# Inactive savings account with PTSB



## scallywag (24 Oct 2020)

I've just discovered that a savings account I have with PTSB has become "inactive", because there has been no transaction on it for 3 years. This account is a "Notice Savings" account, so it's quite normal that there's not much activity - the whole point is that it needs to be left for the notice period to earn the (minimal) interest.

Having spent about 20 minutes on the phone, I find that to reactivate the account I'm supposed to send a letter to head office, together with proof of identity and address.

This really frustrates me. A bank that has a decent online presence, suddenly needs me to write a letter, with photocopies of documents. I don't have a printer or photocopier, they're generally not needed anymore. How come that online, I can transfer money out no problem, but not fix this simple issue? And why not trigger an automatic warning to a customer a month before an account becomes inactive?

I asked these questions of the employee on the phone but got no sensible answers. If anybody can give me a decent explanation, I'm all ears, it might ease my fuming!


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## Freelance (25 Oct 2020)

Its in their T&Cs, Section 4(i) on Page 14. 



> We reserve the right to require verification of identity and address from you where your Account is designated as an ‘Inactive’ Account, that is to say where no transactions have been effected on the Account for a continuous period of 3 years and for the purposes of this Condition, a transaction is a lodgement or transfer to or a withdrawal or transfer from the Account.



I queried this previously (specifically why their in house term for inactive accounts was so much shorter than the Dormant Accounts legislation) and the response was along the lines that it is intended to protect people who move house, forget about an account, die/become incapacitated, etc. Presumably it also has some totally unintended and accidentally beneficial impact on the treatment of these accounts on the bank's balance sheet, capital/cashflow calculations etc. 

So for now, just suck it up and post the documents. To avoid it happening again make a note to lodge the minimum possible on or soon after 1st Jan every coupe of years.


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## scallywag (25 Oct 2020)

Fair point Freelance, and they did mention that to me. But still very customer-unfriendly IMO. I'm going to drop into their head office myself (it's not too far from me) and insist they write the letter themselves, if only to make a point and make me feel better.


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## jpd (25 Oct 2020)

When where banks ever customer friendly?


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## tomdublin (26 Oct 2020)

Can't you just bring the documents to a branch? Then they could make their own copies.


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## Jim2007 (26 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> Fair point Freelance, and they did mention that to me. But still very customer-unfriendly IMO. I'm going to drop into their head office myself (it's not too far from me) and insist they write the letter themselves, if only to make a point and make me feel better.





jpd said:


> When where banks ever customer friendly?



It's not a question of being customer friendly, it's a question of compliance with the law.  The account has not been used for three years, should it go pear shaped, the bank could face serious legal consequences.

And playing silly buggers is not advisable, because if they become suspicious of you, the next step is to report you as a potential money launderer... and the people you will have to deal with then don't even have customer friendliness at the bottom of their list.


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## Freelance (26 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> But still very customer-unfriendly IMO.



I couldn’t agree more.  A simple standard letter or email advising you that the account was about to be deactivated would have avoided the issue. The senior management in Irish banks appear to have decided that retail customers (other than their much prized “private clients”) are an unprofitable nuisance barely worthy of tolerance and forbearance. And this nasty attitude has percolated down through the ranks leading to the front line staff treating customers in an offhand and disdainful manner at best and with utter contempt at worst. It happens regularly both in branch and on the telophany and online communications channels. but there is little point in arguing with them, you won’t win.  Stick the documents they want in an envelope and post it off to satisfy their silly little outdated in-house procedure and save your blood pressure.


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## tomdublin (27 Oct 2020)

Jim2007 said:


> It's not a question of being customer friendly, it's a question of compliance with the law.  The account has not been used for three years, should it go pear shaped, the bank could face serious legal consequences.
> 
> And playing silly buggers is not advisable, because if they become suspicious of you, the next step is to report you as a potential money launderer... and the people you will have to deal with then don't even have customer friendliness at the bottom of their list.


Why would having an inactive account make you suspected of being a money launderer?


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## scallywag (29 Oct 2020)

tomdublin said:


> Can't you just bring the documents to a branch? Then they could make their own copies.


That's what I'll be doing. And letting them know of my displeasure.


Jim2007 said:


> It's not a question of being customer friendly, it's a question of compliance with the law.  The account has not been used for three years, should it go pear shaped, the bank could face serious legal consequences.
> 
> And playing silly buggers is not advisable, because if they become suspicious of you, the next step is to report you as a potential money launderer... and the people you will have to deal with then don't even have customer friendliness at the bottom of their list.


My understanding is that a legally dormant account is one that had no transactions for 15 years. This seems to be PTSB's own definition of "inactive", which is just 3 years.


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## lowspender (29 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> That's what I'll be doing. And letting them know of my displeasure.
> 
> My understanding is that a legally dormant account is one that had no transactions for 15 years. This seems to be PTSB's own definition of "inactive", which is just 3 years.


My credit union also quoted 3 year rule. I now transfer a small amount  from my shares account to my deposit account every January.


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## Jim2007 (30 Oct 2020)

tomdublin said:


> Why would having an inactive account make you suspected of being a money launderer?



It does not, but trying to have it reactivate while refusing to provide the required documentation and playing silly buggers will.


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## Jim2007 (30 Oct 2020)

Freelance said:


> Stick the documents they want in an envelope and post it off to satisfy their silly little outdated in-house procedure and save your blood pressure.



Their procedure is not out of date, in fact it is right up to date and is intended to prevent a common money laundering tactic that relies on using dormant and in active accounts.


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## Jim2007 (30 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> My understanding is that a legally dormant account is one that had no transactions for 15 years. This seems to be PTSB's own definition of "inactive", which is just 3 years.



It has nothing to do with dormant accounts.  MLA requires banks to be up to date with a customers financial affairs.  If something goes wrong on an account that has not been touched for three years, they are going to have a hard time convincing the DOJ that they are complying with the law.


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## scallywag (30 Oct 2020)

Jim2007 said:


> Their procedure is not out of date, in fact it is right up to date and is intended to prevent a common money laundering tactic that relies on using dormant and in active accounts.


OK fair enough if that's the purpose - but I already proved my identity to them when setting up the account. And now I have a full online setup available to me where I can transfer up to €5000 per day to any account I like. So they must be satisfied with my identity. They can see that I login regularly, and have regular transactions on other accounts. Is that not enough security for them to just add a button online for this account to say "reactivate account"? Instead of asking me to write a letter?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (30 Oct 2020)

Banks have to set up internal money laundering controls on a risk basis. Maybe they have some internal analysis showing that inactive accounts are regularly used for suspicious transactions. I don't know.

It could also be a tool to get rid of accounts that are costing them money.


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## Jim2007 (30 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> OK fair enough if that's the purpose - but I already proved my identity to them when setting up the account.



And you can expect to be asked several more times in the coming years to reconfirm your identity.  It is standard practice all across Europe.

Just because an online presence is indicated, does not mean that the account is still under the control of the person who created it.


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## Jim2007 (30 Oct 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Banks have to set up internal money laundering controls on a risk basis. Maybe they have some internal analysis showing that inactive accounts are regularly used for suspicious transactions. I don't know.



The basic tricks are that by the time owner of the account starts using it again they have valid reasons why they can no longer provide evidence that the balance was clean in the first place or they have simple "sold" the clean balance to someone else.


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## scallywag (30 Oct 2020)

I dropped by my bank branch today and to be fair they sorted it immediately with very little fuss. I just had to show ID, they did the rest.
Interestingly they mentioned that anytime from 18 months without activity, an account can be deemed inactive. With PTSB.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (30 Oct 2020)

scallywag said:


> I dropped by my bank branch today and to be fair they sorted it immediately with very little fuss. I just had to show ID, they did the rest.
> Interestingly they mentioned that anytime from 18 months without activity, an account can be deemed inactive. With PTSB.


Set up an annual standing order of a euro or something so that it doesn't happen again.


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## Freelance (1 Nov 2020)

Jim2007 said:


> Their procedure is not out of date, in fact it is right up to date



It's 2020. Any procedure that requires a letter and documents being posted to Head Office is appallingly out of date. Absolutely no reason why this can't be done online other than PTSB's outdated in-house procedure.


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