# Is my child maintenance fair?



## Inserteneo (21 Aug 2015)

I am 29 and I have 2 children from an old relationship that did not work out, the mother of the 2 children is now looking for more maintenance and is threatening to go to court if I do not pay more. However I feel I am paying a fair amount. I would like you to look at the following finances and give me your opinion on how much you think I should pay, or how much you think a judge would award.

Currently I pay €130 per week and €100 per child at Christmas and I pay half of the going back to school costs. I also pay for half of any medical/dental costs and contribute towards activities such as football, summer camps etc. The kids aged 7 & 5 stay with me 1-2 nights a week and I take them for extra time when I am off work. She does not work, if she did I can provide childcare Thursday to Monday via myself and my Mother.

I am temporarily living back at home with my Mother and Father until I have saved for a deposit to purchase a house with my partner within the next 14 months. I am also due a 10% salary increment at the end of this year.

Per Week Income & Expenditure after tax.

My Income:
€560 Wages
Car mileage that covers car usage for work

My Expenses:
€45 Car Loan
€10 Life Insurance
€10 Car Tax
€15 Car Insurance
€10 Car Upkeep
€25 Car Diesel
€5 Mobile Phone
€20 Work Breakfast & Lunches
€50 Rent To Parents
€125 Mortgage Savings
€130 Maintenance
€30 (Kids Birthdays, Xmas, school, doctors/dental, sports, etc)

Total = €475
Total Income - Expenses = €85


Her Income
€247.60 One Parent Family Payment
€60 Childrens Allowance
€10 Fuel Allowance
€130 Maintenance
€95 Rent Allowance
Total = €542.60

Her Expenses:
€185 Rent
€15 Heating
€20 Electricity
€20 UPC
€100 Groceries
€10 Car Tax
€15 Car Insurance
€10 Car Upkeep
€50 Car Diesel
€5 Mobile Phone
€30 (Kids birthdays, Xmas, school, doctors/dental, sports, etc)
€25 Kids Clothes

Total = €485
Total Income - Expenses = €57.60

I know what most of her expenses are and for the ones that I am unsure about or that are variable I put them at a higher rate by searching for average costs online.


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## noproblem (21 Aug 2015)

It's always difficult to solve problems like this. Rearing 2 children is hard, very hard, as is trying to have a life. Seems you have got a new relationship and life, but your wife has the responsibility of being at home with the children, this is not easy and we're not told if she has a life outside of the home. I see you have €255 set aside for maintenance and mortgage savings, she doesn't have that privelage and it adds up to a substantial amount every year. She uses €50 in diesel every week, that's a lot of mileage and you're almost fuel free in fairness.  Both your car insurance premiums seem very high. All in all I think you could give the mother of your children more than you are, maybe in the region of €100, not forgetting you're going to get a 10% increase of your own.


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## Inserteneo (21 Aug 2015)

noproblem said:


> It's always difficult to solve problems like this. Rearing 2 children is hard, very hard, as is trying to have a life. Seems you have got a new relationship and life, but your wife has the responsibility of being at home with the children, this is not easy and we're not told if she has a life outside of the home. I see you have €255 set aside for maintenance and mortgage savings, she doesn't have that privelage and it adds up to a substantial amount every year. She uses €50 in diesel every week, that's a lot of mileage and you're almost fuel free in fairness.  Both your car insurance premiums seem very high. All in all I think you could give the mother of your children more than you are, maybe in the region of €100, not forgetting you're going to get a 10% increase of your own.



I think you should reread my post, also we were never married.

She is not working and has no intention to work, childcare has been offered to her for 5 days of the week free of charge and arrangements can easily be made for Tuesday and Wednesday if she had to work for these days. I have a duty of care to support my children but I do not have a duty of care to support her, she has made the choice not to work. 

I am currently living at home with my parents and it is only a temporary solution and I cannot stay after the first Christmas after turning 30. This is has been my parents rule, not just for me but for my older siblings who also moved out at or before the first Christmas after turning 30.

If I was to give her an extra €100 euro a week I would not be able to afford to save for a mortgage, never mind having to pay rent or pay for a mortgage when the time comes, paying the extra would also mean that somebody who does not have a job would have more disposable income than somebody who does, but still have a house and everything provided for, I cannot see how that would be fair?

The 10% increment does not equate to a 10% bump in take home pay. I will only take home an extra €134 a month after tax has been paid, which I will need to pay for a mortgage and/or rent when the time comes.


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## Bronte (21 Aug 2015)

It doesn't matter if you were married or not.  We do not have her viewpoint on this.  It's very difficult when two people split up and income is needed to support two houses.

You have offered childcare and you see her refusal of this as a decision not to work.  Perhaps she does not wish the children to be minded by you and your relations.  I'm not saying it's the case but things are rarely as black and white as one person in a failed relationship states.  It could simple be that she has chosen to stay at home.  It's very difficult to have a working life around young children in Ireland as the school ending times are so early.

You're right you don't have to support her.  Irish taxpayers for the most part are actually paying her and paying something also towards the upkeep of both of your children.

What you need to find out is would a court order higher maintenance.  You should ask a good family solicitor who with the figures you've supplied should be able to tell you very quickly what is the likelyhood of this.  There are no winners but try and make it not a lose lose situation for your children. 

The court threat might be idle.  It's not like your ex is living in opulance based on the figures you've provided but neither are you.


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## Inserteneo (21 Aug 2015)

Another problem in our society are people who have kids in order to secure a financial future for themselves. If she was to work the kids could easily be supported by hers and my earnings.

In relation to the childcare, I have the kids at the weekends anyway so she could if she wanted get a part time job for these hours without giving any additional time. It has also never been expressed by her that the issue with childcare is that she does not want me or any of my family member providing it. It also wouldn't be unusual for her to ring me or my mother every week or so to collect the kids and look after them after school until after dinner time and sometimes overnight if she has plans, this of course would be additional time to the 1-2 nights I have them each weekend.

I'm trying to make things as pleasant as possible for the kids, I think my ex thinks I am on a very large income, I have on multiple occasions tried to explain my finances to her but she doesn't want to listen.

If she was to obtain a part time job on lets say €9.50 an hour for 20 hours a week, which would be weekends and 1 week night she would be much better off than if she did not work, or compared to if she worked full time. I will more than likely have to seek solicitors advice as I think we will end up in court soon.

Not Working:
Her Income
€247.60 One Parent Family Payment
€60 Childrens Allowance
€10 Fuel Allowance
€130 Maintenance
€95 Rent Allowance
Total = €542.60
Total Income - Expenses = €57.60

Working 20 hours at €9.50 an hour
Her Income
€190 Wages
€155.10 One Parent Family Payment
€60 Childrens Allowance
€10 Fuel Allowance
€130 Maintenance
€95 Rent Allowance
Total = €640.10
Total Income - Expenses = €155.10

Working 39 hours at €9.50
Her Income
€335.56 Wages
€81.86 FIS
€60 Childrens Allowance
€130 Maintenance
Total = €607.42
Total Income - Expenses = €122.42


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## Bronte (21 Aug 2015)

I can well see why she wouldn't want to work to get 607 - 542 = 65 Euro.  Then there's now not just a job but managing a house and kids too.  The exta costs of petrol to go to work, clothes for work, parking, childminding toing and frowing.

She'd also presumably lose the medical card.

These are the considerations she is mulling over.


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## Inserteneo (21 Aug 2015)

She doesn't need to include childcare as it can be provided free of charge. I just checked the medical card and as long as she doesn't earn over €260 a week she can keep her medical card if she has one.

I have included her diesel at €50 which is a very high rate, unless she was working miles away. The only other possible expenses are work clothes and parking, but we are not in the city so I cannot see there being parking charges where we we live for working.

If she was to go by the second rate:
Working 20 hours at €9.50 an hour
Her Income
€190 Wages
€155.10 One Parent Family Payment
€60 Childrens Allowance
€10 Fuel Allowance
€130 Maintenance
€95 Rent Allowance
Total = €640.10
Total Income - Expenses = €155.10

She would then be up on money each week regardless, also she would then be providing more of things herself instead of the social providing it all and over a few years she could progress to higher pay. If she does not work at all she will never be in a good financial situation, no matter what age the kids are. It has been 10 years since she has last worked.


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## epicaricacy (21 Aug 2015)

You haven't mentioned how much extra your ex-partner is looking for? If it's approx. 50 Euros per week, I'd suggest handing it over.

I'd suggest that you come to an informal agreement with your partner. A couple I know have spent thousands on solicitor's fees over similar issues that could easily have been resolved between the 2 of them. A collaborative approach wins over an adversarial approach every time. Besides, I wouldn't be too confident of a judge listening to your argument re. you saving for a mortgage etc. when your kids are living in the rental sector. The 125 you're saving for a mortgage per week is not  an expense. If you and your current partner had to rent an apartment, how much would it cost you per week? Unless you're living in Dublin I doubt it would cost you and oyur partner  175 each per week (125 mortage saving + 50 rent to your parents). How much is your car loan for and when is it finishing? Where are the expenses for your ex's clothes etc? Are they included in the disposable income figure of 57 Euros per week?

What day off his your ex supposed to have if she's expected to work Thursday through til Monday in addition to looking after the children for the rest of the week? It seems like your ex is expected to completely change her life around and take on the added stress of working on top of being the primary carer for your children so that you can save for your mortgage with another woman. I'm not too sure how that would sound in court.

To put things in context - another friend (his net wage would be less than yours) is currently handing over 450 per month maintenance for one child. Both parents are currently working in the same organisation on the same wage and he has the child 3 nights per week. They also split the childcare costs of 150 per week.

As I've written - I'd suggest you hand over an agreed extra amount of at least 200 - 400 per month and watch the attitude re. her apparent dislike of work etc. - if your toxic attitude spills out in court you could walk into paying twice what you're paying at the moment and you'd only have yourself to blame.


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## mathepac (21 Aug 2015)

In order to balance the books and to be fair, you need to include your income from your mileage allowance, otherwise discount your motoring expenses heavily.


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## noproblem (21 Aug 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> I think you should reread my post, also we were never married.
> 
> She is not working and has no intention to work, childcare has been offered to her for 5 days of the week free of charge and arrangements can easily be made for Tuesday and Wednesday if she had to work for these days. I have a duty of care to support my children but I do not have a duty of care to support her, she has made the choice not to work.
> 
> ...


 

As someone else mentioned, it doesn't matter if you were married or not. You asked for an opinion and I gave you mine. Silly me from what I'm reading since.


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## Branz (21 Aug 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> I have a duty of care to support my children but I do not have a duty of care to support her, she has made the choice not to work.



I don't know where this warped thinking came from with your duty of care stuff.
Go to court with that statement and you will be blown away by the judge.

OP you are not even on the hind tit here in any legal negotiations: she holds the entire deck.

You and your new partner would be better renting until the kids are 18 because she will keep coming back to the well, a well which will be more fruitful if you get married.


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## Bronte (22 Aug 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> Another problem in our society are people who have kids in order to secure a financial future for themselves. If she was to work the kids could easily be supported by hers and my earnings.
> 42



It's amazing that you seem to think you had no part in this.  It's also rather sad that you are buying yourself a house but your children have to live in rented accommodation.  

Would she not lose the rent allowance if she works.


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## Bronte (22 Aug 2015)

ircoha said:


> she holds the entire deck.
> 
> You and your new partner would be better renting until the kids are 18 because she will keep coming back to the well, a well which will be more fruitful if you get married.



He also might be smart not to get married. This has all the hallmarks of going horribly wrong.


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## Thirsty (22 Aug 2015)

Solution is quite simple in my view; 

offer to take custody of the children, be their primary carer, find rental accommodation and a landlord who will take Rent Allowance and be prepared to move every few years.  Live on Social Welfare for the next decade and deal with an asshole of an ex-partner....


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## Inserteneo (24 Aug 2015)

After another weekend of not being allowed to see my children I have decided that it is time to go to court. We will be going to court for maintenance and split custody (Friday after school to Monday, with grandmother dropping to school on Monday morning). I have spoken to my employer and if in the future my ex manages to find Monday-Friday work I am allowed to change my shift patterns for overnight weekends so I can take the kids during the week.

I have not been completely forthcoming with the situation as there are other factors that I did not include, my ex has a drug problem, she spends anywhere from €50 to €150 per week on weed (Marijuana). We had a sit down yesterday and discussed maintenance and access/custody. She wants me to pay her €250 maintenance per week including still splitting school/christmas/birthdays/medical/dental and that until I pay this amount I am not allowed to see my children. With the extras it works out at around 50% of my salary including the 10% increment, this is just not possible!

In regards to rent I live in South Dublin and she lives in North County Dublin close to Meath where rents are much cheaper. The solicitor reiterated that I do not have to support my ex as we were not a cohabiting couple after 1st of January 2011. That I just have to maintain the kids, but because she is not working I will be made contribute a larger portion to their share of reasonable expenses. The solicitor has suggested €150 per week with conditions. In relation to my current partner even if we were to get married it would not make any difference to the maintenance I would have to pay as my partner has no legal responsibility for my children and the maintenance can only be assessed on my personal income and reasonable expenditure, although expenses will be halved in terms of rent/bills etc for the house.

It will be recommended that she attend a rehabilitation clinic appointed by the court during the times that I have the kids and that maintenance paid is directly to rent and other bills. The main reason for this is she has not paid rent in almost 3 months and has not paid for tax/insurance but still drives the car, I can only imagine where the money went.

Although some comments have not been the nicest and seem to be a direct stab at me I understand that none of you are in the current situation I am in and it can be very hard for me to convey to you the extent of the problem and it can easily come across that I am being stubborn.


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## noproblem (24 Aug 2015)

I don't want to begin thinking of where her €150 per week comes from for the weed. One thing I can tell you,  by going to court won't lighten your load and that's for sure.  I'm taking into a/c  that it's your version of events we have and that's all. The judge will have everything and by everything it will be just that. Good luck.


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## epicaricacy (24 Aug 2015)

That's the cheapest 'drug problem' - 50 Euros per week - I've ever heard of. The idea that someone needs drug rehabilitation for smoking an 8th of an ounce of weed per week is absolutely ludicrous and will be laughed out of court. Are you aware of the current strain on services in the greater Dublin area, where 'actual drug addicts' (i.e. people with out of control addiction disorders) are on interminable waiting lists for treatment? Besides, what rehab centre offers a Thursday to Monday service? If your ex has such a problem with drugs, how come it took her asking you for extra maintenance (over 4 years since you left her) that prompted you to seek the assistance of the courts?

The simple reality is that you are not giving her enough money and she can't survive on the money that you are contributing towards maintenance - hence driving without tax / insurance etc.  After all, a night out with her friends would cost more than the funds she's apparently spending on what you naively / conveniently term her 'drug problem'.

This 'my ex has a drug problem' (and your solictor's ideas re. 'conditions') approach could end up backfiring very badly on you. As I said the last day - collaborative versus adversarial is the way to proceed if you want to avoid incurring extra costs (including possible defamation of character re. your spurious and I presume unsubstantiated claims re. her being a drug addict).

The only person set to gain monetarily (besides your ex getting the princely sum of 1.50 per day extra per child under the new conditional arrangement) is the solicitor. Any judge worth his salt will see straight through your 'story' of faux concern for your children. The judge could easily see that vindictiveness, revenge and malice are driving your behaviour. Don't say you haven't been warned!!


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## Thirsty (24 Aug 2015)

> I understand that none of you are in the current situation


Maybe not, but in my case I raised two children on my own and had to deal with these sorts of issues every day.  You have a choice, you can listen to the very sensible advice you've been given here... or you can learn it yourself the hard way.


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## Bronte (25 Aug 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> After another weekend of not being allowed to see my children I have decided that it is time to go to court.
> 
> She wants me to pay her €250 maintenance per week including still splitting school/christmas/birthdays/medical/dental and that until I pay this amount I am not allowed to see my children.
> 
> ...



You need to calm down before taking the drastic step of going to court.  It's totally wrong of her to deny you access no matter what, and it's most certainly shouldn't be conditional on you paying her more maintenance.

Are you SURE that if you get married that a judge won't look at your new 'joint' income and circumstances, compare it to your children living in rental with a single mother and then decide you can pay more?  The law may say one thing but a judge is human !

What's with the rehabilitation clinic, for smoking some pot?  If that's all she does that's nothing.  Who has decided on this course of action?  Sounds to me like someone struggling who is using pot to get her through the week.  Like a crutch in a desparate life possibly.

You are also coming across as controlling - you want your money directed a certain way, rather than giving your ex the right to choose what she does with the money. 

Don't make things worse by going to war, not unless you're pretty sure of the outcome.  Unfortunately for you if she takes against you she will be able to beat the system, the country is full of men who know this.


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## stephnyc (25 Aug 2015)

@Inserteneo - I hope this gets resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible. No one knows the full situation, but people are trying to help.

For a 2nd opinion, before you head for a costly court date, maybe try http://www.treoir.ie/ or http://www.uspi.ie/ I have no experience of either, but I think you need impartial advice.


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## AppleSun (25 Aug 2015)

Not knowing her side of things, and going on what you said above:

The average maintenance awarded by the court (per child) is €65, up to a max of 150 per week. They very rarely award the higher figure. OP said he's paying 130 per week plus half of all medical and school costs etc. That sounds fair (based on the going rates) Go to court. Highly unlikely she'd get anything else awarded I'd say. The court also will not look kindly on her stopping you seeing the children. They are the important ones in this. You are much better off getting a court ordered maintenance amount and access to the kids. if she stops you seeing them in the future, then she will be in breech of the court order, and you can bring her back to court (no solicitor needed).

By the way, you don't need a solicitor. I have been in court and many couples go in by themselves. But the first once or twice it would be helpful, even just to go see a solicitor and get their feedback on where you stand. She'll probably apply for free legal aid.

What you will need is:

Bank statements showing all your income and then receipted outgoings. (She will be asked for the same).
Keep a list of any dates she has stopped you seeing the children.
Detail to the judge the current informal arrangement and how long it has been going on for and what arrangement you are looking for going forward. The courts do prefer you to work this out yourselves, but in this case, it sounds like that's not going to happen.
Don't bring anything up about drug usage unless you have absolute proof. if you request receipted expenses and she is indeed spending €100+pw on drugs, the judge will see that gaping hole.


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## mathepac (25 Aug 2015)

With the safety of the children in mind, go to court with the suspicions you have of

Rent arrears, risking the children not having a home
Car not taxed and insured (photograph the discs on the windscreen)
Drug taking (the judge can order a drug-screen)
Illegal denial of access to your children.
If all your suspicions / allegations are upheld, the chances are you will be awarded full-time custody of your children and all payments by you to your former partner will cease. They will then be better off, have a stable, drug-free home life and be safer.

However I suspect this may not be the outcome you and your new partner want.


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## Thirsty (25 Aug 2015)

> the chances are you will be awarded full-time custody of your children


Highly unlikely on these grounds, better chance of winning this weeks lotto.


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## Inserteneo (1 Sep 2015)

Just an update.

@AppleSun
Still no access since I last posted, court applications have been sent in by me for access, maintenance and guardianship to get it all sorted out once and for all. I received legal advice from my solicitor on what course of action to take and I also met with a single parents group and got some information and insight into both sides of the single parents argument. I'm going to take a solicitor in with me this time and in the future I'll probably just go it alone.

@mathepac
I would love to have custody of my kids. My partner is mad about them, we have discussed what would happen of I were to get custody and the mutual decision is that they would live with us. But I don't think it will be easy to get full custody as a Father in Ireland. Perhaps now that we are going down the court route that I can work my way up to split custody.

@Thirsty
In your very first comment are you calling me an asshole or the ex you are dealing with. If it was directed at me, I wouldn't need rent allowance if I had custody. I am already going down the hard way by being blackmailed by my ex into paying her more maintenance while she won't allow me see the kids. I cannot afford to pay her €250 a week, that is just madness!

@epicaricacy
50 to 150 a week on weed is not a cheap drug problem. Just because she isn't addicted to heroin doesn't make it any less of a drug problem. Perhaps services are under staffed, it still doesn't take from the fact that it is an illegal substance. Also I do not have "faux" concern for my kids! This is also not the first time that the weed/car/rent problems have been brought up.

I will post an update again when I get a court date and after court to give an idea on what has been decided.


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## AppleSun (1 Sep 2015)

@Inserteneo Her stopping you seeing the children will really *not* go in her favour when she gets to court. Is there anything your solicitor can do in the meantime? i.e. solicitors letter to her, in order to restart access to the kids. Family court is every 2 or 3 months right so might be a while before you get an appointment? Has she got a solicitor yet? As I mentioned, Document your attempts to request access to the children, and her reply, dates etc. Once you have your access order in Place, she will be unable to stop you seeing them.


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## epicaricacy (1 Sep 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> Just an update.
> 
> 
> @epicaricacy
> 50 to 150 a week on weed is not a cheap drug problem. Just because she isn't addicted to heroin doesn't make it any less of a drug problem. Perhaps services are under staffed, it still doesn't take from the fact that it is an illegal substance. Also I do not have "faux" concern for my kids! This is also not the first time that the weed/car/rent problems have been brought up.



50 Euros per week is an extremely cheap drug 'problem'.

'Just because she isn't addicted to heroin doesn't make it any less of a problem' - It's difficult to know whether you're being deliberatley obtuse to suit your agenda (which seems to involve problematizing your ex-partner's behaviour) or if you're entirely ignorant of the nature of addiction / casual drug usage. Either way, you're heading for trouble with this approach. It's important to step away from your own anger and to check the optics of your approach. In other words, is it possible re. drug accusations etc. that a judge will view you as being a disputatious, untrustworthy and adversarial character who's primary motivation seems to involve causing massive reputational damage to the mother of his children to suit his own narrow ends? 

It's interesting that you never dealt with Bronte's question re. your ex-partner losing her rent allowance if she were to secure employment. The reality is that she would and as a result she would be worse off financially.


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## Thirsty (1 Sep 2015)

> I wouldn't need rent allowance if I had custody.


 Right.. and 24 hour child care is free as well...


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## mathepac (1 Sep 2015)

epicaricacy said:


> 50 Euros per week is an extremely cheap drug 'problem'...


Not necessarily. If that amount of money is being used by a person in straitened circumstances to buy illegal drugs, or legal ones for that matter, and *as a* *consequence*, the rent remains unpaid, the car remains untaxed or uninsured or other responsibilities are neglected, then for that person and the 50 quid a week *is* a serious problem.

When dealing with addiction, the focus has to be on the *consequences* of the drugging / drinking / gambling for the individual, their family and society generally. 

Chemical Dependency 101.


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## epicaricacy (1 Sep 2015)

mathepac said:


> Not necessarily. If that amount of money is being used by a person in straitened circumstances to buy illegal drugs, or legal ones for that matter, and *as a* *consequence*, the rent remains unpaid, the car remains untaxed or uninsured or other responsibilities are neglected, then for that person and the 50 quid a week *is* a serious problem.
> 
> When dealing with addiction, the focus has to be on the *consequences* of the drugging / drinking / gambling for the individual, their family and society generally.
> 
> Chemical Dependency 101.



The whole 'addiction issue' seems like a red herring to me. Is it likely that an ex looking for increased maintenance will admit to the person she's demanding it from that she's smoking it up? I doubt it somehow. Besides, I don't believe the poster in the first place. How can he possibly know that she's smoking weed and how much she's smoking? Have dealers started issuing receipts all of a sudden?

'When dealing with addiction ...consequences ....generally' - The reality is that treatment centres - as suggested by the poster - aren't the places to deal with people who smoke a couple of joints in the evening after the children have gone to bed. Rehabilitation Centres are for people with serious addiction disorders and the waiting lists for most of these centres are interminable.   

Is it even remotely plausible that a judge would grant joint or sole custody because of an unproveable allegation of substance misuse by one party against the other. How about the idea that the judge will force the ex into a rehabilitation centre that conveniently runs a programme from Thursday to Monday to seek treatment for addiction? After all, the poster's mother's timetable has to be accommodated!!!!

What is the poster's solicitor thinking?????????????


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## Inserteneo (1 Sep 2015)

@AppleSun
I sent 2 letters, an email and a short text message requesting access but I never got a reply. My solicitor also sent a letter to her last week but again there was no reply.

@Thirsty
I wouldn't need 24 hour child care. Just after school on a Tuesday & Wednesday evening. I only work 3 and 4 days a week, and thankfully my mother can do 1-2 days a week if needed.

@mathepac  & @epicaricacy
In regards to the drugs. When we were together although the relationship in general wasn't exactly smooth sailing it was tolerable, major problems didn't start arising until the last 2 years when the weed smoking started. At first it was as epicaricacy said, in the evenings when the kids went to bed. It over time became more regular, it turned her into a very irrational and irritable person that was impossible to stay with. When we were together she would easily anywhere from €50 to €150 depending what was happening that week. I know she is still smoking it as upon dropping the kids home from access a while back I seen her in her front garden smoking, you can't miss the smell of it! I picked it up and it was a joint, I confronted her over it later on in the week when I was dropping down maintenance, her reply was "so what, it's none of your business what I do."

Perhaps I was naive to think that there would be a possibility of attending rehab, I have spoken to the solicitor about the drugs and she said it will be hard to prove unless she voluntarily submits to a drugs test or the judge orders one.


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## Thirsty (1 Sep 2015)

> I wouldn't need 24 hour child care.


Oh for the love of Mike.... you are *getting* 24 hour child care at present!

Like talking to a brick wall here... forget the 'drugs' issue,  you may or may not agree with it, but it's going nowhere.  You haven't a snowballs chance in hell of proving her to be an unfit parent based on what you are saying here, so forget that line, you'll get nowhere.

Your big gripe (like so many estranged parents) is that you perceive some of your maintenance is going towards supporting your children's primary carer, their mom.

So ask yourself this question, if she wasn't caring for them (24 hours a day remember), and thereby freeing you up to work, who would?

Oh I would, he says... but then tells us you'd continue your job, so now you've to pay for childcare, and you don't have your evenings free anymore, and only every second weekend free.  You'll need to move out and find a home to rent, forget the saving E150 a week towards a deposit. You'll need to allow for time off when the children get sick (as they do regularly) and then there's the dentist appointments, doctors appointments, meetings with teachers.  Taking them to and from various after-school activities, play dates with their friends, sleepovers, birthday parties.

So here's the bottom line... you are getting your children reared *cheap*, by someone who loves them, at precious little inconvenience to you.  

If your family was still together, would you honestly begrudge a single penny to make them happy?


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## Inserteneo (2 Sep 2015)

@Thirsty 
They are my kids, I have absolutely no problem having them take up my evenings and weekends, before the access was stopped I would have them 2-3 days and nights a week anyway. As I said before I work shift 3 and 4 days rotating each week so I would have no problem with appointments, I have never missed a parent teacher meeting and I am the one who usually brings them to activities.

Also like I said I would only need after school care on a Tuesday & Wednesday, which would only be 6 hours a week that need to be covered that would have to be paid for.

To me it seems like you think I don't want to have my kids, I would love to be allowed to have my kids fulltime, and yes of course I would continue working to provide for them. Isn't that what a parent is supposed to do along with giving them a loving and caring home to live in?

I am more than happy to pay my fair share to raise my kids, and I feel that €150 per week which is €650 a month is more than enough. Also don't forget that I am splitting the school/medical/dental/chritmas expenses also.


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## Thirsty (2 Sep 2015)

> To me it seems like you think I don't want to have my kids


Well in your very first post you refer to "the mother of the 2 children"... in an effort to distance yourself.



> I would love to be allowed to have my kids fulltime


Most unlikely to happen; let it go.



> €150 per week


that's €75 per child.





> ..is more than enough..


It isn't, but hey you're not listening to anything else that's being said. 



> I am splitting the school/medical/dental/chritmas expenses also


Why not tot up the average of these over the year and add it to the normal maintenance, it would be easier to manage for both of you.

[broken link removed]


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## epicaricacy (2 Sep 2015)

Inserteneo said:


> @Thirsty
> 
> Also like I said I would only need after school care on a Tuesday & Wednesday, which would only be 6 hours a week that need to be covered that would have to be paid for.
> 
> What about during Summer (8 weeks and 12 weeks in secondary school), Christmas (3 weeks), Easter Holidays (2 weeks), Mid-Term Breaks (2 weeks)? How about when they are sick? Are you expecting your mother to provide all of this free of charge indefinitely into the future?


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## Thirsty (2 Sep 2015)

from eumom.ie:



> In Dublin, Cork and most parts of Galway and Limerick urban areas, a childminders rates are the following: (guideline only)
> 
> Full time €5-€6.50 per hour, _*daily rate €50 *(my emphasis)_ for one child Part time / after school (incl. school collections) €5-€6.50 ph., daily rate €25 For a second child (sibling), most childminders offer a discount bringing the hourly rate to €8 per hour
> 
> ...


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## Inserteneo (1 Oct 2015)

So we were in court the other day.

We were in for Access & Maintenance. Access was sorted on the day and I got very good access. Maintenance was adjourned as there is an issue with my work at the moment. However the judge said I have been very fair with my payments but would look into it in more detail in two weeks time when we are back in court and the work issue has been sorted.

I brought up the issue in regards to the weed and the judge disregarded it because there was not enough evidence. Had a chat with her after the court and she said that she hasn't been smoking it for the last few months, that she had quit, I hope she has and I hope it's the end of it.


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## annanya (18 Oct 2015)

Hi Inserteno, i'm v interested to hear how the judge was towards you? Did he award an increase in maintenance?


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