# Am i better off on Welfare?



## mel26 (30 Jun 2011)

Myself and my partner earn €390pw each. We have 1 child Thats €3120 between is pm. We pay €1200pm mortgage. €800pm Childcare. €300pm Credit Union. That leaves is with €820pm between us. Then there is the gas, esb, petrol. We are left with pittins. We even qualified for a medical card due to our low incomes. Its depressing being broke all the time. 

A person i know on the other hand lives at home with her parents. She gets the opfp which is €90pw and she works full time earning €420pw. That brings her to €510pw Her childcare costs are €30 pw in the local Government run Crech.  Needless to say she can afford a great lifestyle. newish car, holidays, nice clothes, while i struggle to pay for food, nappies ect,  

My question is, is it right that i have to pay tax that goes to people who are more well of than me?


----------



## PetPal (30 Jun 2011)

It doesn't sound fair at all.  Just one thing ..... if you are entitled to the medical card because of low income, are you not entitled to use the local Govt creche that the other person uses?  That would take a huge burden off your shoulders.  Just wondering.


----------



## Guest105 (30 Jun 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Myself and my partner earn €390pw each. We have 1 child Thats €3120 between is pm. We pay €1200pm mortgage. €800pm Childcare. €300pm Credit Union. That leaves is with €820pm between us. Then there is the gas, esb, petrol. We are left with pittins. We even qualified for a medical card due to our low incomes. Its depressing being broke all the time.
> 
> A person i know on the other hand lives at home with her parents. She gets the opfp which is €90pw and she works full time earning €420pw. That brings her to €510pw Her childcare costs are €30 pw in the local Government run Crech. Needless to say she can afford a great lifestyle. newish car, holidays, nice clothes, while i struggle to pay for food, nappies ect,
> 
> My question is, is it right that i have to pay tax that goes to people who are more well of than me?


 
Rubyanne - I honestly can't see how your friend is receiving €90 per week on One parent Family Allowance while she is able to earn €420 per week and if is the case I think the system is wrong.

That aside you and your partner are earning average wages, it's the amount of debt you have that is tying you down.  I would suggeast you post in the money make over section so others here can advise you how you to make better use of your resources.


----------



## Ildánach (1 Jul 2011)

One Parent Family Payment is there to support one-parent families who  have particular difficulties in securing regular full-time employment.   The disregards that are in place are to ensure that people on the  payment are better off working than drawing only a social welfare.

Remember that one parent families only have one income coming in too, so  a two parent family with both parents working is going to be bringing  in much more income than someone on OPFP.  The OP's post shows this is  easily the case, as the OP brings in nearly 800 Euro a week, while a  person getting the most out of the OPFP scheme is bringing in only 510 a  week (and this example is certainly not typical of most OPFP  recipients).

All the expenses listed, the lone parent may also have.

As for childcare the government schemes in respect of cheap child care  are available to people regardless of income, so the OP could avail of  this too.


----------



## mel26 (1 Jul 2011)

Thanks for your replies guys. 

Petpal- No its not fair. As regards these govt creches there are long waiting lists and they only do half days and i work full time. 

Cashier- I could not believe she was still receiving SW while working full time aswell but there is no doubt, she is, and legitimately, Our debts that are tying us down are the Mortgage and Childcare mainly so there is noting i can change with those at the moment. 

Ildanach- It doesn't take a genius to figure out who is financially better off. The lone parent has none of the expenses i listed, No mortgage, or high childcare costs. She also has the privilage of the one parent tax credit which means she pays very little tax. While we do have 2 incomes, we are not bringing in that much more than the lone parent, €270 more per week.. I think this example is more common than you think. Another common one is, single parent working 19 hours claimg fis, opfp and rent allowence. I know loads of people doing that who are also ALL better off than me. Why are they the ones who can go on holidays every year and go out on a Sat night while i cant afford to.   

To be honest i rue the day i ever got that mortgage, No wonder people go on welfare, Im starting to think, if you can't beat them join them.


----------



## PetPal (1 Jul 2011)

To be fair I can see Rubyanne's point and where she's coming from.  Underlying all of what she is saying is the doubtless fact that there are people all around us, on "the social", and apparently better off than some of us in full time employment.  In the "good old days", before any credit crunch, before any celtic tiger, it was the same.  I remember saving and saving for years on end to have enough for a deposit on a house (trying to stand on my own two feet and not sponge off the state).  A friend next door, of similar age and educational background, just didn't bother bettering herself (ie worked as a shop assistant) and, because of her "low" income, she and her boyfriend got a council house.  Then, when they had a few kids, there came a time (don't ask me what year it was, I can't remember) when the council actually offered her money if she would hand the house back and get herself a cheap private house (presumably the council needed her house for others).  The money they gave her became her deposit on the private house, and off she went on the property ladder, not having ever really made any great effort of her own.  After a short while, she sold the private house and emigrated, with a nice little profit in her pocket.  I'm not saying that this friend is a millionaire, or that she's SO much better off than the rest of us, but I'm just saying that she was almost encouraged NOT to try to better herself.  She was rewarded for being on a "low" wage and for having children basically.  Things haven't really changed much.  Rubyanne - I can see how annoying it is for you.


----------



## dereko1969 (1 Jul 2011)

Before tying oneself into knots about fairness the fact is that the OP is paying a mortgage whereas the person she is comparing herself to is living at home with parents and paying minimal rent, it's not comparing like with like.


----------



## Mpsox (1 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> To be honest i rue the day i ever got that mortgage, No wonder people go on welfare, Im starting to think, if you can't beat them join them.


 
The problem for you is that you and your partner are not living with your/her parents like the single mother is. It's got nothing to do with welfare. If you hadn't a mortgage or weren't paying rent and were living with your parents, you would be in a similer financial position as the single mother.


----------



## PetPal (1 Jul 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Before tying oneself into knots about fairness the fact is that the OP is paying a mortgage whereas the person she is comparing herself to is living at home with parents and paying minimal rent, it's not comparing like with like.


 
I wasn't tying myself into knots .... more trying to broaden the discussion a bit ... but there you go!   Anyway Rubyanne, I sympathise.


----------



## giles (1 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Thanks for your replies guys.
> 
> Petpal- No its not fair. As regards these govt creches there are long waiting lists and they only do half days and i work full time.
> 
> ...


 
Rubyanne I'm sorry your finding it hard right now but nobody forced you to get a mortgage and nobody is forcing you to pay such high creche fees. The truth is with your low income you would be entitled to a council house and a place in the government run creche _(fyi they do do full days)._ Yes the waiting lists are long for both of these things but everybody has to que up, nobody gets special treatment. It was your choice not to wait for these entitlements.


Until very recently I was living on social welfare (due to redundancy). I have a partner and 2 kids and I can tell you first hand we most definitely were not living it up. Your sweeping statement that everyone on social welfare is out every Sat nite on going on foreign holidays every year is frankly offensive!! My family struggled to get by on social welfare and the money worries nearly broke us up. 

How do you know these lone parents are better off than you? Did they sit you down and show you all their bills and bank statements?! I don't think so. Money worries are a very private thing. People struggleing to get by rarely shout it from the roof tops. People like to keep up appearances. 


You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about single mothers.. but you made your choices in life.


----------



## carriedaway (1 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Myself and my partner earn €390pw each. We have 1 child Thats €3120 between is pm. We pay *€1200pm mortgage. €800pm Childcare. €300pm Credit Union*.


Thats your problem right there, nothing to do with the welfare system, why on earth did ye take on so much debt on such low wages? Have you tried going to MABS or somebody with a good knowledge of personal finance and talking through your problem. Not trying to be patronizing btw, sorry to hear you are struggling, but those outgoings are insane when you consider your wages. I do agree the welfare system almost encourages people not to bother trying to better themselves but to be honest I wouldn't bother with that now, you have bigger problems. You could also try reducing your mortgage payments temporarily until your situation improves? There must be some way you can get your outgoings down, there is more to life than owning a house, anyway hope it works out for ya, it must be really tough going, my wife doesn't work any more but when we both worked and had a young child it really tested our relationship and almost finished us, best of luck with it.


----------



## Complainer (2 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Thanks for your replies guys.
> 
> Petpal- No its not fair. As regards these govt creches there are long waiting lists and they only do half days and i work full time.


So who minds the other person's child for the other half of the day?


----------



## mel26 (2 Jul 2011)

Look, i am simply pointing out that in some cases, NOT ALL, that a person and especially a single parent could possibly be financially better off on welfare. I do not have ' a chip on my shoulder about single mothers'. I simply happen to have a lot of friends who are single parents who tell me all the time that im crazy for carrying on the way i do, struggling. A friend suggested to me that if my partner moved back to his family home (which he is willing to do), i could cut my hours back to 19hrs pw, claim opfp and fis, and maybe even mortgage interest supplement. I am really considering it untill we get back on our feet. The alternative is to carry on as we are miserable and arguing and depressed about being broke which will probably finish us off if we carry on anyway.
When we got the mortgage my partner had a well paid job but he was made redundant 2 yrs ago. Btw id nearly be sure a person with a mortgage cannot apply for council housing.
Complainer- Her parents mind the child after creche. My parents aren't here anymore and my partners parents are too old. 

I agree that i am not comparing like with like but the bottom line is in my own personal situation the welfare route is looking very appealing. 

I'll leave it there. thanks for all your replies and i genuinely didnt mean to offend anyone.


----------



## Ildánach (4 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Thanks for your replies guys.
> 
> Petpal- No its not fair. As regards these govt creches there are long waiting lists and they only do half days and i work full time.
> 
> ...



How do you know a lone parent doesn't have a mortgage?  Yeah, they'll get an extra tax credit, but again THEY ONLY HAVE ONE INCOME.  Financially they are WORSE off than a two income family.  Its that simple.  They are compensated slightly so that they are not twice as bad off as a two-income family, but that's the whole point.  You need a two income family to have any chance of having a decent income in this climate.

Working 19 hours, getting FIS and OPFP would mean you would lose most, if not all, of your rent supplement.  As a lone parent, working 19 hours, plus having to raise a child yourself, I think they're entitled to a decent income, maybe not so much money that they're able to send their kids to an 800 Euro a month creche though


----------



## Ildánach (4 Jul 2011)

Rubyanne29 said:


> Look, i am simply pointing out that in some  cases, NOT ALL, that a person and especially a single parent could  possibly be financially better off on welfare. I do not have ' a chip on  my shoulder about single mothers'. I simply happen to have a lot of  friends who are single parents who tell me all the time that im crazy  for carrying on the way i do, struggling. A friend suggested to me that  if my partner moved back to his family home (which he is willing to do),  i could cut my hours back to 19hrs pw, claim opfp and fis, and maybe  even mortgage interest supplement. I am really considering it untill we  get back on our feet. The alternative is to carry on as we are miserable  and arguing and depressed about being broke which will probably finish  us off if we carry on anyway.
> When we got the mortgage my partner had a well paid job but he was made  redundant 2 yrs ago. Btw id nearly be sure a person with a mortgage  cannot apply for council housing.
> Complainer- Her parents mind the child after creche. My parents aren't  here anymore and my partners parents are too old.
> 
> ...




I can understand your frustration, but you need to look at the real  causes of your situation.  It is not lone parents.  You and your partner  are working two jobs and still struggling, and yet still the agenda  being pushed by the government is that wages need to come DOWN!!!!

Wages coming down will just cause more poverty traps, and lead more  people into being dependent on welfare.

Seriously as a practical step for your own circumstances, talk to MABS  to get advice about how to reduce your debt, and look into one of the  government provided creche places http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...arly_childhood_care_and_education_scheme.html   Just think what you could do for your child with that extra 800 Euro a  month!!!!

As for your partner moving out, this would not generate more income.   Yeah you could reduce your hours and claim an increased FIS payment  along with OPFP.  You would only be compensating yourself (if even that)  for the loss of your income from employment, and the loss of your  partner's income.  You might get some help  with mortgage interest supplement, but this would be reduced because of  your earnings and FIS, as well as with any maintenance you would receive  from  your partner.  There is no easy way out of your situation simply by  going through the welfare route.  That route is tougher than you make  out!!! 

Its easy to see why more and more relationships are breaking down  because of finances!!!!  Perhaps you could do with some help on this  front, from counselling organisation or other form of relationship  support.  I wish you all the best!http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...arly_childhood_care_and_education_scheme.html


----------



## Complainer (4 Jul 2011)

This story might give some insight into the cushy life of single parents in our generous welfare system;

[broken link removed]


----------



## Guest105 (4 Jul 2011)

That story is very disturbing but you are not comparing like with like, the single parent the OP is refering to is earning double what the unemployed single mum in the article is receiving. It is very tough on her having to go to the middle east to seek work with young kids in tow.


----------



## sammi (4 Jul 2011)

Threads like this really wind me up. Im sick of people bashing single mothers and their "cushy" life on social welfare. Most of these people have never had to raise kids on social welfare so don't have a clue what there talking about. 


As the woman in complainer's link tries to explain - you can get by for a while but the longer your on social welfare the harder it gets, the more it grinds you down... I know everybody has money worries these days, but if your lucky enough to have a job and a partner who also has a job count your blessings. Things might be tight but they could be worse.


----------



## sammi (4 Jul 2011)

On a more practical note..... Rubyanne29 have you thought about giving up work? Your husband could claim FIS and your tax credits. Plus you'd save 800 per month on child care. I know alot of women who don't work purely because the family is financially better off with one parent at home... might be worth looking into.


----------



## Alwyn (30 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> This story might give some insight into the cushy life of single parents in our generous welfare system;
> 
> [broken link removed]


 
Disturbing article and more disturbing the SVP's attitude to the lady.


----------



## ellie001 (6 Sep 2011)

I think the same sometimes 

I am 25 have a four year old son have always worked full time and I don't get zilch all mI want is a proper roof over our heads iinstead of having to live with my parents and yet if I give up work I would get that. This country is totally backwards in the grand scheme of things!


----------



## missthrifty (28 Oct 2011)

Thank you for that link.  Puts my problem in perspective and made me question why we become so enslaved to our debts and threats and realise that today is all that really matters until tomorrow comes.


----------



## STEINER (29 Oct 2011)

Boomtobust said:


> Disturbing article and more disturbing the SVP's attitude to the lady.


 
it is disturbing and shocking certainly but I really don't understand why the woman is struggling to put food on the table with an income of 250pw.

regarding the original post, yes it is frustrating working and paying the bills and just about breaking even each month.  the mortgage and childcare costs are obviously a major drain on finances.  when the 300 going to the credit union loan? ceases then that will ease things considerably. if both were on social welfare the mortgage would still be there, mortgage interest supplement would only pay some of the interest portion maybe 200-300 a month. stay working and implement a home budget.


----------



## bluebell_ (1 Feb 2012)

I read it and cant do not respond.
I am single parent with 2 children, and smaller baby has down syndrome. From state im getting rent allowance and opp, what is 240/w. 
But what i wanted to say-is not money. It is take responsibilities being alone. I cant get sick and i cant afford great lifestyle. My little one has hearth surgery straight after delivery  - and i had to run between hospital and home-baby in hospital, bigger daughter at school and not big enough to be left alone. And nobody to help. Since September i did not slept one night well. Being sick with flu and fever i had to wake up several times at night feed baby. I had to attend all appointments; do all paperwork, running from employer to gp, from gp somewhere else and fill it up all forms.  You know-i would wish do not be alone and have some rest... 
So never tell, that other person shoes looks better before you tried them..    





Rubyanne29 said:


> Myself and my partner earn €390pw each. We have 1 child Thats €3120 between is pm. We pay €1200pm mortgage. €800pm Childcare. €300pm Credit Union. That leaves is with €820pm between us. Then there is the gas, esb, petrol. We are left with pittins. We even qualified for a medical card due to our low incomes. Its depressing being broke all the time.
> 
> A person i know on the other hand lives at home with her parents. She gets the opfp which is €90pw and she works full time earning €420pw. That brings her to €510pw Her childcare costs are €30 pw in the local Government run Crech.  Needless to say she can afford a great lifestyle. newish car, holidays, nice clothes, while i struggle to pay for food, nappies ect,
> 
> My question is, is it right that i have to pay tax that goes to people who are more well of than me?


----------

