# What happens if I stop paying my mortgage?



## cremeegg (5 Mar 2018)

I am 15 years in to a 25 year mortgage. Tracker rate ECB plus 0.75%, no arrears.

The monthly payments are nearly €1,000. I would much prefer to spend this money on a holiday. What happens if I stop paying. 

As a self employed person with lots of dependent children I could easily produce an SFS showing an inability to pay.

Threatening letters and nasty phone calls wouldn't register with me. I do not expect to ever need to borrow money in the future. I have never had a car loan.

I'm interested to know what the real consequences to me of a decision to stop or greatly reduce my monthly payments might be.


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## newtothis (5 Mar 2018)

cremeegg said:


> I'm interested to know what the real consequences to me of a decision to stop or greatly reduce my monthly payments might be.



I'm assuming this isn't something you're actually thinking of doing, but a hypothetical to raise a point?

I would say the real consequence is that you’re opening yourself up to some long-term hassle and grief at the very least. One of the main complaints of the “can’t pay” people is that there’s no end in sight, even when they’ve partially or even fully recovered their ability to pay. The thought of willingly opening yourself up to the situation is mind-bending. Easy to say it would be water off a duck’s back, but if you’re faced with court appearances and the like, it’s a different story.

I don’t think there’s any real evidence you’d ultimately get away with it, and you would probably end up paying a lot more in interest than you otherwise would have. It would probably take a very long time to unwind for you, but it almost certainly would.


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## cremeegg (5 Mar 2018)

Hi Breakonthru. It is my PPR and I have no intention of moving. There is substantial equity, I bought it 15 years ago with a deposit and have been repaying cap & int. since.



newtothis said:


> I'm assuming this isn't something you're actually thinking of doing, but a hypothetical to raise a point?



Well it started out as a hypothetical but I am open to persuasion. Actually I am wondering what arguments there might be to persuade me not to go this route.



newtothis said:


> I would say the real consequence is that you’re opening yourself up to some long-term hassle and grief at the very least. One of the main complaints of the “can’t pay” people is that there’s no end in sight, even when they’ve partially or even fully recovered their ability to pay. The thought of willingly opening yourself up to the situation is mind-bending. Easy to say it would be water off a duck’s back, but if you’re faced with court appearances and the like, it’s a different story.



I'm trying to discover what exactly is the nature of this hassle and grief. Letters and phone calls are just so much air. A court appearance or two after a few years, is just a few days work preparing and a day in court. Very little effort really for €1,000 a month every month. 

If I were to go into this with my eyes open I could hardly complain that there is "no end in sight". In fact that seems an advantage, I stop paying my mortgage and nothing comes to an end.



newtothis said:


> I don’t think there’s any real evidence you’d ultimately get away with it, and you would probably end up paying a lot more in interest than you otherwise would have. It would probably take a very long time to unwind for you, but it almost certainly would.



There seems to be very little evidence that I would not "get away with it" as you say. For example would I loose my tracker. If not then the interest costs would not come to very much extra.

In time you say it would unwind, well how? And if it did would I not get the opportunity to recommence paying to further extend.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2018)

Hi cremeegg

If you can pay your mortgage, you should do so.

You will own your home mortgage-free earlier 

Your credit record will not be affected so you will be able to borrow again for normal credit purposes or to trade up

Your mortgage is less likely to be sold to a vulture fund
If you don't pay your mortgage

While there is a very small risk at present of the lender being able to repossess, this might change. In fact, I am campaigning for it to change so that a lender can fast track repossessions against those who don't pay
The arrears will build up and the longer you leave it, the more difficult it becomes to solve. 

Your mortgage is more likely to be sold to a vulture fun.


But to answer the question you asked...

Very little would happen. It would depend to some extent on what bank you are with and which county you live in.

If you owe €100,000 today, you would owe €100,750 after one year. €101,500 after two years.

The lenders  don't charge penalty interest on arrears - even on trackers.

Depending on the lender, you would get a few calls- ignore them.  You might even get a letter or two - ignore them. 

Eventually they will refer the case to a solicitor. They will write to you. Ignore it.

They will issue proceedings but then comes the tricky bit for them - they have to find you to serve them on you.

You will get a Registered Letter.   Refuse it.

A summons server might well call to the door. Make sure not to answer it.

(If there are two names on the mortgage, they have to find both of you.)

The banks and their solicitors are so disorganised that they might well let the proceedings run out of time, and they will have to go back to court to get a New Return Date.

Then they would have to apply to the court for Substitute Service - maybe the Registrar would give the bank permission to pin the summons on your front door.

Some years after you stop paying, your case would come up in the Circuit Court.

You would get what is called a Practice Direction Adjournment on your first visit to give you time to engage with your lender. There is no need to attend. This is granted automatically, whether or not you show up in court, or whether or not you have paid anything for some years.

At the next court appearance, you should probably attend and  you could argue that you have done your best to engage, but the bank just won't engage with you.

With any luck, something else might happen to delay it

A new Companies Act might require them to add or subtract DAC from their name, but they didn't get around to doing it.
They might have sold your loan to a vulture fund, but forgotten to register it properly
If you do absolutely nothing, don't pay anything at all, and don't show up in court, they will eventually reach a situation where the Registrar will be prepared to grant them an order.

It's very likely that the solicitors will have messed this up and wont' get the order.

They probably forgot to serve notice of something on you
Or they don't have an up to date statement of account 

Or they don't have an affidavit that they adhered to the CCMA 

Or they don't have an affidavit that you are not affected by the TRacker Mortgage Scandal (despite the fact that you have a tracker mortgage.)
(There are probably around 20 more hurdles for them to slip on.)
Or it's even possible that on one of the occasions, the solicitor might not show up and the proceedings are dismissed for want of prosecution.

You probably should start taking some notice of it at that stage. There are a few options

A few days before the hearing submit a half completed SFS - the bank will apply for an adjournment to consider it. 

There is a good chance that they won't have finished considering it by the adjourned date, so they will apply for another adjournment. 

At the next adjournment, tell the Registrar that you have just met MABS outside the court and have made an appointment to meet with them. You will get another adjournment. In fact, there is a good chance that the Registrar will ask you if you have consulted MABS and then adjourn it to allow you to do so. If so, pick a very busy MABS which won't be able to give you an appointment until after the adjourned date. 

At the adjourned hearing, tell the Registrar that you have made an appointment with a PIP - that will give you another few months
At the next hearing,  tell the Registrar that the PIP has applied for a Protective Order and you will get another adjournment. 

Then tell the Registrar that the PIA wasn't appropriate, so you are applying for Mortgage to Rent. 

Somewhere along the way, make sure that your spouse, child or parent is sick so request another adjournment
After some years, they _might _get an order for possession.

You should probably take it seriously at that stage and start paying.  The lender will probably agree a restructuring with you.

If you are with Bank of Ireland or a vulture fund, then you should probably be a bit more careful.  They are more serious and better organised.  They are far more likely to get an order against you and to execute that order.  If you are with ptsb or AIB, it's unlikely that they will be able to clear all the hurdles.

Check your local Registrar's Court to see what you can get away with. For example, if you are in Wicklow, the Registrar there will  see through this.

*An alternative strategy 
*
Pay something from time to time
When they send you an SFS,  half fill it in and send it back.
They will ask you for more information
Give it to them in dribs and drabs

If they don't give you an alternative payment arrangement, appeal it.
When they reject that, appeal the process to the Financial Services Ombudsman

Study the CCMA in detail. You should be able to find some breach of it.

Show up in court and tell the Registrar you are doing your best.

*Things to avoid if you don't want an order against you
*
Don't make a legal argument e.g. That the bank's loan to you was irresponsible. The Registrar will send it to the Judge's List and this is the last thing you want. The Judge will probably make a decision.

Don't shout at the Registrar or Judge.

Avoid the anti-repossession advisors. They will make spurious legal arguments which could speed up your case. There is no need for them.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2018)

I am campaigning to stop behaviour like this.  

I want a fast track repossession process for people who don't pay anything.  

But no politician will agree with me. 

Brendan


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## Sarenco (5 Mar 2018)

Hi Brendan

It's kind of shocking when you see the reality laid out like that - our system really is a charter for strategic default.

Amazing that anybody bothers to make mortgage repayments.


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## RedOnion (5 Mar 2018)

Excellent summary @Brendan Burgess


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## newtothis (5 Mar 2018)

Three statements stand out to me:



Brendan Burgess said:


> After some years, they _might _get an order for possession.



So, it might just happen.




Brendan Burgess said:


> Check your local Registrar's Court to see what you can get away with. For example, if you are in Wicklow, the Registrar there will  see through this.



What if the registrar changes to a new one for your next court appearance? 



Brendan Burgess said:


> Don't make a legal argument e.g. That the bank's loan to you was irresponsible. The Registrar will send it to the Judge's List and this is the last thing you want. The Judge will probably make a decision



Or they see through what you're up to and do that anyway?

Do you really want to take that kind of risk with your home?

I'm not saying the system isn't in need of reform, but my point is there is a non-trivial risk that you will lose your home. Do you really want to live with that hanging over you? It's mind boggling to me that anyone would take on that kind of stress when they don't need to.
​


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## Fella (5 Mar 2018)

Is it wise to show people how easy this is ? I’m sure some people are going to read this and decide it’s worthwhile.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2018)

newtothis said:


> It's mind boggling to me that anyone would take on that kind of stress when they don't need to



Hi newtothis

Agree fully with you and so do 95% of people in arrears, but apparently cremeegg is made of stronger stuff than we are:



cremeegg said:


> Threatening letters and nasty phone calls wouldn't register with me.


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## Andy836 (6 Mar 2018)

newtothis said:


> I'm not saying the system isn't in need of reform, but my point is there is a non-trivial risk that you will lose your home. Do you really want to live with that hanging over you? *It's mind boggling to me that anyone would take on that kind of stress when they don't need to*.
> ​



Seriously? What stress?

The person literally has to do nothing and they get free accommodation for years. Then they've to turn up in court a handful of times to get another few years on the free.

Anyone who gets "stressed" by phone calls or bits of paper in the mail probably shouldn't get a mortgage. They probably shouldn't have a driver's license or operate heavy equipment either.......


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## noproblem (6 Mar 2018)

To be honest and blunt, this particular thread is nothing more than someone advocating fraud. You get a loan from someone, you pay it back. It's called manning up. The snow is almost gone, hope the flakes do too. There's enough parasites living off the system.


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## newtothis (6 Mar 2018)

Andy836 said:


> Anyone who gets "stressed" by phone calls or bits of paper in the mail probably shouldn't get a mortgage.



So, you're saying you wouldn't find it stressful you could loose your home at pretty much anytime? It's not just pieces of paper and phone calls. Pretty much everyone in the legal world will tell you that there is absolutely no certainty of outcome in attending a court. Not much of a problem when the stakes are relatively low such as points on a driving license, but your home? As I said, mind boggling.....


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## cremeegg (6 Mar 2018)

newtothis said:


> So, you're saying you wouldn't find it stressful you could loose your home at pretty much anytime? ...



If I believed that I could loose my home at any time I am sure I would find it extremely stressful. 

Nothing on this thread or elsewhere indicates that if I stopped paying my mortgage I would be in that situation.


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## Firefly (6 Mar 2018)

Excellent post Brendan and quite worrying.

I wonder, as is the case with insurance firms who catch out dodgy claimants who post themselves weight lifting on Facebook and the like, in the case of strategic defaulters, will the banks employ similar tactics? Could the also present postings on Facebook and/or photos of people they think are strategically defaulting engaging in expensive activities such as holidays??


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## newtothis (6 Mar 2018)

cremeegg said:


> If I believed that I could loose my home at any time I am sure I would find it extremely stressful.
> 
> Nothing on this thread or elsewhere indicates that if I stopped paying my mortgage I would be in that situation.



Then I think you should re-read it more carefully, especially Brendan's posts and the items in them I highlighted. For sure, it's a long and protracted process, but each and every time you step into a court you are taking a risk, which is what I meant when I said it could happen at any time. There are plenty of cases where messers have been thrown out of their homes who then splutter: "but, but, but...." when it's too late. The risk may be low, especially in the near term, but the stakes are very high. I can live with long odds when it comes to buying a lottery ticket, but not when loosing the roof over my head, especially if those odds shorten with each passing day. If you can't see this and lack the imagination to be stressed by it, good luck to you, but you'll need it. You won't get any sympathy when things go wrong as they almost certainly will in the long term.....


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## newtothis (6 Mar 2018)

Firefly said:


> Excellent post Brendan and quite worrying.
> 
> I wonder, as is the case with insurance firms who catch out dodgy claimants who post themselves weight lifting on Facebook and the like, in the case of strategic defaulters, will the banks employ similar tactics? Could the also present postings on Facebook and/or photos of people they think are strategically defaulting engaging in expensive activities such as holidays??



Exactly, and even if they don't, you have the stress of wondering "what if they do?". Of course, you can live in a fool's paradise for a while, willfully and blissfully ignoring the axe hanging over you (and your family's) head.......


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## Fella (6 Mar 2018)

I find this thread deeply upsetting , as a father to 2 young children I wonder what direction this country is going. Where has it all gone wrong? People used to have some pride and would pay what was due now it seems to be a free for all get away with what you can . I'm not blaming individuals it is very difficult to work hard and cut your cloth to measure only to see others been handed stuff for nothing. 

I had a chat with a guy a few months ago and it really really annoyed me , basically the gist of it was - He works with me , he is renting an apartment and paying 1800 a month I was saying thats colossal on your wages , he said he is living on his own till his "mot" gets a place shes moving into new 4 bed in Swords , digging deeper it appears they were renting a place supposedly split up she moved back to her ma's with 4 kids , she got a hotel room been homeless for 3 years and has now been given a house in a new development in Swords . This new development is lovely and I would love to live there myself but it would be a tight stretch for me to afford it. He said not only that but fingal county council are going to tile it all and put new furniture in , then he will move in. He says " they are throwing houses at people " just say your homeless get a hotel room "my mot never seen the inside of the hotel room" she stayed in her ma's and the kids with me most nights.

I haven't verified any of the above it sounds plausible , I was just too ****** off to even check the details. 

What can be done about all this ?
Why are the government housing people in expensive new builds? 
If we make it less appealing to people ie. house them in run down areas , I think we are less likely to see people follow this path. 
It seems to be that there are certain people from areas that know how to play the system so well. 
I find the whole thing disgusting.


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## Fella (6 Mar 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Somewhere along the way, make sure that your spouse, child or parent is sick so request another adjournment



Brendan what has happened your postings on this site , your rules are not consistent I had a post deleted before because I discussed if government brought in some wealth tax I could withdraw my investments and hide my money in Betfair , it was deleted because it didn't meet the posting guidelines , but it seems its ok to give people a guide on the best way to stop paying the mortgage and get away with me. Disappointed in this site.


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## LS400 (6 Mar 2018)

Hold on a moment,

Typical of folk here to sound off at the person highlighting the pathetic state of our legal system with regard to reprocessing a property in this Country. Would you all just prefer to assume this carry-on just doesn't happen and go back to sticking your heads in the sand.  

Creamegg imo, would be fairy savvy, and in his op post, is asking a very valid question. "What should I fear in This Country" by not honoring my debts, Its so vaild, that as word spreads how easy it is, there are folk who see themselves as fools for not giving it a go. 

Brendan has explained in great detail, that if you want to frustrate the system, its too easy. He is not saying you need to do this, but purely pointing out, the system not only lets you, but encourages you to do so.


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## mtk (6 Mar 2018)

I have to say I am a little disappointed/concerned  that Brendan's post  could inadvertently encourage  strategic defaulters


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## Thirsty (6 Mar 2018)

> Brendan's post could inadvertently encourage strategic defaulters


I very much doubt it.  Anyone in that position has worked all this out already, not so hard.

I read Brendan's post with great amusement, granted it's a somewhat cynical view, but I'm reasonably certain there are more than a few documented cases which will support many of the points.

In regards to @Fella's post - I would well believe it - Conor Skehan made this very point some time back and was vilified.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soc...cy-housing-may-be-gaming-the-system-1.3342289


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## Andy836 (6 Mar 2018)

newtothis said:


> So, you're saying you wouldn't find it stressful you could loose your home at pretty much anytime? It's not just pieces of paper and phone calls. Pretty much everyone in the legal world will tell you that there is absolutely no certainty of outcome in attending a court. Not much of a problem when the stakes are relatively low such as points on a driving license, but your home? As I said, mind boggling.....



No, I wouldn't find it stressful. I'm an adult.

"loose your home at pretty much anytime"
The point is, you can't. It takes years from the first non payment to actually "loosing your home". 
That's the whole point of this thread. 
No one in Ireland has missed a payment and then lost their home. The whole system is designed and operated to ensure that people cannot loose their house for years on end.

And think of it another way:
"loose your home at pretty much anytime"
It's not "anytime". After years in the legal process, the judge might eventually hand down a repossession order. However, they always, always put a stay on the execution. 
For a family home its typically 6 to 12 months which can be extended if you then make an effort to pay.
Now compare that 6 to 12 month "notice period" with "renting". 
Is renting stressful? Once you're lease expires you can "loose your home" however the "stay" (i.e. notice period) is only max 2 months.

Are renters just mentally stronger humans than mortgage borrowers? 

This whole thing is way too sentimental.


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## newtothis (6 Mar 2018)

Andy836 said:


> No, I wouldn't find it stressful. I'm an adult.



I think you're still missing the point. It's not the risk that causes the stress, it's the stakes that are involved. Would you find it stressful to play roulette at €1 a go? probably not. Now, would you find it stressful to play Russian roulette, where the stake is you loose your life if you loose? I'm guessing you probably would.



Andy836 said:


> The point is, you can't. It takes years from the first non payment to actually "loosing your home".



Er, the point is: "you can". You're mistaking what commonly happens with what might and sometimes does happen. The fact it takes years simply extends the period where you're subject to that stress: it can happen at any point in that journey, with the odds shortening as time passes.
​


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## cremeegg (7 Mar 2018)

Thanks for all the comments. Certainly food for thought.




Brendan Burgess said:


> If you owe €100,000 today, you would owe €100,750 after one year. €101,500 after two years.
> 
> The lenders  don't charge penalty interest on arrears - even on trackers.



Great post Brendan. I certainly had not been aware of this. It seems to make the whole thing a bit of a one way bet.

I think for my next thread it will be "what happens if I don't pay my rent"


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Mar 2018)

cremeegg said:


> "what happens if I don't pay my rent



Are you a council tenant or the tenant of a private landlord?


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## Fella (7 Mar 2018)

cremeegg said:


> Great post Brendan. I certainly had not been aware of this. It seems to make the whole thing a bit of a one way bet



it’s not a one way bet it’s theft , I was in shop with my kid he walked out with a toy he took off the shelf i realised when we were in the car in car park , i brought it back to shops , i could of got away with it but i’m know the difference between right and wrong. 
you are stealing if you borrow and refuse to pay money back just because you can get away with it , it doesn’t matter how many others do it , you owe the money you borrowed it in good faith with the intention of paying it back, so pay it back . Somebody else will have to pay if you don’t the money won’t just disappear it makes from the system.


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## zen (12 Apr 2018)

I think its a valid question from the OP and a (surprisingly) robust answer from the moderator who is simply laying it out as it is and not advocating defaulting, this is self evident in his subsequent post that he is campaigning against this (which I oppose him doing). However, I see Brendan in a more fairer light than I had suspected for years.  Its the immense anxiety of not knowing what or when something will happen that is the real stress maker.  People are not stupid, they're just not informed of the processes that dictate their lives.

My two cents.  

People seem to be forgetting that the government works for the people, not the other way round, and the banks are supposed to be providing a service but went rogue to the point of almost wreaking the government.

The banks crippled this country, the government know it and the people know it.  Keep that as a massive backdrop in your hasty responses.  People are suffering.  I'm tired hearing "you borrowed the money pay it back" as if it was a level playing field, as if there was an equal amount of credit and debit.  Its a ponzi scheme, we all know this now, money is loaned into existence so where to the banks get off add interest!

Its up to the government/judiciary to grant or not grant eviction notices.  And why should they be so hasty to work FOR wreak-less lenders who made speculation their business model and brought them to their knees?  They held a gun up to the late Brian Lenihans head for the bail-out.  Remember the infamous phone-call from Anglo,,,, "give us the moolaah"!  The audacity!

I think the Irish government are using this bureaucracy as a two fingers to the banks.  In other words, you lent recklessly and now you want us (the government) to throw our own citizens onto the streets only for us to have to re-house them? I don't think so!... They are throwing this hot potato at each other, its a sick game.

There will be obviously people out to take advantage of any system, C'est la vie.  This is people reacting completely natural to an unnatural system.  My generation were nailed and we're very angry.

Not one person in the financial arena has been held account to what happened. What infuriates me to no end is the constant battering and blaming of the victims.  The discussion in the mainstream is only about how are people are dealing with what happened and NOT about what or who caused it, as it rightly should be.  

Nothing changes if nothing changes.  No lessons were learnt from this, its business as usual.  

Give a loan with vague details, no insight on mortgage arrears process or calculation methods, 

force them to take out insurance that benefits the lender..., 

devalue the property
country goes into recession
debtor gets into difficulty
kick him out
filp the property to another sucker and restart the process all over again .......

The OP's query is a reflection of how people are dealing with this, they're trying to educate themselves.  You need to find out where all the snares and trip wires have been laid.  

Banks want nothing more than you to fall into arrears.  I have not gotten any arrears policy or insight as to how they are calculating them nor would they even give me a full mortgage account statement so I could backward calculate how they are doing it.  It's insane.  I'm glad the Judiciary have this buffer zone bureaucracy and Brendan shared it for genuine sufferers.  I've no time for people playing the system whatsoever, on both sides of the fence. 

zen


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## dub_nerd (12 Apr 2018)

zen said:


> People are not stupid, they're just not informed of the processes that dictate their lives.



How do you think people would react if they were told they can't have a loan because they're too poorly educated? They'd have a hissy fit. If you take a loan it's your own responsibility to make sure you are sufficiently educated. In particular you should realise that just because everyone else is doing it does not make it a safe bet. There were stories going around for literally years about how we at least _might_ be in a property bubble. Everyone who bought property did so armed with the knowledge of that risk unless they genuinely _were_ stupid.



zen said:


> I'm tired hearing "you borrowed the money pay it back" as if it was a level playing field, as if there was an equal amount of credit and debit.  Its a ponzi scheme, we all know this now, money is loaned into existence so where to the banks get off add interest!



This is nonsense that gets posted on  conspiracy websites and a bunch of people hear it so often they think its true. The mistake is confusing money with wealth. Money is an accounting mechanism. Wealth does _not_ get loaned into existence. If a builder builds a house he has created wealth through his labour in constructing it from raw materials. The buyer will create wealth in the future by earning money from his own labour. The money lent by the bank is just the accounting mechanism that keeps track of the amount of future labour that the buyer must do to balance the wealth embodied in the house. The money is not a creation of anything in its own right. The interest is what the buyer must pay for the privilege of getting wealth now that he has not yet earned.



zen said:


> Its up to the government/judiciary to grant or not grant eviction notices.  And why should they be so hasty to work FOR wreak-less lenders who made speculation their business model and brought them to their knees?



Because the rest of us already paid for the bailouts. The people who are not paying their mortgage are not paying for the bailouts.



zen said:


> There will be obviously people out to take advantage of any system, C'est la vie.  This is people reacting completely natural to an unnatural system.  My generation were nailed and we're very angry.



You don't speak for an entire generation. I'm one of "your generation". I didn't touch the mad property market with a barge pole because it was so obvious everyone had gone nuts. Then, having done the sensible thing by not purchasing, I ended up paying more than the average person's entire mortgage in extra taxes to bail you all out. I'm bloody angry too -- if you're one of the defaulters you're squatting in my house.



zen said:


> Nothing changes if nothing changes.  No lessons were learnt from this, its business as usual.



You're wrong.  The lesson that is being learned is that you can have a house without paying for it.



zen said:


> I've no time for people playing the system whatsoever, on both sides of the fence.



Good, well then my rant doesn't apply to you.


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## Leo (13 Apr 2018)

zen said:


> Give a loan with vague details, no insight on mortgage arrears process or calculation methods,



Expecting a financial institution to fully educate borrowers on these matters is like expecting a car dealer to do likewise on road traffic legislation with their customers.


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## Clamball (13 Apr 2018)

Cremeege, I think it would work very well if you continued to pay something every month, maybe interest only for the first 12 months (after asking the banks etc).  Then interest and a bit of capital (but vary it, €50, €100, up or down). 

Use the money you were paying the mortgage with to have a better lifestyle, holidays, breaks, invest in your kids education, GAA, soccer, ballet, music, whatever.  Give them every opportunity that you might not have been able to if you were using your money to pay the mortgage.   Then when they are all through school, college, family holidays, begin to pay full interest and capital again.   Esentially you have given yourself a mortgage holiday for 10 years.   

Hopefully the courts will protect you from the heavy handed banks, since you always pay something every month, and are trying your best.

You will have invested the money in your family when it was needed and extended the mortgage term, paid a bit more overall but did not have a poor lifestyle by prioritising the mortgage.   

Not saying I would do this or cope with the stress if I did but many people sleep easy at night with lots of debt, and in the last 10 years the banks have been constrained from easy repossessions.   I am sure many people did become strategic defaulters over the last 10 years.


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## Firefly (16 Apr 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi cremeegg
> 
> If you can pay your mortgage, you should do so.
> 
> You will own your home mortgage-free earlier


This is  key for me. Unless people get a write-down, thanks to the magic that is compound interest, not paying means making the problem worse down to road. Some may well die without having repaid the loan in full, but there will be nothing left to pass onto their children.....


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## Carnmore (16 Apr 2018)

Nobody forced you to take out the loan - it was your choice; you sought, read the statutory warnings and signed for the loan so you should pay it back and if you don't the house should be repossessed as quickly as possible. 

"The banks" do not pick up the tab for mortgages in default - society does as the debt gets socialised and factored in to the standard variable mortgage rate paid by those with the personal integrity to do whatever it takes to meet their monthly mortgage repayments. 

I strongly agree with Brendan's attempts to get accelerated repossession enacted. 

This is a contemptible proposition and epitomises the growing narcissism of society in general.


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## cremeegg (16 Apr 2018)

Firefly said:


> This is  key for me. Unless people get a write-down, thanks to the magic that is compound interest, not paying means making the problem worse down to road.



With a tracker at 0.75% over ECB, it would be an extremely long road.


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## cremeegg (16 Apr 2018)

I just want to pick up on a point that a number of posters seem to have missed, Carnmore encapsulates it here.



Carnmore said:


> you should pay it back and if you don't the house should be repossessed as quickly as possible.



The question was, what would happen, not what should happen.

and here



Carnmore said:


> This is a contemptible proposition and epitomises the growing narcissism of society in general.



It was a question not a proposition. My narcissi were late this year by the way, and are looking very bedraggled at the moment in the rain.


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## usernameinuse (29 Apr 2018)

zen said:


> The banks crippled this country, the government know it and the people know it.


Correct.  And it was not always 100% the borrowers fault. The Banks were the Mortgage Experts, with decades of experience, and gave advice in their area of expertise. It was their job to know their job. The fact the banks themselves had to be bailed out shows they did not. If and when that advice they gave was incorrect they should pay for it. During the Celtic Tiger, Ireland was known worldwide in banking circles as "the Wild West", because certain bankers here behaved so recklessly.

Should a lender have lent money if they knew the borrower would be unable to pay it back, for example if the loan is 15 times the persons salary? Morally at least, no.  As someone else said, how would it be if for example a nurse or doctor gave you incorrect information regarding medication or treatment for say your 6 year old Child or your 80 year old Mother and it caused them serious harm. Would the nurse be to blame or would it be your fault for being stupid in acting on her expert advice?




zen said:


> Its up to the government/judiciary to grant or not grant eviction notices.  And why should they be so hasty to work FOR wreak-less lenders who made speculation their business model and brought them to their knees?  They held a gun up to the late Brian Lenihans head for the bail-out.  Remember the infamous phone-call from Anglo,,,, "give us the moolaah"!  The audacity!
> 
> I think the Irish government are using this bureaucracy as a two fingers to the banks.  In other words, you lent recklessly and now you want us (the government) to throw our own citizens onto the streets only for us to have to re-house them? I don't think so!... They are throwing this hot potato at each other, its a sick game.


You could look at it like that, but I think its a bit more complicated.  Your point about the audacity of certain bankers is true.  Remember the ex managing director of one small bailed out Irish Building Society,who retired with a pension of over 20 million, and he gave 2 fingers to our government?  He was said to be the sole person in that little building society who made lending decisions, depending on his humour that day, if the borrower was a journalist or not etc. 



zen said:


> Not one person in the financial arena has been held account to what happened.


Very few people in the financial arena have been held to account in Ireland. However, things are changing. In Iceland, a country with a population a fraction the size of Irelands, a few more bankers have been jailed recently, bringing the total there to over 30 I believe. I think people in Ireland are angry about how certain bankers got away with it and rode over the horizon with big bonuses and pensions after wrecking the country.


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