# Car service rip off



## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

I recently left my car into a local garage to be serviced.  my car is a 95 nissan micra.  the usual bits were done to it - wiper blades, oil, air etc.  The only extra was a second hand air flow meter.  I am shocked at the price of the bill.  Wait for it......€405.  Any comments.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

What sort of quote/estimate did they give you up front and how did it differ from the ultimate price charged? Did you shop around?


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## CCOVICH (21 Feb 2007)

Margie said:
			
		

> The only extra was a second hand air flow meter


 
What did this part cost and what was the fitting cost?


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## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

I didn't look for an estimate.  i was told that an average car service costs about €150.

I was charged €100 for the second hand air flow meter.  You can buy them on the internet for about €25.  Because they didn't fit this on the first visit i had to bring the car back - they charged me €90 twice for labour excl. VAT. 

 it takes about 120 seconds to install the air flow meter.

i would advice anyone who is not car wise like myself to definately get an estimate first.

The worst thing about this situation is that the mechanic is a neighbour of mine.  how awkward for me when i go and query it so i think i will leave that to my husband who is not at all impressed with the way they have ripped me off.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

Margie said:


> I didn't look for an estimate.  i was told that an average car service costs about €150.


Told by this service provider or somebody else? An average doesn't really mean much since it can hide minimum and maximum charges.


> I was charged €100 for the second hand air flow meter.  You can buy them on the internet for about €25.


 Why didn't you buy one on the internet so?


> Because they didn't fit this on the first visit i had to bring the car back - they charged me €90 twice for labour excl. VAT.


 Did you query/challenge the charges and haggle?


> it takes about 120 seconds to install the air flow meter.


 Did you point this out to them?


> i would advice anyone who is not car wise like myself to definately get an estimate first.


 I totally agree. Not getting an estimate and then crying rip-off doesn't really add up to me personally.


> The worst thing about this situation is that the mechanic is a neighbour of mine.  how awkward for me when i go and query it so i think i will leave that to my husband who is not at all impressed with the way they have ripped me off.


 Why is it awkward just because it's a neighbour? Especially since you believe that you were "ripped off".


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## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

Clubman, I don't think you need to be quite so blunt.  I only started driving during the Summer.  i got myself a little Micra, i won't drive my husband's car because it is brand new and too big.

I don't know anything about cars.  I went along to this mechanic whom I know all my life.  I explained to him that if the car needed a couple of hundred euros put into it, not to go ahead as I would rather invest that money in a newer car.

When I got the bill i though it was a bit steep so then I made a few inquiries about prices of second hand parts etc. and how long it takes to install the part I got.

I am not 'crying rip off'.  it is a fact that I was ripped off.  For anyone else out there who is going for a service, don't trust mechanics who are firends or neighbours and get a man to go along with you if you are female and don't know much about cars.


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## CCOVICH (21 Feb 2007)

Margie said:


> Because they didn't fit this on the first visit i had to bring the car back - they charged me €90 twice for labour excl. VAT.


 

So the total labour cost is €90 + 21% x 2= €217.80
Air flow meter €100 (incl VAT?)
Other parts €87.20

Total €405

Is that the breakdown?

Is €90 a minimum labour charge, i.e. they don't have a 'part of hour charge'?

Leaving aside the air flow meter and cost of fitting, the basic service looks likle it cost €196-a little on the expensive side, but it depends on where you are based etc.  Not outrageous IMHO.

I would have thought that if fitting the air flow meter was a quick job and you had just been in for a service and had purchased the meter from them, in the interests of customer goodwill they would have fitted same without charge.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

Margie said:


> Clubman, I don't think you need to be quite so blunt.


Just giving my opinion. If you don't want it then you can ignore it but posting on a public discussion forum is bound to attract comment that may challenge your views.


> I explained to him that if the car needed a couple of hundred euros put into it, not to go ahead as I would rather invest that money in a newer car.


Did you explicitly agree to this (what specific amount) up front but they went ahead and did work to the cost of €400 anyway? Surely that's grounds for complaint to them?


> When I got the bill i though it was a bit steep so then I made a few inquiries about prices of second hand parts etc. and how long it takes to install the part I got.


Would you have been able to fit the parts yourself? If not then the retail/wholesale/online price of them is arguably not of great relevance.


> I am not 'crying rip off'.  it is a fact that I was ripped off.


How?


> For anyone else out there who is going for a service, don't trust mechanics who are firends or neighbours and get a man to go along with you if you are female and don't know much about cars.


Or to put it another way - shop around for the best price/service combination *before *you decide who to give the work to.


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## Miles (21 Feb 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Just giving my opinion. If you don't want it then you can ignore it but posting on a public discussion forum is bound to attract comment that may challenge your views.
> 
> Did you explicitly agree to this (what specific amount) up front but they went ahead and did work to the cost of €400 anyway? Surely that's grounds for complaint to them?
> 
> ...


 
Tearing her post apart down to the last molecule is hardly constructive Clubman!


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

I am *replying *to each point. Let's not have this boring discussion about posting style yet again. At least not as an  tangent to this thread. Your own post hardly adds anything constructive to the discussion either...


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## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

ccovich, thank you for your comment.

i only joined this discussion forum for the first time yesterday.  this is all quite new to me but i find that some good advice is offered. 

The advice that i am now offering is F.A.O. all people going for a car service to get an estimate.

my husband is querying the bill with the mechanic hopefully this evening, i will come back tomorrow to let you know the turn out.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

Margie said:


> my husband is querying the bill with the mechanic hopefully this evening, i will come back tomorrow to let you know the turn out.


Is it paid in full yet?


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## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

no, we havn't paid it yet.  i'm prepared to pay for the service parts and labour and a reduced cost of the air flow meter but i'm not prepared to pay for labour twice.  this should cut the bill by about €150


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

Fair enough. At least you can still haggle if the bill is not paid. You should not be afraid to do this regardless of the person being a neighbour.


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## Mr2 (21 Feb 2007)

Margie, I understand what your saying and agree with you. 

We get a lot of these nice genuine people that come into us (Main Dealer)
with stories of how the neighbour was over priced or how they made a mess of a job. Last week we had a lady that got a friend to replace a glow plug in her car, made a mess of it and she ended up paying us €6,523 to fix problem. 

She asked us how much it would have cost for us to replace a glow plug,
€95.00, her friend charged her €80.00 and had left a light on the dash. Then he told her she would have to go to a main dealer to get the light knocked out (cost around €25.00) only the car didn't drive.

Ring around and do price a main dealer.


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## bacchus (21 Feb 2007)

Mr2 said:


> . Last week we had a lady that got a friend to replace a glow plug in her car, made a mess of it and she ended up paying us €6,523 to fix problem.


 
Are you serious, €6523 ??


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## DrMoriarty (21 Feb 2007)

Car mechanics, unfortunately, _have_ something of a [broken link removed] for chancing their arm when dealing with 'lady customers'.  

I'd suggest you ask him for a detailed receipt eek:...?) and indicate that your husband _was_ going to bring his new car to him for servicing once the main dealer's warranty expired, but is now looking elsewhere.


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## Mr2 (21 Feb 2007)

I'd dis-agree with that, In the main dealers I've worked, if anything you would under charge women.

But when it comes to smart A** men who think they know everything we charge as much as we can.


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## aircobra19 (21 Feb 2007)

You mean main stealers.. you have to pay for the air in the tyres in there.


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## Martinslan (21 Feb 2007)

Mr2 ...I am shocked to hear that any main dealer is undercharging women customers while getting as much as it can from male customers based on a subjective decision of people working in the main dealers as to who is smart ..... and who is not. Where do they get the time and the attitude for this carry on.. The mind boggles. 

It is this very sort of statment that give the car industry a bad name. 
Why can't the main dealers provide the "best in class" service to ALL its customers, male or female. Why can't they provide value for money in providing this "best in class" service. Why don't they guarentee their work like the car "makers" do for 3 to 5 years. Car makers have made huge strides over the last 20 years to make cars that work all the time, Cars no longer rust,they start, safety and design has improved, all in all they do what the car makers claim. Why has the car service industry not followed the continious improvement path.Spare parts are the "new" profit centre dealers and the car service industry. What is wrong with quality, service and value for each customer from car dealers and from one off "indi" providers alike. Then Customers, female and male,  could drive away from having the car serviced and know that the work paid they just for was fully justified and the car service industry would improve it's name to everyone's advantage.


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## Morgause (21 Feb 2007)

Shopping around pays dividends when you need your car to be serviced.  I got my car serviced in a garage in Wexford recently for €80.  This included replacing oil and filters and a full service.

VW dealerships wanted to charge twice this for a first (smaller than full) service, parts extra.

A mechanic friend of a friend offered to do it for €80 as a nixer but oil and filters would be extra.

As you see, quite a variation.  I know this doesn't help your current situation Margie, but you know for the next service!


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## Margie (21 Feb 2007)

"As you see, quite a variation. I know this doesn't help your current situation Margie, but you know for the next service!"

Absolutley, a lesson well learned.


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## Threadser (21 Feb 2007)

Morgause said:


> Shopping around pays dividends when you need your car to be serviced.  I got my car serviced in a garage in Wexford recently for €80.  This included replacing oil and filters and a full service.


That sounds like a great deal.  What was the name of the garage in Wexford? Might try them myself next time as am getting very fed up of overpriced servicing.


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## Thrifty1 (21 Feb 2007)

I think what MR2 meant was that women have an irrational fear of being over charged/ made fools of in a garage.

This is unfounded, like he said most garages will "undercharge" women, they are probably treated better than men because garages are conscious of not "ripping them off".

Whereas on the other hand smart alecs who think they know more and make a song and dance are not let away as lightly.

That is not saying that the servicing of the car differs its probably a matter of say charging the smart alec the full amount or knocking a bit off for the "nervous" woman.

Believe me this happens in most industries and you are foolish to think otherwise.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2007)

Off topic posts have been removed.


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## aircobra19 (21 Feb 2007)

Thrifty1 said:


> I think what MR2 meant was that women have an irrational fear of being over charged/ made fools of in a garage.
> 
> This is unfounded, like he said most garages will "undercharge" women, they are probably treated better than men because garages are conscious of not "ripping them off".
> 
> ...




Sorry but I think thats complete fiction, and completely sexist. Not just by these imaginary garages but even the lack of consideration that you can women who are very knowledgeable about cars and men who haven't a clue. To be honest in a main dealer you often come across mechanics, apprentices and service managers who really have no interest in cars, or customer service either. 

My experiences with main dealers which indicated a scary lack of knowledge about cars in many of them. Seemingly they can replace parts, but have no ability to fix them.


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## Guest109 (21 Feb 2007)

i think you were well and truly ripped off here, a 12 year old car,if you were selling it you would hardly get 500 euro for it im sure, see 2 in papers being sold by dealers  96 micra1.0 sunroof radio cd player taxed and mot,85,000  miles for 450 sterling ,350 or less would probably buy it,
a 95 micra same spec asking 500


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## Mr2 (23 Feb 2007)

This is not sexist. I should have been clearer about what I mean there is more that man v's woman. A bill comes to €312.61, A very nice man or woman sits in front of you and chances are you would let them away with the €2.61, where with some one that is a smart A** usually a man 20-35 you would get the whole lot. As happens in restraunts,service industry etc.

A person come in to get a bulb changed(we have a set charge of €10.00 in labour), A smart a** man comes in and demands it to be done straight away and it does get done and he gets charged for bulb and labour however a nice lady or an older man might come and ask to get it done as soon as possible and is happy to sit in the waiting room for a few mins. He or she prob won't get the labour charge.

It's slight hard to explain but it comes down to politeness more than anything, not sexist!. As what happens in the service industries people only see a person behind a counter and not the person and treat them as such. You ask your girlfriend or father etc about how they find some person behind a counter somewhere. You'll usually find they get treated better than you and don't always pay full price for everything.


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## aircobra19 (23 Feb 2007)

I love the way you I assume I have a girlfriend, am not old, or that I get treated differently in some way. Theres so many isims going there on you blew the fuse on my isim detector. 

Simply fact is you should agree a price before hand, haggle hard if possible because prices are obviously not set in stone, and  use as many bargaining skills and tricks to drive down the price. Establishing a rapport would be haggling 101. 

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]


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## Mr2 (23 Feb 2007)

aircobra19 I wasn't directing my previous post soley at you, It was to answer a few posts with a few points.

However if I have insulted you by what you picked up from my previous post, I'm sorry. I didn't want to expose your sexual preference. 

I am only talking in the "General" and as with everything there is exceptions. Maybe your one!


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## Welfarite (23 Feb 2007)

Mr2 said:


> I'd dis-agree with that, In the main dealers I've worked, if anything you would under charge women.



This begs the question as to who makes up the difference and what is the benchmark to deciding prices in such a scenario?


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## Mr2 (23 Feb 2007)

Difference(a few euro)! Were not really worried about that. Sometimes it's just nice to be nice and if somebody possibly bought there car off you and got it serviced, we'll be happy if they come back when there trading in and we get to price the car first.


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## aircobra19 (23 Feb 2007)

Mr2 said:


> aircobra19 I wasn't directing my previous post soley at you, It was to answer a few posts with a few points.
> 
> However if I have insulted you by what you picked up from my previous post, I'm sorry. I didn't want to expose your sexual preference.
> 
> I am only talking in the "General" and as with everything there is exceptions. Maybe your one!



I was speaking as "your" average customer. Because I'm actually an alien and only passing through.  Basically I should send the grandmother down to get the car serviced etc  because she'll get a cheaper price then if we  send the alpha male. 

I don't believe that to be true in the majority of garages, with the obvious exception of yours   Must be an interesting breakdown on the bill though, especially if you compare it with someone else in the family.

Nice and chatty - 2%
Old lady -2%
Happy to wait - 2%
Asked me how I was - 2%

vs

Well dressed +2%
Too busy to chat +2%
In a hurry +2%
Alpha Male +5%

Etc...


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## Mr2 (23 Feb 2007)

That's good I like that but we never add any thing on.

But maybe I'm wrong, I had you down as, Male 20-35, Married, 1 or 2 children but defo not 3, Some what educated, fairly well traveled, bit of an IT buff, and from the post above maybe a smart A**. 

I maybe wrong but I reckon your the man that does pay in full for everything but knows a lot about everything so I'm sure you don't actually need to come to a garage as you can read the book and can fix the car your self.


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## CCOVICH (23 Feb 2007)

_aircobra19 and Mr2_-continue your spat in private please-any further posts along the previous lines will be deleted.

I am only leaving the thread open to allow _Margie_ (the op) to report back on the outcome of any haggling with the machanic.


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## ragazza (23 Feb 2007)

I had a good experience in a garage, which backs-up Mr2's theory.

A while ago my car door wouldnt close and was swinging open. So I drove to the nearest garage, and asked if they could have a look. They spent about 30mins fixing it, and then didnt charge me anything! I couldnt believe it, but was delighted.
I'd recommend the place, but cant remember the name! Its on the Stillorgan Dual carraigeway, near Cherrywood  - maybe its called 'KwitFit'.


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## Mr2 (23 Feb 2007)

Appologies Margie and CCOVICH for behaviour.


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## aircobra19 (23 Feb 2007)

Ditto. Smilies=joking. My bad.


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## Morgause (23 Feb 2007)

Threadser said:


> That sounds like a great deal.  What was the name of the garage in Wexford? Might try them myself next time as am getting very fed up of overpriced servicing.



Hi Threadser, it was Ryans Garage of Ballywilliam, I don't know how well you know County Wexford but they are just a few miles beyond Rathnure as you are coming from the New Ross direction.


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## CCOVICH (23 Feb 2007)

Thanks to both _Mr2_ and _aircobra19_ for taking my request with good grace.


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## annR (23 Feb 2007)

How can you shop around for a part/service price if you have no idea what will need to be done to the car?


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## Mr2 (26 Feb 2007)

If you have an owners manual it will give service intervals with the relevant parts to be replaced and when getting a quote the price in a main dealer would include these usually.ie spark plugs replaced every 18,000 mls so difference between 9,000 and 18,000 would be plugs etc.

 After that you'd have to wait to see what the mechanics say regards brakes tyres etc.

You can ask the question: How much for an 18,000 mile service on my *****?, then say how much for front brake pads if I require them?


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## Margie (26 Feb 2007)

Just to update you all!

The garage are insisting that the bill is legitimate and are not backing down.  They were actually quite defensive even though we were only querying the bill.

The bill as I said is €405.  I was thinking of paying €300 and leaving it at that but I don't want to get myself in trouble.

Another local garage have consulted their mechanics and got back to me insiting that it only takes 2 mins to install the part that I was charged two hours labour for.


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## aircobra19 (26 Feb 2007)

You should be able to get an itemised bill. Then you could query the amount of time for specific tasks with the manufacurer. However you should have agreed a price before hand. I know someone who was charged €20 for filling the wiper water with "cleaning fluid". Different garages have different prices for labour and some charge the full hour for something that only take 5 mins of an hour. Part thereof etc. Theres lots of scope to inflate the cost if you don't agree it before hand. 

I always ask for a quotation, but ask them to ring for permission before doing anything thats increases the quote. If they then fail to ring and do extra work regardless. I refuse to pay, and have made them undo the work on occasion where they went ahead without permission.


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## Margie (29 Mar 2007)

update!

We paid the full bill.  We looked for a discount but were refused.  We told the garage we would never do business with them again.  A friend of mine recently got stung by the same garage - a simple job that required 45 minutes of labour seemingly took 5 hours and she was charged nearly €800. On further enquiry she found out that she should have been charged about €300 (parts included).

Ah well, lesson learned for me never to be repeated.


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