# Advice needed on my 1st mgmt company AGM



## gebbel

I'm an owner occupier of an apartment in a small development of 16 units, made up of 8 units per block. I have never bothered attending an AGM before but will go next week to voice my concerns and dissatisfaction with certain issues. The main ones being:

1. I believe 6 of the units are not paying mgmt fees and want to demand that more be done to pressurize the owners. 

2. The blocks need an external coat of paint but the word is there is no cash.

3. Furnished accounts for last year show stationary costs of €1000. A couple of letters are posted out per year and the accounts info once per year. Why can't they be dropped in etc....does paper really cost that much? I want clarification on this. A grand may not get the paint job done would be a good start.

The AGM will also discuss a new director being appointed. I don't want to make a show of myself but I want my voice heard without taking over the meeting. 

Not sure what my question is now.....just ask them for answers is it?

Cheers


----------



## ontour

6 units not paying their fees from a complex of 16 units is very serious especially if it continuing over a number of years.

Do you know what the management company has done to recover the fees?  Are the units owner occupied or rented?  Have the management company looked at appointing a rent receiver?

If the block painting is purely aesthetic, it is understandable that this would not be done when 40% of the management fees are not being paid.

With such a small development and your interest in it's running, the directors should encourage your involvement in the board/ committee to get the MC back on track.


----------



## uptomyeyesin

I would advise submitting your questions to the managing co or agent in advance of the AGM so they can have answers to them. 

They should be covering the debtors situation regardless as this is very important, the other two items could be logged and answered. 

I am assuming you have an agent, perhaps it is just directors who manage it all. 

If possible, I would advise you to volunteer to get more involved, offer to help and review the stationary costs to see if you can get a better quote or deal for them. It does seem a bit much for post updates. In our estate of 900+ units, the annual stationary is €5000.


----------



## lantus

gebbel said:


> I'm an owner occupier of an apartment in a small development of 16 units, made up of 8 units per block. I have never bothered attending an AGM before but will go next week to voice my concerns and dissatisfaction with certain issues. The main ones being:
> 
> 1. I believe 6 of the units are not paying mgmt fees and want to demand that more be done to pressurize the owners.
> 
> 2. The blocks need an external coat of paint but the word is there is no cash.
> 
> 3. Furnished accounts for last year show stationary costs of €1000. A couple of letters are posted out per year and the accounts info once per year. Why can't they be dropped in etc....does paper really cost that much? I want clarification on this. A grand may not get the paint job done would be a good start.
> 
> The AGM will also discuss a new director being appointed. I don't want to make a show of myself but I want my voice heard without taking over the meeting.
> 
> Not sure what my question is now.....just ask them for answers is it?
> 
> Cheers


 

No doubt the budget or 2014 will provide insight into where the money gets spent. Block insurance being a priority and things like fire alarms, sinking funds, accounting, admin, CRO fee's, auditor being of a priority before the nice finishing touches like the flowers and paint which are the bits everyone want to see can be paid for.

Do you have an agent or is it directly managed (something that is becoming more popular nowadays as directors/residents take control of their developments and future.)

what is the arrears total? have your common areas been transferred?

We have 200+ units and our admin costs run at around €500 inc. postage.

Its understandable that people are angry but try to ask yourself what the solutions are? Is it enough just to complain? I'm sure that the directors are aware of the problems as will be most people. It is the creation of viable and workable solutions that is the challenge.

In terms of alternatives like dropping in letters who does all this work? There are a lot of directors that will invest hundreds of hours for free as its an unpaid position but people forget the scale of the work required and often believe that the fairies just do everything.

The workload of a director is like an iceberg from my experience. Over 90% lies below the surface making endless phone calls, getting quotes, writing letters, doing accounts, arranging meetings, dealing with problems and issues and regulations etc. An almost endless list of jobs many of which are recurring and unless your there next to them go unseen and un-thanked.

So; great that you are taking an interest in your company. But remember that the strength of that company lies in the collective power of its members to work together to achieve specific goals. 

In terms of unpaid fee's these could be distressed properties or just genuine people in hardship or strategic 'players'. What does the development make up in terms of common areas and services allow you to do in terms of applying pressure. Is parking control an option?

If a person has lost their job and has no money then taking them to court to get a judgement may make no sense if they have money to pay you. The cost to get a forced sale or rent receiver which are additional steps are also cost hungry exercises and may not yield results. The directors may be saving money by not throwing thousands into legal holes where no recovery may be viable. Of course they may just have no balls or more likely no money as with reduced units there is no economy of scale and likely no money to invest in such a process.

I always find most anger stems from people having limited understanding of how the overall management company process works. Its not a perfect system even with the MUD act and in my opinion not enough power is in the hands of the company in particular with respect to service fee dodgers. There should be a simpler, quicker process where members fail to pay.


----------



## gebbel

The AGM was tonight in a local pub and was an informal gathering of 7 owners, out of 16 units. I didn't know all but one of them well. One of the 2 outgoing directors was present. The revelations at the meeting were staggering. Allegations of financial impropriety, mismanagement of funds, monies paid to the 2nd director (who wasn't present and has recently resigned) for services rendered, €1400 in stationary charges last year for a few sheets of printed paper and 16 stamped envelopes (it all stank to high heaven). Many of us are guilty of failing to spot this years ago. I never even studied the account statements until 2 months ago and I'm here 6 years.

Some of the owners admitted to not having paid managment fees for years due to their suspicions, lack of transparency and communication. In hindsight they were right as some of their money would no doubt have been channeled where it shouldn't. The 'good' director who is also resigning told of how the other director routinely went solo on signing cheques and failed to inform her what they were for. She seemed honest but reminded me of the financial regulator we had during the boom. The block insurance is up to date but there is nothing, and I mean zilch in the sinking fund.

I was asked to be one of the new directors and I accepted. I have committed to try and find out more about the irregularities. Others have pledged to pay their outstanding charges once they feel more confident about the mgmt company. 

I went there to vent and came home with responsibility I hadn't banked on, or don't know if I'm capable of delivering on.  But it's good to know the crooks who ruled the roost are gone, and they should be made accountable if at all possible.


----------



## lantus

gebbel said:


> The AGM was tonight in a local pub and was an informal gathering of 7 owners, out of 16 units. I didn't know all but one of them well. One of the 2 outgoing directors was present. The revelations at the meeting were staggering. Allegations of financial impropriety, mismanagement of funds, monies paid to the 2nd director (who wasn't present and has recently resigned) for services rendered, €1400 in stationary charges last year for a few sheets of printed paper and 16 stamped envelopes (it all stank to high heaven). Many of us are guilty of failing to spot this years ago. I never even studied the account statements until 2 months ago and I'm here 6 years.
> 
> Some of the owners admitted to not having paid managment fees for years due to their suspicions, lack of transparency and communication. In hindsight they were right as some of their money would no doubt have been channeled where it shouldn't. The 'good' director who is also resigning told of how the other director routinely went solo on signing cheques and failed to inform her what they were for. She seemed honest but reminded me of the financial regulator we had during the boom. The block insurance is up to date but there is nothing, and I mean zilch in the sinking fund.
> 
> I was asked to be one of the new directors and I accepted. I have committed to try and find out more about the irregularities. Others have pledged to pay their outstanding charges once they feel more confident about the mgmt company.
> 
> I went there to vent and came home with responsibility I hadn't banked on, or don't know if I'm capable of delivering on. But it's good to know the crooks who ruled the roost are gone, and they should be made accountable if at all possible.


 
Well lets hope your tenure as director is rewarding and educational!

First things are to get your position lodged with the CRO and get the bank to cancel the cheque book and single signed operations. If he can sign off on cheques then so can she. We need two directors to sign on everything and it provides some oversight on everything.

Next get the accounts and see where the money went. If it cannot be accounted for then you could lodge a formal complaint with the ODCE if you can provide evidence of fraud or other serious offences. If your articles indicate that there should be no director salaries then the issue of money's paid is serious.

Try to get more people involved in sub committees. Remember that the financial stuff relating to arrears is data protection covered so never divulge it to anyone but a director.

get your directors insurance in place.

There are a hundred other things you can or need to do. Hopefully the other director will help and support you. If you don't have one write the ODCE and get a free hard copy of the guide to management companies, great night time read.

lastly on the bad director don't waste to much time trying to be detective. The law tends to protect company directors and you could invest hundreds of hours and get nothing, time better spent on moving forward. Make sure you write to all members outlining the changes and your new leadership and intention to improve with their support! Changes to the bank account and money strings will help put people's minds at ease. If you can get an email for each member you can communicate very cheaply and more often for updates and news.


----------



## Vanessa

You are a Director now so be sure that you have knowledge of your responsibilities. Information can be got from the Companies Office. Also be sure that you have access to a copy of your lease agreement to see what is and is not permitted.
16 units should not be that difficult to manage if a proper management structure is in place.
No arrears should be written off. A campaign to recover arrears should commence immediately. Give those in arrears one more opportunity to pay, outline what they owe and the interest rates applicable to arrears. Some will respond and pay. Others must be dealt with by solicitor.
Perhaps a cover letter explaining that a new management teams is in place and that plans are in place to redecorate the block etc. Nothing can be done without money and standard matters such as insurance, waste collection, cleaning takes priority. Look at where any costs can be saved. Use e mail to maintain lines of communication with owners and perhaps a quarterly update on matters would help


----------



## gebbel

Rather than start a new thread I'll carry on here. I'll post some points relating to my involvement in the mgmt co. so far:

1. It turns out that 5 of the units are in arrears, averaging €600 each. Nobody owes in excess of €1000. 

2. Having spoken to some of them, the majority stopped paying altogether in the last 3 years due to concerns about how the funds were being spent.

3. Some tenants want more investigation into the €1000 stationary fees of 2012. They cannot accept it. 

4. The previous Director paid himself €450 in fees. The chequebook also shows him spending on credit for his phone. There may be impropriety here.

5. There is no money provided for a sinking fund. Units were built in late 2005. I'm there since 2007.

6. The previous directors were getting their mates to do odd jobs, like cutting lawns, and paying them plenty for it.

7. The accountant was charging €1200 for preparing the accounts. I called him to tell him that we will not be renewing his services. He has now offered to do the job for €500 plus VAT. I'm still shopping around here.

8. We were fined €100 plus an additional €3 per day (for 7 days) for the late submission of accounts to the CRO office. 

All that can be said is now things are getting back on track. There will be no charges for stationary in 2014 and while I'm involved. I will print & hand deliver any correspondence myself voluntarily, or email where appropriate.


----------



## Joe_90

Great to see someone getting involved in their own management company.

All relevant points I think although I think your accountant is mad doing an audit for €500 plus VAT.  I can't imagine you doing much better for an audited set of accounts.


----------



## STEINER

This is quite a small mgmt co with 16 units.  There can't be that many financial transactions to process or audit, with a bank account, 16 fee invoices per annum and a few supplier invoices per month.  

What is the annual fee per unit here?  I live in a 700+ unit development and my annual fee is ~ €1.5k.


----------



## Joe_90

Only 16 invoices and look at the issues:



> 1. It turns out that 5 of the units are in arrears, averaging €600 each. Nobody owes in excess of €1000. * should there be a bad debt provision, correspondence with solicitors and review of minutes of directors meetings discussing the issue.  Review leases to see if the management company has the power to withhold permission to sell to ensure payment.*
> 
> 2. Having spoken to some of them, the majority stopped paying altogether in the last 3 years due to concerns about how the funds were being spent. * despite receiving the accounts every year and having the authority to remove the directors the default position is to stop paying fees *
> 
> 3. Some tenants want more investigation into the €1000 stationary fees of 2012. They cannot accept it. * clearly the auditor should have reviewed and made an assessment about the validity of the expenditure*
> 
> 4. The previous Director paid himself €450 in fees. The chequebook also shows him spending on credit for his phone. There may be impropriety here.
> 
> 5. There is no money provided for a sinking fund. Units were built in late 2005. I'm there since 2007.* absolutely but the members are supposed to contribute €200 per annum to the sinking fund so the annual fee goes up*
> 
> 6. The previous directors were getting their mates to do odd jobs, like cutting lawns, and paying them plenty for it.
> 
> 7. The accountant was charging €1200 for preparing the accounts. I called him to tell him that we will not be renewing his services. He has now offered to do the job for €500 plus VAT. I'm still shopping around here.
> 
> 8. We were fined €100 plus an additional €3 per day (for 7 days) for the late submission of accounts to the CRO office.
> 
> All that can be said is now things are getting back on track. There will be no charges for stationary in 2014 and while I'm involved. I will print & hand deliver any correspondence myself voluntarily, or email where appropriate.



In most cases the services start to be reduced as the unpaid service charges increase, then people stop paying the service charges because the services are reduced and on it goes until the insurance can't be paid.

It's not just about 16 invoices!


----------



## T McGibney

gebbel said:


> 7. The accountant was charging €1200 for preparing the accounts. I called him to tell him that we will not be renewing his services. He has now offered to do the job for €500 plus VAT. I'm still shopping around here.



You should dump him. It is dishonest to pretend that it is possible to properly & legally audit a functioning management company for €500 plus VAT. 

If you want cheaper accountants fees for your management company (as everyone does) you should lobby your councillors and TD's to abolish the compulsory statutory audit for owners' management companies.


----------



## lantus

gebbel said:


> Rather than start a new thread I'll carry on here. I'll post some points relating to my involvement in the mgmt co. so far:
> 
> 1. It turns out that 5 of the units are in arrears, averaging €600 each. Nobody owes in excess of €1000.
> 
> 2. Having spoken to some of them, the majority stopped paying altogether in the last 3 years due to concerns about how the funds were being spent.
> 
> 3. Some tenants want more investigation into the €1000 stationary fees of 2012. They cannot accept it.
> 
> 4. The previous Director paid himself €450 in fees. The chequebook also shows him spending on credit for his phone. There may be impropriety here.
> 
> 5. There is no money provided for a sinking fund. Units were built in late 2005. I'm there since 2007.
> 
> 6. The previous directors were getting their mates to do odd jobs, like cutting lawns, and paying them plenty for it.
> 
> 7. The accountant was charging €1200 for preparing the accounts. I called him to tell him that we will not be renewing his services. He has now offered to do the job for €500 plus VAT. I'm still shopping around here.
> 
> 8. We were fined €100 plus an additional €3 per day (for 7 days) for the late submission of accounts to the CRO office.
> 
> All that can be said is now things are getting back on track. There will be no charges for stationary in 2014 and while I'm involved. I will print & hand deliver any correspondence myself voluntarily, or email where appropriate.


 
 Don't absorb costs yourself. While noble no one will thank you for it. The company should and must pay for these costs. Just do it normally and record all your costs for paper, printing etc. The company should buy cheap laser printer for sub €100 as we did which can print thousands of pages at very little cost.

 I would be hesitant at giving your accountant any more money. I have had multiple quotes for audits at 600-900 so I would not expect an audit to cost that much these days. It is contrary to myth a very simple and straightforward process that doesn't involve much time or effort on the part of the auditor and smaller companies and organisations like OMCs are even simpler as there is no VAT or other complicated issues that normally trading companies have.


----------



## Joe_90

T McGibney said:


> You should dump him. It is dishonest to pretend that it is possible to properly & legally audit a functioning management company for €500 plus VAT.
> 
> If you want cheaper accountants fees for your management company (as everyone does) you should lobby your councillors and TD's to abolish the compulsory statutory audit for owners' management companies.



Spot on.  I believe it is proposed that the audit exemption will be available to companies limited by guarantee in the Companies Bill.


----------



## T McGibney

lantus said:


> I have had multiple quotes for audits at 600-900 so I would not expect an audit to cost that much these days. It is contrary to myth a very simple and straightforward process that doesn't involve much time or effort on the part of the auditor and smaller companies and organisations like OMCs are even simpler as there is no VAT or other complicated issues that normally trading companies have.




Is this for real? 

The Procedures for Quality Audit are mandatory in one form or another, for all audits.  Here is their Index based on these sample pages of the excel version.



> End User Licence Agreement	EULA
> Signed Documents
> Copies of Signed Financial Statements	A1.1 and A1.2
> Signed Letter of Representation	A2
> Audit Completion
> Matters Forward Checklist	A3
> Independent Partner/Hot File (Issues) Review 	A4
> Audit Completion 	A5.1
> File Completion Checklist	A5.2
> Significant matters	A6
> Review of Communications to Those Charged with Governance	A7
> Letter of Representation Review	A8
> Summary of Errors Schedule	A9.1
> Summary of Errors - Work programme	A9.2
> Review of Financial Statements and Final Analytical Review	A10.1
> Common Omissions - Republic of Ireland	A10.2a
> Common Omissions - Northern Ireland	A10.2b
> Financial Statements Call-Over Checklist	A10.3
> Post Balance Sheet Events 	A11
> Going Concern 	A12.1
> Going Concern Questionnaire	A12.2
> The Audit Report	A13
> Fraud	A14
> Planning
> Acceptance of Appointment or Re-appointment 	B1
> Audit Planning Checklist	B1.1
> Audit Planning Memorandum	B2
> Materiality	B3
> Opening Balances/Comparatives	B4
> Audit Exemption - Republic of Ireland	B5
> Audit Exemption - Northern Ireland	B5.1
> Internal Control Review
> Internal Control and Accounting Systems	C1
> Internal Control – Maintenance of Books and Records	C2
> Financial Statement Areas
> Intangible Fixed Assets - Lead Schedule	D-
> Intangible Fixed Assets  - Work Programme	D1
> Tangible Fixed Assets  - Lead Schedule	E-
> Tangible Fixed Assets - Work Programme	E1
> Investments  - Lead Schedule	F-
> Investments - Work Programme	F1
> Stocks and Work In Progress  - Lead Schedule	G-
> Stock and Work in Progress - Work Programme	G1
> Stock and Work in Progress – Attendance Substantive Tests	G2
> Debtors - Lead Schedule	H-
> Debtors - Work Programme	H1
> Bank Balances and Cash in Hand  - Lead Schedule	I-
> Bank Balances and Cash in Hand - Work Programme	I1
> Creditors - Lead Schedule	J-
> Creditors - Work Programme	J1
> Taxation  - Lead Schedule	K-
> Taxation - Work Programme	K1
> Liabilities, Contingencies and Charges	L1
> Statutory Matters, Share Capital and Reserves  - Lead Schedule	M-
> Statutory Matters, Share Capital and Reserves - Work Programme	M1
> Sales and Income 	N1
> Purchases and Expenses	O1
> Salaries and Wages  - Lead Schedule	P-
> Salaries and Wages - Work Programme	P1
> Related Parties 	Q1
> Compliance with Laws and Regulations	R1
> Trial Balance	S1
> Deleted tests	T1
> Appendix
> Client Work Programme	Appendix 1
> Client Fraud Questionnaire	Appendix 2
> Confirmation Schedule	Appendix 3
> Staff Independence Confirmation	Appendix 4
> Using the Work of an Auditors Expert	Appendix 5



Within this list, the Audit Planning Memorandum questionnaire extends to 15 full pages!

Audits of public interest companies (including owners management companies) are regarded as riskier and more serious than audits of private companies, because the beneficial owners of, and stakeholders in, public interest companies generally aren't involved in the day-to-day running of such companies and therefore have proportionately more to lose from others' wrongdoing or shortcuts.


----------



## gebbel

I have seen Directors fees taken from the fund in the last 3 years. €450 per annum. Is this allowed?

Thanks


----------



## T McGibney

gebbel said:


> I have seen Directors fees taken from the fund in the last 3 years. €450 per annum. Is this allowed?



Are such fees permitted by the the company's memorandum & articles of association? If so, yes.


----------



## gebbel

Thanks T I will have to check that out.


----------



## elcato

> I have seen Directors fees taken from the fund in the last 3 years. €450 per annum. Is this allowed?


Was it listed as a cost in the annual report also.


----------



## gebbel

elcato said:


> Was it listed as a cost in the annual report also.



Just checked, yes it was. Ridiculous.


----------



## Joe_90

gebbel said:


> I'm an owner occupier of an apartment in a small development of 16 units, made up of 8 units per block. *I have never bothered attending an AGM *before but will go next week to voice my concerns and dissatisfaction with certain issues. The main ones being:



So you would not spare an hour over a number of years to got to the AGM, where 2 directors showed up with a couple of property owners to discuss the issues in your absence.

You are giving out about the director being paid a minimal fee for the year when no one else would take the job.

The alternative would have been the director resigned and notifies the CRO. The company then does not have the required minimum of 2 directors and the CRO starts the process of striking off the company.


----------



## RainyDay

gebbel said:


> 4. The previous Director paid himself €450 in fees. The chequebook also shows him spending on credit for his phone. There may be impropriety here.


Was he a sole signatory? Surely this is unusual, or very bad practice at least.


----------



## gebbel

Joe_90 said:


> So you would not spare an hour over a number of years to got to the AGM, where 2 directors showed up with a couple of property owners to discuss the issues in your absence.
> 
> You are giving out about the director being paid a minimal fee for the year when no one else would take the job.
> 
> The alternative would have been the director resigned and notifies the CRO. The company then does not have the required minimum of 2 directors and the CRO starts the process of striking off the company.




Yes I agree with some of your comments, especially about attending AGMs. 

The directors fee seems ridiculous to me. Why do they deserve it? I won't be claiming it. That money will be much better off used for the good of the estate.


----------



## Bree Narran

We shopped around for auditor and 1,100 was best price.
I too understand that it soon will not be mandatory got omc yo be audited
Slthough personally think it preferable to have 

Our memos prob like most sllow for payment to directord
I too think billing the true cost is crucial as you may not slwsys be there.

I reckon difficult task with so few members.


----------



## Butter

I think the true costs of admin should be borne by the company. Being a director may cost you free time but shouldn't cost you money too. 
We have had people at our AGM asking why we (the directors) don't print stuff at home ourselves & deliver it through letter boxes ourselves. Being an unpaid director who gives up time & effort (and does actually often print stuff at my own expense) is hard enough - I don't see why people who won't volunteer themselves to do anything, think I should be an unpaid postman for a 150 houses too!

Is the director who resigned still a member & still an owner there? 

Regardless of people disbelieving the admin costs - that's not an excuse to refuse to pay. I assume the budgets were being approved at the AGMs? Therefore the fee stands and those in arrears will have to pay. It shows how important it is to be on the ball if you're a member of a management company. 

It may be worth offering payment plans over 12 months to allow people to catch up with arrears.


----------



## lantus

Butter said:


> I think the true costs of admin should be borne by the company. Being a director may cost you free time but shouldn't cost you money too.
> We have had people at our AGM asking why we (the directors) don't print stuff at home ourselves & deliver it through letter boxes ourselves. Being an unpaid director who gives up time & effort (and does actually often print stuff at my own expense) is hard enough - I don't see why people who won't volunteer themselves to do anything, think I should be an unpaid postman for a 150 houses too!
> 
> Is the director who resigned still a member & still an owner there?
> 
> Regardless of people disbelieving the admin costs - that's not an excuse to refuse to pay. I assume the budgets were being approved at the AGMs? Therefore the fee stands and those in arrears will have to pay. It shows how important it is to be on the ball if you're a member of a management company.
> 
> It may be worth offering payment plans over 12 months to allow people to catch up with arrears.



 As with all things people have no real idea or inclination to stop and think about how much things cost. We have members who believe that issuing 10 page+ documents to 200+ members a third of which are located around the country/world should cost 'nothing' or be paid for by the directors or that there is no real need to issue AGM documentation (a quick one liner on Facebook is apparently all I need to do or a half page leaflet through the door!) This is just ignorance and unfortunately these people tend to have very vocal and angry voices which gain a disproportionate audience complaining that all spending is unaccountable and reckless (despite never going to any AGMs)

 A few members (even those in apartments) have suggested that we just abandon the company and use a voluntary payment system. Its total lunacy but they do enough damage to make you wonder if its all worthwhile. I fear for the future of our estate.


----------



## Butter

lantus said:


> As with all things people have no real idea or inclination to stop and think about how much things cost. We have members who believe that issuing 10 page+ documents to 200+ members a third of which are located around the country/world should cost 'nothing' or be paid for by the directors or that there is no real need to issue AGM documentation (a quick one liner on Facebook is apparently all I need to do or a half page leaflet through the door!) This is just ignorance and unfortunately these people tend to have very vocal and angry voices which gain a disproportionate audience complaining that all spending is unaccountable and reckless (despite never going to any AGMs)
> 
> A few members (even those in apartments) have suggested that we just abandon the company and use a voluntary payment system. Its total lunacy but they do enough damage to make you wonder if its all worthwhile. I fear for the future of our estate.



I couldn't agree with you more lantus. 

We have had vocal owners telling us it is a disgrace that we sent out copies of the audited accounts to each member, incurring printing costs & postage costs. We have had people tell us that we should buy a lawnmower & organise a rota to cut 10 acres of grass. By we I mean the unpaid directors who do everything for free & in their own time. The same few poor unfortunates volunteer for everything in the estate & the same few complaining people are very vocal in their complaints. The same people each year refuse to pay a small service charge of around €100 a year, but have cleaners, go on holidays abroad & eat out at local restaurants. We have also had the "we should disband the management company & have voluntary clean-up days instead" suggestions. 

I have been a director for almost four years now & am standing down at the next AGM as I cannot do it any longer. The experience has honestly made me very cynical about people - to the extent that I actually want to move house. And I too wonder what will happen to my estate in the future but I feel I have done more than my fair share at this point. 

gebbel - I wouldn't like to put you off taking on the role of director. It's not all entirely negative & it's good to be able to have an input into what happens. But it is a thankless task & you become the person responsible for everything in the development - the go-to person when people want things done but also the person who is responsible for collecting money who is generally seen as the devil-incarnate!


----------



## lantus

I'd second re Butters point about it being a good experience. It has been a fantastic learning experience overall and I have developed a vast range of skills from it. I am glad I did it. Logistics, strategy, CRO, law, accounting (including some very snazzy excel and word skills if I say so myself!) developing and setting up a web site, appointing contractors and organising and running AGMs with various public speaking roles plus the other hundred things directors do. Its been a ride!

 Separating business from the emotions of individuals can be hard but is another skill to be learned.


----------



## shesells

It's a good experience to be a director but also it's the best way of protecting your investment, I certainly wouldn't trust many of my neighbours to do that which is why I've been a director from the day of our first AGM when the developers resigned as directors.


----------



## Butter

lantus said:


> I'd second re Butters point about it being a good experience. It has been a fantastic learning experience overall and I have developed a vast range of skills from it. I am glad I did it. Logistics, strategy, CRO, law, accounting (including some very snazzy excel and word skills if I say so myself!) developing and setting up a web site, appointing contractors and organising and running AGMs with various public speaking roles plus the other hundred things directors do. Its been a ride!
> 
> Separating business from the emotions of individuals can be hard but is another skill to be learned.



That's all true. I've learned an awful lot over my four years & have acquired skills outside my job. The one thing I haven't done well is to separate myself from the emotional side of dealing with neighbours & that's an essential skill.


----------



## lantus

shesells said:


> It's a good experience to be a director but also it's the best way of protecting your investment, I certainly wouldn't trust many of my neighbours to do that which is why I've been a director from the day of our first AGM when the developers resigned as directors.


 
 I would feel the same way re trust but that's a huge problem regarding legacy and the continuation of the company. How can we address this?

 Re Butters comments the difficulty is not the fact that people don't pay or moan or whatever it is our 'expectation' that they will agree and pay their service fee. Expecting people to pay based solely on my knowledge and understanding causes the most internal conflict if they don't. Once you recognise that then you can begin to separate yourself. The only person who is hurt is you (us) through the constant frustration of expecting others to agree with us without question.

 As Bill Hicks said...'Its only a ride..'


----------

