# Reasonable living expenses applicable to installment order for loan?



## customdust (12 Feb 2015)

Hello, I was wondering if I can use the reasonable living expenses table on the statement of means when going to court. I am not going down the personal insolvency route.


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## Bronte (12 Feb 2015)

Why wouldn't you use your real living expenses.  Whatever you do you don't want to be left with an amount to live on that means you'll get into further financial trouble.


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## 44brendan (12 Feb 2015)

Exactly! Use your own actual living expenses. It is up to the judge to rule on whether he considers them high and what level of installment to apply!


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## customdust (12 Feb 2015)

Thanks.
The statement of means form only has a small section for outgoings and I didn't know if I should list everything.
It says to please set out below your section for outgoings such as rent, household expenses, gas/electricity/ loan repayments and the amount you pay per week.
It has space for a, b and c.
so what I was wondering for household expenses could I basically include everything allowed under the reasonable living expenses category? 

The limit for a one adult household with vehicle is €1050.48
Then I have a mortgage (which is currently on a payment plan) and child maintenance to pay, my income doesn't stretch to afford the reasonable living expenses amount allowed anyway so I was wondering can I use the maximum limits?

Also I attend counselling, it's low cost but I do pay per week, can I add that or would that come out of health costs?


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## Bronte (12 Feb 2015)

customdust said:


> The statement of means form only has a small section for outgoings and I didn't know if I should list everything.


 
Don't worry about fitting everything into one category. First step is to write down every single one of your expenses and then go back to each one and put an a or b or c beside it, add them up the 3 totals and those 3 should equal the total of all your expenses.

Please do not forget to include items that you don't have monthly, things like repairs, insurance.  Look at your bank statement for confirmation of what you spend.

I would put counselling under health.

It's very worrying that people are filling out important forms on their own especially if they are under financial strain.  Would you think of going to Mabs or Citizen's advice for help? 

There surely must a be a guideline on how to fill out these documents but maybe it's very complicated.


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## 44brendan (12 Feb 2015)

If you are living below the "reasonable living expenses" guidelines with no excess available to pay creditors then you need have no worries about how your expenses are presented in the breakdown. Bronte's advice is good. Just itemize all your expenses and categorise them as required. Assumption is that total expenses will equate to total income. If expenses are higher than income this will lead to added questions as to how you are funding the shortfall!!


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## customdust (12 Feb 2015)

Thanks, I _am_ living below the reasonable living expenses guidelines so basically that means that I can't allocate as much money as I would like to certain areas, I can't spend much on food, heating etc. as I would like, i'm way below the reasonable expenses amount in those areas. Social inclusion is pretty much at €0. I can't save anything at the moment. My financial situation might improve somewhat over the next few months and if so am I allowed to cover my own reasonable expenses first before paying creditors?


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## Jim Stafford (13 Feb 2015)

Creditors will only go to the expense of instructing solicitors to apply for an instalment order if they believe that you have money.  In many cases, (particularly consumer type cases) the creditors can by "cut off at the pass" by providing them with a sworn statement of means.  If a creditor receives such a sworn statement of means , he is unlikely to proceed with an instalment order (unless he doesn't trust the sworn statement.)  Given that it is stressful being summonsed to court, it is better to try and avoid a court appearance.

if you do have to go to court, try and get a letter from MABS (which is a free service.) Judges like official documents on their files, and a letter from MABS is very persuasive.  Alternatively, you could get a letter from a Personal Insolvency Practitioner to show to the judge.  However, most PIPs would charge for such a letter.

Jim Stafford


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## Bronte (13 Feb 2015)

customdust said:


> Thanks, I _am_ living below the reasonable living expenses guidelines so basically that means that I can't allocate as much money as I would like to certain areas, I can't spend much on food, heating etc. as I would like, i'm way below the reasonable expenses amount in those areas. Social inclusion is pretty much at €0. I can't save anything at the moment. My financial situation might improve somewhat over the next few months and if so am I allowed to cover my own reasonable expenses first before paying creditors?


 
A human being is entitled to have reasonable living expenses.  That is why they have created the guidelines.  It seems you are scrimping by.  Are you paying off creditors at the expense of a reasonable life?


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## customdust (13 Feb 2015)

Thanks Jim Stafford, I will try to get a letter from MABS.




Bronte said:


> A human being is entitled to have reasonable living expenses.  That is why they have created the guidelines.  It seems you are scrimping by.  Are you paying off creditors at the expense of a reasonable life?



I don't have any debt apart from my mortgage and this small loan that I am being taken to court for. I just simply  have very little to live on at the moment. The bank have been very good in regards to the mortgage and I am on a payment plan that we arranged without the need to go to court. I've had some personal issues and i'm just trying to keep my head above water.

I have one other question in regards to the statement of means, it says I need to list persons for whom  I am legally and morally liable to support, it says e.g your children or any relative who relies on you.
Probably a very stupid question but do I put my kids down there even though they don't live with me? I do pay child maintenance.


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## Bronte (13 Feb 2015)

If you're paying maintenance than of course they are reliant on you.

You must put down absolutely everything.  One thing on this, and the experts might help you.  Say if you're a smoker or drinker or gambler.   Then let's say you spend €20 Euro on this a week, I'm not sure you should put that down.  Rather you should increase your grocery spend by that amount.

You were given very good advice to get a statement from Mabs, this will cost you nothing and you really ought to do it as it seems you are going to go into court alone.  Another thing I would do if I were you and if you have the time, go down to your local courthouse on the day there are debt orders (ask at the court house) and that way you'll be familiar with what you will face.  It can be very intimidating, but not if you've visited and experienced it.  But no matter what, if you're basically honest, no judge will make an order against you if you have presented your real reasonable living expenses.

Can you please name the Creditor involved.  Others who have experience of them might tell you how you can prevent going to court.


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## customdust (14 Apr 2015)

Thanks for the advice, I forgot to post the update, I went to court and the court date was called off for 2 months because there was no clerk there. I was approached by a solicitor from the other side who said he advised I pay €5 a week and that it would look a lot better for me...so I made an arrangement to do that and received a letter saying as long as I make the payment per week that I have agreed to that they will postpone the court date for 6 months and then look at it again.


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