# Bankcruptcy or PIA and retaining family home



## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Hi everyone, any advice would be much appreciated.

I agreed a voluntary sale of a buy to let property with Ulster bank (sale went through in April 2015) which left a shortfall of around €120,000. My family home is worth around €70,000 and the mortgage is €69000. My mortgage repayment is €491 per month which I am paying. I am on a very low and intermittent income and am just about getting by each month I am a single dad to two girls, (22 and 20 years old). My 22 year old daughter and her baby boy live with me. The Ulster bank have begun ringing and chasing the shortfall which I haven't a hope of paying. I have arranged a meeting with a PIP to gain advice on my options. There is a possibility myself and my daughter could temporarily move to my parents house and rent out my home for the period of a PIA which could create an offer of around €400 per month to the bank for the PIA term of 6 years (but due to her baby boy ect this wouldn't be entirely ideal but is still a possibility if it meant I could hold on to the family home). So just wondering if the bank will accept a low income offer or would I be better to go bankrupt (my only fear in bankruptcy is that I would lose the family home). Could anyone give me their thoughts on what may be the best option in my case and the likelihood of losing my PPR (family home).  
Many thanks


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Aug 2015)

Who is the mortgage on your family home with? 

Brendan


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Hi Brendan, my family home Morgage is with Bank of Ireland..


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## Gerard123 (25 Aug 2015)

Hi

Sorry about your dilemma however please retain hope.  Properly done there is no reason why you should lose your family home, indeed I think it highly unlikely given the facts you set out.  Go ahead meet the PIP and see what they say.  It is important to continue communications with the Bank despite the difficulties so that they do not seek to portray you in an overly negative light.  A good PIP should fight hard for you!

As an aside when you voluntarily agreed to sell your house was there any agreement or discussion on the shortfall?  I am taking it that there was not.

Banks should be under some type of obligation or clear consumer code obligation in situations such as these.  Banks should have the ability to recover as much as possible/practical for the money lent, no question.  However, on the flip side, in situations like these there should be an obligation on them for the full debt to be discussed/considered at the time of negotiating a sale (be it forced or voluntary).  Ridiculous and wrong for Banks to sell, they 'keep their head down' while the sale process is on-going, and when the money is in they then chase, often aggressively, the shortfall.  These type of tactics should not be allowed to happen.  Absolutely they should get money back, it is the piecemeal, often sneaky/aggressive manner in which they chase the shortfall that I think is wrong and puts serious pressure and stress on consumers, many of whom are frightened by the Banks and not used to dealing with them.  This is wrong.


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Hi Gerard, 
Thanks very much for your kind reply. Yes it is pretty much as you say, the bank kept their head down during the sale and then re-appeared to chase the shortfall. I did try to negotiate the shortfall but with no luck. My solicitor recommended to sell anyway and to see what happened then. Also the costs of holding on to the property was strangling my ability to pay my home Morgage because of my low income so I was financially forced to sell it. I do agree that the banks are entitled to some recourse, I borrowed the money.But due to recessionary factors I simply can't pay it back. I bought the property on the cusp of the recession in 2008. I do wish the bank had been more sensibly amenable at the negotiating table. However,  I will gladly accept your suggestion of hopefullness and I do hope I will manage to keep my family home. At this point it's an agreement through a PIP or Bankcruptcy. I am presently of the mindset and in agreement with an earlier post from Brendan Burgess that Bankcruptcy may be the better option than a PIP. Again my only fear is losing the family home. Thanks Gerard for your hopefull reply. It's much appreciated.


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## epicaricacy (25 Aug 2015)

I can't see why Ulster Bank would bother attempting to force the sale of your PPR for the 1K equity in the house. After all, BOI are owed the 69K first and besides, solicitor & estate agent fees would be a multiple of the 1K equity.

There is little point in them forcing you into bankruptcy as you don't appear to have anything worth pursuing and your income is intermittent.

Talk to a PIP and offer a nominal amount. I wouldn't leave your home to move back with your parents. The other option would be a small lump sum from your parents (if possible) in full and final settlement.


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## Gerard123 (25 Aug 2015)

You're welcome.

Re the bankruptcy route - it may well end up there but there is nothing in it for the bank to put you down that path.  There is no equity in your own home (after costs, etc).  I think the PIP is the way to go initially and it is better for the bank to accept a small payment for a period of time than nothing at all through bankruptcy.  I cannot see a court ordering a sale of your family home and having you and your family out of the house.  No way.  If PIP fails then it may move to a bankruptcy situation, but I would go in that order.

Question for your solicitor regarding whether you would lose your family home in a bankruptcy, I don't know the answer.  Worth reading the article in the link below also.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...family-home-bankruptcy-trustee-says-1.1616166


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Hi Epicaricacy, Well unfortunately both my parents have passed away. My brother lives at my parents property now. (He has some mild mental health issues, hence the suitability of living there wouldn't be entirely suitable or fair for him or my daughter and grandson). 

I do agree that presently the bank would have little gain in making me Bankcrupt, but however I'm assuming that in the future years if the equity continues to build in my home then the bank will have reason to force the sale of the home, so I feel there is an urgency to cement an agreement now so as to limit the stress and protect my home for my children's future.


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Thanks Gerard, just reading the article now.


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## TLO (25 Aug 2015)

Hi eyegreen_1, first of all, congratulations on getting the Buy To Let sold.  This simplifies matters.  The €120,000 shortfall is now unsecured debt, of the same nature as credit card or personal loan debt.  The bank is extremely unlikely to force you bankrupt because if they do they have to pay for the costs of the bankruptcy.  We don't know your full circumstances but from what you've said chances are that your income is less than the Reasonable Living Expenses published by the Insolvency Service of Ireland.  So how could you be expected to pay anything to the BTL shortfall?  

Might be best not to go bankrupt.  Any interest that you have in your parents house (where your brother lives) would be claimed by the Official Assignee.

I would ask your PIP to put forward an informal arrangement (can't do DSA because income is too low). Something like €20/month for 6 years.  The bank will probably reject it. Following rejection I would just ignore all communication from them until the debt falls away under statute of limitations.


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## epicaricacy (25 Aug 2015)

Hi eyesgreen

All of you moving in with your brother for 6 years may turn a mild mental health issue into a more significant mental health issue. It seems like a very extreme 'solution' - born out of panic -  that has little or no guarantee of succeeding. A PIA / DSA needs to be a sustainable solution. What happens if it becomes apparent that your brother's mental health begins to deteriorate (probable in my opinion) due to noise / sleep disturbance issues as a result of a baby living in the house?

I understand your need for closure - after all, I successfully petitioned for UK bankruptcy re. a mortgage shortfall.  The primary reason we sought the protection of UK bankruptcy was that neither my wife nor I have much of a tolerance for uncertainty. In addition, I wanted to start my life again and didn't want the shortfall hanging over all of my future endeavours like the proverbial Sword Of Damocles. We didn't have any other property or assets that could be taken from us by the OA. Furthermore, I didn't want it to impact on any future inheritance that we may (or may not) receive from our parents. In other words UK bankruptcy and its 1 year discharge period made sense for us.

I'm not sure that placing a 6 year strain on your brother's already fragile mental health makes sense - especially to protect an asset that doesn't have any equity in it. In essence, your decison making seems to be that bequething a property to your daughters in the distant future is more important than your brother's mental health in the here and now. The simple reality is that your brother's mental health should take precedence and it's plain wrong to take a chance with his mental health.

Ulster Bank have 6 years since April to come after you. Enforced bankruptcy would not make sense for them anytime in the next 6 years. If you want to make it even more illogical for Ulster Bank to seek a bankruptcy order against you, why not restructure your mortgage with BOI and accrue some arrears?


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Thank you TLO and Epicaricacy for taking the time to offer very thoughtful and valid points. I see the logic in both your opinions. You are absolutely right Ep, the idea of living with my brother is not realistic and is Bourne out of a sense of desperation and panic which I do need to take a step back from. Also I have of recent questioned the logic of being so fearful of losing my home as my health, my children's health, my grandsons health and my brothers health in the here and now is what is most important. Also TLO I think offering a realistic small offering through a PIP arrangement is all I can do. In terms of the 6 year statue of limitation on the debt I have read in various places that if the bank make contact with you within the 6 years and you acknowledge the debt then the 6 year period is reset from that point which could mean as Ep suggests the eternal sword of Democles hanging over my head. I'm presuming the bank may have recourse in the courts to seize assets like my car ect if I refuse to engage so it would seem offering an engagement through a PIP us the next logical step. Also TLO I was in arrears with my home Morgage with Bank of Ireland and recieved a letter from them saying my Morgage was unsustainable and they threatened repossession or self sale. I managed to catch up my arrears and have just about stayed up to date. As you say Ep closure is what I most need as dealing with two banks ringing me and threatening me has taken its toll. I do thank you both again for taking the time to offer your valuable experience and suggestions.


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## epicaricacy (25 Aug 2015)

Were you in arrears as of 1st January 2015 on your PPR or in a restructured arrangement prior to this? If you have it seems as if you can appeal a PIA rejection to the courts under the recent amendment to the personal insolvency legislation designed to remove the banks' veto of PIAs - i.e. if UB reject a reasonable PIA (based on what you can afford) you can appeal it to the courts (I think)


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Yes I was in arrears with my PPR Morgage before January 2015. But I was of the understanding that the the new veto legislation doesnt apply to buy to let's which is what my main debt was attached to?..


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Sorry Ep just to clarify: As of Jan 2015 I was in arrears on PPR Morgage. I cleared the arrears in March 2015.


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## epicaricacy (25 Aug 2015)

I was just wondering if your PIP could come up with a PIA that included some proposition on your PPR (e.g. split mortage or slightly reduced payments to make it more affordable) in addition to a nominal monthly repayment (20 Euros) on the Ulster Bank shortfall. In other words could you use the fact that you were in arrears on your PPR on 1st Janaury 2015 (per legislation)to your advantage? A PIA can include secured (PPR) and unsecured (Ulster Bank) debt. If the creditors say no you can then appeal the PIA rejection decision in the courts and may get it overturned. I'm not a PIP, but it would be worth asking the PIP about the possibilty of such an idea.


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## eyesgreen_1 (25 Aug 2015)

Thanks Ep Thats a very interesting point. Although my Morgage on my family home may seem achievable at €491 per month, when you add in monthly bills, car bills, standard charges and my children's needs ,legal fees and the usual miscellaneous financial surprises it wears you down when your constantly just keeping your head above water. Having successfully achieved bankruptcy in England I've no doubt you found it likewise . I hadn't really considered the idea of trying to achieve reduced payments on my home Morgage, but if Im being truthful a little bit of financial room to rise above the subsistence living and breath some positive financial air would be most wellcome. I'm hoping to try and achieve a more consistent income but being partly self employed with some means tested social welfare is just about keeping me going at the moment. Your suggestion is a very good option to try and I will definetly explore it with the PIP. The change to the 2015 legislation may work to my advantage. I have arranged a meeting with him for next Monday morning so I'll keep you posted as to what he thinks. Thanks again for you time and patience, your advice has been a great help.


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## Jim Stafford (26 Aug 2015)

Given that you are paying your family home mortgage, you really only have one other creditor, Ulster Bank.  If a debtor only has one creditor, then a PIA/DSA should be unnecessary, as you should be able to do an informal arrangement. Accordingly, I would agree with TLO above, and ask your PIP to put forward an informal scheme.

PIAs/DSAs work very well when you have multiple creditors, and you can use the votes of larger creditors to "cram down" more aggressive smaller creditors.

The changes being introduced by the 2015 legislation will not help you, as your family home is not under threat.

The key question to ask your PIP is whether he is authorised to formulate an informal scheme. Some PIPs can only formulate PIAs/DSAs, (because of the Central Bank regulations on Debt Management Advisors etc.) Informal schemes are considerably cheaper than formal schemes such as PIAs/DSAs, particularly if you are talking about a 5 year payment plan.

Jim Stafford


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## eyesgreen_1 (26 Aug 2015)

Hi Jim, thanks for your advice. On your suggestion I've looked a little into the basics of an informal agreement and it would seem that they tend to be for an open ended or certainly a longer period of time and the bank has the sway of power. (They can expect me to live below the level of means allowed under normal insolvency arrangements). 

One of my main aims either way is to remove the stress of the debt hanging over me in the least amount of time as I can. But hopefully it is within the scope of an informal agreement to still remain within the 5-6 year timescale. As you say it does seem to offer a cheaper process also. I will definetly enquire these facts of my pip and also enquire if he is authorised to arrange an informal agreement and take it from there. 

The main problem in all of this is that because of my low and intermittent income I will only be able to offer a nominal amount to the bank so It remains to be seen whether I will be forced down another route if the bank refuse to draw a line under the debt with an agreement. If they refuse an agreement I'll be in a stalemate position and I said in an earlier post I don't want the debt to sit with interest building so that some years down the line there is enough equity in my home to make it worthwhile for the bank to force a sale. Hopefully the pip will offer some clear guidance. Thanks for taking the time to reply Jim, it's much appreciated.


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## eyesgreen_1 (26 Aug 2015)

I also should mention I have a credit card debt of around €4700 to bank of ireland (this debt arose from using the card to service the Morgage payments on the buy to let Morgage when It got into difficulty). At present I have agreed a repayment schedule of €10 per month which is reviews every 6 months. So technically I presume I have two creditors Jim.


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## eyesgreen_1 (31 Aug 2015)

Hi, just an update on my situation. I had the meeting with my PIP this morning. He recommended Bankcruptcy as my income was too low and intermittent to offer the bank any kind of a deal which I expected to be the case. His quoted an up front fee of €2750. It would certainly seem that this is the route to go down as because of my circumstances there is a good possibility I will be able to keep the family home. (I just have to find a way of raising the €2750).

 I am aware that some people are applying for Bankcruptcy themselves, but the Irish insolvency website still recommends to garner professional assistance to navigate the bankruptcy process, any thoughts on this?..

Also I would normally be paying a preliminary tax for my part time work tax return, would I be better holding off on this preliminary tax and using it towards the PIPS fee as my tax bill from the revenue will be written off under my bankruptcy..is this correct?

Any thoughts or insight into any of the above would be greatly appreciated.


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## epicaricacy (31 Aug 2015)

Hi Eyesgreen

The IMHO's website states that it provides a bankruptcy service free of charge (besides court fees). I can't see any advantage in paying the bones of 3k for a service you can get for next to nothing - especially as your bankruptcy looks reasonably straightforward.
I'm not sure about the Revenue question.


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## eyesgreen_1 (31 Aug 2015)

Hi Ep, yeah I was thinking this myself. I suppose it's the fear of being overwhelmed with the process. I've messaged the  IMHO so hopefully I may be able to go through the process with their support, But I'm presuming their website is very busy so I'm thinking it could take a while before they're able to get back to me. On the ISI website it says revenue debt can be included in Bankruptcy so I'm taking this to be the case.


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## Stuboy (1 Sep 2015)

Hello Eyesgreen, you need to get a letter from a PIP stating that you cannot use any of the insolvency arrangements; this forms part of your bankruptcy application. circa 3K for the PIP's assistance seems extremely high. Hopefully you'll get help from the IMHO. I managed to get some assistance from a PIP on the bankruptcy forms (as there were interested in knowing more about the process and did it FOC for the experience), but I did most myself; the paperwork seems daunting at first but it's manageable. The staff in the examiners office (where you lodge your application) were really helpful and efficient in pointing out any errors I had made and informing me what I needed to do to amend them. Best of Luck.


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## Bronte (1 Sep 2015)

I notice that there are big issues with going bankrupt currently as the courts cannot cope.


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## eyesgreen_1 (1 Sep 2015)

Hi thanks Stuboy, I've made contact with IMHO so hopefully I may be able to navigate the bankruptcy process with their help. I'm definitely not in a position to pay €2750 at present. So I'll have to see how this progresses. It can be daunting alright. It's an ironic position to be in when you can't afford to go bankrupt! Thanks for your very helpful advice, it's much appreciated.


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## epicaricacy (1 Sep 2015)

Hi Eyesgreen

Make sure your car isn't worth more than what's currently allowable under the terms of bankruptcy.


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## eyesgreen_1 (1 Sep 2015)

That's definetly correct Bronte. The PIP I spoke to confirmed that that the Bankcruptcy courts are overwhelmed and that Bankcruptcy proceedings are expected to really shoot up over the coming year.


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## eyesgreen_1 (1 Sep 2015)

Hi, thanks EP, my car is worth around €2500-€3000 so hopefully this and my basic equipment needed for work will be within the assessed Bankcruptcy threshold.


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## Jim Stafford (2 Sep 2015)

Hi Eyesgreen



eyesgreen_1 said:


> My family home is worth around €70,000 and the mortgage is €69000.



Your position is certainly not clear cut, given the very marginal equity in your family home.  Valuations can be very subjective. It will cost you a minimum of €5,000 to buy out the Official Assignee's interest in your family home.(€5,000 is the minimum price that the Official Assignee has quoted to cover his legal costs etc.)

Given that there is no time limit in Ireland (unlike the UK where the Official Receiver has to make a decision within 3 years of the bankruptcy date) it is possible that the Official Assignee could wait, say, 5 years, before selling his interest to you.  In that time if your house has increased in value to €90,000, it would cost you €20,000 to buy it out etc. The Official Assignee has a duty to maximise realisations for creditors.

I would suggest that you try an informal scheme first and try and achieve certainty. Given the facts of your case,  a bankruptcy would not deliver a guaranteed outcome for you.

Jim Stafford


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## eyesgreen_1 (3 Sep 2015)

Hi Jim, 

Thanks again for your help on this. Yes I am beginning to understand your point and my surety on Bankcruptcy is beginning to wane. Certainty on keeping my family home would be of great help in my situation. 

Can an informal arrangement be agreed over a 5 year period similar to a PIP arranged deal or is an informal agreement an open ended arrangement?..and is the bank likely accept a much reduced offer?

For example in my situation the new monthly requested payment by Ulster Bank to meet the shortfall (from BTL sale) is around €650. If I was able to change my circumstances and offer the Bank €300 per month for 5 years as full and final settlement, in your experience would this be an attractive offer to the bank as opposed to Bankcruptcy ? 

I'm a little unsure of what an "informal arrangement" actually entails. Is what I have outlined above typical and standard of an informal arrangement?..and finally  would it be cheaper to as ask someone other a PIP to arrange an informal settlement and if so who other than a PIP is certified to offer this arrangement to the Bank. For example..a solicitor, an accountant?..ect..

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to understand the present financial insolvency landscape. Many thanks for taking the time to offer all your advice.


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## Jim Stafford (3 Sep 2015)

Hi Eyesgreen

As Ulster Bank have not yet obtained judgment against you, this is the time to try and do a deal so that they  do not incur the unnecessary costs of legal proceedings.

I am unable to talk, in a public forum such as this, what strategies  individual banks have. Generally speaking, most banks are now prepared to enter into settlement agreements.  The settlement agreements are generally drafted by the banks' solicitors, and would incorporate "windfall" clauses etc. You would need to obtain your own legal advice as to whether the agreement protected you. Generally speaking, the agreements would be very specific and would not be "open ended."

As mentioned previously, some PIPs are not authorised to negotiate informal schemes.  Either an authorised PIP or an accountant could assist you with the negotiations.  Having said that, it does appear that your situation is not complex, and you could engage directly and  negotiate your own deal. I set out below the basic steps that you should take to negotiate your own deal:


Complete their SFS. In calculating your Reasonable Living Expenses use the information provided on the Insolvency Service of Ireland web site.
Given that you appear to be self employed, you need to provide copies of your accounts,
Provide them with a copy of your 2014 Income Tax return (which you will have to shortly submit anyway)
Provide them with copies of  bank statements for the last 6 months for your personal banking account 
Provide them with a valuation of your house.
Provide them with a copy of a recent mortgage statement.
Finally, submit your proposal e.g. €300 per month over 5 years

In practice, the banks are very attracted to a "lump sum" of cash provided by a relative, as they can then close the file quickly.

Jim Stafford


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## eyesgreen_1 (3 Sep 2015)

Jim,

Thanks so much for your advice. I will for now proceed further along this route of an informal agreement to see if there's a way of changing my circumstances to offer a realistic amount to the bank. 

It does make more financial sense if possible to gain certainty of retaining my family home, particularly as you pointed out that it will probably cost around €20,000 in the long run to buy out the assignee (Not guaranteed). In a successful "formal agreement" I will pay the same €20,000 but will gain a much higher degree of certainty in regard to keeping ownership of the family home.

If I am unable to change my circumstances and agree a formal settlement then I may go Bankcrupt as a last resort. But I will investigate an attempt to offer a formal agreement first. 

Invaluable advice Jim, many many thanks.


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## 44brendan (3 Sep 2015)

Jim Stafford said:


> Complete their SFS. In calculating your Reasonable Living Expenses use the information provided on the Insolvency Service of Ireland web site.


Jim; just to advise that we require an honest SFS to be submitted in all circumstances i.e. actual cost to the borrower rather than insolvency figures. We have some level of flexibility in accessing "affordability" of repayments and while using the ISI figures as a reference we can make allowances where there is a reasonable explanation for excess expenditure. If I received in a SFS with expenses comparing with ISI figures and statements provided showed these expenses to be non-reflective of the actual expenditure I would return it for revision.
Fully agree that a "lump sum" is generally far more attractive that a higher figure over a term. Make sure that the source of the money is identified correctly. Proof is likely to be required before a settlement will be agreed. I.e. We would normally accept a letter from Acct/Solcr stating that funds are being provided by X and he is satisfied that they are available.

Eyesgreen - By all means use the threat of bankruptcy to ensure that your proposal is taken seriously. Ideally get a professional to submit your proposal for you. Be fully open with the information provided and have an alternative plan if the proposal is declined. If you can avail of a lump sum put forward your highest offer first. If refused and you come back with a higher amount you are bunched! Bank will simply think that you are negotiating and will frequently continue upping the ante to a point where you can't meet the required amount.


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## Lone Star (3 Sep 2015)

I wouldn't go bankrupt. Get a financial advisor. I'm at a more advanced stage but a similar situation to yourself. My bank talked about splitting the residual debt following a buy to let voluntary sale. I managed the sale, optimised what they could get and left all good contents to gain more in the sale. Saved the bank about 30,000 by the fact they did not have to appoint a receiver. I even got a grant to tidy up the estate and got a lot of residents in on the clean up act!!  Bank then refused to engage on residual....house was sold....they never had manners to acknowledge the money transfer to them and instead after 4 months issued court proceedings. It's been in the High Court now since 2014, and I will fight the judgement they are seeking if it kills me. I have a defence and they may actually lose! I will never give up my PPR or go bankrupt. (PPR is with same bank). A simple moratorium on my buy to let for 6 months would have enabled me to get new tenants and keep going....they pulled the rug in their own panic...now I have no investment (pension) and a pile of 'dates' in the High Court!! Don't give up!!! Fight Fight Fight and negotiate. Private message me if you wish and I can give you details of a really good guy to deal with for advice. Lone. Star


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## eyesgreen_1 (4 Sep 2015)

Thanks 44brendan,

Unfortunately It is highly unlikely I will be able to gain a lump sum to offer to the bank. But I do see the logic in offering the highest amount first and sticking to it.  The next few months will determine what I'm able to achieve. Thanks for your advice.


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## eyesgreen_1 (4 Sep 2015)

Hi Lonestar, 

sounds like you have been through the mill. Also sounds like you have a case, as the bank agreed to allow you to negotiate the sale but then ceased negotiating. I hope your high court case is successful, it certainly sounds like you have been very reasonable in your efforts to negotiate a fair settlement so I wish you well in the high court.

I will do my best to negotiate my own situation. In the next few months it will play itself out. Best of luck Lonestar and thanks for the advice.


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## Lone Star (4 Sep 2015)

Best of luck to you eyes green! 

Through the mill I guess....but still strong and have the will to keep going. I have an arguable defence and to date the bank have played the 'lets not bother replying to her replying-affidavit' and we'll press ahead for summary judgement downstairs in the high court. Worst they can do is a judgement on my PPR which as far as I am aware dissolves after 12 years. Meanwhile I will keep defending and researching and if the bank are happy enough lining the pockets of a glossy law firm then so be it....

Do you research and always seek out lots of advice ...


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## eyesgreen_1 (20 Sep 2015)

Hi, another update..further advice needed.

As aforementioned I have been advised by my pip to go bankcrupt. An advisor from IMHO has just advised me that I shouldn't go bankcrupt as there is equity(possibly €10-€15000) in my home and there is a chance I will lose it. (This is similar to what Jim Stafford) advised. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to offer an informal agreement or lump sum at present.
 My question then seems:

Scenario 1: do I risk bankruptcy and hope for a good outcome on my home-and also if further equity builds up in my home during the 3 year term is it likely the court assignee will come to an agreement to allow me to buy it back?...and if so would he require a lump sum or a monthly payment?

Scenario 2: I just sit and wait and do nothing and hope that somewhere down the line I am able to acquire a lump sum to offer as full and final settlement. 

The advisor from IMHO suggested that it is unlikely that the ulster bank will go to the expense of chasing my family home, but if equity builds up is it likely they will before the 12 year limit runs out? Risk bankcruptcy or wait it out...Any further advice at this juncture would be much appreciated...


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## eyesgreen_1 (21 Sep 2015)

Just to clarify the above post, there seems to be a lot of borrowers in my position that have low income and are able to sustain the home Morgage but do not have the funds (either through a pip or through an informal agreement) to make an offer to the bank on the unsecured debt and therefore have only the option of waiting to see what the bank will do or alternatively to go bankcrupt.

I therefore find myself in a stalemate position. Any further advice on the above post and what I should do now would be greatly appreciated...


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## 44brendan (21 Sep 2015)

Ulster bank have a 6 year limit from last contact within which they need to commence legal action against you. Going bankrupt at this time would appear to me to be somewhat extreme. UB may simply obtain a judgment and register this against your PDH. They will not go through the effort of trying to get a "well charging order"/"order for sale on your PDH. However if they do register a JM this will remain active for a 12 year period should you wish to sell/transfer the property within this time-frame.

I would tend to wait until UB strategy is clear. If they commence legal action you have plenty of time to make a decision.


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## eyesgreen_1 (21 Sep 2015)

Okay, thanks for that 44brendan. My fear in waiting was that the build up of equity in my home over the next number of years may induce the UB to attempt a force of sale/bankcruptcy. So wasn't sure wether in the long run it would be better to attempt to draw a line under things now with bankcruptcy while the equity is low. And also it would lift the stress of the debt. But would be fearfull for my kids of losing the family home.

I do understand there would be no gain at present for UB as the value of the house and the Morgage balance are on a par. Thanks for your advice 44brendan, it's much appreciated.


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