# Accountants Fees for small Ltd Company



## lee78 (16 Aug 2010)

I am a director of a small electrical contracting company which must reduce its overheads in order to survive.

Our turnover is down to approx €150,000. We pay €7000 of this in annual accounting & bookeeping fees (5% of turnover). I feel this is too high.

We employ a part-time bookeeper (€3500 per anum) who looks after our purchases, payrole (2 working directors only), VAT returns, P30's & bank rec. 
Everything is updated weekly.

I look after all the invoicing and credit control myself.
We use Quickbooks accounting software.

The accountant only appears once a year for our annual return. He prints reports directly from the quickbooks software, takes them away and prepares and files our annual accounts. He charges €3500 for this.

I have contacted other accountancy firms and i am receiving similar quotations. It appears to me €3500 is the minimum charge for an annual return. (Additionally this is paid in a lump sum before filing. I have heard there are firms who will charge in installments over the course of a year but i am unable to find any.)

I was considering letting the bookeeper go. The entire bookeeping would be too time consuming to do myself (we have a lot of purchase invoices). 

I had planned to continue using Quickbooks just for the sales/payrole. I could do the VAT return (quarterly) myself by hand. I would then wish to hand an accountant the Sales, Purchases & Bank Statements folders once a year for the annual return.

I put this idea to the accountant and was told the extra fees incurred would nearly cancel out any savings gained by letting the bookeeper go.
I received similar answers from other accountancy firms.

If anybody else in a similar size company is paying cheaper accounting costs or knows of a better system i would greatly appreciate any advice.


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## J.Ryan (16 Aug 2010)

PM sent


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## Gervan (16 Aug 2010)

The accountants fees are a horrible joke. Rather keep on the book-keeper. You may find s/he quite capable of making the company returns.


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## pascal12 (16 Aug 2010)

Gervan said:


> The accountants fees are a horrible joke. Rather keep on the book-keeper. You may find s/he quite capable of making the company returns.



I totally agree 
I am looking for an accountant for small business myself just sent an inquiry out to this company I spotted on the internet dublinaccountants .ie with a brief explanation got a quick reply with a price quote that sounds perfect i will progress if anybody has uised before please let me know.


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## Joe_90 (16 Aug 2010)

These fees give accountants a bad name.  

€2000 + VAT for VAT PAYE RCT CT1 & B1 for the company and 2 Form 11s for directors would be more appropiate.


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## J.Ryan (16 Aug 2010)

Joe_90 said:


> These fees give accountants a bad name.
> 
> €2000 + VAT for VAT PAYE RCT CT1 & B1 for the company and 2 Form 11s for directors would be more appropiate.


 
That would be my thinking, perhaps a little bit less, depending on the Book-keeper.


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## Paddy199 (17 Aug 2010)

Unless the bookkeeper is making a right mess of things, €3,500 is a rip off. Does the bookkeeper double check the year end figures for accuracy before handing quickbooks to the accountant? For instance, do they double check the VAT control account balance to make sure that it matches the next VAT3 return, etc.

€2,000 plus VAT is spot on if including the directors returns.


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## T McGibney (17 Aug 2010)

lee78 said:


> The accountant only appears once a year for our annual return. He prints reports directly from the quickbooks software, takes them away and prepares and files our annual accounts. He charges €3500 for this.
> 
> I have contacted other accountancy firms and i am receiving similar quotations. It appears to me €3500 is the minimum charge for an annual return. (Additionally this is paid in a lump sum before filing. I have heard there are firms who will charge in installments over the course of a year but i am unable to find any.)



Some quick points for the OP:

1. The combined cost of accountant and bookkeeper does seem excessive, assuming this is an audit-exempt company and the records are kept in good order.

2. It should be quite straightforward to find another accountancy firm that will do the job at a lower price than €3,500. 

3. It should also be possible to find another firm that will accept payment by monthly standing order. Do bear in mind that in the current climate firms will be reluctant to give extended credit to new clients whom they do not know, hence if you go to a firm on the basis of a recommendation from a colleague, friend or family member, and make the firm aware of the connection, they will have more confidence in your bona fides and creditworthiness and should be in a better position to accomodate you in this regard.

4. As your turnover has dropped to a relatively low level, you maybe should be considering having the company ceasing to trade (obviously paying off all debts, bills etc in the process) and re-commencing as a sole trader. This might involve once-off readjustment costs but could help to dramatically cut compliance costs in the long run.


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## mystrikeoff (17 Aug 2010)

I think you should arrange a meeting with the accountant and bookkeeper and ask the tough questions. Clearly, one of them is not worth the money you are paying. 

Ask the accountant what he is actually doing for his €3,500 fee. Ask if the reason for this high fee is due to the quality of the records/bookeeping. Get to the nub of the issue. If the bookkeeper is no good, it should be brought out into the open.

Also ask if there is more that the bookkeeper could be doing for him (presumably at a lower hourly rate) in order to minimise cost.

If the company is audit-exempt and if the bookkeeper is good at what they do, there should be very little for the accountant to do other than print a trial balance and prepare the financial statements from it. There are, of course, other issues such as the B1, the corporation tax return and the directors' income tax returns but €3,500 for this does seem excessive.


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## Jackie D (20 Aug 2010)

Quick advice, do your homework! The cheapest are not always the best! We went through three accounts in the last nine years after been left in limbo many times on both Limited and Sole Trader accounts. O'Brien Curran O'Mahony, Chartered Accountants, in Fairview were recommended to us by a solicitor and honestly, we find them brilliant at a fair price. 

Well worth having a chat with Tim 01 894 2935

No association just very happy clients!


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## simplyjoe (23 Aug 2010)

As an example we would probably do everything including bookeeping for €4,000 plus VAT. This is assuming that you are co-operative in suppling all information in a timely fashion and assuming directors wages do not change each week. We are however in the West. Thats the price of living in Dublin.


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