# Reasonable living expenses - confused



## KrakityJones (7 Dec 2015)

Hi

I'm trying to calculate reasonable living expenses in my case. I'm married, no kids and have a car which I need for work, no other costs or special circumstances. Will likely be going bankrupt.

On the ISI site/calculator this suggests €2336 as the reasonable amount but is that for the total household income or just mine?

I'll round up for simplicity so I make €2500 per month, my wife make €1500 per month. We pay rent of €850 PM

From the calculator does this mean I get to "keep" €1473 to live on + say half the rent (€425 so total €1898)   and the rest (€602) goes out on a payment order, or is the total household income used in which case we get to "keep" €1473 (+rent so €2323 total)  and the rest (€1677) goes on the payment order - which would effectively mean all my wages are gone and we live off my wife's wages only.

I always though bankruptcy would apply to just me but the ISI table would suggest both our wages are used for calculation. If anyone knows I would hugely appreciate the clarification.

Thanks


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## Outsider (7 Dec 2015)

The €2336 you have calculated sounds like total living expenses. 
Your wife will be expected to contribute half towards this total and you will contribute the other half i.e. €1168. Anything you earn in excess of this will be taken for creditors.


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## Waver (7 Dec 2015)

The 2336 is total expenses for both of you including rent. If you split your costs 50:50 you do the same with the RLEs so you would have €1332 per month to contribute to your debts.


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## Silvio Dante (7 Dec 2015)

Ok, in example where the total expenses is €2,336 if bankrupt has €1000 income and non bankrupt spouse has €2500.
Is the bankrupt's full €1000k taken for creditors?


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## Outsider (7 Dec 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> Ok, in example where the total expenses is €2,336 if bankrupt has €1000 income and non bankrupt spouse has €2500.
> Is the bankrupt's full €1000k taken for creditors?


No.
In that scenario creditors get nothing.
(I'm assuming your wife is not liable to the bank)


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## Silvio Dante (7 Dec 2015)

Outsider said:


> No.
> In that scenario creditors get nothing.
> (I'm assuming your wife is not liable to the bank)



No, she's not.
Sorry to be pedantic but in the above example where our RLEs are €2336 I could earn up to €1158 per month irrespective of my wife's earnings?


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## Outsider (7 Dec 2015)

You can keep up to11*6*8 to put towards your living expenses. Anything you earn over that is taken. I'm not an authority on the subject but I'm 99% sure that's the case.


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## Silvio Dante (7 Dec 2015)

Outsider said:


> 11*6*8. I'm not an authority on the subject but I'm 99% sure that's the case.


Ha ha, 1168 indeed
Thanks, hope you're right


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## Outsider (7 Dec 2015)

That tenner buys a couple of happy meals!


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## Matthew Moore (8 Dec 2015)

KrakityJones said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to calculate reasonable living expenses in my case. I'm married, no kids and have a car which I need for work, no other costs or special circumstances. Will likely be going bankrupt.
> 
> ...



This is my understanding of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The form that is filled in outlining income asks what percentage of household income the bankrupt earns. Accordingly, the RLE's are split the same then.

In your example, 

*Total household Income* = €4000
_Your income @ €2500 is 62.5% of the total. _
*
Total RLE including rent *= €2336
*Your allowable RLE based on 62.5% of income* = €1460

*Total excess income available for IPA = €2500*(your income)* - €1460*(your 62.5% portion of RLE) = €1040

As this shows, from your €2500, you would be contributing €1460 to the running of the house and paying €1040 as an Income Payment Agreement.

Hope this helps


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## Matthew Moore (8 Dec 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> Ok, in example where the total expenses is €2,336 if bankrupt has €1000 income and non bankrupt spouse has €2500.
> Is the bankrupt's full €1000k taken for creditors?



Based on the above workings, your income is 28.6% of the total household income. 28.6% of RLE = €668

€1000(your income) - €668(your 28.6% portion of RLE) = €332(excess available for IPA)


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## Matthew Moore (8 Dec 2015)

I've posted the form on the bottom of the page that the Official Assignee send when assessing your income. [broken link removed]


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## KrakityJones (8 Dec 2015)

Matthew Moore said:


> This is my understanding of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> The form that is filled in outlining income asks what percentage of household income the bankrupt earns. Accordingly, the RLE's are split the same then.
> 
> ...



Hi Matthew (and everyone else who responded)

That makes sense, I had emailed the ISI as well but their response wasn't as clear as that. There goes my hope for plan A anyway which was to make an offer to the bank for a settlement instead of having to go bankrupt. I could possibly get 10K together as an offer but 1040 per month over 3 years would be closer to 40k. If I were the bank I know which one I'd go for. Bankruptcy looks ever more likely. Pain for 3 years (I hope - 1 year banktuptcy but a further 2 for payment order..or is that 1 year plus 3 years more I'm not sure) but at this stage I just need to start getting my life back on track.

Thanks for your help again, I suspect I'll become a regular poster here over the next while!


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## Silvio Dante (13 Dec 2015)

Grateful if someone here could answer following.

I've been about 6k per annum below on RLE for last two years.
A guy who has owed me money for nearly 5 years and I had pretty much written off (I included it in my SOA for OA but explained it wasn't legally enforceable) has said he can give me 5k before Christmas and hopefully 5k in early 2016 and a final 5k by about June.
I'd be pretty sure the 5k this year is no problem but can you backdate?
Can I set off 5k against my shortfall in 2014?


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## Stuboy (13 Dec 2015)

Silvio Dante said:


> Grateful if someone here could answer following.
> 
> I've been about 6k per annum below on RLE for last two years.
> A guy who has owed me money for nearly 5 years and I had pretty much written off (I included it in my SOA for OA but explained it wasn't legally enforceable) has said he can give me 5k before Christmas and hopefully 5k in early 2016 and a final 5k by about June.
> ...


Silvio. I think there is a lot of uncertainty about how the rle works. Is it assessed monthly or annually. In our case we had an income spike for one month and it was taken. But we are a few hundred under the rLe every month. If it's just on a given month as I've experienced with the OA then that 5 k will be taken from you as it puts you over for that month you receive the money.


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## Catastrophe (13 Dec 2015)

Stuboy said:


> Silvio. I think there is a lot of uncertainty about how the rle works. Is it assessed monthly or annually. In our case we had an income spike for one month and it was taken. But we are a few hundred under the rLe every month. If it's just on a given month as I've experienced with the OA then that 5 k will be taken from you as it puts you over for that month you receive the money.



I think you are right Stu. I have a similar situation and ISI said they would view that income as an asset.


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