# Planning Application: Questions relating to site notice, making objections and trees.



## 10amwalker (4 Oct 2009)

Three questions please that I need some help on. 

1. A site notice has been erected at the location of a proposed development however this is on a private road. 
Is it mandatory that the site notice be erected at the site but also on a public road? You can not see or read the planning application notice from the public road.

2. The complete development was granted a 10 year planning permission and permission was granted after a public hearing by An Bord Pleanala. The 10 years are not up yet. Following the recent " bales " posting I do not want to give information that could finger the location.
Can I object to the development as it is not part of the original permission granted by An Bord Pleanala?

3. Trees on the developments site have tree preservation orders but the development if granted will mean the felling of these trees. Earlier this year some other mature trees on the site were felled to and now as I read the planning application the landscape will change dramatically all in favour of having commercial entities. The street scape will be devoid of trees.

What advice would you give me, the planning application was printed in the "Daily Mail" and the site notice only went up 2 weeks after the plans were lodged with the Council which means I am up against the clock....


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## Maverick.ie (4 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application Site Location*

This site might give you a few answers, note that the site notice should have gone up on the same day that the planning permission was looked for

[broken link removed]


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## ajapale (4 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application Site Location*

Planning issues on AAM have traditionally been discussed here: Homes and Gardens and on occasion here Mortgages and Buying and Selling Homes

Moved from askaboutlaw to Homes and Gardens which is for legal discussions not dealt with elsewhere on the forum.


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## 10amwalker (4 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application Site Location*

Maverick, thanks for the link will go now and see if the site notice is dated. Can I assume that I can use that date to work out how long I have to make an observation on the application. There was a 10 day delay in the site notice being erected and the planning application being lodged with the Council.
Sorry if this question has a very obvious answer.


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## Maverick.ie (4 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application: Questions relating to site notice, making objections and tr*

The dates are set in motion from the date the application is received by the planning office, but you could object to the planning on the basis that the site notice itself is not in compliance with the requirement of the act and that the relevant council are obliged under the act to return the application for refiling


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## onq (5 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application: Questions relating to site notice, making objections and tr*



10amwalker said:


> Three questions please that I need some help on.
> 
> 1. A site notice has been erected at the location of a proposed development however this is on a private road.
> Is it mandatory that the site notice be erected at the site but also on a public road? You can not see or read the planning application notice from the public road.



Hi 10amwalker, I presume this is the thread you asked me to look at.

Okay, firstly, don't panic. Its only at planning stage - see below.

Yes, normally the site notice must be visible and legible from an area to which the public have access. Thats why they are termed Public Notices. On a large site the planner sometimes requests two. Where there is no public access, the planner will agree what should be done and he/she should be your first port of call when investigating. You could also check where the original permission site notice was erected. If you can show the current position was not used before and is not compliant you will have a stronger case. However you should check there are no "referrer" notices elsewhere, in a position the public can access, which point the way to the notice you refer to. If may be the planner has requested this "relay" notice arrangement where the site has no public frontage.

If you're thinking of lodging an Observation and raising this issue then go ahead - raise this concern - as long as you do not malign the applicant and you make your case in a fair and reasonable manner, there should be no blowback. A professional could assist here greatly.



> 2. The complete development was granted a 10 year planning permission and permission was granted after a public hearing by An Bord Pleanala. The 10 years are not up yet. Following the recent " bales " posting I do not want to give information that could finger the location.
> Can I object to the development as it is not part of the original permission granted by An Bord Pleanala?


This is a slightly confusing post, because you're referring to a "complete" development" and then to what appears to be a separate development currently applied for but not yet granted.

[BTW I'm not familiar with a "bales" posting, unless you mean the one about "bales of hay withing a certain distance of a dwelling".]

You're also not giving us a lot of information to go on, but yes, you can lodge an Observation on any valid development once you lodge within the five week period with full information and pay the fee.
However, a review of the original permission could be useful - there could be conditions in the original permission which allowed for "approval" of information by the local authority - this could significantly change the permission within certain limits. Again, the local authority planning office is your first port of call and don't worry about unintended errors, the planners are used to them and will distil lany relevant planning issues from the submission [or should do so].




> 3. Trees on the developments site have tree preservation orders but the development if granted will mean the felling of these trees. Earlier this year some other mature trees on the site were felled to and now as I read the planning application the landscape will change dramatically all in favour of having commercial entities. The street scape will be devoid of trees.


I'll make a leap of faith and assume that the original 10-year permission did not threaten the existence of these trees, but the current application does? Because if the original 10-year permission did affect the trees in a similar fashion, then you may have no case to make.



> What advice would you give me, the planning application was printed in the "Daily Mail" and the site notice only went up 2 weeks after the plans were lodged with the Council which means I am up against the clock....


If you're correct on the dates and the application was lodged before the site notice went up I think the application may be invalid.
The planner may have spoted this, but if you can prove it to them you should do so as they may be unaware of it.
Sometimes the planners don't investigate site notice for several weeks and so may not catch this.

On a more general note; -

If you're under pressure, don't waste too much time asking questions here - throw the kitchen sink at them, but don't be mailicious.
My best advice is that you should retain a professional to make your case.
Otherwise you yourself could take on board the onerous task of; -
(i) reading through the current revelopment plan yourself. 
(ii) isolate the sections dealing with tree preservation
(iii) research my old posts here and/or on Boards.ie about making Observations and Appeals [others have contributed good stuff too]
(iv) talk to the planning officer and put your case ot him and ask for advice.
(v) look up recent permissions where trees were affected.
(vi) research the comments and conditions on the original application by the Council and the ABP Decision of the Appeal.​You may find some useful ammunition in that lot, but remember, the Observation should be full of relevant Planning Matters, and should not be a rant or a whinge [not that I'm suggesting you would do that ]

Useful issues to raise include


 Proximity
 Noise
 Overlooking
 Devaluation of Properties
 Intensification of Traffic Use.
 Increased Traffic Movements leading to Hazard
 Junction Geometry issues
 Road width issues
 Traffic Management Plan
 Effects on Local Drainage and Waterocurses
 
Oh, the list is endless 

Some points to watch if retaining a professional.

An architect or planning consultant can make the general comments, but if you're going to make a submission about roads, traffic or drainage retaining a good enginner with experience in these matters as well is useful. I regularly use a Traffic Consultant to comment on traffic and parking.

A submission or Observation at planning stage costs €20 but thismay only be the start of the matter. It may be that you cannot marshall your research and arguments in time to make as complete and competent an Observation lodgement as you would like. The receipt from making the Observation will allow you to make an Appeal.

A Third Party Appeal appears to be covered under D herein:

[broken link removed]

If the €220 cost of a Third Party Appeal is too dear for you, consider joining forces with others. Do not form an ad-hoc committee or group and sign the Appeal in its name. Natural person signatories are best for legal reasons.

Do see if you can gather support in numbers around the area either for the Observation or the latter Appeal. Apart from cost-sharing, a list of names appended to an Appeal of people all worried about devaluation of their homes - for valid and sound planning reasons - carries more weight than one lone voice.

Hope this helps. I have a busy week lined up and probably won't be checking back too often. Post any queries here and as before PM me. 

ONQ.


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## sydthebeat (5 Oct 2009)

*Re: Planning Application: Questions relating to site notice, making objections and tr*



10amwalker said:


> Three questions please that I need some help on.
> 
> 1. A site notice has been erected at the location of a proposed development however this is on a private road.
> Is it mandatory that the site notice be erected at the site but also on a public road? You can not see or read the planning application notice from the public road.
> ...



1. the validity of a planning application is the sole remit of the planning office. It is NOT a factor in a [planning objection so i would focus your energies elsewhere. If the council view the application as being valid, then it is valid.

2. this is a separate planning application so it will be viewed on its own merits. If your objection is made within the valid time frame (5 weeks after application being made) then it will be included in the application.

3. have you seen the application?? if so, this very much sounds like a valid reason for objection. I would be surprised anyway, if the council allowed the felling of trees with preservation orders.

rind you local authority and find out what the last date for submissions is


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