# Amazon price changes mysteriously



## dub_nerd (13 Mar 2019)

I went to order this from Amazon:





Like a lot of people, I have a home address in Ireland plus a Northern Irish parcel motel address to use for items that ship free to UK addresses. This time Amazon offered me the above price of £239.99 and free delivery to either UK or Ireland. I triple checked that the offer was the same in both cases.

But when I went to check out, although the postage was shown as free, the actual item price had been sneakily hiked by £6 if I chose delivery to Ireland:
*________UK:_________________________Ireland:___________________ *





Anyone know what gives?​


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## RedOnion (13 Mar 2019)

dub_nerd said:


> Anyone know what gives?


Lovely phone.
When you give ROI address they charge Irish VAT. Is that the difference?


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## dub_nerd (13 Mar 2019)

Doh! Spot on!
Extra 3% VAT (Ireland 23% vs. UK 20%) would account for it alright.
It doesn't give any VAT breakdown on the online screen which makes it hard to compare, even though the VAT is shown on the email  confirmation.

I tried it again and noticed a couple more things. The price in my first screenshot above is only wrong if you initially choose UK delivery and then switch address to Ireland. If you choose Ireland up front it shows £245. Seems to be a bug in the Amazon UI.

Just thinking out loud here ... so that means if I ship to Parcel Motel NI I'm getting cheaper VAT, which in this case would more than cover the Parcel Motel cost? (Didn't do it 'cos I don't want extra risk of a delivery screw-up).
Might be a moot point after we get our hard border and have to switch to amazon.de


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Mar 2019)

For big purchases Parcel Motel is often better value due to the VAT issue.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Mar 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> For big purchases Parcel Motel is often better value due to the VAT issue.



Why? 

Surely you must pay Irish VAT if you bring it into the Republic?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Why?
> 
> Surely you must pay Irish VAT if you bring it into the Republic?



It is several years since I did this. The delivery (for Amazon's purposes) is within the UK, to Parcel Motel's address in Newtownabbey. From memory they charged UK VAT.

Parcel Motel then drive it across the border to one of their pick-up points.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Mar 2019)

That is not my point. 

Surely, if you import it into Ireland you should pay Irish VAT? 

Or am I missing something? 

Brendan


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## mathepac (13 Mar 2019)

No, once VAT is paid within the EU there is no further VAT payable to move an item within the EU. Brexit anyone?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That is not my point.
> 
> Surely, if you import it into Ireland you should pay Irish VAT?
> 
> ...



You think that I - as an occasional importer of something like a video camera - should make a VAT return for about ten euros?

Or am I missing something?


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## michaelm (13 Mar 2019)

Orders would need to be €200+ before your save anything given that Parcel Motel or AddressPal charges eat into any VAT saving.  In any event, I'd prefer the VAT goes to the Irish exchequer rather than that of the UK.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Mar 2019)

mathepac said:


> No, once VAT is paid within the EU there is no further VAT payable to move an item within the EU.



Thanks mathepac. 

So if I buy something I should get it delivered to wherever in the EU has the lowest VAT rate? 

And that is perfectly legit? 

Brendan


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## SparkRite (13 Mar 2019)

Not really Brendan, VAT is paid at point of sale within the EU regardless of which country within the EU it is being shipped to.

However as Amazon have a "presence" within Ireland they apply the Irish VAT rate to item being shipped here (uniquely, I think, but open to correction).


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## RedOnion (13 Mar 2019)

SparkRite said:


> However as Amazon have a "presence" within Ireland they apply the Irish VAT rate to item being shipped


No, nothing unique about it. Any company with cross border sales over a limit must do this. Selling into Ireland the limit is 35k.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeu


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Mar 2019)

Bear in mind you are also paying (Irish) VAT on the ParcelMotel fee.


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## SparkRite (13 Mar 2019)

RedOnion said:


> No, nothing unique about it. Any company with cross border sales over a limit must do this. Selling into Ireland the limit is 35k.
> 
> https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeu



However, notwithstanding that, over the years I have dealt with countless online companies, usually relativity small amounts,  and have yet to see a price change upon discovering my whereabouts.  Maybe this has happened but I can't recall it.
Unlike Amazon (topic) who regularly do apply the Irish rate.



NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Bear in mind you are also paying (Irish) VAT on the ParcelMotel fee.



I don't get the point you're trying to make, obviously you pay VAT on the services from an Irish company.


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## RedOnion (13 Mar 2019)

SparkRite said:


> However, notwithstanding that, over the years I have dealt with countless online companies


I would imagine a lot of small companies struggle with compliance. Just look at the posts here with vat questions, just in an Irish context. Cross border, and self charging for vat registered customers is a nightmare.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Mar 2019)

SparkRite said:


> I don't get the point you're trying to make, obviously you pay VAT on the services from an Irish company.



Precisely.


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## dub_nerd (22 Mar 2019)

Got a shock just now, checked the same item again and thought I'd seen Amazon UK introduce import fees to Ireland in anticipation of Brexit.  
Turns out I was accidentally on the US site. 
Also saw that I could have gotten it €35 cheaper from amazon.de than I paid to UK.


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## PMU (22 Mar 2019)

dub_nerd said:


> Also saw that I could have gotten it €35 cheaper from amazon.de than I paid to UK.


This is not always the case. I recently ordered an item from Amazon.co.uk. It cost GBP 63.79, which included VAT and came with free delivery . I paid for it in sterling but it should be about 73 EUR, when I get my credit card bill. I checked the same item on Amaxon.fr and it costs 79.99 EUR, and, as far as I can remember, Amazon.fr then adds VAT (and shipping ?) to your purchase. So I don't think that  online shopping in the eurozone is necessarily cheaper than in the UK. And some eurozone companies, e.g. Saturn in Germany, don't ship to Ireland (or didn't when I tried to place an order).


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## mathepac (22 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So if I buy something I should get it delivered to wherever in the EU has the lowest VAT rate?



No Brendan, shipped FROM where-ever has the lowest EU VAT rate, unless they have an arrangement with Revenue here to to charge Irish VAT. In the case of amazon.co.uk, if you have an item delivered to your Parcel Motel or AddressPal convenience address in the UK, UK VAT rates apply (-3%), delivery is *usually* free to "UK mainland" addresses (you'll see the charges on check-out  before you commit to buying) and you'll pay you €3/€4  delivery on collection this end.

It's not just about saving VAT, you can also buy stuff they won't ship to Ireland. There are goods amazon will ship to Ireland but IME, delivery charges can be prohibitive compared to Parcel Motel or AddressPal.


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## RedOnion (22 Mar 2019)

mathepac said:


> No Brendan, shipped FROM where-ever has the lowest EU VAT rate


No, Brendan was absolutely correct. Shipped to.
There is EU legislation covering this. Any EU business selling more than 35k of goods per annum to Ireland MUST register here for VAT and charge Irish VAT on sales to consumers in Ireland.


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## cremeegg (22 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So if I buy something I should get it delivered to wherever in the EU has the lowest VAT rate?



Now Brendan can get all his cycling gear shipped to Rugaria, which has 1% VAT. Then he can cycle over to collect it.


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