# Investments not performing well - need advice.



## KOW (13 Jan 2015)

Invested in a number of funds in 2007
zurich life--Balanced fund, 5star europe fund, high dividend equity fund
New Ireland--Triology S9. InnovatorS9, Evergreen S9
Irish Life property Portfolio

Roll on to 2014 
Money now in Zurich life balanced fund 50%  Zurich India equity fund 5%
New Ireland European equity fund  30%
New Ireland ftse 100 fund 15%
Cashed out of Property fund loosing 50% of 100k invested and bought land directly myself

To cut a long story short invested since September 2007 under the advise of very well known financial adviser. Over 7yrs later down 20% on what I considered to be a diversafied portfolio.
The new Ireland funds are still down about 25% on the amount I invested so I think I should stay put.
Up around 18% after tax on Zurich investment.

Want to stay invested now aged 52.
Should I invest directly in shares?
Should I stay where I am?
200k in DC pension
I own my own house no outstanding loan. Have a RIP worth 190k with a tracker of 160k with 12yrs left to pay. It pays for itself.
Wife in civil service 6yrs to retirement. No loans.
Just feel my investments are going no where.

All feedback welcome.


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## Steven Barrett (14 Jan 2015)

DCD said:


> Invested in a number of funds in 2007
> zurich life--Balanced fund, 5star europe fund, high dividend equity fund
> New Ireland--Triology S9. InnovatorS9, Evergreen S9
> Irish Life property Portfolio
> ...



You went very heavy into property at the height of the market. It fell 50% not long after you invested and hasn't fully recovered. And to compound your losses, the property element of the Trilogy fund was geared too. The bond part of that fund fell apart as well with Bloxham suing one of the big investment banks on the bonds they were sold. 

You weren't that diversified either. There would have been a lot of duplication between all the equity funds bar Innovator which are small cap. The High dividend fund and the equity portion of the Trilogy fund bought dividend paying stocks. The other funds would have bought similar equities too. 

You need to look at what you want the money to do for you and come up with a strategy to do it. What return do you need to achieve your goals? Is that return achievable? Is it within your comfort zone? 

Looking at your new investment mix, you have continued to have a high equity content strategy. Are you prepared to take the ups and downs of equity investment? If the crash of 2008 happened again, with that portfolio, you would lose -37.82%. Can you afford for that to happen to you? 

Then you have to look at the charges. How much are you paying as an annual management charge? 1% - 1.5% probably. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## monagt (14 Jan 2015)

SBarrett said:


> You went very heavy into property at the height of the market. It fell 50% not long after you invested and hasn't fully recovered. And to compound your losses, the property element of the Trilogy fund was geared too. The bond part of that fund fell + high equity content strategy. Are you prepared to take the ups and downs of equity investment? If the crash of 2008 happened again, with that portfolio, you would lose -37.82%. Can you afford for that to happen to you?
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie



At least there is some explanation for a worrying post!  
Property, Equity and Bond investments tanked..................not much else left except Cash on low interest rates with high DIRT and PRSI.


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## Steven Barrett (14 Jan 2015)

monagt said:


> At least there is some explanation for a worrying post!
> Property, Equity and Bond investments tanked..................not much else left except Cash on low interest rates with high DIRT and PRSI.



Going heavy into property and some of it with gearing is the reason the OP is still underwater. If he was in equities and bonds, he would have more than made his money back after the crash. 

Pre 07/08, property values had never fallen in Ireland and it was promoted as a medium risk investment. We have all seen the reality now and it belongs in the same risk category as equities, except it is much less liquid. 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## KOW (14 Jan 2015)

[New poster here. Thanks for the replies. Back in 2007 I went to a number of financial advisers regarding the investment of my money. Without getting into names as it was up to me ultimately where I put my money. The advisers I went to more or less advised me of the allocation I went for.
After the money I have lost [I earn the average industrial wage my wife earns about the same] I have learned the hard way regarding risk/reward
Nobody forced me to invest I just thought that the advisers I attended knew more than I did. Nobody knows where markets are going in the future.
Regarding going forward my goals are simple to keep investing and to try to acheive a couple of % north of inflation.
Zurich life I pay 1% charge
New Ireland 1% [Also get a few units added to funds as part of deal neg. at time] Below a little more detail in order to get accurate feedback.

Current situation  210k Zurich life [95%balanced 5% india equity[
                           160k new ireland [65% european equity 35%ftse 100]
                           20k [myself ryainair,CRH, smurfit Kappa]
                           100k in cash Nationwide UK etc
                           RIP woth 190k owe 160k tracker covering itslf 12 yrs left to pay
                            200k in pension DC
                            own home worth 350k
                            own land/sites worth 140k
I still think I am diversafied but making little on my investments.
Ultimate goal to be able to sit on my This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language in 8rs time age 60.
Wife retires in 6yrs on half wages civil service pension.

Thanks





[i QUOTE="SBarrett, post: 1415543, member: 81384"]Going heavy into property and some of it with gearing is the reason the OP is still underwater. If he was in equities and bonds, he would have more than made his money back after the crash.

Pre 07/08, property values had never fallen in Ireland and it was promoted as a medium risk investment. We have all seen the reality now and it belongs in the same risk category as equities, except it is much less liquid.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie[/QUOTE]



SBarrett said:


> You went very heavy into property at the height of the market. It fell 50% not long after you invested and hasn't fully recovered. And to compound your losses, the property element of the Trilogy fund was geared too. The bond part of that fund fell apart as well with Bloxham suing one of the big investment banks on the bonds they were sold.
> 
> You weren't that diversified either. There would have been a lot of duplication between all the equity funds bar Innovator which are small cap. The High dividend fund and the equity portion of the Trilogy fund bought dividend paying stocks. The other funds would have bought similar equities too.
> 
> ...


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## phanteon (15 Jan 2015)

Take a bow son that you didn't lose a lot more. Many very wealthy people lost everything through investing.


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## Jim2007 (15 Jan 2015)

SBarrett said:


> Looking at your new investment mix, you have continued to have a high equity content strategy. Are you prepared to take the ups and downs of equity investment? If the crash of 2008 happened again, with that portfolio, you would lose -37.82%. Can you afford for that to happen to you?



Gee, given that stocks recovered quicker than property in the last recession, just as the have done in the past, that is some generalisation.


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## KOW (15 Jan 2015)

Any feedback or comment from experienced investors on my portfolio been diversified enough? Do members feel I am on the right track?
At this point in time I am beginning to lean towards Brendans opinion regarding equity investment. Buy direct and hold long term.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jan 2015)

Hi DCD

The key issue here is that you have to pay tax on the funds which make a profit, but you get no relief for the funds which have made losses.  So your overall funds may well be down, but you end up paying exit taxes. 

So, you should keep the funds which are less than the entry cost until they recover back to the entry cost. Any increase from now to the entry cost, will effectively be tax free. 

After that, I think you should be invested directly in a diversified portfolio of equities. You have enough property at this stage.


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## monagt (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> After that, I think you should be invested directly in a diversified portfolio of equities. You have enough property at this stage.



Quick question Brendan, if you don't want to answer, its OK.

What's your opinion on the most economical way to buy equities in Ireland  (Irish Broker or UK Broker or US or EU , and which ones?)


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## KOW (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi DCD
> 
> The key issue here is that you have to pay tax on the funds which make a profit, but you get no relief for the funds which have made losses.  So your overall funds may well be down, but you end up paying exit ta
> 
> ...



I am certainly leaning in that direction Brendan. When I take a look at the tax I have to pay on profits made with Zurich life my blood boils. Especially when looses on other funds cannot be off-set. Buying into Unit linked funds is just making others rich, paying expensive management charges while still taking the same risk as buying directly myself. 
Will most probably cost average for my own sanity over the next while. Thanks Brendan.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jan 2015)

monagt said:


> Quick question Brendan, if you don't want to answer, its OK.
> 
> What's your opinion on the most economical way to buy equities in Ireland  (Irish Broker or UK Broker or US or EU , and which ones?)


This is discussed in other threads.


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## monagt (15 Jan 2015)

OK, thought you might have condensed and executed it.


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## Steven Barrett (16 Jan 2015)

Jim2007 said:


> Gee, given that stocks recovered quicker than property in the last recession, just as the have done in the past, that is some generalisation.


 
What is a generalisation?


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## monagt (16 Jan 2015)

SBarrett said:


> What is a generalisation?



Normally used as a "sweeping generalisation", for example, A statement which speaks in general terms without any reservation, so that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


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## Steven Barrett (16 Jan 2015)

monagt said:


> Normally used as a "sweeping generalisation", for example, A statement which speaks in general terms without any reservation, so that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.



Thank you all knowing Monagt  Now, can you tell me what part of my post was Jim claiming to be a generalisation?


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