# Supervising Engineer - refusing Cert of Compliance



## Maryb50 (21 Mar 2017)

Hi! Can anyone advise what to do if Supervising Engineer refuses to give Cert of Compliance when work has been done and he has been paid. There is no reason for this - though he made a big mistake with planning which is now sorted. IEI involved. Looking at going legal now - is this the only resort.


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## Sue Ellen (21 Mar 2017)

Hi Maryb50,

I have moved your thread to Sites, planning, self-builds and extensions forum as you may get more replies there.  A copy of this thread will remain in the Askaboutlaw forum also for 2 months which therefore covers all options.

S.E.


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## Seagull (22 Mar 2017)

What reason is he giving for not giving the cert? Is he saying that the building does not meet requirements? If he's the supervising engineer, that implies he was responsible for overseeing the project and ensuring all building was OK. If that's the case, and there are issues with the build, you probably need to chase his professional insurance.


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## nutty nut (23 Mar 2017)

As stated above by Seagull perhaps you could clarify why he wont provide the cert. very difficult to give you any advice without the full facts


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## Maryb50 (25 Mar 2017)

Thanks Seagull and Nutty Nut for your replies. He won't supply the Compliance Certs unless I withdraw my complaint from Institute Engineers Ireland, and state that I will make no further claims in the future against him. My solicitor has advised me that I cannot do this as defects in the building can become apparent over time. 

The engineer is also refusing to supply me with any details of the supports used to strengthen the attic conversion, and any supports used to strengthen the roof in the extension. 

He made a huge mistake on planning - basically he told me I could knock and slightly extend an exempted previous unauthorised development, and I would still retain the exemption, but actually by slightly extending the original extension, I lost the exemption, and had to pay several thousand in contributions as we had to go for retention.

Then one of the conditions of the retention was that the foul and surface water should be separated, but he didn't do that - foul and rain water were together in all these old houses, but now are required to be separated. 

He advertises as a Consulting Structural and Civil Engineer, but apparently is only an associate engineer, and  can't sign off on anything to do with BCR. However,  the extension is not over 40q metres, BCR doesn't apply to this. However, though he tells me he is still an Assigned Certifier as he has PI insurance, I'm beginning to doubt this, as I waded through a lot of the planning decisions that had his company on it, and it was always someone else who did the certifying. Any suggestions on all this?  So stressful? If he doesn't have PI, or won't give me details of it, where do we go with all this?


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## SirMille (26 Mar 2017)

You have paid for his services, he is legally forced to hand over said document, tort law.

Complaints, past or future, are an irrelevance and are to be treated separately.

Edited to add, be careful not to post anything that could identify the guy, it could be considered libellous.


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## Seagull (28 Mar 2017)

It's beginning to look like you're heading for court. Based on what you've written, he can't actually provide the certs because it's non-compliant. I wouldn't be too concerned about someone else signing off on plans and documents. Associate engineers can be very good, but just did a different qualification that doesn't allow them to sign documents. 

Is he acting solo and just having his documents signed by a qualified engineer, or is he part of a larger company? If part of a larger company, then there should definitely be PI in place.


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## Maryb50 (28 Mar 2017)

Hi! SirMillie and Seagul, yes, it does look like it's heading for Court - even my solicitor, whose normally open to trying other routes first, is of this opinion. I'm confused as he said he had PI insurance, even though only an associate engineer, yet when I've looked at planning permissions that have been granted to his company, it's always another assigned certifier. How can this guy pass himself off on his website as able to do planning permission, and give certification for building regulations - it's nuts that this is allowed to happen - most people, including myself, in general public wouldn't question this.

If he has no PI insurance, what happens to the legal costs if we go the legal route, as now seems likely. I think he has a biggest mortgage on his house - just ordinary middle class guy. He said he has PI insurance, but never produced the Cert. He's a sole practitioner. What a mess!! So so stressful!!


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## SirMille (28 Mar 2017)

You have this guy over a barrel, the ball is in your court, it's lose lose for him.

Tell him to provide solutions and you take your pick, tell him to provide solutions or its court time. He will lose.


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## Maryb50 (28 Mar 2017)

Hi! SirMille, yes we do have him over a barrel, but he is very slow to provide solutions. I would rather him provide the solutions than go to Court, but I'm not sure I can see this happening.


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## Seagull (29 Mar 2017)

I have a friend who would have a similar qualification. He's qualified to put in the planning application and oversee the works. I'm not sure about signing off on the compliance cert. I know he's not allowed to sign off any design plans or documents.


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## Leo (29 Mar 2017)

Maryb50 said:


> ...even though only an associate engineer



There's no legal protection for the term engineer in Ireland, so anyone can call themselves one regardless of education, training, or competence.


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## twofor1 (29 Mar 2017)

Very true Leo, as a young lad before self-service caught on, I worked as a Fuel Injection Engineer in the local petrol station.


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## Maryb50 (30 Mar 2017)

Thanks Leo, Seagull, Twofort for your replies. 

The guy actually apparently has a degree in Civil Engineering and is in IEI, and seems to have been in practice for 14 years, but really got so many basic planning rules wrong, and there was so many compliance issues, issues that contravened building regulations - it's hard to believe that he has escaped this long without being sued - it's such a mess, drainage issues, everything. 

Currently looking at suing builder for breach of contract and engineer for negligence. Just wondered how can he keep promising Certificate of Compliance and not give it - final inspection was last Sept - I have ancillary certs on Opinion on Compliance for him for Radon, Damp Course, Foundations (builder supplied Cert and also Cert re no pyrite), RECI, REGI, Insulation, but not the Cert of Compliance for whole house. 

Apart from huge mistake he made on planning which means we had to go for retention. He didn't alter the drainage of the original house - leaving it still with foul and rain water together - this is apparently against building regs, but most old houses apparently had combined systems like this, but he should have altered it, and it was a condition of retention that he supply map of drainage and explanation of why he did this, but has not approached Council at all, and the date is fast approaching for submission of this information. 

A complaint has been made to his professional body - people like this should not be allowed to practice.


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## kceire (24 Apr 2017)

Nothing wrong with an Associate Engineer, you can have PI to sign off projects with a lesser title from IEI.
Who filled out the Commencement Notice?
Does SI365 or SI9 apply?

You mention BCR....but to what reference?
I assume you mean BCAR? (Building Control Amendment Regulations)?

How big was the extension?

Separating the drainage is usually done at the last exit. So a the surface water joins the foul and continues into the public system with a dead leg from the surface for future development if it occurs on the public street.

What council is this?


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