# Fair Deal Scheme



## trojan (11 Apr 2018)

I was looking into the question of access to Nursing Homes. It would appear that a person needs to be accepted into the Fair Deal Scheme before you can try and get access to a Nursing Home either in the private or public sector. This was confirmed to me by many such homes. Apart from people who can afford to pay cash i have heard of people going into nursing homes without the Fair deal  and am wondering how this is possible.


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## browtal (11 Apr 2018)

You will find it very difficult to get the benefit of the Fair Deal scheme if the person is already in a nursing home.  The approval must be secured first. 
It is not a bad scheme, many people believe that paying the costs themselves is prohibitive. Should the person have a prediction of a short lifespan, then it is well worth considering paying.

Call into your local HSE office and look for the person who deals with this issue. They are most helpful, what they don’t like is giving information on a fictitious future issue. For the individual looking for 
Infomation you should be entitled to the same service.


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## Easter (12 Apr 2018)

browtal said:


> You will find it very difficult to get the benefit of the Fair Deal scheme if the person is already in a nursing home.  The approval must be secured first.



This is not the case. If you are in a position to pay privately initially you can then switch to Fair Deal if/when approved. I don’t think this is what the OP was actually asking though?


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## trojan (12 Apr 2018)

My query is how do people get into nursing homes who do not pay cash (approx 1500 euro weekly) and are not approved for the fair deal scheme. Maybe it is not a frequent occurence but i am aware of such a situation.


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## Slim (12 Apr 2018)

Easter is correct. If a person needs to be admitted to a nursing home urgently, an application for FD can be submitted and, if approved, FD can be backdated to date of entry. Most nursing homes will wait for approval and back payment. Application needs to be almost immediately as FD will only be approved from date of application.


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## Marsha25 (12 Apr 2018)

My father availed of the fair deal.  The day it was approved he moved into the home. However it was nearly 3 weeks before the scheme kicked in and until that date he had to pay full whack and wasn't given any back payment.  
Trojan do you know why the person was refused the FD scheme?  That would be an awful predicament.  €1500 per week seems excessive - dad was in rural Ireland, his was €790 per week.  I appreciate larger cities would charge more but €1500 is nuts.


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## gipimann (12 Apr 2018)

2 years ago, my father was transferred from hospital to a nursing home (arranged by the hospital social worker).  An application for FD was made at the time of his transfer.  It took 3 months to be approved.   The family paid nothing pending the outcome, and when the FD was approved, the family had to pay the balance due for the 3 months (the difference between the full monthly charge and the FD payment).

Weekly charges were over €1100 per month.


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## trojan (12 Apr 2018)

In rfegard to Marsha25 query the person was not refused by Fair Deal but had not submitted an application.


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## Monbretia (12 Apr 2018)

Then I'd imagine someone is going to have to pay, are family paying maybe?


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## Easter (14 Apr 2018)

Slim said:


> Easter is correct. If a person needs to be admitted to a nursing home urgently, an application for FD can be submitted and, if approved, FD can be backdated to date of entry.



This isn’t what I said! The Fair Deal contribution cannot be backdated. Someone in a position to pay privately can do so and then switch to Fair Deal when approves. There will be no refund of fees paid privately.

I have had the experience of an elderly relative been granted the fees for a nursing home by a hospital where she was essentially a bed blocker. I don’t know the mechanism through which it was done, but I think it had something to do with the hospital based social worker. In this case there was a delay processing the Fair Deal application and bridging funding was granted to free up the hospital bed.


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## Joanne Heeney (14 Apr 2018)

My mother is in a home in south Dublin and we are paying 7,500 a month. Crazy costs. We are depleting down her savings before we apply for Fair Deal.


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## twofor1 (14 Apr 2018)

trojan said:


> Apart from people who can afford to pay cash i have heard of people going into nursing homes without the Fair deal  and am wondering how this is possible.



Transitional Care Funding, from the HSE is one way.

If the person is in hospital it can be accessed through the hospital social worker.

If the person is living at home it can be accessed through the local public health nurse.

In my experience transitional care funding is not given easily and will only be considered when all documentation has been submitted for the Fair Deal application. It is also subject to funding being available.

Another way is the contract beds that the HSE have in private nursing homes. These beds are typically used for respite. A person being cared for at home would be allocated one of these beds for a couple of weeks to give a family member caring for them a break. One of these beds could also be used when a person for whatever reason needed immediate nursing home care.


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## twofor1 (14 Apr 2018)

Joanne Heeney said:


> My mother is in a home in south Dublin and we are paying 7,500 a month. Crazy costs. We are depleting down her savings before we apply for Fair Deal.



Bear in mind when you do apply for Fair Deal and if approved etc, the HSE’s contribution will be based on the standard cost which is probably less than €5K monthly if it is a private nursing home. (Some public nursing homes can cost substantially more)

The additional €2.5K+ monthly for premium packages and activity charges is not covered under Fair Deal and will have to be paid privately as well as your Mam’s assessed contribution under Fair Deal for as long as she remains in the nursing home. Don’t deplete the savings to much

It is also worth pointing out that when in under Fair Deal you can request a financial reassessment annually, this can be very beneficial, particularly for those who don’t avail of the loan but also for those whose savings are reducing quickly through additional costs like premium packages, medical expenses etc.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Apr 2018)

Has anyone experience of the Fair Deal and other assets, like a car, or another property. I know they go back 5 yrs but what happens say if they can no longer drive and the car is transferred to say a child in the time. So they look for 7.5% the value of the car, when they entered the FD. 

I think you also have to consider the cost of the Fair Deal Scheme for a year plus other expenses. vs paying for it over the expect lifetime of the person being cared for. 

I also think the Fair Deal will force the assets to be divided up when the person passes which might also prevent squabbling over houses and such.


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## sadie (15 Apr 2018)

Just a reminder there is a great thread here with the various scenarios demonstrated:  https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/explaining-the-fair-deal-scheme.204754/


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## twofor1 (15 Apr 2018)

AlbacoreA said:


> Has anyone experience of the Fair Deal and other assets, like a car, or another property. I know they go back 5 yrs but what happens say if they can no longer drive and the car is transferred to say a child in the time. So they look for 7.5% the value of the car, when they entered the FD.



You must declare all assets, the application form defines non cash assets as;

*Part 4B – Details of Non-Cash Assets*

_Non-Cash Assets means all forms of property, land or *valuables* owned by you and your spouse or partner, whether within the State or outside._

_https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/application-form-nhss1.pdf _

When a person in care passes away the HSE will look for a schedule of their assets. According to this article 25% of Fair Deal applications forget to declare all their assets.

https://www.independent.ie/business...r-of-people-underdeclare-assets-35404772.html

I would be surprised though if many declared the modest declining in value family car that they might have transferred to a child.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Apr 2018)

Thanks.


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