# RTB - Adjudication Hearing



## NY_Resident (10 Aug 2021)

I have an upcoming Adjudication hearing. I am the owner of a rental property and a previous tenant vacated the property leaving substantial rent arrears. Any hot-button areas that the RTB focus in particular on that I should over prepare for? Just looking for any general tips. Thanks.


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## Thirsty (10 Aug 2021)

Did you bring the case to RTB? Or was it the tenant?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (10 Aug 2021)

The RTB is more interested in procedure rather than justice.

Make sure you have submitted absolutely every piece of written evidence in support of your case to the RTB.

One issue that they focus on is whether the notice of termination you gave was strictly in line with the guidance.


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## NY_Resident (11 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Did you bring the case to RTB? Or was it the tenant?


I am bringing the case. Tenant vacated herself but left substantial arrears.


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## NY_Resident (11 Aug 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> The RTB is more interested in procedure rather than justice.
> 
> Make sure you have submitted absolutely every piece of written evidence in support of your case to the RTB.
> 
> One issue that they focus on is whether the notice of termination you gave was strictly in line with the guidance.


Thanks @NoRegretsCoyote . No termination notice as tenant vacated herself. I am well buttoned up on the procedural aspects. Thanks for advice re detail on evidence, as I was debating keeping it to the main pillars of evidence to make the case easier to navigate through and see the wood from the trees. As evidence for rent paid, if I submit a transaction statement from previous letting agent showing amounts processed, is that sufficient evidence of rent received…..or would I also need to back that up with bank statements showing the net transfers to my bank account from the letting agent?


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## MugsGame (11 Aug 2021)

Include any communication from the tenant that they were leaving of their own accord and anything else which supports your position that they ended the tenancy. The tenant could have a different "recollection" now.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2021)

As a matter of interest, what do you hope to achieve? 

An adjudication that she owes you €10,000 rent? 

Will you be able to collect it? 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> The RTB is more interested in procedure rather than justice.



I would have thought that, within reason, fair procedure is essential to justice.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (11 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I would have thought that, within reason, fair procedure is essential to justice.



My personal experience is that they are very focussed on narrow procedural issues such as whether notices of termination were correctly dated and the like rather than any kind of "big picture" of how how the tenant or landlord behaved in the round.

Also anything that is borderline will be viewed in favour of the tenant.


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## NY_Resident (11 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> As a matter of interest, what do you hope to achieve?
> 
> An adjudication that she owes you €10,000 rent?
> 
> ...


Two reasons (1) I believe that the tenant does have significant capacity to pay the arrears (mid-level management position in a global MNC), and (2) as a point of principle, I believe it’s important to challenge situations like this.

Then tenant here is very much caught up in the populist narrative of landlords being the bad guys, and how we “all got generous breaks from the banks last year”. Just typing this elevates my blood pressure. So in summary, collection is almost a secondary objective here….though possible as she has a reputation to uphold given professional position etc.


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## NY_Resident (11 Aug 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> My personal experience is that they are very focussed on narrow procedural issues such as whether notices of termination were correctly dated and the like rather than any kind of "big picture" of how how the tenant or landlord behaved in the round.
> 
> Also anything that is borderline will be viewed in favour of the tenant.


Interesting. I am surprised they are into detail, as in general, they take about 15 days to respond to emails!!


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2021)

NY_Resident said:


> (1) I believe that the tenant does have significant capacity to pay the arrears (mid-level management position in a global MNC),



Ah, great. Go for them so. 

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (11 Aug 2021)

NY_Resident said:


> Interesting. I am surprised they are into detail,


I think it was about 3 months from start to finish. There were a few extensions as all of the evidence I submitted to the RTB needed to be shared with the tenants, and vice versa.



NY_Resident said:


> (1) I believe that the tenant does have significant capacity to pay the arrears (mid-level management position in a global MNC),


If successful you will get a binding determination order instructing the tenant to repay you. But if they don't pay it can only be enforced via court proceedings.

The RTB website is a bit unclear on whether they will help you on this. My guess is that they do for tenants but not for landlords.


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## Thirsty (11 Aug 2021)

If you are succesful in getting your RTB ruling, be prepared to go to court. 

My understanding, from others experience, is that RTB will do nothing to enforce.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2021)

NY_Resident said:


> (1) I believe that the tenant does have significant capacity to pay the arrears (mid-level management position in a global MNC),





NoRegretsCoyote said:


> If successful you will get a binding determination order instructing the tenant to repay you. But if they don't pay it can only be enforced via court proceedings.



If you get a binding determination, ask them to pay it within 7 days, failing which, you will request their employer to deduct it from their salary.  That will probably be quicker than a court route. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2021)

Thirsty said:


> RTB will do nothing to enforce.



You make it sound like a lack of will. I suspect that only the Courts have power to enforce. 

Brendan


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## NY_Resident (11 Aug 2021)

Thanks all - I’m aware of the enforcement challenges. But the possibility of enforcement combined with potential judgements etc, may be enough in this case to “encourage” payment as reputation will be important to this tenant.


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## mikeyny (13 Aug 2021)

I had an RTB adjudication hearing in April this year with the tenant overholding . The hearing was virtual .
All evidence had to be submitted 5 days prior with personal information redacted .
All of my paperwork was in order , the tenant submitted nothing 
Myself , my property manager and my solicitor all attended via Teams as did the adjudicator.
 The tenant was on a phone no video . This put him at a significant loss as he could not see the actions / notes taken .
The tenant had an idea the current anti landlord sentiment would give him an advantage .
The hearing was in my favour and the determination order issued late July.
Since the District Court and my Solicitor are on vacation for August we will take this up again in September.


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## MugsGame (13 Aug 2021)

Well done. I'm renting but I hate either party messing the other around.



> The tenant was on a phone no video . This put him at a significant loss as he could not see the actions / notes taken .


Any chance this was a tactic to claim they were denied due process so they can demand an in person rerun?


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## mikeyny (14 Aug 2021)

The hearing was held with the travel restrictions and health guidelines in place at the time .

The  RTB  offered support to try and resolve any  issue. If for some reason the issue could not be resolved, and the hearing cold not go ahead, they would  reschedule the hearing.

Even then the tenant had 10 working days after the determination order was mailed to appeal to the board and it would be up to them to refer the issue to a Tenancy Tribunal if they deemed the Appeal was accepted .


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## NY_Resident (15 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If you get a binding determination, ask them to pay it within 7 days, failing which, you will request their employer to deduct it from their salary.  That will probably be quicker than a court route.
> 
> Brendan


Thanks Brendan - have you actually come across situations which went down this route? I like it very much, but just have a question as to whether it could get me into any legal difficulties (eg, damage to reputation resulting in loss of employment earnings etc)?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2021)

No, I haven't come across this exact one.

But how are you damaging their reputation?

You will have a court judgement and you are making people aware of it.

If you started claiming someone owed you money and was not paying it, you could be defaming them. But with a court order, it's a matter of fact.

If you get a court judgement and you then notify the employee that if he does not pay it, you will apply to his employer, he may well take action.

Or just call to Reception and leave a copy of the order and a letter for him but don't put it in an envelope so everyone can read it.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (15 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If you get a binding determination, ask them to pay it within 7 days, failing which, you will request their employer to deduct it from their salary.  That will probably be quicker than a court route.
> 
> Brendan


I don't understand this strategy.
Surely unless a court specifically mandates the employer to make such deductions this is going to go nowhere?
Or do you mean embarrass them into coughing up before it gets to dragging the employer into it?
Might any subsequent court/judge take a dim view of approaching the employer in this way?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> Or do you mean embarrass them into coughing up before it gets to dragging the employer into it?


That is exactly what I mean.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2021)

ClubMan said:


> Might any subsequent court/judge take a dim view of approaching the employer in this way?



What subsequent court hearing will there be? 

He will only do this after getting an order from the Court. 

Brendan


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## ClubMan (15 Aug 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> What subsequent court hearing will there be?
> 
> He will only do this after getting an order from the Court.
> 
> Brendan


Might there not be further court action to secure actual payment? Or is that the role of, say, a bailiff or something?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Aug 2021)

Yes, but it would be pointless if they are not responding. 

They could apply to have the tenant made bankrupt.  Or there might be a minimum debt for this? €30k? 

They could wait until he buys a house and get a judgement mortgage and put it on the house. 

But first things first, get the RTB adjudication.

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Aug 2021)

@Brendan Burgess I doubt any employer has the legal power to deduct wages on behalf of a third party in this manner. An RTB determination order does not give them such an obligation.

An RTB determination order is public on the RTB website of course, with all parties named. You can download this and send it to whoever you like. But probably unwise to instruct anyone to take action on foot of it.


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## NY_Resident (15 Aug 2021)

I got it guys — there is no legal “plumbing” which would require an employer to withhold from salary….but what is being suggested here is a potential route to apply some pressure/leverage to “encourage” payment. Thanks for the debate. First things first……Will post any interesting updates in due course!


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## Baby boomer (20 Aug 2021)

An employer CAN'T divert any part of employee's salary to a third party UNLESS specifically ordered to do so by a court of competent jurisdiction OR is authorised in writing by the employee.  

Any employer acting on an RTB Determination Order only, is in breach of the Payment of Wages Act and can be compelled to pay the withheld salary to the employee.  

The only way to get money from a debtor's employer is a District Court application for attachment of earnings.


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## OMG_OMG (27 Aug 2021)

When I was at uni I was sharing a house with a few lads.
One day the landlady knocked on the door and said she had got a call from the ESB at home who had demanded £650 off her because one of the guys in our house owed them this from buying a TV and video machine on HP on his old ESB bill.
When he left his previous house he thought they would never find him as the new ESB bill was in someone elses name.

To cut a long story short and not knowing how they connected him up to our landlady ...
He paid up pronto because he was embarrassed into paying up.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Aug 2021)

OMG_OMG said:


> He paid up pronto because he was embarrassed into paying up.



It often works. I think I would be more embarrassed at my employer knowing that I had welched on a debt than my ex landlady knowing about it.

Brendan


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## NY_Resident (11 Oct 2021)

Quick update - the adjudication hearing is in two weeks time. I have up to 5 days before the hearing to submit my evidence. At some point, this evidence will be copied and sent to the former tenant. With that in mind, am I better waiting until just before the deadline to submit it? i.e., by submitting early, is there a risk that the tenant gets to review it and potentially have an advantage in framing her own evidence to negate it. Does anybody know when the RTB release the evidence i.e., all at the same time to both parties, or as it drips in?


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## mikeyny (11 Oct 2021)

We submitted all documents via email on the morning 5 days before the hearing .
Everything was done on that morning in one batch as advised by the RTB 
The property manager , Lawyer and myself reviewed   everything prior to submitting. 
The tenant had nothing to submit so we received nothing . 
All references to “Landlord” had been changed to “property owner” ,
all references to “eviction “ were changed to “ending of tenancy” .
all references to “Sale “were changed to “entering a binding agreement “

I don’t think the tenant can negate a statement from the property manager or your bank that has no entry for rent for the months you can show .



			https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/RTBs_Guide_to_Evidence_Stage_%28Revised_Sept_2021%29.pdf


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## NoRegretsCoyote (12 Oct 2021)

NY_Resident said:


> I have up to 5 days before the hearing to submit my evidence.


I think if you have a large volume of evidence they can give the tenant extra time to respond and delay the hearing.

I don't think there is much to be gained by strategic games. On the face of it your case is very strong so you should just press ahead.


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## bipped (3 Nov 2021)

Any update on the hearing OP?


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