# producing documents to the gardai please help



## mollee (26 Oct 2008)

Hi I'd like some advice on this. I'm worried absolutely sick!  I was stopped the other day by the guards. My first day of driving in months as I was injured and couldn't drive.  My car wasn't taxed I know this is my fault and I should have had it sorted. The guard asked me to produce evidence that the car is taxed in the next ten days. This car was givin g to me by my father. He lost the owner certificate so I can't get it taxed. I I explained this to the guard but he says hew wants it taxed in the next ten days. My father was actually going to get a form for a replacement this week. So can i tax the car with no ownership cert? If not I'd imagine it will take more than ten days to get it sorted? He also asked that i produce an nct cert, the car hasn't been nct'd as again it had been lying up in my fathers yard for the past year. So i'd hardly be able to get this done in ten days either. I do want to sort all this out but I'm terrified it won't be done in ten days.  The most worrying thing is that he also asked me for my cert of insurance to be produced.   The injury that prevented me from driving has stopped me from being able to work. I insured it months ago but then my accident happened.  I rang up my insurance company that evening to ask for a certificate as i've recently moved house and am afraid i won't be able to find it quickly enough.  I was told my insurance had being cancelled as a direct debit had defaaulted.. I presuamed I know stupid of me i'd enough money in the bank to cover me. I didn't really think about it as i haven't being driving. I didn't get the letter as the insurance company had sent it to my old address. I nearly died when i found out i wasn't insured and got cover striaght away paying over the phone with a credit card. So now i'm in bigger trouble than before! i really am at my wits end worrying about this and any advice is very very welcome.


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## mathepac (26 Oct 2008)

I've no words of comfort I'm afraid or good news.

To tax a car, it must be insured, and as your car was not insured at the time you were stopped, it couldn't be taxed, even if you had all the other relevant documentation.

You will be facing prosecution for no tax and driving with no insurance.


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## Stifster (26 Oct 2008)

Get it sorted, you will be prosecuted though.

Driving with no insurance carries a disqualification at the discretion of the judge, your story should persuade the Judge to exercise his discretion and not ban you. I would suggest engaging a solicitor when you get the summons.

I say again, get the ownership sorted, get it taxed, get it insured.


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## mollee (26 Oct 2008)

thanks for the replies, i have it insured i got it covered as soon as the girl told me i paid on the phone. do i go to the guards and explain what happened?


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## Complainer (26 Oct 2008)

Get a solicitor and start saving.


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## Rois (27 Oct 2008)

You can try explaining to the Gardai, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on with no insurance, tax or NCT.


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## RS2K (27 Oct 2008)

You are in a right spot of bother. Get a good solicitor.


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## deadwood (27 Oct 2008)

Try not to worry too much. 

If your father is still the owner of the car, let him tax it (including back tax). The _car _is taxed, not you. Bear in mind you could still be prosecuted for no tax/tax displayed on the date you were stopped, but these are minor worries and a judge (_if _the guard prosecutes you) will often strike out these offences when the offender produces evidence that there is no loss of revenue.

Book your NCT test and print off your booking date.

Your insurance situation is black and white, really. You are at the mercy of the guard in this case.

Go to the guard, bringing evidence of tax, insurance and NCT booking. He will listen to you and should point out to the judge that you have made efforts to correct things before(n.b.)summons were issued. 

The 10 day period is the standard period allowed, so explain to the guard the difficulties you are in, (bearing in mind the Bank holiday ). He has discretion in this regard and may give you a break.

While you have committed some offences and might have to go to court, you should receive a sympathetic hearing. Bring medical certs, tax, insurance NCT etc and most importantly of all - let your solicitor do the worrying.


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## seantheman (27 Oct 2008)

if your dad has lost his papers you can get what's called a form of affadavid in your local motor tax office, get a garage to stamp it and a solicitor to sign it and you can get it taxed there and then. you maybe able to book a cancellation at your local nct centre.quickest way to do this should be through local garage, let them put it through for you, as the nct centres often ring local garages to say they have a cancellations. the insurance is a diferrent matter all you can do is tell the truth and hope for lienency though i cant condone anyone driving uninsured whatever the circumstances


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## mollee (27 Oct 2008)

Thanks so much for the replies. I really appreciate them!  I feel so ashamed about the insurance incident I would never have driven the car if I'd have known I wasn't covered. I honestly stupidly thought I was covered.   Well whats done is done and I'll take the advice of all the kind people who have advised me on this thread.  I've never been in trouble before with the gardai no parking tickets not even a speeding ticket. Thats what has me worried the most. And what a way to have my first run in with the guards!  Thanks again!


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## Complainer (27 Oct 2008)

seantheman said:


> you maybe able to book a cancellation at your local nct centre.quickest way to do this should be through local garage, let them put it through for you, as the nct centres often ring local garages to say they have a cancellations.


You can see any available slots when you book NCT online.


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## mathepac (28 Oct 2008)

deadwood said:


> ...
> If your father is still the owner of the car, let him tax it (including back tax). ...



Even if OP's father is the registered owner of the car, unless he has insurance cover on it, he cannot tax it.

If he had insurance on the car at the time OP was stopped by the Guards, and his insurance policy didn't covered OP's driving, then they both may be in trouble.

If he was the registered owner for the duration of OP's insurance, and she didn't declare this on her insurance application, she may never have had valid insurance *and* her current policy may not be valid.

If the ownership of the car was never transferred, then OP's father may get summonses.


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## RS2K (28 Oct 2008)

Whilst the insurance issue is the most serious of those mentioned the OP quite knowingly took to the road without a current NCT, and no road tax either.

Not a good attitude.


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## csirl (28 Oct 2008)

> Whilst the insurance issue is the most serious of those mentioned the OP quite knowingly took to the road without a current NCT, and no road tax either.
> 
> Not a good attitude.


 
No tax OR no NCT OR no insurance may receive some sympathy in court if the missing one was a genuine oversight. However, a judge who listens to every conceivable excuse on a daily basis is unlikely to believe that the absence of all 3 is a simple oversight. As previously advised, get a good solicitor, be prepared to pay a fine and be very apologetic in court if you want to avoid a driving ban.


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## deadwood (31 Oct 2008)

mathepac said:


> Even if OP's father is the registered owner of the car, unless he has insurance cover on it, he cannot tax it.


Thanks Mathepac. I certainly didn't mean to encourage the o.p. to try and pull a fast one - I should have read over my post more thoroughly. I took it as a given they would only do so if everything else was in order. My main point was that the tax issue is not a major one and could be sorted at no loss to the exchequer.


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## Yorrick (31 Oct 2008)

If you have all your documents corrected get back to the Guard personally as soon as you can.
Explain to him/her all that happened. Have it written down in a letter if you are nervous. It might get you some slack especially if he/she has not applied for the summonses yet. Even if he summons you for some offences he might let you off with others which will save you a fine. Also the Judge would not be impressed if you come in to court to answer No NCT, No Tax No Insurance so if you can lessen the offences the better.  
Sometimes the Guards will be lenient when dealing with you face to face because believe it or not they are human after all and they meet so many thugs they would appreciate someone who meets them half way or even more.


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## mollee (1 Nov 2008)

Thanks all, for your replies. It has been a  very busy week! tax has been done, nct booked. I've produced all to my local garda station. I've explained the situation to the guard I produced my documents to. So now I just wait to see what my fate is. I've learned a big lesson not to be so lax anymore. I just hope I don't get a driving ban. I forgot to ask the guard how long it will be before I hear anything, i.e when I'll get my summons? In this case it wasn't my local guard who stopped me it was a guard from a town about 20 miles away. Do they check the system to see if I've produced my documents or whats the procedure?   Again thanks for the replies and I totally accept the flak I've been getting it was all deserved


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## deadwood (1 Nov 2008)

mollee said:


> Do they check the system to see if I've produced my documents or whats the procedure? Again thanks for the replies and I totally accept the flak I've been getting it was all deserved


The guard who demanded production from you will check for a production record at the station you nominated on PULSE. 
Your insurance might still be a problem, so why not give the original guard a ring, or ask your local guard to find out what the story is. One way or another, you'll find out now, rather that receiving a summons unexpectedly in several months time, by which time you might have assumed it was all done and dusted.


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## Paulone (11 Nov 2008)

In a similar vein (and maybe this will be of use to Mollee if/when a summons is received), what is anyone's opinion on the use of solicitors in the district court for a no insurance etc., type of case which is, as Deadwood says, a black & white situation. 

I've been doing a search of recent press coverage for these types of cases and it seems remarkably consistent that for no insurance, the fine is in or around €1k and a driving ban varying between 2months to a year is applied in about half the cases.

Coverage of these cases is brief and to the point, so all the different cirumstances/backgrounds aren't known, but my question is whether or not paying for a solicitor would be any better than going to court yourself on the day and (as posters recommend) being apologetic and showing evidence of having rectified the situation?

This is not to knock solicitors or get info on going DIY in court, but it seems that no insurance attracts a hefty fine and the likelyhood of a ban anyway (particularly it seems, if you don't go to court), so would a solicitor make any real difference?


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## macnas (11 Nov 2008)

Most judges have been solicitors in their time.  They would like to encourage people to use solicitors to plead their case . So if you have a solicitor representing you in court the judge takes a more lenient view of the case and the fine, if imposed, will be reduced if a solicitor had been used. Any truth in this?


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## dustie (12 Nov 2008)

Hi, I understand the worry.. my friend was in a similiar situation about 2 years ago. He was given an old fairly broken car by a family member and was caught driving it. He had no tax or insurance either.. He messed up no doubt but he signed the car over to the guards as he couldnt afford to fix it up. He'd never been in any trouble before and when the summons came its scary.. but its not the end of the world. He got a solicitor and had his day in court. the episode gave him a scare (which he kinda deserved) and He got a fine of €250. 
Its very unlikely you'll be banned from driving on first offence, i'd say a fine is much more in keeping. You have to keep in mind boy racers arent even banned when caught drifting on roundabouts! 
But get a solicitor, try to explain the circumstances, show that you've fixed the documents and more importantly you've learned your lesson. It'll be ok. Good Luck.


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## mollee (27 Jun 2009)

Hi all a quick update well not an update really as I've heard nothing at all. Just wondering how many months it takes for a sumons to be issued? I would rather know one way or another.


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## onq (27 Jun 2009)

macnas said:


> Most judges have been solicitors in their time.  They would like to encourage people to use solicitors to plead their case . So if you have a solicitor representing you in court the judge takes a more lenient view of the case and the fine, if imposed, will be reduced if a solicitor had been used. Any truth in this?



I haven't found this to be the case in RTA's [Road Traffic Act offences], but proper legal representation is useful in any Court and usually only harms your wallet.

Its far more important that you go to court yourself, assess how the judge is feeling that day and the kind of sentences he is handing down.
I was once represented on a speeding ticket by a Wicklow Solicitor's office whose practice was "twinned" with one in Dublin.
On the day my solicitor was unavoidably detained.
The solicitor not turning up meant his "second" from the Dublin office asked for an adjournment as she wasn't properly briefed - this apparently was normal enough practice.

However by then I had been in Court for an hour listening to the RTA cases and the Judge was in a good mood, fines instead of endorsement and the like
The Garda was there, I was there and here was my solicitors "second" asking for an adjournment and annoying the judge.
The offence meant I could have gotten an endorsement on a "bad" day.

So after the solicitor had asked for an adjournment I stopped the Garda, who was leaving the Court, explained who I was and asked him to stay.
He agreed, and then I went up to the "second" solicitor and instructed her to proceed with the case, stating my reasons, and she agreed to accept my instruction.
It was a clear cut case, with no pleading on my part, and a judge in a good mood was the most important criterion for minimising the penalty.
The case was brought up again, the judge seemed happy to see I hadn't wasted Garda time or the Court's time and I received an IR£60 fine [it was a while ago ] and no endorsement on my licence.

I think the OP's storey is believable enough for her to be put on the stand to explain the position, but not to deny liability, just to state the case well and simply, apologise for her actions and show evidence of her contrition by producing all the documents.

Then all you can do is hope for a sympathetic hearing from the judge.
Be prepared for some serious points on the license though.

FWIW

ONQ


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## onq (27 Jun 2009)

mollee said:


> Hi all a quick update well not an update really as I've heard nothing at all. Just wondering how many months it takes for a sumons to be issued? I would rather know one way or another.



Sometimes these things take so long it looks like they've forgotten about it and you get your hopes up and then... the little brown envelope comes flitting through the letterbox.

Which reminds me, I'm due one myself - replying to this thread will probably crystallize it and it'll appear in tomorrow's mail.

<sheesh!>

So don't worry, you're in good company in the RTA section.

ONQ


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## mollee (27 Jun 2009)

Thanks


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## dustie (30 Jun 2009)

Hi Mollee... it can take months to be served with summons/documents. My friend was stopped in March, he signed over the car and all then and thought it all went away and then was served with the summons the following October.


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