# How to wipe clean all traces on PC?



## Randy (8 Mar 2010)

Hi all,

I'm in the process of changing my old pc for a new laptop, I want to give the pc to a friend of mine, but want to make sure all traces are removed first....does anyone know how to do this?

Thanks


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## canicemcavoy (8 Mar 2010)

When you say "all traces", do you want to leave the operating system in place, or completely delete any information from the hard drive?


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## j26 (8 Mar 2010)

Take out the hard drive and give it to him without one?  It's the only truly safe way as far as I know.

I know macs have a 35 pass erase that writes zeroes (or something) onto a drive 35 times to erase virtually any trace of the previous information.  I'm sure Windows has something similar, or at least there is some software to do it.

Check out http://download.cnet.com/windows/ and you'll probably find a free utility that will do it.


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## Randy (8 Mar 2010)

canicemcavoy said:


> When you say "all traces", do you want to leave the operating system in place, or completely delete any information from the hard drive?


 
Yes I want to retain the existing operating system and leave them with a useable pc, but need to make sure that any personal info/files etc are cleared


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## canicemcavoy (8 Mar 2010)

Randy said:


> Yes I want to retain the existing operating system and leave them with a useable pc, but need to make sure that any personal info/files etc are cleared


 
It would probably be better - presuming that you have the original OS installation CD - to make sure you've removed all files you want, then re-install the OS, formatting the hard disk in the process. There's really no certain way of removing all unwanted files; Windows has a horrible habit of burying personal data in various nooks and crannies.


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## tallpaul (8 Mar 2010)

If you have the original operating system disc, you could reinstall Windows which will wipe everything. Otherwise check to see if your PC has a hidden partition (Google search your model no.). If so, this usually contains an image of the PC as to when you first bought it. Selecting a destructive reinstall from this image should also format your hard drive, wiping everything...


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## Pique318 (8 Mar 2010)

Download CCleaner. It's got the 35 pass delete option and you can also use it to optimise your PC by removing unused programs, regristry settings, temp files etc...


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## Caveat (8 Mar 2010)

I've wondered about this 35 pass thing. Is it regarded as any good, independently I mean? OK it _sounds_ impressive but...


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## Caveat (8 Mar 2010)

iqon77 said:


> CCleaner is a trojan.


 
Can you elaborate please?


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## canicemcavoy (8 Mar 2010)

iqon77 said:


> CCleaner is a trojan.


 
Not as far as I'm aware. This story appears to have been a result of false positives generated by a single anti-virus app last year.

It's a good program if you are using the PC yourself. But it doesn't miraculous hunt out every personal file, so it's not a sure solution if you are passing the PC on.


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## runner (8 Mar 2010)

Ive used CCleaner for years without problems.


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## demoivre (8 Mar 2010)

runner said:


> Ive used CCleaner for years without problems.



+1. CCleaner is Gizmo's first choice in it's category - I've been reading this guy's reviews for years and never had any problems with any of his recommendations. I've also scanned CCleaner on my own PC with Avast, Malawarebytes and SuperAntispyware and there are no problems showing up.


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## Towger (8 Mar 2010)

The fact that he had to buy a new Hard Disk after running CCLeaner tells a lot. I hope you dont let him near your computer!


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## MANTO (8 Mar 2010)

He most likely downloaded a dodgy copy from a Warez site or Torrent. CCleaner is excellent.


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## mathepac (8 Mar 2010)

j26 said:


> ... I know macs have a 35 pass erase that writes zeroes (or something) onto a drive 35 times to erase virtually any trace of the previous information...


Macs have 3 options in the OS for "removing" unwanted files :


 Empty Trash command (standard) simply removes the file's entry in the hard-disk index and the contents can be recovered fairly easily
 Semi-secure Empty Trash command (optional) does as 1 above and also writes random bits over the physical area the file occupied using 7 passes and flags the area as free, meaning it can be over-written immediately with another file. The contents of the original may still be recoverable, with some difficulty and with the use of software.
 Secure Empty Trash command (optional) does as 1 and 2 above and also  writes random bits over the physical area the file occupied using an additional 28 passes and flags the area as free, meaning it can be over-written  immediately with another file. The contents of the original are generally not  recoverable without using special software.
Options 2 & 3 can take considerable time and system resources but may be useful for low-capacity removable storage e.g. USB pens, memory-cards, etc


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## j26 (8 Mar 2010)

mathepac said:


> Macs have 3 options in the OS for "removing" unwanted files :
> 
> 
> Empty Trash command (standard) simply removes the file's entry in the hard-disk index and the contents can be recovered fairly easily
> ...



I was talking about Erase in Disk Utility.  If I was erasing data to pass on a computer, I'd erase the entire drive and reinstall the os (well actually I'd whip out the drive, but if I couldn't....).


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## Randy (10 Mar 2010)

Thanks for all the replies especially no's 8 to 15, they were especially helpful and completely answered the question I asked


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## Caveat (10 Mar 2010)

Maybe you can *pay* for a PC consultant the next time since you are so unsatisfied?

Unbelievable.


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## Randy (10 Mar 2010)

Caveat said:


> Maybe you can *pay* for a PC consultant the next time since you are so unsatisfied?
> 
> Unbelievable.


 
Sorry to have upset you Caveat. 
However, I am sure you would agree that my point regarding answers 8-15 is correct as they have nothing to do with my original question. 
Now let me know if I am wrong, but I believed that AAM was a forum for asking questions to which one doesn't know the answer to and that fellow contribtors would respond with the answer.

Unbelieveable indeed!


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## Caveat (10 Mar 2010)

Randy said:


> However, I am sure you would agree that my point regarding answers 8-15 is correct as they have nothing to do with my original question.


 
No I wouldn't.

I would have thought that discussion on the effectiveness of _CCleaner_ (which features a disk erasing facility) and how to avoid downloading a dodgy version of it amongst other things was entirely relevant.

There is no single magic answer to your question.


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## Pique318 (11 Mar 2010)

I use CCleaner on my work PC and it's protected with Symantec Antivirus. Never caused any alerts.
I trust it (as do Symantec apparently !)


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

tallpaul said:


> If you have the original operating system disc, you could reinstall Windows which will wipe everything. Otherwise check to see if your PC has a hidden partition (Google search your model no.). If so, this usually contains an image of the PC as to when you first bought it. Selecting a destructive reinstall from this image should also format your hard drive, wiping everything...


 




canicemcavoy said:


> It would probably be better - presuming that you have the original OS installation CD - to make sure you've removed all files you want, then re-install the OS, formatting the hard disk in the process. There's really no certain way of removing all unwanted files; Windows has a horrible habit of burying personal data in various nooks and crannies.


 

Formatting does not wipe the data.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

Caveat said:


> I've wondered about this 35 pass thing. Is it regarded as any good, independently I mean? OK it _sounds_ impressive but...


 
All you need is a  single overwrite with random data. Doing it multiple times is great, but all its really doing is taking longer. As the data was deleted as soon as it was overwritten the first time.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

Randy said:


> Yes I want to retain the existing operating system and leave them with a useable pc, but need to make sure that any personal info/files etc are cleared


 
The operating system itself has a lot of info within it. You'd be best to delete it. Securely wipe the drive then reinstall the OS. 

You do this with a bootable CD that can run a secure erase utility. 

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&source=...=&aq=0&oq=Bootable+Secure&fp=ca9b89c6a118c111

I'll add my vote that CCleaner is a great little app. Apart from the erase functionality it cleans out all the temp crud on your windows. Some PC's speed up dramatically afterwards.


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## michaelm (11 Mar 2010)

To ensure all personal files have been removed and that the PC is handed over in a working condition I would boot on a ubuntu 9.10 CD and do a new OS install using the entire hard disk.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

As far as I know even with a reformat and install of a new OS, you are still not overwriting the data on the disk. 

Mind you only a techie could recove any data from it, most people won't.


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## michaelm (11 Mar 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> As far as I know even with a reformat and install of a new OS, you are still not overwriting the data on the disk.


No, if you format and reinstall it's gone (bar some NSA forensic analysis of magnetic resonance on the disk platters or some other MiB technique).


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## redskyatnigh (11 Mar 2010)

test


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## redskyatnigh (11 Mar 2010)

Easiest way and it takes only ten mins and anyone can do it
1. Was your PC made by the main manufacturers, Dell, HP ,....
2. Was it made since 2004
3. on start up press ctrl, alt & F11 all the same time.... wait about two seconds after pressing the power on button. 
4. You will be taken to a restore factory settings page.
5. Click restore, sit back and relax and your PC will be clean in less than ten mins and your programs will be set back to their orginal state when you took it out of the box... for example all trail software will start back to day one


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

michaelm said:


> No, if you format and reinstall it's gone (bar some NSA forensic analysis of magnetic resonance on the disk platters or some other MiB technique).


 
No it doesn't. We did it in college as part of a computer forensics project. Put some files on a disk. Format it. Then recover them. We could do it, and we didn't put much effort in either. Basically just downloaded some linux software from the web. The files we recovered were mixed up but readable. We just had to prove it could be done. 



redskyatnigh said:


> Easiest way and it takes only ten mins and anyone can do it
> 1. Was your PC made by the main manufacturers, Dell, HP ,....
> 2. Was it made since 2004
> 3. on start up press ctrl, alt & F11 all the same time.... wait about two seconds after pressing the power on button.
> ...


 
Thats doesn't wipe the data either. It probably doesn't even format the disk just deletes the files.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

Deleting files doesn't delete them. It just marks the space available to be rewritten. But it isn't overwritten until someone actually copies data on that space. 

Which is what the secure erase tools to. They overwite all the space with random data. Once is enough. But multiple passes is to be sure to be sure. 

Which is why they take ages to run on a large drive, and why deleting all files doesn't.


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## michaelm (11 Mar 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> Deleting files doesn't delete them. It just marks the space available to be rewritten.


No one is arguing to the contrary.





AlbacoreA said:


> No it doesn't. We did it in college as part of a computer forensics project. Put some files on a disk. Format it. Then recover them. We could do it, and we didn't put much effort in either.


Maybe you did a quick format.  If you delete the partition table, create new partitions, full format, and install a new OS  . . well I don't think you're recovering anything after that, college forensics notwithstanding.


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## tallpaul (11 Mar 2010)

I think the point is that this was something you learned in college and is not something that average Joe or Joesphine User is familiar with or would be bothered to do.

The OP asked how to wipe a PC so that he/she could do a good deed and pass it on to his/her friend. Following the suggestions in this thread will satisfy that request unless the 'friend' turns out to be some identity-theft-seeking-weirdo...


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

michaelm said:


> No one is arguing to the contrary.Maybe you did a quick format. If you delete the partition table, create new partitions, full format, and install a new OS . . well I don't think you're recovering anything after that, college forensics notwithstanding.


 
You can get programs to recover paritions, bootsectors, and reformatted drives. Its not rocket science. Only installing the OS overwrites data and then only the part of the disk where the OS is. The rest of the disk the data is not overwritten. Its just logic. Deleting files and formating drives doesn't wipe data.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Mar 2010)

tallpaul said:


> I think the point is that this was something you learned in college and is not something that average Joe or Joesphine User is familiar with or would be bothered to do.
> 
> The OP asked how to wipe a PC so that he/she could do a good deed and pass it on to his/her friend. Following the suggestions in this thread will satisfy that request unless the 'friend' turns out to be some identity-theft-seeking-weirdo...


 
I made that point earlier. 



AlbacoreA said:


> ...
> Mind you only a techie could recover any data from it, most people won't.


 
Of course you don't know whats going to happen to the drive after you give it to someone. They might just decide to dump it, and buy a new PC. 

The point is some of you are posting incorrect information. Formating and reinstalling the drive does not wipe the data from the drive. 

Therefore you SHOULD run a secure erase on the disk.


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## michaelm (12 Mar 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> Only installing the OS overwrites data and then only the part of the disk where the OS is.


This is correct.  My earlier posts were not entirely accurate .  Following a re-installation of an OS one would need to do a secure erase of free space to eliminate the possibility of files being recovered.


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## Caveat (12 Mar 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> All you need is a single overwrite with random data. Doing it multiple times is great, but all its really doing is taking longer. As the data was deleted as soon as it was overwritten the first time.


 
Not being smart but what's the point of it then?

If the data was deleted after 1 pass why even have the 3, 7 or 35 passes and why is doing it multiple times great?


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## AlbacoreA (12 Mar 2010)

Caveat said:


> Not being smart but what's the point of it then?
> 
> If the data was deleted after 1 pass why even have the 3, 7 or 35 passes and why is doing it multiple times great?


 
Not entirely sure to be honest. I think in theory you can get old data off a drive if its been on it a long time, though something to do with magnetic thingybobs. But I looked into it, and aparently its never been actually done in practice. Not that anyones saying anyway. There maybe some other techniques to read overwritten data but I'm guessing thats pretty remote even from someone with time on their hands just digging around on old machines pulled from skips.


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## AlbacoreA (12 Mar 2010)

fto said:


> i think you are looking too far into it, If you just want to clean the computer so that you cannot easily view old files (when i say easily as not have to have a computing degree) just insert your windows disc format you hard drive while installing a new version of windows. yes it is possible if you have specialist programmes to get some of the data, but if you are just worried about a friend or child finding out you had some jonny vaugn on you computer, a reformat is sufficient.


 
Reformat, re-install windows. But I think its important to then use CCleaner to wipe the free disk space. Thats all.


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## AlbacoreA (12 Mar 2010)

I'd say most people do not have anything important on their computers anyway. If it was holding important data, I'd wipe the disk, remove it and drill a hole through it.


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## michaelm (12 Mar 2010)

Caveat said:


> If the data was deleted after 1 pass why even have the 3, 7 or 35 passes and why is doing it multiple times great?


It is claimed(by the paranoid), but not proven, that intelligence agencies could use magnetic force microscopes to reconstruct overwritten data and that therefore one would need to use multiple passes (such as the Gutmann method) to counter this.  Of course, as someone? once said, "just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you."


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