# Calling women "Girls"



## Purple (12 Jun 2017)

Why is okay to call a grown woman a girl?
I often here people, usually other women, referring to women as girls; "The girl in the shop" "Ask the girl at the desk". I have never seen someone point to a man and say "ask the boy over there".
Does that bother women?


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## Firefly (12 Jun 2017)

I wouldn't worry about it boy


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## jjm (12 Jun 2017)

Jobs for the boys, the boys in green,


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## Purple (12 Jun 2017)

jjm2016 said:


> Jobs for the boys, the boys in green,





Firefly said:


> I wouldn't worry about it boy


I was asking the girls!


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## dub_nerd (13 Jun 2017)

Women refer to each other as girls all the time. There are often no definite rules about usage, except among those looking to be offended.


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## Leper (13 Jun 2017)

My wife is in her 60's and has her girls night out every so often and she refers to  her female friends (all over 60 too) as girls. I do too. "Hello Girls" opens doors.


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

I was just wondering if it bother any of the women posters here. It seems it doesn't.


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

Leper said:


> My wife is in her 60's and has her girls night out every so often and she refers to  her female friends (all over 60 too) as girls. I do too. "Hello Girls" opens doors.


There is a difference between the collective and the individual though. "Going out with the lads" is one thing but if you were referred to as "the lad over there" in work when you were a mature adult would you be okay with it?


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## thedaddyman (13 Jun 2017)

Only a Jackeen could ask a question like this . Go down to Paradise, aka the People's Republic, aka the Real Capital, or Cork as it is also known and try saying "how's it going woman?" and see what the reaction is


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

thedaddyman said:


> Only a Jackeen could ask a question like this . Go down to Paradise, aka the People's Republic, aka the Real Capital, or Cork as it is also known and try saying "how's it going woman?" and see what the reaction is


This is an Irish website. I am not that familiar with foreign customs.


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## Firefly (13 Jun 2017)

Unless under the age of 16 or thereabouts I always say "lady". Like if I'm asking my small fella to pay for something in the shop I will ask him to "pay the lady".


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Like if I'm asking my small fella to pay for something in the shop I will ask him to "pay the lady".


You're very vulgar!


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## Ceist Beag (13 Jun 2017)

and sure don't they all have a lovely bottom...


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

Maybe Harry Enfield had it right!


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## Firefly (13 Jun 2017)

Purple said:


> You're very vulgar!



Start 'em young


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## Purple (13 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Start 'em young


Sorry, were you talking about your kid?


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## Firefly (13 Jun 2017)

Purple said:


> Sorry, were you talking about your kid?


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## Sue Ellen (13 Jun 2017)

Always a 'girl' at heart, only looking into mirror confirms not so or when the old age aches and pains kick in


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## cremeegg (14 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Unless under the age of 16 or thereabouts I always say "lady".



The word is woman. "Lady" is considered unacceptable by many feminists, as much if not more than "girl" See Marylin French's "The Women's Room" for the argument in full.


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## Firefly (14 Jun 2017)

cremeegg said:


> The word is woman. "Lady" is considered unacceptable by many feminists, as much if not more than "girl" See Marylin French's "The Women's Room" for the argument in full.



Really? I would have thought the vast majority of females would prefer to be called a lady than a woman. Can any of the ladies(!) confirm?


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## Sue Ellen (14 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Really? I would have thought the vast majority of females would prefer to be called a lady than a woman. Can any of the ladies(!) confirm?



Possibly old fashioned at this stage but 'lady' does appeal more


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## Firefly (14 Jun 2017)

Sue Ellen said:


> Possibly old fashioned at this stage but 'lady' does appeal more



Always a lady to us Sue Ellen


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## Purple (14 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Always a lady to us Sue Ellen


Absolutely!


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## Dan Murray (14 Jun 2017)

Speak for yourselves Firefly and Purple!

_....Sue Ellen is frequently kind
And she's suddenly cruel
She can do as she pleases
She's nobody's fool
And she can't be convicted
She's earned her degree
And the most she will do
Is throw shadows at you
But she's always a *woman* to me_


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## Sue Ellen (15 Jun 2017)

Firefly, Purple and Dan Murray 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCCG2Z9LoVk


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## mathepac (16 Jun 2017)

In the Wesht they take it to the limits with "girleen" and indeed "ladeen".  How do the "burds" and "fellahs" feel about those?


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## S.L.F (16 Jun 2017)

cremeegg said:


> The word is woman. "Lady" is considered unacceptable by many feminists, as much if not more than "girl" See Marylin French's "The Women's Room" for the argument in full.



Yeah well feminists don't even recognise which gender is which


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## Thirsty (16 Jun 2017)

> I was just wondering if it bother any of the women posters here. It seems it doesn't


Yes it does, and it isn't any better when women do it.  Referring to an adult male African-American as 'boy' will get you into trouble; I feel the same way about 'girl'.



> feminists don't even recognise which gender is which


I've no idea what this remark is supposed to mean?


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## Purple (16 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Yes it does, and it isn't any better when women do it.  Referring to an adult male African-American as 'boy' will get you into trouble; I feel the same way about 'girl'.


I think I'd feel the same way if I was a woman. It just sounds demeaning, especially in a work context.


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## thedaddyman (19 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Yes it does, and it isn't any better when women do it.  Referring to an adult male African-American as 'boy' will get you into trouble; I feel the same way about 'girl'.
> QUOTE]
> I can tell you one thing, go to Washington DC with a broad Cork accent and when an African American in a hotel asks, "how are you today sir?" and you respond, "not too bad boy, and yourself" and see what the reaction is.


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## blueband (19 Jun 2017)

Its amazing how PC we have become in this country, everyone watching every word they say in case it offends someone else


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## Purple (19 Jun 2017)

blueband said:


> Its amazing how PC we have become in this country, everyone watching every word they say in case it offends someone else


 I do't see anything wrong with not being needlessly offensive. I don't think that means we are watching every word we say.


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## blueband (19 Jun 2017)

I just don't see how referring to a female as a girl, woman, lady ect is offensive, would it be considered offensive to refer to a male as a man?


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## Purple (19 Jun 2017)

blueband said:


> I just don't see how referring to a female as a girl, woman, lady ect is offensive, would it be considered offensive to refer to a male as a man?



In a work environment would it be okay to refer to your male colleague as a boy?
"I'll get the boy who works for me to do that"
"The boy from accounts will deal with your query"


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## Thirsty (19 Jun 2017)

> referring to a female as a girl.....refer to a male as a man?


And there you have it in a nutshell!


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## becky (19 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> Really? I would have thought the vast majority of females would prefer to be called a lady than a woman. Can any of the ladies(!) confirm?


I don't like the term lady. Why? Donno.

When I'm going out, it's with the girls, not the ladies. My friend from Limerick goes out with the Women.

My mom still refers to her children as the boys or the girls, the oldest is 49, youngest is 40.

At work I roll eyes at emails from 'very' senior female managers who start the email with Ladies. 

It's Dear all or Colleagues. But obviously I never correct them.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2017)

blueband said:


> Its amazing how PC we have become in this country, everyone watching every word they say in case it offends someone else



Being an MRA (Men's Rights Activist/advocate) such as I am no matter what I say I'll get hate spewn at me on the internet.

"You dare not mention equality without saying women are oppressed"....which is where people like me clench our fists and start throwing truth bombs around the place.

The boys and girls thing is nonsense.

My wife goes out with the girls, I go down to the boys.

People need to stop this babying they have going on regarding language.


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## Thirsty (19 Jun 2017)

"boys and girls thing is nonsense."

Nonsense to whom?

It's certainly not nonsense to me.

The words we use reflect the attitudes we hold.

Be careful of your thoughts, because your thoughts become your words, your words become your deeds, and your deeds become your character.


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## Purple (20 Jun 2017)

S.L.F said:


> Being an MRA (Men's Rights Activist/advocate) such as I am no matter what I say I'll get hate spewn at me on the internet.
> 
> "You dare not mention equality without saying women are oppressed"....which is where people like me clench our fists and start throwing truth bombs around the place.
> 
> ...


I'll go out with the lads but I certainly wouldn't refer to a man in a work context as a boy.
Do you really not see the difference?


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## thedaddyman (20 Jun 2017)

Purple said:


> I'll go out with the lads but I certainly wouldn't refer to a man in a work context as a boy.
> Do you really not see the difference?



And I'll go out with the lads too but if my boss asks me how was my weekend I'll probably say "not too bad boy" or words like that with my Cork twang and not think anything of it, and neither does he.

To me it is not always the word that is important, it is the context and tone in which the word is used. If I'm doing a pitch to senior execs in a major company, I'll tailor my language appropriately and differently to if I'm having a conversation with people I've known for years.


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## Ceist Beag (20 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> "boys and girls thing is nonsense."
> 
> Nonsense to whom?
> 
> ...


I disagree with this.



thedaddyman said:


> To me it is not always the word that is important, it is the context and tone in which the word is used. If I'm doing a pitch to senior execs in a major company, I'll tailor my language appropriately and differently to if I'm having a conversation with people I've known for years.


I completely agree with this. Some people might struggle to find the right word sometimes or might just be in the habit of using a certain word. I certainly wouldn't take offence at the use of a word based on the word alone. Context and tone are important in conveying the intent.
As blueband said, I think we're getting far too PC on words and in being offended where no offence was intended. I would much prefer that people feel they can speak freely without having to second guess whether a certain word might cause offence or not.


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## Thirsty (20 Jun 2017)

Times change and we must change with them.

Once upon a time calling an African-American a certain name was considered acceptable.  It's now considered so offensive that it is only referred to as the N-word whilst (somewhat ironically) other curse words are happily printed and voiced in newspapers and cinema, that word won't be.

There once used to be a toy doll, the first part of the name was Golly...  - we don't have those any more.

Black and White Minstrels were once an acceptable song and dance entertainment, in fact they were even used many decades ago as tokens to promote Lyons Tea.  These days 'blackface' is considered racist.

Female professionals such as doctors, pilots, were once defined by gender 'lady Doctor', 'male nurse'... we now view that as unnecessary and sexist.

So no, I don't believe you have the right to 'speak freely' and not be concerned about causing offence.


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## Ceist Beag (20 Jun 2017)

Scenario 1
Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
Jane: "I'm good Mike but I'd prefer if you didn't call me girl."
Mike (said with a wink): "Ah sorry, no bother at all girl, I mean Jane!"
Mike and Jane laugh and move on.

Scenario 2
Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
Jane: "Well I've never been so insulted." 
Jane storms off in a rage.
Mike: "WTF is her problem..."

What world do you want to live in....


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## Thirsty (20 Jun 2017)

> What world do you want to live in


One where Mike and Jane have mutual respect for each other.


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## thedaddyman (20 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Times change and we must change with them.
> 
> Once upon a time calling an African-American a certain name was considered acceptable.  It's now considered so offensive that it is only referred to as the N-word whilst (somewhat ironically) other curse words are happily printed and voiced in newspapers and cinema, that word won't be.
> 
> ...



And yet, women play Ladies Gaelic Football, ran by the LGFA (Ladies Gaelic Football association)

and African Americans freely use the N word themselves.

Of course we should be concerned about causing offence but I do wonder if we perceive offence occurring when none actually was intended or perceived by the recipients


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## Purple (20 Jun 2017)

I started this thread and should have been clearer about my question. It was really to do with using the phrase in a work or formal context.
Talking about a girls/boys night out etc is, I thought obviously, not an issue.


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## Ceist Beag (20 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> One where Mike and Jane have mutual respect for each other.


That would be scenario 1 then...


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## Thirsty (20 Jun 2017)

> That would be scenario 1 then...


We evidently disagree on what constitutes respectful behaviour.  However, I don't see much value in continuing here, so I'll bow out at this point.


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## Leo (20 Jun 2017)

thedaddyman said:


> Of course we should be concerned about causing offence but I do wonder if we perceive offence occurring when none actually was intended or perceived by the recipients



I think that's why it's phrased 'taking offence'. People often choose to take it when none was offered or intended.


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## Thirsty (22 Jun 2017)

I said I'd bow out of this discussion, but the suggestion that this is a respectful exchange has stayed in my mind, and whilst it might not make a whit of difference, but maybe it'll make some folks think again.



> Scenario 1
> Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
> Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
> Jane: "I'm good Mike but I'd prefer if you didn't call me girl."
> ...



Jane clearly states what she would like to happen.
Mike, repeats the very thing he was asked not to say and then winks and laughs, a gesture that undermines his apology and seeks to undermine Jane's request.

The writer states that both parties laugh; no they don't... Mike laughs, again why?  what was funny?  Jane smiles or laughs along to be polite, but as she walks away the smile disappears faster than Melania Trump at the inauguration and she may well mutter under her breath.

So if as you're reading this, you're thinking "what the heck, all about a silly word?"  Then you've missed the point, it's about a man negating and disregarding what is being said by a woman; which is why this is not a respectful exchange.


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## Ceist Beag (22 Jun 2017)

Thirsty you are coming at this from one angle only. In my mind, Jane knows Mike well. She knows he is someone who might not be eloquent but she knows he's a decent chap who means well. When he replied with his apology he did it in a light humoured way and Jane knew this. To take offence at what Mike said would be to assume that Mike meant to offend.
Sometimes it can be disrespectful to take offence where none was intended and in a harmless scenario like the one I portrayed I think it would be ludicrous to take offence but hey maybe I'm just an ignorant man.


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## Thirsty (22 Jun 2017)

one more time...


> he replied with his apology he did it in a light humoured way


Why?  Why not just apologise? Why add winks and laughs?

Jane didn't take offence, she stated clearly what she wanted.


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## Ceist Beag (22 Jun 2017)

Who knows Thirsty, maybe he's the type of lad who laughs his way through life, maybe that was his way of letting Jane know he meant no offence by it. Just while we're at it, Mike would have no need to apologise at all in this scenario. If no offence was taken by Jane and she stated her preference then it could have been left at that. Your language is interesting here in that you're expecting an apology from Mike and Jane stated clearly what she wanted. Seems a bit confrontational for such a harmless conversation no?
Getting back to the point here, which is the one made by thedaddyman "To me it is not always the word that is important, it is the context and tone in which the word is used.".


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## Thirsty (22 Jun 2017)

"you're expecting an apology from Mike "
I didnt say that. In yr extract, mike says sorry.

The only response needed was to agree to what he was asked to do and if he felt the need to apologise then do so in a straightforward way.


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2017)

God help the makers of AI robots that's all I'll say


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## Purple (22 Jun 2017)

Here's a scenario;
A woman is in an electrical goods shop with her ten year old daughter. 
They are being helped by a male shop assistant in his 50's.
The woman has her daughter bring the products they are buying to the till and in from of the shop assistant says to her daughter, "Now dear, give the money to the boy and he will give you the change".

Do you think it is appropriate to refer to a man in his 50's as a boy? Does it put him in a subservient and degrading position?
If the answer to those questions is yes then why is it okay to refer to a female of the same ago and position as a girl?


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## Thirsty (29 Jun 2017)

> God help the makers of AI robots


Current research is indicating that AI is tending towards learning human bias also.

For those who appear to find respectful interaction difficult - review the latest interaction between Trump and an Irish reporter for a classic example of disrespect in a professional environment.


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## Firefly (29 Jun 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Current research is indicating that AI is tending towards learning human bias also.



That's my point. God help them when it comes to "how" to say things rather than "what" to say!


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## Purple (29 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> That's my point. God help them when it comes to "how" to say things rather than "what" to say!



Just imagine if they also have psychological and visual assessment abilities, one could imagine them asking for a persons name by saying something like "Please tell me the name of the fat ugly narcissist with dandruff".


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## Firefly (29 Jun 2017)

Purple said:


> Just imagine if they also have psychological and visual assessment abilities, one could imagine them asking for a persons name by saying something like "Please tell me the name of the fat ugly narcissist with dandruff".



The leader of the free world!


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## Purple (29 Jun 2017)

Firefly said:


> The leader of the free world!


I don't think Angela Merkel would speak like that.


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## odyssey06 (2 Jul 2017)

I don't think it's being used in a sexist way... I think it just reflects that there's clearly some missing 'informal' words to compare with e.g. bloke, guy, chap, geezer, lad, gent. I would say "the guy\bloke\chap on the counter will sort you out" ... but, for want a better word "the lady on the desk will sort you out", even though it seems too formal. Lady is the equivalent of gentleman, not 'bloke'.


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## hfp (5 Jul 2017)

It all depends on context and knowing your audience.  I have a team of 8 in work who range in age from about 8 years younger than me to about 20 years older, but it's a close-knit group and everyone knows the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable.  I have been known to refer to them as girls and boys and occasionally my children!

I suspect that there are previous posters that would be absolutely horrified by this, but I know my staff and they give as good as they get!!

In a more formal situation however eg management meetings or dealing with outside parties I wouldn't dream of using casual language.


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## S.L.F (12 Jul 2017)

One of the biggest problems is people just waiting to take offence at the slightest thing (usually completely indoctrinated university students).

Even in Canada now it could be a crime if you call someone by the wrong pronoun, how crazy is that!

The reality is that most of the people who call women 'girls' are other women.


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## Thirsty (13 Jul 2017)

"The reality is thatmost of the people who call women 'girls' are other women"

Fascinated to know where you sourced the data to support this assertion?


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## S.L.F (13 Jul 2017)

Thirsty said:


> "The reality is thatmost of the people who call women 'girls' are other women"
> 
> Fascinated to know where you sourced the data to support this assertion?



Well I don't call women girls, all the guys I know call women,...well 'women' not girls

My wife does the 'girl' thing and I have two sisters and a mother who frequently call their friends "the girls".

Anyway what the hell does it matter, the only people who seem to care about this nonsense are completely indoctrinated liberal students or people who are so misogynistic they think that women will act like children if they are called girls.


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## Thirsty (13 Jul 2017)

Your post is a perfect example of why it matters.


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## S.L.F (13 Jul 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Your post is a perfect example of why it matters.



Treating women like adults seems to disturb you.

I'll bet you are a feminist.

Maybe a course of videos watching people like Janice Fiamengo, Janet Bloomfield, Karen Straughtan (my personal favourite), Elizabeth Hobson, or a string of other *strong* women who know this is a non-issue like most White middle class feminist causes.

It is hardly any wonder feminism is under attack from other strong people who believe women are not as fragile as feminists want them to believe.

Equality means treating people (no matter which of the two genders that exist) like adults.


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## Ceist Beag (14 Jul 2017)

Just an aside to the original post in this thread. I never really noticed before this thread but have noticed quite a bit since that I regularly get called boy by friends around town. It doesn't bother me in the slightest (and the fact I didn't even notice it before this thread just shows how little it matters to me).


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## Purple (18 Jul 2017)

Ceist Beag said:


> Just an aside to the original post in this thread. I never really noticed before this thread but have noticed quite a bit since that I regularly get called boy by friends around town. It doesn't bother me in the slightest (and the fact I didn't even notice it before this thread just shows how little it matters to me).


Does your boss call you boy in work?


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## Ceist Beag (19 Jul 2017)

Purple said:


> Does your boss call you boy in work?


No - that's not what the original post was about either though!


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## Purple (19 Jul 2017)

Ceist Beag said:


> No - that's not what the original post was about either though!


Yes, it was. The examples I gave in the first post were all work related.


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## Ceist Beag (19 Jul 2017)

Purple said:


> Yes, it was. The examples I gave in the first post were all work related.


Fair enough, that wasn't how I read your question but if that's what you meant then you can ignore my reply above.

You probably should retitle the thread to "Boss calling female employees girls" though Purple as most posts on this thread refer to examples outside the workplace so if your question is specifically related to women being referred to as girls by their boss then I'm not the only one who missed this in the original post.


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## Purple (19 Jul 2017)

Ceist Beag said:


> Fair enough, that wasn't how I read your question but if that's what you meant then you can ignore my reply above.
> 
> You probably should retitle the thread to "Boss calling female employees girls" though Purple as most posts on this thread refer to examples outside the workplace so if your question is specifically related to women being referred to as girls by their boss then I'm not the only one who missed this in the original post.


The question is about women being called girls in a work environment. That could be by by members of the public or their boss or fellow employees.


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## blueband (19 Jul 2017)

Ok, If anyone out there has the answer please put us all out of our misery........what should women be called in the workplace????


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## Thirsty (19 Jul 2017)

Their name perhaps?


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## Purple (19 Jul 2017)

blueband said:


> Ok, If anyone out there has the answer please put us all out of our misery........what should women be called in the workplace????



What should men be called in the workplace? 
How about not calling them 'boy'?
I'll ask again; Would any man out there be happy if their employer or a customer or a workmate in a formal environment referred to them as a boy? I know I wouldn't. I'm just asking why some women seem to think it's okay to be referred to as a girl in similar circumstances.
My mother always referred to women in shops as girls, i.e. "Ask that girl if they have it in your size", even though the "Girl" in question could be 50.
There's no way she's refer to a man in his 50's as a boy.


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## blueband (19 Jul 2017)

Thirsty said:


> Their name perhaps?


Perhaps, but human nature being what it is I'm sure there are some that would find even that offensive!
nowt stranger than folk as they say.


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## Purple (19 Jul 2017)

blueband said:


> Perhaps, but human nature being what it is I'm sure there are some that would find even that offensive!


Why?


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## blueband (19 Jul 2017)

Because there are people who seem to make a lifetime career out of taking offence to just about anything. I like to think they are in the minority, but at times I wonder!


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## Purple (19 Jul 2017)

blueband said:


> Because there are people who seem to make a lifetime career out of taking offence to just about anything. I like to think they are in the minority, but at times I wonder!


I'd be offended if a colleague referred to me as a boy in a formal work context and I certainly don't make a lifetime career out of taking offence to just about anything.


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## ali (2 Aug 2017)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpo...ar-adult-women-described-as-girls-455912.html
Article on the subject here. I don't agree really. I do get the theory but really think it's a cultural thing. I don't think it's meant in a derogatory way but a "night out with the women" doesn't really work!
I fully agree that language is important and how it's used shapes our thinking but I don't think the intention with this is to reduce women. It may be my age though and a sign of how everything evolves


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## jjm (2 Aug 2017)

ali said:


> http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpo...ar-adult-women-described-as-girls-455912.html
> Article on the subject here. I don't agree really. I do get the theory but really think it's a cultural thing. I don't think it's meant in a derogatory way but a "night out with the women" doesn't really work!
> I fully agree that language is important and how it's used shapes our thinking but I don't think the attention with this is to reduce women. It may be my age though and a sign of how everything evolves


I would say there are lots of Police woman who would have a night out with the girls when the return to work the would  not be referred to as Police girls,


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## ali (2 Aug 2017)

jjm said:


> I would say there are lots of Police woman who would have a night out with the girls when the return to work the would  not be referred to as Police girls,



Technically they would be police officers not police women which is exactly what it should be. I do understand the sentiment of the article and really feel having grown up hearing about "firemen" "businessmen" "policemen" and how limiting that is; I get the notion of language shaping our views. For some reason I just don't get that feeling with being referred to as a girl.

On the contrary, I sometime get referred to as the "lady" or addressed as "Ladies" on a group email and it makes my toes curl. It's right up there with "panties" as a cringey word!


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## jjm (2 Aug 2017)

ali said:


> Technically they would be police officers not police women. I do understand the sentiment of the article and really feel having grown up hearing about "firemen" "businessmen" "policemen" and how limiting that is; I get the notion of language shaping our views. For some reason I just don't get that feeling with being referred to as a girl.
> 
> On the contrary, I sometime get referred to as the "lady" or addressed as "Ladies" on a group email and it makes my toes curl. It's right up there with "panties" as a cringey word!


It is only cringey if people allow themselves to be addressed that way.If some one referred to a police woman as a police girl I don't think man or woman or police man police woman would be happy seeing them addressed as such,


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## Purple (2 Aug 2017)

ali said:


> For some reason I just don't get that feeling with being referred to as a girl.


If you were in a work environment and your boss referred to you as a girl in a formal business meeting would you be okay with that?
The old one of referring to a shop assistant as a girl, even if she is in her 50's or 60's, creates an impression that the man or men working in the shop must be more important. After all, how could a girl be in charge of a man?
If you wouldn't refer to a female judge as a girl then you shouldn't refer to a female shop assistant as a girl.
What friends call each other in a social setting is of course a totally different matter.


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## Firefly (2 Aug 2017)

Purple said:


> After all, how could a girl be in charge of a man?



You haven't met my small one


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## Purple (2 Aug 2017)

Firefly said:


> You haven't met my small one


Are you being smutty again!!??


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## ali (2 Aug 2017)

Purple said:


> If you were in a work environment and your boss referred to you as a girl in a formal business meeting would you be okay with that?
> The old one of referring to a shop assistant as a girl, even if she is in her 50's or 60's, creates an impression that the man or men working in the shop must be more important. After all, how could a girl be in charge of a man?
> If you wouldn't refer to a female judge as a girl then you shouldn't refer to a female shop assistant as a girl.
> What friends call each other in a social setting is of course a totally different matter.



You're right of course. I don't disagree with any of that.I would certainly not refer to an older woman as a girl. I'm not in my 50's or 60's and I probably look younger than I am but I don't doubt that I would object to the term if I was older. Equally, I wouldn't use the term if I was speaking to a female in a work situation whom I don't know personally.
In relation to work meetings, I'm in a reasonably senior position and would never be referred to as a girl by male colleagues but as it's a women heavy environment, we'd frequently refer to each other with the term.
I guess the moral of the story is it depends who is using the word and their relative position / relationship to you.


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## ali (2 Aug 2017)

jjm said:


> It is only cringey if people allow themselves to be addressed that way.If some one referred to a police woman as a police girl I don't think man or woman or police man police woman would be happy seeing them addressed as such,



I agree completely. Official positions should be gender neutral - officer being the case in point. No need for a Ban garda /  chairman. CEO or equivalent is better.


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## Firefly (2 Aug 2017)

ali said:


> No need for a Ban garda /  chairman. CEO or equivalent is better.



You can have your Ban Gardai and the rest but they'll always be Air Hostesses to me


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## Purple (2 Aug 2017)

Firefly said:


> You can have your Ban Gardai and the rest but they'll always be Air Hostesses to me


Ah, now that's all changed; sure they even have women taxi-men now!!


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## Leo (3 Aug 2017)

ali said:


> No need for a Ban garda /  chairman. CEO or equivalent is better.



Chairman and CEO are two different roles, both offices can and at times are held by the same person, but they're not interchangeable.


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## ali (3 Aug 2017)

Yes, I know. Chairperson often used when it's a woman but Chairman often when it's a man. Chairwoman is a mouthful. 
Probably a better descriptor needed. 
I remember when Carmencita Hederman was Lord Mayor and was asked if the title was sexist and she replied something like:
If I was to change that, I'd have to call myself, Lady Mayor Car - people - cita Heder - person.


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## odyssey06 (9 Aug 2017)

Well one thing I am defo against is this habit of describing someone (sadly usually a victim of a certain type of crime) as a 'young girl' even though they are well into their teens. 
They are either a girl or a young woman, they are not 'young girls'.


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