# Debt free- but where do we go from here?



## zorba (30 Jul 2009)

*Age:*
37
*Spouse’s/Partner's age:*
34

*Annual gross income from employment or profession:*
E32k, was a lot better but now working a 3 day week due to the downturn in my sector.  Also in receipt of €81 p/w Jobseeker's benefit but this won't last for much longer as I've been getting this payment since February.
*Annual gross income spouse:*
E58k

*Type of employment:*
My job is not very secure, private sector, my wife is a public sector employee, thankfully.

*Expenditure pattern:*
We are both generally "savers" and we like to live well within our means.

*Rough estimate of value of home*
E230k, but who knows?
*Mortgage on home*
Mortgage free since 2008, worked hard to clear this over the past 9 years.


*Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc*
None, own 2 cars (required for work), no other borrowings.

*Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?*
Yes

*Savings and investments:*
E14k in various EBS accounts. E10k in Credit Union.  Invested money in a unit linked fund with Quinnlife in 2006, but put this on hold in 2008 as its value plummeted- probably worth less than E2k now.
*Do you have a pension scheme?*
Yes, I have a personal pension plan with New Ireland but this is on hold and probably worth less than E8k now; also had a company scheme which is now on hold and valued at less than E2k I imagine.  I am very wary of pension schemes other than my wife's defined benefit model!  Any value my plans had has been wiped out over the past few years. 


*Do you own any investment or other property?*
No.

*Ages of children:*
4 and 3 years.

*Life insurance:*
No, but my wife's employment has a "Widows and Orphans" scheme of some kind.

*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*
I think we're doing ok, considering the dreadful state of the country right now; we're mortgage and debt free, saving as best we can and always mindful of how we spend our money in these uncertain times.  I know we need to consider life assurance, a pension for me and plan for our children's education.  We would like to trade up to a slightly bigger home a couple of years down the line and we plan to have E35- 45k in cash savings by then, all going well.  Our savings are not getting a good return in any of those accounts; I know there's room for improvement there.  I would welcome any input, thanks.

Thanks.


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## mercman (30 Jul 2009)

Fair play to you. You are doing better than 99.9% of the populus at present.


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## ontour (31 Jul 2009)

Congratulations, your financial situation is something to be very proud of!

Life Assurance should be a priority and something you should deal with that now.  You don't need some bigger financial plan to make this decision.  Given the fact that you have a young family, this is important for both yourself and your wife.

Given the current downturn in your sector, is this a time where you could invest in up-skilling or cross-training to increase your earning potential.  Would some of the money that you are putting in to the bank get a better long term return if you put it in to training /education?


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## zorba (31 Jul 2009)

Thanks ontour; my wife is already in the latter stages of completing a master's in her own area, which has been a significant drain on our time and resources over the last two years.  I might possibly consider some further training myself when Mrs Zorba has (hopefully!) successfully completed her studies.  I'm not sure if additional training will yield much for me in the short to medium term- my sector is severely depressed (construction professional) and unlikely to recover for a very long time. Otherwise, life assurance is certainly the big elephant in the room!


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## DerekMoy (31 Jul 2009)

37 and Mortgage and Debt free... consider yourself lucky!


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## Raul (31 Jul 2009)

Well done. This is an excellent achievement. I'll let other more financial savy people advise you on your next steps...


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## so-crates (31 Jul 2009)

Looks to me like you are doing deservedly well. I think what you need is to clarify your own goals. Basically you are in a good place and you can see some things that you think you'd like to change, other things that you want or need to change and are not really quite sure how to start progressing them? Sit down, write out some goals, decide whether they are long, medium or short term and then start looking at how you will achieve each of them. You already have listed some below:
1) Improve return on savings 
2) Improve life cover
3) Improve retirement planning
4) Educate children
5) Trade up

The savings are really a means rather than a goal. It may be a good thing to decide what those savings are for, are they going to cover a myriad of uses or are they focussed on one goal - you have a variety of medium term plans that they will probably be used for but I don't think you have quite associated the value or the percentage to the goal yet, so the things to consider are return, accessiblilty, risk and spread. How much risk are you willing to countenance? I think it is not unwise to have a percentage of your funds in riskier ventures (in your case such as the QuinnLife fund) and a percentage on deposit. 
Firstly, in terms of the fund, logically now is the time to buy units in it as they will be cheaper than they were in 2006. Don't get over-concerned about the drop in value - it is disheartening but these products should be seen as being longer term investments over say 7 - 10 years. 
Then look at your deposit account savings, what proportion of your savings are you not planning to touch for a time? Identify a lump sum deposit account that will yield you a higher rate of return.
Then look at regular savings - I am assuming you are continuing with them? Identify a regular savings account with the best rate of return and start putting money into that.

Goals first though


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## zorba (1 Aug 2009)

Thank you so-crates, very good points, excellent in fact.


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## so-crates (1 Aug 2009)

You're welcome zorba - hope it helps


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## sustanon (1 Aug 2009)

Would I be starting a fire here by questioning the payment of Jobseekers to people in this situation? Does a couple pulling in 90k need a 4k social benefit?


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## Marietta (2 Aug 2009)

sustanon said:


> Would I be starting a fire here by questioning the payment of Jobseekers to people in this situation? Does a couple pulling in 90k need a 4k social benefit?


 

I agree, that was my first impression reading this post, I think it is shocking this person is getting a social welfare payment considering the huge wage coming into the home each week.  I know he has paid his contributions etc but considering over 400,000 people are currently unemployed its rather hard to stomach.


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## so-crates (2 Aug 2009)

Not quite relevant to the original question but I can see where you are coming from. Righteousness is such a comfortable position, however the OP referred to Jobseekers BENEFIT not ALLOWANCE. The former is an entitlement based on his contributions, it is what the "I" in PRSI is supposed to be about, at the end of the day it is equivalent to say Hibernian paying out on a policy. Would you consider it right that an insurance company would refuse to honour it's contractual committment?


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## zorba (2 Aug 2009)

Having worked, paid taxes and PRSI for more than 15 years, strangely enough, I feel I am quite entitled to claim my Jobseeker's benefit.  I could probably say a lot more, but I won't- however I do hope that I can return to working a 5 day week sometime soon.


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## coin (4 Aug 2009)

zorba said:


> Having worked, paid taxes and PRSI for more than 15 years, strangely enough, I feel I am quite entitled to claim my Jobseeker's benefit. I could probably say a lot more, but I won't- however I do hope that I can return to working a 5 day week sometime soon.


 

You most certainly are entitled to it and should be giving the advice to other posters on here. You are financially very healthy indeed and congrats!


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## sustanon (6 Aug 2009)

so-crates said:


> Not quite relevant to the original question but I can see where you are coming from. Righteousness is such a comfortable position, however the OP referred to Jobseekers BENEFIT not ALLOWANCE. The former is an entitlement based on his contributions, it is what the "I" in PRSI is supposed to be about, at the end of the day it is equivalent to say Hibernian paying out on a policy. Would you consider it right that an insurance company would refuse to honour it's contractual committment?



provided I was meeting all of the requirements of the insurance policy, and not committing fraud, of course, insurance is insurance. just like saying you don't smoke on the application form. if they don't check it or pursue the stipulation, is it a crime?


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## zorba (7 Aug 2009)

sustanon said:


> provided I was meeting all of the requirements of the insurance policy, and not committing fraud, of course, insurance is insurance. just like saying you don't smoke on the application form. if they don't check it or pursue the stipulation, is it a crime?



The above comment is entirely off thread, unhelpful and has no relevance to my original query.  So-crates answered my query, thanks to the other posters for their contributions.


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## so-crates (9 Aug 2009)

sustanon said:


> provided I was meeting all of the requirements of the insurance policy, and not committing fraud, of course, insurance is insurance. just like saying you don't smoke on the application form. if they don't check it or pursue the stipulation, is it a crime?



hmm sustanon - not a great use of my analogy on your part. In essence you are liking his lawful usage of the insurance element of PRSI, based on his contributions and his current situation, to fraud. He isn't claiming a means-tested allowance and he has had no reason to hide his partner's income - your implication is that he is obliged to disclose this income and that he has not - thus is claiming monies he has no entitlement to. I'd have to agree with zorba - your comment is quite pointless. You evidently feel outraged that *can* claim such monies but your sense of outrage is insufficient grounds on which to throw out baseless accusations of fraud.


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## triciamonty (9 Aug 2009)

well done to you both,collect everything from social welfare.your are entitled to it after paying your taxes and prsi, like most of us. once again well done some good news for a change


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## sustanon (9 Aug 2009)

my implication is that the OP is obliged to be actively seeking work. paying PRSI and benefiting from it is commendable, and the OP is absolutely entitled to it, but the requirements os the benefit payout should be met. I never mentioned the disclosure of incomes. I'm referencing the requirement to be actively seeking work.


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## zorba (9 Aug 2009)

sustanon said:


> my implication is that the OP is obliged to be actively seeking work. paying PRSI and benefiting from it is commendable, and the OP is absolutely entitled to it, but the requirements os the benefit payout should be met. I never mentioned the disclosure of incomes. I'm referencing the requirement to be actively seeking work.



This will be my last response to these comments from sustanon:

When making my claim for benefit, I declared my household income and all other relevant information requested by the officer at the social welfare office, as any person must.  Since being put on reduced hours I have written to many companies (and not just within my field), looking for part time work of any kind.  Most companies didn't bother to reply.  I followed up every possibly personal contact and lead with a view to getting additional work, all to no avail.  In short I have been actively seeking work and never said otherwise.  If you persist in a baseless argument to the contrary I'm going to dismiss it as the work of a "troll".  Have a nice day.

Again, thanks to everbody else for actually responding to my initial query, cheers!


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## sustanon (9 Aug 2009)

zorba said:


> This will be my last response to these comments from sustanon:
> 
> When making my claim for benefit, I declared my household income and all other relevant information requested by the officer at the social welfare office, as any person must. Since being put on reduced hours I have written to many companies (and not just within my field), looking for part time work of any kind. Most companies didn't bother to reply. I followed up every possibly personal contact and lead with a view to getting additional work, all to no avail. In short I have been actively seeking work and never said otherwise. If you persist in a baseless argument to the contrary I'm going to dismiss it as the work of a "troll". Have a nice day.
> 
> Again, thanks to everbody else for actually responding to my initial query, cheers!


 
Thanks for clearing it up, sorry if I upset you.


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## Bronte (10 Aug 2009)

You seem to have bits of money everywhere.  If your pension type investments are not performing how about taking out what is in there and putting the money to better use.  Check out the link on AAM to the financial best buys to see what better return you can get on deposits.  Make the money work for you.


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## Kate10 (13 Aug 2009)

I can't believe the OP is being criticised for claiming his job-seeker's benefit, on the basis that he and his wife are hard-working and responsible.  

I find it absolutely incredible that someone should resent someone like the op getting very limited job seeker's benefit for a bare 12 months after many years of supporting social welfare through his taxes.  Who do you think paid for the social welfare that is paid to all of the people who live permanently off the system??


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## gembem (13 Aug 2009)

zorba said:


> Having worked, paid taxes and PRSI for more than 15 years, strangely enough, I feel I am quite entitled to claim my Jobseeker's benefit. I could probably say a lot more, but I won't- however I do hope that I can return to working a 5 day week sometime soon.


 
i think Jobseeker benefit should be restricted to people who have no work and are looking for a job....i.e. job-seeking?!


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## Kate10 (13 Aug 2009)

The op already clearly stated that he is looking for work.  I would have thought that would have gone without saying anyway, given his history!!


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## gembem (13 Aug 2009)

Kate10 said:


> The op already clearly stated that he is looking for work. I would have thought that would have gone without saying anyway, given his history!!


 
he's hardly on the breadline though in all fairness, 37 years of age and debt free, 3 day week = 32k? plus JobSeeker on top of that....


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## so-crates (13 Aug 2009)

gembem, in essence what you are trying to suggest is that the insurance payout should be means-tested? Bet those overworked social welfare officers would love that. 
He hasn't claimed he is on the breadline and he is in the good position he is in because he has worked towards it. To take the extreme example, why should someone who has squandered their income and finds themselves in a pickle have a greater entitlement to the insurance payout than a person who has been careful? That is basically what you are suggesting. That because he has been sensible he should now be penalised for this? 

It is simple. He is not falsely claiming an allowance he has no entitlement to. He is claiming on an insurance policy he has paid for.


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## DinkDong (13 Aug 2009)

+ 1 so-crates 
and to add ...  in fairness it so miserable after 15 years of contributions that your only entitled to 1 year return when people who have never worked a day in their lives is entitled to it indefinately.....
Just to say well done to the OP! I wish I was in your situation. Congrats...


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## so-crates (13 Aug 2009)

To be pedantic DinkDong, those who have not worked are not entitled to it, they cannot receive JS Benefit as they have not made contributions. 

What they are entitled to is to claim JS Allowance, which is means-tested. Since those who never work rarely have means that will exceed the threshold they generally qualify. Zorba would be entitled to ask for JSA but probably wouldn't qualify.


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## DinkDong (13 Aug 2009)

so-crates I should have been more specific in saying welfare benefit rater than JSB  or JSA.


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## so-crates (13 Aug 2009)

DinkDong that would be less specific rather than more. Zorba (and from your other post your DH) have an entitlement to JSB. This is based on their having worked. Those who haven't do not have that entitlement. JSA is open to all (except those currently in receipt of JSB [ignoring other exceptions and attempting to simplify the comparison here]), Zorba and your DH are as entitled to that as indefinitely as anyone else BUT it is means tested and they would likely fail that means test due to the household income. IF (God forbid) circumstances worsened in the household they may then qualify

What I am trying to say is that you are mixing up two different things in your post and equating JSA and JSB in error.


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## zorba (16 Aug 2009)

Just thought I'd check in on this after a week; I'm still amazed that a simple personal query about our household finances and planning for the future has descended into a debate about the social welfare system!  I should never have included my statutory entitlement in my opening post (thankfully I didn't mention Children's Allowance either ).  There would appear to be a lot of ignorance and confusion out there in relation to Jobseeker's benefit vs. Jobseeker's allowance.  Then again I suppose I didn't know much about either until I was actually in the unfortunate situation where I needed to make a claim.  I didn't know much about redundancy entitlements either, until I was made redundant in the recent past.  The broader debate about the social welfare system and the implications of the McCarthy report would probably find a better home on another thread.


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