# Car abandoned in my front garden It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insurance



## olddog (15 Oct 2008)

Someone has abandoned a car in my front garden. It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insurance or NCT on display

Gardai say it is not reported as 'wanted' and agree that it looks to have been abandoned. Gardai say they can do nothing about it as it is on private property and decline to tell me the registered owner name & address.

I want to legally clear it from my front garden

What should I do ?


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## Towger (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Remove number plates, push car out onto road and then report is as abandoned to your local authority. Not exactly legal, but works!


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## Smashbox (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

I too would push it onto a place where they can take it away.

Bit of a silly rule when it's clearly abandoned.

I would contact the council and demand it to be removed. Can you fence off the area in case this is going to be a reuccuring problem?


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## nuac (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Suggest that you do not push it out onto the road. You might be held to be responsible if e.g. someone bumps into it etc.

Ring the environmental section of the local authority. They can check if for evidence of ownership. They will remove it - in some areas specialist contractors do this.

They will summons the owners ( if (s)he can be found ) under the Litter Acts or Waste Management Acts - substantial fines likely to be imposed.


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## Smashbox (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

I meant to a safe place - obviously out of harms way. I also wouldnt be informing people that I am doing it, so as not to be liable in anyway.

Deny all!


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## bond-007 (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Remove number plates, remove windscreen and push into a public place.


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## nuac (15 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Still do not recommend moving this car.   It will have been seen in your property.   If you move it outside your property and someone gets hurt, you could be sued.   Unless you live miles from anybody else somebody will see you moving it.

Leave it where it is.  Ask the Council to deal with it.  Meanwhile if possble lock it in case somebody gets into it, in particular children, and get hurt.


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## olddog (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Thanks for all the replies

I'm in no rush to move it to the public road as, apart from legal issues with doing that, I would have to break in to it and bust the steering lock.



nuac said:


> Ring the environmental section of the local authority. They can check if for evidence of ownership. They will remove it - in some areas specialist contractors do this.
> 
> They will summons the owners ( if (s)he can be found ) under the Litter Acts or Waste Management Acts - substantial fines likely to be imposed.



If I can go down this route it would seem to be much more satisfactory. 

Nuac, are you up in the law in this area ?
Do you know, are the local authority obliged to do what you described above ?
Do you know what law(s) apply here ?


Olddog


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## FKH (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

I don't understand how the gardai won't remove it as the private property it is on is yours and you wish it to be removed.

I would simply tow it out of my garden to a safe place and leave it there. I don't see how you can be liable as it is not yours and you could say you didn't touch it.


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## Towger (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

As per FKH, the council and guards will not touch the car on private properity. There is no need to break into the car. Find a few strong lads to help shift it.


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## DavyJones (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*



Towger said:


> As per FKH, the council and guards will not touch the car on private properity. There is no need to break into the car. Find a few strong lads to help shift it.




Easier still, a mechanics jack, on wheels. two of those and the job is easy.


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## nuac (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Olddog, whoever left the car in your grounds has committed a number of offences

E.g. ( assuming it is still visible from a public place ) breach of Section 3 Litter Pollution Act 1997.   Max fine €3000 euro.   The Council can usually trace the ownershio through motor taxation records.

It is also a breach of Waste Management legislation.

The Council may not be under a strict legal obligation to remove it, but most Council litter wardens are anxious to keep the area clear of derelict cars.   I would be very surprised if they did not collect it.


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## FKH (16 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

It seems odd that no official sources will help remove a car you clearly state that you don't want on your property thus leaving you no option but to move it and possibly damage it.

You could ask the gardai or the council to contact the registered owner on your behalf but from the sounds of it it wont do much good.


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## agoose (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*



olddog said:


> Someone has abandoned a car in my front garden. It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insurance or NCT on display
> 
> Gardai say it is not reported as 'wanted' and agree that it looks to have been abandoned. Gardai say they can do nothing about it as it is on private property and decline to tell me the registered owner name & address.
> 
> ...



The behaviour of the Gardai is incomprehensible. 

At least one offence has been committed that of littering.
You have reported it to the Gardai. They should enforce the law. They have the means to determine the owner (reg plates) and should prosecute on all offences.

Even if the do not want to follow the law to the letter, they could (out of common sense) call on the owner on your behalf to request him to remove said item and inform him that if he doesn't he faces prosecution.

Alternatively, you could attempt a civil action. You would need to go through your solicitor to force the Gardai to disclose the name of the person so that you (or the DPP if they do not want to /cannot disclose) can prosecute him in court. However, you have the costs, time and stress that this way inevitably involves. It is unlikely that the DPP would mount  a case unless you embarress them into it - meaning you are stuck with the problem.

As said here one way around the problem may be to go to your local county council Environmental section. Even though it is on private property they might help ypu if you ask nicely! Through the council's motor tax records they can find the owner or alternatively (if data protection is a problem for them) request it from the Gardai as you have made a formal report. If the point with the object being on private property is not a problem for them they could invoke proceedings against the perpetrator.

Contact the inspector at the local garda station. Inform him that you have no means of contacting the culprit other than going through the Gardai. Remind him of the date and time you reported the incident and ask him to inform the culprit that he has x number of days to remove said item.  If you get nowhere send a registered letter to the Gardai instructing them to inform the owner that if not removed, you will remove the item (call a scrap dealer) and charge the culprit all costs incurred. State that you will neither be responsible for any damages to nor for the fate of the item.   Also state that the culprit is to inform you before entering your property and that he does so at his own risk. Ensure you note on the letter that a copy has been sent to your solicitor (or get him to write it if you want to pay for it). You may have to end up moving it yourself and paying to do it but you are covered as you have informed the Gardai. It may be the cheapest and most hassle free method in the long run.

You are also free to contact the Garda ombudsman to look into why the Gardai did not act and left you 'on your own'.

If it is on your property for a year and a day it belongs to you anyway.

If you can get into the car you may find something that leads you to the owner.

I must say a totally miserable performance by the Gardai. Such an attitude only promotes people to commit such offences. 

The behaviour of the culprit is unreal. How was that person raised?

Any advice given is my own opinion and to be taken at the readers own risk.


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## bond-007 (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

A solicitor can obtain the ownership details direct from the Department of the Environment on your behalf. 

Tbh, I am not at all surprised by what the Gardaí are doing. If it is not on a road, it is a civil matter to them and they won't get involved. If you mention littering they will tell you that is the councils remit and to go away. I don't know if a complaint to GSOC would do any good.


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## Pique318 (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Is it unlocked ?
Is it driveable ?

Tell some of the local teenagers about it and before long the 'problem' will have disappeared !


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## galleryman (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

If it was me, I would stick a big sign on my property beside the car stating

"THIS CAR DOES NOT BELONG TO ME. 
IT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN ABANDONED.
I WILL NOT BE UPSET IF I WAKE UP AND FIND IT GONE."

and see what happens in the dead of night. ;-)


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## Complainer (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*



agoose said:


> The behaviour of the Gardai is incomprehensible.
> 
> At least one offence has been committed that of littering.
> You have reported it to the Gardai. They should enforce the law. They have the means to determine the owner (reg plates) and should prosecute on all offences.


Gardai don't deal with litter offences. That's the resonsibility of the local authority litter warden.



agoose said:


> Even if the do not want to follow the law to the letter, they could (out of common sense) call on the owner on your behalf to request him to remove said item and inform him that if he doesn't he faces prosecution.


I don't think it is 'common sense' for Gardai to lie or exaggerate. What kind of prosecution did you have in mind?



agoose said:


> Alternatively, you could attempt a civil action. You would need to go through your solicitor to force the Gardai to disclose the name of the person so that you (or the DPP if they do not want to /cannot disclose) can prosecute him in court. However, you have the costs, time and stress that this way inevitably involves. It is unlikely that the DPP would mount a case unless you embarress them into it - meaning you are stuck with the problem.


 Not good advice. The DPP does not do 'embarrassment'. See bond-007's post above for how a solicitor can actually help.



agoose said:


> As said here one way around the problem may be to go to your local county council Environmental section. Even though it is on private property they might help ypu if you ask nicely! Through the council's motor tax records they can find the owner or alternatively (if data protection is a problem for them) request it from the Gardai as you have made a formal report. If the point with the object being on private property is not a problem for them they could invoke proceedings against the perpetrator.


Now we're getting somewhere.




agoose said:


> Contact the inspector at the local garda station. Inform him that you have no means of contacting the culprit other than going through the Gardai. Remind him of the date and time you reported the incident and ask him to inform the culprit that he has x number of days to remove said item. If you get nowhere send a registered letter to the Gardai instructing them to inform the owner that if not removed, you will remove the item (call a scrap dealer) and charge the culprit all costs incurred. State that you will neither be responsible for any damages to nor for the fate of the item. Also state that the culprit is to inform you before entering your property and that he does so at his own risk. Ensure you note on the letter that a copy has been sent to your solicitor (or get him to write it if you want to pay for it). You may have to end up moving it yourself and paying to do it but you are covered as you have informed the Gardai. It may be the cheapest and most hassle free method in the long run.
> 
> You are also free to contact the Garda ombudsman to look into why the Gardai did not act and left you 'on your own'.


Poor advice, going down a convoluted and cumbersome route. Why would you put details about the 'culprit' being at their own risk in a letter to the Gardai? What possible impact could this have?



agoose said:


> Any advice given is my own opinion and to be taken at the readers own risk.


 Indeed.


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## DeclanP (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*

Stop bickering lads. 

Refer back to Towger's advice and just get rid of the problem by moving the car from its present location to a public place where both the Gardai and the local authority will then have to become involved and problem solved. 

It shouldn't have to cost the OP money by hiring a solicitor or taking a civil action. 

The car would be well rusted by the time this process has come to a conclusion. 

Get rid. Quickly.


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## Towger (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*



DeclanP said:


> Refer back to Towger's advice and just get rid of the problem by moving the car from its present location to a public place where both the Gardai and the local authority will then have to become involved and problem solved.


 
Exactly. I would also add that my advice came from the Guards and has been done on practice, after the ower's name and address was supplied by the guards and written to etc..


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## agoose (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden*



DeclanP said:


> It shouldn't have to cost the OP money by hiring a solicitor or taking a civil action.
> 
> Get rid. Quickly.



I couldn't agree more. However, for the sake of disccussion what would be the correct legal route of solving this problem?

It just cannot be that a route exists to determine the culprit while the victim is stuck with the aggrevation/cost.

Leaving aside what they did or are likely to do what exactly are the Gardai obliged to do in this situation?

It makes no sense to me that they cannot do anything or that as said before they cannot do anything because 'it is on private property'. If a car drives into a private driveway and damages a stationary car and then drives away do they also do nothing assuming that the reg of the culprit has been noted?




DeclanP said:


> Refer back to Towger's advice and just get rid of the problem by moving the car from its present location to a public place where both the Gardai and the local authority will then have to become involved and problem solved.



But taken logically isn't the victim now committig an offence? He is dumping the car in a public place.



> I would also add that my advice came from the Guards and has been done on practice, after the ower's name and address was supplied by the guards and written to etc..


This is quite worrying as the Gardai have handed over personal information to a member of the public . They cannot know if one will write to the owner or visit him with a hatchet! Dare I say, it comes across that the Gardai do not want to be bothered. Hence my question above what are they obliged to undertake?


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## Jane Doe (23 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insur*

Have you ever seen ads in a papers where scrap merchants remove unwanted cars free?


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## nuac (26 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insur*

to repeat earlier advice I would not recommend moving this car anywhere. Your local council should collect it or arrange it's collection on request.

If you do move it onto a public place you have committed offences under Section 3 of Litter Pollutiyon Act 1997 and possibly under S 71 of the Waste Management Act 1996.

Even more importantly if someone is injured in any way involving this vehicle so moved, you could be a defendant in any legal action


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## bond-007 (26 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insur*

It would be necessary to prove the OP actually moved the car. Good luck with that.


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## Towger (26 Oct 2008)

*Re: Car abandoned in my front garden It has number plates, tax expired 2007, no insur*



nuac said:


> to repeat earlier advice I would not recommend moving this car anywhere. Your local council should collect it or arrange it's collection on request.


 
Yawn, council won't touch it on private property, unless you own it, cross their hand with gold and have the Log Book/paperwork.


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