# New Tenants not paying rent



## cappamj (21 Apr 2007)

Hi,
I have rented a house to a young couple since April 9th and would appreciate advice on this problem. I have rented before so only have my self to blame as I have broken all my own rules. Rent is €500 per month and I only got 200 deposit, no rent in advance before they moved in, tenancy agreement not signed, no reference check.

When they came to view house on bank holiday they asked to move in straigh away when I asked about notice to Landlord they said they had agreement to move when they found a place due to problems with "boy racers" on estate(there is a problem with them) so I agreed and they gave me 200 till banks opened next day, (I would normally have got €1000).

I have contacted him 5 times since for money (he never answers phone but texts back) saying he will drop it in at evening but it never comes. I again contacted him on Thur saying I would call to house for it at 7pm on fri -- he said no problem but no one was home when I called. I then phoned his partner who was away for week end she said she did not know rent was not paid but would sort it. One hour later I get a text from him saying he is on his way with money but never turned up.

sorry for long message, can I give them one weeks notice in writing? the new tenancy is not yet registered with PRTB. They are using my heating oil but I have ESB changed to their name.


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## gonk (21 Apr 2007)

cappamj said:


> sorry for long message, can I give them one weeks notice in writing? the new tenancy is not yet registered with PRTB. They are using my heating oil but I have ESB changed to their name.


 
No, you must give them 28 days notice. As it is within six months of the start of the tenancy, you don't have to give a reason, although non-payment of rent is a pretty good one!

You have one month to register the tenancy with the PRTB, so you're still within that time frame. You'd be as well off to register it straight away, as the tenant can register a dispute with them even if you don't. It will only make matters more difficult for you if you don't.

Have a look at the PRTB website (www.prtb.ie) for more info and a template for a letter giving notice in the legally required form.

([broken link removed])

Don't forget that once you have them out you still have the right to pursue them for any outstanding rent and other charges for oil & electricity. If you have registered the tenancy you can use the PRTB's services to do this at low cost compared to taking court action. (Remember the PRTB is there to protect landlord's rights as much as tenant's.) Might be no harm to remind your tenants of that . . .


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## auto320 (21 Apr 2007)

gonk said:


> Don't forget that once you have them out you still have the right to pursue them for any outstanding rent and other charges for oil & electricity. If you have registered the tenancy you can use the PRTB's services to do this at low cost compared to taking court action. (Remember the PRTB is there to protect landlord's rights as much as tenant's.) Might be no harm to remind your tenants of that . . .



Sounds like this lot are probably not worth pursuing for arrears; it will cost you in legal fees and they will ignore any court order in all probability. The world is full of parasites like this, the best thing is to get them out quickly and chalk it up to experience. Never let a tenant into your property on foot of any sob story; if they haven't the full deposit, say goodbye. Best form of cure is prevention, don't leave yorself so wide open the next time.


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## gonk (21 Apr 2007)

auto320 said:


> Sounds like this lot are probably not worth pursuing for arrears; it will cost you in legal fees and they will ignore any court order in all probability.


 
It costs only €25 to refer a dispute to the PRTB and their decision is binding on both parties unless appealed to the courts. However, a landlord can only ask the PRTB to adjudicate on a dispute if the tenancy is registered. 

The OP is legally obliged to register anyway and it is definitely in his interests to do so. It could prove very difficult to get the tenants out quickly otherwise. It only costs €70 - cheaper than solicitors' fees!


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## auto320 (21 Apr 2007)

Agreed, but I wouldn't waste energy in chasing the issue of payment. This crowd sound like a classic case of deliberate spongers, and are unlikely to ever pay anything. Just concentrate on getting them out.

If you have a number of properties, it might be worth pumping the oil from the tank and putting it in one of your other properties, or in your own tank. The price of oil being so high, there could easily be a lot of money in the tank that they are just going to steal from you.


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## cappamj (21 Apr 2007)

thanks for advice much appreciated. I feel so stupid as I have been renting out properties for 6 years and never had a problem, I have one tenant with me for 5 years. I will register with PRTB on mon (was waiting for them to return form with details) but will now just send in their names. I also intend to give them notice in writing first time I can meet them.

 The latest is I got a text message from her at 12noon to say he was leaving in rent at 2pm so once again I waited then got another message from her saying he is in hospital having tests and she will sort it out on Sun eve. I just have enough now even if they come up with the money I expect it will be the same next month. Moving the heating oil is a good idea as they were to replace it on leaving.


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## Dreamerb (21 Apr 2007)

cappamj said:


> I will register with PRTB on mon (was waiting for them to return form with details) but will now just send in their names.


Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but that just means the PRTB will send the form back to you because it isn't signed by tenants and doesn't have their PPS numbers.


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## cappamj (21 Apr 2007)

Dreamerb said:


> Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but that just means the PRTB will send the form back to you because it isn't signed by tenants and doesn't have their PPS numbers.



Well to date they are not answering phone, have not paid rent or signed tenancy agreement or PRTB form so not too hopeful there. I will phone PRTB on Mon and see what they say(other tenants that rented that house have been registered)


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## tosullivan (23 Apr 2007)

if no lease is signed, no registration of tenancy etc. then who is to say they are actually living there?

I'd take the hard line approach


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## cappamj (23 Apr 2007)

tosullivan said:


> if no lease is signed, no registration of tenancy etc. then who is to say they are actually living there?
> 
> I'd take the hard line approach



I gave them a months notice in writing on Sat evening(no one home so put it in letter box) I also left a message on both phones to tell them.

My neighbour phoned this morning to say she saw them loading stuff into a van yesterday and they have not been back since and heat is running all the time.
At this stage I do not want to do anything wrong so if I was to go into house with a witness (in case they say I took something of theirs)would that be Ok, again I have left messages on their phones to say I intend to go there at 8pm tonight. (they were given a rent book)


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## Thrifty1 (23 Apr 2007)

I know nothing about this area but if they have signed nothing could you, go into house when they are not there and remove all their stuff, change the locks, etc.

I know as a landlord you cannot do this but how will they prove it if nothing is signed?

Also why dont you wait around the house for them to come home and make them sign the forms and demand money from them?

Dh had wanted us to rent out our apt but its stories like this that frightened me off it.
Good luck.


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## tosullivan (23 Apr 2007)

cappamj said:


> My neighbour phoned this morning to say she saw them loading stuff into a van yesterday and they have not been back since and heat is running all the time.


you sure that's not your stuff they are taking?

as far as I'm concerned you've been very leniant....if you intend to go around with a friend as witness, make sure they are willing to get rough & ready with them, as thats what I'd be doing...

kick out the scummers and take it as a lesson learnt


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## auto320 (23 Apr 2007)

Under the circumstances, I would consider "occupying" the house with a few mates, changing the locks, and asking them who the ****they are if they turn up over the weekend. Best way to deal with con artists is to forget being Mr. nice and get back in control of the situation. It looks however as if the bird has flown, and possibly with some of your furniture.


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2007)

Dreamerb

I registered tenants with the PRTB without them (the tenants) signing the form. I had their PRSI numbers and the PRTB sent me a form saying they were registered. Incidentaly the form/letter the PRTB sent me back had many spelling errors particularly to the names. 

To OP, if they do come back, take a note of their car registeration from which you may be able to find out who they are as they may not be who they say they are. I'd take a couple of pictures of them as well. I had tenants who pretended to be other people in order to rent the property from me. You could also follow them to work and try and threaten them with calling their employer to try and get them to pay you the rent. 

Best solution for you now though is that they've hopefully left and notch it up to experience.


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## cappamj (24 Apr 2007)

Went to house last night with some "back up" but tenants had left and so had most of my furniture. Fridge, washing machine, 3 piece suite etc. The house was left in good condition apart from the smell of 2 weeks refuse.

 The house is in a quiet rural area and the neighbour that noticed van been loaded had taken the UK reg number as he could not contact me and thought it strange they were moving so soon(there is a lot to be said for small villages).
 I have checked out her work place today but that was another false lead. All is in hands of gardai now but they did mention that Insurance may not payout as I was part to blame for not checking references before I let them in.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply and it should not put anyone off renting if they are careful to start with.


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## ClubMan (24 Apr 2007)

cappamj said:


> All is in hands of gardai now but they did mention that Insurance may not payout as I was part to blame for not checking references before I let them in.


Did you insurance cover a rental situation at all or was it a standard houshold policy?


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## cappamj (24 Apr 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Did you insurance cover a rental situation at all or was it a standard houshold policy?



my insurance cover is for a rental property and when I talked to them on phone there was no mention of any problems.


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## money man (25 Apr 2007)

Oh my god!! What a case of wrong place wrong time!. Im sorry to remind you but you must really feel a mug. Its a very harsh lesson to learn because in the end they turned out to be thieves but really i doubt there should be a problem catching them in light of the fact that you have a good description , two mobile numbers (if you have a friend working for O2 or Vodafone they will tell you the registered owners and address if registered ...they usually are becuase of free credit etc.and a car registration number (thanks to your neighbour)..But you will be unlikely to make a similar mistake again.!!!


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## tosullivan (25 Apr 2007)

sounds like it was a scam.  I hope you catch them but  I bet the plates were false or just not registered here...sorry to hear this


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## Dreamerb (27 Apr 2007)

Aileen2 said:


> Dreamerb
> 
> I registered tenants with the PRTB without them (the tenants) signing the form. I had their PRSI numbers and the PRTB sent me a form saying they were registered. Incidentaly the form/letter the PRTB sent me back had many spelling errors particularly to the names.


Must depend on who opens the envelope then! I dropped over to my tenants to get the details filled in, so they put in their own names and RSI numbers, sent it off and thought no more about it - until I got the thing back from the PRTB with highlighter showing the form was "incomplete".  But they did get the spelling right when they _eventually_ accepted the registration...

To the OP: My sincere sympathies on being caught by a couple of con-artists. I hope your insurance will cover it: best of luck.


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