# Anyone use selfbuildrates.ie ?



## Brendan Burgess (8 Dec 2010)

Has anyone used this [broken link removed]? 

I couldn't figure out from a quick glance what they are doing and whether there is a charge for it. 

Brendan


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## Pope John 11 (8 Dec 2010)

Noticed how companies can advertise too, one such company is Brennan Energy Assessors
[broken link removed]

However many of A-Team members are of the same surname
[broken link removed]

In the words of Mícheál O'Muircheartaigh, 'still no relation'

That said I looked over it briefly, interesting how they picked only the alterations to the site entrance to use an an example to their video.

My understanding is that the Company charges €10/month membership fee & should you avail of their rates for your house build you will pay €3/ rate purchased.

I am open to correction though.

I would have my reservations to the normal Joe Soap out there deciding himself to purchase rates, however the Company does mention that they could assist you, of course again probably for a small fee.


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## colorc (10 Feb 2011)

I'm currently in the process of using this site (I'm at the stage of getting my windows fitted now- by a company I found on their directory!!) and so far I am finding it extremely informative and its easy enough to use - but it does take time and patience! But I can't complain when I'm getting a full estimate for my house for a fraction of the cost a QS would charge!  I didn't have to pay 10e per month I signed up for free and was given 10Free credits to get started?? You then purchase credits in bulk (which are discounted), so the rate cost is nowhere near €3?
I'm buying the breakdown of materials and labour which is proving to be very handy especially when I was haggling with our blocklayer and roofer.


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## kkelliher (11 Feb 2011)

colorc said:


> but it does take time and patience! But I can't complain when I'm getting a full estimate for my house for a fraction of the cost a QS would charge!


 
given that it does take time and patience, have you calculated how much time and put a cost against that in order to compare against the cost a QS would charge. 

A Quantity Surveyor will have to charge for his time after all. 

You are also making all the decisions and the budget provided is only going to be as reliable as the information you put into it.


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## Pope John 11 (11 Feb 2011)

kkelliher said:


> You are also making all the decisions and the budget provided is only going to be as reliable as the information you put into it.



Totally agree with this


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## colorc (12 Feb 2011)

kkelliher said:


> given that it does take time and patience, have you calculated how much time and put a cost against that in order to compare against the cost a QS would charge.
> 
> A Quantity Surveyor will have to charge for his time after all.
> 
> You are also making all the decisions and the budget provided is only going to be as reliable as the information you put into it.


 
Please don't get me wrong I appreciate a Quantity surveyor will have to charge for his time, and I acknowledege that it takes quiet a bit of time to do up a budget estimate, however the selfbuildrates.ie site offers the alternative of using your spare time to measure your house which costs me nothing.

I am aware that me making the decisions affects the information in my budget, (although the directions on the site on how to measure the various items are easy enough to follow) but isn't this what self building is all about? minimizing costs by doing a lot of the work yourself and thereby taking the risk aswell?


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## onq (12 Feb 2011)

Most self-builders aren't competent to assess the risk of building incompetently and no, there is no game being played here. If you don't build in accordance with the building regulations on what is likely to be your single biggest investment claiming "its your risk" you're talking from ignorance. It becomes the risk of anyone you sell you and could prove a serious liability as sufferers from Toxic Mould in America have discovered. In addition there is a significant risk of prosecution if people come to harm through your negligence.

In relation to costing a build, a  main contractor's rates include for items that need to be done on site. The bare supply price will not include delivery to site, supply and deliver will not include fixing into place on site, so the whole labour cost thing is askew if you're only pricing building costs. Things that need to be done on site include supplying general operatives to perform attendances for specialist sub-contractors, erecting and maintaining safe operation of scaffolding installations, scheduling deliveries and co-ordinating their placement on site to minimize carriage within the site, safe and weathered storage, preparing and stoning the ground to allow for safe working conditions, etc. Most self-builders don't have a clue about such things, even when they have worked on building sites themselves, because they were working as a general operative, and not as a main contractor or one of his foremen.

More importantly, builders rates assume certain competences and efficiencies and skillsets are in place and applicable to the work on site. IMO builder's rates are not applicable to self-builder's where the level of competence and governance is much lower than with an experienced contractor. Self-builders seem to think that there is some sort of assumed entitlement to kudos merely for getting a house to stand upright and not leak, but a quick glance over this forum or the Construction forum on boards.ie will show the extent of the carelessness and casualties. Sites like the subject site, offering cut-down versions of professional services, run the risk of supplying just enough information to let the self-builder get himself in hot water, with the assumed safety line of one of their experts wading in to assist at that point.

Let me put it like this: I've studies sand-casting, carpentry and bricklaying at the School of Trades when it was in the Linen Hall as part of Bolton Street CDVEC. In my own house have laid a driveway a low random rubble retaining wall and a rear few steps, but I wouldn't undertake carpenter's work or bricklayers work on a building site despite my competent professional's knowledge of the trades in question. I simply don't have the necessary skill. There is a reason why serving time in a trade takes four years. Similarly I would not consider myself competent to act as a main contractor. Quite apart from the knowledge, there is a huge amount of time investing in learning how to DO the thing, just as a concert pianist spends far more time learning and practising than performing in his formative years. You don't just "pick up" the skills to become the main contractor on a site.  In fact, where they have come up through the trades, it is often a qualified bricklayer or carpenter who - many years after completing his masters piece - may have acquired the necessary in-depth knowledge of running a site and safely co-ordinating work to take on board the job of main contractor...

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon  as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be  taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in  Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at  hand.


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## kkelliher (12 Feb 2011)

If I was to even try and put it more on the point I couldn't !


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## onq (13 Feb 2011)

(bows)

Thanks KK

All part of the service to try to help self-builders protect themselves as much as they can.
In short, get rid of the main contractor at your peril, but at least take competent professional advice to compensate.



ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon   as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be   taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in   Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at   hand.


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## colorc (13 Feb 2011)

I agree with you 100%, I have chosen to go the direct Labour route and in doing so I basically have to take on the role of the Main Contractor in that I've to order materials and make sure they are on the site, tender and appoint for the tradesmen and try and programme everything in so that my house won't take me years to build!! etc, etc, etc....

In addition to all this organising I really have to keep on top of all the costs associated with building my house and keep my budget on track as it is tight enough. I'm not in the construction trade so I wouldn't have an iota what different trades would cost per m/m2/hr) so thats why I thought it was really important to get a full budget estimate on my build before I started, by doing this I have already saved nearly 1.5k on my blocklaying costs and just under 1k on my roofing costs as I knew exactly what the cost of the blocklaying and roofing should be and I was therefore able to negotiate the lads down to a fair price for the works. This is where appointing a Quantity Surveyor or using a build costing system like what is on the selfbuildrates.ie site saves you money!


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## onq (13 Feb 2011)

colorc said:


> I agree with you 100%, I have chosen to go the direct Labour route and in doing so I basically have to take on the role of the Main Contractor in that I've to order materials and make sure they are on the site, tender and appoint for the tradesmen and try and programme everything in so that my house won't take me years to build!! etc, etc, etc....
> 
> In addition to all this organising I really have to keep on top of all the costs associated with building my house and keep my budget on track as it is tight enough. I'm not in the construction trade so I wouldn't have an iota what different trades would cost per m/m2/hr) so thats why I thought it was really important to get a full budget estimate on my build before I started, by doing this I have already saved nearly 1.5k on my blocklaying costs and just under 1k on my roofing costs as I knew exactly what the cost of the blocklaying and roofing should be and I was therefore able to negotiate the lads down to a fair price for the works. This is where appointing a Quantity Surveyor or using a build costing system like what is on the selfbuildrates.ie site saves you money!



Let me be quite clear on this. Either appoint a Quantity Surveyor and get a competent service, or use selfbuildrates.ie and be subject to your own limitations. I am not saying that selfbuildrates.ie serve no purpose. I am saying that you will get a more targeted and professional service from a QS appointed by you.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.


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