# Civil service job



## indebtedgal (13 May 2007)

Any advise or info greatly appreciated. Currently working in private sector for big (ish ) company that doesn't treat its employees very well, Doing shift work both evenings and weekends and I can't take much more of it. My salary is 26k and i net just under €450 a week. As I'm not in Dublin this is not bad and I'm happy enough with that even though I have a 3rd level degree (honours) in business and could prob earn a bit more if pushed but to be honest money isn't a huge thing for me once I can get by and pay the bills  and my share of the mortage etc. 

Anyway, I applied online for a civil service position on  and thought no more about it until i got a letter last week informing me that i was among "top group" being called for interview for a tempory position of clerical officer. 13 week contact. Interview is on this week. Now herre is my dilema, I was overjoyed initially as I percieve this as a cushy number, am prepared to work hard but i think in comparison to what i'm used to (12 hour days but paid for 8) i'll find it easy. I am just worried that I will have no chance of getting contract renewed  and will be out on my ear after the 13 weeks. The old folks always said "once you got in the door at all". Does this still apply? Also will i automatically start off on crap money eg €350 weekly?? And finally advise on interview tips specifically for public service and any other info that might be useful on this topic...Time is of the essence here!! Thanks in advance.. I'm all strung out over this...


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## machalla (13 May 2007)

Well its good news that you got called for the interview and being in the top group may mean you might get called for more interviews with them at a later date for other positions that are available.

If its just temporary I would think its worth your while leaving a permanent job for a temporary one like this unless it could go permanent (which was probably stated in the spec for the job when you applied for it?).  The obvious thing to do is ask them at the interview or beforehand so as not to waste your time or theres if its a job thats going to go nowhere.

I don't think you should be too concerned about finding it too easy.  If you do what is required of you in the job and theres no complaints about that then thats generally good enough.  

I believe if you have relevant experience that could be applied to the job you don't have to start on the lowest point of the scale but that may apply more to permanent jobs.

Personally I would go to the interview and see if you get the job first before panicking over it.

Not sure if that helps overmuch.


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## indebtedgal (13 May 2007)

I suppose i just want to stress to everyone that i am not way too concerned about the chance of contract not being extended.. OK if I was told at interview that categorically it was not going to be extended even if i displayed genius type skills fair enough.. but if there is a 40% chance i'd be happy enough as i know i'd prove myself.. From what i hear they won't say one way or another that it will/won't be extended anyway.

* if you are applying for a tempory position and ask at interview if it will be made permanent does interview think you are feckless sod who will be gone as soon as something permanent comes up??

* Given info given earlier is starting salary for clerical officer circa 22k regardless of experience or quals

*has anyone heard of temporary contacts not being extended (obviously it has happened but all things being equal for a good employee? I'm sure lads have been left go after ringing in sick for 6 weeks of their 7 week contract and being generally useless for the other week)

* what type of questions am i likely to be asked.

* i have researched the home page of all gov depts and know who is minister for what and the roles and functions of each dept. is this enough?


Thanks in advance!!!!


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## gipimann (13 May 2007)

The most likely reason you're being offered 13 weeks' work at this time of the year is because of term-time in the civil service.   Term-time allows parents to take the school holidays off (either 8 weeks for primary school children or 13 weeks for secondary school children).  Term-time leave is unpaid. These staff are replaced by temps for the duration.

I work in a civil service building (though not a civil servant myself) and have seen the temporary staff start in June/July and finish in September when the permanent staff return.   Not aware of any being kept on though.   A few appear to be college students taking the civil service as a summer job.


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## bradfield (13 May 2007)

The last poster is correct, these temporary positions exist in order to cover people going out on Term Time during the summer and are temporary. If you were ever to be appointed to the civil service at that grade you would have to go through a competition regardless of whether had experience of a temporary position or not. It is unusual for temporary clerical officers to be kept on outside of this system.

Clerical Officers in the Civil Service start off on a salary of approx 22000 I am not sure of the exact starting point and temps would be at this level. I dont think it makes any different whether or not you have experience. If you are a graduate you should apply for the HEO positions that are advertised in the paper this week, the salary is much better and the job will be a lot more stimulating.

By the way I currently work in the Civil Service as an AO.

B


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## Dreamerb (13 May 2007)

indebtedgal said:


> From what i hear they won't say one way or another that it will/won't be extended anyway.


They will tell you - correctly - that the terms are as stated and the chances of extension are very low.



indebtedgal said:


> * if you are applying for a tempory position and ask at interview if it will be made permanent does interview think you are feckless sod who will be gone as soon as something permanent comes up??


No: they'll assess you on your ability to do the job, to learn quickly, and to work with other people. But it _won't_ be made permanent.



indebtedgal said:


> * Given info given earlier is starting salary for clerical officer circa 22k regardless of experience or quals


 Yes.



indebtedgal said:


> *has anyone heard of temporary contacts not being extended (obviously it has happened but all things being equal for a good employee? I'm sure lads have been left go after ringing in sick for 6 weeks of their 7 week contract and being generally useless for the other week)


Temporary contracts are very occasionally extended for a couple of months, but not longer. You will not find yourself in a permanent position from this post - definitive. You may learn more about a department or the civil service generally, which might be an advantage in a later interview for a permanent job, but you categorically will not get a permanent post from this. 



indebtedgal said:


> * what type of questions am i likely to be asked.


 I don't know about the temporary contract interviews, but in general civil service interviews are structured interviews examining a range of abilities. You're asked to give specific examples of how you deal with situations - how you've shown great customer service / leadership / communication... whatever the particular skills they're looking for are. The temporary posts will probably follow the same overall format, with a likely emphasis on team-working, customer service, communication (especially oral communication - phone or counter service), dealing with difficult people / situations. 

Think about a few examples in advance - could be from work, college, other aspects of life - be clear but concise in setting out any background, and specify what _you _did, what _you _learned, and what, if anything, you'd do differently another time.



indebtedgal said:


> * i have researched the home page of all gov depts and know who is minister for what and the roles and functions of each dept. is this enough?


 May be outdated by the time of the interview , but it's pretty decent preparation. As your interview is unlikely to be for a specific department, as opposed to a general panel, there's probably little more you can do by way of background. What they really want in most offices is a safe pair of hands who's going to get an idea of the general work of the office very quickly, keep the filing systems running and the post going out, answer general queries or refer them on appropriately, possibly do some grant processing (less likely, most places, but possible), and any other tasks assigned would be under fairly detailed direction. 

Good luck!


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## messyleo (13 May 2007)

bradfield said:


> If you are a graduate you should apply for the HEO positions that are advertised in the paper this week, the salary is much better and the job will be a lot more stimulating.
> 
> By the way I currently work in the Civil Service as an AO.
> 
> B


 
though just bear in mind you need management experience to apply for the heo, however you could apply for the next round of eo/ao vacancies (probably a year off as there has just been a recruitment drive)


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## bradfield (13 May 2007)

gravitygirl said:


> though just bear in mind you need management experience to apply for the heo, however you could apply for the next round of eo/ao vacancies (probably a year off as there has just been a recruitment drive)


 

True! Apologies! Thought it was the same as AO! When your in the service the two are interchangeable ( allegedly!!!!!!!!)

B


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## messyleo (13 May 2007)

bradfield said:


> True! Apologies! Thought it was the same as AO! When your in the service the two are interchangeable ( allegedly!!!!!!!!)
> 
> B


 
yeah, i'm an AO myself and always find the heo/ao thing a bit confusing lol!


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## indebtedgal (14 May 2007)

any body know what papers are currently adverting for heo??


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

Hi indebtedgal,
Just wondering about your application to the civil service, and your reasons why. To be honest, I think you need to think assess your situation a bit - after years of being a public sector employee I left because no matter how hard I work I never got the recognition in either pay or promotion..

TBH, your current working conditions are not great - let me guess is it logistics! sounds very like my brothers place of work!! You have choices I am guessing you are in your 20's, you can either look for another job or go back to collage and specialise in doing a masters. 

I would not leave your current poistion for a 13 week contract, and I know things are probably tough for you. 

I have been in the same situation, as has my brother (years of crappy jobs in logistics) is now planning to do a msc in technical writing.. Mr bear has worked his way up from being a clerk to demand planning manager, indebtedgal I think you need a bit of career guidance pm me if I can be of any assistanceP


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## Welfarite (14 May 2007)

indebtedgal said:


> any body know what papers are currently adverting for heo??



Look at the website www.publicjobs.ie here


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## indebtedgal (14 May 2007)

In my 30's!!! (32)Hotel Management!! returned to college at 27 to complete degree. Just want an easy life...And I don't mean that as i'm lazy but I just want to do my job and go home and live my life and not be getting hassled!! I know that i'm prob coming across the wrong way but i don't know how to explain it any better.. I think yesterday i had my mind made up to go for it and now i'm having doubts. Bottom line is I want out of shift work..


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

> And I don't mean that as i'm lazy but I just want to do my job and go home and live my life and not be getting hassled!!


 
Absolutley nothing wrong with that at all.... my advise is to contact a collage and ask if they have a career guidance counciller - if they so ask to speak to them and see if they will speak to you privately.

My brother is 34! So it's not too late.... But at this stage in your life you need to make thr right decision based you your skills and what you are good at, and also what you personally want out of life.. 

I am guessing you are thinking of primary teaching beacause of the hours?? I have several teachers in my family and to be honest to get permanacy it is a long road... Don't out rule collage, also if you work in a hotel and are looking for a change in career would you think about supply chain. I only say this because you would have a certain amount of experience in this field and if you get in to a good company like diagio, kerry foods there are good prospects.... and you are not starting off....

The real key here is career guidance...


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## indebtedgal (14 May 2007)

Would have no interest in that at all! Neither in going back to college. Benn there done that. Could not afford not to be working full time anyway. Will look for private sector 9-5 if needs be. Thanks for advice though.. Anyone else with any thoughts..


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

It's still no harm to contact a career guidance counsiller. I mentioned I had gone from Nursing to Progaramming - well I spoke to this guy Erik Guiry - he was fantastic, and I have always recomended him to friends, am not sure if he is still doing it..

A girl I went to collage with and later worked with (I was a mature student as was she) - had done radiography and computer applications, and she *hated *programming with a passion! 

I suggested she speak to this guy, she did and he told her that she had three D vision!! That if she had her life again she should have done architecture, but he would not recomend that she do so now! She has *very* successfully gone in to property development in the UK...


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## tinkerbell (14 May 2007)

I'm taking term time shortly and someone new has to be hired temporarily to do my work.  Its hard work, contrary to what you hear about the easy life civil servants have.  It would take weeks to learn the job but I bet my replacement will be expected to learn it in a week or two before I leave.  And most definitely in my area of work, they will not keep someone on permanently once the full time person returns.  My opinion would be too that it best suits a student or someone who only wants summer work.


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## AidoCQS (14 May 2007)

I have recently begun work in the civil service after 13 years in private industry. I am not trying to be provocative but I can saftly say that for every one person in administration in a private company doing their job there were 4 more clockwatching and lugging around large chips on their shoulder.
In the public service I have yet to come across a single one - they all try be part of the team and really buy into the role they have. 

I am not going to get into why that is so, maybe in the private sector they are being paid just a little bit more than what will stop them walking out the door, or maybe its a lack of a clear progression path. I dont know, It just needs to be said that all the administrative staff I have came across in the public sector earn their money and earn it well.


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## buzybee (14 May 2007)

You would be better off not taking the 13 weeks work.  At the end of this, you may very well be let go.  Even if you are kept on, you would still only be temporary.  The temporary clerical officers go up to a pay scale of 26K over 3 or 4 years(that is if they are kept on temping for 3 or 4 years).

Also, working as a temp clerical officer would not help you to get in permanent.  I know some templ clerical officers, who applied to get permanent work in an open competition.  They didn't even get an interview, as they didn't reach the required standard in the aptitude exam.  This was even though they were doing the work for the last few years!!!

I am in a similar position, 34, business degree, working as an accounts assistant on 30K.  I could get more money but it would mean doing more hours and a lot more responsibility.  You should look for an office based position. However, you are unlikely to get 9-5.  For most office based positions in the private sector you have to work 40 hours a week. This is 8.30 to 5 with half an hour for lunch.  Sometimes I stay back to get the work done, but I would work 45 hours a week at most.  Because there is so much work to be done, I must work very fast, I don't take morning tea break, just take the bare half hour for lunch.  

You should apply for clerical officer or executive officer.  I know the starting salary of clerical officer is low at 22k, but it is adequate, considering you only work 32 or 35 hours a week, work at a normal pace and can take your lunch breaks.  Also it goes up to about 34k over a number of years.  If you are in permanent, you may get a promotion or even a temporary promotion to a higher grade.  This would increase your salary, make the job more interesting.  You still would be nearly guaranteed to get away with 40 hours work a week, even if you did a few hours unpaid overtime.

I don't think you are lazy.  I think that your hourly rate of pay can quickly go down, if you do a lot more than the 40 hours a week.  In fact I calculate that the hourly rate of pay for the clerical officers (who are on 22K) is nearly the same as what I am getting, as I work long hours and they work short hours.


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## tinkerbell (14 May 2007)

As a Clerical Officer in the civil service, I work 9 to 5, one hour lunch, 15 minute morning break and no afternoon break.   Wages in the first year are currently 436 euro per week.   Think theres a 2% increase due about now? I have no flexitime and find my area to be very rigid and dated compared to the private sector where I had more money, flexi time and felt somewhat appreciated for the job I did with the knock on effect I had pride in the work whereas no matter the effort I put in now, it goes unnoticed and unrewarded and it shows with the terrible sickleave records of staff all around me.  Never forget the public service covers a huge range of services apart from the general government departments and they vary hugely!!


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## buzybee (14 May 2007)

Tinkerbell

Could you try to get a transfer?  Do you have a reasonable amount of work to do?  (i.e. are you nicely busy so the day goes fast, but not stressed out busy).

I know that not every public sector job will be perfect and that is what frightens me.   Also, there is the perception that the public sector is a cushy no. even though I have seen a lot of people in the private sector in cushy no.s

The reason why I would like the public sector, is that you are not caught for unpaid overtime, and you have regular hours.  The fact that you can eventually get part time/term time/career break is great.  Also, I love the fact that you can get paid sick leave if you have flu/heavy cold. (I know that some people can abuse this, and leave others to do their work)


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## tinkerbell (15 May 2007)

Yep I can ask for transfer but because I don't work in an actual Government Department it means wherever I am sent will be very similar.   My work is actually quite stressful which was a shock for a civil servant!!  Its non stop from 9 to 5 with deadlines, phones, etc. all hopping.   When I asked about flexi time they laughed - flexitime applies to only about 50% of all public service areas I was told and ours is not likely to get it in the near future.  Also I requested before I accepted the job that they do flexi and of course, I was told they did so my annual leave is 20 days plus two privilege days which occur at Easter and Christmas.  I need to be permanent before I can apply for promotion which means two years time and judging by the amount of workmates who are 10/15 years there and still CO, promotion prospects are not rosy.  As I said earlier, be aware that the public service covers a multitude of areas, not just deparments, and some are quiet slow to progress themselves into a modern working environment unfortunately.  Its a gamble where you end up!


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## indebtedgal (16 May 2007)

*More Civil Service*

As mentioned on earlier posts i have an interview for tempory CO position on friday. Did 12 hour shift yesterday with no break and no extra money for it just because i was off today and could no leave stuff in my in box. granted i could have left but i know that it would only lead to phones about this and that today and i'd still have to face the music.. therefore will prob accept the tempory position if offered, at least its 13 weeks employed while looking for something suitable.


*any tips on questions i might be asked
* any one ever heard of such a position being extended to cover      maternity leave for example??


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## ClubMan (16 May 2007)

*Re: More Civil Service*



Merged into the original thread.


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## treeoflife14 (26 Oct 2013)

pinkyBear said:


> It's still no harm to contact a career guidance counsiller. I mentioned I had gone from Nursing to Progaramming - well I spoke to this guy Erik Guiry - he was fantastic, and I have always recomended him to friends, am not sure if he is still doing it..
> 
> A girl I went to collage with and later worked with (I was a mature student as was she) - had done radiography and computer applications, and she *hated *programming with a passion!
> 
> I suggested she speak to this guy, she did and he told her that she had three D vision!! That if she had her life again she should have done architecture, but he would not recomend that she do so now! She has *very* successfully gone in to property development in the UK...



Do you know where I could get his number?


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