# Bar using unlicensed Area



## glengar (17 Jun 2017)

Hello

I live near a Bar which has recently developed an outside Beer Garden the Area where the Beer Garden has been put is unlicensed I have checked in Licensing office in 4 courts and only the building is licensed as deliniated by red line noting the license area 

This beer garden is causing major disturbance with people sitting there drinking late at night 

Gardai seem very disinterested can anyone advise how to proceed do I need a solicitor Bar owner is unresponsive 

I am in West Dublin

thanks
Glengar


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## Leper (17 Jun 2017)

Please amplify the nature of the disturbance caused.


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## glengar (17 Jun 2017)

Leper said:


> Please amplify the nature of the disturbance caused.



Noise


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## mathepac (17 Jun 2017)

glengar said:


> Gardai seem very disinterested can anyone advise how to proceed do I need a solicitor Bar owner is unresponsive


I would expect the Guards to be disinterested, but not uninterested. Write a letter of complaint to the local Superintendant.


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## Leper (17 Jun 2017)

Is this a storm in a teacup?


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## PaddyBloggit (17 Jun 2017)

Leper said:


> s this a storm in a teacup?


 Perhaps .... if you don't live near the pub in question.


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## Leper (18 Jun 2017)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Perhaps .... if you don't live near the pub in question.



Good question/statement there Paddy.  The proximity to the pub would be a factor.  The extent and volume of the noise are also important factors. Whether the beer garden is licensed or not is also somewhat relevant.  It's no big deal for a publican to get the additional area licensed. Perhaps if he does things will get worse? Out of the frying pan into the fire comes to mind.

Let's say the publican gets the area licensed.  Then he can have bands performing there. Perhaps even a retractable roof, more tables, more clientele. More interruptions to quietness. More people, more bar activity, more traffic etc. Our information here is sparse and we can only give opinions on what is provided.

I have sympathy with Glengar but perhaps he should quit while he is just behind?


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## PaddyBloggit (18 Jun 2017)

Leper said:


> I have sympathy with Glengar but perhaps he should quit while he is just behind?



But Glengar is looking for a way to proceed not advise to stop.

Noise intrusion is a terrible thing and if he can get it sorted to his satisfaction (and pub satisfaction?), then he'll return to having a home where he can relax without the stress of noise keeping him up/awake late at night.


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## Leper (18 Jun 2017)

1. Well then, Glengar can approach the publican which I would nearly guarantee will contribute to more noise than hitherto. Best Customer adds "I love me smoke and few pints and then sing to my heart's content. Nobody in dem new apartments is goin' to stop me, next he'll want us to give up our smokin', swearin' and fartin'"

2. Toddle down to his solicitor. Start legal proceedings against the publican and object to everything regarding the pub, extensions, licensing etc. This will cost and probably won't work other than the publican shelling out untruths through his teeth that you could hang a wet coat on.

Can anybody else come up with a solution?


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## rayn (18 Jun 2017)

Make a complaint to the court under Noise Regulations by downloading a form from Local Authority Webpage (or get a form from your local council office)
No solicitor needed. Keep records of times and severity of noise in a notebook.


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## noproblem (18 Jun 2017)

How far from the pub do you live? What's the nature of the noise and at what times is the noise annoying you and making your life difficult? Are other people living beside you and the pub? Do they have problems and are they prepared to join with you in going down the legal route? When you spoke to the publican, what did you say and what was his reply? What proof have you of loud and interfering, "noise"? Perhaps you could tell us some of the above and the answers might be more constructive.


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## thedaddyman (19 Jun 2017)

There is some good guidance here from the Citizens advice bureau.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html


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## KOW (19 Jun 2017)

Sorry Leper but cant agree with you that it is no big deal to get a licence for a beer garden. Paddy Blues pub in Gorey has applied for a licence several times for a beer garden and has got refused each time. Residents have objected each time for the same reason noise.
Have to say anyone living in a residential area and not objecting to a beer garden been added to a premises is stone mad.
How would you ever sell your property?


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## glengar (19 Jun 2017)

Thanks for replies Guys I live just opposite the Pub but the new Beergarden is on my side I checked Licensing Maps in Four Courts and outside space is not licensed 

Problem is this new area is like an outside Bar very noisy at night


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## KOW (19 Jun 2017)

https://dms.wexfordcoco.ie/index.php#   Take a look at 20170527. I think this is the fifth attempt for beer garden


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## Leo (20 Jun 2017)

Glencar, have you spoken to the owner? Their license comes up for renewal each September, and you can lodge an objection to that. See Citizens Information or Courts Service pages for more.


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## peemac (20 Jun 2017)

Check the planning. Planning permission would be required for a beer garden.

Here's a report on the planning issue in pub mentioned above.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ind...-blues-loses-beer-garden-appeal-35004620.html


A complaint to local planning officer will get the ball started.


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## glengar (25 Jun 2017)

Thanks Everyone for replies If anyone knows a solicitor who maybe has some experience in objecting to License Renewal perhaps you could let me know their contact details as this seems to be the way to go

Glengar


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## MrEarl (27 Jun 2017)

Hello,

Would it not be better (and cheaper) to first make the owner aware of your intention to object to their license renewal, unless they sort out the noise issue ?

Don't forget that there is no guarantee that a judge would rule in your favour on an issue like this (particularly if there are no other issues preventing the judge from renewing the license ... they might just tell the publican to stop, publican says he/she will and life goes on... same thing a year later, when the publican then indicates that its become an accepted practice and he/she has just put in for planning permission to "regularise" the situation etc).

Some form of compromise seems the ultimate solution here - pubs need an outdoor area but also need to keep their neighbours on side, so perhaps something can be agreed for week nights versus weekends etc ?


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## Allen (9 Jul 2017)

Complain to the Guards and the Local Authority in writing. 
Before the drinks licence renewal hearing, bring copies of your complaints and of what action the authorities have taken.
If the beer garden activity continues, get proof that it is still in use, and then then attend the hearing for the licence renewal.
Also bring proof that the necessary planning permission has not been granted. 

Is the beer garden on the other side of a public trafficked road from the pub? If so, when complaining to the authorities, stress the safety aspect of inebriated people staggering between bar and beer garden, rather than the noise aspect. That would prompt stronger action and would be of serious concern to the judge hearing the licence renewal application.


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