# Central Bank Staff to get one extra day off after getting 85% on Balanced Scrore Card



## cremeegg (26 Mar 2014)

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-bank-staff-as-it-gives-itself-an-a-1.1737976

Great to see it.


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## Duke of Marmalade (26 Mar 2014)

cremeegg said:


> http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-bank-staff-as-it-gives-itself-an-a-1.1737976
> 
> Great to see it.


Yes that is a fantastic performance by the bank.  They thoroughly deserve their holiday.


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## Sunny (26 Mar 2014)

To be fair, some of those staff work 32.5 or even 35 hour weeks. It's not easy. I hear that things are so busy in there that they still have a tea trolley that goes around the offices bringing the busy bees their tea.


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## Delboy (26 Mar 2014)

Sunny said:


> To be fair, some of those staff work 32.5 or even 35 hour weeks. It's not easy. I hear that things are so busy in there that they still have a tea trolley that goes around the offices bringing the busy bees their tea.



I heard that one as well. Haddington Rd and Croke Park sure have rung the changes in the PS/CS....world class they are


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Mar 2014)

And apparently, in the statistics division of the Central Bank, 97% performed "above average".


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## Purple (26 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> And apparently, in the statistics division of the Central Bank, 97% performed "above average".



Lol


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## Deiseblue (26 Mar 2014)

Sunny said:


> To be fair, some of those staff work 32.5 or even 35 hour weeks. It's not easy. I hear that things are so busy in there that they still have a tea trolley that goes around the offices bringing the busy bees their tea.



They tried that in my last place of work but we vetoed it as it would have meant working at our desks rather than taking our two 15 minute breaks in the designated coffee area !


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## cremeegg (27 Mar 2014)

Sunny said:


> they still have a tea trolley that goes around the offices bringing the busy bees their tea.



I used to work for an audit firm in England and a number of the clients we worked with had this tea trolley culture.

In my opinion it was used entirely as a marker of social class. Some people bring tea, some people have tea brought.

I understand that when Irish Army officers attend external meetings rather than use public transport or a private car they bring an army driver (servant).

Good to see that culture alive and well in the public service.


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## Deiseblue (27 Mar 2014)

cremeegg said:


> I used to work for an audit firm in England and a number of the clients we worked with had this tea trolley culture.
> 
> In my opinion it was used entirely as a marker of social class. Some people bring tea, some people have tea brought.
> 
> ...



Surely in the case of the Central Bank such tea trolley service is a time saving exercise in that staff continue to work at their desks.

As I posted above when I worked in the Bank of Ireland we resisted the introduction of such a service as it would have increased our working week from 32.5 hours to 35 hours by dint of the fact that we would not have been able to avail of the two 15 minute breaks away from our desks .


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## Delboy (27 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> Surely in the case of the Central Bank such tea trolley service is a time saving exercise in that staff continue to work at their desks.
> 
> As I posted above when I worked in the Bank of Ireland we resisted the introduction of such a service as it would have increased our working week from 32.5 hours to 35 hours by dint of the fact that we would not have been able to avail of the two 15 minute breaks away from our desks .



I'd guess that it's more a relic of the past than a time saving excercise


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## DB74 (27 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> As I posted above when I worked in the Bank of Ireland we resisted the introduction of such a service as it would have increased our working week from 32.5 hours to 35 hours by dint of the fact that we would not have been able to avail of the two 15 minute breaks away from our desks .



I thought you were joking


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## Deiseblue (27 Mar 2014)

DB74 said:


> I thought you were joking



No , absolutely not !

When I joined the Bank many years ago due to practice & precedence I received an hour for lunch & two 15 minute breaks daily.

The standard working day then was then 9.30 to 5.45 but that was changed to 9.30 to 5.30 after an agreement with the Union some 10 years ago.

Granted there were several occasions where overtime was worked but it was recorded & paid for in addition a tea allowance was provided.

Some years ago our area was subsumed into a larger relatively autonomous area of the Bank where Union density was low & they mooted the idea of a tea trolley but withdrew after the practice & precedence argument was upheld.

My wife continues to work in a Bank & enjoys the same terms still.


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## Delboy (27 Mar 2014)

ah, 'Precedence'. That's the 1st word a wannabe Union official learns in Liberty Hall school room 101.


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## Deiseblue (27 Mar 2014)

Delboy said:


> ah, 'Precedence'. That's the 1st word a wannabe Union official learns in Liberty Hall school room 101.



Learnt it at my father's knee in Waterford 

That & " that would be a matter For the Union "


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## Purple (27 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> No , absolutely not !
> 
> When I joined the Bank many years ago due to practice & precedence I received an hour for lunch & two 15 minute breaks daily.
> 
> ...



This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, that's depressing...


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## Seagull (27 Mar 2014)

When we first arrived here, my hours changed from
8 - 4:30 with a 45 minute lunch break
to 
9 - 5 with an hour lunch and a 15 minute tea break.

Anyone want to guess which sector that was in?


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## Deiseblue (27 Mar 2014)

Seagull said:


> When we first arrived here, my hours changed from
> 8 - 4:30 with a 45 minute lunch break
> to
> 9 - 5 with an hour lunch and a 15 minute tea break.
> ...



8 to 4.30 with no tea breaks & a 45 minute lunch !

Only a guess , were you a galley slave ?


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## oysterman (28 Mar 2014)

cremeegg said:


> ...this tea trolley culture.
> 
> In my opinion it was used entirely as a marker of social class. Some people bring tea, some people have tea brought.


What an odd attitude. Those of us who work in service industries have no difficulty with doing things for other people. I don't for a moment feel that the people I serve have any sort of class advantage over me.

Plus, I suspect the person bringing the teas around wouldn't want class warriors talking him or her out of a job!


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## Firefly (28 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> As I posted above when I worked in the Bank of Ireland we resisted the introduction of such a service as it would have increased our working week from 32.5 hours to 35 hours by dint of the fact that we would not have been able to avail of the two 15 minute breaks away from our desks .



Hi Deise, 

I did some work for BOI a number of years ago and could never figure out how the place made any money with the carry on I witnessed. Suppose I know now that they weren't making money after all!! It was a bit sad though to be fair on some. I remember working with a really talented lady who had bought shares every year (there was a deal for permies where they could buy shares out of gross pay, hold them for 3 or 4 years without paying income tax) and ended up with very little. The other thing I found strange was that the canteen charged for tea and coffee. There were some really good people I worked with though....the banks were early adopters of IT and it shows...some of the strongest people I worked with were from the banks. An awe flu lot of dossiers too though. Still....at least we're not paying defined benefit pensions for them though, are we???


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## Deiseblue (28 Mar 2014)

Hi firefly ,
I am a bit confused , the BOI pension scheme continues to operate as a a defined benefit scheme ( thankfully ! ) although closed to new entrants.

BOI was always prosperous but unfortunately was brought to it's knees by by chasing the Anglo model ( pressurised to do so by the larger shareholders it must be said ) allied to a sense of rabid greed promoted by the hugely competive bonus driven culture of the entire Irish Banking system at the time .

It really was a great place to work until the 1992 strike - the result of which introduced a hugely adversarial element to IR relations.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> Hi firefly ,
> I am a bit confused , the BOI pension scheme continues to operate as a a defined benefit scheme ( thankfully ! ) although closed to new entrants.
> 
> BOI was always prosperous but unfortunately was brought to it's knees by by chasing the Anglo model ( pressurised to do so by the larger shareholders it must be said ) allied to a sense of rabid greed promoted by the hugely competive bonus driven culture of the entire Irish Banking system at the time .
> ...


Is the BOI defined benefit fund viable or is it being subsidised by the company (i.e. the current employees)?
What were the issues that led to the 1992 strike?


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## DB74 (31 Mar 2014)

Purple said:


> What were the issues that let to the 1992 strike?



The bank wanted to serve plain hob-nobs instead of chocolate-covered ones in the canteen?


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## Delboy (31 Mar 2014)

DB74 said:


> The bank wanted to serve plain hob-nobs instead of chocolate-covered ones in the canteen?



Even though the precedence was for chocolate hob nobs!!! Shocking behaviour by the capitalist pigs


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## Deiseblue (31 Mar 2014)

Really lads , you shouldn't really be getting so upset at the fact that BOI employees continue to enjoy 1 hour lunches & two coffee breaks & a 32.5 hour week - great work life balance .

Always loved hobnobs , McVities is of course a unionised concern !


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## Purple (31 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> Really lads , you shouldn't really be getting so upset at the fact that BOI employees continue to enjoy 1 hour lunches & two coffee breaks & a 32.5 hour week - great work life balance .
> 
> Always loved hobnobs , McVities is of course a unionised concern !


I have no problem with their working week, as long as they are paid accordingly. 
My question is whether the existing employees, who are on defined contribution pensions, are funding the defined benefit pensions of their retired colleagues.


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## Kine (31 Mar 2014)

Defined Benefit pension issues predomianntly arose (afaik) from the bank making no contributions during several boom years as the assets were valued so high versus liabilities, hence the c. €1.5bn defeciti a few years ago. 

DB plan has had a few hatchet jobs to it so the people who joined in later years will not receive the same benefits as those who were close to retirement.

Haven't been around the detail enough recently to see who is funding it now though.


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## Sunny (31 Mar 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> Really lads , you shouldn't really be getting so upset at the fact that BOI employees continue to enjoy 1 hour lunches & two coffee breaks & a 32.5 hour week - great work life balance .
> 
> Always loved hobnobs , McVities is of course a unionised concern !



SOME employees have those conditions and they are all of a certain age! I have worked in three Irish banks and no-one I worked with had those conditions.


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## Deiseblue (31 Mar 2014)

Sunny said:


> SOME employees have those conditions and they are all of a certain age! I have worked in three Irish banks and no-one I worked with had those conditions.



I worked in a Department where everyone from the manager to the junior enjoyed these conditions.

My wife worked in 5 Dublin central branches & indeed still works centrally & has always enjoyed these conditions .

There are certainly locations , particularly some Departments , where the vast preponderance of staff are on pay for performance , bonus related contracts where coffee breaks were traditionally considered as being for wusses - times are however changing as such people are becoming increasing demoralised as bonuses are by & large a thing of the past & they are forced to make do with the relatively low base salary ( when compared to the more traditional Union negotiated contracts ) - coffee drinking is apparently on the increase.

It should be noted that when BOI refurbished the old head office in the early 2000's they put in a coffee area on every floor on the basis that staff interaction was not only good for morale but encouraged cross reference ,productivity & an exchange of ideas & knowledge as well as general chit chat.


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## ajapale (31 Mar 2014)

The "balanced scorecard" as a measure of performance managment was proposed by Kaplan and Norton in the late '80's and early 90's. It was very popular with American Multinationals in the nineties.

It would be interesting to see how a section of the public service are using it.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> It should be noted that when BOI refurbished the old head office in the early 2000's they put in a coffee area on every floor on the basis that staff interaction was not only good for morale but encouraged cross reference ,productivity & an exchange of ideas & knowledge as well as general chit chat.



I agree with this. It’s good to talk and meet the people you are working with. This is especially true in a larger organisation.
 I work in a small business (around 100 people) and people can make tea or coffee whenever they want and bring it to where they work. There is a 15 minute paid break in the morning and 30 minutes for lunch which is unpaid.  I find it strange that any employer would charge for tea or coffee.

The issue here is what was implemented and how it was implemented. Who gets to drink tea when is of no consequence.


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## Firefly (1 Apr 2014)

Deiseblue said:


> Hi firefly ,
> I am a bit confused , the BOI pension scheme continues to operate as a a defined benefit scheme ( thankfully ! ) although closed to new entrants.


Seems to be standard practice these days - pull up the draw-bridge to protect the incumbents. Actually, I would be delighted if the same happened across the PS,  at least this way the future liability of pensions would be "defined"  . I'm surprised that the unions aren't calling for this either...have you seen the national debt figure recently?




Deiseblue said:


> BOI was always prosperous but unfortunately was brought to it's knees by by chasing the Anglo model ( pressurised to do so by the larger shareholders it must be said ) allied to a sense of rabid greed promoted by the hugely competive bonus driven culture of the entire Irish Banking system at the time .


I agree with that. BoI was regarded as the sleepier of the 2 main banks, but like anyone who arrives late to a wedding with a free bar, they consumed far too much in the late hours. 




Deiseblue said:


> It really was a great place to work until the 1992 strike - the result of which introduced a hugely adversarial element to IR relations.



I take your word for it - well before my time


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## becky (1 Apr 2014)

Firefly said:


> Seems to be standard practice these days - pull up the draw-bridge to protect the incumbents. Actually, I would be delighted if the same happened across the PS,  at least this way the future liability of pensions would be "defined"  . I'm surprised that the unions aren't calling for this either...have you seen the national debt figure recently?



Single Public Service Pension Scheme
The new Single Public Service Pension Scheme (“Single Scheme”) commenced with effect from 1 January 2013.
All new entrants to pensionable public service employment on or after 1 January 2013 are, in general, members of the Single Scheme.

http://www.per.gov.ie/single-scheme-brief-overview/


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## Firefly (2 Apr 2014)

becky said:


> Single Public Service Pension Scheme
> The new Single Public Service Pension Scheme (“Single Scheme”) commenced with effect from 1 January 2013.
> All new entrants to pensionable public service employment on or after 1 January 2013 are, in general, members of the Single Scheme.
> 
> http://www.per.gov.ie/single-scheme-brief-overview/



Hi Becky,

It's an improvement (for the taxpayer) but it's still a defined benefit scheme that leaves us open to further strains in the future. A defined contribution model would be far better IMO.


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## Firefly (3 Apr 2014)

98bn just for pensions. Blood from a stone methinks..
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0403/606429-state-pensions


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## Purple (4 Apr 2014)

Firefly said:


> 98bn just for pensions. Blood from a stone methinks..
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0403/606429-state-pensions



That's like telling someone who can't swim that they are going to be thrown into 15 feet of water rather than 20 feet of water.


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