# We should have mass testing



## mathepac (21 May 2020)

Why are we wasting time on and resources on this [anti-body testing] when it could be run in parallel with the mass testing advocated by the WHO and with the efficacy proven by countries like *South Korea, pop 51.2M, deaths 264**. While mass testing, ask test candidates who fit the profile if they want to be part of the pilot for anti-body testing. No, we prefer the fanfares for useless anti-body testing. What does it prove anyway - have I had asymptomatic COVID-19 infection multiple times and have multiple anti-bodies? It's all just more nonsense.

* https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

mathepac said:


> Why are we wasting time and resources on this when it could be run in parallel with the mass testing advocated by the WHO and the efficacy proven by countries like *South Korea, pop 51.2M, deaths 264**. While mass testing, ask test candidates who fir the profile if they want to be part of the pilot for anti-body testing. No, we prefer the fanfares for useless anti-body testing. What does it prove anyway - have I had asymptomatic COVID-19 infection multiple times and have multiple anti-bodies? It's all just more nonsense.
> 
> * https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/


Lots of people who think they had it just had a different respiratory infection. There were loads of them knocking around in February and March this year.


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## elacsaplau (22 May 2020)

I must admit not knowing as much about Covid as I probably should. On occasion, my interest increases somewhat but such periods are short-lived before my interest wanes. This is not a proud boast but simply to qualify what I'm about to say - as in, hey "I'm no expert here"!

All that said, it seems to me that something does need to change as the current situation is unsustainable. In particular, my understanding of the narrative of the Irish authorities is that we can move from one phase to the next - so long as we, the people, wash our hands, keep our distance, wear/don't wear/sometimes wear a mask, etc.

This narrow conditionality of moving through the phases needs to be broadened. Specifically, what are the authorities going to do in relation to effective testing, resulting and tracing. Such a roadmap needs also to be presented and prompto!


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

Our plan seems to be based on what the population should not do rather than what the Authorities are doing and will do.


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## Leo (22 May 2020)

I don't think there can be an 'effective' level of testing where we can all relax and think there's no risk though. How often would every member of the population have to be tested for it to be effective? Is once a week even enough? 

The data still isn't clear enough to be confident that the presence of anti-bodies will protect you against all current and future strains of COVID-19. Lots of people get the flu, another RNA virus, multiple times. Infection does not give you life long immunity from that strain.

We need to figure out how we can live with this, not expect we can eliminate it.


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

Leo said:


> I don't think there can be an 'effective' level of testing where we can all relax and think there's no risk though. How often would every member of the population have to be tested for it to be effective? Is once a week even enough?
> 
> The data still isn't clear enough to be confident that the presence of anti-bodies will protect you against all current and future strains of COVID-19. Lots of people get the flu, another RNA virus, multiple times. Infection does not give you life long immunity from that strain.
> 
> We need to figure out how we can live with this, not expect we can eliminate it.


The advice in New York is that those in groups with a high risk of spreading it (those in the healthcare, transport and meat processing sector) should be tested every 5 days.


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## Leo (22 May 2020)

Purple said:


> The advice in New York is that those in groups with a high risk of spreading it (those in the healthcare, transport and meat processing sector) should be tested every 5 days.



That's probably the lines we should be focusing on too. I don't think we'll ever get to the capacity of comprehensive frequent testing. Many would likely refuse to cooperate anyway as the testing isn't all that pleasant if carried out correctly.


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## elacsaplau (22 May 2020)

Purple said:


> Our plan seems to be based on what the population should not do rather than what the Authorities are doing and will do.



Ever think of taking up the political game Purple? (You just need a hard neck but de pension is good.)
And so my fellow AAMers, we need to ask not what we can do for our country but what our country can do for us!



Leo said:


> I don't think there can be an 'effective' level of testing where we can all relax and think there's no risk though.



Who said otherwise?!! [Read...…..obviously, still bruised by d'other thread!!]

By effective, I meant efficient, timely, localised, etc., etc. - I was not talking about risk elimination/eradication but risk evaluation and management. I was talking about how we can effectively live with this - the status quo being unsustainable. 

I have admitted that it's not my area of speciality but I'd be amazed if our overall testing regime is world class - again where testing, resulting and tracing considered in tandem. I was simply saying that the authorities need to define an ideal infrastructure in this regard and the project plan/milestones/timescales in getting there. I accept that there are some unknowns that complicate the picture.

At a general level, my general experience with authorities in Ireland is that they can be highly capable of prescribing what others should do but are far less comfortable having the torchlight directed at themselves!!


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> At a general level, my general experience with authorities in Ireland is that they can be highly capable of prescribing what others should do but are far less comfortable having the torchlight directed at themselves!!


Very well put.


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## Leo (22 May 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> By effective, I meant efficient, timely, localised, etc., etc. - I was not talking about risk elimination/eradication but risk evaluation and management. I was talking about how we can effectively live with this - the status quo being unsustainable.



Yeah, I wasn't responding to your post as much as a perception I see reflected in some other posts here and sections of the broader media/ public where some seem to believe that mass testing is a once and done exercise. 



elacsaplau said:


> At a general level, my general experience with authorities in Ireland is that they can be highly capable of prescribing what others should do but are far less comfortable having the torchlight directed at themselves!!



Hear hear! Pontification is easy, our politicians are masters of the art.


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## mathepac (22 May 2020)

My own frustration with the authorities is that refuse point blank to be influenced what others have done successfully and to turn the deaf ear to authorities like the WHO. They lacked any cohesive plan and are now flailing around in the dark without direction hoping something, anything they happen to hit will impress the electorate instead of using @elacsaplau's torch of wisdom and clarity.

@Leo, I'm not advocating once-off testing of the population and, unlike our leaders, I understand it's as pointless as not doing mass testing. Repeat testing of at risk populations should be part of the plan we so sadly lack. Copy the plans of those who have saved the lives of thousands of countrymen, ask for the plans with the humility of the utterly useless. It  could still save lives and reduce infections unless they piss all the money away on more PowerPointless slides and lacking in Excellence graphs.

Let's assume part-time medic Leo, starring in his own medical drama, had had a plan and let's assume the supporting cast somehow managed to execute that plan as well as the South Korean's did theirs, what might the outcomes for our population have looked like?

South Korea: Pop 51.26M, Cases 11,412, Deaths 264
Ireland: Pop 4.93M, Cases 1,098, Deaths 26  instead of
Ireland: Pop 4.93M, Cases 24,391, Deaths 1,583

Based on the latest time-aligned figures from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries 

Unelected Leo and his band of gypsies are responsible for paralysing our economy, more than 23,000 unnecessary cases of infection and suffering and the waste of more than 1,550 lives. Who will call them to account for their performance and the ongoing waste a resources on pontless pilots? When will they meet their own performance targets or is ongoing failure to be the mark of our health services forever?


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

mathepac said:


> Unelected Leo and his band of gypsies are responsible for paralysing our economy, more than 23,000 unnecessary cases of infection and suffering and the waste of more than 1,550 lives. Who will call them to account for their performance and the ongoing waste a resources on pontless pilots? When will they meet their own performance targets or is ongoing failure to be the mark of our health services forever?


I think that's unfair. South Korea had a Pandemic plan in place since SARS and, crucially they have a large military infrastructure which can implement that plan.


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## Leo (22 May 2020)

mathepac said:


> Let's assume part-time medic Leo, starring in his own medical drama, had had a plan and let's assume the supporting cast somehow managed to execute that plan as well as the South Korean's did theirs, what might the outcomes for our population have looked like?



The problem you have is that the population here refuses to isolate like they did in South Korea and wouldn't tolerate the mass surveillance measures they have in place. We've done way more testing per head of population than they have, so more testing isn't the answer.


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## mathepac (22 May 2020)

Purple said:


> I think that's unfair. South Korea had a Pandemic plan in place since SARS and, crucially they have a large military infrastructure which can implement that plan.


I think I'm being more than fair. They had a plan, we didn't, shame on you Leo [EDIT: Part-time Head of Government, for clarity]. We failed to mobilise the largest and most expensive employer in the State, the Health Services and the Dept of Health combined. Our PPE purchases failed to meet the corpulent needs of health workers, grown fat and indolent by decades of indulgence, to paraphrase your own observation.


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## Purple (22 May 2020)

Yes, but no elected government In this country it powerful enough to take on the a Public Sector, the real and permanent  government of the State.

it’s like blaming the mayor of a town in Sicily for not sorting out the Mafia.


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