# Now I've heard it all. - Landlords are entitled to job seekers benefit!?



## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

Looking at another thread https://askaboutmoney.com/threads/non-resident-landlord-prsi-charge-on-income-tax-bill.193247/
i came across the fact that resident landlords who receive all their unearned income from property and pay a S class PRSI are not only considered self employed but are also entitled to a state pension. Whether they ever worked in the state or not. Ok fine.

But looking a little closer it actually seems from the gov.ie website if you pay the required number of PRSi S class contributions you are ALSO entitled to job seekers benefit.??! How is this possible?

A Mortgage holiday AND free cash!?! (I’m assuming of course the rental income to these self employed landlords have dried up completely for whatever reason and it was there only stream of income but still..)

From gov.ie website:
To qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit (Self-Employed), you must satisfy two PRSI contribution conditions.

Condition 1
You must have 156 Class “S” contributions paid or 104 Class “A” contributions paid since entering insurable employment.

Condition 2
You must have 52 Class “S” contributions paid in the governing contribution year.

The governing contribution year is the second last complete tax year before the year in which the claim is made. For example, for claims made in 2019, the governing contribution year is 2017.

Am I reading this correctly?


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## Setanta12 (28 Apr 2020)

Are these non-resident landlords available for immediate work? If not, they cannot qualify.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (28 Apr 2020)

You have to be _seeking _a _job _to qualify for _jobseeker's _benefit.


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

Setanta12 said:


> Are these non-resident landlords available for immediate work? If not, they cannot qualify.



No its resident landlords.


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You have to be _seeking _a _job _to qualify for _jobseeker's _benefit.



Yes currently having no income from empty properties so they can get benefit, of course they have to be available to work, which of course they will find once the property market picks up....


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

deleted


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

Setanta12 said:


> Are these non-resident landlords available for immediate work? If not, they cannot qualify.





NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You have to be _seeking _a _job _to qualify for _jobseeker's _benefit.



The point is how is it possible those with no income from their properties due to the virus issues can access BENEFIT payments? while accessing mortgage holiday breaks as well?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (28 Apr 2020)

anntionette said:


> The point is how is it possible those with no income from their properties due to the virus issues can access BENEFIT payments? while accessing mortgage holiday breaks as well?



I don't know the intricacies.

I presume you would have to have *both *lost all rental income *and *be seeking a job to replace that income.


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I don't know the intricacies.
> 
> I presume you would have to have *both *lost all rental income *and *be seeking a job to replace that income.



I presume so. I'm just flabbergasted its not means tested...


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## RedOnion (28 Apr 2020)

anntionette said:


> A Mortgage holiday AND free cash!?! (I’m assuming of course the rental income to these self employed landlords have dried up completely for whatever reason and it was there only stream of income but still..)


You've read the full criteria to qualify for job seekers if self employed?


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## Leper (28 Apr 2020)

Well, if they've paid their taxes and complied with every law and fulfil terms, then of course they are entitled to claim.


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

RedOnion said:


> You've read the full criteria to qualify for job seekers if self employed?


I think I have. Or am I missing something? but Yes, In as much detail as I can.

3 years of S class contributions AND 
Second Contribution Condition

From 5th January 2009 a person must have at least 39 reckonable contributions paid or credited in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) and 13 of these contributions must be paid contributions
OR

A person must have at least 26 reckonable contributions paid in both the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) and the year immediately preceding the GCY.
If a person does not have 13 paid contributions in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) he/she must have the 13 contributions paid in any one of the following years:

The two tax years before the relevant tax year
The last complete tax year
or

The current tax year

and Bingo you’ve satisfied the benefit criteria.
Obviously empty or reduced occupancy of properties. But benefit is NOT means tested.


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## anntionette (28 Apr 2020)

Leper said:


> Well, if they've paid their taxes and complied with every law and fulfil terms, then of course they are entitled to claim.


Yes of course but isn’t anyone surprised that an air B&b 10 property landlord can claim benefit? And still retain properties?


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## Leper (28 Apr 2020)

Landlords provide a service like everybody else. It's their occupation. For some reason (probably based on Irish History) Landlords get a bad press. They are human and deserve to be treated like other humans.


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## RedOnion (28 Apr 2020)

anntionette said:


> and Bingo you’ve satisfied the benefit criteria.


You've satisfied the PRSI piece. Not the unemployed piece...


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## Saavy99 (28 Apr 2020)

It's only in recent years, self employed people can access job seekers benefit, prior to that they only had access to means tested job seekers allowance.


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## DK123 (28 Apr 2020)

We are all in this together. Lets appreciate any help that the Landlord or the tenent gets .Metinks! C.S.[common sense]


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## huskerdu (28 Apr 2020)

And are you also annoyed that if someone with a house worth €2M ,  a holiday home  , €100k in investments and a €500k pension fund loses their job , they get job seekers benefit with no means test and gets to keep all their assets , or is it only landlords ?


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## The Horseman (28 Apr 2020)

RedOnion said:


> You've satisfied the PRSI piece. Not the unemployed piece...


So if you have a business not generating an income should you get jobseekers allowance. If yes why are landlords different. Both are businesses with no income.


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## RedOnion (28 Apr 2020)

The Horseman said:


> If yes why are landlords different


I never said they were different. The thread is about jobseekers benefit.

The criteria for 'Jobseekers Benefit (self employed)', is that you have ceased your self employment. Not that you temporarily have no income. But that you have ceased. And not voluntarily.


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## anntionette (29 Apr 2020)

RedOnion said:


> I never said they were different. The thread is about jobseekers benefit.
> 
> The criteria for 'Jobseekers Benefit (self employed)', is that you have ceased your self employment. Not that you temporarily have no income. But that you have ceased. And not voluntarily.



Thanks RedOnion but at the moment anyone self employed can apply for the pandemic payment where they temporarily have no income. They do not have to have ceased their business. Then after the payment ceases they can apply for benefit payment should they still find they’re properties still empty.


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## RedOnion (29 Apr 2020)

anntionette said:


> can apply for the pandemic payment


Ah, so your thread title and opening post are wrong, and you're referring to the pandemic payment, and not jobseekers at all?

It would have saved everyone a lot of time if you'd started out with that.


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## cremeegg (29 Apr 2020)

Some years ago John Halligan called landlords "Bastards" He may have departed the scene but the poison he spread lives after him.


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## Black Sheep (29 Apr 2020)

Jobseekers Benefit is *not* a means tested payment. It is based on the fact that you have lost your job and have paid your PRSI.


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## anntionette (30 Apr 2020)

RedOnion said:


> Ah, so your thread title and opening post are wrong, and you're referring to the pandemic payment, and not jobseekers at all?
> 
> It would have saved everyone a lot of time if you'd started out with that.


 No. I AM referring to the benefit payment. i was just correcting your incorrect comment that a self employed f/t landlord must actually cease business to receive benefits they are entitled to under the S class contributions. I am talking about claiming social welfare benefit as it pertains to today. Not yesteryear.  Pandemic payment is a side note.


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## anntionette (30 Apr 2020)

Black Sheep said:


> Jobseekers Benefit is *not* a means tested payment. It is based on the fact that you have lost your job and have paid your PRSI.



How does this apply to a self employed landlord, Whose properties are all empty but has paid all their required Benefit PRSI contributions?


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## RedOnion (30 Apr 2020)

anntionette said:


> No. I AM referring to the benefit payment


Which benefit payment are you actually talking about?


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## anntionette (30 Apr 2020)

RedOnion said:


> Which benefit payment are you actually talking about?




Jobseeker's Benefit (Self-Employed)....

From gov.ie website:
To qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit (Self-Employed), you must satisfy two PRSI contribution conditions.

Condition 1
You must have 156 Class “S” contributions paid or 104 Class “A” contributions paid since entering insurable employment.

Condition 2
You must have 52 Class “S” contributions paid in the governing contribution year.

The governing contribution year is the second last complete tax year before the year in which the claim is made. For example, for claims made in 2019, the governing contribution year is 2017.


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## Silvius (30 Apr 2020)

Landlords are not entitled to the state pension, even though they pay PRSI.


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## jpd (30 Apr 2020)

Class S PRSI entitles you to the following benefits - see here https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/6e5b2e-prsi-class-s-rates/
*Class S benefits*


Adoptive Benefit
Guardian’s Payment (Contributory)
Invalidity Pension (since December 2017)
Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-Employed) (since November 2019)
Maternity Benefit
Parent’s Benefit (since November 2019)
Paternity Benefit
State Pension (Contributory)
Treatment Benefit (since March 2017)
Widow’s, Widower’s or Surviving Civil Partner’s (Contributory) Pension.


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## jpd (30 Apr 2020)

Silvius said:


> Landlords are not entitled to the state pension, even though they pay PRSI.


Not true - maybe you meant don't deserve but they are certainly entitled


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## anntionette (30 Apr 2020)

Silvius said:


> Landlords are not entitled to the state pension, even though they pay PRSI.


I believe this has already been established as fact on this forum. (ill try find the link for you. I was surprised myself) Because If they pay the correct class of contributions which I believe is S class then they are entitled to the sate pension.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Apr 2020)

That's all folks


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