# Commercial tenant not paid rent since January



## DARICK (17 Aug 2011)

I have a commercial premises rented and I have not recieved any rent or rates since last january, I am presently owed 45000 by this scumbag.
I am awaiting a court date and have followed all the correct procedures, but seems to be taking forever.
I am unable to pay my morgage and am in a very serious situation.
Does anyone have any ideas.
P.s The tenant has no intention of paying and knows exactly how to play the system.


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## mercman (17 Aug 2011)

I assume you have contacted your solicitors contacting this matter. There are mehods where you can simply re-enter the premises and change the locks which will cease him from entering the property. Talk with your solicitor immediately.


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## oldnick (17 Aug 2011)

Had similar five yrs ago. Shop in capel St. Took five months before got legal power -court order,bailiff,changed locks etc. My lawyer,like yours evidently, went very softly softly on this kept on  saying if we are too pushy we won't get court order , are you sure the tenant has no reason not to pay blah blah blah.

I thought five months was crazy. Eight months is unimaginable. Get that court order.


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## oldnick (17 Aug 2011)

Just remembered - are the courts closed ?
I could suggest from my long experience working in very tough areas of Dublin an alternative approach but the post would be removed.


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## DARICK (17 Aug 2011)

Tks old nick, courts are closed, and am awaiting date.
This guy is actively antoginising and mocking me trying to provoke me.


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## DARICK (17 Aug 2011)

Hi mercman, courts are closed, and am awaiting date.
This guy is actively antoginising and mocking me trying to provoke me.
Solicitor says I cant go near the place and have to wait etc.
What happens if I change locks.


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## mercman (17 Aug 2011)

On the basis that what you have said is correct, you would be best to place a forfeiture notice to get the property back. Then once this has been issued, you can then reenter the property. There is another way legally but I will have to go through my files to provide you with detail. 

IMO you are wasting your time going to Court as in these times, the judge will show sympathy with the tenant and then you will be back to square one. Remember in this case, receiving no rent might be better than receiving rent. Tell your solicitor to use the law and stop messing about.


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## DARICK (17 Aug 2011)

Tks mercman, if I go in and change locks whats the worst that can happen for me.


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## mf1 (17 Aug 2011)

Re-entry, for forfeiture,  without a Court Order, can only be effected if it can be done peaceably. 

If re-entry cannot be effected peaceably, you issue proceedings and seek an order for possession from the Court. 

You cannot use force. It is a criminal offence under Section 2 of the 1971 Prohibition of Forcible Entry and Occupation Act.  

mf


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## mercman (17 Aug 2011)

DARICK said:


> Tks mercman, if I go in and change locks whats the worst that can happen for me.



darick, work that one out yourself ? Your property and your liability.

I certainly do not wish to counter any solicitors posts or opinions, but around 7 or 8 years ago my solicitor advised me to find a locksmith, enter the property at night / Sunday and change the locks. This was done on two separate occasions on two different properties, and the tenant's solicitors in both cases were very capable solicitors.

And that instruction was from the litigation department of the largest law firm in Ireland. I will have to dig out my files to source the correct terms used. Will do on Friday as I will be away tomorrow.

And there was no Court order at the time. From memory one was a dispute over sub tenants in the property, and the other over delapidations.


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## DARICK (18 Aug 2011)

Tks for your time mercman and really appreciate it.

Is it easy or difficult for tenant to get me removed by court order once ive done this.


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## oldnick (18 Aug 2011)

darick - I presume that the tenant is not claiming a reason for not paying. E.G. Water leaks, sewerage smell or anything that may be your reponsibility to fix that is affecting his business.


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## DARICK (18 Aug 2011)

The tenant has not given any reason whatsover, in fact when approached he went to gardai and made false accusations of harrasment.

To simply put it this person is playing the system and im suffering.

There has been no reason given.


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## Bronte (26 Aug 2011)

It seems from the advice on this thread you have to weigh up the costs of it taking time, loss of rent and legal fees of legal eviction with the costs, possible fine from the courts of doing it the throw out on the street way.  

I know of one case like this and it took 2 years to get the tenant out, a desperate man to deal with and know all the tricks and laughted all the way to the bank while earning money and is still in business today no doubt doing it to other landlords.

I wonder would a picket outside the premises to state the tenant had not paid any rent in 6 months do the trick.


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## Brumel (9 Jul 2012)

I'm in a similar position, co-own a small retail unit in town.
Original tenant decided to sub-let to one of his friends, but never informed us.
Now sub-let is in 11k in arrears in rent, 2,500 in unpaid ground rates, and 845 in unpaid building service charges. Had to engage a solicitor who specialises in this field, but charges 180 euros per hour. 
Sub-let tenant is getting serviced papers this week, hopefully he will move on.
Then we are chasing original tenant for all arrears plus costs.


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## mercman (9 Jul 2012)

On the basis that the sub-letting was done without your authorisation, surely you would be better off serving the papers on the original tenant. The original are in breach of lease and you have them over a number of issues. Act tough and make them pay IMO. 
You might be best to advise them that all legals fees are for their account.


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## Brumel (10 Jul 2012)

Problem is the original tenant is a foreign national and has disappeared, so our options are extremely limited. From what I can gather these guys are well versed in this excercise, and I would assume have done it before either in Ireland or another EU country.
We are now forced to recognised our sub-tenant, and have given him the option to vacate and we will swallow rent, building service charges and ground rent owed. Otherwise its going to be a costly court case to engage these indiviuals and get them evicited.
Seems to me this areas is wide open to abused, and needs to be tightened up. We did everything by the book and set up lease with solicitor only to be railroaded by these crooks.


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## mercman (10 Jul 2012)

Welcome to my world !! Why don't you and your business partner evict the present tenants from the property yourselves. I mean by this, simply enter the property in closed hours and change the locks. If there is stock there give it back to the sub-tenant, otherwise you have your property back and are then able to get on with your lives.


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## Brumel (10 Jul 2012)

My brother and myself have engaged a solicitor who specialises in tenant/landlord contracts and disputes. He recommended under no circumstances should we change the locks or participate in a forceful entry. Outcome would be more likely sub-tenant would then bring us to court. Best playing it safe and suck up short term pain....


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## mercman (10 Jul 2012)

There is a legitimate way of regaining entry to the property which was given to me a number of years ago by one of the top solicitors in the country. It can be done but there are rules and ways of doing it.


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## Brumel (10 Jul 2012)

Yes, I'm aware of it,  'peaceable re-entry' clause.
We are seving a section 14 *Section 14*(1) of the *Conveyancing Act 1881*, hopefully today on his solicitors.
Peaceable Re-entry:
If the landlord serves a forfeiture notice on the tenant at the leased premises and at the tenant's registered office (if it has one), and the breach is not remedied within the time specified in the notice, then the landlord is entitled to take possession of the premises. If the landlord is entitled to do this, re-entry must be affected peaceably. To effect peaceable re-entry, regard must be had to such issues as timing (e.g. whether it should be by day or by night), whether keys are available and so on. In the event that the landlord encounters resistance by the tenant during an attempt to re-enter, the attempt must be abandoned.
If the landlord's re-entry is successful, it is likely that the tenant's possessions/stock will remain on the premises. In this event, it is vital importance that a detailed inventory of all remaining items on the premises be prepared and a letter written to the tenant advising it that its belongings will be held for a specified period and stating the action which the landlord will take should they not be collected within the specified timeframe.Peaceable Re-entry
If the landlord serves a forfeiture notice on the tenant at the leased premises and at the tenant's registered office (if it has one), and the breach is not remedied within the time specified in the notice, then the landlord is entitled to take possession of the premises. If the landlord is entitled to do this, re-entry must be affected peaceably. To effect peaceable re-entry, regard must be had to such issues as timing (e.g. whether it should be by day or by night), whether keys are available and so on. In the event that the landlord encounters resistance by the tenant during an attempt to re-enter, the attempt must be abandoned.
If the landlord's re-entry is successful, it is likely that the tenant's possessions/stock will remain on the premises. In this event, it is vital importance that a detailed inventory of all remaining items on the premises be prepared and a letter written to the tenant advising it that its belongings will be held for a specified period and stating the action which the landlord will take should they not be collected within the specified timeframe.


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## mercman (10 Jul 2012)

Well, all I might say on the information offered, is go for it. Tenants nowadays feel that they can abuse landlords at their best efforts. Throw them out, sort out the property and depending where it is, you might be able to relet the property. What you are going through is no different from what all landlords are gpoing through at the moment. Unfortunately you seem to have become involved with a lkoad of chancers who know the law better then the law itself. If reentering the property, make sure the Gardai are been kept aware of your ongoings and bring a decent locksmith with you.


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## Brumel (11 Jul 2012)

ok legal papers were served on my (foreign national) sub-tenant solicitors yesterday, giving them till end of July to vacate.
Will be interesting to see what he decides to do, he may very well stay till he we get a court appointment, and as he knows the courts are closed for the summer that facilitates racking up more unpaid rent.
From what I've been told thses guys are very well versed in this, and know all the system inside out.
They likely will trade right up to the night before the court date, then vanish and start again with another premises and landlord.
We are now left with unpaid rent, ground rates, and building service charges, plus legal costs.
So much for our legal system and us playing by the book, and doing every thing legal.


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## Clohass (13 Aug 2012)

Brumel said:


> ok legal papers were served on my (foreign national) sub-tenant solicitors yesterday, giving them till end of July to vacate.
> Will be interesting to see what he decides to do, he may very well stay till he we get a court appointment, and as he knows the courts are closed for the summer that facilitates racking up more unpaid rent.
> From what I've been told thses guys are very well versed in this, and know all the system inside out.
> They likely will trade right up to the night before the court date, then vanish and start again with another premises and landlord.
> ...



Hi Brumel
Just wanted to check if you got sorted on this and have your premises back. I have been following this thread with interest. Also can you subsequently sue for the money you are owed once you regain possession or do you feel there is any point?


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## Brumel (15 Aug 2012)

Hi Clonasss,
Here is the update, tenant was served with paper to vacate my premises by end of July, these were all ignored.
He has not paid rent since Jan 2012, also owes building service charges, rates, water etc... and has stung several food suppliers for money.
Recently he was shut down by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI), but is still holding possession of my unit, and is trying to illegally sub-let it.
We are hitting him and property web-sites with a legal injunction to stop him/them from advertising my unit.
This guy uses various names - a total fraudster, I now had to engage a solicitor and Barrister with intent on filing for the circuit court in Oct, and will also be following up with Dublin City Sheriff for re-possession and eviction.
In the mean time I am liable for his outstanding rates, water, building service charges  etc... and unlikely will recover any money back etc... 
He no doubt is very well versed in this, and has plenty of experience playing the system, likely he has any assets of value in his partners name.
He lives with his girlfriend and her child, mean while she claims the dole for lone parent and housing, all courtesy of social welfare, sure its a great little country we live in....
Never never again would I rent out to a foreign national, better working with the devil you know.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Aug 2012)

In fairness we have home grown fraudsters just as experienced in working the system. 

The problem is the system is very unbalanced against Landlords these days.


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## Brumel (15 Aug 2012)

That a fair comment... and you are right there are plenty here milking the system.
At least though from a landlords perspective it might be easier to check an Irish nationals references, credit history, business history and with the country being so small you are bound to encounter someone who knows them.


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## Brumel (15 Aug 2012)

Just finished a meeting with Social Welfare fraud investigators they are taking a interests in this guy and his partner. Social Welfare fraud investigators work closely with Revenue, GNIB gardai unit which deals with foreign nationals.
All I will say is there is more than one way to skin a cat....


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## AlbacoreA (15 Aug 2012)

I think you'll find someone practised as fraud will be able to easily fake all the references, and persuade gullible people to give them references. They spend all their time trying to do this, where as everyone else spends a fraction of that trying to avoid/catch them.


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## Clohass (16 Aug 2012)

Hi Brumel and tks for the update. I was hoping you had managed to get the matter resolved by now but it does sound like the law is inadquate in this regard. Did you try to gain peaceful possession and change the locks after serving notice?

I hope you get this resolved soon as it must be causing you untold stress and grief.


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## mercman (16 Aug 2012)

OP, this episode is now going on for one year. Why don't you take possession of the property and show these kind of time wasters who owns the property and who is boss !!


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## Bronte (17 Aug 2012)

Brumel said:


> Never never again would I rent out to a foreign national, better working with the devil you know.


 
The case I mentioned earlier the tenant was Irish, is still in business and the landlord was a foreign national, Indian if I remember correctly.  

Brumel, it would be interesting to know how much you are out of pocket and compare that to how much it would have cost you if you'd illegally evicted them?  

Also how come you didn't do the 'peaceable re-entry' route?


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## Brumel (17 Aug 2012)

Hi I'm out of pocket 15k and rising daily, that does not include my legal fees.
On legal advise I was told under no circumstances follow the 'peaceable re-entry' route, my solicitor specialises in tenant/landlord law, I must ask him why not.
My tenant (by default) is now trying to sub-let my premises on some of the web-based property sites, this guy is a total fraudster.
I've established he uses 5 different names on accounts ie. water, rates, gas, electricity etc..
Now he is under investigation by Social Welfare, GNIB (Gardai), Revenue, and has a pending court case with me.


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## Brumel (17 Aug 2012)

What have other commercial landlords done in relation to recovering debt, and pursuing these type of tenants. 
Are there any state bodies you can contact to register these fraud tenants? 
I'm now like a dog with a bone, have already been in contact with SW, Gardai, Revenue, have I missing any?
This guy have already told me he plans to open another cafe, and will likely do the same to another landlord.


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## mercman (17 Aug 2012)

Brumel said:


> This guy have already told me he plans to open another cafe, and will likely do the same to another landlord.



All you will be able to do is keep track on him carefully, advise a future landlord and his suppliers. Otherwise walk away and be more careful that any new tenant conforms to the terms of the lease. I've given you the best opinion I could as a landlord. I really would love to know the reason why your own brief says NO to re-entering your own property. It looks like you are not going to get a cent from your tenant so ask your brief for a definite reason. Remember you're paying him and he should be able to offer you an opinion as to why he said NO.


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