# Neighbour threw pile of leaves from my tree into my garden Can I legally return them?



## bullworth

A neighbour to the back of me has thrown a pile of leaves from my tree over my back wall and into my garden . There was also a tiny amount of the neighbours' kids' small plastic toys and sweet wrappers inside as they had not done a perfectly careful job of it.

Do they have any legal right to do this without my permission and can I legally return those leaves over the back wall to them ?

I feel that throwing the leaves over was an aggressive act as I keep my garden spotlessly clean and the neighbour had no idea where those leaves would land on the other side.

Advice please ?


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## roytheboyo

You seem to think its ok for a tree grown on your side to litter your neighbours garden, but its not ok for neighbour to return them. Great example of absence of consideration.
Thank god you are not my neighbour.
To answer your q, no its illegal, mountjoy is full of people convicted of throwing leaves over walls.


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## kkelliher

Legally they cannot throw them into your garden. They actually have to ask you if you would like them but you can say no and they must dispose.


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## Luternau

kkelliher said:


> Legally they cannot throw them into your garden. They actually have to ask you if you would like them but you can say no and they must dispose.



That is incorrect. Legally you dont have to ask them, and you can just leave them on their property. Ideally in a bag-but its not necessary.


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## Bronte

bullworth said:


> I feel that throwing the leaves over was an aggressive act as I keep my garden spotlessly clean and the neighbour had no idea where those leaves would land on the other side.


 
Well you can be sure this will be the beginning of a war if you go down this route. Personally I think your neighbour was wrong to do what he did. But from his point of view he considers the tree to be an annoyance, despite the fact that he too presumable gets enjoyment from the beauty of it.  In the interest of future good relations maybe it's best to just dispose of them yourself and not be cross about it.


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## bullworth

well whos a lawyer here and whos not ? Some of you may as well try to justify the neighbour stuffing those leaves through my letterbox ''out of consideration'' 

Is he legally allowed just throw those leaves over my wall and not care where they land etc ?


Am I legally allowed refuse his ''gift'' ?


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## Bronte

I think you need to take a deep breath bullworth.


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## bullworth

Bronte said:


> I think you need to take a deep breath bullworth.




I just want to know where I stand thats all 

The neighbour also included some of his own litter in there. He basically swept his whole garden and then assumed that it belonged to me. He has never spoken with me about it once.

But of interest here is the legal position. Can anyone tell me what it is ? I can find the UK legal position online but not the Irish one.


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## Bronte

bullworth said:


> He has never spoken with me about it once.
> 
> .


 
Maybe it's time you invited him in for a friendly cup of tea. Or chat over the fence. If you are 'friend's he is unlikely to repeat his actions. You could offer to 'sweep' up the leaves in his garden if that will sort things out. 

My neighbour who considered *our* hedge his, used to wait until I left the house and come into my garden and cut the hedge. And he left the clippings too. I just swept them up. He did this for years, until the hedge got killed there a couple of years ago by the severe cold.


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## bullworth

I can't reason with a bad neighbour unless I am confident of what his legal obligations are and what mine are too. There are  a dozen better ways to handle this situation than how he handled it. The judgemental can go stone someone else. I need a lawyer's know how here. I cant have this guy throwing garbage over a high wall onto my washing on the line etc. It took more effort to throw a pile of leaves over such a high wall than it would do to bag the damn things.


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## monagt

I can cut the branch that comes over the boundary at the boundary.
I must return the branch to my neighbour.
Q.E.D


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## bullworth

For a QED light-bulb moment , I would need a reference to a case or legislation involving leaves. You cant just throw the branch in through your neighbours window I presume.


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## monagt

Don't have one, unfortunately, .
When my neighbour put up a tree, I kept cutting the branches as they came over the fence so I now get minimal leaves.
And, no I did not throw the branches back, just disposed of them.

Do your best to avoid discord..........but I see your point.


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## bullworth

I keep my garden free of waste and hazards especially because my toddler plays there and I assumed I can leave her to play very safely. Now picture this lunatic shovelling leaves and stones over the wall without even looking where they land. How can that be right ? I need to know what my legal advantages and disadvantages are in any situation where I try to reason with this neighbour.


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## kkelliher

Luternau said:


> That is incorrect. Legally you dont have to ask them, and you can just leave them on their property. Ideally in a bag-but its not necessary.


 
I think you will fin I am not incorrect. They cannot throw them into you garden, and as the tree is yours they have to offer them to you but you are not obliged to take them.


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## seantheman

bullworth said:


> A neighbour to the back of me has thrown a pile of leaves from my tree over my back wall and into my garden . There was also a tiny amount of the neighbours' kids' small plastic toys and sweet wrappers inside as they had not done a perfectly careful job of it.


 



bullworth said:


> I keep my garden free of waste and hazards especially because my toddler plays there and I assumed I can leave her to play very safely. Now picture this lunatic shovelling leaves and stones over the wall without even looking where they land. How can that be right ? .


 
So it's moved from being a "tiny amount of the neighbours' kids' small plastic toys and sweet wrappers" to "Now picture this lunatic shovelling leaves and stones over the wall without even looking where they land"
This is extremely serious. I assume you were watching at the time to 
verify that your neighbours weren't looking at where the leaves landed?



bullworth said:


> Am I legally allowed refuse his ''gift'' ?


 
I wonder would the answer to this question be the same as the answer to
the question, Are they legally allowed to refuse your "gift"?


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## Jim2007

We are not in a position to give out legal advice, only opinions.  If you need legal advise consult a solicitor.


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## oldnick

BULLWORTH

-sorry, but you come across as rather ill-tempered and somewhat rude today. We all have our bad days so maybe you've got a bit wound up about this.

If,indeed, it is the case that your branches overhang another person's garden then your neighbour may feel that is is you who is causing litter and that you should trim the branches accordingly.

Maybe your neighbour is as grumpy and unreasonable as you seem to be today.

Is it something in the air there?


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## AlbacoreA

Perhaps ask a neutral party to discuss the issue for you. I don't think either of you are calm enough to discuss it. 

You can't control where leaves go short of cutting down the tree and you can't be expected to clean up all the neighbours gardens. Your trees can't overgrown someone else garden but that's a different issue. If they overgrow, you should cut them back. You might ask why they suddenly started doing this. Has someone new moved in. How old is this tree, it didn't appear overnight I assume. Perhaps its the wrong kind of tree?


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## oldnick

I always believed that the type of action of your neighbour was legally justified.

Kkelliher's post confused me. On a quick search I could find no actual irish law outlining the full position ,but on justanswer/com/ irish-law an Irish barrister avers ....

"... AS THEY ARE BRANCHES OF YOUR TREES, YOUR NEIGHBOUR IS ENTITLED IN LAW TO PLACE ANY CUT BACK BRANCHES  ON YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE"

A similar opinion is made on the Irish Times (property expert) site.

In fact I thought that not only was the neighbour entitled to return the  branches to the owner of same, but was obliged to.

Whilst I find Bulworth's reaction OTT this is an interesting question that needs clarifying.
I think kkelliher is wrong but I'd be willing to be corrected with aources.


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## bullworth

Theres a few funny characters on this site for sure. Im not one of them. If people cant answer my query and stay on topic they need to begone. I'm not in a bad temper. Stop making character judgements and start making legal ones.


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## ontour

"All cuttings must be given back to the owner of the tree, or at least   offered back.  If the owner of the tree  doesn’t want the cuttings, they  must be disposed of in a responsible way and  should not be left in the  tree owner’s property without permission."

[broken link removed]

Tree Council may be able to provide the legal reference although you may need to look for a 'Hedge Council'?


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## WizardDr

@bullworth

The nub of this is that your tree is clearly irritating your neighbour considerably.

That is called nuisance. 

You on the other hand feel that there has been unlawful trespass - and that is triable per se - in other words you do  not have to prove damage.

If you want to  bring this to  head:

Issue a summons under the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act 1851.

Information can be laid before a District Court Judge on an ex parte and can be done by you.

If you have all your facts then you will find out soon enough what the story is.

I would predict that the Judge might tell you that you have an arguable case but your neighbours potential defence would make the outcome of this unpredictable - as we have only your side to go on.

His tale might be such that many hints have been given to you to cut the branches back - but you are not listening (and some here might be sympathetic to your neighbour on that front). On the other hand he may have said nothing and made no attempt to contact you.

The judge will be a little bemsued as to why you have not attempted some sort of contact but if you are persistent he may let this go forward. I think there are in fact two different complaints here and you might er not win. A simple strategy is to cut the branches. A longer strategy is to communicate with your neighbours as you may need them in the future.


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## AlbacoreA

Cutting and branches are not leaves though. So doesn't really apply here.

That would seem to only applies if there overhanging a neighbours boundary.


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## Luternau

Bulworth
Calm down. You won't get legal advice here-just opinions. Demanding it or slating people for their opinion is not going to help getting these opinions. Best talk to your neighbour.
If you want legal advice:case law - go to a solicitor.


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## AlbacoreA

Forums threads are much like leaves. They go everywhere.


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## dewdrop

I feel Bullworth is entitled to a simple answer or a comment. While the issue may appear trivial to some i can well understand how a person might feel if a bundle of say rotten leaves were just dumped over the wall. Little bit of intrusion comes to mind.


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## bullworth

ThankYou Dewdrop. All the speculation so far has been groundless. I have been a model neighbour. Branches are cut. Everything is spotless. I have thrown back balls, miscellaneous items and toys for years. I have even quietly disposed of items their kids would have thrown in such as a long length of carpet cardboard innertube etc. However my trees were there before the neighbour moved in. You cant just collect garbage and throw it over someones wall when they are away and have already planted and made plans and put work in etc. Can you ? Trees are a part of nature and a fact of life.


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## oldnick

Any poster may be "entitled to a simple answer or comment" but posters would perhaps elicit more informative responses if they were more polite and less sarcastic.

No poster can expect (especially not demand) an authoritative legal opinion -including from a lawyer -unless full facts are given - which they were not in this thread. 
For example, only in the 30th post does Bullworth state that branches are cut. I assume this means that branches over the neighbour's garden  which is a relevant  but tardy piece of information.

Bullworth did received many comments ,most from long-established posters ("the funny characters" that Bullworth mentions?) who tried to advise on the human aspect of the problem -not only the legal aspect.

As facts start coming out it would appear that Bullworth's neighbour did act unreasonably -and perhaps illegally. But if Bullworth were to present his case in the manner displayed on this thread I'm uncertain as to the efficacy of taking this to law.


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## miriammary

If I were you I'd go straight over -- not in a temper--very calmly and say you'd noticed he'd thrown some leaves and other rubbish over the wall into your garden and ask is there a problem we need to sort. Get it out of the way. He obviously has a problem with cleaning your leaves up or something else and before you go over have some resolutions thought of. I'm sure ye can sort it out easily even though what he did wasn't too nice.


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## WizardDr

@bull I gave you a workable strategy without hiring lawyers.

Go on  - go on - go on.

If what you say is true - and you are believed - you will get damages.


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## LS400

Jeeze, judges, court, winning damages, no wonder the country fecked.

I was that bullworth a few years ago. My wife is big into her plants and trees, and the garden is her pride and joy. We had the neighbour call round ranting and raving about leaves in her garden. I went round with a mad as hell to see what the big problem was and give them a dose of cop on. There was not a plant or bush or any greenary in the garden. We planted a eucalyptus tree years ago and it grew like jack and the been stalk and was gorgeous. This tree shed in summer (something to do with conserving moisture in hot climate) Anyway, I could see where she had a problem. Her plain and simple garden was her pride and joy. So, I cut the thing down. Now, I draw the line at Nature. Autumn has never been a problem. She is not as mad as I thought she was. There are two sides here. No one gets up in the morning and dumps a bag of leaves over a wall with out some issues festering, and I would bet there something else going here.


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## seantheman

bullworth said:


> I have thrown back balls, miscellaneous items and toys for years.


 
Now we're finally getting to the nub of the issue. You've been chucking stuff over their fence for years and now you're hopping mad over a few sweet wrappers coming back over your way


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## bullworth

cashier said:


> This thread has been going since early morning and it's going nowhere. The OP has been told a number of times to go and seek legal advice but he/she is not heeding that advise so what more can be said or done about the issue.



You guys are hilarious. This issue has not been festering for years at least not on my side. I fully intend to sort it out asap and this was one parallel hoped for source of advice. I have a video of my neighbour throwing leaves and mud over the wall and it landing onto my white laundry hanging on the line. He waited until cover of darkness to do it too. 

Yes this is new information but it just happened now. 

Isnt information technology wonderful 

Can I send the video simultaneously to 1) the guards , 2) the council and 3) the litter warden asking for their advice on how to proceed ? What say you all now ? At least I can prove to someone that my problem isnt imaginary,

I sense some of you have been involved in some similar disputes but not always on the same side as me so I politely request those of you who have to calm down and think before you type


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## noodles

bullworth said:


> I have a video of my neighbour throwing leaves and mud over the wall and it landing onto my white laundry hanging on the line. He waited until cover of darkness to do it too.



You secretly videotaped your neighbour in the dark???
Did you lie in wait undercover?


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## bullworth

noodles said:


> You secretly videotaped your neighbour in the dark???
> Did you lie in wait undercover?




I am sure theres humor somewhere in there somewhere....considering this is a real life issue.

my wife while minding our baby heard a noise in the garden and recorded it on her phone. quite intimidating for her to experience, no ?????

I was shown the video when I got back from work.


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## Bronte

Where did the neighbour get the mud from and why was laundry on the clothes line at night time? How come there are fallen leaves at this time of year, it's still practically winter?

I'm changing my original advice on here. Cut down the tree and problem solved. 

This is based on the fact were talking about innocuous leaves and a few sweet wrappers but we're suddenly talking about covert filming, neighbours out and about up to no good in the dark, intimidation of your wife and the Gardaí, litter wardens, the local council, legal advice, lawyers and courts. Far better to do away with the tree. 

Bullworth I don't know what planet you are on and I don't mean this in an insulting way but the Gardaí the litter warden and the local council will do nothing if you have a complaint about someone throwing leaves over a wall, I mean they do nothing if you have neighbours from hell so you think they will be any use in the circumstances you've outlined?

And thank you for the most entertaining thread in quite a while.


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## ney001

Neighbour to the back of your house threw leaves and dirt over a very high wall in the dark with clothes hanging on a line between the wall and your house and your wife recorded it on a phone?? 

just how clear is your footage given the above circumstances? 

If your wife was intimidated when it happened why didn't she call the gardaí there and then?


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## col

I am a person similar to your neighbour. My house is relatively new compared to my neighbour and his garden is full of trees and I have none. Every winter due to prevailing winds I get almost all of his leaves deposited in my garden. I am talking about 40 plus wheelbarrows full and they ruin my grass if left. I have nowhere to dump them so every year I spend at least one full day picking up his leaves and throwing them over his wall. I don't complain to him about it as I know he cant help the wind and in my opinion I am justified in returning them. He has never complained to me about it and I wouldn't expect him to. I would consider both of us reasonable people and while I don't know the law in relation to this common law suggests I am right in my actions.


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## oldnick

Oh please let's continue it....


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## demoivre

The neighbour gave you back your leaves and you now want to dump your leaves on his property - have I got that right?


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## Palerider

I think the OP would be better off investing at least the same amount of time in talking to his neighbour as they have on this thread....much more productive....this stuff festers often for years and let's be blunt who goes to Court with neighbours over such nonsense...

To be brief enough about fallen leaves, so much grief, I've leafed through this thread enough, I think I'm going to leaf it alone now...go talk to your neighbour and put aside talk of any legal beef chief over an auld leaf..or two.


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## bullworth

WizardDr said:


> @bullworth
> 
> The nub of this is that your tree is clearly irritating your neighbour considerably.
> 
> That is called nuisance.
> 
> You on the other hand feel that there has been unlawful trespass - and that is triable per se - in other words you do not have to prove damage.
> 
> If you want to bring this to head:
> 
> Issue a summons under the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act 1851.
> 
> Information can be laid before a District Court Judge on an ex parte and can be done by you.
> 
> If you have all your facts then you will find out soon enough what the story is.
> 
> I would predict that the Judge might tell you that you have an arguable case but your neighbours potential defence would make the outcome of this unpredictable - as we have only your side to go on.
> 
> His tale might be such that many hints have been given to you to cut the branches back - but you are not listening (and some here might be sympathetic to your neighbour on that front). On the other hand he may have said nothing and made no attempt to contact you.
> 
> The judge will be a little bemsued as to why you have not attempted some sort of contact but if you are persistent he may let this go forward. I think there are in fact two different complaints here and you might er not win. A simple strategy is to cut the branches. A longer strategy is to communicate with your neighbours as you may need them in the future.


 
ThankYou. My branches are always impeccably cut back however this is the nature of a tree that it produces leaves. The only things I wont do for my neighbour is tolerate aggression, flinging items or leaves over my wall without looking where it is going or asking my permission first; or tolerate the destruction of a 15 year old tree.


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## Janet

col said:


> I am talking about 40 plus wheelbarrows full and they ruin my grass if left. I have nowhere to dump them so every year I spend at least one full day picking up his leaves and throwing them over his wall.


I know you weren't asking for an alternative solution but if you know someone with an allotment (few and far between, I know) or posted on the smallholding section of boards, for example, I'm sure you'd find lots of people willing to come and gather the leaves up and take them away - free leaf mulch for them and less work for you.


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## Spear

The problem for your neighbour most probably is that it costs money to dispose of the  leaves.


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## RichInSpirit

There's talk about dumping the leaves being an aggressive act.  I think the act hasn't been consciously thought about at all .


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## WizardDr

@bullworth - that procedure can be initiated by you at the District Court.

If judge feels you have a case the summons will be issued - the downside is if you lose, any costs that your Defendant has will be payable by you (costs follow event).

If judge feels you have not got a case, nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## postman pat

maybe "leaf"well enough alone........


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## coldcake

Why don't you talk to the neighbour and ask him if he wouldn't mind bagging them next time and then you can place them in your compost bin. A win win situation. Seek solutions and not confrontation. 

Not the legal advice you wanted just some life wisdom.


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## ajapale

coldcake said:


> Why don't you talk to the neighbour and ask him if he wouldn't mind bagging them next time and then you can place them in your compost bin. A win win situation. Seek solutions and not confrontation.
> 
> Not the legal advice you wanted just some life wisdom.



Thanks and on that positive note thread closed.

aj

Moderator


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