could say the same about getting fuel for your car at the pump?

How do I know I'm actually getting a litre or ... ?

Like all walks of life, we are always open to being scammed.

We can only do so much to protect ourselves. Going with a reputable company is the best that can be done in this situation.

Me .... I go with a reputable company, nut I'm always there to accept delivery (after work or on a Saturday) and I can see what the clock says before and after.

Other than that I can do no more.


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## cremeegg (12 Feb 2017)

PaddyBloggit said:


> You could say the same about getting fuel for your car at the pump?



As an aside, petrol pumps are calibrated at 15 C. So that if you buy it when the temp is lower you will actually get slightly more than it says on the display.


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## noproblem (12 Feb 2017)

cremeegg said:


> While I dont like to be too cynical about these things. Reputable companies are as likely as any other to be involved in shady business practices. In a one person company you only need one person to be honest, whereas in a large business any level of manager can push their underlings to do wrong.
> 
> Here is how a large number of reputable oil companies cheated their customers in Connaught.
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/business/galway-oil-cartel-enforcer-was-prime-mover-1.1026360



That was really shocking and Mr L got off really light. I'm astonished no one in the media or anywhere else didn't question why that sentence was so light. My goodness the courts are giving prison sentences for no TV licences. The mind boggles.


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## roker (15 Feb 2017)

The meter is calibrated and sealed, but I always wonder if they start off with a full hose when delivery commences.
I made a wood measuring stick and devided the full tank by 1100 litres which is the full capacity of the tank, I sawed marks in at 100 litre graduations


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## dub_nerd (15 Feb 2017)

noproblem said:


> That was really shocking and Mr L got off really light. I'm astonished no one in the media or anywhere else didn't question why that sentence was so light. My goodness the courts are giving prison sentences for no TV licences. The mind boggles.


+1. The suggestion is that it could have been 10% of the market for 20 years, running to tens of millions of euro stolen. In a certain jurisdiction on the other side of the Atlantic they'd lock you up and throw away the key for that. Here we don't even try to take the money back!


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## roker (12 Oct 2017)

There is an unaccounted amount in the pipe from the tanker to your oil tank, if is full when he starts filling and full when he has finished OK, but if it is empty when he starts filling you lose this amount


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