# Homebond claim - water ingress



## sparkles

Looking for some advice regarding ongoing water ingress problem.  We  purchased a duplex apartment in late 2007 for EUR580k and found it to be  shoddily build, lots of minor incidences (leaks from flat roof above,  leaks around windows, insufficient insulation etc., all fixed by  developer as they were still on site at the time).  However, fast  forward to snow weather 18 months ago to find a major water ingress  problem from common area terrace above our sitting room. Water came  through walls and up through hardwood floors in the lower level of the  property.  So we had an independent engineer do an inspection and  report, and made a claim to Homebond.  Homebond has been on site for the  last 18 months trying to fix the problem which is getting worse.  They  take some action, we wait til it rains to see if it worked.  And it  hasn't thus far.  I realise we are 'lucky' that Homebond is engaging  with us, and trying to remedy the problem and that we are in the  'process'. They were here yesterday, and said they were stumped' they  just can't figure out how the water is still getting in after all the  work they've done.

They are working in the dark; there are no  architects plans, architect is gone bust and wont hand over plans  (safety file).  Developer gone bust.  I have been to Dublin City  Council, National Consumer Agency, local TD, RIAI etc etc etc, and  no-one wants to know about it.  Legal advice is that we could pursue the  developer, and maybe get an award against him but would be left waiting  for any kind of payment whilst incurring big legal fees.  

We  are in massive negative equity, and overpay our mortgage by EUR 250 per  month.  We want to move on with our lives but cannot sell due to the  defect, and cannot rent it out as we're on a tracker (and rent wouldn't  cover more that 2 thirds of the monthly mortgage payment plus the lender  may get us off the tracker for renting).  We cannot use the room  properly, black mould on walls, plasterboard walls down and concrete  slabs with water tracking down them exposed.  So as well as the  inconvenience of it all, it has affected our outlook; we feel trapped  (two small children to think of as well).

Management Co is made up of owner occupiers as directors including myself (small complex) and handover isn't complete yet.  

I  have looked through the HB contract and don't understand the detail in  some parts.  If Homebond can't fix the problem, what happens?  My  understanding is that the insurance covers up to EUR1million - could we  propose Homebond buys our property from us?  

Any advice  appreciated.  Even knowing where to get sound legal advise is difficult  for us as we've paid out so much in professional fees about this, but  seem to be getting nowhere.
Thanks for reading!


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## lantus

sorry to hear about your situation, its explempifies everything I hate about the construction industry in Ireland. Sub standrd rubbish while the industry pats itself on the back and tells itself how good it is.

Firstly you are incredibly lucky to be dealing with homebond. Hopefully it will pan out.

Even if the architects have gone bust the individuals responsible could still be personally liable for any serious faults as in this case. As registered professionals they are personally liable as well as any company they work for. Same for most engineers.

Builders are basically cowboys and not really accountable to anyone. They are the snakes of the industry claiming that nothing is really their fault. I doubt anything but court would get them back to rectify the problems but keep pushing them.

So, its a possible new option assuming the architect has any wealth and can pay you and you can get a successful prosecution.


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## sparkles

Hi lantus,
Thanks for the reply.  Yes, we are lucky that Homebond have engaged with us.  But they haven't fixed the problem in 18 months.  It's quite funny how they operate.  I ask for a report on what actions they are taking and they look at me like I'm mad.  I ask for a report, they think I'm crazy.  I say, surely you have to report to your superior/director/board on what this is costing Homebond in the last 18 months, and they say no, not at all!

I spoke with the architect when the issue first arose.  He told me that he was the last man standing regarding our development, that it would cost 10k to get the plans out of storage, that it is my solicitors fault for not asking for the plans when handling the contracts, and that if I wanted anything from him to go legal.  The company has since folded.  But the safety file probably doesn't exist anyway.  Our legal advice is that we could pursue architect and/or developer but even if we did win in court, everything they have is probably charged to the banks anyway, and they have no liability if the companies don't exist anymore.  So we'd shell out thousands in legal fees for nothing. 

The crux of the matter is we were sold a defective property, and no-one is responsible for that.  Except us (who relied on paid professional advice from solicitor, engineer & lender), 'cos we signed the contract when closing on the sale. 

I read through the Homebond contract last night.  There's a dispute and arbitration clause in it.  I could initiate a formal complaint with them, and then make a complaint to the Insurance Ombudsman.  But not sure what that might achieve.  

I just want a watertight house (that doesn't make my family wheezy), that we can eventually sell.


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## Rrrmmm

*Homebond - water ingress*

Hi sparkles

I'm currently filling in a claim form for homebond.. I'm just wondering did they do anything with your internal walls?  

Thanks 
Rrrrmmm


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## browtal

I hope Homebond manage to sort your problem. I had dealings with them a few years ago and found them very difficult. They provided every excuse about the problems with the building.
We had a roof leak in a couple of places. We thought it was in the valley of the roof, but they tested the valley with a weak hose and no water leaked. They also tested the water content of the ceiling, with a tool and said it showed a low water content.  
We then took the hose and with normal pressure, not just letting the water drop from the hose, the water penetrated immediately.
We found we had to fight all the way and when we eventually threatened publicity they solved the problems.  Not sure if it was worth the battle, but dampness is a serious problem. 
Keep up the good fight, their contract seems to mean little. Good luck Browtal


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## Thirsty

> make a complaint to the Insurance Ombudsman.


Ombudsman will tell you they don't have jurisdiction on Homebond.

I don't know anyone who hasn't found Homebond difficult.  They will fight you at every turn.


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## thebreeze

*Homebond are a sham*

Sorry to hear about your problems. We experienced something similar with water penetrating through a balcony and causing our ceilings to cave in. Homebond were contacted, and arrived quickly. The builders never took them seriously , and why should they. When have you ever read or heard a story about Homebond fining a builder or at least stripping them of the Homebond logo. The country was full of cowboy builders running amuch, with Homebonds blessings. Homebond is run by builders to help sell more crap houses. They publish a few guidelines but never enforce them. We now find ourselves like you, with a badly finished poorly insulated Homebond approved house. Our builders are bust, the engineers are bust and we are suing homebond. We are still in the courts and this is after 5 years. The system is ludicrous , as we did NOTHING WRONG. The HOMEBOND quango should be wound up as it is just a jobs for the boys joke.We never received anything in writing from them either,and they only made a court appearance after 4 years of letter writing by our solicitors and barristers. God knows how they finanace or run their operation , but as a customer of theirs ,I wish to see them all fired as it is not "fit for purpose".


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## Complainer

Your engineers might be bust, but the insurance company that provided their professional indemnity insurance is not bust. Can you go after them?


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## ryanline79

Complainer said:


> Your engineers might be bust, but the insurance company that provided their professional indemnity insurance is not bust. Can you go after them?



I think complainer is correct. Might be worth appointing your own engineer to find the source of the problem. Once this has been identified then its about figuring who was at fault for this problem. As complainer says, if it was the Engineers / Architects regardless of whether they are in business or not they would have had professional indemnity insurance and so you can claim against that. 

Also could you claim against your own home insurance? They would then counter-claim against whoever was at fault further back up the line?


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## thebreeze

*Indemnity cover for engineers*

No, the insurers claim the engineer did not put them on notice in a timely manner, and refuse to pay up.

The builders insurance refuses to pay for "bad workmanship".

Homebond now want to go to Arbitration, after 6 years....it seems they can invoke the arbitration clause even at this late stage.

So anyone thinking of pursuing Homebond for their house problems better get ready for the very long haul.


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## lantus

If it is a building defect then the OMC is responsible as insurance wont cover it. Homebond would be the *cough* 'best' *cough* option outside of that.

Its awful because most OMC's wont have anywhere near the money to deal with issues like this. I know of one development near us that has a leak that may well be a defect in some building roof element. They have zero money until service fee's are collected sometime next year!

Insurance normally will cover the consequential loss which is the inside elements even if they dont cover the fault itself. Although with premiums where they are it can often be a non starter for some plasterboard and paint.

So I would get some contractors out and at least get a range of competative quotes to remedy this. This money will need to be built into the service fee's or drawn from the bulging sinking funds that as we all know rarely exist. Keep banging on homebonds door though.

Let us know how you get on.


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## Jenny butterly

Hi Sparkles
we have had a very similar problem with our groundfloor apartment. Have you had any joy since your last post? We are at a loss about what to do and we have no money to pursue it in the courts! We are at our wits end!! We bought in 2007 and i'm not sure if Homebond even covers it anymore.


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## Leo

Jenny butterly said:


> Hi Sparkles
> we have had a very similar problem with our groundfloor apartment. Have you had any joy since your last post? We are at a loss about what to do and we have no money to pursue it in the courts! We are at our wits end!! We bought in 2007 and i'm not sure if Homebond even covers it anymore.



Homebond cover is limited to 5 years for water ingress.


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## Frank

Has homebond ever paid out on anything?

They dodged the pyrite.

They seem to have infinite dodging and delaying tactics.

What exactly is a homebond 10 year guarantee worth?


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## Leo

Frank said:


> What exactly is a homebond 10 year guarantee worth?



Very little based on any evidence in the threads here.


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