# Too old to be hired at 50 ?



## Dr.Debt (8 Jan 2013)

First of all, let me just say that Im not over 50 !!

Read an interesting article over the weekend about ageism in the American labour market. 

Apparently there are a huge number of disgruntled older workers who claim that it is nigh impossible to secure employment over 50. 

Do we have that issue in Ireland ? Would you employ someone over 50 ? Does it happen ? (be honest)


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## RichInSpirit (8 Jan 2013)

An over 50 female would be less likely to fall pregnant and so might be more desirable to hire than a younger lady.


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## Gervan (8 Jan 2013)

> Do we have that issue in Ireland ?



Dr. Debt, I can tell you are not over 50, by how surprised you are about this. 
I am over 50, and gave up trying to find employment after so many interviews which went well, I had all the qualifications and experience, was not asking for the moon in wages, but never even had a follow-up response.
I would say this is the general rule. You may find an older employer who would take on someone over 50, but for the most part, the only one who will provide work for the over 50 job-seeker is himself.


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## delgirl (8 Jan 2013)

To be honest, it does happen.

I suppose it depends on the industry, the skills required for the position and the physical nature of the position.

Some employers see older workers as overqualified and seeking high salaries, or they believe they're inflexible and technologically challenged. 

We, as a recruitment agency, frequently get requests from employers for candidates not over the age of 40, they specify male or female and will ask for a recent photograph or uniform sizes to ensure that the candidate is not overweight. 

It's against the law, of course, to advertise based on age or gender, but these sort of 'wishlists' are coming in on a daily basis and clients will not review candidates if they do not match this criteria.


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## Time (8 Jan 2013)

Even someone at around 40 is having difficulty even getting the most menial of jobs.

Coupled with the fact it does not pay now to get off benefits is it any wonder the country is wrecked.


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## wbbs (8 Jan 2013)

Totally agree with Gervan, in that category myself and have pretty much given up too.  Once I see an interview panel who don't remember the last recession I know I am on a loser!


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## Importer (8 Jan 2013)

Wow, thats very interesting / worrying

I wonder if there are any or many 50+ candidates who didnt have any problems finding suitable employment.


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## dereko1969 (8 Jan 2013)

My father got a great job with a very large Multi-National in his 50's after having worked at a variety of poorly paid jobs (including working for himself) for a few years after having been made redundant by another large Multi-National when they pulled out of Ireland.

He had good contacts from his previous employment which obviously helped but at that age, most people would have built up a number of contacts in the same industry I would have thought. Maybe it's easier the higher up you are?


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## losttheplot (8 Jan 2013)

I think Tesco and McDonalds are noticeable exceptions.


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## pansyflower (8 Jan 2013)

....also Dunnes.


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## wbbs (8 Jan 2013)

I often wish there was a B&Q near me, they employ older people and I quite fancy working there!


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## becky (8 Jan 2013)

My local supervalu has a wide range of ages groups and a lot of them are there years.


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## losttheplot (8 Jan 2013)

I think it works very well in B&Q, people seem to trust the opinion of men/women over 50 rather than a teenagers when it comes to DIY.


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## wbbs (8 Jan 2013)

Ahem, men!  Women can know stuff about DIY too you know!


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## mercman (8 Jan 2013)

Personally I could not think of a better time to employ / work with a person over 50 in Ireland. They have a raft of information and experience behind them, having lived through two major recessions (the 80s and now). 

Furthermore, if somebody with Finance behind them and was trying to pick up new business ideas, surely the best place to look for persons in this criteria would be in the over 50s age bracket.

There must be a heap of people out there looking to engage with others, to put new ideas into play. They are probably well heeled, well educated but might have lost their jobs and direction and have become unemployed due to the Financial crisis.

Maybe this is an opportunity post, where diligent bright over 50s might put their ideas together to form either a practice lap or to place a multitude of ideas together, to get something working again. 

I'm over 50 (just), and still have plenty of ideas and cop-on !! Lads and Ladies, let's do it. It's never too late.


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## Firefly (9 Jan 2013)

This is an interesting thread. As someone who works in IT I am particularly aware of this. However, I think that looking after your own personal brand is becoming ever more important. I've worked with contractors well into their 50 who were simply amazing at what they do and have no problem charging & getting top daily rates.


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## Gervan (9 Jan 2013)

> contractors well into their 50



This is what I was saying, about a certain age making one unattractive to an employer. As somebody self-employed, people see my age as a sign of experience.
Perhaps there is an expectation that over 40 one should be in a managerial position, if any good, even if this is managing one's own enterprise?


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## putsch (9 Jan 2013)

I got my last job to some extent because I was over 50 rather than in spite of it. It was a management job in financial services in a subsidiary where the rest of the team were young and inexperienced and they thought a bit of gravitas would help the balance - they were right. 

I think it also helped that I was able to convince them that despite my long experience and talent (!!!) I was looking (at this stage of my life) for a job not a career and thus wasn't going to be competition for the other managers - I was able to convince them of that because it was true!


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## wbbs (9 Jan 2013)

That can be a big issue, my last boss was not born when I started in the industry.  I had no problem with it but she sure did, the insecurity was something else!  I did not want her job and would not have taken a present of it but nonetheless she obviously felt threatened by my experience.  Thankfully it was only a temporary situation I was stuck in as it was very unpleasant while it lasted.


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## Purple (11 Jan 2013)

In my industry we’re desperate for skilled people so we’ll take anyone we can find but there is a perception that older people are less willing to up-skill and/or learn new ways of doing the same thing. People get into a comfort zone and like to stay in it. That’s why small kids embrace new technology more readily than older people. In a rapidly changing sector adaptability is critical. 
That said just because something is generally the case it doesn’t mean that everyone shouldn’t be judged on their own merits.


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## glynner (11 Jan 2013)

Very worrying  as i am 50 this year and looks like my job is going early 2013, things dont look good for me


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## Dr.Debt (11 Jan 2013)

Hey Glynner

To be honest I was pleasantly surprised by a lot of the reaction to this thread.

A lot of contributors seemed to think that there were still plenty of possibilities for the over 50s so Id be very hopeful.

Best of luck


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## Sue Ellen (11 Jan 2013)

Purple said:


> In my industry we’re desperate for skilled people so we’ll take anyone we can find but there is a perception that older people are less willing to up-skill and/or learn new ways of doing the same thing. People get into a comfort zone and like to stay in it. That’s why small kids embrace new technology more readily than older people. In a rapidly changing sector adaptability is critical.
> That said just because something is generally the case it doesn’t mean that everyone shouldn’t be judged on their own merits.



Maybe too late for people over 50 to start all over again but just wondering for any young person reading this thread what skills/trades are you referring to that are so scarce?

For anyone in Ireland what are their options to learn these trades and how long would it take them to do so?  Is Fas an option?

I think you had a post on this a very long time ago but I can't find it now.


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## Firefly (11 Jan 2013)

glynner said:


> Very worrying as i am 50 this year and looks like my job is going early 2013, things dont look good for me


 
Hi glynner,

Sorry to hear that. On the plus side, it looks like you have some bit of notice which is good. If I were in your situation I would make a list of all the skills you have and what you would be most interested in working as. I'd ignore job sites until I've done this. Some skills that you have that you might think are insignificant could very well be the ones an employer is looking for. For example if you can demonstrate that you are practical, friendly and calm in a crisis you'll easily beat competition from someone half your age for certain positions.

Another thing to bear in mind is that job descriptions from employers are essentially a wishlist, and sometimes  it is clear from the skills and experience that an employer is looking for that they will not find anybody at the salary on offer. I went for a position once where I had less than 50% of the technical skills that were listed as compulsory on the job description. I accepted the job offer and the first thing the co did was train me up, which worked out quite well for me.

Firefly.


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## Leo (11 Jan 2013)

Sue Ellen said:


> Maybe too late for people over 50 to start all over again but just wondering for any young person reading this thread what skills/trades are you referring to that are so scarce?


 
I work in IT, and there is a significant shortfall of skilled people in this area. We are bringing contractors over from the UK/the continent to fill positions. I know Purple is facing similar challenges in Engineering.


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## Firefly (11 Jan 2013)

Sue Ellen said:


> For anyone in Ireland what are their options to learn these trades and how long would it take them to do so? Is Fas an option?


 
Hi Sue Ellen,

Regarding IT (my own area) crossing over after 50 might seem extremely daunting with all the technologies, acronyms and the like. Lots people seem to think that project managers who worked in construction can easily make the change across and to be honest I can't vouch for this because I don't know anyone who has done this nor do I (ever want to!) work in project management/management.

Regarding someone over 50 who wants to cross into IT at a techincal role, I would offer the following advice:

Technologies and languages that are the furthest away from the end user are the best. What I mean by this is that technologies that supply what the customer actually sees e.g. a application front end screen or a web page are all built on languages that are 
(a) changing all the time (e.g. Java) and 
(b) are well covered in 3rd level where you'll be up against good, young graduates willing to work for low money. 

The action, IMO, is at the "back-end". This covers server administraion, database adminstration, networks, security etc.

The main problem though is that at the back-end you are responsible for the availability, performance and security of the firm's data & applications so generally 3-5 years experience, at a minimum is required. However, I've seen it done quicker and if I was over 50 and looking to do this in 2 years, here's what I would do:

I'd concentrate on becomming a server administrator. It's not my own field but there are generally plenty of positions in this field. I would aim to get a starting position in the Help-desk of a large company. I would do this by:
(1) Completing a course such as the ECDL
(2) Buy 2 home computers and figure out how to network them together, how to run a website from one of them and how to implement security - Google is your new best friend here
(3) Sign-up for the basic Microsoft exams.

The above will probably take 6 months, but what it will show an employer is that you have shown commitment up front in your own time and with your own money. 

Soon after you start in the Helpdesk, make yourself known to the manager responsible for managing the server admin team. Tell him/her that you want to be working for him/her within 2 years and ask him/her exactly what you need to know to achieve this and as well as doing it, meet the manager every few months and outline your progress. 2 years after working as a server admin you should be pretty good at what you are doing and still be under 55. At that stage the contract market becons where you can earn pretty decent money. All in all about 4 years. 

Someone being able to fix a computer/server will always have work 

Just my 2c.

Firefly.


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## 44brendan (11 Jan 2013)

I just can't understand the categorisation of people on the basis of age/sex/ethnicity etc. In my experience, people of various skill and ability are not all part of a single homogenous group. I fully agree with the perception that is out there in respect of various categories of people, but this is a very narrow minded approach that must be changed. We all know successful people in all walks of life, both old youg etc. Their success generally is due to their own individual abilities and aptitude and not their age or other irrelevant characteristic. Unfortunately too many employers are led my irrelevancies such as this in disregarding very capable people from job positions. 
Why don't we all start by becoming at little more open in our approach to people.


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## Purple (11 Jan 2013)

Leo said:


> I work in IT, and there is a significant shortfall of skilled people in this area. We are bringing contractors over from the UK/the continent to fill positions. I know Purple is facing similar challenges in Engineering.



That's the thread. Almost a year later and nothing has changed.


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## Sue Ellen (11 Jan 2013)

Thanks Leo, Firefly and Purple.

Plenty of good advice there


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## Leper (15 Jan 2013)

Let's stick with real reality here.  The market place is flooded with unemployed people.  The old reliables for jobs every year have dried up - Civil Service, Banks, ESB, Nursing, Telecom, An Post, etc.  Employers are wary of expanding their business - Who would blame them?  Emigration is the answer for many, but even this is drying up.  The real outlook is bleak for somebody in his/her 20's let alone the 50's


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## Leo (15 Jan 2013)

Leper said:


> Let's stick with real reality here. The market place is flooded with unemployed people.


 
Are you saying the skills shortages in IT/Engineering aren't real?


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## gearoid (15 Jan 2013)

*Career after 50*

Regarding IT, the shortages are real.
I know of some companies taking on engineers and others and cross-training them to IT.

I don't think it is feasible to move directly  from an Engineering/Construction PM role to IT PM and in 20 years in IT I've never met someone who has done this.

Also Server Admin could be hit by the cloud. Make sure to re-train for this eventuality. It is no longer just a case of looking after the box in the server room, and that means jobs in server admin might be vulnerable.

Also, if you don't already have an interest or aptitude, don't bother.

This is not age related. So a fifty something with an aptitude is better than a twenty year old without.


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## Leper (16 Jan 2013)

Great! Information Technology is the answer to Ireland's unemployment problems. That is something I never knew.


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## Bronte (16 Jan 2013)

Leo said:


> I work in IT, and there is a significant shortfall of skilled people in this area. We are bringing contractors over from the UK/the continent to fill positions. I know Purple is facing similar challenges in Engineering.


 
And why are Irish people not being trained in these areas if there are shortgages?


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## Firefly (16 Jan 2013)

gearoid said:


> Also Server Admin could be hit by the cloud. Make sure to re-train for this eventuality. It is no longer just a case of looking after the box in the server room, and that means jobs in server admin might be vulnerable.


 

That's a very good point..


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## STEINER (16 Jan 2013)

I am a fortysomething and I stopped putting my date of birth on my CV when I was in my thirties.  If I am moving job then my 10,15, 20 or 25 years of work experience will either get me an interview  or not.  The recruiters will have an idea of my age but my exact age is only for my HR file.


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## delgirl (16 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> And why are Irish people not being trained in these areas if there are shortgages?


Irish companies need to look at the same type of apprenticeship model they have in Switzerland, Austria and Germany - Christoph Mueller spoke about it recently in the Irish Independent and Aer Lingus now have apprenticeships for Pilots and Technicians.  Being German of course, he will have been brought up with the apprentice system in Germany.

In Switzerland it's usually a 3 year apprenticeship, 4 days on-the-job work training and 1 day college, which results in a Diploma in the chosen field and also a lot of hands-on experience.

Apprentices start from 15/16yrs or if they continue with their education and to Leaving Certificate equivalent level, they can start at 18 or 19 yrs. 

Irish employers are complaining that graduates are not 'ready-to-go' when they leave college or uni and don't have the specific skills they require, so maybe they need to look at training their future employees themselves in the exact skills they need to grow their businesses.

The UK Government are also looking at the Swiss system as a way of giving young people who leave school early a proper start in life.


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## Leo (16 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> And why are Irish people not being trained in these areas if there are shortgages?


 
IT was in vogue for a period running up to the .com crash, since then colleges are struggling to fill places and are resorting to tactics such as including game design elements to their courses to attract candidates. Even with that, demand is currently outstripping supply.


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## Firefly (16 Jan 2013)

Leo said:


> IT was in vogue for a period running up to the .com crash, since then colleges are struggling to fill places and are resorting to tactics such as including game design elements to their courses to attract candidates. Even with that, demand is currently outstripping supply.


 
I think that people (rightly or wrongly) see IT as a somewhat fickle area of work to enter as it's not as defined as say Accountancy, Law or Engineering and for that reason many don't want to take it up.


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## Leo (16 Jan 2013)

Firefly said:


> I think that people (rightly or wrongly) see IT as a somewhat fickle area of work to enter as it's not as defined as say Accountancy, Law or Engineering and for that reason many don't want to take it up.


 
That's true. And certainly in the boom prior to the .com burst, a lot of people changed career path to move to IT doing short transition courses. Many of those people found out IT wasn't for them and subsequently changed career path again since.


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## Purple (21 Jan 2013)

Leper said:


> Let's stick with real reality here.  The market place is flooded with unemployed people.  The old reliables for jobs every year have dried up - Civil Service, Banks, ESB, Nursing, Telecom, An Post, etc.  Employers are wary of expanding their business - Who would blame them?  Emigration is the answer for many, but even this is drying up.  The real outlook is bleak for somebody in his/her 20's let alone the 50's



The marketplace is flooded with people with low skills, no skills and the wrong skills.
We have marketing graduates and low level accountancy clerks and nurses and arts graduates and construction workers but not scientists or engineers or skilled IT people or the other skills that are required for the export sector.
We’ve taken on a number of people with construction trades qualifications with a view to retraining them but their attitude to quality is abysmal. It should hardly be surprising considering just how bad Irish building trades people are generally but when you see it up close it’s still shocking.


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## Harold01 (31 Oct 2015)

Is there a problem for people over 40, who have been laid off or taken a career break, getting back into the workforce?. If you think so - Why?


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## Leper (2 Nov 2015)

I don't know of any problems for people who have taken a Career Break and some years later decide to return to work. Usually, these people have saved on child minders, fuel costs etc.  They were with their children when needed most. It is usually women who take the Career Breaks.  Let's be honest, they find work easier than rearing children. So where are the problems?


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## Joey Howard (14 Feb 2016)

Hi all, my name is Joey, I'm not here to brag or anything like that, I'm just as worried about my future as you are. I'm 51 next birthday and only started in my profession 2 years ago. I'm a fitness instructor and loving it. Although the money is rubbish that is all I can expect here in Ireland. We have a disgraceful government. Don't tell me there is no work out there for over 50s . Try thinking outside the box, I'm not trying to be a martyr or anything like that, I went through a terrible depression and I'm lucky to get through it, but I did by going back to college and doing what I love most, keeping fit... Never in a million years did I think I would be doing this 10 years ago. Think positive ladies and gents...Think positive..


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## Leper (20 Feb 2016)

There's something about Joey Howard's post that does not sit well with me . . . I'm caught for words, for once!


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## Cervelo (20 Feb 2016)

Leper said:


> There's something about Joey Howard's post that does not sit well with me . . . I'm caught for words, for once!



I think fair paly to him, his story is very similar to my own and where I would disagree somewhat with his opinion on the government the rest of his post can only be read in a positive light.


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## Leo (22 Feb 2016)

Do the government have some specific policy targeted at keeping the salaries for fitness instructors low?


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## Purple (22 Feb 2016)

Leo said:


> Do the government have some specific policy targeted at keeping the salaries for fitness instructors low?


Yes, in that all of the problems we face are the fault of the government.
If this rain keeps up I'm definitely not voting for them!


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## Leper (22 Feb 2016)

Purple said:


> Yes, in that all of the problems we face are the fault of the government.
> If this rain keeps up I'm definitely not voting for them!



Rain . . . What Rain?


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## Purple (22 Feb 2016)

Leper said:


> Rain . . . What Rain?


I've seen some Raindays but there's no point in being a Complainer about it


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