# Tapes prove Blanket Guarantee was essential



## Duke of Marmalade (24 Jun 2013)

Incredible tapes, you must agree.

But before we all shout "I told you so", consider the line where the consequences of not bailing out Anglo are spelt out to the Regulator.  BoI, AIB the lot would go down the tubes.


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## Gerry Canning (24 Jun 2013)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Incredible tapes, you must agree.
> 
> But before we all shout "I told you so", consider the line where the consequences of not bailing out Anglo are spelt out to the Regulator. BoI, AIB the lot would go down the tubes.


 
...
.... What the Tapes Clearly show are

1.  That the Regulator had not done due Diligence.
2. Our Bankers knew they could rely on Taxpayer.
3.  A Reckless and ammoral mindset in Banks.
4.  A flaunting by Banks and I include Central Bank of even the Basic issues on accountability.

You assume (maybe correctly ) that the rest would have folded.
I think @ BILLIONS = good riddance and Doubtless EU would have been forced to intervene. 
We will never know was it better to let Banks go in 2008 or have Austerity until 2025 ?

I would be interested to see what our Costly AIB people have said ??


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## DrMoriarty (24 Jun 2013)

I posted about this earlier, but it was a bit of an off-topic rant then. 
The failings of the Central Bank and the Regulator certainly can't _all _be laid at Neary's door, however appalling his own dereliction of duty. Nor would I be optimistic about the prospects of real change in the sysytem.


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## Sunny (24 Jun 2013)

The tapes don't change anything. They are crude and the guys involved should be ashamed but it shows that the banks themselves believed they were dealing with a liquidity crisis and not one of solvency. They were buying time. They simply failed to grasp the simple economics of the effect of the financial crisis would have on their loan books. Same goes for the regulator. They were hiding behind risk models that were hopelessly crap. The regulator would have known the bank was playing them if they had people with industry experience in their ranks rather than civil servants. What did Neary know about banking?


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## mercman (24 Jun 2013)

Sunny said:


> What did Neary know about banking?



What did the Bankers know about Banking ?? 

Absolutely nothing. Much of the trouble of the Banks was that the risk profile of clients was binned. Across the board these idiots were only interested in the amount that they could lend, and not the repayment capabilities of any borrower. And each piece of lending came with a bonus. So these people ruined the economy, destroyed the people but got off Scot free. 

We're all left to pick up the pieces, and in the cases where they think you have a few bob left, they will move a mountain to get the money away from people's pockets to theirs.

Personally, they make me violently ill.


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## Duke of Marmalade (24 Jun 2013)

Sunny said:


> The tapes don't change anything. They are crude and the guys involved should be ashamed but it shows that the banks themselves believed they were dealing with a liquidity crisis and not one of solvency. They were buying time. They simply failed to grasp the simple economics of the effect of the financial crisis would have on their loan books. Same goes for the regulator. They were hiding behind risk models that were hopelessly crap. The regulator would have known the bank was playing them if they had people with industry experience in their ranks rather than civil servants. What did Neary know about banking?


+++1
_Sunny_, I knew you were good but not this good!

I have just read a fantastic book by Antoin Murphy and Donal O'Donovan, _The Fall of the CT_.  As I understand their argument the main official blame lies with the Central Bank.  The Regulator simply saw that capital ratios were kept and that good governance was in place and they were supported by the auditors who never blew a whistle.  The CBI were meant to survey the macro scene.  It was up to them to spot that the concentration of the whole banking sector on property and construction was madness.

The IMF and the OECD constantly gave Ireland top scores.  Really unfair to blame Neary.

The tapes are real movie stuff.  Lots for the two guys to squirm about but it does not come across that they thought the bank was totally bust.  I feel a bit sorry for them.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Jun 2013)

Folks

I have had to delete quite a few posts.
It started off with an inappropriate post
Which was quoted and then went off topic
which was quoted, and so on...

I have not heard these tapes, but please keep the commentary balanced, and  on topic.


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## browtal (24 Jun 2013)

*Tapes from Anglo Execs.*

I wonder if I am simple minded, but have we in Ireland lost our sense of right and wrong. 

Is anything wrong anymore?.

Following carelessness or errors do people have to answer for the consequences? 

Can we do our work in any fashion and not have to explain why
1.  we made bad decisions or 
2  did not apply ourselves to get the desired result.
3   do anything we feel like in our work and not have to answer for our bad decisions or errors or dire consequences that occur as a result of our carelessness 
Observing the various happenings over the past many years where we find a reason to absolve figureheads from shortcomings? is anything goes our policy in Ireland.
Does anybody, except in private business, have to take responsibility for errors that happen in the course of their work.
Are management responsible for the staff that work under them?
When serious


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## Frank (24 Jun 2013)

Will this fade away in a few weeks like all the other major tipping point revelations that have come out over the last several years.

Papers will be sold, we will all rable over expensive pints and another bad budget will role around.

The wives of the rich bankrupts will stay rich.

Great little country if we could only roof it.


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## DerKaiser (24 Jun 2013)

Sunny said:


> ....but it shows that the banks themselves believed they were dealing with a liquidity crisis and not one of solvency. They were buying time.


But they did say put "N/A" under repayment. I get the impression they didn't really understand the difference between liquidity and solvency. All they were really concerned about was liquidity, and that is natural enough as the lack of solvency wasn't ever going to surface until the liquidity dried up.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Jul 2013)

Dan O'Brien has a great article on the topic in today's Irish Times

_Narrative of Anglo's demise_ comes with faulty guarantee

Unfortunately, the heading is a very obscure, and there is a lot of introductory stuff about some play about Anglo, but if you skip the first third of the article, the rest is well worth reading. 




> Part of the received wisdom is that Anglo’s foreign bondholders cost us all a fortune. They didn’t.
> 
> Anglo was in fact the most conservative of the banks in its funding,  issuing relatively few bonds. Most of its funding was obtained in the  old fashioned way – by attracting deposits, albeit by offering  above-market interest rates.
> 
> ...


A few points
The €10 billion in senior bonds was not all owed to foreigners. Some of these bonds were held by Irish investors.  If they had been burnt, Irish pension funds would have lost out. 

The €30 billion in desposits from non-retail and non-banks, presumably includes the €7 billion from Irish Life. This is only a minor point. 

I have always argued that Anglo was not of systemic importance and that it should not have been bailed out. It's €70 billion of depositors and it's €10 billion of bond holders should have taken the hit. 

Brian Lenihan was in an impossible position. He had to choose between a few alternatives, each of which was horrible. No matter what he did, he would have been criticised for it. 

With the benefit of hindsight, I think that he should have guaranteed AIB, BoI, ptsb and EBS.  

The depositors and bondholders in Anglo and Irish Nationwide would have received 30 cents in the euro or thereabouts.


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## dewdrop (6 Jul 2013)

Very revealing.  When the war cry "burn the bondholders" was all the rage was it really AIB and others were the ones mainly affected rather than Anglo?


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## Harry31 (15 Aug 2013)

The article in all the news feeds at the moment :http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...nces-for-ireland-over-anglo-tapes-603745.html
Who is this MEP? Dutch MEP Auke Dijlstra said the disclosure of the Anglo Tapes revealed how Ireland's bailout was "based on lies".
I've tried to look him/her up but can't seem to be able to find any trace on the eu website


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## dereko1969 (15 Aug 2013)

Spelt wrong presumably

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/103246/AUKE_ZIJLSTRA_home.html

Took 30 seconds looking on the european parliament's website.


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