# Need advice about shortfall on mortgage- debt collectors



## Sarah76 (28 Jun 2015)

I sold family home after a very stressful time under the MARP process. I was the only one engaging with the bank at the time. Although I work full time the mortgage was unsustainable the bank would not agree to extend the loan to meet repayments so sold  family home voluntary in December 2012. At the time i had agreed to pay €150 monthly after the sale. I chose not to make any repayments as I wanted to address the issue regarding the shortfall and make an arrangement to pay my share of the mortgage. Unfortuneatley the second person is not interested.   

I contacted the bank last month to work towards resolving the shortfall and was asked to contact a particular person at the bank. I contacted them and was told that my case was being handed to a debt collector Cobart. I contacted this person again and the case was still in the process of being handed over. I received a letter from the bank stating the case has being handed over to the debt collector. I contacted the debt collector twice and they have no information regarding my case. 

I'm posting this as I'm not sure what to do in terms of resolving the shortfall of €180,000. I am in full time employment. I have rearranged and reduced my outgoings to be able to rent and provide for my son and relocated to afford renting. I find it very stressful having this financial noose around my neck. I would like it resolved so _ I can move forward with my life for my family._

_Any advice welcome as I'm lost!_


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## Sarah76 (29 Jun 2015)

*New to this forum.


Income details
Net monthly *(i.e. after tax) Income self: €2378 monthly
*Net monthly *income partner/spouse: nature of income N/A
Income history: 
Amount of child benefit received (Should be €135 per child) 
Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received (MIS is the social welfare payment to unemployed people, don't confuse with TRS) N/A

*Personal circumstances so we can calculate your reasonable living expenses The Insolvency Service has published Guidelines for Reasonable Living Expenses based on the family size, whether or not you need a car for work, childcare costs and other exceptional circumstances. By filling in this information, we (or you ) can calculate what your reasonable monthly living expenses should be. 
One adult family or two adult family one adult family.
Do you need a car for work or do you use public transport?  Need car.
Number of children 0- 2 years old:
Number of 3 years old children: 
Number of 4 - 11 years old: One Child
Number of 12 - 18 years old:
Monthly childcare costs: €600
Montly spend on special circumstances: e.g. exceptional healthcare costs gave it up.


Home loanLender: Ulster Bank
Amount outstanding: €180,000
Value of home: Home sold for €185
Interest rate:  fixed rate for first 5 years
Monthly repayment 
Amount in arrears 

Summary of discussions and agreements with the banke.g. in Marp since Jan 2010 . Was on reduced payments. rented out our home from ) Oct 09 for nearly two years. Sold family home December 2012.

Credit Union Amount of shares €5,000
Amount of loan outstanding  €12,000
Monthly repayment €200
Term left 5 years


Other loans and creditors - delete those which don't apply to you
Overdraft - amount outstanding: €1300

Term loan Amount outstanding €700
Term loan term left 6 months pay 131 a month interest free.

Other savings and investments None

Do you expect any lump sums in the medium term future?  inheritance

How important is retaining the family home to you? Which of the following best describes your situation?

I would like to have a debt arrangement to be free of this financial situation. To work towards being free of debt.
Any other relevant information

What is your preferred realistic outcome? For example: "I want to deal with the shortfall and work towards being free of debt "

*


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jun 2015)

Cobart would have paid very little for this debt so they probably will do a deal.  It will be difficult to do anything though if the joint owner does not agree. 

It seems to me that you are insolvent.  So you should consider a Debt Settlement Arrangement or Bankruptcy.  

Write a letter to Ulster Bank and copy it to Cobart. Tell them that you are considering a Debt Settlement Arrangement but would prefer to see if you could sort it out informally first. 

If they don't respond, then you can either wait until they do something about it or be proactive and seek a DSA. 

They can't get blood from a stone. Prioritise your rent and your child.  

Maybe put the €150 per month into a separate account so that you have it to pay them if they reach an agreement or pay a Personal Insolvency Practitioner if they don't.

Brendan


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## vandriver (29 Jun 2015)

I assume we're talking about http://www.cabotfinancial.ie/  ??


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## Sarah76 (29 Jun 2015)

Thank you for your advice Brendan. It's unfortunate that the joint owner isn't engaging. It has caused a lot of dificulty.

I'm anxious about the whole thing as had awful trouble dealing with Ulster Bank. I have a good paper trail and registered all the letters. One month I made 20 calls!!!!! 

To be honest the thoughts of going through that again stresses me out. I had engaged with the bank prior to going into arrears as my relationship broke down and I got reduced repayments for two years. At this stage rented the property and moved home as had to rearrange my finances.

I didn't pay the €150 a month after the sale as felt it would just go into a black hole and it wasn't resolving the overall issue. It's horrible being in a position like this. I know I'm luckier than other people and I'm thankful and apreciate what I do have. I just want things resolved to make s better future for my son.


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## Sarah76 (29 Jun 2015)

Yes, vandriver Cobart Financial!

Though they have none of my details. It was bizarre received letter from ulster bank stating these were looking after my case. No signature either on letter though on their headed paper!


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## ClubMan (29 Jun 2015)

In case it's of any use...

I presume that you are getting €135 p.m. child benefit?
Would Family Income Supplement be available to you?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...es_and_children/family_income_supplement.html

Is the other parent of the child paying any child maintenance?
I would have expected them to be and a court could order it.

Make sure that you are claiming all relevant tax credits including the one parent family tax credit:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/one-parent-family.html


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## Sarah76 (29 Jun 2015)

I'm receiving my tax credits for one family parent. In relation to FIS I'm not eligible. Thank you for your advice Clubman. I receive €25 a week Maintainence. 

Just wanted to seek advice as I contacted MABS and met with them and didn't find them very helpful. They are not familiar with my type of situation..... I was told.

There are a lot of people in similar financial situation. The  frustrating thing is when there is only me engaging this has caused dificulty which makes it trickier dealing with the shortfall.


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## ClubMan (29 Jun 2015)

I've heard mixed reports of dealings with MABS alright.
Perhaps it's down to which office or individual you deal with?
Could you try another office?
Would the likes of IMHO or Phoenix Project be able to help?

https://www.mortgageholders.ie/
[broken link removed]

For what it's worth I accompanied one person to meetings with Phoenix (who are in Portlaoise so maybe not accessible to everybody) and found them very good.


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## Monbretia (29 Jun 2015)

MABS are not the place for this as they can only deal with the debt settlements of amounts of below 20k.  Other than that they could only help arrange a payment plan based on your income etc and that's not what you need at this stage.   I would also suggest the people Clubman recommended.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Jun 2015)

Monbretia said:


> MABS are not the place for this as they can only deal with the debt settlements of amounts of below 20k.



MABS advise on all personal debt and not just on debts under €20k.  ( They administer the Debt Relief Notices which have a limit of €20k, but that is a tiny part of their operation).

Wait until you hear from Cabot. At that stage, if your ex is not co-operating, you will need an insolvency solution and the best advisor would be a Personal Insolvency Practitioner. 

Brendan


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## Monbretia (30 Jun 2015)

Yes MABS advise on all debt but realistically all they will or can do for a debt this size is help you budget and make an arrangement to pay some amount with your creditor which in OPs case would see this debt going on forever,  I don't think that is the solution I think the OP is looking for, they want to see an end in sight with some sort of settlement.


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## Gerry Canning (30 Jun 2015)

Sarah 76.

1. Brendans advice is good , go to a Personal Insolvency practitioner now!.
2. This shortfall is I presume unsecured (in that you have no other big assets)
3. Cabot Financial may only be managing and do not own the shortfall.
4. Cabots sole remit is to squeeze as much as they can off you.(that is their job)
5. Mabs (from my experience ) have an irritating habit of agreeing small monthly payments.The problem is that there never seems to an end date when the payments will end + after a while the collector will look for more.
(everyone needs closure).#

The Personal Insolvency person will get you closure.
a, Agreed , affordable payments for a fixed term.
After that you can get 100% on with your life!

ps. Stop taking calls ,tell them it is too stressful and to put all in writing.
On calls (just to get rid of people) we are all inclined to use the dangerous word (yes) and walk ourselves into more hassle.

So PLEASE take Brendans advice.


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## ClubMan (30 Jun 2015)

Gerry Canning said:


> Stop taking calls ,tell them it is too stressful and to put all in writing.


[Slightly off topic...]
Easier said than done.
I know somebody dealing with BoI who has had serious health issues so the calls add stress that can be done without.
They are engaging with BoI over arrears etc. face to face and in writing but can do without the calls.
BoI have been asked several times (in writing) to put everything in writing but the keep calling, leaving phone messages and texting.
BoI never acknowledge in writing the requests not to call.
They also rebut and dismiss all complaints on the matter.
Surely there is some protection against this hassle?


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## demoivre (30 Jun 2015)

ClubMan said:


> Surely there is some protection against this hassle?



Non fatal offences against the person act such as Harrassment or Demands for payment of debt causing alarm would be what I would be looking at.

OP should be looking at a PIA imo as already mentioned. Average unsecured debt write down under a PIA since launch of ISI is 83.1% ( range 0 to 99.9% ). No affiliation but FWIW Grant Thornton do not charge upfront fees for arranging a PIA.


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## Sarah76 (30 Jun 2015)

Hi Gerry, thank you for the advice I'm contacting a personal insolvency practitioner. I'll have a read through forums re recommendation for one.

Re: calls Cobart haven't rang just received letter they haven't got my case yet as checked if they did.

Re off topic,,, the stress from being in a financial situation is unbelievable. Just have to believe there's light at the end of tunnel. 

Thank you for all the advice I really appreciate it


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## Monbretia (30 Jun 2015)

I have no affiliation either with Grant Thornton but was very impressed with them in some dealings I had indirectly.  All PIPs are not the same, choose wisely!


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## demoivre (30 Jun 2015)

Sarah76 said:


> Re off topic,,, the stress from being in a financial situation is unbelievable. Just have to believe there's light at the end of tunnel.



There absolutely is and there absolutely is help out there for people like you. Good luck with whatever route you take.


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## epicaricacy (30 Jun 2015)

Hi Sarah76

I would attempt to get this sorted ASAP if you want to avoid them getting their hands on your future inheritance (mentioned above).
Forget about your ex paying anything as you're both jointly and severally liable for the shortfall anyway. Fairness isn't relevant in this case. However, what is important is protecting your inheritance.

A full and final lump sum payment of e.g. 25K - sourced from a relative - seems like the optimal approach. Is it possible to get some of your inheritance early to pay off a percentage lump sum of the shortfall?

Your PIP will phrase it in such a way that the lump sum offer - based on your current SFS - is being made by a relative on the condition that the balance is written off. Implicit in the third party (relative) full and final lump sum payment is that you will have to repay the relative the lump sum in increments and therefore you won't be in a position to repay the remaining shortfall to the bank. Grant Thornton are currently working with a couple I know re. full and final lump sum on a shortfall amount and the couple are impressed with them thus far.

Off topic - I can relate to the stress as I sought bankruptcy in the UK re. our shortfall amount.

Good luck


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## Sarah76 (30 Jun 2015)

Hi epicaricacy, thank you for your advice. That is not an avenue for consideration re inheritance.

I'm making an appointment with a personal solvency practioner. Just want to resolve the debt myself not bring anything else into the mix.


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## epicaricacy (30 Jun 2015)

Hi Sarah

Fair enough. I didn't have access to a lump sum myself and even if I did it would be akin to signing a Faustian Pact as our relatives aren't the types to give something without extracting their pound of flesh in other ways.

The only issue I'd have is that the future inheritance could fall into their hands if the repayment period takes too many years. The shorter the repayment period the better.

Good luck


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## Sarah76 (30 Jun 2015)

You are right and it's something I am very aware of and don't want my son losing out either.

Re far future inheritance, it's a property.


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## ClubMan (30 Jun 2015)

Sarah76 said:


> Hi epicaricacy, thank you for your advice. That is not an avenue for consideration re inheritance.


Worth noting that disbursing inheritances (in part or full, in one go or tranches) while the benefactor is alive can be much more tax efficient than leaving it in a will.


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## epicaricacy (30 Jun 2015)

Hi Sarah

We considered future inheritances - due to the age profile of my parents - when we decided on petitioning for UK bankruptcy. Hopefully my progenitors will last another decade or more, but one can never be sure.

If you believe that your inheritance is in the 'far future' then it's not too much of a concern. However, the way the 5 year DSAs operate involves the bank maintaining the right to come after your inheritance if it happens within the 5 year period - therefore,  it's better that it's initiated (and finished) as soon as possible. It would be soul destroying to have to hand it over.


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## Sarah76 (1 Jul 2015)

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. I hope things are all settled now for you.

Too true it would be soul destroying.

I've contacted two practioners so see what happens. Thanks again


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