# Put a bid on a house today - opinions



## Jiggy07 (2 Mar 2009)

So myself and my partner went to view a house at the weekend in an area that we like.  At the height of the property boom these houses were going for around 400,000 but this one was at 285,000.  Needs a bit of work done (nothing major just floors, tiling, shower etc.) so we liked it and told the EA this.  He said he had an offer of 282 on the table but we weren't sure we believed him so this morning I rang and put a bid of 240 on it and was laughed off the phone.  

Feel a bit stupid now but our logic was, what if the person who put the offer on pulled out or found somewhere else, like I don't think you have to bid higher in this day and age but the EA was really ticked off at me.  Was I right to do that?  Like 240 was the lowest bid we would go and we were hoping to bargain up to 250 -260.  This was our first bid but we are in no rush so don't mind being cheeky.  Anyway we'll watch it and if it's still on the market in a few months we might bid again slightly higher, is that the way to do it?  Just looking for opinions....


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## onekeano (2 Mar 2009)

Personally I'd sit tight, even if you don't get it there'll be plenty more coming along and there is little or no upward pressure - it's all dowside at this stage. As for being laughed at by the EA I wouldn't worry about that, sounds like you have a job for the forseeable future - he probably doesn't 

Plenty of the EA's former colleagues probably used to laugh the same way while they were still working but they don't anymore [broken link removed]

Roy


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## DUB 28 (2 Mar 2009)

I would be interested to know when the 282 was put on was it when it was at 400. Had  similar said to  me by afore mentioned EA. I said that's a good deal so and good luck to them... etc. etc... 

Sit tight I was in similar situation a few months back turns out the mystery bidder disappeared and lo and behold the EA came back and was wondering if we would be interested in coming closer to where the vendor was hoping to go Sale Agreed at.  

there are a number of price drop tracking websites out there that will give you an indication of where the market is currently in relation to asking prices in your respective area.  Don't worry about the EA's reaction. Treat it like any business transaction the value of a property is what someone is willing to Pay. 

good luck in your house hunt.


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## Jiggy07 (2 Mar 2009)

Cheers, yeah I know I think it'd be mad to jump on it now when house prices are set to go down again.  I mean the house seems to be a bargain alright but it's probably worth sitting tight as you say.  We have to look at another 2 in the same estate this week.  These 2 both have attic conversions and are in walk in condition but they are priced at 345 & 370 will put in much lower bids for them if we like them too.  There is no shortage of houses in that area and one of the houses we have to view has been on the market for a good while now and has had 2 price reductions!

I had to laugh at the EA though, his exact response when I told him our bid was: "I don't mean to be rude but are you having a laugh?" and he questioned whether I know how bidding worked.  Eh yeah I do mate and I also know what kind of climate we're in at the moment! 

No the 282 was put on when it was at 285 apparently it's been on the market since October at that price, owner was renting it out but moved back in and now wants rid, so the EA told us anyway...


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## DUB 28 (2 Mar 2009)

Dont take teh EA Pesonally at any stage. I found this article about negotiation on AAM or similar before but worth posting again.  Apologies if not relavant to your specifc experience. hope it helps you

*Be willing to negotiate in the first place*
Some people are too shy to talk about money. Others think it's rude or demeaning. And in many cases they're right. However, when it comes to doing a deal - and we all have to sometimes - being unwilling to engage in "money-talk" can be a very expensive business.

There are a lot of experienced negotiators out there. If you're buying a house or a car, or taking a new job, you can be sure you'll have to deal with such a person. If they can see you're timid about the whole business, many will take advantage of that fact.

*Don't get emotionally involved*
One big mistake many amateur negotiators make is to become too emotionally attached to winning. They shout, threaten and demand to get their way. This is all counter-productive.

Most deals are only possible if both people feel they're getting something out of it. If the person across the table feels attacked, or doesn't like you, they probably won't back down. Many people hate bullies, and will be more willing to walk away from a transaction if it involves one.

Keep calm, patient and friendly, even if the other person starts losing their cool. Make sure you leave any pride or ego at the door. You're much more likely to do well that way.

*Let them believe the final decision doesn't rest with you*
Once a negotiation starts, most people want to get it over with as quickly as possible. Don’t let your impatience beat you. One great way of doing this is to let them believe the person they're negotiating with isn't actually you, but some other "authority figure". Eg. Your husband or The Mrs, whoever.

Say something like "Well, I'll have to talk it over with my spouse / partner /accountant before I can come back to you".
This is also a great strategy for preventing people rushing you.

Also never run the house down with negative comments or pointing out the bad points in an effort to back up your low offer, you will only annoy the EA. The EA cannot use that sort of info to get the seller to drop the price. Agree it's a great property with great potential but that the money is the issue not the house.

Offer less than you expect to pay. Have a final figure in your head which is your true walkaway figure.
Stage 1: Outrage by EA at first offer.
Expect the estate agent to be horrified at your first offer. They will tell you the seller won’t take it. State calmly that’s your offer and to let you know in due course.
Soon the estate agent may come back to you and tell you the offer is most definitely refused. Don't do anything. Give it a couple of weeks.
Or the estate agent may come back with a few quid knocked off the asking price but not much. Then you know they are prepared to negotiate....


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## PaddyBloggit (2 Mar 2009)

If the owner wants rid of the property then every offer should be considered.


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## parkmagic (2 Mar 2009)

Jiggy07 said:


> So myself and my partner went to view a house at the weekend in an area that we like. At the height of the property boom these houses were going for around 400,000 but this one was at 285,000. Needs a bit of work done (nothing major just floors, tiling, shower etc.) so we liked it and told the EA this. He said he had an offer of 282 on the table but we weren't sure we believed him so this morning I rang and put a bid of 240 on it and was laughed off the phone.
> 
> Feel a bit stupid now but our logic was, what if the person who put the offer on pulled out or found somewhere else, like I don't think you have to bid higher in this day and age but the EA was really ticked off at me. Was I right to do that? Like 240 was the lowest bid we would go and we were hoping to bargain up to 250 -260. This was our first bid but we are in no rush so don't mind being cheeky. Anyway we'll watch it and if it's still on the market in a few months we might bid again slightly higher, is that the way to do it? Just looking for opinions....


 
Where is the property located?


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## Dreamerb (2 Mar 2009)

Maybe the 282 is real, maybe it's not. If it is real, there is just no point making a lower bid unless you are in an otherwise better position than the bidder (first time or no-chain buyer, approved for mortgage or with ready cash, for example, will be a better prospect than someone who hasn't got full mortgage approval or who can only complete subject to the sale of their own house). 

In your position, I'd have asked what the other bidder's position was, i.e whether they had finance in place or were in a chain. If they weren't approved and ready-to-go I'd set out my position - "I like the place, I've finance in place, and I'm ready to move. But I can't afford 282, and if the vendors want a quick sale I can offer 240k". That makes you look far more like a serious contender, though obviously many buyers might hold out for the higher amount.

If, on the other hand the other bidder has finance in place and is ready-to-go then you say "Well, I like the place, but I can't afford to offer that - so will you please come back to me if they pull out? I might be able to put in an offer" If the other bid is not "real", or even if it is but something goes wrong, you've left the door open with the agent and they might come back to you. You haven't committed to an amount, but the agent should realise you're serious. In any case, if the property's still on the market in a month you can always call and say you see it's still on the market, is there anything happening with it? 

EA was, as is almost invariably the case when someone says "I don't mean to be rude but...", being rude - which is very foolish when every prospective buyer should be treated with kid gloves. It also strikes me you were a bit underprepared. Be tactical next time: tell them why they should consider your bid even if it isn't necessarily the highest. Money talks louder than anything else, so if you're bidding lower than someone else you need to be really clear on why you're the right buyer. Have your approval in principle, and make sure you have all your paperwork in order and can get final mortgage approval rapidly.


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## Jiggy07 (2 Mar 2009)

Thanks that's sound advice.  Yes you're right I suppose am a little underprepared as I said this was our first bid and we are trying to arm ourselves with all the tactics and info it takes to negotiate ourselves a good deal.  We are in a good position in that we are FTB's and are renting so can move in immediately so will definately play that one up if bidding again.  We have yet to speak to the banks about a mortgage but my partner was approved for one on his own before so shouldn't be a problem (fingers crossed though!)

I can see how I played it wrong now I just blurted out the figure and the EA got all shocked & defensive and also I really should have found out the status of the other bidder, ah well that'll be a lesson for next time!    The EA said that the property was obviously out of my budget and suggested another house in an area we aren't interested in, he just wasn't entertaining me at all.  When an EA asks you what your budget is should you let them know?  Or should you just say: Well we are interested in looking at houses up to X amount but we prefer to keep our budget to ourselves?  Reason I ask is you obviously don't want them to know your upper limit.


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## Dreamerb (2 Mar 2009)

I'd be inclined to specify location and criteria ahead of budget, but don't underplay your hand: if the EA thinks you have 240 to spend but _definitely _not more he may not call you about properties where he thinks there's a good chance of getting more. You could leave yourselves some wriggle room by saying that you _might _have a little flexibility for the right house. You don't want him writing you off as a waste of time to show things to either.

To be honest though, it depends on the EA. Some are on the ball and will call you, other won't. Most will suss out your budget anyway - particularly hard to avoid if you look at and bid on multiple houses with the same agent. Just, whatever you do, set your budget according to the house. You don't _have _to spend your entire budget, or bid up to the maximum you have on every house. The EA for the last house I bought knew for a fact that I had a substantially larger budget because I'd bid much more on a different house - but also knew I wasn't going to pay that much for the one I did buy, and knew why. 

You're in a strong position as FTBs, and will be in an even better position when you get mortgage approval. If you can keep a level head and avoid falling in love with a house you have to have no matter what, you can use that to tremendous (long term financial!) advantage.


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## Flax (2 Mar 2009)

Amazing how every house always has another offer on the table, even though no one is buying at the moment.

Sit tight. Chances are the house will still be available in a few months and your offer will be considered.


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## decembersal (2 Mar 2009)

You put in an offer based on what the house was 'worth to you' and that was 240k. Did the EA say when he would come back to you? 

Best of luck - it's a stressful time but you are in a good position being FTB so use that to your advantage by telling the EA.


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## Soarer (2 Mar 2009)

If the house is on the market for €285k, there's not a chance that they've got an offer of €282k.
I don't know of any seller that'd lose a sale in the current market for the sake of €3k.

If someone had offered €282k when the house was on the market for €285k, the house would be sold. End of.


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## cityboy (2 Mar 2009)

> If someone had offered €282k when the house was on the market for €285k, the house would be sold. End of.



Exactly and do not feel bad about offering 240 - are these recently built houses? Could you see what they originally were sold for?

Sit tight, plenty out there and the EA could be back to you before long.


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## cityboy (2 Mar 2009)

> Does anyone have the website that shows you the price drops on houses?


 
think its thepropertypin(dot)com


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## g1g (2 Mar 2009)

www.irishpropertywatch.com


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## philboy (2 Mar 2009)

Soarer said:


> If the house is on the market for €285k, there's not a chance that they've got an offer of €282k.
> I don't know of any seller that'd lose a sale in the current market for the sake of €3k.
> 
> If someone had offered €282k when the house was on the market for €285k, the house would be sold. End of.


Completely agree with the above post.


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## Bob_tg (2 Mar 2009)

Do you know the name of the owner?  Well, I'm sure you at least know their address.

Send a letter to the EA and cc the owner (or their address) confirming your offer (with an expiry date).  Sometimes the EAs do not pass on these offers...you never know, if the owner got that information about your offer, s/he might actually be interested in it.  

As it stands, you do not know for a fact that (1) there is an offer higher than yours, or (2) that the owner was informed by the EA about your bid.  If I was the owner, I would wish to know about every single offer.


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## Shawady (3 Mar 2009)

Jiggy,
I would completely aggree with a lot of the above posts.
I know sellers that have accepted bids of 20k to 30k less than asking price and have been delighted to accept them.
I moved house 3 years ago and it was an eye opener. Most houses we viewed sold for 50k over the asking price so it is not unreasonable that houses should sell for a good bit less than the asking price in a recession.

Out of interest, where is the house located?


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## Jiggy07 (3 Mar 2009)

Shawady said:


> Out of interest, where is the house located?


 ***


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## Dreamerb (3 Mar 2009)

Soarer said:


> If someone had offered €282k when the house was on the market for €285k, the house would be sold. End of.


I don't quite agree. Yes, a seller in this market would be wise to accept an offer so close to asking - the thing is, there could be a conditional offer subject to the sale of their own home. Given how long places are staying on the market these days, that's pretty open-ended and many vendors would be unwilling to accept / would take a lower offer to have the guaranteed sale; the critical question is how much lower they'll go. That's why I suggested asking what the other - if there is another - bidder's position is.


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## deedee80 (3 Mar 2009)

Just wondering which estate Jiggy07 - I would be quite familiar with Citywest (a good few of my friends moved there a few years back....) I can let you know what I would have offered if I know the estate....


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## Jiggy07 (3 Mar 2009)

Oh she didn't! His attitude totally put her off, she got him in to do a valuation on her house and he spent 2 hours there trying to convince her to sell at a price she didn't want to and in the end got another EA who was much more professional and got her a good price (she sold at the right time).  But she said he was a right chancer.


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## Shawady (3 Mar 2009)

Dreamerb said:


> I don't quite agree. Yes, a seller in this market would be wise to accept an offer so close to asking - the thing is, there could be a conditional offer subject to the sale of their own home. Given how long places are staying on the market these days, that's pretty open-ended and many vendors would be unwilling to accept / would take a lower offer to have the guaranteed sale; the critical question is how much lower they'll go. That's why I suggested asking what the other - if there is another - bidder's position is.


 
If someone missed out on a sale for 3K it would be very unwise in today's market but as you say it is not known what position they are in.
If the house is 6 years old, would the 240k that Jiggy offered be close to the original price of the house. Maybe they can't afford to go this low?


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## Flax (3 Mar 2009)

I think when buying a house you have to take a long term view.

Is the Irish economy in trouble? Yes.
Are things going to get worse? Yes.
Will it be many years before things stablise a bit? Probably.

So be sure the "bargain" you are getting will still be a bargain in 5 or 10 years. If you happen to lose your job and find yourself in negative equity, you won't be able to escape from Ireland.

Don't let the EA talk you into paying more than you believe is affordable.


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## deedee80 (3 Mar 2009)

Ah yes, I know that estate and that is a very good price for a house there.  As someone else pointed out, the 240 price might be less than what was originally paid for the house.  I looked at this estate back in 2005 (there was one or two left) and I think they were asking 340 at the time.  The earlier phase would have been cheaper though. I would check www.independent.ie to do a search and see the price of the houses when they were launched and then you could work off that, if you are eager to get the house.  The people selling might be eager to sell but I can't see them doing it at a loss.


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## midouri (3 Mar 2009)

I would say sit tight for the minute. The EA will probably play it cool. Do nothing for maybe 2 weeks and if ya here nothing sure there's no harm in going a bit higher but the next time stick firm to what you say as he may think you will go higher again at some stage. So when ya make the next offer i would say to him that it's ur final offer and won't change. Then be prepared to walk away if they don't accept!!
You will get something else sure.


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## Jiggy07 (3 Mar 2009)

Well the 240 that we offered was only our starting bid, if it came to it, would bid slightly more but sure the EA never even entertained any negotiations for it and I slipped up myself by not suggesting that we were willing to be flexible on the price. I am trying to see what they originally sold for but can't seem to find that info, does anyone have any idea?

Yeah I will sit tight on this one I think and leave it a couple of weeks.  Does anyone know if an EA is obliged to pass on every offer to the vendor, like if I put my next offer in writing and requested that the EA pass it onto the vendor would he have to?  Also can you ask to see the "other bid" in writing?  I know they accept a verbal offer so may not have it but is it worth asking anyway?


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## Slaphead (3 Mar 2009)

I put a low bid on a house 4 weeks ago, early febuary, house was slightly reduced from peak price (5% maybe), not in great condition and was about to be reduced a further 10%, i bid 19% under this and got the usual crap from the EA. (I actually recorded the call on my phone just to have it to learn from for next time).

The plan was to come back with a higher bid 2 weeks later or so but the more i mulled over it the bid i made was actually a tad on the high side so i've done nothing. He's done nothing either but the house hasnt budged and im expecting them to get back to me sooner or later, if/when he does it'll be down a further 5-7%, either way im not bothered, happy enough renting in the meanwhile keeping my eye on other stuff. It's important to be patient, my rent will be 10k this yr, beats the **** out of buying a house and see it drop 50k in a yr!


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## Joody1 (3 Mar 2009)

I have been looking at properties on the net for my elderly sister and she has a specific sum to pay for the property no more.  The bid I have put in  is  80k below the asking price on a new development that a EA is advertising this is the amount that she can pay and no more the property is not 50 miles outside Dublin.  

The EA got back and says that they may have a property that will be 30k below their asking price but I know that will be too much for sister to pay.  So I will have to wait and see if the developer will drop their properties prices a bit more. I expect they would want to shift properties as they have large costs on these developments.


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## bleary (4 Mar 2009)

jiggy you might want to edit your post and remove the name of the estate-it would be very easily identified from these details -you also might want to take out your top figure from your posts


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## Jiggy07 (4 Mar 2009)

Yes TMI I think, thanks bleary


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## deedee80 (4 Mar 2009)

sent you a pm Jiggy07!


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