# Rabo "sell out your friends" spam!



## ClubMan (26 Apr 2006)

Anybody else get the _Rabo _"sell out your friends" spam from them today? I initially assumed that it was a joke, hoax or phishing attempt but it looks real. Unbelievable! 












For the record here are the message headers:

```
X-Message-Status: n:0
X-SID-PRA: RaboDirect <[EMAIL="info@rabodirect.ie"]info@rabodirect.ie[/EMAIL]>
X-SID-Result: TempError
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jHXYWhC0t4T8/JU6EKdrqlzoz0ull5YW0g=
Received: from cordamail.cordata.be ([212.113.74.53]) by bay0-mc2-f15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
     Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:51:34 -0700
Received: from cordamail.cordata.be ([192.168.254.203]) by cordamail.cordata.be with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713);
     Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:19 +0200
From: "RaboDirect" <[EMAIL="info@rabodirect.ie"]info@rabodirect.ie[/EMAIL]>
To: XXXXXX
Reply-To: [EMAIL="info@rabodirect.ie"]info@rabodirect.ie[/EMAIL]
Subject: =?Windows-1252?B?V2FudCCAMTAwIHRvIHNlbGwg?=
 =?Windows-1252?B?b3V0IHlvdXIgZnJpZW5kcz8g?=
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:19 +0200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL="20060426-16511969-dc0@cordamail.cordata.be"]20060426-16511969-dc0@cordamail.cordata.be[/EMAIL]>
Mailer:[broken link removed]
Mail-System:CordataEngine
Mail-Action:604
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
    boundary="--=83838E29185E49EB99B4_BCB2_0BF9_D8E8"
Return-Path: [EMAIL="bounced020@cordata.be"]bounced020@cordata.be[/EMAIL]
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2006 14:51:19.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0CC59F0:01C66940]

----=83838E29185E49EB99B4_BCB2_0BF9_D8E8
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
    boundary="--=81999E2D90854B55BA21_2804_27A2_718F"
```


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## Squonk (26 Apr 2006)

Yep...I just got one too. It looks like they want to start a chain-letter.


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## onlineprint (26 Apr 2006)

Is there a web link for this offer lol


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## Crunchie (26 Apr 2006)

You can have one of my invites if you want


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Apr 2006)

ClubMan very kindly referred me to test this and this is the response he got:



> * Get out of here!!/ How hard up were you?/ Wasn’t this just the best offer ever?/ Don’t you just love us?*
> 
> Thanks for selling out your mates. But now will you please stop because you will have cleaned us out of €20 notes. And the genius who came up with the offer says you can’t have more than 5 mates anyway.
> 
> But thanks all the same. We really appreciate it. You should come and work for us!


 


I got the following email:


> Dear Friend.
> You probably know this already but my bank, RaboDirect is offering a unbelievably amazing 3.35%* interest on savings. That could be up to 30 times more than what you get from your bank. Plus they offer a choice of top rated investment funds that'll blow your socks off!
> Anyway, they've gently persuaded me to invite you to open a RaboDirect  Savings Account.
> Here's the best bit! If you do open an account, you get *€20*  to get the next round of pints you tight git. Of course I'll be getting  *€20* too but that's because I deserve it.
> ...


 


There is something very tacky about this whole approach.
The main danger that I see in it is that if a "reputable" bank like RaboBank sends spam to people, then the next time that they get email from a fraudster they would be more likely to respond to it.
Some fraudsters will now start sending emails purporting to come from RaboBank asking for details of their accounts so that they can pay the €20 into it. 


I can't think of any particular law or code which they are breaking, but it seems irresponsible to me. 


I may well make a formal complaint to the Financial Regulator or to the ASAI. 



 Brendan


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## Humpback (27 Apr 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> I may well make a formal complaint to the Financial Regulator or to the ASAI.


 
Brendan - a quick fyi, I tried to complain to ASAI about some internet advertising by Imagine Broadband that was wrong (they'd upheld my complaint regarding the same comments on television), but ASAI rejected the complaint because they don't cover such internet communications - I'm guessing that e-mail will fall into that category as well.


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

This sort of advertising/recruitment campaign by a high profile and otherwise reputable financial institution is a very bad idea for the reasons outlined by _Brendan _above. I think _Rabo _have confused "sarcasm" with "straight talking" in their marketing campaigns.  I realise that this sort of stuff is supposed to be funny but I tend not to trust any organisation that treats its customers (and I am a _Rabo _customer myself at the moment but am having second thoughts in the light of this harebrained campaign) like idiots:


> And the genius who came up with the offer says you can’t have more than 5 mates anyway.


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## Squonk (27 Apr 2006)

It looks like the marketing dept of Rabo have gone crazy. How wants to put money into a bank that's run by a load of wise-asses? A bank should project an image of security and maturity. From the tone of those Rabo emails I would guess that the bank was been run by a pack of teenagers.


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Squonk said:
			
		

> A bank should project an image of security and maturity.


Yeah - like my other bank _PTSB _and their mafia themed advertising?


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

I've sent this comment to _Rabo _via their website:


> I wish to complain about your recent (26th April) "sell our your friends" spam email campaign encouraging existing customers to refer others to become Rabo customers. I initially assumed that the email was a hoax or phishing attempt and treated it with extreme caution. However having established that it was genuine (by checking the email headers and the websites references) I was gobsmacked to realise that a financial institution like Rabo was engaging in such a puerile marketing campaign tactic. More importantly, it is very irresponsible for a financial institution to be encouraging the public to open what look like hoax/spam/phishing emails and even send them on to others. Especially when the trend in the business is to highlight the potential security risks inherent in using online services (websites and email) and encouraging customers to protect themselves against nefarious scams. Having opened an account with Rabo when they first arrived here in Ireland I am now seriously reconsidering whether should be doing business with a bank which uses such irresponsible tactics in the marketing of their wares, never mind encouraging others to become customers.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Apr 2006)

Hi ClubMan

That's straight talking anyway! May I plagiarise that for my formal complaint to IFSRA?

Brendan


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Be my guest.


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## ClubMan (27 Apr 2006)

Squonk said:
			
		

> From the tone of those Rabo emails I would guess that the bank was been run by a pack of teenagers.


Well the _General Manager_ is [broken link removed] who presumably has ultimate responsibility for this approach by the bank to online marketing? Judging by his picture he's not a teenager.

P.S. what odds will anybody give me on some journo picking up on this story from _AAM_?


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## Humpback (27 Apr 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> P.S. what odds will anybody give me on some journo picking up on this story from _AAM_?


 
Took the words right out of my mouth (or at least off my keyboard). I was going to hold off posting though to see if they did actually pick it up. 

Maybe they're scared off now. Maybe they're brazen enough to go with the story anyway.


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## CCOVICH (27 Apr 2006)

Brendan is well aware of this thread, and he can make the call on whether or not anything in breach of the Posting Guidelines has been said.  If anyone has an informed view and is genuinely concerned that something that has been said here has potentially negative consequences for him, could I ask that they contact Brendan directly on the issue.  Let's not drag it out any further here.

Thanks.


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## ClubMan (2 May 2006)

Still no reply from "the straight talking bank" to my complaint filed through the feedback form on their website.


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## ClubMan (2 May 2006)

Received this from them this evening:


> Dear ...
> 
> I refer to  your recent complaint about our “sell out your friends” campaign.
> We have a  permission email database that our customers have voluntarily subscribed  themselves to.  The email communication which you referred to was issued by  RaboDirect to our customers who have opted to receive communications from us.   Subscribers are free to unsubscribe from our database at any time.
> ...


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## dublinsense (3 May 2006)

I'm gonna side with rabo on this one, Fair play to them. Rather than wasting thousands on traditional methods they got people talking. I take my hat off to them.


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## ClubMan (3 May 2006)

Talking about how irresponsible and puerile the campaign is - hardly a good thing? I've also decided to reduce my balance to the minimum €1 (from the mere €100 that I had with them - my _Northern Rock _account offers better rates anyway), have unsubscribed from their email notification channel (which I would have expected to be for useful information rather than spam campaigns like this), have tied up one of their staff for at least a couple of hours dealing with my complaints about this matter and will not be recommending them to anybody else. Maybe my negative reaction to this campaign will be in the minority. If so, so be it.


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## GreatDane (3 May 2006)

Hi

I can't say I'm overly bothered by this advertising campaign myself, but I can appreciate why some might be.

I do however like the idea of them giving €20 per head, for each new customer, along with giving each of the new customers €20 also .. not as good as the original €30 free plus €30 in Pigsback points, but a decent offer nonetheless .. easy money, in many respects.

As a side point, it's a shame they failed to pass on the full benifit of the last two, 0.25% ECB rate rises ... I fear this may be the start of our "straight talking bank" taking a little more profit from us 

Cheers

G>


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## Squonk (3 May 2006)

As a rabo customer I'm not impressed. Yes, I also signed up for email notifications from Rabo, but I didn't sign up to do their marketing and sales for them.


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## Itchy (3 May 2006)

FFS lads... Is this the worst spam you have ever gotten? Ill take the 20 pints off them.

If you're not not happy why not;
a) Delete the mail
b) Send to Junkmail
c) Unsubscribe
d) All of the above

Considering you did subscribe to the email in the first place. 

As regards fraud, if you choose to bank online with an ONLINE bank then you should posses the common sense not to send confidential info via email and even for those without the knowledge they have a security policy in writing to educate. 

Its a gimmick, like any other one... get over it.


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## colc1 (3 May 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Talking about how irresponsible and puerile the campaign is - hardly a good thing? I've also decided to reduce my balance to the minimum €1 (from the mere €100 that I had with them - my _Northern Rock _account offers better rates anyway), have unsubscribed from their email notification channel (which I would have expected to be for useful information rather than spam campaigns like this), have tied up one of their staff for at least a couple of hours dealing with my complaints about this matter and will not be recommending them to anybody else. Maybe my negative reaction to this campaign will be in the minority. If so, so be it.


 
I, for one admire your stance clubman


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## ClubMan (4 May 2006)

Garrettod said:
			
		

> I fear this may be the start of our "straight talking bank" taking a little more profit from us


 The "straight talking bank" also had misleading information about competitor's interest rates on their website which they only qualified with some explanatory footnotes when I complained to them and _IFSRA _about it and they changed the website. They listed _"Interest rates in Ireland"_ on their home page but omitted better offers (albeit with other terms & conditions such as higher than €1 minimum balances) such as from _Northern Rock_. They eventually qualified their list with the following caveat:


> *RaboDirect Savings Comparison Table
> 
> *This table shows the actual interest you will earn in 1 year from RaboDirect and the other main Irish banks. These institutions were chosen as they have similar savings account conditions to RaboDirect such as no minimum amount, no minimum term & no penalties.


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## inertia (16 Jan 2007)

I know I am a few months late on this one but i only saw the post now while looking for something else.

Why is everyone out to get Rabobank?  I think they are great and offer great interest rates.  I have a deposit account with them and I say fair play to them and to Northern Rock for bringing competition to the market and trying to shake up BOI and AIB who take all our money happily but give us back interest rates of 0.25%.

I loved the ad campaign about selling out your matesand the other amusing ones they run.  A bit of humour and imagination are good things.  If you don't like the e-mail then do as Itchy says:

If you're not not happy why not;
a) Delete the mail
b) Send to Junkmail
c) Unsubscribe
d) All of the above


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## ClubMan (13 Jun 2007)

jrewing said:


> Clubman,
> How does this work ? Rabo pay 5% on first Eur 10k right ? Do NR have an account paying more than that ?


This issue dates back to early 2006 and has been overtaken by events. _Rabo's _offer of 5% on €10K was enough for me to get over my annoyance at their "spam". As _Groucho Marx _once said - _"those are my principles and if you don't like them then I have others"_!


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## aishling (18 Jun 2007)

Looks like there bring back their refer a friend offer!! [broken link removed] Now to find 5 friends


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## Bosshog (19 Jul 2007)

Has anyone actually recieved their €20 for 'inviting' someone to open a rabo account?
I know of 2 people who have opened Rabo accounts using the promotional codes generated by the email sent via the Rabo site by me, and neither I or the other 2 people have recieved the €20.


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## ClubMan (19 Jul 2007)

Not yet but the two new accounts have not been activated as the initial _PINs _for the _Digipass _are still in the post.


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## Bosshog (19 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Not yet but the two new accounts have not been activated as the initial _PINs _for the _Digipass _are still in the post.



in my case, i know for sure that 1 of the accounts is now active. strange?


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## ClubMan (19 Jul 2007)

Bosshog said:


> in my case, i know for sure that 1 of the accounts is now active. strange?


Get onto Rabo and ask them why the inviter and invitee did not get their €20?


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## pc7 (19 Jul 2007)

hi i got my 20 quid from my friend about a week ago, i told her to refer my boyf so she can get it now! ah well better in our accounts than rabos! easiest 20 quid i've every got.


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## webtax (7 Sep 2007)

agree with pc7: easiest €20 i've ever got

have had family members & friends open accounts - are all now earning 5% interest on an account they got paid to open - far better than the fraction of a % that was on offer from the traditional irish banks until the likes of rabo & northern rock entered the market. 
their marketing campaign may be a bit brash but i don't see a security risk with it as they dont ask for bank acc details and any info is given on their secure website. same as with ryanair: if you don't like a bargain you can always get a worse deal elsewhere!

(if anyone wants the email offer then pm me as i have a few to spare)


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## RaboDirect (8 Sep 2007)

*The title of this thread should be changed*

Can I request that the title of this thread be changed. The most recent posters are referring to the legitimate "Member-Get-Member" programme. The use of the term "spam" in the title is misleading and inappropriate. It also implies that we are in breach of Data Protection regulations which is not the case.

RaboDirect


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## DrMoriarty (8 Sep 2007)

Fair enough — but I don't agree with "Member-Get-Member". We're not members of RaboDirect, we're customers.

Would you be happy with _'Rabo "sell out your friends" direct marketing scheme'_?


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Sep 2007)

This is clearly spam which as I understand it is unwanted commercial email ? 

I got this from Rabobank and I did not appreciate it. 

If Rabobank don't want to be accused of spamming, then they should stop spamming people.

Brendan
Admimistrator 
askaboutmoney.com


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## woods (8 Sep 2007)

I do not know why they are worrying. Almost 4K people have read this and that is a lot of free publicity.
If this keeps up they will not need to spam anyone.


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## RaboDirect (8 Sep 2007)

Brendan said:


> This is clearly spam which as I understand it is unwanted commercial email ?
> 
> I got this from Rabobank and I did not appreciate it.
> 
> ...



People *opt in* to receiving electronic communications from RaboDirect, ie, ezines and eflashes. We do not send unsolicited email to people. Recipients to our communications can unsubscribe from receiving further communications. The key point here is that people have made a decision to receive communications from us and as a commercial entity it is not unreasonable to expect to receive commercial messages. 

Spam relates to emails and text messages that are unsolicited and often when recipients have been included on to databases without their permission. It is often difficult to remove yourself from receiving further communications. 

Brendan, you may not like the email you received - fair enough. You can unsubscribe from receiving further comms or just delete the mail which you presumably did.  However, it is incorrect to call it 'spam' and you should withdraw this comment in the interest of accuracy and fairness.

RaboDirect


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## onlineprint (8 Sep 2007)

RaboDirect said:


> Spam relates to emails and text messages that are unsolicited and often when recipients have been included on to databases without their permission. It is often difficult to remove yourself from receiving further communications.
> 
> Brendan, you may not like the email you received - fair enough. You can unsubscribe from receiving further comms or just delete the mail which you presumably did. However, it is incorrect to call it 'spam' and you should withdraw this comment in the interest of accuracy and fairness.
> 
> RaboDirect


 
I think Brenadan is quite right in what he has said. I recently asked for a loan via RaboDirect (Credit Line I think) and I have started to get spam. 

I feel Rabodirect may like to note most ppl do not pay much attention to the small print and in my case I have got at least 3 emails from RaboDirect in under 7 days to my 'work' email address which was only used for a loan application which was actually REFUSED so I am not a RaboDirect customer so in my view it is spam


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## RaboDirect (8 Sep 2007)

onlineprint said:


> I think Brenadan is quite right in what he has said. I recently asked for a loan via RaboDirect (Credit Line I think) and I have started to get spam.
> 
> I feel Rabodirect may like to note most ppl do not pay much attention to the small print and in my case I have got at least 3 emails from RaboDirect in under 7 days to my 'work' email address which was only used for a loan application which was actually REFUSED so I am not a RaboDirect customer so in my view it is spam



Onlineprint, you chose to deliberately opt into receiving communications. I tried to include a screen print of the ezine/eflash sign up page from the Credit Account application process but it didn't work here. The unformatted text version is below:

"*We'd like to keep you informed about our special offers and what's happening at RaboDirect through our monthly eZine and occasional eFlashes.*

 [] If you don't want us to contact you, please tick this box.

Remember, if you do choose to receive our eZine and eFlashes, you can unsubscribe at any time by clicking on the 'Unsubscribe' function in these communications.

 [] From time to time, we'd like to inform you about products or services offered by other entities in the Rabobank group. If you don't want to receive this information please tick this box.

[] If you don't want to receive straight talking text messages to your mobile phone, please tick this box.

This part of the application process is very clearly titled "Keeping you informed". You must deliberately tick the boxes to receive communications. The actual formatted version on the application form does not try to hide or mislead people. Obviously we will use the email address provided when you opt into receiving communications. Some people prefer to use non-work addresses for this type of communications such as gmail, hotmail etc. 

Customers and non-customers can subscribe to communications. It's not a prerequisite to be a customer. 

Again we reiterate that you can unsubscribe from receiving communications - the unsubscribe option is included in every ezine or eflash or you can do so directly on our website.

Also, the heading of opt-in section clearly refers to the fact that you are choosing to opt in to receiving information about special offers etc - commercial messages. We are very upfront about this.


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## ClubMan (9 Sep 2007)

RaboDirect said:


> People *opt in* to receiving electronic communications from RaboDirect, ie, ezines and eflashes. We do not send unsolicited email to people. Recipients to our communications can unsubscribe from receiving further communications. The key point here is that people have made a decision to receive communications from us and as a commercial entity it is not unreasonable to expect to receive commercial messages.


I opted out but started getting emails again without choosing to!


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## ButtermilkJa (9 Sep 2007)

Very interesting thread indeed. I would like to add my thoughts on this...

1) I do not like campaigns like these that ask other people to enter 'my' email address. People do not realise that an email address is private, and I would never want my address being entered into random online forms by my 'friends'. Any opportunity for them to do this is something I frown upon. I have recently been plagued by spam mails from a website because one of my friends thought it was a good idea to enter my address. Very annoying.

2) I also dislike what I consider to be 'sneaky' tactics by websites to get your email address on to their database. If you are filling out an online form, you should have to _tick a box_ to receive further communications, and _not untick_ in order to not receive them. This type of sneaky behaviour is irresponsible in my opinion.

3) With particular reference to the campaign being discussed here, I have to agree with the posters who point out that speaking to customers/potential customers in this manner does not fill me with confidence. As one poster mentioned, it's as if the company is being 'run by teenagers'. It reminds me of a particular ezine I receive from an online gambling site which at times is appalling in the language used.


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## RaboDirect (9 Sep 2007)

ButtermilkJa said:


> Very interesting thread indeed. I would like to add my thoughts on this...
> 
> 1) I do not like campaigns like these that ask other people to enter 'my' email address. People do not realise that an email address is private, and I would never want my address being entered into random online forms by my 'friends'. Any opportunity for them to do this is something I frown upon. I have recently been plagued by spam mails from a website because one of my friends thought it was a good idea to enter my address. Very annoying.
> 
> ...



Buttermilk - in the specific "Member-Get-Member" promotion RaboDirect does not keep the email address of the friend and nor do we sign up the friend to our email database. The friend must subscribe to the database him/herself. Accordingly the friends who receive the promotion will not receive spam, ie, unsolicited communication, as they are not registered on the database. 

In your second point above - we completely agree. In the RaboDirect site you *must opt in* to receiving communications, ie, you must tick a box to say that you do want to receive communications. The tick box is not pre-ticked (which is often another trick that disreputable companies use). 

Regarding the Member-Get-Member campaign, it is quite a straightforward promotion - you can send the promotion to 5 of your friends. If your five friends sign up you get €100 (€20 per friend) and your friend receives €20 when they open their account, ie, when the person has sent in the appropriate proof of ID and address documentation and the account has been activated.

Again we reiterate that we only send emails to those people who have deliberately chosen to receive communications and we make no secret of the fact that these can include commercial messages. A lot of companies abuse people's data protection rights and it is grossly unfair to tar RaboDirect with the same brush.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Sep 2007)

> Again we reiterate that we only send emails to those people who have deliberately chosen to receive communications and we make no secret of the fact that these can include commercial messages



This is just not true. I got Rabobank spam through other people. They were  paid by Rabobank to send Unsolicted Commercial Email to me. 

Brendan


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## ButtermilkJa (9 Sep 2007)

RaboDirect said:


> Buttermilk - in the specific "Member-Get-Member" promotion RaboDirect does not keep the email address of the friend and nor do we sign up the friend to our email database...


Ok, that's fair enough. It's good to know.



RaboDirect said:


> In your second point above - we completely agree. In the RaboDirect site you *must opt in* to receiving communications, ie, you must tick a box to say that you do want to receive communications. The tick box is not pre-ticked (which is often another trick that disreputable companies use)...



But, from a previous post...


RaboDirect said:


> ...
> "*We'd like to keep you informed about our special offers and what's happening at RaboDirect through our monthly eZine and occasional eFlashes.*
> 
> [] If you don't want us to contact you, please tick this box.
> ...


So, you must tick if you _don't_ want to receive communications? I'm confused on this. The way I see it, if I miss that particular small print, then I don't tick the box, and Im automatically signed up. As far I see this is the same as 'pre-ticking' an opt-in box. So, is it "another trick that disreputable companies use" or not?


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## ClubMan (9 Sep 2007)

I had a _Rabo _account for a good while and had opted out of receiving marketing etc. emails. I recently opened two new accounts - one for my wife and one for our child. In both cases I used the same email address but also opted out of receiving emails etc. However following on from opening these accounts I started receiving such emails again. When I log into these accounts I can see nowhere obvious to opt out of such mailing lists. There is an unsubscribe link in the emails that they send so I will try that.


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