# Re-insulate



## alert (28 Feb 2007)

Hi guys,

My house was built two years ago, unfortunately only white styrofoam insulation was put in the cavity. I am intersted in installing more insulation in the cavity but have a problem as the front, (ie North-facing) of the house is stone-cladded.

Would anyone know of any system which would allow me to increase the insulation without having to rip out stones? 

Thank you,

ALERT.


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## ClubMan (28 Feb 2007)

alert said:


> unfortunately only white styrofoam insulation was put in the cavity.


Why unfortunately? Isn't such an approach pretty effective insulation?


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## alert (28 Feb 2007)

Hi Clubman,

I had thought that the 50/75mm Kingspan double-foil back was more efficient, is this not the case? 

At the moment the house just doesn't seem to be holding the heat, I have GSHP UFH system and the heat-pump seems to have been on non-stop, (certainly 80% of the time), day and night, since November, (dreading the ESB bill, night-rate included!). 

I was figuring that this constant operation of said heat-pummp may have been due to poor insulation, perhaps this is normal, does anyone know?

Thanks.


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## ClubMan (28 Feb 2007)

alert said:


> I had thought that the 50/75mm Kingspan double-foil back was more efficient, is this not the case?


Dunno - I'm no expert on this but...


> At the moment the house just doesn't seem to be holding the heat, I have GSHP UFH system and the heat-pump seems to have been on non-stop, (certainly 80% of the time), day and night, since November, (dreading the ESB bill, night-rate included!).
> 
> I was figuring that this constant operation of said heat-pummp may have been due to poor insulation, perhaps this is normal, does anyone know?


 ... before you go replacing the intra wall insulation perhaps there is more bang for your buck to be gained by checking the attic insulation, (double glazed?) windows/doors/vents/chimney for draught proofing and insulation etc. first if you have not checked these out already?


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## alert (28 Feb 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Dunno - I'm no expert on this but...
> ... before you go replacing the intra wall insulation perhaps there is more bang for your buck to be gained by checking the attic insulation, (double glazed?) windows/doors/vents/chimney for draught proofing and insulation etc. first if you have not checked these out already?


 
Thanks Clubman I think I will do this first, .. I have been particulary concerned with the double-glazed wooden windows, (they always seem very cold), and there are frightening draughts coming under the doors, (house not near finished yet!), have already "closed" all the 6-inch diameter vents and stuffed insulation up the chimneys. Now all I need is a shop that sells those little "draught joss-sticks" to determine exact location of draughts


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## serotoninsid (28 Feb 2007)

alert said:


> Thanks Clubman I think I will do this first, .. I have been particulary concerned with the double-glazed wooden windows, (they always seem very cold), and there are frightening draughts coming under the doors, (house not near finished yet!), have already "closed" all the 6-inch diameter vents and stuffed insulation up the chimneys. Now all I need is a shop that sells those little "draught joss-sticks" to determine exact location of draughts


Draughts are more likely to be a problem as opposed to insufficient wall insulation. If the envelope of the dwelling is not airtight, the energy efficiency of the dwelling will reduce dramatically regardless of whether you hvae the best wall insulation available.

Be careful with regard to stuffing insulation up the chimneys - chimneys still need to be ventilated. Otherwise, you will have problems with damp. Google 'chimney balloon' - the cheap and cheerful solution to that problem.
I wouldnt be too concerned with whats designed to provide ventiliation ie. blocking vents. Its more a case of tracking down heat loss through openings that have not been designed for.

The easiest starting points that dont cost a lot would be;
-Attic insulation - as clubman mentioned. Make sure its uniform ie. no spots left uncovered and don't store stuff on top of it.
- Seals on doors/trap door etc. minimal cost involved there.
- Check all windows to see if they are properly sealed.





[broken link removed]


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## alert (28 Feb 2007)

Thank you Serotoninsid.

Could you recommend the most efficient method of determing where draughts come from? I think that there "joss stick" or herbal cigarette smoke blowers on the market but I have never seen one for sale. I saw what looked like a soldering iron with smoke coming off it on "Teach Glas" on TG4 but didn't catch the product's name.


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## ClubMan (28 Feb 2007)

serotoninsid said:


> I wouldnt be too concerned with whats designed to provide ventiliation ie. blocking vents. Its more a case of tracking down heat loss through openings that have not been designed for.


I'm still fascinated/perturbed by the tendancy some people (not necessarily you _sid_) have towards sealing up wall vents - they are there for a reason as far as I know. I know first hand of people who have died from carbon monoxoid poisioning due to faulty gas appliances and inadequate house ventilation so be careful when sealing vents!


> The easiest starting points that dont cost a lot would be;
> -Attic insulation - as clubman mentioned. Make sure its uniform ie. no spots left uncovered


Other than under the water tank which should be left uncovered in most or all cases.


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## ClubMan (28 Feb 2007)

alert said:


> Could you recommend the most efficient method of determing where draughts come from?


A candle!?


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## serotoninsid (28 Feb 2007)

> Could you recommend the most efficient method of determing where draughts come from? I think that there "joss stick" or herbal cigarette smoke blowers on the market but I have never seen one for sale. I saw what looked like a soldering iron with smoke coming off it on "Teach Glas" on TG4 but didn't catch the product's name.


You could have a 'blower door test' carried out (google it for more info).  Basically, this involves blocking all the openings that are designed to be there ie. vents, chimneys, etc. - then using a fan to expell air from the dwelling.  You can use smoke sticks/smoke puffers but probably the best way is to place your hand around all window/door frames, wall joinings etc -  if theres air being sucked in you'll notice it straight way.
Alternatively, you could get someone to carry out a thermal imaging analysis.  They will supply you with a report showing where heat loss is occuring.  Thermal imaging can also show up any inconsistencies in the wall  insulation and determine if there are any issues in terms of moisture ingress.


ClubMan said:


> I'm still fascinated/perturbed by the tendancy some people (not necessarily you _sid_) have towards sealing up wall vents


Agreed. Probably wasnt clear in what I said.  Vents are there for a reason and shouldnt be blocked.  Whilst the irish standard for ventilation is far from the best (heat recovery system in an airtight dwelling would be better), we still shouldnt block them.


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Feb 2007)

> Alternatively, you could get someone to carry out a thermal imaging analysis.



Sid

Can you recommend anyone in Dublin who does this. Roughly how much does it cost?

Brendan


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## serotoninsid (28 Feb 2007)

@Brendan:  I'm not going to recommend anyone as I have no personal experience.  However, a google search on 'thermal imaging ireland' or similar will throw up some service providers.
My understanding is that a survey costs approx. €500 (if anyones interested get some quotes as I've just got anecdotal reports on this price right now)  Its not cheap I know but bear in mind the equipment costs €10k!

If the OP or anyone else here goes down this road, please come back and post your experiences ie. what you got for your money. I may be offering this service myself in the not too distant future - probably offering both 'blower door testing' & thermal imaging survey combined.


<EDIT> According to  from last month, a thermal imaging survey in this instance cost €570.</EDIT>


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## usrbin (1 Mar 2007)

alert said:


> I had thought that the 50/75mm Kingspan double-foil back was more efficient, is this not the case?


 
Have this very strong impression too, from several interested parties, engineers, builders - but not the builder who built our house, of course.  But as previous posters have said, this factor alone is unlikely to cause the problems you described.


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## serotoninsid (2 Mar 2007)

Nick Lawson said:


> With regard to thermography and fan pressurisation testing, beware! I used a prima facia professional company that I found online; highly qualified personnel and an informative website. I had a couple of issues when it was being carried out but afterwards did my own investigations and discovered that it had not been carried out correctly. Ensure that the company is prepared to carry out the test in accordance with best practice



Just curious as to their shortcomings - how exactly did they deviate from best practice?


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## easylife (20 Nov 2007)

Hi Nick

Can I ask you how much this cost and what area is it in?
I want to do the same in a 3 bed semi 100sqm in Cork



Nick Lawson said:


> Blown cavity wall insulation is the most viable solution. Had this done recently as there was only 60mm expanded polystyrene in the cavity leaving a 40mm gap. The cavity is now full and it has alleviated the problem.
> 
> With regard to thermography and fan pressurisation testing, beware! I used a prima facia professional company that I found online; highly qualified personnel and an informative website. I had a couple of issues when it was being carried out but afterwards did my own investigations and discovered that it had not been carried out correctly. Ensure that the company is prepared to carry out the test in accordance with best practice
> GIR064 Post construction testing document [broken link removed]
> ...


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## HappyBudda (20 Nov 2007)

Check this infra-red draught detector thingy:
https://www.doctorenergy.co.uk/acatalog/Infrared_Thermography.html


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## JD77 (4 Feb 2008)

I have been advised to get cavity wall insulation as my house (30 years old) is extremely cold and the radiators are all high performing and changing them will not make any difference.

Can any one recommend the best type and also a supplier in Cork?

Cheers,

J


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## sydthebeat (4 Feb 2008)

JD77... 
are you talking about pumped-in insulation.
Ecobead and Polypearl are two companies.. there may be more.


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## JD77 (4 Feb 2008)

thanks syd yes its the pumped in stuff thanks for those i will check them out......google produced the following 2 

www.warmfill.com and [broken link removed] 

any recommendation with regard to beads or foam?


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## Bluebells (5 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Other than under the water tank which should be left uncovered in most or all cases.


 Clubman, why should the area under the tank be left uncovered and in which cases should it not?
Thanks. Its very handy to know these little things!


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## Leo (6 Feb 2008)

Under the tank should be clear so that the heat from below raises the water temperature in cold weather.
Leo


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## nt00deep (6 Feb 2008)

I know the original post is quite old at this stage, but one point in there that remains open I think relates to the suitability of stone-cladded walls to the use of the pumped insulation solutions.

Does it require removing stone, or are the holes so small the refill afterwards can be easily disguised ?


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## Simeon (6 Feb 2008)

In any of the stone cladding ads that I've seen, they state the insulating properties of this type of work. But that was then and this is now.


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## steuart (24 Oct 2011)

As an architect, I designed built my house in 1966 with UF cavity wall insulation. Unfortunately this degrades and is now very powdery. No cavity wall firm will re-insulate when they know that there is already a filling. However, I'm sure that modern cavity filling will just push replace the old UF. How do I get anyone to do that?


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## onq (24 Oct 2011)

What is vaity filling?


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## lowCO2design (24 Oct 2011)

steuart said:


> As an architect, I designed built my house in 1966 with UF cavity wall insulation. Unfortunately this degrades and is now very powdery. No cavity wall firm will re-insulate when they know that there is already a filling. However, I'm sure that modern cavity filling will just push replace the old UF. How do I get anyone to do that?



anyone want to start a business with a 'super vacuum machine', cleaning out botched cavity insulation jobs.. now there's a business that will grow...


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## onq (24 Oct 2011)

"vaity" --> "cavity" ! D'oh...

I was nearly sure it was some new Hi-Tech creeping nanomachine thing from the States under a proprietary name!

However the leap has merit - something that crawls the cavity and clears it might work better than a "sucky" solution.


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