# property Management Fee



## Techie (11 Nov 2018)

Hi Folks,

Why is the property management fee so high? Every apartment pays 2 grand per year and there are 40 apartments but the actual maintenance work that's been done over the course of year not seem to justify the price. Does houses pays maintenance too?

Thanks,
Techie


----------



## Protocol (11 Nov 2018)

Have you seen the accounts of the OMC?


----------



## gnf_ireland (11 Nov 2018)

The owners of each apartment effectively own the OMC [Owners Management Company] and they elect to maintain the management company each year at their AGM, where the accounts should also be shared.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...anagement_companies_for_apartment_blocks.html

If you feel you are not getting value for money, enquire there and see what the story is

And no, house owners do not in general (unless part of a larger complex) as it is for the upkeep of common areas. Please see above link for more details


----------



## lantus (12 Nov 2018)

Without knowing the development the relative cost is meaningless. 

Lifts, gates, common areas, insurance, grounds, professional fees and other factors all play a part. 

The annual budget will detail all the costs. Go and review.


----------



## Ravima (21 Nov 2018)

get involved = get voted onto the board


----------



## Namdos (23 Nov 2018)

The management fee is simply the total cost of running the common parts of the building. Every building is laid out differently and as such no management fee is same. 

You will(or should!) be issued before each AGM a budget which breaks down every item of expenditure. This goes out with the AGM notice at least 21 days before the AGM. You have 3 weeks to look at this and question any aspect of it. Failing that you can go to the AGM and ask questions when the budget is put to the members.

As Ravima says you can always go one step further and join the Board itself


----------



## galway_blow_in (23 Nov 2018)

Techie said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Why is the property management fee so high? Every apartment pays 2 grand per year and there are 40 apartments but the actual maintenance work that's been done over the course of year not seem to justify the price. Does houses pays maintenance too?
> 
> ...



Cultural acceptance of high fees, absurdly high fees are the norm, area ripe for abuse, developer often has directors role from the start and awards contracts for grounds maintenance,waste collection, to mates who overcharge to everyone except him.

Management company members - unit owners often take passive role and fail to challenge directors,most don't even attend AGM.


----------



## elcato (23 Nov 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> Cultural acceptance of high fees, absurdly high fees are the norm, area ripe for abuse,


Bit harsh. I am a member of two management companies and I can assure you that the directors in both are actively getting quotes beside the management agents to compare and make sure we get value for money. The beauty of them is that if you feel that there is skullduggery going on you can become and active member and director to make sure it doesn't.


----------



## Palerider (23 Nov 2018)

Management company members - unit owners often take passive role and fail to challenge directors,most don't even attend AGM.[/QUOTE]

Could not agree more to the extent I'd never buy an apartment in the country again, perhaps the City areas are better than the country areas but thread carefully, if you have two Directors thinking the same way a lot can be achieved, ,my experience was terrible with agent hiking his annual fee for doing very very little by more than 50% last year in a small block and total disinterest from other two Directors when I brought in an alternative at €100 a door less. 

I sold out and moved on, gouging is more common than you'd imagine and that was my experience.


----------



## Namdos (23 Nov 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> Cultural acceptance of high fees, absurdly high fees are the norm, area ripe for abuse, developer often has directors role from the start and awards contracts for grounds maintenance,waste collection, to mates who overcharge to everyone except him.
> 
> Management company members - unit owners often take passive role and fail to challenge directors,most don't even attend AGM.




Developer or associate's of them have a directors seat from the start because they built it. They typically step once once all the units are sold and common area transferred. There no big conspiracy or skullduggery here.

The developer also has to pay the same service charge as anyone else while he owns the units too.

Some of the tinfoil hat nonsense regarding OMCs and agents that are spouted around are hilarious.


----------



## Palerider (23 Nov 2018)

Beg to differ Namdos, There were 16 owners in my block built early 90's, developer long gone, the agent was brutally inefficient with shocking record keeping of collections, I considered a formal complaint when the books were failing to balance but then my guardian Angel delivered a buyer unto me.....a jammy exit with lesson learned.


----------



## Namdos (23 Nov 2018)

Sounds like a bad situation Palerider.

Forgive me if I misinterpreted your post. I was just specifically pointing out regard to two points mentioned in Galway blow in that there is nothing usual about a developer being director at the outset of an OMC and that the idea the developer gets some sort of deal with the service charge is just ridiculous.

As regards overall skullduggery in OMCs there are plenty of honest Boards and Agents but unfortunately I have witnessed and heard plenty of bold stuff too!


----------



## galway_blow_in (23 Nov 2018)

Namdos said:


> Sounds like a bad situation Palerider.
> 
> Forgive me if I misinterpreted your post. I was just specifically pointing out regard to two points mentioned in Galway blow in that there is nothing usual about a developer being director at the outset of an OMC and that the idea the developer gets some sort of deal with the service charge is just ridiculous.
> 
> As regards overall skullduggery in OMCs there are plenty of honest Boards and Agents but unfortunately I have witnessed and heard plenty of bold stuff too!



The developer usually has a strong hand in how the management company is run,tendering is often the opposite of how you might expect, most expensive service provider is chosen.

Kickbacks etc.

Owned an apartment a few years ago, bin collection was more expensive than where I live in rural Galway, block I owned the apartment in, you could lift twenty bins in ten minutes on your own.


----------



## noproblem (23 Nov 2018)

I don't know the rules governing Lifts in apartments in Ireland but in some European countries the costs and legal rules of lifts alone are very substantial. That's only 1 item.


----------



## Namdos (25 Nov 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> The developer usually has a strong hand in how the management company is run,tendering is often the opposite of how you might expect, most expensive service provider is chosen.
> 
> Kickbacks etc.
> 
> Owned an apartment a few years ago, bin collection was more expensive than where I live in rural Galway, block I owned the apartment in, you could lift twenty bins in ten minutes on your own.



Ah here. If the developer is a director of the OMC then course they should have a large say in running the block- Directors, be they the developer or owner, have the most say in how to run things and there's nothing unusual about that.

As regards tendering and choosing the most expensive contractor that makes no sense. If the developer chooses the most expensive providers it means their own service charge is going to be higher for it.

If the developer is indeed doing this and has sold all his units in the block but still remains as a director then the other owners need to step up and get on the Board.


----------



## galway_blow_in (25 Nov 2018)

Namdos said:


> Ah here. If the developer is a director of the OMC then course they should have a large say in running the block- Directors, be they the developer or owner, have the most say in how to run things and there's nothing unusual about that.
> 
> As regards tendering and choosing the most expensive contractor that makes no sense. If the developer chooses the most expensive providers it means their own service charge is going to be higher for it.
> 
> If the developer is indeed doing this and has sold all his units in the block but still remains as a director then the other owners need to step up and get on the Board.



Not if the developer gets a kickback or has their annual fee waved.


----------



## Namdos (26 Nov 2018)

Then report the agent and Directors to the PSRA.

If an agent is waiving a directors fee it should be obvious from the accounts. 

Mind you I have heard of some dodgy agents waiving a fee getting the director to pay fees as normal but "gifting" a directors a holiday voucher for the same value of the fee at a later date- mind you the situations this allegedly happened it was owner directors who were in cahoots and not the a developer director.


----------

