# Car accident on a roundabout... insurance situation



## Irish Garden (9 Dec 2006)

Hello there everybody.
My girlfriend was involved in a minor tip on a roundabout last night.
She was on the outer lane of the roundabout and the other car involved was in the inner lane.
The story goes that the other driver tried to enter her lane upon exiting the roundabout and thats when the accident occoured (all hearsay as I was not there).
There was minimal damage to her driver side wing whereas the other car had a bit more in passenger door damage.
Both drivers pulled in off the roundabout and both claimed the other was at fault.
The guards were called, they took and exchanged details.
As is often the case with roundabouts the guards said it was 50/50 and they should sort it out beween them. 
The guards left the scene but the other driver was still claiming my girlfriend was at fault.

I suppose my first question is......
What should be done tomorrow?   Will my girlfriend just reporting the accident/incident to the insurance company cause the loss of her no-claims bonus. I should mention that for the small amout of damage caused to her car, my girlfriend wishes to take the situation no further and repair it herself. 

My second question is....
Will her insurance company just pay out to the other driver, only for us to find out at the next renewal time. Or will there be a drawn out affair if both parties contest.


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## Guest127 (9 Dec 2006)

think she was on the inner lane and he was on the outer lane. (on a road the right hand side is the outer lane) was she exiting the road at this junction too or just the other driver? if so was there two lanes at the exit or only one? was the exit at 12 oclock or less from where she entered the roundabout. if so she had a right to be in the lane she was in. unfortunately think all accidents on roundabouts are deemed to be 50/50 by the gardai.


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## Irish Garden (9 Dec 2006)

cuchulainn said:


> think she was on the inner lane and he was on the outer lane. (on a road the right hand side is the outer lane)


So she was on whats called the inner lane according to that.
To explain it more... she was in the lane on the left as you travel round, and the lane that is furthest away from the central island.




cuchulainn said:


> was she exiting the road at this junction too or just the other driver?


Yes, she was.




cuchulainn said:


> if so was there two lanes at the exit or only one?


Two




cuchulainn said:


> was the exit at 12 oclock or less from where she entered the roundabout. if so she had a right to be in the lane she was in.


That I will have to find out, as she is in bed sleeping off the incident before work again at 7-30


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## ACA (9 Dec 2006)

If she was on the outside lane of the roundabout and TP was on the inside land and there were 2 lanes to exit the roundabout THEN it comes down to who crossed into the others path. Either insurance company would instruct an assessor to view both vehicles to determine who hit who. If TP hit yr g/f then there would be an initial dent to her vehicle and scrape marks down the side of their vehicle, (as they veered away from hers). If yr g/f hit them there would be scraping marks on her vehicle also at the point of impact.

I would inform yr g/f's insurance company, telling them that liability is disputed and get them to resolve the issue. Neither insurance company is just going to pay out without investigation and in the event that she was not at fault, her NCB will not be affected as there will be no claim on her policy. In the event that it is deemed 50-50, each insurance company looks after their own and since you say yr g/f isn't going to claim - again her NCB will not be affected. If investigation proves that yr g/f WAS at fault, she could pay TP herself or leave the insurance company to pay-out and reimburse them again protecting her NCB. Whatever the two of you decide - I would inform yr insurance company to protect yr interests IN CASE the other party now decides that they are injured. Thats what you pay insurance for!


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## Guest127 (9 Dec 2006)

looks like both lanes were occupied by drivers both exiting at the same exit, which has two lanes to exit onto. so now its straight  - did you g/f drift out into the outer lane or did the t/p cut into the inner lane. if t/p did cut in then IMO they were totally at fault as 1) your g/f was occupying that lane with the intention of taking the next exit, 2) the t/p had taken a position on the roundabout consistant with wanting to exit on the outer lane so should not have crossed or tried to cross into inner lane at exit. 
maybe have a look at the point of impact as descriped by ACA and make a call. does sound to me like t/p cut in though it both were taking the same exit and there was 2 exit lanes.


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## Irish Garden (9 Dec 2006)

Thanks for the replies, folks.
ACA & cuchulainn, the damage is just as described by ACA.... "If TP hit yr g/f then there would be an initial dent to her vehicle and scrape marks down the side of their vehicle, (as they veered away from hers).
The damage to my girlfriends driverside front wing is so small that some touch-up paint would fix it, whereas the other party has a scratch all along the passenger door.
He even said last night that he recieved more damage as he had to veer away.
We are quite happy to fix our own small damage and to this end I have just reported the "incident" to the insurer.
I suppose if the other party wants to pursue a claim, then an assessor might find in favour of us causing the whole thing to back-fire on the third party.  [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


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## Seagull (11 Dec 2006)

Who hit who does not necessarily establish who's at fault. If your girlfriend veered across into the right hand exit lane, then she's at fault. The point where impact was made is what would determine who is at fault. If it was in the right hand exit, your girlfriend is at fault. If in the left hand exit lane, the other driver is at fault.


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## aldark (11 Dec 2006)

IMO, the rules of the road are unclear wrt a two lane roundabout leading to a two lane exit.
Theoretically, for an exit > 12:00 at the roundabout, all traffic should be on the inner (right-hand) lane - standard practice for going around the roundabout.  On approaching the exit, car should indicate, and move into appropriate lane for exit of roundabout - in a two lane exit this could mean either moving into the outer (left-hand) lane.  Here normal rules apply  - the outer lane should be clear before moving into it.  But, these kind of roundabouts are commonly seen on motorway onramps or exits, so would there be a situation where a car could legally occupy the outer lane for the exit ie. approaching the roundabout to take the first left or straight-on exits?

This is why the guards leave it up to drivers to resolve the situation - too messy for them to get involved!


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## RS2K (11 Dec 2006)

aldark said:


> IMO, the rules of the road are unclear wrt a two lane roundabout leading to a two lane exit.
> * Theoretically, for an exit > 12:00 at the roundabout, all traffic should be on the inner (right-hand) lane - standard practice for going around the roundabout.* On approaching the exit, car should indicate, and move into appropriate lane for exit of roundabout - in a two lane exit this could mean either moving into the outer (left-hand) lane. Here normal rules apply - the outer lane should be clear before moving into it. But, these kind of roundabouts are commonly seen on motorway onramps or exits, so would there be a situation where a car could legally occupy the outer lane for the exit ie. approaching the roundabout to take the first left or straight-on exits?
> 
> This is why the guards leave it up to drivers to resolve the situation - too messy for them to get involved!



I don't agree at all.

It perfectly within the rules of the road to take either lane in the situation you've described.


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## LS400 (11 Dec 2006)

As far as i am aware, the rule "yield right of way" still applys on a roundabout, If your g/f car was hit on the passangers side you are more than in the right than the other person an vice versa.


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## aldark (11 Dec 2006)

RS2K - not sure if I've explained myself correctly, car is approaching roundabout at 6:00 intending to take a turn past 12:00 - see rules of the road hosted .

Note that the ROTR doesn't cover a 2-lane exit from the roundabout.


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## RS2K (11 Dec 2006)

If the exit is after the straight ahead (or 12.00) the inside or right hand lane only should be used. 

For a double road in and double road out roundabout with a 6.00 entry and 12.00 exit using either lane is ok.

Actually that diagram is quite good.


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## Guest127 (11 Dec 2006)

notice that on the instructions for diagrams that it mentions left hand and right hand lanes -no mention of inner or outer lanes , which I admit has me confused. if you are on the outer lane of a road and you approach aroundabout surely it doesnt become the inner lane for the duration of the roundabout and then revert to outer lane?  anyway by the sounds of the accident the 2nd diagram shows both cars exiting the lanes  they have occupied at the roundabout, and this is where the crux lies. did  one drift out or one cut in?


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## I Mallon (11 Dec 2006)

Seagull, i think has called it right. The vital point is the impact area.

One point arises, was your GF on the RAbout first? In otherwords did the 3pty enter onto the r/about before her and as such was almost overtaking on the roundabout? 

My gut feeling is that the 3pty is at fault here.

I still think that in the circumstances each shd fix their own.
Only problem would be if there is a claim for injuries lodged.

This is governed by PIAB legislation now and is a long drawn out affair.

Thanks


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## John_DI (12 Dec 2006)

Hi

The new proposed rules of the road gives a much better explanation of use of roundabouts.   (Which the Dept of Transport copied from the British Highway code, with just some very slight cosmetic changes.)

See Here   Roundabouts Ireland

Using these rules as a guide, the accident would not have happened if

The TD


> When taking the last exit or going full circle
> 
> 
> * *check for traffic on your left,*
> * .



or/and

if GF


> In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
> 
> 
> * *traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit*



From the damage and the attitude of the TD, I would guess they crossed over in front of  the GF.  (Giving her no time to avoid the collision ?).  

They either did not check to the left or if they did, still crossed over irregardless,  assuming (wrongly) they had the right of way.

Irrespective of the situation.,  you can only change lanes if safe to do so.  The vehicle already in that lane has priority.

If the GF had driven into the side of the other car, damage would have been much different, the TD would have been T-boned, instead looks like the other car more or less richocheted off the GF.  The OP did not mention it, but speed could also be a factor. 

IMHO, the GF while maybe not 100% blameless, should have been watching for cars exiting from the inside lane,  the TD is by far the main culprit.

Both paying for their own damage seems the best solution.  The TD suffered the most damage, which is fair, they were mostly to blame.  

Rgds


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## Aidomoss (12 Dec 2006)

Irish Garden, You haven't said if yr g/f was taking an exit past 12 O'clock? Also did the TP enter the roundabout at the same entrance as yr g/f? 
        If they entered together and were taking second exit together with 2 lanes off then TP should not have come over onto her lane. TP at fault!
        If TP entered the roundabout at a entrance before yr g/f and was taking 3rd exit for him, and she was taking her 2nd exit, then she should not have been up beside him as he has right of way being on the roundabout first. Yr g/f at fault.
        If they entered the roundabout together and both were going to 3rd exit then she was in the wrong lane, and therefore she should not have been beside TP as she should have takin 1 of the first 2 exits. Yr g/f at fault. 

There are other scenario's but these seem most probable!!!! Hope this helps!!!


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## murphy05 (31 Dec 2006)

You should come to Tralee and try using the roundabouts. 
It is an experience and not a good one. Each roundabout has a different rule for entering and exiting, including the same roundabout from different directions and these 'rules' are painted on the road. 

God help the visitors and locals!!!

Maybe the road safety should start advertising the correct procedure for entering and exiting. 

Roundabouts are accidents waiting to happen.


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