# Oil boiler vs geothermal heat pump



## rich071 (7 Sep 2009)

hi there ,
this tread has prob been quizzed before , but how and ever , i have a new build house and as any new build its eating money at minute , so we are looking at ways to lower the cost of anything and the biggest money spinner at minute is the heating , an oil burner system is a fraction of the price we are now considering the oil , but what system would i need that to be . 
house spec : 3300sq ft 2 story .
cavity 120mm wide with pumped warmfil silver beads
all external walls will have 50mm (38/12) insulated slab
all windows are double glazed with thermal glass 
window opes completly sealed up and the 50mm board returns in around the window return i allowed for this while building , joists have 200 fibre , attic will have 440mm of rockwool which will be pumped/blown in ,
100 kingspan in ground floor , and 75mm sread , up stairs i will have a 40mm licquid sread i will have ufh fitted trough out the house and completly zoned all rooms have stats , 

Am i better of going with the geo or the oil , if i go for the oil what should i include in the system , 
1: condenser boiler 
2: buffer tank 
what are the benifits of theses with oil?

i will also have solar panels fitted aswell to my hot water system , 
i want the house to be as warm as i need it to be but really dont want a massive heating or running cost bill . 
what is the benifit of fitting a buffer tank to oil , i know fitting to geo the nite rate esb heats the buffer tanks at nite and buffer heats ufh during the day ? is this correct 
sorry for the long post , but i really and stuck on this one , i need to save money and dont mind oil as it the less costly but i need to know the oil is going to work out affordalbe to run and be good heat 
thanks richard .


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## Peter C (8 Sep 2009)

Worth getting a heat loss calculation done so you know the building heat loss and size the boiler from the info supplied, condensing oil is standard now for higher efficiency.
Buffer with UFH is a great way to keep the house cosy without having the boiler firing up everytime a room calls for heat, one of the biggest mistakes with UFH is running it direct off an oil boiler using a timer because this leaves rooms that need heat waiting for the timer, it takes a long time to heat a concrete floor.


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## bayjon (27 Sep 2009)

Rich
I have a house insulated to similar standards as yours. I do have a lot of solar gain. I have UFH upstairs and downstairs. As a building services engineer I went all high tech with my house and really went ott.
My System
Air to Water Heat Pump 16KW
1000Lt Heating water Buffer
300 Lt Hot water Tank
90 No solar tubes, dual system priority hot water, then heating water
System is in detached garage thus pumping to 2 UFH manifolds
All rooms zoned.

I am finding, that 
Temperature controllers in all rooms was a waste of money. Would only Zone
Downstairs Rooms with fireplaces or other heat sources, and front and back of house.
Upstairs, main bathroom and either side of house.
Zone hall and landing if you wish.
On the solar, due to the heat gains I would not supply the buffer.
AS for the heating buffer, waste of money really, just leave your heat pump on weather compensation.

A buffer for oil is a good idea though.
I have no heat on since April 1st. 
Send a pm if you need more help.


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## Peter C (28 Sep 2009)

Interesting,
Most of the problem UFH systems I come across are because of no communication between the electricians and the plumbers leading to no temperature controls in the rooms. I would think your buffer is over sized for a 16 kw heat pump I would be looking at a modulating 30 kw pellet boiler for a buffer of that size. 
The buffer will help your boiler work efficiently and allow each room call for heat without firing the boiler leading to boiler cycling. We have fitted buffers with oil boilers and used a temperature differential controller to fire the boiler when the buffer needed heat, no need for timers and a comfortable home 24 / 7. Not wishing to sound cheeky but heat loss calculation by a professional will cost around €250.00 > €300.00 worth every penny to size the system properly, there is no way we will even quote for an air to water heat pump without the calculations to work from. We do not carry out heat loss calculations so there is no conflict.


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## villa 1 (29 Sep 2009)

I would recommend a condensing oil boiler from one of our very successfull manufacturers (Grant/firebird, home product) and solar panels/tubes. Space heat your rooms with a mix of radiators and UFH and keep your controls to a minimum because they will break and will need replacing. By all means zone areas of your house, heating and hot water with thermostats but it is going to be warm as you are putting in proper insulation. Keep it simple and keep capital costs down. Irish weather does not suit complete whole house UFH. Big overspend at the moment in house plumbing/heating systems and in my opinion a big waste of money.
30 yrs in the business. Support our own industries!!


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## Peter C (29 Sep 2009)

Appears I must agree to differ with Villa 1 regarding the controls, simple room stats rarely cause problems, fitted my first manifolds in 1977 the system still works having been added to over the years with extensions and an attic conversion. Of course we didn't have the benefit of individual room stats and actuators back then, that said 2" of attic insulation was also considered a luxury. I believe the key to a comfortable modern home begins with the insulation, in the house of today it is very easy to have a home that is uncomfortable if each room does not have controls. Designs are now taking full advantage of solar gain, heat recovery and multiple fuel sources. Many people especially self builders are future proofing their homes by making provision for future changes, I believe they should not be afraid to make such provisions. There are good quality controls available they don't have to be expensive to fit in a new build or to replace should they break, make the valves accessable for future maintenance and they don't have to be a problem.


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## villa 1 (30 Sep 2009)

Nowadays, with the high levels of insulation being included in building I think that people are spending too much on heating controls that they may never use or understand the workings of. By all means control zones but keep the system simple and keep capital costs down. In the life time of the building these capital costs will never be made up, and people should look at their carbon footprint when it comes to the cost of production of plumbing/heating appliances controls and fixtures. The most important factors in building a house/building nowadays is the building fabric, it's insulation levels and it's orientation. Get these right and your heating bills will be vastly reduced negating the need for over the top and very expensive heating systems. That's my own opinion.


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## rich071 (21 Oct 2009)

hi guys very sorry for the late reply , but thanks very much for all imput , the house is just now ready for the ufh and sreads so its d day as to how im going to heat the house , i will be back intouch in next week or so any update 
thanks rich.


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## rich071 (21 Oct 2009)

hi peter c , who could i call to get a report for heat lose and boiler size etc 
thanks 
oh also a general question , at what stage of build to i get ber test , before , during or after build ? 
thanks


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