# MBA UCD, Trinity :any forum of discussion for either or both courses on the web?



## dol2k101 (16 Jun 2008)

hi,
i am thinking of doing an mba in either ucd or tcd - 
is there any forum of discussion for either or both courses on the web. 
i can't find anything... 
they're own websites seem to adopt a 'sell sell sell' approach, rather than giving any insights into what people who are doing it/have done it, think. 
(i want a critical viewpoint, plusses, minuses, etc. -)

also, how do ppl afford it - its the guts of 30k. 
is it all on loans?

thanks in advance
dol2k101


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## Shiraz (18 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*

Hi,

I cant help you with a discussion forum, but would also be interested if anyone knows one, since I`m also thinking of doing the MBA in Smurfits, starting this sep.

As regards funding, a lot of people get company sponsorship, but a possible downside, is that you generally have to stay with the company for a few years after completing the course, or else pay the fees back.

You dont have to pay the 30k all upfront. First you pay the 1.5k booking deposit, and then 9k is due by Sep I think, and then a further amount in January (I dont know the details, but its certainly not all one lump sum).

There are also scholarships you can apply for - the Smurfit MBA has details on its website. The Irish Times offer have a scholarship, but the deadline has passed for 2008 entry.
Also some banks will offer loans especially for the MBAs. More details are on the MBA websites.

If you are thinking of starting this sep, you would need to get going with the application pack, since deadlines are coming up (if not already passed).

Cheers,
Shiraz.


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## Heybabyy (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*

Unfortunately these 2 are the only available options in the country. 30K is lot of money but it also require extensive dedication, efforts, committments and sacrifices that one has to make while doing the course. The question is - does it pay off in the end?? The answer is NO. 

I am currently doing MBA from there.

Course content: Some of the faculties were good but then some of the externally hired faculties were C grade. We have made complaints but they have fallen to deaf ears. Yes, MBA is a sort of sell,sell for these institutes. 

Ranking: Both Trinity and Smurfit have fallen in international rankings and they don't seem to doing anything to improve that. 

Job placement: None of them offer a job guarantee so don't expect any campus placements. The placement office is there but it is good for nothing. Moreover, in Ireland the companies/job agencies give more stress on experience rather than the degree. 

GMAT score- they say 550 is norm but I know few incompetent people who even got into the college with 450 on the basis of their 25 yrs work experience.  And the same guys struggled in group assignments.

If you can leave the country, then I would recommend doing it from UK(with average GMAT score) or Insead (France) - if you can get into it. 

Send me a pm if you need any specific details.


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## enoxy (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*



Heybabyy said:


> . .
> 
> If you can leave the country, then I would recommend doing it from UK(with average GMAT score) or Insead (France) - if you can get into it.
> 
> Did mine in Strathclyde Graduate Business School and found it good.  However a lot of the MBA benefits is what you put into it. The way I look at it, if the lecturers were really that good would they not be making millions out in 'the real world' instead of lecturing. Best approach is to figure out what you want out of MBA, in my case it was a qualification to assist me to get into consulting. A lot of MBA students reckon it will be a passport to a six figure salary but it's not that simple in reality.


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## tyrekicker (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*

Smurfit in UCD is considered Ireland's best MBA school:
[broken link removed]

But I agree with enoxy, an MBA only gives you  back what you put into it. 
I just completed a corporate MBA in UL, and there's no sign of my employer doubling my salary!


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## Heybabyy (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*

Open your eyes folks, it may be Ireland's best college but the question is where does it stand in terms of international rankings. 

See http://www.ft.com/businesseducation/mba

Click on "Executive MBA" and yes you will see the best college in Ireland struggling at number 88 in EMBA and 98 in MBA (see the drop in last 3 years). 


EMBA rankingsSchool nameUniversity College Dublin: SmurfitRankings at a glanceCurrent rank88Rank 2006[1]48Rank 2005[1]63Country[1]IrelandProgramme name[1]Executive MBACareer progressSalary today (US$)116,340Salary increase (%)47Career progress rank78Work experience rank59Aims achieved rank88School diversityWomen faculty (%)29Women students (%)27Women board (%)14International faculty (%)34International students rank48International board (%)55International course experience rank71Languages1Idea generationFaculty with doctorates (%)91FT doctoral rank65FT research rank83

******************************************
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Global MBA RankingsSchool nameUniversity College Dublin: SmurfitRankings at a glanceRank in 200898Rank in 200798Rank in 2006893 year average rank95CountryIrelandAudit year[1]2007Alumni career progressSalary today ($)101,730Weighted salary (US$)101,730Salary percentage increase70Value for money rank14Career progress rank36Aims achieved rank95Placement success rank90Employed at three months (%)97 (97)Alumni recommend rank87DiversityWomen faculty (%)29Women students (%)31Women board (%)16International faculty (%)34International students (%)54International board (%)55International mobility rank12International experience rank30Languages[2]0[2]Idea generationFaculty with doctorates (%)91FT doctoral rank74FT research rank92


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## dol2k101 (30 Jun 2008)

*Re: Mba*



Heybabyy said:


> "I am currently doing MBA from there.
> 
> Course content: Some of the faculties were good but then some of the externally hired faculties were C grade. We have made complaints but they have fallen to deaf ears. Yes, MBA is a sort of sell,sell for these institutes. "
> 
> ...


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## warnerbottom (6 Jul 2008)

*Re: Mba*

hi guys. 

The imi are doing an MBA in conjunction with Henley in the uk. Ranks about 13 tv in the economist charts. Its part distance learning and part lectures in the imi.


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## delanest (20 Jan 2009)

Can I try and bring this thread back on track, i.e. does anyone have any info in options for funding for MBA aside from Loans or Company sponsorship?


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## agencydude (20 Jan 2009)

Well I was reading the Irish Times last friday and it says if you buy the irish Times on the 23rd January you can enter a competition to win an MBA scholarship worth €30k


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## Bob the slob (21 Jan 2009)

Smurfit do a scholarship based on a score of 700 or over in the GMAT.  Well woth a look, they pay half your fees if you are successful.


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## themaddy2002 (12 May 2009)

dol2k101 said:


> hi,
> i am thinking of doing an mba in either ucd or tcd -
> is there any forum of discussion for either or both courses on the web.
> i can't find anything...
> ...




Being a Trinity College Dublin MBA student, I simply wont recommend doing MBA from TCD, in case you are not planning to start your own company. The TCD Career Advisory Service does not cooperates with any placements for MBAs and the most probably MBA management does not want you to go back to jobs, but rather create jobs by starting your own enterprise.

Furthermore, the on contract faculty from IMI is totally rubbish. Even the two Corporate Finance professors have been continuously questioned by MBA students for their own knowledgebase.

USA is USA & MBA matters & is respected there...Maximum Irish employers dont manage to get MBA themselves & hence dont pay you for the same.

If it is an MBA & € 30K, rather spend it wisely & may be even in Michael Smurfit than on Trinity...


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## Mommah (12 May 2009)

delanest said:


> Can I try and bring this thread back on track, i.e. does anyone have any info in options for funding for MBA aside from Loans or Company sponsorship?


I did the Smurfit MBA 15 years ago.
I funded it myself.
75% I saved and 25 % I borrowed. (that included living expenses)
I got my place first and then I went abroad to work in a high paying country (do they exist anymore??) and lived frugally.
Then came back and did the MBA.

An MBA is expensive. But for me it was worth every penny.
It gave me a 10 yr advantage over my peers.

I come from a science background all the way back to secondary school. The knowledge I gained from my lecturers, my fellow students and from my studies was all new territory for me and extremely useful right up to the present day.

Not because of any elite badge but because it made me a MUCH better manager in my very technical arena. I didn't change careers but did rise in the ranks.

If you already come from a business or accountancy background I would hesitate to spend the money on an MBA. But if you are from an engineering/science/technical background I would recommend it highly.

I think complaining about facilities is a bit juvenile.
An MBA should really be a think-tank which could be conducted effectively in a cow-byre.

Dismissing lecturers with a "those-who-can-do" is also silly.
Theory and practice in any field are often too far apart. Lecturers in any field are experts in the theory of their subject, but often weak on the practical application. That's it...so use them to unlock the theories.
But by understanding sound theory better we can become better practitioners.

Personally I have no criticism of the Smurfit programme, but it was a long time ago.


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## jrewing (12 May 2009)

Have you considered doing any of the distance learning MBAs? This allows you to continue working to pay the fees.
There are a number of options in the UK. I'm doing one in Manchester Business School, and it will cost about Eur 20k over 3 yrs. I travel over for a week per semester for workshops.
I agree with a previous poster who stated that the MBA qualification should not be regarded as an automatic ticket to a six-figure salary.


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## themaddy2002 (27 Jun 2009)

Would it be fair to say that an MBA from a US Business School can ACTUALLY fetch great raises to your post-MBA salary, as compared to your Irish MBA, especially from Trinity College Dublin?

Is anyone aware of a single MBA student from Trinity MBA 2009 class, who has managed to gain employment because of his or her MBA? Or would it be fair to say that they 'might' gain any employment at all in the field of their previous jobs, in case they are already good enough professionals (such as Chartered Accountants) and not some generalists.

Perhaps, for MBAs from Trinity College Dublin, MBA now has been limited to Mediocre But Arrogant in expansion...


-Maddy


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## MUAL (6 Jul 2009)

Hi all

A very interesting discussion going on here and I'd welcome your views

I'm yet another one thinking of an MBA in September and the thought of spending 30k on it is scary

I have a business degree already and am wondering if the cost will be justified

Is an MBS/MSc just as good

At this stage of my career I can specialise but do employers think that this qualification is inferior


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## jp2009 (7 Jul 2009)

Hi,

I am also thinking of doing an MBA in Trinity in September and to read some of these comments from students who are supposedly in this years class is really disheartening. Are there any students in this years class with positive comments about the course? I met some of the class at a recent open evening and also when I sat in on a lecture and everyone was very positive. I am therefore very surprised by the negative comments in this forum. Also does anyone have any information on the number of people from the 2009 class that have secured jobs yet?


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## H2009 (27 Jul 2009)

Hi all,

I hope this will be of some help. i am currently completing my MBA in Trinity, and I have no regrets about choosing Ireland or Trinity as my place to study. When it comes to financing of the MBA, the people on the course did so in many different ways, some through loans, some through savings, some with their redundancy monies etc, there is no simple answer as to how people fund it. It should be noted that you can claim back the tax on the fees which works out at approximately 6,000 euro which is a significant rebate.

When choosing between UCD and Trinity there are a few factors to consider. One is location, Trinity is in the centre of Dublin and therefore is surrounded by better amenities, however renting in the city is more expensive than renting out in the suburbs near Smurfit college.

If you plan on working in Ireland after the MBA then there really is little difference in how your MBA will be perceived by prospective employers here. However if you are planning on working in the UK or in the US and Europe, the Trinity College brand is more internationally recognised (with Trinity currently ranked 49th in the World as a university - although not for their MBA but rather for the institution overall).

When it comes to finding a job after your MBA, it is a difficult world out there, however a number of people on the course have already secured employment (one student has actually left the country and the course early and is completing the last month of the MBA remotely from Europe). The career advisory service is not a huge help (that said i do not know of anyone who has approached them for help), however the MBA alumni actively help students to secure interviews whenever wherever they can. Students need to be proactive however as jobs are not falling into anyone's laps at the moment. 

The standard of lecturers overall has been superb, in particular in relation to strategy (which is the main subject running through any MBA).

30K may seem expensive for an MBA but by international standards it is actually very reasonable, and you should should try and see it as a long-term investment!

I was highly surprised to see a post by someone claiming to be in this year's MBA class saying that they did not recommend it, they have obviously had a very different experience to the vast majority of the class, and as one poster stated above you only get from the MBA what you put in, and believe me it is a hard slog, with late nights and weekends, but overall the challenge is extremely rewarding.


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## Rebel1979 (28 Jul 2009)

Hello,

I recently stumbled upon this thread and found the subject interesting.  Though I cannot say with any certainty the advantages and disadvantages that prevail in the Smurfit MBA;  I like H2009 and TheMaddy2002 am a member of the Trinity MBA class of 2009.  I can also admit that I am not Irish; I am an American and had the chance to investigate American MBA Schools when I looked at MBA programs.  As theMaddy2002 so decisively pointed out, they are different; but that is not to say they are better.  Perhaps by offering you my decision criteria for finally deciding on Trinity, I can give you yet more perspective.

I have been satisfied by my decision and I do believe that it will help me in my future endeavours.  As Mommah said and I cannot agree more, it is perhaps not in the actual 'guaranteed' monetary raise that an MBA has on your CV that I will see benefit, but in my ability to deal with circumstances that avail in the work place in positions I hope to finally obtain.  Understand that I intend to obtain these positions based on my effort, my qualifications and by proving that I am capable; not by three letters on a CV.

The question is:  What do you want out of the MBA?  There are several choices on an MBA and what fits you is dependent upon what you want out of it.  For me the final choice relied on this:

1.  I wanted an international education with a different approach - This may not be important to you, in particular if you are from Ireland.  For me, the approach of the programme was ideal in that it taught from a European perspective.

2.   I wanted a truncated timeline.  I cannot afford to be away from business for an extensive amount of time, but I am not capable of studying off and on as an executive MBA may require.  11 months vs. 2 years full time was the perfect amount of time.

3.  I wanted classmates that varied both on business origins and on nationality.  Our class is varied.  4 continents are represented; at least 8 different countries and varied cultures and professions.  I have learned as much if not more from my peers than lecturers, for which I am very grateful as they are my contemporaries.

4.  I wanted a practical education as well as academic.  American MBA programmes are notorious for teaching theory over the practical I am afraid; originating from the 2 year academic nature of the programme.  They often admit students fresh from undergrad negating the education received from other classmate’s experiences.  As I understand it, this is not the case in Smurfit but understand this may be the case in other MBA programmes you encounter.  I am not chastising them as a norm; it is just how they are set up.  Trinity did offer practical application through company projects; they did offer lecturers from the business field to educate; with success and possibly with less than success but I still learned from them. 

5.  I have to echo H2002 in that there were some very fine full time lecturers at Trinity as well.  The strategic management lecturer is exceptional; as was the accounting lecturer and several others.  Most were open for further discussion should you need it.

6.  Class size was very important to me.  A class of 30 allowed for a closer-knit discussion and better interaction.  You cannot hide from the lecturers in that size of a class.  It kept you on your toes.  The down side is that this small class may have affected the rankings globally; most MBA programmes that would be used to base the rankings off of are larger.  I could care less about rankings as in the end it is me, not my degree that will have to persuade in an interview.

For all these things, I have not been disappointed.  For others, perhaps I have.  It is the nature of educational programmes to have strong points and weak points.  I will admit that in this weakened economy it was my hope that career placement would be of a stronger focus then it was, but as H2002 commented, it is up to the students to be pro-active.  I have been heartened by my classmates successes and given the skills and intelligence of the class in general; I am confident positions are forthcoming for all of the graduates including myself given effort.

Again the question is; what do you want out of your MBA?  €30,000 is a lot of money and that does not include living expenses or opportunity costs associated.  That amount of money is actually reasonable for a MBA programme; many good programmes in the United States will run you near $100,000 before you are done.  Many of the stronger programmes in Europe such as Insead, LSE and Oxford are at least comparable to Trinity if not more and do not include expensive living costs as well.

As a current MBA student, I implore you by all means listen to the recommendations said here or other places online;  research and consider what you want, but when you finally decide, go there and get a feel for it yourself.


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## jp2009 (1 Sep 2009)

For some reason UCD seems to get a lot more applicants than Trinity which is surprising. Maybe it is just purely down to the MBA rankings which Trinity don't seem to be part of? One other thing in UCDs favour is that they have a dedicated careers person for MBA students which Trinity don't have. You would think for 30k a year Trinity should have. I would not be crazy about being stuck out in Carysfort though!


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