# Granny flat



## corco2000 (17 Nov 2017)

Have people seen many of these granny flats granted full pp? Development not attached to main dwelling.
If so what are conditions attached typically? 
Ie has to be family member. How are conditions enforced.?
I see alot of log type cabins popping up around south dublin. Hard to imagine all have planning. 
How do I search co co websites for previous applications on these. Out of interest.
thanks.


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## muno (19 Nov 2017)

I'm in a similar situation and can only find permission for granny flats attached to the property , meathcoco


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## Bronte (20 Nov 2017)

I imagine they are put up without PP.  One time I applied for PP for a side extension, but I got two sets of plans.  One was for the CC and the other was what I intended to do which was build a two bedroom unit.  Never got around to it in the end.  But the estate where it is every third house either has a flat at the side or in the garden rented out.  And nobody bothered with planning permission it seemed to me as they wouldn't get it.


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

Fully separate stand-alone units will not get planning unless they meet all the minimum requirements on space, etc. as a separate dwelling. 

The attached variety always come with conditions attached that state the flat must at all times be occupied by a member of the extended family, and it is explicitly prohibited to let them out. 

Many of the cabins fall within the exemption rules, as they are not set up as habitable units. Using them for such would in the majority of cases be illegal. If reported, the LA will take enforcement action and ultimately you will be forced demolish it and pay a fine and the LA's costs. Dublin City receiver more than 1200 such reports each year. The Planning and Development Act 2000 significantly upped the penalties that can be applied in such cases.


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## cremeegg (20 Nov 2017)

It is no wonder there is a housing shortage.

In London many if not most 3 bed homes have been converted to two apartments.


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

Sticking a wooden shed in a garden and letting it out as a separate dwelling isn't a good way of addressing a housing shortage.


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## cremeegg (20 Nov 2017)

Leo said:


> Sticking a wooden shed in a garden and letting it out as a separate dwelling isn't a good way of addressing a housing shortage.



Perhaps not, but a template to convert the many underused 3/4 bed houses in the Dublin suburbs into two separate apartments could transform the housing situation.


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

cremeegg said:


> Perhaps not, but a template to convert the many underused 3/4 bed houses in the Dublin suburbs into two separate apartments could transform the housing situation.



London has the advantage of lots of Georgian terraces that are usually much better suited to this, but I don't disagree with the sentiment. However, it's off-topic here as it doesn't relate the the OP's question.


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## Bronte (20 Nov 2017)

Leo said:


> Sticking a wooden shed in a garden and letting it out as a separate dwelling isn't a good way of addressing a housing shortage.




My plumber, since deceased, converted his garage into a flat and build a lovely chalet in the garden too.  Both let out and no way did he apply for planning permission.  He did a great job on them too.  There is no reason why the property of mine I referred to couldn't have a two bed unit at the side (garage conversion) and a chalet in the garden too, there is plenty of room.  The only reason I haven't done it is because of the cost of it versus the fact the property value would not reflect that cost.


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## Bronte (20 Nov 2017)

Leo said:


> f reported, the LA will take enforcement action and ultimately you will be forced demolish it and pay a fine and the LA's costs. Dublin City receiver more than 1200 such reports each year. The Planning and Development Act 2000 significantly upped the penalties that can be applied in such cases.



Ok Leo how many of those 1200 reported cases resulted in demolition or fines?  We all know that once something is standing 12 years the LA can do nothing.


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

The problem is where they are not done right, and in many cases, it would not be possible to create such a unit that would meet building regs.


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

Bronte said:


> Ok Leo how many of those 1200 reported cases resulted in demolition or fines?  We all know that once something is standing 12 years the LA can do nothing.



You'll need to ask the LA. And just because they can get enforcement after 12 years doesn't make the problem go away. Banks will no longer provide a mortgage to buy a non-compliant property


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## Bronte (20 Nov 2017)

Yes aware about the morgage issue, simples though, I was going to put a door into the house from the granny flat, then that was kosher. And the chalet, well it would be a shed wouldn't it.  Albeit a well lit, heated and plumbed shed.  Or a man space.


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## Bronte (20 Nov 2017)

Actually that reminds me, I converted a house into two flats, around about 15 years ago now.  Paid LPT on each flat and the city council are now paying me rent on one of them via HAP. Never asked me anything about planning.  I guess I'll have to worry about planning if I ever sell.


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## corco2000 (20 Nov 2017)

Leo.
Do you have a link by any chance of the conditions of a seperate stand alone flat. Space parking etc... or could you expand on your knowledge of these stipulations. To pass fpp granted.
Also if there observations when applying for fpp I take it they'd have to be grounded and not just a personal grudge etc.
thanks


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## Leo (20 Nov 2017)

corco2000 said:


> Leo.
> Do you have a link by any chance of the conditions of a seperate stand alone flat. Space parking etc... or could you expand on your knowledge of these stipulations. To pass fpp granted.
> Also if there observations when applying for fpp I take it they'd have to be grounded and not just a personal grudge etc.
> thanks



Take a look at you Local Authorities Development Plan, that will likely give some idea on what they are looking for in terms or housing and parking density. For example, see the Dublin City plan. But these are guidelines, and you should talk to a local planner who will better advise on the chances of your proposal succeeding.  The Building Regs are all detailed here.


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## corco2000 (20 Nov 2017)

Thank you


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## kceire (22 Nov 2017)

cremeegg said:


> Perhaps not, but a template to convert the many underused 3/4 bed houses in the Dublin suburbs into two separate apartments could transform the housing situation.



This happens in Dublin. Once Planning is obtained, they then go for a Fire Safety Certificate and a Disability Access Certificate.
its not popular here but its not outlawed or anything, just not many property owners avail of the possible uses.



Bronte said:


> Ok Leo how many of those 1200 reported cases resulted in demolition or fines?  We all know that once something is standing 12 years the LA can do nothing.



7 years is the figure for an unenforceable action from the LA, but if that relates to use there is no time limit. People often quote the 7 years and the 12 years but these just relate to conditions on a granted planning application.



corco2000 said:


> Leo.
> Do you have a link by any chance of the conditions of a seperate stand alone flat. Space parking etc... or could you expand on your knowledge of these stipulations. To pass fpp granted.
> Also if there observations when applying for fpp I take it they'd have to be grounded and not just a personal grudge etc.
> thanks



There are no standard conditions, you will be applying for a one off dwelling. Its all contained in the City Development Plan.
Anyone involved in preparing planning applications could give you an idea. Typically, you will not get planning from my experience in a vast vast amount of similar developments.



Bronte said:


> Actually that reminds me, I converted a house into two flats, around about 15 years ago now.  Paid LPT on each flat and the city council are now paying me rent on one of them via HAP. Never asked me anything about planning.  I guess I'll have to worry about planning if I ever sell.



You also require a Fire Safety Certificate. This one could land you in hot water too.


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## Bronte (23 Nov 2017)

What do you mean by a Fire Safety Certificate. HAP didn't ask me for that.  I've a Gas conformance certificate, gas (CO) detectors, smoke alarms, extinguishers.  I got a letter this year from HAP and from the PRTB about the Grenfell Tower.  Haven't seen that I don't comply with anything.

If it's 7 years in relation to use what can the LA do.  What do they actually do.  What did they do with the 1200 cases that Leo mentioned in Dublin.  I've never ever been inspected despite property in two cities for more than two decades.  (not Dublin) And despite having many local authority tenants over the years.


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## kceire (23 Nov 2017)

Bronte said:


> What do you mean by a Fire Safety Certificate. HAP didn't ask me for that.  I've a Gas conformance certificate, gas (CO) detectors, smoke alarms, extinguishers.  I got a letter this year from HAP and from the PRTB about the Grenfell Tower.  Haven't seen that I don't comply with anything.
> 
> If it's 7 years in relation to use what can the LA do.  What do they actually do.  What did they do with the 1200 cases that Leo mentioned in Dublin.  I've never ever been inspected despite property in two cities for more than two decades.  (not Dublin) And despite having many local authority tenants over the years.



If you create a flat, you require a fire safety certificate. It’s Part 3 of the Building Regulations.

HAP, PRTB etc do not inspect for or require details on building regulation/planning compliance. 

Basically I could build 10 hoses tomorrow and rent them to HAP. if I don’t have Planning, that’s a different issue.


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