# Let go after period of illness. (long story)



## celticsteven (13 Sep 2011)

Hi folks looking to use all your knowledge, i'm devastated this evening after been let go. Its a complicated story but will make it as clear as possible.

Started with company in the Autumn of 2007, no problems recieved employee of the month numerous times and never missed a day, always did overtime no questions asked and any extra bits and pieces that needed doing, never recieved any overtime pay ever was happy enough to help out when needed.

July 2009 broke my leg outside of work had 2 operations and was back working after 8 weeks, never recieved any sick pay and had never missed a days work till this accident, i had 100% attendance record. Claimed social welfare sick pay.

Then the start of 2010 i broke my ankle in work carrying a heavy load upstairs, i complained on numerous occasions about carrying stuff up these stairs as they were old skinny and dangerous, i was told to get on with it that employees had always carried the same loads up these stairs, hadn't much of a choice, its kinda one of these places, if you don't do it i will find someone who will. Was out for 6 weeks unpaid while ankle healed and claimed social welfare.

Then early this year 2011 fractured my shin bone in work, was walking past a rental van reversed into the warehouse, it was on hire to our company, was walking past talking to my manager about the day ahead and then smack, smashed my leg of a big towbar on back of the van, towbar was about 2-3 foot long was like something to pull big compressors or generators.

Once again out of work but this time way more complicated as i had several spiral fractures and bits of bone everywhere. I'm still out of work with it but was expecting to return to work in next 2 weeks, doctors wouldn't let me back as leg wasn't fully healed. Yet again unpaid and claiming social welfare sick pay.

Today my phone rings and to cut through the bull, i'm been let go as they don't feel medically i'd be up to it. I told them the doctors have said once i regain a level of fitness and build some muscle on the leg i will be 100%. Just a couple of freak accidents thats beyond belief, ive never broken a bone in my body before.

My part of the job is very quiet and blah blah blah, they have told me i'm entiteld to nothing no redundancy or anything, no holiday pay, nothing. I said that can't be right i'm nearly 4 years with the company, 2 accidents were no fault of my own and i think i've done the decent thing, i didn't run to a solicitor and bang in a claim, i valued my job more than that. I'm also a member of siptu if thats any use.

Folks if you could give me a dig out here and tell me if i'm entitled to anything, this is a worldwide well known company, i was a full time 40hr a week employee.

Thanks for reading and all advice,help,links or comments welcome.


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## Leper (13 Sep 2011)

You posed a long question.  You have been unfairly treated and dismissed with no grounds for appeal.

Just talk to your solicitor (you'd be stupid not to) and compensation will come sooner or later. If what you're saying is true, you are on to some winner.


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## celticsteven (13 Sep 2011)

Leper i understand what your saying but its not an avenue i want to go down. I just want to know if i have any entitlements to redundancy or any other payment. Everything is 110% accurate and followed all the rules regarding sick notes and doctors reports.

I'm only looking for what i'm entitled to, i've no interest in claiming personal injury against the company.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Sep 2011)

Hi Steven,

Sorry to hear about this what appears to be unfair treatment by your employer.

Contact your trade union, SIPTU, as this is exactly what you pay your union dues for.

You could also ring these people [broken link removed] and check out your rights with them.

You may get some further information on www.citizensinformation.ie on matters like redundancy etc.


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## serotoninsid (13 Sep 2011)

celticsteven said:


> Leper i understand what your saying but its not an avenue i want to go down.


IF what you say is true - you would be foolish not to!!  You can't let them away with this - if the scenario was exactly as you described in your first post.  You need to take legal advise immediately.  There's probably a statue of limitations with these things - so don't procrastinate - make that appointment first thing in the morning.  It will give you the opportunity to discuss a a number of concerns - as there are a few given what you have posted.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Sep 2011)

serotoninsid said:


> You need to take legal advise immediately.



Rather than run into legal costs yourself let SIPTU meet the bill, back to that's what you pay your union dues for.


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## celticsteven (13 Sep 2011)

Thanks folks i will get on to siptu first thing tomorrow, i was a van driver and have never had dealings with siptu before, is there a certain department i contact. Thanks for all your advice and if there is anything else i'm all ears.

This has come as a real blow as my goal was to get back to work and feel good about myself and getting back to work. I think it still hasn't sunk in, not a nice way to do it over the phone when you have given your very best to a company for 4 years.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Sep 2011)

Hi Steven,

You should have a representative for your particular company and you may find something useful here http://www.siptu.ie/divisions/

If they are in a particularly busy section they may drag their heels in dealing with the matter so it important that you assert yourself and make an appointment to see them as soon as possible.


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## serotoninsid (13 Sep 2011)

Sue Ellen said:


> Rather than run into legal costs yourself let SIPTU meet the bill, back to that's what you pay your union dues for.


Agreed - assuming said company was unionised....many are not.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Sep 2011)

celticsteven said:


> I'm also a member of siptu if thats any use.


Hi Sid,

Steven is a member of SIPTU so hopefully that will help his case.


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## becky (14 Sep 2011)

You do seem to have a very strong case for unfair dismissal.  If you look into the links and type in unfair dismissal you will see you can lodge a case to a Rights Commsionner or Employment Appeals Tribunal.

You're employer will need to put it in writing and issue a p45 if applicable.  You should see if you need to inform social welfare.

Read page of this link (both sites are good), it's very clear on what an employer is expected of an employer to prove a dismissal is fair.

[broken link removed]

I'd contact the union like sue ellen said and take it from there.


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## serotoninsid (14 Sep 2011)

Are employers not obliged to report work related accidents to the HSA?  If so, did they do so?


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## Mpsox (14 Sep 2011)

This case is not as simple as some people seem to think

Firstly an employer has no obligation to employ someone if they are physically incapable of doing the job. In this case, this seems to be the view of the employer. However, normally, there would be a process to go through to verify this, including sending the employee to a company doctor (no indication that this has or hasn't happened) and then make a decision from there. Therefore they may have been within their rights to let the employee go, albeit it was done without following due procedure. Remember as well that people are not made redundant, roles are.

The fact that 2 of the accidents happened at work weakens the companies case. They are under no obligations to pay sick pay(OP should check his contract on this) but they have significant obligations under Health and Safety legislation. For example
-Did the OP receive any manual handling or health and safety training?
-were the work related accidents reported in line with legislation?
-were accident reports filled out and has the OP seen them?

I do wonder in this situation that the employee may not be entitled to redundancy but may be entitled to compensation for his injuries, loss of earnings as a result of the time off and future loss of earnings due to the damage caused by his inability to work and the damge to his working reputation

By all means, go to the union on this (assuming the company recognises the union) but there is also nothing to stop the company telling a union rep to take a running jump. Therefore, there may be a need to get a proper employment law solicitor involved at some stage


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## Sue Ellen (14 Sep 2011)

Mpsox said:


> Therefore, there may be a need to get a proper employment law solicitor involved at some stage



Is there an obligation on the union to do this on their members behalf?


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## Mpsox (14 Sep 2011)

Sue Ellen said:


> Is there an obligation on the union to do this on their members behalf?


 
I wouldn't have thought there is an obligation. My own experience of dealing with unions is that the service you get is dependent on the quality of the union rep involved. Some are very competent, some are useless


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## Sue Ellen (14 Sep 2011)

Mpsox said:


> I wouldn't have thought there is an obligation. My own experience of dealing with unions is that *the service you get is dependent on the quality of the union rep involved.* Some are very competent, some are useless



My experience also.  One needs to read up on one's rights to the best of your ability, be assertive but not demanding and make sure you stay on their radar.


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## liaconn (15 Sep 2011)

I would get on to NERA if I were you.

It sounds like your employer is in breach of both employment rights legislation and health and safety legislation.


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## Murfnm (15 Sep 2011)

Do companies have to have health and safety  policies?  Doesnt sound like a very safe place to work, just because people have put up with a rickety stairs, doesn't mean it would pass a health & safety check.


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## PaddyBloggit (15 Sep 2011)

Murfnm said:


> Do companies have to have health and safety  policies?  Doesnt sound like a very safe place to work, just because people have put up with a rickety stairs, doesn't mean it would pass a health & safety check.



Simple answer .... Yes they do. (by law)


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## csirl (16 Sep 2011)

Mpsox said:


> This case is not as simple as some people seem to think
> 
> Firstly an employer has no obligation to employ someone if they are physically incapable of doing the job. In this case, this seems to be the view of the employer. However, normally, there would be a process to go through to verify this, including sending the employee to a company doctor (no indication that this has or hasn't happened) and then make a decision from there. Therefore they may have been within their rights to let the employee go, albeit it was done without following due procedure. Remember as well that people are not made redundant, roles are.


 
Agree with Mpsox. This looks like a fitness to work rather than redundancy issue. On the fitness to work issue, some companies have rules whereby if you miss a certain number of days for medical reasons within a certain timeframe, you are automatically dismissed for medical reasons. Threshold is usually fairly high - several months in total. In may cases the threshold kicks in even if there are a series of unrelated non-permanent medical complaints - I've seen the view taken that even if complaints are short lived and unconnected, that the employee must have general health/fragility issues. It may be that something like this is in your contract of employment and you've breached the threshold. It may also be that because you've had 3 x broken leg/ankles within a very short period, that the company considers that there are issues with your legs/bones (though I would expect that they would need to get a medical opinion to confirm this in advance of dismissal).

As I've said, I dont think this is a redundancy issue. However, depending on liability, it may be a compensation issue - if you have been dismissed on medical grounds and the companies negligence is the cause of this dismissal, they may be liable for compensation. You would need to talk to a competent personal injury solicitor to get a view on this.


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## Art (16 Sep 2011)

You should take a case to the Equailty Tribunal on the basis that you were unfairly treated because of a disability i.e. that you were ill and that this is why they dismissed you. As other posters have said they do not have appeared to follow any kind of procedure to show that you were unable to do the work. If you google and look for a case of Kavanagh vs Aviance, you will see that the Tribunal made an award of €125,000 as they found that Mr Kavanagh was dismissed as a result of his disability. I have attached a brief synopsis of the case here.

[broken link removed]


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## Purple (16 Sep 2011)

The fact that the OP’s injuries and absence were the result of work accidents does change things.
I am very surprised that any employer would not give full pay while an employee is out on a work related injury (and be happy that they are not being sued) as they open themselves up to a claim for loss of earnings due to a work related injury.

On the face of it the employer has behaved disgracefully and very stupidly and has should a disgraceful lack of loyalty to an employee who has given them loyal service.
The OP should get in touch with their union first and have their rep outline (in writing) what they propose and then run this by their own employment solicitor. That’s the best way of gauging the quality of the advice being offered by the union.

If I was the OP I would;
1 Look for redundancy
2 Look for compensation for the two work related injuries, including the loss of earning incurred during their time off and pain and suffering.
3 Investigate if there are grounds for suing them for unfair dismissal.


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## Art (16 Sep 2011)

You cannot look for redundancy and take a case for unfair dismissal as they are mutually exclusive. The OP was dismissed because of his persistent injuries rather than a downturn in work. Accordingly a redundancy situation does not arise.


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## Purple (16 Sep 2011)

Art said:


> You cannot look for redundancy and take a case for unfair dismissal as they are mutually exclusive. The OP was dismissed because of his persistent injuries rather than a downturn in work. Accordingly a redundancy situation does not arise.



Thanks for the clarification.


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## onq (16 Sep 2011)

The OP has suffered injury on several occasions which could have long-lasting health implications and come against him in later life.

The OPs dismissal may have resulted partly from his comments about the  stairs, which is a health and safety issue and partly from his injuries,  all of which seem to be notifiable events.

It is possible that several of the OP's rights have been infringed upon and it  is possible that the employer has not fully discharged his duties under  the current legislation, particularly in relation to employees rights and health and safety at work.

The OP should consider engaging a solicitor from whom to seek general advice on making a claim[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] under any of the following headings[/FONT] to ensure he knows the pros and cons of the various approaches.


Health and Safety
Unfair Dismissal
Constructive Dismissal
The Common Law Offence of Wrongful Dismissal
When he is generally briefed, the OP should consider taking specific advice on taking a case through the Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Legislation.

NERA legislation concerns [broken link removed] and [broken link removed] and the information on the website is not all-inclusive and again the OP should be briefed.

ONQ.

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                  as a defence or support - in and of    itself  -         should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal professionals should be asked to advise in                                  Real Life with rights to inspect and issue          reports     on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## irishcharm (1 Nov 2011)

I too have been unfairly dissmissed  My boss had started to be aggressive and intimidated me every day until I got to a stage were I was afraid to carry out any work.
She changed the forms I had prepared online using my log in, making it look like I was not doing my work correctly, I had no say or reasoning with this woman she got her way in the end and I was dissmissed and have been conveniently replaced by her niece who has no experience were I have over 5 years. My life and career is ruined over this woman


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## Purple (1 Nov 2011)

Irishcharm, are you a member of a union?


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