# Well done Munster



## Purple (26 May 2008)

Another excellent performance from the boys in red.
They showed their usual grit and composure and while I in no way want to diminish the individual skill levels of the players it was and is their ability to play as a team which is more than the sum of their parts and their incredible mental strength which enables them to maintain their composure and hold their shape throughout not just one game but through an entire season.
Leinster, who on their day can beat anyone but lack the will to win and the ability to fire on all cylinders all (or even most) of the time, could learn a lot from Munster.


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## Cabaiste (26 May 2008)

I really need to get something off my chest about Munster Rugby.

Firstly I am not a Munster man but would support any Irish team over another team.

Secondly I am delighted they won, thoroughly deserved after the route they had to the final.

But heres my gripe. WHy do they always have to resort to this cynical tactic of winding players up trying to get them sent off? I'm talking about Quinlan jeering Pelous, slapping him on the back of the head trying to draw a reaction out of him! Also in the Gloucester match, Leamy grabbing the Gloucester prop by the neck and also their treatment of Comtempomi every time they play Leinster.

They are a great team and don't need to resort to these tactics. They should let their rugby do the talking, as 99.9% of the time its more than enough!


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## Green (26 May 2008)

While I congratulate Munster, I thought it was boring enough rugby especially the last 10 minutes. While the atmosphere created by the fans was good, the rugby itself wasn't particularly exciting except for the Toulouse try.


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## FredBloggs (26 May 2008)

I was delighted Munster won. Boring game for the neutral except for the French try but brilliant the way Munster kept control of the game in the last 20 minutes. Leinster could learn a lot from them - brilliant one day, awful the next....and I'm a Leinster supporter! Hopefully winning the Magners League will give Leinster the momentum it needs to do better next year.

I do think the French were right in complaining about Owens reffing so many of Munster's games. Not that he favoured them but Munster would know exactly what to expect of him, how far they could push things etc. Quinlan for example knew he'd gotten away with not binding in the scrum previously and used this to his advanatage whereas another ref would have penalised him. Certainly if Toulouse had had the same ref in charge of them for five matches in a row Munster would, justifiably, have had reason to complain.

Well done Munster though and hopefully Kidney will bring to Ireland the ability to close out games which is what any top side needs.


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## DavyJones (26 May 2008)

Munsters win was great, the last 15 mins really showed their experience, physical and mental strength. Lots of people watching rugby these days don't understand the rules or the way the game is played. If you ever played rugby you would know all the stuff that happens off the ball even at the lowest levels. thankfully I never played in the forwards, they are forever taking cheap shots at each other in the scrums/rucks, its all part of the game.
I wish Kidney the best of luck, he'll need it, its a pity he is moving on. Munster first, Ireland second


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## Purple (26 May 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Munster first, Ireland second


You must be from Cork so


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## DavyJones (26 May 2008)

Purple said:


> You must be from Cork so


 
God no, I'm from the spiritual home of Irish rugby


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## MrMan (27 May 2008)

> WHy do they always have to resort to this cynical tactic of winding players up trying to get them sent off? I'm talking about Quinlan jeering Pelous, slapping him on the back of the head trying to draw a reaction out of him! Also in the Gloucester match, Leamy grabbing the Gloucester prop by the neck and also their treatment of Comtempomi every time they play Leinster.



These are the things you could see, the really cynical stuff tends to happen in the scrum or at the bottom of mauls etc. I think it is a bit ott to suggest that munster players are always trying to get their opponents sent off. Munster have discipline, if the other team does not half the battle is one. If you analyse every team you will find not one where some sort of winding up or foul play isn't used.



> While I congratulate Munster, I thought it was boring enough rugby especially the last 10 minutes. While the atmosphere created by the fans was good, the rugby itself wasn't particularly exciting except for the Toulouse try.


Depends really, because alot of people who regularly enjoy the game or have played it will really have enjoyed how they managed to hold ball for the last 20 minutes, it was areal display of strength both mentally and physically. i think we saw real leaders out there and O'Connell should definitely be Ireland captain going forward now.


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## FredBloggs (27 May 2008)

MrMan said:


> i think we saw real leaders out there and O'Connell should definitely be Ireland captain going forward now.


 

Speaking as a Leinster supporter I totally agree with you.

I feel theres always been a touch of the "David Beckham England Captain" about O'Driscoll - a great player but not a leader. (and I do think BOD would play better if not captain)

I don't think though Kidney will make that change as it might increase any perceived Leinster/Munster divide.


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## DavyJones (27 May 2008)

FredBloggs said:


> I don't think though Kidney will make that change as it might increase any perceived Leinster/Munster divide.


 

Remember this is the man who dropped stringer/Payne and didn't even give axel a "run out" in the final. He can and will make the tough/unpopular choices.


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## Purple (27 May 2008)

DavyJones said:


> God no, I'm from the spiritual home of Irish rugby



Good man!


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## Brianne (28 May 2008)

There is an isle, a bonny isle..........


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## Firefly (30 May 2008)

Superb performance..was at the game and it was easily the best sporting event I've attended. Delighted too that the French are so upset given how many times they've robbed us! If the French are unhappy that we stuck the ball up the jumper for the last 15 minutes then they should have dug in and turned us over / forced a knockon. Also, we had 2 tries disallowed and whilst I agree they were illegal, we still crossed their line 3 times. Bring on Edinburgh!!!


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## Teabag (30 May 2008)

As a Connacht man, delighted Munster won the Heineken Cup. I thought the game was fascinating despite the keep-ball phases Munster did towards the end. Remember there were only 3 points in it and its a professional game so it was a professional approach.
We finally beat a French team too. O'Connell was immense and should be captain of Ireland.


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## Purple (30 May 2008)

Teabag said:


> As a Connacht man, delighted Munster won the Heineken Cup. I thought the game was fascinating despite the keep-ball phases Munster did towards the end. Remember there were only 3 points in it and its a professional game so it was a professional approach.
> We finally beat a French team too. O'Connell was immense and should be captain of Ireland.



While I agree that we need a new Irish captain do remember that O'Connells bad decision as captain against France cost us the 6 nations before last.


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## DavyJones (30 May 2008)

Never thought you'd be one to hold a grudge Purple . I think ROG would make a great captain, he did a fine job in Paulie's absence. A no 10 captain makes sense since they dictate the movement of play, atleast they should!


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## Purple (31 May 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Never thought you'd be one to hold a grudge Purple . I think ROG would make a great captain, he did a fine job in Paulie's absence. A no 10 captain makes sense since they dictate the movement of play, atleast they should!


 I agree, my only concern is that he has shown himself to be a bit mentally fragile on occasions. I do agree that he did very well as captain. O'Connell seems to play better when he just has to look after his own game (and what a game!).


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## Teabag (31 May 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Never thought you'd be one to hold a grudge Purple . I think ROG would make a great captain, he did a fine job in Paulie's absence. A no 10 captain makes sense since they dictate the movement of play, atleast they should!



No I dont think 10 should be a captain - they have enough on their plates. None of the winning world cup captains were out-halfs despite having brilliant no 10s in some of the teams (Lynagh, Wilkinson etc)

1987 All Blacks - David Kirk - Scrum Half
1991 Australia - Nick Farr Jones - Scrum Half
1995 South Africa - Francois Piennar - Flanker
1999 Australia - John Eales - Second Row
2003 England - Martin Johnson - Second Row
2007 South Africa - John Smit - Hooker


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## DavyJones (31 May 2008)

Teabag said:


> No I dont think 10 should be a captain - they have enough on their plates. None of the winning world cup captains were out-halfs despite having brilliant no 10s in some of the teams (Lynagh, Wilkinson etc)
> 
> 1987 All Blacks - David Kirk - Scrum Half
> 1991 Australia - Nick Farr Jones - Scrum Half
> ...


 
I see your point, but I wounldn't discount O Gara because of his position, Its the man that is captain not his place. I notice there are no centres in your list. We should be more concerned on winning a few six nation tournaments before we are compared to world cup winning sides.


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## Teabag (31 May 2008)

DavyJones said:


> I see your point, but I wounldn't discount O Gara because of his position, Its the man that is captain not his place. I notice there are no centres in your list. We should be more concerned on winning a few six nation tournaments before we are compared to world cup winning sides.



Same story for 6 nations :

2002 France - Galthie - Scrum Half
2003 England - Johnson - Second Row
2004 France - Pelous - Second Row
2005 Wales - Michael Owen - Number 8
2006 France - Pelous - Second Row
2007 France - Ibanez - Hooker
2008 Wales - Ryan Jones - Second Row


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## DavyJones (31 May 2008)

Using that logic, A captain should be a forward?  I think a captain should be chosen on his merits. ROG has proven he is a leader and the fact that he is the best fly half in the northern hemisphere would make him my first choice.


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## mathepac (1 Jun 2008)

Brianne said:


> There is an isle, a bonny isle..........


Ah, the lone Garryowen supporter then...


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## mathepac (1 Jun 2008)

Superb performance by a class Munster outfit who eventually forced Toulouse to play the game on Munster's terms.

Surely this is a sign of true greatness in the planning and execution stages of their immense achievement. "The opposition can do a,b and c well, we can do x,y and z, so we impose our game on them". I think it all worked beautifully, was far from boring and was like a chess-match. Munster in the last 15 to 20 minutes of the game, sucked possession, hope, discipline and energy from Toulouse and thats what won them the game.

O'Connell was at his absolute breathtaking best, with Horan, Hayes, O'Callaghan and in particular  in the second half, Wallace at his best ever. 17 phases of play and not an opposition hand on the ball at this level of competition speaks volumes for preparation, physical strength, concentration, discipline, massively high pain-thresholds, self-belief, trust in the plan and the ever-present Munster heart.

Our Southern Hemisphere three-quarters ( X 3) were outstanding and Dowling picked up the pieces for a half-back who was below par (by his own very high standards) and a full-back who had an absolute nightmare of a day, God help him.

Well done Munster and well done to Mick Bradley and his lads for the performance against the BaBas.

From a devotee educated in the dark arts of tight five play by truly skilled Munster exponents.


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## Teabag (2 Jun 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Using that logic, A captain should be a forward?  I think a captain should be chosen on his merits. ROG has proven he is a leader and the fact that he is the best fly half in the northern hemisphere would make him my first choice.



History seems to suggest that its better to have a forward as captain. The outhalf has enough to worry about with his place kicking and general orchestration of play. 
Even if you have the best outhalf in the world, unless a team has a dominant pack, it will not win too many games. In order to make sure that the pack dominates and in order to lead from the front I believe a captain should be a forward. I have huge respect for BO'D but he is far too removed from the play at centre to influence proceedings much.
O'Gara's channel also gets targeted in every game because he is deemed a weak tackler and I will never forget the beating he got from some Aussie guy on the Lions tour. So in my book, O'Connell is a far better choice for captain. I actually think ROG would agree.


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## MrMan (3 Jun 2008)

> I agree, my only concern is that he has shown himself to be a bit mentally fragile on occasions. I do agree that he did very well as captain. O'Connell seems to play better when he just has to look after his own game (and what a game!).



So who would be the other options?


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## DavyJones (3 Jun 2008)

Teabag said:


> History seems to suggest that its better to have a forward as captain. The outhalf has enough to worry about with his place kicking and general orchestration of play.
> Even if you have the best outhalf in the world, unless a team has a dominant pack, it will not win too many games. In order to make sure that the pack dominates and in order to lead from the front I believe a captain should be a forward. I have huge respect for BO'D but he is far too removed from the play at centre to influence proceedings much.
> O'Gara's channel also gets targeted in every game because he is deemed a weak tackler and I will never forget the beating he got from some Aussie guy on the Lions tour. So in my book, O'Connell is a far better choice for captain. I actually think ROG would agree.


 
The next time I see him, I'll ask. Its true, as the saying goes, forwards win games and backs decide by how much. I also think that O'Connell would/does make a fine captain but I'd love to see ROG have the honour to lead his country.


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## Purple (3 Jun 2008)

MrMan said:


> So who would be the other options?



Dunno, why do I have to be constructive all the time?


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## MrMan (4 Jun 2008)

> Dunno, why do I have to be constructive all the time?



It was a genuine question, dunno would have been enough.


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## Sunny (4 Jun 2008)

MrMan said:


> So who would be the other options?


 
From what I can see there are only three natural leaders in the Irish team. They are O'Connell, O'Driscoll and O'Gara. I can't see anyone else with the possible exception of Horgan who apparently is a good talker and leader. My own choice would be for O'Connell to get it as he is already the natural leader of the pack. I think O'Driscoll has got alot of undeserved flak for his captaincy but I would like to see him left alone to try and rediscover the spark that has gone from his game recently. 

However if I was allowed to pick the captain for the game on Saturday on sentimental reasons, it would be John 'the bull' Hayes. An superb servant to Irish Rugby and is playing better than ever without getting the headlines and credit.


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## DavyJones (4 Jun 2008)

Completely agree about Hayes, a real unsung hero. the next time Ireland play they should keep an eye on him to really appreciate his work rate. No doubt that BOD is a fantastic player and a huge influence in any team he graces. 
Am I being bias but should the Captain come from Munster? as they are a team used to playing at the highest level and winning. I say that with all due respect to the other provinces.


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## MrMan (4 Jun 2008)

> Am I being bias but should the Captain come from Munster? as they are a team used to playing at the highest level and winning. I say that with all due respect to the other provinces.



I don't think so, the captain should be the guy that best suits the role. O'Driscoll could be argued as our best player over the last number of years but that shouldn't mean captain, thats playground mentality. Munster have been by far the best province over the last few years, but that shouldn't influence who the captain is to be. He should be picked on how well he can make decisions under pressure, how he conducts himself to the media, and how much respect he can get from the team. I think O'Connell has what it takes to lead the team, and O'Gara would be second. I was never convinced of O'Driscoll as a captain and there was always the sense that the team wasn't totally behind him.


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## gearoidmm (11 Jun 2008)

As a slight aside, I watched the match in Kiely's in Donnybrook.  There was a decent enough atmosphere and a big drowd.  The whole thing was nearly ruined by the presence of 3 Leinster supporters in their late twenties up the back who spent the majority of the match shouting abuse at any Munster supporters in the bar.  Not the usual banter that goes on between rival supporters, more visceral.  There was one Frencman in the bar.  He had his back to these guys and he had been reading a novel prior to the match starting which one of the lads stole, tore in half and dumped behind a bench.  I had to look around to make sure I wasn't back in school again.

Ridiculous behaviour typical of a certain mindset which (and I'm inviting abuse here) seems to be more prevalent in the leafier suburbs of Dublin.


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## Mumha (11 Jun 2008)

gearoidmm said:


> As a slight aside, I watched the match in Kiely's in Donnybrook. There was a decent enough atmosphere and a big drowd. The whole thing was nearly ruined by the presence of 3 Leinster supporters in their late twenties up the back who spent the majority of the match shouting abuse at any Munster supporters in the bar. Not the usual banter that goes on between rival supporters, more visceral. There was one Frencman in the bar. He had his back to these guys and he had been reading a novel prior to the match starting which one of the lads stole, tore in half and dumped behind a bench. I had to look around to make sure I wasn't back in school again.
> 
> Ridiculous behaviour typical of a certain mindset which (and I'm inviting abuse here) seems to be more prevalent in the leafier suburbs of Dublin.


 
Well, after all, it IS the spiritual home of Irish Rugby.


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## Purple (11 Jun 2008)

MrMan said:


> I don't think so, the captain should be the guy that best suits the role. O'Driscoll could be argued as our best player over the last number of years but that shouldn't mean captain, thats playground mentality. Munster have been by far the best province over the last few years, but that shouldn't influence who the captain is to be. He should be picked on how well he can make decisions under pressure, how he conducts himself to the media, and how much respect he can get from the team. I think O'Connell has what it takes to lead the team, and O'Gara would be second. I was never convinced of O'Driscoll as a captain and there was always the sense that the team wasn't totally behind him.


 I have to agree that O'Driscoll doesn't seem to have the team behind him. He also plays better when he's not captain. O'Connell has made some stupid mistakes as captain but he is still probably the best man for the job.


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## Purple (11 Jun 2008)

mumha said:


> well, After All, It Is The Spiritual Home Of Irish Rugby.


 :d


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## DavyJones (11 Jun 2008)

Purple said:


> I have to agree that O'Driscoll doesn't seem to have the team behind him. He also plays better when he's not captain. O'Connell has made some stupid mistakes as captain but he is still probably the best man for the job.


 
Examples please?


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## Purple (11 Jun 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Examples please?


 Kicking the ball against France instead of running it with less than a minute to go. It only cost us a 6 Nations grand slam.


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## DavyJones (11 Jun 2008)

Are you talking about the 07 vi nations? O Gara puts over penalty with about 2 left on the clock. France win their own kick off and go on to score try and convert.


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## DavyJones (14 Jun 2008)

I have watched the summer tour with great interest and am impressed with the performance of our lads considering it's at the end of a very hard season. I think Paddy Wallace has had a good tour and Kearney has been super. Kidney will have to work hard on the line out, it's our weakest area by far. Although we lost the two games I really belive we had the beatens of the both of them. I am quitely confident for next season and its great to see young players looking at home on the international stage.


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## DavyJones (18 Nov 2008)

Maybe I am biased, but that is the best game of rugby I have seen in a while. The men in red did themselves proud. They must feel robbed. Well done Munster.


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## PM1234 (18 Nov 2008)

I am so disappointed for them. They must be devastated. They gave their heart to that game.


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## jasconius (18 Nov 2008)

How can you say that it was the best game of rugby seen in a while.

As a neutral, I thought it was a second string game with a big billing - therefore it was expected to be good - but it wasn't.
Munster men were lying all over the pitch time wasting - even the commentator agreed that. I didn't see too many All Blokes lying down though.

To be fair the reserve team All Blokes were not very good - they looked distinctly nervous under the onslaught - particularly the kicker.

Two poor games at Thomond Park in a row after the Ireland - Canada walkover where people were going home at half-time.

Gonna look for a refund of my licence fee.

Sorry


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## DavyJones (18 Nov 2008)

jasconius said:


> How can you say that it was the best game of rugby seen in a while.
> 
> As a neutral, I thought it was a second string game with a big billing - therefore it was expected to be good - but it wasn't.
> Munster men were lying all over the pitch time wasting - even the commentator agreed that. I didn't see too many All Blokes lying down though.
> ...



Spoken like a true Leinster fan

Lying on the field, it's called catching breath. This 2nd All Black team give the Scottish national side  a good going over. 

nearly every prediction was the AB's by 20+. If you can't give this Munster side credit, you are not a rugby person.


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## Billo (18 Nov 2008)

The referee did'nt do Munster any favours. He was pretty poor IMO.


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## Teabag (19 Nov 2008)

Unreal stuff by the Munster men. The future of Irish rugby is looking good if some of the performances last night are to go by. Honestly thought they'd get a hammering and did not fancy the +24 handicap bet.
All Blacks were well rattled. Great tradition.


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## MrMan (19 Nov 2008)

jasconius said:


> How can you say that it was the best game of rugby seen in a while.
> 
> As a neutral, I thought it was a second string game with a big billing - therefore it was expected to be good - but it wasn't.
> Munster men were lying all over the pitch time wasting - even the commentator agreed that. I didn't see too many All Blokes lying down though.
> ...




I think you should look for a refund because you obviously cannot see whats in front of you.


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## sandrat (19 Nov 2008)

werent the crowd great? That complete silence thing really put the kicker off. I loved that. Plus I love seeing stringer play, gotta love that ankle tap trick of his


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