# What would your definition of a management consultant be?



## casiopea (12 Aug 2005)

Hi Guys,

What would your definition of a management consultant be?
(In the context of PWC, accenture).  Would I be right in thinking they are business developers and/or experts/gurus in a certain field (technology, accounting, science). Responsible for identifying/scoping/costing solutions for clients?

In IT, for example, in accenture what would the difference be between a regular consultant and a managment consultant (seniority aside).

Kind regards,
cas.


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## ajapale (12 Aug 2005)

wikipedia is useful for all sorts of definitions including this one for management consutlant.

ajapale


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## Humpback (12 Aug 2005)

My ould man reckons that a "management consultant" is someone who's failed at anything else they've tried to do themselves, and resorts to trying to make money on telling other people how to do things. In the spirit of "do as i say, not as I do".


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## CCOVICH (12 Aug 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> My ould man reckons that a "management consultant" is someone who's failed at anything else they've tried to do themselves, and resorts to trying to make money on telling other people how to do things. In the spirit of "do as i say, not as I do".


 
Sounds more like sour grapes, i.e. no-one was willing to pay your ould man serious amounts of money for his advice and expertise.


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## Sherman (12 Aug 2005)

Hmm, not sure I agree. I would have thought that the idea behind being a management consultant is that you actually have experienced/studied the business environment on which you are advising. I know loads of people straight out of college (admittedly extremely bright) who straight away became mgmt consultants billing outrageous amounts, telling execs 20 yrs their senior where they were going wrong...


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## Humpback (12 Aug 2005)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> Sounds more like sour grapes, i.e. no-one was willing to pay your ould man serious amounts of money for his advice and expertise.


 
On the contrary, as a self-employed person, he used his own knowledge and experience to keep himself in the lifestyle which he desired.

No sour-grapes at all if you're making more money than the "supposed" experts sent in to help you out.

And, before anyone else has a go, my statement was a personal belief, which I share. I'm not saying that it's a profound statement of fact.

From much experience of management consultants from all of the bigger firms (Big 5?), in a couple of different industries, I have yet (personally!!) to see a decent return on investment from having brought in management consultants.


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## CCOVICH (12 Aug 2005)

Fair enough guys, I've worked with management consultants on various projects from time-to-time and found them to be capable enough people, but everyone's experience is different.

However, it's important to remember that:
(i)  if your own management was 'good enough' why would you need to use a consultant in the first place?
(ii)  they have to be asked to give advice, they don't just march into companies uninvited and start giving orders; 
(iii) at the very least, they should be able to give an independent assessment an opinion of an 'internal' situation, i.e. they don't have to be concerned about promotion prospects etc.

Sherman, yes, it's not ideal to have someone straight out of college going into a position like this, but everyone has to start somewhere.  As to telling someone who has 20 years experience where they are going wrong-why not?  If someone is in the 'wrong', shouldn't they be told?  Outrageous fees?  That really depends on your opinion of the service they provide I guess, but yes they are high (and this impacts on all of us as our own government is one of the biggest users of consultants in this State).

Anyway, I'm not a consultant, and never have been.


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## casiopea (12 Aug 2005)

Interesting responses.  It does seem to be a bit of a grey area doesnt it....if you are bright and do a good interview or not so bright but have an mba hey presto "management consultant".
Even the wikipedia link states that the line between IT consultant and Mgt consultant is not very clear.

thanks
cas.


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## RainyDay (12 Aug 2005)

As a former management consultant/IT consultant, the best definition I came across was someone who, when asked the time, borrows your watch, tells you the time, then keeps your watch.


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## Capaill (12 Aug 2005)

Rainyday

I like that definition<g>

C


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## ajapale (13 Aug 2005)

*The Institute of Management Consultants in Ireland (IMCI)*


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## ajapale (13 Aug 2005)

I googled for "ten reasons to hire a consulatant" and got the following which I thought I might share:
    Ten Reasons to Hire a Consultant

     10. To bring someone in with a fresh perspective and a new set of eyes. Often we become so close to our business we can no longer see the issues and opportunities before us. 

     9. To bring in temporary or on-going expertise to enhance your current team. 

     8. To bring in a skill set or background that's not currently in your organization and you can't justify a full-time employee. 

     7. Be able to bring in a senior-level executive for a limited time without the expense of a long-term commitment. 

     6. Assist on a special project or need.  This frees up your staff to focus on their current responsibilities. 

     5. Bring in an objective voice to help facilitate new direction and change. 

     4. To bring in the "outside expert". Often an organization's leaders or staff are more willing to change because of the "expert's" recommendations. 

     3. To use a "neutral" person to assist in key planning meetings.  This enables all principles to focus on participating in the meeting rather than facilitating it. 

     2. Coach the leaders themselves.  Executive coaching is an ongoing partnership that helps individuals live with a greater degree of success personally and professionally. It's true leadership development. 

   1. Ask the tough questions.


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## ajapale (16 Aug 2005)

*10 Things youll never hear a consultant say!*

10 things you'll never hear a consultant say


You're right; we're billing way too much for this.
Bet you I can go a week without saying "synergy" or "value-added".
How about paying us based on the success of the project?
This whole strategy is based on a Harvard business case I read.
Actually, the only difference is that we charge more than they do.
I don't know enough to speak intelligently about that.
Implementation? I only care about writing long reports.
I can't take the credit. It was Ed in your marketing department.
The problem is, you have too much work for too few people.
Everything looks okay to me.


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## Capaill (16 Aug 2005)

Another reason to hire a consultant;

"bring in an outsider to be a sacrificial lamb.  We have made a balls of this project so lets hire a consultant and pass the buck onto them.  If the project succeeds we are great managers for hiring the consultant, if it fails well the consultant could'nt delvier on our requirements"

C


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## efm (17 Aug 2005)

I think it's time to stand up for my profession!

I am a consultant - there, I said it; already I feel like I'm on the road to recovery.

All consultants, management or other, are as varied as any other profession; you can have good, bad and mediocre consultants just as you can have good and bad bus drivers or solicitors.

What consultants usually give an organisation is a set of skills that the organisation doesn't have to hand for a particular task.  For example: a company wishes to replace the computer system that it uses to do its day to day work; the company is very busy, has limited free resources and has never changed any of its systems.  A consultant, with relevant industry experience, can make a difference to this company by helping the company choose a new system in a structured and methodical way, by offering advice on the merits of other systems in the market, by analysing and documenting the current and long term requirements of the company and by helping with review of contracts / sla's / delivery / installation etc etc. (You can replace "system" with machine / person / programme / strategy depending on your need and industry)

In my experience very few pure Management Consultants actually exist - probably the best known and biggest are McKinsey's who specialise in giving organisational level advice / help to medium and large organisations - I have worked with McKinseys a number of times and found them excellent at the macro level and pretty useless at the practical level i.e. you'd get McKinsey's in to plan your global marketing strategy but you wouldn't get them in to change your office layout or your server room or to implement a new accounting package.  Then again McKinsey's don't sell themselves at the micro level, it's not where their core competencies are (<--- Warning consultant speak).

With regard to cost, yes consultants are expensive, but the alternative is to hire someone full time and that can end up costing you a lot more in the long run.

So that was the 3 minute pitch on why you should hire efm consulting; this week only I will be offering a 15% discount on fees for askaboutmoney members 

efm


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## Humpback (17 Aug 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> As a former management consultant/IT consultant


 
RainyDay - are you implying here that a management consultant and an IT consultant are one and the same thing?


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## Lemurz (17 Aug 2005)

Having had the pleasure of working with a number of consultants in the past, my definition would be somebody in a suit with a pulse on a superb hourly rate!

In my last encounter I spent my days educating the so called experts, with my company picking up the tab.  

I'm not saying all consultants are brain dead - just the few I've worked with.


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## RainyDay (17 Aug 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> RainyDay - are you implying here that a management consultant and an IT consultant are one and the same thing?


They can certainly overlap - I spent 5 years with one of the big 6 (ah the good oul days) consulting firms. Most of my work was on fairly pure IT consultancy, but on certain assignments, I provided broader management consultancy.


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## Gordanus (19 Aug 2005)

"Benchmarked against best-in-class peers, intellectual capitalleverage reveals significant upward potential moving forward."
=companies like yours make better use of their employees' knowledge.

(Example from a brilliant & extremely readable philosophy book on the way we argue/ discuss things, in his section on Jargon.  Jamie Whyte "Bad Thoughts: A Guuide to Clear Thinking" Anyone read it?  Loved the sections on Begging the Question, The right to your opinion)


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## Humpback (19 Aug 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> They can certainly overlap - I spent 5 years with one of the big 6 (ah the good oul days) consulting firms. Most of my work was on fairly pure IT consultancy, but on certain assignments, I provided broader management consultancy.


 
I think that this is one of the problems with consultants. Where, if you're an IT consultant do you get the knowledge/skills/experience to become a management consultant?

There's no way they should be interchangeable. (No reflection on your adaptability personally RainyDay).


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## RainyDay (19 Aug 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> I think that this is one of the problems with consultants. Where, if you're an IT consultant do you get the knowledge/skills/experience to become a management consultant?
> 
> There's no way they should be interchangeable. (No reflection on your adaptability personally RainyDay).


So where do you reckon anyone can get the knowledge/skills/experience to be a management consultant, then?


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