# New Garda in area harrassing locals



## mercman (26 May 2010)

A new Garda was posted to a very rural area replacing the old Garda that was very fair and dealt with matters swiftly and had the respect of the locals.

The new Garda has chosen to make the locals life hell: waiting outside the pubs, writing down registration numbers of people in pub so they can be approached the following morning. If tax or Insurance is expired rather than offer a casual word issues summons.  Walking into pubs to clear them and forcing customers out before drinks finished. Warning people/elderly who park incorrectly outside the local shop. Countless road blocks in different locations for speeding. Lays down the law sternly to the local publicans.

This is an area where there has never been trouble.  

But in the same manner he goes into the Pub, has four pints and drives home himself, frequently.

The same Garda was transferred from his last area because of cheesing the locals off. 

What are people to do to rid themselves of this hasstle ?? Any ideas ?


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## MANTO (26 May 2010)

Set up a petition and hand it to his superior? Get people to write letters to his superior complaining?

Take pictures of him boozing and getting into the car and driving... mayb a bit far


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## jhegarty (26 May 2010)

Ring 999 everytime he drinks and drives.


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## huskerdu (26 May 2010)

I don't think there is a lot you can do about him implementing the law in a way that is annoying  people, even if this is not the correct way to be policing the area,  but if he is driving over the limit, you should report him. It is illegal, immoral, and outrageous that he is pulling people up on minor infringments of the parking laws where this is not affecting other people, but at the same time breaking a law designed to save lives.


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

Report his drink-driving to the local supernitendent.


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> Report his drink-driving to the local supernitendent.


in writing, by registered post ensuring there are multiple individual complainants, writing about specific incidents. Give the super 30 days in which to take action about the drink-driving. If the super fails to act, refer the complaint and the lack of action to the Chief Superintendent or directly to [broken link removed].


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## Yeager (26 May 2010)

Other than having pints himself and driving (which we all know is wrong and he shouldn't get away with it) everything else is keeping with enforcing the law which is his job and perhaps if we had more like him this cushy attitude of letting car tax run out, speeding because 'you know the local roads' and drinking after hours because you are 'enjoying your night out' might actually be stopped.

I'm by no means a model citizen (I'll admit to going above the speed limit regularily and am always the last person to leave the pub) but I say stop giving him a hard time for doing his job at the end of day.


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## mercman (26 May 2010)

Yeager said:


> but I say stop giving him a hard time for doing his job at the end of day.



In an area where there never has been any kind of serious trouble. What happened to the flexibility factor ?


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## Yeager (26 May 2010)

Flexibility is important I agree but some little villages have had it easy for long enough with alot of things tolerated as its always been the way and sure what harm type attitudes. 

It may have worked in the past and you will argue it still does but the older Gards were from a different era when things were different and this approach is and was abused by some folks for long enough. 

All I think of is Killinaskully


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## ajapale (26 May 2010)

mercman said:


> What are people to do to rid themselves of this  hasstle ?  Any ideas ?



Obey the law?


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

Yeager said:


> ... All I think of is Killinaskully


Jaykers, the cat is owa the bag now, haw? There'll be wigs on the green, rhight?


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## gianni (26 May 2010)

ajapale said:


> obey the law?



+1

and also report any wrong doings of the Garda to the appropriate authority as outlined in earlier posts.


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## allthedoyles (26 May 2010)

We think you need to ignore this behaviour of the new Garda - This is not normal behaviour of any Garda in any shape , make or form .

You will find that if you put this to the back of your mind , it will eventually peter out .
He is entitled to enforce the law , but he will learn to use discretion , give him time .

If he continues to break the law himself , you will find that he will be soon brought to account .( probably behind closed doors though )


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## mercman (26 May 2010)

This has been going on for over a year now. And it gets worse by the day. All the young people make their way out of the area at weekends, as simply their view is that being around is not worth the hasstle. They base this opinion on when in the bigger towns and cities the Gardai watch the drunkards knock the hell out of one another and innocent bystanders and nothing is done but in a very small town this Garda is looking for trouble to start. I'm sorry to say that he does not know the meaning of the word discretion and has definitely learned nothing from his past failings.


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

allthedoyles said:


> ... This is not normal behaviour of any  Garda in any shape , make or form  ...


All the more reason why  his law-breaking activities need be highlighted to his superiors.


allthedoyles said:


> We think you need to ignore this behaviour  of the new Garda  ...


It cannot be ignored. He is in a position  of authority in the community and cannot be seen to be above the law.





allthedoyles said:


> ... He is entitled to enforce the law , but he will learn to use discretion , give him time ...


Because he is a law-breaker, he has lost the confidence of the community, is betraying the trust placed in him by his superiors and is bringing the Gardai into disrepute, therefore he needs to go and has lost all entitlements as an enforcement officer.


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## mercman (26 May 2010)

Thank you mathepac for been so eloquent in your surmising. He, his wife and kids live in the area. It must be very lonely sometimes living with a bully like this.


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## Padraigb (26 May 2010)

Although I don't think religious principles should enter into the conduct of official business in Ireland, my first thought is that it should be for him who is without sin to cast the first stone. In other words, if a person has taken advantage of a more informal style of policing to bend the law a bit, he is then in a bad position to complain about strict enforcement.

It might be a good idea for somebody who has a clear conscience to have an informal discussion with the Superintendent and make the point that good policing is not solely about enforcement.

Personally, I'd be cautious about reporting him for drinking and driving in the course of the same conversation. That might be dealt with by another person at another time. It is a big deal to report a Garda for law-breaking. It's a big deal for him, because it might cost him his job; it's a big deal for the person who does the reporting, because some Gardaí will keep a special eye out for the complainant, and if ever he steps out of line he will be nailed.


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## Moral Ethos (26 May 2010)

Reporting him is a high risk game for the informant. Expect your car details to be flagged on PULSE for special attention.


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

Padraigb said:


> ...  It is a big deal to report a Garda for law-breaking. It's a big deal for him, because it might cost him his job; it's a big deal for the person who does the reporting, because some Gardaí will keep a special eye out for the complainant, and if ever he steps out of line he will be nailed.


It's a big deal for a Garda to be a persistent, dangerous law-breaker, it's a bigger deal for me that he not be reported simply because he's a Garda or because his erstwhile colleagues might want pay-back.  I'd prefer that he lose his job rather than his life or that he take someone else's.


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## niceoneted (27 May 2010)

I would report his drink driving but I would not complain about him doing his job even if it does seem OTT.


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## redbhoy (27 May 2010)

Yeager said:


> everything else is keeping with enforcing the law which is his job and perhaps if we had more like him this cushy attitude of letting car tax run out, speeding because 'you know the local roads' and drinking after hours because you are 'enjoying your night out' might actually be stopped.
> 
> I'm by no means a model citizen (I'll admit to going above the speed limit regularily and am always the last person to leave the pub) but I say stop giving him a hard time for doing his job at the end of day.


 
His job is to keep the peace. Thats the LAW. No breach of peace, no law is broke.
Everything else is usually to do with a money making racket named the Criminal Courts System of Ireland. Did he take an oath to uphold the duties of a Peace Officer or was there another Oath brought in which holds him to become a Policy Enforcement Officer or Revenue Collection Officer?


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## csirl (27 May 2010)

Maybe this Guard is normal and the previous one was lazy?


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## Moral Ethos (27 May 2010)

Drink driving? That is not normal.


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## Staples (27 May 2010)

mercman said:


> The new Garda has chosen to make the locals life hell: waiting outside the pubs, writing down registration numbers of people in pub so they can be approached the following morning. If tax or Insurance is expired rather than offer a casual word issues summons.


 
There may come a day that you'll be glad that the person who's in collision with your car is both insured and sober. If it does, I hope you'll remember the efforts of the Garda to instil such a culture.

In the meantime, you should report him for driving while over the limit.



mercman said:


> in the bigger towns and cities the Gardai watch the drunkards knock the hell out of one another and innocent bystanders and nothing is done


 
Dodge City perhaps but nowhere I've ever been.


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## truthseeker (27 May 2010)

I dont see the issue with any of the law enforcement 'problems' mentioned. He may be enforcing the law more stringently than the last guy, but maybe the last guy was a bit lax.

Drink driving himself? Id be interested to know if this really is the case or if he has 2 shandys and goes home and the rumour grows legs and runs.

Similar to the transfer because he cheesed off the locals in the last place story - how would anyone know that? Sounds like another rumour.

Ive not had experience of drunkards knocking the hell out of each other and bystanders while watched by Gardai in any town or city in Ireland - this definitely sounds like a makey uppy story!!

Id be very careful regarding reporting him for drink driving unless Id sat there watching him do the drinking and KNEW he was drinking alcohol. Rumour can easily grow to life ruining proportions and by the sounds of things the locals in this place have just taken a dislike to the guy and no matter what he does he will be in the wrong.


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## Moral Ethos (27 May 2010)

Agree 100%. Unless someone has real proof they should keep their mouths shut. I have no problem with Gardaí enforcing the laws. If people can't be bothered to park properly or pay their road tax they should face the full rigours of the law.


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## mathepac (27 May 2010)

truthseeker said:


> I dont see the issue with any of the law  enforcement 'problems' mentioned.
> ...  he cheesed off the locals in the last place story - how would  anyone know that? Sounds like another rumour.
> ... Id be very careful regarding reporting him for drink driving unless  Id sat there watching him do the drinking and KNEW he was drinking  alcohol.
> ... by the sounds of things the locals in this place have just taken a  dislike to the guy and no matter what he does he will be in the  wrong.


Interesting post.

How were you able to distinguish between the "factual" parts of the original post regarding  law-enforcement, accepted at face value, and the "rumour" and "story" that have grown out of the local dislike to the Guard in question?

I've re-read OP's contributions again and I can't seem to detect any subtle nuances or even glaring differences. What have I missed? What lead you to use your interpretive and analytical skills in one place and just accept the facts as stated in another?


Moral Ethos said:


> ... Unless someone has real proof they should keep their mouths shut. ...


That's not the way our system of law-enforcement works. Citizens report suspicions or observations to the appropriate authorities who are chartered to investigate, gather evidence, and either prosecute or refer on for further action. It works well and prevents citizens getting caught up in the minutiae of law-enforcement, or running investigations themselves.


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## truthseeker (28 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> How were you able to distinguish between the "factual" parts of the original post regarding law-enforcement, accepted at face value, and the "rumour" and "story" that have grown out of the local dislike to the Guard in question?


 
By using common sense.


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## redbhoy (28 May 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Ive not had experience of drunkards knocking the hell out of each other and bystanders while watched by Gardai in any town or city in Ireland - this definitely sounds like a makey uppy story!


 

The rest of your post seems fair but as for this part, Lucky you. On numerous occassions Ive watched Gardaí stand by and look on as people were going hell for leather at each other. No arrests so long as the crowd dispersed afterwards. I seen a young lad get a headbutt for nothing and Gardaí going to arrest the victim while letting the toerag who did it walk away. Obviously not all Gardaí are the same but Ive seen a lot who fit this description.


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## Staples (28 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> Citizens report suspicions or observations to the appropriate authorities who are chartered to investigate, gather evidence, and either prosecute or refer on for further action.


 
In fairness, it helps it you're acting on something more than a hunch or rumour.


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## Caveat (28 May 2010)

redbhoy said:


> On numerous occassions Ive watched Gardaí stand by and look on as people were going hell for leather at each other. No arrests so long as the crowd dispersed afterwards. I seen a young lad get a headbutt for nothing and Gardaí going to arrest the victim while letting the toerag who did it walk away. Obviously not all Gardaí are the same but Ive seen a lot who fit this description.


 
I've had similar experiences.


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## Vanilla (28 May 2010)

I spent a year living in a large town centre in an apartment overlooking the town square. Every friday night and saturday night ( and sometimes sunday) I could see more or less the same crowd outside the local chipper, after the night club, fighting( actually fighting with each other)/screaming/messing while the local gardai sat in their squad car down the street looking on.


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## MANTO (28 May 2010)

Vanilla said:


> I spent a year living in a large town centre in an apartment overlooking the town square. Every friday night and saturday night ( and sometimes sunday) I could see more or less the same crowd outside the local chipper, after the night club, fighting( actually fighting with each other)/screaming/messing while the local gardai sat in their squad car down the street looking on.


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## Vanilla (28 May 2010)

How did you know it was Kilnascully?


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## Guest103 (28 May 2010)

Drink Driving!
No Tax or Insurance!
Drinking in Pubs after hours!
Parking violations!
Speeding!

This sounds like trouble to me!

The Garda in question is only doing his job. He's not there to be your friend. He's there to enforce the law. Perhaps the previous Garda wasn't doing his job very well.

It sounds like if you obey the laws then you won't have any hassle with this Garda.

Regarding his alleged drink driving, there may be an element of sour grapes. If there is truth to this then he will be found out in time.

You may not like him but he seems to be doing the job he is paid to do.


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## redbhoy (28 May 2010)

Are the Gardaí Síochána not supposed to keep the peace? We have gone all 'Minority Report' on crime in this country, charging people for future crimes.
If government thinks speeding is a problem then why havent they introduced restrictors on car engines similar to ones on certain motorbikes?? Would it be that the government doesnt give a toss about deaths and only cares about Ireland Incorporated and its bottom line??

This Garda might be only 'doing his job' and you think its great as if he didnt theres a possiblity that the local area could descend into chaos. Fear is a great weapon of the government. The Fear of what MIGHT happen. Well lets flip it around and think that maybe if we were allowed do as we please so long as we didnt breach the peace well then society would be a mich happier place in fact with less crime etc. Why dont we look on the possibility of a positive instead of always looking for a negative spin on things.


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## notagardener (28 May 2010)

*Report the matter to the Garda Ombudsman*

*Address:*

150 Abbey Street Upper, Dublin 1.

LoCall: *1890 600 800*, Phone: *01 871 67 27 *

*Q1.: Will the new system of investigating complaints be any different from the old system, under the Garda Síochána Complaints Board?*


*A.:*The Garda Ombudsman will have its own, trained investigations staff, unlike the Garda Síochána Complaints Board which relied on Gardaí to investigate complaints against Gardaí.


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## redbhoy (28 May 2010)

Funny that. I have a friend who is currently pursuing a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman and guess what? It was a Garda who interviewed him only last week. My friend said that he went in all confident and came out feeling like he had just been de-programmed. The Garda more or less said it probably wouldnt go any further even though theres several witnesses and affidavits filed. He knows about NLP techniques and thinks the Garda investigator was using them.


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## Slash (28 May 2010)

mercman said:


> The new Garda has chosen to make the locals life hell: waiting outside the pubs, writing down registration numbers of people in pub so they can be approached the following morning. If tax or Insurance is expired rather than offer a casual word issues summons.  Walking into pubs to clear them and forcing customers out before drinks finished. Warning people/elderly who park incorrectly outside the local shop. Countless road blocks in different locations for speeding. Lays down the law sternly to the local publicans.



What? A Garda is enforcing the law? The nerve of him. Who does he think he is?

Look, the laws are not only for "that crowd up in Dublin and we have our own ways of doing things here". Laws are to be obeyed, whether you like them or not. If you don't like the law, write to your local legislator and ask for the law to be changed. But until then, just obey the law.


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## Moral Ethos (28 May 2010)

notagardener said:


> *Report the matter to the Garda Ombudsman*
> 
> *Address:*
> 
> ...



Not entirely true. Many complaints are sent back from GSOC to local superintendents to investigate.


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## Caveat (28 May 2010)

redbhoy said:


> NLP techniques


 
 What's this?


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## BoscoTalking (28 May 2010)

mercman said:


> This is an area where there has never been trouble.  ?


im sure there was none when the last garda turned a blind eye to anyone breaking the law.


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## notagardener (28 May 2010)

redbhoy said:


> Funny that. I have a friend who is currently pursuing a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman and guess what? It was a Garda who interviewed him only last week. My friend said that he went in all confident and came out feeling like he had just been de-programmed. The Garda more or less said it probably wouldnt go any further even though theres several witnesses and affidavits filed. He knows about NLP techniques and thinks the Garda investigator was using them.


 
I think I use them persuasion techniques everyday with the kids 

That's not what you like to hear, but I do know of a case whereas there was a positive result from the ombudsman with regard to a complaint. I suppose depending on the complaint, it may be hard to prove, but in the case of the OP I don't think it would be too hard for an investigator to investigate a Garda drink driving and breaking the law. Or maybe I'm just being naive.


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## Teatime (28 May 2010)

This happened in a rural part of west Co Galway about 10 years ago and the Garda's house got burnt down. He got moved soon after.


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## Ash 22 (28 May 2010)

The majority of guards are very approachable and use their common sense. It is great to have a good guard in a country area but this guy seems a little too eager which is making him unpopular with the locals. It would make his job a lot easier for himself if he had started off in a good footing in his new area and by getting to know the locals and winning their trust. We had a fantastic guard in our area a few years back and he was really popular. His local knowledge of everything going on was tops as he was always visiting houses and getting the bits of local info. He was well able to deal with anything that happened. He was respected by young and old alike and able to nip something in the bud without anybody being hounded. 
If the drinking issue is true it's very serious and should be reported to his superintendent, but one should be very careful as previous posters have stated as this may be only rumour. I would find it very hard to believe he would leave himself so open to drink and drive unless he's really lacking intelligence. The other thing is he may be under the scrutiny of his officers already if he's had problems in his last area. So eventually if he oversteps the mark he'll be weeded out.


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## UptheDeise (29 May 2010)

I heard a story a good while back about a certain Garda harrassing locals in some rural village in co. Offaly. The locals eventually gave him a baytin. He was transferred almost immediately.


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## Ash 22 (29 May 2010)

Sounds like a good story, fact or fiction?


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## ShadyBrady (29 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> it's a big deal for a garda to be a persistent, dangerous law-breaker, *it's a bigger deal for me that he not be reported simply because he's a garda or because his erstwhile colleagues might want pay-back.* i'd prefer that he lose his job rather than his life or that he take someone else's.


+1


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## Vanilla (29 May 2010)

Caveat said:


> What's this?


 
Neuro-linguistic programming, I'm guessing.


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## mathepac (29 May 2010)

Vanilla said:


> Neuro-linguistic programming ...


Or as an American colleague used to say "$10 worth of words to describe 5¢ worth of technology".


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## ShadyBrady (29 May 2010)

redbhoy said:


> Funny that. I have a friend who is currently pursuing a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman and guess what? It was a Garda who interviewed him only last week. My friend said that he went in all confident and came out feeling like he had just been *de-programmed.* The Garda more or less said it probably wouldnt go any further even though theres several witnesses and affidavits filed. He knows about NLP techniques and thinks the Garda investigator was using them.


For less serious complaints it is a garda doing the interviewing. No offence to your friend but he may have been nieve to be "all confident" 

Anyone who thinks they are having a chat with a garda are on a highway to delusion. The garda are trained to investigate/decieve and lie and probably are trained in NLP or similar. I would suggest anyone considering complaining about the garda read about techniques of interrogation/NLP etc and always be on your guard when talking to a guard.pun intended.

I would not accept that the case will go no further. i would take time to* re programme* myself and would write back to the GSOC and if necessary seek a different garda. Indeed, if the case is at a mediation stage, then both parties must be happy with the mediation. Whatever garda you get remember they are trained to deceive. If they weren't how could they investigate real criminals. Many convictions are the result of admissions made as the result of deceptive pretexts where the guy would probably be walking had he kept his mouth shut. Why do serious crims and terrorists keep silent?


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## ShadyBrady (29 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> Or as an American colleague used to say "$10 worth of words to describe 5¢ worth of technology".


quite true of  NLP but psychological techniques can be extremely affective


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## ShadyBrady (29 May 2010)

Moral Ethos said:


> Not entirely true. Many complaints are sent back from GSOC to local superintendents to investigate.


correct and it is *important to remember* 

*Garda Investigation
*The Garda Ombudsman may refer your complaint to the Garda Commissioner for investigation under the Disciplinary Regulations. *If you are not happy with the outcome of a Garda Investigation you can request that the Garda Ombudsman review your case. *


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## ajapale (30 May 2010)

Thread closed


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