# Contracts Exchanged, but vendor getting cold feet



## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

hi everyone , i have not been on this site that much this past number of months.

i went sale agreed on a three bedroom terraced town house in Limerick city last November ( 161k with contents ) , surveyor was very content with property , built sometime in the 1960,s

anyway the EA ( Who ive dealt with before ) explained how the vendor lived with ABI ( aquired brain injury ) and because they were looking to buy an apartment to live in , they needed a little time due to lack of choices on the market , i said i was fine leaving closing date until the beginning of February , i met the vendor the day the surveyor inspected the house and i would describe this person as high functioning , no immediate signs of mental incapacitation , he got hurt in a construction accident ten years ago.

anyway contracts were signed in late January but the vendor has not yet moved out and the latest from his solicitor is that his friends and relatives let him down and he has no place to go , my plans for this property involved entering into a twenty year lease with Limerick council so i do not want to leave this person in situ and allow him become a tenant , he could be viewed as a vulnerable person and its hard enough to evict fully healthy people in this country.

my solicitor has assured me that my deposit is 100% safe and that the very least we would expect along with the return of my deposit is compensation for legal costs ( circa 2k including vat ) , she also advised me that if i pursued it and it went to court , i would be sure to win in all likelihood , she asked me however if i really wanted to potentially spend two years in limbo dealing with this matter .

im undecided and instructed my solicitor to extend closing until April 1st before i decide what to do next , this house is good value at 161k , its not in a glamorous location but its ok and could deliver a rent of 1400 per month , takes 20% off when dealing with the local authority and thats circa 1100 per month guarenteed with only property tax and insurance as my responsibility as the council do everything else bar structural maintaineance . thats a yield of almost 7.5%

in a rising market , im almost tempted to issue proceedings as the vendor is bound to vacate based on the fact he has signed contracts ?


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## cremeegg (21 Mar 2021)

Unless there is something specific in the contract the vendor is bound to complete the sale.

You can agree to extend the closing date if you are happy with that.

If the vendor does not complete your legal action would usually be to force a completion rather that seek damages for failure to complete. I wonder why your solicitor is looking at damages.

The vendor must vacate at the closing date. This is very important, if you don't get vacant possession the issues could become horrendous.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

cremeegg said:


> Unless there is something specific in the contract the vendor is bound to complete the sale.
> 
> You can agree to extend the closing date if you are happy with that.
> 
> ...



Sale is not closed and won't be under current circumstances, my solicitor believes the vendor has gotten cold feet and wants an out , my solicitor is asking if I should decide against forcing closure of sale and instead walk away after deposit is returned and my legal costs ( 2k  covered )

She says I could pursue matters but the question is if I want to waste two years


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> anyway contracts were signed in late January but the vendor has not yet moved out



What was the closing date in the contract? 

It's quite common for people to delay moving out.  Unless they have told you that they want to pull out of the sale, assume that they will proceed.



galway_blow_in said:


> anyway the EA ( Who ive dealt with before ) explained how the vendor lived with ABI ( aquired brain injury ) and because they were looking to buy an apartment to live in , they needed a little time due to lack of choices on the market , i said i was fine leaving closing date until the beginning of February , i met the vendor the day the surveyor inspected the house and i would describe this person as high functioning , no immediate signs of mental incapacitation ,



You have acquired a lot of skills during your absence from askaboutmoney. You can diagnose the seriousness of brain injury now. Well done.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> What was the closing date in the contract?
> 
> It's quite common for people to delay moving out.  Unless they have told you that they want to pull out of the sale, assume that they will proceed.
> 
> ...



My brother acquired a brain injury when he was hit by a car while riding a bike aged fourteen in 1992  so let's say I know when someone appears high functioning or not , my brother is not high functioning , this guy is and the EA told me in advance he was , perhaps she has it on good authority that he is and decided to represent him in the sale in light of this .

Have you a point hidden amongst the crass comment?


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2021)

I am surprised that you don't get my point. It's not rocket science or brain surgery. 

You are not in any way able to assess whether someone you meet casually is high functioning or not. 

Brendan


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## Leper (21 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am surprised that you don't get my point. It's not rocket science or brain surgery.
> 
> You are not in any way able to assess whether someone you meet casually is high functioning or not.
> 
> Brendan


It isn't often I support Mr Burgess on matters as grave as this, but he is right. Unless you are qualified in neurosurgery or some form of Psychiatry you are not qualified to assess anybody's mental state. Sorry!


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2021)

My advice is to walk away including the 2k hit if necessary. Sometimes it’s just the right thing to do.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Leper said:


> It isn't often I support Mr Burgess on matters as grave as this, but he is right. Unless you are qualified in neurosurgery or some form of Psychiatry you are not qualified to assess anybody's mental state. Sorry!



what relevance does it have to anything ? , it was observational detail i mentioned , the guy is not a ward of the state so he is viewed as compos mentis to sign a contract to sell his house , he bought it himself in 2013

however , if he ( having gotten cold feet ) refused to vacate and i decided to issue proceedings to force him to close , its possible his own legal rep might refer to his ABI , its not possible to know the kind of judge you get in court or what their mood might be like on a particular day , perhaps the judge would toss the case back another six months . my solicitor made these points 

im of mind to pursue him tbh but i dont like ignoring my solicitor as i value her opinion


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Bronte said:


> My advice is to walk away including the 2k hit if necessary. Sometimes it’s just the right thing to do.



i wont be walking away with a 2k loss , if i do decide to allow the contract to be rescinded , i will insist on my costs , thats a given 

if someone was that desperate to not sell , i doubt a 2k bill would upset them that much


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am surprised that you don't get my point. It's not rocket science or brain surgery.
> 
> You are not in any way able to assess whether someone you meet casually is high functioning or not.
> 
> Brendan



so you just wanted to zero in on an unimportant detail in order to take a swipe and double down on the crassness  , got it  .

no wonder this site is dying


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> so you just wanted to zero in on an unimportant detail in order to take a swipe and double down on the crassness  , got it  .
> 
> no wonder this site is dying


You know how this works, you asked us our opinions, you don’t like them, if you only want us to post platitudes you’re on the wrong website.

The most important detail you posted was the sellers disability. You’re losing a deal is, in my view, small potatoes as you said max 2k. And maybe not even that.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2021)

The most important detail is what was the closing date and you have not answered that for some odd reason. 

You made an extraordinary statement that someone who had ABI , was high functioning.  What are we supposed to do?  Ignore this? 

Brendan


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The most important detail is what was the closing date and you have not answered that for some odd reason.
> 
> You made an extraordinary statement that someone who had ABI , was high functioning.  What are we supposed to do?  Ignore this?
> 
> Brendan



whats " extraordinary " about it ?

i was told by the EA that that is what he is , perhaps she had that information from the vendors solicitor , the solicitor representing the vendor obviously believed they were compos mentis , solicitors dont usually give their blessing to the signing of contracts if they believe the individual is incapable of understanding it.

the closing date was supposed to be the end of February gone by and the vendors solicitor actually informed my solicitor in mid February that they wanted to close ASAP , then all of a sudden in the first few days of March , my solicitor got a call from the vendors solicitor , saying that their client might never wish to leave the property , my solicitor and i agreed that the best thing to do was to allow another month ( april 1st ) so as to give the vendor times to perhaps arrange a place to move to and to get their head together.

obviously the next thing to do is to serve a completion notice or else agree to the contract being rescinded if my costs are covered , my solicitor is confident i would win a case were i to force sale but said it might take two years to reach court

question is whether its worth waiting two years ?

unfortunate that someone saw it as necessary to engage in snide digs about how apparently nobody can even use the term " high functioning " ABI case unless they have multiple Phd,s

talk about petty pedantry ?


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## mustang01 (21 Mar 2021)

To be fair to the OP, I get the sense that he mentioned this to illustrate the vendor was compos mentis so the change of heart wasn’t necessarily down to his condition, though same could well be used as a mitigating circumstance in prolonging closing.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (21 Mar 2021)

Neither the brain injury nor the OP's subjective assessment is relevant here .

The contract was signed by someone presumably of sound mind who seems to be getting cold feet for whatever reason.

The question is what the OP should do.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> the closing date was supposed to be the end of February gone by



Thanks for telling us that eventually.  A slippage of a month would not strike me as unusual.



galway_blow_in said:


> my solicitor got a call from the vendors solicitor , saying that their client might never wish to leave the property ,



So the vendor's solicitor said that.  Were they just sounding you out, do you think? 



galway_blow_in said:


> i agreed that the best thing to do was to allow another month ( april 1st ) so as to give the vendor times to perhaps arrange a place to move to and to get their head together.



Explain what you mean by "get their head together"? 

Brendan


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## Thirsty (21 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> whether its worth waiting two years


Not in my opinion; life is too short. There'll be other properties.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Thanks for telling us that eventually.  A slippage of a month would not strike me as unusual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



when a vendor expresses a desire to close by the end of february and then two weeks later , expresses distress and a desire to perhaps remain on , you suspect they need time to sort themselves out , vendors solicitor claimed his client had been let down by family and friends as he was not able to say goodbye to this house today and walk into his new apartment tomorrow , thus his interim period accommodation had not worked out , perhaps this is what has caused the rush of anxiety or whatever it is , perhaps his solicitor wrongly assumed he was compos mentis enough to understand the nature of contracts etc ?


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

mustang01 said:


> To be fair to the OP, I get the sense that he mentioned this to illustrate the vendor was compos mentis so the change of heart wasn’t necessarily down to his condition, though same could well be used as a mitigating circumstance in prolonging closing.



exactly , if i am left with no option but to force sale through the courts , its not a stretch to imagine that the vendors ABI might be used as a defence for his actions , if all i got in such a court sitting was a sorry but you cant buy the house , i would feel rather silly


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Neither the brain injury nor the OP's subjective assessment is relevant here .
> 
> The contract was signed by someone presumably of sound mind who seems to be getting cold feet for whatever reason.
> 
> The question is what the OP should do.



thanks coyote , i regret the trajectory this thread has been seemingly  derailed towards


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## galway_blow_in (21 Mar 2021)

BTW , the money to buy this house was derived from farm land i sold late last year , i thought about planting it in trees but decided against in the end , the land was rented to a farmer for a good few years but he had no one to carry on and chose not to continue renting it ,  my other half was not keen on the idea and you cant make decisions entirely on your own at the end of the day , im a cash buyer here , not terribly relevant but thought id mention it


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## Leo (22 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> exactly , if i am left with no option but to force sale through the courts , its not a stretch to imagine that the vendors ABI might be used as a defence for his actions , i


You could gamble a few thousand and initiate proceedings. None of us know the extent of the brain injury, but if it's at the lower end of the spectrum they are hardly likely to want to go down the road of declaring themselves incapable of entering into a contract.

How many of these cases ever get to the courts? Quite a few years ago I was in a similar position and from the point of issuing proceedings to the vendor backing down and closing took ~3 months.


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## galway_blow_in (22 Mar 2021)

Leo said:


> You could gamble a few thousand and initiate proceedings. None of us know the extent of the brain injury, but if it's at the lower end of the spectrum they are hardly likely to want to go down the road of declaring themselves incapable of entering into a contract.
> 
> How many of these cases ever get to the courts? Quite a few years ago I was in a similar position and from the point of issuing proceedings to the vendor backing down and closing took ~3 months.



is there a risk he agreed to vacate , sale closed but then i discovered he was still living in the house and refused to leave ?

obviously i would have the law on my side in such a scenario but knowing this country , would it still take quite a while to evict ?


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## huskerdu (22 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> is there a risk he agreed to vacate , sale closed but then i discovered he was still living in the house and refused to leave ?
> 
> obviously i would have the law on my side in such a scenario but knowing this country , would it still take quite a while to evict ?


You wouldnt let it get to that. 

Insist on an inspection of the property on the morning of completion,  to ensure that the property is vacant and is in the same condition as it was when you signed contracts.


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## Leo (22 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> is there a risk he agreed to vacate , sale closed but then i discovered he was still living in the house and refused to leave ?
> 
> obviously i would have the law on my side in such a scenario but knowing this country , would it still take quite a while to evict ?



There is, if he refuses to leave you'd then end up going down the road of obtaining and enforcing an eviction order (a pre-close inspection should be carried out to confirm all personal possessions have been removed.) That said, if that happens you be able to recover the costs associated with that from the sale proceeds.   

Your solicitor will advise on the potential scenarios and the costs involved.


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## galway_blow_in (22 Mar 2021)

Leo said:


> There is, if he refuses to leave you'd then end up going down the road of obtaining and enforcing an eviction order (a pre-close inspection should be carried out to confirm all personal possessions have been removed.) That said, if that happens you be able to recover the costs associated with that from the sale proceeds.
> 
> Your solicitor will advise on the potential scenarios and the costs involved.



thanks , my plans for the house involve leasing it to the local authority for twenty years , i absolutely do not want to buy with a person in situ , i would not be aghast at the idea of buying with someone in situ in a more desirable area but while this area is significantly above where i have another house ( bought in 2017 with vacant possession and leased to local authority since 2018 )  , its still not the kind of place i want to be a landlord in , thats no reflection on the person with ABI , he seemed fine the day i met him in terms of character but being a private landlord with this house is not something i want


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## Leo (22 Mar 2021)

galway_blow_in said:


> he seemed fine the day i met him in terms of character but being a private landlord with this house is not something i want



Understandable, but he could never claim rights to a tenancy there. My guess is the majority of people on the receiving end of a specific performance action fold and walk away pretty quickly. It's a long shot to get the sale reversed and they stand to lose significant money in the attempt.


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## galway_blow_in (22 Mar 2021)

spoke to my solicitor today , she is informing the vendor that closing date is april 1st and after that we will be serving a completion notice


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## galway_blow_in (9 Apr 2021)

hi again , vendors solicitor wrote to my own solicitor yesterday , stating that his client now " wont be selling the house " and the word " innocence " was used. 

what an unwelcome development , i certainly dont hold the vendors solicitor in much regards , allowing an unfit person to sign a contract ?


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## noproblem (9 Apr 2021)

So, when is a signed contract not a signed contract? It's all well and good saying the person has an "injury" but if you want the house go for it. I would as I believe a deal is a deal and good luck. Too much sympathy, tears, and looking back in this country


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Apr 2021)

They are just trying it on. 

Issue proceedings and they will change their tune.

Brendan


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## galway_blow_in (9 Apr 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They are just trying it on.
> 
> Issue proceedings and they will change their tune.
> 
> Brendan



Il issue a completion notice anyway , after that i will have to decide what to do , i asked the EA about the whole thing three weeks ago today and she said she was not aware of any plan to remain on but she did know her client was having trouble "finding a place to stay" ?

I said i hoped i was not being " gazumped " as the sale was agreed in early december of last year and prices are up even since then , she said she didnt believe that was the case , ive dealt with this EA before and she is honourable i believe but at the end of the day , its not her fight at this stage .

part of me does wonder if the vendor really did fail to understand the nature of a contract , would a judge by the time the thing went to court , be likely to show compassion and say he can remain on ?

impossible to know obviously but its a tricky one


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## galway_blow_in (6 May 2021)

spoke to my solicitor again today , completion notice was served April 13th , the vendors solicitor has now gone to ground as well , complete mess the whole thing.

my solicitor reckons the vendors solicitor is aiming to protect himself and that is why he is not engaging , my solicitor is going to phone the other solicitor to insist that they come to the table with something .

even i walked at this stage , the contract has to be rescinded and you need engagement for that .

im not saying i have ruled out pursuing this all of the way just to be clear


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## galway_blow_in (29 Jun 2021)

so the book will be closed on this one in the coming week , I will receive 8500 compensation which has to cover my solicitors fees as well , vendors solicitor claims his client is on disability and had to go cap in hand to his relatives for money , considering as recent as four weeks ago , the vendors solicitor was not willing to offer a red cent , its about the best outcome i could expect , while the law would have been on my side , i doubt a judge would force the sale two years down the line as its quite possible the vendor would be unable to find a replacement home for the agreed sale price

the house today is worth at least 180 K , such is the level of rise in Limerick since last winter , the lesson for me is never ever agree to buy a place where vacant possession is not abundantly clear , The EA told me when i was bidding last year that close of sale would need three months from the sale agreed point and the fact that the vendor has an aquired brain injury , should alone have warned me away , pity as it was a fine house which required no spend whatsoever


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jun 2021)

I think you made the right decision.  Well done!

Brendan


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## galway_blow_in (29 Jun 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think you made the right decision.  Well done!
> 
> Brendan



Thank you Brendan and sorry for the petulant posting earlier in the thread


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## noproblem (29 Jun 2021)

A lesson there for all of us. Well done, if that's the right way of putting it.


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## Clamball (29 Jun 2021)

It is really tough for you not getting the house you bought at the price you paid.  2 years later you have no house and prices have gone up and you have been left with €8K compensation.  Not surprised you feel hard done by,  But you probably have the best outcome you could manage given the circumstances.  Well done for persisting and trying to recoup something


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jun 2021)

Clamball said:


> It is really tough for you not getting the house you bought at the price you paid.  2 years later you have no house and prices have gone up and you have been left with €8K compensation.  Not surprised you feel hard done by,  But you probably have the best outcome you could manage given the circumstances.  Well done for persisting and trying to recoup something



not " two years later " , i went sale agreed on the house november 2020 , contracts were signed the last day of February or thereabouts


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## Thirsty (30 Jun 2021)

> ..you have no house..



This was an investment rather than a PPR I think @galway_blow_in ?


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jun 2021)

Thirsty said:


> This was an investment rather than a PPR I think @galway_blow_in ?



That's correct


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