# Is it worth getting a solicitor involved?



## futuresailor (10 Mar 2010)

hey guys,
first time poster here, Im looking for some advice if you could help me out please.

Visited a solicitor today with regard to a personal injuries claim and I was quoted €2500 as cost of taking the claim as far as piab settlement. I was told it would be a sliding scale up to that point, in that if it was settled with the insurance company next week it may only be 500, or if it was settled a few months later maybe 1000, or 1500 etc. and if through piab, the full 2500. (if settled with ins co they MAY pay towards my costs)

My question is, being entirely green to the area of law, solicitors and injury claims, is whether this is reasonable.

My claim is: I was driving my car alone, I had stopped approaching a roundabout, waiting to join it when another driver rear ended me (at some speed considering our location). There is no question of liability, it was her fault and this is recognised by her insurance company also. Consequently, I have had neck whiplash (with shoulder involvment too) for past few weeks, been off work, on strong meds, due to start physio shortly. Lots of expense, loss of earnings, severe disruption to normal life etc

It was talked through that the cost would involve filling in the application forms, dealing with the insurance company, getting the medical forms completed arranging any other medical exams necessary and so forth. The solicitor seems very much a trustworthy honest sort, experienced with these cases and knowledgeable on the process. On speaking with them it is tempting to let someone who knows what they are at to deal with the ins and outs of this.

However, I know that piab is straightforward and can be done without solicitors. And I know I have a straightforward case in that its their fault, Im injured and all thats left to discover is when (if?) i'll fully recover. So, is 2500 a reasonable, average cost? And secondly, will I see a return on this 2500 in my final settlement? - as promised to me by my solicitor today?


----------



## babaduck (10 Mar 2010)

There is absolutely no need to employ a solicitor for the PIAB process - it was set up to avoid paying legal fees.  I went through the PIAB last year and it was relatively straightforward - register the case for €50, get your doctor to complete the medical report form (they charge about €250 for this which you have to pay) and then let the PIAB do the rest.  Unfortunately in my case, the other party who were liable refused to deal with the PIAB so I've had to get a solicitor & barrister and bring the case to court.  

Save yourself the outlay and do the PIAB yourself.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2010)

Hello Sailor

You will find the pros and cons argued out here in some detail

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=132512

Brendan


----------



## seantheman (10 Mar 2010)

futuresailor said:


> if through piab, the full 2500. (if settled with ins co they MAY pay towards my costs)
> 
> And secondly, will I see a return on this 2500 in my final settlement? - as promised to me by my solicitor today?


 
These comments seem to be at odds with one another. In the first you say the insurance co. MAY pay towards legal costs, in the second you seem to suggest that the solicitor PROMISES to see a return on the outlay?


----------



## dereko1969 (10 Mar 2010)

I would question the advice you're getting from the solicitor. You *must* take the case to PIAB in the first place, there is no avoiding that at all, so if they're telling you porkies about that then I would question their motives.


----------



## futuresailor (10 Mar 2010)

Thanks for everyones replies



seantheman said:


> These comments seem to be at odds with one another. In the first you say the insurance co. MAY pay towards legal costs, in the second you seem to suggest that the solicitor PROMISES to see a return on the outlay?


 
This refers to, if the ins co wishes to settle with me prior to a piab decision, it could be a condition of settlement that they pay part or all of my solicitor costs. 
If it goes further to piab and I accept the piab decision, the full cost of 2500 will be borne by me from whatever I am awarded. The solicitors arguement was that even then, my award would be so much greater than if I had not got a solicitor, that I would see a return on this 2500. So does anyone here believe I would??

derek, I dont think(tell me if im wrong!) the solicitor was lying. She basically said it has to go to piab, but I could settle with the insurance company myself at anytime prior to a piab decision. If its rejected by any side, then we'd go to court.


----------



## babaduck (10 Mar 2010)

I think your solicitor is lying.  Most insurers will prefer to deal with PIAB as it makes life easier for them, unless they think your claim is spurious/are general prats and then they can refuse the PIAB ruling which means that the decision to engage a solicitor is then up to you.

I firmly disagree that employing this solicitor will assist or boost your PIAB award in any way, shape or form.  If that was the case, then everybody would use one!!!


----------



## futuresailor (10 Mar 2010)

babaduck said:


> I think your solicitor is lying. Most insurers will prefer to deal with PIAB as it makes life easier for them, unless they think your claim is spurious/are general prats and then they can refuse the PIAB ruling which means that the decision to engage a solicitor is then up to you.


 
Really? As for the claim, it is rock solid, liability is admitted and all that remains is the extent of my injuries (long term etc). I am not sure the insurance company want to go to piab as they have already been pressurising me to settle, albeit not for very much so far, and have suggested that 'Of course there is no need for legal representation', which made me immediately think 'I need legal representation!'. 

So on one hand I have the insurance company piling on the pressure to settle fast and on the other I have the advice of a solicitor saying that if I hire her she will promise me the earth for the mere sum of €2500!



babaduck said:


> I firmly disagree that employing this solicitor will assist or boost your PIAB award in any way, shape or form. If that was the case, then everybody would use one!!!


 
So would you recommend me to steer clear of solicitors altogether or is there much chance of finding a cheaper one?


----------



## Vacuum Box (10 Mar 2010)

My gf had an accident ~ 2 years ago, went through  solictor, waste of time if you ask me, as other posters have stated, go to piab youself, probably more quicker as well...solitors took ~30% of compo...stay well clear of solitors for accidents..


----------



## dereko1969 (10 Mar 2010)

have a look at the PIAB website, it's quite informative and will give you a list of the possible outcomes for you injury type, look through all that and then figure out what you might recieve. The only thing i would suggest is not to lodge your claim too early as particularly with whiplash it is difficult to tell whether there will be ongoing long term damage. You could settle on the basis of short term injury and then find in a year or more that the pain is continuing.
www.injuriesboard.ie


----------



## Neg Covenant (10 Mar 2010)

A solicitor may be be able to give you good advice on the types of medical reports to get or whether you need to wait to see if your condition deteriorates.   Accepting an assessment based on one medical report on a back injury quickly can be a mistake as back injuries often detriorate.   PIAB, the insurers and your doctors will not give you this advice.   You do not want to be left in a situation where the medical care ultimately required exceeds the amount recovered.   Furthermore, a solicitor may help you set out your losses more accurately ensuring they are covered.   Really though, your solicitor should tell you why you need him.   It is probably worth paying for an initial consultation in that regard.   If you are not convinced then you can do it yourself after that.


----------



## futuresailor (10 Mar 2010)

Neg Covenant said:


> A solicitor may be be able to give you good advice on the types of medical reports to get or whether you need to wait to see if your condition deteriorates. Accepting an assessment based on one medical report on a back injury quickly can be a mistake as back injuries often detriorate. PIAB, the insurers and your doctors will not give you this advice. You do not want to be left in a situation where the medical care ultimately required exceeds the amount recovered. Furthermore, a solicitor may help you set out your losses more accurately ensuring they are covered. Really though, your solicitor should tell you why you need him. It is probably worth paying for an initial consultation in that regard. If you are not convinced then you can do it yourself after that.


  Thanks for the comments everyone. I can understand the benefits of having a solicitor and I found the solicitors arguements very convincing, but I am more concerned about the cost. Is it worth paying a solicitor 2500 for a piab agreement? Is that the going rate? Can I do better price wise?
Having never dealt with a solicitor before I dont want to 'get done'. And equally, some people are saying I am better off applying to piab myself.

Through all this so far Im beginning to get the feeling that I am the little guy and the legal profession and the insurance companies are both out for themselves more than they are for me and if im not careful i'll 'get done' by both. Seems like a terrible system


----------



## seantheman (10 Mar 2010)

Plenty of solicitors sitting on their hands at the moment, Why dont you try and get another couple of quotes?


----------



## InjuriesBoard.ie (11 Mar 2010)

futuresailor said:


> Thanks for the comments everyone. I can understand the benefits of having a solicitor and I found the solicitors arguements very convincing, but I am more concerned about the cost. Is it worth paying a solicitor 2500 for a piab agreement? Is that the going rate? Can I do better price wise?
> Having never dealt with a solicitor before I dont want to 'get done'. And equally, some people are saying I am better off applying to piab myself.
> 
> Through all this so far Im beginning to get the feeling that I am the little guy and the legal profession and the insurance companies are both out for themselves more than they are for me and if im not careful i'll 'get done' by both. Seems like a terrible system


 
In respose to your last comment, you should be aware that InjuriesBoard.ie is the *independent* State agency which assesses  compensation for personal injuries.

The Board's assessment i.e. the level of compensation awarded, is based on the medical report(s) submitted by your treating doctor and the report(s) of the independent medical examiner(s) when sought by InjuriesBoard.ie.  Using that medical evidence and having regard to the Book of Quantum http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/Estimator/ the assessors will make their decision and notify both parties.

You can telephone the Board's Service Centre at LoCall 1890 829 121 for more information on the Board's process.


----------



## Neg Covenant (11 Mar 2010)

seantheman said:


> Plenty of solicitors sitting on their hands at the moment, Why dont you try and get another couple of quotes?


 
You get what you pay for!!!   Usually, yellow pack price = yellow pack service.


----------



## a lawyer (11 Mar 2010)

as a matter of interest, as the injuriesboard wants to chip in here, will the OP be told not to take legal advice when he rings the magic helpline?


----------



## dereko1969 (11 Mar 2010)

the OP can take legal advice but will have to pay for it, whether using a solicitor will gain more money than the cost of using one is debatable. given your user name i can guess what your view would be. 
my view is the fact that the OP has already been given dodgy advice in relation to settling a case prior to PIAB adjudication would make me think that the OP should not use that solicitor - perhaps the injuriesboard person could clarify that once a valid claim is submitted that it always proceeds to adjudication whether the parties agree a settlement anyway or not?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (11 Mar 2010)

futuresailor said:


> Through all this so far Im beginning to get the feeling that I am the little guy and the legal profession and the insurance companies are both out for themselves more than they are for me and if im not careful i'll 'get done' by both. Seems like a terrible system



Hello Sailor

The system now is a lot better than it used to be. Before the Injuries Board, you had to use a solicitor and had to take the case to court. It would take years and involve huge costs and uncertainty.

Now you can go directly to the Injuries Board without a solicitor. You can settle beforehand if you both agree. If you don't like the award from the Injuries Board, you can go to court. 

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess (11 Mar 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> perhaps the injuriesboard person could clarify that once a valid claim is submitted that it always proceeds to adjudication whether the parties agree a settlement anyway or not?



My understanding would be that once a claim is settled,the claimant withdraws their claim and the Injuries Board is no longer involved.


Brendan


----------



## curlygirl (11 Mar 2010)

Hey futuresailor, I'll come straight out and say that I am a solicitor but for what it is worth, the price quoted seems fair enough. It would certainly be in line with what we would charge. It seems fair that the solicitor is willing to charge on a sliding scale -price dependant upon what stage the case gets resolved at, would strike me as a fair charging system. You'll just be paying for the work that has been done. 

In relation to whether you need a solicitor, as I said above my views may seem a bit biased but for what it's worth I'd say the following;- 

1) It would seem that the accident was quite recent and that you suffered a serious enough injury, as you are off work and on pain meds etc. Insurance Companies (I would do some Defence work) love to settle claims very early before a lawyer is involved. This is for the simple reason, that once a claim is settled or resolved it is over - there is no second bite of the cherry so to speak. So if you later find out that it's taken you much longer to recover, that you need much more physio than you initally thought or that you have complications or even additional medical costs.. there is pretty much nothing that you can do. 

2) You could get your G.P. to do up a medical report and these are normally in the region of about €250.00. It would normally be the practice of solicitors to send you to specialists though and to update these reports so that they can see how your injury is recovering, what the prognosis is, if any additional tests - such as an MRI needs to be carried out etc. Most of these specialists charge in the region of €450.00 / €550.00 per Report. No solicitor is going to settle a case without knowing exactly what the injury is, what the future risk of complications are, what your costs are likely to be - physio etc. A lot of firms will discharge these outlays and then be re-imbursed from the insurance company in the event that it settles or get some of the costs back from PIAB. Solicitors can be benefically in this process as they know the relevant experts, most solicitors will discharge the costs of your medical reports and they can also agree to give undertakings etc to physio's that they you will pay them at the end of the matter - meaning that you get the necessary treatment when you need it and the physio etc is happy that they will get paid. A lot of people after an accident and especially if they are out of work due to the accident, often just cannot afford to pay the relevant specialists / MRI scans etc. Having your solicitor look after these can be a weight lifted, at the time.     

3) The PIAB can only assess your claim on the basis of the information that they have before it - I would be uncomfortable with the injuries board deciding on a case with the benefit of one G.P. Report. It would be my view that they would not have a full view of the injury. Obviously, if it is a very straight forward injury, one report may be sufficient, but I have seen some G.P. Reports where quite simply, the G.P. is not used to writing medical legal reports and it shows. Around here alot of the G.P.'s Reports are handwritten and not very detailed (but I would work in the country, with older G.P.'s)

4) I would also normally, in addition to the Personal Injury claim, try to resolve the material damage aspect of your claim - your car damage. Solicitors can negotiate on this and ensure that you get car hire, depreciation etc. 


5) In the event that you get an offer from the insurance company, you will also get the benefit of the solicitors experience - is this a good offer, would it be within the normal range for the injury that you have etc. They will also be able to negotiate for you and potentially get you a better deal. Similarly, if you do receive an award from PIAB - they will be able to advise you on this and whether you should accept it or not, the pros and cons of accepting or rejecting a reward and so on. 

6) Of course people can represent themselves and it is certainly their right - the fact of the matter is some people are much better at collecting receipts, itemising their medical expenses, responding to PIAB, calculating their loss of earnings and so on than other people. Only you can know if that is something that you think that you'd be good at and organised with. 

Dereko1969 - the solicitor which the O.P. approached did not give him "dodgy advice".. Personal Injuries claims do have to go through PIAB, but if liability is disputed PIAB won't assess the claim, similarly, insurance companies can approach plaintiffs (as they have here) before the claim gets submitted to PIAB to try and settle it. Insurance companies can also make "without prejudice" (off the record effectively) offers at any stage throughout the PIAB process, before the Board come back with an award. 

Anyways futuresailor, best of luck with everything and hopefully you'll be feeling better soon. I hope the above is of some help to you. Hate when I see genuine question threads being hijacked for a good old solicitor bashing. The way I see it, your paying a professional for the benefit of their advice and experience and their assistance. 

If I were you and you decided to engage a solicitor ask around as to whom other people found good - word of mouth is better than anything I find. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys, but that's not to say that the most expensive solicitor is the best! I wouldn't cut my prices to rock bottom, for the simple reason that I want to give a good service, which means responding to your telephone calls when you ring, keeping you updated on your case and so on... quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten and all that. 

best of luck and let us know what you decide..


----------



## MandaC (11 Mar 2010)

A  family member had a serious accident over 5 years ago and it was settled last week, thankfully.

Appointed a solicitor from the outset, as it was fairly obvious that it was not going to be settled by PIAB as it was complicated.

Five years later, but still owed some costs to own solicitor.

There were a number of medical reports which the Solicitor settled on behalf of client (I think three at 150 per time, to include these and the PIAB application and some initial letters was about 900 plus VAT)

Very reasonable and worth it.


----------



## InjuriesBoard.ie (12 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> My understanding would be that once a claim is settled,the claimant withdraws their claim and the Injuries Board is no longer involved.
> 
> 
> Brendan


 
Brendan is correct.  If the claim is settled between the parties and the Board is notified, there is no need to make an assessment and the file is closed.


----------



## futuresailor (12 Mar 2010)

First off, thank you very much CurlyGirl for your post, very informative and well put together. You answered a lot of my queries there.
And thanks to everyone else also.

I also rang the injuriesboard, who cleared up some questions I had on filling out forms etc, but they were very cagey on some other questions and refused to answer them( e.g. Which medical professional should I get to fill out the form (a/e or current gp) should I include a physio report? If my shoulder and neck are injured, using the estimator which one should I look to as a guide award? for assessing when the  ins co makes an offer). Not answering those questions kinda of makes one feel that you need legal advice.

At the moment I guess I'll just have to decide for myself whether I feel competent enough to take the case to the injuriesboard alone. A solicitor would, as was said, make things easier. So I'll probably think it over for the next week or so. Thankfully Im finally beginning to feel some improvement in my injuries after nearly 3 weeks (valium is great stuff!) Hope to go back to work halftime next week!


----------



## nuac (12 Mar 2010)

As a practisng solicitor of 30++ years experience I agree with Curlygirl's remarks.

Any type of whiplash type injury arising from a violent rear-ender may take a long time to clear up. Apart from seeing the GP and getting physio the patient may gave to incur further expense in MRI scans, pain management specialists, rehabilitation consultants, actuaries etc etc.

Can take years to clear up, and depending on age and other factors may never wholly clear up. There will be numerous reports to process and exchange with the other side, and Notices for Particulars and Discovery to be dealt with.

A personal injuries action can be a long and difficult saga. You do need an experienced solicitor in your corner.


----------

