# Quarantine on visitors from abroad?



## Brendan Burgess (27 May 2020)

I am trying to understand why countries have 14 days quarantine on visitors from abroad.

OK, if Ireland is virus-free and China is the epicentre, then we should ban or quarantine visitors from China.

But why is Britain with a high incidence of the virus banning visitors from countries with a much lower level? 

If we had quarantined everywhere back in October, it would have worked. 

And if Ireland becomes virus-free, it might be necessary to keep the virus out. 

But if we allow travel within Ireland at some stage, why would we not allow travel from outside Ireland? 

Brendan


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## Sunny (27 May 2020)

I dont get it either Brendan after listening at the start of the crisis that we cant act unilaterally with regard borders as part of the EU. I struggle to reconcile the ecomonic cost of this decision with the health risk involved of visiting a lot of European Countries.


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## Leper (27 May 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am trying to understand why countries have 14 days quarantine on visitors from abroad.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...


The mind boggles . . . but in the UK banning other countries (no matter how well that country handled the virus situation) deflects public attention from the doings of the Prime Minister and his underlings. [just my opinion].


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## Leo (28 May 2020)

I suspect it's just designed to discourage travel and keep numbers of tourists low. Just a very blunt sledgehammer approach as there is no workable scalpel option to target just those who might be carrying the virus.


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## odyssey06 (28 May 2020)

Leo said:


> I suspect it's just designed to discourage travel and keep numbers of tourists low. Just a very blunt sledgehammer approach as there is no workable scalpel option to target just those who might be carrying the virus.



Yep and not just visitors, I'd say also aimed at Irish people thinking of going abroad who might think twice about having to isolate for 2 weeks on return.


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## PM9999 (6 Jun 2020)

Unless I've either misread the SI or missed another SI that fills the gap, the law seems to make it a legal requirement only to fill in a "passenger locator form" indicating your whereabouts for 14 days. I can't find any reference to a 14 day quarantine period either in the statute or on the form itself. The locator form instructions even contemplate that you might relocate somewhere else during the 14 days, which hardly seems to be quarantine. It seems to have been constructed with contact tracing in mind and not quarantine. Have I missed something?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/181/made/en/print


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## Laramie (29 Jun 2020)

An interesting thread here from TripAdvisor.


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## joe sod (15 Jul 2020)

The government is going to publish the green list of countries on monday where we can travel without having to do quarantine on return. I presume the UK safelist would be a good guide, you are allowed to travel to Spain , Greece, France, Germany,Poland, Netherlands and Italy and Croatia without quarantine on return. What are the safest countries of these because presumably they will definitely be on irish green list.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2020)

A|re there any private testing facilities available? If someone arrives in Dublin airport can they get a test done and isolate until the results are in?


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## Nutso (16 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> A|re there any private testing facilities available? If someone arrives in Dublin airport can they get a test done and isolate until the results are in?


I would be also interested in finding out about such a facility, if anyone is aware of it.  I think it would make great sense to have everyone tested on arrival at the airport, send them to self-isolate and give them their results once they come in.  It wouldn't catch every infection but it would catch a lot more than they are catching at the moment.


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## Leo (16 Jul 2020)

The tests don't detect the virus early in the incubation period, so you'd need to test again a week or more later.

I haven't heard of any private swabbing service, there are some FDA approved self-check kits in the states costing around $120, but the challenge here is the majority of people won't go deep enough with the swab to get a proper sample. A lot of the false negative results are being attributed to poor swab technique. Saliva tests are being developed that will greatly simplify that though.

I believe most of the private labs with the capability were taken over / are contracted to support state testing. Earlier this month the HSE said they had 46 different public and private labs around the country giving them a capacity of 15,000 tests a day at a cost of €450M this year. In the first few days of July, Dublin airport was seeing 9,500 passengers a day, (2019 average was over 90k a day) so we'd need to be building more labs and training a lot more testers to offer significant levels of testing there.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> The tests don't detect the virus early in the incubation period, so you'd need to test again a week or more later.
> 
> I haven't heard of any private swabbing service, there are some FDA approved self-check kits in the states costing around $120, but the challenge here is the majority of people won't go deep enough with the swab to get a proper sample. A lot of the false negative results are being attributed to poor swab technique. Saliva tests are being developed that will greatly simplify that though.
> 
> I believe most of the private labs with the capability were taken over / are contracted to support state testing. Earlier this month the HSE said they had 46 different public and private labs around the country giving them a capacity of 15,000 tests a day at a cost of €450M this year. In the first few days of July, Dublin airport was seeing 9,500 passengers a day, (2019 average was over 90k a day) so we'd need to be building more labs and training a lot more testers to offer significant levels of testing there.


I think that may be the medium term solution. We need to plan for living with Covid19 for the next few years and construct the infrastructure we need accordingly. Fast reliable testing is paramount if we are to reopen the country.


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## Leo (16 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> Fast reliable testing is paramount if we are to reopen the country.



Yeah, the current nasal / throat swab tests won't get us there. Needs to be easy enough to be a reliable self-test, ideally without the need for lab processing.


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## odyssey06 (16 Jul 2020)

Note that the advice has changed that arrivals from abroad should only "*restrict their movements*" rather than completely self-isolate \ cocoon.

The HSE advice currently states that – aside from some limited exceptions – anyone entering Ireland must restrict their movements for 14 days.
The advice, on the HSE website, states: “Restricting your movements means staying at home and avoiding contact with other people and social situations as much as possible.” Currently, people should not:

Use public transport
Visit others
Meet face-to-face with anyone who is at a higher risk from Covid-19
Go to the shop unless absolutely necessary.









						Tánaiste questions confusion over 'quarantine' for passengers - but HSE advice changed this month
					

HSE advice shifted from self-isolation to asking people to restrict movements.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## joe sod (17 Jul 2020)

What are the 8 countries in Europe with the lowest corona virus rates over last 14 days. It's actually not an easy statistic to find out because countries like Germany are not that low in numbers but have large population so are reasonably safe. The statistics for corona virus per capita show the total corona virus incidence since the start which are useless, it's the statistics for last 2 weeks that's important


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## joe sod (20 Jul 2020)

Government still faffing about in this and can't make a decision on the green list, they only using Michael Martin being in Brussels as an excuse. Can fly back through Belfast anyways and drive back down


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## Purple (20 Jul 2020)

joe sod said:


> Government still faffing about in this and can't make a decision on the green list, they only using Michael Martin being in Brussels as an excuse. Can fly back through Belfast anyways and drive back down


Yea, we need a hard border with the UK. Build a Wall and make the Brits pay for it!


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## Leo (20 Jul 2020)

Has anyone seen suggestions from those calling for a full quarantine of visitors arriving from abroad on how it might actually work?


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## Purple (20 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> Has anyone seen suggestions from those calling for a full quarantine of visitors arriving from abroad on how it might actually work?


I heard a discussion on the wireless and the gist of it was that they should be bussed/transported to a hotel which the State rents and kept there for 14 days. There's plenty of hotels near the airport. 
I'd prefer testing them at arrival (even if that's in a local hotel) and letting them go on their merry way a few hours later if they don't have the disease. If they do have it we could treat them/ deport them/ shoot them. The full cost should be covered by the traveller.


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## Leo (20 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> I heard a discussion on the wireless and the gist of it was that they should be bussed/transported to a hotel which the State rents and kept there for 14 days. There's plenty of hotels near the airport.



Yeah, I'm not sure they've really thought it through. Dublin would need about 100k extra bed spaces to accommodate current arrival numbers at Dublin airport for 14 days. Testing is unlikely to become sensitive enough to detect the virus in the first few days of infection so you then have the challenge of how to stop these hotels becoming hotbeds of transmission with more infected people leaving them than arrive.


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## Purple (20 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure they've really thought it through. Dublin would need about 100k extra bed spaces to accommodate current arrival numbers at Dublin airport for 14 days. Testing is unlikely to become sensitive enough to detect the virus in the first few days of infection so you then have the challenge of how to stop these hotels becoming hotbeds of transmission with more infected people leaving them than arrive.


We could send them all over the country and fill up all the hotels. Sure what harm could come of that?


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## joer (20 Jul 2020)

Is it true that Greece have designated hotels and other places for the arriving people, who are tested at the airport . They get their results in two days and depending on the results they either carry on with their holiday or stay there for the 14 days. I heard that this was the case but i am not sure if it is true. It would be worth hearing from someone who has come back from there. So it might be an option if it is successful there.


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## Leo (20 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> We could send them all over the country and fill up all the hotels. Sure what harm could come of that?



Oh, I just foresee Amnesty getting on our case for forcing people to spend 2 weeks isolating in some backwater joint!


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## Leo (20 Jul 2020)

joer said:


> Is it true that Greece have designated hotels and other places for the arriving people, who are tested at the airport .



No, it isn't. Current measures state you must complete a passenger locator form (PLF) 24+ hours in advance of stating where you will be staying, you will have to present the QR code generated on arrival where you go through screening. Some will be selected for a COVID-19 test. Once tested they will be allowed exit the airport as normal, but will he asked to self-isolate at the address provided on the PLF for ~24 hours until they receive the test results.


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## joer (20 Jul 2020)

Thanks Leo. That clears that up.


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## joe sod (22 Jul 2020)

At last the Green list countries published

The countries are: Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy. Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia/Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco, San Marino.

Actually a good choice and fairly sensible, it was daft to even consider going like New Zealand a group of islands out in the middle of the pacific, we are in the EU whether we like it or not.


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## SlurrySlump (22 Jul 2020)

I'm not sure why they bothered to include San Marino, Gibraltar, Greenland and Monaco.  Most people would need to fly to Spain to get to Gibraltar. Fly to France to get to Monaco. Greenland but not Iceland. I suppose they wanted to make the list look longer and more impressive.


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## joer (22 Jul 2020)

And still the Gov say it should only be for essential travel. So I do not think insurance will cover non essential travel even to any of these, green,  countries.


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## Purple (22 Jul 2020)

SlurrySlump said:


> I'm not sure why they bothered to include San Marino, Gibraltar, Greenland and Monaco.  Most people would need to fly to Spain to get to Gibraltar. Fly to France to get to Monaco. Greenland but not Iceland. I suppose they wanted to make the list look longer and more impressive.


Maybe they were just selecting countries and territories based on their infection rate.


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## Duke of Marmalade (22 Jul 2020)

SlurrySlump said:


> I'm not sure why they bothered to include San Marino, Gibraltar, Greenland and Monaco.  Most people would need to fly to Spain to get to Gibraltar. Fly to France to get to Monaco. Greenland but not Iceland. I suppose they wanted to make the list look longer and more impressive.


Well actually it is people coming from these parts that are exempted but I take your point.  It seems the height of silliness to include, say, San Marino.  In fact San Marino has the highest death rate in the World according to the official survey.  Okay it has possibly flattened its curve.  All the same 1 death tomorrow would be equivalent to 150 deaths in Ireland.
Take France.  It is split into over 80 departments, all of which are vastly more populous than San Marino.  The vast majority of these Departments are in a far better place re COVID than Ireland yet they are all out of bounds whilst San Marino, Monaco, Gibraltar make the cut. Go figure.


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## odyssey06 (22 Jul 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Take France.  It is split into over 80 departments, all of which are vastly more populous than San Marino.  The vast majority of these Departments are in a far better place re COVID than Ireland yet they are all out of bounds whilst San Marino, Monaco, Gibraltar make the cut. Go figure.



I'd be more inclined to agree with you but our previous experience in Italy with regional level restrictions didn't work out too well... Unless a country has strong restrictions on moving between regions it makes sense to assess them at national level.


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## Duke of Marmalade (22 Jul 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> I'd be more inclined to agree with you but our previous experience in Italy with regional level restrictions didn't work out too well... Unless a country has strong restrictions on moving between regions it makes sense to assess them at national level.


Well I accept that to discriminate between different French Departments is not a practical proposition.  But the idea of a separate treatment of folk who come from San Marino or Monaco or Gibraltar is also most impractical as well as being entirely irrelevant.


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## odyssey06 (22 Jul 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Well I accept that to discriminate between different French Departments is not a practical proposition.  But the idea of a separate treatment of folk who come from San Marino or Monaco or Gibraltar is also most impractical as well as being entirely irrelevant.



San Marino safe - it borders green country Italy.
Monaco is a bit of a grey area as it borders Italy (green) and France (not green). Given it's quasi status as part of France I think it should have been excluded.
Gibraltar only accessible from Ireland via Spain or UK, should have been excluded.


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## Duke of Marmalade (22 Jul 2020)

I'm still very confused.  It seems that places like Gibraltar, Monaco and San Marino have their own passports which distinguish them from say French departments which do not have different passports.  So putting Italy on a Green list does not automatically include San Marino or The Vatican even though these are in Italy.  This emphasis on the passport would seem to suggest that it is the citizenship of the traveller that matters rather than of where they have come from.
But that is not what the regulations say.  They distinctly refer to people entering from countries on the Green list into Ireland.  Nobody (except possibly _Purple_) enters Ireland from Monaco, San Marino, Gibraltar or Greenland.  The Real Taoiseach was right, they shouldn't have bothered with this Green list.


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## EmmDee (22 Jul 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> ... San Marino or The Vatican even though these are in Italy.



They're not though. One is a separate republic and the other is a distinct city state

Just on the travel question, I believe they look at the origination of a journey. So if you fly to Dublin via Heathrow, you are treated from where you start - not UK. As far as I know


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## odyssey06 (22 Jul 2020)

If you are only in the airport terminal you are not judged to have been in the airport country.
But if you go through customs at the airport, then get a train from that country to another country, you are judged to have been in the airport country.


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## joe sod (24 Jul 2020)

Leo varadker has said that you can now travel to green list countries also for non essential reasons. Also some insurance companies say they will cover green list countries. Obviously the government realizes they have to start opening the country to travel and the safest European countries are the first step


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## odyssey06 (25 Jul 2020)

Just noting that in France,  on-the-spot testing will be rolled out for travellers arriving in France from 16 high-risk countries.


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