# Can I check if my partner's ex-wife is claiming SW Back to school allowance?



## reb30 (26 Jun 2007)

Hi Just wondering if there is any way of checking if someone gets the back to school allowance. My partner ex wife wants half school fees for their child but she gets Family income support so I assume that she gets the back to school allowance which is 180? I have checked criteria and she meets it so my partner shouldn't have to pay out half when she is not paying out anything?


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## ClubMan (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

I certainly hope and assume not - i.e. that one private individual can poke their nose into the private (e.g. _SW_) affairs of another! Is there any court order on maintenance in this situation which should clarify matters?


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## Aoileen (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

Just because she gets FIS, she doesn't automatically get the back to school allowance.

You have to fill out a long form and get it stamped by your employer and submit it to a government department in Longford for FIS. It can take a number of months to hear back from them depending on their backlog.

The back to school allowance is paid out by your community welfare officer.  You have to call to them and apply for it.  They more or less tell you there and then if your entitled to it and your cheque is issued almost straight away if you are.

Two seperate places issue these payments so they don't go hand in hand.

You could try contact the welfare officer for ex's area and ask if ex is getting the back to school allowance?  Depending on who you get, they may tell you.

Alternatively you could ring the welfare officer and ask why your ex was not getting the back to school allowance?  For some strange reason they seem to respond to queries like this on the defence (well, hang on a minute!  she never applied for it thats why shes not getting it etc. etc.)and give out information without realising!


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## Klesser (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

Maybe she can get it but does'nt because she thinks its a mother and fathers responsiblity to provide for there kids back to school needs and not the tax payers.  Just a thought


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## ClubMan (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

Many mothers and fathers in such situations are or were tax/_PRSI _payers too.


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## Klesser (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

True clubman. Im one of them myself.  The point i was trying to make is this mother might be entitled to claim it but doesnt because she feels between herself and the child/childrens father they can afford the school costs without any assistance.


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## Cashstrapped (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*



reb30 said:


> Hi Just wondering if there is any way of checking if someone gets the back to school allowance. My partner ex wife wants half school fees for their child but she gets Family income support so I assume that she gets the back to school allowance which is 180? I have checked criteria and she meets it so my partner shouldn't have to pay out half when she is not paying out anything?



How much is she looking for, I know when I send my child back to school it costs approx €500 and this is still Primary School, and this doesn't take account of school trips, unexpected other school costs during the year etc.  

I am presuming that the child lives with the mother in this case, as with all Social Welfare payments whether she gets it or not will depend on her financial circumstances and will more than likely be means tested.

As Clubman rightly pointed out, and I for one hope, it is not possible for you or your partner to be made aware of any payments she is in receipt of, she is entitled to her privacy, all this because he or indeed you would rather not pay half.....


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## gipimann (26 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

As payments under the back to school scheme are made by the Community Welfare Officer using the Dept of Social Welfare computer system, it would be a breach of the Data Protection Act to disclose details of payments made to a third party without the written permission of the customer concerned.

Not to mention invasion of privacy! CWOs should not divulge such information, no matter how the questions are worded.


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## reb30 (27 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

thanks for replies, its not a straight forward issue. They are currently going through divorce, she was claiming all sorts, no money etc but it was thrown out as she was given family home and was granted no increase in maintenance she already gets as she is well able to provide for herself. She chooses to work part time in order to qualify for FIS and also get the back to school allowance, she is out to get every penny she can from whoever will give it to her, I have no doubt she gets it, its just proving she does as she is trying to pull the wool over my partners eyes and pocket the money. Divorce is due to be finalised but she is ringing looking for money, so we think she wants to make sure she gets the money before she finally signs off on divorce, its a piddly few hundred euros but its the principal of the thing. She is a lier through and through and we just want her exposed for what she is. I may sound bitter but this is a long story with plenty of history, she can afford 4 foreign holidays a year, new car, extension to home but is claiming FIS and back to school, no justice for people like her.


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## ClubMan (27 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*



reb30 said:


> she was claiming all sorts


How do you know - since the original query was about how you could find out if she was claiming the back to school allowance?


> She chooses to work part time in order to qualify for FIS and also get the back to school allowance


 Nothing untoward in that per se.


> she is out to get every penny she can from whoever will give it to her, I have no doubt she gets it


 So why the original query then?


> Divorce is due to be finalised but she is ringing looking for money, so we think she wants to make sure she gets the money before she finally signs off on divorce, its a piddly few hundred euros but its the principal of the thing.


 Probably best to deal with this through the courts so - i.e. get a ruling on what she and her ex-husband are entitled to so that everything is clear and above board. Of course it's possible that you may not like how the court rules...


> She is a lier through and through and we just want her exposed for what she is. I may sound bitter but this is a long story with plenty of history


 Might be a good idea to try and look at the situation a bit more objectively and less emotionally?


> she can afford 4 foreign holidays a year, new car, extension to home but is claiming FIS and back to school, no justice for people like her.


 Maybe she's just good at budgeting/saving? There's nothing to say that people legitimately claiming certain _SW _payments cannot have a decent lifestyle.


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## reb30 (27 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

thanks for reply I agree with some of it, there is nothing legitamate about this woman. If being on social welfare enables you to have the lifestyle she does then I think I will give up work. She has students all year round in her house and doesn't pay tax on that income, thats how she affords everything. Sol advised today that partner only has to pay half of whats not covered by the BAck to school allowance but we are depending on her to be honest about it. ha ha


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## ClubMan (27 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

If it was me then I'd start thinking about getting legal advice on the issue.


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## evenstar (28 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

Maybe you should let her and her former husband sort this issue out as the child is theirs not yours?

You are looking out for your partners best interests, but these are the pitfalls of being with somebody who has kids with an ex.  It could wind up in arguments between you two and put all your energy into your own relationship and let him work out his own issues with the ex.  Otherwise, the ex will end up taking complete control of your life.  Conversation around your breakfast table should not be about the ex all of the time.

You will never, ever know what went on between them to let them at it.  There are 3 sides to every story - his story, her story and the truth.

Take control of your own life and if she is entitled to claim BTS, FIS or whatever, let her go for it.  No matter what, she is still the mother of your partners child and she has to rear him/her and it's an expensive business!  Every penny is needed and if she goes on 4 holidays a year, so what.  Nothing stopping you two from doing that either.

Leave it be - don't shop her as it will just come up and bite  you in the ass.  If she doesn't get what shes entitled to, your partner will end up paying for everything and then some.

Just something to think about.


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## terrysgirl33 (28 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*

She is perfectly entitled to earn money from having students in the house without paying tax under the rent-a-room scheme.

I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## ClubMan (28 Jun 2007)

Good point! Such income could obviously impact means tested allowances though.


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## SarahMc (28 Jun 2007)

Not necessarily, Bean an Ti income is disregarded for social welfare purposes.


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## ClubMan (28 Jun 2007)

OK - thanks for that.


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## reb30 (29 Jun 2007)

thanks for that. I don't get involved really, I am just asking the question on his behalf, we have 2 small children ourselves so I know how expensive children can be. As the second family I am used to having a lower standard of living than she does, but at the end of the day we are happy so no matter what she has doesn't bother me its just all the lying she does. I believe in what goes around comes around so I hope one day it all comes back on her. She lies to her own child, example when she bought brand new car 25k she told child that it was her friends giving a lend, she crashed it a few weeks after getting it and it came out that it was her car. She had to explain to him that it was her car, she looked like such an idiot, not a great way to bring up your child. I feel sorry for him.


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## reb30 (29 Jun 2007)

oh and you can only earn up to 7500 tax free from the rent a room scheme, she earns 3 times that and doesn't pay a penny in tax and claims FIS. I can't stand people who bleed the system.


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## Bronte (29 Jun 2007)

I don't mean to be rude but you sound like you're jealous.  She's really nothing to you.  Sounds like you're too involved in her life as you know so much about her.  But I may have a solution, I don't know about the back to school allowance rules, but if she is not claiming it can your husband claim it instead and then he can give it to her.  If he applies, maybe they will turn him down on the grounds that it has already been given for that child and then you'll know if she got it or not.


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## Welfarite (29 Jun 2007)

reb30 said:


> ....she earns 3 times that and doesn't pay a penny in tax and claims FIS. I can't stand people who bleed the system.


 If you have proof that she is not entitled to FIS, then report to the FIS people in Longford.


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## bacchus (29 Jun 2007)

*Re: Back to school allowance*



reb30 said:


> She chooses to work part time in order to qualify for FIS and *also get the back to school allowance*


 
you seem to already know the answer to your question phrased in the original thread's title then....


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## reb30 (29 Jun 2007)

we are depending on her to be honest about what she gets, which she isn't. My partner is going to contact the local community officer to see if he can find out. I have toyed with the idea of reporting her for many years but its too much hassle and she would know it was us. My partner wouldn't see his son if I did. She stops the access for all sorts.


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## ClubMan (29 Jun 2007)

reb30 said:


> we are depending on her to be honest about what she gets, which she isn't.


How do you know? You don't seem to have presented any actual evidence that this is the case so far. Or at least you have suggested that she is fraudulently claiming the back to school allowance having originally asked how you can check if she is even claiming it at all. All very confusing.  Sounds to me like you are letting your emotions severly cloud your judgement in looking at this situation objectively.


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## mo3art (29 Jun 2007)

Regardless of whether she is claiming FIS, BTSA or any other allowance that she is entitled to, your partner has an obligation to support his child equally.  This means that he is obliged (where possible) to pay for half of all the child related costs.  I say "where possible" as this is dependent on him having the means to pay it.

So no matter what payments she receives or how much she earns he still has to provide for his children.

As Clubman has mentioned above, you are allowing your emotions to cloud your judgement.  You should also remember that maintenance and access are treated as 2 separate issues by the courts and legally your partner's ex cannot stop access for non-payment of maintenance.


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## Seanies32 (1 Jul 2007)

mo3art said:


> Regardless of whether she is claiming FIS, BTSA or any other allowance that she is entitled to, your partner has an obligation to support his child equally.  This means that he is obliged (where possible) to pay for half of all the child related costs.  I say "where possible" as this is dependent on him having the means to pay it.
> 
> So no matter what payments she receives or how much she earns he still has to provide for his children.
> 
> As Clubman has mentioned above, you are allowing your emotions to cloud your judgement.  You should also remember that maintenance and access are treated as 2 separate issues by the courts and legally your partner's ex cannot stop access for non-payment of maintenance.



Yes they are seperate but little is done about withdrawal of access from my personal experience whereas non payment of maintenance is treated more seriously, with eventual imprisonment if ignored.

As you say he should pay 1/2 child related costs. Well then if the mother receives BTS payments that is relevant to 1/2 school costs. If she receives the €180, €90 should be taken of those costs for the father.

The BTS payment is a child related payment so should be taken off the child related costs.


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## reb30 (2 Jul 2007)

Access and maintenance are 2 different issues in most peoples eyes, but not in this case. My partners ex is only concerned with how much money she can get from him and the state. She blackmailed him into clearing her loans, credit cards even signing over the house to her, she stopped access until he agreed, he has gone months without seeing his child, depends how badly she needs a babysitter. The courts have been involved and she just gets a telling off for denying access but nothing gets done. you have to wait 3 months before courts will hear your case so everytime she stopped access he would have to wait 3 months before anything was done, it had terrible effect on my partner. Now as the child is older she doesn't do it as much because he knows when he is seeing his dad but when he was 2-5, she did it all the time. If she really needed the money we would find a way of getting it but the fact is she is earning income and not declaring to tax office and also claiming FIS and BTS because her tax paying job is part time. We know she receives these payments, all members of her family have houses from the social for unmarried mothers and have boyfriends living with them, she is the only one who does actually work and pay for a mortgage which is admirable I suppose but by claiming benefits she is not entilted to (because of her extra income) is just not right. People always say butt out but at the end of the day I work hard and pay taxes and I don't see why people like this can get away with it.


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## ClubMan (2 Jul 2007)

reb30 said:


> My partners ex is only concerned with how much money she can get from ... the state.


If she does this legitimately then so be it. You have not shown that she is actually doing anything wrong so far. You originally asked how to check if she was claiming certain payments but then seemed to make your own mind up that she was.


> She blackmailed him into clearing her loans, credit cards even signing over the house to her, she stopped access until he agreed, he has gone months without seeing his child, depends how badly she needs a babysitter.


This is not on and based on the experience of a family member with the family courts I would agree with you about how little they often do and how slow they can be do deal with such matters.


> If she really needed the money we would find a way of getting it but the fact is she is earning income and not declaring to tax office and also claiming FIS and BTS because her tax paying job is part time. We know she receives these payments


You mean since you posted your original query you ascertained that she does claim _BTS_? How did you do this?


> all members of her family have houses from the social for unmarried mothers and have boyfriends living with them


Surely this is totally irrelevant to your specific situation and your partner's issues with his ex-wife?


> she is the only one who does actually work and pay for a mortgage which is admirable I suppose but by claiming benefits she is not entilted to (because of her extra income) is just not right.


Do you know for a fact that she is claiming benefits/allowances to which she is not entitled?


> People always say butt out but at the end of the day I work hard and pay taxes and I don't see why people like this can get away with it.


If you suspect fraud then report if you see fit.


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## Seanies32 (3 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> If you suspect fraud then report if you see fit.



But, and I agree that welfare/tax dodgers should be reported, is who will suffer for this. The childrens mother will lose the FIS or BTS as she wouldn't be entitled to these. and she will have to repay them. Her employer is not going to increase her wages so who will she look to compensate for the loss of income? Her ex? It really doesn't do much for the OP


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## ClubMan (3 Jul 2007)

Seanies32 said:


> The childrens mother will lose the FIS or BTS as she wouldn't be entitled to these. and she will have to repay them.


We don't know that this is necessarily the case in this specific situation.

Regardless of this I don't really believe, in our current social situation, that there are cases in which fraud or turning a blind eye is justified as you seem to be suggesting.

In any case I doubt that the original poster is worried about landing the partner's ex-wife in an awkward situation.


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## reb30 (3 Jul 2007)

We know that she is claiming FIS because she declared this on her affadavit of means for their divorce. My partners solicitor advised that she would more than likely be claiming the BTS allowance but we have no way of proving this. He will probably end up paying half of whatever she says she spent. My partner submitted 3 years of bank statements, loans, credit card bills to her side while going through the divorce, its called discovery, she on the other hand never produced one statement, the only thing we saw was her bank balance which was 8k. And that was what she was willing to declare. my partners sol said to actually get to see her statements etc for the last 3 years would take along time in court and probably up to 25K in fees. I would love to drag her through the courts and expose her but I don't have a spare 25k. It will cost us 10k anyway because she dragged it out a bit thinking my partner and I  had money somewhere. She is getting legal aid also so she wasn't concerned how long it took. Its seems if you have money you can fight your case in this country but if not, people get away with all sorts.


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## ClubMan (3 Jul 2007)

reb30 said:


> My partners solicitor advised that she would more than likely be claiming the BTS allowance but we have no way of proving this.


That's not what you said earlier - several times. Very confusing stuff... 


reb30 said:


> but the fact is she is earning income and not declaring to tax office and also claiming FIS and BTS because her tax paying job is part time.





reb30 said:


> She chooses to work part time in order to qualify for FIS and also get the back to school allowance,
> 
> ...
> 
> she can afford 4 foreign holidays a year, new car, extension to home but is claiming FIS and back to school, no justice for people like her.


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## Seanies32 (4 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Regardless of this I don't really believe, in our current social situation, that there are cases in which fraud or turning a blind eye is justified as you seem to be suggesting.
> 
> In any case I doubt that the original poster is worried about landing the partner's ex-wife in an awkward situation.



Wasn't suggesting that at all. Of course if she is getting FIS or other payments unjustly because she isn't declaring some income as was suggested by reb 30 she should be reported.

The worst case for the mother will be that she will have to repay a small weekly amount and lose her FIS. But I'm just saying chances are the mother will then look for extra maintenance as her income will be down if she loses FIS.

OP probably isn't worried about landing the ex wife in bother and shouldn't be if she's claiming FIS when she isn't entitled but it will probably have repercussions for her and her partner.


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## nelly (5 Jul 2007)

Agreed - i hope now as its her private affairs. First off it seems like you really are jealous of this girl -that your children have a "lower standard" but seriously they would seem to be miles better off than her own to have 2 parents in love with one another under the one roof - thats the best scenario i think. 

It strikes me as strange that your partner would have 2 children with you before getting a divorce - a mess. It also strikes me strange that you would have wanted to have 2 children with a guy with so much unresolved family dramas. 
Its seems you have always worked (as one wage these days hardly supports one family never mind two) and she has had a choice whether to or not to work that you are envious,at the end of the day that is no basis to go shopping someone. She is playing the hand she was dealt same as the rest of us have to in life.

Personally i think you need to butt out and leave your partner and his ex sort this out as they see fit for themselves and their child - he should be able to take into consideration all his children in this without your input. You do not have a say in their divorce even though you share children with him.


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## pc7 (5 Jul 2007)

Its a tough situation all round but by reading the threads your putting an awful lot of effort, thought and emotion into the whole thing.  You mentioned its the principal and not the money, they are his kiddies too and perhaps instead of giving her the money if he went in and bought the school books or uniforms or something like that directly its the kids definately benefitting.  You've got to give full heartedly and positively or it will eat you up and lifes too short!


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## reb30 (5 Jul 2007)

This reply is for Nelly, just wanted to know what planet you are on, it takes 4 of the last five years apart to get a divorce in this country so you are saying my partner should have waited 5 years to get in a relationship with someone else before he could consider having more children. Why would it be strange for someone to fall in love and want to have a family, plenty of people have unresolved family issues, thats life, you must have a perfect family...I hope that your husband or wife doesn't walk out on you and leave you and you meet someone else within 5 years but you hold back because you are not divorced. How sad would that be. Its hard that a marriage doesn't work out but poeple move on. If I was to report her its not because she has a choice to work and I don't. I work part time. I don't claim social welfare, which I could because myself and partner are not married but I choose not too because I am not that type of person. I would report anyone who I thought was claiming falsely. Reason I haven't reported her to date is because I am so close to the situation. I wouldn't give a second thought for anyone else who was claiming falsely. 

Clubman, thanks for pointing out how confused I am. Really helpful. 
this is a very difficult situation that my partner and I have to live with daily, its been a hard 6 years of dealing with his ex and her tantrums and demands, its hard not to get involved, she involves everyone, tells everyone her business. We have both been assualted by her, verbally abused countless occasions so for anyone who says I am too close to situtation and I should take a step back, its just not possible. We have gardai reports on her so one more assualt or threat from her she will be charged so at the moment she is being friendly but it never lasts. anyway thanks to everyone for replying, we are dealing with it as best we can. Just have to believe what goes around comes around.


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## ClubMan (5 Jul 2007)

OK - I am moving this thread to _Letting Off Steam_ since it is just turning into a rant by the original poster against other contributors and the situation in which she finds herself rather than a case of somebody actually looking for abd being open to advice and solutions.


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## nelly (5 Jul 2007)

Your issue so seems to be that your husbands ex-wife does not hold your standards as regards claiming allowances that she may well be entitled to as you do. And that she seems far better off financially than you and bringing up your partners and her child has not left her completely on the poverty line - she has every right to the good quality of life you portray her to have. If you don't claim what you are legally and allowed then thats your decision however she makes her own decision.

Your partner needs to get his stuff sorted but if you hit it off badly with his "scorned" ex-wife you will probably be making his and your lives even worse long term - she is going to be in his life for probably the next 10 years and thereafter for fleeting occasions. Poking your nose into her SW claims is not on.

I fell in love too funnily enough , except with a guy with no strings attached (and that was no accident) and i live in the real world which is straightforward for most of the time.


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## MOB (5 Jul 2007)

"She blackmailed him into clearing her loans, credit cards even signing over the house to her, she stopped access until he agreed....."

"The courts have been involved and she just gets a telling off for denying access but nothing gets done. "

"This is not on and based on the experience of a family member with the family courts I would agree with you about how little they often do and how slow they can be do deal with such matters."

This is a big, big issue.

The refusal of the primary carer\custodial parent to honour access arrangements is a serious problem in family law courts all over the world.   The courts seem to be powerless to impose effective sanctions.  I have some ideas on how the courts might more creatively manage such problems, and I have at various times had a sort of half-formed idea to start doing more work in this area, thinking to myself that it is an area where a lawyer who goes the extra mile might well be able to make a significant difference for his clients  (and, to be absolutely frank, be able to charge a hefty premium for doing so).   But I have always come to the conclusion that the negative aspects of working in this area are just too much.  Maybe someday.


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## shootingstar (5 Jul 2007)

reb30 said:


> This reply is for Nelly, just wanted to know what planet you are on, it takes 4 of the last five years apart to get a divorce in this country so you are saying my partner should have waited 5 years to get in a relationship with someone else before he could consider having more children. Why would it be strange for someone to fall in love and want to have a family, plenty of people have unresolved family issues, thats life, you must have a perfect family...I hope that your husband or wife doesn't walk out on you and leave you and you meet someone else within 5 years but you hold back because you are not divorced. How sad would that be. Its hard that a marriage doesn't work out but poeple move on. If I was to report her its not because she has a choice to work and I don't. I work part time. I don't claim social welfare, which I could because myself and partner are not married but I choose not too because I am not that type of person. I would report anyone who I thought was claiming falsely. Reason I haven't reported her to date is because I am so close to the situation. I wouldn't give a second thought for anyone else who was claiming falsely.
> 
> .



...*claps*... well said


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