# Esat won't stop direct debits



## joanmul (26 Sep 2005)

In October 2004 my husband and I changed from Esat to Eircom.   In all that time I have been unable to get Esat to stop our account.   I've written to them and to my bank.   While my bank reverses the debits every time I notify them Esat won't acknowledge that we no longer do business with them.   In desperation, I'm thinking of writing to the Ombudsman and Joe Duffy.   Has anyone out there any suggestions as to what I can do.   There is never a name or person in Esat that I can contact to deal with the matter.   After a year I'm fed up to the teeth with the whole business.   My Bank says that it is between myself and Esat, that they must process a direct debit when they receive it because I signed it originally.   HELP!


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## etel (26 Sep 2005)

see this website

www.btireland-sucks.com 

for advice


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## stobear (27 Sep 2005)

Nice response above! 

I moved from Esat to UTV about 3 months ago. I was moving house so closed down the account (or so I thought), last week they took money from me using DD. I have contacted them and will continue to hound them until they resolve the issue.

When I closed the account they owed my money for the line rental, it took about 5 weeks to get my cheque off them. The key here is to chase and chase and chase, once they know you wont give up it will be easier for them to resolve the problem.


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## Sierra (27 Sep 2005)

Oh don't mention those lot to me 

The're an unbelievable shower. 

I changed from Eircom to them a few years ago for the Internet surf no limits package meaning I could surf off peak for as long a I wanted for a fixed charge. They sent me their software & I had difficulty loading it on; something to do with the phone number they gave me to log on being incorrect. Anyway I rang their technical support & they told me to key in a number which worked which was supposed by bypass Eircoms lines.

All was fine you might think, it was until I got my friggin Eircom phone bill. Turned out I was billed for Internet access by Eircom & Esat. So I rang Esat & they told me that I'd keyed in the wrong number hence I was liable. I told them that their technical support had given me the number but they insisted I was liable. 

Anyway I rang the telephone regulatory people & she was nearly able to mouth what I was going to say before I said such was the disportionate number of people who'd called re: the same problem in a short time. Unfortunately for Esat these customers weren't trained as a computer technician as I was so while they accepted when they were told they were at fault I knew I was most likely not. Trouble is the telephone regulatory body then anyway were like a tiger with no teeth who told me to let them take the final direct debit (though they stopped there, I made sure with the bank that they did, being a regular, known customer that wasn't a prob, it pays to get in with your bank personnel) and could only go so far re: my complaint so eventually I decided to sue Esat in the small claims court. 

Now you're not talking about big bucks here mate, I think less than €100 but it was the principle of the matter that counted. So I sued them in the small claims court which was low risk & cheap from my point of view.  Anyway they refused to make an appearance so I won by default after a year of fighting them though I was saddened not to be able to take them on in court cause I was rearing to get at them.

Anyway they still ignored it so eventually the sheriff had to go out to their offices to collect the money from them, can you believe it, all for less than €100. However I won eventually, David against Goliath & I won. 

My advice: Stay away from there, the're a shower of crooks. 

Anyway I try to limit the amount of direct debits I allow. Personally I don't like it, like to have as much control over what goes out of my bank account as possible.


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## podgerodge (28 Sep 2005)

That's gas. My father was with them for a year and we just could NOT get them to take any money from us after the first bill despite dozens of phone calls - eventually (8 months later) they fixed the billing system and sent him a letter saying he owed a couple of hundred euro and that they would take it out of his bank account.  No money got taken out but the system shows he paid it about 5 months ago. He has since gone to UTV.


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## TarfHead (28 Sep 2005)

My gripe with them was they stopped debiting me for bills and then sent me snotty letters about my account being in arrears. They then disabled outbound calls even though I had been assured (verbally) that the fault was on their side.

I went with them for everything (calls, line rental, broadband) cos I have an irrational bias against eircom. The next time they screw up, I'll be off to the next lot.


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## redstar (28 Sep 2005)

> In all that time I have been unable to get Esat to stop our account. I've written to them and to my bank. While my bank reverses the debits every time I notify them Esat won't acknowledge that we no longer do business with themMy Bank says that it is between myself and Esat, that they must process a direct debit when they receive it because I signed it originally



Sounds like Esats billing system and customer service is a shambles. As a last resort you could consider closing your bank account and open a new one, either in the same bank or somewhere else. Then, any further DDs will just be calling on a dead account. I know its  a lot of hassle to changes accounts, but weigh this against how badly you want rid of the problem.   

Is any money actually taken from the account by the DD ?



> My Bank says that it is between myself and Esat, that they must process a direct debit when they receive it because I signed it originally


I thought that DD agreements were in force until cancelled by notifying the bank in writing (which you seem to have done) ?


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## mobileme (28 Sep 2005)

I had a problem with EsatBT earlier in the year. Two years ago, when living in a rented house, the Esat bill was in my name, and DD from my account. Details were changed when I left house, and bank notified in writing of cessation of DD. 

Over the summer, I noticed a DD leaving my account to them and contacted them and the bank straight away. The bank 'recalled' the funds and charged me €6.35 for the privilege. Esat admitted that it was their mistake and were to send me written confirmation of same, and a guarantee that my details had been removed from the account. Needless to say, this never arrived and afte a number of calls, I gave up. Keeping a close eye on DDs though...


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## Humpback (28 Sep 2005)

podgerodge said:
			
		

> we just could NOT get them to take any money from us after the first bill .


 
Something similar with me. Got their free broadband deal and then cancelled just before it was due to finish.

Sent letter (as necessary though everything else was electronic), dear sirs, please cancel etc, and let me know how you want to get your modem kit back. Not a response since. Totally ignored. 

Cheers for the free broadband modem though. Will save me money on the other broadband gougers who are charging for them.


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## RainyDay (28 Sep 2005)

joanmul said:
			
		

> My Bank says that it is between myself and Esat, that they must process a direct debit when they receive it because I signed it originally.   HELP!


I'm amazed at this bit (though I've heard similar stories from other posters before. It's crazy that the bank don't have some facility to cancel/expire the DD mandate at their end. Does this mean that any DD originator can debit any account, regardless of whether a mandate is in place or not? I notice that the Revenue's ROS service can [broken link removed] without any apparent need for a signed mandate being sent to the bank first.

Joan - Check the wording on the original mandate you signed (or check the current mandate from Esat of you don't have the original). What does it say about right of cancellation/refund? I note that [broken link removed] mention 'the right to cancel a Direct Debit at any time' - Does this apply to you? Can you bump the work over to your bank by simply demanding a refund from them for every transaction pulled by Esat?


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## joanmul (28 Sep 2005)

Hi RainyDay.   Because it's a credit card account it's not really an option to change around.   Every time I ring the bank that's what they tell me - the direct debit we signed is with Esat so the Bank have to honour any and every debit presented to them.   I get the charge reversed and have got Esat to acknowledge (verbally) that they shouldn't be doing this but they just don't seem to be bothered to follow through in their office with the needful to cancel.   The main reason - apart from credit card government fees etc. - for not changing the credit card and closing the account is that it is a staff account.   I'm going to see if I can highlight this in the media or do something seeing as I'm not alone with this problem.


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## Guest127 (28 Sep 2005)

whats the diffence in standing order and direct debit? I have a few direct debits ie concern is one and sometimes I change the amount by just contacting the bank by dropping them a note to change the amount until further notice. never had a problem with them but having said that I prefer to get my bills by post and  pay them either in the post office or by banking ( in my case 365). maybe the credit card dd is more difficult as maybe the credit card company is being billed by esat and in turn its the credit card company and not esat who are taking the direct debit?


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## Decani (28 Sep 2005)

Why not report the credit card stolen? I've had problems with Esat and billing in the past though not as bad as yours. The only way it got resolved was to email Bill Murphy himself and it all got sorted with muchos apologies over a single weekend. It's worked for many others and we hold Bill in high esteem. But you've got to question his ability to manage something so simple if he hasn't learned anything from so many many people mailing him with their woes. If you wander over to the broadband forum over on http://www.boards.ie you should find solace in other BT and ex-BT'ers in similar situations. If you search, you'll find Bill Murphy's email address. FWIW there have been developments on [broken link removed] over the past few days.


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## RainyDay (28 Sep 2005)

cuchulainn said:
			
		

> whats the diffence in standing order and direct debit?


Push vs Pull - A DD is pulled by the receipient into their account and the amount can vary with each transaction. A SO is pushed by you from your account into theirs and is normally for a fixed amount.



			
				joanmul said:
			
		

> Hi RainyDay.   Because it's a credit card account it's not really an option to change around.


Thanks for clarifying, but I'm still wondering what's the point at all of signing a mandate. I'm starting to suspect that the mandate doesn't really matter at all - because there it seems that there is nothing on their system that explicitly gives Esat permission to hit your account. If there was such an item on the bank system, it could be easily be deleted or expired.


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## Seagull (29 Sep 2005)

You have to sign a mandate to allow a company to take a direct debit from your account. Notifying the bank that you are cancelling the mandate should do exactly that. It's ludicrous that the banks claim that they can't do anything. Tell them that their options are either to remove the direct debit from your account or lose your business.


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## bond-007 (29 Sep 2005)

Seagull said:
			
		

> You have to sign a mandate to allow a company to take a direct debit from your account. Notifying the bank that you are cancelling the mandate should do exactly that. It's ludicrous that the banks claim that they can't do anything. Tell them that their options are either to remove the direct debit from your account or lose your business.


 They actually told me that a verbal insruction is enough and is irrevocable.


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## Guest127 (29 Sep 2005)

Thanks Rainyday. Maybe its a standing order I have with concern, dont know.but its been no problem changing the amount.
When in the bank today on company business I asked the bank official ,who I am good terms with, about direct debits and he informed me that LEGALLY the bank have absolutely no right to carry on a direct debit once you have informed them to cease it. said that if you inform the bank to cease a direct debit and they dont act on your instruction they MUST refund the amount to your account. Says in fact that direct debits are if anything a bit biased against the bank. Thats what he said.


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## etel (29 Sep 2005)

inform the bank in writing

technically the bank then informs the dd beneficiary who may not subsequently reintroduce the dd according to the T&Cs of their banking but must seek a new mandate


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## joanmul (1 Oct 2005)

Hi Decani.   Thanks for the link about Bill Murphy.   However, I sent off an email addressed to billmurphy@btireland.ie and it came back to me as a failed message.   Could you tell me what way I should have written it.   Mnay thanks.


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## minion (2 Oct 2005)

I had a DD on a credit card before that i wanted stopped.
Bank said they couldnt stop it.  I reported the card stolen and got a new one and the DDs were coming out of that too.
I cancelled the card and got CC bills for the DDs coming from that.
Avoid DDs like the plague.

Anyone with a DD on bank account a bank account that the bank wont cancel at your request should use the oppertunity to close their account and move to a bank with no charges


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## Decani (3 Oct 2005)

You should probably also let ComReg or the ODCA about the problems you're having. More so ODCA as it's not a communications issue per se.


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## stobear (3 Oct 2005)

I am in the same boat, they took 14E off me for no reason, account was cancelled in June. Just wrote to Mr Murphy who said another chap will be back to me shortly 'with answers'. it was sent via a wireless blackberry as a matter of interest, must be trying to stay on top of things!


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## stobear (3 Oct 2005)

Result from Mr. Murphy, confirmation just received that a cheque will be cut for the outstanding amount. Copy of the email from them. Better to have 14E in my pocket than theirs eh?


Thank you for your email

Please be advised that this charge to your account is called a balance charge. This is an error, as this account is closed.

We will cancel this charge to you account and will be crediting you back this €14.12 by cheque asap.

BT would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused. If you wish to speak to an agent, please revert and we will contact you asap.


Update
Yet another email from BT Ireland, the PA to the Customer Services Director (I assume) telling me someone will respond ASAP, not knowing the issue is being resolved. I did however respond to her pointing her in the direction of this thread with a view to maybe escalating the 'billing issues' they seem to have, not just with me but quite a few others also


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## Tubbs (7 Oct 2005)

I had a direct debit with a gym. I moved out of the area so wanted to stop the 50odd euro a month.

I tried to cancel with the gym but they were getting daft, saying that they would need 2 months notice or the like. 

Went into my bank, they said they could not stop the payments out of my account until the gym gave them an instruction! 

I was bloody fuming mad by this.

I decided to phone the bank later and say that the gym were fraudulantly taking money from me.  The bank stopped the payments immediatley.


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## Diziet (7 Oct 2005)

Direct debits should be easy to cancel. Just inform the bank. I have done it plenty of times, and the bank just say to be sure to inform the supplier but cancel it anyway, so if you get hassle from the bank push back to them and quote the direct debit guarantee.

Continuous authority on a credit card looks like a direct debit but it does not carry the same protection for the consumer. My advice would be to never ever sign one of these as they are hard to get rid of and the supplier can keep requesting the money.


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## ClubMan (7 Oct 2005)

Diziet said:
			
		

> Direct debits should be easy to cancel. Just inform the bank. I have done it plenty of times, and the bank just say to be sure to inform the supplier but cancel it anyway, so if you get hassle from the bank push back to them and quote the direct debit guarantee.


Yeah - I've always cancelled _DDs _in this way and have had no problems.


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## Bank Manager (7 Oct 2005)

Must say I'm confused re the hassle you are having cancelling the direct debit.  Customer has two options (and personally I'd always advise to envoke both).  Write to company advising them to stop the direct debit (unfortunately in the majority of cases, they continue to present direct debit) - secondly write to bank advising them to cancel direct debit on current/credit card account.  This in effect cancels the original mandate.  What happens behind the scenes then, is if company present direct debit it will be 'returned' by bank, without being posted to your account.  It really is as simple as that, and there should be no need to close accounts or anything like that.


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## etel (7 Oct 2005)

The issue really is how _properly finally fully totally cancelled and ended_ direct debits come back onto peoples accounts from the likes of Esat and other and the banks claim they are powerless about it .

Is it all done by a dumb computer that never ever checks I wonder 

If so I have a fabulous  idea for a totally massive fraud that will be carried out with the willing collusion of the banks who own this dumb computer that never checks  anything  ever


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