# How To Persuade My Daughter to choose Junior Cert Business



## taytoman (25 Jan 2016)

My daughter will be entering secondary school next year, and is making junior cert subject choices in 4 weeks time. She is serious and academically orientated. She has a choice of 2 /7 optional subjects for junior cert. She is dead set against choosing business studies, despite knowing nothing at all about the subject and wanting to choose alternative subjects that she also knows nothing about! I think she just got a negative vibe at an open day. I think that business studies is a very useful broad based subject. How do I sell the idea of business studies to a reluctant 13 year old?


----------



## cremeegg (25 Jan 2016)

Don't worry about it. 

JC business studies is as close to useless as a subject can get. It is boring beyond belief and could well turn a student off the whole idea of business. 

Not having done JC business studies is no reason not to study any of the three business subjects at LC. Some schools may require it but most don't mind and there is no practical problem.


----------



## Guns N Roses (25 Jan 2016)

taytoman said:


> How do I sell the idea of business studies to a reluctant 13 year old?



It's a waste of time and money pushing students into subjects that they have no interest in. Better she follows her passions even if the future pay structure is poor.


----------



## Branz (25 Jan 2016)

taytoman said:


> How do I sell the idea of business studies to a reluctant 13 year old?



You can't.
What are her friends doing?  peer influences may help but forget it as a parent as your arguments will be logical, which doesn't work.


----------



## emeralds (25 Jan 2016)

My daughter chose to do Art instead of Businesss Studies and she has gained so much from that choice. Very happy she made that decision.


----------



## Purple (25 Jan 2016)

My son is currently studying it and it's a rubbish course. I wouldn't say anyone who was ever involved in any aspect of business had any hand, act or part in developing the course. It's like something developed by the Consumers Association and a Trade Union. Let her do something else and study Economics or something for the Leaving Cert.


----------



## mtk (25 Jan 2016)

My daughter loves it. 
Great to know your consumer rights etc.  Loves accounts aspects 

However I would not try to force your own daughter to do it . YOU will be blamed if she does not like it.


----------



## Purple (25 Jan 2016)

mtk said:


> My daughter loves it.
> Great to know your consumer rights etc.



It is but it's got bugger all to do with business from the business side.


----------



## mtk (25 Jan 2016)

Purple said:


> It is but it's got bugger all to do with business from the business side


I disagree
Legal/consumer (reputational) risks are important for  most businesses. 
Anyway 50% is accounts and looks pretty good to me ( as numerate but not an accountant)
way off thread anyway


----------



## Purple (25 Jan 2016)

mtk said:


> I disagree
> Legal/consumer (reputational) risks are important for  most businesses.


 Have you looked at the stuff they cover? It's like a Trade Union handbook.


----------



## Thirsty (25 Jan 2016)

> How do I sell the idea of business studies to a reluctant 13 year old


You don't.  Let her choose her own subjects, as long as she's doing Irish/English/Maths/History/Geography/Science/Language - you've got all the important stuff covered - leave her select the optional stuff.


----------



## Purple (25 Jan 2016)

In fairness to the OP it is important that kids don't limit their options for the Leaving Cert. 
From a job prospect an understanding of business or a foreign language is more important than knowing how to speak Irish or how an oxbow lake is formed.


----------



## taytoman (26 Jan 2016)

Thanks for all your suggestions. So the message is suggest but don't go to hard on it. I was hoping for some inspirational ideas like "won't you like to be like entrepreneur X" or whatever.....


----------



## MrEarl (26 Jan 2016)

Tell her it will help her to make loads of money in years to come


----------



## Thirsty (26 Jan 2016)

> options for the Leaving Cert.


Same deal really, as long as you have a broad range of subjects you'll be fine. 



> From a job prospect an understanding of business or a foreign language is more important than knowing how to speak Irish or how an oxbow lake is formed.


Slightly off topic, but from a job prospect; education in and of itself is important, being able to think, plan and reason.  Every subject adds its own element to these skills.


----------



## G7979 (26 Jan 2016)

More for my own curiosity than anything, but what is she looking to take instead? 

Is it the alternative subject you object to or the lack of business? For example, if she has chosen a science subject then leave her at it, STEM is a great choice if that is where her interest lies. 

What is it about business in particular that you think is important, has she shown any interest in a future career in a business field? Early days I know but what thoughts has she about her future? 

Will not taking Business Studies at junior cycle prevent her from taking a business subject at senior level if she decided to? Others suggest it wont but safeguarding which subjects she might need for college entry is obviously important. 

Dont get too caught up in the choices, I can honestly say I have never been asked what subjects I chose at second level at any point in my career!


----------



## stephnyc (26 Jan 2016)

Tell her it's easy  or find out if any of her mates are doing it - it's your best hope unfortunately

It would be really helpful to know how the school decides the LC subjects. Mine insisted on Irish, English & Maths - with 4 optional (depending on availability). My parents asked me to take 1 science, 1 business, 1 language and any other of my own choice. I didnt know what I would do in college so this was gave me the broadest options - and I still got to choose between physics, chemistry or biology etc. That autonomy was important to me.


----------



## mtk (26 Jan 2016)

relax about it
what will be will be


----------



## seamless (26 Jan 2016)

FWIW, if I had my time again I'd ditch all the science/physics etc etc and concentrate on the business and economics subjects and apply the same criteria to my 3rd level choice. And I wouldn't bother turning up for Irish.


----------



## Leper (26 Jan 2016)

Purple said:


> Have you looked at the stuff they cover? It's like a Trade Union handbook.



Post of the Month!!!!!


----------



## Purple (27 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> Post of the Month!!!!!


Thanks!


----------



## Purple (27 Jan 2016)

taytoman said:


> Thanks for all your suggestions. So the message is suggest but don't go to hard on it. I was hoping for some inspirational ideas like "won't you like to be like entrepreneur X" or whatever.....


My younger son gets all concerned about his future; how he'll do in the Leaving Cert (he's in first year), if he'll get the points for the college course he wants even though he doesn't know what he wants to do, if he'll get a job, etc..
I tell him not to worry and that he has a realistic prospect of living to be 100 so he can change career or job or direction in life any time over the next 20 years. He can go back to college in his 20's or 30's, basically relax about his future because he has no idea of what it holds. He works hard in school so I can say that without him taking it as permission to slack off.
Lets face it, how many people posting here would do things differently if they had the chance to start over. It's crazy that our futures should be restricted by choices we make at 15 or 16 when we choose our Leaving Cert subjects.

I suppose my point is that you should let your daughter find her own way in life, make her own choices. Your job is to support her and guide her when she looks for guidance and to let her know that the path has many turns, right up to the finishing line, and that she should not be afraid to take a few of them if the road she is on is not bringing happiness. Ultimately all we can hope for for our children is that they are happy and reasonably fulfilled in life. That comes in many forms and wealth is way down the list of things that brings it.


----------



## Purple (27 Jan 2016)

Thirsty said:


> Slightly off topic, but from a job prospect; education in and of itself is important, being able to think, plan and reason.  Every subject adds its own element to these skills.


I agree completely but the most useful things I learned in school were from extra-curricular such as debating and team related activities.

Most of my education has come from books and personal research. The ability to research a subject in a structured way came from preparing for debates. I remember little of the Biology and mathematics I learned in school and being dyslexic the time I spent learning Irish and French was a complete waste of time. That said Biology gave me a keen interest in genetics and sociology but the Maths I use today I learned in work and through college.


----------



## mtk (28 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> Post of the Month!!!!!



Yes promulgated by those well known commies in our catholic schools and dept of education !!


----------



## Purple (28 Jan 2016)

mtk said:


> Yes promulgated by those well known commies in our catholic schools and dept of education !!


Commies is a bit strong. Rampant socialists and never had to work in a competitive environment or worry about losing their job because of their own performance or the general economic environment. And no, I'm not saying that they don't work hard or that they aren't skilled. I am saying that they have no idea of the pressure and worry experienced by people running a business.


----------



## cremeegg (28 Jan 2016)

mtk said:


> My daughter loves it.
> Great to know your consumer rights etc.  Loves accounts aspects
> 
> However I would not try to force your own daughter to do it . YOU will be blamed if she does not like it.



I think that this posters daughter is lucky, as in my opinion (I am a qualified teacher of Business Studies, though I do not teach it at present) the structure of the subject at JC is dreadful and more likely to put a young person off business than inspire an interest.

To offer the Op a constructive suggestion. I have a print subscription to the Economist which I deliberately leave lying about hoping my kids will pick it up from time to time. I have often seen them reading it over the cornflakes and recently the eldest took it to his room to finish some article.

This might be a bit much for a first year but may be a good idea in a year or two.


----------



## Leper (28 Jan 2016)

Purple said:


> Commies is a bit strong. Rampant socialists and never had to work in a competitive environment or worry about losing their job because of their own performance or the general economic environment. And no, I'm not saying that they don't work hard or that they aren't skilled. I am saying that they have no idea of the pressure and worry experienced by people running a business.



Commie/Rampant Socialist, I'll take the lot from Citizen Purple and Comrade MTK.  But, I did work in a competitive environment and did lose my job (perhaps not due to my performance) but in the "Economies of Scale" environment that was forced on others and me.  Oh! and I don't know pressure and worry running a business? Oh Comrade Purple, how innocent you are! Even despite your dynamic gung-ho outward appearance.  Long live the revolution! . . . and the Beards!


----------



## amtc (29 Jan 2016)

I loved bus studies....and an easy A! Put extra time to hons maths in A. Just at  thought.


----------



## Leper (29 Jan 2016)

amtc said:


> I loved bus studies....and an easy A! Put extra time to hons maths in A. Just at  thought.



Phew! For a second there I thought it was a course on those double decker vehicles with numbers 15A, 46A written high up on their front.


----------



## Purple (29 Jan 2016)

Leper said:


> Commie/Rampant Socialist, I'll take the lot from Citizen Purple and Comrade MTK.  But, I did work in a competitive environment and did lose my job (perhaps not due to my performance) but in the "Economies of Scale" environment that was forced on others and me.  Oh! and I don't know pressure and worry running a business? Oh Comrade Purple, how innocent you are! Even despite your dynamic gung-ho outward appearance.  Long live the revolution! . . . and the Beards!


I was talking about teachers, specifically those who teach business studies, not chin-curtained commissars or their supporters. The latter groups cannot all shield themselves from reality and so it will encroach on their ideology every now and then.


----------



## mtk (29 Jan 2016)

i cannot picture the 46A carrying many revolutionaries  and never heard of any in any case in bus studies syllabus


----------



## Marion (29 Jan 2016)

Purple said:


> I was talking about teachers, specifically those who teach business studies, not chin-curtained commissars or their supporters. The latter groups cannot all shield themselves from reality and so it will encroach on their ideology every now and then.




Don't shoot the messengers. 

Would you prefer that they left out some sections of the syllabus in their teaching of the subject prescribed by the Dept?

There would be some fun and games when the topic that is anathema to some would turn up on the state exam!

"Talk to Joe" would have a field day!


Marion


----------



## Leper (30 Jan 2016)

Purple said:


> My younger son gets all concerned about his future; how he'll do in the Leaving Cert (he's in first year), if he'll get the points for the college course he wants even though he doesn't know what he wants to do, if he'll get a job, etc..
> I tell him not to worry and that he has a realistic prospect of living to be 100 so he can change career or job or direction in life any time over the next 20 years. He can go back to college in his 20's or 30's, basically relax about his future because he has no idea of what it holds. He works hard in school so I can say that without him taking it as permission to slack off.
> Lets face it, how many people posting here would do things differently if they had the chance to start over. It's crazy that our futures should be restricted by choices we make at 15 or 16 when we choose our Leaving Cert subjects.
> 
> .



Here we have an indictment of what Ireland has become. A boy starts secondary school and where his character should start to shine and his personality develop he is prematurely concerned about his distance future.  But, the boy is lucky that outside of school he has somebody (Purple) who can keep him on the real direction of the rest of his life. While I would not swap my lot with that of teachers and they have a difficult job, our secondary education system has become a points race within a rat race. We have lost sight of what we were and should be. 

Before we ruin the life of thousands (perhaps millions over time?) is it time to shout stop? We're producing a conveyor belt of talented paper holding qualified humans who see little of working reality and their only experience of life is second-hand through teachers and lecturers.


----------



## Purple (1 Feb 2016)

Marion said:


> Don't shoot the messengers.
> 
> Would you prefer that they left out some sections of the syllabus in their teaching of the subject prescribed by the Dept?
> 
> ...


The problem is that the syllabus doesn't do what it says on the tin. It's not the study of business and, in the vast majority of cases, is is being delivered by people who have no experience of business.


----------



## Leper (1 Feb 2016)

I've read all the posts on the subject regarding persuasion of a teenager to choose junior cert business. We're talking about 13/14 year olds here. Most of us didn't know what we wanted to do until we could get nothing else probably on which we had reached our 20's. What if the young lady in question wanted to become an airline pilot and didn't have the ability and parents could not afford the fees  Is it time for us to step back and just leave the student decide what he/she wants rather than what we (or the teachers) want?


----------

