# What world leader do you most admire and why.



## Purple (3 Jul 2009)

What it says; who and why.
With so much contempt for leaders in Ireland and across the world is there any world leader that anyone on AAM still admires?


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## room305 (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Purple said:


> What it says; who and why.
> With so much contempt for leaders in Ireland and across the world is there any world leader that anyone on AAM still admires?



Do they have to be alive and/or currently in power?


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## mathepac (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Purple said:


> ... With so much contempt for leaders in Ireland ...


If you mean the clique of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers I have to say I admire them greatly; its the greatest collection of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers any small nation has ever assembled.


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## Purple (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



room305 said:


> Do they have to be alive and/or currently in power?



Alive.


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## DrMoriarty (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Silvio Berlusconi. Obvious, really!


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## mf1 (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



mathepac said:


> If you mean the clique of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers I have to say I admire them greatly; its the greatest collection of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers any small nation has ever assembled.



You mean the ones that we as a nation have consistently voted for? 
What does it say about the electorate then? 

mf


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## mf1 (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

And in answer to the question ( rising quickly above the parapet and as quickly back down again!) Barack Obama

mf


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## Purple (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



mathepac said:


> If you mean the clique of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers I have to say I admire them greatly; its the greatest collection of cute hoors, gombeen men, mé féiners, crooks, thieves and back-stabbers any small nation has ever assembled.


I suppose that's what I was getting at; there are far more corrupt governments in the developed world and many with the blood of thousands of innocent men women and children on their hands (and in the case of France hundreds of thousands) yet we think our lot is the worst... strange.


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## Chocks away (4 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Ronald McDonald consistantly produces the goods . Ask Morgan Spurlock.


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## Madangan (5 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Amiration may be too strong but Angela Merkel seems very competent, not a populist but seems to keep  her head down and gets on with the job 

That said I am no expert on german politics!

However she compares favourably,as far as I know, to the following:

Brian Cowen 
Gordon Brown
Silvio Berlusconi  ( although he is great for a laugh)
Nicolas Sarkozy ( who for some reason makes my skin crawl)
Most african leaders (although Im sure there must be good ones about whom we never hear..possibly the lady now in charge of sierra leone)

Obama may well be a  very good leader but its too early to tell-certainly in terms of foreign policy- he has made some  good decisions -but he is benefitting from succeeding probalby the worst leader of a western developed nation since world war two so if  he just sat in the WH twiddling his thumbs he would be a massive improvement. The concern with Obama is that economically he is throwing so much money at  so many problems the worry is it will all end in disaster.  I hope not.

I know very little about most leaders of the following countries;

canada, australia, new zealand, most of south america, most of asia so I cannot compare so


Yup my vote is for Angie!


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## Madangan (5 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Purple said:


> I suppose that's what I was getting at; there are far more corrupt governments in the developed world and many with the blood of thousands of innocent men women and children on their hands (and in the case of France hundreds of thousands) yet we think our lot is the worst... strange.


 

What did France do??? Did I not get the Memo?


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## Purple (5 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Madangan said:


> What did France do??? Did I not get the Memo?



They did everything they could to support the murder of 800'000 people in Rwanda.

This report is the opinion of the Rwandan government.

This is from 1999.
Lieutenant General Roméo Dallaire was the head of UN forces in Rwanda in 1994 and he has been scathing of France. He describes it is harrowing detail in his book "Shake hands with the Devil".
[broken link removed] from Global Policy Forum (they monitor the UN but I know very little about them or their biases) shows the complicity between the Francophile head of the UN at the time and the French government. They are by no means the only people shouting about this.

The bottom line is that the Genocide, which had been meticulously planned for years, kicked off when President Juvenal Habyarimana's plane was shot down. The plane was a present from the French government, crewed by three French secret service agents. The French never carried out an enquiry even though three of it's citizens were killed. The rocket is said to have been Iraqi, confiscated by the French four years earlier during Desert Storm. 

Up to 700 French special forces were on the ground fighting with the genocidal forces against the RPA (the guys trying to stop the genocide). When they were beaten back they then sent in thousands of men under the pretext of a humanitarian mission. The real mission was to allow the genocidal forces to regroup. This happened in Goma in what was then Zaire and resulted in tens of thousands more women and children being murdered in Rwanda, the destabilisation of the Great Lakes region and the Congolese civil war (the biggest was since the Second World War).

The USA is by no means clean when it comes to Rwanda (anyone remember Madanile Albright and the State department dancing around the word “Genocide” with “Acts of Genocide” so that they would not have to act on the 1948 genocide convention?) and the UK were not much better but the French were proactive in the killing.

Here I have to admit my bias; over a number of year reading about these event I have grown to admire Paul Kagame, leader of the RPA and now President of Rwanda, more than any modern political or military leader. He is by no means perfect but not only has he performed an economic and social miracle as a politician, as a general he was probably the greatest practitioner of manoeuvre warfare of the last 100 years. My favourite book about him is "A Thousand Hills  by Stephen Kinzer.


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## Madangan (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Ok I'll read the links but in a nutshell in your opinion what was in it for the French...


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## Mpsox (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

I'm struggling to think of a world leader but having seen Brian Crowley on the telly on Saturday night, you have to admire the way he has got on with life after his accident.


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## Purple (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Madangan said:


> Ok I'll read the links but in a nutshell in your opinion what was in it for the French...



The maintenance of their sphere of influence in West Africa. 

The RPA was made up mainly of Tutsis (and the children of Tutsis) who had fled to Uganda in the 1950’s after the Belgians turned their back on their  allies during Rwandan independence. Uganda is an ally of the US and English is the main foreign language spoken there.  When President  Yoweri Museveni of Uganda was fighting against Idi Amin the Tutsi refugees made up a large part of his army (Kigami was head of intelligence) so the RPA was heavily supported by Uganda.
France did not want Rwanda to fall into the Anglo-American sphere of influence and didn’t care how much blood was spilled to keep it Francophile. This was not the first time France showed its willingness to spill blood to  keep its influence in an African state; they were happy to resist Algerian independence in the 1950’s in a war that cost over half a million lives.

The Tutsi minority had made up the ruling class for centuries. In pre-colonial times they ruled by consent with “Hutu” and “Tutsi” being social and political terms as much an Ethnic groupings but under the Belgians (the same guys that killed over a million people in Congo when King Leopold II raped the country) the Tutsi rulers became brutal and oppressive. The Hutu leaders used the fear of a return to that Tutsi rule to whip up hatred against the Tutsis over years, sowing the seeds of genocide. The French were aware of this and actively supported those involved.


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## room305 (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

He's not perfect by any stretch but I have a lot of admiration for Mikheil Saakashvili, the President of Georgia.


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## corkgal (7 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Obama seems to be doing the decent thing, closing the detainment centers and working on the foreign policy with the middle east.


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

_Purple_, I think this would be more exciting as a tournament. I set out the Quarter Finals below. Rules: first to reach 3 votes wins QF. First to 5 for SF and first to 7 for Final.

QF1 Obama (1 my vote) v Mendelev
QF2 Sarkozy (1) v Brown
QF3 Merkel (1) v Berlusconni
QF4 The Pope (1) v Ahmaninejad

_Betting:_

_Evens Obama, 5/1 the Pope, 7/1 Merkel, 10/1 Sarkozy, 16/1 Brown, 20/1 Berlusconni, 100/1 Ahmaninejad & Mendelev_


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## Madangan (8 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

My votes are with the Dukes save that Brown beats Sarkozy


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## VOR (8 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



corkgal said:


> Obama seems to be doing the decent thing, closing the detainment centers and working on the foreign policy with the middle east.


 
You obviously haven't heard of his _Indefinite Detention Without Trial_ whereby people will be held without trial because the President _thinks_ they carried out a crime but has no way of proving it in a court or _thinks_ they may carry out a crime in the future.

_Friday May 22, Washington Post. Also in Sunday Times on May 24th_. 
"We are going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country," Obama said. 
"But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States." 
"If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight." He pledged to work with Congress to come up with an "appropriate legal regime" that is "consistent with our values and our Constitution."


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## joe sod (27 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

i think angela merkel is one of the most impressive today, she is hard working , intelligent, accomplished, understated, no ego, polite and hospitable, she is also elegant in her own way without over doing it with over the top outfits.


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## cork (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



corkgal said:


> Obama seems to be doing the decent thing, closing the detainment centers and working on the foreign policy with the middle east.


 
US unemployment figures have risen.
US government spending has massively gone up.

Ombama has been disappointing.

If Cowen can implement the MC Carthy report and reform the public sector - I'd give him the tumbs up.


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## ninsaga (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*

Bill Clinton - admire his involvement in the peace process (also gotta admire the goings on!)
Tony Blair - likewise (peace process that is)


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## TarfHead (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



corkgal said:


> Obama seems to be doing the decent thing ..


 
In general, yes, but has had some moments that make me think '_Tool !_'.

- his involvement in the Henry Louis Gates incident
- telling a Pakistani journalist that he reads Urdu poetry
- snippy behaviour to the White House correspondents


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## Caveat (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



TarfHead said:


> telling a Pakistani journalist that he reads Urdu poetry


 
What's so bad about that - is it that you don't believe him?


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## TarfHead (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



Caveat said:


> .. is it that you don't believe him?


 
Seemed to me like he was spoofing, or that his aides had provided him with some talking points about 'Urdu poetry'.


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## VOR (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



TarfHead said:


> - snippy behaviour to the White House correspondents


 
I noticed that last Friday. He walked in to the room and bellowed "SIT DOWN". Very cross looking.


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## cork (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: What world leader to you most admire and why.*



VOR said:


> I noticed that last Friday. He walked in to the room and bellowed "SIT DOWN". Very cross looking.


 
His honeymoon is over and he now has to deliver.

The US economy is in a right mess.

Obama's stimulus packages have not worked.


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## DublinTexas (28 Jul 2009)

Bill Gates - he made money out of nothing (i.e. an OS that he licensed from another company and then further developed).

He shares his wealth in a considerable fashion like €28.7m to Irish aid agency Concern to help fight spiralling baby and mother death rates in developing countries.

Take that Bono with your €5 over 6 years while avoiding paying tax in Ireland but reaping in the money from your Irish fans.


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## ringledman (29 Jul 2009)

*Chilean finance minister, Andres Velasco*

[broken link removed]


"You save in times of abundance, and you invest in lean times." But there's a problem. It might be straightforward, but during the good times, it's not popular. Being tight with public money is not something that voters tend to appreciate, especially not the special interest groups who are always keen to soak the government and other taxpayers for all they can get. As late as last November, reports Bloomberg, government workers were striking for higher wages and burning Velasco's effigy in the Chilean capital Santiago. 
Of course, now that the money is available and being used for "tax cuts, subsidies and cash handouts to poor families," at a time when the rest of the world is panicking about debt levels, Mr Velasco is very popular indeed. But getting to that point takes the kind of guts, conviction, and elephant-like hide that Western politicians and central bankers seem to lack.


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## Purple (26 Jan 2012)

I was wondering what people here thought about Angela Merkel and remembered this thread where many people thought she was great. I wonder if she's still quite so popular?


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## One (1 Feb 2012)

Nelson Mandela has to be admired I think. I don't follow American politics enough to know too much about Barack Obama but he seems to have some good ideas. I admire Bill Gates, he is not a political world leader, but he is a great world figure in many ways. I know that this question was only about those people that are alive, but I want to mention some of those who have died, such as Daniel O'Connell, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King.


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## One (1 Feb 2012)

DublinTexas said:


> Bill Gates - he made money out of nothing (i.e. an OS that he licensed from another company and then further developed).
> 
> He shares his wealth in a considerable fashion like €28.7m to Irish aid agency Concern to help fight spiralling baby and mother death rates in developing countries.
> 
> Take that Bono with your €5 over 6 years while avoiding paying tax in Ireland but reaping in the money from your Irish fans.


 
Bill Gates has placed Microsoft in Ireland and does so because of our genourous corporation tax. He therefore reduces the amount of money he pays to the United States revenue, although he still pays tax in America. He must still run a profitable company in a recession in a difficult competitive market as he has a duty to his employees and shareholders and family. He then helps poor people and donates money to charity. He is applauded for this.

Bono has placed U2 in Holland and does so because of the genourous Dutch artists' tax. He therefore reduces the amount of money he pays to the Irish revenue, although he still pays tax in Ireland. He must still run a profitable company in a recession in a difficult competitive market as he has a duty to his employees and shareholders and family. He then helps poor people and donates money to charity. Some people applaud him for this. Some people call him a hypocrite. Personally I greatly admire him (as I do Bill Gates).

Sorry to the OP for changing the subject. Hopefully it would detract from the main subject.


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## The_Banker (1 Feb 2012)

Truthfully I cant think of a world leader I admire… If there is anyone I admire now it is Bob Geldof. Not because of the whole Band Aid or Live Aid charities or his music which I though was poor but for something he did and said back in either 1979 or 80.

He appeared on the Late Late Show and berated Ireland. He said on live TV that its people were under the thumb of the church and we were nothing more than a priest ridden society. He was berated from the audience by a nun and he put her in her place by telling her she had an easy life, abdicating responsibility so that she could worship a God in relative comfort. He said the real heroes were the mothers of Ireland who were struggling to bring up 5 or 6 children in poverty while the religious orders in Ireland led a life of ease. 

This was considered an outrageous outburst in an Ireland that was still glowing in the aftermath of the visit of JPII. 

It was a brave man who would make that kind of statement at that time in Ireland and in the fullness of time he has been proved correct.


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## One (2 Feb 2012)

ringledman said:


> *Chilean finance minister, Andres Velasco*
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> ...


 
Well said.


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