# Why did Sepa cause the government to miss its January targets?



## Sunny (5 Feb 2014)

I understand what SEPA is and does but I am curious about something. What is about SEPA that caused the Government to completely miss their tax take expectations in January? I know it's just technical but curious what it is about SEPA that caused it. I am having problems with certain domestic payments such wages being delayed too. I have been advised that there could be delays and that direct debits might take longer to process. Are these issues unique to Ireland?


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## callybags (5 Feb 2014)

I fail to see how SEPA could have had any effect on the revenue's income for January, as it doesn't come into force until 01st February 2014. Also, some Irish banks are pushing out the implementation date further.

We have a Direct Debit going to Revenue every month and the January one went through without any changes, at least from our side.

Having said that, I think it is the greatest waste of time ever. Up till now I have been doing online payments to Ireland, the UK, Europe and worldwide with minimal fuss or problems.

We already have unique bank identifier codes (Sort Code) and unique account identifiers (Account Number).

Methinks someone in the ECB is looking for a bonus, or just trying to justify their existence.


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## Dearg Doom (5 Feb 2014)

I don't know if it was just mine, but my usual VAT and P30 ROS debits were significantly later than normal, almost at the very end of the month.


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## losttheplot (5 Feb 2014)

I submitted a CGT payment for the end of Jan, money hasn't been taken yet, although they  given me a receipt.


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## Gervan (5 Feb 2014)

Ditto, losttheplot, glad it isn't just me. I've been watching for the money coming out, but have seen nothing yet.


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## losttheplot (5 Feb 2014)

Thought I'd messed up entering the IBAN etc, just thought it strange to get a receipt before the money was taken. Glad it's not just me that brought the exchequer figures down.


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## Joe_90 (5 Feb 2014)

It appears that lots of taxpayers who set up Single Debit Authorities for VAT on 23 Jan were not processed before the end of Jan because of a delay in calling on the SDA by Revenue.


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## Janet (6 Feb 2014)

Sunny said:


> Are these issues unique to Ireland?



Nope, it's happening in Germany too. My direct debit for payment of my travel ticket normally leaves my account on the first working day of the month. It still hasn't left this month and the train company have added a message to the menu choices on their phone to let people know that there are delays in direct debits due to SEPA. Don't understand it either but there you have it.


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## thunder99 (6 Feb 2014)

I was wondering about this. I registered for VAT in December and filled in the return for the first payment to be taken on Jan 23. I logged into my bank last week and there was no payment taken but I had received a receipt. I thought maybe I done something wrong so put the payment through again via ROS, both payments were taken a couple of days ago.


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## Sunny (6 Feb 2014)

Surprised there hasn't been more media attention about this. I have heard of peoples wages being delayed, direct debits not going through, domestic payments taking longer etc. I would have thought Revenue not getting the money in would have journalists asking questions but I haven't seen one artice.


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## nai (6 Feb 2014)

A simple domestic transfer between 2 Bank of Ireland accounts is taking up to 8 hours to process now - as opposed to immediate as was the case previously.

We verified this with the bank and they have informed us that the SEPA clearing system has introduced significant delays within the bank - in simplistic terms the transfer is sent to SEPA clearing processor before coming back to the destination account.


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## runner (6 Feb 2014)

I was told by BOI last week that it would take 5 working days to transfer cash to KBC through SEPA. It actually took 4 days.


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## murphaph (6 Feb 2014)

nai said:


> A simple domestic transfer between 2 Bank of Ireland accounts is taking up to 8 hours to process now - as opposed to immediate as was the case previously.
> 
> We verified this with the bank and they have informed us that the SEPA clearing system has introduced significant delays within the bank - in simplistic terms the transfer is sent to SEPA clearing processor before coming back to the destination account.


This is BoI acting the maggot IMO. My German bank is fully SEPA and I can move money from one account to another instantly. Internal transfers don't and probably shouldn't go through the SEPA system. Why on earth should they need to?


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## gipimann (6 Feb 2014)

I understand that the first time a SEPA direct debit is processed, it can take up to 6 working days. After that it should take no more than 3 days. This is probably what caused the drop in Jan payments to Revenue.


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## jpd (7 Feb 2014)

The banks can switch millions, if not more, around the globe in milliseconds when it is about buying/selling shares but it takes them days to move tuppence from one account to another

Why do we even bother!


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## Killianb (8 Feb 2014)

callybags said:


> I fail to see how SEPA could have had any effect on the revenue's income for January, as it doesn't come into force until 01st February 2014.



Some Irish companies and banks have been making payments / collecting direct debits through SEPA for a number of months. February 2014 was the end date not the start date.

I would imagine that the majority of delayed salary payments, direct debits etc. are as a result of companies not fully understanding the timeline changes that they need to make for SEPA.

The first time a company submits a SEPA direct debit collection it has to be submitted to the bank 6 days in advance of the payment date. Following the first collection this timeframe drops to 3 days. In the old system it was only 1 day.

@ nai - That's surprising about Bank of Ireland. I can make single shot payments with AIB to any other Irish bank and have it transfer on the same day.


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## HMC (9 Feb 2014)

My February mortgage payment wasn't collected last Friday although sufficient funds in my account. My separate overpayment to my mortgage a/c went through though. Could this be SEPA related? I won't be able to speak to my branch until tomorrow morning.


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Feb 2014)

HMC said:


> My February mortgage payment wasn't collected last Friday although sufficient funds in my account. My separate overpayment to my mortgage a/c went through though. Could this be SEPA related? I won't be able to speak to my branch until tomorrow morning.



'Tis all here *HMC*:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=185245


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## HMC (9 Feb 2014)

cheers Paddy. 

Harry


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