# KBC & Ombudsman tracker complaint



## bluestilton (27 Apr 2020)

Just wondering if anyone had a decision from Ombudsman re cases relating to KBC trackers. Our complaint sent to Ombudsman in Aug 2017. We email them every month for an update. Informed in Dec that our complaint was referred for adjudication in April 2019 and we would have a decision early in New Year.  Latest response was that Ombudsman would be issuing a preliminary decision in the near future. Does anyone have any experience of how long this process drags on for, also what do they mean by preliminary decision and why does it take so long?


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Apr 2020)

The Ombudsman first makes a preliminary decision. 

Both sides are then given an opportunity to make further observations but within a very narrow range e.g. Omission of a fact, An error in law or a factual error, if I recall correctly. 

It is not for one party to argue all the points again. 

My understanding is that the Preliminary Decision stands over 90% of the time. 

It is then issued as a legally binding decision.  Each side then has 35 calendar days to appeal it to the High Court. 

Brendan


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## bluestilton (27 Apr 2020)

Thank you. Are they inundated with complaints or are they just particularly slow in dealing with matters? I can't for the life of me figure out how this could take almost three years.  It sounds from what you are saying Brendan that I will be waiting several months more. I wonder has anyone had a decision on a complaint re a KBC tracker.


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Apr 2020)

I suspect that the Ombudsman is prioritising "cohort" complaints.

For example, they probably got 50 complaints on the AIB Prevailing Rate issue.  It would make practical sense to prioritise one of those and issue a decision.  AIB has asked the Ombudsman to put the rest on hold, pending their implementation of that decision. 

The work which goes into each adjudication is huge.   So it takes a lot of time. 

The trackers are particularly tricky. And borrowers have a tendency to make their complaints complex and raise all sorts of side arguments which makes the work of the Ombudsman even harder.

Brendan


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## Dpdp01050842 (28 Apr 2020)

My complaint was submitted in 2017 also. The investigation side finished in September 2018. It has been in the phase “drafting a preliminary decision since March 2019. I was told this phase would take 6-12 months but it is now 13 months. 2 months ago I was told I would have a decision in the coming weeks. This week I was told I would have a decision whenever they could provide it with no timeline given.

I would think both our cases should have a preliminary decision this year. My case is not complex and I didn’t engage in response tennis during the investigation phase.


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## bluestilton (28 Apr 2020)

Thank you. I have been going back through the email responses  from the FSPO since we submitted the complaint. The responses from the Ombudsman don't give me any faith that the matter will be dealt with any time soon, busy or not it is not acceptable to give continued vague responses to requests for update. I appreciate that they are very busy, but I still cannot understand why it is taking so long. I work in the public sector also and I doubt that the organisation I work for would get away with dragging out a complaint or issue for three years without giving a specific time frame for decision to the consumer/complainant.


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## Dpdp01050842 (28 Apr 2020)

I can’t get even speak to anyone to discuss things. I called and they said due to specifics around my case they cannot talk to me over the phone and everything needs to be in written form.

I can’t understand how it has taken 30 months to get to to this point.


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## bluestilton (28 Apr 2020)

I have a trail of emails, I email every 6 weeks asking for an update. I wonder what is the turnaround time in the FSPO or equivalent in the UK?  A year to 18 months I can understand as there are no doubt legal issues involved but anything longer is a farce.


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## Jazzer1 (11 Aug 2020)

bluestilton said:


> have a trail of emails, I email every 6 weeks


Hi bluestilton, Have you received any update from the Ombudsman on your case?


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## Covid20 (12 Aug 2020)

Hi , I am just wondering does anyone fully know where all the KBC cases are at, I do know that the AIB and other Bank tracker cases seem to be resolved but the KBC cases appear to be left on the 'long finger' .


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## Jazzer1 (25 Aug 2020)

Update on Infamous Flyer case with Ombudsman.

My case was forwarded to the Ombudsman 7 weeks ago. 
                           I received confirmation the following week that the Ombudsman would try and use mediation techniques to resolve the issue first. 
                            Late last week I received confirmation that the mediation techniques were unsuccessful and my case has moved to Investigation and Adjudication. I have 20 days to submit any other information that may help my case. 
                          It seems that the Ombudsman office is becoming a lot quicker in processing cases now.


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## Covid20 (25 Aug 2020)

Jazzer1 said:


> Update on Infamous Flyer case with Ombudsman.
> 
> My case was forwarded to the Ombudsman 7 weeks ago.
> I received confirmation the following week that the Ombudsman would try and use mediation techniques to resolve the issue first.
> ...


Hi Jazzer,
What does all this mean, are they dealing with cases individually or as groups / cohorts?


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## Jazzer1 (25 Aug 2020)

P. Kissane is dealing with my case, as far as I am aware, my case went to the Ombudsman with other cases relating to the infamous Flyer. I think that is what the Ombudsman wants, instead of similar individual case coming to him.


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## Covid20 (25 Aug 2020)

Jazzer1 said:


> P. Kissane is dealing with my case, as far as I am aware, my case went to the Ombudsman with other cases relating to the infamous Flyer. I think that is what the Ombudsman wants, instead of similar individual case coming to him.


Thank you Jazzer, I was speaking to a well known Broker today and he informed me that these KBC 'Flyer' cases are being looked at as a group and once the Ombudsman makes a ruling on one case it will have a knock on impact on the other / similiar cases.


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## B26354 (25 Aug 2020)

Concern is that banks will concede to individual customers who have the flyer in their possession and have presented it to the FSPO. Banks will then hope the FSPO will not have to make a decision that could be applied to a wider cohort. Hopefully the FSPO sees through this strategy and sees any concession from a bank as an admission of guilt and applies a ruling to one case that impacts all accounts.


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## Jazzer1 (26 Aug 2020)

The KBC cases are not getting media attention like the other banks did. We are a small group left and there is no political pressure been mounted on them. As I said my case has gone to investigation and the result of my case will have a wider impact what ever the verdict. In my view, it will be down to KBC being able to prove that they pulled the Flyer in mid Feb 08 like they said and not July 08 when they were still selling the same product to customers.


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## Covid20 (8 Sep 2020)

Jazzer1 said:


> The KBC cases are not getting media attention like the other banks did. We are a small group left and there is no political pressure been mounted on them. As I said my case has gone to investigation and the result of my case will have a wider impact what ever the verdict. In my view, it will be down to KBC being able to prove that they pulled the Flyer in mid Feb 08 like they said and not July 08 when they were still selling the same product to customers.


The KBC cases appear to be taking longer than the other Banks for some reason, am I correct in saying that if there is an Ombudsman decision on one KBC case that there will be a 'knock on 'effect on the others in the 'cohort'?


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## Jazzer1 (8 Sep 2020)

Hi Covid20, That is my understanding of it.


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## Guernlad (21 Sep 2020)

Jazzer1 said:


> The KBC cases are not getting media attention like the other banks did. We are a small group left and there is no political pressure been mounted on them. As I said my case has gone to investigation and the result of my case will have a wider impact what ever the verdict. In my view, it will be down to KBC being able to prove that they pulled the Flyer in mid Feb 08 like they said and not July 08 when they were still selling the same product to customers.


It's on the public record which Dara Deering states that KBC was  offering tracker mortgages to new customers in April 08 and upto 4th July 08 to existing customers. 
Whether this is true or not however its clear cut for existing customers


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## Covid20 (22 Sep 2020)

Guernlad said:


> It's on the public record which Dara Deering states that KBC was  offering tracker mortgages to new customers in April 08 and upto 4th July 08 to existing customers.
> Whether this is true or not however its clear cut for existing customers


Hi Guernlad, What does this mean to KBC clients like I, who started out on a fixed rate in Nov'06 and 3 years later went onto a standard variable which is now 4.75%?


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## Guernlad (23 Sep 2020)

Covid20 said:


> Hi Guernlad, What does this mean to KBC clients like I, who started out on a fixed rate in Nov'06 and 3 years later went onto a standard variable which is now 4.75%?


If 3 years later leads to November 09, me thinks that tracker not available by Kbc.
The last or closing date kbc stated on public record by dara deering is upto 4th July 08 for existing customers.

It is very easy for anyone to find out what rates and products were offered by IIB / kbc over any period of time.
The company Moneymate produced this data every Sunday for the Sunday newspapers. 
All old papers are all on file with libraries.
The company moneymate was bought out in 2017 by a company called Longboat Analyical which still has all this info. on file. I this for a fact.
To support my own case against kbc not offering me a tracker mortgage even though my broker asked for it and it was still available as a product  I have this valuable information from Moneymate / Longboat Anzlytical to support my claim.
The worst thing Dara Deering did was to try and be clever and state actual dates which were favorable to KBC....


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