# BOI Change Free Banking Conditions



## Lightning

The gradual erosion of free banking continues. 

According to an advertisement in The Irish Times today, from February 21st 2011: BOI customers must ... 



> Lodge a minimum of 3,000 EUR per quarter AND make 9 debit payments by phone or online.
> 
> OR
> 
> Maintain a minimum balance of 3,000 EUR for the entire quarter.


 
Obviously, it is not wise to maintain large credit balances in a current account.


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## theresa1

If say you pay your landlord €450 and he agrees you could pay him 9 * 50 and you will still get free banking - only in Ireland!


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## Sunny

Yeah, I am just going to split up any debits I make. Actually, I might just close the account. Not worth the hassle!


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## theresa1

Plenty will move to Ulster Bank.


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## Sunny

theresa1 said:


> Plenty will move to Ulster Bank.


 
You would think so. But Irish people are nortoriously loyal or lazy when it comes to switching accounts.


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## Lightning

theresa1 said:


> Plenty will move to Ulster Bank.


 
Yeah, Ulster offer free banking with no conditions to the free banking. 

Many people will decide that BOI, PTSB and AIB have too many hoops to jump through to get free banking and will switch.



Sunny said:


> You would think so. But Irish people are nortoriously loyal or lazy when it comes to switching accounts.


 
True, but the recent deposit movements have shown Irish people's renewed ability to move their deposits/banking to a new bank.


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## Lightning

*BoI fee decision criticised by consumer agency*

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1222/bankofireland.html



> The Consumers' Association has criticised the decision by the Bank of Ireland to start charging some of its customers fees and charges for the first time.
> 
> Bank of Ireland has confirmed that some of its customers will face fees and charges for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> Current account holders who do not make at least nine payments every three months will have fees imposed on them.
> 
> From 21 February, Bank of Ireland customers will also have to have at least €1,000 a month going into their account and make nine payments or more every three months using Banking 365 phone or online banking.
> Alternatively, they should maintain a minimum credit balance of €3,000 during the fee quarter.
> 
> Customers who do not meet the new criteria will be charged *28c for each transaction.*
> 
> The majority of the bank's 1.2m current account holders will be subject to the new fees.
> 
> 26% of customers will not be affected as they hold 'Golden Years' or student accounts.
> 
> The bank says providing customers with current account facilities costs it money.
> 
> The changes have been criticised by the Consumers' Association.
> Derek Jewell described the fees as another kick in the teeth for customers of the bailed out bank.


 
As RTE state, the transaction fees are going up from 20 cent per transaction to 28 cent per transaction as well.


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## Welfarite

Will the other banks follow so that we end up as in the bad old days of no free banking available anywhere?


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## Lightning

The more people that walk with their feet, the less likely other banks will follow suit.


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## thedaras

> they should maintain a minimum credit balance of €3,000 during the fee quarter.



Does anyone know how long the 3k should be in the account?
For example ,could you have 3k in your account for 24 hours and that would qualify you for free banking?

Or do they mean it must remain at 3k for the duration?


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## Curious81

I'm sure it means that your balance cannot drop below 3,000€ during the quarter.

I was planning on moving my current account from AIB to BOI, because I like the simplicity of BOI's minimum 500 4 rule but 3,000€ will be more difficult! Having second thoughts now....


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## venice

is a direct debit each month classed as online banking?


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## Knuttell

Given the amt of times both AIB and BOI were caught out and had to refund monies to customers its amazing to me that they have any customers at all,I have been with Ulster Bank since 1991 I do not recollect ever paying a cent to bank with them,I have never had any issues with customer services and always found them excellent to deal with,esp at branch level.

If there are 2 banks one charges you to leave your hard earned money in their Bank and the other does not...is really kind of a no brainer really..you would think.


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## Sunny

venice said:


> is a direct debit each month classed as online banking?


 
No


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## Lightning

Curious81 said:


> I was planning on moving my current account from AIB to BOI, because I like the simplicity of BOI's minimum 500 4 rule but 3,000€ will be more difficult! Having second thoughts now....


 
Would you consider Ulster?


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## jpd

Cancel direct debits where possible, and make online payments.

Bit of a pain, admittedly


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## Curious81

CiaranT said:


> Would you consider Ulster?



I would but I don't like the idea of their card reader for on-line banking. Might opop into a branch and see if they can show me a demo of their on-line banking system. I find the AIB code card an absolute nuisance and this what made me look into BOI in the first place.


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## Lightning

The Ulster online pass code is not hard to use.


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## PaddyBloggit

Is topping up online considered a 'payment'?


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## Towger

By the end of the day BOI may not exist and we will just have the one Irish State Bank. Complete hefty charges or worse..


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## Lightning

Towger said:


> By the end of the day BOI may not exist and we will just have the one Irish State Bank.


 
Link ??? 

AIB may not exist as a listed entity by the end of the day, as the Indo said today. 

BOI 100% nationalisation is possible but most people seem to say it will be 60-90% nationalised. Defacto a state bank like AIB, Anglo, An Post and INBS.


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## TarfHead

Lodge a minimum of €3000 over 3 months
- many peoples salaries means that's easy

Make 9 payments a quarter using 365 Online or Phone
- pay utilities(ESB, Bord Gais, SKY/upc, mobile provider), credit card, etc. each month means that's not a significant obstacle.

No-one wants to pay for something when you're used to not paying but ..
- banking is a service and not many services are free, or stay free for long
- these free deals were a competitive response to Halifax and others 
- the banks are broke (or haven't you heard ?)

All in all, it's not great news, but it's not the end of the world.


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## moneyhoney

TarfHead said:


> Make 9 payments a quarter using 365 Online or Phone
> - pay utilities(ESB, Bord Gais, SKY/upc, mobile provider), credit card, etc. each month means that's not a significant obstacle.



Not that easy. My ESB, upc and mobile phone all on DD. Had to be set up that way when I got the services. Don't think I could change to paying online? Also, ESB & upc are every second month. 

Only payment I make online every month is to credit card & to savings account - would transferring money to savings a/c or say to my OH's a/c count as a payment?


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## diver

Most ppl that pay utilities by direct debit avail of slightly cheaper charges.

If these direct debits are now cancelled to meet BofI's criteria to avail of free banking, this will defeat the purpose of making any extra savings on bills.

Looks like we're caught every way!


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## diver

Only payment I make online every month is to credit card & to savings account - would transferring money to savings a/c or say to my OH's a/c count as a payment?[/QUOTE]


I suspect it wouldn't.......transferring money from one account to another isn't a payment but I'm open to correction on this one.

Me? I will make 3 smaller payments to my credit card each month instead of one large payment.......that will ensure that I reach 9 payments per quarter


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## TarfHead

moneyhoney said:


> would transferring money to savings a/c or say to my OH's a/c count as a payment?


 
If made using 365 Online or Phone - yes. I make 3 such transfers each month, so that's 9 per quarter sorted before I think of utilities, etc.

You could also shunt, say, €100, from Current to Deposit and back again, once a month. That's 2 of your 9 taken care of.


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## diver

Tarfhead, that's good to know....thanks!


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## SparkRite

TarfHead said:


> I
> 
> You could also shunt, say, €100, from Current to Deposit and back again, once a month. That's 2 of your 9 taken care of.



Why stop at 2, why not put 10 minutes aside and shunt a euro back and forth 9 times, say, at the start of each quarter?


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## TarfHead

SparkRite said:


> Why stop at 2, why not put 10 minutes aside and shunt a euro back and forth 9 times, say, at the start of each quarter?


 
True 'dat


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## dobsdave

I've got numerous a/c's with BOI, wonder if I just do a transfer 'merry-go-round' with my wages will that cover the 1000 euro lodgement?


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## Lightning

dobsdave said:


> I've got numerous a/c's with BOI, wonder if I just do a transfer 'merry-go-round' with my wages will that cover the 1000 euro lodgement?


 
Yes.


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## Black Sheep

Never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to in order to avoid paying bank charges. It bugs me also to have these charges dumped on us, but it's like any other service that we use, we now have to pay for it.  This is not the first time we had bank charges.
For me it's not worth the hassle of changing account numbers, cards etc.


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## PaddyBloggit

Black Sheep said:


> Never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to in order to avoid paying bank charges.



It's called customer/consumer choice.

People have every right to feel aggrieved at these 'new' charges .... especially with the chains of debt the banks have put on us and the country for generations to come.

We're being hit with charges on all sides .... being prudent with our ever dwindling cash means we should do all we can to minimise them.


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## theresa1

What next? Oh yes a charge for having a credit card which would be on top of the government duty. All that these extra charges are achieving is to force more and more people to carry out all banking with hard cash.


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## pudds

theresa1 said:


> What next? Oh yes a charge for having a credit card which would be on top of the government duty. All that these extra charges are achieving is to force more and more people to carry out all banking with *hard cash*.



my thoughts exactly....then I guess they will introduce a charge for over the counter deposits/withdrawals.


We *own* the banks but they are *allowed* to still screw us and finally wring us out to dry.

While we must do our patriotic duty and keep coughing up.. huh...  we need a revolution in this country*  now* more than ever. Never thought I would hear myself say that and I am a passive person.


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## pator

diver said:


> Only payment I make online every month is to credit card & to savings account - would transferring money to savings a/c or say to my OH's a/c count as a payment?


 

I suspect it wouldn't.......transferring money from one account to another isn't a payment but I'm open to correction on this one.

Me? I will make 3 smaller payments to my credit card each month instead of one large payment.......that will ensure that I reach 9 payments per quarter [/QUOTE]

Thanks for the idea Diver. - Do people reckon it will work to just each month divide the credit card bill in three and make three seperate payments? 
Ie will multiple transfers to same account be allowed - cant find anything on the boi website to say it wont.


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## Lightning

It will work, BOI just did not expect people to be doing this.


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## Don_08

diver said:


> Most ppl that pay utilities by direct debit avail of slightly cheaper charges.
> 
> If these direct debits are now cancelled to meet BofI's criteria to avail of free banking, this will defeat the purpose of making any extra savings on bills.
> 
> Looks like we're caught every way!



I have all my utilities set up by dd but every month I make what I reckon monthly payment should be to each. The direct debit is always adjusted for these extra credits. I do this for electricity, gas and UPC as they are two monthly bills. I tend to be in credit in the summer for gas etc but means no big bill in the winter too.


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## theresa1

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...e-of-pantomime-villain-for-a-fee-2471597.html


"Additionally, from February 21, Bank of Ireland customers will have to have a minimum balance of at least €3,000 per quarter (or €1,000 a month) in their account to avoid fees."

The €1,000 a month balance bit above is totally incorrect - bad writing again from the Independent.


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## suemoo1

Curious81 said:


> I would but I don't like the idea of their card reader for on-line banking. Might opop into a branch and see if they can show me a demo of their on-line banking system. I find the AIB code card an absolute nuisance and this what made me look into BOI in the first place.


 
i have a currect a/c with ulsterbank pay 10e a month maintenance and all else free.. ive never had any problems with them on line or in their branches.. the card reader is only used for certain online transactions and it makes it much safer!.


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## Curious81

suemoo1 said:


> i have a currect a/c with ulsterbank pay 10e a month maintenance and all else free.. ive never had any problems with them on line or in their branches.. the card reader is only used for certain online transactions and it makes it much safer!.



10€ a month sounds quite expensive to me...


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## Knuttell

Think its a UFIRST a/c,not sure what value you are getting if you have such an account?


http://www.ufirstaccount.ie/


I have never paid charges on any Ulster Bank a/c and I have been with them nearly 20 years.


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## Sunny

Knuttell said:


> Think its a UFIRST a/c,not sure what value you are getting if you have such an account?


 
I have that account because I get .25% off my mortgage rate.


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## sam27

TarfHead said:


> Lodge a minimum of €3000 over 3 months
> - many peoples salaries means that's easy
> 
> Make 9 payments a quarter using 365 Online or Phone
> - pay utilities(ESB, Bord Gais, SKY/upc, mobile provider), credit card, etc. each month means that's not a significant obstacle.
> 
> No-one wants to pay for something when you're used to not paying but ..
> - banking is a service and not many services are free, or stay free for long
> - these free deals were a competitive response to Halifax and others
> - the banks are broke (or haven't you heard ?)
> 
> All in all, it's not great news, but it's not the end of the world.


Not when someone is unemployed!!!


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## sam27

Black Sheep said:


> Never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to in order to avoid paying bank charges. It bugs me also to have these charges dumped on us, but it's like any other service that we use, we now have to pay for it.  This is not the first time we had bank charges.
> For me it's not worth the hassle of changing account numbers, cards etc.



You must have money to burn so


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## dahamsta

Does anyone know off the top of their head if there are any business accounts with no fees? The amount I pay to AIB every month, between the fees and the online banking, is just crazy for a small business. I've finished my "introductory offer" and I won't go back to BOI. Ever.


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## Lightning

dahamsta said:


> Does anyone know off the top of their head if there are any business accounts with no fees? The amount I pay to AIB every month, between the fees and the online banking, is just crazy for a small business. I've finished my "introductory offer" and I won't go back to BOI. Ever.



Hi Adam, 

AFAIK, all business current accounts charge transaction fees. 

What is the biggest fee that is hitting your business? is it wire fees? 

Do you have large deposits in your current account? NIB pay 2.5% for this online instant access business eSaver account.


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## dahamsta

Nah, it's just a constant barrage of fees for every single transaction. It's not huge money, it's just far too much for the service they're providing. Which is of course close to none.

Large deposits? I should be so lucky. 

I'll have a look at the invoices, see if anything stands out the last few months.


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## crazypole

So it's Feb 21st. Does it mean that we have to meet the conditions in a quarter before that date ? Or after, starting to pay May 21st if conditions are not met previously ?

Someone mentioned paying into savings accounts by 365online transfer. Is it even possible ? I thought that savings accounts require direct debit (which does not count).

I have 2 accounts: boi and ptsb. Use to transfer 2k to ptsb every month, 1k goes to ptsb monthly saver later on,  rest is spent (1k lodgement per month and 18 transactions on ptsb visa per quarter to get their free banking). I guess I will have to do few more clicks now.

Or just close one of the accounts as interest is a joke anyway.


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## TarfHead

crazypole said:


> Someone mentioned paying into savings accounts by 365online transfer. Is it even possible ?



Absolutely - I did 3 of them yesterday



crazypole said:


> I thought that savings accounts require direct debit (which does not count).



Not so, most deposit accounts are demand - lodge and withdraw at will, including with browser/phone.



crazypole said:


> Or just close one of the accounts as interest is a joke anyway.



True for most demand deposit products.


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## DrMoriarty

looking2011 said:


> I can see this policy generating a huge increase in the number of 'pretend' online payments, for eg €1 into my savings account using B365 counts as a transaction. Or people paying their Esb online in 9 divvided transactions to generate online payment count. I would not like to be in BOI 's IT dept when these charges kick in!!!


This is precisely the kind of thing I will do. It doesn't suit me to close my BoI a/c because they have a sub-office in my place of employment. But I resent this move and if enough customers start effecting nine €0.01 transactions every 89 days, maybe the message will eventually filter back up to the management level at which this decision was taken.


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## pudds

DrMoriarty said:


> This is precisely the kind of thing I will do. It doesn't suit me to close my BoI a/c because they have a sub-office in my place of employment. But I resent this move and if enough customers start effecting nine €0.01 transactions every 89 days, maybe the message will eventually filter back up to the management level at which this decision was taken.





They will just set a minimum transaction level of x amount.


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## theresa1

[broken link removed]


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## theresa1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1231/banks.html


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## Wiz

Does anyone know is there a thread on how to switch from BOI current account to Ulster Bank current account? 
 Has anyone done this yet, and any issues?
 I assume I just go to UB and give them details of BOI account and let  the switching code of conduct between banks arrange the move.

Ulster bank current account is free per its your money(dot)ie website  current account cost comparisions. Apologies but cannot post link as  less than 15 posts!


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## theresa1

I have a BOI savings and current account but I get my salary paid into my savings account as I had this before ever having a current account. I was going to notify my employers wages dept to change payment to my current account but i can move it myself every month - i already normally do this and of course i will be playing around with transfers to make sure I do 9 transactions in total.


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## theresa1

[broken link removed]

- Yet another article - time for a BOI u-turn?


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## bigbadostric

Hi all,

A question on this. My 365 online is set up as follows:

My main current a/c
A 2nd current a/c used as a 'hub' for my flatmates and I to lodge bills, rent etc
A savings a/c
Credit Card a/c

I make quite a large number of payments between the two current accounts so I don't think I should be affected by these charges. I presume transferring between the two accounts using 365 online counts as a 'debit payment?'


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## pepperds

Gotta love this.  Have been with BOI since 1999, I have mortgage, various savings & investment products, I have not stepped into my branch for over four, yes four years, and everything in and out of my two current accounts is electronic (no idea where my cheque book even is).

Understand the idea is to get people out of branches as this is where most of the cost is, but why not include direct debits and standing orders - they cost nothing to transact !!!

Think I'll be switching!!


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## eggerb

pepperds said:


> Understand the idea is to get people out of branches as this is where most of the cost is, but why not include direct debits and standing orders - they cost nothing to transact !!!



+1 

They should include direct debits and SOs in the 9 transactions. I haven't been in my branch in about 6 years I'd say. 

I had planned to schedule 36 transactions tonight (for 2011) but     you can only schedule 60 days in advance. (They got me!) Anyhow, I have scheduled     nine for 1st March to one of my savings accounts. I am going to do     the same for the other billing periods. So, I'll be scheduling     payments for for 1st June, 1st September and 1st December!

    I could leave 3000 on deposit but I wouldn't give them the     satisfaction (or, that wouldn't satisfy me at least!).


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## theresa1

Most companies insist on or encourage bills to be paid by Direct Debit so by excluding these and standing orders it makes it difficult for people to do 9 transactions so they will make money from these people. The regulator should take action but wont bother but people can take action by moving to Ulster, NIB or just playing the silly merry go round with 9 transactions of €1 for example.


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## rebecca1999

hi, can i just ask a quick question
I give my daughter her lunch money and her pocket money every sunday night n she puts the pocket money into her own Ulster account after school. can I transfer the pocket money to her account over the phone or using 365online and if the answer is yes what info do i need to set it up. 
I pay all my bills by dd except one s/o to credit union.
thanks peeps


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## TarfHead

pepperds said:


> I have not stepped into my branch for over four, yes four years,


 
I'll see your 4 years and raise you 20  ! I have not been in my branch since 1986, and that includes 3 mortgage applications & approvals !


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## TarfHead

rebecca1999 said:


> can I transfer the pocket money to her account over the phone or using 365online and if the answer is yes what info do i need to set it up.


 
Assuming you, and the account from which you'll be transferring the funds, are already set-up in 365 Online ..

Set up your daughter's Ulster Bank account as a payment beneficiary
Payments > Money Transfer > Add a Beneficiary

When you've provided those details. BOI then send you a code with which to complete the set-up. This will be by letter, or can be by SMS if you're already set-up for that.

When your daughter's account details are fully set-up in 365 Online, you can then transfer funds.

However ..

If you want her to have access to the funds on Monday morning, you'll need to make the payment, using 365 Online/Phone, before 5pm on the previous Thursday, assuming the Friday and the Monday (and the Thursday  !) are all bank working days.


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## rebecca1999

thanks for the reply, have set it up today. she doesn't need to access the money immediately so no problem there. Thank you again


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## adox

Just a quick question. Myself and my wife both have current accounts with BOI. Now im not worried about the new charges affecting me as my wages go through this account and also I pay at least 3 bills a month online.

My wife however is unemployed and receiving no income at all. She got the dole for 12 months and then didnt qualify for any other unemplyment assistance. So I`m sure she can manage 9 transactions per quarter but she wont have capital going in to cover the €3,000.

My question is: Can I transfer money in to her account and then back out and have that qualify as money going through account to mee the terms, i.e. I put €1000 in to her account each month and get her to transfer it back in to my account 24 hours later, or does the money need to sit there for a certain amount of time, be it the end of the month or whatever.

Thanks in advance.


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## theresa1

Lodge in a fee quarter at least €3,000 - your plan will work also her transfering it back to you will count as a transaction for her  - it really is silly but it's entirely BOI's fault.


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## local

diver said:


> Most ppl that pay utilities by direct debit avail of slightly cheaper charges.
> 
> If these direct debits are now cancelled to meet BofI's criteria to avail of free banking, this will defeat the purpose of making any extra savings on bills.
> 
> Looks like we're caught every way!



I think very few utilities give a discount for paying by direct debit.  UPC and Bord Gais come to mind.  No phone companies or ESB though?


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## local

DrMoriarty said:


> if enough customers start effecting nine €0.01 transactions every 89 days, maybe the message will eventually filter back up to the management level at which this decision was taken.



I like that idea.  Forgot about paying bills in three thirds.  Pay 9 transactions of 1c and then the balance, just to get the point across.  

Sure, they can increase the minimum transaction amount, but not above €1, I'd say, so they just pay 9 x minimum plus the balance.


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## theresa1

local said:


> I think very few utilities give a discount for paying by direct debit. UPC and Bord Gais come to mind. No phone companies or ESB though?


 
Add on Airtricity and Flogas.


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## eggerb

karlitob said:


> Just to clarify. DD/SO does not count. But scheduled transaction does??
> 
> Thanks



DDs and SOs don't count. A payment scheduled from within BOI 365 Online counts as a normal B365 payment however you can only schedule 60 days in advance and not recurring like a DD or SO.


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## theresa1

[broken link removed]

- fairly good article.


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## Welfarite

From theresa1's linked article ....:

"But Fitzgerald points out that the bank has made it “very difficult to hit the target of nine transactions a quarter because they no longer include standing orders and direct debits when calculating a number of transactions”.
She suggests one easy way people could avoid the charges: by transferring small amounts, say one euro three times a month, to a friend.
Another way to circumvent the charges was suggested by a call centre worker with the Bank of Ireland. If you owe €90 on your credit card, rather than pay it in one fell swoop, go online and make nine separate payments of €10. Alternatively, do the same thing over the phone – it will waste your time and a bank employee’s but will mean you meet the new requirements."


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## Lightning

> "very difficult to hit the target of nine transactions a quarter because they no longer include standing orders and direct debits when calculating a number of transactions”



Good point. I will add this to the best buys. 

The other alternative is to just walk with your feet. The great Irish Times article makes the condition fee alternatives clear.


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## waitress

Does Ulster Bank allow you open two current accounts - one personal one business? I am currently with AIB and BOI but am sick of the hoops in both and impending changes in BOI....


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## chook

CiaranT said:


> The other alternative is to just walk with your feet. The great Irish Times article makes the condition fee alternatives clear.



I'm in the process of switching to Ulster Bank. That announcement by BoI was the proverbial straw - another kick in the teeth. Have been a customer since joining on the UCD campus in 1992. Enough is enough. And I will say that to them the day I close my account and cancel my CC with them. Just waiting for approval now from UB.


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## cciccicci

I have a small questions, I have a personal current account in BoI and  im going only gonna use it from now to receive international transfers  and withdraw money abroad. No DD, no standar order, no toping up  mobiles, or anything else but this. plus in a quartes i will probably  make 10 movements, no more. Will I qualify to pay 11.90 a month or I can  pay by transaction 0.28 each, 2.80). paying by transactions oesnt sound  too bad for me for the way I use my card, but 11.90 for this kind of  use... no thanks!

ideas? Thanks!


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## Lightning

cciccicci said:


> I have a small questions, I have a personal current account in BoI and  im going only gonna use it from now to receive international transfers  and withdraw money abroad. No DD, no standar order, no toping up  mobiles, or anything else but this. plus in a quartes i will probably  make 10 movements, no more. Will I qualify to pay 11.90 a month or I can  pay by transaction 0.28 each, 2.80). paying by transactions oesnt sound  too bad for me for the way I use my card, but 11.90 for this kind of  use... no thanks!
> 
> ideas? Thanks!



It sounds like you will not meet the T&C's below, to qualify for free banking:



> Day to Day Banking charges from February 21st 2011: *Free if you maintain a balance of at least 3,000 EUR every day during the BOI billing quarter* or make at last 9 debits online/via telephone banking each quarter *AND lodge at least 3,000 EUR to the account during that quarter*. Otherwise you are charged 11.90 EUR per quarter for the first 90 transactions and 28 cent per transaction thereafter. 9 transactions does not include standing orders and direct debits when calculating a number of transactions.


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## Greta

cciccicci said:


> I have a small questions, I have a personal current account in BoI and  im going only gonna use it from now to receive international transfers  and withdraw money abroad. No DD, no standar order, no toping up  mobiles, or anything else but this. plus in a quartes i will probably  make 10 movements, no more. Will I qualify to pay 11.90 a month or I can  pay by transaction 0.28 each, 2.80). paying by transactions oesnt sound  too bad for me for the way I use my card, but 11.90 for this kind of  use... no thanks!
> 
> ideas? Thanks!



You can get free banking if you maintain 3000 euro in your account at all times.

If you don't qualify for free banking, you'll be charged at least 11.90 per quarter - for the first 90 transactions, even if the actual number of your transactions is going to be much smaller. At least that's how I understand it. And yes, I agree, it's a rip off in cases when only a few transactions are made (or none).


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## cciccicci

Oh, well, it won-t work for me anymore making such a little number of transactions. Shame, over all I was happy with my account! Will check and report back!! 
Thank you!!!


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## pator

Have any BofI customers got a letter yet from the bank informing them of the changes? I am a current account customer but haven't heard from them yet


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## chook

pator said:


> Have any BofI customers got a letter yet from the bank informing them of the changes? I am a current account customer but haven't heard from them yet



Nope. Same here.


----------



## sexitoni

Is there an easy way to close an account without calling in? My nearest branch is a bit away and I don't get enough of a break to get there and back on a weekday.


----------



## boaber

pator said:


> Have any BofI customers got a letter yet from the bank informing them of the changes? I am a current account customer but haven't heard from them yet



Not yet either.  Was reading the Consumer Protection and it states:



> A regulated entity must, where applicable:
> 
> b) advise affected consumers of increases in charges, or the introduction of any new charges, at least 30 days before the change takes effect;



I doubt if releasing a statement to the media qualifies as advising affected consumers


----------



## PaddyBloggit

sexitoni said:


> Is there an easy way to close an account without calling in? My nearest branch is a bit away and I don't get enough of a break to get there and back on a weekday.




Yup   .... very easy.

Write them a letter, giving account details, ask them to close it, sign it and you're done.

You'll get confirmation by post when they close it.

I had an account with UB in a far away county, never used, I wrote a letter and they closed it.


----------



## sexitoni

PaddyBloggit said:


> Yup   .... very easy.
> 
> Write them a letter, giving account details, ask them to close it, sign it and you're done.
> 
> You'll get confirmation by post when they close it.
> 
> I had an account with UB in a far away county, never used, I wrote a letter and they closed it.



Cheers!


----------



## rebecca1999

hi, another question, 
i never have 3k in the account, but i do lodge into the account every week, can someone just clarify for me. As long as i ensure 3k is lodged every quarter and I also make the required 365online payments (discussed this one earlier, and solved ) then I'm ''safe''. 
Am I able to in theory lodge €300 today, withdraw €200 tomorrow via atm and then lodge the same €200 the next day, therefore showing a lodgement of €500, but in reality it is the same money.
Hope that makes sense
Thanks


----------



## alaskaonline

boaber said:


> I doubt if releasing a statement to the media qualifies as advising affected consumers


 according to Meteor who had a similar price/ condition change, this is sufficient. at the time I complained to them and they quoted some EU regulation...

I read the BOI change in several papers now and heard it on the radio so they did use several media points.

I talked to BOI yesterday and they said as long as € 3000 were in total in the account in the quarter (doesn't have to be in one go, can be spread and obviously withdrawn) and nine transactions were made, no one will be charged extra. Transfering money to your CC and Saving account does qualify as valid transactions. This rule only applies to current accounts by the way. I am using my current account continuously. It's a different matter with the saving account so I am glad the rule doesn't apply here.


----------



## boaber

alaskaonline said:


> according to Meteor who had a similar price/ condition change, this is sufficient. at the time I complained to them and they quoted some EU regulation...



But are Meteor regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland?  The CPC (which *Financial Institutions* must comply with) was produced by the Financial Regulator


----------



## alaskaonline

Of course not boaber. I was more so making the point that some companies think that media coverage is sufficient. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if Banks think similar. If they're in the right is a whole other matter and I wouldn't have enough knowledge about the Financial Regulator's policy to say otherwise.


----------



## Sunny

Putting an ad in the papers about change in terms and conditions is sufficient for the purpose of giving notice to customers.


----------



## Satanta

Have to say, this is one of the most idiotic changes I've seen in a long time. 

There's basically 3 lines this will take:
- Large number of customers leave
- Apathy/ignorance leads to a small financial gain from a small number of customers
- Huge administration burden from the large number of customers faffing about in order to avoid fees ("can I withdraw €500 please... and now lodge it back please... and can you do that twice more please" along with the €0.01 online transfers)

Hard to believe that the small profits achieved from a handful of customers will offset the increased costs they'll suffer, the loss of customers, the bad PR, the customer dissatisfaction, etc. etc..


----------



## dahamsta

Sunny said:


> Putting an ad in the papers about change in terms and conditions is sufficient for the purpose of giving notice to customers.



What's a "paper"?


----------



## gnubbit

I agree Satanta.  I don't see how they can gain from this.  I'm very angry as I've always conducted my accounts perfectly - I'm not the cause of the mess they're in.

I'm regularly in my branch or close by  - I might start going in and lodging/withdrawing tiny amounts at the counter as a form of protest and to technically fulfill their new T&Cs.  And if they change it again so I can't avail of the loophole, I'll move everything to Ulster Bank.


----------



## pudds

and we all though _that he who pays the piper calls the tune_  yeah right


----------



## thedaras

Would anyone know if the following transactions mean that you comply with the new terns and conditions;
Withdrawing cash from an ATM ?
Or using a laser to pay for say groceries in Dunnes for whatever?


----------



## theresa1

thedaras said:


> Would anyone know if the following transactions mean that you comply with the new terns and conditions;
> Withdrawing cash from an ATM ?
> Or using a laser to pay for say groceries in Dunnes for whatever?


 
No to both.



​　
You have to make 9 debit payments from your current account using Banking 365 Phone and/or Online excluding direct debits and standing orders.

If you do make the 9 payments then your atm withdrawal and laser will be free (Government Duty will still be charged).


----------



## Bronte

Satanta said:


> - Large number of customers leave
> - Apathy/ignorance leads to a small financial gain from a small number of customers
> - Huge administration burden from the large number of customers faffing about in order to avoid fees


 
Well based on the amount of people on AAM trying to get around the new rules I'd say

- that very few customers will switch, plus it's tiresome and difficult, and statistically one is more likely to divorce than to change bank
- large financial gain from a lot of customers, the financially savvy one's will already have their ducks in a row
- people won't bother faffing about to avoid fees, it takes too much effort

Maybe it's time for one of the famous AAM survey's, how many of you were a BOI customer and how many of you have switched to a new bank after the recent rule change


----------



## Knuttell

gnubbit said:


> I'm regularly in my branch or close by  - I might start going in and lodging/withdrawing tiny amounts at the counter as a form of protest and to technically fulfill their new T&Cs.  And if they change it again so I can't avail of the loophole, I'll move everything to Ulster Bank.




I dont get that,why put yourself to inordinate trouble to make a statement that BOI nor counter staff will give a toss about,save yourself a lot of hastle and just make the move to Ulster Bank now,I have zero tolerance for Irish banks and less than zero loyalty to them.


----------



## gnubbit

gnubbit said:


> * I'm regularly in my branch or close by  *- I might start going in and lodging/withdrawing tiny amounts at the counter as a form of protest and to technically fulfill their new T&Cs.  And if they change it again so I can't avail of the loophole, I'll move everything to Ulster Bank.





Knuttell said:


> I dont get that,why put yourself to inordinate trouble to make a statement that BOI nor counter staff will give a toss about,save yourself a lot of hastle and just make the move to Ulster Bank now,I have zero tolerance for Irish banks and less than zero loyalty to them.


Well it really wouldn't be putting myself to inordinate trouble as I'm there regularly anyway.

I suppose I was venting my frustration when I wrote that though, I'm not sure it's something I would actually do.  The idea amused me at the time but I can be a fickle creature. 

I would prefer to stay with BOI as I'm not confident the others are any better and it's more convenient for me to stay.  Certainly none of the banks have MY  interests at heart!  I will probably wait to see where they plan to move Anglo and INBS deposits and make my decision then.


----------



## Perplexed

Greta said:


> You can get free banking if you maintain 3000 euro in your account at all times.
> 
> If you don't qualify for free banking, you'll be charged at least 11.90 per quarter - for the first 90 transactions, even if the actual number of your transactions is going to be much smaller. At least that's how I understand it. And yes, I agree, it's a rip off in cases when only a few transactions are made (or none).



There is still an option for Pay as you go which is 28c per tx (and has been 28c per tx for a long time contrary to popular misconception). If you have only a few transactions then this is the cheaper option. You just need to tell your bank that you are taking this option. If you are alrady on it no need to change anything.

To answer another question ...yes Phone top ups do count as online transactions.

There is so much media frenzy about this and so much false information. Yes I am a staff member of BoI and we have Senior Citizens coming into the office wanting to close their a/c's because of what they hear on Joe Duffy etc. As Golden Years customers they do not pay Fees. Neither do students. Anyone who has never used 365 Online/Phone will not have any changes whatsoever. If you're already a 365 user you will easily know how to circumvent these charges. It may mean making a few more transfers, topping up your phone or whatever, but it's not rocket science!


----------



## Greta

Perplexed said:


> There is still an option for Pay as you go which is 28c per tx (and has been 28c per tx for a long time contrary to popular misconception). If you have only a few transactions then this is the cheaper option. You just need to tell your bank that you are taking this option. If you are alrady on it no need to change anything.



I thought that anyone who doesn't qualify for free banking has to pay for the first 90 transactions per quarter, even if they don't make nearly as much, and that it's only for those transactions over 90 that 28c per transaction applies. At least that's how I understood BOI's new rules.

On the other side, if, as you say, it's easy to circumvent these charges and they don't apply to a lot of people (pensioners, students etc), then why is BOI introducing them??? Just to generate bad publicity for itself?


----------



## Perplexed

There are two options for Fee structures and these are on the a/c opening form.

1. Pay as you go which is 28c per transaction 
2. Set fee of approx €11.90 per quarter which gives you up to 90 tx for the 3 months.

I don't want to get into an arguement. I just wanted to clarify a few things as a lot of people are being upset by false information.

I don't agree with a lot of things bankers have done in the past few years but at the end of the day it's a business and I think all businesses charge for providing services. ATM's and other facilities cost money to supply. The choice is entirely yours as to whether you want these services or not.
Obviously people who use the Self Service options of 365 Online/Phone cost less to service and quite rightly deserve a discount for doing so.


----------



## theresa1

Just move to Ulster Bank or NIB - personally i will play merry go round and waist more ink on statements they have to send me out. I can see plenty of 1 cent transactions happening.


----------



## Greta

Perplexed said:


> Obviously people who use the Self Service options of 365 Online/Phone cost less to service and quite rightly deserve a discount for doing so.



Direct debits cost even less to service but people are being forced to do unnecessary online/phone transactions just to circumvent the new system. 

It's the second attempt of BOI to charge for transactions, though the first time, as far as I remember, there was no way to get free banking. Then BOI changed it's policy - why? Presumably because charging everyone wasn't worth it.

I hope customers will leave them in droves now, then they might realise a thing or two.

Unfortunately it's difficult for me to leave them as I leave outside Ireland, not sure whether I can open any current account without travelling to Ireland. But if I lived in Ireland, I certainly would.


----------



## Greta

theresa1 said:


> Just move to Ulster Bank or NIB - personally i will play merry go round and waist more ink on statements they have to send me out. I can see plenty of 1 cent transactions happening.



I have already been doing 1 cent transactions, in order to get interest on current account. Though it's very little anyway, but still, why not


----------



## PaddyBloggit

1 cent transactions ... how? online? and from current to savings and back?

How often? etc.


----------



## theresa1

PaddyBloggit said:


> 1 cent transactions ... how? online? and from current to savings and back?
> 
> How often? etc.


 


- Online (phone calls would make it cost more) - just do nine  1 cent debit transactions in each quarter if necessary to get FREE banking. I also have a BOI savings a/c so i could just bounce 9 cent back and forward.

Plenty of ways (Silly yes but who's fault is that?) to avoid the charges.

Dont forget to lodge €3,000 also in to a/c but then you can move it on,spend it or whatever.


----------



## PaddyBloggit

Re. the €3k .... does it have to be a lump sum or can it be totalled over the quarter?

Am I reading right? .... a debit transaction is just moving money from one account to the next and back?


----------



## theresa1

Totalled over the quarter.


A debit payment is money going out from your a/c - you have to do at least 9 and they exclude direct debits and standing orders. You could do 9 cent payments one after the other or once a week for example as long as you do 9 in the quarter.


----------



## PaddyBloggit

Thanks for that Theresa but the 9 cents out .... does moving it from a current account to a savings account count? or do they have to be external payments?


----------



## theresa1

PaddyBloggit said:


> Thanks for that Theresa but the 9 cents out .... does moving it from a current account to a savings account count? or do they have to be external payments?


 

They dont have to be external - savings a/c, credit card a/c will be fine.


----------



## PaddyBloggit

Thanks for that Theresa.


----------



## Satanta

PaddyBloggit said:


> Re. the €3k .... does it have to be a lump sum or can it be totalled over the quarter?


As mentioned, it's accumulative over the quarter. 

There's also no limit on withdrawals made during that time, so in theory, you could achieve the €3000 deposit requirement (and the nine online transactions) with only 1c in your account (and enough cheek to say "Can I withdraw my 1c. Now can I re-lodge it please. Now can you do that for me another 299,999 times please" - that's an extreme example, but it illustrates the point).


----------



## Time

It would be doable with a larger amount of say €100.


----------



## rebecca1999

just thought I would mention this, 
Called into local BOI this morning to lodge and double checked with the cashier that todays lodgement would go towards the €3k needed over the quarter,
 his reply was ''oh no, you've got it wrong you have to have €3k in creditand lodge the €3k over the quarter'', 
I asked him '' are you sure?''
him ''yes'', me ''are you sure?'' him ''yes, check with customer services on the way out'', me ''okay , I will''. Queued for customer service, I asked the same questions again and her reply was the same..me ''have you got it in writing for me to just double check'', her ''yes, here you are, page 7....oh hang on a minute!'' me, ''oh right it is €3k in credit OR lodge €3k and make 9 online or telephone payments'', her, ''yeah, is that all you wanted cos there a big queue now!''
mmmmm the mind boggles.


----------



## Knuttell

rebecca1999 said:


> j ''have you got it in writing for me to just double check'', her ''yes, here you are, page 7....oh hang on a minute!'' me, ''oh right it is €3k in credit OR lodge €3k and make 9 online or telephone payments'', her, ''yeah, is that all you wanted cos there a big queue now!''
> mmmmm the mind boggles.



God,dont these people havent even the remotest clue about their own Banks T&Cs,I know its just rolling out but there are thousands of customers who know this information inside out,if they are as ignorant at branch level imagine how bad they are at senior management...no wonder we are where we are.


----------



## sandrat

just wanted to check something, I made 9 transactions in the amount of 1 euro to my husband's account this morning and he is going to send 9 euros back the same way. Is that us both covered for this quarter then?


----------



## theresa1

sandrat said:


> just wanted to check something, I made 9 transactions in the amount of 1 euro to my husband's account this morning and he is going to send 9 euros back the same way. Is that us both covered for this quarter then?


 


If you used 365 online and/or 365 phone and both with BOI Current a/c's then yes. You also need to lodge at least €3,000 in total during the quarter.


----------



## theresa1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12521955




The bank says providing customers with current account facilities costs it money. However they are happy to provide Northern Ireland People Current A/c's for FREE. Maybe they should ask the U.K. Government for a few Billion.

We really are treated like fools!


----------



## Satanta

rebecca1999 said:


> ''yes, here you are, page 7....oh hang on a minute!''


That's shocking. 

I'd have imagined that staff would have been extremely familiar with the in's and out's of it in order to field the various questions they'll get hit with. If it was a single member of staff, you could potentially understand a mistake, but two members in the same branch making such a fundamental error... terrible.

It goes even further beyond a joke when the very service that is now directly tied into their billing structure won't even work. Trying to activate a new beneficiary account and the system is failing to issue an activation code to my mobile (something I have done numerous times in the past - phone number correctly validated etc. etc.).


----------



## sandrat

theresa1 said:


> If you used 365 online and/or 365 phone and both with BOI Current a/c's then yes. You also need to lodge at least €3,000 in total during the quarter.


 
Wages going in electronically counts for this doesn't it?


----------



## Time

It does.


----------



## gnubbit

Sandra yes - the 3000 requirement is separate to the requirement for 9 Banking 365 transactions.  So I guess for most people it will be an electronic transfer of salary.


Does anyone know what the dates for each quarter are?

For those that were given wrong information by bank employees - sadly I am not surprised.  I was given wrong information relating to one of my accounts by several employees in different sections of the bank, one of them quite senior.  It's only when you ask for something in writing that they seemed to check it out more carefully.


----------



## sandrat

quote from bank of Ireland customer notification
​　
"Account transaction fees are currently calculated quarterly, with each fee quarter ending on the weekend closest to 21st February, 21st May, 21st August, 21st November"


----------



## Time

They wouldn't make it simple would they?


----------



## gnubbit

sandrat said:


> quote from bank of Ireland customer notification
> 
> "Account transaction fees are currently calculated quarterly, with each fee quarter ending on the weekend closest to 21st February, 21st May, 21st August, 21st November"


Thank you, will have to set reminders to do all the silly messing around required to get free banking from BOI.


----------



## PaddyBloggit

If charges came into effect yesterday and the first quarter ends today are people without the x number of transactions etc. caught this time?


----------



## pator

Just for those that are not changing bank these are the dates for charging quaters: 
Fee Calculation
Period
(Dates are inclusive)
22 Feb – 21 May 10
24 May – 20 Aug 10
23 Aug – 19 Nov 10
22 Nov – 18 Feb 11
21 Feb – 20 May 11​

Source - [broken link removed] ​ 
ie need to do the nine transactions within those dates each quater​


----------



## sandrat

PaddyBloggit said:


> If charges came into effect yesterday and the first quarter ends today are people without the x number of transactions etc. caught this time?


 
First quarter ended at the weekend nearest to 21st February so 21st February was 1st day of the 2nd quarter


----------



## Lightning

pator said:


> Just for those that are not changing bank these are the dates for charging quaters:
> Fee Calculation
> Period
> (Dates are inclusive)
> 22 Feb – 21 May 10
> 24 May – 20 Aug 10
> 23 Aug – 19 Nov 10
> 22 Nov – 18 Feb 11
> 21 Feb – 20 May 11​
> 
> Source - [broken link removed] ​
> ie need to do the nine transactions within those dates each quater​



Thanks. I bet a lot of people think it is a calendar quarter. I will update the best buys.


----------



## theresa1

Article in The Irish Mail on Sunday entitled "Crafty customers figure a way to beat BoI's new charges".
Basically moving money from current a/c to savings a/c and back again and breaking up your credit card payment nine times as advised by a BOI agent.

The Regulator needs to intervene to stop this nonsense that customers will now be engaged in to avoid fees.


----------



## Time

> The Regulator needs to intervene to stop this nonsense that customers will now be engaged in to avoid fees.


Why?


----------



## theresa1

Just to be clear I'm against the bank and not the people playing 'pass the transaction around'.
I for one will now receive statements with more transactions that I would not normally do. It may not be much more ink in my own case but it all adds up.


----------



## Time

Fair enough. I see where you are coming from.


----------



## theresa1

http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/credit-cards/pay-and-manage-cards-online/

- Incorrect information still on website about old 3 payment policy to qualify for FREE banking.


----------



## Greta

I know. The correct info is there too, but it's very hard to find. 

There is also nothing on their bank statements, just the info about 3 payments needing to qualify for (miserly) credit interest.

Looks to me like they are keeping very quiet about it, counting on people not finding out. Though when the fees do start appearing on people's bank statements, surely people will notice then?


----------



## pator

pator said:


> Just for those that are not changing bank these are the dates for charging quaters:
> Fee Calculation
> Period
> (Dates are inclusive)
> 22 Feb – 21 May 10
> 24 May – 20 Aug 10
> 23 Aug – 19 Nov 10
> 22 Nov – 18 Feb 11
> 21 Feb – 20 May 11​
> 
> Source - [broken link removed] ​
> ie need to do the nine transactions within those dates each quater​


 
Just a quick reminder to anyone with B of I that you need to get the nine transactions done (and have lodged 3k over the period) by the end of next week as the first billing period ends on the 21st.
Or indeed if you already have at least nine done and normally wouldn't have too many hold off untill the 24th for anymore to save yourself having to do small transactions to meet the nine in the next quarter (I just had to do 3 x €1 lodgements to the credit card)


----------



## marksa

this whole 9 transactions... etc is a load of bs. People working out how to avoid it by doing switching in and out of the account. All that will happen is that BoI will do like what AIB did recently on credit interest on current accounts - where AIB sent out a letter saying that in order to simplify the structure of all of their credit interest permutations on current accounts they were going to make all of them interest free! So in a similar situation, BoI could say - to heck with this - let's just make everyone pay a quarterly fee, or pay as you go... its inevitable in some form as they need to improve income given the dire state of their franchise at present.


----------



## pator

marksa said:


> this whole 9 transactions... etc is a load of bs. People working out how to avoid it by doing switching in and out of the account. .


 
I dont thing it is the thing you suggested - I was merely trying to help people that wanted to avoid the charges. The rationale of this site was, I thought, best use of money so if people choose legally and above board to try to avoid charges then surely that is their decision. Particularly when cash is tight I cant see anything wrong with trying to help people.
In simply terms do/should we not always seek out the best deal possible for our individual circumstances. 



marksa said:


> All that will happen is that BoI will do like what AIB did recently on credit interest on current accounts - where AIB sent out a letter saying that in order to simplify the structure of all of their credit interest permutations on current accounts they were going to make all of them interest free!.


 
To me interest on current accounts and charges for using a current account are two completlely different things. The B of I rate on current accounts is 0.25% up to 1,500 so if people are looking for good rates then the excellent best buys in the deposit section is available for people to choose a savings account that suits them. This is about charges. I dont think you are comparing like with like 



marksa said:


> So in a similar situation, BoI could say - to heck with this - let's just make everyone pay a quarterly fee, or pay as you go... its inevitable in some form as they need to improve income given the dire state of their franchise at present.


 
Yes indeed, in theory they could do absolutely anything, if my memory is correct from college days once we give them our money it becomes their money so yes they could do anything. 
For the moment at least there is still competition in the market which makes it much more difficult to do as you suggested. You may of course have inside information that B of I are planning someit like you suggest. 

There is always a level of inertia so B of I will, I suspect, make money out of this move and I was simply trying to help people on this forum - who had expressed a wish not to pay charges for current accounts in credit - by reminding then that the first deadline for the charging period is approaching. 

Obviously if anybody wants to pay the charges that is up to them self, as you say they (Bank) need money so was just trying to make sure that people had the info to make an informed decision. 

If people agree with your argument that the bank needs the money and we should not try avoid the charges then that is indeed very noble and once people have all the info then we are both happy.


----------



## Seesee

Just got caught on this, had 8 transactions. Was charged a whopping 27e on one a/c and 18 on the other. Now, it's totally my own fault as had always done 3 bogey transactions per quarter before and just forgot to up it to 9 but still it wrankles. So I will phone my friendly (not) bank manager tomorrow and see if can get them to reverse it but if not perhaps it is time to move to UB. Is there a keypost on this?


----------



## Stephanno

It appears that transfer money from different BOI bank account won't work.
I just received a fee notification statement, and despite having lodged more than 3000 euro and having done 24 365 transactions, mostly between two BOI accounts, I've been charged 17.36 euro.


----------



## PolkaDot

Stephanno said:


> It appears that transfer money from different BOI bank account won't work.



Has anyone looked for any clarification on this from BOI? There was never any mention of transfers to BOI accounts being ineligible as contributing towards the 9 transactions per quarter.


----------



## Seesee

transactions between boi accounts were allowed before, this was confirmed to me in the past by 365 staff member who agreed it was a little foolish (!)


----------



## Lightning

I cannot believe that BoI are not allowing internal BoI transfers to count, this completely contradicts what they have publicly said before. 

Can anyone find a public quote form BoI that previously states this? If so, I will email the Central Bank of Ireland about this. 

I will update the best buy thread with a note about this.


----------



## PolkaDot

The T&Cs in relation to the free day-to-day banking are set out on the website here:
http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/current-accounts/standard-current-account/

and in this PDF:
[broken link removed]

Neither say anything about "internal BOI" transfers not counting.


----------



## Lightning

PolkaDot said:


> The T&Cs in relation to the free day-to-day banking are set out on the website here:
> http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/current-accounts/standard-current-account/
> 
> and in this PDF:
> [broken link removed]
> 
> Neither say anything about "internal BOI" transfers not counting.


 
As a few people have pointed out, BoI told customers that internal BoI transfers are counted. Hence, they mislead customers on this point.


----------



## PolkaDot

I agree. The important question is how have people been "told"? And by who exactly? There doesn't seem to be any official line on this from BOI.


----------



## bluemac

Just got my BILL from them
 lodged more than 3000 and  done 20dd, 8 credits, 16 standing orders  78 card transactions.

Bill is €34.44 that would be €140 a year

ahh I see where they have changed it DD do not count any more you have to do the payment manually online.. 

and i start to pay my credit cards off in full by DD I use to do it manually online...


----------



## marksa

Seesee said:


> perhaps it is time to move to UB. Is there a keypost on this?


 
+1, is there a key post on best-buy for Current Accounts? I presume it will still list ones which have fee free banking - UBL/NIB? Both AIB and BoI seem to be rowing back from fee free. 

Sunday Times has a best buy page each week and it lists sample best-buys...

UBL and NIB both offer "enhanced" current accounts - UBL have uFirst and uFrist Gold which have monthly fees, but have benefits such as reduced rate on mortgage/Personal loans. NIB have Prestige and Easy Plus which have quarterly fees and where the current account pays credit interest on any amount (not like the €1500 cap in BoI). So depending on your needs, the UBL or NIB offers may suit to pay a fee to have the overall benefits.


----------



## Lightning

Hi Seasaw and Mark, 

I have written 4 best buy threads on bank deposit accounts for the last few years including a current account one. 

The current account best buy thread is here: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=21774

Feedback on the threads are welcome. 

CT


----------



## theresa1

theresa1 said:


> Article in The Irish Mail on Sunday entitled "Crafty customers figure a way to beat BoI's new charges".
> Basically moving money from current a/c to savings a/c and back again and breaking up your credit card payment nine times as advised by a BOI agent.
> 
> The Regulator needs to intervene to stop this nonsense that customers will now be engaged in to avoid fees.


 


- 9 debit payments -end of story.


----------



## marksa

CiaranT said:


> Hi Seasaw and Mark,
> 
> I have written 4 best buy threads on bank deposit accounts for the last few years including a current account one.
> 
> The current account best buy thread is here: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=21774
> 
> Feedback on the threads are welcome.
> 
> CT


 
Hi Ciaran - yeah saw that you updated the thread yesterday, however it just really focusses on the one segment of the market that is concerned with fee-free banking. For those people who have regular average credit balances on their current accounts, it may be more cost-effective to pay a small fee as a trade-off to receive interest on the current account such as Prestige paying 1.75%. Either that or the ancillary benefits available through uFirst. Perhaps a different approach to the thread may be to have a "basic" current account best buy, and then a "premium" current account best buy. I believe AIB have a private banking current account as well but its not easy to get hold of details - only what the annual fee is.


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## bluemac

just made 9 payments of 5 euro online to my mbna credit card, that should see me around this for the next 3 months.. what a pain..


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## aoc3048

Stephanno said:


> It appears that transfer money from different BOI bank account won't work.
> I just received a fee notification statement, and despite having lodged more than 3000 euro and having done 24 365 transactions, mostly between two BOI accounts, I've been charged 17.36 euro.



Do payments to a credit card count as an external account?
I.e. credit card is Mastercard, but is provided by BoI, so not sure how it is treated.


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## theresa1

Yes - 9 debit payments internal or external is my understanding. The credit card you mention would be internal but it does not matter it's still a debit payment.

standing orders and direct debit's of any kind dont count.


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## Perplexed

_"Just got my BILL from them
 lodged more than 3000 and  done 20dd, 8 credits, 16 standing orders  78 card transactions.

Bill is €34.44 that would be €140 a year_ "


Bluemac:  If you don't want to do the online transactions ask your branch to change to the *Flat Fee* option (See T & C) which is €11.40 for up to 90 transactions per qtr. Any transactions over 90 would be charged at 28c per tx but I think you will find substantial savings. 
Based on your figures your last Fees would have been €20.36.   Still expensive, but it's an better option.


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## theresa1

"Any transactions over 90 would be charged at 28c per tx but I think you will find substantial savings."

Substantial savings? - 1 more credit (debit transaction) and Bluemac would have saved €34.44


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## mikerd4

Hi guys,

Just new here, joined to ask other questions but saw this and thought Id post.
I got a similar bill out the blue on Friday with charges of 44€ from BOI for using my account and accessing my money.  I asked at a branch (not my own) the girl said she could do nothing but told me to contact my branch and they should give me some money back.  I told her Id spoken to Ulster as afaik they dont charge and she said dont be hasty its a lot of hassle.  She said a lot people are complaining but to make 9 small transactions instead of one big one to the credit card for example.  She also said given the current situation the bank has to make some money somehwere!!!! I ppinted out that not only as a customer Im being shafted but Im a tax payer aswell but thats another argument!

To be honest Im totally p****d off with them, Ive banked with them for 8 years, Ive put heaven knows how much money through the accounts I have, the credit cards and loans.  Ive never missed a payment at all yet they are happy to charge me out the blue.

Sorry for the rant but I needed to get it off my chest.
Can anyone tell me how easy it is to actually switch banks?


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## Sunny

mikerd4 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Sorry for the rant but I needed to get it off my chest.
> Can anyone tell me how easy it is to actually switch banks?


 
It's very easy. The banks do all the work for you.


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## Time

If you actually trust them to do so. They can and do mess it up sometimes leaving you with no money in either account. 

You are best to do it yourself.


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## Sunny

Time said:


> If you actually trust them to do so. They can and do mess it up sometimes leaving you with no money in either account.
> 
> You are best to do it yourself.


 
I have done it a couple of times and never had an issue. You are more likely to mess up doing it yourself because of the amount of DD's etc involved and it is an absolute pain contacting all the different companies. It shouldn't take any more than 7 days so do it during a quiet preiod of the month in relation to direct debits. That way you have time to spot and rectify any problems.


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## dahamsta

You shouldn't need to contact the companies, the bank should handle all DDs and SOs automatically. They screw up sometimes, but generally speaking the majority of stuff goes through ok.


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## mikerd4

Cheers lads, going to ring BOI and see whther they will refund most if not all the money they charged me, depending on the outcome I could be switching to Ulster bank.  Really amazed BOI is will to mess around and potentially lose long term customers with silly fees like these, especially given the cureent climate


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## Fatphrog

At the moment, I'm trying to decide between messing around with this 9 payments nonsense (I pay all my bills by DD usually), and switching bank.

To be honest, that carry on with the sneaky bonuses in BOI, together with this, will make me switch account.


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## theresa1

This nine debits payment needs to be clarified - personally I believe it's internal and/ or external a/c's.


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## theresa1

9 debit payments include:-

bill payment, mobile phone top-up,Domestic money transfer (personally i'm taking it's ok to go from my current a/c to my savings a/c both with BOI), International money transfer (careful on this as other charges likely)


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## mayo exile

Fatphrog said:


> At the moment, I'm trying to decide between messing around with this 9 payments nonsense (I pay all my bills by DD usually), and switching bank.
> 
> To be honest, that carry on with the sneaky bonuses in BOI, together with this, will make me switch account.


 
Even if you pay your bills by DD, you can still use online banking to pay bits off these bills, giving you your 9 transactions. Just means your DD's will be smaller as these extra credits will be recognised. Was talking to someone at Bord Gais. They said you can do this.


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## Winifred

It says in my bill statement for my current account that internal transactions are not counted, I know the were before but now they aren't. Annoying!


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## Troy McClure

'Maintain a minimum balance of 3,000 EUR for the entire quarter. '

There was a leaflet with my statement and I didn't see this written on there. Have they tightened this further?


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## theresa1

Winifred said:


> It says in my bill statement for my current account that internal transactions are not counted, I know the were before but now they aren't. Annoying!


 


- I did not read this on any bill statements.

- You only need a minimum balance of €3,000 throughout the full fee quarter if you dont lodge at least €3,000 over the course of a fee quarter and make 9 debit payments (direct debits and standing orders dont count).

- Again internal transaction debit payments do count is my understanding.


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## pator

pator said:


> Just for those that are not changing bank these are the dates for charging quaters:
> Fee Calculation
> Period
> (Dates are inclusive)
> 22 Feb – 21 May 10
> 24 May – 20 Aug 10
> 23 Aug – 19 Nov 10
> 22 Nov – 18 Feb 11
> 21 Feb – 20 May 11​
> 
> Source - [broken link removed] ​
> ie need to do the nine transactions within those dates each quater​


 
Just a reminder that the current fee quarter ends on Saturday next the 19th so probably need to make sure the nine transactions are completed in the next day or so (to be sure they go through by Saturday) 

Next quarter starts on 22nd which is Tuesday so hold off doing transactions on Monday if you dont normally reach the nine.


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## ClubMan

Troy McClure said:


> 'Maintain a minimum balance of 3,000 EUR for the entire quarter. '
> 
> There was a leaflet with my statement and I didn't see this written on there. Have they tightened this further?


See here - that's one option for avoiding transaction charges - the other being lodgement of €3K in the quarter and 9 online/phone debit transactions.

[broken link removed]


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## Hattrick

Thanks for the link clubman. How do you get around this? For number 1 below can you lodge 3000/9 9 times per quarter and send the money out to where it came from 9 times or less? I will be asking BOI this.

The reason is I have alot of Auto Payees setup in this account and do not want the hassle of moving this setup to another free banking bank as I am abroad. But I will if I have to  This is the only reason I am with BOI. It's not like the service they offer is any good anyhow(particularily their internet banking) 




> Lodging2 at least €3,000 to your Personal Current Account AND making 9 debit payments3 from that account using 365 phone and/or online over the course of a fee quarter4
> (This is the equivalent of a €1,000 net salary lodgement and 3 debit payments per month.)
> 
> OR
> Maintaining a minimum balance5 of €3,000 in your Personal Current Account throughout the full fee quarter.


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## ClubMan

Hattrick said:


> Thanks for the link clubman. How do you get around this?


Get around what? The rules are clear enough as far as I can see and there are two separate strategies for avoiding transaction charges. I'm not a BoI customer but have been helping a friend to meet the criteria for transaction free banking recently. I guess we'll know in a few weeks or so if it worked! The c. €30 that could be saved will help due to pressing financial circumstances.


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## ClubMan

pator said:


> Just a reminder that the current fee quarter ends on Saturday next the 19th so probably need to make sure the nine transactions are completed in the next day or so (to be sure they go through by Saturday)
> 
> Next quarter starts on 22nd which is Tuesday so hold off doing transactions on Monday if you dont normally reach the nine.


Note that the charges (fees and interest) are actually applied to the a/c a month later (section 7):

[broken link removed]


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## pator

ClubMan said:


> Note that the charges (fees and interest) are actually applied to the a/c a month later (section 7):
> 
> [broken link removed]


 
Yip, thats how it works, 
mine was just a reminder to do the transactions within the dates as a deadline was approaching.


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## ClubMan

pator said:


> Yip, thats how it works,
> mine was just a reminder to do the transactions within the dates as a deadline was approaching.


Sorry - wasn't second guessing you. Just that I was checking for a friend if charges had been levied and realised that there was a difference between the dates when they calculated the charges and when they billed them.


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## seantheman

Time to play the 9 transaction silly game again. If you haven't played yet the closing date for entries to this quarter's event is Feb 17th.


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## Lightning

Thanks for posting a reminder to all.


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## ninak

Hi, does anyone have the end of quarter dates for 2012? I see the first is the 17th from the above posting. Just want to put in a reminder for the others in the year. Thanks.


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## ninak

Never mind, I just realised its the weekend closest to the 21st of the months in question. Have it now.


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## Lightning

It is shocking that BoI call their fees "quarterly fees" but yet don't follow a calendar quarter.


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## Marion

I agree CiaranT

It is really annoying and disingenuous of the bank to call them quarterly fees.

22 Feb – 21 May 10
24 May – 20 Aug 10
23 Aug – 19 Nov 10
22 Nov – 18 Feb 11
21 Feb – 20 May 11


I have tried to capture the dates for 2012 but I'm having difficulty with their PDF files. So I presume that these dates are adequate?

Marion


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## seantheman

Fee Calculation
Period
Interest Calculation
Period Fees and Debit
Interest Applied​Dates are inclusive​​​​​​​​​
21 Nov 11 – 17 Feb 12
20 Feb 12 – 18 May 12
21 May 12 – 17 Aug 12
20 Aug 12 – 16 Nov 12

​


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## Joe Nonety

Now that this has been in effect a few months can I confirm it's not 9 direct debits a 1/4 but 9 online payments to e.g. credit card, phone, gas, etc. will do as well?


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## PolkaDot

Yes 9 online transactions made manually to a credit card or other bill is acceptable.


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## Renter7

This has probably been asked but could I confirm;

9 payments to a boi credit card are acceptable to pass 9 online payments test? This would seem utterly bonkers.


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## Time

It sure is.


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## PolkaDot

9 payments to another BOI current account (e.g. your wife or mate or whoever) is acceptable to satisfy the criteria.


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## Joe Nonety

Presumably a direct debit to a Savings or Investment fund wouldn't count?


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## Jazz01

direct debits / standing order do not count... just manual transfers on line from one bank account to another account via banking 365 facility... even if they are for 1 cent each...


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## seantheman

mobile phone top up's through 365 count as well


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## seantheman

seantheman said:


> Fee Calculation​
> Period
> Interest Calculation
> Period Fees and Debit
> Interest Applied​​​​​​Dates are inclusive
> 21 Nov 11 – 17 Feb 12
> 20 Feb 12 – 18 May 12
> 21 May 12 – 17 Aug 12
> 20 Aug 12 – 16 Nov 12​


 
Lads & Lasses,
nine transactions should be completed by next Friday 18/05/12


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## Lightning

Seantheman - Thanks for posting the reminder that will help so many people avoid charges.


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## Toby

CiaranT said:


> The gradual erosion of free banking continues.
> 
> According to an advertisement in The Irish Times today, from February 21st 2011: BOI customers must ...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, it is not wise to maintain large credit balances in a current account.




Can i ask why its so bad to leave 3k in a current account as I have in a boi account. If you want to be able to access it easily? Any better suggestions? Im clueless about financial stuff. Thanks


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## Boyd

You get little or no interest on the 3K in a current account is the problem, so its losing you money.

Also, how often do you really need to access 3K easily?


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## Lightning

Exactly. Also, as you need a minimum of 3,000 EUR in your account each and every day, you are likely to need to keep a much higher average balance to ensure that you do not drop below 3,000 EUR on any day. Your money could be earning 4%+ elsewhere.


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## Joe Nonety

PolkaDot said:


> 9 payments to another BOI current account (e.g. your wife or mate or whoever) is acceptable to satisfy the criteria.


 
Would 9 online payments to a non-BOI current account count?


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## Lightning

Joe Nonety said:


> Would 9 online payments to a non-BOI current account count?



Yes.


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## aamusername

*Irish Times article today*

All,

There is an article in the Irish Times today which says:

"Possibly as some kind of marketing ploy, the Bank of Ireland is touting a “no transaction fees” offer.The  deal here is that you have to maintain a balance of €3,000 in your  current account for the duration* and* run at least €3,000 through the  account per quarter (say, your salary), as well as contrive to manually  perform nine payments, to qualify for free banking."


Does anyone know if this is a mistake or are there further changes being brought in my BOI with regard to free banking?  (I can't post links yet, hence the lack of a link!)


Thanks


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## Lightning

It's a mistake by The Irish Times. Terrible article by The Irish Times. 

The Indo have made the exact same mistake before as well.


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## aamusername

Thanks a million CiaranT.  I was afraid I had missed something and I'm pretty determined to avoid paying bank charges for as long as I can.


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## smiley

aamusername said:


> Thanks a million CiaranT.  I was afraid I had missed something and I'm pretty determined to avoid paying bank charges for as long as I can.



I dont think its going to be very long before we start to pay charges again..its a matter of a very short length of time i guess.


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## Joe Nonety

I reckon BOI will wait a few months until a glut of AIB and UB customers have switched over to them and then get rid of free banking.


----------

