# [Req] Landlord Requirements for Tenant Changing to Rent Allowance



## FrCrilly (16 Apr 2009)

Hi All,

My tenant has become unemployed and he now needs to pay rent via rent allowance, which I have agreed to facilitate. I know very little about the subject, outside the fact that my tenant will arrange it with social welfare, who will then pay it to me directly. 

Can I ask anyone with experience on the subject, do I have an obligation as a landlord to do anything in preparation of this? (eg paperwork). 

Any pointers will be greatly appreciated. Thanks In Advance for All Reponses.


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## minion (16 Apr 2009)

There will be a form for you to sign.  Under no circumstances write down that the rent is more than it is for the tenant to get an extra few bob. Then revenue will catch up with you for tax and you'll end up paying for this extra.

Ring the welfare officer and tell them that you are insisting on their share of the rent going straight into your account.  Bypassing the tenant.

If they refuse this, then refuse the whole deal.

This is to protect yourself from the tenant spending it and then saying that they havent got it.  It make no difference at all to the welfare officer or the tenant.
It will also ensure that you are not left being owed much money if the tenant decides to skip on you.


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## gipimann (16 Apr 2009)

If the Rent Supplement is approved, you will receive a letter from the HSE asking for your PPSN or Tax Reference Number.  This is requested on behalf of the Revenue Commissioners who are sent details of any Rent Supplement paid in respect of your tenancy (whether the payments are sent to you directly or not).


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## DeeFox (17 Apr 2009)

The tenant will give you an orange form on which you must fill out page 2 - it has basic details on it.  The Welfare officer will follow up with a phone call to confirm same.


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## murphaph (17 Apr 2009)

You can't call the tenant's CWO. They'll just refuse to deal with you as is right and proper. If the tenant has been paying his rent and is now unfortunately unemployed odds are he'll get his RS and pay the rent as before.


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## minion (18 Apr 2009)

murphaph said:


> You can't call the tenant's CWO. They'll just refuse to deal with you as is right and proper. If the tenant has been paying his rent and is now unfortunately unemployed odds are he'll get his RS and pay the rent as before.



They always answer my calls.  In fact they usually all me first after i put a note on the form saying to call me as my signature is only valid as long as the RA is paid directly into my bank account.

Its a simple take it or leave it offer that i give them.  They lose nothing and have a proper 2 way relationship with me, by doing it my way.  I get more security.  Win, win.


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## murphaph (18 Apr 2009)

Yikes, that's completely the opposite experience I've had. I am surprised the CWO is dealing with the landlord as their relationship is with their client and it's a confidential relationship, or should be. The recipient can at any stage (IIRC) instruct the HSE to make the payment directly to them and not to the landlord and once the tenant is in place we all know they have their rights and can't be turfed out for changing he method of payment so long as the rent is paid (and for months and months even if it's not paid with the useless PRTB).


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## minion (19 Apr 2009)

murphaph said:


> Yikes, that's completely the opposite experience I've had. I am surprised the CWO is dealing with the landlord as their relationship is with their client and it's a confidential relationship, or should be. The recipient can at any stage (IIRC) instruct the HSE to make the payment directly to them and not to the landlord and once the tenant is in place we all know they have their rights and can't be turfed out for changing he method of payment so long as the rent is paid (and for months and months even if it's not paid with the useless PRTB).




Utter Rubbish.
My advice to anyone taking rent allowance is to call the CWO and sort out your terms with them.
Sign nothing without a note of your conditions on it.  Even make a new lease if you feel like it.  You own the property, you decide how the rent is paid to you.
Dont take anyones word for it here.  Check it out for yourself.  
I have to say from my experience CWOs have been very professional and very agreeable to my terms.  They know what is fair to all parties.


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## Bronte (20 Apr 2009)

As previously indicated you just sign the form from the HSE.  If it's an existing good tenant I wouldn't have any requirement that the HSE paid me directly but if it was a new tenant I would probably insist on being paid directly, you could make it a condition of taking the tenants.

I've spoken directly to the CWO for a tenant and they were very pleasant to deal with.


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## Blarney (21 Apr 2009)

I have a different situation arising! A prospective new tenant has asked me to fill out the form for less than I am charging as I am charging 100 more than the max allowed according to him. He says he will pay the difference. Not having dealt with this before what is all this about? If anyone knows I would appreciate it!


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## Trustmeh (21 Apr 2009)

Its a fairly common occurrence frowned on by the CC. They prefer that the tenant only rent in an area that they can use 100% of the amount granted by the RAS scheme. However, in many cases these amounts are low in comparison to the locations the tenant is searching.

If you trust the tenant will pay the difference you can go for it. In some cases RA will refuse to allow tenant to rent at that location - and they may be doing them a favor by forcing them to live within their means. Being devils advocate it limits the tenant from looking in many areas of a city/county because simply rents are higher there.

RA does not care about differences in houses based on quality or location - once that quality is above the minimum standard.


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## gipimann (21 Apr 2009)

Blarney said:


> I have a different situation arising! A prospective new tenant has asked me to fill out the form for less than I am charging as I am charging 100 more than the max allowed according to him. He says he will pay the difference. Not having dealt with this before what is all this about? If anyone knows I would appreciate it!


 
Legislation on Rent Supplement disqualifies persons from receiving the supplement if the rent charged exceeds the maximum rent limit for the area & family size.

If you understate the rent charged, you are providing false information to the HSE, which could be seen as facilitating SW fraud (I know this isn't your intention).

Yankinlk said about going for it if you're sure that the tenant can pay the difference (currently about 25 euro per week). Rent Supplement payments will be reduced in June by at least 8% - it's possible that the tenant may not be able to afford to pay the difference then, and you could be into an arrears or a rent re-negotiation scenario.

PS - Rent Supplement (operated by the HSE) isn't the same as RAS (rental accommodation scheme operated by the County Councils)


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## Trustmeh (22 Apr 2009)

I thought rent supplement was being replaced by RAS - at least that what is happening in my city/county.


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## NHG (22 Apr 2009)

Oh I hope not, I have no problem with Rent Supplement, but I will NOT participate in RAS under any circumstances.


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## gipimann (22 Apr 2009)

The way it's supposed to work is that Rent Supplement is for persons requiring short-term assistance with accommodation costs.  Longer-term accommodation needs are the responsibility of the Housing Authority (aka the Local Authorities), which includes RAS and the Local Authority Housing program (such as it is these days).

However the transition to short-term/long-term assistance with housing need is still a work in progress!


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## minion (22 Apr 2009)

NHG said:


> Oh I hope not, I have no problem with Rent Supplement, but I will NOT participate in RAS under any circumstances.



Me too.  
I dont mind filling in the Rent allowance forms for people who live in my properties and have fallen on though times at all.

RAS is a con.  They pay below market rate and you get all the hassle anyway.  I know people who have been called in to renegotiate their RAS payments down (so the rates are not garaunteed at all).  And they are already lower than the market rates in their areas.


The only possible advantage might be that there are no vacant periods.  But any good landlord should not have more than 2 weeks vacant a year.  If they have more than that you are doing something wrong.  ie they are not aware of the rental rates in their area.


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## Trustmeh (23 Apr 2009)

minion said:


> RAS is a con.  They pay below market rate and you get all the hassle anyway.  I know people who have been called in to renegotiate their RAS payments down (so the rates are not garaunteed at all).  And they are already lower than the market rates in their areas.



In some areas maybe - but not all. In can tell u that in my area i was able to ask for rates to go UP two years ago.  A blanket statement like yours above is just plain wrong.

In another location (diff CC) I would agree the rates were lower than the market and I had to refuse RA. A few years later lo and behold the rental market dropped through the floor and I was happy to take it again.


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## Jack L (27 Apr 2009)

Quick Question does anyone know what date in the month the rent allowance gets paid to the landlord?


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## gipimann (27 Apr 2009)

Jack L said:


> Quick Question does anyone know what date in the month the rent allowance gets paid to the landlord?


 
It depends on how often Rent Supplement is paid by the CWO in the area - it could be weekly, 4-weekly or every calendar month.  

If it's paid calendar monthly, payment issues during the last week of the month.


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