# Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collectors



## odarallo (8 Jun 2008)

Hey everyone here is the outline of whats going on.

I am with the phone company "3" and have been since August of 2007. 

I went away to Brazil on St Patrick's day March 17th and arrived back to Dublin 3.5 weeks later around mid April. 

When I arrived home I checked my current usage on my handset and it said €890 or something outrageous. 

While I was there I was unable to send sms which the official three.ie website claims you are able to do. While I was in Brazil I rang the three customer support and they could not fix the problem. So I was left with no other alternative but to use the call facility.

When I arrived home three rang me everyday to get the money of the outstanding balance but I refused to pay the price as it was a unjust amount. I explained to them I was not going to pay for a service they claimed was available thus them cutting my service and still charging me for it. 

A month later I got a letter from some English debt collection company that they would be calling to my house for money. As soon as i got this i basically soiled myself. Panicked really as my land lady would frown upon all this and I was possibly going to lose accommodation. 

So I went bought credit to call the Debt collection company. Finally got through to some ignorant guy who demanded I paid money and start questioning why I had a bill phone if I was unemployed. After asking could I make a payment option I was given no answer and he hung up.

Now it only took 2 months and they hand over my personal private information to a debt collection company. I was not provided a service they said was available and when I tried to make amends on it I get some snotty idiot who just hung up the phone on me.

I can admit maybe I spent about €400 in total on my trip while I was there and I was willing to pay that amount. Now the company give me a bad name and send people for the money and continue to charge me for a service I cant even use.

What do I do?!​*
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## Brendan Burgess (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Debt Collectors*

I think you go to the Small Claims Court after you exhaust the internal 3 complaints procedure.


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## ajapale (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Debt Collectors*

When you first became aware of the size (and nature) of the bill did you complain *in writing* to the  phone company? 

Are you disputing that you actually incurred these charges or are you complaining that a service (you expected) was not available to you in Brazil forcing you to rack up charges?

If its the latter then I suspect that you will just have to pay the bill in full.

Do you know or can you find out what three's dispute resolution process is? (write to them and ask)

Do you know or can you find out what this Debt Collectior's process is? (write to them and ask)

I have expanded the title somewhat to reflect more fully the question. Feel free to edit it your self.


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## micmclo (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Leaving aside the bill, I'm not so sure an English debt collection agency can pursue you here. Any issues with jurisdiction?
Maybe they can, it's just what I noticed from your post


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## bond-007 (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

You are dealing with NCO who are based in Blackpool in the UK. They have a Dublin phone number that redirects to NCO HQ. The do send a little postcard saying that they will call to see you on a certain day to collect payment. This is just a scare tactit as they won't bother calling. 

NCO are very ignorant of Irish law in these matters. If you ignore them they will just go away. UK debt collectors have no powers here. 

Now 3 will be very unwilling to help resolve the problem. 3 don't have a complaints procedure. You will not be dealt with by anyone based in Ireland but by Indians in Mumbai. They don't care at all and they won't settle for the €400 you are offering which I think is very fair given the circumstances. 

I would awaits 3's next move. They won't take you to court and they cannot damage your credit rating despite what NCO will tell you. Ignore any further contact from NCO. Only deal with 3 in writing and do not talk to them on the phone. Ask for someone in Ireland to deal with your issues.


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## ajapale (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

NCO appear to be a very creepy outfit. See [broken link removed] from the US.

Back to the substantive point. To me it appears that you incurred the debt by using the services and you should discharge your debt in full to 3.


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## vandriver (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Just checked 3's website and Brazil is €2.45 a minute to call back to Ireland and €2.00 to receive calls.At those prices it seems quite conceivable to run up a bill of €890 in 3 1/2 weeks


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## bond-007 (8 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Really the OP should have checked those rates prior to roaming in Brazil. If 3 are reasonable they should accept the OP's proposal to settle for €400 odd given the circumstances.


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## tallpaul (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



vandriver said:


> Just checked 3's website and Brazil is €2.45 a minute to call back to Ireland and €2.00 to receive calls.At those prices it seems quite conceivable to run up a bill of €890 in 3 1/2 weeks


 
By my calculation he made and/or received calls of around about 400 minutes over 3 1/2 weeks. This would seem to be excessive use in my book, particularly when on holiday. I would agree with previous poster in that the OP would seem to be liable for the charges...


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## blacknight (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



bond-007 said:


> Now 3 will be very unwilling to help resolve the problem. 3 don't have a complaints procedure. You will not be dealt with by anyone based in Ireland but by Indians in Mumbai. They don't care at all and they won't settle for the €400 you are offering which I think is very fair given the circumstances.


I thought all telcos operating in Ireland had to have some form of procedure?


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## bond-007 (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



blacknight said:


> I thought all telcos operating in Ireland had to have some form of procedure?


3 don't and Comreg do not care. This has been thrashed out to death with them.


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## odarallo (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Thanks for all the helpfull posts guys.

bond-007 you have been more than helpfull. The fact 3's website says you can receive texts is fine. But 1 week into my trip my service had been dropped and I called 3 to resolve the issue but they claimed it was a problem my end. Which it wasnt as I was connected to TIM network the one that supports 3's frequency. Hence having no other choice but to call my family as my sms service wasnt available.

How did you know it was NCO that were dealing with it, you hit the nail on the head with that. So they wont call around and I cant get bad credit rating over it?

Again thanks so much for your help


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## csirl (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Ask NCO for their Irish Financial Regulators license number and see what answer you get  Once the take on a personal financial debt, they become a credit institution. You could also ask them what legal authority they have to enforce collection given that the only people who can enforce collection in Ireland are Sherrifs who are public servants. 

On the bill, you did incur the charges, so you should pay upfront. But you have the ability to take 3 to small claims on the basis that you incurred extra costs due to their promised service being unavailable without warning. I would imagine that if anyone in 3s customer service had any sense, they would prefer to refund the amount for the extra calls you had to make on the basis that this would be much cheaper than going to small claims and losing (legal/admin/reputation costs).


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## so-crates (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



odarallo said:


> Hence having no other choice but to call my family as my sms service wasnt available.


 
And using a foreign mobile phone in Brazil was the only way you could contact your family? I find that a little hard to believe. I think you decided unilaterally you were justified in calling because you couldn't text (for whatever reason), you had no agreement with 3 for doing this. You really ought to pay what you owe, not what you think you do. You incurred the debt because you chose to, you had other options open if you had chosen to avail of them (e.g. emails, public telephones, international/local call cards etc) but you didn't. Righteous idignation is not a subsititute for rights.


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## odarallo (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

Mate i was in the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language hole of nowhere in Brazil (Rondonopilis), And sadly to say no my Brothers do not use email so what alternative am I left with but to call them. And seeming my texting service was gone.


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## sandrat (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

do they not have phones in brazil? Why did you need to ring home so often? were you on holiday? Isn't the point of a holiday getting away from it all. Surely you could have rang once to tell them your phone wasn't working and if they needed you urgently to text you / ring you. I'm assuming you could receive texts.


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## so-crates (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*

I'm not disputing that it was inconvenient to you but I think you aren't entitled to have things your own way in all of this. I stand by my contention, if you can manage to get a phone signal and call out then you can manage to do other things, there are always alternatives. Did you investigate any or did you just do as I suspect and decide unilaterally and without reference to 3 that you were entitled to call on the basis you couldn't text? Did you say to your brothers that you couldn't send and receive texts and arrange alternative modes of communication? Did you in short, try? I am not saying you are wrong to insist on some refund from them as you were discommoded by a promise of service you didn't receive. I am saying you are wrong to assert that you are entitled not to pay for the service you did receive.


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## bond-007 (9 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



csirl said:


> Ask NCO for their Irish Financial Regulators license number and see what answer you get  Once the take on a personal financial debt, they become a credit institution. You could also ask them what legal authority they have to enforce collection given that the only people who can enforce collection in Ireland are Sherrifs who are public servants.
> 
> On the bill, you did incur the charges, so you should pay upfront. But you have the ability to take 3 to small claims on the basis that you incurred extra costs due to their promised service being unavailable without warning. I would imagine that if anyone in 3s customer service had any sense, they would prefer to refund the amount for the extra calls you had to make on the basis that this would be much cheaper than going to small claims and losing (legal/admin/reputation costs).


NCO do not take over the debts, they try to collect on behalf of 3, so they are not a credit provider hence no need for a licence. NCO are basically hired muscle to try and make people pay up. They use letters, phone calls, and the famous postcard to try and frighten people into paying. At the end of the day they have no more legal authority than my cat to collect a debt. They are not a sheriff.


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## csirl (10 Jun 2008)

*Re: Three.ie: Disputed bill : After 2mo they have passed it on to English Debt Collec*



> They use letters, phone calls, and the famous postcard to try and frighten people into paying. At the end of the day they have no more legal authority than my cat to collect a debt. They are not a sheriff.


 
I've often wondered with these UK collection agencies operating in Ireland, but still basically using UK tactics except for being unable to enforce collection, if they are guilty of breaking the law. For example, if they frightened or misled someone into thinking that they have the power to seize goods and that person "voluntarily" pays up, are they guilty of obtaining goods under false pretences, fraud or even impersonating a Sherrif (which is almost as bad as impersonating a Garda)?

Luckily I've never had any personal dealings with one of these companies, so I'm curious to find out what exactly they say in their letters. I've a very low tolerance for people employing tactics that are contrary to the spirit of the Law.


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