# Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hair?



## ajapale (19 Dec 2009)

Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hair?

To me "Ginger" is a sort of cross between yellow and brown. I think this is usgage has crept in from England where it is largely an offensive pejorative term of abuse.

It doesnt properly describe the colour of hair prevalent in Ireland which is closer to Orange.

The terms "red head" and "foxy" while capable of being used in an offensive manner are at least accurate in terms of colour.


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## mathepac (19 Dec 2009)

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It seems to have both racist (in connection with Irish / Scotch people) and homophobic (rhyming slang "ginger beer") connotations and has crept in here via two generations educated exclusively via internet chav culture, Heat magazine, tabloid newspapers and satellite TV soaps.

Mind you it wasn't always a pejorative term, I seem to remember that Battler Britain, WWII Spitfire pilot and air-ace, had a wing-man called Ginger in the Hotspur!


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## haminka1 (19 Dec 2009)

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personally i don't understand the oversensitivity of the ginger... aehm, red-haired people ...
people grow up, what's your problem? i'm blond and there are some many jokes about blonde women - even i'm telling them, have absolutely no problem with it ... this PC culture is slowly damaging our brains, I find ...


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## mathepac (19 Dec 2009)

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haminka1 said:


> ...  many jokes about blond women ...


I'm sure there are, but I prefer the jokes about blonde women.


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## z107 (19 Dec 2009)

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Black people aren't black either.


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## ajapale (19 Dec 2009)

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haminka1 said:


> i don't understand the oversensitivity of the ginger... aehm, red-haired people ...
> people grow up, what's your problem? i'm blond and there are some many jokes about blond women - even i'm telling them, have absolutely no problem with it ... this PC culture is slowly damaging our brains, I find ...



Hi Ham,

This thread is about the term "Ginger". To my mind ginger describes a yellow/brown mix. I think the traditional  irish "foxy" is a bettter description of the orange colour hair that many Irish people have.

aj


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## Hoagy (19 Dec 2009)

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I was always called 'carrot' in school..


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## ajapale (19 Dec 2009)

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Yes "carrot" describes the hair colouring better than "ginger". Perhaps those cheap english tv shows are referring to people with yellow/brown hair colouring?


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## z107 (19 Dec 2009)

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carrots have green hair.


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## haminka1 (20 Dec 2009)

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mathepac said:


> I'm sure there are, but I prefer the jokes about blonde women.



hey mathepac, thanx for correction, the spelling slips from time to time when english's not your mother tongue


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## haminka1 (20 Dec 2009)

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ajapale said:


> Hi Ham,
> 
> This thread is about the term "Ginger". To my mind ginger describes a yellow/brown mix. I think the traditional  irish "foxy" is a bettter description of the orange colour hair that many Irish people have.
> 
> aj


might originate in the colour of it's skin? that one is closer to the reddish or orange hair-colour ...
you could always use the word "carrot" as well  personally i find the word ginger rather nice /just like the colour/ ...


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## Marion (20 Dec 2009)

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Some very lucky Irish people have natural "Titian red" and the natural "Strawberry Blonde". 

I don't think "foxy"  or "carrot" would cover these colours.

I thought it might have originated from Ginger Rogers but her name, Virginia, was mispronounced by a child when she was young  - so google informs me!

One of the sisters in Shawshank Redemtion, Mark Rolston has what I would call ginger hair.

I have seen some Bajan/Barbadian children with ginger-coloured hair.

Marion


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## Purple (20 Dec 2009)

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I don't like the term; I find it too English and quite derogatory.


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## Purple (20 Dec 2009)

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Yorky said:


> How can something be 'too English' ?



Same way they can be too American; the phrase is out of place in everyday Irish english.


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## haminka1 (21 Dec 2009)

*Re: Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hai*



Purple said:


> I don't like the term; I find it too English and quite derogatory.



surely the term "too English" sounds rather ironic coming from a member of a nation which kept the language of their colonists /while slagging them at each opportunity/ due to pragmatic reasons why letting their original mother tongue die out as redundant and old-fashioned?


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## Purple (21 Dec 2009)

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haminka1 said:


> surely the term "too English" sounds rather ironic coming from a member of a nation which kept the language of their colonists /while slagging them at each opportunity/ due to pragmatic reasons why letting their original mother tongue die out as redundant and old-fashioned?



No really. 

There are loads of former colonies where the mother tongue/ tongues/ dialects have died out and the language of the colonising power has become the everyday language.

My family are of Norman extraction from Wexford. It is a certainty that they didn’t speak Irish in the last few hundred years and may never have done so. The idea that we as a nation had one language for thousands of years and only lost it recently is utterly false.


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## haminka1 (21 Dec 2009)

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Purple said:


> No really.
> 
> There are loads of former colonies where the mother tongue/ tongues/ dialects have died out and the language of the colonising power has become the everyday language.
> 
> My family are of Norman extraction from Wexford. It is a certainty that they didn’t speak Irish in the last few hundred years and may never have done so. The idea that we as a nation had one language for thousands of years and only lost it recently is utterly false.



hm ... well, Norman extraction is something different but vast majority claim to have Gaelic origin and honestly, that's something that really strikes me as rather strange


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## csirl (21 Dec 2009)

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??? Isnt the answer obvious? Because refined ginger is orange/brown and so is the hair?


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## Caveat (21 Dec 2009)

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haminka1 said:


> hm ... well, Norman extraction is something different but vast majority *claim* to have Gaelic origin and honestly, that's something that really strikes me as rather strange


 
Claim being the operative word.

I would hazard a guess that for many people, boasting about their Irish 'authenticity' is a bit of wishfull thinking.

E.g. Arguably, Ken Magennis (Ulster unionist) could be said to be 'more Irish'  than Gerry Adams.


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## Firefly (22 Dec 2009)

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Just out of interest, what's the PC term for describing someone with this coloured hair?


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## Chocks away (22 Dec 2009)

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Dunno. But my husband was a red head nicknamed "Rusty" before he started going salt'n'peppa. Now he's more platinum. Should I up the insurance policy?


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## foxylady (22 Dec 2009)

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The world has gone PC mad


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## Firefly (22 Dec 2009)

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foxylady said:


> The world has gone PC mad


 
I totally agree, but it would be nice to know the official term when describing somebody with red/orange/rusty coloured hair for fear of insluting them. I think Rusty is nice by the way.


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## Caveat (22 Dec 2009)

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Don't see that there would be a problem with "red" (inaccurate though it may be).

People with "the hair colouring referred to in this thread"  seem to regularly refer to themselves as "redheads", particularly women.


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## MrMan (22 Dec 2009)

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umop3p!sdn said:


> Black people aren't black either.



And white people aren't white


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## Firefly (23 Dec 2009)

*Re: Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hai*

Sparks might fly 

boom boom


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## BetsyClark (23 Dec 2009)

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Person with "red" hair is PC enough. I have red hair. I'm not particularly bothered about being described as having ginger hair, but being described as "a ginger" does pee me off.


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## mathepac (31 Dec 2009)

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haminka1 said:


> hey mathepac, thanx for correction, the spelling slips from time to time when english's not your mother tongue


Pas de problem mon ami, but the blond / blonde thing is actually French.


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## upport (31 Dec 2009)

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Strawberry-blonde is fab.


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## Purple (31 Dec 2009)

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Yorky said:


> Can't help wondering who she thinks she's fooling though as what happens if/when she disrobes?


 That would be the opposite of a "Shirley Bassey", wouldn't it?


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## ajapale (1 Jan 2010)

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Irish New Year's Traditons:
"Who would be the first person to pass over the threshold of your home in the New Year? If it was a tall dark and handsome man it was said to bring luck, but how they prayed that it wouldn't be a young red haired girl who'd bring nothing but hardship and grief!"


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## Purple (2 Jan 2010)

*Re: Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hai*

I don't know about red-haired girls, but Red headed women are all good.


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## DavyJones (2 Jan 2010)

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Yorky said:


> How can something be 'too English' ?




Easy, Boxing day as one example.

I'm a red head and have been lucky enough to work all over the world.

In Asia, people would stop on the street and point at me.

In Ireland and Europe in General people didn't care.

In Oz, a red head is called "Bluey"

England is the place with the worse hang up, now don't get me wrong. I have never been victimized because of it, I wouldn't be the type to get bullied.

Two things stick out.

One winter I was in a shop in a queue, I was wearing a wool hat. There was a pregnant women infront of me, she was talking to her mate. They were talking about how things were going, when the pregnant women came out with, " I don't mind aslong as it's not a ginger"

Standing directly behind her, I had to ask. Would a severe disablity not be worse? she face went as red as my hair. Bet she thought twice about saying something so silly next time.


Other time was in a bar in London, I was at the counter ordering a last drink, when a big black man, shouted "Oh Ginger, it's my turn" or something similar. I turned said to him. "Do you think it would be appropriate for me to comment on your colouring? What makes you think it's appropriate to comment on mine?" or something similar, I had been drinking.

As he made his way toward me, it struck me how large this guy was. I thought "oh God, I'm going to die " he came over shook my hand and paid for my drink, result.


It's not about being PC, it's about using a word in a derogatory manner/tone.


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## BONDGIRL (2 Jan 2010)

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did you notice most new mothers who's babies are born with Red hair refer to colouring as "Strawberry-blonde"!  GAS!  I love this! my sister did this haha! I was like its red but its gorgeous. Sure I have been referred to as yellow skinned?  Yellow? Because I am sallow (sp?) i.e WHITE with a all round tan tan hahaha!!! I was slagged as a kid for yrs!!!!!!!


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## Complainer (3 Jan 2010)

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DavyJones said:


> EI have never been victimized because of it, I wouldn't be the type to get bullied.


Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but there is no 'type' that gets bullied.


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## DavyJones (3 Jan 2010)

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Complainer said:


> Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but there is no 'type' that gets bullied.



Maybe, but there is a type that doesn't get bullied.


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## Caveat (3 Jan 2010)

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BTW, 'foxy' is a new one on me - never heard it before. Is it a Dublin thing?


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## micheller (3 Jan 2010)

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Foxy is definitely used in other areas of the pale too.


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## Complainer (3 Jan 2010)

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DavyJones said:


> Maybe, but there is a type that doesn't get bullied.



Tell us more about this mythical beast?


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## ajapale (3 Jan 2010)

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The term "foxy" is very common in Cork and Kerry.

The Jimmy Crowley song "Salonika" which dates at least to WWI references "a kid with a foxy head".

I have only heard the term "ginger" on trashy english tv shows and english tabloids.


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## BONDGIRL (4 Jan 2010)

*Re: Where did the term "Ginger" come from when referring to people with red/ foxy hai*

I would think Foxy is used more to describe a hot looking chick! woohoo foxy lady!


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