# Buying apartment in tourist hotspot to do airbnb



## Hollytrees (8 Aug 2017)

We hope to have 200k after the sale of our 2nd house which is an hour away from where we live and intend to invest it in a very busy tourist town nearby. We plan to do Airbnb. Has anyone invested in a property for airbnb and did it work out well?


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## noproblem (8 Aug 2017)

I notice you say, "We". Does this mean you are going to do this full time or are you guys going to get someone to run it?


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## Hollytrees (8 Aug 2017)

No we would run it ourselves


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## LS400 (8 Aug 2017)

Turning a property, or investing for the purposes of getting in on the Airb&b market is the new craze these days. 

My concern would be, if the rules specifically to Airb&b change, and there is every reason to believe this will be likely, will it still sustain as an investment property on its own merit.


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Which "rules" specific to airbnb are likely to change soon and why?


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## noproblem (9 Aug 2017)

I would imagine that single night lettings for fairly high money might lead to different rates on the property, councils/goverment may see it as a completely different business model to b/b, property standard may have to change, eg, fire escapes, parking, room size, etc. The person running it may have to re-train and if the powers that be decide that anything else needs to change they will introduce new laws pretty swiftly. A lot of airb/b owners have been spouting a fair bit about how much they're able to earn and it has brought attention to that market. We wait and see.


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## Tintagel (9 Aug 2017)

In Spain all rental properties now have to have air con and a local representative in case a problem arises. They also have to be registered and with a registration number.
Anything can happen down the road.


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

Some apartment developments are starting to clamp down on owners letting units via the likes of airbnb. 

As others have pointed out, this really could cause all sorts of problems.


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## Cervelo (9 Aug 2017)

Here is an article from the IT 

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/airbnb-ban-for-dublin-apartment-upheld-by-board-1.2835960

I've lived in a few apartments over the years including Temple Bar and it's one thing a person buying an apartment as an investment property for renting to long term renters
But I think I would have a big issue if the apartment next door to me was been used as an Airbnb short let property, mainly due to the increased traffic, noise and not knowing who's next door!!


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## LS400 (9 Aug 2017)

Like the OP,
I have the opportunity at this moment to buy an apartment in a very popular tourist town in Ireland. My first thoughts were for it to be an Airb&b investment, to get on the merry-go round. 
The fact that work colleagues, my mate the taxi driver, and relatives are all talking about the same "new" get rich quick scheme, and imo its day has come, and Im happy to let it slide.
As above posters have said, changes to the rules are more likely to happen than not.

Btw, this place would not be profitable as a long term contract letting.


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

I havent read or heard anything to suggest the "rules" around airbnb are going to "change" anytime soon. Fundamentally, and aside from the anecdotal stories mentioned above, its a good concept that allows joe soap earn a few euro extra from his spare room at a rate agreed with the renter.its also, imo, wrong to suggest that airbnb rentals are contributing to the homeless crisis, which is something that has been in the media recently. I say leave airbnb alone, in general its doing no harm. Theree might be exceptional examples where an apt is being let continuously to different people amd this is causing grief for neighbours etc (temple bar examaple) but thats something that should be sorted out at a micro level not a macro policy level.the government etc should concern themselves more with facilitating the supply of houses.this is why i dont see any airbnb rule changes coming down the tracks.


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## T McGibney (9 Aug 2017)

This kind of thing will always make money for professional operators with backgrounds in the hospitality & self-catering sectors. It is perilous ground for novices.

Talk of the State clamping down on Airbnb is just guff. They'd never get away with that.


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

jim said:


> imo, wrong to suggest that airbnb rentals are contributing to the homeless crisis, which is something that has been in the media recently.



I think it has some merit, and is at least affecting the number of properties available for rent. The reports back in April pointed to only 4 properties being available to let in Swords down from a pre-airbnb typical figure of ~250. At the same time, an airbnb search stopped at the max 300 results for short term lets.


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## T McGibney (9 Aug 2017)

Leo said:


> At the same time, an airbnb search stopped at the max 300 results for short term lets.


In Swords?

Only 3 in the Swords area listed when I searched just now for Swords for 26-29 September. One of these is described as being in Malahide.

A search for 16-18 October (being "Days with a ·dot have the most available homes")  shows 9 properties in Swords.


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## LS400 (9 Aug 2017)

Its the Novices who are driving the popularity or the Airbnb, and its only Guff untill new rules and regulations are brought in. Also, to say it hasn't or will not effect the availability of properties to rent long term, is sticking ones head in the sand.


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## T McGibney (9 Aug 2017)

LS400 said:


> Its the Novices who are driving the popularity or the Airbnb, and its only Guff untill new rules and regulations are brought in. Also, to say it hasn't or will not effect the availability of properties to rent long term, is sticking ones head in the sand.



It's actually the demand from tourists that's driving Airbnb's popularity. This isn't happening in isolation, hotels and B&Bs are doing well too.

Our strong tourism sector is a great success story for our economy. Thankfully, the government cannot afford to wreck it. 

Airbnb wouldn't be mentioned as an issue had not a deliberate and co-ordinated government policy strategy made such a disastrous mess of housing supply.


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Airbnb has nothing to do with the homeless crisis. The crisis is a result of a lack of affordable and suitable housing for those the are homeless and this is due to a combination of government policy and builders not building. the root causes of the crisis is here, not with not airbnb. 

Airbnb is somehow being made a scapegoat in all of this and its wrong to even suggest that airbnb is contributing to the crisis. Its not. in the same way that joe soap deciding to rent his spare bedroom to a student is not contributing to homelessness. Its simply the choice of individuals as to how they rent their spare room. The reality is the vast majority of airbnb hosts that are renting a room in their house to a tourist for 1 week at an agreed price (and is paying tax on this) are simply supplementing their income in a way that benefits them the tourist and the government through tax. They would not ever have rented their room to a homeless person or family so its not comparing like with like.

The homeless crisis is a far bigger and wider problem that needs to be solved by building appropriate housing and the government making appropriate policy. Airbnb is not the cause nor the solution and to suggets that it is is wrong.


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

T McGibney said:


> In Swords?
> 
> Only 3 in the Swords area listed when I searched just now for Swords for 26-29 September. One of these is described as being in Malahide.
> 
> A search for 16-18 October (being "Days with a ·dot have the most available homes")  shows 9 properties in Swords.



Yes, but as I mentioned, the numbers are from April.

I've just run a Swords search for 16-18 Oct. on airbnb and it lists 51 results for entire home, 300+ total results, though not all are actually in Swords.


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## Early Riser (9 Aug 2017)

As referred to above, Airbnb seems to be a very hot issue in some parts of Spain at least, with street protests and occupations. There was a head-honcho from Airbnb interviewed on the box about this recently and he said he recognised that there were some problems. He attributed this to it being a new business model and that regulations had yet to catch up with it properly. In relation to the Spanish situation he seemed to be advocating that people involved in letting multiple units should be restricted.

It seemed to me that Airbnb recognise that some form of regulation is inevitable and they are trying to get involved so as to influence (ie, restrict) it. But if Airbnb themselves are calling for regulation of some kind , it does seem inevitable somewhere down the line.


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## T McGibney (9 Aug 2017)

Leo said:


> Yes, but as I mentioned, the numbers are from April.
> 
> I've just run a Swords search for 16-18 Oct. on airbnb and it lists 51 results for entire home, 300+ total results, *though not all are actually in Swords*.


Quite. Almost all the results I get when I run that search are not in Swords. Some are as far south as the IFSC.

You said earlier that Swords had 300 short term lets.


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Where is Airbnb calling for regulation? Can you post a link? I dont think they are unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

What needs to be done is airbnb themselves need to regulate/restrict/monitor etc those individuals that are causing problems for others through their hosting. Airbnb the platform doesnt need to be regulated by governments in the same way that facebook doesnt need to be. Governments have better things to be doing. As long as individuals pay their tax then governemnts should leave the management/policing/monitoring etc of the platform to airbnb itself.

If individuals want to have multiple lettings then so be it, its a free world. If, as part of having multiple lettings, they are annoying others then it is uP to airbnb, the host and the aggrieved parties to sort it out. The government has no business in getting involved in this and making more laws and policies.


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## Sarenco (9 Aug 2017)

jim said:


> Where is Airbnb calling for regulation? Can you post a link? I dont think they are unless you can demonstrate otherwise.



Airbnb calls for clear regulation of home-sharing in Ireland –
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/20...ls-for-regulation-of-home-sharing-in-ireland/


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

T McGibney said:


> You said earlier that Swords had 300 short term lets.



I also said April


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Thanks sarenco. Fair enough thats pretty definitive!

However i refer back to my 1st post in this forum and im not seeing the answer in that article.

What is driving the call for new regulation?

What new regulation is required or being proposed?


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Username mentioned above some reasons why he thinks there should be regulations but isnt this just more unnesseray red tApe? He mentioned parking, fire escapes? Really? Regulation for these things? Also, so what if someone earns a bit more from using airbnb? Who cares? The only issue as i see it with airbnb is when there is abuse of the platform ie the temple bar example. In that case it should be dealt with by airbnb and not by government regulation.

There is no actual need to regulate airbnb and surely this is all just a bit of hot air.


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## Early Riser (9 Aug 2017)

jim said:


> _Where is Airbnb calling for regulation? Can you post a link? I dont think they are unless you can demonstrate otherwise.[_/QUOTE]
> 
> The Airbnb guy was interviewed in the first part of a BBC documentary shown last Sunday evening - called _"Secrets of Silicon Valley"_. It was about the "disruption" of traditional business models by the new Tech Giants (not only Airbnb). He attributed the problems and protests in Barcelona to regulation not having caught up with the new business model. He specifically referred to limiting multiple letters. My interpretation was that he saw regulation as inevitable (at least in that market) and he was trying to limit the extent of it.


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## Early Riser (9 Aug 2017)

The Airbnb guy was interviewed in the first part of a BBC documentary shown last Sunday evening - called _"Secrets of Silicon Valley"_. It was about the "disruption" of traditional business models by the new Tech Giants (not only Airbnb). He attributed the problems and protests in Barcelona to regulation not having caught up with the new business model. He specifically referred to limiting multiple letters. My interpretation was that he saw regulation as inevitable (at least in that market) and he was trying to limit the extent of it.


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## jim (9 Aug 2017)

Thanks easyrider.

Disruption to traditional markets is a good thing, imo.

What exactly were the protests over? Whatever it was, could it not be something that airbnb themselves police without the need for government interference?

Even the limiting multihosts (or whatever theyre called), surely thats something airbnb should be doing.

My whole prob with this is the call for government regulation. I think thats just not necessary and ultimately wont happen at least in ireland


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## T McGibney (9 Aug 2017)

Leo said:


> I also said April



I know that. You're seriously suggesting 80%-90% of these have disappeared in 5/6 months?


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## Early Riser (9 Aug 2017)

jim said:


> What exactly were the protests over



jim - it was only one section of the programme so not very detailed. The main emphasis of the protesters, though, was that Airbnb was forcing up rents and limiting availability for locals/natives in the city and pushing them out.


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

T McGibney said:


> I know that. You're seriously suggesting 80%-90% of these have disappeared in 5/6 months?



Where did I suggest that?


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## Leo (9 Aug 2017)

Back to the OPs issue, the potential for this Bord Pleanala ruling to be applied widely should be considered. 

DCC are currently assessing the impact airbnb has had on the rental market with a report to be published in October with recommendations on how to address.


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## Early Riser (10 Aug 2017)

Regarding Spain and the regulation issue I have found these quotes :

_On Wednesday, Barcelona’s councilor for city planning, Janet Sanz, said she planned to visit Montse Pérez and stated that Airbnb was the only platform that continues to post adverts for properties without the relevant paperwork.


“The message to Airbnb is clear: enough is enough. The question is no longer who is right or wrong: the problem is Airbnb is hurting locals by [broken link removed] and [hurting] small property owners. Those who don’t comply [with the law] are going to come up against an administration that is on the side of the locals and defending their rights,” said Sanz.

*Peter Huntingford, public affairs spokesman for Airbnb*, categorically denied claims it had not cooperated with Barcelona. “We are committed to being good partners to cities and have worked closely with officials in city hall and the Generalitat [regional government],” he said. 


*“Legislation needs to differentiate between regular people sharing their homes and professionals running a business. *_


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## jdwex (10 Aug 2017)

Whatever about government regulations the OMC may have an issue with short term lettings. I think there was an injunction given in the south west of the country against someone doing short term lets in a development


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## T McGibney (10 Aug 2017)

Leo said:


> Where did I suggest that?


You suggested Swords had over 300 properties on Airbnb in April. By July it's 50.


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## Leo (10 Aug 2017)

T McGibney said:


> You suggested Swords had over 300 properties on Airbnb in April. By July it's 50.



You do know they include individual rooms in their results? It's now August, and I stated '51 results for entire home, 300+ total results'


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## T McGibney (10 Aug 2017)

Leo said:


> You do know they include individual rooms in their results? It's now August, and I stated '51 results for entire home, 300+ total results'


Indeed. Hence I'm puzzled why you said this.



Leo said:


> I think it has some merit, and is at least affecting the number of properties available for rent. The reports back in April pointed to only 4 properties being available to let in Swords down from a pre-airbnb typical figure of ~250. At the same time, an airbnb search stopped at the max 300 results for short term lets.


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## Leo (10 Aug 2017)

I'm not seeing what's puzzling with that? There was some news coverage at the time and a thread here which said that a few years ago, the number of properties available to let in Swords on the likes of Daft at any one time was typically ~250, at the time they reported only 4 being available on Daft. 

The suggestion was that airbnb was having an impact on the number of unit available for longer term lets. No one said that they'd still expect the total number of properties to be around the 250 mark today, just that there was an impact.


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## T McGibney (10 Aug 2017)

Sounds like fake news. It's no surprise that the supply of rented properties in Swords has collapsed dramatically but to talk of it being "down from a pre-airbnb typical figure" is totally misleading.


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## Leo (10 Aug 2017)

It is a factor, it's just not the only factor. I think most commentators are also wise enough to point out that a significant factor in the popularity of listing properties on airbnb is the onerous and ever increasing requirements placed on landlords through legislation changes over the past few years.


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