# The cheapest PRSA?



## Brendan Burgess

*The Best Value PRSA?*

www.myadviser.ie  will set up a New Ireland PRSA on a nil commission basis for a charge of €50. 100% of your contributions will be invested, so the only charge after that will be the 1% annual management charge.

Any similar good deals out there?

Brendan


----------



## Joey

*PRSA'*

Why New Ireland?


----------



## Savy

*PRSA!*

Joey,
It must be an offer that New Ireland are doing.

I'm actually purchasing this PRSA.


There are some good personal pernsions available on his site aswell, but PRSA flexibility is the key for me

Savy


----------



## Brendan Burgess

*Re: PRSA!*

Savy

What other PRSA options did you look at?

Brendan


----------



## Savy

*PRSA*

Brendan,
I looked at Eagle Star,Canada Life,Friends first,Hibernian,Irish Life and even New Ireland.

I had almost decided to go with the special offer of the personal pension from myadviser.ie(comparable to the occupational pension I was in-which I considered good).

I needed to be able to modify my payments fairly regularly and I thought that without the 5% entry charge drag on performance that this was the best PRSA plan. I certainly haven't seen yearly management fees of less than 1%. Have you?

 Savy.


----------



## Joey

*PRSA*

If you could have bought the same policy, ie 1% management fee, from any of the other providers mentioned would you have done so?

On a like for like basis, what was the attraction of New Ireland? Was it service? Was it their Default Investment Strategy? Was it their past performance?


----------



## Savy

*PRSA choice*

It was a number of things Joey.

no 5% entry fee on premiums paid.

For the year 2002 they had the second highest return(!!)
of -13.7% (average return was -18.9%)

Over the last 5 years they have had one of the best annualised return at 5.6%(Average was 2.4%)

Savy


----------



## AmandaC

*Nil Commision Pensions*

Eagle Star also appears to have a similar "nil commission" pension with only the 1% annual charge.  

Has anyone taken this out or know what the difference is between this and the New Ireland one?

Thanks


Amanda C.


----------



## Savy

*PRSA*

AmandaC, where did you see this offer?


----------



## AmandaC

*Pension*

We are in the process of setting up our PRSA in work and are getting brochures, etc. sent out.  In the Eagle Star one that was sent out, it did not mention the Nil commission one, but one of the other staff members got details on it. His wife works in the pension industry and was advised that there were two with nil commission,  the New Ireland one and the Eagle Star one. But he has taken the folder home to read through it and I wont be back in work till next Tuesday.  So I will post details then.


----------



## Merlin

*Re: Pension*

The Pensions Board have added [broken link removed] which has details of the charges on every PRSA available


----------



## Savy

*PRSA charges*

Nice one Merlin.

It looks Eagle Star have a standard prsa with 0% entry charge and .75% yearly charge(1% if with SuperCAPP)


----------



## Conan

*PRSAs*

I think you will see from the Pensions Board website that most providers have Standard (and non-standard) offerings with no Premium Charge (no 5%). The only charge on these offerings is the fund management charge, varying from 0.75% to 1%.
These offerings are, I think, non-commission, execution only versions where clients get no advice. For clients who know exactly what they want and need no advice/guidance, these versions are fine.


----------



## Savy

*PRSA*

Conan,
From the spreadsheet given I can only see Eagle Star
offering a PRSA of .75% annual management charge+0% entry fee

Savy


----------



## MyAdviser

*Re: PRSA*

Hi, all sorry for not replying sooner but I have been a bit up to my eyes.

No PRSA Provider is selling a Standard PRSA for  nil commission unless it is via a intermediary. I am not aware of any intermediary that is selling them for less than MyAdviser i.e New Ireland for just 50 euro and any other Providers PRSA (who sell via Brokers) for 100 euro. You get nil commission terms i.e. no 5% entry charge, for the life of your pension. There is no advise or service with this but then you also may not need these supports.

The reason why New Ireland is on a lower fee is because there is a general offer with their pensions where there is no fee or commission on any Executive or Personal Pension taken out with them. You get nil commission terms and it costs you nothing. I get a volume bonus on business placed on these contracts but not on the PRSA business. (as detailed on the web site) I felt that I should make the PRSA a bit cheaper just to fall into line but needed to be piad for executing the business.

Charges is not a discriminator for Standard PRSA's. Service may be but it is hard to sell this. Past Performance is a key one for me but I know there are others who feel it is a poor measure. Fund choice may make the difference - Standard life are offering their Non-Standard PRSA at Standard Rates and thus allowing their With Profits fund to be accessed at very low cost.

One final point is that if the level of flexibility on PRSA's is not everything to you and you can access pensions at nil commission rates (MyAdviser - excuse the plug Brendan)
 it will probably cost you less to set up a personal pension or executive pension. The reason is the annual management charge of 1% can be reduced to 0.75% and this makes a major difference for longer terms and larger investment amounts. In most cases nil commission standard prsa's can be beaten on charges by nil commission exec or personal pensions. flexibility is not everything.

I hope this helps.

Regards Michael

Authorised Advisor & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: PRSA*

Interesting info.

*One final point is that if the level of flexibility on PRSA's is not everything to you and you can access pensions at nil commission rates (MyAdviser - excuse the plug Brendan)...*

Not meaning to be picky/pendantic but I guess that should be _"for example - MyAdviser"_ - i.e. other intermediaries, not just _MyAdviser_, may offer similar terms? No harm in flagging the fact that you offer this sort of deal as long as it's clear that others may do so also (if that is the case). Apologies for labouring the point!  

*it will probably cost you less to set up a personal pension or executive pension. The reason is the annual management charge of 1% can be reduced to 0.75% and this makes a major difference for longer terms and larger investment amounts. In most cases nil commission standard prsa's can be beaten on charges by nil commission exec or personal pensions.*

This is very interesting and seems to be a distillation of the very point I have been trying to tease out for a long time now.


----------



## Jilly

*Re: PRSA*

In relation to Personal Pensions V's PRSAs, are there any restrictions on the term that the policies must be in force so as to avail of the favourable terms on Personal Pensions?.

Do all Personal Pension Plans have additional costs, such as policy fees?


----------



## MyAdviser

*Re: PRSA*

Jilly, the short answer is there is no required term. Each case is different but if you have a long term to retirement (15 year plus) and are making a significant contribution to your pension then the Personal Pension will be better value. That said, we are not talking about huge amounts so you need to weigh up the extra flexibility of the PRSA against the lower cost on the Personal Pension. Either way at nil commission and virtually no fee you are doing better then most.

Most Personal Pensions have policy fees but some do not. It is important to view costs together. PRSA's have 100% net allocation (via MyAdviser’s offer and possibly others) and most Personal Pension's do not but the impact of the lower annual management charge can more than make up for it.

Regards Michael Kiernan

Authorised Advisor & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie


----------



## joe

*Eaglestar pension as listed on website does not exist ??*

Maybe I misunderstand something here but I rang eaglestar about their pension as shown on the pensions board list - the one with 0% contribution charges and 0.75% and was told that this was incorrect that there was a 95% contribution rate (which equates with 5% charges I presume) and a 1 % management charge.

I was also told that "you get nothing for nothing these days - it used to be a 50% contribution charge" !!!

Does this PRSA exist or not ?


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Eaglestar pension as listed on website does not exist ??*

I thought the point was that you only get such deals (e.g. 100% allocation rate, 0.75% p.a. management fee) if you go through, say, an execution only intermediary possibly paying a single agreed up front flat fee directly to them (e.g. €50 - €100 or something in that ball park)? If you go to the underwriter directly then you may face other charges or a lower allocation rate etc. as seems to be the case here?


----------



## Joe

*Eaglestar*

Ah I see -

If the 1% charge per year is for fund management then the 5% goes to whoever got you to fill in the forms.


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Eaglestar*

Not quite. The 5% bid-offer spread goes to the same people that manage/underwrite the fund in many cases. The difference is that the 5% comes out of each contribution that you make while the 1% is calculated on the total value of the fund.


----------



## savy

*Fund value*

Here is some analysis that I have done on this PRSA vs Personal pension for New Ireland.

The prsa will be worth more each year than the value of the personal pension at the begining
(allocation % the big killer)

below is an approx table of when the charges of the personal pension reduce below that of the the prsa
.Also given is the amount by which the PRSA is bigger than the pension at that stage

So assuming that you could move to a personal pension from your prsa in the future for the same deal that you can get today, the year below gives last year that you should stay in the prsa.

Assumptions:6% growth, premium rises by 5%
allocation rate for personal pension is 97.38% when premium is below 508. Rate 98.8% when 508 or higher.


Investment-Amount(monthly)-----Year-------Difference

300-------------------------------12---------1462
400--------------------------------9---------1034
500--------------------------------8----------641
600--------------------------------7----------533
700--------------------------------7----------557
800--------------------------------7----------580
900--------------------------------6----------609
1000-------------------------------6----------640


----------



## Joe

*Cheapest PRSA*

Myadvisor.ie are currently setting me up with the Eagle Star pension for a fee of 100 euro. This is the pension which was listed on the website and has 0% contribution charges and 0.75% fund management charge.


----------



## MyAdviser

*Re: Cheapest PRSA*

Hi, just to be clear (and Brendan if you think this too much of an AD, you can take it off or rephrase it) you can buy any pension from MyAdviser.ie for 100 euro but it only saves you a lot of money if that pension provider pays commission to brokers.

Just because I can beat EBS , Quinn, ARK etc by 5% on a Standard PRSA (for example) does not mean you can buy their PRSA for less than going directly to them - you can't.

The New Ireland Offer gives you access to Personal & Executive and for that matter Group Pensions at nil commission for FREE - no fees. I think this is the first time pensions were for free. The PRSA's are at slightly reduced fee of 50 euro.

Once again that Pension Board list is not always applicable to the retail market and only intermediaries can cut intermediary commission. 

Regards Michael
Authorised Adviser & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie

PS Brendan should you have (or do you have) an area that covers what a discount broker does and how they can save you money?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

*Re: Cheapest PRSA*

Michael 

I do not consider this advertising. I asked the question in the initial topic and you have answered it and clarified other questions. You are not making any vague or unsubstantiated claims. You are just setting out your terms of business and the rationale behind them.

If any other broker wants to outline their charges, they are welcome to do so. 

I will be including Discount Brokers in the new Absolute Beginners Glossary. Do you think that it deserves a separate key post?

Brendan


----------



## Tim

*Non Commission Execution Only PRSAs*

As a self-employed person whose income varies considerably from month to month, I want to make a single payment annually at the same time as I am completing my Revenue On-Line Service tax return. There is a facility in the Form 11 that automatically calculates the maximum that can be saved to avail of the full tax break - in my case, for 2002, this is around E12,000. Next year it may be E100 or E100,000. I just don't know yet. 

As a 52 year old with no pension to date, I want to get as much information as I can so that, using my own best judgement (and accepting that there is a risk of my making a mistake), I can then engage a "non-commission execution-only intermediary" (such as MyAdviser.com). That way, apart from the 1% annual skim, all my money stays in my fund.

The frustration and the hassle begins as soon as I telephone the PRSA providers. Quite simply, their call-centre staff will not answer questions about their company's products if I am not going to use them to open the PRSA. "Ask your Broker" is their standard reply. The moment I ask a broker, I cease to benefit from the "non-commission execution-only intermediary" discounts. 

I thought we were supposed to be a Republic. How come then that a bright, intelligent, well-educated private citizen (as I flatter myself to be), but one without a degree in Finance or Economics or Pyramid Selling,  is completely flummoxed by jargon, twisting and half-facts circulated by the econoscavengers? No wonder whole sections of the public have given up believing in politicians and participation.


----------



## MyAdviser

*Re: Non Commission Execution Only PRSAs*

Hi, just to try to make things clear there is a market for pensions and life assurance in Ireland and it is much like many other markets. The providers of these services have wholesale prices and retail prices - much like any other business. The wholesale prices are used for intermediaries/brokers/accountants etc and the retail prices are used by this latter group and the providers when dealing with the public. This is no different than any other business which sells through intermediaries. 

Even the direct providers (e.g. AIB & BOI) who do not pay broker commission are selling at the market rate for PRSA's. They (especially AIB/EBS) have long been in the business of thinking they offer lower cost alternatives but now that they have the chance to prove it they cannot or won't do it. They could have set a 4% entry charge or 3% but hey went with the industry maximum of 5% entry charge.

It is up to the intermediaries to sell at discount prices, if that is the way they want to run their business. The providers tell customers to "talk to your broker" because they will not discount their price and undercut their intermediaries. Just because a customer knows that their is such a thing as nil commission prices, does not mean they can access them from the provider. There is over a 100% mark-up on cloths between the wholesale price and the retail price but that does not mean we all can get wholesale prices. Try ringing a car manufacturer and asking to buy from them direct at their gate prices and see how far you get.

In conclusion there is no point asking the provider to undercut their wholesalers (brokers etc) and in my opinion that is fair enough and is in line with being in a republic and a free market. Simply use your humble discount broker and save a fortune.

I hope this helps.

Regards Michael Kiernan

Authorised Advisor & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie


----------



## Vivian

*Information*

Tim,

As a self employed person you should understand that if all your clients rang you up looking for information, for free, on what products or services you provided then you wouldn't be in business very long. Would you? Why should it be any different for financial services?

AAM is where you get the 'Free Stuff'.


----------



## Ceist Beag

*Novice question*

Hi there,
  I'm only reading up on PRSA's now but one question, the entry fee of 5% - what does this apply to - is it 5% of your first payment? Sorry if that sounds like a daft question! I'm thinking of just making payments of 100 Euro per month initially so I'm curious whether this New Ireland product would be worth joining or if the fees mentioned would be very little anyway for this contribution amount.


----------



## MyAdviser

*Re: Novice question*

Hi, the 5% is on all contributions when ever they happen. So if you invest 100 euro then 5% goes in charges. With MyAdviser you can buy most of the PRSA's in Ireland (Eagle Star, Irish Life, Standard Life etc.) for just 100 euro (New Ireland offer 50 euro) and you will never have to pay the 5% entry for the life of your PRSA.

There is no advise or service associated with this service but you do save a lot of money.

Regards Michael 

Authorised Adviser & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie


----------



## QC

*Quinn Life*

MyAdvisor, Quinn does not have PRSA's but the personal pension has 1% admin charge, no 5% up front.  I have just put in lump sum and that's the terms quoted to me.


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Quinn Life*

_QL_ impose a flat charge of €3.81 on monthly contributions (as opposed to lump sums such as your own) which could work out expensive in percentage terms depending on the amount (e.g. 3.81% on a €100 per month contribution). _QL_ are pretty competitive on personal pension charges generally but a PRSA with, say a €100 up front arrangement fee and no 5% contribution charge, will most likely work out better value!


----------



## Quinine

*Here Today*

Just a thought

This PRSA pension will generally be paid out in 20-30 years time. If a piurchaser thinks all of the current small life insurers in Ireland will be there at that time, then they are sadly mistaken.  I think as well as price - and price is very important - it is nice to know who is going to be paying your pension. It will not be some of the names mentioned - but I guess they will have been bought by a bigger player.

It is a factor that there is little comment on but ask any broker about current service levels from Scottish Provident.....and it might show how important this factor can be in practice


----------



## Moneybags

*Re: Here Today*

Predicting which PRSA providers will still be in business in 20 years time is a bit like predicting who is going to deliver the best investment performance - i.e. a waste of time. 

If you have a Scots Prov PRSA a you're unhappy with service levels, you're free to switch penalty-free to somebody else. Simple as that.


----------



## aeg

*LA Brokers*

From what I can see LABrokers are offering a PRSA through Irish Life with the following conditions :
1. Entry charge 0%. This for the lifetime of the policy
2. A fund management charge that decreases from 1% to 0.85% as the fund increases.
3. No Fee.

This seems better than the New Ireland one.
Although I am only investigating at the moment.

Any thoughts ?


----------



## MyAdviser

*PRSA Charges & Offers*

Hi, just to update you all on the issue of offers the €50 & €100 euro offer for PRSA's is no longer available on MyAdviser.ie 

What has replaced it is an offer with New Ireland & Eagle Star's PRSA where the entry cost is reduced from the usual 5% to 2% for the life of the plan. The only other charge is the 1% p.a. management charge. There are no fees to pay MyAdviser for this service. These two providers received the highest scores in the Consumer Choice Survey of PRSA's.

If you want investment choice Eagle Star's Non-Standard PRSA is also available at these rates.

This is an execution only offer but ongoing service is included. If you want advice on pension planning and a complete review of your finances before you buy a PRSA then this is available for €300. 

Advice on the issue of pension selection is very important as the charges on a PRSA even discounted ones do not always result in you getting the best deal. 

There is an offer from Hibernian at the moment (via MyAdviser.ie) where you could get a personal pension with a 0.75% annual management charge and in some cases a higher allocation rate (greater than 98% after commission). This can be better value especially for lump sums.

Recently I did an assessment for a client of a nil commission PRSA compared to a 3%  p.a. commission based Personal Pension and here are the results.

CLIENT DETAILS
Aged 32 next birthday retiring at age 65, earning 50k p.a., contributing 500 per month with a 3% p.a. inflation rate on contributions. All illustrations have a 6% assumed growth rate (not guaranteed).

PERSONAL PENSION DETAILS
97% allocation, 4.44 per month policy fee and a 0.75% annual management charge. 

PRSA DETAILS
100% allocation, 0.00 per month policy fee and a fund management charge that decreases from 1% to 0.85% as the fund increases.

RESULT
The fund value at age 65 was as follows;

Personal Pension = €780,325
PRSA =                €754,792

Even at age 60 the PRSA was poorer value

Personal Pension = €540,511
PRSA =                €523,104

It is important to point out that different ages, terms etc can impact on which pension offers best value - thus the need for advice. It is also a key issue to assess the ability of your fund manager to deliver results (controversial thing to say on this site).

Regards

Michael Kiernan
Authorised Advisor & Discount Broker
www.myadviser.ie


----------



## Brendan Burgess

*Re: PRSA Charges & Offers*

Hi Michael

Thanks for the update.

I am not sure that your client is better off going for the Personal Pension. He is 32, and if all the factors favour the personal pension, he will be better off in 28 years time! Presumably, the PRSA will be ahead for the first 28 years.

In ten years, he will have a decent sized pension and will be able to shop around for a better deal elsewhere - and there will be no charges for tranferring to a new provider. 

In decisions like this, I think a person is better off going for immediate value rather than some long term value which might never materialise.

Brendan


----------



## Guest

*Re: PRSA Charges & Offers*

> It is also a key issue to assess the ability of your fund manager to deliver results (controversial thing to say on this site).

I don't think that's necessarily contentious but I would be curious as to how you or anybody else would tackle this with any degree of accuracy given the prevailing feeling in most quarters about past performance...?


----------



## charges watcher

*the cheapest PRSA*

Does the 1 % annual charge on managing a PRSA apply to the overall fund at each year end or just on that years contributions?Say the fund was worth 1 million euro at age 60,in that year would the provider hit you for a 10,000 euro charge?


----------



## Guest

*the cheapest PRSA*

>  Does the 1 % annual charge on managing a PRSA apply to the overall fund at each year end or just on that years contributions?

Annual management fees are charged on the full fund value and not just on an individual year's contributions. They may be calculated/deducted daily (e.g. 1%/365 each day on that day's unit value) rather than in one go at the end of the year - I'm not sure but that's generally the way that it's done on normal non pension unit linked funds anyway.

> Say the fund was worth 1 million euro at age 60,in that year would the provider hit you for a 10,000 euro charge?

More or less albeit within the constraints of the caveat I mentioned above.

Apart from the annual management fee, for PRSAs up front charges (to a maximum of 5%) are deducted from each contribution on a once off basis.


----------



## no name

*the cheapest PRSA*

I have read through the last 2 pages on this thread and it seems to me that the cheapest pension is The New Ireland Personal Pension with no commission,a 0.75 % annual mangement charge and  100 % allocation rate..executed through a discount broker like LABrokers for a once off fee of 70 Euro.Is this correct and is the only downside that say in 5 years if New Ireland was not performing as well, what with top brass having been poached away by the people from Down Under,one could not switch to another provider as one might if they had a PRSA?


----------



## PRSA investigator

*Cheapest PRSA*

HI,thanks to this thread I think I have sourced the best PRSA deal.With LA Brokers,for a once off 70 euro fee,the deal was 100 % allocation and 0.75% annual management charge for the dynamic high equity exposure fund with Eagle Star.Many thanks.


----------



## Ginelli

*Re: Eaglestar*

Hi
I have almost signed up for a personal pension with a Broker (permanent TSB broker) and here is the deal
pay broker 25pc of contributions in year 1 and 3pc for every other year after that
pay 1.5pc per year of total invested.
Am I mad?
Ginelli


----------



## rainyday

*Re: Eaglestar*

Yes - You should certainly be able to get better options by shopping around.


----------



## Chord of Souls

*Re: Eaglestar*

Small point about Permanent TSB - their pension sales staff are not brokers but tied agents for Irish Life - they can only sell you Irish Life products.  A broker can give you a choice of a number of pension providers.  

There are a number of good brokers who post on this forum - have a look back through some of the threads to find some of the previous advice.


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Eaglestar*

*Small point about Permanent TSB - their pension sales staff are not brokers but tied agents for Irish Life - they can only sell you Irish Life products. A broker can give you a choice of a number of pension providers.*

See  for more background on independent advice.

*I have almost signed up for a personal pension with a Broker (permanent TSB broker) and here is the deal
pay broker 25pc of contributions in year 1 and 3pc for every other year after that
pay 1.5pc per year of total invested.
Am I mad?*

These are *crazy* charges given that it's relatively easy to get a _PRSA_ with no charges on contributions and a 1% annual management fee - or perhaps even lower charges - for the once off payment of a few hundred € arrangement fee.


----------



## Capet

*STANDARD PRSA PENSION CHARGES*

What is the story? Are standard PRSA pension providors all charging the same ? (5% on contributions  1% mgmt charges) If not who is charging less?


----------



## mjmcgovern

*AVC / PRSA to supplement Occupational Pension Sch*

I am a public servant with a defined Benefit scheme. I have been given 10 years notional service (due to my professional qualification) & am aged 39 (with 3 years actual service - late entry to a local authority). I wish to retire at 60 & I'm in the higher tax bracket "by a long shot". Can I take out a PRSA / Personal pension (was told that these are not available to me as a union negotiated AVC is available to me). MyAdvisor talks about minimal charging / commissions far less that my current "high cost" Union negotiated AVC @ 5% Bid/offer, 1.75% Management fee & €3.81 monthly admin charge. Is there anybody that can advise considering that there may be 1000's of public servants unaware of Pension options & being fed possible misinformation by existing AVC providers. M.


----------



## corko

*Re: AVC / PRSA to supplement Occupational Pension Sch*

Check out:
[broken link removed]

Do you get additional years service because of having professional qualifications?


----------



## mjmcgovern

*PRSA / AVC*

Corko, Yep , I got almost 10 years Professional added service. The Sunday Business Post article refertred to is my Letter to them in 2003. Things have moved on & now pension legislation is such that Public servants have greater choice. My query still stands. Can anybody assist?


----------



## Alan Moore

*Re: PRSA / AVC*

If there is scope for AVC's you can take out a stand alone PRSA AVC (as recently pointed out to me on AAM).


----------



## BA

*PRSA / AVC*

I'm a public sector employee and at a recent meeting with the person who specialises in pensions for the healthboard - I was told that a civil servant is no longer tied to the union avc. You can choose any PRSA avc from any provider.


----------



## silver

*Re: >>The cheapest PRSA?*

u can choose any prsa instead of your union avc scheme but u will not be able to have your contributions deducted from your payslip thus losing out on the 2.9% di or 6% a1 prsi relief


----------



## Short Souls

*Re: >>The cheapest PRSA?*

But you can claim back a refund of PRSI yourself so you're not losing out.


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: >>The cheapest PRSA?*

Yes - see  for details of claiming _PRSI_ relief on "standalone" _PRSA_ or personal pension contributions.


----------



## Unregistered

*Re: >>The cheapest PRSA?*

having read the above thread I am still at a bit of a loss

Is it possible to get an "Eagle Star PRSA -- RFAJ" with 0% entry charges and a 0.75% fund charge through a discount broker like LABrokers.ie or MyAdvisor.ie ?


----------



## Odhran

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Hi 

I've got my PRSA with Irish Life.  I only recently checked what I was paying.  Found out it's 5% of what I put in + a management charge of 1.35% per year.  I've got my own company. Is it easy to switch out of this and into some with no contribution charge?


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

It should be - part of the point of _PRSAs _is that they are easy to transfer from one provider to another. 

Seeing that your charges are more than the _Standard PRSA _cap of 5% on each contribution and 1% annual management fee it looks like yours is a _Non Standard PRSA _(see the Pensions Board website for an explanation of the differences) Why did you choose this in the first place? I presume (but don't know for sure) that one should be able to transfer a _Non Standard PRSA _to a _Standard PRSA _without hassle or penalties.


----------



## Odhran

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Thanks for that - I'll follow up with Irish Life.


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Don't depend on _Irish Life _or any other tied agent for independent, professional advice. They just want to sell you their own products. Get your own advice if necessary in order to determine the best options for your specific needs and circumstances.


----------



## Slim

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Just to pick up on a question asked here last year on this thread which does not seem to be answered. What is now the cheapest PRSA on the market? I am particularly interested in the upfront fee monthly, typically 5%.

Slim


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

There are many threads/posts dealing with this. It's should be possible to pay a discount execution only broker a fixed fee of c. €100 to arrange a _Standard PRSA _with no per contribution charge and an annual management fee of 1%. It may be possible to get a slightly higher per contribution charge and a lower annual management charge. Juggling these can result in significantly different impacts of charges on performance. Obviously other factors (e.g. customer service, ease of administration, fund selection etc.) should also be taken into consideration.


----------



## Slim

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Thanks for that Clubman.


----------



## oysterman

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*



			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> It should be possible to pay a discount execution only broker a fixed fee of c. €100 to arrange a _Standard PRSA _with no per contribution charge and an annual management fee of 1%.


Where?


----------



## darag

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*



> Where?


I've used LABrokers recently and was very happy with the results.  Excellent value but you have to do all your own homework including getting the relevent forms from the life companies and filling them out.


----------



## SPM

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*



			
				darag said:
			
		

> I've used LABrokers recently and was very happy with the results. Excellent value but you have to do all your own homework including getting the relevent forms from the life companies and filling them out.


 
I used LABrokers to set up my PRSA. They got the forms and emailed them to me - I just had to fill them in. Mind you I did have to do all the research myself as is the case with execution-only brokers.

You’re right about value, of course. I was charged a €90 execution-only fee. I get 100% allocations and 1% annual management fee. The savings on commissions vastly outweighs the €90 one-off fee.

SPM


----------



## oysterman

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Thanks SPM and darag.

Which providers did you go for and how did you decide?


----------



## SPM

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*



			
				oysterman said:
			
		

> Which providers did you go for and how did you decide?


 
I went with Eagle Star because this is the provider that my employer has a salary deduction arrangement with. 

SPM


----------



## darag

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

I went with Standard Life because they had a broad range of passive funds and I'm a believer in the passive approach.  There is a substantial thread on this, started by SPC100, here.  It diverges a bit towards the end but the start gives what looks like a good summary of the options out there.


----------



## oysterman

*Re: Key Post: The cheapest PRSA?*

Thanks folks.


----------



## kirian

Have LABrokers stoped offering PRSAs? I was just looking at their site and couldn't see any info on them.


----------



## Fanny

If LABrokers don't do this anymore. I still haven't found a way to avoid the 5% contribution for my Irish Life PRSA. It would make a big difference as I don't want to pay 5% on my SSIA roll-over. What can I do to to avoid the charge? My employer would withdraw payments if I chose other provider. 
Fanny


----------



## senara

Fanny

www.myadviser.ie  are offering 2% with Eagle Star


----------



## kirian

Apart from the www.myadviser.ie 2% with Eagle Star offering are there any other PRSAs on offer out there with lower than 5% contribution charges?

Do any PRSAs offer less than the 1% anual management fee?

I'm really disappointed by the LABrokers offer not (seemingly) being available. I'm just starting to get my act together and start saving for a pension but find the whole thing quite hard to get my head around in terms of which company to go with. A list of the best PRSAs in the Best Buys section would be very helpful.

thanks for all help,
Kirian


----------



## CCOVICH

kirian said:
			
		

> A list of the best PRSAs in the Best Buys section would be very helpful.



SPC100 has put together an excellent thread on this in the Pensions and PRSAs forum.


----------



## greyser

Would anyone have/would like to contribute an upto date summary page on cheapest standard PRSA, through brokers and/or direct providers. See alot of posts but mostly from last year. there is alot of interest in this topic and a 1 page list as of may 06 in best buys would be useful. i have read through SPC's thread that mentions LAbrokers but recent replies suggest they don't have that offer still. 
thanks in advance.


----------



## CCOVICH

Why don't you kick it off?

We get loads of suggestions for threads here on AAM, but few offers of assistance.

I doubt much has changed since SPC undertook their research.

On the LA Brokers issue, have you contacted them directly to verify if what has been said recently holds true?


----------



## greyser

fair enough. i emailed LAbrokers earlier tonight. will update upon repsonse. had a quick look at myadviser, offer on their website with eagle star is mentioned (2 % contribution charge). theres's an online application form.


----------



## Sherman

According to their website LABrokers *no longer offer PRSAs*. Instead, they have a link on their site directing you to MyAdviser.ie - where the best rates I've seen are 2% contribution and 1% annual management fee.

I've searched long and hard over the last month or so, and have found no-one who can/will beat that - quite a few have offered to match it, but none will beat either the contribution rate nor the management fee.


----------



## Roddy Burns

Hi all,

with reference to the PRSA offer from Eagle Star through MyAdvisor, would I be right in saying that the 2% contribution charge reduces to 1.25% if your regular contribution exceeds €6000 per annum (€500 per month)?   It appears to say that in the comparative list of PRSA's provided by the Pension's Board.


----------



## F. Kruger

You can now purchase a Standard PRSA with Eagle Star with just the 1% Annual Management Charge through this www.prsas.ie website on an 'Execution Only' basis.

You have an option (not compulsory) of making a donation to a specified cause, using the money saved on the Fees that are normally charged by advisors to transact this business.

As the site is aimed at those that have done enough research on their own to make an informed decision on retirement planning, it is also possible to conduct SSIA Pension Incentive business(PRSA related) by specifically stating this in the request.

I have a connection with the site.


----------



## F. Kruger

The above terms (1% Annual Management Charge Only) have been extended to include Personal Pensions (RACs) if the request for information specifically states this.


----------



## pjq

HTML:
	

Sherman According to their website LABrokers no longer offer PRSAs.

 quote from May 2006
LABrokers seem to be back in business for PRSAs ( 100% allocation and 1% mgt) , has anybody used them recently? Does their charge of €150- include VAT ?

pjq


----------



## justsally

Can I pay for a once off consultation with an "execution only" broker?, does the "only" apply to his/her type of business or the type of application. (if that makes sense)


----------



## HappyGillmor

Fund perfromance most important, not charges. People obsessed with charges when (for Example) New Ireland Fund performance appalling recently. Better to pay a little and get good advice. 

I would recommend Eagle Star.


----------



## HappyGillmor

you can get as low as 0.4% fund management charges on Self admin pensions but its the overall package that matters. Term, charges on contributions and fund management charges all count but the performance of the funds is paramount. Some products have rebates that result in the best deal and significantly better than "low cost" PRSAs. A good Authorised Advisor is worth talking to.


----------



## LDFerguson

HappyGillmor said:


> Fund perfromance most important, not charges. People obsessed with charges when (for Example) New Ireland Fund performance appalling recently. Better to pay a little and get good advice.
> 
> I would recommend Eagle Star.


 


HappyGillmor said:


> Term, charges on contributions and fund management charges all count but the performance of the funds is paramount.


 
Can you confirm that Eagle Star funds will outperform others in the future?


----------



## auburn

Just to double check: what is the most competitive AVC PRSA available today in the marketplace? Anything better than 1% annual management charge and 100 % allocation rate (execution only).

Thanks
Auburn


----------



## ClubMan

Would it not depend on other factors - the size of any initial lump sum investment and ongoing contributions for example?


----------



## manalishi

hello all!

i'm currently on;

Eagle Star Standard PRSA
3.5% service charge
1% annual management fee

How does this sound? is it reasonable?

can anyone tell me what does Actual Allocation:- 100% mean?


----------



## Dave Vanian

The Standard PRSA charging structure is that 5% of each contribution gets deducted in charges along with 1% of the fund per year.  

In your case, the 5% has been reduced to 3.5%.  So that's good.  

It's possible to get a PRSA with a 0% charge per contribution (i.e. 100% of each contribution invested without charge) but this is only available for execution-only transactions, i.e. you get no advice from the seller and need to be well-informed as to your correct level of contribution, choice of PRSA provider, choice of fund(s) etc.


----------



## manalishi

thanks dave vanian.

so i think i'll keep my mangagement fee and maybe ask for some advice from my contact.

should i be putting my pension on hold? from all the turmoil going on in international markets?

my profile;
27 full time employment.
just started prsa in july 08


----------



## Dave Vanian

If you just started making contributions and are investing in a fund that's buying equities, you're buying units in that fund at far lower prices than they were last year.  You've also got >30 years to go until retirement.  Personally, I'd stick with it and buy those bargain units.


----------



## carmelkane

I already have an Eagle Star pension fund, to which I make twice yearly lump sum investments. Can I make a contribution to my existing account using broker myadviser.ie, thus avoiding the €50 setup fee charged by Eagle Star, but availing of the low fee charged by myadviser.ie?


----------



## carmelkane

Looking at the charges and fees, Eagle Star charge 0.75% pa and 2% of the lump sum invested in single contribution pension plans. You would have to study whether the waiver of the initial charge would make up for the extra cost over time due to the extra 0.25% annual charge. I imagine if you have a long time to go before retirement, paying an extra 2% upfront would be worth it.


----------



## kcb

Any advise on the best PRSA for a monthly contribution of about €100


----------



## Anfear

Looked on their website - it seems to be Eagle Star, not New Ireland?


----------



## LDFerguson

Anfear said:


> Looked on their website - it seems to be Eagle Star, not New Ireland?


 
Did you post this in the wrong topic?  Whose website? What seems to be Eagle Star?


----------



## He-Man

It's been a long time since this thread was updated; who are the cheapest PRSA providers now?


----------



## Marc

A PRSA is a commodity product that should be relatively simple and low cost.

Unfortunately, the legislation designed to create the structure has had two probably unintended consequences.

Firstly, the max charge imposed by the legislation has become the default position rather than the max.

So a default charge is still 5% contribution fee plus 1%pa

The second problem arises because the legislation specifies fee disclosure in a particular way which can make some genuine lower cost options appear more expensive when disclosed in the statement of reasonably projection whereas contracts with demonstrably higher costs can appear cheaper.

Simply complying with the legislation is the reason often cited by pension providers for the floor reached on charges.

The base wholesale cost for a PRSA in Ireland is still 0.50%pa simply due to the onerous reporting and compliance regime.

On top of that you need to add fund management and any advice/distribution costs.


----------



## Merowig

He-Man said:


> It's been a long time since this thread was updated; who are the cheapest PRSA providers now?



labrokers.ie/pensions/ has two PRSAs with 1% AMC - no contributon charge

Davy is offering 0.75% +x (x depending what type of ETF you chose - with the right ETF you can stay below 1%)


----------



## He-Man

So, in a PRSA, can you build your own portfolio with, say, three or four different ETFs? What about rebalancing, i.e. are you allowed to sell some of one ETF to buy more of another ETF in one's portfolio? Do dividends generated by such ETFs incur a tax?


----------



## Merowig

Yes you can build your own portfolio with Davy. I believe rebalancing is possible (but you should check with Davy directly or someone else can advice here who is already with them) and I would be surprised if any dividends would be taxable as they are locked in your PRSA and PRSAs are tax exempt (DIRT/DWT)...


----------



## He-Man

Not bad. So you can build a portfolio of Ireland-domiciled Vanguard ETFs for example. Doing this, you could generate a globally diversified portfolio for no more than 0.12% TER, in terms of Vanguard commission at any rate.


----------



## Merowig

I have asked beginning of February the Pension Authority to provide me with an overview of all PRSAs and their costs - after some initial reluctance / deflecting and after I involved their Freedom Of Information Act Officer I was promised beginning of March that I should receive this information by the End of March. I was chasing them today again but she is out of office for now.
They also consider to republish this information as well on their website as they did in the past.


So far Davy seems really to be the cheapest (unless there are some transaction charges I am not aware of) one but I will wait with opening a PRSA for my fiancee till I am getting their response.


----------



## mtk

Hi merowig
You might post that info here when you get it.
Well done for being so proactive !
Mtk


----------



## Merowig

Got a response today  - they got delayed - I was told that I should get it hopefully in two weeks.
Will copy and paste it here (File uploading doesn't seem to be possible) when available....


----------



## Merowig

*Drummroll*

Overview of PRSAs and their charges as of April 2016

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwsxfnty94iTbUE4aEl5SkpYaG8/view?usp=sharing

No gurantees given or implied


----------



## Clonback

I have a non standard PRSA with Bastow Charleton Wealth Management which is costing c.0.5% and invested mainly in property.


----------



## Merowig

Perhaps an older PRSA or some kind of individual discount or perhaps because of the fund value you have there? Their website [broken link removed] reflects what is in the excel.


----------



## Merowig

Received a slightly updated version as one provider was missing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwsxfnty94iTallwYUZuLVV1WHM/view


----------



## mtk

thanks but so many variations makes it hard to follow.....  to state the obvious....to keep the consumer in the dark or  force them to use an intermediary ?


----------



## Merowig

Practically I believe the previous statement is still valid - a PRSA through LA brokers and Davy seem to be the cheapest ones (unless you have huge amounts of money to invest).


----------



## GSheehy

mtk said:


> thanks but so many variations makes it hard to follow.....  to state the obvious....to keep the consumer in the dark or  force them to use an intermediary ?



Hi mtk,

The variations are there for the benefit of the provider and the intermediary. The provider doesn't want to lose business by just offering one charging structure and the intermediary might want to reduce the contribution charge (the 5%) depending on the level of contribution.

The way I look at it is, there are two types of PRSA, one with a contribution charge (that pays for advice) and one without a contribution charge (no advice/execution only).

BTW, prsa (dot) ie (my own site) also does a prsa with no contribution charge and a 1% amc on an execution only basis. And, if you want to buy another type of pension product (PPP, BoB, AVC, EPP or A(M)RF) with no contribution charge you can do this via the website.


----------



## Merowig

Merowig said:


> I have asked beginning of February the Pension Authority to provide me with an overview of all PRSAs and their costs - after some initial reluctance / deflecting and after I involved their Freedom Of Information Act Officer I was promised beginning of March that I should receive this information by the End of March. I was chasing them today again but she is out of office for now.
> They also consider to republish this information as well on their website as they did in the past.



The Pensions Authority has now published in August an updated Excel file with an overview of all charges and providers
http://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/I_want_to_start_a_Pension_PRSA/PRSAs/


----------



## presidenttttt

Pension regulator website has a 2020 version of the previous linked list. Can’t seem to link it to update the thread.


----------



## Merowig

Updated list is now on https://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/i_want_to_start_a_pension_prsa/prsas/


----------

