# 40% of women over 35 in Ireland are single.



## Gordanus (17 Sep 2007)

This statistic was given in an article in last Saturday's Irish Times magazine and has left me puzzled.    OK maybe the widows over 60 bump up the average a bit but it still seems extraordinary.   So, AAMers, in your personal experience, are half of the women that you know over 35 unmarried? (Let's make this poll as scientific as possible )


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## Purple (17 Sep 2007)

Gordanus said:


> So, AAMers, in your personal experience, are half of the women that you know over 35 unmarried? (Let's make this poll as scientific as possible  )


No, only about 40% of them


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## Sn@kebite (17 Sep 2007)

Gordanus said:


> This statistic was given in an article in last Saturday's Irish Times magazine and has left me puzzled.    OK maybe the widows over 60 bump up the average a bit but it still seems extraordinary.   So, AAMers, in your personal experience, are half of the women that you know over 35 unmarried? (Let's make this poll as scientific as possible )


I think people are marrying younger and younger these days so I'd say most of these people are divorced right around 30-35, so that would help explain the large number of singles, what ya think?


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## Sue Ellen (18 Sep 2007)

What difference does it make how many women are single or married  

Why home in on women and not the percentage also of single men over 35? In this day and age what difference does it make if some one is married or single. I feel its their business really and who cares. 

BTW I'm not being smart ass about it but I just don't see the significance of these statistics.


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## DrMoriarty (18 Sep 2007)

Maybe Gordanus is planning on starting an online dating service and this is surreptitious market research?


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## Graham_07 (18 Sep 2007)

sueellen said:


> What difference does it make how many women are single or married
> 
> Why home in on women and not the percentage also of single men over 35? In this day and age what difference does it make if some one is married or single. I feel its their business really and who cares.
> 
> BTW I'm not being smart ass about it but I just don't see the significance of these statistics.


 
If the OP had "homed in" on the percentage bachelor farmers still driving mark 1 VW Golfs, (or worse, Honda 50's !) the statistics would probably not be of significance to many posters either, but as in everything on AAM, such questions promote discussion, debate, and sometimes heated argument and keeps us interested in the forum and brighen up what sometimes, can be another ordinary day at the PC . 

For what it's worth I think that the figure generalises a bit too much as in 40% over 35, I mean with women generally outliving men that is going to stack the figures somewhat. PErhaps narrowing the range to persons over 35 and under , say 75 ( think avg life expectancy for men is around mid-70s ) might give a more meaningful result, or not.


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## Caveat (18 Sep 2007)

Sn@kebite said:


> I think people are marrying younger and younger these days


 
Certainly isn't the impression I get.  If anything, I'd say people are marrying later.  I personally know quite a few people over 35, in long term relationships, with kids, who aren't married and I wouldn't say this is unusual.  In fact I'd say it's largely responsible for the statistic.


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## MOB (18 Sep 2007)

"........but I just don't see the significance of these statistics."

I wish I had the time to become an expert in analysis of statistics.  I think it is possibly a lot more interesting than we realise.   I think that there are various statistics which could have huge significance - and this could be one of them -  but on its own this one just doesn't tell us much.   

Our society has changed a heck of a lot in about a half a generation.  Many women have put off having children until late 30s\early 40s.  Many women have decided to have children without getting married. Oddly, there seems to be a substantial minority of women who - either within or without marriage - are having quite large families (4 or 5 kids would be large by my reckoning these days).  

 The fact that there does not appear to be one 'normal' way of doing things is, I suppose, a testament to the libertarian nature of our modern society.  It is hard to discern an overall pattern.  But if there is a pattern, we certainly won't discern it without good statistics.

These things have a huge bearing on the way we organise our society.  If in 40 years time we have a bigger proportion of old people, the younger taxpayers may find it tough going to support them.  If our society was relatively homogenous -in the sense that almost all pensioners had children paying tax - then it might be an easier sell to the taxpayers of the time.  Conversely, if 40% of pensioners have substantial numbers of children and 40% have none, there is the potential for a 'two tier' society: perhaps more significant tax breaks will be given for the support of one's aged parents, which leaves the childless pensioners out on a limb.   

I don't have any strong views on what - if anything - we should be doing (other than the perhaps predictable one that I sure don't want to rely on the state in my old age - and for that matter, I wouldn't be relying on my kids either), but it is certainly the case that the changes in our society will have long lasting effects, which we cannot predict without good statistical analysis.  Of course, no statistical analysis could have told us ten years ago that we would have 100,000 (very welcome) immigrants in the country - so a lot of this stuff is a bit like long range weather forecasting.  Maybe I am in a small minority in finding it very interesting.

On an entirely subjective note, I know an awful lot of intelligent, high-achieving attractive women in their late 30s and early 40s who are single.  It seems to me that many of them have chosen a single life, rather than just not found the right man.  I think that the 'smugly married club' (of which I admit to being a card carrying member) sometimes fail to respect this choice.  No doubt, of course, there are at least some women in this age group who do perhaps regret giving priority to career at expense of opportunity to have children; but it's not a topic one can generally air in conversation, nor is there any way of getting useful statistics.   All in all,  a topic where it is perhaps wise to walk on eggshells.


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## pc7 (18 Sep 2007)

of my friends the breakdown is as follows - 38 single, 31 single, 29 single, me (month shy of 30 ahhhh) live with boyf, 28 live with boyf, 27 has boyf. So we are an even mix


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## gianni (18 Sep 2007)

MOB said:


> Of course, no statistical analysis could have told us ten years ago that we would have 100,000 (very welcome) immigrants in the country.


 
The figure is closer to 400,000 (still very welcome too!)...


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## homeowner (18 Sep 2007)

Gordanus said:


> So, AAMers, in your personal experience, are half of the women that you know over 35 unmarried? (Let's make this poll as scientific as possible )


 
Unmarried is different to being single.  I know alot of women over 35 who are not married but they are co-habiting with partner and have kids.


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## buzybee (18 Sep 2007)

I only got married when I was 33.  I was single for a long time and it was definitely not by choice.  Some of my friends are in their mid/late 30s and are single.   They are putting effort into attending social clubs, salsa dancing etc.  In other words, they are getting out socially and are hoping to meet someone. I have known them since we were in our twenties, and they have always found it difficult to meet a man for a relationship.

I think people are getting married later these days because one party (often the man) will not commit.  In my experience a lot of men won't even commit to a live in relationship, let alone marriage.

Also men seem to think that a woman can have children at any age, they wait until their late 30s to get married and are then very surprised when their wives can't get pregnant straightaway.  I should know, I am married to one.


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## Gordanus (18 Sep 2007)

MOB said:


> Conversely, if 40% of pensioners have substantial numbers of children and 40% have none, there is the potential for a 'two tier' society: perhaps more significant tax breaks will be given for the support of one's aged parents, which leaves the childless pensioners out on a limb.
> 
> 
> It seems to me that many of them have chosen a single life, rather than just not found the right man.





homeowner said:


> Unmarried is different to being single.  I know alot of women over 35 who are not married but they are co-habiting with partner and have kids.



Rather than starting a dating agency, I just found the statistic unbelievable.....for a variety of reasons.
- If 'single' means unmarried/never married/childless, this is a very high proportion. If it's true, what does it say about Irish men?
- Widows - women tend to be longer living than men, and this will up the average.
- What about single mothers (as they used to be called)?
- and divorced women?

Having said that, as a 40something single (never married) woman myself, most of my friends are also single (never-married) although a couple of them have kids.


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## snuffle (18 Sep 2007)

buzybee said:


> .....I think people are getting married later these days because one party (often the man) will not commit.  In my experience a lot of men won't even commit to a live in relationship, let alone marriage.....



I'd find my experience to be completely different - of my closer friends in the same age bracket as me (I am 28), say, from 25 - 33, only one has remained single until recently, and even he has moved in with his GF in the past year, very soon after they got together in fact (a matter of months) and marriage seems to be on the up again among my wider field of acquaintances after many years of the norm being co-habiting rather than marrying. 
In fact, for many of the relationships among my friends and acquaintances, it was the man doing the asking to move in and proposing and generally moving things along in the relationship, my own DH proposed a LOT sooner than I was prepared for or was expecting (I am talking about a matter of weeks of us becoming a couple), so I don't think you can generalise that it's the male population that are causing the "delay" (I use that word with caution for fear of insinuating people SHOULD be getting married sooner) in people not getting married til their mid 30s.

However I'd find that statistic of 40% to be believable - many people either have not found the right partner, or perhaps did not feel the need to look for one either, or have come out of long term relationships that lasted through their 20s/30s and faltered. I am curious though - any idea of the percentage of men over 35 who are single? I assume it would correlate roughly with the single women as our female/male population is roughly split 51/49 but as another poster said - women do tend in general to live longer than men, so does the 40% include women who have been widowed? Surely they would be counted as married but widowed rather than unmarried? 

And Homeowner is right - unmarried as oposed to single is a very different kettle of fish, with so many co-habiting couples.


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## buzybee (18 Sep 2007)

Snuffle, 

What circles were you moving in, that you were meeting men who wanted to commit to a relationship etc.?

When I was in my late 20s, I was in Junior Chamber.  I also went to nightclubs where there were others my age.  However, the men in the nightclubs still did not really want a relationship, never mind marriage.  I found the men in Junior Chamber were quite shy about making the first move etc, although a few couples got together  & eventually got married.

Looking back, I think I was a little late in joining clubs & taking a proactive approach to meeting people.  I remember when I was 23, I was just going out regularly, hoping a relationship would just 'happen'.  Later I found out that a lot of schoolfriends had met their husbands when they were in their early 20s, and were getting married at 27 or 28.


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## Caveat (18 Sep 2007)

Gordanus said:


> Having said that, as a 40something single (never married) woman myself, most of my friends are also single (never-married) although a couple of them have kids.


 
So what's wrong Gordanus - miffed that you are not 'unique' ?  

Seriously though, as my above post, I'm not really surprised.  Only 2 other people that I know well are married and as most of my close friends are late 30s, in my 'circle' at least, it would be more like 80% of women (and men) are 'single' (although cohabiting).


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## snuffle (18 Sep 2007)

Hi Buzybee, it seems most of my friends met their other halves through friends of friends rather than through the nightclub scene (which seems to often lead to a lot of fleeting connections IYKWIM rather than a long term relationship).    OK I'm going waay off topic here but sure anyway - 

In short, oftentimes they found a lot of common ground with a particular person in extended circles of friends and acquaintances - not through blind date setups but through getting talking to someone they hadn't met before but was included in the general group night out or function or activity by virtue of being friends/colleagues with one person in the group, does that make sense? I don't know if I'm explaining myself properly but I'd imagine the chances of finding someone you click with would be greater if they are friends with someone you yourself count as a friend purely because they would perhaps have similar interests or personalities? 


Another thought that has struck me that may affect the age at which people choose to get married nowadays might be the fact that they are trying to save up for the wedding itself while paying off a mortgage or raising children, as they want the big white wedding and all the trappings - if we had wanted to go down that route we'd still be saving, instead we chose the small and simple option as we wanted to get married sooner rather than later. 

One other thing - I think the idea of being proactive can sometimes work against the person doing it - I found myself, after coming out of a 5 year relationship at 21 (god when I look back now I must have been mad to get so involved so young!) that if I went out "looking" it would come off as obvious and put people off, but if you relax and just enjoy yourself without being out on the pull, that seems to be when "the one" happens along 

anyway, sorry folks for the slightly off topic post,  back on topic now - it is interesting to see the change in trends through the years - my grandparents for eg got married  lateish - they were both hitting 30+, whereas my own parents generation seemed to get married younger - my parents were married at 20, and the swing seems to be back again towards the late 20s to mid 30s for tying the knot (I was 26).

 Is it that in recent years it has become the norm to co-habit as it is now completely acceptable as opposed to co-habiting a few decades ago wher it would have been frowned severely upon, and people are now turning back to marriage once again as it's no longer "unfashionable" to go down the "traditional route" (sorry for the inverted commas, I am doing my best here to not suggest that either choice is more valid than the other).

Interesting topic!


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## BRICKTOP (18 Sep 2007)

My wife (32) has four good friends (all intelligent, attractive, slightly annoying sometimes) in the their early \ mid 30s. They are all single and constantly bemoan their single status and moan that there are no decent men out there. We were at a large wedding a number of weeks ago and it was their mission for the whole day to meet someone.

People sort of laugh at it but for some women its a very serious issue and I have to say I genuinely felt sorry (not in a 'smug married' way) for them at that wedding. Although they'd kill me if they heard me saying that!!


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## zag (18 Sep 2007)

I find the whole thing of people (women, basically) saying things like . . . none of the guys were prepared to make the first move, and there I was waiting for them . . . a bit strange.

Surely either side can move, and sitting there giving out that the others aren't doing anything isn't exactly going to make anything happen.

z


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## ninsaga (18 Sep 2007)

Gordanus said:


> This statistic was given in an article in last Saturday's Irish Times magazine and has left me puzzled.    OK maybe the widows over 60 bump up the average a bit but it still seems extraordinary.   So, AAMers, in your personal experience, are half of the women that you know over 35 unmarried? (Let's make this poll as scientific as possible )



How about narrowing that gap - what % of the over 35's unmarried are Lesbian & have no intention of getting married?


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## PM1234 (18 Sep 2007)

So for accuracy stats should include?
a) cohabiting
b) divorced/separated
c) lesbian
d) widowed
e) unhappily married with big mortgages and kids. 

Here is an actual quote seriously written by an Irish man to a woman about what he really wants to say (but doesn't due to not wanting to shoot himself in the foot) when meeting/dating someone. Charming  To the 40% maybe it is better to be single?

"Can I call you? This is because I fancy you and would like to have sex with you, maybe not on the first date, but as soon as possible thereafter. I am not looking for a serious relationship, by which I mean, I have enough of my own problems, and don’t want to share yours. My longest relationship so far is 6 months, but I am only 49, so there is plenty of time yet."


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## buzybee (19 Sep 2007)

PM1234,

Snap, that is exactly the attitude a lot of men seem to have.  My ex boyfriend was exactly like that.  In fact I had to leave him after 2 yrs, because he was still only meeting twice a week & did not want to progress to living together/getting married.

In fact my now husband had the attitude that 'there's plenty of time for getting married, even though he was 35 when I met him'.  I had to make it clear to him that I am prepared to move on if the relationship doesn't progress within a year or two.  I believe that if two people are serious about each other, then the relationship will progress.  They should either make a commitment or split up.

I know people (esp. the female half of couples) can laugh at a person who is 'actively on the look out' for a special someone.  When people are single in late 20s and in their 30s, they have to act like they 'don't care' about meeting someone.

Somebody said on this thread that a lot of women who remain single from 35 up, are happy and don't want a relationship.  I would think that women who are single in their 30s want to give the impression that they are independent & don't care, as they are afraid of being laughed at if they admit to wanting a close relationship.

Then when the female of mid 30s finally gets into a serious relationship, other females as them 'when are they going to start a family, don't put career before children etc etc.  It is like as if people think that the female of mid 30s actually 'chose' to be single and 'working all hours to pay the full household bills' rather than be in a couple where you have companionship & it is easier to run a house on 2 incomes.

  In fact, an acquaintance was going on & on about me not leaving it too late to have kids etc.  I had to come right out and tell her that I would prefer to have got married at 27 or 28, and that I would prefer to have children right now.  I had to spell it out to her that I did not 'choose' to be completely single until I was nearly 31, and to get married at nearly 34.  Also I had to tell her that I would have preferred to have bought a house as part of a couple when I was 28, instead of buying a house alone & having to take in a stranger as a lodger.

Of course it is better to be completely single than to be in a bad relationship.  A lot of the annoyance comes from the attitude of some people who got married/living together at the 'right age' and can't understand someone being single in their 30s.  In fact some of these people hint that someone of 30s is 'too old' to go to pubs/nightclubs.  I think that some people who settled down at the right age should have more of a 'live & let live' attitude.  I know most people would like a close relationship, but that may just not work out for everyone & people who are single have to make the best of things & be positive.


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## Cahir (19 Sep 2007)

My female friends are between about 24 and 35 and none of them are married.  Only one or two have boyfriends and the rest find it impossible to meet men so I'm not surprised at the statistic.


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## nelly (19 Sep 2007)

buzybee said:


> A lot of the annoyance comes from the attitude of some people who got married/living together at the 'right age' and can't understand someone being single in their 30s.


If all those who got married at the right age, are so thrilled with their lot why do they feel its ok to ridicule those who are paving their own life path?


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## homeowner (19 Sep 2007)

buzybee said:


> It is like as if people think that the female of mid 30s actually 'chose' to be single and 'working all hours to pay the full household bills' rather than be in a couple where you have companionship & it is easier to run a house on 2 incomes.
> 
> ....I had to come right out and tell her that I would prefer to have got married at 27 or 28, and that I would prefer to have children right now. I had to spell it out to her that I did not 'choose' to be completely single until I was nearly 31, and to get married at nearly 34. Also I had to tell her that I would have preferred to have bought a house as part of a couple when I was 28, instead of buying a house alone & having to take in a stranger as a lodger.


 
Well said!   Its as if just because you are in a long term relationship people assume that you arent married because you dont want to be. There are two people in a relationship and it takes both of you to agree to marraige.  I used to get so much hassle from people asking "do you not want to get married, why dont you just go and do it!".....like I could just make it happen on my own whether or not my other half wanted to or not.  Same thing with having a baby.


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## MandaC (19 Sep 2007)

Out of six people in our office - 2 male and four female

Male 60 - Single, no partner
Male 32 - cohabiting
Female 50 - single no partner
Female 43 - single no partner
Female 37 - (ME!!!!) single no partner
Female 26 - single no partner

So out of six, only one has a partner.

We even went speed dating from the office - but the blokes were a complete disaster.

We say we are a complete disfunctional office and you have to be disfunctional to join.

A few of us though were in long term relationships which broke down and are finding it hard to get back out there since times have changed since my dancing days of the 80's.

Maybe we should start askaboutdating?


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## Caveat (19 Sep 2007)

MandaC said:


> Male 60 - Single, no partner
> Male 32 - cohabiting
> Female 50 - single no partner
> Female 43 - single no partner
> ...


 

Sounds like a very interesting mix if you ask me - there must be a sitcom in there somewhere.


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## Jock04 (19 Sep 2007)

A while ago, I was in Galway doing a bit of shopping. 
Being the happy chatty guy I am, I was soon blethering away to the extremely attractive & very pleasant natured assistant who I'd guess was late 20's/early 30's.
As often happens, she got onto the " I love your accent" & "how did you end up here?" stuff. Told her my usual shortened version & her response was along the lines of "oh, I wish I could meet someone like that"

Me - I find it very hard to believe you'd have any problems in that respect.

Her - Yeah, but it's so hard to meet someone you actually like. Most of the guys are just sleazeballs or complete idiots.

Not the only time I've heard such a scathing assessment of available men!
Add that to the guys who'll insist that if you're caught so much as glancing at a woman, you can expect a very frosty or disdainful look back - maybe it's no surprise there's so many singles.
 People don't really like each other!


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## buzybee (19 Sep 2007)

Nelly,

perhaps some of those who got married at the 'right' age, may feel threatened by people who are a bit more unconventional.  They may feel a bit puzzled by people who e.g. are in their 30s, still live at home and seem quite satisfied.  Some of those who got married at the 'right age' may have got married more for companionship, biological clock ticking 'afraid of being single & out there'.  They may secretly envy the 'single' people for making unpopular choices 'i.e. waiting until they meet a special someone & not just settling down with anyone'.


I know of a girl who has a husband & 3 children. She got drunk one night & said that she only married her husband because she thought she couldn't get anyone better & she wanted a home & family!!


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## ninsaga (19 Sep 2007)

PM1234 said:


> Here is an actual quote seriously written by an Irish man to a woman about what he really wants to say ..........
> "Can I call you? This is because I fancy you and would like to have sex with you, maybe not on the first date, but as soon as possible thereafter. I am not looking for a serious relationship, by which I mean, I have enough of my own problems, and don’t want to share yours. My longest relationship so far is 6 months, but I am only 49, so there is plenty of time yet."



eehh ..... I don't understand what the problem is what what he said....... please explain..........


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## PM1234 (19 Sep 2007)

I think you misread my post. This is what he wants to but doesn't say. 

So women go out with him and think they are in a relationship. From the beginning this is not his intention. I know that people can argue that one person shouldn't jump to conclusions but I think its fair to say of both men and women that they reasonably assume in time when they get involved with someone that both people actually want a relationship and one half is not saying what they think the other wants to hear.

Anyway back to the stats!


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## casiopea (20 Sep 2007)

The statistics are looking to be roughly true of my group of friends as well, we are all early to mid thirties.  Out of 8 of us 4 are single.  3 are married, 1 co-habiting.  The 3 who are married are all married to foreigners (incl. myself).


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## potnoodler (20 Sep 2007)

I know of a girl who has a husband & 3 children. She got drunk one night & said that she only married her husband because she thought she couldn't get anyone better & she wanted a home & family!![/quote]




Thats very sad , I pity all in that family


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## potnoodler (20 Sep 2007)

buzybee said:


> Nelly,
> 
> I know of a girl who has a husband & 3 children. She got drunk one night & said that she only married her husband because she thought she couldn't get anyone better & she wanted a home & family!!





Thats very sad , I pity all in that family


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## Purple (20 Sep 2007)

Maybe polygamy is the answer?


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## Gordanus (20 Sep 2007)

It used to be said that there were 5 single women in Dublin for every available man, mainly because the women joined the Civil Service/bank/hospitals and the men emigrated or stayed on the farm........but that was then.   Anyone know how to find out the gender disparity nowadays?


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## gipimann (20 Sep 2007)

CSO - there are reports available from the 2006 census including gender breakdown by county and age. Here's the link.

http://www.cso.ie/census/Census2006_Principal_Demographic_Results.htm

Report number 8 is what you're looking for!


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## Gordanus (21 Sep 2007)

So, according to Table 5, there is a total of c150k women aged 40-44, of whom c27k are single ie never married (but no indication of co-habitation).  Still nowhere near 40%, but I'm not going to tot up the totals for all the over-35s.
Thanks for the link, gipimann!


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