# Banking mistake, they want me to pay?



## lurkernomore (3 Apr 2009)

what is the forums view on this, i plan on going back in and demanding to see management

i lost my bankcard last saturday evening, rang on sunday evening to cancel my card and they said, fine, you'll recieve your new card in 7 days

2 days ago i recieve a letter saying my account is overdrawn so yesterday i call into the bank to discover that they havent cancelled my card and my account has been drained of £3600...£3200 on which was taken out on tuesday (how that is even possible i do not know)

the bank has sent off a dispute form which i will recieve and have to fill out in the next 10 days then they will investigate the issue (6-10weeks so i hear) 

i am clearly without this money for all this time, but surely as it was the banks mistake not to cancel the card when i requested them too, and to allow £3200 to be withdrawn on the one day, they are in the wrong and i should not be left in the lurch....

anyone have a similar view, should i just demand to speak to the manager until it is resolved on the spot


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## woodbine (3 Apr 2009)

how was the money withdrawn?

was a PIN used to access the account in a branch or an ATM?

i never withdraw money in a branch so can't remember, but i thought the PIN had to be used for all transcations?


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## lurkernomore (3 Apr 2009)

yes it would appear whoever got my card somehow got my pin aswell, the money was withdrawn at a tesco, then a different ATM (i think), but was also used for purchasing in mcdonalds and sainsburys...

my point with the bank is, i cancelled the card so anything after that point is surely there mistake and not something i should have to pay for.....or am i wrong?


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## Red (3 Apr 2009)

Was your initial call to the back recordered? I would check it out.
Most banks advise that all calls will be recorded


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## lurkernomore (3 Apr 2009)

yes it should have been recorded, it said it would be when i rang and i can give them the time and dates of the calls (had to ring twice to do it as they are fairly incompetent on the phone)


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## Padraigb (3 Apr 2009)

lurkernomore said:


> yes it would appear whoever got my card somehow got my pin aswell ...



How might they have got the PIN?


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## lurkernomore (3 Apr 2009)

not sure but the last time i tried to use my card was in a bar and the card was rejected, even though i tried it twice (this has never happened before) and that is where i believe i lost the card

my point is this though, if ive cancelled the card, and the bank havent done as i've asked, then that is there problem and not mine, and i shouldnt be made to pay for their mistake, from the records they have shown me, all money was taken out AFTER i rang to get the card cancelled


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## Guest110 (3 Apr 2009)

You should not be charged for any items once you notified them to cancel the card ! Maybe they never cancelled the card, or it took them a while before they got to do it, but either way, you should not be held liable.


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## Sunny (3 Apr 2009)

You are not liable for any transactions on your card after notifying them and getting it canceled. 
I am hearing though that it is getting more and more difficult to get the banks to pay up on fraudulent use of cards. They seem determined to stick to the idea that pin cards are 100% safe so you must have been negligent with the card and pin. Of course thats a load of rubbish. The cards are nowhere near 100% safe even with the pin technology.


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## Padraigb (3 Apr 2009)

lurkernomore said:


> not sure but the last time i tried to use my card was in a bar and the card was rejected, even though i tried it twice (this has never happened before) and that is where i believe i lost the card



 That sounds potentially suspicious to me. Was it a bar where you are known, and know the staff, or a busy place with throngs of revellers?



> my point is this though, if ive cancelled the card, and the bank havent done as i've asked, then that is there problem and not mine, and i shouldnt be made to pay for their mistake, from the records they have shown me, all money was taken out AFTER i rang to get the card cancelled



Broadly speaking, I think you are right, although you might have a problem with evidence where you have not given the instruction in writing. But you might be on shakier ground if you had done something stupid like keep a written note of the PIN in the same place as the card.


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## sam h (3 Apr 2009)

People can be very lax about their pin number....I have regularly stood behind someone in a shop & clearly seen them key in their number. 

The situation in the bar does sound dodgy....do you know the bar/people at all?

Re the bank - do you have the name of the person you spoke to?  I gerally try to start off one of those type of calls with "could I please have your full name & ext number?".  I find you are far more likely to get what ever you need done.


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## Smashbox (3 Apr 2009)

I guess from your post you are UK/NI based, who do you bank with?

Most banks (if not all) say that any transactions after you have cancelled your card will be covered by the bank themselves.

Have they given you a reason as to why your card wasnt cancelled?


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## mathepac (3 Apr 2009)

Smashbox said:


> I guess from your post you are UK/NI based...


NI is part of UK...


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## Bronte (3 Apr 2009)

Not trying to be off point but how do you use a normal ATM card in a pub?


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## mathepac (3 Apr 2009)

@ Bronte - Most ATM cards are debit-cards as well and go through the electronic reader for purchases / cash-back - is that what your question means?

Which reminds me - maybe OP's card went through a skimmer instead of or as well as a reader, which is how the PIN was captured. The usual precaution is not to allow the card out of your sight.


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## TarfHead (3 Apr 2009)

I assume the Gardai are aware of this ?

What's the time lag between you noticing your card as missing, and notifiying the bank ? Think of it from the bank's POV - they need to be sure that your version of events stands up.


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## Celtwytch (3 Apr 2009)

Some bars also have ATMs.


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## csirl (3 Apr 2009)

The date that appears on the statement for the withdrawal of the money may not correspond exactly to the date on which the withdrawal was made. If it is withdrawn on another banks machine it may take a couple of days for the data to show up on your account. Is it possible that the withdrawals were made before you cancelled the card?


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## chrisboy (3 Apr 2009)

How can you withdraw 3200 in one day on a card?


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## TarfHead (3 Apr 2009)

chrisboy said:


> How can you withdraw 3200 in one day on a card?


 
With help.


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## huskerdu (3 Apr 2009)

It is very easy to buy goods to the value of 3200 or more with a debit card. 
It is not stated in the OP, that the money was withdrawn from an ATM. 

I know of two people whose cards were stolen, and thousands were taken through purchases within hours.


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## TheShark (3 Apr 2009)

The sooner the banks open their eyes and realise that chip and PIN is far from as secure as they would like to believe the better.
There are numberous ways (which I wont go into here) that a PIN can be compromised totally unaware to the cardholder , banks taking the line that the cardholder was negligent is a cop-out.


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## mathepac (3 Apr 2009)

TheShark said:


> The sooner the banks open their eyes and realise that chip and PIN is far from as secure as they would like to believe the better.
> ...


The banks don't care that CHIP n' PIN is not secure. The system is cheaper to operate than the old verification methods and the onus is now on the customer to ensure that transactions are secure.

The mantra is now "Stupid customer, you failed to secure your PIN" for disputed transactions rather than "Stupid bank, that's not my signature".


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Apr 2009)

There are two isssues here. 

If the OP was negligent with his pin, then he has no claim in my opinion and should not be compensated. The bank has to investigate this. If he has used the card in an atm where there has been a scam, he will be compensated. 

The bank should have cancelled the card, but a chip and pin card is relatively safe and not cancelling it, is not the issue here.  I would guess that far more is defrauded through people who are careless about their pin than through organized fraud. 

The bank has to investigate it. It's not a time for ranting and raving. It's a time for putting out the facts and determining if the OP was negligent or not.

If the bank denies liability, then he can take the case to the Financial Services Ombudsman.


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## roro123 (3 Apr 2009)

On the timing of the transaction, it could be that a laser/debit card transaction was authorised and happened prior to the report of the stolen/lost card. I know from my card that it can take a few days for the transaction to come off after using a laser card. My available balance reduces but my ledger balance stays the same. If the OP was negligent with the PIN not covering their handset when keying for a previous transaction then they have inadvertently disclosed it much like calling it out loudly in a busy shop, also having the Pin written down and kept with the card would be negligent. 
To the OP. I would get the facts first, times of transaction authorisation etc. I would also question why a large transaction wasn't flagged based on suspiciuos activity, unless it was a number of small transactions. Its definitely not a cash withdrawal from an ATM because even over a weekend you would only get the max limit per day. Certainly not 3200 , I can only get 450 per day from an ATM


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## Lucille (5 Apr 2009)

When my PTSB card was skimmed (before it became Chip & Pin enabled) I was horrified to find out how much could have been bought on it. I am unsure of the exact figures now but I think it can be used up to 15 times a day even though the max cash withdrawal from ATM is Eur600 per day I think. When paying for large transactions like holidays or domestic appliances the shop simply splits the bill and does 2 transactions. I found out that it's not possible to have a limit put on one's account transactions like one can do with a a credit card.


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