# Personal Insolvency V Bankruptcy



## Sterizar (22 Jan 2014)

Hi there,

Long time reader - first time poster.

I am having difficulties meeting my mortgage repayments I require some opinions on the below.

I have got professional advice on my options but I am looking for posters experience using either of the below:

My options

1). Apply for a Personal insolvency

2). Seek bankruptcy here or in the UK. 

Below are my details.

Single male
Gross Salary €36k (2,300 Nett per month)
22 years remaining on Mortgage
Monthly repayments €947
No Mortgage arrears
Mortgage remaining approx 225k
Tracker mortgage
No other outstanding debt

I don’t live in the house during the week as I work in Dublin, so I also pay €650 p/m in rent. 

During times of unemployment I have exhausted all my personal savings €25-30k and put these into the mortgage paying the full amount, I have had 6 months of interest only, 6 months of part capital part interest, I applied to the bank seeking a long term solution and I was offered a repayment all the interest and part capital totalling €400 p/m for 15 months if my circumstances don’t change the bank will begin proceedings to re-posses the property.

At present irrespective of what decision I take, I feel I am really screwed. There is no chance of gaining employment in that part of the country where the house is located, so I will have to pay both the mortgage and rent on a very modest salary for the foreseeable future.

I am in debt and the banks only solution thus far is to push me further and further into debt.

So if anybody has experience of using either option or any advice I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2014)

Are you renting the rural house, or do you live in it at the weekends?  What is it's value.


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## Sterizar (23 Jan 2014)

Bronte said:


> Are you renting the rural house, or do you live in it at the weekends? What is it's value.



Hi Bronte,

 Thanks for the reply, the rural house is not rented, very very little demand, a lot of houses built in the second phase are still empty. The value is anywhere between 90 - 110k.

 The house is my primary residence. I have been very proactive with the lender but it seems I would have been better served if I was in arrears. I am unsure if I want to enter a 15 month period hand over €6,000 that I don't have only for the Bank to repossess the house. My circumstances will not change in the next 15 months, the best I can hope for is to still have a job.


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2014)

So in effect you are living in two places, have the extra costs of this, and are able to live off 703 Euro a month? What is the logic long term in this. Wouldn't you be better off in Dublin. I cannot see how it makes sense. Are you renting somewhere decent in Dublin, or are you just surviving?

How much rent could you get for the house?


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## Sterizar (23 Jan 2014)

Bronte said:


> So in effect you are living in two places, have the extra costs of this, and are able to live off 703 Euro a month? What is the logic long term in this. Wouldn't you be better off in Dublin. I cannot see how it makes sense. Are you renting somewhere decent in Dublin, or are you just surviving?
> 
> How much rent could you get for the house?



Yes if I want to work I have to live in two places, I am just about surviving, if I could rent the house I may get 400 -500 per month.

 Its 5 years since I have had any real income, in and out of work through not fault of my own, at this stage I am mentally exhausted, hoping for the bank to come to some sort of long term solution, I am been proactive can prove to them I used my savings to pay the loan etc. I don't know why they want the house because I am not paying a single cent of the unsecured portion if they do sell it. I would be better off on the dole but its not how I am.


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2014)

Sterizar said:


> . I don't know why they want the house because I am not paying a single cent of the unsecured portion if they do sell it. .


 
Well their's your trump card right there Sterizar.  How exactly do you propose not to pay the NE if they sell?

As for wondering why they want to sell it, that's their business, you're not able to pay it properly and they have to sort it out.  So that means selling it, and taking you for the NE.   You hardly think they are going to write down the loan to a level you could manage?  

If you rented somewhere decent full time, and forgot about this property, would you be better off?  Have a look at the figures you are allowed under the ISI lists.  Can you post up the figure on here please.


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## Sterizar (23 Jan 2014)

Bronte said:


> Well their's your trump card right there Sterizar. How exactly do you propose not to pay the NE if they sell?
> 
> As for wondering why they want to sell it, that's their business, you're not able to pay it properly and they have to sort it out. So that means selling it, and taking you for the NE. You hardly think they are going to write down the loan to a level you could manage?
> 
> If you rented somewhere decent full time, and forgot about this property, would you be better off? Have a look at the figures you are allowed under the ISI lists. Can you post up the figure on here please.



I feel I have done everything I can to meet the loan, I am not in arrears never have been despite having been years out of work, I was honest and straight with the lender, they have strung me along every 6 months sucking as much as they can out of me. I did not over borrow, got a 75% mortgage and the house is a modest one. I spent 20 years working to raise the money and any saving have been used to pay the mortgage, there is zero economic activity in the area so selling the house instead of coming to a long term solution where I can pay and they get their money back would I think be a better solution.

 As for not paying the NE portion, I am single no children well qualified so first plane out of here, and this time I will ignore every letter that comes my way, the lender and I are in this together WE have to come to a solution, simply demand money they know I don't have with threats isn't going to wash anymore.

 I have looked at the figure I am "allowed" under the ISI and its approx. €1100. 

 The only thing keeping me in the Country was the mortgage and in hindsight I would have been more difficult to deal with but the common advice was be proactive and pay what you can, if I had my time again I would have gone with my 25k in savings and let them have the house.


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## Bronte (23 Jan 2014)

Sterizar said:


> if I had my time again I would have gone with my 25k in savings and let them have the house.


 
I would probably agree with this too, but hindsight is great. At least you have the flight option, and you know that you did everything you could to keep it all going. I would just engage with the bank and see what happens, if you think they are going to pursue you, then you need to hint to them that you will be leaving, they might not come after you.

It's not the banks fault you are in this predicment though, so don't be bitter about them.  It's a waste of time and energy.


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## Sterizar (23 Jan 2014)

Bronte said:


> I would probably agree with this too, but hindsight is great. At least you have the flight option, and you know that you did everything you could to keep it all going. I would just engage with the bank and see what happens, if you think they are going to pursue you, then you need to hint to them that you will be leaving, they might not come after you.
> 
> It's not the banks fault you are in this predicment though, so don't be bitter about them. It's a waste of time and energy.



Thanks for the advice, that's why I am interested in the Bankruptcy,  I would disagree with you on it not been the Bank fault regarding my position, the Bank has despite my efforts early on to come to a long term solution have sucked me dry, it was always a case of if you can do this for 6 months then we will look at this option or that option, it never happened I came up with the solutions. If they do come after the house it will cost them thousands in legal fees, fees I won't be paying along with the NE, once I leave I will be forgetting about Ireland for a long time.


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## Matthew Moore (23 Jan 2014)

You may not be eligible for bankruptcy in Ireland considering your income. The allowances for a single person with no car is €900.08/m. From your income of €2300/m this leaves €1,399.92/m. Deduct your rent in Dublin of €650/m and you're left with €749.92/m to pay off the your debts if you are willing to walk away from the mortgage.
If the NE was converted to an unsecured debt after a sale then you could do a DSA. 
I understand your frustration at exhausting your savings and trying to do everything right. In reality as you were never in arrears they wouldn't entertain the idea of a long term solution. If that long term solution ever came I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have involved a write down with you keeping possession of the house.
I wouldn't recommend leaving the country without addressing the debt. You don't know how your circumstances will change and you don't want it coming back to bite you in the future.
As Bronte said, don't be bitter about the banks. It will achieve nothing. You've been proactive before and you can do it again. Address your problems and move on.


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