# NPPR - What happens to the late charges when it gets abolished?



## munchy (12 Jun 2013)

Does anyone know what happens to the NPPR late charges once it get abolished? Do these late charges disappear or get written off (wishful thinking Im sure) or does the outstanding amount remain attached to the property. Or perhaps it transfers to the Property Tax balance? Ive never registered it so they dont have it on their records.


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## dub_nerd (13 Jun 2013)

munchy said:


> Does anyone know what happens to the NPPR late charges once it get abolished? Do these late charges disappear or get written off (wishful thinking Im sure) or does the outstanding amount remain attached to the property. Or perhaps it transfers to the Property Tax balance? Ive never registered it so they dont have it on their records.


 
According to this:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...uthority_charges_on_residential_property.html

"The NPPR will no longer be charged for the years after 2013, but outstanding liabilities and payments will still be collected"


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## facetious (13 Jun 2013)

dub_nerd said:


> According to this:
> 
> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...uthority_charges_on_residential_property.html
> 
> "The NPPR will no longer be charged for the years after 2013, but outstanding liabilities and payments will still be collected"


And from that, I presume it means that the charge, + monthly / yearly interest and other late charges, will be put against the house. This would prevent any sale or transfer of the property in the future until such charges have been paid.


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## rob oyle (13 Jun 2013)

I heard that someone that never registered for an investment property and didn't pay any of the annual fees, would have net dued (including interest and penalties) of E3,100 by the end of this year.  Could that amount ever be realistically collected?  I suppose only in a sales scenario where the issue comes to the attention of the state.  Could be difficult to prove/disprove in 20 years time though?


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## Luternau (13 Jun 2013)

I believe Revenue will have the power to collect outstanding NPPR charges.
How come you have not registered? It was also a requirement of the LPT to state if a house was your PPR-so they will find out sooner or later.


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## Bronte (14 Jun 2013)

rob oyle said:


> Could be difficult to prove/disprove in 20 years time though?


 
Revenue never forget.  On any trasfer wether cause by a sale or death this tax will have to be paid, it will be a requirment from the solicitor.  No way of avoiding it.  

Munchy I thought you were going UK bankrupty, if not you really ought to pay the NPPR as it must be nearly 4K now.


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## munchy (14 Jun 2013)

Thanks all. Whew, this gets harder and harder. 
I was holding off bankruptcy so that I could reach an agreement with the bank, but with all these extra charges added on, it is looking very dire. I sincerely had never heard of the NPPR until yesterday but have paid my LPT and household tax. 
What I am wondering is whether those monthly penalties will continue to accrue after the NPPR is abolished, for an indefinite period?


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## Luternau (14 Jun 2013)

@Munchy
I don't know what your circumstances are but if you are not going to go bankrupt, you really need to factor paying these outstanding charges sooner rather than later. Once revenue get involved with collecting outstanding charges, the enforcement power will increase. Although not stated what they will do, they could seek to take these from salary, as they can with LPT. Normal powers include interest and penalties so it's likely this amount will keep rising year on year till settled.
It is odd to read you were not aware of NPPR -this was just as widely reported and commented on in the media. There was also an extensive public awareness campaign leading up to the payment deadline. Unless you resided out of the country since it's implementation, you must have heard about this!
Finally, while a different thread, you seem to have not heard about or not bothered about the PRTB either. Ignoring these can land you in a world of totally avoidable trouble. I would prioritise these payments over any payments to a bank.

Hope you get everything sorted.


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## Vanessa (16 Jun 2013)

rob oyle said:


> I heard that someone that never registered for an investment property and didn't pay any of the annual fees, would have net dued (including interest and penalties) of E3,100 by the end of this year. Could that amount ever be realistically collected? I suppose only in a sales scenario where the issue comes to the attention of the state. Could be difficult to prove/disprove in 20 years time though?


 
Any solicitor worth their salt will ensure that there are no outstanding charges due on a property before they allow their client to purchase. You can run but you can't hide!!!


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## munchy (16 Jun 2013)

Thanks Luternau - I am embarrassed about this all. 
I have actually paid my LPT and household tax (!) as I did hear about those at the time. 

I had my head in the sand for a long time when I was under considerable stress. And what I need to work out is how to pay - I was out of the country for 2009 and 2010 but back for most of 2011 and 2012 and then left for UK end of last year (although I'm back and forth all the time - its complicated) So - how to pay for only part of the time I was away?

I also understand that the monthly penalties will continue to be added long after the NPPR is abolished. So how to pay and also prove I was back in the country when I was? We have been staying with friends and housesitting long term too.


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## Luternau (16 Jun 2013)

munchy said:


> So - how to pay for only part of the time I was away?




The NPPR charge was not payable monthly-it is/was an annual fixed charge for any property that was not your PPR. If the property was not your PPR for any part of a year, it was/is due in full.
Not good news -but thats my take on it!

Sorry to hear about your stress-its an awful thing! Make sure you look after yourself.


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## mrissue (17 Jun 2013)

Are there any exemptions from the NPPR Charge?
You are advised to check section 4 of the Local Government (Charges) Act 2009, as amended  for details.  However, the following abbreviated list is provided as a guide:

Exemptions: 
1.    Principal Private Residences 
2.    Where a person partly occupies a dwelling as his or her sole or main residence and avails of the Revenue Commissioners’ Rent-a-Room Scheme 
3.    Residential property owned by certain charities or comprised in a discretionary trust. 
4.    Where a person is moving house and, in the process, owns two houses for a relatively short period. 
5.    Joint ownership of a property after a divorce or separation agreement where the second residence becomes the primary residence of one party.
6.    Where a person who owns a principal private residence vacates the dwelling in question because he or she is long-term incapacitated as a result of physical or mental illness.   
7.    Where a residence is occupied rent-free by a relative of the owner and the owner resides on the same property or within two kilometres of the residence in question.

Contact the relevant local authority if you are in any doubt about the liability of your property i.e. the County Council or City Council in which the property is located.


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## T McGibney (17 Jun 2013)

Luternau said:


> If the property was not your PPR for any part of a year, it was/is due in full.



Sorry, that's totally untrue.

https://www.nppr.ie/faq.aspx#fk6


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## callybags (17 Jun 2013)

Hi Munchy

You should at least pay the actual charges of €200 for each year it is applicable.

This will stop the penalties building up and then you can see about sorting out the balance due.


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## oldnick (17 Jun 2013)

There are some old posts which suggest this is not possible  and that one can only pay what is due -not part-payment.


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## callybags (17 Jun 2013)

I would read from this that the charge can be paid and the penalties will stop accumulating.

*What's a "late payment fee"? *





> The Act provides that, if a charge is not paid within a month after the last date for payment, a late payment fee will apply for every month or part of month that the €200 charge remains unpaid. For 2009, this means that the late payment fee will apply to all payments made after 31st October 2009 and for 2010 and subsequent years it will apply to all payments after 30th June of that year. The late payment fee amounts to €20 per month or part of a month *and will continue to roll up as long as the charge remains unpaid and the amount involved can be substantial.*


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2013)

As far as I can remember, a while after the NPPR was in operation, it was realised the people in arrears would have a difficulty with coming up with a large lump sum.  So a system was put in place to help those people.  I think it's a decion for each local authority.  

I have a reminder here in front of me and if paid in June 2013 the liability is 3320, and will be 3920 by December.


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## ClubMan (18 Jun 2013)

munchy said:


> And what I need to work out is how to pay - I was out of the country for 2009 and 2010 but back for most of 2011 and 2012 and then left for UK end of last year (although I'm back and forth all the time - its complicated) So - how to pay for only part of the time I was away?
> 
> So how to pay and also prove I was back in the country when I was? We have been staying with friends and housesitting long term too.


The key issue here is when the property was/was not your PPR. It sounds like it has not been your PPR since some time in 2009. If you were back in Ireland for most of 2011/2012 but the property was not your PPR (because you were living elsewhere - with friends or housesitting) then you are most likely still liable for the NPPR for that period. Maybe you can clarify when and for how long the property was not your PPR.

And as mentioned earlier outstanding NPPR charges (and penalties?) will most likely be collected one way/time or another.


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## T McGibney (18 Jun 2013)

ClubMan said:


> The key issue here is when the property was/was not your PPR. It sounds like it has not been your PPR since some time in 2009. If you were back in Ireland for most of 2011/2012 but the property was not your PPR (because you were living elsewhere - with friends or housesitting) then you are most likely still liable for the NPPR for that period. Maybe you can clarify when and for how long the property was not your PPR.
> .



Because there are potentially high stakes here, the OP should seek their own specialist professional advice on their situation, with a view towards assessing their exposure or exemption based on the specific technical meaning of "principal private residence" by reference to appropriate case law etc.

Depending on the facts, which are said to be complicated, they may well not be liable at all.


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## ajapale (18 Jun 2013)

T McGibney said:


> Because there are potentially high stakes here, the OP should seek their own specialist professional advice on their situation, with a view towards assessing their exposure or exemption based on the specific technical meaning of "principal private residence" by reference to appropriate case law etc.



Agreed, the OP should seek their own independant specialist professional advice on the situation.


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## Knuttell (18 Jun 2013)

The NPPR has almost gone,give it a few years and there will be no one in Revenue bothering about it,they will be too busy enforcing the property tax etc.

I vaguely remember my Dad who paid the property tax in the 80s being mildly amused/annoyed by how quickly Revenue forgot about collecting it when it lapsed due to property owners anger.


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## Luternau (18 Jun 2013)

T McGibney said:


> Sorry, that's totally untrue.
> 
> https://www.nppr.ie/faq.aspx#fk6



I think on this one I may not have written that post as I intended.

The OP's situation does seem to be truly complicated. Unless I mis-read (from another post) the property was not their PPR for most of the time since the NPPR charge came in.
Further professional advice is needed but I doubt the OP will take this or can afford it (they were considering bankruptcy in the UK not so long ago)

@Munchy
You do need to do something about this -sooner, rather than later. I do hope every thing works out for you.


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## maggie22 (7 Aug 2013)

Hi Munchy,  

Just wondering if you have had any luck with this?  I am in a similar situation myself  in relation to two properties.  I applied to one of the county councils in question to pay by instalments under the hardship scheme.  They replied to me yesterday stating that if I paid the charges themselves (amounting to €800), I could pay the remaining €2400 in instalments by 31 December 2013 - that is €600 per month for one property alone.  If I had €600 to spare each month I would not be applying under the hardship scheme!  I am now applying to the second county council and wondering if I will get a similar result. 

Has anyone else had any experience of paying the NPPR late charges/penalties in instalments and how did you get on?


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## Toodles (7 Aug 2013)

We had to pay our nppr in order to sell an investment property. Full payment was needed as it was to be sold €3420 to be exact. It acculumates €20 per month, per year so in a case where it was never paid, that is €100 per montb on charges. Had to borrow this money from family member so i pray the sale doesnt fall through. Either way it wasnt going away and needed paying.


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