# INDEPENDENT financial advice



## Hubert (22 Jan 2017)

hi

Has anyone any recommendations for a good independent financial advisor.

I would like to get some decent advice on my pension - I manage it myself - just to make sure I'm not doing anything too wrong and to learn what I could be doing better.

Thanks


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## Conan (22 Jan 2017)

If you "manage it" yourself, then you presumably have an independent pensioner trustee? Can they not help? Is the advice your looking for related to investment strategy or compliance/ regulation?


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2017)

Well advice doesn't come more independant than posting up the details on here.  Some of the posters on here are in that area of expertise so if you like their reply you can make contact with them.


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## Hubert (23 Jan 2017)

OK. Self employed, early 40s. Decent pension amount. Taking a 20+ year view of life.

Pension mainly in cash at present. Did well last few years through index funds, but that was easy. Now not sure where to go next. Plan for 2017, is to leave the lump sum in cash earning next to nothing, invest the 2017 contributions in a European ETF and wait for the market correction/crash and go back in to a US ETF and some quality stocks at hopefully a more realistic value than today. A contradiction I know.

Have trustee costs down to minimum and avoid trading too much to mind fees. 

Bad experience of 'wealth management' advice in the past so am reluctant to pay someone to advise me on how to lose money while they get their fees regardless.

Any views appreciated.


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## Steven Barrett (23 Jan 2017)

Stick it in a global index fund for the next 20 years and forget about it. 

You may get lucky timing the market once or twice but overall you will miss out on growth and lose money. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Steven Barrett (23 Jan 2017)

Conan said:


> If you "manage it" yourself, then you presumably have an independent pensioner trustee? Can they not help? Is the advice your looking for related to investment strategy or compliance/ regulation?



If he's self employed, he will be in a self directed pension and won't need a pensioneer trustee. Also, a PT doesn't give investment advice, they just make sure you aren't up to no good. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## MrEarl (24 Jan 2017)

SBarrett said:


> Stick it in a global index fund for the next 20 years and forget about it. ....



Ah, but where's all the fun and excitment in that Steven ?

... at least encourage the original poster to split the money into a few investments, rather than put it all into one fund 

The original poster is early 40s with excess 20-years to retirement, so there's plenty of time to smooth out some losses and yet benefit from potential upsides, so at least bring a little excitment into the equation will you ?  

Personally, I'd be slow to go all into a global index fund btw, think it's too conservative for someone in their early 40s thinking 20-years ahead to invest everything in that and particularly, if they are expected to keep earning so probably able to make further ongoing contributions etc.  Lets have a bit of exposure to long term alternative investments - be it hedge funds, wind power, national infrastructure  etc.


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## Sarenco (24 Jan 2017)

Personally, I think it's pretty aggressive for somebody in their 40s to have 100% of their assets invested in equities - however geographically diversified the portfolio.

The largest stock market on the planet (the US) took 25 years to fully recover after the 1929 crash and the second largest stock market on the planet (Japan) has yet to surpass the heights reached in 1989. More to the point, all developed markets have had 30-year periods in the past where domestic bonds beat domestic stocks.

I certainly don't think it's a good idea to try and time the stock market but there is a happy medium for most folk...

And that doesn't involve investing in hedge funds!


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## Leper (24 Jan 2017)

I must say that I am glued to this thread. I'm in my sixties and about to retire.  I have used independent financial advisors over time and all I can say that if I did it my way, by now I would be financially a lot better off. But, I trusted these bods who took their commission no matter what the losses and later came up with every excuse to justify their tepid efforts. I should add here that one financial firm made a fairly good profit for me. , The whole effort was pretty worrying.  I didn't know if I was being conned or just used to make some dough for others.

In another thread of this forum I praised a guy with whom I used to work (a junior public servant who was a terrific investor/gambler and walked the talk) who used  a stockbroking firm every Monday/Tuesday and cash in on Thursday. He used to bet on GAA matches too with the local bookie (as part of his investment club) and at the end of each year showed a terrific profit (25%) for those who trusted him with £100.00 per week each. It was fun too. We were making money.

I wish I could advise Hubert on what independent financial person to use.  But, once bitten, twice shy . . .


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## Steven Barrett (24 Jan 2017)

MrEarl said:


> Ah, but where's all the fun and excitment in that Steven ?
> 
> ... at least encourage the original poster to split the money into a few investments, rather than put it all into one fund
> 
> ...



I know, it is boring advice. Stick in a fund that captures each country's market capitalisation and capture the power of the markets and at a lower cost. Absolutely no fun in that! 

But then, I got a letter yesterday from the company that runs a Polish property investment I went into in 2008. They said that my investment is worth 37.5% of what I put in. That was an exciting investment...


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Steven Barrett (24 Jan 2017)

Leper

Unfortunately, there are a lot of advisors out there that while you are telling them what you are looking for, they are calculating the commission they can get by sticking you in a high charge product that pays out large commissions. They put you in the fund of the day with little justification except the rep from that insurance company bought them lunch earlier in the day (disclaimer: they buy me lunch too!).

There are however, a lot of advisors who have changed their business model to one focusing on a long term relationship with clients. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## MrEarl (24 Jan 2017)

SBarrett said:


> ....But then, I got a letter yesterday from the company that runs a Polish property investment I went into in 2008. They said that my investment is worth 37.5% of what I put in. That was an exciting investment...



While I know I'm taking this thread even more off topic, I think we've all learned a few important lessons when it comes to investing in the old property syndicates... heavily geared, absolute exit dates, promoters creaming in the fees without performing etc. etc.  Most of these investments were made during the boom years, where we were all too busy taking over the world to stop and ask why a particular deal was a "no brainer" or whatever.  Important lessons learnt, but not reason to ignore investing in different asset classes to reduce the overall portfolio risk


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## Steven Barrett (24 Jan 2017)

Tell me about it. The first syndicate they ran returned 150%!! The one I was in closed Paddy's weekend in 2008, when the financial markets collapsed. Bad timing. 

Wouldn't go anywhere near them now and don't advise on them either, my PII doesn't cover me against them. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## MrEarl (24 Jan 2017)

Anyway,

I hope that you appreciate that I was referring to more appropriate methods of long term investment in other assets classes, rather than the "wonderful" highly geared SPVs that popped up two a penny during the naughties, offering all sorts of wonderful opportunities to invest in locations we couldn't find on a map with "guaranteed" rents for fixed terms etc.

Sensible diversification across a number of asset classes is still a better idea than putting all your eggs in one basket for a long term investor, as I see it - regardless of whether they are investing it all in a cash based savings account, or all invested in a global index fund


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## Hubert (25 Jan 2017)

Thanks for this. The GAA man sounds like a good bet! He's hardly set up to do this full time is he?!

On the polish property fund, I was in a similar UK zone where we got back 40% when the stockbroker selling the thing had taken 15% in all sorts of fees. I just think the industry is more out for itself than to provide good advice and when the likes of me go looking for a steer you are just there to be milked. 

As a trial last year I met 3 advisers, 2 I wouldn't let down to shop to buy a carton of eggs. They each did their profile/risk analysis which was top level at best. Then all they wanted to do was flog me product which when I researched it was heavily loaded with fees, mixed performance. They Lost interest when I wasn't too keen on opening up the purse strings easily. Maybe it's an education thing but they all were QFAs but then I suppose it's like accountants, doctors.... there's good and bad.

I'm coming to a few conclusions the more I read.

I'm going to keep the fund in 4 areas not equally proportioned - cash/quality stocks/indexing/sex and violence to keep me from ruining the rest of it. I'm not going to give them equal weighting. I'm not going near property in the fund as I'm exposed to that outside the pension.

On timing the market, everything I read tells me this is a bull market in the US so I'm going to stay in cash for the next 12 months and see what happens on that front. If it pulls back I'll average in a decent amount over 3 years and then keep going with regular contributions.  If it stays elevated I'll average in but with smaller amounts over a much longer time period.

I'm thinking to build with 4-5 core low cost ETFs - S&P, Euro, Emerging, Hi Div and one area yet to be selected. But weightings wont be equal. I think emerging are cheaper for a reason. On when to buy, US plan is as above, Euro will start shortly dripping in but will see how politics go this year, emerging will start dripping in and hi div is a longer term plan so will drip in slowly.

I can't see value in bonds given the entire QE issue so that's out of the plan for the moment. So cash will be held in cash, the interest is feck all but if rates tick up at all and the greedy banks pass something on that could help. I've been reading about inflation linked bonds but I need to understand them more before I would consider but again it's down the line. I'm going to hold a lot in cash for the next year or two in case there is fall back and I can use some of the cash to increase exposure.

On quality stocks, I'll pick a few up that I understand as the year goes on and put them away for long term. I bought one yesterday which for no reason dropped back a bit in the last 6 months. Mr market and all that. I'm also going to buy one or two long established U.K.  investment trusts.

The above are all long term hold stuff, just keep an eye on it.

And on the sex and violence, that's really where I'm going to buy what I think are undervalued assets of any kind once they are liquid, my only rule is going to be spreading the bets so if one/two blows up we don't have a problem. And if we do then I only have myself to blame! I'm staying out of hedge funds, private equity funds, commodities and gold. 

After that the plan is to keep going with the contributions and minimise the costs. What do ye think?


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## dub_nerd (25 Jan 2017)

Sounds like concentration and timing the market. Looks good to me. The diversificationist non-timerists on here may beg to differ.


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## Sarenco (25 Jan 2017)

Market timing?  Check.

Dollar cost averaging?  Check.

Stock picking?  Check.

Dividend investing?  Check.

Ticks all the right boxes for me alright .


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## MrEarl (26 Jan 2017)

Hubert said:


> ....
> 
> I'm going to keep the fund in 4 areas not equally proportioned - cash/quality stocks/indexing/*sex and violence* to keep me from ruining the rest of it. I'm not going to give them equal weighting. I'm not going near property in the fund as I'm exposed to that outside the pension.
> 
> ...



I'd like to hear more about the proposed investment into sex and violence


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## Johnsoner (29 Jan 2017)

Hubert said:


> hi
> 
> Has anyone any recommendations for a good independent financial advisor.
> 
> ...



If you are actually looking for independent financial advice then  it is best to go to someone who is actually independent and doesn't produce their own products. 

See below list from the Pensions Authority website. All of the larger providers are incentivised to advise you to buy their own products as they are making a taking a fee on the product as well as the advice. It's best to go for one of the more reputable smaller advisors who do not have a vested interest. BCWM (Bastow Charleton) and Independent Trustees are your best bets from this list as they are only taking a fee on the advice and not the product. They will also likely give you a fixed fee.

Johnsoner

_*Ark Life Assurance Ireland Ltd. 
Aviva Life & Pensions Ireland Limited.
BCWM plc
Custom House Capital Ltd. (In Liquidation)
Davy
Friends First Life Assurance Co. Ltd.
Goodbody Stockbrokers
Independent Trustee Company Limited
Irish Life Assurance plc
Merrion Stockbrokers Ltd
Newcourt Retirement Fund Managers Limited
New Ireland Assurance Co. plc/Bank of Ireland Life
Standard Life Assurance Limited
Zurich Life Assurance plc.*_


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## Steven Barrett (30 Jan 2017)

All of those are product producers in their own right. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Hubert (31 Jan 2017)

Have spent the last week getting the right ticker symbols for the ETFs set up on my online account and finalising selection - starting to purchase tomorrow and do it monthly from here on out. 

Kept it pretty simple and went with 4 Blackrock ishares ETFs from their core range to average in over the next 3 years at varying rates/allocations. Once I get these to a size will look at widening it out.

Have bought two stocks also for the long term, boring industrials and looking at UK investment trusts but no rush.

Apart from that will go slow and steady.


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## Sarenco (31 Jan 2017)

Would you like us to give our 2 cents on your proposed allocation or are you happy with your choices? 

The reason I ask is that you kicked off this thread by asking if anybody could recommend a good independent financial advisor so I assume you thought you would benefit from some advice on some aspect of your retirement investment strategy.


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## Hubert (31 Jan 2017)

Absolutely, if you can. Would appreciate it. I'm taking 3 years to drip in my existing funds excluding new contributions. Reason I'm taking 3 years is I'm nervy about markets and particularly US being overvalued just based on what I read.

 In terms of allocation, I'm aiming initially at European, US (will be back ended to see what happens next 6-12 months), Emerging (small proportion), and an all market fund for any excess cash earmarked for ETFS. UK Investment trusts will be separate and will be one or two or the large longstanding ones. 

Appreciate any views.


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## Sarenco (1 Feb 2017)

Hi Hubert

I believe that markets are good, if imperfect, at efficiently reflecting all available information in the price of publicly traded securities.  As such, I don't believe there is any point in trying to time markets or trying to pick winning stocks, sectors or regions.

We can't really have a sensible discussion on portfolio construction if you don't agree with those fundamentals.

Regardless, I obviously wish you well with your investing strategy.


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## Hubert (1 Feb 2017)

Thanks Sarenco. I probably agree with you in the context of me (or anyone) investing for a long time period, in my case 20 years plus. 

But does the market get in wrong on specifics, does it overshoot/undershoot well I think that's another debate entirely!!

OK to add more detail, here is my logic. I have 90% of my fund now in cash. It's did very well from 2010-2015 as a result of general market movement and me working hard on the contributions. Now I have to go back into equities and I am nervy that the US to my mind looks set for a correction. It's my simple guess and I'll probably be proven wrong. 

So I don't want to go in too quick and I want to keep cash in reserve so I can buy the turndown. I'm not trying to time the market in my mind, I'm just looking at a 9 year bull market that has to run out of steam at some point. In the meantime, I'm setting my allocation target to be hit at the end of month 36. 

I plan to allocate 80% of my funds cash to let's call it my core long term fund. The balance is for quality stock picking or my sex and violence. 

The 80% will be invested in equal portions over the 3 years so I will be in substantial cash still for a while.

So my target allocation at month 36 for my core long term fund is:

US S&P 35% - but monthly contributions will start very low and we'll see what happens;
Euro 35% - will allocate more on a monthly basis initially and see what happens;
Emerging markets 10% - will allocate evenly;
UK Investment Trusts 10% - will allocate evenly to 2/3 trusts (1 FTSE focused) with decent dividend/track record/costs;
All market 10% - will allocate excess cash evenly.

Worst that can happen, I average in too slow and miss US growth, best I get some benefit from the correction (but that's just my own opinion). 

What I'll do at end year 3 (aged 44) is then allocate monthly contributions evenly across these. I'll then fill it out with other asset classes over time - will see how bonds are etc.

I'm trying to get to a stage by 44 that I have a solid well diversified cost effective equity fund that will be good to remain in place for 20 years. 

My 20% will be actively managed by myself and we'll see how this goes. As I said I have a few rules (its simple warren buffet stuff) and if I mess it up only myself to blame. 

That's my thinking, comments welcome on any of it.


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## Fella (1 Feb 2017)

Just be careful of the tax treatment of that ETF's is all I'd say. This site was a great help to me understanding the tax treatment of ETF's , I had originally invested in these but moved all money into investment trusts with thanks mostly to Sarenco for guiding me into these. 
It can be hard to lump all your money in in one go and although the right thing is time in market not timing market for peace of mind I don't think the euro cost averaging is that bad. A lot of the trusts i bought myself where at terrible Sterling prices had I averaged in i may have done better Im not sure , I still buy regularly which I believe to be the most important thing, I've seen people invest in things and It goes pear shaped soon after and they pull out or never put more in , so on that note I'd never be too hard on someone who wanted to Euro cost average .


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## Sarenco (1 Feb 2017)

Fella said:


> Just be careful of the tax treatment of that ETF's is all I'd say



Just to be clear, Hubert is talking about a self-directed pension fund so the tax considerations are totally different to those that would apply to a taxable investment portfolio.


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## Fella (1 Feb 2017)

Ok ignore what i wrote! Cheers Sarenco for clearing that up


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## Hubert (19 Mar 2017)

Just thought I'd give an update on this.

Have everything set up with an online broker account and have started to purchase in line with my plan. 

Am focused on building the foundations over the next 2-3 years so with that in mind and with my objectives above am:

1. Buying ishares Euro ETF monthly - this will be the main investment in cash terms over 2017;

2. Buying smaller amounts of a Japanese ETF and an Emerging Markets ETF to set allocations regardless of price;

3. Am not buying UK or US for the time being and will see how the next 12 months go. Am researching UK investment trusts and will invest later in 2017 through 2018. On the US have an S&P ETF chosen along with a Russell 2000 ETF but waiting out the next 6-12 months - fools errand but I'm going to try and time it;

4. Have bought 5  high dividend boring European stocks -key sectors - pharmaceutical, healthcare, industrial, automotive, business services - all medium to large cap - I have followed them for a while;

5. Am being disciplined with number trades to manage costs and keeping everything recorded to track it;

6. I've noticed my trustee has given up trying to push me onto related service providers who wanted to charge fees etc BUT i did undertake a financial review with someone recommended from this site and the advisor said what i was doing was 85% OK - questioned my long allocation period and aversion to managed funds but that was it.

In terms of end year 3 allocation, plan is to allocate what I have as at 1/1/2017 (it's a cash lump sum) as follows:

Europe - 30% (front ended - next 17 months)
US - 30% (more back ended)
My chosen high div shares - 20% (as opportunities arise)
Japan and EM - 7.5% (even allocation)
UK investment trusts - 12.5% (even allocation)

What I put in over the next 3 years, I'm going to look at:

A Private equity fund or fund of funds - just need to do more work on it but reading lots of interesting research on it from a long term 10 year+ investment horizon.

Now my question to readers is how do I manage the FX exposure - as much of what I'm doing will be USD, some STG and the balance Euro.

Appreciate any views on this.

Thanks


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