# US upset at Ireland's travel visa policy



## Latrade (8 Jul 2009)

Whoever said that the Americans don't understand irony:

[broken link removed]

So despite all the hoops everyone else has to go through to have a weekend in New York, when a couple of Americans are sent back it's a disgrace.

Obviously the Gardai missed the memo that said the Americans can go wherever they want irrespective of local immigration/travel rules.

Occasionally jobsworths get it spot on.


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## galleyslave (8 Jul 2009)

as you say, plenty of rules apply when we enter the US... these guys couldnt even say where they were staying, one way ticket.. kinda suspicious...


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## Caveat (8 Jul 2009)

Latrade said:


> So despite all the hoops everyone else has to go through to have a weekend in New York


 
I refuse to visit the country because of this - and I know many people who feel the same.


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## Latrade (8 Jul 2009)

Caveat said:


> I refuse to visit the country because of this - and I know many people who feel the same.


 
Yup last time I went it was a fairly tense interrogation about hotel, address, how many nights etc. But I find a different approach depending on different states, some are much more pleasant in their dealings. 

I can image the response in Texas if I went over unable to say how long I was staying, where I was staying and how much money I had. 

Still, when I think of American backpackers, I'm always minded of American Werewolf in London. Maybe it's part of the travel visa process, controlling rabies and mass consumption of members of the public.


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## markpb (8 Jul 2009)

One of my recent trips, my brother and I ended up getting split up in the Immigration area so we were in different queues. When asked who he was travelling with and unable to point me out, he was detained until I returned to see what the delay was. Until Americans find out how they treat their tourists, they will always express shock at events like this.


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## gillarosa (8 Jul 2009)

Caveat said:


> I refuse to visit the country because of this - and I know many people who feel the same.


 
I totally agree and I lived there once, since Homeland Security was established and took over the roll or the INS at border control since 9/11 its been unpleasant at best to enter the US.


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## elefantfresh (8 Jul 2009)

> I refuse to visit the country because of this - and I know many people who feel the same.



I understand that its a pain in the behind getting into the states (I've been many times) however, to exclude visiting such a vast and interesting country for this reason, in my opinion is a little over the top. I hear what you're saying though - i've been through the wringer on one particular occasion which i did not enjoy whatsoever but in my opinion its worth it.


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## csirl (8 Jul 2009)

A bunch of unemployed people with no family responsibilities or property in their own countries turn up at the borders of another country with no return tickets, no accommodation, no money etc. - what did they expect?


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## galleyslave (8 Jul 2009)

no sympathy then... nothing to see here.. move along please *G*


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## Caveat (8 Jul 2009)

elefantfresh said:


> I understand that its a pain in the behind getting into the states (I've been many times) however, to exclude visiting such a vast and interesting country for this reason, in my opinion is a little over the top. I hear what you're saying though - i've been through the wringer on one particular occasion which i did not enjoy whatsoever but in my opinion its worth it.


 
I had already been prior to the current arrangements anyway.

Generally, I would have some interest in visiting again but not under present circumstances.

There are plenty of other countries I would prefer to visit anyway so it's no loss to me.


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## galleyslave (8 Jul 2009)

Caveat said:


> There are plenty of other countries I would prefer to visit anyway so it's no loss to me.



thats the thing, it's a big world out there and if the USA makes it a chore to visit, we can go elsewhere...

of course, they think so much of their country they probably find it inconceivable that we would chose to go somewhere else


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## MOB (8 Jul 2009)

I certainly agree that in general what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  BUT, according to the linked newspaper article these tourists say that they told immigration officials that they had "thousands of dollars" in their bank accounts and offered to go online and demonstrate their solvency ( an offer which was, they say, rejected).   

If this was in fact the case, then I would say this:

1.  Certainly it might well have been open to the immigration official to say "sorry kiddo - documentary evidence of funds only and if you didn't bring the documentary evidence with you I'm deporting you"

2.  I can certainly imagine a US immigration official taking exactly such an attitude; BUT

3.  I have to say, it would not fill me with pride to know that an official representing my country had been so unbending.  And if the rules did not allow otherwise, then I am not too proud of those rules either.

Americans love rules.  They obey the law even where there is no good reason to (for example, if an American comes to a four road junction in the middle of nowhere and there is clearly no traffic on any of the four roads, he or she may still very likely stop if there is a Stop sign at the junction.  No Irish person would).  

We are not like that, and on balance I prefer being Irish.  

I hope this case is not connected with some sort of 'work to rule' silliness out in the Airport.


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## Graham_07 (8 Jul 2009)

csirl said:


> A bunch of unemployed people with no family responsibilities or property in their own countries turn up at the borders of another country with no return tickets, no accommodation, no money etc. - what did they expect?


 
If they were Irish and that was Shannon/Dublin and they were heading to USA they wouldn't even have got out of Ireland let alone into a US airport. US immigration would have seen to that. To be fair I can't blame any Irish official for abiding by the rules in such instances. If someone is planning a trip of that nature they should have at least checked the entry policies of their first country of call.


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## Latrade (8 Jul 2009)

MOB said:


> BUT
> 
> 3. I have to say, it would not fill me with pride to know that an official representing my country had been so unbending. And if the rules did not allow otherwise, then I am not too proud of those rules either.


 
I don't agree. The assumption is that just because they're American, they're ok. The fact is if any one of us wanted to go travelling around the world or backpack through America, Australia, etc we would have to make arrangements in advance. You can't just turn up at one destination and with no plans at all. To expect to get into a country with that lack of planning and foresight stinks a tad of arrogance. 

It's just unfortunate from a PR point of view that they landed here first. I cannot see any other country anywhere not treating them the same way.


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## csirl (8 Jul 2009)

> I certainly agree that in general what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. BUT, according to the linked newspaper article these tourists say that they told immigration officials that they had "thousands of dollars" in their bank accounts and offered to go online and demonstrate their solvency ( an offer which was, they say, rejected).


 
I think that the requirements to enter Ireland are a bit more than just having a few thousand dollars in a bank account, so even if this was verified it would make little difference. It appears from reports that they failed the entry requirements for mulitple reasons. These guys are just making excuses for their own stupidity.

Apart from the illegal working aspect - and in spite of what these guys say, I would still think that given that they were planning to spend a year here, that there is a very high likelihood of them working illegally to fund their expenses as it would take more than a few thousand dollars to keep 3 people for a year - there is also the personal safety aspect. Immigration are protecting them from themselves. The whole premise of their trip was that they were going to crash on the sofas of people they never met and dont even know exist who's details they obtained on an internet site. Chances are that at some stage they'd have come a cropper and been left with no accommodation etc. and would have needed the assistance of the authorities to sort them out.


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## Caveat (8 Jul 2009)

Latrade said:


> To expect to get into a country with that lack of planning and foresight stinks a tad of arrogance...
> 
> ...I cannot see any other country anywhere not treating them the same way.


 


csirl said:


> It appears from reports that they failed the entry requirements for mulitple reasons. These guys are just making excuses for their own stupidity.


 
I think it is quite possible that Ireland was deliberately chosen as first port of call as they may have considered it an immigration 'soft touch.'  

These guys weren't gormless stoner backpackers from what I can gather - they must have had at least a fair idea of entry requirements given the policy of their own country.


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## jhegarty (8 Jul 2009)

They say they spent $1000s on flights home. Is it not normally done at the cost of airline ?


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## Graham_07 (8 Jul 2009)

jhegarty said:


> They say they spent $1000s on flights home. Is it not normally done at the cost of airline ?


 
Why should an airline or country have to pay the cost of repatriating someone who didn't even check if they were eligible to come here in the first place ?


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## Pique318 (8 Jul 2009)

jhegarty said:


> They say they spent $1000s on flights home. Is it not normally done at the cost of airline ?


No, it's normally the state that picks up the tab and then they chase you for repayment through the embassy.


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## DublinTexas (8 Jul 2009)

Let’s face it as a non US citizen/passport holder you can’t even enter an aircraft bound for the USA if you have not a preauthorization to do so and that means you need to provide the address of your first accommodation next to other information and then you need to queue for hours to get more questions barked at you. Not a very pleasant experience.

And they don’t accept online banking either, in fact if you even try to use your laptop you might find yourself somewhere where the sun does not shine.

So Ireland mirrors the requirements, as the NIB guys says: the requirements Ireland makes of visiting non-Irish nationals mirrors those made by the US immigration authorities in respect of non-US nationals visiting that jurisdiction.

So let’s reverse this, 3 Irish individuals arrive at the immigration pre-clearance in Dublin after having made up data for their electronic travel authority relying on 1 credit card between the 3 of them, with about 9000$ for a whole years of travel throughout the US and Canada and no return flight ticket either. Does anybody here actually think that there would have been any news on them being told to bugger off and the airline given a hefty fine? Nope I don’t think so.

And what happens now? Several hoteliers in Ireland have offered them all-expense paid trips to return to Ireland. 

Let’s face it. If you have 9000$ for a year, you sooner or later have to work to support your travel and let’s face, once we let them in we have the problem. 

If they for example were trying to go to a Schengen Country next and the border control there does not like them they will be deported back to Ireland not the US because they came via here and then we here have to sort it out.


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## Yorrick (9 Jul 2009)

Lets hope this is the beginning of a tightening up of our emmigration laws. Its just too easy to get into this country. Why do we still have the serf mentality when it comes to foreigners  ?    Every country has its immigration laws and if you meet the necessary requirements you will be allowed entry. There may be ququeing etc involved but thats the norm every where now.
If Irish hoteliers paid more attention to giving good service and value for money they wouldn't have to worrry about a few people being turned back at immigration.


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## AgathaC (9 Jul 2009)

yorrick said:


> if irish hoteliers paid more attention to giving good service and value for money they wouldn't have to worrry about a few people being turned back at immigration.


 +1.


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