# local housing need question for Planning Permission



## Killter

Hi folks, 

Myself and the missus are hoping to purchase an acre site for owner occuppier selfbuild. The area is Oughterard in Galway. However, the site is designated : 

*"The vendor and the auctioneers believe that an application for planning permission by an applicant who has local housing need, will be successful on this site".


*My question if anyone can advise is - Does 7.5 years renting in Galway suffice as having a  local housing need? We are not from the area, or even Galway. Morgage has been approved.

Can anyone suggest how I could proceede? _Any suggests _would be really helpfull to us-new to the house building/buying scene.

Thank you

Killter


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## niceoneted

Why not make an appointment with the planning officer and he/she will soon tell you. Rather than go through the buying process and discovering later whether you can or cannot.Might save alot of stress and time. 
Good luck with it.


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## lockster

Hi killter
My wife and I purchased a site in Apr 07 in kildare and have been granted permission on the basis of local need. While planning departments in different counties will have different policies I think the local need categories are generally consistent.

Presumably this site is in a rural area, outside the boundary of the townland of oughterard. I'm unfamiliar with the guidelinesin galway but in kildare there were 5 specific circumstances in which you could comply with the category of local need. on the application we had to state which of the 5 we complied with and provide a specific list of documentary evidence to prove we complied.

I've looked up the Galway county development plan and it is similar to the Kildare plan - i've copied the text below (bottom of page) from page 52 of the document available at [broken link removed]

My take on it would be that would would "NOT" comply with the category of local need as you did not grow up in the area and you have n significant ties to the area -renting in the area would probably not be sufficient. However you could be able to prove that you comply with category 3-that you are functionally dependent on the rural area if you work in the area you wish to build in

However dont just take the text below as gospel, there arealways ways and means. DO NOT speak to a local planner- they will most definitely tell you you do not comply - dont give the planners any more information than you need to- they are not there to help you but to ensure that housing development is sustainable and one-off housing is not sustainable so they look for reasons not to grant permission.

You should speak to a local architect with good local knowledge of the planning system - they should play devils advocate and help you determine whether to purchase or not. If you do proceed also make sure you get whatever local political help you can- you need politicians on your side and fighting your corner (and that desnt mean just writinga letter to support your application which some of them do- that wont help at all.

If I was in your position I would not proceed but you may have personal circumstances (health or otherwie) that may support a case for local need.

Also ask yourself the following question - can you afford "Not" to get planning - you may get less for the site if you try to sell it after a failed application.

I know the above is long winded bu I ope it hes and good luck with the decision (we took 3 attempts before we finally got the grant- I dont envy you)

Policy 90
In determining whether an application within the Galway
Transportation and Planning Study (GTPS) area is intended to
meet a genuine rural generated housing need, the provisions of
the​​​​_“Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities,
2005” _(Appendix 6) shall be considered. The following factors
will also be considered on the documentary evidence presented
on a case by case basis.
(a) Those applicants with links to the area through long standing
existing close family ties seeking to develop their first home on
existing family farm holdings.
or
(b) Those applicants who have no family lands but who wish to
build their first home within the community in which they have
long standing links and where they have spent a substantial,
continuous part of their lives (i.e. have grown up in the area,
schooled in the area and have existing close family connections
in the area e.g. son or daughter of longstanding residents of the
area). Having established a substantiated rural housing need,
such persons making an application on a site within an 8km
radius of their original family home will be considered
favourably, subject to normal development control criteria and
provided the site is not closer to Galway city than the original
family home or encroaches within the urban fringe of the towns
of Gort, Loughrea, Athenry or Tuam.
or
(c) Those applicants who are functionally dependant on a part time
or full time basis on the immediate rural area in which they are
seeking to develop. Employment in neighbouring towns or
villages will not in itself qualify an applicant as having a rural
generated housing need.
or
(d) Those applicants who lived for substantial periods of their lives
in the rural area, then moved abroad and who now wish to
return and build their first house, in this local area, to reside
near other family members. Special consideration will be given
to the immediate family of emigrants returning to this local
area.
or
(e) Special consideration shall be given to cases of exceptional
health circumstances – supported by relevant documentation
from a registered medical practitioner and a disability
organisation proving that a person requires to live in a
particular environment or close to family support, or requires a
family member to live in close proximity to that person. In that
instance a family member shall be defined as the brother, sister,
son, daughter, niece, nephew or grandchild of the person with​
such exceptional health circumstances.


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## lockster

One other think Killter - check with your mortgage approval that the bnk is aware it is for the purchase of a site without planning permission- my understanding is that banks no longer do this.

My bank approved our mortgage but then asked for a planning cert before handing over the dosh (I had told them openly I was purchasing without PP) - i then had a big battle with them and threatened legal action before they came through but it was a major battle wth them - just be careful in the current climate


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## Complainer

Killter said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Myself and the missus are hoping to purchase an acre site for owner occuppier selfbuild. The area is Oughterard in Galway. However, the site is designated :
> 
> *"The vendor and the auctioneers believe that an application for planning permission by an applicant who has local housing need, will be successful on this site".
> *


Are you sure that the vendor's belief is justified?


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## MOB

The site in question will surely be sold subject to planning permission being granted.  That is the normal way these things are done.


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## Killter

Yes, I rang to reconfirm that the site is being sold subject to planning permission.
 I have taken the advice of the above posters and have hopefully found a good local engineer. A few people have recommended the same lad to me. However, the chances look alot slimmer of getting planning after a few phone calls today. Will keep trying though.

Let the big push begin!

Thanks for your advice and replies to this thread.

Grateful, 

Killter


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## Kate10

Hi Kilter,
My husband and I wanted to build at one point.  I am a solicitor living in Galway and I researched it very extensively at the time.
I started my practice in the area in which I wanted to live, and at the time of application I employed 5 people.  I also had contracts with local businesses.  I fulfilled the requirements of local housing need almost word for word.
HOWEVER!  It was a waste of time.  Apparentely, Galway Co Co have an unofficial policy, regardless of what is written in the development plan.  Basically, they will grant permission to the first two children of a farming family, that's it.
We had exploratory meetings with the co co at which we presented our housing need application.  I got a phone call less than an hour later.  They told me that if we applied formally they would turn us down, but not to worry because An Bord Pleanala would give us the permission.  I kid you not!!  We couldn't afford to pay for the site and take the risk, and the vendor was not willing to give us enough time to go through ABP.
I would not advise you to go down this road, unless you have an outstanding case.

Good luck.

Kate.


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## slane85

One word of advice, the only word that's got 94% of people through the local needs quagmire..............



Lie.


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## suzanneo1974

slane85 said:


> One word of advice, the only word that's got 94% of people through the local needs quagmire..............
> 
> 
> 
> Lie.



- some hints pls??!!


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## Tank

Killter, I would be interested to know if you got any further on this... I wont repeat what has been stated up above, but would note that it is very very difficult to get planning in certain areas in the country even with roots in the locality. If you dont have that link, it is highly unlikely. Working locally does not always cut it for the planners. I am currently fighting for a couple that have lived in an area for 20 years, moved to Dublin for a few and now want to settle back in to where their routes lay. After 3 applications and an An Bord appeal, they still did not get it. Unbelieveable. We are now heading down other routes. Two words of advice. Firstly, get in contact with as many local councellors as you can. If you get enough backing you can get this through in the council. Secondly, check the area plan for the area that you want to build in. In some areas they stipulate specifically what and how many dwellings they will permit in a time period. If that nmber is exceeded, you are already fighting a losing battle.


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## Balfour

Killter said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Myself and the missus are hoping to purchase an acre site for owner occuppier selfbuild. The area is Oughterard in Galway. However, the site is designated :
> 
> *"The vendor and the auctioneers believe that an application for planning permission by an applicant who has local housing need, will be successful on this site".*
> 
> 
> My question if anyone can advise is - Does 7.5 years renting in Galway suffice as having a  local housing need? We are not from the area, or even Galway. Morgage has been approved.
> 
> Can anyone suggest how I could proceede? _Any suggests _would be really helpfull to us-new to the house building/buying scene.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Killter




Hi,

My wife and I are in a similar situation to the above post (county is also Galway) and I was wondering has anybody any further update on a way around the “local need” requirement.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Leo

Balfour said:


> ...I was wondering has anybody any further update on a way around the “local need” requirement.



There might be some hope for you, depending on which LA you're dealing with and whether they've been sufficiently challenged yet.


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## Balfour

Leo said:


> There might be some hope for you, depending on which LA you're dealing with and whether they've been sufficiently challenged yet.


Thanks Leo.


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## Baby boomer

Leo said:


> There might be some hope for you, depending on which LA you're dealing with and whether they've been sufficiently challenged yet.


That Examiner article is from 2017.    Do you know if there's been any developments since.  The "locals only" rule seems as entrenched as ever.


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## Leo

Baby boomer said:


> That Examiner article is from 2017.    Do you know if there's been any developments since.  The "locals only" rule seems as entrenched as ever.



I haven't heard much to be honest, sounds like it might require a challenge to more LAs before they'll move on it.


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## Balfour

All

To be honest, there is a very little chance of getting planning permission if you are not from the area.

I got in contact with a few architects and a local TD..... NO CHANCE I WAS TOLD.

The planning laws in Ireland is a disgrace, I have a young family, want to move to the country from the city, build a new house, sell my house to another family and I am not allowed, its a disgrace to be honest. Then we are told there is a housing shortage, disgrace.......

Regards


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## kceire

No recent changes.
People think that some EU law will help them in this case but it wont.

The LA's have specific areas where no new housing is allowed, Local Needs is an exception to this to allow the house.
If you remove the Local Needs criteria then nothing gets built for anyone.


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## NoRegretsCoyote

It would be great if local authorities CPO'd agricultural land, provided services and parcelled it into sites. This is common in many countries.

Lots of people want self build but it's very hard in an urban area and increasingly difficult in rural.

Developers unfortunately the only game in town.


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## daithi28

Balfour said:


> The planning laws in Ireland is a disgrace, I have a young family, want to move to the country from the city, build a new house, sell my house to another family and I am not allowed, its a disgrace to be honest. Then we are told there is a housing shortage, disgrace.......



You're right,  it is an absolute disgrace that folks from urban areas shouldn't be able to up-sticks and build in the rural area. We should ALL be able to do that. 

Of course, I'd need the rural roads upgraded so my luxury SUV doesn't get damaged by rutted roads, perhaps some footpaths for those idyllic country walks and yes, some bright streetlighting would be nice for the wintertime. I also want to be in the country but close to the city so I can commute to work and do all my shopping in the city and not those poorly stocked country shops. And while I want my large one-off house, I don't want too many other people around me to spoil my view and tranquility, so once I get there I'll be objecting to anybody else building anywhere near me. And I don't want the place smelling of slurry by those pesky farmers nor do I want their tractors clogging up the roads during harvesting.

I've been told by the Planners that if I want to move to the country I could buy an existing house that meets my needs or buy a house and adapt it to meet my needs and local needs don't apply, but if I'm moving there, I don't want to re-use existing rural housing stock. I want a NEW house, with garden uplighting, and a big tarmac driveway, a big garage for my ride-on mower and the quad I'm gonna buy for my kid.  I've seen some nice big boundary walls with electric gates at another house. They'd be great too, so I'm not disturbed by locals while I'm sipping my 4.9% German IPA on my decking.


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