# Shortfall on sale of house



## Golden1951 (4 Nov 2014)

I recently sold a property leaving a shortfall of 52,000.  Mabs are dealing with our finances and have offered the bank a payment of 97 euro per month which they have said they are willing to accept.  We own the house we are living in and the Bank have said they want to put a charge on our home we have said we will not sign to have this charge put on, what happens if they take us to court for a judgement and how long will it take the bank got 125,000 from the sale of the property and we got nothing should we allow them to put the charge on the house and if so do we still have to pay the 97 euro per month


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## peteb (5 Nov 2014)

I fail to see where you getting nothing from it comes into it.  The bank got 125k because you owed them that.


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## 44brendan (5 Nov 2014)

I would resist agreeing to put a charge on your family home on foot of a residual balance on a BTL. I take it that the property you sold is a BTL. they have agreed to accept €97pm and as long as you meet these payments they will not be in a position to take out a judgement against you. No idea where the figure of 125,000 is coming from!!!
Sorry now I get it, it came from the sale of the BTL. No, pay them the monthly agreed figure and don't agree to the charge over your PDH.


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## Golden1951 (5 Nov 2014)

no the property wasnt a btl what happened was we built a house with our own money and then borrowed money on that house to build the one we are now living in, we then put the original house on the market so we could pay off the mortgage, the crash happened and we have never been able to sell the house untill now.  the bank keep saying the house we sold was an investment property but it never was we never let it as we thought it would be  too much hassle, we had big row on phone with bank yesterday when they rang to say they wanted us to sign a document re putting a charge on the house we live in we are fearfull that they could make us sell our home if we got into difficulty paying the 97 euro per month, will it cost us as well as the bank if they take us to court


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## Gerry Canning (5 Nov 2014)

With Brendan 44 on this.

Mabs have got agreement of 97 per mth with Bank.
Stay with that until your position improves.
It is possible but very very unlikely Bank will force judgment on your property whilst you pay the 97 per mth.
Please , try to have any more contact by letter NOT by phone.
On phone you will be recorded and may say things that can be taken out of context.
With k52 it would cost Bank a lot to try to enforce any charge they had , so first DO NOT agree to charge.

Please try not to feel bullied, keep us posted.


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## Golden1951 (5 Nov 2014)

thanks gerry will not speak to them on phone again as you say everything is recorded, they have rung twice today but we have not answered and they are not leaving message, she said yesterday on phone after we said we refuse to sign anything re the charge being put on home that she would have to get back to her manager and see what he says, so that is why they must be ringing us.  I will put in writing to them that we refuse the charge  and wait to see what they do.  thanks for your help


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## 44brendan (5 Nov 2014)

I am coming from the perspective of a banker on this issue. Ideally the bank would want the residual loan secured. However, as per my previous recommendation this request should be politely declined. mabs have looked at your case and recommended an affordable payment of 97 pm which you are prepared to meet. send a letter to the bank stating your willingness to meet this payment and that you are not prepared to give them a charge over your PDH. In any subsequent phone calls refer to your letter. No judgement proceedings will be taken against you provided you meet the MABS recommended monthly repayments. This is not a standard Bank approach in respect of residual balances on BTL properties. It is likely that some maverick underwriter has decided off his own bat to take this approach and it should be resisted. 
As Gerry C says this is very close to coersion and bullying and you should state this in your letter!!!


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## Golden1951 (5 Nov 2014)

thanks all for your advice, going to  write the letter now and will definitely put in your last paragraph about coersion and bullying as that is what it feels like, will keep you all informed


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## Gerry Canning (5 Nov 2014)

I wouldn,t even put in coercion/bullying , just state facts.eg state x number calls to you etc 
Putting bullying into letter is much too subjective.Might also nark someone and no point in creating side issues. 
Stay on dry facts and keep a note of every conversation and who you talk to ie (contemporaneous notes)


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## 44brendan (5 Nov 2014)

> Putting bullying into letter is much too subjective.Might also nark someone and no point in creating side issues.


I would'nt pull any punches here. You felt coerced and bullied and you should state this in your letter. It certainly won't result in you getting "picked on". Unless people stand up for their own rights in this type of scenario it will only happen to others. I am involved in this type of work and I will always ensure that customers are treated respectfully and are fully aware of their rights. Some people get a kick out of treating clients in default porly and this should not be encouraged!!


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## Golden1951 (7 Nov 2014)

letter gone to bank stating that we do not agree to any charge being put on our home and that we are willing to pay the 97 euro through mabs, 
i would like to ask a question, i am right in thinking that usually when doing a voluntary sale the bank usually want to know how any shortfall will be met before the sale goes through which in our case didnt happen, which way is the general way. Could it be that the person from the bank dealing with our case overlooked this and is now trying to cover her back, by telling us we have to sign to have a charge put on our home


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## 44brendan (7 Nov 2014)

There is no general rule on this. However it is probably better for the bank to progress the sasle and then deal with the shortfall as otherwise concessions may be demanded in return for cooperation.


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## davidoco (14 Nov 2014)

With a shortfall of 52,000 paying 97 per month is never going to pay it back especially if they are adding interest. 

Others will need to clarify the following paragraphs because I'm not sure about an Instalment Order life span ie could you be paying an Instalment Order on a Judgment for 20 years? AND You may not want the bad credit rating or be able to handle court judgments, instalment etc.

I am of the opinion that it be better to let them get a Judgment against you for the 52,000 and subsequent to that an Instalment Order for say the 97 pm. It is my understanding that they have 12 years in which they can obtain instalments under a Judgment http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=177438

If they so wish they can register a Judgment Mortgage and the clock will start clicking on that too and in 12 years it will be unenforceable. 

If in the meantime if your circumstances change you pay off the balance.


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