# PTSB - got redress but had switched to Bank of Ireland



## Noddy12 (24 Nov 2017)

I’ve received a redress letter today from PTSB which has come as a bolt out of the blue. To give a bit of background, in Nov08 my husband lost his job and our mortgage repayments became difficult to maintain. He contacted the bank and was offered a switch from our tracker rate to a cheaper variable but as the letter now states the bank acknowledge that we may not have been provided with adequate warnings at the time. We had queried on two or more occasions over the last few years as these issues arose in the media but were always informed that there was no wrongdoing on our account. Hence why this letter today has come as a bit of a shock.  Our redress payment is in the tens of thousands and makes good overpayments on the mortgage up to 2016 when we moved our mortgage to another provider which offered us savings on our SVR with PTSB. However my question is if we were with PTSB would we be returned to the tracker rate we would have been on had we made decisions based on adequate warnings/advice?  I don’t have all info to hand but presumably our tracker rate would be less than the 3.1% fixed rate we are currently on.  I don’t wish to look a gift horse in the mouth and all that but feel that we continue to be impacted.  It doesn’t just stop because we switched mortgage provider.  I rang PTSB to query whether we would be returned to the correct tracker rate had we continued to be customers but the person I spoke with could not advise. I understand I can take the money and appeal but do I have a basis for doing so?


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## Stitcher (24 Nov 2017)

Good to hear that Ptsb are offering you return of overpayment to 2016. I believe you can accept the offer and still appeal as you should also be entitled to overpayment since 2016 also when you switched bank. Many of us switched much earlier, me in 2010, and l will be looking for compensation up to now. Our issues (those who switched bank) hopefully will be covered by central bank review announcement in December. 
Others may offer more advice. 
Great news to hear ptsb are refunding overpayments!


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## Stitcher (24 Nov 2017)

May I ask, what sort of Tracker you had, and what it said in your contract?


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## Noddy12 (25 Nov 2017)

Thank you for your response Stitcher. I actually did a clear out of old documents during the summer and shredded much of the PTSB correspondence!! I’m going to request a copy of all documentation including the original contract together with the rates applicable at the time of the rate switch to see what the current position might potentially be and will post information then. But we originally drew down on the mortgage in 2006 for a two year fixed term at 4.2% and were automatically moved to the prevailing tracker rate c. Sep-08.  I understand from speaking with PTSB this evening that the payment will be made to us regardless of whether we wish to appeal.  Whilst we have not suffered the extreme hardships and tragedies that some people affected have done, it certainly affected our quality of life for many years and put us under financial constraints that we could certainly have done without. But yes it is a very much welcomed redress.


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## Stitcher (25 Nov 2017)

In principle also you/we should be offered back our Tracker, or compensation for excess payments until end of mortgage with new bank as if you hadn't been moved off the Tracker and moved bank then as a result, you would be on it now until the end of your mortgage.  What Tracker rate were you on in Nov 08 after the fixed?


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## Noddy12 (25 Nov 2017)

Our options letter (which was incidentally posted to an incorrect address and only came to light after one of our queries) states ECB plus max 1.68% as at Sep08. It amounted to 5.93%.  We defaulted to this position by not responding to the options letter that we did not receive. When we contacted them in Oct 08 they offered an LTV of 5.3%.  We proceeded with this at the time but the redress letter indicates that we may not have been given adequate warnings.  It was offered over the phone.

  I can’t find our actual agreement but the wording on our pre contract terms states the following: “at the end of the fixed rate period you may exercise an option to contract for another fixed rate period (if available) or to move to an SVR or to a Tracker Mortgage Rate. If a Tracker Mortgage Rate is chosen the loan will become a Tracker Mortgage Loan and the rate applicable will be the rate appropriate to the balance outstanding on the loan at the time of expiry of the fixed rate period and as may be varied in accordance with variations to the ECB Rate.  The payment rates on this housing loan may be adjusted by the lender from time to time (applies if an SVR or tracker rate is chosen).”  That last bit is then contradicted by the options letter which states that “the interest rate which applies to this Tracker Mortgage Loan will never be more than 1.68% over the ECB refinancing rate.” I’m going to request a copy of our signed agreement.


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## Thomas (25 Nov 2017)

Are they calculating the redress using the 1.68% margin over Ecb or another rate?


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## Stitcher (25 Nov 2017)

Sounds like that but it is an ambiguous sentence for a Tracker mortgag, where the rate above ECB was usually for the life of the mortgage.   I would get advice from Padraic Kissane who knows the details of all the contracts. Do you remember what Tracker rate you had when you first took out the mortgage, before you fixed? Or was it fixed from the start.


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## Noddy12 (25 Nov 2017)

@Thomas They have not indicated in the redress letter what rate they have used in their calculations. They simply refer to the incorrect rate without stating what the correct rate actually is. I understand I can request a copy of the amended Mortgage statement but it has not been furnished to us with the pack.
@Stitcher we were on a two year fixed rate of 4.2% from outset.  Thanks for the info on Padraic Kissane. 
I guess I have a small element of fear that if I look into it too much they might find that we’re actually not entitled to redress at all!! Irrational maybe, but having been told on numerous occasions by the bank there was nothing untoward on our account it’s just there.


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## Thomas (25 Nov 2017)

You should contact them and ask for your mortgage back - they offered it back to me (subject to meeting their standard mortgage criteria) - we are just arguing over the appropriate rate which is why i was interested in what rate  they used for you


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## Noddy12 (25 Nov 2017)

@Thomas out of interest are they willing to meet your legal fees and costs in terms of reverting to your original mortgage? We are currently on a three year fixed rate with BOI and given their recent offering I presume there a considerable breakage fee attached to coming out of the agreement.  Is the rate offered considerably different to what you expected to be on?


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## Thomas (25 Nov 2017)

Didn't get to that level as they were offering the 3.25% rate which was a non runner as I am on a 3.15% with boi!  

Re the breakage fee I would call boi on this as I was quoted a €500 breakage fee for a 3 year fixed on a large mortgage  that I only fixed the rate in April 2017.  If you can get a 1.68% tracker back with PTSB it's worth the break fee & legal fees (though I suspect PTSB  will cover them)


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Nov 2017)

Hi Noddy

Of course, ptsb should take you back on the tracker rate, pay for the excess payments made to Bank of Ireland and cover all your legal costs. 

But the only way to make sure that this happens is for the Central Bank to tell them to do this to all affected customers. 

So send in your complaint to the Central Bank. They won't discuss it with you but it might put them under pressure. 

Likewise, notify your local TDs and ask them to put pressure on the Department of Finance, The Central Bank and anyone else who can make this happen.

Brendan


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## Noddy12 (25 Nov 2017)

@Brendan Burgess thanks Brendan. Should we expect to be put on the rate offered at the time of the options letter i.e. ECB plus 1.68% regardless of the ambiguity that Stitcher refers to above? Obviously we should ask PTSB whether they’re willing to do so. As mentioned above I asked in my phonecall to them yesterday but the member of staff I spoke to was not authorised to make a call on it.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Nov 2017)

If they agree that they took your tracker from you unfairly, then they should put you back in the position you would have been in.

That means putting you back on the tracker i.e. taking you back from Bank of Ireland. I have no idea why the Central Bank does not spell this out.

Brendan


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