# Money lost in Express Lodgements



## Wiggles (30 Jun 2005)

I am wondering if anyone can help me with this issue. My mother pays for her credit card at her branch each month. A few months back she was told that the bank will no longer take cash lodgements at the tellers desk and they all need to be done with the express lodgement system. Last month my mother put €400 cash into the express lodgement and the bank has LOST it!!

When she highlighted this to the bank they told her they cannot locate it and there is nothing they can do. 

Is there anything that can be done? This seems like a farce! The only receipt she has is the one you create yourself when putting in the lodgement. I know it is probably not a good idea to put cash into the Express Lodgement, but if they won't take it at the teller what the hell do you do!! 

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## elcato (30 Jun 2005)

By all means ensue this and dont pay it. Threaten AIB with getting on to IFSRA and in fact get on to them. I have put cash in express lodgements before and had no problem so your mother was quite entitled to feel she could lodge this way. Have you spoken to the manager ? The receipt she has is enough validation for them to chase this up but under no circumstances give it to the bank, just give them a copy.
Good luck


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## tonka (30 Jun 2005)

elcato said:
			
		

> The receipt she has is enough validation for them to chase this up but under no circumstances give it to the bank, just give them a copy.
> Good luck


Very so,it may 'disappear' during an 'investigation' . IFSRA will probably need t if the branch continue to obfuscate ! Tell yer ma to pay online like many of us do nowadays.


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## Wiggles (30 Jun 2005)

Thanks fot the replies. I think the bank manager is the first person to conatct. 

I have told my mother to in future not lodge cash instead lodge cheques. At least they can be cancelled.


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## Vanilla (30 Jun 2005)

You can also go to the ombudsman for credit institutions, according to a leaflet I saw today in BoI while queuing.


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## soc (30 Jun 2005)

Does the bank not have one of them EXPRESS LODGEMENT machines that spit out a receipt of amount lodged?

-soc


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## SineWave (30 Jun 2005)

Express lodgement for cash is a complete joke.
They are saving on teller costs.

The receipt means nothing, and should not even be issued, as it gives a false sense of security.

Basically, I can lodge an imaginary envelope of thin air and get a receipt for €345 and then return to the bank and ask why it wasn't accounted for, and be in your mothers position.

We must then consider what happens with the express lodgements at the end of each day. Could it be a weak link in the cash accountability  transfer accountability chain?


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## Wiggles (30 Jun 2005)

My gut feeling is that someone in the branch pocketed the money knowing that there is no way to trace the cash.

I for one will never use them for cash!! I think if the teller refuses to take it at the desk look for a manager. Cash into express lodgements seems way to dangerous.


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## MugsGame (30 Jun 2005)

I would never quick-lodge cash, partly because of a cheque AIB lost when I lodged it in an ATM. 

Where did your mother get the cash? Has she some proof that she received it? Can she document the pattern of regular cash lodgements to her credit card? This will help her establish credibility. Document everything and get on to her bank manager. Keep any original documentation - submit copies if requested. Get the bank to put in writing their refusal to progress this. Suggest that you need this for your theft report to the Gardaí.

Do you or your mother have other business with the bank (mortgages, loans, deposits) ? Mention these with the implicit threat that you will move if this isn't sorted.


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## Wiggles (30 Jun 2005)

Many thanks for the info. I will keep everyone posted as this progresses.



Just a side note. At no time did I mention which bank caused the problem, but a few posters assumed it was AIB. I think this says it all with regards to how much people trust AIB............ The bank in question was BOI.


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## MugsGame (30 Jun 2005)

Well I assumed it was AIB because others did and you didn't correct them. Though the phrase "express lodge" and not "quick lodge" did make me wonder if I might be maligning them unfairly! Good luck sorting this out.


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## daltonr (30 Jun 2005)

> My gut feeling is that someone in the branch pocketed the money knowing that there is no way to trace the cash.


 
I was in Bank of Scotland a few weeks ago and their Quick Lodge/Express Lodge thing is basically a mail box.  There are envelopes provided and dockets with Carbon Copy.

What was interesting was that on the envelope it mentioned that the envelope would be opened in the presence of TWO members of staff.   That seems like a simple and sensible solution to the theft theory.   Ask the manager if that's his branches way of doing things, and if not do they have a record of who opens the envelopes on a given day.

Unless I'm forced to I never use Quick Lodge.   I know for a fact that if the money got lost and the bank said they could do nothing, I'd end up getting arrested for the scene I'd cause.  I'd rather 20 minutes in a queue than a week in Jail.

-Rd


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## Joe1234 (30 Jun 2005)

Mrs Joe1234 used to use the quick lodge facility in AIB.  I was totally against it ever since the day I was at the customer services desk, waiting on someone, and the back of the quick lodge machine was lying wide open.  There was ample opportunity for someone to get behind the counter and grab some of the contents.

AFAIK, the bank is not responsible for your lodgements until they are verified by staff, i.e if the quick lodge machine is robbed, the bank is not liable.


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## SineWave (30 Jun 2005)

I would imagine that the 2 members of staff being present would be the most secure scenario, but my gut feeling is that "express lodgement" systems are designed to be of as much benefit to the bank as the customer. In this age of time-and-motion being critical, I wonder is the 2 member policy adhered to?


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## z102 (30 Jun 2005)

Change the bank.


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## RainyDay (30 Jun 2005)

Are the bank saying that the envelope went missing? Or that the envelope was opened but found to be empty? I had heard about the 2-person policy in the past. Isn't it common practices in many businesses to have 2 people working together to open the post to avoid any pilfering.


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## CCOVICH (30 Jun 2005)

I am not sticking up for the bank in this case, but I would tend to advise against putting cash in the quicklodge/express lodgement facility.  If you need to pay bills, and can't do it online or over the phone, a chequebook would seem to be the safest method of payment.


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## soc (30 Jun 2005)

Wiggles said:
			
		

> A few months back she was told that the bank will no longer take cash lodgements at the tellers desk and they all need to be done with the express lodgement system.



I bank with BOI and I always lodge cash over the counter.  Have never done it any other way.  Is it only credit card payments that they have stopped taking cash for?  AFAIK, BOI hasn't brought in any policies refusing to take cash lodgements.  Did this situation happen in a Dublin branch?

-soc


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## Guest127 (30 Jun 2005)

i was in an aib bank today and the customer behind me had already been turned away by the cashier earlier. she had a vhi bank girl and the cashier told her to go the post office with it. apparantly went to the po and was informed that aib lodgements and withdrawals can be made there and also payment to aib credit cards but not vhi bank giro. said that the post office official had said that aib were sending everyone with bank business to them regardless if they did it or not. i suspect that most people thought it was aib for this reason too. i lodge with boi and they have informed me in my local branch NEVER to put cash into the express lodgement box. said it was for cheque lodgements only.


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## Wiggles (1 Jul 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> Are the bank saying that the envelope went missing? Or that the envelope was opened but found to be empty?.



The lodgement is missing, not empty.



			
				soc said:
			
		

> I bank with BOI and I always lodge cash over the counter.  Have never done it any other way.  Is it only credit card payments that they have stopped taking cash for?  AFAIK, BOI hasn't brought in any policies refusing to take cash lodgements.  Did this situation happen in a Dublin branch?
> 
> -soc



Not 100% sure if it is only CC payments but I imagine not. My mother was told at the bank in Dublin that payments like this should be done through express lodgements.



			
				CCOVICH said:
			
		

> I am not sticking up for the bank in this case, but I would tend to advise against putting cash in the quicklodge/express lodgement facility.  If you need to pay bills, and can't do it online or over the phone, a chequebook would seem to be the safest method of payment.



I fully agree and would never do it myself. But like many people my mother had her way of doing things and it had worked in the past so she saw no reason to change. Believe me, I had an argument with her because she still wants to use the express lodgements. Lukily today she demanded to use the teller.


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## Wiggles (1 Jul 2005)

cuchulainn said:
			
		

> i lodge with boi and they have informed me in my local branch NEVER to put cash into the express lodgement box. said it was for cheque lodgements only.



I guess not all branches are the same..................


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## Joe1234 (1 Jul 2005)

The express lodgement envelope at my local boi branch actually states that you can lodge cash (notes only) up to a maximum of €1,000.


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## bond-007 (1 Jul 2005)

Joe1234 said:
			
		

> The express lodgement envelope at my local boi branch actually states that you can lodge cash (notes only) up to a maximum of €1,000.


 Complete folly to lodge cash in that manner.


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## elcato (1 Jul 2005)

Getting back to the point here, I was responsible for assuming (and therefor making others assume) that the bank in question was AIB - apoligies. You need to get to your bank manager and indeed accompany your mother in this meeting. I'm sure your mother is very capable but two people will show the manager that you are very concerned. Make sure you mention (as stated by previous poster) that you will be reporting this 'theft' to the police and perhaps mentioning going to media sources to 'warn' others of this practice. Bring a notepad and pen to the meeting and jot down all correspondance even going to the extreme of asking the bank manager to spell 'responsibilty' when he states they cannot accept it. That should shake him up nicely.


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## Marion (1 Jul 2005)

There must be video evidence - I'd be surprised if the bank doesn't have this. 

Marion


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## bond-007 (1 Jul 2005)

Marion said:
			
		

> There must be video evidence - I'd be surprised if the bank doesn't have this.
> 
> Marion


 Convenintely wiped by now I reckon.


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## Marion (1 Jul 2005)

Video evidence is worth mentioning though when wiggles and mother go and talk to the manager. It is unlikely that somebody who was trying to pull a fast one would seek to get video evidence from the bank.


Marion


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## MugsGame (1 Jul 2005)

I think RainyDay's point is important. You need to establish the bank's version of events. Do they dispute receiving the envelope, or are they saying it was empty? Try to get this in writing.

I wouldn't mention the media on the first attempt - you don't want it to seem like a shakedown. I think you should report it to the police regardless. They may be able to get video evidence showing your mother using the express lodge facility, and possibly more.


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## Wiggles (1 Jul 2005)

MugsGame said:
			
		

> I think RainyDay's point is important. You need to establish the bank's version of events. Do they dispute receiving the envelope, or are they saying it was empty?



They are basically disputing receiving it.

I think my POA from reading all your excellent posts is to approach the manager. Get him to idenify the banks postion on the policy of people being told to use express lodgements and what the banks line is on what can be done about the missing money. Inform him that the Gardai and IFSRA will be contacted of the theft if immediate resolution is not given.

The video evidence is a good one as well and I would love to know how there lodgements are opened by the staff.

I will update the tread once I know more.


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## Lorrie (1 Jul 2005)

My mother lodged cash into Express Lodgement some time ago - about 160 euro - for brother in college. Then he rang and told her there was only 100 in his account. She went into the bank (BOI) and explained. Apparently they maintained that only 100 was in the envelope - my mother argued the case and the Bank refunded the missing 60 - no explanation was given. Although don't banks have a special fund for missing money like this such as ATM Scams - money usually refunded...


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## RainyDay (1 Jul 2005)

elcato said:
			
		

> even going to the extreme of asking the bank manager to spell 'responsibilty' when he states they cannot accept it. That should shake him up nicely.


I love it - I must use that one sometime soon.


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