# Tenant smoking weed - options?



## btbmcd (23 Apr 2014)

I let a property to a group of tenants last September - students who signed a contract until end of May. The group have dwindled away and on meeting one of the recent leavers I asked why they left. She complained that one of the others in the house spent the day smoking weed, and had friends over all the time to join in the craic (excuse the pun).

I've been trying to contact the tenant in question but they are not responding - possibly away for Easter break. However when I called to the property a few days ago another tenant let me in and there in one of the reception rooms was the equipment and evidence of the activity. I do not suspect for a minute that the tenant in the house is involved.

The offending tenant still refuses to return calls / emails. At this stage I want him out rather than have him and his cronies stoned all day in my property. Is a call to the guards an option? I'm out of pocket due to unpaid bills etc etc but at this stage my bigger concern is for the property.


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> I'm out of pocket due to unpaid bills etc etc but at this stage my bigger concern is for the property.


 

What unpaid bills?  What is your concern for the property.  Weed is fairly harmless but it is illegal.  But they could just as easily be taking legal alcohol and doing more damage, or taking nothing doesn't prevent one from having nightmare tenants.  It's now April, surely the term is up next month?


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

Hi Bronte, the guys only part paid utility bills (as in the past I had left them in my name because the utility companies always demand a big deposit from students - it's never been an issue before but lesson learned on my behalf now).

Having a guys hanging around the house smoking weed with his buddies is not what I want especially as I have no idea who these people are.


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## Ceist Beag (24 Apr 2014)

I think you're being a bit naive here tbh. Students smoking weed ... whatever next! As Bronte said, I think there is more likelihood of property damage with alcohol. I think at this stage you would be better off waiting for the term to end and the students move out.


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

You're probably right CB - I'm not a complete prude, but I do know that at least 2 of the people who moved out said they just couldn't hack it because this guy made the house a mess and with his fellow "smackheads" around the house all day it was too uncomfortable.


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## so-crates (24 Apr 2014)

"smackheads"? Weed and smack are quite different things (one is spamspamspam the other is usually heroin) Are you using the term or was that the description the other tenants gave you? Were they specific as to the problem tenant's drug use? Both would be controlled substances but they don't tend to be placed in the same bracket by most people. What equipment and evidence of activity did you note?

As these are students, was there any involvement in the contract by the parent(s) of this person? As guarantor? Perhaps contacting them with regards to the unpaid bills might get a response.


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

so-crates said:


> "smackheads"? Weed and smack are quite different things (one is spamspamspam the other is usually heroin) Are you using the term or was that the description the other tenants gave you? Were they specific as to the problem tenant's drug use? Both would be controlled substances but they don't tend to be placed in the same bracket by most people. What equipment and evidence of activity did you note?
> 
> As these are students, was there any involvement in the contract by the parent(s) of this person? As guarantor? Perhaps contacting them with regards to the unpaid bills might get a response.



That was the term used by one of the others that left - to be honest I don't believe there's heroin involved. What I have seen (and photographed) is one of those funnel type flasks, a roll of tin foil and some butts of roll ups (I'm not an expert in this but I suspect it's spamspamspam). Parents did not sign contracts but a parent of the key suspect in this has been in touch with me in the past, I suspect they probably know that there is a problem but not sure if they will engage.


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## laois1 (24 Apr 2014)

I'm no expert but tin foil is not usually associated with spamspamspam use. I'd be concerned re heroin use if I had seen this around the place. Having bills in own name is a definite no no. Did you have a deposit held ? Smack head also refers to heroin, perhaps it's time to have a chat at the local Garda station.


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## Janet (24 Apr 2014)

laois1 said:


> I'm no expert but tin foil is not usually associated with spamspamspam use.



I friend of mine who was too broke to afford to buy one (and yet managed to always find the money to buy beer and spamspamspam, go figure) used a tinfoil roll with a hole cut out and the whole thing covered in tinfoil somehow as a pipe for smoking the spamspamspam. Could be something like that. Either way, given unpaid bills and causing the landlord to lose other tenants, it looks like this tenant has outstayed his welcome. Since he won't respond to your calls or texts, how about sending a letter to him at his parents or something like that?


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

In fairness i think the tin foil is probably more likely to be use at the end of a pipe / flask. Leaving the bills in my name is something I have done in good faith for years without it being a problem, I worked on the basis that treating people fairly well and building some kind of relationship avoided these kind of issues - but lesson learned now. I called the parent yesterday and left a voicemail that the son wasn't responding to emails / calls and I needed to make contact urgently but guess what?.......... no response ;-)


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## Time (24 Apr 2014)

If they are using illegal drugs I would have them out on their ears. I don't buy all this "sure it is no harm" bull. We either respect the law of the land or there will be anarchy.


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## so-crates (24 Apr 2014)

Another point to consider... if the individual is providing their "smackhead" friends with drugs when they come over the gardaí could be knocking on the door looking to arrest them for supply. I think you need to query the tenants who have left to try and establish exactly what is being used and whether your tenant is supplying drugs. I would also be inclined to agree with Time and suggest you move against them. Given that it is coming up to exam times it must be quite a problem for the other tenants to feel they need to leave.


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

In my innocence I don't think it's a supply issue, the problem with moving against this person is that it'll probably end up at a PRTB hearing which I may lose out on because in the contract it doesn't mention that you can't smoke weed all and I have to give 28 days notice etc etc.


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## STEINER (24 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> I let a property to a group of tenants last September - students who signed a contract until end of May



You only have this problem for a few more weeks......

Try vetting students more, students studying intensive courses are less likely to have the inclination or time for smoking weed all day - no pass BA candidates need apply.


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## Time (24 Apr 2014)

> no pass ba candidates need apply.


lol! :d


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> In my innocence I don't think it's a supply issue, the problem with moving against this person is that it'll probably end up at a PRTB hearing which I may lose out on because in the contract it doesn't mention that you can't smoke weed all and I have to give 28 days notice etc etc.


 
I don't believe smoking or taking illegal substances has to be in the lease for you to have grounds to evict them.  You could easily just report them to the Gardai, you took pictures of the stuff you mentioned.  Still don't tink on the 24th April it's worth it though.


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## AlbacoreA (24 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> I let a property to a group of tenants last September - students who signed a contract until end of May. The group have dwindled away and on meeting one of the recent leavers....



Sorry go back to the start. The property should rents as one unit to an individual. How are people leaving? Are they being replaced, is one person paying the full rent?


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

When the first person left they were replaced but after that I was at a loss of the reduced rent.....my own kids were students a couple of years ago, I have a fair idea what they get up to. I've let to students for years with very few problems on the basis that you get a good deposit, you treat them fairly and it should be good for both parties.

However thanks to the PRTB - NEVER AGAIN. When people started to leave they all quoted PRTB "once I give you 28 days notice I'm entitled to my deposit back blah blah....". This, even tough they all knew the signed a contract to end of May. 

I'm kind of looking forward to early August listening to the whineline and all the mothers ringing into Joe about the way their little darlings can't get accommodation for love nor money and about the exhorbitant rents in Dublin.

Hopefully some of them will get onto the PRTB about how they are driving availability down by telling students that it doesn't matter what kind of a contract you sign - you can just walk away at 28 days notice.....


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## AlbacoreA (24 Apr 2014)

Well you caused your own downfall there. Rent to one person. Get the deposit from one person. Anyone breaks the contract they lose the deposit. One moves out, they all move out. If they they find someone else for the room the contract starts over. 

Illegal activity breaks the contract/lease assuming its on the contract/lease. 

Of course you might consider if you don't report it, and you don't issue notice about it, can a claim be made against the LL. 

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1704

[broken link removed]

Maybe a word to the references, asking to reconfirm the references, without saying why, might get the references to ask some awkward questions of these students.


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## btbmcd (24 Apr 2014)

Thanks AlbacoreA - some interesting stuff there. 

They all signed the lease but when you say "Anyone breaks the contract they lose the deposit" Each person who moved out quoted the exact same text provided by the PRTB.... _I hereby give you 28 days notice and will be due my deposit back _

When you say "one moves out, they all move out." Apparently that is not the advice they were given by the PRTB - _once they were paying their share of the rent they could not be evicted_

"Illegal activity breaks the contract/lease assuming its on the contract/lease".  I doubt if many leases specify that smoking cannibas will result in eviction?

It just strikes me that the PRTB has turned into a monster and like Threshold which started off with good intentions to improve standards they are both now telling tenants that they can pretty much do as they like (walk away regardless with 28 days notice etc etc.). I know several people who have houses let and while rents have gone up quite a lot in the last couple of years it's just not worth the hassle because invariably one out of every 4/5 tenants will be bolshy and start quoting / threatening PRTB or Dublin City Council.

The really ironic thing here, when I advertised the house I had >100 interested parties. I said I would show it on an afternoon during the week to see how many were really interested. At least 50 people showed up (in different parties) and one brought an Aunt who was a neighbour who literally pleaded with me to give it to them and she would make sure there was no messing....aaaaaggghhh


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## serotoninsid (24 Apr 2014)

Surely the spamspamspam thing is secondary.  Is there an issue with the tenant or is there not (taking spamspamspam out of the equation)?  Tin foil is not an indicator of hard drug use in and of itself!


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## AlbacoreA (24 Apr 2014)

You don't seem very clear on how the property is being rented. Or the laws and conditions attracted. I suspect what you've done is rented rooms. not the property. I'm guessing that's what they told the PRTB. Renting rooms is different to renting a entire house.  It changes what you can do. Renting rooms can get very messy. As you've discovered. 

Contact PRTB yourself. find out first hand, not from the tenants. PRTB also side with landlords only IF they are in the right.

However Threashold in my experience always side with the tenants. That's their objective. They don't give a fiddlers about LL's.  I think they can give poor advice due to this bias.


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## Bronte (25 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> They all signed the lease but when you say "Anyone breaks the contract they lose the deposit" Each person who moved out quoted the exact same text provided by the PRTB.... _I hereby give you 28 days notice and will be due my deposit back _


 
Very smart students those.  Did they give you the notice in writing?  That's the only bit of the rules I know that is a requirement.  

If you're renting by the room, which is apparetly what you are doing, is that not a very bad idea.  Ditto the utilities.  Next time they are begging to stay, let them deal with the utilities.  

Why are so many of them moving around, is this normal for students.  I don't take students myself, too much risk of damage, but uppity ones quoting the PRTB at me would drive me insane.  

Even though I'm a landlord I don't know the rules on notice as I just ignore all that, if the tenant wants to leave it's fine by me.  But no tenant has ever served me notice in writing or quoted the PRTB to me.  

I did though think if there was a fixed term lease that they couldn't serve you notice.


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## PaddyBloggit (25 Apr 2014)

Report it to the Gardaí.


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## btbmcd (25 Apr 2014)

AlbacoreA said:


> You don't seem very clear on how the property is being rented. Or the laws and conditions attracted. I suspect what you've done is rented rooms. not the property.



To be clear - I rented *the house* for 1 year as I have done for quite a few years before..... I did not rent by room.


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## btbmcd (25 Apr 2014)

Bronte said:


> Very smart students those.  Did they give you the notice in writing?  That's the only bit of the rules I know that is a requirement.  *Yes the put it in writing (wording provided by the PRTB)*
> 
> If you're renting by the room, which is apparetly what you are doing, *nope  *is that not a very bad idea.* agree*  Ditto the utilities.  Next time they are begging to stay, let them deal with the utilities.
> 
> ...


* I'll give the PRTB a call to check out.*


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## postman pat (25 Apr 2014)

Time said:


> If they are using illegal drugs I would have them out on their ears. I don't buy all this "sure it is no harm" bull. We either respect the law of the land or there will be anarchy.



Very good point,where does it end... do the liberals want "a la carte " laws?
Im more than surprised by some of the replies and comments on this issue.


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## so-crates (25 Apr 2014)

Bronte said:


> ... but uppity ones quoting the PRTB at me would drive me insane.  ...



Having been one of those uppity students I would have to take umbrage  they have taken care to inform themselves and are trying to do it by the book. 

Frankly, it sounds like the other students have found themselves in an awkward and uncomfortable situation and having done some research or perhaps spoken to their SU or to Threshold have found that they can get out of it. As I said, this close to exams it is surprising for any student to decide a move is necessary so it must be quite serious a problem they are encountering and once one finds the way they would have told the others.

Not great for the poor landlord stuck with the problem tenant but by what btbmcd has said I don't think (s)he has had any issue with the ones who have left per se (aside from the fact they leave him/her with what would seem to be an unrentable room)

A classic case of a bad egg spoiling it for everyone else. btbmcd has tried to play fair as (s)he knows they are students and until this year that has been okay but now having had this experience with one person (s)he will change approach.


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## Bronte (25 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> * I'll give the PRTB a call to check out.*


 
Oh please do. And find out how to avoid them giving you 28 days notice after only being there a couple of months. While you're on to them, ask them where this info is on their website, so you can quote it verbatum to your next tenants.

Edit: Next time the parents are whinging to Joe, ie next August, phone up and state why you don't want students.


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## Bronte (25 Apr 2014)

postman pat said:


> Im more than surprised by some of the replies and comments on this issue.


 
I think some of us don't feel we are the moral guardians of others. I don't want to know what my tenants are up to. What next, we have to check their bedroom habits, how many cans they have of a Saturday night and downloading of porn. It's hard enough minding my own children.

And now there's a court case where a landlord has to pay up because of the unsocial behaviour of his tenants. Where's the Gardai, the council, the law.

Bet anything that if Btbmcd went to the Gardai about the weed they wouldn't do a thing.  And you can be sure as hell if he turfed the little lad out the parents would be onto Joe, and landlord would be haulted to the PRTB to explain that he isn't a horrible landlord.


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## DB74 (25 Apr 2014)

Bronte said:


> I don't want to know what my tenants are up to.



Once they pay the rent sure who cares what misery they are imposing on neighbours


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## AlbacoreA (25 Apr 2014)

DB74 said:


> Once they pay the rent sure who cares what misery they are imposing on neighbours



Unfortunately caring doesn't provide the LL with any legal means of prompt action. The LL is is damned if they do nothing, or if they do something.


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## AlbacoreA (25 Apr 2014)

btbmcd said:


> To be clear - I rented *the house* for 1 year as I have done for quite a few years before..... I did not rent by room.



Then AFAIK you don't have to return a deposit by room etc. The tenants themselves have to manage that and any shortfall in tent themselves.


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## serotoninsid (25 Apr 2014)

DB74 said:


> Once they pay the rent sure who cares what misery they are imposing on neighbours


What problems are being caused to neighbours in this case?  In any event, how could a LL be made responsible for the actions of others!?  Neighbours have to formally complain to the Gardai.  If our laws are not stringent enough to deal with anti-social behaviour, that's hardly the fault of a landlord?



			
				postman pat said:
			
		

> Very good point,where does it end... do the liberals want "a la carte " laws?
> I'm more than surprised by some of the replies and comments on this issue.


A landlord is running a business.  Not setting himself up as some sort of moral compass!


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## postman pat (26 Apr 2014)

serotoninsid said:


> What problems are being caused to neighbours in this case?  In any event, how could a LL be made responsible for the actions of others!?  Neighbours have to formally complain to the Gardai.  If our laws are not stringent enough to deal with anti-social behaviour, that's hardly the fault of a landlord?
> 
> 
> A landlord is running a business.  Not setting himself up as some sort of moral compass!



Am I missing something here?... i dont care what people take/smoke/inject but if someone is spaced out in MY house I do.I"m on the side of landlords on this  if I didnt make it clear before.


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## serotoninsid (26 Apr 2014)

postman pat said:


> Am I missing something here?... i dont care what people take/smoke/inject but if someone is spaced out in MY house I do.I"m on the side of landlords on this if I didnt make it clear before.


Is this individual doing any damage to the property?  If so, then it's an issue (but one which is down to the individual).  Condensing it down, it seems that a group of house mates shared a house and found they didn't get on!  That's hardly a new occurrence!

Smoking pot (or drinking alcohol or whatever else..) is secondary.


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## ccdebtor (18 Jul 2014)

This is so unfair, I am a private renting tenant in receipt of rent allowance as I am disabled, and I have a cottage for me and my dogs which I keep well and wouldn't dream of not paying rent or bills even if I had to go without food etc to do so! These rules and bad tenants make it harder for the likes of me to find suitable affordable homes to rent even tho many of us are responsible tenants. I have been on the other end of the stick where the landlord kept my 1100 deposit because there "was a dead mouse in a press 2wks after we moved out"!! Threshold could do nothing so I was basically robbed!


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## Bronte (18 Jul 2014)

ccdebtor said:


> . I have been on the other end of the stick where the landlord kept my 1100 deposit because there "was a dead mouse in a press 2wks after we moved out"!! Threshold could do nothing so I was basically robbed!


 
Now you're going to have to explain how the landlord was legally entitled to take 1100 deposit for a dead mouse.  And also what did Threshold actually advise you?


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## Bronte (18 Jul 2014)

DB74 said:


> Once they pay the rent sure who cares what misery they are imposing on neighbours


 
That's not what I said.  My meaning is well clear.  As long as tenants are behaving themselves, and even if they are smoking weed or whatever, as long as they are not bothering anybody or causing damage I have no interest in what they get up to.


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## Bronte (18 Jul 2014)

serotoninsid said:


> In any event, how could a LL be made responsible for the actions of others!? Neighbours have to formally complain to the Gardai. If our laws are not stringent enough to deal with anti-social behaviour, that's hardly the fault of a landlord?


 
Actually the law is quite useless.  We've had posters living beside the worst of people unable to do anything about it. There was a particularly desparate story about 2 years ago but she was dealing with owners.  

But in relation to landlords, we have a responsibilty in relation to our tenants anti social behaviour.  If the neighbours complain to the PRTB we have to get the tenants out.  And to get them out, you can forget the gardai or the PRTB helping you.  As for the law, that will cost one, and take forever.  Meanwhile you can be sure the tenants will be paying you zero and leave the house in a miserable state.  

As for unsocial behavior in state housing, no PRTB rules apply to them, so they stay and never get evicted (or one case every couple of years, murder, serious anti social, drug dealing types)


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## serotoninsid (18 Jul 2014)

Bronte said:


> Actually the law is quite useless....But in relation to landlords, we have a responsibilty in relation to our tenants anti social behaviour.  If the neighbours complain to the PRTB we have to get the tenants out.  And to get them out, you can forget the gardai or the PRTB helping you.


Then this is far worse a scenario than I thought.  You mean that on the one hand the onus is on the landlord to act yet there is no official facility for them to do so??  How can the PRTB demand action if legally the LL can't act?


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