# Ice stick energy system



## shej (11 Oct 2011)

Hi all,

Has anyone any experience of the ICE STICK energy system

I saw article relating to the system on the Sunday Times a few weeks ago which claimed that it could provide over 50% of your heating requirements.

I have a 6 year old build house (c .2750 sq ft) with under floor heating downstairs, radiators upsatirs, water also gas. Annual heating bill is almost 3000e at current rates and with that house would not be 'roasting' - have had several plumbers looking at system all just agree underfloor heating expensive - with proposed increases i predict bill will go above 3000e - article said cost of installing this system would be circa 10,000e but with claimed savings I would have paid for system over 4-5 yrs? or woudl i be better getting walls insulated and replacing windows? 

Is the ice stick more applicable to european countries where there is a 'drier' cold or can it work in our 'damper' cold environment, any information much appreciated?

Thanks shej


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## onq (11 Oct 2011)

For anoyone to begin to offer a competent comment, you'd need to tell us a lot more about the house.
Start with "what is the current specification of the house in terms of insulation?"
What energy rating did it achieve?


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                          as a defence or support - in  and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action     be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                          Real Life with rights to inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter at  hand.


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## shej (12 Oct 2011)

Hi ONQ,

Thanks for the reply, I haven't got an energy rating certificate. The house was a new build in 2005 and had the standard insulation specifications at the time. The attic is fully insulated and the external walls have a 4inch insulated which was reviewed by an ESB HALO energy representative and he said they were sufficently insulated. 
Am I being naive but if the ICE STICK system reduces energy bills by 50%, does it follow that my bills should reduce give or take by 50% irrespective of how my house is insulated?


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## onq (13 Oct 2011)

Hi shej,

You're very welcome.

If you have a link to the ICE STICK system I'll take a look, but I would be wary of claims based on unqualified assurances... 

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                           as a defence or support - in   and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action      be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                           Real Life with rights to  inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter  at  hand.


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## shej (13 Oct 2011)

Hi ONQ,

I trid to attach a link to the website but was prohibited as i haven't posted enough posts, the Irish dristributors of the product are a company called hotfoot and the correct product name is the ice stick heat pump - www hotfoot-heating.com should get to the corretc link

Thanks in advance
shej


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## onq (14 Oct 2011)

Thanks shej.

[broken link removed] for those interested in reading about it.

It looks like the atmospheric version of a ground heat pump.

I seem to recall their efficiency drops like a stone in winter, like most ambient energy sources apart from wind (very variable) and geothermal (very expensive) at that time of year.

I think the consensus among the people I talked with at Plan Expo 2009 was that this was an interesting complement to a broader strategy, but in and of itself was not a complete solution.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                            as a defence or support - in    and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action       be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                            Real Life with rights to   inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter   at  hand.


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## lowCO2design (14 Oct 2011)

shej said:


> The house was a new build in 2005 and had the standard insulation specifications at the time. The attic is fully insulated and the external walls have a 4inch insulated which was reviewed by an ESB HALO energy representative and he said they were sufficently insulated.
> 
> Am I being naive but if the ICE STICK system reduces energy bills by 50%, does it follow that my bills should reduce give or take by 50% irrespective of how my house is insulated?


no way!! yes, naive (no offence)

its interesting the Halo guy said your insulation was adequate given that houses older than 2005 can apply for grants for insulation etc. I have personnel experience of the 'free energy provider surveys' whose surveyors are rushing around not paying enough attention or taking a holistic view and are in many cases not qualified to give such opinions.. 

but I'd be interest to know what else was suggested?

3000€ is an expensive heating bill, but you haven't said what size your house is, what your windows are, ventilation etc.
the COPs of heat pumps can be questionable and often give trouble in colder temperatures when you require the most heat.

if your in a position to fork out 10g for a heat pump or pay 3g a year on heating, then i would recommend you get a good arch and heating engineer in to discuss your options, and to carry-out a decent calculation / energy assessment, possibly including a BER but more of a 'cost/energy saving study' that you can see payback and heating bill reduction.. 

but the bottom line is your houses building fabric/envelope must be properly insulated, with reduced thermal bridging, good windows and air-tightness before things like heat pumps can even claim those sort of efficiencies. not to mention designed, sized and installed correctly with the user knowledgeable about how they should work/function..


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## onq (14 Oct 2011)

Have to agree with everything LCO2Design is saying there, OP.

Technological "add-ons" put your way by an interested party is a guy looking for a sale or commission, not a well worked out integrated long term solution.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                             as a defence or support - in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                             Real Life with rights to    inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter    at  hand.


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## minion (16 Oct 2011)

If these units are as simple as they say then they are not worth 10k.
Also i would think if they were any good that you'd know a lot of people who have them and could ask them.  Id worry about this one.


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## onq (17 Oct 2011)

(nods)

Its clear that few people reading this so far have  any experience of them or I'd expect they'd be in with a comment and I wouldn't be surprised if this was a fairly new product to Ireland.

The first thing I would do is ring up the company to get a list of their supposedly satisfied customers to whom I would then direct some questions about the product.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                              as a defence or support -  in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal         action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                              Real Life with rights to     inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter     at  hand.


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## Leo (18 Oct 2011)

It seems this [broken link removed] has been around for ~20 years. The fact that it's still so difficult find any information on it is not a good sign.
Leo


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## lowCO2design (18 Oct 2011)

Leo said:


> It seems this [broken link removed] has been around for ~20 years. The fact that it's still so difficult find any information on it is not a good sign.
> Leo


I see that their Scandinavian 


the places that heat pumps are selling for '20 years' have energy costs v earnings far lower than here, or if not they have
their homes sealed up way better than ours before they even consider such as system so have a lower heat/HW demand
and form an enviro point of view they have a higher % of electrical energy from renewable's than we do. where as we convert gas/oil to electric meaning that after the primary energy use of a heat pump is calculated its barely more than 1:1
if you had said you have MVHR, loads of insulation and a heating demand of a couple of kw's then maybe, but deal with the rest of your house first!
there have been several companies selling various heat pumps in Ireland recently. the problem is very few have yet got the data or lifespan  guarantee to back up there claims of their equipment in our mild damp overcast country.. i have asked several die-hard fans to please come back and keep us informed of how they get on. over the winter heating season.. this can be easily done with an electricity monitor (they cost circa 50e)

good luck with it


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## onq (18 Oct 2011)

Scanning my Inbox it looks like someone may have sent me a link to this via private e-mail!

I'm off to support a colleague in Court all day tomorrow but I'll look at it on Thursday.

It'll be interesting to assess whether this will translate well to an Irish climate.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                               as a defence or support -   in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal          action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                               Real Life with rights to      inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the          matter     at  hand.


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## Leo (19 Oct 2011)

jleonard said:


> Each Ice Stick has a electricity monitor on it, which in most new builds is monitoring the compressor, backup and circulation pumps. We are therefore able to give accurate data over the last 4 years in Ireland, and longer in other countries.


 
Hi Jleonard, welcome to AAM.

In accordance with the posting guidelines, please provide full disclosure of your association with this product.

Also, please be aware of our rules on advertising and stick to factual responses to questions posed without resorting to marketting type material.
Leo


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## Leo (20 Oct 2011)

jleonard said:


> Thank you. I am the managing director of Hotfoot and we distribute the Ice Stick. I will only be posting facts that I know to be true.


 
Thanks Jleonard.
Leo


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## lowCO2design (20 Oct 2011)

JLeonard, 

the tech data, any studies/ peer reviewed or what ever verification you can offer

have you received eu/iab/bba certification (i appreciate it can be expensive but..) 

and what you can offer with regards parameters for the studies. ie should this system be only installed in well insulated homes etc... 

thanks in advance


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## shej (22 Oct 2011)

Hi all,

Thanks for all the information, but am as confused as ever, from the posts I think I should get a heating engineer to survey house and take my options from there - would anyone recommend an independent heting engineer who could give me impartial advice?
I still think the ice stick might be an option but probably needs to be properly insulated, will probably contact supplier and ask some of their Irish customers their experience

Thanks shej
John


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## onq (23 Oct 2011)

Hi shej,

You need to appoint a surveyor with a thermal imaging camera to assess your house.

Contact Property Health Check and ask for Peter Sweeney.

No business connection, but I happen to know he has a thermal imaging camera and his rates seem reasonable.
*Lo-call 1890-787839*

 Dublin,  01-6281040      (Property Health Check,  Ballydowd Grove, Lucan, Co. Dublin)
 Kerry,   064-6641980    (Property Health Check,  Bellheights, Kenmare, Co. Kerry)
  e-mail: info@propertyhealthcheck.ie

After that you may need to discuss means to improve it with a BER assessor.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                                as a defence or support -    in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal           action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                                Real Life with rights to       inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the           matter     at  hand.


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