# Car free day - What car free day?



## bazermc (22 Sep 2006)

Seemingly today is car free day - What an absolute joke, there was more single occupant cars on the road this morning then most busy days.


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## Bamhan (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

A totally riduculous concept if you ask me, most people simply do not have an alternative to their car.


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## Howitzer (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Bamhan said:


> A totally riduculous concept if you ask me, most people simply do not have an alternative to their car.


 
Err, I guess that's the point. A lot of people think they have no alternative but when pushed do find one, even if it's driving to a colleagues house and car pooling from there.

I pass 2 schools on the way in and noticed a lot more kids walking in today. In fact usually I don't see ANY walking.

I got the bus in, how did youse get in today? Most people see car free day in the same way as public transport: something for other people, if everyone else uses the bus then my commute in my 06 BMW will be so much nicer.


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## Bamhan (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Not an option for most people I know who live outside public transport areas.
If you have children to drop to school and creche etc you need your own car and car seats.
I usually start  my journey with four of us in the car, drop various people to creche, school and work and continue on my own for the remainder of the journey.
People who live in cities may have an alternative but for most rural areas, up to an including large towns there are no alternatives to using your own car.
Where I work people drive from five different counties to work, no option of car pooling there, most have kids, so need car seats, public transport is not an option.
Hence the need for car and often a car occupied by one person.


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## roxy (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Howitzer said:


> I pass 2 schools on the way in and noticed a lot more kids walking in today. In fact usually I don't see ANY walking.


 
I'd say they wanted to go tree dodging after all that were blown down last night!


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## bazermc (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Here is a list of alternatives to a car
1.Motorbike
2.Scooter/moped
3.Cycle
4.Walk (If possible)
5.Luas
6.Dart
7.Commuter train
8.Dublin bus or regional bus

Thats 8 alternatives to a car all possible within Dublin so there is no valid excuse for taking your car and in some cases insisting on stopping on the roundabout to let your precious passenger get out!!!!


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## contemporary (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

if you want to ride a bike move to china 

i drive 20 miles to work,  so options 3 & 4 are out there is no luas service dart or communter train near me and the bus doesnt serve where i work, i would have to get a bus to the city centre and then a bus out and then walk which would take 2 hours. I cant ride a motorbike or moped so my options are.....the car


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## TarfHead (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

I get the DART at the same time every morning. Every other morning, it has 8 carriages.

This morning, where people mighgt have been prompted to leave the car at home and use the DART, 'my' DART was 6 carriages, thus making it impossible for people at stations nearer town to board.

Joined-up thinking ? Nah, that would never catch-on here  

My wife considered getting a bus this morning to drop the little girl off at Montessori, as opposed to a 10 minute drive. When she realised that it would involve 8 bus journeys (16 individual tickets and would probably need exact change for each fare), she used the motor instead.


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## lmd (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Who comes up with this 'car free day' idea?  The transport system in this country is a joke!  Why in the name of God would anybody consider any of the options suggested above in this country, the weather does not lend itself to half of them.

It's all very well suggesting it in big cities like London and most of the other European cities, where they have excellent (non-monopoly run) bus services and a proper underground system which links up the whole city but this country is still in the dark ages when it comes to alternatives to driving.  My boss is not going to listen to my hard luck story if I try to walk 15 minutes to my nearest bus stop, get on a very infrequently run bus, sit in traffic for at least 90 minutes and then another 20 minute walk and I'm late...

Lucky you if you can afford to live in town and walk to work, or are on a decent bus route as you can afford to live that near the city - but stop annoying me and everyone else with this 'car free day' nonsense.


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## ney001 (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



bazermc said:


> Here is a list of alternatives to a car
> 1.Motorbike
> 2.Scooter/moped
> 3.Cycle
> ...





Okay in an ideal world we would all leave the cars at home and save the environment and cut down on commute times etc etc etc but I think if you want to drive your car into work drive your car into work - god knows we pay enough to keep cars on the road so why should we just drive them at the weekend!.  Fair play to those that get the bus, luas etc blue peter badge in the post but don't get on your high horse because we want to drive to work in comfort.


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## Bamhan (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Ok to whoever composed the list of alternatives you clearly do not have kids!


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## liteweight (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Bamhan said:


> Ok to whoever composed the list of alternatives you clearly do not have kids!



I don't know about that. A bike might be good....one behind you on the saddle, one on the crossbar, one one your shoulders and the last one running behind!!


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## Glenbhoy (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



bazermc said:


> Here is a list of alternatives to a car
> 1.Motorbike
> 2.Scooter/moped
> 3.Cycle
> ...


Bazermc, i'm all in favour of using public transport and do so daily myself (lets me catch up on my fiction reading).  But, for many people within or without the Dublin city area, cars are the only realistic option.  I'm lucky cos I happen to go directly to the city centre, if i worked on the outskirts or opposite side of the city i would have no alternative but to take the car.  Our public transport is a shambles, in most cases to take public transport would take double the commute time.  My wife for example currently drives, her journey is approx 45 mins, public transport would take a min of 1hr 45, presuming everything ran smoothly.
As for alternatives 1,2,3 - I would not dare venture out on the roads of Dublin in a bi-wheel vehicle of any sort, maybe if some people had licences i'd consider it


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## Bamhan (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



liteweight said:


> I don't know about that. A bike might be good....one behind you on the saddle, one on the crossbar, one one your shoulders and the last one running behind!!



Ok I'll have to adopt or borrow one more so


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## Swallows (22 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

We seem to be living in two different countries here,* Dublin* and the rest of the country. There are no buses around here where I live and the buses we do have only stop in the towns. So, you have to first of all get to the town to get on the bus and after that you have a choice, get on and stay on until you reach the next town because that is where the next stop is, whether you want to go as far as the town or not. There is no such thing as getting off anywhere en route. So we can't have a no car day around here can we?


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## lmd (23 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

We can't have one in Dublin either, back to the original OP - What a joke!


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## Marie M (23 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Riding a bike in Dublin these days is seriously dicing with death


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## bazermc (23 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Marie M said:


> Riding a bike in Dublin these days is seriously dicing with death



Absolutely - there was a man killed this afternoon in town.  God rest his sole.

Its high time car drivers opened there eyes and stop playing with their bloody CD player, air conditioning, mobile phone, make-up etc.......................


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## RainyDay (24 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Bamhan said:


> Ok to whoever composed the list of alternatives you clearly do not have kids!



Rubbish - I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas. I see one Dad taking his secondary school daughter on his moped regularly. I've see one father herding 2 kids on bikes through Dublin 6 recently. There are alternatives - don't use kids as an excuse.

And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.


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## lmd (24 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.


 
Unless you've been living in outer Mongolia for the last 10 years, you will know that the majority of people buying homes now can not afford to pick and choose where they want to live and 'take into account' the transport options - most people now have to move further away from where they would like to live (and where they work) so not everyone can pop onto the Luas with their children in the morning, what a luxury....


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## Erith (24 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

"I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas"

The Luas! Of course, why didn't I think of that. Possiby because the closest stop is about an hour away. Any other bright ideas? Maybe I should have just had more money and bought a nice place in Dundrum.


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## RainyDay (24 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



lmd said:


> Unless you've been living in outer Mongolia for the last 10 years, you will know that the majority of people buying homes now can not afford to pick and choose where they want to live and 'take into account' the transport options - most people now have to move further away from where they would like to live (and where they work) so not everyone can pop onto the Luas with their children in the morning, what a luxury....


It's not a question of luxuries. I've seen people choose Edenderry or Edgeworthstown and a 90-120 minute each way commute because they don't like the houses that they can afford in Dublin. So choices are being made - prioritising image and 'what mummy might say' over family time. I've seen people refuse to consider working away from Dublin solely out a fear that they might miss out on a promotion. Again, choices, choices, choices.


Erith said:


> "I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas"
> 
> The Luas! Of course, why didn't I think of that. Possiby because the closest stop is about an hour away. Any other bright ideas? Maybe I should have just had more money and bought a nice place in Dundrum.



Have you heard of [broken link removed]?


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## golden mean (24 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

I have lived in a city where they had a real car free day every year- Brussels. Police checkpoints to stop you driving, you need to apply in advance to your local commune for a permit if you absolutely have to drive on that day. There are taxis of course. The whole of the central area is involved- the Dublin equivalent would be everything inside the M50.

In Brussels they always have it on a Sunday, because even they realise that people cannot get to work without cars and businesses would not stand for it if their customers could not travel to them. No one cares if you can't get out on your Sunday apparently- can't visit granny in the old folks home, can't take your kids out (Bamhan I am with you- buggies into old fashioned trams will not go). I took mine out for a walk and could not cross the road because of all the cyclists breaking the red light.

I am firmly with the sceptics on this one. Lets invest our energy and money in providing a usable alternative (buses that run on time, transferable tickets, and the rest) and not into these PC projects that make normal people feel like THEY are somehow the problem!


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## contemporary (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.




they need to take their pocket into account first....


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## Bamhan (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> Rubbish - I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas. I see one Dad taking his secondary school daughter on his moped regularly. I've see one father herding 2 kids on bikes through Dublin 6 recently. There are alternatives - don't use kids as an excuse.
> 
> And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.



There is NO public transport where I chose to live which is a rural location. Kids are not an excuse, I make no apologies for using my car.
I took transport options into account when chosing to live in a rural location and decided I would be happy to use my car when I needed to.


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## Glenbhoy (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> I see one Dad taking his secondary school daughter on his moped regularly.
> And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.


Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.
Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.


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## bogwarrior (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Glenbhoy said:


> Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.
> Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.



your 2 points kind of contradict each other.  If the only realistic option for the individual in question is to bring the kid on his moped what choice does he have (assuming its legal to carry a passenger on a moped)?
I know people who think carrying a kid in a Hyandui is irresponsible......


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## TarfHead (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Glenbhoy said:


> Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.


 
I remember, last year, seeing an adult driving a moped towards the local national school. A small child was standing on the footplate in front of him and an older child (though probably under 12) was sitting on pillion wearing an adult helmet. Both the driver and the small child were bare headed.

They were travelling slowly and it may have been a first day of school treat but ..


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## Bamhan (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Probably a way of teaching the kid not to be scared at school, beacue if he/she could survive that trip then school was a walk in the park!


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## nelly (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

Hey it is a great notion but never organised at all and therefore always going to be a failure. 
I did buy in a cheaper area of the city (top €€ of i could afford) mainly because it was on the bus line and i thought if the worst got to the worst i could give up the car. I have not gotten it for work - too flippin awkward, but i do use the bus and my backpack to go shopping in town to avoid parking charges. 

if they rowed back and tried it on a Sunday it woud be far better and might entice people to consider it.


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## Cahir (25 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*

I wasn't even aware that there was a car free day last Friday!!


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## RainyDay (26 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Bamhan said:


> There is NO public transport where I chose to live which is a rural location. Kids are not an excuse, I make no apologies for using my car.
> I took transport options into account when chosing to live in a rural location and decided I would be happy to use my car when I needed to.


It's nice to know that you're happy about using your car. However, your happiness is not the only issue. Your impact on the rest of the inhabitants of this planet is also an issue.


Glenbhoy said:


> Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.


Why? I have to admit that the first concern that came to my mind was bullying/slagging, given that the girl was wearing the uniform of a fairly snooty private school where half the sixth years seem to drive their own cars to school.


Glenbhoy said:


> Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.


I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?


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## lmd (26 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?


 
You're going round in circles RainyDay - we've established that the public transport system in this country is rubbish so just give it up will ya


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## bazermc (26 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



Cahir said:


> I wasn't even aware that there was a car free day last Friday!!



Thanks, back to my original point - What car free day?


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## Glenbhoy (26 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> Why? I have to admit that the first concern that came to my mind was bullying/slagging, given that the girl was wearing the uniform of a fairly snooty private school where half the sixth years seem to drive their own cars to school.
> I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?


The slagging thought struck me too!!
You are right too in that many people do take the car when they don't have too, I can't understand it myself, as I use the bus for catching up on my reading/sleep!


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## RainyDay (26 Sep 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



lmd said:


> we've established that the public transport system in this country is rubbish


Exactly what 'we' are you referring to here, and where/when did 'we' establish this?


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## Purple (26 Sep 2006)

I have no option but to use a car. My commute into work is 30 minutes in a car. Public transport would take over 2 hours. The trip home would be 35 minutes in a car and 1 hour and 45 minutes on the bus. Yes I have tried it. 
On a bike it takes 40 minutes in and 50 minutes home (up hill). I did this for 4 years and would continue to do so except that I need my car for work during the day. I don’t accept that cycling is any more dangerous now than it was 5 or 10 years ago and yes, I still cycle around Dublin city centre. 
More and better roads would do more to reduce pollution from cars than any number of gimmicks like no car day. It’s just another ball of smoke.
Holding up the odd person who is lucky enough to be able to use public transport to drop off their kids before work as an example for the rest of us to follow is spurious. The reality is that most people who use their car have no real alternative.
The reality is that many poor areas are very badly served by public transport and this is a major factor in social exclusion and ghettoisation. The LUAS red line is a notable exception but it is a drop in the ocean. We should not just look at public transport as a way of ferrying middle income suburbanites to and from work, we should look at it as an essential way of promoting social cohesion. For example, how long does it take an 18 year old from Coolock get to UCD on a bus? Tallaght is the same size as Limerick city so even the red line is no good for most of the people who live there. Where are the secure areas to lock a bicycle at the LUAS park and ride facilities? Where are the same areas at park and ride facilities on QBC’s? Most of the recent investment in our public transport infrastructure is designed to help people with cars get around the place easier. Environmental issues are important but they should not be considered to the exclusion of the wider social function that public transport is supposed to serve.


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## RainyDay (26 Sep 2006)

The claim that you and others have 'no option' or 'no alternative' but to commute by car is predicated on the assumption that live at A and work at B. My point is that these are not 'givens' - you have the option of changing your home or work location over time. Obviously, these would be major changes and not done lightly, but they can indeed be changed over time. I'm simply putting out the fairly basic idea that we to consider our commute/transport options when choosing our home and work locations, rather than expecting public funds to fix any commuting problem at a later stage.

I don't at all accept that more/better road will reduce pollution or commute times. History shows us that every road that we build gets quickly clogged up. Neither do I accept that it is hugely important for the state to provide a bus service from Coolock to UCD, if (and I'm making an assumption here) they provide a decent regular service from Coolock to DCU. Many of the Luas stations that I've seen do indeed have bike locking areas.

Our first priority should be more public transport. We should have more buses on the streets as soon as they can be shipped in. We need to join up the Luas lines and build the planned Metro links.


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## Purple (27 Sep 2006)

RainyDay said:


> The claim that you and others have 'no option' or 'no alternative' but to commute by car is predicated on the assumption that live at A and work at B. My point is that these are not 'givens' - you have the option of changing your home or work location over time. Obviously, these would be major changes and not done lightly, but they can indeed be changed over time. I'm simply putting out the fairly basic idea that we to consider our commute/transport options when choosing our home and work locations, rather than expecting public funds to fix any commuting problem at a later stage.


 Yes, we can all work where we live or live where we work but it’s not a realistic solution. Why should people not expect their taxes to be spent on things that make their lives better, like better roads?



RainyDay said:


> Neither do I accept that it is hugely important for the state to provide a bus service from Coolock to UCD, if (and I'm making an assumption here) they provide a decent regular service from Coolock to DCU.


 I was making the general point that public transport has a social function as well as an environmental one and this can be lost in the “car bad – Bus good” simplistic arguments that feature in the media. I am surprised that you did not realise that.



RainyDay said:


> Our first priority should be more public transport. We should have more buses on the streets as soon as they can be shipped in. We need to join up the Luas lines and build the planned Metro links.


 I agree but this can and should be as well as, not instead of, road building. The reality is that most people need their cars (in as much as anyone needs anything other than food and basic shelter) and it is not unreasonable to expect a booming economy to be able to finance good road infrastructure.


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## Ceist Beag (27 Sep 2006)

Sorry Purple, gotta admit I agree with RainyDay here. The roads are not the issue (at least not in our cities and surrounding areas). The money should be put into better public transport as the public transport in Ireland (especially in the cities) is shocking. Compare Dublin to any large city around the world and it fares poorly. Paris, London, Rome et al all have proper integrated public transport systems where you can hop on one metro or whatever, switch over to another half way to your destination and be able to cross the city easily without having to walk half of it. This is what we should be aiming for - and that means aiming for integrating the LUAS trains and putting a metro into Dublin - I can't speak for the other cities but I'd imagine they qould require something similar.
If we had this then the next obvious step (or perhaps in conjunction with putting these in place) would be park and ride facilities at the edges of the city to facilitate people who need to drive to the city.


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## lmd (27 Sep 2006)

RainyDay and Ceist Beag - we KNOW all this (that we need better public transport), and when that happens THEN I will be happy to leave my car at home. 

RainyDay you seemed to have changed your tune from ranting about people leaving cars at home now to admitting that the public transport needs to be better before it will happen so at least that's something.

As for the 'basic idea' that people need to consider their commute options when choosing where to live, IT'S VERY SIMPLE - people have to work in the cities to pay their massive mortgages, but can't afford to live in the cities because the property is too expensive, so it's very annoying to hear you make it sound easy to get your work and home close to one another or that it can be 'changed over time'. You don't seem to have much concept of the difficulties first time buyers are having getting anywhere to live never mind buying where they'd like to live.


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## RainyDay (28 Sep 2006)

lmd said:


> As for the 'basic idea' that people need to consider their commute options when choosing where to live, IT'S VERY SIMPLE - people have to work in the cities to pay their massive mortgages, but can't afford to live in the cities because the property is too expensive, so it's very annoying to hear you make it sound easy to get your work and home close to one another or that it can be 'changed over time'. You don't seem to have much concept of the difficulties first time buyers are having getting anywhere to live never mind buying where they'd like to live.



Hi lmd - I'm very conscious of the difficulties faced by first time buyers today, and I've seen the impact of these difficulties first-hand with family members. However, I've also seen the hypocracy of those who whinge endlessly about house prices while spending €300 on a good night out every weekend. I've seen the hypocracy of those who whinge about long commutes who won't consider property in Finglas, or Tallaght, or East Wall or at the back of Blanch because Mummy wouldn't like it. I've seen the hypocracy of those who whinge about the rat race and working long hours while refusing to manage their career and the time.

First time buyers aren't victims - there are many things within their control.



Purple said:


> Yes, we can all work where we live or live where we work but it’s not a realistic solution. Why should people not expect their taxes to be spent on things that make their lives better, like better roads?


Why not realistic? I realise it can't happen overnight, but please be specific about why this is not a realistic option? We can keep building the roads, and usage will expand to soak up the available capacity. It's a never ending cycle with no solution.


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## Purple (28 Sep 2006)

RainyDay said:


> Why not realistic? I realise it can't happen overnight, but please be specific about why this is not a realistic option?


 Because in most families both parents work. So you are expecting people to be able to either both find jobs that suit their skills and needs in the area that they wish to live in or find a house in an area where they can both find jobs that suit their skills and needs.
Your proposition is not viable or realistic in the short of medium term and in my opinion is not realistic at any time in the foreseeable future. 
I do agree that people who do make what is a lifestyle choice to move to the proverbial big house in the country shouldn’t complain about the commute but this is not the scenario for the vast majority of people.


RainyDay said:


> We can keep building the roads, and usage will expand to soak up the available capacity. It's a never ending cycle with no solution.


 Why is it a never ending cycle? Other countries have a good road infrastructure and less congestion than us. The same scenario that you suggest could be applied to public transport or any other infrastructure. Do you suggest that we should stop building schools because people will keep having children to fill them?


By the way your inference that people will not but a house  “in Finglas, or Tallaght, or East Wall or at the back of Blanch because Mummy wouldn't like it” is offensive. People choose to live in an area for many reasons. They may have family that they need or who need them, they may have friends and a social network that they think is important and weight heavily when choosing a place to live. They may think that their quality of life and more importantly the quality of life of their children will be better in one area over another. You also ignore the huge proportion of the population that live in rural areas; many of them are not making a lifestyle choice when they commute to their job, they are surviving.


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## Glenbhoy (28 Sep 2006)

Purple said:


> Other countries have a good road infrastructure and less congestion than us.


Is that actually true?  I know that most developed nations have better roads and much better public transport systems than us, but I can't think of anywhere I've been where traffic congestion is much better than here (possibly OZ), and can think of many places where congestion appears much worse (I exclude the Americas here as I have never been).


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## Purple (28 Sep 2006)

Glenbhoy said:


> Is that actually true?  I know that most developed nations have better roads and much better public transport systems than us, but I can't think of anywhere I've been where traffic congestion is much better than here (possibly OZ), and can think of many places where congestion appears much worse (I exclude the Americas here as I have never been).


I drive in Germany quite a bit and I can get around cities much bigger than Dublin much easier. I have less experience driving in the USA but Boston and towns in Florida were much easier to get around than Dublin. There will always be some congestion but nothing as bad as here. I am not suggesting that we are the worst, far from it. Anyone who has been stuck on a ring road around London for three hours will know this.


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## Dowee (28 Sep 2006)

I have to agree with Rainyday here, it is all down to choices. Just because a choice might be difficult doesn't mean you don't have one. I used to drive to work (approx 8 miles) but I got sick of traffic and so now I cycle. Cycling means I sometimes get wet, it is cold in the winter and sometimes it can be a pain. Just because there are negatives attached to it doesn't mean I don't have a choice. 

It has no gotten to the point where if I'm to change jobs it would have to be to a "cycle friendly" workplace, similar to where I work now. Again this is a choice.

Cycling of course isn't for everyone, I'm just citing my example. But often people think they don't have options when in fact it is just a case that they aren't thinking of any. There will always be people who have to drive but there's no way that everyone on the road each day absolutely has to be there.


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## Bamhan (28 Sep 2006)

You have a choice when your commute is 8 miles, hardly a marathon is it?

I LOVE living in a rural area and equally LOVE working in a city so I choose to comute and the only option is to drive.

30 miles each way.......

Certainly no option to work closer to home, I could chose to live closer to work but l don't want to.

When car free days are suggested they really are thinking of cities I think where public transport is a viable option for some people.


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## HelloJed (28 Sep 2006)

I don't own a car so this wouldn't really affect me...but a mate of mine was talking about the congestion charge in London and how it's tougher on the poor than the rich.

He suggested maybe charging people who only had one person in their car when entering central Dublin, but cars who had two or more people in it would not be charged.

What I was wondering is - who out there would be willing to car share? I mean, most of us live in estates where there must be a few people who work near we do. And if the government set up decent car pool or car share sites, do you think that would be a viable option? Or is the reality that people love their cars and want a bit of piece and quiet in the morning, along with the practicality of driving?

Another option I thought of was that parents could pay an annual fee and have a mini-bus pick up their kids from their estate and bring them back and forth to school. I was brought up abroad and all communities where I lived did this. Do you think this would be acceptable here?


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## Dowee (28 Sep 2006)

Bamhan said:


> You have a choice when your commute is 8 miles, hardly a marathon is it?


I didn't claim it was a marathon.



Bamhan said:


> Certainly no option to work closer to home, I could chose to live closer to work but l don't want to.



I'm glad we agree that you have a choice and you have chosen to live 30 miles from work and commute everyday.


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## daltonr (28 Sep 2006)

Of course everybody has choices. People could choose to leave Ireland completely and pursue their career in countries that do provide a means of getting around, be it by public transport as in New York or London, or by facilitating motorists as in Florida.

But just because people have the option to radically change their life style, doesn't get the countries like Ireland off the hook of providing facilities.

It's very worrying to hear people on this thread advising others to change job, or move house so that they can use public transport. What the hell kind of country do you want to create?

What you are in fact proposing is a country in which the options of the citizen are radically REDUCED. Why shouldn't a person in a free country expect to be able to live in the countryside and work in the city? Why is it so difficult to create that option for people?

It's the perfect work/life balance as far as I can see. Having grown up in the countryside and later lived in cities I know damn well where I'd prefer to raise kids. But to listen to the Public transport advocates, I shouldn't be allowed to choose that way of life. Or if I do choose It I must put up with nagging from the perenially naive that I'm wrong to choose to take my car to work because I'm destroying the environment.

Get over it. If you want to stop cars in your cities then build some park and rides on the outskirts so that people who live outside the city have somewhere to park and provide city transport that will get them in a reasonable time and with minimum hassle to their place of work/shopping/whatever.

For many currently looking for a house the option to buy in the cities DOES NOT EXIST. I'm sure many who live 50-100 miles from work and spend up to 4 hours a day commuting would much rather live closer to or even in cities. But the option does not exist. It like many other options has been elimintated by the way your cities have been developed, and by the way your government interacts with property developers and investors.

The last thing these people need on top of the hassle of spending hours everyday driving, is to listen to people telling them that on top of everything else they are destroying the planet.

Even those who might have the option of "over time" moving their home closer to work must put up with the fact that they would have to flush thousands of Euro in Stamp Duty on their existing house down the toilet, and flush even more on the purchase of their new house.

If you want a country in which people can move around then aim your guns at the idiotic policies that make moving harder, rather than at people barely making ends meet, despite earning a reasonable salary.

And please, for the love of god, if you are one of those people fortunate enough to have bought a house in Dublin a couple of years ago, with public transport options on your doorstep, and a nice chunk of equity in your property, then please remove yourself from this debate entirely. You have no concept of the OPTIONS that people actually have today.

When you start telling governments that instead of providing services they can instead curtail your rights then you are on a slippery slope. It reminds me of Fianna Fail's attempts to curtail the rights of people with disabilities to sue the government when the government failed to provide services that they were entitled to.

When otherwise intelligent rational people begin to accept that kind of thinking then you really have to worry about the future of the country. Perhaps in the end, you do get the government you deserve.  Am I in the minority for thinking we deserve more than this?

-Rd


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## Bamhan (28 Sep 2006)

Dowee said:


> I'm glad we agree that you have a choice and you have chosen to live 30 miles from work and commute everyday.



Yes I get the best of both worlds in my eyes and the commute does not bother me in the slightest.

People who go on about my choices are slightly irritating though not hugely so.


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## TarfHead (28 Sep 2006)

In the UK the Royal family provide an example to the nation of how to safely negotiate the school run in an eco-friendly manner.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/09/linley250906_700x505.jpg

Notice the premium Viscount Linley has placed on the safety of his 4 year old daughter ?


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## Dowee (28 Sep 2006)

Bamhan said:


> You have a choice when your commute is 8 miles,
> 
> so I choose to comute and the only option is to drive.
> 
> I could chose to live closer to work but l don't want to.





Bamhan said:


> People who go on about my choices are slightly irritating though not hugely so.



Couldn't agree more


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## RainyDay (28 Sep 2006)

Hi Rd - Good to see you back on AAM, though I have to confess that I'm a little disturbed by your suggestion that certain people should 'remove themselves' from the debate. AAM is open to all prepared to stay within the posting guidelines. I might feel that those who live outside the country (or those who live inside the country but want to live outside the country) should not be listened to, but that of course would be wrong. 

Your suggestion of park-and-ride facilities to avoid bringing cars into the city is of course eminently sensible. It's a great idea. But I disagree with your suggestion that we should be highlighting the environmental issues associated with car usage, Prime Time tonight highlighted that Ireland has one of the worst records in the developed world for CO2 pollution and was considering scenarios that involved flooding of the runway at Shannon and Tarbert power station. We can't stick out heads in the sand and ignore these issues, regardless of how disturbing they are.

I don't accept your claim that it is just not possible to live 'in the city'. Myhome.ie has 36 properties in Dublin at under €250k (I excluded sites and properties incorrectly priced at zero from my search).

Hi Purple - Yes, I understand that people have many different reasons for choosing where they live, and I fully accept their rights to do so. I'm just suggesting that they tone down the whinging about their long commutes, when it is clearly not such a huge priority for them.


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## nlgbbbblth (1 Oct 2006)

*Re: Car free day - What car free day????*



RainyDay said:


> I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?


 
I can vouch for this.

I travel to work by walking to the bus stop - 20 minutes - and sitting on a bus for another 15/20 minutes. In a building of 25 people, 22 people drive, two get the bus while one walks. 
Of the 22 drivers, three of them live less than 15 minutes walk away but insist on driving. I estimate that at least seven or eight of them could get the bus if they wanted to. I am not including people with children.

In my previous position, the office was a three minute walk from the DART station. Yet there were four people living not more than a few train stops away who insisted on driving - which took around twice as long as the DART. Again, these people were not dropping children off or anything like that.

While public transport in Ireland leaves a lot to be desired there is a significant minority out there who will insist on driving at all costs. Even when there are alternatives. For some of those people, travelling by public transport carries a stigma. Maybe they subscribe to the Margaret Thatcher school of thought - [paraphrased] 'any man over the age of 30 who finds him on a bus should consider himself a failure at life'.

The obsession with SUVs and larger environmentally-unfriendly vehicles is disappointing. Try to suggest walking / public transport to some of these people - citing it as a 'greener' option -  and watch the reaction you get.


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