# Why Are The Over 65's D.I.R.T. Exempt



## belview

It does not appear fair that those over 65 if they have savings on deposit are exempt from D.I.R.T. Tax.

Many of these individuals have free travel , free phone , subsidised ESB ,Fuel vouchers, Medical Cards and one of the most generous old age pensions in the world.

There are undoubtably poor pensioners but many are comfortable and are well able to save money. They should pay DIRT Tax on this money like all othe citizens


----------



## Howitzer

Because they all vote.


----------



## DB74

Change the vote for 18-65 year-olds only with a job

Then tax the **** out of everyone else!


----------



## truthseeker

DB74 said:


> Change the vote for 18-65 year-olds only with a job


 
Cmon now - with a job OR independantly wealthy surely!


----------



## Gervan

Only DIRT exempt if joint income below €40000 or single €20000. Well off pensioners do pay DIRT.


----------



## hopalong

the home comforts are means tested from age 65-70.


----------



## McGrath

Over 65's are not exempt from DIRT but it is refundable if covered by their tax credits. That's not the case for under 65's.


----------



## Black Sheep

Gervan
It amuses me that a couple aged over 65 with income of over 40,000 between them are considered "well off" while a couple under the magic age with the same income would come into the "low income" group


----------



## ashambles

DIRT is paid by the bank and then it's up to the pensioner to fill in a form for revenue to get refunded. 

Most pensioners don't want to fill in forms detailing their often small life savings and I seem to remember a few years ago only a few hundred pensioners were availing of the exemption.

It looked like a scheme that allowed the government to claim there was an exemption but in the full knowledge it wasn't going to be used in any meaningful way. 

There's no point in getting rid of an exemption no-one uses, unless you want to draw attention to it and perhaps ensure people use it more.


----------



## jpd

if you entitled to the refund, you can have the interest paid gross


----------



## bacchus

belview said:


> and one of the most generous old age pensions in the world.


Really? can you provide referrences/weblinks for this?


----------



## jpd

Here information from EBS site [broken link removed]

You probably have to ask your bank/building society for the appropiate form


----------



## Gulliver

hopalong said:


> the home comforts are means tested from age 65-70.


 
Hopalong - I presume you are referring to the Household Benefits - TV, Phone, Electricity.  
Where all of the occupants of the household are pensioners, there is no means test, and therefore it is regularly given to a married couple if both are over 65 and in receipt of state pension, and the family has fledged and left the nest.


----------



## moonman

if a couple earn under the limit between them , one is over 65 and the other is under 65 and the under 65 pays 300 dirt  can they claim it back .the older claims for joint tax asessmemt .


----------



## Gervan

Yes moonman, even if the account is in the sole name of the younger partner. Provided the joint Total Income including the deposit interest is below the exemption limit. Limit was €40,000 in 2010, now €36,000 in 2011.
If setting up a new account always complete Form DE1. 
I presume this is after the deposit has been received, since you know €300 DIRT has been paid. In that case you will have to submit a Form 12 after year end to get the DIRT refunded.


----------



## moonman

thanks gervan for that info ,it was paid last year ,and she recieved the end of year statement the other day. i have since been told that i can bring the certificate of payment to the tax office here in dublin and they re adjust things and send a refund in time.


----------



## johnnygman

Black Sheep said:


> Gervan
> It amuses me that a couple aged over 65 with income of over 40,000 between them are considered "well off" while a couple under the magic age with the same income would come into the "low income" group


 

I think to be fair it is has logic, typically speaking most over 65's would have no mortgage or young dependants and would again generally speaking be in a much sounder financial position than most young people/couples.

Couples with an income < 40k a year with the added financial burden outlined would certainly not have anywhere near as much disposable income as 2 over 65's with the same income.

I think the term well off might be pushing it but we are all going to have to pay tax and will all hopefully benefit from the breaks etc.. when the time comes for each individual.


----------



## Perplexed

Hopefully we'll all get to enjoy these benefits someday.
Most of these pensioners didn't have the benefit of free education (and I mean here up to Leaving Cert not even 3rd level ) or the high salaries of the Celtic Tiger cubs.  I don't begrudge them a cent.
A lot of them also help out by minding grandchildren etc or helping out their cash strapped offspring in monetary terms.
Also remember that pensioners often have much higher medical bills.


----------



## browtal

There are different needs for Older People too. Many can no longer do their essential repairs, maintenance and repainting of their homes, as they once used to.
Keeping their gardens is more difficult in older age, many enjoy good health but few escape the effects of arthritis, wear and tear of joints etc. The older generation would not have had the benefit of all the modern conveniences which take the heavy work out of every day living nor the knowledge, that todays young people have of the need to take care of themselves, that we have today. 
Keeping their gardens is often more than many older people can cope with. What used to be easy and very enjoyable, not seems more painful and impossible. 
More Volunteering would be wonderful in many of these situations or a low cost service for those who need it. 
Dont forget the extra heating costs when one is home all day and not very active. Browtal


----------



## roker

Sounds like you are begrudging the OAPs, for something they have got that you have not, why? I have all of the perks, but as an elderly couple we have a lot of medical expenses, we have a GP Visitor card but not a Medical card, every month we pay the maximum €120 for drugs, we have just paid €75 for a hospital out-patient visit for one day, even travel Insurance cost more.

I have savings because I planned ahead and paid into pension system all of my life, as well as my PRSI. I am even paying the new USC on my private pension


----------



## theresa1

Any idea how much a person could have saved before the interest bring's you over the €36,000? My Mother has aprox. €50,000 in savings in one account and another €10,000 in a very low interest a/c. She is afraid to lodge the €10,000 with the €50,000 in case it brings her over a limit. I have looked at revenue but it's impossible to understand any of it.
I would have thought it would be easier just to say once you save say €70,000 you then must pay DIRT for example.

Anybody an easy explanation?


----------



## callybags

If you take a fairly generous interest rate of 4% you would need to have €900,000 on deposit to earn €36,000 in interest.

However the total income of the person is taken into account when calculating if they are over the threshold of 36K for tax purposes.


----------



## theresa1

Income would not include say that they already had €50,000 saved would it?


----------



## Protocol

"Income would not include say that they already had €50,000 saved would it?"

I don't understand this sentence.

I think what you are getting at is that all income including interest is included, and then compared with the 36,000 tax exemption limit????


----------



## Protocol

From the Revenue website:

*DIRT Tax Repayment Claim *


A person or his/her spouse who is:

aged 65 or over or
is permanently incapacitated and
their total income (including the Gross DIRT Income) is less than the relevant exemption limit can claim a repayment of DIRT paid by submitting



[broken link removed]Form 54 Claims - Income Tax Repayment Claim for the year 2010 (PDF, 562KB) (*Incorporating Form 54D - Claim for Repayment of Deposit Interest Retention Tax for the year 2010*) and
Certificates of Interest subject to DIRT to your Revenue Office. Use your PPS number to find the postal address for your Revenue office in our Contact Locator.


----------



## theresa1

"I think what you are getting at is that all income including interest is included, and then compared with the 36,000 tax exemption limit???? "

Yes - is my mother ok with €60,000 saved and still pay no dirt. How high can you go with your savings and still no dirt? The information on the revenue website make's no sense to me.


----------



## Kev

That is very good, wish we had the same in the UK, I am over 65 and  if I earn more than my tax free allowance of £9,940 I will be taxed at 20% which  included interest on saving, part time employement and state pension etc., all income over £9,940 will be taxed at 20%.   

Time I move back home to Ireland me thinks.....


----------



## Protocol

Theresa,

first of all you have to know the person's pension income.  Then you add the interest income.

60k in savings at 4% gross interest rate means about 2,400 in interest.

Add that to the pension income.  By you using 36k means it's a married couple.

Check if the total income, including interest, is less than 36k.


----------



## Protocol

Theresa,

also note that the tax exemption limit is 18k for a single person over 65.

It's 36k for a married couple.


----------



## theresa1

Only on old age pension - single - so basically income for the year plus interest earned and as long as that added together dosent take you over €18,000 your fine?


----------



## Black Sheep

As you do not say whether you mum has Contributory or Non-Contributory I am assuming Contributory Pension of Around 12K. Add to that say 2,400 of interest on savings and the total income is around 14,400. Still below the maximum exemption rate of 18K, therefore no DIRT payable.


----------



## laois1

Can anyone clarify the current income exemption for a 67 year old single person ? I presume the interest on any deposit is counted as income ? Also what changes when you are 70 - are you exempt from dirt regardless of pension ?


----------



## moonman

to belview ,, (post no 1) the reason a dirt exemption was brought in is, old people kept any money they had for their funerals etc , under matteresses and other hiding places in their homes. what happened was a lot of homes were burgled even in daylight when local gurriers got some info regarding the personal details of some people . this happened mainly in isolated areas of the country but not exclusivly. at times there were couples calling to houses with all sort of alibis , esb/county council/eircom etc to check things out,and when they gained entrance the money disappeared , and briefly that is how it came about to encourage old people with a few quid saved to bank it.


----------



## potnoodler

Very strange measure to take in order to reduce burgaries , sure it was a way to keep the silver voters happy , our government s don't like to encourage savings


----------



## moonman

there was a lot of violence went with the buglaries. and at that time the governments did encourage people to save , hence the popularity of the gov saving schemes. they introduced 2 or 3 new plans at the time through the post office system . when i was in my twenties which was many many years ago there was only one post office scheme , it was called saving certificates. if you can look back at old papers on line you can see for yourself.


----------



## roker

Note to Belview: That from 65 to 70 we are not up to the €36,000 taxable limit we have the household benefit package which is slowly being wittled away, but we still are not entitled to a Medical Card, (only a GP card) We pay for drugs approx €100 a month (up to €136) and hospital stays etc. What little savings we have, is not worth claiming the DIRT


----------

