# Who's the worst member of the government?



## Purple (5 Mar 2009)

Just what it says, my vote is for Mary Coughlan; a clown amongst clowns. If it was a comedy she'd have the starring role.


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## PaddyW (5 Mar 2009)

I second that.


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## onekeano (5 Mar 2009)

jeez.......she's well up there but it's such a beauty contest with O'Cuiv and Cullen in the frame too. Probably doing an injustice to the wet fish brigade of Micheal Martin and Willy Wonka and the Greens. And then if you get down into the championship with the likes of Noel Aherne, Martin Mansergh and the Kebabman......... there's so many

Roy


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## diarmuidc (5 Mar 2009)

Or how about a clown-of-the-day award to

I will second Coughlan and a prized dope though.


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## Sunny (5 Mar 2009)

Coughlan (in her current role.) Agriculture suited her though! 

Cullen for his arrogance but I do admire him for still being a minister despite not acheiving one success of note in his various portfolios.

Willie O Dea because I just can't take him seriously.


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## dockingtrade (5 Mar 2009)

Mary Coughlan.


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## Shawady (5 Mar 2009)

Have to aggree with the choice of Coughlan but Cowen must be a close second.
Publically backed Roddy Molloy - a couple of days later he had to resign.
Publically stated there would be no budget - a couple of days later he announces a budget.
Brings last year's budget forward by 2 months and therefore totally under estimates the 2009 deficit.

Is it true that on the Week in Politics, he said he had not a clue what the revenue figures released this week would be like?


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## Mpsox (5 Mar 2009)

Mary White had an original idea, ok, so maths may not be her strong point, but it was a new thought
Coughlan did a reasonably good job in agriculture but now seems out of her depth
As a cork man, hate to say it, but my vote goes to Michael Martin, no matter where he goes, he just seems out of his depth.


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## ninsaga (5 Mar 2009)

Michael Martin - he screwed up Enterprise & Health - with that track record &in his current role we'll probably end up in a war against Israel!

He's a muppet.


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## Caveat (5 Mar 2009)

Mary Coughlan & Willy O'Dea.

Best? Possibly Dermot Ahern - he manages to almost always appear to be professional at least and speaks authoratively.  Don't like him though.


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## Lollix (5 Mar 2009)

onekeano said:


> jeez.......she's well up there but it's such a beauty contest with O'Cuiv and Cullen in the frame too. Probably doing an injustice to the wet fish brigade of Micheal Martin and Willy Wonka and the Greens. And then if you get down into the championship with the likes of Noel Aherne, Martin Mansergh and the Kebabman......... there's so many
> 
> Roy


 
O'Cuiv not the worst by any means -- he's a man of integrity at least, which is more than you can say for many of them.
For me the worst is Dick Roche, followed by Cullen, O'Dea, Harney and then take your pick.
I wouldn't put mary Coughlan in charge of parking cars, but hey, it's a democracy, more than half the voters were happy to elect her.


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## Mixednuts (5 Mar 2009)

Cullen by a mile .... e:voting ..will i continue


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## becky (5 Mar 2009)

ninsaga said:


> Michael Martin - he screwed up Enterprise & Health - with that track record &in his current role we'll probably end up in a war against Israel!
> 
> He's a muppet.


 
I don't mind Michael at all. I don't mind mary that much either.

Think MM has really gone to ground since he moved from health.  How did he mess up DETE?


Back on topic - I'll 5th or 6th M Coughlan.


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## dazza21ie (5 Mar 2009)

I nominate the following:
Barry Andrews, Dick Roche, Trevor Sergent, Noel Ahern, Sean Power, Tony Killeen, Connor Lenihan, Mary Wallace, Sean Haughey, Michael Kitt, Billy Kelleher, John McGuinness, Jimmy Devins, Maire Hoctor, John  Maloney, Michael Finneran, John Curran, Peter Power & Martin Manseragh.

Would we miss any of them if they lost their posts?


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## Purple (5 Mar 2009)

dazza21ie said:


> I nominate the following:
> Barry Andrews, Dick Roche, Trevor Sergent, Noel Ahern, Sean Power, Tony Killeen, Connor Lenihan, Mary Wallace, Sean Haughey, Michael Kitt, Billy Kelleher, John McGuinness, Jimmy Devins, Maire Hoctor, John  Maloney, Michael Finneran, John Curran, Peter Power & Martin Manseragh.
> 
> Would we miss any of them if they lost their posts?



What about Mary Coughlan?

Barry Andrews isn't bad and at least Rick Roche read the Lisbon treaty!


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## cole (5 Mar 2009)

Photo finish between Coughlan, Cullan and Harney. A triumverate of ineptitude.


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## Sunny (5 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Barry Andrews isn't bad and at least Rick Roche read the Lisbon treaty!


 
I agree. I think Barry Andrews has done a good job and Dick Roche does talk sense. I also think Pat Carey comes across well in a difficult job trying to defend his colleagues. Mary Hanafin also comes across well. 

Someone mentioned Trevor Seargent above and I will have to agree. As someone who has voted for him in the past, I have to hold my hands up and admit my innocence/stupidity.


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## dazza21ie (5 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> What about Mary Coughlan?
> 
> Barry Andrews isn't bad and at least Rick Roche read the Lisbon treaty!


 
She is very limited as a minister and prone to an occassional gaff but she is in good company in that regard. In her defence though she hasn't made an actual cock up within her department but lacking in ideas at the same time.

Others have done worse e.g. voting machines, health service payroll system, giving all OAP's medical cards and then taking medical cards away from OAP's etc etc.


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## Purple (5 Mar 2009)

dazza21ie said:


> In her defence though she hasn't made an actual cock up within her department but lacking in ideas at the same time.


 Her cock-up's are harder to see but a major part of her job is to sell Ireland to the international business community and she is worse than useless at that.


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## dazza21ie (5 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Her cock-up's are harder to see but a major part of her job is to sell Ireland to the international business community and she is worse than useless at that.


 
We are not that easy to sell at the moment especially after all the banking scandals in the last few months.


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## bullbars (5 Mar 2009)

Sunny said:


> Coughlan (in her current role.) Agriculture suited her though!


 
Coughlan is going downhill rapidly in everyones books. Agriculture suited her to a point but there are similiaritys betwen the closing of the the Greencore factorys in 2005/6 and the Dell plant as she was seen as not doing enough to halt the closures in both situations.
As Tainaiste and Minister for trade & employment I think she is out of her depth.

Cowen is quickly running out of time to redeem himself.


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## liaconn (5 Mar 2009)

Mary Coughlan is way, way out of her depth. She is a local politician at heart and should go back to the parish pump.


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## Purple (5 Mar 2009)

dazza21ie said:


> We are not that easy to sell at the moment especially after all the banking scandals in the last few months.



I've seen her at work first hand... I am lost for words...


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## shesells (5 Mar 2009)

COWEN, COWEN, COWEN!!!

Where to start, oh yes, the Celtic Tiger economy inherited from the Rainbow Government, good times. Things went downhill when Cowen took over from McCreevy in finance. Things have gone steadily downhill since then and look where we are now!!

Not that any of the rest of them are any great shakes but Cowen has screwed the country and now represents us on the international stage as (unelected) leader of the country. No wonder we're in the state we're in!


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## bullbars (5 Mar 2009)

shesells said:


> Not that any of the rest of them are any great shakes but Cowen has screwed the country and now represents us on the international stage as (unelected) leader of the country. No wonder we're in the state we're in!


 
He is quick to lash out the statement that this country is not alone in these difficult times and that there is a worldwide recession etc. This may be true but in his role as minister for finance and subsequently as Taoiseach, he cant admit that he and is cohorts did not do all they could and should have done. 
If they introduced a tough & stringent budget back in October we'd be nearly 5 months in to it and a lot of the moaning would be over and done with before christmas. The Governments continued procrastination is doing as more damage than any opposition party. We need to be led, I would find the whole lot easier to digest if we had a strong confident leaders that we could trust to lead us out of this.


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## Lex Foutish (5 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Her cock-up's are harder to see but a major part of her job is to sell Ireland to the international business community and she is worse than useless at that.


 
I'm glad you finished that sentence off, Purple!


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## angrylad (5 Mar 2009)

Joan Burton - now imagine her in power!!


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## Lex Foutish (5 Mar 2009)

angrylad said:


> Joan Burton - now imagine her in power!!


 
Oh God, Angrylad. Totally agree! 

Did you see her on with Vincent Browne last night? She kept talking rubbish and refused to give a relevant answer to anything! Infuriating! 

If that's the quality of the Opposition, who the hell are we going to vote for next time round?


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## Howitzer (5 Mar 2009)

That there's been no mention of Noel Dempsey confirms a lot of things I've always thought of him. He's a good "politician", like a good number of other members, but that's nothing to be proud of. The man doesn't have an original thought in his head and couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bad. 

I genuinely expect him to be the next leader of FF.


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## Padraigb (5 Mar 2009)

shesells said:


> ...Things went downhill when Cowen took over from McCreevy in finance...



McCreevey drew the roadmap. Cowen followed it.


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## Purple (5 Mar 2009)

Padraigb said:


> McCreevey drew the roadmap. Cowen followed it.



Bertie is the man who is to blame for the current mess. Cowan had a hand in it, as did McCreevey, as did the rainbow government which started to spend way ahead of inflation and take people out of the tax net, but the buck stopped with Bertie. 
It is worth noting that at no stage did Labour ever suggest that the government cut back on spending or increase taxes in any meaningful way. No amount of BS from Joan Burton will change that.

IMO the last good government we had from an economic point of view (and that's the only criteria I vote on since the courts decide social change) was the FF/Labour government of Albert Reynolds and Dick Spring. I wonder how things would have turned out of Reynolds didn't have the ego/stubbornness or inferiority complex that meant he had to claim total vindication after the beef tribunal and force Dick Spring to pull out of the coalition.


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## Teatime (6 Mar 2009)

angrylad said:


> Joan Burton - now imagine her in power!!


 
She's appalling. Moaner and spoofer.


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## michaelm (6 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Just what it says, my vote is for Mary Coughlan; a clown amongst clowns.


Yes. Coughlan is chief clown of the troop.  Many seem to be out of their depth and treading water, and certainly Roche and Cullen are the hardest to stomach, but Mary C is all/lost at sea.  Given the import of her position at this time, she is the most glaring example of the Peter Principle that I've ever seen.  What's worse is that she's in that position largely due to nonsense gender balance considerations.


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## GeneralZod (6 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Bertie is the man who is to blame for the current mess. Cowan had a hand in it, as did McCreevey, as did the rainbow government which started to spend way ahead of inflation and take people out of the tax net, but the buck stopped with Bertie.



At least McCreevy controlled Government spending in the early noughties before he was sent into lucrative European exile. He also used some of the surplus revenue for the national pension reserve fund.

Let's keep the blame clearly focused on Cowen and Bertie and not taint McCreevy's name.


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## Padraigb (6 Mar 2009)

GeneralZod said:


> At least McCreevy controlled Government spending in the early noughties before he was sent into lucrative European exile. He also used some of the surplus revenue for the national pension reserve fund.
> 
> Let's keep the blame clearly focused on Cowen and Bertie and not taint McCreevy's name.



Setting up the National Pensions Reserve Fund was a good move. Just about every other major change he made was not good. He set us down the wrong road in terms of exchequer funding, and pointing that out is not tainting his name: it's putting the blame where it should be put.

Al that Cowen did as Minister for Finance was to follow the trail that McCreevy blazed for him. That is what Cowen did wrong.


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## bamboozle (6 Mar 2009)

i think david Begg is the worst member of government followed closely by turlough o sullivan


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## GeneralZod (6 Mar 2009)

Cowen didn't just follow through on McCreevy's policies. McCreevy kept the government in surplus. Cowen pulled out all the stops and took spending out of control. In his first year he increased it by almost 10%, he increased it again the next year and in the third year before the 2007 general election he made one of the most irresponsible budgets in the history of the state. It was clear to many commentators at the time that it was unsustainable.


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## ninsaga (6 Mar 2009)

bamboozle said:


> i think david Begg is the worst member of government followed closely by turlough o sullivan



huh?


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## Bedlam (6 Mar 2009)

An awfull pity Cullen didn't follow the door from the helicopter............wait for the claim for post traumatic stress


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## liaconn (7 Mar 2009)

michaelm said:


> Yes. Coughlan is chief clown of the troop. Many seem to be out of their depth and treading water, and certainly Roche and Cullen are the hardest to stomach, but Mary C is all/lost at sea. Given the import of her position at this time, she is the most glaring example of the Peter Principle that I've ever seen. What's worse is that she's in that position largely due to nonsense gender balance considerations.


 
If the whole country can see this, why can't Cowen? To leave her in charge of Enterprise, Trade & Employment when its probably never been a more important and crucial economic Department is irresponsible in the extreme.


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## Lollix (7 Mar 2009)

liaconn said:


> If the whole country can see this, why can't Cowen? To leave her in charge of Enterprise, Trade & Employment when its probably never been a more important and crucial economic Department is irresponsible in the extreme.


 
Politics in Ireland in particular is not about what's best for the country, it's all about vested interests and party interests.
Coughlan is part of the Cowen clique; she supported him when he went for the leadership. It would be unthinkable to drop her, regardless of how bad she is, it would undermine the status quo completely. There would then be no point in sticking with your clique though thick and thin if you could be discarded for something simple like incompetence.
Coughlan will stay, as will the other Cowenites. The ones likely to be sacrificed to appease the mob will be some of the remnants of the Bertie bunch.


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## Complainer (7 Mar 2009)

michaelm said:


> certainly Roche and Cullen are the hardest to stomach


Agreed, but for very different reasons. What ever you say about Dick, he is no fool. Which brings us to Martin Cullen. At the time of the eVoting debacle, a friend of mine planned to buy the domain gob****e.com, and just post a picture of Martin on the home page, with no further comment necessary.

One of the radio shows had a vox pop from the Ard Fheis last week, where one FF member made the point that Cowen, Lenihan and Coughlan were all TD's children, and had no idea what the real world was like.


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## Purple (8 Mar 2009)

bamboozle said:


> i think david Begg is the worst member of government followed closely by turlough o sullivan


Yes, you are right. He's more intelligent than most of them but, like many rich socialists, he lets his desire to resurrect the bankrupt ideals of collectivism over-rule what he knows to be true.


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## Shawady (9 Mar 2009)

The SSIA scheme that McCreevey introduced was talked about as a good move at the time to stop the economy from 'overheating'. In hindsight, maybe it was just another example of the governement throwing money at a problem.
Does anyone know what the total cost to the taxpayer was for this scheme?


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## Sunny (9 Mar 2009)

Shawady said:


> The SSIA scheme that McCreevey introduced was talked about as a good move at the time to stop the economy from 'overheating'. In hindsight, maybe it was just another example of the governement throwing money at a problem.
> Does anyone know what the total cost to the taxpayer was for this scheme?


 
It doesn't matter because it isn't an ongoing cost and was paid for out of a budget surplus so in effect it was like a tax rebate. (albeit a very generous one!!).


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## AgathaC (12 Mar 2009)

Mary Coughlan. Having heard her this evening defending the 3000 pay rise due to TDs (who are already vastly overpaid IMHO), it really convinces me that TDs and Ministers are completely out of touch with reality-all the while encouraging the rest of us to share the pain, of course. Animal Farm springs to mind.


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## bb12 (13 Mar 2009)

I also vote for Coughlan. She managed to almost destroy the whole horse industry when she was minister for agriculture with her inapptitude in controlling the swamp fever outbreak.


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## nad (13 Mar 2009)

Has to be Martin Cullen, He's just so full of his own importance.


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