# PTSB Significantly Cut All Deposit Rates, Leave Mortgage Rates Static



## Lightning (9 Mar 2015)

PTSB who once offered some of the best deposit rates, have cut all their deposit rates again. 

Full list of the variable rate cuts here:
[broken link removed]

The fixed rate cuts are on the relevant pages on the PTSB website and in the best buy thread here. 

Anyone on a variable deposit product with PTSB should switch. 

The cuts across the board are significant. Sad to see deposit rates continue to march downwards. 

No relief for high rate paying SVR holders. Greater margin for the bank.


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## llgon (9 Mar 2015)

CiaranT said:


> Anyone on a variable deposit product with PTSB should switch.



I'm tempted, NationwideUK and Rabodirect rates look good on the Bestbuys.  However judging by previous form I'd expect that they'll be cutting soon.  No competition for deposits amongst the banks.


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## Boyd (10 Mar 2015)

Jaysus those are some serious cuts: 

*[broken link removed]
0.85%* *on €0.01 to €50,000

Utterly pointless!!


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## rob oyle (10 Mar 2015)

username123 said:


> Jaysus those are some serious cuts:
> 
> *[broken link removed]
> 0.85%* *on €0.01 to €50,000
> ...



That's what I noticed too... their regular saver account rate now is hardly worth opening an account for!

PTSB has been an outlier in terms of High Street banks here, but with those reductions in rates, they move back into the mainstream rates offered. This takes the pressure off KBC and Rabo to maintain their rates so some slippage can be expected there now too. The Bank of Mattress would be as good a choice as what's on offer out there...


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## Lightning (10 Mar 2015)

llgon said:


> NationwideUK and Rabodirect rates look good on the Bestbuys. However judging by previous form I'd expect that they'll be cutting soon.



Yeah, probably Nationwide UK (Ireland), RaboDirect, KBC and Leeds Building Society Ireland will follow suit. 

That said, these banks will probably still all offer a better return than PTSB for many of their products even if they get again. For example, Nationwide UK (Ireland) currently pay 4.00% AER variable with their regular saver product, PTSB pay 1.75% AER variable. Even if Nationwide UK (Ireland) cut their rate, it is unlikely to be cut to the PTSB level.


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## Audi_Driver (10 Mar 2015)

username123 said:


> Jaysus those are some serious cuts:
> 
> *[broken link removed]
> 0.85%* *on €0.01 to €50,000
> ...



I remember opening this a/c in November 2013 and the interest rate at the time was a very respectable 2%. 

Interest rates have made a serious decline since then, then not to mention the increase in dirt. 

Will we ever see an increase in interest rates in the near future ?


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## Lightning (10 Mar 2015)

It is not likely that deposit rates will increase for quite some time, further cuts are likely. Deposit rates are still on a downward trend due to banks repairing their balance sheets, low ECB rates, low bond yields and less competition.


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## The Ghoul (11 Mar 2015)

It's difficult to know what to do in this low interest rate/high DIRT environment with possibly rising inflation. I'm just surprised that the State Savings rates haven't been cut for a while, I'm seriously considering cashing in my 100k holding of prize bonds and "locking in" to a fixed term product.

3 year bond - 0.83% AER net
4 year - 0.99%
5.5 year - 1.24%
10 year - 2.26%

I have been filling my boots with the 10 year but am not far from the max holding for the current issue. The max holding size for 10 year bonds used to be 250k per issue, now it's 120k.


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## Lightning (11 Mar 2015)

The Ghoul said:


> possibly rising inflation



Inflation is close to zero right now. 



The Ghoul said:


> I'm just surprised that the State Savings rates haven't been cut for a while



The State Savings rates are, once again, totally unjustifiable in relation to sovereign bond yields and deposit rates. 

3/4 year Irish sovereign bonds pay around zero but yet the NTMA is paying 0.83% to 0.99% to State Savings holders. 
10 year Irish sovereign bonds pay 0.811% but yet the NTMA is paying 2.26% to State Savings holders.


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## ardmacha (16 Mar 2015)

CiaranT said:


> Yeah, probably Nationwide UK (Ireland), RaboDirect, KBC and Leeds Building Society Ireland will follow suit.
> 
> That said, these banks will probably still all offer a better return than PTSB for many of their products even if they get again. For example, Nationwide UK (Ireland) currently pay 4.00% AER variable with their regular saver product, PTSB pay 1.75% AER variable. Even if Nationwide UK (Ireland) cut their rate, it is unlikely to be cut to the PTSB level.



Nationwide may still have some value in the Regular saver but their other rates have been cut hugely and are no longer much different than anyone else. Changed times indeed.


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## Lightning (16 Mar 2015)

ardmacha said:


> Nationwide may still have some value in the Regular saver



May? Nationwide UK (Ireland) certainly do still offer a good return in the regular saver product category. 4.00% AER variable is an amazing return in a time of zero inflation and negative bond yields.



ardmacha said:


> but their other rates have been cut hugely



It was sad to see a massive 0.50% cut today in most of the Nationwide UK (Ireland) variable rate products. 



ardmacha said:


> and are no longer much different than anyone else. Changed times indeed.



The Nationwide UK (Ireland) term deposit rates are better than anyone else in the 2 year category. Their 2 year product offers instant access subject to a 90 day interest penalty. Although KBC have similar rates, for similar terms, this decent exit clause, along with a market leading rate, makes the product a stand out product in the term deposit product category.


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## ardmacha (16 Mar 2015)

CiaranT said:


> May? Nationwide UK (Ireland) certainly do still offer a good return in the regular saver product category. 4.00% AER variable is an amazing return in a time of zero inflation and negative bond yields.



I had one of these. When it matured they said I couldn't have another one. Has this been the experience of other people?


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## Lightning (16 Mar 2015)

Yeah, you are only allowed open this product once.


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## rob oyle (20 Aug 2015)

The rates carnage at PTSB continues today!

I always said to myself that if I couldn't earn 2% on my money sitting on deposit, I'd do something else with it. Don't know what that 'something else' is right now but PTSB obviously don't want it anyway, even in the form of regular savings!


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## Connard (20 Aug 2015)

rob oyle said:


> The rates carnage at PTSB continues today!
> 
> I always said to myself that if I couldn't earn 2% on my money sitting on deposit, I'd do something else with it. Don't know what that 'something else' is right now but PTSB obviously don't want it anyway, even in the form of regular savings!



They seem to be dropping them every 3 months. They went from having the best rates on the market a few years ago to having the worst or close to it.


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## Lightning (20 Aug 2015)

The PTSB rate cuts have been savage. The biggest cuts have been focused on their instant access products, notice account products and regular saver products. Hopefully, a lot of people with those products move their money elsewhere.

PTSB still, for now, have the most competitive current account product. PTSB are still not too far off the market leader with their 1-3 year term deposit rates.


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## Ryan (26 Aug 2015)

I will be moving €25k to KBC very shortly. This morning I got a letter informing me of the maturity of my Interst first account which was 2.19% 12 months ago. This year its 0.85%.


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## DMcL1971 (26 Aug 2015)

I started moving my savings out of PTSB yesterday. I'll keep the current account but I'm not leaving my savings with them.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Aug 2015)

CiaranT said:


> The PTSB rate cuts have been savage. The biggest cuts have been focused on their instant access products, notice account products and regular saver products. Hopefully, a lot of people with those products move their money elsewhere.
> 
> PTSB still, for now, have the most competitive current account product. PTSB are still not too far off the market leader with their 1-3 year term deposit rates.



The Key Point to understand here is that current accounts are expensive to provide and maintain. They can only provide them free of charge if some other customers are subsidising them. There is a review on in the UK at the moment, which will probably ban free current accounts as not in the interests of customers. 

Brendan


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## ardmacha (26 Aug 2015)

The only good thing left to say about PTSB is that they give reasonable notice of changes. I will leave the regular saver close to the max with a modest monthly contribution and seek a home for the rest. 



Brendan Burgess said:


> The Key Point to understand here is that current accounts are expensive to provide and maintain. They can only provide them free of charge if some other customers are subsidising them. There is a review on in the UK at the moment, which will probably ban free current accounts as not in the interests of customers.



In some of the commentary in the media, people don't fully make the connection between "free" banking and interest rates. If interest rates are a bit higher the bank profits from the money in the accounts e.g. if rates were 5% then a €500 min would mean €25 min of interest foregone (and probably twice that on average) , enough to run the account without further charge. If on demand accounts have an interest rate of 0.5% then there is nothing to fund the running of the current account, even with a big minimum. In this environment, "free" current accounts are thing of the past, alas.


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## llgon (27 Aug 2015)

ardmacha said:


> The only good thing left to say about PTSB is that they give reasonable notice of changes. I will leave the regular saver close to the max with a modest monthly contribution and seek a home for the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the commentary in the media, people don't fully make the connection between "free" banking and interest rates. If interest rates are a bit higher the bank profits from the money in the accounts e.g. if rates were 5% then a €500 min would mean €25 min of interest foregone (and probably twice that on average) , enough to run the account without further charge. If on demand accounts have an interest rate of 0.5% then there is nothing to fund the running of the current account, even with a big minimum. In this environment, "free" current accounts are thing of the past, alas.



You need to bear in mind that PTSB also pay interest on a certain amount of the balance in the current account, currently 1% gross on the first €1,000. Not a lot but still costing them a significant amount when all customers' accounts are totalled I'd imagine. This rate used to be higher and was on the first €1,500 so I don't think they were ever benefitting as outlined in the previous post.  I'm surprised that PTSB have not removed this benefit but they are obviously still keen on attracting customers to the free current account despite the fact that it is rumoured to be closing to new customers soon.

I moved all my deposits from PTSB to Rabodirect last week except for my regular saver accounts and am glad I have done so now.


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## DMcL1971 (27 Aug 2015)

llgon said:


> You need to bear in mind that PTSB also pay interest on a certain amount of the balance in the current account, currently 1% gross on the first €1,000.



PTSB's current account still pays 1% on the first 1500.


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## llgon (28 Aug 2015)

DMcL1971 said:


> PTSB's current account still pays 1% on the first 1500.


Sorry, misread info on website. Need an eye test. Reinforces the point though.


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## theresa1 (29 Aug 2015)

I disagree "free" current accounts are a thing of the past. Yes it is moving in this direction but at the same time people have more choice with start up company's busy developing new apps for example.

At the moment you can still go to PTSB or EBS and run your current account totally FREE.


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## Lightning (29 Aug 2015)

DMcL1971 said:


> PTSB's current account still pays 1% on the first 1500.



Yeah, on their new customer current account product only. The maximum payout is just 15 EUR per year at this rate. 

You can bet that the interest payment will be a thing of the past, for new customers anyway, when PTSB change their current account product offering in apparently in September. 



theresa1 said:


> At the moment you can still go to PTSB or EBS and run your current account totally FREE.



You can run a free day-to-day banking current account with Ulster, AIB, EBS and PTSB if you copy with their respective T&C's. BoI and KBC offer no way out of the fees with their standard product. 



theresa1 said:


> Yes it is moving in this direction but at the same time people have more choice with start up company's busy developing new apps for example.



In the years to come, some sort of start up global or pan European app-only bank has the potential to disrupt the current account market. There are a few companies tying to do this but it is difficult for them to match the large service offering that full service retail banks offer. That said, it is surely a case of when and not if an app-only bank launches a service akin to a current account. 



theresa1 said:


> I disagree "free" current accounts are a thing of the past.



I see it as been difficult for regulators to stop the cross subsidation of current account product offerings. Many companies have loss leaders.


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## theresa1 (29 Aug 2015)

Sorry, yes I didn't mention Ulster because of the high €3,000 and AIB because of the €2,500 minimum balance.
It will be interesting when An Post launches it's new current account product.


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## DMcL1971 (29 Aug 2015)

Though current accounts do cost a bank money to provide, they are still the best way of attracting customers. Once they have a customers current account business they can then sell them their profitable products like loans, credit cards and mortgages. Even if a customer is not interested in these products the bank can persuade you to give them your saving, which provides them with their capital. It is a lot easier to sell your product to an existing customer.

I see free current accounts as a loss leader that allows them to sell their more profitable products.

Also, I can't see the provision of current accounts services as being a huge cost to them. It's not as if current accounts are new and have cost them a fortune to roll them out, it is just the same service that they have always offered. In fact it should cost them less to offer current account banking then it did in the past seeing as how the majority of day-to-day banking is now carried out online and using direct debit and standing orders. No more handling paper cheques, drafts or statements. It also allowed them to close branches and reduce staff. I know that it means that they have had to increase IT but surely that was coming anyway and it is easier to manage their business centrally through computer technology rather than manage tons of paper and staff.


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## roker (1 Oct 2015)

I was shocked to notice my Instant Access savings account is now 0.05%  the money was transferred to this from the INBS which gave a decent rate. I have now started to draw it down and transfer to Ulster banks saving account, but I can only transfer max €1,000 a month, it takes time and it will only accept max €15,000


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## DMcL1971 (1 Oct 2015)

roker said:


> I was shocked to notice my Instant Access savings account is now 0.05%  the money was transferred to this from the INBS which gave a decent rate. I have now started to draw it down and transfer to Ulster banks saving account, but I can only transfer max €1,000 a month, it takes time and it will only accept max €15,000



And that PTSB Instant Access rate will drop further to 0.25% on the 20th of this month.


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## roker (1 Oct 2015)

My statement says 0.05% now, is this a misprint?


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## DMcL1971 (1 Oct 2015)

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the PTSB Instant Access account it seems that what you have is an INBS Instant Access account from when PTSB took over. You are correct, that account is currently 0.05%.

You can find an up to date list of all PTSB interest rates here  https://www.permanenttsb.ie/media/p...ates/permanent-tsb-Deposit-Interest-Rates.pdf


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## Ryan (11 Oct 2015)

The "Bonus" on the Booster Bonus is being cut in half to 0.5% in the new year so I'll be moving the vast majority of my remaining savings out in January. I don't want to leave them completely but not having large deposits there any longer.


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## moneybox (12 Oct 2015)

roker said:


> I was shocked to notice my Instant Access savings account is now 0.05%


 
At the way these interest rates are dropping, I fear banks will soon start charging us to keep our money with them.


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## Lightning (12 Oct 2015)

moneybox said:


> At the way these interest rates are dropping, I fear banks will soon start charging us to keep our money with them.



Negative interest rates on deposit accounts or bank charges on deposit accounts would be deeply unpopular. There are only a small number of global examples of banks adopting this approach with retail customers. At this stage, it seems unlikely that things will go that far.


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## moneybox (12 Oct 2015)

CiaranT said:


> Negative interest rates on deposit accounts or bank charges on deposit accounts would be deeply unpopular. There are only a small number of global examples of banks adopting this approach with retail customers. At this stage, it seems unlikely that things will go that far.



How lower can you go than 0.05%................0.00%


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## Protocol (30 Oct 2015)

It's only now I'm realising the scale of deposit rate cuts.

I have an online saver account.

Nov 2014 = cut to 1.75%

Four cuts during 2015.

By Oct 2015 = 0.25%


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## Lightning (31 Oct 2015)

Yeah, the cuts have been savage to the PTSB Online Instant Access product. Hopefully, most customers have switched.


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