# Dual UK and Ireland pensions - legalities?



## BOB HARRISSE

I have a small personal pension in UK. I am also entitled to State pensions from the UK and from Ireland. My question is, am I legally required to advise either State of the other pension? I am not trying to hide it, I simply want to keep my pensions in the country where I earned them. I hope to spend time an equal amount of time in both the UK and Ireland during my retirement.


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## moneybox

Yes you perfectly entitled to take your private pension and your Britush and Irish state pension once you paid enough PRSI/National Insurance contributions in both countries to qualify. Scores of Irish people are legitimately  entitled to both.


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## Gerry Canning

As Moneybox states you are entitled to your monies on pensions but beware Mr Tax man.
You are legally required to declare all income sources and that includes pension(s) income(s)

Because of dual taxation agreements , you will be taxed in (main) residence jurisdiction on the sum total of Euro + £stg pensions.
I understand both UK and ROI authorities are aware of cross-country pensions to ensure they don,t lose taxes (god bless them !)
Might be no harm to ask your local tax office , cause you don,t want war a few years down the road!


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## Marc

you can also top up your UK State Pension if you do not qualify for the maximum by paying voluntary National Insurance Contributions but watch the rules are changing on this

http://askaboutmoney.com/threads/ar...pt-of-a-uk-state-pension.196288/#post-1449765


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## Black Sheep

Just a reminder that State Pensions are not taxed at source in either countries, so if you choose Ireland as your main residence you will need to inform Revenue of your UK pension.(and vice versa) 
My elderly neighbour has recently got a nasty surprise from Revenue. He has been in receipt of a small UK pension for many years and Revenue are tracing it right back and looking for their cut.


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## mct1

BOB HARRISSE said:


> My question is, am I legally required to advise either State of the other pension?


.
The answer to this is in fact yes, you do. I am in exactly this position. I'm 20 years resident here, have a couple of private UK pensions and full basic UK contributory pension and next year I start claiming the Irish Contributory pension. When I discussed my UK pension rights I always dealt with Newcastle. But when I claimed it, I had to apply to Sligo Pensions dept for an EC pensions claim form. I then returned this to them and they forwarded it to the UK. In due course I received the pension (together with back payment). That is how EC pensions are claimed.

The pension is paid from the UK direct into my UK bank account (in Sterling) where much of it stays to fund the time I spend over there - and also as insurance in case the Euro collapses. No tax is deducted in the UK. I then declare the amount together with my other pensions on my annual tax return here. You can keep the money in whichever country you like, but you pay tax on all of it to the country in which you are "resident for tax purposes".


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## Johnjb

mct1 said:


> .
> The answer to this is in fact yes, you do. I am in exactly this position. I'm 20 years resident here, have a couple of private UK pensions and full basic UK contributory pension and next year I start claiming the Irish Contributory pension. When I discussed my UK pension rights I always dealt with Newcastle. But when I claimed it, I had to apply to Sligo Pensions dept for an EC pensions claim form. I then returned this to them and they forwarded it to the UK. In due course I received the pension (together with back payment). That is how EC pensions are claimed.
> 
> The pension is paid from the UK direct into my UK bank account (in Sterling) where much of it stays to fund the time I spend over there - and also as insurance in case the Euro collapses. No tax is deducted in the UK. I then declare the amount together with my other pensions on my annual tax return here. You can keep the money in whichever country you like, but you pay tax on all of it to the country in which you are "resident for tax purposes".



mct1

I'm in pretty much the same situation as you and have beem led to believe that I can claim almost full Uk pension in 3 months and the full irish pension next year, can you confirm that ?


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## mct1

Johnjb, I now receive my full Irish State pension as well as the UK one. Just make sure you claim in time - I was waiting for the Irish pensions dept to contact me whereas the onus was on me to apply. As a result it was a few weeks late starting but was backdated. Fingers crossed that Brexit won't muddy the waters for us!


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## Andyrob

I have a related question about claiming an Irish widows contributory pension for my mother in law - she lives in the UK and while being an Irish citizen never worked in Ireland. My father in law passed away in July and was in receipt of a full UK state pension (he worked in the UK for over 35 years) and a pro rata Irish contributory state pension as he worked in Ireland from 1948 to 1959 which included a pre 1953 top up. I estimate he met the criteria for my mother in law to get an Irish widow's pension (i.e. 260 PRSI contributions post 1953) but am unclear if his contributions meet the yearly average requirement (he did over the 6 years post 1953). His payment also included an increase for a qualified adult for my mother in law as her UK state pension was only £75 a week.

Even though the UK pension authorities provided his full pension record to Sligo when he retired in 1997 - and he then reconfirmed that to get his pre 1953 top up in 2001 Sligo are advising us that we need to claim via the International Pensions Centre in Newcastle? Why do Newcastle need to provide Sligo with his pension records again - when he and they have already done so and this has been the basis of his Irish pension for 20 years? My mothers contributions are not relevant as she never worked in Ireland.

Any thoughts on why Sligo need to be sent information again which they already have? What exactly do the IPC need to provide - his or her UK and Irish records or both?

Thanks!


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## mct1

Have you actually talked to Sligo? They did cause minor havoc during my UK pension claim (by deciding for some unknown reason to change my surname to my husband's) but when I rang them about voluntary PRSI contributions towards my Irish state pension I found them very helpful. Why don't you ask them why they need the information again, and what exactly they want. It's a reasonable question.


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## Lisboa

mct1 said:


> I now receive my full Irish State pension as well as the UK one.



Hi mct, how much tax does one have to pay Revenue if claiming both an Irish and a UK pension?

I can't seem to locate a dual-pension tax rates table on the internet, if one does indeed even exist.
Is it just a standard percentage of the income of both pensions added together?

And is there a threshold amount for those who claim both pensions, but not the full amount, perhaps claiming a full Irish, but just a portion of the UK (or vice versa)?


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## jim

How long would one have had to have worked in the UK to be entitled to a state pension? Or is it more dependant on how much national insurance one paid while living there? I lived and worked there for 3 years.


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## jpd

I* think 3 years is a bit short but you can buy back years if you want. The International Pensions dept in Newcastle are very helpful


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## jpd

Lisboa said:


> Hi mct, how much tax does one have to pay Revenue if claiming both an Irish and a UK pension?
> 
> I can't seem to locate a dual-pension tax rates table on the internet, if one does indeed even exist.
> Is it just a standard percentage of the income of both pensions added together?
> 
> And is there a threshold amount for those who claim both pensions, but not the full amount, perhaps claiming a full Irish, but just a portion of the UK (or vice versa)?



You just enter your pension payments on Form 11 or 12 and they will calculate the tax - if you are getting a UK pension(s) from a job in the private sector, it would normally be paid free of UK tax and be taxed fully in Ireland


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## mct1

Lisboa said:


> Hi mct, how much tax does one have to pay Revenue if claiming both an Irish and a UK pension?
> 
> I can't seem to locate a dual-pension tax rates table on the internet, if one does indeed even exist.
> Is it just a standard percentage of the income of both pensions added together?
> 
> And is there a threshold amount for those who claim both pensions, but not the full amount, perhaps claiming a full Irish, but just a portion of the UK (or vice versa)?



As jpd says. All your income from whatever source - ie any state or private pensions, earnings, investment or savings interest - is entered on your tax form and your tax is calculated by Revenue. You will receive age-related tax credits, the amount depending on the total income (joint income if married). [broken link removed]

I had to complete and submit a form to HMRC to request that my private/occupational UK pensions be paid free of UK tax, but with the UK state pension I'm pretty sure it was automatic.


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## Lisboa

mct1 said:


> As jpd says. All your income from whatever source - ie any state or private pensions, earnings, investment or savings interest - is entered on your tax form and your tax is calculated by Revenue. You will receive age-related tax credits, the amount depending on the total income (joint income if married).



Thanks, yes that's exactly what I was looking for - the age-related exemption limits for income tax.


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## EFCAH84

Is it still possible to receive a full widows contrib pension from here and a small UK state pension of €67. I worked in both countries as did my deceased spouse!


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## Conan

EFCAH84 said:


> Is it still possible to receive a full widows contrib pension from here and a small UK state pension of €67. I worked in both countries as did my deceased spouse!


Yes


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## JoeyMac

Thankfully I qualify for both Irish and UK State Pensions.

When filling in the Irish State Pension (Contributory) SPC 1 form, the following question is asked:

*20. If you ever lived or worked outside the Republic of Ireland, please state:*

Is this solely for my employment in other EU countries, to combine NI contributions from working in the EU?
Or do I include my UK employment here ?

I am concerned including UK employment might affect claiming both Irish and UK pensions


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## mct1

Yes, this would include your UK employment. In order to qualify for a UK state pension you would have to have worked there anyway. And you apply for the UK pension via the Irish Pensions section so it's not like you have to hide one from the other - just state the facts and you should get what you're entitled to. I got both and found the process relatively straightforward - hopefully Brexit (and time) hasn't changed that.


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## cwc456

mct1 said:


> .
> The answer to this is in fact yes, you do. I am in exactly this position. I'm 20 years resident here, have a couple of private UK pensions and full basic UK contributory pension and next year I start claiming the Irish Contributory pension. When I discussed my UK pension rights I always dealt with Newcastle. But when I claimed it, I had to apply to Sligo Pensions dept for an EC pensions claim form. I then returned this to them and they forwarded it to the UK. In due course I received the pension (together with back payment). That is how EC pensions are claimed.
> 
> The pension is paid from the UK direct into my UK bank account (in Sterling) where much of it stays to fund the time I spend over there - and also as insurance in case the Euro collapses. No tax is deducted in the UK. I then declare the amount together with my other pensions on my annual tax return here. You can keep the money in whichever country you like, but you pay tax on all of it to the country in which you are "resident for tax purposes".


Do you mean you get the UK state pension paid into a UK bank account, or did you mean your private pensions only?


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## mct1

cwc456 said:


> Do you mean you get the UK state pension paid into a UK bank account, or did you mean your private pensions only?



Yes, my UK state pension is paid direct into my UK account as well as my NHS and UK private pension. It's a few years ago but I remember that was an option. I transfer some of it here myself using Currencyfair when the exchange rate is favourable.


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## cwc456

mct1 said:


> Yes, my UK state pension is paid direct into my UK account as well as my NHS and UK private pension. It's a few years ago but I remember that was an option. I transfer some of it here myself using Currencyfair when the exchange rate is favourable.


Thanks - good that you can get round exchange rate vulnerability


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