# Grounds for Search Warrant: guards arrived at my house with a SWarrant for drugs



## Dom

Last night the guards arrived at my house with a search warrant for drugs. 

There was nine of them plus a sniffer dog. I asked on what grounds did they have the warrant: to which they replied reliable information - they didn't act on rumours! I said but you are acting on a rumour as you will find nothing here, which was the case.  I am going to a solicitor this morning to see where I stand.

Can anyone lead me in the right direction?

Thanks for your help


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## Stifster

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

The power to seek and grant search warrants is contained in the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977.



> Search warrants. *26.*—(1) If a Justice of the District Court or a Peace Commissioner is satisfied by information on oath of a member of the Garda Síochána that there is reasonable ground for suspecting that—
> [GA]( _a_ ) a person is in possession in contravention of this Act on any premises of a controlled drug, a forged prescription or a duly issued prescription which has been wrongfully altered and that such drug or prescription is on a particular premises, or
> [GA]( _b_ ) a document directly or indirectly relating to, or connected with, a transaction or dealing which was, or an intended transaction or dealing which would if carried out be, an offence under this Act, or in the case of a transaction or dealing carried out or intended to be carried out in a place outside the State, an offence against a provision of a corresponding law within the meaning of section 20 of this Act and in force in that place, is in the possession of a person on any premises,
> [GA]such Justice or Commissioner may issue a search warrant mentioned in subsection (2) of this section.
> [GA](2) A search warrant issued under this section shall be expressed and operate to authorise a named member of the Garda Síochána, accompanied by such other members of the Garda Síochána as may be necessary, at any time or times within one month of the date of issue of the warrant, to enter if need be by force the premises named in the warrant, to search the premises and any persons found therein, to examine any substance or article found therein, to inspect any book, record or other document found therein and, if there is reasonable ground for suspecting that an offence is being or has been committed under this Act in relation to a substance or article found on the premises or that a document so found is a document mentioned in subsection (1) (_b_) of this section or is a record or other document which the member has cause to believe to be a document which may be required as evidence in proceedings for an offence under this Act, to seize and detain the substance, article or document, as the case may be.


 
Go to one of the criminal practices. Where are you living/working?


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## frash

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Is there anyone else living in your house that might have had drugs at some stage?


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

The [broken link removed] and IndyMedia have information about your rights in relation to criminal justice and how to deal with situations such as the one that you mention.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Any use?

*CitizensInformation - Powers of Search 

*


> Generally, search warrants are issued by District Court Judges or Peace Commissioners when a Garda makes a statement on oath that he/she knows or has reasonable cause for believing or suspecting that a crime has been or is being committed.


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## Stifster

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Petermack said:


> Who exactly has the authority to issue a search warrant ?. I know from speaking to some friends of mine who are Gardai that at times thay get a peace commissioner to sign the search warrant but surely a peace commissioner signing off on a search warrant would not hold too much legal standing if the validity of the search warrant was to be challenged in the courts?


 
Unless the peace commissioner wasn't a peace commissioner at all. It is really only a rubberstamping exercise. What matters is what the garda believed.


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## Caveat

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Stifster said:


> Unless the peace commissioner wasn't a peace commissioner at all. It is really only a rubberstamping exercise. What matters is what the garda believed.


 
Slightly OT, but isn't there another "warrant" of sorts (can't remember the Latin term) that can allow the gardaí to search a premises with even less reason/cause than a 'normal' warrant? (Might only apply to counterfeiting/intellectual property or something though)


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## Harlequin

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Caveat - you're probably thinking of an Anton Piller order - it's used to prevent someone destroying incriminating evidence but there has to be strong evidence, not less reason/cause.


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I went to solicitor yesterday and he is going to do some research for me.  I also went to the Garda Station and I met the Sergeant who had applied for the warrant.  I was told that they don't act on rumours but on reliable information.  I maintained that all they had was rumour as the search yielded nothing.  I offered to do a drug test. The Sergeant said they would investigate their source of information but obviously wouldn't tell me who it was. Is there anyways that I can get this information as this would be a good starting point to squash these rumours.
My mother and son were in the house and neither would be into drugs.  The warrant was for me.


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## mathepac

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Stifster said:


> What matters is what the garda believed.



In reality, its what s/he *SAYS* they believed.


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

you can go to the district court and obtain a copy of the information which is in writing that the sergt made. this will show you what the judge based his decision to issue the warrant. peace commissioners do not sign search warrants anymore.


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Thanks for that. My solicitor has suggested making a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman on the grounds that they were acting on "malicious rumours" and not "reliable information" as they have suggested.  Would this be an advisable approach?


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Dom said:


> Would this be an advisable approach?


Do you not trust your solicitor's advice or something?


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## Moral Ethos

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Get a copy of the warrant from the court. 

Make a complaint to GSOC by all means. But you may not get the result you are after.


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## Daffyduck

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



taponavillus said:


> you can go to the district court and obtain a copy of the information which is in writing that the sergt made. this will show you what the judge based his decision to issue the warrant. peace commissioners do not sign search warrants anymore.




they do my friend.........they are used moreso during the hours where judges are not available.


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## Askar

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

AFAIK what constitutes reasonable grounds for the issue of a search warrant is often stated to be "information from a confidential source which has previously proven reliable." Certainly that was the practice in the 90s - so you would not glean much info from the warrant or the grounding application - Of course it is open to the Judge/peace commissioner to ask questions. If I was in your position and the Guards repeated that they only act on reliable info I think I would be quite upset. I would want some inquiry as to why this 'reliable information' was not reliable in this instance and some form of apology.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Askar said:


> If I was in your position and the Guards repeated that they only act on reliable info I think I would be quite upset. I would want some inquiry as to why this 'reliable information' was not reliable in this instance and some form of apology.


In which case a GSOC complaint is the way to go surely?


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## stir crazy

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Daffyduck said:


> they do my friend.........they are used moreso during the hours where judges are not available.



I thought only a judge would have the training and education and experience to be trusted with such a action.  I thought it was supposed to be easy for any member of the public (including solicitors) to become a peace commissioner  or am I totally wrong ?


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

From CitizensInformation:


> A Peace Commissioner is an honorary appointment made in Ireland by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
> 
> ...
> 
> There are no qualifying examinations or educational standards required to be appointed as a Peace Commissioner but you are required to be a person of good character. Anyone who has been charged with or convicted of a serious offence will not be considered for appointment. Most Peace Commissioners are well established in their local community. Those being considered for appointment as a Peace Commissioner should be aware that the Minister for Justice reserves the right to verify with the Gardai that you have never been charged or convicted of a serious offence.
> 
> ...
> 
> You may apply to be appointed as a Peace Commissioner on your own behalf, or you may be nominated by another person or you can nominate someone you feel would be suitable for this position. The application for appointment must be in writing and should include some information about the nominee and the reasons why you or they may be suitable for appointment.


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## Moral Ethos

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

You are quite correct. 

They have no legal training and they are often nothing more than a rubber stamp for the Gardaí.


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I have went to the Garda Station and again they have said they got the warrent because they had reliable information. I suggested that they have a relook at this information as surely this is now only rumour?.  The Sergeant in charge also went on to say that "everyone" was saying that I was a dealer which is completely unfounded. After this I think i will go and make that complaint.


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## Moral Ethos

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I certainly would in your situation. One word of advice, don't make the complaint at the station, contact GSOC direct. 

Did you get a look at the warrant at all?


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I wasn't at the house when they called but my son rang me to let me know.  I then spoke to one of the guards on the phone.  I made my way back to the house then - took about 25 minutes.  I went into the house and they were searching away. I went into the kitchen and spoke to one of the guards and then asked where was the warrent. He said the sergeant had it. The sergeant came in afterwards and showed it to me by placing it in front of nmy face but not letting me hold it. I could see the reason for the warrent was cos they believed there was drugs in "my home" even though it is my mother's house. She was actually in bed when they called and was asleep.  They woke her up when they entered her room but never spoke to her or searched her room - they told me later that they didn't think there was drugs in her room.  however they seached my son's room thoroughly.
In respose I didn't really take in much of the warrent details - not used to that.


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## ClubMan

Hang on - which is it?


Dom said:


> Last night the guards arrived at my house ...





Dom said:


> I could see the reason for the warrent was cos they believed there was drugs in "my home" even though it is my mother's house.



Also...


Dom said:


> I also went to the Garda Station and I met the Sergeant who had applied for the warrant.  I was told that they don't act on rumours but on reliable information.  I maintained that all they had was rumour as the search yielded nothing.  I offered to do a drug test. The Sergeant said they would investigate their source of information but obviously wouldn't tell me who it was.





Dom said:


> I have went to the Garda Station and again they have said they got the warrent because they had reliable information.


Why did you visit a second time? Were you expecting a different answer? And was the Sargeant on duty during the search not the same on who applied for the warrant and the one who you met in the station?

And...


Dom said:


> Last night the guards arrived at my house with a search warrant for drugs. There was nine of them plus a sniiffer dog.





Dom said:


> She was actually in bed when they called and was asleep.  They woke her up when they entered her room ...


The nine _Gardai _and one sniffer dog and general commotion one might expect from these didn't wake her up before this? Seems odd...

No offence but some of this just does not add up to me...


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## Daffyduck

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

The judges don't write the warrants, they are standard forms and just have name, address, and suspected illegal drug/weapon etc. All the gards go is get them to sign them. 

If there was a judge available at the time the warrant was signed but it was signed by a peace commissioner i.e. it was signed at 3pm by a peace commissioner and not a judge there is supposed to be room for your solicitor to argue about that, what exactly I don't really know but ask your solicitor. 

Also on the warrant (on the bottom) there is a
                                                              "signed_________
                                                               Judge of the district court
                                                               assigned to the said district.

                                                            Peace commissioner                                                                 assigned to Dublin &                                                           surrounding counties"

If its a peace commissioner warrant and they didn't scribble out the Judge part above, its not valid. 

There is also something about the back being "endorsed" its to have a stamp on it of some sort........

Not much use to ya but its good to get at them if your innocent!


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Clubman
By my house I meant the house that I currently live in. My mother owns the house.

I was replying to Askar, On the night they called they said that they were acting on reliable info and the sergeant repaeated thios when I called to the station and yes that was the same sergeant -  what is your reason for asking?

What seems odd? As I stated earlier I was not at the house when they called so I can't quantify the amount of commotion they made.
All nine didn't come into the house, some remained outside. My mother is an alcoholic and was in a drink induced slumber,two guards entered her room, she awoke with one flashing a torch in her face and they then left the room without any conversation being struck up.
Which bit doesn't add up to you clubman. I'm sorry if i'm not as articulate as yourself.

I wrote into this forum in order to get some ideas,help in regards to what I should do.  Its not that I don't trust my solicitor ( as you have suggested) but the more info you can gather the better in my humble opinion, and this should enable/assist me in making the correct decision in how to proceed.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Dom said:


> What seems odd?
> 
> ...
> 
> Which bit doesn't add up to you clubman.


The bits that I highlighted above obviously.


> I wrote into this forum in order to get some ideas,help in regards to what I should do.  Its not that I don't trust my solicitor ( as you have suggested) but the more info you can gather the better in my humble opinion, and this should enable/assist me in making the correct decision in how to proceed.


Fair enough but it seems patently obvious to me that the correct way to proceed if you have a concern is to follow the advice of your solicitor and others here and make a complaint to the _GSOC_.


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

a peace commissioner cannot sign a searchwarrant any more.case law


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

and just so you know they can use the warrant as many times as they want within 28days


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## Moral Ethos

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

That is very poor advice.

They must enforce the warrant within 7 days of issue and they can't keep coming back when it suits them. See DPP v Curtain J.

Peace commisioners do indeed still issue search warrants, my neighbour is one and she regularly issues them. Mostly for drugs too.


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## BMW

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



taponavillus said:


> a peace commissioner cannot sign a searchwarrant any more.case law


 
Yes they can, A peace commissioner can issue a search warrant if they are requested to do so by the relevent bodies.  The commissioner is required to question the validity of the information received, by the body requesting the warrant.  IE Guards.. If the guards simply say.. they have reason to believe that there may be illegal activity.. This is not enough to issue a warrant. The commissioner must see relevent evidence or information backed with co-obberating evidence to issue warrants.

Forgive spelling mistakes!!!


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

once again a peace commissioner cannot sign a search warrant anymore. case stated on same.


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## bond-007

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Care to provide us with a link to the High Court judgement?


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## csirl

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I think we're missing some information here.

Is your question related to the legality of the Gardai searching your home without you being there?

OR

That neither you nor any of your close associates/relatives have ever been involved in drugs and so it would not be possible for the Gardai to get the necessary information for a warrant to be issued to search a premises you frequent?

OR 

The legality of the particular search warrant that was used to search your home?


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Csirl, I would be going in line with your second statement and how the gardai got "reliable information" when i never dealt in drugs and then they acted on this information. Now people in the locality who don't know me really well think i'm a drug dealer as a consequence.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

So did you make a complaint to/via the _GSOC_ yet?


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Club Man, I haven't made any complaint yet for the very reason that as someone referred to on another thread it might not be a pleasent experience and that the Gardai can sometimes be a law onto themselves. I don't necessarily want to go "upsetting" them. So therefore I am keeping my options open at present and am not doing to rush into making a decision - I have six months in which to make a complaint. My solicitor is checking out the what/if scenarios.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

I doubt that the _GS _can/will hassle somebody just because the go to the _GSOC_. At least not without serious repercussions. What sort of "what/if" scenarios is your solicitor checking out?!


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## ney001

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Dom said:


> Club Man, I haven't made any complaint yet for the very reason that as someone referred to on another thread it might not be a pleasent experience and that the Gardai can sometimes be a law onto themselves. I don't necessarily want to go "upsetting" them. So therefore I am keeping my options open at present and am not doing to rush into making a decision - I have six months in which to make a complaint. My solicitor is checking out the what/if scenarios.



Im sorry but if you have absolutely no connection to criminality of any kind and if there is nobody in your house who has any connection to criminals or criminality then you have nothing to fear from the gardaí whatsoever, why do you not want to go 'upsetting them'?.  There will be no repercussions on you if you have nothing to hide!


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

ney001, sometimes that is easier said than done. No I do not have a criminal record and i'm not involved with any criminal gangs or their like nor is anyone belong to me. But i'm of the opinion that the gardai stick together and that you daren't cross them as they will be waiting in the long grass for you - they have been known to do it before - why was the GSOC set up in the first place?


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## ney001

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Okay, let me put it this way.  If the gardaí had entered my home with a warrant, carried out a search while my mother was upstairs frightened in bed and my son was in the house and as a result of all of this all of my neighbours now thought I was a drug dealer I would not hesitate to make a complaint.  Particularly given the fact that the search was utterly unfounded.  

While I understand what you are saying about making a complaint - what is it you think can happen to you that is worse then what has already happened??  According to you they have made a big mistake, do you really think that if you complain about the mistake they will then compound it by harassing you or something??    What exactly are you afraid of?

Also, you say that you are of the opinion that the gardaí stick together and will be 'waiting in the long grass for you' if you dare to cross them - what are you basing this opinion on?


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## Sylvester3

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Maybe Dom is new to the country. I'm from up North and in my, completely law-abiding, experience its best not to cross the peelers. When I came here, my new colleagues talked many times to each other and myself about corruption and gardai colleagues covering each other's backs and how things haven't changed. 

Let sleeping dogs lie goes the expression and many would rather forget an incident than raise the possibility of creating new grief for themselves. I can understand that.


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## ney001

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



Sylvester3 said:


> Maybe Dom is new to the country. I'm from up North and in my, completely law-abiding, experience its best not to cross the peelers. When I came here, my new colleagues here have talked many times to each other and myself about corruption and gardai colleagues covering each other's backs and how things haven't changed.
> 
> Let sleeping dogs lie goes the expression and many would rather forget an incident than raise the possibility of creating new grief for themselves. I can understand that.



If the Op complaints to GSOC then it's out of his hands - it's not like he will have to question the gardaí himself.  This is not a case of a garda incorrectly doing you for speeding.  The gardaí entered his home with a warrant and the OP has the right to know where the information to build up a case against him came from!, he is not naming particular gardaí but rather complaining about the manner in which and the information behind the issuing of a warrant.  I cannot think of one valid reason why somebody would not take this further and rumors and innuendo about collusion between gardaí just wouldn't cut it for me!


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## Caveat

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



ney001 said:


> I cannot think of one valid reason why somebody would not take this further and rumors and innuendo about collusion between gardaí just wouldn't cut it for me!


 
If I were the OP I wouldn't be completely confident.  It's more than just rumour and innuendo - there are plenty of documented cases of corruption within the gardaí.

Having experienced collusion, prevarication and cover ups myself during the course of a relatively innocent complaint via a supposedly neutral process,  (not gardaí) I too can understand the OP's reticence.


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## ney001

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

What could happen that could be worse then 9 gardaí and sniffer dog searching your home leaving all of your neighbours thinking that you are a drug dealer when you are completely innocent 


The fact is, all of this could come back on the OP, he may still be listed as a 'suspect' somewhere.  If they got enough info to search house then they damn sure have a file somewhere on him.  What happens if OP applies for a new job or something and even though he has never been convicted, his address shows up as having been searched for drugs?.  The only way to deal with this is to follow it through to it's conclusion not listen to horror stories about complaining about gardaí.  Not complaining is what gives the corrupt gardaí their power!


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## Caveat

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



ney001 said:


> The fact is, all of this could come back on the OP, he may still be listed as a 'suspect' somewhere. If they got enough info to search house then they damn sure have a file somewhere on him. What happens if OP applies for a new job or something and even though he has never been convicted, his address shows up as having been searched for drugs?


 
I agree that this should be addressed but the OP's solicitor I'm sure can sort this aspect out easily enough without going through the whole complaint procedure - which, apart from anything else by the way, could take months or even years.


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

peace commissioners cannot sign warrants any more and if you read a section 26 warrant it says from memory at time or times within 1month. but what would i know i was a detective for only 30 years and only worked in a drugs unit.


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## NiallA

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

the house belonging to friends of mine was searched by gardai for drugs shortly after they moved in to it.

Gardai found nothing, but it turns out the previous tenants were dealing in drugs.,

could it be a case of a previous resident in the house being the cause of the search.


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## Dom

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Thnks for all your replies.  As you may have gathered i'm not the best with the English prose. In answer I am Irish and have been all my life, it is the family home and my father was in the guards all his life.

"The gardaí entered his home with a warrant and the OP has the right to know where the information to build up a case against him came from!, he is not naming particular gardaí but rather complaining about the manner in which and the information behind the issuing of a warrant."

What ney001 said above is what i am trying to get. Will I get a result from the GSOC in this regard.


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## bond-007

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



taponavillus said:


> peace commissioners cannot sign warrants any more and if you read a section 26 warrant it says from memory at time or times within 1month. but what would i know i was a detective for only 30 years and only worked in a drugs unit.


Why would you go back and search a house more than once in the month?


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

because the warrant states that you can and maybe there were no drugs there the first time.


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## bond-007

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

The crooks must be really stupid to have drugs there the second time. Surely you *show* them the warrant and *allow them to read it* when you enter?


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## taponavillus

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

of course you do but they dont read it that well. and if they are dealing in drugs they have to be stupid


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## bond-007

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Indeed.


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## Complainer

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*



taponavillus said:


> if they are dealing in drugs they have to be stupid


This may well be true of the bit-players doing the front-line dealing service, but the serious players are anything but stupid.


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## bond-007

*Re: Grounds for Search Warrant*

Of course they don't use the product they are selling.


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## Askar

Personally, I think that the ability to re-enter is more appropriate for white collar investigations - where you need to be able to sift through realms of data, which may be on computers, and you also need to talk to and question people on the premises to get an idea of the storage systems etc. as well as meaning of various documents.

I have never come across a situation where this power was actually used i.e. guards re-entered premises at a later day during period of warrants validity.


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