# Laneway Maintenance: farmer not contributing damaging surface with skid steer vehicle



## dantheman (10 Dec 2012)

I live on a shared laneway, it was a bend in the old road which got straightened a long time ago.

When we moved here the laneway was in a poor state. We spent a lot of money improving the lane, including opening up an overgrown section to get access to drains. The cost was shared between the residents of this part of the lane.

A local farmer who didn't contribute to the work has lately started to use the lane with a heavy machine (not a tractor but a skid steer vehicle, up to four times a day every day and it really beginning to have an impact on the surface of the lane).

Before we improved the lane he never used it as it was impassable to his farm yard. He is now using it to get from his farm to the road even though he always used the other end of the lane before, he has no fields off this part of the lane.

My question is can we stop him, since it's an old road I presume we can't. I don't mind him driving his jeep its just this machine I object to. 

My other question is who is responsible for the upkeep of the lane. The residents were very happy to share the cost until this started but we'd be fools to invest more money in the lane while he is abusing it.

We tried to reason with him but he is beyond reason and known far and wide for being difficult. We will probably have to go to a solicitor but I would prefer not to, because of the cost and good neighborhood relations.


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## Importer (10 Dec 2012)

Two questions

Who owns the laneway
Who has right of way to use it


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## WizardDr (10 Dec 2012)

From what you say this is a public roadway that was effectively abandoned.

How long ago?

Has it been fenced off in any way?


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## dantheman (10 Dec 2012)

The 'new road' was built some time between the 1830 map and the 1912? map - so a long time ago! This is effectively what used to be a large bend in the old road.

The lane has been used by the residents and has never been fenced off or obstructed. But it was overgrown and impassable beyond our house until we did the work on the drains.


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## dantheman (10 Dec 2012)

Importer said:


> Two questions
> 
> Who owns the laneway
> Who has right of way to use it



The lane is owned by those owning the property on either side, which is us, our neighbours and a different farmer.

There is no registered right of way - as far as we could establish. But one farmer owns a field beside our house has always accessed this field via the lane. The problem farmer was not using the lane for some years, but started when we cleared the lane to work on the drains. He apparently used to use the lane in the past - but that'll all a bit vague I'm afraid.

The lane is effectively a loop off the road and the centre of the loop had fallen into disuse. He is at one end of the area that was overgrown and we're at the other. We use our end of the lane and he used to use his but has now started to come past our house aswell.

Sorry I know it's a bit confusing but it is complicated!


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## Sandals (11 Dec 2012)

From asking himself, one can get low friction wheels as this piece of machine on tracks will "rip" road surfaces, especially if its going over same surface again and again. 

Check does he need insurance to drive this vehicle. You could check with the Gardai also for any info. 

We hired a boom lift on wheels (cutting neighbours trees at our own expense) few months ago, didnt have insurance to go on main road with it. Had to sign a piece paper stating driver had ticket to drive machinery. (Prior to this we hired a cherry picker with tracks and the pads of this left little depression marks on the our tarmac.)


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2012)

dantheman said:


> . He apparently used to use the lane in the past - but that'll all a bit vague I'm afraid.
> 
> !


 

There's your problem, looks like he too has a right of way.  

Only way to solve it is by involving solicitors.  You have to decide if you want to fight him and go to the cost and stress of this.  And risk losing too.  Other option is to appeal to his better nature and apparently that is a no go either.  Next option is to live with it.  Final option is to make the way impassable again. So you need to make a decision on what will make your life better.  

Personally I'd be thinking the farmer who has been there generations is going to win so don't take on the battle.


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## Dr.Debt (11 Dec 2012)

Forget about solicitors. Will probably inflame the whole situation,, will cost you pucks of money,lots of energy and result in even more ill feeling.

Only solution is through negotiation with the man himself and if that doesn't work you will have to live with it.


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## ajapale (11 Dec 2012)

Out of interest has the road ever been improved under the aegis of the Local Authority _*Local Road Improvement Scheme*_?

I think funding is no longer available for such schemes but if one was used in the past it might help clarify the situation.

If the farmer is causing physical damage to the roadway it might be possible to follow him for the damage.



> A Local Improvement Scheme is a scheme for carrying out improvement works on private/non-public roads.
> The Co. Council may provide assistance by way of carrying out works on  roads which are eligible for Local Improvement Schemes.
> 
> *Eligibility *
> ...


also from citizens advice although in a different context. What you have is a *public right away along a private lane*.



> There is a distinction in Irish law between public and private rights of way. A public right of way is a person's right of passage along a road or path, even if the road or path is not in public ownership. A private right of way is the right to enter onto private lands, but only for the purposes of gaining access to or exiting from another piece of land.


again and also in a different context.



> Section 24 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2002 added new rules governing criminal trespass to the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994. It is now a criminal offence for anyone to enter, occupy or bring anything onto privately owned land or land owned by local authorities if that act is likely to
> 
> 
> Substantially damage the land
> ...


Maybe a trip to your solicitor or perhaps FLAC might be advisable?


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## Dermot (11 Dec 2012)

Sorry to hear of your predicament dantheman. I would be very inclined to take the advice of Bronte and Dr Debt. I presume that roadway that you are talking about is on a map and was at one time in the "care" of the local authority. You could  call to your local authority offices and establish the situation with the aid of a helpful engineer. He/she might give you guidance off the record. You could ask your local councillor to give you the name of some one who would help you in the councils office. If as I fear that it is an abandoned piece of roadway you and your neighbours might get some intermediary locally to act as go between. I get your picture about this individual as the ad says "there is always one". Good luck to you.


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## WizardDr (11 Dec 2012)

@dantheman

There is a concept in law called 'adverse possession' and according to the Statute of Limitations 1957 section 13 sets outs that no action shall be brought by a State Authority to recover any land after the expiration of thirty years from the date on which the right of action accrued..

What struck me is who owns the land ..and then had you acquired it by adverse possession?

Your 'ownership' may have been established if the LA abandoned the road over 30 years ago and has done nothing since. You say 'long ago' ..how long ago and as other contributors have mentioned - what did the LA do, if anything, in the last 30 years. 

Even if this farmer had a 'right of way' and thats debatable, he is not entitled to damage the road .. its not straight forward..

But there is where you must get legal advice so that you know what your actual position is. You are in a far better position then to 'negotiate' with you farming neighbour about the situation.

Is he even aware of the situation or are you all so polite that he is wallowing in ignorance.

If one of you is a professional you could get a Barristers opinion through the direct access route or else get a good solicitor.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Dec 2012)

Can you block access to the rest of the lane?


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## ajapale (11 Dec 2012)

ajapale said:


> What you have is a *public right away along a private lane*.



Adverse possession does not arise in this instance.


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## dantheman (11 Dec 2012)

Thanks for all the feedback.

The council refused to take the lane in charge and it appears they were never responsible for it.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is who is responsible for upkeep of such a lane? Is it the residents or anyone using it?


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## RichInSpirit (11 Dec 2012)

You could ask your man to pay something towards the upkeep of the road.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Dec 2012)

I expect that's not a runner...



dantheman said:


> ...We tried to reason with him but he is beyond reason and known far and wide for being difficult. We will probably have to go to a solicitor but I would prefer not to, because of the cost and good neighborhood relations.



If responsiblity for the road cannot be established easily, and you have to resort to eye watering expensive legal means to force him to be reasonable. Why not do the opposite. Wait for him to take the legal route to stop you being unreasonable. Block access from his side?


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## Importer (11 Dec 2012)

You have to deliver your message to the "bad boy" through someone that he likes and / or respects. The message will need to be unthreatening and reasonable. This is your best chance of a result

Dont under any circumstances gang up against him. That will just bring him out fighting.

You say that the ownership of the lane is with the Residents however its unclear to me how this ownership came about. It seems unlikely that the bad boy will have too much difficulty in defending his right of way to use the laneway based on years of useage.

If it ever goes to court a Judge might rule that its not unreasonable for a farmer to use heavy equipment on a laneway that he has a "right" to pass through. 

In summary I would advise you to avoid the legal solution. You're not holding all the cards so you cant expect a clean "win"


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## AlbacoreA (11 Dec 2012)

I don't really understand that that of thought...



Importer said:


> ...Dont under any circumstances gang up against him. That will just bring him out fighting...



Is he not doing that already if hes destroying the surface that he didn't contribute to, and knows others have spend a lot of money on. 



Importer said:


> ...It seems unlikely that the bad boy will have too much difficulty in defending his right of way to use the laneway based on years of useage....



How so? What usage?

"Before we improved the lane he never used it as it was impassable to his farm yard"

I don't think someone with this guys attitude is going to fundamentally change their habits of a lifetime.


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## ajapale (11 Dec 2012)

dantheman said:


> The council refused to take the lane in charge and it appears they were never responsible for it.
> 
> I suppose what I'm really wondering is who is responsible for upkeep of such a lane? Is it the residents or anyone using it?



The council don't own it (and wont take it in charge) but they do subsidise the maintenance of similar "*private roads with public rights of way*".

In general, in rural Ireland, the owners of the adjoining land own to the centre of the road.

In your case there is a public right to pass and repass on the road.

It is the responsibility of the owners (adjoining land owners) to maintain the road.

It is the responsibility of the public using the way not to block, damage, dump or interfere with anyone else's right to use the public right of way.

It appears to me that if this farmer in using a "skid steer vehicle" is damaging the road or otherwise interfering with the road then the owners can take a civil case against him for damages. It also might be possible to report the matter to the Guards if an act of Criminal damage has taken place.

I am not a lawyer but I strongly suggest that you at least consult with citizens advise/flac or your own solicitor before acting.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Dec 2012)

The Guards might at least have a word with him to be reasonable.


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