# Management company responsibility



## FonaFona (13 Jul 2016)

I live in an apartment complex. 
I want to get sky BB and need a working phone line.
SKY and EIR have confirmed that the phone line works within the apartment. They have also both confirmed that there is fire damage to the cable leading from the apartment to the comms room.

EIR have declared definitely that they are not responsible to fix it as it lies within the complex.

Management company are saying they won't fix it as my apartment is the only one with the problem and it is therefore NOT a communal issue and is not the responsibility of the management company.

Is this a correct statement from the management company?


----------



## Joe_90 (13 Jul 2016)

Where is the problem and where was the fire?

Is it in the apartment where there was a fire? 
 Is it outside the apartment where there was a fire?
Is it outside the apartment as a result of a fire in the apartment.

If it's outside the apartment then there's not much you can do without the consent of the Mgt Co but I think it will depend on the location and reason for the fire.


----------



## FonaFona (13 Jul 2016)

There was a fire in the comms room 5 years ago. (Comms room is in the underground car park). They fixed anything people complained about. Now that I want to use a fixed phone line this issue has manifested itself now. 

So to be clear, problem outside the apartment but inside the complex. Question posed is :can the management company say they are not responsible just because only one apartment says they have a problem that is emanating from a communal area.


----------



## jdwex (13 Jul 2016)

Who do the OMC think should fix it?
You could ask for advice from comreg. openeir will only do as far as the comms room.

How far is the run from the comms room. It might be possible to use the existing cable to pull new cable from the comms room to your apartment. If you are getting nga/vdsl openeir/knn/sky will install a new faceplate in your apartment anyway.


----------



## odyssey06 (14 Jul 2016)

The one apartment argument is spurious. If there was a structural issue with the roof of building affecting one top floor apartment, it would be a management company responsibility to fix. 
If there was a leak in the common piping flooding one apartment, it would be a management company responsibility to fix.
They are responsible for common areas. Full stop. The number of apartments affected by the common area issue is irrelevent.


----------



## Leo (14 Jul 2016)

Agree with the above, you need to force your OMC to fix this. The only one apartment affected argument doesn't stand up.

Don't bother with comreg, this is private equipment so not in their scope.


----------



## FonaFona (14 Jul 2016)

Thanks everyone - will pursue it further with the MC. If further developments occur I'll post.


----------



## lantus (18 Jul 2016)

That statement by the omc is untrue op.

The omc has a duty of care to provide services to all units as outlined in the contract lease.

A shared area like a comms room is the omcs responsibility and if they failed to adequetly repair and test all phone lines after a fire then that is their fault.

Keep pushing to get it repaired. You have an absolute right to your phone line.

The argument of just one unit affected is rubbish. Lots of issues affect just one unit. Leaking balcony or roof. 

Also a comms room is not a communal area in the sense everyone can just wonder in. Its a common area with shared equipment that the omc has a responsibility to maintain.


----------



## FonaFona (20 Jul 2016)

This is the latest reply: note what they put in bold and underlined.


“the Internal Common Areas” means all parts of the Block(s) not demised or intended to be demised by the Leases of the Apartments and Duplexes which without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing shall include all entrance lobbies, steps, halls, staircases, passages, walkways, landings, lifts, balconies, terraces, courtyards (if any), Roof Garden (if any) the structure, the external structure, walls, floors, ceilings and storage areas and other parts of the Block(s) on the Estate external to any particular Unit but used in common by the Owners and Occupiers of any two or more Units or exclusively by any one Unit Owner.


(14)  “the External Common Areas” means all parts of the Estate not covered by Block(s) and Townhouses (which without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing shall include roads, footpaths, kerbs, steps, passageways, walkways, access ways, courtyards, gardens, landscaped areas, grass margins, boundary walls, fences, entrance gates and The Carpark) PROVIDED that the Lessor shall prior to completion of the Management Company Agreement be at liberty to vary the nature location lay-out and extent of the External Common Areas and in the event of the Lessor varying the External Common Areas as aforesaid this Lease shall relate to the External Common Areas as so varied;


(15)  “the Common Areas” means :-


(i)  Collectively the Internal Common Areas and the External Common Areas.

(ii)  All channels, conduits, pipes, drains, water courses, ditches, gutters, sewers, wires, mains, cables and lighting installations and such like now in, on under or over the Estate *not used solely for the purpose of any one Unit in any Building. *


----------



## jdwex (20 Jul 2016)

Have they any suggestion on how the work can be completed? Will they give you access  to the comms room? Are they saying that there is one un-shared duct between your apartment and the comms room? 
Is this a reply from the agent or from the directors.


----------



## Leo (20 Jul 2016)

Agreed, go with jdwex's suggestion and request access and permission to do whatever digging is required to fix what they're insisting is your responsibility.


----------



## Andy836 (20 Jul 2016)

Not to remove responsibility from the management company but is this simply not a case of SKY pushing/pulling through a cable? i.e. it shouldn't cost much more than the cable itself?

When we got Sky into an apartment they'd run cables themselves from the roof to the unit. They didn't charge us anything - why would they, they were about to get a new long term customer.


----------



## jdwex (20 Jul 2016)

The OP is looking for Broadband (a phone line), not a connection to a satellite dish. 
Sky don't get involved in any new phone line installation if they can help it.


----------



## Andy836 (20 Jul 2016)

jdwex said:


> The OP is looking for Broadband (a phone line), not a connection to a satellite dish.
> Sky don't get involved in any new phone line installation if they can help it.



But it's the same principal - you pull a cable through a conduit. Can't take longer than 20 minutes and shouldn't cost more than the price of the cable.


----------



## Leo (20 Jul 2016)

Andy836 said:


> But it's the same principal - you pull a cable through a conduit. Can't take longer than 20 minutes and shouldn't cost more than the price of the cable.



Any how do they get access to the comms room? Do you know there's conduit all the way to the back of the socket in the OP's apartment? And this conduit wasn't damaged in any way in the fire?

Even if there is conduit in place, pulling a cable isn't always as easy as it sounds depending on the radius of all curves along the way, number of other cables present, and a lot of other factors. Telcos generally don't do this work because they need to access shared infrastructure to complete the job, and the apartment owner is rarely, if ever in a position to grant them permission to do that.


----------



## Andy836 (20 Jul 2016)

Leo said:


> Any how do they get access to the comms room? Do you know there's conduit all the way to the back of the socket in the OP's apartment? And this conduit wasn't damaged in any way in the fire?
> 
> Even if there is conduit in place, pulling a cable isn't always as easy as it sounds depending on the radius of all curves along the way, number of other cables present, and a lot of other factors. Telcos generally don't do this work because they need to access shared infrastructure to complete the job, and the apartment owner is rarely, if ever in a position to grant them permission to do that.



How do they get access to the comms room? I presume they would use a key if the door is locked. If not maybe a tank or a karate kick.......... I'd start with asking the mgmt company for the key though. 

From there maybe OP/EIR/an electrician can figure out if they can just pull the cable. Given the fire was in the comms room it is unlikely to have affected any channels or routes outside the comms room.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## lantus (20 Jul 2016)

The section of lease quoted from memory comes from the very beginning which just outlines general legal definitions. There are many more pages after that! I recall an entire section on services.

Request a generic copy of the lease in its entirety. 

You still have a right to phone line. The equipment in there is paid for by the omc. Which is funded by the members. If the omc repaired the damage after the fire then they have admitted responsibility. Presumably they used company funds or the block insurance. Otherwise each member would of been invited in to repair its own phone line at their own cost.

So your service fees subsidised everyone else's phone line bring repaired.

If the omc insist they are not responsible then they must give you access to make repairs yourself. 

I would still maintain that the omc is fully responsible. What if one button on a lift broke and it served only one unit. Could the omc say tough?

So its either repair or full access. But they must do one.


----------



## FonaFona (21 Jul 2016)

Could I request that a fresh claim is made on the block insurance?

In the meantime, I am calling in an electrician to fix it at my own cost. Hoping that this doesn't bite me in the long run where they say that it will always be my responsibility as they were not involved in the fix.


----------



## Leo (22 Jul 2016)

Andy836 said:


> How do they get access to the comms room? I presume they would use a key if the door is locked. If not maybe a tank or a karate kick.......... I'd start with asking the mgmt company for the key though.



Really a key? Super helpful. My point was one of permission, OMC's aren't in the business of giving out keys to these facilities, they generally only allow contractors they have hired to get access.


----------



## jdwex (27 Jul 2016)

You may be in luck, new SI today to help roll out of Broadband.
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/com...tatutory-instrument-remove-barriers-broadband


> The new statutory instrument obliges utility providers of services like telecoms, electricity, gas, transport and waste water to share information about their infrastructure with providers of high-speed broadband infrastructures.
> 
> *It allows telcos to service ducts in apartment complexes and housing estates.*


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.155.01.0001.01.ENG

and

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/communications/Lists/Legislations Documents/SI No. 391 of 2016.pdf


----------

