# Sitting down with the Ombudsman as Mediation and my Financial Provider to discuss



## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

Hi, 

I just wanted to ask if anyone had any experience with the Mediation process with the Ombudsman and their Financial Advisor? We are due to meet with our Financial provider to discuss the resolution of our complaint against them regarding the tracker mortgage issue. 

What should we expect? What should we bring? Are these meetings generally held to resolve the issue with complaints? 

Any information would really be helpful and also possible outcomes. Also, as a side question, I'm desperately trying to figure out how to calculate the over charging (2008) to present.

Thank you in advance.


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## Daveevan34 (4 Mar 2020)

MajorGreenhorn said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted to ask if anyone had any experience with the Mediation process with the Ombudsman and their Financial Advisor? We are due to meet with our Financial provider to discuss the resolution of our complaint against them regarding the tracker mortgage issue.
> 
> ...





Could you clarify please are you meeting the ombusman and is your lender going to attend.
My experience has been the ombusman has taken an interest in our dispute and has put questions to the bank on our behalf. When the bank had the opportunity to clarify their position they somehow ended up making it worse. We now have a solicitor managing our dispute as it has gotten out of hand (there are more question than ever) and it appears its going to court. The ombusman has always been involved. Is this mediation you speak of being held in order to possibly avoid heading towards going to court or are you just at the beginning stage of your dispute?


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Mar 2020)

Hi Major 

Which lender?

What is the issue?

In most tracker cases that I have seen, the bank were just "mediating for clarification" which was a complete waste of time as everything was well clarfied.

Have you been through the Independent Appeals Process?   

I have seen people getting very anxious about the mediation meeting and treating it like a court hearing where they have to perform very well.

It sounds like an informal meeting with the Ombudsman for him to understand your complaint. 

Just bring your file. 

Don't worry about the overcharging. It's too complicated to calculate.  When you win your case, you can worry about that. If you lose, it will be irrelevant.

Brendan


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

Daveevan34 said:


> Could you clarify please are you meeting the ombusman and is your lender going to attend.
> My experience has been the ombusman has taken an interest in our dispute and has put questions to the bank on our behalf. When the bank had the opportunity to clarify their position they somehow ended up making it worse. We now have a solicitor managing our dispute as it has gotten out of hand (there are more question than ever) and it appears its going to court. The ombusman has always been involved. Is this mediation you speak of being held in order to possibly avoid heading towards going to court or are you just at the beginning stage of your dispute?



Our meeting is at the request of our financial provider. The FSPO is Mediating the meeting on both our behalves. 

The process is in its final stage prior to adjudication by the Ombudsman. Our last response to questions raised by them (Financial Provider) was in January 2020. We responded outlining a few points which are the facts about our case against them.  Our provider asked for an extension 3 times with this response. Then finally our Financial provider contacted the FSOP office asking if we would attend a mediation process and the FSOP mediating. 

I would imagine they are looking to come to an amicable settlement with us. The Ombudsman is facilitating the process as a mediator for both parties. 

This is after nearly 2 years of back and forth (3 years if you count waiting for the final response letter before we could officially lodge the complaint with the FSOP office) with our financial provider.  

My understanding is that they want to trash out a settlement but again this is where I am completely blind going into this process. 

This the exact wording we received from the Ombudsman: 

"The purpose of the mediation process is to enable the parties to explore a flexible approach to their respective positions, with a view to achieving the desired outcome, i.e. an agreed resolution of the dispute.  Whilst, in many cases, the adjudication of a dispute is likely to favour one party only, mediation facilitates both parties by offering an opportunity to them to work with the Mediator to find settlement terms which will be acceptable to them both."


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Mar 2020)

Hi Major

The normal process is as follows 

*Stage A clarification and mediation *
1) You submit a complaint to the Ombudsman
2) The Ombudsman contacts you to clarify your complaint.
3) They send on the complaint to the bank
4) The bank replies 
5) The Ombudsman sends the reply to you 
6) The mediator might or might not meet with you both to try to resolve it 
7) Either side pulls out of the process or the Ombudsman decides that mediation has failed 
8) You will then receive a letter from the Ombudsman telling you that your file is being sent for Investigation.

*Stage B investigation *
9) After some months, the Investigator will send a summary of your complaint and a list of their questions to the bank
10) The bank will reply
11) You will be sent a copy of the reply. 
12) You submit a response to their reply....   (This can go on for months until you are both exhausted) 

*Stage C Adjudication *
13) The Ombudsman will issue a preliminary decision 
14) Both sides can go back and forward with further observations. 

*Stage D Final Decision *
The Ombudsman will issue a final decision. 

I suspect that you are still at Stage A - the Mediation Process. 

I have seen cases which I thought were being adjudicated but it was still mediation. 

It would be very unusual if the bank sought mediation after the investigation process had started. 

Which bank and what is the nature of your complaint?


Brendan


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## Daveevan34 (4 Mar 2020)

Thanks for the reply major. 

It appears your further along than myself. I cant add anything usefull I'm afraid. But I hope your meeting goes well. Good luck.


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Major
> 
> Which lender?
> 
> ...




Hi Brendan, 

I wasn't sure if I could mention the lender: AIB 

Whats the issue? Too long to outline in a mail HA!! 

This is an ongoing complaint for the past 2 years and reaching its final stage. The Ombudsman is clear as to our grievances and fully understand our complaint. My understanding from the FSPO is that they want to try and mediate an amicable outcome so as not to go before the Ombudsman for a final decision. 

"The purpose of the mediation process is to enable the parties to explore a flexible approach to their respective positions, with a view to achieving the desired outcome, i.e. an agreed resolution of the dispute.  Whilst, in many cases, the adjudication of a dispute is likely to favour one party only, mediation facilitates both parties by offering an opportunity to them to work with the Mediator to find settlement terms which will be acceptable to them both."

This was the most recent letter we received from the FSPO after AIB requested for Mediation.


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## elcato (4 Mar 2020)

Brendan - The mediation takes place between step B and C or C and D where you outlined above. Normally in my experience the FSO does not do preliminary. Before the ombudsman makes a decision he asks both parties are the willing to negotiate. It's clear that AIB now realise they are on a hiding and are trying to get a deal amicably. I think he does need to have projected figures at the meeting but I'm guessing AIB will have them made out - it's just a case of whether the 'injured' party is happy taking their word.
I should add that both parties have to agree to mediation also, otherwise the FSO will just make a decision.


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

Bingo, 

We are at the end game at this stage and this is the final  Can I ask - would the bank ask to meet now at this stage if not to try and come to a settlement if they know they are going to lose? 

Also, does anyone know the layout of these meetings?


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## elcato (4 Mar 2020)

MajorGreenhorn said:


> Bingo,
> 
> We are at the end game at this stage


That is my interpretation but don't forget I am not an expert and am only going on my past experience with them. In both cases I refused mediation but so did the bank so can't help you with what to expect.


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

elcato said:


> That is my interpretation but don't forget I am not an expert and am only going on my past experience with them. In both cases I refused mediation but so did the bank so can't help you with what to expect.



I meant more you understood where we were in the process. I'm still non the wiser as to what to expect in this meeting. Both myself and my wife haven't reached out for legal help and have both diligently read and researched everything ourselves to get to this stage of the process.  I still don't want to...yet. The more I read or not read about these meetings, I wonder as to what to expect. 

The calculator to work our over charging would be massively beneficial to find out where we are if anyone had it please. I would like this figure before I attend the meeting which is in the coming weeks.


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

Daveevan34 said:


> Thanks for the reply major.
> 
> It appears your further along than myself. I cant add anything useful I'm afraid. But I hope your meeting goes well. Good luck.



Thanks Dave, the very best of luck to you too


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## elcato (4 Mar 2020)

Nobody knows how they work out the overcharge. I did a basic 'back of envelope' calculations by using the rates here over the years and seeing what the difference was in payments for each passage of time when the rates stayed the same. I actually got more than I estimated by about 20%. If you sit down and see what you should have paid and what you did pay you can get a close estimate.


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## MajorGreenhorn (4 Mar 2020)

elcato said:


> Nobody knows how they work out the overcharge. I did a basic 'back of envelope' calculations by using the rates here over the years and seeing what the difference was in payments for each passage of time when the rates stayed the same. I actually got more than I estimated by about 20%. If you sit down and see what you should have paid and what you did pay you can get a close estimate.


Thank you very much, Ill have a look at this now.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Mar 2020)

Major

At some stage in the past, did you get a letter from the Ombudsman saying. 

"Dear Major

Mediation has failed. 

I am now referring your case to the Investigation and Adjudication Branch" 

I would be really surprised if the Ombudsman proceeded as follows : 

1) Mediation  until it failed
2) Investigation 
3) Mediation reopened 

The Ombudsman is a very friendly service. Ring the person who sent you the letter and clarify it. 

I will ask for the third time...

What is the nature of your complaint? 

Brendan


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## TrackerThieves (5 Mar 2020)

MajorGreenhorn said:


> The process is in its final stage prior to adjudication by the Ombudsman.


I took it that it has been through an investigation and the bank now want to try and resolve this. The question is why and how unusual is this course of action at this stage


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2020)

Hi TT

That is what the OP said but I have found the process very confusing and thought a case was at adjudication when it was still being mediated. 

I have seen cases where the bank asks the Ombudsman to put the case on hold at the adjudication stage as they wish to make an offer to the customer.  They do this to avoid an unfavourable decision. 

But I would be very surprised if the process went 

Mediation
Investigation 
More Mediation. 

So I think that this case is still at the mediation stage.

Brendan


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## TrackerThieves (5 Mar 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But I would be very surprised if the process went
> 
> Mediation
> Investigation
> ...


This looks like how the process has gone, I'm sure the op can clarify. Op also stated there were 2 years of back and forth which suggests it went past mediation. Timeline for mediation phase is only 6 weeks and the fspo is quite keen not to go on any longer during this phase


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## TrackerThieves (5 Mar 2020)

May have been 12 weeks would need to check, but was a relatively short period compared to other parts of the process


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## TrackerThieves (6 Mar 2020)

just checked my documentation, resolution phase was to be no more than 12 weeks, my case was quite complex compared to most and only went a little over and remember the resolution officer was very keen for both parties to stick to the 12 weeks time-frame.


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## George12 (22 Mar 2020)

Without any advance warning my bank brought a litigation partner from one of the large law firms - felt like bullying tactics to me. Luckily I brought my friend with me who just happened to be a solicitor too. I lost faith in the process then - how could an ordinary person on the street compete with that?  So my advice is be prepared for the worst, it may not turn out to be the worst but at least you will be confident going in.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Mar 2020)

Either side is entitled to bring advisors with them. 

The Ombudsman will ensure that the customer is not at a disadvantage. 

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (22 Mar 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Either side is entitled to bring advisors with them.
> 
> The Ombudsman will ensure that the customer is not at a disadvantage.



That's my experience too. I've had two complaints ruled in my favour by the Ombudsman. Both times it's been my amateur efforts with no legal input.

The system has a built-in bias in favour of the little guy as obviously big organisations can draw on legal firepower.


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## Thinktank (23 Mar 2020)

How did this work out?


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## Thinktank (23 Mar 2020)

The system seems in favour of the bank.


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