# CD wow settlement



## mollser (21 Jan 2004)

Looks like CD wow have lost.

Question - I know its early days yet, but I wonder will this affect purchasing off the hk website? They'll increase their prices on the uk and ire websites, but what about the HK one? Will they still allow us to purchase off it?? Anyway, get your purchases in before Sunday!

[broken link removed]

CD Wow forced to stop parallel importing 
By Richard Milne 
Published: January 21 2004 12:47 | Last Updated: January 21 2004 12:47 


UK consumers face the prospect of paying more for CDs bought on the internet after the music industry forced a leading online retailer to stop parallel importing.


Hong Kong-based CD Wow has agreed to stop sourcing CDs from outside the European Economic Area (EEA), in particular from Asia, in a move that will add £2 to its retail price.

The British Phonographic Industry said on Wednesday that it had settled its legal action - due for court early next month - with CD Wow, one of the internet's biggest success stories in the UK with a turnover last year estimated at £100m ($181.7m).

"It is hugely disappointing," said Philip Robinson, director of CD Wow. "It is very much the consumer who loses out."

He said that prices on cdwow.co.uk would rise from £8.99 to £10.99 from Sunday and that impact margins would take a substantial hit.

Music industry insiders said they were delighted with the result. "It is not the consumer that will suffer, just CD Wow's profit margins. They made a lot of money out of cheap CDs," one insider said.

The settlement represents the music industry's first success in its battle against parallel imports, where genuine CDs are purchased in one country before being sold in another without the copyright owner's consent.

The BPI is also investigating amazon.com, the world's largest online retailer, and has issued legal proceedings against play.com, a Jersey-based company, over parallel imports.

The decision only affects CD Wow's business in the UK and Ireland but it faces lawsuits in other countries, including Germany, from the record industry.

"Yes, it's a blow. But it is not a life-threatening blow," he said, adding that the CDs, which now will all be bought within the EEA, would still be shipped from Hong Kong.

Consumer groups reacted with dismay to the news saying that the music industry had chosen the wrong strategy to increase sales.

CD sales rose by 7.6 per cent last year, defying a downward trend globally, but critics say that this was due to the lower prices of online retailers and supermarkets.

"It's terrible news," said Phil Evans, principal policy adviser at the Consumers' Association. "We are back to Fortress UK and Ireland.

"It's just a travesty that an industry is allowed to segment the global market and charge higher prices in some parts than others. What is the point of global free trade?"

The BPI admitted that the CDs imported by CD Wow were genuine products bought from subsidiaries of UK record companies but argued that they had been sold without the consent of the companies.

The BPI released a short statement on the settlement. Peter Jamieson, BPI chairman, said: "I am delighted that we have been able to resolve this case on agreed terms without the need for a trial."

The BPI declined to comment further.


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## daltonr (21 Jan 2004)

*Shocking*



> Music industry insiders said they were delighted with the result. "It is not the consumer that will suffer, just CD Wow's profit margins. They made a lot of money out of cheap CDs," one insider said.



Will the price increase to the consumer?  YES!
Therefore it's the consumer who will suffer.

This is shocking stuff.
It sets a very dangerous precedent.

-Rd


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (21 Jan 2004)

As somebody said to me earlier - if only some of these capitalist countries actually believed in free trade... :|


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## paulie (21 Jan 2004)

*BPI bast...*

I find it pathetic that squIRMA managed to get someone else to do their dirty work. What have the BRITISH Phonogrpahic Industry got to do with Ireland???

I also assume that this agreement will have no effect on DVD's and games sold on the site.

0, I think that the HK site will probably also increase its prices by the equivalent of £2 in HK dollars. The increases will be added when checked against the shipping address.


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## shnaek (21 Jan 2004)

*cdwow*

This is grim news indeed. They are the only reason I buy as many cds as I do. I guess I'll have to download Kazaa again.


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## Ham Slicer (21 Jan 2004)

*Re: cdwow*

Seriously depressing news.

I wonder will Mary Hanrney be advising us where to shop now.


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## zag (21 Jan 2004)

*Re: cdwow*

Great timing.

My piggpoints from a Dell purchase finally came through and I was about to order a few CDs (simply because there's not much else usefull to be ordered) in the next week or two.

Guess this means that the pigsback.com prices will go up again.

Rats.

z


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## mollser (21 Jan 2004)

*Re: cdwow*



> Music industry insiders said they were delighted with the result. "It is not the consumer that will suffer, just CD Wow's profit margins. They made a lot of money out of cheap CDs," one insider said.



How arrogant are they?? They really do know how to market themselves well, don't they??  :\  (what happened the frowny face one??)

I wonder how much of a precedent this will set, given it's an out of court settlement. There's no doubt that CdWOW have been bullied into submission here, as they wouldn't be able to afford to compete in court. I have no question that Amazon will not be so easy to beat. There are still some very dodgy holes in the BPI's accusations, and there'll be interesting times ahead if this does end up in court...


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (21 Jan 2004)

*Re: cdwow*



> what happened the frowny face one??



I think the most appropriate one in this context is: :mad


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## Alan Moore (21 Jan 2004)

*A tough week Zag......*

First VRT and now this.

I don't think it will effect "Region 2 DVDs" or "PAL Computer Games" i.e. European DVDs & Games as I would have thought that they were sourced within Europe.

Wonder what will happen the HK site. Will they add a charge if shipping is to UK/EIRE?


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## mollser (21 Jan 2004)

*Re: A tough week Zag......*

Just thought, whats their beef with Play.com? Where do they source their discs from? I'd imagine they're from within Europe, or am I wrong? If they are from within Europe, what are they suing them for? Undercutting the high street? :mad  (tanks 0)


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## Alan Moore (21 Jan 2004)

*I'd imagine that................*

The beef is that Play may also be sourcing CD's outside of the EC. Again it may not be the  DVD Region 2 stuff.


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## fish (22 Jan 2004)

*The BPI*

You can contact the BPI at mailto:general@bpi.co.uk to inform them of your happiness for them. Or not.

fish


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## broke (22 Jan 2004)

*timing*

Do we know how soon the surcharge will take effect?

Is it immediate?


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## Alan Moore (22 Jan 2004)

*Methinks....*

The deal has to kick in by Sunday. However have noticed that CD-WOW had put up their charges recently so I reckon some/all of the increase may have been factored in already.


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## garrettod (22 Jan 2004)

*CDWoW - (NOT) supported by Mary Harney & Co !*

Hi,

Indeed this is sad news & an end to my great CD collection as there is no way I will be buying anything like as many CDs at the new increased prices.

I must say I was very pleased to see the great Mary Harney supporting CDWoW & speaking out to say that this deal would not be recognised in Ireland, where she would support CDWoW & encourage them to ship within Ireland from any location here they liked, as long as they kept their prices stable & created a bit of employment.  She is all talk & here is another example of it, I fear  

Still, in addition to writting to those "nice people" (see below for meaning   ) that Fish has made referance to above, to express our dis-satisfaction, I reckon our local politicans should also get a load of complaints from us too ! - lets remind them that we don't like Rip Off Ireland & this is yet another example of why, they won't be getting our vote next time around !

Needless to say, the real impact of this kinda news about CD prices increasing etc is that piracy will most likely increase !

Regards

G>

ps - for those of you wondering what "nice people" really means ... lets just say it's something I won't post on this site out of respect for Brendan & the others here who contribute to this site.


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## garrettod (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: CD Rip Offs - Complain & Spread The Word !!!!*

Hi,

Just a follow up, a guy (Agent007) on * Rpoints.com * had posted the following quote - so I thought I'd copy it over along with my response .....




> According to the BPI this is good for us * "It is not the consumer that will suffer, just CD Wow's profit margins"!*



... eh, I think the BPI are talking "Poo"  





> Anyone wanting to e-mail the BPI & tell them what you think of their quote, can do so on the following e-mail address:
> 
> general@bpi.co.uk
> 
> Feel free to pass on this address to all you know - while I'd never suggest they should be spammed, I do think they would welcome some feedback from their customers (well, we are their customers, indirectly are we not ?)




If we can do it to help fix the votes on various internet campaigns, then we can surely do it to set up a long list of complaints via e-mail to this lot so pass the above e-mail addresss onto all the people you know  

Good work on providing the e-mail Fish  

Regards

G>


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## Ham Slicer (22 Jan 2004)

*Message from CD WOW*

Received this email.  It may answer some of your questions:

CD WOW! - An Important Announcement

Dear Member,

The UK Major record companies through their mouth piece the BPI* have unfortunately restricted the UK and Irish consumers right to enjoy the freedom of the World Wide Web.

As from this weekend, any CD ordered for delivery to the UK and Ireland will incur a surcharge as we are only able to deliver CDs manufactured within the EU (more expensive).

Delivery to the rest of the world will not be affected.

You only have a few days left - so order now!

Be quick to make the best of our current low low prices while you can still exercise your right to choose.

We will of course still be supplying UK and Irish customers but as of Sunday 25th January 2004 a surcharge of 3.00 Euros (£2.00) per CD will apply.

Please Note - our prices of DVDs and Games will remain unaffected

Warmest Regards,
CD WOW!


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## ajapale (22 Jan 2004)

*Is the Republic of Ireland an Independent Country?*

Since when does the English High Court in London have juristiction in the Republic of Ireland?

Ajapale


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## mollser (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: Is the Republic of Ireland an Independent Country?*

Bizarrely enough, I got 2 cd's in the post yesterday, as ordered from the CDWow.hk website, so just over €10 each.

The Thrills and Good Charlotte. 

The Thrills was manufactured in the EU, and Good Charlotte was manufactured in Austria, hence, both were sourced from within Europe.

This leaves serious flaws in the argument of the BPI.


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## LoveCDWow (22 Jan 2004)

*expensive workaround*

It's a disgrace. :mad 

I'm only save that I fly to germany quite frequently (long distance relationship) thanks to reasonable airfairs with Aerlingus.  (Ryanair is not providing me with a suitable service but that's another topic.)
So I'll be having my cds shipped to Germany and collect them on one of my visits or my boyfriend's return visit. 

One way of stock piling cheap cds. Of course it will mean a longer wait time.  But if I wanted a cd without the wait I'd go to the high street. As if!


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## Alan Moore (22 Jan 2004)

*Slightly confused.....*

If CD-WOW are sourcing some of their cd's in Europe (as  I understand from Mollser, must check my own) why is the surcharge applying across the board on all CDs to Ireland rather than just on those that are produced outside Europe?


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## daltonr (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: expensive workaround*

This has all the feel of something with no basis in law at all.  It sounds like CDWow just wasn't up for the fight.

The agreement is that CDWow will stop sourcing their CD's outside Europe.  But CDWow is a Hong Kong Based company, why should they source CD's in Europe at all?

And why are CDWow doing deals with the UK and Ireland anyway, Surely the deal should be Europe wide or else it is not a real legal deal but just an agreement.  Are they still going to be able to ship Asian sourced goods to Germany for example?

Did you ever get the feeling that even the journalists writing about the story don't understand what's going on?

-Rd


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## Elcato (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: Slightly confused.....*

Just on Garretrods point I've got loads of people sending in their disgust directly to IRMA just to piss them off as well so don't be afraid to tell them you're not gonna buy any CDs anymore because of this.
e-mail is info@irma.ie


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## mollser (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: Slightly confused.....*

Yup Alan, those 2 were definitely from Europe, although they are the first 2 i've noticed which haven't been from Asia (but thats beside the point   ) (oh -and not that its the first thing I check!)

But this gets fishier then. Say, for example The Thrills. I'd imagine there is a limited enough market in Asia for this CD, so they probably take some of the European stock. It is obviously produced cheaply enough in Europe to be sold at at a profit in Asia, at a lower price, and in turn sold on by CD wow also at a profit. Which would indicate that there is little difference in the cost of production per CD between Europe and Asia. So they're just blatantly ripping off Europeans.

It looks like the HK site has put up their pre release CD's by $2 as well - thats 2 Hong Kong $'s, ie €0.20! I wonder was this a clever trick by them? As long as they don't market the HK site here, they may just get away with it - for a little while at least? I won't get my hopes up just yet...


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## car (23 Jan 2004)

*cdwow*

guy from cdwow was on rte1 this morning.   
in brief:..he said they didnt want to be associated with a case like this in the courts and felt that it was rather a case for consumer agencies.  (I see his point)
He declined to comment on whether there was a settlement figure involved apart from the 3 euro on the price of a cd.  
He also wouldnt say how much the irish market was worth other then that there was 300000 plus customers and the irish market was worth several million. 
300000 seems an awful lot, maybe there was that many transactions but that amount of customers?


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## euroDilbert (23 Jan 2004)

*Re: cdwow*

From the irma website 





> CD WOW! has agreed that it will not sell CDs that have been first placed on the market outside Europe to UK and Irish customers. It will only sell CDs that have first been placed on the European market to UK and Irish customers.



So, they can actually be manufactured anywhere. Recently, I've started checking the country of manufacture, and as often as not, they come from N.America or Europe. It's a marketing/copyright argument, not a manufacturing one.

So, if a CD is manufactured in, say, the UK and wholesaled at €5 in Asia and €8 in Ireland, CDWOW are not allowed to resell the Asian ones, only the (exactly identical) Irish ones.

These CDs are priced on the basis of what the market will bear locally. Personally, they've exceeded my limit.


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## 46a (28 Jan 2004)

*cd-wow*

I havent bought cds in years.  CDWOW got me going again. Back to KAzaa or Tesco or illegal copying. My point - I was prepared to buy legit when affordable.

However I've thought of a solution. Order in normal way but change delivery address to a country ouside Irl & UK and get a mate to send them on minus the jewel case a couple of days later using their office post.

If you buy a lot you could send over SAEs !


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## legend99 (29 Jan 2004)

*..*

Just bought off the Hong Kong site...DVDs. They do not have a surcharge but there is pop-ups all over the site saying if delivery is to Ireland/Uk there is a surcharge of 28.99 honk kong dollars. (3 euro)

Incidentally, can the post office technically step in and demand payment of exise duty/vat etc??? I.E. You get a nice letter from them saying if you give them about a million euro you can get your DVD off them in some inaccessible sorting office??


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## okidoki987 (29 Jan 2004)

*Re: ..*

I thought the surcharge only effected CD's and not DVD'S?
CdWow in HK have "Finding Nemo" Region 2 for 20 Euro (190 HK Dollars) assuming an exchange rate of about 9.5 to the EURO on the credit card. Wholesale rate is 9.73 at the moment so I'm assuming they won't charge any more then 2.5% mark up? 
Anybody know if the DVD is any cheaper then that anywhere else?


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## legend99 (29 Jan 2004)

*..*

I hope not...i just bought the Finding Nemo DVD off the CD wow HK site.
Actually quick question.....they list a region 2 version, and then a region 2+4 version. Is there a difference in the content??? OR do you know?


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## okidoki987 (5 Feb 2004)

*Re: ..*

Finding NEMO DVD on HK site is now HKD 225.00!
It's 14 GBP on www.splashdvd.com plus 1 stg postage but if it's your first time using them, you get a 2 GBP off-voucher.
(about 19 EURO against 23.68 on CD WOW.)


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## cuchullain (6 Feb 2004)

*cd wow*

Legend99
the post office dont charge anything for delivery of cd's etc. IF Customs and Excise put a charge on a parcel they have a duty to collect it or return the parcel to Customs to have the duty reversed and the parcel returned to sender. there is a handling charge added to the customs charge as they have to collect the cash and remit it to Customs. As the customs mostly ignore the ordinary punter this seldom happens. If you order ciggies over the net though the Customs will definitely put a charge on the parcel.
Dont confuse An Post with that firm in Blanchardstown who get all the American Parcels to deliver but dont usually bother.General Logistics or something similar.


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## soy (6 Feb 2004)

*CDWOW & VAT*

There is a limit under which they do not apply VAT probably because of the hassle.  Cannot remember but think it is something like 35 euro. 
There is a usually a label on the package that indicates the value of the goods being shipped.
As CDWOW send items individually you are unlikely to ever get caught for VAT.


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## homegirl (6 Feb 2004)

*CD WOW update*

just got this email from CD Wow this morning.....

Dear Member,

WOW! We've been able to remove the additional charges for deliveries to the Ireland and UK on CDs.

We've been working our little cotton socks off to source our Chart Albums within the EU at the lowest possible price and cutting our margins even more.

In simple terms, from today the additional charges are no longer applicable. Chart CDs remain at EUR 13.95* including deliveries to the Ireland - yippeee!

There have been a few cutbacks in the office, I'm working out of the YMCA and using an etch-a-sketch as my PC was sold.

But fear not - you get our great CD price - and I'm loving the YMCA tomato soup!

Thank you for your overwhelming support!


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