# Prime Time: Trevor Sargent - Greener than green?



## bacchus (17 May 2007)

What did Trevor Sargent had written on the palm of his left hand last night during Prime Time?

Is he so green to the point of not even using recycled paper for notes? or may be does he intend going back to college? or was he cheating?


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## Caveat (17 May 2007)

noticed that too

Maybe it was a reminder to challenge McDowell at every available opportunity...thought Trev came accross fairly well - a bit more 'ballsy' than you would expect.  Pat's always good at these things but McDowell just radiated elitism and pompousness and I would reckon that in basic personality terms, to the general public, he's just so _unlikeable._

He did however deliver a killer blow to Gerry Adams re drugs/columbia 3 etc  

Missed the rest -  did Gerry recover?


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

I thought McDowell was far ahead of the others in the debate. Surprised at Pat Rabbitte, usually he is much better. I agree McDowell came across as argumentative- however at least he was showing a bit of passion. Sargent was only ok. This reminded me of why I used to admire McDowell for his attacks on Sin Fein. He's also fairly witty- loved that line ' I'm surrounded by the left, the far left and the left overs'. He was the clear winner for me.

No I don't think Gerry Adams recovered- he did the usual deflection to the peace process and for good measure threw in a bit at the end about suicide but the arrows had hit home.


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## michaelm (17 May 2007)

Caveat said:


> Missed the rest -  did Gerry recover?


Not at all.  Adams performed very poorly, Rabbitte was the clear winner on the night by a country mile (and I have no love for Labour).  McDowell was like a cornered animal.  I was unconvinced by Trevor; I was embarrassed for him re the notes on his hand.  I don't suppose many people watched it.


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## Glenbhoy (17 May 2007)

I was starting to feel sorry for McDowell he was so poor.  Sargent was very good, Rabbitte next, Adams probably shaded 3rd from McDowell, though he's not very well up on the issues.


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## Welfarite (17 May 2007)

Have to admit I didn't see it adn am sorry now. From what I've heard, it sounds like it matched my pre-concieved image of the Four Horsemen:

Mick the Mauler: snarling and snapping in the corner
Trevor: green by name, green (as in naive) by nature
Rabitte: snug to the point of content, knowing he had little to do except hand out the shovels for the rest to dig holes for themselves
Adams: Apathetic to anything other than a United Ireland, with no plan as to what to do with the country if he got his hands on it.


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

Actually what I thought was more of a killer blow for Adams was when he was saying that he and his fellow members of Sin Fein take only the average industrial wage etc and Mc Dowell pointed out that for someone with holiday homes in Donegal and somewhere else ( I can't remember) he was doing very well on the average industrial wage- it's fairly obvious, to me at least, that Gerry Adams isn't living on just his 'average industrial wage' and I admire McDowell for having the guts to stand up and say it. 

I heard a few commentators this morning saying Rabbitte was 'smug' but I didn't see that. I just thought he was ineffectual last night- he made one wisecrack at McDowell calling him a 'menopausal paris hilton' but for me it didn't hit home at all.


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## nelly (17 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Actually what I thought was more of a killer blow for Adams was when he was saying that he and his fellow members of Sin Fein take only the average industrial wage etc and Mc Dowell pointed out that for someone with holiday homes in Donegal and somewhere else ( I can't remember) he was doing very well on the average industrial wage- it's fairly obvious, to me at least, that Gerry Adams isn't living on just his 'average industrial wage' and I admire McDowell for having the guts to stand up and say it.



Adams - sure the bank owned those houses, 
Mcd - Thats the Northern Bank perhaps? 
  nice one


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

LOL. When McDowell is good, he's very, very good. Unfortunately when he's bad...


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## Firefly (17 May 2007)

I thought the Rottweiler pulled up Gerry really well on the economy when gerry went of on a million tangents to avoid the answer! I thought Searant was quite good but when I saw the notes (and there were many) on his hand I had to laugh....at least use beermats man!

Overall I thought the Rottweiler won as he proved the others hadn;t a clue how to build an economy - sure anyone can spend it!!

Really looking forward to tonight...wonder will they remain all nicey-nicey or will we see some personal attacks!!! Time to book the chinese and open some vino!

Firefly.


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## nelly (17 May 2007)

anyone find the management of discussions is very poor - Hobbs and Cooper, Miriam O'C, etc etc are rubbish at managing the squabbling. its not proper debate. If it starts tonight i will switch off.


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## Welfarite (17 May 2007)

Yes, I agree. debate on radio is far better, I think, as the facilitator/presenter has to intervene in order to ensure the listener does not switch off when two people try to shout each other down.


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## Glenbhoy (17 May 2007)

nelly said:


> Adams - sure the bank owned those houses,
> Mcd - Thats the Northern Bank perhaps?
> nice one


He said 'Northern Ireland' bank - doesn't exist afaik - as there have been no convictions re the crime that I imagine you're referring to, I can't believe I'm being forced to stand up for SF!!



> Actually what I thought was more of a killer blow for Adams was when he was saying that he and his fellow members of Sin Fein take only the average industrial wage etc and Mc Dowell pointed out that for someone with holiday homes in Donegal and somewhere else ( I can't remember) he was doing very well on the average industrial wage- it's fairly obvious, to me at least, that Gerry Adams isn't living on just his 'average industrial wage' and I admire McDowell for having the guts to stand up and say it.


Adams is a published novellist, presumably he made a few pound on that, he never said that his only source of income was his MP/MLA salary, can nobody else see how pathetic McDowell was yesterday or is it just me??


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## Ham Slicer (17 May 2007)

Welfarite said:


> Yes, I agree. debate on radio is far better, I think, as the facilitator/presenter has to intervene in order to ensure the listener does not switch off when two people try to shout each other down.



I've only tuned in twice to different debates in the past week and both were shouting matches.  Miriam lost total control of Willie O'Dea and Brian Hayes the other night with Willie being the main culprit.  She told them at one stage they were like two school boys.  The shouting continued before I turned it off.

I also find that unlike US and UK debates that both sides and especially, IMO, FF seem to make facts up and run with them.  The other side is then shot down when trying to respond so the viewer is left none the wiser.

Still not sure who's getting my vote.  Maybe tonight might seal the deal.


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> Adams is a published novellist, presumably he made a few pound on that, he never said that his only source of income was his MP/MLA salary, can nobody else see how pathetic McDowell was yesterday or is it just me??


 

Adams said that he and his other party members were taking only the average industrial wage- the implication being that he was subsisting on this. I have no idea what other income streams the man might have- apart from the illegal possibilities- he could have inherited wealth, could have won the lotto. However if he is going to try to act the common man by mention of the average industrial wage then he must take the inevitable rebuttals on the chin. Personally I thought Adams was pathetic, not McDowell.


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## z108 (17 May 2007)

It sounds interesting. Normally politics puts me totally to sleep. Some of the quips quoted above are funny and its on again ? with all 4 of them ?

I missed the first one , is it online somewhere ?


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## demoivre (17 May 2007)

sign said:


> It sounds interesting. Normally politics puts me totally to sleep. Some of the quips quoted above are funny and its on again ? with all 4 of them ?
> 
> I missed the first one , is it online somewhere ?



RTE have it online. There's only the one though -  Bertie v's Enda tonight.


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## Glenbhoy (17 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Adams said that he and his other party members were taking only the average industrial wage- the implication being that he was subsisting on this. I have no idea what other income streams the man might have- apart from the illegal possibilities- he could have inherited wealth, could have won the lotto. However if he is going to try to act the common man by mention of the average industrial wage then he must take the inevitable rebuttals on the chin. Personally I thought Adams was pathetic, not McDowell.


Well, perhaps if you'd read my post you would have an idea as to what other sources of income he has, why did you feel the need to include the phrase "apart from the illegal possibilities", perhaps you'd like to give us some more detail?
When he and every Sinn Fein representative mention that they take only the average industrial wage from their MLA/TD/MP/MEP salary, that is presumably a fact, that does not imo imply that they subsist on this money only - why would it??
I thought McDowell was pathetic in that he seemed to be incapable of anything other than throwing cheap shots at the others, he was like a naughty schoolboy, I thought Adams did not have a good understanding of the issues that are important to people in the south, and really SF would have been better served with O'Caolain representing them.


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## Caveat (17 May 2007)

No, not on again sign AFAIK - just Enda V Bertie tonight.

Which should interesting - I think Enda has improved a lot during this campaign and if all Bertie has is his 'ah sure' blokeish common man approach he could find himself embarassed by, gulp, Enda Kenny

Thought McD's comments on Northern Bank/wealth etc were a bit petty even if they were justified.  It just comes accross as bitter and unconstructive.  I'm no fan of either man but Adams should be taken to task more often - more so on being evasive than anything else. He has this knack of belittling preceeding discussions and steering the topic by saying ' ok then, let's _have_ a debate' psychologically, the implication is that no previous contributions were 'a debate'... but then he just offers a vague, idealogical position on everything... don't know how everyone can't see through this and Bertie's approach


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> Well, perhaps if you'd read my post you would have an idea as to what other sources of income he has, why did you feel the need to include the phrase "apart from the illegal possibilities", perhaps you'd like to give us some more detail?
> When he and every Sinn Fein representative mention that they take only the average industrial wage from their MLA/TD/MP/MEP salary, that is presumably a fact, that does not imo imply that they subsist on this money only - why would it??


 
Are you telling me that you don't believe for one minute that Sinn Fein/ the IRA has not been involved in drug running, protection rackets, bank raids, arm sales, sales of terrorist training? That's my personal belief. No I can't prove it. Doesn't alter the belief though. That's why I admire McDowell for having the courage to point the finger at Adams and his like.

I believe that Adams mentions taking only the industrial wage deliberately to give the impression that this is his only income, yes.


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## z108 (17 May 2007)

Thanks . I found it on the RTE homepage  

Im hoping for a punch up in the next one


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## Glenbhoy (17 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Are you telling me that you don't believe for one minute that Sinn Fein/ the IRA has not been involved in drug running, protection rackets, bank raids, arm sales, sales of terrorist training? That's my personal belief. No I can't prove it. Doesn't alter the belief though. That's why I admire McDowell for having the courage to point the finger at Adams and his like.
> 
> I believe that Adams mentions taking only the industrial wage deliberately to give the impression that this is his only income, yes.


Firstly, there is a difference in SF and the IRA - just because Paisley came up with the phrase SF/IRA doesn't make it true, or maybe you think that Mary Lou has been running guns too?
The IRA have been involved in:
- protection
- bank raids
- arms sales - I doubt it - would they not normally be the purchasers??
- sale of terrorist training - that I don't know, it's a hard one to figure out  probably helping out, but sales - i don't know - nor do any of us, nor does McDowell, he'd have leaked any info he had on that (national security of course).
- Drugs, I'd be shocked, seriously.

Now, you should also note that the IRA are no longer active, this has been confirmed by all and sundry, maybe not McDowell, but then it wouldn't suit his strategy of making SF unelectable (and thus ensuring that SF cannot be coalition partners for FF, seems to have failed), to state that the IRA have disbanded.

Let me add that I have never, and cannot see a time when I would ever vote SF, but that's not to say I don't respect Adams, I just don't think he or his party has the necessary skills or knowledge required to run a country - i know that hasn't stopped Bertie, actually on second thoughts, maybe I will vote SF


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## ang1170 (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> I thought Adams did not have a good understanding of the issues that are important to people in the south, and really SF would have been better served with O'Caolain representing them.


 
You've clearly never heard O'Caolain speak.....


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

Sinn Fein is just the political wing of the IRA or was. And Gerry Adams will not deny that he was the leader of the Army Council of the IRA. Sorry, I'm wrong- I think he DID deny it? But in any case, I don't believe that denial.

Many people have the mistaken belief that the IRA were not involved in drug running because of the many reports that the IRA were so anti-drugs- carrying out attacks on drug pushers etc. But in fact I believe that they carried out attacks on those who were not part of the approved drug runs- they offered protection to certain pushers- 'former' IRA member/soldiers got into the racket themselves. I'm not the only one who believes this.

In any case if you only believe the IRA ( and not Sinn Fein) were involved in protection rackets and bank raids and the consequent money laundering, then where did the money go? To buy arms only? To mount their terrorist campaign only? 

Enough reason for me to love to see McDowells impassioned stance against Adams/ IRA/ Sinn Fein.


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## room305 (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> Well, perhaps if you'd read my post you would have an idea as to what other sources of income he has, why did you feel the need to include the phrase "apart from the illegal possibilities", perhaps you'd like to give us some more detail?



- Diesel smuggling
- Extortion
- Racketeering
- Protection
- Bank robbery
- Terrorist training
- Bootlegging

Given Adams' past the possibilities are surely limitless?


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## Squire (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> When he and every Sinn Fein representative mention that they take only the average industrial wage from their MLA/TD/MP/MEP salary, that is presumably a fact, that does not imo imply that they subsist on this money only - why would it??


 
He didn't say that they take the AIW from their political salary. What he said was that they "draw" the AIW which would give the impression that their maximum income from ALL sources is the AIW which is not true. He tried to come across as the average Joe but McDowell pulled him up and made a show of him.

I'm no fan of McDowell but I was very surprised to see that Adams was no match for him.

Rabbitte just sat back and let them damage each other, occasionly jumping in with well rehersed put downs primarily directed at McDowell. I would have thought that his target should have been Adams as any swing vote that Labour get would be more likely to come from SF voters than PD voters.

Entertaining viewing none the less. Mark Little was very poor and I thought Mirium should have done this one as it was clearly going to be more difficult to control than tonights prospective borefest.


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## demoivre (17 May 2007)

Squire said:


> I'm no fan of McDowell but I was very surprised to see that Adams was no match for him.



I wasn't. Adams ,Kelly, McGuiness, McLaughlin etc. are competent and well versed when it comes to the North but are clueless when it comes to economics for the South. Intellectual lightweights like McDonald ( incredible waffler ) , Ferris, Ó Snodaigh and Morgan can't hold their own either in any economics related debate imo. Still that won't matter to many potential Sinn Fein Voters - stick any  candidate up as a Shinner and provided he/she can can drink ten pints on a Saturday night, bellow out " Follow me up to Carlow " at the end of the night, he/she will still get votes from certain elements of society .


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## Vanilla (17 May 2007)

I would love to see Enda Kenny wipe the floor with Bertie Ahern tonight. I find it so incredibly frustrating that so many people seem to think what Bertie has done is ok.I wouldn't mind if FF were reelected if:

1. Bertie was no longer leader.
2. They didn't do so in a coalition with Sinn Fein- I know this is unlikely for now at least.

But if Bertie is to remain leader then I'll be voting FG/Labour in the hope that Labour are sufficiently centred now not to increase taxes wildly.


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## Squire (17 May 2007)

demoivre said:


> I wasn't. Adams ,Kelly, McGuiness, McLaughlin etc. are competent and well versed when it comes to the North but are clueless when it comes to economics for the South. Intellectual lightweights like McDonald ( incredible waffler ) , Ferris, Ó Snodaigh and Morgan can't hold their own either in any economics related debate imo. Still that won't matter to many potential Sinn Fein Voters - stick any candidate up as a Shinner and provided he/she can can drink ten pints on a Saturday night, bellow out " Follow me up to Carlow " at the end of the night, he/she will still get votes from certain elements of society .


 
Couldn't agree more. It is just that in all of the years watching Adams debating, last night was the first time I've seen him totally dominated. He is an expert at controlling those type of debates but McDowell had his card marked and was ready for him. It just goes to show (a) how badly prepared Adams was (b) how little he knows about the South. Either way not good from a SF prospective.

Interestingly, McDowell was playing into Labours hands by discrediting SF so it was a bit of a pointless exercise on his behalf. Maybe he is not as smart as he likes to think?


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## Firefly (17 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> Now, you should also note that the IRA are no longer active, this has been confirmed by all and sundry


 
Bit early for the Friday joke aren't we


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## 892896 (17 May 2007)

MMD's comment was class- we've got the left, further left and then pointing to Trevor Sargant, 'the left overs' !!


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## HotdogsFolks (17 May 2007)

Does anyone know anyone in SF (who doesn't appear on TV) who wouldn't be considered "a bit of a scumbag" ?

I know a few. Not nice people.


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## GeneralZod (17 May 2007)

At one stage Trevor made a throwaway remark about getting back to the issues and Adams almost gave himself a hernia with a squeal of the personally offended. He seemed to think Trevor was implying he was less Irish than the rest of them.   Got a laugh out of that.

The rottweiler did well on the night. He was aggressive but the rest of them were concentrating their attacks on him.


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## nelly (18 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> - Drugs, I'd be shocked, seriously.


You would be seriously shocked? have a pint with any inner city detective and you would get your answer as to whether the Sinners are up to any of this and I would be surprised if he/she would not back up everything Paul Reynolds has said openly and written in the last number of years. 
prepare to be shocked.


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## z108 (18 May 2007)

I'd prefer to be positive and look where SF are going now. Because it has taken so long to achieve a working democratic assembly in the North its even more important to be positive and embrace them into the democratic fold.  Every organisation of people has a few bad apples  and our society has certainly produced them alongside the good ones in the church (child care scandals and cover ups) , politics (haughey & associates) , medicine (unnecessary hysterectomys) . The list sadly is very long.
The past was a very different place and as far as I can tell when McDowell was eating cream cakes in  Dublin 4 , Catholics were excluded from  equal access to free speech, housing and jobs et al. 
As far as drugs go, a simple lithmus test is as follows:
The people and the communities who Adams represents who put him where he is today do not support drug dealing so why would he or the IRA support it ? The reality is he doesnt . It would completely throw away everything he has worked for all these years.

Exactly how many members of SF have ever been caught with Drugs ? I cant think of one. have there been any ? (Bear in mind I read the newspapers intermittently and go through phases when I learn something and other times when I dont which I freely admit so I may not be aware of any cases)  . Plenty of politicians and their friends have . Brian Cowen the finance minister admits to having smoked spamspamspam and lets not talk about a well known friend of Haugheys  and cocaine abuse in Florida. What about the drunk driving minister for health ? For all of these things Im not judging anyone but simply making a point.
I'd like to see some objective facts properly sourced  and dispassionaterly presented.
If it can be proven then fair enough but wheres the proof ?

Victims need to forgive each other and move on however hard that is only they can know, I would have a serious problem with their economic policies because I think like all left wing parties they would give all the money away and leave us all with a hangover but to be honest Adams sounds very inclusive, forward looking and sane every time I hear him speak despite a constant slagging by opponents and journalists. It would be so easy for him to be as bitter and twisted as the rest of those who oppose the goood friday agreements implementation. As long as all involved stick to a war of 'words' things  can only improve.


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## room305 (18 May 2007)

sign said:


> Brian Cowen the finance misnister admits to having smoked spamspamspam ...



I don't think you can compare Biffo having a few tokes on a spliff in the seventies (I respect him for having the honesty to admit it) with the drug dealer protection racket operated by the PIRA.


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## z108 (18 May 2007)

room305 said:


> I don't think you can compare Biffo having a few tokes on a spliff in the seventies (I respect him for having the honesty to admit it) with the drug dealer protection racket operated by the PIRA.



I didnt make a comparison and Im certainly not judging Biffo for this . I asked which members of Sinn fein have been caught with drugs ?  and to be completely fair also which members of other parties ?


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## Glenbhoy (18 May 2007)

posted in error


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## Glenbhoy (18 May 2007)

nelly said:


> You would be seriously shocked? have a pint with any inner city detective and you would get your answer as to whether the Sinners are up to any of this and I would be surprised if he/she would not back up everything Paul Reynolds has said openly and written in the last number of years.
> prepare to be shocked.


I don't believe it for one minute - if it were true, why, would sinn fein's core vote come from inner city area's?? Do you feel you've got a better handle on what goes on on the ground in these area's than the mothers and fathers there?
The same goes for NI, do you think that SF would have attracted approx 60% of the vote from the nationalist community if people thought for one minute that the IRA were involved in drugs?  Or are their voters just stupid?


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## Imperator (18 May 2007)

A previous poster mentioned reports by Paul Reynolds. If I'm not mistaken, Paul Reynolds is the RTE Crime Correspondent. Paul *Williams* is the Sunday World Crime Correspondent who has on a number of occasions listed, in some detail if I may say so, the activities of various gangs. He also describes links between 'straightforward' criminals and the IRA. Such links were highlighted by Paul Williams on Liveline and the radio interview can be heard on the Sunday World website.

Glenbhoy has put forward two positions: he does not believe allegations of crime on the part of Sinn Fein, and if the crimes occurred, why do Sinn Fein receive votes?

Glebhoy, Paul Williams is, I believe, an honest reporter. He has frequently stated he is not a member of a political party, and I understand from listening to him on the occassional radio show he has regularly argued with various Ministers for Justice.  It may (or may not) be worthwhile scepticism not to believe everything Micahel McDowell says - but do you believe Paul Williams?


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## Caveat (18 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> I don't believe it for one minute - if it were true, why, would sinn fein's core vote come from inner city area's??


 
Could it have anything to do with a traditionally higher crime rate in these areas and the suggestion of a particular brand of 'justice' from certain quarters?


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## z108 (19 May 2007)

Imperator said:


> A previous poster mentioned reports by Paul Reynolds. If I'm not mistaken, Paul Reynolds is the RTE Crime Correspondent. Paul *Williams* is the Sunday World Crime Correspondent who has on a number of occasions listed, in some detail if I may say so, the activities of various gangs. He also describes links between 'straightforward' criminals and the IRA. Such links were highlighted by Paul Williams on Liveline and the radio interview can be heard on the Sunday World website.
> 
> Glenbhoy has put forward two positions: he does not believe allegations of crime on the part of Sinn Fein, and if the crimes occurred, why do Sinn Fein receive votes?
> 
> Glebhoy, Paul Williams is, I believe, an honest reporter. He has frequently stated he is not a member of a political party, and I understand from listening to him on the occassional radio show he has regularly argued with various Ministers for Justice.  It may (or may not) be worthwhile scepticism not to believe everything Micahel McDowell says - but do you believe Paul Williams?





The Sunday world is a Tabloid infotainmentpaper. Williams will argue with anyone to make 'news.' I always discount 'news' in a Tabloid using the reporters love of publicity, extra book sales and the public eye. 
For this reason  and the fact I havent read the Sunday World for years, mention of Williams isnt enough to convince me that Sinn fein has profited from young kids in their constituencies shooting poison into their veins . The notion is absurd and preposterous and if this was true I doubt the peace process would have come on as far as it has.
My biggest problem is not the drugs issue (because I can see people are motivated to make things up) but the Jerry McCabe issue which has been thoroughly documented in the light of day. 


Theres links between criminals and every party and the issue of past criminal connections is obvious to me. However the issue I am looking to have answered is not one of 'crime' but one of 'drugs.' 
When I see allegations about anyone, I hunger for proof. Where is it ?


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## Glenbhoy (19 May 2007)

Caveat said:


> Could it have anything to do with a traditionally higher crime rate in these areas and the suggestion of a particular brand of 'justice' from certain quarters?


It might be you know!!  But does that not add futher weight to my argument??


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## Caveat (19 May 2007)

Glenbhoy said:


> It might be you know!! But does that not add futher weight to my argument??


 
Not really. Do you really think these people are above duplicity like this?

As long as they are _*seen* _to be protectors of a community they can act with impunity in many other ways.  You seem to accept involvement in other illegal activities for financial gain - I believe things like protection & extortion have been mentioned?  Why not the most lucrative trade in the world?

I'm not suggesting that members go around personally selling the stuff or stashing it but that doesn't mean they don't profit from the situation.

Go around most large 'problem estates' in cities or larger towns and you will see these people established as protectors of the community.  As long as a few scumbags get 'expelled' every now and again and they continue to give out about the evils of drugs, they'll get votes in these areas.


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## Raskolnikov (19 May 2007)

I don't know about his holiday home, but I've seen the house that Gerry Adams own on the Falls Road. It's nothing special. I'm sure he can easily afford a Donegal holiday home on the money he's made from his best sellers.


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## room305 (19 May 2007)

sign said:


> When I see allegations about anyone, I hunger for proof. Where is it ?



Proof is very easy to obtain but I doubt it will be palatable. You could go into business dealing drugs in any of a few choice areas around the city. It will soon become clear who you have to pay if you wish to stay in business.


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## z108 (20 May 2007)

I'm  not on the side of any party . I am however on the side of truth .



room305 said:


> Proof is very easy to obtain but I doubt it will be palatable. You could go into business dealing drugs in any of a few choice areas around the city. It will soon become clear who you have to pay if you wish to stay in business.




So this is how you got proof ? 
I doubt you have any proof  or else you dont need proof in this case but have taken the word of special interests which would twist you any way which suits them. 
Especially when the matter doesnt affect any of your financial decisions, they are an easy target  and who cares about the truth right ?

Another point is with someone like McDowell in charge who hates them I doubt he would let anyone off the hook if he had proof of this.


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## z108 (20 May 2007)

To put this issue to rest for myself , I would also like to hear what someone like Tony Gregory would have to say regarding the issue of drugs in these constituencies. I guess Ill start googling !!!


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