# Problems with kids near Kilbarrack dart station: tips



## stella (14 Dec 2009)

Dear Forum,

I need some help here. I live near the Kilbarrack dart station, recently I got the windscreen of my car smashed, some not so nice drawings on the slabs of the front garden - all done by kids. I know this is something that can happen anywhere but I am wondering - is there any advice?
Cheers
Stella


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## indebtedgal (14 Dec 2009)

I've no advice, i am having continual problems witht the same thing. I suppose if you could get their names at least you could call the guards every time they are amking a nuisance of themselves. On a malicious note i approached one the group that were hassling me, one day when i saw the gang leader with a group in our local town i went past and i heard him sniggering so i went up to him and said "johnny, i don't know what your laughing at, your auntie told me you still wet the bed!" (I don't know if he even has an auntie but he prob does) Later i was lucky enough to see him alone and i told him i was liable to say much worse, should he ever decide to pass an evening outside my house again.. haven't seen a sign of him since. Scum... And the parents don't give a monkeys... 

Anyway you are not alone.


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## sustanon (14 Dec 2009)

call the cops?


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## stella (15 Dec 2009)

Hello! The pb is that I am a foreigner - so kind of afraid if I approach one of them of worst behaviours. I have called the Gardee several times. Thanks anyway for your advice.


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## sustanon (15 Dec 2009)

Well if the cops tollerate the problem, then is this sort of behaviour acceptable to the Irish Public? Even Mexican cops will deal with a problem if you bribe them enough...

Do Garda take bribes? Basket of scones for the station or something?


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## Helen321 (16 Dec 2009)

Hi

I had this problem a number of years ago in Dublin 8 area.  I was advised to speak to my local Sinn Fein rep (which I did) and thankfully, the problem stopped! The gardai had not been able to do anything constructive for me and I had broken windows, car vandalised, etc etc.  Sinn Fein sorted it for me!

May be worth looking into.


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## Padraigb (16 Dec 2009)

Helen321 said:


> I had this problem a number of years ago in Dublin 8 area.  I was advised to speak to my local Sinn Fein rep (which I did) and thankfully, the problem stopped! The gardai had not been able to do anything constructive for me and I had broken windows, car vandalised, etc etc.  Sinn Fein sorted it for me!



I don't like the implications of that.


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## galleyslave (16 Dec 2009)

sinn fein rep 'sorted it' eh? I think I'd rather deal with the vandalism than those thugs


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## Helen321 (16 Dec 2009)

Padraigb said:


> I don't like the implications of that.


 


I wasn't too happy with it either but given a choice between broken windows (monthly at one point), car trashed on 3 occasions and other antisocial behaviour I took the "conversation with Sinn Fein rep" route...and it worked.  My community liaison garda could do nothing to stop it, though both he and his colleagues tried.  Sinn Fein could..., and did

Rock and a hard place.


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## TarfHead (16 Dec 2009)

Contact all of your local councillors. AFAIK, Kilbarrack is part of the Donaghmede ward for Dublin City Council.

killianforde@gmail.com
tom.brabazon@dublincity.ie
pcrimmins@esatclear.ie
info@seankenny.ie

Killian Forde is SF.


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## Padraigb (16 Dec 2009)

I am bothered that people seem to accept that the best response to bad behaviour is to invite somebody else to indulge in worse behaviour.


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## Helen321 (16 Dec 2009)

Padraigb said:


> I am bothered that people seem to accept that the best response to bad behaviour is to invite somebody else to indulge in worse behaviour.


 

I just let the OP know what worked for me, and I did point out that it wasn't my first port of call - but the gardai were no good.  What would you suggest?  (Thats not meant to be confrontational - am genuinely interested in other solutions)


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## Padraigb (16 Dec 2009)

I agree that problems like this are not easy to address. It's just that I think that having a dodgy group running an important aspect of community life is even worse.

Some initial thoughts on what to do
- Try to engage with the kids, not on the matter of their behaviour in relation to your property (act as if you don't know they are responsible) but as people in your community. It can be little things like asking for directions to some place, or even asking a small favour like help with bringing in some heavy shopping. Very often kids like that won't persecute you if they think they have any kind of relationship with you.
- If you can afford it, have CCTV fitted.
[One carrot, one stick. You could even combine them by telling the kids that some strangers are damaging your property, and you are getting CCTV fitted.]


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## GreenQueen (17 Dec 2009)

Are the kids wearing school uniforms and doing it to/from their school day?  If so take up their behaviour with the schools concerned.  

Are you engaging in the local community at all?  That is to say are you familiar with anyone else in the area, involved in any community groups etc.  Unfortunately for this particular area of Dublin respect for adults is earned and not assumed.  Adults who participate in the community; and work with kids or adults are far less likely to have their personal property damaged.

If you're close to the train station then you'd be familiar with many of the projects being run nearby - for example the KLEAR Project which is very close to the station; and there are a good few school attendance projects in the local primary schools.

Get out there and do something for your community and it will do something for you.


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## Guest128 (17 Dec 2009)

sustanon said:


> The OP is entitled to live in peace, and is not responsible for "parenting" these vandals. If they are not accountable to the law, then their parents should be held accountable. I'd like to know why exactly the cops can't handle this situation? oh wait, the little $h1ts have zip respect for authority or personal property to begin with. jail time....or better, hard labour.



+1

I can see them weeding the OPs garden in a fortnight


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## Padraigb (17 Dec 2009)

GreenQueen said:


> Are the kids wearing school uniforms and doing it to/from their school day?  If so take up their behaviour with the schools concerned...



Schools cannot be responsible for the behaviour of students when they are not at school.


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## TarfHead (17 Dec 2009)

GreenQueen said:


> Are you engaging in the local community at all? .. Get out there and do something for your community and it will do something for you.


 
What a curious argument !

If you get involved in local community activities, then you'll be spared the anti-social behaviour ? If you choose to live your own life, then you'll get a dose of what's going ?

My knowledge is less than limited. Occasionally I pass through Kilbarrack station on late-night DARTs and the behaviour of the feral kids who get on and off at that station is disgraceful. If I thought my own children could behave like that, I would be deeply ashamed.

Last weekend, I was talking with someone whose teenage son sometimes socialises in Kilbarrack. The son had asked, "how come around here (his own area) I never get stopped by the Gardai but when I cross the road to Kilbarrack I get stopped 2/3 times a night ?"

The cause of the problem & the solution is not the OPs.


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## stella (17 Dec 2009)

Well in one occasion they were outside my garden and ask me something. I replied politely and went inside. 2 minutes after my outdoor light was smashed. To be honest I don't mind to be involved in the community but in a way I am scared they will know who I am. Sorry but I am even  more concerned as I am a foreigner (even though I have been living here for many years).


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## MandaC (18 Dec 2009)

GreenQueen said:


> Get out there and do something for your community and it will do something for you.



You have to be having a laugh.

With all due respect, if my windows or doors were being smashed in at every hands turn and I was afraid in my own house, I would not care if it were Sinn Fein or the Queen of Sheeba once they could help me.


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## bullworth (18 Dec 2009)

galleyslave said:


> sinn fein rep 'sorted it' eh? I think I'd rather deal with the vandalism than those thugs



Maybe they just spoke with the kids ? Their past reputation might have worked to stop it more than anything else.


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## galleyslave (18 Dec 2009)

bullworth said:


> Maybe they just spoke with the kids ? Their past reputation might have worked to stop it more than anything else.


maybe, perhaps and possibly...

but then again where that lot are concerned I'm pretty much zero tolerance


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## MandaC (18 Dec 2009)

galleyslave said:


> maybe, perhaps and possibly...
> 
> but then again where that lot are concerned I'm pretty much zero tolerance



Zero tolerance is exactly what is needed with anti social teenagers hanging round


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## GreenQueen (19 Dec 2009)

@ Tarfhead & MandaC

It's a simple idea.  If the kids get to know you on a personal basis - especially if you are doing activities with them then they're less likely to damage your property. And they're also more likely to stop other kids damaging your stuff.

Look I have lived in the area (I don't now but did for many years).  It can be rough and some kids are let out to do whatever they like with no supervision.  You can live in fear and call the Gardai everytime something happens and bear in mind that they can't always come immediately.  You can move away which doesn't solve the problem either or you can get out and be more proactive in your community.

Personally I wouldn't call the local SF but that's just me.  I'd rather get involved in the community or get to know the kids on a personal level than get some person with possible dubious connections to "have a word".  Let's call it as it is - really it's condoning another form of criminality.


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## MandaC (19 Dec 2009)

Maybe they are just kids messing and humouring them might work.  I personally would not bother.  

My Dad lives in kind of elderly people housing in what would be deemed a rough enough area (2 shootings in last 12 months) 1 to the front of house approx. 100m away.   If they were to rely on calling the Guards, writing to Councillors, etc, they would be constantly living in fear.  

I will say that the local Sinn Feinn Councillor does excellent Community work for the people in the area and sometimes can be the only person to get things done, and I dont mean in a sinister way. 

What does work though is the power of fear....oh dont go near that road, that auld fella is a friend of the brother of the cousin of porky the penguin or whatever.  That is just the way some of these places work.  There is a lot to be said about Bullsworths comment about reputation, etc. even if you havent a clue what is going on.

OP are there any neighbours, etc you could call on, these kids are bullies and know who they are picking on.


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## Padraigb (19 Dec 2009)

I am somewhat annoyed that people are using this issue to promote Sinn Fein. I am very disturbed by the subtext: there is an understanding that Sinn Fein has access to a social mechanism that will control these kids, and an implication that this is not a bad thing. It's uncomfortably close to the world of punishment beatings and kneecappings.

Stella, you seem to think that being a foreigner is part of your problem. It might be, but it might not. There are plenty of people born locally who are also persecuted by kids. But you might have not yet tuned in fully with Irish ways, and not be good at interpreting the behaviour of kids. When you tell us that 


> Well in one occasion they were outside my garden and ask me something. I replied politely and went inside


it might be that you actually missed a chance to build a bridge. Of course it depends on what they asked, and the spirit in which they asked it, but we Irish often build a little social conversation on such a basis -- an exchange of two or three sentences, sometimes more if people have time to spare. A polite answer followed by your going indoors might have seemed to them to be stand-offish; in their minds, that might have been reason to break your light.

You could possibly turn to your advantage the very thing you see as being linked with your problem: the fact that you are of foreign origin. It means that you have important life experiences that these kids have never had. There is a good chance that they would be interested in it, if an opening ever came up to get it into conversation. "Where I grew up, the way we did it was..." could be a good way to develop a conversation. It might do you a lot of good. It might even do the kids some good.


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## stella (19 Dec 2009)

Dear Padraigb,

I know Irish culture a bit as I have been living here for 9 years and obviously I love Ireland. When I refer to the fact that I am scared to expose myself with my accent because I am a foreigner is because I am really afraid to be a target. One neighbour told me that they might pick on me because of it. Now I am just a little bit paranoid - but that's the way I feel at the moment.  But thanks maybe I should have engaged with them - I just was scared.


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## bullworth (21 Dec 2009)

Padraigb said:


> it might be that you actually missed a chance to build a bridge. Of course it depends on what they asked, and the spirit in which they asked it, but we Irish often build a little social conversation on such a basis -- an exchange of two or three sentences, sometimes more if people have time to spare. A polite answer followed by your going indoors might have seemed to them to be stand-offish; in their minds, that might have been reason to break your light.



Being polite or ''nice'' means they don't have any fear or respect for you. The message that something is wrong needs to be driven home and frankly they can be a bit slow as well as lacking in social graces. My approach would be to walk out there calmly and tell them confidently and without emotion that I can either 1. drag them around to their parents, 2. call the guards , 3. take their ball away etc  and that they can choose which one they want. It works for me. Now I don't advise this for everyone or for a lone female especially. The ability to make them believe you belong there and they dont without tripping up is a special talent. Not everyone is going to be strong enough or gutsy enough to do it in which case I suggest having the company of friends with you at the time. If you show any weak emotions, even anger or humanity their sociopathic nature can take advantage of it. The problem I would have with befriending someone whos already done something bad to you or your property is that trying to act like what they did doesn't bother you and isnt wrong  is selling your own values out. Its dishonest and its an act of total submission/surrender. If it comes to that point then you've already lost more than some damaged property. This will give these kids the notion of ''its ok we can break somebody elses window and he will befriend us.'' Plus I wouldnt want to be mixing socially with feral kids who dont share my values and I wouldnt want them calling around to my front door like we were friends. I would want them to feck off basically. Being nice to a bully doesnt work. A bully only respects strength.


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## MandaC (21 Dec 2009)

bullworth said:


> Being polite or ''nice'' means they don't have any fear or respect for you. The message that something is wrong needs to be driven home and frankly they can be a bit slow as well as lacking in social graces. My approach would be to walk out there calmly and tell them confidently and without emotion that I can either 1. drag them around to their parents, 2. call the guards , 3. take their ball away etc  and that they can choose which one they want. It works for me. Now I don't advise this for everyone or for a lone female especially. The ability to make them believe you belong there and they dont without tripping up is a special talent. Not everyone is going to be strong enough or gutsy enough to do it in which case I suggest having the company of friends with you at the time. If you show any weak emotions, even anger or humanity their sociopathic nature can take advantage of it. The problem I would have with befriending someone whos already done something bad to you or your property is that trying to act like what they did doesn't bother you and isnt wrong  is selling your own values out. Its dishonest and its an act of total submission/surrender. If it comes to that point then you've already lost more than some damaged property. This will give these kids the notion of ''its ok we can break somebody elses window and he will befriend us.'' Plus I wouldnt want to be mixing socially with feral kids who dont share my values and I wouldnt want them calling around to my front door like we were friends. I would want them to feck off basically. Being nice to a bully doesnt work. A bully only respects strength.



Spot on.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Dec 2009)

The original question has been answered, insofar as it can be answered. 

Brendan


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