# Notice to Clear Mortgage Balance of €44k, Vulture Fund



## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

Hi all, 

I'm new to AAM so please bare with me. 

I won't mention the Fund applicable but they purchased my mortgage about 2 years ago. I'll be honest and had difficulties over the past 4 years but always maintained interest only payments etc.

Mortgage taken out in 2001, small top up 2003.

Total Balance outstanding is €44k, of which there is warehoused arrears included in takeover, this was a 5 year agreement, just expired and may explain the Vulture funds move. 

So this morning out of the Blue letter's arrived with a demand for full balance to be cleared within 7 days, after that legal proceedings to follow. This was genuinely not expected infact a new short term rolling arrangement was planned start of August.

Astonished and quite taken aback, I contacted Abhaile (Mabs), unbelievably helpful and have commenced a process. It was let slip a surge in such activity has commenced. Obviously this won't stop whatever action the Vulture fund wish to take. I've read about options, PIA being a possibility but gosh the fee's are high anything up to 7k depending on complexity, I don't begrudge professional fees for expert advice, just wasn't expecting it.

Due to a long term illness my income will be affected so I need to be realistic. My Home (Small cottage) is quite rural, I've no dependents, single with an approx value of €160k.

So here's the question, sorry for the amount of details.

I have potential access to near enough the €44k to clear the balance but only if repossession likely.

Seperately Going down the PIA route will be expensive albeit some potential debt forgiveness (I understand nothing certain) and years of obligations etc. I want to keep my home, at 54 Never ever intended selling, mine is certainly not a trophy property but idealic if that's the right word. My other fear is there's very little incentive for a Vulture fund to agree to a PIA in my current situation. 

What are peoples thoughts on trying to reach a settlement, no courts, additional costs etc. Is it unlikely given my equity is quite high and actual balance relatively low that a Vulture fund would accept a small discounted offer, is it even worth trying?

I need to reiterate, the offer to clear comes from a dear friend with no strings attached but I will fully intend assigning property in some way to that friend, my case is genuine, illness and reduced income has been my honest challenge and maybe into the future.

Thanks for any advice and please no prejudging, I accept my responsibilities, just looking for an amicable cost effective solution.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2021)

Hi JD

First of all, no need to panic. 

I presume it was a 20 year mortgage and the term is up. 

Even if the Fund is minded to take legal action against you, it would take them years to get anywhere.

What is your net income? 
How much can you afford to pay? 
Interest only on €44k is very little. 

For example, €44,000 @ 4% interest over 10 years wold be repayments of €450 per month. Can you afford that? 

I would recommend you start paying as much as you can afford.  If you can pay more than €450, then you should do so. 

Abhaile should put a proposal on this basis to the fund. They would be mad not to accept it. 

If they ever take legal action and the judge sees that you will have the mortgage cleared in time, they will not grant an order for possession.

Brendan


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## Jim Stafford (1 Jul 2021)

JD2021 said:


> My other fear is there's very little incentive for a Vulture fund to agree to a PIA in my current situation.


Under the recently updated legislation the fund would be obliged to accept the terms of a PIA *provided *it paid off the mortgage in full.

Given the size of the debt I would suggest that you let MABS try and negotiate a settlement.

Jim Stafford


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## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi JD
> 
> First of all, no need to panic.
> 
> ...


Brendan, thanks so much for the reply.

Honestly, I got a shock yesterday with the demand and have started the process re abhaile.

In essence my challenge is affordability


Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi JD
> 
> First of all, no need to panic.
> 
> ...


Brendan, thanks so much , My first ever post 

I got a genuine fright yesterday morning. Essentially whilst the debt in relative terms not very high, I am factoring in potential reduced income for the foreseeable future due to an illness. Honestly I think I would struggle @ €450 a month. 

The private offer to assist is obviously not being disclosed at this stage , I assume when I do meet with Mabs/Abhaile etc I may have to mention it. What I was thinking without disclosing too much info was to put a number of scenario's to the Vulture Fund and see how they react. I am anxious not only to try a reach a solution but also lesson if at all possible the pain. From a health perspective I also believe a quick solution is better rather than dragging this on for years. I certainly appreciate the work PIP do but if I could get a quick cost effective solution it would be ideal.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2021)

JD2021 said:


> Honestly I think I would struggle @ €450 a month.



What can you afford? 

The interest on €44k @4% is about €150 a month. 

If you pay more than this you are reducing the balance and eventually the mortgage will be paid off.

If you just pay €150 a month, you will always owe the money.

So pay more than €150 and it would be stupid of the lender to try to repossess.

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (1 Jul 2021)

OP seems to have had some hard personal circumstances. Illness when self-employed can be very difficult financially in Ireland.

I don't know how the fund will look at it but I would think it should be possible to repay in full. Repaying €44k at 4% over 15 years is only €300 a month.

To me this is manageable on illness benefit or state pension in due course. Everyone has to pay something for shelter.


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## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

Jim Stafford said:


> Under the recently updated legislation the fund would be obliged to accept the terms of a PIA *provided *it paid off the mortgage in full.
> 
> Given the size of the debt I would suggest that you let MABS try and negotiate a settlement.
> 
> Jim Stafford


Morning Jim and thanks so much.

I am at a very early stage re the Mabs process and will certainly be guided as much as possible by them and indeed opinions such as yours. I suppose the crux of my dilemma is being aware privately I have an option (Very grateful and unexpected) and how to show my hand as such, obviously I want to be completely transparent. What I need to avoid is adding substantial legal costs, expenses to a process of trying to resolve this once and for all. I certainly appreciate your input


Brendan Burgess said:


> What can you afford?
> 
> The interest on €44k @4% is about €150 a month.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brendan, 

I've unfortunately discovered an additional complication, only discovered this morning on getting some info together. Requesting a credit report, that will take time but also details on my property folio, showing a judgement mortgage in 2009, honestly I believed this was part of the sale of my mortgage to Vulture fund, but I may not be, it relates to a dispute with original mortgage provider re a personal loan, the amount is not clear but  certainly below €8k.i apologise for not disclosing this, I genuinely just assumed it was absorbed in whatever arrangement was made with Vulture Fund, today is the first time I ever searched my property folio. I've not had a single item of correspondence on this issue since the date it was registered , it was registered on the 4th Feb 2009 but only uploaded to land registry in 2011. 

So this puts a new perspective on whatever I come up with re a settlement, perhaps this new issue is what's motivated a move by Vulture fund albeit a judgement registered just over 12 years ago. 

I'll need a bigger thinking cap on now, please understand this is new info, had I known I would have included it when posting originally.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2021)

Did they sell the personal debt to the Vulture Fund as well?  I suspect not, if the fund did not mention it to you in their letter. 

If not, the VF is only interested in getting the €44k. 

If you pay that off over 15 years, you will still have the judgement mortgage, but lenders rarely try to seek an order based on a judgement mortgage. 

so it will stay there until you die and your Executor sells the house.

Brendan


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## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> OP seems to have had some hard personal circumstances. Illness when self-employed can be very difficult financially in Ireland.
> 
> I don't know how the fund will look at it but I would think it should be possible to repay in full. Repaying €44k at 4% over 15 years is only €300 a month.
> 
> To me this is manageable on illness benefit or state pension in due course. Everyone has to pay something for shelter.


Thank you for the response, I've just updated an additional complication I've discovered this morning, a judgement mortgage by original mortgage provider, information I genuinely was not aware of. It doesn't overly change the bigger picture however.

Based on responses to date, even with the new information, I believe a settlement can be reached. If at all possible my approach will be get a bottom line figure and make an offer. I believe common sense will prevail (hopefully) in the end.

Thanks again


Brendan Burgess said:


> Did they sell the personal debt to the Vulture Fund as well?  I suspect not, if the fund did not mention it to you in their letter.
> 
> If not, the VF is only interested in getting the €44k.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brendan for not pre judging, I only discovered this seperate issue after joining AAM. 

You are correct, I feel, VF did not take over this debt. Obviously when I'm negotiating I'll disclose this Seperately, VF have never even mentioned it and as I've said, neither has original provider since it was registered back in Feb 2009.

Obviously I'm keen to get everything done and dusted and will have to investigate if this judgement is even enforceable at this stage. One final question if I may, why would details of this only be registered in 2011? Would that be normal?


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2021)

JD2021 said:


> Obviously when I'm negotiating I'll disclose this


You should tell MABS.

Why would you disclose it to the Fund?  It will only complicate things.

Focus on the money you owe to the Fund. If you can resolve that, the Judgement Mortgage will have no impact.

Brendan


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## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

Thanks again Brendan, no doubting your wiser than I and yes I'll keep this issue entirely separate, my only concern was could this separate issue suddenly raises its head with it being enforced as it were. I've an offer of assistance and want to be 100% upfront in whatever assistance I recieve, the person is not related to me but acted as Gaurdian since a very young age (another complicated story)

Thanks so sincerely, your advice has been genuinely appreciated.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2021)

Just to be absolutely clear.

You also need to tell your helper that you have this judgement.

You just don't need to tell the lender. If they ask you to fill out a Standard Financial Statement of your income  and expenditure and assets and liabilities, then you need to tell them.

Brendan


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## JD2021 (1 Jul 2021)

Absolutely Brendan, yes that's my intention, thanks again


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## JD2021 (3 Jul 2021)

Just a quick update and additional advice if possible. As I'm new to understanding Judgement mortgages, am I correct in understanding the date the judgement mortgage is registered on my properties folio is the revelent date as opposed to the date court judgement was obtained? In essence there's a two year Gap but March 2011 is when details added to folio. 

I am awaiting a refferal for consult with a PIP so trying to get as much info as possible ready. Whilst there is no obvious movement on the Judgement mortgage obviously it could potentially be enforced at any time and this worries me. If I go for a PIA there will essentially be two creditors. Vulture Fund seeking Full balance of €44k and Judgement Mortgage (I don't know its value, but guessing €10k). My house valued approx €150k, being Conservative. I won't say who judgement mortgage in favor of but its my original mortgage provider and to do with restructuring of finance that went sour. 

I'm in a possible position with asstance to clear €13k off actual mortgage (this is warehoused debt) and with asstance maintain mortgage payments for remainder of mortgage term of 5 years. I am not in a position to deal with judgement mortgage and the possibility of it being enforced will remain as long as its valid. So, I'm really stuck on a decision. 

A. Can the Judgement mortgage be included in any over all PIA arrangement? 

B. My motivation is not to seek a reduction in my liabilities but my earning potential as explained diminished for the foreseeable future, Is my equity value almost too high for creditors to accept a PIA? 

C. Do I focus on the Judgement mortgage, try and deal with that and just consider a PIA for actual Mortgage? 

D. I don't have a figure on value of Judgement mortgage, I've requested a full credit report from Central Bank, will this show up? 

Apologies for all the questions and I appreciate any advice offered.


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## Smaug~~°w°~~ (4 Jul 2021)

Do judgement mortgages not have a 12 year time limit?  Has the bank or anyone written to you, OP, about it in the last 12 years - you may have grounds to have it cancelled.  MABS could advise you on this.


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## JD2021 (4 Jul 2021)

Smaug~~°w°~~ said:


> Do judgement mortgages not have a 12 year time limit?  Has the bank or anyone written to you, OP, about it in the last 12 years - you may have grounds to have it cancelled.  MABS could advise you on this.


Hi there, they do but I was mistaken on my understanding of date of award, the judgement was awarded in March 2009, but registered as a judgement mortgage until 2011, I've had zero communication with the creditor on this (actually original home mortgage provider) since 2009 and enforcement never attempted. So I now appreciate this could potentially happen so need to accept this when speaking with Mabs, PIP. My question is, would this be considered as a part of any potential PIA? and if I had the choice (potentially) to clear all warehoused Mortgage debt (€14k) or address this judgement mortgage (approx for €11k)  my actual mortgage balance to include everything is €44k. I guess my thinking is if I wasn't approved for a PIA, the most pressing concern may be enforcement of Judgement mortgage alot easier than a repossession process which is Threatened by VF who bought my mortgage 2 years ago, as Brendan advised I should not panic, I guess its deciding whether to clear all mortgage arrears before considering potential PIA, perhaps giving me a more manageable obligation for whatever term maybe proposed. 

Thanks so much for the response


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## Smaug~~°w°~~ (4 Jul 2021)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is the 12 years start from the date the judgement is obtained not from when registered with the land registry.  It might seem unlikely that a bank would let it lapse but I'd double check those dates and apply to have it cancelled if possible.


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## JD2021 (4 Jul 2021)

Gosh I would hope your might be correct (but it might be wishful thinking on my behalf) there's two very distinct dates I have to hand, indeed on the folio I requested from Land registry,, it actually shows the date of actual initial court judgement in the details section of folio (2009) and obviously the date it was added to folio 2011 as a judgement mortgage. So I'm presuming that actual date of importance is when it was added to folio as a mortgage judgement if I'm making sense. It's a main bank also and I've not heard a word about this since 2009, date of court judgement, I'm guessing primarily because until they sold my mortgage, they were not worried albeit it is curious the VF have never raised it albeit not of concern them unless property was be sold ( which never contemplated)

Thanks again, will be interesting as to what others thoughts are on this question


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## MugsGame (4 Jul 2021)

I'd recommend against telling the VF that you have access to a lump sum. Ask for a full and final settlement figure if you want, just to see what might be possible. 

I'd say your best bet is to continue with repayments, provided they're above €150 a month. There's very little the VF can do, other than waste everyone's time with letters and fruitless court proceedings.


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## JD2021 (4 Jul 2021)

MugsGame said:


> I'd recommend against telling the VF that you have access to a lump sum. Ask for a full and final settlement figure if you want, just to see what might be possible.
> 
> I'd say your best bet is to continue with repayments, provided they're above €150 a month. There's very little the VF can do, other than waste everyone's time with letters and fruitless court proceedings.


Excellent advice and thank you, yes, I've decided to absolutely give nothing away to VF and allow the experts advise accordingly, I was advise to send a standard letter seeking one definitive info etc after telephone consult with Mabs, I'm awaiting actual face to face very soon as there's a waiting list etc, I'll hold off on any direct contact with VF, thanks again, curious about what you mean re continuing payments above  €150? if you don't mind me asking. 

Just an additional update, I'd actually agreed a 6 month payment plan at interest only with VF to commence May 1st, they confirmed this in writing and then sent the demand letters on the 28th June, I've also asked VF to explain this. Either various departments not communicating or they've just decided to put pressure on, either way I believe a possible breach of Mortgage resolution guidelines.


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## Jim Stafford (5 Jul 2021)

A. Can the Judgement mortgage be included in any over all PIA arrangement? *Yes*

B. My motivation is not to seek a reduction in my liabilities but my earning potential as explained diminished for the foreseeable future, Is my equity value almost too high for creditors to accept a PIA? *A PIA would allow you to clear all of your debts over a long time period.*

C. Do I focus on the Judgement mortgage, try and deal with that and just consider a PIA for actual Mortgage? *If you have not acknowledged the JM in writing over the 12 year period then it is statute barred. You could ask your solicitor to write to the PRA and have it cancelled.*

D. I don't have a figure on value of Judgement mortgage, I've requested a full credit report from Central Bank, will this show up? *Such credit reports do not show JMs. You may calculate the value of the JM by adding simple interest of 8% per year from date of judgment until 1January 2017 and 2%  after that date. In any event, as advised above, the JM is now statute barred. (Just ensure that you do not open up a bank account with the same bank to avoid set off.)*

Jim Stafford


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## JD2021 (5 Jul 2021)

Good morning Jim, thanks so much for all that, really helpful, particularly working out judgement mortgage value.

Just to be clear, there's a date of actual debt court Judgement February 2009 and a Date when this judgement became (I presume) a judgement mortgage as in it was registered on my Folio in March 2011. I am therefore assuming the actual date relevant is in fact 2011 meaning it is not technically statute barred. Forgive my lack of understanding on this and thanks again, your advice is sincerely appreciated.


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## PIPPOP (5 Jul 2021)

OP, just on PIP fees. As I understand, often a PIP will incorporate the fee into the PIA so you dont pay out above and beyond your reasonable living expenses. So the fee will be spread out over the length of the arrangement.

You are doing the right thing by going to a PIP and I would arm yourself with all these questions for the consultation.


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## JD2021 (5 Jul 2021)

Thanks so much, absolutely yes, I'm determined to address my problems albeit not as grave as other stories I've read up on, there really is so much help out there and it's been reassuring. I suppose if I didn't have health challenges and reduced income to consider, I'd be less worried but I'll be heading into this much better educated. Thanks again


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## PIPPOP (5 Jul 2021)

If you get a chance, you might report back and let us know how you got on. It might help others in a similar situation. From my experience, everything is manageable and you wont be expected to pay any more than you can afford, otherwise its not a sustainable solution which the legislation is all about. Best of luck!


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## Thirsty (5 Jul 2021)

@JD2021 - many of the VFs are shockingly badly organised and almost like a scammer will fire out dozens of letters in the hope one of them will catch a bite.

These letters are like pro-forma confetti; don't let them panic you.

Illness of any sort makes this paperwork etc., even harder to deal with; people in the full of their health often don't understand that. So take your time and don't be pressured.

You seem to be on the right road; I would agree with the advice to pay the interest + some capital that you can afford.

Keep your cards close to your chest re the lump sum you have been offered. I don't see that you need to make use of that at all.

Above all, don't speak to anyone in VF on the phone.  If they ring tell them to put it in writing, you will not discuss it on the phone.

You'll be fine & you will get to stay in your home.


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## JD2021 (5 Jul 2021)

PIPPOP said:


> If you get a chance, you might report back and let us know how you got on. It might help others in a similar situation. From my experience, everything is manageable and you wont be expected to pay any more than you can afford, otherwise its not a sustainable solution which the legislation is all about. Best of luck!


I absolutely will keep people updated and honestly the decency shown on Ask About money has been just so appreciated. Thank you for your best wishes, means so much


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## JD2021 (5 Jul 2021)

Thirsty said:


> @JD2021 - many of the VFs are shockingly badly organised and almost like a scammer will fire out dozens of letters in the hope one of them will catch a bite.
> 
> These letters are like pro-forma confetti; don't let them panic you.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, sincerely appreciated, I did honestly stick my head in the sand and I hope I've shown honesty here. I'm determined to save my home but as important deal with all any any issues. At 54 it's long over due I face the future with some certainties, I learned very quickly when VF bought my mortgage to document everything and avoid any telephone communication. 

Thanks again, I'll be updating as the process progresses.


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## Jim Stafford (5 Jul 2021)

Just to be clear, there's a date of actual debt court Judgement February 2009 and a Date when this judgement became (I presume) a judgement mortgage as in it was registered on my Folio in March 2011. *The 12 years runs from the date of judgement = it is now statute barred.*

Jim Stafford


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## JD2021 (5 Jul 2021)

Jim, that's really reassuring, I genuinely thought it was from the date the judgement was added to my Folio. 

Thanks so much for that clarification, this may change/Help my position.


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## JD2021 (7 Jul 2021)

Good Morning, just a quick update and one question. 

I begun Mabs process, filling out forms, personal financial statements and authorising them to contact VF etc a quick face to face meeting next week and recommendations  re meeting a PIP. Mabs seem initially positive given my overall circumstances but obviously that's to be determined. 

I've recieved a credit report via Central Bank, I gave up on ICB, website a disaster, won't permit online application, errors etc. I've not borrowed any money, taken out loans etc in well over 10 years. 

So on the Credit report I have my mortgage there (not judgement one as Jim correctly advised) there are two distinct entries, these are the historical debts I was aware of. One a credit card, revoked and no details, looks inactive it was for a very small amount. The other is a personal loan which I was in dispute over, still showing active, however absolutely no communication, payments, acknowledgement on my behalf etc in over 10 years. Both these issues relate to my initial mortgage provider in a personal banking capacity. 

I wanted to get a sense of all any information in advance of meeting experts etc and Gosh it's been a learning exercise. 

My question, understanding the complexities of Statute Barred unsecured debt (I know they don't go away parsay) , will a PIP have to include these when formulating any potential PIA given their status (One Not active, one Still active albeit over 10 years, maturity date was actually 2008) but still unpaid. I ask primarily to understand what the overall PIA is likely to include debt wise when and if putting a proposal to creditors. 

As always, thanks again to everyone.


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## Jim Stafford (7 Jul 2021)

JD2021 said:


> I ask primarily to understand what the overall PIA is likely to include debt wise when and if putting a proposal to creditors.


The PIP will have to provide robust advice, particularly in your case as you have equity in your house and creditors would expect a 100% dividend.

You would have to swear a Prescribed Financial Statement setting out your liabilities. If you list a creditor who is actually statute barred, then the bar is lifted once the creditor sees the PFS, as you would have acknowledged the debt in writing.  Show the docs to your PIP who should be able to advise you.

Jim Stafford


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## JD2021 (7 Jul 2021)

Jim Stafford said:


> The PIP will have to provide robust advice, particularly in your case as you have equity in your house and creditors would expect a 100% dividend.
> 
> You would have to swear a Prescribed Financial Statement setting out your liabilities. If you list a creditor who is actually statute barred, then the bar is lifted once the creditor sees the PFS, as you would have acknowledged the debt in writing.  Show the docs to your PIP who should be able to advise you.
> 
> Jim Stafford


Fantastic Jim, appreciate that, thank you


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## Isabella21 (2 Aug 2021)

FYI
The limitation period in relation to any judgment mortgage is 12 years from the date on which the judgment became enforceable (i.e. the date on which the judgment was obtained.

A judgment mortgage obtained more than 12 years ago can be cancelled by lodging an affidavit setting out the relevant facts


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## JD2021 (2 Aug 2021)

Isabella21 said:


> FYI
> The limitation period in relation to any judgment mortgage is 12 years from the date on which the judgment became enforceable (i.e. the date on which the judgment was obtained.
> 
> A judgment mortgage obtained more than 12 years ago can be cancelled by lodging an affidavit setting out the relevant facts


Hi there, 

Yes that info has been clarified, however there was additional interaction with regard to the judgment up to March 2014. In essence I'm awaiting Barrister advice on weather this engagement which included an acknowledgement on my behalf of the Judgement restarts the clock as it were from 2014. It is likely it will. 

It was my mistaken understanding that this judgement was absorbed as part of my mortgage being sold, I've not had any correspondence regarding this issue since 2014.

Just a quick update on general progress. 

Mabs have now taken over discussions with the Vulture Fund, it has been accepted a 6 month interest only agreement was in place which I adhered too, this is up to November, it seems an error was made in issuing the demand. 

Regardless I've asked Mabs to see what if any long term options are open to me. My initial concern is the Judgement mortgage and any potential enforcement and what it's status is re statue barred. In essence if it IS not I'll need to decide if to focus on this or clear arrears and proceed with either a Mabs led long term solution or a PIA. 

There appears to be no imminent treat of Repossession litigation, I continue to pay interest only and hopefully will have an update this week. 

Thanks again everyone who has contributed


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## Isabella21 (2 Aug 2021)

I really hope that there is no written acknowledgement that might re start the clock.. Banks can be bad at managing paperwork and records. I think your main focus should be dealing with the vulture fund and getting an agreement. You have a fair bit of equity so i think you are in a relatively good position and you have people helping you so i hope you get a good outcome.


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## JD2021 (2 Aug 2021)

Isabella21 said:


> I really hope that there is no written acknowledgement that might re start the clock.. Banks can be bad at managing paperwork and records. I think your main focus should be dealing with the vulture fund and getting an agreement. You have a fair bit of equity so i think you are in a relatively good position and you have people helping you so i hope you get a good outcome.


Thanks so much, yes I'm fortunate in some respects given some situations I've heard about. Mabs we're initially very surprised by the Vulture funds move but it transpired to be an error, this said its motivated me for various reasons include health to deal with the challenge once and for all. I do believe the clock was reset re the judgment but as explained previously not a word about it since 2014, but it hangs over me albeit I'd never any intention of selling my home. 

It's early days in this process but I have to say there's been many on AAM that have offered reassurance and objective advice, which I sincerely appreciate


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## JD2021 (6 Aug 2021)

Morning all, 

Just a quick update. Mabs have reams of paperwork requested from the Vulture fund, on foot of their purchase of my mortgage, when all is reviewed a proposal will be submitted. 

Just a note on split mortgages. Back in 2014, I attempted a resolution with PTSB, my understanding was an amount to be warehoused, and remainder on an interest only payment for a defined period, returning too full payment etc, the warehoused part, no repayment, no interest accruing but would need to be discharged at maturity date. All fine so far. Here is the Kicker, I genuinely had no idea as part of this arrangement I was actually extending my mortgage by 8 years, my mistake was, when split arrangement made, the term length was in months (standard), however, I understood that to be from original mortgage dates, not from date of split mortgage arrangement. Foolish on my behalf and I doubt I'll have any recourse. It doesn't actually materially change over all debt. 

Re Statue Barred Judgement mortgage, seperate to main challenge, I've now had confirmation from Barrister that due to technical engagement /acknowledgement in 2014, his opinion is it will be 3 years before this debt would be statue barred, despite original judgement date of 2009. It remains a grey area about what is deemed acknowledgement as correspondence from Solicitors is generally regarded as without prejudice. Jim correctly expressed his reservations on this matter. In essence this matter will hang over any ultimate decision I reach, advice recieved etc. I can only hope no enforcement action taken on this particular issue. 

So that's the general update, Mabs confident my position given the amount of mortgage debt is low is good, it's down to a sustainable repayment moving forward and they mentioned my interest rate coukd be looked at. 

Thanks all, have a great weekend


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## Lone Star (12 Aug 2021)

@Brendan Burgess  I took on a financial advisor several years back. A really good guy, knows the ins and outs from both sides, he is PIP qualified, but does'nt work as a PIP, instead he works with them, easier life. Can I pass on his details to this poster? He really is a decent guy, based in Tullamore. Reasonble in terms of rates and straight to the point.


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## JD2021 (16 Aug 2021)

Morning, just a quick question re mortgage protection policy and my situation, apologies if I should be asking in the insurance forums. 

I have a mortgage protection policy in place, crucially it has a critical illness benefit attached. As a result of the different maturity dates on my mortgage this policy will infact lapse 8 years before mortgage maturity dates. I'm at an age (54) with health challenges and the policy with Irish life is maintained by me completely Seperately to Vulture Fund albeit they are assigned as benificeries after purchasing mortgage from PTSB. 

The Policy costs €55 per month and its value reduces in line with mortgage maturity. 

It's doubtful due to age and health I'd even be considered for a new policy or indeed if it were possible to extend the policy length. 

Has anyone any ideas, suggestions, I'm just keen to maintain some level of cover if at all possible. 

Thank you


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## JD2021 (27 Aug 2021)

Quick question, nearing a decision. 

It's not very clear if a person is eligible for a PIA if they do not have arrears. 

I ask as I'm leaning towards clearing arrears and moving forward with the hope I can manage a new arrangement with the help of Mabs (excellent I have to say) 

The spectre of the Judgement mortgage remains in this scenario, I can not deal with both. 

My question if anyone can advise. 

Does a person have to be in arrears to be eligible for a PIA or is it a Person has to have a secured debt 

Thanks again everyone.


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## JD2021 (1 Sep 2021)

Hi All, 

Quick update. 

I've decided to proceed by clearing all and any arrears. In essence, whilst I initially thought my situation was grim the reality was more confusion, partly on my part but some pretty shocking matters came to light with regard to what the vulture fund understood was actual arrears, the interest rate I was being charged, the terms re split mortgage etc. 

Whilst a PIA was and remains an option, the advice ultimately leaned towards getting arrears sorted removing any immediate concerns about the vulture fund seeking repossession or seeking full clearance of the €44k. The split remains a seperate matter with no interest accruing of repayments necessary, I'll hopefully address that when and if my health challenges improve. 

Whilst the entirely seperate judgement mortgage still exists, there remains questions about it, wether I've acknowledged it and the likelyhood of it being enforced imminently, as explained there's me absolutely no engagement, communications etc since 2014 and anything after 2009 when it was obtained may have been subject to without prejudice considerations. Its a concern but I have to focus on the now. 

I'm awaiting clarity on what my full mortgage payment will be moving forward once arrears paid and I'm fortunate to have some financial support. 

I just wanted to say thanks to all who offered advice and kind words. It's still a challenge ahead but at last I've a sense of were I am at and it's been quite some time since I aware of that. 

Thanks again.


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