# 23, and trying to clear off debts and wipe the slate clean.



## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

*Age:*
23

*Annual gross income from employment or profession:*
€25000

*Type of employment:*
Full-time admin

*Expenditure pattern:*
Not bad...try not to go near shops too much as i'm awful at compulsive buying! If I want something, I find it impossible to wait.

*Rough estimate of value of home*
Renting

*Mortgage on home*
€550 a month, rent.

*Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc*
Personal loan of €1800 with €1290 left to pay - I pay €90 per month Direct Debit.
Credit card with €500 on - I pay 30% a month but usually end up spending it again.
Credit card with €700 on - I pay minimum payment each month.
UK overdraft of £1200 (left over from Uni in UK) - I transfer over €50 a month. This account it a graduate account with 2 years left at 0% interest.

[EDIT: I have applied for a new 0% intrest credit card and plan to transfer the balances of both cards across to this - making it easier to pay off]

*Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?*
No - pay off 30% of balance each month

*Savings and investments:*
None

*Do you have a pension scheme?*
No

*Do you own any investment or other property?*
No

*Ages of children:*
None

*Life insurance:*
No

*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*
I really would like to get my debts all cleared off this year. I constantly have problems with money running out at the end of the month and I usually spend the last week or so with pittance to live off. I know it's bad budgetting but I just want to get my finances in order so I can afford to pay more for rent so I can afford a 1 bed place of my own to rent, rather than living in a house share.

Monthly spending is usually something similar to this:
*Income: 1800*
Rent: 550
UK bank account: 50
Loan: 90
Credit Card 1: 80
Credit Card 2: 100
ESB: 110
Bord Gais: 60
Mobile Phone Credit: 20
Eircom: 30
NTL: 10
Bin Charges: 10
Gym: 75
Dart Pass: 80
Bus: 20

The rest usually goes on food, 3-4 nights out a month (includes cinema/pubs etc), clothes (i'm currently trying to lose weight and keep having to buy new clothes every month as my size decreases. I try to stick to basic, cheap penneys/dunnes clothes as pointless spending money on anything good if it's only going to last me a month or two), and a haircut every 2 months.

Thanks.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Ok, harsh reality. Nights out have to go. Are you renting the place yourself? If so, 110 euro per month on ESB is madness. Are you sure that's not every two months?  You are paying out more than you earn. Nights out I'm sure are costing you at least 50 euro a pop? Cut those out and that's 200 euro. Gym is high, can you not switch to a lower cost gym? 900 euro a year for a gym is way too high. NTL I take it is for broadband? You should get rid of either Eircom or your mobile, having both just doesn't make sense.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Sorry, just checked. You're in a house share and paying 550? You can do way better on rental prices than that. Shop around and you could reduce that by 150+ per month at least.


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## Celtwytch (27 Jan 2009)

One thing that jumped out at me is how much you're paying per month for ESB - that seems far too high for someone living in a shared house.  It might be worth seeing what you can do about that - making sure TVs aren't left on standby, unplugging anything that doesn't need to be permanently plugged in, switching off lights, etc.

Another thing you could do to save money is avail of the taxsaver commuter tickets through your employer.  The way it works is that your employer buys your annual ticket, and you then sacrifice part of our salary each week/fortnight/month to pay for it.  The deduction is made before tax, meaning you don't pay tax on your ticket.  More information here: [broken link removed]

Make sure you have the lowest possible rate on your credit cards.  Transfer to a card that offers a lower rate if needs be (in most cases, you will also get an introductory interest-free period).  Also, you may find it easier to make a weekly payment on your card, rather than struggling to make just the minimum payment.  You may find that you manage to pay a little more than the minimum that way.

Best of luck!


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

Thanks for the quick reply - yes, i'm renting but sharing a house with 3 others. I am looking to move to a cheaper place while I pay all the debts off - but need the initial money there to be able to pay the deposit and 1st months rent on new place. Found the ideal one last month which would have saved me €150 a month in rent, but needed an initial outlay of €800 to do that, which I didn't/don't have.

ESB bills for the last few months have come out at around €160 per person (due to one housemate working from home and so leaving heat on all day long. I HAVE had words...but seems to go in one ear and out the other!) but I anticipate those coming down now the coldest part is hopefully over! 

Eircom etc i'm afraid can't go...i've gone through it with the landlord and the phone line has to stay. None of us use it though so it's just the line rental we pay each month, which does help to keep costs down a bit. 

Gym, i'm tied into until November...I agree it's a lot, but the way I see it, it's worth it for the results i'm seeing.


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## markpb (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee said:


> ESB bills for the last few months have come out at around €160 per person (due to one housemate working from home and so leaving heat on all day long. I HAVE had words...but seems to go in one ear and out the other!) but I anticipate those coming down now the coldest part is hopefully over!



Are you living with friends? If you're not, you need to tell them you'll refuse to pay an equal share of the ESB bill if they abuse it. I share a house with two other adults, one of whole runs the boiler unnecessarily for hours every evening and our ESB bills are between €15 and €35 per person per month. €160 per person is nuts!


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

Celtwytch said:


> Another thing you could do to save money is avail of the taxsaver commuter tickets through your employer. The way it works is that your employer buys your annual ticket, and you then sacrifice part of our salary each week/fortnight/month to pay for it. The deduction is made before tax, meaning you don't pay tax on your ticket. More information here: [broken link removed]


 
I had this last year but the ticket only ever lasted a month or so before it stopped working in the machines. I ended up having to buy a single ticket on top of paying for the annual one just so I could get out of the Dart station if I worked late and missed the rush! Figured i'd save money by just paying for weekly tickets.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

markpb said:


> Are you living with friends? If you're not, you need to tell them you'll refuse to pay an equal share of the ESB bill if they abuse it. I share a house with two other adults, one of whole runs the boiler unnecessarily for hours every evening and our ESB bills are between €15 and €35 per person per month. €160 per person is nuts!


 
No - i'm living with 3 randoms. I did refuse to pay last months bill because it was pushing €190 each. But nobody was willing to pay more to cover my share so I ended up paying it this month so we didn't get more charges put on for late payments.

I do plan to move out on my own as soon as I can afford to. That way i'll be able to regulate bills etc myself. I hate having to pay for other people's habits/annoyances!


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## markpb (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee said:


> I had this last year but the ticket only ever lasted a month or so before it stopped working in the machines. I ended up having to buy a single ticket on top of paying for the annual one just so I could get out of the Dart station if I worked late and missed the rush! Figured i'd save money by just paying for weekly tickets.



It sounds like you're keeping the ticket beside your phone (the magnetic field can destroy the ticket) or with something like keys that are scratching them. Try keeping it in a wallet or the pouch they (sometimes) give out.

If it's a shared bus/train ticket, the old bus readers can damage them. Order your next ticket from DB and you can hold it in front of the reader instead of having to insert it.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

I agree with Mark. €160 is nuts. €640 every two months is just not on, I would pay approximately €360 total per year and that's in a house with 4 sharing too! If that person alone is using all that electricity then they must pay for it themselves. Why should you pay for it when you are not using it. Same goes for the other two in the house, have they not disputed this with the house mate in question?. I would, as Mark said, refuse to pay an equal amount when it is quite clear that they are abusing it. €30 euro per person for line rental seems way too high also. I thought the cost of line rental was less that €30 euro total for a month. I would enquire into that. 

In regards to moving to a new place, surely you would be due back a deposit of €550? That would only leave you needing 250 to make up your €800, maybe you could ask the parents for this, short term? Definitely try switch your balance to a 0% balance transfer offer and work on this weekly to reduce it.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

Hi,
Just as a quick overview of your expenses - the ESB is crazy. Something you may want to check on that - are you being stung for someone elses arrears? Ask to see the most recent bill and check that.

Gym - 75. I understand that you may use the gym and its a great outlet for stress relief, losing weight etc... But for 75 quid a month its too expensive. There is no exercise that you cant do for free with a bit of imagination. You can make weights with bags of sand, you can run outdoors instead of using a treadmill, similiar for cycling. In fact, you could probably join a free hillwalking group or similiar for all over workout once a week anyway.
Think like Rocky in Rocky 4 - run up and down hills outdoors with tins of beans in your hands. Gym is a luxury - you dont need it, you can stay fit and exercise for free.

On that subject - could you get a second hand bike (probably for the cost of one months gym) and cycle to work and some social events? That way you get the cardio in, and you dont pay on the DART, bus, taxis etc....?

3/4 nights out a month - way too much. 1 night out a month - and other than that cheap socialising, go out and dont drink, go to a friends house and watch a dvd.

Food - shop as cheap as you can in Aldi, Lidl, and special offers, cook batches of stuff and freeze portions.

Haircuts - ask a friend to give you trims for free - if youre a man find a friend with a blade machine, if your a woman just get a pal with a steady hand to trim the split ends.

Im a woman and I get my OH to trim my split ends with his blade machine, works a treat, saves a fortune.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> In regards to moving to a new place, surely you would be due back a deposit of €550? That would only leave you needing 250 to make up your €800, maybe you could ask the parents for this, short term? Definitely try switch your balance to a 0% balance transfer offer and work on this weekly to reduce it.


 
I wouldn't get the deposit back until after i've moved out, though...so fair enough i'm not out of pocket at all in the long run. Initially, though, i'd still need to pay my 550 rent on the current place, the 400 deposit on the new place and the 400 1st months rent on the new place. Then i'd get the 550 back. But I'd still need to find that 800 to start with! Do you see what I mean?

Parents - unfortunately are a no-no. They can't afford to give me a dig out.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Hi,
> Just as a quick overview of your expenses - the ESB is crazy. Something you may want to check on that - are you being stung for someone elses arrears? Ask to see the most recent bill and check that.
> 
> Gym - 75. I understand that you may use the gym and its a great outlet for stress relief, losing weight etc... But for 75 quid a month its too expensive. There is no exercise that you cant do for free with a bit of imagination. You can make weights with bags of sand, you can run outdoors instead of using a treadmill, similiar for cycling. In fact, you could probably join a free hillwalking group or similiar for all over workout once a week anyway.
> ...


 
I'm tied into the gym until November...so unfortunately that isn't an option to get rid of. But I personally feel, since I go 4-5 times a week, that it's a worthwhile expense. But I do see what you mean about the free exercise. And come November, that's exactly what i'll be doing.

3/4 nights out a month include cinema/dvd's/meeting a friend down the pub and usually one proper night out. But I could probs get rid of a few of the nights out a month - every little helps, right?!

All good suggestions  Thanks.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee said:


> I wouldn't get the deposit back until after i've moved out, though...so fair enough i'm not out of pocket at all in the long run. Initially, though, i'd still need to pay my 550 rent on the current place, the 400 deposit on the new place and the 400 1st months rent on the new place. Then i'd get the 550 back. But I'd still need to find that 800 to start with! Do you see what I mean?
> 
> Parents - unfortunately are a no-no. They can't afford to give me a dig out.



Did you pay a month's rent in advance?


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## limerick123 (27 Jan 2009)

esb is mad. dont pay anymore of this. if they have a problem then bring in the landlord. i have a big house and its about 120 per two months in total, and that includes having an electric fire on most evenings.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> Did you pay a month's rent in advance?


 
I paid my deposit of 550 and then the first months rent of 550. So won't get the 550 deposit back until the new person moves in, which won't be until i've moved out!


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

limerick123 said:


> esb is mad. dont pay anymore of this. if they have a problem then bring in the landlord. i have a big house and its about 120 per two months in total, and that includes having an electric fire on most evenings.


 
I'll definately look into this ESB stuff so. I didn't realise it was any more expensive than it should have been. We've an electrician and plumber coming in sometime this week to sort out radiators and hot water for us so will have a word then.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee said:


> I'll definately look into this ESB stuff so. I didn't realise it was any more expensive than it should have been. We've an electrician and plumber coming in sometime this week to sort out radiators and hot water for us so will have a word then.


 
Ask to physically see the paper copy of the electricity bill. I strongly suspect you are paying someones elses arrears. ESB should only be costing you 50 or 60 quid a month.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee said:


> I paid my deposit of 550 and then the first months rent of 550. So won't get the 550 deposit back until the new person moves in, which won't be until i've moved out!



Ok, put it like this then. Say you decide to move out March 1st. So you pay your last rent on February 1st. You now have until March 1st, without anymore rent. Save your 550 though, as if you were getting ready to pay rent March 1st. So you have the 550 in hand. The day you are moving out, is the day the new person is moving in so as you're heading out the door, you get the 550 in your hand, you now have 1100 in hand. Your new deposit and month's rent is covered. Does that make sense to you?


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

should only be 60 euro every two months in all honesty, truthseeker. I share with three others and our last bill was 249 for two months.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Ask to physically see the paper copy of the electricity bill. I strongly suspect you are paying someones elses arrears. ESB should only be costing you 50 or 60 quid a month.


 
We see the physical copy each month. Bills come to our address, we pin it on fridge, quarter the total and mark off when we've each paid our quarter. Then it gets filed away in drawer. We're definately only paying for us...it's just a big, cold house!


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## BoscoTalking (27 Jan 2009)

i agree but that usually is against the landlord and he/she won't let that happen and neither will the others in the house who will be out of pocket if its a bad landlord.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> Ok, put it like this then. Say you decide to move out March 1st. So you pay your last rent on February 1st. You now have until March 1st, without anymore rent. Save your 550 though, as if you were getting ready to pay rent March 1st. So you have the 550 in hand. The day you are moving out, is the day the new person is moving in so as you're heading out the door, you get the 550 in your hand, you now have 1100 in hand. Your new deposit and month's rent is covered. Does that make sense to you?


 
Not really... because I would have to pay out the new deposit and rent before moving in. They usually ask for it to secure it. So i'd have to pay that out in Feb before moving out, along with the 550 rent for Feb. So i'd be out of pocket for a month. I'd get it all back, the next month, granted. But i'd still need it available in the first place!


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Really? I didn't pay my deposit and month's rent until the day I moved in. I'm sure if you asked, they might accommodate you on it.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> should only be 60 euro every two months in all honesty, truthseeker. I share with three others and our last bill was 249 for two months.


 
Youre dead right PaddyW - I forgot about the number of people in the place.

Lilee - you say its a big cold house - if youre not heating it by gas then what the hell is the 60 a month gas bill for - you couldnt possibly be using that amount just for cooking.

If no one is using the eircom and its just line rental then why not just stand together and refuse to pay it.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> Really? I didn't pay my deposit and month's rent until the day I moved in. I'm sure if you asked, they might accommodate you on it.


 
It's worth a shot, I guess! But yeah - i've lived in 4 places over here and always had to pay the deposit and rent in advance.


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2009)

You can cut off the phone line and agree to pay the reconnection charge so the landlord is not out of pocket.  In any case I don't understand why the landlord wants to keep it connected other than this and the new tenants in any case could pay the reconnection charge.  

If your ESB bill an estimate?  Did you yourself check the meter when you moved in.

Contrary to the others viewpoint I would stick with the gym if you are losing weight and it is working for you.  
You say you are switching to a 0% credit card, why do you have two cards?  In any case a spendaholic should cut up her credit cards to prevent impulse buys and have no cash or bank card when shopping.  You will have to re educate yourself in relation to impulse buys or you will regret it in later years.  Best of luck.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee - on the figures you posted, the bi-monthly bills for ESB come to 880 euro and for Gas come to 480 euro.

There is something seriously wrong with this.


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Youre dead right PaddyW - I forgot about the number of people in the place.
> 
> Lilee - you say its a big cold house - if youre not heating it by gas then what the hell is the 60 a month gas bill for - you couldnt possibly be using that amount just for cooking.
> 
> If no one is using the eircom and its just line rental then why not just stand together and refuse to pay it.


 
I'll defo get onto the electrician/plumber about the high bills when they're in...like I say, I didn't realise the bills were higher than they should be until now!

I don't know quite what the gas bill counts for...since I don't even think we have a gas cooker. I know the hob part is defo electric, anyway. I think possibly the showers run from the gas? There are 2 en-suites and 1 main bathroom and I think mine in the attic room is pumped up from the 2nd floor bathroom. I know it's an additional add-on to the plumping, and runs differently to the others. Ah I don't know! No idea what the gas bill includes.

Eircom I think includes the broadband for the house. We were looking at getting rid of the telephone part of it and just keeping the broadband but the landlord said no. That the phone is how she contacts us in the house. We offered to give her mobile numbers but no...she needs the phone to be kept. We


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Lilee - on the figures you posted, the bi-monthly bills for ESB come to 880 euro and for Gas come to 480 euro.
> 
> There is something seriously wrong with this.


 
Yeah that's about right. That's only from the last few months bills...when I moved in last July the bills were much cheaper. But then the heat wasn't on much (if at all) then. So i'd anticipate they'll be coming down from this point on, anyway, as it gets warmer.


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## pinkie123 (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee, are you writing down everything you spend in a month - i.e. beauty products, clothes, shoes etc. you must live within your means and if your friends can afford the expensive stuff don't try to copy them just to keep up with them if you know what I mean.....


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

Bronte said:


> You say you are switching to a 0% credit card, why do you have two cards? In any case a spendaholic should cut up her credit cards to prevent impulse buys and have no cash or bank card when shopping. You will have to re educate yourself in relation to impulse buys or you will regret it in later years. Best of luck.


 
I'd one from when I first moved over here that I no longer have the card for (the €700, one) that i'm just working on clearing off, and the €500 one I got late last year for ongoing medical expences I was needing to pay for. Ended up paying off more than I could afford, though, and needing to dip into it again. Became a bit of a sipral! 

I agree with re-education though. I find if I just don't go shopping, I don't miss it! And if I DO need to go shopping, only go into those shops that I need, and not to go with a friend! Bad influences!


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

If the landlord insists on having the phone line, then let her pay for it. Check out if it says anything about the phone line in your lease?


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## Lilee (27 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> If the landlord insists on having the phone line, then let her pay for it. Check out if it says anything about the phone line in your lease?


 
There is no lease. It's all done on good faith. Never even met the landlord! 

I think if I can just get the main ESB bill down and save back the money I save from that for a month or two and just REEALLY watch my spending for a month, i'll be able to afford a deposit and rent on a cheaper place so I can move out and forget about all the hassle with expensive/silly bills in this place!


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

I'd still refuse to pay so much for heating and leccy, especially if you're not using it that much. 

But best of luck with everything


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

Just checked out our gas bill too Lilee,between 4 of us it was €188.00 for two months. So, it looks to me that the person who is working from home is leaving the gas on all day, as well as every other appliance in the house and maybe allowing the neighbours to hook up to your electricity as well. That really is absolutely scandalous.


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee did you read the meters for the Gas and ESB when you started renting, are the bills estimates?  I don't understand how you don't know what the gas is used for.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2009)

Lilee - for the immediate situation, go home today and ask the other people you live with (or ring the landlord):
What does the electricity cover? Does it include heat? Shower pumps? Any commercial appliances running off it?
What does the gas cover - are you cooking by gas? Heating something by gas?

For the future, dont sign up to renting without a lease. Id imagine your landlord is not registered either in that case. You need to protect yourself and renting on 'good faith' while being forced to pay for a landline that no one uses and cover someone elses heating bills is not protecting yourself.

The bills you are quoting for esb and gas are astronomical - and you need to find out why. You could save yourself a fortune per month if you moved elsewhere and paid lower rent and normal bills.

In short - you are being totally ripped off.


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## PaddyW (27 Jan 2009)

That just reminded me, are you claiming your rent allowance?


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## Lilee (28 Jan 2009)

Sorry guys - I went home and spoke with housemates last night - i'd got the bills round the wrong way! It was the Bord Gais that is the high one - ESB is the lower one. The gas runs the heating and two of the showers. One of them is electric. 

PaddyW - yeah, i'm claming the rent allowance.


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## PaddyW (28 Jan 2009)

That's ok then. 
Re the gas and the electricity, regardless of which runs which, the amounts are scandalous.  I know you probably don't want to rock the boat, but I would refuse to pay those prices.


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## truthseeker (28 Jan 2009)

Its the gas bills that are scandalous. Thats because one person is running the heating all day. Nice that someone can choose to work from home and make the other 3 housemates pay for his heating costs?
I dont understand why you would let this go on.


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## hardtimes09 (28 Jan 2009)

I can't believe how high your gas and esb bills are....I have never had gas so can't really comment but live in a fairly large house with my husband and 3 kids, got our esb bill last week for 2 months it was 297....very high but it included christmas and as i had 12 for christmas dinner and oven was on fro 10 hours christmas eve and chritmas day i understand why....yours is crazy!  I wonder where your landlord lives....could it be next door are you paying her gas and esb as well....this happened in my estate when houses were first built, one neighbour was somehow tied to the other and ended up with huge bills it was sorted but could this be happening to you?


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## dereko1969 (28 Jan 2009)

you mentioned ongoing medical bills have you sent in your med1 to revenue yet? could be worth a bit to you.
i think the rest of you are mad to be agreeing to split equally the gas bills for someone that has no transport expenses - if they are self-employed they may be able to claim back some of their bills - and sits at home all day, it's very unfair.


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## Pope John 11 (28 Jan 2009)

PaddyW said:


> ..........but I would refuse to pay those prices.


 
Lillee....you got to find out why your bills are so high to build up a case to justify the above quote.


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## dub_nerd (28 Jan 2009)

If one person is working at home with the heating on, is the entire house being heated? You only need to heat the part of the house that is occupied, presumably one or two rooms. Depending on how your heating is controlled this may require some effort -- but at worst it means going around turning off radiators each morning and back on in the evening when the house is occupied. You may be able to save a large portion of your heating bill this way.


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## PaddyW (28 Jan 2009)

But still, it is unfair that the other house mates should have to stump up for gas, that is being used for the times when they are out of the house. I wouldn't keep the gas on all day to keep myself warm and then expect the others to pay for it, that's just wrong.

Can your work from home friend not put on some extra jumpers, hoodie etc. to keep warm? Or at the very, very least turn the temperature on your heating down a few degrees to try save some money. I would have thought between say 15-18C would be a sufficient temperature.


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## dub_nerd (28 Jan 2009)

True, it's still unfair, but if they at least only heat the room they're in as opposed to the whole Irish troposphere it would be a little _less_ unfair.


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