# Profiteering from the pandemic



## tomdublin (25 Dec 2021)

One of the ugliest aspecs of the pandemic is the ruthlessness with which some companies seek to profit from it.  It started in the early days with a well-known pharmacy chain selling packs of 50 disposable masks for 150 Euro and convenience stores offering travel-sized bottles of hand sanitizer for 9.99.  An antigen test costs upwards of 50 Euro which is around twice what's charged in most other EU countries where these prices are often capped.  At some stage the government promised to do likewise and introduce price controls but nothing has come of it.


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## odyssey06 (26 Dec 2021)

The government threw a few shapes on antigen tests then said lidl are selling them for 3e so we dont need to do anything!
Except it was pot luck if you found one with stock.

You need to shop around and get them where you see them cheap rather than when desperate and end up paying 7-8  quid.


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## tomdublin (26 Dec 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> The government threw a few shapes on antigen tests then said lidl are selling them for 3e so we dont need to do anything!
> Except it was pot luck if you found one with stock.
> 
> You need to shop around and get them where you see them cheap rather than when desperate and end up paying 7-8  quid.


I meant the tests for travel clearance which can't be DIY.  49 Euro is the cheapest I have seen here with many places charging around 70.  In Germany you can get them done for 14 Euro (non-subsidised).  Nothing in the cost structure of those two countries justifies the same service costing 3-6 times more in Ireland.


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## Baby boomer (28 Dec 2021)

tomdublin said:


> Nothing in the cost structure of those two countries justifies the same service costing 3-6 times more in Ireland.


Absolutely true, and true for many other services in Ireland also.


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## peemac (1 Jan 2022)

In fairness the manufacturers and wholesalers were the primary instigators of the high prices.

Retailers simply had no choice.

A 5L tub of sanitiser went from €14 to €65 overnight in one major wholesalers - and they stated that the amount they added for their costs was less than €3.

Infrared thermometers went from under $10 to $45 from Chinese suppliers.

The basic masks went from about 5c to almost $1. I managed to get a few thousand from a long term supplier in China for 45c each (and supplied them free to customers) 

But because the retailer is at the front view they get the blame.


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## tomdublin (2 Jan 2022)

peemac said:


> The basic masks went from about 5c to almost $1


This means that members of that well-known chain of "community pharmacies" which sold 50 masks for 150 Euro still made around 2.20 Euro profit per mask.


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## odyssey06 (2 Jan 2022)

Regardless of pandemic the price of basic generic meds here v NI and other EU countries shows someone is profiteering in the ROI supply chain or retail.


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## tomdublin (2 Jan 2022)

Even non-prescription meds such as aspirin and paracetamol cost multiple times here compared to NI.I tried to do some research on why that is but it's opaque.  Those products seem to be largely excluded from EU single market rules that permit parallel imports.  Behind-the-scenes lobbying seems to have closed-off legitimate alternative import channels.  Various governments in contempt of consumer protection issues and lack of media interest and understanding have aggravated the situation.


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## peemac (2 Jan 2022)

tomdublin said:


> This means that members of that well-known chain of "community pharmacies" which sold 50 masks for 150 Euro still made around 2.20 Euro profit per mask.


My pricing is what factories in China were quoting for bulk packs of 1,000. 
Add in freight, packaging, distribution costs and vat and you get close to that crazy price


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## Franc1 (2 Jan 2022)

The cheapest antigen test that I found in Ireland (needed to fly to Italy) was 35€
In Italy an antigen test (needed to fly back to Ireland) is 15€ everywhere.
The exception seems to be at the airport which costs 20€


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## peemac (2 Jan 2022)

odyssey06 said:


> Regardless of pandemic the price of basic generic meds here v NI and other EU countries shows someone is profiteering in the ROI supply chain or retail.


It's to do with the registration/authorisation regime. It's costly and restrictive for a small country.

The authorisation holder pays an annual fee and distributors also pay a fee. Each size and each strength needs it's own sub fee to be paid.

And it's all paid by the consumer.


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## tomdublin (3 Jan 2022)

peemac said:


> It's to do with the registration/authorisation regime. It's costly and restrictive for a small country.
> 
> The authorisation holder pays an annual fee and distributors also pay a fee. Each size and each strength needs it's own sub fee to be paid.
> 
> And it's all paid by the consumer.


Does this apply even to over-the-counter drugs like aspirin?  The price gap between Ireland and many other countries (including GB & much of EU) is incredible.


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## odyssey06 (3 Jan 2022)

peemac said:


> It's to do with the registration/authorisation regime. It's costly and restrictive for a small country.
> 
> The authorisation holder pays an annual fee and distributors also pay a fee. Each size and each strength needs it's own sub fee to be paid.
> 
> And it's all paid by the consumer.


Latvia has a population half that of Ireland and their generic meds are much cheaper than ours.


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## peemac (6 Jan 2022)

roker said:


> It Does this apply even to over-the-counter drugs like aspirin?  The price gap between Ireland and many other countries (including GB & much of EU) is incredible.


I believe it applies to every medicine and every different packaging. Quite ridiculous imo. 


odyssey06 said:


> Latvia has a population half that of Ireland and their generic meds are much cheaper than ours.


But they use common sense and have a joint system with Lithuania and Estonia and possibly don't insist on authorisation for every size / branding.


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## Purple (6 Jan 2022)

tomdublin said:


> Does this apply even to over-the-counter drugs like aspirin?  The price gap between Ireland and many other countries (including GB & much of EU) is incredible.


I was in Edinburgh's central train station about 8 years ago and bought a packet of 12 paracetamol for 18 pence. The same packet at the time was around €2 here. I think they cost around €3 now. That's a 50% increase during aa period of close to net zero inflation.
GP's charge vastly more here than in the UK or most of the Mainland (and get paid vastly more). Pharmacists no longer make quite the eye-watering amounts of money they once did but they are still extremely well paid for doing what a good AI could do faster and better. There's a reason the CAO points were so high and it wasn't because 'Pharmacist' was on the list of jobs kids aspired to along with pilot, doctor, fireman and astronaut.

Why would anyone think the medical and retail drugs industry would behave any differently during a pandemic?


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## tomdublin (6 Jan 2022)

I find it strange that the Irish public puts up with being continuously fleeced in this way.


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## Purple (6 Jan 2022)

tomdublin said:


> I find it strange that the Irish public puts up with being continuously fleeced in this way.


When I look at the waste in the Health Service and the general provision of Public Services the cost of a packet of paracetamol doesn't amount to anything.


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## peemac (6 Jan 2022)

The funny thing is if you have a prescription, it's far cheaper.
I had a prescription for 120 solpadol (extra strength paracetamol and codeine - wisdom tooth issue only getting sorted next week), cost was €12 odd.

A pack of 24 nurofen+ costs about the same as that entire 120 tab prescription.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2022)

peemac said:


> The funny thing is if you have a prescription, it's far cheaper.
> I had a prescription for 120 solpadol (extra strength paracetamol and codeine - wisdom tooth issue only getting sorted next week), cost was €12 odd.
> 
> A pack of 24 nurofen+ costs about the same as that entire 120 tab prescription.



They're different drugs so that's an apples and oranges comparison.


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## Purple (10 Jan 2022)

peemac said:


> The funny thing is if you have a prescription, it's far cheaper.
> I had a prescription for 120 solpadol (extra strength paracetamol and codeine - wisdom tooth issue only getting sorted next week), cost was €12 odd.
> 
> A pack of 24 nurofen+ costs about the same as that entire 120 tab prescription.


As @ClubMan points out they are different drugs. Nurofen is a brand name for ibuprofen. The real question is why didn't your pharmacist offer a cheaper generic version of those.


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## ClubMan (10 Jan 2022)

In my experience some pharmacists will unilaterally offer generics but others won't. So it's best to explicitly ask if you want them. Also, some combined drugs are cheaper separately. I have had this experience with a combo statin that is much more expensive than getting the two drugs as separate tablets (which the prescription allows). But, again, I had to request this dispensing method explicitly.


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## Bluefin (14 Jan 2022)

I was in my local supervalue yesterday and it was nice to see that they where selling there antigen kit's at cost price.. Good community spirit


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## Purple (14 Jan 2022)

Bluefin said:


> I was in my local supervalue yesterday and it was nice to see that they where selling there antigen kit's at cost price.. Good community spirit


They used to sell beer at below cost and people went mad, just shows you can't keep everyone happy.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2022)

Purple said:


> They used to sell beer at below cost and people went mad, just shows you can't keep everyone happy.


Cost price is different to below cost.
And I'm not sure that you can equate medical testing kits with a recreational toxin.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Cost price is different to below cost.


I don't think people would complain about antigen tests being sold below cost and St. Peter told us to drink a little wine for our stomach's sake and he was a mate of god's young fella so we should be doing what he said.


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## Firefly (14 Jan 2022)

Purple said:


> They used to sell beer at below cost and people went mad


I now have this image of people up & down the country going maad with their Antigen tests!


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## Bluefin (14 Jan 2022)

Tony might lockdown retail selling antigen tests


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