# Abbey Travel Charging for Consultations/Advice



## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

Went into abbey Travel recently to book a holiday to south africa, waited in their always pain in the ass cue to be asked by the agent for €35 each before she would work out a quote for us. It comes off the final booking but if you decide its too dear your left with €35 each for a quote. There are signs up all over the place which I hadnt noticed.

I said this was rediculus but she went mad (very professional) saying that I was waisting her time (we spent the first 5 minutes generally discussing africa before she mentioned the money and she had taken down some notes). She wripped up her notes in front of me and put it in the bin when I argued about the stupidity of the charge. I told her where to stick it and went around the corner and spend €7000 on the holiday with Cassidy Travel. Spent over an hour in cassidys and could have walked out the door having spent nothing.

Has anyone every heard anything as mental.

PS have no affiliation to anything in the travel agent industry in case anyone things I am having a gripe.

KKelliher


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## frankmac (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel Charging for Quotes*

Sounds typically "Irish" to me


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## MugsGame (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel Charging for Quotes*

They are probably suffering from people comg in to plan an intinerary with them and then booking it cheaper on the internet. Paying for this advice seems to be a good model to move to. It's the same argument when paying for investment advice -- do you go to a fee based advisor, or do you want everything hidden in commission?


_You will find the wording of the notice and an explanation of all the charges here
Brendan_


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel Charging for Quotes*



MugsGame said:


> They are probably suffering from people comg in to plan an intinerary with them and then booking it cheaper on the internet. Paying for this advice seems to be a good model to move to. It's the same argument when paying for investment advice -- do you go to a fee based advisor, or do you want everything hidden in commission?


 
this goes against every consumer centament that exists. How can you shop around if it costs you a few hundred euro just to get the information to compare.


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## ClubMan (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Has anyone every heard anything as mental.


Thery're charging for a service. Big deal. If you don't like it then go elsewhere.

Any chance you could spell check your posts to make them intelligible?


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel Charging for Quotes*



kkelliher said:


> this goes against every consumer centament that exists. How can you shop around if it costs you a few hundred euro just to get the information to compare.


 
I fail to see the problem...presumably the €35 is credited against your purchase? This seems perfectly reasonable to me-if you're serious about booking a holiday with them it's irrelevant.
A perfectly reasonable and fair anti-spoofer device in my opinion...no doubt their hearts are broken with people whose intention is to book on the internet themselves.
Obviously you weren't a spoofer as you did book but I wouldn't have got so upset about it.


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Kalel

I think your slightly missing the point. Is the idea behind a travel agents outlet not to give you information to allow you to make an informed decision. Otherwise why dont they all close and go internet based. I dont know of any other agent doing this. What if you go into the travel agents and after talking to them decide its not the place to go. They are trying to force you to buy a holiday directly from them otherwise lose the money.

Cant wait for the day the car garages start charging for their price lists and demos.......its the exact same thing.

Most people going in the door have no knowledge or idea about the place they are thinking about going to. Is that not why you go in?


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Kalel
> 
> I think your slightly missing the point. Is the idea behind a travel agents outlet not to give you information to allow you to make an informed decision. Otherwise why dont they all close and go internet based. I dont know of any other agent doing this. What if you go into the travel agents and after talking to them decide its not the place to go. They are trying to force you to buy a holiday directly from them otherwise lose the money.
> 
> ...


 
No it's not actually...I wouldn't dream of going into a travel agent, sitting down, picking their brain for an hour and then just bailing. I think that's the height of ignorance. If you want information, go online. Equally, I find people test driving cars in garages when they've no intention of buying the car or buying it from that garage equally offensive.


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## Sunny (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I think it is the most stupid thing I have heard in ages. Why anyone would give them any business is beyond me. Go up to trailfinders and they will happily spend as long as you like going through your holiday with you. If they have that many people wasting their time going getting quotes and ideas from them and then booking elsewhere, then maybe they should look at their prices or something.


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## susie1 (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

it would defo put me off booking with them.
do they charge 35e per person on the quotation eg 2*adults, 2*kids = 140e, or per quotation?


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

from what I was told €35 per person because she wanted €70 from the two of us


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## ubiquitous (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

What's the problem? Why not use the email enquiry facility on their website?

[broken link removed]



> Call Abbey Travel on 01 804 7100 or email information@abbeytravel.ie


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Again I fail to see how this causes anyone other than spoofers/timewasters a problem? We're talking about a system where people who go to Abbey Travel with the intention of pretending to book a holiday are charged a fee refundable on purchase of a holiday.
Fair enough


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> What's the problem? Why not use the email inquiry facility on their website?
> 
> [broken link removed]


 
It may be hard to believe but there are some people who do still like to use the old fashion methods of human communication when they are doing something. If we keep going down the path we are there will some be no actual branches for anything including banks, post offices, travel agents and anything remotely relating to service.

As a side note I have emailed travel agents in the past for quotes and got answers days if not weeks later. And the problem with this is that you need to know what you want.


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## frankmac (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> No it's not actually...I wouldn't dream of going into a travel agent, sitting down, picking their brain for an hour and then just bailing. I think that's the height of ignorance. If you want information, go online. Equally, I find people test driving cars in garages when they've no intention of buying the car or buying it from that garage equally offensive.


 
Have you never heard of shopping around. Actually its what we are constantly being told to do in ripoff Ireland.

It is quite conceivable that someone would go to a number of outlets with the intention of buying in the most competitive one.


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## Sunny (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> Again I fail to see how this causes anyone other than spoofers/timewasters a problem? We're talking about a system where people who go to Abbey Travel with the intention of pretending to book a holiday are charged a fee refundable on purchase of a holiday.
> Fair enough


 
Not everyone is pretending to book a holiday. I would always get more than one quote from travel agents if booking long haul holidays


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## Jock04 (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I have some degree of sympathy for their plight, in that many people do pick their brains & then buy online. I know people who've done it. (not me!)

But it's only a step away from clothes shops charging you to look around, ditto car showrooms,furniture shops, mobile phone shops......just about anywhere that you may not make an instant decision to buy.

I think it's an unwelcome scheme & hope it doesn't work for them, otherwise it'll spread like wildfire to the above, and others.


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## MugsGame (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



> And the problem with this is that you need to know what you want.



And to know what you want, you need advice, which it costs money to provide.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



frankmac said:


> Have you never heard of shopping around. Actually its what we are constantly being told to do in ripoff Ireland.
> 
> It is quite conceivable that someone would go to a number of outlets with the intention of buying in the most competitive one.


 
I'm not talking about shopping around...I'm talking about knowingly wasting someone's time when you've absolutely no intention of purchasing from them. That is wrong and is what brings about charges like this €35.
Incidently the OP if the OP went into Abbey Travel to "book" a holiday as they claim then why would the €35 be a problem? It should only be an issue if the intention is not to book a holiday.


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Kalel

Just because you may not have a problem with it donst mean its right. I certainly didnt go into Abbey Travel with the idea of booking it on the internet. I went around the corner and booked it there and then. It was the fact that I couldnt even discuss the holiday with her and get a quote without paying €35 that drove me mental. you may have no problem throwing money away but I certainly didnt work for a couple of hours just to give it to someone for a quote.


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## tallpaul (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

To the OP: some things don't really add up: You obviously had a clear idea what you were interested in as you say you then went around the corner to another Travel Agent and bought a holiday. Why then did you baulk at the quote fee if it was going to come off the total and you were in all likelihood going to buy a holiday.? 

To be fair, I do think that €35 per person is somewhat excessive. Surely a single price of €35 would be enough to put off timewasters without making it a multiple of the travelling party?

Slightly OT: personally I think you are mad buying a long-haul holiday through a travel agent. Far cheaper to do it yourself over the web.


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## Sunny (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> I'm not talking about shopping around...I'm talking about knowingly wasting someone's time when you've absolutely no intention of purchasing from them. That is wrong and is what brings about charges like this €35.
> Incidently the OP if the OP went into Abbey Travel to "book" a holiday as they claim then why would the €35 be a problem? It should only be an issue if the intention is not to book a holiday.


 
Have you never test driven a car and not bought that exact one even though you have every intention of buying one.

Where does it end? I had four builders out to my house recently to give me ideas about an extension and quotes. Should they have each charged me?


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



frankmac said:


> Have you never heard of shopping around. Actually its what we are constantly being told to do in ripoff Ireland.
> 
> It is quite conceivable that someone would go to a number of outlets with the intention of buying in the most competitive one.


 
I find this type of attitude unbelievable to be honest...say for example you're going to buy a Sony LCD television. In my experience you get really good advice in the Sony Centres but their prices are a little higher. Contrast that with DID/Power City where the prices are lower but the advice you receive is generally poor or non-existent.
Personally I would go to the Sony Centre AND buy the television there because the service is part of the price. I think picking the brains of the guy in the Sony Centre and then scooting off to Power City is disgraceful behaviour and an outrageous waste of people's time.
That is not shopping around...it's being obnoxious.
When I do "shop around" I make a point of telling any saleperson who approaches me that I am "shopping around" or "just looking" so as not to waste their time.


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

tall paul

It wasnt until after I discussed the holiday at length in the other agents that we were happy to go with it. The other agent even said they would keep it for a week. It was the fact Abbey wouldnt even start to discuss the holiday without paying that I had a problem with. what if they advised me against going that time of the year?

tall paul your last line "personally I think you are mad buying a long-haul holiday through a travel agent" is exactly why I dont fall into Kalel's thinking. I always book via travel agent and this is the way I prefer to do it.

Kalel sony couldnt care less which shop you bought it in


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Kalel
> 
> Just because you may not have a problem with it donst mean its right. I certainly didnt go into Abbey Travel with the idea of booking it on the internet. I went around the corner and booked it there and then. It was the fact that I couldnt even discuss the holiday with her and get a quote without paying €35 that drove me mental. you may have no problem throwing money away but I certainly didnt work for a couple of hours just to give it to someone for a quote.


 
Right, so you didn't go into Abbey Travel to "book" a holiday...you went in to discuss a holiday, pick her brains for an hour and get a quote. Then you baulked at being told, in advance, that this would cost €35.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Sunny said:


> Have you never test driven a car and not bought that exact one even though you have every intention of buying one.
> 
> Where does it end? I had four builders out to my house recently to give me ideas about an extension and quotes. Should they have each charged me?


 
I have never test driven a car and not purchased from that garage. Test driving a car in one garage when you know you won't be doing business with them is pathetic in my view.
The builder example is completely different...you didn't tell each guy he was going to be doing the job.


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Kalel

you are away with the birds, and you either have more money than sense or dont have any sense at all.

best of luck to you because your going to love Ireland if this type of thing grows into other companies and industries

"The builder example is completely different...you didn't tell each guy he was going to be doing the job" when do you ever tell someone there going to be doing the job before you get a price????????????


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## Sunny (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> I have never test driven a car and not purchased from that garage. Test driving a car in one garage when you know you won't be doing business with them is pathetic in my view.
> The builder example is completely different...you didn't tell each guy he was going to be doing the job.


 

But the OP didn't tell the travel agent he would be "getting the job". It is no different to getting 4 holiday ideas and quotes from 4 different travel agents and picking the best/cheapest one. They bid for the business and you decide who you give it to. I shouldn't have to pay them to bid my business. What if the advice Abbey gave was complete rubbish or the final holiday price was EUR 150 more expensive than the agent next door for the same holiday? Would you get your money back?


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## Danmo (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Kalel
> 
> best of luck to you because your going to love Ireland if this type of thing grows into other companies and industries


 
I agree with you wholeheartedly and was shocked by the confrontational attitude by the lady in the travel agent - ripping up the quote  - how ignorant is that? What's next? Dunnes stores charging for trying on clothes? People are getting ruder and ruder and others seem to tolerate it. I don't buy this "vote with your feet" mullarkey. What happended to plain old fashioned good manners - never mind customer service. It's the EFF YOU if-you-don't-like-it-go-elsewhere-talk-to-the-hand mentality.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Kalel
> 
> you are away with the birds, and you either have more money than sense or dont have any sense at all.
> 
> ...


 
Eh, when you ask four builders to quote each has a chance of getting the business. There's nothing wrong with that.
When someone goes to a Sony Centre to waste a salesperson's time when their intention is to buy in Power City that is morally wrong.
And in this day and age with the internet etc I see no issue with charging for advice on a holiday when that charge is redeemed against the cost of the holiday.


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## Danmo (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Kalel
> 
> best of luck to you because your going to love Ireland if this type of thing grows into other companies and industries


 
I agree with you wholeheartedly and was shocked by the confrontational attitude by the lady in the travel agent - ripping up the quote - how ignorant is that? What's next? Dunnes stores charging for trying on clothes? People are getting ruder and ruder and others seem to tolerate it. I don't buy this "vote with your feet" mullarkey. What happended to plain old fashioned good manners - never mind customer service? It's the EFF YOU if-you-don't-like-it-go-elsewhere-talk-to-the-hand mentality.

Also, if you want to book through a travel agent that's your business. Each to his own. I know what I'd tell them to do with their €35 for a quote.


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## Pique318 (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

good on ya kkelliher.

KalEl - are you prepared to spend money in whichever establishment you go to and speak to someone about their product rather than maybe have a look elsewhere and see if the price/advice/attitude is better? 

Ah well, it's your money but don't get on your high horse about it being 'morally wrong' for others to do the most sensible thing with their money.


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## moondance (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> I have never test driven a car and not purchased from that garage. Test driving a car in one garage when you know you won't be doing business with them is pathetic in my view.
> The builder example is completely different...you didn't tell each guy he was going to be doing the job.



What if you didn't like the car after the test drive? Or any other alternative car in that particular garage. Surely you're not going to buy a car you don't like because you don't want to hurt the garage owners feelings? What a sweet and sensitive soul you are!


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## Danmo (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



moondance said:


> What if you didn't like the car after the test drive?


 
What are you gonna do? Pay a fee for every test drive? Crazy stuff.


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## Thirsty (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I'm with the OP on this one - there's no way I would pay €35 for a quotation.

Would also second the suggestions to a) use trailfinders and b) book it yourself. 

€7k for a trip to SA for 2 people seems a lot to me but you could be doing it at the very top end, I don't know. 

I was there earlier this year for 3 weeks and the total for for 3 people was less than that.


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## CCOVICH (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Please leave 'morals' out of it please folks-each to their own and all that.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Pique318 said:


> good on ya kkelliher.
> 
> KalEl - are you prepared to spend money in whichever establishment you go to and speak to someone about their product rather than maybe have a look elsewhere and see if the price/advice/attitude is better?
> 
> Ah well, it's your money but don't get on your high horse about it being 'morally wrong' for others to do the most sensible thing with their money.


 
Eh, if you'd bothered to read my posts I was criticising those who waste retailer's time when they've no intention of purchasing...e.g. pretending to book a holiday when in reality all you're looking for is information so you can book it yourself online, going to a Sony Centre and pretending you're about to buy an LCD television when in reality your intention is to buy in Power City, or test driving a car when you know if you buy that car it won't be from that garage.
That is not "shopping around"...it's being an idiot.
My finances are irrelevant...it's called being decent and up front.
As I said before, I tell staff when I'm browsing, pricing items or window shopping. Therefore I don't waste their time.


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## z108 (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Its' up to Abbey to 'sell' the deal to you. I am not surprised you walked out in disgust. So would I.
Paying a fee for  the 'privilege' of listening to a sales pitch is ludicrous.


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## frankmac (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> I have never test driven a car and not purchased from that garage. Test driving a car in one garage when you know you won't be doing business with them is pathetic in my view.
> The builder example is completely different...you didn't tell each guy he was going to be doing the job.


 
So you always buy the first ( and only) car you test drive.

You obviously have more money than sense

Quite honestly I find your opinions to be central to the ripoff Ireland we find ourselves in today. And as far as I am concerned, a travel agent charging €35 euor pp for holiday advice amount to Ripoff


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## ubiquitous (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Abbey Travel are well within their rights to charge for person-to-person advice if they see fit, particularly if they also offer such advice for free via phone and email. The cost of maintaining and staffing a city-centre drop-in office must be horrendous. Personally, I would much prefer if this cost is levied solely on those customers who use it and all their other customers who enquire and book via  phone, email or web can then enjoy lower fares. 

15 or 20 years ago, nobody thought you could run an airline unless you had big snazzy offices on Fifth Avenue, the Champs Elysees & Regent Street, and ludicrously high fares to match. If  travel agents are beginning to move into the 21st century, I will be glad.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



frankmac said:


> So you always buy the first ( and only) car you test drive.
> 
> You obviously have more money than sense
> 
> Quite honestly I find your opinions to be central to the ripoff Ireland we find ourselves in today. And as far as I am concerned, a travel agent charging €35 euor pp for holiday advice amount to Ripoff


 
You're entitled to your opinion...as am I.
I find "customers" who are in fact dreamers/spoofers completely abhorrent and believe knowingly wasting someone elses time is disgraceful.
With reference to travel agents specifically, in my experience brochures and the internet are for information gathering...those seats at the desk are for booking.
I don't think I've more money than sense...I just don't believe in knowingly wasting other people's time while maintaining the illusion of being a "customer".


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## Squire (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

There is no way, not a chance in hell, I would pay Abbey Travel this fee. €35 to get a quote??? What if their quote is a couple of hundred euro more than the travel agent down the road? You have to pay for the privilage to find that out? 

I would always shop around when buying a service and would never expect to have to pay for a quotation in an open market. You are doing them a favour by giving them a chance to sell their service, not the other way around for Gods sake.

I'd fear for the future of Abbey Travel if this is their attitude. BTW, I have used Abbey Travel loads of times in the past for many years and have found them excellent to deal with. Sometimes I have booked a holiday with them and sometimes I haven't. I wouldn't darken their door again if they continue this policy.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Abbey Travel are well within their rights to operate any business model they want as long as they are upfront about it. People have a choice - they can deal with Abbey Travel or not. 

KK - what is the actual wording of the notice in the shop? It's not anywhere on their website as far as I can see. 

In general, travel agents are finding it difficult to compete. If some become travel advisors and charge a fee instead of commission, that must be a good thing for consumers. 

Brendan


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## Pee (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> Went into abbey Travel recently to book a holiday to south africa, *waited in their always pain in the ass cue* to be asked by the agent for €35 each before she would work out a quote for us. It comes off the final booking but if you decide its too dear your left with €35 each for a quote. *There are signs up all over the place which I hadnt noticed.*
> 
> KKelliher


 
In fairness to the travel agent you were in their shop for some time and freely admit that had signs up advising of their charge that you hadn't noticed. 

If you had noticed them would you have still waited to argue the point with the saleperson or would you have turned on your heels?

The Travel Agent is well entitled to charge for the quote and you are well entitled to go elsewhere as you did.

Market share will decide if this is right for the company or not.


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## Bazoo (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ClubMan said:


> *Thery're* charging for a service. Big deal. If you don't like it then go elsewhere.
> 
> * Any chance you could spell check your posts to make them intelligible?*



Practice what you preach


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Do you mean "practise"? 

I hope aam is not using the American spell checker. 

Brendan


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## kkelliher (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

they have signs up at each counter did see them fron the waiting area and cant remember exactly what they say. They were typed up and printed in word not exactly professional ones


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## Bazoo (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Brendan said:


> *Do you mean "practise"? *
> 
> I hope aam is not using the American spell checker.
> 
> Brendan




No.


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## KalEl (15 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> they have signs up at each counter did see them fron the waiting area and cant remember exactly what they say. They were typed up and printed in word not exactly professional ones


 
So you did see the signs before you sat down...then why did you sit down and cause such a fuss? I fail to see the problem with what they're doing...they have implemented a policy which only affects timewasters and make customers aware of this.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I don't see why people are pointing out that Abbey are free to run whatever business model they choose. Nobody would argue against that. What people are saying is that the model makes no sense and is not consumer friendly. It ties the consumer into Abbey Travel from the moment they sit in the chair unless they are willing to lose €35 per person. Its no different to calling into your local bank and asking for advice on a financial product that you are *thinking *of investing in only to be told that there will be a charge for discussing it if you don't go ahead with the investment. People are right about one thing. The consumer will decide. I did mention it to friends of mine going to Australia and they laughed at the concept. Trailfinders will do well!


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## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Sunny said:


> What people are saying is that the model makes no sense and is not consumer friendly.


I'm not sure everyone here would agree with that.



Sunny said:


> Its no different to calling into your local bank and asking for advice on a financial product that you are *thinking *of investing in only to be told that there will be a charge for discussing it if you don't go ahead with the investment.



Its bizarre that you choose the example of financial services to illustrate your point. Its strange to see someone arguing that banks who offer "free advice" and who then rake in big commissions on sales of financial products to customers offer inherently better value than advisors who charge fixed fees for consultations and don't take commission from the customer's policy or fund.


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## ragazza (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I totally agree with the original poster on this.

He wasnt a timewaster - he went into the travel agent with money in his pocket, with the intention of finding and booking a holiday suitable for him.

Of course he didnt want to pay 35E x 2 just for a discussion!
What happens if he doesnt like the hotels being offered by this travel agent, or their level of service, or the final quote. If he had paid the 35E* 2 he's stuck with it (or lose his 70E).
If I went into a travel agent which had this policy, I'd walk straight out the door.

Also, not everyone wants to use the net - my almost 80 year old parents, who have never turned on a computer in their lives, wouldn't know where to start with researching a holiday on the net, so travel agents are a better option for them to get information on holidays.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> I'm not sure everyone here would agree with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Its bizarre that you choose the example of financial services to illustrate your point. Its strange to see someone arguing that banks who offer "free advice" and who then rake in big commissions on sales of financial products to customers offer inherently better value than advisors who charge fixed fees for consultations and don't take commission from the customer's policy or fund.


 
They only "rake" in commissions after the sale just as travel agents should. And I have no problem with a bank charging me commission as long as I am free to meet BOI, AIB Ulster Bank and compare their various suggestions and make my own mind up without being charged for the privilage of hearing their sales pitch.


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## Recam (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Far be form me to defend Abbey Travel, but my wife works for a travel agent, specialises in long haul. The amount of times people come to her for advise, request quotes (which by the way isn't as simple as pushing a few buttons on a computer, this involves contacting ground handlers & hotels in the various countries, thereby incurring expenses) and then for these people to go off and book themselves on the net.
Travel agents are closing all over the country as a direct result of people booking on the net.
Imagine a situation where 5 customer meet my wife on a day and she goes through the full quote procedure & follow up calls etc. and then these people use the information to book themselves on the net. Ask yourself how long this business could continue operating.
Abbey Travel  have taken the view that the service provided by them is worth €35 (and it probably is) would you expect to sit in front of a Solicitor or Accountant sounding them out before actually employing their service for hours and then walk away expecting not to pay for their time.


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## janedoe06 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

No offence, but is 'nt our right to be able to price or get the best deal for our holiday , 

and sometimes u would go into a travel agent and have i guess a general idea of the week u are going and what city , but u might not have a clue of what area u are going, and u would go into a travel agents and check the best deals 


is'nt that the whole idea to sell u a competitive package, and keep u there - and the information etc will want u to book with their agency

if i was told i'd have to pay €35 for a quote before anything - i'd feel i was under pressure to take it from them

hence why this guy went off next door and spent €7000 

so their idea of trying to get rid of allegedly time wasters with this €35 cost him wiht one person alone €7000
i dont think this management idea worked -

to be honest i like going into one of the travel agents in town here in cork by the GPO and they are most helpful and i have bought alot of packages or city breaks from them and the main reason would be due to the information they have given, not neccessarily the good deal they gave

Abbey travel i'd say would need to relook at this


----------



## frankmac (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Recam said:


> Far be form me to defend Abbey Travel, but my wife works for a travel agent, specialises in long haul. The amount of times people come to her for advise, request quotes (which by the way isn't as simple as pushing a few buttons on a computer, this involves contacting ground handlers & hotels in the various countries, thereby incurring expenses) and then for these people to go off and book themselves on the net.
> *Travel agents are closing all over the country as a direct result of people booking on the net.*
> Imagine a situation where 5 customer meet my wife on a day and she goes through the full quote procedure & follow up calls etc. and then these people use the information to book themselves on the net. Ask yourself how long this business could continue operating.
> Abbey Travel have taken the view that the service provided by them is worth €35 (and it probably is) would you expect to sit in front of a Solicitor or Accountant sounding them out before actually employing their service for hours and then walk away expecting not to pay for their time.


 
And more will close if this crazy policy is adopted


----------



## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I think the salient point is that people are not just pricing holidays...they are going in and dishonestly pretending there is a chance they will book a holiday with the agent. Then using this information they are booking the holiday themselves on the internet. If you want to price a holiday you can ring any agent or look in a brochure. What's being discussed here is actually sitting down with an agent and getting information about a particular destination under false pretences.
The only people who should be scared off by this €35 charge are timewasters, spoofers or those who are trying to "shop around" which should not be done by wasting people's time.
(I have no connection with Abbey or any other travel agent)


----------



## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> The only people who should be scared off by this €35 charge are time wasters, spoofs or those who are trying to "shop around" which should not be done by wasting people's time.
> (I have no connection with Abbey or any other travel agent)


 
Well I was scared off and I dont fall under any of your so called categories.

When i went to book the holiday i wanted to go to south Africa plan and simple. I didn't look in any brochure and i never do. I have always gone in and said this is where i want to go now what can you do for me and every time previous i have gone away to confirm dates which always have to be moved to fit the holiday and subsequently confirm the booking with the agent.

The whole problem here is that they are trying to force you to know what you want to do where u want to go and how long you want to stay before you even come in thereby totally rendering their jobs useless........ 

You may be happy to book your holidays on line or via brochures but I dont. There are always extras and upgrade which are never in the brochures and then there are transfers etc etc its not a simply case of open brochure and holiday falls out.

to be honest Kalel i think you need to just agree to disagree we all know your point.... and your giving the same answer to everyone who voices their opinion.


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> I think the salient point is that people are not just pricing holidays...they are going in and *dishonestly pretending* there is a chance they will book a holiday with the agent.



I have to disagree with that. I've never gone into a travel agents to make an enquiry and said hey yes I will buy off you but I dont care what it costs me. I dont care what conditions will be like or which hotel I stay in etc. I dont even care if you dont have a room in the place I want to go. That would be stupid and it would also be stupid of the travel agent to assume this to be the case.
I have always said somehting along the lines of :' I want to go to Africa next October and want to know what kind of deal you can offer me'. Thats the proper way to do things.
People are going in for a quote. They are not dishonestly pretending to be millionaires who dont care about money  and neither have they entered into any contract to buy. 
What I think is wrong is to put so much pressure and guilt on any passing customer who pops in for a brochure. Making an enquiry is not a contract of sale and the enquiring customer owes the shop nothing.
Any potential customer who makes an enquiry should not be made to feel guilty. I doubt any business is so busy that they cannot deal with an enquiry from a potential customer. The business has to sink these costs the same way they absorb advertising expenses. If they lose this years deal this time theres always the opportunity of the next years holiday to sell and so on. Its called  a free market.
I dont think anyone disagrees with  Abbey  having the right to price themselves out of the market if they so wish.


----------



## Recam (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Posters seem to think that Abbey Travel lost a €7,000 customer by applying this policy. No one considered that the OP may have received a better deal than €7000 if he had stuck it out paid his €35.


----------



## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Do you see the travel agents point of view at all? That they would have the details of each person who comes into "book" a holiday and the percentage who return?
All I am saying is that if I went into Abbey Travel to book a holiday I would pay the €35...why wouldn't I? I'm a serious customer. If all I was looking for was information then I would go online, look in brochures or ask a member of staff for a price and be upfront about it.
I am not questioning your motives in this...you were a real customer. But unfortunately, as is often the case the dishonest and devious few have ruined things for everyone else.


----------



## Recam (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



janedoe06 said:


> No offence, but is 'nt our right to be able to price or get the best deal for our holiday ,


 
Yes but paying the €35 for the service of an expert for an unlimited period doesn't effect your right to get the best deal.
The €70 saved by the OP was only 1% of his budget. 
Would be interested to know if this policy applies to short haul as well e.g if I want to book a last minute to Spain for €300, suddenly the risk of loosing €35 seems crazy.


----------



## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> I have to disagree with that. I've never gone into a travel agents to make an enquiry and said hey yes I will buy off you but I dont care what it costs me. I dont care what conditions will be like oir which hotel I stay in etc. I dont even care if you dont have a room in the place I want to go. That would be stupid and it would also be stupid of the travel agent to assume this to be the case.
> I have always said somehting along the lines of :' I want to go to Africa next October and want to know what kind of deal you can offer me'. Thats the proper way to do things.
> People are going in for a quote. They are not dishonestly pretending to be millionaires who dont care about money and neither have they entered into any contract to buy.
> What I think is wrong is to put so much pressure and guilt on any passing customer who pops in for a brochure. Making an enquiry is not a contract of sale and the enquiring customer owes the shop nothing.
> Any potential customer who makes an enquiry should not be made to feel guilty. I doubt any business is so busy that they cannot deal with an enquiry from a potential customer as if they lose the deal this time theres always the opportunity of the next holiday to sell and so on.


 
Did you read any of my posts?
What I am referring to is people whose intention all along is to book their holiday on the internet themselves going into Abbey Travel and pretending they are a potential customer. They are being dishonest and underhand and it is this type of person who have led to the €35 charge.


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> Do you see the travel agents point of view at all?


This story seems to be restricted to only one travel agent aka Abbey. Does any other travel agent behave like this ?
I have a problem with any business which views me as a *dishonest pretender *or a liar.


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

People are missing the point that the "quote" for each holiday is online or in the brochure. This is provided for free. If someone wants a service over and above this, for example if they don't feel comfortable using the web, then they have a choice of paying for this service or going elsewhere. Nobody, not even Abbey Travel, can please all of the people all of the time.


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> What I am referring to is people whose intention all along is to book their holiday on the internet themselves going into Abbey Travel and pretending they are a potential customer. They are being dishonest and underhand and it is this type of person who have led to the €35 charge.



But why do they have to pretend ? Can't they just walk in and see what kind of deal Abbey can offer them ? Noone would walk blindly into a deal without first examining it and comparing it to other deals.


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> I have a problem with any business which views me as a *dishonest pretender *or a liar.



Are you in business yourself? I guess not. If you ever are (no matter what type of business) then you will invariably find plenty of people in both of the above categories. Sad, yes, but that's life.


----------



## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> This story seems to be restricted to only one travel agent aka Abbey. Does any other travel agent behave like this ?
> I have a problem with any business which views me as a *dishonest pretender *or a liar.


 
How would you describe someone who intends to purchase a holiday online, but goes into a travel agent pretending they wish to purchase the holiday purely to get information to use themselves?


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> Can't they just walk in and see what kind of deal Abbey can offer them ? Noone would walk blindly into a deal without first examining it and comparing it to other deals.



Er..that's what brochures & websites are for


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> Are you in business yourself? I guess not. If you ever are (no matter what type of business) then you will invariably find plenty of people in both of the above categories. That's life.



I have experience in many businesses outside of engineering. I come from an entrepreneurial family. And one thing I'd never do is automatically treat and assume the customer is a dishonest pretender or a liar.
And of course fair play to Abbey Travel if they can squeeze another 35 euro out of even those potential customers who Abbey was judged not suitable for but its important to emphasise my point of view is as a consumer of Travel not as a purveyor. I would also like to give my considered opinion that this wont be a popular move with someone randomly walking past the premises who pops in for a brochure and a 'word' with someone.



ubiquitous said:


> Er..that's what brochures & websites are for



Then I guess youre saying theres a lot of insane people walking around who never want to go on a  holiday ever but like to imagine they are going who are ruining it for everyone else? 
As I said before; I dont think anyone disagrees with Abbey having the right to price themselves out of the market if they so wish. If it works for them then fair play to them. They are in the position to best understand their own business.


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> Then I guess youre saying theres a lot of insane people walking around who never want to go on a  holiday ever but like to imagine they are going who are ruining it for everyone else?



Sorry? Your point is a bit too abstract for me... I never mentioned anybody ruining anything.


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> Sorry? Your point is a bit too abstract for me... I never mentioned anybody ruining anything.



Well If I have to pay Abbey Travel 35 euro simply to enquire how much they can sell me a flight to Marbella for , I'd consider that to be a backward move. Just my opinion.


----------



## askalot (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



MugsGame said:


> And to know what you want, you need advice, which it costs money to provide.



This is the one selling point that highstreet travel agents have over internet based operators but if they can't make the business work without charging for it  then they probably will go the way of the dinosaurs. They are a service based industry and they need to convince the paying public of the value of that service over and above the DIY booking on the net. 

If the logic is that you are paying for the agents time then why a per person charge? And is it per person in the office while making the booking or per person traveling?

As for ripping the notes up in front of the customer, they really should look for another job. Mind you they might have to in a couple of years!


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> Well If I have to pay Abbey Travel 35 euro simply to enquire how much they can sell me a flight to Marbella for , I'd consider that to be a backward move. Just my opinion.



I can only repeat.....that's what brochures & websites are for


----------



## MrKeane (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

This policy from Abbey seems a bit ridiculous, does it apply to everything or just tailormade highend holidays?


----------



## foxylady (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> Do you see the travel agents point of view at all? That they would have the details of each person who comes into "book" a holiday and the percentage who return?
> All I am saying is that if I went into Abbey Travel to book a holiday I would pay the €35...why wouldn't I? I'm a serious customer. If all I was looking for was information then I would go online, look in brochures or ask a member of staff for a price and be upfront about it.
> I am not questioning your motives in this...you were a real customer. But unfortunately, as is often the case the dishonest and devious few have ruined things for everyone else.


 

Whats dishonest about enquiring about the cost of a holiday


----------



## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> I can only repeat.....that's what brochures & websites are for





As I said before; I dont think anyone disagrees with Abbey having the right to price themselves out of the market if they so wish. If it works for them then fair play to them. They are in the position to best understand their own business. And of course fair play to the Abbey Travel Celtic Tigers if they can squeeze another 35 euro out of even those potential customers for whom Abbey was judged not suitable but that idea in itself gives me a bad feeling.
I think I'll pop in for a brochure soonish and check out their new policy. If they tell me that I dont need them and can find out everything online then I have no problem with that. This model works for car insurance and buying flights among other things. What I wont do is pay any travel agent in advance of finding out if they have a suitable product (price + location + correct dates of holiday when I will be available to go) for me to buy.


----------



## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> I can only repeat.....that's what brochures & websites are for


 
But as said before if abbey travel website allows you book long haul holidays, flight uprades, hotel room upgrades, transfers, tours etc etc then they *might* be in a position to charge people who want face to face contact. But I am willing to bet that their website does not allow you to tailormake the holiday as much as you might wish and you need an agents help hence the commission you pay *when you book *the holiday. Also I also willing to bet that their brochure says, please contact an agent for other options on holidays.


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## bq67ie (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> It may be hard to believe but there are some people who do still like to use the old fashion methods of human communication when they are doing something. If we keep going down the path we are there will some be no actual branches for anything including banks, post offices, travel agents and anything remotely relating to service.


 

Use Trailfinders. Travelled with them several times and always found them knowledgable. usually the person I speak to has a practical "off the beaten track" suggestion for my trip. They are very pleasant and friendly to deal with, and helpful and flexible.

Yeah this probably sound like I'm trying to drum up business for them. I'm not. If I didn't like them I'd be at least as forthcoming with my comments!


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## ubiquitous (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Sunny said:


> But I am willing to bet that their website does not allow you to tailormake the holiday as much as you might wish and you need an agents help hence the commission you pay *when you book *the holiday.



What has this to do with anything? The €35 "consultation fee" is credited against the cost of the holiday once booked. The overall cost of the holiday is unaffected, as is Abbey Travel's commission.


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## frankmac (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



sign said:


> But why do they have to pretend ? Can't they just walk in and see what kind of deal Abbey can offer them ? *Noone would walk blindly into a deal without first examining it and comparing it to other deals.*




Except KelAl who obviously feels duty bound to accept the first offer that is put to him, including the purchase of a car


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## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> What has this to do with anything? The €35 "consultation fee" is credited against the cost of the holiday once booked.



A fee which I am presuming they will keep even if they cant find you a suitable holiday ?



ubiquitous said:


> The overall cost of the holiday is unaffected, as is Abbey Travel's commission.



So I therefore see no cost advantage for me as a consumer to do any business with them.



It would make more sense for them to announce that holidays booked online are discounted. This is a rational practice of companies such as Tesco (car insurance), Ryanair and Aerlingus among others.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> What has this to do with anything? The €35 "consultation fee" is credited against the cost of the holiday once booked. The overall cost of the holiday is unaffected, as is Abbey Travel's commission.


 

Why should I pay for a service that they might not be able to provide???? If I ask for a certain hotel and they say they don't deal with that one, can I walk out with my €35??


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



frankmac said:


> [/b]
> 
> Except KelAl who obviously feels duty bound to accept the first offer that is put to him, including the purchase of a car


 
You give them eyes but they cannot see...

As I've said a few times this €35 charge has been brought about by dishonest pseudo-customers. Nobody is suggesting there should be a charge for a quote, e.g. how much is a flight to Malaga?
The issue is using a travel consultant, getting information and taking up someones time under false pretences.
I don't accept the first offer put to me...and I don't waste people's time.

The issue is people who are going to buy their holiday online but need information pretending they are a potential customer in a brick and mortar travel agent. i.e. wasting other people's time, being a spoofer, telling lies.
That is what's led to this €35 charge.


----------



## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> You give them eyes but they cannot see...
> 
> As I've said a few times this €35 charge has been brought about by dishonest pseudo-customers. Nobody is suggesting there should be a charge for a quote, e.g. how much is a flight to Malaga?
> The issue is using a travel consultant, getting information and taking up someones time under false pretences.
> ...


 
What evidence do you have that people do this? Could it not be a case of people going to three different agents, asking for ideas and quotes and choosing the best one. What is dishonest about that?


----------



## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

All i cant believe is that a simple ranting post has now got 85 posts !!!!! Obviously people (YES KaLeL not you) do feel the same way I did at the time and at the end of the day it is down to everyone what they do about it but I simply think its wrong. I am a consulatant and always meet new clients and give them my time with a view to drumming up business, this may even include dinners etc etc. If i dont get business i dont send them a bill.


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## TTV (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



> Originally posted by *KalEl
> *I don't accept the first offer put to me...and I don't waste people's time.



Maybe not the first offer but by your reasoning you will be morally obliged to accept one of the offers of the Travel "consultant" even if it doesnt suit your needs, otherwise you will be leaving the shop without making a purchase i.e. wasting their time. How someone can try to charge like this is beyond me, I agree that there may be a problem with people trying to get information and then booking online but this seems more like a case of the Travel Agents allowing these people to ruin it for themselves rather than anything else. There is no way I would pay 35 even to get detailed information if I was planning a holiday unless it was refundable given the case that they cannot find me exactly what I want, and the actions of the staff in Abbey leave a lot to be desired..


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## Firefly (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Ditto...can't believe there are so many posts (to which I am adding ). It's a simple choice...if you're happy you pays your moneys, if not there's heaps of competition. Some things you just have to pay for...it's like using the internet if you're sick as opposed to going to the doctor.


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## Squire (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> You give them eyes but they cannot see...


 
To be honest, I dont get your point at all. 

I am a professional buyer and would never expect to have to pay a potential supplier to provide me with a quotation for any product/service I wish to buy. 

I mearly specify what I want and ask them to submit a price. Quiet often a supplier, who will have a better knowledge of the area, will suggest alterations to my specification that will still suit my requirements. 

I may use this new information in the future or with other suppliers and would not feel "dishonest" in the least. I will use it to get the best deal possible and do not think that it is against any ethical values I have learned in over 20 yeras as a purchaser.

It is up to suppliers to attract a buyer and the thought of having to pay a supplier to quote me is laughable to be honest. I dont care if they feel I am wasting their time or not. If their product/service is up to standard they will get the business, if it is not they wont. I will not pay for the privilage of finding that out.


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## pc7 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I think the OP should write to abbey travel and show the invoice for the holiday they eventually booked. If enough people do this then Abbey can work out cost/benefit for the charge and if the business they lose is worth the 35 charge for those that book. Personally I wouldn't pay it, thats just my personal opinion, i'm not a dishonest pretend booker or anything like that (going on early posts here). Just feel that if i'd to pay it I would feel obliged to book there, I'd rather go to someone else for a quote and help.  Its like when i'm on holidays and the touts are trying to entice you into pubs/restaurants, I don't like feeling pressured into some situations and avoid them and go to the pub/restaurant with no pressure involved.


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## frankmac (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> You give them eyes but they cannot see...
> 
> As I've said a few times this €35 charge has been brought about by dishonest pseudo-customers. Nobody is suggesting there should be a charge for a quote, e.g. how much is a flight to Malaga?
> The issue is using a travel consultant, getting information and taking up someones time under false pretences.
> ...


 

I think that in your list of timewasters, spoofers and liars you also included people who test drive cars. 

One can only assume that you know a lot of people of dubious character.

I can assure you that if I test drive a car it is for the right reasons and not for a free ride. Similarly if I go into any shop and look for a price it is so that I can decide for myself which is the best deal for ME to spend MY money on.


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## Plek Trum (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Has anyone thought of emailing Abbey travel with a link to this post?...


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

OK, I'll try and make it even simpler...

Going to any business and pretending you're interested in buying something purely to get information when in reality you know you will be purchasing it elsewhere=bad and dishonest

Asking for a quotation or price=perfectly fine

This has nothing to do with shopping around or pricing things...that's a red herring. Some people don't seem to understand what's being discussed here.

The issue was not Abbey Travel looking for €35 before they'd give someone a quote for a flight to Malaga. Their policy seems to be if you want to discuss a holiday (when's the best time to go, recommend a hotel, tell you what vaccinations you need etc etc) then you pay €35 which is redeemable against the holiday if you purchase it.


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## Sunny (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



KalEl said:


> OK, I'll try and make it even simpler...
> 
> Going to any business and pretending you're interested in buying something purely to get information when in reality you know you will be purchasing it elsewhere=bad and dishonest
> 
> ...


 
I must be stupid because I still don't understand what you are saying. How can it not limit or discourage shopping around for the best holiday if you have to pay €35 to discuss it with an agent. I book long haul holidays every year to different 'exotic' locations around the world and always use agents. I have never thought about using an agent and then booking on the internet and no-one I know has either. But I have gone to two or three different agents and discussed what I wanted and what they recommended and prices etc. Believe it not, the web does not always contain true and accurate information. I then choose the one that suited me best at the best price. If every travel agent followed abbey travel, I would be losing €70 just for wanting different ideas before I choose where to spend my money. 

Anyway think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one!!!


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## legend (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

have people gone mad on here....

i recently test drove a 04 bmw in my local garage and then went to england to buy the same model.. cleared the vrt and still saved 5k...

should i go back to my local garage and give them som of the money i saved... i think not...

some people have more money than sense !!!!!


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## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

oh Legend beware the rath of Kalel who will surley tell you what he thinks of you...........


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## pc7 (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

don't want to risk emailing them incase they charge me! lol information@abbeytravel.ie


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## Squire (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Customer: Hi, I'd like to ask about a trip to the US for myself and my Partner. I've never been there before. I don't have a computer so i cant do research on line. What can you offer?

AT: I'm sorry but you will have to give me €70 before I can discuss it.

Customer : But what if I don't like what you have to offer or if the dates do not suit me?

AT : Sorry, but them's the rules.

Customer: OK, pity becuase I have being using Abbey Travel for the last 25 years but I can't afford to pay you €70 to find out if you might have a product that will suit me.

AT : You could have a look at our brochure for free.

Customer : OK, would you recommend anything in particular?

AT : No, sorry. We have this rule you see...I can't tell you about the options without the payment.

Customer : Oh.

AT: OK, bye. NEXT!

Customer: Goes to next high street agent and books a holiday worth €7000.


It's that simple.


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## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

squire as stupid as that sounds you have the whole thing in one.


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## Squire (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> squire as stupid as that sounds you have the whole thing in one.


 
It sounds stupid becuase it is stupid.


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



legend said:


> have people gone mad on here....
> 
> i recently test drove a 04 bmw in my local garage and then went to england to buy the same model.. cleared the vrt and still saved 5k...
> 
> ...


 
Did you tell them that this was your intention all along?

Or did you pretend you were actually interested in that car?

Of course you shouldn't go back and pay them money...however if it were me I would be a touch embarrassed about my duplicitous behaviour.
(unless buying that car from that garage was ever a runner)


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## 26cb (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

OP did the right thing and voted with the feet but the telling statement is in the initial post "There are signs up all over the place which I hadnt noticed".......


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## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

26cb Seeing the signs would just have saved me the arguement it wouldnt stop the issue. If i had seen the signs I would have left straight away. It dosnt get away from the issue of charging for a quote


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## GarBow (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Its like asking where the beans are in tesco and being charged for directions. Absolutely scandalous and i can't see this charge lasting much longer!


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## 26cb (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

So.......are you also against paying a Financial Advisor ?


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## kkelliher (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



26cb said:


> So.......are you also against paying a Financial Advisor ?


 
I wouldnt pay a finalcial advisor for meeting with me and him telling me what he can do for me and for what price

I would pay him for meeting with him and getting advice


----------



## 26cb (16 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Dont' get me wrong I would be as annoyed with Abbey Travel as you are...I would defend to the hilt their right to set a price for the consultancy and would also expect them to be aware of the impact on their business....It would not surprise me to find that Abbey are pushing in the direction of an online business model !


----------



## almo (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

In terms of paying for service, it's long been practice here in Croatia that property agents charge clients to view property.  Even some of the "big" agencies or internationals will do this.  The defence is that: "We're not a tour agency".  Others are more clever, they put together accommodation but lump in 50% profit to cover costs.  I'd always found both a little wrong as the service provided by their agents is generally not up to snuff, imo.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I spoke to Abbey Travel. Their sign says

"A consultation fee of €35 is payable. This Consultation Fee is redeemable against final invoices  on tailor made bookings" 

They don't charge for quotations. If you want to price a flight to South Africa, they will give you a quote. If you want to sit down and plan a round the world tour, they will charge you. 

Brendan


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I wanted to sit down and plan a trip to south africa not around the world tour and they point blank refused to quote without payment upfront - FACT

If i just wanted a flight i would of course booked it online like everyone else.

Are not 80-90% of long haul holidays "Tailor Made"


----------



## KalEl (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Brendan said:


> I spoke to Abbey Travel. Their sign says
> 
> "A consultation fee of €35 is payable. This Consultation Fee is redeemable against final invoices on tailor made bookings"
> 
> ...


 
This sounds like a perfectly reasonable and well thought out policy to me.


----------



## Trish2006 (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I have to say it's the per person part that bugs me the most.  If you're paying for a consultation then the number of people it's to affect should be irrelevant.  They'll end up with everyone going in to disucss a tailor made holiday for 1, just in case they can't come up with something suitable.  If they do find something then it'll be 'I want to book that for 4'.
I get what you're saying Kalel, some people do price and get someone else to do all the work and then book online.  Personally, if it was my intention to book online I wouldn't 'waste someone's time'.  Similarly if I wanted to buy a car in the uk I don't think I'd feel right about test driving one here, wasting a salesperson's time and a garage's fuel.
But I don't think these people are in the majority and it seems a bit much to assume that people are ready to screw you.  I do feel that even if you get advice from someone and take up their time, there is no guarantee that you are getting the best advice possible.  I know my dad once went into a travel agents looking for a hol for themselves and my brother (about 10 at the time).  He asked for advice and was recommended a place that they moved from 2 days into the hol because it was totally unsuitable, full of drunken teenagers.  Personally I wouldn't pay the €35 and would go somewhere else.  If I liked what they described and recommended then great, but sometimes some people just don't 'get' what you're looking for and you need to find someone who does, be that in the same agency or in a different one.  I'm not sure I'd be convinced of the advice from a 22 year old if I was looking for a family holiday.  Would he/she fully grasp the requirements for something suitable for a toddler?  Maybe, if they were very good at their job, but should you have to forfeit €140 (2 ad, 2 ch) if you're not convinced.  Any guarantees that the advice is excellent??
I don't think it's that wise a move for them, especially if they're the only ones doing it, as I know it would put me off and I certainly wouldn't be a time waster, but I wouldn't like to feel obliged to buy my holiday there if someone else could provide me with a better (not necessarily cheaper) option.


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

There is no doubt that Abbey Travel introduced this charge for a very good reason. If they just wanted to increase their charges, it would have been much easier to absorb these in their rates. My own guess that their motivation for introducing a specific consultation charge is two-fold.

1. to discourage timewasters who are effectively picking their brains and going elsewhere to book.
2. to reduce or eliminate queues in their office.

Of course this new charge will cost Abbey business. My own suspicion is that they will have factored this into their strategy. Almost every business finds from time to time that they can make more profits by getting rid of unprofitable (or least profitable) customers or potential customers. Aer Lingus' withdrawal from Shannon is one very current example.

That said, if Abbey can get rid of their queues, they will have one up on their competitors where customers have no option but to queue. They may well lose on the swings but gain on the roundabouts.


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Trish2006 said:


> I have to say it's the per person part that bugs me the most.  If you're paying for a consultation then the number of people it's to affect should be irrelevant.  They'll end up with everyone going in to disucss a tailor made holiday for 1, just in case they can't come up with something suitable.  If they do find something then it'll be 'I want to book that for 4'.



Unless they are a very unreasonable company, _a la_ Ryanair for example, I doubt if they would impose the "per person" €35 charge rigidly. Travel agents in general do very well from group bookings. It would be madness to discourage these.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Trish

A per person charge sounds unreasonable at first sight, but when you think about it, it's not that unreasonable. 

They have presumably worked out that the average booking is for three people, so their average fee is €105 which is fair enough for up to an hour of advice. 

If they charged a fixed rate per hour, then it would be very expensive for people who are travelling on their own. 

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Mystery Shopping Report 

What else have I to do with my lunchtime except check out this interesting story. 

*Abbey Travel*

Every station had a prominent sign headed "Service Fees Menu" 

"Long Haul Destinations
A consultation fee of €35 is payable. This Consultation Fee is redeemable against final invoices on tailor made bookings"

The girl explained that this does not apply to normal holiday and flight bookings, but it applies when people come in and want to spend 2 days in one place and three days on the wine route etc. 

"Air Tickets: €20 per booking"
The girl explained that all travel agents charge this because neither Aer Lingus or Ryanair pay commission anymore. 

"Hotel/Car Hire Booking" : €25

"Credit Card payments: 1.5%" 

*Club Travel*

There was a notice on the back wall with the heading "Fees" on it. It was not readable from my side of the counter. The girl said that this was just what the airlines charge.  I asked if they charged for giving advice and they said no. They only charge when you buy something. 

*Budget Travel *

There were two girls in the shop and maybe 7 spaces. There was one sign up on the wall about 1.5% for credit cards and €20 for booking flights. They don't really do tailor made flights I was told. 

*Cassidys Travel *
No sign up. They don't charge for advice. 


In case anyone is worried about the commercial future of Abbey Travel, it was by far the busiest of them. 

Abbey Travel had a sign on every desk and it was the most clearly written. 

Brendan


----------



## Jock04 (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I'm still struggling to believe that people can not only accept but defend Abbey's stance. 

It's a departure from accepted practice to charge potential customers to look at your products. The fact that it's not illegal doesn't mean it should be defended.
A favourite retort on this forum is that "you can always go elsewhere."
I expect, and indeed hope, that people will.
Personally, I'd find a walk round to the next travel agent worth €70 or more. And a sight more on principle.


----------



## Sunny (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

Good survey Brendan. Hope had time for a sandwich 

I guess its a case of each to your own. I wouldn't pay it myself but as the survey shows, there is plenty of choice.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Jock04 said:


> It's a departure from accepted practice to charge potential customers to look at your products. ...
> 
> 
> Personally, I'd find a walk round to the next travel agent worth €70 or more. And a sight more on principle.


 
Jock - I presume that your post crossed with mine. The maximum charge from Abbey Travel is €35. What does that work out as a percentage of €7,000? 

So what if it's a departure from accepted practice? The most frequent criticism of _Rip-off Ireland_  is that all businesses are the same. Now, one charges a fee for professional advice and they are castigated for it. 

Brendan


----------



## 1308dorina (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*

I don't see the big deal with this really......okay maybe €35 per person is a bit steep, but to be perfectly honest I think that agents should be charging on enquiries like this......if it's a straight forward booking then obviously they don't need to charge a consultation fee but if somebody wants to tailor make a long haul trip there will be a lot of work to go into that booking......and the commission back on these bookings isn't necessarily ample.......travel agents commissions have been cut in a big way over the last few years and people don't seem to realise that fact.......i think if the person is qualified to give a consultation (ie. they have travelled to the said areas or can give all relevant information) then a consultation fee would be worth paying


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Brendan said:


> I spoke to Abbey Travel....They don't charge for quotations.



Perhaps then, the title of this thread should be modified accordingly?


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Brendan said:


> . Now, one charges a fee for professional advice


 
As apposed to not paying for the amateur version.......without wanting to start a discussion on what constitutes a professional

I went into Abbey and told the agent we were looking for a quote for a holiday to South Africa and I was then told €70 thank you. The title is totally correct because you cant get a quote without advice on that type of holiday.


----------



## ClubMan (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



ubiquitous said:


> Perhaps then, the title of this thread should be modified accordingly?


I've modified it so hopefully it's a bit more accurate now?


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*

Indeed. Thanks.


----------



## KalEl (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



kkelliher said:


> As apposed to not paying for the amateur version.......without wanting to start a discussion on what constitutes a professional
> 
> I went into Abbey and told the agent we were looking for a quote for a holiday to South Africa and I was then told €70 thank you. The title is totally correct because you cant get a quote without advice on that type of holiday.


 
I don't agree...walking into a travel agent and saying I want two flights to Cape Town and 10 nights in the Twelve Apostles Hotel is looking for a quote.
Walking in and looking to be led through various options and advised about where to go and what to see is a consultation.
There is a big difference. You did not look for a quote, you looked for them to construct a tailor made holiday for you and for that they charge an upfront fee as there is a cost to them for doing this.


----------



## Jock04 (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Brendan said:


> Jock - I presume that your post crossed with mine. The maximum charge from Abbey Travel is €35. What does that work out as a percentage of €7,000?
> 
> So what if it's a departure from accepted practice? The most frequent criticism of _Rip-off Ireland_ is that all businesses are the same. Now, one charges a fee for professional advice and they are castigated for it.
> 
> Brendan


 

Hi Brendan
Our posts did indeed cross.
I agree that €35 is a very small % of €7000. It's a very large % of nothing though, if you decide you don't want what is being offered.
I'd also question the rationale that because a company has deviated from the "all companies are the same" complaint -  offering to be different by charging you for even asking- this is a step forward.

Abbey have a great location, and I'm sure that they'll continue to thrive in spite of this new idea. I'm also sure that to some degree, they WILL lose business. The decision is, of course, theirs to make. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the concept and would vote with my feet, and I suspect others will do likewise. Whether those numbers will be sufficient to cause a change of heart - only time will tell.


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> I went into Abbey and told the agent we were looking for a quote for a holiday to South Africa and I was then told €70 thank you.





kkelliher said:


> I told her where to stick it and went around the corner and spend €7000 on the holiday with Cassidy Travel. Spent over an hour in cassidys and could have walked out the door having spent nothing.



Lets get this straight. You walked into Abbey looking for a quote. You left and went around the corner to Cassidys, looking for a quote. You stayed more than an hour and, by the time you walked out the door, you had signed up for a €7000 holiday without looking for any further quotes elsewhere? Sorry, this doesn't really add up.


----------



## ClubMan (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*

Was this charge only recently introduced by _Abbey Travel _or have they had it for a while now thus suggesting that it is having little negative impact on their overall business?


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



ubiquitous said:


> Lets get this straight. You walked into Abbey looking for a quote. You left and went around the corner to Cassidys, looking for a quote. You stayed more than an hour and, by the time you walked out the door, you had signed up for a €7000 holiday without looking for any further quotes elsewhere? Sorry, this doesn't really add up.


 
Why so?

My original budget for the holiday was for something arounf the €6-7k mark and when it came out a little under €7k and seeing what we were getting we were happy to go with it. I could have walked out no questions asked in cassidys. They even said they would hold it for a week.

I didnt get this opportunity in Abbey. 

Also remember not all locations/ hotels / etc etc are available from all companies. As it turned out it was meant to be as we had an amazing holiday in amazing facilities. with abbey i'll never know.....


----------



## Yellow Belly (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*

The original poster is just typical of that new addition to Irish society- A Hobbsanite!!! Led by the limelight chasing, so called consumer champion Eddie Hobbs - who just doesn't tell you what he charges for the same hour that Abbey were fed up supplying for free & now want a paltry €35 to hold peoples hands!

Wake up & smell the coffee people- there is nothing for nothing!!!! I totally agree with Kalkel's stance on this issue- the original poster didn't want a "quote" but instead wanted a consulatation, and the independent advice of a professional travel agent. Fair play to Abbey for bucking the trend on "nazi consumerism" where all consumers feel like businesses owe them something, and should give out information freely, I can only assume that Abbey got fed up of feeding free information to "tyre kickers"!!

Fair play to the poster too though if they were able to find a fool willing to provide all the information required (and an hours time) for free. Hope they don't assume that the same will apply if they ever require legal advice.


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> Why so?



It just strikes me as odd that someone would sign up for a €7,000 holiday on the spot, without at least going home and thinking about it, let alone comparing against other alternatives.

Also, as you had already decided on a budget for your trip, and it took Cassidy's over an hour to put together your package, its hardly true to say that you were simply looking for a quote from Abbey.


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



Yellow Belly said:


> The original poster is just typical of that new addition to Irish society- A Hobbsanite!!! Led by the limelight chasing, so called consumer champion Eddie Hobbs - who just doesn't tell you what he charges for the same hour that Abbey were fed up supplying for free & now want a paltry €35 to hold peoples hands!
> 
> Wake up & smell the coffee people- there is nothing for nothing!!!! I totally agree with Kalkel's stance on this issue- the original poster didn't want a "quote" but instead wanted a consulatation, and the independent advice of a professional travel agent. Fair play to Abbey for bucking the trend on "nazi consumerism" where all consumers feel like businesses owe them something, and should give out information freely, I can only assume that Abbey got fed up of feeding free information to "tyre kickers"!!
> 
> Fair play to the poster too though if they were able to find a fool willing to provide all the information required (and an hours time) for free. Hope they don't assume that the same will apply if they ever require legal advice.


 
And you are abviously one of the beautiful people making this country the beautiful place it is to live in today...........I suppose €50 for a bag on aerlingus and ryanair wont be a problem to you either.... and I need to wake up and smell the coffee???????????


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*

Business is made on consumers so we will just see what happens.

36 people have commented on this post
7 did not expressly imply a position (19.44%)
6 believe Abbey are correct (16.66%)
23 think abbey are wrong (63.88%)

Lets see what happens


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> 36 people have commented on this post
> 7 did not expressly imply a position (19.44%)
> 6 believe Abbey are correct (16.66%)
> 23 think abbey are wrong (63.88%)



So? Ryanair is probably the most often criticised company on AAM. They are also one of the most profitable and successful companies in Ireland (and indeed Europe). Go figure.


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



ubiquitous said:


> It just strikes me as odd that someone would sign up for a €7,000 holiday on the spot, without at least going home and thinking about it, let alone comparing against other alternatives.
> 
> Also, as you had already decided on a budget for your trip, and it took Cassidy's over an hour to put together your package, its hardly true to say that you were simply looking for a quote from Abbey.


 
i cant make a decision without a quote no matter what way you want to make it sound. this is not a question about my holiday, its about weather people believe its right or wrong to charge for getting a quote for a holiday in the old school meaning of "going to a travel agent".

you cannot get a quote for a long haul holiday with more than one location without sitting down with an agent as you will never know what works even if you have done your homework.


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



ubiquitous said:


> So? Ryanair is probably the most often criticised company on AAM. They are also one of the most profitable and successful companies in Ireland (and indeed Europe). Go figure.


 
Ryanair have based their totally successful business model on getting fairs low so more people travel thereby generating more income from associated products. 
Where is your point....

Abbey are adding a new charge they are not trying to reduce anything and this is not going to increase their level of business.....


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> Where is your point....


...that your little "poll" is meaningless.


----------



## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



ubiquitous said:


> ...that your little "poll" is meaningless.


 
Oh right then thanks professor and noone ever complains about the census guess thats meaningless too.........


----------



## ubiquitous (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> thanks professor



Please be civil.


----------



## gianni (17 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> Oh right then thanks professor and noone ever complains about the census guess thats meaningless too.........


 
a bit more science behind the census....


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## lightswitch (17 Aug 2007)

Totally agree with the OP.  As a sales person myself who often drives many miles to see potential clients it is rediculous in the extreme to expect people to pay in advance for advice on any service that they "may" require.  Even shop assisants are highly trained in sales techniques these days and have daily targets to hit.  I have used abbey travel myself in the past and was happy with them.  There is no way I will be using them going forward with this policy in place.  OP,  thats 37 who believe you are right! ;-)


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## kkelliher (17 Aug 2007)

lightswitch said:


> thats 37 who believe you are right! ;-)


 
More like Abbey are wrong ;-)


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## MOB (17 Aug 2007)

This seems to be one of those debates where the people on each side already have a fixed view on issues of this type, and are not going to be persuaded by the arguments of the other side.   I find myself leaning toward supporting Abbey.   Many of those who do not have made the point, in one form or another, that

"It's a departure from accepted practice to charge potential customers to look at your products."

The point I wish to make in response is this: 'accepted practice' is a moveable feast in a market which has changed as much as the travel\tourism market.  The flights, the hotels, the guided tours etc. are not Abbey's 'products'.   Abbey's 'products' are advice, planning and booking of such products, which are sold by third parties. The old business model is that Abbey would get a fat commission from the providers of the products.  Internet sales are gradually destroying that model. 

These days, Abbey are like a 'personal shopper' or a wedding planner.   They help you to find a product which is right for you.  

It seems that Abbey get a lot of window shopper\tire kicker prospects in the door.  This might be simply due to having a location with a lot of footfall.  Alternatively, it might be because Abbey have a strong reputation (I really have no idea - I don't do much foreign travel).

Abbey want to change the mix coming through their door more toward committed purchasers\strong prospects, or at least that is the logic implicit in their up front charge.

I would not be at all surpised to see more travel agents moving all the way to a fee based model in the future.  Time will tell.


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## sinbadsailor (20 Aug 2007)

This post has been hidden, because it contravenes our  in some way. However, the author can easily re-write it so that it doesn't break the rules, so let's hope they do just that.

If I could remember what the comment was....apologies!


----------



## Humpback (20 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for quotes*



Danmo said:


> What are you gonna do? Pay a fee for every test drive? Crazy stuff.


 

You won't want to go to the garage mentioned [broken link removed] then.


----------



## KalEl (21 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



kkelliher said:


> And you are abviously one of the beautiful people making this country the beautiful place it is to live in today...........I suppose €50 for a bag on aerlingus and ryanair wont be a problem to you either.... and I need to wake up and smell the coffee???????????


 
Flights to London cost IR£300 before the low cost carriers came along. A bag isn't €50...golf clubs are, so quoting that figure isn't relevant.
One other query for the OP, this happened recently yet you've already been on the holiday? Plus, as other posters have pointed out you were looking for quotes yet spent seven grand in what was essentially the first place you went into?
There are aspects of this tale which don't quite add up.
Having read over everyone's contributions again I still have sympathy for Abbey and feel this charge is an appropriate anti-spoofer/tyre kicker device.
I'm sure their hearts are broken with people pretending to b ook holidays when all they're doing is fishing for free information so they can book it themselves online.


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## rabbit (21 Aug 2007)

Fair play to Abbey Travel. I am sure they are fed up with time-wasters picking their brains for an hour or more and then walking out the door never to be seen again...only to book on the internet or whatever.   Its like people going in to shops, letting their kids pull everything apart, asking the assistant a thousand and one questions, staying 2 hours picking holes in everything and asking this and that, and then walk out without buying anything. It happens!   Some people try on items for size in shops, get the shops advice on features and quality etc,  + then buy online from lower tax countries.


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## Jock04 (22 Aug 2007)

Whilst I totally respect everyone's right to have their own point of view, I can't help feeling that threads like this show just why consumers so often pay over the odds here.
If a few are wasting time, sure why shouldn't we all pay for it? Sorry, but to me that just isn't fair and isn't on. My sense of fair play doesn't extend to paying to try on a jacket - the inevitable conclusion of this trend-setting charge.
Let one company get away with it and others will surely follow.

Is the seller doing his very best to be fair to you, or is he trying to get the best deal he can for his business?
Consumers are also entitled to seek the best deal they can for themselves.


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## sinbadsailor (22 Aug 2007)

It has to be about competition. If you provide a service and give advice on buying a holiday product and don't get the sale for whatever reason, you look at your current offering, improve it's appeal to the customer and try again.

Competition works like that. A few dodgy people who always look for the angle cannot dictate a pricing policy for the whole company. I doubt Aey are in financial dire straights because of this. It is just an excuse to try and monetise the information they are giving.


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## robd (22 Aug 2007)

This is an interesting topic and debate.

In general most shops, car garages etc. would have their margin high enough to take account of the time wasters or tyre kickers.

I guess the same would apply to a travel agent.  However, with the internet I would imagine it's increasingly difficult to convert enquiries to sales as the margins on the internet are so much lower.

The only reason I can see that Abbey Travel would do this is if their profits were being squeezed due to a drop in sales converstions.

From a consumer perspective I don't see much wrong with the principal of it.  There is enough competition in the travel agent market where you could just go else where as the OP did.  The only criticism I have is that it's a per person rather than a per enquiry charge.  I can't see too many people being willing to fork over €140 for a standard 2+2 family holiday enquiry.  The tacky signs would suggest this is being trialled through and may be adjusted based on Abbey's experience.  Who knows.

The rep in the place did seem rude but that could be due to the OP's reaction and indignation.


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## kkelliher (22 Aug 2007)

robd said:


> I can't see too many people being willing to fork over €140 for a standard 2+2 family holiday enquiry.


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## ubiquitous (22 Aug 2007)

€35 x 4 = €140


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## shanegl (22 Aug 2007)

> I can't see too many people being willing to fork over €140 for a standard 2+2 family holiday enquiry.


 
Then Abbey will either change their policy or go out of business, if people stop going there that is. Can't see where all the rage is coming from to be honest. Don't like the prices? Don't shop there then.


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## kkelliher (22 Aug 2007)

shanegl said:


> Can't see where all the rage is coming from to be honest. Don't like the prices? Don't shop there then.


 
Problem is you cant get the prices without paying the fee......


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## robd (22 Aug 2007)

shanegl said:


> Then Abbey will either change their policy or go out of business, if people stop going there that is. Can't see where all the rage is coming from to be honest. Don't like the prices? Don't shop there then.



Yes, I agree.  I thought I kind of covered that in the next sentance.



> The tacky signs would suggest this is being trialled through and may be adjusted based on Abbey's experience.


----------



## shanegl (22 Aug 2007)

kkelliher said:


> Problem is you cant get the prices without paying the fee......


 
I meant the fee. What's the big deal here? Company adds new charge -> shop somewhere else. Happens all the time.



> Yes, I agree. I thought I kind of covered that in the next sentance.


 
I was agreeing with you


----------



## casiopea (22 Aug 2007)

*Re: Abbey Travel charging for itinerary consultations*



KalEl said:


> I'm sure their hearts are broken with people pretending to book holidays when all they're doing is fishing for free information so they can book it themselves online.



I see KalEl and rabbit's points however my sympathy does not lie with abbey travel and I would not pay 35 euro for that service.  

Abbey travel and all travel agencies are suffering from the internet age and people doing exactly what KalEl says above.  However so are many other industries suffering the same fate, a really big one (hit just as seriously as travel agencies) are music stores.  Anyone can now go and download (legally) a tune and stick it on their iPOD they dont need to go to HMV to buy the CD.  Do HMV charge 35 euro a consultation?  No. Do HMV continue to sell CDs and other services to attract in lost customers?  Yes.  There are many examples and there are going to be more, a big one coming up is television, what with youtube and TiVo the future of television stations and even televisions themselves is in some doubt - they are suffering the same fate as travel agencies with people downloading "Lost" rather than tuning into RTE 1.  

What Abbey Travel need to do is identify a differentiator so that someone will book with them rather than the internet.  They have done this but its a negative differentiator (35 euro worse off), to survive theyll need to identify with a positive differentiator (probably something in the area of the "human touch").  Trailfinders have done this to a certain extent, appealing predominantly to the young-year-out-traveller and helping them plan their round-the-world-trip.  Im sure theyve still lost business to the internet after consulting with a client but Im also sure theyve succeeded in closing the deal with this approach.

So yes, I feel sorry for Abbey travel, but its business and its life (the internet is not going away). Shanegl's point is excellent, dont like the prices, dont shop there. Abbey are feeling the pinch of the internet but they are expediating the loss of business by incurring this extra charge.  They need to move with the times and identify a positive differentiator if they wish to stay in business.


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## KalEl (22 Aug 2007)

kkelliher said:


> Problem is you cant get the prices without paying the fee......


 
This is not true so why are you saying it?
It has been established they do not charge for quotes...that's why the title of the thread was changed.


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## kkelliher (22 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> This is not true so why are you saying it?
> It has been established they do not charge for quotes....


 
I started the thread detailing what happened in my case. In my case I did have to pay for a quote. I could not have gotten a quote for my holiday without sitting down with the agent. had never been there before, knew nothing about it and didnt even know where to start.

Kalel I understand your point but as I keep saying your points do not refer to me as I had never an intention of booking on the internet or wasting anyones time but I will not be forced to be tied to a company without even having a discussion with them to see what they have to offer.


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## MugsGame (22 Aug 2007)

> we spent the first 5 minutes generally discussing africa





> Spent over an hour in cassidys





> didnt even know where to start.





> discussion with them to see what they have to offer.



Does this sound like someone who was looking for a quote on a specific itinerary?


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## KalEl (22 Aug 2007)

kkelliher said:


> I started the thread detailing what happened in my case. In my case I did have to pay for a quote. I could not have gotten a quote for my holiday without sitting down with the agent. had never been there before, knew nothing about it and didnt even know where to start.
> 
> Kalel I understand your point but as I keep saying your points do not refer to me as I had never an intention of booking on the internet or wasting anyones time but I will not be forced to be tied to a company without even having a discussion with them to see what they have to offer.


 
Absolutely, I hope you didn't think that...I don't think you were timewasting at all-quite the opposite-you did want to book a holiday. My point is you weren't just looking for a quote.
As Mugsgame said, you were looking for advice.


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## kkelliher (22 Aug 2007)

I must question the point of having a travel agent office if you have to be charged to get "advice".

If I knew exactly where i was going, where I was going to stay and for how long, yes I agree I would email them as I wouldnt put myself through the hasstle of making my way in queing and then simply taking 5 minutes to get the quote. In this day and age I cannot see alot of people actually doing this. I would say that most people get quotes by email or phone.

Maybe I am wrong but I would think the majority of people actually going into the office are actually talor making their holidays and therefore if you decide to use Abbey you will be charged for this whereas none of the others seem to charge. This is my point. 

There is no way that abbey dont get a large proportion of their bookings via their website.


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## Sunny (22 Aug 2007)

Was talking to someone who worked for another long haul travel agent last night. First off he did admit they do have alot of people who come in and don't book on the first visit but most of them do come back and book with them. He can see Abbey's point but he said he works on commission and he is more interested in getting people in the door and relying on his own selling technique and expertise and competitive prices to earn commission for the sale rather than charging people for travel advice. He also pointed out that for tailor made long haul holidays that cost 1000's of Euro, people are less likely to use the internet so people are unlikely to run out of Abbey and go straight online. He said if people weren't booking with them after spending the time with the agent and getting ideas, it is more likely to be because they went and got a better quote or idea somewhere else.


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