# What to do? Mortgage as only debt but it's a big one.



## cufroige (18 Apr 2013)

I bought an apt in 2000 & lived there until I met my husband (Now seperated) and moved out in 2003 to live with him. I rented that apt and it paid for itself and all associated fees. 

2006, we got a mortgage to build and so we did. 

2008, Remortgaged the apt, interest only for 2 years to co-invest in another property with the intention of renovating and either leasing or selling.

2009. I became unemployed. Went back to college. 

2010, marriage collapsed. He became unemployed & Moved to UK in pursuit of work. Payments on PPR stopped & went into arrears. 

2010 Interest only arrangement on the Apt ceased and full pymt exceeded the rental income, it goes into arrears. 

2012. Sold PPR and cleared the debt with €12 to spare. 
Tested the market for the Apt value €82k. Mortgage €250k

Did the MARP and were offered a LOV but we didn't accept as it was unsustainable. We asked to negotiate a different arrangement but they said they wouldn't negotiate further until we made some payment. Which we didn't because we cant.


2013. March: Send a letter to bank to express desire to voluntary surrender. As of yet no response. I called today and requested call back, go none but discovered our case has moved from collections to recovery dept. 

April: I recieve news that our share in the property we co invested in 2008 from the proceeds of remortgaged apt (€100k investment) is bought for €10k. 

This means I have €5k coming to me soon. 
I have no savings. 
I owe €3k on a car. Other than that I have no other liabilities (no CC debt/no overdraft, no loans... I literally shut everything down in 2009)

May: I finish college and almost sure I have employment secured. For the past 2 years, I've been living off the generosity of my family and my partner and working hard to get to where I'm at now... The only graduate in my year with employment almost certain. This is solely because I've spent the last 2 years volunteering and networking in my field to get my required professional hours and accreditation. 

It won't be a massive wage, just enough to support myself.

I reckon there is €170k shortfall staring me in the face when I give the keys back to the bank. I'm fearing personal insolvency as I'm afraid they'll milk whatever wage I do get. I don't know yet what I'll be earning. It will be entry level anyway, hardly enough to have anything left over to contribute to them.

UK/NI Bankruptcy has been suggested to me, but I want to work and have worked hard to get my foot in where I'm at now. My moving away just defeats that whole excercise! 

I'm wondering can I negotiate with the bank anyway to come to an aggreement and what would be a sensible and non punitive agreement for me to negotiate? 

I got a tenant in there last Sept last year but her rent only just serviced the cost of getting a tenant, I had outstanding mgmt fees and had to get new appliances and refurbish a bit. She's now moving out next week! I'm wondering whether to get a new tennant or lock it up, close esb and water accounts/service and send back the keys to bank. I would only get €750 rent pm from it. €200pm of that has to pay for mgmt fees and I have NO kitty for upkeep etc which I'd have to factor in, so the most I could afford to pay off a mortgage of €1150pm PLUS +€24,000 arrears is €475-500 pm. 


That's like trying to fill the grand canyon with tic tacs.... hopeless!! 


What is in store for me? I'm hoping life begins at 40!

(p.s. soon to be ex Hubby has no intention of paying anything. ever.)


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## Bronte (19 Apr 2013)

Your post is very hard to follow. What is LOV.  When you get the 5K I suggest you use it to pay off the car loan.  Currently you have no income so now is the time to try and get the bank to take it off you and write off the shortfall.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Apr 2013)

Hi 

I found it a bit difficult to follow as well. 

Is this your current position? 

Apartment worth €82k; Mortgage €250k - Lender ; interest rate; rent

PPR and investment sold at a profit. 

Where are you living now? Why not live in the apartment? 

Why do you want to hand back the keys? If you can service the mortgage , you should do so? The value of the property is not particularly relevant.


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## a-tax-payer (20 Apr 2013)

Best thing is to move into apartment and come to a payment schedule with the lender - forget about the negative equity.
You sold two properties at a small profit (by loading up debt on the original apartment). You cant have it both ways.
The taxpayer shouldnt be expected to fund your shortfall without consequences for you. 

Also Pass on all details of the ex hubby to the Lender and tax office so they can chase him up too.


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## cufroige (24 Apr 2013)

Apologies. I wrote that in a mess. I'm so confused. But I've been misunderstood. 

I made NO profit anywhere!!

I sold ppr with *twelve euro* in change, it barely wiped it's face! I invested (badly) 100k in a property that has gone bust and I am only getting €5k of that money back.

I agree with using it to pay off the car.  

'can't have it both ways'?????

I can't live in the Apt because 
It's in Dublin and I have work lined up in west Clare. 
The repayments are €1150 per month, I couldn't afford that 
I have a dog, no pets allowed. 
(and no, re-homing my dog is not an option)

Such a mess. I feel like giving up, seriously. Very bad day today... Not sure I can cope


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## cufroige (24 Apr 2013)

And That 12 euro to spare was after the mortgage was cleared on ppr. I lost my entire savings in that property as well


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## Cantalia (24 Apr 2013)

What is MARP and LOV??? Please don't despair. This situ is not at all as bad as others I often hear of. But of course it weighs hugely on you, especially on the back of a failed marriage. Pls take heart, ultimately you have circa 200k in debt, but you are a free agent, that is no dependants, you are on the cusp of a new career, you are super to have worked your way into a job in Clare. Calm down. So what if you give back the keys and all related documentation in jingle mail. Then you will owe them what you owe them. May I suggest hiring a solicitor such as Anthony Joyce of Francis Street, who will take his fee from a forced sale agreed to by the bank. He might also be able to help you negotiate severing the joint and severally held mortgage thereby making the bank chase the ex husband for his fair share, and you will be left with an agreement for an amount over twenty or thirty years, and then you can decide if you want to do a personal insolvency Irish style or not. Please have some sense, there is no shame in the personal I solvency, the whole country will be at it. You are young starting again as you are, even if you don't see it now.  You have come so far now after everything, don't falter at the final furlong.


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## Bronte (25 Apr 2013)

cufroige said:


> Apologies. I wrote that in a mess. I'm so confused. But I've been misunderstood.
> 
> 
> Such a mess. I feel like giving up, seriously. Very bad day today... Not sure I can cope


 
Hope you're feeling better today Cufroige. As the previous poster said you've not in the worst situtation and all this debt and a marriage breakdown is bound to take it's toll. At the end of the day this debt is never going to be repaid by you so you have to stop worrying about it. It's the worrying about it that is eating you up.  

Look at all the good things happening to you, you've finished your education next month and unbelievable you've work lined up in one of the most beautiful parts of Ireland. Both of those are quite some achievement when you're going through such a difficult patch in life and difficult periods happen to everyone. With the 5K you'll own your car outright and you've then 2K to help you with the moving costs to Clare. I suggest you concentrate now on your final exams and forget about the bank and in the back of your mind think of how good it will be to move West and leave all the baggage behind in your current location.


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## cufroige (25 Apr 2013)

Thank you both. I'm better today, yesterday I let the frustration of these last few weeks get the better of me.  You are both right and I agree, my situation is a walk in the park in comparison to others, I know that. I'm very nearly there in terms of what I've been ploughing towards. 
I can't help but feel a bit uncertain about Ireland at the moment. Is it just me or are we headed for the swanny?

I can't get the bank to call me back anyway, whatever kind of strategy that is. 

MARP= Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process
LOV= Letter of Variation


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## T&R (28 Apr 2013)

I would agree with Catalia in that you need to step back from the situation yourself and with a clear head look at your options. Engage with a PIP once they are up and running. Right now concentrate on your final exams.


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## cufroige (27 Nov 2013)

Thank you


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## cufroige (27 Nov 2013)

*Considering Irish Bankruptcy. Impact on (un cooperative) Ex Husband?*

Hello..

I posted earlier this year in a state of overwhelm over what I was going to do about my situation. I'm now considering bankruptcy, in Ireland.


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## Bronte (28 Nov 2013)

You're very conflicted. If you want to get on with your life, you need to forget about him and move on. And you need to forget about what might have been, forget about the property he bought in his own name etc. It's quite clear from your post that you have not let go. 

Financial advice. Irish bankruptcy. Less than 1K. Can you confirm 140K NE plus 31 arrears, making 170K plus expenses. Have you paid PRTB, NPPR, household charge and LPT? What is the rent? What is your income (as you may not be eligible for bankruptcy, but may have to go via one of the insolvency routes. . 

What discussions have you had with the bank? Will they allow you to sell it?

As for your ex, if the bank go after him, well that's his problem, hasn't he left you all this time with 'your' problem.  But he as an adult signed the remortgage document, and he as an adult knew what he was doing.  Between you we've at least 3 properties mentioned.  So that's experienced people.  Why should he contact you, and why would you take any abuse from him on the phone, you mentioned furious.  Just change your number.


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## cufroige (28 Nov 2013)

Hi Bronte, thank you.


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## cufroige (28 Nov 2013)

...


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## Gerry Canning (28 Nov 2013)

Cufroige; 
The Personal Insolvency People are up and running.I strongly feel you need their advice on realistic options. They will at least give you some  clarity.
The local one I send people to is Ryan Stewart 085888531. Give him a ring , say you spoke with me . If you find him helpful please let me know.


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## Bronte (28 Nov 2013)

cufroige said:


> I can confirm the NE as 140k and arrears as 31k currently. All taxes etc are paid. The rent is 795 pm. Management fees are 340 per month from that, with a proposed €400pm to the bank.
> 
> . This year and to date my monthly income has not exceeded €1400,
> There is no excess income after my living expenses,
> ...


 
Quite clearly the mortgage is unsustainable, and you're broke, and on minimum income, or thereabouts. Also a PIP has told you to go bankrupty. I think that's excellent advice for you. Especially now while you are self employed. 

I think your bank is mad to take 400 Euro a month, instead of taking the property. Why don't you suggest it to them, and agree an orderly sale in return for them writing off the debt. You paying the 400 Euro is only you delaying the end game for yourself. 

No idea how bankruptcy affects your role in the NGO. But I'm sure another poster might know. Bankruptcy doesn't mean you can't be employed.


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## cufroige (28 Nov 2013)

Thanks Gerry and Bronte. 

I'm so grateful I don't have a young family and struggling in the way some families are, I'm sure there is at least some resolution for my situation.


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## Bronte (29 Nov 2013)

Have a look at the bankruptcy thread, there are two posters on there who are going it alone.  They are only waiting for the final bit of the legislation to be signed into law, which I understand will happen when Shatter gets back from the Lebanon.


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## cufroige (29 Nov 2013)

Bronte said:


> Have a look at the bankruptcy thread, there are two posters on there who are going it alone.  They are only waiting for the final bit of the legislation to be signed into law, which I understand will happen when Shatter gets back from the Lebanon.



I've been doing exactly that Bronte, great advice there. Should I go ahead, or whatever solution I come to, I'll post my experience also. Thank you


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