# Job of enumerator Census 2011



## BOXtheFOX (29 Mar 2011)

Can someone clarify what the job of the Census Enumerator is?  Is it simply leaving the form with the householder or is there something more required?  The reason why I ask is that I have received a leaflet in my letterbox with various lines highlighted in pink marker, "Please call or text me" and the word "Urgent" handwritten on the form. Can it not just be posted through the letterbox?


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## liaconn (29 Mar 2011)

Apparently not. I live in a block of 5 apartments and during the last census I was the only person answering my door when the enumerator called. As we're not meant to allow people in to the apartment block to knock on people's doors I offered to take the forms and give them to the other occupants or to let her into the lobby so she could put them in their post boxes. She told me she had to hand them personally to each resident.


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## gipimann (29 Mar 2011)

The enumerator called to me last week (not sure if she'd tried before) and as well as handing me the form, she recorded my name and asked how many males and females I expected to be in the house on census night.   She also offered me the choice of the form in Irish or English, and entered some reference numbers on the form before handing it to me.  I was asked if I needed any guidance on how to complete the form.

I was speaking to someone working as an enumerator, he mentioned that they have to make every effort to contact the resident before resorting to putting the form through the letterbox.


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## Berni (29 Mar 2011)

Leaving it in the letterbox is a last resort.
They need to check if you will be there on the census night, how many people normally live there, see what language you want the form in, deal with any questions, etc.

They will also want to try to get a contact name & number to make collecting the form easier.


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## Newbie! (29 Mar 2011)

gipimann said:


> The enumerator called to me last week (not sure if she'd tried before) and as well as handing me the form, she recorded my name and asked how many males and females I expected to be in the house on census night.   She also offered me the choice of the form in Irish or English, and entered some reference numbers on the form before handing it to me.  I was asked if I needed any guidance on how to complete the form.
> 
> I was speaking to someone working as an enumerator, he mentioned that they have to make every effort to contact the resident before resorting to putting the form through the letterbox.



Same here. Was also offered advice on when our house was built in the event that we didn't know.


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## dahamsta (29 Mar 2011)

I don't understand why they ask how many people normally reside there. If there's a valid reason for the question, it should be on the census form.


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## Berni (29 Mar 2011)

dahamsta said:


> I don't understand why they ask how many people normally reside there. If there's a valid reason for the question, it should be on the census form.


If there are more than 6, you would need an extra form


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## dahamsta (29 Mar 2011)

Ah, fair point!


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## greengrass64 (29 Mar 2011)

What happens if I bring over a group of students that night. I mean if I dont have enough room on the form. Or if say a family of 4 have 3 unexpected visitors? I am just wondering, I suppose there is some plan in place.


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## Grizzly (31 Mar 2011)

Can someone clarify the following. The Census Enumerator called today with the form. I said that I probably will not be here on the night of the Census but I was not sure. He insisted that I fill out a FORM E immediately there and then on the doorstep. When I asked was it possible for me to keep the Form E and post it in when I found out if I was going to be here or not, nearer the 10th of April. He said "No". *It must be* *filled out now*.  He said that he has had two or three of these already and they(my neighbours) didn't have a problem. In otherwords why was I having a problem.  I explained to him that I wasn't going to fill out a Form E now because as I had explained I was not sure if I was going to be at home on the night of the Census.

He then handed me the standard census form and ticked his records to indicate that he had given this to me. So on his records he has recorded that I will be at home on the night of the Census despite me saying that I might not be.

Must I fill out this Form E now, 10 days before Census night?


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## SlurrySlump (31 Mar 2011)

I noticed that the Census Form has no way to seal it like they way you could in previous Census. Why? All as some one has to do is open it and read it like a book.
It was a neighbour of mine who delivered my form. When I asked for an envelope I was told that he didn't have any envelopes that he was having problems. His wife was sick???? He was only supposed to be spending two hours a day doing this job.

All because I asked for an envelope?


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## Time (31 Mar 2011)

You are entitled to an envelope but He will still read the form regardless. 

Same applies to those that post them back, the form is returned through the network of regional and local supervisors to the individual enumerator so that he/she can do their totals. Thinking the enumerator won't see the contents is not true.


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## SlurrySlump (31 Mar 2011)

I cannot believe that bundles of paper are going to be delivered out to some enumerators house in suburbia from the CSO for recording purposes and then sent back to the CSO again. Every form has a reference code on it for a reason.


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## monagt (31 Mar 2011)

The Forms are not sent back according to CSO spokesperson on radio


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## Time (31 Mar 2011)

That is to keep the public placated. The reality is as I have stated above. 

I did the job back in 2002. I had several forms posted back to the CSO direct. My supervisor gave them back to me so I could do my totals and get credit for the form.


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## valery (31 Mar 2011)

Having worded on a number of Census, that is definitely not the procedure.

If the householder wants to keep his details confidential from the enumerator, he fills out the census form and posts it back to CSO, in an envelope supplied by the enumerator marked "H" on the back. - "H" as in hide.  
The completed census form is sent to the relevant supervisor and they put the basic details as to number of male and females in the household on a form H and give it to the enumerator.  The census form is not given to the enumerator, nor are any other details of the householder.


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## Time (31 Mar 2011)

Things were simpler back then.


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## Laramie (1 Apr 2011)

Grizzly said:


> . He insisted that I fill out a FORM E immediately there and then on the doorstep. When I asked was it possible for me to keep the Form E and post it in when I found out if I was going to be here or not, nearer the 10th of April. He said "No". *It must be* *filled out now*. .
> 
> Must I fill out this Form E now, 10 days before Census night?


 
What is a Form E?   Is this some sort of mini census and why must it be completed immediately?  What happens if you fill it in now and your plans change before Census night?


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## wbbs (1 Apr 2011)

I was disappointed to discover that because I will be on a 3 day break out of the country over the weekend of the census I don't count at all.  Sorry I even mentioned it to my census person, had to sign a different form and don't get to fill census at all.   This is a bit annoying as yes I know I will be away on the actual night but I am here for the rest of the year and hopefully many more years so I would have liked to have my circumstances counted.


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## Laramie (1 Apr 2011)

wbbs said:


> , had to sign a different form and don't get to fill census at all.


 
So it appears that there is a Census taking place before the official Census of the people who won't be in the country on the night of the 10th? 
What happens if you cancel your plans to be away, you have not been given the official form and failure to complete could lead to a fine.


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## merille (1 Apr 2011)

just asking, what happens if im not filling out this form? i will, but still ... also i didnt get an envelope so the person can read all my personal details (how much is my rent, when are my children born and where are they going to school, where i am working etc etc)


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## Odea (1 Apr 2011)

In the "olden days" there was a gummed flap that you could use to seal your booklet of answers. 
Reading that the completed forms that you post directly to the CSO are now returned to the Enumerator is a cause for concern. If the spokesperson that was on the radio answering questions about the Census is being economical with the truth about this is also a cause for concern. What other little details are not being disclosed?


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## dereko1969 (1 Apr 2011)

valery said:


> Having worded on a number of Census, that is definitely not the procedure.
> 
> If the householder wants to keep his details confidential from the enumerator, he fills out the census form and posts it back to CSO, in an envelope supplied by the enumerator marked "H" on the back. - "H" as in hide.
> The completed census form is sent to the relevant supervisor and they put the basic details as to number of male and females in the household on a form H and give it to the enumerator. The census form is not given to the enumerator, nor are any other details of the householder.


 


Odea said:


> In the "olden days" there was a gummed flap that you could use to seal your booklet of answers.
> Reading that the completed forms that you post directly to the CSO are now returned to the Enumerator is a cause for concern. If the spokesperson that was on the radio answering questions about the Census is being economical with the truth about this is also a cause for concern. What other little details are not being disclosed?


 
Did you read the first post?
I really can't understand the paranoia of people regarding the census. Most census enumerators have hundreds of forms to collect and I really can't see them being bothered reading through them all to find out trivial information. From reading over on Boards most of them are finding it difficult to get people at home and are having to make numerous visits to houses/apartments I'd say by the time they get the forms back they'll be sick of the sight of them.


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## wbbs (1 Apr 2011)

What happens if you cancel your plans to be away, you have not been given the official form and failure to complete could lead to a fine.[/QUOTE]

This is very true and based on the difficulty I am having with the travel company I may not get out of the country at all


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## Time (1 Apr 2011)

What happens is that the supervisor will contact the supervisor for the area indicated on form E and ask if you have been counted where you said you would be. If not, the census person will be back to make you complete a normal form.


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## wbbs (1 Apr 2011)

Sorry Time, but she told me I will not be counted at all, because I am due to be out of the country for the weekend.


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## Time (1 Apr 2011)

Ah, out of the country is different. I was thinking you would be in a different part of the country.


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## sam h (1 Apr 2011)

If your travel plans don't go ahead, you can contact census.ie & the enumerator will call back to you with a Household Form & will cancel your E Form

Grizzly - if I had been your enumerator, I would have gone on how likily you were likily to be there - so if morethan likily, I'd have given you a HH form and left you my number if your plans changed so  you could do an E form.

If you are out of the country, you are not counted (it is balanced with foreigners who are in the country having to complete a form)
If you are elsewhere in the country, you need to provide the address of where you will be so it can be ensured you were enuemerated at that location.

Re envelopes - if you just post the form back without making the correct arragements with the enuerator so they can follow H form proceedure (ie - Hidden), then it is not know that you want a confidential return so the form is forwarded to the enuerator.  Most people who just post it back do so because they are heading away.

If you request confidentiallity, you will be issued with a envelope mark "H" and the supervisor will pass a "H Form" to the enuerator with just the address and the number of males & females, so they can tally their figures.  The supervisor subsitutes the H form with the completed form when they recieve back the boxes at the end.  I only had 2 H forms and that was what happened.

Not sure about the olden days, but the last Census you definatly didn't have a sealled form 'cos the enuerator has to "flick" through the form to check 
 - it was filled in in blue or black pen (not pencil or red biro)
 - it hadn't been defaced
 - it had been signed
 - all the people ment to be at the house were accounted for (either under present or absent)
We didn't "read" the form just "flick" to check the relevant bits


As I said before though - we had about 450 forms to collect, I had zero desire to look and find out what age someone was or anything else (at that stage you are tired and just want it all over !!

This is a *tough* job, please be nice to your poor enuerator who is just doing a job.  They are signed up for just about 8 weeks and have a lot of processes to learn and alot of wlaking and knocking on doors to do.


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## thesimpsons (1 Apr 2011)

sam h   -     I didn't get an envelope when I got the form but I want one now so can I ask for an envelope when they come back to collect the form or if I see her in the neighbourhood? 

I know you say enumerators don't read the form, but I'm just not comfortable handing out what I believe are personal details to someone at the doorstep.


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## pudds (1 Apr 2011)

thesimpsons said:


> sam h   -     I didn't get an envelope when I got the form but I want one now so can I ask for an envelope when they come back to collect the form or if I see her in the neighbourhood?
> 
> I know you say enumerators don't read the form, but *I'm just not comfortable handing out what I believe are personal details to someone at the doorstep*.




+1 and *anything* could happen that form once it leaves our house. 

In this age surely they could have found some way of encrypting each house number & street with a simple ref number on the form instead of the real address, not rocket science I would think.


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## dubinamerica (2 Apr 2011)

Hi, I also feel as above and would like to keep the details on the form private. How do you go about getting the envelope?  I would prefer not to hand over v. personal information to someone that I don't know but is local. Even upon giving me the form, I felt she was asking for specifics regarding how many males & females would be in the house, (not how many people in total), which I felt compromised my own personal information.


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## Odea (2 Apr 2011)

I asked for an envelope to be told "I don't have one with me, I will have to go all the way home to get one" (Blackrock, Dublin). I remarked that this was strange that he didn't have any envelopes with him as I thought I was entitled to ask and could he not have some in the boot of his car, just in case. He said that he would drop one back to me, which he did about an hour later.  However.  This was just a brown envelope with a sticker addressed to the Census Office. There was no sign of any H or HH anywhere on the envelope?
Do you specifically have to ask for an envelope with a *H* or *HH* on it and why are you not offered a choice as in, " I might not be here when you call back after the census so give me an envelope so that I can post it back" or " I would like my details kept confident, so give me the relevant envelope".
I was not made aware about the *H* or *HH* system.


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## Time (2 Apr 2011)

Easy way round the problem, stick it in an envelope and send it to the CSO at the address on the form. Mark the top left corner of the envelope "FORM H"


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## Molli (2 Apr 2011)

I think the fact the census enumerators have to travel on their own and are not allowed bring anybody with them should not be so. In the interests of their safety surely there should be 2 together.


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## RoyRover (2 Apr 2011)

Hopefully the next census will be done away with, like they are planning in the UK. It's a very costly excercise, but a nice little earner for the form collectors. This is the sort of thing we should be getting the unemployed to do for their dole.


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## fizzelina (2 Apr 2011)

RoyRover said:


> . It's a very costly excercise, but a nice little earner for the form collectors. This is the sort of thing we should be getting the unemployed to do for their dole.


 
I heard on the radio that for the 10 weeks work the enumerators will get about €2k, that is hardly a nice earner, it's about the same as the weekly dole payment. And for the people who do it by earning money that week they won't qualify for their dole if they were claiming it so it is effectively not costing the state. So not sure why you think it's a nice little earner?


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## Time (2 Apr 2011)

It is the hardest 2 grand you will ever earn.


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## PaddyBloggit (2 Apr 2011)

I agree ... I have a friend who is one and the hardest part of the job is to get people to open the door. 

Multiple visits fail to yield results. The paperwork has increased since the last census.

As has the cost of fuel.

And .... every unoccupied house, though accounted for by the enumerator, means a deduction in the final payment.

A nice little earner it ain't.


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## pudds (2 Apr 2011)

With the recession and no hope of a future for at least the next ten years, the last thing *a lot* of people want to see is a census form.

Dont envy the enumerators job one bit.


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## Odea (3 Apr 2011)

Can someone clarify the procedures regarding Form E. I rang the CSO helpline and spoke with Claire who told me that the enumerator could leave a Form E with me for completion before, on or after Census night.
I spoke with the enumerator who told me that he was not allowed to leave the Form E with me.
Two officials, two different stories.


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## Time (3 Apr 2011)

Form E should be filled up by the enumerator in your presence.


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## Marion (3 Apr 2011)

I got a phone call during the week from somebody in the census office asking me if an enumerator had called and if they had gone through the form with me and if I were happy. 

Marion


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## Bgirl (3 Apr 2011)

What is a Cen1 form - saw it being referred to on another site?


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## steph1 (3 Apr 2011)

A CEN1 form is left by the enumerator when they have failed to make contact with the householder after a number of visits.


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## Odea (4 Apr 2011)

Time said:


> Form E should be filled up by the enumerator in your presence.


 
So the person answering the *helpline* was wrong then?

 Locall *1890 2011 11*:

Then again she did take down my name and phone number and promised to get the supervisor of my enumerator to contact me.  I'm still waiting.


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## SoylentGreen (6 Apr 2011)

I got an email this morning from the Marriott Hotels organisation saying that their emails had been compromised. Last week I got one from Tripadvisor, same thing. Moving Census forms around from CSO to supervisor to enumerator then back to supervisor before going back to CSO seems to me to be a pretty unsafe way of doing things.


_Dear Marriott Customer, _

_We were recently notified by Epsilon, a marketing vendor used by Marriott International, Inc. to manage customer emails, that an unauthorized third party gained access to a number of Epsilon's accounts including Marriott's email list._ 

_In all likelihood, this will not impact you. However, we recommend that you continue to be on the alert for spam emails requesting personal or sensitive information. Please understand and be assured that Marriott does not send emails requesting customers to verify personal information. _

_We take your privacy very seriously. Marriott has a long-standing commitment to protecting the privacy of the personal information that our guests entrust to us. We regret this has taken place and apologize _

Nothing it appears is safe nowadays_._


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## dereko1969 (6 Apr 2011)

SoylentGreen said:


> I got an email this morning from the Marriott Hotels organisation saying that their emails had been compromised. Last week I got one from Tripadvisor, same thing. Moving Census forms around from CSO to supervisor to enumerator then back to supervisor before going back to CSO seems to me to be a pretty unsafe way of doing things.
> 
> 
> _Dear Marriott Customer, _
> ...


 
Sorry but what has this got to do with the Census?


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## SoylentGreen (6 Apr 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Sorry but what has this got to do with the Census?


 
It's O.K. you don't have to be sorry.


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## Leo (6 Apr 2011)

SoylentGreen said:


> It's O.K. you don't have to be sorry.


 
It's a valid question. Your message is off-topic.
Leo


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## Bronco Lane (6 Apr 2011)

SoylentGreen said:


> Moving Census forms around from CSO to supervisor to enumerator then back to supervisor before going back to CSO seems to me to be a pretty unsafe way of doing things.
> 
> 
> Nothing it appears is safe nowadays_._


 
I thought that the post was pretty clear.


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## dereko1969 (6 Apr 2011)

Do you generally read just the first


bronco lane is a silly billy



and last paragraphs of all posts?


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## RoyRover (6 Apr 2011)

Why oh why aren't we getting the long term unemployed out there to do this for their dole, rather than paying them a couple of hundred a week to sit at home watching TV3 and drinking Aldi beer?


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## Complainer (6 Apr 2011)

RoyRover said:


> Why oh why aren't we getting the long term unemployed out there to do this for their dole, rather than paying them a couple of hundred a week to sit at home watching TV3 and drinking Aldi beer?



Probably because;
1) we respect people on the dole, and don't see it as an opportunity to exploit them, and
2) we need the best people to do the job, so we do a normal recruitment process that picks people with the right skills and abilities.


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## Niall M (7 Apr 2011)

my sister lives on her own and had the census person around last night. He asked how many males living in the house. Is that normal, she is a bit freaked out over it. never asked how many females.


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## irishmoss (7 Apr 2011)

No they asked me the same question and took note of it.


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## SlurrySlump (7 Apr 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Do you generally read just the first
> 
> 
> bronco lane is a silly billy
> ...


 
Childish post really. 

I get the point that Soylent was trying to make as well. If huge corporations cannot protect the information that they have stored on their systems then it is possible that storing documents in the boot of a car ot transferring them for A to B to C and then back again seems to me to be costly, foolish and irresponsible.

Incidentally can someone clarify. Are there two types on envelopes issued to the enumerator for people wishing to return their completed Census Forms?  Type plain brown and Type plain browm with H added?


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## slave1 (8 Apr 2011)

All of us are going to be out of the counry Census night so the Enu called back with another form and also wanted our flight confirmation, when we were travelling, address of where we were staying and when we were getting back, all of that in writing.
I said that's too much information (empty house) so they sent around their supervisor who asked for the eact same information and I refused again as this information is not required per Form E (which I got a hold of myself as the Enu would not give it to me), she insisted she needed it there and then and she had the power to request info not on the form, so I refused, took her name and said I would check it out via the helpline.
I phoned the helpline and they could not help me as they were not familiar with the form!! but took my number and said they would pass my request onto the expert in question.
Later in the day the original Enu phoned me saying she'd had a request to give assistance, so in essence I was back at square one however now I had a copy of Form E with me so could not see anything about flight details/when leaving/when getting back etc, she then told me it was her supervisor who looked for the info, so I told her she could have Form E and no more.
Form E was collected that evening, not a word said.
Power trip on behalf of Super if you ask me.


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## gipimann (8 Apr 2011)

Spoke to someone who's working as enumerator this year, who mentioned that queries/issues raised on web fora (no specific sites mentioned) were discussed at a training session for the enumerators this week.

Not sure what effect it might have, but it's good to see that at least someone somewhere's taking note of what's happening out there!


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## RoyRover (8 Apr 2011)

gipimann said:


> Spoke to someone who's working as enumerator this year, who mentioned that queries/issues raised on web fora (no specific sites mentioned) were discussed at a training session for the enumerators this week.
> 
> Not sure what effect it might have, but it's good to see that at least someone somewhere's taking note of what's happening out there!


 
Hope they pick up on the idea of encouraging the unemployed to do this role, as a way to boost their self esteem and give them some valuable work experience.

Anyone I've met doing it over the years has been a school teacher doing it in the evenings. Bless 'em - only the highest paid teachers (on an hourly rate) of any country in the EU!

€2k for a week's work really does seem excessive though. I know I'd do it, if I only had the time. 

In reality, we should look to the UK where they are eliminating it completely to be replaced by a variety of data sources collected by companies such as Experian. These companies draw their source data from the voters roll, utility bills, TV licencing records, banks and credit card data, etc and so give a far more comprehensive and dynamic view of the populus than any census could do.

However, we seem to be addicted to wasting public money in this country, so the census (leis an muinteoir) will continue for decades to come


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## Complainer (8 Apr 2011)

RoyRover said:


> Hope they pick up on the idea of encouraging the unemployed to do this role, as a way to boost their self esteem and give them some valuable work experience.


Nice to see that you've seen the light and moved on from 'force them to do this work for their dole'. Congratulations. About 20% of enumerators were on the Live Register, though there may well have been other unemployed people (e.g. housewives) not on the Live Register who took up the job also.

The problem for anyone unemployed is the back-loading of most of the payment. This would leave them with €100 per week to survive for the first few weeks.



RoyRover said:


> €2k for a week's work really does seem excessive though. I know I'd do it, if I only had the time.


You'd need a lot more than a week. The hourly rate about €10 an hour - hardly excessive.



RoyRover said:


> In reality, we should look to the UK where they are eliminating it completely to be replaced by a variety of data sources collected by companies such as Experian. These companies draw their source data from the voters roll, utility bills, TV licencing records, banks and credit card data, etc and so give a far more comprehensive and dynamic view of the populus than any census could do.


Nonsense - They are doing a full census in the UK this year - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12873011 but don't let the facts hold you back from yet another anti-Irish-public-sector rant.


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## SlurrySlump (11 Apr 2011)

slave1 said:


> Form E was collected that evening, not a word said.
> Power trip on behalf of Super if you ask me.


 
Tin Gods.
I'm still waiting for the person I spoke with on the helpline to phone me back with information that I requested.  Why do they have people like this answering the phones?


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