# Vodafone Return of Value forms arrived too late



## harriet (20 Feb 2014)

Only received forms today despite several phonecalls to Computershare over the last month.   

So what happens now that the form didn't go back


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## Olivetti (20 Feb 2014)

Same here. Absolutely appalling service. I rang them on 20 January to change address, and twice since to chase up non-appearing forms. When the forms arrived today they still carry the old address (i.e. weren't reprinted) so it took A MONTH to stick a label on an envelope and send it from Bristol to Dublin. What a farce! 

 I intend to fill in capital payment selection, take a copy of the form, bin it, and use that to indicate to Revenue what I selected if it ever comes up. Given that it's self-assessment, it seems unlikely to, and the Revenue are hardly going to ask the company what election thousands of Irish shareholders made. Any potential pitfalls with this?


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## harriet (20 Feb 2014)

Yep same here - old address and label over - I asked them 3 times what address they were sent to and they couldn't answer me


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## MrEarl (21 Feb 2014)

Make formal complaints with Compushare (ideally, put your complaints in writting and if possible, send them by registered post).

https://www-uk.computershare.com/in...tegory={4C1C04BE-BE03-4109-8903-51FFB9CE0701}

Assuming no satisfaction, escalate it to a complaint with the UK Regulator.

I'd also file formal complaints with Vodafone to be honest.  Both parties are responsible in my view.


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## Olivetti (21 Feb 2014)

Thanks Mr Earl - I had thought of that approach, but now am angling against. For two reasons (1) I don't think they'll change anything - the T&Cs booklet states that while "notices sent by Computershare will be treated as received two days after being sent" (just a bit quicker than the month it actually took!) ... "any documents sent {in either direction} ... are entirely at your own risk" and Computershare accepts no liability etc ; and (2) if the Revenue accept my claim that it's a capital payment then it doesn't matter anyway. 

Anyone else have any thoughts? 

Thanks


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## Janet (21 Feb 2014)

Olivetti said:


> I intend to fill in capital payment selection, take a copy of the form, bin it, and use that to indicate to Revenue what I selected if it ever comes up. Given that it's self-assessment, it seems unlikely to, and the Revenue are hardly going to ask the company what election thousands of Irish shareholders made. Any potential pitfalls with this?


I wonder if this is really possible. The type of shares you'll be issued are different depending on whether you chose the capital or income option - would the type of share received not be somewhere on the documentation you might have to submit to Revenue when doing returns? 


Don't forget that the second part of the form, regarding the direct sale of Verizon shares using the free-dealing scheme, can still be submitted until the start of April - if you're not going to hold on to them and want to avail of that, you should send that in. And, to be honest, I think I'd just send both in now anyway - at least then you've done your best to make your wishes known in as timely a manner as possible. And, as mentioned above, complain in writing to both Computershare and Vodafone. Honestly, I don't know why Vodafone didn't just spare themselves the headache and automatically opt everyone (or at least all the one-off small investors from eircom days) for the capital option!


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## Drakon (21 Feb 2014)

Janet said:


> Honestly, I don't know why Vodafone didn't just spare themselves the headache and automatically opt everyone (or at least all the one-off small investors from eircom days) for the capital option!



The most tax efficient option for most Vodafone shareholders would be the dividend option.  I assume this is the reason it is the default option.


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## marathonic (21 Feb 2014)

Belton said:


> The most tax efficient option for most Vodafone shareholders would be the dividend option.  I assume this is the reason it is the default option.



Why is this? I thought the dividends would be taxed at your marginal rate. The other option, I thought, would allow you to use your annual CGT exemption and only be taxed as Capital Gains on the excess, if any.


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## Janet (23 Feb 2014)

marathonic said:


> Why is this? I thought the dividends would be taxed at your marginal rate. The other option, I thought, would allow you to use your annual CGT exemption and only be taxed as Capital Gains on the excess, if any.



Me too. I thought that as most of the small shareholders still have losses from the eircom/Valentia sale available to use, the capital option was the most tax efficient one for the majority of them.


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## Jpg49 (27 Feb 2014)

I opted for the capital tax option and sent off my forms on 14th February. This morning I received a letter, dated 25th. Feb. to inform me that they had received my form after 1pm on 20th. February and the default options will be applied. In other words the "windfall" will be treated as income for taxation purposes. I rang Computershare for an explanation and they placed the blame on the Royal Mail and there is nothing they can do. It would appear that 6 days are not sufficient to send a letter to England! Anybody else have a similar problem?


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## Foxfort (27 Feb 2014)

Same letter received today and I left 10 days for posting to England. Have no proof of posting and told on phone today that must write letter to complaints dept.


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## Tom E (27 Feb 2014)

*Same boat - and quite angry*

I posted my Election Form on the 13th February, a day before the Irish Times published an article by Dominic Coyle which stated that investors could still receive forms from Computershare to indicate their preferences. I too rang Computershare when I received their letter today. When I asked the call centre person could they please honour my wishes and go the capital option I was told that "you have to understand". I told her that it was they who had to understand that their inability to deal with the level of correspondance they received was the issue and was going to leave me out of pocket. 
I think they took the handy way out and just allowed the default option run rather than pay the extra resources needed to process the returned forms. I urge everyone to complain to Vodafone, Computershare, the Financial Conduct Authority, the Financial Regulator and the Central Bank. I would say that Dominic Coyle would like to know how many of us there are also.


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## margaret1 (27 Feb 2014)

Jpg49 said:


> I opted for the capital tax option and sent off my forms on 14th February. This morning I received a letter, dated 25th. Feb. to inform me that they had received my form after 1pm on 20th. February and the default options will be applied. In other words the "windfall" will be treated as income for taxation purposes. I rang Computershare for an explanation and they placed the blame on the Royal Mail and there is nothing they can do. It would appear that 6 days are not sufficient to send a letter to England! Anybody else have a similar problem?



Same situation and received the letter today(27th) from Bristol UK dated 25th. It would appear post took 2 days UK-IRL. Unfortunately with the freepost envelope to return the original forms I have no proof of postage date either. As well as paying income tax we are all batched into a different share dealing date also and not the first one as we intended.


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## MrEarl (27 Feb 2014)

Don't do the typical Irish thing guys ....

Fight back !!!!

Lodge complaints and if necessary, consider appointing a law firm to represent you as a group.


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## lock1 (27 Feb 2014)

This whole process seems totally frustrating.I actually posted my forms back on the 09.02. in the free post envelope and going for the capital option.Returned the forms for myself and my wife.I didn't bother registering the letters as I assumed 11 days was sufficient to post the forms.Doesn't seem 11 days was long enough.Amazingly got the letters back in two days received this morning advising my letters were not received on time and that I could not opt for the capital option.
I wold love to know what date you needed to post the forms back by or was an earlier deadline imposed from an admin point of view?


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## lock1 (27 Feb 2014)

I was going to send a letter to Dominic Coyle or is there an e.mail address you can write to.I cannot seem to find it on the Irish times website?


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## TravisT (27 Feb 2014)

This has happened to me also. Raging, i sent that form with ample time for it to get there by 20th.


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## TravisT (28 Feb 2014)

I'm confused now. I called computershare . They said my form was received on the 21st but they said that all I need to do is declare as CGT even though defaulted to Income. The representative said that the form of election is for Vodafone's records only.


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## Jpg49 (28 Feb 2014)

TravisT said:


> I'm confused now. I called computershare . They said my form was received on the 21st but they said that all I need to do is declare as CGT even though defaulted to Income. The representative said that the form of election is for Vodafone's records only.



This sounds like something that would need to be clarified by Revenue.


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## Tom E (28 Feb 2014)

lock1 said:


> I was going to send a letter to Dominic Coyle or is there an e.mail address you can write to.I cannot seem to find it on the Irish times website?


 
"finance@irishtimes.com" will get to him.


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## airgead07 (3 Mar 2014)

sent the forms back by Swift Post on 18 Feb. No letter received so far stating my forms were not received on time. Anyone else in this boat? Can I presume the forms were received on time?

Does anyone know when we can expect to receive payment? Decided to also sell the Verizon shares.

My dividends were paid directly into my bank account, will they also do this with my payment?


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## Janet (4 Mar 2014)

In case anyone who has been told their forms were received past the deadline is interested, there's an article by Dominic Coyle in today's Irish Times: How to complain over Computershare handling of Vodafone payout


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## emeralds (4 Mar 2014)

We returned 3 lots of forms. Two letters came back very rapidly saying they had arrived too late. We have heard nothing about the third form....will be very interesting to see if that one was processed in time.


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## lock1 (6 Mar 2014)

Just to update you emeralds. I had the same issue. Sent back 4 forms on the 09.02.2014.Got three letters back. When I checked with computershare three forms were received at 4.02p.m on the 22.02.2014 and the one which I did not receive a letter on was received by them at 3.02p.m on the 15.02.2014 even though they were posted on the same date and the same post box. They found it difficult to explain and tried to suggest it might be postal service for the 7 days gap between  receiving the  1st form and the other three.
 I have sent my letter of complaint on this but judging by the way this has been handled to date wouldn't have too much confidence in this.


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## WizardDr (6 Mar 2014)

It would seem to me that Revenue should be contacted and see if they are prepared to treat the payments as capital given people's intentions and actions.

I don't see that Vodafone will do anything.


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## GOSH (16 Mar 2014)

Dominic Coyles email is; 'dcoyle@irish-times.ie'


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## BudgetBrenda (16 Mar 2014)

I often post letters Dublin - London and its normally 2 days. I posted my option (capital) 3 days before deadline and was told it did not arrive in time; ditto my husband who posted his 2 days before the deadline. I read in MOS today that others had a problem and mentioning this site.

Since others who posted earlier than me had a problem, I will complain. This does not make sense.


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## BudgetBrenda (26 Mar 2014)

I complained and received the reply today - a load of waffle - as did my husband who complained separately. 

The reply included my option form with a date stamp on it.  The date stamp on my form posted Monday feb 17 at lunchtime is Saturday Feb 22, and my husbands form posted Feb 18 midday is stamped Feb 24.  I simply do not believe that our option forms took so long to get from central Dublin to Bristol when any other letter I sent to the UK never took longer than 3 days and normally two days.


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## Drakon (26 Mar 2014)

BudgetBrenda said:


> I often post letters Dublin - London and its normally 2 days. I posted my option (capital) 3 days before deadline and was told it did not arrive in time; ditto my husband who posted his 2 days before the deadline. I read in MOS today that others had a problem and mentioning this site.
> 
> Since others who posted earlier than me had a problem, I will complain. This does not make sense.



Did you register the post?  If so, you'll be able to retrieve the tracking details from An Post, including the delivery date.


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## Drakon (26 Mar 2014)

marathonic said:


> Why is this? I thought the dividends would be taxed at your marginal rate. The other option, I thought, would allow you to use your annual CGT exemption and only be taxed as Capital Gains on the excess, if any.



Most Vodafone shareholders are not Irish.


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## Drakon (26 Mar 2014)

WizardDr said:


> It would seem to me that Revenue should be contacted and see if they are prepared to treat the payments as capital given people's intentions and actions.



"While Revenue is unlikely to concede formally that it is waiving potentially significant sums of tax revenue, in reality, the cost of pursuing small shareholders will far exceed the tax owing."

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...windfall-from-vodafone-shareholders-1.1714004


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## BudgetBrenda (27 Mar 2014)

Belton said:


> Did you register the post?  If so, you'll be able to retrieve the tracking details from An Post, including the delivery date.



No I didn't. Did not want to queue in PO and pay fee for tiny amount of shares. The reply showed a date stamp on my option form. I simply dont believe why the post was so slow on this one occasion.  And slow for so many others.


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## Ag123 (30 Mar 2014)

Hi, 
I have a holding balance of 24 in Verizon following the Vodafone sale. I am thinking of availing of the free sale service. It saves on the ongoing administration of the various forms from the U.S.

What is the general feeling of people on this?


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## Janet (30 Mar 2014)

Ag123 said:


> Hi,
> I have a holding balance of 24 in Verizon following the Vodafone sale. I am thinking of availing of the free sale service. It saves on the ongoing administration of the various forms from the U.S.
> 
> What is the general feeling of people on this?


There's a good bit of discussion on that aspect in the big Vodafone/Verizon Sale thread, it might be useful for you to read that. I think the general consensus was that it made more sense to take advantage of the free dealing offer as.


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## Ag123 (30 Mar 2014)

Thanks Janet


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## whatsmoney (8 Apr 2014)

Hi folks....
Like a lot of people, I too am angry about the fact my forms were deemed late. I complained online and got a postal response from Computershare saying that there is nothing they can do. They sent me a copy of my form with the date stamp on it.... of course the stamp doesnt mean anything in my eyes....

I read the link that was posted in the thread already:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/p...ders-1.1714004

I am a little confused reading this.
Reading this it seems that Computershare has not held back any tax from the payouts, but we can expect a follow up bill in the post from Irish Revenus. Is this the case? Have they just informed Revenue that they shoudl send a bill to us?

I had understood that Computershare would deduct the tax from our payout and submit it themselves to Revenue on our behalf (if our forms were not returned on time for the capital option).

What is the actual case, does anybody know?

Thanks for any clarification you guys can give!


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## ballyb100 (4 Jun 2014)

*Free share dealing form arrived too late*

Same problem, same computershare but further down the line with the free share dealing service.
I returned four share dealing forms, all posted together. Computershare say one arrived on time but the other three did not!!! I am currently complaining and exchanging letters with them. The mail room in computershare must be a total mess. They told me the process was audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers - yes that's they of the Anglo debacle - that might help to explain the mess.
Where does one go to seek redress? Any advice?


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