# ESB Bill jumped this month ?



## Wexfordman (20 Nov 2007)

Hi,

Got our ESB bill this morn, and its jupmed by almost 50%. We use the averaging of our bill, which means that they average out the cost over a 12 month period, and we pay a monthly dd based on this average. Every now and again the amount varies up or down. Cant remember what name the ESB give to this, but it saves us getting a bill every 2 months, and we get a more average one every month instead.

Anyway, the bill used to be about 114 euro pm, which in my opinion is high anyway. We live in a four bed detatched bungalow, never use the imersion, have electric showers and OFCH and Nightsaver electricity.. Have to admit, we have a bit of gadgetry in the house also, muiltiroom music system etc. My wife stays at home and minds kids, so the usage would be higher due to this also, as the house is rarely unoccupied.

Well today my bill jumped from 114 euro pm to 165 euro pm, and I cant understand why, especially when the bill also included the recent drop in price per unit.

Anyone know what I can do about this, I really dont believe this could be possible for it to increase by that amount, for us to be using 50% extra electricity than we normally do. My wife rang the esb to query it and they said the usual about leaving items on standby etc, and fair enough, but nothing to explain an increase in 50% usage. They said they would send out a booklet but that was about it.

Can I get them to investigate this further, as I dont beleive this could be my useage.
Wexfordman


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## PatC (20 Nov 2007)

Hi Wexfordman.
My latest ESB bill also took a big jump. I asked a few of my friends who also noticed a jump in their ESB bills,eventhough the price per unit is meant to have dropped. Just to say be careful about getting them to look into it further because if you get them to come out to read your metre as far as I know you will be charged an extra E60 on your next bill.


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## Wexfordman (20 Nov 2007)

Problem is that my next three bills are going to also be 165 euro, as this is how the averaging works. What I cant understan, is how on earth my ESB bill has suddenly jumped by 50%. Has there ever been a case of a fault resulting in high meter readings etc that anyonw is aware of ?
Wexfordman


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## sydthebeat (20 Nov 2007)

PatC said:


> Hi Wexfordman.
> My latest ESB bill also took a big jump. I asked a few of my friends who also noticed a jump in their ESB bills,eventhough the price per unit is meant to have dropped. Just to say be careful about getting them to look into it further because *if you get them to come out to read your metre as far as I know you will be charged an extra E60 on your next bill*.




is that true?? i know there is an online service where you can input your own readings, and im fairly sure theres no charge for that so perhaps that would be a better option. [broken link removed]

maybe the OP is actually using 50% more electricity during these winter months...??


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## Wexfordman (20 Nov 2007)

i take your point i would be using more electricity, but not 50% more. We have a combination of oil heating and a solid fuel stove for heating rads and water, and we never ever use the immersion, so none of my esb usage ip towards heating, except what ip required to fire angles up and run the pump etc.


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

Hi..just wondering what everyone thinks of an ESB bill for €320 (dec-feb) 2 bed apartment, one occupant! 
I nearly dropped last night when i read how much it was,considering my last (and first bill..only living there 4 mths) was €192, which i thought was high but ok! I have been using the night rate storage heaters, which are a pain as the only come on at 11pm and all the heat is wasted by the time i come home the next day, but try not to use the convector as i know its more costlier! I bought an electric blanket instead of using the convector heater in my bedroom, was away for nearly a week over xmas and have been careful about the amount of lights left on etc so a jump of nearly 70% has amazed me! Its a brand new apartment by the way and heating,lights,water etc is all electricity driven!


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## sydthebeat (22 Feb 2008)

swordshead said:


> Hi..just wondering what everyone thinks of an ESB bill for €320 (dec-feb) 2 bed apartment, one occupant!
> I nearly dropped last night when i read how much it was,considering my last (and first bill..only living there 4 mths) was €192, which i thought was high but ok! I have been using the night rate storage heaters, which are a pain as the only come on at 11pm and all the heat is wasted by the time i come home the next day, but try not to use the convector as i know its more costlier! I bought an electric blanket instead of using the convector heater in my bedroom, was away for nearly a week over xmas and have been careful about the amount of lights left on etc so a jump of nearly 70% has amazed me! Its a brand new apartment by the way and heating,lights,water etc is all electricity driven!



wow, my 3 bed semi with 6 persons (4 kids) doesnt come anywhere near that...... and thats with lights and TV on nearly all the time.
If you are on nightsaver you need to realise that:
1. you pay to be on nightsaver
2. you are penalised extra at day rate


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Was the bill estimated or based on a meter reading? Does it match up (more or less) with the meter readings now? What is your historical billing like? If you only come in at 11PM (when do you leave?) then storage heating might not be the best system for your needs. 

Is this post of mine of any use for comparison purposes?


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

sydthebeat said:


> and thats with lights and TV on nearly all the time.


Lights and _TV _are going to incur negligible costs compared to electric storage and water heating!


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## Welfarite (22 Feb 2008)

First thing, is it estimated? Secondly, if not, what did you change in your behaviour regadring use of electricity since last bill? 

Oh, and when you went away for that week at Xmas, did you leave any appliances on by mistake? Like the new electric blanket?

I don't understand your night storage heater use. I thought that storage heaters stored the at at the cheaper night rate to releease that heat during the day?


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## sydthebeat (22 Feb 2008)

point taken, and all my lights are CFL as well..... they actually make a huge differece to ESB bills.....


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

Im in around 7 most evenings and get the dregs that are left from the previous nights stored heat, so tried not to put the convector on unless it was really cold! My water is on a timer (night rate too) so never turn it on during the day! The bill doesnt appear to be estimated (no E) and the storage heaters were in place with the day/night rate meters all ready to go so dont see why id "be paying" for the night saver rate, its half the day rate! Its only my second bill ever as ive only lived there 4 months! I just cant fathom it as i didnt think i was being anyway excessive with my use!


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

Welfarite said:


> First thing, is it estimated? Secondly, if not, what did you change in your behaviour regadring use of electricity since last bill?
> 
> Oh, and when you went away for that week at Xmas, did you leave any appliances on by mistake? Like the new electric blanket?
> 
> I don't understand your night storage heater use. I thought that storage heaters stored the at at the cheaper night rate to releease that heat during the day?


I cut down on the convector heater use...and have them switched to the night storage, thats really all i did. 
When i went away absolutely everything was swithced off (except fridge of course)! It appears its the storage heating thats the problem by the looks of it, but the convector part is mad expensive during the day and the storage doesnt last enough till i get home so catch 22...


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Welfarite said:


> I don't understand your night storage heater use. I thought that storage heaters stored the at at the cheaper night rate to releease that heat during the day?


They do but they are leaking heat all day so if somebody is out all day and only back at 11PM they have missed out on most of the benefit.  In fact when they return they will actually be coming in when the heaters are starting the new overnight charge! You don't have a lot of control over storage heaters. The input and, more so in my experience, output controls are a bit hit and miss. And then if the weather changes suddenly they are not great (e.g. they charge up during a cold night but then the next day is warm leaving you roasting or vice versa).


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

swordshead said:


> I cut down on the convector heater use...and have them switched to the night storage, thats really all i did.
> When i went away absolutely everything was swithced off (except fridge of course)! It appears its the storage heating thats the problem by the looks of it, but the convector part is mad expensive during the day and the storage doesnt last enough till i get home so catch 22...


Depending on your usage patterns with the convection heaters this could actually work out cheaper than storage heating! Especially if you would otherwise be using the convection heaters after 11PM (winter) since they would be using night rate units anyway. How long would you have been using the convection heater(s? - how many) previously? If it was just for an hour or two at night then it may well be more cost effective for you to do this.

Do you have the immersion on night rate every night too? Storage and water heating will usually be by far the highest costs in a night rate house.


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If it was just for an hour or two at night then it may well be more cost effective for you to do this.


Yeh i think you may be right on that one!



Clubman said:


> Do you have the immersion on night rate every night too? Storage and water heating will usually be by far the highest costs in a night rate house.


Ok, will rethink the night water heating, possibly just heating it for an hour before bed and see if that makes a difference! Goin to be one lean week till pay day...


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## paulpd (22 Feb 2008)

I live in a one bed apartment and got the bill on Monday. Normally around E100 (bi-monthly) but was E197 this time around.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

paulpd said:


> I live in a one bed apartment and got the bill on Monday. Normally around E100 (bi-monthly) but was E197 this time around.


There is "normal" bill in my experience with a home on night rate electricity for water and storage heating. Look at my graph linked from the thread mentioned above. The bills are cyclical (unfortunately with an upward trend ) and vary, in particular between seasons (especially if you switch storage heaters off altogether from late spring to autumn/early winter), quite a bit. Basically the graph is like an upward sine wave in our case. I presume that the general pattern would be similar in any similar home.


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## Welfarite (22 Feb 2008)

Swordshead, as its only your second bill it's hard for you to see what your average usage will be yet. Were both bills actual readings then? (You know the way teh ESB work, only read every 4 months).

Seems pointless to have storage on all day when your out. I'd switch them off and use convector for a few months to see any difference. Weather won't be as cold from now on either. And switch to manual water heating ...you have electric shower? ... boil a kettle for washing up or put on immersion for half hour. What about washing machine? Full loads always? Dryers are expensive but it's an apartment adn you've no real choice?

I was in apartment on my own last year for a while and ESB was 40 every 2 months. Gas heating (on timer), and gas water heating, including shower (bill 100 bi-monthly). Didn't use dryer much.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Do what I did (maybe not to the same extreme of c. 15 years! ) and track your bills/usage so that you can see what the average/pattern is.


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## moondance (22 Feb 2008)

I'm also on only my second ESB bill in a one bed apartment. My first one (covered 2.5 months) was 75euro and the one I got this week (covered 2 months) was 95euro which I think is quite reasonable especially as my boyfriend moved in since January so the washing machine / dryer would be used a bit more. Luckily (considering posts above on storage heaters) I have gas heating and it also heats water on demand and my gas bills work out around 35euro per month which should be reduced in summer as the heating won't be used as much.


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

All points note thanks...i just didnt think i was being wasteful or excessive thats why im shocked! Have dryer but have used it probably once as have big clothes rack thing, storage heating will be off from now on along with night water heater..fingers crossed for next bill, i wont be able to afford food to cook on the electric hob at the rate im goin he he..


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

You could always track your meter readings daily to monitor your usage.


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## jnh (22 Feb 2008)

If most of the heat is gone from your storage heaters when you return in the evening, you're probably using them wrong. Make sure that, as you go to bed each night, you turn down the output fully. The output should then be turned on as needed. I find that the overnight charge leaves out enough heat that the living areas in my apartment are warm enough in the morning anyway, so don't usually turn on the output until I come home in the evening. There is usually plenty of heat stored up to keep the place warm until bedtime (when I turn off the output and the night heating cycle kicks in again).

If you're not using the output knob in this way, chances are that your input is turned up far higher than it needs to be in order to get some heat at the end of the day.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

The output knob just controls a small vent over the storage heater bricks. The heat will escape anyway, albeit at a slightly slower rate, when it is turned down. In my experience with several different storage heaters, and depending on prevailing environmental temperature, a storage heater with the output set to "off" will still lose most or all of its heat over the duration of a day and almost certainly by 11PM. Storage heaters are hit and miss and you don't really have that much control over them.


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## swordshead (22 Feb 2008)

jnh said:


> you turn down the output fully. The output should then be turned on as needed.


Output is at 1..it doesnt go any lower. It cant be switched off totally. Its rarely raised beyond 2.



jnh said:


> chances are that your input is turned up far higher than it needs to be in order to get some heat at the end of the day.


Input between 3 and 4 which is middle of the road...!


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## jnh (22 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> The output knob just controls a small vent over the storage heater bricks. The heat will escape anyway, albeit at a slightly slower rate, when it is turned down. In my experience with several different storage heaters, and depending on prevailing environmental temperature, a storage heater with the output set to "off" will still lose most or all of its heat over the duration of a day and almost certainly by 11PM. Storage heaters are hit and miss and you don't really have that much control over them.


 
I agree on the control aspect, but I have always found that there is enough heat remaining in the evenings that opening the output leads to a appreciable increase in the heat given out (and this is just the standard storage heater, not the ones with a convection heater boost). I generally have the input set quite low anyway (it never goes over a third of the way round). Recently I have had the input very low and haven';t had any need to open the output, and it's still giving out a pretty constant heat by bedtime.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> In my experience with several different storage heaters, and depending on prevailing environmental temperature...


Oh - and the level/quality of insulation in the house of course!


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## Auntie (22 Feb 2008)

Hi Swordshead; 
If your immersion timer is set up anything like mine, then I definitely wouldn't use it at night. My timer is sealed, and set to come on for about 6 hours during the night  That is around the same price as having it on for 3 hours during the day. 30 mins to an hour heats mine sufficiently (shower runs from it unfortunately so I have to put it on every day)

As for the storage heaters, I've learned a valuable lesson here I think. I have been using the convector part of mine in the Living Room, (I don't actually think that the storage part works) and along with the thermostat in the LRoom it comes on and off and I only use it for about 3 hours in the evening (it might only be actually heating for about ½ that time) so that is definitely cheaper than it storing up all night, only to be leaking out all day when I'm not there. So thanks all for those words of wisdom. [personally I hate electric storage heating. Had gas in my last place and I miss it ]


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Auntie said:


> Hi Swordshead;
> If your immersion timer is set up anything like mine, then I definitely wouldn't use it at night. My timer is sealed, and set to come on for about 6 hours during the night


What sort of time (make/model) is it? You could replace it with a more flexible one although...


> 30 mins to an hour heats mine sufficiently (shower runs from it unfortunately so I have to put it on every day)


... if that works  then maybe you don't really need night water heating?


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## csirl (22 Feb 2008)

Do you get your meter read every 2 months or is the bill usually based on estimates? If you're not getting the reading done regularly, your bill can become fiction over time & then when they do get around to reading, you can get a surprise.

Not sure how they do their estimates. When I last moved house, we bought a house that had been vacant for months. Missed the meter reader for the first bill and received a very high "estimated" bill - couldnt have been based on anything since meter had never been read. Then ended up getting free electricity for next 5 months after meter was read a couple of months later and number of units on the meter was way way behind the estimate.


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

If you do get an estimated bill that is wildly inaccurate then you can update the reading online and get a corrected bill issued. If it's not wildly inaccurate then things will balance out over time.


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## Auntie (22 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> What sort of time (make/model) is it? You could replace it with a more flexible one although...


 
It's a Horstmann Quartz E7. There is a 2-hour countdown on it too but I have never managed to get that working. I've never really tried that hard to work it out to be honest cos.......... 



ClubMan said:


> ... if that works then maybe you don't really need night water heating?


 
.......yeah, turning it on and off myself works grand for me most of the time. 

Although I had thought about changing the timer for one of those basic small ones, I might actually look into that now that you mention it, thanks.


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## DavyJones (22 Feb 2008)

got my bill after Christmas and was three times what it normally is, took a reading and rang them. they were 230 euro off the actual bill! they like to over estimate. ring with reading every time from now!


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## ClubMan (22 Feb 2008)

Auntie said:


> It's a Horstmann Quartz E7.


You can adjust the on/off times using cams inside the front panel but I think that 5 hours may be the minimum. 





> There is a 2-hour countdown on it too but I have never managed to get that working. I've never really tried that hard to work it out to be honest cos..........


Mine went faulty a while ago and I had to replace it.


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## newbuild05 (6 May 2009)

We have has some big esb bills recently as well.
I have been measuring our useage and we are currently using between 20 and 25 units of electricity a day, i think this is quiet high as niether of us are there from 9 to 6 and we have no kids. 
The house is a new build 2500sq ft and all appliances we have are 'A' rated, we would only have the dishwasher on maybe once a week, never use the tumble drier and only use the washing machine maybe 3 or 4 times a week. I cant understand how our bill is so high, we do have oil heating but that is only on for 2 hours at the monent and 3 to 4 during the winter months.
Do you think that 25 units a day is quiet high ?
Would changing all our light bulbs over to energy savers be beneficial ? We have changed a good few but have 12 downlighters in our kitchen. i dont want to go paying nearly 10 euro per bulb to change these if it is not gonna have much of an effect on the bill. 

I have been on to herself to make sure everything is turned off stand by as i know this has a big effect to.


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## Fnergg (6 May 2009)

newbuild05 said:


> We have has some big esb bills recently as well.
> I have been measuring our useage and we are currently using between 20 and 25 units of electricity a day, i think this is quiet high as niether of us are there from 9 to 6 and we have no kids.
> The house is a new build 2500sq ft and all appliances we have are 'A' rated, we would only have the dishwasher on maybe once a week, never use the tumble drier and only use the washing machine maybe 3 or 4 times a week. I cant understand how our bill is so high, we do have oil heating but that is only on for 2 hours at the monent and 3 to 4 during the winter months.
> Do you think that 25 units a day is quiet high ?
> ...




A look at the Energy Efficient House on the ESB website might be helpful:

[broken link removed]

Their appliance calculator is also very useful:

[broken link removed]

Yes, changing your light bulbs to energy savers would definitely be helpful. 

Take a meter reading at roughly the same time every day for a week or so. Subtracting one reading from another will give you your daily usage. Take note of what appliances you have been using. Try cutting down on some and see what impact it has on the usage. 

What do you do for hot water? If you use an immersion make sure it is not left switched on all the time. Turn it on about 30 mins before you need it and then switch it off.

How to read your meter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmPTlXqhzYc&feature=channel_page

Regards,

Fnergg


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## newbuild05 (7 May 2009)

Fnergg said:


> A look at the Energy Efficient House on the ESB website might be helpful:
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> ...


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## Fnergg (7 May 2009)

newbuild05;863265 Thanks for the reply Fnergg
 
i do monitor every day and we are using about 25 units in the winter and 20 in the summer. i must check out the appliances and see what they are using.
 
i had a feeling the lights might be a big factor said:
			
		

> I just checked my own usage and it averages at 20 units per day in winter and 15 in summer. That's without any major focus on energy saving except for having nearly all CFL bulbs, very careful use of the immersion, and making sure the washing machine is used only for full loads.
> 
> I have electric cooking and oil heating. I have a couple of low energy usage CRT TVs (the LCD/Plasma ones use a way more electricity - that said, I'd love to have one!). We make very sparing use of the tumbler dryer opting instead to dry clothes outside. The dishwasher is normally only used on Sundays when we we have several people over for lunch - all other times the sink is used. We do not have any stand-alone electric heaters (they should be avoided at all costs). Appliances are always switched off - never left on standby.
> 
> ...


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