# Getting yelled at for having my dog off the leash...



## flossie (4 May 2012)

Morning all,

I would value some opinions here. Every morning, i take the dog for a walk for about an hour around a boardwalk in the forest. I have been doing this for a year at least, down there the minute the gate opens. There are a handful of us dog walkers, and most of us will let the dog off the leash.

There are signs saying 'Please keep the dog on the leash' which i have interpreted as being a request as opposed to an order. The reason i go down first things is to let the dog run before there are any children around, and while it is quiet. If i see a dog i don't know, or if i see a young child, i put the dog back on the leash. My dog is very quiet, and just walks around sniffing, and then running along to catch up with me - he is always in my sight. Most mornings I see the same three dog walkers, and maybe one or two regular walkers - never had an issue with this.

This morning, on the way back to the car, a lady was power walking towards me and yelled at me to put the dog on the leash. This was a lady i have never seen before, so i put dog on the leash thinking she might be scared etc. However, when she came to me she started yelling saying all dogs should be one the leash, she would be reporting me to the dog warden, all dogs should be banned from the area etc. etc. In retaliation i told her i thought she had a stinking attitude and was small minded. I also pointed out that I interpreted the word 'Please' as a request, not an order. 

At the time, my dog was sniffing a patch of grass, he wasn't bounding up to her or anything and came straight to me when i called him over to put him on the leash. I really would not let my dog off the leash if i didn't trust him enough or if i didn't feel i had control of him. As a result of this morning, i am raging. Am i overreacting?

I always carry dog mess bags and pick up my waste (it's a pet hate of mine when people don't), go down first thing in the morning, and generally feel i am being a responsible owner. Now i am worried that i will be reported to the dog warden - if a sign says 'Please keep dogs on leash', am I in the wrong for letting him off? If the sign said 'Dogs must be kept on a elash' that would be different in my eyes.

I have never seen this woman in the area before, and it would be such a shame if dogs were banned from walking in the area (there are very places I know of where dogs can run free). What are your opinions?


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## gipimann (4 May 2012)

Local authorities can set bye-laws regarding the times and places where dogs can be allowed off a leash.   A conviction for a breach of the bye-law carries a max penalty of a fine of €1904.61.

You might like to check whether a bye-law applies to your walking area.


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## alexandra123 (4 May 2012)

Check with the other dog walkers - to see if they have also been approached by this woman or any other person about the same topic.

Although I can understand your fury I would try and not let it get to me too much. Contact the council if your really worried and ask them are dogs exempt from walking in that area without a leash. 

She can report you to the warden, but she needs to prove it !


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## huskerdu (4 May 2012)

Who owns the forest that you were walking in  ?

The law does not say that dogs must be kept on a lead, unless they are particular breeds. 

If the forest belongs to or is in the control of a local authority, they can stipulate that dogs must be on a lead, that would be standard in local authority parks. 

Was it obvious from the sign who put it up, the local authority ? Coillte, maybe ?

The lady who yelled at you might complain, but who knows, Maybe she was just rude.


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## ajapale (4 May 2012)

Perhaps its the National Parks & Wildlife Service? I know that there is a problem in certain parts of the country with dogs attacking baby deer and baby lambs in adjoining farmers fields.


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

It's a forest park, as opposed to a forest - if that makes sense? I don't think it's Coillte, perhaps the council. I will check.

I was going to call the dog warden and see what they say - if the dog warden says they must be on a leash, then fair enough, i will happily obey that. My dog is a cross breed, but not on the restricted breeds list. The annoying thing is that I go every morning when i am not working away, and have built a very good rapprt with the other dog walkers and normal walkers. For me to come across this woman once and spoil it, then it's not fair (in my eyes). I was thinking of i see her again i might be polite, and ask her if i could see what her reasoning for upset is. This might make me understand a little more - if she has been attacked by a dog before, or is generally afraid, fair enough, but if it's just a general dislike of dogs that's uncalled for. What does she do when she is down by the river, or stray dogs walkign aorund the town?


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

huskerdu said:


> Who owns the forest that you were walking in ?
> 
> Was it obvious from the sign who put it up, the local authority ? Coillte, maybe ?


 
The sign is a piece of A4 paper, in a plastic sleeve that has been nailed to a post at one entrance to the trail. There are 2 entrances. I only see it because i walk there every day and it caught my attention when it went up as it looked different.


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## Jazz01 (4 May 2012)

Ideally, dogs should be kept on a leash in a public area... but not always the case.

Maybe this woman just had a bad experience with a dog hence the reaction you were exposed to. Might be a once off with her being there... so in your position I would continue to do as you were always doing.


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

I have jsut called up the Carlow Kilkenny dog sheltern and warden for advice. I explained the situation, and even though it is effectively a public place, as long as my dog has a collar and tag, I have a dog licence, and i am in effective control of the dog, I was doing no wrong. When i asked if i could be reported, he said no - the lady could report all she likes. It seems more like a general anxiety issue (or just plain rude!) form the lady in question. Th


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## demoivre (4 May 2012)

flossie said:


> I have jsut called up the Carlow Kilkenny dog sheltern and warden for advice. I explained the situation, and even though it is effectively a public place, as long as my dog has a collar and tag, I have a dog licence, and i am in *effective control of the dog*, I was doing no wrong.



That's the paradox though - you aren't in effective control of a loose dog as there are no guarantees that he will do what he is told!


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## elcato (4 May 2012)

You need to tell this woman that you will not put your dog on a leash and that you have every right to go for a walk there. Then ignore her from then on.


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## Eithneangela (4 May 2012)

I totally disagree with Elcato - I'm terrified of dogs and to see one hurtling towards me, whether playful or not, is a nightmare for me and leaves me a shuddering, shrieking mess. So, if there's a public walk where dog owners are requested to leash the dog, then I think they should.


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

demoivre said:


> That's the paradox though - you aren't in effective control of a loose dog as there are no guarantees that he will do what he is told!


 
Point taken, but when you tell him to wait, he stops in his tracks and lets you put the leash on. Like I said, he goes on the leash when unknown dogs are approaching.

I have put my dog licence in the car with my insurance certificate just in case the woman gets the dog warden to come down. At least I have sought advice and can proceed on the basis I have been told all is OK. If i meet the woman again I will calmly state that i am doing no wrong in the eyes of the dog warden. It's a shame she had such a negative approach, a few quiet words could have resolved this.


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## demoivre (4 May 2012)

flossie said:


> Point taken, but when you tell him to wait, he stops in his tracks and lets you put the leash on. Like I said, he goes on the leash when unknown dogs are approaching.
> 
> I have put my dog licence in the car with my insurance certificate just in case the woman gets the dog warden to come down. At least I have sought advice and can proceed on the basis I have been told all is OK. If i meet the woman again I will calmly state that i am doing no wrong in the eyes of the dog warden. It's a shame she had such a negative approach, a few quiet words could have resolved this.



It's the legislation I find perplexing - how can you be in "effectual control" of a loose dog? I suppose it's open to interpretation but in my experience the dog warden will come down hardest on the responsible dog owner, who they receive complaints about, and will ignore the greyhounds running out on to a main road from a halting site ! Too much hassle.


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## truthseeker (4 May 2012)

I can understand it from both sides tbh.

Personally Im a bit of a rule follower in areas where other people are also trying to enjoy the area, so if I saw the sign, Id leash my dog (I dont have a dog - but hypothetically).

However, if there are also other unleashed dogs, the dog has good recall, etc, then I can understand why you dont leash the dog. It is true though, that an unleashed dog is never under full control, you never know what is going to happen, another dog to attack your dog, a person to frighten your dog, a small animal to bite your dog - that will cause the dog to react in an unpredictable manner.

From the angry womans point of view - first of all there are constructive ways to approach someone, and that wasnt one of them! However, Ive been attacked and almost bitten in a Coillte forest while the owners sat at the side saying 'he wont go near you, he is only playing guard dog' and their uncontrolled dog was growling, snarling, nipping and running at me with full on attack body language. So she may have had an experience with an irresponsible owner before and thinks everyone with a dog off leash is going to act the same way.

As Eithneangela points out, some people are terrified of dogs, and if thats the case then even a good dog on leash passing by can be a scary experience for them. And I think its important to remember this in public places.

If your dog just wanders along and sniff and then runs to catch up with you (invisible leash I used to call it with my last dog), then why not put him on a long extendable so he still has the same experience but you are sticking to the rules? 

I wouldbt be too bothered by one rude woman tbh, but I do think its important to respect other peoples enjoyment of an area by following the rules set out.

Oh - I would have read 'Please leash your dog' as politely saying 'Leash your dog' - and not as a request that can be ignored or interpreted as something you have a choice in.


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## Leo (4 May 2012)

Contact your local authority, they are responsible for setting out where and when dogs may be let of the leash in public areas. 

For example, in Dublin, the following applies:



> 3. A person in charge of a dog in an area specified in the First Schedule to these Bye-Laws [ except (a) American Pitbull Terrier, (b) Bull Mastiff ,
> (c) Doberman Pinscher, (d) English Bull Terrier, (e) German Shepherd (Alsatian), (f) Japenese Akita, (g) Japenese Tosa, (h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,
> (i) Rottweiler, (J) Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog) and to every other strain or cross
> of every breed of every type of dog described above] shall keep the dog on a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length if a fixed
> ...


 

Dublin City Councils Control of Dogs Bye-Laws 1994.


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## Billo (4 May 2012)

I am not a dog lover, so it really annoys me to see dog owners in public areas without having their dogs on a leash.  Show a little respect for other people and obey the rules.

Only a small minority clean up after their dogs. It is disgusting to see seaside walks destroyed by dogs running around out of owners sight and control.

That's my tuppence worth.


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

But that's the thing, it appears I am obeying the rules. I totally agree that out of control dogs should be on a leash, but i make the effort to get up early to minimise meeting people, take my dog out to a place he can stretch his legs and have a little freedom - this releases anxiety and results in a happy dog. I wouldn't let my dog off if i thought he was a nuisance in any ways - if i see young children he is put on a leash, and the same if we see unfamiliar dogs. I also clean up after the dog - every walking jacket of mine has a roll of litter bags, just in case. Apart from the fact it's illegal to clean up after your dog, it's a horrible thing to come across. There are a vast majority of dog owners who don't clean up, but i can't speak on their behalf. 

I am trying to be a responsible dog owner and doing everything above board - collar, ID tag, microchip, dog licence, insurance, integrating him with other animals and children etc. 

I was down the beach at the weekend - i choose isolated beaches where there are hardly any walkers, as with normal walking, he always remains in my sight and bags are with me. It's a good chance for them to be free, tire them out and allow them to explore. 

I'm not a child lover - i find it just as irritating when a child is allowed to run free, get under my feet, pick things up, cry uncontrollably and when parents don't have control on their kids. I know that's opening a whole other can of worms.


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## elcato (4 May 2012)

I'm not a scanger lover. It really annoys me to see them walking around in their tracksuits talking with that nasal air. They are also very threatening and it is illegal to take drugs. They should show a bit of respect ......


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## DB74 (4 May 2012)

elcato said:


> I'm not a scanger lover. It really annoys me to see them walking around in their tracksuits talking with that nasal air. They are also very threatening and it is illegal to take drugs. They should show a bit of respect ......



That really made me laugh


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## ney001 (4 May 2012)

flossie said:


> I'm not a child lover - i find it just as irritating when a child is allowed to run free, get under my feet, pick things up, cry uncontrollably and when parents don't have control on their kids. I know that's opening a whole other can of worms.



Haha a brave statement - wait for the backlash 

I have two dogs, both of which are as you say chipped, insured etc etc.  I also walk them on beaches and in areas with these leash signs  and I dot walk them on the lead.  I do try to avoid people as much as possible just in case you get some odd git who moans at you.  This woman is a busybody and you get them - fact of life.  Continue walking your dog as you do and let her rant and rave....loons everywhere  If you are ever approached by the dog warden (highly unlikely) tell him that the dog slipped the leash and you were trying to get it back on to him! very hard for him to prove otherwise


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## ney001 (4 May 2012)

elcato said:


> I'm not a scanger lover. It really annoys me to see them walking around in their tracksuits talking with that nasal air. They are also very threatening and it is illegal to take drugs. They should show a bit of respect ......



 very good elcato


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

elcato said:


> I'm not a scanger lover. It really annoys me to see them walking around in their tracksuits talking with that nasal air. They are also very threatening and it is illegal to take drugs. They should show a bit of respect ......


 
I wish we had a 'like' button on these threads......


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## flossie (4 May 2012)

ney001 said:


> Haha a brave statement - wait for the backlash
> 
> I have two dogs, both of which are as you say chipped, insured etc etc. I also walk them on beaches and in areas with these leash signs and I dot walk them on the lead. I do try to avoid people as much as possible just in case you get some odd git who moans at you. This woman is a busybody and you get them - fact of life. Continue walking your dog as you do and let her rant and rave....loons everywhere  If you are ever approached by the dog warden (highly unlikely) tell him that the dog slipped the leash and you were trying to get it back on to him! very hard for him to prove otherwise


 
Thanks ney001....I spoke with the dog warden on the phone this morning and he said the woman could report me all she likes. As long as the dog isn't threatening, being a nuisance etc. they have no issue. It's just upsetting to have somebody who can ruin my day before 9am by commenting on what i've been doing for a long time! I wouldn't be one for confrontation, so I would be half afraid of bumping into her again. Althougbh if i do i will politely tell he i've spoken with the relevant people. 

And yes, i know it was a bit of a brave statement - but it does get to me!


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## Vanilla (4 May 2012)

elcato said:


> i'm not a scanger lover. It really annoys me to see them walking around in their tracksuits talking with that nasal air. They are also very threatening and it is illegal to take drugs. They should show a bit of respect ......


 

lol:d


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## TarfHead (4 May 2012)

flossie said:


> There are signs saying 'Please keep the dog on the leash' which i have interpreted as being a request as opposed to an order.


 
LOL 

Which you chose to interpret in the way that best suited you. That, for me, sums it up.


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## irishmoss (4 May 2012)

If it was an order it would have said so. Any signs I've seen say underneath "By order of .....
Maybe the woman herself put the signs up )


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## Purple (4 May 2012)

I was walking with my (then) young child and dog (on a leash)in a park a few years back when another walkers small dog attacked my dog and my son a fright. The owner was upset that I picked their dog up and threw it into the shallow river beside the path. It takes all kinds I suppose...


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## mathepac (4 May 2012)

Purple said:


> ...The owner was upset that I picked their dog up and threw it ...


I've done this when a neighbour's dog insisted on digging from their side of the communal fence and defecating in my garden and terrorising my poor auld cat. Dog over fence first, followed by dog-poo from a shovel. I just got tired talking and seeing no action.


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## putsch (4 May 2012)

Thanks OP for starting this thread even though my views will collide with yours. You clearly think you are an estimable dog owner - doing and trying to do all the right things. And that is admirable. However, as a walker who is afraid of dogs I'd just like to say that I would like parks and walking to be organised around humans including those (very many) of us who are afraid of dogs..............rather than dogs.

When I was a child growing up in a south Dublin housing estate dog ownership was very exceptional - in an estate of 100 houses there were perhaps 10 dogs - we were one of the 10% so I did grow up with dogs. Today the % of dog ownership not only appears to be much greater but many people have multiple dogs ( I have no statistics but welcome if someone else has them). Although I walk regularly in my local park my pleasure is hugely impacted by the number of dogs whether they are on  a leash or not. There is a short hill walk near me that I used to like but it is now adopted by dog walkers mostly with at least 2 and more dogs on the leash and not. I really don't feel safe walking there any more.

I offer this as an alternative perspective. You may or may not wish to take my views on board.


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## STEINER (4 May 2012)

I think if signage prohibits unleashed dogs then dog owners should obey.  This is reasonable.

 Prior to becoming seriously ill, as a GAA player I would generally jog/train myself saturday mornings on my Club GAA pitch in a Dublin Council park.  The dogs brought out for walkies loved chasing me, grabbing my sliothairs, urinating on my kitbag, emptying their bowels on the pitch.  Owners invariably apologetic etc etc but didn't give a damn about the prominent unleashed dog signage.  Occasionally some idiot would start driving golf balls, again ignoring Golf prohibited signage.

I like dogs generally.  IMO dogs should be loose where it is allowed.


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## thesimpsons (7 May 2012)

I've had so many walks ruined by dog owners.  I don't care if your dog if only being friendly, I still shouldn't have to put up with a dog putting his nose which has just sniffed another dog's backside only minutes before, sniffing round me.  Why should I have to put up with a dog bounding along a pathway.  I've had people's dog come sniffing up to my kids in their buggy on on their bikes while the child is obviously crying or upset and the dog owner just laughing it off with a "he's only being friendly".   having a dog on long leashes which isn't pulled in when approaching another person is just plain rude.  I don't hate dogs but the majority of dog owners certainly leave alot to be desired in good behaviour towards other citizens.


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## Armada (7 May 2012)

Eithneangela said:


> I totally disagree with Elcato - I'm terrified of dogs and to see one hurtling towards me, whether playful or not, is a nightmare for me and leaves me a shuddering, shrieking mess. So, if there's a public walk where dog owners are requested to leash the dog, then I think they should.


 
Totally agree with you, Eithneangela..

An absolute nightmare for me to meet an unleashed dog! At this stage I have tried everything to overcome this fear but have not succeeded.


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## Leper (7 May 2012)

The signs say you must have your dog on the leash and how you interpreted that you need not have the dog on a leash is beyond me.  I know the law states that you must be in full control of your animal at all times. Its in black and white "Please keep dogs on leash"


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## niceoneted (7 May 2012)

I'm with Armada and Eithnrangela on this. Terrified of dogs and even more terrified of dog owners that don't respect that some people feel the way I do. I did get over this fear a number of years ago, but got bitten by a dog after so the fear returned. Also would never trust them again,


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## Bronte (8 May 2012)

I too am terrified of dogs, but not all dogs.  I think one should be allowed to walk in peace.  It doesn't bother me dogs not being on a leash if they do not approch me and if they are of a very calm breed.  Alsations and Rotweillers make me shake with fear if they are unleased.  My children too are afraid even though I've never displayed this fear.  They scream if a friendly dog runs up to them unexpectedly.  But they will pet a nice calm dog no problem.  

The worst thing is dog owners thinking it is acceptable for their dog to come anywhere near me without permission.  But as I said small calm breeds don't scare me.  Yesterday the neighbours dog got into our garden 'again' to chase our cat.  But I didn't mind as to me he's an ok dog, I've seen him in action and kids are not scared of him anymore. The cat and dog love chasing each other, I've never seen anything  like it, neighbour shouts at the cat and dog to stop and sprays them with water occasionally as she doesn't want cat to damage her furniture (rented house) and she found the cat inside asleep a few times. 

I sent over the kids to inform the neighbour about the dog and the 10 year old master asked them if they'd bring the dog over for him.   As if ! 

Flossie you were clearly wrong to have the dog unleased, but it wouldn't bother me if your dog was of a type that would never approch me and was not of what I consider a dangerous breed, or one that could do me harm.  Dogs can sense my fear.   Probably the lady you encountered had the same fear.


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## truthseeker (8 May 2012)

Bronte said:


> it wouldn't bother me if your dog was of a type that would never approch me and was not of what I consider a dangerous breed, or one that could do me harm.



The problem is, there is no telling as you approach if the dog is going to leave you alone or not. And respectfully, when you are being snarled at, teeth showing, snapped at - its frightening even when its a less 'dangerous' breed - as I can testify having been attacked by a good sized spaniel while the owners stood by. Its really only not frightening when its a dog smaller than your handbag, but even they can give a nasty nip.

For me the real issue on this thread is the OP deciding to interpret signs as they please and not as they state. To me that suggests a selfishness about using an area that other people also use. Some people are scared of dogs. Some people dont like dogs. Theyre entitled to use the area as well and if the dog walkers are breaking the rules it ruins their use of the area.

If you want your dog to run free, take him to a place specifically designed for him to run free or let him free on your own land.


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## Bronte (8 May 2012)

truthseeker said:


> And respectfully, when you are being snarled at, teeth showing, snapped at - its frightening even when its a less 'dangerous' breed .


 
You're absolutely right truthseeker, and to me a dog that does that is totally unacceptable but at least if it was small I could kick it. No way would I take on a large dog and so I have more fear of them.  

I cannot understand how any owner with a dog that does what you outlined would find it acceptable.  They're not fit to be owners.


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## Hans (8 May 2012)

What amazes me when I hear people talk about their pets (animal) they seem to evaluate them to children (person). I was in a house at weekend where their pet dog licked their baby's face after coming home from a walk where I watched the dog lick other dogs POO. Is it me or are we trying to bring the dog to human level or are we trying to bring our children to animal level.


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## Purple (9 May 2012)

Hans said:


> What amazes me when I hear people talk about their pets (animal) they seem to evaluate them to children (person). I was in a house at weekend where their pet dog licked their baby's face after coming home from a walk where I watched the dog lick other dogs POO. Is it me or are we trying to bring the dog to human level or are we trying to bring our children to animal level.



Yea, I agree with that.
I do tell my children that I prefer the dog to them but I'm half joking when I say it.


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## Bill Struth (10 May 2012)

In my experience dog owners are the most inconsiderate people around.

'Keep the dog on the leash' means exactly that, keep the dog on the leash.


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## liaconn (10 May 2012)

As someone who is terrified of dogs I get really anxious when I see a dog off the leash or on a very very long leash. I know a lot of owners are responsible and would make sure the dog doesn't run at me or jump around me. But I have also had plenty of experience of owners just standing by while their dog rushes up to me barking and leaping around the place. Reassurances that 'he won't hurt you. He's just being friendly' etc are absolutely no use in that situation. As a result, I really would prefer if dogs were kept on a leash in public places and especially if there is a sign requesting this.

Okay, that woman's reaction was over the top. But, as someone has already said, she may have had a few bad experiences from inconsiderate and downright stupid dogowners.


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## Kine (10 May 2012)

Purple said:


> I was walking with my (then) young child and dog (on a leash)in a park a few years back when another walkers small dog attacked my dog and my son a fright. The owner was upset that I picked their dog up and threw it into the shallow river beside the path. It takes all kinds I suppose...


 
That made me smile Purple - exactly how I would react (a bigger dog might require a slightly different reaction though!)


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## Ceepee (10 May 2012)

If the angry lady had not been angry but approached the OP and politely requested 'would you please keep your dog on a leash please?', I wonder how Flossie would have complied with the request?


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## truthseeker (10 May 2012)

liaconn said:


> Reassurances that 'he won't hurt you. He's just being friendly' etc are absolutely no use in that situation.



And not only are the reassurances no use, but they are incorrect. Excitement can lead to aggression. The prey drive can be triggered by someones fear. Or by someone trying to run away.

Owners who give the rubbish reassurances are irresponsible and idiotic.

Im a dog lover but I dont appreciate being slobbered on by strange dogs either.


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## beffers (10 May 2012)

liaconn said:


> As someone who is terrified of dogs I get really anxious when I see a dog off the leash or on a very very long leash. I know a lot of owners are responsible and would make sure the dog doesn't run at me or jump around me. But I have also had plenty of experience of owners just standing by while their dog rushes up to me barking and leaping around the place. Reassurances that 'he won't hurt you. He's just being friendly' etc are absolutely no use in that situation. As a result, I really would prefer if dogs were kept on a leash in public places and especially if there is a sign requesting this.
> 
> Okay, that woman's reaction was over the top. But, as someone has already said, she may have had a few bad experiences from inconsiderate and downright stupid dogowners.



Agree with that 100%

When I was 10, I walking down the road minding my own business when I was attacked and bitten by a Golden Labrador. He took a nice big chunk out of my thigh. I have been terrified by dogs ever since. If one runs anywhere near me and he is off his leash, I freeze up and panic. I would like to say that I react in a calm and rational manner. I do not. Fear does that to people. Dog owners just don't understand that. All the reassurances that Fido is the most lovable mutt on the planet, and is just "being friendly" don't mean a damm when my heart rate is going like a jack hammer. I don't condone the behaviour of the lady that the OP met, but I certainly understand it.

If there are enough people in the area where the OP was walking to warrant the council putting a sign up about dogs, than it should be obeyed at all times. It is inconsiderate & rude not to. Wanting Fido to be able to get a good stretch of his legs is laudable, but it should not come at the expense of causing emotional distress to others. Dog owners will no doubt roll their eyes at that phrase, and think that I am being over the top, but trust me, I am not.


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## Mouldy (11 May 2012)

As someone who has had dogs around them since day one, I fund it amazing how “city folk” think about dogs.

Dogs an get very excited and will often cause damage to property and people, thinking they are playing or thinking that their owner is in some kind of danger. This is most often the case. Believe me if even a mid size dog attacks you it could kill you if that’s what it wants. However years of domestic breeding has wiped that out of our dog stock.

Dogs are like any other animal, happy in their own territory (home) but anxious and excitable when out side this space. Good training will help owners keep dogs calm in social situations. Socialising young dogs with groups is now becoming popular in training centres. But it is naïve in the extreme to think that a dog off a leash in public place is under control.

Also be very aware that if a dog behaves aggressively or in a threatening manner towards anyone in public, regardless of actual damage, that dog can be seized and destroyed if the “victim” were to take it on themselves to launch a complaint and had a witness. This is the most obvious reason to keep a dog on a leash.

There is a growing culture of mastiff half and full breed dogs being kept as pets by families in 3-bed semis. These people have absolutely no idea what they are doing. If they did the would never have taken that breed of dog. Mastiff breeds should never, ever be off a lead in a public place. End of.

My two cents regarding pet dogs. For what it’s worth, it sounds like the OP is doing their best to give the dog a good life with minimal disturbance to others, which I think is commendable.


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## terrysgirl33 (11 May 2012)

'Please' to me does not signify a choice.  If I say to my children, "Please go and brush your teeth", it does not mean I don't care if they brush their teeth or not, it's a polite way to ask them to go and brush their teeth now!!


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## liaconn (11 May 2012)

I agree. If a request is posted asking people to keep their dog on a leash then I really think that should be respected. Deciding it is open to interpretation is the kind of thing that really does not do responsible dog owners any favours. I also agree that a criteria that a dog should be 'under control' is totally subjective and really do not see how this could be decided legally if a case came to court.


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## Kine (16 May 2012)

I was actually kind of on the fence for this argument until last night - went out for a run around the park and almost *no-one* had their dogs and leads and I did have to swerve once or twice to avoid a pooch running around. 

I am firmly in the "keep them on a lead" camp now!


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## truthseeker (16 May 2012)

Kine said:


> I was actually kind of on the fence for this argument until last night - went out for a run around the park and almost *no-one* had their dogs and leads and I did have to swerve once or twice to avoid a pooch running around.
> 
> I am firmly in the "keep them on a lead" camp now!



Just count yourself lucky your running didnt trigger anyones prey drive, Id a large dog launch himself after me running recently - luckily his recall was good and he did stop when called.


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## Kine (16 May 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Just count yourself lucky your running didnt trigger anyones prey drive, Id a large dog launch himself after me running recently - luckily his recall was good and he did stop when called.


 
It's OK - I'm very fast


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## truthseeker (16 May 2012)

Kine said:


> It's OK - I'm very fast



In fairness, it does do wonders for your workout to be getting chased by a huge dog 

I never knew I could move that fast.


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## Purple (16 May 2012)

truthseeker said:


> In fairness, it does do wonders for your workout to be getting chased by a huge dog
> 
> I never knew I could move that fast.



You just have to be faster than the person you are running with.


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## truthseeker (16 May 2012)

Purple said:


> You just have to be faster than the person you are running with.



Well thats my zombie apocalypse rule anyway.


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## Kine (16 May 2012)

Average running speed of a domestic dog is 15-30 mph....I could get away from the slower ones anyway (Usain Bolt hits about 30mph for some comparisons....)! 

Not too sure what the speed of a zombie is, but I will try figure it out the next time there's an apocalypse!


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## truthseeker (16 May 2012)

Kine said:


> Not too sure what the speed of a zombie is, but I will try figure it out the next time there's an apocalypse!



Well it really depends. Whatever was their average speed in life I think. So in theory - we could all be trying to get away from YOU!


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## Kine (17 May 2012)

Brains....

...nom nom nom


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## Bazoo (29 May 2012)

Ceepee said:


> If the angry lady had not been angry but approached the OP and politely requested 'would you please keep your dog on a leash please?', I wonder how Flossie would have complied with the request?



No doubt he would have continued to think that he had the right to keep his animal off the leash because he would have interpreted her request in whatever manner suited him.


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## Ceepee (29 May 2012)

Yes, in light of



flossie said:


> There are signs saying 'Please keep the dog on the leash' which i have interpreted as being a request as opposed to an order.
> 
> and this
> 
> I also pointed out that I interpreted the word 'Please' as a request, not an order.



I would also assume that, no matter how nicely she'd asked, the OP would interpret as he saw fit.


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