# Evidence that there was a systematic campaign to get people off their trackers



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

I think it would be useful to compile evidence of this as Jeremy Masding was unable to find it.
If you have any documentary evidence of any of these, please email it to me at brendan at this website.


Is there any contemporaneous evidence from posts on askaboutmoney or other discussion forums?

No penalty to break out of fixed rates when you were entitled to a tracker on expiry of the fixed rate 

It appears that not one borrower was advised that they would lose their tracker 

Those who were not entitled to trackers on expiry of their fixed rates, were not allowed to break out of their fixed rates without a penalty  this post
Some borrowers were told that this was a special offer for 28 days - Phil's post from Fuzzy10
The process for breaking out was very simple - the borrower just had to send a fax. 

Some borrowers reported getting cold called by their branch suggesting that they could break out for free 
Joannmct     
and [URL='http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ptsb-why-did-you-break-your-fixed-rate.195132/page-2#post-1440030']CarolineK[/URL]
For those who did wait until the expiry of their fixed rate, the SVR was much lower than the tracker rate on offer


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

Evidence for point 7 from  HC2015

We did not break out of our fixed term. In Dec 2009 (month before coming off 4.79% fixed rate) we were offered a SVR, Tracker or various fixed rates, detailed below. We went for the Variable, stupidly thinking it was more affordable. Sure enough, within months, the Variable rate shot up and up.


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2015)

Add 8 No switcher fee from poster Fuzzy here:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ptsb-why-did-you-break-your-fixed-rate.195132/page-2

Further to your link to Phil's case - about phone calls.  Are there no phone call records in the bank?

For point 7 - what is the commercial reason for having a SVR lower than a tracker at that particular time.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

That is point 3 !


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2015)

o the penalty is the amount you pay for breaking your fix, normally 3 months interest, apparently according to fuzzy there was another fee, called a switcher fee, like a bank charge that was waived.  It's the first time I've read about this.

But in the past when one got a mortgage there was sometimes an arrangment fee, so I'm guessing it's something like that.  It would be a fixed amount rather than a percentage.

I see though your link is to the post about the 'switcher fee' that is not a penalty.


----------



## fuzzy10 (4 Aug 2015)

Bronte. I enquired about breaking from a fixed to an SVR. There was a penalty fee (12k). Please reread the post. When I asked to break out of fixed in jan09 I was refused.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

Bronte said:


> there was another fee, called a switcher fee, like a bank charge that was waived. It's the first time I've read about this.



I think it's just posters using imprecise terminology. It's the same thing whether you call it a "break fee", "early repayment penalty" or 
"switcher fee"


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2015)

fuzzy10 said:


> Bronte. I enquired about breaking from a fixed to an SVR. There was a penalty fee (12k). Please reread the post. When I asked to break out of fixed in jan09 I was refused.


 
So to clarify, the penalty (some months interest) is the same as what you referred to as a 'switcher fee'?


----------



## fuzzy10 (4 Aug 2015)

I'll dig out the correct wording to clarify..


----------



## kaza (4 Aug 2015)

I was also told in Jan 09 that there was an ECB rate reduction to be passed onto existing SVR customers only, bringing the SVR from 4.65% to 4.15% on Feb 13th. This ECB rate reduction would only be passed to existing SVR customers, and any new SVR customers after this date would get a rate of 4.65%. So if I waited until the end of my fixed term in Aug 09, I would get the 4.65% SVR. Here is a snippet from the fax I sent to terminate my fixed rate, which states a short piece about the ECB rate and SVR:



 

They have no phone record of this, even though I have the date and name of person I spoke with. Also, I actually asked in branch (with mortgage adviser) and on the phone would I not be entitled to my tracker back and I was told no, so thought this was a second best option.

When I complained in 2010 I was informed I would not have been told either of the points above.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

Hi kaza

Please clarify something. 

Were you told that you were not entitled to the tracker back when the fixed rate term expired? 

Or were you told that if you broke, you would lose your entitlement to a tracker?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2015)

kaza said:


> I was also told in Jan 09 that there was an ECB rate reduction to be passed onto existing SVR customers only,



This doesn't tally with your figures here: 

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/history-of-ptsb-variable-rate.163941/#post-1227606

Did you actually get that rate reduction?


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2015)

Kaza why were you in contact with the bank in Jan 09.  Did they contact you first?


----------



## kaza (4 Aug 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> This doesn't tally with your figures here:
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/history-of-ptsb-variable-rate.163941/#post-1227606
> 
> Did you actually get that rate reduction?



Sorry in that previous post I must have missed some of the SVR rate changes from Jan 09 to July 09. I was on:

Jan 09 - 4.65%
13 Feb 09 - 4.15%
03 Apr 09 - 3.65%
30 Apr 09 - 3.4%
05 Jun 09 - 3.15%
27 Jul 09 - 3.65%


----------



## kaza (4 Aug 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi kaza
> 
> Please clarify something.
> 
> ...



I was told I would not be entitled to tracker on completion of my fixed rate, in store and on the phone. Hence, I thought the SVR move was a second best option as such. When I brought my complaint forward in 2010 ( when I realised the terms in my mortgage contradicted this), I was informed the person in store at no recollection of the conversation and they had no phone record.


----------



## Joannmct (4 Aug 2015)

Funny that because my PTSB mortgage consultant failed to minute the meeting at which he told me we were not entitled to a tracker and would not be offered one on completion of fixed rate either!


----------



## kaza (4 Aug 2015)

Bronte said:


> Kaza why were you in contact with the bank in Jan 09.  Did they contact you first?


I went in store of my own accord in Jan 2009 to inquire about whether I would get my tracker back at the end of my fixed rate. I had been hearing that they had removed them and was worried I would no longer be entitled to it on completion of my fixed rate in Aug 09. When originally moving to fixed I had gotten a verbal agreement that I could return to tracker, but nothing in writing at the time. So I wanted to check in store the lay of the land. I did not realise the terms of my tracker stated I should return to tracker at the end of my fixed.


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2015)

Kaza do you remember where you 'heard' that trackers wer being removed in 2009?  Media, website perhaps.


----------



## OPTI (4 Aug 2015)

I  definitely heard it through the media .not 100% but possibly ireland AM as there was a discussion about how the banks were trying to help struggling customers.I suppose if Ireland AM could be checked for january 09 .I then contacted ptsb to enquire and was able to move without penalty from end of january 09


----------



## GiganticLamb (4 Aug 2015)

kaza said:


> I was told I would not be entitled to tracker on completion of my fixed rate, in store and on the phone. Hence, I thought the SVR move was a second best option as such. When I brought my complaint forward in 2010 ( when I realised the terms in my mortgage contradicted this), I was informed the person in store at no recollection of the conversation and they had no phone record.



This is the exact same story as me.

I phoned the branch that I took the mortage out,I phoned open 24 aswell .Both told me that I was not going to be put on a tracker


----------



## Somar (4 Aug 2015)

Hi Bronte

I have a record of an email from PTSB Mortgage department stating that PTSB stopped offering Trackers on 31st August 2009.
All PTSB Mortgage holders coming off fixed rates due to roll onto to trackers in late 2008 and first half of 2009 were given options letters cleverly calculated to entice customers off trackers. Whatever the SVR was at the time, it was always a better and cheaper rate than the tracker as the (ECB + %age) figure would always be higher than the SVR. These ECB + %age figures were calculated especially for that purpose.
I also have the same evidence for point 7 from HC2015 as Brendan Burgess has referred to above.
And yes Bronte you are quite correct, what is the commercial reason for having a SVR lower than a tracker at that particular time!!!!


----------



## fuzzy10 (4 Aug 2015)

fuzzy10 said:


> I'll dig out the correct wording to clarify..



This is the correct wording. They also apologised that i was unable to change from fixed to variable!

Ïn january 2009, PTSB put a hold on these switches pending a review into our fixed rate exit charge. While this review was being carried out we were unable to process any changes from a fixedrate to a variable rate."

It would be interesting to see how many customers were allowed to break from their fixed mortgage with no exit charge... after jan09


----------



## JCB1 (5 Aug 2015)

I was told by word of mouth from a work colleague. It was Feb 09, I rang up to request over the phone - can't remember if I received any documentation.


----------



## AAM_User (5 Aug 2015)

Found this on the property pin from 2009:  http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26650


----------



## fuzzy10 (5 Aug 2015)

Interesting to see the banks misleading customers to break from their fixed mortgages AFTER Jan09...
I am proof that they targeted customers who had a tracker rate stated in their contracts & I have it in writing...
I look forward to relaying this information back to PTSB when I meet the bank..


----------



## Brendan Burgess (6 Aug 2015)

AAM_User said:


> Found this on the property pin from 2009:  http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26650



Thanks for that link. It's a link back to a very interesting post on askaboutmoney highlighting the issue at the time. 

What is even funnier, is that some of the guys seemed to think that I was the Financial Regulator!


----------



## Bronte (6 Aug 2015)

Even back then on the pin poster 2pack was clued in enough to state this:

_Best warn anyone you know on a fixed mortgage with a low tracker rate that PTSB are out there on the prowl trying to diddle them_.

So November 2009 and the Central bank were inactive for years afterwards.


----------

