# Donald Tusk's "special place in hell" remark



## mathepac (6 Feb 2019)

I have been known (alleged, ya eejit, alleged!!) to speak what passes for my mind on the odd occasion, but I found Donald's remarks today shocking. Not necessarily the words but the tone in which he delivered them. He sounded frustrated, just another word for angry, with the utter nonsense May &  Co are visiting on us yet again.

Does Teresa understand that the offer on the table awaiting her government's/parliament's approval is not up for renegotiation? Does she understand she can't do side deals with Ireland? She either agrees to the current offer or crashes out with all the awful consequences for everyone.

I don't believe Donald's remarks are directed solely at Teresa but probably at the guy, her predecessor, who set us all up and then galloped off to the lucrative world on directorships, ghosted "auto-biographies" and the lecture circuit.

Anyone with an ounce of leadership, foresight or a number of brain cells greater than zero could have sat down with a bunch of advisors and brainstormed about "If A is outcome then we need to do this, if B is the outcome we need to do that, else we need to do something else." That individual or his side-kicks could have handed the tiny decision tree off to the  high-paid help to model and war-game and come back in days or weeks with a solid plan. There was no plan, no modelling, no flow-chart just an opening of Pandora's box and no way   to stuff the contents back in or find another home for them. As Del Boy used to say "What a bunch of plonkers Rodders!"

I think Donald spoke for me today. Does anyone agree or will I be thrun out with Teresa?


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## PaddyBloggit (6 Feb 2019)

mathepac said:


> I think Donald spoke for me today.



He didn't speak for me. Not with the language he used. He's supposed to be representing the EU as a whole and professionalism should dictate that he would choose his language/words carefully. Language that inflames the situation is of no help to anyone.

There is no other deal on the table. Mrs. May needs to realise that but insulting people isn't the way to go.

Brexit should happen at the end of March. Britain will crash out without a deal and there will be a hard border.


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## odyssey06 (6 Feb 2019)

Poland and Hungarys antics within the EU but UK gets this reaction from Tusk? Fascist.

What help will Ireland get if our backstop eggs in one basket strategy fails and we end up with no deal and a border? We could survive a border with a deal.


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## odyssey06 (6 Feb 2019)

What circle of hell would the Italians and Greeks like to put those who came up with the Euro... Tusk kept Poland out of it despite the grand plan for its rollout.


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## MrEarl (6 Feb 2019)

I was delighted with what Tusk said .... not that I am saying I'm delighted with everything that he says etc.

It's long past time that this fiasco with BREXIT was called out for exactly what it is, with those who have caused it help to account etc.


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## noproblem (6 Feb 2019)

Anyone ever try to do business in Poland? There's an awful lot of people to be paid before anything is even discussed properly. They're not unlike the UK in that they still have their own currency. He has some cheek for what he is and who has put him there. It wasn't the people of the European Union.


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## Feemar5 (6 Feb 2019)

I felt his language was inappropriate.  He should just say there will be no change to the backstop and leave it at  that.  In his position he should show more diplomacy .


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Feb 2019)

mathepac said:


> I don't believe Donald's remarks are directed solely at Teresa but probably at the guy, her predecessor, who set us all up and them galloped off to the lucrative world on directorships, ghosted "auto-biographies" and the lecture circuit.



Did you hear what he said? He was not talking about Teresa May or her predecessor. 

[broken link removed]

_I have been wondering what special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it safely _

Some British politicians agree with him 

_Prominent Remain MP Anna Soubry, however, predicted the European Council president would be “wildly misquoted” as she stressed he was commenting on leading Leave politicians rather than “the millions of good people they conned with fake promises they cannot deliver on”._


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Feb 2019)

It is not 'Trusk' but 'Tusk' (like an elephant).


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## mathepac (6 Feb 2019)

So if as you say Brendan Teresa isn't actively promoting Brexit, she must be actively promoting remain.  But she isn't promoting remain, she simply wants a different deal that gets parliamentary support to leave or in the absence of a different deal she'll be forced lead her country in a crash-out. Ergo she is promoting Brexit and she has no plan other than run around like a headless chicken trying to negotiate the unnegotiable.

I say Donald targeted all of them who touted "out" by lying about the benefits for the UK and those who now want an orderly "out" but only on their terms. 

[Edit]


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## mathepac (6 Feb 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It is not 'Trusk' but 'Tusk' (like an elephant).


Thanks for highlighting my typo, it is now corrected.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> What circle of hell would the Italians and Greeks like to put those who came up with the Euro


I think they should blame their own people who lied their way into the Euro.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

noproblem said:


> He has some cheek for what he is and who has put him there. It wasn't the people of the European Union.


Yes it was, through their elected representatives. It's called representative democracy.


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## noproblem (7 Feb 2019)

Well that bates Banagher!


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> I think they should blame their own people who lied their way into the Euro.



Maybe, but then like the euro, there doesn't seem to be a good way for the people to get out of such a mistake.   

So really the Brits should be blaming not the Brexiteers but the politicians like Major who locked them into treaties such as Maastricht without a vote or popular support and no safe esacape plan.


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## Seagull (7 Feb 2019)

mathepac said:


> So if as you say Brendan Teresa isn't actively promoting Brexit, she must be actively promoting remain.  But she isn't promoting remain, she simply wants a different deal that gets parliamentary support to leave or in the absence of a different deal she'll be forced lead her country in a crash-out. Ergo she is promoting Brexit and she has no plan other than run around like a headless chicken trying to negotiate the unnegotiable.
> 
> I say Donald targeted all of them who touted "out" by lying about the benefits for the UK and those who now want an orderly "out" but only on their terms.



May actively campaigned to remain. She then took the poisoned chalice of becoming PM, and that meant she has to negotiate the deal to leave.


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> Yes it was, through their elected representatives. It's called representative democracy.



He wasn't put there by the people of Europe in a vote. His position does not represent any democratic vote.
Anymore than a US cabinet member was put there by the American people.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> He wasn't put there by the people of Europe in a vote. His position does not represent any democratic vote.
> Anymore than a US cabinet member was put there by the American people.


Exactly; he was appointed by us through our elected representatives rather than being directly elected.


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2019)

So far I heard the following from UK politicians:

We can use food shortages as leverage to get Ireland to drop the backstop
Well I haven't read the Good Friday Agreement. It is 35 pages after all (Dominic Rabb)
There was never a hard border in Ireland (Arlene Foster)
I didn't know that Nationalists and Unionists didn't vote for each other. (Karen Brady (NORTHERN IRELAND SECRETARY)
English people are entitled to an Irish Passport and Irish people are entitled to an British passport (Andrew Bridgen Tory MP)
Given the above, does any reasonable person not see why Ireland is so reluctant to trust the UK position that everything will be ok on the night with regard to the Good Friday Agreement. An agreement that they designed, co-signed and are obligated to protect. And we still have a Northern Ireland secretary who didn't know Unionists and Nationalists didn't vote for each other or a politician who thinks Ireland can be united anytime the people in the South decide it. I love England and I have English family and friends but Brexit has brought out the worst in the very many little Englanders who are free to spout their ill-informed, xenophobic, racist views under the Brexit banner. Tusk is right about the people who have been plotting Brexit and peddling lies for years.


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> So far I heard the following from UK politicians:
> 
> We can use food shortages as leverage to get Ireland to drop the backstop



The EU has been using food and medicine shortages as leverage in negotiations with UK from day one. Take off the blinkers.

For every Karen Brady comment, there's Shane Ross.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...cked-by-rosss-gaffe-over-border-37720614.html


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> The EU has been using food and medicine shortages as leverage in negotiations with UK from day one. Take off the blinkers.



Where? Show me one link where the EU has openly threatened the UK with food and medicine shortages to force them change their mind. One link where that was said. Pointing out the realities of the supply chain issues is not the same as a politician openly saying we can use food shortages to make Ireland drop the backstop.

And you are comparing Ross saying something that wasn't meant for public consumption to the Northen Ireland Secretary not even understanding Northern Ireland politics??? That's just weird.


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> Where? Show me one link where the EU has openly threatened the UK with food and medicine shortages to force them change their mind. One link where that was said. Pointing out the realities of the supply chain issues is not the same as a politician openly saying we can use food shortages to make Ireland drop the backstop.



There's no material difference, given that the EU are not just pointing out supply chain issues but causing them through their direct actions and inactions.


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> There's no material difference, given that the EU are not just pointing out supply chain issues but causing them through their direct actions and inactions.



You are not making any sense now. Britain has asked to leave or have I missed something in the last two years. So Britain asks to leave but it the EU's responsibility to sort out the logistics mess? And so I am guessing you don't have a link where the EU has threatened the UK with food shortages then.......


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> Where? Show me one link where the EU has openly threatened the UK with food and medicine shortages to force them change their mind. One link where that was said. Pointing out the realities of the supply chain issues is not the same as a politician openly saying we can use food shortages to make Ireland drop the backstop.
> 
> And you are comparing Ross saying something that wasn't meant for public consumption to the Northen Ireland Secretary not even understanding Northern Ireland politics??? That's just weird.


I don't like Ross. I think he's a bit creepy, a total opportunist, totally lacking in integrity, a complete hypocrite and makes a show of himself when he's in public.
That said it is grossly unfair on the man to drag him down to the level of Karen Brady.


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> You are not making any sense now. Britain has asked to leave or have I missed something in the last two years. So Britain asks to leave but it the EU's responsibility to sort out the mess? And so I am guessing you don't have a link where the EU has threatened the UK with food shortages then.......



Britain is exercising its rights to leave under EU treaty. EU has a core (not the entire) responsibility to accomodate this. Not accomodating this, there is the risk of such shortages.

Please provide the exact quote by conservative politician *threatening *Ireland with food shortages, as opposed to pointing out the consequences of their negotiating position in the event of "no deal". I don't see any threat here.
_A leaked UK report which suggested that Ireland will suffer a GDP drop of 7pc and risks food shortages under a no-deal scenario has been dismissed here.
The report noted that Ireland was a far more open economy than the UK and outlines our vulnerabilities post-Brexit.
Brexiteer Priti Patel suggested the report should have been used to press Ireland to drop the backstop and said there was still time for a renegotiation._
https://www.independent.ie/business...aten-ireland-with-food-shortage-37606209.html


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> I don't like Ross. I think he's a bit creepy, a total opportunist, totally lacking in integrity, a complete hypocrite and makes a show of himself when he's in public.
> That said it is grossly unfair on the man to drag him down to the level of Karen Brady.



Karen Brady appears at least to have the virtue of honesty. It would have been much easier for her to pretend she did know?
I don't think we are in the positions of casting stones at another country's cabinet given the make up of ours.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> Karen Brady appears at least to have the virtue of honesty. It would have been much easier for her to pretend she did know?
> I don't think we are in the positions of casting stones at another country's cabinet given the make up of ours.


Stone them all, that's what I say!

You're right; she's an honest to god idiot.


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## Ceist Beag (7 Feb 2019)

Has Baroness Brady replaced Karen Bradley as Northern Ireland secretary?


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2019)

Ceist Beag said:


> Has Baroness Brady replaced Karen Bradley as Northern Ireland secretary?



Ha ha..Think that was my fault. Too much apprentice watching! Put her in there I say.....


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Ceist Beag said:


> Has Baroness Brady replaced Karen Bradley as Northern Ireland secretary?



Swap deal with Declan Rice thrown in, he'll now play for the North.


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2019)

Actually if they give us Declan Rice, Big Ben (I think it would look good on O'Connell Street) and take Shane Ross, I would be willing to take my chances without the backstop...

Oh and a media ban on all Northern politicans. And they should pay for the Childrens Hospital as well....


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## Zebedee (7 Feb 2019)

Maybe it’s the name “Donald” that sets everybody off


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## Purple (7 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> So far I heard the following from UK politicians:
> 
> We can use food shortages as leverage to get Ireland to drop the backstop
> Well I haven't read the Good Friday Agreement. It is 35 pages after all (Dominic Rabb)
> ...


Don't forget David Davies, when Minister for Brexit, who wanted to negotiate individual trade deals with each EU member state. Clown.


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## noproblem (7 Feb 2019)

In all this Brexit fiasco, do people feel there's anyone coming out of it with their heads held high or in any way honest and respectful?


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## RETIRED2017 (7 Feb 2019)

The UK PM ,


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## Leo (7 Feb 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> Please provide the exact quote by conservative politician *threatening *Ireland with food shortages,



It was only back in December, covered globally. MP Priti Patel suggested they could prevent the use of the UK as  a landbridge for food supplies to Ireland, and should use that threat in negotiations.


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## noproblem (7 Feb 2019)

That's a suggestion, not a threat.


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## odyssey06 (7 Feb 2019)

Leo said:


> It was only back in December, covered globally. MP Priti Patel suggested they could prevent the use of the UK as  a landbridge for food supplies to Ireland, and should use that threat in negotiations.



I can't access link. It's paywalled. What were the exact comments, and did they differ from the comments I excerpted earlier?
I see no threat here so far, or suggestion that Britain should take positive action to obstruct landbridge, as opposed to making Irish government aware of the impact on landbridge in the event of no deal.


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## peemac (7 Feb 2019)

The Tusk comments are mild in comparison to the head of a UK company I deal with and who has sales of circa €200m into the eu.

I asked what plans they had for brexit. 

Answer was "how the f do you plan for something you have no information about, created by a shower of self absorbed, self important selfish f%@#wits."

He's British.


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## odyssey06 (8 Feb 2019)

peemac said:


> The Tusk comments are mild in comparison to the head of a UK company I deal with and who has sales of circa €200m into the eu.
> I asked what plans they had for brexit.
> Answer was "how the f do you plan for something you have no information about, created by a shower of self absorbed, self important selfish f%@#wits."
> He's British.



That's allowed when it's your own team. It's a pretty good description of our Cabinet that I must re-use.


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## john luc (8 Feb 2019)

For me Tusk's comments are bang on the money but saying it out loud at this time is like throwing petrol on a fire. The British political system is in near meltdown and any comments are seized upon by one side or the other. Commence is in poor supply at the moment.


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## Purple (8 Feb 2019)

Tusk allowed the cold wind of reality to blow on the Brexiteer's house of cards.
Shame on him.


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## Duke of Marmalade (9 Feb 2019)

So Leo remembers the customs posts and the soldiers at the border, and does not want to see them return.  I'll drink to that.  But I have a somewhat longer memory than Leo.  There was a time when I traveled up and down from Belfast to Dublin every week.  The journey from Belfast to Dublin was a special place in hell.  Long queues at the customs on the southern side of the border to protect the basket case economy.  And then there were the potholes and the crawl through Dundalk and Drogheda.
The EU changed all that. Customs posts are gone and the M1 now puts the 60s style northern road in the shade. How did the southern economy manage this?  Well they were more than compensated by EU handouts and they were also pretty deft at "alternative arrangements" like VRT on cars.
And of course I remember the soldiers, long after the customs posts had gone.  They weren't there to implement a hard customs border but to offer some protection against the safe haven for the Provisional IRA which southern border counties had become.
Did a word search of the GFA. There is one half reference to the border along the lines of "to promote cross-border trade...".  More relevant is Article 4 which requires all signatories not to use threats of violence from *others *to promote any political objective.  Seems to me that Simon Varadkar and the pan-nationalist front* are doing just that.  They have even cited the recent bombing in Derry to support their case.

_*  I exonerate MM here.  He is part of the PNF but I read between the lines that he would be open to reasonable compromise.  _


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## Rosjohn (9 Feb 2019)

When I hear terms like the 'Pan Nationalist Front" I know it's another who would love to turn the clock back to 1901 and Kingstown again.


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## john luc (10 Feb 2019)

I'm not sure what is ment by, pan nationalist front, but if calling out the irresponsible and quite idiotic position the British government puts forward as a plan then I must be part of it. I too remember Northern Ireland's old days and with time most of the old fanatics like Sammy Wilson and co will just retire and die and that's a good thing because there has being a change going on in the north and it has being leaving these cretins behind.


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## MrEarl (10 Feb 2019)

MrEarl said:


> I was delighted with what Tusk said .... not that I am saying I'm delighted with everything that he says etc.
> 
> It's long past time that this fiasco with BREXIT was called out for exactly what it is, with those who have caused it help to account etc.




Must admit, I got a further laugh when someone sent me a link to an article in the Waterford Whisp....... where they had apparently interviewed Old Nick and (s)he'd said that even hell had standards, so they weren't getting in there either 




Sunny said:


> So far I heard the following from UK politicians:
> 
> We can use food shortages as leverage to get Ireland to drop the backstop
> Well I haven't read the Good Friday Agreement. It is 35 pages after all (Dominic Rabb)
> ...



I couldn't have put it better if I tried !

If only you were writing Leo's speeches these days


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## Deiseblue (10 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> I'm not sure what is ment by, pan nationalist front, but if calling out the irresponsible and quite idiotic position the British government puts forward as a plan then I must be part of it. I too remember Northern Ireland's old days and with time most of the old fanatics like Sammy Wilson and co will just retire and die and that's a good thing because there has being a change going on in the north and it has being leaving these cretins behind.



 Every time I see Sammy Wilson on tv I think thank God he’s fully clothed!


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## MrEarl (10 Feb 2019)

Please disregard - posted in the wrong thread in error.


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## Jim2007 (10 Feb 2019)

Sunny said:


> So far I heard the following from UK politicians:
> 
> We can use food shortages as leverage to get Ireland to drop the backstop
> Well I haven't read the Good Friday Agreement. It is 35 pages after all (Dominic Rabb)
> ...




But it is not just on Ireland they are pig ignorant, on Switzerland I have heard:
- Switzerland is not in the EU and does fine.  Ignoring the fact that we have a bilateral agreement that gives us access
- There are no passport checks on Swiss borders - true, but why would there be since we are a member of Schengen and accept FMOP
- There are no customs checks on Swiss borders - just plain wrong 
- Switzerland does not pay for access- wrong, we do, we contribute to the EU structural funds
And so on.


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## johnwilliams (15 Feb 2019)

question on what leo above said "
MP Priti Patel suggested they could prevent the use of the UK as a landbridge for food supplies to Ireland, and should use that threat in negotiations."
some stuff is coming into uk from europe then from uk to us ,so why won't we get it direct from europe instead ,what am i missing here?


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## Delboy (15 Feb 2019)

johnwilliams said:


> question on what leo above said "
> MP Priti Patel suggested they could prevent the use of the UK as a landbridge for food supplies to Ireland, and should use that threat in negotiations."
> some stuff is coming into uk from europe then from uk to us ,so why won't we get it direct from europe instead ,what am i missing here?


It's a few hours quicker to use the landbridge, especially if heading towards mid-Europe.
I think it also works better for the driver's tacograph recordings from what I've heard


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## HollowKnight (15 Feb 2019)

Delboy said:


> It's a few hours quicker to use the landbridge, especially if heading towards mid-Europe.
> I think it also works better for the driver's tacograph recordings from what I've heard


Yes it would take nearly an extra day to not use the landbridge due to a combination of tacograph and capacity issues at rosslare.


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## Leo (18 Feb 2019)

johnwilliams said:


> some stuff is coming into uk from europe then from uk to us ,so why won't we get it direct from europe instead ,what am i missing here?



This could also be a very serious issue for radioisotopes used in medical imaging here. All our supplies come via the UK, and due to the short half-life, any further delays could mean problems.


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## Purple (18 Feb 2019)

Leo said:


> This could also be a very serious issue for radioisotopes used in medical imaging here. All our supplies come via the UK, and due to the short half-life, any further delays could mean problems.


I though that most of the UK's supply came from the mainland, particularly Holland and Belgium.


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## Leo (19 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> I though that most of the UK's supply came from the mainland, particularly Holland and Belgium.



It all does as far as I know, they're reportedly looking at chartering special flights to transport these over so they are still usable by the time they are delivered.


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