# Heating Headache New Build



## krissovo (5 Nov 2008)

I am starting a new build and my head is about to explode with how am I going to heat the place.  I need real advice of a tried and tested solution that will not cost 50k to fit and have high running costs.

*The build and HRV*
My home will be 2550 sqft and is going to be constructed from ICF so it should be airtight and well insulated.  One area that is a no brainier is that I am putting in HRV but the quotes coming back to me are all in the region of €7.5k with a few at €10k + so my first question is can I get it for cheaper?  I used to live in Germany and I know its around €3 to €4k to fit there.

*Heating*
For the past 6 months I have been investigating heating and I have swayed from Wood pellet to geo to heat pumps etc.  Again the prices are over inflated and margins from some of these companies must be 200% or so.  I am now of the opinion that renewable energies are not worth the investment just yet so I am thinking of just going with oil for a price of €3k for install and look in 5 years time to replace this with a well tried system.

Passive is the way forward but there is no such thing as a true passive house, its a pipe dream as there will be some form of heating unless you live in the desert but my home should be cheap to heat as we are innvesting alot in insulation and decent windows and have a build that should have a great solar gain.

*Questions:*


Heat pumps - Does anyone have any real data on the running costs of these for both geo and air source?  I keep hearing horror stories that electricity bills are double with these (wood pellet boiler salesmen) but I also hear some of them use next to nothing (heat pump salesmen).  The quotes I have for these are around €12k for heating only, this price is crazy!!  Any better quotes out there?  Can a system provide hot water as well?
Woodpellet - Are these a worth while investment just now?  Again air pump salesmen state they are useless and running costs are higher than heat pumps.
Solar - The cost IMO is far to high again in Germany I can get a decent system for half the Irish price but I could not trust an Irish company to fit a German system.  Any one have a good working system bought from Ireland at a realistic price (remember new builds do not get grants)?
Indipendant Consultants - These are joke and will only try and get you to buy a system endorsed by them with a huge markup.  Is there a true indipant energy consultant?
*A good system* - Can anyone recomend a complete system that is not expensive to fit and has reasonable running costs?
Can anyone help before I lose my marbles completely.  Is there a company out there that will not rip me off?


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## wexford dude (5 Nov 2008)

Krissovo,

I understand exactly what you are looking for.I had the same issues when I started my own build in 2006.I have not installed any of the renewable energy systems as you are correct the prices are inflated.
The only assistance I can give you is that I went for oil as it was part of the plumber's quote.The burner is located beside the garage and I ran the 4'' pre-insulated flow and return pipe into the house (expensive pipe but worth it).I have left an opening in the garage floor that if I ever find a wood pellet burner that WORKS and is a fair price then I will  go for it.
Alternatively I have ample space in the back garden to put in geothermal if at some future date I decide to go with ufh - over 2/3 of house is currently on suspended floor therefore can be up-dated in future.

Personally I think the renewable energy installers that are still around in 18 months know what they are on about and probaly have a product that works.The rest will be proven to have been chancers.


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## krissovo (5 Nov 2008)

Thanks dude, I like the idea of the return pipe in the garage/boiler house.


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## rmdt (5 Nov 2008)

Krissovo,

Whats happened the blog updates?  I used love looking at them


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## krissovo (5 Nov 2008)

rmdt said:


> Krissovo,
> 
> Whats happened the blog updates?  I used love looking at them



The bank moved the goal posts on us with the current financial climate so the money ran out.  Its back on track again so will be getting updated soon.


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## johnnyg (5 Nov 2008)

Hi Krissovo,

I went for geothermal and UFH in my new build, house is 3200 sq foot..the net cost was 15K, payback within 7 years based on current oil usage. It will be up and running in the next month and i will get back to you if you are interested on the running costs


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## damienfitzp (5 Nov 2008)

i myself having similer problem trying to figure it all out for a new buid of 4000 sq ft ,if using heatpump can u still heat water from solid fuel stove or immersionand why use the 4 inch pipes


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## wexford dude (6 Nov 2008)

damienfitzp,

The 3/4 inch flow and return from your boiler are basically encassed in a 4 inch duct which is filled with insulation.It reduces heat loss as the heated water travels from your boiler to your house - nothing worse than heating the ground.


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## krissovo (6 Nov 2008)

johnnyg said:


> Hi Krissovo,
> 
> I went for geothermal and UFH in my new build, house is 3200 sq foot..the net cost was 15K, payback within 7 years based on current oil usage. It will be up and running in the next month and i will get back to you if you are interested on the running costs



That would be great if you could feedback.


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## damienfitzp (6 Nov 2008)

thanks wexford dude

im still thinking about heatpump and ufh at the min but by problem is do you have to use it to do all your water heating aswell , or can you use stove , solar etc. 

also can anyone recommend  a good company for heatpumps etc has anyone any experiences with energymaster

thanks
damien


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## krissovo (6 Nov 2008)

damienfitzp said:


> thanks wexford dude
> 
> im still thinking about heatpump and ufh at the min but by problem is do you have to use it to do all your water heating aswell , or can you use stove , solar etc.



From the companies that has quoted me there is separate system for hot water and a couple of them have offered to sell me another combined heat pump boiler system for 3 or 4 k.

Its mad I tell ye!


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## CharlieR (6 Nov 2008)

Krissovo

I am starting a new build and looking at ICF as an option, who did you use and is it as good as they make out and how up to date was your Architect with it.

With regards to the GSHP, we have friends that have installed it and also a wind turbine and they are impressed with its efficiency and running costs compared to what they had before. They had gas central heating in an old farmhouse and their bills are a 1/4 the gas ones.

I am looking to build 3500 to 4000 sqft in Glounthaune in Cork so any info greatly appreciated as all the fees for Architects etc seem to have doubled in the past 6 months since I first contacted them.

Cheers


Charlie


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## joejoe (7 Nov 2008)

Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones. 

When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.

My wife and I will be building a home in the next year and have two children (we may have one more). The biggest we will be going 2000 sq ft, cheaper to build, cheaper to heat.

Joejoe


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## krissovo (7 Nov 2008)

CharlieR said:


> Krissovo
> 
> I am starting a new build and looking at ICF as an option, who did you use and is it as good as they make out and how up to date was your Architect with it.



We are going to go with the Reward ICF system, mostly due to the builder we are using as that is the system that he likes to work with and the performance is good.  We visited a few home that he built with this system and they are stunning.

As for an architect, well to cut a long story short we sacked our architect very early on so now I am just using an engineer.   Anyway the engineer is happy to work with the ICF even though he does not have much experience with it.


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## krissovo (7 Nov 2008)

joejoe said:


> Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones.
> 
> When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.



My home is 2550 sqft, homes in Germany are generally much larger than Irish homes so 250m2 + is fairly common.  So I am comparing apples with apples.

As for building smaller I do not agree entirely, my build will be airtight and very well insulated.  The quotes are coming back with the primary heating device no bigger than if the home was 1100sqft.


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## Eve1 (7 Nov 2008)

We started our build a few years ago before there was as much info available about passive houses etc. We put in geothermal and are very happy so far. We have had three ESB bill so far varying from €140-€225. We also use the tumble dryer and washing machine nearly every day. The geo also heats the water, which is really great.

If I had the option again though I would have increased the insulation to passive standards given the changes that are coming over the next few years and made that a priority over a geo system.


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## joker538 (7 Nov 2008)

joejoe said:


> Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones.
> 
> When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.


 
Good post joejoe, thoroughly agree. 

Also, one of the reasons HRV/solar/heat pumps are so expensive is that the technology is relatively new to this country compared to its roll out in Europe. As fitters become more accustomed to the technology and economies of scale for suppliers prices will fall..


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## joejoe (7 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> My home is 2550 sqft, homes in Germany are generally much larger than Irish homes so 250m2 + is fairly common.  So I am comparing apples with apples.
> 
> As for building smaller I do not agree entirely, my build will be airtight and very well insulated.  The quotes are coming back with the primary heating device no bigger than if the home was 1100sqft.



We are talking about new buildings not old ones. In Germany currently the average sized new family house 125m2 or 1,345 sq ft. Building costs in Germany are on a par with Ireland.

Joejoe


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## ninsaga (7 Nov 2008)

If going with Reward - just have your engineer pay particular attention to the detail around the reveals. Unless they've changed it, they used to shutter the reveals with timber. It needs to be waterproofed effectively. Otherwise Reward is a good system. Also need to ensure the walls are dead straight otherwise the external rendering will look really bad. It is difficult to rectify/striaghten with the type of render that is applied to ICF.

One of the most 'reasonably' priced HRV systems I came across when researching was from RVR ..if I recall. I didn't put it in though in the end (budget went through the roof - so some items went out the window!).


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## krissovo (7 Nov 2008)

ninsaga said:


> If going with Reward - just have your engineer pay particular attention to the detail around the reveals. Unless they've changed it, they used to shutter the reveals with timber. It needs to be waterproofed effectively. Otherwise Reward is a good system. Also need to ensure the walls are dead straight otherwise the external rendering will look really bad. It is difficult to rectify/striaghten with the type of render that is applied to ICF.
> 
> One of the most 'reasonably' priced HRV systems I came across when researching was from RVR ..if I recall. I didn't put it in though in the end (budget went through the roof - so some items went out the window!).



Thanks for the tips, RVR looks a great site and the prices are even better!


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## krissovo (7 Nov 2008)

joejoe said:


> We are talking about new buildings not old ones. In Germany currently the average sized new family house 125m2 or 1,345 sq ft. Building costs in Germany are on a par with Ireland.
> 
> Joejoe



Now we are not comparing apple with apples as its probably the same size average size in Ireland.  What we are looking at is larger rural/suburbs housing.

My experience of German buildings costs is that it is much cheaper, my last house I built I basically imported it from Germany in lorries and a crew came over and built it.  They basically undercut every Irish timber frame supplier by over €40k.


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## bayjon (7 Nov 2008)

Geo thermals are great if used correctly and are prepeared to play by the rules as such.
Underfloor is a must downstairs at a minimum, and use large surface area low temp emitter rads, then it will work fine for you.
The new generation of air to water heat pumps are getting to COPS that are close to an ideal ground source collector.
If you like heat forget geo-thermal etc and get an oil or gas condensing boiler.
As stated if you running heating from outside spend the money on Calpex or similar insulated pipework.
Buy yourself a decent hot water tank, an akvatherm or similar hot water tank.
Solar is money well spent.
Dont get caught up in all the hype, and spend on your insulation.
Good luck.


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## glic83 (9 Nov 2008)

where bouts in cork ye building Krissovo?was reading through the blog there whats your view so far of building your own home?


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## krissovo (10 Nov 2008)

glic83 said:


> where bouts in cork ye building Krissovo?was reading through the blog there whats your view so far of building your own home?



Its in Rathcormac.

This is my 3rd build and so far the most stressful!

1st Build - Hannover Germany, this was an almost pleasant experience compared to Ireland.

2nd Build - Kerry, Got the lads over from Germany who built my 1st house.  

This build is a near disaster so far.  At the start I couldn't get hold of a builder or quotes as my previous builder only builds timber frame but as this will be home for life I wanted a concrete build.  Now I can get builders but the mortgage is held up and with the amount cowboy renewable energy consultants its hard to find a suitable solution.


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## sydthebeat (10 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> Its in Rathcormac.
> 
> This is my 3rd build and so far the most stressful!
> 
> ...


 

krissovo

have you any professional input in your build?


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## krissovo (10 Nov 2008)

sydthebeat said:


> krissovo
> 
> have you any professional input in your build?



In what way?

We had an architect initially at the start but he was no use at all.  He only wanted to offload a design he already had and would not use any of our input at all.  He was soon sacked!

We have a good engineer and I have a lot of faith in him.

We went to 2 energy consultants and both were cowboys hence this post.

The builder we are using has been using the ICF system for a while and we have seen two of his houses as references.


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## priscilla (10 Nov 2008)

Bayjon,
Not sure what you mean "if you like heat stay away from geo".
I looove heat and find the constant warm heat of the geo brilliant, we're delighted we put it in. The high level of insulation we put in I'm sure helps too.


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## galwaytt (11 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> ........ my previous builder only builds timber frame but as this will be home for life I wanted a concrete build..


 
I don't understand that point - are you saying TF is not a 'home for life' ?  If so, that's nonsense - if you have experience of building in Germany you will know that using timber is entirely suitable for your, and your children's - and beyond  - life.


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## krissovo (11 Nov 2008)

galwaytt said:


> I don't understand that point - are you saying TF is not a 'home for life' ?  If so, that's nonsense - if you have experience of building in Germany you will know that using timber is entirely suitable for your, and your children's - and beyond  - life.



Having lived (& built) in timber frame homes and concrete homes my _*personal*_ preference is concrete.  My main reasons are stop the creaking, fire safety, air tightness, hanging things on the wall etc etc.  Now I know full well that you can counter the argument for all of those reasons and list negatives but there really is nothing better than the feeling of a solid home.  

I am not saying that timber frame is not a home for life but what I am saying is that I want the home I am going to spend the rest of life in to be built to way that I would be most happy with.


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## Didi 66 (11 Nov 2008)

Krissovo,

We installed an air to water heat pump in Aug (€13000 minus €2000 from SEI). We are very happy with it and i estimate that our heating costs for the year could be less than €500. The house is 2500 sq ft, timber framed with lots of insulation.


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## krissovo (12 Nov 2008)

Didi 66 said:


> Krissovo,
> 
> We installed an air to water heat pump in Aug (€13000 minus €2000 from SEI). We are very happy with it and i estimate that our heating costs for the year could be less than €500. The house is 2500 sq ft, timber framed with lots of insulation.



Now that looks more like it, how did it perform during the recent cold spells?

Would you mind PM'ing the company?


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> my build will be airtight and .


 
Is it wise to have a house airtight?


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## sydthebeat (12 Nov 2008)

sfag said:


> Is it wise to have a house airtight?


 
Its extremely important to have a house airtight.... actually vital, from an energy efficiency point o fview.

theres loads of threads already on this issue so theres no point going into it here.
and note that under the building regs 2007 all new builds wil lrequire an air tightness test done, with a minimum air change value to be met.


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

OK. Was just wondering. 
I had thought air tightness leads to black walls, sickness and asthma. Isnt air tightness one of those curses of modern living. 
I deliberately put vents in all my rooms to let air in. 
Looks like I'll have to block them if I ever go to sell.


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> Having lived (& built) in timber frame homes and concrete homes my _*personal*_ preference is concrete. My main reasons are stop the creaking, fire safety, air tightness, hanging things on the wall etc etc. Now I know full well that you can counter the argument for all of those reasons and list negatives but there really is nothing better than the feeling of a solid home.


 
I agree with that quote. I lived in one of those housing estate mass production houses before that was timber framed and by Christ it was noisey.  From friends that self built timber frame houses they say that there is no money saving & no time saving due to delivery allways being late and plenty of mistakes. If you remove those two arguements  for going timber framed there is not much incentive left.


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

I have to say I've yet to get an accurate estimate of the costs of the geo thermal running costs from anywhere. I know some people with it and they say it costs little to run but when you visit their houses they have the heating off all day long despite having uf heating which is supposed to be on call 24/7. I'd love to have an accurate report from someone who doesent scrimp.


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## sydthebeat (12 Nov 2008)

sfag said:


> OK. Was just wondering.
> I had thought air tightness leads to black walls, sickness and asthma. Isnt air tightness one of those curses of modern living.
> I deliberately put vents in all my rooms to let air in.
> Looks like I'll have to block them if I ever go to sell.


 
No you wont, you need ventilation.

Theres a HUGE difference between ventilation and air tightness (or lack of).

The requirement for ventilation is covered in the building regulations and deals with 'controlled' ventilation by means of passive vents and mechanical fans.

Bad air tightness (air permeability) is the process where air leaks out of your building fabric.... at points such as wall-floor junctions, opes, eaves etc. This leakage is not controlled and not what should happen. 

sick building syndrome is a result of inadequate ventilation and/or bad construction... it has nothing to do with constructing an air tight house.

If anything good airtightness aids in a healthier internal climate because the controlled ventilation then does exactly what its designed to do....


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## wexford dude (12 Nov 2008)

Sfag,

The point of air-tightness is to loose as little energy from your house.If you also include a MHRV in your air-tight house then you will get the ventilation you require but you will minimise your losses but get the desired ventilation that is required for healthy living.

With any build if you are hiring someone - timber frame erector, plumber, blocklayer you cannot just assume that they are competent just because the name on the side of the van says so - their work has to be checked prior to payment.


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## sydthebeat (12 Nov 2008)

sfag said:


> *I have to say I've yet to get an accurate estimate of the costs of the geo thermal running costs from anywhere*. I know some people with it and they say it costs little to run but when you visit their houses they have the heating off all day long despite having uf heating which is supposed to be on call 24/7. I'd love to have an accurate report from someone who doesent scrimp.


 
the running costs of geothermal are directly linked to the type of construction they are used in.

if you have 310 cavity wall with passive vents, minimum building reg insulation and bad thermal bridging then expect to pay at the top of the scale...
however if you build a well insulated (A rated), airtight construction your heating demands drop significantly and you pay at the lower end.....

comparing running costs without comparing build spec is comparing apples and oranges....


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

Yeah I know all that. 
But the basics are house size, room tempature and maybe year built as these will confirm to regulation insualtion standards (60 mil hd 3 years ago). 
Thats a good enought yardstick to start comparing against.


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## sfag (12 Nov 2008)

wexford dude said:


> Sfag,
> 
> The point of air-tightness is to loose as little energy from your house.If you also include a MHRV in your air-tight house then you will get the ventilation you require but you will minimise your losses but get the desired ventilation that is required for healthy living.


 
If MHRV is that mechanical heat retrieval something or other then surely thats an expensive solution to opening a window. Surely a high tech answer to a low tech problem.


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## sydthebeat (12 Nov 2008)

sfag said:


> Yeah I know all that.
> But the basics are house size, room tempature and maybe year built as these will confirm to regulation insualtion standards (60 mil hd 3 years ago).
> Thats a good enought yardstick to start comparing against.


 
no... id never suggest installing a geothermal heatpumped UFH system in a build that built at minimum building regs standards....

unfortunately both salespersons and plumbers out there really push this.... and many many people get caught...


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## sydthebeat (12 Nov 2008)

sfag said:


> If MHRV is that mechanical heat retrieval something or other then surely thats an expensive solution to opening a window. Surely a high tech answer to a low tech problem.


 

no its not...

firstly MHRS is not a substitute to opening a window.... its a substitute to your hole in the wall vents.. these vents do not recover any heat they loose...

when do you need to open windows... when its too hot!!


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## wexford dude (12 Nov 2008)

sfag,

It is mechanical heat recovery ventilation.It is an electrical fan based system that changes the air in your rooms thru a ducting system with reduced energy loss than opening your windows.

Personally I dont have it.Like yourself we have wall vents.We open the windows when required but not when the heating is on.The new ''green technologies'' like MHRV I agree with in principal but their costs are yet yo be justified.


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## showandgo (13 Nov 2008)

sydthebeat said:


> the running costs of geothermal are directly linked to the type of construction they are used in.
> 
> if you have 310 cavity wall with passive vents, minimum building reg insulation and bad thermal bridging then expect to pay at the top of the scale...
> however if you build a well insulated (A rated), airtight construction your heating demands drop significantly and you pay at the lower end.....
> ...



  Finally, after reading this I feel that I am beginning to understand more about central heating systems.  Although this comment looks like common sense, I would imagine that this is exactly what people don’t realize when they sign up for a GeoThermal system.


  It seems that central heating systems and house construction/insulation go hand in hand and it is pointless talking about one without talking about the other, and that some heating systems work better than others depending on the construction of your house.  So when a salesman is telling you that the payback for your system is going to be around X yrs, is he talking rubbish unless he has taken into account the construction of your house???


  What do you think are the minimum recommended building standards if you want to use GeoThermal?


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## krissovo (13 Nov 2008)

showandgo said:


> Finally, after reading this I feel that I am beginning to understand more about central heating systems.  Although this comment looks like common sense, I would imagine that this is exactly what people don’t realize when they sign up for a GeoThermal system.



I am with you on that statement that I am beginning to have a better grasp.

I do now have another dilemma if you insulate your home and build to a A standard home then Geo will be in line with the salesmen estimates on running costs.  So then surely if you had a cheap oil solution in place that would be much lower than average usage for oil or gas?

I would be interested in seeing a comparison or report  between identical built homes  running on various heat sources e.g Geo, oil, gas air to water etc.  I would be interesting to have a grasp on real running costs and payback time for installation.

I am still leaning towards oil at the moment and to run that for 10 years or so.  By then all this renewable heating will be norm and prices should reflect that.  I will invest in solar and have priced up a nice system with 10.2 m2 panels 500l tank that should reduce my oil consumption.  I will also invest in a stove with a HRV vent above it  so that should circulate some warm air around the home.


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## tick tock (13 Nov 2008)

i think people should forget about PAY BACK TIME if you want what ever kind of system you want just buy it but if you cant afford it...forget about it


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## krissovo (13 Nov 2008)

tick tock said:


> i think people should forget about PAY BACK TIME if you want what ever kind of system you want just buy it but if you cant afford it...forget about it



Pay back time and being able to afford it is not my main issue.  Over inflated prices and actual performance of the system is my concern.


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## sydthebeat (13 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> I am with you on that statement that I am beginning to have a better grasp.
> 
> *I do now have another dilemma if you insulate your home and build to a A standard home then Geo will be in line with the salesmen estimates on running costs. So then surely if you had a cheap oil solution in place that would be much lower than average usage for oil or gas?*
> 
> ...


 
krissovo and showandgo.....

The heating system you put into your house should match the heating energy demand you will have...
Ill give you two examples...

Say a house rated C2 in a BER assessment (this would be typical minimum standards)..... The energy demand would be in the region of 175kWh/m2/yr

A certified passive house has an energy demand of less than 15kWh/m2/yr

Therefore the C2 house would need a boiler that produces in the region of 30kW (typically)... be it oil gas woood etc....

The passive house however, in reality needs a tiny boiler in comparions for backup use on very cold days.. these can be heat pumps or electrical elements as low as 1.5 - 1.8 kW..... see the difference!!!!

The more you reduce your energy demand, the less of output of a heating system you need..... 

As you can see, the lowest 'energy demand' houses can be heated by electricity... this would be unthinkable in a 'minimum standard' house....

so my advise is always to: 
1. design the dwelling to get maximum gains from solar energy 
2. design the construction to minimise thermal 'cold' bridges
3. insulate the hell out if it
4. ensure maximum airtightness
5. ensure maximum control over the heating system..


once this is done the output capacity of your heating system is greatly reduced....
definitely negating the need for large expensive systems...


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## magtape (14 Nov 2008)

Hi Damienfitzp

There are a few types of heatpump some will only heat your ufh and bring your domestic water to a low temp which then has to be heated to a useable temp with an immersion.
Other heatpumps have built in cylinders and can heat your house and all you domestic hot water needs no problem.
You can also heat a buffer tank which is a store of water which is used to go to your ufh.  You can also attach solar and a stove to this tank. The stove would want to be able to be operated   on a sealed heating system. This tank also provides your domestic hot water.

There is a company es therm that can offer some soloutions


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## Didi 66 (23 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> Now that looks more like it, how did it perform during the recent cold spells?
> 
> Would you mind PM'ing the company?


 
It performed very well during the cold snap. The company is Nutherm and they installed an AERMAC 10.3 kw heat pump. We have put in lots of insulation into the house and only have one north facing window. It really makes a difference on sunny days when the heat pump only comes on for the hot water.


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## galwaytt (28 Nov 2008)

krissovo said:


> Having lived (& built) in timber frame homes and concrete homes my _*personal*_ preference is concrete. My main reasons are stop the creaking, fire safety, air tightness, hanging things on the wall etc etc. Now I know full well that you can counter the argument for all of those reasons and list negatives but there really is nothing better than the feeling of a solid home.
> 
> I am not saying that timber frame is not a home for life but what I am saying is that I want the home I am going to spend the rest of life in to be built to way that I would be most happy with.


 
Preference, I understand, fair enough.

The reasons for creaking are poor installation, usually, not the fact that it's timber.  Or poor quality timber, possibly.

I know our airtightness in our houses is better than concrete as standard, as conc houses have a very poor roof/wall junction to deal with.   Fire ?  All houses, irrespective of material, must meet the same standards.  Our timber based party wall has been tested to 94 minutes.......which is 50% in excess of Building Regulations.......and it's quieter than a concrete house, too.    Solidity comes as standard.

The point I'm making is that the issues are down to quality of design and installation, rather than 'it's timber/concrete/whatever'.    There is no shortage of poorly built concrete houses either, as we know.

Done well, any system can meet and exceed your expectations.


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## flatwallet (28 Nov 2008)

try that!
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=98024


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## krissovo (28 Nov 2008)

flatwallet said:


> try that!
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=98024



That could be the answer to my prayers!  Thanks for the heads up


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