# Church etiquette re. donations



## decembersal (13 Jul 2009)

Hi Guys,
I have asked my local church to say a mass for the first anniversary of a relative. The Sacristan never mentioned anything re. donations. I was just wondering what the norm is?
Cheers
DS


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## mathepac (13 Jul 2009)

€30 - €50 is the norm IME.


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## Darthvadar (13 Jul 2009)

I usually make a donation of around €20 if the person's remembered during a regular scheduled mass... If the mass is being specifically celebrated for the person, then I usually donate €50 (plus a large box of the priest's favourite choccies... Gawd, he's got a sweet tooth!)...

Darth...


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## TLC (4 Aug 2009)

I think it's such a disgrace that priests need to be paid - surely €10 or €20 is more than enough to donate?  Anybody else any views on priests being paid for funerals/weddings/letters of freedom etc.  Do they know there is a recession on?  Why don't the Dioces issue guidelines on this?


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## mathepac (4 Aug 2009)

TLC, maybe you need a separate thread in Letting Off Steam if you want to have a rant.


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## Mpsox (4 Aug 2009)

TLC said:


> I think it's such a disgrace that priests need to be paid - surely €10 or €20 is more than enough to donate? Anybody else any views on priests being paid for funerals/weddings/letters of freedom etc. Do they know there is a recession on? Why don't the Dioces issue guidelines on this?


 
Priests have to live as well and in many dioceses they've taken a pay cut like much of the rest of the country. I can't comment on other parishes, but I know in my own parish, they often refuse to take money, especially if they know the person does not have a lot of it


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## TLC (4 Aug 2009)

Mathpac: don't think it's really letting off steam - just making a point.
Mpsox:  Don't see to many priests suffering in this country & have NEVER seen a priest refuse money - again not letting off steam - making a point


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## sparkeee (4 Aug 2009)

a steamy point!


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## mathepac (4 Aug 2009)

TLC said:


> Mathpac: don't think it's really letting off steam - just making a point....


Shooting The Breeze then?


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## liaconn (6 Aug 2009)

TLC said:


> I think it's such a disgrace that priests need to be paid - surely €10 or €20 is more than enough to donate? Anybody else any views on priests being paid for funerals/weddings/letters of freedom etc. Do they know there is a recession on? Why don't the Dioces issue guidelines on this?


 
Why is it a disgrace? Do you think the church heats itself, paints itself, repairs itself etc? The money is not for the priest, its a donation towards the upkeep of the parish.


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2009)

liaconn said:


> Why is it a disgrace? Do you think the church heats itself, paints itself, repairs itself etc? The money is not for the priest, its a donation towards the upkeep of the parish.


 
Whilst this may be true, the catholic church in Ireland is not exactly short of money as far as I can see. Plenty of priests near me with housekeepers, nice cars etc. If individual parishes struggle, surely the money should be spead around a bit?


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## Graham_07 (6 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> Whilst this may be true, the catholic church in Ireland is not exactly short of money as far as I can see. Plenty of priests near me with housekeepers, nice cars etc. If individual parishes struggle, surely the money should be spead around a bit?


 

There are 4 priests in our parish. Each of them lives in a large 2 storey house. The properties are owned by the parish. I cannot see why, if nuns, brothers in religious orders live in one dwelling, the same cannot be done for priests. There would be savings all round, release of capital ( when property times were good ) on disposal of unnecessary houses and no duplication of repairs , heating etc. I have never understood the need for this way of living.


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## liaconn (6 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> Whilst this may be true, the catholic church in Ireland is not exactly short of money as far as I can see. Plenty of priests near me with housekeepers, nice cars etc. If individual parishes struggle, surely the money should be spead around a bit?


 
The money is spread around. Why do you object to paying for the use of the church for weddings, Christenings etc? People who go to Mass every Sunday contribute on a weekly basis to the upkeep of the Church and Parish which is why you have a nice Church for your Weddings and Holy Communions and so on. We don't object and also make a donation when we use the Church for a special occasion, but I know so many people who just use the Church now and again and go mad when they're asked to make a contribution. It just seems a bit mean to me. And priests may have housekeepers, but that's because they're on call 24/7. They still need to eat, and live in clean accommodation.


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2009)

liaconn said:


> The money is spread around. Why do you object to paying for the use of the church for weddings, Christenings etc? People who go to Mass every Sunday contribute on a weekly basis to the upkeep of the Church and Parish which is why you have a nice Church for your Weddings and Holy Communions and so on. We don't object and also make a donation when we use the Church for a special occasion, *but I know so many people who just use the Church now and again and go mad when they're asked to make a contribution. It just seems a bit mean to me.* And priests may have housekeepers, but that's because they're on call 24/7. They still need to eat, and live in clean accommodation.


 
Personally, I don't use any church for anything.

But I can understand your frustration, highlighted.

It just seems a bit rich to me that in addition to collections for the upkeep of the church, there are also donations.  If the church/parish is in such dire need you would think that things like housekeepers, new cars and the rest should be looked at before the pockets of parishioners.

For example, in the COI (who I'm certain have a lot less money than the RC church) there is no culture or expectation of 'donations' or the like at all. Only at standard collections do parishioners contribute to the upkeep of the church/parish.   

As for priests needing housekeepers because they are on call 24/7, please, c'mon.


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## Graham_07 (6 Aug 2009)

liaconn said:


> And priests may have housekeepers, but that's because they're on call 24/7. They still need to eat, and live in clean accommodation.


 
On our parish there is one mobile phone for all 4 priests and whoever is on call that week gets the phone. The other three are not on 24/7 for that week. Additionally, I believe only 1 of the 4 has a housekeeper. Those days are dying out too. We all need to eat work and live in clean accommodation. I dont think that has anything to do with the matter of donations.


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## liaconn (6 Aug 2009)

Well, in my parish there are only two priests and they are run ragged. The Parish Priest is old and in bad health. I do not grudge him a woman coming in for a couple of hours a day to hoover and make him a dinner. If people object to paying towards the upkeep of the Church and and the Priests, then don't use the Church and you won't be bothered for any money by  them.


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## truthseeker (6 Aug 2009)

Ill just stick my head up above the parapet and mention:

Youre all talking about this as though the Catholic Church should be concerned about its parishioneers and not take money off them without good reason.

At what point will it dawn that the Catholic Church, and any other organised religion, is organised for 2 reasons only:
(1) to make money
(2) to gain power

I can see the conversation with the Pope now:
'Listen the people of Ireland think that with the recession and all that that they shouldnt have to fork out for a donation for the priest on top of the housekeeper and new car and fine house he has - what do you think?'.
Answer: 'oh well, keep getting the donations off who you can then'.

Now I will lower my head again and wait for the backlash, I have in the past been accused of extreme disrespect for making honest comments about organised religion so for anyone who is offended with my above imaginary conversation with the pope - please take it as intended, humourously.

Oh and just to add, I happen to agree with Liaconn, if youre signing up to the whole religion thing and expect the church to be there for you for your special occasions and a priest to do the duties etc....then why complain when asked to make a donation. If you dont like it, dont use the church.


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## liaconn (6 Aug 2009)

Hi Truthseeker

I agree with 99% of the remarks you make on these boards. However, we will have to disagree as regards religion .


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## truthseeker (6 Aug 2009)

liaconn said:


> Hi Truthseeker
> 
> I agree with 99% of the remarks you make on these boards. However, we will have to disagree as regards religion .


 
But note Im still in agreement with you that if people dont like donating - then dont use the church!!


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## liaconn (6 Aug 2009)

Duly noted. Thanks.


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## carpedeum (6 Aug 2009)

Had a similar situation. Explained to the priest that our extended family had decided to stop all donations a few years ago due to the various abuse allegations etc. He was happy with us making a donation to St V De P and coming to our post mass family barbeque! We then gave him a good bottle of wine on leaving! There are many good and Christian priests in the RC Church, but, we shouldn't contribute to the Church's legal fees. I drive by the Archbishops acres and All Hallows in Drumcondra every day! Why not sell this and use the funds property. Give it to Fr McVerry and similar great priests who are actually making a difference to lives of the weaker members of our society.


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## Mpsox (7 Aug 2009)

I'm going to defend housekeepers first as my mother in law is one, (and yes, she does make a fine cup of tea.) The house has 3 priests living in it, one a bit doddery (and she's heard all the Fr Ted jokes) but there are usually guests staying there as well, eg missionery priests/nuns/students visiting the parish or parish dinners/events she has to organise, eg, after the confirmation/communion the parish puts lunch on for all of the teachers involved, which is a lot of work but appreciated as a way of saying thanks.

My Parish is a cathedral one and costs in excess of €550k a year to run. That includes the cost of running the cathedral, community centre(used by many local groups at a subsidised rate), parish office, light, heat, insurance, accountants etc and many of the costs a normal business would have. I don't think people actually always appreciate the costs involved. Sunday church collections only bring in around €200k. Therefore the rest has to be made up elsewhere, lottos, sponsership, other collections, donations etc. Fund raising is becoming almost a full time job in itself

If people don't like paying for it, don't go, simple as that


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## Caveat (7 Aug 2009)

Mpsox said:


> If people don't like paying for it, don't go, simple as that


 
I agree with yourself and Liaconn on this.

BTW I only brought up housekeepers as an example but my overall point is that the church, as a whole, has money at it's disposal, or that can freed up one way or another.  I'm not saying parishioners shouldn't contribute at all but...

Put it this way, as (I'm guessing) a regular mass goer, does it not bother you a bit that your church parish struggles to break even but that the church, as a whole, would rather ask you, repeatedly (via not only collections but these 'donations' in question) to fund it even though funding could be probably be provided if there was the will or inclination?


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## Mpsox (7 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> Put it this way, as (I'm guessing) a regular mass goer, does it not bother you a bit that your church parish struggles to break even but that the church, as a whole, would rather ask you, repeatedly (via not only collections but these 'donations' in question) to fund it even though funding could be probably be provided if there was the will or inclination?


 
In fairness, they diocese does make a contribution. However most of any diocese assets is tied up in fixed assets and perhaps the one thing we've learnt in the current receession in Ireland is that fixed assts does not necessarily equate to income. Even if they went off and sold their assets, this is a finite supply and will run out eventually. 

People may not also realise the contributions made by Parishes in other areas, for example, some Parishes pay for the phone in the school and contribute to other bills, I know of one that paid €30k this year as it's contribution to a school building project. I know some people will say " so they should" given their position in the education system but that money still has to come from somewhere

The reality is, it all costs money and as I said before, if you're not prepared to pay your share, then don't get involved. If you can't afford to pay your share, that's different, but you can get involved in other areas instead, volunteering for example for the Vincent de Paul or other church supported activitie


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## franmac (9 Aug 2009)

decembersal said:


> Hi Guys,
> I have asked my local church to say a mass for the first anniversary of a relative. The Sacristan never mentioned anything re. donations. I was just wondering what the norm is?
> Cheers
> DS



I stopped having masses said by my local parish about thirty years ago for a couple of reasons first one...young man killed in car crash had a girlfriend and very young baby which was accepted and treasured by both families.

Funeral service in church the curate did the service and when the names of the greiving family were mentioned there was no inclusion of the baby and his mother it was just his immediate family even though she was in among them.

Another reason was because that same priest announced in church one day that the cost of masses were going up from 3 pounds to 5.

This same poor curate had a psoriasis problem and had to head for the sun for relief for a couple of months.


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## liaconn (10 Aug 2009)

franmac said:


> I stopped having masses said by my local parish about thirty years ago for a couple of reasons first one...young man killed in car crash had a girlfriend and very young baby which was accepted and treasured by both families.
> 
> Funeral service in church the curate did the service and when the names of the greiving family were mentioned there was no inclusion of the baby and his mother it was just his immediate family even though she was in among them.
> 
> ...


 
I can accept you feeling angry and annoyed with this particular priest (who sounds very insensitive even taking into account the different moral climate 30 years ago). But I presume he's long gone from the Parish now, so why are you still basing your actions around the bad behaviour of one individual from a long time ago?


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## franmac (10 Aug 2009)

liaconn said:


> I can accept you feeling angry and annoyed with this particular priest (who sounds very insensitive even taking into account the different moral climate 30 years ago). But I presume he's long gone from the Parish now, so why are you still basing your actions around the bad behaviour of one individual from a long time ago?



On the second point I made I thought it was disgraceful that the clergy could 
put a price on saying a mass which at that time they said a lot more than they do now and the mass a person paid for was going to be said as part of the priest's job or vocation.

A donation of how much one can afford is surely the way it should be and most people would abide by that.


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## Ash 22 (12 Aug 2009)

Our local priest often talks about people getting married that he has not seen and will not see in Church again for quite awhile and he genuinely feels very sad about as he says "using" the Church when they need it and everything has to be just right for them on their big day and I agree with him.


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## Caveat (12 Aug 2009)

As a matter of interest, do posters here defending the concept of donations genuinely believe that the money is always used for the upkeep of the church and doesn't sometimes get misdirected?


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## truthseeker (12 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> As a matter of interest, do posters here defending the concept of donations genuinely believe that the money is always used for the upkeep of the church and doesn't sometimes get misdirected?


 
Course it gets sometimes gets misdirected!! We had a parish priest who used to joke in the bookies that he was spending the collection money on a little flutter. 

If people are handing donation money over with no receipts given then you can be 100% sure that not all of that money finds its way to its intended purpose. However, where is it written that donations are for the upkeep for the church only?


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## Caveat (12 Aug 2009)

truthseeker said:


> However, where is it written that donations are for the upkeep for the church only?


 
Nowhere that I know of - but it seems to be what some posters believe.


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## liaconn (12 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> As a matter of interest, do posters here defending the concept of donations genuinely believe that the money is always used for the upkeep of the church and doesn't sometimes get misdirected?


 

Obviously I can't speak for every single priest, but my mother is involved in her Parish Church and donations there are certainly not 'misdirected'. I would believe that the majority of donations are used to proper effect.

I agree with Ash's comment re some people just 'using' the Church. I have even heard people say 'they should be glad we're getting married in the Church'. Why, if it means nothing to them except a picturesque background?


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## franmac (12 Aug 2009)

Caveat said:


> As a matter of interest, do posters here defending the concept of donations genuinely believe that the money is always used for the upkeep of the church and doesn't sometimes get misdirected?



My personal opinion is that the collections go towards the church but mass cards and weddings etc go to the priest who conducts the ceremony.

From a small town where the whole population attends funerals and if one third of them pays for mass cards from the two priests in the parish when will they ever get time to say them?


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## Ash 22 (13 Aug 2009)

I presume they will include a number of people in each Mass or do they send some of the money to mission priests to say the Masses? Think they did that before.


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## Ciaraella (21 Aug 2009)

Personally i've no objection to donations for marriages etc, as others have said if you don't want to pay then don't go to a church. However i thought it was a bit outrageous when i heard that a local church was charging €1000 for marriages, imo due to it's picturesque location and long waiting list whereas another larger (and presumably therefore more expensive to maintain) church was charging €300. My cynical mind thinks they may be taking advantage of the popularity of the church.


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## liaconn (21 Aug 2009)

My old parish church was very small and picturesque and, consequently, loads of people from other parishes wanted to get married there. It was getting to the stage where the priests were just run off their feet performing wedding ceremonies. Eventually, they made a rule that if a couple were not from the Parish and wished to use the Church they would have to organise their own Priest to perform the ceremony. I think that made sense as opposed to looking for extra money.


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