# Car Crushed by Management Company while on Vacation



## ELG (29 Nov 2014)

Hi everyone,

I am an apartment owner and my apartment came with a private car parking space. However I ride a motorcycle almost all year round, motorcycle parking is free in the apartment complex. I do own a car, registered in my name and parked in one of the designated private spaces. However as the car is never used it was not insured, taxed nor did it have a current NCT. 

I recently returned from vacation after spending 3 weeks abroad to find that my car had been towed at the request of the Management Company for being illegally parked. Despite all apartment owners having to give details of the car, make, model, colour and reg to the Managment company. So they should have had all my details on file. 

After finally getting in touch with the towing company earlier today (Friday) they informed me the car was crushed.

Immediately I tried calling my Management Company but their office had closed for the day and is not open until Monday 9am.

Can anyone tell me where I might stand regarding this situation? As we are coming into the really cold mornings it's almost time to ditch the two wheels in favour of four which was my plan to get the car NCT'd and back on the road in December. 

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## markpb (29 Nov 2014)

I'd imagine the OMC will come to some settlement with you for the value of your car but there's somethigh missing from your post. You say the car was parked properly, they say it was illegally parked - which is it?


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## Time (29 Nov 2014)

You really need to take legal advice before going any further. There are a number of legal issues that need to be explored.


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## ELG (29 Nov 2014)

Thanks for the replies. 

Regarding the car being illegally parked, that's what the management company told the towing company. The car wasn't illegally parked but I have a feeling from the look/state of the car, it wasn't washed in over a year plus it had two flat tyres, they probably thought it was abandoned. 

Regarding legal advice, what type of advice should I be looking for?


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## djh (29 Nov 2014)

Get straight down to the Garda station and report it as an Unauthorised Taking (UT). Your car was taken without your permission from where you left it, that is a crime.


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## Time (29 Nov 2014)

Legal advice would revolve around unlawful taking and disposal. Both criminal and civil matters. A solicitor would in the best position to advise what form any complaint to the Gardaí should take. 



> they probably thought it was abandoned.


There are procedures they must follow, it is obvious they haven't.


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## ELG (29 Nov 2014)

That's good advice. Thanks everyone. I'll get down to my local garda station tomorrow and report it as a Unlawful Taking and take it from there. Very much appreciated. Thanks again.


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## JohnJay (30 Nov 2014)

there may be a clause in your contract with the management company that any cars parked in the car park must be insured. From their point of view, if a car caught fire in a communal car park and set fire to others, they don't want to be liable. 

I know its different, but I have a parking permit with Dublin City Council. I have to produce an insurance cert every year in order to get a permit.


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## ELG (30 Nov 2014)

I never thought of that JohnJay. Good point.


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## peteb (30 Nov 2014)

You say it was a designated spot.  but was it your designated spot? Or a designated visitor spot?


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## lantus (30 Nov 2014)

are you fully up to date with your service fees? in other words fully contractually compliant?

Not sure how an OMC would be responsible for cars as even if a fully insured car were to catch fire damage to other cars would be covered by those individual policies and damage to the building would be claimed from the block insurance policy. So you wouldn't be claiming from the car who caught fire anyway? Unless you could prove that it was the drivers fault.

Certainly you would expect a fairly rigorous process of notification and advice on what the OMC was considering doing and the legal clauses that back them up in this regard. Get a copy of your contract lease and read it carefully.

On the flip side I would imagine a car like this which I will 'assume' had passed its best had there a long time was doing everyone's nut in parked in the car park and the questions to be asked is why were you keeping a piece of junk? If you don't want a car just get rid of it. You have plenty of money for a three week vacation which most people including myself could only dream of as keeping fuel in the car is a priority.

Anyway, hardly a huge loss as its value was potentially minimal. What do you want from this situation? Subject to garda and legal advice you may have a claim. Again, if you have plenty of money to launch a court case why are you not just looking after your car?

Not picking but its important to be plain and blunt.


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## Time (30 Nov 2014)

Brilliant! So now a person cannot keep an old car in a proper parking space?

What a person spends their hard earned money is of no concern to the OMC or other people.


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## Boyd (30 Nov 2014)

lantus said:


> are you fully up to date with your service fees? in other words fully contractually compliant?
> 
> Not sure how an OMC would be responsible for cars as even if a fully insured car were to catch fire damage to other cars would be covered by those individual policies and damage to the building would be claimed from the block insurance policy. So you wouldn't be claiming from the car who caught fire anyway? Unless you could prove that it was the drivers fault.
> 
> ...



Plain and blunt?! Your post is so self righteous....whining on about dreaming about a vacation and struggling to keep fuel in your car. Spare us, as it has nothing to do with the question.

 The OP's car was basically stolen and scrapped, i'd say (s)he wants the value of their car back! I would get straight to the Gardai as others have said. Ensure you have proof of ownership and a copy of the destruction cert if possible


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## lantus (30 Nov 2014)

well I have outlined both sides. Given the OP's assertion that the OMC had his details it is difficult to see any situation where correspondence was not delivered to the unit owner regarding this situation given how serious vehicle removal is. I suspect that there is an untold element to this story and as we all know only the people involved have all the information so there is little point in guessing. As per times comment it is 'odd' that an OMC would undertake such activities.

Certainly no one wants to see anyone's property removed without good cause but there may of been a correct and fully legal process undertaken in full accordance with the contract lease. And there may not of been....

The simple answer is that the OP should seek legal advice and contact his OMC at the earliest opportunity. If the development has parking permits and one has been issued it will be very hard for the OMC to argue they did not know about this vehicle. The OP should consult his contract lease immediately and see what it says and his solicitor will also be able to advise on this matter as they can be challenging to read.


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## Boyd (30 Nov 2014)

Much more sensible answer!


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## ELG (1 Dec 2014)

lantus said:


> are you fully up to date with your service fees? in other words fully contractually compliant?
> 
> Not sure how an OMC would be responsible for cars as even if a fully insured car were to catch fire damage to other cars would be covered by those individual policies and damage to the building would be claimed from the block insurance policy. So you wouldn't be claiming from the car who caught fire anyway? Unless you could prove that it was the drivers fault.
> 
> ...



Firstly I clearly outline in my original post I'm a biker, I use my bike in all weather conditions. Mainly because I can't afford Tax and Petrol to keep a car running all year long. But in the winter months I go back to 4 wheels for my own safety. The car in question hasn't been used since last January. A good service and it's as good as new. It has plenty of life left in it. 

Secondly, I also can't afford a 3 week vacation. I bloody wish. My girlfriend is a nurse overseas and as I won't see her over Christnas and New Years she invited me over to stay with her. All it cost was a cheap flight. 

Which brings me to my last point. I definitely can't afford to take a legal case or bring the management company to court. I'm hoping they will admit there was no communication and using the details they have on file come up with an agreed value. I can't afford to replace the car so close to Christmas so could potentially be out of pocket if I miss work due to no transport. (I work nights so don't have the ability to take public transport and a taxi would defeat the purpose in going to work at all. ) Most roads aren't gritted by the time I'm leaving work so taking a motorcycle is a huge risk on our roads in winter. 

I was just hoping perhaps somebody on here has heard of a similar scenario and I would have loved to hear the outcome. Either way I'll find out tomorrow when I call them.


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## Bronco Lane (1 Dec 2014)

Can you get car insurance and tax just to drive over the winter/part time or do you have to pay the full year cost?


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## Seagull (2 Dec 2014)

Do you live in a gated estate, or does it have open access to the public? If it's open to everyone, then it's defined as a public space, and your car needs to be taxed and insured, even if it's left in a parking space.


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## NowhereMan (2 Dec 2014)

ELG said:


> Which brings me to my last point. I definitely can't afford to take a legal case or bring the management company to court.



I would think the small claims court covers this, for €25?


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## ELG (4 Dec 2014)

Bronco Lane said:


> Can you get car insurance and tax just to drive over the winter/part time or do you have to pay the full year cost?



Yes you can get Tax for 3 Months. I pay for a full years Insurance up front but after 3 months get a pro rata refund on the remaining months.


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## ELG (4 Dec 2014)

Seagull said:


> Do you live in a gated estate, or does it have open access to the public? If it's open to everyone, then it's defined as a public space, and your car needs to be taxed and insured, even if it's left in a parking space.



Well yes and no. It's a private car park, there a signs everyone saying so. But the public can drive in and pay as the car park is protected by a barrier and operates on a ticketing system. 

Your last sentence about a car requiring tax is not true if it's in a private space, but that space is in a public car park. You can't be clamped or ticketed for parking in/on your own property. This is something ive looked into in the past. What you are basically saying is anyone living in an apartment complex who owns a car can NEVER declare their car off the road.


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## so-crates (4 Dec 2014)

peteb said:


> You say it was a designated spot.  but was it your designated spot? Or a designated visitor spot?



Hi ELG - I am not sure if this question was answered? It may be of relevance to determining why you have been told your car was illegally parked. There may be rules about occupying visitor spaces on a permanent basis. I think you need to talk to a solicitor as it does sound like they may be in the wrong.


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## Bronte (4 Dec 2014)

ELG said:


> . The car in question hasn't been used since last January. A good service and it's as good as new. It has plenty of life left in it.
> 
> .


 
Well I wouldn't be much of a car expert, but I would have thought it was very bad practice not to give a car a little ride every now and then. Also can't understand why you didn't wash it, it sounds like it was unsightly and uncared for with no up to date insurance or tax disk. 

Presumably the OMC acted as it did because of complaints, and boy were they efficient - did they not notify you of what they were going to do, are you sure they knew it was your car? Does it have a registration plate or other identifying feature - like a note in the window !


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## lantus (4 Dec 2014)

ticketed car park which the public use? Would this be a shopping centre car park that has apartments as part of it which residents can use?

You may find that the lease contains much broader sweeping powers of control over vehicles and access in such car parks whether they be open air of part of a multi level system. Its not just unit owners that have access but any member of the public. The company has a duty of care not just for safety but to ensure the place is kept in A1 condition as unsightly aspects could impact on businesses and other commercial activities.

Just a thought, may not be relevant. If it is for the public then conceivable there are no allocated spaces. You park where you can? If that is the case you would have diminished rights.

Still would imagine they would try to contact you though. What did they say when you rang them Monday?


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## Boyd (4 Dec 2014)

Note OPs original post:


ELG said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am an apartment owner and *my apartment came with a private car parking  space*. However I ride a motorcycle almost all year round, motorcycle  parking is free in the apartment complex. I do own a car, registered in  my name and *parked in one of the designated private spaces*.



Seems fairly private to me...IMO management company is waaaaaaaaaaaay out of line, especially if they didnt contact OP.


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## shoestring (4 Dec 2014)

I'm not sure OMC had a right to remove if it was parked in a private space, especially if you had provided them with your reg. 

I have to agree with the minority of posters here however, in that the management company were probably hounded by a good few people in your estate in order to get the car removed. Just cause it did not bother you doesn't mean it is not going to annoy other people. 

Did the OMC try to contact you while you were on your holidays? Did they put a notice on your car? What is the statutory period of notice they have to give if they did, one week, two? Devil's avocate: 1. a complainant knew you were on holliers and made the complaint the day after you left 2. the statutory period of notice for  a sticker on your car is two weeks and they stick it on your car day 2 of your holliers 3. Day 16 of your holliers it was removed. 

You need to ask a solicitor.


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## lantus (4 Dec 2014)

just curious how it can be a private space if the public have full access? Is there another access control system?

How do you stop the public parking in your space once they have full access to the car park and have paid?

Also, even where you have designated spaces with numbers these are not usually the owners property. Typically its just a right of access to use it. Owners like to refer to these as their private car parking space but often it is no different to a hallway or other common entrance area from a legal perspective. Its the companies property to which owners have a right of access subject to conditions and contractual compliance. Occasionally spaces can be totally private.

Has there ever been clamping?


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