# AIB and BoI cancel Christmas staff parties



## DerKaiser (9 Nov 2009)

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-and-boi-cancel-christmas-staff-parties-1937641.html

I have to say that this is something I don't really understand.

The 3% pay raise probably costs over €1000 p.a. for the average employee whilst a Christmas party could cost as little as €30-40 per head for a decent venue with a few drinks and some buffet food.

Do all principles of staff morale go out the window in a recession?

Most employees recognise that wage costs, etc need to be contained. Cancelling a christmas party is something that saves very little money and has a huge negative impact on staff morale.

I know it's illogical but I'd certainly feel more appreciated by an employer if pay rises were postponed but small occasional efforts, like having a christmas Party, were made to remind employees that their work is appreciated.  This is espcially the case with all the negativity around at the moment.


----------



## liaconn (9 Nov 2009)

I'd say it's for the optics more than anything. Imagine the papers if they heard that, on top of a pay rise, bank staff were also being wined and dined for free.


----------



## Caveat (9 Nov 2009)

I agree.

Probably a bit of a publicity stunt more than anything.


----------



## Sunny (9 Nov 2009)

The stupid thing is that in this economic environment, pubs and restaurants need all the help they can get. Companies should be encouraged to spend money in the local economy instead of worrying about optics. It's only a few drinks for God's sake. And before people from the public sector come on saying they never get anything, I would have no problem with them enjoying a few drinks at Xmas time.

I remember the good old days of working in investment banking in London and having Kylie sing at our party. I miss those days! Shame we didn't have clue about actual investment banking!


----------



## Purple (9 Nov 2009)

Sunny said:


> I remember the good old days of working in investment banking in London and having Kylie sing at our party. I miss those days! Shame we didn't have clue about actual investment banking!



 Excellent!


----------



## Latrade (9 Nov 2009)

There's a huge knock on effect with cancelling these parties, from hotels even down to bands and Djs (I'm sure both of those always declared the income anyway....)

But I have some sympathy with the banks, imagine the media storm if they did run an event or series of events and sponsored it.


----------



## Mpsox (9 Nov 2009)

When I worked for some of AIB/BOIs competition, we were lucky if as managers we got a contribution of €15 a head for a Christmas party and that was 5 years ago. Staff had to pay the rest themselves


----------



## DerKaiser (9 Nov 2009)

Latrade said:


> But I have some sympathy with the banks, imagine the media storm if they did run an event or series of events and sponsored it.


 
That's the joke of it all.  Who is drumming up the media storm?  Are ordinary people shocked that the employers of other ordinary people are treating them to a few 'thank you' drinks at christmas?  

My view is that these decisions are being made in boardrooms and the guys at the top cannot distinguish between over the top junkets and a few simple drinks for the ordinary staff at the end of the year.


----------



## TarfHead (9 Nov 2009)

The Banks
Damned when they do
Damned when they don't


----------



## Complainer (9 Nov 2009)

DerKaiser said:


> http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-and-boi-cancel-christmas-staff-parties-1937641.html
> 
> I have to say that this is something I don't really understand.
> 
> ...


Just curious - would you take the same view on Xmas parties for public sector staff? [For the record, I haven't come across any public body that pays for such a party anyway]


----------



## Lex Foutish (9 Nov 2009)

liaconn said:


> I'd say it's for the optics more than anything. Imagine the papers if they heard that, on top of a pay rise, bank staff were also being wined and dined for free.


 
Yes. A friend of mine who works in a bank told me that they can well afford it but that they've been told "No party" because it would look bad PR wise.


----------



## DerKaiser (9 Nov 2009)

Complainer said:


> Just curious - would you take the same view on Xmas parties for public sector staff?



Of course.  A boost to staff morale which costs relatively little makes sense in any employment.


----------



## z107 (9 Nov 2009)

If the tax payer wasn't bailing these banks out with skip loads of money, I couldn't care less if they had parties or not. However, I don't see why they should have a Christmas party at the tax payers' expense.

Indeed, many real private sector companies can't afford to party! They made the right decision... for once.


----------



## liaconn (10 Nov 2009)

DerKaiser said:


> That's the joke of it all. Who is drumming up the media storm? Are ordinary people shocked that the employers of other ordinary people are treating them to a few 'thank you' drinks at christmas?
> 
> My view is that these decisions are being made in boardrooms and the guys at the top cannot distinguish between over the top junkets and a few simple drinks for the ordinary staff at the end of the year.


 
I agree, but I can see it from the bank's point of view. Even if it was just a glass of wine and a cocktail sausage in the canteen it would be translated as an 'extravagent party' by rags like the Sunday Indo. There is also bound to be someone who'd come on here  spluttering indignantly about how their next door neighbour's cousin works for AIB and you WON'T BELIEVE THIS BUT......

I think the Banks have made the right decision. There is nothing to stop individual managers buying a few bottles of wine for their staff or taking them to the pub for a drink after work.


----------



## terrontress (10 Nov 2009)

I'd imagine that the lowest gross monthly salary paid to a bank official in Ireland probably falls in to the €1,800 - €2,000 bracket.

What harm can it do to increase this by €50 for one month?

People also have to realise that better morale in the workforce pays dividends as regards productivity.

The notion of any employer having their staff work through December and pack up on the 24th without any acknowledgement of Christmas makes me quite sad, to be honest.


----------



## Towger (10 Nov 2009)

I miss bringing my children to the annual free Panto in the Gaiety. Little did I know that my children and I would spend the rest of our lives paying for those tickets!


----------



## TarfHead (10 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I don't see why they should have a Christmas party at the tax payers' expense.


 
What's the guessing the Sindo will next be calling for the abolition of *all* Christmas parties funded "_at the taxpayer's expense_"  ?


----------



## liaconn (10 Nov 2009)

TarfHead said:


> What's the guessing the Sindo will next be calling for the abolition of *all* Christmas parties funded "_at the taxpayer's expense_"  ?


 
Well, they were moaning on Sunday about Civil Servants getting 'generous' compassionate leave if their spouse or child dies!!! (You get 5 days!).


----------



## z107 (10 Nov 2009)

> The notion of any employer having their staff work through December and pack up on the 24th without any acknowledgement of Christmas makes me quite sad, to be honest.


In our company, we'll all have to work right though Christmas this year, including Christmas day. (We develop payroll software, and the budget is later than usual this year)


----------



## terrontress (10 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> In our company, we'll all have to work right though Christmas this year, including Christmas day. (We develop payroll software, and the budget is later than usual this year)


 
Well I hope that you will be generously paid above the normal rate for giving up your Christmas day, that Christmas day work will be optional, that there will be a good atmosphere in the office on the day and maybe a few drinks, crackers, paper crowns etc., you will get time off to enjoy the festive period with your family and finally that your employer is going to shell out for a party at some point!


----------



## z107 (10 Nov 2009)

> Well I hope that you will be generously paid above the normal rate for giving up your Christmas day, that Christmas day work will be optional, that there will be a good atmosphere in the office on the day and maybe a few drinks, crackers, paper crowns etc., you will get time off to enjoy the festive period with your family and finally that your employer is going to shell out for a party at some point!


Lol

No, we're actually happy enough to have jobs. We can take it a bit easier in the Summer.


----------



## terrontress (10 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Lol
> 
> No, we're actually happy enough to have jobs. We can take it a bit easier in the Summer.


 
Well, it is good you feel that way but I think it is a bit heartless of your employer when their staff really are going the extra mile.

Good on you for doing it! And good for your family for being so understanding.


----------



## Eanair (13 Nov 2009)

I work in an international bank, and we've had a ban for over a year on Christmas parties etc. We do still have department nights out, but they can't be booked in the bank's name due to adverse press coverage. The press coverage at one point got to the stage where some people were sent abroad to evaluate an outsourcing company that the bank was planning to use and it ended up in the press as a management junket (one manager, a few technical specialists). 

As to who complains, probably the same people who can't differentiate between the bank worker at the lowest level in the hierarchy and the CEO of the whole bank, and lump them together as banking fat cats.


----------



## levelpar (13 Nov 2009)

Sorry to hear bank staff Christmas parties   are being cancelled.  Don't worry because your bosses have made up for that .

The fat cats of the banks had a nice evening bash in the Burlington attending the Institute of Bankers' dinner.

You will be happy to know they shared  fine wines and five-star food. Tables of 10 cost €1000  . According to Shane Ross they dined on smoked salmon and crabmear followed by baked fillets of halibut and barbary duck with seasonal vegetables.  

Nurse Nightingale, Mary Harney, deputised for Brian Lenihan and a good time was had by one and all


----------



## TarfHead (13 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> According to Shane Ross ..


 


Says it all, really

What's '_Five-star food_'  ? Even Michelin only goes to 3 and there are none of those in Ireland ?


----------



## levelpar (13 Nov 2009)

> Says it all, really
> 
> What's '_Five-star food_'  ? Even Michelin only goes to 3 and there are none of those in Ireland ?


 


> What's the guessing the Sindo will next be calling for the abolition of *all* Christmas parties funded "_at the taxpayer's expense_"


 
Firstly, the event took place and that's the point,  Secondly, methinks you have a beef with the ,as you say, Sindo


----------



## Purple (13 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> Sorry to hear bank staff Christmas parties   are being cancelled.  Don't worry because your bosses have made up for that .
> 
> The fat cats of the banks had a nice evening bash in the Burlington attending the Institute of Bankers' dinner.
> 
> ...


 €100 a head for dinner and drinks, not bad really... you'd hardly get a starter in Patrick Guilbaud's for that (the only place on the island with two Michelin stars). 
Oh, by the way, the Institute of Bankers dinner is not a staff dinner for the employees of banks.

I don't, nor ever have, worked in a bank but that sort of tabloid rubbish gets up my nose. 
I can put a starter of crab meat and smoked salmon together for about €3.50 per plate from stuff I can get in Lidl. Mr Guilbaud wouldn’t give a starter like that to his cat.


----------



## liaconn (13 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> Firstly, the event took place and that's the point, Secondly, methinks you have a beef with the ,as you say, Sindo


 

A lot of us have a beef with the Sindo. Mainly because they print rubbish, exaggerations and downright lies in a self righteous tone while lauding a group of 'celebrities' on their back page many of whom epitomise what was wrong with the celtic tiger.


----------



## levelpar (13 Nov 2009)

> Oh, by the way, the Institute of Bankers dinner is not a staff dinner for the employees of banks.


If you took time to read properly what was written, you would realise that the bash was for the bosses NOT the employees 



> Tables of 10 cost €1000


That's what the man wrote ,maybe he dropped a nought.

I was making the point that the bosses were not cutting back as far as they were concerned


----------



## TarfHead (13 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> methinks you have a beef with the ,as you say, Sindo


 
Busted 
To honest, I prefer Andrex to anything from Independent '_news_'papers.

Also, Shane Ross having a beef with the banks is not '_news_'. He has had a chip on his shoulder, or some such other anatomical complaint, about the banks for years.


----------



## z107 (13 Nov 2009)

> €100 a head for dinner and drinks, not bad really... you'd hardly get a starter in Patrick Guilbaud's for that (the only place on the island with two Michelin stars).


You can now - maybe it's the recession:

Starters range from €40-€44.
Main courses about €50-60.

I'd be cautious about it myself. I wonder how much snob-premium is on these prices? (I've had gorgeous food in crap looking restaurants, and mediocre food in expensive places.)


----------



## fobs (13 Nov 2009)

Our company were reluctant at first to have a chrismas party this year but are going ahead as they can afford it and it will be a boost to a local hotel and will be a thanks to staff who worked hard during the year and had their annual payrise deferred for at least a year. I feel it is appropriate for the banks not to have a large party but companies who can afford it should still try to spend locally and boost staff morale!


----------



## Padraigb (13 Nov 2009)

Purple said:


> ... I can put a starter of crab meat and smoked salmon together for about €3.50 per plate from stuff I can get in Lidl. ...



Your portions are too small!


----------



## dodo (14 Nov 2009)

DerKaiser said:


> http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-and-boi-cancel-christmas-staff-parties-1937641.html
> 
> I have to say that this is something I don't really understand.
> 
> ...


I think the 1K as you said they got is enough of a Xmas present don't you think
You are saying that you would prefer a night out where 40E is spent on you than getting 1K, you must be loaded


----------



## Purple (14 Nov 2009)

liaconn said:


> A lot of us have a beef with the Sindo.


 I don't like the Indo because it's cravenly west-brit.



levelpar said:


> If you took time to read properly what was written, you would realise that the bash was for the bosses NOT the employees


 The "bosses" are employees of the bank.



umop3p!sdn said:


> You can now - maybe it's the recession:
> 
> Starters range from €40-€44.
> Main courses about €50-60.


 Jasus, what value!  I was there twice (wasn't paying) and it was fantastic but I don't think I'd feel incomplete if I was never there again.



Padraigb said:


> Your portions are too small!


 Last time I invite you around for dinner


----------



## liaconn (14 Nov 2009)

Purple said:


> I don't like the Indo because it's cravenly west-brit.


 
Well, next to not telling the truth, not checking their facts, not reporting in a balanced way, trying to make celebrities out of pointless nobodies...........
I wish being west-brit was the worst of their crimes. (I'm talking about the Sindo by the way).


----------



## levelpar (14 Nov 2009)

> I don't like the Indo because it's cravenly west-brit


 
Why is west-brit craven ?.  Also, what's wrong with being west-brit?


----------



## mathepac (14 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> Why is west-brit craven ?. ...


e.g. Dr. Sir Wing-commander Professor Rear-admiral His Holiness Brigadier AJF O'Reilly, Esq.


levelpar said:


> ...   Also, what's wrong with being west-brit?


ditto


----------



## DerKaiser (14 Nov 2009)

dodo said:


> I think the 1K as you said they got is enough of a Xmas present don't you think
> You are saying that you would prefer a night out where 40E is spent on you than getting 1K, you must be loaded



I think treating staff to a Christmas party at least shows a bit of respect for them, whereas a grudgingly paid increase forced upon you by a labour court doesn't exactly give the impression of employees being appreciated.


----------



## mathepac (14 Nov 2009)

DerKaiser said:


> ... Most employees recognise that wage costs, etc need to be contained. ...


I don't think so and thanks to the appalling examples of greed and selfishness set by their political, organizational and union masters all they want is their slice of the imaginary cake, paid for by me.


DerKaiser said:


> ... Cancelling a christmas party is something that saves very little money and has a huge negative impact on staff morale...


A simple rule of thumb in budgeting is that the first items of expenditure to be stopped, not reduced, are those things that come under the heading of "Discretionary Spend" like Christmas parties.

I support the cancellation as I won't now have to pay for them lorrying food and drink down their necks instead of doing the jobs they failed to do for the last few years.


----------



## DerKaiser (14 Nov 2009)

mathepac said:


> I support the cancellation as I won't now have to pay for them lorrying food and drink down their necks instead of doing the jobs they failed to do for the last few years.



This is the kind of OTT reaction that will drive everyone to misery.  

You start with public sector, extend to the banks and soon it sets a precedent for everyone.  

You can control your costs through wages, it's the discretionary items like Christmas parties that have a real impact on staff morale.  I certainly don't want to live in a world where workers are treated as nothing more than parasites and should have no appreciation shown to them   

By using phrases like "lorrying food and drink down their necks" you are being very insincere, you are trying to make some food and a few drinks sound sinister.  We all eat and drink on a regular basis, it's not evil!!

And what do you mean "instead of doing their jobs"?  I'm sure 1,000s of bank employees did their jobs perfectly.  You get served when you go into a bank branch don't you?  Internet banking seems to work quite well to me.  My ATM works every time I use it.  This indicates to me that most people are doing their jobs


----------



## levelpar (14 Nov 2009)

*Re: AIB and BoI cancel Christmas staff parties*
Originally Posted by *levelpar* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=959933#post959933 
_Why is west-brit craven ?. ..._



> e.g. Dr. Sir Wing-commander Professor Rear-admiral His Holiness Brigadier AJF O'Reilly, Esq.


I don't know why you link this man's name to the word craven and I don't know why you should think the man is a west-brit considering he has been a international business player.


----------



## huskerdu (14 Nov 2009)

DerKaiser said:


> This is the kind of OTT reaction that will drive everyone to misery.
> 
> You start with public sector, extend to the banks and soon it sets a precedent for everyone.
> 
> ...



Well put. There has been deep corruption at the  heart of Irish banking for many years, and we will all be paying for it for a long time, but a lot of lower paid bank staff, with no say in company policy, did their jobs, the country currently hates every last one of them, and we are begrudging them a night out with their colleagues. 

I am not surprised that BOI/AIB feel than spending 40 quid per employee on a night out will be used by the media as evidence of more corruption, so the staff will have to just suck it up.


----------



## z107 (14 Nov 2009)

> There has been deep corruption at the heart of Irish banking for many years, and we will all be paying for it for a long time, but a lot of lower paid bank staff, with no say in company policy, did their jobs, the country currently hates every last one of them,


I hate the fact that I'm forced to pay failed Irish banks part of my income.

These failed companies should have been allowed to collapse. If they had, we may now have had new banks. I would rather a year of riots and bankruptcies, than this long drawn out death. Even after NAMA, we'll still have to give this failed companies skip loads of money. These companies are dragging the country down, and they'll continue to squeeze the life out of the economy for years to come.

I would rather not have to pay for their Christmas jollies as well.


----------



## Purple (15 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> Why is west-brit craven ?.  Also, what's wrong with being west-brit?


 Dr Sir Anthony JF O'Reilly was looking for a knighthood for years. He now has one and is looking for a peerage. It is my opinion that in this his vanity has made him very craven. 

His newspaper uses English newspapers that are anti-Irish as a source for its international news and he employs anti-Irish columnists like Ruth Dudley-Edwards to write offensive vitriol and is happy for them to pass off revisionist nonsense as historically accurate.


----------



## levelpar (15 Nov 2009)

> Dr Sir Anthony JF O'Reilly was looking for a knighthood for years. He now has one and is looking for a peerage. It is my opinion that in this his vanity has made him very craven.


 
Sorry, I thought craven meant cowardly.  Guess we were not on the same page.


----------



## Kine (16 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> These failed companies should have been allowed to collapse.


 
I laugh everytime I hear this said. Next thing you'll be telling us we should all save with the Credit Union.


----------



## z107 (17 Nov 2009)

> I laugh everytime I hear this said. Next thing you'll be telling us we should all save with the Credit Union.


I don't understand your point.
If the government let the banks collapse, I would imagine new banks would take their place. Doesn't this happen in America, for example, where banks are collapsing the whole time?

We have this awful situation where the banks are collapsing anyway, even with NAMA, and they are dragging everyone else down with them, courtesy of the government.


----------



## Purple (17 Nov 2009)

levelpar said:


> Sorry, I thought craven meant cowardly.  Guess we were not on the same page.


 Craven in the sense that he does not do what he should as an Irishman and someone in a position of power to make sure that the truth is told. Instead he uses his newspapers as a vehicle to further his own pro-British agenda in a sycophantic and spineless way.


----------



## TarfHead (17 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Doesn't this happen in America, for example, where banks are collapsing the whole time?


 
National banks, with retail branches ?

Name 3 ?

Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges


----------



## z107 (17 Nov 2009)

Just three? How about this list of failed American banks:
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

There were three on the 13 Nov 2009 alone. Just checked one of these,  Orion bank had 23 branches located through Florida.


----------



## TarfHead (17 Nov 2009)

TarfHead said:


> National banks, with retail branches ?


 


umop3p!sdn said:


> Orion bank had 23 branches located through Florida.


 
Ah, the great nation of Florida  !


----------



## z107 (17 Nov 2009)

> Ah, the great nation of Florida  !


What are you trying to compare?

Florida has a population of over 18 million.
Is it not reasonable to compare Ireland to just one US state? Ireland is tiny.

How about these three? - Would this be the scale you're looking for?

Lehman Brothers:$639,063,000,800 assets pre-bankruptcy (How many AIBs and BoIs it that?)
Washington Mutual (aka WaMu):$327,913,000,000 assets pre-bankruptcy
CIT Group:  $71,019,200,000 assets pre-bankruptcy


----------



## TarfHead (17 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> What are you trying to compare?


 
The US banking market is different to Ireland in that few, if any of them, have a national significance in the same way that AIB or BoI would to Ireland.

A regional bank failure would not have the same national impact in the US as AIB or BoI in Ireland.

And it is not the volume of USD involved, rather a bank (let alone 3) that has been allowed to fail that has retail branches in the 50 states, or even Lower 48.

So, citing the example of regional or investment banks in th US that have been allowed to fail, does not, IMHO, hold as a rationale for allowing AIB or BoI fail in Ireland.


----------



## z107 (17 Nov 2009)

Tarfhead, I don't really know what example of a failed American bank you are looking for. I've given you a list of failed banks, including regional banks that could be compared to AIB and BoI. You weren't happy with this, so I provided three examples of huge American banks that collapsed. So what are you looking for?

Is it financial impact? The impact of the Lehman failure is huge, and global. Banks with retail branches? WaMu had 2,239 retail branch offices across America. Both of these had enormous national significance.

The reason I suggested that maybe AIB and BoI should have been allowed to fail, isn't because I enjoy riots and bankruptcies etc, it's because they _may fail anyway, even with the bailouts and NAMA_. In the process, they are dragging the rest of the country down with them. We need new banks.


----------



## levelpar (18 Nov 2009)

> Craven in the sense that he does not do what he should as an Irishman and someone in a position of power to make sure that the truth is told. Instead he uses his newspapers as a vehicle to further his own pro-British agenda in a sycophantic and spineless way.


 
I take it that you don't have Heinz baked beans in your cupboard


----------



## terrontress (18 Nov 2009)

If the Irish retail banks had been allowed to collapse, there would have been bedlam. Everyone's savings and current accounts wiped out, no means to get paid at the end of the month. Nothing other than the change in your pocket to pay for your groceries. Civilisation as we know it would have come to an end. People would have had little options but to storm and loot food shops. We would have had retailers on the rooves of service stations scaring people off with their guns. . Never mind the fact we would have had all the bank employees and the companies which support the banks dumping all their staff on the dole queues. There would have been a massive flow of refugees over the border to the North which would set up camps which would become overwhelmed. That is not too gross an exaggeration.

The "new banks" would have been large EU banks who would have offered retail banking facilities but it would have taken time for them to be set up. These banks would be managed from Germany, Austria, France or somewhere else. To see how it would operate, read up on how the likes of Erste Bank moved into Czech Rep, Hungary, Serbia etc. following the liberalisation of Eastern markets.

The ATM and payment card networks would have gone under as they are owned by the members, i.e. the big Irish banks.


----------



## terrontress (18 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> What are you trying to compare?
> 
> Florida has a population of over 18 million.
> Is it not reasonable to compare Ireland to just one US state? Ireland is tiny.
> ...


 How many people used Lehmans for their daily banking?


> Washington Mutual (aka WaMu):$327,913,000,000 assets pre-bankruptcy


 Daily banking was sold off to Chase. Also, AIB and Bank Of Ireland together command 80% of the market. WaMu did not have such dominance.


> CIT Group: $71,019,200,000 assets pre-bankruptcy


 I went for a job with them in their office in Blackrock. For a start they're not bankrupt and secondly, they seem only to offer finance for airlines to buy aircraft and for consumers to buy Dell computers.

None of your examples are relevant.


----------



## z107 (18 Nov 2009)

> None of your examples are relevant.


You forgot the list I originally posted:
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html



> If the Irish retail banks had been allowed to collapse, there would have been bedlam. Everyone's savings and current accounts wiped out, no means to get paid at the end of the month. Nothing other than the change in your pocket to pay for your groceries. Civilisation as we know it would have come to an end. People would have had little options but to storm and loot food shops. We would have had retailers on the rooves of service stations scaring people off with their guns. . Never mind the fact we would have had all the bank employees and the companies which support the banks dumping all their staff on the dole queues. There would have been a massive flow of refugees over the border to the North which would set up camps which would become overwhelmed. That is not too gross an exaggeration.


I know all this stuff. I don't disagree with any of it.

All this stuff could still happen anyway, that's my point.


A market that's dominated 80% by two players is a terrible situation to be in. This needs (needed) to be urgently addressed. Look where it's got us now.


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> All this stuff could still happen anyway, that's my point.


 
The only way that AIB and BOI can now fail is if Ireland defaults. Not saying it can't or won't happen but the chances of it very very slim.


----------



## z107 (18 Nov 2009)

> The only way that AIB and BOI can now fail is if Ireland defaults. Not saying it can't or won't happen but the chances of it very very slim.


Right now, I'd give it 50-50.


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Right now, I'd give it 50-50.


 
Not a chance.


----------



## z107 (18 Nov 2009)

Why are the share prices so low?
They have 80% dominance, and no chance (apparently) of failure. Seems like a no-brainer.


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Why are the share prices so low?
> They have 80% dominance, and no chance (apparently) of failure. Seems like a no-brainer.


 
Because shareholders fear Nationalisation, not default.


----------



## z107 (18 Nov 2009)

First, I would regard bank nationalisation a kin to bank failure. 
Secondly, if we are in a position where the banks are nationalised, it doesn't bode well for the country as a whole. Remember our bank guarantee as well. Under these circumstances, I wouldn't say the odds of Ireland defaulting were 'not a chance'.


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> First, I would regard bank nationalisation a kin to bank failure.
> Secondly, if we are in a position where the banks are nationalised, it doesn't bode well for the country as a whole. Remember our bank guarantee as well. Under these circumstances, I wouldn't say the odds of Ireland defaulting were 'not a chance'.


 
Nationalisation wouldn't lead to the complete break down of financial services that you were implying could happen in earlier posts.
Of course it doesn't bode well if the banks are nationalised but it doesn't automatically mean that Ireland would default.
I said not a chance to your assertion that there was a 50/50 chance of Ireland defaulting.


----------

