# Boundary Hedge



## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

Hi
I have a query regarding the legal obligations of a gardner before they start work on a boundary hedge. As I understand it boundary hedges should not be significantly altered without agreement of both neighbours. So if i come home to find my 12 foot high hedge reduced to 8 foot do I have grounds to seek damages from the gardener that carried this out by the request of my neighbour. Even if they are told by my neighbour that we had agreed to this surely they should be obliged to confirm it with us directly before they started working on it.

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.


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## Thirsty (15 Mar 2019)

Who owns the hedge?


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## DeeKie (15 Mar 2019)

You can deal with whatever is on / over your property without agreement but courtesy to neighbours is nice. It’s good to discuss with neighbours. When we are hedge cutting we ask next door can we hop over their wall to pick up stray cuttings.


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

The hedge was disputed at the time. Hence the underhandness of our neighbour by sending in gardener and telling him we had consented. Settlement reached with neighbour places ownership of hedge with us as per both Folio maps.
But for the purpose of this discussion let's call it shared ownership. We are not talking about a trim here. It was reduced from 12 foot to 8 foot.


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## DeeKie (15 Mar 2019)

Shared ownership? Oh dear well I think that you would need to discuss what your agreement is. If it’s shared between gardens might be do with sunlight. Look at the bright side, is it not a good thing that they’ve taken the cost of maintenance? And one cannot see over 8ft.


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## Easeler (15 Mar 2019)

Who wants a 12 foot boundary hedge. 8 foot is a good height for a hedge, bring him in a bottle of wine and thank him for keeping hedge under control and wish him a nice weekend.


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## SparkRite (15 Mar 2019)

Absolutely, maybe even two bottles.
I just wish I had a neighbour that would cut my hedges for  me.

OP,  move on, there are more important things to be concerned about in life.


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

The discussion has moved away from my original question. We needed the hedge to be 12 foot to preserve our privacy from a rented dwelling in our neighbours back garden and we are very upset at the destruction of our property.

My simple question is: A shared hedge for the purpose of my query was cut down without our consent. A reduction of 4 foot is not maintenance. Shouldn't the gardener have been obliged to seek our consent before starting work on it.


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## Leper (15 Mar 2019)

A 12ft hedge would prevent light into your good neighbour's garden/house. Did you have planning permission for the 12ft hedge? At least, did you advise your good neighbour that you intended growing the hedge to 12ft high. I'd be asking how high do you really intend growing the hedge? Anything over 8ft i'd have problems with. I reckon your good neighbour should have advised you of what he/she was going to do about the hedge. Would he/she not have cut the hedge after the conversation.  I feel there is more to this than meets the eye.

But, you're having problems mainly with another neighbour. I think you need allies, not enemies.


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## Jazz01 (15 Mar 2019)

Bocon -  Is the rented dwelling elevated in the back yard? Is it single / double story? Was there planning for such?

What type of hedge is it? Normally, a hedge reduction of 4 feet, at this time of year, isn't that great of a reduction (all relative I understand), but the growth of the hedge will kick on now. Better to keep the hedge under control via such cut backs, as once it goes out of control, it'll be harder to "tame" and may result in an even more reduction. Personally speaking, I would be taking at least 4 feet off my own border hedge / trees each season, to encourage growth lower to the ground.

Not to sure if the gardener should notify you or not - he may have been told that it was the neighbour's hedge. He was working for that neighbour.


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## Leo (15 Mar 2019)

Bocon1 said:


> My simple question is: A shared hedge for the purpose of my query was cut down without our consent. A reduction of 4 foot is not maintenance. Shouldn't the gardener have been obliged to seek our consent before starting work on it.



The gardener acted in good faith, you need to deal with the neighbour. You and your neighbour have a shared duty to maintain the hedge, allowing most hedging to grow to 12 feet is excessive for many varieties. Take a look at the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, you can raise a dispute in the courts, but this will be expensive, and you have to ask yourself whether an independent party would consider a 12 foot hedge excessive. Fencing by law cannot exceed 2m in height to the rear of a property. 

If the neighbour has a rented property in the back garden, they are most likely renting it illegally. Why not deal with that?


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

The hedge was 12 foot high when we moved in. I did speak to her after an approach was made by a landscaper working for her looking to remove the hedge and replace it with a new one. I explained to her about our privacy concerns and we wanted the hedge to remain at 12 foot. I told her about my plan to plant a 2nd hedge on higher ground offset by about 15 foot from the boundary hedge. Once that 2nd hedge got to about 8 foot it would give us the privacy we needed and i would be open to reducing the boundary hedge at that time. I followed through with that 2nd hedge as soon as the plants were available in the garden centre. But after that my 'good neighbour' sent no fewer than 4 different agents at different times to work on reducing the hedge without our consent. They all stopped as soon as we told them to but no surprise that we came home one day to find the hedge at 8 foot. 

The issue of the boundary is now settled with our 'good neighbour'. The hedge is on our side of the boundary. A new fence will be constructed on her side at a shared cost. This will protect our hedge in future.

I still have a major issue with gardeners that start major work on boundary hedges without direct consent of both neighbours. I think they should be held accountable for destruction of private property. Maybe somebody could lend their opinion on that and forget about the rest of the background to this case. That is settled now.


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## RedOnion (15 Mar 2019)

Your issue is with the neighbour, not the gardener. They are acting as an agent of your neighbour.
No gardeners would ever get any work done if they had to go around and chat to all the neighbours first.

This happened in the past, and you said ownership has been settled since? You need to let go and enjoy your life.


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## DirectDevil (15 Mar 2019)

Leo said:


> SNIP SNIP. Fencing by law cannot exceed 2m in height to the rear of a property. SNIP



What is the authority for that proposition ? I am not challenging you - just looking for a basis for that argument as I have a similar problem on hand ! Thanks.


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## Leo (15 Mar 2019)

Bocon1 said:


> I still have a major issue with gardeners that start major work on boundary hedges without direct consent of both neighbours. I think they should be held accountable for destruction of private property.



But it's not your sole property, it's shared, they have no case to answer. Pursue it if you want to throw away thousands in legal fees. The legislation I linked covers the entitlements and responsibilities relating to boundaries including hedges. It would easily be argued that the work carried out was essential maintenance that does not require explicit consent of both parties, more [broken link removed].


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## Leo (15 Mar 2019)

DirectDevil said:


> What is the authority for that proposition ? I am not challenging you - just looking for a basis for that argument as I have a similar problem on hand ! Thanks.



Planning and Development Regulations -> Exempted Development — General -> Class 1 (link)



> Description of Development
> The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.
> 
> Conditions and Limitations
> ...



So fencing to the side/ rear cannot exceed 2m unless planning permission is granted for same.


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

Thanks Leo for your thoughts. I thought it would be more black and white about both parties having to agree to a significant change to the boundary they share.


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## Leo (15 Mar 2019)

I'd imagine the legislation to allow for essential maintenance was brought in to prevent one neighbour blocking essential work just to frustrate or annoy the other party.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Mar 2019)

What do you be doing in your garden that needs 12ft of hedge to guarantee privacy?

Does the dwelling in the neighbouring garden have two stories?


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

We're in a bungalow. Rented property is a split level structure. I don't know the internal layout but I expect the living area in it is on the upper floor as the main entrance is also on that level. There is a direct line of sight into one of our kid's bedroom window from the upper floor windows.
All of that is beside the point. The hedge was 12 foot when we moved in. We wanted it to remain at 12 foot. I just expected that we had a right to maintain it at that height and not to come home to find it reduced by 33% in height without our consent.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Mar 2019)

Bocon1 said:


> . There is a direct line of sight into one of our kid's bedroom window from the upper floor windows.



In my honest opinion, you don't need legal advice, you need a net curtain


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## noproblem (15 Mar 2019)

Saying the gardener was wrong is in my opinion ridiculous. They're asked to do a job, they do it. My neighbour who had a rather large hedge running alongside my rented property planted a ready made hedge outside of the original one and brought the height to almost 10 overnight. I could never contact him for one reason or another and decided he had gone overboard on the height. I waited until the end of autumn and had the thing cut back a few feet, wasn't long until the absent neighbour surfaced. We had words, but the hedge was cut and he was told it would be again. Funny thing is the hedge is now cut every year and is reasonable without any help from me. I too like my peace and privacy, but there's a limit, 8ft to me is high enough for anyone.


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## SparkRite (15 Mar 2019)

I REALLY wish that I had the time to be so concerned over the height of a hedge as the OP apparently has, but I, and I assume most others, have rather more pressing matters in life to fill our time.

To the OP, just wait a few months and you'll have your 12' back.


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## LS400 (15 Mar 2019)

Hang on a minute,

Your getting some undeserved stick, and even some smart alec responses here.

Whether or not you can do anything about it now, I really cant say, but, I would be mighty peeved of if I too came home to find someone hacked back the said trees without my agreement, Law or no flamin Law. Common decency would not go amiss here, and I wouldn't be shy about letting them have an earful. 

If they are within their rights to do this, so be it. It doesn't make the sneaky way they went about it right though.


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## SparkRite (15 Mar 2019)

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the neighbour was right and I agree common courtesy is lacking in this situation.

By all means express your dissatisfaction to the neighbour, but get over it, move on, as I said the hedge will grow back.
All this talk of legislation and litigation is just ridiculous, over a hedge !


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## Bocon1 (15 Mar 2019)

Thanks LS400. 
It would have been great if the neighbour took the action of cutting the hedge before we moved in because we would not have probably even noticed. House was being renovated for 6 months so she had a chance to act then. 

BTW, it's not like I'm talking about a 12 foot hedge on the back of a 3 bed semi size site. That would be seriously intrusive. Our neighbour owns trees on the opposite boundary that must be in the region of 25-30 foot tall.


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## Saavy99 (16 Mar 2019)

There's a lot to be said for living in a scenic location without a neighbour in sight


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## john luc (19 Mar 2019)

There is an old adage, good fençes make for good neighbours.


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## MangoJoe (19 Mar 2019)

People are being a bit dismissive of your concerns here. To be honest it seems as if your neighbour was being a bit sneaky and underhanded in pushing their own hedge-cutting agenda, also if its your hedge then its your hedge, how dare they! - These two factors would annoy me no end.

Your beef is not with the Gardner though - Your dodgy Neighbour was pushing him all the way....


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## noproblem (19 Mar 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> Your dodgy Neighbour was pushing him all the way....



How do you know that?


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## Leo (20 Mar 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> also if its your hedge then its your hedge, how dare they!



This is covered in the thread, it's a shared boundary hedge.


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## Bocon1 (20 Mar 2019)

Yes. I did refer to it as a shared boundary because of the lack of a clear boundary that matches the folio maps of both properties. As it turns out the neighbour had eroded the boundary ditch over the years. All that remained of it was a tree stump line. We have dealt with the neighbour and it's been agreed to share the cost of some kind of concrete post fence along the folio map boundary line.
The reason I called it a shared boundary for this thread was because the folio map boundary would not have been clear to the gardener at the time. I just wanted to focus in on the actions they took without consent of a neighbour who shares the boundary. I dont think its right that gardeners can say that they were led to believe there was an agreement. If they were misled by my neighbour then they can take it up with her.


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## Purple (27 Mar 2019)

It's not the gardeners fault. They acted in good faith.
The issue is with your neighbour. They were underhand in their actions.

The hedge is now 8ft tall and you don't like it... but it will grow on you.


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## MangoJoe (27 Mar 2019)

noproblem said:


> How do you know that?



I'd imagine that the proportion of rogue guerrilla gardeners working to vex and outrage is eclipsed by the sheer numbers of ordinary decent gardeners just following their clients orders and trying to make an honest living.


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## Drakon (15 Apr 2019)

AFAIK, anything more than 6 feet is against bye-laws. 
That’s the way it is in the UK.


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## deranne (18 Apr 2019)

LS400 said:


> Hang on a minute,
> 
> Your getting some undeserved stick, and even some smart alec responses here.
> 
> ...




Finally a fair comment.  I'd be peeved too, not enough to go legal but I wouldn't like it.


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## Drakon (19 Apr 2019)

Drakon said:


> AFAIK, anything more than 6 feet is against bye-laws.
> That’s the way it is in the UK.


My apologies, I was incorrect in my previous post. 

There’s a legal limit to the height of gates, walls and fences (2m to the rear garden, 1.2m to the front garden) but not to hedges. However, the “right to light” is a factor. 
However, I would use the aforementioned height limits as a rule-of-thumb so even at 8ft that hedge is too high. As for privacy, are the renters exceptionally tall?


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## Drakon (19 Apr 2019)

At the bottom of this article:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifes...d-fences-make-for-good-neighbours-343315.html


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## DirectDevil (29 Apr 2019)

Just a few observations.

OP is being generous in sharing the costs of the fence with the neighbour if I understand correctly that the fence is a *boundary* fence not a *party* fence.
There should be clear written agreement with the neighbour that it is a *boundary* fence and that she is the *owner* of it.
This will avoid trouble in later years when the fence dies and needs to be replaced by the neighbour *or* her successors in title who might say that they are strangers to any such agreement.

I would discreetly take a series of photographs showing the layout of the land before the fence is erected.
I would then do likewise after erection of the fence.
This will help in any future dispute.
Be sure that the photographs depict accurately what they are intended to show.

It has been suggested that the gardener is acting as the agent of the neighbour.
This may be quite incorrect.
If the gardener is an *independent contractor* the neighbour is his *principal*.
Generally - but with some exceptions - principals are not vicariously liable for the negligence of an independent contractor.
A principal may direct to an independent contractor the intended end purpose of a job but does not retain control over the method of work.
However, if this matter had been of such substance that legal proceedings were taken the neighbour and the contractor would actually be nominated as co-defendants.

I would not be so generous about the gardener.
Experienced contractors often know quite well what they are doing as well as what lies on the naughty side of right.
To answer a specific point from OP I think that the gardener was well out of order on grounds of trespass and quite possibly criminal damage.

Ah well, to paraphrase Basil Fawlty, the war is over and we are all friends again...................


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