# New bank in Irish market: Number26



## Paul M. (4 Dec 2015)

German digital bank Number26.eu have announced their expansion into Ireland. Heard about it on reddit.

I opened an account pretty easily using their video chat ID verification. Mobile app is pretty nice. Should get the Mastercard in the post in a couple of days apparently.

An interesting feature is that, like Revolut, there are no fees for usage abroad whatsoever. You get the Mastercard daily exchange rate.


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## shweeney (4 Dec 2015)

8.9% interest for an overdraft - that's pretty good I think.


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## Username2012 (4 Dec 2015)

Do you know how inbound foreign currency transfers are treated (I.e transferring sterling or dollars in), are they also free/at decent FX rate?


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## Paul M. (4 Dec 2015)

According to the FAQ, they don't accept inbound foreign currency transfers.

"Transfers in foreign currencies to your NUMBER26 account, however, are not possible yet and will be rejected. Please only transfer Euros to your NUMBER26 account."

(Second paragraph of answer to the FAQ question "How can I make a transfer in a foreign currency?")


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## Lightning (4 Dec 2015)

Wow. Very interesting.

From a cost perspective, this is easily the best value current account, on the market. Free day-to-day banking with no criteria to meet.

This really has to be the future. Cashless branch-less global app based banking.  

Before we recommend this, do SEPA direct debits work from this account for Irish utilities? Previous posters have indicated problems with setting up SEPA payments from non-Irish bank accounts.


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## theresa1 (4 Dec 2015)

It's not a proper credit card - more like a prepaid debit card. I must admit when I first checked the website I thought they were offering a credit card as well as a prepaid card.

Anyway you definitely wont get hit with the €30 charge Irish Government Levy or the 12 cent charge I presume when taking cash out at ATM.


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## Daffodils (4 Dec 2015)

Are they actually a bank? They don't seem to be on the Central Bank of Ireland register...


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## theresa1 (4 Dec 2015)

*Where is my money stored?*
Your money is held by our German partner bank Wirecard Bank AG.

This means it is protected by German deposit insurance up to several million Euros. Due to European regulations, we are able to offer bank accounts in any country in the European Union.


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## Daffodils (4 Dec 2015)

Thanks I couldn't find a reference on their website. I'm still confused  are they taking deposits? If they are and are an agent of wirebank they'd need to be authorised as a deposit agent in Ireland. The above sounds like they are provinding a payment account rather than a bank account and are safeguarding the money in a Wirebank account. Also the eu deposit protection scheme only covers €100,000 not millions.. I'd wonder do they know what legislation they are operating under.


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## Daffodils (4 Dec 2015)

Sorry I see the Germans have a separate scheme running which is probably in addition to the EU scheme so maybe the cover they mention is right but I'd still wonder about whether they are providing bank accounts or payment accounts.


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## theresa1 (4 Dec 2015)

https://number26.eu/support/german-deposit-protection/ - more info

The definition of a Bank etc. is changing. I wouldn't call the card a Credit Card but they are happy to call it that. You do get a IBAN and BIC and you can do direct debits and standing orders.

They are calling it a Bank Account - you transfer money in via a bank transfer. You dont' get any interest. They will consider savings accounts later.


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## Daffodils (4 Dec 2015)

Thanks for the link. Yeah it sounds like a payment account as you can't pay interest on a payment account.


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## Lightning (5 Dec 2015)

Daffodils said:


> the eu deposit protection scheme only covers €100,000 not millions



There is no EU scheme. Each member state has their own scheme. The Irish Deposit Guarantee Scheme covers deposits up to €100,000 for all depositors in Irish regulated banks regardless of their residence.

Number26 depositors have insurance from the German deposit insurance scheme.



Daffodils said:


> I'm still confused are they taking deposits? If they are and are an agent of wirebank they'd need to be authorised as a deposit agent in Ireland.



Number26 are effectively taking deposits.
Number26 do not need to be regulated here, they simply need to be regulated in a different EU country.
Number26, according to their website, will offer savings accounts soon.



> The above sounds like they are provinding a payment account rather than a bank account and are safeguarding the money in a Wirebank account.



Do you mean WireCard Bank AG?
Number26 are not providing a segregated polled account like Revolut.
The definition of a payment account is broad.



theresa1 said:


> I wouldn't call the card a Credit Card but they are happy to call it that.



Yeah, I have read more into this now. Number26 are offering a card that is coded as a credit card but effectively works like a debit card. Free ATM withdrawals and the money instantly comes from your current account. Not how a traditional credit card works.


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## Daffodils (5 Dec 2015)

Ciaran t yes each country administers their own deposit protection scheme but they adhere to EU legislation. Either way only deposits in a credit institution are covered not money placed on a payment account. Number26 appear to me to be offering a payment account. 

Are Number26 regulated? I thought they were providing the services via a third party.


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## Lightning (5 Dec 2015)

The money is held by Wirecard Bank AG. Wirecard Bank AG are regulated by BanFin. Number26 is regulated but the regulation side is dealt with by Wirecard Bank AG.


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## PaddyBloggit (5 Dec 2015)

Is it possible to get pay paid directly into the account?


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## Lightning (5 Dec 2015)

Yes.


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## theresa1 (5 Dec 2015)

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/switching-accounts - if you intend to close your existing current account and move to number 26 you will have to do everything manually.

I'm still FREE with PTSB but if charges came in and I could not find another FREE provider in Ireland I would move my current account.

We live in interesting times - the likes of BOI,AIB etc. really should be looking at launching a similar product - standalone or in partnership with a new start up.

In Germany they use shops to take deposits of cash. Imagine if they teamed up with An Post - it's great competition and the days of FREE Irish (yes with some strings attached) current accounts as I said before are far from over.


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## Lightning (5 Dec 2015)

theresa1 said:


> We live in interesting times - the likes of BOI,AIB etc. really should be looking at launching a similar product - standalone or in partnership with a new start up.



Sooner or later the retail banks will be forced to offer online only, app-based, current account offerings. The slower they adopt to the change the bigger the effect it will have on their business. 

I find it very surprising that none of the Irish banks segregate their free banking product offering to only those that will use online only channels with fees for those that want a branch offering. 



theresa1 said:


> it's great competition and the days of FREE Irish (yes with some strings attached) current accounts as I said before are far from over.



Yeah, agreed, free banking will exist in some form for the foreseeable future. 



theresa1 said:


> I'm still FREE with PTSB but if charges came in and I could not find another FREE provider in Ireland I would move my current account.



And there is the problem for PTSB, KBC and the others. Introduce fees and droves will start switching to Number 26.


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## JohnJay (5 Dec 2015)

I wonder, seeing as their debit card is not a debit card, will it allow for cash back?


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## theresa1 (5 Dec 2015)

I'm pretty sure the answer is no - same as Revolut but the card is contactless unlike Revolut at the moment.


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## Lightning (5 Dec 2015)

JohnJay said:


> I wonder, seeing as their debit card is not a debit card, will it allow for cash back?



Rather their credit card is a debit card. No cash back. Free ATM withdrawals.


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## theresa1 (5 Dec 2015)

*What are my limits with NUMBER26?*
Here you can find all the limits in connection with your [broken link removed] and your NUMBER26 MasterCard®.

Maximum [broken link removed] per day: 600 €

Maximum ATM withdrawal per week: 2,000 €

In-store spending limit per month: 4,000 €

E-commerce spending limit per month: 4,000 €

[broken link removed] limit: 1,000 €
Incoming transfer limit per day: 25,000 €


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2015)

I've now opened an account - should get the card in a few days. I was kind off nervous doing it via the video chat not because of any security concerns. I suppose I'm from an older generation (not 50 just yet) and it's all new but I like the technology and it just further highlights how far behind we are -Banks etc. with account opening processes and other things.


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## Daffodils (6 Dec 2015)

I've emailed them to ask whether the account is a payment account or bank account and whether they are acting as an agent of Wirecard bank. 

I'm not sure that I would trust giving my money to a Fintech firm who is safeguarding it. What happens if they go bust and they haven't safeguarded client money properly...


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2015)

It's a bank account - you get a IBAN. Number26 relies on a banking license from Wirecard Bank. Your money is deposited with Wirecard Bank and you are fully covered.


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## Lightning (6 Dec 2015)

Yeah, and more than 100,000 EUR is protected ...



> *THE STATUTORY DEPOSIT PROTECTION SCHEME*
> German law requires a statutory protection of 100,000€ per depositor in case a bank is confronted with economic difficulties. This amount is endowed mandatorily by German private banks and is covered by the “Entschädigungseinrichtung deutscher Banken” (Compensation Scheme of German Banks).
> *THE VOLUNTARY DEPOSIT PROTECTION FUND:*
> Deposits exceeding 100,000€ are additionally protected by the deposit protection fund of the Bundesverband deutscher Banken e.V. (‘BdB’),an association representing private banks established in Germany. This voluntarily established fund protects the deposits at our partner bank up to several million euros per depositor.


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## JohnJay (6 Dec 2015)

I'm happy enough with my PTSB current account at present. But I can see use for Number26 for anyone who is traveling (especially outside the Euro zone). I work in the UK a bit, and avoiding bank charges for using an ATM would have advantages. Plus if you only have a few 100 euros in it at any one time it has security benefits if your card gets stolen, cloned, etc while traveling. So I might be signing up for this as a secondary current account.


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2015)

Totally agree JohnJay and that's what people will do with these products - basically mix and match so to speak.

You have fantastic control of the card within the app -block and unblock, block online, block atm - no ringing your bank.

I hope they can find a partner here that will take cash deposits for them.


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## Daffodils (6 Dec 2015)

theresa1 said:


> It's a bank account - you get a IBAN. Number26 relies on a banking license from Wirecard Bank. Your money is deposited with Wirecard Bank and you are fully covered.


It probably is I am just checking. In Ireland you have to be either a credit institution or a deposit agent authorised under the investment intermediaries act to take deposits. Number26 is neither. I understand that it is partnering with Wirecard Bank but my understanding is that they can't accept deposits in Ireland (as an agent of Wirecard Bank) unless they have been appointed by the Bank to do so under the investment intermediaries act. I don't see them on the Central Bank register of authorised firms therefore I am assuming that they are not taking deposits. 

The product sounds great but I'd want to be 100% of what it is before signing up.


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## toby2111 (9 Dec 2015)

Can someone confirm if we have to pay the government levy on this card?


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## Boyd (9 Dec 2015)

According to best buys thread, the levy doesn't apply http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/personal-current-accounts.21774/


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## Lightning (9 Dec 2015)

The best buy levy comment is based on what Number26 have told customers. 

However, some posters elsewhere say that account holders should be liable based on Revenue rules. 

As it is a little unclear, I well remove the government levy point from the best buys.


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## Paul M. (9 Dec 2015)

I took at look at the Central Bank of Ireland web site. It seems Wirecard Bank AG are now on the Central Bank of Ireland's register of credit institutions. You'll need to scroll down the PDF to the section 'Credit Institutions from other Member States of the European Economic Area (EEA) which have notified the Central Bank of Ireland of their intention to provide services in the state on a cross-border basis.' if you want to have a see for yourself.


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## Lightning (9 Dec 2015)

Good spot.


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## ardmacha (10 Dec 2015)

As Banks in NI are required for charge the levy for sterling cards, which are very unlikely to be used in the Republic, I cannot see how a German bank can not pay the levy.


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## theresa1 (18 Dec 2015)

The "new" updated maximum limits you can now set are as follows:

Daily ATM withdrawals: up to 2,500 €

Daily POS spend: up to 5,000 €

MoneyBeam to NUMBER26 customer: up to 1,000 €

MoneyBeam to non-customer: up to 100 €

Daily maximum account credit: 25,000 €



You can easily set custom limits for ATM withdrawals and POS transactions in your NUMBER26 app.

Got my card -withdrew at ATM and used POS - very impressed so far.

They are now simply calling the card Mastercard and have dropped all reference to Credit Card which makes things clearer.


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2016)

Yorky said:


> Is there any facility for cheque lodgement?



Nope.


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## cork (6 Jan 2016)

Does it take long to transfer funds to a 26 account?

Would Ulster Bank change (If you have free banking) to make such a transfer?


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## elcato (6 Jan 2016)

Took about two working days for me and no charge doing it online under international payments.


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2016)

SEPA transfers should be charged the same regardless of the country. i.e no additional charges. 

In theory, SEPA transfers arrive the next business day.


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## Slim (11 Jan 2016)

I note that non EU currency withdrawals are charged at Mastercard exchange rate. How does this compare with the exchange rates at Tesco or Visa?


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## elcato (11 Jan 2016)

I did a bit of digging when in the UK and the rate was better than my own (Ulster Bank) debit card (137 compared to 141 euros to 100 sterling). My credit card (AIB visa) gave a rate of 138 but given that I was hit with a cash withdrawel charge of €2.50 it didn't fare better. I guess a preloaded CC may have been quite close to the rate but just slightly higher in my case.


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## MrEarl (11 Jan 2016)

Hello,

I have read that Sky TV will not process direct debits originating from Number26, apparently.

Any other service providers also failing to process direct debits from this Bank, as obviously this is a consideration if we are going to consider moving ?


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## Lightning (12 Jan 2016)

By law, all companies, operating in Ireland, should accept SEPA direct debits for Euro payments. It seems that some companies are not adhering to the law including Sky. 

I will add a note on this in the best buy thread.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Jan 2016)

OK, what are the downsides of this account? 

1) You can't get an overdraft 
2) You can't lodge cheques 

Any more?


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## Lightning (19 Jan 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> OK, what are the downsides of this account?
> 
> 1) You can't get an overdraft
> 2) You can't lodge cheques
> ...



3) A small number of Irish companies are refusing to set up direct debits to non-Irish bank accounts. This is against the law but it is happening in a small number of cases. 
4) No branches. 
5) No cash lodgement method in Ireland.


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## MrEarl (19 Jan 2016)

CiaranT said:


> 3) A small number of Irish companies are refusing to set up direct debits to non-Irish bank accounts. This is against the law but it is happening in a small number of cases.
> 4) No branches.
> 5) No cash lodgement method in Ireland.



CiaranT,

May I ask you please, if companies refusing to set up direct debits are breaking the law, who is responsible for enforcing this law ?

Regarding cash lodgements, while it would not be cheap I wonder could a person lodge cash via Western Union (or an alternative service) if it was ever necessary ?


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## Lightning (19 Jan 2016)

MrEarl said:


> CiaranT,
> 
> May I ask you please, if companies refusing to set up direct debits are breaking the law, who is responsible for enforcing this law ?



The Central bank of Ireland, the ECB, the Financial Ombudsman and the courts. In this case, both the CBI and the Financial Ombudsman need to be contracted in the first instance.


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## Connard (20 Jan 2016)

CiaranT said:


> 3) A small number of Irish companies are refusing to set up direct debits to non-Irish bank accounts. This is against the law but it is happening in a small number of cases.
> 4) No branches.
> 5) No cash lodgement method in Ireland.



Lack of an app for Windows is another. I know not a large majority use Android or iOS but there are a few of us windows phone users out there.


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## theresa1 (23 Jan 2016)

[broken link removed]

This is unbelievable - they are now advising that they will collect the €30 Irish Government Stamp Duty. Elsewhere they are still calling it a debit card and no matter what it's called it does not offer any credit limit whatsoever.


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## Lightning (23 Jan 2016)

It is clearly a mistake to be applying the credit card stamp duty to a debit card. Hopefully, this is sorted sooner rather than later.


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## Lightning (27 Jan 2016)

Number26 have changed the stamp duty fee from €30 to €5. 

It is still incorrect, it should be 12 cent per ATM transaction up to an annual cap of €5.


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## theresa1 (22 Feb 2016)

I can confirm the cashback facility is available with the Number26 Mastercard and the mobile app is excellent.


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## Andy836 (25 Feb 2016)

Wirecard stock down 20% plus on foot of short seller report alleging fraud  (funneling gambling proceeds to US).


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## JohnJay (28 Feb 2016)

I signed up this morning. 
The "verify your identity" bit on their app via video link was a bit strange, but very efficient.


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## theresa1 (28 Feb 2016)

Welcome on board I've been using Number26 for a few months now and am very happy.


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## theresa1 (1 Mar 2016)

"Hi Theresa, 

The Irish Government requires banks in Ireland to collect certain duties, including duty on debit cards. Therefore, going forward your NUMBER26 MasterCard Debit Card will be charged with 5 Euros annually, including stamp tax duty on debit cards. This charge will be applied and automatically deducted from your account in January, always for the previous year. However, for the year 2015, no charges will be applied.

We appreciate your using NUMBER26 and hope you understand our need to comply with this mandatory government regulation.

Have questions about this newsletter? Simply contact our support at support@number26.de. 

Let's change banking together!"

Is the above legal? It's certainly not operating the new ATM withdrawal tax as per the procedures from Irish Revenue.

I'm stunned with this e-mail.


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## Paul M. (6 Mar 2016)

Interestingly, the Number26 Support Centre article has now been updated and the bit about the stamp duty now reads:-

Stamp duty - customers who reside in Ireland are subject to a government stamp duty on their debit card of up to 5,00 € per year
Seems like a good sign that they are getting their act together about it.


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## Paul M. (6 Mar 2016)

Another case where Number26 accounts (or any other non-Irish bank account) aren't being accepted is the Leap Card auto-top up service. Apparently the NTA are using some hack called 'DEFT' from a company called 'Ardbrook' for SEPA compliance instead of actually spending the money to upgrade their systems properly.


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## theresa1 (6 Mar 2016)

"Stamp duty - customers who reside in Ireland are subject to a government stamp duty on their debit card of up to 5,00 € per year"

Sadly they had this information up before they announced that basically from January 2017 they will charge every Republic of Ireland Customer €5 per year even if they never once use the number26 mastercard to withdraw cash at a Republic of Ireland ATM/LATM.


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