# Another huge ESB bill!



## Calico

Oh, I'm not a happy cat right now. I have just got my esb bill for the last 2 months and it is 383 euros! It's estimated, so I read the meter and it actually should be about 483 euros which is even worse! Obviously I owe the money but is this a typical bill or am I somehow using a lot more electricity than normal people. The thing is I try to be conscious of not using too much electricity!

I'm single, live in a 2 bedroom apartment, use the emersion for about 2 hours a day to heat the water and then the washing machine/dishwasher/oven the same as what I would expect a normal person would use. Heating - wise I only heat one room with one of those creda storage heaters & I do the nightsaver thing and try and put washes etc. on at night.

Can anyone suggest where I am going wrong & things that I can do to not use so much power? Or is my electricity bill & bill amount just average???


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## Lorraine B

Well, I share a 2 bedroom apartment and our last ESB bill was €84.  Ok so heating isn't included in that.  But why do you need the immersion on for 2 hours a day?


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## Calico

The emersion only has a switch (no timer) so I have to turn it on the night before for an hour or 2 ( I leave at 6am every morning). Maybe I should look into getting an electric shower when I can afford it?? Oh, I just gave the esb the meter reading, my bill should have been 433 euros....


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## Pee

Family home, electric shower, cooker, dishwasher (daily use), washing machine (daily use), dryer (2 a week) and the usual stuff - TVs, computers, DVD, etc. *No immersion*. Usual bi monthly bill €140.

Take out the immersion and install an electric shower to start with.


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## Brouhahaha

Try taking meter readings before and after the immersion is on for the two hours and do the maths from there.


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## paulfree

Switch absolutely everything off and then check the little wheel in the meter,if it is turning,some one else is using your electric,if not u need to cut back,the immersion is like boiling the kettle for 2 hours,very expensive.


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## ely

Check the thermostat in the tank. may not be working. Make sure you are reading the correct meter.


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## Ash

I came across a situation recently with a friend who lived in an apartment and whose ESB bills were unusually high.  
After much investigating, it became clear that there was an error in the metering system itself.  My friend was actually being charged for units which were being used by another apartment.  
I'd also recommend you double check whether the night saver meter is actually working.
Be vigilant and check the meters regularly - every week or day while you try to figure out what's making the bill so high.
Also, if you must use the immersion, be frugal about how long you leave it switched on.  Use a timer.  Or set an alarm on your watch, clock or phone as a reminder to switch it off.


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## Seagull

I would suggest you get an electrician in to fit a timer unit to the immersion.


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## aircobra19

Seagull said:


> I would suggest you get an electrician in to fit a timer unit to the immersion.



And an electric shower.


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## Carpenter

Your bills are are very high for the property size and number of occupants; our average bill is less than €150 (4 bed house, washing machine, dishwasher, lots of cooking etc- space heating and water heating is by oil though).  I don't think you'll find switching from immersion to electric shower will prove to be any more cost effective, possibly worse as you still need to heat your cylinder for hot in the washbasin, sink etc.  Definitely get a timer fitted, they cost about €50 (for the actual timer) and see how long you really need to have it one for to meet your requirements.  Also check the stat on the immersion itself, this may be set too high.  Are you sure you have a nightsaver meter and that it is working correctly (time set etc).  Just recently we've been trying to use the "eco" cycle on the dishwasher whenever possible.  I find that many people do not know or understand how to use storage heaters effectively.


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## kellysayers

Sounds to me like you are paying for a lot of electricity. If I were you i would ask the ESB to call out and make sure no one else is using your power. They will soon find out why it is so high


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## davidoco

You really can't use that much electricity in a two bed.  When was the last time you had a meter reading.  Was it more than six months ago? 

You might find that you are paying now for underestimated bills going back the last three or four bills.  So you’re paying now for these two months, 150, previous underestimated 100, previous underestimated 100, previous underestimated 100.


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## gebbel

Calico said:


> I'm single, live in a 2 bedroom apartment, use the emersion for about 2 hours a day to heat the water and then the washing machine/dishwasher/oven the same as what I would expect a normal person would use.


 
Something is obviously very wrong here. 2 hours a day immersion should not be responsible for that bill. Have your meter checked out


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## Thrifty1

There has to be a problem with your meter. I live in 2 bed apt with husband, we have storage heaters (2) on at highest all winter, we have the imersion on CONSTANTLY on sink, we work all day so only have some lights and tv on in evenings and weekends.

I put on about 5 washes a week (at 40 degrees), oven and at least one ring going at night for the dinner.

Our bills are about €100, got a bill for over €200 this month but it was a revised one which i expected as last bill was too low for all the usage over Christmas.

The tumble dryer uses a lot of power - do you use this a lot- i very rarely do as too expensive.

I was told that it is cheaper to leave the immersion on all the time as it will only heat the water to a certain temp and will only heat the amt of water you use - and our BSB bills prove that.


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## Seagull

Thrifty1 said:


> I was told that it is cheaper to leave the immersion on all the time as it will only heat the water to a certain temp and will only heat the amt of water you use - and our BSB bills prove that.


This assumes the thermostat on the immersion works correctly, and is set correctly.


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## aircobra19

Thrifty1 said:


> T....I was told that it is cheaper to leave the immersion on all the time as it will only heat the water to a certain temp and will only heat the amt of water you use - and our BSB bills prove that.



Water cools and will have to be reheated. If all you use is a sink full why heat it all day when you are out?


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## beldin

An interesting device I say on one of the BBC's "Its Not Easy Being Green" program was an electricity usage monitor. Seems to clip onto your meter and connects via wireless to a monitor that you have in the house.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Electrisave-Wireless-Electricity-Monitor.htm

Could be an interesting purchase and it shows the cost of the electricity you are using.


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## Thrifty1

> Water cools and will have to be reheated. If all you use is a sink full why heat it all day when you are out?


 
We would use more than a sink throughout the day. I shower in the morning, DH usually showers in the evening, washing up, washing hands, etc, with the immersion on all day we always have hot water when we want it.
The tank is lagged so water will stay warmer for longer.


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## peno

Have to agree with a lot of the above.
4 bed house 2 young kids so loads of washing, oh home every day so some elctricity is constantly being used in the day, diswasher oven etc and bill is approx 150 per bill (bimonthly). Also use the immersion but not every day.

Get meter checked.


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## rgfuller

beldin said:


> An interesting device I say on one of the BBC's "Its Not Easy Being Green" program was an electricity usage monitor. Seems to clip onto your meter and connects via wireless to a monitor that you have in the house.
> 
> http://www.reuk.co.uk/Electrisave-Wireless-Electricity-Monitor.htm
> 
> Could be an interesting purchase and it shows the cost of the electricity you are using.


 
These are available here too: [broken link removed]
Though you can pick them up on e-bay too for about €100 delivered.


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## gotsomenow

You should visit the esb website, they have a tool online where you can calculate the cost of running appliances going by the hours you use them.  It was fairly accurate with my bill.


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## SineWave

Would agree with other posters on storage heater ignorance among some, caused by a clear lack of instruction from suppliers.
Are you sure you are fifferentiating between storage part of heater and combi part that is fitted with some?


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## KalEl

peno said:


> Have to agree with a lot of the above.
> 4 bed house 2 young kids so loads of washing, oh home every day so some elctricity is constantly being used in the day, diswasher oven etc and bill is approx 150 per bill (bimonthly). Also use the immersion but not every day.
> 
> Get meter checked.


 
I don't agree...when I moved into my apartment I just behaved what I considered to be "normally" and my first couple of bills were astronomical like yours. People quoting their stats about their houses is irrelevant. It's the storage heaters that cause the bulk of the problem. Obviously tumble dryers and immersion eat the juice as well.
My bill is €250 every two months now...normal for a 2 bed with electrical heating.

My advice is :

-Check you are using the storage heaters correctly. Never ever use the boost function. Only use one per room even if there's two in the bigger rooms.
-Only tumble dry at night.
-Use timers on all other radiators.
-Get a timer on your Immersion...have it on for 2.5 hours from 03.30 to 06.00. That should get you 3 showers, a shave and washing up pots/stuff that don't fit the dishwasher.


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## Thrifty1

> My bill is €250 every two months now...normal for a 2 bed with electrical heating


 
I dont think this is normal, i think its very high. I also do think quoting stats about our house type and usage helps.

Like i said previously i live in 2 bed - have storage heaters on practically all year round (with a boost in afternoon), immersion on all day long.

In my parents house there was a meter on the wall and you could see how much different electrical appliances used.
The worst were electric shower, tumble dryer and kettle.

Our bill is about €100 (bimonthly).


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## KalEl

Thrifty1 said:


> I dont think this is normal, i think its very high. I also do think quoting stats about our house type and usage helps.
> 
> Like i said previously i live in 2 bed - have storage heaters on practically all year round (with a boost in afternoon), immersion on all day long.
> 
> In my parents house there was a meter on the wall and you could see how much different electrical appliances used.
> The worst were electric shower, tumble dryer and kettle.
> 
> Our bill is about €100 (bimonthly).


 
Sorry Thrifty...the figure you're quoting cannot be true.


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## scatriona

hi OP,

It seems steep! We have a 2 bed apartment - electric oven/hob, washing machine, microwave, electric shower and ours is 25 euro per month - with Airtricity. Heating is gas and immersion is rarely used, maybe about 3 times per wk for max 2 hrs. I would investigate and make a bit of a fuss for them to take you seriously!

S


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## KalEl

scatriona said:


> hi OP,
> 
> It seems steep! We have a 2 bed apartment - electric oven/hob, washing machine, microwave, electric shower and ours is 25 euro per month - with Airtricity. Heating is gas and immersion is rarely used, maybe about 3 times per wk for max 2 hrs. I would investigate and make a bit of a fuss for them to take you seriously!
> 
> S


 
Again, hard to see the relevance of this post when it's clear electric heating is the problem


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## Dreamerb

KalEl said:


> Sorry Thrifty...the figure you're quoting cannot be true.


I agree, and I'd also suggest Thrifty should check the meter. If the meter can't be read (gated community / no externally accessible meter) then it's possible these are estimated readings that don't assume electric heating. I had this problem years ago in a rented place with electric underfloor heating, and at the end of our tenancy, we got a horrendous bill because we'd never thought of checking.


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## Towger

We have yet to ascertain what happens to the meter when everything is turned of in the apartment. It is very possible the wrong meter is assigned to the apartment or it is 'incorrectly wired'. ie someone/something else is also on it. For all the OP knows they are paying the for the hall lighting, water pumps or lifts. 

These checks may have to be performed over a period of the. eg before going to work, read the meter and read the meter when arriving home.

So turn everything off, but leave CU breakers /switches on.
Check if meter is turning. 
If meter is still turning turn off switches on CU to isolate the circuit using power. Note: You have to leave the Main and RCB on to supply the socket MCBs.
If meter is still turning with all CU switches off then you are reading the wrong meter or someone is stealing your power.
If you can isolate one circuit using power and everything on it is off, them you will need an electrician to trace there the power is going.



Towger

BTW. Also check the the Night Saver (do you have it ??) is working correctly. It might not be switching over, or switching at the wrong time.


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## Killter

Make sure the storage heater is working right/settings are correct. I had bother with one of those before. They can be expensive if not in good order.


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## Thrifty1

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thrifty1* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=407714#post407714
> _I dont think this is normal, i think its very high. I also do think quoting stats about our house type and usage helps._
> 
> _Like i said previously i live in 2 bed - have storage heaters on practically all year round (with a boost in afternoon), immersion on all day long._
> 
> _In my parents house there was a meter on the wall and you could see how much different electrical appliances used._
> _The worst were electric shower, tumble dryer and kettle._
> 
> _Our bill is about €100 (bimonthly)._
> 
> 
> Sorry Thrifty...the figure you're quoting cannot be true.


 
You were right i checked some bills last night and they are about €150 every two months. We do have access to the meter and we check it a couple of times a year to make sure it is right.

Our storage heaters are on full blast for about 6/7 months of year and on med/high for remainder and immersion on 24/7.

Still a lot less than OP thought at nearly €400!!


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## KalEl

Interesting that you keep your immersion on 24/7...mine is on for about 2.5 hours before I get up. I have heard from some people that it actually uses less electricity to have it on all the time. Does anyone know for sure if this is the case?


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## Graham_07

HAve had 2 estimated bills in succession - both UNDERestimated so now owe ESB over €70. Letting it ride so when bill falls a bit in summer should catch up then. If they can't go to the trouble of reading meter & its under well thats €70 in my pocket for a bit longer.

On immersions, 
1) defo get an electric shower in , 

2) the immersion cuts in to heat the water. I have been told by an electrician that if the water is maintaining a steady temp then immersion cuts in less. By turning the immersion on and off the water is cooling then needs more power to get up to temp again so in theory at least the immersion is using more power by turning it on and off then by leaving it on alltogether. You would have to do the sums on this to see if it works out in reality but the theory seems to make sense. 

3) I must agre with Des Bishop........this country has way too serious a hang up about immersions


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## aircobra19

I can't imagine that turning on/off an immersion over an hour or two, would use more electricity than it being on 24/7. Mythbusters did a test on a light bulb and it was more efficient to turn it on/off than leave it on all the time.


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## Carpenter

I'm very sceptical that there's any scientific evidence to prove that leaving an immersion heater on 24/7 is more energy efficient than turning it on only as required, assuming that the immersion cuts in and out as the integral stat functions.  A heated cylinder of water (no matter how well insulated) loses some of its heat through the cylinder walls and connected pipework; an immersion that is continuously powered on will switch on intermittently to compensate for this heat loss, depending on the responsiveness of the integral stat.  A cylinder that's heated only when required will have to riase the water temperature by a greater degree but heat loss during the heat up is less than in the former case.  Does this make sense?  M&E engineers out their.


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## aircobra19

Look at this way you've constant heat loss for 24 hrs vs 2 or 3.


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## Purple

The problem is bigger than an immersion. We leave ours on 24/7 as well and when we had it on a timer I didn't notice any real saving. Whatever the cost it's not over €200 on each bill.


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## KalEl

aircobra19 said:


> Look at this way you've constant heat loss for 24 hrs vs 2 or 3.


 
To be fair it's more the huge amount of electricity required to heat a large insulated cylinder of water from cold to a given temperature versus the amount of electricity required to maintain a large insulated cylinder of water at that temperature.


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## aircobra19

KalEl said:


> To be fair it's more the huge amount of electricity required to heat a large insulated cylinder of water from cold to a given temperature versus the amount of electricity required to maintain a large insulated cylinder of water at that temperature.



How long does it take, 20-30 mins? How often do you need that much water in one go? Usually all you need is a shower or a sinkful. If you are using that much water a lot then you still have to heat the whole cylinder as its constantly being filled with cold water. 

IMO its like  having a electric bar heater on for 2 or 3 hours vs 24. Doesn't matter if the room get hot or not, its the length of the heater is on. Thats what you get charged for.


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## KalEl

aircobra19 said:


> How long does it take, 20-30 mins? How often do you need that much water in one go? Usually all you need is a shower or a sinkful. If you are using that much water a lot then you still have to heat the whole cylinder as its constantly being filled with cold water.
> 
> IMO its like having a electric bar heater on for 2 or 3 hours vs 24. Doesn't matter if the room get hot or not, its the length of the heater is on. Thats what you get charged for.


 
No, you see I stick it on with the timer for 2.5 hours at about 4 in the morning. That lasts the whole day.
Boosting it when required would be by far the most expensive way to do it.
What some people are saying is to have it on 24/7. That way you're using electricity just to maintain heat, not to heat up a large amount of water from scratch. This may or may not be the cheapest approach.


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## aircobra19

Don't get your last post KalEl.

Way I see, having it on 24/7 even its temperature controled and turning on/off itself, it will still be "on" longer overall than simply turning it on for a hour or two at specific times. 

Its simply "on" for longer. 

We rarely use the immersion. We use the gas to do it on timer.


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## KalEl

aircobra19 said:


> Don't get your last post KalEl.
> 
> Way I see, having it on 24/7 even its temperature controled and turning on/off itself, it will still be "on" longer overall than simply turning it on for a hour or two at specific times.
> 
> Its simply "on" for longer.
> 
> We rarely use the immersion. We use the gas to do it on timer.


 
See it's not like a TV where you're talking about it being just on or off.

It requires a large amount of electricity to heat a water tank from cold to hot. Some people believe it uses less electricity to have the immersion "on" permanently. In reality it's not on permanently...it just click on occassionally to maintain the temperature.
Whatever about that, it's certainly more expensive just to stick it on when you need a shower, have to do dishes etc.


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## rob30

Is your hot water timer made by Grasslin? Ours was, and we got a notice saying there was a manufacturing problem that meant it was heating water all day. It was changed and our bills plummetted.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=258033


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## aircobra19

KalEl said:


> See it's not like a TV where you're talking about it being just on or off.
> 
> It requires a large amount of electricity to heat a water tank from cold to hot. Some people believe it uses less electricity to have the immersion "on" permanently. In reality it's not on permanently...it just click on occassionally to maintain the temperature.
> Whatever about that, it's certainly more expensive just to stick it on when you need a shower, have to do dishes etc.



I still believe that if you add up all those little times the immersion is actually on, when its left on permanently it will still have been "on" longer in total than if its only put on when you need it. When an immersion is on for 30mins its still only on for 30mins. Its doesn't use more electicity than it being on for 30x1min intervals.


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## Thrifty1

> I still believe that if you add up all those little times the immersion is actually on, when its left on permanently it will still have been "on" longer in total than if its only put on when you need it. When an immersion is on for 30mins its still only on for 30mins. Its doesn't use more electicity than it being on for 30x1min intervals.


AND


> How long does it take, 20-30 mins? How often do you need that much water in one go? Usually all you need is a shower or a sinkful. If you are using that much water a lot then you still have to heat the whole cylinder as its constantly being filled with cold water.


 
The imersion will take much longer to heat even a sinkful of water, usually about 2 hours.

The immersion has a switch sink/bath i leave it on sink constantly and it seems to be the same cost wise as turning it on when needed.

Like other posters said it switches on when needed to bring the temp back up.

You can argue all day long about it, but we used to turn it on when needed and now we leave it on all day (at the advice of an engineer) and no difference in our bills.

As we have noticed no difference we leave it on constantly as it is more convenient to have hot water always available.


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## aircobra19

Thrifty1 said:


> ....The imersion will take much longer to heat even a sinkful of water, usually about 2 hours....



Theres something wrong with it then. From cold ours heats a sinkful in under 10mins. Enough for a bath about 30~40mins. Mind you I don't think its a very big tank. If it takes 2 hours everytime you need a sinkful, I can see why you'd leave it on constantly and why theres no signifcant difference between that and on all the time. Theres good and bad engineers. 

[broken link removed]


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## Mr2

Our elec bill is around €150.00 for two months, we leave the imersion on all the time, and it's controlled with a thermostat. We have two storage heaters on down stairs working on the night rate and two heaters up stairs working on the dis-counted day rate.

 I went from turning the imersion on in the evening, taking half an hour to heat the water for a warm shower and very little water for to do the dishes to leaving on the imersion and it kicking in when ever it gets slightly colder and now have HOT water in the morning for a shower when I get up and straight away when I go home and all the times in between the day you want to wash your hands etc. No noticable difference in electricty bill.

Aircobra19, 10 mins will not heat the top of the cylinder enough for the water to be hot enough for a hot shower. It wouldn't make sence to turn on the imersion every time you wanted hot water in half an hour.  You would need an electronic timer to even accout for the weekend when your at home more and needing hot water. 

But it all depends on hot many people you have living in your app, and how often you wash yourself and wash dishes etc.


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## aircobra19

Mr2 said:


> ....Aircobra19, 10 mins will not heat the top of the cylinder enough for the water to be hot enough for a hot shower. It wouldn't make sence to turn on the imersion every time you wanted hot water in half an hour.  You would need an electronic timer to even accout for the weekend when your at home more and needing hot water. ...



I said 10mins for a sinkful. If you can shower in a sinkful well done. On average a shower use as much water as bath. To use a sinkful you must run through it.  Like you say it depends on your usage, and its different for everyone, so sweeping generalisations aren't all that useful. We rarely use the immersion at all. Shower is electric and instant. Gas CH heats water on a timer, We only use the imersion to speed up the heating of the cylinder if we are running more than one bathful. Must compare bills with what others have posted. In an another house we lived in, there was a mini cylinder beside the main cylinder that must have held about a sinkful. Never seen that before or since. Its noticeable how much less heating of the water is required when its a warm day, like we've had recently.


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## Mr2

Our switch has bath or sink options, we leave it on sink all the time. We have an electric pump operated shower with no heater element in it so require the immersion on to get hot water. Out of that we can get two showers and very hot water for dishes.

10mins with the immersion would not get a sink full of water hot enough to wash dishes properly. It might get a enough water warm enough to fill a small basin but thats about it. It would not be hot enough.

Just from the post above, it seems you have a house and before that a house, Have you had an app that was fully run on electricty and have bills
that were broken down into, dis-counted day rate's and night rates?

It wouldn't make sence for you to use your immersion as we do given your sitituation but in our's it does.


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## aircobra19

I don't think the issue here is that theres only one energy source, electricity. But that the immersions are inefficient and take longer than they should to heat up the water. You'd use a kettle quicker than the immersions you guys are using. I've seen this in warmer places, in holiday homes/apts where the immersion can be under powered, as the ambient water temp is a lot higher, you simply don't need that much power when its very hot in the summer. However if you stay there in the winter or have a cold spell and the ambient temps drops the immersions are inadequate to heat the water in a acceaptable time frame. So people who stay there all year round tend to upgrade their immersions. Of course it depend how much hot water you need aswell, number of people sharing the same  supply of hot water.

Perhaps a small instantaneous water heater would give you instant hot water much faster than having to heat the main cylinder all day?
http://www.stiebel-eltron.de/en/privatkunden/warmwasser/produkte/index.php

Might be something to ask the landlord.


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## Thrifty1

> I don't think the issue here is that theres only one energy source, electricity. But that the immersions are inefficient and take longer than they should to heat up the water. You'd use a kettle quicker than the immersions you guys are using


 
Aircobra you honestly dont have a clue what you are talking about. The OP lives in an apt and therefore the issue of only one source of electricity is very relevant.

There is no way your immersion heats up a sinkful in under 10 mins, no way at all that water could be hot. Just as there is no way you need a bathful to have a shower.

By shower and bath i mean the amount of water that is heated when you leave the immersion on the shower/bath switch.

Of course you would heat the kettle quicker you are heating a smaller amount of water.  

Like MR2 said 10 mins wouldnt even heat the top of the cylinder enough for a lukewarm shower.

With leaving the immersion on sink it means i have hot water when needed throughout the day with no difference to ESB bill then was i when heating when needed.

But there is a huge advantage in terms of convenience.


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## aircobra19

Well lets agree to disagree. 

I reckon theres a problem with an immersion taking 2hrs to heat a sinkful. You don't. I also think on average people use more than a sinkful for a shower, you don't. You think leaving an electrical heater on for 24hrs is cheaper than having it on less than 24hrs a day. 



> *If you turn your hot water heater off during the day, won't it cost more because you then have to heat up the whole tank and wait minutes before taking a shower? Also, isn't it kind of an inconvenience?* *[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]No, water heater energy consumption increases with higher water temperatures, and water heaters use more energy to heat water up and keep it hot than they do to heat it up once, because heat is lost through the walls of the tank in proportion to the tank temperature. The same energy is required to heat up the water regardless of whether it is heating a little bit at a time, or all at once. Heat losses through the tank walls or pipes simply add to the cost. So, turning the water heater off for a few hours each day actually saves some energy. This strategy works best for electric water heaters, because they lose heat less rapidly than gas or oil water heaters.[/FONT]*
> *[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]If you turned your hot water heater off during the day, it would be an inconvenience if you use more hot water than is stored in the tank. Installing a timer that turns the water heater off or that lowers the temperature during the night generally poses no inconvenience at all. These timers can be set to turn the heater back on an hour or so before you get up in the morning, so your hot shower is ready to go when you are.[/FONT]*



http://hes.lbl.gov/hes/answerdesk_dat.html#wh3



> *3. It's wisest to leave your immersion heater on 24 hours a day*
> 
> *MYTH*
> 
> This one is easy. It is always best to place the water heating on a timer, as the energy lost from a hot water tank depends on the temperature difference between the surface of the tank and its surroundings. It's a common myth that it somehow takes more energy to keep heating up a tank than to maintain it at a high temperature.
> 
> Of course, as with all the urban myths on this page, there are a few "ifs" and "buts". If the tank is highly insulated (so standing losses are very low) and there is an effective thermostat on the tank, then the losses through leaving it on can be much reduced. And some people have a need for large quantities of hot water all day long, in which case they may have no alternative to leaving the immersion heater on. But in general, it is much better to install a timer - a heavy duty one, suitable for immersion heaters, should cost less than £20 and if you can fit it yourself safely, could pay for itself in a few months: an excellent energy efficiency investment.



[broken link removed]


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## Mr2

"should cost less than £20 and if you can fit it yourself safely, could pay for itself in a few months: an excellent energy efficiency investment"

We'll have to agree to dis-agree because if from the savings over a few months is only around 20 quid, the difference is tiny.

All I can say from my personal experience on my ESB bill is the difference is so little I can't see it and of course you can't actually say from your experience because you don't have any in this area. You don't have only one energy source.


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## aircobra19

I have experience in using an immersion and how long it takes to heat up a sink/bath/shower. Who doesn't in fairness. IMO its common sense that it uses more energy to leave something on for a lot longer. If nothing else your losing more heat than you would if you have it on for less. But yes I've never worked out why using electricity for longer (leaving an immersion on 24/7) isn't cheaper than having it on less. rob30 said it does make a difference. Maybe you guys simply use a lot more hot water and more frequently through the 24hrs. Whereas others only use it at specific times, and very little outside those times.


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## KalEl

aircobra19 said:


> I have experience in using an immersion and how long it takes to heat up a sink/bath/shower. Who doesn't in fairness. IMO its common sense that it uses more energy to leave something on for a lot longer. If nothing else your losing more heat than you would if you have it on for less. But yes I've never worked out why using electricity for longer (leaving an immersion on 24/7) isn't cheaper than having it on less. rob30 said it does make a difference. Maybe you guys simply use a lot more hot water and more frequently through the 24hrs. Whereas others only use it at specific times, and very little outside those times.


 
I think you're oversimplifying things...it it not a case of the immersion being "on" or "off". Vastly different amounts of electricity are consumed depending on how you use it.
If I can have my immersion on between 4am and 6.30 am and still have a hot shower 22 hours later it suggests not much heat escapes from the tank. Obviously it takes a lot of electricity to heat the tank in the morning from cold. Now imagine it was already hot...all that's required is enough to maintain the heat.
I'd say it's borderline stuff as to which is the cheaper approach. But there is no way that heating water with an immersion as you go is the cheapest...I'd wager it's the most expensive because I know. My timer broke once and my bill went throught the roof.


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## aircobra19

Yeah maybe. No ones posting links to prove their case either way.  22hrs wow. I know ours stays hot a long time, I doubt it would last 22 hrs and still be hot though.


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## KalEl

aircobra19 said:


> Yeah maybe. No ones posting links to prove their case either way.  22hrs wow. I know ours stays hot a long time, I doubt it would last 22 hrs and still be hot though.


 
Yeah, the tank seems to be really good in that you get the same amount of stuff done over the day regardless of the time.
Going back to the original query though I'm certain it's heating that's the problem. A few of my neighbours were using their storage heaters incorrectly until I sorted it for them...plus the electric radiators in the bedrooms murder the juice.


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## Thrifty1

I dont have links to prove it, my proof is ESB bills, i have used the immersion both ways with no real difference to cost.

I never had to use the electric rads upstairs so i couldnt comment on how much electricity they use, the storage heater in hall gives out enough heat for upstairs, thank God !


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## Ceist Beag

Thrifty1 et al, I really can't believe how an immersion would take 2 hours to heat a sinkful of water - as Aircobra said something is wrong there. I don't want to ask a stupid question as you seem to know what you're talking about here but to me your timeframes sound more like the regular water heater performance rather than the immersion. Whether you choose to believer Aircobra or not I agree with him/her that 10 minutes is plenty to heat a sinkful of water - we get the same performance from our immersion. I'd like to hear a qualified professional's opinion on this but to my mind leaving an immersion on all the time sounds mad!


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## Mr2

Ceist Beag, where did you read that anyone said it took 2 hrs to heat a sink full of water?

As far as I can see, we all stated that it will take longer than 10 mins to do so, but nobody put a time limit on it.


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## aircobra19

Thrifty1 said:


> ....The imersion will take much longer to heat even a sinkful of water, usually about 2 hours....



I thought that can't be right myself.


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## Guest127

you can install a small immersion heater. I think it's called a Willis heater but in this house its nicknamed the 'Willy heater' . it sits below the main immersion and it's very very fast to heat a sinkful of water. its also very very sore on electricity, however if you only need a sinkful its brilliant. just remember to turn it off. we have a seperate switch for it with a large red led indicator on it. 
no benefit to the poster unfortunately but I posted before and its still holds true. changed my central heating system to a pressure one from gravity feed and never looked back. hardly need the immersion now at all. still using the same amount of oil but my esb bills are still cheaper than 3 years ago. I appreciate there are other factors (kids coming and going, warmer weather etc) but I reckon I have made back the inital cost - around €1100 in savings over the 3/4 years.


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## mo3art

Just to add that if you have a gas or oil heating system and you don't use your heating in the summer it's more economic to switch over your valves in the summer so the rads don't work but the boiler is still heated.  Maybe something to consider?


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## rkray

According to a friend of mine at the ESB, the chances of the meter being broken are pretty low. Unfortunately it is far more likely to be due to some recent change in behaviour. 

Recently we acquired an Electrisave monitor (www.electrisave.ie) which we have found to be wonderful in identifying when we have left something on (e.g. an immersion). When we first installed it a few months ago, we found that some member of our very forgetful family had almost always left something big switched on and the reading was regularily running at over 50 cents per hour.

Now that we have the information, we can instantly do something to switch it off.  



Ronnie Kav


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## FintanPhelan

What you can do as a quick check is turn everything off except fridge maybe and see how fast the meter is going, if it's going fast you have a problem, if it's going slow turn stuff back on one at a time and see what makes a big difference.


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## ClubMan

And/or flick the master switch on the switch/fuse board and see if the meter stops altogether. If not then you have a problem.


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## Ross_K

rkray said:


> According to a friend of mine at the ESB, the chances of the meter being broken are pretty low. Unfortunately it is far more likely to be due to some recent change in behaviour.
> 
> Recently we acquired an Electrisave monitor ([broken link removed]) which we have found to be wonderful in identifying when we have left something on (e.g. an immersion). When we first installed it a few months ago, we found that some member of our very forgetful family had almost always left something big switched on and the reading was regularily running at over 50 cents per hour.
> 
> Now that we have the information, we can instantly do something to switch it off.
> 
> 
> 
> Ronnie Kav



On the subject of the Electrisave meter and saving money in general, the link you provide lists the cost from the supplier in Limerick as €115. The same item can be bought on ebay for £59 (€87-ish) including postage to Ireland...


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## JacquesD'Lad

I have read with interest the above posts, which have a great deal of relevance to me, as follows:
1. I have extraordinarily high ESB bills. My first bill when I moved into the house 3 years ago was Eu564; I am now expecting another one for Eu430.
2.I had a Grasslin QE7 immersion heater which blew up and started a mini-fire 2 nights ago. Luckily the circuit breaker operated and prevented further damage. GE have already replaced the immersion; they are replacing all these sold in the last few years. But I'm not sure this is to blame for the cost - maybe? I certainly hope the bills plummet now.
I have whole-house electric heating. 3 no combi storage heaters on the ground floor (2no. 3.4kW, the other is 1.7kW), and the rest being electric panel heaters. I actually did turn off all the appliances one-by-one until finding which one was eating the electricity. It turns out that the storage heaters are to blame. The meter wheel spins around at an extremely fast rate when only the storage heaters/boosters are on, and at a rate whereby the ESB bill is in accordance. I agree with KalEI that the electric heating is going to consume a lot, but I still can't believe it should be this much! Storage heating is mean't to be economical isn't it? Thrifty01, what size are your storage heaters? Are they combi? ie. is there a fan heater combined in the same unit? I would be interested to compare heating costs.
Thanks in advance for all help and advice submitted.


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## ClubMan

JacquesD'Lad said:


> It turns out that the storage heaters are to blame. The meter wheel spins around at an extremely fast rate when only the storage heaters/boosters are on


On which meter - night or day? Normally the boost simple opens a vent to release more heat stored in the storage heater bricks and, as such, does not use any electricity at the time (they are heated up at night on the night rate). Are you sure that the boost is not a convection heater running off peak rate units? What make and model are the storage heaters? Are you sure that your storage heaters and immersion are actually running off night rate units and not peak units.


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## JacquesD'Lad

Yes, I mean by the boost the convection heater. Apologies. Both the convector (as I recall) and the storage heater (definitely) run off the night rate meter. This is borne out in the actual bill reading, which lists the night rate (and massive cost), and by simply checking the night meter in operation - I checked this at night, after 11.30pm. The bill would have been even more outlandish if the peak rate was operable. They are Credo combi storage heaters. I understand Credo is no longer producing same (nor even in business?)


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## Sal92

There is definitely something wrong with your storage heaters I think. I have 2 storage heaters, one combi. 1 is on most days, the other is only on very cold nights. They definitely run off the night rate. 1 panel heater on for a hour or so at night. I do use the convector on the combi a good bit.My highest bill has been €150. Yours is deffo too high!!


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## ClubMan

JacquesD'Lad said:


> Yes, I mean by the boost the convection heater.


But you originally said "no combi storage heaters" which I assumed meant storage only with no combined convection. Which is it?


JacquesD'Lad said:


> 3 no combi storage heaters on the ground floor (2no. 3.4kW, the other is 1.7kW), and the rest being electric panel heaters.





> Both the convector (as I recall) and the storage heater (definitely) run off the night rate meter.


The convection heater built into a storage heater will run off whatever meter is active - this means the night meter between 2300-0800 winter and 0000-0900 summer (or something like that) or the day/peak rate meter if switched on any other time. You really want to minimise the use of the convection heaters if at all possible by adjusting the storage heating so that it supplies the bulk if not all of the background heating required. If you use the convection heater part of the storage heaters and/or the panel heaters on peak rate then that will certainly rack up the costs. If your night rate billing is high then are you sure that the storage heater thermostats are adjusted so that they are not using too much electricity; your immersion is only coming on c. 0400-0800 or 0500-0900 and its thermostat is correct etc. It certainly sounds like something is wrong. Unless it's simply a case of the heating system being insufficient for the living space and thus burning units at a crazy rate or something?

You really need to analyse things more systematically to identify where and when the units are being used.


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## JacquesD'Lad

ClubMan said:


> But you originally said "no combi storage heaters" which I assumed meant storage only with no combined convection. Which is it?



They are combi storage heaters. I meant '3 no.' combi as in 3 'number'! Sorry, excuse my jargon-speak...



ClubMan said:


> If your night rate billing is high then are you sure that the storage heater thermostats are adjusted so that they are not using too much electricity. It certainly sounds like something is wrong.



I think it has to be something like this. So is it the thermostat that regulates the electrical consumption, assuming all else is satisfactory? I have the input/output dials set for maximum efficiency, but even if not, the bill shouldn't be this high. The rooms in question are quite small and don't need an excessive amount of heat.


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## ClubMan

JacquesD'Lad said:


> So is it the thermostat that regulates the electrical consumption, assuming all else is satisfactory?


There should be a master thermostat which, along with the input dial, regulates the charging overnight. You might need to check that the night meter is kicking in at the correct time just in case your storage heaters are somehow charging on peak rate units. There should also be room themostats which control how the storage heater boost output (*NOT *the convection heater part) operates. The convection heaters should have their own built-in thermostats which control the duty cycle while switched on.


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## JacquesD'Lad

Sal92 said:


> There is definitely something wrong with your storage heaters I think. I have 2 storage heaters, one combi. 1 is on most days, the other is only on very cold nights. They definitely run off the night rate. 1 panel heater on for a hour or so at night. I do use the convector on the combi a good bit.My highest bill has been €150. Yours is deffo too high!!


I rarely use the convector, yet my bill is much higher than that! 
What is the size (kW) of your storage heater? That makes a massive difference. You can find out by way of the dimensions. The dimensions for a 3.4kW are approx. 1100mm wide x 750mm high. A 1.7kW is only half that width, something like 550mm. Whereas a 2.5kW is square, same height/width. 
[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan

JacquesD'Lad said:


> What is the size (kW) of your storage heater? That makes a massive difference. You can find out by way of the dimensions.


That is incorrect. The dimensions of a storage heater have no bearing on the kW rating. What matters are the specifications of the specific make and model used. I'll check ours again later and point you at my 10 year summary spreadsheet (which may be linked earlier but needs to be updated) in case that is of any use to you in terms of gauging indicative costs.

Update: here you go. I think our two heaters have two 750W storage elements each so are 1.5kW rated.


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## JacquesD'Lad

ClubMan said:


> That is incorrect. The dimensions of a storage heater have no bearing on the kW rating. What matters are the specifications of the specific make and model used.



The website reference I gave earlier appears to equate the size with the electrical load. See the following: [broken link removed]
Is the master thermostat you speak of located within the heater itself? The electrician who was out today replacing the immersion had a look at the fuse board and said there is a stat (devi-stat?) in the fuseboard amongst the breakers for the storage heaters, which I am told is very unusual. Is this a master thermostat?
If the night meter is not kicking in at the correct time, isn't the ESB responsible for that? the night-time meter wheel certainly operates at the correct time, but is the meter-wheel to be believed?


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## ClubMan

JacquesD'Lad said:


> The website reference I gave earlier appears to equate the size with the electrical load. See the following: [broken link removed]


Not sure what you mean but in general the _kW _rating and the physical size of a storage heater are not directly related. What matters is the rating of the element(s) inside. You could have a large heater with a lower kW rating that a smaller one. And you were answering another poster without any obvious indication that they necessarily had the same make of storage heater as you. 


> Is the master thermostat you speak of located within the heater itself?


I was referring to the master storage heating thermostat which is often in the hall and which controls overnight charging of the heaters. Then each room with a storage heater will have its own thermostat for the storage heater boost. The heater itself may then contain a thermostat controlling the convection part. _ESB _have information about common storage heater setups using these thermostats.


> The electrician who was out today replacing the immersion had a look at the fuse board and said there is a stat (devi-stat?) in the fuseboard amongst the breakers for the storage heaters, which I am told is very unusual. Is this a master thermostat?


Maybe he was referring to a thermostat and maybe this is where your master night charging thermostat lives. I don't know.


> If the night meter is not kicking in at the correct time, isn't the ESB responsible for that?


Yes. But you need to see if this is the case.


> the night-time meter wheel certainly operates at the correct time, but is the meter-wheel to be believed?


Normally but maybe you should get the _ESB _out to check your meters in case there is some fault? Your bill seems crazy to me.

By the way - checked this evening and our storage heaters actually have 2 x 850W elements so are 1.7kW rated overall.


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## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> That is incorrect. The dimensions of a storage heater have no bearing on the kW rating. What matters are the specifications of the specific make and model used. I'll check ours again later and point you at my 10 year summary spreadsheet (which may be linked earlier but needs to be updated) in case that is of any use to you in terms of gauging indicative costs.
> 
> Update: here you go. I think our two heaters have two 750W storage elements each so are 1.5kW rated.


I've updated that spreadsheet (ignore the glitches such as if the € symbol does not display).


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## Gondola

Clubman,

I had a good look at your ESB Bill Spreadsheet. It looks neat and easy to analyse. What do I do if I want to maintain a spreadsheet like that for my house? Is it an excel spreadsheet?
Thanks!


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## ClubMan

Thanks. Yes - it's a very simple _Excel_ (actually it's originally an _OpenOffice _spreadsheet) spreadsheet; two columns - bill date and amount; then I just used the chart wizard to create the graph; the published version is just a version saved as _HTML_. Obviously you could do this for any household utility bill (or even have a single workbook with different sheets for each bill).


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## aircobra19

What do we think of the monthly equaliser payment method? I prefer to manage it myself.


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## z104

2 people living in 3 Bed house,  use electric oven/hob, electric shower, usual fridge freezer/electric kettle.  Bi monthly bill is apprx: 100 euro or 50 euro per month.

Turn off lights when not in a room, plug out plugs like tv/radio at night.

Sounds very high for a 2 bed apartment. I would think there is someting drawing your electricity or is it possible the apartemnt next door has hooked up to your supply. I would call ESB.


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## ClubMan

aircobra19 said:


> What do we think of the monthly equaliser payment method? I prefer to manage it myself.


Me too. I would imagine that equaliser might be handy for somebody who cannot easily deal with monthly cashflow fluctuations.


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## ClubMan

Niallers said:


> 2 people living in 3 Bed house,  use electric oven/hob, electric shower, usual fridge freezer/electric kettle.  Bi monthly bill is apprx: 100 euro or 50 euro per month.


But are you on _Nightsaver _and do you use electric storage and/or convection heating?


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## Sideview

Hi,
Thanks to everyone for all the information on heating bills especially Clubman.
Can I ask Clubman if you have a 3 bed house, but are only using 2 storage heaters, how do you heat other rooms?
Also, I am in the process of buying an apartment and just found out heating is all electrical. Would people consider Electric heating a deal breaker if they were moving to a new place?


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## ClubMan

Sideview said:


> Can I ask Clubman if you have a 3 bed house, but are only using 2 storage heaters, how do you heat other rooms?


The two storage heaters are sufficient to provider background heating to the whole house. The downstairs is effectively open plan with the stairs off the living rooms so the heat rises to the upstairs. Downstairs remains warmer but the upstairs also benefits from the storage heating. On the rare occasion that we need a boost we use a freestanding oil filled electric heater. We never use the convection heaters (built into the storage heaters or panel ones upstairs). The house is _Goldshield _insulated so retains the heat very well (dry lined external walls, double glazed, goot attic insulation etc.).


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## mo3art

As I've mentioned before, the monthly "equalizer" payment is not actually equalized over the year.  It is however adjusted on a quarterly basis for your usage for the previous quarter.  So therefore you never reach a set monthly amount that is consistently the same per year.  What happens in reality is that you pay more over the summer & less over the winter would you believe?

If you have a choice I would recommend managing the bimonthly bills yourself and not signing up to the equalizer.


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## Calico

Just an update - despite sending in meter readings every few months it seems I can't keep up with the way ESB charge....

Got whacked for another 250 euros today!

I really wish they would make sure to read meters themslelves regularly or get their estimates right!


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## ClubMan

Calico said:


> Just an update - despite sending in meter readings every few months it seems I can't keep up with the way ESB charge....


What do you mean? If you have used the units then (barring a meter fault - rare but possible) then you have to pay for them. What is your usage profile? €250 for a two monthly billing period at this time of the year sounds quite possible for a home with storage heating for example. I've updated my own records with a slightly more complex analysis here.


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## Thirsty

I use the equaliser method for both gas and electricity and have done for the last 15 years; simply so I can just forget about it. 

I've had very few issues with it; but in the last two months my ESB debit has increased from €51 per month to €102 per month this increase was caused by grossly over-estimated bills.  The customer service insist they cannot reduce the amount to be debited so I've cancelled it.  When I finally use the electricity I've paid in advance for I'll see about reinstating it.

I've no problem with estimating bills - but how in heavens name did they imagine my usage would double just like that?


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## Calico

Of course I have to pay, but is it too much to ask to be billed for the electricity that you use AS you use it?

The system they have of estimating bills is inaccurate as borne out by my and others experiences.


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## ClubMan

Calico said:


> Of course I have to pay, but is it too much to ask to be billed for the electricity that you use AS you use it?
> 
> The system they have of estimating bills is inaccurate as borne out by my and others experiences.


Yes - estimated bills are a bit of a pain but I don't understand what you mean by "not being able to keep up with the ESB charge" when logging actual readings to correct estimate bills that are out of line with reality?


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## briancbyrne

paulfree said:


> Switch absolutely everything off and then check the little wheel in the meter,if it is turning,some one else is using your electric,if not u need to cut back,the immersion is like boiling the kettle for 2 hours,very expensive.


 

I was in a similar situation to you a couple of years back and did the above - it turned out that the apartment common lighted areas etc were hooked up to our meter!! - it def sounds like theres something wrong there!


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## ClubMan

Did you get that rectified? You should be onto your management company about this and maybe looking for a backdated refund of charges!


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## Marathon Man

Calico, you have something *seriously* wrong.  Before you do anything check the meter and write down the reading.  Check it say 1 hour later and write down the reading again and the time.  Then check the difference between the readings, for your hourly rate of use.

Then turn off and/or plug out *EVERYTHING* in apartment, including the cooker, fridge (it won't cool down much' if you don't open it) clock-radio, TV, computer, immersion etc (btw TVs, DVDs, computers may be on standby and draw power, even if turned off - Plug them all out!!) Check you meter, write down the reading and time.  
Your meter should be stopped.  Dead. Not moving. 

If it isn't check everything again until you're sure that there is NOTHING left on.  If the meter is still going then either you've got some hidden item drawing power or another user is hooked up to your meter.  

On the other hand if the original 1 hour check shows a very high difference, then you may have something eating electricity, e.g. dual immersions can do that if the thermostat is kaput, or if the bath selection is on.  Switching things on/off one by one can help suss out the culprit.

You can also use [broken link removed] from Maplins.  Do all the plugging out still though.


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## eileen alana

I had a problem with unusually high electricity bills over the course of 4 months last year and they were proper readings. I found the cause to be a faulty fridge freezer that was icing over within days of it being defrosted. I got rid of the offending appliance and purchased a new one and the bills returned to normal.


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## rokz

Well u thing thats big...u want my bill...?€1200 for the last and this morning i got a surprise €750.....Phoned esb up and we did a check..switch of electricity of at the mains and c if the dial is still moving....Yes it was..backwards.Wot do i do now..?.Even though its going backwards ...is this grounds for a refund..?


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## Susanna

Something definitely wrong....My bill is 190 and I have the washing machine on all the time washing kids clothes and tumble dry everything. 4 bed detached. Someone must be rigged into your electricity meter.


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## is200

hi, I got a big esb bill this week, just found this discussion and would like to ask if anyone has had an experience like mine that they actually got to the bottom of?
I have been renting a three bed house with my girlfriend since feb 08, the first few esb bills seemed normal but the latest one is for €625!! we use all the usual stuff tv,wm,tumble dryer ect. and the emersion {emersion 60 - 90 mins a day} my problem is that {as far as i can see} our electricity consumption has'nt really changed since we moved in. ie. our bills - jun08 = €171, aug08 = €178, oct08 = €212, dec08 = €266, mar09 = €625. our meter is read for every second bill so it's not a case of being underestimated for a long period of time. I have spoken to the esb and they say my meter reading = €625. I checked the meter by turning everything off and the disc did stop turning. any suggestions welcome


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## tina4

Hi all, iv read this post with great interest. I acually posted on another thread about my esb bill. Our bills (everyone in complex) have been high since we moved in 5 years ago. But my last bill was 798e the same bill last year was 460e. The bills seem to have been going up over the last year, but the last 2 have realy jumped. 3 bed house in apartment complex, 6 in house. All electric, and those bloody storage heaters x 3 ( i hate them) never use boost. We never use the panel heaters in bedrooms even tho rooms are freezing!!! water is timed to come at 4am and off at 7am, never boosted or topped up. Have a dryer that is used maybe 4 times a month.
Dishwasher and washing machine on at night and maybe twice a week in the day. 
I think i am using the storage heaters right ( never got manual)
but just to be sure can someone explain in very simple terms on the right way to use storage heaters.


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## Fnergg

tina4 said:


> Hi all, iv read this post with great interest. I acually posted on another thread about my esb bill. Our bills (everyone in complex) have been high since we moved in 5 years ago. But my last bill was 798e the same bill last year was 460e. The bills seem to have been going up over the last year, but the last 2 have realy jumped. 3 bed house in apartment complex, 6 in house. All electric, and those bloody storage heaters x 3 ( i hate them) never use boost. We never use the panel heaters in bedrooms even tho rooms are freezing!!! water is timed to come at 4am and off at 7am, never boosted or topped up. Have a dryer that is used maybe 4 times a month.
> Dishwasher and washing machine on at night and maybe twice a week in the day.
> I think i am using the storage heaters right ( never got manual)
> but just to be sure can someone explain in very simple terms on the right way to use storage heaters.



This link might be helpful in relation to the use of storage heaters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater

See also some of my previous posts in relation to high bills. Again, any previous estimated bills in the last few ones you got? How many days in the present bill? (Normally the billing period is 60 odd days but some winter bills can be 70+). Factor in also the fact the prices went up 17% in August and that we have just been through the coldest winter in years resulting in higher usage than normal for most customers. 

I wonder about heating the water for three hours. Surely, one should be more than enough?    

Regards,

Fnergg


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## tina4

Thanks Fnergg, as always a great help.
Must compare the amount of days on bill. Iv never had an
estimated bill. Im going to reduce the timer to 1 hour for water and see how it goes.
Thanks again.


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## paddyk

hi,
Just found this forum and was hoping someone could help.My esb bill is usually around 55 euro's but this one is 96 euro's. The only difference in usage for last 2 months is that i now use a desktop instead of a laptop(never used battery just plugged it in).

Would a desktop really use up that much electricity? I would really appreciate any responses.


Thanks
Paddyk


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## Leo

paddyk said:


> Would a desktop really use up that much electricity? I would really appreciate any responses.


 
While a desktop might use in the region of three times that of a laptop, it's very unlikely to more than double your overall electricity usage! 

That €41 increase is around 240kWh! Were you getting estimated bills?
Leo


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## paddyk

they weren't estimated bills.


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## AlbacoreA

I think people have to realise that we've had the coldest winter for decades. I've certainly not seen temps as low and for as long as this winter. Apart from everything needing to be heated for longer than normal, we've all been indoors for longer than usual, so your using everything more than usual. 

But allowing for that there can always be something thats drawing more electricity than normal. So the check to see whats causing it is a great suggestion.


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## asmccart

That is definately wrong, storage heaters are really inefficient but it sound like someone else is using your energy


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