# Consumers Association of Ireland lays off all its staff



## Brendan Burgess (20 Jun 2012)

From The[broken link removed]



> The Consumers’ Association of Ireland is seeking Government funding  to save it from extinction after temporarily laying off its staff of  five last week and ceasing publication of its monthly magazine Consumer  Choice, reports the Sunday Times.
> 
> 
> Income at the advocacy group  tumbled after Government funding ceased last year and membership fell  from 5,500 in 2008 to 3,300. The association has written to the  Government to say it cannot continue without intervention.
> ...


Over the past ten years or so, I have suggested to the Association that they cease publishing their monthly magazine.  I simply don't understand why they would need to it monthly. Quarterly would be fine or maybe even twice a year.  I have also suggested that they make the content on their website free to everyone, member or not. I think that the government would be more likely to fund them if they did something useful like that. 

The magazine absorbs all their resources  and they spend very little time on actual consumer campaigns. 

I have just checked out their website and find that they have two campaigns on their Campaigns page. "gift vouchers" from September 2011 and VAt on energy bills from August 2011.  Most of the space is taken up with their logo which is usually a sign that an organisation is more thinking of itself than its stakeholders. 

I have remained a member, out of a sense of duty, but I get no value out of my subscription. With a decline of 40% in membership, it seems that others don't regard it as much value either.

I would agree with the government funding an independent consumer group, but I am not sure  that the CAI is effective enough to deserve it. 

 CAI letter to the government seeking funding. 

Brendan


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## MaryM (22 Jul 2012)

From today's Sunday Business Post:

The Consumers Association of Ireland (CAI) has authorised an €80,000 pension top-up for its chief executive, Dermott Jewell, The Sunday Business Post has learned.

Details of the top-up have emerged as the cash-strapped association holds talks with a number of creditors over debts it has amassed, while also trying to secure a bailout from the taxpayer.

Accounts filed in the Companies Office by the CAI show the organisation's revenue fell to €417,000 in the year to May 2011, down from €703,000 in 2008. It had a deficit of €129,000 by the end of last year. The organisation now has just two employees, including Jewell, down from eight in 2008.
The CAI blamed its financial difficulties on a fall in income from its magazine, Consumer Choice, as well as a failure to secure funding from the Department of Enterprise.

The CAI has traditionally been funded through its own memberships - consumers became members by subscribing to Consumer Choice. The 2011 accounts show that the magazine, which the association recently stopped printing, generated an income of €362,000 last year, some €150,000 more than the €208,000 it cost to produce.

"In those accounts, there was a new requirement to value the premises. It impacted on it, as most of our resources go into production of the magazine," said Jewell when contacted last week.

The accounts also show a sharp rise in pension payments. Pension costs climbed from €38,000 in 2010 to €99,000 in 2011.

Jewell said that the defined benefit pension scheme ran into financial difficulty and that the money was used to bolster the scheme for its members.

"There was a deficit that the association tried to build up. We tried to fill the hole," he said.

The accounts state that some €80,000 in relation to compensation to staff members was accrued. There was just one active member of the scheme and three deferred members.

The CAI's trustees agreed that a lump sum of €80,000 should be paid to compensate Jewell for a proportion of his loss as a result of the pension fund deficit. When contacted last week, Jewell refused to discuss details of his pension top-up. He also declined to disclose his own salary, but said it was below €100,000 at present.

"I am not going to - and never have - declared my salary. It is private and personal. It is nobody's business," he said.

In the four years to 2011, the CAI's accounts show that some €100,000 was claimed on travel and meeting expenses. The CAI said the expenses were for "meetings throughout the year and also staff related, marketing related and European travel to commission meetings, working group and general assemblies of our sister organisations".

The CAI is overseen by a council of ten, which is chaired by Michael Kilcoyne.
The council hit the headlines in 2008 when three board members - Diarmuid MacShane, Mel Gannon and Enid O'Dowd - resigned over concerns about future policy, as well as their inability to access information on the running of the organisation.

"We were asking questions around payments, remuneration and the money people were getting from other board memberships, but our questions weren't being answered. Board members were having to consider Freedom of Information requests to access information. There was a huge level of secrecy with regard to what was going on," said one of the board members, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Since January 2009, CAI council members have contributed 50 per cent of fees received from directorships and representations held on behalf of the association to the CAI.

The 2011 accounts state that the fees Jewell receives in respect of his representation of the CAI on boards are lodged to the CAI.
Jewell is also chair of the board of the Financial Services Ombudsman, and receives €21,600 per year for that position. He was appointed to the post in 2008.

He did not respond to questions from this newspaper relating to the fees he received for this board representation.

In recent weeks, the CAI met jobs minister Richard Bruton in an effort to obtain a cash injection from the taxpayer.

Michael Kilcoyne, who also serves as a member of Mayo County Council, said he was optimistic that the minister would approve a rescue plan. He said the CAI was in talks with companies it owed money to with a view to "putting payment plans in place".


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## Lightning (22 Jul 2012)

MaryM said:


> The Consumers Association of Ireland (CAI) has authorised an €80,000 pension top-up for its chief executive, Dermott Jewell, The Sunday Business Post has learned.
> 
> Details of the top-up have emerged as the cash-strapped association holds talks with a number of creditors over debts it has amassed, while also trying to secure a bailout from the taxpayer.



I find it hard to believe that Richard Bruton would give any money to Jewell, given his actions and the lack of any value that the CAI adds.


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## mercman (22 Jul 2012)

MaryM said:


> "I am not going to - and never have - declared my salary. It is private and personal. It is nobody's business," he said.



With an attitude like that, why or how should the Government make a cash injection into the CAI.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Jul 2012)

mercman said:


> With an attitude like that, why or how should the Government make a cash injection into the CAI.



I am a member and I pay €96 a year for membership. I think I should know what the Chief Executive gets paid. 

I also don't like the idea of his being paid in excess of €100,000 for the performance that he gives.

I too would be shocked if Richard Bruton gave them any money.

Brendan


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## Romulan (22 Jul 2012)

I am a member also and seeing as it is a charity that takes my money, I want to know what he earns.  

His response has made me completely rethink my future support even though I think we need a good consumer association.


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## Time (22 Jul 2012)

Do they not publish annual accounts?


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## jhegarty (22 Jul 2012)

I don't see anything on the webpage to suggest it's anything other than a for profit company that charges for reports.

There is far more content for the consumers of Ireland for free on this site.


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## Romulan (22 Jul 2012)

They do publish accounts each year in the magazine, I'd have to go back and look at the detail to see what it says about salaries.


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## MaryM (22 Jul 2012)

mercman said:


> With an attitude like that, why or how should the Government make a cash injection into the CAI.



That was the line that made me post the article. What about its members? If it were a private business it would be different.


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## Complainer (22 Jul 2012)

I remember thinking about joining the CAI years ago, but there seemed to be no facility to join as a member. You could become a subscriber to the magazine all right, but not a member. It is effectively a private business - one that has latched onto a particular niche, but hasn't performed very well in living memory. I lost all respect for them around 2003 when the then Chairperson (Kilcoyne I think) called on the Govt to compensate Equity SSIA holders who had lost money in normal market falls.


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## Calico (22 Jul 2012)

Two things jumped out to me. The first is the €21,600 that the CEO gets for being on the Financial Services Ombudsman Council. From the article there seems there is a question mark about where that fee goes.

Also, I don't understand why the magazine was stopped when it made €150k profit last year. Seems like a bizarre decision when it's what responsible for the CAI's income.


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## Time (22 Jul 2012)

The CAI is a self appointed body with no actual mandate from the government?


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Jul 2012)

Time said:


> The CAI is a self appointed body with no actual mandate from the government?



No. It's a membership organisation and the whole point of it is that it is independent of government. Its objective is to represent cosumers and so it would be critical of government and business, etc. 



> there seemed to be no facility to join as a member. You could become a subscriber to the magazine all right, but not a member.



That might be the strict legal form because of it's a limited company, but in reality, as with a lot of charities, there is an AGM and you elect the directors. The directors become "members" of the limited company.

If a group of committed consumers decided to get together to reboot the CAI, then they  could join up, join the Council and change it. 

Dermot Jewell is protected by Irish labour laws as an employee and it would be difficult to remove him. The Chairman, Michael Kilcoyne, is a full-time trade union official, so it would be against his nature, to challenge an employee's performance.


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## Calico (22 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That might be the strict legal form because of it's a limited company, but in reality, as with a lot of charities, there is an AGM and you elect the directors. The directors become "members" of the limited company.
> 
> If a group of committed consumers decided to get together to reboot the CAI, then they  could join up, join the Council and change it.



But doesn't the SBP say that a group of directors had to resign because they tried but were unable to change it?



Brendan Burgess said:


> Dermot Jewell is protected by Irish labour laws as an employee and it would be difficult to remove him. The Chairman, Michael Kilcoyne, is a full-time trade union official, so it would be against his nature, to challenge an employee's performance.



If he is a trade union official, in my opinion I don't think was looking after the interests of employees by sanctioning an €80,000 pension top-up for one of them. Also the articles says that the CAI has gone from 8 employees in 2008 to 2, including Jewell, today which would have to raise an eyebrow.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Jul 2012)

> I don't think was looking after the interests of employees by sanctioning an €80,000 pension top-up for one of them.



This gives the appearance that the top-up was just like a bonus.

But, as I understand it, the CAI pension fund changed from a Deferred Benefit scheme to a Defined Contribution scheme.  In principle, this would be good for the CAI as it would remove an unquantifiable liability.  Presumably when employers do this, there is some adjustment made. €80,000 may be a good deal for Jewell or a good deal for the CAI. We just don't have enough information to know.

It appears that Jewell is very well paid for issuing occasional sound bytes. 

I was at the AGM where the directors resigned. If I remember correctly, the board would not report how much Jewell was earning or how much he was earning from directorships.  They were not paid back to the CAI at the time. 

The article suggests that they are now being paid back to the CAI.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Jul 2012)

> The 2011 accounts show that the magazine, which the association recently  stopped printing, generated an income of €362,000 last year, some  €150,000 more than the €208,000 it cost to produce.





> I don't understand why the magazine was stopped when it made €150k  profit last year. Seems like a bizarre decision when it's what  responsible for the CAI's income.



I don't think that the magazine made any profits last year.  It comes out every two months. It had around 4 or 5 staff. It occupied other staff a lot of the time.  

The article assumes that all income is due to the magazine. I don't think that this is so.I am not a member to get the magazine. I suspect that most members support the idea of a consumers' association whether they get a magazine or not.

The magazine was poor, very poor.


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## Calico (23 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> This gives the appearance that the top-up was just like a bonus.
> 
> But, as I understand it, the CAI pension fund changed from a Deferred Benefit scheme to a Defined Contribution scheme.  In principle, this would be good for the CAI as it would remove an unquantifiable liability.  Presumably when employers do this, there is some adjustment made. €80,000 may be a good deal for Jewell or a good deal for the CAI. We just don't have enough information to know.
> 
> ...



You're right, there is not enough info. However, the fact that the organisation, which is now seeking a bailout, probably wasn't helped by paying €80,000 - almost a fifth of its annual income. Hard to know.

About the fees, I read that differently. I understood it to mean that some 50% of fees should be given back, and possibly are in some cases, but there is a question mark as to whether this applies to the €21,600 received from the Financial Services Ombudsman. I guess the accounts would answer this.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Jul 2012)

> I guess the accounts would answer this.



They don't answer it at all. There is very little information in them.


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## Calico (23 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They don't answer it at all. There is very little information in them.



Hmmm, that in itself tells a story. Particularly as the CAI is an organisation that regularly calls for transparency from other bodies. 

I would have thought that the CEO would want the fact that he gives back €10.5k to the Association for the Financial Services Ombudsman representation highlighted in some way. If it is not there, and given how the newspaper article was written, you would have to wonder. It would have been very easy for him to clarify anyway...


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## Complainer (23 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Dermot Jewell is protected by Irish labour laws as an employee and it would be difficult to remove him.


If he's not doing the job that's defined in his contract or elsewhere, it's not that difficult to remove him, once you go through the right process.



Brendan Burgess said:


> The Chairman, Michael Kilcoyne, is a full-time trade union official, so it would be against his nature, to challenge an employee's performance.



I'm pretty sure that if anyone else posted a  post like this, the moderators would be all over it, and rightly so. It really is very poor example for a personal attack like this to come from the site owner. Unless you have direct and fairly extensive personal experience of Michael Kilcoyne, and in-depth knowledge of what he did or didn't do with Jewell, you shouldn't be making comments about what is in his nature, and what is not in his nature.

I'm also wondering about how much direct dealings you have with full-time trade union officials over the past say 5-10 years. Do you know that they get their education in such hotbeds of leftwing thinking as the Smurfit School of Business, U.C.D.? Do you know that several trade unions, including SIPTU where Kilcoyne works train their officials and representatives on 'ethical representation', i.e. deciding when it is right to support a member and when it is wrong to support a member. This is a fairly outrageous slur on an entire profession, and I strongly suspect that it is based on little or no recent experience.


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## smiley (23 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The magazine was poor, very poor.



I subcribed to the magazine from 2001-2003. Back then it had a place in the market.

BUT with the web really took off it became very redundant. 

They put the magazine on the web....hardly very innovative!


Why is there a CAI when we have a National Consumers Association anyway??


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## Time (23 Jul 2012)

CAI is a business not a quango. No one appointed them.


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## Complainer (23 Jul 2012)

smiley said:


> Why is there a CAI when we have a National Consumers Association anyway??





cashier said:


> I honestly thought they were one and the same.  Why are they so many duplicate services in this country, it just seems like one quango after another.


You're thinking about the National Customer Agency. It's not an 'Association' - it is a Government body.

The CAI is an Association. They have no mandate from Govt, and they get no Govt funding. They are a private organisation.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> If he's not doing the job that's defined in his contract or elsewhere, it's not that difficult to remove him, once you go through the right process.



Earlier in the thread, you said


> It is effectively a private business - one that has latched onto a  particular niche, but hasn't performed very well in living memory.


Hi Complainer

Most people would agree with you that the CAI has not performed very well in living memory.   But it would be extremely difficult to remove the Chief Executive. They would have to justify the decision to terminate his employment and the general view that the organization has not performed well would probably not be justification enough, even if "the right process" is gone through. 




> I'm pretty sure that if anyone else posted a  post like this, the moderators would be all over it, and rightly so. It really is very poor example for a personal attack like this to come from the site owner. Unless you have direct and fairly extensive personal experience of Michael Kilcoyne, and in-depth knowledge of what he did or didn't do with Jewell, you shouldn't be making comments about what is in his nature, and what is not in his nature.


Complainer

This is what I actually said


> The Chairman, Michael Kilcoyne, is a full-time trade union official, so  it would be against his nature, to challenge an employee's performance.


I have not said that he did not challenge any employee's performance. I am just saying that it would be against his nature, as a trade-union official,  to do so. 

There are a few possiblilities here


Michael Kilcoyne thinks that Dermot Jewell is doing a great job and deserves a pay rise.
Michael Kilcoyne thinks that Dermot Jewell is not doing a good job and is involved in a performance improvement programme with him
Michael Kilcoyne thinks that Dermot Jewell is not doing a good job and is not doing anything about it.
I do not have an insight into the workings of the CAI's board, so I don't know. But the orientation and training of trade union officials is to defend employees and so Kilcoyne would have to overcome this if he feels that Dermot Jewell is not doing a good job. 





> I'm also wondering about how much direct dealings you have with full-time trade union officials over the past say 5-10 years. Do you know that they get their education in such hotbeds of leftwing thinking as the Smurfit School of Business, U.C.D.? Do you know that several trade unions, including SIPTU where Kilcoyne works train their officials and representatives on 'ethical representation', i.e. deciding when it is right to support a member and when it is wrong to support a member.


I don't really need to go back over the last 5 - 10 years. My aunt was a shop steward in the 70's and without any ethical or other training, she did speak to members who were dossing. 



> This is a fairly outrageous slur on an entire profession, and I strongly suspect that it is based on little or no recent experience.


 I think that most people would agree that it is against the nature of trade union officials to challenge an employee's performance. And I am sure that the training they get counteracts this to some extent. But it's still against their nature.

The headline in the Sunday Business Post was 

*Chief of consumer body gets €80,000 in pension top-up*



Calico said



> If he is a trade union official, in my opinion I don't think was looking  after the interests of employees by sanctioning an €80,000 pension  top-up for one of them.


I hope you noticed that I disagreed with this comment by pointing out that it might have been justified if it extracted the company from a defined benefit liability.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> I lost all respect for them around 2003 when the then Chairperson (Kilcoyne I think) called on the Govt to compensate Equity SSIA holders who had lost money in normal market falls.



I don't remember that one, but I do remember objecting to their campaign to abolish DIRT at an AGM in 2007 as reported here



> Mr Jewell said the CAI would launch a campaign in 2008 to abolish the  20% DIRT tax on savings interest after the levy was described as a tax  on those  unable to afford an SSIA over the past five years.
> 
> Members questioned whether the CAI should be campaigning on taxation but  chairman Michael Kilcoyne said: "We campaign on a whole range of issues  and DIRT is a tax that affects those on low incomes.


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## Complainer (24 Jul 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I have not said that he did not challenge any employee's performance. I am just saying that it would be against his nature, as a trade-union official,  to do so.
> 
> There are a few possiblilities here
> 
> ...


Brendan, your clarification is helpful. I picked up a significant implication in your post that you believed Kilcoyne was not doing his job. I see now that this is not the case.



Brendan Burgess said:


> But the orientation and training of trade union officials is to defend employees and so Kilcoyne would have to overcome this if he feels that Dermot Jewell is not doing a good job.


This comment is inappropriate. You don't have any difficulty in separating your role on AAM from your professional roles. If I or anyone was to have made a general assumption about your activities on AAM given your 'nature' as a recruiter or as an accountant, that would be inappropriate, and I'd imagine that you wouldn't like it.

As I said, I don't know Kilcoyne or Jewell from Adam, so I can only draw my own conclusions from things they have done, or not done.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jul 2012)

*"CAI chief "inflated" online statistics"* - Sunday Times 

An interesting Sunday Times article today. 



> Druing an interview on RTE Radio on July 3rd,  Jewell claimed that the CAI had receive more than 3,000 complain online from Ulster Bank customers.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## Time (29 Jul 2012)

I think the public needs educating to the fact that the CAI is not the place to be complaining to.


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2012)

I see the property in Ranalagh is up for sale as  'residential'. Did the organisation own the bricks and mortar;

[broken link removed]


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> I see the property in Ranalagh is up for sale as  'residential'. Did the organisation own the bricks and mortar;
> [broken link removed]



Yes. They own it.


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## SinKav1 (30 Jul 2012)

Here's the full article:

CAI chief ‘inflated’ online statistics

Dermott Jewell ‘exaggerated’ the number of complaints the consumer body received about Ulster Bank

DERMOTT JEWELL, the chief executive of the Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI), has greatly exaggerated the number of complaints his organisation received about the Ulster Bank systems failure, according to sources within the CAI. The CAI, a registered charity, is struggling to survive and has laid off most of its staff. During an interview with Morning Ireland on RTE Radio on July 3, Jewell claimed the CAI had received more than 3,000 online complaints from Ulster Bank customers. However, sources within the CAI told The Sunday Times the organisation would not normally get that number of complaints in total in a year. The sources said in the first three weeks of July, the CAI received a total of 108 online complaints and not all of them were related to Ulster Bank. In his radio interview, Jewell was asked whether the CAI’s complaints were received via email given that it had only one operational phone. He said they had been received “online”. The CAI has an online form on its website where complaints can be made. “Our online complaints . . . started at hundreds and by close of business yesterday they would just be over 3,000 and that’s quite a significant amount of contributions from consumers who are worried about their bank account,” Jewell said. Following the programme, the figure of 3,000 complaints cited by Jewell was reported by RTE and other media in coverage of the Ulster Bank story. In the following day’s Irish Independent, Jewell was quoted saying the CAI had received 3,200 complaints about Ulster Bank. Verona Hanlon, the manager of consumer protection at the Central Bank of Ireland, emailed Jewell after his Morning Ireland interview seeking further information on the number and type of complaints received. The National Consumer Agency (NCA), a statutory body set up to handle g issues, received a total of 99 complaints about the Ulster Bank problem between June 20 and July 26. While the CAI has one part-time employee working with Jewell, the NCA has eight manning a helpline. The agency deals with an average of 1,074 calls and 111 emails each week. On July 7, Bill Prasifka, the Financial Services Ombudsman, said he had received a “handful” of complaints about Ulster Bank. When The Sunday Times asked Jewell about his claim that the CAI received more than 3,000 complaints, he issued a statement explaining this figure included “estimates” that were “canvassed” from media and industry sources. Jewell said he and the CAI's chairman had a large network of contacts, which included consumers, representative bodies, reliable media and industry sources. He said the CAI had canvassed them and relayed the areas of complaints, the level and estimates of the number of contacts received. The CAI undertook to highlight and act upon this information, he said. [He denied he overstated the level of complaints received. Jewell has blamed a lack of state funding for the CAI’s problems. Last month, he accused Richard Bruton, the minister for jobs, enterprise and innovation, of “completely and inconsiderately” ignoring the CAI. The department’s records show, however, that between 2007 and 2010 the CAI received €230,000 from the state. It said no application for funding had been received from the CAI in 2011 or this year. Last week, it was reported the CAI had made provision for an €80,000 lump sum pension payment for Jewell. However, Michael Kilcoyne, the CAI chairman, said the sum had never been paid. Jewell declined to answer any questions on salary or pension payments from the CAI.


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## Time (30 Jul 2012)

Why should they receive funding from the state?


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## Padraigb (30 Jul 2012)

There might be a case if they were providing a useful service to the public.


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## SinKav1 (30 Jul 2012)

The CAI is planning facilitating a class action against Ulster Bank according to a new press release. 

PRESS RELEASE

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI) UB ‘Class Action’ Initiative

Our CEO reported in the course of a Morning Ireland interview that there were some 3000 + complaints advised to the CAI with regard to Ulster Bank problems & difficulties.

The comment referring specifically to the CAI, in context of our telephone outage, was that most of the CAI complaints were through emailed comment.

However, not referred to were all sources of CAI complaints. The Association has, of necessity and through it’s Chairman and CEO , over years forged a large network of contacts and interaction with consumers and their representatives as well as reliable media, and industry sources that we canvassed and who relayed the level, estimates and area of complaints they were receiving and which the CAI undertook to highlight and act upon. This we are now committing to taking further.

What is of concern to the CAI is that third parties have sought to denigrate the extreme difficulties of consumers of the service of Ulster Bank by suggesting the level of complaint was overstated by the CAI. It was not. It is clear that many consumers affected by the system failure are not direct customers of Ulster Bank but are nonetheless impacted. We are now concerned that the figures are higher than countenanced. In addition, we now have very real concerns that the realities and compensatable faults and responsibilities of the bank, as well as the lack of Central Bank activity, are being actively and maliciously diminished in value by third parties.

Therefore, by way of independently and actively determining that this cannot happen the CAI is today requesting that all consumers, whether they be customers of Ulster Bank or otherwise, advise:

the detail of their loss, their interaction with their bank and the Ulster Bank to date the offer of refund and assistance –current and future- together with compensation offered and/or received-directly by email cai@thecai.ie or send by letter post to 43-44 Chelmsford Road, Ranelagh,Dublin6 in order that the Association can compile a comprehensive file for presentation to the Department of Finance, the Central Bank, the National Consumer Agency, the Irish Bankers Federation and the Ulster Bank and in order that full transparent and definitive understanding of the losses and response to those losses can be determined for further consideration and, where deemed necessary, further action.

We will also upload a template on our website which consumers can simply provide the basic information and, should they wish, make additional relevant comments.

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland will guarantee anonymity and that we will respect the requirements and rights of consumers under data protection requirements.

This will be the first ‘class action’ type initiative undertaken that will, we hope, offer future opportunities for a Group Action procedure to be established in Ireland.

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland will meet with the Ulster Bank at the earliest opportunity to explore how we can assist in bringing this difficult situation to a positive conclusion on behalf of all banking customers affected.


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## serotoninsid (30 Jul 2012)

SinKav1 said:


> The CAI is planning facilitating a class action against Ulster Bank according to a new press release.


They can organise what they like but they should not be supported whilst there is not total transparency.  Until this thread, I knew very little about the CAI.  However, for any NGO or charity, one key fundamental thing in this day and age is transparency.  If he won't disclose what salary he is taking, then nobody should support such an organisation - on that basis alone.


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## Calico (30 Jul 2012)

serotoninsid said:


> They can organise what they like but they should not be supported whilst there is not total transparency.  Until this thread, I knew very little about the CAI.  However, for any NGO or charity, one key fundamental thing in this day and age is transparency.  If he won't disclose what salary he is taking, then nobody should support such an organisation - on that basis alone.



Simply disclosing salary isn't really enough though. All that happens then is that fees/pension payments/perks etc. are all just bumped up to make the remuneration appear less. All of this would need to be looked at in context of the size of the organisation etc. too. It seems the whole charity/NGO sector is badly in need of proper regulation. Something you would think the Consumers Association would support given it regularly calls for transparency in others.

As for a class action against UB, I don't know if the CAI is the best placed organisation to administer this given the report that it greatly exaggerated the complaints it received about the bank.


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2012)

I have moved the discussion of the "class action" to   a separate thread


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## SinKav1 (5 Aug 2012)

From today's Sunday Times:

*Cash-strapped consumer watchdog puts HQ on sale*

FIRST it ran out of money, then it was accused of inflating the number of complaints it receives from the public and now the Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI) is selling its headquarters to raise cash.

The two Victorian houses it operates from in Ranelagh, in Dublin 6, are on the market for €695,000. The headquarters is beside Ranelagh village, which became one of the priciest suburbs during the property boom. In 2007 a neighbouring house sold for €1.35m.

Michael Kilcoyne, the CAI’s chairman, said it decided to sell the building a number of months ago and that leasing it back from new owners was one option under consideration.

“It’s for sale because we see it as an asset that we can convert into cash,” said Kilcoyne.

This is the latest move by the CAI, a registered charity, to survive. It has already laid off most of its staff. Last week The Sunday Times reported how sources at the CAI claimed Dermott Jewell, the chief executive, had exaggerated the number of complaints his organisation received about the Ulster Bank systems failure.

Jewell claimed on RTE Radio on July 3 that the CAI had received more than 3,000 online complaints from Ulster Bank customers. Bill Prasifka, the financial ombudsman, told RTE on Friday his office received 150.

In 2008, three directors of the CAI resigned in protest at what they said was a lack of internal transparency about the charity’s finances.

Enid O’Dowd, a chartered accountant and one of those who resigned, said even though she sat on its finance committee she had found it difficult to obtain information about expenses.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Aug 2012)

They are on the market at €695k. 

Thre are bank loans secured on these premises of €478k, as of May 2011. The loans may have been reduced since.

If they get their asking price, they will get cash of around €200k.

The premises are in the accounts at €820k, so if they are sold for €695k, they will have to reduce their reserves by around €100k. 

The reserves as of May 2011 were €150k, and these have presumably reduced since then.  

So they must be close to insolvency which must be a worry for the directors.


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## AlbacoreA (5 Aug 2012)

Why the heck did they need properties in such expensive area's?


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Aug 2012)

They used to rent offices on Upper Mount Street and thought it would be a good idea to own their own HQ.

It looked like a good idea for a few years, as property prices and rent increased. 

But you are right, they could have just as easily bought a property for half the price somewhere else. 

Brendan


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## Calico (6 Aug 2012)

If the report about the CEO of the CAI fabricating complaints is true, you would have to wonder how on earth they will ever be taken seriously again. 

All the more ironic given that the CAI regularly accuses other organisations of misleading consumers, and its CEO is on the Board of the Financial Services Ombudsman.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Aug 2012)

The Consumers' Association of Ireland says it has been inundated with  complaints in the past week from concerned parents who have used the  school book online retailer schoolbooks.ie.


It is strange that the CAI is now getting so many complaints since its decision to stop publishing the magazine and let go all their staff.

3,000 complaints from UB customers
and now
"inundated"  with complaints about schoolbooks.ie


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## jhegarty (18 Aug 2012)

I guess if you have no staff then 2  complaints will have you inundated.


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## BudgetBrenda (9 Sep 2012)

I used to be a member. In recent times they've had their AGM on a thursday lunchtime in central Dublin. Not exactly easy for members to attend if they're (a) not in Dublin and (b) they dont work in the centre of Dublin.  That sent out the message to me that they dont want people coming. if they did they would hold it at the weekend. And I didn't like not getting information on salaries in the accounts, only a total figure which tells you nothing.  they of all people should be open and transparent.  The quote from CEO Jewell about his salary being under €100,000 when he was asked, i took to mean it used to be much more, when times were better.  Why should the CEO of a small organisation with about 6/7  staff that basically only produces a magazine earn a six figure salary? What qualifications does this fellow have.  I finally left when I read in the Times about THREE directors going as they couldn't get fnancial and other information. Shocking.


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## Lightning (21 Oct 2012)

According to the Sunday Times, the National Consumer Agency has written to the Consumer Association of Ireland complaining that members are unable to cancel their direct debits with the CAI. 

According to the article, the CAI is ignoring/delaying requests to cancel members 96 EUR per year subscriptions. The CAI has lost a significant number of members in recent months.

Meanwhile, the CAI phones are 'down'/have been disconnected.


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## Lightning (21 Oct 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They are on the market at €695k.



The asking price has recently [broken link removed]. The property has still not sold.


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## Calico (21 Oct 2012)

The NCA investigating the CAI is ironic to say the least.


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## Time (21 Oct 2012)

The CAI have been hoist by their own petard.


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## SinKav1 (23 Oct 2012)

Here is the article that CiaranT is referring to...

*CAI accused in subscription row*

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI), which has railed against shoddy service for the past 46 years, has been asked to explain why members are experiencing long delays when seeking to cancel membership, which costs €96 a year, _writes Niall Brady._

John Shine, director of commercial practices at the National Consumer Agency, a statutory body set up to tackle consumer issues, wrote to the CAI in the past two weeks following complaints by members frustrated by the association’s failure to cancel their membership, which is paid quarterly by direct debit. Members face a €25 administration charge if they tell their banks to stop the direct debit before the CAI, a registered charity, cancels their subscriptions.

A fall in membership, which declined from 5,500 in 2008 to 3,300 by last summer, accelerated following the CAI’s decision in June to replace its monthly magazine, Consumer Choice, with a slimmed-down online alternative. The decision stemmed from a cash crisis at the association, which has laid off all permanent staff except for Dermott Jewell, the chief executive. The CAI has put its headquarters in Dublin on the market for €695,000.

Attempts to contact Michael Kilcoyne, the CAI’s chairman, and Raymond O’Rourke, its vice-chairman, were unsuccessful.Jewell was also unavailable. In the latest online edition of Consumer Choice, Jewell criticised UPC, a cable company, for imposing administration charges which he described as “outrageous”. The magazine advises members that the administration charge will be applied to CAI cancellations. The charge is not always applied in practice, the CAI said.


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