# Cancelling Post-dated cheques



## Dirac (22 Feb 2010)

Hello,

Does anyone know if it is possible to cancel post-dated cheques with the bank which have been written and given to the receipient to hold until the banking date shown on the cheque if the writer of the cheque has informed the receipient of their intention to do so?


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## bond-007 (22 Feb 2010)

Yes. Simply give the bank the cheque details and they will be cancelled.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2010)

There is no defence in law to a bounced cheque. 

So while you can instruct your bank not to pay out on the cheque, the recipient of a cheque has a proven debt against you and can get a judgement against you. If you are a limited company, they could probably base an application for a winding up order on the bouncing of a cheque. 

Post-dated cheques have a very important role in debt settlement and you should not bounce them lightly.


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## Papercut (22 Feb 2010)

You can instruct your bank to stop payment on cheques provided that they were not issued in conjunction with a cheque guarantee card & are each for amounts up to €130. If they are each for amounts over €130 they are not covered by a cheque guarantee card anyway. Most banks will charge you for a stop cheque instruction.


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## MaryBe (23 Feb 2010)

Brendan said:


> Post-dated cheques have a very important role in debt settlement and you should not bounce them lightly.


 
About two years ago I was speaking with my bank manager. I mentioned in passing that they (bank) cashed a post-dated cheque I had written to tenents prior to the cheque date. I must add that it was ok as the house was in perfect condition when we checked it over.

My manager told me that it is 'illegal' to write a post dated cheque, as you are assuming that funds will be in your account.


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## 8till8 (23 Feb 2010)

> My manager told me that it is 'illegal' to write a post dated cheque, as you are assuming that funds will be in your account.


 
A cheque is considered a "promise to pay" and not a conditional promise to pay (if you get my meaning)

The Act which deals with this is the Criminal Justice Act 2001


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## Mpsox (23 Feb 2010)

MaryBM said:


> About two years ago I was speaking with my bank manager. I mentioned in passing that they (bank) cashed a post-dated cheque I had written to tenents prior to the cheque date. I must add that it was ok as the house was in perfect condition when we checked it over.
> 
> My manager told me that it is 'illegal' to write a post dated cheque, as you are assuming that funds will be in your account.


 
Note that the terms and conditions in most banks state that if you write a post dated cheque and it's paid, the bank are not responsible.


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## mathepac (23 Feb 2010)

Mpsox said:


> ... if you write a post dated cheque and it's paid, the bank are not responsible.


Which begs the question, why bother putting a date on a cheque at all?


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## Mpsox (23 Feb 2010)

mathepac said:


> Which begs the question, why bother putting a date on a cheque at all?


 
Because it is a legal requirement under the Bills of Exchange Act 1882, which includes the words "pay on demand or at a fixed or determanable future time


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## Padraigb (23 Feb 2010)

I was starting to get worried by the discussion in this thread, because it was beginning to look as if what I thought I knew was wrong. Mpsox's post has reassured me.

It is legal to write a post-dated cheque (the "determinable future date" cited by Mpsox).

A cheque is not a promise to pay: it is an unconditional order to pay. 

Because of a cheque's special status in law as a negotiable instument, Brendan's point about there being "no defence in law to a bounced cheque" is largely correct, but I think the tone in which he puts it might alarm people more than is appropriate. There are circumstances in which dishonouring a cheque is the right thing to do. I would, however, be slow to instruct a bank to dishonour a cheque in an "ordinary" business disagreement or dispute.

I don't remember when I last wrote a post-dated cheque, but if my bank paid on it before the due date, they would have an issue with me, and I am not sure that they could successfully hide behind T&Cs.


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## Dirac (23 Feb 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far. If I put some meat on the bones of my question I would value peoples opinions....

Situation is I have a debt with a company which totalled €2800 and it has been referred to a debt collection agency. I received a letter asking me to contact them which I did and felt very pressured into making an offer of payment which was €400 a month to clear the debt. I suggested this amount. I stupidly sent post dated cheques for the total amount to the agency.
First cheque has cleared but basically over committed myself and wanted to negotiate a lesser amount but company would not entertain it saying if following cheque/s are not honoured then they will issue a Garda notice, and the debt collector keeps telling me that someone who issued a cheque to them which wasnt paid was recently sentenced to 18months.

The debt collector did tell me that once the cheques were in his possession that was it, but as I said, I was pressurised into making an arrangement as I spoke to him for the first time on Friday 29 Jan, when he told me that the debt was due in court on Tues 2nd Feb (although I had received no notification) and that I had to pay in full. or else I would be put on the ICB as a bad debtor. Eventually after a lot of toing and frowing they accepted €400 a month. 

My real question is, is the debt collector correct in that they cannot change an agreement once the cheques have been issued, and if they wont change the agreement, what are the implications for me if I cannot meet the €400 a month?

Apologies for the long ramble!


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Feb 2010)

It's a tough one. 

They can't get blood out of a stone. 

However, they can't jail you if a cheque bounces, so don't worry about that. 

But they do have your promise to pay. 

You can stop the cheques, but you can't disupte the debt. But it seems that you don't dispute the debt anyway? You do owe them the money? 

They will probably try to get a judgement against you and they will then try to get the Sheriff to enforce it. If you have no assets, then they won't be able to enforce it. 

You should write to them. Acknowledge the debt. Tell them that you entered into an agreement which you can't afford to keep. Ask them to hold the cheque until you have the funds as attempting to cash it will cost you and them more money. 

Send the letter by registered post. 

Brendan


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## Dirac (23 Feb 2010)

No I don't dispute the debt at all. I was just stupid in sending the post dated cheques!
I want to rearrange the payments to pay off the debt as quickly as possible, but the debt collection agency wouldn't even entertain the idea of a new arrangement even though I told him I couldn't afford what I thought I could originally.

If they try to get a judgement against me, would that be at my local District Court and would I be able to present my case or is it done via correspondence?

If they do issue a "Garda Instruction" as he called it, does that mean the Gardai will arrest me?

I know it's going off the original topic now but I appreciate the advice!


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## Padraigb (23 Feb 2010)

Okay, you are in a difficult situation, and you have my sympathy. But I don't think I can offer an opinion that will make you feel better.

It sounds to me as if the debt collection agency played a hardball game of bluff, and you lost.

But you agree that you owe the money, and you did write the cheques. Of course the agency could vary the agreement, but they seem to have decided not to, and you can't force them.

Your life could be made worse if you instructed the bank to dishonour the cheques. If the bank dishonours one or more cheques because you do not have funds in your account then, as Brendan indicated, the debt collection agency has a pretty unstoppable legal claim against you, and their enforcing that claim could cost you even more money.

If you can reorganise your financial affairs, I think you need to look into ways of covering those cheques. Might the bank allow you an overdraft that would help, or can you use a credit union?

PS. Discussion moved on as I was composing my post. A debt is a civil matter, and you can't be jailed for it. Issuing a cheque which you cannot possibly cover might be construed as fraud, which is a criminal matter, but there is no chance of anybody believing that what you did was done with a fraudulent intention. You're not going to jail.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Feb 2010)

Padraigb said:


> I don't remember when I last wrote a post-dated cheque, but if my bank paid on it before the due date, they would have an issue with me, and I am not sure that they could successfully hide behind T&Cs.



I am not too sure about that. 

The banks have a huge number of cheques being processed automatically every day. They might well miss a post-dated cheque. 

If I was a banker and someone hassled me for honouring a post date cheque too early, I would tell them to take their business elsewhere.


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## Towger (23 Feb 2010)

Padraigb said:


> if my bank paid on it before the due date, they would have an issue with me, and I am not sure that they could successfully hide behind T&Cs.


 
I am still waiting from a copy of these very same T&C from the manager of BOI Tallaght, must be about a year now so I assume they don't exist!


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## TheShark (23 Feb 2010)

Dirac dont worry about the Gardai. They are bluffing with this "Garda Instruction" , this is a civil matter and the only way that the Gardai would become involved would be after a they had brought you to court , proved the debt and sought an instalment order , which the judge would set at something that you could afford , it you then failed to meet the payments as per the instalment order they could then seek a committal order and it would be at that stage that the Gardai would become involved. To get to that stage would probably take a couple of years going through the various stages of the court process.


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## nlgbbbblth (25 Feb 2010)

Brendan said:


> I am not too sure about that.
> 
> The banks have a huge number of cheques being processed automatically every day. They might well miss a post-dated cheque.
> 
> If I was a banker and someone hassled me for honouring a post date cheque too early, I would tell them to take their business elsewhere.



People should not be that naive to think that banks check the date of every single cheque that's processed.

They don't. 

Why? The cost of doing so (in terms of time and money) would be prohibitive.


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