# BMW Dealer Rip Off?



## bluemoon1 (20 Jun 2007)

Hi

I was wondering can I get some feedback as to whether I was ripped off or not. Yesterday I brought my 2004 316i BMW to a dealership to have its second service, it also required front brake pads.
When I went to collect car I was presented with a bill for €857.00 I nearly fell over in shock. The invoice listed service at €162 parts & oil for service €225 and front brake pads labour €100 and parts €280 plus vat.

Was I robbed cause I certainly feel like I have.......!!!!!


Thanks guys for your response, think it was a bit steep myself but its driving beautifully now. As a woman going into garage always feel a bit vulnerable cause its like double dutch to me and wonder sometimes do these guys pick up on that and hence the big prices. Have driven BMW for last 5yrs had many services but none at these prices... so suppose was just a bit shocked.


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## grizzcol (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

did u not get a quote from them before u handed the car over for a service?


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## Gabriel (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

Murphy and Gunn charge €150 labour ph as far as I'm aware.

Having a BMW serviced in a main dealership is always an expensive experience.


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## Gabriel (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*



Petermack said:


> I knew it would be expensive Gabriel but thats a fair whack per hour for labour.



It is...I agree...but it's not as if they hide it or anything.

This is what people go through to keep the FBMWSH


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## carpedeum (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

That is exactly the reason why I now drive a Toyota Avensis, instead of the past BMW's Volvo's, Alfa's etc! I have had to offload a much loved Volvo 940 2.3i turbo rocket for cost reasons! 

The Avensis is a boring car to drive, but, so reliable and unbelievably economical to run and maintain.

Backstreet garages are no longer cheaper either because of the cost of wholesale spares from the likes of BMW and the new fangled bespoke electronics.

Must qualify this by saying that I only saw the dimmer light when I turned 45!


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## tiger (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*



> thats a fair whack per hour for labour.


  Friend of mine got his BMW serviced once at a main dealer & when he got home there was a screw driver in the engine bay.  We calculated that the mechanics time to remove the screw driver & place it in the tool box would probably have cost more than the value of the tool


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## Mr2 (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

Looks like €100 an hour, but your maths doesn't make sence. Vat is 13.5%. I don't thinks it's bad. Your going to help keep up the re-sale price of your car by advertising the Full  BMWSH.

Always get a quote. Maybe if you can't afford the service, you should not be driving the car. We get this with M.B alot as well. People skimp and scrape to get into them and then when it comes to maintaining them they can't afford it. 

You have to pay for the better service and better Technicians. What's the difference between a 3* and 5* hotel. You know your going to pay more for the 5*, but you get to tell everyone you drive a BMW and people think you have money. 

Looks like you don't have money, the dealer has it now. Be smarter as the other people say above when buying a car next time and look at service cost and tyre cost etc. Buy what you can afford. Leave the richer life to those that can afford it.


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## RS2K (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

That is very expensive. An identical service and pads for a Focus would be c. €250 incl.

Ford dealers offer fixed menu servicing.


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## ford jedi (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

driving any 3 series bmw is hardly mignling with the rich and famous,
hate to say it bud but you were shafted,an oil change and set of pads for that money was way over the the top ,as for bmw oil thats a myth!! or mercedes oil, and top level technicans,, the only technicans doin that level of servicing in any main dealer are apprentices who may be lucky to be getting paid 10 euro an hour,

so that load of crap about  top level technicans working on your car and you having to pay for the privelage is just crap .youre simply paying for all those big shiny showrooms and all the fools who just seem to be standing around the big flash showroom in their new bmw jackets,,worked in main dealerships the past 15 years from apprentice to foreman and up,they are all the same.
the money isnt as good in sales as it was ,so now the service end is getting alot more lucretive,


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## jhegarty (20 Jun 2007)

*Re: BMW Dealer Rip Off !!!!!*

I just happen to have a BMW main dealer price list in front of me...all prices include vat....


3 Series e46

Oil Service 170
Front Break pads  180.85


So there is something not quite right on your bill ... what was the 280+vat parts relating to ?


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

€170 for an oil service is still a jokeshop.


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## Graham_07 (21 Jun 2007)

The OP mentioned brake pads. I would have expected to be advised before they did this. I have Mazda, and if brake pads needed they ring you, tell you how much and is it ok to proceed. In fact, at last service was advised of several items which would be needed to be done by time next service somes, including brake pads and timing belt. They wrote this on the invoice under " items to be aware of " and tehy also gave me approx costs so I can plan for it. ( incidentally have had Mazdas for years and wouldn't change from them ) The main dealer also charges €60/hr for labour Which I think in today's climate is acceptable.


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## Kendr (21 Jun 2007)

Have to say, although perhaps a little over the top, Mr. 2's post has got it absolutely right.

Just look at the Mazda, Toyota and Ford jocks joining in the discussion about how to maintain their mainstream wonders.

With regard to the title of the post though, surely the BMW dealer can't have ripped the OP off if they have carried out the work on the itemised worksheet?

Now if the OPs arguing it's a tad expensive, or more than he/she'd hoped to pay - it's be closer to the mark?

To be honest, for a second service with brakes it seems about right.  Try the BMW owners club forum - they have loads of pointers on cheaper but legit BMW servicing in Ireland - outside of the dealer network.


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

BMW sells more 3 series than Ford do Mondeos in the UK. It's hard to argue that BMW is anything but mainstream. A 316i is slow too btw.

BMW use the same oil, and similar parts as all other volume manufacturers. Their parts are no better.

An oil service could be carried out by a 1st year apprentice, or pehaps a receptionist.

So all in the price is outrageously high, and not justifiable. Some mugs will pay it however.


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## RonanC (21 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> BMW use the same oil, and similar parts as all other volume manufacturers. Their parts are no better.
> 
> An oil service could be carried out by a 1st year apprentice, or pehaps a receptionist.
> 
> So all in the price is outrageously high, and not justifiable. Some mugs will pay it however.


 
The oil for a BMW would cost about 20-30 euro and an oil filter no more than 10euro... It would also take a trained mechanic about 30mins at most to do an oil change. 

I would never ever bring my car or any car near a Main Stealer for a service.


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## Mr2 (21 Jun 2007)

As part of Main dealer standars only 4th year apprentice can do a first service and at that the service manager has to sign off on all his work.

You get a qualified technician, who checks lights/ levels, greese door locks, check suspension, engine , gearbox, windows, boot, spare wheel, adj, tyre pressure, checks brakes, coolant boiling point etc and the list goes on. If you get you car back from "fred in the shed" and it only takes a half an hour, do you think he has done everything? 

We get more repair work out of people who get private Technicians to do there service than we do from the cars we service. Fact is there not done to dealer standars. Even a Technician who has left a main dealer after only one year is not up to date with the systems and practises we use every day. 

One a week I get new service update's for M.B, for better maintained cars for our customers that stay in the dealer network. If your not in it you wont know and when a problem arises you suffer. 

It does take 30 mins to do an oil change, the rest is preventive maintaince, tightning and adjusting etc. How do you do something correct if you don't have a ramp or a cumputer to tell if you had a minor elec fault that the light flashed on and off and you thought nothing of it, but when we service it, it's stored.


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## Firefly (21 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> BMW sells more 3 series than Ford do Mondeos in the UK. It's hard to argue that BMW is anything but mainstream.


 
Comparing the sales from all BMWs with ONE Ford model hardly constitutes mainstream to me. If BMW sold as many cars as Ford, Toyota etc then I'd agree. Drive a BMW and then tell me they're mainstream. The 316 may not be the quickest I agree, but the handling, comfort and quality of materials will tell you why this car has been the top of it's class for the past 20 years.


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

RonanC said:


> The oil for a BMW would cost about 20-30 euro and an oil filter no more than 10euro... It would also take a trained mechanic *about 30mins at most to do an oil change*.
> 
> I would never ever bring my car or any car near a Main Stealer for a service.



It takes 5 minutes to change oil and filter.


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

Firefly said:


> Comparing the sales from all BMWs with ONE Ford model hardly constitutes mainstream to me. If BMW sold as many cars as Ford, Toyota etc then I'd agree. Drive a BMW and then tell me they're mainstream. The 316 may not be the quickest I agree, but the handling, comfort and quality of materials will tell you why this car has been the top of it's class for the past 20 years.



I'm not suggesting BMW are not a good car. 3 series sells more than Mondeo model range against model range.

They are a volume manufacturer. To suggest otherwise is simply misguided.


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## ford jedi (21 Jun 2007)

i may own a ford garage but but i drive a 911 so i have a good idea what prestge cars cost to run ,but sometimes things are a bit too rich for what you recieve.
i can agree one thing with mr2 any garage in this day and age who does not have top diagnostic equipment or good ramps and faciltys is not worth goin into. there  are alot of a small independent specialists out there too who have invested alot in equipment and are top technicans.but when you leave your can with someone whos working in the great outdoors and dosent have even a ramp you can accept that level of service.

you just really have to find a happy medium, of service and quality it may take a few trips to various garages to get that but price is not the ultimate answer.cheap is not always the answer ,but no one likes to feel like theyve been interferred with either


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

Mr2 said:


> As part of Main dealer standars only 4th year apprentice can do a first service and at that the service manager has to sign off on all his work.
> 
> You get a qualified technician, who checks lights/ levels, greese door locks, check suspension, engine , gearbox, windows, boot, spare wheel, adj, tyre pressure, checks brakes, coolant boiling point etc and the list goes on. If you get you car back from "fred in the shed" and it only takes a half an hour, do you think he has done everything?
> 
> ...



I simply do not believe any of this. Sorry. Technicians me eye. They are mechanics. My experience of all marques is that preventative maintenance is laughable. Problems are solved as they occur. The workshop manual may  list procedure after procedure, but this is Ireland.   

Not 1 of them in the country is worth €150 per hour either.


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## ford jedi (21 Jun 2007)

rs2k i have too agree ,,some people dont feel right unless there paying through the pecker for it so leave them at it


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## Firefly (21 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> I'm not suggesting BMW are not a good car. 3 series sells more than Mondeo model range against model range.
> 
> They are a volume manufacturer. To suggest otherwise is simply misguided.


 
Do you have the numbers for Ireland or bigger countries like the States, or is it just the UK and perhaps Germany? What about world stats for total Mondeo sales (or equiv) compared to 3 series?


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## ford jedi (21 Jun 2007)

but one thing i have to say there is a big difference between a technican and a mechanic,no average mechanic these days would have a clue with the level of electronics these days on vehicles but one thing you gotta remember is there is no technican in ireland getting 150,per hour the garage may be, but top technican would be lucky to get 20 per hour


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## Mr2 (21 Jun 2007)

Every market is different, you cant compare even England to us so please don't. Spec and engines that are over here compared to there are bought in different quanities so it's not the same.

RSK2: Please for the crack, take 5 mins from your day and let us know how far you get into changing the oil you get. Would you even have it on the ramp safetly and bonnet open? Get real.

Also do you work in a garage every day, do you see the training they go through each year. I'd say you and poss wife get a car serviced once a year or so, so your information is very limited to the experience you have had. And if you only go to a main dealer for problem work and not main line service experience as in my other post's on other threads, your already annoyed your car has broke down etc and now you have to wait
for a slot in the workshop and parts etc of course your not going to be thrilled about the experience.

To be honest if your buying a car for safety etc and a Technician is €150.00 per hour but I know that my family are going to get the best service I can get for them and the car will be right when I get it back I'd pay it. It goes the same for buying cheap tyres, brakes etc. 

I cant put a price on what my wife or family are worth but you can because your not willing to pay the best qualified person to service your car. And the best qualified person is a fully trained dealer technician.


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## Purple (21 Jun 2007)

ford jedi said:


> there is no technican in ireland getting 150,per hour the garage may be, but top technican would be lucky to get 20 per hour


 And if the technician got €150 an hour what would the garage use to pay the bills? The rate you pay your staff in a capital-intensive business should be somewhere between 20 and 25% of the hourly rate you charge. More than that and you risk being eaten by your competitors, less and you risk going out of business. 
Therefore if the mechanic or technician (to me a technician would be less skilled than a mechanic) is getting €20 an hour then the punter should be charged €80 - €100 an hour for labour. 
Main dealers who are required to carry high levels of stock and/or have big mortgages on their spanking new showrooms may need to charge at a higher multiple.


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## RS2K (21 Jun 2007)

Mr2 said:


> Every market is different, you cant compare even England to us so please don't. Spec and engines that are over here compared to there are bought in different quanities so it's not the same.
> 
> RSK2: Please for the crack, take 5 mins from your day and let us know how far you get into changing the oil you get. Would you even have it on the ramp safetly and bonnet open? Get real.
> 
> ...



I change the oil in the classic car myself. It takes me 10 minutes tops. No ramps are needed, but I use a trolley jack and axle stands for convenience. 

A "technician" (or indeed a receptionist) would take even less time using a proper lift.

BMW must love you. Happy to pay €150 per hour for a spanner monkey 

What training do you need to change oil/filter or brake pads?


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## rabbit (21 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> I simply do not believe any of this. Sorry. Technicians me eye. They are mechanics. My experience of all marques is that preventative maintenance is laughable. Problems are solved as they occur. The workshop manual may list procedure after procedure, but this is Ireland.
> 
> Not 1 of them in the country is worth €150 per hour either.


 
Well said.  This is rip off Ireland.   full stop.


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## diarmuidc (22 Jun 2007)

Mr2 said:


> I cant put a price on what my wife or family are worth but you can because your not willing to pay the best qualified person to service your car. .



Whether you like it or not you put a price on your family, Now you might claim that it's a higher price than the target of your rant puts but you still put a price.


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## Mr2 (22 Jun 2007)

I didn't put a price on it, someone else set the price. 

RSK2 I'm sure maintaining a classis car is not the same as a new(ish) BMW or new(ish) car. 

I'd love to see a receptionist change a set of brake pads and do it correctly. 

Training: on what temp the car should be to change the oil, how the car needs to be level to get all the oil out of the sump, how to know to replace the washer on the bung every time, how not to tighten it to tight so as you dont crack the sump. Put the right grade of oil into the car. Don't over tighten the filter. How after you put the recomended level of oil in the car you let it run for a few mins and then re-check the oil level. I shant go into brakes or anything else because I'd be here all day.

Do you think everyone is born with this knowledge and ability?

I can guarantee you would not be able to do this at home with axel stands and a jack in five mins. And if you were actually truthful about it, the 5 min job that you do is not correct.


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## RS2K (22 Jun 2007)

Ah come off it! 

An oil change is an oil change. It consists of running the engine until it's warm (a 5 minute drive will do this ) then removing sump plug and draining old oil out, then removing oil filter. Then you prime and fit new oil filter, replace sump plug, and fill with the correct amount of new oil of an appropriate specification.

It's the same for every car, modern and classic, & even something as special as a new BMW 316i 

Nobody is born knowledgeable, but we do learn simple tasks easily. A receptionist could do an oil change with marrigold gloves on, with perhaps 10 minutes of training. 

But if it makes you happy to pay €150 p.h. for this magical task, please carry right on.

Changing brake pads is very simple too btw. I had a seized piston in one of the callipers (classic car) recently, and despite having no training nor help whatsoever (bar a Haynes manual), I managed to remove the pads, and retract the piston, and eventually freed it up. The brakes worked perfectly afterwards.

I also changed the brake fluid, coolant, and removed and reverse flushed the rad. before refilling, and bleeding both systems. Following all this I drove the car 700 miles, without it missing a beat.

This will shock and no doubt amaze you, but I could do exactly the same to a new BMW. Any model. It's basic skills, not the stuff of 4th year apprentices, never mind "technicians".

p.s. The 10 minute oil change is a reality. It doesn't concern me if you don't believe it is.


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## SOM42 (22 Jun 2007)

I have to agree with RS2K.  An oil change on any car is basic stuff that 1st year apprentices do.  I'm not the most technical but have done loads of them on both old and new cars.  Its not exactly rocket surgery!


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## homeowner (25 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> p.s. The 10 minute oil change is a reality. It doesn't concern me if you don't believe it is.


 
I believe you!

How do you dispose of the old oil?


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