# Great interview, great presentation, but didn't get the job



## BillK (20 Mar 2007)

My niece went over to Dublin for an interview for a fairly senior job with an organisation which shall remain nameless.

She returned home to England and in the fullness of time had a letter to say that she was not successful and gave her a phone number to ring if she wanted feedback on why.

She rang, of course, and during the conversation was told that her interview was the best as was the presentation that she made, but that _her application form was poor._ (My italics) She was then asked if she would be interested in a similar post based in Cork and on saying yes was told that they would send the appropriate details.

I should point out that she neglected to say that she is of Irish descent and that her partner's uncle is a Minister in the present government (not that this would have made any difference I'm sure).

I would welcome any comments or guidance that I could pass on to the dear girl.


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## KalEl (20 Mar 2007)

What exactly is your query-should she take the job, whether not giving her the first job was fair or how she should approach this new interview process?
Personally if I was interviewing someone and they told me their boyfriend's uncle was a Minister I'd rule them out straight away for a lack of common sense.


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## Irish Fire (20 Mar 2007)

KalEl said:


> Personally if I was interviewing someone and they told me their boyfriend's uncle was a Minister I'd rule them out straight away for a lack of common sense.


 
I agree, by the way why is she not good enough for a position in one branch and good enough for the same position (i assume) in another branch??


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Mar 2007)

It seems fairly straightforward to me.

She applied for a job. She was good, but there were better applicants for the job, so she did not get the job. 

There might be fewer applicants for the same job in Cork. 

She might also have not been good, but they don't want to tell her that.

Brendan


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## Lauren (21 Mar 2007)

Why is the fact that she is of Irish descent and related to a minister even relevant for the query or am I missing something?


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## pinkyBear (21 Mar 2007)

Hi Billk,
I sympathise with your daughter, I have done sooooooo many interviews (I was temporary in the public sector ) for public sector jobs and had a strong CV with strong experience but I was not offered positions.

The more interviews I did the better my technique, but alas. 
Sometimes things dont go your way and you are left wondering why.
Try not to take things too hard, the right job will come, interviews are a win/ win situation - if you dont get the job you get great experience in doing interviews (this in itself is a skill), if you do get the job - great!

In my own personal experience, I decided to take my skills else where, and got a great job, better money, conditions, prospects. 

Best of luck


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## Irish Fire (21 Mar 2007)

Lauren said:


> Why is the fact that she is of Irish descent and related to a minister even relevant for the query or am I missing something?


 
I could make a comment but I won't........


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## Lauren (21 Mar 2007)

Ahh go on!


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## ClubMan (21 Mar 2007)

pinkyBear said:


> Hi Billk,
> I sympathise with your daughter


Why - did she do an interview as well as his niece?


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## Purple (21 Mar 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Why - did she do an interview as well as his niece?



Dry, very dry... but good.


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## z107 (21 Mar 2007)

> Personally if I was interviewing someone and they told me their boyfriend's uncle was a Minister I'd rule them out straight away for a lack of common sense.



I would too.
They should be far more subtle than that about it.


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## pinkyBear (21 Mar 2007)

Well spotted C !


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## buzybee (21 Mar 2007)

Do you think that because her partner's uncle is a minister, then she has a better entitlement to the job than an ordinary person???

I have no 'contacts'.  Despite being well educated, and having good experience, I have always struggled to get jobs.  It seems the jobs are given to people who are 'better connected' than me.

I hate the way some people think the world owes them a living, and they can bypass the queue just because of who they are.

If I heard of an applicant making it known that they had 'connections' I would rule them out at the application stage.  It shows they don't want to compete fair and square with everyone else, and are just looking for an easy life.


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## ClubMan (21 Mar 2007)

Saying explicitly that you had "contacts" or even dropping heavy hints could well fall foul of the "no canvassing" rules that apply to most or all public/civil service and semi-state jobs in case that's relevant here. (It's not clear from the original post whether it was a public or private sector job interview).


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## KalEl (21 Mar 2007)

buzybee said:


> If I heard of an applicant making it known that they had 'connections' I would rule them out at the application stage. It shows they don't want to compete fair and square with everyone else, and are just looking for an easy life.


 
Making it known you have connections is bad enough...but when they're pretty tenuous it's just ridiculous.
Besides, how do you know if the interviewer is a Jedi or a Sith?


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## legend99 (22 Mar 2007)

for starters if you haev put together a crap App. Form with say bad grammer/bad quality writing/poor content then no matter how well you do in actual interview you're fighting an uphill battle.


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## pinkyBear (22 Mar 2007)

Hi Clubman / Kalie


> Making it known you have connections is bad enough...but when they're pretty tenuous it's just ridiculous.
> Besides, how do you know if the interviewer is a Jedi or a Sith?


 
I think if you read the OP 


> I should point out that she neglected to say that she is of Irish descent and that her partner's uncle is a Minister in the present government (not that this would have made any difference I'm sure).


I dont think the interview told them who she was related to. However it is not clear

And as regards, to a crap application form, if it was that bad they would not have interviewed her in the first place. 

My advise to the OP, is learn what you can for interviews, you are putting yourself out there so knock back are tough but are all part of the game.
P


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## Dunners (22 Mar 2007)

If this is a senior position, then it should be a given that she has excellent written communication skills, and obviously this did not come across on her application form.  Therefore, no matter how well she presented at the interview, the panel obviously felt that written communication skills were a core competency for this post...


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## Square Mile (22 Mar 2007)

Hello

Maybe the applicant for the job should have had her uncle do the interview for her in the first place, in the same way as he is seeking advice in this forum on her behalf.  

SM


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## Lipstick69 (22 Mar 2007)

I think the point (although I must admit not well made) that the interviewers didn't know that she had links to Ireland before offering her a job in Ireland, but not the one in the UK. 

Personally I would imagine that if (a) the story is true - best interview etc. yet they didn't offer her the job, I wouldn't want to work for a company like that anyway (b) they simply were fobbing her off and the interview wasn't so hot (c) they could get someone nearer/cheaper who did a good but not outstanding interview...could be a million and one things.


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## Vanilla (22 Mar 2007)

Is the OP saying that his niece didnt get the job because she is English and neglected to inform the interviewers that she is of Irish descent? I think this is the subtext. That may be the case depending on the nature of the job and the interviewers. It might be that they would prefer an Irish person over an English person for various reasons. If the OP believes this is the case then she should subtly include the informations on the application or in the next interview.

Is the OP asking whether she should have mentioned her connection to an Irish Minister? That depends on the job, the interviewers and so on. She is better placed to answer that herself. No matter how much we ( and possibly the OP and his niece) might dislike the idea it is quite possible that a connection to a politician might be an added incentive to hire her. Again if she feels it might make the difference then, depending on whether her principles outweigh any moral abhorrence she might have to doing so, she should have mentioned it in a very oblique way if that were possible.


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## ClubMan (22 Mar 2007)

Square Mile said:


> Hello
> 
> Maybe the applicant for the job should have had her uncle do the interview for her in the first place, in the same way as he is seeking advice in this forum on her behalf.
> 
> SM


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## mprsv1000 (22 Mar 2007)

BillK said:


> I should point out that she neglected to say that she is of Irish descent and that her partner's uncle is a Minister in the present government (not that this would have made any difference I'm sure).


  Well it all depends on what her partners (it might not be a boyfriend!) uncle was minister of and his attitude towards back scratching

Interestingly I went for a senior post recently came accross from the U.K and (got the job) I know the agency also sent a female candidate fromthe U.K aslo...mmmmmmmh! not a job in education by change?

If she scored highest on the day then really she should have been offered the job, if it was close between two applicants then they might revert to the application form, so something doesn't sound quite right.


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## BillK (22 Mar 2007)

Well done Vanilla; you seem to be one of very few posters to have read the original post.

I was not looking for advice, simply for comments - I have lived in England for 60 years and am not too familiar with work practices in Ireland.


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## ClubMan (22 Mar 2007)

BillK said:


> I was not looking for advice


Er...


BillK said:


> I would welcome any comments or guidance that I could pass on to the dear girl.


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## Moose (30 Mar 2007)

I have a question about canvassing that doesn't merit its own thread, so I'm putting it here. I noticed a job advertised recently for a new local development that has really caught my interest. This advertised job is managerial and currently far out of my league, but it got me thinking that there may well be admin jobs in the pipeline. I've visited the website of the development and there's no concrete date set yet for its opening. If I sent a covering letter and CV for the attention of the person concerned with filling the managerial job (this person is based in City Hall, so perhaps they have stricter guidelines re unsolicited CVs), stressing that I realise I am not qualified for this particular post but would appreciate it if they could keep my CV on file for more suitable roles in future, would this be interpreted as "canvassing" or as "Oh, this person is quite enthusiastic about working on this project"?


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## RainyDay (30 Mar 2007)

Moose said:


> I have a question about canvassing that doesn't merit its own thread, so I'm putting it here. I noticed a job advertised recently for a new local development that has really caught my interest. This advertised job is managerial and currently far out of my league, but it got me thinking that there may well be admin jobs in the pipeline. I've visited the website of the development and there's no concrete date set yet for its opening. If I sent a covering letter and CV for the attention of the person concerned with filling the managerial job (this person is based in City Hall, so perhaps they have stricter guidelines re unsolicited CVs), stressing that I realise I am not qualified for this particular post but would appreciate it if they could keep my CV on file for more suitable roles in future, would this be interpreted as "canvassing" or as "Oh, this person is quite enthusiastic about working on this project"?


If the role is a public sector role, the rules of openness and transparency would mean that the hiring manager can do nothing with the unsolicited CV should new roles open up. The best you can hope for is that they would notify you of vacancies.


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## Moose (30 Mar 2007)

I'm not actually sure if the role is a public sector one (the managerial one certainly doesn't seem to have the usual clarifications that you'd find in a public sector job announcement), even though the submission address is City Hall. I'd have assumed - as you said - that City Hall can't really do anything with CVs that aren't in direct response to an advertised vacancy, but I guess I'd be happy with sending it in just to signal enthusiasm, regardless of the fact that there would still be a need to reapply via an application form or similar if a role was advertised. As long as it wasn't seen as canvassing, I guess it couldn't hurt. It's not exactly a lucrative job opening but I am genuinely interested in the underlying sector.


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