# ESB Bill massive



## krun81 (28 Jan 2020)

Hi all,

I recently moved into an apartment. And I just got my second (meter read bill) the cost of the bill was 300 euro, this seems very excessive. 

I'm trying to figure out what the appliance is that is causing the cost. Any suggestions?

- Electric Heaters - runs for 2 hours in 2 rooms per day and possibly 30 mins in the morning  - it's these radiators - DSM Electric Combination Radiators  (brand new)
- Hot tank for showers - connected to electric pump shower takes 1 hour to heat per day, have to use "boost" to get a hot shower.
- Washer Dryer combo (new AAA energy rated) runs mostly at weekends but takes ages.

I was thinking it must be the hot tank and I am investigating having an electric shower installed.

Thanks for any tips

Energy usage for living room heater attached: https://ibb.co/C5FLGbz


----------



## Leo (29 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> Electric Heaters - runs for 2 hours in 2 rooms per day and possibly 30 mins in the morning - it's these radiators - DSM Electric Combination Radiators (brand new)



What ratings are the heaters? Looks like they come in models ranging from 800W to 3000W. The 3000W ones will use up to 3kWh or 3 units of electricity for each hour of use. 



krun81 said:


> - Hot tank for showers - connected to electric pump shower takes 1 hour to heat per day, have to use "boost" to get a hot shower.



Most likely a 3kWh heating element, so again, up to 3 units of electricity for each hour of use. 



krun81 said:


> - Washer Dryer combo (new AAA energy rated) runs mostly at weekends but takes ages.



Look up the energy plate or manual, should tell you how much energy each cycle consumes.


----------



## elcato (29 Jan 2020)

Mine is about 150 to 160 in the winter. Something similar to you but I only heat one room on a 'kind of' storage heater which is always on. Are you sure the first bill was not estimated and was a much lower reading ?
Also those heaters may be expensive and you may have left them or the immersion on by mistake. When you boost make sure you turn the switch off again when complete or it may start up on a timer.


----------



## krun81 (29 Jan 2020)

Hi all,

Thanks for responses.  The meter was read last two times since I moved in.

One bill was 230 (I had a credit on the account after I moved from the last place), there other 320.

I contacted ESB who asked me to plug things in one at a time wait 20 minutes and try again... to see which appliance it is...

I checked the energy usage on the heaters there is an app and contacted the supplier to double-check I was reading it correctly.

It works out at 32 euro for living room for December for Technotherm 1400W Energy Efficient Radiator (the other two are half that size). I've two other ones, they are used less often maybe half.

I checked out the energy rating on the other washer/dryer it says  "Annual Energy Consumption    208 kWh/annum" It is this model (http://www.montpellier-appliances.c...tpellier-mwdi7555-integrated-washing-machine/)

I suspect the water boiler, which I do switch to off after an hour heating.  I do have a blow heater in the bathroom which spends about 40 mins average running per day when we are washing after work in total, and also an electric towel heater that is on for an hour daily.

I spoke with work colleagues with large families (it's just two here) and they were about 180 in winter.

I've hired a REC electrician to do a fill wiring check on Monday and see if he can find some fault. When I first moved here the power blew every few days, an electrician said he fixed that issue... He said he can also issue me with a cert to prove wiring is ok.

Other than that I'm just going to be more careful I suppose.. I'm actually always conscious of my usage so I don't understand why it's so high.

Thanks again.


----------



## elcato (29 Jan 2020)

You have access to the meter ? If it's whirring around try switching things off and on again one by one. I'd be reading it every day either way to see if that gives any clues.


----------



## Leo (29 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> I spoke with work colleagues with large families (it's just two here) and they were about 180 in winter.



Are you comparing like for like? Are they using electric heating and what are the BER ratings of the two properties?


----------



## elcato (30 Jan 2020)

The most obvious thing to check is the heaters and the immersion. Are either on a timer so they come on when you're out or asleep ?


----------



## jpd (30 Jan 2020)

This is an Excel spreadsheet I used to audit our electricity usage

You need to enter the appliances, their power rating in use and in standby mode, the minutes each is used every day


----------



## odyssey06 (30 Jan 2020)

Leo said:


> Are you comparing like for like? Are they using electric heating and what are the BER ratings of the two properties?



And how are they drying their clothes.


----------



## RedOnion (30 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> I do have a blow heater in the bathroom which spends about 40 mins average running per day


That alone could be adding 20 - 30 to each bill. They tend to be 2 - 3kw usage.

@jpd has shared a very detailed spreadsheet if you've time to go through every appliance, but focus on the heating: radiators, towel rails, fan heater, cooker, immersion, etc.


----------



## krun81 (30 Jan 2020)

Thanks everyone for response. Congrats on the excel sheet, I will give it a try.

I rang ESB again and got someone very helpful and they have said there must be some sort of wiring issue, that the bill is too high (about 1000 units more - if i understood him correctly), all the usage is during the day he said. 

It was suggested that the boiler could be the cause, and may need a service...

I turned on everything, cooker, heating, boiler, etc (except washer dryer) and the meter only went up six digits on the meter, seems little to me. So I'm not sure at what time the usage jumps.

The heater is manually turned on and off at night, so not running constantly, the boiler manually on for an hour daily on boost.

I have a the Electrician coming in the morning to do "Periodic Inspection Report"  which is 350 9ex VAT)  (apparently I should have had this done when I moved in) so I hope that turns up something.

As others pointed out it could be the fan heater in the bathroom or the dryer. I've not tested the meter with the dryer running. 

Regarding comparing like with like, I've asked people at work with 3-4 kids in 3-4 bedroom houses, aside from the electric heating (they seem to have gas) their bills are around 180 max. I know for sure my heating costs as I've monitored these. 

It's just two of us basically in one room flat from 7pm and leave at 7am (except weekends), so even if we used all those appliances would it not be difficult to rack up that amount?

Thanks again for tips


----------



## Leo (30 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> aside from the electric heating (they seem to have gas) their bills are around 180 max.



It's very difficult to compare so, and house versus apartment further complicates it. You could add them to ass what they are spending in total on electricity & gas and comparing that to your total. But, electric heating is much more expensive than gas.


----------



## krun81 (30 Jan 2020)

True. But i know my electric bill for heating was approx 40 euro for December, the heaters energy usage is monitored. I lived in a similar apartment before that was colder and heat was on even longer and i often forgot the boiler and my bill came to about 140 or 150.  There is a screen grab of their usage in the first post.


----------



## Leo (31 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> True. But i know my electric bill for heating was approx 40 euro for December, the heaters energy usage is monitored.



And what about hot water? Those with gas boilers will be using those for water heating for the most part.



krun81 said:


> and i often forgot the boiler



What boiler? 



krun81 said:


> There is a screen grab of their usage in the first post.



ibb isn't the most trustworthy of hosting sites, so I won't be clicking that.


----------



## krun81 (31 Jan 2020)

Yes, unfortunately I must concluded it's my usage....

I had the electrician in. The electric heaters he was happy they were not too expensive as far as electric heaters go. About 40 quid for December which was the worse month.

The baddies he said were, the fan heater and towel heater in bathroom, the weekend dryer usage and the water boiler usage (unavoidable - but I can be more careful) He suggested heating the boiler  at night time (leave it on all the time on auto basically) when rates are lower, but I take my showers at night so it would be cold by then. Does anyone do this, is it better than having in on for an hour on boost?

Thanks again everyone for the help, this really helped wake me up to my usage.


----------



## odyssey06 (31 Jan 2020)

krun81 said:


> The baddies he said were, the fan heater and towel heater in bathroom, the weekend dryer usage and the water boiler usage (unavoidable - but I can be more careful) He suggested heating the boiler  at night time (leave it on all the time on auto basically) when rates are lower, but I take my showers at night so it would be cold by then. Does anyone do this, is it better than having in on for an hour on boost?



How are your rates lower at night? Are you in some sort of NightSaver tariff?


----------



## elcato (3 Feb 2020)

krun81 said:


> He suggested heating the boiler at night time (leave it on all the time on auto basically) when rates are lower, but I take my showers at night so it would be cold by then. Does anyone do this, is it better than having in on for an hour on boost?


OK this is known as the immersion heater as oppose to boiler as they are totally different. One hour will use 3 units during the day is probably 60 cents and 30 cents at night. not a good idea to leave it on imo. If you change to showering at 6 am in the morning you will halve this cost for the hour you currently use it.
Read your meter every day at the same time and take a count for average use. Then stop using the fan heater to see whether it's less.


----------



## krun81 (4 Feb 2020)

Yes. I am on a "night saver". 

I switched the immersion heater to night time mode called "off peak". 

It comes on from 4 to 8am as far as I can tell. The water is still very hot by night time shower. I'm not sure I will save using this method. As four hours off peak is surely the same or more than 1-2 hours on boost during the day rate.


----------



## Monbretia (4 Feb 2020)

Is 4 hours not a lot to have an immersion on?  I'm no expert but I only put my immersion on for max 20mins or so to get a short shower out of it, 5 mins would do enough water to wash dishes for example.  They are very heavy on electricity.

Have you not seen Des Bishop


----------



## Leo (4 Feb 2020)

Monbretia said:


> but I only put my immersion on for max 20mins or so to get a short shower out of it,



Is yours a pumped shower though? Can be a significant difference in flow rate.


----------



## elcato (4 Feb 2020)

So 4 hours night time at 3KW immersion is the same as 6 units per day. I use it for 30 to 40 minutes daytime mostly which is max 2 units. 4 units per day is 80 cent times 60 days = 48 euros per bill more than I use in a one bed apartment. Add your 40 minutes fan heater and towel heater, the fact that there are two people, that you probably use the washing machine more often than I, you have a drier. You would be well over a a hundred per bill more than mine. My winter bill is 180 and I'm on the cheapest provider as I move every year. I think your bill is correct given the information posted.
1) Switch off towel heater
2) Stop using fan heater for 40 minutes (a quick 3 minutes boost warms the place up quickly)
3) Consider using the boost rather than night time heating BUT this could be tricky if you're on a dual thermostat
4) Do you have a dish washer ? If not then you won't have water on demand for cleaning dishes if you change above.


----------



## Monbretia (4 Feb 2020)

That is true, there is a pump, not part of the shower as such as tank is downstairs and shower is upstairs so it's a pump in the hotpress that I had to install to have hot water upstairs at all.  Not sure what that system is technically called.  Although if I wanted to give grandkids a bath, now not a very full bath obviously I would still only give it about 20/30 mins to get sufficient hot water.


Re fan heater too, I have one of those but would only use for very quick heat in morning to get dressed or similar, if I want a longer period of heat I use an oil filled radiator, not instant but cheaper once it gets going.


----------



## krun81 (4 Feb 2020)

thanks @elcato the same conclusions as I have come to. I've stopped the fan heater completer, the towel heater will get about 45 mins per day now. Dryer usage reduced considerably and the clothes horse has been dusted down!


----------



## demoivre (4 Feb 2020)

krun81 said:


> thanks @elcato the same conclusions as I have come to. I've stopped the fan heater completer, the towel heater will get about 45 mins per day now. Dryer usage reduced considerably and the clothes horse has been dusted down!



When was the last time you changed supplier? Well worth your while checking out www.bonkers.ie .


----------



## elcato (4 Feb 2020)

krun81 said:


> I've stopped the fan heater completer, the towel heater will get about 45 mins per day now. Dryer usage reduced considerably and the clothes horse has been dusted down!


Great. Let us know when you get your next bill did things improve as it will still be cold come end of March. I would still take readings periodically to see how things progress.


----------



## krun81 (4 Feb 2020)

demoivre said:


> When was the last time you changed supplier? Well worth your while checking out www.bonkers.ie .


6 months ago and in contract currently (Electric Ireland) so not an option.

Sure I will keep an eye on the meter. I'd be happy with 40 quid reduction. Fingers cross. Thanks again all.


----------



## Sue Ellen (5 Feb 2020)

demoivre said:


> When was the last time you changed supplier? Well worth your while checking out www.bonkers.ie .



I would have thought checking bonkers.ie and switcher.ie was the best option also but just decided recently to have a look at Money Guide Ireland and saw this:

'If you are already with Electric Ireland – then the best price for switching both fuels to one supplier is available on the Energia website using the promo code CHEAPEST1DUAL . You will get 36% off their standard electricity rates _and_ 35% off their gas rates for a year.
This deal will work out at €1493 in year one. You won’t get this deal with Bonkers or Switcher.)'


----------



## bitethebullet (6 Mar 2020)

Our bill came to 250 for the 2 months. I know what it is though. Tumbe dryer is in constant use.


----------



## Sue Ellen (7 Mar 2020)

bitethebullet said:


> Our bill came to 250 for the 2 months. I know what it is though. Tumbe dryer is in constant use.



I know we have had lots of tumble dryer weather recently and they are a necessary evil but they sure do run up the bill.

I stumbled across an article on Google recently (and needless to say can't find it now) where they stated that the worst version for using electricity is an older vented machine.   It recommended getting rid of your machine if it is still a vented version which seems quite a drastic move to me and would have to wonder how much use/used electricity it would take to recoup the replacement cost.

When I was thinking of changing ours some time ago I think it was a heat pump verison that suppliers were talking about and they seemed mad to me


----------

