# I  paid €100 LPT by Visa Debit, revenue site says I have until March to pay balance!



## mccarrd2 (2 Nov 2013)

Hi. I logged on and seen I could pay the LPT online but I could also edit the amount I paid. Is there anything stopping me logging on every month for a few months and paying it off in instalments at my own discretion?


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## Eithneangela (2 Nov 2013)

No, you have to commit now as to how you're going to pay for the 2014 LPT. If you opt for DD, then it will be taken from your bank account in  monthly installments. You have no control over the payment mechanism after you've opted for one of the choices available.


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## mccarrd2 (3 Nov 2013)

I will commit to pay by debit card just not pay it all in one go.


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## theresa1 (3 Nov 2013)

-You have to pay it all in one go with debit or credit card is my understanding.


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## mccarrd2 (5 Nov 2013)

It looks like u can pay it in installments at your own descretion up until the 1st March. See the below message I got when I opted to pay €100 by Visa Debit, I haven't gone through with a payment yet as I'm holding off for more clarity amid all the current confusion. 

*You have elected to pay 100. Please note that your outstanding liability is currently 585, which means you will still have a liability of 485.00 after payment. Payment for the outstanding liability must be setup by 01/03/2014 to avoid incurring interest.*

*Are you sure you wish to submit your LPT details?*


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## ajapale (5 Nov 2013)

mccarrd2 said:


> It looks like u can pay it in instalments at your own descretion up until the 1st March. See the below message I got when I opted to pay €100 by Visa Debit, I haven't gone through with a payment yet as I'm holding off for more clarity amid all the current confusion.
> 
> *You have elected to pay 100. Please note that your outstanding liability is currently 585, which means you will still have a liability of 485.00 after payment. Payment for the outstanding liability must be setup by 01/03/2014 to avoid incurring interest.*
> 
> *Are you sure you wish to submit your LPT details?*



Thanks mccard! Thats a very interesting discovery. aj


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## ajapale (9 Nov 2013)

Has anyone else exploited this apparent loophole?


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## ang1170 (9 Nov 2013)

Not yet, but it looks like the answer to what I'd been looking for.

I shall pay a nominal amount now, and the balance in January or February next.

Next question: assuming this is how it appears, why are they insisting you must pay in advance when paying by credit or debit card, when it's not the case? They’d get rid of a lot of complaints if they just said it was possible to do this.


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## davep (10 Nov 2013)

Just wondering if anyone knows what the absolute minimum you can pay is?


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## davep (10 Nov 2013)

Just tried this and got this reply.

*You have elected to pay €1. Please note that your outstanding liability is currently 225, which means you will still have a liability of 224.00 after payment. Payment for the outstanding liability must be setup by 01/01/2014 to avoid incurring interes*t.

Are you sure you wish to submit your LPT details?

Why have you got to March?


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2013)

Thanks Dave,

I imagine revenue have moved to (try and) close of the anomoly.

McCarrd, I dont suppose you took a screen shot of the original msg?

As it stands it looks like revenue wont give you the option to pay by debit card in "dribs and drabs" after 1/1/2014. But that they will accept such payments up to then.

Ive noticed the spokeslady for revenue is very fond of the concept of "commiting" to payment.  The debit card "drips & drabs" method being discussed here lacks the element of "commitment" inherent in the other revenue mandated methods.

aj


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## mccarrd2 (11 Nov 2013)

Ajapale

I dont have a screenshot but the below is a copy and paste from the 05/11. 

*You have elected to pay 100. Please note that your outstanding liability is currently 585, which means you will still have a liability of 485.00 after payment. Payment for the outstanding liability must be setup by 01/03/2014 to avoid incurring interest.

Are you sure you wish to submit your LPT details?*


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2013)

Folks 

This is going over my head completely ( as indeed is a lot of the LPT payment strategies) 

1) mccard has a bank account 
2) he wants to delay payment as long as possible? 
3) He can set up a Single Debit Authority to pay in Mid March.
4) He has found a way to pay earlier than mid March, although admittedly later than November. 

Why not just set up the Single Debit Authority? 

Brendan


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## Time (11 Nov 2013)

Many people don't want Revenue to have their bank details.

My dad opted for a single payment in the post office in cash for the reason cited.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2013)

Hi Time

But do they not have to give the Revenue their details to set up the payment by debit card? 

Anyway, why would they not want to give the Revenue their bank account details? 

Apparently, some people  paid by cheque to avoid giving the Revenue their bank account details.

Brendan


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## Time (11 Nov 2013)

> Apparently, some people paid by cheque to avoid giving the Revenue their bank account details.


That did make me chuckle.


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## ang1170 (11 Nov 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Folks
> 
> This is going over my head completely ( as indeed is a lot of the LPT payment strategies)
> 
> ...


 
I've made this point a couple if times now: not everyone has the luxury of knowing that they will definitely have several hundred sitting in their account at a date several months in advance, and would prefer to pay it when they know they have it, even if it is in advance of that date.

Others, like myself, have been caught out by an infrequent DD going through when they had forgotten about it. I assume the Revenue won't send any reminders?

Others have had bad experiences with DDs and just don't like them as a result.

Others just don't like the principle of not having explicit control over what happens to their account.

Are all of these stupid? Maybe, but having provided the option of debit and credit cards to people, it doesn't seem fair to penalise them by asking them to pay in advance. 

By the way, the warning notice when paying less than the owed amount (I requested E100) definitely reads as 1/1/2014. In the end I gave up and just set up a single authority DD.


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2013)

ang1170 said:


> Others, like myself, have been caught out by an infrequent DD going through when they had forgotten about it. I assume the Revenue won't send any reminders?
> 
> .
> 
> ...


 
The only sensible think you've done is pay by single debit authority. I don't understand your point about being caught out by an infrequent DD, that's a matter of people managing their accounts correctly. As for Revenue sending reminders, based on the fiasco they created in the last month you can forget it. 

And yes I think people are stupid if they thing they have found a way around the system because it could end up costing them dearly. 

In particular I note that the surcharges for not paying this on time, means that all income that was taxed will be subject to a surcharge, and I also note that the NPPR and household charge are big time highlighted as being linking to the LPT. People are storing up mega problems for themselves. In about two years or so we'll have people on AAM saying they never heard of LPT and had overlooked the one off 2012 household charge and they now have been audited, or come to revenue's attention and they owe 000 in penalties and interest. 

There seems to be some kind of herd mentality, things like sure my neighbours didn't pay the household charge, I'm undervaluing my house for LPT because our local community came together and decided to all give the same valuation, and now not paying the LPT in the way that revenue wants. They will get everybody in the end. As revenue always has the upper hand, it's called time.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Nov 2013)

Bronte said:


> In about two years or so we'll have people on AAM saying they never heard of LPT and had overlooked the one off 2012 household charge and they now have been audited, or come to revenue's attention and they owe 000 in penalties and interest.



I wonder. I think that the people who felt aggrieved at the NPPR penalties were based overseas. 

LPT affects all home owners and not just those with a second property. The LPT is  much more widely discussed than the NPPR. 

Having said that, there probably will be some people who do not know about it.


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I wonder. I think that the people who felt aggrieved at the NPPR penalties were based overseas.
> 
> LPT affects all home owners and not just those with a second property. The LPT is much more widely discussed than the NPPR.
> 
> Having said that, there probably will be some people who do not know about it.


 
I agree that NPPR problem was mostly overseas landlords, but not all.  But I was in Ireland during the househhold charge debates and met loads of people who had decided they weren't paying it.  And no doubt with all the confusion now, about LPT, people will forget about the household charge, but it will come back to haunt each and every single one of them when they go to sell, or estates go to probate.  I believe the last time we had property tax, about 15 or so years ago now, that it still can affect certain estates.  

So I'll change my statement a bit.  In 2 or 5 years time we will have people on AAM stating that they are an executor and that their parents didn't pay the household charge in 2012, they didn't put a correct valution on the property in 2013 for LPT and now to sell the house the bill from revenue is x.  And what can they do.


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## ang1170 (12 Nov 2013)

Bronte said:


> The only sensible think you've done is pay by single debit authority. I don't understand your point about being caught out by an infrequent DD, that's a matter of people managing their accounts correctly.


 
Oh, that we were all so organised as you to remember a charge going through an account that was set up months previously......


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## so-crates (12 Nov 2013)

davep said:


> Just tried this and got this reply.
> 
> *You have elected to pay €1. Please note that your outstanding liability is currently 225, which means you will still have a liability of 224.00 after payment. Payment for the outstanding liability must be setup by 01/01/2014 to avoid incurring interes*t.
> 
> ...


That is very interesting. I saw the same thing (with the March date) and rang revenue about it. After an overexposure to some musical flotsam or other I finally got through to a person, I talked him through it. He was surprised the facility to change the amount was there so I asked specifically what the due date for payment was as based on that facility I could stretch this out. Would I or even could I be penalised so long as I paid by the end of the year I would be compliant with the legislation. I told them that logically there are two dates at play here. One is the notification of a means of payment date and the other is the due date of the tax. The due date being fixed at 01/01/2014 why then would I be penalised if I paid some in November and some in December, given I had given notification of payment means by making the first payment. He put me back on hold so he could consult with his colleagues and they concluded that the date had to be November 27th for debit card payment. So I said grand but that they needed to urgently address the issue of the incorrect information on their website as I would not be the only one to encounter it. It would seem that a change has since been made, however it does not tally with what the nice Kerryman from Revenue told me on the phone  shucks!


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## mccarrd2 (14 Nov 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Folks
> 
> This is going over my head completely ( as indeed is a lot of the LPT payment strategies)
> 
> ...


 
The question is can you pay it using a Visa Debit / Laser in installments (at your descretion) between say now and the deadline without signing up for a Single Debit Authority.


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Nov 2013)

mccarrd2 said:


> The question is can you pay it using a Visa Debit / Laser in installments (at your descretion) between say now and the deadline without signing up for a Single Debit Authority.



But the question should be

"Why would any reasonable person want to?"


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## seantheman (14 Nov 2013)

mccarrd2 said:


> The question is can you pay it using a Visa Debit / Laser in installments (at your descretion) between say now and the deadline without signing up for a Single Debit Authority.


 
If you're so hellbent on using your card to make payments why not set up a monthly direct debit from your current account, on the 10th of each month make a card payment to your current account so that on the 15th of each month there are sufficient funds there to meet the direct debit payment. Payment is spread out over 12 months from Jan-Dec


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## ang1170 (14 Nov 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But the question should be
> 
> "Why would any reasonable person want to?"


 
Because they pay when they know they have the cash, under their own control.

Many people do not have the luxury of knowing they will have what is likely to be a few hundred Euro months in advance.

Many people cannot commit to having even 1/12 of that sum every month of the year in advance: they have trouble in meeting utility bills as it stands.

They would rather pay when they know they have it.

Are they being unreasonable?


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## Bronte (15 Nov 2013)

ang1170 said:


> They would rather pay when they know they have it.
> 
> Are they being unreasonable?


 
No it's not unreasonable.  Why not go with the option of paying via An post, that way you control the spending each month and you just treat it as another bill.


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## ang1170 (15 Nov 2013)

I'm sure many will. The point I'm trying to make is that many people, particularly these days, don't have the luxury of taking the simple or "obvious" payment options.

They are then characterised by some as being stupid or unreasonable, which seems a tad unfair to me.....


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## shoestring (27 Nov 2013)

I paid €1 last week, and got the message as above that the balance would need to be paid by 01/01/14. Surely now I can legally pay the balance by this date?The anomaly still exists on their website (if it is an anomaly). Any further views on this topic before close of business today?


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## Bronte (28 Nov 2013)

Are you sure about that 8% Sahd?  I'm not sure if the 1 Euro payment plus the balance later complies with the rules of LPT.  If it doesn't the poster might have to pay a surcharge on all income.


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