# Mobile homes - are they subject to the new €200 tax on 2nd homes?



## sam h (25 Jun 2009)

Title says it all - do you have to pay on mobile homes? What about wooden chalets? 

Or is it just on bricks & motar?


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## sam h (26 Jun 2009)

> (_a_) includes—
> 20 (i) part of a building,
> (ii) a structure or erection of any kind and of any
> materials, or any part of that structure or erection,
> ...


​


> on land,
> ​​​​​




Well the legislation is pretty clear - mobiles & chalets etc all covered​


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## sartay (27 Jun 2009)

Apparently so....


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## Jister (28 Jun 2009)

If you don't own the land?


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## pansyflower (28 Jun 2009)

I wonder if this includes caravans? Or campervans?


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## MrKeane (28 Jun 2009)

pansyflower said:


> I wonder if this includes caravans? Or campervans?


 
Tents, Stables, Dog Kennels?

There will be some quare bending of the law on this one.


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## waom (29 Jun 2009)

sam h said:


> Title says it all - do you have to pay on mobile homes? What about wooden chalets?
> 
> Or is it just on bricks & motar?


 
You have to be the owner (which is defined in the legislation as the person entitled to receive rent if the property were let).

Most mobile home park owners do not allow mobile home owners to rent their mobile homes.

If you are not entitled to receive rent, I cannot see how you would be liable to pay the €200.


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## Binomial (29 Jun 2009)

waom said:


> You have to be the owner (which is defined in the legislation as the person entitled to receive rent if the property were let).




Can anyone point to a link to the bill so that we can determine for ourselves what is in it?

As the owner of a mobile home I have no objection in principle to a local authority charge. After all the council provide lifeguards, manage the blue flag scheme, regulate "stocking rates" on sites etc. 

However I think it should not be connected to a property tax/ second home tax.

Mobile homes are a depreciating asset (after about 7 years they have lost 90% of their value) (over 10 year and it will cost the owner to dispose of the van properly).

Mobile home owners rent the site under license from the landowner and have no security of tenure what so ever.

Mobile homes are generally only available to the mobile owner between May and September. (In reality June/July/August are the core months, May and September are shoulder months)

Most site owners do not allow sub letting of vans.

Mobile home owners pay over €2,000 per summer season to the site owner for privilege. (Some sites have meter charges for ESB and Water).


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## ajapale (29 Jun 2009)

Local Government (Charges) Bill 2009 [Seanad] (Number 41 of 2009)

Local Government (Charges) Bill 2009 [Seanad] as initiated and Explanatory Memorandum


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## Vinnie_cork (30 Jun 2009)

[broken link removed]

Will it be included or not? Labour seem to have changed their mind re mobile homes being included. 

After all the main difference is a Holiday house can be let out and make money where as a mobile home cannot not.


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## MrKeane (30 Jun 2009)

Vinnie_cork said:


> [broken link removed]
> 
> Will it be included or not? Labour seem to have changed their mind re mobile homes being included.
> 
> After all the main difference is a Holiday house can be let out and make money where as a mobile home cannot not.


 
You own your holiday home and the ground it sits on.
Mobile home owners rent the ground with no tenancy or other rights of any description
Mobile homes are only available for about 6 months of the year max.
Will travellers pay the tax by 2? - Once for the mobile and once again for the little houses beside the mobiles?


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## Vinnie_cork (30 Jun 2009)

I think it would be utter madness for mobile homes to be included in this tax. People should be encouraged to stay & holiday in Ireland.


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## clonboy (30 Jun 2009)

some good points on joe duffy today on this,, listen to the pod casts for those that missed it


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2009)

If you own a mobile home before your first bricks and mortar house/apt does this law mean that you are not a first time buyer?


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## Marion (30 Jun 2009)

Many people in the public sector/civil service pay a pension levy on income that is not pensionable. 

That doesn't make sense either. 

People will get used to it. 

Marion


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2009)

Do owners of mobile home parks pay rates?


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2009)

waom said:


> You have to be the owner (which is defined in the legislation as the person entitled to receive rent if the property were let).
> 
> Most mobile home park owners do not allow mobile home owners to rent their mobile homes.
> 
> If you are not entitled to receive rent, I cannot see how you would be liable to pay the €200.



Yes waom,

I think you are correct in your assertion.



			
				 2009 Bill said:
			
		

> “owner” means, in relation to a residential property, a person (other than a mortgagee not in possession) who, whether in that person’s own right or as trustee or agent for any other person, is entitled to receive the rent of the property or, where the property is not let, would be so entitled if it were so let;



So if the terms of the licence under which the site owner allows the mobile onto the site specifically preclude subletting by the mobile owner then ipso facto the mobile owner is not the "owner" as defined by the legislation.


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## gipimann (1 Jul 2009)

Heard a report on the radio this morning suggesting that Minister Gormley is about to do a u-turn on the mobile home/2nd property €200 levy, exempting them from payment.


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## Goatlady (1 Jul 2009)

My sister is living in a mobile year round, on a piece of land beside an old house of our dads that needs to be fixed up.   - no rent paid, etc.  She spent a fortune clearing the site, and getting the mobile, getting electric in, etc.  But the site is not in her name - is she going to be charged the tax?


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## Vinnie_cork (1 Jul 2009)

According to Dan Boyle (Green Party) on liveline today the Greens have asked for an ammendment to remove Mobile Homes. 

And to answer ajapale. Yes owners of Mobile Home Parks pay rates, Water, Bin charges as any commercial venture would pay them.

The annual fee also includes 21.5% Vat. And the owners and their employees pay income tax.


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## ajapale (1 Jul 2009)

Thanks vinnie,

The owners of caravan parks also have to abide by planning regulations, water quality regs where there is a private water supply, effluent regulations where there is private sewage treatment. Also many owners have been forced to reduce their stocking ratio on foot of LA regs resulting in some long standing licencees being kicked off the site.

Yes, I heard that rumour today that minister Gormley was about to do a u turn.

One wonders if this was a "smoke and daggers" operation to deflect discussion from some other aspect of the bill?

aj


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## Lex Foutish (2 Jul 2009)

These links will be of interest..........
Gormley does U-turn on mobile home tax - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie 
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gormley-does-uturn-on-mobile-home-tax-1799126.html
 [broken link removed] 
[broken link removed]


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## ajapale (6 Jul 2009)

This guy reminds me of the Japanese soldiers who crawl out of the Jungle 40 years after the battle is over!

[broken link removed]

Somebody should remind the "lucky" counsellor that mobile home site owners pay rates and as such do make a contribution to the local authorities.

Site charges are not up to €1,500 they are €2,000 and more.

New mobile homes cost between €30,000 and €40,000 but have no value after about 10 years. VAT is charged on the purchase of new mobiles.

Incidentaly demountable dwellings are specifically precluded from many grants such as energy and water grants. If they were taxable as a building/property would the owners be entitled to sei and water grants etc?


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