# Danske Bank/NIB to close down - hold onto your tracker



## Brendan Burgess

Danske has announced today that it is closing down its business in Ireland. 

Most mortgages issued by Danske were cheap trackers, so it's possible that they might offer an incentive to get them paid off early. They haven't made any announcement on this and probably won't. But if you have a Danske Bank tracker, don't repay it yet. 

It's certainly worth making an offer to pay it off early.  All they can do is refuse you.


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## potnoodler

Made them a fair and reasonable second offer about 6 weeks ago, told me there will be no debt reductions or debt forgiveness exact wording and gave me the amount due to that days interest accrued to the cent, and the ECB rate had no effect on them.
Will hold tight


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## mcglough

I have a tracker and I am just about equity - I would love the chance to exit and save a few quid. A good friend has a variable and is well under water - I would prefer to seem them get out of it. Hopefully something will come of it.

potnoodler, what do you consider to be a fair and reasonable offer?


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## Captain Z

This is a shame generally as Danske are very good to deal with, compared to some other banks I have experience with.

This will be interesting, I have a tracker with them, and it is linked to my current account (special lower tracker rate available at the time if I set up a current account with them). The current account incurs charges of €18.95 per quarter, so I wouldn't mind getting rid of that.

The reports state that they will run off existing mortgages on the current terms and conditions, this is great news. But I wonder how the above mentioned current account situation will effect it, as they will be withdrawing the service? As I say interesting, could save €80 a year and keep my tracker rate!


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## Dace69

I'm in the same position as you Captain Z so very interested in what's going to happen, also. Have a very good tracker rate with them but a condition is having a current account with them.  Is there any danger that we could lose out with the tracker or will they be obliged to honour this?

Will be following with interest.


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## Brendan Burgess

potnoodler said:


> Made them a fair and reasonable second offer about 6 weeks ago, told me there will be no debt reductions or debt forgiveness exact wording and gave me the amount due to that days interest accrued to the cent, and the ECB rate had no effect on them.
> Will hold tight



Hi potnoodler

As of that date, they were offically staying in Ireland. Now that they are leaving, it might change. 

Hold tight, and maybe put in another offer later. 

The key thing is that people should remain flexible. Don't go investing in other long-term products where you can't access your money if you need it to take advantage of a deal.

Brendan


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## niceoneted

I also have a .5% above ECB tracker with 13.5 yrs to run. Had to set up current account with pay going into is as condition. When I read the news of them closing, I did think I could pay it off if get discount and have my deeds! 
I'll sit and wait to see what might happen.


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## ang1170

Captain Z said:


> As I say interesting, could save €80 a year and keep my tracker rate!


 
It may be irrelevant now, but there is no need to pay this. You can get them to turn it into a mortgage servicing account, with no charges.

See: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182788


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## Captain Z

Thanks ang1170. 
They told me that it wasn't possible to make any changes to the current set up (I have this in writing). I run an expense account (incl mortgage) from a separate bank, and use the Dankse account for day to day stuff.

I'm gonna wait and see what develops over the next week or so, and then investigate further. I read you thread on dealing with Danske (my sympathies) to change and I could do without the hassle !


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## Captain Z

Buddyboy said:


> People should also re-visit their investments and look at whether it is better to cash them in before year end so as to avoid the increase in exit tax, and give them the potential flexibility of availing of any offer that Danske bank propose in early repayment of thier tracker mortgage.


 
Yeah its a reasonable idea, if Danske made a good offer, but our cash is tied up to fund a new extension, so no hope of clearing the mortgage. I want to hold onto it and continue pay the low rates.....


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## Codogly

Does anyone know can Danske make you switch your Tracker Mortgage to another bank...?


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## Brendan Burgess

Codogly said:


> Does anyone know can Danske make you switch your Tracker Mortgage to another bank...?



You have a contract with Danske and they can't break it.  So they can't force you to move to, say, AIB.

Danske do have the right to sell your mortgage, but the buyer must honour the terms of the mortgage. 

Brendan


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## Codogly

Thanks Brendan ...thats what i thought ... will be interesting to see how Danske play this one ... i wonder would the consider using Certus which BOSI used to winddown its mortgage book here...?


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## Brendan Burgess

Folks

Please keep this thread on track - discuss deposit accounts in other threads.


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## Captain Z

[broken link removed]
This is their official statement - nothing new I'm afraid, but just in case anyone hasn't seen it yet.


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## ronaldo

Current rules require you to either have a fee-paying current account from which your mortgage is paid or a non-fee-paying account from which ONLY the mortgage is paid, i.e. a mortgage servicing account.

This results in the need for standing orders and the amending of standing orders when interest rates change.

I wonder, now that they've made this announcement, will they allow direct debits for your mortgage directly from an external account? It'd make life a lot easier.


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## ronaldo

mcglough said:


> potnoodler, what do you consider to be a fair and reasonable offer?


 
I suppose this depends on the term left to run. For example, someone with 5 years left on their term wouldn't be offered anywhere near as much as someone with 20 years left on their term.

I'd imagine a 1% reduction for every year left on the term wouldn't even be enough but, if you were intending to trade up or rent out your property anyway, it may be sufficient to tempt some people into repaying early.

If accepting an offer would require you to remortgage to AIB, Bank of Ireland, etc., you'd need a significantly higher discount.


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## ronaldo

Query: If Danske were to offer, for example, a 25% writedown for early repayment, would there be any tax implications?


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## Brendan Burgess

ronaldo said:


> Query: If Danske were to offer, for example, a 25% writedown for early repayment, would there be any tax implications?



HI ronaldo 

I think you shouldn't jump the gun.  Don't worry about the tax consequences until it happens.

It was discussed in this thread  

the Duke reckoned 



> the forgiveness of the loan should be a taxable event. In fact a  reduction of a debt is defined in the Tax Acts as a chargeable event for  capital gains tax purposes.



Brendan


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## ronaldo

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think you shouldn't jump the gun. Don't worry about the tax consequences until it happens.


 
Yeah, I'm jumping the gun significantly here but was just interested in the discussion. With the CGT implications, I don't see Danske coming up with an offer that's worthwhile for the tracker mortgage holders unless they have some pretty unusual personal circumstances.


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## MrEarl

Hello,

I am also the very fortunite owner of a low margin ECB tracker (which has many years to run ... although sadly I'll need all of that term, to repay the overall debt needless to say).

I must admit, it will take one hell of a large financial incentive (after any potential tax liability) before I would even dream of permitting them exit their mortgage contract with me.   

We will never have the opportunity to borrow money at such low rates again, as the rates those of us with low margin ECB trackers currently avail of, so remember just how valuable they are before you consider giving them up 

As an aside, Brendan I note your quote above .... it might be interesting to get a view on the difference between debt forgiveness and the offering of a concession in return for early redemption of the debt, given there is a benifit passing to Danske in return for releasing them early from a low margin loan.

Also, one must ask what happens if debt forgiveness happens in part or full, as part of an overall scheme of arrangement - do the potential tax implications then fall away automatically, or do they have to be specifically mentioned and agreed with Revenue as part of the overall arrangement ?


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## ronaldo

It'd be interesting to have insight into the banks thought process on this.

If they offered reductions in debt for early repayment, it'd obviously be all those with the repayment capacity who take up the offer leaving an extremely risky mortgage book behind.

I suppose they could consider something different than complete early repayment - such as a free house revaluation and discount for bringing your mortgage back down to 80% LTV. An offer such as this would leave a more attractive loan book to offload to a potential buyer, i.e. a significantly reduced number of properties in negative equity.

As Brendan says, this is jumping the gun a bit - but an interesting topic nevertheless.


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## DrMoriarty

ronaldo said:


> Current rules require you to either have a fee-paying current account from which your mortgage is paid or a non-fee-paying account from which ONLY the mortgage is paid, i.e. a mortgage servicing account.
> 
> This results in the need for standing orders and the amending of standing orders when interest rates change.
> 
> I wonder, now that they've made this announcement, will they allow direct debits for your mortgage directly from an external account? It'd make life a lot easier.


I've been doing this ever since they scrapped the fee-free banking, although I had to fight with them all the way, and lodge a formal complaint. I think at that stage they just wanted to close the dispute.  

I imagine it'll make a lot more sense for them now to offer the same choice to all their mortgage customers — what's in it for them to keep operating thousands of fee-free servicing accounts?


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## serotoninsid

Looks like they are going to offload their mortgage book;

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...s-to-follow-danske-bank-restructure-1.1598006


Does this bring us any closer to a deal on tracker redemption? In the case of BoSI/Certus, did they actually end up doing any deals on trackers?


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## gimp

Have been in in touch with Danske and they say they have no interest in doing any deals on trackers so that puts that one to bed.............
Has anyone noticed on their tracker mortgages that they have not taken any payment out since the announcement............. mine is normally deducted weekly but has not been deducted in over 10 days and no pending payments showing.........


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## serotoninsid

gimp said:


> Have been in in touch with Danske and they say they have no interest in doing any deals on trackers so that puts that one to bed.............


Not necessarily.  If they are palmed off to a third party, the third party may deal.



gimp said:


> Has anyone noticed on their tracker mortgages that they have not taken any payment out since the announcement............. mine is normally deducted weekly but has not been deducted in over 10 days and no pending payments showing.........


Nope.  My mortgage payment went out this morning.


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## Brendan Burgess

> Mortgages and long-term business loans will either be off-loaded to a third party or refinanced by customers.



I think that this is a clear sign that they don't intend to simply manage the book down over a number of years as BoSI seems to be doing. 

If a third party buys the mortgage book, they will be looking for a quick profit, so I would say that they would accept offers.  They will pay very little for trackers even if they are performing. 

This could be a win-win-win for  everyone, if Danske gave people on trackers a discount to switch to SVR.  And then encouraged one of the other lenders to take over the mortgages. 


Danske would get more than they would get from selling the book
The borrower gets a good discount
The new bank gets a profitable customer
Brendan


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## Codogly

*Danske Trackers ...*

Good point Brendan ... really these Trackers are a pain in the neck for Danske, its going to cost them whichever way the play it now that they've decided to exit the market.

Having said that my own experience of NIB / Danske is that they dont tend to offer great deals ...to date it hasn't being their culture to give large mortgage discounts and realistically if they wanted any existing tracker mortgage holder to switch to SVR the discount would need to be large % before anybody would consider switching to SVR.

Here's hoping but i cant see it happening ...i'd say they'll sell the lot as a package and the buyer will simply realise their profit over the remaining life of the mortgage book.


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## Brendan Burgess

They will get such a poor price for their tracker book, they would be crazy not to try to do some sort of deals. 

Buyers will only want a quick profit - they won't want to realise profit over a 20 year run down period. 

Brendan


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## potnoodler

Funny always remembered when I went to switch into nib in 06 the mortgage it advisor Didnt know the exact ECB rate , I told her and asked her what was in it for them with a .5% over ECB rate , 
She said that they would hope we d be doing other business with them instead 
Sounded mad even then


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## rustyjack

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think that this is a clear sign that they don't intend to simply manage the book down over a number of years as BoSI seems to be doing.
> 
> If a third party buys the mortgage book, they will be looking for a quick profit, so I would say that they would accept offers.  They will pay very little for trackers even if they are performing.
> 
> This could be a win-win-win for  everyone, if Danske gave people on trackers a discount to switch to SVR.  And then encouraged one of the other lenders to take over the mortgages.
> 
> 
> Danske would get more than they would get from selling the book
> The borrower gets a good discount
> The new bank gets a profitable customer
> Brendan



hi brendan, all,

has anyone any knowledge of danske doing deals at this stage?
Or, does anyone know when they will be offloading their mortgages?

many thanks,
rusty


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## MrEarl

rustyjack said:


> hi brendan, all,
> 
> has anyone any knowledge of danske doing deals at this stage?
> Or, does anyone know when they will be offloading their mortgages?
> 
> many thanks,
> rusty




Hello Rusty,

No, I have not heard of anyone getting a deal and I have not been approached myself.   Personally, I would sit tight until they contact you, thats what I intend doing.

I struggle to believe that Danske will sell their loan book(s) easily, not alone for any sort of price that the owners could possibly accept without reporting a massive write off in their financial accounts, so unless Brendan is wrong and they later change tactics (following the BoS model perhaps) then I imagine we will all be hearing from Danske soon enough, offering incentives to repay early.


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## rustyjack

MrEarl said:


> Hello Rusty,
> 
> No, I have not heard of anyone getting a deal and I have not been approached myself.   Personally, I would sit tight until they contact you, thats what I intend doing.
> 
> I struggle to believe that Danske will sell their loan book(s) easily, not alone for any sort of price that the owners could possibly accept without reporting a massive write off in their financial accounts, so unless Brendan is wrong and they later change tactics (following the BoS model perhaps) then I imagine we will all be hearing from Danske soon enough, offering incentives to repay early.



thanks Mr Earl,
Sounds like the best plan alright.
Rusty


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## nutsnbolts

hi all

I know this is hypothetical but what would the expected discount be should there be an offer to move customers from trackers ?


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## MrEarl

nutsnbolts said:


> hi all
> 
> I know this is hypothetical but what would the expected discount be should there be an offer to move customers from trackers ?




How long is a piece of string ? 

(Sorry for the response, but you may aswell guess the lotto numbers, there is absolutely no way anyone can know until the day Danske possibly contact you and offer you some form of discount).


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## yop

Anyone hear anything on this?
Have our accounts with them for 12 years now and an offset mortgage since 2005. 
I am self employed so all my money goes in to my account and I pay my VAT and Returns out of that, so by the 3rd quarter I have a good chunk of money to offset. 
Also we moved our money out of a savings account and into my wifes. 
So currently we have 37% of the value of the mortgage in our accounts and back in October that was at 46%. 

It will be a massive loss for us in this regard.

Have heard nothing at all from them.


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## potnoodler

They pretty poor at any form of communication  , but then what they say are lies 
Anyway , hear most from morning Ireland and then onto aam


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## yop

It still on their site that we need to change, but I have heard zero. 
I checked back over my monthly statements from them and they outline the amount you saved on interest, over the last 2 years its averaging out at 294 euros per month. Over the 25 years left thats 89k euro


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## legoland

Looks like Danske Bank are giving deals to business customers. Wonder will Tracker customers be next??

"The Sunday Independent understands the deal is expected to be closed within the next 48 hours and that it includes a *€10m debt write-down* and more favourable repayment terms over the lifetime of the loan.
This development is a significant boost for the FAI which has always insisted that it would be debt-free by 2020. The restructuring of the loan will bring an end to the Association's arrangement with *Danske Bank*."


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## legoland

*Danske Bank Deal*

Update

24 December 2013
THE FAI has secured a hugely significant deal with its banks to write-off debt worth *€12.5m.*
The Irish Independent can reveal that the football association came to an agreement on the write-down of its loan at lunchtime yesterday, after almost six months of negotiations with Danske Bank.
A source close to the talks said the successful renegotiation of the FAI's loans, which now stand at €43m, leaves the association "in a very good position to achieve the objective of being debt free by 2020".
"This was a phenomenal bit of business when you think about it, almost a quarter of debt reduced following months of intensive negotiations," said the source.
FAI accounts for 2012 showed it owed €59m on the Aviva Stadium, which had put the deal in a perilous position.
However, continued negotiations -- in which businessman Dermot Desmond and owner of St Patrick's Athletic Garrett Kelleher had been "very helpful" -- brought the deal to a successful conclusion.
The FAI is now in a very positive financial position.
The new deal for the FAI and chief executive John Delaney leaves the association with lower interest payments based on a smaller borrowing principle. The FAI is believed to have changed its bank from *Danske Bank* as part of the deal.


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## MrEarl

Hello,

Does anyone know if Danske were previously the only debt provider, or one of a syndicate of Banks ? ... just wondering how much in percentage terms, they actually wrote off.

Thanks


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## Bolddefender

Has anyone heard anything on this since?

I've a ECB+0.5  with about 15 years left but intend to move house in next six months. I presume when I sell this house and move I'll lose my tracker. Therefore the chance to pay off mortgage with discount would be great for me.


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## exDanske

I have nearly 240k left on my LTV tracker with Danske (serious negative equity as well). With last weeks confusion about Danske closing accounts, I transferred pretty much all of my life's savings - around 80k - out of Danske to Ulster Bank. It's now sitting there earning me 0 interest. 

I am wondering what should I do with the 80k - should I put it into some sort of savings products from Ulster Bank (really poor interest rates), or should I hold on to that cash just in case Danske were to make some sort of offer on the mortgage? I am rather clueless about managing my finances - all I know about money is what my dad would have told me back in the day - which is to spend as little as possible.


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## serotoninsid

exDanske said:


> I am wondering what should I do with the 80k - should I put it into some sort of savings products from Ulster Bank (really poor interest rates), or should I hold on to that cash just in case Danske were to make some sort of offer on the mortgage? I am rather clueless about managing my finances - all I know about money is what my dad would have told me back in the day - which is to spend as little as possible.



Check out CiaranT's best buys in the savings/deposits section of the board.  If you think that a deal is likely, then you can go for a shorter term savings product.


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## exDanske

Thank you serotonin-sid!


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## potnoodler

Does anyone know what the  position with the custody accounts set up in lieu off the current and are they still
Setting them up
Currently awaiting a reply from them


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## Ag123

Hi, I don't have a tracker but do have a variable mortgage with Danske with less than €20k left. Good in one sense but I have no savings and quite a lot of college related outgoings. 

I was wondering if anyone with mortgages have heard anything from Danske? I would be interested in clearing the mortgage if I got a reduction on the principal (will still need to borrow to fund that as generally any spare cash I have had over the years has gone to mortgage).

How much would it cost for Danske to transfer a mortgage of €17k with 2 years left to another institution? Surely there is a point at which it is better to cut their losses with a borrower rather than incur the costs of transferring deeds etc.

Any experiences or comments would be most welcome.


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## ronaldo

Ag123 said:


> How much would it cost for Danske to transfer a mortgage of €17k with 2 years left to another institution? Surely there is a point at which it is better to cut their losses with a borrower rather than incur the costs of transferring deeds etc.


 
The legal costs for a randomer on the street to move to another institution would be a little below €1,000. The legal cost for Danske to transfer a book of a few thousand such mortgages would be significantly less.

In addition, the likes of KBC offer €1,000 towards legal fees when remortgaging to them - so chances are that another institution would assist, to a lesser extent, with the legal fees in transferring such mortgages to them.

The chances of Danske offering to write off a mortgage of even €5,000 are slim-to-none.


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## Ag123

Thanks for that.

Good point on the fact that they would be transferring a few thousand mortgages. Does this mean that we have no say on what institution the mortgage will transfer to?

I suppose this is what they are working on and possibly why there is a delay in communicating.


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## serotoninsid

@Ag123:  That's just total speculation.  We will have to wait and see.  It may be that they do nothing at all.  Even if they sell mortgage book to another institution, there is no guarantee that they will then offer some form of deal...they may or may not.

We'll have to sit tight and wait and see


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## Shawady

I know it is speculation, but could Danske pull a fast one on trackers once they are out of Ireland?
Would they have to still use the ECB rate as a reference point? I assume their headquarters are in Denmark, which is not in the eurozone.


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## niceoneted

Just reading through the info that I got in relation to closing my current account. My mortgage account will remain for time being. It states in the booklet that the terms and conditions of the mortgage hasn't changed. Ok fine but one of the stipulations on getting the tracker rate I got was to open a current account, pay in my wages to it and service the mortgage from that account. Now they are terminating the current account. 
Am I right in thinking that I need to write to them and get confirmation in writing, that if I change where the money is coming from ie different current account in another bank ( because they are termination my current account), that I won't be in breach of the mortgage terms and conditions and thus risk losing my tracker?


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## bmm

I need to setup a new feeder/service account for my Danske mortgage. Will Aib OR boi let me setup a service account without fees etc.?


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## potnoodler

This is what id be worrying about. Get out of ireland after wrecking the economy along with others and the n look at revaluation fot the ltv rate 
They definitely not most honest and forcoming bank


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## MrEarl

bmm said:


> I need to setup a new feeder/service account for my Danske mortgage. Will Aib OR boi let me setup a service account without fees etc.?




Hello,

While I have yet to make my own arrangements, the PTSB appear to be offering a free current account (subject to terms) which might suit your needs.

See: https://www.permanenttsb.ie/whatweoffer/current-accounts/current-account/#


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## bmm

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> While I have yet to make my own arrangements, the PTSB appear to be offering a free current account (subject to terms) which might suit your needs.
> 
> See: https://www.permanenttsb.ie/whatweoffer/current-accounts/current-account/#



i will only be lodging 800 per month to this feeder account per month so PTSB wud charge me 48 euro per year for the privilige. Maybe i should look towards Credit Unions but it is very difficult to figure out whether a particular credit union has online facilities or will receive direct debits mandate from a bank etc.


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## RainyDay

bmm said:


> Maybe i should look towards Credit Unions but it is very difficult to figure out whether a particular credit union has online facilities or will receive direct debits mandate from a bank etc.


Ah come on, if it's not on their website, then it is just a phone call to the 2 or 3 CUs that you qualify to join.


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## niceoneted

Notoriously known to be a hoarder but have searched high and low today amongst my documents and cannot find a copy of the terms and conditions of my tracker mortgage. 
Took it out in May 2007. It's the one that was 0.5% above ECB rate. House had to be 50% LTV - which it was at the time. And you had to open the 24/7 account to feed in wages and feed to mortgage. 
If any of you had a copy that you would be willing to scan and email to me - take out your own personal details - would you PM me please.


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## Orga

Received the letter this week - any views on the fact that Danske is requiring a direct debit authority for mortgage payments now, whereas the servicing/current a/c which was used for mortgages previously was fed by a standing order/push arrangement? The point being that direct debit does reduce your own autonomy (I am aware of the protection mechanisms) and there may be limited, if any, potential to over-pay mortgage (if one were so lucky as to have spare cash) once the new arrangements come into play.


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## trustno1

I wonder what would happen if I told Danske that I was not signing the DD mandate but that I was changing my SO from my Ulsterbank Current Account to pay directly into my Danske Mortgage account instead of my Danske Current Account. I just don't like them tinkering around with my Tracker and I take Orga's point about losing autonomy.


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## MrEarl

trustno1 said:


> I wonder what would happen if I told Danske that I was not signing the DD mandate but that I was changing my SO from my Ulsterbank Current Account to pay directly into my Danske Mortgage account instead of my Danske Current Account. I just don't like them tinkering around with my Tracker and I take Orga's point about losing autonomy.



I am very much of the same mind.

While I don't have access to my mortgage documentation or loan documents at the moment, has anyone checked to see what the paperwork says in terms of how the mortgage is paid ?

Assuming it does not specifically reference payment by direct debit, then I think we are well within our rights to tell them we ain't signing direct debits end of story.


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## twofor1

PadKiss said:


> I would query your comment on it being simple and free, free yes but simple ?



In my experience, after a small bit of research, I found it was then a simple enough process. I have made two separate complaints to the Ombudsman, both have been fully upheld. I have no legal or financial background whatsoever, nor was any needed.

Those who do not find it simple or are not fully confident going it alone should of course use the services of an adviser experienced in this area.


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## Mr Magoo

ask Dankse to keep my tracker mortgate c/a open - the c/a does nothing else, no fee, no debit card etc.
they wrote back to say no and want me to fill out a direct debit mandate from an alternate c/a

anyone know can I just pay directly into my mortgage a/c e.g. from rabo.


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## twofor1

My Danske T&c’s under current account state;

‘_’Where your current account is operated through any other bank, you must prior to drawdown of the loan provide a standing order or direct debiting authority to us in such form as we may require.’’_

Can’t see how this could now apply as your loan is already drawn down, and they are closing your existing current account.

Under Repayment, it simply states ‘_’You agree to repay the loan by the repayment instalments as they fall due………………………..’’_
It makes no mention of direct debits or standing orders.

Danske might not like it, but if you want to pay by EFT from your Rabo A/c, then I think the T&c’s allow for it, as long as the money is paid in full and on time.

What is the issue you have with a direct debit ?, My repayment now goes by direct debit from another current account, to me it seemed like the simplest solution.

Is it that you don’t have or want another current account and Rabo don’t allow direct debits ?


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## Mr Magoo

It's more annoying than anything else - was obliged to open a c/a with them (NIB) to get the mortgage and then when they started charging fees I went through hoops (proof of address, passport copies etc) to have it converted to a mortgage feeding account without fees. 

I might try your suggestion - pay by EFT from rabo straight into the mortgage & see how they react.

& thanks for the info re conditions


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## serotoninsid

Mr Magoo said:


> It's more annoying than anything else - was obliged to open a c/a with them (NIB) to get the mortgage and then when they started charging fees I went through hoops (proof of address, passport copies etc) to have it converted to a mortgage feeding account without fees.
> 
> I might try your suggestion - pay by EFT from rabo straight into the mortgage & see how they react.
> 
> & thanks for the info re conditions


Isn't that what they are forcing us to do in any event??


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## twofor1

Mr Magoo said:


> It's more annoying than anything else.............



If this is your only reason for not signing a direct debit, and you think that in the future you might want to trade up, get a car loan, overdraft or change credit card provider, then I think you should reconsider.

If you forget or are unable (internet banking down, sudden illness etc) to manually make your payment on time even once, then your credit rating will probably be shot for several years thereafter.


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## Mr Magoo

@twofor1 - I get paid directly into Rabo savings a/c and have a standing orrder set up to automatically pay into the mortgage feeding C/A each month. So I just have to switch that to pay into the mortgage instead - if Dankse allow that. according to your earlier post it should work, I'll give it a go.


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## potnoodler

Personally hate direct debits . As prices always go up without u noticing or so they hope. Standing order to eft should be the proper way


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## Mr Magoo

@potnoodler - or even better pay annually, but not DD, so you have to decide to opt back in. For TV/phone etc of course, no opting out paying the morgage!


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## ang1170

Mr Magoo said:


> @twofor1 - I get paid directly into Rabo savings a/c and have a standing orrder set up to automatically pay into the mortgage feeding C/A each month. So I just have to switch that to pay into the mortgage instead - if Dankse allow that. according to your earlier post it should work, I'll give it a go.



I'm planning to do this as well - that is set up a standing order to pay directly into the mortgage account. 

 I received the Danske letter and booklet this morning, and as others have said they only mention direct debits.

 However, there's a complication: for TRS payments, they say you should set up a direct debit, and they will make the refund payments to the same account. So, what happens if there's no direct debit?

 I'm planning to write to them anyway, but has anyone else established from them if they will make TRS payments when there's no direct debit?

 Please don't suggest just setting up a direct debit: I do not want to do this, especially with Danske. I'm already in dispute with them about payments taken in the last few weeks, and I don't want to have to deal with this kind of thing in the future.


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## potnoodler

Can the trs payments be made directly into the loan account . Probably not


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## twofor1

potnoodler said:


> Can the trs payments be made directly into the loan account




I have transferred overpayments directly into my Danske mortgage from various banks without issue on numerous occasions.

It has an IBAN, BIC and account number like any other account, I would be interested in hearing any plausible reason why TRS could not be transferred directly to your mortgage account or any other account of your choice, be that Rabo or wherever.


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## potnoodler

So have I . Neither want nor trust direct debits by dansk or  the vulture fund they flog off my loan like a drug debt


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## twofor1

Direct Debit is what Danske want, with TRS refunded to this account, if it’s not what you want then write to them stating mortgage payment will be made directly to mortgage account by standing order / regular transfer and instruct them to send TRS to an account of your choice.


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## ang1170

twofor1 said:


> Direct Debit is what Danske want, with TRS refunded to this account, if it’s not what you want then write to them stating mortgage payment will be made directly to mortgage account by standing order / regular transfer and instruct them to send TRS to an account of your choice.


 
 That's exactly what I'm intending to do, but I just wondered if anyone has done this already, and if so if they've got any response.

 There's no way I'd trust Danske with a direct debit from my main current account. They've got mortgage payments wrong in the past, including within the last two months.


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## Hailey1

*Mortgage docuement*

I have a 2007 tracker mortgage docuement for 1% over ecb rate.
Would you have 2007 terms and conditions for an overdraft. 
As far as I recall it was in a small booklet.


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## serotoninsid

Has anyone had a charge for a late payment rescinded??

In June last year, It slipped my mind to top up my NIB/Danske feeder account - and so, the mortgage standing order didn't go through.  I sorted this out with them but they told me that I would be charged €10 for effectively failing to pay on time.  I didn't like it - but couldn't argue with it.

Last week, I received a letter from them saying that they had reviewed charges applied last year and that €10 charge had been applied in error.  They went on to say that they were crediting me with the €10 - which they have just done.  

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense....but it got me thinking.  Are they cleaning up their loan book and making it more presentable?....as in perhaps for sale?

Maybe I'm as far out as a lighthouse - but just thought I'd mention it and see what others felt?..and indeed if anyone else has had any such charge reimbursed.


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## Squonk

I got charged €10 just recently for a late payment. I was shy €17 in my account! I got a letter 8 days after the due-date to inform me that I had insufficient funds and to pay within 5 days of the due-date or get fined! But that meant that I found out about the issue 3 days too late. I've phoned Danske twice to get the payment rescinded but the charge is still in place.


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## serotoninsid

Squonk said:


> I got charged €10 just recently for a late payment. I was shy €17 in my account! I got a letter 8 days after the due-date to inform me that I had insufficient funds and to pay within 5 days of the due-date or get fined! But that meant that I found out about the issue 3 days too late. I've phoned Danske twice to get the payment rescinded but the charge is still in place.


That's how mine played out last year - the letter arrived after I could fix the problem.  They maintained that they would not relent on the €10 charge - and proceeded to take that out of my account until now - over 6 months later - they hand it back???


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## Wolverine

serotoninsid said:


> That's how mine played out last year - the letter arrived after I could fix the problem.  They maintained that they would not relent on the €10 charge - and proceeded to take that out of my account until now - over 6 months later - they hand it back???



This happened me also.  Call me paranoid, but I wonder if it has anything to do with the legislation/CPC regarding payments/charges associated with bundled products and feeder accounts?

Consumer Protection Code, 2012, Chapter 3, “BUNDLING AND CONTINGENT SELLING”, (3.17 - 3.23), 
particularly Art. 3.18:
Where a credit institution requires a consumer to open a feeder account in order to avail of another product, this shall not be prevented by Provision 3.17 where all of the following conditions are met: 
a) the consumer must not be obliged to use the feeder account for purposes other than facilitating payments to the product concerned; 
b) charges cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established; 
c) where additional facilities are available on the feeder account they must be optional and only activated if requested by the consumer; and 
d) these conditions must be communicated clearly to the consumer. 


Also - One other question - if one decides to pay by electric transfer, and they intend closing the online banking application in December.  How does one know what amount to transfer when an increase in the ECB rate occurs ?


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## aristotle

Wolverine said:


> Also - One other question - if one decides to pay by electric transfer, and they intend closing the online banking application in December. How does one know what amount to transfer when an increase in the ECB rate occurs ?




 Danske previously sent out letters about changes in rates and subsequent repayments. I assume they will still do the same?


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## ang1170

twofor1 said:


> Direct Debit is what Danske want, with TRS refunded to this account, if it’s not what you want then write to them stating mortgage payment will be made directly to mortgage account by standing order / regular transfer and instruct them to send TRS to an account of your choice.



I've now written to them stating exactly this. I also included a statement in relation to the clause in the mortgage account requiring me to have this account open.

 I await their response with interest.


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## Squonk

Squonk said:


> I got charged €10 just recently for a late payment. I was shy €17 in my account! I got a letter 8 days after the due-date to inform me that I had insufficient funds and to pay within 5 days of the due-date or get fined! But that meant that I found out about the issue 3 days too late. I've phoned Danske twice to get the payment rescinded but the charge is still in place.


 Quick Update: Danske reimbursed me the €10 today.


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## serotoninsid

Squonk said:


> Quick Update: Danske reimbursed me the €10 today.



Hmm...that's three of us that have gotten reimbursed.  Two of us were categorically told that they were definitely applying this charge.  I know wolverine mentioned that applying the fee may get them in bother as per this;

"b) charges cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established; "

I would have thought that the mortgage contract would probably have something in it - to allow them to apply a charge? (sorry - I know its lazy - but I don't have the compulsion to actually check right now!).


My conspiracy theory (and perhaps I'm as far out as a lighthouse) is that by 'tidying up' these charges, they can categorise an increased percentage of their existing loan book into a "never defaulted on payment" classification.  Would that presentation make their book look more attractive?

Anyways - apologies in advance -as I guess It's complete speculation on my part....


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## Butter

Just wondering if anyone has managed to negotiate a discount on their outstanding capital by paying off their tracker early with Danske?
A reliable little bird told me Danske are doing deals with people in arrears which doesn't appear to have hit the media as yet. 
Of course it's doubtful that there's anything there for up-to-date accounts but surely it would be in Danske's interest to get these loss-making trackers off their books?

I'm probably hoping for an unrealistic miracle here!


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## serotoninsid

@Butter:  Probably a case of seeing if they sell off their loan book - and what the new owners disposition is in this regard at that stage....


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## Butter

serotoninsid said:


> @Butter:  Probably a case of seeing if they sell off their loan book - and what the new owners disposition is in this regard at that stage....



Which may not suit my moving plans unfortunately! 

I just so dislike dealing with Danske. Got a snotty letter from them this morning saying they have been unable to set-up a DD for my mortgage (despite me giving the details previously) & my mortgage "may go into arrears". I'm still waiting on written confirmation that the T&Cs of my mortgage are unaffected by the closure of my servicing account. And every time I hear their ad on the radio telling us what a fantastic bank they are for commercial & investment customers I just roll my eyes.


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## RainyDay

Squonk said:


> Quick Update: Danske reimbursed me the €10 today.



Me three, or is it me four - 2 x €10 unpaid s/o fees refunded yesterday


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## potnoodler

Say we ll have a better chance with whoever buys the mortgage book . Have been bumping trying them for ages
With no luck


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## serotoninsid

RainyDay said:


> Me three, or is it me four - 2 x €10 unpaid s/o fees refunded yesterday


Are they not entitled legally to make this charge?


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## RainyDay

serotoninsid said:


> Are they not entitled legally to make this charge?



Dunno about the legal position, but I made it clear to them that I wasn't going to have a DD, and I would set up the SO myself, so they should really have cancelled the old SO at that point.


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## serotoninsid

My first DD came out of my UB current account the other week.  No hassle ..no fuss.  Dankse feeder account closed.


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## MrEarl

Hello,

Have some of you now successfully commenced payments on your homeloans via standing order from other (non-Danske Bank) current accounts ?

Also, have you successfully had your TRS payments paid into your non-Danske Bank current accounts ?

I just want to be absolutely certain in what I'm saying to Danske Bank as they are trying to force me into a direct debit payment arrangement.

Thank you.


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## RainyDay

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have some of you now successfully commenced payments on your homeloans via standing order from other (non-Danske Bank) current accounts ?


Yes


MrEarl said:


> Also, have you successfully had your TRS payments paid into your non-Danske Bank current accounts ?


No, though as I'm nearing the end of my mortage, the TRS amounts are fairly tiny anyway.


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## potnoodler

A girl called from dansk to ask me to set up the dd . I said i dont like direct debits and was setting up a so . 
She said no bother she will flag me account to state this


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## ang1170

MrEarl said:


> I just want to be absolutely certain in what I'm saying to Danske Bank as they are trying to force me into a direct debit payment arrangement.


 
 They accepted a SO from an external account for me OK, so I doubt they're forcing you to have a DD.


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## potnoodler

The one thing that concerns me about the so is when the vulture fund buy the mortgage book could they use
An a too early or late payment due to bank holidays etc
As a reason deem the loan t&c violated and possibly call in the loan
Is it going to be true that it may not be under the financial regulators remit


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## Butter

I'm pretty sure I say my most trs payment come into my non-Danske account. I'll double-check that today & confirm. 
I've gone with the DD for my mortgage - why are people so against setting up a DD mandate, as a matter of interest? 
I've also told Danske I won't be closing my servicing account as it's one of the T&Cs of my tracker mortgage. I've asked for a letter to confirm that them closing the account doesn't affect the T&Cs. I may never see that of course!


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## twofor1

potnoodler said:


> could they use
> An a too early or late payment due to bank holidays etc
> As a reason deem the loan t&c violated and possibly call in the loan



An early payment would mean you are ahead of schedule with your repayments, can’t see that event been used as a reason to call in the loan.

A late repayment would be a breach, but in this event my T&c’s state the loan will become immediately due and payable on demand only when I am in default for 2 months.


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## potnoodler

Butter said:


> I'm pretty sure I say my most trs payment come into my non-Danske account. I'll double-check that today & confirm.
> I've gone with the DD for my mortgage - why are people so against setting up a DD mandate, as a matter of interest?
> I've also told Danske I won't be closing my servicing account as it's one of the T&Cs of my tracker mortgage. I've asked for a letter to confirm that them closing the account doesn't affect the T&Cs. I may never see that of course!



Hate dd with any company.  Yea its easier for them 
But I found rates are Changed . Prices go up,  and barely advised. 
For me I know what has to be paid monthly utilities and mortgage and unless there is an financial incentive to give any full acces to pillage my account
Whenever they make a mistake is not preferable to me.
Ive no interest of spending an hour on the phone to clear it up . No interest in checking im not being fleeced and even my own bank make me send in a wrtten letter by snailmail or worse que in a branch
To cancel the access I gave my consent to.
Dd is only asking to overpay and ive been overcharged
Before and reckon most have just down to if its been spotted or not.
All my opinion of course but dont understand why people are so lax about it


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## potnoodler

Also an earlier poster mention a payment going in even one day early would be regarded as an overpayment


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## RainyDay

potnoodler said:


> The one thing that concerns me about the so is when the vulture fund buy the mortgage book could they use
> An a too early or late payment due to bank holidays etc
> As a reason deem the loan t&c violated and possibly call in the loan
> Is it going to be true that it may not be under the financial regulators remit



They may not be under the regulator's remit, but they'd still have to go through the Irish court system. No judge is going to allow a bank to foreclose because you've made early payments, or some payments were late on bank holidays.


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## potnoodler

Maybe so but that would involve hiring a solicitor
Which could be pricey and hoping to be awarded the legal costs


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## Bolddefender

Butter said:


> Just wondering if anyone has managed to negotiate a discount on their outstanding capital by paying off their tracker early with Danske?
> A reliable little bird told me Danske are doing deals with people in arrears which doesn't appear to have hit the media as yet.
> Of course it's doubtful that there's anything there for up-to-date accounts but surely it would be in Danske's interest to get these loss-making trackers off their books?
> 
> I'm probably hoping for an unrealistic miracle here!



You hear any more rumours?
Have tracker too and want to move house. Have cash in bank to cover whole mortgage. Not sure how to approach situation with Dankse. If I sell they'll get full amount.


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## Butter

Bolddefender said:


> You hear any more rumours?
> Have tracker too and want to move house. Have cash in bank to cover whole mortgage. Not sure how to approach situation with Dankse. If I sell they'll get full amount.



No sorry, nothing more. I was advised to ask Danske for a discount for paying off my tracker. The house I was interested in isn't a runner so I'm holding fire for now. I wonder if there is more chance of this happening if Danske sell their loan book at a discount. The new lender may be more amenable to a deal. Or maybe not. I wish I had a crystal ball on this one!


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## potnoodler

Waiting patiently for same myself . Dansk dont seem to have any plans atm at least nothing they are broadcasting. 
Id say we will be dealing with the vulture fund instead who hopefully will just want a high return asap instead 
Of operating a direct debit repayment scheme
Good chance ecb rate will drop again in june so even will be a larger haircut will have to be suffered for the trackers. 
Id imagine if dansk cut any deals before selling this may affect the offloading their mortgage book to whatever vulture fund.

Also the less people on direct debits . Again the less atractive it will be. 
I dont see dansk giving a toss about their customes or their irish employees so therefore not taking any of their suggest s as gospel


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## potnoodler

Dansk now saying because im not setting up a direct debit for repayment they are unable to transfer my trs payment s without me calling an 1890 number every time to get payments transferred Manually
They are really just making this stuff up as they go along . Its laughable that they are promoting them selves as a commercial bank


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## yop

Take no heed of them.

I sent them a secure message from within the app on my mobile and told them to transfer it to my new account. They did that. 
I also told them that I was not setting up a DD and that I will transfer the money 1 day before the mortgage is due. They acknowledged that.


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## potnoodler

Yup 
 Thought as much the amount of misinformation 
Ive got from them over last year is unreal
I dont believe a word and have taken copies of all secure mail lies they have sent as im sure it will disappear . And they will deny it in the future
Definitely no direct debit with them


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## Daddy

Have tracker.  Signed up for DD to pay the mortgage.   Should I be worried that it's not a SO.


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## potnoodler

I wouldn't worry about it just personally dont trust them . Probably just me but dont like being flocked into a decision I dont want to take


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## ang1170

potnoodler said:


> Dansk now saying because im not setting up a direct debit for repayment they are unable to transfer my trs payment s without me calling an 1890 number every time to get payments transferred Manually


 
 That's nonsense. I've no DD with them for our mortgage. I received a TRS payment from them a couple of weeks back, which was sent by them automatically, once I'd advised them of the account to send it to.


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## potnoodler

Yes. Ive asked them to confirm again in writing what they are refusing to do.
How can any institution be in such a mess at this stage they are not fit to run a bath never mind a bank


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## Orga

Has anyone received a final statement for a forcibly closed a/c?


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## Butter

No I haven't. I refused to close my servicing account as by doing so I would breach the T&Cs of my tracker mortgage. As they would not provide anything in writing to say that closing the account would not affect the T&Cs I did not close the account. 
As of this week though the account is no longer visible on online banking. No closing statement. 
I also asked this week for the third time for someone to contact me from the mortgage department and have still had no response. 
I also realised that my SO cancellation & the first DD payment have crossed so I have paid my mortgage twice this week. Looking forward to trying to sort that one out tomorrow.


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## serotoninsid

Danske sell 680 properties to Deutsche Bank => http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...om-danske.html
This is probably not significant to anyone looking for some type of deal (as the above relates to properties that have already been relinquished) but the very end of this article here => http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-vie-for-100m-danske-bank-portfolio-1.1765814  ....alludes to them selling off their complete portfolio...


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## MrEarl

serotoninsid said:


> Danske sell 680 properties to Deutsche Bank => http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...om-danske.html
> This is probably not significant to anyone looking for some type of deal (as the above relates to properties that have already been relinquished) but the very end of this article here => http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-vie-for-100m-danske-bank-portfolio-1.1765814  ....alludes to them selling off their complete portfolio...




Everything is for sale, at the right price imho ....

I think the key problems for Danske Bank to date have been:

- they couldn't start doing deals directly with people on their homeloans or RIP loans, simply because it would have "contaminated" their entire loan portfolio with everyone wanting a discount and them taking too large a hit. 

- many of their staff had already left or been let go, with some of their remaining staff not experienced enough or simply capable of handing negotiations on settlement of large loans

As Danske sell property loans to unconnected third parties in volume, they can do so under cover without releasing full details of the sale price of individual loans.  The third parties can then in turn cut deals on individual cases if they want, no doubt at a profit ... with no impact on Danske.


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## potnoodler

has anyone used the secure mail recently have sent a number in last  couple of weeks with no response


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## MrEarl

Hello,

I've not had reason to use their secure service since late July, so can't comment.  I'd imagine they are trying to force everyone to use Pepper now if it's something that is supposed to have been outsourced.  Did you check if Pepper can assist you ?


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## Brendan Burgess

I have moved the discussion of Offset Mortgages to here

Keeping your offset mortgage with Danske Bank


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## dobbins

Hi. this is abit of a rhetorical question but has anyone had any joy with re-financing a Danske tracker mortgage recently?

We are looking to put an extension on our house. If I can't re-finance with Danske my only options are to move my mortgage elsewhere (losing my favourable tracker rate) or getting a personal loan (higher APR, shorter term).

In a normally functioning mortgage market, I would add it to my existing mortgage and pay it off over the term of the mortgage.


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## serotoninsid

dobbins said:


> Hi. this is abit of a rhetorical question but has anyone had any joy with re-financing a Danske tracker mortgage recently?
> 
> We are looking to put an extension on our house. If I can't re-finance with Danske my only options are to move my mortgage elsewhere (losing my favourable tracker rate) or getting a personal loan (higher APR, shorter term).
> 
> In a normally functioning mortgage market, I would add it to my existing mortgage and pay it off over the term of the mortgage.


It would be worth working out exactly what it's going to cost you.  I guess others here can answer definitively but I doubt very much Danske would accommodate you with that.  Can you put it on the long finger and save up the cash instead?


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## MrEarl

Long term, this is probably a serious concern for many of us....

Perhaps the Central Bank needs to make arrangements to ensure that those of us who are former customers of ACC, Danske, BoSI etc are in some way faciliated with regards to moving banks without being "raped" when we do.


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