# Neighbours planning extension



## Kacy75 (19 Jul 2017)

Our neighbours are planning a small extension to the side of their house, still in talking stages at present. I get the impression they want to build up to our shared boundary however for about 2 metres our garden juts out causing about 6 inches more on our side then theirs that we use to store the kids bikes so use able space.  We are hoping they will build slightly in on their land and we can keep our land and the original fence, however I think this maybe a sticking point for them as there is limited space between the two properties and making extension smaller then it can potentially be and the jut has already been brought up and suggested land belongs to them *convenient being they have never mentioned it before.
I am having concerns about lighting, tunneling effect and overshadowing.  I also want to know how this will affect us if later down the line we want to do the same. Upshot is we don't want to lose our land small as it is (but used everyday) but don't want to take away the possibility of building on later on.
Can they insist we lose our fence, would rather look at a fence with trellis than a 3 metre high wall.
Sorry for all the questions I have no building knowledge and unsure on rights
We have lived in property for ten years and never removed boundary just fence panels at a joint expense 
Many thanks
Kacy


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## Kacy75 (19 Jul 2017)

Should add the jut out carries on right up our back garden but they would need to claim about 2 metres of it from us, I know they can't just claim land however they like but reading other threads it seems people do. Going on holiday in a few months which neighbours know about and worried work will start then


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## noproblem (19 Jul 2017)

If the piece of ground is yours, it's yours, if it isn't then you're going to find out once your neighbour looks for planning, etc, as maps will have to be part of the planning process. Seems you guys are on speaking terms and get on, i'd certainly want to keep it like that. I'm surprised that you don't know if the area in question is part of your property or not regardless of the fact you use it on a daily basis. Maybe you should check this out yourself before assuming anything prior to planning.


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## Kacy75 (19 Jul 2017)

We have always believed the land was ours and the fence a shared boundary, am I right in thinking this is not the same as party wall? Yes we do get on in fact very well the last few months but they can  easily a tad selfish when it suits them! We don't want to fall out but I think there trying to insinuate the fencing has been replaced incorrectly at some point


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## Leo (19 Jul 2017)

Just because there's an existing fence does not make this the official boundary. In many suburban settings one party erects a wall or fence on their property within the boundary, later the neighbouring party remove the party wall/ fence and take over and make use of that space. That doesn't automatically give them ownership, but this can be a complicated situation to correct.

It's worth noting that in the vast majority of developments, boundaries between properties generally follow a straight line. Logically, why would someone insert such a small offset along part of a boundary when demarking sites?


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## Kacy75 (19 Jul 2017)

Its possible that could of happened but i am certain it wasnt in the last fifteen years and definately not in the last ten we have lived here. Keeping the fencing is important to us as we feel their wall would be intruding if built on the boundary line. A family builder is also building their extension which is worrying as he could build in their favour. Our only saving grace to encourage building being stepped back is the jut on their side as building around it probably not practical. We are considering building a mirror image with them but as we haven't budgeted for it it will all fall down to costings. But if we don't go ahead I want to protect our rights. If it appears they are right can they legally take land back as this line goes right up our garden. Think I'm going to contact planning department. Thanks for your input


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## noproblem (19 Jul 2017)

Contacting the planning department won't tell you who owns the ground. Get an engineer.


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## Leo (19 Jul 2017)

I believe 12 years continuous use is the criteria for asserting adverse possession (squatters rights) if you are looking to steal this piece (of land of course only if the official maps show it as their property)

It would be best establish exactly what they intend to do here and try to come to an agreement, particularly if you want to lave the option open to extend in future. Cases like this can get very expensive very quickly.


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## LS400 (19 Jul 2017)

If you were to do a mirror build in the future, would you not benefit from the shared new boundary wall extension.

Years ago I planted hedging inside the boundary wooden fence to the side of my garden, it grew well and in-time the wooden fence now on their side gave way. The hedge lost a battle with winter a few years ago, and the now new neighbour and I agreed a shared wall to replace same. The new neighbour thought the centre line of the old hedge would be the new boundary line for the wall, and so would I have thought same, had I been him.

Point being, for practicality reasons, some times fences and hedging are erected offset to official boundary line for one reason or another.  I know if I were them and was building a small extension, 6 inches would mean a lot..


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## jjm (19 Jul 2017)

Kacy75 there is a good chance some one was not a tad selfish in the past and allowed boundary be moved causing the present problem you need to start asking your self a few questions,

(1) we will start with the one you need to answer first if boundary is in incorrect position and not yours on maps are you going for( squatters rights ) if so I suspect there will be no one building anything for a while ,

(2) I suspect all kinds of problems are going to crop up if you are claiming ground first of all they will have to keep back from new boundary and the way things are going at present things are not looking good .the will  need your premission to carry out work from your side .

(3) You say I am having concerns about lighting, tunneling effect and overshadowing ,By tunneling are you talking about putting in foundations and keeping back from border,

(4) you say can they insist we lose our fence ,would rather look at a fence than a 3 meter high wall, Reading between the lines I don'n think you want the extension full stop if so say so and dont use the jut out as the reason in other words for lighting/tunnelling effect and overshadowing  you would still object unless building is kept back even if there was no jut out (the problem you have is extinsion needs to be back more on there land  so there is a fence between you when  extension is built

(5) You say I also want to know how this will affect us if we later down the line we want to do the same,It is called don't cut off your nose to spite your face  .
I expect knowing human nature you already know the answer



(6) you say we are considering building a mirror image with them but as we haven't budgeted for it it will all fall down on costings, I would expect that if you are talking about a semi detached extension the cost would be a lot less than  a detached extension later,(have you looked at building a core extension and finishing it at a later date or finishing  outside same time as  Neighbours and finishing the inside over time you may be able to come to some arrangement,

I think if ye can meet half way and get the boundary sorted correctly both of you will be the better for it long term,

Both of you appear to be good Neighbours and how ye sorting out this problem will strengthen or weaken your relationship done the correct way will be a bonus for both of you,


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## Black Sheep (19 Jul 2017)

I would never agree to using the boundry wall as part of their new structure as there will probably be an overhang at roof level. This will cause problems for you if you are selling or indeed building your extension. 
They will also need to come into your garden to plaster the boundry wall and above. What happens to your hedge on that case?
We are at that stage right now. The new (monster) garden shed has been built (not on the boundry but within inches of it. They now need to plaster it from our side and have requested that we cut down the hedge to facilitate it.  No chance!!!!


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## LS400 (19 Jul 2017)

So they build on their side of the boundary, and you still have a problem with it.

I would rather look out at a finished plastered wall than a rough finished block structure from your side.

They also only need to plaster above the height of your hedge. So I would cut the height of the hedge to a minimum level, let them plaster and as it grows, you trim it to above the plaster finish.


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## Leo (20 Jul 2017)

Black Sheep said:


> I would never agree to using the boundry wall as part of their new structure as there will probably be an overhang at roof level.



You can insist on a parapet wall along boundaries. This will facilitate the owners on the other side building a similar structure in the future.


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## Black Sheep (20 Jul 2017)

LS400 
They want the hedge reduced by 2 feet to cap the wall to get the full value of their large window.


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## jjm (20 Jul 2017)

Leo said:


> You can insist on a parapet wall along boundaries. This will facilitate the owners on the other side building a similar structure in the future.


And it would have sorted out the window problem for good they could have insisted on no window on boundary,


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## Leo (21 Jul 2017)

jjm said:


> And it would have sorted out the window problem for good they could have insisted on no window on boundary,



I'm assuming the window is rear facing. You can't put a window within 1m of the boundary it faces in terraced or s-d situation.


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## jjm (21 Jul 2017)

Black Sheep said:


> LS400
> They want the hedge reduced by 2 feet to cap the wall to get the full value of their large window.





Leo said:


> I'm assuming the window is rear facing. You can't put a window within 1m of the boundary it faces in terraced or s-d situation.





Black Sheep said:


> I would never agree to using the boundry wall as part of their new structure as there will probably be an overhang at roof level. This will cause problems for you if you are selling or indeed building your extension.
> They will also need to come into your garden to plaster the boundry wall and above. What happens to your hedge on that case?
> We are at that stage right now. The new (monster) garden shed has been built (not on the boundry but within inches of it. They now need to plaster it from our side and have requested that we cut down the hedge to facilitate it.  No chance!!!!


Black Sheep is it rear facing your suggestion of a parapet makes since in most cases if neighbour intend building later also


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## Black Sheep (21 Jul 2017)

There are windows on all 4 sides of this building. 2 facing into their own garden, 1 into ours, 1 to the neighbour at the back and glass doors to the other side. We are semi-d with them. 
The neighbour behind may have objected as that window was blocked up days after the opening was made during the build


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## Leo (21 Jul 2017)

OK, you need to talk to them again and let them know that a window to the side facing your garden must be more than 1m from the boundary. If their wall is the 1m from the boundary, then access to render won't be an issue. You have no obligation to trim any hedge within your property.


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## kceire (25 Jul 2017)

Leo said:


> OK, you need to talk to them again and let them know that a window to the side facing your garden must be more than 1m from the boundary. If their wall is the 1m from the boundary, then access to render won't be an issue. You have no obligation to trim any hedge within your property.



This is true but only for exempted structures. As the OP states that the extension is to the side, im assunming tha Planning will be applied for. You can then have the window closer subject to planning. I have done so on my own dwelling.

OP, I would strongly suggest you both agree the boundary line and construct a suitable wall that can take extensions 2 stories and on both sides. Parapet at the top allows you or the neighbour to construct a flat roof or an apex roof without oversailing issues. This can also allow the same into the future for the neighbour.

The last thing you need is to build just inside your boundary, then the neighbour later builds just inside their boundary and you now have a small rat run between the extensions that nobody maintains and is a magnet to birds, nesting and dirt!


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## nutty nut (5 Aug 2017)

Kacy75 said:


> We have always believed the land was ours and the fence a shared boundary


Thinking the land or ground is yours means nothing in the real world. You need to get the relevant legal maps and then get someone (digital land surveyor) to carry out a boundary check to determine where the legal boundary is and not where you "believe" it is. A quick trawl through this web site and others will show the numerous problems that exist with so called "boundaries" being different to where people think they are.


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## Kacy75 (31 Aug 2017)

Thank you for all your advice which I have taken on board. We are at present not going ahead with the project after getting a quote twice what was originally quoted by the builder aka their uncle. It feels like wed be part paying theirs too. So back to original worries. We have asked they build no further than their boundary not astriding it which they have agreed to although the bit the juts in is still a sticky issue. We bought house with fence as it is and the jut runs from the side alley right to bottom of garden so a very established line. It's difficult to see on plans though as it starts mid alley.  Yes I don't really want extension tbf and only considered doing it together so we didn't have to look at it.  But I'm not prepared to pay a silly price for it. So where do I go from here is I guess what I'm asking. I don't want to fight with my neighbours as they are nice if a little selfish at times but I also don't want my land to be put a jeopardy or be intimidated by their builder. I feel this is going to be a fair few months of stress as they also won't give us plans (unwilling to do the) so we can't council their intensions


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## Kacy75 (1 Sep 2017)

Should mention too they are planning to do this as cheap as possible so potential to cut corners concerns me greatly too. The bottom of the garden to their side their is a concrete fence post which I have found out was put in by previous occupants of their house when they lowered the back if their garden which runs with the current width of the boundary line. They are trying to say our previous owners changed the boundary to suit them but it now appears their previous owners were also working to current boundaries. I just think their trying anything to gain extra width to their build now. If they dug up our land I worry a court wouldn't be interested due to the size of land in question but if they did unlawfully take our land it would mean a complete breakdown in relations


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## kceire (1 Sep 2017)

You need an engineer or surveyor to advise you on the ground and can look at next doors plans and speak to the builder and understand exactly what is going on. 

There's only so much you can get across in text on a forum.


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