# Have first property for rental - how do I start?



## sinbadfury (16 Feb 2007)

I am moving house, and keeping my apartment in Dublin and renting it out.

I would prefer to control things myself (removing esate agent fees, charges, better control on whoI let to, etc)

Where do I start and how do I get it up and running

Hope ye can help!


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## sandymount (16 Feb 2007)

You can rent it out yourself on www.daft.ie


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## sinbadfury (16 Feb 2007)

with regard to say Sky Digital and broadband etc.

Would it be in my best interests to keep these running and charge extra in rent or get the tenent to put these things in their name if they require them?


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## Dreamerb (16 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> with regard to say Sky Digital and broadband etc.
> 
> Would it be in my best interests to keep these running and charge extra in rent or get the tenent to put these things in their name if they require them?


I second the recommendation for daft.ie [no connection, just found it really easy to let my own investment place]. 

On TV and broadband, I generally wouldn't provide them - the tenant may not want them anyway, and may not feel they're worth a rental premium. That said, it might be worth leaving the connection live until you're letting and consult your prospective tenant on their preferences; if they do want the services, you should be able to offset the cost to you against your rental income for tax purposes, so you may be able to provide them for a below-market rate (for which you'll get grateful and loyal tenants - always a good thing, IMO), or simply reap the benefits of the offset. 

Do remember you'll have to register with the PRTB, and there will be the occasional headache when the heating doesn't work, or the tap leaks, and so on, and make sure your rental account always has enough in it to cover a payment or two if the rent is late, or the place is unoccupied, etc. And check if you're liable for stamp duty clawback, and to sort out your TRS - sometimes these things can make what looked like a sensible investment strategy look a great deal less attractive!


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## bacchus (16 Feb 2007)

when did you buy the appartment you are going to rent? they may be tax implications  as part of your "get it up and running" process


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

Dreamerb said:


> And check if you're liable for stamp duty clawback, and to sort out your TRS - sometimes these things can make what looked like a sensible investment strategy look a great deal less attractive!



What is TRS, and also, when does this clawback arise? We bought as a first time buyer about 3 years ago.


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## ClubMan (19 Feb 2007)

_TRS _means tax relief at source generally but is usually used specifically to refer to [broken link removed].


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## Dreamerb (19 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> What is TRS, and also, when does this clawback arise? We bought as a first time buyer about 3 years ago.


 
TRS - what ClubMan said. You've probably been getting it as a deduction from your mortgage payment.

Stamp duty clawback arises if you commence renting out a propoerty you bought as an FTB within five years of purchase - that is, if you rent it out, you'll be liable to pay to Revenue the amount you would have paid in stamp duty when you purchased, had you not been an FTB (as an FTB you will have benefitted from either an exemption or a reduced rate). Since you bought only three years ago, and assuming you paid more than €127k for the property, you will have to pay stamp duty on it.

The stamp duty brackets for non-FTBs are as follows:
€0 - €127 k : 0%
€127,001 - €190,500 : 3%
€190,501 - €254,000 : 4%
€254,001 - €317,500 : 5%
€317,501 - €381,000 : 6%
€381,001 - €635,000 : 7.5%
>€635,001 : 9%


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

4% it is then.
God they really do have their hand in every pocket! This govt seems to begrudge anyone trying to impove their life!

When does that need to be paid, end of year with personal return, as soon as you move out?


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## bacchus (19 Feb 2007)

payable on the date that rent is first received from the property


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## ClubMan (19 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> 4% it is then.
> God they really do have their hand in every pocket! This govt seems to begrudge anyone trying to impove their life!


Alternatively they don't like people attempting to avoid investor rates of _SD _by initially buying as an owner occupier but then renting the property out?


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

That can be big enough sum...circa 10k....maybe I'd be jsut better off selling up the lot and leaving the country...too many fingers in your pie in Ireland.

Thanks for the details


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Alternatively they don't like people attempting to avoid investor rates of _SD _by initially buying as an owner occupier but then renting the property out?



It was not our intention. Our finances have improved faster than we ever thought and we are in the process of leaving the capital for good. Just a bit of a waste to let the apartment go if we can hang onto it during the transition. But by the looks of this, I would rather leave the capital and Ireland, there has to be better economies to live under than this


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## bearishbull (19 Feb 2007)

Maybe you should sell. According to DAFT report Apartment asking prices have been falling for last 7months. Theres massive amount of apartments being built every year and oversupply may be an issue for apartments in Dublin city in years to come. How long would you plan on keeping the apartment? how would you feel if it fell in price by a significant amount?Just a thought.


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

But isnt there a shortfall in housing, hence the need for it all?
I would struggle to see a time when there would be a surplus of housing of this type due to oversupply.

I think the govt plan long term is to shift the population from the city centre areas, turn it into a financial centre like NY and London and push everyone out to the commuter belts in high density housing. Looking at the new 'village' type setups, they want people to be self sufficient outside the city boundaries.

In our case though, back to point, currently we are thinking 5 years until a decison was made to keep or drop the apartment


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## Fly (19 Feb 2007)

No  - there's no shortfall in housing.  We've built approx 90,000 per annum for the last couple of years and there are 275,000 vacant according to recent surveys (including census so fairly reliable).  In particular there are a lot of surplus apartments.
As long as the economy is firing on all cylinders and people are keen to move here for work, you can probably get people to rent your apartment, but it's by no means a sure thing that it will go up in value over the next five years (not sure how long you are thinking of holding onto it for), and you're by no means guaranteed to be able to rent it out full time.  I would suggest that there are better places for your money at the moment - a standard savings account could give you a guaranteed 6% with no risk.


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## sinbadfury (19 Feb 2007)

Fly said:


> a standard savings account could give you a guaranteed 6% with no risk.



With bank charges and inflation though that 6% isnt looking as promising I'm guessing. Isnt money in any savings account just throwing itself away over time all factors considered?

This is my first investment property, and I guess I am playing it safe just in case I want to move back in the future.


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## Howitzer (19 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> With bank charges and inflation though that 6% isnt looking as promising I'm guessing. Isnt money in any savings account just throwing itself away over time all factors considered?


 
??? So what rate are you looking to achieve year on year; 10, 15, 20%? There's no pleasing some people. I've a great pyramid scheme going if you're interested, you seem a prime candidate.


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## bacchus (20 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> With bank charges ...


Many financials institutions offer free banking...


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## sinbadfury (20 Feb 2007)

Howitzer said:


> ??? So what rate are you looking to achieve year on year; 10, 15, 20%? There's no pleasing some people. I've a great pyramid scheme going if you're interested, you seem a prime candidate.



Come on now, just because I think that I can possibly get better than a net return of maybe 2% per year on my money, doesnt mean I have my head in the clouds. Money sitting idle is wasted money in my opinion. I dont think comments like that are very helpful


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## sinbadfury (20 Feb 2007)

bacchus said:


> payable on the date that rent is first received from the property



How is this enforced/collected. Do you give a date when you register as landlord, letter in the post, will solicitor want it when drawing up tenancy contracts? Is i up to you to be honest and send a cheque in?

Just from a cashflow point of view while getting started thats all.


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## ClubMan (20 Feb 2007)

The _SD _clawback is basically self assessed/declared. But be aware that _Revenue _may also come looking for it if one does not correctly self assess:

Revenue acts on abuse of stamp duty relief


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## sinbadfury (20 Feb 2007)

OK then, that seems to answer my concerns over my situation. 

Just for the record, I would agree with the revenue in this case, as I can imagine that there is a huge amount of this avoidance happening around dublin in the last 5 years.

I myself, fell into the 'looking for info' category. Now that I have all the facts, I will be adhering to the rules if I decide to keep the apartment. There really is no escape is there.


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## ClubMan (20 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> I can imagine that there is a huge amount of this avoidance happening around dublin in the last 5 years.


Evasion actually. Whether by accident (through ignorance of the rules) or design.


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## TTV (20 Feb 2007)

Maybe the OP follows the Kent Brockman school of thought (couldnt resist)..


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## sinbadfury (20 Feb 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Evasion actually. Whether by accident (through ignorance of the rules) or design.



My bad, thats what I meant.


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## bacchus (20 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> Money sitting idle is wasted money in my opinion.


 
but money badly invested could be much worse as you could loose it all.

It's like people blindly stating that renting is wasted money... What the difference between rent and interest on mortgage?


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## bacchus (20 Feb 2007)

sinbadfury said:


> How is this enforced


 
Many ways.... 
A simple one if that landlord need to register tenancy with PRTB if you want to be able to offset  mortgage interest on rented property.
Another one is that tenant will/may claim tax relief on rent and therefore will notify revenue.


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