# Eating out - What you want versus what you get!!



## seriams (10 Jun 2008)

Recently I found out that I was wheat intolerant so now when I eat out I need to steer clear of bread. I won’t go into details but basically in my local deli I was told that  if I were to order soup – I would get soup and brown bread for €3.95 and that they couldn’t give me anything to substitute the brown bread and that I would have to pay €3.95 even if I did not ‘want’ bread. 

It wasn’t a matter of want; I love bread but have no choice. The same applied had I wanted their yummy salad bowl that comes with bread. Even though I couldn’t eat the bread I would be charged and they couldn’t instead offer me soup or discount or give me soup and add on the difference.

Am I being unreasonable? It’s only now that I have to steer clear of wheat that I have noticed how our nation put up with these absolutely ridiculous menu rules. Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it. As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!


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## MrMan (10 Jun 2008)

> Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it. As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!



And I guess they can argue that surely they can charge what they want when they want to. Your unfortunatley in the minority ( as in can't have bread) so they won't change the rules, even though good customer service would suggest they do make a concession.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> The same applied had I wanted their yummy salad bowl that comes with bread. Even though I couldn’t eat the bread I would be charged and they couldn’t instead offer me soup or discount or give me soup and add on the difference.
> 
> Am I being unreasonable? It’s only now that I have to steer clear of wheat that I have noticed how our nation put up with these absolutely ridiculous menu rules.


You are being unreasonable in describing the situation as "ridiculous" in my opinion. It's hardly "ridiculous" for a vendor to have a fixed price for a set meal and not offer any variations or discounts for omissions? Maybe it doesn't suit everybody but in that case there are obviously other options such as the one that you seem to have chosen.


> Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it.


Try asking for caviar in your local chipper and let us know how you get on.


> As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!


Not a bad solution.

Just out of curiosity - did you inform the management of the establishment in question that you considered their menu policies "ridiculous"?


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## shnaek (10 Jun 2008)

It could be a different culture is at play here. I suspect the OP may be American, and in my experience in The States you can in most places create your own meal. You can specify what you would like (according to what is on their menu) and you get what you order along with a friendly smile


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## MandaC (10 Jun 2008)

They could possibly get people starting to say, either I dont't want the bread, saying they are wheat intolerant, etc,  can you charge less, or can I have one slice  or two, etc and there would become too many variations.  

A place near us does a set soup and sambo for whatever. Its a set price. The sandwiches could kill a horse.  I am only able to eat half, does that mean I can say, just give me soup and a half sandwich and charge me less.

Our local garage put up a sign saying "no half sandwiches"

Agree with Clubman on this one.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

MandaC said:


> A place near us does a set soup and sambo for whatever. Its a set price. The sandwiches could kill a horse.


Have you considered reporting them to the FSAI? Or maybe the DSPCA? Or at least making a funny _"You've Been Framed" _video?


> Our local garage put up a sign saying "no half sandwiches"


My local joke shop put up a sign saying "no half wits".


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## Caveat (10 Jun 2008)

Mrs Caveat is a veggie, and on occasion is in the position where she has to order the "dinner but without the meat". 

I don't think it's unfair to expect a reduction in these circumstances - but we often have to argue to get it.


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## seriams (10 Jun 2008)

Clubman - I went with the salad. It was the only salad on the menu - there were no options!!

Shnaek - I'm Irish thanks, but perhaps I'd be better off in America!!

You know I've been listening to the news and seeing the reports where different countries are striking due to the rise in fuel costs, if my replies are anything to go by, I can see why the Irish haven't stood up and joined them. Please continue to be taken for a ride by all means


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> Clubman - I went with the salad. It was the only salad on the menu - there were no options!!


I meant this option:


> As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!





> You know I've been listening to the news and seeing the reports where different countries are striking due to the rise in fuel costs, if my replies are anything to go by, I can see why the Irish haven't stood up and joined them. Please continue to be taken for a ride by all means


Total non sequitur. Nobody said that people who didn't like the "no substitutions/reductions" rules on menus had to grin and bear it. There are lots of options open to them as you yourself have shown. They can voice their dissatisfaction (you never told us - did you, or did you just grin and bear it and take the salad?), take their custom elsewhere, prepare their own lunch etc.


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## MandaC (10 Jun 2008)

Just because people disagree with you does not mean anyone is being taken for a ride.


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## seriams (10 Jun 2008)

......go on........take a bite outta my non-wheat sandwich


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## Staples (10 Jun 2008)

In response to your question... 



seriams said:


> Am I being unreasonable?


 
.... the answer is NO, you're not. It's a pain in the neck having to pay for something you can't consume.

However, the more pertinent question might be "Is the restaurant obliged to take my food intolerance into account?". The answer is that while you might like to think they would, they're not obliged to.

In the circumstances, you might want to seek out some alternative eateries that adopt a more flexible approach or, as you've mentioned, make your own meals.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> ......go on........take a bite outta my non-wheat sandwich


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## efm (10 Jun 2008)

Staples said:


> In response to your question...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well said and nicely said....somebody make that man a Mod


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

If his first name is Neville then he nearly is already.


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## Caveat (10 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If his first name is Neville then he nearly is already.


 
 

(Purely for the quip being so circumlocutory and obscure)


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## rmelly (10 Jun 2008)

Caveat said:


> (Purely for the quip being so circumlocutory and obscure)


 
why - because he has a son 





> who is the lead singer in a U.S. reggae/rock band named "DreadStarr"


?


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## Caveat (10 Jun 2008)

Er...


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

Caveat said:


> Er...


Er x 2...


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## rmelly (10 Jun 2008)

Caveat said:
			
		

> Er...


 


ClubMan said:


> Er x 2...


 
Sorry, I assumed it was something a bit more obscure that 'Mod'.


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## amtc (10 Jun 2008)

I#m not a big believer in places having to take into account food tolerances. 

However so many places do things these days that show, for example, caesar salad and then an extra charge for chicken...that I can't see why they couldn't do it the other way round. I never eat bread out and it would be a nice gesture to take off the cost of a bun etc.

Went to see SATC last night and despite paying 16 euro for tickets and the same for food etc. they couldnt replace a soft drink with water....


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

rmelly said:


> Sorry, I assumed it was something a bit more obscure that 'Mod'.


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## rmelly (11 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


>


 


> (Purely for the quip being so circumlocutory and obscure)


 
I thought it had to be something more than Mod, couldn't figure it until I realised that he 'dreads' going to his local deli now?


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## ClubMan (11 Jun 2008)

Sorry I've run out of  emoticons at this stage...


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## Simeon (12 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If his first name is Neville then he nearly is already.


Ja Clubman! . I've just had _A message to you_ from _Rudy._ She sent you a few more emoticons.


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## Vanilla (17 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> Recently I found out that I was wheat intolerant so now when I eat out I need to steer clear of bread. I won’t go into details but basically in my local deli I was told that if I were to order soup – I would get soup and brown bread for €3.95 and that they couldn’t give me anything to substitute the brown bread and that I would have to pay €3.95 even if I did not ‘want’ bread.
> 
> It wasn’t a matter of want; I love bread but have no choice. The same applied had I wanted their yummy salad bowl that comes with bread. Even though I couldn’t eat the bread I would be charged and they couldn’t instead offer me soup or discount or give me soup and add on the difference.
> 
> Am I being unreasonable? It’s only now that I have to steer clear of wheat that I have noticed how our nation put up with these absolutely ridiculous menu rules. Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it. As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!


 
Yes you ARE being unreasonable. I have been a diagnosed coeliac for over 10 years now and I would not expect a restaurant/cafe or deli to pander to my needs. When I go to such an establishment I outline what I can and cannot have and usually ask the chef to recommend something- in the early years of my diagnosis this was very difficult but in later years I find it easier and easier.BTW most soups have wheat in them as a thickener, so something you should check out.


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## Firefly (18 Jun 2008)

Ate in Eco's in Douglas last night - for a place that gets great reviews I found it so-so...anyway, what was interesting were the packets of Aldi tagatelli over the counter when I walked in!!! At least they are showing you what you're getting  -sorry if this isn't 100% related..


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## Purple (18 Jun 2008)

I remember being drunk in McDonalds in Cork one time (just the once and it was years ago) and asking for Lobster. It was all done in good spirits and the girl behind the counter saw the funny side. The next day I thought about how nice she was but I now realise that she was actually just being unreasonable because _"Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it"._


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## seriams (19 Jun 2008)

Think I might have seen you there purple. You were the one with the red hair and the large round-toe shoes? - hilarious


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## Vanilla (19 Jun 2008)

Purple said:


> I remember being drunk in McDonalds in Cork one time (just the once and it was years ago) and asking for Lobster.


 

Yeah, but what was just the once? Being in Cork, being in McDonalds, being drunk or asking for Lobster?


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## Firefly (20 Jun 2008)

Purple said:


> I remember being drunk in McDonalds in Cork one time (just the once and it was years ago) and asking for Lobster. It was all done in good spirits and the girl behind the counter saw the funny side. The next day I thought about how nice she was but I now realise that she was actually just being unreasonable because _"Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it"._


 

Hi Purple,

I had lobster once in McDonalds...in Maine see here

http://bostonphoenix.com/archive/food/98/07/16/NOSHING_SIPPING.html


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## Purple (20 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> Think I might have seen you there purple. You were the one with the red hair and the large round-toe shoes? - hilarious



No, I didn't have the red hair.


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## Purple (20 Jun 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Yeah, but what was just the once? Being in Cork, being in McDonalds, being drunk or asking for Lobster?



Just that combination.


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## casiopea (22 Jun 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Yes you ARE being unreasonable. I have been a diagnosed coeliac for over 10 years now and I would not expect a restaurant/cafe or deli to pander to my needs. When I go to such an establishment I outline what I can and cannot have and usually ask the chef to recommend something- in the early years of my diagnosis this was very difficult but in later years I find it easier and easier.BTW most soups have wheat in them as a thickener, so something you should check out.



Hmmm,  its debatable (which we are doing I suppose) - Im also Coeliac and it is annoying that I have to pay for that bread I cant eat.  For me I just avoid the whole thing but its a pity if you are in the mood for a salad and cant order it as youve to pay for something that is poisonous for you.  I dont expect establishments to specifically cater for me so I usually just avoid the item but I agree with the poster regarding the extra charges for chicken etc.  I dont think it would be major step for those establishments to remove the bread/cost.  Ill stop rambling.


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## Purple (23 Jun 2008)

casiopea said:


> Hmmm,  its debatable (which we are doing I suppose) - Im also Coeliac and it is annoying that I have to pay for that bread I cant eat.  For me I just avoid the whole thing but its a pity if you are in the mood for a salad and cant order it as youve to pay for something that is poisonous for you.  I dont expect establishments to specifically cater for me so I usually just avoid the item but I agree with the poster regarding the extra charges for chicken etc.  I dont think it would be major step for those establishments to remove the bread/cost.  Ill stop rambling.


 Why not get someone else to eat the bread? That way it won't bother you later as eaten bread is soon forgotten...


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## gillarosa (23 Jun 2008)

seriams said:


> Am I being unreasonable? It’s only now that I have to steer clear of wheat that I have noticed how our nation put up with these absolutely ridiculous menu rules. Surely you should be allowed to eat what you want when you want it. As for me? I’m sticking to my packed lunch!!


 
Other than price though the real issue is choice, I believe that Ireland has a high rate of coeliac disease relative to other nations and its not really something that is addressed by any food outlets in this country, its not a lifestyle choice or diet fad on behalf of the sufferers, and they are not exactly few and far between.


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## ClubMan (23 Jun 2008)

casiopea said:


> Im also Coeliac and it is annoying that I have to pay for that bread I cant eat.  For me I just avoid the whole thing but its a pity if you are in the mood for a salad and cant order it as youve to pay for something that is poisonous for you.


You do not "have to" pay for the bread. You can take your custom elsewhere. Or you can choose to pay for the lunch (including bread) and just not eat the bread. 


> I dont expect establishments to specifically cater for me


So why do you find it annoying when they don't?!


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## casiopea (24 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> You do not "have to" pay for the bread. You can take your custom elsewhere. Or you can choose to pay for the lunch (including bread) and just not eat the bread.



I know and I do.



ClubMan said:


> So why do you find it annoying when they don't?!



I dont regard not charging for the bread as catering for a diet.  As I said, and a previous poster wrote, establishments charge extra for chicken (in a salad), some places charge extra for the little ketchup sachets etc.  It wouldnt be a big thing to charge for the bread separately.


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## ClubMan (24 Jun 2008)

casiopea said:


> It wouldnt be a big thing to charge for the bread separately.


I would imagine that some food retailers might disagree with you there and argue that fixed priced meal options with no substitutions/variations are a more suitable option for the majority of their customers and for the smooth running of their businesses.


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## casiopea (24 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I would imagine that some food retailers might disagree with you there and argue that fixed priced meal options with no substitutions/variations are a more suitable option for the majority of their customers and for the smooth running of their businesses.



I agree, for some retailers its not feasible however for some it would be.  
Also its becoming increasingly more and more common for retailers to provide a glutenfree option for bread (glutenfree bread or ricecakes) if you request it as so many people adhere to a glutenfree diet (not just coeliacs).


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## yob (24 Jun 2008)

theres a debate going on about people bringing there own sweets to the cinema,and weather its right or wrong,because of the prices the cinemas charge for these items,
and i personally think its wrong,now this is a different issue,when a medical condition dictates what you can and canot eat,so for that reason i do see people bring there own sandwich to a cafe and the propriotor allowing it,also if you phoned in advance i'm sure you would be accomidated,as has been said its a common problem today and i have seen it done,where they would get the gluten free bread in,and make a sandwich all be it regular customers from an office down the road.
as far as the salad is concerned why cant they replace the croutons with sunflower seeds,the sandwich,well why not serve it like an open sandwich,except with rice cakes,or spelt bread,(can coeliacs eat spelt?),anyway just a thought,or are we just looking for a discount


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## casiopea (24 Jun 2008)

yob said:


> theres a debate going on about people bringing there own sweets to the cinema,and weather its right or wrong,because of the prices the cinemas charge for these items,
> and i personally think its wrong,now this is a different issue,when a medical condition dictates what you can and canot eat,so for that reason i do see people bring there own sandwich to a cafe and the propriotor allowing it,also if you phoned in advance i'm sure you would be accomidated,as has been said its a common problem today and i have seen it done,where they would get the gluten free bread in,and make a sandwich all be it regular customers from an office down the road.



Is this the longest AAM sentence ;o)



yob said:


> when a medical condition dictates what you can and canot eat,so for that reason i do see people bring there own sandwich to a cafe and the propriotor allowing it



I was asked to leave a well known Irish sandwich bar on Baggot st. for doing this. I bought one of their salads and produced my own bread when eating it.  The manageress shouted at me about eating food not bought on their premises (there was a sign up) I tried to explain reasonably that I would eat their bread if I could but I cant and that I had bought the main part of my lunch (salad) there - no go - I was out.  It was only afterwards that I was annoyed that I didnt kick up more of a fuss but it all happened so quickly and was so upsetting that I just left.


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## yob (24 Jun 2008)

perhaps if you showed good manners,and asked,explaining your position i doubt any manager would refuse you,sorry is this to long for you,its all about your aproach.
 see how annoyed you were afterwards,well thats how annoyed she was seeing you eat your own bread.


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## casiopea (25 Jun 2008)

yob said:


> perhaps if you showed good manners,and asked,explaining your position i doubt any manager would refuse you,sorry is this to long for you,its all about your aproach.
> see how annoyed you were afterwards,well thats how annoyed she was seeing you eat your own bread.



I didnt mean any offence yob by pointing out the long sentence hence the smiley face.  I didnt ask if I could eat my own bread as it didnt strike me - it was a mistake not a lack of manners.


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## yob (25 Jun 2008)

Respect casiopea.
i hear what your saying,i freequent a number of coffee shops and cafes where i've worked for a great number of year,and it amazes me,the request people make.but a medical condition is usually acommidated,as i well know.
my friend who has such an establishment says his pet hate is people walking in and using his toilet,and then leaving,he would never refuse anyone,but they dont even ask.
i was in a coffee shop one time where three ladies came in,one had a cappochino,the second a coffee and the third boiled water,the propritor charged the lady with the boiled water,well a row developed,the customer said she had a cheek to charge for water,and it was pure greed,and she would report her to the athorities,mmmm,dont think anything became of it as the buisness is still going strong,there providing a service and it must be paid for,sorry i tend to go on........


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## Purple (25 Jun 2008)

yob said:


> i was in a coffee shop one time where three ladies came in,one had a cappochino,the second a coffee and the third boiled water,the propritor charged the lady with the boiled water,well a row developed,the customer said she had a cheek to charge for water,and it was pure greed,and she would report her to the athorities,mmmm,dont think anything became of it as the buisness is still going strong,there providing a service and it must be paid for,sorry i tend to go on........


 Did the lady in question boil the water herself and use her own mug? If so she was right. If not...


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