# Work Related Repetitive Strain Injury - effect on my record, compensation etc?



## blueskies1 (29 Apr 2009)

Hi,
I was diagnosed by a doctor and a physiotherapist as having RSI due to my daily tasks at work. 

I've been out of work for three weeks. I was asked this week to attend the Chief Medical Officer, I assume to be assessed as to whether I can continue to work in my section.

Does anyone have any experience of this injury? 

Worried about the long term effects of this on my work record.

A friend suggested getting compensation. 

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks


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## Mommah (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

My first reaction on being told I have a repetitive strain injury would be ...How can I correct it?

I am pretty sure there is alot you can do yourself to remedy this situation.

The reality is you are probably responsible to a large degree yourself.
lack of fitness, poor posture, poor flexibility combined probably with an ill fitting work station or poor work practices...which is easy enough to adjust yourself in the majority of cases.

Putting alot of energy into suing your employer while likely make your condition worse not better ( lots of medical evidence)

You don't mention what type of repetitive strain injury it is.
Discussion of medical problems is banned on this site anyway.

I would focus on getting better not suing as generally the two are mutually exclusive.


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## extopia (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



Mommah said:


> I would focus on getting better not suing as generally the two are mutually exclusive.



Good post, well said.


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## Smashbox (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

I think I would be thinking about getting it treated, having some physio and looking at what your doing wrong, not thinking about suing anyone.


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## blueskies1 (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

No interest in suing. A friend of mine suggested it, as my injury is quite painful: pains in neck, shoulder, arm, wrist and hand. Lost feeling in my arm for two days. It's no joke RSI. Treatment is a slow progress and of course bad work practices and over use of computer is to blame. Just wondering if anyone out there actually have/had this work injury. It's not a moral issue, it's an employment issue.


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## Mommah (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



blueskies1 said:


> Hi,
> I was diagnosed by a doctor and a physiotherapist as having RSI due to my daily tasks at work.


Its not just the task...its how you carry out the task and the body that is doing the task....ie fit and healthy or fat, stiff and unhealthy.
Your work station is a factor but only 30% max.
Workstations are easy to adjust and don't have to be fancy.



blueskies1 said:


> Worried about the long term effects of this on my work record.


Suing your employer will likely have a worse effect on your work record.
The stress of it will definitely  make your neck feel worse.
The evidence is that sueing slows/delays the recovery process.
But maybe the money will be worth it...that's for you to decide.



blueskies1 said:


> No interest in suing. .


The title of the thread suggest otherwise.


blueskies1 said:


> my injury is quite painful: pains in neck, shoulder, arm, wrist and hand. Lost feeling in my arm for two days. It's no joke RSI. Treatment is a slow progress.


 
I really sympathise. It is very very distressing. But its your problem and you can deal with it. Your employer can help you with regard to work stations etc. If your attitude is one where you take control of this problem you will be far more likely to recover than if you attitude is one where you are a passive victim of your employers neglect.



blueskies1 said:


> and of course bad work practices and over use of computer is to blame. .


Its YOUR bad work practices and the way YOU use the computer that is to blame. You can change this. The neck pain didn't come out of the computer and up your arm.  It was the way you sat, the height you put your chair at, the height you had your screen at...your basic level of fitness (strength, flexibility , endurance), your weight.



blueskies1 said:


> Just wondering if anyone out there actually have/had this work injury..


I've had various repetitive strain injuries over the years.
My hubby has a very bad neck...but he keeps very fit and flexible and strong. Worked 12 hrs per day at a desk, very active....loves cycling which is a killer on the neck...but he is trying to strengthen it more so he can tolerate more cycling.


blueskies1 said:


> It's not a moral issue, it's an employment issue.


 
Its not an employment issue, its a health issue.


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## blueskies1 (29 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Thanks for your help. Short staffed office didn't help either. Lots of changes to be done. Thank you


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## stevo (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

If you went to sue, lots of things would be taken into account, for instance
* What H&S training was provided
* Did you attend it
* Did you sign the sheet acknowledging your attendance
* Does your organisation have a programme of regular work station assessments?
* If not, do they have trained Work Station assessors available to assess and advise employees on request. 
* When you first experienced pain, what steps did you initiate e.g. did you contact the H&S Officer/Rep and ask for assistance with organising your work station. 
* If aids (e.g. foot rests, wrist rests etc) were provided, did you use them. 

The above is just a flavour of the kinds of issues what would be raised while preparing for a court case and is by no means exhaustive. 

The cause of RSI is not automatically the employers fault. Of course, it might be, but then again it might be the employees fault, or a combination of both. 

Personally, if I were in this situation I would be frank and open with the organisation, be honest and ask for their support in your recovery. Most likely they will be quite willing to provide you with support (e.g. cover cost of physio or any other recuperative treatments). Show that you are working to sort the issue with the long term aim of getting fully recovered and back to work. 
Also, ask for their assistance when you return to work i.e. WSA as mentioned above, and provision of any aids (e.g. footrests if desk height too high, a chair with arm rests etc etc) that the WSA identifies as being needed. 

Only if the organisation start taking a defensive and/or aggressive attitude do you need to start considering alternatives. But, right now I would take the approach I outlined above.


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## blueskies1 (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Thanks Stevo. To all your points outlined, none were done. I want to work with the employer to get back to work soon. H&S is a huge issue in our office that has been ignored for a long time. 

There will be no cover of cost for my treatment unfortunately, which is frustrating. Thanks for your help


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## gearoid (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Hi Blueskies,
Physiotherapy and exercise will help. It is likely due to poor posture and as such I wouldn't sue your employer. It sounds very much like the upper trapezius strain I get. 

Know the injury. Learn exercises to combat the causes e.g. Pilates. Keep working on it.

Have a read of the following.

http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/repetitive-stress-injury

http://sarahspilatescafe.blogspot.com/search/label/neck pain

 Buy a theraband and try No. 3

[broken link removed]



http://books.google.ie/books?id=0lk...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPR17,M1 

- A good read on neck strain.

I hope this isn't edited for dealing with medical issues. It's just a little bit of help.


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## BoscoTalking (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



blueskies1 said:


> Thanks Stevo. To all your points outlined, none were done. I want to work with the employer to get back to work soon. H&S *is a huge issue in our office that has been ignored for a long time*.
> 
> There will be no cover of cost for my treatment unfortunately, which is frustrating. Thanks for your help


while you can sue on these grounds - its not helpful to try work for a guy you sued adn really there are not too many places out there so forget that for a minute. A gp and physio may well diagnose you have the illness but they cannot specify that you got it from workplace work unless they assess you in-situ, (perhaps you play golf terribly 3 days a week and obtained it that way. or use a laptop for extended periods outside work hours...) I think you need to raise the issue with your boss - H&S has to be taken seriously.


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## Latrade (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

You can't sue for RSI. 

RSI is an outdated term that refers to a collection of conditions from the very minor (trapped nerve) to sometimes severe (carpel tunnel syndrome) and so is not accepted as a "medical condition". 

Also your GP is not in a position to diagnose you with any work-related strain, they are general practitioners and so do not have sufficient medical/workplace knowledge to make that call. Possibly demonstrated if they have given you a certificate stating RSI. Also a physiotherapist is not in the position to make this call.

You will have to seek out a specialist in order to get a specific diagnosis and based on a job description whether work is likely to have had an impact.

From experience, there is an element of taking a horse to water with workstation set-up. Despite employers meeting current minimum standards, employees are inclined to sit how they want. 

However, can you sue, yes. Will you win, don't know as there isn't enough information. Though note you will have to go through the injuries board first. 

Hopefully your pain and suffering isn't too severe and short lived. As others have said physiotherapy and being active will help considerably in shortening the pain and help recovery dramatically.


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## Purple (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



stevo said:


> If you went to sue, lots of things would be taken into account, for instance
> * What H&S training was provided
> * Did you attend it
> * Did you sign the sheet acknowledging your attendance
> ...




Are you seriously suggesting that people need to be trained how to sit in a chair and that organisations (this could be a small business) should employ people to make sure that people are sitting in their chairs properly?
Unless the OP is 8 and working in a sweat shop with other 8 year olds then they should, at this stage of their life, have the wit to draw the conclusion that “oh, my neck hurts because of the way I am sitting; maybe I should sit differently”. 
Bloody hell, when will people take responsibility for their own actions?

_“a programme of regular work station assessments”, _This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, I’ve heard it all now!


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## David_Dublin (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Purple - absolutely right, and it needs to be said. If you get pain from how you do your job then you try to make changes. The kind of pain the OP is experiencing, if RSI/work related, does not come on overnight, it happens gradually and only if the person does nothing to inform themselves about preventative measures, and taking the appropriate steps. If you were being asked to carry 10 kilo bags up and down stairs by yourself all day then that would be another thing, but you are operating a PC. You may be able to get a solictor who could win you compensation based on all that ludicrous stuff about having posture related H&S policies etc, but that is all nonsense - concentrate on getting yourself better, and leave your employer alone.


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## Deiseblue (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



blueskies1 said:


> Thanks Stevo. To all your points outlined, none were done. I want to work with the employer to get back to work soon. H&S is a huge issue in our office that has been ignored for a long time.
> 
> There will be no cover of cost for my treatment unfortunately, which is frustrating. Thanks for your help


 If Health and Safety is such an issue you should contact the Health and Safety Authority on 1890 289 389 ( 9 to 5 Mon. to Fri.)
There is legislation out there to help employees in this situation.


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## MaryBe (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



Purple said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that people need to be trained how to sit in a chair and that organisations (this could be a small business) should employ people to make sure that people are sitting in their chairs properly?
> Unless the OP is 8 and working in a sweat shop with other 8 year olds then they should, at this stage of their life, have the wit to draw the conclusion that “oh, my neck hurts because of the way I am sitting; maybe I should sit differently”.
> Bloody hell, when will people take responsibility for their own actions?
> 
> _“a programme of regular work station assessments”, _This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, I’ve heard it all now!


 
Well said Purple.... What is the world coming to.  It seems to be the norm to blame someone else for one's own self induced problems.  In a previous thread we had someone slipping on ice in a builders yard and again looking to claim...
I think we will see a culture change in the future.  With the constant doom and gloom on the job front, we will only be too glad to suffer consequences in order to feed the family and pay the bills.  Back to the good old days eh when we respected each other and appreciated what we had.


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## dessiefitz (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

"Does your organisation have a programme of regular work station assessments?"

If they do, those people are earning their paycheques!


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## Alias (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



David_Dublin said:


> Purple - absolutely right, and it needs to be said. If you get pain from how you do your job then you try to make changes. The kind of pain the OP is experiencing, if RSI/work related, does not come on overnight, it happens gradually and only if the person does nothing to inform themselves about preventative measures, and taking the appropriate steps. I



This.  If your pain is as bad as you say, it's been a long time coming.  You could have taken steps to get it under control well before now.

I have RSI in my arms and hands, and some (preexisting unrelated) back problems, and still sit at a desk all day with relatively little pain.  I take care of myself, I take breaks regularly, I don't sit with my hands on my mouse or keyboard unless I'm actually using that item.  I also have my chair correctly placed (so that I don't have to reach up to the keyboard) with the arms removed (they are no good for desk work) and a foot stool.  I go to physio when needed, pilates every week, and participate in a few other sports. 

I have made all these changes on my own and consulting my GP, to allow me to work comfortably.  When I first started working in a full time desk job I realised that there was no way for me to do so without some or all of this, so I did it.  Now you'll need to do it too.


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## Ms X (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

I once had an employee who claimed RSI. I sent him to an occupational health specialist at a cost of €300 who diagnosed that the employee's claim of RSI was in fact the result of a minor arm injury caused from swinging his golf clubs too often! 

So I agree RSI can be a result of other injuries and the person's lifestyle. However there is alot to be said for setting up your workstation correctly. 
 .


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## Yeager (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

I'm shocked at some of the comments on this thread and the lack of knowledge (even ignorance) on ergonomics. I agree that personal responsibility needs to be taken by all employees regarding ergonomics however it is not always the case that everyone knows the correct posture, use of short cut keys, correct sized mouse, micro breaks, not resting wrist on the table etc. Remember some people do spend 6-8 hours at a desk everyday. Your organisation needs to recognise ergonomics and you and your workstation need an assessment asap. This will not go away if action is not taken. Anyone that has had an RSI can relate to the OP's discomfort. This day in age you should not be coming home from work injured and do not have to tollerate it. Escalate to manager and HSA (as a last resort).


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## blueskies1 (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

I am the original poster that was looking for advice on RSI (not a run down on the state of the country). I'm going to try and stay calm and polite here even though a lot of these posts have p****d me off. 

People suggesting I don't appreciate what I have etc. and as one poster put it 'should suffer consequences in order to pay bills'. You wouldn't be writing that if you lost all feeling in your arm, your hand went purple and you couldn't even turn on a light switch or hold a pen. Oh and you were so dizzy and weak, you couldn't leave the house. Don't be quick to judge.
And as for the taking correct steps at work, I come in at 10am, take a break at 11am and go on lunch at 12.30, my work is very physical, 70 per cent physical and 30 per cent computer use. I get up from my desk every 20 minutes. I'm not a couch potato either, but RSI can still happen.
Thanks to Yeager for his/her supportive comments. Of course ergonomics exists, it's been around for a while, anyone that's not aware of that is living in the Dark Ages.


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## gearoid (1 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

..


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## becky (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

The employer is taking the necessary steps by sending you to the Chief Medical Officer who will then advise them of your fitness to work or not.  If you have to be re assigned this should have no bearing on your work record.   

I'm working in the HSE for 20 years and have to say I never heard of "Work Station assessors".  Thank God they haven't been to my office which is known as the box room of the department (full of junk).


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## NicolaM (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



blueskies1 said:


> I'm going to try and stay calm and polite here even though a lot of these posts have p****d me off.



Unfortunately when you post on the internet, you are not always going to get opinions that you like, or agree with.

It seems to me that there have been a lot of very useful posts there, even if they have not been saying what you want to hear.

Nicola

Ps I can see why Gearoid decided not to contribute again


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## Complainer (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

It is rather sad to see the bias in responses, with the mad rush to blame the OP in ignorance of the full circumstances. Certainly, the employer bears certain moral and legal responsibilities, including provision of workstation assessments, appropriate equipment and training to employees.

OP - I would suggest that you engage your union and your H&S representative regarding the glaring gaps in provision of H&S requirements. In relation to your own case, you may well need to engage specialist medical advice.


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## NicolaM (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Title= *Repeditive strain injury-sue employer?*


blueskies1 said:


> A friend suggested getting compensation. Any advice appreciated.


Complainer, I am not surprised in any bias in responses, given the title (posted by the OP) of this thread,  and the suggestion of a 'friend' to get compensation.
If the compensation issue had not been on the OP's mind*, I do not think they would have posted the query in the way they did.

Nicola

* I do note that he/she said further on that they had no interest in suing, but I'm not sure why the initial post would have been re suing if this were not the case


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## Complainer (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



NicolaM said:


> * I do note that he/she said further on that they had no interest in suing, but I'm not sure why the initial post would have been re suing if this were not the case


Presumably the OP felt obliged to back down because of the intimidating, bullying and harranging (sp?) nature of many of the responses.


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## NicolaM (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*

Complainer, OP posted that 4 posts in.

There were three replies prior to that, the main one being Momah's, which I would have thought was helpful, and I do know how it could possibly be described as intimidating, bullying, or harranging (sorry, I can't spell that either!). 

What is wrong with people pointing out that there is an element of personal  responsibility involved in this?
How could that be perceived as bullying?

Nicola


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## Complainer (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



NicolaM said:


> What is wrong with people pointing out that there is an element of personal  responsibility involved in this?
> How could that be perceived as bullying?


Because they didn't point out the 'element of personal responsibility'. They rushed to blame the OP and evade any responsibility on the part of the employer in a rush of group-think.



Mommah said:


> The evidence is that sueing slows/delays the recovery process.


I'd be very interested in seeing this evidence.


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## ajapale (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



blueskies1 said:


> Hi,
> I was diagnosed by a doctor and a physiotherapist as having RSI due to my daily tasks at work.
> 
> I've been out of work for three weeks. I was asked this week to attend the Chief Medical Officer, I assume to be assessed as to whether I can continue to work in my section.
> ...



This interesting thread is beginning to drift a little.

Would posters refoucus on the OP's original question and continue to abide by the posting guidelines.

Thanks,
aj
moderator


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## BoscoTalking (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



Purple said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that people need to be trained how to sit in a chair and that organisations (this could be a small business) should employ people to make sure that people are sitting in their chairs properly?when will people take responsibility for their own actions?
> 
> _“a programme of regular work station assessments”, _This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, I’ve heard it all now!


Sorry but its more than a suggestion - its the law.


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## stevo (2 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



Purple said:


> *Are you seriously suggesting that people need to be trained how to sit in a chair and that organisations (this could be a small business) should employ people to make sure that people are sitting in their chairs properly?*
> Unless the OP is 8 and working in a sweat shop with other 8 year olds then they should, at this stage of their life, have the wit to draw the conclusion that “oh, my neck hurts because of the way I am sitting; maybe I should sit differently”.
> Bloody hell, when will people take responsibility for their own actions?
> 
> _“a programme of regular work station assessments”, _This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, I’ve heard it all now!


 
I'm not seriously suggesting anything. The law is seriously suggesting it. 

Chceck out the Display Screen Equipment Regulations 2007
[broken link removed]

I fully agree with you - people SHOULD take responsibility for their own actions. But, if you are an employer, you will also be aware that employers have a duty of care to their employees, and so quite often certain measures have to be taken to help them to protect their health and safety.

and, no, of course an organisation doesn't have to "*employ people to make sure that people are sitting in their chairs properly?".* It's quite simple to have one WS assessor trained up for X number of employees - then, as an additional part of their "normal" job, they could conduct a WS assessment on either a yearly basis, or whenever there is a new hire, or whenever there is a change in conditions (e.g. change of offices) etc etc... whatever the organisation deems to be sufficient to ensure safe conditions at work. If this is a small organisation with maybe 10 employees, a yearly schedule of WSA would work out at only 10 employees x20mins per assessment = 3hr 20mins of someones time every year. The money spent on paying someone to spend 3.3 hours per year on WSA might go a long way towards firstly protecting employees from RSI , and secondly in the event of being sued it would demonstrate that the "duty of care" had been taken seriously and might make the difference between losing and winning the case. 

I gave my opinion above based on the preparation I had to do to defend an RSI claim a few years ago. Perhaps you wouldn't be so derogatory towards the information above if you were familiar with employment law, H&S laws and the importance of ergonomics in the workplace.

Stevo's Wife.


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## ajapale (3 May 2009)

Complainer, NicolaM, Momah.

Your interesting contributions have been split off here:
Does the process of litigation itself encourage disability and compromise recovery?

Please leave this thread to discuss the particular questions raised by the OP.

aj
moderator


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## Purple (3 May 2009)

Steveo’s wife, if a work station assessment (making sure people are sitting at their desk properly) is carried out and the recipient of said assessment refuses to sit at their desk “properly” because they have had bugger all problems for the last 20 years what sanction should be taken against that employee?

If an employee experiences an injury or discomfort because of how they are working their employer should facilitate them in any reasonable way. In the case of the OP they should be getting paid while out and their employer should be covering medical costs.
In my organisation, and the broader group of companies (around 120 people) we have no workstation assessors and there have been no fatalities so far… if we implemented a programme I have no doubt that most of those who work at desks would tell them to bugger off and let them get on with their days work.


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## stevo (3 May 2009)

> we have no workstation assessors and there have been no fatalities so far…


And of course there are no fatalities yet in your organisation from bad posture at PCs. Not for a moment suggesting that there would have been. But, just because there have been no injuries yet, and neither have there been any legal cases yet arising from such injuries is not to say that there will never be such situations in your organisation. 
The advice from HSA, and from any employment law advisors would be that putting a programme of WSA in place would help to prevent such injuries, and provide a defence against such claims. 


> if we implemented a programme I have no doubt that most of those who work at desks would tell them to bugger off and let them get on with their days work.


It is of course at an employee's discretion if they want to avail of the assessment, or to tell the assessor to bugger off... their choice. But, if this is recorded, and the same employee gets injured (e.g. RSI) and tries to sue the employer, the fact that they were offered an assessment and declined to avail of it would go a long way towards getting their case thrown out of court. 


> if a work station assessment (making sure people are sitting at their desk properly) is carried out and the recipient of said assessment refuses to sit at their desk “properly” because they have had bugger all problems for the last 20 years what sanction should be taken against that employee?


Likewise, if they are given all the good advice regarding safe posture etc and they subsequently chose to ignore all the advice, then I doubt any organisation will take sanctions against them. But, those employees can never claim in the future that they did not know how to sit correctly, or that they did not know the importance of taking regular breaks.

You come across as very sceptical about the whole concept of Work Station Assessments Purple. Maybe if you had been through a legal case and saw all the preparation and information that was required to defend such a claim you would realise how seriously it is taken under the eyes of the law.

Steveo's Wife


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## Purple (3 May 2009)

stevo said:


> You come across as very sceptical about the whole concept of Work Station Assessments Purple. Maybe if you had been through a legal case and saw all the preparation and information that was required to defend such a claim you would realise how seriously it is taken under the eyes of the law.
> 
> Steveo's Wife


Yes, I am very cynical about it. My attitude is that you empower your employees and you listen to them. If someone doesn't like their mouse, chair etc they just order a new one. If they were having health problems due to the work they do then we'd talk about it and sort it out (it hasn’t happened but that’s what we’d do). If anyone sees anyone else doing anything that isn't good for them then they talk to them about it.
The business has been in operation for decades and we've never been sued. We have had minor work deleted injuries but as we are lucky enough to have an empowered and motivated workforce. If there’s a problem we treat each other like adults and agree a fair solution that everyone is happy with.

It's simple; everyone treats everyone else with respect. That way the organisation gets the best out of its most important resource and people go home feeling satisfied because they matter. So workstation assessments aren’t high on the agenda because if anyone wants to change their workstation they just change it.

Oh and cynically looking for ways to mitigate our risk of litigation and dressing it up as health and safety isn’t what we’re about. If someone got injured at work the priority would be to make them better not screw them over.


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## stevo (3 May 2009)

Purple - At the beginning of this thread you were completely unfamiliar with the concept of work station assessments, and seemed also to be completely unfamiliar with employment law and indeed H&S legislation... now, a few days later, you seek to imply that you and your business chose not to implement the safety measures that you are required to do by law due to having an "empowered" workforce, and not due to ignorance of the law. Strange that. 

And, for some reason, it comforts you to believe that the organisations who are cognizant of their duty of care to their employees , and who also comply with legislation, are really just pretending to care and really just out to prevent law suits. 

Is it cynical to offer manual handling training to all employees who need it?
(_Sure, they are not 8... they know how to lift a few boxes!)_
Is it cynical to carry out risk assessments of the work environment? 
(_Sure, if there's a problem in the area won't someone point it out?_ )
Is it cynical to offer free eye tests at regular intervals to employees who require it under legislation?
(_Sure, if someone has sore eyes, won't they just tell us about it?_ )

In your eyes, yes, the above would all be cynical acts of self preservation by the employer. But, to any enlightened and knowledgeable employers, the above are basic requirements to ensure compliance with the law. 

Bottom line, it doesn't put me up, down or sideways what you or your organisation do. But, stating that you and your business are making a conscious decision to flagrantly disregard the law just to save yourselves a few bob up front displays far more cynicism to the employee group, not to mention a complete lack of care. 

In your last post you seek to imply that you are in fact totally aware of H&S legislation. But, it's clear from your posts that you are not. Rather than lashing out at me, and any organisations that I've worked for in the last 10 years and telling us that we are cynics for complying with the law, it might be worth spending a few minutes googling the Safety, Health & Welfare at Work Regulations 2007. Regulations 70-73 specifically might be of interest in relation to this topic.

Stevo's Wife


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## Diziet (3 May 2009)

Purple said:


> Yes, I am very cynical about it. My attitude is that you empower your employees and you listen to them. If someone doesn't like their mouse, chair etc they just order a new one. If they were having health problems due to the work they do then we'd talk about it and sort it out (it hasn’t happened but that’s what we’d do). If anyone sees anyone else doing anything that isn't good for them then they talk to them about it.
> The business has been in operation for decades and we've never been sued. We have had minor work deleted injuries but as we are lucky enough to have an empowered and motivated workforce. If there’s a problem we treat each other like adults and agree a fair solution that everyone is happy with.
> 
> It's simple; everyone treats everyone else with respect. That way the organisation gets the best out of its most important resource and people go home feeling satisfied because they matter. So workstation assessments aren’t high on the agenda because if anyone wants to change their workstation they just change it.
> ...



It's not just a matter of not liking their chair, mouse etc or not wanting to sit properly! Nor is it a question of suing the employer necessarily. I would like to relate my own experience of workstation assessment for reference (I am nt and have never remotely considered suing an employer - just to get this out of the way first...)

For a couple of years I suffered from stabbing pains on my shoulders. No amount of physio, exercise (I am healthy and active), relaxation, GP visits, painkillers did anything for any length of time. I looked up stuff on breaks, posture, desk arrangements etc and tried to follow them. My work at the time was desk and PC based. I did not actually raise this with anyone until I talked to the workplace nurse who was also an ergonomics assessor. She came straight over, spent half an hour at my desk adjusting the chair, desk, PC, mouse etc. Pain was gone in a week. She raised my chair by an inch, and that was the key item. I had never managed to get the height quite right and all the good work I did with exercise etc was undone as soon as I sat at my desk.

Was it a workplace injury? Yes, I think it was? Was it my fault? No, I don't see how it could be; I had done all I could. It was not directly the employer's fault either, but fortunately they recognised the importance of ergonomics and their own responsibility for employee well being. Would I have sued my employer? No, of course not. But I was in pain and constant discomfort, and the workstation assessment made a huge difference to me. 

I am very practical by nature and by training, and fairly cynical a lot of the time. But ergonomics assessments are not a gimmick, and pain does affect quality of life. It is a long way from that to litigation, but if the pain can be removed by ensuring a proper working space, surely that's a good thing.


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## Purple (4 May 2009)

Diziet said:


> It's not just a matter of not liking their chair, mouse etc or not wanting to sit properly! Nor is it a question of suing the employer necessarily. I would like to relate my own experience of workstation assessment for reference (I am nt and have never remotely considered suing an employer - just to get this out of the way first...)
> 
> For a couple of years I suffered from stabbing pains on my shoulders. No amount of physio, exercise (I am healthy and active), relaxation, GP visits, painkillers did anything for any length of time. I looked up stuff on breaks, posture, desk arrangements etc and tried to follow them. My work at the time was desk and PC based. I did not actually raise this with anyone until I talked to the workplace nurse who was also an ergonomics assessor. She came straight over, spent half an hour at my desk adjusting the chair, desk, PC, mouse etc. Pain was gone in a week. She raised my chair by an inch, and that was the key item. I had never managed to get the height quite right and all the good work I did with exercise etc was undone as soon as I sat at my desk.
> 
> ...



Yep, this is exactly the sort of situation where help from someone trained in ergonomics is a good idea. My problem is with the notion that this sort of thing is required even if no issues have been raised by any employees.


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## Purple (4 May 2009)

stevo said:


> Purple - At the beginning of this thread you were completely unfamiliar with the concept of work station assessments, and seemed also to be completely unfamiliar with employment law and indeed H&S legislation... now, a few days later, you seek to imply that you and your business chose not to implement the safety measures that you are required to do by law due to having an "empowered" workforce, and not due to ignorance of the law. Strange that.
> 
> And, for some reason, it comforts you to believe that the organisations who are cognizant of their duty of care to their employees , and who also comply with legislation, are really just pretending to care and really just out to prevent law suits.
> 
> ...


You seem, by reading a few posts, to have gained what can only be described as a remarkable insight into me as a person and the organisation in which I spend my working day. If you were anywhere close to correct hearty congratulations would be in order.

Maybe it was comments such as; 
_"putting a programme of WSA in place would help to prevent such injuries, and provide a defence against such claims"_

and 

_"But, if this is recorded, and the same employee gets injured (e.g. RSI) and tries to sue the employer, the fact that they were offered an assessment and declined to avail of it would go a long way towards getting their case thrown out of court."_

Basically almost the entire content of your last post which was exclusively related to how workstation assessments can facilitate ass covering by employers that gave me the impression that you were talking about ass covering by employers. If this was not your intention then perhaps you should not have devoted almost all of your prose to the topic of how this important work can lend itself to ass covering by employers.

I am aware of the legislation in a broad sense (it’s not my core function within the organisation) but basically unless someone says “hay, I’m having a recurring problem because of how I work and I can’t seem to sort it out” it won’t figure large on our radar. God knows there’s a proliferation of health and safety companies and consultants out there so it’s not as if the world and its mother doesn’t have access to experts in the field. Like most things in life common sense should apply.


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## stevo (4 May 2009)

Purple said:


> Yep, this is exactly the sort of situation where help from someone trained in ergonomics is a good idea. My problem is with the notion that this sort of thing is required even if no issues have been raised by any employees.


 
And you see, I would look at Diziet's story differently... I would see that his situation is a perfect example of how a prgramme of WSA would have prevented his injury. What is wrong with that concept? 



> but basically unless someone says “hay, I’m having a recurring problem because of how I work and I can’t seem to sort it out” it won’t figure large on our radar


 
Again, rather than waiting until an employee suffers pain for an extended period of time, why not put systems in place to prevent them suffering the pain in the first place? (Leaving aside completely the fact that legislation requires it) . On a purely human level, surely it's better to prevent the pain, rather than that trying to remedy the pain? 

I really don't see what is so controversial about a basic programme of WSAs, or why someone would react so negatively to them. They are not some hare-brained idea that I came up with... they are widely accepted as Best Practice in the field of H&S, and are widely implemented by enlightened employers.


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## Purple (4 May 2009)

stevo said:


> And you see, I would look at Diziet's story differently... I would see that his situation is a perfect example of how a prgramme of WSA would have prevented his injury. What is wrong with that concept?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 At what stage do we stop implementing programmes to pre-empt things that might happen? Should there be a programme to swap peoples hands after they leave the toilet in order to ensure that they have washed their hands properly so that they do not spread germs? What other programmes should be put in place?
Should there be a programme to keep pencils blunt just in case an employee stuck one in their eye?  
Should employees not have access to hot drinks just in case they burn themselves? Should there be a “how to make a cup of tea” H&S training programme?... is there one and I missed it?


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## Padraigb (4 May 2009)

Purple said:


> At what stage do we stop implementing programmes to pre-empt things that might happen? ...



When the courts take the same position on personal responsibility as you do. So long as lawsuits succeed when your commonsense approach might say that that the claim is unreasonable, then it is wise for people to takes steps to minimise their exposure.


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## Purple (4 May 2009)

Padraigb said:


> When the courts take the same position on personal responsibility as you do. So long as lawsuits succeed when your commonsense approach might say that that the claim is unreasonable, then it is wise for people to takes steps to minimise their exposure.



I agree but you cannot mitigate all risk. It’s a bit like the line that an idiot is the only person who would want to use an idiot proof system.


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## Diziet (4 May 2009)

stevo said:


> And you see, I would look at Diziet's story differently... I would see that his situation is a perfect example of how a prgramme of WSA would have prevented his injury. What is wrong with that concept?



For the record, the company I worked for at the time did have WSA systems in place - we all got training etc and they took it quite seriously. But let's be practical here - you can't pre-empt everything. Half the battle is getting employees to take some responsibility too. I was kicking myself that I did not ask for a full ergonomic assessment earlier (it was, after all, there on offer). I had not realised what a significant difference a seemingly small adjustment would make. So it works both ways I think.


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## Mommah (5 May 2009)

*Re: Repetitive Strain Injury - sue employer?*



ajapale said:


> Would posters refoucus on the OP's original question and continue to abide by the posting guidelines.


 


ajapale said:


> Momah.
> 
> Your interesting contributions have been split off here:
> Does the process of litigation itself encourage disability and compromise recovery?
> ...


 
My interpretation of the OP's question is whether sueing his employer would be a positive move for his career, health etc.

Personally I feel I have not disgressed from that question.(except for the last week when I was away)

If the OP is interested in getting better from a very painful and debilitating condition, the best course of action is to move forward.

In answer to his original question.

Sueing his employer is very likely to make his condition worse.

I absolutely accept everything he says about his condition.

In my considerable experience he will improve and get better if he focuses his energies in the right direction.

Sueing his employer, involving unions etc is using alot of precious energy in less profitable directions for him as an individual.

I'm sure his doctor and physiotherapist would be horrified if they knew their flippant comments sent him off in this direction.

I wish him the very best.


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## gabrieljosh (18 Jun 2009)

Just wanna share this... [broken link removed] can come from many causes. Other factors should also be considered as contributing to stress in all cases. Being overweight or pregnant or having high stress levels in general can certainly take a toll on certain joints. Once you have been diagnosed with repetitive stress injury, all of these factors must be taken into consideration before the most effective course of treatment can be prescribed by your doctor.


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## annet (28 Jun 2009)

The level of understanding of Irish employees in respect to the responsibilities of employers under the Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Act and principles of ergonomics astounds me.  Employers have a statutory duty of care towards all employees.  They have a legal duty to identify potential hazards and conduct risk assessments of the working environment - which includes the work station - has this been done?  Ask for this report and safety statement.  Visit the HSA website and if you are concerned report them to the HSA.


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