# Replace smart meter with day/night meter?



## MichaelR (16 Jun 2022)

Hello,

A smart meter was installed in my house sometime last year.

Then this year we got an electric vehicle. And it seems that the best electricity tariffs for this purpose are all offered on day/night meters and not on smart meters.

Is it possible to have the smart meter replaced with a day.night meter, and if it IS possible how do I get this done?


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## peemac (16 Jun 2022)

A smart meter is whatever meter you like.

You can even get a plan that has a lower rate in the middle of the night.

*Smart meter information*


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## Landscape (16 Jun 2022)

I was wondering the same MichaelR.

Peemac, the tariffs available depend on the meter type.

The tariffs available for the day & night meter look quite a bit better value than the Smart meter tariffs (even while availing of the smart meter 'night boost' tariff). Especially for an EV owner who charges overnight regularly.


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## FANTANA (16 Jun 2022)

MichaelR said:


> Hello,
> 
> A smart meter was installed in my house sometime last year.
> 
> ...


Yes I did this when we bought an EV. You just ring your current provider and tell them you would like to switch to a D&N meter. Took us a little while as it was during level 5 and they weren’t doing them at the time. If this is your first time requesting a meter change it is free off cost. I have heard some people had issues switching because they were on a smart plan. We had a smart meter but had been been on a non smart plan so not sure if this is true or not.


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## sharkattack (16 Jun 2022)

No you cannot request the smart meter with day/night meters once installed - that is what I was told


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## NotMyRealName (16 Jun 2022)

Aren't the tariffs set by the service provider? The meter is only a measuring device.


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## bstop (16 Jun 2022)

The whole smart meter thing is very complicated. There are 2 different day / night options. One of these has a super boost rate for 2 hours at night at 5c per unit. The downside of this option is that the rest of the night and day rates are more expensive than the other day / night option. You would also need to check the standing charges for all these options and compare these with the standing charge for the standard day / night meter and time clock installation. You would need a computer program to work out if you would make any savings on these options.


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## jpd (16 Jun 2022)

In general, opaque fees and prices favour the provider not the user

They reduce competition by making it difficult to compare prices against other providers in order to switch 
They hide increased prices as the user finds almost impossible to compare with his/her previous prices.
The most glaring example is Health Insurance but the energy supply business is well on the way to this promised land (for providers)


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## MichaelR (16 Jun 2022)

So Energia just said no we can't change the meter, but Electric Ireland said they would then another agent said they would not... so I chose to email, to have a written track.

The email response is that yes they can change the meter, after signing me up on a smart plan first. I am doing the signup on that same thread to have a fully traceable story.


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## NotMyRealName (16 Jun 2022)

Again, surely the meter makes no difference, as it's only a measuring tool. The provider sets the tariff. As a starting point ......do any of you know how many KWh you use per year ??
You can't measure cost or value without a baseline


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## jpd (16 Jun 2022)

The trouble is most people know how many kWh they use on an annual basis, but only the energy companies have detailed statistics on hourly and daily use


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## losttheplot (16 Jun 2022)

I've used 5000 kWh in the past year. Split 45% Day rate and 55% night rate. Most of the night rate is car charging and also immersion heater.


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## Leo (17 Jun 2022)

jpd said:


> The trouble is most people know how many kWh they use on an annual basis, but only the energy companies have detailed statistics on hourly and daily use


You can buy home energy monitors that clamp to the supply cable and will give you detailed usage stats.


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## Landscape (17 Jun 2022)

MichaelR said:


> So Energia just said no we can't change the meter, but Electric Ireland said they would then another agent said they would not... so I chose to email, to have a written track.
> 
> The email response is that yes they can change the meter, after signing me up on a smart plan first. I am doing the signup on that same thread to have a fully traceable story.


Hi MichaelR, let us know how it goes.

I ended up just switching to one of the standard bord gais Dual Fuel tariff (40% gas & elec discount) even though I have a smart meter.

The Bonkers comparison website is really useful especially if you know your annual usage. A day/night meter tariff would have been slightly better value for me as a EV user, but due to the hassle of having to request a meter change to the day/night meter, I chose the next best for me, which was Bord Gais dual fuel.


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## Landscape (17 Jun 2022)

NotMyRealName said:


> Again, surely the meter makes no difference, as it's only a measuring tool. The provider sets the tariff. As a starting point ......do any of you know how many KWh you use per year ??
> You can't measure cost or value without a baseline


The providers have different price plans depending on which meter you have installed(standard, smart or day&night). I don't know why the providers work it like that, but that is how it currently is afaik.

Ps if you have a smart meter you can choose a standard plan (if you haven't already been on a smart plan). I understand if you choose a smart plan it is harder to go back to a standard plan. With a smart meter you cannot avail of the specific day & night meter tariffs for some reason.


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## peemac (18 Jun 2022)

jpd said:


> The trouble is most people know how many kWh they use on an annual basis, but only the energy companies have detailed statistics on hourly and daily use


This is one of the big benefits of smart meters. You can see exactly when and where you are using electricity (I'm with electric Ireland). It gives you the exact cost for each hour of the day, or you can check by KWH usage. It also shows you what the outside temperature was in each hour.

I saw that I was using about 15c an hour overnight. So I switched off a couple of lights, Switched off TVs at plug and effectively now have one 5w light, a fridge, 2 mobiles charging and alarm / broadband on at night. Charge has dropped to 4c-5c an hour. That's €5 saving a week. A few other small changes during the day and the saving (without any affect on what I do) is over €10 a week  

Bill just issued was lower than May 2021 even though unit cost is 30% higher


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## Leo (20 Jun 2022)

Landscape said:


> With a smart meter you cannot avail of the specific day & night meter tariffs for some reason.


I notice on the Bonkers site when you select smart meter, it does ask whether you have a night-saver tariff...not sure what effect that has?

Running a few numbers, on average usage and with 30% of electricity used during the night rate period, SSE's smart plan is the cheapest at €1,169.29, with the same usage and a standard day-night meter, Energia is cheapest at €1,184.15. 

Looks like you'd need to move more than 30% of your usage to over-night for a day-night meter to work out cheaper than the smart meter options. Actually, with only 30% night usage and everage consumption, there's little benefit to the day-night meter due to the increased standing charge. A regular meter would cost €1,184.75.

Bottom line, you need to understand your own usage patterns to work out what will be best for you.


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## bstop (20 Jun 2022)

If you go to bed before the off peak start time, you would need to put timers on your immersion heater, washing machine, tumble dryer, dish washer, etc. You need to remember to load and setup these before the off peak time starts. In most cases you need an electrical supply connected to setup these appliances so you will need a timer bypass or you will need to unplug them from a plug in timer and plug them to a socket  for setup.If you are worried about having these units operating unattended at night you might need to install smoke detection in the room where they are located. If you have an EV you would Ideally need this on a timer also.


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## Leo (20 Jun 2022)

bstop said:


> In most cases you need an electrical supply connected to setup these appliances so you will need a timer bypass or you will need to unplug them from a plug in timer and plug them to a socket for setup.


In most cases these appliances will have built-in delay timers. 



bstop said:


> If you have an EV you would Ideally need this on a timer also.


Most if not all chargers will have timers built in or controllable via an app.


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## Landscape (20 Jun 2022)

We use our EV quite a bit, and I've worked out that approx just over 50% of our elec usage is charging the EV.


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