# Actuarial support for Tracker Appeal



## LadyHB (29 May 2018)

I need the help of an actuary to support the appeal I'm planning to submit. I need help to illustrate where my pension would be had over-charges gone into my personal pension rather than my mortgage. Can anyone recommend an actuary to approach directly to provide this kind of service?  I've been in touch with one company who will only deal with me through a solicitor and not directly. I don't feel the need to engage a solicitor for the appeals process so hoping to avoid that additional expense.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 May 2018)

Who has asked you to get an actuary? 

It will be very expensive to do that calculation and I am not sure that it would help you much. 

But if the Appeals Panel asked for it, then you will have to get it. 

Brendan


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## LadyHB (30 May 2018)

A financial advisor who didn't feel capable of producing the calculation himself suggested an actuary. A have got a quote of about 1.5k from an actuary (but one who insists on me going through him via a solicitor which will therefore incur and additional fee). 

Who else would I go to? Or how else can I present this to an appeals panel?


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## Brendan Burgess (30 May 2018)

LadyHB said:


> A financial advisor who didn't feel capable of producing the calculation himself suggested an actuary.



Then change your financial advisor. 

The argument you seem to be using is 
You overcharged me by €10k 
If you had not done so I would have put €20k into my pension
That would be worth €28k today. 
After tax at 20% or whatever, the net loss is €20k

I think that the Appeals Panel would dismiss this argument.  So you should not be paying a lump of money for an argument which is likely to be dismissed.  You can make the argument in general terms and if the Appeals Panel uphold it, then they might well suggest an actuarial valuation. 

Brendan


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## Steven Barrett (30 May 2018)

The financial advisor is correct, you would need an actuary to calculate it for you. 

A suggestion would be to see if your life company would do it for you? Explain to them what you are doing and if the appeal is successful, you will be awarded a lump sum that will be paid directly to the life company as a pension contribution. If you have a financial advisor, ask them to request it for you (better chance they'll do it for someone who gives them lots of business). 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## LDFerguson (30 May 2018)

Some years ago I was involved on behalf of a client in a dispute with a pension trustee, which went along somewhat similar lines.  The client's argument was "if I had got this money when I should have, I would have invested it in X fund and it would now be worth €Y".  I didn't feel that this was a strong argument given the number of ifs.  But the client and her solicitor wanted the calculations.  Although my client did ultimately win some compensation as she did have a valid complaint, the calculations about what the money might have been worth if it had been invested in a particular fund were ignored.  Rightly so, in my opinion.  With hindsight it's easy to pick a fund that did terribly well over the period you're looking at.  Or even if you're simply looking at a fund where your pension fund already invests, there's no guarantee that you WOULD have invested it there.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 May 2018)

SBarrett said:


> The financial advisor is correct, you would need an actuary to calculate it for you.



If you need a calculation, you might want to get  an actuary to do it for you.

But it's unlikely that you would need such a calculation.

Brendan


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## LadyHB (31 May 2018)

As noted on a previous thread about this from Jim Stafford..."one way to present your case to the Appeals Panel would be to present a "Before and After" computation i.e. show what the present day value of your pension fund today with what the present day value of the fund would have been if you had kept up your pension contributions."

To do that, I do need to engage an actuary to calculate it. 

But I will add, I'm not really focussing or bothered about the return that may, or may not have been achieved if I had put the overcharged amount into a pension fund...it's more about missing out on the tax relief and my pension being under-funded for the period of over-charging.  I was over-charged over 40k. Had I put that money into my pension, regardless of any gains on the fund - it would have increased the fund by about 70k (given the tax relief).  I can't just put the refunded amount into my pension fund now, as I'm already putting in the maximum allowable. As a result, I feel I've missed out. There's no where else that over-charged amount would have gone except into a pension fund...I had no debt other than my mortgage and I had savings appropriate for my income /lifestyle.


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