# Annual Pension Statements - what amount of detail to expect?



## cbisto (22 Mar 2007)

Hi - this is my first post so please be patient!

I'm  female, self employed, age 29 and set up an Executive Pension with Arklife 3 years ago. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time - friend of the family worked there so told me what to do and I didn't ask too many questions or make any comparisons with other products -  was only concerned with getting it started for the tax breaks involved. I was, however, contributing a reasonably substantial amount each month as I didn't have any other plans for the cash and the idea of lowering my top rate tax bill gave me minor kicks!

I finally got around to reviewing it recently and realised that I hadn't received any report on the progress of the pension in the 3 years since I started it. Each year I'd get a letter saying they were increasing my contribution by 5% and would do so automatically unless I asked them not to. This was the only correspondance I received.

So I contacted them to discuss the current value of the fund - and over the last 6 weeks must have phoned 5 times requesting that my account statement/ breakdown be sent out. Each time I was assured it would be done immediately and they expressed surprise that I hadn't been receiving it annually as they claimed this was standard procedure. It was only at the fifth attempt and after leaving an irate voice message that I finally got my statement this week.

To my disappointment all the much awaited report included was a total of my contributions to date and the current value of the fund. No detailed breakdown of charges etc. The reason I'm posting is just to see whether this is standard practice ? Do other banks have good transparency  in highlighting the charges, fund performance etc on their pension statements?

I am aware of the upfront charges - its 3% on all contributions (over €800pm), 1% of fund value annually and I think a €5 monthly 'account charge' ............ as if they are not getting enough off me! I was told these were non negotiable within Arklife - is this the case or has anyone had any success in bargaining them down a little?

Incidentally a colleague has just had a similar experience with BOI. Realised he wasn't getting annual statements and had to phone several times before he finally got his very basic report - each time they acted like it was unusual for this to happen and swore they would be on the case straight away! Why they are so un co-operative when it comes to this or have I just had an unlucky experience? Are they afraid we will revolt en masse when we see exactly how much they are creaming off us ?

Anyway - thats my rant - dunno if anyone is still reading ? Overall value of the fund is up 22% on my total contributions - is this a good yield considering the bull market we've been having for the past 3 years?

Please let me know if anyone has any insight/ advice/ similar experieces

thanks!
cbisto


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## ClubMan (22 Mar 2007)

cbisto said:


> To my disappointment all the much awaited report included was a total of my contributions to date and the current value of the fund. No detailed breakdown of charges etc.


I think that this is normal - certainly in my own experience with occupational, personal and _PRSA _pension schemes. The charges should have been notified to you separately at the outset and explained in the original pension documentation and terms & conditions. In my experience with such schemes you generally receive at least an annual statement as a matter of course other than with paid up occupational schemes in which case the pension provider is not obliged to automatically issue statements annually (which is a pain!).


> I am aware of the upfront charges - its 3% on all contributions (over €800pm), 1% of fund value annually and I think a €5 monthly 'account charge' ............ as if they are not getting enough off me! I was told these were non negotiable within Arklife - is this the case or has anyone had any success in bargaining them down a little?


 Doesn't sound like the worst charging structure in the world but you could do better - for example 0% on each contribution/1% annual management fee on a low charges _PRSA _if applicable. See here:

The cheapest PRSA?

Don't forget that just as important as getting competitive charges is getting a satisfactory level of service, appropriate fund selection etc.

If in doubt get independent, professional advice. I would expect that you accountant might be able to give some pointers?


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## boaber (22 Mar 2007)

The following links set out the disclosure requirements

http://www.pensionsboard.ie/index.asp?locID=32&docID=220

http://www.pensionsboard.ie/index.asp?locID=3&docID=375#301

Happy reading!


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## Towger (22 Mar 2007)

cbisto said:


> Each year I'd get a letter saying they were increasing my contribution by 5% and would do so automatically unless I asked them not to. This was the only correspondance I received.



I have a pension with Eaglestar and the above is ALL it get, appart from the odd junk mail. After 10 years with them, I think it is time to go shopping again.

Towger.


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## ClubMan (22 Mar 2007)

What additional information are you looking for? I get almost too much information with each statement for my _Eagle Star PRSA_! I guess it must be required under the _PRSA _legislation or something. I usually shred all but the actual statements which I retain. I can also check details on their online system www.eaglestarlife.ie (_Secure Login _link).


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## Towger (22 Mar 2007)

ClubMan said:


> What additional information are you looking for?


Well a annual statement would be nice, for a start! Listing monthly contributions, monthly unit purchase price, total contribution, total units and total value of fund. Plus management charges (broken down) etc.

Then I would add a graph of fund performance since start of pension. Projected value of fund at retirement and annuity + projected values taking inflation into account (value in todays money/purchasing power). There was a wizard in old versions of MS Money to do this. This would be in their own interest, as people think they are great putting the likes of €50 a week into a pension, but the reality is it will give them sweet FA at the end of the day with inflation running at 4-5% compounded per year!

I managed to logon last year, but can no longer do so, despite them resetting my password etc.

Towger.


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## ClubMan (22 Mar 2007)

Towger said:


> Well a annual statement would be nice, for a start! Listing monthly contributions, monthly unit purchase price, total contribution, total units and total value of fund. Plus management charges (broken down) etc.


With the exception of monthly unit prices I get more or less all of that inforamtion for my _ES PRSA_.


> I managed to logon last year, but can no longer do so, despite them resetting my password etc.


Strange - you should pursue them on this. I have never had any major problems with their online system other than when it was down for maintenance.


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## F. Kruger (22 Mar 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Doesn't sound like the worst charging structure in the world but you could do better - for example 0% on each contribution/1% annual management fee on a low charges _PRSA _if applicable.


 
If it is an Execution Only service that is required, you can also get the same charging structure for an Executive Pension on www.prsas.ie and as the product is with Eagle Star you would also have Web Access to the account.

There is a drop-down menu on the Information Pack page

(have interest in site)


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## punter (23 Mar 2007)

boaber said:


> The following links set out the disclosure requirements
> 
> http://www.pensionsboard.ie/index.asp?locID=32&docID=220
> 
> ...


 
Are those links are relevant to the original poster's question? I understood that the Pensions Board only deals with Occupational Pension Schemes. In CBISTO's opening she tells us that "I'm female, *self employed*, age 29 and set up an Executive Pension with Arklife 3 years ago." 

I would imagine that [broken link removed]is the first place to go for information regarding minimum disclosure requirements



> - *Consumer help-line:* lo-call 1890 77 77 77 -





> Open from 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday and from 9am to 1pm Saturday.


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## punter (23 Mar 2007)

Towger said:


> Well a annual statement would be nice, for a start! Listing monthly contributions, monthly unit purchase price, total contribution, total units and total value of fund. Plus management charges (broken down) etc.
> 
> Then I would add a graph of fund performance since start of pension. Projected value of fund at retirement and annuity + projected values taking inflation into account (value in todays money/purchasing power). There was a wizard in old versions of MS Money to do this. This would be in their own interest, as people think they are great putting the likes of €50 a week into a pension, but the reality is it will give them sweet FA at the end of the day with inflation running at 4-5% compounded per year!
> 
> ...


 
I have money in a number of different self employed pension products. The quality of informatino provided varies from the reasonably good (ES, SL - though no great depth of detail is available) to the truly woeful. It took one provider 5 attempts at producing an Annual Statement for me last year before I got one that was correct. And the information it contained was very limited.

I agree that the information set out by Toger is a good starting point. I demanded similar info from a couple of providers in the past, and made my continued contribution to thier products conditional on obtaining it. Whenever I actually got it, it was accompanied by a lot of huffing and puffing, and a feeling that they had done me a great favour. Mind you, in one of these cases the monthly contributions were split 15 ways, so I wasn't making it easy for them!

The whole area of pensions for the self employed is fundamentally unregulated from Pensions perspective (i.e. IFSRA do an acceptable job from a prudential point of view making sure that the product provider is solvent and doesn't run off with your money). But NOBODY is looking out for you, your pension and the adequacy of the return; the role which is undertaken by the Trustees in a DB occupational scheme. So you better do it yourself. (And to be honest, DC occupational schemes aren't much better)


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## ClubMan (23 Mar 2007)

punter said:


> I understood that the Pensions Board only deals with Occupational Pension Schemes.


No - they also deal with _PRSAs_.


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## punter (23 Mar 2007)

ClubMan said:


> No - they also deal with _PRSAs_.


 
My point was that they don't deal with Self Employed pensions; therefore referring the original poster to the Pensions Board was wrong.


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## ClubMan (24 Mar 2007)

Fair enough - but a _PRSA _is not an occupational scheme.


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## boaber (27 Mar 2007)

punter said:


> Are those links are relevant to the original poster's question? I understood that the Pensions Board only deals with Occupational Pension Schemes. In CBISTO's opening she tells us that "I'm female, *self employed*, age 29 and set up an Executive Pension with Arklife 3 years ago."
> 
> I would imagine that [broken link removed]is the first place to go for information regarding minimum disclosure requirements




Executive Pensions are ALSO occupational pensions.  They are one person arrangements constituted under letter of exchange.

Perhaps you are thinking of Personal Pensions?


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## Guest126 (27 Mar 2007)

If the OP is self-employed then it could not be an Executive Pension Plan (there must be an employer-employee relationship for the EPP)?


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## boaber (27 Mar 2007)

It's true that there has to be a employer-employee relationship, but the one person could be both??  If the OP is trading as a company (registered or not) or as a sole trader or a partnership, then an EPP can be set up. 

In the case of a sole trader/partnership, there would have to be at least 2 NAMED trustees, rather than having the Employer/Co as trustee


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## Guest126 (27 Mar 2007)

An EPP is under occupational pension legislation which means the usual very high contribution limits (compared to those that apply to an individual - self-employed or otherwise)...a self-employed person cannot operate an EPP.

If the term self-employed is being used loosely to cover off the scenario of Proprietary Director then yes of course an EPP would be available.


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