# Executor Causing Misery - Advice Please



## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

Hi Everyone,


I really need help with this and we’re all confused and hurt by the situation.


My grandmother died aged 99 c. 1 month ago. She didn’t leave much; about €2k all in (as far as we know) which covered the funeral and her house, which is decaying, tiny, no safety certs, crumbling lethal staircase, etc. The house is worth around €15k - €20k realistically, although it was valued at €30k. It won’t get that much. (I work in the industry, the location is very remote, the stairs isn’t up to code, there’s severe damp, no access for machinery, no bath, etc – it won’t get €30k)


My Mum and her 2 sisters are here leftover, my Mum is the youngest (64). Her next sister up (67) stayed single, has her own house, etc. The eldest (72) is divorced, extremely controlling (always has been), nasty and treats my Mum as a child. She’s always been a pain in the backside. Always asking for help, for my Dad to do jobs on her house, etc, but gives nothing back, ever. Any time they meet she insists on sitting in the front seat, moving my mother to the back of the car (honestly), she has to pick where they eat (rubbish places). She’s so controlling that she’ll even pick bad ideas, just so that it’s her feeling in charge.


So when it came to my Granny’s death, my parents arranged the whole funeral, my Dad paid and hasn’t yet been reimbursed and he probably won’t ask for it from the estate. During my Granny’s final days/hours, my controlling Aunt announced in the nursing home at least three times that she was the executor. The middle sister was ALWAYS said to be in charge of all for as long as I can remember, so we all got a shock. My grandmother had dementia the last 10 years. Now, it surfaced that she gave this Aunt her wedding ring as a gift in the nursing home, she handed it to her on the QT. This was the first thing that the other 2 ladies weren’t a bit happy about. She wears the ring now.


So the first thing that came up in my head was the idea that since Granny’s onset dementia, the arrangements seem to have changed drastically. My controlling Aunt is refusing to let anyone else see the will, she won’t allow it. We all went to visit her house to reminisce after her funeral, she stood there in the middle of the kitchen, lips pursed with the key firmly in her hand, looking annoyed. She was visibly annoyed with anyone being there and wouldn’t leave anyone in any room alone.


We don’t want her as the executor as she never contributed to Granny’s care. Not just money, she actually drove Granny mad, always did, picking on her and winding her up. My middle aunt cared for her, my parents helped too and my Dad, with his money.


I don’t trust her. I think that the will was changed when Granny had already descended into madness (didn’t remember people’s names/faces some days). I also have to question why she refuses to show the will. I understand that she’s not obliged to, but the common sense of family asks why someone would refuse to show their siblings. It’s either being controlling for the sake of it or there’s something she’s hiding. She may have forged the will, I wouldn’t be surprised if she did. I think she’ll sell the house that we want to see stay in the family, since it’s worth so little. I would pay for it, a sensible amount if I have to, but I don’t trust her not to just sell it without telling anyone, just BECAUSE someone in the family would want it. It’s decaying and needs preservation work, she won’t allow. (My wife is a conservation architect, we would do the work for free, but she won’t ALLOW it.)


Please advise as to any advice on how to deal with this? Can we challenge the executor as not being appropriate? Granny not of sound mind? What options to we have to remove this executor?


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

I should also add; Executor says that my mother hasn't gotten anything from the will, fine. But my next aunt, we don't know what she's gotten.


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## elcato (13 Feb 2018)

Is the solicitor dealing with the case a family friend ? Could you approach and ask for clarification that the will states that the eldest is the executor ? Also can you remember who was the solicitor for your mother's original will - maybe approach them about it.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

elcato said:


> Is the solicitor dealing with the case a family friend ? Could you approach and ask for clarification that the will states that the eldest is the executor ? Also can you remember who was the solicitor for your mother's original will - maybe approach them about it.



I'd have to ask who the solicitor is, this is a minefield with my middle aunt. She's the kind of person who keeps everyone at 2 arms length - frowns and looks annoyed if she's asked anything, won't talk, won't object to anything. She cries whenever Granny is mentioned and the whole topic shuts down. It's really irritating. We all have to shut up *no matter what *cos she'll cry. Seems like controlling behaviour in itself.

There's a pecking order, as I said, the consider anyone else not entitled to get involved even though we're the only grandchildren, she lived with us for years even, we were very close, the older aunt is the one who tries to put everyone in their place.


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## elcato (13 Feb 2018)

Given that we are talking only about 30k (divided by 3) here, you need to make a decision of whether the stress (to your mother and her other sister) is really worth it. I would, however, tell your father to send the funeral bill to the solicitor dealing with the estate.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

The house has sentimental value. €30K is the AMV, the official valuation given by the estate agent. I'm a surveyor myself, I know that €30k isn't possible as the house isn't up to code, the stairs are like a ladder, it needs extensive works and preventative measures to not fall to pieces, basically. There's mold in the walls of an extended room - this room needs to be demolished to stop the mold ingress. The *max *it'd get on a good day with a motivated cash buyer is €20k, even that's a stretch. If it were a client, we (architect wife and I ) wouldn't advise anything over €15k.

That said, if it was going to go anywhere, I'd want us to take it. We'd be willing to do the works ourselves. We know how. The stress is not knowing if she'll just sell the site without telling or letting anyone else have a crack at the whip.

We want the house to stay in the family, I'd be heartbroken if it was sold.


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## Deiseblue (13 Feb 2018)

Your domineering Aunt may not have engaged a solicitor to deal with the Estate.
Your father who should on no account be out of pocket for such a large amount such as funeral expenses should forward the receipted account to this Aunt pointing out that such expenses are correctly chargeable to the Estate & this he should be refunded.
This should prompt your Aunt to take some action regarding the property as there would appear to insufficient monies in the Estate to discharge funeral expenses.
I think you suspect that if you don’t take affirmative action along these lines that your Aunt will simply string ye all along


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## RETIRED2017 (13 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> The house has sentimental value. €30K is the AMV, the official valuation given by the estate agent. I'm a surveyor myself, I know that €30k isn't possible as the house isn't up to code, the stairs are like a ladder, it needs extensive works and preventative measures to not fall to pieces, basically. There's mold in the walls of an extended room - this room needs to be demolished to stop the mold ingress. The *max *it'd get on a good day with a motivated cash buyer is €20k, even that's a stretch. If it were a client, we (architect wife and I ) wouldn't advise anything over €15k.
> 
> That said, if it was going to go anywhere, I'd want us to take it. We'd be willing to do the works ourselves. We know how. The stress is not knowing if she'll just sell the site without telling or letting anyone else have a crack at the whip.
> 
> We want the house to stay in the family, I'd be heartbroken if it was sold.



Well A suspect it will go for what someone is prepared to pay for it ,I am sure your aunt will not charge them extra for the mold or the stairs,

Nice to see she lived to 99 looks good for the rest ,


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

She's 72 and won't do anything with it. It's in Roscommon, she doesn't drive anymore, she won't go to there. It's the fact that we need to do work this summer to get the prevention done. Then it needs time to dry. 

I think she should just hand it over, she doesn't need money. Her ex husband left her their big house, she's sorted. I'm worried she'll just sit on it and let it decay, just to be in charge.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

There's no estate other than the house. The €3k was the total cost of the funeral. My Dad won't ask for that money, he's well off and likely would see it as his contribution to my Granny. He loved her like his own Mum, he'd have done anything for her. He bought her new windows 10 years ago like. It's not that money. Besides, if she's given a bill for €3k, she might feel compelled to sell the house to cover that cost. 

To be honest I'm concerned she'll just flog the house or deny a chance to get at it. It'd cost a potential buyer €10k - €15k at a glance to do all works, it needs a bathroom added too, that's not part of the €15k. My missus needs to survey it, but she won't allow access for that. She assumes we're all out to get her.

Example of the controlling; she came with a picture in a frame for the removal and funeral of my Granny. The picture was AWFUL, Granny was clearly distressed in the photo, she looked like she was on the cusp of tears. We have hundreds of photos of her laughing and smiling as she nearly always was. Would she use those pictures? No. She wanted to use the one SHE picked. Even though everyone said how bad it was.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Well A suspect it will go for what someone is prepared to pay for it ,I am sure your aunt will not charge them extra for the mold or the stairs,



Should I assume you mean that she'd take the very poor condition into account and price lower accordingly? Sorry, your comment is unclear.


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## elcato (13 Feb 2018)

Has your mother made a formal will ? Who is dealing with the legal side ?


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## RETIRED2017 (13 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> She's 72 and won't do anything with it. It's in Roscommon, she doesn't drive anymore, she won't go to there. It's the fact that we need to do work this summer to get the prevention done. Then it needs time to dry.
> 
> I think she should just hand it over, she doesn't need money. Her ex husband left her their big house, she's sorted. I'm worried she'll just sit on it and let it decay, just to be in charge.



I suspect if you want it and it was not left to you you will have to pay for it ,The woman is only a month in her grave,

I suspect running down something and expecting to get it for nothing is not how it works down in remote Roscommon

My advice you need to change track fast if you don't  she will make sure you don't finish up with it if she can and it will be nothing to do with money,

I am not trying to be unfair to you find out who it is left to let them know you would like last refusal if it is being sold  don't run it down,

That way you may get first refusal,


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

elcato said:


> Has your mother made a formal will ? Who is dealing with the legal side ?



My Grandmother, you mean? We don't know, the controlling aunt said she's the executor, and won't let anyone else see the will other than to tell everyone they aren't entitled to anything. I don't trust her. My other aunt was always said to be the executor. Granny had dementia the last 10 years, now all of a sudden my other controlling aunt is? I smell a rat.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> I suspect if you want it and it was not left to you you will have to pay for it ,The woman is only a month in her grave,
> 
> I suspect running down something and expecting to get it for nothing is not how it works down in remote Roscommon
> 
> My advice you need to change track fast if you don't  she will make sure you don't finish up with it if she can and it will be nothing to do with money,



We haven't spoken at all, we haven't said a word. As said, executor refuses to speak to anyone, I haven't asked her a single question, regarding or not regarding. I haven't said a word to her in the last month. We're not arguing about it, I'm silently on the sidelines, MY mother is telling me about it all. Exec doesn't know I'd like to fix the house, or that there's any interest in it at all.

We ALL live in Dublin now. All three girls moved to Dublin 40 years ago, 2 of which don't want the house.

*The woman is only a month in her grave,

I suspect running down something and expecting to get it for nothing is not how it works down in remote Roscommon
*
Your tone here insinuates that you're reprimanding me slightly, I've asked for advice. The comment about a month in the grave is neither here nor there, house is uninhabited the last 5 years. Be mindful of your tone.


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## elcato (13 Feb 2018)

Sorry I meant your grandmother. Sounds like you need legal advice. Can your mother recall whether their family had a legal advisor for issues in the last while ? I honestly have no idea what happens in such a case and how to contest anything without knowing the fact of a will existing. But as its only a month as said earlier you may need to step back and give it time here.


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## RETIRED2017 (13 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> We haven't spoken at all, we haven't said a word. As said, executor refuses to speak to anyone, I haven't asked her a single question, regarding or not regarding. I haven't said a word to her in the last month. We're not arguing about it, I'm silently on the sidelines, MY mother is telling me about it all. Exec doesn't know I'd like to fix the house, or that there's any interest in it at all.
> 
> We ALL live in Dublin now. All three girls moved to Dublin 40 years ago, 2 of which don't want the house.
> 
> ...





vincentgav said:


> We haven't spoken at all, we haven't said a word. As said, executor refuses to speak to anyone, I haven't asked her a single question, regarding or not regarding. I haven't said a word to her in the last month. We're not arguing about it, I'm silently on the sidelines, MY mother is telling me about it all. Exec doesn't know I'd like to fix the house, or that there's any interest in it at all.
> 
> We ALL live in Dublin now. All three girls moved to Dublin 40 years ago, 2 of which don't want the house.
> 
> ...


Sorry if you took it up that way  It is advice I am giving you Things may be a lot more raw with your aunt it was her mother that died ,It is quite possible she will be happy to see you finish up with it given time but I would not be running down your aunt or the house at the moment,

Letting it be known if it is to be sold you are interested may not be a bad idea,

Is your mother one of the 2 who don't want the house ,Are you saying your aunt was  interesting in the house if so her mother may have left it to her seeing she was the only one interested in it,

In the country the eldest are often left the house more so if the showed an Interest in owing it,


That is the advice I would give to my best friend if I was asked for advice,


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

We're concerned about the secretive nature. As I said, we don't even know if there is a will in place or a solicitor. My controlling aunt says there is, where do we go from there? What if we say we don't believe her?


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Sorry if you took it up that way  It is advice I am giving you Things may be a lot more raw with your aunt it was her mother that died ,It is quite possible she will be happy to see you finish up with it given time but I would not be running down your aunt or the house at the moment,
> 
> Letting it be known if it is to be sold you are interested may not be a bad idea,
> 
> ...



That's ok, it's written, not verbal, things can be skewed. I appreciate everyone even taking the time to read.

It's not that Granny didn't think anyone was interested, it's more a case of my controlling aunt wanting to take charge of the situation herself.

She claims there's a will, claiming nobody is to get anything but then she won't discuss any details. She was confronted by my mother last week, demanding to know why she refuses to answer questions at all. She said that there was an 'issue with the deeds' or an 'issue with the will'.

That's the latest info.

Now we don't even know if there is a will, *everything *was to go to my other aunt who is nice and reasonable. We're thinking that there was no written will.

Is there a way to find out if there was one? If there was no will in writing, could I just claim; 'Yes, I'm the executor, Granny told me that I was.' and plough along?


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## RETIRED2017 (13 Feb 2018)

Out of interest do you know did your mothers  father make a will ,


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Out of interest do you know did your mothers  father make a will ,



I don't know, he died in 1966 - no idea. I think that the house was bought for cash.


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## vincentgav (13 Feb 2018)

Is it possible that an 'executor' lies and claims to be the executor?


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## Thirsty (13 Feb 2018)

Here's my tuppence worth:

1. Your Dad should send funeral bill to executor for refund from estate.  
Yes I understand he's a decent person and doesn't mind at all paying for the funeral - that's not the point - if he doesn't want the money he can donate it to Cancer research.  The point is to focus the executor that there are bills to be settled.

2. Your Mum should lodge a caveat with the Probate Office.

3. You should create alerts with online websites / local agent so that you know if the property is put up for sale.

4. Everyone should then forget about the whole thing for the next 12 months.

5. If after one year there is no sign of the funeral bill being settled or any progress with probate, application can be made to remove the executor.


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## LS400 (13 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> I think that the will was changed when Granny had already descended into madness



Not the nicest thing to say about anyone suffering with this illness, sort of leaves a sour taste.     



vincentgav said:


> €30K is the AMV, the official valuation given by the estate agent.



Yet you dispute this official valuation,



vincentgav said:


> I'd want us to take it



I get that,



vincentgav said:


> I think she should just hand it over, she doesn't need money.



Come on now..



vincentgav said:


> Her ex husband left her their big house, she's sorted.



And... Think what you saying



vincentgav said:


> The €3k was the total cost of the funeral.



So apart from the €2k left in her account, there will be €1k outstanding, €350 each



vincentgav said:


> I haven't asked her a single question, regarding or not regarding. I haven't said a word to her in the last month.



Well you need to start there.

You know the agent now, who will be selling the property if its going on the market, talk to him.

You wanted advise, Im not here to rub you back etc, but you've written you opening post with steam coming out of your ears. So, My advise is to calm it down. You will achieve more with a cool head.


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## llgon (13 Feb 2018)

Your elder aunt is claiming, without showing any evidence, to be the executor. From your posts, I gather that NOBODY else can confirm this. As far as everyone was concerned your other aunt was going to be executor.  

I think that establishing for sure who is the executor should be your starting point. If neither of your aunts assist with this I would ask a solicitor for help.


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## huskerdu (13 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> Is it possible that an 'executor' lies and claims to be the executor?


 No.
It is legally not possible to sell a house without legal authority. No-one can claim to be the executor without a valid will which states that they are. 
If there is no will, adminitrator is appointed. Here is some basic information which should be useful. 

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...estate/dealing_with_the_deceaseds_estate.html


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## vincentgav (14 Feb 2018)

_↑_
_I think that the will was changed when Granny had already descended into madness
Not the nicest thing to say about anyone suffering with this illness, sort of leaves a sour taste. _

Granted, apologies, I just needed to express how well and truly she was in no state to decide anything.. Not least to give her wedding ring to the daughter who wrecked her head for decades.


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## Grizzly (14 Feb 2018)

llgon said:


> I think that establishing for sure who is the executor should be your starting point.


vincentgav. You need to clear your mind of everything else and find out who the executor is.


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## Deiseblue (14 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> That's ok, it's written, not verbal, things can be skewed. I appreciate everyone even taking the time to read.
> 
> It's not that Granny didn't think anyone was interested, it's more a case of my controlling aunt wanting to take charge of the situation herself.
> 
> ...


 
Working on the basis that “ there is an issue with the Will “ I would suggest that you write to your Aunt suggesting that an intestacy possibly arises in that event & that you intend writing to the Probate Registrar in order to have the Estate distributed under the Succession Act 1965 also pointing out that it may be necessary to appoint a Solicitor in this regard.
As pointed out to you earlier seeking a refund of the funeral expenses should generate some action by your Aunt - you really are going to be a lot firmer in your chosen course of action if you want to progress matters otherwise the suggestions made to you on this thread are all for naught.


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## vincentgav (14 Feb 2018)

I haven't stopped logging in guys, I'm reading and relaying this info as it comes, thank you all so much.


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## delfio (14 Feb 2018)

There could be another side to this story.

Just saying...


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## Thirsty (14 Feb 2018)

Indeed.

However the advice in my post holds good even if the executor is a saint.

Once the requisite saintliness has been established, the caveat can be lifted, and all will proceed normally.


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## vincentgav (15 Feb 2018)

Indeed, I dunno what's going through her head. If she'd only co-operate and tell her sisters what's in the actual will, or if there's something about money, say so, so we can sort that. Money isn't an issue, it's a tiny one bed house. I'm concerned she might want to sell it just to keep it away from people.

I know she was very bitter after her divorce, she had a daughter die, years ago, leukaemia. Wasn't the same since. She also has a son in America, he won't stay with her when she comes home, stays with my sister cos she picks fights with him re: guilt, etc whenever he's home. He's 42.

You wouldn't know what she's thinking.. If she'd onloy try to engage normally rather than taking a stance of; 'Right, now I've got this and I'm not going to do what anyone says'. Normal chats about where to eat etc to her are all arguments. You can't recommend anywhere, she'll disagree. I honestly tend to recommend places I don't want, cos she'll disagree guaranteed. I recommend a bad place, she picks other places so I agree. Tried takling her out for her birthday couple years ago, nice restaurant, she had none of it, we wanted to pay, just to be nice, ended up in the local hole for a This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language carvery. Had a nice idea in mind but we all had to go there cos she kicked up. Still paid for it all.. Just arguing for the hell of it.

It's genuinely sad, I can't imagine being so 'at war' all the time.


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## vincentgav (15 Feb 2018)

delfio said:


> There could be another side to this story.
> 
> Just saying...



Why should I lie to strangers and get incorrect advice? All I've put here is true unless there is, as I mention above, something she's not saying.


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## Thirsty (15 Feb 2018)

I'd advise you to edit your post and remove any personal information that's not relevant to your question - Ireland is a very small place.


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## RETIRED2017 (15 Feb 2018)

Thirsty said:


> I'd advise you to edit your post and remove any personal information that's not relevant to your question - Ireland is a very small place.


Even more so  Roscommon


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## vincentgav (15 Feb 2018)

All info has been padded already lads, every detail, I know what ye are saying. County, ages, etc.


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## vincentgav (15 Feb 2018)

Yeah, we do need to make it known. Her son isn't coming back, he has a family there, been there for 25 or so years.

Thanks.


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## vincentgav (15 Feb 2018)

Thank you all for the answers, we've a lot to think about now.


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## RETIRED2017 (15 Feb 2018)

vincentgav said:


> Thank you all for the answers, we've a lot to think about now.


Take advice from post 26 and 29  as you can see she cannot sell it if it is not left to her.I would be taking your aunt at her word until you find out otherwise,go along with asking her to give you last refusal if selling that way there will be no hard feelings It is possible she left it to the oldest in the family the older generation done so in the past,she may have given her the ring for the same reason,


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## noproblem (15 Feb 2018)

IF THE PLACE WAS LEFT TO HER IN A WILL SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO TELL ANY OF YOU ANYTHING, NEITHER DOES THE SOLICITOR. FORGIVE MY LARGE PRINT, I'M NOT SHOUTING. SEND THE BILL FOR THE FUNERAL AND THAT'LL GIVE HER A BOUNCE. OR MAYBE IT WON'T.


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## llgon (15 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> I would be taking your aunt at her word until you find out otherwise,



Which could be a very long time.....




noproblem said:


> SEND THE BILL FOR THE FUNERAL AND THAT'LL GIVE HER A BOUNCE. OR MAYBE IT WON'T.



I'd put my money on the latter.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Feb 2018)

Anything which can be said, has been said.

It's up to the OP whether they want to act on the suggestions or not.

Brendan


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