# Who is responsible for paying the tenancy registration fee with PRTB?



## penalty (4 Sep 2008)

I moved out of my rented flat last week. Went to meet the landlord to get my deposit back he deducted 70 euro from it and told me it was "a legal requirement". I was sure this was landlord's responsibilty not the tenent's.  Has anyone else been charged like this? Is the landlord within his rights to do this?


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## Sue Ellen (4 Sep 2008)

Hi Penalty,

Welcome to AAM.

I have moved your thread to the correct forum and amended the title.  Please familiarise yourself with the different forums and try to use more appropriate titles in future.

Looking at the PRTB website would lead me to believe that it is the responsibility of the landlord to register and pay for each separate registration.  You could try calling PRTB to confirm this and ask their advice about how to deal with the problem.


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## sam h (4 Sep 2008)

*Re: Who pay's P. R. T. B.?*

The landlord pays....and it's tax deductable so it really only costs him 58% of that!!

Thats really taking advantage...call the PRTB & report him


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## penalty (4 Sep 2008)

I have and the person I was speaking to was not sure "grey area" . They sent me a Application for Dispute Resolution Services. This costs 25 euro . Will they know then?


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## eileen alana (4 Sep 2008)

What a blooming cheek, the landlord has a legal requirement to register his rental property with the PRTB. Why on earth would the tenant be expected to pay for this??


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## sam h (4 Sep 2008)

Just looked at the website...the implication is that the landlord pays this as he is the one responsible for registering the property.  The only part that specifically mentions the landlords obligation to paying is in relation to the form being late:



> *This is necessary as the registration application must be made within one month of the commencement of the tenancy and, if later, the landlord will have to pay a double fee (currently €140)*.


 
I & most of my family have property & we all understand the fee is our responsibilty....mind you, it's a waste of money as, by all accounts, they are WORSE than usless and seem to cause more issues than they solve.  Luckily I haven't had to deal with them...to date.

I can't believe they couldn't even tell you if he is the one obliged to pay!!


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## Sue Ellen (4 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> I have and the person I was speaking to was not sure "grey area" . They sent me a Application for Dispute Resolution Services. This costs 25 euro . Will they know then?



Taken from here
"




Why does the form ask for the PPS         numbers and other details?
The PPSN is the State         identification number for dealings with public sector bodies. It will         act as the unique tenant and landlord identification number on the         registration record. Most of the other details are required as a record         of the tenancy in case disputes arise or so as to gather aggregated data         on the sector. Certain contact details are also requested. This         is necessary as the registration application must be made within one         month of the commencement of the tenancy and, if later, the landlord         will have to pay a double fee (currently €140) "

Also if as sam h says the landlord can get tax relief on it then how can they say it is a grey area!  * 
*


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## z106 (4 Sep 2008)

I am a landlord and would never ask a tenant to pay teh prtb fee.

That is taking advantage.

It is the landlords responsibility.

He is way out of line here.

I'm surprised he didn't ask you to pay his tax bill too.


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## penalty (4 Sep 2008)

The reason's I left are that mailboxes were broke and I had a cheque stolen which was cashed 30 miles away and the fire/smoke alarm was not working. Spoke to landlord about this, he said cheque was not his problem but he would fix alarm, never happened.So this landlord is out of line and is not a responible person. He also charged a tenant 60 euro "call out" charge" to let him into flat(lost key) landlord was in building at the time.


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## ClubMan (4 Sep 2008)

qwertyuiop said:


> I'm surprised he didn't ask you to pay his tax bill too.


Well he is presumably paying his tax out of rental profit so the tenant *IS *paying it!


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## z106 (4 Sep 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Well he is presumably paying his tax out of rental profit so the tenant *IS *paying it!


 
That's true i suppose.


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## z106 (4 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> He also charged a tenant 60 euro "call out" charge" to let him into flat(lost key) landlord was in building at the time.


 
This guy is obviously an unbelievable chancer.

He is definitely out of line with these requests.

You are definiteky in te right here.


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## penalty (5 Sep 2008)

These are not requests, they are hidden charges get rich quick scheme . I will probably take him to disputes resolution service because the outcome will be posted on the P.R. T. B. WEBSITE this will be a way of naming and shaming also alerting other tenant's and would be tenant's to his underhand method's.


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## Bronte (5 Sep 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Well he is presumably paying his tax out of rental profit so the tenant *IS *paying it!


 
 And your employer is also paying your personal taxes (PAYE) etc!    Don't think so, the landlord is paying the tax not the tenant.

OP - your landlord is way out of line charging you this, as for the 60 Euro call out charge when in the building - unbelievable and as for the PRTB going to charge you 25 Euro to dispute a 70 Euro charge - words fail me.


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## rmelly (5 Sep 2008)

Classic - he probably isn't even registered with PRTB


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## z106 (5 Sep 2008)

You can actually check if the property is registered with teh prtb by going on to their web site.

They have a list of all properties registered with them.

The list isn't necessarily up to date though - but still, it might be worth having a look.


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## penalty (5 Sep 2008)

Yes he is registered,he is using tenant's deposit's to pay registration fee,then deduct's it when tenant is leaving.


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## S.L.F (5 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> Yes he is registered,he is using tenant's deposit's to pay registration fee,then deduct's it when tenant is leaving.



So in essence the tenant is paying for the next tenant.

Also since the landlord gets tax relief on the €70 at, we assume 42%, it is only costing him €40.60 and he is pocketing the rest.

This is obliviously a pure and utter rip off, not only are you paying his bills but he is making money on the deal.

The PRTB would have a field day with him.


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## ubiquitous (5 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> I have and the person I was speaking to was not sure "grey area" . They sent me a Application for Dispute Resolution Services. This costs 25 euro . Will they know then?



Pretty much sums up the PRTB.


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## steelblue (5 Sep 2008)

Hi 

re prtb,  i have an apt which i  registered in 2004,2006 and June 2008. All different tenants. In late Aug , got letter informing me that i need to re-register as the 4 yrs are up! (ie the original registration) This just goes to show what you will be dealing with.

Write the 70 euro off and move on. No point expending energy on this type of thing. It just wont be worth it.


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## S.L.F (5 Sep 2008)

steelblue said:


> Hi
> 
> re prtb,  i have an apt which i  registered in 2004,2006 and June 2008. All different tenants. In late Aug , got letter informing me that i need to re-register as the 4 yrs are up! (ie the original registration) This just goes to show what you will be dealing with.
> 
> Write the 70 euro off and move on. No point expending energy on this type of thing. It just wont be worth it.



You weren't the OP's landlord were you.


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## penalty (5 Sep 2008)

steelblue said:


> Hi
> 
> re prtb, i have an apt which i registered in 2004,2006 and June 2008. All different tenants. In late Aug , got letter informing me that i need to re-register as the 4 yrs are up! (ie the original registration) This just goes to show what you will be dealing with.
> 
> Write the 70 euro off and move on. No point expending energy on this type of thing. It just wont be worth it.


The landlord does'nt want to write it off ! What's 70 euro ask the landlord he want's it. It will only take a small amount of time too complete dispute form and it will be worth it.


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## Bronte (8 Sep 2008)

steelblue said:


> Hi
> 
> re prtb, i have an apt which i registered in 2004,2006 and June 2008. All different tenants. In late Aug , got letter informing me that i need to re-register as the 4 yrs are up! (ie the original registration) This just goes to show what you will be dealing with.
> 
> Write the 70 euro off and move on. No point expending energy on this type of thing. It just wont be worth it.


  If you have had different tenant's you do not need to re register.  It's only if you have tenants for more than 4 years that you have to pay the fee again.


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## Capricorn 1 (8 Sep 2008)

You have to pay the fee every time you get a change of tenant, even if it is only after 6 months.  If you have more than 2 different tenants within a calendar year, then you are exempt. If you have the same tenant, you do not have to pay again for 3 or 4 years.


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## MrMan (8 Sep 2008)

I think most landlords would have the brains to build in the €70 to the price rather than blatantly take it at the end. The prtb won't have a field day he will get a letter and then he will say I'll pay them the €70 and prtb will ask you to drop the case in which you should.


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## steelblue (8 Sep 2008)

Hi 

for the record, 

I am not the op's landlord.

I pay the PRTB registration myself and dont build it into the rent. I see it as a cost of doing business which i claim on my tax return.

Each new tenancy must be registered with the PRTB.


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## S.L.F (8 Sep 2008)

MrMan said:


> I think most landlords would have the brains to build in the €70 to the price rather than blatantly take it at the end. The prtb won't have a field day he will get a letter and then he will say I'll pay them the €70 and prtb will ask you to drop the case in which you should.



That is all very well assuming the LL has brains he will pay the €70 back to the OP but supposing the Op doesn't push the issue, then the next tenant will get stunk by this rogue LL.

If the OP pushes the issue to the PRTB then the next time this LL comes up before them they will have a record of the LL and what he is up to.



steelblue said:


> Hi
> 
> for the record,
> 
> I am not the op's landlord.



Sorry steelblue I forgot to put in a .


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## ubiquitous (8 Sep 2008)

S.L.F said:


> That is all very well assuming the LL has brains he will pay the €70 back to the OP but supposing the Op doesn't push the issue, then the next tenant will get stunk by this rogue LL.
> 
> If the OP pushes the issue to the PRTB then the next time this LL comes up before them they will have a record of the LL and what he is up to.



But presumably if the landlord simply amends the letting agreement to state that the tenant forfeits the €70 "fee" on early termination of a tenancy, he is well within his rights to do so?


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## MrMan (8 Sep 2008)

> That is all very well assuming the LL has brains he will pay the €70 back to the OP but supposing the Op doesn't push the issue, then the next tenant will get stunk by this rogue LL.


I would think that even though its only €70 most landlords will fit a charge in during the course of a tenancy to cover what they see as an extra cost, and it won't be going back to tenant.


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## Bessa (8 Sep 2008)

Hi Steelblue i got similar letter last week, which they could have checked themselves in their office. Is this what we are paying for.


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## S.L.F (8 Sep 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> But presumably if the landlord simply amends the letting agreement to state that the tenant forfeits the €70 "fee" on early termination of a tenancy, he is well within his rights to do so?



I'm glad you put a '?' at the end of your post.

I would think that because someone terminates their lease early then it is possible for a landlord to keep their deposit so how could they put another charge of €70 on top of that.



MrMan said:


> I would think that even though its only €70 most landlords will fit a charge in during the course of a tenancy to cover what they see as an extra cost, and it won't be going back to tenant.



I don't see it as simple as a case of its only €70 I believe it is another business expense that needs paying.

I don't believe tenants should be charged for what is an expense that LL's should pay anymore than I'd charge a tenant for putting paint onto a wall before they move in.

Basically I believe it is wrong for any LL to charge a tenant extra for the PRTB fees.


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## ubiquitous (8 Sep 2008)

S.L.F said:


> I'm glad you put a '?' at the end of your post.


Well it was a question


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## penalty (8 Sep 2008)

MrMan said:


> I think most landlords would have the brains to build in the €70 to the price rather than blatantly take it at the end. The prtb won't have a field day he will get a letter and then he will say I'll pay them the €70 and prtb will ask you to drop the case in which you should.


 If your analysis is correct, will the P.R.T.B. refund my 25 euro? If not I may as well go ahead.


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## penalty (8 Sep 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> But presumably if the landlord simply amends the letting agreement to state that the tenant forfeits the €70 "fee" on early termination of a tenancy, he is well within his rights to do so?


Have a meeting with my solicitor on unrelated matter,I will query this with him .


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## S.L.F (8 Sep 2008)

Sorry couldn't understand where the question was


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## MrMan (9 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> If your analysis is correct, will the P.R.T.B. refund my 25 euro? If not I may as well go ahead.




You get your money back if your sucessful as far as I know, if the case is dropped i would presume you get it back aswell but clarify that with the prtb.


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## ubiquitous (9 Sep 2008)

penalty said:


> Have a meeting with my solicitor on unrelated matter,I will query this with him .



Do let us know what (s)he says. Many thanks.


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## penalty (9 Sep 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Do let us know what (s)he says. Many thanks.


He is just after telling me that the L.L. pay's this and he cannot under any circumstance's charge this to any tenant. He also tell's me to put a claim in for the 25 euro charge.


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