# Review of Posting Guidelines on Askaboutmoney



## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

This useful discussion was started off by Legend99 and descended quickly into fighting and name calling, all of which has been deleted. 

We don't discuss individual editing or moderating decisions, but we are happy, from time to time, to review the moderation policy. This is a good thread to do it in.

Please keep the discussion civil. 

My personal view is that Askaboutmoney is a serious questions and answers forum. Those of us who wish to ask and answer such questions find the rubbishy posts very distracting. I believe that they damage the reputation of Askaboutmoney. 

We can ban them altogether. Or if there is a huge demand for them, we can include them in the Craic. 

But why can those who see some value or entertainment in these posts not go to P45.ie where there are thousands of such musings? 

If we can have a civil discussion, the moderators will review the views expressed and make the final decision. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Can we keep the discussion on topic please?  We are trying to inform the moderatorship policy of Askaboutmoney. Don't use the thread just to abuse other posters and raise all your complaints.  

I will review the thread later and delete all posts which make no contribution to the subject matter on hand. 

Could anyone who is attacked please hold back from responding in kind? We don't want another meaningless discussion. Abusive posts will be deleted. I will not be wasting my time editing out the offensive bits. The entire post will be deleted. 

Brendan


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## kazbah (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Firstly I wouldn't visit so regularly if there wasn't also an entertainment aspect to the site.

Secondly I do not like the way posts are edited or deleted without a PM to say what has been done.  I have often had the titles of my threads changed.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

AAM is now a big place. I am sure that the work load on the moderators has grown as the site grew. Because of that I am very slow to criticise how they run the site. Having said that there is really very little that I see to complain about. There have been threads closed that I was enjoying but I could always see the reason why they were closed (even if I did not fully agree with it). The one thing I have not seen is moderators abusing their position to score points of win arguments with other posters. Some have been accused of this and I find that utterly unfair. 
What I would say to moderators is that even though you guys do most (if not all) of the work here there is a real sense of community on AAM and if posters like Lenend99 etc didn’t care they wouldn’t be posting on this thread. I do think that moderators can be a bit defensive, and in this case a bit flippant, about concerns voiced by people who have been contributing here for a long time. I understand why moderators must get a pain in their backsides from time to time but a bit more understanding might not go astray. 
In the few years that I have been posting here the site has grown and developed and I think that icantbelieveit makes some good points in his/her earlier post.


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## delgirl (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Why not extend the LOS and Craic rules to the entire 'Don't askaboutmoney' section i.e. access is only for regular AAM members/contributors, with a specified number of posts, currently 50, (perhaps a %, or all, of these should have to have been posted in the financial section?) who are familiar with the Posting guidelines.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

That's alright for people like me who posted enough crap in LOS before the rules changed to get 50 posts up but what about the newbies? The one thing that the current rules have done is keep posters' from posting under numerous names in LOS (which was a problem in the past). There are plenty of posters who are really helpful in the DAAM sections but post very little above the line. I don't think that sort of contribution should be closed off.
Therefore I think that the current system is about right.


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## Janet (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

As one of those who tends to post on mainly non-financial topics (my only real financial expertise being in sharing my tale of woe re managing money badly and ending up in debt and how I'm dealing with that) I'm in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do enjoy the non-financial questions but on the other I don't really like a lot of the threads which fit more into the category of "I'm bored in work, let's start a thread to find out more about each other".  I used to post on ivenus.com a lot but stopped, partially because I got a bit older while the crowd there seemed to be getting younger but mainly because I was sick of the "what you doing for the weekend" type threads.  As has been said there are lots of other places for those kind of threads.  Lots of people (myself included) who post on AAM also post on boards.  I don't see any reason why AAM should be catering for every single type of discussion.  As someone (Brendan I think) said above AAM is a forum for questions and answers and I take that to also mean "not just for chatting".

Perhaps a distinction could be made between those threads which are asking for help with a question and those which are more just to while away the time (the creme egg thread for example).  I wouldn't be sorry to see that type of thread disappear or be referred to other more appropriate websites (although have to admit maybe choosing the creme egg thread as an example was wrong as I found that quite amusing.  Perhaps occasionally threads such as that could be allowed but moved to The Craic).  

There is plenty of opportunity for people's personalities and humour to come through in the course of answering "real" questions which is, I think, enough to keep the community aspect alive and well.


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## Janet (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

I think this thread is trying to determine exactly how "freely...it is intended" for AAM to be used.

For what it's worth I find the questions and answers format very entertaining and the more "fluff" postings there are the less likely I am to come back as the amount of posts to wade through to the interesting stuff is too many.

Re another point someone made about thread titles being changed, that's one of the things I like most about AAM - that I can see immediately what a thread is about. Can't stand thread titles like "Does anyone know..." with the rest of the question in the thread itself.


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## ajapale (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Thanks Janet,

Brendan said earlier that he was going to edit out material so just ignore the extraneous stuff for now.

Does anyone have any comments on the substantive issue?

aj


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## Humpback (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

I wasn't going to post here, but then saw the invitation from Brendan above. I have a few observations based on all that's going on recently.

1. I don't care how people eat their creme eggs, nor do I even like porridge never mind how people eat theirs either. So, I don't understand how one discussion was allowed continue, while the other was stifled. Neither, in my view of the excellence of AAM, belonged or should have been allowed continue.

2. To my mind, many people here are overly sensitive to comments made and to moderators decisions. Forums are impersonal formats of communication, and people should allow leeway for comments that may appear not to be to their liking. No one knows who you are, so don't take things so personally.

3. I look at AAM as more of a learning tool rather than anything else. I've learned loads here, and have passed on one or two tips myself in my time. However, seeing how other people eat their creme eggs, or how many bugs people found under a tree stump isn't adding to anyones learning. 

To the moderators and administrators, most of us here appreciate the service provided by AAM. 

I personally would suggest banning the people who *constantly* question decisions etc. There are 3 or 4 at the moment who are always doing it and are wasting peoples time, either having to moderate these posts or have to read over them before moving on to more worthwhile posts.

Maybe, to enforce the community spirit of AAM we can have a vote on these top 3 or 4 names and if they get more than x number of votes, bar them completely from AAM.

I find myself that the amount of unnecessary posts is increasing, not adding further value, and is causing me to use the facility less and less, unfortunately.


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## pricilla (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Hi, feel free to delete this Brendan, it's probably a stupid thing to ask anyway.
How exactly does it all work. I know absolutely nothing about the workings of this, except - Brendan started a site a few years back, and as more people that logged in, he needed moderators to keep an eye on things, and these people are unpaid. So, now there is loads of people here, and there is all sorts of rubbish posts starting up. Am I right so far?
So, how do the other websites survive, do you get any income from this increase in people logging in? I know we don't pay a fee, that's probably why it's so popular, is there any other way of making money from this? How exactly does it all work and could you potentially start paying the moderators (because the more rubbish, the more work they have to do) 
I know if I had invested so much time and money into a thing, I wouldn't want it turning into a load of crap like P45 and I can totally understand where Brendan is coming from, it's like his baby.


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## fobs (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

I think this site is moderated very well and generally I have had no complaints about threads being removed. (BTW - did find the porridge one interesting as try to have it most mornings and would love to see how other jazz it up but not heartbroken it's closed either)

Do find the non-financial questions very handy but often do wonder when to post in misc. non-financial questions as opposed to the other non-financial threads. THis is maybe the one title that may be misleading to people as it is a thin line between something going her or LOS.


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## ClubMan (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*



			
				pricilla said:
			
		

> Brendan started a site a few years back, and as more people that logged in, he needed moderators to keep an eye on things, and these people are unpaid.


 Correct.


> So, now there is loads of people here, and there is all sorts of rubbish posts starting up. Am I right so far?


 Well it's hard to objectively gauge the amount of rubbish being posted but some people feel that there has been an increase.


> do you get any income from this increase in people logging in?


 No.


> is there any other way of making money from this?  How exactly does it all work and could you potentially start paying the moderators.


 There is no plan to make money from the site or remunerate moderators. 

The fact that the site costs (_Brendan _and voluntary donors last time around) money to run and the moderators are unpaid is not really the issue here. The issue is the editorial/moderation policies and the real or perceived problems with these as they stand.


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## tiger (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

The issue as I understand it, is to what extent should AAM allow discussion about non-financial topics & how should such topics be moderated?

This seems to have generated a parallel discussion on moderators policy & possible abuse of powers, but is probably as a result of mis-understandings over the general policy as stated above.

AAM has added don't ask about money, the craic, LOS, etc. to cater for this, which I think is good.  The problem I see it that it is trying to apply the same high standards of moderation to these other forums.

A solution would be to have different policies for each section (and possibly different moderators) ?

The danger is that askaboutmoney no longer becomes a financial issues site.

If it's a growing pains issue, some lessons might be learned from boards.ie
- each forum has it's own posting guidelines
- each forum has it's own moderators
- some forums even require membership or to be pre-approved (e.g. soccer)
(the result is an unevenness in the quality of the forums, and different sub communities)

On the changing thread title issue, I understand why it's done, but I find it annoying when a thread I'm following seems to disappear.


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## Bamhan (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

I have recently found this site and find it invaluable for information on many topics in relation to house building and buying.
I have no interst in some of the silly posts which appear from time to time, so don't really mind if moderators choose to delete them.
I find the site is well run and doens't allow trolling or personal attacks or multiple user names so I fo one think the editorial policy is spot on.


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## ClubMan (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*



			
				tiger said:
			
		

> On the changing thread title issue, I understand why it's done, but I find it annoying when a thread I'm following seems to disappear.


 I must check if _vBulletin _has an option or hack that allows the original thread title to be retained for reference purposes - e.g. displays the new thread title but includes a reference to what it was previously/originally known as. On the other hand if people are interested in specific threads then they can subscribe to them to get email and/or _PM _notifications of changes/additions.


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## Gabriel (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*



			
				Brendan said:
			
		

> Has the sense of community been damaged by heavy handed moderation?



Yes. It's one of the main reasons I've chosen not to post here in quite some time.


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## demoivre (7 Feb 2006)

*Re: Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions posts*

Brendan, imo,  abandon guideline 13 altogether or abandon the don't AAM section ( which I think would be a mistake  )  - you can't have the two together. For example   the op in the tree trunk post was quoted  "the purpose of AAM was to ask and answer questions about personal finance in Ireland " - surely that is the  purpose of the AAM section on  the AAM site otherwise why would you have a dont AAM section in the first place   -  the op didn't put the thread in the AAM section , it was put in a section of don't AAM which is a substantial part of the overall site .

I like this site and think for the most part you and the mods. have got it right but in the overall context of the two main categories, AAM and dont AAM , guideline 13 just doesn't add up.


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## z107 (7 Feb 2006)

My 2cent:

 I see no problems with AAM, it strikes quite a good balance between community and just being pure reference site. I also have no problems with the mods either, I think they do a great job.

 My suggestion is to just make the criac a free-for-all forum where all the crap goes, completely unmoderated. Anyone can post there. At the end of every week just prune it back to 3 pages. Send all the unwanted threads there from the other forums, with a fist of iron.

 I've seen this aproach work quite well on other BBS. (Totse.com, one of the oldest boards on the internet has adopted this with their half-baked forum)


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

Posting Guideline 13 which was totally out of date has now been removed. 

Non financial questions and answers have been welcome on Askaboutmoney for some time. 

Brendan


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## racso (7 Feb 2006)

Again Thanks to all who keep the site going. My points are that if los and the craic as they say are not about finacial issues then you will have to put up with some of the postings on it. and thats the joy of a community what really annoys me is somebody elses pleasure.... i would suggest that a review of the non-financial questions section in dont ask about money should be removed as it provides confusion for people as to what can be posted there when everyother section of the site caters for peoples needs and generally people without enough posts for los and the craic post there with the result that it just gets moved on them. I do believe that the mods come in for a tuff time every now and again but i suppose thats part and parcel of volunteering your time you will never keep everybody happy


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

Upsidedown said



> My suggestion is to just make the criac a free-for-all forum where all the crap goes, completely unmoderated. Anyone can post there. At the end of every week just prune it back to 3 pages. Send all the unwanted threads there from the other forums, with a fist of iron.



That sounds like a good idea. A new name springs to mind, but I am trying to remain constructive. 

We can't be totally unmoderated, as there are defamation issues which we need to keep an eye on. 

Brendan


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## Sherman (7 Feb 2006)

> Can't stand thread titles like "Does anyone know..." with the rest of the question in the thread itself.


 
I fully agree with Janet on that point - it is extremely annoying having completely generic thread titles - and equally gratifying when they are subsequently made more relevant by a mod.

I feel don't aam is a useful resource - one can easily see how Homes & Gardens or IT, Broadband etc. can link into the general purpose of a personal finance site such as AAM. I'm not so sure about 'The Depths' in particular - Letting Off Steam is getting a real feel of some of the sillier parts of Boards.ie since Christmas, and I have been in the Craic about twice in the past year.

On a more ranty note, I wish people would make more use of the search function before they ask a question that has been asked a hundred times before - perhaps a banner could be placed across the top asking people to please use the search facility to check whether their question has already been answered before they go ahead and post it?

While on the topic of using searches, people seem to be getting a bit lazy and using AAM as a first port of call for queries that really, they could answer themselves by using Google, or having even a cursory look around Revenue.ie etc.


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## Humpback (7 Feb 2006)

Sherman said:
			
		

> people seem to be getting a bit lazy and using AAM as a first port of call for queries that really, they could answer themselves by using Google, or having even a cursory look around Revenue.ie etc.


 
I definitely second this complaint. It never ceases to amaze me how people see somewhere like here as a first port of call for a question like "I woke up this morning and only had 3 wheels on my car. Is this right?".


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## pricilla (7 Feb 2006)

Well if you're one of the trotters, it is right 
Totallly agree with all the above points, especially about the search, I honestly didn't even know how to use it till Clubman pointed it out to me. Another thing, I promise this is my last stupid question today, where exactly are the posting guidelines kept, I only notice them when a Mod posts a link


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## fobs (7 Feb 2006)

> It never ceases to amaze me how people see somewhere like here as a first port of call for a question like "I woke up this morning and only had 3 wheels on my car. Is this right?".


 
But remember what seems an obvious answer to one person may not be to another. Some people are newbies where the internet is concerned so may not have heard of  or www.revenue.ie or other sites and there are plenty of others like this I think in this instance a question is not silly if you don't know they answer! This is especially true for people who may have limited IT knowledge. I never mind directing someone to a website if an honest question is asked.

Do think however the search facilty should be highlighted to prompt people to use it and this is when the title of threads is most relevant when searching for a previous answer.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2006)

> The issue is the editorial/moderation policies and the real or perceived problems with these as they stand


  From my perspective there is no problem. Some people will be unhappy from time to time but as far as I am concerned this is inevitable. They should just live with it. Do people really expect volunteer moderators on a free site to write them a little note of explanation every time they do their job, just in case they hurt the feelings of a poster?  I think that the growth of AAM is a sign that the moderators are doing things right. Can I suggest that moderators might answer fewer posts asking direct questions about their editorial decisions and just stick to the standard (rainyday) response referring to the editorial policy? I find that posters of these threads just get wound up and it can get a bit heated on both sides.


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## ClubMan (7 Feb 2006)

Click on the _Links & About Askaboutmoney _link near the top of the page and there is a link to the posting guidelines in there.


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## Carpenter (7 Feb 2006)

I've noticed that poor or non existant punctuation is starting to creep into AAM and some of the posts can be pretty difficult to read as a result...I don't want to name names but...


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## jem (7 Feb 2006)

Agree with  sherman re ;lazyness, , people forget that there is a search function and google does work.
DAM was set up for all the non financial posts, out of that the holiday section started, likewise the cars, IT etc etc.
letting off steam has had a few names but was basically for what the name says. Personall I would be against closing down the likes of dam , the craic and los. however I am in favour of far higher/harder moderating of the below the line posts.


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## ClubMan (7 Feb 2006)

Carpenter said:
			
		

> I've noticed that poor or non existant punctuation is starting to creep into AAM and some of the posts can be pretty difficult to read as a result...I don't want to name names but...


Poor spelling, grammar, punctuation seems to be worryingly prevalent both on _AAM _and in the real world in general in my experience. Some people have an excuse (e.g. dyslexia) but at least some of it seems to be down to laziness or poor levels of basic literacy.


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

One important point about moderation:

It is a judgement call whether to moderate something or not. 

Many decisions are very clear - e.g. advertising.

If a mod is unsure, they usually move the post to the Mods forum and ask a second opinion. Opinion is often divided on the decision. 

But in general, if a moderator is unhappy with a post and the post adds nothing, then it is left deleted. 

We are simply too busy to enter into discussions or even to send PMs every time we delete posts. Most people know why their post was deleted.

Brendan


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## ninsaga (7 Feb 2006)

This is one of the best sites around & one I visit as often as I am able. I would certainly hope that a decision is NOT arrived at here which will just limit the nature of all posts to Financial related topics only. The Good/Deals Bad Deals, It, Phone, H&G forums are quite good.

For the most part the forums are quite descriptive & if people stick to the general headings then great. However it might be beneficial to quite clearly plant a link which states....

- For Health & Diet related topics click here (which links to vhi or irishhealth.com (for example)
- likewise as Clubman pointed out... to direct people to oasis.ie or revenue.ie etc etc

.... if these are clearly displayed on the home page then it may deflect some of the creme egg & porridge type topics

So where does one draw the line....I don't know... that's for Brendan to decide ultimately ...but perhaps the above might be a start.

(As for the Poor spelling, grammar, punctuation....)...I don't think it is 'worrying' as such!


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## racso (7 Feb 2006)

Ok.....getting very paranoid as people keep referring to the creme egg post which was started by myself. 

Sorry if this upset people but this stuff appeals to me and I think when you look at the actual size of aam and the amount of posts it gets each day the likes of the porridge and egg posts are extremely minimal and do obviously provided a element of relief for other members.


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## ajapale (7 Feb 2006)

I believe that the forum headings in AAM represent a continuum ranging from highly relevant to not relevant at all.

I agree with Legend that some the current category and forum titles can be confusing. I think more use should be made of the by line to shape and define each category and forum title.

I think that the title Don’tAskAboutMoney is very clever that has out lived its usefulness.

I have listed and scored each forum below using a five star rating system.

***** Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
()         No relevance to finance whatsoever

I have included the ‘by line’ and have added my rational for the rating in a different colour.

*Best Buys Tables* *****
The cheapest mortgage, best deposit rate etc.
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*Index/ How to Use Askaboutmoney/Suggestions* *
This should be an essential housekeeping item.
*Budget 2006* *****
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland.
*Mortgages and Home Buying* *****
This is for home related issues only. Ask about investment properties in the Investment Property forum.
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland..
*Location, Location, Location* ***
Discuss particular Irish locations for buying homes. Discuss overseas in Investment Property forum.
Lively discussion but fairly tenuous connection with personal finance.
*Savings and Investments* *****
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*Banking, Borrowing and Credit Cards* *****
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*Taxation* *****
Please note: business tax queries go in the Askaboutbusiness Forum; property tax queries go in the Property Investment Forum.
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*PRSAs and Pensions* *****
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*Other Financial Issues* ****
Miscellaneous Financial items
*Demutualisation Issues* ****
Irish Nationwide/Caledonian/Std Life
Limited interest but relevant to personal finance in Ireland
*Insurance* (13 Viewing) *****
Life, Health & Motor Insurance
Direct and unambiguous relevance to personal finance in Ireland
*Legal & Financial issues* ****
Probate/Small Claims   Court
Covering that grey area between the legal system and personal finance
*Car related issues* (21 Viewing) **
A big spend item
*Property Investment* (40 Viewing) ****
With the proliferation of amateur property investors this has direct relevance to personal finance
*Askaboutbusiness* ****
Has relevance for those starting up small businesses
*The Great Financial Debates* ***
Recurring debates on financial topics
Useful discussion often relating economics which have an indirect impact on personal finance
*Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions* *
Please keep general discussions and opinions in Letting Off Steam
Perhaps this should be relegated to the Depths?
*Careers, Employment/Unemployment, Further Education/Training* ***/(****)
Since this forum primarily deals with income from employment and social welfare, employee rights and training and development it has a direct impact on personal finance.
*I.T., Broadband and Digital Cameras* (24 Viewing) **
Including: email, browsers, viruses, PDAs, MP3 players
Significant spend item of interest to browsers
*Phones, DVDs, TVs, Audio/Visual* (18 Viewing) **
Significant spend item
*Homes and Gardens* (60 Viewing) **
Home/garden improvements, maintenance, DIY etc.
Significant spend item
*Holidays,Travel,Hotels & Airlines* (26 Viewing) **
Significant spend item
*Good Deals,Bad Deals & Consumer Issues* ****
Consumer rights and Good deals have direct relevance to personal finance in Ireland.
*Letting Off Steam* ()
For discussing current affairs, sports etc. Please try to keep it rational/polite though.
No direct relevance
*The Craic* ()
Jokes and other funny stuff - please try to keep it reasonable and inoffensive.
No direct relevance

I suggest categorising the forums according to agreed relevance to the primary aim of AAM

ajapale


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

We started off with a pure financial website. 
The information was good and people started asking non-financial questions. 
We were a bit reluctant to promote non-financial questions, but it has been a huge success. Good questions and good answers. I would not see any merit in "demoting" forums such as homes & gardens because of their lower relevance to the original purposes. 

What is unique about Askaboutmoney is that people can ask a serious question and they will get a serious and well informed factual answer. If the answer is wrong, it will usually be corrected quickly. 

 p45.net serves a different purpose. It is primarily "I am bored at work and I want a bit of diversion". That is fine, but it is not what we are about. 

If it is ok to ask a serious question about where to buy a kitchen or how to find a hotel in Bulgaria, then it is ok to ask a serious question about a non-financial issue which does not fall into one of the existing categories. 

That does not mean it is ok to use the Miscellaneous Non-financial Forums for a bit of diversion. I have looked at the first two pages of these and they are a mixed bag in terms of seriousness. Some are of the Creme Egg variety and should be deleted or moved to the Craic if that is what we decide. Some were more appropriate elsewhere and have already been moved. But there are good questions there which don't really belong anywhere else e.g. I have got good value of the "Interesting lectures on in Dublin" thread. 

As the non-financial questions have become such an integral part of the site, I don't think it would be right to restrict them to Frequent Posters.

Brendan


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## podgerodge (7 Feb 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> poor levels of basic literacy.



Is there a basic level required before posting on AAM?!






			
				rasco said:
			
		

> Sorry if this upset people but this stuff appeals to me and I think when you look at the actual size of aam and the amount of posts it gets each day the likes of the porridge and egg posts are extremely minimal and do obviously provided a element of relief for other members.



I agree - I thought that was the beauty of AAM - get some serious info, give some serious info, and maybe have a laugh while browsing. What's wrong with mixing business with pleasure?


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## WarrenBuffet (7 Feb 2006)

ninsaga said:
			
		

> This is one of the best sites around & one I visit as often as I am able. I would certainly hope that a decision is NOT arrived at here which will just limit the nature of all posts to Financial related topics only. The Good/Deals Bad Deals, It, Phone, H&G forums are quite good.



Would have to agree whole heartedly with this - I visit AAM far more often than any other web site. (Ratio of about 10:1!!!). Although some threads are frivolous in nature they are in the very small minority - when one takes into account the vastly increased popularity recently of AAM such posts are inevitable. (I have posted on sites such as p45 previously and believe you me AAM is not going down that route).

 [Isnt p45 getting a lot of advertising in this thread!]

The other non-financial threads (e.g. sport, careers, holidays) are generally discussed in a candid and interesting manner with the aim of helping out / offering genuine opinions to  other members. Although not directly related to finance I, and I am sure others, have found many emensely beneficial.

Finally, i first came across AAM roughly 15 months ago when i was living abroad and picked up a copy of the Irish Independent on a flight to UK. I saw a recommendation for AAM and out of curiousity I gave it a browse. Now, only a short time later, my knowledge of all things financial has exploded.......I am gone to the stage now where I take it as given that people know the stamp duty thresholds, deposit account interest rates, your rights as a tenant etc..... People don't, and i wouldnt either only for AAM.


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## stuart (7 Feb 2006)

I have been reading the posts and I think I feel that the confusion with mainly the "non-finanical questions" section is that it has carried a number of posts recently that where not actually questions but rather requests for opinions

This has crept in unintenionally and some have taken the interest of some of the mods and others haven't and have been moved due to their lack of content

I don't think the mods have set out to edit/move/lock some threads but rather that they have not appealed to their sense of what AAM stands for and have acted in good faith
Some may disagree but unless it is patently obvious then they should really let it go or contact the mod by PM themselves

I know I have had posts edited and moved and not once moaned (I think) as I do beleive that the mods are operating in good faith as I stated above

Maybe the more general "porridge" questions could be carried in a "Depths Forum" and that forum be cleaned up once a week as their is very likely to be anything there that will be referred or be of any use later on

This "chat" forum could be limited to frequesnt posters 
As if it is required as a sense of community then the poster should be a regular user to feel part of a community
How many posts needed to become a frequesnt poster could be reviewed as 50 is a large number of posts for someone to make who has come to AAM looking for info initially

And I'd be surprised if there would ever need to be a search on how to eat a chochlate egg required in the future 
No offence Rrasco

I know this is making the depths larger but it should give an outlet for less serious questions that are not resuests for specific information

That's my lot
But for all those who feel hard done by in the non-financial forums, do as I do from time to time, get fed up with the non-financial forum bickering and give those a break for a while

It works

stuart@buyingtolet.ie


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Feb 2006)

Warren Buffett said:

[Isnt p45 getting a lot of advertising in this thread!]

Indeed it is and it richly deserves it! www.p45.net  is  a really great site which has forums dedicated to the following subjects, among others:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]  [broken link removed]  -   [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -   -  [broken link removed]  -    -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed] -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  The Accidental Pilgrim  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]  -  [broken link removed]
[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]
With whole forums dealing with these topics, how on earth can Askaboutmoney compete?
[/FONT]
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AS the radio ads often say, give me that name again:
[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]
www.p45.net 
[/FONT]


 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]
Brendan
[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]
p.s. Just in case anyone is colour blind - that address again is www.p45.net
[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Univers]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]


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## Chamar (7 Feb 2006)

This is actually one of the first sites that I use that is tightly moderated - and I quite like that as long as it is within reason. Overall this is a great forum.

However, posts like "what time do you get up at?" to "how do you eat yours?" are UTTERLY BANAL and when I see them I am LESS likely to come back. I like a good debate so keep LOS but get rid of that RUBBISH.

Someone's suggestion of keeping "The Craic" for the all that crap is a good one as I personally NEVER go there.


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## onekeano (7 Feb 2006)

Fully agree with everything in Ninsaga's post. I have found this site to be a fantastic source for several years now (incidentally how long is it running now?).

To Brendan and the mods - thank you, I'm sure it's a bit like being on the Resident's Association committee or the company Sports & Social committee where it's always easy to criticise the people doing the work.

Having said that there are 2 things that really get to me 1) is that person who insists on using a Capital Letter For Every Word In Every Sentence and the other is where posts are disected line by line and quoted back to the poster. For those of us who have been around a long time and know the various characters and their form that's one thing but for newbies (and I would say that there must be 50 members at least that I encouraged to sign up..... it is very off putting.

Overall a great community! Well done Brendan!

Roy


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## ninsaga (7 Feb 2006)

onekeano said:
			
		

> Overall a great community! Well done Brendan!



..... yes ...least we forget....and even though we may not all agree with some of the editing/deletions by the mods it has to be said that there is great work being done here  - by ALL of them.

It is no doubt quite difficult to monitor & ensure that defamatory & offensive topics are pulled out. This is done on a voluntary basis..so thanks to all of you.

The more I think about it (and I rarely think!)... AAM has perhaps become a victim of its own success. People are drawn to this site as they hear about it with the intention of learning more - and invariably many do end up contributing as much if not more. Just look at the max amount on line at any one time - another record broken the other day! (which is great). Nevertheless this will draw some wrong attention also & some cringe topics end up getting posted.

Keep up the good work anyways!

ninsaga


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## ClubMan (8 Feb 2006)

onekeano said:
			
		

> 1) is that person who insists on using a Capital Letter For Every Word In Every Sentence


 That happens when the user posts in ALL CAPITALS and _vBulletin _converts the post to Mixed Case Albeit Not Cleverly Enough Since It Leaves The First Letter Of Each Word Capitalised.


> and the other is where posts are disected line by line and quoted back to the poster.


 We have had this discussion over and over again. Some people don't like this approach to answering posts and see it as dissecting, nitpicking. offputting or even (bizarrely in my opinion) rude. Others (such as myself) see it as a very useful way to retain the context of the discussion when the thread is busy and other posts may intervene between the one being answered and the answer itself or when responding to multiple previous posts and so on. There have been many cases of somebody reacting confusedly or irately to a post that seems to be in response to their own but is actually in response to an even earlier one. Quoting would solve these problems and can make threads even easier to follow. Anyway, my signature makes my views on the matter clear.


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## Chamar (8 Feb 2006)

Clubman, I have to say, the quoting thing - it's so difficult to read those posts - and, this is just my opinion, but if this discussion comes up over and over it maybe it's over-used.

I do see your point - it's just I don't think it's generally neccessary.


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Feb 2006)

Folks

Please avoid straying onto the "What annoys me about Askaboutmoney is..." unless you are making a serious proposal for a change.  

Please keep to the main fundamental topics on which I think we are making great progress.

Brendan


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## Purple (8 Feb 2006)

I would like to humbly remind the moderators that just because some posters post mainly in the DAAM section (that Purple guy for example), it doesn’t mean that they don’t spend most of their time reading posts in the AAM section. 
There are many occasions where I could offer an opinion or answer to a question, but I know there are others out there who will give a better and more succinct answer. 
So I wait for a day or so and only answer if no one else has done so. 
I would assume that this is the case for other posters.


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## extopia (8 Feb 2006)

I like AAM the way it is. No problems with frivolous posts. If their numbers have increased, I haven't noticed.

Keep up the good work!


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## legend99 (8 Feb 2006)

Well I want to say fair play for entering into an open discussion about the matter. We all want whats best for the site....i certainly have no agenda or anything. So anything that comes out of this thats constructive should benefit everything.
I was going to suggest that an internal moderation policy be committed to paper and published so everyone can see it and then hope it be enforced with consistency. Thats my twopence worth...


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## ClubMan (8 Feb 2006)

The moderation policy is already publicly available in the form of the  and  even if, it seems, some of these may need some review and clarification as has happened in the past (e.g. based on similar constructive feedback).


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## redstar (8 Feb 2006)

Do the moderators think the controls over posters who covertly use AAM to direct people to their own products/services is effective ? I don't mean AAMers such as 'Sarah W', whom we all know works for REA and doesn't hide the fact, but those who advertise under the guise of giving impartial advice.

I have seen some 'pretenders' caught out but am just wondering overall how effective the controls are.


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## ClubMan (8 Feb 2006)

It's hard to be 100% effective in this context but I personally think that the controls are fairly effective. We have caught several chancer out but don't always highlight this fact in public to avoid giving them any (even negative) publicity.


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## MonsieurBond (8 Feb 2006)

extopia said:
			
		

> I like AAM the way it is. No problems with frivolous posts. If their numbers have increased, I haven't noticed.
> 
> Keep up the good work!



I agree. Unmoderated BBS type systems (ooops - showing my age!) do not hold my interest as all-too-often personality clashes and/or banal threads find it hard to find the actual useful, informative or even entertaining threads.

On the subject of non-financial topics, while I myself have occasionally posted on the financial threads, I echo the sentiments of another poster below, in that I read the posts but do not in any way consider myself a financial expert. I therefore tend not to post unless I have something that I consider might be interesting or would consider to the debate that has not already been mentioned.

I do however find myself posting on non-financial subjects - probably because I am too much in love with gadgets and spend too much time surfing the net!


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## Guest127 (8 Feb 2006)

some time ago I posted that Boylesports advertised a €100 free bet to anyone who opened a new accout with them. I pointed out that while it was possible to actually get the €100 it was not as straightforward as the blurb appeared to make it. this post in turn mutated into a post about betting on various items - mostly football it must be said and turned very very frivilous. however I note that over 2000 visits have been made to that site. probably just curiosity. I never visit the site unless theres a new post so it wasn't all me. I enjoy aam as it is. admit I dont visit the craic forum but do skim in and out of most of the others. Personally I wouldnt like LOS closed.


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## Capaill (8 Feb 2006)

AAM is a great site that I have found to be full of well informed people with expertise on various areas, not all of them financial.  This site is now one of my first port of calls when looking for information on an issue so I for one think if should retain the current format.

Sure there have been some "boards" type posts lately but I simply ignore them.  If others find them entertaining thats fine by me.

Regarding the moderation of the threads, I think it is pretty clear on what can and cannot be allowed.  This is an invaluable resource that I can use at no cost apart from trying to help where my knowledge or experience may be of worth.

If threads start that I have no interest in, I ignore them, likewise there are some posters that tend to make me steer away from a thread when I see their name attached to it.  But then again I am the type of guy who turns a programme off that I don't like rather than watch it and then give out about it<g>

Personally I have not had one of my threads moderated but if it were to happen, I would not lose sleep over it.  This is the Internet, I can always move to other sites where my moderated thread would be more welcome.  

This is a great site, I for one do not want to see its value undermined by it becoming too much like P45 or other sites.

Well done to Brendan and the moderators for a great resource.

C


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## car (9 Feb 2006)

FWIW, I think AAM is ok the way it is. If Im not mistaken, there was an influx of not so serious questions around this time last year too.   Ive been hanging around for a couple of years now and it seems theres been 2-3 of these "tell us what you think" posts after a few posts have been moderated and posters complained.    Janet summed these type of posts up well by describing them as 


> "I'm bored in work, let's start a thread to find out more about each other"


 threads.
Seasonal maybe? New Year, people just bored with work etc. methinks it'll wear off.   my 2 cents.


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## extopia (9 Feb 2006)

Capaill said:
			
		

> This is the Internet.



It certainly is.

Why ask the original Q, Brendan? Is there an issue we don't know about?


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2006)

Hi Extopia

There had been an increase in frivolous posts and a consequent increase in moderation and clarification was sought on the posting guidelines by another user. Despite my best efforts to keep that thread constructive, it deteriorated . So I restarted the thread and the result has been very useful. 

We don't discuss why we moderate specific posts, but from time to time, it is useful to have a review of the posting guidelines and moderting policy. 

Brendan


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## legend99 (9 Feb 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> Hi Extopia
> 
> There had been an increase in frivolous posts and a consequent increase in moderation and clarification was sought on the posting guidelines by another user. Despite my best efforts to keep that thread constructive, it deteriorated . So I restarted the thread and the result has been very useful.
> 
> ...



Indeed...a comment on life is that we should all be constantly trying to learn and evolve. So its not a bad thing to stop and look around every so often. I just wanted to say that I think this site truely is a legend of a site!


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## efm (9 Feb 2006)

Seeing as we are all at it I'll throw my 2 cents in as well.....

Firstly I think AAM is one of the best sites around for good, balanced and informed debate and answers, and I think it shows the power of the internet - just think how many people have been helped by this site and as a result of reading it have become better informed financially and in other areas. 

I also agree that I think it is starting to become a victim of it's own success; there has been an increase in the number of frivolous posts and a reduced use of the search function, but as Capaill said (and I agree with everything in his post) I can just ignore them.

I think Ajapale might be onto something with his breakdown of the relevance of the forum headings and I do think that the headings page could possibly benefit from a redesign maybe moving away from the BB style onto a webpage / html design (don't know if that is possible on vB and might also increase costs).

Another solution might be to look for more moderators to help cope with the increase in the number of users.

Anyway, whatever the direction, keep up the good work !

efm


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## Lauren (9 Feb 2006)

extopia said:
			
		

> I like AAM the way it is. No problems with frivolous posts. If their numbers have increased, I haven't noticed.


I fully agree with extopia. I found AAM when I was living in Australia and it has helped me with my return to Ireland, setting up my own company to become a contractor and right through the purchase process of my new apartment....I really don't know what I would have done without the advice, information and informative links I have found on this site....

The site is well moderated and whilst I don't always agree with decisions to close posts etc, well thats life and is a tiny price to pay for this invaluable resource...
Keep up the good work Brendan and Co.


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## OhPinchy (9 Feb 2006)

My tuppence worth: AAM is easily one of the best Irish sites on the Internet as it offers endless advice on important financial issues. That's its primary focus and it excels at it, but _some_ of the non-financial sections are also beneficial (e.g. Home & Gardens give people excellent help on all things related to their primary investment - their house, and the advice gained on their empowers a lot of people when dealing with the trade, and also helps people to fix problems themselves, all of which saves them money).

Fair play to Brendan and all the mods for all the trojan work they do in running the site, and I for one would have no problem with seeing a banner advertisement at the top of the site in order to cover costs and give the mods a reward every now and then, though obviously this would be from a financial institution which would raise issues on partiality etc.

As I've said in the past, taking a narrow view that this site is only about money and anything else isn't really welcome will be detrimental to the long term success of the site. Sure, you could say 'if you want to talk about that go to boards.ie', but some people will go there, like it, and never come back, thereby depriving this community of a potential contributor. 

That said, you cant have people coming on here just to waffle in meaningless threads (I would categorise any thread that doesn't 'help anybody as meaningless. e.g. knowing how you like your Creme Egg doesn't help anyone, but pointing out a great deal you got, or how to fix your PC does help people).

So, in short, my solution would be to lump all categories that don't help people into one section (i.e. add more to The Depths), and clearly advertise that this section will only be moderated to prevent against libel - i.e. there will be no quality control. Once everyone knows what to expect in there, and it can be skimmed to prevent libel, anyone using it couldn't complain about standards, though many would be happy to use it regardless.

Oh, and I do agree that the number of people posting threads without searching for previous ones on the same subject is growing and is frustrating (e.g. how many 'About to build extension, what is the cost per sq ft?' threads have there been recently?).


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

OhPinchy said:
			
		

> I for one would have no problem with seeing a banner advertisement at the top of the site in order to cover costs and give the mods a reward every now and then, though obviously this would be from a financial institution which would raise issues on partiality etc.


There is and never was any plan to do this. _Brendan _foots most of the running costs himself and fair play to him. Last year (or the year before?) users were invited to make voluntary contributions towards the _ezBoard_ subscription renewal - at their own discretion and with no onus on them to do so or any strings attached - and the renewal subscription amount was raised in a few days if I recall correctly. At that point no further donations were solicited or accepted. I guess there's always a possibility that a similar approach (e.g. via _PayPal _etc.) might be taken in order to defray costs and take some of the financial burden off _Brendan _(not that he ever complains about it). However there are no plans to make the site commercial, money making or to accept advertising.


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## OhPinchy (9 Feb 2006)

Fair play to Brendan is right!

I would gladly donate a few quid to the running costs, and would think it'd be fair for him to take just enough donations to be able to buy the mods a meal. I'd say you'd get enough donations to cover this in no time.


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## MissRibena (9 Feb 2006)

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said but just want to join with the support for Brendan and the mods.   I'm another poster who reads the whole website but doesn't feel confident/competent enough to answer most of the financial questions, or most of the non-financial ones either come to think of it.   But I visit this website every day and have come to rely on it as a back-up source of info/opinions - kinda like having a knowledgeable neighbour.

I agree with the posters who call to keep the non-financial aspect going and also agree it has gone downhill recently.  I miss the informed (and sometimes heated) debates on current affairs that seemed to be more prevalent a year ago. The frivolous threads seem to be much more dominant now.  (Where did daltonr go? Did Clubman finally get him to back down for good?)  Mind you, when those threads were more prevalent, we had some navel-gazing about that too.

So do whatever you need to to keep it more or less how it is and if you need some help (financial or otherwise), just ask as I'm sure plenty of us would be only too delighted to be a part of it.

Rebecca


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## my2leftfeet (9 Feb 2006)

Totally agree with the last couple of posters. I log in every day - more than once! - and while I don't contribute a whole lot in the financial area - I add my tuppence worth where I can. I have no problems with any decisions taken by moderators - and I have learnt a whole lot.
On running costs - I was delighted to give a few quid the only time it was asked and would gladly do so again ... as others have suggested ... to defray some of Brendan's running costs and make a gesture of thanks to the moderators who give considerable time to this site.
My apologies for straying off topic - but I want to take the opportunity to say that my sense of "community" increased in line with making a contribution - it was good to be able to give something back when asked.


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

Just to be clear in case of any confusion - any donations last time around were purely used to renew the _ezBoard _subscription. Once the subscription cost was met the donation mechanism was closed off. If there was any excess then it was most likely a few US$/c at most. Any future contributions would be used to renew the _ISP _hosting, domain name renewal and _vBulletin _upgrade costs. Neither _Brendan _nor any of the moderators benefit from this money at all (even for a few pints or a meal as suggested above). I am pretty certain that I speak for all moderators in not wanting or expecting any payment at all.


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## my2leftfeet (9 Feb 2006)

Just to be clear in case of any confusion - we *know* that neither Brendan nor any of the moderators benefitted from contributions ... a few people are just suggesting that maybe they should. I would like to see people getting a small "thank you" for their efforts.  
Just as long as you all know that all efforts on behalf of the site are greatly appreciated. Personally I get disappointed when things get heated from time to time and pot shots are taken at some moderators ... but I hope that out of this discussion will come some solutions. I for one am perfectly happy to go along with whatever is decided.


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

my2leftfeet said:
			
		

> a few people are just suggesting that maybe they should.


I understand that but I personally would not like to see that happening.


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## fobs (9 Feb 2006)

> Just to be clear in case of any confusion - we *know* that neither Brendan nor any of the moderators benefitted from contributions ... a few people are just suggesting that maybe they should. I would like to see people getting a small "thank you" for their efforts.


 
I like the not for profit nature of AAM and would hate any advertising here. Think things work as they are and don't see the need for financial rewards for moderators if not required. 

I would make one suggestion re:LOS - allowed for users who have 50+ posts. Where a valid discussion is started by a user and is then moved to LOS i think the author of the thread should have access to reply to argue his/her point - see the evading tax example.


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

fobs said:
			
		

> I would make one suggestion re:LOS - allowed for users who have 50+ posts. Where a valid discussion is started by a user and is then moved to LOS i think the author of the thread should have access to reply to argue his/her point - see the evading tax example.


I disagree. Then what would be the point in having any restriction? At the moment people have to have some sort of posting track record to post in _LOS_ deliberately to weed out time wasters.


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## Gabriel (9 Feb 2006)

Wow...four whole pages of back slapping!!

At the risk of being cynical - I'm a long time AAM user. Like many others who've posted here. Over four years in fact.

Yes, the moderators do a great job. So does Brendan. I've always thought that. And yes this is a great site. But you probably wouldn't be reading this if you didn't think that. But I'll resist the urge to say anymore.
At the end of the day the people who moderate here do so out of choice. 

I actually think (and I don't think I'm alone in this) that some of the moderation has been a bit on the heavy side and badly done. I doubt I'm the only poster who's been put off posting here because of it. And I only spent a relatively small percentage of my time in LOS.

I also think there's a small percentage of moderators who are ill fit to do the job.

Incidentally, I'm not sure how constructive the feedback you're receiving is. For a start it's in LOS so only certain posters can respond to this.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2006)

> kinda like having a knowledgeable neighbour.



That's a great way of looking at it. If we ever change the title to reflect the wider scope of the site, it would be a good name to go for.

And just as people might buy a meal or present for a helpful neighbour, if we do get around to setting up a PayPal account, we might raise a small bit extra for a dinner and few pints for the mods. I wouldn't be too proud/pure/whatever  to refuse it.

Brendan


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## mo3art (9 Feb 2006)

As the person who started the "porridge thread", well for starters I apologise, I didn't think it was out of place on the forum I posted it in but if it was well then I apologise.  I have to admit I was very taken aback to see the thread closed down and in a way wasn't inclined to go back to the boards for a while.  Which is a pity because I use the boards an awful lot and find them great and enjoy them a huge amount.

I feel that the boards are great, the moderation is perfect and it's great to see the community spirit.  As other posters mentioned the removal of "the depths" etc would only detract from the site I feel and if the frivolous stuff is getting too much and detracting from the main mission of AAM then all of that needs to be moved to "the depths" imho.

Apologies again.


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## SineWave (9 Feb 2006)

I'm glad to see that at least the mods and Brendan got a few pints and a meal from the contributions, and will hopefully be able to do the same again next year. It will be sad though to see third-party advertising banners coming in.


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## Sue Ellen (9 Feb 2006)

SineWave said:
			
		

> I'm glad to see that at least the mods and Brendan got a few pints and a meal from the contributions, and will hopefully be able to do the same again next year. It will be sad though to see third-party advertising banners coming in.


 
Hi Sinewave,

I think you may have misread the posts above. We have actually never had either a pint or a meal from the contributions to-date. If you have a look again you will see that Clubman is opposed to same whereas Brendan says:

"And just as people might buy a meal or present for a helpful neighbour, if we do get around to setting up a PayPal account, we might raise a small bit extra for a dinner and few pints for the mods. I wouldn't be too proud/pure/whatever to refuse it".


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## ClubMan (9 Feb 2006)

SineWave said:
			
		

> I'm glad to see that at least the mods and Brendan got a few pints and a meal from the contributions, and will hopefully be able to do the same again next year. It will be sad though to see third-party advertising banners coming in.


 Once again I have to point out that *this did not happen. *Neither _Brendan _nor any of the moderators as far as I know (certainly not me) have ever received or benefited directly from any of the money that was donated to _AAM _by users. A couple of posters earlier suggested that a meal and a few pints for moderators out of _any AAM _kitty raised through donations might be a good idea. _Brendan _said that he wouldn't be averse to availing of that. I personally would be averse and would not accept any remuneration or emoluments from _AAM_. I would also cease to be involved if the site became commercial or accepted advertising. Others may have their own opinions on these issues. I just wanted to clear that up (again).


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2006)

I am 100% with ClubMan and all the moderators on this - there is absolutely no question of advertising, sponsorship or any other form of commercialism. 

However, if you bump into me in Doheny's and want to buy me a pint, I will gladly accept it as long as you don't tell ClubMan. We couldn't afford to lose him.

Brendan


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## DrMoriarty (9 Feb 2006)

I'd just like to clarify that my own personal PayPal a/c no. is _[Inappropriate post deleted by DrMoriarty] _


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## ClubMan (10 Feb 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> However, if you bump into me in Doheny's and want to buy me a pint, I will gladly accept it as long as you don't tell ClubMan. We couldn't afford to lose him.


 At the risk of getting pedantic (yeah, yeah - I know...) there is a qualitative difference between a user buying a moderator a pint and moderators benefiting from any kitty raised from user donations. I would be very much against the latter on the basis that it could undermine trust in any donations mechanism and some users may not want donations used for this purpose. Anything else is a matter between consenting adults. By the way - while I'm at it I should declare that I personally did not contribute to the last fund raising effort preferring to donate in kind in terms of administrative assistance etc.


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## Purple (10 Feb 2006)

I think that the time and effort given by the moderators in general, and ClubMan in particular, far outweighs any financial contribution given by contributors. 
This thread is meant to be about moderation in general, not how thankful we all are to the moderators for their time and effort (and I think it is clear that pretty much all of us are). While I have no problem with the moderation of this site others might have and if I may be so bold, that’s what Brendan is looking for; feedback about how the site is moderated.


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## MissRibena (10 Feb 2006)

I think you might be missing the point of some of us "back-clappers", Purple and Gabriel.  If our feedback is that we think it is fine as it is, please don't mess with it; then that's as valid as any other member calling for change.  There's no point in Brendan et al changing the way they moderate the site if a) they don't want to and b) the majority think it is fine as it is.

Rebecca


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## Purple (10 Feb 2006)

I agree MissR, It's just that the thread is becoming about funding the site etc. A worthy topic but not what this one is about IMHO.


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## ClubMan (10 Feb 2006)

Most of the thread is not about funding but is about feedback and suggestions on moderation, management and layout of the site. The funding issue has distracted from things a bit largely because of the suggestions and subsequent confusion in some quarters about moderators benefiting from donations. _Brendan _has been doing sterling work in separating the wheat from the chaff in this thread and keeping it on topic. If necessary he might want to split funding related issues into a separate thread.


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## sun_sparks (10 Feb 2006)

If people are concerned about the level of posts that could be avoided by the poster doing a quick search first, perhaps the search functionality could be highlighted when the person registers? Maybe make all new members visit the search page?

(A little Flash demo of the search functionality that has to be played for a person to register might be useful, or something similar that is available as a permanent link on the homepage? I don't have that skill though, or I'd volunteer.)

However, in giving out about repetitious posts, we should remember that we all started here posting what we considered to be very important questions that hadn't quite been asked or answered before. (I certainly did!) I think once people see how to search then they use it, but it's not always obvious to new visitors to the site.


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## ClubMan (10 Feb 2006)

sun_sparks said:
			
		

> However, in giving out about repetitious posts, we should remember that we all started here posting what we considered to be very important questions that hadn't quite been asked or answered before. (I certainly did!) I think once people see how to search then they use it, but it's not always obvious to new visitors to the site.


 True - and I don't think that most people (contributors or moderators) are hard on people who are new and post queries that happen to have been asked already. In most cases they point them to this fact, the search feature and sometimes even specific threads or search results. However established posters who are more familiar with the site and the fact that many issues have been previously covered are a different matter.

That suggestion about highlighting the search feature at registration time is very interesting. A simple way to do this might be to tune the registration/activation email that is sent out to include an explanation. However this won't help the three or so people a day who contact _Brendan _because they are unable to complete the registration for one reason or another (often because their spam filter gobbles the _AAM _registration/activation email or they simply don't read it).


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