# does willie o'dea have to read a resignation speech in dail?



## NOAH (19 Feb 2010)

or does he just slope away to the back benches with his pay off??

noah


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## Betsy Og (19 Feb 2010)

didnt he already write a letter ...... the less this "victim" says at the moment the better. Draft in Peter Power to keep the Limerick Minister - at least he's a bit more clean cut than our barroom brawler......


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## mathepac (19 Feb 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> ... he's a bit more clean cut than our barroom brawler......


... gunman ...


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## chlipps (19 Feb 2010)

speech may be misintrepreted through the soup strainer


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## carpedeum (19 Feb 2010)

O'Dea is still refuting all allegations in his resignation text as if the tape recording doesn't exist! The arrogance is astounding.

We get the taoisaigh, TD's and councillors we deserve.  Bertie is still idolized and will probably be proposed for Dublin mayor or President. Michael Lowry continues to be elected. Why do we continue to support and elect people of low ethics. Is it a relection of ourselves?

On a wider level people are pleading with the Bishop of Galway to stay on as bishop. We accept the now totally flawed infallability of the Pope. We take tax increases, job losses, mismanagement of our pension funds and national economy. We watch on as the bigshots in the banks and FÁS ride into the sunset with bags of our gold.

What is wrong with the Irish psyche?

No, Willie O'Dea will just dust himself down, get a 20,000 majority at the next election and because of Fine Gael incompetence (do the likes of Enda Kenny, Brian Hayes and Richard Bruton deserve to or have the ability to govern us?), 
will probaby return as a minister or junior minister after the next election. I'm just looking forward now to hearing the 
pleadings for the innocent victim Willie O'Dea on the Joe Duffy Show!


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## MrMan (19 Feb 2010)

carpedeum said:


> O'Dea is still refuting all allegations in his resignation text as if the tape recording doesn't exist! The arrogance is astounding.
> 
> We get the taoisaigh, TD's and councillors we deserve.  Bertie is still idolized and will probably be proposed for Dublin mayor or President. Michael Lowry continues to be elected. Why do we continue to support and elect people of low ethics. Is it a relection of ourselves?
> 
> ...



Willie O'Dea has proven to be an intelligent politician of a long career and has suffered as a consequence of his own actions. I don't see why he cannot make a comeback.


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## starlite68 (19 Feb 2010)

lets hope his type never makes a comeback.


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## Sunny (19 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Willie O'Dea has proven to be an intelligent politician of a long career and has suffered as a consequence of his own actions. I don't see why he cannot make a comeback.


 
Thats depressing.


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## MrMan (19 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Thats depressing.



Don't get so hung up on it then, do you really feel that irish politics is a much better place without Willie o'Dea?


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## Sunny (19 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Don't get so hung up on it then, do you really feel that irish politics is a much better place without Willie o'Dea?


 
Do I think Irish politics is a much better place without someone who smears a political opponent with lies, who questions the integrity and professionalism of a young reporter, who signs a sworn affidavit that contains incorrect information despite being a trained barrister, who drags the gardai into the debate and then does not promise to co-operate with any Gardai investigation into said leak?

Yes I do. Just as it would be better off without Beverly Flynn, Michael Lowry, John O'Donaghue, Bertie Ahern etc etc etc

Just because he has done stuff for Limerick does not make him one of Ireland's great Statesmen. Let him join Limerick council....


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## Slash (19 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Just because he has done stuff for Limerick does not make him one of Ireland's great Statesmen. Let him join Limerick council....



I keep hearing about how WOD works tirelessly for the people of Limerick, how he works 7 days a week, is in his constituency office at all hours. But what has he actually achieved for Limerick?

With the greatest of respect to the hardworking, honest people of Limerick who just want do the best for their families, Limerick used to be a beautiful city, and under WOD's watch, it has become a place of high unemployment, high crime, poor social housing (some of it is literally incredible). What has WOD done to correct that?

Four weeks before the election, WOD announced a 1.7 billion regeneration programme, and claimed personal credit for the whole thing. We know what happened to that.

Predictably, WOD's supporters will say it is all because "that crowd up in Dublin" won't make funds available.

What has WOD actually done?


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## micmclo (19 Feb 2010)

carpedeum said:


> Michael Lowry continues to be elected. Why do we continue to support and elect people of low ethics.



Why you ask?
Michael Lowry is more effective then the FG backbencher or the FF junior minister (well actually that got taken off her ) who also represent the area.

People vote for who will represent their area first, country comes second.


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## MrMan (20 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Do I think Irish politics is a much better place without someone who smears a political opponent with lies, who questions the integrity and professionalism of a young reporter, who signs a sworn affidavit that contains incorrect information despite being a trained barrister, who drags the gardai into the debate and then does not promise to co-operate with any Gardai investigation into said leak?
> 
> Yes I do. Just as it would be better off without Beverly Flynn, Michael Lowry, John O'Donaghue, Bertie Ahern etc etc etc
> 
> Just because he has done stuff for Limerick does not make him one of Ireland's great Statesmen. Let him join Limerick council....



So before this episode you thought he was a good politician? The fact that he is so well regarded in Limerick does seem to irk those outside of the city.


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## MrMan (20 Feb 2010)

Slash said:


> I keep hearing about how WOD works tirelessly for the people of Limerick, how he works 7 days a week, is in his constituency office at all hours. But what has he actually achieved for Limerick?
> 
> With the greatest of respect to the hardworking, honest people of Limerick who just want do the best for their families, Limerick used to be a beautiful city, and under WOD's watch, it has become a place of high unemployment, high crime, poor social housing (some of it is literally incredible). What has WOD done to correct that?
> 
> ...


I would still regard Limerick as a beautiful city and is one that is still well regarded by people who actually come here rather than read the headlines. If you talk to any group, each individiual will be able to tell you about how O'Dea helped them on an occassion, so he does manage to get things done. On a national level, given the correct portfolio we might just get to see him show the rest of the country aswell.


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## starlite68 (20 Feb 2010)

apart from micheal mcdowell...willie o,dea was 0ne of the most arragont people in the government.........thank god these two are out of office!


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## Betsy Og (20 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> I would still regard Limerick as a beautiful city and is one that is still well regarded by people who actually come here rather than read the headlines.



As someone who works in it, never lived in it, but its been my nearest city for most of my life, I dont know that Id regard it as beautiful. In college I recall West Limerick people actively disassociating themselves from it, so whatever about those actually from it, most others could take it or leave it.

On a positive note the refurb of the city centre (Bedford Row, Thomas Street etc) is great, and the renewed emphasis on the Shannon is a good idea. The problems I see are 1) no reporting of anything good from Limerick - bar the rugby - but what else is there to say??, 2) an overly defensive approach by public representative, everything is the meejah's fault. If they could deliver a good news story I'm sure it would be taken up.

Re Willie, Dell, Shannon, Re-generation ..... not exactly flexing his muscles is he??


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## Capt. Beaky (20 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Willie O'Dea has proven to be an intelligent politician of a long career and has suffered as a consequence of his own actions. I don't see why he cannot make a comeback.


Although he survived for a long time in the murky waters of Dail Eireann, Willie was first and foremost a Me Feiner. He has done little for the people of Limerick except give them the impression that he has. A Napoleonic complex, coctailed with a concietful, condescending and puerile personality, he is now able to talk about others that have done far worse than him and survived. He was derelict of his duty in not bringing these things to the fore when he discovered them. If the Garda inquiry throws anything up, it should be dealt with - not pushed out of agenda because he jumped. It would also, by his allusion, mean that there are other criminals in there. As regards the OP's question? Hopefully not. Unless he gets a Saul on the road to Damascus/Dunlop on the road to Mountjoy feeling and reveals other criminality.


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> As someone who works in it, never lived in it, but its been my nearest city for most of my life, I dont know that Id regard it as beautiful. In college I recall West Limerick people actively disassociating themselves from it, so whatever about those actually from it, most others could take it or leave it.
> 
> On a positive note the refurb of the city centre (Bedford Row, Thomas Street etc) is great, and the renewed emphasis on the Shannon is a good idea. The problems I see are 1) no reporting of anything good from Limerick - bar the rugby - but what else is there to say??, 2) an overly defensive approach by public representative, everything is the meejah's fault. If they could deliver a good news story I'm sure it would be taken up.
> 
> Re Willie, Dell, Shannon, Re-generation ..... not exactly flexing his muscles is he??


 I'm not from Limerick myself, but like any city it depends on how you approach it when viewing it. Approaching from Thomond Park or the Shannon Bridge and you have beautiful views of the city against the backdrop of the Shannon. There is a great park by the Art Gallery that is often forgotten, amazing cathedrals, Thomond Park, North Circular Road etc.
As regards those that could take it or leave it, that is pretty much par for the course between country and city people, both viewing the other with disdain or some form of ignorance, kind of like 'I hate Dublin' but 'I've never actually lived there'.


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## Caveat (22 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Do I think Irish politics is a much better place without someone who smears a political opponent with lies, who questions the integrity and professionalism of a young reporter, who signs a sworn affidavit that contains incorrect information despite being a trained barrister, who drags the gardai into the debate and then does not promise to co-operate with any Gardai investigation into said leak?
> 
> Yes I do. Just as it would be better off without Beverly Flynn, Michael Lowry, John O'Donaghue, Bertie Ahern etc etc etc
> 
> Just because he has done stuff for Limerick does not make him one of Ireland's great Statesmen. Let him join Limerick council....



+1

What was the outcome of the altercation between him, his security and a punter in a Limerick bar? Allegedly throwing his weight around - remember that?

In addition to the above, always thought he was a BS-er, a greasy clown and none too bright myself.


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2010)

Caveat said:


> +1
> 
> What was the outcome of the altercation between him, his security and a punter in a Limerick bar? Allegedly throwing his weight around - remember that?
> 
> In addition to the above, always thought he was a BS-er, a greasy clown and none too bright myself.


Seems to be a common enough opinion, but it is also a common opinion that we should have qualified people in the Dail, as he is a qualified accountant and barrister I would presume that makes him qualified and at the very least bright. Anyway he is gone now so lets see who we get in his place.


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## Sunny (22 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Seems to be a common enough opinion, but it is also a common opinion that we should have qualified people in the Dail, as he is a qualified accountant and barrister I would presume that makes him qualified and at the very least bright. Anyway he is gone now so lets see who we get in his place.


 
He hasn't gone from the Dail. Why do Irish people accept such low standards when it comes to ethical behaviour and corporate governance at the highest levels of business, politics and even the Church? 
We wonder how we have ended up in this mess and our refusal to demand the highest standards of behaviour from the so called leaders of this Country is one of the main reasons. 
To see ministerial colleagues line up and defend his actions was pitiful. I don't expect them to publically crucify their colleague and friend but I despair that not one person who is supposed to running this Country had to moral courage to come out and admit his behaviour was unacceptable and his resignation was the right thing for the Country. It was the exact same with John O'Donoghue.


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> He hasn't gone from the Dail. Why do Irish people accept such low standards when it comes to ethical behaviour and corporate governance at the highest levels of business, politics and even the Church?
> We wonder how we have ended up in this mess and our refusal to demand the highest standards of behaviour from the so called leaders of this Country is one of the main reasons.
> To see ministerial colleagues line up and defend his actions was pitiful. I don't expect them to publically crucify their colleague and friend but I despair that not one person who is supposed to running this Country had to moral courage to come out and admit his behaviour was unacceptable and his resignation was the right thing for the Country. It was the exact same with John O'Donoghue.



Maybe its from an understanding that to get anything done at the highest levels at least, people need to be ruthless and often the rules are bent and sometimes broken.


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## Sunny (22 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Maybe its from an understanding that to get anything done at the highest levels at least, people need to be ruthless and often the rules are bent and sometimes broken.


 
That is a ridiculous viewpoint and is a perfect example why we are in this economic crisis.


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## Bronte (22 Feb 2010)

Willie O' Dea operates in a tough environment.  There is something strange about this story.  Where was the damage to Quinlivan if Willie said it only to a reporter and the reporter never published it.

Limerick is not by any stretch of the imagination a pretty city.  It has had down thought the years many major social issues that have never been sorted out.  As FF have been in government most of the time since the state began then they are to blame for that.

O'Dea is an intelligent man and by all accounts a very hard working politician for Limerick and he has always defended Limerick.  He made a serious error of judgement and being a barrister he should not have denied what he said in the affidavid.  Whether that justifies the loss of a capable  minister (one of the few we 'had') I don't know.


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## Sunny (22 Feb 2010)

The reporter did publish what Willie O' Dea said.

I seriously don't understand why people seem unable to see being capable at your job doesn't excuse you from acting to the highest ethical standards when you hold such an important postition. The bishops who transferred all the abusers around the place were capable bishops I am sure. Charles Haughey was a very capable minister as was Bertie Ahern. Sean Fitzpatrick was a very capable banker. Rody Molloy was a capable civil servant over a long period. Dr. Michael Neary was a capable doctor. 
Too many people at the top of Irish society have operated in an ethical vacum for far too long where they thought the usual rules don't apply to them. This is a large part of what brought this Country to its knees.


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> That is a ridiculous viewpoint and is a perfect example why we are in this economic crisis.



Are you naive enough to believe that politics across the globe and big business is carried out in a fair and by the book manner? Naivity had more to do with our economic crisis than my viewpoint.


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## DB74 (22 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Maybe its from an understanding that to get anything done at the highest levels at least, people need to be ruthless and often the rules are bent and sometimes broken.


 
So what Willie O'Dea did was in the best interests of the country was it?

Or was it in the best interests of Willie O'Dea maybe?


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## Howitzer (22 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Are you naive enough to believe that politics across the globe and big business is carried out in a fair and by the book manner? Naivity had more to do with our economic crisis than my viewpoint.


The naivety was on the side of the electorate, the average Joe. There was no naivety at the top. Merely greed and incompetence.

The "we're all crooks, so why can't I have a bit?" was the attitude at the heart of our economic crisis.


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## Sunny (22 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Are you naive enough to believe that politics across the globe and big business is carried out in a fair and by the book manner? Naivity had more to do with our economic crisis than my viewpoint.


 
Better than your 'anything goes because that's how things get done' attitude...

Want to spend hundreds and thousands of taxpayers money on first class travel and hotels? Work away.......
Want a little help getting that planning permission sorted? No worries....
Want your financial insititution to enter into transactions that help to hide information from investors? No problem with that.....
Want to protect the good name of your church by not co-operating with civil authorities? Of Course!.....
Want to slander political opponents and then try worm your way out of it? Sure we would expect nothing less....
Want to drag our State Broadcaster into court, lose and then only pay half the costs but still be member of a Dail? You will be welcomed back.
Want to treat taxpayers money like it is your own little piggy bank to pay for your lifestyle? Sure the suckers will never know....
Want to help yourselves to huge pay and bonuses while the taxpayer bails out your company? Ah sure you get things done....


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Better than your 'anything goes because that's how things get done' attitude...
> 
> Want to spend hundreds and thousands of taxpayers money on first class travel and hotels? Work away.......
> Want a little help getting that planning permission sorted? No worries....
> ...



Did I say that all of those things were ok? 
You should consider politics given your propensity for spin.


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## NOAH (22 Feb 2010)

hello, spin!!!   is not what he just posted the TRUTH.

I would love to meet any politician who has done anything good for this country.

O'Dea should have been forced to read his resignation speech in the Dail in the very same seat where he shillied and shallied the day before.

The guy had a 19,000 majority and still tried to ...  how insecure is that and he was Minister of Defence.

noah


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## MrMan (23 Feb 2010)

NOAH said:


> hello, spin!!!   is not what he just posted the TRUTH.
> 
> I would love to meet any politician who has done anything good for this country.
> 
> ...



Yes Noah, they were the truth, but they didn't have a bearing as a response to my post, hence 'spin'.


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## Sunny (23 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Yes Noah, they were the truth, but they didn't have a bearing as a response to my post, hence 'spin'.


 
Actually..........



MrMan said:


> Maybe its from an understanding that to get anything done at the highest levels at least, people need to be ruthless and often the rules are bent and sometimes broken.


 
You can use that line to excuse any sort of behaviour


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## Caveat (23 Feb 2010)

I'm still gobsmacked that this buffoon is a barrister.  Never knew that and can barely believe it.


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## Latrade (23 Feb 2010)

I actually like Willie. From my point of view, gombeen politicians are a feature of the electoral system, we're stuck with them so we need to embrace them and appreciate them. Willie was one of the best of the lot, all future and current gombeens need to appreciate they are standing on the shoulders of a giant (figurative giant not literal naturally).

Now what are we left with not only in the cabinet but the Dail? Well meaning but ineffective and clueless career men and women. I've already set up a set of merchandising based on "What would WOD Do?", armbands and t-shirts.


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## MrMan (23 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> Actually..........
> 
> 
> 
> You can use that line to excuse any sort of behaviour



It doesn't excuse this behaviour, just points to the very real possibility that when business is done at high levels and even on smaller scales, very little could be considered whiter than white. Most of us would accept that if we have a chance to gain an advantage over a competitor we would take it.


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## MrMan (23 Feb 2010)

Caveat said:


> I'm still gobsmacked that this buffoon is a barrister.  Never knew that and can barely believe it.



I think that's half his problem, in that people see him and think he looks funny so surely he is an eejit. George Lee was given gravitas by being RTE's Economist and by being highly qualified for that role, he even looked the part, but that perception also rang false when it came to politics.


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## Bronte (23 Feb 2010)

Sunny said:


> The reporter did publish what Willie O' Dea said.
> 
> .


 
My understanding was that a) O' Dea asked the reporter to check his sources before publishing and b) the reporter asked Quinlivan who said he did not own the flat and c) therefore the newspaper did not publish Quinlivan as the owner or co owner.  

I'm not standing up for O' Dea lying.  That is dreadful behaviour.  We have what we have in relation to parish politics in Ireland and O' Dea is one of the better ones out of a bad lot.


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## Caveat (23 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> I think that's half his problem, in that people see him and think he looks funny so surely he is an eejit.


 
Well I also think that he comes across as an eejit as it happens but I take your point.


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## Shawady (23 Feb 2010)

Will Trevor Sergant be following him?

Willie O'Dea's involvment of the gardai was said to be a reason why he had to go according to John Gormley.

Interesting timing of the story breaking.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0223/sargentt.html


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## MrMan (23 Feb 2010)

Caveat said:


> Well I also think that he comes across as an eejit as it happens but I take your point.




Fair enough, I'm pulling back now for fear that people think I'm walking around wearing I heart WoD T-shirts.


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## NOAH (23 Feb 2010)

I think WOD's problem was that he was using confidential information and if he stayed it would have got worse.

It's unfair to tar him with the eejit tag as we have to accept that it is the electorate that are the eejits and as long as they behave as such we will have a shower in power for evermore.

noah


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## Complainer (23 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Seems to be a common enough opinion, but it is also a common opinion that we should have qualified people in the Dail, as he is a qualified accountant and barrister I would presume that makes him qualified and at the very least bright. Anyway he is gone now so lets see who we get in his place.


You might want to check out his accountancy qualification before you go much further.

I'm miss him. My missus used to crack up laughing every time his moustached face came on the news.


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## johnd (23 Feb 2010)

Complainer said:


> You might want to check out his accountancy qualification before you go much further.
> 
> I'm miss him. My missus used to crack up laughing every time his moustached face came on the news.



He's still a TD. He hasn't gone away you know.....


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## Capt. Beaky (23 Feb 2010)

Complainer said:


> You might want to check out his accountancy qualification before you go much further.
> 
> I'm miss him. My missus used to crack up laughing every time his moustached face came on the news.


Don't say - another accountant of the Bertie mould? He, also, never seems to have denied that he was qualified. Is that a lie by omission?


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## Bronte (24 Feb 2010)

Complainer said:


> You might want to check out his accountancy qualification before you go much further.
> 
> .


 
What does that mean?


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## MrMan (24 Feb 2010)

Complainer said:


> You might want to check out his accountancy qualification before you go much further.
> 
> I'm miss him. My missus used to crack up laughing every time his moustached face came on the news.



I'm just going by news reports, i've no interest in delving into his background.


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## Betsy Og (24 Feb 2010)

FWIW (i.e. probably not much), I heard that he got the exams for both but never practiced as an accountant or solicitor/barrister. 

Now that may be rubbish, but it would add up as to how he could be so "loose" with his affidavit etc., if the law was really ingrained in him surely he wouldnt have left himself that exposed.

For all the giving out, and there's no denying this latest episode is v v poor form, at least there's no suggestion he was 'on the make' himself. That Ray Burke/Charlie/Liam Lawlor style gougery is the real affront in my book.


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## Howitzer (24 Feb 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> For all the giving out, and there's no denying this latest episode is v v poor form, at least there's no suggestion he was 'on the make' himself. That Ray Burke/Charlie/Liam Lawlor style gougery is the real affront in my book.


Unfortunately that's the standard we've set for ourselves. It's not really much of a saving grace.


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## johnd (24 Feb 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> FWIW (i.e. probably not much), I heard that he got the exams for both but never practiced as an accountant or solicitor/barrister.
> 
> Now that may be rubbish, but it would add up as to how he could be so "loose" with his affidavit etc., if the law was really ingrained in him surely he wouldnt have left himself that exposed.
> 
> For all the giving out, and there's no denying this latest episode is v v poor form, at least there's no suggestion he was 'on the make' himself. That Ray Burke/Charlie/Liam Lawlor style gougery is the real affront in my book.



From my reading of the case he was responding to accusations from Sinn Fein  that he had written on government headed notepaper to people who had applied for planning permission. They had not applied to WOD for permission but to the local authority but Willie had written to them assuring them of his efforts on their behalf.  He may not have been on the make as we understand the expression but it was for his benefit only


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