# We lost our ptsb tracker after breaking fixed term, but FSO ruled against us



## Hopefully (5 Feb 2015)

Great News. I need a bit of help we had the exact same problem and complained to the FSO and were ruled against what happens now will we be offered our tracker back??? I presume this happened all of us in January 2009 when there was no penalty to exit the fixed rate and not being informed by PTSB what we were losing

Update from Brendan 13th February 2015 
ptsb initiated their High Court appeal of the Ombudsman's decision on 19th August 2011. 
The appeal had to be lodged within 21 days of the Ombudsman's decision, so the decision was dated around 1 August 2011. 

The Ombudsman appears to have ruled inconsistently in these cases. But one would hope that decisions after 19th August 2011, would reflect his high profile case.

If the Ombudsman ruled against you after August 2011, it's probably because the Ombudsman does not think that the details of your case are the same.


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## shoppergal (5 Feb 2015)

Hopefully said:


> Great News. I need a bit of help we had the exact same problem and complained to the FSO and were ruled against what happens now will we be offered our tracker back??? I presume this happened all of us in January 2009 when there was no penalty to exit the fixed rate and not being informed by PTSB what we were losing



We are in exactly this situation. FOS found against us and said PTSB had been under no obligation to inform us that we were losing our tracker. Also Jan 09.

Can anyone advise what course of action to take?


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## matan (5 Feb 2015)

When did u complain to FSO hopefully and when did they rule against you?


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## Hopefully (5 Feb 2015)

matan said:


> When did u complain to FSO hopefully and when did they rule against you?


Hi Matan we were ruled against in June 2011. There is no way people with the exact same story as ours get there tracker back and we don't will fight this all the way


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Feb 2015)

shoppergal said:


> Brendan, given that the circumstances of the cases *seem *pretty identical



There is a minor problem with inconsistency in the Ombudsman's Office.  Different results on the same issues.  But two cases may appear identical , are often different. 

So I suspect that your circumstances are different. 

But, for the moment, let's assume that they are the exact same.   What happens next?  

I can't see ptsb reopening cases which they have won.  Unless the CB has told them to look at cases which they have won, which is extremely unlikely. 

So what can you do?  

You can write to ptsb and ask them to review your case. 

You can and should bring your case to the attention of the Central Bank who are investigating it.  
You could apply to the High Court to review the Ombudsman's decision. But you are way outside the time limit and I doubt if they would allow it.
Brendan


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## ella (6 Feb 2015)

Hi all new to post our Mortgage with Permanent 2008 2 year fixed. At the end of the fixed rate period the interest rate appilcable will be the then current Permanent tsb Tracker Mortage rate..  
February 2009 sent the bank a letter this is whats in the letter .
To Whom it may concern,
Further to my conversation with one of your customer service advisors 03/02/2009. I wish to confirm i want to exit my fixed trrm agreement  to your variable tracker rate at no charge or penalty, The Ombudsman ruled against me.


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## Raging Bull (6 Feb 2015)

If your case is broadly similar and the FSO ruled against you already I would not necessarily loose heart or hope. Most likely the enforcement action by CB will compel them to review all cases again.

Don't necessarily count on it being in your favour though.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Feb 2015)

The High Court Case was in September 2012. Does anyone know the date  the Ombudsman upheld the complaints? 

If you guys have apparently identical complaints, but they were dismissed by the Ombudsman after the other case, it would seem that the Ombudsman does not see them as identical. 

If your cases were dismissed before the other case, it could just be inconsistency in the Ombudsman's office and, the cases probably are identical and should be reviewed. 

Brendan


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## elcato (6 Feb 2015)

There are a few things that need to be taken into account

In 2009 the ombudsman was not as sympathetic as later years.

Afaik the ombudsmans findings are generally accepted as a conclusion and you have the option of going to the High Court or by default accept the findings as final.

The ombudsman changed in the last few years so the incoming was probably more in line with how Joe Public was feeling about the banks


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Feb 2015)

Hi elcato

Either side can appeal the findings of the Ombudsman, but must do so within 21(?) days. 

When Joe Meade was the Ombudsman, he upheld a far higher percentage of complaints, than the current Ombudsman. 

But it's quite possible that on this particular issue, Bill Prasifka came down on the side of the consumer more so than Joe Meade. 

Brendan


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## Hopefully (6 Feb 2015)

I contacted the dedicated PTSB line for this 1890 812 781 and was told ALL cases are being looked at and it could take up to 3 months you have to wait from correspondence from them to see if you are one of the customers. I also contacted The Central Bank (very nice to deal with ) I was told they wont be looking at individual cases but they are investigating the whole matter which is good news.  Do not give up hope anyone that got ruled against by the FSO already


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Feb 2015)

Hi Hopefully

That's great news. I have deleted my earlier pessimistic comments. 

If the cases are exactly the same, then you deserve to get your trackers back. 

Brendan


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## raglan (6 Feb 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Hopefully
> 
> That's great news. I have deleted my earlier pessimistic comments.
> 
> ...


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## Gerry Canning (6 Feb 2015)

Suggest,

Write to PTSB and request a copy of all documentation etc they hold on your account, you are entitled to this via legislation.
I understand Banks don,t have to keep all documentation/phone recordings for more than 6 years.
I would not be atall surprised that if queries are raised, items may go walkabout!
So get as much info in your own hand while you wait to see are you part of the review.
I would be concerned that the 6 year rule may try to be used by Bank to stall things.


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## Hopefully (7 Feb 2015)

Hi Gerry 
I have already done this a while back and they could not find any recordings for me I gave date and name of who I spoke to.
When everyone else complained to the FSO was ur recordings found? PTSB knw they did not advise customers that opted to break their fixed term what they were losing by doing it that's why they don't have the recordings


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## ella (7 Feb 2015)

Hi Hopefully this bank is not to be trusted as it well knew what it was doing when it offered a fixed rate break free. lets see what rate you will be offered if you get your tracker back.


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## todo (10 Feb 2015)

I think all the banks were at the same thing, trying to get people off trackers by any means necessary.

The difficult part is proving that it was premeditated by the bank.

They would have know what they were doing and would have tried to make it look like the customer initiated the change.

What about the banks duty of care to the customer and doing whats in the customers best interest.


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