# Is an RSJ expensive? Any idea what sort of costs (labour & materials)?



## ice

Is an RSJ expensive ?

We are looking at needing one about a 2 metres long. Any idea what sort of cost you would be looking at (labour and material)? We have a quote from a builder but are now thinking about adding an archway and just want to get an idea of how much extra it would cost

Thank you


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## onq

You don't just "bung in" a wall or even get a builder to advise you.

Cowboys will say anything to get a job these days, even to point of improper advice.

This is not just about a piece of steel 2M long.

There are several operations to prepare the building in even a simple beam placement long before you get near buying a piece of steel:


dust sheets
room sealing
protective timber fans
propping
demolition work
preparing the bearing surface
placing/casting the padstone - or whatever
hoisting
placing
levelling
shimming up
setting
removal of props
making good
cleaning up

You really need to think about this before you spend good money.

In particular take some design advice in relation to how you could best spend your money.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.


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## ice

There are plenty of excellent builders out there, plenty of structural engineers etc. Not everyone requires the services of a 'design consultant' or architect. Of course its in the interest of these consultants to label builders 'cowboys' and try to push everyone towards an architect. I have no doubt that architects can and do add value to some projects but it is possible to do a fantastic remodel or build without one.


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## ice

The situation was that the builder came out and we discussed putting in an RSJ in a particular spot. He said we would need to get an engineer in before putting it in but he thought it wouldn't be a problem. He gave me a rough quote based on one rsj and after he was gone I thought 'god an archway would be nice there also'. So I got to dreaming and was conscious of my budget so thought I would post here to see if it would add much to the cost. I thought someone might say 'as a rough guide you are talking 1000 but you will of course need to get an engineer.


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## Sconhome

ice said:


> Is an RSJ expensive ?
> 
> We are looking at needing one about a 2 metres long. Any idea what sort of cost you would be looking at (labour and material)? We have a quote from a builder but are now thinking about adding an archway and just want to get an idea of how much extra it would cost
> 
> Thank you



Just to break the ice and bring this back to the question.

If you are thinking about an archway the loading will be completely different to that of the horizontal RSJ.

A horizontal beam transfers its load vertically through bearing pads on blockwork to the foundations or via vertical columns which in turn transfer to a system of foundation.

A curved beam will force lateral loads as well as vertical loads. As a direct comparison the curved works will likely be more expensive as heavier beams may be needed and lateral restraints included, as well as the cost of rolling the steel.

If I may suggest a horizontal beam placed higher in the structure, if possible, and through falsework an arch can be created in the additional headheight using timber stud work or similar.

Re costing its impossible to say other than the steel is relatively inexpensive. The factory costs of cutting to length, drilling, welding gussets, shot blasting, priming and preparing with intumescent paint can dramatically add to the costs.

Best thing to do is ask some engineering firms to cost up the design steelwork including placing on site. This can be compared to what your builder is charging for the same service. He will also be covering the charges of site attendance, opening up, making good etc that the engineer firm is not doing.

If the prices are reasonably close the recommendation would be to stick with the builder for the entire process. Certification etc should still be by an independent engineer.


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## OneAndOnly

I got a 3.7m 60kg I beam from a company off the Nass Road 2 weeks ago.  It was €300 delivered to D7.  Would have been cheaper if a cut wasn't required.

This was used as opening into new extension - it was spec'd and the installation monitored and then signed off by engineer for €600.


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## ice

Many thanks sconhome and oneandonly , I have a structural engineer coming out next week to look over the place and to see if what we want to do is possible, structurally wise. At least then I will know what we can and cant do. Thanks again, that info is great


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## onq

You have to keep a professional distance from people you employ.

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You need to get a simple set of plans drawn up and priced and you need to get at least three prices.
As soon as you start limiting yourself to one builder, you are doing yourself a serious disservice.
Reverse out of this one-on-one arrangement and get alternative quotations for the work.
You'll soon see the other side to the builder you've chosen if he's playing you.
If he's competent and earnest he will be back with a price.

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BTW, have you seen any archways built by this builder?
Also, if this is work to an external wall, you need to really look at your detailing and materials.
Steels in a hollow block external wall can give rise to a load of problems due to movement and attracting moisture.

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Re the plans you need to get the archway properly designed and do a series of wall elevations to scale to see this.
There are several ways to do an arch shape, and then there are the finish and materials to be used used - there are an infinite number of ways to mess one up.
Nothing worse than a lop-sided archway, one that's too "flat", one that's too close to the adjoining wall or ceiling, etc. and you need to get an idea of the look that you want before you send out for prices.

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As for seeking an engineer's advice on what is structurally possible to inform you about the archway design - sconhome has already told you the basics.
You need an architects advice on what is aesthetically possible and where it should be placed and what size it should be - after that look at the structure.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon   as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be   taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in   Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at   hand.


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## ajapale

OK, two poster have asked me to review this thread and Ive attempted to straighten it out.

Ice, you tagged your question onto an existing thread about whether or not you need a structural engineer or whether a builder would do. Its better if you start a new thread to discuss a new topic. Ive split it off now.

Ive deleted some personalised remarks and responses which in my opinion are not helpful.

Let me know by PM if this resolution is ok.

aj
moderator


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## onq

Thanks AJ


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## ice

From my part I took this thread off topic so apologies to the op. There were uncalled for comments from both myself and onq which have now been removed which is as it should be. Post in haste repent at leisure  we all have our trigger points and mine is perceived rudeness or a patronizing attitude but perhaps I hindsight I was too forceful in my orignal reply so my apologies to onq. I just didn't like the tone of the post but maybe no offence was meant.
Thank you to all who replied.


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## onq

I accept your apology and I offer my apology in turn Ice - no offence was meant, but I should have made no personal remarks.
It became pretty clear that you had had no real intention to upset the therad, but your initial comment looked like a troll.
That was why I responded the way I did and later why I asked the Mods to look at this thread to sort it out.

ONQ.


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## Pope John 11

Sconhome said:


> If I may suggest a horizontal beam placed higher in the structure, if possible, and through falsework an arch can be created in the additional headheight using timber stud work or similar.



I am assuming the OP is building a blockwork wall & require a steel beam across the ope. 

Avoid a situation where you have entirely two different components to your wall (ie. this case block work and timber). Eventually cracking will occur on the outer surface at the joint locations, owing to the two different properties of the materials.

If the OP requires an arch the use a curved lintel from 'Keystone' or 'Steelite'.

If its a horizontal head, is it not possible to use a precast head. If the span is larger then that for precast heads then use a steel head.

Obviously take some independent adivce from an engineer regarding same.


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