# secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pupils



## bananas (8 Feb 2009)

I have two children in secondary school, the school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 

Their primary school looked for €100 per family per annum, and always with a letter explaining exactly what the money was needed for, heating, new books etc.  

The attitude of the secondary school seems so much more arrogant, i've always paid up to now but this year with pay cuts etc I'm tempted to pay a reduced amount.  

Are other families paying up in full?

 I'm concerned that my non payment might be taken out in some way against my kids.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

As a primary school principal I gave up asking for 'voluntary contributions' a few years back ..... my philosophy being that Irish Education should be free and without any of these 'voluntary contributions'.

Even when I was asking for the contribution I only asked for €20 per pupil with a reduced amount being asked if the family had more than two children attending.

Parents subsidising Irish education should never be condoned.

You want my advice ..... don't pay it.

If a school calls it voluntary .... then you are within your rights not to pay it. If you sign up for a book rental scheme ... that's different .... you pay a fee and you gain not having the expense of buying books.

€880 per annum to attend school is scandalous. 

Schools get grant aid for heating etc. If the school can't budget they are either not capable of managing their funds or they need to show their books to the DES to prove that the grant aid they receive isn't enough.

€880 is better in your pocket than in the coffers of a school that has the audacity to ask for such an amount.

Parents need to get real .... stop funding schools .... that's the job of the Department of Education!


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## mercman (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*



PaddyBloggit said:


> As a primary school principal I gave up asking for 'voluntary contributions' a few years back ..... my philosophy being that Irish Education should be free



Apologies for kinda Hijacking this, but why oh why, each and every time there is some kind of discussions or cutbacks, the Primary Schools Union (INTO) are all over the Media like a broken record, moaning and groaning about the lack of money. And the Secondary Teachers Union (TUI) are a fine chorus in the backdrop.

So Paddy, you have confirmed it. The teachers and schools have ample and plenty ... and you're a Principal.


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## DrMoriarty (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*



mercman said:


> So Paddy, you have confirmed it. The teachers and schools have ample and plenty ... and you're a Principal.


 I didn't hear Paddy say that at all.


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## cleverclogs7 (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I get the same letter every month primery school.my 8 yr old and 3 yr old both attend.the 3 yr old only goes for 2 hours a day called early start.every month they ask for 'voluntary contributions' and if you dont pay the child is sent home with a reminder letter.which bugs me.i can only pay 20e a month (10 each) maybe the schools should look up the word VOLUNTARY


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## mathepac (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*



DrMoriarty said:


> I didn't hear Paddy say that at all.


But he did say - 





PaddyBloggit said:


> ... Schools ... are either not capable of managing their funds or they need to show their books to the DES to prove that the grant aid they receive isn't enough...


so either manage what they have or apply for more, but don't exercise the softer option of putting the arm on parents.


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## DrMoriarty (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I agree entirely with Paddy about not paying it, but I don't agree that (all?) 'the teachers and schools have ample and plenty'. Nor do I think that he implied that.

'Voluntary' contributions should be neither necessary nor solicited. If education was properly funded. But that's a whole other can of worms...


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I never said schools have enough funds. Considering the amount of grant aid received by schools some go way beyond the call of duty in the number of opportunities they provide for the children in their care. And a lot of these opportunities are provided through 'voluntary' contributions and fund raising.

With regard to funding:

All schools receive grant aid based on their pupil enrolment. There is a minimum grant for primary schools with 60 pupils and under.

When times were tough parents were asked for voluntary contributions or the Parents' Association was drafted in to fund raise.

The Celtic Tiger era saw an increase in the number and variety of grants provided by the DES to schools.

I'm taking about Primary Schools here .... I've no experience of the secondary school system ... only that they receive a substantial amount more per pupil than Primary Schools do .... we still have the same running costs etc. though. A 1st year pupil is worth more in the eyes of the DES than a 6th class pupil.

During the Celtic Tiger era I made a decision not to ask for 'voluntary' contributions and it's a decision that I'm not going to reverse even in these changing times.

Parents propping up schools is letting the DES shirk its responsibilities.

Re. the INTO and its 'moaning and groaning re. funding in schools' .... the INTO is 100% correct. We have a brilliant curriculum but the money isn't and wasn't there to implement it properly. Fuel and general running costs eat into available funds and they have to be paid out of the same general fund that the equipment/consumables etc. for the curriculum subjects come out of. Sometimes, even with the best fiscal management in the world some schools will have difficulty balancing the books.

Location, size etc. can all impact on the running costs of the school. For example some schools have to spend a fortune on security, alarms etc. while others of a similar size don't have any alarms or security so this is a cost that they never have to bear.

A big expense on schools is the introduction of the water charges .... a charge that wasn't there a few years back is now crippling some schools especially the larger ones.

The system needs reform. But the reform needs to come from the DES down.

My gripe with contributions being asked for is in the use of the word 'voluntary'. This word indicates choice.

We all have free will .... your choice is to contribute or not.

If you're happy to contribute .... do with a smile.

If not .... politely refuse and hold onto your cash.


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## DrMoriarty (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*



paddybloggit said:


> parents propping up schools is letting the des shirk its responsibilities.
> [...]we all have free will .... Your choice is to contribute or not.


+1


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## BoscoTalking (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

if they can't be bothered telling you what its for then i think you should file it in the recycling where it belongs. Its easier to send out begging letters to parents than producing and publishing accounts to accompany a request for contributions to so a parent can make an informed decision to contribute if they want to. 
Maybe schools got the money easily in the last few years and feel they don't have to bother?


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## Diziet (8 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

My daughter's school send a summary of how much money came in and how it was spent. They ask for €250 per pupil, although I think it is less if you have more than 1 at the school. They also send a tax form out, so they get a tax rebate. It is voluntary, and one year I forgot to pay it they did send a reminder, but the reminder also said it was voluntary. 440 is very very high, so I think you should pay what you feel you can and politely inform them that that is all you can do this year. Voluntary means exactly that!


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## Bubbly Scot (9 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I'm torn on the whole "voluntary" contribution thing. We recently moved our youngest to a school which recently introduced a VC of €150 per family. While it was much higher than her previous school I don't mind paying it as I think the school are providing her with a good education, pleasant learning environment and they don't seem to overcharge for the "extras" like swimming and music.

My eldest daughters school however is a completely different story! Admittedly the VC is smaller there but I've lost track of the amount of money we've shelled out for "extras". They even had the audacity to charge for an aptitude type test she can do online for free.

I don't think we as parents should be supporting the education system to the extent we are but I don't want MY children to suffer while I make a point. I don't think the primary school would make an issue of non payment but I know for sure the secondary school would.


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## AnnieC (9 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

As part of my teenage rebellious phase, I threw the letter my secondary school sent re VC in the bin and told my parents not to pay a penny, as it was "voluntary".  

A few weeks later, in comes a letter by post as a "reminder" that the VC was yet to be paid.  A few weeks after that, another letter from the school saying if we were struggling to pay the VC there were payment options available to us.

In answer to your first post OP, I don't think the school would take it out on your kids for non-payment but they might approach them (like I was!) just asking how things were at home.  This was 10 years ago now so things might be different these days.

HTH


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## Padraigb (9 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

Two points:
1. Many schools are under financial pressure in trying to provide even the basic requirements;
2. Parent contributions are voluntary.

A parent should weigh those points for him or herself, and decide how much to give.

I think that a letter from the school and one reminder is sufficient. Anything more is too much. 

It is seriously wrong for a a school to treat a child differently because a parent can or will not make a voluntary donation. That's one I would fight vigorously.


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## Bronte (9 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

Maybe I'm alone on this but I think that in a country of free education letters shoud not be sent to parents looking for voluntary contributions full stop. I can't believe people/schools have the neck to send reminders. It's just plain wrong to send the letters in the first place.


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## purpeller (10 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I used to get so mad about these "voluntary contributions" when I was at school.  I tried to convince my parents not to pay every year of secondary school but they were afraid it would blacklist me in the school.

Strangely enough, if the school was to have a fund raiser,  I'd be much more willing to contribute money than with this sort of tactic.


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## bananas (10 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

Thanks for replies, one of the main reasons I posted is that there seems to be a conspiracy of silence around this contribution so I wanted to get the views of others.  Other secondary schools in the area seem to charge less but I can see no noticeable difference between these schools and my childrens school.  I think I will pay something but not the full amount and also raise the matter of accounts being provided with the parents association.


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## jamieb (12 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

My younger son is in 6th class and we have always been asked for this kind of contribution.  As I knew one of parents in the parents association I asked what was appropriate and at the start when my son was in Junior Infants it was 50 pounds and now it is 100euro.    I have always paid apart from last year when my circumstances didnt permit it and we got the reminder letter home but what always stuck in my head was the person from the association was able to tell me that if they could depend on everyone giving a small amount it would be fine but some people just woudlnt not that they couldnt but just refused to give anything.    I feel the school is always looking for something even at Christmas the kids are under pressure to sell tickets which are 5euro a ticket for really naff prizes.  We have said a number of times if there were double the amount of tickets at half the price the kids would sell them.  I have a small family and with tickets going around for everything at that time of year I end up paying for the book myself but Christmas gone I just didnt.  We have suggested colour days where the children can wear their own clothes and pay a fee which would at least make it intersting but the principle downright refuses.  Then last week they were told they had to give 10euro from their confirmation money to a particular charity chosen by the school.  My son gave 20eu to a different charity of our choice which we support and after they continually chased him for the 10 euro even after he explained I wrote a note to explain where I had given the money.  I am awaiting a receipt as it is a guy in work whos wife works there, anyway I was told in a return note that it was an agreed amount and the cheque had already been written.  I am gobsmacked.


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## allthedoyles (12 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

I pay by Direct Debit ............Why should our local school suffer because of Government failures


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## Willowchase (12 Feb 2009)

*Re: secondary school looks for a "voluntary" contribution of €440 each per year. 2 pu*

We already pay for education through our taxes.

 The government like to talk about how great our education system is and all the money they're pouring into it, and of course it's free!! Truth is it's only half funded and would probably collapse entirely without the 'voluntary' contributions of parents and other fundraising.

The notion of free education is a joke. Look at free college fees with registration fees of €1,500. A bit like removing the motor tax from cars etc. and replacing it with a nominal registration fee. 

We  may be one of the lowest taxed nations in the world but probably the highest levied.

It's all a joke and the joke is on us.


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