# 88yo county council pensioner, Entitled to the state contributory old age pension?



## angela59 (18 Nov 2010)

Hi all,

This is a bit of a unusual one but here it goes.  

An elderly relative of mine who has been retired for some time - 23 years has never claimed for his contributory pension. 

He was in full time employment until he retired at the age of 65 - he was a civil servant and I presume paying a stamp. 

He has his own private pension but never applied for a state pension.  It was only brought to my attention in the last week.  

My question is - am I wrong in assuming that he would have been entitled to a pension - if he is would it be too late to apply now and would he be entitled to back pay even though he retired some 23 years ago.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Angela59


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## pinkyBear (18 Nov 2010)

Hi there, I would say he could get back pay, but not on 23 years. In any claim I have dealth with in relation to the revenue - I could claim 4 years. This related to mortgage relief.. 
P..


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## fender (18 Nov 2010)

If he was a civil servant the chances are that he was not paying A class PRSI which entitles you to the contributory pension. The reason a lot civil servants don't pay A class is that they get a state pension anyway.

Maybe I am completely wrong here.......


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## angela59 (18 Nov 2010)

*State Pension*

Hi Fender,

He has his works pension which he gets paid every two weeks which he would have paid into privately and his work government would have contributed to.

Angela59


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## huskerdu (18 Nov 2010)

Can you clarify a few issues

What age is he ?
Did he retire from the Civil Service 23 years ago at 65, or at a younger age ?
I dont understand this statement, 

"He has his works pension which he gets paid every two weeks which he  would have paid into privately and his work government would have  contributed to"

What works pension is this ? Did he have another job since leaving the civil service ?
What is a work government ?


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## angela59 (18 Nov 2010)

Hi Huskerdu,

To answer your questions in rotation:
He is 88.
He retired from a County Council job at the age of 65 which is 23 years ago now.
He has a pension from the County Council - I am presuming he would have contributed from his wages towards this pension along with the County Council.
No he hasn't worked since leaving this job.
The latter question is a typo - it should have been government work. 

Hope that clarifies things.

Angela59


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## Black Sheep (18 Nov 2010)

As a county Council employee it is unlikely that he would have paid a *full* stamp/contribution and therefore may not be eligible for a State pension.
However if there are any doubts or if he worked in private employment at any time during his working life he should check for PRSI contributions.

He can request a copy of his contributions on-line from welfare.ie. Complete the the form on-line and they will forward a copy of all contributions in about 3 weeks


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## huskerdu (18 Nov 2010)

Thanks for the clarification. 

Just to be exact, he was a public servant, not a civil servant. I am not being pedantic, there can be a difference in pension entitlements between the two. 
As Black Sheep said, he should request his PRSI record.

It may be the case, that he paid no PRSI and got a government public service pension based on his years of service in the public service and gets no state pension, as it is already part of the public service pension that he is getting.


THere is a guide here to the difference PRSI classes, and what the entitlements are

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW106/Pages/3WhatarethePRSIclasses.aspx


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## angela59 (18 Nov 2010)

Thanks huskerdu and blacksheep for the replies.  It's my father-in-law so I myself am not to au fait with what type of stamp he paid but wanted to do a general check.  At least I have some information to go on now.

Angela59


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## ajapale (19 Nov 2010)

He almost certainly never paid a stamp and as such would not be entitled to the Contributory OAP.

Having said that I know of a former county council employee who retired early and spent several years behind the counter of a petrol station, paid full stamp and is now drawing the COAP and his occupational pension. This happened back in the early eighties.

Recent joiners to the public and civil service pay full stamp but their occupational pension scheme is coordinated or integrated. This means that the amount of the COAP is subtracted from their occupational pension and they draw the full COAP.

There is more about integrated and non integrated occupational pension schemes in the public sector pensions section of AAM.


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## becky (19 Nov 2010)

He may have paid a full stamp if he was a non officer /servant grade.  Grades like porters, general support always paid A PRSI in the local authorities and HSE.


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## angela59 (20 Nov 2010)

Thanks for the replies.  He was an Engineer for the County Council for his working life before retiring at the age of 65.  I looked at the link Huskerdu posted and it was informative - it depends on what class of stamp he was paying - I will try and see if I can pull up an old pay slip.

Angela59


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## becky (20 Nov 2010)

I'd be pretty sure he was an officer grade and therefore paid PRSI class D so has no entitlement to Social Welfare.

What I'm not sure about is you saying he paid into a private pension - is this not paying out?  

Are you sure he was not just paying 5% for pension and 1.5% widows and orphans which is the standard superannaution deduction for pre 95 officers.  After 40 years service he qualifies for a full pension which is 50% of final salary paid by the employer.


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## milic (20 Nov 2010)

Hi Angela59

It is very unlikely that your father in law is entitled to State/Retirement Pension from Social Welfare.

However he may well have been insured for Widows/Orphans and, if he is a widower, he may well be entitled to  Widowers Contributory Pension (now called a Survivors Prnsion).


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## angela59 (20 Nov 2010)

Hi Becky,

"Are you sure he was not just paying 5% for pension and 1.5% widows and orphans which is the standard superannaution deduction for pre 95 officers. After 40 years service he qualifies for a full pension which is 50% of final salary paid by the employer."  

No quite sure what he was paying - it's so long ago at this stage.  He does get a pension every second week - from the County Council.   I was assuming that when you pay PRSI you get a state pension - and I am glad of the clarifications so far.

Angela59


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