# Defaulting on mortgage options



## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

Hi,

Im giving serious consideration to defaulting on a property i own in Dublin.

What are my options and how should i go about it with the banks ?

Im defaulting as i reckon the place is maybe worth half of what i paid for it. 

I understand others who might say well you signed up to it etc etc however this is not a consideration as they valued it and it was valued incorrectly. Im 29 years of age and dont want to be holding negative equity so i may aswell look at the default option. My emotions are not a consideration my financial well being longterm is.


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## nediaaa (6 Jul 2009)

do not under any circumstances default because the repercussions of defaulting will live with u long after the negative equity.Eg, You would never be able to get a credit card and therefore never be able to book a flight on one of ryanairs lovely jets.


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## mf1 (6 Jul 2009)

"however this is not a consideration as they valued it and it was valued incorrectly."

Did they force you to buy it? No, you bought it and they lent you money on it. 

"my financial well being longterm is. "

If you default, your financial well being long term is effectively shot!


mf


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## BJRsols (6 Jul 2009)

by defaulting, the interest still continues to mount until it is paid off in full. 

It's only negative equity of you intend to sell!!

Better to rent a room or move out completely and rent it out than give up. But, to each their own

Never mind about credit cards, but you will not get credit.. mortgages and all.


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## Romulan (6 Jul 2009)

Everytime I read a post like this, I think its a wind-up.

No one forced you to buy it.

The banks will not let you walk merrily away.


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## Guest116 (6 Jul 2009)

What is your remaining mortgage?
What type of mortgage do you have and at what interest rate?

Can you rent some rooms?

What are you planning to do even if you do "default" (this is not an easy route and it is invitable that a judgement will be made against you and you will still owe money at the end of it, you won't be able to just walk away from the debt).


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## TheBigD (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> however this is not a consideration as they valued it and it was valued incorrectly.


If you thought it was valued incorrectly then why did you not object there and then? And if you thought it was overvalued then why did you agree to the purchase price? 

I think you're just cutting ur nose off to spite your face if you default.


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## so-crates (6 Jul 2009)

This isn't the US. "Jingle mail" isn't an option. The repayment of the mortgage is tied to you not to the house so if you do default and the house is ultimately sold, you are still liable for the difference between the sale price and the mortgage (and the bank will not have the same incentive to hold out for the best price so the difference (the negative equity if you will) will likely be larger than if you sold yourself.). 

Defaulting is the surest way of realising that potential negative equity ... wise up.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

Right bought for 555K was valued at 700K at some stage and now id suggest its valued at 400K.

Im looking for advise as to what happens to someone who has done it not ramblings about my morality.

The way i look at it its probably valued at 200-400K. 
Mortgage remaining is probably around 450 - 470. 

To take me to court costs bank a lot of money with a lot of hassle. I can afford to pay the mortgage but sure if everyone else is doing it why dont I. 

Im looking to state to the bank look im going to default unless you take it back and to add it to your bad debt loans. Under these circumstances i may decide to throw them an extra 30k ontop and allow them to take a 150K drop in value of the mortgage. However if they decide they dont want it well then they can goto court. Its possible for me to relocate abroad at the moment so credit is not a big concern. 

Constructive advise please.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

Defaulting and pulling banks through courts takes a minimum of 3 years. 

Wise up im looking for financial advise not moral advise. 

Back in 1930's im omaha the government wrote off mortgages for farmers.


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## mf1 (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Defaulting and pulling banks through courts takes a minimum of 3 years.
> 
> Wise up im looking for financial advise not moral advise.
> 
> Back in 1930's im omaha the government wrote off mortgages for farmers.



Oh, such confidence! 

I think you should just tell your bank that  the property is their's, outlining all of the most cogent reasons you have already identified yourself. I'm absolutely certain that once you explain to them the error of their ways that they will agree with you.  

mf


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## so-crates (6 Jul 2009)

Hmm - dunno what you define as "morality" but I think everyone has queried your sense not your morals.

Right since you want it explained in baby terms - the value of property is not absolute. At the time when it was valued for your mortgage similar properties were selling for €X. Now they aren't. Mortgages are loans taken out secured on your property. The fact that the property is now worth less than the mortgage is actually a risk to the bank not to you *unless you decide to sell the property. *Basically you gambled on the value of the property exceeding the value of the mortgage. You've lost the gamble if you decide to realise the risk now by liquidating the asset. 

You want the bank to give you a get out of jail card to the tune of €150k (you aren't being generous if you decide to "through them an extra €30k ontop" - you are being ridiculous). Given their current propensity for chasing debts through the courts, I think they will simply laugh in your face. Now if you were to say that you can't afford the mortgage it would be different matter but that isn't what you are saying. What you are saying is that you can afford the mortgage you just don't want to because the property the mortgage is secured on is worth less.


Simple truth is you can't walk away - you don't have a leg to stand on. By all means bring your proposal to the bank. It would be interesting to see how they would respond.


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## Locke (6 Jul 2009)

This has to be a wind up. Noone could be this blind to the obvious.


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## so-crates (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Back in 1930's im omaha the government wrote off mortgages for farmers.


 
And they did this because the farmers didn't want to pay? Or rather was it because the farmers couldn't afford to pay? (Hmm, lets see, post-1929 crash and serious liquidity crisis combined with an environmental catastrophe...)

Argentina made a habit of defaulting on its national debt - would you like to cite them as examples of bailouts also?


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## jhegarty (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Constructive advise please.




Here is what will happen based on your plan.

The bank will sell the house as quickly as it can. Will get about €300k.

They will then sue you for the other €170k that is owing.

You don't seem to understand that while the bank gave you a loan to buy a house , they didn't sell you the house.


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## Guest116 (6 Jul 2009)

What are your monthly repayments and what kind of rent could you get if you rented it?

Have you looked at any other options that let you keep the property and not try to "default" ?


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## jaycen (6 Jul 2009)

Ok, here's how it works (from what I understand).

You decide it's not worth your time/money paying the bank for the property and decide to hand the keys back to the bank.
They will take the keys and attempt to sell the house to recoup some of their loss, the rest they will sue you for, the court will find for them as you chose to take the mortgage out and so on.

You will end up paying the difference *and *the court costs (often more than the difference) they'll figure out an easy payment paln for you that will probably take the rest of your working life to clear.

It's really not worth it unless you're going to become bankrupt, you'd be better off working with the bank to reduce your payments over a longer term if it's tight.


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## spursman (6 Jul 2009)

this post is a laugh


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## elcato (6 Jul 2009)

> Im looking to state to the bank look im going to default unless you take it back and to add it to your bad debt loans. Under these circumstances i may decide to throw them an extra 30k ontop and allow them to take a 150K drop in value of the mortgage. However if they decide they dont want it well then they can goto court.


Please, pleeeease give me an invitation to go into the bank with you to hear you tell them this. I would love to see the reaction. They will have a great funny story to tell in the canteen for months starting with 'You wouldn't believe what a customer said the other day ....' and then the laughter will be heard for miles. I really suggest you do this and then you can bring me to court for advising you to do it when you end up paying back the defaulted money over the rest of your life.


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## Lou34 (6 Jul 2009)

I think this post is definitely a wind up.....


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## plant43 (6 Jul 2009)

Sounds like the OP is a seasoned property investor. I don't think it's a PPR that is being talked about here.


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## Raskolnikov (6 Jul 2009)

*Guys, give the wind-up talk a rest. ecstatic has been a long-time contributer to this site and in my experience has always been genuine (e.g. **http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=52254**).*


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## BJRsols (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> To take me to court costs bank a lot of money with a lot of hassle.


 
Costs the bank nothing as all costs are put onto your mortgage account as a debt as per the terms of the mortgage. As for hassle, the appointed solicitor's firm will only be too happy to pursue you as it is income for them!


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## Raskolnikov (6 Jul 2009)

Firstly, we need to establish whether or not you're missing mortgage repayments because you don't have the money, or simply because you refuse to pay. If you simply don't have the money, then you should approach the lender and discuss your options. If they are not satisfied with your capacity to repay, then it's likely they will take you the court. If this happens, the best thing you can do is to comply with whatever the judge orders. Once you're doing everything you can, it's highly unlikely that a judge will put you in jail. 

It was only reported today that 276 people have faced jail time last year because they were unable to pay their debts. If you ignore them problem, _you will_ become another statistic.


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## mf1 (6 Jul 2009)

Some extracts from OP's earlier posts:  

"Im 29 years of age and dont want to be holding negative equity so i may aswell look at the default option. My emotions are not a consideration my financial well being longterm is."

"Im looking for advise as to what happens to someone who has done it not ramblings about my morality."

"I can afford to pay the mortgage but sure if everyone else is doing it why dont I."

"Im looking to state to the bank look im going to default unless you take it back and to add it to your bad debt loans. Under these circumstances i may decide to throw them an extra 30k ontop and allow them to take a 150K drop in value of the mortgage. However if they decide they dont want it well then they can goto court. Its possible for me to relocate abroad at the moment so credit is not a big concern."

mf


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## so-crates (6 Jul 2009)

The OP hasn't stated that they are in difficulty, just that they don't want to carry the burden on negative equity. Given that, their proposed action is exactly the action that will land them into the position they don't want to be in.


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## Lou34 (6 Jul 2009)

Raskolnicov, I don't think anybody is questioning whether the OP is genuine or not but given the potentially dire consequences that could occur as a result of his proposed action I think most contributors have been quite correct in pointing out the serious implications of his strategy.  A slap of the reality stick would be in his best interests in the long term.


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## Robin Banks (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> I understand others who might say well you signed up to it etc etc however this is not a consideration as they valued it and it was valued incorrectly.


 
But you were happy enough with it in 2007 when it was valued at 700k?

lmao @ your brass neck.


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## Lord Snooty (6 Jul 2009)

If you read the OP you would have noticed that he clearly states what he earns and that he has no difficulty paying the mortgage. Either way I am amused by this poster. How he managed to be earning a six figure sum when his intelligence should seriously be called in to question,beggars belief.The thing is,we are all paying and will pay for the likes of this person through NAMA, bank recapitalisation and higher taxes. People like the OP are what our property bubble created and the consequences will be felt for a long long time.
I'd love to know what you do for a living OP.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

Many thanks for your comments okay this comes across as if im a plonker etc. Fair enough everyone has an opinion.

For the banks to chase me through the courts will cost 100K minimum.

Would they not just take the haircut on the 100K off the mortgage?

I have no problem paying off the mortgage but hang on a minute here isnt it my tax money thats been pumped into these banks and NAMA will be a write off off serious property loans im just jumping on the bandwagon allow the banks the bad debts.

Im looking purely from a financial perspective would the bank take a short notice of a significant sum ( i seen brendan mention ) this earlier on the website.

Yes i know its all my fault etc and i have to live with the consequences but id like to know my options to be honest. There has to be some options in my opinion.

The way i look at it the banks bad debt ratio seems to be around 15% so maybe they will take a 15% write off from me and i may aswell take that and buy a property again after for a lower sum.

This is not a windup.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

The farmers went on strike and said no food so a mortgage moratarium was declared.

FYI : Argentinian GDP growth did not fall as drastically as ireland's is and indeed Mexico didnt during the tequila crisis.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

Farmers point was the land is not worth what the mortgage is so take it back. 

If everyone does the same then a moratarium would have to be declared.

We are not in conventional times sometimes we need unconventional thinking.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

What are the options to declare bankruptcy so?


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## Kine (6 Jul 2009)

Ireland is not a nice country to dedclare bankruptcy in, not quite as easy as the US


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

How in what way nice / not nice? 

Can they look at overseas assets?

Explain more please.


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## Lord Snooty (6 Jul 2009)

OP,could you answer me this. What is your occupation? also,are you Irish? If you no particular attachment to the country then you could always do a runner.


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## Steve D (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Many thanks for your comments okay this comes across as if im a plonker etc. Fair enough everyone has an opinion.
> 
> For the banks to chase me through the courts will cost 100K minimum.
> 
> Would they not just take the haircut on the 100K off the mortgage?


 
and why dont you just sell your overseas investment property to help make up the difference, or is that only worth half what you paid for it too? People with such a cavalier, irresponsible, attitude like like you want to take all the gains of your "investments" do well and then expect somebody else (in this case the taxpayer!) to clear up after them when it all goes wrong!


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

and why dont you just sell your overseas investment property to help make up the difference, or is that only worth half what you paid for it too? People with such a cavalier, irresponsible, attitude like like you want to take all the gains if your "investments" do well and then expect somebody else (in this case the taxpayer!) to clear up after them when it all goes wrong!

Why not sure isnt that what the banks do???


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## plant43 (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> For the banks to chase me through the courts will cost 100K minimum.



It will cost them nothing. They'll just add the 100K onto whatever you owe them already and chase you up for that and then they'll be allowed to go after whatever other assets you have to in order to reclaim the debt.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

If i leave ireland then they cannot get the money sure?

How long before i would be allowed to come back with debt having been forgotten?


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## plant43 (6 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> If i leave ireland then they cannot get the money sure?
> 
> How long before i would be allowed to come back with debt having been forgotten?



First part - I wouldn't know, it's possible the bank might chase you.

Second part - never? The debt will never be forgotten.


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## ecstatic (6 Jul 2009)

The thing is the collateral for the loan is on the property and therefore if the property is not worth it well expanding money supply and inflating property stock which banks do should not be allowed / curtailed.


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## Complainer (6 Jul 2009)

While not defending the OP, it is interesting to note the contrast in reactions to the OP's proposal and the everyday occurance at creditors meetings where directors are getting away with paying a fraction of the value of their business debts.


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## so-crates (7 Jul 2009)

Ecstatic it is my taxpayer euro too, I'd rather you didn't presume to spend it frivolously. 

I just don't see the sense of what you are saying at all. Are you in genuine straits that you need to offload the property and can't see any way to pay for the mortgage? Otherwise it just seems silly. The property is only in negative equity if you sell. So why put yourself in that position?

The debt remains and will only grow by your "strategy", the only other possibility is if the debt was forgiven by the bank but honestly - I think that would be wishful thinking ... definitely something I wouldn't be "banking" on. Bankruptcy in Ireland is a permanent state, there is no leaving it. You would be hard-pressed to ever enter another credit agreement in this state.

Your approach appears to be based on financial law in the US rather than in Ireland, the concept of handing back a property, defaulting on the debt is legal in several states. Also the option of declaring bankruptcy is not an irreversible step which permanantly inhibits you and blights your financial flexibility and well-being. 

Farmers in 1930's mid-America had rather more cogent and basic reasons for having to take such a drastic move. It wasn't because they had speculated wildly on the price of property two years previously that they were in dire straits. Comparing your situation (or rather I should say our situation as it affects a fair proportion of people in their late twenties and thirties) to theirs is to presume that the reasons for default hold equal weight - they simply don't. If everyone was to do the same then we would deserve to have the IMF come in and babysit us.

(Argentina has quite an "illustrious" history of debt default, perhaps it is more appropriate to your situation, as you say they have in the past defaulted far easier than other countries)


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## EireAlba (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> If i leave ireland then they cannot get the money sure?
> 
> How long before i would be allowed to come back with debt having been forgotten?



They can sell the debt to a debt collection agency abroad who will take e.g. a 10% cut of your debt owed to chase you down and get the money. These debt collection agencies are pretty determined and know every legal trick in the book (and some illegal ones, such as harassment) so they're not easy to escape. If you did want to escape them, the USA or China would be your best bet because as far as I know there isn't much legal reach into those countries from abroad. You'd struggle to get a visa for any country that requires one though as most require you to be in good financial standing in your home country so if you have an outstanding court order against you for non-payment of debts, you could forget getting a visa for e.g. the US. 

If you go to the EU, on the other hand, it's easier for a debt collection agency to find you because the laws across the EU are more harmonised. If you did want to default, you'd be wise to get the visa for somewhere relatively impenetrable e.g. Russia or China first and then default from abroad.

I'm not advocating that though: you made your bed, so you should lie in it. If you want to play the bankruptcy game like the big players do then you need to have all your assets offshore to begin with and any properties in your wife's or family's name so they can't trace you etc. There are lots of tricks that professional conmen use but if you want to go on to live the life of a normal, respectable person then they're not really open to you. 

Re your other question on bankruptcy: Bankruptcy in Ireland is only discharged after 12 years (AFAIK) and for that entire time, the courts can sequester your earnings and, if applicable, put you in prison for non-payment of debt at any time. If you're a solicitor, civil servant or company director that's the end of your career too. You're probably confusing this with countries like the US, UK, TV-land etc where bankruptcy is relatively painless. In the UK, for example, bankruptcy lasts 1 year although creditors can chase you for bills for longer depending on what was agreed. There are stories of people who went into negative equity in the UK in the early 90s still being chased for the debt into the early 2000s. 

The banks should have been more regulated in their lending but what's done is done. You took out a debt and now you have to take responsibility for your situation. Without a nation-wide debt moratorium or overhaul of the bankruptcy laws, it's hard to see what's going to improve in the near future. Tried to find a link for you with a guide to bankruptcy in Ireland but there were no real sites I could find easily - maybe call MABS and see what information they have?


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## jambo.ie (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Many thanks for your comments okay this comes across as if im a plonker etc. Fair enough everyone has an opinion.
> 
> For the banks to chase me through the courts will cost 100K minimum.
> 
> ...


The banks are spending millions taking mortgage defaulters to court these days. The primary motive for this is not to recover their money, per court case it likely costs them more to recover than write off. The primary motivation is to keep mortgage holders in line. If they let one defaulter off easy, then it will start a deluge.

The same logic you are applying to your own case could be applied to other mortgages totaling billions of euro. The banks want you to know that they can make you pay. If it takes them 40 years to recover the money then so be it. These banks have been around for hundreds of years and thanks to Mssrs Cowen and Lenihan will likely be around for hundreds more.


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## Robin Banks (7 Jul 2009)

Complainer said:


> While not defending the OP, it is interesting to note the contrast in reactions to the OP's proposal and the everyday occurance at creditors meetings where directors are getting away with paying a fraction of the value of their business debts.


 
Presumably their companies are in severe financial difficulty and they're unable to meet their obligations. The OP can well afford to repay their mortgage so your comparison is invalid.


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## ecstatic (7 Jul 2009)

Its clear to me that the mortgage is based on the asset and that default should be an option.

How would i go about transferring the mortgage and property into a company so as i could default in a more legally non challenging way.

I see no problem in doing this Argentina didnt have       --15% GDP after there crisis in one year.

The reality is that the banks and politicians have taken this show too far and now its time to let it go. Ireland perhaps would be much quicker into recovery with a default scenario. 

Whats the difference between joe bloggs defaulting and some large companies defaulting?

Im trying to keep my options open and if the banks as they are doing continue to restrict lending well they have the asset they can keep it. 

Restriction of lending is whats forcing prices down moreso than anything else. 

These banks have to go if we all default they will go .


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## spursman (7 Jul 2009)

have you money problems or something after living your high roller life 

why would you default on a property unless you were broke.


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## Kate10 (7 Jul 2009)

You are totally deluded.  

The bank did not make this investment.  You did.  The bank's business is to lend money and make a profit on that.  It is not to take risk alongside you.  If you make a profit on a property investment you do not pay a portion of that profit to the bank.  Equally, if you make a loss, the bank does not share that loss.  

You are contractually obliged to repay the money borrowed to the bank, together with interest.  If you fail/refuse to do so the bank will seize the property, sell it for whatever it can get, and sue you for the difference.  No court will have sympathy for someone like you, who can pay but couldn't be arsed taking responsibility.  The court will find against you and it is very likely that you will also be found liable for the bank's costs.  i.e. your total debt is now the difference between the market price and mortgage plus interest arrears plus both sides court costs.

The bank will then use every available debt collection method against you, including but not limited to a judgement mortgage against any other property held by you, attachment order, installment order, and ultimately (assuming new legislation is through) a warrant will be issued for your arrest and you will be jailed.

If you emigrate to any EU country your debt will follow you.  I am not sure about methods of enforcement in other countries, but running away from your responsibilities has a tendency to come back to haunt people.  It is also morally repugnant, whether you want to hear that or not.


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## Guest116 (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Its clear to me that the mortgage is based on the asset and that default should be an option..


 
Did you buy the property as an investment or a home?

You still haven't answered on whether you have looked at other options that allows you to keep the property e.g. rent rooms, rent out fully, etc

I think you don't have any clue why you bought the property in the first place, it sounds you wanted to make a quick buck.

Also, the mortgage is secured against an asset but you need to be very clear that it is a personal debt and you will not be able to just "default" without consequences.


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## Complainer (7 Jul 2009)

Robin Banks said:


> Presumably their companies are in severe financial difficulty and they're unable to meet their obligations. The OP can well afford to repay their mortgage so your comparison is invalid.


Given that many of the directors of the companies in question seem to have addresses on Ailsbury Rd & Shrewsbury Rd, it doesn't appear that their directors are in severe financial difficulty.


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## jaycen (7 Jul 2009)

The banks don't/didn't inflate the price of your property.

You borrowed using it as a guarantee, it's the amount you borrowed that's the mortgage, not the properety and that won't change regardless, even if the property was completely worthless, you still borrowed the initial sum.

Imagine buying a car using a bank loan and then deciding not to pay because it depreciated, you're floating around in cuckoo land.


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## ecstatic (7 Jul 2009)

Way i look at it is why not let them take the hit. 

The way the government is why not let em have the loss might get em out of power quicker.

I know of a lot of people who are thinking same way as me. 

Its not sore grapes or whatever yes i can afford it but should i bother paying it back if it will take 20 years to recover in price ?

Can someone tells me what will happen / if anyone has defaulted / talked to the bank about defaulting.


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## jhegarty (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> The way the government is why not let em have the loss .......




Do you understand where the government gets it's money?


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## Mpsox (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Way i look at it is why not let them take the hit.
> 
> The way the government is why not let em have the loss might get em out of power quicker.
> 
> ...


 
What will happen if you default? It's simple, the bank will seize the asset(the house), will sell it eventually for whatever they can get for it, and asusming they don't recover the full debit, *you will be liable for the remainder. *

What happened in other countries in the past, what ever the "moral highground" you seem to think applies in Ireland right now, whatever the view on whether or not the banks are responsible is completely and utterly irrelevant, *you will be liable for the remainder.* Those are the facts, it may not be the story you want to hear but that is the real world. 

It will not cost the bank €100k to take this to court, the Govt has ordered that such cases now get dealt with in the Circuit Court, not the High Court and legisaltion around this will be passed in a few weeks

The consequences for you are simple

You'll be liable for the debt
Your credit history will be rubbish
you'll have difficulty getting another loan/credit card etc in the future


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## mtk (7 Jul 2009)

many large companies check your credit rating before employing you...


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## moneyhoney (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Way i look at it is why not let them take the hit.



The bank won't take the hit - you will. 

If you default, the bank will, eventually, reposess your house & sell it for whatever they can get. The rest of what you owe them (plus legal bills) & interest will continue to grow until you pay it back. They will hound you for this money for the rest of your life. 

The mortgage will remain on the ICB for five years *after you have repaid it in full*. So, if you don't intend to ever pay back what you owe, you will never be able to get a loan, mortgage, credit card & most likely a bank account in ireland ever again. 

ICB isn't used by foreign banks, so that wouldn't be a problem. However, you will have a judgement registered against you & that could prove tricky. 

If you plan on heading off to Thailand or somewhere like that, you could probably get away with it - but do you want to live in Thailand for the rest of your life???


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## Kine (7 Jul 2009)

Hehe let them "take the hit". This is the funniest thread I have read in ages. 

Do you have any idea what sort of state our country would be in right now had the government not done what they did to shore up the banking sector? None of us want the bloody IMF in, as that'll be the end of us all!

Anyway, assuming everything still doesn't go belly up, the governemnt stands to make money out of the guarantee schemes (to the tune of several million euros). The only thing which is still a little blurry is NAMA, but that'll be going off-topic too much.

Simply put, if everyone did what you are trying to do (i.e. walk away from their obligation) the country would collapse as all the banks would collapse. There are tens of thousands of people in negative equity (myself included) but so long as I don't need to sell (as I can afford the repayments) negative equity does not exist! The markets will recover, not immediately, but these things come in peaks and troughs, we're just in a pretty big trough at the moment.


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## ecstatic (7 Jul 2009)

the government have pumped minimum of 7 billion + into the banks so far thats circa 8% of gdp and backstopping anglo will probably cost the same again!!!

if we all default we would send a serious signal.


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## Kate10 (7 Jul 2009)

Ecstatic, 

Listen - you've been told and told and told what will happen.  You are not going to get the answer you want here.  The bank gave you a loan, it did not make a property investment - YOU did that all by yourself.  Grow up for god's sake.


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## Guest116 (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> the government have pumped minimum of 7 billion + into the banks so far thats circa 8% of gdp and backstopping anglo will probably cost the same again!!!
> 
> if we all default we would send a serious signal.


 
Ok, are you being serious or just winding people up with this thread? Seriously come on now?!


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## Mpsox (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> the government have pumped minimum of 7 billion + into the banks so far thats circa 8% of gdp and backstopping anglo will probably cost the same again!!!
> 
> if we all default we would send a serious signal.


 
you're correct it would send a serious signal and *you will still be responsible for your debt*


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## spursman (7 Jul 2009)

the OP is obviously just having a laugh. he rode the gravy train for years and now dosent want to face up to HIS mistakes. look man, you made a massive mistake buying this property, try and be a man and admit that


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## so-crates (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> if we all default we would send a serious signal.


 
yes - the first sensible thing you said! Just a shame you don't mean it the way I would 

ecstatic - face up to it. You've asked the question can you default painlessly and walk away scot free, the answer is no defaulting isn't an easy or an quick fix option. By all means, talk to your bank, offer them your proposal and see what they say.


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## Locke (7 Jul 2009)

Kate10 said:


> Ecstatic,
> 
> Listen - you've been told and told and told what will happen. You are not going to get the answer you want here. The bank gave you a loan, it did not make a property investment - YOU did that all by yourself. Grow up for god's sake.


 
Totally agree, and on this note, can I request the Mods close this thread.

OP has been told what will happen and the thread is destined to end up OP giving out about Banks and Goverment.


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## ecstatic (7 Jul 2009)

Has anyone actually any experience of defaulting that they could share?


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## moneyhoney (7 Jul 2009)

ecstatic said:


> Has anyone actually any experience of defaulting that they could share?



Read this: http://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/to_no_ones_credit_june09.pdf


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## woderick (7 Jul 2009)

Everything that's wrong with the country, why not grow a pair (testes and brain cells)?
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=52254


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## Lou34 (7 Jul 2009)

I believe the OP posted this back in 2008 in response to an investor who had lost money on commercial venture in NY....!!!????  Perhaps he should take his own advice!!!

*Re: KMS New York Apt Fall out* 
You are joking no>?

U took the risk so should have positioned your hedge correctly.


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## spursman (7 Jul 2009)

greed


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## jhegarty (7 Jul 2009)

Lou34 said:


> I believe the OP posted this back in 2008 in response to an investor who had lost money on commercial venture in NY....!!!????  Perhaps he should take his own advice!!!
> 
> *Re: KMS New York Apt Fall out*
> You are joking no>?
> ...



lol , post of the year.


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## so-crates (7 Jul 2009)

curiously, that is just plain rude, your comment adds nothing to the discussion.

Love that lou34 - I was just looking for the same post


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## Lou34 (7 Jul 2009)

so-crates....it does get better!

Posted in 2007

"Recently i was in a not so insimiliar situation as yourself probably worse i was negative on my property but had good LTV. I remortgaged etc bit the bullet and wouldnt look back.  A good book i recommend is "the coming economic collapse" fantastic."

Nuff said..............I think all that can be said on this thread has been said!


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## Guest116 (7 Jul 2009)

In April 2007 the OP (ecstatic) said...

"I bought a property for 555K with a mortgage on it of 510k which has an approximate value of 700K. Tracker mortgage ECB +1% .

My personal finances are 100K a year with a steady position / working life. 40K-50K in my bank account aged 27. 

Also own an property valued at 210k with mortgage of 100k on it in foreign country, this cannot be remortgaged as easily as in Ireland as it takes so long to process.

I am looking to purchase investment properties potentially in London / Continential Europe with high leverage and interest only combined with high yield to pay for it. 

Whats the best approach and which bank is the best to sort out a remortgage and to what value can i remortgage? It is my PPR.

Any advice appreciated on moving my financial matters forward. "

Also..

"Ldferguson, only interested in repayment on my home as its my PPR. Interest only on investment stuff as it seems to be way to go from advice on AAM and other sources. Who offers 95% on PPR and at what rate ?"


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## DrMoriarty (7 Jul 2009)

I think this thread has run its course.


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