# Are there any ethical banks/investments in Ireland



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

Hi. I am about to inherit some money from a will. It is a six figure sum and I am really concerned about where to put it. I have been reading up about ethical banks but none seem to operate here in Ireland. I have a moral issue with putting the money into banks who are not transparent about where they invest our savings. Can anyone make a suggestion please?
Thank you in advance


----------



## ClubMan (18 Nov 2008)

You might need to define precisely what you mean by "ethical". It's a pretty woolly and subjective term.


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ClubMan said:


> You might need to define precisely what you mean by "ethical". It's a pretty woolly and subjective term.



I would define an ethical bank as one that does not invest in arms, child labour and corrupt regimes.

Here is a website that details what many banks are investing in - [broken link removed]
It does not make comfortable reading.

An example of an ethical bank would be http://www.triodos.co.uk/uk/.
These guys invest in community projects and companies that have a conscience.


----------



## ClubMan (18 Nov 2008)

Why are arms investments necessarily unethical? Nation states have a right and duty to protect themselves and need arms to do so. "Corrupt regimes" is another largely subjective term.


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> [broken link removed]
> It does not make comfortable reading.



Indeed it doesn't as some of the content on this site is questionable, to say the least.

For example 

"Walmart blocks the unionisation of its workforce" - hardly a cardinal sin. All Irish employers are legally entitled to do this, and quite rightly so. 

"Walmart encouraging its employees to vote McCain" - as if Obama got elected without raising a shilling.


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Why are arms investments necessarily unethical? Nation states have a right and duty to protect themselves and need arms to do so. "Corrupt regimes" is another largely subjective term.


Try telling that to children who have had their legs blown off by clusterbombs or landmines. Try telling that to the people in Sudan, Chad, DRC etc whose lives are spent in fear. 
Some people find it abhorant, others like yourself don't. We should be able to choose if we want to invest in death or not.


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> Try telling that to children who have had their legs blown off by clusterbombs or landmines. Try telling that to the people in Sudan, Chad, DRC etc whose lives are spent in fear.
> Some people find it abhorant, others like yourself don't. We should be able to choose if we want to invest in death or not.


 
There are ethical funds that you can invest in if thats what you are looking for.


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

Sunny said:


> There are ethical funds that you can invest in if thats what you are looking for.


Where would I find out more about them?


----------



## bigbadostric (18 Nov 2008)

You could try the co-op bank in the UK?


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

bigbadostric said:


> You could try the co-op bank in the UK?



AFAIK you have to be resident of the U.K to join them


----------



## Sunny (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> Where would I find out more about them?


 

Try the ones mentioned here but it is a bit old so not sure if they are still offered but most fund managers offer the option

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=365399


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> Try telling that to children who have had their legs blown off by clusterbombs or landmines. Try telling that to the people in Sudan, Chad, DRC etc whose lives are spent in fear.
> Some people find it abhorant, others like yourself don't. We should be able to choose if we want to invest in death or not.



I don't think its fair to say that any users of this forum don't find the consequences of clusterbombs or landmines abhorrent. 

That said, I would have grave reservations about the quality of the information posted on the site you linked, and also in general about how terms like "ethical" are defined, and the integrity of some of the people who sometimes make this sort of definition. 

Its not too long ago that I heard one particular Irish politician pontificate about "ethical investment" while at the same time this individual's party was inextricably linked to an illegal terrorist army (which in its time has itself murdered and maimed children, and benefitted from links to an international drug cartel), and the individual himself is a former social welfare fraudster.


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> I don't think its fair to say that any users of this forum don't find the consequences of clusterbombs or landmines abhorrent.
> 
> That said, I would have grave reservations about the quality of the information posted on the site you linked, and also in general about how terms like "ethical" are defined, and the integrity of some of the people who sometimes make this sort of definition.
> 
> Its not too long ago that I heard one particular Irish politician pontificate about "ethical investment" while at the same time this individual's party was inextricably linked to an illegal terrorist army (which in its time has itself murdered and maimed children, and benefitted from links to an international drug cartel), and the individual himself is a former social welfare fraudster.


The information on the site is very well researched and I would be quite confident that they are not making it up. Here is a paper that gives more information -


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> The information on the site is very well researched and I would be quite confident that they are not making it up. Here is a paper that gives more information -



I'll take your word for it, even though I know nothing about the integrity, background, politics or financial interests of the person or people who produced that document. That said, my more general reservations remain.

Btw, you didn't answer my question as to why Walmart has been blackguarded (unfairly imho) in the website you linked earlier?


----------



## gillarosa (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Indeed it doesn't as some of the content on this site is questionable, to say the least.
> 
> For example
> 
> "Walmart blocks the unionisation of its workforce" - hardly a cardinal sin. All Irish employers are legally entitled to do this, and quite rightly so.


 
I'm not aware of any legislation which allows ALL Irish Employers block their Employees join Unions, can you elaborate?


----------



## Bronte (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Btw, you didn't answer my question as to why Walmart has been blackguarded (unfairly imho) in the website you linked earlier?


 
Wasn't there a story about a year ago about how Walmart were able to subvert legitimate minimum wage rates in the USA.   It meant their workers would be on a non sustainable wage.  I don't have a link to it but they are a very powerful company and don't seem to treat their staff very well (that's what I thought at the time).  Not sure if that's ethical or morally reprehensible though.


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

gillarosa said:


> ubiquitous said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed it doesn't as some of the content on this site is questionable, to say the least.
> ...



I understand that there is no legal obligation forcing an employer to recognise a union representing their employees, or to negotiate with them on that basis. Is this what you mean?


----------



## ClubMan (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> Try telling that to children who have had their legs blown off by clusterbombs or landmines. Try telling that to the people in Sudan, Chad, DRC etc whose lives are spent in fear.
> Some people find it abhorant, others like yourself don't. We should be able to choose if we want to invest in death or not.


I never mentioned cluster bombs or landmines.


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

Bronte said:


> they are a very powerful company and don't seem to treat their staff very well





ClubMan said:


> You might need to define precisely what you mean by "ethical". It's a *pretty woolly and subjective* term.


----------



## ClubMan (18 Nov 2008)

gillarosa said:


> I'm not aware of any legislation which allows ALL Irish Employers block their Employees join Unions, can you elaborate?


I would have assumed "blocking the unionisation of a workforce" to mean non recognition of any union in the context of employer/employee (collective) bargaining. Not necessarily preventing anybody from joining a union (which I believe is a constitutional right)?


----------



## ClubMan (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Its not too long ago that I heard one particular Irish politician pontificate about "ethical investment" while at the same time this individual's party was inextricably linked to an illegal terrorist army (which in its time has itself murdered and maimed children, and benefitted from links to an international drug cartel), and the individual himself is a former social welfare fraudster.


Worse than that - he's an ex banker too!


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

Oddly enough Starbucks claim to be a very ethical company, and have marketed themselves prominently on that basis, and yet they are mired in controversy on several fronts including non-recognition of unions. I wonder do the ethical funds invest in the Smug 
Green Monster?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks#Criticism_and_controversy
[broken link removed]


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I never mentioned cluster bombs or landmines.


What did you mean then - spud guns?


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Oddly enough Starbucks claim to be a very ethical company, and have marketed themselves prominently on that basis, and yet they are mired in controversy on several fronts including non-recognition of unions. I wonder do the ethical funds invest in the Smug
> Green Monster?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks#Criticism_and_controversy


They do indeed. [broken link removed]


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Nov 2008)

wilbur said:


> They do indeed. [broken link removed]



Just shows how useless the so-called ethical funds are so.  

Btw, I notice this shining pillar of society among the list



> Fannie Mae:
> Buys and holds mortgages and also issues and sells guaranteed mortgage backed securities to facilitate housing. Offers mortgages and ownership to low to middle income Americans, Market Capitalization: €24,140m


----------



## wilbur (18 Nov 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Just shows how useless the so-called ethical funds are so.
> 
> Btw, I notice this shining pillar of society among the list


I saw that too. Aren't they nationalised now/ Wouldn't that mean that one would be effectively investing in the good ol' US of A? Ethical.....pah!


----------



## Brendan Burgess (18 Nov 2008)

This is now moving into Letting Off Steam territory. 

Brendan


----------

