# building a new house this year



## doyler

planning on going self build route, please share your experiences and advice?


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## baldyman27

Specifically?


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## doyler

2 storey, open plan, lots of glass to the back and 1 big window in the front, 4000 sqr feet. just looking for tips on what not to trip up on?


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## mf1

www.selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com


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## doyler

cheers MF1


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## Kristian

Don't even think about it if you don't have someone to call at 10.00 at night for those late night questions that come into your head!! Also put plenty of money into the misc section when you are doing up the budget!!


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## chlipps

open plan with loads of glass sounds great... did you check out the huf haus? loads of glass, open space, cool etc.. Might be worthwhile to see what their cost would be to allow you evaluate approx saving of going direct labour route


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## krissovo

http://grianan.blogspot.com/

Its an tough journey!


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## Buildright

Buy hair dye and peptic acid XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX in bulk, you'll need them.

Work out all your problems on the drawing board. Good detailed design can make life easier on site. Your design should optimise solar gain, be as compact as possible and eliminate cold bridges. Designing to the passive house concept is a great idea and a good investment, especially with whats coming down the line in fuel prices. Also its a bit classier to have an environmentally friendly house with a constant temperature rather than a celtic tiger era McMansion with loads of fancy sticky-out bits, requiring a massive boiler to heat a leaky badly insulated envelope. Its like filling a bathh with the plug out. 

With the 2010 part L likely to make our current methods of building (cavity wall and kingspan) obsolete it is worth while building a house that will be sellable in 10 years and livable in 20. You need a consultant you can ring at 10pm as kristian advises. You need a qualified Architect or technologist who understands insulation and airtightness and can anylise condensation risk and thermal bridging. Its no longer possible just to get a draftsman, a surveyor or an engineer to do some rudimentary planning drawings and build from those. You need to take on board a consultant who will sign off on building reg compliance on completion. It is essential also to have a contract. 

With higher standards of building and integration of components, the selfbuilder needs to know more than his subbies and be on site full time to check continuity of insulation and that the airtight barrier is not breeched. If you're building a house to live in for the forseeable future, don't accept the standards of the last decade. Push for passive and get a bright comfortable easy to heat home with fresh clean air and lots of light and views. 

Wishin you the best of luck with your build doyler. If you had to take one piece of advise its what my granny told me. Measure twice cut once.


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## sydthebeat

Buildright said:


> Buy hair dye and peptic acid XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX in bulk, you'll need them.
> 
> Work out all your problems on the drawing board. Good detailed design can make life easier on site. Your design should optimise solar gain, be as compact as possible and eliminate cold bridges. Designing to the passive house concept is a great idea and a good investment, especially with whats coming down the line in fuel prices. Also its a bit classier to have an environmentally friendly house with a constant temperature rather than a celtic tiger era McMansion with loads of fancy sticky-out bits, requiring a massive boiler to heat a leaky badly insulated envelope. Its like filling a bathh with the plug out.
> 
> With the 2010 part L likely to make our current methods of building (cavity wall and kingspan) obsolete it is worth while building a house that will be sellable in 10 years and livable in 20. You need a consultant you can ring at 10pm as kristian advises. You need a qualified Architect or technologist who understands insulation and airtightness and can anylise condensation risk and thermal bridging. Its no longer possible just to get a draftsman, a surveyor or an engineer to do some rudimentary planning drawings and build from those. You need to take on board a consultant who will sign off on building reg compliance on completion. It is essential also to have a contract.
> 
> With higher standards of building and integration of components, the selfbuilder needs to know more than his subbies and be on site full time to check continuity of insulation and that the airtight barrier is not breeched. If you're building a house to live in for the forseeable future, don't accept the standards of the last decade. Push for passive and get a bright comfortable easy to heat home with fresh clean air and lots of light and views.
> 
> Wishin you the best of luck with your build doyler. If you had to take one piece of advise its what my granny told me. Measure twice cut once.




excellent, excellent post ...!!!!!


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## Buildright

Thanks buildright, learning these lessons cost clients of mine a small fortune. I was brought in to fix the problems. If they had to do it all again, they would never go direct labour and would have a clerk of works or architect supervising the build and administering the contract at a €300 to 500 weekly fee. But cheap at that price considering double that is wasted on sites by bad building and errors, and who pays for the extra time and materials to put things right, you guessed it. The home owner.


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## baldyman27

Buildright said:


> *Thanks buildright*, learning these lessons cost clients of mine a small fortune. I was brought in to fix the problems. If they had to do it all again, they would never go direct labour and would have a clerk of works or architect supervising the build and administering the contract at a* €300 to 500 weekly fee. But cheap at that price considering double that is wasted on sites by bad building and errors*, and who pays for the extra time and materials to put things right, you guessed it. The home owner.


 
Why are you thanking yourself?

That's a very sweeping statement. Care to back it up?


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## doyler

Thanks Guys for the good advice

i will be meeting my architect tomorrow and discuss same with him


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## sas

baldyman27 said:


> Why are you thanking yourself?


 
Multiple personalities?

We did have an issue with that here in the past...


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## doyler

go easy people i was just looking for a bit of advice


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## Jolly Man

Hi Doyler,

Building your own home can be very challenging and rewarding, sometimes challenging rewarding upsetting all in the one day! Its a rollercoaster ride, at times when bulding ours there were days when i could not wait to get home to see the place and work done on a given day, there were others when i wished the ground would open up and swallow me, and the phone would stop ringing. Keeping on top of it all can be tough but if you have reliable tradesmen that you know, and a friend in the know who you can ask questions of and this site also is great for that.
By self build i presume you mean getting in the various trades to do each aspect of work, ie Site clearence, FDN'S up to floor level, block work, roof, plastering electrics and so on, as long as these guys are reliable they wont steer yo too far wrong. Set a budget and monitor it constantly things can spiral easily and you will be left going back to try and get an increase on the mortgage or an unfinished house, there are more and more of these appearing in the countryside everyday.
If you have your house design in hand i would if i was you send it out to tender to builders and also price it on a per trade basis and see where the savings are for you, or if the savings are worth the hassle of the managment!!! At the end of the day if i was asked would i build again 6 or 8 months ago i would say deff yes but now umm im not so sure!!!! Ill be posting to my blog soon again summarising the whole experience so keep an eye out.

www.selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com


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## doyler

Hi Jolly Man

yes planning on getting the different required people in our sleves.

I will send it out to a few builders and see what there prices are like, i do have someone i can ask a few questions to so hopefully that will help us on our way.

cheers for the advice will be watching your blog


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## Buildright

baldyman27 said:


> Why are you thanking yourself?
> 
> That's a very sweeping statement. Care to back it up?




that was me with my builders hat on thanking me with my project manager hat on. Nothing wrong with being bipolar. 

When talking about wastage on site. You don't know whats badly built unless you pressure test, using thermal imaging and fog machines. then you see all manner of air leaks, 5 air changes is like leaving the back door open when heating your house. Thermography and smoke finds HRV ducting problems, incorrretly installed or missing insulation, problems in underfloor plumbing, tears or holes in Vapor control and windtight layers. 

This only applies to low energy builds, for your average minimum standard or building regulation standard houses are happy enough to have air leakage paths and cold bridges as the oil boiler system is oversized and oil is cheap now. For them Building performance is not important, for now!.
A good test if you cant afford an air test kit. is to block up all vents and have someone walk around your house blowing a whistle moderatly, you shouldn't hear it with proper window installation and continuity of insulation and airtightness sealing arround services. If sound is not damped by a perceived 45-50db in daytime, then heat will easily escape through those same paths. With no building control in ireland, builders have being getting away with murder. You set out to build a house with an asset energy performance level of 90kwh/m2/an primary energy and following practical completion are left with a building which performs at 160kwh/m2/an if energy bills for a year in use are analysed. (excluding the first 2 months for drying out, and the fabric to absorb some thermal inertia)


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## baldyman27

This still hasn't answered my question. You stated that between E600 and E1000 a week is wasted on sites through errors. Where do you get these figures from? What kind of sites are you referring to? One-offs or large sacle developments? Whatever kind of a site you refer to, can you categorically state that a minimum of E600 is wasted through errors on every one of these sites? I realise that you are promoting your own profession here and that's fair enough, but you shouldn't do so at the expense of others who may be perfectly competent and professional in their work.


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## Buildright

Look, you only have to correct work if you are trying to achieve a certain standard of performance in the finished building. Thanks for indulging me I happen to have a strong opinion on this. If you have decided to build minimum standrd houses then ignore me. The best investment in building a house after insulating it, is to eliminate cold bridges and get air leakage below 1.5 airchanges. If this isn't designed into the build from the very start, it has to be fixed. On some sites this means taking off the finishes layer to correct the vapor barrier and holes put in by services cables and pipes and plasterboard screws, on 2 sites this has cost between 10,000 to 15,000 to correct and delayed completion by 3 weeks. I'm talking one off, 200-250 meter square houses, where architectural details were not provided. The builder thought a rudimentary knowledge of airtightness and insulation was sufficient and the window guys couldn't install properly. Timber frame House in down the country has the airtightness guy on site for two weeks, taping every stable to get a better sealed house to get passive certification. I really think there is no point building anything less than passive when you consider the our economic future and the price of energy. Talk to those in the know to get the full picture, I had a chat with a fund manager who tells me oil will be $200 in 3 years and the IMF will be brought in to fix our economy. So we're building homes for the 21st certury and mistakes are being made. My point is that the biggest mistake is not to draw every detail before the build starts and employ a clerk of works. I would recommend an architect or technician for contract administration and quality control, but they know bugger all about delivering passive standard housing.


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## sydthebeat

Buildright said:


> I would recommend an architect or technician for contract administration and quality control, but they know bugger all about delivering passive standard housing.



dont tar us all with the same brush...

similarly with low energy cars, low energy housing takes a wjile to seep into teh mainstream... 

architects and technicians are being taught the principles and practises required.... trades persons are slower in the uptake on training....

there are people out there with the skills required, it just takes a bit of looking to find them...


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## Buildright

Ya , your right Syd, Architects and technicians are learning and more importantly are eager to learn, but just like the BER, there are those who will use this as an opportunity to charge a fortune for very basic courses and later at some stage registration, and make a tidy sum therein. My problem is not with the arch's and tech's, its with the lack of support from SEI and the Institute of Architects. Ireland leads the English speaking world in passive house, we could build an industry out of this. However our of mediocre midlands political dynasties parocial mindset lacks the forsight and vision to turn our strengths into wealth. Sure ya can't be doin dat.


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## sydthebeat

Buildright said:


> Ya , your right Syd, Architects and technicians are learning and more importantly are eager to learn, but just like the BER, there are those who will use this as an opportunity to charge a fortune for very basic courses and later at some stage registration, and make a tidy sum therein. My problem is not with the arch's and tech's, its with the lack of support from SEI and the Institute of Architects. Ireland leads the English speaking world in passive house, we could build an industry out of this. However our of mediocre midlands political dynasties parocial mindset lacks the forsight and vision to turn our strengths into wealth. Sure ya can't be doin dat.



agreed....

we need to do this by ourselves and not rely on central government set ups.... the SEI do not iunderstand teh science behind what they are supposed to be the 'go to guys' in.... teh BER system has decended into a shambles...


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## baldyman27

Buildright said:


> Look, you only have to correct work if you are trying to achieve a certain standard of performance in the finished building.


 
That clarifies it for me, thanks. Your earlier posts seemed to suggest that every house built in the country were faced with the problems you talk about.



Buildright said:


> on 2 sites this has cost between 10,000 to 15,000 to correct and delayed completion by 3 weeks.


 
While I agree with the notion that houses should be constructed to be as efficient as possible, I think that often the cost of ultra-efficient construction is more than will ever be saved. I don't have facts and figures to argue with but I do know that people spend a small fortune on energy efficiency and it boggles my mind to see how it can ever repay itself. That's my two cents worth and of course I stand to be corrected.


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## Buildright

baldyman27 said:


> people spend a small fortune on energy efficiency and it boggles my mind to see how it can ever repay itself.


 
Good point my folicaly challenged friend. We are being told to bolt on heat pumps and solar panels to our new houses, equipment like this can have a payback of over 30 years. But to design a compact well orientated house costs nothing and insulation is cheap. A low energy house needn't cost any more than conventional. The way the industry is going, is to build conventional buildings and stick headpumps and boilers on to bring down the amount of primary energy. An utra low energy house can be cheaper, as you can spend the money you would have put into the heating system into a ventilation system.


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## doyler

god i think i might aswell give up now if thats the case 600-1000 per week who ever is lossing this on a site is not keeping there eye on the ball!!!


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## Corner

Buildright said:


> With the 2010 part L likely to make our current methods of building (cavity wall and kingspan) obsolete it is worth while building a house that will be sellable in 10 years and livable in 20.
> 
> Its no longer possible just to get a draftsman, a surveyor or an engineer to do some rudimentary planning drawings and build from those. You need to take on board a consultant who will sign off on building reg compliance on completion. It is essential also to have a contract.


 
Hi Buildright, really ejnoyed reading this thread! Most informative and gets you thinking! If cavity walls and kingspan is becoming obsolete is it not the case that it will still comply with Part L Bldg Regs anyway? Also, I would have thought that any qualified architect would could sign-off on building compliance.


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## kkelliher

No point in worryying about the saleability of your house in 10 or 20 years given that all the other houses built in every part of the country wont comply with the updated regs anyway.


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## Buildright

kkelliher said:


> No point in worryying about the saleability of your house in 10 or 20 years given that all the other houses built in every part of the country wont comply with the updated regs anyway.




Houses built post 2010 will comply with the 2010 regs. By 2020 energy production from Oil will be 4 times scarcer that means at least 4 times more expensive. The time to address that fact is now, when energy intensive processes are cheap. Of course value in property will be related to supply of land in desirable locations. Very soon one off houses will no longer be permitted except in exceptional circumstances due to the social cost of providing services and pressure on groundwater and aquafers, brought on by the Water framer work directive good water status in 2012. So our country and western dormer bungalows might still be valuable. Of course with the end of CAP subsidies in 2013 and higher fuel prices, Urbanism might become fashionable again. We will likely demolish the ghost estates on the outskirts of our towns to create communities with more choices of housing types. The village in cloughjordan should provide a good blueprint for future communities




			
				conormark said:
			
		

> If cavity walls and kingspan is becoming obsolete is it not the case that it will still comply with Part L Bldg Regs anyway? Also, I would have thought that any qualified architect would could sign-off on building compliance.



Cavity walls are already obsolete as you have to increase the width over 110mm to 150 or else dryline. Drylining blockwork is never a good idea as it pushes the dewpoint back into the room. This innevatably leads to dampness behind the lining and mould growth. Without adequate and controllable ventilation our houses will smell damp and mouldy in 4 to 5 years. We live in a very humid climate, add to that occupancy produces about 10 litres of water vapour per day, that needs to be ventilated or if it condenses on or in the wall fabric, it needs to diffuse out through the wall.

Architects, engineers and surveyors can all sign compliance, oddly enough only some technologists can sign off. It is critical that your house designer understands pasive house design principles and has a rudimentary knowledge of building physics. I am constantly meeting people who got the plannin done cheap and now live in defective dark poky hovells often designed by structural engineers. Good designers are cheap at the moment. Its pricey to have someone on board for the build process advising you on specification and decisions on site. But it will save you money on the building contract.


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## baldyman27

Buildright, please amend your post as you are attributing a quote to me that I didn't make, whatever my opinion may be on it.


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## Buildright

OOPs sorry Baldyman, my bad. corrected now


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## kkelliher

Buildright said:


> Houses built post 2010 will comply with the 2010 regs. By 2020 energy production from Oil will be 4 times scarcer that means at least 4 times more expensive. The time to address that fact is now, when energy intensive processes are cheap. Of course value in property will be related to supply of land in desirable locations. Very soon one off houses will no longer be permitted except in exceptional circumstances due to the social cost of providing services and pressure on groundwater and aquafers, brought on by the Water framer work directive good water status in 2012. So our country and western dormer bungalows might still be valuable. Of course with the end of CAP subsidies in 2013 and higher fuel prices, Urbanism might become fashionable again. We will likely demolish the ghost estates on the outskirts of our towns to create communities with more choices of housing types. The village in cloughjordan should provide a good blueprint for future communities


 
Not looking like there is going to be very many of these built given present market conditions which accoring to news today has pushed recovery out another year to 2011  ...........


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## Corner

Buildright said:


> Cavity walls are already obsolete as you have to increase the width over 110mm to 150 or else dryline.


 
Thanks buildright! As regards the cavity width, we are considering building them 200mm wide and installing an additional sheet on insulation. I would be interested to know what your view is on this. Open to any suggestions by the way. As our house will have a natural stone finish with sash windows, we also thought the thicker walls would add to the effect of an old farm-style house. A friend of mine has built his house this way (with the 200mm cavaties) and it looks the part I must say.


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## Buildright

Conor Mark

If using insulation boards, these are foil faced and foil backed so you must use 100 on the inside and 60 on the outside. That way any moisture trapped betwen the sheet will tend to migrate outwards.

The stone you are using outside wouldnot be ntural stone. Its a veneer on the facade its fake. You wouldn't stick Jordan on to the front of your house, so whu do the same with stone. Vernacular farm houses were build using a few simple rules, follow them and you'll have an attractive building. the building should be tailoredfor its particular site. Countyside buildings look best when viewed from a distance, so detail like stone and decorative bargeboards gets lost once viewed from more than 100 metres away. Composition is also important. If you were going to a fancydinner, you wouldn't wear all your favorite clothes at once, a simple well cut black suit or dress does the job, as it has done since 1920, if you want to be fancy, accessorise. So it is with house design. Simple style never goes out of fashion. Good shape, confident proportions, simpleform and well sited is all a building needs to be. If you want to use stone, put it inside where it will be dry and th eviewer will be close enough to see the craft involved in building a dry stone wall and the warmth of the sandstone under halogen lights.

As for the sash windows, wha century are we living in? we have treble glazing and low conductivity frames. Planners can't dictate on building details. If the dept of transport took the same view, we'd be driving around with goggles, white scarves and driving gloves. An adhoc policy on housing won't be solved by putting twee 18th century cottage windows in new houses.


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## Corner

Thanks buildright. Our house is an Edwardian style house rather than a traditional farm-style house. (I've been promptly corrected by my better half!!) We are indeed looking for the traditional look on the inside of the house but that's a story for another day. As regards the stone, it is indeed natural stone we are using and not the fake stuff.

With the insulation boards, if both the 100mm board and 60mm board are installed back-to-back attached to the inner leaf of the cavity wall, what is considered the best method of 'tieing' both together? I think I've read somewhere that small cold-air currents can circulate between (1) the insulation boards if not secured tightly against each other and (2) if the inner board is not secured tight to the inner leaf wall. 

With the sash widndows, the planning authority did not dictate this, it was our decision and we have seen these used on a similar style dwelling to ours and they really set it off. If it looks like we're living an another century then so be it! I am still considering using treble glazing on the north facing part of the house at least. Could you (or anyone else) recommend any reputable windows/doors suppliers? Thanks again for taking the time to respond.


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## Leo

conormark said:


> Could you (or anyone else) recommend any reputable windows/doors suppliers? Thanks again for taking the time to respond.


 
Please seek recommendations in the appropriate forum. Any posted here will be removed.
Leo


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## sydthebeat

conormark said:


> Thanks buildright. Our house is an Edwardian style house rather than a traditional farm-style house. (I've been promptly corrected by my better half!!) We are indeed looking for the traditional look on the inside of the house but that's a story for another day. As regards the stone, it is indeed natural stone we are using and not the fake stuff.
> 
> With the insulation boards, if both the 100mm board and 60mm board are installed back-to-back attached to the inner leaf of the cavity wall, what is considered the best method of 'tieing' both together? I think I've read somewhere that small cold-air currents can circulate between (1) the insulation boards if not secured tightly against each other and (2) if the inner board is not secured tight to the inner leaf wall.
> 
> With the sash widndows, the planning authority did not dictate this, it was our decision and we have seen these used on a similar style dwelling to ours and they really set it off. If it looks like we're living an another century then so be it! I am still considering using treble glazing on the north facing part of the house at least. Could you (or anyone else) recommend any reputable windows/doors suppliers? Thanks again for taking the time to respond.



conormark.....

have you found a wall tie on the market that is certified for use on a 200mm cavity??


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## doyler

sorry


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## Buildright

Conormark,

Ya Edwardian is nice, here's me reminiscing about the grand 'ole days of the empire, servants in the basement and potties under the beds, ah it brings a tear to my monocle. I think the institute of architects needs to take a good look at itself, seeing how much the people of this country despise contemporary architectural design in favour of 'ye olde worlde styles'. 

Back to the present, the insulation boards should be taped, with the outer layer having staggered joints. Low conductivity wall ties. The inner wall build first, insulation fitted tight to about a foot below the dpc level. At the windows you have to use a fire rated cavity closer. This gives 100 insulation rather than the 25mm used in standard cavity closing.

I'm finding it difficult to recommend window companies at the mo. Standards of installation need to be improved. Installers love that expandable foam stuff. Its useless for airtightnes. For sash windows there is a company called wood....  they are a good window for heritage buildings.

Ancon two part wall tie has been approved by my structural engineer.


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## Corner

sydthebeat said:


> conormark.....
> 
> have you found a wall tie on the market that is certified for use on a 200mm cavity??


 
My friend who built the 200mm cavity sourced suitable wall ties but he has warned me they are approx 1.5times the price of a standard tie. Not sure where he purchased them but will check it out and make sure they're certified.


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## Corner

Buildright said:


> Conormark,
> 
> Ya Edwardian is nice, hers me reminiscing about the grand 'ole days of the empire, servants in the basement and potties under the beds, ah it brings a tear to my monocle. I think the institute of architects needs to take a good look at itself, seeing how much the people of this country despise contemporary architectural design in favour of 'ye olde worlde styles'.
> 
> Back to the present, the insulation boards should be taped, with the outer layer having staggered joints. Low conductivity wall ties. The inner wall build first, insulation fitted tight to about a foot below the dpc level. At the windows you have to use a fire rated cavity closer. This gives 100 insulation rather than the 25mm used in standard cavity closing.
> 
> I'm finding it difficult to recommend window companies at the mo. Standards of installation need to be improved. Installers love that expandable foam stuff. Its useless for airtightnes. For sash windows there is a company called wood.... they are a good window for heritage buildings.
> 
> Ancon two part wall tie has been approved by my structural engineer.


 
Thanks Buildright!


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## sydthebeat

conormark said:


> My friend who built the 200mm cavity sourced suitable wall ties but he has warned me they are approx 1.5times the price of a standard tie. Not sure where he purchased them but will check it out and make sure they're certified.



thanks, could you post the names and product on here...... id appreciate that!!


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## Corner

sydthebeat said:


> thanks, could you post the names and product on here...... id appreciate that!!


 

no probs, waiting on feedback as we speak!


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## Corner

Sydthebeat, go to [broken link removed] for wall-ties.


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## bov2

Conormark / Buildright etc
I have been following this tread with interest.  I am close to beginning my own home in the near future and was contemplating a 200mm cavity also.  I have looked at 200 cavity with full fill blown bead insulation using Teplo wall ties.  I'd be interested in any opinions on this build up and mainly the use of full fill bead?

Regards,
Bov2


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## Corner

bov2 said:


> Conormark / Buildright etc
> I have been following this tread with interest. I am close to beginning my own home in the near future and was contemplating a 200mm cavity also. I have looked at 200 cavity with full fill blown bead insulation using Teplo wall ties. I'd be interested in any opinions on this build up and mainly the use of full fill bead?
> 
> Regards,
> Bov2


 
Hi Bov2, I am am still trying to decide on exactly what composition of insulation I will use in the cavities; one of my friends who has used 200mm cavities has been living in his house for approx 1.5yrs and the last time I spoke with him he was very satisfied with the performance of the dwelling and had used limited fuel in that time. From memory, he uses a 60mm Kingspan board (standard, not the Kooltherm higher-spec product) and has filled the remainder of the cavity with beads. I'm still wrecking his head with questions so any info I get I will post. Hard to beat 1st hand real-life experiences. 

Without going into any science, 200mm cavities have got to pay dividends in terms of energy efficiency. I mean look at the sheer physical amouunt of insulation you can get into that size of a cavity. Maybe someone else has a different angle on it and I would be delighted to hear the pro's and con's. I would have thought if your house is insulated to an excellent standard then maybe the heat source you choose is not just as critical.

Someone mentioned to me recently however that when you use natural stone, you should retain a cavity space which may not be as achievable with the use of beads. I'm no expert by any means but maybe somone else could jump in here and confirm if this is accurate or not?

I personally have only heard positive stories regarding the use of beads.

Another thing to realise is that 200mm cavities leave us with thicker walls which I am hoping will produce good effect in my Edwardian style house.

i checked out the Teplo wall ties you have mentioned and their website says that they're currently being tested for BBA certificatrion in the UK. Are there any issues with using these in ROI in terms of compliance with building regs? Thanks for letting us know about the Teplo ties! I must get a quote for my house from them.


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## sydthebeat

conormark said:


> i checked out the Teplo wall ties you have mentioned and their website says that they're currently being tested for BBA certificatrion in the UK. Are there any issues with using these in ROI in terms of compliance with building regs? Thanks for letting us know about the Teplo ties! I must get a quote for my house from them.



conor...

no certification = do not use....

im in the process of checking if the ties you linked to have certification.... they DO appear to be a much better product... the teplo ties is nothing more that a rebar!!...


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## Corner

sydthebeat said:


> conor...
> 
> no certification = do not use....
> 
> im in the process of checking if the ties you linked to have certification.... they DO appear to be a much better product... the teplo ties is nothing more that a rebar!!...


 
yes, on irst impressions I thought the Teplo tie looked somewhat unusual for a wall-tie. Please let us know re certification on the other ties.


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## Corner

bov2 said:


> Conormark / Buildright etc
> I have been following this tread with interest. I am close to beginning my own home in the near future and was contemplating a 200mm cavity also. I have looked at 200 cavity with full fill blown bead insulation using Teplo wall ties. I'd be interested in any opinions on this build up and mainly the use of full fill bead?
> 
> Regards,
> Bov2


 
Hi Bov2, since I posted my last thread, I have looked at another possible way of doing the cavity; instead of making the cavity 200mm, I could make it the standard 100mm wide and use a higher, more dense grade of insulation board (such as Kingspan's 'Kooltherm' product) and fill the rest of the cavity with beads. The 'Kooltherm' is more expensive however but I would save on the wall ties and less beads. I could also build the cavity 150mm and use the same combination. The reason for my change in thought, although undecided, is that my architect has designed part of my house with the inner leaf walls built 'on their flat' i.e. 215mm leaving the overall wall section much thicker. I am conerrned this would impact too much on daylight penetration. The reason I have been given for the 215mm wall is due to the 'span' of the rooms i.e. they are around 5500mm but I want to check this out for myself as I have not come across this before in dwellings. Maybe it is common and hopefully someone out there could advise or has come across this before?


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## Buildright

The big assumption there is that you trust that the Kingspan Kooltherm's u valus for hot box test are similar to simulated installed u values. Well let me tell you that they are not even close, in fact the stated o.27 u values are closer 0.46 in practice due to thermal bridging and looping. Its one thing fitting insulation for a lab, quite another doing it on site.


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## boots

Would the addition of the beads to the Kooltherm insulation bring the combined U-Value up to the level required?
I'm hoping to build this year also and am very interested in this topic.
From what I can see adding the beads to the kooltherm is maybe a achievable belt and braces approach, whilst also minimising complications at construction....then again this is my first build so am open to correction.
Boots


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## Corner

Buildright said:


> The big assumption there is that you trust that the Kingspan Kooltherm's u valus for hot box test are similar to simulated installed u values. Well let me tell you that they are not even close, in fact the stated o.27 u values are closer 0.46 in practice due to thermal bridging and looping. Its one thing fitting insulation for a lab, quite another doing it on site.


 
that's a good point Buildright and is being realistic and practical about the issue. since I last posted, I have been giving the insulated dry-lining plasterboard some consideration (Kingspan K18, 50mm made up of 37.5mm insulation and 12.5mm plasterboard). maybe using it in conjunction with 60mm Kooltherm (K8, in the cavity) and no beads. would be interested to hear any comments on this approach. I have spoken to other home owners who have built in the past 2 years and used this type of a approach and have been very happy with it.


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## Corner

boots said:


> Would the addition of the beads to the Kooltherm insulation bring the combined U-Value up to the level required?
> I'm hoping to build this year also and am very interested in this topic.
> From what I can see adding the beads to the kooltherm is maybe a achievable belt and braces approach, whilst also minimising complications at construction....then again this is my first build so am open to correction.
> Boots


 
not sure Boots...i didnt really check much out on the u-values on the beads as of yet. maybe someone else can jump in here?


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## NialloKyoto

I'll also be building this autumn and I'm a bit confused too. I was advised that insulation beading was a very good way of reducing drafts within the cavity, but does anyone know if this creates an issue in terms of providing effective weep holes?

At the moment, I'm leaning towards Aeroboard's Aeromark Platinum, 140mm thick to suit a 150mm cavity. I'm also probably going to use Qwik-Fix glass fibre wall ties. They're cheaper than Teplo-Ties and certified to BS EN 845-1.

[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]

This should give me walls of normal enough thickness, a U-value of 0.20 W/m2k and effective weep holes. Can anyone punch holes in this for me?


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## house

Hi all. 

i too, hope to build soon, im just wondering where ye are getting your information, is it from website or have ye approached someone to design and propose insulation for ye?

earlier in the thread, people were talking about air changes, and my question is; if a 2 leaf cavity wall fixed with mortar in all the joints, is then plastered externally and internally, a roof is felted and slated, windows & doors fixed by a joinery, and all samll builders ope are sealed with mastic, where or how does the air changes acur, or why to we need a specialist to do the above, i know cold briding is a different topic!

thanks


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## NialloKyoto

@ house

The fundamental reason for a cavity wall is not insulation, it's drainage. Bricks, mortar and render are semi-permeable so it's inevitable with our construction methods that some moisture will creep past the first line of defence, i.e. the rainscreen, veneer, outer leaf wall...whatever you want to call it. 

Expansion gaps are sealed with mastic, but you still have to install weep holes at regular intervals to allow the moisture to drain out of the cavity. This also facilitates air exchange. 

Having an air gap is regarded by many as healthy in a cavity wall because it provides a chamber to effect pressure equalisation across the exterior leaf to counteract forces that drive moisture through the building envelope. Air movement also helps dry the wall components. 

This is all great, but I'm confused why some engineers prefer cavity closers and bead insulation which both restrict this airflow. Has anyone got any ideas on this?


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## ++cathal+

HI,

Dose any one know what the builing cost are now per sq foot?


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## barry251

Have you thought about the cost of heating such a large house


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## Jolly Man

Huge variation out there depending on spec of finish, geographical location, method of building, procurement route choosen you can go as low as €65/sqft and as high as you want a good spec carried out by a builder €120/sqft  basic builders finish €75/80/sqft

www.selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com


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## ++cathal+

HI, that for that Jolly Man.


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## house

nialloKyoto, 

the air changes you are refering to are in the cavity, i had thought that earlier comments on this thread that the air changes were through out the house?

even including weep holes from cavity to the external does no explain how htere is air changes in an internal room, if blocks are properly buttered, and then plastered on the internal face and all window doors & builders opes are sealed!


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## sydthebeat

house said:


> nialloKyoto,
> 
> the air changes you are refering to are in the cavity, i had thought that earlier comments on this thread that the air changes were through out the house?
> 
> even including weep holes from cavity to the external does no explain how htere is air changes in an internal room, if blocks are properly buttered, and then plastered on the internal face and all window doors & builders opes are sealed!



Elements in houses move!!!!

Thats a basic accepted premise in building physics. This movement can be caused by shrinking due to drying out, expansion / shrinking due to heating, movement due to differential settlement of foundations, movemnet due to increased spot loadings on building elements etc.

All builders can do is minimise the risks. Sealing around openings with membranes and tapes will significantly reduce risk of sir infiltration. You will also have issues at junctions of floors and walls, and at ceilings and walls. If plasterwork is not properly carried to screed level, and the skirting board is not properly fixed and sealed, the air infiltration will occur. Remember, concrete blocks and concrete mortar are not airtight. Also, at the ceiling, timber joists will move independent of the plastered wall so gaps may occur. this introduces a gap at the wall plate level, which is never completely air tightly fixed to the block wall... air infiltration will occur here.

refer to the UKs planning portal web site accredited details to reduce risk of air infiltration.


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## house

Niallokyoto & Corner 

its about 4 months since this post was last discussed, im just wondering how ye guys got on with your respective builds?? 

200mm pumped cavities / dryling / external insulation 
what did ye go with in the end ?? and how are you finding construction?

i currently leaing toward the pumped 200mm cavity wondering if ye have any pointers for me??


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