# Car crash - who's at fault?



## 10to1 (20 Aug 2006)

Was travelling on country road and came to a blind bend to find a car stopped - brake lights on. I tried to avoid running in to the car but clipped the rear panel with my wing.Thankfully no one was hurt as I had braked to a near stop but had to pull out at last minute to avoid the car.It turned out that the car driver of the car I hit had stopped because "something didn't feel right with the car" = She claimed I was at fault for hitting her and I responded that she had stopped her car on a blind bend without hazards on.Her rear wheel was punctured below the pont of impact and the wheel rim was badly dented. I feel that she had been driving on a flat and had damaged the wheel rim on a pothole or kerb afterwards and then began to lose the rear end on the bend.She wants her wheel replaced which I'm positive is not a result of the impact and there is no other damage to her car. Mine has a damaged maybe beyond repair wing and a broken sidelight.I feel that while there is an onus on me being able to stop in any situation to avoid obstacles in front of me, there is also a case of contributory negligence on her part for stopping on a dangerous bend,I rung the Gardai who told be they wouldn't be coming out as they were too busy with a fwstival in a village nearby. We exchanged details. I haven't informed my insurance company yet but need to very soon. She is to contact me after seeing her mechanic.Any thoughts?


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## big bird (21 Aug 2006)

tI would think you were at fault, blind bend means exactly that, you can not see around the bend so you should have been at a crawl. Country roads = cows, sheep, farmers, and the people who live in the area. I dont want to give a lecture but I have to bring four very young children to school every morning and i dont know how they are not lifted off their feet by the cars going by. It is not a motorway . Sorry but maybe someone may .prove me wrong.


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## extopia (21 Aug 2006)

The driver who rear ends another car is always at fault. You'll have to accept this and pay the price. Luckily no one was killed or badly injured.


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## ACA (21 Aug 2006)

Sorry for your trouble 10to1, as stated by OP unfortunately you are liable. You don't say who you're insured with but, a lot of companies allow you to reimburse them once TP is settled. If the TP's damage is in question, tell your ins. co. that you believe her wheel was already damaged before you clipped her. They shouldn't just pay out - there should be a full investigation into the accident and a decent assessor should be able to tell whether you are responsible for the wheel as well.


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## extopia (21 Aug 2006)

If I were you I'd settle with her quickly, paying for the wheel, and hope a mysterious case of whiplash doesn't develop.


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## ACA (21 Aug 2006)

originally posted by *extopia*


> If I were you I'd settle with her quickly, paying for the wheel, and hope a mysterious case of whiplash doesn't develop.


 
I know where you're coming from extopia but unfortunately there's nothing to stop this woman taking his cash, leading 10to1 to believe everything is fine and dandy and then slap in a personal injury claim! Either way, I'm 99% certain that you are obliged to inform your insurance company if you are involved in an accident - even if there is no claim. (Its in very small print in most policy booklets!)


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## Eurofan (21 Aug 2006)

ACA said:


> Either way, I'm 99% certain that you are obliged to inform your insurance company if you are involved in an accident - even if there is no claim. (Its in very small print in most policy booklets!)



No, no you're not. In fact it's a sure fire way to get royaly screwed by them when your renewal is due.

For the ops specific case i'd be inclined to fight it and seek 50/50 liability. While in 95% of cases where you rear-end someone the liability would be on you i feel from your description there is a definate case here.

As she claims she stopped "because something didn't feel right with the car " she, in my opinion broke the rules of the road by since when parking you must ensure that "it does not interfere with normal traffic flow"; "it does not inconvenience, obstruct or endanger other traffic flow".

Tell her to get stuffed (politely of course)


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## extopia (21 Aug 2006)

Telling her to get stuffed, even politely, is probably a recipe for a court case, possibly even a compo case.

The OP said that the car he hit had brake lights on, which implies that it was in fact slowing down, not yet stopped. Perhaps the driver meant to pull over further before she was hit? 

But this is irrelevant anyway: AFAIK rear ending someone means the liability is on you in 100% of cases (not 95%).

If all she wants is a new wheel you're getting off lightly, I feel.


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## ACA (21 Aug 2006)

1 
Loss of or damage to the insured vehicle

You must let us know immediately about any incident involving
loss or damage to the vehicle. You must not pay or agree to pay
any expenses to repair any damage without getting our authority
beforehand. ​ 
The above is taken from QDI policy booklet.​ 
Under no circumstances should your NCB be affected unless you process a claim thru your insurance company. Thats why there are insurance ombudsmen. You pay insurance in case you have an accident. You have, why not let them sort her out and save you the grief!!​ 
​


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## z107 (21 Aug 2006)

Was there a solid white line running down the middle of the road? - if so, she mightn't have been allowed to park where she did.


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## Ravima (21 Aug 2006)

in a real and fair world, the car you hit should bear some responsibility, but unfortunately we live i na workd where yo uare at fault. There is no other answer to your query - you are at fault.


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## 10to1 (22 Aug 2006)

Thankyou everyone for your contributions. I don't recall for sure if there was a continuous white line on the road and should have taken pics (had camera in the boot) but I forgot about it. The location is now 100 miles away. I haven't heard from the other party and while I have full bonus protection and 3rd party fire and theft I'm reluctant to inform them if there is not going to be a claim as the bonus protection might not prevent them loading my policy at the next renewal if there might be a future claim. My wife agrees with me that the other party's car was stopped with brake lights on - so I have a witness there. I'm inclined to wait and see what happens in the next few weeks as the accident happened last Sat week.


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## Eurofan (22 Aug 2006)

10to1 said:


> I'm reluctant to inform them if there is not going to be a claim as the bonus protection might not prevent them loading my policy at the next renewal if there might be a future claim.



Do *not* inform them if there is no claim. I know personally of two people who've had their policys loaded because of this, one of whom settled it himself anyway with no claim and the other of whom was not even liable (again no claim). Both instances required getting the ombudsman involved before they withdrew the loading.

I'd also be inclined not just to let this drift. You need to be pro-active about this. Despite whats said above there can be contributory negligence in the case of rear-ending someone. To give you an example i know via a mechanic friend where one of his clients rear-ended someone who switched lanes very dramatically and without indicating on approach to a roundabout (they were attempting to suddenly take the first exit). It was a very clear rear-end shunt but in this case he had taken photographs and had sufficient witnesses to attach liability to the driver he had hit. That case worked out 75%/25% where he basically got a contribution towards the damage on his car. It's not always black and white.


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## GJPC (22 Aug 2006)

My wife tipped and i mean tipped an old bugger amount two years at a set p of traffic lights. there was no damaged she wanted 200 euro and she'd leave it at that - i was weary and called the cops - details were taken and insurance companies contacted. 1.5 yrs later wife received post from her insurance company syaing that the claim had been settled - she was awarded 30k - for what?? I rang the insurance company and they said ah sure we the system is wrong but she had doctors letters....talk about being ripped off - sorry for sitting on your thread!


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## GJPC (22 Aug 2006)

GJPC said:


> wife received post from her insurance company syaing that the claim had been settled - she was awarded 30k - for what??


 
SHE being the old bugger - an auld one of about 70


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## 10to1 (22 Aug 2006)

When you say "proactive" Eurofan. What should you think I should do now?


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## funlovin (22 Aug 2006)

you are in the wrong ,but she may have contributed to the accident,a judge may award say for example 4000 euro damages to her for her car repairs but hold her 25% liable, leaving a bill of 3000 euro .if theres a claim for injuries add another zero i think ,cut your losses and pay her garage. you should be travelling at a safe enough speed for the conditions you are driving in,thank your lucky stars it wasnt a child on a bike or in a pram.i suspect if you exchanged details she may be already in touch with your insurance company without your knowledge.i think on the grand scheme of things you should take it on the chin and learn from it.


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## zag (22 Aug 2006)

And the gas thing is that the Insurance Federation (I think that's what they are called) run all these ads on TV telling us to report insurance fraud . . . yet you hear (as above) of people who are able to make large claims based on a small accident and the insurance company happily pays out and hits your no claims bonus without the opportunity to challenge.

z


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## liteweight (22 Aug 2006)

Surely someone has to give a better reason for stopping on a blind bend, other than, 'something didn't feel right with the car'??


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## 10to1 (22 Aug 2006)

I'm not saying that I'm not to blame, I just feel not totally so and that she must have been driving on a flat as I couldn't have damaged her wheel rim and as the rest of her car is fine as far as I could see then I think we should call it quits. I repair mine and she her wheel. But I do agree with some of the contributors who said to pay for her wheel. She was to call and hasn't as of yet. If she does and asks a reasonable amount for the wheel then I'll pay and hopefully there won't be a personal injury claim to follow.


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## anna123 (24 Aug 2006)

Im a motor claims handler - your best bet is to contact your insurance company - tell them for records only. IT WILL NOT EFFECT YOUR POLICY.
You are at fault, settle her claim asap. You are only giving her more time to go to the doctor/sol... 

You could try 50/50 and end up in a court but by that stage costs will only go up and it you will pay out alot more - the best you could hope for is 20/80.. 

hope everything works out for you


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## RS2K (26 Aug 2006)

Irrespective of the reason for the crash you are always 100% wrong if you tail end somebody.

What the other driver did sounds odd, but the fact is you hit her car and that is your fault.

You should also inform your insurer, and I agree it will not affect your NCB as long as you settle the claim personally.


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## Eurofan (26 Aug 2006)

RS2K said:


> Irrespective of the reason for the crash you are always 100% wrong if you tail end somebody.



Not always, read the story i posted above. I still believe this person has contributory negligence in this matter but am now inclined to agree with contacting your insurance sooner rather than later.


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## extopia (26 Aug 2006)

The woman stopped in an appropriate place - but sounds like she had good reason to do so. The tailender was probably speeding if he couldn't stop in time.


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## MsPBL (27 Aug 2006)

Dear 10to1,
Its not nice to her, but if you hit into the back of someone, no matter which way you look at it, legally, you were in the wrong.
It is awful ahat has happend to you. I had a similar experience with car insurance. In a nut shell, I had a tip with a car. Just turning at traffic lights, very, very minor. My light broken, no damage not even a scratch on other car. There was a passenger! You know whats coming!! I never reported it to my insurance company as nothing was being paid out,we decided to go 50/50 on damages (suited other driver!!) Cost me 300 euro to fix. Dad mechanic so cost me nothing really.
6 MONTHS LATER, I get a letter in the post stating I was being sued by the passenger for the usual whiplash. Went to court, (this was before the new assessment board.) He got 20k. I lost 5 years no claims bonus and my insurance went up by 1000 euro for 'failure to disclose an accident'. My advice is this.
1. Report to Insurance firm, in detail asap.
2. Write your own personal account. Get a diary and long every single detail into it, ie date and time and who you spoke with in any matter concearning the tip. Other driver, garage, gardai etc. Take photopy of everything, cheques paid for repairs and when they clearded etc.
3. Give a report to Gardai and make sure and say they were called but could not attend.

I know this all sounds a bit extreme and perhaps causing a bit of unnecessary worry BUT people will do anything. Prepare for the unexpected. I wish I had!

Hope it helps and sorry if it sounds OTT.

MsPBL


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## 10to1 (4 Sep 2006)

Contacted the other party and she has told me she is not pursuing the matter. The wheel was easily put back in shape and she is happy to leave it at that. Thanks to all for comments and helpful advice.


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## bond-007 (4 Sep 2006)

I would get something in writing to that effect.


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## Darth Maul (5 Sep 2006)

In my experience who ever rear ends someone else is always at fault, I rear ended this car at the merrion gates when the lights were green heading for ballsbridge and was told by my insurance company thayt there was no point in arguing as once you hit someone from tha back its always your fault even though in my case the lights were green..driver in front thought they went amber but that was the filter light for turning right at the merrion gates, if the damage is minor just settle it between you and the TP, in my case we both agreed to keep the insurance companies out of it but the cost was too high and i had no choice but to pay thru them.


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