# Warning on mobile phone voice mail when abroad.



## darag (27 Feb 2007)

I always knew that receiving and making calls from a mobile while roaming abroad could be expensive.  However I was unpleasantly surprised recently because I had assumed that if I didn't answer a call or had my phone switched off, it couldn't cost me any money.

Unfortunately this is not true if you have voicemail on your phone (and who doesn't?).  If someone rings you when you're abroad, it will actually cost you DOUBLE if you don't answer or if your phone is switched off.  This is because if the call is diverted (to your voicemail), you get billed for receiving the call (as if you'd actually answered the call for the duration of the message in whatever country you find yourself) and you also get billed as if you'd called back to Ireland (again for the duration for the message).

This is particularly irritating, for example, if someone hangs up immediately when they realise that they're not going to get through without leaving a message.  There is often a minimum "set up charge" for the second leg of the double charge.  During my last holiday abroad, I ended up paying on average about a euro each for about 8 or 10 such calls where people rang and hung up without leaving a message.

Worse, I even got charged a euro when someone left me a message after I had returned to Ireland because I didn't turn on my phone for about an hour or so after I got off the plane.

Initially I was incredulous as I'd never noticed this before but apparently "that's just the way it is".  Even Comreg accepts it.

Apparently the only thing you can do is to disable your voicemail facility before you go or alternatively set up an unconditional divert.  If you do the latter, it'll mean that nobody can ring you directly.


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## dam099 (28 Feb 2007)

darag said:


> Unfortunately this is not true if you have voicemail on your phone (and who doesn't?). If someone rings you when you're abroad, it will actually cost you DOUBLE if you don't answer or if your phone is switched off. This is because if the call is diverted (to your voicemail), you get billed for receiving the call (as if you'd actually answered the call for the duration of the message in whatever country you find yourself) and you also get billed as if you'd called back to Ireland (again for the duration for the message).


 
Are you sure about the switched off bit? I can see that it may happen when you have it on but if you switch the phone off how is the phone company going to know you have not returned to Ireland with your phone still switched off in which case they have no justification at all for charging you?


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## grizzcol (28 Feb 2007)

surely this only happens when u've turned on ur phone at some stage while u've been abroad and therefore registered that you're roaming..if ur phone is off from the time you leave the country to when u get back u shouldn't be charged


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## soy (28 Feb 2007)

grizzcol said:


> surely this only happens when u've turned on ur phone at some stage while u've been abroad and therefore registered that you're roaming..if ur phone is off from the time you leave the country to when u get back u shouldn't be charged



Correct - your phone will default to whatever network you were on before you last switched it off. 
It is probably best to switch off your voicemail and take your calls directly if you want to remain contactable.


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## darag (28 Feb 2007)

Yes soy is right.  You must have switched it on at some stage when you're abroad.



> Are you sure about the switched off bit? I can see that it may happen when you have it on but if you switch the phone off how is the phone company going to know you have not returned to Ireland with your phone still switched off in which case they have no justification at all for charging you?


They don't know!  The system just assumes you're still in the last place you had the phone switched on.  Like I said, I got charged for a voice message I received AFTER I got back home.  Like yourself, I thought that there could be no justification for this charging but after researching it, it's a common problem for GSM.

I was taking to an comms engineer friend about it and they said that in theory the GSM can support a signal of some sort which prevent this from happening but that interoperability between various manufacturers' exchange systems means it never works.


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## angrylad (28 Feb 2007)

The above statement is incorrect;

Scenarios

*Phone Off on holiday*
If someone leaves you a voicemail and you dial into your voicemail on your return from abroad you are charged for the call to your voivemail at local rates ie if you are charged to access your voicemail by your operator

*Phone On on holiday - voicemail checked*
You are charged roaming rates at this point as the host operator that you are roaming on is being used to host your call to your mailbox

*Phone On on holiday - voicemail not checked*
No charge for this service. You will be charged regular rates when messages are checked when you return home.

*Phone Off all the time*
Save a fortune!!!

If you are being charged as you say you have by your operator for unaccessed voicemail while you are away then you entitled to compensation. Write to them and ask them for an explanation in writing of the costs and where these costs are outlined.

The voicemail service is held in the originating country ie Ireland, if you do not answer your phone while abroad the recording is held in Ireland and not on the hosts network so how could they explain a cost!!


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## dam099 (28 Feb 2007)

darag said:


> Yes soy is right. You must have switched it on at some stage when you're abroad.
> 
> 
> They don't know! The system just assumes you're still in the last place you had the phone switched on. Like I said, I got charged for a voice message I received AFTER I got back home. Like yourself, I thought that there could be no justification for this charging but after researching it, it's a common problem for GSM.


 
If its a system problem then I would ask the mobile company to point out where in their terms and conditions they allow for charging in this manner, unless it is explicitly pointed out in their terms I would think they are on dodgy ground charging for a call received after you get back home because of an issue with their systems. Comreg are not the most consumer friendly regulator perhaps [broken link removed] might be worth a try.


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## darag (28 Feb 2007)

angrylad said:
			
		

> Phone On on holiday - voicemail not checked
> No charge for this service. You will be charged regular rates when messages are checked when you return home.


You are quite wrong here I'm afraid.  I've researched the matter:  I've talked  to a telecoms engineer I know, I've found a section advising how to avoid it on the Comreg website (yes they've received complaints about this), I've confirmed it with the mobile operator and I've found compaints from many other users (mostly from the UK and the US) about this by searching the web and other messageboards. While roaming, if your phone diverts (to voice mail), you will get charged as I explained above.  Whether you check your voicemail while abroad has nothing to do with it.


			
				angrylad said:
			
		

> The voicemail service is held in the originating country ie Ireland, if you do not answer your phone while abroad the recording is held in Ireland and not on the hosts network so how could they explain a cost!!


Apparently because the call is routed through to the country where you are before being routed back to your messagebox at home.  Sounds stupid but that's what I gathered from trying to understand it from some wikipedia articles on GSM.



			
				dam099 said:
			
		

> If its a system problem then I would ask the mobile company to point out where in their terms and conditions they allow for charging in this manner, unless it is explicitly pointed out in their terms I would think they are on dodgy ground charging for a call received after you get back home because of an issue with their systems.


Yes I will check their terms and conditions with a magnifying glass but I suspect it will be in there somewhere.


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## bacchus (28 Feb 2007)

darag said:


> If someone rings you when you're abroad, it will actually cost you DOUBLE if you don't answer or if your phone is switched off


 
I am missing something.. how does the network know where the phone is if it is switched off???


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## darag (28 Feb 2007)

As explained above, it assumes you still are where you were when you last switched your phone on.  For this to happen you must have switched your phone on AT SOME STAGE while abroad.  Fair enough if you bring it and never switch it on but why would you bother bringing it in the first place if you're never going to switch it on?


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## KalEl (28 Feb 2007)

This is unbelievable...a friend of mine rang me by mistake last week when I was away. My phone was off so he ended up leaving a very long message inadvertently. You're saying that has cost me a fortune?


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## darag (28 Feb 2007)

> This is unbelievable


That's what I initially thought too.  Check your itemised bill when you get it.  With my operator, I noticed it because there was a "received" call in the roaming section of the bill with the exact time and duration as a call in the other roaming section back to my voice mail number (my number with an extra 5 after the 08x bit).


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## KalEl (28 Feb 2007)

darag said:


> That's what I initially thought too. Check your itemised bill when you get it. With my operator, I noticed it because there was a "received" call in the roaming section of the bill with the exact time and duration as a call in the other roaming section back to my voice mail number (my number with an extra 5 after the 08x bit).


 
So someone could malicously call your voicemail ad infinitum while your away and run your phone-bill up to astronomical levels? I don't doubt what your saying...for unbelievable read outrageous


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## angrylad (1 Mar 2007)

My exterme apologies darag this has been one hell of an eye opener - the only operator website that I can find the info on is O2's don't know if that's because they are (I think) one of the only operators that charge for voicemail.

There should be a revolt!!

I'm off to ring some mates that are away and leave them messages


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## DrMoriarty (1 Mar 2007)

Last time I went abroad, they wouldn't even let me bring [broken link removed] on the plane!


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## darag (2 Mar 2007)

No bother angrylad - my operator is Meteor by the way, so O2 aren't the only ones.


> I'm off to ring some mates that are away and leave them messages


Must admit the thought crossed my mind too!!


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## gipimann (2 Mar 2007)

Must say I'm a bit confused about this - I have always assumed that diverting to voicemail before I leave the country does not cost me anything (provided I don't access voicemail while away). I've been with vodafone and o2 and haven't seen any charges of this type while the phone is off (did get caught once in NI when I left phone on, it rang and then diverted and I was charged).
I found the following on the O2 website, terms & conditions.....


When roaming, any calls which go to your voicemail will be charged as a call back to Ireland. You can eliminate these charges by amending your phone settings to 'divert all calls to voicemail' before you travel. Please note that this means all calls to you will be diverted to your voicemail and your mobile phone will not ring but you will not be charged for these calls. You will receive a free text message notifying you of new voicemails as normal. When you dial into your voicemail to retrieve your messages, this call will be charged as a standard call back to Ireland.
I always set my phone to divert (who wants calls on holiday anyway!), and change my voicemail greeting to tell people I'm out of the country and if it's urgent to send me a text.   At least that way, if a voice message is left, it might be important enough to justify the cost of phoning home to hear it!


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## darag (2 Mar 2007)

> Must say I'm a bit confused about this


Why are you confused?  You seem to understand exactly how it works!  As I said in the first message, setting up an unconditional divert is one way to avoid being hit by this "double" charge.


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## gipimann (3 Mar 2007)

Sorry Darag, I had confused myself because I missed the last line of your original post.....once I read that, I realised we were talking about the same solution! It was the earlier portion that confused me (must have been Friday...!)


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## lukegriffen (3 Mar 2007)

Hope i'm not adding to the confusion, this may have been stated earlier...

- if you have your phone on when abroad (eg Hungary),  with diverts on for unanswered call & when busy,  if your phone rings and you don't answer it OR you cancel the call, you will get charged a roaming call for the portion of the call from Hungary to your voicemail on the Irish network.

- as explained previously, if your phone is turned off or Diverts active for All Voice calls, then you won't get charged for the portion of a call from your handset to voicemail.


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