# Did Nua Homeloans offer Trackers?



## Metatron (15 Oct 2019)

Hi, everyone. I was wondering if Nua Homeloans offered trackers mortgages. The reason I ask is because I came across a consumer credit act information notice from Nua stating that Nua Homeloans variable rates would directly track the ECB main refinancing rate. However a standard variable rate has been applied to the mortgage to date. Nua Homeloans merged with Start Mortgages. I find no mention of Nua Homeloans in the Central Bank Tracker Mortgage Examination. Can anyone shed a bit of light?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Oct 2019)

Hi

Don't worry about what they did or didn't do.  They did so few loans, that I am not sure there is  a right answer to this question.

If you have a Nua mortgage, what does the contract say?   If the contract says that it tracks the ECB rate, then you should have been on a tracker.

If it's not in your contract, but you received a document at the time telling you that the rate would track the ECB rate, then you should also have been given a tracker.

Of course, Nua was a sub-prime lender so  their SVR was probably ECB +3% at the time.  And they might well be charging that now anyway.
from https://www.irishtimes.com/business/finance-ireland-sells-stake-in-nua-homeloans-1.968982

_ Nua charges customers a rate on their mortgages that is on average 3 per cent above the European Central Bank's base rate.

At current rates, Nua customers are paying an average rate of 7 per cent, substantially higher than the standard variable rate of about 5.2-5.4 per cent currently available in the market._



What date did you take out your mortgage and what was the SVR at the time?

What rate are you paying now?

Brendan


----------



## Metatron (15 Oct 2019)

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for responding so quickly. I took out the mortgage in 2007, at one stage I was paying over 10%, at the moment I am on around 6.5%. The CCA letter was sent to me after filling in the mortgage application, congratulating me that my mortgage application had been successful but before I accepted the loan offer if that is of any use. The CCA notice wording reads as follows:

“The interest rate applicable to the Variable Rate Loans will directly track the movements of the European Central Bank Rate (“the ECB Rate”).

The loan offer itself only says variable rate.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Oct 2019)

Hi Tetatron 

I think you have a very good case for a tracker but it would depend on what the initial margin was.   I doubt it was ECB + 6.5%, but it might have been.
Do you have your original loan offer?  What rate was mentioned in it? 
and what was the date?
Brendan


----------



## Metatron (15 Oct 2019)

Hi Brendan,

I was referred to a company called Adeptum Limited. They worked out my mortgage when I drew down the loan was ECB + 4.55%. They have a few similar cases and have been on to the Central Bank about the issue. They are currently preparing my complaint and if Start Mortgages don’t put me back on a tracker they will sent a complaint off to the financial ombudsman. They were of the same view as you that I have a good case. I posted onto the site to see if anyone else had complained and what their outcome was, Adeptum said Nua Homeloans complaint’s are unusual because in December 2007 Nua Homeloans wrote out to their customers, including me, informing me they were changing the terms and conditions of my mortgage and that my mortgage was now going to be tracking the three month Euribor Rate, whatever that is. The company said it is quite unbelievable. 

Anyway thank you for you opinion, it has bolstered my determination to see the matter true.


----------



## RedOnion (15 Oct 2019)

Metatron said:


> informing me they were changing the terms and conditions of my mortgage and that my mortgage was now going to be tracking the three month Euribor Rate,


I wonder if they are honouring this? 3 month EURIBOR has been negative since early 2016, so should be even lower than an ECB tracker.

EURIBOR mortgages are fully in the scope of CBI tracker review.


----------



## Metatron (15 Oct 2019)

Hi RedOnion,

The company I went to said that a lender cannot change the pricing index of my loan without my written consent, they said if that was the case, that there would never have been a tracker mortgage examination by the Central Bank in the first place.

In 2010 Nua changed my loan again, this time to track its cost of funds


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Oct 2019)

If you had a SVR mortgage where they can vary the rate at their discretion, then changing that to tracking an index seems reasonable. 

However, if you had a tracker tracking the ECB rate, then they could not do it without your agreement. 

ECB +4.55% in 2007 would have been 8.55% . 

Today, your rate would be 4.55% instead of 6.5%. 

Has Start replied to you or Adeptum? 

By the way, I have not heard of Adeptum? Do you have a link or can you provide any further information on them? 

Brendan


----------



## Metatron (16 Oct 2019)

Hi Brendan,

Start Mortgages has not received my complaint yet as Adeptum was in consultation with the Central Bank about cases they have on their books. Have a pint or two onboard, but Adeptum Limited are great. They appear sincere and are not money grabbers. The owner Aidan is a forensic accountant, he has about twenty or so people working for him. They are based in Milltown Dublin 14. He told me the company was set up only a few months ago. He also has access to solicitors and barristers. He seems to be the real McCoy. 
They are also dealing with my  investment property that is with Mars Capital (originally with Springboard Mortgages) and are making headway.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (16 Oct 2019)

Metatron said:


> Start Mortgages has not received my complaint yet as Adeptum was in consultation with the Central Bank about cases they have on their books.



I have to say that this is a very odd approach. 

If you have a complaint or a claim, the first action is to submit it to the company.   If it's as clear as you suggest it is, Start should turn around and acknowledge it and give you back your tracker. 

If it's a systemic issue, then by all means bring it to the attention of the Central Bank. 

Brendan


----------



## Metatron (16 Oct 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I have to say that this is a very odd approach.
> 
> If you have a complaint or a claim, the first action is to submit it to the company.   If it's as clear as you suggest it is, Start should turn around and acknowledge it and give you back your tracker.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Brendan,
Adeptum believe it is a systemic issue. They also had to wait some time until I got  my data access request. Typical forensic accountants, they want to see every shred of paper before they commit to writing my complaint. I suppose they are only been thorough and don’t want to go off half cocked.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (16 Oct 2019)

Hi Metatron

I have no problem with waiting for the data access request.  But when you are ready with your complaint, you should contact the lender. 

The response from the CB will be "Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We do not engage in individual cases. go to the Ombudsman" 

Brendan


----------



## Metatron (16 Oct 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Metatron
> 
> I have no problem with waiting for the data access request.  But when you are ready with your complaint, you should contact the lender.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brendan for your insight and advice, you can be sure my complaint will be winging its way to Start Mortgages in the very near future. It seems a bit strange that Start Mortgages was not included in the Central Bank Tracker Mortgage Examination.


----------



## RedOnion (16 Oct 2019)

Metatron said:


> It seems a bit strange that Start Mortgages was not included in the Central Bank Tracker Mortgage Examination.


The current licenced entity were included.


----------



## Metatron (17 Oct 2019)

RedOnion said:


> The current licenced entity were included.


Hi Red Onion,

Can you or Brendan guide me through how to post a photo of the Nua Homeloans Consumer Credit Act notice onto the forum, so that I can your opinions about its consequences?


----------



## Jazz01 (17 Oct 2019)

Metatron,

When you reply to a thread, there is a menu on that thread, with the option of attachments:






If you click on that icon (insert image (or press "Ctrl" and "p") ) you can upload the image or drag/drop the image from your computer directly into the pop up.


----------



## Metatron (17 Oct 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Metatron
> 
> I have no problem with waiting for the data access request.  But when you are ready with your complaint, you should contact the lender.
> 
> ...




Hi Brendan,

Here is the Consumer Credit Act Notice that Nua Homeloans sent to me just before I signed the loan offer. The loan offer itself only states that my loan is variable. However, the Consumer Credit Act Notice states that the interest rate applicable to Variable Rate Loans will directly track the movements of the “ECB Rate”.

Brendan, what do you think?


----------



## RedOnion (17 Oct 2019)

On face value, that looks like a tracker to me.

I had a quick look, and Start were one of the initial 15 banks that CBI tracker examination included.
However, they identified no impacted customers, so they're not included in remediation scope. That could be either they thought they had no trackers, or they thought nobody had been impacted. Either way, Start have told the CBI nobody was incorrectly removed from a tracker rate.

As far as CBI are currently concerned, there's nothing to look at re Start.


----------



## Metatron (17 Oct 2019)

Thanks Red Onion,

I think that’s what Adeptum we’re onto the Central Bank about. I wonder did the Central Bank just take Start Mortgages word on it about not been impacted or did they physically examine Start’s mortgage book documentation particularly Nua Homeloans. Aidan also said something about possible prospectus fraud and market manipulation but I didn’t understand never mind take it in. I just took notes of what he said and wrote those words down.


----------



## RedOnion (17 Oct 2019)

Metatron said:


> Aidan also said something about possible prospectus fraud and market manipulation but I didn’t understand never mind take it in. I


All irrelevant. CBI have opened the doors on the tracker issue, so there's no need to be looking for anything fancy, in my view.

CBI didn't look at the books of any bank - they all provided data for which they are accountable.

Edit: my post might have sounded dismissive of another professionals work. That wasn't my intention if it's how it's read. Lots of these legal angles are really important when you're taking an action against a bank, and I've been on the other side of documents prepared by people doing similar work.
However, the CBI has put processes in place in relation to trackers to remove the need for lots of these arguments. There are thousands of people who have got their trackers back in scenarios that wouldn't have won in a high court action. The tracker examination process should be exhausted before looking for clever angles. Start might not even know these documents exist if the loans had already been changed to something else before they merged.


----------



## Metatron (17 Oct 2019)

RedOnion said:


> All irrelevant. CBI have opened the doors on the tracker issue, so there's no need to be looking for anything fancy, in my view.
> 
> CBI didn't look at the books of any bank - they all provided data for which they are accountable.
> 
> ...



Thanks Red Onion, comments appreciated,

Do you think the Central Bank would reopen the tracker mortgage examination now, as it appears from reading Nua’s Consumer Credit Act Notice that all Nua Homeloans variable rate loans are tracker Mortgages?

Do you think I have got a valid case to be put onto a tracker rate?


----------



## Dpdp01050842 (17 Oct 2019)

Go straight to NUA

Ask to be put on a tracker and refunded any overpayment

If they say no go direct to the Ombudsman  with a complaint detailing it all with back up of the loan documentation showing you were entitled to a tracker.


----------



## Metatron (18 Oct 2019)

Dpdp01050842 said:


> Go straight to NUA
> 
> Ask to be put on a tracker and refunded any overpayment
> 
> If they say no go direct to the Ombudsman  with a complaint detailing it all with back up of the loan documentation showing you were entitled to a tracker.



Thanks Dpdp, 
Nua Homeloans merged with Start Mortgages a good while back so they do not exist anymore, complaint is on the way to Start Mortgages.

Looking back on my old Nua statements they also charged me a monthly arrears fee of 50 euro, even if I was in arrears by a 10’er.


----------



## Metatron (19 Oct 2019)

Hi Red Onipn,

If I get my tracker mortgage reinstated will my Credit Rating be automatically restored to health. You see, I am in arrears and tried to get a car loan from the credit Union but was declined due to my credit rating.?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (19 Oct 2019)

That upload did not work. You need to try again.


----------



## Metatron (19 Oct 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That upload did not work. You need to try again.



Hi Brendan,

Here is the Consumer Credit Act Notice. I was wondering if you or somebody could bring this to the attention of the Central Bank and Government as borrowers like me appear to have fallen through the cracks. They are meeting before the Oireachtas Finance Committee on Thursday 24th October.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (19 Oct 2019)

Forget the Central Bank

Just show this to your lender and they should implement it immediately.

Do you know how long the Central Bank takes to do things? 

brendan


----------



## Metatron (20 Oct 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Forget the Central Bank
> 
> Just show this to your lender and they should implement it immediately.
> 
> ...


 
I will complain to Start Mortgages, but I was just thinking of all the other potential borrowers impacted. If the Central Bank Tracker Mortgage Examination misses the whole lot of us on variable loan rates at Nua Homeloans who and what else did it miss!


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Oct 2019)

Don't worry about that now.

Sort out your own loss first. Get the process moving and get your interest rate and balance corrected.

When you have sorted that out, then you can send your file to the Central Bank. 

Brendan


----------



## Metatron (21 Oct 2019)

Thanks Brendan and Red Onion, Adeptum Limited are submitting my complaint. I will keep ye updated as matters progress. Thanks again.


----------



## Bigburd56 (12 Jul 2020)

Metatron said:


> Hi Brendan,
> 
> Start Mortgages has not received my complaint yet as Adeptum was in consultation with the Central Bank about cases they have on their books. Have a pint or two onboard, but Adeptum Limited are great. They appear sincere and are not money grabbers. The owner Aidan is a forensic accountant, he has about twenty or so people working for him. They are based in Milltown Dublin 14. He told me the company was set up only a few months ago. He also has access to solicitors and barristers. He seems to be the real McCoy.


They are also dealing with my  investment property that is with Mars Capital (originally with Springboard Mortgages) and are making headway.


----------

