# Leaving UK - Benefits available in Ireland



## Steve Allen (10 Dec 2011)

First time poster, long time admirer. 

My partner, a UK native, is moving to ireland having just left her job in london. She has never worked in ireland, and hasn't found a job as yet, surprise, surprise. 

My question is is she entitled to claim anything? From what i can see, UK folk satisfy the habitual residence condition (as do all EU citizens), but she has never paid stamps here. Is she entitled to jobseekers allowance, after the 9 weeks has passed? She will have paid plenty of national insurance, but that only seems relevant/useful if you've paid PRSI here at some point. 

Or do i 'make' her take any aul job initially so that she gets on the PRSI ladder? While i'm prepared for all outcomes, it would be nice to know what questions or angles social welfare might throw up. Cheers


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## Jim2007 (10 Dec 2011)

As an EU citizen, she is entitled to seek jobs in another member state, while receiving unemployment benefits from the UK.  So she should start by claiming benefits in the UK and then seek to have her benefits paid to her while she is seeking a job in Ireland.  I don't specifically know about the UK, but the EU norm is 3 months.  Of course given the special relationship between the UK and Ireland there may be better options available.


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## gipimann (10 Dec 2011)

UK or EU citizens do not automatically satisfy the habitual residence condition (HRC).   They have a right to reside in Ireland which is not the same thing.

A person must have a right to reside in this country before being assessed for HRC at all.

There are 5 factors which will be considered for HRC

- Length and continuity of residence in Ireland or in any other particular country

- Length and purpose of any absence from Ireland

- Nature and pattern of employment

- Applicant's main centre of interest

- Future intention of applicant concerned as they appear from all the circumstances.

If your partner does not satisfy HRC then she will not be eligible for Jobseeker's Allowance.    If she does satisfy HRC, then she will be means-tested on your income.

Jobseeker's Benefit is not subject to HRC, so it may be worthwhile getting the Irish PRSI contribution.  
Alternatively, she could sign for Jobseeker's in the UK and then transfer her benefit payment to Ireland.

You'll find more information on HRC here:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx


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## Steve Allen (10 Dec 2011)

Cheers for the replies folks, very helpful. 
Not sure she'll have time to sign on in uk - last day of work, then it's xmas, then flies here! But it was something i thought she should look at - but it isn't a huge amount over there. 

She really should have no problem satifying HRC. So we're onto the means test.  *checks welfare site on assessing means of a couple*


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## Slim (10 Dec 2011)

Steve Allen said:


> Cheers for the replies folks, very helpful.
> Not sure she'll have time to sign on in uk - last day of work, then it's xmas, then flies here!



That could be a huge mistake. It might be worth signing on in the UK first. Not sure she can turn up here and expect to receive JSA.


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## newirishman (10 Dec 2011)

Steve Allen said:


> Cheers for the replies folks, very helpful.
> Not sure she'll have time to sign on in uk - last day of work, then it's xmas, then flies here! But it was something i thought she should look at - but it isn't a huge amount over there.
> 
> She really should have no problem satifying HRC. So we're onto the means test.  *checks welfare site on assessing means of a couple*



Definitely sign up in UK and she must mention that she moves to Ireland. There's a bit of paperwork involved in the transfer, and the money is also paid out by the Irish welfare office (who get the money back from the UK). 
A small bit of hassle (really small bit) but without this she won't get anything in Ireland.


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## Ildánach (12 Dec 2011)

Steve Allen said:


> Cheers for the replies folks, very helpful.
> Not sure she'll have time to sign on in uk - last day of work, then it's xmas, then flies here! But it was something i thought she should look at - but it isn't a huge amount over there.
> 
> She really should have no problem satifying HRC. So we're onto the means test.  *checks welfare site on assessing means of a couple*



*DO NOT ASSUME* that she'll have no problem meeting HRC.  People who have lived in Ireland for 10 years plus have difficulties in doing so, and they are tightening up all the time.  There are many many people who have come over from UK in recent years being refused payments on habitual residence grounds.

She may also face disqualification for leaving her job voluntarily, and also a finding that she is not genuinely seeking work since she has left the UK and come to a country where there is no realistic chance of finding work.

The easiest way round the Habitual Residence rules is to find some work in Ireland (and that's not too easy at the minute).  Even one week's work will bring her into the social insurance system and away from HRC based payments (although unless the work is regular enough, this won't be enough to get round the other problems around giving up her work voluntarily and genuinely seeking work!)

Alternatively, if the reason she is moving to Ireland is based on family reasons, she may also be able to rely on the Bergemann ruling, which means that she could rely on her NI contributions without reference to her PRSI record.  But that is complicated.  For more info on Bergemann ruling see here http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/EU/Euguide/Documents/Part8.pdf


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## castleforbes (12 Dec 2011)

Can I ask why she is moving here and already looking for benifits.  Whey not stay in the country that your from and paid your taxs to when you cannot support yourself in a new country


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## Jim2007 (12 Dec 2011)

castleforbes said:


> Can I ask why she is moving here and already looking for benifits.  Whey not stay in the country that your from and paid your taxs to when you cannot support yourself in a new country



Probably to be with her partner....


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## Steve Allen (19 Dec 2011)

Cheers for the info re Bergemann ruling, will read into that now. 

She's moving here coz the long relationship distance thing is  tough, and i've a mortgage and a job here. Plus she was miserable in her job. 

Guess i'll just have to force her into taking any kind of a job, coz i can't see her getting anything from JSA after a means test (i rent out rooms under rent-a-room scheme too). 

Though this raised an issue in my head - we'll be means assessed as a couple, yet i'm still taxed as a single person. While obviously any ruling in my favour would open the thing up to all kinds of abuse, surely there's some sort of an angle there for me....


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## Ildánach (20 Dec 2011)

Steve Allen said:


> Cheers for the info re Bergemann ruling, will read into that now.
> 
> She's moving here coz the long relationship distance thing is  tough, and i've a mortgage and a job here. Plus she was miserable in her job.
> 
> ...



No angle there I'm afraid.  Unless you're prepared to get married to benefit from the tax advantages.


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## Steve Allen (27 Jan 2012)

I have actually considered a civil partnership to get those credits, but don't think mother would approve. 

Slight further development in this case anyway, if anyone's interested - which i'm sure you're not! 

The missus got her decision (v quick i must say) with the calculation as follows: 
Personal Rate: €188
Increase for Qualified adult: €124.80
Less (my) means: €275
Giving her a payment of €37.80

I was expecting a zero amount and was going to appeal on the Bergmann basis mentioned above. But the question is why have they given the qualified adult increase? And would we be silly to appeal and then face the possibility of being left with nothing?


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## gipimann (27 Jan 2012)

The assessment is correct - family rate (personal & qualified adult) less means assessed.


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## eastbono (27 Jan 2012)

That is the means test result. I am curious to know if she has been deemed habitually resident?


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## gipimann (27 Jan 2012)

She must have been in order to get Jobseeker's Allowance.


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## eastbono (28 Jan 2012)

gipimann said:


> She must have been in order to get Jobseeker's Allowance.



OP stated the result of the means test. He did not say if she had been put into payment. Even if someone his deemed not habitually resident they will still get a means test result.


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## Bronte (30 Jan 2012)

Steve, Gippmann and Ildanach work in social welfare and are an encylopedia on social welfare rules and of great help to people on here.  Sometimes the people in the local social welfare offices do not know all the rules.


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## Bronte (30 Jan 2012)

castleforbes said:


> Can I ask why she is moving here and already looking for benifits. Whey not stay in the country that your from and paid your taxs to when you cannot support yourself in a new country


 
Isn't this just awful.  How about all the Irish people that are welcomed down though the years in the UK, would you say the same to those who are being forced to leave.


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## Steve Allen (30 Jan 2012)

Thanks Gipimann. For some reason i had it in my head that the qualified adult thing only came into it if i too was getting some form of social welfare payment. 

We'll give the appeal a go so. Thanks for all the replies guys, well apart from our xenophobe friend!


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## vicar1 (23 Jan 2014)

*claiming Irish benefits using UK stamps*

Hello!

Looking for advice please. My wife ( born in UK ) is currently on Incapacity Benefit payed from UK. We moved home 18 years ago, she was on Incapacity when we left having been pensioned out of her job due to ill health. Her benefit  will stop in July, as she has been assessed as being able for some work ( not physical etc ). Can she claim Job seekers Benefit here while she is looking for work? I work full time and dont think we would qualify for any means tested benefits. 

Any help much appreciated.


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## donkeyhag (1 Feb 2014)

Hi, We are in a similar position,my husband's benefit will cease in August.I am retired but he still has a few years to go.I was hoping you had some replies!! If I find anything out I'll let you know.


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## gipimann (2 Feb 2014)

Vicar1, your wife can apply for jobseekers allowance if she's available for and looking for work. It will be means tested on household income and savings.
Donkeyhag, a similar situation may apply - you might be able to claim an increase on your pension for your husband depending on the type of pension you have.


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## donkeyhag (3 Feb 2014)

Thank you, I'll have to look into this.I went to our local citizens advice centre but  the queue was out the door!


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