# Child Maintenance



## Ann84

Hi,

I have been reading a number of threads on child maintenance and have a question that i could do with some feedback on;
I have a 3 year old daughter and am in full-time employment, on a graduate programme so salary is not great and the hours are long. At present i live away from any family so have no support and rely heavily on my daughter's father for help (when i have to work late or early).
He has her 2 nights a week and only pays half her child care and nothing else. i am seriously struggling to support myself and my daughter. He refuses to pay anything else towards her care and tells me that if i have a problem with it, that he will take her more and i can pay him maintenance. Because i need his help (due to work collecting her/ dropping her to creche) i feel trapped and afraid to push the maintenance issue but i'm getting desperate.
Can anyone give me some advice? 
I keep hearing that 75euro is the average maintenance but her creche alone is 184per week so he pays 92per week already, but that just goes straight into childcare. 
Is it right that he can not pay maintenance on the basis of access?


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## thedaras

I think its a fair amount that he pays 92e and takes her 2 days a week,not bad,you also say you rely on him to take her when you work late or early.sounds like hes doing his bit.
But lets imagine for a moment that he has her.
You would go to work,pay him 92e a week ,take the child 2 days a week,(you may have to work on those two days and pay childcare) be there also when he works late or early,maybe this would suit you better?would you pay for more?would you be able to pay more?where would you get the money ?
why should he have to pay to see his child?dont get that one.
I would agreee that he should pay any costs involved though,in her upbringing.
Do you mean that he should pay half the rent/morgage?
Would she be happier being with her dad as if as you say you work long hard hours ,shes in a creche,he takes her 2 days a week plus when you work early and late,when do you get to spend time with her?sounds like she spends her life in a creche,or in her dads.
Sorry now i dont mean to be harsh,but I think you are very lucky to have your childs father take her so often and pay half the creche fees.what else exactly are you looking for?And where is he going to get the time to work the extra hours needed to pay more ,when he already has the child 2 days a week and seems like hes available to you at the drop of a hat..


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## Ann84

Thanks for the reply,

I don't think i was very clear. I do work long hours but Monday to Friday. He takes her 2 nights a week and i mind her for 5 and i do not want to change that arrangement as it is a good routine for her, as she has stability. When i say i need his help, it's in relation to collecting her occasionally form creche.
My issue is that he does not pay for her upbringing, only childcare and uses the fact that i need his support in minding her to not pay any money towards her actual costs and when i ask for more financial support he uses access and custody to threaten me not to push it, this cannot be right?


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## thedaras

But you did say he would mind her when you work late and early...so that would mean he does collect her and bring her to the creche unless im missing something.
can he afford to pay more?

How about calling his bluff and let the child live with him and you give him half the creche fees.He would soon see how difficult and expensive it is and you use the same threats as him re access and custody.That may be the wake up call he needs
I know someone who is a lone parent and the guy gives her 50e a week ,but she doesnt work and he cant afford to pay more


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## rebel16

thedaras said:


> How about calling his bluff and let the child live with him and you give him half the creche fees.


 
I wouldn't go about trying to call his bluff with the jeopardy of losing access to your child. From the sound of it, he is being totally un-reasonable(although I have only your view here). It is only fair that he pays for half of the daily cost of his child, including childcare fees.


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## GreenQueen

The €75 figure that is quoted in relation to child maintenance is the recommended minimum in the District Court.  The District Court can award a maximum of €150 per week but a minimum of €75 per week is recommended but lower amounts can be awarded.

The reason for this is that child maintenance is based on the needs of the child and the means of each parent to support the child.  The easiest way to understand how much you need to adequately support your child on a day to day basis (including childcare) is to go to www.solo.ie and find the excel spreadsheet under the maintenance section.  This is an extremely helpful tool and a good starting point for agreeing a fair amount for everyone concerned.

HTH


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## Ann84

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, I filled out the excel on solo.ie and based on the results, i have decided to make an appointment with a solicitor. 
I am petrified that this will cause trouble and my job will suffer if he refuses to help with collecting etc. but i have no choice.
I just want him to halp pay for clothes and food, nothing ridiculous, just half, thats it!
If anyone has any advice on the process of seeking maintenance through the courts before next week, please let me know?
Also, can he argue for more custody for less maintenance? i don't want the custody arrangement to change and know this is the route he will take and it is unclear what the relationship between them is in court?


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## GreenQueen

Hi Ann,

Maintenance and access cannot be dependent on one another.  This means that you can't withhold access if the maintenance is not paid and you can't withhold maintenance if the non-custodial parent isn't getting access to their child.

However there is an argument to be made for a reduction in maintenance if the non-custodial parent is awarded access which is over and above the "norm" or if they have the child a considerable part of the week.

Even if you take into account that he would have the child more - you still have shared child related expenses that you both need to meet.  For starters clothes, education, childcare etc, etc.  If the current access arrangement works for you but he isn't meeting his side of the agreement then I would doubt that any well balanced judge would favour increasing access.  he needs to meet his current responsibilities on a regular and consistent basis before he can be considered for an increase!


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## Ann84

Many thanks for the response.
At present, she stays with me 5 nights and with him for 2, although i try to be flexible and he does the same but you are confirming what i believe to be correct, that he should pay more than just childcare when i look after EVERY other financial responsibility alone.
I will pursue this but i do wonder why these issues are not clearly drafted somewhere? 
Is there a definitive piece of legislation or information that outlines maintenance based on % of income or something and clarifies a consistant reduction for nights of access? 
If there isn't, its something that is sorely needed.


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## UptheDeise

It is not right that you should look after every other expense. He needs to start acting like a man and pay for his child.

Can you not talk to him? Can you not point out the solo site?

I would only use a solictor when all the options have run out.

BTW, the courts are on your side.


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## babyspice

i personally think you are making a mistake going through the courts, even tho he should be paying more in fairness he is doing his bit, so if it goes to court he will stick to his 2days a week with her and you'll have to bring her up and down to creche yourself..


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## GreenQueen

Ann84 said:


> Many thanks for the response.
> At present, she stays with me 5 nights and with him for 2, although i try to be flexible and he does the same but you are confirming what i believe to be correct, that he should pay more than just childcare when i look after EVERY other financial responsibility alone.
> I will pursue this but i do wonder why these issues are not clearly drafted somewhere?
> Is there a definitive piece of legislation or information that outlines maintenance based on % of income or something and clarifies a consistant reduction for nights of access?
> If there isn't, its something that is sorely needed.



AFAIK there is no legislation or information that outlines maintenance etc, etc.  All family court judgements are made in camera so you never actually get to see what the norm is.  However there is a publication issued quarterly by the courts called Family Law Matters and it can be found under publications on www.courts.ie 

The only obligation on parents wrt maintenance is that parents are required to maintain their children equally.  Technically this means that each parent should contribute half of the amount needed to maintain their child on a day to day basis.  So for example if your ex contributes €300 per month, you should be matching this amount.  Add child benefit into the equation and you should have a sum of €766 per month to maintain a child over 5.  I say technically because if you have a stay at home parent providing fulltime childcare for their child/ren then you have a situation where the non-custodial parent might be required to pay more maintenance as the custodial parent cannot work if they are providing fulltime childcare and therefore can't contribute equally.  

Look, you have a situation where the maintenance you receive isn't matching your child's needs and the access agreed isn't working out.  You have 2 options.  First off you can go to court and take it down a very antagonistic route or you can go to family mediation services and agree something between yourselves.  If you were able to agree it between yourselves it would be far better for your child in the long run.  Would you consider family mediation?


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## 345Jabber

You need to draw up a weekly chart of costs relating to the child i.e. food/clothes/childcare and divide by 2 to give a rough estimate of your spend, do bare in mind though that you are getting child benefit support, plus if the child is under 6 the child supplement so don't by expecting much more money.

child benefit 160*12 = 1920
child supplement 900
current support 92*52 =  4784

So currently your already getting = 7604 per annum for 1 child

If you add to the fact you should be contributing half you add another 4784 this brings the total to 12388 after tax which too me is a lot of money, for 5 out of 7 days a week.
I currently have 3 kids and if I was spending this figure it would equate to @39k a year after tax before monies for myself and wife. 

Don't mean to be mean but sometimes emotions can blurr the picture, child maintenance is a shared burden, imagine if you were living together would you still be spending figures like these on the child.

Are you claiming lone parents allowance, if you're on a low income are you entitled to any other SW payments.


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## carrielou

Ann84,

In my opinion, unless your little girls dad is absolutely loaded, and getting an enormous amount in salary, I cant really see a court giving you more than what you are already getting.

€92 per week is a good amount of maintenance and in my experience you are doing fairy good to be getting this.

You need to look at SW maybe helping you. Have you applied for FIS.  Is your ex claiming his Single Parent Tax Credit.

Maybe have a look down this road before you go to a court.

You are only €57 off the max maintenance so unless, as I said, your little girls dad is loaded, you may not get much more, if any, and in the process you may well rock the boat with him.

Believe me, and I am sure many Mammy's on their own would agree, you are not doing too bad with the €92 and with the help he gives you.


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## Bronte

OP what salary are you on?  What salary is the father on, does he have a house/wife/other children/dependants etc you would need to give these figures/information so that your financial circumstances can be more properly assessed.  You do say you're in full time employments so you must have at the least the minimum wage. 

I would avoid court if at all possible especially as the father has such a good relationship with his child.


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## GreenQueen

345Jabber said:


> child benefit 160*12 = 1920
> child supplement 900
> current support 92*52 =  4784
> 
> So currently your already getting = 7604 per annum for 1 child
> 
> If you add to the fact you should be contributing half you add another 4784 this brings the total to 12388 after tax which too me is a lot of money, for 5 out of 7 days a week.



Jabber your figures are slightly wrong - they should read as follows:
Child benefit 166 x 12 = 1992
Early Supplement 1000 p/a
Current Support of 92 x 52 = 4784

The total income for the purposes of the child (if the op provides an equal amount would therefore be €12,560 per annum.

While I agree with your comment about spending this amount on a child that is with you permanently however if you have to place a baby into fulltime creche care you can expect to pay approximately €1,000 per month - there would be very little left over from the child after that.  On the other hand the going rate for childminders at present (in my area) would be approximately €750 per month so there would be money left over at the end of the month if the OP considered using a childminder.

Carrielou, just to point out that the maintenance being received is below the allowable limit in the District Court.  Higher amounts can be awarded if you take a child/spousal maintenance case to the Circuit Court.


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## 345Jabber

Probably proves my point that the lady in question will not see much more money even if she does go to court, even with child care of @12k it still leaves her own contribution to the childs up keep of 4784 a year to spend even more if the kady in question goes with a childminder. Remember costs need to be split between both parties. 
Carrielou
Just a quick irk, why say "mammy's" what about Dad's who take care of their children why is Ireland so mother centred, I take full and equal responsibility for my children with my wife but if we ever split this would get completely ignored and I'd end up a weekend parent like this individual. Maybe the father here would be in a better position to look after the child, he may possibly equally desire to raise his child fulltime but Irish society just assumes its the mothers birth right


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## carrielou

345Jabber

Exactly probably why I used it. (Irish society)

Personally, I dont agree with the system. Mothers rights, Fathers rights!
What about childrens rights?

They all get to an age to be able to speak for themselves, so why not listen to them


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## Ann84

Hi,
Thanks all. The question of income was asked and at present i am on 27k per annum and he is in the region of 36k. 
I tried to organise mediation but have been on a waiting list since last August and have heard nothing, besides the fact that i think the situation has bypassed mediationat this point.
I don't get any other income apart from child benifit and my salary. As she is staring school this Sept, i feel that the situation cannot continue as is for the next 20 years, i'll be bankrupt. The 92 a week covers childcare ONLY and to say that child benefit would support her other costs every week is not feasable. 
I appreciate that 92 seems like alot, but when it is spent on childcare alone, it doesn't exist as i match that amount also every week. 
It seems that the only way forward at this point is through court even though i don't really want it to be this way but i have tried to be reasonable and it has gotten me nowhere. I want my daughter to be happy, i want her to have food, clothes, toys, activities but i can't afford to give her these things myself and why should i have to anyway. It's not about father's rights or mother's rights, it's simply about being fair in my view so what choice do i have?


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## GreenQueen

Ann will your childcare costs not be reduced once she starts school?  Will this not free up further money for her.

If he is on 36K per annum i would be very surprised if the courts were to award you an increase to be honest.

Please don't take this comment as belittling your situation however I have a baby, I am shortly to be made redundant and will have very little income to spend on them.  My children's allowance and early supplement will pay for everything they need - from food, nappies, clothing etc.  It would be nice to have extra money for toys, activities in the future but if I don't have that money then we will make do.  As my grandmother was fond of saying - you cut your cloth to fit your purse.


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## Ann84

I'm sorry to hear your situation GreenQueen. It is a very difficult position to be in. 
On your points, i take them on board but do wonder if by that logic, maintenance is only a child care allowence and one parent should have to pay the balance alone?
In a marriage situation, i wouldn't like to think thats the case, so why should i have to. If it was the other way around, and he was minding her most of the time and paying for all costs, i am sure that he would expect fair maintenance from me. 
I am concerned however that you think the courts may not grant anymore, i suppose it is a possibility but i do see her expenses remaining the same in Sept as she is starting a paid pre-school and combined with after school care, it works out the same. 
Why should any parent be thankful for just getting half child care paid for if it's still not a fair amount toward the cost of the child?


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## Card

You say her Dad has her twice a week?, so he's already covering the costs for those periods say 2/7th of her costs, so its not really half of the costs that you will be looking for, The periods during which he's in her care, (especially as her well they seem pretty fixed) will be taken into consideration.


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## Ann84

Hi, he does have her 2 nights a week but that does not equate to 2/7ths of her cost at all, it equated to about 10euros worth of food and that's it. Her primary residence is at my home and my problem is that he does not pay for her actual cost (clothes etc...) during those 2 days. It should be fair and buying her food during access is not maintenance. 
Also, is maintence linked to access or not?


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## alaskaonline

i kept silently reading this thread and have to write down my view on it. i am a single mother, too. however due to unfortunate circumstances the father of my child is not around which means im not getting a penny (or a cent ) of him. i still have to pay for child care during the day when im in work, i still have to pay mortgage, bills, buy food, clothes and the whole lot. i am not on a big wage so its not easy to get through the months. i depend on the child benefit and childcare supplement the government is paying me. 
now OP is in a much better position. apart from the state benefits and not just is the father still around - he also pays 92€ a week. from a perfect world p.o.v. i agree that everything should be split 50/50 BUT we dont live in a perfect world and we, as mothers, made the choice to have a child in the 1st place. so it is our duty to look after them and provide for them regardless if the father cougs up or not. full stop. OP should be happy that her daughter's father has an active interest in her little girl and should not make court/ money orders her priority. if you get through dont ask for more unless you, yourself can give it. that's my opinion and yes, im aware that not everyone agrees with me. that's fine,too.


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## Dachshund

Maintenance is not linked to access. 

Nor should it be as it could be used as a threat by one parent over another.

Green Queen already posted this at Reply no. 8 in this thread.


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## Card

maintenance is not linked with access, especially when trying to withhold one becuase the other isn't being adhered to

however reasonable costs which are being met by a parent when the child is in their care/excercising access can be taken into account when accessing any maintenance due


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## Cashstrapped

Ann84 said:


> It seems that the only way forward at this point is through court even though i don't really want it to be this way but i have tried to be reasonable and it has gotten me nowhere. I want my daughter to be happy, i want her to have food, clothes, toys, activities but i can't afford to give her these things myself and why should i have to anyway. It's not about father's rights or mother's rights, it's simply about being fair in my view so what choice do i have?



Of course you have choices but it appears to me that you have set you mind on trying to get more from him via the courts as you feel he is not contributing enough financially to support your child.  From previous experience you will gain very little if anything at all financially by bringing him to court especially on his salary, you are more than likely only to end up with another bill to pay for a solicitor for the day.  You are actually doing very well to be receiving €92 per week, if you ex was to loose his job in the morning the onus would be on you to provide most of the cost relating to your daughters childcare etc and the choice would be taken away from you and no amount of court dates would change the outcome, he can't give you what he doesn't have.

Providing financially is not the only support your child needs, she needs to continue the relationship she has with her father already and I for one would not put a price on something so precious. Think long and hard before you go down the court route, it is the point of no return for alot of couples who choose it over common sense.

You say yourself you want your daughter to be happy, is she happy now as things are? if so why would you want to take a chance on changing that for her, just my personal opinion but I would not play a game of poker with her happiness with the hope of having the winning hand only to end up worse off than when you started.  Good luck with whatever you decide I hope you get the result your looking for.


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## GreenQueen

Ann I've previously answered your question in relation to the links between maintenance and access.

I still think that your childcare costs could be reduced and you could therefore free up some extra money to spend on your dd without having to take your ex-partner back to court.  You need to also bear in mind that if your ex-partner is contributing half the costs of the childcare he should be entitled to have a say in your choices.  Don't be surprised if he comes up with an alternate, cheaper option such as the child being minded by a relation as opposed to a formal childminding relationship.


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## Ann84

Hi all,
I have to admit that i feel a bit frustrated. I completely agree that my daughter's relationship with her father is very important, she's mad about him but i don't agree that their relationship is related to maintenance either, if he didn't see her at all i would still expect him to pay maintence. It is very unfair to suggest that i would intentionally try to damage their relationship but why should i be held to ransom by that. Is the onus not as much on him to maintain his relationship with her both in person AND financially.
You are possibly right but his lack of support is going to limit her oppertunities and is that not also detrementle and irresponsible as a parent?
All i know is that i am the parent on the lesser income and yet i am supporting her to the greater extent and i don't want this to continue throughout her childhood.
He bought an apartment for 340,000 last year, and i rent a tiny house with no central heating because it is all i can afford, i want to move to better accomodation but without him taking some of her costs, it won't happen and it is not a level playing field in my view.


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## 345Jabber

Ann84
In your own comment "I appreciate that 92 seems like alot, but when it is spent on childcare alone, it doesn't exist as i match that amount also every week." is your answer I'm afraid, the father can't or won't see the other actual costs unless written down. 
If you really feel you deserve more you need to draw up hard facts and figures, i.e. feeding the child costs, clothing the child costs etc and present these to the father and say here is how much extra I'm paying but remember you're (repeating myself) already getting additional monies which need to be added in first and then the difference divided by 2. 
Taking these additional monies first you're already getting @50-60 a week from the state so how much more would you consider fair bearing in mind if you expect him to you say €50 extra then that assumes you're also contributing an extra €50, personally @100 a week would be most you'd be spending on a child so if you're lucky you may get an additional €20 a week at most.
As for previous posts stating the father may get more say, this is a right he has already!!!!


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## truthseeker

OP - are you actually getting money from the state as well as money from your ex?


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## GreenQueen

truthseeker said:


> OP - are you actually getting money from the state as well as money from your ex?



Do you mean on top of children's allowance which I think Jabber is referring to?

All children under 5 in the state receive €57.54 per week and children over 5 receive €38.31 per week.

Jabber in my experience non-custodial parents tend not to rock the boat wrt childcare arrangements/schools etc unless they feel they are not being considered in the arrangements that are made.  I would think that the OP's ex would take a far greater interest in the childcare situation (and other choices) if they were being required to contribute more money. ;(

ETA:
Ann if your ex has the child 2 days out of every 7 would you consider asking him to bear the cost of food and all other items including clothing in his house?  Would that lessen the burden more?  Perhaps ask him to enroll the child in an activity of his choosing on his time and get him to pay for it directly.  I'm aware of a number of separated parents that work this way.


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## Bronte

What is your total income as so far we have

You 
27K
Maintenance of 92 X 52 = 4784
Child allowance of 57.54 X 52 = 2992
Free childcare for 48 hours weekly and more if needed

Ex 

36K
Less 4784 taxed income on maintenance   
Cost of keeping a child on minimum 48 hours weekly


If you said he was on 50 K I could maybe see your point.  How do you think a court is going to look at this?
Your main problem is that you seem to be jealous that he has bought an apartment.  You want him to feel the pain of your poverty.  I could be wrong but that's the impression I'm getting.  If I'm incorrect I apologise.  But he seems like a great dad why jeopardise that.   
However there is one thing I really take issue with and that is you even asking if maintenance is linked to access.


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## alaskaonline

> Child allowance of 57.54 X 52 = 2992


 
if you mean child benefit and supplement it makes a total of 3020€ p.a. (160€ per month child benefit and 91€ per month childcare supplement - these are the current rates)

was a location mentioned here as well? if outside dublin, it would reduce costs such as rent by a bit additional.


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## folly

Hi Ann84

Have you looked into a community creche which would have reduced fees, based on your circumstance?  Find out are there any nearby.

HTH
folly


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## Ann84

Hi,

I live in Cork and rent and childcare is still quite expensive (not on a par with Dublin city) but still city living. 
I had been on an 8 month waiting list for a community creche before i went back to work so i had to put her in private childcare out of neccessity at that stage. Unfortunately she has had to move creche more than once out if circumstance and i would be hesitant to move her between now and Sept to be honest.
I have an advice meeting with a solicitor in a week and if i am told that i am not entitled to anything more and should count my blessings then i will have to look at alternative ways to spread the cost. 
i just feel that there is something wrong witht the situation and i want to clarify that is definately not with any maliceous intent that i am asking these questions and has nothing to do witht the fact that he bought an apartment other than the difference between our standard of living!


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## truthseeker

Ann84,
Im not sure I see where the difference in standard of living is coming from?
Is it that he has more disposable income available than you?

Just from a financial viewpoint you get maintenance from him, you get the state benefit and you have a job yourself. 

I just cant see how his standard of living is such that you feel its unfair - based on the figures presented.

What costs do you mean he should take on more of in relation to your child?


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## Ann84

Hi, 

Thanks for all the feedback, in earlier posts i was told to fill in the solo.ie excel for an idea, which i did accurately and based on that i will pursue maintenance through the courts.
From the responses i have been getting, i am not sure what i will achieve at this point. 
All i know is that i buy clothes, feed her and pay for any and all incurred costs and half of childcare. Granted i get the state benefit but what i spend on her a week is more than matching it (excluding childcare as we both pay it). Also granted that i am lucky that he is iinvolved with her and does pay something but i will not accept that i should allow him to get away with paying less than half her expenses.
If i am not entitled to anything, i am 100% sure the solicitor will tell me that.
I have tried to explain my situation but i don't think i can. I do know that if i bought a house and was paying the amount that he does on a mortgage, i would not be able to support my daughter, but i would never put myself in that position. 
I don't understand why i should have to suffer the financial burdon, isn't it supposed to be equal because it is not at the moment?
I will look at the figures again but something does not add up here. I dont think that court is a good idea and i am in two minds about pursuing it if i am told that he should pay more but i do need to know. From what i can gather, maintenance is not just a childcare payment.


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## truthseeker

Ann84,
Just trying to get a picture of things here - think Im a bit clearer after a reread of the thread.

So he pays half childcare and you pay the other half - so childcare costs are shared.
You buy all clothes, most food, costs (such as medical, treats, toys etc...).
The state monies covers some of clothes/costs etc....
But then the remainder falls to you to pay for.

Here is a practical suggestion:
Ask him to take her shopping for clothes now and again. 
Ask him if you could agree to split large expenses (like medical for instance, doctors bill plus prescriptions, or school uniform when the time comes).

Write down the costs that you incur in an average week (leave childcare out), subtract the state benefit and show him the remainder and point out that he is not contributing to any of it and see what he says?


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## Dachshund

Ann84 - Equality doesn't come into it.

If you have your child for the majority of the time then you will be responsible for the majority of the expense. A previous poster suggested that you give him more access so that he would be responsible for more time and therefore more expense in raising the child. If you really wanted equality then you would agree to this split.

Someone has to take the hit in any parenting relationship. I know of no relationship where both parents spend an equal amount of anything, be it time or money with their child.

However, take a look at this article, A Fair Share? in The Guardian if you really want to try 50/50 parenting.


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## GreenQueen

Ann while I suggested you fill out the solo spreadsheet i also pointed out that maintenance is based on the *means* of each person to meet the cost of the children.  If, as you say, your ex-partner has the responsibility of a such large mortgage then I fail to see how he has the means to increase the maintenance.  You cannot get blood from a stone.

It is not quite as simple as each parent meeting half the cost of raising the child.  He cannot give your child what he does not have.  I should also point out that he might claim that he took on the burden of a mortgage so that he can provide adequate and suitable accommodation for his child when he has his access.

I'm not suggesting that you should be happy with your lot, what I am trying to do is to show you that the chances of you getting an increase is slim.  The most likely outcome of you taking him to court would be to increase bad feeling between yourselves and this will ultimately affect your child.


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## carrielou

Have been thinking about your situation and have kept an eye on posts by all other users.

You seem to have a good enough relationship with your ex and ye both obviously love ye're daughter.

Why dont you ask him would he be able to maybe take her shopping for clothes once in a while.

Maybe help out with birthdays, christmas, days out, things like that.

Just maybe if you approach him with the thought in your head that he loves his little girl as much as you do and in the right frame of mind he might just say, sure no problem.

I understand you might be a bit short on cash, aren't we all, but just the way he will help out with other simple things, he just might help out with clothes and special occasions also.

I wouldn't go the solicitor/court direction because I really dont see you getting anything out of it.


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## Bronte

Ann84 said:


> I don't understand why i should have to suffer the financial burdon, isn't it supposed to be equal because it is not at the moment?
> .


 Unfortunately life is not equal, you cannot think about it as being equal, you have to look at the figures not the fairness.  The figures do not add up to what you are proposing.


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## Mel

carrielou said:


> Have been thinking about your situation and have kept an eye on posts by all other users.
> 
> You seem to have a good enough relationship with your ex and ye both obviously love ye're daughter.
> 
> Why dont you ask him would he be able to maybe take her shopping for clothes once in a while.
> 
> Maybe help out with birthdays, christmas, days out, things like that.
> 
> Just maybe if you approach him with the thought in your head that he loves his little girl as much as you do and in the right frame of mind he might just say, sure no problem.
> 
> I understand you might be a bit short on cash, aren't we all, but just the way he will help out with other simple things, he just might help out with clothes and special occasions also.
> 
> I wouldn't go the solicitor/court direction because I really dont see you getting anything out of it.


 
I'm afraid I'm of the same opinion: I can tell you that I'm a single parent too, and I don't get even 50% of the maintenance that you do. To be fair it was arranged between ourselves, and I do earn more than you. I'd love 2 nights off every week!!  

However, my son's father isn't in our lives, and I think the fact that your ex takes your daughter 2 days/nights a week is a god-send for you. 

I would do as carrielou suggests above, and you know what, I'd also concentrate on my own life and well-being. Take advantage of the 2 nights off to go out and do something for yourself. You deserve it, you sound like a great mother. If things become strained between you and your ex I really think you'd regret it.


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## tick tock

carrielou has given you very sound sensible advice...do try those ideas...your daughter is very fortunate to have him in her life...while i dont think anything would change his relationship with her i think you bringing him to court would make things uncomfortable perhaps in the future between you and him...also i assume you are not married and that means he has no rights regarding his daughter so why dont you mention to him he should have legal guardianship of her.it is important.


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## carrielou

Ann, the situation of separated parents can be so very hard. On parents and child alike.

Many adults use their children and it is so wrong.

Many children dont see their Daddy because Mammy is perhaps bitter.

Many Mammies dont get maintenance, or have to fight tooth and nail continuously to get it because Daddy is bitter.

Think of your daughter, first and foremost. 

In the blink of an eye, and think of me when the day comes, your daughter will be 16, with a fine mind of her own and she will already be a long time asking Mam and Dad for stuff herself. She will chance ye both probably, oh to be a teenager again.

You will be able to stand and say, "no matter how hard it was at times I never took the love of her Dad away".

Not sure I make 100% sense but what I am trying to say is children grow up very fast. Dont rock the boat in a situation that is near on perfect as far as separated parents go. When your daughter is older she can never say, you took my Dad from me.

And yes, many mothers have done this to their children and also many fathers dont care about their children.


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## Ann84

Hi All,

I have been reading the posts above and i do agree that my Daughters happiness comes absolutely first. 
The relationship we have as shared parents i relatively amicable but it's only because i have said little in the way of the money situation except from asking periodically for a little help (with no respinse) but to be honest, the problem is that i am sick of bearing the brunt of the costs. And our relationship will sour if i don't resolve it somehow.
It is the frustration of knowing that i have a poorer standard of living so that he can live securely  will not sit for the rest of my daughters childhood.
If i only even pay an extra 2000euro a year, that 10,000euro more that i will have to pay over the next 10 years! I'm sorry but that is not cool!
That is alot of summer holidays etc... (i would like one at some stage!)
As far as i am concerned, if he was responsible, he would pay towards his childs actual costs and i will not be responsible for the deterioration of our shared parenting relationship because i am being scammed!
He bought his house when our daughter was a year old and moved his best friend in, that was not to benefit my daughter and i don't believe a judge would see it that way. 
He is also a joint guardian which i think is great but it may be only a small amount a week that i am entitled to, but over the next 18-20 years it will add up to be quite alot so i am only going to get more resentful over time as she becomes more expensive.
I will never stop him from seeing her, ever but i do want things to change and i'm shocked that so many posters think it's ok for the custodial parent (male or female) to just 'put up' with it or accept it and never try to resolve it fairly.


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## truthseeker

Ann84 said:


> i'm shocked that so many posters think it's ok for the custodial parent (male or female) to just 'put up' with it or accept it and never try to resolve it fairly.


 
Actually in my reading of this thread I see many suggestions from people that you (a) list the expenses and talk to him about where you are short and (b) ask him explicitly to buy clothes or other items or pay for some activity etc...

It sounds to me as though (and I could be wrong), you are annoyed that your own standard of living is lower than your ex's, but he is not required to maintain your standard of living, just to support his child - which he is doing to some degree and the state is doing to another and you are doing the rest - if you feel 'the rest' is out of proportion - then do the suggestions above.

Is there an issue with talking to the ex directly about it?

Its just quite likely the courts wont actually formally award more, but surely if the relationship is reasonable amicable you can discuss how you feel unfairly treated with him?


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## carrielou

Ann, you sound so cross over this.  Majority of people in this country are probably getting along the lines of €50 to €75 per week in maintenance.

Is his friend paying rent to help with his mortgage.

We are not against you at all pet.  I, for one, just do not think you will get any more money by going into court and all that will happen is that you and your ex will prob have ill feeling toward each other and that in turn causes so many many problems.

Yes, it is not fair that he lives in a nice big house and yes it is not fair that you are struggling but I bet my bottom dollar that your little girl is well fed, clean, well dressed and happy and loves her Mammy to bits.

Wont be many of us taking hols this year  and there have been many years that I haven't had one.  No big deal, my kids will be all grown up before I know it and then I can go on as many hols as I like.

Let go of the anger, upset and frustration this is causing you.

You are a great Mam, I am sure of it, but dont let money get in the way of that.

Money is only handy when you go to the shop!


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## tick tock

ann i see your frustration...so go to the solicitors then on to court and try and get what you want and please come back and post what happened...i for one would like to know how you get on...you come across as a very strong reliable honourable sort of person. all the best to you.


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## Bronte

You are actually implying that your relationship with him will sour if the money issue is not sorted out. No matter what, you as the mother and responsible parent should not let this happen. You have responsiblities and obligations to your child not to let things get out of hand. How bitter will you be if you go to court and get nothing extra which based on the figures posted on here you in all likelyhood you will not get? Maybe your anger is directed at him for another reason not posted on here as after all broken relationships are complex.
Instead of looking for equality look for what is in the best interest of your child. 
Why don't you put youself in a situation where you will earn enough to take care of the child yourself in the future if you feel your standard of living is not good enough?
Sorry if this sounds like I'm lecturing, it's not meant to be. Being a single parent can be a frustrating experience, hell, being joint parents is frustrating.


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## samanthajane

ann84, It's not easy i've been there and done that myself. Now i've not read every post on here 100%, some i skimmed cause they were very similar. 

I know you feel your hard done by, but your actually doing very well, it wont be long then your daughter will be in school and costs will go down, and your'll still have the maintenance that your recieving now. 

I dont mean this to sound hard i really dont but i dont see how your not managing on what you have, I have 2 children and i recieve 100 euro in maintenance a week ( which was awarded by the court ) both my children are in school now, but when i was paying childcare my maintenance didn't even cover half and i had 2 set of fee's to pay not 1 and i lived in dublin. Their father didn't look after them what so ever, he never even saw them he hasn't for years!!!! 

I know everyone says that kids are expensive and i'm probably going to be shot for this there not that expensive.  I dont spend that much on my children ( talking about clothes, shoes, food ect ) For their birthdays and christmas family and friends will buy them new shoes and clothes and then 1 toy each. And if they do need bits and pieces through out the year hello thats what pennys and dunnes are for, you can get some really nice things for next to nothing especially in the sales. Kids dont need 100 different outfits, how many times have i heard friends say she only wore it once and now it's too small, obviously didn't need it in the first place. And i must point out that my kids NEVER walk around looking scruffy, they are always well presented. 

Fiancially speaking you must be able to cut corners somewhere. I'd be very surprised if you did go to court and were awarded more than what your already getting.


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## maz69

Hi,

have read throgh all the posts and just wanted to add.......I was in your situation and sat down with my ex to discuss how much kids were costing me.

I only wanted him to pay his proportion.....he earns more than me, but all I wanted was what was fair.

He laughed at how much I reckoned the kids cost bearing in mind he had not loooked after them for over 7 years full time and decided he was in fact paying more than he should be.

he took ME to court hoping to reduce the amount that we had decided ourselves and was actually ordered to pay quite a lot more than he had been paying.

It has soured relationships between us completely.

we no longer talk, BUT my kids are old enough to speak to their dad themselves now.

My solicitor was of the impression that I was "bullied" by my ex......ex always said if i went to court for higher maintenance he would no longer have contact with the kids....i never wanted to have that on my head and that prevented me from sorting the money out much sooner.

in the end it was HIM who got it sorted for me, but I DO regret not having done it myself much sooner.

I believed like you that I was "lucky" that my ex saw his children, but in retrospect if he had commitments they came first despite any arrangements already made.

I think you have to do whats in your heart.

I wouldnt recommend rocking the boat, and would weigh up very carefully how you would manage if for example he stopped helping with your child and you were completley on your own......

if you can manage.....like I found I could......I didnt need his help with the children , but I did want him to maintain the father relationship then you have nothing to lose.

if he loves your child a disagreement with you shouldnt mean he doesnt see her.....if it did what does that say about him??????????

but sometimes time is money, if he is minding your child whilst you are working etc then you are very lucky to have this....

Im really interested as to what happens here.......single parenting is never easy, its not just about the money.....I would have given so much for a few nights a week off......but that doesnt negate the fact you are feeling short changed and my only advice is not to let it cloud your judgement.

soon your child will be old enough to be left alone....all too soon, even if it does seem a lifetime away!

keep us posted

i should add that on a salary of 60K he pays E63 per child per week  ie e825 per month.....salary my side is e48,000 plus child benefit nothing else.


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## Ann84

Hi all,
Just a quick update. I had a preliminary advice sessio with a solicitor today. They told me that based on my information, i should be entitled to more maintenance as he pays nothing towards her costs (outside of childcare). I was also told that if he wishes to seek more access, he will have to bring me to court on a seperate date so it will not be dealt with in tandom with the maintenance issue.
They could not confirm an amount as it depends on a number of factors but i will definately get something more and at least it will be a legally standing order, so irrespective of the monitory aspect, i will no longer have to chase him around for ad-hoc support.
They have suggested that i pursue this, so i thinnk i will. There is now, a 4 month waiting list for me to think about it but what is there to loose except a growing resentment!


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## Bronte

Ann84 said:


> They could not confirm an amount as it depends on a number of factors but i will definately get something more


 
Could you tell us the number of factors?  Do you think it will be worth it if you say get 10 Euro more?  What will your legal bills be?


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## Ann84

Hi Bronte,
I am entitled to free legal aid as i spend almost 60% of my income on housing and childcare alone! So my legal bill will be minimal. 
The other factors are his salary, his expenses, his mortgage and there is also the matter of the last year and a half where he has had minimal financial input. I have bank statement showing every amount he has given.
Be aware that this is a last resort on my part. I had organised mediation which he refused to attend, i have tried to sit down and go through figures with him to agree an amount ourselves on a number of occassions in which case he has gotten aggressive and said i am 'screwing' him and i have told him that i would be looking for legal advice before Christmas, he has had plenty of time to be reasonable. 
The fact is that in a way, i am paying his mortgage so that he can live on his own and i am raising his daughter financially alone by him not paying his half equally. I am trying to reduce the tension in our shared parenting relationship by making things fair. 
Yes i absolutely believe that it's worth it, 10 euro per week = 520 euro per year * 18 years is 9360 euro!!!
I hope that it will be a little more than that but the bones of 10,000 euro over my daughter childhood and our quality of life, definately worth it.


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## Ann84

I just re-read my last post and it doesn't read well.
I know that in some respects i should be glad that he pays something and do appreciate the fact that he sees his daughter but at the same time, we are both a similar age, earning a similar amount, working similar hours and minding our daughter. There is an oppertunity for us to start on a level playing field and i want to take it. 
I don't think it is going to be easy ans i am 100% sure that he will do or say something horrible or try to hide his earnings etc but i just don't care anymore. Things are not fair now, so all i can do is try...


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## GreenQueen

Ann I wish you all the best with it.  When you get to court could you come back here and give us an idea of how it went?

I really hope that you don't sour your parenting relationship over this and that your child gets what they need.


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## maz69

ann 84

good luck with the whole thing.

really...let us know how you get on.

AND take heart..........if the father lets this sour parenting relationships that is HIS doing.

You should do what you feel is right by your child at the time, I didnt and now regret it, for the sake of good relationships which then soured wen my children were old enough to be caught in the middle of it all.

I suppose what Im trying to say is go for it, and dont be out off and scaremongered into holding back based on how good the father may or may not be in the future.



good luck.


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## Ann84

Hi All,

As requested i just wanted to give an update.
I did pursue the maintenance through the court but i am actually still on a waiting list to be seen!
I put forward the option of mediation to the father again on the back of the court application and he agreed to go through mediation in order to avoid going through the courts.
Through mediation, we have now settled an agreement in he is now legally contracted to pay maintenance. He has also agreed to return the money he owes from 'missed' payments back to the beginning of the year.
I found mediation very useful and am very happy with the resulting agreement. It covers access as well as maintenance and it is all fair.
Although he did attend mediation, it was only following a court application and i wish it could have just be discussed reasonably but at least now i know where i stand and so does he.
I know it could have caused friction, but so was his lack of maintenance and now that it is resolved, i am much happier about the situation. 
I cannot tell anyone what to do, just giving my experience following the OP.
Note: he would never have attended mediation if i had not gone to the courts so i am happy that i did, but i am much happier that it was resoved through mediation rather than court in the end.
Godd luck to anyone who has related situations.


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## GreenQueen

Ann I'm delighted that mediation worked for you.  Sometimes the threat of court is enough to get someone to understand how seriously you feel they need to take their responsibilities.

I would suggest that if you have a court date that you still turn up on the day and arrange for the judget "rubber stamp" your agreement. 

Hopefully the mediation will set good foundations for you and your child's future.

I'd be interested to learn if the amount of maintenance was eventually increased but I understand if you feel this is private.


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## Ann84

Hi Greenqueen,

When i originally started this thread, the father was paying half her creche @ 92 euro a week but not putting anything towards the rest of her costs. I was footing the bill for everything outside of childcare as he never bought clothes/ shoes/ toys etc but following a run through of our costs and incomes, he in now paying 500 eure per month which works out at 33 eure per week outside of childcare. 
He is now also paying back for the months that he paid nothing also. 
This may or may not seem like alot but in our circumstances, it's fair. I match his amount in maintence also every week. That is all i want, her childcare costs will go up in September and there is a clause that he is to match half of that when it does (and obviously visa versa when it goes down again).

I hope this is of benefit to anyone in a similar boat....


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## carrielou

Hey Ann84, you sound so much better/happier than previous.  I, for one, am delighted for you and your little girl.  And if I am to be completely honest, your little girls Dad doesn't sound so bad.  Unfortunately, not all fathers will attend mediation but I would second that it is the best road to go if a person can at all.  I wish you and yours all the best for the future.  Carrielou


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## mum2be

Hi I just discovered this website & it seems to be the only one which is actually of help to me.
I am a lone parent of 3 & I'm in a new relationship for the past 4 years.We do not live together. We are now 31 weeks pregnant & it has been a very special & happy time for us until 2 weeks ago when I visited my Community Welfare Officer to apply for rent allowance. I have been paying full rent myself of €350 per month for almost a year now. Anyhow the cwo remarked 'oh your pregnant' I said yes & she replied 'oh well as soon as 'that' baby is born I will be deducting your rent allowance IF I decide to grant it to you. She then went on to say that my partner will have to pay me maintenence & it has to be an agreeable amount to her depending on his wages. She also mentioned my bring my partner/boyfriend to court if he doesn't come up with a suitable amount! My health has deteriorated since that day both physically & mentally. I have been ill any day that I have spoken with her & my days are tormented with worry.
My boyfriend is the best & treats my other 3 kids like his own. So far he is the one who has bought everything for our baby (who is due in march) as all of my money goes for rent. He also drives me everywhere as I live in the countryside & don't drive. He has no problem paying maintenence when baby is born but we are both very worried as to how much is involved. My boyfriend works & I do not know his salary nor would I ever ask. He has a lot of outgoings & we both agreed that €30 per week would be fine. It kills me to ask him or take anything of him because he already does so much for us :-( Does anybody know if the Social Protection will accept this amount or what the future may hold for me. I feel really low & my days are taken over with worry as already it is hard to manage on the income I get without facing deductions when baby is born. Long post I know but I wanted to give as much info as possible.


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## SarahMc

Depending on his income, they might question the amount. €30 a week is very low.

I think you need to ask him his income, and come to a fairer amount than €30. After 4 years together he should be ok with disclosing this information to you. Have SW sought maintenance from the father of your older children also? It would seem unfair that they are only targeting your current partner.

It is unusual, normally at this juncture in your relationship, the partners would be seeking to form a family with all that entails, a shared home, shared responsibility for the baby etc. There is probably a lot more to this story than you can, or indeed should tell here, but I think you need to get this man to step up to his responsibilities a bit more.


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