# Croskerrys Solicitors letter demanding full payment of a BoI €18k loan - what next?



## pixiebean22 (11 Aug 2010)

I posted a few days ago saying that I had received a call from Croskerrys solicitors in relation to my Bank of Ireland account.  I sent an e-mail to their general e-mail address requesting that they send me full details either by post or by e-mail and I have since received a letter from them.

In their letter they're demanding (on behalf of Bank of Ireland) full payment of an €18,000 loan within 7 days and if it is not paid they will begin legal proceedings against me for recovery of the loan.  I am at a complete loss and don't know what to do.  Can anybody advise what happens next and what is the most likely outcome?

Some background on the issue is that I have a loan with BOI when I was made redundant I decreased payments, shortly after I found a new job but had to take a massive pay cut, I then had to decrease payments again.  All of this was agreed with BOI and I assumed that as long as I continued to make my payments (obviously until such a time as I could increase them) that our agreement would stay in place.

I don't understand why they're suddenly demanding the full payment of the loan.

Also, would anyone have any information or advice on the type of letter I should write back to Croskerrys?


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## pixiebean22 (11 Aug 2010)

Not sure if i'm allowed post this link.  I'm not affiliated with this firm in any way, I just think the third page of this document provides in clear english the process that solicitors undertake when they're appointed by someone to collect a debt.  
[broken link removed]

Given that proceedings have just begun against me (a demand letter has been received) this document has helped me understand the process better and has helped calm me down a bit.

Also, I found this text on a debt collection firm's website (I'm not going to name them obviously).

When letters are ignored and cheques bounce, it's time for a face to face visit from a debt collector.  Our agents are very persuasive and your debtors will soon discover that a debt collector is not as easy to ignore as a letter or phone call. 

"it's time for a face to face visit from a debt collector" - that sounds really threatening, no?  It makes it sound like they're going to send in the heavies to crack your head open!


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## Wishes (11 Aug 2010)

That is absolutely shocking.  I'm actually speechless for once.


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## eggerb (11 Aug 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> ....
> 
> Also, I found this text on a debt collection firm's website (I'm not going to name them obviously).
> 
> When letters are ignored and cheques bounce, it's time for a face to face visit from a debt collector. Our agents are very persuasive and your debtors will soon discover that a debt collector is not as easy to ignore as a letter or phone call.


 
Definitely sounds pretty threatening. Google that phrase and you'll see that a lot of debt collectors are using it. Plagarism is also one of their strengths it seems ... in addition to the ability to _persuade_.


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## Joe Q Public (11 Aug 2010)

People don't realise that debt collectors have no statutory powers beyond those of a private citizen. They can be legally ignored.


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## pixiebean22 (12 Aug 2010)

It's very threatening language.  I'd wonder about the type of people who use their services.

Joe Q Public, can you explain a bit better what you mean?  I get what your saying but for the majority of people when a letter from a debt collector comes through your door, in fear you start imagining all sorts of scenarios without any real basis for what you're thinking.  I have seen a lot of posts on here about debt collectors having no rights but does this include a law firm acting on behalf of a bank demanding money and if so, why do they have no rights and how do they still manage to get money out of people?


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## Wishes (12 Aug 2010)

Good question.

I've had experience with a debt collector in the past and stupidly made an arrangement with them that I would pay back money I couldn't possibly afford.  I think it was the shock of them turning up at my door that made me react so foolishly so I think embarrassment is a factor of how they manage to get money out of people.


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## pixiebean22 (12 Aug 2010)

Definitely.  They have experience so they know exactly how people are going to react and how to play on those emotions, embarrassment, fear, anger etc etc.

Just wondering if anyone could provide actual concrete proof that debt collectors have no rights and does this also include solicitors acting on behalf of an institution?


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## Neg Covenant (12 Aug 2010)

Debt collection is a volume based assembly line process in some solicitors firms. They don't make money by getting into debates with the other side. They just issue the papers and keep them moving until they get judgment. It is up to their client (the bank) what they do after that.

It sounds like you owe the money even if you think the bank agreed to one thing and is now doing the other. The thing to do is probably to contact your bank and discuss is with them. If they acknowledge the arrangement or re-jig it then they may instruct the solicitor to stop the action.

Your assumption that the bank would accept reduced payments indefinitely may not have been justifiable. You owe the money so you need to keep your bank satisfied. Make sure you have gon through all the correspondence from the bank before proceedings were issued.   This is so you can explain to the bank that you did not ignore any letters or fail to return any calls. That might help in your meeting with the bank.


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## pixiebean22 (12 Aug 2010)

I don't _think_ the bank agreed to something, they _did_ agree to it, I have plenty of correspondence detailing their agreement to my proposal.  I'm not disputing whether I owe the money or not, I know I owe the money and I accepted that while they accepted the reduced repayments, at some point in the future they would eventually have to increase the repayments to the original amount, I was advised in all correspondence with them (as they put this in all their letters) that this would only take place after making me aware of their decision and I doubt that legal action is how they make me aware that they want to increase the repayments back to the original amount.  I didn't assume that the bank would accept reduced repayments indefinitely, I assumed that they would stick to the agreement we made because I couldn't afford the repayments and rather than getting no money off me and legal proceedings starting long ago, they would instead be getting half of the payment off me each month.


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## Joe Q Public (12 Aug 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> It's very threatening language.  I'd wonder about the type of people who use their services.
> 
> Joe Q Public, can you explain a bit better what you mean?  I get what your saying but for the majority of people when a letter from a debt collector comes through your door, in fear you start imagining all sorts of scenarios without any real basis for what you're thinking.  I have seen a lot of posts on here about debt collectors having no rights but does this include a law firm acting on behalf of a bank demanding money and if so, why do they have no rights and how do they still manage to get money out of people?



A law firm has no more rights to demand money than you or I. They have to act within the law. They have to send a letter demanding the money before they can sue you. After that they can sue and obtain a judgement.

The only person that has legal powers to demand you pay up is the sheriff. He is a court officer who will have a warrant to collect money and goods up to the value of the debt. Anyone else does not have this power. I can turn up on your doorstep and demand you pay me money you owe to someone else, but you can tell me to go away and I would have no choice but to do so. 

Debt collectors pray on fear and embarrassment as stated earlier. They make themselves out to have more legal powers than they really have. You can ignore anyone that knocks at your door. As said earlier only the sheriff has the authority to demand you pay.


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## pixiebean22 (12 Aug 2010)

Thanks for explaining that Joe, when you read it it makes sense obviously but there are still people who would be inclined to just fork over the money.


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## boxplayer (13 Aug 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> Thanks for explaining that Joe, when you read it it makes sense obviously but there are *still people who would be inclined to just fork over the money*.



Maybe I'm missing something here but they (and you) *do *owe the money in the first place! You phrase it as if there would be something wrong in paying up...


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## PaddyW (13 Aug 2010)

You're not missing anything, but they can't just show up on the doorstep and demand the money there and then by using intimidation. That's against the law.


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## Joe Q Public (13 Aug 2010)

Correct. Just because someone may owe the money does not give anyone the right to break the law.


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## pixiebean22 (13 Aug 2010)

boxplayer said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here but they (and you) *do *owe the money in the first place! You phrase it as if there would be something wrong in paying up...


 
Yes i know I *do* owe the money as I'm sure every other person who is in a similar situation is well aware.  My post was in relation to people who aren't legally entitled to demand money demanding money and people paying up because they don't understand they're not legally obliged to.


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## Fester1 (16 Aug 2010)

boxplayer said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here but they (and you) *do *owe the money in the first place! You phrase it as if there would be something wrong in paying up...



Some people need to read the whole thread and not take one comment out of context!
Pixie, I can't provide any help but wish you encouragement through this difficult time.

I myself am battling though my own debt mountain but after 2 years I'm starting to come down from the summit!


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## ExBanker (19 Aug 2010)

Hi Pixie, 

Forget talk of debt collection agencies for now. The next logical step is to revert to BoI in writing (email or letter), outlining that you have kept to the terms of your agreement (as revised in agreement with them). That you do not understand how they could seek repayment in full given your already explained circumstances. 

While you are making payments to them they are highly unlikely to get a judgement against you. A judgement is required *BEFORE *any debt collection firm can be engaged. The steps here are 1) Demand Letter (which you received), 2) Court action to secure judgement 3) Judgement Issued 4) POSSIBLY the bank may engage debt collections agency to collect on foot of the judgement. 
Some of the stuff printed above skips 3 steps. I note this from the Document you linked to 

If the Debtor does not defend the proceedings or enter into
an acceptable repayment schedule within the time allowed, we will
forward an Affidavit of Debt to you for swearing which will ground​our application for Judgment.
 
You appear to meet this criteria if you have disclosed all the relevant facts. 

Regards, 

ExB


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## pixiebean22 (19 Aug 2010)

Thanks for that.

I have still not heard back from the solicitors or BOI, I wrote to them both so I'll just have to wait and see.  In the meantime I plan on keeping to my side of the agreement as normal, unlike BOI.


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## Joe Q Public (19 Aug 2010)

> 4) POSSIBLY the bank may engage debt collections agency to collect on foot of the judgement.


You mean the sheriff and not the usual goons that banks use pre judgement?


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## 98MERC (3 Sep 2010)

Its shocking whats happening out there to ordinary people, living in fear of a knock on the door of your own house. These institutions were handing out pre-approved loans only 3 years ago and increasing credit card limits without notifying customers. 

I'm not saying we dont all need to take responsibility for our spending habits but the banks have to also. You reap what you sow!

People’s circumstances change overnight through no fault of their own. I personally used to take home 6K a month net and now I take home zero. Business gone! Banks that used to call me on a weekly basis offering me 100K for this or 200K for that! Now? They wont even take my calls, "sorry, your account has been passed to collections, you need to deal with them now".

I have had very threatening people knocking on my door representing some very big name banks. Intimidation? Its a state of mind, what can they do? If they threaten you, you can have them arrested.

If you end up in court? A judge is a human being; if you face up to your problems he will take your side! If you have made an effort to pay something? He will take your side. Do not fear the courts. Justice means fairness.

And as for the few people on here “judging” pixie? I hope you guys never fall off of your perch, it can happen before you know it! And it’s hard to keep going, it’s hard to smile some days but its life and life only! You’ll come through it and you won’t ever allow yourself go back there so you will be stronger for it.

I think someone should set up a website naming and shaming the practices of these institutions when things go bad, so that in the good times when we all have money again? We will only do business with the ones that showed us compassion in our darkest hour. You know what? That’s what I’m going to do; I have all the time in the world. Best of look Pixie, don’t let them break you, you’re not alone.


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## denise2007 (3 Sep 2010)

That's a really positive post   Good luck with everything.  You're right everyone will come through this period and hopefully lessons will be learned.


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## Ditsy (10 Sep 2010)

Has anyone asked these "Debt Collectors" for valid ID when they call.  You'll find that they don't.  If they then return with ID you are quite entitled to take their details and advise them that when they verify that their details are in order you will contact them.


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## Time (12 Sep 2010)

I have never heard of debt collectors calling to houses looking for money. Normally they prefer to send letters instead with scary red writing and letterheads.


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## mercman (12 Sep 2010)

Time said:


> I have never heard of debt collectors calling to houses looking for money.



Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Get real, how else are these people going to make efforts to collect ?


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## Time (12 Sep 2010)

They send letters, well all the reputable ones do. Only the bad ones employ heavies.

What can a heavy do when he calls? Absolutely nothing is the answer.


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## Peter54 (13 Sep 2010)

98Merc, very well said.

Ditsy, that's an interesting question.  When I asked the collector who arrived at my door for ID he looked at me like I'd lost the plot.  When I rang the bank to confirm there was a collector at my door they couldn't confirm if they had sent him out.  How ludicrous is that?  

Time, Mercman is correct.  They are sending collectors to people's homes.  I can vouch for that.


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## pixiebean22 (13 Sep 2010)

Yeah I've heard of that.  Have to say if anybody showed up at my door like that I would be pretending that my very timid great dane is actually a monster.


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## Time (13 Sep 2010)

Just tell them to leave.


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## redbhoy (14 Sep 2010)

Debt collection agents have no legal standing in Ireland so you can just ignore them.


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## Time (14 Sep 2010)

Indeed. If they give you any hassle call the Gardaí.


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## derailed (15 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> I posted a few days ago saying that I had received a call from Croskerrys solicitors in relation to my Bank of Ireland account. I sent an e-mail to their general e-mail address requesting that they send me full details either by post or by e-mail and I have since received a letter from them.
> 
> In their letter they're demanding (on behalf of Bank of Ireland) full payment of an €18,000 loan within 7 days and if it is not paid they will begin legal proceedings against me for recovery of the loan. I am at a complete loss and don't know what to do. Can anybody advise what happens next and what is the most likely outcome?
> 
> ...


 
I had a civil bill delivered to my door by Crosskerrys, I did not sign for it but I accepted it and contacted them immediatly.
It was in relation to a supplier in the UK, We had closed our business and had contacted said supplier to return stock.
We recieved no response from supplier, Nor any notification from Crosskerrys prior to delivery of Civil Bill.
I went on to the Crosskerry.com website where they state their procedure of debt collection very clearly, They had not maintained that criteria in regard to this situation.
I sent Croskerrys 7 emails before I had to demand an acknowledgement of reciept of same.
All goods were returned to supplier but Crosskerrys are now asserting Court proceedings with the threat of  Judgement Mortgage.
I am unemployed, Have lost my business and tettering on the precipice of a breakdown, Try as I do to remain rational and logical, These Law firms dealing primarily with debt collection really need to be seen to abide by their own professed criteria.


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## Time (15 Sep 2010)

You are only a number to the likes of Crosskerrys. They only take orders from their masters.


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