# Renegotiate price after engineer's report



## misterchuck (14 Jul 2010)

Hi,
First post for me. 

Our offer on a house was accepted. Since then an engineer has looked at the property and has advised that the drains need replacing and one or two other jobs need doing also. He gave the figure of 20k. 
Now, not being too au fait with house buying and negotiating - I am looking for advice what to do.

I don't want to get vendor's back up and cause them to pull out of deal, but how should I proceed?
Thanks


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## misterchuck (14 Jul 2010)

anybody?


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## lionstour (14 Jul 2010)

Tell the vendor that based on the report you are reducting the offer by 20,000. Simple as. No discussion. Let them put the house back on the market and take their chances if they like. Be firm. Dont even think of any other option. Trust me.


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## misterchuck (14 Jul 2010)

Thanks.


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## misterchuck (15 Jul 2010)

Would this be a normal occurrence when buying a house? 
Do the vendors usually oblige? 
If they pulled out of sale (do people think they would pull out?) - would the estate agent have to make it known to the next potential buyer that there is an estimated 20k needed to be done to house? 
How do estate agents normally play this? Do they try to get the vendors to do the work - or do they force the original agreed price on the buyer?

Am new to all this as you can see.

Thanks!


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## liger79 (15 Jul 2010)

I know a couple selling their house and when the surveyor came out there was a problem with the drains. The seller agreed to get the problem fixed, done the work and got it certified. Two weeks later the Buyer pulled out of the deal anyway.


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## misterchuck (15 Jul 2010)

liger79 said:


> I know a couple selling their house and when the surveyor came out there was a problem with the drains. The seller agreed to get the problem fixed, done the work and got it certified. Two weeks later the Buyer pulled out of the deal anyway.



Well - we are committed to the house. Hopefully they will agree to the work and all can go according to plan.

thanks for posting.


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## hfp (15 Jul 2010)

depends how much of a hurry the seller is in to sell.  if they pulled out of your sale, they would then have the problem of finding a new buyer, who if they have any sense would get their own survey done, and would then be in the same position you are in.  it would create a lot of uncertainty for the seller if they wanted to sell any time soon.


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## misterchuck (15 Jul 2010)

so you think they will oblige. I mean they have a commited buyer - why risk that, especially in today's market?

thanks


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## lionstour (15 Jul 2010)

misterchuck said:


> so you think they will oblige. I mean they have a commited buyer - why risk that, especially in today's market?
> 
> thanks


 
You use words like oblige as if they are doing you a favour.  IN this market you are doing them a favour by taking it off thier hands. If I am being honest your crazy to even think about buying now


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## misterchuck (15 Jul 2010)

I dont see it as being crazy - have been looking for a house in this location for a long time. the price is good and the time is right. I am not an investor buying just to make a profit. This will be family home - not a house. 
I realise they need me more than I need them though and will play it accordingly. 
Thanks for post.


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## dereko1969 (16 Jul 2010)

You can mention the engineers report to the Estate Agent but it's impossible to know how the vendor will react.

How old is the house? If it's very old then some issues will always arise and the EA may say well that's factored into the price you're not buying a new house etc

Do the issues raised by the Engineer need immediate rectification? Can you live there without addressing them? You've got to remember the Engineer is working for you and will probably raise every single issue possible in order to help you to reduce your bid, the EA will state that the issues raised are not essential but optional works.

I'd mention it to the EA and tell them you're reconsidering your bid but that you'd be prepared to meet the vendors halfway. Also an important point to consider is were you in a bidding war or were you the only bidders? Did you have your first bid accepted or did you have to increase it a lot? If you were the only bidders that will help your case.


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## misterchuck (16 Jul 2010)

there may have been another bidder i am not sure - the two times i rang to find out about my bid - the EA said he was just off phone from other bidder who had only just now increased bid. 
Thing is that now the bank's guy say the house is valued at about 10% less than my offer - which means my bank wont give me the mrogtage they were going to give.
the dilemma gets muddier. 
I know there are many other houses out there. but still this has everthing - detached house with garage to the side - near swimming pool and schools and only 10 min walk to work for me.


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## lionstour (16 Jul 2010)

misterchuck said:


> there may have been another bidder i am not sure - the two times i rang to find out about my bid - the EA said he was just off phone from other bidder who had only just now increased bid.
> Thing is that now the bank's guy say the house is valued at about 10% less than my offer - which means my bank wont give me the mrogtage they were going to give.
> the dilemma gets muddier.
> I know there are many other houses out there. but still this has everthing - detached house with garage to the side - near swimming pool and schools and only 10 min walk to work for me.



IN todays market you are one of the few genuine buyers.  Just put this info to the vendor give them 3 days to accept or reject new bid and then move on.  There will always be another perfect house


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## misterchuck (16 Jul 2010)

lionstour said:


> IN todays market you are one of the few genuine buyers.  Just put this info to the vendor give them 3 days to accept or reject new bid and then move on.  There will always be another perfect house



Ya, I guess that is the way to look at it. 

A question though - is it becoming much more common that banks are valuing properties much under the agreed price?

And I guess it will only continue for the foreseeable future.


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## Complainer (16 Jul 2010)

misterchuck said:


> and only 10 min walk to work for me.


This is a huge benefit. I don't think it is a simple as some of the macho advice that you're getting on this thread.

Like most things in life, it is a matter of negotiation. If you are the only buyer, then they have a problem. If there are other buyers, then you have a problem.


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## misterchuck (16 Jul 2010)

True! I have the feeling that there was a phantom bidder (impossible to prove I know)...
But wouldn't another bidder find themselves in the same predicament?


Another question - would it be uncommon for valuers to have very different valuations - i mean could another come in and value it at 10% more than the other guy?


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## PaddyBloggit (16 Jul 2010)

misterchuck said:


> there may have been another bidder i am not sure - the two times i rang to find out about my bid - the EA said he was just off phone from other bidder who had only just now increased bid.



I reckon you're being bluffed by the EA.

Make your offer, based on your bank's valuation, allow for the €20k work that needs to be done ....

Tell them it's your final offer, give them a deadline .... and move on!

Plenty more places out there that are detached with garage to the side - near swimming pool and schools. Might be more than 10 mins walk from work but a small compromise.


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## misterchuck (17 Jul 2010)

Will keep ye posted how it pans out. Would love house - but have to be realistic - market is what it is at the moment.


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## lionstour (17 Jul 2010)

Complainer said:


> This is a huge benefit. I don't think it is a simple as some of the macho advice that you're getting on this thread.
> 
> Like most things in life, it is a matter of negotiation. If you are the only buyer, then they have a problem. If there are other buyers, then you have a problem.


 
I assume your refering to my advice. Look at the evidence.

1. The house needs 20 grand work done. 

2. The Irish property market has been in freefall over the last 3 years with no sign of stopping.

3.  the bank has already valued it 10 grand under his original bid

4.  The estate agent has other bidders for the same house?  Must be a pretty special house (Needing modernisation)

I aggree living close to work is a bonus. But there will beother houses close to his work.


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## lionstour (17 Jul 2010)

Complainer said:


> If you are the only buyer, then they have a problem. If there are other buyers, then you have a problem.


 
Wow what an insight


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## misterchuck (18 Jul 2010)

10% under agreed offer by bank's valuer. 
house needs drains replaced - heating upgrading - but otherwise is in very good condition.

tomorrow speak to EA


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## ciano6 (19 Jul 2010)

okay OP, people have helped me before here, and I may be able to help someone for a change.
we sold our house this year.  when it came to the engineers report of the purchaser, it showed that the drains needed to be replaced.  in fact, it was slightly more complicated because one of the drains ran under the kitchen and we needed to have some underpinning done to that as well.
we could have claimed this under our insurance, but at the moment (post floods/big freeze etc) we were told by insurance company that the claim would take up to a year to process. so we decided to bite the bullet and pay for the work ourselves.  i guess it was a gamble, because the buyer did not enter a legally binding contract (we would have preferred that).  but we decided we had to do it as we could not sell it to anyone else in the future knowing that this work needed to be done and could lead to structural damage if we didn't rectify it.  evidence of the problem existed previously ( a crack) and it was interesting two that of the three estate agents we spoke with before selling, two suggested covering up the crack!!!  We went with the third because he seemed the fairest in every way anyway.
So next began the most interesting exercise of my life.  I know nothing of the construction industry.  We spoke to the 5 main ground engineering contractors in our area.  Quoted prices varied form €11,000 to €45,000.  3 out of the 5 suggested (2 strongly) that the best thing was to effectively falsify an insurance claim.  Those same three gave one price for insurance claim and one price if we paid ourselves.  One of the 5 gave one price for cheque and one price for cash.  Given the current climate they were all willing to start the following week.
Anyway, we went with the €11,000.  We also got an engineer to supervise.   That was the wisest thing we ever did, as the contractor was only interested in cutting corners.  
In the end, the work took two weeks, the purchaser was happy but did two more drains tests as she was entitled to do.  Thankfully the sale went through.
So to answer your question, why not get the vendors to do the job on the house and if you feel you don't want to lose the house, get in a legally binding contract for both parties conditional on the work being done to the satisfaction of both your engineer and theirs.  
If they are like us, they will be just happy to sell, they will want to do a fair job (we didn't want this young girl buying a pup) and everyone will be happy in the end.  We took the hit and have pretty much forgotten about it now.  Life goes on...


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## Complainer (19 Jul 2010)

Think about what value you place on your own time. If the alternative commute is (for example) 25 minutes each way, you would be saving a half-hour (2 x [25-10]) each day, or about 100 hours each year. If you value your time at €10 an hour, just over the minimum wage level, this is worth €10k per annum. If it gives you an extra half-hour each day with the kids, then it is priceless.


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## misterchuck (19 Jul 2010)

Ciano6 and complainer - THANKS for that! 

Spoke with EA - he has put news to the vendor - should get word either way in next few days. 
Thanks - v helpful advice here.


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## Draoighonta (25 Jul 2010)

When we bought our current house ,we got a full structural survey done.
We got a quote of 10k for the work and asked the sellers to split it with us so 5k each and due to the work being essential they agreed.


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## stargirl01 (26 Jul 2010)

Do you have the 20k saved to do the work as it shall not be included in your mortgage?


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## misterchuck (2 Aug 2010)

stargirl01 said:


> Do you have the 20k saved to do the work as it shall not be included in your mortgage?



Deal fell through. Back on market. 
Disappointed.


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## mayoman2 (2 Aug 2010)

Misterchuck,

could be a little game with them and EA, as william wallace in braveheart said "Hold Hold" with the arrows pointed!!! There are loads of properties and this crew have to be aware of the current situation in housing market, so its not over yet. Leave it a week or so and see does the EA come back. Play it cool and start looking for more properties and keep your options open, maybe even look at another property on the EA books, let him think you have moved on and now he could loose you.


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## lionstour (4 Aug 2010)

mayoman2 said:


> Misterchuck,
> 
> could be a little game with them and EA, as william wallace in braveheart said "Hold Hold" with the arrows pointed!!! There are loads of properties and this crew have to be aware of the current situation in housing market, so its not over yet. Leave it a week or so and see does the EA come back. Play it cool and start looking for more properties and keep your options open, maybe even look at another property on the EA books, let him think you have moved on and now he could loose you.


 

I dont think the estate agent gives a dam what house the guy buys as long as it from him.


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## mayoman2 (5 Aug 2010)

lionstour said:


> I dont think the estate agent gives a dam what house the guy buys as long as it from him.


 
Yes Tommy Joe but he lost the last sale so it is not looking good for EA. Go into EA looking at another house and fill EA with as much detail as he would fill you! say something along the lines of " I am looking at another house in Tommy Joe's area and I prefer it, pity about that other house I was looking at, but sure what's for ya won't pass ya, you know"!!!


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## MrMan (6 Aug 2010)

I think running with the viewpoint that you are doing a vendor a favour by bidding is dangerous as people sell for very different reasons. As the house is older there is also most likely a fair degree of attachment and when people assume that a vendor wants to jump ship they forget that these people are selling their home and that they also need  x amount to buy their next house.


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## misterchuck (6 Aug 2010)

Deal dead in the water for now. 
Trying to summarise here the past few weeks.

Had agreed a price for house and was happy to pay it. Had loan in place. A week from agreeing price - engineer went in. His report stated it needed about 20k work. Bank of Ireland valuer stated house was worth 10% less than agreed price. 
Tried to renegotiate with vendor through EA. Was firm on my stand. House was worth banks valuation and I was only willing to pay that. The vendor would not suggest a compromise price. I was willing to go a little higher than BOI valuation, but not go back to original price.  I told them to go back to underbidder and see find out if he was interested still- but was told he was 'gone'.  A surprise! 
Vendor refused to budge. Deposit was refunded and house is back on market. 
Vendor is naiive and arrogant in my opinion. EA insists he wants to sell only for the price we agreed on. Let him at put it back on the market I told him. 
And there we have it - what an ordeal! 

Hopefully we will find another 'dream' house.


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## misterchuck (6 Aug 2010)

On another note to this - this is what we are finding when we are viewing and bidding on houses (we have bid on 3 so far).

Ring up auctioneer and enquire about a house. No offer on it yet we are told. We arrange a viewing - arrive at viewing and told there has just been an offer on the house. 
Arrange a second viewing and a higher bid has come on house. Bid on house and hey presto a counter bid comes in straight after that. 
This happen in the three houses we bid on. Two were with an estate agent well known countrywide. 
Coincidence - I think not.


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## mayoman2 (6 Aug 2010)

MrMan said:


> I think running with the viewpoint that you are doing a vendor a favour by bidding is dangerous as people sell for very different reasons. As the house is older there is also most likely a fair degree of attachment and when people assume that a vendor wants to jump ship they forget that these people are selling their home and that they also need x amount to buy their next house.


 
I am not on about bidding, I am on about keeping your options open and not been sucked in by anyone. There is no love affair here, why would a buyer give 2 flying f about a vender. If they though so much about the house why are they selling it. The op has given some real comments above, but this aul love tripe is what ea like to fill you with.

OP keep the head man, i've seen ea come back two months later to ask will you buy the house now. You dont hear these comments floating around only "oh we have a new bidder and he is prettier than u, so I love him more but will u love me more now and give me 5 k more"

If any gob is in the real world, houses are not moving and they are only going one way IMO


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