# SIPTU official got 1000e a day..



## thedaras (7 Oct 2010)

It appears it wasn't just the government/banks/property developers...

SIPTU official got €1,000 a day from HSE's €2.35m slush fund
By Eilish O'Regan and Ann Marie Walsh
Thursday October 07 2010

A FORMER trade union boss was entitled to fees of up to €1,000 a day for chairing each meeting of the group overseeing the controversial state training scheme for health workers, the Irish Independent has learned.

SIPTU's Billy Attley chaired the steering group for the €60m 'Skill' training scheme, which will be at the centre of a hearing by the Dail Committee on Public Accounts today.

A damning internal Heath Service Executive (HSE) audit has found that €2.35m paid into a SIPTU account to administer the scheme was poorly accounted for, with money lavished on foreign study trips, taxis and a private pension.

The union announced last night that it had lodged €348,000 with the Commissioner for Oaths "in good faith". This is equal to a sum that the auditors found could not be accounted for.

A SIPTU spokesman again insisted that the account was not in the control of the union. But he said the union had told the HSE it would reimburse any expenses that could not be properly accounted for.

Expenses

Mr Attley, who was appointed to the chair in 2004, told this newspaper he was entitled to up to €1,000 for chairing each meeting, but only claimed half that for half-day meetings held every second month.

Mr Attley said he was also entitled to unspecified expenses that he did not claim.

The audit report showed that he had been paid €26,750 up to the end of 2009.

He rejected claims that the steering group was at fault for not monitoring the €2.35m fund, saying its brief was to approve training programmes.

"We had no control over finance. We had no role in that area -- that was the responsibility of the HSE," he added.

The report revealed yet more waste of the €2.35m. It found:

The Skill office clocked up service costs of €526,444, none of which were tendered for.
One journey involved a taxi from Dublin to Kilkenny, a wait for the client and a return to Dublin at a cost of €432.
Another involved a journey from St James's Hospital in Dublin to Tullamore, returning to the capital via Louth and Dublin Airport, at a cost of €544.
In evidence to the audit committee, one of the union officials with access to the account said the Department of Health gave him the grant with no guidelines or terms and conditions as to how the money should be spent.

- Eilish O'Regan and Ann Marie Walsh

Irish Independent


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## Sunny (7 Oct 2010)

Unbelieveable.


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## ninsaga (7 Oct 2010)

Could this be one of the reasons we havn't heard the unions come out and blast the government for waste spending to date - given that their own bibs are dirty also!


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## Purple (7 Oct 2010)

Ah, but the info posted above is from the Indo and they have an anti-union agenda so it must all be made up.


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## Complainer (7 Oct 2010)

Outrageous stuff going on here.

Was Attley a SIPTU employee at the time? I'd wonder who actually managed the account - who signed the cheques?


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## becky (7 Oct 2010)

We heard here there is a person 'off duty' since this controversy was first spoken about.  He is a highly paid union staff member who was very involved in this project.


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## Howitzer (7 Oct 2010)

I'm not surprised. My outrage level has barely risen.

However if I was member of this, or any other Union, at this moment in time I think I'd be feeling like a bit of a sap. Especially if I'd been buying the bull that's been emenating from that general direction for the last few years.

Not an isolated case I'd imagine.


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## Slash (7 Oct 2010)

This was only one of a number of slush funds put in place to keep the unions on side during the era of social partnership. Putting senior union officials on the board of FAS was another.


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Purple said:


> Ah, but the info posted above is from the Indo and they have an anti-union agenda so it must all be made up.



How true  but how about this one from the Irish Times..

Further Siptu payments revealed

Siptu will repay some training money if payments unvouched | 07/10/2010
MARTIN WALL, Industry Correspondent

The Department of Finance has revealed that money from a local authority partnership fund was also paid into the Siptu?linked bank account at the centre of the Skill controversy.

The Dail Public Accounts Committee heard today that that the money in question originally came from the Department of Environment. However, it did not have details of the amount involved.

The revelation means that the Siptu National Health and Local Authority Levy Fund has received funding from three separate state sources.

The committee also heard that a senior official of Dublin City Council also took part in one of the foreign trips under investigation.

Yesterday, Siptu said it will repay some of the money involved in the controversy over the Skill training programme if any payments are found to have not been properly vouched. The union said it had lodged €348,000 with a commissioner for oaths in good faith.

However, the amount, if any, which will be repaid will not be decided until an internal investigation which it is carrying out into the Skill payment controversy, is finalised.

Last June, it emerged that €2.3 million in funding from the Skill programme had been paid into a bank account, which was controlled by persons closely associated with Siptu, as part of a grant authorised by the Department of Health.

The union yesterday maintained that it had never sought or known anything about the transfer, and said it had no liability in respect of the money. The annual €250,000 grant was channelled by the Department of Health through Skill, a training programme run by the Health Service Executive (HSE).

In his annual report, the Comptroller and Auditor General highlighted a sum of €348,322 which had been paid into the account, known as the Siptu national health and local authority levy fund, by way of reimbursement of a number of costs, including expenses for Skill programme conferences, travel and subsistence.

The comptroller said that so far, the HSE had been unable to satisfy itself that all of the amounts claimed and paid as reimbursements, represented expenditure properly incurred for the purpose of the Skill programme.

Union sources said last night that the amount lodged by Siptu with a commissioner for oaths was on the basis that this was the sum identified in the comptroller?s report. However, sources said that this did not mean that Siptu would be repaying that amount. The union said that it had never been consulted with regard to money paid into the account.

?We never received an annual report on the account or details of a single transaction conducted through it. It was never audited by our internal or external auditors. We were never once queried by the HSE in relation to this account until we were contacted by its audit team in September 2009.

?However, conscious of our role as a civil society organisation, we are endeavouring to assist in clarifying all the matters at issue. Moreover, we have informed the HSE that, without prejudice, any payments in respect of reimbursement of expenses which cannot be properly vouched will be repaid.?

Lets see how they dismiss the Times..


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## Sunny (8 Oct 2010)

Did you also see the breakdown of their travel for the past five or six years in the Irish Times. Amazing how they always had a trip to either New York, Boston or Australia that just so happened to co-incide with St Patricks day. Complete and utter disgrace. They all had their noses in the trough and as usual nothing will happen apart from feigned shock on disgust on Prime Time and then quickly move until the next time. 

Social Partnership my This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language. Excuse the language. The Unions have shown themselves to be no better than the executives and politicans who have destroyed this Country. Is there anyone in a position of power in this Country with morals or a sense of ethical behaviour?


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## Caveat (8 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> The Unions have shown themselves to be no better than the executives and politicans who have destroyed this Country.


 
Did you expect any more from them? 

Most union officials in my experience are despicable grubby little jumped up morons with brass necks.  They are on average worse than the typical capitalist as they are just as greedy in climbing their own corporate ladder but they tend to have an axe to grind to boot.


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Plus 1 @ Sunny.

@Caveat..You got that so right..

Thing is they always claim to have the moral high ground...they are falling slowly from it 
.


> The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught.


H. L. Mencken


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## shnaek (8 Oct 2010)

"Man of Honor" - not many of those about these days.


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## Complainer (8 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> Did you also see the breakdown of their travel for the past five or six years in the Irish Times. Amazing how they always had a trip to either New York, Boston or Australia that just so happened to co-incide with St Patricks day.


The same thought struck me when I saw mention of trips in March. Did you see something more specific than 'March'?


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## Sunny (8 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> The same thought struck me when I saw mention of trips in March. Did you see something more specific than 'March'?


 
As far as I can remember they were at least week long trips that always included the 17th. They don't give the exact breakdown online but the exact dates are in the print version of the paper.


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## Yorrick (8 Oct 2010)

Why are you surprised by all this ?

When Gilmore Geraghty and Rabbitte were top Union officials they were being paid wages far in excess of what anyTD got.
History shows that the Left Winger is as good as any of the rest when it comes to putting the snout in the trough.
As said in Britain when a Tory politician gets in trouble its usually women or little boys but with Labour its usually to do with money


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## Complainer (8 Oct 2010)

Yorrick said:


> As said in Britain when a Tory politician gets in trouble its usually women or little boys but with Labour its usually to do with money


Would you care to be more specific about when Labour have 'got into trouble' about money?


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## Sunny (8 Oct 2010)

Yorrick said:


> Why are you surprised by all this ?
> 
> When Gilmore Geraghty and Rabbitte were top Union officials they were being paid wages far in excess of what anyTD got.
> History shows that the Left Winger is as good as any of the rest when it comes to putting the snout in the trough.
> As said in Britain when a Tory politician gets in trouble its usually women or little boys but with Labour its usually to do with money


 
I don't think it surprises anyone. Union leaders have been milking the system for a long time. When the leaders of unions get packages that are multiples of what their own members get, you would have to question the whole idea of worker solidarity. 

In the past couple of years we have the seen the Church, Political System, Legal System, Banking System and the Trade Unions completely fail in their moral duties and responsibilities. This country is now a complete and utter rudderless mess. We are about to head in what is going to be three or four years of tough budgets and we have to read stories like this. I am in a well paid job and I can get a job abroad if needs be so am luckier than most and I would not consider myself to be the protesting sort but even I have had enough at this stage.


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Wasn't there talk of some huge make over for the head office in Siptu?
Did this go ahead?

The sad thing is that the members of  unions were being led to believe that these guys were looking out for there members interests..and sadder still the members believed it all and paid for the pleasure..


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## csirl (8 Oct 2010)

Time to grow a beard and start shouting "up the workers" 

I think there's a strong element of dissaffection among union officials. Many first got involved in unions due to having some sort of gripe and have chips on their shoulders and often feel that the world owes them something. They also see themselves as fighting against the "establishment". Taking everything going, particularly if it is funded by the "establishment" is their way of getting back at society.


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## Firefly (8 Oct 2010)

Maybe all of the paid-up members of SIPTU should picket the gates of, er, SIPTU


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## Sunny (8 Oct 2010)

Isn't it amazing how quiet Siptu have gone on EVERYTHING.


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Absolutely right csirl.

I honestly believe that a lot of them suffer from self esteem issues and that they feel anyone in management is better than them ,this festers away at them and they get angry and shout very loudly,cause problems for others ,obstruct new and easier working ways..moan and complain about how much everyone else earns but couldn't be bothered educating themselves and move up the ladder,their ignorance is dangerous!!

I have found in any meeting with unions I have had ,they are stirring the fire.It can start as something very small but because they feel inferior this is their only way of getting back at whom they perceive to be the enemy..

Its just a pity that the HSE "training " funds weren't spent on personal development courses..money well spent ..and helpful. to all involved.
In my line of work (Former life) I have found that those who lack self esteem,are the ones who feel a huge need to be seen as getting the upper hand as they perceive it..


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Firefly said:


> Maybe all of the paid-up members of SIPTU should picket the gates of, er, SIPTU



Id imagine that's against union rules.


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## thedaras (8 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> Isn't it amazing how quiet Siptu have gone on EVERYTHING.



And some posters


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## bren1916 (8 Oct 2010)

Indeed - you don't hear much about this from Higgins & the Socialist mob incl. SF (unless I missed it of course ).


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## shnaek (8 Oct 2010)

Looks like there's a bit of craic going on here too:

http://www.independent.ie/national-...decision-on-redundancy-liability-2370555.html

"SIPTU said yesterday that it had been assured by Aer Lingus that the deal had been endorsed by independent legal and tax advisers.
It added: 'We won't tolerate our members receiving less than what was agreed.'"

Plenty of things they will tolerate though!

And the DAA and who knows how many other government run bodies have implemented similar plans. Only in the sheltered sector!


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## Deiseblue (9 Oct 2010)

Perhaps the reason SIPTU are not commenting is because their investigation is still proceeding and that they are having the same difficulties as the HSE in unravelling matters , let's not forget that it's the HSE that had the ultimate say in releasing funds.
But hey if people want to convict somebody on the basis of the scant facts available to date , please feel free.
I prefer to work on the basis that somebody is innocent until proven guilty.


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## SlurrySlump (9 Oct 2010)

This brings home to me the treatment I got from the IBOA a year or so ago when I tried to get them to investigate a work problem that I was having.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=95017&highlight=IBOA

I guess they were too busy chomping the salmon at the trough.


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## Sunny (9 Oct 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> Perhaps the reason SIPTU are not commenting is because their investigation is still proceeding and that they are having the same difficulties as the HSE in unravelling matters , let's not forget that it's the HSE that had the ultimate say in releasing funds.
> But hey if people want to convict somebody on the basis of the scant facts available to date , please feel free.
> I prefer to work on the basis that somebody is innocent until proven guilty.



We are not convicting anyone. We are convicting the hse and siptu. The fact that they lodged the money suggests that they  know enough. It is not just the fact that the funds were spent, it is what the funds were spent on. For a trade union to spend training money on junkets is disgraceful. They went on the trips so they knew as did the hse and as did senior civil servants. Feel free to keep believing in your bearded friends though


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## Deiseblue (9 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> We are not convicting anyone. We are convicting the hse and siptu. The fact that they lodged the money suggests that they know enough. It is not just the fact that the funds were spent, it is what the funds were spent on. For a trade union to spend training money on junkets is disgraceful. They went on the trips so they knew as did the hse and as did senior civil servants. Feel free to keep believing in your bearded friends though


 
  I am simply pointing out that two investigations are currently taking place.

Surely it is better to see what conclusions are reached before proceeding to judgement ?


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## IsleOfMan (11 Oct 2010)

Looking foreward to see him get his comeuppance.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/96821


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## Slash (11 Oct 2010)

And, in spite of all of this, Des Geraghty, President of the SIPTU Politburo from 1999 to 2004, has been appointed to the Board of the Central Bank. What the bejasus does Des know about banking? There is nothing in his impressive CV which indicates he can be any advantage to board of the CB.

"He is a former member of the RTÉ Authority, the Board of FÁS, the National Competitiveness Council, the Affordable Homes Partnership and the National Economic and Social Council and a former Chair of Poetry Ireland."


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## shnaek (11 Oct 2010)

Just looking at the DAA and Aer Lingus redudancy scam - can anyone avail of that? Like, could an employer in the private sector lay off a load of workers, get the government to pay 60% of the redundancy, and then hire them all back on different terms? I mean, is it just me or does this seem like a massive loophole? Or is it just a practice that takes place in areas controlled by the government and vested interests on our corrupt little island?


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## Caveat (11 Oct 2010)

Slash said:


> There is nothing in his impressive CV which indicates he can be any advantage to board of the CB.


 
Other than being a serial board member that is - that's all you need on the CV apparently.

Old board members never die, they just continue to find less and less relevant boards to be members of until any link with the reality of their background or experience becomes so obscure, that they simply fade away into the ether, unnoticed.


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## Deiseblue (11 Oct 2010)

Surely the most unbelievable appoitment to this regulatory body is that of Mike Soden.

Mr. Soden resigned as CEO of Bank of Ireland after breaching regulatory policy on the viewing of certain websites.

Such viewing reflected either an ignorance of regulations are a blatant disregard of same.

In any event this man should never be left near a regulatory body.


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## DB74 (11 Oct 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> Mr. Soden resigned as CEO of Bank of Ireland after breaching regulatory policy on the viewing of certain websites.


 
The website he was *allegedly* viewing is [broken link removed]

As a Bank of Ireland shareholder I am disgusted


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## Sunny (11 Oct 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> Surely the most unbelievable appoitment to this regulatory body is that of Mike Soden.
> 
> Mr. Soden resigned as CEO of Bank of Ireland after breaching regulatory policy on the viewing of certain websites.
> 
> ...


 
What regulatory policy?? It was against company policy. I am typing this from work which is against company policy. Should I never be allowed near a regulatory body?

However, I wouldn't of asked Snoden to be on the Board either. Has nothing to do him looking at escort sites though


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## cork (11 Oct 2010)

It is very strange that the mandrians in SIPTU on their big salaries have gone so quiet.

For years - trade unionists sat  happingly in social partnership 

These people are still being appointed to the boards of state companies.

The Irish Labour party have also gone silent.

Where is the accountability.

This is tax payers money - Where can you get a list of siptu officials who took foriegn trips?


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## becky (11 Oct 2010)

cork - there was an article in the Irish Times last week with names - I heard one of the names as far back as last year.

P.ie have a long thread on the same subject and they have the IT's article link contained within that.


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## TarfHead (11 Oct 2010)

According to the Irish Times article, Peter McLoone went on one of the trips under scrutiny.


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## TarfHead (11 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> What regulatory policy?? It was against company policy.


 
+1

A policy that he, as CEO, was responsible for.

And, if he hadn't been forced to resign, he may have plotted the same course as his successor. I have heard him say, on radio, that even in his time in charge, they used to spend time asking themselves "_how are Anglo doing what they're doing and how can we do the same ?_".


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## Sunny (11 Oct 2010)

I thought it was interesting when I read at the weekend that it only came to light when Brendan Drumm 'bumped into' a load of them in Australia and started asking questions about why they were there when he got back.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/oct/10/235m-slush-fund-rumbled-by-hsechief-on-australia-t/

You really couldn't make this up. The taxpayer pays for Union officials to go on study trips to Australia and no-body knows anything about it.


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## Staples (11 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> I thought it was interesting when I read at the weekend that it only came to light when Brendan Drumm 'bumped into' a load of them in Australia and started asking questions about why they were there when he got back.
> 
> http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/oct/10/235m-slush-fund-rumbled-by-hsechief-on-australia-t/


 
This Skills programme is the probably the worst single example of mismanagement of funds in the public service.  It trumps, by a mile, anything FAS got beaten up over. 

Accountability for the management of the fund rests at several levels.  This was not hidden, it was ignored.  Somwhere within the HSE, there is a senior manager who decided it was acceptable for this fund to be used for travel purposes.  How any person could do so is the real question to be asked.


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