# Form B1 annual returns - Share Capital



## contractor (20 May 2008)

hi,

For a startup company filing its first B1 form, what should go into the share capital sections on the B1 form?  when setting up the company a number of shares was portioned to each director, but that is all.  Should I put zero amounts for theses sections?


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## ubiquitous (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> hi,
> 
> For a startup company filing its first B1 form, what should go into the share capital sections on the B1 form?



What the form asks for, ie details of authorised and issued share capital.



contractor said:


> Should I put zero amounts for theses sections?


No.

To be honest, if you don't understand such basic company secretarial matters, then you should not be completing this form without professional help.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> To be honest, if you don't understand such basic company secretarial matters, then you should not be completing this form without professional help.



Yes.  Can anyone give me some advice (professional or otherwise)?  Advice other than a yes or no would be appreciated.  Maybe there is a website with the info I need maybe someone can point me in the right direction.  I can do everything else myself and I'm just stuck on this, so I'm not prepared to fork out €100 for it.  Is this not a website where you post your business/finance questions and friendly people help you out??


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## RonanC (20 May 2008)

Your Authorised capital should be that as per incorporation unless anything has changed

ie: If the company has incorporated with an Authorised Share Capital of €1,000,000 made up of 1,000,000 shares at €1 each and these all being ordinary shares then you fill in the first part of the form b1 regarding shares with that info.

And if two shares(one each) were issued (paid for in cash or in another way) then your issued share capital is €2 made up of two €1 euro shares

so.... 

for example

Authorised Share Capital
Total: €1,000,000
Class: Ordinary 
Number of shares: 1,000,000 
Nominal Value per share: €1


Issued share capital
Total: €2
made up as follows: Paid up on shares €2 (more than likely)
Considered paid on other shares: 0
Total calls unpaid: 0
Total not called: 0
Total standing to credit..... 0


Shares Issued
Consideration - all cash (shares that have been issed and paid for by cash)

Class: Ordinary
Number of shares: 2
Total nominal value: 2
Total premium paid: (usually 0 but insert if you paid any more than the nominal value of the share)
Total amount paid: 2


Total at A is 2
Total at C is 2


Consideration - not all cash (these are shares that have not been paid for by cash)

If the above regarding Cash share details is correct then leave this part blank.

Total at B is blank or 0
Total at D is blank or 0


Totals
A&B is 2
C&D&E&F is 2


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## ClubMan (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> Is this not a website where you post your business/finance questions and friendly people help you out??


It is but read the disclaimer. If you get professional advice then you should be covered by the service provider's professional indemnity insurance to some extent. The same cannot be said for advice posted here so there is an obvious risk to making decisions solely based on it.


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## Graham_07 (20 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> The same cannot be said for advice posted here so there is an obvious risk to making decisions solely based on it.



The risk in this case being an incorrectly completed B1 being returned, and if not correctly completed within the due time, losing audit exemption and possibly facing late filing fees. Cost = a lot more than €100.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

RonanC said:


> And if two shares(one each) were issued (paid for in cash or in another way) then your issued share capital is €2 made up of two €1 euro shares



Many thanks for the detailed reply!  No shares have been paid out so am I correct in saying all I need to fill in is the Authorised Share Capital, or must I fill everything else in with zeros?

To all others, I understand the risks taking non professional advice.  As pointed out this is all I need answered (for now anyway, I hope!) in order to complete the form.  I think it is a safe risk to take.


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## RonanC (20 May 2008)

Is the company a Private Limited by shares company? 

If so then you have an issued share capital and you must fill in this part.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

RonanC said:


> Is the company a Private Limited by shares company?
> 
> If so then you have an issued share capital and you must fill in this part.



Ah, yes of course.  Thanks very much for your help its much appreciated.


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## ClubMan (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> As pointed out this is all I need answered (for now anyway, I hope!) in order to complete the form.  I think it is a safe risk to take.


So that wasn't the case?


contractor said:


> Ah, yes of course.  Thanks very much for your help its much appreciated.


Perhaps there is more that you are overlooking? As before I'd recommend that you get a professional to verify that you are making a correct filing.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> So that wasn't the case?
> 
> Perhaps there is more that you are overlooking? As before I'd recommend that you get a professional to verify that you are making a correct filing.



no not really I meant ah of course as in I made a mistake in my previous post, not ah of course as in I overlooked it.

Thanks for your concern.  but I have to say I think you're more concerned about your nice little bread earner.  If everyone got a little help from friendly people like RonanC and filled in their own forms you'd be out of a nice little earner.  Money for nothing if you don't mind me saying.


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## ubiquitous (20 May 2008)

I'll let Clubman answer for himself, but in fairness I think you have treated me unfairly in this thread.

I previously answered your query as follows:



ubiquitous said:


> What the form asks for, ie details of authorised and issued share capital.



RonanC said


RonanC said:


> If so then you have an issued share capital and you must fill in this part.



I can see no difference?


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## ClubMan (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> but I have to say I think you're more concerned about your nice little bread earner.


Eh? What are you on about? I am an embedded software engineer so stand to gain nothing by you seeking professional advice on this matter. You might want to review the posting guidelines about personalised comments like that. And maybe not bother posting on a public discussion forum if you don't want to receive a range of comments and advice. I stand over my suggestion that you get professional advice as the most prudent way to ensure that you don't make an incorrect filing. Feel free to ignore this advice if you like but don't go around casting aspersions about other posters.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> I can see no difference?



Well you started out by saying if I don't understand basic company secretarial matters then I should seek professional advice.  Then went on to answer my question with "No".  I don't think you can compare it to RonanC's detailed reply.  

However, I do appreciate any advice given so thank you to everyone.  Clubman, you give advice as if you were an accountant.  Thats a compliment, just in case there is further misunderstanding!


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## Bill Struth (20 May 2008)

You should file online as well. Only costs €20 as opposed to €40, and the information you submit this year will be saved and there for you for next year.

[broken link removed]


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## ubiquitous (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> Well you started out by saying if I don't understand basic company secretarial matters then I should seek professional advice.  Then went on to answer my question with "No".



Read my initial post again. By the way, I stand by my recommendation that you seek professional assistance, which fwiw will generally cost you a lot more than €100. Good luck to you.


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## contractor (20 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Read my initial post again. By the way, I stand by my recommendation that you seek professional assistance, which fwiw will generally cost you a lot more than €100. Good luck to you.



OK I've read it again and fwiw I think your reply is condescending.  People come on here for help, not to be looked down on.  I see no advice whatsoever in your reply.


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## ubiquitous (20 May 2008)




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## ClubMan (20 May 2008)

contractor said:


> OK I've read it again and fwiw I think your reply is condescending.  People come on here for help, not to be looked down on.  I see no advice whatsoever in your reply.


He answered the question.


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## MandaC (20 May 2008)

Also agree that you would be doing well to get Annual Return completed and lodged for €100 by any professional firm.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 May 2008)

Let me reiterate, it is extremely foolish for anyone to complete their own Companies Office returns.

A very high proportion get rejected because of errors. 

I would almost go so far as deleting the detailed advice given by RonanC. It is an excellent post, but if Contractor or anyone else thinks that they can use this to save themselves €100, they are mistaken.

There are company secretarial services out there, who do this job well and efficiently.

As Contractor did not appreciate the useful advice from ClubMan and Ubi, I am closing this thread.

Brendan


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