# Employer forcing staff to take holidays - Such a pain!



## Trafford (25 Oct 2007)

_split from thread in Jobs/Careers. _can company force Annual Leave to be taken at a particular time?



Pique318 said:


> If they tell you well in advance so that you can set that day aside then you really have no comeback.
> 
> If you're new and weren't made aware of it when you submitted your holiday request, then you should be able to get around it....depending on your supervisor.


 
Oh yes, I agree absolutely, but it's still a pain.


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## sam h (25 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*

There can be pro's to being able to "take" holidays when you want.  My company used to work over Xmas & New years and for 4 years in a row I ended up having to cover Xmas eve and Stephens day to let the country staff travel.  Naturally


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## Pique318 (25 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



sam h said:


> I ended up having to cover Xmas eve and Stephens day to let the country staff travel. Naturally


 
Darn tootin'


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## Trafford (25 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*

Re. Country people going home:

I had to work Christmas day once in a job in Dublin because a Dublin woman wouldn't swap with me. I'm from the west of Ireland, was 20, homesick and lonely....I can't even think about it now without getting depressed.


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## batty (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Re. Country people going home:
> 
> I had to work Christmas day once in a job in Dublin because a Dublin woman wouldn't swap with me. I'm from the west of Ireland, was 20, homesick and lonely....I can't even think about it now without getting depressed.


 
Why should she swap with you?  Is she not entitled to her leave too? Surely a fairer way to decide is on service and/or a rota?


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## Trafford (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



batty said:


> Why should she swap with you? Is she not entitled to her leave too? Surely a fairer way to decide is on service and/or a rota?


 
Because it was Christmas and it would have been a nice thing to do. I would have done it if the tables were reversed. She gets up, sees her kids, has her santy time, drives into work, comes home to her family, has her cosy family Christmas dinner. 
I got up in a cold damp bedsit, with nobody to wish me a happy Christmas, no friends or family in this strange city, walked the 4 miles to work because there was no buses and I was a kid in first job so no car or money for taxis. Went home, sat in my cold damp bedsit and cried my eyes out with lonliness, thinking of my family all gathered together for Christmas. 

It was the millenium, so I had offered to work New Year's eve, 1999, for which there was no extra cash or anything like there were in some work places, if she would do Christmas for me. I thought it would have been a fair swap really. I was prepared to miss the millenium celebrations with family, just to spend Christmas with them.

Her actual argument was similar to yours "you want to see your family on Christmas day, and so do I, so I'm not swapping". She failed to notice that she would see her family that day, whereas I couldn't. We only had to do a half day too, for which I lost all of Christmas.  Didn't blame work at all. They needed the cover, and on the weekly rotation I was rostered on. My manager was shocked that I couldn't get the swap.


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## Pique318 (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

Jaysus Trafford, you must've been making voodoo dolls of that 'female dog' !!!
What a crappy thing to do !!!

Karma.....bet she got what was coming to her !


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## Purple (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Because it was Christmas and it would have been a nice thing to do. I would have done it if the tables were reversed. She gets up, sees her kids, has her santy time, drives into work, comes home to her family, has her cosy family Christmas dinner.
> I got up in a cold damp bedsit, with nobody to wish me a happy Christmas, no friends or family in this strange city, walked the 4 miles to work because there was no buses and I was a kid in first job so no car or money for taxis. Went home, sat in my cold damp bedsit and cried my eyes out with lonliness, thinking of my family all gathered together for Christmas.
> 
> It was the millenium, so I had offered to work New Year's eve, 1999, for which there was no extra cash or anything like there were in some work places, if she would do Christmas for me. I thought it would have been a fair swap really. I was prepared to miss the millenium celebrations with family, just to spend Christmas with them.
> ...



But you choose to work on the other side of the country. That's hardly her problem.


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## Nige (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

Yeah, cause there are great career prospects, especially for graduates, in the West!

My parents lived over 100 miles away from their homeplace. My father had a job that must be manned over Christmas and in 32 years in the job only had to work one Christmas Day. Most people are very good about letting those who have to travel home, Trafford was very unlucky.


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Because it was Christmas and it would have been a nice thing to do. I would have done it if the tables were reversed. She gets up, sees her kids, has her santy time, drives into work, comes home to her family, has her cosy family Christmas dinner.
> I got up in a cold damp bedsit, with nobody to wish me a happy Christmas, no friends or family in this strange city, walked the 4 miles to work because there was no buses and I was a kid in first job so no car or money for taxis. Went home, sat in my cold damp bedsit and cried my eyes out with lonliness, thinking of my family all gathered together for Christmas.
> 
> It was the millenium, so I had offered to work New Year's eve, 1999, for which there was no extra cash or anything like there were in some work places, if she would do Christmas for me. I thought it would have been a fair swap really. I was prepared to miss the millenium celebrations with family, just to spend Christmas with them.
> ...



Take it to _Letting Off Steam _perhaps?


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## Trafford (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



ClubMan said:


> Take it to _Letting Off Steam _perhaps?


 
Haha! Well it was 8 years ago so plenty of steam has been let off by now!


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## Trafford (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Purple said:


> But you choose to work on the other side of the country. That's hardly her problem.


 
Thanks for giving me a laugh!


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

OK - moved to _LOS_.


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## jrewing (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Purple said:


> But you choose to work on the other side of the country. That's hardly her problem.


 
Jaysus, have a heart....


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## Trafford (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



jrewing said:


> Jaysus, have a heart....


 
Indeed. The wench from work isn't the only Scrooge around it seems. 

Believe me, I'd be back in the west as quick as a flash if only there was a chance of a career for me. One of the biggest unspoken about tragedies of this generation is the fact that thousands of people who availed of the free 3rd level education now find themselves hours from home and family, mortgaged to the hilt on a shoebox, and facing a dismal prospect of settling down in over crowded urban areas, when they always saw themselves back at their rural roots. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing really. 

It's ironic that education can trap you sometimes, rather than set you free....


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## Purple (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Indeed. The wench from work isn't the only Scrooge around it seems.
> 
> Believe me, I'd be back in the west as quick as a flash if only there was a chance of a career for me. One of the biggest unspoken about tragedies of this generation is the fact that thousands of people who availed of the free 3rd level education now find themselves hours from home and family, mortgaged to the hilt on a shoebox, and facing a dismal prospect of settling down in over crowded urban areas, when they always saw themselves back at their rural roots. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing really.
> 
> It's ironic that education can trap you sometimes, rather than set you free....


A little learning is a dangerous thing


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## pinkyBear (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

Sorry Trafford - but I think u have a few issues here - there is nothing really stopping u from jacking it all in in Dublin and moving to the west, there are oppertunities there and businesses, though you probably would have to take a cut in salary...


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## car (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> It's ironic that education can trap you sometimes, rather than set you free....


I normally dont post in LOS but have to say I find this comment ridiculous and would think it a friday afternoon attempt at trolling if I hadnt read the build up to it.   
If you think your education has trapped you where you are, youve got the wrong education or you need to get another one.     
Someone posted on AAM many moons ago that they had been told by a wise professor that to do everything you can to be happy by the time youre 40 ,ie, have your career, family, home all in situ.  If you havent done it by 40 the reasoning is that you arent going to get there.  If I read correctly that youre about 28, you've got ample time in your life to change it.


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## Trafford (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



pinkyBear said:


> Sorry Trafford - but I think u have a few issues here - there is nothing really stopping u from jacking it all in in Dublin and moving to the west, there are oppertunities there and businesses, though you probably would have to take a cut in salary...


 

I've been searching, believe me. Opportunities are much slower to come up, but one day I believe it will happen. You have to stay focused on what you want in life, or else how do you stay going?


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## Pique318 (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

The problem that has been evident for years is that all the focus in attracting major investment is to the Dublin area.

IT companies (for example) are few and far between in the rest of the country and employ far fewer people. For example, if I do a job search, the vast majority of those jobs returned are in Dublin. Not much hope for someone from the west to work in their chosen career near to their roots.

Until this is changed Dublin is gonna grow more and more sprawled (Dublin 92...or The Town Formerly Known As Athlone, anyone ?).

To Hell or to Connaught indeed !!!


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## car (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



> IT companies (for example) are few and far between in the rest of the country and employ far fewer people. For example, if I do a job search, the vast majority of those jobs returned are in Dublin. Not much hope for someone from the west to work in their chosen career near to their roots.
> 
> Until this is changed Dublin is gonna grow more and more sprawled (Dublin 92...or The Town Formerly Known As Athlone, anyone ?).



There are more ways then the job sites of attracting attention of IT companies.  I work for a large IT corporation.  The last 4 people we've taken on in our area were either through word of mouth or CVs posted directly to us from our HR section when the jobs were posted internally. The jobs were never advertised externally.    
Although its not always practical, we have 2 people working for us who live in Galway and Roscommon respectively and telework 3 days a week.   In todays IT environment you could do worse then speak with your boss about it to see if its viable.


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## pinkyBear (26 Oct 2007)

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Absolutely - one of the guys I work with relaocated to prague..Once the company trust you...


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## shanegl (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Purple said:


> But you choose to work on the other side of the country. That's hardly her problem.


 
I absolutely agree. I'm sick of being guilted into working over the Christmas period to cover other people who want to travel home. And just because I happen to live closer to work.


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## Purple (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



Pique318 said:


> The problem that has been evident for years is that all the focus in attracting major investment is to the Dublin area.
> 
> IT companies (for example) are few and far between in the rest of the country and employ far fewer people. For example, if I do a job search, the vast majority of those jobs returned are in Dublin. Not much hope for someone from the west to work in their chosen career near to their roots.
> 
> ...


I've a pain in my backside hearing people moan about "No investment west of the Shannon". The reality is that there is far more IDA money and government investment per head of population west of the Shannon. 
If you wanted a job in Galway you could have got into the medical device sector, if it's Cork it could have been pharmaceuticals etc. 
If a person from Dublin gets a specialised qualification in coronary stent manufacture do you think it would be reasonable for them to complain about having to work in Galway?


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## Crugers (26 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> I got up in a cold damp bedsit, with nobody to wish me a happy Christmas, no friends or family in this strange city, walked the 4 miles to work because there was no buses and I was a kid in first job so no car or money for taxis. Went home, sat in my cold damp bedsit and cried my eyes out with lonliness, thinking of my family all gathered together for Christmas.


 
At the risk of compounding the issues you have about the final Christmas of the Millennium....

Emmmm!
Since all your family were gathered 'together' for Christmas, on the other side of the country, why didn't one of them volunteer to do the long drive to bring you back to the bosom of your family?


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## Sunny (27 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Crugers said:


> At the risk of compounding the issues you have about the final Christmas of the Millennium....
> 
> Emmmm!
> Since all your family were gathered 'together' for Christmas, on the other side of the country, why didn't one of them volunteer to do the long drive to bring you back to the bosom of your family?


 
 

I for one try to help people out if they have to travel home for Xmas but I agree with the posters that country people seem to automatically think they are entitled to the time off and the Dublin based workers will cover for them. Everyone has families.


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## Killter (28 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

I know one or two of the big American companies here in Galway close down for race week (it makes sense as the roads come to a stop) forcing all employees to holiday at the same time.

best of luck


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## Trafford (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Sunny said:


> I for one try to help people out if they have to travel home for Xmas but I agree with the posters that country people seem to automatically think they are entitled to the time off and the Dublin based workers will cover for them. Everyone has families.


 
It's not really time off as in others have to do more work, it's more about when the work is done that suits everyone.

Regarding the work west of the shannon, I wasn't going to become a chemist just so that I would be able to work nearer home. I am in the career I am in because I am interested in it, good at it, have worked hard for it etc. I wouln't have a clue about anything to do with science and also I wasn't to know back in the 90s that celtic tiger would occur and all jobs would be in the east. I'm just thankful though that I didn't have to emigrate out of Ireland like the generations before me.

What I mentioned about education supposed to give you freedom and options was borne out of a consideration of the majority of my classmates from school. A lot of them never went to 3rd level but live, work and raise their families in their home areas. Their skills are employable at home whereas the skills I have acquired are not.


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## Purple (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Regarding the work west of the shannon, I wasn't going to become a chemist just so that I would be able to work nearer home. I am in the career I am in because I am interested in it, good at it, have worked hard for it etc. I wouln't have a clue about anything to do with science and also I wasn't to know back in the 90s that celtic tiger would occur and all jobs would be in the east. I'm just thankful though that I didn't have to emigrate out of Ireland like the generations before me.


 So there were more opportunities for chemists where you live (west of the Shannon) before the Celtic tiger? 



Trafford said:


> What I mentioned about education supposed to give you freedom and options was borne out of a consideration of the majority of my classmates from school. A lot of them never went to 3rd level but live, work and raise their families in their home areas. Their skills are employable at home whereas the skills I have acquired are not.


 Again, did you think that you were going to work in your locality when you choose that career?


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## Past30Now (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Because it was Christmas and it would have been a nice thing to do. I would have done it if the tables were reversed. She gets up, sees her kids, has her santy time, drives into work, comes home to her family, has her cosy family Christmas dinner.
> I got up in a cold damp bedsit, with nobody to wish me a happy Christmas, no friends or family in this strange city, walked the 4 miles to work because there was no buses and I was a kid in first job so no car or money for taxis. Went home, sat in my cold damp bedsit and cried my eyes out with lonliness, thinking of my family all gathered together for Christmas.
> 
> It was the millenium, so I had offered to work New Year's eve, 1999, for which there was no extra cash or anything like there were in some work places, if she would do Christmas for me. I thought it would have been a fair swap really. I was prepared to miss the millenium celebrations with family, just to spend Christmas with them.
> ...



The thinking behind this post leaves me baffled.  No thought is given to the fact that this woman had a christmas dinner to prepare, that christmas is the biggest day of the year for a parent with kids, that new years eve (particularly the millennium new years eve) becomes a non event as you grow older.  Nobody wants to work Christmas day - I assume the shocked manager didn't offer to do your shift - and I have tonnes of sympathy for somebody stuck in Dublin on their first job on Christmas Day without their family, but you can't single out any one co-worker.  Everybody has their own priorities, and generally the newbie in the office isn't one of them.

I appreciate that it took place a number of years ago, but your co-worker should not be the source of your annoyance.

Sorry.

Past30


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## Jock04 (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

Couple of points...........

The building trade, which as we all know is a major employer, lays out the entire years' holidays, with no flexible days at all. You want a Friday off to go to a wedding or whatever, you lose a days pay.

I spent Christmas day on an oil rig 8 years in a row, loads of New Years Days and indeed the Millenium New Year, when I worked from 6am as normal, but still had to be up for "the bells" to see if Y2K was going to crash all our computer systems rolleyes: )

Did I like it? No.  Did it go with the territory? Yes.  
On a couple of those Christmas's, I was rostered to be off, but gave my opposite number the holiday as he had a wife & young family.  But potentially you could be rostered to work Christmas day for many years, and if you don't like it...........you can always work elsewhere.


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## Trafford (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Purple said:


> So there were more opportunities for chemists where you live (west of the Shannon) before the Celtic tiger?
> 
> Well according to someone's post above yes. Somebody mentioned that this industry is strong in the West, hence my response.
> 
> Again, did you think that you were going to work in your locality when you choose that career?


 
Yes.


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## Trafford (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Purple said:


> So there were more opportunities for chemists where you live (west of the Shannon) before the Celtic tiger?
> 
> Again, did you think that you were going to work in your locality when you choose that career?


 


Past30Now said:


> The thinking behind this post leaves me baffled. No thought is given to the fact that this woman had a christmas dinner to prepare, that christmas is the biggest day of the year for a parent with kids, that new years eve (particularly the millennium new years eve) becomes a non event as you grow older. Nobody wants to work Christmas day - I assume the shocked manager didn't offer to do your shift - and I have tonnes of sympathy for somebody stuck in Dublin on their first job on Christmas Day without their family, but you can't single out any one co-worker. Everybody has their own priorities, and generally the newbie in the office isn't one of them.
> 
> I appreciate that it took place a number of years ago, but your co-worker should not be the source of your annoyance.
> 
> ...


 
My manager worked with me. All other staff that day were Dublin based. It was a 4 hour shift, thus allowing her time to prepare dinner, eat it etc. 

She was an awful wagon incidentally, and was let go shortly into the New Year. This would have been very much in character for her!


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## Trafford (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



Jock04 said:


> Couple of points...........
> 
> The building trade, which as we all know is a major employer, lays out the entire years' holidays, with no flexible days at all. You want a Friday off to go to a wedding or whatever, you lose a days pay.
> 
> ...


 
Similarly with doctors, nurses, gardaí, fireman etc. I'm sure.


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## casiopea (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



Past30Now said:


> The thinking behind this post leaves me baffled.  No thought is given to the fact that this woman had a christmas dinner to prepare, that christmas is the biggest day of the year for a parent with kids, that new years eve (particularly the millennium new years eve) becomes a non event as you grow older.  Nobody wants to work Christmas day - I assume the shocked manager didn't offer to do your shift - and I have tonnes of sympathy for somebody stuck in Dublin on their first job on Christmas Day without their family, but you can't single out any one co-worker.  Everybody has their own priorities, and generally the newbie in the office isn't one of them.
> 
> I appreciate that it took place a number of years ago, but your co-worker should not be the source of your annoyance.
> 
> ...



Guys, (not directed solely at Past30 but to all posters who seem baffled by Traffords post), I dont understand why so many of you are baffled or challenged this post by Trafford?  He recapped (albeit slightly off topic) an event that happened earlier in his career that he regrets/has bad memories about, that doesnt mean his regret is reasonable or even right (sorry Trafford) but its just his personal memory on how he dealt with the situation and the consequence (christmas day on his own in a bedsit).  I dont really understand why so many posters are picking up on it.  Surely we all have moments/conversations/confrontations in our early careers that we look back and think (rightly or wrongly) - I wish I dealt with that differently.  This happens to be Traffords.

To the OP and back on topic; yes this happens in our organisation and yes it bugs me too!


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## Trafford (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer Forcing staff to take holidays?*



casiopea said:


> Guys, (not directed solely at Past30 but to all posters who seem baffled by Traffords post), I dont understand why so many of you are baffled or challenged this post by Trafford? He recapped (albeit slightly off topic) an event that happened earlier in his career that he regrets/has bad memories about, that doesnt mean his regret is reasonable or even right (sorry Trafford) but its just his personal memory on how he dealt with the situation and the consequence (christmas day on his own in a bedsit). I dont really understand why so many posters are picking up on it. Surely we all have moments/conversations/confrontations in our early careers that we look back and think (rightly or wrongly) - I wish I dealt with that differently. This happens to be Traffords.
> 
> To the OP and back on topic; yes this happens in our organisation and yes it bugs me too!


 
Was actually just thinking the same thing over the past few minutes. There has been a huge reaction to this, and it is something which is barely on my radar any more! 

Also, good point about it being a bit off-topic, and my apologies to the OP for leading this thread down a different path, albeit unintentional.


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## Jock04 (30 Oct 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*



Trafford said:


> Similarly with doctors, nurses, gardaí, fireman etc. I'm sure.


 

Indeed.

The point being that you may have to work some days which you would prefer not to.
Something to consider when making career/employer/job location choices.


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## GarBow (4 Nov 2007)

*Re: Employer forcing staff to take holidays?*

I work in the construction industry and until moving to this country basically had the choice of my own annual leave bar a few days over the xmas period when most building sites would shut down (maybe 5 days out of 23). 

This was fine when i was a single guy and could afford to go abroad when i wanted. The CIF hollidays here now dictate (in most circumstances) that i take the last week in july and the first in august as my annual leave, not to mention a week over easter. The three most expensive weeks to go away anywhere in or out of Ireland.

In my opinion this works well for the construction industry as an industry  i.e. suppliers, contractors, sub contractors can all close at the same time.
But not so well for the workers themselves.

Having said this, i chose to work in this industry, i understood the terms of employment and i would not expect any dispensation for the fact i may be from elsewhwere. And to be honest, the "i'm heading back to Cork for the weekend so i'm off early today" thing really winds me up.


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## Trafford (5 Nov 2007)

I suppose the "leaving early because I'm heading home to Cork" thing is ok if you've been putting in long hours all week or something. 
I work in banking and due to a transaction closing early in a week I had to work over the weekend coming up to it. I worked 12 days straight on this deal, average about 9-10 hours each day. We don't get overtime or time off in lieu or anything - it's just the nature of the job and part of what you sign up to. Anyway, I was heading home for the Oct bank holiday which was the following weekend, so I left at 3pm on the Friday. In that circumstance I felt it was ok. Usually though, your basic hours are your basic hours and I strictly adhere to them. 
I have a 4 hour commute but will never allow myself to squeeze my working day to suit myself.


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