# Boss stealing from company: I'm afraid to be the whistle blower, what to do?



## billysharp (8 Sep 2007)

Hi,
I have found out a major problem in work that i dont know what i should do.

I have found that my boss has been doctoring reciepts i.e. if it cost €50 he's putting a €150 or €250 on the reciept and has ALOt of these reciepts handed in to head office
He has also bought vast qualtities of items via the company and is using them for his own personel use i.e they were never intended for use here
I think its well into the thusands that he has taken from the company so far, but wouldnt be surprised if it was into the tens of thousands
I'm not sure what to do? Should i tell someone in higher management whats going on. Or should i say nothing and hope he gets too greedy and gets caught? 
I am afraid to what he might do to me if i do tell higher management and also what they might think of me, i.e a rat or whatever.
At the minute i'm pretending nothing is happening but i'd like advice on what i should do or if anyone had experience in this and what was the outcome


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## 26cb (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

Is it possible to inform management anonymously or are you in a small organisation ?  You need to be very certain of your facts and the need to be undeniable.


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## billysharp (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

I'm in a small team within a big organisation. He'd be able to pin point it within days if it was a tip off. Hence my worry about what he could do between finding out and i persume getting fired, he could do anything.

The things he bought on the company accounts are easier prove but the reciepts would be alot harder, but if the comapny are holding onto the copies that he faxed down for expenses then it'd be easy to prove, just go to suppliers and ask for xyz reciepts, they wont match and it shoudl be proof?


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## GeneralZod (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

If the abuse is as clear cut as you suggest it is and there's good evidence it sounds like an open an shut case.

You will be seen as a whistle blower not a rat.

Your boss is stealing and will get fired and hopefully prosecuted.

Unfortunately this is a common enough occurrence. It's happened a couple of times where I worked (big company) and nobody mourns the departure of the culprit. It makes for great canteen talk.

What happens to you if they find out you knew and didn't report it? Right now you're standing in the firing line.


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## billysharp (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

Yeah, i was wondering about knowing and not telling too, which is suggesting that the best thing is to say it to higher management. Thing is i always tought it was going on, but when i saw the proof which was only two weeks ago, its only then i'm starting looking for advice.


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## SarahMc (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

I'm not sure what happened to this particular piece of [broken link removed]  the right thing to do of course is to whistle blow, but be sure of your own rights also.


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## Cashstrapped (8 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*



billysharp said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I have found that my boss has been doctoring reciepts i.e. if it cost €50 he's putting a €150 or €250 on the reciept and has ALOt of these reciepts handed in to head office
> ...



Firstly how did you find this out, is it part of your job to check/ sign off on his expenses?

Are you sure these purchases are not for his 'home office', we have alot of that gal going on in our place when you query stuff?

He is already got to the greedy stage if you believe he possibly has taken tens of thousands, which means someone is not doing their job properly or choosing to ignore it for a reason...

Think long and hard before you do anything, if signing off these expenses is part of your job then I believe you need to flag you concerns to prove you are carrying out you job.  Note them as a concern not an allegation but you will need to have facts not just suspicions.  If you have facts they need to be by way of you carrying out your own job ie. not by having these suspicions by something you noticed on someone elses desk.

I am speaking from a similar experience myself and in the end nothing was done about it, it was all hushed up but I found I was very much on trial when trying to prove my concerns which arose as part of my job and I would hesitate in voicing my concerns in the future.

Finally is their an Internal Audit Dept in your Company, if you can backup this then perhaps copy the documentation you have and send it anomously to them but if what you see is not part of your job to notice and unless you think his actions are likely to threaten the jobs of the Company's Employees then I would steer clear of it and leave the onus back on whoever is signing off these costs to do their job right.


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## billysharp (9 Sep 2007)

*Re: What to do.....?*

No its not part of my job to sign off on his time sheets or documents. How i first got suspicious was i bouth an item for 120, but then when i saw it goign into the office for expenses (photo copited) it was changed to 420. So other things lying around the office i had a look at and they were all doctored. The stuff he is buying is unique specialised items, they cant be used here in work so there's no other place that they can be used only for his own use. 
I dont know why there's not an audit or why somoeone in accounts arent doing their job. I also send in reciepts but i send in the originals every 2 months, my boss doesnt do this so i dont know why they dont come after him. 
This isnt something im going to do on Monday morning, but i just want to do the right thing for everyone involved


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## miselemeas (9 Sep 2007)

*Re: Stealing from Company*

You can either 
(a) report it to management, making sure you have conclusive evidence
or 
(b) pass the buck to the Accounts Dept by leaving one of the original 'doctored' documents on the desk of the person whose responsibility it is to pass the expenses for payment.


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## Bob the slob (10 Sep 2007)

*Re: Boss Stealing from Company: Im afraid to be the whistle blower, what to do?*

I would go and confide in someone you can trust.  Maybe in HR or something.  Explain what has happened and tell them you are confiding in them and you expect this to be confidential.  They will respect your honesty I think.


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## Guest112 (10 Sep 2007)

*Re: Boss Stealing from Company: Im afraid to be the whistle blower, what to do?*

Hi

I once worked in a place ( a long time ago) where there was an agreement between management and this one guy to pay him an additional 1000 per month tax free.

The agreement was that the employee would "doctor" his receipts once a month to the value of 1000.

You should consider that this might be the arrangement here also. The management may be aware of the "system" in place.

I dont want to comment on the rights or wrongs of this just to give an other possible explanation.

This might also explain why he doesnt send in original receipts and why no one in accounts is querying it.


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## Bazoo (10 Sep 2007)

*Re: Boss Stealing from Company: Im afraid to be the whistle blower, what to do?*



APHRODITE said:


> Hi
> 
> I once worked in a place ( a long time ago) where there was an agreement between management and this one guy to pay him an additional 1000 per month tax free.
> 
> ...


 
This is something that occured to me also as soon as I read the original post. I find it very odd that something which cost €120 can be passed off as having cost €420 and that it wouldn't be queried at some level. My other half's expenses (also in a large organisation) are thoroughly checked before being paid out. He was was phoned by someone one time in accounts to ask if he was 'entertaining' because he'd had two beers from the mini-bar instead of just one when away on business


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## triplex (10 Sep 2007)

you could mention it to your internal auditors...off the record.. they could take it from there as a routine internal audit..


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Sep 2007)

When you say he is your boss, how senior is he in the company? Is he the head guy in Ireland? 

If he is not the head guy, is every manager at this by agreement? 

Is there an internal audit function? Is it based in Ireland? Do they visit at all? They might not visit your site if it's a large company.

Do you have an external audit from KPMG, PwC or a firm like that? 

I don't suppose that there are any non-executive directors? 

What is your current standing in the company? Do they value you or do they want to get rid of you? Do you have a review process in place? I would seek to have a review done if you expect a positive review and get it in writing. This would be necessary just in case there was any comeback on you. If you get a postive review and subsequently report a fraud, they will find it very difficult to victimise you. 

They will not be able to keep you and your boss in the same place. Can they realistically move you to another job? Can they move him? 

If they treat you unfairly, you would succeed in any claim for constructive dismissal. 

There is a very good radio programme on RTE 1 on Sunday Mornings called Whistle Blowers. It's quite depressing because in the two cases I have heard so far, the whistle blower came off worse. Last week it was the guy whose research showed that women in the Irish army were being bullied. The establishment moved against him and it took a High Court case for him to get damages for defamation. He never got an apology. 

Another one was the priest in Maynooth who reported that the guy in charge of students was abusing them. He got transferred to a curate's job somewhere and was only exonerated many years later. 

Brendan


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## Abbeykiller (11 Sep 2007)

Agree with the above - don't automatically assume that this will be punished once reported. There is no supreme justice in operation in most companies just a series of individuals who will try to deal with a situation to the best of their ability or to their own end. This will as likely be hushing it up , a verbal warning or written warning as much as it could be instant dismissal.
If this guy is well respected/highly valued you will likely get his management backing him up to save his job. If your evidence is a few receipts in the space of a few weeks he can claim it is a recent thing/ desperate for cash short term/stress at home etc etc  
I have seen separate instances of sexual harrassment/ pilfering and overtime fraud go unpunished, therefore would be a reluctant whistleblower in this situation if it cannot be done anonymously. Perhaps, you could confide in someone else that doesn't work directly for him and let them do the whistleblowing ? Or spread the word around and let it become 'common knowledge' ....


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## Hasslehoff (11 Sep 2007)

First of all keep a record of all the transactions, a file of evidence if you like, take it out of the business and bring it home as an insurance policy. Make sure they are hard copies or good files.
Personally I would then ask your boss to explain why the differences appear , can he/she explain in an innocent fashion. I would imagine that it is your responsibility to make him aware or someone else in order not to viewed as complicit. I would like to hear his response, could be genuine who knows, could be testing you or he could be stealing
But if you feel that he then puts you under pressure or treats your differently after this you need to raise the bar with the company - look at it this way , you bring this to senior mgt or advise him that you are going to go to senior mgt and that you have the proof in the office your then what's known as bullet-proof. Don't tell them about your insurance file though in case your double crossed which can happen. How can they be negative towards you or ill treat you ,you would have them by the nuts and the evidence to boot , same thing happened to a friend of mine only for larger amounts. More or less went up to the top of the food chain overnight as a result.


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## Flax (11 Sep 2007)

Be careful.

There was a similar problem in a company I worked in. The receptionist and one of the accounts people were also doctoring receipts and buying stuff from amazon etc. for their own use.

Another girl in accounts told the MD. The MD did nothing. Both accounts people were shortly after made redundant. The receptionist still works there.

So be prepared for things to not work out the way you expect them to...


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## money man (12 Sep 2007)

Dont be afraid to do what you feel is the right thing to do. Keep adequate proof to back your allegations up if you feel it is your duty to your employer to inform them that there are certain irregularities in some receipts you discovered. Let them deal with it in their own way. If you are punished for doing the right thing then you will have a very strong case against them. If they know already and are trying to catch him or gain enough proof then they will think highly of you for doing the right thing. 
If they turn against you it then its not the type of place/people where/who you really should be working for.


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## mbridge (15 Sep 2007)

do what you feel is morally right he must be a scum bag remember this effects everybody in the company


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## money man (17 Sep 2007)

Any update billysharp? You must have come to a decision on such a serious matter by now? Good luck if you are in the middle of taking action.


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## billysharp (17 Sep 2007)

Hi all,
Sorry I didn’t add in a few more replies up to now,  I don’t have much access to 'other' websites bar work ones.

Thanks for all the advice and I also spoke to an accountant who explained to me how an audit in the company might not pick something like this up without being told to specifically look for it. I'm no where near the accounts dept so don’t even know if they get audited. 
Anyway, main point. Did I do anything? No. I would so like to point it out to management but it’s the fear of what'll happen to me after it comes to light.
They could do nothing and my boss will make my life a living hell?
They could get rid of boss, get new lad in and say watch yourself there, there's a whistleblower there, and that would make this place unbearable.
They could move me to another location, which is possible and one of the posters pointed out (I have other commitments that means I need to stay closer to where I am).
the only time I thought of it was anonymously and pass on the few bits of evidence i have but again we work in a small team and i wouldn’t like any of my co workers to be put under scrutiny at my expense.

Anyway, its always in the back of my mind, maybe if it notice it going on and on i might just say hold on a minute and enough is enough, but unfortunately I will go against my morals and say nothing. Hopefully he will get too greedy and he will be caught on his own steam, but for now I’ll just sit and wait.
I promise i'll let ye know of anything that happens.


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## Cashstrapped (17 Sep 2007)

Hi Billysharp, for what its worth I think you have made the right decision.  At the end of the day you have to do whats right for you as only you will have to live with the consequences.


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## money man (18 Sep 2007)

Cashstrapped i think thats pretty inaccurate advice...this situation potentially affects numerous people.  I think its a great pity that billy has chosen not to bother to do anything. It is his choice and im sure he has spent a great deal of time thinking it over though. All it takes for evil to prevail if for good men to do nothing. 

I hope it doesnt come back to bite some day. I think always do the right thing and what is supposed to be will be. Billy could be missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime here to show his loyalty to the company and dedication to  his job...honesty/integrity etc... Maybe cashstrapped is right in one way...Billy will have to live with his decision/consequences of doing nothing also..he will be looking over his shoulder forever...what if his boss thinks billy knows and decides to frame him someway ...they both claim expences work in the same office etc....he may be able to get rid of him other ways...make his life difficult? even though he hasnt done anything...what will his defence be ...no its really my boss who is stealing...ive known for ages ...look at the proof??what will his employers think of him then? that he was in on it?that he did nothing?etc....I would value a clear conscience higher than that.anyway thats just something more to mull over...


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## Cashstrapped (18 Sep 2007)

money man said:


> Cashstrapped i think thats pretty inaccurate advice...this situation potentially affects numerous people.  I think its a great pity that billy has chosen not to bother to do anything. It is his choice and im sure he has spent a great deal of time thinking it over though. All it takes for evil to prevail if for good men to do nothing.




Moneyman the reply I gave to Billy was speaking from personal experience.  I have in confidence gone to my senior Manager regarding something similar which was part of my job, he followed it up alright, with the person who I had brought the evidence against.  How do I know you might ask, mainly becauses this person came to me in our open plan office, spoke quiet loudly and asked if I ever had a problem with his expenses in the future could I bring it to his attention before anyone else as there may be a valid reason for certain purchases.  It turned out this was an agreement between two Senior Managers within the Company that was a 'perk' he could purchase things like family holidays and put them through as a business expense.  Would I flag it again, hell no, I now have a Senior colleague who doesn't speak to me only grunts, I have a boss who feels I'm responsible for flagging something with him which now puts him in a position of knowing something he'd rather not know.

I think Billy may have covered himself off by bringing it to the attention of a Company Accountant, I think it's more about what he does now he has noticed.  Going forward I would suggest any purchases that Billy makes like the example he used, he take copies of for his own records.  Again I would say if it's not part of Billy's job to steer clear, you don't know what agreements are in place and if he is that greedy he will eventually get caught.  The way I see it he's damned if he doesn't and he's damned if he does so it's the lesser of two evils.


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## buzybee (19 Sep 2007)

Billysharp,

If you want, you could ring up the company in question (where the inaccurate expenses were for) and ask to get a statement of account.  This would list out all the invoices outstanding and the correct amounts.  Then you could go to accounts payable & leave this on their desk (make sure no one notices you doing this.  When accounts payable are doing their reconciliations they would notice that the invoices are not correct.

However, if the company pays these invoices as they become due, then the statement would not show anything.  In this case you would need to ring accounts from the company in question and ask for a 'transaction history' for the last 3 or 4 months.  You could give accounts Mr/Ms X & they could post it in.  This would provide info to accounts payable and it would be up to them to highlight it.

Then at least you would feel you are doing something but you are not being caught in the crossfire, as this could be a case of 'shoot the messenger'.

Good Luck


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## TheBlock (19 Sep 2007)

buzybee said:


> Billysharp,
> 
> If you want, you could ring up the company in question (where the inaccurate expenses were for) and ask to get a statement of account. This would list out all the invoices outstanding and the correct amounts. Then you could go to accounts payable & leave this on their desk (make sure no one notices you doing this. When accounts payable are doing their reconciliations they would notice that the invoices are not correct.
> 
> ...


 
Are these not expenses claimed and therefore will not show on any staement of account? The invoices are not paid directly by the company but are expensed by the employee in question hence the "doctoring".

BB Do you work as an accountant?


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## buzybee (19 Sep 2007)

Thought the dishonest employee was ordering goods for his/her own use & charging it to the company.


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## billysharp (19 Sep 2007)

He is doing both:
·    Ordering goods and then when they arrive they end up in his car before they end up in the store room. They arrived posted for his attention
·    Doctoring receipts, was thinking of asking the company that he doctors the receipts for a couple of months statements, cos sometimes he puts in same receipt in twice and deletes the ID number on the receipt page. The receipt are all hand written ones he gets from companies
And as moneyman says, clear conscience, the option I picked isn’t what I want, its not usually like me not to do something like this. My friends outside work usually ask me for advice on various things and I usually give it honestly and as straight as i can (even if its not what they want to hear) so being quiet on this is not usual for me, I don’t like myself for doing it, but right now I cannot deal with the **** that could come at me if I whistle blow.


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## The Pool Boy (20 Sep 2007)

Could you perhaps anonymously advise the company auditors that something may be amiss. Explain your suspicions and ask that they look at it during the audit. 
That way if they come in to check and find something it will look like they are the ones who caught him out and not you.


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## TheBlock (20 Sep 2007)

The Pool Boy said:


> Could you perhaps anonymously advise the company auditors that something may be amiss. Explain your suspicions and ask that they look at it during the audit.
> That way if they come in to check and find something it will look like they are the ones who caught him out and not you.


 
That's the way I'd go. Just piont the auditor in the direction and let him pose the questions.


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## billysharp (16 Jan 2008)

Hi everyone,
A bit of good news anyway. There is a god!
My boss didn’t turn up for work on Monday and our head boss old us on Tuesday that he wont be back due to disciplinary reasons. Thank do for that and we didn’t have to report him, which i felt under pressure to do. He must have got too greedy or made a big mistake. It puts my faith back into accountants anyway! Hope it was this he got fired for, but at least we don’t have a thief in our team any more. Thanks for the replies


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## ClubMan (16 Jan 2008)

Wonder how much he got away with since the start of September 2007?


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## money man (16 Jan 2008)

I hope that the company hasnt suffered massive losses/damages to reputation etc. And that this thief doesnt cost some people their jobs due to the business/plant/office being badly run/unprofitable etc.


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## billysharp (16 Jan 2008)

I hope they go after the money off him. The start of september was when we noticed!! He could have been at it from the sept before. I agree, some of us got poor enough pay increases last year which he pocketed. The worst thing was we heard from another source that he got fired from a previous job (about 8 years ago) for doing the exact same thing!! Hr werent doing their job hiring him. We know that we are all prob being watched like mad now but we dont care, whats left are honest and have nothing to hide and the morale has picked up even though our workload increased.


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## Purple (16 Jan 2008)

billysharp said:


> I hope they go after the money off him. The start of september was when we noticed!! He could have been at it from the sept before. I agree, some of us got poor enough pay increases last year which he pocketed. The worst thing was we heard from another source that he got fired from a previous job (about 8 years ago) for doing the exact same thing!! Hr werent doing their job hiring him. We know that we are all prob being watched like mad now but we dont care, whats left are honest and have nothing to hide and the morale has picked up even though our workload increased.


Good news. He was stealing and should have been sacked.


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## dodo (16 Jan 2008)

You must do what is right in your view,I think it is your duty as a worker in the company who pay your wages to inform HR of this issue.If it is found out down the road that you knew all about the stealing and never said anything maybe they could be in their right to sack you. Alot of big companies when they find out staff are stealing from them actually do not call the police but rather let them leave so not to bring a bad image too the company,this I have seen throughout the years.It can be much most simple to give them a choice of either leave or we will call in the police,they usually just leave quitely.


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## ClubMan (16 Jan 2008)

Would the _Gardai _actually get involved in a workplace theft situation if it was not on a large scale or clearly fraud etc. or might they not consider it a civil matter and outside of their remit? Like if I let the burglar into my house willingly and then he stole my stuff?


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