# Zero Sick Pay - Is this legal?



## apple1 (2 Oct 2007)

Hi, just signed a Permanent Full Time Contract with an indigenous SME.  I've learned since however, that the company does not pay any sick pay, even for salaried staff.  If you miss a day through illness, you're docked a day's pay or have to take it from your holiday entitlement.  Is this legal?  I thought it may have been mandatory for a company to make some contribution?  Appreciate any insight or advice.


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## Purple (2 Oct 2007)

It is perfectly legal, and usual in much of the economy.
If you are out for more than three days with a sick cert you can apply for welfare payments. Your employer contributes to this through their PRSI contributions.

The traditional position was that those who were paid by the hour (and received over-time payments) were not paid sick pay but those on a salary did get sick pay (as they didn’t get paid for over-time). As a general rule the more exposed the employer is to international competition the less likely it is that this system is in place.


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## purpeller (2 Oct 2007)

Afaik, there is no legal entitlement to sick pay.  It is entirely at the employer's discretion.  You can always claim social welfare if you are sick though.


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## aircobra19 (2 Oct 2007)

A lot of people don't realise that maternity pay or sick pay are at the employer's discretion.


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## Purple (2 Oct 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> A lot of people don't realise that maternity pay or sick pay are at the employer's discretion.


 Maternity top-up pay is at the employers discretion, statutory maternity benefit is not. It is calculated by dividing a woman's gross income in the relevant tax year by the number of weeks they actually worked in that year.
The rate of Maternity Benefit is 80% of this amount, subject to a minimum payment of €182.60 and a maximum payment of €265.60 per week.
Many employers do top this up to the level that the employee earns but this is indeed optional (check your contract).


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## Nige (2 Oct 2007)

Minimum maternity benefit is €207 and maximum is €285 - but these don't cost the employer a penny.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Oct 2007)

Nige said:


> Minimum maternity benefit is €207 and maximum is €285 - but these don't cost the employer a penny.


 
Yes and No. 

Employers pay 10.75% of the gross salary in employers' prsi on the vast majority of their employees. There is no ceiling. So an employee on €100k costs the employer a further €10,750.  This goes into the fund which pays for maternity benefits, sick pay and pensions.

Brendan


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## aircobra19 (2 Oct 2007)

That why I said maternity pay and not benefit.


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## Purple (2 Oct 2007)

Nige said:


> Minimum maternity benefit is €207 and maximum is €285 - but these don't cost the employer a penny.



My mistake on the amounts, thanks for the more up to date figures. In theory the payments are made through PRSI revenue and as such the employer pays more than the employee as they pay a greater amount of PRSI but in real terms you are correct. The cost to the employer is the disruption of having an employee out for X weeks plus the cost of a short term replacement.


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## Alli07 (3 Oct 2007)

Sorry to butt in on this, but if anyone could help, I'd appreciate it.

If an employee on 6 months probation has been sick numerous times and paid for it without question and then the employee leaves within the 6 months probation.  
Can the employer take the days they were paid for being out sick out of their holiday entitlements?

Thanks

Alli


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## shipibo (3 Oct 2007)

Is it " custom and practice" in the job to pay sick leave ??

Company can do this, but maybe liable to former employee taking them to employee tribunal court.


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## Purple (3 Oct 2007)

Alli07 said:


> Sorry to butt in on this, but if anyone could help, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> If an employee on 6 months probation has been sick numerous times and paid for it without question and then the employee leaves within the 6 months probation.
> Can the employer take the days they were paid for being out sick out of their holiday entitlements?
> ...


The short answer is no. Sick pay is sick pay and not holiday pay.


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## Lao (13 Oct 2007)

apple1 said:


> Hi, just signed a Permanent Full Time Contract with an indigenous SME.  I've learned since however, that the company does not pay any sick pay, even for salaried staff.  If you miss a day through illness, you're docked a day's pay or have to take it from your holiday entitlement.  Is this legal?  I thought it may have been mandatory for a company to make some contribution?  Appreciate any insight or advice.


Hey Apple, yes it's legal.

Basically it somewhat depends on what is said about it in the companies contract, policy and HR statement.
But, yes they can decide to do that if they want. Wheather on a largescale or individual basis.


Lao.


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## ClubMan (13 Oct 2007)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/sick_leave



> In general an employee has no right under employment law in Ireland to be paid while on sick leave. Consequently, it is at the discretion of the employer to decide his/her own policy on sick pay and sick leave, subject to the employee’s contract or terms of employment. Under [broken link removed] of the [broken link removed] and 2001 an employer must provide an employee with a written statement of terms of employment within two months of the commencement of the employment. One of the terms referred to in this Act on which the employer must provide information is the terms or conditions relating to incapacity for work due to sickness or injury.


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