# Tenants using deposit for last months rent



## Sipe (29 May 2018)

Hi

Our tenants of close to 3 years have advised us that they are moving out within 3 weeks and are using the deposit as their last months rent. Their lease isn’t up until October.

What are the rights of a landlord in this instance? Do we have chance of seeing the rent? 

Thx!


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## Palerider (29 May 2018)

What is your concern, the deposit covers it and you have knowledge of them for a long time, if you do not trust them then ask that they pay the rent.


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## Gordon Gekko (29 May 2018)

Palerider said:


> What is your concern, the deposit covers it and you have knowledge of them for a long time, if you do not trust them then ask that they pay the rent.



What a strange post.

The concern is obvious; the tenants are blackguarding the OP and playing fast and loose with the rules.

He/she should insist that they pay the rent.


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## AlbacoreA (29 May 2018)

Technically they are breach of the lease if they use the deposit for rent. 

There's nothing left for damages otherwise.


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## DeeKie (29 May 2018)

Write to them. Demand the rent.


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## Sarenco (29 May 2018)

AlbacoreA said:


> Technically they are breach of the lease if they use the deposit for rent.


There's no "technically" about it - the OP's tenants would be in clear breach of their statutory obligations  if they don't pay the agreed rent in full as it falls due for payment.  

Also, the OP is entitled to 8 weeks' notice of termination from his tenants and is entitled to the agreed rent up to expiry of that notice period.

I'm sure a lot of landlords are inclined to let these things go but the OP would certainly have grounds to file a complaint with the RTB if his tenants don't meet their obligations.


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## Palerider (29 May 2018)

So my views are contrary to the last few posters, never mind making complaints or demands, you know them three years, if they have proved solid and your property visits were satisfactory then I would have no issues, good tenants are good tenants and a three year term with no vacancy or leasing fees is not bad.


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## Gordon Gekko (29 May 2018)

A tenant who doesn’t give the appropriate notice and who refuses to pay his/her final months’s rent is not a good tenant.


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## AlbacoreA (30 May 2018)

In fairness if you got 3 yrs trouble free, unless they destroy the place the deposit is not biggie. But its more the principle. do it by the book or not.


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## MrEarl (30 May 2018)

Hello,

What was their reason for the short notice, and their decision to vacate before the end of the lease ?

If they didn't give one, I would arrange to pop over to them and ask them what's going on.  Exceptional circumstances may be a factor here, but if they are not, then you could take the opportunity to remind your tenants of their obligations under the lease and ask them how they propose to honor their commitments.  You could also take the opportunity to have a quick look around and identify any repairs that may need to be attended to.

Based on all we see and hear, you shouldn't have a problem finding a new tenant at similar rent.  That gives a level of underlying comfort here.  If they have been good tenants for the three year period, I would be inclined to give them some flexibility (although that would be subject to how they are behaving when you speak with them etc.)


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## rob oyle (30 May 2018)

I would suggest that most of the time, providing insufficient notice by tenants is based on the new landlord not giving tenants enough/any lead time before taking on a property. Such is the power that landlords have at the moment that tenants, when moving to a new property, are given a 'take it or leave it' offer that makes no allowance for notice periods with their current landlord.

For example: I viewed a property on 23rd January and I was told that if I wanted to take it on, it was being leased from the 27th January.


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## noproblem (30 May 2018)

Exceptional circumstances or not, how are you to know they'll be telling the truth? If I as a Landlord break my agreement there's plenty of do gooders out there to make the law work in their favour. They, the tenants just can't up and go, pay the remainder of their wrong notice with the deposit and think they'll get away with it. Serious questions need answering, contracts need to be paid in full.


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## noproblem (30 May 2018)

rob oyle said:


> I would suggest that most of the time, providing insufficient notice by tenants is based on the new landlord not giving tenants enough/any lead time before taking on a property. Such is the power that landlords have at the moment that tenants, when moving to a new property, are given a 'take it or leave it' offer that makes no allowance for notice periods with their current landlord.
> 
> For example: I viewed a property on 23rd January and I was told that if I wanted to take it on, it was being leased from the 27th January.



And? I don't see what your problem was/is?


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## rob oyle (30 May 2018)

noproblem said:


> And? I don't see what your problem was/is?


That tenants are not simply gaming the system in some way. Tenants can give notice with no knowledge that they will be able to move at the end of the period, whereas landlords can give notice with full knowledge of what they will do at the end of the period.

In my case, the point was I had 4 days notice of taking on the new property (or not, and gamble over where I'd live) but a requirement to give 112 days to my existing landlord.


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## IdesofMarch (30 May 2018)

Sipe, you have to ask yourself, is it worth all the hassle to make complaint to the RTB, have they been good tenants, is the house in reasonable condition, is there a likelihood of a fallow period after they leave?


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## Sipe (30 May 2018)

Thanks everyone for your replies!

We are non resident so the property is managed by an agent so it’s hard for us to find out what’s really behind it. And the agent isn’t good so they aren’t good at noticing problems (we often pick up problems from their pictures after hey tell us everything is fabulous)

We are just concerned if they damage the place etc or leave the place in a complete mess, we have absolutely no come back. At least with the deposit you can insist they clean up to the standard they got the place. All going well, we would give their full deposit, but who knows.

Our previous tenants did damage and we got stung so just nervous about that too (broken beds and chairs).

The other point is that it seems tenants can leave whenever they want. It’s not so easy if we needed them to leave with such short notice. We now need to find new tenants at short notice mid lease when we hadnt budgeted for it. And who knows if the property will be in a move in condition when they vacate.... and what it will cost us to any issues which perhaps would have been protected by the deposit.


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## Sipe (30 May 2018)

IdesofMarch said:


> Sipe, you have to ask yourself, is it worth all the hassle to make complaint to the RTB, have they been good tenants, is the house in reasonable condition, is there a likelihood of a fallow period after they leave?


_ 
_

What kind of complaint could we make and what would the outcome be?

Thx


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## LS400 (30 May 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> A tenant who doesn’t give the appropriate notice and who refuses to pay his/her final months’s rent is not a good tenant.



In this day and age, a tenant who doesn't trash the place and pays their rent is a good tenant. You really need to put things into context. 

Sipe, Id say you have been hassle free in your role as a Landlord, and lucky for you.. but these guys are moving on regardless, if you want to meet trouble half way, continue on your mission and you wont be disappointed.  

All the posters saying, get stuck in, demand this and that, guarantee you, they'd be the first to see sense. Move on.


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## valery (30 May 2018)

From my experience, it’s fairly common for tenants to use deposit as final months rent.
I now take a deposit of 6 weeks.


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## Sarenco (30 May 2018)

_@Sipe
_
Your complaint would relate to rent arrears, failure to provide an adequate notice of termination and failure on the part of your tenant to observe their obligations.

The process for submitting a dispute for adjudication is outlined in some detail on the RTB's website:-
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution-old/submitting-a-dispute-online/

Whether or not you decide to go down this road is obviously up to you - I'm just trying to answer your actual questions.

Regardless, it sounds like you should be in the market for a new agent...


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## MrEarl (30 May 2018)

Sipe said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies!
> 
> We are non resident so the property is managed by an agent so it’s hard for us to find out what’s really behind it. And the agent isn’t good so they aren’t good at noticing problems (we often pick up problems from their pictures after hey tell us everything is fabulous) .....



Hi,

I don't think you mentioned the agent before now, and particularly that you don't rate the agent.

I'd put immediate pressure on the agent to earn their keep.  See what they come up with.  Have you seen written evidence that the tenant did only give the notice period that you've been told they gave etc. ? Likewise, has the agent not advised you on what action you can take, to seek to enforce the lease etc. ?

I would also replace the agent, if you are not entirely happy with the current one.  As you are living abroad, you need a good agent that you can trust and rely on, and lets face it - this is someone you are paying, not someone who is managing your property as a favour etc. !


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## landlord (30 May 2018)

valery said:


> From my experience, it’s fairly common for tenants to use deposit as final months rent.



As an experienced landlord I can tell you this is most definitely not the case. 

 This is an extremely dangerous path to be going down.  You need to be firm with your agent and tell him or her that you will not accept the deposit to be used as the last months rent.   Let your agent know that if pressure is not put on the tenant to pay the last months rent you will be seeking the services of a different agent.  This has happened to me twice before and both times I remind rigid on my insistence that the tenant pay and they did.


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## Sipe (7 Jun 2018)

Update:

The tenants moved having not cleaned the place and leaving junk behind including toys and 2 desks.

They are suddenly no longer contactable and without a deposit we must now foot the cost of the clean up and removal of junk....

No deposit, no recourse for us landlords


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## cremeegg (7 Jun 2018)

rob oyle said:


> Such is the power that landlords have at the moment that tenants, when moving to a new property, are given a 'take it or leave it' offer that makes no allowance for notice periods with their current landlord.
> 
> For example: I viewed a property on 23rd January and I was told that if I wanted to take it on, it was being leased from the 27th January.



While I can understand that this is frustrating for a tenant, what under the current law is the alternative. A landlord cannot in practice show a property until the existing tenant has moved out. The landlord cannot be sure that a tenant will move out until they actually do move. There is another active thread here where a tenant gave notice themselves and then didn't move.

When the tenant does move and the landlord shows the place, naturally the landlord wants to get the place rented as soon as possible. In your example the landlord would lose the 4 days rent, which is one thing, but also not be certain that you were going to take the place. Any landlord is going to favour a tenant who wants to commit immediately and start paying rent. 

This is another example of the self-defeating effects of regulation to favour the tenant. If regulation gave a landlord certainty that they could get possession on a known date and allowed a period before that for reasonable access for viewing we could have a more civilised process of changing over tenancies.


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## cremeegg (7 Jun 2018)

Sipe said:


> Update:
> 
> The tenants moved having not cleaned the place and leaving junk behind including toys and 2 desks.
> 
> ...



Being a landlord is a frustrating and thankless occupation in every way except one. But that one is very important.


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## Seagull (7 Jun 2018)

The question now is whether you have any recourse against your letting agent.


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## Thirsty (7 Jun 2018)

Be grateful they are gone - overholding would have cost you 10 times more.


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## Sarenco (7 Jun 2018)

@Sipe

Do you have PRSI numbers for your former tenants?  The RTB has access to a variety of resources to help track down errant tenants.

Most folks would just let this go but you might want to try and pursue your former tenants for unpaid rent, etc, as a matter of principle.


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## Palerider (8 Jun 2018)

Who would be a landlord, yet another story to add to the many, I am sorry despite being good tenants that they let you down but it seems turnover costs will not amount to much.


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## Bronte (11 Jun 2018)

Sipe said:


> We are non resident so the property is managed by an agent so it’s hard for us to find out what’s really behind it. And the agent isn’t good so they aren’t good at noticing problems (we often pick up problems from their pictures after hey tell us everything is fabulous)
> 
> We are just concerned if they damage the place etc or leave the place in a complete mess, we have absolutely no come back. At least with the deposit you can insist they clean up to the standard they got the place. All going well, we would give their full deposit, but who knows.
> 
> ...



I'm non resident too and I couldn't care less if I get no notice or if they use up the deposit as rent.  I've been at this for two decades and I always expect to have to clean up the place and repaint if necessary.  Sometimes tenants will paint and I willingly supply paint.  We've all got stung. It's part of how it works.  You're main issue is that you have to pay for the clean up. This money should have been set aside by you for such an eventuality.  It takes 5 minutes to put an ad on daft, and with the way things currently are you've be rented again in jig time, maybe on a higher rent. 

Surely your agent would have people to get the place ship shape in a day or two.  I got Polish pateners one Christmas to paint a 3 bed house and they did it in about 3 days or less.  Big tall straping lads who didn't need to use ladders.  Couldn't believe how fast and efficient they were. Got their name from an ad in the local paper.  Recently I repainted and put in a new kitchen (fire by tenant and got insurance) and got people via ads and it all worked out grand.  Managed to do it from abroad with my husband visiting once on a Saturday to meet potential workers. 

And don't waste your time with the old tenants, or with the RTB.  That idea is laughable.


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## Bronte (11 Jun 2018)

Sipe said:


> And the agent isn’t good so they aren’t good at noticing problems (we often pick up problems from their pictures after hey tell us everything is fabulous)
> 
> We now need to find new tenants at short notice mid lease when we hadnt budgeted for it. And who knows if the property will be in a move in condition when they vacate.... and what it will cost us to any issues which perhaps would have been protected by the deposit.



Two issues are striking here.

a) Bad agent
b) budgeting

Neither of those have anything to do with the tenant. 

Get rid of the agent, get a larger deposit next time and put money aside.


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## Bronte (11 Jun 2018)

Palerider said:


> Who would be a landlord, yet another story to add to the many, I am sorry despite being good tenants that they let you down but it seems turnover costs will not amount to much.



They were good tenants for 3 years. They left on time, they left a place needing to be cleaned and a few bits dumped. This is no biggie.


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