# In negative equity and leaving house



## billybound (10 Aug 2010)

Hi, a friend is in 80k euros negative equity. He has been offered a job abroad. If he leaves the house and hands back the keys, how do the bank recover money.


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## aristotle (10 Aug 2010)

You cannot just walk into the bank and hand in the keys.

Basically if the mortgage is not payed there will be a long legal process where eventually the bank will repossess the house and a judgement will be made against the person. The bank will sell the property and the person will still owe the bank the different between the mortgage outstanding and what the bank got for the house when it was sold.

You cannot just walk away from your debts.


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## jhegarty (10 Aug 2010)

They will sell the house.

But as they will be after a quick sale he will be lots more than 80k short. 

They will then follow him through the courts to get the money back. Given the amounts involved he will have to go a long way to hide from them (outside eu). And never return to Ireland , even for a visit.


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## Shelleyb (10 Aug 2010)

You cannot walk away from you debts unless you are David Drumm.


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## redbhoy (10 Aug 2010)

Shelleyb said:


> You cannot walk away from you debts unless you are David Drumm.


 
Yes. Only certain people can walk away from debts. Mayeb we all can but we just dont know the rules as well as some connected people.


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## Joe Q Public (10 Aug 2010)

jhegarty said:


> They will sell the house.
> 
> But as they will be after a quick sale he will be lots more than 80k short.
> 
> They will then follow him through the courts to get the money back. Given the amounts involved he will have to go a long way to hide from them (outside eu). And never return to Ireland , even for a visit.


There would be no harm returning for a visit. It is a civil matter and not criminal so the Gardaí would have no involvement. 
If he ever became resident here again it would come back to haunt him. 


> They will then follow him through the courts to get the money back.


From a realistic point of view it would be a waste of time as they would have very little real prospect of ever getting the difference back.


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## billybound (10 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> There would be no harm returning for a visit. It is a civil matter and not criminal so the Gardaí would have no involvement.
> If he ever became resident here again it would come back to haunt him.
> From a realistic point of view it would be a waste of time as they would have very little real prospect of ever getting the difference back.


 
With what resources do the banks use to try and recover the money and is the debt there forever or is it cleared after a set amount of time.


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## jhegarty (10 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> There would be no harm returning for a visit. It is a civil matter and not criminal so the Gardaí would have no involvement.
> If he ever became resident here again it would come back to haunt him.



That's a big assumption to make.

A judge can order a bench warrant when he doesn't turn up for the case.


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## Tessi (10 Aug 2010)

Hi billybound

I'm sorry i can't help you regards to Irish laws but I know of someone who had the same problem in England back in the early ninties.  They posted back the keys to their mortgage lender and told them they had left the country etc.   They did receive a letter from a debt collection company about 5 years later.  The original neg equity would have been approx €10,000 at most if house was sold but by the time the letter came it had increased to €50,000.  On the advice of a solicitor here, they ignored it and have not heard anything since and that is 12 yrs ago.

Dont take too much notice of people telling you that you can't ignore your debt. Of course you can, its intirely up to you to decide whether this is the best way to go or not.  This country is massively corrupt in a legal kind of way and to be honest I for one am sick of being walked on.  My heart goes out to all the innocent people trying to do what s best as I have been 100% honest all my life and it has only sent me into misery.  

That just how I'm left feeling.

Good luck with your new journey


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## Joe Q Public (10 Aug 2010)

Well the judgement would be enforceable for 12 years. After that it would be gone. 

The banks would get a judgement, then use the sheriff to seize goods (highly unlikely in the case of a private person for €80k plus). This would typically be followed by an application for an instalment order. A judge would decide if you can pay and how much you have to pay each month. If you failed to pay they could seek to commit you to prison. However if you can't pay you can't pay and the bank would have to back off and leave you alone.


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## Joe Q Public (10 Aug 2010)

jhegarty said:


> That's a big assumption to make.
> 
> A judge can order a bench warrant when he doesn't turn up for the case.


Not for a civil case. And a commital warrant cannot be sought until such time as a judgement is obtained, an installment order made and a commital hearing held. Also the bank would have to prove proper service of court documents on the debtor. Impossible if he is not located within the state. Without proper service it will not get beyond obtaining a judgement. I would even be doubtful if the High Court would grant judgement where the debtor had not been served. 

The Gardaí do not maintain a list of such debtors at the airports.


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## billybound (10 Aug 2010)

Tessi said:


> Hi billybound
> 
> I'm sorry i can't help you regards to Irish laws but I know of someone who had the same problem in England back in the early ninties. They posted back the keys to their mortgage lender and told them they had left the country etc. They did receive a letter from a debt collection company about 5 years later. The original neg equity would have been approx €10,000 at most if house was sold but by the time the letter came it had increased to €50,000. On the advice of a solicitor here, they ignored it and have not heard anything since and that is 12 yrs ago.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the advice.
When you say your friend received a letter, how did the bank find their address?
Also after the 12 years, is the credit rating clean or are you still affected when applying for another mortgage.
Is it still possible to take out a mortgage in a different country.ie the debt does not travel outside of Ireland


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## aristotle (10 Aug 2010)

Tessi said:


> This country is massively corrupt in a legal kind of way and to be honest I for one am sick of being walked on. My heart goes out to all the innocent people trying to do what s best as I have been 100% honest all my life and it has only sent me into misery.


 
Thats great, its just what we need as a country...another "victim" with a defeatist attitude. This country is not massively corrupt and no one is walking on you.

Who are all these "innocent" people and who are the people walking on you?

Suggesting people should walk away from debt and leave it to be sorted out by others is just typical. You control your own destiny, not others.


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## Tessi (10 Aug 2010)

Hi billybound

He has no idea how they got hold of his address.  After the letter he did live at the same address for another year and then moved.  Yes he did get another mortgage here in ireland and loans etc etc.  It was the debt collector that tracted his address down and not the bank.


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## Tessi (10 Aug 2010)

aristotle said:


> You control your own destiny, not others.


 
I AGREE 100% and from now on I intend to do it my way.  I have tried it the honest way for half my life and because I put the trust in the people that were voted in to protect us and manage the country I have been left with nothing.  

Some may say that people should not walk away from debt but walking away from debt when one has nothing else to lose is to me far less of a crime than that committed by those people in authority that made detremential neglectful decisions that resulted in the direct or indirect cause of the economy collapse we see today. 

 ARE those people living in fear of their sanity.  Are they living in fear of how they are going to cope day to day, where they are going to be living next week/month.  How they are going to afford to drive their kids to school when their old car packs in and they can't afford a new one.  I could go on but the people who will mostly understand unfortunately will be the people who are living a similar experince.  I say mostly, because I do know some people who are not in a bad situation but can see why some people just have to get up and go.


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## z107 (11 Aug 2010)

> Thats great, its just what we need as a country...another "victim" with a defeatist attitude. This country is not massively corrupt and no one is walking on you.
> 
> Who are all these "innocent" people and who are the people walking on you?


Did you miss all the news reports about Nama, and Anglo Irish bank etc?
In my opinion, we will only find out the truth about Anglo in many years time. 

Anyway, if walking away from the 80k debt only means a judgement that lasts 12 years (when you'll be out of the country anyway), then it's a no-brainer.


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## lightswitch (11 Aug 2010)

Tessi said:


> I AGREE 100% and from now on I intend to do it my way. I have tried it the honest way for half my life and because I put the trust in the people that were voted in to protect us and manage the country I have been left with nothing.
> 
> Some may say that people should not walk away from debt but walking away from debt when one has nothing else to lose is to me far less of a crime than that committed by those people in authority that made detremential neglectful decisions that resulted in the direct or indirect cause of the economy collapse we see today.
> 
> ARE those people living in fear of their sanity. Are they living in fear of how they are going to cope day to day, where they are going to be living next week/month. How they are going to afford to drive their kids to school when their old car packs in and they can't afford a new one. I could go on but the people who will mostly understand unfortunately will be the people who are living a similar experince. I say mostly, because I do know some people who are not in a bad situation but can see why some people just have to get up and go.


 
I agree with you 100%.  The only way there will be "NAMA" for the little people is if they take it.


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## redbhoy (11 Aug 2010)

What would happen if everyone who had deposits or current accounts with the government propped banks BOI and Anglo were to take their money and accounts and switch them to a different bank??


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## lightswitch (11 Aug 2010)

The Govt would probably give them more of our money to prop them up, just like Anglo


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## redbhoy (11 Aug 2010)

lightswitch said:


> The Govt would probably give them more of our money to prop them up, just like Anglo


 
I was hoping the two banks would collapse and then the government shortly afterwards. 
Then any incomign government would be afraid of the people instead of vice versa.


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