# Electric Heating



## podgerodge (20 Mar 2020)

Hi
A family member is purchasing a second hand house - a small (65 sqm) 2 bed mid terrace house.

No gas supply to the estate, it's all electric heating.

The sellers have removed all old electric radiators so it's bare walls.

From what I gather, getting electric radiators for 2 beds, kitchen, small dining, bathroom might be somewhere about €3-4k.  Not sure about installation costs but it seems straightforward enough.  Appreciate any advice from people who have done this, a lot of different radatiors out there, currently looking at Rointe.ie 


Thanks!


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## lonelyplanet (20 Mar 2020)

Hi Podgerodge. 
For a house of that size it should not cost 3K for electric heating but if you want to part with it I'll do the job for ya  
I am guessing 2 bed, living, kitchen and bathroom. 
Storage heaters were the traditional method of electric heating apartments and some houses in the past but now the electric heaters are very good...I have installed many of them and all they require is socket in the room that you can plug the heater in.

I have used a product called ATC Sunray and they have new models coming out every year. Some of the models can be managed remotely via an app that you can switch on/off when required. 

Anyway suggest you google ATC Sunray and visit a good electrical wholesaler or speak to your electrician.

Best of luck


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## podgerodge (21 Mar 2020)

Thanks very much lonelyplanet.  You are not far wrong with your guess!

A supplier I rang today told me (based on measurements for individual rooms) said I would need:

kitchen 770w, dining 990w, bed1 - 770w, bed2 - 990w, bath 500w rail.

It looked like very roughly about €3k for the rads and I don't know about installation but doesn't look too difficult.

Here is the radiators I was looking at:

[broken link removed]

Will have a look at ATC too.  Where would an electrician come in - there isn't a need for one to install is there?

Edit:  Had a look at ATC, very interesting, especially given Irish website and prices include VAT and Installation.  I didn't see a towel rail for the bath, but there is a 500w rad.  Looks like total cost of all the rads given info about might be about €2.5k incl install.  Thoughts?  Thanks again.


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## SparkRite (21 Mar 2020)

podgerodge said:


> ............getting electric radiators for 2 beds, kitchen, small dining, bathroom .........





lonelyplanet said:


> I am guessing 2 bed, living, kitchen and bathroom.





podgerodge said:


> Thanks very much lonelyplanet.  You are not far wrong with your guess!



Am I missing something? 
Where is the guesswork that he could be far wrong with?


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## podgerodge (21 Mar 2020)




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## lonelyplanet (23 Mar 2020)

SparkRite said:


> Am I missing something?
> Where is the guesswork that he could be far wrong with?




Could be a night club on Leeson st  

Podgerodge the heaters are easy to install ...All you need is to be near a wall socket...Screw brackets to wall and then hang your rad on the brackets. Check out the different manufacturers...I dont have experience of other electric rad manufacturers except ATC Sunray...

Best of luck..


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## elcato (23 Mar 2020)

I'm not sure about the ATC ones but the Lucht heaters come with leg attachment as optional so no requirement to fit to the wall. It also makes them portable and more flexible.


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## Buddyboy (23 Mar 2020)

And if the sellers have removed all old electric heaters, then I assume the (correctly specced) wiring is in place. So it's just a matter of wiring up the new radiators.


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## podgerodge (24 Mar 2020)

Thanks all, will let you know how pans out.


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## lonelyplanet (25 Mar 2020)

podrerodge there is another brand I came across at the time called Fahro but seemingly the ATC customer service is better...As one of the previous posters mentioned you can get freestanding heaters but personally I dont like them !! All you need to be able to do is wire a 3 pin plug for these heaters... Best of luck


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## Zenith63 (15 Oct 2020)

Anybody got a sense of the cost to operate of electric radiators like these, compared to a gas boiler and traditional rads?

The ability to set the temperature you want for individual rooms, control from an app, easily retrofit to rooms where getting pipes may be difficult etc sounds great!


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## SparkRite (15 Oct 2020)

Zenith63 said:


> Anybody got a sense of the cost to operate of electric radiators like these, compared to a gas boiler and traditional rads?
> 
> The ability to set the temperature you want for individual rooms, control from an app, easily retrofit to rooms where getting pipes may be difficult etc sounds great!



The end cost to heat by electricity alone is generally higher, compared to using other sources.
However it is usually more/easily controllable, practically 'instant', more user friendly (as you pointed out above) and is highly efficient.


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## Zenith63 (15 Oct 2020)

I wonder will ESB have to increase the standard supply/fuse size they supply to home?  In the depths of winter you might be drawing 5-6kW for electric heaters, 14kW with two cars charging, 4 kW for the oven, 3kW if the kettle goes on - nearly double the standard 63A fuse.


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## SparkRite (15 Oct 2020)

Zenith63 said:


> I wonder will ESB have to increase the standard supply/fuse size they supply to home?



With the power draw that you have suggested, there will be a lot more than just fuse rating to consider.


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## Branz (15 Oct 2020)

Zenith63 said:


> I wonder will ESB have to increase the standard supply/fuse size they supply to home?  In the depths of winter you might be drawing 5-6kW for electric heaters, 14kW with two cars charging, 4 kW for the oven, 3kW if the kettle goes on - nearly double the standard 63A fuse.


You wont be drawing 14 for the two cars as you will need a priority switch or else intelligent chargers


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## Zenith63 (15 Oct 2020)

Even with one charger plus all that other stuff you're over an 80A fuse, never mind the standard 63A though.  But I understand the point, you could be more intelligent about your load.  It would just be much more convenient if the ESB just started putting 120A supplies or three-phase into all new builds to cater for all personal transport and home heating switching over to electric in the coming years.


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## SDMXTWO (21 Oct 2020)

podgerodge said:


> Thanks very much lonelyplanet.  You are not far wrong with your guess!
> 
> A supplier I rang today told me (based on measurements for individual rooms) said I would need:
> 
> ...



I am currently checking out this company (No Affiliation), they have prices as well: https://ecovolt.ie/


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## lledlledlled (21 Oct 2020)

How long does the person intend living in the house? If any way medium to long-term, i think any form of heating by electricity is going to costs much more than heating by natural gas. The house sounds ideal for a combi gas boiler. 

The first priority should be insulating the house to a high standard so that you need less heat in the first place.


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## Sue Ellen (21 Oct 2020)

podgerodge said:


> *No gas supply to the estate, it's all electric heating.*





lledlledlled said:


> How long does the person intend living in the house? If any way medium to long-term, i think any form of heating by electricity is going to costs much more than *heating by natural gas. The house sounds ideal for a combi gas boiler.*
> 
> The first priority should be insulating the house to a high standard so that you need less heat in the first place.


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## Blackrock1 (21 Oct 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> How long does the person intend living in the house? If any way medium to long-term, i think any form of heating by electricity is going to costs much more than heating by natural gas. The house sounds ideal for a combi gas boiler.
> 
> The first priority should be insulating the house to a high standard so that you need less heat in the first place.



given that a lot of new A rate builds use a heatpump (so all heating is electric) i dont think thats correct.


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## Branz (21 Oct 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> How long does the person intend living in the house? If any way medium to long-term, i think any form of heating by electricity is going to costs much more than heating by natural gas. The house sounds ideal for a combi gas boiler.
> 
> The first priority should be insulating the house to a high standard so that you need less heat in the first place.



NG, if available would be say 5 cents /kWh, and say oil is 8
Night rate elec might be 10, COP for the HP of say 3, so  3.33 vs 5 or 8


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## Leo (21 Oct 2020)

Blackrock1 said:


> given that a lot of new A rate builds use a heatpump (so all heating is electric) i dont think thats correct.



All down to insulation and heat demand, but a kWh unit of heat generated by gas continues to be cheaper than the most efficient heat pumps, but if your heat demand is very low, the overall costs might converge to a point where the heat pump option makes sense. 

The SEAI will not provide a grant for heat pump installation if you're not already around a B2 or better (with a Heat Loss Indicator of 2 Watts/Kelvin/m2) . 




Branz said:


> NG, if available would be say 5 cents /kWh, and say oil is 8
> Night rate elec might be 10, COP for the HP of say 3, so 3.33 vs 5 or 8



Fuel costs as of July here. NG is 6.71

Night rates will apply during the hours of 1am and 8am in winter, but heat pumps need to run much of the day. A heat pump that will give you a COP of 3 during summer will likely only deliver ~2 in winter, assuming we're talking air-sourced.


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## Branz (22 Oct 2020)

Any decent UFH setup will use a buffer tank to fully avail of the NR.
Any heat pump that is running much of the day is a poor job all the way around.

Thanks for the SEAI link, when will it reflect t new carbon tax: is it next Jan?


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## Leo (23 Oct 2020)

Branz said:


> Any decent UFH setup will use a buffer tank to fully avail of the NR.
> Any heat pump that is running much of the day is a poor job all the way around.



We're talking about retro-fitting here, I'm not sure they're considering that level of disruption. Heat pumps need to run regularly throughout the day though, the lower output means slower cycle times. You could set a high target temp for the during the NR hours to ensure it's running throughout the cheaper period, but that's not advised as efficient. 



Branz said:


> Thanks for the SEAI link, when will it reflect t new carbon tax: is it next Jan?



They update that report every quarter. Carbon tax increase for coal, gas etc. kicks in May 1st I think.


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## pudds (23 Oct 2020)

Any update podgerodge?


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