# DRO in UK and moving back to Ireland



## marfsmal (22 Jun 2013)

Really need help from an expert on this. 

If one gets the Debt Relief Order in the UK, sees through the 12 months, gets discharged from those debts, but moves back to Ireland, say 6 months, 1 year, 2 years afterwards, are they liable for those debts all over again due to being resident in Republic of Ireland?

Does anyone know for sure?

*To mods: please feel free to move this to the Bankruptcy in UK section if you think better suited there.


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## marfsmal (22 Jun 2013)

140 views and nobody knows the answer?


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## Cantalia (22 Jun 2013)

Sorry no, we all focused on how such orders are developing here!


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## marfsmal (22 Jun 2013)

Has anyone compiled up to date guidelines in form of e-book even? Would seem to be a huge market for this.


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## Steve Thatcher (25 Jun 2013)

Why do you think it is a debt relief order you need are your debts below £16,000
I can't see why if they are and you a DRO they would not be counted as written off in Ireland

Steve Thatcher
www.irishbankrupt.ie


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## marfsmal (25 Jun 2013)

Yes, debts are below 16,000.
So if I got DRO, only applicable in UK, but bankruptcy applicable in ROI also, even when undertaken in UK?
I might go with bankruptcy if that is the case.


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## Nobizere (26 Jun 2013)

Bankruptcy for debts of less than 16 grand ??????
That seems a bit excessive to me. Come to an arrangement with your creditors. If you're living in Ireland a Debt Relief Notice would surely be the better option if you. 

Bankruptcy for such a small amount seems crazy in my opinion.


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## marfsmal (26 Jun 2013)

Why not?
Debt Relief Notice stands for 3 years in Ireland and it's not even available yet.


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## Luternau (26 Jun 2013)

There are also significant downsides to being declared bankrupt.

Is the 16k all the debt or are there others ?
Is there a reason that you would prefer not to enter a DSA or equivalent? An inheritance for example?

Going bankrupt for this amount seems like using a mallet when a small tack hammer is all that's required!


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## Cantalia (27 Jun 2013)

Luternau, what are the serious downsides to being declared bankrupt if you actually are bankrupt? Thanks, this isn't rhetorical can you please go through them.


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## Bronte (27 Jun 2013)

marfsmal said:


> .
> 
> If one gets the Debt Relief Order in the UK,
> Does anyone know for sure?
> ...


 
How can you expect most people who deal with debt on AAM to know this.  Start at the beginning, what is a Uk debt relief order, why would you apply for it etc.  The only think we've had confirmed is that UK bankruptcy works, and it wipes Irish debt.


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## marfsmal (27 Jun 2013)

Bronte, there is a lot of info about the rules relating to the debt relief order in the UK online. It means people with less than 15k debt can apply for debt relief and after one year they are discharged from that debt and are no longer liable for those debts in the UK.
Sadly it seems from what I've been finding out from someone here, and also from an expert in the north, that if you move back to Ireland again the debt relief order would not apply here. Only in UK- possibly other countries, were you to move elsewhere.

Getting free of debt after 1 year, as opposed to paying back instalments for however long and getting hassle from banks during that time potentially, is a far better option here for most people.


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## Bronte (27 Jun 2013)

So then the debt relief option is no good for you.  Would you perhaps think of other ways of tackling your debts, paying them off on an agreed plan?  It might be a hassle at the beginning to get it started, but once agreed it should be relatively easy to manage.  Have you tried Mabs?


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## marfsmal (27 Jun 2013)

I have, and Mabs are useless. They pressurised me the last time I called them (long story) and I made the mistake of calling them again this week. I won't have anything to do with them.

I would prefer bankruptcy. Seems to work nicely for a lot of those who have already done it.

I may still go with DRO from the north and not return here properly.

Will come back here if I can add a post to help anyone.


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## Bronte (28 Jun 2013)

marfsmal said:


> I have, and Mabs are useless. They pressurised me the last time I called them (long story) and I made the mistake of calling them again this week. I won't have anything to do with them.
> 
> 
> Will come back here if I can add a post to help anyone.


 
Well it would help other people greatly if you could clarify exactly what transpired with Mabs?  Long story is fine.


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## marfsmal (30 Jun 2013)

Who knows, it may just inform people and help somebody reading this.


The first time I called Mabs I had just spent a long period of time up to that living on the tiniest amount you can imagine all just to maintain my credit rating at all costs as I am still young and didn't want my future to be ruined just because of these debts. Especially when they were relatively small.

I had somehow kept it all going but had lost a lot of weight from lack of food and stress, my eyes had that kind of hollowed out look that terrified people have, and I was very nervous and alert in general due to not being able to take my mind off that last €5 that I needed to make it home, and pay for my accommodation (€40 a week). I had had to find a place that would take me 5 days a week as I couldn't afford both a full week's rent and to travel home at weekends to see my father who suffers from a serious illness and had been deteriorating. Sadly my siblings were no help at that time and didn't see the urgency -they do now that my father requires 24 hour care. Put it this way, I missed one weekend and my father phoned me in the middle of the week to say 'There is no food in the house'. He is not the type to call and he couldn't drive anymore due to the illness. Straight away I got a part-time carer in to make sure that never happened again.

So I was near to missing my 5th or 6th payment to one credit card provider and I knew that if I missed that last 6th one, they would refer me to a debt collection agency and I didn't want that to be on my record. Also, I had already suffered so much I couldn't bear the thought of losing all now after all of that.

I called Mabs for help at this point to see what advice they would give me. I explained the situation and said that I didn't think I could keep up with the repayments any longer, that it was affecting my health, etc. The idiot on the phone told me that the Personal Insolvency Bill would be in soon and I mentioned that I wasn't so sure, as I had heard Eddie Hobbs saying otherwise and it made sense that they would defer it in order to get as much funds into the bank as possible- turned out Eddie was right and I was right to heed his warnings. 

She seemed to take offence that I would challenge her and she said that the government had said it would be coming in later in the year and 'that was that' kind of thing. I told her I had nothing, zero, left after paying for my 5 days accommodation and most basic of food but that I might be able to get an extra income of 50 per week which I would pay towards improving my accommodation situation. Well, she was in nirvana, she just told me emphatically to hold on until I got that extra income, and to keep making payments. 

Last week I wanted to find out for sure whether getting the DRO in the UK would still stand were I to return to Republic of Ireland (only calling it by this to differentiate) and so I called them again just in case because 'you never know'.

The woman I spoke to said that Mabs don't advise on UK options for Irish people.
Fair enough. I also asked her whether they could help me merge my payments into one single payment and she said no. She brought up the Personal Insolvency Bill and I told her that I very much resented the options that are drafted in, for example the fact that the Debt Relief Notice (the Irish equivalent of the DRO) would actually last for 3 years! As opposed to the UK's 1 year. So their advice on the PI bill is useless to me.

I then asked her whether anyone in Mabs was involved in negotiations on the bill and whether they had someone standing up for people struggling with personal debt and cited the lady from Flac who speaks up a lot demanding proper legislation to be brought in asap. The Mabs woman said that she didn't know anything about that. 

She offered to send me out a booklet with template for letter to send out to bank. I asked her if this was the same one as was online and she said Yes.. so I have no idea why she didn't just volunteer this at the beginning rather than offering to post?
Then I asked her if there was any help available in terms of meeting with someone and she said that I could make an appt with a money advisor in my local office and she gave me the number. She said that they wouldn't be able to merge my payments for me though. I asked whether they could write on my behalf and she said I would need to ask the advisor.

So even if they can write on my behalf, I don't really need that anyway. I already know how much at most I can pay a month and already know a court would not contradict that were a bank to even consider taking me to court.

I at one point mentioned how I had already paid back the principal and interest and that I wasn't feeling guilty about my debts as they were technically repaid and she said 'at the time you agreed to terms and conditions of loan, etc.' and pretty much spouted what the bank said to me. I think she expected me to get into a 'woe is me' spiel and as she didn't get that she really had nothing to offer me.

How much is Mabs costing? And what exactly are they doing for people for that cost?

I found the whole effort pathetic especially when compared with the professionalism and help of Citizens Advice Bureau in the UK.


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## munchy (1 Jul 2013)

marsfmal - have you called Frost.ie? They dont charge a fee and do negotiate on your behalf. I found them very easy to talk to and they helped me with some advice.


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## Thrifty (2 Jul 2013)

Hi marfsmal. Read your post with interest on your experience with Mabs and quite frankly felt sorry for 'the idiot' you had to deal with. You obviously are under a lot of stress and extremely angry from you first paragraph of your last posting. i feel possibly your anger and aggression against your family, your health etc were directed at the poor person on the phone who only tried to help. Perhaps they should have directed you to your local office in the first call but why in the second you should expect them to sit on the phone discussing policy issues with you and how involved they were in the legislation is beyond me. Why ring them if you just want to berate them. Why don't you make the appointment with your local office and see how you get on. Just remember the Money advisors do not make the rules, they have a tough job trying to help people and advise them of the options available. They can't wave a wand and sort it all out as simply as you'd like.


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## marfsmal (2 Jul 2013)

Thrifty said:


> Hi marfsmal. Read your post with interest on your experience with Mabs and quite frankly felt sorry for 'the idiot' you had to deal with. You obviously are under a lot of stress and extremely angry from you first paragraph of your last posting. i feel possibly your anger and aggression against your family, your health etc were directed at the poor person on the phone who only tried to help. Perhaps they should have directed you to your local office in the first call but why in the second you should expect them to sit on the phone discussing policy issues with you and how involved they were in the legislation is beyond me. Why ring them if you just want to berate them. Why don't you make the appointment with your local office and see how you get on. Just remember the Money advisors do not make the rules, they have a tough job trying to help people and advise them of the options available. They can't wave a wand and sort it all out as simply as you'd like.



Did you even read my post? I specifically stated that I didn't give any 'woe is me' spiel to the Mabs staff. That would be absolutely pointless.

Try another line thrifty!


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## Luternau (17 Jul 2013)

Cantalia said:


> Luternau, what are the serious downsides to being declared bankrupt if you actually are bankrupt? Thanks, this isn't rhetorical can you please go through them.



Some information here on the UK Citizens advice resource

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_help_with_debt_e/bankruptcy.htm


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## Cantalia (18 Jul 2013)

Thank you, I didn't know of this website, will read through it first chance I get.


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