# €50k to new ireland PRB advice please



## stoves1 (12 Jan 2013)

€50k to new ireland PRB advice
i am looking for advice as a previous employer has wound up their pension scheme which i was a member, but thankfully former employees like myself have been offered the full allocation rate to transfer to new ireland personal retirement bond with reduced charges/commmision.

i now need to choose a fund from new ireland to give the ok to transfer to,
details i am aged 51, working now in public service where it is intended i will get circa 85% of half salary on retirement at 60yrs.

personally i am not a very risk adverse person so would hope to take the benefits from this investment at 60, i would appreciate advice on thisplease


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## mercman (12 Jan 2013)

Very Interesting post !!

Its your money in a previous pension scheme so why not trawl the market to see where the best deal can be had. Why do you think they are offering 'reduced' charges ?? I have had some serious issues with New Ireland, and whilst not in Pension funds, the treatment of my Investments was an absolute disgrace. All this well documented on AAM and I will place one particular line from the FSOs finding if you so wish. Revert and I'll place it on this thread. Take it from me, please look elsewhere to keep your sanity. And this will be the best advice you will ever get.


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## dub_nerd (12 Jan 2013)

mercman, I too would be very grateful for any info on New Ireland and PRBs as I also have to make a decision on a closed pension fund. I know nothing at all about this area, and the only people offering me advice so far are vested interests from other pension companies.


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## leroy67 (12 Jan 2013)

If not risk adverse just choose one of their index trackers, buy and hold, If you are worried about risk look at something like the protected assets fund.

Mercman.

sometimes the administrators of the scheme negotiate lower charges depending on the amounts being transferred and number of members etc


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## mercman (12 Jan 2013)

leroy67 said:


> Mercman.
> 
> sometimes the administrators of the scheme negotiate lower charges depending on the amounts being transferred and number of members etc



As already stated, I was not involved with a Pension Plan with New Ireland, but had in writing, an offer of lower charges but could not simply get them.

I will never accede to the defence of this company.


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## mercman (12 Jan 2013)

You've asked so here it is. From the Financial Services Ombudsman's finding:

_*In acknowledgement of the seriousness of the above issues which could realistically lead to a breakdown in the important element of trust that should exist between parties to a contract and the part the company has played in that regard.*_


Now make your minds up !!


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## leroy67 (12 Jan 2013)

Mercman.

where in my post did I  place a defence of any company? OP asked a question which I answered and also attempted to explain as to how lower management charges and higher allocation rates may be obtained.

whilst I have empathy for your situation this is stoves1 thread not mercmans


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## LDFerguson (12 Jan 2013)

Before anyone makes a decision on where to transfer an existing fund, they should discuss the following with an advisor, in the context of their overall financial situation. Why is your overall financial situation important when all you want is advice on a pension product? Because your pension funds form part of the jigsaw that is your overall financial position. 

For example, if someone is over 50 and has a pension fund, but is paying massive interest on a credit card debt, there's an argument in favour of releasing the lump sum from the pension fund now to pay down the credit card debt and deferring the pension until later, if the pension scheme rules allow. That's just one random example, but it's an example of why advice on pensions should include reference to one's overall financial circumstances. 

Anyway, in relation to funds being held in a pension scheme that's being wound up, here are some things that should be considered. Not all of them will suit everyone, but they should be examined. 


If you're over 50, you can take early retirement now. The term "early retirement" in this context only refers to the pension scheme monies - it doesn't matter if you're still working in another job. Or you may be able to draw the lump sum from the pension scheme now and defer taking the rest of your benefits until later, depending on the rules and type of scheme it was.
If you have less than 15 years' service, you can transfer into a PRSA.
Or you can transfer into a Buy-Out Bond (a.k.a. PRB). There are pros and cons of PRSA vs Buy-Out Bond, mainly around when and how you can take your retirement benefits.
Whether you choose a PRSA or a Buy-Out Bond, it is important to choose an investment that suits your requirements. There are a huge range of pension funds and choices available out there. As a starting point you and your advisor need to work out your risk tolerance (what level of risk would you be comfortable with) and your risk capacity (what level of risk can you afford to take). After that, there are a wide range of funds to choose from, to suit all risk profiles, from low-risk cash funds, fixed and variable rate deposits, through bond funds, commodity funds, equity funds, property funds, absolute return funds, mixes of all these and more. It's also possible to set up self-directed Buy-Out Bonds and PRSAs that will allow you to choose your own shares, ETFs, deposits or even property to buy using your pension funds. Only some of these will be suitable for any given individual, but you can't make an informed decision until you know what the choices are.
Charges can vary from one product provider to the next and also from one Financial Broker to the next - they are not standardised. Make sure you are aware of what the charges are - both up-front and ongoing as they can have quite an impact on your fund over time. Ask for your advisor to explain the charges to you in Euros and cents and/or simple terms, not jargon. A good advisor is there to help you understand what you're investing in, not blind you with science and gobbledygook.
Liam D. Ferguson


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## mercman (12 Jan 2013)

leroy67 said:


> where in my post did I  place a defence of any company? OP asked a question which I answered and also attempted to explain as to how lower management charges and higher allocation rates may be obtained.
> 
> whilst I have empathy for your situation this is stoves1 thread not mercmans



And unlike you I'm not trying to take the thread over. I was offering the basis of an opinion from a very costly experience. And I never insinuated that you placed a defence of any company, please read the context of my post and remarks before you wish to take the moral ground. Stoves1 asked for an opinion and advice for which and I offered him both from first hand experience

On reading your original post again you have tried to offer investment advice which is somewhat out of order unless you are qualified to do so.


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## leroy67 (12 Jan 2013)

i now need to choose a fund from new ireland to give the ok to transfer to,



All I did was answer the question mercman


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## mercman (12 Jan 2013)

stoves1 said:


> I would appreciate advice on thisplease



And all I did was to offer the same. If I'm not allowed offer an honest and truthful opinion from experience well what's the point ?


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## stoves1 (16 Jan 2013)

many thanks for replies, would now if possible like advice with this circa €50k to a prb with new ireland, the deal from new ireland is, allocation rate 102.5%, mgt charges 0.75%, surrender penalties yrs 1-3 -5%, yr4-3%, yr5-2%, with no penalties after 5yrs, the new ireland funds i am interested in and they give me an option of a % to funds.
1. protected assets fund which has a mgt charge of an extra 0.25% this is listed as a medium risk fund.
2.new ireland lifestyle funds, iris retirement funds, consensus iris -low risk
3.cashfund/pension fund -low risk.

would like opinions pls


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## leroy67 (16 Jan 2013)

In my opinion allocation rate is fair considering you are receiving .75% amc.

Unlikely  the pension cash fund will generate enough of a return to cover amc and  Government Levy for the next 2 years,would need to generate 1.35% per  annum just to stand still (it may achieve this and may not) but is the  safest fund of all three

Protected Assets is backing equities  over the longer term with an implicit guarantee that the value of your  fund cannot fall by more than 10% in any calendar year. With 9 years  until your chosen retirement age 3 or 4 negative years may have an  adverse impact on your retirement plans. 

Consensus Iris - Low  Risk? this will depend on what percentage is in equities at present  considering that you are investing until age 60. The closer to  retirement age you get the fund automatically switches from riskier  assets into more secure assets to protect your fund from market falls  closer to retirement.Normally this happens from 10 years out, so with 9  years to go you could still be 70/75%  in equities reducing year on year  to more secure assets. Anything with a high equity content cannot in my  opinion be called low risk?

Ultimately you will make your own decision, If it was me I would invest across all 3

60% in Cash Fund
30% in Consensus Iris
10% in Protected Assets.

This  averts paying 1% amc on all your monies, protects 60% of your capital  within the cash fund and with the equity content gives you the  potential of growth on the other 40% of your fund via market exposure.
Equity exposure will reduce year on year with the Iris fund further minimising risk.

I  am not advising you what to do in anyway. just giving my  opinion in case others misconstrue my comments as investment advice.


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## Bronte (17 Jan 2013)

LDFerguson said:


> Before anyone makes a decision on where to transfer an existing fund, they should discuss the following with an advisor, in the context of their overall financial situation.


 
That's a great post LD but then you are in the business, but you also know your stuff.  

It should be added to the key post on pensions.


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## LDFerguson (17 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> That's a great post LD but then you are in the business, but you also know your stuff.
> 
> It should be added to the key post on pensions.


 
Thanks Bronte.  A pet gripe of mine is that on many larger pension schemes, the pension scheme consultants do not also offer financial advice.  So if an employee leaves a pension scheme or the scheme is being wound up, the employees receive little more than a letter detailing their options with a box to tick for their chosen option.  No help with an explanation of what each option actually means or pros and cons of each option in the context of their own personal financial situation.  While this may sound like a somewhat self-serving comment coming from me, I genuinely do believe that one-to-one advice should be readily available (at a cost to the employer), if not mandatory for people leaving pension schemes.  As you can see from the post, the options are varied and somewhat complicated and yet employees (who may have no financial background) are simply given a letter and told to make a decision about a sum of money (that can be five or six figures) - a decision which can have quite an impact on their future.


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## stoves1 (18 Jan 2013)

thanks for all your posts with info = replies etc, as ld ferguson and others have said this is a mine field field and ideally i would be very happy to put this lump sum into  something like the NTMA: State Savings: 10 Year National Solidarity Bond: 2nd Issue which would deliver circa 40% on my 50k lump sum at the end of period i wish to encash etc. but obviously cant as it is not a pension scheme.

i nearly have my mind made up and although leroy67 does not want to tell me what to do, his explanation of the various schemes within new ireland i am leaning towards the percentages in the 3 schemes as listed in leroys67 thread.

there is still something telling me that i should probably enquire as to how i can get 25% tax free out of the scheme now? because i have my doubts about giving away €50k now, as would rather it in my pocket now, 2 kids in university etc, and would live happily enough on public service pension at 60.


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## mercman (18 Jan 2013)

Stoves, it's your money and you, and only you must decide what to do with your money. But leave aside any dissagreement I have had with the said company and the only thing I would suggest and advise is to get every single thing in writing, as if you don't and a problem exists further down the line, it will then all be too late.

You have been warned and all I have done is offer the best opinion I could possibly offer, all which has derived from a company that chooses to act in a fraudulent manner.

The best of luck to you.


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## dub_nerd (18 Jan 2013)

Apologies for piggybacking on this thread again, but I am in a similar position to the OP, and understand practically nothing of the options on offer. Any advice on where I should go for advice, if you get my drift? So far my only pension "advice" is from vested interests looking for my business.


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## leroy67 (18 Jan 2013)

Dub Nerd,

LD ferguson is one of I'm sure a number of Financial Services Professionals on here and maybe would be worth having a conversation with. It frustrates me when I hear *"advice" is from vested interests looking for my business.*You may pay a fee if it makes you feel that the advice you have received is truly independent however in my opinion they're are many ethical brokers who give equally as good advice and fight for the best deal for you and receive payment via commission from the product provider. The one caveat I would have is deal with a multi-agency intermediary as they can give broad based advice and never take what your own bank or tied agents may be offering you as typically they are only offering their employers products.


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## leroy67 (18 Jan 2013)

Stoves1

Once in retirement bond you as you are over 50 you can access up to 1.5 times final salary depending on years of service (20 years service entitles you to 1.5 times final salary as a tax free lump sum) as long as there are no restrictions within the scheme such as you can't access benefits before age 55 or 60 etc. If this is the way you wish to go make 100% sure that there is no early exit penalties attaching to the retirement bond should you access benefits within the first 5 years. Really you should sit down with an advisor and discuss your options, it might cost you a few quid but will be worthwhile for the certainty it will provide you with.


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## dub_nerd (20 Jan 2013)

Thanks leroy67


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## stoves1 (23 Jan 2013)

ok, is there any recomended advisor that i can meet, to discuss my options please.


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## stoves1 (23 Jan 2013)

meant to say i am living in dublin, many thanks


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## leroy67 (23 Jan 2013)

Stoves1

LD Ferguson is quite active on here and is in Dublin so he may be worth a call www.ferga.com. Other than that chat with some friends or family and see whom they would recommend.


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## stoves1 (25 Jan 2013)

right need to make decision called ferga.com. left 2 messages as well as emailed,
awaiting call, looked up a few pension companys websites and am looking at putting the 50k into a circa 5yr term deposit account, would appreciate help with names and interest rates here pls - standard life is 5years 3 months 20.74% ie 3.95%aer according to their website:

this looks pretty good again contacted them this morning, all at meetings and will call back either today or monday ( celtic tiger seems still to be alive ) seems little interest.


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## leroy67 (25 Jan 2013)

Hi Stoves,

that's 3.95% gross and you will have to hold out a sum of your monies in what is called a policy cash account to meet the 1% annual management charge and 0.6% govt levy.

Aviva doing 4.85% at the moment for 5 years and 2 months but will close quickly, pm me if you want more details


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## Dave Vanian (25 Jan 2013)

leroy67 said:


> Aviva doing 4.85% at the moment for 5 years and 2 months but will close quickly, pm me if you want more details


 
You were right - it did close quickly - closed this afternoon due to demand.


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## leroy67 (25 Jan 2013)

Yep,


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## stoves1 (26 Jan 2013)

hi leroy 67 trying to pm you but pm does not seem to work like i use boards, many thanks for your info on aviva, but as dave vanian says closed, would be very interested if there is anything decent rate out there, want to sort this out before fri as they are putting pressure on me to transfer, and i am afraid the amount i have been offered falls


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## leroy67 (26 Jan 2013)

Hi Stoves1

tried sending you a pm but you're not set up to receive them, will check out whats available on Monday and post here for you


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## stoves1 (27 Jan 2013)

many thanks leroy 67, regards stoves1


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## leroy67 (28 Jan 2013)

Stoves1,

3.95% can be got through Irish Life and Standard Life still but this could close quickly


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## stoves1 (28 Jan 2013)

Many thanks leroy 67 I am meeting financial advisor tomorrow and will make decisions after


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