# IKEA refusal to refund debit card when cardholder not present, happened before?



## stillathome! (13 Jul 2008)

Hi,

I purchased items in IKEA in Belfast last month and when starting to move them in to my new home discovered that one of three packages was broken. 

To save me taking a days leave from work or giving up my weekend for what would only be 20 minutes in a shop my parents offered to take the broken package and other items, as I bought alternative/stronger furniture, back to IKEA Belfast along with a note from me confirming they had my permission to seek a refund on my behalf which had also been emailed to IKEA a few days beforehand, the original receipt and my Laser card.

IKEA refused to refund the payment to my card as I was not there in person, refused to assist in any way and also refused to accept a phone call from me or my bank to confirm my details. I rang their customer services office in the UK and was refused access to a supervisor and was told this was all legal under the Data Protection Act - they can't process a card if the cardhold is not present. If this is the case how do people buy online etc??!?!?

Called the Data Protection Office and the Consumer Agency and both agreed that there was no legal issue and it was obviously a company policy. Needless to say IKEA's story changed to it being 'Store Policy'.

My parents were still refused a refund, were threatend with removal from the store by security and the best solution IKEA would offer was a store card for me to bring up in person at another time for a refund or to use in their store. Needless to say after the way my parents were treated and I was lied to on the telephone there is no way I would shop with them again so only accepting a refund.

Has anyone come across something like this previously and am I correct that I am legally obliged to be present for a refund to be processed?

I am not prepared to make another journey up to collect what is rightfully mine - surely in this day and age it is possible to process a refund over the phone. Have sent an email to IKEA customer services to make a formal complaint but considering I had phoned (been told it was no problem) and emailed them, just for written confirmation to add to the name of the girl I got verbal confirmation from, a week in advance to ensure it was ok for my parents to return the items for me and they didn't contact me till after all of this happened I don't hold out much hope, especially considering that the girl in IKEA C. S. told me it was no problem for my parents to return the items on my behalf for a refund!

Sorry for the lengthy post but wanted to be sure I covered as much as possible for any replies/advice people can give.


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## John Rambo (13 Jul 2008)

I think you're overreacting. You travelled to a different jurisdiction in an effort to save money and are now moaning when one of the potential downsides comes back to bite you. Refunding money to a card is procedurally the same as taking money off a card. I find the fact that they won't let Uncle Tom Cobbley use someone elses card quite reassuring. There are always potential logistical problems with buying items "abroad" be it a shirt in Macy's or a couch in IKEA...get over it and drive up and get your refund. Think of all the time you're wasting...phone calls, sending your poor folks up to NI, posting here plus the stress and angst.


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## stillathome! (13 Jul 2008)

John Rambo said:


> I think you're overreacting. You travelled to a different jurisdiction in an effort to save money and are now moaning when one of the potential downsides comes back to bite you. Refunding money to a card is procedurally the same as taking money off a card. I find the fact that they won't let Uncle Tom Cobbley use someone elses card quite reassuring. There are always potential logistical problems with buying items "abroad" be it a shirt in Macy's or a couch in IKEA...get over it and drive up and get your refund. Think of all the time you're wasting...phone calls, sending your poor folks up to NI, posting here plus the stress and angst.


 
I understand what you are getting at however my items were not purchased to save money, they were purchased because they were the only items in months of looking that I had liked the look off. I have settled now for a different sideboard that I don't like as much which is more expensive but means if anything does go wrong I am dealing with a local retailer.

I do think you reply post is aggressive and rude - I was not asking for your opinon (negative or positive) on my shopping habits, I was asking if pepole had experienced problems with getting refunds when not present - the other background info was just to explain. Thanks

The reason for my annoyance with IKEA, other than the way they treated my mum, is that I contacted them in advance for this entire reason and was told there was no problem in someone else going up for the refund once they had my permission and receipt.


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## TreeTiger (13 Jul 2008)

John Rambo said:


> You travelled to a different jurisdiction in an effort to save money


Wow, that's a bit of a leap!
I've gone to Ikea a couple of times for specific items that I had not seen in the Republic and would be offended if it was assumed I just did this to save money.  When Ikea open in Dublin then I will obviously go there as opposed to Belfast.

OP, have you asked your bank what the position is?  I think this business of not giving a refund in your situation seems to be very odd, especially as the item was broken.  I had ordered doors from a company in Dublin earlier this year, it turned into a bit of a saga, and eventually the company said they could not get me the doors within any reasonable time period, so at that point I requested my money back.  My details were checked over the phone and the refund was processed straight away.  So it can be done!

You could also try contacting ECC Ireland, the European Consumer Centre.


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## g1g (13 Jul 2008)

Most shops don't give refunds on debit cards when owner is not present.  They don't ask for id though so your mother could have used your pin if requested but generally refunds don't require a pin, just a swipe of the card.  Unfortunately, these large shops tend to have one person saying one thing, and another saying a different thing.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Jul 2008)

John Rambo said:


> I think you're overreacting. You travelled to a different jurisdiction in an effort to save money and are now moaning when one of the potential downsides comes back to bite you. Refunding money to a card is procedurally the same as taking money off a card. I find the fact that they won't let Uncle Tom Cobbley use someone elses card quite reassuring. There are always potential logistical problems with buying items "abroad" be it a shirt in Macy's or a couch in IKEA...get over it and drive up and get your refund. Think of all the time you're wasting...phone calls, sending your poor folks up to NI, posting here plus the stress and angst.



John Rambo,

Your post is indeed aggressive.  Your reference to  'Uncle Tom Cobbley' is totally unnecessary in light of the fact that the OP spoke of their parents returning the goods, which by the way the parents had offered to do and is therefore none of your business when you make reference to 'sending their parents'.

Your use of the phrase 'get over it' is yet again offensive and totally unnecessary.

You do not mention the fact that the customer service representative in IKEA had confirmed that there was no problem with the parents returning the goods.

The only one causing stress around here is yourself and and as  confirms 'avoid causing offence' or in my opinion further unnecessary stress.


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## brodiebabe (14 Jul 2008)

g1g said:


> Most shops don't give refunds on debit cards when owner is not present. They don't ask for id though so your mother could have used your pin if requested but generally refunds don't require a pin, just a swipe of the card. Unfortunately, these large shops tend to have one person saying one thing, and another saying a different thing.


 
2nd this.  In hindsight it might have been better for your mum to have kept quiet about her identity when making the return.


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## Diziet (14 Jul 2008)

TreeTiger said:


> ...
> I've gone to Ikea a couple of times for specific items that I had not seen in the Republic and would be offended if it was assumed I just did this to save money.  ...



Nothing wrong with saving money. This is a financial site after all!


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## John Rambo (14 Jul 2008)

sueellen said:


> John Rambo,
> 
> Your post is indeed aggressive. Your reference to 'Uncle Tom Cobbley' is totally unnecessary in light of the fact that the OP spoke of their parents returning the goods, which by the way the parents had offered to do and is therefore none of your business when you make reference to 'sending their parents'.
> 
> Your use of the phrase 'get over it' is yet again offensive and totally unnecessary.


 
I don't agree. I most certainly was not being aggressive, and to suggest so is offensive to me. My point was to do with the security of debit and credit cards. Anyone other than the cardholder is indeed 'Uncle Tom Cobbley' and I for one am happy that stores don't deviate from policy in this regard. The OP subsequently pointed out they were not going to IKEA to save money, but rather to get specific items. My 'get over it' remark was in relation to the OP's own time...for someone worried about time spent going to get the refund themselves they shouldn't waste to much time now worrying or being annoyed. Sorry if anyone got the wrong end of the stick.


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## stillathome! (14 Jul 2008)

brodiebabe said:


> 2nd this. In hindsight it might have been better for your mum to have kept quiet about her identity when making the return.


 
She knows that and it is what annoys her too. She thought they would need the pin number so rang me for it while standing at the counter. They wouldn't have needed it and she was annoyed as it would have been plain sailing otherwise.



John Rambo said:


> I don't agree. I most certainly was not being aggressive, and to suggest so is offensive to me. My point was to do with the security of debit and credit cards. Anyone other than the cardholder is indeed 'Uncle Tom Cobbley' and I for one am happy that stores don't deviate from policy in this regard. The OP subsequently pointed out they were not going to IKEA to save money, but rather to get specific items. My 'get over it' remark was in relation to the OP's own time...for someone worried about time spent going to get the refund themselves they shouldn't waste to much time now worrying or being annoyed. Sorry if anyone got the wrong end of the stick.


 
There is no security involved with IKEA, or most other shops, as I have NEVER been asked for supporting ID when presenting my debit or credit cards for purchases or refunds. IF my mum hadn't said anything the refund would have gone on to my card so IKEA's security argument doesn't really hold up.

My "own time" is 50/50 with the cost element too... with rising fuel prices the 320 km round trip costs more each week and that together with having to take a day off work at my own expense (no annual leave left) is a bit too much for what I think IKEA are being to rigid about, especially as their customer service rep told me over the phone it was ok for them to return the items on my behalf and the email recieved after the event also said that they could return it without any problem. 

As the items have been taken back from IKEA it is only a matter of a couple of minutes in the shop itself as I just have to go to the returns desk, hand over my credit note and laser card, get the refund and return to Dublin. 

I've sent my email complaint off to the Head of Ikea UK so will see if or when I ever get a response.
Thanks for the input guys.


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## sandrat (14 Jul 2008)

do ikea not open on the days you are off?


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## tink (14 Jul 2008)

hi, i think ikea did the right thing here, your mum announced that she was not the cardholder and fraud is a big risk for companies now so obviously if a csr is made blatently aware of this they will have to act on it! They wouldn't have noticed otherwise, I agree.  They are just doing their job to be honest. You will not get any joy from UK head office as they did the right thing. Also it was your choice to go to Belfast to ikea so no one made you so you can't really moan about the price of petrol etc ! It is just a disadvantage of buying things away from home unfortunatley....


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## sandrat (14 Jul 2008)

I remember getting the head eaten off me in my student days in dunnes by a woman who was using her husbands credit card to buy something. I noted that the signatures didn't match and she was like of course they don't match it's my husband's card and I said well I can't let you use it. She went nuts and managers were called etc but in the end I was right because it might have been anyone's card.


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## stillathome! (14 Jul 2008)

tink said:


> Also it was your choice to go to Belfast to ikea so no one made you so you can't really moan about the price of petrol etc ! It is just a disadvantage of buying things away from home unfortunatley....


 
I was actually on a holiday in Belfast which was why I shopped in IKEA at the time.


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## shelflife (18 Jul 2008)

there is no security issues in making a refund to the same card that the product was bought on.
had it been to a different card then ok but not to the same card.


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## John joe (19 Jul 2008)

TreeTiger said:


> You could also try contacting ECC Ireland, the European Consumer Centre.


 

Dont even go there as they are the biggest waste of tax payers money. I had made a complaint to them about a car website that claimed they had buyers for my car. I canceled my contract within the 7 day cooling off period yet EEC tried to say that I didnt have a case as I was ouside the 7 day period. They are totally usless and the office is full of foreign nationals that speak very little english.


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## stillathome! (20 Jul 2008)

Went back to IKEA this weekend as a friend was heading to Drogheda so i just paid the petrol money for a trip on up to Belfast with her.

In and out of IKEA in 5 minutes with my money refunded to me. I also returned everything else I had bought to get a full refund of my trip. I had only bought the other items because I was in the shop so no loss to me by returning them.

I did check, and lodge a complaint, with the British office of fair trading and was told that as I live outside the juristiction of the retailer it should have been acceptable to give my parents a cheque for my refund if they were not able/prepared to refund my debit card as IKEA would have had to make the cheque payable to me so that should have covered their security fears.

All over and done with though ended up paying nearly the same amount in petrol over the couple of trips as I did for the main item I had bought which was faulty.

Will never shop in IKEA again and it is not due to their products or prices but purely down to their customer service of lack there off and the inaccurate information they gave.


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## thundercat (22 Jul 2008)

uiop said:


> I understand your annoyance at being so powerlessness to solve this problem long distance in another jurisdiction but I'd be even more offended by rip off prices for inferior products in the Republic than by company drones simply following the procedure for which they are trained and legally obliged  to follow. By all means make a fuss and write letters etc and draw attention to faults in the system but bureacracy shouldnt' be taken personally.



Absolutely agree! Don't lose out on great prices and designs/products you won't find down here -you mentioned you bought something because you couldn't get it down here- they were following a procedure and were wrong to give you the go-ahead in the beginning. I worked in retail when I was in college and there's no way I would have done it either-too risky when the person has blatantly said that it's not their card! Whoever told you that you could do it is the person in the wrong.


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## mcaul (22 Jul 2008)

With debit cards, it is not possible for a store outside the juristiction the card is issued to give a refund when the person is not present.

A pin number must be entered.

Its the banking system rather than the retailer that has the rules.


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## stillathome! (23 Jul 2008)

thundercat said:


> Absolutely agree! Don't lose out on great prices and designs/products you won't find down here -you mentioned you bought something because you couldn't get it down here- they were following a procedure and were wrong to give you the go-ahead in the beginning. I worked in retail when I was in college and there's no way I would have done it either-too risky when the person has blatantly said that it's not their card! Whoever told you that you could do it is the person in the wrong.


 
That is where my main annoyance comes from, I was not sure about a refudn being allowed and that is why I rang and emailed and was told on each occassion that it was no problem, and yes I did explain it was going on to my debit card. I would have declined my parents offer of their travelling up if I had any doubts but the fact that I had two names from people in Customer Service led me to believe it was possible.

Nothing can stop me from shopping if I want to 




mcaul said:


> With debit cards, it is not possible for a store outside the juristiction the card is issued to give a refund when the person is not present.
> 
> A pin number must be entered.
> 
> Its the banking system rather than the retailer that has the rules.


 
A pin number was not required when I was present at the weekend - they just swiped the card.

Also they never asked me to confirm any details or ID so for all they knew it still wasn't me!

The refund went through on my card today so all happy again


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