# Pepper Settlement.



## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Apologies if not the correct Template. 

I currently have a 12 year old Mortgage with pepper for €300K + €80K arrears. 
€1000 being paid very regularly for several years adding up to about €180K in total repaid. 

They proposed in April 2017 that if we could acquire funds they would take full and final settlement for market value of the house of €170k. 

It was June 2018 before we got access to money and we were only able to obtain €100k which they declined. 

They in turn offered us a very unfavorable split mortgage which I in turn declined-they appeared irate over this at the time. 

January of this year we sent them in an offer with proof of funds for €150K with the house revalued (generously) ay €190K. 

As of today facing September 1St no decision has come from Pepper. 
In may I was advised to stop payments which I did a this has not even recieved a phone call. 
I have rang every Friday since April to see if there has been any decision and I get the same Generic answer every time that the team that deals with this hasn’t got a chance to look over it. 
I have had ABSOLOUTELY NO correspondence from their side since January in the line of either letters or a phone calls. 

My question is are they building a case against me or is there something amiss at their side???

They have completely failed to engage with us for years and quiet Frankly I’m at the end of my tether with it all. 

Apologies again for lack of structure in post but all help greatly appreciated.


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## Bronte (29 Aug 2019)

My understanding is that is you cease payments you risk losing your home.  Can you post up details of your split mortgage.


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Bronte said:


> My understanding is that is you cease payments you risk losing your home.  Can you post up details of your split mortgage.


The split was approximately 240K over 30 years at 5.5% and €140K shelved until the 30 years was up.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> They proposed in April 2017 that if we could acquire funds they would take full and final settlement for market value of the house of €170k.





Mr peabody said:


> The split was approximately 240K over 30 years at 5.5% and €140K shelved until the 30 years was up.





Mr peabody said:


> In may I was advised to stop payments which I did a this has not even recieved a phone call.





Mr peabody said:


> They have completely failed to engage with us for years and quiet Frankly I’m at the end of my tether with it all.



This is outrageous.

Pepper offer you two great deals and you don't accept either. 

This is the reason we are paying the highest mortgage rates in the eurozone because of won't pays like yourself. 

The legislation needs to be changed so that deliberate defaulters like you can be put out of your house after a few weeks.  

Brendan


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## Bronte (29 Aug 2019)

If you went bankrupt would you not be better off moving out of the house and starting again. Particularly as you have access to funds (I presume this is from a relative).  Because that's a crazy amount of debt relative to the house value.  And even when you've paid off the 240K at an eye watering 5.5%, you're still left with 140K (nearly it's current value) owing.  You'd literally end up with nothing at this rate of going.  

Alternatively I'd be thinking about going renting if it were cheaper.


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## Bronte (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The legislation needs to be changed so that deliberate defaulters like you can be put out of your house after a few weeks.  It's outrageous that you expect the rest of the mortgage holders to pay the highest rates in the eurozone so that you can get a write off.
> 
> Brendan


BB he said he stopped paying on advice. Did you see the interest rate he's paying.  We don't have any background to his story so I think you're way harsh.


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> This is outrageous.
> 
> Pepper offer you two great deals and you don't accept either.
> 
> ...


Very disappointed with your reply Brendan. I have worked my fingers to the bone for years having unfortunately taken out this mortgage based on construction income which had collapsed inside 12 months of drawdown. 
Repayments were made religiously for 11 years to the absolute amount we could afford and myself,my wife and my 3 children often lived on a shoestring during this period. 
I was unable to rise the full funds for the first proposed settlement and this was very disappointing but outside of my control. 
I do not see the debt offered on the split as being sustainable and it’s debt I feel that would be unfair to ultimately pass onto my own children in 30 years time. 
I believed this website was a so-called page a person could seek advice on without harsh judgement but after your response it’s clear that it’s as corporate as asking a bailiff for advice. 
Apologies for my initial post Brendan,I won’t be posting again.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2019)

Pepper offered you two great deals and your response?

Stop paying and accuse _them _of not engaging!

You bought a house at the wrong time for an amount you could not afford and you want the rest of us to bail you out? 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2019)

Bronte said:


> BB he said he stopped paying on advice.



So what?  He must have known it was wrong to stop paying his mortgage.  If you were advised to evade tax, would you do so?



Bronte said:


> Did you see the interest rate he's paying.





Mr peabody said:


> The split was approximately 240K over 30 years at 5.5% and €140K shelved until the 30 years was up.




€240k@5.5%€13,200Total mortgage€380kEffective interest rate3.5%

Not bad. 

He should be getting proper advice which would encourage him to resolve this through a PIA or bankruptcy.

But he might have blown his chances of a PIA now by stopping paying. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So what?  He must have known it was wrong to stop paying his mortgage.  If you were advised to evade tax, would you do so?



People do wrong things all the time.  And no I wouldn't evade tax.  But I wouldn't see anything wrong with seeing advise on the matter. To make sure what I was proposing to do was correct. Like the current thread on tax evasion. The OP didn't realise it was evasion, nor did others, but it was, and the OP should feel free to ask the question.  

The OP is in a bad situation, he's been struggling for years.  We've had posters on here just after the crash that were suicidal.  Now I've no time for the Ryans of this world.  But we must discuss each case on it's merits in all fairness.  And you know that I agree that people ought to be evicted more easily, but I also agree that we should try not to do so if we can.  Particularly families.


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## Bronte (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Pepper offered you two great deals and your response?
> 
> Stop paying and accuse _them _of not engaging!
> 
> ...


Yes Pepper offered him two great deals. But he didn't have the money.  So the great deals were worthless to him.  It can be very intimidating dealing with bankers. All the letters and threats.  It causes reactions in people. Some fight them, some get delusional, some get suicial, some ignore them.  

And it's not the OP's fault that the property market crashed.  Nobody predicted that.  And sure people made insane purchase prices. But they were surely led into it by possitive media, FF saying everything was ok, uselss regulators and bad bankers.


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So what?  He must have known it was wrong to stop paying his mortgage.  If you were advised to evade tax, would you do so?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brendan. Many thanks for the advice and kind words.


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## Dazzler123 (29 Aug 2019)

While you might feel that the interest rate is prohibitively high, no PIA is going to get you a reduction in interest rate or a writedown where you can clearly afford the arrangement that has been offered.  Not paying is a big mistake also. 

The fact that you worked hard for years to pay the mortgage is not something that mitigates the position you are in now. You are supposed to pay your mortgage. Nobody should get kudos or a pat on the back for simply fulfilling their contractual obligations.

You appear to feel entitled to a deal with pepper because you worked hard in the past and you dont like the offer of a split mortgage that they made although it seems you can afford it.  Unfortunately, not paying has greatly increased your chances of being removed from the house with no ability to borrow for another property.  You really need to consult proper professional advice and steer clear of the person that told you to stop paying


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2019)

Dazzler123 said:


> You really need to consult proper professional advice and steer clear of the person that told you to stop paying



+1

And make sure it's someone who challenges your sense of entitlement, not someone who feeds it.


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

I can ensure you all that there is no sense of entitlement in what I have said. 
The manager of the financial institution I have been approved the money from was the one that suggested I stop paying in order to get an answer from pepper which I do feel entitled to after 9 months waiting. 
Pepper have previously indicated that they would settle for the market value of the house and am I wrong for trying to do a deal for them in this direction or do the ppl commenting on this thread feel that I should try and keep the debt as high as possible???
It’s ironic Brendan Burgess that you can accuse me of being the type of person that has apparently ruined the country while defending the vulture fund that bought my mortgage at a huge write down themselves. 
At the time the mortgage got into difficulty I had approximately another €100K in debt all of which I have dealt with so forgive my annoyance that I’m having difficulty consolidating the mortgage. 
Surely €160k of a parked debt to be activated does not make the split offer a good deal. 
I wrote the post this morning as a plea for help in the hope that someone would be able to send me in some direction for professional advice and instead I’ve just been vilified as the root of all that’s wrong with the country.


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## Dazzler123 (29 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> The manager of the financial institution I have been approved the money from was the one ....



With 80k in arrears, what financial institution is offering you a loan?  Have you checked the interest rate on that loan.  Given youre in arrears they must be charging a high rate?

Pepper said theyd accept the value of the house. Bear in mind they said this in april 2017, over 2 years ago. The valuation would be based on that time too. Dont be surprised if they want more due to the value of the house increasing.  Plus something extra considering you havent been paying.

The manager in the financial institurion that told you to stop is totally wrong in his advice. If he is a manager in one of the main banks, id be very surprised. That is just negligent or perhaps hes very enthusiastic to get your business. He is certainly not working for you. You really should get professional advice.


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Dazzler123 said:


> With 80k in arrears, what financial institution is offering you a loan?  Have you checked the interest rate on that loan.  Given youre in arrears they must be charging a high rate?
> 
> Pepper said theyd accept the value of the house. Bear in mind they said this in april 2017, over 2 years ago. The valuation would be based on that time too. Dont be surprised if they want more due to the value of the house increasing.  Plus something extra considering you havent been paying.
> 
> The manager in the financial institurion that told you to stop is totally wrong in his advice. If he is a manager in one of the main banks, id be very surprised. That is just negligent or perhaps hes very enthusiastic to get your business. He is certainly not working for you. You really should get professional advice.


Thanks for your reply Dazzler123.
That’s why I initially posted-where does one get this professional advice?


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## Dazzler123 (29 Aug 2019)

Solicitor would be the obvious choice id think


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2019)

Your best choice is actually a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.

But in applying for a PIA, the behaviour of the borrower in the previous two years is taken into account.  Given that you deliberately stopped paying when you could afford to pay, you might not be able to get a PIA.

Brendan


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## Mr peabody (29 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Your best choice is actually a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.
> 
> But in applying for a PIA, the behaviour of the borrower in the previous two years is taken into account.  Given that you deliberately stopped paying when you could afford to pay, you might not be able to get a PIA.
> 
> Brendan


Currently paying a token of €400/month. 
Cant fully work as I need a new piece of equipment costing €10k. 
Income as the moment is seriously hampered. 
My lender has assured me they can give me this but says they will have to pull the mortgage offer in order to put through the €10k application so I believe that’s called being caught between a rock and a hard place. 
THAT is why I have become impatient regarding peppers failure to respond with a decision for good or for bad after 9 months.


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## RichInSpirit (30 Aug 2019)

Hi Mr Peabody.
This is only a suggestion, not sure how it would work in practise for you.
You have a brother that might be able to come up with 100k.
Instead of trying to get a write down etc. maybe you could just borrow the 100k off your brother and pay the 80k arrears and buy the 10k equipment that you need to improve your income, and keep 10k to help with immediate cash flow. Your mortgage then would be only 220k with no arrears but you would owe you your brother 100k. But he mightn't need it back for some time.
You might be able to renegotiate lesser monthly mortgage payments on 220k and your income would hopefully get better with improved equipment.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> Cant fully work as I need a new piece of equipment costing €10k.



Borrow the money from your brother. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

RichInSpirit said:


> Hi Mr Peabody.
> This is only a suggestion, not sure how it would work in practise for you.
> You have a brother that might be able to come up with 100k.
> Instead of trying to get a write down etc. maybe you could just borrow the 100k off your brother and pay the 80k arrears and buy the 10k equipment that you need to improve your income, and keep 10k to help with immediate cash flow. Your mortgage then would be only 220k with no arrears but you would owe you your brother 100k. But he mightn't need it back for some time.
> You might be able to renegotiate lesser monthly mortgage payments on 220k and your income would hopefully get better with improved equipment.


From the brothers point of view this is a no goer.  No way would I advise this from that brother's point of view.


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But in applying for a PIA, the behaviour of the borrower in the previous two years is taken into account.  Given that you deliberately stopped paying when you could afford to pay, you might not be able to get a PIA.


From the McNamara case it seems to me this not paying can be overlooked by the judge. But if he's going down this route, which he should, he should start paying so he gets his record back on track.


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> Cant fully work as I need a new piece of equipment costing €10k.
> Income as the moment is seriously hampered.
> My lender has assured me they can give me this but says they will have to pull the mortgage offer in order to put through the €10k application so I believe that’s called being caught between a rock and a hard place.
> THAT is why I have become impatient regarding peppers failure to respond with a decision for good or for bad after 9 months.


This I don't understand. Surely you can borrow the 10K off your brother? And you can pay him back from your increased income. What equipment is it that is stopping you working?

And I don't understand what you mean there about your lender, have you applied to Pepper for a 10K loan? Or this a different lender?


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## Mr peabody (30 Aug 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Borrow the money from your brother.
> 
> Brendan



It’s been three years since the offer of the money from my brother was initially proposed to Pepper. When it wasn’t accepted my brothers life has moved on and his money is now tied up elsewhere. 
I feel you picked me up completely wrong yesterday Brendan. I am in no way looking for a freebie,i feel that the same as in any business deal if money can be saved why not try and go for it. if it appears I am strategically defaulting it has just been in a bid to get a response from Pepper. I have the monthly payments all kept and if they reject the offer this money will be paid I lieu of the missed payments. 
If Pepper say no to my current offer it will be a case of regrouping and trying to put together a better offer. 
My main query on the initial post was could anybody understand why it could take Pepper 9 months to come back with a decision but the replies have been far more interested in all other aspects of my story.


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> It’s been three years since the offer of the money from my brother was initially proposed to Pepper. When it wasn’t accepted my brothers life has moved on and his money is now tied up elsewhere.
> I feel you picked me up completely wrong yesterday Brendan. I am in no way looking for a freebie,i feel that the same as in any business deal if money can be saved why not try and go for it. if it appears I am strategically defaulting it has just been in a bid to get a response from Pepper. I have the monthly payments all kept and if they reject the offer this money will be paid I lieu of the missed payments.
> If Pepper say no to my current offer it will be a case of regrouping and trying to put together a better offer.
> My main query on the initial post was could anybody understand why it could take Pepper 9 months to come back with a decision but the replies have been far more interested in all other aspects of my story.


If you've kept the money why don't you use it to buy the equipment?  I don't think trying to force the bank into a corner is the way to go.  

Pepper are presumably very busy, didn't they tell you they hadn't had time to look at your file.  If you engaged a PIP, which is exactly what you should do, you would be able to get concrete advise on your options.  I'm amazed in all these years that you didn't go to a professional.  And Pepper would probably prefer to deal with a professional.


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## Mr peabody (30 Aug 2019)

Bronte said:


> This I don't understand. Surely you can borrow the 10K off your brother? And you can pay him back from your increased income. What equipment is it that is stopping you working?
> 
> And I don't understand what you mean there about your lender, have you applied to Pepper for a 10K loan? Or this a different lender?


Hi Bronte. It’s a piece of machinery that I use in my job. As stated in post to Brendan my brother has since tied money up elsewhere. 
God no,loan is not from Pepper. In 2016 and 2017 I asked pepper could they do a mortgage for the market value of the house or 20/30k above it out of the new and even at a high interest rate from once it was sustainable they could have licked us in as long term customers but they laughed at the proposal.


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> Hi Bronte. It’s a piece of machinery that I use in my job. As stated in post to Brendan my brother has since tied money up elsewhere.
> God no,loan is not from Pepper. In 2016 and 2017 I asked pepper could they do a mortgage for the market value of the house or 20/30k above it out of the new and even at a high interest rate from once it was sustainable they could have licked us in as long term customers but they laughed at the proposal.


You don't seem to understand that what you want from Pepper may not be what Pepper wants or is willing to do. Do you understand that Peabody?

What institution is willing to give you a loan with your credit history and your significant level of debt. Frankly I'm astounded any institution is allowed to do such lending. Is it a credit union?


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## Mr peabody (30 Aug 2019)

I 


Bronte said:


> You don't seem to understand that what you want from Pepper may not be what Pepper wants or is willing to do. Do you understand that Peabody?
> 
> What institution is willing to give you a loan with your credit history and your significant level of debt. Frankly I'm astounded any institution is allowed to do such lending. Is it a credit union?


I completely understand that re what Pepper want. But the way I’m looking at it is that I have tried to put forward proposals to them where they would have me as a long term paying customer(I’m in my mid thirties) as long as the mortgage is sustainable. I felt that the split offer with a huge balloon payment at the end was not sustainable and potentially saddling my kids with debt around the time of my retirement is not something I plan on doing. 
The house is in MASSIVE negative equity in a very very remote rural setting and as 3 different Valuer’s working for Pepper have all pointed out it’s a “very hard sell”. 
And Yes.Credit union is the lender.


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## Sunny (30 Aug 2019)

If the Central Bank is reading this, every credit union in the Country can expect an inspection on their underwriting standards.

Look it is a tough situation to be in and I know it must be difficult for you and your family but you really need good independent advice at this stage. A PIA is probably best bet and they will deal with your case even if you are not currently paying. Or else try one someplace like MABS that might be able to put in touch with someone.

My two cents worth are as follows: You need to forget about the credit union mortgage and making a deal with Pepper on a % of the market value of the house. While you are not paying, the arrears are climbing. They will just take the house and get the full market value. Take the loan from the credit union for the equipment and start earning a full wage again. Continue to pay what you can and at very least the interest on the mortgage. Keep copies and track of all attempts to deal with Pepper. This will be proof of engagement if they do start proceedings. You really do need to look at the split mortgage solution if still available. Its not a bad offer. Your kids won't be saddled with the debt. You might even want to sell and downsize at the end of the 30 years. You have 30 years to worry about the 140k. Anything can happen before then. The key is getting a sustainable mortgage and security in your home for you and your family now while the kids are young.

Best of luck anyway.


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## Bronte (30 Aug 2019)

Mr peabody said:


> I
> 
> I completely understand that re what Pepper want. But the way I’m looking at it is that I have tried to put forward proposals to them where they would have me as a long term paying customer(I’m in my mid thirties) as long as the mortgage is sustainable. I felt that the split offer with a huge balloon payment at the end was not sustainable and potentially saddling my kids with debt around the time of my retirement is not something I plan on doing.
> The house is in MASSIVE negative equity in a very very remote rural setting and as 3 different Valuer’s working for Pepper have all pointed out it’s a “very hard sell”.
> And Yes.Credit union is the lender.


You're still arguing from your own perspective.  Pepper are not interested in offering you what you want them to offer you.  It doesn't matter what you feel. They don't feel. They want their money. It's only about money.  

As for your children. They will have no debt. How are you saddling them with debt. You can pay the mortgage for now and house your children, I presume given the cost of it that it's a fine house.  You can afford to pay the mortgage. So that will be paid off in time. And you can try and save money to pay off the balloon payment in 30 years.  

Your credit union is crazy. How much have you on deposit there?  Can't believe you think borrowing more money at a high interest rate is a good idea. Can your brother or someone else not loan you the 10K interest free.


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## TLO (30 Aug 2019)

+1 on taking the PIA route.  Also, a "no-veto" PIA may be possible as the mortgage was in arrears on 1/1/2015.  No-veto means that the judge may force the PIA on Pepper even if they don't like it.  The mortgage could potentially be written down to the value of the house.


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## Mr peabody (30 Aug 2019)

Not signed up to split. Was only offered that late summer last year and declined due to fear of balloon payment which I must admit going by comments here is a decision I could yet live to regret. 


Bronte said:


> He already signed up to that agreement. That was what he was paying.


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## Mr peabody (27 Dec 2022)

Hi all. Just an update on what happened regarding the Pepper Settlement previously outlined. 
Earlier in the year Pepper accepted my offer for the market value of the house-180k for full and final settlement of the 440k mortgage including arrears. 
For all the advice given on this thread and the extremely harsh comments, particularly from Mr Burgess, NOBODY predicted this or even suggested continuing with the strategy.
Key message from my experience is-plan how to get out of a financial hole,stick to your guns,execute it and be very very careful who you listen to regarding advice.
Happy Xmas everyone, particularly all the so called financial advisory experts.


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## Clamball (27 Dec 2022)

That is good news for you Mr Peabody.  It must be a great feeling to only be in debt to €180K rather than €440K.

So you currently have a €180K loan with another lender?  How are the repayments on that going.  Did you ever get that piece of machinery you wanted and what is your income like now?   

Do you feel you will be in a position to pay off this current loan in full?  What is the term and interest rate?

And who gave you the best advice.   I know you did not rate the advice here but it was very nice of you to circle back and let us know the current position.   

How long did pepper take to respond to you, and what did they think of the token mortgage payments you were making back in 2019.   I admire your ability to keep going in the face of mounting debts, I know I would not have been able to do the same, but that is just my mindset.


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## ClubMan (27 Dec 2022)

Mr peabody said:


> They proposed in April 2017 that if we could acquire funds they would take full and final settlement for market value of the house of €170k.





Mr peabody said:


> Earlier in the year Pepper accepted my offer for the market value of the house-180k for full and final settlement


So you paid €10k over what they originally would have accepted?


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## peemac (27 Dec 2022)

Pepper were obviously representing an investment fund.

Called by sinn fein, the lefties and certain people in the media as "vulture funds"

We were also assured by David hall (and he has reaffirmed this recently) of a tsunami of repossessions by these funds.


But it seems from this and countless others cases that these funds are far easier to do reasonable deals with than any other financial institution.

I wonder if Mr. Hall, sinn fein or the usual babble on the far left could comment on what seems to be very fair treatment of people by these funds.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Dec 2022)

Hi Mr. P

Thanks for getting back to us with an update. It's always useful to know what is actually happening. 

You were offered a great deal at the time and couldn't avail of it.
The next best option at the time was to get a Personal Insolvency Arrangement which would have dealt with the issue very well for you.
You have now managed to get €180k and clear the mortgage presumably for less than the market value. 

There is a difficult issue in advising someone to stop paying. 

 Sometimes strategic defaulters  like you do get deals. 
People who pay their mortgage rarely get deals. 

So the people who strategically default  effectively cause the rest of 600,000 borrowers to pay the highest mortgage rates in the eurozone. 

I think of all the mortgage holders and not just the strategic defaulters.  As most posters here say from time to time, we need to make it easier for lenders to repossess houses. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Dec 2022)

Another important point is that many people will say that we must make it easier for the lenders to repossess the homes of strategic defaulters.

But then when faced with an actual case such as yours, their natural personal sympathy blinds them and they give advice in the best interests of the person, rather than in the best interests of society.

I stick to my position and have had to tell people on many occasions that what they are doing is wrong and that the bank should be allowed to repossess their home. They don't like it.

Brendan


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## lukas888 (27 Dec 2022)

peemac said:


> Pepper were obviously representing an investment fund.
> 
> Called by sinn fein, the lefties and certain people in the media as "vulture funds"
> 
> ...


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## lukas888 (27 Dec 2022)

Massive amounts of indignation from Brendan and Peemac.I fail to see the relevance of strategic default and high mortgage rates etc in the above case.You are completely ignoring the fact that the investment fund probably bought the mortgage at a fraction of the original amount owing and we're delighted to settle for 180 K.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Dec 2022)

lukas888 said:


> You are completely ignoring the fact that the investment fund probably bought the mortgage at a fraction of the original amount



And why was a lender forced to sell this mortgage at a fraction of the amount owing? 

We don't know who the lender was, but if it was AIB or Ulster or ptsb, they could not repossess houses so they had to sell the mortgages at a "fraction of the original amount." 

Because of this history of losses, they are required to put up more capital and therefore charge higher rates.

Brendan


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## Westirl (28 Dec 2022)

Mr peabody said:


> Hi all. Just an update on what happened regarding the Pepper Settlement previously outlined.
> Earlier in the year Pepper accepted my offer for the market value of the house-180k for full and final settlement of the 440k mortgage including arrears.
> For all the advice given on this thread and the extremely harsh comments, particularly from Mr Burgess, NOBODY predicted this or even suggested continuing with the strategy.
> Key message from my experience is-plan how to get out of a financial hole,stick to your guns,execute it and be very very careful who you listen to regarding advice.
> Happy Xmas everyone, particularly all the so called financial advisory experts.


I am in shock reading this thread, as someone who has been through the mill with PTSB and Pepper,  paying them a lump sum and now struggling again to meet my monthly repayments currently at 4.75%, receiving the dreaded letters monthly with more increases on the way I am genuinely upset that they treat people so differently, do deals with some and not with others, you try to do the right thing, you know you owe the money they buy your mortgage at a reduced rate and they give reductions to those who act more brazenly! I just don’t know anymore I feel like I’m back in the old PTSB days with more letters and increases, we have learnt absolutely nothing!


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## ClubMan (28 Dec 2022)

Westirl said:


> I am in shock reading this thread, as someone who has been through the mill with PTSB and Pepper,  paying them a lump sum and now struggling again to meet my monthly repayments currently at 4.75%, receiving the dreaded letters monthly with more increases on the way I am genuinely upset that they treat people so differently, do deals with some and not with others, you try to do the right thing, you know you owe the money they buy your mortgage at a reduced rate and they give reductions to those who act more brazenly! I just don’t know anymore I feel like I’m back in the old PTSB days with more letters and increases, we have learnt absolutely nothing!








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					www.peppergroup.ie


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## peemac (28 Dec 2022)

lukas888 said:


> Massive amounts of indignation from Brendan and Peemac.I fail to see the relevance of strategic default and high mortgage rates etc in the above case.You are completely ignoring the fact that the investment fund probably bought the mortgage at a fraction of the original amount owing and we're delighted to settle for 180 K.


No indignation from me re the poster. Its more how a certain cohort of politicians, left wing / tabloid media and publicity seekers like David Hall claimed that there would be Armageddon due to "vulture" funds buying mortgages and there would be an "avalanche" of repossessions.

This case and many others shows that it is these same investment funds that will do deals and be quite reasonable. 

And again, the assumption put in the same media and by the same agitators that these funds paid a fraction of the value has never been borne out by any facts whatsoever. These funds look for an investment return. It might be 20%-25%, but they also take the hit when things go bad


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## surfinky (2 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> And why was a lender forced to sell this mortgage at a fraction of the amount owing?



They (AIB, Ulster, Ptsb) in a vast number of cases did not and would not provide adequate or sustainable solutions to distressed customers. Their customers went into arrears. They continued to penalise them, despite their circumstances and/or issue repossession proceedings on family homes. In the case of Ptsb for example, many were offered "split mortgage" arrangements. These loans were then categorised (wrongly) as "non-performing" loans and subsequently sold off on that basis to investment funds, who are now hiking interest rates well beyond normal lending rates. Hundreds if not thousands of those who have entered into insolvency and are now coming out the other end and facing mortgage repayments well in excess of the payments they couldn't afford in the first place and through economic and other circumstances beyond their control.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Jan 2023)

surfinky said:


> They (AIB, Ulster, Ptsb) in a vast number of cases did not and would not provide adequate or sustainable solutions to distressed customers.



About 120,000 mortgages were restructured. 





surfinky said:


> They continued to penalise them,



No.  They weren't penalising them before the CCMA and when it came out, it prohibited penalising customers in arrears. 



surfinky said:


> In the case of Ptsb for example, many were offered "split mortgage" arrangements. These loans were then categorised (wrongly) as "non-performing" loans and subsequently sold off on that basis to investment funds, who are now hiking interest rates well beyond normal lending rates.



So ptsb put 50% of a mortgage in a warehouse and charged no interest on it.  Ah, that is what you mean by "penalising". Sorry, I misunderstood the word. 

The Central Bank insisted that these were NPLs despite ptsb's protests.


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## surfinky (2 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So ptsb put 50% of a mortgage in a warehouse and charged no interest on it.  Ah, that is what you mean by "penalising". Sorry, I misunderstood the word.



I detect a bit of sarcasm and I note that you have conflated two separate points I mention.

However what I meant by "penalising" is the very definition of the word and with reference to individuals who were or are in dire financial circumstances and at risk of losing their homes. They were "put at an unfair disadvantage". If you want proof, go ask any person who is now dealing with a fund and not the original lender, where the split portion of the mortgage now falls due.



> The Central Bank insisted that these were NPLs despite ptsb's protests.



Interesting read:






						Enforcement Action: Permanent TSB p.l.c, reprimanded and fined €21,000,000 by the Central Bank of Ireland for regulatory breaches affecting tracker mortgage customers
					

Press releases published by the Central Bank of Ireland.




					www.centralbank.ie


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Jan 2023)

surfinky said:


> They (AIB, Ulster, Ptsb)





surfinky said:


> They continued to penalise them



No they didn't.   I am campaigning against the vulture funds who are charging 6.5%.   But you are wrong in saying that they (AIB, Ulster ,ptsb) penalised them. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Jan 2023)

surfinky said:


> Interesting read:



Fascinating but nothing to do with this thread.



> Enforcement Action: Permanent TSB p.l.c, reprimanded and fined €21,000,000 by the Central Bank of Ireland for regulatory breaches affecting *tracker mortgage* customers


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## cremeegg (2 Jan 2023)

Mr peabody said:


> Hi all. Just an update on what happened regarding the Pepper Settlement previously outlined.
> Earlier in the year Pepper accepted my offer for the market value of the house-180k for full and final settlement of the 440k mortgage including arrears.
> For all the advice given on this thread and the extremely harsh comments, particularly from Mr Burgess, NOBODY predicted this or even suggested continuing with the strategy.
> Key message from my experience is-plan how to get out of a financial hole,stick to your guns,execute it and be very very careful who you listen to regarding advice.
> Happy Xmas everyone, particularly all the so called financial advisory experts.


Thank you for coming back with the update. It is really interesting to see how things turned out.


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## Sunny (3 Jan 2023)

How did you get the 180k cash to pay off pepper? Surely a credit union didn't give it to you? If they have, you must have some connections.....

Well done anyway. That's some result for your family


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