# House for sale but new land registry maps have moved my boundaries!



## mustang01 (1 Feb 2010)

Hi there, first post and am desperate for some advice.
My house is a one-off house on a site situated beside a housing estate. I bought it ten years ago and according to the folio it has exchanged hands 3 times since being built 35 years ago and never a problem. But I recently got an updated copy of the land registry maps and it seems the entire site has been moved about 10 feet each way so that now my boundaries pass on one side through the middle of an extension on my house and on the other into the neighbouring housing estate! 
Could the new maps be wrong or has the site been wrong all along? It is bordered by very old trees etc so I can't see how but my big worry is that the house is now up for sale and I don't know what to do. The older land registry maps look fine so surely I can't be left with this mistake. 

Could this issue raise its head during the sale process as it has obviously never come up in previous conveyancying? Solicitors don't go out and check physical boundaries do they?


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## mf1 (1 Feb 2010)

"Could this issue raise its head during the sale process as it has obviously never come up in previous conveyancying? Solicitors don't go out and check physical boundaries do they?" 

Had the boundaries been an issue before, it would have raised its head. And it will raise its head now. 

Solicitors may not check physical boundaries but (a) purchasers do and (b) their engineers do. 

So, yes, it is a big issue and one that needs to be addressed now. 

Not later. Now. 

Talk to the solicitor. They can talk to the Land Registry. There may be a simple error or it may be a bigger issue that will involve you employing an engineer. 

mf


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## mustang01 (1 Feb 2010)

But why would they be showing up different now? And why is it up to me to sort it out - surely the land registry must take the blame for their older maps being wrong as all previous sales would have gone against the old maps. Also the existing boundaries have been in place for over 30 years so they must be legal now by default now anyway?


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## mf1 (1 Feb 2010)

mustang01 said:


> But why would they be showing up different now? And why is it up to me to sort it out - surely the land registry must take the blame for their older maps being wrong as all previous sales would have gone against the old maps. Also the existing boundaries have been in place for over 30 years so they must be legal now by default now anyway?



Its up to you to sort it out because you want to sell your house. 

Talk to the solicitor. They can talk to the Land Registry. There may be a simple error or it may be a bigger issue that will involve you employing an engineer.

Or you could just leave it and hope that it will just go away. 

mf


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## mustang01 (1 Feb 2010)

Thanks for reply mfi, waiting on my solicitor to get back to me after he talks to Land registry. Have you come across suc a situation before?
Am trying to get my head around how the land registry could have got the details wrong for so long and then the homeowner is left to just deal with it. 
Apart from not being able to sell the house, what else in reality does this mean? Could I end up having to knock down my extension and then try and 'take back' land from the housing estate? Seems crazy, surely there is some way to rectify it without my having to pay a fortune to solicitors to sort out an error that had nothing to do with me in the first place?


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## MOB (1 Feb 2010)

A few pointers on this issue:

1. The Land Registry, when first registering this plot, did so on the basis of the maps submitted to them - they did not check the boundaries on the ground or anything like that.  Maps of plots for transfer were often marked onto official land registry maps.  Even if they weren't, the Land Registry ultimately copied them onto their official maps.

2.  For may years, the official Land Registry maps were based on relatively old O.S. data. In a pre-digital age, updating the paper maps was too big a task.

3.  In recent years, the Land Registry have done trojan work in bringing their maps up to date: a Land Registry Map is now printed on the most up to date version of the Ordnance Survey.   In effect, the "old" Land Registry data ( the red boundary lines on your map -which signify "registered" boundaries) has been overlaid onto the current OS data (the black lines on your map - which signify physical boundaries).

4.   In most cases the "registered" boundary and the actual physical boundary are the same.  But in many cases, there is some minor discrepancy.  These discrepancies always existed - it is just that now, such historical discrepancies are made very obvious.   That is one of the reasons why almost all Land Registry maps carry a disclaimer "not conclusive as to boundaries" ( it is possible to have the boundaries certified - though this is rarely done).   That is also why solicitors would usually look for a "certificate of Site Identity" as part of their conveyancing requirements, esp. on a one-off property.

5.  It is almost certainly possible to get this boundary rectified in the Land Registry relatively quickly and relatively cheaply.  But as MF1 says, it is essential that you do it now.  There is no point in looking for someone to blame - just accept that this sort of thing can happen, and get it fixed.   Technically your house is perfectly saleable as is and you do indeed own your  house ( and you do not own a chunk of the neighbouring housing estate........) - it is just that the boundaries on the LR map are incorrect;  but no sensible buyer's solicitor would simply take your word for it.  So you are going to have to get moving and get this fixed.

PS - I note that you are "Waiting on my solicitor to get back to me after he talks to Land registry".   Some counties have had computerised land registry maps for 3-4 years now; others have just had them rolled out.  Some may not yet be fully digitised.   It may be that your solicitor has not come across this issue yet ( because the new digitised maps are relatively new in your county) and is more worried about it than is perhaps warranted.   Don't worry about it - it is commonplace as part of the modernisation process (which is still ongoing) and these issues are ten a penny with the Land Registry at this stage.  I would be particularly familiar because I have acted over the years in the sale of a lot of housing developments in rural areas, often beside 'one-off' sites, and have seen this type of thing over and over.   Obviously I cannot tell you that you have no problem - but it sounds fairly ordinary and fairly capable of being readily resolved.


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## mustang01 (1 Feb 2010)

Thanks a million for your help MOB, good to know it might not be a one-off as am at the end of my tether with this and really don't know what's ahead of me. Yes, I would think my solicitor hasn't come across it before as he initially said something about talking to neighbours about it which I can only imagine could throw up all sorts of things as people can be natrually defensive about boundary and land issues.

So what's involved in terms of getting this 'fixed' is it a case of pointing out the discrepancy to land registry and them 'correcting' their new maps so it's all legalised? And how long would this procedure generally take - days, weeks, months...


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## Vanilla (1 Feb 2010)

It's very common with the digitisation of maps.

It's one of two things or a combination of both:

1. Land registry error. If it is this, when your solicitor contacts them, they will correct it or

2. There was always a discrepancy but the old maps predigitisation were not accurate enough to show it. In this case you will have to have all neighbouring owners sign a consent to a boundary rectification to have the boundaries on the land registry map corrected and accurately reflect what is on the ground.


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## mustang01 (3 Feb 2010)

Thanks for replies. Have had the site looked at and it now seems that boundaries were incorrect since day one but was never realised until new digital maps showed up the discrepancy. Gutted ...
Given that these old boundaries have been in place for over 30 yrs are they not now legal with the time that's elapsed? Solicitor thinks getting 3 or 4 other parties involved to sign a boundary rectification might delay sale process for years ...


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## Vanilla (3 Feb 2010)

You have now two choices:

1. Do an application by squattors title for registration of the boundaries as they exist. This is an expensive and possibly lenghty application with no guarantee of success. At some point a notice will be sent to all adjoining owners to see if they consent. If they object it's a problem.

or 

2. Get a consent to amendment of boundaries signed by all adjoining owners. This involves either your solicitor writing to all neighbours with a form for them to sign, or you doing a bit of legwork, and personally calling to the neighbours and explaining it to them and asking them to sign. If I were you, I'd do the legwork. If the neighbours are reasonable you could have it done in days.


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## j26 (3 Feb 2010)

Vanilla said:


> You have now two choices:
> 
> 1. Do an application by squattors title for registration of the boundaries as they exist. This is an expensive and possibly lenghty application with no guarantee of success. At some point a notice will be sent to all adjoining owners to see if they consent. If they object it's a problem.
> 
> ...



The first bit of information is not to worry too much - the boundaries on the map are not conclusive evidence of title - as MOB says, they are drawn based on the maps submitted, and the physical limitations of accuracy on paper based maps.  Having said that a prospective purchaser will want it fixed.

Of the above 2 is the far simpler option. The best way is to get a map, mark out the correct boundaries and get every person whose folio is affected by the changes to sign their consent on the back of the map to the boundaries being changed to the new boundaries on the map.  You may find yourself having to pay for their legal advice, or throwing them a few quid smooth the way.  If any of the titles are unregistered (no folio) then it will be much harder and you will probably have to go for first registration, or the first option Vanilla suggested.

If you try the first option, while it is entirely valid, some of your neighbours may consider it to be a bit underhand and object for the sake of it, not necessarily stopping things, but delaying it for years.


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## mustang01 (5 Feb 2010)

Thanks, think it might be a mountain to climb to get agreement from the neighbour that is 'losing' something as he can be v territorial at the best of times! Easier for the ones at the other end as they are 'gaining'. 
Am tempted to say to hell with it and hope it doesn't come up with potential buyers but would my solicitor have a legal obligation to advise interested parties now that we are aware of the issue?


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## Vanilla (5 Feb 2010)

It's probably going to be evident on the folio. If not, as part of the contract general conditions the purchaser is entitled to seek a declaration of identity which usually refers to the boundaries being in order. In any case if I were acting for you I would refuse to act unless the issue were highlighted to the purchaser. If nothing else, it's extremely bad form to pass on a problem.

By the way, nobody is losing or gaining anything. Get it straight in your own mind- what you are doing is correcting the boundaries in the PRAI so that they reflect the actual situation on the ground. Nothing more, nothing less. Why don't you get the map and go and talk to the neighbours.


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## mf1 (5 Feb 2010)

"Am tempted to say to hell with it and hope it doesn't come up with potential buyers but would my solicitor have a legal obligation to advise interested parties now that we are aware of the issue?"

Do you feel no compelling urge to advise a prospective purchaser of the issue? 
Would you be comfortable with the idea of signing contracts without disclosing this issue? 
Do you genuinely think prospective purchasers won't find out? 

mf


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## mustang01 (5 Feb 2010)

I know I know, of course it needs to be dealt with and of course it will come up. Funnily enough it was my solicitor who suggested we let sleeping dogs lie. At the moment, it just seems like an almighty headache and you don't know my neighbour!
A little chat and a bottle of wine might be in order....


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