# Should people have to do an IQ test before being allowed to vote



## liaconn (23 Mar 2011)

Totally undemocratic, but for crying out loud. Everyone in Tipperary knew Lowry was corrupt but he topped the poll. For years and years loyal constituents wouldn't hear a word against Haughey and kept inflicting him on the nation election after election. Likewise, Bertie, the Healy Raes, the unspeakable Flynns. Some people are just not fit to vote.


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## Latrade (23 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> Totally undemocratic, but for crying out loud. Everyone in Tipperary knew Lowry was corrupt but he topped the poll. For years and years loyal constituents wouldn't hear a word against Haughey and kept inflicting him on the nation election after election. Likewise, Bertie, the Healy Raes, the unspeakable Flynns. Some people are just not fit to vote.



Agree to an extent, but (assuming I would pass any such IQ test) it's not as if there's a lot of competition for the votes. Take those you've mentioned, who else was running in that constituency? Were they actually good? With vote management, it's likely that opposition parties knew they were safe, so didn't exactly stick their brightest and best up against those candidates or party strongholds.


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## liaconn (23 Mar 2011)

Yes, but if people voted more intelligently parties would make sure to put up good and bright candidates. The reason they get away with gombeens, crooks and mediocre non entities is because people vote for them.


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## Howitzer (23 Mar 2011)

I think it would be desperately naive to think that the 14,104 votes ML received were from those with the lowest IQ in Tipp North. 

For the most part many voted for him on local issues. Things like the Tipperary Institute. These aren't the actions of people with a low IQ. Quite the opposite in many cases. 

These are however the actions of self interest. However being selfish certainly isn't an attribute solely confined to the voters of TN. I'd suspect if we excluded voters on that basis the quota would struggle to get into 3 figures in most constituencies.


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## liaconn (23 Mar 2011)

Okay, maybe a test to guage ability to see the 'big picture' as opposed to the pothole in front of your gate. There is just something incredibly narrow minded about the way many Irish people vote and it's destroying this country. The sight of people in Tipp North yesterday doggedly defending Lowry was sickening.


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## RonanC (23 Mar 2011)

Country politics has always been a case of, you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours. They only see local issues, they never see the bigger picture and sometimes ignore what is happening in the real world as long as they are looked after and from what we are to believe, Lowry has looked after his constituants very well over the years and is even still trying to land a major construction deal at present with Mr. Quirke and his 'Good Time Emporiums' . He will go down as a god in the area if he pulls off that deal.


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## Purple (23 Mar 2011)

There is no connection between intellect and ethics.


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## MrMan (23 Mar 2011)

RonanC said:


> Country politics has always been a case of, you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours. They only see local issues, they never see the bigger picture and sometimes ignore what is happening in the real world as long as they are looked after and from what we are to believe, Lowry has looked after his constituants very well over the years and is even still trying to land a major construction deal at present with Mr. Quirke and his 'Good Time Emporiums' . He will go down as a god in the area if he pulls off that deal.



you might think it is a country trait, but it is also possible to look at the other side of the coin and the view that many country people will look at how services are distributed around the country and how the 'country' will always play second fiddle to the capital. With that mindset it seems reasonable that people will look at whatever opportunity arises to help their neck of the woods and in doing so help their families friends and community to prosper at best and continue to get by as usual.
 It's not an Irish trait or even a 'country' trait because negotiations and deals are a constant in all politics.


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## liaconn (23 Mar 2011)

Oh I know Purple. That's why this is in shooting the breeze and not letting off steam. I would just love, today, to build a wall around Tipp North and say 'you chose him, you bloody keep him'.


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## liaconn (23 Mar 2011)

MrMan said:


> you might think it is a country trait, but it is also possible to look at the other side of the coin and the view that many country people will look at how services are distributed around the country and how the 'country' will always play second fiddle to the capital. With that mindset it seems reasonable that people will look at whatever opportunity arises to help their neck of the woods and in doing so help their families friends and community to prosper at best and continue to get by as usual.
> It's not an Irish trait or even a 'country' trait because negotiations and deals are a constant in all politics.


 
But if you vote in a way that destroys the economy, you are also going to suffer. It's short sighted, unethical and downright greedy.


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## RonanC (23 Mar 2011)

MrMan said:


> you might think it is a country trait, but it is also possible to look at the other side of the coin and the view that many country people will look at how services are distributed around the country and how the 'country' will always play second fiddle to the capital. With that mindset it seems reasonable that people will look at whatever opportunity arises to help their neck of the woods and in doing so help their families friends and community to prosper at best and continue to get by as usual.
> It's not an Irish trait or even a 'country' trait because negotiations and deals are a constant in all politics.


 
Oh I agree that the people will want the best they can get for their area, but I firmly believe politicians, once elected to Dail Eireann should be removed fully from local issues. They should only deal with IRELAND INC and not fixing a pot pole down some country lane.


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## Purple (23 Mar 2011)

Then we need an end to multi seat constituencies and possibly a list system.
Proper local government would also help.


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## Howitzer (23 Mar 2011)

Purple said:


> Then we need an end to multi seat constituencies and possibly a list system.
> Proper local government would also help.


I've been thinking for some time that democracy itself is fundamentally unsound.


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## truthseeker (23 Mar 2011)

Howitzer said:


> I've been thinking for some time that democracy itself is fundamentally unsound.


 
I agree. You end up with the results of a popularity contest, not the best people to do the job.


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## Shawady (23 Mar 2011)

RonanC said:


> They only see local issues, they never see the bigger picture and sometimes ignore what is happening in the real world as long as they are looked after and from what we are to believe, Lowry has looked after his constituants very well over the years and is even still trying to land a major construction deal at present with Mr. Quirke and his 'Good Time Emporiums' .


 
It's not only at a local level when ethics takes a back seat.
FF/Greens have been happy to have Lowry voting with them to keep them in power and I'm sure if FG had got around 80 seats they would have done a deal with Lowry to support them.
You have to assume that most politicians are not stupid so it would appear they are happy to work with a questionable character for their own interests.


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## Purple (23 Mar 2011)

Howitzer said:


> I've been thinking for some time that democracy itself is fundamentally unsound.



The only thing worse than democracy is everything else that's been tried.


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## Howitzer (23 Mar 2011)

Purple said:


> The only thing worse than democracy is everything else that's been tried.



[broken link removed]


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## Protocol (23 Mar 2011)

What about having fewer, larger constituencies?

30 * 5 seats = 150 TDs.

Merging Tipp North and South would reduce the chance of people like Lowry being elected??


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## horusd (23 Mar 2011)

How about a simple ethics test? Which of these is true?

1.Does  2+2 = 4 or 

2. 2+2 = anything you want it to be.


I think this test would rule out virtually every accountant,banker and a fair clump of the TD's and Senators.

Ironic how most of the movers and shakers are products of a Christian education and now we have little faith in either them or the Church. Morality, truth and politics are very much strangers in our culture.


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## micmclo (23 Mar 2011)

Protocol said:


> Merging Tipp North and South would reduce the chance of people like Lowry being elected??



They've been separate since the 19th century when the Brits were in power
But it's sort of happening already, part of south Offaly was merged in.



RonanC said:


> Country politics has always been a case of, you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours. They only see local issues, they never see the bigger picture and sometimes ignore what is happening in the real world as long as they are looked after



Learned from the Dubs. Tony Gregory held the government to ransom for his inner city voters and got hailed a hero??
Anyone outside Dublin who tries this gets called a gombeen 



RonanC said:


> and is even still trying to land a major construction deal at present with Mr. Quirke and his 'Good Time Emporiums' . He will go down as a god in the area if he pulls off that deal.



Well Tipperary North county council is dominated by Fine Gael and Labour (like most councils these days) and they are in favour of it too.
Though suicide for any council to turn down any jobs



Latrade said:


> Agree to an extent, but (assuming I would pass any such IQ test) it's not as if there's a lot of competition for the votes. Take those you've mentioned, who else was running in that constituency? Were they actually good? With vote management, it's likely that opposition parties knew they were safe, so didn't exactly stick their brightest and best up against those candidates or party strongholds.



This was no Wicklow, only eight candidates and four were no hopers

Maire Hoctor from FF is a good worker and a former junior minister but the toxic FF badge cost her. She was one the better TD's in FF
Noel Coonan from FG is Mr. Invisible. He only started canvassing once he discovered he was under pressure. Such arrogance from the FG local cumanns, he does nothing and assumed his seat was safe so why even try. And now he is reelected and still invisible. 
Alan Kelly MEP didn't resign and try for the Dail, no he kept his backup plan. If he failed he'd be on the first flight back to Brussels. Not a lot of commitment to voters there

And some wonder why Lowry topped the polls?


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## MrMan (23 Mar 2011)

liaconn said:


> But if you vote in a way that destroys the economy, you are also going to suffer. It's short sighted, unethical and downright greedy.


 
You want people to vote to your liking so then means you are greedy then? People vote for what they want and that in most cases is for a better future for their own.
It's not pretty but when it comes down to it would you vote for the guy that was going to ensure top quality educational facilities for your child in your area or would you vote for the guy that was going to tackle illiteracy nationwide because that is the broader issue?


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## liaconn (24 Mar 2011)

But that's the thing. I don't vote for 'guys' I vote for representatives of the party who's policies I agree with. Voting for individuals on the basis of local issues is short sighted and the opportunity shouldn't be afforded to voters. As RonanC has said, elected TDs should be immediately removed from local politics. They are not Co Councillors, they are meant to be running the country.


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## liaconn (25 Mar 2011)

Doesn't say much for the general population.


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## DrMoriarty (25 Mar 2011)

Listening to a few of Lowry's supporters on _Morning Ireland_ was a sobering reminder.


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## boris (25 Mar 2011)

Out of fairness the total valid poll in the North Tipp constituency was 48,273. Lowry got 14,104 which is 29% of those who voted. 

I am not a supporter nor do I support what he done but surely blaming all the people of North Tipperary as a whole is a bit unfair. 

I do think that the real kernel of the problem there is that Lowry is better than the rest of the parties in Tipp in representing them. From what I have heard from friends is that he stays in contact with local groups etc. from the beginning to the end whereas the rest only turn up for the photo's!!!


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