# Estate Agents Responsibility: Tenant has not paid rent in 3mo.



## KAZZA (30 Jan 2008)

Hi,

Have rented out my apartment and having problems with my tenant. 

She has broken contract as she has failed to pay rent on time for 3 months and this month has failed to pay at all and is now refusing to leave the apartment. 

I originally paid the estate agent €1000 to look after the property and now when I need them to do something they are telling me there is nothing they can do to get her out of the apartment. They told me if she didn't leave one week after i served her with an eviction order that the guards would be called and would act as baliffs. 

The guards were called and the tenant told them she would leave when she had somewhere else to live!! ( she hasn't paid any rent this month!! ) 

The guards said it was up to the estate agent to get rid of her but when I ring them they say there is nothing they can do and are not doing anything to help me.

Would appreciate if anybody can help me?


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## SNOWBALL (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

are you registered with the prtb?


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## KAZZA (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Unfortunately not. Do you know what I can do next?


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

What is the nature of the contract with the _EA_? What specific services are they supposed to provide for the fee paid? The _Gardai _will not intervene in a civil matter like this. You may need professional legal advice.

You are presumably in breach of the law in not being registered with the _PRTB_. This also means that you cannot claim certain tax relief (setting interest against rental income).


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## KAZZA (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

The guards told me the EA are responsible for evicting the tenent. They were paid the fee so I would presume they were responsible for the tenent. They found the tenent so would they not be responsible for getting rid of the tenent. They also wrote to the tenent telling them if they hadn't paid the rent in full they had to leave the apartment so they have done that much but now that the tenent is not paying they seem to be walking away from the situation.


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## Stifster (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

How long is the tenant in the property?

Ultimately, a long way down the line, the gardai might be involved if the sheriff couldn't get her out.

The EA should be doing the paperwork on your behalf subject to the terms of any contract you signed with them.

and register with the prtb immediately.


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## bacchus (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



KAZZA said:


> Unfortunately not. Do you know what I can do next?


 
Not too late to register with PRTB.. Any particular reason why you did not register tennacy at the first place?

I think you may be on your own now, and your only route seems to be a costly legal one...
I doubt very much that EA could be liable for unpaid rent. TBH, it would be daft of them not to include a clause to that effect in their contract.


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## mathepac (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



KAZZA said:


> The guards told me the EA are responsible for evicting the tenent. They were paid the fee so I would presume they were responsible for the tenent. They found the tenent so would they not be responsible for getting rid of the tenent. They also wrote to the tenent telling them if they hadn't paid the rent in full they had to leave the apartment so they have done that much but now that the tenent is not paying they seem to be walking away from the situation.


Neither the Guards, your presumptions or our speculation here can clarify who is responsible for what. As previous poster has asked, what is the nature of your contract with the EA? This, combined with the letting agreement, defines the roles and responsibilities of the various parties. Ultimately as has been already said, in the absence of a court order, the Guards have no role to play.


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## SNOWBALL (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

HI,

Dont think it will help to join the prtb now, I dont think a letting agent is suppose to help out and get rid of a tenant.They will get you a tenant and if the tenant rings about things such as bins, looking for hoover etc they will in turn ring you.That is the way i have found it and i have a few let out.maybe ring the prtb explain your case.Unfortunately there are people out there who dont care that you a mortgage to pay.I hope you can sort it out.An extreme measure is to wait change the locks and move yourself in!!


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## csirl (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



> the Guards have no role to play.


 
Tresspass is now a criminal offence, and so is the responsibility of the Gardai.

However, as previous posters have said, without knowing what is contained in the lease and the roles of the various parties, it is difficult to determine who's responsible for the eviction, what the lease says regards eviction/non payemtn of rent etc, as without a legal eviction, you cannot claim that the person is tresspassing (which is why the Gardai probably didnt want to get involved at this stage).


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## KAZZA (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

The EA got involved to the point of sending out an eviction notice and then told me if the tenent didn't move out the guards would be called and would evict her and would be baliffs. Am I to assume that the EA doesn't know what she is talking about or just doesn't want to be involved anymore as its too much hassle for them. A contract was drawn up between all the parties and as far as I am concerned they should have to take some responsibility as they have already been paid.


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## SNOWBALL (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

I can understand your frustration but i can see how the estate agents are to blame.They got you a tenant who unfortunately has decided for some reason not to pay the rent.Have you tried ringing the tenant or even sending a registered letter?. i would seek legal advice as you are not covered by the prtb.


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## PatriciaFox (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Its not easy to get someone out, even if they're not paying rent. It can take alot more than a letter from an EA.

Someone I know has had a non paying tenant for the last 10 months and has been waiting months for the PRTB to hear the case. He's still waiting for a date while paying the mortgage of the rental and his own place. 

I think once the PRTB hears the case and assuming the decision is his favour, if the tenant doesn't comply at that stage a court eviction order can be requested and the sheriff can become involved, but that could be months from now for him.

Get on to your solicitor for advise asap


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



PatriciaFox said:


> I think once the PRTB hears the case and assuming the decision is his favour...


The landlord in this case did not comply with the law by registering with the _PRTB_!


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## PatriciaFox (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



ClubMan said:


> The landlord in this case did not comply with the law by registering with the _PRTB_!



Neither did the person I was on about. They subsequently registered and the PRTB will handle their case (possibly why they're waiting so long!).


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## FKH (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Has the tenant given any reasons as to why they have not paid the rent? If I was in that situation I would consider entering the premises while vacant and changing the locks. It's obviously illegal but would certainly force the tenant to have to take some steps rather than simply do nothing.


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## csirl (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

I'd imagine most PRTB cases involve tenants who have been in situ a while. 

http://www.prtb.ie/act.htm

There are some information leaflets on the PRTB that may help the OP.


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## Stifster (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Failure to register with the PRTB doesn't cancel out the breach by the tenant and can be remedied (whatever about the tenants right to claim tax relief for the unregistered period.) 

Registering late shouldn't affect the time it takes to get a hearing, they are just really, really, REALLY slow.

Changing the locks is a very risky, if seemingly attractive alternative. It tends to used in commercial cases and even then the right of the landlord to do so is limited.


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



Stifster said:


> Failure to register with the PRTB doesn't cancel out the breach by the tenant and can be remedied (whatever about the tenants right to claim tax relief for the unregistered period.)


I didn't think that the landlord's failure to register with the _PRTB _impacted the tenant's ability to claim the rented accommodation tax credit whatever about the landlord's ability to write off mortgage interest against rental income?


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## KAZZA (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Thanks for all the replies and information. I am going up to meet her tonight and see if i can reason with her. Social welfare is supposed to be paying her rent and she is obviously not using the money to pay the rent so I dont know if I can go down that road or not.
Been on to the solicitor and I can either go down the legal route which will be costly and could take up to months or just wait on her to go when ever she feels like it!! They said the EA or the guards can do nothing.
This country and the law is a complete joke!!


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## mf1 (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

"This country and the law is a complete joke!!"

Ah now, I don't think thats very fair. Property ownership is just like business - there are up sides and down sides and you need to weigh that up when deciding to be a landlord. Some landlords are lucky and never have any problems and some just have loads of problems because dealing with the public ( i.e. tenants) brings all kind of problems. 

mf


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## MrMan (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



> Thanks for all the replies and information. I am going up to meet her tonight and see if i can reason with her. Social welfare is supposed to be paying her rent and she is obviously not using the money to pay the rent so I dont know if I can go down that road or not.
> Been on to the solicitor and I can either go down the legal route which will be costly and could take up to months or just wait on her to go when ever she feels like it!! They said the EA or the guards can do nothing.
> This country and the law is a complete joke!!


The fact she is on welfare is a bonus. Contact her welfare officer and inform them of your circumstances. Get your EA to detail everything that has happened in writing and send it to the welfare officer and cc a copy to your local representative, highlighting the waste of public money etc. Make sure you see a copy first. If your agent is on a managed contract then they should be dealing with it, but for your own sake I would follow everything up. I would also phone your most pro active representative and make a big fuss about public spending yadda yadda


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## sandymount (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



mf1 said:


> "This country and the law is a complete joke!!"
> 
> Ah now, I don't think thats very fair. Property ownership is just like business - there are up sides and down sides and you need to weigh that up when deciding to be a landlord. Some landlords are lucky and never have any problems and some just have loads of problems because dealing with the public ( i.e. tenants) brings all kind of problems.
> 
> mf



[SIZE=-1]"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone*"
*
It's hard to have much sympathy when you too are a law breaker. [/SIZE]


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## mathepac (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



KAZZA said:


> ...This country and the law is a complete joke!!





What's that Your Honour? The law is it Your Honour? Ah shure isn't the law a grand thing for them as can afford it or need it Your Honour and shure where would a poor creature like myself be going with the law Your Honour, begging Your Honour's pardon, Your Honour.

The law, Your Honour is for them that's lucky enough to be gentrified Your Honour, much like Your Honour's good self, if I may be so bold as to suggest it Your Honour.

Until I have great need of it, Your Honour, God between us and all harm, I'd be thinking meself and the law would not be bosom companions, in this life at any rate, Your Honour.


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## Maread (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*

Kazza

How about moving back into the apartment yourself into the spare room, (or the living room), which you would surely be entitled to do, or get a mate to do so.  Living with a stranger might drive her out quickly.

Also you could bring the Estate Agents to the Small Claims Court for repayment of any fees you've paid them as they obviously have not fulfilled their part of the contract.


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## ajapale (30 Jan 2008)

moved from  Askaboutlaw to Property Investment which is where this type of question has been dealt with in the past.



Maread said:


> Also you could bring the Estate Agents to the Small Claims Court


 No I dont think you have recourse to the Small Claims Court in this instance.


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



sandymount said:


> [SIZE=-1]"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone*"
> *
> It's hard to have much sympathy when you too are a law breaker. [/SIZE]


Why are you directing those comments at _mf1_?!


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## shesells (30 Jan 2008)

Again the issue here is whether you paid for a letting service or a letting and management service. For the fee you paid I'd guess it was letting only - and I'm surprised you ended up with a SW tenant if you did use an agency, although for them it's probably the easiest option to recommend.

It's really important to read the details of the agreement with the agent, you don't always get what you think you're paying for.


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

> Also you could bring the Estate Agents to the Small Claims Court for repayment of any fees you've paid them as they obviously have not fulfilled their part of the contract.


That judgement can't be made until we know what actual contract existed.



> and I'm surprised you ended up with a SW tenant if you did use an agency, although for them it's probably the easiest option to recommend.



An SW tenant isn't necessarily worse than any other. Regarding the easy option it depends on the area being rented, it may have been the only option.


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## KAZZA (31 Jan 2008)

Mf. 

How can you say that? At the end of the day I own the property, Im paying a mortgage on it so surely what i say goes. Her contract is up, she breeched her contract, yet she is still living in my property. That also means the rent she is supposed to be paying me from the social welfare is being used for her own personal use!!
Thats what your tax money is being spent on!! U happy with that? We would all love not to have to pay our mortgage but unfortunetly we dont have that luxury. Its bad enough the government is paying most of the mortgage... I dont get any help like that from the government but I still have to manage!!


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

> I think mf was just saying business is business and this is a hiccup that was unforunate to befall you. I wouldn't start preaching about taxes considering the 3 month lapse without registering with the prtb.


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## Stifster (31 Jan 2008)

*Re: Estate Agents Responsibility*



			
				stifster said:
			
		

> (whatever about the *tenants* right to claim tax relief for the unregistered period.)


 


ClubMan said:


> I didn't think that the landlord's failure to register with the _PRTB _impacted the tenant's ability to claim the rented accommodation tax credit whatever about the landlord's ability to write off mortgage interest against rental income?


 


My typo...should have been "landlords".


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## KAZZA (31 Jan 2008)

Mrman,

Dont need a lecture. Its information Im looking for! Even if i was registered if doesnt seem that they would be much help to me either.
The bottom line in all of this is if this happens to you.... you are on your own!!  You have been warned....


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

> Dont need a lecture. Its information Im looking for! Even if i was registered if doesnt seem that they would be much help to me either.
> The bottom line in all of this is if this happens to you.... you are on your own!! You have been warned....



Wasn't a lecture but something you might want to pay heed to if you intend on staying on the right side of the law. The prtb isn't simply there to help you when the cash has stopped flowing, your obligation is to pay your taxes like the rest of us. And as alot of posts have pointed out you are not on your own there are remedies to this situation so hopefully you can resolve it. Just don't sit back and hope someone will do it for you.


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## truthseeker (31 Jan 2008)

Kazza - not going to pass judgement one way or another just relate facts to you.

A number of years ago a friend of mine was in the same situation as you. Tenants wouldnt pay rent, wouldnt leave, letting agency not interested, friend was not registered landlord.

Tenants ignored eviction notices. My friend ended up calling up to property to speak to tenant and got nowhere - also felt intimidated by tenants large 19 yr old son standing behind mammy glowering.

She went to guards and said 'i own a house in xxx. i am moving into it this weekend. tenants are refusing to leave and i feel intimidated.'
Guards said it was a civil matter but that they would call to property and ask tenants to leave.
Couple of hours later guards phoned my friend - said for her to go and get ready to move in and if tenants not out by 5pm friday they would help.
5pm friday tenants still there, guards arrive, tell them they have to leave. Some calls made, some cars show up, throws the belongings in and off they go - left the house in bits, was some cost on clean up and repairs -but they were out.

turned out neighbours had complained to guards on numerous occasions about noise, domestics, anti social behaviour etc from tenants so guards were happy to see back of the family off their watch as it were.


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## KAZZA (31 Jan 2008)

Im not expecting people to do this for me. Im well aware of the fact that I have to do this myself. All I was saying was I have paid an EA €1000 and I would of assumed the responsibility was with them until my contract was up with them and not for them to pick and choose what they want to do. By the way I do and have always paid my taxes and have never looked for handouts by the government like a lot of people do. Whether I am registered is not the issue here!
Thanks truthseeker. Looks like thats whats going to happen.


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

> By the way I do and have always paid my taxes and have never looked for handouts by the government like a lot of people do. Whether I am registered is not the issue here!



I'm not trying to rile you but you are missing the point. anyways is the EA being paid a managed fee. Even if they are not they should be making some financial returns to you and I wouldn't let that go either, €500 return would be reasonable.


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## Howitzer (31 Jan 2008)

KAZZA said:


> By the way I do and have always paid my taxes and have never looked for handouts by the government like a lot of people do. Whether I am registered is not the issue here!


My understanding was that in order to claim mortgage interest relief against rental income you hade to be registered with the PRTB. Maybe you're not aware of this but that is why everyone assumes you're not tax compliant when you say you haven't registered the tenancy.


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## mathepac (31 Jan 2008)

KAZZA said:


> ...All I was saying was I have paid an EA €1000 and I would of assumed the responsibility was with them until my contract was up with them and not for them to pick and choose what they want to do...


kazza, you are assuming again. It's been asked a few times in this thread, but here goes again; what does your contract with the EA state?


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## teachai (31 Jan 2008)

You should be able to get the social welfare to pay the rent directly into your bank account bypassing the tenant completely.

From what its worth as my experience of a landlord(admittedly in the UK), is that social welfare tenants should be avoided.


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## FKH (31 Jan 2008)

I'm actually in agreement with Kazza and feel quite sorry for the situation they are in as I wouldn't fancy having to pay two mortgages instead of one and risk defaulting.

Regardless of what the contract with the EA says it seems that they are washing their hands of the matter. There are usually two levels of service, the cheaper being finding a tenant & getting references etc and the second being a full management service including organizing cleaning, tradesmen etc. 

The suggestion to go to their welfare officer sounds like a good idea as presumably the Dept Social Welfare will prosecute them if they keep the rent money and don't use it for rent as it's technically social welfare fraud.


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## G7979 (31 Jan 2008)

As far as I know it is highly unusual for the DSW to pay the rent to a tenant, contact the dept or Social Worker and inform them that a) the money being given to the tenant is not being used to pay the rent (possible benefit fraud?) and b) give them your bank details and ask for the rent to be paid directly to you
Do you have definite confirmation that this person is receiving DSW payments? Or have you just her word for it? What about references, did you get any, does she work, or do you know where?

Also check www.IPOA.ie and consider registering with them, they may take your case, and as far as I know, it will not be as expensive as hiring a solicitor. Also register with the PRTB TODAY! Do not delay any further! 

I would not recommend changing the locks, I work as an EA and had a landlord how did this and ended up paying compensation to a tenant even when they owed the LL money, reason given by the PRTB was it was an illegal eviction.
The landlord tried to call a meeting with the PRTB and was told there was a 3-6 month waiting list, LL evicted the tenant by turning up at the door, putting them on the street and changing the locks, (tenant was 6 months in arrears) and was called to an “emergency” hearing within 48 hours.

Post any questions you might have, or feel free to PM me if you wish, one other thing, you don’t say if you hired the EA for a lettings only service or a full management service, it may have some bearing on why they seem reluctant to help you, or very simply their hands may be tied, it is very difficult to physically evict someone from a property if they don’t want to go.


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## aircobra19 (31 Jan 2008)

G7979 said:


> ....
> I would not recommend changing the locks, I work as an EA and had a landlord how did this and ended up paying compensation to a tenant even when they owed the LL money, reason given by the PRTB was it was an illegal eviction.
> The landlord tried to call a meeting with the PRTB and was told there was a 3-6 month waiting list, LL evicted the tenant by turning up at the door, putting them on the street and changing the locks, (tenant was 6 months in arrears) and was called to an “emergency” hearing within 48 hours....



Perhaps the landlord thought it was cheaper paying the compensation than having no rent for 6 months.

How can the PRTB enforce its decisions?


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

> As far as I know it is highly unusual for the DSW to pay the rent to a tenant



They do because it was found to be going against the tenants rights to bypass them!. You should make the agreement with any SW tenant before entering contract that the payment does bypass them straight to your account.


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## G7979 (31 Jan 2008)

To be honest I am not sure what lengths the PRTB can go to enforce their decision, you are quite right, the LL decided that it was best all round to take the hit, pay the compensation and be rid of the troublesome individual.

According to their website http://www.prtb.ie/DownloadDocs/Dispute%20Stages.doc
There are a couple of ways to go about this, mediation, arbitration and a tribunal hearing, once the board makes a determination order, if it is not adhered to they may seek enforcements through the courts, but as to how often this has happened, any outcomes from the courts, I’m afraid I don’t have any information on that.

There was talk at one stage of them re-instating the tenant; it was the LL’s primary objective to stop this happening so LL paid up. 

This is the one and only time I have had a “physical” eviction, in my three years in this position, I have done evictions but after a couple of stern letters they have left freely, albeit with bad grace and much grumbling!


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## G7979 (31 Jan 2008)

Re Mrman

This may not be the same for all DSW offices, but the one I deal with most frequently automatically asks the would be tenant for their landlords bank details, I am guessing they are only given the option if they ask for it, that could be a local "custom" though.


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## Ham Slicer (31 Jan 2008)

Landlord does not need to register the tenancy with PRTB as it's a SW tenant.


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## ClubMan (31 Jan 2008)

Ham Slicer said:


> Landlord does not need to register the tenancy with PRTB as it's a SW tenant.


True - but this only came to light one page into the thread.


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## mathepac (31 Jan 2008)

FKH said:


> ...The suggestion to go to their welfare officer sounds like a good idea as presumably the Dept Social Welfare will prosecute them if they keep the rent money and don't use it for rent as it's technically social welfare fraud.


I doubt very much whether a Social Welfare office would entertain this approach or engage in such a conversation; client confidentiality for a start and I'm sure other issues as well.


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## MrMan (1 Feb 2008)

> I doubt very much whether a Social Welfare office would entertain this approach or engage in such a conversation; client confidentiality for a start and I'm sure other issues as well.



Not so, it is easy enough to put pressure on them as you can go over their heads if they don't cooperate


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## G7979 (1 Feb 2008)

Ham Slicer said:


> Landlord does not need to register the tenancy with PRTB as it's a SW tenant.


 

Don't think thats true, see below from the webiste, as the landlord is a private landlord the tenancy does need to be registered, Although the last one might fit! 

*What dwellings are exempt from the tenancy registration system?*
 Business premises, even where partly residential

 A dwelling to which Part II of the Housing (Private Rented Dwellings) Act 1982 applies (i.e. formerly rent controlled dwelling occupied by the “original tenant” or his/her spouse) or to which Part II of the Landlord and Tenant (Amendment) Act 1980 applies (i.e. long occupation equity lease tenancies)

 A dwelling let by a local authority or voluntary housing body

 A dwelling occupied under a shared ownership lease

 A holiday let 

 A dwelling in which the landlord is also resident 

 A dwelling in which the spouse, parent or child of the landlord is resident and there is no written lease or tenancy agreement

 A dwelling that is occupied rent free


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## Stifster (1 Feb 2008)

mathepac said:


> I doubt very much whether a Social Welfare office would entertain this approach or engage in such a conversation; client confidentiality for a start and I'm sure other issues as well.


 
They are more than willing to talk to the landlord or his agents in my professional experience. After all the money that they are paying to the person is to pay the landlords rent so they have a relationship with the landlord too.

I have found them to be very helpful in providing details and information, in writing, where assistance was, shall we say, going astray.


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## mathepac (1 Feb 2008)

G7979 said:


> A dwelling that is occupied rent free


 Therefore OP's flat is exempt!


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## minion (2 Feb 2008)

You now see why Agents are such a waste of money.  They just gouge money out of you for nothing but putting an add on daft.ie.

My advice for what its worth is.

1 - Contact the DSW.  If they dont pay you directly at least get them to stop paying the tennant.

2 - If 1 fails go up to the house and squirt a tube of superglue into the lock when the tennant is out.  If the tennant calls you to fix it tell them you will when they pa the rent.  If the pay to get the locks fixed themselves , do it again ... and so on.

3 - After all is said and done stay away from agents for ever more.

4 - Carry your losses forward against tax for as many years as it takes to recover.


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## MrMan (4 Feb 2008)

> You now see why Agents are such a waste of money. They just gouge money out of you for nothing but putting an add on daft.ie.



We still don't know if it was a managed letting or not, and the presumption would be that it was not, in which case the agents function would cease once tenant was insitu.


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## minion (4 Feb 2008)

MrMan said:


> We still don't know if it was a managed letting or not, and the presumption would be that it was not, in which case the agents function would cease once tenant was insitu.




If it wasnt a managed letting then as i said, the agent put an add on daft and gave it to the first person that came along.  Their vetting wasnt very good was it?  and now they just wash their hands of getting a stinker of a tennant for the op.

Agents fault.  OPs fault for not knowing better about what the agent was providing  ...  An add and a phonecall and a drive to the property for how much?


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## MrMan (4 Feb 2008)

> If it wasnt a managed letting then as i said, the agent put an add on daft and gave it to the first person that came along. Their vetting wasnt very good was it? and now they just wash their hands of getting a stinker of a tennant for the op.
> 
> Agents fault. OPs fault for not knowing better about what the agent was providing ... An add and a phonecall and a drive to the property for how much?



Alot of assumptions here, you do not know how many were shown the property, what area the property was in, the standard of the property and indeed it is impossible to completely gaurantee that a tenant will be good or bad. Nobody said the 1st person that came along got the apartment so it is of little use to this thread to simply make things up to try and support your point.


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## minion (4 Feb 2008)

MrMan said:


> Alot of assumptions here, you do not know how many were shown the property, what area the property was in, the standard of the property and indeed it is impossible to completely gaurantee that a tenant will be good or bad. Nobody said the 1st person that came along got the apartment so it is of little use to this thread to simply make things up to try and support your point.



How is this for support.  OP paid agent to get them a good tennant.  Agent got sh!t tennant.  Agent washed hands.  Agent took money and doesnt give a flying f***.

Is what an agent does really worth a months rent?

Making the assumption that 5 minutes after an add appears on Daft for an apartment in Dublin the phone starts ringing.
Why dont you list out for us what an agent does for people like the OP and how long each step takes them to do?

Then lets apply an hourly rate to it.


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## shesells (5 Feb 2008)

Minion that's the whole issue and something the OP won't answer or hasn't so far anyway. 

Letting agents offer 2 kinds of services. A letting service whereby they find you tenants and set up the move, transfer of utilities etc. And a management service where they deal with issues that arise with your property during the tenancy on top of arranging the tenancy. Obviously the management option is significantly more expensive.

If the OP only paid for a letting service then the agency has completed their responsibility in arranging the tenancy. 

Which is why it's hard to offer proper advice without the full info and hence people getting "excited" about it all.


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## MrMan (5 Feb 2008)

> How is this for support. OP paid agent to get them a good tennant. Agent got sh!t tennant. Agent washed hands. Agent took money and doesnt give a flying f***.
> 
> Is what an agent does really worth a months rent?
> 
> ...



First of all if you go looking for the good tenant registrar you may find it difficult to locate, there is a risk involved with all tenants just as there is a risk for the tenants i.e nightmare landlord. the subject in question, the agent sent eviction notice to the tenant and then advised for the guards to be called in (and so the story ends unless we find out the contract involved).

Regarding what an agent does for their fee is generally take the hassle out of it for the owner. If the owner has the time and doesn't mind dealing with the calls and viewings then of course it makes sense to do it yourself. For a months fee you would generally be talking about a managed letting in which case the landlord has no contact with the tenant and the agent is responsible for ensuring upkeep and income are up to date. Your gripe with agents doesn't make you an authority on the subject you should be able to allow for the reasoning that letting an agent do the work is of benefit to some people.


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## shesells (6 Feb 2008)

MrMan said:


> For a months fee you would generally be talking about a managed letting in which case the landlord has no contact with the tenant and the agent is responsible for ensuring upkeep and income are up to date.


 

Not in my experience. When we went with the major letting agency, they charged a month's rent for letting and an extra €500 or so for management.


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## minion (6 Feb 2008)

MrMan said:


> First of all if you go looking for the good tenant registrar you may find it difficult to locate, there is a risk involved with all tenants just as there is a risk for the tenants i.e nightmare landlord. the subject in question, the agent sent eviction notice to the tenant and then advised for the guards to be called in (and so the story ends unless we find out the contract involved).
> 
> Regarding what an agent does for their fee is generally take the hassle out of it for the owner. If the owner has the time and doesn't mind dealing with the calls and viewings then of course it makes sense to do it yourself. For a months fee you would generally be talking about a managed letting in which case the landlord has no contact with the tenant and the agent is responsible for ensuring upkeep and income are up to date. Your gripe with agents doesn't make you an authority on the subject you should be able to allow for the reasoning that letting an agent do the work is of benefit to some people.



Well you are definitely not an authority on it.  Why dont you just ring one and ask hm if, as you said hell, find a tennant and manage the property for a months fee.  And if you do find one post him up here, im sure he'll get lots of business.

I dare say you wont find one though.

My gripe is with anyone who overcharges for a small service.  How many hours is the agent going to put in for their fee?


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## MrMan (6 Feb 2008)

> Not in my experience. When we went with the major letting agency, they charged a month's rent for letting and an extra €500 or so for management.





> Well you are definitely not an authority on it. Why dont you just ring one and ask hm if, as you said hell, find a tennant and manage the property for a months fee. And if you do find one post him up here, im sure he'll get lots of business.



My experience is Limerick based, 8-10% charge for managed letting no finders fee. 6/7 % for unmanaged letting. As in all commercial agreements, price is negotiable, so negotiate.



> My gripe is with anyone who overcharges for a small service. How many hours is the agent going to put in for their fee?



Its not a case of x amount of hours, a straight forward property with striaghtforward tenant will have minimal contact by agent, but there is the other end of the scale as well.


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## KAZZA (6 Feb 2008)

Hi.
Just to let you know its not a managed letting. The payment obviously only paid for them finding a tenent and absolutely nothing else. Have been to the garda station and nothing they can do about it. Have rang her, have called up to the apartment and called up again last night with a witness and she reported me this morning to the guards saying I was threatning her!! I didnt threaten her at all and have a witness to prove it. Have to go up there tonight with the guard so who knows what will happen. Is there anything I can do as she has gotten money from the social welfare to pay for her rent and she hasn't paid it for the month of January. ( I had to use the original deposit to pay Januarys rent ) She gave the EA €350 but this has to be used as the deposit and cannot be used as rent. 
Does anybody know what the next step is ??


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## MrMan (6 Feb 2008)

So does she just owe for January then? At least we now know that you are officially on your own on this one. Why don't you go to the source of her funding as advised already, this is really where the problem can be solved.


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## KAZZA (6 Feb 2008)

Hi
I used the deposit given to me at the beginning of the lease to pay January's rent. So she didn't pay rent as normal for January. So she would of been given money towards the rent from social welfare but didn't use it to pay rent. So surely she is defrauding the social welfare by not using the money for what it is intended?? Does anybody know who I should get on to. Just the local social welfare office, if it is I have been trying to ring them and they are just ringing out!!


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