# Paul Galvin incident.



## Ash 22 (24 Jul 2008)

What do those of you sports minded people think of this whole affair?


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## bamboozle (24 Jul 2008)

he knocked a referees notebook out of his hands, he deserves at least 6 months, he's meant to be captain of Kerry, a rolemodel to kids in the county and throughout the country.
i'll always remember him headbutting paul casey in the all ireland semi final last year when the ball was the other end of the pitch and thought to myself he was a pure thug.


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## Teabag (24 Jul 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> What do those of you sports minded people think of this whole affair?



The GAA disciplinary system is an absolute shambles. They make the FAI look good.
It's certainly the most amateur sporting organisation in Ireland...


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## Jock04 (24 Jul 2008)

He should've taken his punishment like the big hard man he likes to portray himself as  (on the field).


The entire appeals process has been tiresome, and ultimately farcical.


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## Green (24 Jul 2008)

Teabag said:


> The GAA disciplinary system is an absolute shambles. ...


 
I would agree but there doesn't seem to be the will in the GAA to change the system. I think that counties are reluctant to change it as they might be able to use procedural defects in the system to get their players off punishment. 

Every year there is another incident, Dublin v Tyrone in Healy Park, the Galway hurler last year, and many others I'm sure and nothing concrete ever seems to be done. If you do nothing then the farce that is the Galvin affair will always happen. Incidentally he deserves his six months. Also, if you look at rugby referees have more control and the players/organisation appear to task the referees/discipline more seriously.


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## Ash 22 (24 Jul 2008)

He's one of these players that gets in all these sneaky punches etc., but at the end of the day I must say I'm feeling a bit sorry for him. Of course what he did was wrong and he deserved a suspension but I think he was given too long. I suppose why I really feel sorry for him is the fact of he being the Kerry captain and its a chance more than likely he'll never get again. He must be feeling sick as a parrot at this stage.  I think what Sean Og O'Hailpin did to the Galway player last week was actually much worse and he got away with it.


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## Brianne (24 Jul 2008)

The whole thing is a joke,he is a bad role model and should be off for the rest of the season but the usual GAA heads will come out in his defence.From personal experience , that behaviour is condoned and the old saying about the GAA comes to mind when you see this carry on being tolerated.A game for ..... played by ........, and its their own  fault if some of us believe there's a lot of truth in that saying. I fail to see the values that this kind of behaviour pass on to youngsters.


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## fredg (24 Jul 2008)

the GAA is a laughing stock after this.with all the 
discipline hoops a player goes through they then turn
around and say,back to the start again???
he was a bad choice as a captain anyway,
far too hot headed.i love the GAA v v much
but sometimes they make me cringe.doubt hell play
this season now.
Fredg.


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## ClubMan (24 Jul 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> What do those of you sports minded people think of this whole affair?


Nothing. But then my preferred sport is a "foreign game".


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## z105 (24 Jul 2008)

> Nothing. But then my preferred sport is a "foreign game".



What, Gaelic football ?


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## Ceist Beag (25 Jul 2008)

The sad thing for me about this lad is that he's a schoolteacher! What sort of example does he set each time he lets his temper get the better of him? You think he'd have a bit more cop on. Think 6 months is a bit much but I've no sympathy for him as he's got away with plenty before. I just wish players and county boards would accept their punishment and not resort to endless appeals as it's making a farce of the whole discipline in the game.


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## oldtimer (25 Jul 2008)

Its referee Paddy Russell I feel sorry for. He has been innocently involved in quite a few nasty incidents over the years. Wasn't he the ref who sent off a Dublin player in an All-Ireland final and the player continued to play on? Then the player went on the Late Late Show and made a laugh of the incident?  Wasn't Paddy Russell the referee in charge of the free for all between Dublin and Tyrone? Do I recall all the guilty players got away with that - not one suspension. And now this guy slaps the book out of his hand and every effort been made to excuse this.


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## MrMan (25 Jul 2008)

Ceist Beag said:


> The sad thing for me about this lad is that he's a schoolteacher! What sort of example does he set each time he lets his temper get the better of him? You think he'd have a bit more cop on. Think 6 months is a bit much but I've no sympathy for him as he's got away with plenty before. I just wish players and county boards would accept their punishment and not resort to endless appeals as it's making a farce of the whole discipline in the game.



I think we take the whole role model thing too far because people tend to be very different on and off the pitch. He might like the hard man image but I'm sure that its part of his mental approach to the game, it's hard to gear yourself up for 70 mins of a hard game and even though his behaviour is at times unacceptable it's understandable.


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## Betsy Og (25 Jul 2008)

ok its not a great outcome but it hardly makes a farce of the entire organisation.

now if you went away on your biggest event in 4 years (or 10 or so as it happens) and brought no footballs and trained on a carpark and had a joke of a domestic league, can barely pay for half a stadium with multiples of the grants you begrudged others then you'd be ......... the FAI.

So lets not take this sideshow out of context in terms of what it means for the GAA.

p.s. I'm not anti-soccer as such, but darned if I'll take lip from the soccer crowd.


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2008)

Why do many people assume that sports people are or should be role models for others - especially kids - or that sport necessarily imparts good character traits? Heard a repeat on _Newstalk _last night about this book which might be interesting reading. Many of the professional or serious amateur sports people who I've come across tend to be pretty single minded, self centered, selfish people with shallow personalities and few interests outside of their sporting sphere. Usually of necessity when it comes to serious participation in competitive individual or team sports. The cyclists were the worst! Headcases!


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## Mpsox (25 Jul 2008)

My understanding is that he is charged under GAA rules with minor interferrance with a referree and that carries an automatic 3 month ban. The issue therefore is why the disciplinary bodies gave him a 6 month one. 

The GAA could help themselves if they were more public about their deliberations around their processes. For example, why did they not explain why he got 6 months?

It's the county boards I detest on this, try and complain about a club suspicion or procedures to them and you often get no where yet they are ther first to go running seeking loopholes and intercounty level

It would be great if the next player who gets involved in an incident like this accepted responsibility and told his board not to appeal

Have to say, it'll be interesting to see the referees reaction if he is cleared


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> p.s. I'm not anti-soccer as such, but darned if I'll take lip from the soccer crowd.


At least we don't lock referees in the boot of a car!


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## bamboozle (25 Jul 2008)

oldtimer said:


> Its referee Paddy Russell I feel sorry for. He has been innocently involved in quite a few nasty incidents over the years. Wasn't he the ref who sent off a Dublin player in an All-Ireland final and the player continued to play on? Then the player went on the Late Late Show and made a laugh of the incident? Wasn't Paddy Russell the referee in charge of the free for all between Dublin and Tyrone? Do I recall all the guilty players got away with that - not one suspension. And now this guy slaps the book out of his hand and every effort been made to excuse this.


 
Russell was also in charge of the Dublin Meath league match earlier this year where there was a bit of fisty cuffs!


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## Mpsox (25 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> At least we don't lock referees in the boot of a car!


 
Of course not, soccer players are far too busy rolling over on the ground in agony after falling over a blade of grass. Plus all the effort in picking him up and throwing him in the boot might upset their hair


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## Betsy Og (25 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> At least we don't lock referees in the boot of a car!


 
Hi, I didnt get through Irish soccer's Hall of Shame at all yet. I could be here for the day but for starters how about:


cringeworthy aping of english soccer chants, with put-on english accents
crowd violence (some SRFC supporters attempts to have an "inter-city firm" set up, plus random lunatics from other clubs breaking windows accross the North etc.)
stadia which barely surpass rural parish GAA stadia
relentless talking up of dross in an attempt to garner some public interest or relevance
national heroes who never set foot in the place before they played for the country, & (Ray Houghton step forward) who go on national talkshows to explain how "as a Scotsman" it was great to score against England - could you not keep up the pretence that you're an Irishman when you put on the jersey
"stars" who wont sign autographs for kids
and p.s. the ref deserved it  (only joking, I admit thats one area we're a fair way to go yet - even the testicle stamping eye gouging mullockers who go egg chasing respect the ref)


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## Sunny (25 Jul 2008)

How about

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Or



Or

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Or

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Of course violence is accepted in the GAA until the Aussies do it and show the GAA guys that they are the not the hard men they thought they were and then suddenly we are throwing our toys out of the pram

This could go on and on but whats the point. By the way I love both GAA and soccer but I am not blinded to either sports faults.


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## Ash 22 (25 Jul 2008)

Mpsox said:


> My understanding is that he is charged under GAA rules with minor interferrance with a referree and that carries an automatic 3 month ban. The issue therefore is why the disciplinary bodies gave him a 6 month one.
> 
> The GAA could help themselves if they were more public about their deliberations around their processes. For example, why did they not explain why he got 6 months?
> 
> ...


 

A few years back Waterford hurler John Mullane was put off, served his suspension, came back all the better for it. Probably cost that county dearly that year. Fair play to him.


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## Ceist Beag (25 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Why do many people assume that sports people are or should be role models for others - especially kids - or that sport necessarily imparts good character traits?



Not sure anyone said sport imparts good character traits Clubman but I think any person with a public profile can be looked up to as a role model, not just sports people. But sports people are generally looked up to as a lot of kids pretend to be that person or want to emulate them, be it in the school playground or park. So for a school teacher to act as stupidly as Mr Galvin regularly does is IMHO a poor reflection of himself as a person and as captain of the team even more so.


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## MrMan (25 Jul 2008)

> cringeworthy aping of english soccer chants, with put-on english accents



Also to be heard at GAA grounds.



> crowd violence (some SRFC supporters attempts to have an "inter-city firm" set up, plus random lunatics from other clubs breaking windows accross the North etc.)


I don't think its a scourge on the sport but soccer does have more instances than GAA alright (GAA violence is usually on the pitch).



> stadia which barely surpass rural parish GAA stadia


True



> national heroes who never set foot in the place before they played for the country, & (Ray Houghton step forward) who go on national talkshows to explain how "as a Scotsman" it was great to score against England - could you not keep up the pretence that you're an Irishman when you put on the jersey


There tends to be a bigger pool of players in an international sport rather than the localised national games. Its hard enought o be accepted in some parish clubs whilst living there not to mind coming from a different country and in fairness to soccer, the granny rule isn't quite as (used/abused) anymore primarily down to the fact that we are now sending so many players to the english game now.



> "stars" who wont sign autographs for kids


Depends on the player in any sport, i don't think any particular sport is worse than others. 

I too like both GAA and soccer but GAA does tend to get a bit preachy and soccer people also have a tendency to have a go at 'the muckers'.


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> some SRFC supporters attempts to have an "inter-city firm" set up


Far be it from me to defend the enemy but do you actually have any hard evidence for this?


> relentless talking up of dross in an attempt to garner some public interest or relevance


Huh!? 


> national heroes who never set foot in the place before they played for the country, & (Ray Houghton step forward) who go on national talkshows to explain how "as a Scotsman" it was great to score against England - could you not keep up the pretence that you're an Irishman when you put on the jersey


Actually my own preference is for the domestic league rather than the national team as it happens.


> "stars" who wont sign autographs for kids


Not sure what you're on about.


> and p.s. the ref deserved it  (only joking, I admit thats one area we're a fair way to go yet - even the testicle stamping eye gouging mullockers who go egg chasing respect the ref)


But apart from sporadic lynch mobs pursuing officials that _GAA _is superior to soccer. Super!


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## Betsy Og (27 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Far be it from me to defend the enemy but do you actually have any hard evidence for this?
> 
> Its common knowledge that SRFC has a hooligan element - is this in question? I can rake the press for few incidents if you really want.
> 
> ...


 
You're referring to one incident there, 2 tops. Even 2 in 124 years is hardly sporadic.

Just on way home from a classic double header in Thurles - no need to argue anymore  ...........


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## Green (30 Jul 2008)

I see Paul Galvin has had his ban cut in half, now three months. Would be still eligible for All Ireland final if Kerry progress.


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## Ash 22 (30 Jul 2008)

Yes he should be happy with that.


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## Green (30 Jul 2008)

The tide turned for him after the DRA ruling. Then the GAA, as usual, having made a mess of it had to do something for him.


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## Ash 22 (30 Jul 2008)

Well if he has'nt learned a lesson out of all this ---It will be pretty interesting to keep watch.


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## Mpsox (30 Jul 2008)

The reality is that the GAA messed up the first time by giving him the wrong suspension according to their rules. He appealed and correctly won

Does not disguise the fact that what he did was completly wrong. Not the first time he has been sent off and probably won't be the last either


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## Betsy Og (30 Jul 2008)

3 months is probably sufficient for the particular offence, the general lack of sympathy re the 6 months ban was because of the "form" of the individual involved.

Might be academic anyway - Monaghan who threw it away last year against Kerry might finish the job this year - think its this week they meet.


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## Joe1234 (30 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Might be academic anyway - Monaghan who threw it away last year against Kerry might finish the job this year - think its this week they meet.



Lets hope so    They meet on Sunday.


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## Green (31 Jul 2008)

[broken link removed]

See another incident following the Munster under 21 Hurling final last night, umpire was jostled and had to be escorted by Gardai off the field.


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## Betsy Og (31 Jul 2008)

YOBR said:


> [broken link removed]
> 
> See another incident following the Munster under 21 Hurling final last night, umpire was jostled and had to be escorted by Gardai off the field.


 

I'm against crowd intimidation of officials, its quite unacceptable, the umpire in question should be tried before the CAC, CCCC, DRA before being shipped to Singapore for 6 lashes of the bamboo, the f***in ape.


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## Simeon (31 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Why do many people assume that sports people are or should be role models for others - especially kids - or that sport necessarily imparts good character traits? Heard a repeat on _Newstalk _last night about this book which might be interesting reading. Many of the professional or serious amateur sports people who I've come across tend to be pretty single minded, self centered, selfish people with shallow personalities and few interests outside of their sporting sphere. Usually of necessity when it comes to serious participation in competitive individual or team sports. The cyclists were the worst! Headcases!



Bravo Clubman! I have yet to meet a sportsman/woman who, lets say, would NOT go outside of the rule remit in the pursuit of glory. That is why you have  referees, action replays, sin bins etc. The 'it's not the winning it's the taking part' thing is rubbish. Incidentally, you seem to have started a run on the book ............


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## Green (31 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> I'm against crowd intimidation of officials, its quite unacceptable, the umpire in question should be tried before the CAC, CCCC, DRA before being shipped to Singapore for 6 lashes of the bamboo, the f***in ape.


 
I take it your a Clare supporter so? I dont see why the GAA, for championship matches only, don't have the TMO (technical match official) that they have in rugby. Technology would cut out a lot of the was it wasn't it a point/goal arguments that seem to crop up.


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## The_Banker (31 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> I'm against crowd intimidation of officials, its quite unacceptable, the umpire in question should be tried before the CAC, CCCC, DRA before being shipped to Singapore for 6 lashes of the bamboo, the f***in ape.


 
I take it you were against his decision?
Whatever he did he didn't deserve to have a baying mob trying to get at him. Nor did the female Garda (back of todays Indo) deserve the punch in the face while escorting him from the ground.

As a Cork GAA fan and a Cork City FC supporter I watch and enjoy both codes. There are positives and negatives in both sports.

The GAA players (I believe) should accept there punishment just like in all other sports and the endless appeals simply makes referees decisions meaningless.
John Mullane of Waterford has a bit of a reputation but he took his punishment like a man a few years back. I am sure players also have little say in whether they will appeal or not as the County Board will push the appeals process to the limit, as what happened with many a Cork GAA player in the past (the County Secretary using his influence to get the player off on a "technicality").

I don't know what your point is towards League of Ireland grounds? Yes, they are poor but maybe if the individual clubs didn't have to pay the players then they could put the money into the ground?
Pairc Ui Chaoimh (nicknamed Pairc Ui Squeeze) in Cork, while a big ground it is severally out of date and there will be someone killed there someday if it isn't sorted out.


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## The_Banker (31 Jul 2008)

YOBR said:


> I take it your a Clare supporter so? I dont see why the GAA, for championship matches only, don't have the TMO (technical match official) that they have in rugby. Technology would cut out a lot of the was it wasn't it a point/goal arguments that seem to crop up.


 
What??? You mean spend money?
That will never happen.


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## MrMan (31 Jul 2008)

YOBR said:


> I take it your a Clare supporter so? I dont see why the GAA, for championship matches only, don't have the TMO (technical match official) that they have in rugby. Technology would cut out a lot of the was it wasn't it a point/goal arguments that seem to crop up.



Well I would think that because they are so keen on keeping it an amateur sport, this would be seen as a step towards professionalism. I think rather than introduce new technology they should address the selection process for umpires, maybe use referees like in these positions like in soccer (linesmen).


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## Betsy Og (31 Jul 2008)

In fairness to the GAA I dont think they are reluctant to spend money - some of them are a bit too easy with it in fact. For instance:

* county teams costing over €100k to run p.a.
*every county wanting a 35k stadium even though the best "domestic" games might get 15k and inter-county games might only roll around every few years.

There's a common perception that because the players arent paid that they're must be a fat cat somewhere creaming it off. Now apart from paid employees (no great view that they're overpaid) and probably the odd bit of skimming going on, no-one is getting rich from the GAA, the money goes back into grounds across the country through grants.

That is one of the more defining and positive aspects of the GAA. If it went professional then you have:
*paid players (obviously)
*a transfer market (show me a professional sport without one)
*the strong and weak counties are even more defined by their relative financial wealth (there is probably some correlation to wealth and success already, even if only indirectly due to population trends).

So while I commend the efforts of the players I dont think we should go professional - if its too much commitment for particular individuals then fair enough. As regards modernising/professionalising certain aspects I'd be full in favour of:

* An advantage rule
* Video ref
* scanner type technology to tell if a point is scored (this has been talked about in the last year or 2)
* A big clock counting down to the end of the game (las works well in ladies football)
* any other progressive developments along these lines.


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## Green (31 Jul 2008)

MrMan said:


> Well I would think that because they are so keen on keeping it an amateur sport, this would be seen as a step towards professionalism. I think rather than introduce new technology they should address the selection process for umpires, maybe use referees like in these positions like in soccer (linesmen).


 
The GAA is already a professional sport in some respects. Look at the time and effort being put in by county gaa players...


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## DavyJones (31 Jul 2008)

I wouldn't be a big fan of the GAA, although I like watching some games. I think more should be given to the players considering the time and effort they put in. 

A few weeks back I was doing my usual sunday morning mountain run (its a lot more fun than it sounds). Its a 5 mile ring of up and down track, anyhow when I was half way around i met a county hurler on his own, training. Not only does this guy train for his club and county he trains alone on his only day off, unless he has a match ofcourse. these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.

PS I had to pay €12 to see a inter county game a few weeks ago.


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## Betsy Og (31 Jul 2008)

DavyJones said:


> PS I had to pay €12 to see a inter county game a few weeks ago.


 
Do you not think that was good value? Rugby & soccer tickets are well more expensive that GAA tickets, so I dont think you're getting ripped off at that.


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## DavyJones (31 Jul 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Do you not think that was good value? Rugby & soccer tickets are well more expensive that GAA tickets, so I dont think you're getting ripped off at that.



I don't think I was ripped off at all, but I think the 30 lads I was watching play are. 
I have seen Munster play more than once and ticket prices are not that much more expensive, and normally the faclities at rugby grounds are far better than GAA grounds and ofcourse rugby players, even at club level get financial reward for their hard work.


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## csirl (31 Jul 2008)

GAA needs to sort out its disciplinary issues on a number of fronts. They are detracting from the games and if they continue will lead to people turning away from the sport. 

Improvements need to be on the following fronts:

Rules/Procedures:
Should be clear and concise. Disciplinary hearings should take place in good time and should be open and transparent. None of this technicalities stuff or tactics for delaying suspensions until after an important game.

Referees:
Intercounty GAA games have 7 match officials - 1x Referee, 2x Linesman, 4 x Umpire. This is more than enough to keep tabs on every part of the field. The referees have too much to do and too much area to cover. The way games are officiated should be changed so that the workload is spread more evenly among all 7 officials with all allowed to call fouls. The referee should just act as the "captain" of the officiating team.

Coaches:
In most sports you have a coaches association which enforces coaching ethics. It appears that many GAA coaches do not accept fair punishments dished out to errant players and allow their teams to intimidate referees and opponents. Coaches who do not play within the spirit of the game should be disciplined by a coaching organisation and have their coaching licenses withdrawn.


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## MrMan (31 Jul 2008)

> The GAA is already a professional sport in some respects. Look at the time and effort being put in by county gaa players...



There is great time and effort but that doesn't equate to professionalism. Guys at plenty of diffenrent levels train hard and are maybe not very good, but simply applying time and effort doesn't make one a professional.



> I wouldn't be a big fan of the GAA, although I like watching some games. I think more should be given to the players considering the time and effort they put in.


Its a choice though and always has been. 



> these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.


No they are committed and they train and play hard. A lot of games are specacles simply for the level of spirit on show and never say die etc and the GAA is branded on the whole 'blood on your shirt, die for your county' style rhetoric, i don't think it would be as easy market if Sean Óg and the like were seen to only be in it for the money.


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## DavyJones (31 Jul 2008)

MrMan said:


> No they are committed and they train and play hard. A lot of games are specacles simply for the level of spirit on show and never say die etc and the GAA is branded on the whole 'blood on your shirt, die for your county' style rhetoric, i don't think it would be as easy market if Sean Óg and the like were seen to only be in it for the money.



Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.


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## Betsy Og (31 Jul 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.


 
Probably more so rugby than soccer but I see your point. However, professional would lead to a dilution of the GAA's grassroots appeal for a few reasons:


Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ), and the public meet them in the normal course of work/life then they are a lot easier to believe in, like, support etc. Your average teen might even harbour a crazy notion that they could be out there with them if their luck turned. They play alongside them/against them in club games. Contrast this to the parallel universe that soccer players in England inhabit.
To labour my earlier point, professionalism would inevitably give rise to a transfer market and a direct hit on the GAA's appeal. There is something curious about kids wanting to "die" for (i.e. rabid fans) of a team from a suburb of a UK city where they've never been nor will be (for a good few years anyway). So there's a purity to the GAA following, its a sense of belonging, you dont decide to be a fan, you've no choice, its in you (I realise this isnt across the board, particularly in urban areas but its the reality in much of the country). Not that theres anything wrong with following a UK team, just that its a bit contrived - (bit like how english fans slag Man Utd fans from other parts of England).
The Irish experience of professional team sport isnt particularly good. League of Ireland clubs generally scraping by, rugby has 3 viable provinces and a club scene that, by the accounts of people involved, has suffered greatly due to professionalism.
If it aint broke dont fix it. Theres an assumption that all this training has made the GAA better. Games are a bit quicker but are they more skilful or enjoyable to play or watch? Rather than expecting superhuman training standards and unreasonable demands on players I think there should be further limits on collective training (like the recently introduced closed season). What was wrong with the bellies of Seanie O'Leary or Joe McNally rattling in the goals? Better that than some young fella worn to a thread with training and no social life and his livelihood curtailed in the pursuit of "puke football".


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## DavyJones (31 Jul 2008)

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is the fact that GAA are the biggest sporting body in the state, they must turnover millions (tens of millions if you include the hire of croke park for other sports and concerts) of euro a year. I don't really care if the sport goes semi- pro or pro but atleast give the players good expenses. Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers.


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## MOB (31 Jul 2008)

"Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."

This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA.  There is no owner getting wealthy.   

 'Share some of the wealth' in the context of GAA might just as easily be re-phrased as 'spend the money differently'   

As things stand, the money all gets spent on the sport.   If you propose paying players, then you are talking about either getting in more money or cutting back on some other area which currently gets that money.  Those who support pay for play should be clear about where they see the money coming from.


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## DavyJones (31 Jul 2008)

MOB said:


> "Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."
> 
> This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA.  There is no owner getting wealthy.
> 
> ...




I don't propose to pay players, If the GAA turnover €30 million a year, they can surely give a little (better expenses, mileage etc)to the county players. I would not be so innocent to think people aren't getting rich off the GAA. Where there is that kind of money there is corruption and greed, of that you can be sure.


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## Ash 22 (31 Jul 2008)

Going back to last nights match. It was very hard luck for Clare. Saying that they had a few more minutes play left and had a chance to equalise. The match is on www.tg4.tv under sport cartlann for anybody that missed the action. Go to 1.34 and you'll see the controversial puck out.


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## The_Banker (1 Aug 2008)

MOB said:


> "Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."
> 
> This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA. There is no owner getting wealthy.


 
I beg to differ. There are some very well paid administrators in full time employment getting a very handsome salary. Since the early 70s there is a County Secretary (in Cork) in full time employment running matters who has never been re-elected.


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## The_Banker (1 Aug 2008)

MOB said:


> "Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."
> 
> 'Share some of the wealth' in the context of GAA might just as easily be re-phrased as 'spend the money differently'


 
Why did the GAA introduce the back door? Was it to give counties a second bite of the cherry or was it to bring in more revenue? I suspect the later.
With more games comes more pressure on players. The GAA introduced commercialism with major sponsorship of league and championship, jersey sponsorship etc. Yet when a player had sponsorship on his hurl all hell broke loose.

In Munster there are 4 major stadiums. The Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, Pairc Ui Squeeze in Cork, Semple Stadium in Thurles and Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney. Not to mention the ground in Ennis or Pairc Ui Rinn in Cork. Instead of having so many stadia (which are empty most of the year even at the height of Championship) why not have one major all seated stadium for Munster and then "spend the money differently" by really compensating the players who have so many extra games due to back doors introduced by the GAA to boost revenue.


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## csirl (1 Aug 2008)

> these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.


 
I disagree with this point. Intercounty GAA players are committed amateurs on a par with the committed amateurs who play at the top level in most sports in Ireland.

Professional sport is a totally different ball game (excuse the pun) to amateur sport. Participants behave in a very different way when their livelihood depends on their performance. Skill levels are always higher - a committed amateur with a day job can never dedicate as much time to training as a full time professional. There is also an element of professional pride in professional sport. A professional athlete has to give it 100% everytime they perform. Its not good enough to put in a good effort and lose - as is acceptable at amateur level.

If GAA were to turn full time professional, there is no doubt that the skill level would rise dramatically. I disagree with those posters who say that rugby is suffering because of professionalism. Its clear to see that the top level of rugby in Ireland has improved immensely in recent years - is much better to watch. Rugby also seems to be growing and spreading into areas that never played the sport (I've no connections with rugby and never played the sport so these are not the opinions of a biased insider).

I disagree that the GAA is run as a professional organisation - even though the administrators at the top level in the GAA are full time and well paid, they still have a very amateur approach (in terms of sports administration). The GAA could do with a total overhaul of its management and a bit more professionalism at this level. They will suffer in the future if they dont - recent reports suggest that the future for GAA is not as rosey as for other sports and that the Government is getting poor value for money from the grants going into GAA.

In spite of the top level of soccer in Ireland being professional, the FAI also suffer from an amateur approach among their administrators. This could be because most of them come from the amateur soccer ranks rather than being experienced professional sports administrators.

One final point to remember is that professional soccer players are not the best examples of professional athletes. I think it is because they sign for professional clubs as 14/15 year olds which is too young to have any appreciation for how you get to professional level. In the vast majority of professioanl sports, the athletes do not turn professional until they are adults and often have to work their way up through the amateur levels to get to professional level.


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## MrMan (1 Aug 2008)

> Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.



your point was that they train even beyond what is required by professionals, but I think simply being super fit shouldn't mean that they should be payed, tbh i would prefer a little less concentration on fitness and more on skill. I would agree with putting a cap on the amount of training that can be put in. My point is even junior soccer teams have been known to ban drink for the season and train 3 nights a week, I've been with basketball teams that required two nights training with the team and you were expected to follow up with 1-2 nights weights and practice on your own and matches were all generally a 3 hour round trip at weekends.


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## Mpsox (1 Aug 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ),


 Re Donal Og, I come from down near his neck of the woods, albeit not from his village of Cloyne but from one of his neighbouring clubs.
In addition to playing for both club and county, he is also involved as a selector with club sides and I've seen him on the sideline at many an underage match. I know for a fact(as he did it for my local club) that he turned up to present medals and would not take a payment for it, unlike many other intercounty players. He recently gave up some of his weekend to travel up to Fermanagh or Louth(can't remember which one it was) to do coaching sessions with their county teams

I don't agree with everything the GPA has done, and as a Corkman I would not agree with everything the county team has done over the last few years either. However Donal Og, from what I've seen of him, strikes me as a decent guy and a perfectionist.


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## The_Banker (1 Aug 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ),


 
Just to balance your slur against Donal Og there was a very good article in The Sunday Times on July 15th regarding Donal Og. Read it and see how little of a prima donna he is...

SOURCE: THE SUNDAY TIMES

_TOM HUMPHRIES LOCKER ROOM: _
_The Cork goalkeeper is a hate figure for some traditionalists, which is strange when you look at his unselfish service to the game and its grassroots, writes Tom Humphries . _
_FROM THE scenes created by the quietly relieved press of Cork people who moseyed onto the field at Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Saturday night when the final whistle shrilled one little tableau stood out. The kids hit Donal Óg Cusack's goal first when they made it on to the field. He was gathering up his supply of hurleys and when he stood to go to the dressingrooms Donal Óg's way was impeded by a sea of young, beseeching fans._
_They clamoured for his hurleys, his signature and his jersey, and almost unconsciously he whipped off his famous hooped red-and-white geansaí and offered it to the first kid who had asked for it._
_The young fella streaked off in a happy sprint of pure triumph and joy. He was followed by a brand-new retinue of admirers suddenly pleased to be associated with the fella who got Donal Óg's jersey. Meanwhile, Donal Óg stood and signed anything with a surface that would take a signature._
_County boards are parsimonious in the matter of jerseys (the parsimony of Cork's county board has occasionally been highlighted by Donal Óg among others) but rather than chastise a player who hands a jersey over to a young kid it would be preferable almost if stars like Donal Óg were given a supply of them to give out. The 60 or 70 euro it might cost to replace Donal Óg's shirt from Saturday would buy just a tiny fragment of the joy and goodwill for the games the gesture provided._
_What was interesting was that when you look at the ranks of modern players, Donal Óg Cusack is one of the most pilloried and derided despite the grudging nods to his excellence._
_For instance, from our seat in the stands on Saturday one critic of Donal Óg's had been piercingly shrill in his denunciations of the Cork goalie as a "muppet" and a "clown"._
_Of all the names Donal Óg must have been called, muppet probably wouldn't make the top 100 most wounding, but it was the venom and persistence of the critiques which stood out. The name-calling came from just one corner of a broad coalition of people there to support Cork but also to get on Cusack's case._
_The howls of derision abated just once when Ross O'Carroll rasped a snapshot across the Cork goal and Donal Óg, with just the right hand on the hurl, stretched full-length to stop as firmly and as confidently as a policemen raising his hand to halt the flow of traffic. As sweet a save as we are likely to see all season. Only a galoot of the most twisted kind would have denied the save the applause it merited._
_Then it was back to the derision. Hard to believe this was for a goalkeeper on his way to yet another clean sheet. Again, there is little here that would surprise Donal Óg. Whether you agree with his profile in matters from the GPA to the strikes which have paralysed Cork GAA in recent years he is exceptional in his ability to go against the instincts of the modern GAA player and put his head above the parapet and take the brickbats and abuse for standing up for something he believes in._
_That is no small thing and though it has made Donal Óg the most demonised player among followers in the modern game it should, in fact, make him the most respected._
_We are in an era (partly created by Donal Óg himself) when players are more visible than ever and yet less well known. I pass Alan Brogan's face on billboards 100 times a day, but have no real impression of what sort of fella he is beyond the impression he gives with his play. (Speaking of county boards and jerseys, Alan's father, Bernard, finished his Dublin career by being taken to hospital having been creeled in a game against Kildare. He gave his jersey to a nurse who looked after him. He never heard from the county board about his status vis-à-vis Dublin teams, but the missing jersey was an issue for a long time.)_
_The same phenomenon of visible anonymity is true to a greater or lesser extent of many modern players who have discovered commercial endorsements are a satisfactory outlet for limited self-expression and a reasonable way of conveying a sense of yourself to the public. And the structure of the modern championship competitions helps of course - the back door means never having to say goodbye after one game. Players (there are many of course entitled to wear the traditional béal bocht) have moved into an era where the disconnect between themselves and the places they come from isn't yet dangerous, but has become a source of concern._
_The money available for selling your face to sell products gets bigger all the time, but the bits and pieces like scholarships, sponsored cars, free gear, wads of cash to be a talking head at sponsors' press conferences, and the Government stipend mean we move ever closer to the era when players will make a living entirely from having a high GAA profile._
_Let's hope when that happens even though we will stone Donal Óg for helping to bring it about the players in question remember the values Cusack brings to his life off the park._
_Those who saw him in Parnell Park last summer when Cork beat Dublin a little more convincingly than on Saturday will recall he was one of a clutch of Cork players who stayed on the field for more than an hour signing his name for youngsters. His jersey had long since been given away that day too._
_He is, like many of the Cork players demonised during the strike days, exemplary in his commitment to working with young teams. If all clubs saw as much of their county players as Cloyne sees of Donal Óg there would be less talk of this disconnect._
_What is odd about this is that players and ex-players like Donal Óg and Dessie Farrell stand indicted as bogeymen in the business of bringing about this gulf between players and ordinary members and yet the GAA has done more than enough tampering with its complexion to have made those changes inevitable anyway._
_The arrival of sponsors names on county jerseys, the proliferation of sponsorships and TV coverage and, finally, the invention of the back-door system have been as responsible as anything the GPA or striking Cork players have done to bring about this commercial buoyancy for amateur players._
_In the days of the old-style championship one bad day meant a calamitous exit for an entire year. Modern teams can disappear out the back door for a refresher in the qualifiers and then - ta-dah! - step right back on to the big stage a few weeks later arguing the qualifiers suited just fine, allowing them get matches under their belts while their conquerors twiddled thumbs._
_Until they are beaten, all teams deem the winning of provincial championships to be the shortest route to Croke Park and the one they are determined to take._
_Donal Óg is a strange hate figure for traditionalists. There are those of us who might not agree with every stance he takes, but if the modern era had more players as generous with their time and their instincts and as assiduous with their preparations we would all be less scared about the future._
_A kid got a free jersey on Saturday in Páirc Uí Chaoimh and a couple of hundred got autographs. A small, good thing. Our friend in the stands and a coalition of sympathisers went off muttering about Cusack as if he were to blame for Cork's lack of lustre._

_We live in an era for Gaelic Games where players have a sense of entitlement more finely honed than in any previous generation. Entitlement comes after duty, however. You can't take out more than you have put in._
_We watched Donal Óg on Saturday and listened to the abuse he took and wondered if any of his detractors put so much into the game they feel entitled to belittle a model athlete. Or was it that Cusack's impeccable bearing and unimpeachable commitment make him a frustrating hate figure, a Spartacus in stockades? The kid with the jersey must wonder what all the fuss is about._
_© 2008 The Irish Times_


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## Betsy Og (1 Aug 2008)

The_Banker said:


> Just to balance your slur against Donal Og
> 
> 
> Slur is taking it a bit far, I would have said gentle ribbing.  He'd be grand if he didnt take himself so seriously, very dour and self-important in TV interviews I've seen him in. I'm not a big fan of the GPA agenda either. And if he could stick to the regulation sliothars he'd take a lot of focus off himself. He wouldnt be the first "hate figure" goalie ever, Fitzy had many admirers, plenty from Waterford I'd imagine, but it shows that these dislikes dont run that deep.


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## DavyJones (1 Aug 2008)

csirl said:


> I disagree with this point. Intercounty GAA players are committed amateurs on a par with the committed amateurs who play at the top level in most sports in Ireland.



I was talking about county hurlers/ footballers as they play at the top level of their sport.


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