# Discovering Spouses Assets



## jane2011 (19 Aug 2011)

Hi

I am involved in a marrriage seperation, and am concerned that my husband is not revealing all his bank accounts / investment funds / shares, either held at present or recently held over last 2-3 years.

He has signed a legal statement outlining his assets (not sure what the legal term is for this) as part of the proceedings, but I am not sure if he has been truthful.

Is there some way my solicitor etc can contact financial institutions to find out if he currently / recently had accounts or investment funds with say all the major financial organisations in Ireland, and can he look at share registers etc? Can he get info via Revenue on declared accounts abroad / dividends received etc???

Can he be penalised if it emerges he has given a false declaration?

Any help would be appreciated

Thank you in advance.


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## mf1 (19 Aug 2011)

"Is there some way my solicitor etc can contact financial institutions to find out if he currently / recently had accounts or investment funds with say all the major financial organisations in Ireland, and can he look at share registers etc? Can he get info via Revenue on declared accounts abroad / dividends received etc???"

No. That's called a fishing expedition. 

1. What makes you think he is not showing everything? 
2. What makes you think he has more than he is showing? 
3. Get yourself a good forensic accountant, look for discovery for a period before which he might have started hiding things, and accept that, by and large, and this is from 30 years experience,  he generally does not have, what my female clients naively describe as, "loads of money".  

mf


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## Kerrigan (20 Aug 2011)

Going through similar.

Mf1, in a case were there are lots of assets and cash - that spouse has transferred into names of adult children because of pending divorce.  

Does this simply mean that these assets are completly off target as they are no longer in the hands of the two quarreling spouses?


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## mf1 (21 Aug 2011)

Check out this article on "Reviewable dispositions"

"http://vmserver14.nuigalway.ie/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10379/1799/Conveyancing%20Conundrum.pdf?sequence=1"

mf

See  for link above.


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## jane2011 (22 Aug 2011)

Thank you very much for your advice. I don't want to go into the details of how I believe this may be happening, but back to my original query; Do I have to go all the way to get forensic accountants (presumably costing €1,000s), or can a solicitor for example do a trawl of say the major financial institutions and say " have you got an account / fund with mr x at address y / date of birth y" etc?

What are the penalties if my former husband is found to be making a false assets delaration?


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## mf1 (22 Aug 2011)

"Do I have to go all the way to get forensic accountants (presumably costing €1,000s),"

Yes. But if you're so sure he has assets he is hiding.....................Copies of his tax returns may well show details of assets/dividends, etc.,etc. 

" or can a solicitor for example do a trawl of say the major financial institutions and say " have you got an account / fund with mr x at address y / date of birth y" etc?"

No. That's called a fishing expedition. 

How would you like it if complete strangers were able to find out details of your finances like this? 

"What are the penalties if my former husband is found to be making a false assets delaration? "

Its perjury. 

My advice? Focus on the separation and on what is available in these very troubled times. 

mf


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## jane2011 (22 Aug 2011)

Thank you again for your help. Is it routine then to look for a copy of a spouses tax returns to revenue, and if so, how can this be done?


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## mf1 (22 Aug 2011)

"Is it routine then to look for a copy of a spouses tax returns to revenue, and if so, how can this be done? "

Yes. 

Ask. 

If it is refused, look for an order for Discovery in the proceedings. 

mf


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## jane2011 (23 Aug 2011)

Thank you for this clarification. What level of info do revenue provide - is it just like a P60 ie income & tax paid, or is it itemised?
How many years would people routinely go back?


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## T McGibney (23 Aug 2011)

I was under the impression that Revenue treat taxpayer data as confidential and will not permit it to be distributed to any third party without the taxpayer's specific authorisation. Am I mistaken?


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## mf1 (23 Aug 2011)

"Am I mistaken? "

Not at all. 

To OP : you ask the spouse - not the Revenue!

You're not allowed to trawl around third parties, prodding and poking and looking for information. You wouldn't like it and nor will your spouse. 

You have to ask your spouse. If spouse won't provide the  information, you ask for Discovery. If that is not done voluntarily, you get a Court Order. 

You also need to educate yourself on the realities of separation. These days, it is all but impossible for the two parties to maintain the same standard of living enjoyed as a couple ,as separated parties. 

Aim Family Services have a good website. 

mf


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## WizardDr (29 Aug 2011)

Worth buying 'Family Law' published by the Law Society. This is a very good book.

Mf1 is correct - you need to educate yourself and I think that book will assist.

Also if you know your spouse had certain assets - as mf1 has pointed out -you need to spell this out for your own Solicitor.


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## hastalavista (1 Sep 2011)

Just to add to the realities of separation:

if either party is minded to it, assets can be put out of reach with a bit of planning, a lot depends on how much advance notice and planning the party is will to engage in.

Just in case one thinks its only cash and near cash that can be put of of reach, I know of a case where, prior to a separation, ownership of a substantial property in Dublin  [that had a thriving  flagship business] was sold to a Bermudan company and the party continued to work in the thriving business.
The forensic accountants came and crawled all over it but to no avail.

What they never saw was the legal agreement between the party and the company to buy it back

This process is different from the developers putting assets in wife's name to avoid debt, there were no debts being pursued when he transferred the assets.

if the separation leads to divorce in Ireland the claw-back clause may offer some comfort.

I suppose my point is that lawyers and accountants and other advisors will quite happily spend your money in pursuit of what may not be there


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## mf1 (1 Sep 2011)

"I suppose my point is that lawyers and accountants and other advisors will quite happily spend your money in pursuit of what may not be there "

Can I suggest that you might like to re-phrase that?

Perhaps along the lines of 

(a) Clients can be really grubby  little toe-rags who will happily, legally, do their utmost to avoid their legal obligations? 

or perhaps

(b) Clients can be so driven in the pursuit  of what is not there that they will ignore all their advisors' advices and insist on a fruitless trawl?


mf


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