# VAT Decrease



## Sunny (1 Jul 2011)

Ok, I had my first experience at lunchtime when I went to get my hair chopped and the price was the same as last time. When I asked about abou the VAT decrease I got a shrug of the shoulders. Won't be going there again! 

Is there a name and shame website when we can both compliment the businesses who pass on the cut but also name those that don't!!


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2011)

Most businesses aren't going to pass this on. You only have to look at the attitude of the AAM poster who is getting married where the hotel are refusing to pass on the reduction to see the prevailing attitude out there.

This reduction will be reversed in the next budget IMO, just like the reduction from 21% to 20% was reversed very shortly afterwards.


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## Mpsox (1 Jul 2011)

Price of newspapers have gone down,


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## JP1234 (1 Jul 2011)

I was stood behind a person in a shop this morning who was querying the prices of his takeaway food, the manager came over and said they would only be reduced when they restock the items as the shop had already paid the higher rate for the produce!

I am getting my hair cut tomorrow so will see what they charge, if they don't reduce the price, like you I will be looking elsewhere.

The problem with things like Hotels is that they offer so many differing rates depending on when/how or who you book through for the same room it would be hard to know for sure if they had passed on the cut unless you had an exact copy of a booking from yesterday to compare it to.

I just checked our local cinema who have reduced their prices.


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## Shawady (1 Jul 2011)

Am I right in calculating that for something (like a haircut) that cost €10, should now only cost approx €9.60 after the decrease is applied?


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2011)

JP1234 said:


> I was stood behind a person in a shop this morning who was querying the prices of his takeaway food, the manager came over and said they would only be reduced when they restock the items as the shop had already paid the higher rate for the produce!



Well that manager is a moron, at best!

The reduction in the VAT rate has no bearing on the net cost to the shop, and that's without getting into the fact that the vast vast majority of food items are zero-rated purchases for the shop anyway.


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2011)

Shawady said:


> Am I right in calculating that for something (like a haircut) that cost €10, should now only cost approx €9.60 after the decrease is applied?



Yes, and that is unlikely to happen IMO. It's just too fiddly.


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## Shawady (1 Jul 2011)

I must check out the local indian restaurant where I get my take-away from. The mains are normally around the €10 mark.

Does the decrease apply to theatre tickets?
I was checking out tickets for an upcoming play and they are priced at 25, 30 and 35. If the decrease is applied the should be approx 24, 29 and 34.
Will the prices change.


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## JP1234 (1 Jul 2011)

Shawady said:


> I must check out the local indian restaurant where I get my take-away from. The mains are normally around the €10 mark.
> 
> Does the decrease apply to theatre tickets?
> I was checking out tickets for an upcoming play and they are priced at 25, 30 and 35. If the decrease is applied the should be approx 24, 29 and 34.
> Will the prices change.



Theatre tickets are supposed to be reduced. Maybe they just haven't updated their systems. I would ring and ask.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/rates/rate-changes-jobs-initiative.html  has all the details of what is included



			
				DB74 said:
			
		

> Well that manager is a moron, at best!



I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't had a change of mind since this morning if enough queried it


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## DublinTexas (1 Jul 2011)

I don't think that most of the shops are going to lower their current price by 3.96% just to give the public the VAT rate reduction.

As for consumers the prices are displayed including VAT, so they are just going to leave everything as it is, pocket the increased net amount and pay less to the taxman.

The cost of printing new menus, price tables and displays is just to great to cope with this.

In the US for example the shops have the prices without tax which are added at check-out, in that case the decreased sales tax would benefit the consumer, but in our little country where the price displayed is the end price to the consumer it's just not going to go into your pocket.

Or has anybody found any shop that acutualy went there and cut their prices?


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## Sunny (1 Jul 2011)

DublinTexas said:


> I don't think that most of the shops are going to lower their current price by 3.96% just to give the public the VAT rate reduction.
> 
> As for consumers the prices are displayed including VAT, so they are just going to leave everything as it is, pocket the increased net amount and pay less to the taxman.
> 
> ...


 
Doesn't seem to stop them changing menus, price tables and displays when VAT goes up. A colleague bought a takeaway coffee in an Irish coffee shop at lunchtime and the price hadn't changed but apparently the place a few doors down (A large multinational coffee shop) had and advertised the fact.


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## STEINER (1 Jul 2011)

*newspapers*

I only buy papers on sundays, sunday independent or business post.  hopefully price will be down from 2.70 to 2.60


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## Shawady (1 Jul 2011)

The only way it will work is people power. If your local hairdresser, restaurant or sunday paper you buy do not pass on the decrease, boycott them.


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## johnwilliams (1 Jul 2011)

just out of curiousity did anyone notice any price increases in the last few weeks just so a fake vat reduction could be advertised by retailer

those of you who have gone to the tall ships in waterford have you seen any reductions?


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## ajapale (1 Jul 2011)

I notice that MacDonald's have dropped their prices. That's fine but they all odd prices now. My Happy Meal and Big-Mac meal cost €10.05 and it killed me to break a €20!


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## gipimann (1 Jul 2011)

There is a "name and shame" thread over on boards - I spotted it today.

My local takeaway hasn't changed their prices...


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## micmclo (1 Jul 2011)

Omniplex chain of cinemas cut their tickets prices,

I saw a good point that if you've paid deposits and booked different things for your wedding, be sure to insist to get your bill recalculated.
Or you can say nothing and just pay the correct amount at the end.
But just mind you don't pay too much


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## MrMan (2 Jul 2011)

Is there any get out clause that a hotel can use with regard avoiding a vat decrease? Getting married myself in a few months so any penny pinching is greatly appreciated!


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## rustbucket (2 Jul 2011)

My flatmate is getting married and has paid a deposit.

When asked about the final bill due to come they said they will not be changing it.

They said their price is their price, ie a price for the room is a price for the room.

Their excuse for not reducing it was 'We dont increase our prices when VAT goes up' (absolute Tosh id say)


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## z107 (2 Jul 2011)

This is a laugh!

Yet more tinkering by FF/FG that will cause more problems than it solves.
Now we have talk of people boycotting businesses in this thread 

Looking forward to the next hair brained scheme.


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## micmclo (2 Jul 2011)

For weddings, the Irish Hotel Federation has told its members to pass on the savings

THis happened before when Charlie McCreevy cut VAT rate, businesses pocketed it so they put the rate back up

Here's an article
http://www.independent.ie/business/...eductions-to-consumers-warns-ihf-2805713.html

If you've a deposit paid for a wedding and the hotel won't budge, just go ahead with the wedding and when it comes time to settle the bill, knock off the extra VAT yourself.
What are they going to do? Take you to court? Hah!


Your barber should have cut their prices too but don't haggle and call him greedy when he has a cut throat razor in his hand


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> This is a laugh!
> 
> Yet more tinkering by FF/FG that will cause more problems than it solves.
> Now we have talk of people boycotting businesses in this thread
> ...



What a very odd post. Why are you blaming FF and FG? Also why are you moaning about a tax cut? Would you prefer to see VAT rise?


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## ajapale (2 Jul 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Yet more tinkering



Im with umop3p!sdn on this issue.

This selected VAT decrease is simply tinkering.


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## Crunchie (2 Jul 2011)

A branch of a well known coffee and muffin chain in Dun Laoghaire issued me with a receipt this morning showing my VAT at 13.5%. Needless to say no manager around to deal with my query.


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## z107 (2 Jul 2011)

> What a very odd post. Why are you blaming FF and FG? Also why are you moaning about a tax cut? Would you prefer to see VAT rise?


I believe FF is the same as FG. The policies are the same anyway. Why not call it as it is? - a one party state.

You call it a 'tax cut'. Well the Government will just increase some other tax to cover it. (probably water or property tax) We are not going to pay less tax over the next few years. We probably should but that's discussion for another thread.

Now we have all these businesses having to alter VAT rates which is a huge PITA and appears to be causing disgruntled customers.
I'd be very surprised if my next hair cut is €9.60 instead of €10.


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## STEINER (3 Jul 2011)

well I am happy the Sunday Independent and Sunday Business Post dropped from 2.70 each to 2.60 each. I wont notice any hotel prices decreases until Sept when I stay in an hotel again.


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## Locke (4 Jul 2011)

Went to Bar Pintxo (Tapas Bar in Temple Bar) on Saturday, nice spot. 

Anyway, was pleasently surprised to see they had passed on the reduction.

Was finding it odd that the prices were a little random until it copped with me why. one thing was €6.27 on the printed menu handed to us, went online and saw it was €6.50, obviously the online menu hasn't been updated just yet.


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## ashambles (4 Jul 2011)

You're always unlikely to immediately see results from small movements in VAT on low to medium cost items with the European system of displaying consumer prices with VAT built in.  

Everyone expects to see a price ending in .99, .00, .50, etc. and that's the deciding factor in picking the final few digits on the pricing. The VAT portion is then worked backwards from this.

If restaurants do reduce prices to odd amounts, it'll be temporary and they'll eventually move back to normal price points or if you're lucky to the next lower price point.

When we go to the US we're always surprised they look for around 8% more at the till but the explicit taxation in the US makes it difficult for states to levy extremely high sales taxes in the 20%+ range. It also means a small movement in the rate either way has an instant effect on consumers.

You'll have politians feigning surprise at VAT decreases not being passed on, but when it comes to increasing VAT they'll be hoping that the retailers absorb it.


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## michaelm (4 Jul 2011)

MrMan said:


> Is there any get out clause that a hotel can use with regard avoiding a vat decrease? Getting married myself in a few months so any penny pinching is greatly appreciated!


You could argue that your agreed composite price is X + VAT and that if they don't adjust the bill accordingly then you will.  If VAT had gone up would they have applied that or not? and would you have argued for the agreed price? If they were any use than they would of course reduce the bill in line with the VAT reduction.


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## MrMan (4 Jul 2011)

I'll give it a shot closer to the time and argue my case even though it's not cast iron, if I get my way I'll post the result.


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## Shawady (4 Jul 2011)

MrMan, I would be surprised if the hotel would not adjust the price for you. I know some people that have negotiated good deals with hotels for wedding packages recently.


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## cork (6 Jul 2011)

Many business owners will not pass this on.

Govt. are wasting 350m on this to create jobs.

350m out of the 500m funding of the jobs budget goes on this.

Vat Reductions have not worled in the UK.

It is a digrace that private pensions are being raided to fund this gimmick.


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## Mpsox (6 Jul 2011)

The VAT decrease is only temporary. I think there is a fair chance that when it is raised back up to 13.5%, a lot of businesses who have not cut their proces may decide to raise them on the grounds of "VAT has gone up, nothing we can do" and that people won't remember that they never decreased them in the first place

Or maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age?


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## Crunchie (10 Jul 2011)

A Pizza restaurant in Liffey Valley Shopping Centre still showing VAT at 13.5% on its receipts today (10 July). You would think if they didn't want to reduce the prices they would at least have the sense to take the VAT off the receipt!


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## Purple (10 Jul 2011)

Crunchie said:


> A Pizza restaurant in Liffey Valley Shopping Centre still showing VAT at 13.5% on its receipts today (10 July). You would think if they didn't want to reduce the prices they would at least have the sense to take the VAT off the receipt!


Do you think every shop and fast-food outlet has the IT skills in-house to change the VAT rate on their tills? 
It's a stupid change that will do little or nothing to change things and people who make blanket statements about being ripped off by businesses that haven't reduced their rates are idiots. What's his name from Insomnia Coffee made the point on the radio the other morning that while Starbucks had passed on the VAT reduction Starbucks charged twice as much for the same product as they did.


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## Sunny (10 Jul 2011)

Well then businesses won't mind corporation tax going up a tiny percentage since a 4% cut in the VAT rate is considered trivial and stupid. Or we can increase the VAT rate by 4% since people seem to think it matters so little.


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## Crunchie (10 Jul 2011)

Purple said:


> Do you think every shop and fast-food outlet has the IT skills in-house to change the VAT rate on their tills?



Probably not Purple but I do know that the large coffee and muffin chain I referred to in an earlier post confirmed to me that they rectified the rate on the day I contacted them so they clearly had the skills.

I also have no doubt that the restaurant I was in today, as a major multinational, is very likely to have the skills - but if I am wrong I'll be happy to clarify when I get their response.

I do think however that there is a huge inertia when it comes to paying for goods and services. Most, if not all, of us have taken a hit in our incomes in some way or other and have had to tighten our belts and the €5+ in excess "VAT" that I paid in the examples I quoted does matter to me. So if finding it unacceptable that a large organisation continues to indicate its VAT rate at 13.5% makes me one of the "idiots" you refer to in your post Purple I'll happily wear the badge


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## RonanC (10 Jul 2011)

Purple said:


> Do you think every shop and fast-food outlet has the IT skills in-house to change the VAT rate on their tills?



Purple, if the VAT rate increased, you'd see an instant change in the rate shown on receipts.


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## IsleOfMan (11 Jul 2011)

My 3 ice cream cones were the same price in Mount Merrion yesterday. What about all the businesses that don't offer receipts to their customers. No drop in prices at the DunLaoghaire Farmers Market either.


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## PaddyW (11 Jul 2011)

I know of one Super Valu that have decreased the VAT against coffess and such, but will be upping the cost price of it so there will be no change in the price at all and of course they benefit. I know this because someone who works there has told me.


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## MrMan (11 Jul 2011)

Crunchie said:


> Probably not Purple but I do know that the large coffee and muffin chain I referred to in an earlier post confirmed to me that they rectified the rate on the day I contacted them so they clearly had the skills.
> 
> I also have no doubt that the restaurant I was in today, as a major multinational, is very likely to have the skills - but if I am wrong I'll be happy to clarify when I get their response.
> 
> I do think however that there is a huge inertia when it comes to paying for goods and services. Most, if not all, of us have taken a hit in our incomes in some way or other and have had to tighten our belts and the €5+ in excess "VAT" that I paid in the examples I quoted does matter to me. So if finding it unacceptable that a large organisation continues to indicate its VAT rate at 13.5% makes me one of the "idiots" you refer to in your post Purple I'll happily wear the badge



If things are that tight it might be worth skipping the coffee and muffin.


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