# Job Seekers Benefit - disqualified if you try to enhance your work skills.



## Alphabet (2 Oct 2008)

My father was recently made redundant from his job.  He was advised that he should apply for Job Seekers Benefit.  He has heard back from them that he will not be entitled to it because he has signed up for a language class two mornings a week (4 hours) and a back to education course (4 hours a week).  

He specifically signed up for these courses to increase his chances of obtaining a new job. (and on the advice of FAS).  He is 60 years old and has worked for the past 32 years in the same company, therefore he signed up for the courses immediately for fear of being idle.  I cannot find anything on the welfare site to say that 8 hours of courses disqualifies you from the benefit.  Could anyone tell me if this is accurate?  

Asides from this he is worried that if he is not signing on for this, he will not be entitled to his state old age pension at 65 as he will be short stamps.  Is this accurate?


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## ClubMan (2 Oct 2008)

What about the sections here relating to attending education/training courses?

*AVAILABLE FOR FULL-TIME           WORK*


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## Alphabet (2 Oct 2008)

Hi Clubman.  Thank you for your quick reply.  I have seen this, but how do you define 'available for work'?  My dad's priority is to get a new job and he is actively looking. 8 hours of study a week does not affect this in any way.  If he gets a job, he leaves the course.


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## ClubMan (2 Oct 2008)

Alphabet said:


> Hi Clubman.  Thank you for your quick reply.  I have seen this, but how do you define 'available for work'?


Doesn't that section go into more detail on this?


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## Pennyscraper (8 Oct 2008)

Alphabet said:


> Hi Clubman.  Thank you for your quick reply.  I have seen this, but how do you define 'available for work'?  My dad's priority is to get a new job and he is actively looking. 8 hours of study a week does not affect this in any way.  If he gets a job, he leaves the course.



If he was working as a night porter or as a nurse or any other potential kind of night work, he could do those courses and his job simultaneuously. I might be wrong, but it sounds like some young kid sitting in a welfare office with a narrow definition of what 'available for work' means. Push and push. You know you are right.


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## dave28 (11 Oct 2008)

quote from further down on clubmans link : 

"Courses of education, training or development

A person shall be deemed to be available for work while participating in a course of education, training or development approved by the Minister provided that

s/he is at least 21 years of age 
s/he has been in receipt of JA / JB for at least 6 months (156 days) 
s/he has given prior notice of his/her intention to participate in the course. "

It seems unfair but it looks like someone has to wait six months before they can use their initiative !


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## Swallows (11 Oct 2008)

Is he out at the course during daytime hours or is evening time?. If it's in the daytime then he might as well do a full time FAS course and get paid the allowance which takes him off U/A. He will get the same money plus a travel  expenses and a few Euro for food.


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## twofor1 (11 Oct 2008)

Alphabet said:


> Asides from this he is worried that if he is not signing on for this, he will not be entitled to his state old age pension at 65 as he will be short stamps. Is this accurate?


 
To qualify for a full contributory pension you would need an average of 48 or more contributions over your working life.

If you have an average of between 20 and 47 you would qualify for a 98% contributory pension.

A worst case scenario your Dads 32 years alone would easily put him in the 98% bracket.

Its all here www.welfare.ie/publications/sw112.html#4


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## Welfarite (14 Oct 2008)

Pennyscraper said:


> If he was working as a night porter or as a nurse or any other potential kind of night work, he could do those courses and his job simultaneuously. I might be wrong, but it sounds like some young kid sitting in a welfare office with a narrow definition of what 'available for work' means. Push and push. You know you are right.


 

There is the option of appealing the decision. Has he done this? What is the EXACT wording of the disallowance. From the info. you give, he is "not available for work" on two days per week (number of hours at classes is not relevant, it could 2 or 10, the definition of availability is be that for full day). But the four hours at other classes? what days? Same or other days? how many days?


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## Alphabet (14 Oct 2008)

Hi all, Many thanks for taking the time to reply.  He has reduced one course to 2 hours and moved the two courses to evening times so that he is free all day.  He has also made applications for several jobs. He has registed an appeal.  

I have spent a great deal of time on the welfare.ie site and I find it confusing.  I find Revenue.ie more straightforward, but unfortunately no help in these types of situations.  

For anyone else who is wondering about their pension contributions, what we have done is called the PRSI Central Records section in the Department of Social and Family Affairs and requested the records to be sent to us.  We have also requested a Pensions Forecast Pack from the Department of Social and Family Affairs in Sligo (Pensions).  You must be over 60 to get this.  The two together are supposed to clearly show you if you have enough contributions or need to make more etc...might help someone else.  

Many thanks again.


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## Welfarite (15 Oct 2008)

Make sure he continues to sign while awaiting appeal. Also, make sure he gets a new decision based on his new course arrangements! The disallownace was obviously based on the old arrangemets.


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