# PTSB collections contacting tenants directly



## greencl (12 Jun 2012)

As an investment property owner, i got agreement with PTSB in writing last year that i will pay them Rent received in full and it is going okay for last 1 year, the rent covers 65% of full payment, on all three properties

 recently tenants called me that collections department from PTSB visited tenants enqiured (3 different visits in 2 months enquiring on tenancy agreements), also orally suggested to tenants to vacate as owner is in arrears and and owner is selling property. 

I called PTSB collections ( the collector assigned to my account) not to repeat such visits and discuss situation with tenants, he apologised but agreed that he now have tenants information who is paying how much and repayments i am making are in line with rents received.

1. Is PTSB violated data protection and privacy rules by discussing financial matters of customers with third party?
2.one tenant (who mis used such information) stopped paying rent now we are dealing with her to vacate, she wrote e-mail that PTSB is owner as house is mortgaged to PTSB, she is making an offer to buy the property at a pittance through PTSB 
can i use that as an evidence to further take legal actions on 1.
3. finally, is this just a tactical play of asset collections team to vacate tenants and make me fail on percentages of payment, so that when this goes to court they stand in better chance to repossess, or even to force me sell "assets" 

i want to hold on properties and pay as per guidelines till PI legislation comes,


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## Kine (12 Jun 2012)

Greebcl - I can't advise you on your situation but that is an eyebrow raising situation. 

Note to self - contact tenants to preempt anything like this on my end.


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## AlbacoreA (12 Jun 2012)

Thats pretty shocking. I would assume that someone cannot profit from a data breach like that, either the bank or the tenant.


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## rameire (12 Jun 2012)

you need to write a complaint to the bank straight away, outlining all that has happened,
also contact the date protection commissioner to find out if they have preceeded incorrectly, they should not be talking to another person regarding your dealings with the bank.
once you get all the details in, contact the central bank advising of this breach of privacy.
finally, kick that stupid tennant out, she cannot buy the property as it is not PTSB to sell.


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## greencl (12 Jun 2012)

a legal procedure is on to evict the tenant, but tenant will be out, sure when tenant's solicitor see this will just drop eveything and run away to take case...

 A letter is on its way to compliance officer in PTSB i will hold e-mail from tenant as an evidence in back pocket looking for initial reaction from senior management. it seems an incentive is devised to collections department to collect 'assets' and resell ASAP. he can collect bigger amount asap instead of collecting 65% month by month. also they can still come after me, 
yes, we are shocked as to how tenants behaviour changed , a social welfare tenant who is always late on rent, just stopped paying rent and offering us a 'price' using PTSB collectors as a lynch pin, she even knows  how much we remortaged original house for kitchen extension......and what interest rate.

just want to share the pain and caution on 'new' tactics of banks


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## lucozade (12 Jun 2012)

I'm shocked. Thats disgraceful behaviour by both your tenant and bank. I'd be looking to take a case against the bank for the loss of rent and the legal costs now been incurred as a result of their actions to kick the tenant out. If you were talking to the collector on the phone surely this is recorded so PTSB will be able to listen to this. Also you can request a copy under data access request.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Jun 2012)

> just want to share the pain and caution on 'new' tactics of banks



I would say that this is neither the new tactics of the banks, nor the new tactics of permanent tsb ( and I am a major critic of ptsb) 

I would say it's one collector who has grossly overstepped the mark. I would say that it puts you in a good position to negotiate a settlement with them as this must be very embarrassing for them.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Jun 2012)

> the rent covers 65% of full payment, on all three properties



Does this mean that you are paying the full interest and some of the capital? 

If so, I doubt if the PI legislation would have any relevance to you.


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## Sunny (13 Jun 2012)

greencl said:


> yes, we are shocked as to how tenants behaviour changed , a social welfare tenant who is always late on rent, just stopped paying rent and offering us a 'price' using PTSB collectors as a lynch pin, she even knows how much we remortaged original house for kitchen extension......and what interest rate.


 
Are you saying that the tennant is in receipt of rent supplement and is not passing it on to you? 

As for PTSB, I dread to think how many rules and possible laws that it is has broken. As Brendan says, I would kick up a huge fuss over that.


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## greencl (13 Jun 2012)

about to go out and drop a soft letter in post to complaince officer of mortgages, read the reviews of Brendan, changed my mind, now will address the letter to CEO and see what happens! honestly i dont think i can fight with big boys of financial service industry with the power they wield, but thanks now i will explictly seek compensation than just loss of rent and keep you all updated. i am any way burnt in my investments  and the behaviour of tenant through PTSB, they cannot make it more worse


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## Janet (13 Jun 2012)

Not sure if you also have some comeback with SW - would it be worth contacting them to let them know you haven't received rent for x number of months?  She must surely be still receiving payments from them.

Otherwise I'd definitely be trawling through the data protection legislation.  Your bank surely cannot discuss your financial situation with anyone else.


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## itsallwrong (21 Jun 2012)

As Janet points out - they have absolutely no right to divulge any of your details to anyone.
Raise hell with them


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## Broke in D15 (13 Jul 2012)

*What are the guidlines?*



greencl said:


> i want to hold on properties and pay as per guidelines till PI legislation comes,



What and where are the guidelines and what is "PI legislation" Google is only returning professional indemnity and personal injury. 
thanks


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## Time (13 Jul 2012)

Personal insolvency.


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## greencl (13 Aug 2012)

folks after 2 months of letters direct from CEO and investigation directed by CEO, got a letter that bank is not fault, "Collections did not contact tenant at all, though your particular tenant on her own contacted collections on numerous occassions to inquire about your mortgage status and to inform that property will be on sale, Bank never divulged any information" your tenant would have known your mortgage information as some letters would have sent to properties you owned and they *MAY* opened the letters and known information, but bank never divulged . if you are not satisfied please write to ombudsman. 
did any bank official in last 6 years in ireland ever accepted that they did any wrong. any advise if i should straight send in a claim through solicitor with evidences i have or if i should follow process through ombudsman, will ombudsman be strong enough to compel banks to sub mit transcripts between tenant and collections agent.


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## greencl (13 Aug 2012)

sorry last sentence should be read as transcripts of conversation(calls) between tenant and collections


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## Bronte (14 Aug 2012)

Does mortgage documentation go to your rented property or to you?

Did the collections agent contact more than one tenants, if yes can you get these tenant's to confirm in writing (you draft the letter) that the collections agent contacted them, and what private personal information the collections agent gave to the tenant. 

What do you mean about 'transcripts' between tenant and collections agent. You mean hearsay (conversations). I doubt either the tenant or collections keep records of what was said. 

You mention a solicitor, can you afford a solicitor, I would have thought a well document file to the ombudsman is the way to go, this costs you nothing, but you have to be very careful when you compile your complaint.

Social welfare tenant, be very very careful you are giving this person correct notice as per the PRTB. Immediatly contact social welfare rent department and confirm in writing by registered post that the tenant is paying no rent since x date. I would initially ring them so you find out who is in charge of the file, (I've had great assistance from social welfare officers in the past, they want to know if tenant's are not paying rent, are scamming etc)

It appears you are waiting for the new insolvency legislation. Interesting. How do you think it will help you. If you are paying all rent directly to the bank but it only covers 65% of monthly amount who is paying the 35%? If you are not paying the 35% would you not be better off letting the bank repossess? Also if you are not paying the 35% but owe tax, nppr and household charge on rent what are you going to do about this as to me it would be better to pay all rent after charges, tax and costs?


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## greencl (25 Aug 2012)

update : i wrote to data protection commissioner. i was asked to call back to discuss.

The clerical officer in data protection officer portarlignton is of the view in order to collect rightful dues from mortgage holders banks have legitimate right to discuss and disclose mortgage details and personal details of owners to tenants,what a disgrace ful response working in data protection office. 

as i was calling outside ireland and my name does not sound irish, the person was affirmative responding "that is our irish law sir, you should know laws of ireland, we have laws in ireland where banks in order to obtain their legitmate dues they have provisions to disclose details to third party, in your case which is your tenants". 

they just dont want to work: to take up complaint and investigate. cosy relationships between regulators and banks. i had a good quiet laugh and i know small investors will never get justice as we are not big builders


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