# Havbell Ltd buying non performing commercial loan



## Yellow Belly (15 Jun 2015)

Havebell Ltd (whoever that may be) have bought a non performing commercial mortgage from PTSB. This is a loan which no repayments have been made on since 2010 and has an accumulated an outstanding balance of circa €1m - a sale had been agreed with PTSB in 2014 for just €150,000 however there were delays on the purchasers end which resulted in the Letter of Consent expiring. My own home mortgage (currently on reduced monthly repayments of €1,000) and a further commercial mortgage of €160,000 (interest only = rent received) are remaining with PTSB. I also have a RIP mortgage approx €225,000 (capital plus arrears) with AIB for which they receive €500 per month partial interest (this is the full rent received). I am also being pursued by Bank of Ireland UK for €250,000 related to a Custom House Capital loan. My income fell from approx €150,000-€200,000 (from 1999-2009) to an average of just €9,000 for 2011,12,13,14 hence why my finances are so decimated. 

The property concerned is a pub in a rural town badly hit with unemployment and similar properties are either unsaleable or are being sold for €120,000-€170,000. I have it sale agreed again at €150,000 but PTSB cannot now issue a letter of consent and tell me I must deal with Havbell Ltd who will take ownership of the loan next week but may not be able to deal with it for months. If this sale doesn't close then I can't see anyone else buying the property in the near future- it is a bar which closed initially in 2006 was leased in 2007 & 2009 (both times the tenants could not make it viable & indeed left me with expenses of almost €50,000 to pay rates, costs to get license reissued, etc etc. It is just no longer a viable proposition.

PTSB have actually been easy to deal with in this whole disaster as I had used all my savings i.e. €100,000+ to make payments until that eventually ran out and I have kept in regular contact with them and been totally honest with regards to my personal situation. I am just wondering if anyone has any experience of dealing with Havbell Ltd or other companies who have bought none performing loans from the Banks? 

My own home is on joint mortgage with my wife (her income is approx €35,000) while all other debts are in my sole name and I have very low income plus no savings left- essentially I am bankrupt but if I file for this it may bar me from a professional body which I am a member of and seriously limit future earning potential. My plan (in conjunction with a PIP) was to try to make a Personal Insolvency Arrangement with all lenders- sell all properties (bar the family home) and a relative was offering €50,000 to make it a more attractive option (to the lenders) than my filing for bankruptcy. 

If you have read my post this far- thank you for reading my tale of woe and I wondered if anyone had experience of dealing with these types of companies i.e. Havebell Ltd and any other advice would be gratefully appreciated. I have 2 young kids & my wife found out that she is pregnant again last week so I am under serious pressure and quite worried where all this will end up.


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## TLO (27 Jun 2015)

Suggest talking to the guys in AJ Debt Solutions re UK IVA.  If you are prepared to move COMI their UK partners can put an IVA through in about 6 months. If the creditors meeting goes your way you're "all set". If the creditors object, then walk in to the County Court and ask the judge for a bankruptcy order (AJ, DH & colleagues will take you through the process).  Clean up the mess in about a year. If your wife can manage the mortgage on the family home you have a fighting chance of keeping it.  Best wishes.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Jun 2015)

It seems to me that a PIA would be the best solution for you. Around 30% of them last for only a few months if outside cash is brought in. 

Have you equity in the family home? How much is it worth and what is the mortgage?  

I would guess that Havebell have paid very little for this and are probably more likely to engage and write down debt than ptsb. 

Brendan


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## lukas888 (29 Jun 2015)

Sometime last year PTSB appointed Deutsche bank to advise it on how best to dispose of its non core commercial book,Deutsche must have
discovered great value because they along with Apollo teamed up and bought it themselves and have set up a special purpose vehicle namely
Havbell to run it.The end of year book valuation was 1.8 billion and they purchased it for 800 million.I presume the 1.8 billion 2014 valuation
was also heavily discounted from its original face value and on that basis Havbell who have appointed Fitzwilliam Loan Management and Capita
to liase with the former PTSB customers like Yellow Belly could well do deals with very large write downs.


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## Yellow Belly (2 Jul 2015)

Thanks so much for your replies guys.

My home mortgage is slightly in negative equity or may even be at break even at best. Mortgage approx €325,000 inc arrears (held by PTSB) and on reduced repayment currently of €1,000 per month- the property would be valued at approx €290,000-€330,000. The home mortgage is also in joint names with my wife while my commercial mortgages/RIP mortgages are in my sole name.

The problem I expect to run into with Havbell Ltd is that I currently owe marginally over €1m inc arrears on a property which is sale agreed at €150,000 (believe it or not that is probably greater than its market value at the moment). I had thrown over €100,000 (all my savings) at that business and loan to try to initially keep the business open and then service the loan after it had to close so I am all out of funds. If they write off the shortfall they would make a loss on my loan and I don't think that will be too palatable to them (€800m is a 44% discount on book valuation while the return on my loan would only be 150k/1m or 15%). The max which I could borrow from family would be circa €20,000-€50,000 which is unlikely to make a huge difference either and may just be a waste of their money particularly when I am most likely going to have to use a PIA or Bankruptcy to deal with my insolvency. Does anyone have any experience of how funds such as Havbell Ltd deal with PIA applications? My PIP submitted one to PTSB previously but it wasn't approved and indeed they didn't even want to issue an official reply.

Does anyone have a contact number for Havbell Ltd or received any contact from them? I contacted Deutsche Bank directly as the deal I have to sell the commercial property is at risk of falling through so would like to speak to someone at Havbell at the earliest opportunity - in fairness Deutsche Bank told me they would forward my message to the relevant person within Havbell but I haven't received any contact as yet.


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## lukas888 (2 Jul 2015)

Havbell have appointed Fitzwilliam Loan Management to liase with all customers phone number is 01 542 4888.They are your point of contact and they will appoint a relationship manager to discuss your situation.You are not correct with your 44%discount that havbell bought the PTSB loan book
for.My understanding is the 44%discount was on the december 2014 book value which was heavily written down from the original loan face values.
In your case i would think that your mortgage was bought for 10% of original or maybe even less.on that basis you could well do a deal for 200k or less.


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## lukas888 (3 Jul 2015)

Yellow Belly
You are correct after further enquiries 44% is the aggregate discount that Havbell paid for the loan book,but like all loan books a lot of the mortgages would be fully performing and probably bought at very little discount to book value,where as a large number would be written down by various amounts.
I would think considering your story your loan would be discounted by at least 80%.I hope you manage to arrive at a satisfactory outcome,let
us know how it all works out.


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