# Rant: Flat screen full HD Televisions..Obsolete!



## Knuttell (14 Dec 2010)

> CHRISTMAS shoppers are in danger of buying digital TVs that are not  compatible with the new Irish digital service and will be useless in a  year's time.
> At the end of 2012, Saorview, [broken link removed]'s new digital service, will be up and running.
> By that time, all Irish homes need to upgrade their TV sets to receive a digital signal to watch RTE One, RTE Two, [broken link removed] and [broken link removed]  as the analogue terrestrial television network -- which is the system  of watching television stations through an outdoor or indoor aerial --  will be switched off.
> [broken link removed] TD and consumer protection spokeswoman [broken link removed] warned shoppers buying a new digital TV this Christmas to make sure the set is MPEG4-compatible.
> ...



Thus is the first I have read about this major development,
I bought a Sony Bravia 40V4000 2 years ago only to find out today after reading this article that my 40"full HD flat screen will be obsolete in 2 years!!
I do not subscribe to SKY or UPC so thanks to this massive oversight in communications/roll out,probably by some over paid civil servant,I will have to buy another television in 2 years time
Surely some Govt dept has responsibility for this incompetent carry on,it should not be down to a FG TD to highlight/flag this to consumers.
This country is so backward its utterly infuriating and highlights once again *"why we are where we are*"


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> probably by some over paid civil servant


 
What an over reaction. There is loads of information on this on this site and others and you wont have to replace you TV, however you will need to buy a decoder box if you TV is not mpeg4 compatible.

Why do we always look for someone else to blame in this country?

I dont think "we are where we are" because nobody informed you and freeview.


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## Brouhahaha (14 Dec 2010)

This looks like incorrect reporting to me. See question 9 at the link below. You will need a set top box (assuming your TV hasn't built in MPEG4 support).

[broken link removed]


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## Green (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> What an over reaction. There is loads of information on this on this site and others and you wont have to replace you TV, however you will need to buy a decoder box if you TV is not mpeg4 compatible.
> 
> Why do we always look for someone else to blame in this country?
> 
> I dont think "we are where we are" because nobody informed you and freeview.


 
+1. well said. Perhaps the OP can let us all know what research they did when buying their tv?


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## Leo (14 Dec 2010)

Total over-reaction here. The introduction of digital television here has been widely reported for years at this stage. If you want to blame anyone here, you'll have to look at yourself as YOBR points out for not researching a major purchase properly.


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## Knuttell (14 Dec 2010)

Leo said:


> If you want to blame anyone here, you'll have to look at yourself as YOBR points out for not researching a major purchase properly.



Of course I am aware of the roll out of the roll out of digital television,that is not the point,the point is televisions were being sold and probably still are that cannot support the signal making them obsolete within years,are you seriously telling me that the majority of the people buying televisions were asking that question 2 to 3 years ago?

My point is quite simple,why are televisions that will not fit for purpose in a few years allowed to be sold in this country and please save the not researching the purchase properly nonsense,its a television for Gods sake you expect it to be able to receive RTE1 & RTE 2 at a minimum.




> Why do we always look for someone else to blame in this country?


Indeed no one is really to blame for anything in this country,the massive financial meltdown in our Banks just happened on its own did it?silliest comment I have read in a long time.


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

Knuttell said:


> My point is quite simple,why are televisions that will not fit for purpose in a few years allowed to be sold in this country and please save the not researching the purchase properly nonsense,its a television for Gods sake you expect it to be able to receive RTE1 & RTE 2 at a minimum.



I agree wholeheartedly, these televisions should not have been allowed to be offered for sale. An awful lot of the buying public ( especially the older sector) would not have had an idea what to check, to see if it would be fit to receive home channels in a few years.


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## MrMan (14 Dec 2010)

SparkRite said:


> I agree wholeheartedly, these televisions should not have been allowed to be offered for sale. An awful lot of the buying public ( especially the older sector) would not have had an idea what to check, to see if it would be fit to receive home channels in a few years.



So for the years where we knew what was coming, but no TV's on the market were future proof you think that no TV's should have been sold?
Shut down a whole industry in and retail sector over the Irish digital signal...


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## tiger (14 Dec 2010)

A set top box will solve the problem
[broken link removed] one is €100 but a Freeview HD also works I believe and maybe cheaper.
Expect Lidl/Aldi to stock at some point also!


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## Knuttell (14 Dec 2010)

There was no problem informing consumers which TVs were HD ready and  Full HD,it was right up there on the price sticker,there is going to be  some very annoyed people who on top of having to replace aerials etc are  also going to have to buy decoders or indeed new televisions...

If you  are someone who lives on forums and has a post count in the  thousands,then of course you are more up to speed than your average Joe  and Mary Sixpack and to answer your question,no those televisions should  not have been for sale,they are not fit for purpose,end of story.

There should have  been a line drawn at a certain date and beyond which TVs whose spec did  not include mpeg4 should not have been allowed for sale to the consumer.

It really is that simple


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

MrMan said:


> So for the years where we knew what was coming, but no TV's on the market were future proof you think that no TV's should have been sold?
> Shut down a whole industry in and retail sector over the Irish digital signal...



I never said nor implied that NO TVs should have been sold, just those that in 2/3 years would not be fit for the purpose that they were sold for without some additional hardware.

Thats all,  plain and simple!


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## fraggle (14 Dec 2010)

Or we could just keep going as we are and not receive the Irish channels............


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> Indeed no one is really to blame for anything in this country,the massive financial meltdown in our Banks just happened on its own did it?


 
Knuttell. I bought a new HTC Desire HD phone recently and thought that I could subscribe and watch Sky sports on it the same way my friends can on the iPhone. I can’t but it’s not the banks fault or “some over paid civil servant” as you put it. 

Yes the banks played a big part in the problems the country is going through but they cannot be blamed on the fact that you cannot watch Irish freeview channels in a couple of years time. So there is no point in going off on a rant. GET OVER IT.


Now google DTT or Saorview or freeview Ireland and all the information you need is there and has been for some time now. Or Boards.ie has forum after forum and also askaboutmoney to name but a few. The Irish Times and Indo have done lots of articles also.


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## Knuttell (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> Yes the banks played a big part in the problems the country is going through but they cannot be blamed on the fact that you cannot watch Irish freeview channels in a couple of years time. So there is no point in going off on a rant. GET OVER IT.



You asked in an earlier post 





> Why do we always look for someone else to blame in this country?


Its a stupid comment,of course when something goes wrong there is usually someone sitting in a well appointed office on a fat salary who has not managed to do their job to any degree of competence and OF COURSE they should be blamed and held accountable...I used the Banks as an example to highlight this idiocy.

I was not blaming the banks for the fact that my 2 year old television is heading for obsolesce due to the fact that the roll out of this digital changeover has been handled so poorly.

I feel I have communicated clearly enough what my issue is and one which shortly will become an issue for many others in this Country when they find out their 2 year old television cannot pick up RTE 1 AND RTE2 without paying either for modification or a new set.

I disagree completely with you in your belief that this issue concerning peoples television has been widely communicated and consumers are aware of it.


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> of course when something goes wrong there is usually someone sitting in a well appointed office on a fat salary who has not managed to do their job to any degree of competence and OF COURSE they should be blamed and held accountable...


 
With statements like that you sound like you are heading for a break down.


Well of all the forums and articles I have read, you are the only one I have come across with an issue. Most people are delighted to be able to watch 5 or 6 Irish channels in digital. I bought a TV on pixmania about 18 months ago and think the service and picture quality in excellent. 

As for you TV being obsolite, well you can connect to a satellite, to cable subscription, to a Playstation, a Nintendo Wii, xBox, use it as a monitor for you computer etc. My point is that its not obsolete, it’s just not compatible for what you want it for. 
Next thing you will probably go on another rant that it is not 3D compatible....


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

Eeehh.........
have we not gone off topic somewhat??


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> have we not gone off topic somewhat??


 
How?


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> As for you TV being obsolite, well you can connect to a satellite, to cable subscription, to a Playstation, a Nintendo Wii, xBox, use it as a monitor for you computer etc. My point is that its not obsolete, it’s just not compatible for what you want it for.
> Next thing you will probably go on another rant that it is not 3D compatible....



Sorry Sir, I know you bought(we sold you) a petrol powered car, but petrol is no longer available, but you can use it as a trolley, or pushchair, or  somewhere to sleep, or just change the power unit (engine) to diesel. It is not obsolete its just not compatible for what you want. Or indeed for what you bought it for!! Or even for what we sold it to you for.

Get real!!
You buy a kettle to boil water, a bed to sleep in, a cooker to cook with, a camera to take pictures and a television to receive television programs. It is reasonable to assume that what you are sold will work for that purpose (without having to buy further hardware) for at least a few years.


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> How?



Eeeehh just read the last few posts?
What have banks got to do with MPEG4 reception?


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> Sorry Sir, I know you bought(we sold you) a petrol powered car, but petrol is no longer available, but you can use it as a trolley, or pushchair, or somewhere to sleep, or just change the power unit (engine) to diesel. It is not obsolete its just not compatible for what you want. Or indeed for what you bought it for!! Or even for what we sold it to you for.


 

OK, you really don’t get “technology” now do you? And you are being silly now.

Maybe the OP should put it back in its box and ask for a refund or get onto The Consumers' Association of Ireland and look for a refund. If he has a case then he will get a refund, right?

Let me know how you get on because I bought a PC from those shower in PC World 3 years ago with Windows XP on it and now Windows 7 is out and my computer is out of date…I am so angry

That’s the way with technology, it’s a moving target.


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> OK, you really don’t get “technology” now do you? And you are being silly now.
> 
> Maybe the OP should put it back in its box and ask for a refund or get onto The Consumers' Association of Ireland and look for a refund. If he has a case then he will get a refund, right?
> 
> ...



Your PC still works though.
As (or or least I assume) you know any TV without MPEG4 WONT!! 
Unless we use it as a monitor as you suggest, or buy further hardware.
I don't understand what is your problem in agreeing that non compatible TVs should not have been sold in Ireland in the last few years?


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## venice (14 Dec 2010)

> As (or or least I assume) you know any TV without MPEG4 WONT!!


 
Yes it will. Have you not read earlier posts. It will work with an mpeg4 decoder, or a sat disk etc.etc.

But you are correct that it will not work with a technoloogy the was now available 2 years ago when the purchase was made.......


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## theresa1 (14 Dec 2010)

"The main thing is, if you are a SKY or UPC customer MPEG2 and MPEG4 won't make a difference -- your television will work -- so you have nothing at all to worry about,"

The above just adds to confusion.The Manager is just trying to justify MPEG2 set's still being sold. The newspaper article is sloppy to put it mildly.


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## SparkRite (14 Dec 2010)

venice said:


> Yes it will. Have you not read earlier posts. It will work with an mpeg4 decoder, or a sat disk etc.etc.
> 
> But you are correct that it will not work with a technoloogy the was now available 2 years ago when the purchase was made.......



No comment.
End of.


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## roker (15 Dec 2010)

The manufacturers fitted digital tuners to the TVS, If I recall the Irish government were dragging their heal and could not decide what system to used for HDTV tuners. Just to complicate things further, they decided to use a different system to the UK,


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## AlbacoreA (15 Dec 2010)

The TV is not obsolete. Thats just hysteria. 

You can't future proof technology. End of.




Knuttell said:


> ....Sony Bravia 40V4000 2 years ago only to find out today after reading this article that my 40"full HD flat screen will be obsolete in 2 years!!
> I do not subscribe to SKY or UPC ...



I'm curious, since you bought a HD. What HD signal have you been watching for the last 2yrs?


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## PetrolHead (15 Dec 2010)

There are some absolutely ridiculous posts in this thread.

First - The attitude regarding apportioning blame everywhere but with one's self (it can't be my fault as I didn't know... wasn't told... need my hand holding... them in Ivory Towers... blah blah blah)... is a massive contributory factor to the 'current climate' (and I ain't talking about the snow!)... But that's off topic.

There is not the issue with obsolete TVs that Knuttell and various others seem to be so apoplectic about. 

You are saying that all TVs that could not receive the forthcoming digital signal should not have been sold as they will not be 'fit for purpose' (a phrase that seems to be thrown around a lot on these forums by those who want to sound like they 'know-the-law)... especially, it seems, to protect the elderly or average 'Joe Sixpack' that doesn't keep his head stuck in a techie magazine.

A noble standpoint, it may seem.

But let me flip the scenario for you....

"Minister bans sale of basic TV sets forcing pensioners and low income families to purchase expensive equipment, paying hundreds of Euros more than necessary when they can *USE THEIR EXISTING TV SETS OR PURCHASE LOWER SPECIFICATION MODELS ALONG WITH A DECODER BOX FOR AROUND €60*"

How outraged would you all be then...???

...because most of you sound like you enjoy being incensed and look for opportunities to indulge yourselves...!!!


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## Leo (15 Dec 2010)

Good post PetrolHead.


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## huskerdu (15 Dec 2010)

leo said:


> good post petrolhead.



+1


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## Green (15 Dec 2010)

Knuttell said:


> Of course I am aware of the roll out of the roll out of digital television,that is not the point,the point is televisions were being sold and probably still are that cannot support the signal making them obsolete within years,are you seriously telling me that the majority of the people buying televisions were asking that question 2 to 3 years ago?
> 
> My point is quite simple,why are televisions that will not fit for purpose in a few years allowed to be sold in this country and please save the not researching the purchase properly nonsense,its a television for Gods sake you expect it to be able to receive RTE1 & RTE 2 at a minimum.
> 
> Indeed no one is really to blame for anything in this country,the massive financial meltdown in our Banks just happened on its own did it?silliest comment I have read in a long time.


 
I take three things from this post (i) you were aware of the roll out of digital tv, (ii) you did not research the purchase at all, and (iii) you now want to blame someone else for this.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Dec 2010)

Is no one else curious, if hes not using a set top box how hes watching HD on that telly?


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## venice (15 Dec 2010)

> how hes watching HD on that telly?


 
Possibly through a bluray player of PS3 maybe ???


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## Bronte (16 Dec 2010)

PetrolHead said:


> But let me flip the scenario for you....
> 
> "Minister bans sale of basic TV sets forcing pensioners and low income families to purchase expensive equipment, paying hundreds of Euros more than necessary when they can *USE THEIR EXISTING TV SETS OR PURCHASE LOWER SPECIFICATION MODELS ALONG WITH A DECODER BOX FOR AROUND €60*"


 
Or another scenario, the day the Minister discusses the change of signal he asks what will the impact be and gives a direction that it will not happen for 10 years, that within 2 years no television can be sold without being able to comply with the new signal so traders can get rid of their stock and consumers can purchase happy in the knowedge that the TV they buy today will work tomorrow or for say a reasonable TV lifespan of 8 years.


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## AlbacoreA (16 Dec 2010)

Most 10yr old TVs will still work fine with a STB. So its a completely pointless argument. This really only effects people who currently only use the analogue terrestrial signal. I don't find it credible that people would spend hundreds if not thousands, to buy a 40" HD to watch that only.


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## venice (16 Dec 2010)

> gives a direction that it will not happen for 10 years


 
This is a European policy. We are been run by Europe these days or have you not noticed???

Taken from Saorview.ie

The EU has mandated the end of 2012 as the final date for Analogue Switch Off (ASO), by which time Ireland needs to launch a replacement digital transmission system to ensure all Irish audiences can continue to receive free-to-air television.


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## AlbacoreA (16 Dec 2010)

They haven't officially launched it yet either its still only on trial.


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## ajapale (16 Dec 2010)

Feel to continue ranting and letting off steam in this thread.

I have cleaned up a copy and moved it to the TV section for considered discussion surrounding the technical issued raised.


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## shanegl (17 Dec 2010)

Knuttell said:


> Thus is the first I have read about this major development,
> I bought a Sony Bravia 40V4000 2 years ago only to find out today after reading this article that my 40"full HD flat screen will be obsolete in 2 years!!
> I do not subscribe to SKY or UPC so thanks to this massive oversight in communications/roll out,probably by some over paid civil servant,I will have to buy another television in 2 years time
> Surely some Govt dept has responsibility for this incompetent carry on,it should not be down to a FG TD to highlight/flag this to consumers.
> This country is so backward its utterly infuriating and highlights once again *"why we are where we are*"



Why did ou bother blowing all that money on a HD TV if you were just going to watch analogue broadcasts?


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## Latrade (17 Dec 2010)

Well there is an element of incompetence behind this, but not that much. MPEG 2 compression is certainly the UK version and a large part of the world at the moment. Timing means that Ireland is launching its service at the advent of using MPEG 4, so the brightside is that this is actually the state showing some foresightand opting for the better version at the get-go.

However, the manufacturers and the retailers can't be blamed, MPEG 2 was the standard and with all the faffing around to start the process here, it was assumed/unsure as to what version it would be. It's not that long since it was formally declared to be MPEG 4, but by that time tvs had been made, ordered and sold. 

You're going to need a set top box anyway to get even the basic channels. You won't have to subscribe to sky or upc, these will be a one off cost and you will be able to access the same channels and all other free to air channels available here. Not only that, but because it's MPEG 4, it'll be a better quality even for the standard definition digital television.

So really as others have said, there is an element of incompetence, but it means nothing as you always were going to have to get some form of set top box, it just means it'll have to be a newer, more uptodate and more future proof set top box than was originally thought.

I think this may have a knock on for Sky and UPC if you don't have HD STBs. May be wrong, but their standard digital is MPEG 2, they'll have to upgrade their boxes IIRC, but I assume they'll just want everyone to upgrade to HD boxes.


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## SparkRite (17 Dec 2010)

Latrade said:


> You're going to need a set top box anyway to get even the basic channels.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> So really as others have said, there is an element of incompetence, but it means nothing as you always were going to have to get some form of set top box, .................



Simply NOT true, any TV with a digital tuner capable of receiving MPEG4 transmissions will get the basic channels even with a coat hanger as an aerial.


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## Latrade (17 Dec 2010)

SparkRite said:


> Simply NOT true, any TV with a digital tuner capable of receiving MPEG4 transmissions will get the basic channels even with a coat hanger as an aerial.


 
Yup, I was acoounting for the "non-digital" ready, which at last count is still the majority, who would require some form of STB (as long as they have scart capabilities).

Anyway, it's still hardly "obsolete" and it's still hardly a scam. It's the most up-to-date compression and even now before the whole thing is even launched, basic MPEG 4 decoders are around €100 on piximania, or you can go up to €200 for a HD/recording combo. Some TV's also have a CI slot on the side, there are cards available with the mpeg 4 codecs etc.

The point is, you don't have to throw away your television.


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## Pique318 (20 Dec 2010)

And don't forget that if we went with Mpeg2, there'd be people moaning about why we didn't go with the best available tech at the time (Mpeg4) or why did we follow the Brits etc.

You can never please everyone.

Besides, OP, your TV may have blown up by then. Older CRT TVs are much hardier, and a Mpeg 4 STB will mean they enjoy the use of it for probably longer than someone buying a new HD/3D LCD/Plasma/LED TV with a built-in Mpeg4 tuner for many times the price.


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## Lak (20 Dec 2010)

I look back fondly on the days when we had three channels at best, no remote controls and you had to get up every fifteen minutes to give the box a good whack to stop it from flickering.
I bought a new 3D tv and blue ray player this weekend and boy my head hurts trying to decipher the mystery that is modern technology.


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## werner (21 Dec 2010)

Knuttell said:


> Thus is the first I have read about this major development,
> I bought a Sony Bravia 40V4000 2 years ago only to find out today after reading this article that my 40"full HD flat screen will be obsolete in 2 years!!
> I do not subscribe to SKY or UPC so thanks to this massive oversight in communications/roll out,probably by some over paid civil servant,I will have to buy another television in 2 years time
> Surely some Govt dept has responsibility for this incompetent carry on,it should not be down to a FG TD to highlight/flag this to consumers.
> This country is so backward its utterly infuriating and highlights once again *"why we are where we are*"


 
It was a gross incompetence by the Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan in delivering a system that is incompatible with Irelands nearest neighbour the UK.

Not unexpected I might based on their record in government


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## BillK (21 Dec 2010)

Don'y you have Freesat over there?

We have a Panasonic full HD tv with Freeview and Freesat built in as well as analogue which I bought about 18 months ago. Theanalogue channels will be extinct before too long but the other two are up to the minute.


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## dereko1969 (22 Dec 2010)

werner said:


> It was a gross incompetence by the Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan in delivering a system that is incompatible with Irelands nearest neighbour the UK.
> 
> Not unexpected I might based on their record in government


 
So obviously you didn't bother reading the posts above whereby it was pointed out that (due to our late adoption) by going with Mpeg4 we are future proofing our digital system? You're seriously suggesting we adopt now an old system just because people like the OP are too lazy to do some proper research?

I also notice the OP hasn't bothered coming back to defend the indefensible!


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## venice (20 Jan 2011)

I see that RTE Two are now broadcasting in 1080i full HD on free view. Must say the picture is amazing....


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## lightswitch (21 Jan 2011)

venice said:


> I see that RTE Two are now broadcasting in 1080i full HD on free view. Must say the picture is amazing....


 
Really,   what No. channel is that on?


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## venice (25 Jan 2011)

On my TV its on channel 2 and the non HD RTE 2 has moved to number 7.

Just press info on you remote and you will see 1080i HD on the top right of you screen


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