# Log cabin



## thecat777 (29 Apr 2021)

Hi, we would like to buy a land, it is located in a village in Co Mayo. We would also like to put a small log cabin there, up to 25 sq m. Do we need a planning permission for this? Also, if there is no planning permission, would we have any difficulties getting the cabin connected to electricity with ESB, in other words, in order to get electricity connected, do we need planning permission?

Many thanks


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## RedOnion (29 Apr 2021)

Yes, you need planning permission.

You can get electricity supply without planning. 

You cannot install a septic tank without planning.


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## thecat777 (29 Apr 2021)

RedOnion said:


> Yes, you need planning permission.
> 
> You can get electricity supply without planning.
> 
> You cannot install a septic tank without planning.


Thanks for your reply. please would you be able to clarify why would I need planning permission. The regulations state that permission is not required if the building is less than 25 sq m?


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## noproblem (29 Apr 2021)

thecat777 said:


> Thanks for your reply. please would you be able to clarify why would I need planning permission. The regulations state that permission is not required if the building is less than 25 sq m?


For an extension maybe, where you're already living in a place. If you're going to put up a new building to live in, with all the services supplied, i'd imagine PP is needed regardless of size.


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## RedOnion (29 Apr 2021)

thecat777 said:


> The regulations state that permission is not required if the building is less than 25 sq m?


Where exactly does it state that?

Apart from non-habitable buildings within the curtilage of a home, I'm not aware of such an exemption. 

You even need planning permission to keep a caravan in the sane place more than 10 days.


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## thecat777 (29 Apr 2021)

Thanks to everyone. We are not really planning to connect to any services, I was just curios about the electricity. We would like to use it for camping from time to time, we will have probably compost toilet and generator for electricity.


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## Leo (29 Apr 2021)

thecat777 said:


> Thanks for your reply. please would you be able to clarify why would I need planning permission. The regulations state that permission is not required if the building is less than 25 sq m?


I believe you are mistaking the exemption for a non-habitable shed. But that exemption only applies on a site with a fully authorised dwelling house and some other restrictions apply. 



thecat777 said:


> Thanks to everyone. We are not really planning to connect to any services, I was just curios about the electricity. We would like to use it for camping from time to time, we will have probably compost toilet and generator for electricity.


What you are proposing is illegal. Even if you want to occasionally stay in a caravan on a piece of land you require planning.  I know a guy who used to live in a small log cabin in a remote area. Got away with it for a few years, but ended up costing him a lot of money in fines and removing it all and returning the site to original state.


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## RedOnion (29 Apr 2021)

Leo said:


> Got away with it for a few years, but ended up costing him a lot of money in fines and removing it all and returning the site to original state.


Not only that, but you can also make it very difficult for yourself to ever get planning permission on the site in future.


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## thecat777 (29 Apr 2021)

Leo said:


> I believe you are mistaking the exemption for a non-habitable shed. But that exemption only applies on a site with a fully authorised dwelling house and some other restrictions apply.
> 
> 
> What you are proposing is illegal. Even if you want to occasionally stay in a caravan on a piece of land you require planning.  I know a guy who used to live in a small log cabin in a remote area. Got away with it for a few years, but ended up costing him a lot of money in fines and removing it all and returning the site to original state.


thanks  for your reply...however, I am a bit confused as to what is illegal- to use our own land as wild camping for my kids? Probably I misunderstood you.


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## thecat777 (29 Apr 2021)

what if I want to have a small shed to use as a storage and sleep in a tent? Would that be illegal too?
I am getting really confused with the planning rules. The site is currently covered with bushes, weeds, lots of small trees, would I need a planning permission to clear out the weeds and bushes and just leave the bigger trees, to keep the wild look? Many thanks again.


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## huskerdu (29 Apr 2021)

You specifically asked about building a log cabin,  not camping in a tent. 

Its illegal for you to build a log cabin without planning permission.


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## Leo (29 Apr 2021)

thecat777 said:


> thanks  for your reply...however, I am a bit confused as to what is illegal- to use our own land as wild camping for my kids? Probably I misunderstood you.


You can camp in a temporary tent on your own land. you can not erect any kind of building or structure to stay in on you own land without obtaining planning permission.


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## Leo (29 Apr 2021)

thecat777 said:


> what if I want to have a small shed to use as a storage and sleep in a tent? Would that be illegal too?
> I am getting really confused with the planning rules. The site is currently covered with bushes, weeds, lots of small trees, would I need a planning permission to clear out the weeds and bushes and just leave the bigger trees, to keep the wild look? Many thanks again.


There are exemptions (again with restrictions) available for the erection of sheds on an active farm for ancillary use as part of the farm. That certainly isn't what you've asked about here. 

The planning rules are actually very clear, unless what you propose is explicitly listed as exempt, you must obtain planning permission. If in doubt, submit a Section 5 Declaration and the local authority will let you know for sure.


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## Pinoy adventure (29 Apr 2021)

You specifically asked about building a log cabin,  not camping in a tent. 

Its illegal for you to build a log cabin without planning permission.
[/QUOTE]

Would you consider these company's who install log cabins in many a rear garden are doing so illegally ???


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## huskerdu (29 Apr 2021)

Pinoy adventure said:


> You specifically asked about building a log cabin,  not camping in a tent.
> 
> Its illegal for you to build a log cabin without planning permission.



Would you consider these company's who install log cabins in many a rear garden are doing so illegally ???
[/QUOTE]

As has been said on this thread, building something in your garden, is different to building on land which doesn't currently have a house on it ( as was implied in the OP). 

Also, there is a big difference, in planning law between a shed or office and a habitable building.


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## Monbretia (29 Apr 2021)

I am on a self build FB page, there is always questions about log cabins and yes I'd say there are a fair few of them going up in back gardens and being used as residential, the bulk of them are not looking for planning and the companies doing them know that too.   Must say I will probably join the illegal ranks myself as I want something temporary when visiting a relative and they have room for a small cabin/shed/garden room  where I could put a sofa bed.     There is access for emergencies which is one of the only concerns I would have, I wouldn't like to live in one that was in an unaccessible back garden.

I believe the bulk of the problem with back garden planning is more to do with the cabins not meeting regulations for habitable buildings rather than the cabin itself, can have it fine as an office or games room but living in it is a different story.   Getting one on a green field site has the regs problem as well as normal planning problems.

I lived in a mobile home for several years when first married, very comfortable and no one asked about planning those times for shoving one at the back of the parents house but those days are gone!


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## Leo (30 Apr 2021)

Monbretia said:


> There is access for emergencies which is one of the only concerns I would have,


Carbon monoxide & dioxide problems don't tend to need a lot of emergency services access...you're dealing with death or respiratory issues there.


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## Monbretia (30 Apr 2021)

Leo said:


> Carbon monoxide & dioxide problems don't tend to need a lot of emergency services access...you're dealing with death or respiratory issues there.


Where is the carbon monoxide coming from?


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## Leo (30 Apr 2021)

Monbretia said:


> Where is the carbon monoxide coming from?


People often put small stoves in these as a heat source.


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## Monbretia (30 Apr 2021)

Leo said:


> People often put small stoves in these as a heat source.


Sure same would apply to having a stove in any house, need to have the detectors and ventilation etc.


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## Leo (30 Apr 2021)

Monbretia said:


> Sure same would apply to having a stove in any house, need to have the detectors and ventilation etc.



Exactly, and pretty much all log cabins fail to meet the required standards for ventilation of habitable space.


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## Monbretia (30 Apr 2021)

If I get that far it's an oil filled radiator for heating!


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## Leo (4 May 2021)

Monbretia said:


> If I get that far it's an oil filled radiator for heating!



Some look to swap those out due to the high running costs, they're really only designed to be a supplemental heat source.


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## Monbretia (4 May 2021)

Leo said:


> Some look to swap those out due to the high running costs, they're really only designed to be a supplemental heat source.



I imagine a better source of heat would be needed for permanent living, I'm looking at couple of nights a month so radiator more than sufficient.  Think if I wanted one permanently I'd get a gas boiler and radiators.


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## Leo (5 May 2021)

Monbretia said:


> I imagine a better source of heat would be needed for permanent living, I'm looking at couple of nights a month so radiator more than sufficient.  Think if I wanted one permanently I'd get a gas boiler and radiators.



Make sure it's well ventilated when not in use to prevent mould build up.


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## Whatnot (24 Oct 2021)

Has anyone known of or have any experience in living in one for the duration of a self build, assuming the council are ok with the idea of it being a temporary situation only to last while the house is being built


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## Thirsty (24 Oct 2021)

I believe you can apply for planning for a temp mobile home at the same time as you apply for planning for the main house.


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## Leo (27 Oct 2021)

As above, must have planning and some authorities might be wary of granting permission for a log cabin that appears more permanent.


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## Whatnot (28 Oct 2021)

I do see a lot more people putting up mobile homes on there sites, probably with out permission wonder how they are getting away with that, not something that I would be into


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## lff12 (21 Jul 2022)

Leo said:


> I believe you are mistaking the exemption for a non-habitable shed. But that exemption only applies on a site with a fully authorised dwelling house and some other restrictions apply.
> 
> 
> What you are proposing is illegal. Even if you want to occasionally stay in a caravan on a piece of land you require planning.  I know a guy who used to live in a small log cabin in a remote area. Got away with it for a few years, but ended up costing him a lot of money in fines and removing it all and returning the site to original state.


Correct. Compost toilets might sound environmentally friendly but most local authorities will not regard them as being an adequate treatment of waste water and will not permit them. If you put them in without PP you are breaking the law.
Anything that is a "dwelling" (i.e. designed for habitation) needs to be compliant with planning guidelines and local rules. You might get around this by buying a plot with a derelict building, and then apply to live temporarily in a caravan while "renovating" the derelict building.


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## lff12 (21 Jul 2022)

Monbretia said:


> I am on a self build FB page, there is always questions about log cabins and yes I'd say there are a fair few of them going up in back gardens and being used as residential, the bulk of them are not looking for planning and the companies doing them know that too.   Must say I will probably join the illegal ranks myself as I want something temporary when visiting a relative and they have room for a small cabin/shed/garden room  where I could put a sofa bed.     There is access for emergencies which is one of the only concerns I would have, I wouldn't like to live in one that was in an unaccessible back garden.
> 
> I believe the bulk of the problem with back garden planning is more to do with the cabins not meeting regulations for habitable buildings rather than the cabin itself, can have it fine as an office or games room but living in it is a different story.   Getting one on a green field site has the regs problem as well as normal planning problems.
> 
> I lived in a mobile home for several years when first married, very comfortable and no one asked about planning those times for shoving one at the back of the parents house but those days are gone!


You would be surprised. My brother's neighbour put in one that is well above the 40m2 limit and less than 1m from boundary walls, and has it rented out to tenants. Complained to council as illegal development more than 1 year ago and the case is still ongoing. Never even looked for retention later on. The cowboys who put it in didn't give a damn, even when they were told what they were doing is illegal. You might get away with it for a bit, but it is possible to end up in court with all the costs that entails.


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## Monbretia (21 Jul 2022)

lff12 said:


> You would be surprised. My brother's neighbour put in one that is well above the 40m2 limit and less than 1m from boundary walls, and has it rented out to tenants. Complained to council as illegal development more than 1 year ago and the case is still ongoing. Never even looked for retention later on. The cowboys who put it in didn't give a damn, even when they were told what they were doing is illegal. You might get away with it for a bit, but it is possible to end up in court with all the costs that entails.


It will be well below size allowed and if there is any hassle it will be converted early to the gym it will be when I pop off anyway!


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## lff12 (21 Jul 2022)

Monbretia said:


> It will be well below size allowed and if there is any hassle it will be converted early to the gym it will be when I pop off anyway!


"size allowed" only applies if there is already a house on the site. If there is nothing on the site then you need PP regardless of the size of the home.


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## Monbretia (21 Jul 2022)

lff12 said:


> "size allowed" only applies if there is already a house on the site. If there is nothing on the site then you need PP regardless of the size of the home.


Of course there is!  I said I was visiting a relative, they live in a house, they'd also hardly want a gym sitting in some random field not beside their house!    Alternatively I might just convert half their double garage for convenience


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## Harfang (21 Jul 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Of course there is!  I said I was visiting a relative, they live in a house, they'd also hardly want a gym sitting in some random field not beside their house!    Alternatively I might just convert half their double garage for convenience


Buy a camper van. Sounds like it could be handier


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## Leo (22 Jul 2022)

Harfang said:


> Buy a camper van. Sounds like it could be handier


Only if you want to live in it you must have planning permission. Storage only is permitted for a single caravan or campervan for up to 9 months per year.


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## Leo (22 Jul 2022)

lff12 said:


> You might get around this by buying a plot with a derelict building, and then apply to live temporarily in a caravan while "renovating" the derelict building.


Assuming the house is classed as derelict or even just declared as such to avoid paying property tax, then full planning will be required to bring it back into use. They could include temporary permission for the caravan along with that.


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## lff12 (25 Jul 2022)

Leo said:


> Assuming the house is classed as derelict or even just declared as such to avoid paying property tax, then full planning will be required to bring it back into use. They could include temporary permission for the caravan along with that.


You're right actually - so basically, rule of the game is that PP is required in nearly all circumstances.


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