# Bottle of Wine contained something else!



## BOXtheFOX (8 Apr 2008)

I opened an Australian bottle of wine last night to discover that the contents looked like cloudy water. It was a wine that I was not familiar with. I foolishly took a mouthful and it was obvious that this was not wine but some type of watery, slightly salty vile tasting fluid. Looking at the bottle through the light it appeared to have lots of floating particles and some sort of sediment in the bottle. It has left a nasty taste on my mouth. What the hell is it? Could it contain any harmful bacteria?

I contacted the winery and I have received an email back saying that they would like to take the bottle plus contents away for analysis?


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## Caveat (8 Apr 2008)

It's maybe worth googling the brand and year to see if anything else has been reported. Maybe being over cautious, but a visit to the doctor wouldn't go amiss.

It may of course just be a badly 'corked' specimen I suppose - white I take it?


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## Samantha (8 Apr 2008)

some wines turn bad (taste like vinegar with separated ingredients like your describe) if they are not being stored properly. You should return the bottle as instructed


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## Seagull (8 Apr 2008)

It might be worth keeping some before sending it away. That way, you'll be able to get it analysed yourself if you want.


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## Jack The Lad (8 Apr 2008)

Agree 100% with Seagull. Keep a sample. Pour some into a sterilised container, screw the cap tight and keep it in your fridge, or at least someplace constantly cool. If you're not satisfied with their results then you can check it out yourself. Corked wine usualy tastes like rank vinegar... not so sure about the watery/salty taste you describe.

If there were any harmful bacteria in it, you would know all about it by now, so you can probably relax on that front!


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## BOXtheFOX (8 Apr 2008)

No this wasn't wine that had gone off nor corked wine. This was another substance completely. My first thought was that this was a bottle of the wash that is used to clean the pipes. Is this possible?


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## BOXtheFOX (9 Apr 2008)

Is there anywhere in Dublin where I might get the contents analysed?  Would it be expensive?


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## bacchus (9 Apr 2008)

BOXtheFOX said:


> Is there anywhere in Dublin where I might get the contents analysed? Would it be expensive?


 
Don't see where you are trying to get by getting it analysed?

Rather go and buy an other bottle of wine and enjoy it.


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## Jack The Lad (10 Apr 2008)

Not sure, but maybe try UCD or similar. Science Dept might use it as a lab project for students? If they're up for it, you'll get it done for free. 
If not, they'll surely know where you can send it for professional analysis. 
As for cost... I had a well-water sample tested recently for pH, coliform, Manganese, Iron and hardness which cost €80, but I'd imagine the kind of analysis you'd need in your case could cost a lot more.


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## remey (10 Apr 2008)

bacchus said:


> Don't see where you are trying to get by getting it analysed?
> 
> Rather go and buy an other bottle of wine and enjoy it.


 

I would get it analysed immediately. When you buy a bottle of wine, you expect just that-wine!
I would be raging if I got the contents mentioned above!


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## BOXtheFOX (10 Apr 2008)

This is the initial email response from the company. 

"The lot number is from a production of XXXXXXXX Merlot Cabernet 04 done on the 31.5.05.  There have been no other similar complaints from this production.

We have had a look at the bottling records detailed below, and it does not help us identify the substance.  

The offending bottle has a lot number from 9:56; this is in the middle of the bottling run.  
The run began at 8:02, a winemaker tasted the wine from the bottling line before starting to ensure that the wine was sound at 7:54 and taste and analysis were correct at that time.  
We did production analysis on a bottle of wine at 9:57, which was also normal.  
This wine carried on bottling all day with routine periodic checking and finished at 16:02, there were no abnormal circumstances noted in the course of production.

In order to investigate further we will need a portion of the substance in the bottle - if Mr XXX would like to keep some as he suggests, then I would recommend that we advise that he buys a small mineral water bottle, tips it out, then transfers some of the offending liquid to the clean bottle, tapes the lid to ensure no leaks and sends it this way.  We would also like to see the cork."


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## bacchus (10 Apr 2008)

remey said:


> I would get it analysed immediately. When you buy a bottle of wine, you expect just that-wine!
> I would be raging if I got the contents mentioned above!


 
OK, so let assume you get it analysed at a cost of at least €80 as mentionned in a previous post.  Then you get the results.
What do you do next?


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## oopsbuddy (10 Apr 2008)

Sounds like the wine company/seller is trying to investigate it in good faith. Do what they ask and send on a sample, and await their next response. I'd be surprised if they don't try and compensate you with some freebies at least. Good PR an dcustomer relations, etc. Don't forget, the wine MAY have been perfectly OK when it left the supplier; it may have been tampered with AFTER they delivered it! Perhaps some idiot planted it in the shop for a laugh when nobody was looking?


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## Complainer (10 Apr 2008)

Might be worth contacting the FSAI.


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## oopsbuddy (11 Apr 2008)

I couldn't help thinking about your original post last night when I was opening a bottle. If it was a Merlot Cabernet, it should be a deep dark red colour. When it wasn't, and it looked like you described, why on earth did you put it anywhere near your mouth, let alone taste it?


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## MandaC (11 Apr 2008)

I have often had white wine that tasted like something you would clean out pipes with/paint stripper.  More to do with bad choice of plonky wine than anything wrong though.


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## BOXtheFOX (12 Apr 2008)

oopsbuddy said:


> I couldn't help thinking about your original post last night when I was opening a bottle. If it was a Merlot Cabernet, it should be a deep dark red colour. When it wasn't, and it looked like you described, why on earth did you put it anywhere near your mouth, let alone taste it?


 
Yes I agree. I thought I had picked up a bottle of white. What annoys me is that when it didn't even look like white wine I still decided to taste it! A bit like touching  paint when there is a "Wet Paint" sign to see if it is wet. Anyhow I am sending off a sample of the wine to the company to be analysed.


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## The_Banker (14 Apr 2008)

Let us know how you get on or what there testing uncovers.

Im intrigued!


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## diarmuidc (14 Apr 2008)

Complainer said:


> Might be worth contacting the FSAI.


With the aim of achieving what? It's clear to me from the reply that the company in question is being very thorough and taking the problem serious and are still following up on the issue.

In any case it's been 7 days since ingesting the liquid. I think you got away with it.


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## Titusfeck (14 Apr 2008)

There could have been a residue from a CIP (clean in place) system - which typically uses an alkali solution in conjunction with cold and hot demin water flushes, to clean the filling machine at the bottling plant, after or in between production runs. - my guess is that it related to a particular head on the bottling line - in which case there would be similar complaints received. They would generally be able ot differentiate bogus claims from genuine ones - I recommend that you send them a sample - they may well send you a case of reserve in return for your help.


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## Complainer (14 Apr 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> With the aim of achieving what?


With the aim of getting the product tested by an independent source and ensuring that the public is protected from any potential danger.


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## BOXtheFOX (15 Apr 2008)

Some more info. Digital pictures sent by email. I asked the supplier if the picture of the bottle,cork and foil wrapper were those used by his company but he refused to answer these questions. I also asked him if he had an agent in Ireland. He also refused to answer this question.

His email to me below.

"Thanks for replying to my email promptly. XXXXX we really can’t find out anymore information until we get that sample analyzed and our winemakers to view the sample. I will forward you the analyzed results once we get this wine tested which will occur right away.

XXXXXXXX it might be worth us picking up the bottle and the cork and you keep a sample of the contents so we can get a look at the bottle and see what substance is stuck on the inside of the bottle.

Do you have a digital camera? It would help if we could visually have a look at the contents, bottle, and cork while we wait for the bottle to arrive in Australia? You would also have a copy of the pictures for yourself."

I am sending off a sample of the contents today plus the cork that was in the bottle.


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## BOXtheFOX (7 May 2008)

Latest update. I would appreciate if any AAM posters who know people in the wine trade to comment on the following.


Dear Mr XXXX 
We have had a look at the sample and cork that you returned and find the following: 
The cork is not of a type that we use. 
We contacted the manufacturer and they inform us that this cork can be identifed from the design on it and it was supplied to a European customer.  
It is extremely unlikely that this cork was put into the bottle in Australia. 
The liquid is not of a type that we use, all of the clear solutions that we use in our bottling hall are quite distinctive, and this is not one of them.
From what we have been able to test in our laboratory it is probably mouldy water, there is not much other than water in the sample. 
The pH is similar to fresh water from peaty soils but a bit lower than generally found in town supplies, conductivity is within normal ranges for water.  
It is slightly cloudy and has a distinct musty smell, this may be from the wine residue when it was refilled. 
We are looking into whether we can get any more information on this, but is not as simple as the TV forensic series would have one believe!
From the above I would have to conclude that the bottle has had the wine removed and the water put into it. 
You were not sure of the origin of the bottle - whether it was a gift or had been bought. 
We sell quite a lot of wine and from time to time this sort of thing is reported to us.   Generally in Australia it turns out to be a prank by friends or children.
As the capsule was on the bottle when you opened it, it would seem to have been well done. 
It is unlikely that someone was trying to counterfeit the wine as it was not similar to the original red wine, and being a relatively low value wine again this is unlikely.
I will keep you posted if the above changes. 
Regards 


XXXX


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## pc7 (7 May 2008)

Box that is nuts!


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## aircobra19 (7 May 2008)

Very curious.


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## sparkeee (7 May 2008)

sounds awful.i would get an industrial strength mouth wash.


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

In fairness to the maker they cannot be held responsible for what happens to their wine once it is sold to an importer or shop or arrives in someone’s home. If you were able to tell them where it was bought they could have traced the chain back to them and investigated further. 
I would suggest you buy another bottle of the same wine and check if the cork is the same as the one from the first bottle. If it is not then you have no reason to dispute their claims.


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## Black Sheep (7 May 2008)

So now I know why they do this pretentious tasting bit in Restaurants. Ithink I will really taste it the next time


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## truthseeker (8 May 2008)

Box - that is mad!
Its a pity you dont know if you bought it or were given it (Id be the same).

I cant believe people actually remove wine from bottles and reseal them in such a way!


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## Caveat (8 May 2008)

Black Sheep said:


> So now I know why they do this pretentious tasting bit in Restaurants. Ithink I will really taste it the next time


 
It's not pretentious. 'Corked' wine (where the wine reacts with the cork) is quite common - it's up to you, the customer, to decide if it tastes ok. Really, you should always taste it.


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## z105 (8 May 2008)

> 'Corked' wine (where the wine reacts with the cork) is quite common




A "corked" wine is one that has been spoiled by a cork contaminated by "Trichloranisole", or TCA, which can be detected at concentrations of just a few parts per trillion. It affects the wine, giving it a musty, dank, mouldy smell and an off taste. Chlorine solutions used to sterilise corks have been found to encourage the production of TCA. This is the most common wine fault and can occur at the rate of one in 20 bottles opened (not at such a high rate for fine wines). This has stimulated the development of stoppers made from types of plastic, agglomerate cork and even screw tops. 
Cork floating in the wine does not mean it is corked. It is a sign of a dried out cork or it could simply be that the bottle has been opened poorly. Mould on top of the cork is nothing to worry about either.


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## BOXtheFOX (8 May 2008)

It wasn't "corked" wine. Please read the thread. It was a red wine but the bottle contained a cloudy watery liquid that after analysis has turned out to be "mouldy water".


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## Caveat (8 May 2008)

BOXtheFOX said:


> It wasn't "corked" wine.


 
I know.



> Please read the thread.


 
I have - I was responding to Blacksheep's post and Havealaugh was in turn expanding on mine.


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## huskerdu (8 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> It's not pretentious. 'Corked' wine (where the wine reacts with the cork) is quite common - it's up to you, the customer, to decide if it tastes ok. Really, you should always taste it.


 
It is worth pointing out that a corked wine might only start to taste really foul after a few minutes in contact with the air. Therefore, if you taste a wine and think it is OK, and a few minutes later, the next glass tastes bad, you can still send it back.


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## truthseeker (8 May 2008)

So Box - what are you going to do now after receiving that response? I suppose there isnt really another avenue you can go down as the supplier seems to be saying its not their fault?


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## BOXtheFOX (8 May 2008)

I'm just wondering if some companies might ship containers/tankers of wine to another country plus their labels and have it bottled in that country to save on shipping costs. Anyone ever heard of this?

Hence the following email to the company. 


Dear XXXX,

This is very strange.  When I originally contacted your company you were able to identify from the numbers on the side of the bottle lots of information, date and time of run etc. So the bottle definitely appears to be one of yours.  *Was this bottle sold in Australia or can you identify what country it was shipped to?*

Now you say that the cork is not one that you use.  *Can you let me know where it is manufactured and what country were using these corks?  *

*Do you outsource or franchise out the manufacture of your wine to a third party or licence someone else to use your Logo's, name etc?*

As mentioned previously we had two bottles of this wine. We drank the other and it was fine. This was not a prank by anyone on us. I think I know the person who gave it to me as a gift and they are the most respectable of people who would not be involved in a prank of this nature. 

Personally I believe that it is one of your wines or someone is counterfeiting your wine.

A counterfeiter would use a label and bottle identical to yours but not necessarilly one of your corks. *Would a counterfeiter imprint the numbers on the side of the bottle and also the foil wrapper on the top of the bottle?*

*Are they retrieving empty bottles from bottle banks and refilling them? *

*XXXX, have you had any other strange reports about your wine?*

*Regards,*


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## Pique318 (9 May 2008)

OK, long shot here, but I've another possible explanation.

Some wine bottles have the foil on tightly and some don't. Basically, instead of having to cut it, you can just slip it over the top of the bottle...
Sooo... maybe someone did this, drank the wine, refilled it with water, couldn't fit the original cork back into the bottle but found one in the house that did fit and used it instead, replaced the foil and brought it back to the shop 'unopened' for a replacement bottle of something else ???

There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there, and I wouldn't put it past some of them !!!!


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## BOXtheFOX (28 May 2008)

This is the response I got to the above email.


_Dear XXXX_

_I am afraid you have slightly misunderstood my email, please can I clarify as below:_

_The bottle and labels and markings are from our company and are correct for the wine that was put into the bottle as previously advised.  _
_This wine was shipped by us to several customers in Europe._

_However the bottle when filled in Australia was not closed with this cork.  Similarly the liquid in the bottle is also not from our bottling plant._

_The cork supply company advise us that this cork was manufactured in Belgium for a European retail chain.  _
_It is not possible to determine what wine the cork was put into._

_It seems unlikely that the bottle would have been retrieved from a bottle bank - I am assuming that the capsule was intact when you opened it?_

_It might be helpful if you could ask the people who gave you the bottle where they purchased it from._​

_We have had no reports of similar problems concerning this wine or any other of our wines in Europe._

_I hope this clarifies the situation._

_regards_​


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## extopia (28 May 2008)

The winemaker seems to have taken this seriously and put up a good case. How well do you know this "friend" who gave you the wine?


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## Yoltan (4 Jun 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> A "corked" wine is one that has been spoiled by a cork contaminated by "Trichloranisole", or TCA, which can be detected at concentrations of just a few parts per trillion. It affects the wine, giving it a musty, dank, mouldy smell and an off taste. Chlorine solutions used to sterilise corks have been found to encourage the production of TCA. This is the most common wine fault and can occur at the rate of one in 20 bottles opened (not at such a high rate for fine wines). This has stimulated the development of stoppers made from types of plastic, agglomerate cork and even screw tops.
> Cork floating in the wine does not mean it is corked. It is a sign of a dried out cork or it could simply be that the bottle has been opened poorly. Mould on top of the cork is nothing to worry about either.


 
Exactly. It's amazing how many people think a wine is corked when there's a few bits of cork floating about. 

What amazes me about this thread is the fact that the op saw that the wine looked strange and then proceeded to drink it.  Absolute madness! Anyway if it's such a cheap wine just put it down to experience and don't waste any more time or energy on it.


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## Bronte (4 Jun 2008)

I live on the continent and I understand that a lot of the large chainstores import their 'own' wines in large containers and and then bottle them themselves under their own brand name.  As he has specifically mentioned Belgian this could be Carrefour, Delhaize, Cora or Colruyt.  What is the name on the bottle cork?  For a cheap bottle of wine it is not worth the bother of conterfeiting.  You seem to have been unlucky, maybe it was the end of a bottling run or something.


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## lightswitch (4 Jun 2008)

"this was not wine but some type of watery, slightly salty vile tasting fluid."

Hate to be disgusing op, but met someone who in the 80's worked during the summers in a bottleing plant in dublin,  every now and again they would pee in the bottles as a joke. Sorry, but your post brought back that story to me!


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## Jimmy Mook (4 Jun 2008)

Thats why its called "Le Pee at Door"


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## BOXtheFOX (17 Sep 2008)

Bronte said:


> I live on the continent and I understand that a lot of the large chainstores import their 'own' wines in large containers and and then bottle them themselves under their own brand name. As he has specifically mentioned Belgian this could be Carrefour, Delhaize, Cora or Colruyt. What is the name on the bottle cork? For a cheap bottle of wine it is not worth the bother of conterfeiting. You seem to have been unlucky, maybe it was the end of a bottling run or something.


 
Did anyone else see the "Dispatches" programme on T.V. the other night showing the grapes being grown on land in the Champagne area that was used as a dump by the city of Paris and the tricks of the trade by winemakers in France with all sorts of chemicals/flavours being added to wine. Pretty awful stuff altogether.


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## j26 (17 Sep 2008)

I'm so disappointed it wasn't a [broken link removed]in the bottle


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## mcaul (17 Sep 2008)

Just read this and em well em, in my student days...many many years ago we eh sort of got a bottle of wine from deveneys (apologies to Tom Deveney), slipped the foil off, drank the wine, filled it with ribena and er well, came back and asked if we could exchange it for a bottle of white wine. - And it was done a by others too!! (You can learn SO much in UCD!!!) In fact Higgins of clonskeagh got wind of it and caught some others doing it. 

Seems some of todays students have learnt some of the old tricks.


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## micmclo (17 Sep 2008)

Interesting thread. Fair play to the wine manufacturer, they realy investigated the issue and gave detailed replies. They took it seriously and I don't think you could ask them to do more.

Try emailing NTL or many other companies with a question and getting a detailed email back


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