# Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any ideas



## Miffed (14 May 2007)

Hi,

Don't know if anyone can help me - I loaned €1100 to my brother's girlfriend for a deposit on her apartment, which she said she would pay back at a rate of €250 every three months.  She hasn't paid anything to date, as she wasn't due to pay the first installment until June.  She has just recently split with my brother - and told me that I can whistle for the loan....  using these words!

Even though my brother has said he will try to come up with the money so that I won't be out of pocket, it irritates me to think she can just get away with this.  Stupidly, I didn't get anything on paper, but do have a record of the money leaving my account into my brothers, and he has evidence of the draft which he obtained to give to the owners of her apartment.  Do I have a leg to stand on, and if so, what do I do?


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## monkeyboy (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Plenty to stand on with a good paper trail too. Ring her up and be firm otherwise she will be sent a solicitors letter seeking the full repayment + the cost of the solicitor.


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## gotsomenow (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

From experience I think the only thing you can do is 'put the frighteners' on her, i.e. threaten her will a solicitors letter.  Instead of phoning her, I would send her a very formal letter.  Alternatively you could send her a solictors letter which may set you back a couple of hundred, but still that may not guarantee you get your money back.  

If it were Judge Judy she would probably award it back to you, but I doubt much could be done here without some form of agreement on paper.

G


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## monkeyboy (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



gotsomenow said:


> From experience I think the only thing you can do is 'put the frighteners' on her, i.e. threaten her will a solicitors letter.  Instead of phoning her, I would send her a very formal letter.  Alternatively you could send her a solictors letter which may set you back a couple of hundred, but still that may not guarantee you get your money back.
> 
> If it were Judge Judy she would probably award it back to you, but I doubt much could be done here without some form of agreement on paper.
> 
> G



If push came to shove and she was brought to court she would have to outright lie and say that the draft was given as a gift and not a loan. At this point she would also know if she does not lie succesfully she would end up with the legal costs also. She could be taken to small claims court either with no legal fees. An agreement on papaer is not needed and there is proof that the money changed hands, only thing tricky is prooving that it was agreed to be paid back and not a gift.

Any way of proving this OP?


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## brian.mobile (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Fight Fire With Fire.

Get a picture of her, print out what happened undernerath it along with her details (and your own contact details), send her a copy and threaten hand it out in and around the area that she works, where she drinks, or lives.

You wont be long whistling buddy.

BM


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## HotdogsFolks (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



brian.mobile said:


> Fight Fire With Fire.
> 
> Get a picture of her, print out what happened undernerath it along with her details (and your own contact details), send her a copy and threaten hand it out in and around the area that she works, where she drinks, or lives.
> 
> ...


 
Haha... evil, but I like it.


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## Miffed (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



brian.mobile said:


> Fight Fire With Fire.
> 
> Get a picture of her, print out what happened undernerath it along with her details (and your own contact details), send her a copy and threaten hand it out in and around the area that she works, where she drinks, or lives.
> 
> ...


 
Really like this one - gave me a giggle to cheer me up.  Thanks for all the rest of the replies.  Will try the letter and see if that works.


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## bonzos (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Has she a car ? A bag of sugar into the fuel tank would sort her out.When dealing with people who owe money rules go out the window.


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## oldtimer (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Putting a bag of sugar into the fuel tank will not get your money back. In fact you would be in deeper trouble. Circulating a photo would probably have similar result. Whatever you do should be within the law. Perhaps a solicitors opinion and/or letter is your best option but at the end of the day you have no agreement in writing so don't hold your breath.


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## Swallows (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

You say you loaned money to a "friend", is she still your friend even though she has split up with your brother, and was he in any way responsible for the breakup? If she wasn't due to pay until June then she hasn't broken any agreement. She may be just annoyed at the moment and I would wait and see what happens in June before you start sending letters as that will just make the situation worse. Let things cool down and you can always pay her a visit when the situation is calmer.


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## brian.mobile (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



bonzos said:


> Has she a car ? A bag of sugar into the fuel tank would sort her out.When dealing with people who owe money rules go out the window.


 
Good God!

BM


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## CCOVICH (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Cop on folks-don't suggest idiotic/illegal solutions or the thread will be locked.


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## z108 (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NHjSv2BOM



You may find some pointers here  


But seriously theres a paper trail which is in your favor . Take it step by patient step. She may be thinking you wont bother paying a solicitor and be banking on that fact. All you need is a decent solicitor and a hard  hitting letter threatening action and she will probably cave in.
I've seen the difference between a solicitor who gets things done and one who talks a lot but gets no results.




brian.mobile said:


> Fight Fire With Fire.
> 
> Get a picture of her, print out what happened undernerath it along with her details (and your own contact details), send her a copy and threaten hand it out in and around the area that she works, where she drinks, or lives.
> 
> ...




Thats a great idea but can it be seen as defamation if the debt cant be proven ? (I believe it can be proven in this case due to the paper trail)

But wait until the agreed repayment date is passed then take legal action if she is not cooperating by then.


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## levelpar (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Hi Miffed,  I dont think you have ,as you say, a leg to stand on but you have learned a valuable lesson.  You have nothing in writing to connect the brother's girlfriend with the money .I agree with oldtimer who advises you not to walk into deeper trouble. Sorry I cant offer more


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## z108 (14 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



levelpar said:


> Hi Miffed,  I dont think you have ,as you say, a leg to stand on but you have learned a valuable lesson.  You have nothing in writing to connect the brother's girlfriend with the money .I agree with oldtimer who advises you not to walk into deeper trouble. Sorry I cant offer more



There appears to be proof the brother gave her the money. At the very least the brother could claim it back.


At the very least be thankful she didnt sting you for more!


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## nelly (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

neither a borrower nor a lender be - case in point. 
my mother told me long ago, those types of loans should be treated as gifts, if it gets paid back in full then its a bonus. 

Send a solicitors letter but then put it down to a lesson learned. 

Personally ok she may be woman scorned so very cross and may pay back when she calms down or else she may be another one of those people who says its tough on you. you took a chance and lucked out.


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## Bronte (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Whatever you do don't do anything illegal.  Write her a letter, send it by registered post telling her that if she doesn't pay you back you will go the legal route.  Before you do this I would recommend telephoning her and asking her for the money and recording the conversation.  Don't get heated just try to record her acknowledging that it was a loan from you to her and that she is refusing to pay you back.  I assume this kind of proof is allowed in Ireland but not sure.  If it's not legal to record phone conversations perhaps you could have a third party as witness to the phone conversation.  Alternatively meet her with a third party and ask her for the money back.  There is a small claims court procedure in Ireland now if you don't want to go to the expense of hiring a solicitor. You could look it up on the web to see if it covers this situation.  

Another point is, is the loan from you to your brother to her.   Then it's your brother that owes you the money and she owes the money to him.  If you go the legal route both you and your brother may have to be claiming together against her to cover all angles.  

Final option is to chalk it up to experience.


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## barryo (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Dont get personal. Get a good solicitors letter to her, have it mention if successfull her credit history will be informed. Small claims court is designed for such things.

See it through - then sing not whistle..


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## TDON (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

It's an expensive lesson, that like me, you've learnt the hard way. There is an old saying "Friends and money are easily parted". 

However, you do have a paper trail. She'd get nowhere saying it was a gift. Whilst it would be even dubious, that your brother would give her a _gift_ of this much money, why on earth would you?????????. 

The thing with the photo, whilst it's funny & might make you feel better, is slander.

Likewise, the thing with the car is criminal damage.

Wait until June and send her a letter by registerd post, detailing the transactions/paper trail plus the conversation with her. Then state that whilst you do not want to involve a solicitor, is she doesn't pay you she will leave you with no choice. Then you also have your evidence that you also tried to sort this amicably.

If you do end up getting nowhere, you can always include it on your tax return form for the year under losses and maybe get some relief for it and also tell the revenue that she states its a gift and therefore has to be taxed on it. But that's obviously if you get nowhere having exhuasted all avenues open to you.


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## therave (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

if she doesn't reply to your letters or calls then go and see her and try and bring an independent witness ,better still visit her at her parents place wehn you know she's there or at work where there will be independent witnesses.
also speak with a calm but loud voice so other know she owes you money.. she might be either embarassed into paying you or go the other way and close up and tell u to get lost..
alternatively contact her landlord and inform them that you require to take up residience in her apartment as you have paid for a months rent and have not yet occupied the apartment to the full value of your payment..
main thing though is not to fall out with your brother


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## patgar (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

it happened me before with a cousin..
send them a postcard to their parents home address as well as their own address stating the loan amount etc....it will really upset them as all their family will then know about the loan as everyone reads postcards when they arrive in the post


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## Vanilla (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Both previous suggestions are potential defamation of her character and actionable by her.


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## patgar (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

so what...

it worked for me...his father paid the loan


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## ClubMan (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



patgar said:


> so what...
> 
> it worked for me...his father paid the loan


Well they probably could have sued you for defamation so encouraging others to take a similar approach is hardly good advice? I can't believe some of the other hare brained suggestions in this thread which are totally off the wall and far from prudent recommendations...


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## KalEl (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

Take Vanilla's sound advice and ignore these ridiculous suggestions.
Personally I think your brother is at fault and should repay you the money and try and get it back himself...it's through him you know this person who may be punishing you for some grievance she has with him.
Alternatively, you could put it down to bad experience and learn from the mistake. You'll only let yourself down by creating scenes in public and increase your own stress levels.

By the way, welcome back Clubman...tanned and relaxed?


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## therave (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

i still say contact the landlord and look to stay in the aparment to get your money's worth..

suggestions are suggestions and this being an open form we are quiet entitled i feel to post them.. i have defamed nobody as far as i can see and if the op wants to take my suggestions on board then obviously they are free to do so but obvious;y with caution


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## CCOVICH (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



therave said:


> suggestions are suggestions and this being an open form we are quiet entitled i feel to post them.. i have defamed nobody as far as i can see and if the op wants to take my suggestions on board then obviously they are free to do so but obvious;y with caution


 
No-we have a policy that suggesting actions that are illegal (e.g. tax evasion, criminal damage etc.) will not be tolerated as this serves to undermine Askaboutmoney's reputation for quality advice and information.

There are plenty of other sites with an 'anything goes' policy.


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## therave (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

i did not suggest anything illegal


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## KalEl (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



therave said:


> i did not suggest anything illegal


 
Illegal/Defamatry/Foolish...whichever it is it serves no purpose, will only aggrevate the situation and adds nothing to the discussion on how the OP should proceed.


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## CCOVICH (15 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



therave said:


> i did not suggest anything illegal


 
I was making the point that not all suggestions would be allowed to stand.

Anyway, if anyone has useful, practical, sensible advice for the OP let's hear it.


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## CHARLIE27 (16 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

I'm sure the OP has some common sense to realise that a few of the comments made were only a joke!.  

I agree with some of the suggestions that were make ie. wait till June and see if she comes back to you! I also think that it's now difficult for your brother to get the money for you, even though I would see it as his responsibility! I think we all know that if you owe someone that amount of your hardly likely to forget, so if she doesn't make contact try ringing her first!  But you know what type of person she is, is she likely to pay you with gentle persuasion, or not pay then take legal action!

Good luck
C


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## vector (16 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



bonzos said:


> Has she a car ? A bag of sugar into the fuel tank would sort her out...



unless she drives a classic car you'll find that the cap has a lock on it
(also don't mess with peoples cars)


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## michaelm (16 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



nelly said:


> Send a solicitors letter but then put it down to a lesson learned.


Best advise above. 

 I would write her a letter first outlining that the loan was made in good faith and managing her expectations that you expect the loan to be repaid as originally agreed and if she reneges on her commitments you will reluctantly resort to a legal route to recoup your monies, then, if she doesn't comply, maybe get a solicitors letter sent, then write it and her off.  If your brother was the conduit for the loan then he should act as guarantor and step up with the cash, he could then chase the cash and it wouldn't be your problem.  Whatever happens I suppose it's a lesson learned.


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## sorchac (16 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*

What a nightmare.

What I would do, if you suspect she has 'potential', is to make contact with her again requesting (politely) the money.  Record this conversation (it's easy on the telephone - a small device that attaches to the receiver).  She will, more than likely, tell the truth (that she owes you the money) but still refuse to pay it.

Now you have evidence, and you can use that should you wish to take this any further (and/or circulate to her by email, Twink-style).

You should expect that she will pay up and stay within the law - you will be in deep trouble yourself otherwise.

Finally - don't ever do this again.  Generosity is lovely, but protect yourself with a bit of sense at the same time ;-)


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## RainyDay (16 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



sorchac said:


> What I would do, if you suspect she has 'potential', is to make contact with her again requesting (politely) the money.  Record this conversation (it's easy on the telephone - a small device that attaches to the receiver).  She will, more than likely, tell the truth (that she owes you the money) but still refuse to pay it.
> 
> Now you have evidence, and you can use that should you wish to take this any further (and/or circulate to her by email, Twink-style).


Recording of calls without notifying the caller beforehand is probably illegal, and any such evidence will not stand up in any court. That's why ever call-centre warns you 'your call may be recorded for training'.


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## Froggie (16 May 2007)

I had a similar situation a few years back. I went to my friends older brother and explained it to him. He paid back the money to save family pride.


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## sorchac (17 May 2007)

Recording calls is not illegal if you are in a situation where someone is lying or evading the law.


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## ClubMan (17 May 2007)

sorchac said:


> Recording calls is not illegal if you are in a situation where someone is lying or evading the law.


Can you quote an authoritative source on that - e.g. the relevant legislation allowing such eavesdropping?


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## z108 (17 May 2007)

You actually loaned the money to your brother because you gave the money to him so when it returns it should return to you through him.
And he gave it to her. Whether he gets it back or not is really his problem.


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## michaelm (17 May 2007)

AFAIK it is not illegal for one party to record a conversation unbeknown to the other.  What would be illegal is if a third party recorded a conversation in which they are not involved.  Perhaps someone here can point to relevant legislation making it illegal to record a conversation to which one is a part, or maybe an AAM legal eagle might clear this up.


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## tiger (17 May 2007)

If one party is recording a call, do they not have to notify the other party?  Is this not (partly) why all the banks etc. have a "your call may be recorded for training & quality purposes" message on their systems?


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## Joe Nonety (18 May 2007)

Surely you can get insider knowledge from your brother e.g. there may be a member of her family that she'd hate to find out about her reneged on loan.
Threaten to bring her to the small claims court as it only cost a fiver.


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## CCOVICH (19 May 2007)

Joe Nonety said:


> Threaten to bring her to the small claims court as it only cost a fiver.



Not an option-the [broken link removed].


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## monkeyboy (19 May 2007)

sorchac said:


> Recording calls is not illegal if you are in a situation where someone is lying or evading the law.



Thats a bit vague though, you are recording the call to prove the illegal activity, 

therefore before you record the call - you have no proof.

That means that you cant record a call, as you have no proof of an illegal activity...........

If you did have proof you would not need to record the call!

Chicken and the egg situation.


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## Joe Nonety (19 May 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> Not an option-the [broken link removed].


 
Bringing her to the small claims court isn't an option, *threatening* to bring her to the small claims court is.


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## nlgbbbblth (20 May 2007)

*Re: Loaned money to a friend but can't get it back - any idea's*



Vanilla said:


> Both previous suggestions are potential defamation of her character and actionable by her.



but it appears that the allegations are true. Hardly defamation then?

Is the onus not on her to prove otherwise?


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## z108 (20 May 2007)

I dont know about here but it seems a fairly common tactic on a consumer investigation show to call someone dodgy, record the conversation (without permission) and then put it on TV. And whats the relevant difference between a recording and a photograph published without permission in the media ?


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## CCOVICH (20 May 2007)

Joe Nonety said:


> Bringing her to the small claims court isn't an option, *threatening* to bring her to the small claims court is.



Well anyone who can use Google would find out you're bluffing fairly easily....


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## csirl (21 May 2007)

Recording telephone conversations between two people without permission of either is illegal. Tampering with Eircom phone lines, or those owned by other phone companies is illegal.

However, there is no law against recording your own phone calls using your own equipment. Easy to do via number of methods. You can buy a small device that attaches to your phone handset and plugs into a tape recorder. Another way is to put the call on speaker and simply record it with a dictaphone.


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## mullingar (22 May 2007)

csirl said:


> Recording telephone conversations between two people without permission of either is illegal. Tampering with Eircom phone lines, or those owned by other phone companies is illegal.
> 
> However, there is no law against recording your own phone calls using your own equipment. Easy to do via number of methods. You can buy a small device that attaches to your phone handset and plugs into a tape recorder. Another way is to put the call on speaker and simply record it with a dictaphone.


 

Man this thread is like Deja Vu!!! I had a similar problem and have been using this and its been excellent at storing all the conversations.
http://www.worldlink.ie/record_a_call_how_to.html

....Mullingar


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## Bronte (22 May 2007)

Mullingar - that's no good - it says at the bottom that you have to by law tell the other person you are recording them. 

Csirl - do you mean that a) it's illegal for a third party to record another persons phone conversation without telling them and b) that you are allowed to record your own phone conversations if you make the call, if this is the case are you just to record yourself or both parties?


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## mullingar (22 May 2007)

Aileen2 said:


> Mullingar - that's no good - it says at the bottom that you have to by law tell the other person you are recording them.
> 
> Csirl - do you mean that a) it's illegal for a third party to record another persons phone conversation without telling them and b) that you are allowed to record your own phone conversations if you make the call, if this is the case are you just to record yourself or both parties?


 
They legally have to include that disclaimer i'd imagine. I told the other person that I was going to record the conversation. Whether thats the same or not I dont know. I have recorded my conversations with this certain person and informed them only the once that I was going to record calls and they said they didnt give a sh1t. You only need permission once I think and now I have a series of files of my conversations with this person. It also helps remind me of what we spoke about as often you forget the small important things that your solicitor needs to know. 

...Mullingar


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## jeny (22 May 2007)

She broke the contract the moment she said she wont repay you. Its anticipatory breach and you can sue her from the moment she says that.

Contracts do not have to be on paper or signed to be binding. It was a completely legit contract and you will be able to get it back from her all the elements of a binding contract where present from your post.

Get to a solicitor now you can sue her immediately. 

j


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