# toilet water coming up thru shower?



## sinead76

I have a small plumbing problem in my ensuite.  Whenever we flush the toilet, water starts gurgling and comes up through the shower and sink.  recently, the shower has started to fill up when its being used, the water doesn't drain away quick enough.  when the toilet is flushed, some shower water and some toilet water come up into the shower and then drain away. This morning i had to wash out the shower before i would get in it and when i was doing this the water didn't drain away for ages.  when it did drain i got in and had my shower and had no problems, the shower tray didn't fill up with water.  About half an hour later, i flushed the toilet and the toilet water came up through the shower and sink again.  what could be causing this?  I've tried washing soda and caustic soda and they've made no difference.


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## legend99

*..*

The obvious answer of course is that there is a block in the drainage system. 
Are you a house in an estate....are you in the country side somewhere...are you on the mains for sewerage or do you have a septic tank etc. 
You can get special stuff to pour down the toilet and hope it unblocks it....but the best bet is mechanical...ie. drain rods will clear a pipe the best.

Either way, the next step is to list the manhole cover for whereever the water is emptying into....i.e. where the main drain pipe from the toilet.ensuite is going to and see if that is blocked. Or see what rate the water comes into it when someone upstairs flushes....it should come roaring down. 

Either way, lift the manhole for starters to check!


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## sinead76

*re:*

house is a bungalow in the country with our own septic tank bio-environmental thingy.  the ensuite is the only room in the house with the problem.  Main bathroom has no problem, neither has the kitchen except for the fact that there's a gurgly noise in the sink when the dishwasher is emptying but nothing actually comes up.  Will lift the manhole and have a look.  What is the stuff that can be poured down the loo?  I'll try some of the hardware shops


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## legend99

*..*

Can't remember its name. get it in any place....might even have it in Tescos, Dunnes etc. 
It it were me, the first thing I would do is lift the manhole....and have someone upstairs flush and make sure the water comes tumbling out of the house. Do that and report back here...we had a similar problem...solved with the hiring of sewer rods for a tenner


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## sinead76

*plumbing....*

flushed loo last night had the same problem, then a few seconds later all the water in the toilet got sucked away with this gurgly noise that sounded like something out of a horror film.  shower was covered in semi-disintegrated bog roll particles so i gave it a good wash out this morning and left it for about 10 minutes.  used the shower and the tray didn't fill up, waited 10 minutes and then flushed the loo - no problems!  flushed it again 10 minutes later and same again - no problems.  Think the blockage might have cleared itself but other half is going at the manhole with the rods today anyway


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## zag

*Re: plumbing....*

Sinead,

I think there is a more basic problem here.  I'm not entirely sure, but I thought that building regulations mean that the loo must discharge direct to the foul sewer and not connect in to anything on the way.  In other words when you flush it should all go down the pipe and only emerge from that pipe underground.

However sinks, showers and baths can all be connected up and feed into a single downpipe.  This type of thing gives rise to the gurgling noise.

The reasons for this are pretty obvious and are manifest in your case - to prevent foul waste coming back up anywhere other than the toilet (if it has to come back up at all).

This problem could be cause if your main sewer was blocked *underground*, but this doesn't seem to be the case as your other sinks and drains don't have this problem.

I would really be more concerned about the fact that your toilet outlet is connected to your shower outlet.  The scenario from last night is not a pretty picture and is certainly very unhygenic.  Imagine the situation if you were having a shower at the time . . .

Can anyone confirm the building regulations ?

z


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## cobalt

*plumbing*

From the Dept of the Environment's website: Technical Guidance Document H -Drainage and Waste Water Disposal


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## extopia

*Re: plumbing*

Had a somewhat similar problem with a new upstairs bathroom. We'd flush the jacks and the water would be sucked out of the trap under the shower. This would break the water seal and a bad smell would enter the room via the sewer. This sometimes happens when sink/shower waste pipes are connected to the same discharge pipe or stack that carries the toilet waste.

Told the plumber about the problem and he came back and installed an anti-siphon vent (valve?) on the shower outlet. Problem solved.

In your case it sounds like you had a blockage which cleared itself, but if flushing the toilet affects your other waste pipes in any way you should have one of these simple devices fitted. 

Good luck.


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## sinead76

*devices...*

probably couldn't get that thing installed easily as i live in a bungalow and a plumber would probably have to dig up the concrete (and my new tiles).  Blockage cleared itself in the end and we only use the ensuite toilet at night anyway so it shouldn't reappear


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## extopia

*Re: devices...*

The antisiphon device can be installed outside on the waste pipe. Hopefully not everything is underground?


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## sinead76

*Blockage*

This problem came to a head last night.  The manhole outside the ensuite overflowed onto the footpath so we lifted it and it was full to the top of water, toilet paper etc. and the smell was horrendous.  The pair of us got down and dirty with the rods and rubber gloves and it started to mover, albeit very slowly.  I went over to the main manhole at the back of the house, but nothing was coming through.  After a lot of pushing and shoving and rods getting stuck etc. the source of the problem eventually emerged in the form of a 6inch long 3 inch thick lump of aeroboard (the kind covered in foil that they used for the insulation).  I don't know how it got there but the plumbing is running smoothly now!


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## Elderdog

*Well Done*

Long tradition in our house is that anyone working the rods gets a bottle of booze at the end of the job

If no one else will treat you then I suggest you treat yourself. ( it will make it easier to get started, er, next time )


eDog


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## James

*That hungry feeling*



> the source of the problem eventually emerged in the form of a 6inch long 3 inch thick lump of aeroboard



Jaysus Sinead, what HAVE you been feeding your hubby ?


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## Sinead C

*plumbing?*

I feel your pain - when I started living in my BRAND NEW house the toilet in the ensuite wasn't flushing properly - turned out the plumber had put in an essential pipe upside down - they obviously neglected to tell him in plumbing school that water doesn't flow upwards, not often anyway. Also - when I turned on the shower it rained in the sitting room - he hadn't connected the pipe at all, just threw the shower tray in the ground and went off for tea. The foreman had the good grace to look embaressed when he came back though...


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## harlen_james

i have a similar problem with my washing machine. everytime i run it the toilet down stairs (within 20ft) starts to get close to over flowing. I have seen colored water and soap in the toilet while running the washer. do you think the problem is on the washer side? no water leaking anywhere around the toilet or washer.


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## ClubMan

Check the manholes around the house for blockages. Sounds like the waste water/sewage system is blocked somewhere.


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## extopia

Somehow the waste from the washing machine is being forced up the u-bend into your toilet. This is highly irregular.

Describe the layout of your drains. The toilet should drain into a 100mm pipe going directly to your main sewer or septic tank. The washing machine should drain through a 50mm pipe into a gulley trap, connected to another (or possibly the same) 100mm pipe going to a main sewer, soak pit, or possibly septic tank or other wastewater treatment system. 

Sounds like the pressure of the washing machine outflow is somehow forcing it back up from the waste system into the toilet. This should not happen, but I suppose it's possible in a badly laid out (and/or blocked) system.

Tell us more.


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## sheena1

I have the same problem with my en-suite as Sinead. Have tried caustic soda but to no avail. The manhole outside has been sealed with cement. Is there anything stronger than caustic soda that I can use on the blockage before I go digging up the footpath?


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## extopia

You probably just need an antisiphon valve put onto the shower waste pipe.


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## sheena1

Would I not put that on after I get the drain unblocked to prevent it happening again? First I think I need to unblock the shower/toilet. The rest of the drains in the house are ok. I am really looking for something stronger than caustic soda. Is there anything on the market?


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## Leo

Sheena1, you really need to get access to the manhole. When you say sealed, is it completely covered? Could the concrete be chiseled away?
Leo


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## sheena1

It is not completely covered but there is about three inches of concrete all the way around it. Is this the only option? If the pipe is blocked between the shower and the manhole will the brushes work? I would have thought I would only be pushing the blockage back further? Sorry if I am asking silly question but this is new to me!


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## Leo

If there is a blockage, access to the manhole will help identify where it is. Why was the manhole covered? 

Is there a vent on the soil stack, the pipe coming from the toilet? Can you see where the pipe from the toilet comes out through the wall? I presume the shower waste is feeding into this pipe.


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## sheena1

Yes there is just one big pipe (with a vent) coming from the en-suite. When I pour water down the sink/shower the toilet gurgles and splutters and vice versa when i flush the toilet. I tried caustic soda yesterday but the blockage is still there.
Whoever laid the footpath just seems to have sealed around the manhole cover. I could get someone to chip away at the concrete and have a look?


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## extopia

You don't necessarily have a blockage. That's why I suggested the antisiphon valve. There is not enough air getting into the system so the use of one waste pipe is pulling water out of trap on the other.

But you need to clear that manhole anyway - essential to have access to the drains in case there _is_ a blockage.

Is the bathroom on the ground floor or an upper floor?


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## Lorz

Our last builder poured the concrete footpath over one of our manholes too!  Not a big problem to remove it.  Personally I would recommend getting a drain cleaning co. to jetblast the lines with a jetting unit.  Do not use rods as you could end up with a bigger problem than you started with - lose them causing a bigger blockage!  A drain cleaning co. should charge about €150 and it should take less than 30mins to clear.  They should also be able to advise of possible problem.


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## Gillo40

Hey I have read all the posts and they are all linked to having a house.

Living in a new apartment block (1 year old) and none of the other apts that we know of have the problem.

Flush toilet in main bathroom and it comes back up the shower.  The shower has only been used twice in the year (no shower screen) and when we queried the problem the builders said it is because the shower doesn't get used!  Is this possible?  Or is their a bigger issue.  It isn't an issue in the Ensuite.

Any suggestions would be apprecaited since it is an apartment block and I am the only apt on my floor with the issue I can't go digging up the manholes in the car park.  It is the 6th floor.

Thanks


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