# given a house before my mum died



## hippychic (19 Jan 2009)

This is my first time using this site so bare with me!!

My mum died in November 28th and signed over her house to My Brother sister and myself just before she died.  She also wrote a living will that the rest of her estate be divided into equal shares.

Her solicitor asked for me to call to there office the other day to sign a form to register the house with the land registry in our names.  They had told me that it could cost up to 2% of the value of the property.  My brother and I want to sell the house asap and was wondering if you can start putting the house on the market, before it is registered to the land registery.

Also I dont have a mortgage so does this mean I am classed as a first time buyer?  

Very confused about all of this,

Hippychic


----------



## murphaph (19 Jan 2009)

First off, sorry about your mum.

Can't you just ignore the fact your mum signed the house to you all (as nothing has legally happened with land registry yet) and let the executor of the will just sell the house as part of the estate to be divided up with the rest of it. It would save the bother of registering a property in your three names only to go and sell it anyway. Or is the house explicitly excluded in the will?

I'm sure the solicitors on here will have some good advice anytime now.

You are still a first time buyer if you were living in the house. You may still be classed as a first time buyer if the property is simply sold and the assets divided. Ask your solicitor about that I think but revenue aren't so bad as to revoke first time buyer status as it could be very unfair (imagine 10 kids getting a small share in a house all losing FTB status!).


----------



## hippychic (19 Jan 2009)

Many thanks for your reply,

My sister tried to get my mum to sign a will last year making her executor of the will last jan but my mum refused to sign.  Just before she died she told my sister to make sure she changed it and that all of us were executers of her estate,  this she did wasting a lot of time but thankfully it was signed by my mum a couple of weeks before she died.  My mums solicitor then said we should get our mum to put the house in our names as if she needed to go into a nursing home the state could take some of the value for her nursing home bill.  So my mum signed this also, it has been a most difficult time as my brother and I found the first will which is not signed and our sister does not know we are aware of what she was doing.

Relations between and brother I are good but not with our sister as we have also since found out that when our father died she transfarred a over 36,000 to an English bank account in the village were she lived in England.  We never knew this was done and dont know if the monies were paid back!!

Can we proceed with selling the property, or do we have to wait for probate which I dont understand either!!

Sorry but very confused

Hippychic


----------



## Vanilla (20 Jan 2009)

murphaph said:


> Can't you just ignore the fact your mum signed the house to you all (as nothing has legally happened with land registry yet) and let the executor of the will just sell the house as part of the estate to be divided up with the rest of it. It would save the bother of registering a property in your three names only to go and sell it anyway. Or is the house explicitly excluded in the will?


 
No you cannot ignore the fact that the house has ALREADY been transferred into the names of yourself and your siblings if a valid deed of transfer has been executed. 

What did the solicitor advise at the time of the transfer?

You cannot sell the property without stamping the deed first. No purchaser's solicitor would accept this as a good title.


----------



## j26 (20 Jan 2009)

Sorry to hear about your mother.

Assuming that your mother did a transfer of the property to you and your siblings and it has had whatever stamp duty paid and a PD stamp (giving your PRSI number to Revenue), you can sell the property as person entitled to be registered as owner.  When the property is sold you would hand over the transfer to the purchaser so they can show their chain of title to the Land Registry in order to get registered.

If that wasn't done, the the executor can sell the property and divide the net proceeds (less costs of sale) to the three of you.  It is not necessary to put your names on the property, if that is what you all agree to.  The executor may need something in writing on that.


----------



## sapmanie (20 Jan 2009)

Hiya,
Similar situation here except family home was explicity left to 4 of us. We all have our own houses except the youngest who is actually still living there. She wants to buy us out - what is the process? Is it just like a normal sale? So if house is e400k, she just hands over e100k each?


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Hello everyone

Many thanks for all your help.  I have just spoken to the solicitor they have explained that the transfare of the property was signed in November, and we then became owners of the property.  But that we need to have the deed stamped and then registered with the land registry!  They said the longer it takes for us to sign the deed of transfare we will incure penalities!!  I am confused and so is my brother  is this really clear and we are really stupid that we dont understand what all this means.


Hippychic


----------



## mf1 (20 Jan 2009)

You've received a lot of information here. You really need to slow down, read it, put it together in your head and then talk to your own solicitor. It is not that difficult - but you need to stop flapping and just address it. Posting random thoughts /incidents in two separate posts on this board makes it very difficult to work out what happened.

mf


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Dear MF1

I have put up our request for help on two different threads as we didnt know exactly how to use the site and thought it would help as it fell under the both catergories, we are sorry if this has caused confusion.

We are not flapping as you might put it and were only looking for advice, we thank you for your time.

regards
Hippychic


----------



## Vanilla (20 Jan 2009)

hippychic said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> Many thanks for all your help. I have just spoken to the solicitor they have explained that the transfare of the property was signed in November, and we then became owners of the property. But that we need to have the deed stamped and then registered with the land registry! They said the longer it takes for us to sign the deed of transfare we will incure penalities!! I am confused and so is my brother is this really clear and we are really stupid that we dont understand what all this means.
> 
> ...


 
What is unclear about:

1. You need to stamp the deed. Deeds need to be stamped within 30 days of execution otherwise penalties and interest accrue on the stamp duty due. At the moment there is an amnest on penalties which it sounds like you need to avail of- that expires shortly. In order to stamp the deed you need to see whether you or your siblings are liable for stamp duty- what is the value of the house, are any of you first time buyers, do any of you intend to live there.

2. Then you need to register the deed. Although you can sell without registration being completed, but you still need to stamp before selling.


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Hi 

Its difficult to understand all this as I have never gone through the process of even buying a house.  Our mums house was transfarred to us while she was alive, and our solicitor has had us sign paperwork which means the deeds are transfared into our names.  They then will register this with the land registry, which is were we are worried how it will effect my brothrs tax on his existing mortgage.  I think I might be OK as I dont have a mortgage and might not have to pay stamp duty, to find this out our solicitor told us to speak to an accountant!!  It would be great if anyone could refer us to a site which goes through what happens when you are given a house in this way, and what to do.  All 3 of us are executers to my mums will so we all decided together what is the way forward.  Im worried that when we register the house in our names that it will cost a lot of money that I dont have to spare, and the other 2 executers will be anoyed at me possibly holding the whole thing up.

Good luck with your situation, I hope it works out for you as smoothly as possible as you really get to know your family at times like these.  Communication communication communication, its hard taking a step back somtimes but in the long run I am finding it best policy

Hippychic


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Hi Vanilla

Many thanks really helpful here,  I now understand what this means thanks to your mail, the transfare took place on the 13th of Nov and our mum died on the 28th.  We were contacted in the new year as the solicitor thought with everything that had happened it was respectful to wait until then, which I totally understand.

I dont have a mortgage so I presume it will mean that I wont have to pay stamp duty, our solicitor has arranged with an auctioneer to come out to the house tomorrow and value the property.  None of us intend to live in the property and we would like to sell. It is me who is incurring costs of the property so far, its not a lot but its beginning to add up.  Trying to run one house is enough!  My sister lives in England and my brother down the country so I have kind of been left to deal with a lot of stuff here myself.  My relationship with my sister isnt great at the moment so difficult to talk these things through with her. 

You have been very helpful many thanks for expaining what the whole deed signing thing is about.  Do you know why penalties are incurred if reg late?

Regards
hippychic


----------



## Vanilla (20 Jan 2009)

Penalities are incurred when stamp duty is not paid within 30 days because it is the law.

However in your case there are mitigating circumstances and if your solicitor gives a cert of escrow to the Revenue asking to mitigate any interest or penalities due to your mothers death it may well be that there would be none charged.

In order to assess whether stamp duty is due by each of you you should post the value of the house here. I do not think that you will qualify as a first time buyer as it is not your intention to live in the house.


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Dear Vanilla

You have been really helpful many thanks, will let yee know what auctioneer tells me what property is worth tomorrow.  Should we mention to the solicitor about mitigating circumstance or would they think we are telling them how to do their job?

Really appreciate your help many thanks

hippychic


----------



## Vanilla (20 Jan 2009)

hippychic said:


> Should we mention to the solicitor about mitigating circumstance or would they think we are telling them how to do their job?


 
I think it is most likely that they will do this as a matter of course, but if you are worried then you could simply ask them if, due to the circumstances of your mothers death, the revenue might look kindly on any interest etc. 

Once you post the value of the house then you should get some helpful replies on the potential stamp duty.

Just be careful on the valuation. The temptation would be to value it low so as to avoid too much stamp duty but you intend to sell so you could be exposing yourself to CGT.


----------



## hippychic (20 Jan 2009)

Dear vanilla

Your mails have been a great help our solicitor had asked me to say again to the auctioneer tomorrow that it was only for the regisrtry of the house so I dont think I shall say anything now.

Will post tomorrow with their findings, thanks again for all your help we really do appreciate it.

kind regards
Hippychic


----------



## hippychic (30 Jan 2009)

Hi vanilla

Thought i might just drop you a quick note, thanks for adive do far, house was valued at €160,000 for valuation purpose 185,000 for sale purpose.  Want to sell through probate is it possible as my bro has not yet signed the transfer of deeds??

Thanks in advance for your help
Hippychic


----------



## Vanilla (1 Feb 2009)

hippychic said:


> Hi vanilla
> 
> Thought i might just drop you a quick note, thanks for adive do far, house was valued at €160,000 for valuation purpose 185,000 for sale purpose. Want to sell through probate is it possible as my bro has not yet signed the transfer of deeds??
> 
> ...


 

Hi Hippychic, well that is good news on the stamp duty front as it would appear there should be no stamp duty liability on a three way split. So you just need to get it stamped adjudged exempt by the Revenue. Your solicitor will advise. A transferee does not need to sign a deed of transfer unless there are covenants on their part in the deed so on a straightforward transfer he shouldnt need to sign for it to be registered or sold.


----------

