# Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts until Nov 16th



## deputyjk (1 Nov 2007)

I see this morning that Rabo are offering a 0% entry fee for all investment funds for the month of Nov. 

Anyone any hot tips of what funds to go for? (or avoid?)


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Don't forget that the annual management fee of 0.7%-2% and the exit fee of 0.75% on the gross value of the fund still applies. You can get unit linked funds elsewhere with no charges other than an annual management fee of c. 1%.


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## deputyjk (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Thanks clubman but I find the ease of online buying and disposing of funds via rabo's internet banking worth the extra charge


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## ShaneMc (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

The ease of buying online is outdone by the need to do your own tax return in my opinion.


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

I think that there are other funds with lower charges that you can trade online. And then there are _ETFs _etc.


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## deputyjk (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Isnt Rabo supposed to be releasing a tax calculator this month for doing your returns?


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## TSThomas (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Yeah, I saw that myself a few days back... ahh, here's what I'd come across;

[broken link removed]

In the coming weeks we plan to launch a Tax aid which will tell you how much profit you have made on your investments. So, all you have to do, is complete the Revenue tax form on time and work out *23%* of your profit*.


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## deputyjk (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Any tips on the funds anyway?


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## homer911 (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Damn, bought some more YESTERDAY (still, only paid .25% on the MLIF New Energy which is worth a punt with oil going through the roof)


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## bsloe (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



ClubMan said:


> Don't forget that the annual management fee of 0.7%-2% and the exit fee of 0.75% on the gross value of the fund still applies. You can get unit linked funds elsewhere with no charges other than an annual management fee of c. 1%.


clubman - are you talking about QL funds or am I missing out on something


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

_QL _is just one option that fits the bill here. There are others - e.g. offers through discount execution only brokers - that involve only a c. 1% annual management fee and no other charges.


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## deputyjk (2 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Clubman, the annual management fee of 0.7 - 2% are you sure this is with rabo. They only mention the entry and exit fees


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## Sunny (2 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



deputyjk said:


> Clubman, the annual management fee of 0.7 - 2% are you sure this is with rabo. They only mention the entry and exit fees


 
Yes, there are annual management charges on the funds and these are priced into the daily NAV. Have a read of the prospectus of any fund you are interested in to get the exact charges


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## shanegl (2 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



deputyjk said:


> Clubman, the annual management fee of 0.7 - 2% are you sure this is with rabo. They only mention the entry and exit fees


 
Mentioned here: [broken link removed]

The fee is charged by the individual fund and is reflected in the daily NAV. You'll find it on the prospectus or fact sheet for each fund.


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## RaboDirect (3 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Please note that the 0% entry on ALL managed funds is available until Nov 16th and not for the entire month. 

[broken link removed]

RaboDirect


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## minion (10 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



RaboDirect said:


> Please note that the 0% entry on ALL managed funds is available until Nov 16th and not for the entire month.
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> RaboDirect



Should be 0% all the time.
People here aint gonna be fooled by this mousetrap


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## bungaloid (10 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



ShaneMc said:


> The ease of buying online is outdone by the need to do your own tax return in my opinion.



Anyone competent to make investment decisions should not have a problem "doing their own tax".


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## ShaneMc (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



bungaloid said:


> Anyone competent to make investment decisions should not have a problem "doing their own tax".


 
I never said there was a competency issue completing the tax, just a hassle issue in my situation.


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## ShaneMc (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



minion said:


> Should be 0% all the time.
> People here aint gonna be fooled by this mousetrap


 
True but as they only sell third party funds they need to take a cut I guess?

If Rabo is as large as they say they are why dont they have their own funds which the could market and not charge the entry/exit fee?


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## ClubMan (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



ShaneMc said:


> I never said there was a competency issue completing the tax, just a hassle issue in my situation.


I agree. I don't consider myself incompetent in such matters but past experience of dealing with complex _CGT _issues (relating to _eircom _and _First Active IPO _shares) has put me off direct share investments or others that require me to do such tax returns myself. With _Rabo _it is this specifically as well as their (in my opinion) relatively high charges that puts me off their offerings.


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## RaboDirect (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

We have updated the taxation information on our site in recent weeks which includes the relevant Revenue form that must be completed including instructions on how to complete it. 
[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]

In the coming weeks RaboDirect investment customers will be able to print out a summary report which will detail the profit made on sales during the chosen period on a First In First Out basis. We had hoped to make it available before the end of October but due to some IT development issues it got a delayed which is unfortunate. We will email our investment customers when it becomes available. 

Re product development - we regularly make contact with Rabobank colleagues re developing new products. Clearly there are many issues to be accounted for from an IT side, to legal and regulatory, product composition etc. However, we are keen to offer products that will have the backing of a AAA rating and depending on the type of product, a separate fee structure. 

RaboDirect


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## bungaloid (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

There are many good reasons not to make a specific investment but I am mystified how a reluctance to "do your own tax returns" could ever be one of them. 

The serious point here is that every investor should keep careful track of profit and loss like any business. If you do that then it is fairly trivial (e.g. with an excel spreadsheet) to compute your CGT. You pay it twice per year and file a return once per year. Online accounts help with the record-keeping as you can check your transactions for a specific stock etc.

You don't want to file capital gains tax returns. Effectively you are saying you don't want to make money by investing. Why then are you offering advice on the subject?


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## ClubMan (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



bungaloid said:


> You don't want to file capital gains tax returns. Effectively you saying you don't want to make money by investing.


No - that's not what I'm saying at all...


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## ashambles (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Might be worth mentioning that since these are funds, CGT isn't the tax that applies. It's the simpler 23% tax, standard rate tax + 3%. 

This doesn't have the complexity/advantage of CGT where losses can be offset against gains and there's no 1270 euro yearly tax free allowance.

Paying the tax yourself does have the modest advantage of you being able to hold on to the tax due till Oct 31 earning a little interest in a deposit account.

While the 23% tax is simpler - be prepared for pain if you hold on the fund for 8 years - as the seemingly poorly thought out 8 year fund anniversary tax will take effect. This will be a burden especially to a person who buys into a fund on a regular basis e.g. monthly, typically a smaller investor.


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## Sarsfield (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



bungaloid said:


> If you do that then it is fairly trivial (e.g. with an excel spreadsheet) to compute your CGT. You pay it twice per year and file a return once per year.


 
Trying to pay the wrong type of tax is another potential pitfall for the novice investor (the type likely to be attracted by a minimum investment of €100 and online buying & selling).


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## ClubMan (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



bungaloid said:


> Anyone competent to make investment decisions should not have a problem "doing their own tax".





bungaloid said:


> If you do that then it is fairly trivial (e.g. with an excel spreadsheet) to compute your CGT. You pay it twice per year and file a return once per year.





Sarsfield said:


> Trying to pay the wrong type of tax is another potential pitfall for the novice investor (the type likely to be attracted by a minimum investment of €100 and online buying & selling).


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## bungaloid (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

Sarsfield, the CGT issue was raised by Clubman (an administrator on this site!) 
who said



ClubMan said:


> ..I don't consider myself incompetent in such matters but past experience of dealing with complex _CGT _issues .. has put me off direct share investments or others that require me to do such tax returns myself. With _Rabo _it is this specifically .. that puts me off their offerings.



That is the correct context and I fully stand over my response to that statement.

As a "novice investor" I would like to remind other "novice investors" that you need to declare the interests you acquire in offshore funds during the tax year. I assume that is to help revenue check compliance with the deemed disposal rules. Ashambles, is that correct?


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## ClubMan (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*

My comment was meant specifically in relation to direct share investments. Admittedly tagging on the bit about _Rabo's_ funds here is misleading but I was aware that it was standard rate plus 3% exit tax and not _CGT _that applied here.


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## mercedes1 (13 Nov 2007)

Hi Clubman, interested in your comment re discount brokers and 1% management fees, can you tell me who these are or where I can get
to invest with them please.


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## minion (17 Nov 2007)

*Re: Rabodirects Investment funds 0% entry fee for all accounts for Nov*



ashambles said:


> Might be worth mentioning that since these are funds, CGT isn't the tax that applies. It's the simpler 23% tax, standard rate tax + 3%.
> 
> This doesn't have the complexity/advantage of CGT where losses can be offset against gains and there's no 1270 euro yearly tax free allowance.



So if i bought 2 different funds for €2000 on the same date and sold 1 year later and one made €500 and the other lost €400 would i have to pay the 23% on €500 or €100 (500-400)?


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## messyleo (17 Nov 2007)

the 23% would be payable on the €500 (the big disadvantage with rabo funds imho)


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## minion (18 Nov 2007)

gravitygirl said:


> the 23% would be payable on the €500 (the big disadvantage with rabo funds imho)



Another X against Rabo funds for me then.


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## bungaloid (18 Nov 2007)

minion said:


> Another X against Rabo funds for me then.



The concensus on this thread is close to claiming that private Irish investors should not invest in offshore funds (EU UCITS).

That conclusion would be plain wrong and in fact slightly mad.

The correct conclusion in my view is that Rabo or other brokers should not be used for high frequency trading in offshore funds. Tax reporting rules, treatment and charges DO NOT favor that. Onshore funds are also unsuitable for that purpose. 

It takes years for the primary tax advantage of fund investing (the gross roll-up rule) to be felt. 

Offshore funds are one way to diversify away from Irish assets/managers. With the ISEQ down 30% since the summer the advantages of diversification should be plain for all to see.


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## ashambles (18 Nov 2007)

> the 23% would be payable on the €500 (the big disadvantage with rabo funds imho)


You cannot offset losses with any funds, Quinn, Irish Life etc., not just Rabo.

The difference with Rabo is you need to calculate your own tax, and remember to pay it on time. It's really not difficult but I can understand why people would prefer to avoid it. 

I'd prefer to concentrate on what the fund consists of and how well managed it appears to be, than the problem of paying tax on it.

Personally I believe taxes should be much more obvious - bit off topic but the main reason US sales tax is less than half of European rates, is that it's added on at the till and consumers can never forget it's there.


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## messyleo (18 Nov 2007)

No but with the quinn/eagle star (the two i have expereince of) products you can have several different funds within the one overall umbrella fund, so that if your stake in the eurozone fund is down €200 and your investment in china is up €300 - your overall fund is up €200 and so you would only pay tax on this. If you invest in a eurozone fund with rabo and a china fund you must do so separately, therefor you pay tax on each fund separately as well (in the above example you would pay tax on the gain of €300)


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## AlastairSC (19 Nov 2007)

mercedes1 said:


> Hi Clubman, interested in your comment re discount brokers and 1% management fees, can you tell me who these are or where I can get
> to invest with them please.


 

Me too, Clubman. Spill de beans, please......


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## RSMike (21 Nov 2007)

Regarding investing in Shares (and Bonds) at the moment, a word of warning, after saving by nest egg from the NR fiasco I decided, what the hell I will risk 10% of it in Rabo funds, at least I know I am taking a risk this time, So I booted a sum in about a month ago, spread it across Mining, Energy, Pan-European, India and a couple of Bonds.

Well in one month I have had 5% wiped off my investment already, granted the way the market went I possibly could not have chosen a worst time to invest in shares, but I thought Bonds were supposed to be a counter-balance against shares, No such luck.

Anyway, be careful, funnily enough the fund I considered (and was advised was) riskiest (india), and put the smallest amount in, is the only one to give a positive return.

I am a novice, I suppose I should hold my nerve and stick with it for another while?, ;-)


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## TSThomas (22 Nov 2007)

Hold your nerve alright; I invested a _little_ in 3 funds a few weeks back on the basis that it may be some years before it's worth disposing of them. Past performance not a guide to future performance & all that... Last week was up about €100; yesterday down about €250.


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## domadd (23 Nov 2007)

Me too. Markets in turmoil just now! Hold your nerve. These type of investments should be for approx 5 yrs anyway.  A friend of mine said he had a strategy of investing in this type of fund for approx 5 yrs hoping to make 50% profit after taxes and fees. If the fund realizes this type of profit within the 5 yrs then he sells early and takes his profit. He can then reinvest or put his money into deposit interest account . It sounds easy and great but I am sure it is difficult. Good luck with your Rabo funds.


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## keithers911 (26 Nov 2007)

I am about to invest in some funds with Rabo but if there is some information on other options from Clubman that do not have entry/exit fees, I'd appreciate more info or a linky if its been discussed before. Thanks


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## LDFerguson (26 Nov 2007)

mercedes1 said:


> Hi Clubman, interested in your comment re discount brokers and 1% management fees, can you tell me who these are or where I can get
> to invest with them please.


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## LDFerguson (26 Nov 2007)

AlastairSC said:


> Me too, Clubman. Spill de beans, please......


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## LDFerguson (26 Nov 2007)

keithers911 said:


> I am about to invest in some funds with Rabo but if there is some information on other options from Clubman that do not have entry/exit fees, I'd appreciate more info or a linky if its been discussed before. Thanks


 
In reply to the above queries, I presume that ClubMan is referring to some of the offerings available in the Best Buys forum here.


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## keithers911 (26 Nov 2007)

LDFerguson said:


> In reply to the ........http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=37142.



Thanks LDFerguson. I couldn't seem to find that.


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## RSMike (4 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> Well in one month I have had 5% wiped off my investment already, granted the way the market went I possibly could not have chosen a worst time to invest in shares




Lest I put anyone off Rabo Funds, Just had a look and things have turned and improve, my initial loss which went to 6%, has now recovered to a 2.5%. loss, hope the rest of you are experiencing similar recovery..........


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