# Help with Social Welfare tenant rent & eviction



## Gint (4 May 2014)

I have a 2 year Social Welfare (SW) tenant who is not paying her part of €900 rent.

She became difficult from her 3rd month into the tenancy but in spite of giving her a quit notice, she did not budge and advised me to take her to PRTB. I was not encouraged to go that route as my friends that did ended regretting it after losing months rent.  

She has boasted she would stay for as long as possible and would not pay anything so I sort of reached over to her so she could pay me, while I appealed to her to look for another place. She is still staying as she claimed she could not find a place. She has stopped paying her part of the rent. 

I got her to sign that SW would pay me directly when she moved in. This payment has been interrupted many times where it would be stopped because of something the tenant did or some confirmation SW wanted. The last time it was stopped about 5 months ago where I did not receive payment for months in spite of faxing, phoning to leave messages (as no one answers the phone), she was eventually asked to get a letter from her landlord that she was still a tenant and paying rent. I had to serve her the letter because that was the only way SW would pay the 5 months  rent arrears. You can blame me but I did not see any choice but to serve her that letter stating what SW wanted to see/hear. 

It was after that that they resumed payment but cut their part of rent retrospectively from €735 to €466 . So they paid 5 months at €466 instead of €735 per month they were paying before. I called and left messages that they should at least confirm that they cut the rent and why, but no answer of course. My communication with them have always been one directional. 

So pls does anyone have any idea how I can confirm from SW why they cut rent? If they cut rent payable on tenant drastically, why would they allow tenant to stay in a property charging almost double. 

They (Damas Health centre rent unit) never answer letter or phone messages. 

Can anyone please teach me how to get SW to address my query?

I am now prepared to evict her even if it would take months as I do not get any money from her again anyway. 

Also any advice on the quickest way to evict such tenant?

Thanks


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## serotoninsid (4 May 2014)

Ultimately, you need to evict her.  Others here may have more experience as to the specifics of how you navigate this from your current position.

What you already know is that you are being 'played'.  In addition - no doubt - to what others here will add - you should browse the 'accomodation & property' section of boards.ie  .  Only a few weeks back, someone has posted with quite a similar situation i.e. the tenant knew from the outset what they intended to do i.e. stay as long as possible in the property without paying rent.

With regard to your more immediate concern re. social welfare - and eliciting a response from them, I can't help with that - but hopefully someone else here can.


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## gipimann (4 May 2014)

The Rent Unit can't give you information on a tenant's claim - even if the payment is being made to you.  There are several reasons why a payment may have been reduced - change of tenant's income, reduction in the maximum rent limit, increase in the minimum contribution that a tenant is supposed to pay, for example.

The method of evicting a tenant who is not paying rent is the same whether the tenant is on Rent Supplement or not. Your contract is with your tenant.


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## Sue Ellen (5 May 2014)

Maybe something in this post/thread and[broken link removed] might give you some general advice.


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## cremeegg (5 May 2014)

I suggest that you first of all establish the name of the community welfare officer dealing with your tenant.  (CWOs have a new name now, I'm  not sure what it is)

Telephone and ask for this person by name. Try to establish a good time to call. They don't call anyone back its not just you.

It is not impossible to establish contact with the CWO. Then outline the situation to him/her remember its not their problem, and they will ignore you if you try to make it their problem. However they like landlords who are willing to accept SW tenants and may have some suggestion. They also love information.

Tenants on SW cannot easily get money for a deposit if they loose a previous deposit. If you tell the tenant you have spoken to the CWO this may the tenant more likely to move as they may fear losing their deposit.

Offer the tenant the deposit back if they move out within say 1 month, tell them that you will hold the deposit and complain to the CWO if they don't go.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Is it any wonder landlords won't accept SW tenants.


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## twofor1 (5 May 2014)

Gint said:


> Also any advice on the quickest way to evict such tenant?



It will not be quick, you have to follow the correct procedure.

*The rent is late, what should I do?*

When the rent is late, the tenant should be contacted immediately. This lets the tenant know you are a professional landlord and on top of things. A gentle reminder is usually enough to prompt tenants to pay their outstanding rent. *If the rent remains outstanding the landlord must notify the tenant in writing that the rent is owing and give them 14 days to pay the rent.* If the rent continues to be outstanding the landlord may serve a Notice of Termination on the tenant. The notice must comply with the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 in terms of the content of the notice itself and the amount of notice given.

*What is a Notice of Termination?*

The person ending the tenancy (it can be either landlord or tenant) must serve a Notice of Termination (a written notice) on the other party and that notice must comply with the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 in terms of the content of the notice itself and the amount of notice given. The content of the notice will depend on whether it is served by the landlord, or tenant, the length of the tenancy and the reason for the termination.

In order to be valid a Notice of Termination must:
· Be in writing
· Be signed by the landlord or by his/her authorised agent
· Specify the date of service
· State the reason for termination (where the tenancy has lasted for more than 6 months)
· Specify the termination date (the tenant has the whole of the 24 hours of this date to vacate possession)
· State that any issue as to the validity of the notice or the right of the landlord to serve it must be referred to the Private Residential Tenancies Board within 28 days from the receipt of the notice. 

Click here for a sample Notice of Termination 


*What happens when a tenant won't leave?*

If a Notice of Termination is not complied with and the tenant does not leave, the only recourse is to refer a dispute to the PRTB about the tenant’s failure to comply with a valid Notice of Termination. The landlord may not take the law into his own hands. A dispute case referred to the PRTB about an illegal eviction will be given priority and there are procedures in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 under which the PRTB may apply to the Circuit Court for an interim or interlocutory injunction to restrain the landlord and re-instate the tenant pending the PRTB’s determination of the dispute. 
If a tenant has vacated a dwelling and the rent is at least 28 days in arrears, the tenant’s tenancy is deemed terminated under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and the landlord is free to recover possession of the property. 

Lots of other questions also answered here:

http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq


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## AlbacoreA (5 May 2014)

There is no legal way to evict a tenant quickly. 

When the SW went into arrears you should have started the evictions process then. Its not the LL's job to chase the SW. All you're doing its providing the govt with free accommodation. 

For the LL the tenant is simply not paying the full rent. I would make it clear to the tenant that unless they leave, you will pursue them for the arrears. Which at some point in the future, they will be a judgement against them, and it will be taken from their dole over time. Probably €1 euro over 20yrs, and you'll never get it, but it may encourage them to move. I suspect though they know they have you hook line and sinker. 

If the tenant wasn't paying anything you could report them and the dole stopped. Which sometimes is another tactic you can use to encourage them to leave. But that hasn't happened here. 

Ultimately its not the tenants fault this has happened. The Govt are increasing the costs for LL while decreasing the RA. They Govt are simply ignoring the problem and putting the burden on LL's. 

You're goal is to get the tenant out as fast as possible  (on good terms so as not to damage the property and cause more costs) and if you can avoid being fined even better.  Its all about minimizing the loss at this point.

Offering the deposit back if they move is another good tactic. Problem is the tenant is going to find it very hard to find somewhere else.


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## Gint (5 May 2014)

Thanks all for advice and info.

Just to address some points raised here, Tenant signed that rent be paid directly to me but that payment is far from regular. SW stopped doing that one time because Tenant 'rescinded' it. Later restored but has been stopped again because they needed confirmation Tenant was paying her part of rent - so they stopped mine!

Knowing the Tenant is unmoved by PRTB and would sit it out, what are the next steps after Termination notice expires? I know IrishLandlord.ie says to refer to PRTB but what do they do? 

If it is limited to writing letters, I know now that is water off the duck's back for Tenant. I suspect I would have to then get a Lawyer to take her to court. Can I cut that PRTB time and go straight to a Lawyer? How long do such cases take in court before practical eviction?

Thanks again.


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## AlbacoreA (6 May 2014)

Gint said:


> ...Can I cut that PRTB time and go straight to a Lawyer? ...



AFAIK You can't cut the PRTB. 

I don't think the PRTB are as slow as they were in the past.


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## cremeegg (6 May 2014)

I would nominate this as a key thread if i knew how.

Especially twofor1's excellent post


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## Gint (6 May 2014)

Permit me to rant. Why do the State not adopt 'if you don't pay, you don't stay' legislation so it does not take months to evict non-paying Tenant?

The SW equivalent in USA does not allow unruly tenants get away with poor conduct.  It has a ‘one strike’ policy so if you abuse your 1st chance under SW, you never get re-housed again in the whole country. If a problem, tenant has 30 days to rectify the issue. If they fail to comply, SW are immediately notified and brought in to evict the tenant. This has improved SW Tenants’ conduct.  Socially minded citizens may frown on this, I understand but it is injustice to Landlords here with current legislation.  Maybe these Irish laws were enacted when Landlords had no mortgage, they were feudal lords, etc. Many of today's landlords are just months rent's loss from bankruptcy, loss of asset etc. and need protection from increasing Govt charges, banks repossession, bad tenants, SW policies, lop-sided laws. I understand good Tenants being protected, but why protect  interest of someone that does not pay and usurping SW rent. 

If such protection is justified, then it should be extended to Landlords too. Everyone is always saying that it is the system but is it not the people that created the system? If State so want to protect bad Tenant's interest, why at the expense of Landlord? State prefer Landlord to absorb the hit. It is like robbing Peter to pay Paul.  The court judgment that should offer succour is no good when Tenant is ordered to pay €5/ month or Tenant refuses to pay or runs away. 

If in the spirit of laudable social policies, this protection is justified, then how about Govt setting aside money pot (from sale of National Lottery licence for example)  to offset landlord’s loss for as long as the State feels the non-paying Tenant should be protected.  That is equitable and would create equilibrium. Tenant is protected, Landlord is not robbed, Banks do not suffer default. Pros here should outweigh whatever cons there are. 

What sort of protection does someone who pockets SW rent deserve? If you report Tenant usurping your rent, maybe they do stop Tenant’s dole (as per some posts) but they also stop the rent they pay to you as it happened in my own case.

My friend’s Tenant ran off with months’ rent while case was with PRTB. Due to data protection, PRTB cannot look into SW record to check Tenant’s current address from where she draws her dole. They asked my friend to get Tenant’s current address for them so they know where to address their letters. So PRTB cannot look up Tenant’s record but yet share Landlord’s data with Revenue, Local councils etc. Is it such a bad idea to create exceptions in Data protection so that if you are are a cheat, you lose some of your rights? This would check unruly Tenants who run away with unpaid rent from one house only to resume same act in another. 

I remember I once had Data protection issue with Utility companies too. Tenant racked up unpaid bills and left (before meters became an option). Bord Gais disconnected service. I had to pay for reconnection charges so new tenant is serviced. Not to be beaten twice, I proactively called Bord Gais after some months to check if there is any mounting bill on the property. BordGais said they could not tell me due to Data protection. So if the same practice is repeated, I would need to fork out another reconnection charge. I even implored that they should not tell me anything other than confirm if Tenant is owing but they would not. I know some people reading this would wonder why I do not ask Tenant. It is because most are not encouraged to give you and wonder why you are even asking when it is not your name on the bill.  So it seems the law and Data protection seem to serve the bad guy more.


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## AlbacoreA (6 May 2014)

The Govt are inept.


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## delgirl (7 May 2014)

My heart goes out to you Gint, was in a similar situation a couple of years ago and had many sleepless nights.  I was lucky that the tenant in my house was 'known to the Gardai' and they went with me to serve the notice of termination as I was afraid of him.  That was enough to encourage him move out 2 weeks later as I told him they would be checking on him on a daily basis and this would have put the dampers on his drug dealing.

It's a ridiculous system and it's not just here, it happens every day in the UK as well.  Overholding is a way of life for some tenants in the UK and just as you said, the tenancy laws and Data Protection Act prevent them being pursued by landlords.

It should be made much easier and faster to get a possession order from the court and to use bailiffs to evict tenants.


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