# Au pair Pay



## mrsg09 (9 Mar 2016)

In light of recent case in the papers I am concerned about our arrangement with our current au pair.

We pay her minimum wage for the hours she works. However she has a floor of our house to herself, very large double bedroom with seperate private bathroom we live in Dublin 18. At the time we talked about pay we agreed with the au pair (in writing) that 150 euro would be deduced per week for rent, utilities, food etc.

We are both happy with the arrangement but I am now worried having seen the coverage in papers saying 57euro a week is recommended deduction for room and board.

My question is does our agreement hold up or is the above figure a maximum allowed or merely a guidance?

Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you


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## Babby (9 Mar 2016)

I believe it is the maximum.


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## Leper (10 Mar 2016)

The recent Test Case ended in a Recommendation only.  An Au-Pair who spent a few months with a family is better off by ten grand as a result of the recommendation. The monetary award for au-pairs could never remain as it did.

Whether the Au-Pair has a floor, a room, a shared room, a shower, access to the fridge, use of the car, to herself is incidental.

I reckon Mrsg09 is walking barefoot on glass while holding a concrete block.


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## emeralds (10 Mar 2016)

How many hours does she work?? If she is working 30 hours per week at 9.15 per hour that works out at €274. So you take away €150. She is left with €124.


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## Gordon Gekko (10 Mar 2016)

What about holiday pay / bank holidays etc?


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## moneybox (10 Mar 2016)

It was always my impression (maybe I am wrong) that au-pairs come to Ireland primarily to improve theiir english, and they financed the cost of this by living with a family amd give time looking after kids and carry out some light housework in exchange for bed, board and light renumeration. Obviously things have chamged.  The changes are going to come as a big fimancial blow for many all ready struggling families.


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## mathepac (10 Mar 2016)

On the one hand :- http://www.thejournal.ie/au-pair-employment-law-2648083-Mar2016/

and on the other :- http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ld-destroy-industry-says-agency-34527421.html

It's gone time that some employers ceased treating au pairs like indentured slaves and paid them properly for their work. To me the bed & board charge is akin to my employer deducting fuel, tax and insurance from my wages because I drive his truck or charging me for my desk and the space it occupies as well as the light, heat and cleaning my office needs if I'm a desk-jockey.


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## Nutso (10 Mar 2016)

I don't personally use au pairs but I know families who do.  There will always be cases of au pairs that are over worked but I believe that it's a good arrangement for both au pair and the family when certain guidelines are adhered to.  I don't believe it's fair to use an au pair as a full time childminder for children who are not in school, but for families with kids who are in school, it can be a lifesaver having someone to collect the kids, take them home and make sure homework etc is done.  While the pay might not seem like much, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have less than 100-150 per week left after all bills / food / accommodation are paid for.

It's a big adjustment for families to have someone living in their home and integrating them into the family.  Personally I wouldn't think it was worth it if you were required to pay minimum wages, you would be better to have someone live out.

An au pair I know does the following hours: 8am - 10am school run / laundry; 2pm - 6pm school run, homework, afterschool activities etc.  So 30hrs per week.  She has the use of the car for local travel, she gets phone credit, language classes paid for, flights home paid for.  She gets paid extra for any additional babysitting, a laptop, room and full board.  If she was paid minimum wage and had to live out she would be much worse off. You can't get a double room in Dublin city for less than 600 per month from what I can see!  An au pair is a cultural exchange to allow a young person to improve their English and also impart some of their culture to the home.  It shouldn't be treated as an employee / employer relationship and the hours, requirements should be laid out in advance from both sides so that everyone understands what they are getting into.


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## Delboy (10 Mar 2016)

According to links I've seen on other sites, Citizens Information say the max you can deduct from a live in Au Pair for accomm/food/bills is €54 per week!!!
So 30 hour week at €9.15 per hour less €54 = €220 per week to the Au Pair. And thats not including registering as an Employer, PRSI etc etc.

Something is going to give on this


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## Canysant1 (10 Mar 2016)

I do personally use an au pair. I pay her €120/week for 30 hours work spread over 4 days. I have 3 kids, she brings 2 of them to school in the morning along with the baby, she returns home, looks after the baby who then goes down for a nap for 2 hours and my au pair then does whatever she likes. She picks the 2 older ones up at 1.30, and looks after them for 3 hours as well as the baby. The only housework I ask her to do is make sure the dishwasher isn't completely full when I get home and that it's not a complete mess but if she's out and about and it doesn't get done, that's ok too. I pay for her language classes, would pay for exercise classes or whatever for her if she'd take them but she has no interest. She has her own area of the house with bathroom and shower and own entrance, has friends over all the time and generally seems to be having a whale of a time. She gets all her food paid for and is very fond of the kids and they her. In fact she's so happy, she's going to stay another year.
I pay her extra for any babysitting, €8 an hour, which usually just involves sitting watching tv as the kids would be asleep. Even an hour where I've to run to the shops or am delayed coming home, she gets extra, we never take advantage.
To rent a room in my area of Dublin would be an absolute minimum €600 for her set-up and she'd have to cover all the bills too on top of that, probably another 100 a month.
I pay her for her holidays and sick leave and also for our holidays if she's supposed to be working. And I don't expect her to mind 3 kids all by herself fulltime during holidays, my husband and I will try and cover that with a few camps and grandparents thrown in for good measure.
Her English has improved vastly since she came here and she really loves our country.
Sorry for the detail but I'm trying to give you a feeling of exactly what the situation is like. There's nothing cruel or unusual about it.
If I were to pay for a live-out child-minder, to do what she does, it would cost me probably 1200 a month and I'd have to rent out the room to someone else. Plus, I'd probably get a lot more housework done as I'd make use of every ounce of downtime. So financially, I wouldn't be much better or worse off. But I like having my au-pair around, it's good to have an extra pair of hands if needs be and I like to see her enjoying herself and improving herself and she's a lovely girl having the time of her life...albeit with a bit of the hard work that is child-minding thrown in. And I don't underestimate it, child-minding is VERY HARD.
There are lots of like minded people like my husband and I out there, just trying to manage.
What I'm wondering is how exactly does this ruling affect me if I do nothing and she does nothing?


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## Canysant1 (10 Mar 2016)

Delboy said:


> According to links I've seen on other sites, Citizens Information say the max you can deduct from a live in Au Pair for accomm/food/bills is €54 per week!!!
> So 30 hour week at €9.15 per hour less €54 = €220 per week to the Au Pair. And thats not including registering as an Employer, PRSI etc etc.
> 
> Something is going to give on this



You're right! What's to stop me hiring my au pair legitimately as a child minder, paying her 9.15 and hour and then separetely signing an agreement with her where I charge her €600/month rent plus €50 for her share of the bills? And then if I've to register as an employer, are there not all sorts of implications on expenses I can claim back, etc. (sorry never been self-employed but know there are some perks involved in paying the super high PRSI they have to pay)?


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## huskerdu (10 Mar 2016)

mathepac said:


> On the one hand :- http://www.thejournal.ie/au-pair-employment-law-2648083-Mar2016/
> 
> and on the other :- http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ld-destroy-industry-says-agency-34527421.html
> 
> It's gone time that some employers apparently treated au pairs like indentured slaves and paid them properly for their work. To me the bed & board charge is akin to my employer deducting fuel, tax and insurance from my wages because I drive his truck or charging me for my desk and the space it occupies as well as the list, heat and cleaning my office needs if I'm a desk-jockey.



I agree that many au-pairs are paied very badly and treated appallingly and that is unacceptable.

However, I disagree with your second statement. Lodging and food is part of the overall package. you can't equate it with tools of the trade that you cant do the job  without.

My au-pair, once her work  hours are over, ( 18 hours a week) is free to come and go as she pleases, and treat our home as her home. In what way is that an endentured slave ?  She has no obligation to be in the house, its just easier for both of us.


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## moneybox (10 Mar 2016)

mrsg09 said:


> Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you



Send the au pair home and let out the spare floor of your home under the rent a room scheme, depending on where you are living, it may well cover the necessary childminding cost for you.


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## Babby (10 Mar 2016)

Canysant1

If you employ someone in your home to mind you children for a fixed rate an hour

You pay a fixed rate per hour
Plus 4 weeks paid holiday off per year
Plus pay all bank holidays
You need a contract
Do their tax returns
And yes pay the employers PRSI too
And no - there are no expenses you can claim off In tax


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## Canysant1 (10 Mar 2016)

Babby said:


> Canysant1
> 
> If you employ someone in your home to mind you children for a fixed rate an hour
> 
> ...



Thank you Babby, good to know. I do pay 4 weeks holidays a year plus bank holidays. So that would mean that it would cost me more to pay the au pair the same amount as the government would take a further cut of money I've already paid full PRSI on. And tax returns, dear God!
I really think they should leave the system the way it is but they do need to provide some recourse for au pairs who are mistreated...and in fairness, there's definitely a fairly substantial portion who are. It's terrible to think of someone treating somebody else's child so badly - can they not put themselves in their shoes?


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## mrsg09 (10 Mar 2016)

hi all, sorry I am only back online now. to answer a few questions, our lady gets 4 week paid holiday per year.


We pay between 150 – 200 cash per week depending on the hours worked, usually she does approx. 30-32 hours a week. We both work office type jobs so she has every weekend, every bank holiday off. We pay for 4 weeks holidays per year and regularly pay for small items such as phone credit, buy toiletries (toothpaste etc) for her. We include her in our cooking during the week but she also has a list she puts together of things I don’t buy for the family which I pick up for her.


This arrangements works for the 2 of us and im sure if it didn’t she is well able to leave she is a fully grown adult.


I am just concerned that I am now leaving our family wide-open to future litigation should we have some falling out or should she decide in 6 months time – I could be in for a windfall here.  I know there are thousands of other families in this predicament but I am finding this situation very stressful.


I think its ridiculous to compare living in our house with us to having tools for your job. A live out childminder would arrive to our house in the morning and leave when finished and doesn’t require food / light / gas / heat / accommodation to do her job.

When I come in the door from work our au pair is off the clock.

I am very worried.


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## Bronte (10 Mar 2016)

Canysant1 said:


> I do personally use an au pair. I pay her €120/week for 30 hours work spread over 4 days. I have 3 kids, she brings 2 of them to school in the morning along with the baby, she returns home, looks after the baby who then goes down for a nap for 2 hours and my au pair then does whatever she likes. She picks the 2 older ones up at 1.30, and looks after them for 3 hours as well as the baby. The only housework I ask her to do is make sure the dishwasher isn't completely full when I get home and that it's not a complete mess but if she's out and about and it doesn't get done, that's ok too. I pay for her language classes, would pay for exercise classes or whatever for her if she'd take them but she has no interest. She has her own area of the house with bathroom and shower and own entrance, has friends over all the time and generally seems to be having a whale of a time. She gets all her food paid for and is very fond of the kids and they her. In fact she's so happy, she's going to stay another year.
> I pay her extra for any babysitting, €8 an hour, which usually just involves sitting watching tv as the kids would be asleep. Even an hour where I've to run to the shops or am delayed coming home, she gets extra, we never take advantage.
> To rent a room in my area of Dublin would be an absolute minimum €600 for her set-up and she'd have to cover all the bills too on top of that, probably another 100 a month.
> I pay her for her holidays and sick leave and also for our holidays if she's supposed to be working. And I don't expect her to mind 3 kids all by herself fulltime during holidays, my husband and I will try and cover that with a few camps and grandparents thrown in for good measure.
> ...



When does she go to language classes?


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## Canysant1 (10 Mar 2016)

Bronte said:


> When does she go to language classes?



Up the road from us, it's around 100 a month. We're in Dublin so there's lots around.

@mrsg09 I think you have to trust that if you think she's a nice lady, she probably won't do that to you down the line. I don't think we have a choice. I know that's not great financial "Askaboutmoney" advice but that's how I feel. Everything is a risk when we've kids so I'm going to gamble that if my au pair seems happy, she'll treat this as a lovely experience. My girl comes from a lovely family, I've met her parents and her sister who works here also, they care about her and wanted to meet us as well which tells me a lot. Do your due diligence and go with your gut then


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## Babby (10 Mar 2016)

Canysant1

If you employ someone in your home to mind you children for a fixed rate an hour

You pay a fixed rate per hour
Plus 4 weeks paid holiday off per year
Plus pay all bank holidays
You need a contract
Do their tax returns
And yes pay the employers PRSI too
And no - there are no expenses you can claim off In tax


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## mrsg09 (10 Mar 2016)

Ok I have a very quick question. Does the room and board limit of 54 euro only apply to staff on the minimum wAge? So if the au pair/ nanny lives in your home and earns say 15 euro an hour does the 54 euro limit apply?


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## Cervelo (10 Mar 2016)

just to throw another spanner in the works, are you declaring the rent you are charging your au-pair


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## Delboy (10 Mar 2016)

mrsg09 said:


> Ok I have a very quick question. Does the room and board limit of 54 euro only apply to staff on the minimum wAge? So if the au pair/ nanny lives in your home and earns say 15 euro an hour does the 54 euro limit apply?


My understanding, from reading about this on other websites, is that the €54 max deduction applies to Au-Pairs only and not 'staff'


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## Jon Snow (10 Mar 2016)

Cervelo said:


> just to throw another spanner in the works, are you declaring the rent you are charging your au-pair



Rent a room


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## Delboy (10 Mar 2016)

Cervelo said:


> just to throw another spanner in the works, are you declaring the rent you are charging your au-pair


There's a 12k ceiling so no tax liability most likely. But would still have to be declared


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## Cervelo (10 Mar 2016)

Something else just occurred to me in this new minefield, would you need employers insurance or would your house insurance cover any event


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## Delboy (10 Mar 2016)

Cervelo said:


> Something else just occurred to me in this new minefield, would you need employers insurance or would your house insurance cover any event


House insurance covers domestic workers up to 1m or so if I recall correctly a conversation I had with my insurer a few months ago


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## mrsg09 (10 Mar 2016)

Delboy the ruling said that there are no 'au pairs' in Irish law. The 54euro a week is contained in the minimum wage act.
No tax due as it would be covered under the rent a room scheme.
So if earns more than minimum wage, I could set up s rent a room scheme as a separate contract?


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## moneybox (10 Mar 2016)

Food for thought

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/equating-au-pairs-with-employees-is-ludicrous-1.2564965


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## Waver (10 Mar 2016)

If you read the actual ruling rather that what Migrant Rights are saying about the ruling it doesn't say au pairs are employees. It says where a domestic worker is an employee then employment law applies.

This is what the Dept  of Justice say

[broken link removed]


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## mrsg09 (10 Mar 2016)

Anyone know is the 54 euro a week contained in any other legislation? Does it only apply to those on minimum wage?


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## mathepac (11 Mar 2016)

The issue of "tools of the trade" doesn't arise as the difference between an au pair and a drop-off or call-in child-minder is that an au pair must live in, apparently at the au pair's expense. To work as a truck-driver I  drive my boss's truck but not at my expense.

There's a beautiful irony in paying an au pair €6.15 / hour (as per @mrs09 above at €200 for 30 hour week) to take charge of your most precious asset, in comparison to what auto technicians or plumbers charge.


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## mrsg09 (11 Mar 2016)

Mathapec we do pay 200 euros a week, she has her own rooms in our house, all utility bills included. All the food she would like to have. 

She is very happy with the arrangement so are the kids and so are we.

We now will probably do as another poster suggested which is ask her to move out, get her own place and be our childminder and rent the room out.

i have already suggested this to her and she is very upset about it.

Not really sure where the irony you are referring to is. Last time I hired a plumber I didn't give him a bed for the night and dinner when he finished


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## Easeler (11 Mar 2016)

Comparing an aupair with a plumber is a bit mad , I thought an aupair was some young person looking to do a bit of traveling and learning the native language and doing some childminding in return.  But of course it was abused by a small minority that treated it as slave labour. mrsg90 you seem to be one of the good ones and threats your aupair very fairly, and who would want an unhappy aupair around the house.


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## mrsg09 (11 Mar 2016)

We have been talking about it again here this morning. 
We are thinking of drawing up a contract as a 'childminder' she wants to stay here for at least 1 more year. 
We are thinking of doing up a contract of employment in which we pay her 10 euros per hour. Then into a seperate contract in which we agree to less than the market rent for the rooms she has.
What do ye think?
I am awake all night trying to figure this out


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## mrsg09 (11 Mar 2016)

Galway pat
I have no idea. If you au pair or childminder isn't happy how can she make your kids happy?


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## Delboy (11 Mar 2016)

mathepac said:


> There's a beautiful irony in paying an au pair €6.15 / hour (as per @mrs09 above at €200 for 30 hour week) to take charge of your most precious asset, in comparison to what auto technicians or plumbers charge.


Does the Mechanic or Plumber live in your gaff and eat from your fridge?


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## Cervelo (11 Mar 2016)

mrsg09 said:


> Galway pat
> I have no idea. If you au pair or childminder isn't happy how can she make your kids happy?



Personally speaking you seem to have a good relationship with the au-pair and she with your family, I would not go rocking the boat just yet by asking her to move out as it would change the whole dynamic of the situation.
Give citizens information a call and ask their view maybe talk to an au-pair agency or a solicitor


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## Jon Snow (11 Mar 2016)

mrsg09 said:


> We have been talking about it again here this morning.
> We are thinking of drawing up a contract as a 'childminder' she wants to stay here for at least 1 more year.
> We are thinking of doing up a contract of employment in which we pay her 10 euros per hour. Then into a seperate contract in which we agree to less than the market rent for the rooms she has.
> What do ye think?
> I am awake all night trying to figure this out



I think you're overreacting massively to the whole situation. The facts and circumstances in the case that has ruffled your feathers don't exist in your case. Unless you have a major falling out with the girl, which is very unlikely IF YOU LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE...!


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## mrsg09 (11 Mar 2016)

jon thanks for your input but to be honest I don't think I am overreacting. while we have a great relationship, I am anxious to protect our family from any chance of litigation down the road. say if she stays with us another year, gets pregnant / wants to buy a house or apartnment and is stuck for money for sick relatives at home etc etc etc

all I am trying to do is keep our happy situation in the home and protect our family from any possibility of future litigation which we really really cant afford. we bought during the boom and have a huge mortgage


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## gianni (11 Mar 2016)

OP, I wouldn't make any drastic moves if I were you. 

The child care situation in this country is very murky. There are thousands of unregulated/untaxed childminders who provide care, usually in their own homes, for monetary gain. (In most cases, superb care). There is no real appetite to tackle this - although it is debatable as to how many of these individuals would actually be liable for income tax - so, like many issues in Ireland, there is a blind eye turned to it. 

The au pair situation, despite this ruling, seems to be a similar grey area...


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## MarryM (11 Mar 2016)

I consider the proposed payment to be really quite enough, I also want to invite an au pair student. By the way, is it worth doing? how do you think can a student take a good care of your children?


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## Leper (12 Mar 2016)

I made a few local enquiries during the week regarding au-pairs and their work.  There seems to be a pretty wide gap between those who treat their au-pairs well and those who just want childcare that costs as little as possible.  The use of au-pairs is much greater than I thought.  Nearly every road on Mortgage Mountain has an au-pair or two.  Husband/Wife/Partner are all working fulltime in jobs outside of the home in each of the houses I am talking about.  The au-pair gets €100.00 per week "spending money" + accommodation for their efforts. In several of the houses the au-pair lasts about two weeks (sometimes less) before terminating her arrangement. With the unemployment situation is some countries the foreign au-pair has little or no choice. I've heard one parent say "I don't have €100 spending money for myself." Also, the amount of hours worked and job-description might not be what I was informed. I wonder does the au-pair who looks after five children get paid the same as those who look after one child.  

Like somebody said earlier, we're paying our plumber more for a looking after a washing-machine than we are with somebody looking after our children.  The abuse of the au-pair is much greater than most of us realise. Some treat the au-pair well, but unfortunately there are the usual freeloading parents. The current situation could not continue. A test case informs us that one former au-pair must be compensated by ten grand for just a few months work.  The newspapers informed us last Thursday that there were forty more cases from au-pairs pending.  I bet the figure next Thursday will be much larger. If I were employing an au-pair, I would be very worried if I were blatently underpaying her.  The au-pair now has avenues that can hurt her employer.  Rightly so!

One of the parents informed me that the current situation will drive the hiring of au-pairs under the radar i.e. employing au-pairs from outside of the EU.  This begs the question will they have the same rights as those hired from within the EU. 

Let's turn the table now.  Maria-José arrives from Spain, acquires employment as an au-pair, looks after children and takes notes of the hours she is working and the duties required of her etc.  She is being paid €100 per week + accommodation. A year down the road she approaches a solicitor (no doubt the legal profession are in for a killing here) and suddenly Maria-José is in line for quite some back-money. She's back in Spain and a solicitor is now dealing for her.  There are two winners here, (i) the legal profession and (ii) Maria-José.


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## Jon Snow (12 Mar 2016)

Leper said:


> I made a few local enquiries during the week regarding au-pairs and their work.  There seems to be a pretty wide gap between those who treat their au-pairs well and those who just want childcare that costs as little as possible.  The use of au-pairs is much greater than I thought.  Nearly every road on Mortgage Mountain has an au-pair or two.  Husband/Wife/Partner are all working fulltime in jobs outside of the home in each of the houses I am talking about.  The au-pair gets €100.00 per week "spending money" + accommodation for their efforts. In several of the houses the au-pair lasts about two weeks (sometimes less) before terminating her arrangement. With the unemployment situation is some countries the foreign au-pair has little or no choice. I've heard one parent say "I don't have €100 spending money for myself." Also, the amount of hours worked and job-description might not be what I was informed. I wonder does the au-pair who looks after five children get paid the same as those who look after one child.
> 
> Like somebody said earlier, we're paying our plumber more for a looking after a washing-machine than we are with somebody looking after our children.  The abuse of the au-pair is much greater than most of us realise. Some treat the au-pair well, but unfortunately there are the usual freeloading parents. The current situation could not continue. A test case informs us that one former au-pair must be compensated by ten grand for just a few months work.  The newspapers informed us last Thursday that there were forty more cases from au-pairs pending.  I bet the figure next Thursday will be much larger. If I were employing an au-pair, I would be very worried if I were blatently underpaying her.  The au-pair now has avenues that can hurt her employer.  Rightly so!
> 
> ...



The fundamental error in your logic there is that you are assuming that an au pair "acquires an employment". Let's be very clear; the WRC isn't the courts and one WRC decision does not mean every au pair in the country is suddenly an employee.

Whether or not there is an employment will be a question of the facts in an individual case, but I believe that if/when this goes before a court, domestic or EU, the decision will not be one that renders all au pairs considered workers who are in employment.

At risk of starting to sound like a broken record, this is not just an Irish issue, au pairs operate all across the world and as far as I know they aren't considered employees in other countries either.

I believe that if the facts demonstrate that:
the primary purpose of the au pair being there is to learn the language and culture, that they are treated as one of the family, and that the work they do is consistent with that status rather than some kind of indentured labourer, there won't be an issue.

Certainly, some au pairs are being exploited for cheap labour, and there should and will be consequences for the exploiters in those cases, but thankfully the world is not black and white (well, not speaking for you Leper, as it appears gloriously monochromatic where you are at times). There is a spectrum / continuum available for one to consider, and I'll have a decent wager a bona fide non-exploitative au pair arrangement will safely fall into the non-employment end of that spectrum.


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## mrsg09 (12 Mar 2016)

We have made the decision here to draft formal contracts. One a contract of employment for min wage and another rent a room contract charging less than the narket rate for the rooms.
Our lady is finished her English classes and wants to stay on with our family so technically not an au pair anymore anyway. In the contract we are going to give her the title of nanny


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## Jon Snow (12 Mar 2016)

mrsg09 said:


> We have made the decision here to draft formal contracts. One a contract of employment for min wage and another rent a room contract charging less than the narket rate for the rooms.
> Our lady is finished her English classes and wants to stay on with our family so technically not an au pair anymore anyway. In the contract we are going to give her the title of nanny



That's probably wise if she doesn't really fit the definition of an au pair any longer. You'll need to register as an employer for operation of PAYE on her pay, and you'd better check out other obligations that will go with the change in status - insurance, health & safety etc...


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## Leper (12 Mar 2016)

Jon Snow said:


> The fundamental error in your logic there is that you are assuming that an au pair "acquires an employment". Let's be very clear; the WRC isn't the courts and one WRC decision does not mean every au pair in the country is suddenly an employee.
> 
> Whether or not there is an employment will be a question of the facts in an individual case, but I believe that if/when this goes before a court, domestic or EU, the decision will not be one that renders all au pairs considered workers who are in employment.
> 
> ...



I hope you are right Jon, because if you are not right many families will be "claimed" out of existence.


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## Cervelo (12 Mar 2016)

Leper said:


> I hope you are right Jon, because if you are not right many families will be "claimed" out of existence.



Personally I feel Jon has hit the nail on the head, one case in the WRC that defines that au-pair as an employee doesn't make all au-pairs employees.
The au-pair helper/employee issue has been around for a long time now and the only time it makes the news is when we have a case of an au-pair been exploited by the family she is helping which was the case last week.
In reference to the OP, they aren't exploiting their au-pair from the info they have provided but I would think the room & board rate was a bit on the high side.
Going forward I would suggest that as you are only intending on paying minimum wage you don't exploit her on the "rent a room" rate as she is providing you with a service that would cost a lot more then the rate you are paying her if you employed an agency nanny


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## Bronte (13 Mar 2016)

I heard an ad on the radio for The Sinday Business Post, they will be covering this issue today.


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## Rory_W (13 Mar 2016)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/types_of_employment/domestic_workers_in_ireland.html


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## Jon Snow (13 Mar 2016)

Rory_W said:


> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/types_of_employment/domestic_workers_in_ireland.html



That applies to workers, and to employees, bona fide au pairs are neither. They're a student taken in as a member of a family, who do some light duties and childminding in return for their upkeep and pocket money. A mutually beneficial arrangement that is nothing to do with employment. 

I feel like the world has gone a new type of insane in the space of a week.


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## mathepac (13 Mar 2016)

"Domestic work is generally accepted to include cleaning, cooking, laundry, child-minding, care of elderly or sick family members, gardening and maintenance, driving, and any other duties relating to a household. *The use of designations such as 'Au Pair' or other descriptions of arrangements between consenting parties do not in themselves mean that a person working in a home is not an employee under Irish law.*"

[broken link removed]


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## Jon Snow (13 Mar 2016)

mathepac said:


> "Domestic work is generally accepted to include cleaning, cooking, laundry, child-minding, care of elderly or sick family members, gardening and maintenance, driving, and any other duties relating to a household. *The use of designations such as 'Au Pair' or other descriptions of arrangements between consenting parties do not in themselves mean that a person working in a home is not an employee under Irish law.*"
> 
> [broken link removed]



When that is contained in a high court ruling I'll agree with it. To be fair to the WRC they probably made the only decision they could in the circumstances, as there is an absence of case law for guidance.

I note once again however, the WRC start from the point where it is established that the au pair is in employment- now I'm not an employment law expert but it's not at all clear to me that there is an employment relationship.

The ILO convention quite clearly applies only to cases where there is an employment relationship: 

(a) the term *domestic work* means work performed in or for a household or households;
(b) the term *domestic worker* means any person engaged in domestic work within an employment relationship;
(c) a person who performs domestic work only occasionally or sporadically and not on an occupational basis is not a domestic worker.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2016)

A friend of mine had an au-pair for 3 months. She was useless, didn't look after the kids very well, did no housework and went out most nights with her friends and therefore couldn't get up in the morning. They were afraid to get rid of her but were delighted when she left. I'm sure they are not unique.


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