# All-Ireland Soccer League: What do people think?



## The_Banker (11 Dec 2007)

Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse. 

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition. 
They have been given reason to believe that governments in the North and South would be receptive to the project and are confident that UEFA -- who have been informally sounded out -- and FIFA will give the necessary backing to the venture. 
Now, they are looking to put an attractive final package together by January with the necessary levels of support and a business plan to convince the two football associations to give the green light to press forward. 
Their involvement is pivotal so that any league including the island's top clubs would be capable of gaining the places to compete in European competition. 
"If the FAI and the IFA want to buy into it then everyone is happy," says one club source. 
"It would be difficult to proceed without their support. 
"There's a bigger picture here. Certainly, there are very professional people involved in this project and there is a lot of excitement about what can be achieved. 
"This could be very big for football in this country and is capable of bringing it to the next level." 
The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season. 
However, those discussions have snowballed with other parties being sought out for advice and to ascertain their interest as the desire for a full time professional All-Ireland league emerged as the ultimate objective. 
Tentative discussions have taken place with a television company who are willing to offer their backing to the venture. 
Other league members, who were not part of the original group of six, have now asked to be kept aware of developments as the project grows wings and some have been invited to subsequent gatherings. 
Regardless of the success of the plan, the 22 eircom League clubs are preparing to lobby the FAI for the re-drafting of the participation agreement amid widespread unhappiness at its implementation.


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## jonnyhotspur (11 Dec 2007)

As a St Pats fan I think it would be good for the game. The Setanta Cup has shown that sectarianism seems to be over in regards to football on the island. It should add a bit more interest to both leagues. Would it be Summer or Winter football? Returning to Richmond Park on a cold wet December Friday wouldn't be my bag anymore.


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## gipimann (11 Dec 2007)

If the two leagues join up and play as one, with UEFA/FIFA support and backing, will that mean that the two international sides will have to join together as well?   Could UEFA/FIFA allow one all-Irish league but two separate international teams?


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## Welfarite (11 Dec 2007)

Is this a separate development from the debate going on about players from NI being allowed declare for ROI? I heard something about the NI Minister for Sport saying such a thing could lead to an all-Unionist team in NI.

Anyone know if such a cross-border arrangment (the league set-up, I mean) exists anywhere in Europe?


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## jonnyhotspur (11 Dec 2007)

Welfarite said:


> Is this a separate development from the debate going on about players from NI being allowed declare for ROI?


Yes



Welfarite said:


> Anyone know if such a cross-border arrangment (the league set-up, I mean) exists anywhere in Europe?


Can't think of any. A few Welsh teams play in the English league but I doubt if the Welsh FA have any control there.


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## The_Banker (11 Dec 2007)

Welfarite said:


> Is this a separate development from the debate going on about players from NI being allowed declare for ROI? I heard something about the NI Minister for Sport saying such a thing could lead to an all-Unionist team in NI.
> 
> I think so
> 
> Anyone know if such a cross-border arrangment (the league set-up, I mean) exists anywhere in Europe?


 
Well Cardiff City and Swansea play in the English leagues.

This is obviously in the early stages of discussion and I would think the best bet would be for the clubs to approach UEFA before the IFA or the FAI as those guys would only be interested in preserving there administration status.


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## Caveat (11 Dec 2007)

and don't Derry City play in the eicom league anyway?


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## jonnyhotspur (11 Dec 2007)

Welfarite said:


> Is this a separate development from the debate going on about players from NI being allowed declare for ROI? I heard something about the NI Minister for Sport saying such a thing could lead to an all-Unionist team in NI.


 
Is this a new debate? I thought FIFA sorted this out for us last year. They allowed a young lad from the north (Darron Gibson) declare for us even though his parents/grandparents were not born in the Republic.
They then stated it was not to happen anymore. A player, a parent or grandparent must be born in the country.


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## csirl (11 Dec 2007)

An All-Ireland league is a good thing - if done properly should be a stronger league that either the Eircom or IFA leagues.

My big concern would be that it is done correctly and that the FAI does not get a bad deal in the interested of "North South Cooperation". The reality is that the Eircom League is ON AVERAGE a higher standard of football than the IFA league. This is essentially because the FAI part of the island has 3 times the population of the IFA part. If done correctly, then each division should have 3 times as many FAI teams as IFA teams e.g. a 20 team Premier Division would have 15 FAI and 5 IFA teams. Problem is that the northerners will look for what they see as an equal merger with IFA teams getting half the spots in the top division. In their ignorance, they will claim that both leagues are on a par with one another, even though Euro results, Setanta Cup results and player movements (Eircom rejects/retirees who venture north of the border seem to be among the better players up there) say otherwise. The FAI are notoriously bad at getting a good deal, so chances are that the IFA will dig in over the equal no. of teams issue with Eircom League teams losing out. Any new league should be on the basis that entry into it is on merit, not politics.


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## csirl (11 Dec 2007)

> Is this a new debate? I thought FIFA sorted this out for us last year. They allowed a young lad from the north (Darron Gibson) declare for us even though his parents/grandparents were not born in the Republic.
> They then stated it was not to happen anymore. A player, a parent or grandparent must be born in the country.


 
FIFA back tracked on this on reflection (or legal advice). Any player who has an Irish passport is eligible to play for Ireland - to have it any other way would leave FIFA wide open to discrimination law suits in that all citizens of a country have an equal right to represent that country at International level.


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## csirl (11 Dec 2007)

> Setanta Cup results


 
FAI teams have a 60% record in Setanta Cup, as opposed to 40% for IFA.

FAI - 29-18-17
IFA - 15-22-27 
(w-d-l)


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## The_Banker (11 Dec 2007)

csirl said:


> An All-Ireland league is a good thing - if done properly should be a stronger league that either the Eircom or IFA leagues.
> 
> My big concern would be that it is done correctly and that the FAI does not get a bad deal in the interested of "North South Cooperation". The reality is that the Eircom League is ON AVERAGE a higher standard of football than the IFA league. This is essentially because the FAI part of the island has 3 times the population of the IFA part. If done correctly, then each division should have 3 times as many FAI teams as IFA teams e.g. a 20 team Premier Division would have 15 FAI and 5 IFA teams. Problem is that the northerners will look for what they see as an equal merger with IFA teams getting half the spots in the top division. In their ignorance, they will claim that both leagues are on a par with one another, even though Euro results, Setanta Cup results and player movements (Eircom rejects/retirees who venture north of the border seem to be among the better players up there) say otherwise. The FAI are notoriously bad at getting a good deal, so chances are that the IFA will dig in over the equal no. of teams issue with Eircom League teams losing out. Any new league should be on the basis that entry into it is on merit, not politics.


Ah come on... the whole concept of the idea is to merge and make club football in Ireland better than what it is at present. Lets not start fighting before it even gets off the ground. 
I would assume that neogatiations are going on now between clubs and not the IFA or the FAI. Basically, the club owners are pushing this, not politics and not the governing bodies. This concept will succeed or fail on the reaction of the fans. 
Just because a premier league is established doesn't mean the IFA and FAI have to merge. I can't see that happening. There would not be enough jobs for the boys..!
Plus, no matter how many clubs NI or the ROI get into this new 'premier league' if there is a promotion and relegation system then all clubs will find there level after a season or two.


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## Rovers1901 (11 Dec 2007)

I think it's mere kite flying from the interested parties (a couple of LOI clubs and Belfast's big two as well as some interested business parties).
If the "merger" were to go ahead with the agreement and support of the FAI and IFA , then the calls to merge both international sides would be so strong as to kill any interest from the IFA.

A breakaway by the clubs from their domestic organisations would doom the thing from the start as they'd never be allowed into UEFA competitions. UEFA's big fear is European breakaway league led by the G14 which would kill their cashcow the Champions League. Any such Irish breakaway competition could be used as a precedent by Europe's bigger clubs.

I'd love an All Ireland league but I think there's a lot of work to be done before it happens. It's the one thing that could really rejuvenate domestic football and be a massive boost to football on this island.


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## The_Banker (11 Dec 2007)

Rovers1901 said:


> I think it's mere kite flying from the interested parties (a couple of LOI clubs and Belfast's big two as well as some interested business parties).
> If the "merger" were to go ahead with the agreement and support of the FAI and IFA , then the calls to merge both international sides would be so strong as to kill any interest from the IFA.
> 
> A breakaway by the clubs from their domestic organisations would doom the thing from the start as they'd never be allowed into UEFA competitions. UEFA's big fear is European breakaway league led by the G14 which would kill their cashcow the Champions League. Any such Irish breakaway competition could be used as a precedent by Europe's bigger clubs.
> ...


 
Very true, it won't be easy to achieve but at least people are trying. Let us see how it goes. 
The one thing that could kill it would be the FAI and IFA suits who would be out of jobs if this happened. A small island with two Chief Executives, Two Presidents etc... Do you think John Delaney would resign and allow the IFA Chief Executive a free run? I think not...


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## csirl (11 Dec 2007)

A better and simpler solution to an All-Ireland league would be for the Eircom League to accept applications and admit a couple of clubs in Belfast and a couple more elsewhere in the north. Would effectively relegate the IFA league to the status of the e.g Leinster Senior League. 

Thinking out loud, a lot of the northern clubs have a secterian following. If the above was done, the newly admited clubs could all be newly founded clubs without the secterian baggage that cross the community divide e.g. "Belfast United". I accept that existing supporters of northern teams may not jump on board and would not be happy, but you have to take the long term view. The All-Ireland league would be much better and youngsters in the north in future generations will invariably support the higher profile league. 

Remember that when the League of Ireland was originally founded, the clubs participating were in competition with the Leinster and Munster Senior Leagues and many of the original LoI teams were newly founded in competition against more established better supported LSL & MSL teams. Eventually the higher profile LoI won out.


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## Rovers1901 (11 Dec 2007)

csirl said:


> A better and simpler solution to an All-Ireland league would be for the Eircom League to accept applications and admit a couple of clubs in Belfast and a couple more elsewhere in the north. Would effectively relegate the IFA league to the status of the e.g Leinster Senior League.
> 
> Thinking out loud, a lot of the northern clubs have a secterian following. If the above was done, the newly admited clubs could all be newly founded clubs without the secterian baggage that cross the community divide e.g. "Belfast United". I accept that existing supporters of northern teams may not jump on board and would not be happy, but you have to take the long term view. The All-Ireland league would be much better and youngsters in the north in future generations will invariably support the higher profile league.
> 
> Remember that when the League of Ireland was originally founded, the clubs participating were in competition with the Leinster and Munster Senior Leagues and many of the original LoI teams were newly founded in competition against more established better supported LSL & MSL teams. Eventually the higher profile LoI won out.



I'd disagree strongly with the above suggestion. For starters there's not exactly a rush of clubs to join the LOI from the North and apart from the special case of Derry in 1985, I think only Donegall Celtic applied. Doesn't take a genius to work out which side of the religious fence they're associated with. 
You can't dismiss Linfield just because they sing the sash! They're the best supported club on the island probably and I want to see Rovers playing them and Glentoran and Cliftonville etc....and sending them back to Belfast after getting hammered by us.


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## ClubMan (11 Dec 2007)

Welfarite said:


> Anyone know if such a cross-border arrangment (the league set-up, I mean) exists anywhere in Europe?


_Monaco _in the _French League_.
_Vaduz _and other _Liechtenstein _clubs in the _Swiss League_.


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## The_Banker (11 Dec 2007)

csirl said:


> A better and simpler solution to an All-Ireland league would be for the Eircom League to accept applications and admit a couple of clubs in Belfast and a couple more elsewhere in the north. Would effectively relegate the IFA league to the status of the e.g Leinster Senior League.
> 
> Thinking out loud, a lot of the northern clubs have a secterian following. If the above was done, the newly admited clubs could all be newly founded clubs without the secterian baggage that cross the community divide e.g. "Belfast United". I accept that existing supporters of northern teams may not jump on board and would not be happy, but you have to take the long term view. The All-Ireland league would be much better and youngsters in the north in future generations will invariably support the higher profile league.
> 
> Remember that when the League of Ireland was originally founded, the clubs participating were in competition with the Leinster and Munster Senior Leagues and many of the original LoI teams were newly founded in competition against more established better supported LSL & MSL teams. Eventually the higher profile LoI won out.


 
To be honest what you are suggesting will never happen. This will only work if clubs like Glentoran, Linfield and Portadown and there fans support it. There can never be one island league without the support of these clubs. The southern clubs and northern clubs will have to come into this on equal terms and to be honest if any of there supporters read your comments I wouldn't be surprised if they were offended.
As for sectarian trouble? The Setanta Cup has been run for the last few years with Protestant clubs going to the Brandywell and Derry City going to Winsor Park without issue.
I know Cork City fans have gone to Belfast and been given a warm welcome on The Shankill Road.

I would be interested to know the opinions of any Irish League supporter from Northern ireland who might post on this site?


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## RMCF (11 Dec 2007)

The_Banker said:


> To be honest what you are suggesting will never happen. This will only work if clubs like Glentoran, Linfield and Portadown and there fans support it. There can never be one island league without the support of these clubs. The southern clubs and northern clubs will have to come into this on equal terms and to be honest if any of there supporters read your comments I wouldn't be surprised if they were offended.
> As for sectarian trouble? The Setanta Cup has been run for the last few years with Protestant clubs going to the Brandywell and Derry City going to Winsor Park without issue.
> I know Cork City fans have gone to Belfast and been given a warm welcome on The Shankill Road.
> 
> I would be interested to know the opinions of any Irish League supporter from Northern ireland who might post on this site?



I follow Derry city and as you say the Setanta Cup has been a great success. Admittedly there has been some incidents when Derry have played Linfield, but these were from a few scumbags and not anywhere near the grounds. They technically could be classed as 'society' problems rather than 'football' problems. It is hard to stop some scumbag throwing stones at a supporter bus, but I think that these events will become more and more scarce the more these teams play each other.

The society in the North is definitely getting 'more normal' for want of better words. People are definitely more tolerant of each other, although we will always have our idiots. There will always be a big police presence around these matches but they generally pass off fairly well.

Derry fans and Linfield fans are actually in contact during the season and sometimes invite each other to attend the odd game at Windsor/Brandywell. And as was said in another post, anytime RoI teams come to the North they are generally welcomed with open arms.

I think that an All-Ireland league is a great idea and would improve the standard of football on the island, but it will be the FA staff who will try to stop it, as we will need to lose 50% of them !!!!


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## ClubMan (11 Dec 2007)

RMCF said:


> There will always be a big police presence around these matches but they generally pass off fairly well.


Do they actually let the _Peelers _into _Brandywell _these days or is matchday security still contracted out to, er, "local community activists"?


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## Rovers1901 (12 Dec 2007)

The "community activists" are still the ones responsible for security in the Brandywell. Although after recent trouble after the last Rovers - Derry match, someone revealed that plain clothes PSNI are in the ground during matches. Not sure in what capacity though (ie do they actively intervene or merely monitor, I strongly suspect they don't nor wouldn't intervene)


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## RMCF (12 Dec 2007)

No, still no police in the Brandywell (and I very much doubt there are plain clothes ones in there either). They possibly may be involved in some capacity when likes of Linfield and Glentoran come down - and indeed they may be in among their fans for all we know, but I would say any involvement would be in watching fans outside/on route.

The stewarding is done by volunteers at the Brandywell. Not sure if this is the same as 'community activists' as you call them. This sounds to me like you are hinting at something. There was also some different stewards this year who were provided by the Eircom League, and these guys might be paid for their work.


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## ClubMan (12 Dec 2007)

Rovers1901 said:


> The "community activists" are still the ones responsible for security in the Brandywell. Although after recent trouble after the last Rovers - Derry match, someone revealed that plain clothes PSNI are in the ground during matches. Not sure in what capacity though (ie do they actively intervene or merely monitor, I strongly suspect they don't nor wouldn't intervene)


Maybe they're monitoring the "community activists"? 



RMCF said:


> The stewarding is done by volunteers at the Brandywell. Not sure if this is the same as 'community activists' as you call them. This sounds to me like you are hinting at something.


Just going on what some _Brandywell _stewards said to some _Bohs _supporters (not _"The Tavern Four" _- no sympathy for them at all obviously!) at the last _Derry v Bohs _game of the season. The stewards made claims about their own membership of a certain banned organization. Maybe it was all guff but one might expect more proessionalism from security staff if that was the case.


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## Pique318 (12 Dec 2007)

sounds like scaring the Dubs to me.
Derryman mentions he's got membership of the 'Community Activists' and visiting Dub craps oneself and causes no trouble for game.

Well, would you ?


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