# Planning for 2nd floor extension?



## babydays (11 Jan 2009)

We're wanting a little more space in our house and are considering various options for extending. 

One we were wondering about is about extending upstairs, to the rear of house, over an existing extension. The downstairs existing extension is approx 40 sq mts. There is more than 11 mts to the wall at the end of the garden. 

Is there any likelihood that we would we get planning permission for building on top of the extension? What are the limits on size? We're a semi-d house. We're in North Dublin.


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## ljsd (13 Jan 2009)

Depending on the design, you should get permission, but you would need to check whether the downstairs extension's foundations and walls are suitable to support a 2 story extension.  We built a 2 storey extension at the back of our 3 bed semi with no planning problems. Like you we had 11 metres and only had windows at the back.
Our neighbours were turned down however but I think it was a design issue, the extension wasn't in keeping with the surrounding houses.


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## living:room (15 Jan 2009)

Each planning application is different - a planner will take account of location, height, scale, materials, locations of boundaries, quality of design proposed etc.

Generally, the ability to build a two storey extension at the rear of a property will depend on how close it is to the neighbouring property across its rear boundary. Planning Dept. look for 20 - 22m (depending on local authority) between directly opposing first floor windows at the rear of the property - that is the back wall of the house or the extension of the house whichever is closest to the property opposite. If your neighbour's rear wall is closer than 20 - 22m, or they have already extended to two stories to the rear of their house, then this may affect what you want to do. 

Take a look at the back of neighbouring houses - do any of them have two storey extensions? If so, then there is a precendent set in your area which could make it easier to get permission for a similar project.

As mentioned above, you will need a structural engineer to check out the existing foundations.


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## bacchus (16 Jan 2009)

I think you will need to get permission as you have "used up" the 40sqm already.



> Generally, you will _not_ need planning permission for:
> 
> 
> Building an extension to the rear of the house which does not increase the original floor area of the house by more than 40 square metres and is not higher than the house. The extension should not reduce the open space at the back of the house to less than 25 square metres which must be reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of your house. If your house has been extended before, the floor area of the extension you are now proposing and the floor area of any previous extension (including those for which you previously got planning permission) must not exceed 40 square metres. (There are also other height restrictions.)


See details here


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## gabbo (18 Jul 2010)

In a similar vein to the OP, have bought a house some years back that was built in the 60s as a 3 bed. Some time after this, I can only imagine in the 70s, talking to neighbours - many house expended two dormer bedrooms out the back. I would imaghine 1 in 4 houses has this done.

I've converted the garage - 15 sq meters. I'm looking to build a 25sq meter extension. It'll be fine for all conditions, including garden left over and space from facing neighbour. 

However, if I count all three pieces of work - bedrooms, garage, new kitchen, I'm over the 40 sq meters. If however, the bedrooms are exempted ?? over time, I'm on the button.

Anyone able to clarify if very old extensions are somehow now considered part of the original house?


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## onq (22 Jul 2010)

Nope, but they are well past the time for them to be considered actionable.

You could play it clever and lodge an application just for the extension and see what they local authority says.

Dormers in and of themselves were never part of the exempted development schedule.

However, at this point in time attic conversions aren't considered development to the best of my knowledge.

Play it safe, talk to your local planner and get their view - that's the one that matters.

ONQ

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## picorette (22 Jul 2010)

To clarify if very old extensions are considered ...

If an extension was constructed before the Planning Laws in 1964 came in, it would not have to be included in any calculation. 

As the legislation says " Where the house has been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 40 square metres. "

Whether you can prove this is another matter. Best advice is to talk to the Planner for your area to clarify.


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## onq (23 Jul 2010)

We once had to jump though hoops to prove the existence of a pre-63 flat conversion.

We had to show old leases going back to the time IIRC - its was quite an onerous peocess but had to be done.

In this case, I should have made clear I was reply to gabbo, whose extension was stated to be post '63 and not the OP.

Apologies for any confusion that might have arisen.

ONQ

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied     upon                                   as a defence or support - in and     of     itself  -         should       legal        action    be          taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise   in                                     Real Life with rights to inspect   and      issue         reports    on     the         matters    at         hand.


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