# SEI Grant. Why plumbers are suggesting me only to change the boiler!



## stella (15 Apr 2010)

Hello to All,

I had 2 plumbers registered with the SEI in my house and both of them suggested me to change only the boiler and not to get the heating controls in place (which will ensure me the 700€ as SEI grants). The reason they are giving is that the boiler replacement plus installation of heating controls will cost me 4000€....and the work is pretty major in the house. So in a way not worth it.

Now I don't want to spend money if I don't need to but I woud like to ask the Forum. Am I missing something here? Why the 2 plumbers are not pushing for 4000€ instead of the half for the boiler replacement?

Thanks
Stella


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## Towger (15 Apr 2010)

They are plumbers... Installing the heating controls requires wires and electricity. Not their area of expertise, they may have to sub out the job, so not interested in it. It is not exactly high tech work, but there you go. BTW It should be possible to find a good person/company who can do both.


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## stella (15 Apr 2010)

Hi Towger,

thanks for the reply. Do you suggest to do this kind of work or only to replace the boiler?
Thanks
Stella


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## davidoco (15 Apr 2010)

stella said:


> Why the 2 plumbers are not pushing for 4000€ instead of the half for the boiler replacement?



Are you saying here that you were quoted €2,000 for the boiler replacement and a further €2,000 for the controls update?   

In almost all cases unless your boiler is a total wreck and on it's last legs - IMO -  heating controls upgrade is where you are going to get the comfort and savings from.  For example a boiler @ 50% efficiency heating all rads and hot water on a timed only basis is probably down at 25% efficiency whereas the same boiler @ 50% efficiency heating hot water on time/temp and space on time/temp/zoned could be thought to be running at that 50% efficiency.

PS even with top of the range wireless programmers/valves/relays I don't know how it going to cost you €2,000 to upgrade the controls unless access to key pipes is going to involve a lot of work.


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## stella (15 Apr 2010)

This is the quote I got 4000€ from both plumbers. And the boiler should be @92% efficiency....not sure what to do...


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## serotoninsid (15 Apr 2010)

stella said:


> This is the quote I got 4000€ from both plumbers. And the boiler should be @92% efficiency....not sure what to do...


 Get some more prices! (and don't stop until you get a reasonable price!)


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## hopalong (15 Apr 2010)

does the quote of €2,000 for the boiler replacement include the new boiler and labour to fit,and if there is a 700 euro grant,is the final bill 1300 euro.will they take the old one away.


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## DavyJones (15 Apr 2010)

Towger said:


> They are plumbers... Installing the heating controls requires wires and electricity. Not their area of expertise, they may have to sub out the job, so not interested in it. It is not exactly high tech work, but there you go. BTW It should be possible to find a good person/company who can do both.



why would they be on the SEI list then? A grant of €200 is allowed for the boiler, this on it's own will not qualify you for grant. (minimum claim €400) Heating controls up grade is a €500 grant. Basically you don't get grant if you just fit boiler, but you could if you just up graded heating controls. The norm would be that the SEI contractor would offer both, giving a total grant of €700. So no point in being SEI registered if all you will do is change boilers.

Interlocking a system electrically is complicated enough.

Stella , In my opinion, you home is probably not piped correcty to meet SEI requirements without major remedial work. It may be cheaper for you to just fit thermostatic valves on all rads and a stat and motorised valve at cylinder, and forget about the grant. Your installers should have advised.

If two installers are giving that price, which at 4k is roughy €1100 over the industry norm (Munster). There is alot of extra work.


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## stella (15 Apr 2010)

Hi There,

I got the following quotation to fit a Flexicom 18KW new boiler=> 2,100 euros. Extra I need to pay the water supply for the heating system. Is this a fair price?
DavyJones - actually one of the plumbers suggested me to fit thermostatic valves - is this going to help me saving money with the gas bill?

Thanks again

Very complicated to decide what's best

Stella


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## quentingargan (16 Apr 2010)

I think there is some way to go on this zoning technology. I met someone today at the show in the RDS (not on a stand) who is working on this as a project. 

It should be feasible to zone every room in a house wirelessly with individual valves on every radiator and room temperature probes. For example, zoning all of upstairs as bedroom space is daft because one room on the east of the house has solar gain in the morning, while the west of the house will get this in the evening. 

I can see iphone apps coming down the line that let you key in that granny is visiting on September 3rd and to warm that room for two days. 

Sorry - that may not help your question. I would shop around - there is probably no shortage of boiler installers, but you may find someone with better ideas on zoning that don't come to €2K.


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## stella (16 Apr 2010)

Actually the quote is only for boiler replacement not to install heating controls.....


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## davidoco (16 Apr 2010)

quentingargan said:


> It should be feasible to zone every room in a house wirelessly with individual valves on every radiator and room temperature probes.


 
Available at your local plumbing merchant if you got the cash





quentingargan said:


> zoning all of upstairs as bedroom space is daft because one room on the east of the house has solar gain in the morning, while the west of the house will get this in the evening.


 
I disagree.  Zone your bedroom area, fit TRVs on the rads therefore south facing bedroom which is up to temperature does not call for heat, north facing colder bedroom calls for heat - job done with 1 zone valve (50 euro) and x number of TRVs (20 euro)


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## villa 1 (16 Apr 2010)

Watch out for dodgy TRV's, as the pins in the valve body stick leading to malfunction.


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## stella (16 Apr 2010)

Thanks to all. What is the brand and model I should aim for the heating controls? Honeywell? but which ones?

Also I got another quotation and to change boiler and install heating controls 2,350 euros - I am wondering why one installer is asking 2,100 euro only to change the boiler and the other one just a little bit more to fit the heating controls....

I can't really explain such big difference!


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## davidoco (16 Apr 2010)

stella said:


> Thanks to all. What is the brand and model I should aim for the heating controls? Honeywell? but which ones?



[broken link removed]



stella said:


> Also I got another quotation and to change boiler and install heating controls 2,350 euros -
> I can't really explain such big difference!



We'll be posting here for weeks (it will be summer then and you won't remember the cold) if you don't supply some more facts when posting, for example.  

"I spoke to another plumber yesterday, he quoted me 2,350 which includes a new x gas boiler, zoned hot water, x number of trvs, 3 channel time clock, all plumbing, zone valve".

In order to compare these quotes you are getting you need to get a handle on what you would like, therefore I'm going to assume you have a difficult setup regarding access to pipe work, therefore the CM Zone stuff is the one for you.  CM Zone will allow you to zone to your hearts content without interfering with the pipe work.  Here are the prices.  [broken link removed]


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## DavyJones (16 Apr 2010)

Have you written quotes? maybe sharing them here would be useful.


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## stella (19 Apr 2010)

Yes I have a quote for 3,000 including:
- fitting of Baxi Megaflow boiler
- Flushing of water system
- Heating controls

Because apparently I am missing a return pipe in my hot press , they need to build a new feed to the system...hence the price.

Thanks for any advice
Kind Regards
Stella


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