# Went through amber light with Guards close behind me



## Ray_Rod (13 Nov 2008)

Hi 

I just got a fine on the post which I never thought I would get.

All happened when couple of months ago going to college, I got green/ yellow traffic lights.
No time to really stop gently as traffic lights were just few meters away and following me a Garda car ... keep going for approximately 5 min drive with garda car behind still. No even bother as I was certain i haven’t done anything wrong.

Got into college and then into college car park, then in the car park the Garda car approach me (never stopped or given any sign)and without get out of the car ( 3 gardas on it) one asked me which was the colour of the lights, I told them that being sincere I had not really reaction time and I took the decision to keep going with yellow instead of breaking abruptly and so I kept going, (so they did behind me)

Then one Garda came out of the car and asked me for Driving licence and insurance, as I was unable to provided it on the spot I provide college ID and address then I was advised that I had to provided within 10 day in x Garda station. ok bye, bye

*That was all my conversation* with them, the following day provided the driving licence and insurance in the agreed Garda station.

Never heard anything else until I got my fine.

My issue is not the money €80 or the points as I have a clean European licence, it is about principles, first of all because the light was yellow and they also pass with the lights in yellow (probably red by then) but I wasn’t notified neither verbally or produced a physical fine.

I friend of mine reckons i should chance it in court which i really think i shoild, but Should I?
Aren’t Gards obliged to inform me of the infraction?
Don’t they have to give me a ticket?
is my word agaisnt 3 gards = lost case?

I would appreciate any help as I’m not Irish and I’m not sure of the law here.

Thanks a lot


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## terrontress (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

Amber lights mean you must stop unless to do so would be a danger to other road users.

I'd say you have no leg to stand on.

They are exempt from the traffic light regulations and in any case, their actions would have no bearing as to whether you had committed an offense.


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## papervalue (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

If you past the light at the amber and kept going i agree with the continuning on as it is a split second decision. Check the rules of the road on this. If the guards were behind you and you barely made it, the lights were red by time they got their( They are more of a danger to traffic as they are one to two seconds in danger zone after lights going red).

If they pull you for offence like this they should pull you over immediately.

I would be tempted to go to court and explain to Judge what happened and take pictures of junction if happened on.

You may have be seem as easy touch to make up their crime number's.

An example would be right turn from georges street to dame street where cars cant go right. The odd few do and the guards pull them out side the citi hotel(talk about fish in a barrell).

They never catch the fella overtaking on a straight white line on county roads


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## Romulan (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

As a side comment I notice that many sets of lights turn amber and then red too quickly.  

So even if they turned amber at the exact time you pass them, they are red by the time you get across the junction.


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## Ray_Rod (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

Thanks , 

Terrontress I do agree, yellow means to stop, but as Papervalue said it was a split of a second to make a decision, ok i make the wrong decision, but shouldn't they stop me on the spot rather than following me into the college car park? which from the junction is probably 2 km away and give me a ticket for the offence?

I'm, starting to think that when they finished their day they though, ummm I need an extra fine today..... and guess who was the winner!!!


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## gipimann (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

Just a question - are you being fined for the traffic light offence or for not carrying your driving licence?   It's a legal requirement to carry your driving licence at all times, failure to do so attracts penalty points (not applicable in your case as you have a non-Irish licence) and (I think) a fine?


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## Ray_Rod (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



gipimann said:


> Just a question - are you being fined for the traffic light offence or for not carrying your driving licence? It's a legal requirement to carry your driving licence at all times, failure to do so attracts penalty points (not applicable in your case as you have a non-Irish licence) and (I think) a fine?


 
 For the traffic light offence


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## mildew (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

I have always had the understanding that if a Garda vehicle (or any other emergency vehicle) needs to break a red (or amber) light they *must* use lights and siren.

I would go to court and argue that if you are being summonsed for breaking an amber light, then the Guard driving behind you also broke the lights without giving due warning to other road users i.e. He / She was not driving with due care and attention.

My brother argued the exact same circumstances in court a number of years ago.............. and won!!!!!! for the reasons given above.


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## euroDilbert (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



gipimann said:


> Just a question - are you being fined for the traffic light offence or for not carrying your driving licence?   It's a legal requirement to carry your driving licence at all times, failure to do so attracts penalty points (not applicable in your case as you have a non-Irish licence) and (I think) a fine?



It is an offence - but no penalty points.

See :

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php#generalqueries


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## euroDilbert (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



mildew said:


> I have always had the understanding that if a Garda vehicle (or any other emergency vehicle) needs to break a red (or amber) light they *must* use lights and siren



It was always my understanding that they have no _right _in law to do this - with or without sirens. However, obviously discretion is usually exercised in the circumstances.


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## btcunningham (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

Hi ,
i Had a similar case a few years back where i was given a fine on the spot but the garda followed me back to work and when issuing the fine did not get out of the car in order to do so. Is this legal on his behalve


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## markpb (13 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



euroDilbert said:


> It was always my understanding that they have no _right _in law to do this - with or without sirens. However, obviously discretion is usually exercised in the circumstances.



The Road Traffic Act does not apply to garda cars or emergency service vehicles where required by, or in the course of their duties. There's nothing wrong with them going through a red light (without sirens, etc) if they are stopping someone who has broken the law or if they are in a rush (and not just to dinner )



papervalue said:


> If you past the light at the amber and kept going i agree with the continuning on as it is a split second decision. Check the rules of the road on this.



The rules of the road say unless your front wheel is across the white line (or in a line with the traffic lights), you must not continue unless it would be dangerous to stop. Of course, if it's dangerous to stop it's usually because you were travelling at an inappropriate speed approaching a junction.



> I would be tempted to go to court and explain to Judge what happened and take pictures of junction if happened on.



If you go to court, it depends on the judge. If you broke the law (according to a Garda), you broke the law. The judge may decide to let you off because it's a minor offense or they may decide to be harsh with you for wasting court time.


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## euroDilbert (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



markpb said:


> The Road Traffic Act does not apply to garda cars or emergency service vehicles where required by, or in the course of their duties. There's nothing wrong with them going through a red light (without sirens, etc) if they are stopping someone who has broken the law or if they are in a rush (and not just to dinner )



Interesting - you're right about that - and I always believed it was just discretionary. 

Some more details [broken link removed]


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## O'Fla (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

Markpb is right to say that the road traffic act does not cover Garda cars or emergency vehicles in it's guidelines, however unless they are on official duty they are governed by the same rules of the road as the general public, its one of those unwritten rules.  They are obliged to follow the same rules of the road as ther general public.  Thay are olso obliged to use their sirens when breaking red lights crossing traffic as it is a signal to oncoming traffic to be cautious, failure to do so would result in untold crashes.  I would agree fully however that it would be a risk to take it to court as it will depend on the judge of the day.


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## Hans (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

I would be most surprised if you won.  I had same experience years ago and you wont win.  I have a great respect for the gardai (my dad was one) but you will always get ones that act like little hitlers, I hope this didn't happen here in Limerick where they would have been better off going after the real LAW BREAKERS. It must have been a quiet day for them that 3 of them could coast around looking for people going through yellow lights.  Hands up anyone who at somethime didn't keep going when the light was yellow!!!!!


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## Ray_Rod (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



Hans said:


> I would be most surprised if you won. I had same experience years ago and you wont win. I have a great respect for the gardai (my dad was one) but you will always get ones that act like little hitlers, I hope this didn't happen here in Limerick where they would have been better off going after the real LAW BREAKERS. It must have been a quiet day for them that 3 of them could coast around looking for people going through yellow lights. Hands up anyone who at somethime didn't keep going when the light was yellow!!!!!


 
It was in Limerick.
I decided I'm paying the fine as I'll not get the points on my DL anyway. 
If i go to court I "will waste" more tax payer money. As for the gards , 
I can see that things do not work as they should. They are not able to catch who they should and normal people we pay their frustrations. We are the easy ones to bully.

Thanks to everyone for your oppinion


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## CharlieR (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

The guards are not allowed to go through a red light, they are given a dispensation to do so when carrying out their duties. They must obey the rules of the road like every other motorist. If they wish to use their dispensation then they need to advise other road users and use a combination of either lights or sirens. Likewise they cannot speed without using their lights or sirens.

As they failed to notify other members of the public, ie siren and/or lights they were driving dangerously when they followed you through the lights.

Go to court and they will see that they cannot money make off the motorist without consequences.


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## sparkeee (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*

The issue is not whether the cops broke the light,its did you and you did,its your word against 3 cops,you should have stopped.You can report the cops to the ombudsman if you want but you broke the law.


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## CharlieR (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Garda procedure*



sparkeee said:


> The issue is not whether the cops broke the light,its did you and you did,its your word against 3 cops,you should have stopped.You can report the cops to the ombudsman if you want but you broke the law.


 
Report them to their superintendant and they will be dealt with accordingly. They broke the law and depending on if you crossed the white line whilst on amber, no, then they are in the wrong.

I was stopped onece for a simmilar offence and the Guard flashed his headlights and his blue lights and I pulled over and waited. He didn't break the law aswell.


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