# How to remove fireplace surround



## bogota400 (28 Aug 2008)

Need to install a solid fuel stove into existing fireplace in relatively new house.  Was going to get a plumber to sort it but seeing as he hasnt bothered to get back to me 6 weeks later - and the fact that funds are tight anyways - want to do it myself.

Just wondering if anyone has removed a fireplace surround before as I need to get the fireplace insert out?  I'm not sure as to where to start as regards prizing out the fireplace panels in case I damage them.

Anyone any ideas?


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## jab1 (28 Aug 2008)

they are normally secured too the wall with 4 screws and a bead of caulk along the edge,2 screws on each side,check the plaster along the edge there might be a small trace of where the screws were filled,just dig out the filler and un screw the screws ,then try and prise out the fireplace with a nail bar.hope that helps.


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## BarneyMc (29 Aug 2008)

With some fireplaces (mine included) there are strips of metal from the frame fixed *into* the surround. I tried to remove the frame but really couldn't without damaging the surrounding.

If there are screws as jab1 suggests then it may be a lot easier. If not then you might be better getting someone familiar with installing firreplaces to have a look.


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## NoviceDIY'er (30 Aug 2008)

I have no experience of this kind of thing and took out a fire surround recently with no bother - you think you are going to do alot of damage but you wont. Just need to find where the screws are which may take a little probing around and unscrew them (some fireplaces have 2 but most newer ones will have 4) and fire surround just comes out.

When you put in the stove, are you putting fire surround back in? 
if yes then you will just need to screw it back in and fill cracks and where screws are with filler or builders chaulk (about 5euro and comes in a tube like silicon)
if no, now this is the stage I'm at - how are you going to finish it off?. I was going to put up plaster board inside which hasnt a smooth finish and skim over it but dont know if it will crack etc with heat from stove. It will be about 6" from stove?, is plaster board fireproof etc ?

Best of luck !!


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## bogota400 (31 Aug 2008)

Thanks jab/barney/novice - have some time now so will try and find these screws.


NoviceDIY'er said:


> When you put in the stove, are you putting fire surround back in?


 The frame or surround is going back in but with a granite insert - cast iron inserts are not suitable for use with solid fuel stoves - if it wasnt for this, I would leave well enough alone!


NoviceDIY'er said:


> if yes then you will just need to screw it back in and fill cracks and where screws are with filler or builders chaulk (about 5euro and comes in a tube like silicon)


 Well, if I manage to get to that stage, that sounds straight forward enough. [broken link removed]  Have to replace insert and hack back into fireback, also remove this angular piece that comes out from fireback as its in the way of the pipe.  If I hack this all back, its going to look rough.  Do I just plaster using fire cement or what other way would leave it looking ok?
[QUOTE-NoviceDIY'er]if no, now this is the stage I'm at - how are you going to finish it off?. I was going to put up plaster board inside which hasnt a smooth finish and skim over it but dont know if it will crack etc with heat from stove. It will be about 6" from stove?, is plaster board fireproof etc ?[/quote] Don't have any answer for you there Novice but perhaps someone else can help?


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## p gilmartin (31 Aug 2008)

hi, jab1 is correct


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## bogota400 (1 Sep 2008)

I checked for visible signs of spots that had been filled but couldn't see any for sure.  Then used one of those stud/metal detectors - and it bleeped away at two identical points on each side - one near the base and one near the top.  [broken link removed] but have found nothing.  Shouldn't the screws be right there? Are they holding it in with a metal bracket?  Just want to double check before I start making a big job for myself..


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## Leo (1 Sep 2008)

How deep did you go in your exploratory dig?


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## p gilmartin (1 Sep 2008)

the brackets should be there. remove the screws from the wall first [no need to do same with surround]. the fire surround can then be removed, leaving the hearth on its own. lift up the hearth by using a hammer and chisel to loosen it. they are both heavy so you will need help. remember when you are putting in your stove , make sure you have plenty of ventilation in case of carbon monoxide. good luck


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## bogota400 (1 Sep 2008)

Leo said:


> How deep did you go in your exploratory dig?





			
				p gilmartin said:
			
		

> the brackets should be there. remove the screws from the wall first [no need to do same with surround].


Just a couple of mm short - was there - just didn't expect it to be that far back!
There still seems to be some some hold on it - could it be that theres still some screws over the mantelpiece board??  My aldi metal/stud detector seems to be indicating one on each end and one in the middle ie. i think theres screws there but would rather ask the silly question of whether this makes sense now than create unnecessary work.

<EDIT> _- There was just the one screw on the top holding it._ </EDIT>



			
				p gilmartin said:
			
		

> the fire surround can then be removed, leaving the hearth on its own. lift up the hearth by using a hammer and chisel to loosen it. they are both heavy so you will need help.


I'm a bit tight on space but was going to go with a small stove (stanley oisin) and hack back into fireback to fit it - this should allow me to leave existing hearth untouched...


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## bogota400 (1 Sep 2008)

Now have surround off and insert off. Next job is to hack back into fireback.  There is about 5inches of fireback jutting out (which is kind of shown here) - forward of the flue.  Can I simply hack this back?  Are there any implications in doing this?
Any other aspects I need to bear in mind before I get the chisel out??


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## p gilmartin (1 Sep 2008)

the mantle piece is normally cemented onto the surround and recessed into wall. if you want to leave the mantle/p there, then tap under the mantle/p with a wooden hammer. this should free it and you will able to remove the surround, leaving the mantle/p hanging there.


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## bogota400 (1 Sep 2008)

p gilmartin said:


> the mantle piece is normally cemented onto the surround and recessed into wall. if you want to leave the mantle/p there, then tap under the mantle/p with a wooden hammer. this should free it and you will able to remove the surround, leaving the mantle/p hanging there.


It was a timber surround/mantel - so it all came off together - just as well pleased with that.
What do you think about hacking back into fireback.  Should I chisel away?



Thanks everyone for the help so far


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## bogota400 (5 Sep 2008)

Thanks to _p gilmartin _going out of his way and giving me some very useful advice as regards how to get this sorted, I've made some good progress on this. Have fireback cleared out and will be working on it again next Monday.
Just wanted to post this as _p gilmartin _told me someone suggested to him via pm that he was touting for work. Can confirm that this couldnt be further from the truth.  Thanks for the help PG - might have a few more questions for you before I have this thing installed!


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## DavyJones (5 Sep 2008)

How far out of the hearth will the stove come?


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## bogota400 (5 Sep 2008)

DavyJones said:


> How far out of the hearth will the stove come?


 Can't give you a straight answer on that right now as not at home. But can tell you the following;
From back wall (now that I have torn out fireback) to front edge of hearth = 800mm. Depth of Stanley Oisin = 380mm. To meet building regs, I need 300mm clearance from the stove opening to edge of hearth. Hearth isnt that deep - I think its just 500mm....so it won't be that far out.

Is your question related to the disadvantage of having it recessed? I could extend the hearth - but thats going to involve more spend (cash is tight), carpet adjustment, etc. 
My plan is to get insulation in every side of it including the top if this is safe and feasible ie. in the conical concrete flue 'gather' that leads to the flue opening, pack rockwool in there around the pipe - and stick in a layer of fireproof plasterboard - with an opening left for flue pipe. Is this feasible/safe?

Other thing i'm confused about is the use of a regiser plate? Have read a bit about this but don't quite understand what the need is. If I purchase a short length of flue pipe, then attach a short length of flexible liner to it (will need to do this as the stoves top mounted flue opening isnt going to be directly above the chimneys flue opening ie. slightly off vertical), fixing the liner into the chimneys flue opening with a fire rated sealant.

Does this make any sense?


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## DavyJones (5 Sep 2008)

Depends on size of room. if it is a large room I would bring it out a bit. You can always connect into the back of the stove and use the blanking plate to cap of flue opening on top.
will the fexible flue liner be seen? besure and use flue liner suitable for solid fuel, as it burns hotter than oil/gas. I think the regiser plate finishes off the job nicely although they are not essential.


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## BillK (5 Sep 2008)

If you can't find the screws easily try using a magnet or one of those devices for locating wires, studs  etc.


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## bogota400 (6 Sep 2008)

BillK said:


> If you can't find the screws easily try using a magnet or one of those devices for locating wires, studs etc.


Thanks BillK - as you will see in the later posts on the thread, have gotten past original query on removing surround.  And yes - the stud/metal finder really took the hard work out of it - finally got a chance to use that aldi gadget that had been gathering dust for the last two years!



			
				DavyJones said:
			
		

> Depends on size of room. if it is a large room I would bring it out a bit. You can always connect into the back of the stove and use the blanking plate to cap of flue opening on top.
> will the fexible flue liner be seen? besure and use flue liner suitable for solid fuel, as it burns hotter than oil/gas. I think the regiser plate finishes off the job nicely although they are not essential.


The room is approx. 5.5x5.5m - so not that big.  In fact, it remains to be seen how often I will end up using the stove - as simply by its very installation, It will pay for itself as its minimising both downdraft (which can be a big problem some evenings here when wind blowing a certain direction) and airflow down to the bare minimum when its closed.
Thanks for the tip on the flexible liner - it will be very short and wont be seen.  
Is it easy to connect flexible liner to stove flue?  What is used to seal and secure this connection?
Only other concerns I have now is not having enough space to stick insulation beneath fireproof plasterboard which i will be screwing into back wall.  Don't suppose there is another fire resistant alternative to rockwool that is very thin?  Just about have enough space in terms of depth at the moment.
Lastly, I wonder would one of these Ecofans help in radiating heat outwards?  Anyone any experience?


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## DavyJones (6 Sep 2008)

One thing to remember about flues is, what ever size comes off the stove is the least size you must maintain for the whole of the flue lenght. E.G if its a 5inch flue you can put it in a six inch flue nine inch flue and so on. you can go bigger, never smaller.

If you slip the 5 " into 6" fexli, you can use sealent cord and/or heat resistant sealant. besure you have a few inchs overlap. you can also use both to seal any gaps in chimney if they are small. Both can be found at any plumbing merchants.


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## bogota400 (12 Sep 2008)

I have gotten to the stage where the complete fireback and supporting bricks have been cleared out. When I get back to it on monday, will be fitting gyproc fireline plasterboard to each of the two sides and the back - flush against chimney walls. The plan is to then skim over board and paint. Is there anything special required to join the side boards to the back plasterboard? Want to try and avoid a scenario where skim cracks along the join a couple of months down the road..

Also, with regard to the paint, will I get away with regular paint as have read somewhere that some people have used special paints that will deal better with the heat. (hoping regular paint will work as don't want the hassle of trying to match paints up or introducing yet anothe colour in the room).


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## Carpenter (7 Oct 2008)

I'm very interested in your thread bogota400, as I'm just starting a similar job myself.  I considered using plasterboard to line my fireplace recess but I've decided to uses a sand/ cement render and skim it instead- I'd be a little worried about the adverse effect that the heat would have on plasterboard (plasterboard is fire resistant but as you suggest, joints might crack).  Can I ask you, are you relining your flue? It's been suggested to me that I should to avoid problems with condensate and poor draw.  Also, how to you plan to clean your flue once the stove is installed and operating? I've been told it's either rod from the top down or fit a soot door (don't like that option).


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## bogota400 (8 Oct 2008)

Carpenter said:


> I considered using plasterboard to line my fireplace recess but I've decided to uses a sand/ cement render and skim it instead- I'd be a little worried about the adverse effect that the heat would have on plasterboard (plasterboard is fire resistant but as you suggest, joints might crack).


Have just collected a sheet of fireline so no going back now! The Oisin is the smallest stove around so should be alright.



Carpenter said:


> Can I ask you, are you relining your flue? It's been suggested to me that I should to avoid problems with condensate and poor draw.


 Thats the first I heard of it - and I have exactly same scenario as you ie. 8" chimney flue and 5" Oisin flue opening.
I did contact a company in england and they said they could make something up to suit if I sent them on a sketch (fluesystems.com). Having to install a liner all the way through would make it so much more expensive.  In fact, I might not have bothered if I thought this was required.



Carpenter said:


> Also, how to you plan to clean your flue once the stove is installed and operating? I've been told it's either rod from the top down or fit a soot door (don't like that option).


 Not 100% sure on this yet.  If it works out that I can get a straight pipe up - then I would probably be happy enough to do without the soot door.  If its not going to be straight (and i think it might have to have a slight change of angle) then as far as i'm aware, a soot door would be required.

Will know more once I get to that stage.  Approaching this at a snails pace - just have to get plasterboard up and skimmed first.


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## Carpenter (8 Oct 2008)

I contacted the merchant who sold me the stove and he's adamant that a flexible liner is not required, in his own words: "we sell hundreds of these and the flues are never lined, unless it's an old cottage...".  I'll go with this for the moment I think, I can always retrofit a liner down the road if the stove gives problems.  The cost of the liner would nearly amount to the cost of the stove (and that doesn't include labour).  I'm picking up some sand tomorrow for my render coat.


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## fmc (13 Oct 2008)

Hi lads just saw this thread and am in this field anyway. Chimneys generally dont need to be relined unless the liner or joint inside has broken down and you are experiancing smoke into other areas of the house. What is more important is the connection from 5" off the stove to your existing 8" liner ( the orange clay pot) you can buy an adapter that has a sloped edge allowing ash and soot to fall back down and not collect in the flue which could start a chomney fire years down the road. also try using fire cement rather than high temp sealant. lastly and sorry i didnt see the thread earlier buy a convecting insert stove instead. these recess into the opening leaving you with just a door looking out but need to be fitted into a sqauare granite insert rather than a cast iron insert so that they fit flush to the insert. Also bogota not sure if your original f/p was gas or solid fuel but the cast iron part should have had 2-3" of a lightweight mix on the back of it by rights.


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## bogota400 (14 Oct 2008)

fmc said:


> What is more important is the connection from 5" off the stove to your existing 8" liner ( the orange clay pot) you can buy an adapter that has a sloped edge allowing ash and soot to fall back down and not collect in the flue which could start a chomney fire years down the road.


Off the top of your head fmc, do you know who supplies these?



fmc said:


> Also bogota not sure if your original f/p was gas or solid fuel but the cast iron part should have had 2-3" of a lightweight mix on the back of it by rights.


 Its solid fuel.  And yes, there was some mix on the back of it when I took it off - but only a dab each side. I take it this is so that it doesnt get too hot?

I like the idea of using an insert stove as you suggested but too late for me as have already bought Stanley Óisin.  However, as cost is very much a factor, I'm just as well pleased. If I can manage to complete install myself (the diy novice that I am), I think I will have made a big improvement for small money.
From the outset, someone advised me that using cast iron insert in combination with solid fuel stove was a non starter and that I would have to replace with granite.  Whats your take on this? (The insert would only just clear the top of the stove IF I was to use it).


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## fmc (14 Oct 2008)

The adapter should be available from a stove shop we get ours from Mi flues they retail at about 90E inc vat. There should be no problem in theory using a cast insert as long as its sealed againest the wall and the top of the rear flue doesn't hit the insert from the back. The mix on the back should have been about 2.5" thick all round it but its less important if you are connecting the stove to chimney liner but if I was doing it for a customer we would still have it filled. Bear in mind there will be a lot of heat from the top of the stove hitting your wooden surround so keep an eye on it.
You will lose a certain amount of heat from having the stove recessed in any case, do you think it will be fully recessed or half in half out?
The stove can be cleaned from the top down ideally, any door in the flue may be too small to get a rod up. Also if you can remove the baffle plate inside the stove you may be able to access the flue that way if you are exiting the top of the stove. if you are exiting the rear of the stove ensure all flue pipe is well connected as a cleaning head/rod migh push it apart a bit.


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## NC6000 (14 Oct 2008)

bogota400, how are you getting with this?  I have thought of doing the same myself and having an electric fire built into the wall with no mantelpiece etc.  What are you doing with the fireplace hearth?

Can anyone tell me if these are easy to remove?


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## fmc (14 Oct 2008)

Nc usually pretty easy to remove just heavy electric fires usually are for effect only giving a max of 2 kw of heat ensure you block up the flue if going down this road so you dont continue losing heat up it.


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## jaysspot (15 Mar 2011)

I have installed a new fire and it is fine except that it just cuts out after a few hrs, then works again the next day

Any ideas?


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## Leo (15 Mar 2011)

jaysspot said:


> I have installed a new fire and it is fine except that it just cuts out after a few hrs, then works again the next day
> 
> Any ideas?


 
Please don't hijack threads, post this question as a new thread. You will get a better response that way.
Leo


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