# EBS Tracker mortgages | Review?



## JL77 (20 Mar 2017)

Hi there - wondering if anyone has had any success with EBS related to reinstatement of tracker mortgages? I see a number of posts here with queries similar to mine. I had a tracker, fixed and was not offered the tracker back. The wording on the contract was vague 'applicable variable rate' and a % over the ECB rate for the lifetime of the loan. 

Interested in any feedback - Thanks


----------



## Truffade (23 Mar 2017)

I am also interested.

My facts are as follows:


Took out a mortgage with EBS in 2004 on a teaser 1 year fixed rate.
Went onto a tracker rate of ECB + 1.05% in 2005, when the teaser rate expired.
In Dec 2006, we chose to fix for 5 years at 4.84% (seems insane in retrospect but ECB base rate was then 3.25% and rising).
In Dec 2011, we came off fixed and were put onto the SVR.
I keep a careful record of all correspondence with EBS. There was no advice from them when we went fixed that we would revert to SVR on completion of the fixed period.
I have sent in a subject access request to them for copies of all documentation sent\signed at that time. Awaiting receipt of same.

The failure to revert to tracker in Dec 2011 has certainly cost me a lot of money. Not to mention potential future savings. I rang them last year and they said our mortgage was not included in the review - no reason supplied.

I'd be very open to sharing experiences\advice with anyone here in a similar situation with a view to pressurising EBS on this. Would also love to hear from anyone who succeeded in getting their tracker restored by EBS in similar circumstances.

If I am flogging a dead horse, so be it. But if there is a chance of restoration, I am more than happy to put the effort in to try and realise that.


----------



## Truffade (24 Mar 2017)

Surely it should be possible for someone to review the facts of their own case vs actual successful cases (names and personal information redacted obviously) somewhere online?

I have no idea if I have a case or not and I can't find any online resource that tells me. Does anyone know if such a resource exists?


----------



## Truffade (24 Mar 2017)

I contacted EBS on their tracker mortgage helpline (1800 235 461) this morning.

The guy on the end of the line said that the review was still ongoing and was vague about when it would be completed but that it sounded like my case should certainly be covered by the scope of the review. 
He said that there were two types of forms used for conversion to fixed in 2006 and he would need to pull up the history to find out which one it is.

A call back was promised. Not holding my breath! I will keep you posted....


----------



## Bikini Widow (24 Mar 2017)

Hi All,

I am also in the EBS Redress _mist/fog_.
- Helpline was no help
- No idea if they will review my case.  
- Last December I engaged service of Padraic Kissane and hopeful some positive movement will happen this year. 
- EBS also sent me the attached when asked to confirm if I was in redress scheme

Tried to insert as image but not working / will figure it out later







Many thanks
BW


----------



## Truffade (24 Mar 2017)

They called back very quickly.

They found my fixed rate conversion form.

There is a 'DECLARATION' section which reads:

*I/We wish to convert the balance of my/our loan account to a fixed rate for next 5 years

I/We understand that when this period has expired the loan will revert to the applicable variable rate then prevailing.
*
This seems like bad news. Unless the argument can be made that the implications of this were not explained to us (which they were not). 

Has anyone got a similar wording on their fixed rate conversion form?


----------



## JL77 (26 Mar 2017)

Hi Truffade

That is the wording that was used on the fixed rate conversion form. The 'applicable variable rate' is in my opinion vague as my contract states that the rate will remain 1.25% above the ECB for the lifetime or duration of the loan. Therefore some might say that the 'applicable variable rate' is the one stated in the contract. I too was not warned or advised that I would loose the tracker by fixing. However there was a section in the mortgage application form which states that you could loose your tracker once fixed. I think that this also said that you could fix once without penalty. As I went through a broker I never saw this section of the application form and it was not included in my mortgage pack. My solicitor did not see it. 

I think that EBS are using this section of the application form as a 'reason' for not reinstating peoples trackers. I find the way EBS dealt with me to be totally unacceptable.


----------



## Bikini Widow (27 Mar 2017)

I have same wording and EBS helpline manager basically told me as I had signed the fixed form with this wording i had not been identified as an impacted person.

I suspect there may be many more EBS folk who signed this form with for me very ambiguous contract eirfi

Best wishes,
BW


----------



## Truffade (27 Mar 2017)

Is anyone aware of similar cases from the other banks tracker reviews?


----------



## JL77 (29 May 2017)

Hard to get any concrete advice on EBS! Some get trackers back others don't. Makes sense - NO.


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (30 May 2017)

The loan application form is not referred to as part of the loan agreement in our case ( nor was it attached to it)and in our case predated the loan agreement( suspect the same fir others)  , our loan agreement which stated that the tracker was for the life of the mortage , I view the tracker as for the life of the loan and my contract rate , i.e. Tracker is the prevailing rate . Ebs said all loans that are trackers being reviewed on the phone but they have in writing made generalised statements about all trackers when I asked for it In writing that I am part of the review . We have decided to alert the central bank so we are included in the review and certain of it  , suggest others do the same without delay .


----------



## Bikini Widow (1 Jun 2017)

Hi I have the exact same contract wording as Truffade and working on issue with EBS through Padraic Kissane.  Have to mention Padriac  and his office are great and would recommend their service to anybody suffering with EBS.

Many thanks,
BW


----------



## Frecklesa (13 Jun 2017)

Hi bikini widow, I also have the same wording as yourself and truffade , have not sought any professional advice as I was presuming it was a lost cause at this stage after FO agreed with the bank when we submitted an appeal . I know terms of reference have changed since FO decision , does Padraic Kissane think you have a case. Don't want  want any specific details but if he thinks you have some chance of tracker return I may get in contact with him also . Thanks in advance


----------



## Bikini Widow (14 Jun 2017)

Hi Frecklesa,
I would give his office a call and discuss options.  
What worked for me was I went in with all my documentation and they reviewed and explained why they thought I had a case.  For this initial assessment there was no charge.  

Hope this helps,
BW


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (14 Aug 2017)

Hi there , 
Just wondering if ebs mortgage holders with tracker on their loan agreement ( but signed pre loan application letter about losing tracker  if fixed , but no mention of this letter on loan agreement ,which post dates application form ) when fixed who couldn't get tracker back , have been returned to tracker and redressed . The treads seem quiet , I am not sure if this means everyone got the tracker back or are just too busy with life . If there is an update that would be useful . I haven't heard back from ebs and we are considering switching but this is holding us up . Would appreciate any update . Thanks


----------



## Frecklesa (15 Aug 2017)

Hi , December 2016 was the last correspondence we received from EBS.they just stated that they had made a decision that we were not entitled to return to the tracker rate but they also stated that they were looking at the accounts of customers under an industry wide tracker mortgage review." Should new information emerge that effects your account,we will contact you. In any event, we will write to you again when our tracker review is complete to confirm our position " .Have heard nothing since and am similar position to you - would like to switch but waiting for review to be complete .


----------



## John1973 (29 Aug 2017)

I'd suggest that even if you have received a letter saying you are no longer part of the redress review and you may have a case, to go through the Appeal process within EBS, and failing that to go through the Ombudsman
This is the correct channel in order to get your case looked at properly and guarantees a second set of eyes reviews your case


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (5 Sep 2017)

Hi , 
Has anyone any update on this . Any persons been redressed etc . Timelines etc ? Thanks


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (3 Oct 2017)

Just catching up on Bb CEO of aib performance at Oireachtas committee last week , so as ebs mortage that was tracker on contract , he seems to have said , I should be back at tracker , but no sign of this . Am I reading this right , they really try to wear you down with time . Appreciate is anyone has insight ?


----------



## dejected (5 Oct 2017)

Im in he same position and still waiting for an update!


----------



## Aidan.obrien (21 Oct 2017)

Hi all 
I too fixed with ebs and lost my tracker . I have received a letter from ebs saying I am not impacted from their tracker review. Again they cited the tracker application form as detailed in previous posts.
However my original mortgage  loan offer  document states the tracker is for the life of the loan! This tracker application form was completely separate from the original loan agreement.
My question is which is the legally binding document as both forms contradict each other. 


Any help from someone with a legal brain would be great before I go any further
Furthermore I believe ebs buy to let customers have gotten their trackers back just wondering what the difference is between those mortgages and ours?
Thanks


----------



## Bikini Widow (21 Oct 2017)

Hi Aiden,

I am in the exact same cohort and have left the issue in the hands of Padraic Kissane.
Would genuinely recommend you reaching out to Padraic.  It may also state in your loan document (if same as mine) that you can switch once without penalty

best wishes,
BW


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (2 Nov 2017)

Just a thought , no return to tracker yet , anyone any update if they have the words "tracker for the life of the loan "in loan agreement ? 
If someone from Aib is restored say 1 year before Ebs customer does that mean , that is viewed as unacceptable delay between the 2 so I as Ebs customer originally should be due extra compensation , as now I am AIB customer but unacceptable delay and an discrimminated on the basis of EBs ? Note if it ever happens . .. I note all the people I am now dealing with are a new generation , and don't seem to get it how unprofessional delay is , it is as if the culture in EBS is if you mention tracker redress it is ok to treat you badly . We went in with our queries re LTV as well as redress and the mortgage master assured us she would write in one week , neatly 4 weeks later ( I also asked for letter to be emailed also ) nothing . I wonder if I never had a mortage with them would they " not bother" replying for weeks ( my queries weren't just about  redress ). Disgraceful .


----------



## Frecklesa (3 Nov 2017)

We too lost our tracker and had the FSO agree with the bank . However our criteria means we should be included in the central bank review . Currently paying 3.7% svr. Seems the review is going to go on well into next year so we are continuing to lose money each month by being on that svr.  Just wondering if we were to fix at a lower rate with ebs for the next year would they deem us to have definitely left our tracker behind as we would then have fixed twice or if we fixed now would it be from the svr and the tracker review be separate .  Help line useless as they won't even confirm if we are included in the review . Just seems such a waste being stuck in limbo , unable to switch or get better rate in case we are impacted . Any views welcomed . Thanks


----------



## Nationaldude (7 Nov 2017)

I emailed info@mail.ebs.ie, gave them my a/c no. and simply asked if we were included in the review, 2 days later we received a letter in the post confirming we are.


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (14 Nov 2017)

Is there some news from Central bank I just caught RTÉ radio thanking Padraic kissane , not sure what it was about . Rang ebs , the polite gent told me to wait till march 2018, frustrating , still won't clear up their CEO inaccuracy and by the sounds of it no one reported it as I requested to him and the communication office . The gent on the phone told he he had read my emails but after 10 mins it was clear he hadn't , very frustrating dealing with people with no level of professionalism or shame !


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (14 Nov 2017)

Oh and no answers also, no clarity on who has been redressed .


----------



## JL77 (16 Nov 2017)

I have been in contact with P Kissane's office - waiting for an update.


----------



## TrackerThieves (17 Nov 2017)

EbsLoannotrafor said:


> Is there some news from Central bank I just caught RTÉ radio thanking Padraic kissane , not sure what it was about . Rang ebs , the polite gent told me to wait till march 2018, frustrating , still won't clear up their CEO inaccuracy and by the sounds of it no one reported it as I requested to him and the communication office . The gent on the phone told he he had read my emails but after 10 mins it was clear he hadn't , very frustrating dealing with people with no level of professionalism or shame !


found it on rte radio1, drivetime tue 14th nov(cant add links yet), he was on talking about the central bank starting an enforcement investigation into AIB


----------



## RajR (11 Dec 2017)

We also fixed during early 2007 for 3 years and lost the tracker. Same situation as many of you. EBS point us to the the tracker application form and the fixed rate conversion form. In my view, the wording is very ambiguous as the loan offer letter says the rate basis as "Variable (ECB rate + fixed margin). We also went through a broker to get the mortgage, so didn't have even copies of the loan documentation. I had to request these from EBS couple of years back. Again, we had no advise/information/warning from EBS pre/post fixing the rate on the implications.

I contacted Padraic Kissane few years back and he's been following up on our case since. Spoke to Padraic recently and it seems all cases identified and accepted for redress so far by banks are relatively straight forward cases and cases like ours (disputed cases or not identified as impacted cases) may not be looked into until sometime in 2018. I would suggest anyone who hasn't contacted Padraic so far to do so, as having more similar cases collectively could strengthen the argument with the banks.


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (5 Jan 2018)

Interesting change of tone letter from ebs/aib , profusely sorry for delay etc , no decision re impacted or not , expected decision in few months , will write again in 28 days etc ...Referred to help line queries from 9 th Nov , no mention original complaint stretches back years !! As if this is a first query , I think I will write to point out not the case . This  Time definitely consilatory, perhaps trying to minimise compensation if I am deemed impacted ???... anyone out there returned to tracker from ebs who fixed ?


----------



## Bikini Widow (8 Jan 2018)

After becoming despondent with the EBS Tracker Helpdesk I started engaging with the AIB customer Service via Twitter (as was unhappy with scripted responses).  

After a few days I think I hit a nerve as I got two calls from a 'deputy team Lead' who went off script and confirmed AIB / EBS are taking the legalistic approach on any person who signed their form way back when moving from tracker to fixed.

https://twitter.com/_pauler_/status/947462438252924928


Not saying going through twitter is best approach but at least it made them pick up the phone.

Best wishes,
BW


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (8 Jan 2018)

Thank you Bw, 
Is this not unfair treatment of Ebs customers who are now part of Aib ? I complained nearly 3 years ago , this is very frustrating to hear they are only looking at this now . When and if I am redressed , the compensation has to reflect the unfair treatment of me as an ebs customer compared with aib customer over those 3 years .


----------



## EbsLoannotrafor (8 Jan 2018)

My husband has an account with aib , I might Perdue that way . Surely way ebs legalistic way if the aib similar customer is redressed , they are treating customers from ebs unfairly and this needs to be highlighted .


----------



## RajR (8 Jan 2018)

thanks BW for the update. That shows that their attitude (EBS/AIB) hasn't changed a bit as EBS had rejected our complaint few years back giving the same reason. I wonder if the cohort of such EBS customers is relatively small and they expect we won't be able to fight the case legally given the legal costs!?? totally unfair! Meanwhile, had lodged a complaint with EBS helpline on 29th Dec and received a letter advising the review is still ongoing and they will write to us every 28 days or earlier with an update.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (8 Jan 2018)

Guys - there were two separate thread on this. 

I opened a new one after the Dec update 

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ebs-update-dec-2017.206486/#post-1548434


----------

