# The deadline for submissions on reducing the bankruptcy term extended to Friday 26thJune



## Matthew Moore (6 Jun 2015)

The committee examining the reduction of the bankruptcy term from 3 years to 1 year have requested submissions on the proposal from the public. Submissions are due by the 19th of June and should be sent to bankruptcyreview@oireachtas.ie.

This is a great chance to have your say; make the most of it. Whether you are currently bankrupt, considering bankruptcy, have friends or family who are dealing with debt or maybe you feel that a reduction is a bad idea, get your opinion in.



More details here> http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament...s_list/jde-committee/submissionsonbankruptcy/


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Jun 2015)

I would encourage those of you who have experience in this area e.g. those who have considered bankruptcy to make a submission. 

If you have gone to the UK to avail of the one year there, instead of the three years here, then that would be an interesting submission.


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Jun 2015)

It seems that the main purpose of the proposed reduction is to help people keep the family home. I will update and  submit my summary of The Family Home in Bankruptcy as part of my submission.

*The family home in bankruptcy*


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Jun 2015)

Has any organisation published a good balanced review of the proposal? The pros and cons?


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## Silvio Dante (8 Jun 2015)

pat2 said:


> The committee examining the reduction of the bankruptcy term from 3 years to 1 year have requested submissions on the proposal from the public. Submissions are due by the 19th of June and should be sent to bankruptcyreview@oireachtas.ie.
> 
> This is a great chance to have your say; make the most of it. Whether you are currently bankrupt, considering bankruptcy, have friends or family who are dealing with debt or maybe you feel that a reduction is a bad idea, get your opinion in.
> 
> ...



Thank You pat2
I will make a  submission for sure.


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## Silvio Dante (8 Jun 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It seems that the main purpose of the proposed reduction is to help people keep the family home. I will update and  submit my summary of The Family Home in Bankruptcy as part of my submission.
> 
> *The family home in bankruptcy*



Brendan,

I have had communication with Willie Penrose (bill proposer) since March on this and I feel this area has been deliberately over egged by those who want to stop the move to one year.
It's not that it isn't an issue but we all know in many instances the house has to go and 1 year wont make that stat change drastically.
This fact has been seized upon by elements opposed to the change within Fine Gael and the DOF. The Taoiseach infuriated the bill supporters by saying "changing to one year isn't a panacea"
No one, including the bill's supporters ever remotely inferred this and I hope the Finance Committee isn't so short sighted to see that some elements want the debate to be a narrow one solely focused on whether it helps one keep the family home.


In his replies to me Willie Penrose was much more focused on the human element
* Bankrupts were usually unemployed and bankruptcy was/is a millstone in regaining employment
* Lack of incentive to go back to work even if attainable as your earnings will be garnished
* The toll a prolonged bankruptcy has on the mental health of the bankrupt and his/her family (Separation, loneliness, lack of esteem, depression and even suicide is common)
* The stigma of bankruptcy and the insistence there must be a punishment/purgatorial element to it above and beyond the handover of all remaining assets needs to be largely removed. This undoubtedly still exists here but not in UK and US. 

Penrose is also a firm believer that many who are bankrupted are at heart risk taking entrepreneurs who need to get back in the game
Finally Penrose simply believes it is nonsense to have a bankruptcy period of 3 years in Dublin and 1 year 60 miles up the road.

As regards pros and cons
Interestingly Chris Lehane was in with Finance Committee last week and while clearly not allowed indicate what he would prefer (1 or 3) concurred with much of Willie Penrose's sentiments that a shorter period undoubtedly would have a significant positive impact on the debtor's outlook, mental health and ability to take it on the chin and bounce back.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Jun 2015)

If anyone is planning to make a submission, get your skates on. 

Brendan


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## Stuboy (18 Jun 2015)

Brendan, I'll mail you over my draft later this afternoon.


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## Silvio Dante (18 Jun 2015)

I am finalising my submission at present but forgot to post this a few days ago after Brendan had said some of the points might be useful





Hi Brendan,

I am down in South East and connection ropey so could be tomorrow evening by time I get back with something decent.
I think a consensus is forming that committee needs to see that the period is somewhat moot.
A cooperative bankrupt should be discharged as soon as OA has dealt with his affairs but no longer than a year.

My only reservation with leaving discretion with OA is I have a fear of inherent human bias.
My dealings with OA have been positive and the tone is set at your initial meeting.
But remember the initial meeting usually takes place within hours of adjudication and in some instances bankrupts might be in a bad state and leave a bad impression with OA 
Secondly creditors can often be very spiteful and constantly be ringing OA with lurid rumours that bankrupt has gold bars hidden in a vault somewhere.
I know a fellow bankrupt who is completely skint but his principal creditor is constantly ringing OA with rubbish allegations.

I think if OA is to have discretion he should have to say as early as the statutory sitting that he is very confident the bankrupt has cooperated fully and will be a candidate for early discharge.
This would save the bankrupt finding out say after 11 months that OA is going to hold him up because a creditor is screaming blue murder.

I will be including an interesting exchange I had with BOI where KBC accidentally paid 75 euro into my old current account.
When I asked for it to be sent to me and inform OA she replied she'd "reluctantly send it to but if it happens again I will keep it and put it against the money you owe US"
I'm thick skinned but she spoke to me like I was a 3rd class citizen even after I had calmly said she was being unreasonable and probably breaking the law (sequestering funds of a bankrupt without OA approval) and how I had given hundreds of k to BOI over 23 years banking with them and they were only being sadddled with 13k in total.
This is the big battle, changing the stigma and finger pointing attitude.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Jun 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> I will be including an interesting exchange I had with BOI where KBC accidentally paid 75 euro into my old current account.
> When I asked for it to be sent to me and inform OA she replied she'd "reluctantly send it to but if it happens again I will keep it and put it against the money you owe US"



Hi Silvio

I think that your fundamental points are so good, you should not let them get distracted, by irrelevancies, even if they are interesting or funny. 

The shorter the submission the better. The members will get a lot of submissions.

Brendan


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## Silvio Dante (18 Jun 2015)

Thank you Brendan, noted and agree


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## breadandjam (18 Jun 2015)

Bankruptcy should be a chance to start again. If the person has honestly surrendered everything they have, and I include their home and business and all assets, as I have. That should be the end and they should be free to build up again. There should be no term of bankruptcy, they should be discharged immediately. The reason is they then have the chance to recover financially and contribute to society again. Earn money and pay tax. The Rentiers have too much power under the chaotic system we are labouring under so any attempt to improve it is welcome. I am currently in the UK attempting to start again. I handed over everything, I felt that was the right thing to do. I am not morally bankrupt. I do not think it is in the best interest of the country to allow those owed money to pursue individuals for as long as they wish. I also think someone who has underwent bankruptcy has been "punished" enough. Being in the UK gives me some breathing space and a sense of a future. Debt will cripple us forever as a country. The only solution is to break the cycle and allow bankruptcy to mean just that. The last resort, but a new start.


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## Silvio Dante (19 Jun 2015)

All,

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament...s_list/jde-committee/submissionsonbankruptcy/
Deadline has been extended to next Friday 28th June 3pm

I would guess this indicates a high volume of submissions to date


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## Stuboy (19 Jun 2015)

Silvio,

It still says June 19th on that page.


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## Silvio Dante (19 Jun 2015)

*Submissions invited on the period for bankruptcy (Closing date extended)*
The Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality has decided to invite written submissions from interested groups or individuals in relation to arguments in favour of and against reducing the period of bankruptcy from three years to one year.

Written submissions should be sent electronically by email (MS Word or equivalent) and should be received not later than 3pm on *Friday 26 June 2015* at the following email address only: bankruptcyreview@oireachtas.ie



Something weird going on with link.
Going to ring for clarification


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## Silvio Dante (19 Jun 2015)

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/jde-committee/

see attached which confirms extension (box in middle of page) to June 26th
However when you click page it seems to be defaulting back to 19th June version
For avoidance of confusion, I spoke with clerk and he has confirmed the extensiona and will see what is happening with link


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## Matthew Moore (19 Jun 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/jde-committee/
> 
> see attached which confirms extension (box in middle of page) to June 26th
> However when you click page it seems to be defaulting back to 19th June version
> For avoidance of confusion, I spoke with clerk and he has confirmed the extensiona and will see what is happening with link



Thanks!

Was just about to send. Think I'll hold off now till next week and put a bit more meat on the bones.


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## Stuboy (26 Jun 2015)

Have just submitted my cover letter and main submission as PDF.
Good luck to anyone making their submission.


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## MikeL2007 (26 Jun 2015)

We are 1.5 years through the 3 year bankruptcy term and I submitted to the committee back in early June.  If you heard some of the things we're being told by the ISI and the OA you'd think twice about entering the process.  Our main points were:

·  Ability to get back spending in the economy

·  Hugely restricted from a Career perspective

·  Lack of clarity around blanket implementation of 2 year payment order when entering the process

·  Lack of flexibility from the ISI with regards to income proposals

·  Term prevents us from expanding our family

Our submission was 3 pages long so hopefully our submissions along with others will help to convince the committee to recommend.  Knowing how slowly these things run, it won't make t back to the Dail till after the Summer break anyways.

MikeL


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## Silvio Dante (26 Jun 2015)

Mike,

Well done on submission.
The committee has been mandated to return a recommendation before the summer recess and I expect it to be a positive one (the will is there across a very large majority of Oireachtas members to pass this)
If so, it will be law by late October and you should be discharged around Jan (anyone who has completed at least one year will be subject to just 3 further months post bill passing into law).

Good luck to all, this has been a very good few weeks getting people here energised and focused.


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## Nobizere (26 Jun 2015)

Silvio, I hope you're right, and those Oireachtas members in favour aren't whipped into shape by the conservatives at the top of FG.
Not being in bankruptcy, and not knowing what may or may not be relevant, my submission was simply about society in general and job creation. Somebody once told me that supporting documentation works well on these things so I added this to my submission.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=762144

It's a 2008 study and report showing the how a "forgiving" bankruptcy regimes can increase the supply of would-be entrepreneurs.


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## MikeL2007 (26 Jun 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> Mike,
> 
> Well done on submission.
> The committee has been mandated to return a recommendation before the summer recess and I expect it to be a positive one (the will is there across a very large majority of Oireachtas members to pass this)
> ...



Thanks Silvio, I really hope you're right.  We like so many others had to make this decision purely down to negative equity and it's impact, we didn't gamble big and lose big, just happened to buy property at the wrong time.  We really feel we've served enough time in 'purgatory'


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## MikeL2007 (29 Jun 2015)

Hi all,

Am I right in reading the Oireachtais website that the Summer recess is on July 17?

Regards
Mike


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jun 2015)

It's around then ok. Maybe the Committee will continue working throughout the summer to demonstrate what an important issue this is. 

Brendan


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