# Negligent Accountant?



## devastar (15 Sep 2015)

Hi, 

I'd really appreciate some advice about difficulties I'm having with my accountant. My father passed away in May 2011 and I asked his account to complete my CAT return and any outstanding tax returns my Dad owed. It's now Sept 2015 and he still hasn't done this!! He says he's a qualified accountant, but I can't find his name on any of the chartered accountant websites. 

He has all the original documentation so I can't do the returns myself. I've asked three times for him to return the documents but each time he says he'll have it in soon, that everything is in hand. He has cancelled a dozen meeting last minute. I don't know where he lives so I can't turn up to demand my documents back. He promised to have the returns in by the end of June this year and now won't even reply to my texts or emails. I've received two letters from revenue this year stating that they will issue proceedings soon. When the first one arrived I contacted my accountant and he said he'd sort it out with the revenue. When the second one arrived I called the revenue myself and they'd never spoken to my accountant! 

I'm at my wits end, I don't want to pay penalties for something that isn't my fault but I think that is what might happen now. I have an email from him promising that I'd incur no penalties, if I do is there any way to claim them back off him? Is there anyone I can report him to? Please help.


----------



## Descart (15 Sep 2015)

Devaster,

I cannot believe that you would give someone all your personal details with respect to your tax returns and not enquire as to their address or place of business, that aside, this is what you should do immediately.
I would definitely phone revenue and explain your predicament ( just in case this man has claimed a large rebate or overpayment without your knowledge ). If this man has previously filed your returns on the ROS online system, revenue will be able to ascertain his name and address. Hope this helps. If no joy from revenue, go to the Gardai.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (15 Sep 2015)

The term "accountant" isn't regulated unfortunately.

For CAT related stuff, best to deal with an AITI tax advisor in any event.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Sep 2015)

How did you come into contact with him? 

He probably is not qualified, but he might be.  Do you have any correspondence from him at all? 

Tell Revenue the problem.  At least put them on notice not to pay any refund to this other guy.

Get a tax advisor to help you. They might be able to estimate your liability and at least pay a sum on account.


----------



## Setanta12 (15 Sep 2015)

Have you googled this accountant? There are other bodies of accountants out there than just chartered accountants also.  When you find which he is a member of, a call to him setting a reasonable deadline to complete everything or else a letter/call to his body of accountants may work the trick. 

(Others will advise complaining straight away, but I think your priority is to resolve these issues as speedily as you can with Revenue ... and then ...)


----------



## Gordon Gekko (15 Sep 2015)

Maybe he trained with Bertie?

A special type of accountant who, instead of doing exams and a training contract, spent six months working as a bookkeeper in the Mater Hospital...


----------



## T McGibney (17 Sep 2015)

Gordon Gekko said:


> For CAT related stuff, best to deal with an AITI tax advisor in any event.



Not necessarily true, by the way. (Maybe you have a vested interest in making this suggestion?)


----------



## thedaddyman (17 Sep 2015)

Firstly in terms of revenue, this is your fault, not your "accountants". You employed someone who hasn't completed the necessary paperwork in 4 years. Revenue won't care what excuse you have, you chose to use this person. If you have copies of all of the records, go and find a reputable accountant who will do this for you. It will cost but at least you will have closure of the issue.

Secondly, write to every accountancy body in Ireland and raise a complaint. Hoopefully one of them will have him on their books. It sounds as if you are wasting time chasing him up to do this for you. If he has charged you, get a solicitor to write to him demanding your money back + costs and depending on the amount, perhaps raise a claim in the small claims court


----------



## Setanta12 (17 Sep 2015)

T McGibney said:


> Not necessarily true, by the way. (Maybe you have a vested interest in making this suggestion?)



Not necessarily always true ... but generally true.
(As a general rule, those with a professional qualification in an area are likely to be more knowledgeable than those without qualifications in that area)


----------



## T McGibney (17 Sep 2015)

Setanta12 said:


> Not necessarily always true ... but generally true.
> (As a general rule, those with a professional qualification in an area are likely to be more knowledgeable than those without qualifications in that area)



Come on, we all know there are a variety of professional qualifications that can equip someone with tax advisory expertise. Yet the poster suggested one particular brand of advisor. Hence my comment and question.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (17 Sep 2015)

T McGibney said:


> Come on, we all know there are a variety of professional qualifications that can equip someone with tax advisory expertise. Yet the poster suggested one particular brand of advisor. Hence my comment and question.



And none which equip an advisor better than the AITI qualification. Plus the "other" main qualification is only around a wet week - Holders are unlikely to have much practical experience. The AITI qualification is the gold standard in tax. I would actively seek out a tax advisor with the qualification.

As for generalist accountants giving tax advice, we're talking about a specialist area in this instance (CAT). Personally I would look for an AITI qualified solicitor.


----------



## T McGibney (23 Sep 2015)

Gordon Gekko said:


> As for generalist accountants giving tax advice, we're talking about a specialist area in this instance (CAT). Personally I would look for an AITI qualified solicitor.


Are you AITI qualified yourself?


----------



## Setanta12 (23 Sep 2015)

Can I ask you  - who is better to provide a set of accounts, an accounting technician or an accountant? (I would argue the latter, but you seem to argue it doesn't matter)


----------



## T McGibney (23 Sep 2015)

All other things being equal, you tend to be better off with a technologist than a technician, but that particular question is not what we're attempting to have answered here.


----------



## Setanta12 (23 Sep 2015)

My understanding and that of most dictionaries is that technologists are experts in technologies, whereas most bodies of accountants have an lower-level qualification, where those that are qualified in this can call themselves 'technicians' e.g. accounting technicians.  (But I suspect you know this and are being difficult)


----------



## T McGibney (23 Sep 2015)

Setanta12 said:


> (But I suspect you know this and are being difficult)



If you want to do an ad hominem on me, then fire ahead. But I certainly won't be responding in kind.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (23 Sep 2015)

T McGibney said:


> Are you AITI qualified yourself?



Yes


----------



## 44brendan (23 Sep 2015)

Are there many AITI qualified solicitors


----------



## Setanta12 (24 Sep 2015)

44brendan said:


> Are there many AITI qualified solicitors



I imagine there's hundreds, if not more.  I would expect any decent sized solicitor firm would have at least one; by decently sized, I mean in excess of 25 persons employed.


----------



## T McGibney (24 Sep 2015)

Setanta12 said:


> I imagine there's hundreds, if not more.  I would expect any decent sized solicitor firm would have at least one; by decently sized, I mean in excess of 25 persons employed.



I know a number of AITI qualified solicitors who don't do any "pure" (ie non-legal) tax consultancy work.

A kink in the law in relation to professional/client privilege means that taxpayers who are at risk of criminal prosecution in relation to alleged tax evasion will need to consult a solicitor for confidential advice in relation to their defence, but this only applies in a tiny minority of cases and certainly not to the OP's situation.

Resorting to an AITI qualified solicitor for any relatively routine Revenue interaction would be serious (and imho expensive) overkill.


----------



## Setanta12 (24 Sep 2015)

Hmmm ... not arguing anymore but I am AITI and an accountant, and I would always say that tax-accountants bridge the gap between the numbers/financial accountants and the words/lawyers.  

(I could be wrong but I think there's a similar divide in the States as here for solicitors/barristers in that tax-accountants are allowed to only do 'compliance' and tax-lawyers are the only ones allowed to provide tax-planning.  I could be wrong on that though ...)


----------



## T McGibney (26 Sep 2015)

Come on, realistically there's hardly much need to bridge any gaps between professionals in the OP's case. We're talking about the resolution of a relatively routine tax matter that has gone somewhat awry. It's hardly Supreme Court stuff.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (27 Sep 2015)

T McGibney said:


> I know a number of AITI qualified solicitors who don't do any "pure" (ie non-legal) tax consultancy work.
> 
> A kink in the law in relation to professional/client privilege means that taxpayers who are at risk of criminal prosecution in relation to alleged tax evasion will need to consult a solicitor for confidential advice in relation to their defence, but this only applies in a tiny minority of cases and certainly not to the OP's situation.
> 
> Resorting to an AITI qualified solicitor for any relatively routine Revenue interaction would be serious (and imho expensive) overkill.



The OP has Revenue coming up the proverbial garden path as a result of this person's incompetence. Who knows what efficiencies were missed by using an unqualified generalist? In the context of inheritance tax, I would almost always opt for an AITI lawyer. They can see more angles.


----------



## T McGibney (28 Sep 2015)

Gordon Gekko said:


> The OP has Revenue coming up the proverbial garden path as a result of this person's incompetence. Who knows what efficiencies were missed by using an unqualified generalist?



Except that this isn't what the OP's problem is. No work has been done. We have no indication of the qualifications or otherwise of the professional who failed to do the work.



Gordon Gekko said:


> In the context of inheritance tax, I would almost always opt for an AITI lawyer. They can see more angles.



Says the AITI lawyer.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (28 Sep 2015)

T McGibney said:


> Except that this isn't what the OP's problem is. No work has been done. We have no indication of the qualifications or otherwise of the professional who failed to do the work.
> 
> 
> 
> Says the AITI lawyer.



I am not a lawyer, and I resent the inference. Perhaps if you were AITI qualified, you wouldn't be making wildly inaccurate statement in another thread on the benefit of the 12.5% rate for small companies? The danger of using a generalist accountant for tax work there for all to see.


----------

