# Can i stop worrying abut money?



## 52andout (16 May 2016)

Age: 52
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 50

Annual gross income from employment or profession: 0 unemployed
Annual gross income of spouse: 48k

Monthly take-home pay 3300 per month

Type of employment:  private sector

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?
spending >income 1000 per month since lost job

Rough estimate of value of home 500k
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: 0
*What interest rate are you paying? n/a*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc none

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?  yes
If not, what is the balance on your credit card?

Savings and investments:900k savings certs bank deposits

Do you have a pension scheme?  yes ( previous jobs)
DC and prsas total 650k (not accessed yet)
DB @ 65  20k per annum

Do you own any investment or other property? no

Ages of children: 10

Life insurance: none


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

Have i enough to assets to stop worrying about money
even if expenditure - income = 1000 per month?
(expenditure = 4300 per month - detailed budget done allowing for everything)*

*I think so provided wife keeps her job but welcome views
*


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## Easeler (16 May 2016)

52andout said:


> Age: 52
> Spouse’s/Partner's age: 50
> 
> Annual gross income from employment or profession: 0 unemployed
> ...


The worry I would have is will I live long enough to spend all my money ,man your in a super poistion enjoy


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## Sarenco (16 May 2016)

You appear to have a net worth of ~€2.5million @52.   Yes, I think you can stop worrying about money.


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## mtk (17 May 2016)

Great position. Probably no need to worry. 
The main risks you face imho are 
inflation impact on bank deposits/savings certs
DB scheme not funded when you retire
rising education costs
partner/wife loses job

once more well done!


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## North Star (17 May 2016)

To echo other posters, it appears you are in an enviably strong financial position. However rather than make an educated guess, we would recommend that you pay a fee to a financial planner to fully map out your financial position both current and projected over the likely remainder of your lives. This should be based on conservative/realistic assumptions. Then you can stress test the plan to see how your finances hold up against any adverse scenarios. These could include partner/wife loses job, long term care cost for either/both of you, material fall in pension/PRSA values due to market crash and also what is probably a key risk, long term impact of inflation.
This should bring clarity to the question you are asking, which we find is always the key financial question ' Do or will I have enough money to support my lifestyle for the rest of my life?' I suspect the results will be reassuring but there is real benefit in being accurate and quantifying key metrics on liquid assets, net worth etc. especially in the adverse scenarios.
We find that the exercise provides both clarity and comfort in most cases. It can also help both partners to get a handle on their finances, which is relevant when one partner exclusively deals with the finances. We always recommend that both partners have at least a working knowledge of key financial info. 
Given the sums involved, for a relatively modest fee, I believe such thorough financial planning or analysis would be money well spent, and should confirm that you can indeed stop worrying...
All the best Vincent


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## 52andout (17 May 2016)

*[*QUOTE="mtk, post: 1473616, member: 41262"]
The main risks you face imho are
inflation impact on bank deposits/savings certs
DB scheme not funded when you retire
rising education costs
partner/wife loses job

[/QUOTE]

mtk I agree with those points very perceptive of you

Anyone any thoughts on what i should diversify into from deposits/savings certs?


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## Fella (17 May 2016)

Well done on getting into such a great financial position , I'm no expert but would think you have enough. 
You could always sell your house and rent or downsize that would free up more money (Not that I think you will ever need to but it's an option). I'd love to get to 50's in this position smashing stuff.


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## Sarenco (17 May 2016)

52andout said:


> *[*QUOTE="mtk, post: 1473616, member: 41262"]
> 
> Anyone any thoughts on what i should diversify into from deposits/savings certs?



If I was ever lucky enough to find myself in your enviable position, I would make sure that the bulk of my PRSA/DC fund (perhaps even 100%) was invested in globally diversified equity funds.  

Beyond that it really doesn't matter what you do - you have more than enough in reserve to see you through the balance of your life based on your projected lifestyle/expenses.  

Why take unnecessary risks?  Your fixed income investments will probably keep pace with inflation and beyond that does it really matter?

If you want to start thinking about investing for your kids then you might want to think about transferring €100k, or so, from your state savings products into something like Foreign & Colonial Investment Trust (given that you will have a very low marginal tax rate) but ultimately it's probably not going to make a huge difference to your lifestyle or even your legacy.

Here's a link to a similar question posed by a poster that was looking for opinions as to whether they could comfortably retire with around half your net worth that you might find helpful:-
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/retiring-at-50.197488/


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## 52andout (17 May 2016)

Sarenco said:


> If I was ever lucky enough to find myself in your enviable position, I would make sure that the bulk of my PRSA/DC fund (perhaps even 100%) was invested in globally diversified equity funds.



I agree with that idea and think most but not all are .  i will check



Sarenco said:


> Why take unnecessary risks?  Your fixed income investments will probably keep pace with inflation and beyond that does it really matter?



Again I agree.



Sarenco said:


> Here's a link to a similar question posed by a poster that was looking for opinions as to whether they could comfortably retire with around half your net worth that you might find helpful:-
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/retiring-at-50.197488/



v useful read thanks


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## mtk (17 May 2016)

52andout said:


> mtk I agree with those points very perceptive of you



No problem "52" your welcome
Even despite these risks i reckon you will be fine 
Have you anyway to earn money working part time as presumably you got this far with some skill i am sure!


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## RichInSpirit (17 May 2016)

That's the trouble with money. Not enough of it is bad enough but too much of the stuff is much worse.
All the headaches of trying to mind it and stopping other people from getting their hands on it can be most worrisome.
I suggest giving a big portion of it away to charity and lift the weight off your shoulders.


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## moneybox (18 May 2016)

RichInSpirit said:


> I suggest giving a big portion of it away to charity and lift the weight off your shoulders.



Good idea but in reality few would do it. 

I hope the OP will find some other worthwhile aim in life now that he has achieved financial independence.


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## Andy836 (18 May 2016)

52andout said:


> *[*QUOTE="mtk, post: 1473616, member: 41262"]
> The main risks you face imho are
> inflation impact on bank deposits/savings certs
> DB scheme not funded when you retire
> ...



You're 52 and retired - well done and congrats i think.

Your cash should remain in deposits (spread across a range of banks under the deposit insurance limits) or govt bonds. You should not be going near any equities/growth funds when you've no future income.

As noted your main risk is inflation. You could hedge this by investing some in inflation indexed govt securities. there's TIPS here in the US and Index Linked Gilts in the UK but I've never heard of an irish one - perhaps you could buy those of  another larger euro zone country (I'm sure they're available) - although given how badly ireland manages it's economy I'm not sure german CPI would bear any resemblance to irish cpi.


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## Dan Murray (18 May 2016)

3 comments - 2 serious, 1 not

1. Given that OP is Scottish, he'll probably never stop worrying about money!

2. I'd be very interested in seeing a generic example of what North Star is proposing. It would be great to see such an example - and to see what others think.

(Personally, whilst I believe that such an exercise would be very useful, I'd be sceptical regarding the degree with which one can rely on such models. For example, in the late 90s, I received loads of actuarial models regarding the health of the pension fund in my company. Within a few years, the solvency level had gone from in excess of 150% to less than 80%. Explanations provided being that what occurred, at that time, represented almost 3 standard deviations from the central expectation or a c. 1 in a 100 year event. Roll forward to 2007/8 and guess what, we get another c. 1 in 50 year event. The pension plan needed to be wound up in 2010 - even then the projections for keeping it going were based on interest rates that look ridiculous at this stage.)

3.


Andy836 said:


> Your cash should remain in deposits (spread across a range of banks under the deposit insurance limits) or govt bonds. You should not be going near any equities/growth funds when you've no future income.
> 
> As noted your main risk is inflation.....



Maybe Andy is right! But - the certainty of his views is a little alarming - as is the extent of his conservatism which seems to me that he may well be replacing one risk with another. Maybe a middle ground would be more appropriate?


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## North Star (18 May 2016)

Good morning Dan,
The strength of the modelling is that it helps clarify issues, risks and priorities. It doesnt deliver the outcomes so we fully support your view that you cant rely on the model, and that any of the variables can and will change and as such the model outcomes change over time. It does however really add value to the planning process and forms the basis of an annual review when all  the variables are updated and the outputs revisited. Just good practice in my opinion.

Re your  thoughts re a generic example ... a generic example always lacks the impact of personalised analysis. 
What I can suggest to the OP, if they are interested is the following; We do this exercise for them and we waive the fee or it is donated to a charity of their choice, as they prefer. 
The OP can then, again if they wish, give feedback on this forum as to the benefits or indeed lack of benefits if that is the case, on the process. I will leave that with the OP.
Regards Vincent


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## Dan Murray (18 May 2016)

Hi Vincent
 You can't say fairer than that then (like the guy goes to the doctor unable to say the letter f and t).

Also, upon reflection, I accept the points you make regarding the merits of the exercise.


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## Andy836 (18 May 2016)

Dan Murray said:


> Maybe Andy is right! But - the certainty of his views is a little alarming - as is the extent of his conservatism which seems to me that he may well be replacing one risk with another. Maybe a middle ground would be more appropriate?



I'm never sure Dan! Middle ground most likely best but I don't think he should be going near any equities if he's finished his working life.


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## 52andout (19 May 2016)

Thanks for thoughtful comments guys and offer from vinny . I think I'll stay off the grid for now thanks .


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## 52andout (22 Nov 2016)

Just few updates
1) expenses coming in a bit ahead of projected but not enough to worry me
2) DC Pensions gone to 700k from 650k
3) Interest rates have gone even lower and savings certs maturing with nowhere to go .
4) 





moneybox said:


> I hope the OP will find some other worthwhile aim in life now that he has achieved financial independence.



This has been bothering me, Any suggestions in voluntary sector with good governance and low expenses/overheads


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## gnf_ireland (22 Nov 2016)

52andout said:


> 3) Interest rates have gone even lower and savings certs maturing with nowhere to go .


I will happily take them off your hands to ease that worry for you ! 



52andout said:


> Any suggestions in voluntary sector with good governance and low expenses/overheads


Any interest in going back to study something that you have an interest in, whether it be economics, politics, arts or whatever ? Any interest in exploring a hobby more, whether it be golf, photography, stamp collecting or lawn bowling ? Ever think about getting an allotment and growing your own veg ?

Does your 10 year old have any interests that you would like to 'piggy back' on so you can do things together and maintain that bond through their teenage years ? 

Being fair, you don't really have many financial worries and I would say you have reached financial independence. I would suggest you do some 'trips of a lifetime' with your family over the next decade, that your child will remember forever.


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## Sarenco (22 Nov 2016)

Great to hear from you again 52andout.

A few quick thoughts:-

Be careful not to let your expenses escalate _too_ much - you have a distance to go yet!
Global equities have performed very strongly in the very recent past but try not to peek at the value of your DC scheme too often - it's the long-term performance (20 years+) that really matters.
Interest rates have certainly fallen further but then so has inflation (CPI is currently minus 0.3%).  I still think 5-year State Savings Certificates are a great deal.
I don't think you need to make any radical changes to your investment approach given your circumstances.  You _could_ take on more investment risk but to what end?

Is there a particular area of the voluntary sector that you think could benefit from your time? I've no doubt that other posters will usefully put you to work once they have a sense of where your talents could best be employed!


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## Marion (22 Nov 2016)

Or ... You could always join Lucy Kellaway's campaign and become a teacher.

How great would that be. 

Marion


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## cremeegg (23 Nov 2016)

Marion said:


> Or ... You could always join Lucy Kellaway's campaign and become a teacher.
> 
> How great would that be.
> 
> Marion



No you couldn't. You would find it almost impossible to get a job.


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## moneybox (23 Nov 2016)

52andout said:


> This has been bothering me, Any suggestions in voluntary sector with good governance and low expenses/overheads



Look at charities in your local area, local knowledge is key. I support SVDP myself, there is a branch  in every town.


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## Bronte (24 Nov 2016)

52andout said:


> This has been bothering me, Any suggestions in voluntary sector with good governance and low expenses/overheads



I think this is very important for you.  You've relatively young.  It's important that you have a focus and an enjoyment.  Now is the time to take up sport.  Pick one you enjoy and that has a social aspect to it.  Golf is a great one, takes ages, is healthy without being too much and has a great social aspect to it.  However some people hate golf, that would be me, so something like a tennis club perhaps.  If you don't swim, now is the time to go to class, very good exercise that.  A daily walk.  Get a dog, one that needs exercise, and will give you company at home.  Take up art class, meet people that way.

What is it you always wanted to do, then do that.

I agree with the poster who suggested some wow holidays with your wife and child - don't underestimate that for wonderful memories.  My kids, still young, they remember the most amazing things.


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## 52andout (25 Nov 2016)

Thanks for suggestions .ALL Very helpful.
I Agree don't need to to worry more about money .

I will pursue the following:
Holiday of lifetime spend even if aleady allocate 8k for holidays!!
V de P agree v good
Fitness will do some 5ks as pretty fit already


Re teaching why no chance ?


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## gnf_ireland (29 Nov 2016)

52andout said:


> Re teaching why no chance ?



There is no 'voluntary' teaching positions in Ireland to my knowledge, so you would be competing for teaching jobs with younger graduates etc. I imagine if you qualified as at teacher at say 55 - you might struggle to get a position in the field

that said, I did not make the comment above - just adding my opinion to it


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## 52andout (1 Jun 2017)

52andout here 

Just coming back with another question rather than starting anew thread

Our Details as per Opening post except Wife losing job next month. Redundancy minimal - statutory.
* - see below  *


Question: Should I draw down from pension funds or use my savings to fund our 2018+ lifestyle or a bit of both ?


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## 52andout (1 Jun 2017)

OP updated

Age: 53
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 51

Annual gross income from employment or profession: 0 unemployed
Annual gross income of spouse: being made redundant 1k employment benefit for 9 months then assume 0

Monthly take-home pay 3300 per month

Type of employment:  n/a

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?
spending >income
*expenditure = 4400 per month - detailed budget done allowing for everything)*

Rough estimate of value of home 600k
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: 0
*What interest rate are you paying? n/a*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc none

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?  yes
If not, what is the balance on your credit card?

Savings and investments:900k savings certs bank deposits



Do you have a pension scheme?  yes ( previous jobs)
DC and prsas total 750k (not accessed yet)
DB @ 63  18k per annum

Do you own any investment or other property? no

Ages of children: 11

Life insurance: none


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

(expenditure = 4400 per month - detailed budget done allowing for everything)*
Question: Should I draw down from pension funds or use my savings to fund our 2018+ lifestyle or a bit of both ?


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## Sarenco (1 Jun 2017)

Hi 52andout

It might make sense for you to refresh your OP with more up to date figures.

As a general principle, I think you should leave your pension funds alone for as long as you possibly can.  Hopefully the funds will continue to grow with no Irish tax drag.

Incidentally, are you making voluntary PRSI payments to keep up your entitlements?


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## 52andout (1 Jun 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Hi 52andout
> 
> It might make sense for you to refresh your OP with more up to date figures.


done


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## 52andout (1 Jun 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Hi 52andout
> 
> Incidentally, are you making voluntary PRSI payments to keep up your entitlements?



yes thanks


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## rjjd (3 Jun 2017)

52andout said:


> This has been bothering me, Any suggestions in voluntary sector with good governance and low expenses/overheads



Congratulations on your enviable position. Well done.

Re good governance and low expenses. These are not mutually exclusive. Good governance costs money. Could I suggest you look at Boardmatch.ie. They match specific skills to vetted charities.


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## postman pat (3 Jun 2017)

RichInSpirit said:


> That's the trouble with money. Not enough of it is bad enough but too much of the stuff is much worse.
> All the headaches of trying to mind it and stopping other people from getting their hands on it can be most worrisome.
> I suggest giving a big portion of it away to charity and lift the weight off your shoulders.


 
or to me........


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