# Want to move but in large negative equity



## glic83 (20 Mar 2013)

Hi all, i dont have figures at the moment as im awaiting to hear back from the bank, credit union etc.

We bought our home in 2008 builders finish just before the crash.
We have put everything we have into the house to get to the best finish that we could afford.My wife was made redundant in 2010 ( just after we found out we were expecting) and hasnt been able able to find work since.

We are un-happy where we live and decided after the child was born to try to sell the house and move back to where we are both from.We are out the country and would prefer to be back closer to family.

We are in a mess financially, have been interest only for 2 years now and we are awaiting to hear back from the bank about what will happen when our interest only expires this month.

If we were to get back to our hometown, i can transfer with my work (public sector) and my wife will continue to searh for work.We might even be able to get rid of one of the cars and would have family near by and wouldnt feel so isolated.

Now if we were to move back , we still have the issue of the house, if we tried to rent it out we wouldnt even get the money needed for interest only. We havent had interest in the house and there are a few properties in the area that have been up for sale longer and are still up for sale .
Ideally we would just sell the house and deal with the short fall, but we cant seem to sell it also i dont know how much of a shortfall KBC will allow?

If we just move back to our hometown and try to rent out the house (that would leave a shortfall which we wouldnt be able to cover) and just paid that to the bank they would i presume repossess the house?


Just looking for opinions or idea's on our situation as we are genuinely miserable where we are and our marriage is suffering because of this.

I will post figures in the next few days when we have up to date figures.


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Mar 2013)

> I will post figures in the next few days when we have up to date figures.



The figures don't have to be exact. Give a rough idea now so that people can give you informed advice. 

You "want" to move, but there is no compulsion at the moment.  This suggests that you should stay where you are.

As a public sector employee with a secure salary you are unlikely to be able to avail of the Personal Insolvency Act.


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## glic83 (21 Mar 2013)

*Personal and income details
*Income self:                  nature of income : Public sector  2,218 take home per month(currently have my wife's tax credits)
Income history: Job is safe
Income partner/spouse: On Job Seekers Benefit 188 pw
Income history: Made redundant in 2010, got temp work for a few months in summer 2012 nothing since.
number of children: 1 aged 1yr 10 months
Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received: Nil
*Home loan
*Lender: KBC
Amount outstanding: 269,341.40
Value of home: 180,000 (on a good day)
Interest rate: SVR 4.5%
Monthly repayment :1,010.30 (interest only)
Amount in arrears: Nil

Summary of discussions and agreements with the bank:
Received a letter today stating that after reviwing our SFS they are giving us another 12 months interest only, so we are going onto our 3rd year interest only. 

*Other loans and creditors - *delete those which don't apply to you
Overdraft 1 : 1000 never get out of over draft
Overdraft (joint acc) : 900 Always in overdraft never get out of it
Credit Card : 2,212 -17.3 %
Credit Union    Loan of €8,052 against shares of €2,387 - Will be finished 16 Feb 2016 
Car loan 8,000 left at 5% -restructured payments now 175 per month for 48 months


*Other savings and investments 
Nil

How important is retaining the family home to you? 
*Which of the following best describes your situation?

I don't care about keeping the family home. We want to move back to our hometown, wife can't get work , we need 2 cars because we are out the country and there is no public transport.We are struggling financially and have used any available money we had to get us this far.


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## Bronte (22 Mar 2013)

I don't think that your mortgage is 'sustainable'.  You cannot pay 1K interest only on an income of 2200 indefinitely.  That's leaving you with 276 weekly to pay food, utilities and other debt.  I realise your wife has a social welfare payment but that will end.  But ultimately as you are not able to properly pay the mortgage it's pointless.  

Ask your bank can you sell and see what they say.  That's the first step, an orderly sale if possible.  Then you agree to pay back the NE as a long term unsecured loan, ultimately I don't see how you'll be able to pay that back if you are going to rent at your homeplace.  Hopefully this year with all the pressure on banks to come to 'sustainable' arrangements your bank will be more amendable to a long term solution for you.


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## glic83 (23 Mar 2013)

Hi Bronte, yes when we got the letter from the bank there on thursday evening saying we were getting interest only and also stating that we should seek financial advice but wanted the letter back on Monday, i rang them yesterday evening and explained that it was a bit hard to seek advice and get the letter back to them all within a 24hr period he agreed and i am ringing mabs on Monday to get a meeting asap.

Also when i was talking with KBC he asked was i unhappy with another 12 months interest only? I replied i didnt know tbh as no other options were put forward by the bank but i would talk to mabs and get back to them.

I would love to sell and just deal with the shortfall but cant seem to even sell it at this stage.I just cant see how we are ever going to be able to resume full capital and interest payments.We dont live a fancy lifestyle, we havent had a holiday since our honeymoon in 2009 , we dont go out unless its for an important family event like a milestone birthday or a wedding for example.We have basic sky just for the childrens channels. We have re-structured all our loans to be paying the min ammount .


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## glic83 (25 Mar 2013)

Rang Mabs today and the earliest they can meet us is the 10th so will have to ring the bank and let them know that, they said we can make a manual payment for april but as we havent said yes we want another year of interest only i take it that for this month we would have to pay the full payment of 1500?


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## glic83 (27 Mar 2013)

Rang KBC today to tell them we would be able to meet with mabs untill the 10th of April, he just wanted to know what date that they would be receiving a payment in April and when they would be receiving the form back for the 12 months interest only , i told him that i wouldnt be doing anything untill i had talked to Mabs first. I then asked him what other options were available to us and hes reply was " either another 12 months interest only or increase the payments". What is the criteria for split mortgages?who qualifies for them? Now i know we want to get rid of the house anyway but dont see what the 12 months interest only is going to do long term as my wages arent going increase and if my wife cant get work shes probably going to have to go back to college and upskill so that would mean we wouldnt be able to return to paying capital for a good while to come.


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## Bronte (28 Mar 2013)

Did you ask the bank about being able to sell?


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## glic83 (28 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> Did you ask the bank about being able to sell?




Yes he said if we got an offer we would have to come to them with the offer and then they discuss it and it would depend on the ammount of shortfall, he wouldnt give a figure that we could sell for .


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## doubledeb (28 Mar 2013)

Ask them to give it to you in writing that you are allowed to put the house up for sale and even if ye get 170k for it you will have a shortfall of 100k.  Ask them in what way they will structure this 100k for repayment.

If you could get this over a long term it would reduce the pressure.  the only problem is if you are paying rent @800pm say and even 200pm on the shortfall you wouldn't be in a much better postion financially but in a lot better position mentally.  And tbh thats much more important.

And remember that 100k will be unsecured debt.


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## Bronte (29 Mar 2013)

doubledeb said:


> Ask them to give it to you in writing .
> 
> .


 
I don't agree with this. Banks will not write this down. So my advice to Glic is to put it on the market and tell the bank how much. In all likelyhood the bank will accept it, particularly I think this year as they seem to be getting a bit more realistic. After the sale he'll just have to see what they say about the shortfall. One step at a time would be the approach. I believe from his conversation the bank wants him to make the move on the sale. Better a mutually agreeable solution. And for better for Glic to start sorting it out for himself if the bank lets him. 

Glib to reassure you, I've been reliable informed that banks are allowing some sales and then literally ignoring the shortfalls (where the debtor has't got the income).


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## Kev (29 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> I don't agree with this. Banks will not write this down. So my advice to Glic is to put it on the market and tell the bank how much. In all likelyhood the bank will accept it, particularly I think this year as they seem to be getting a bit more realistic. After the sale he'll just have to see what they say about the shortfall. One step at a time would be the approach.  I believe from his conversation the bank wants him to make the move on the sale.  Better a mutually agreeable solution.  And for better for Glic to start sorting it out for himself if the bank lets him.
> 
> Glib to reassure you, I've been reliable informed that banks are allowing some sales and then literally ignoring the shortfalls (where the debtor has't got the income).



For the Glib own health I would put it on the market, if that's best for s/he but I would not trust the bank in ignoring any shortfalls.  However, if you cannot afford to pay,  then they will have a difficult time in collecting any shortfall, it will be given out to a debt collector and they are not very nice organization and very hungry for money,  I think it is 12 years without making any payments on the shortfall being made it then becomes statue barred.


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## doubledeb (29 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> I don't agree with this. Banks will not write this down. So my advice to Glic is to put it on the market and tell the bank how much. In all likelyhood the bank will accept it, particularly I think this year as they seem to be getting a bit more realistic. After the sale he'll just have to see what they say about the shortfall. One step at a time would be the approach. I believe from his conversation the bank wants him to make the move on the sale. Better a mutually agreeable solution. And for better for Glic to start sorting it out for himself if the bank lets him.
> 
> Glib to reassure you, I've been reliable informed that banks are allowing some sales and then literally ignoring the shortfalls (where the debtor has't got the income).


 
I think you may have misunderstood me Bronte.  I wasn't suggesting that the bank would write down the shortfall.  I was just suggesting that he get the house on the market with the banks permission, and then agree a repayment plan with them for the shortfall.  Still paying the full amount in then end. (possibly)

Can I ask you Bronte why you think the banks are getting more realistic?, its my opinion they are up-ing their game and not taking such a sympathetic approach.  I get the feeling they are trying to come down heavier on borrowers getting them to ignore other debt and pay them exclusively (as in my case) so that when the banks have to comply with new govt. legislation in relation to having a certain % of mortgages restructured, they won't have such a hard job.


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## Bronte (29 Mar 2013)

doubledeb said:


> Can I ask you Bronte why you think the banks are getting more realistic?, its my opinion they are up-ing their game and not taking such a sympathetic approach. .


 
As I think you misunderstood me I've changed the post above. In relation to writing down, I actually disagreed with you on getting the bank to put *pen to paper* and write that they would allow a sale and asking them what to do with the shortfall. Glic has as it nearly as good as on paper that he is allowed to sell, and he wants rid of the house. Banks will not put it in writing that he is allowed sell until they know the sale price as they want to prevent any underhand transactions and also they want to keep control of who sells where and at what price (as best they can) In Glics particular circumstances he should do this step first. Then next step is the shortfall. Worry about that later, not now. In any case if he does not have the money the shortfall will have to be dealt with and if you cannot afford it it's inevitable, it is written off. But meantime he is rid of one problem the house.

In relation to your own circumstances. What exactly is your situation? Everything obviously also depends on each individual bank. But this is the year that things *have* to change. Sympathy is not something that banks do so that should be kept out of the equation. This is business. The reasons they have to change is the following: one bank (Bank of Scotland I think) are pulling out of Ireland and will be open to deals, Ulster bank has started sending out the letters to get repossessions going, the legislation for repelling the Dunne judgment (the stay on repossession not started before 2009) is printed and will be law very soon, the banks have been given targets to meet, the central banks are talking strongly on it, the insolvency service is created and is working on a reasonable standard of living, auctioneers are expecting a floodgate of repossessed properties later this year, Nama is releasing, albeit slowly, property. All this means something is happening. You are though going to get a case of which banks blink first, maybe your bank is difficult to deal with or maybe you're unrealistic, all circumstances are different.  It may be for you that the bank are correct and that you should pay them and ignore other creditors.


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## glic83 (12 Apr 2013)

Just an update, we have been talking to the auctioneer and he recommends a price around 185,000 and is hopeful this will get interest in the house, time will tell if he is right.

We also met with Mabs during the week went through our budget with them and are just double checking figures on 1 or 2 area's as we may have been putting a lower figure for 1 or 2 bills than we are actually spending, the rep told us all our figures are average for spending ie we aren't overspending in area's .

She advised us to contact the bank and ask for a real long term solution like they initally mentioned so i sent off a letter asking for other options for us to consider and that we didnt feel a third year IO was a long term solution.

Will update with any new progress when I hear back from KBC.


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## glic83 (20 May 2013)

Right had a viewing there on Friday , the couple is moving home from England and they were home for a wedding so they wanted to get a few viewings in. They viewed 3 houses but the auctioneer said they seemed to like ours the best. Got a phone call today saying the couple from England really like our house and are cash buyers so there is no mortgage needed, they want to know whats the lowest we can go on the sale?

Looking for advice on how to proceed here , will be ringing the bank tomorrow to see if they will tell us a figure they will accept.
We bought the house in 2008 for 305,000 builders finish, we have put everything we have into the house to get it to the standard it is today. If we could get close to the 185,000 I think we would be doing well but they are cash buyers so they are hoping to get a deal done quick I suppose.As it stands the mortgage is around 270,000.
From my families point of view we know we will have a big shortfall but are just trying to get rid of the house 1st and then worry bout the shortfall?

Would really appreciate any advice or opinions that anyone has on this matter.


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## Luternau (20 May 2013)

Good news. Is it not up to the buyer to put in an offer through your aictioneer at this stage? 

If you say 185k, they will only offer lower, so you need to find out their lowest price and work up from there towards the price the bank will accept. Then go back to the bank with their offer. See what the bank say to it if its not the amount they want and then go back to accept or negotiate a bit more. ( all via auctioneer )


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## glic83 (20 May 2013)

I do think 185,000 is good value for the house and would like to get as close to this as possible that said, a cash buyer today can throw in an offer way below and someone else will accept it just to get rid of the house.


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## Luternau (20 May 2013)

What does the auctioneer advise? They are supposed to be maximising the price you get!


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## Bronte (21 May 2013)

I agree with Luternau, ask the auctioneer, he knows the score on the bank and he probably knows how much the house is worth.  Bank will not allow the sale if the offer is too low.  How much are houses like yours selling for, did you look up the property price registar becase if I were a banker deciding whether the offer was fair that's were I'd start.


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## glic83 (21 May 2013)

It was the auctioneer that suggested the price of 185,000.He said that it was around this price that was getting the viewings and getting offers.

Ive checked the property price registar, and there is no sales in 2013 in my area and only 4 listed for 2012. The prices for 2012 come no where near 185,000. For 2012 the highest price is just under 130,000.Now the houses would be a bit smaller and wouldnt be to the same finish.

On a different note we heard back from KBC. The only thing they are offering in relation to an alternative solution is interest only so god only knows what they we suggesting with " we will get back to you with long term solutions".
They told us that if we stop paying the credit union and the credit card that we shouldnt have a problem affording the interest only.


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## glic83 (5 Jul 2013)

Just an update, the couple that were interested in the house were put off by the fact we would need the bank's approval to sell and didn't put in an offer.

Two weeks ago, they rang enquiring had we broadband and what was it like etc so not holding my breath but they may put in an offer.

My wife's jobs seekers benefit is now gone (188 euro pw), she is now on job seekers allowance of 20 euro pw.

We never signed the interest only document from the bank as we felt it was too much and explained that we needed other options, new sfs being sent on Monday with adjustment that the wife's money is now 20 euro pw.

I am meeting with the credit union hopefully next week to see if they can further extend the loan period.

Rang the credit card company to see if they can freeze the interest they said they cant but call in to them and have a chat and they will see what they can do.

Wifes car - we really do need a 2nd car as there is no public transport what so ever where we live and we need a 2nd car so she can actually get anyway so we have to sell her car pay off her car loan and hope there is anything left over to get a run around.

I am going to request a moratorium from the mortgage provider so we can try and sort ourselves out a bit.

We really need to move at this stage my wife would stand a better chance of getting a job if we were back where we used to live, would be handier to be closer to family as well with our child as if she does get work again they would be able to help out with minding him.

Any advice on something I may have over looked ? or advice on anything that may improve our situation in anyway?


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