# If a ball is kicked into neighbours garden is neighbour legally obliged to return it?



## Jane Doe

if a ball is  kicked in to neighbours garden is the neighbour legally obliged to give it back? They cannot  damage it but could they just leave it there.


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## Jane Doe

It is the legal situation i want to know about


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## Jane Doe

> Where the ball passes into a neighbouring garden, it will constitute trespass to go and collect it without permission


correct


> Yet, the ball does not belong to the neighbour


correct


> and so it should be returned on request


if no request is made can it just be left there?


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## Jane Doe

cashier said:


> Well these things go by precedence, if the 1948 case is anything to go by, *then there is no onus on the land owner to return it.*


thanks seems that way


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## Padraigb

I think golf balls might be viewed differently from footballs. Note also that the legal case mentioned seemed to turn on the idea that the golf balls could be considered "lost or abandoned".


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## Eithneangela

Don't know if this may be perceived as flippant, but unless you're living alongside a golf course where you are regularly indundated with golf balls appearing in your garden, I'd just throw whatever ball arrives in my garden back over the wall where I've at times heard children playing with same. Again, if damage is done to you or your property, that's a horse of a different colour - and I would pursue that legally.


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## roker

We get footballs over about 3 times a day, which sometimes destroys our plants. I know they must come over to get them when we are not in the house. I don't see what we can do about it, because they don't listen about kicking the balls in the street by the cars


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## Jane Doe

roker said:


> We get footballs over about 3 times a day, which sometimes destroys our plants. I know they must come over to get them when we are not in the house. I don't see what we can do about it, because they don't listen about kicking the balls in the street by the cars


I think it may be illegal to kick ball in street and may constitute anti social behaviour by putting people in fear damage. Cannot find the wording now

edit found something


> The Housing Miscellaneous Provisions Act 1997 defines  anti-social
> behaviour as: any behaviour which causes or is likely to  cause any
> significant or persistent danger, injury, DAMAGE, loss or  fear to any
> person , living, working or otherwise lawfully in the  vicinity of a
> house provided by a local authority.


 Does it only apply to local authorty houses?


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## serotoninsid

Jane Doe said:


> if a ball is  kicked in to neighbours garden is the neighbour legally obliged to give it back? They cannot  damage it but could they just leave it there.


I politely advised footy to be played elsewhere (rather than against the fence of my back garden.  That was ignored - and ultimately, that ball met with stanley blade before being returned in 2 halves.


Problem solved permanently.


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## Jane Doe

serotoninsid said:


> I politely advised footy to be played elsewhere (rather than against the fence of my back garden.  That was ignored - and ultimately, that ball met with stanley blade before being returned in 2 halves.
> 
> 
> Problem solved permanently.


you probably broke the law though and could be in trouble if the complained to the garda. did they see you and did parent say anything


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## ANORAKPHOBIA

"Problem solved permanently"

I would not be so sure that the problem is solved permanently. Kids nowadays don't defer to adults as they used to.You could be storing up touble for yourself in the future. To be honest returning the ball in two halves smacks of petty gloating and is less than what one would expect from an adult.


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## serotoninsid

ANORAKPHOBIA said:


> "Problem solved permanently"
> 
> I would not be so sure that the problem is solved permanently. Kids nowadays don't defer to adults as they used to.You could be storing up touble for yourself in the future. To be honest returning the ball in two halves smacks of petty gloating and is less than what one would expect from an adult.


You do have a point - and it might come back to bite me in the future.  However, I really detest people (and I don't care if they are kids - if they were given the required direction from their parents (as this is done in view of said parents), then this situation shouldn't arise) dropping in my back garden uninvited - staring in my back window at me. As regards the petty gloating, that wasn't really where I was heading.  It was (and is) a case of wanting total privacy and quiet enjoyment of my own home.  As already pointed out, my 'solution' wasn't perfect - but it's the only real option I could run with.  Asking them to pick a different spot didn't seem to sway them.  A warning that the ball wouldn't be coming back the next time was met with the tossing of a crisp bag into my garden.

Of course, it doesn't solve the problem - but the issue doesn't lie with the kids!


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## WizardDr

Theft and Fraud Offences Act 2001:

4.—(1) Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.
(2) For the purposes of this section a person does not appropriate property without the consent of its owner if—
(a) the person believes that he or she has the owner's consent, or would have the owner's consent if the owner knew of the appropriation of the property and the circumstances in which it was appropriated, or
(b) (except where the property came to the person as trustee or personal representative) he or she appropriates the property in the belief that the owner cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps,
but consent obtained by deception or intimidation is not consent for those purposes.


So where does this leave the matter of the ball if:
- some child accidentally kicked it in;
- you know the owner of the ball;

Lets say you are in the Jury - and it so happens the Ball is worth €1,000 for whatever reason.
- you are told the child accidentally kicked the ball in
- was never a nuisance;
- the occupier has been asked to give the ball back and says or does nothing.

What would you do?


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## Bronte

I don't have any problem with balls coming over. And when I do see them I throw them back. And I don't mind kids coming in to retrieve balls either.  And I most certainly will never go down the legal route or call the gardai about balls coming into my garden.


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## dewdrop

Is splitting the ball a good example to young folk from presumably an adult?  I think you might be inviting retaliation.


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## serotoninsid

dewdrop said:


> Is splitting the ball a good example to young folk from presumably an adult?  I think you might be inviting retaliation.


The option taken following...

A. Asking them to use an adjacent area - where they wouldn't bother anyone.
B. With A. having been ignored - and them continuing to enter my property without consent (knowing that they don't have my consent), I asked them again to use the adjacent area.
C. With A & B having been ignored, on the next occasion, I told them the ball simply wouldn't be coming back - that was met with a crisp bag being fired into my garden.


dewdrop said:


> I think you might be inviting retaliation.


Already acknowledged.  
However, no clearcut way of dealing with this has emerged in this thread.  Bronte doesn't mind kids coming onto his property or knocking on the door every few minutes for same.  Maybe a higher class of citizen in his area.  In mine, 95% are so.  The 5% include 2 with a history of low level criminal activity (to supplement their SW) -direct thievery from ordinary decent people  in the case of one - and the other is happy to fence stuff on).  4 of kids concerned at the time belonged to those 2 families.  Luckily the more potent of the two has been evicted since (and btw that was a sw/ras scheme rental - so as you can imagine, there had to be serious problems for that to culminate in eviction).  
However, boundaries have to be established with these people...which reminds me - I had an item stolen from the bottom of the stairs (left door open as I went back into the house to get something I'd forgotten before leaving) by one of these brats a few years ago.


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## Bronte

serotoninsid said:


> Bronte doesn't mind kids coming onto his property or knocking on the door every few minutes for same.
> 
> However, boundaries have to be established with these people
> 
> .


 
Ahh comn now I wouldn't like someone knocking at the door every 5 minutes, the kids were allowed climb over the wall themselves or come around the side, it was an unlocked gatte. The kids in your story must be woefull with a ball as retrieving it every 5 minutes is no joke, unless they were getting their kicks out of your reaction. 

I agree with you about boundaries, and I don't think your response was disproportionate. And if it were my children that ignored your request they would be in serious trouble with me.


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## AgathaC

Bronte said:


> And if it were my children that ignored your request they would be in serious trouble with me.



This is the crux of the matter,in my opinion. There are parents,unfortunately who never check to see what their children are at,on the street, and/or actively encourage them to disrespect the property of others whether it is damage to cars/ trespass in gardens or whatever.


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## serotoninsid

AgathaC said:


> This is the crux of the matter,in my opinion. There are parents,unfortunately who never check to see what their children are at,on the street, and/or actively encourage them to disrespect the property of others whether it is damage to cars/ trespass in gardens or whatever.


spot on.

@Bronte:  wasn't kicking the point you made.  It was just clear that people view the subject in the context of what their expectation would be where they live.  However, mileage will vary dependent upon the..(for want of a better word..) 'pedigree' of the little individuals concerned.   That's why I provided some specifics for my own scenario.


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## Bronte

AgathaC said:


> There are parents actively encourage them to disrespect the property of others whether it is damage to cars/ trespass in gardens or whatever.


 
This kind of thinking I don't get. I've seen it though.  And the problem is how does a citizen tackle this as one is afraid of repercussions.  The closest I came to it was in a lift in Dunnes in Limerick, a women had a child with her, definitely a gurrier as they say, wanted to press the buttom to open the doors constantly.  Despite myself and other women wanting to return to the parking.  None of us said anything, the other women knew we wouldn't. The threat was there by the look of her.   So we just waited and ignored.  I know if my OH or another man had been there it would have been a different story.  But I was with my elderly mother, didn't want them coming after us, scratching our car or whatever.  What do you do then?  I don't know.


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## Sumatra

The psychology of getting on with your neighbours must be an interesting study. A garden creates a personal space that people living in higher density buildings don't enjoy. Persons in rural locations can yearn for human contact. Much better having contact with neighbours even if it is just a ball kicked into the garden than being dead for 6 months and no one noticing.


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## serotoninsid

Sumatra said:


> The psychology of getting on with your neighbours must be an interesting study. A garden creates a personal space that people living in higher density buildings don't enjoy. Persons in rural locations can yearn for human contact. Much better having contact with neighbours even if it is just a ball kicked into the garden than being dead for 6 months and no one noticing.


That brings to mind the old 17th century addage;

"Good fences make good neighbours"


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## roker

The father is as bad as the kids next door, I have seen him climb over for the ball when my wife was out with the car and he thought we were all out. They must have about 5 balls so they do not need to get them back straight away


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## Sumatra

Nice one serotoninsid


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## Thenameis_Jay

There really is a simple and effective solution to this:-

Stick a webcam up against the upstairs window (It doesn't even have to be connected, it is only a deterrent but you can connect it if you think the warning wont work) as long as it is facing the back garden (works for front garden too)

Next, knock next door to your neighbour and give them their ball(s) back.
Tell the neighbour (Not the kids) you are returning their items, but be warned " I now have CCTV. If you, your children, or on their behalf are seen in my garden again, you will be breaking the law and I will prosecute to the full extent.

Add, You will give them back when you are good and ready. (record the conversation just in case there is an issue in future)


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## Jim2007

Thenameis_Jay said:


> There really is a simple and effective solution to this:-
> 
> Stick a webcam up against the upstairs window (It doesn't even have to be connected, it is only a deterrent but you can connect it if you think the warning wont work) as long as it is facing the back garden (works for front garden too)
> 
> Next, knock next door to your neighbour and give them their ball(s) back.
> Tell the neighbour (Not the kids) you are returning their items, but be warned " I now have CCTV. If you, your children, or on their behalf are seen in my garden again, you will be breaking the law and I will prosecute to the full extent.
> 
> Add, You will give them back when you are good and ready. (record the conversation just in case there is an issue in future)



It's six years ago, I'd expect the problem has been resolved and the kids are grown up by now to booth.


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## Palerider

Its a perennial one this, I've had our cars damaged by balls coming in from neighbours, both are decent cars, the marks might buff out with a machine buffing but I doubt it, a heavy t cut and wax has failed to remove them, I return most balls, I am going to become the guy that does not return the balls, I don't want to be but nothing deters even after explaining that the balls are marking the cars.

I don't care about the balls coming over, I do care about them banging off our cars.

Tricky really, the kids should be able to play but also I should expect my property to be safe parked on my side.


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## theo67

Have this issue as well,and season has just kicked off! Kids come over the wall to retrieve the football if we are not around.I have often wondered about liability if a child is injured on the way in/out, or in my back garden.Should we have no trespassing sign up etc.


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## gimp

Tell the parents, nicely, you will have no choice but to charge them with trespass and criminal damage as you need to recover cost of damage to car. Might make parents take some responsibiity


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## Palerider

They do not trespass in my case....just the high balls falling on my cars...


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## Marion

Answering the question.


Who can prove that it’s in your garden?

Marion


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## mathepac

"What about the little children?" demanded the adult who had just kicked a ball over the fence into my garden. 

I asked him to get off the fence he was in the process of climbing over to get the ball back.

"Send whoever kicked it over around to the front door and ask for it back" I said. "With an apology and a nice please and thank you, just like I learned when I was young."

"You'll be waiting" sez yer man.

"You'll be waiting too" sez !, "if the dog ever finishes playing with it."   Cue 53 kg Rottie appearing from the house sniffing said ball. His territory, his property; try persuading him otherwise.


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## Leper

We're talking about a childrens football being kicked into a back garden, not a scud missile attack from an unfriendly state. Grow up! Give them their ball back. It's great to see kids playing outdoors and not be cooped up being molly-coddled playing computer games and watching television.


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## PaddyBloggit

Leper said:


> Grow up! Give them their ball back.



em... a bit harsh Leper.

Footballs can cause a lot of damage. People have a right to enjoy their property in peace. People have a reasonable expectation that neighbours will respect their property.

Some people invest a lot of money in their cars and treat them with kid gloves. They like to keep them spick and span and polish them like mad.

Footballs carry grit and when they hit a car they leave a circular impression caused by the grit. Other people like to enjoy their back gardens and expect it to be out of harm's way.

A wayward ball can break glass, damage shrubs .... again, possibly, the home owner's pride and joy.

Nobody takes responsibility anymore. Nobody is stopping children from playing ball but being respecful of a neighbour's property should be high priority.


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## MrEarl

serotoninsid said:


> I politely advised footy to be played elsewhere (rather than against the fence of my back garden.  That was ignored - and ultimately, that ball met with stanley blade before being returned in 2 halves.
> 
> 
> Problem solved permanently.



One problem possibly solved, but there's an immediate risk of a bigger problem having been created with that sort of behavior.




Bronte said:


> I don't have any problem with balls coming over. And when I do see them I throw them back. And I don't mind kids coming in to retrieve balls either.  And I most certainly will never go down the legal route or call the gardai about balls coming into my garden.



I'm with you 100%, unless there's a complete barrage of balls coming in and doing particular damage .... in which case, having a friendly word with those playing ball, maybe showing them what's happened etc. should resolve the issue. 



Leper said:


> We're talking about a childrens football being kicked into a back garden, not a scud missile attack from an unfriendly state. .....



   
.


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## Purple

Leper said:


> We're talking about a childrens football being kicked into a back garden, not a scud missile attack from an unfriendly state. Grow up! Give them their ball back. It's great to see kids playing outdoors and not be cooped up being molly-coddled playing computer games and watching television.


Yea, and how do you give the footballs back when you are galavanting around Spain for 3 or 4 months of the year?


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## Leper

Purple said:


> Yea, and how do you give the footballs back when you are galavanting around Spain for 3 or 4 months of the year?



1. I'll tell ya one thing Purple, try playing football during siesta (2pm - 5pm) in Spain and the Spaniards will call the Policía Local to sort out the matter.
2. And you're wrong we don't galavant around Spain for 3 or 4 months of the year; we do it for six months of the year.


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## Purple

Leper said:


> 1. I'll tell ya one thing Purple, try playing football during siesta (2pm - 5pm) in Spain and the Spaniards will call the Policía Local to sort out the matter.


And people think you have it handy...


Leper said:


> 2. And you're wrong we don't galavant around Spain for 3 or 4 months of the year; we do it for six months of the year.


 My apologies, I stand corrected.


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## Steven Barrett

So glad someone brought this thread back up. It's been a great laugh. 

Brought back memories of playing football outside my mates house. We were using the bollards of his neighbours driveway as the goal. Hit a shot clean on the volley. It seemed to go through the air in slow motion as it moved towards the main sitting room window. The glass smashing to the ground seemed to go even slower. Frightened the bejesus out of them. Always thought my dad paid for the repair but he told me years later he never did, they had their house insurance pay for it. 

They don't intend in hitting the ball over wall/ against car (they would have missed their intended target then). Depending on the decency of the kids kicking ball, a word with them is usually enough for them to move.


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## Purple

One good way of getting the kids to stop playing football outside your house is to keep the ball and then, later, when noone is around, go out and put it through someone else's window. Pick the house of the nutcase on the road and then tell them who owns the ball. Tell them that you saw it happen and told the kids to own up but they said that the house owner was a coward and was all talk and would do nothing and their dad said he was a wimp. Then get your popcorn and watch the show unfold!


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## Jazz01

Purple said:


> Then get your popcorn and watch the show unfold!



So Purple, were you originally the "nutcase" or the "dad" when this happened


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## Purple

Jazz01 said:


> So Purple, were you originally the "nutcase" or the "dad" when this happened


I was the guy with the popcorn.


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## DirectDevil

serotoninsid said:


> I politely advised footy to be played elsewhere (rather than against the fence of my back garden.  That was ignored - and ultimately, that ball met with stanley blade before being returned in 2 halves.
> 
> 
> Problem solved permanently.



FYI that probably constitutes criminal damage as per section 2 Criminal Damage Act 1991.
Link http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/act/31/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Two further points ;
1. Don't retaliate by putting yourself in the wrong.
    Remind yourself that you are better than that.

2. If intent on this behaviour please remember the 11th commandment - thou shalt not get caught .


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## DirectDevil

PaddyBloggit said:


> em... a bit harsh Leper.
> 
> Footballs can cause a lot of damage. People have a right to enjoy their property in peace. People have a reasonable expectation that neighbours will respect their property.
> 
> Some people invest a lot of money in their cars and treat them with kid gloves. They like to keep them spick and span and polish them like mad.
> 
> Footballs carry grit and when they hit a car they leave a circular impression caused by the grit. Other people like to enjoy their back gardens and expect it to be out of harm's way.
> 
> A wayward ball can break glass, damage shrubs .... again, possibly, the home owner's pride and joy.
> 
> Nobody takes responsibility anymore. Nobody is stopping children from playing ball but being respecful of a neighbour's property should be high priority.



That can be quite a problem.

If errant footballs are a regular feature causing damage the argument I would put my neighbour is that they - the adults - are permitting the creation and perpetuation of a *legal nuisance* and that you may have to seek redress from them via their household liability insurers for the damage caused.

This is a bit of a declaration of war but would be justified if you are being pushed too far by repetitive contemptuous behaviour.


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## Leper

Purple said:


> One good way of getting the kids to stop playing football outside your house is to keep the ball and then, later, when noone is around, go out and put it through someone else's window. Pick the house of the nutcase on the road and then tell them who owns the ball. Tell them that you saw it happen and told the kids to own up but they said that the house owner was a coward and was all talk and would do nothing and their dad said he was a wimp. Then get your popcorn and watch the show unfold!



Now I'm getting worried about you Purple. You should tell the kids that are playing football that you are  an unpaid union rep and if such joy keeps happening, you will call a meeting and put an immediate stop to it. Call all other cranky neighbours together and organise a picket line outside the house of the weakest looking boy. At least one picket board should read "We've had too much balls."  If you have a beard, you're half way there already. When the lady of the house that is being picketed comes out crying inform her that if her kids want to enjoy themselves, they should watch Derry Girls. That'll do the trick!


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## Palerider

My cars have been marked from balls coming over from neighbours,  Not so funny when damage is being done, parents have the responsibility here not the kids.


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## Tebbit

I hate this time of year when the ball playing begins.   I think parents are irresponsible - as long as its not in front of their own door they don't care.   I happen to be near a green area so it can be like living near a soccer field.   I worry about my house or car being damaged.   I'm sure no one would tell me anyway if my car were damaged. Some of the balls used are very hard and could do lots of damage


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## Purple

I used to have nice cars but now I drive older ones, pre marked so to speak. I no longer worry about footballs or dings in car parks or any of that stuff. It's remarkably liberating.


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