# parking in housing estate



## mary37

Can someone please tell me where does the line of obstruction lie in someone parking out side your drive way How far to each side outside your house is 'your 'space?

Imagine a scenario where you have a lawn /driveway /lawn. if someone parks opposite the lawn, not blocking the driveway but making it difficult to turn and get out if someone parks at the other lawn side is that an offence. Or can they park opposite the lawn so long as they do not block the actual drive way?

thanks in advance for any advice


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## mary37

What if there are cars at both sides not in front of exit but so close you cannot turn?


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## Fullback

Most parking rules are set down in the 1997 parking regulations (google S.I. 182/97). 
Article 36 (2) (g) prohibits parking “in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises”.
You need to judge if your circumstances fall inside this definition. Hope this helps.


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## SmithTown

Fullback said:


> that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, .


what about partially ob striuct as in parking on footpaths. The law is that you can't park partly or wholly on  a path isn't it? Would that apply in OP case or would they have to show that being partly in front of house, if i understand it correctly,is blocking them access?


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## Fullback

SmithTown,
There are two strands to this.
As you say, the regulations state that it’s illegal to park on a public footway so if that is the problem the OP may have cause for a complaint to the Gardaí on that basis alone. I think the greater problem is convincing the Gardaí to get involved in such disputes. It’s way down their list of priorities.  Often, it’s better to deal with it through the local residents’ association.  

As for partial obstruction, the regulations just aren’t that specific. It’s a matter of interpretation whether or not access is obstructed.


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## micheller

Ring the local council and ask if they can add you to the list for the next time they are doing road markings and they will paint a yellow box outside your drive to help show people that parking would obstruct you.
However, they will only mark the length of the drive entrance and people will squeeze in close anyway if they need to park.


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## villa 1

In most cases there is just not enough parking spaces in housing estates. Builder/developers concentrated squeezing as much property into the land as possible without taking into account the need for proper parking. Where I live 2bed appartments have 4 occupants with 4cars. This is leading to cars being parked on footpaths, which in itself is a safety concern. These idiots park completely covering fire hydrants and have no problem parking on bends!!


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## ajapale

1234 said:


> ... The space outside your property is either Public (maintained and/or owned by your Local Authority) or Private (the land is owned by a third party ie. a Developer in a Housing Estate)....



Mary,

Is yours a public or a private estate?

aj


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## theresa1

I walk to work every day and sometimes end up walking on the public road because the footpath is blocked because of parked vehicles. The Gardai couldnt care less - only in Ireland!


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## PaddyBloggit

1234 said:


> Why don't you make a complaint and bring it to their attention?




Maybe she did ...


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## Wishes

I've had this problem and contacted the Gardai.  To be honest I got nowhere, they told me that if the path is not lipped, then there is very little that can be done about it.  I now park my car away from my home because its impossible to gain access to my property in a vehicle.  I really feel for the OP, its most annoying.


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## mary37

ajapale said:


> Mary,
> 
> Is yours a public or a private estate?
> 
> aj


it is a council estate but is not taken over by council yet and is ownd by developer as far as i know. Where they park is also blocking a fire hydrant, can the fire department put a sign or bollard there?


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## villa 1

There is normally  'H' mark on the hydrant cover and a small concrete post with a yellow 'H' on it also. If there is a fire or if the hydrant needs to be flushed the fire brigade will pull the idiots car away from the area!!


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## Irish Mist

I live in a small block of Houses/Apartments with parking on private property on 3 sides of the block. Most of the time there is plenty space for residents and visitors but about 4 months of the year a local club trains near the block and uses our spaces. They are there from 7 to midnight up to 5 nights a week. If I get home late I can't park outside my house, if I get home early I have to park carefully or I'll be blocked in. The head of the residence association is afraid to confront them in case they damge our cars in retaliation as they have already removed the no parking signs. It would be an idealic place to live if it weren't for this club and with negative equity unfortunately moving isn't an option


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## Complainer

The management company need to get a permit system going, and then engage a clamping company. It will cost a few quid, but will solve the problem fairly quickly.

Or you could try engaging with club officials - surely they would do something about this kind of anti-social behaviour.


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## PetrolHead

Before we start talking about Gardai, council and management company involvement, how about we try a centuries old technique to address the problem....

Communication....

Why not leave a note under the windscreen wiper of the cars in question, written in a friendly and breezy tone, just to explain that you don't have a problem with them parking there but would it be possible, maybe for them to leave a little more room either side of the drive way, as it makes it very difficult to swing in and out and you would hate to catch their car with yours because then you'd have to pay for repairs to both and it would be such a hassle......etc etc etc etc.....


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## nuac

Agree with Petrolhead, except would not accept liability for damage caused trying to access your house.     They may be held at least partly liable for parking so as to make it difficult to get in or out of your driveway.


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## njpryan

Hello all, I have a similar question/query.... In our estate (which is a cul-de-sac) and on Sunday last there were cars parked alongside the kirb of the green opposite their house and also parked on the footpath at their house.  These cars were belonged to guests visiting as their driveway which can take 2 cars was full.  This left a very very narrow space for cars to pass through.  There were empty car spaces available just a small bit up the road (and when I say small bit - you're talking about 15-20 yards or less!)  My question is this - what are the legalities regarding this and would a Residents Assoc have any power to stop this and if so how would they go about it. Bear in mind that the estate is in limbo at present as the bond has not been handed over as the developers are in administration and the council won't tough anything for fear of admitting responsibility until the result of the court case etc.
I would appreciate any help legally in confronting this situation on a neighbourly fashion e.g. a letter to all households in the estate suggesting that their guests use the parking spaces provided - but need to know how far we can go about having no parking along kirbside of green etc.
We have a meeting tomorrow evening and would love to have some information on how to handle this nicely while enforcing the problem to stop.
Many thanks.


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## shesells

Basically you can't enforce anything. The residents association can put out a circular and ask that people park considerately and advise their guests to do likewise but it's purely appealing to people's better nature. Road traffic law doesn't apply if it's not a public road.


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## Jane Doe

shesells said:


> Basically you can't enforce anything. The residents association can put out a circular and ask that people park considerately and advise their guests to do likewise but it's purely appealing to people's better nature. *Road traffic law doesn't apply if it's not a public road*.


that is not correct


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## onq

I think that Jane and shesells may both be right.

The law in this case should apply because it is a public road - why wouldn't a cul-de-sac be a public road?

However in this case unless the law is being broken there seems to be nothing anyone can do.

ONQ

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## Jane Doe

For road traffic act a housing estate is a public road asthe public, or some of them i.e residents and say anyone doing adelivery have access to it

i know of a case where ticket was issued by garda on a car with no insurance parked in a cul de sac in an estate


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## shesells

onq said:


> I think that Jane and shesells may both be right.
> 
> The law in this case should apply because it is a public road - why wouldn't a cul-de-sac be a public road?





mary37 said:


> it is a council estate but is not taken over by council yet and is ownd by developer as far as i know. Where they park is also blocking a fire hydrant, can the fire department put a sign or bollard there?



It's not a public road until the council take it in charge. In my estate roads are the responsibility of our management company as we have not been taken in charge.


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## Jane Doe

shesells said:


> It's not a public road until the council take it in charge. In my estate roads are the responsibility of our management company as we have not been taken in charge.


incorrect the place i am talk ing has not been taken in charge by council either. the road traffic act applies anywhere the public, or a % of them, have access


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## onq

shesells said:


> It's not a public road until the council take it in charge. In my estate roads are the responsibility of our management company as we have not been taken in charge.



I think you may be confusing the role of the Council with the operational remit of the Gardaí.
"Taking in charge" is a process that follows on from the successful completion of a development and means _inter alia_ that the Council now maintains the roads.

This occurs around the same time as the paying back of developers bonds, providing that the development has been carried out to the satisfaction of the local authority.
This process can take up to seven years or more from the grant of permission, depending on the completion of the scheme and the financial health or otherwise of the Council.

During this time the roads on the estate come under the jurisdiction of the Gardaí as far as I know, or else we've have lawless estates all over the country waiting to be taken in charge.
To the best of my knowledge, this is not the case.

Again, and notwithstanding the above, unless the people who are parking the cars there can be shown to have acted unlawfully, there is little that can be done legally or by the Gardaí.
I find that a personal approach works best in such cases, particularly if it occurs before someone tries to involve the Gardaí - note what is said by all parties at the time for later reference.

ONQ.


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## Guns N Roses

Jane Doe said:


> For road traffic act a housing estate is a public road asthe public, or some of them i.e residents and say anyone doing adelivery have access to it


 

This is wrong. The Road Traffic Act 1961 defines a *public road* as a

" road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;"

It has nothing got to do with access.


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## Guns N Roses

Jane Doe said:


> For road traffic act a housing estate is a public road asthe public, or some of them i.e residents and say anyone doing adelivery have access to it


 
However it defines a *public place* as "any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;"

As onq said, people are confusing Public Roads with Public Place.


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## Jane Doe

you seem to be contradicting yourself. public road or place the garda can enforce rta in an estate


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## Guns N Roses

Jane Doe said:


> you seem to be contradicting yourself. public road or place the garda can enforce rta in an estate


 
I'm not contradicting myself.

I'm just trying to make it clear that the Act makes a clear distinction between "Public Road" & "Public Place" and it would appear to that different parts of the Act apply to one or the other.


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## onq

Hey Guns N Roses,

Thanks for that comment - I hadn't known where to find it!

ONQ.


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## Jane Doe

Guns N Roses said:


> I'm not contradicting myself.
> 
> I'm just trying to make it clear that the Act makes a clear distinction between "Public Road" & "Public Place" and it would appear to that different parts of the Act apply to one or the other.


either way a council estate that is not taken in charge by council is subject to the road traffic act


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