# List of Tracker Related Ombudsman Decisions



## Dpdp01050842 (5 Mar 2019)

My idea for this thread is for people to post (leaving out specific details which would identify their case or the bank) any decision they have received.

In my case I’ve been going through the process for circa 2 years with no decision. As far as I am aware at this point the Ombudsman has made zero decisions on tracker related issues be they simple or complex.


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## RedOnion (5 Mar 2019)

Just search their database. All decisions are published.

https://www.fspo.ie/decisions/keyword.asp


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2019)

OK, so there appears to be 57 mentions of the word "tracker" in 4 cases. 

DPD - Would you summarise these? 

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (5 Mar 2019)

Yes but it’s not up to date. Zero for 2019. Ombudsman recently stated decisions would start early 2019 but I’ve not heard of any.


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## demoivre (5 Mar 2019)

Dpdp01050842 said:


> In my case I’ve been going through the process for circa 2 years with no decision. As far as I am aware at this point the Ombudsman has made zero decisions on tracker related issues be they simple or complex.



Tracker complaints are on hold at the moment.

*How will the FSPO handle my tracker complaint?*
We will log your complaint and put it on hold until the Central Bank Examination has been completed and we have all the information we need to deal with your complaint. We will tell your lender that your complaint is on hold.


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## SaySomething (5 Mar 2019)

Tracker complaints are no longer on hold. The Ombudsman has started to review tracker complaints according to this extensive report on RTÉ website. The quote from the Ombudsman is at the bottom of the report, dated beginning of February 2019.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0208/1028451-tracker-mortgage-will-goodbody/


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## Dpdp01050842 (6 Mar 2019)

SaySomething said:


> Tracker complaints are no longer on hold. The Ombudsman has started to review tracker complaints according to this extensive report on RTÉ website. The quote from the Ombudsman is at the bottom of the report, dated beginning of February 2019.
> 
> https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0208/1028451-tracker-mortgage-will-goodbody/



Yes that’s what I don’t get. No longer on hold but there doesn’t seem to be word of any decisions.

The website has no examples for 2019. When I search tracker I get results 53 and only 4 are available (only 3 relate to banking). Tracker is mentioned in the detail but none of the cases seem to be similar to the popular cohorts mentioned here.

“Mr Deering says there are huge differences between the cases and so each needs to be examined on its own, through a process of investigation, adjudication and final decision.

"I’m not ruling out mediation," he said. "But the vast majority will involve full investigation and that will involve us looking at the material, adjudicating and making a ruling."

As a result it will take some time to complete, he cautioned, although the first decisions will start coming early this year.”


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## RedOnion (6 Mar 2019)

Dpdp01050842 said:


> The website has no examples for 2019.


I was looking at this after my earlier comment. It looks like they were all published on 1 day, so I don't know if they will only be an annual update.



Dpdp01050842 said:


> When I search tracker I get results 53 and only 4 are available (only 3 relate to banking).


I thought it was just me! Seems to be an issue with their website in the keywords search option, as I seem to be able to get them using the other search.


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Mar 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I thought it was just me! Seems to be an issue with their website in the keywords search option, as I seem to be able to get them using the other search.



Is it not that the word "tracker" appears 53 times in 4 cases? 

Brendan


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## SaySomething (7 Mar 2019)

To the best of my knowledge, the Ombudsman publishes select decisions once a year around the time of the annual review. Since the website was revamped the pre-2016 decisions are harder to find. It might be easier to use the WaybackMachine?


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## RedOnion (7 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Is it not that the word "tracker" appears 53 times in 4 cases?


Ah, indeed.


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Mar 2019)

I got this statement from the FSPO's office just now. 

“The Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (FSPO) was establish on 1 January 2018 and given the power to publish his decisions. He published his 2018 decisions in January 2019. This did not include and tracker mortgage decisions as tracker complaints were on hold until late 2018 and therefore no tracker mortgage complaint decisions issued in 2018. A number of tracker complaints are under active investigation and adjudication at the moment (March 2019) and decisions have commenced to issue. The FSPO proposes to publish all decisions  (including tracker complaint decisions) issued between January and June 2019  in July 2019.

The predecessors of the FSPO, the Financial Services Ombudsman and the Pensions Ombudsman did not publish decisions as they did not have the legislative basis to do so.” 

So if you have found 4 tracker decisions they just included the word "tracker" but the substantive issue was the unfair loss of the tracker, the amount of compensation or the wrong rate. 

As the statement says, he has begun to issue the decisions.  If anyone has received any of these decisions, then they could publish them now. 

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (2 Apr 2019)

“The FSPO proposes to publish all decisions (including tracker complaint decisions) issued between January and June 2019 in July 2019.”

Yet there still has no been one person on here saying a decision was reached. Their own statement said the initial decisions would be made early this year. We’ve moved into Q2 now and nothing. I understand they have huge numbers to get through but at this rate it will be years. Mine is only with them about 18 months but that’s too long. I’m sure others are longer.


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## TrackerThieves (2 Apr 2019)

As far as I know how the process should work. The mediation process take about 12 weeks. If there is a resolution it will be confidential. If theres no resolution it moves on to the investigation phase and is a separate department, which can take about a year


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## TrackerThieves (2 Apr 2019)

I am guessing decisions published are only cases that have gone through the investigation/adjudication phases. So will be a while yet before tracker case decisions are published


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## Wonder (2 Apr 2019)

What I have been told by FPSO.
Examination is done by dates of when complaint was received by their office. 
Mine was January 2018,
Meditation with kbc December 2018 which was unsuccessful. 
Case inline to be investigated.


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## Thomas (2 Apr 2019)

Mine was Feb 2017 and still not finalised!!


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## TrackerThieves (2 Apr 2019)

Thomas said:


> Mine was Feb 2017 and still not finalised!!


Have you been though mediation/resolution and in the investigation phase?


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## Thomas (2 Apr 2019)

Yes - they had a token effort at mediation. Then over a year of exchange of submissions and by start of this year it was close to being adjudicated (was told it was taking so long as it was complicated).  The the fso published their 2018 decisions in January so I sent  in some more comments and once that exchange of views (!!) are finalised I have been told it will be adjudicated quickly thereafter I.e. within a couple of months


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## Dpdp01050842 (9 May 2019)

This has been discussed on an Ulster Bank thread but there is now conformation of a small number of Tracker Related Appeals to the Ombudsman. 10 Ulster Bank customers that appealed the level of compensation to the independent appeals panel only to be be rejected followed on with an Appeal to the Ombudsman. Of these ten, the Ombudsman sided with the customer on five occasions. A whopping 50% of Ombudsman appeals were upheld. I’ve long expected this was going to be the case with the appeals panel decisions and it’s great to hear decisions are now coming through. All these decisions will be published in July.

I don’t believe the banks will consider these decisions and look to apply them to customers who have not or have not yet appealed to the Ombudsman and people will all need to go through all the way to the FSPO. 

Of course we don’t know the details or the amounts awarded, but for me, it indicates that unfortunately it will often be the case that people will require further steps after the independent appeals panel.


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## Dpdp01050842 (1 Jun 2019)

It is now June 1st. Not one poster has said on this forum that the Ombudsman has made either a preliminary or a final decision.for or against.  

Mine, post final response, has been with the Ombudsman 2 years (since final response). This is a flipping joke.


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## Dpdp01050842 (31 Jul 2019)

Per their comment to you Brendan It is expected that there will be a publication today on H1 decisions. Hopefully it isn’t delayed and is released on time for the Sunday papers


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2019)

Hi Dpd



Dpdp01050842 said:


> Not one poster has said on this forum that the Ombudsman has made either a preliminary or a final decision.for or against.



I would expect that the Ombudsman will be publishing his decisions in the coming weeks.  However, I am not expect that there will be any significant tracker related decisions.   The whole process is very long and Thomas gives a good example 



Thomas said:


> Mine was Feb 2017 and still not finalised!!



When the bank responds to the Ombudsman, consider very carefully if you need to respond.  Typically what happens is the following. 

Iteration 1 - Borrower complains, Ombudsman summarises it and puts it to the bank  and the bank responds
Iteration 2 - Borrower responds, Ombudsman reviews and then submits to bank, and bank responds 
Iteration 3 - Borrower makes a response to the bank's second response,  Ombudsman reviews and then submits to bank,. The bank responds a third time. 

Each iteration has three steps. The Ombudsman gives each step one month to respond.  And often, the lender asks and is given an extension. So each iteration can take three months or more.

After all these iterations, the Ombudsman has to consider the huge file and make a preliminary decision. 
The sides have 30 days in which to respond to that preliminary decision.
The Ombudsman then makes their final decision. 

So I am not expecting that many, if any, decisions will be published in this round. 



Dpdp01050842 said:


> there is now conformation of a small number of Tracker Related Appeals to the Ombudsman. 10 Ulster Bank customers that appealed the level of compensation to the independent appeals panel only to be be rejected followed on with an Appeal to the Ombudsman. Of these ten, the Ombudsman sided with the customer on five occasions. A whopping 50% of Ombudsman appeals were upheld. I’ve long expected this was going to be the case with the appeals panel decisions and it’s great to hear decisions are now coming through. All these decisions will be published in July.



I found that astonishing.  Ulster Bank is behind all the other lenders in their dealings.  The Appeals Panel was late to be set up.  

I suspect that there might be some misunderstanding here.

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (31 Jul 2019)

That makes sense. It is a long process but my experience is that while cumbersome it’s thorough. 

The UB one was unusual so it could have been a misunderstanding. There have been no posters here mentioning UB decisions.


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## SaySomething (31 Jul 2019)

I'm not sure that it was a misunderstanding. The Finance Committee were very specific in querying UB on this when they appeared before them.

The UB panel was late to be set up but as I understand it there were a few customers who went to appeals straight away, and their appeals were adjudicated within 6 months. If that was the case then it's possible that they'd already proceeded through the FSPO system by early 2019.

The key wording from the quote that the FSPO made is _'The FSPO proposes to publish all decisions  (including tracker complaint decisions) issued between January and June 2019  in July 2019.' _Proposes...

Edited to add: The absence of posters mentioning decisions is not an indicator of the decisions not existing. For example, there are hundreds of UB customers in the appeals process with a tiny fraction of them posting here on UB. Financial awards/decisions/situations are highly personal and it's not a surprise to me that the vast majority of customers don't discuss them in public.


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2019)

I just checked the timeline on another case I have been told about. It's much worse than I thought. 

It took the lender almost three months to respond to the questions from the Ombudsman. The borrower responded within a week. And it took a further three months for the bank to issue its second response.   So 100 working days from the bank where it should have been 40. 

Brendan


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## SaySomething (31 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It took the lender almost three months to respond to the questions from the Ombudsman. The borrower responded within a week. And it took a further three months for the bank to issue its second response.   So 100 working days from the bank where it should have been 40.



This is similar to my previous experience with the Ombudsman. It's also similar to my experience with the Appeals process (still ongoing). It appears that the FSPO is powerless to compel the Bank to respond in a timely manner. I believe that the Ombudsman should be simply progressing to the next stage when the Bank take far too long and giving the benefit to the complainant. That would serve to soften the Banks' cough.


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## notabene (31 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I just checked the timeline on another case I have been told about. It's much worse than I thought.
> 
> It took the lender almost three months to respond to the questions from the Ombudsman. The borrower responded within a week. And it took a further three months for the bank to issue its second response.   So 100 working days from the bank where it should have been 40.
> 
> Brendan



Things may have changed since I went to the FSPO in 2012 but at that time it took 26 months from start to finish with the bank nearly always late back on their submissions. Before agreeing to mediation I asked a case worker in the office of a time frame if the bank didn't agree to go to mediation (and they didn't) and they estimated 5 months at the time but the reality was very different, with one period in particular where there was no update for six months.

Up until the most recent submission to the Ulster Bank's Upper Appeals panel, to be fair, things have run according to the proposed timeline which I had requested from them. Things have currently slowed but they can't tell me why that is the case. I would say I have done everything in my power (basically dropped all else to get it done) to turn submissions around within a few days at the most in order to speed the process up but each time the bank have taken the full of the time allotted to them & again have often exceeded this parameter. I agree too that there should be a penalty or it should be considered a non submission if the Bank aren't back on time - as I've said to various parties through the various stages, I'm not a professional, I've a full time job, no staff and the stresses and strains of normal life to contend with while making submissions - This is the Bank's job - it's not good enough on their part aside from blatent disrespect to the complainent and the process itself


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2019)

One of the problems faced by the banks  is the sheer volume of complaints and appeals. 

While you have a full time job nota bene, this is the only case you are progressing. You know it inside out. When UB responds to you, you can respond to them within a few days.

The Ombudsman faces the same issue.  They must be swamped with tracker cases and all the other cases as well.  

So I think we will just have to live with the fact that the Ombudsman process will take a year or so after mediation.   

The only way to speed it up is for the Ombudsman to say after the first exchange: "I have read the complaint and the response from the bank. I now understand the issue. While you may make further submissions, it will only slow down the process. So don't make a further submission unless you really think it's necessary." 

And I have seen a lot of complaints put together very badly. It would be hard for the Ombudsman to figure out what the borrower is arguing.  

Brendan


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## notabene (31 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> One of the problems faced by the banks  is the sheer volume of complaints and appeals.
> 
> While you have a full time job nota bene, this is the only case you are progressing. You know it inside out. When UB responds to you, you can respond to them within a few days.
> 
> ...



That's true Brendan but it has still taken up huge chunks of time and while I have sympathy on volume for the FSPO and can understand the delays and restrictions a bit more there - the banks are making plenty of money again - time for them to hire the staff to deal with it in an appropriate time frame

I would say two things though which maybe I should have said for balance above, the timeline provided by the appeals panel certainly did help with the wait up until the last submission - and to be fair to them, in my own case, they were able to stick to it - I think the uncertainty is a big element in the frustration of the process - again may not be possible for a large volume but I definitely found it useful in the spring. 

Secondly while I will be the first to say I found the FSPO process torturous I will say that the length of time gave me more thinking time and I do think this ultimately helped me to remember aspects or come up with new strategies which did help too

Still a tough wait though  ;-)


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2019)

notabene said:


> the banks are making plenty of money again - time for them to hire the staff to deal with it in an appropriate time frame



Hi nb 

I was speaking to someone working in an area not related to trackers. He told me that  with full employment in Ireland, it's impossible to attract and retain staff for "mass processing operations.".  He used some expression like that.  They get a lot of queries which must be responded to individually. It takes them a long time to train people and the good people tend to go on to better things.  He said it must be very difficult for the banks to deal with the arrears cases.   It's not nice work and so good people move on very quickly. 

The trackers would be more complicated. 

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (30 Sep 2019)

Given that we move into October tomorrow it is a possibility that there will be no details of H1 2019 decisions provided and it may be just all of 2019 released together. 

Also I haven’t read here or elsewhere of any decisions being made. It could be that, given the volume of cases, the ombudsman could be working though the cases for the next few years (unless they can batch some cohorts together). It would be great if we heard some decisions this year just to keep us sane!

My case has been in “Active Adjudication” with no further comments from me or the bank since Jan 2019. I was told on July 10th 2019 that they were drafting preliminary findings. I asked the FSPO when H1 2019 findings would be published but I got no response.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Sep 2019)

Dpdp01050842 said:


> My case has been in “Active Adjudication” with no further comments from me or the bank since Jan 2019.



That is very disappointing. 

I thought that the delay was due to each side insisting on replying to the last response.

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (30 Sep 2019)

No just sitting with them. My last comment back was in late 2018. I didn’t engage in comment ping pong.

In April 2019 the FSPO asked for all correspondence between the bank and the panel (which rejected my appeal). This was information that had already been sent to the FSPO months before this in mid 2018 so they received the exact same pack again.


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## JMexubbanker (1 Oct 2019)

This really is so disappointing and very disheartening. I understand that the FSPO is out the door but this ordeal has gone on far too long for some folk.


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## Dpdp01050842 (14 Nov 2019)

Today I am 13 months since the case was handed over from the investigation team to the adjudication team for a decision. There must be something going on in the background but what I’ve no idea. Absolutely no comments on progress from the Ombudsman and they sidestepped their last planned committee appearance. I know I’ll be delighted if they eventually find in my favor but the whole process is torture


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## SaySomething (3 Mar 2020)

Has anybody progressed any further with the FSPO @Dpdp01050842 have you had any joy?
I have a complaint lodged with the FSPO since Oct '19 but haven't even been allocated a Dispute Resolution Officer yet.


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## Dpdp01050842 (3 Mar 2020)

Nothing, 17 months since investigation finished. My expectation is it will be in the next 4-12 weeks at which point I won’t be able to comment for 15 + 35 days. I hope I’ll be able to summarise at some point during the summer.


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