# Myth? not putting fathers name on birth cert = more social welfare €



## stephnyc (6 Mar 2006)

My brother's girlfriend is insisting that if she does not identify the father on his child's birth cert she is entitled to more Social Welfare. 

Dont want to get into the fraud question here, but is she correct? I am trying to find some definitive answers on whether she is entitled to the same if she name's him, or is it just that the Dept. will look to the father for maintenance? Would really appreciate some facts - Thanks


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## askalot (6 Mar 2006)

How is their relationship because if he agrees to that he will have no rights regarding the child - unless he goes to court later on. In which case I don't think the courts would look favourably on a father that didn't acknowledge his child for a few quid. This is quite apart from how the child would feel later on in life.

Has the mother thought about getting a job?


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## stephnyc (6 Mar 2006)

I'm not sure what you mean by 'agrees to that' - AFAIK, if the girlfriend refuses, his only option is to go to court to have his name forcibly put on the birthcert? As the relationship is already on very shaky ground, he is unwilling to do that - yet. 

He is not trying to avoid paying maintenance - she is trying to get maintenance from him plus "extra" from SW. What I need are logical facts that show her she will not lose out. Any suggestions?


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## askalot (6 Mar 2006)

These people might be able to help. 

[broken link removed]


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## lucylou (6 Mar 2006)

Hi,
It won't really benefit her not to have his name on the birth cert, this is how the SW work their lone parent payment: the mother has to seek maintenance from the father, a full social welfare lone parent payment is about 160 euro a week. Say for example the father agrees to pay 60 euro, the SW will top this up to 160.i.e they will pay her 100 they will look for proof that she is seeking maintenance, meaning she has to name the father, the SW will send him a letter acknowledging the amount he is paying. Presumably if she is not putting his name on the birth cert she will have to say to the SW that either a) she deson.t know who the father is, or b) he's left the country. For the sake of the child the parents names should both be on the cert for obvious moral reasons and for avoiding awkward questions later on in life. If he wanted to enforce his name going on the birth cert, he could just say he will refuse to pay maintenance. If she takes him to court for this she will have to declare him to the social welfare, meaning that they will adjust her SW payment according to the amount he is paying her. So she will be back to square 1 with the same amount of money if he was paying her maintenance and she was claiming Sw.
As regards access and stuff the courts now look favourably on the father being part of the childs life and will do everthing to encourage contact with the child.
With regard to parenting the father has no rights at all if they are not marrried. A way around this is to seek guardianship, which means that the father can have a say in choice of schools, etc. You need a solicitor to do this. It also means that she cant leave the country (bit extreme i Know) witht eh child without the fathers consent. She may contest him having guardianship but it is easy to get it in court. He needs to keep photos, receipts, etc, like to prove he has a relationship with the child. 
As well, tell her it is not worth claiming illegally, a friend of mine got caught and got a bill from the sw for 23 grand!! 
Also for the father there is a tax break you can get for being a lone parent i.e if the child stays with him at least one night during the tax year, it means he gets a lone parent tax credit (double the normal). He wont be able to claim that if she refuses to acknowledge him as the father!

Wish him luck, I had a huge battle with my ex over maintenance, custody etc..... and it was not pleasant!! Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!  
Hope this helps, also ring treoir they have a really good booklet for free which explains all the options.


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## stephnyc (6 Mar 2006)

That makes great sense to me - i will look to treoir to get their leaflet & pass it on - fingers crossed

thanks lucylou & askalot!


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## Murt10 (6 Mar 2006)

Have a look at para 8 of this document which explains exactly how maintenance is assessed.

http://www.welfare.ie/publications/sw82.html

Murt


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## ribena (7 Mar 2006)

If your brother is in a relationship with this girl now all he has to do is to go to the Registrar of Births, Deaths & Marriages and sign the Registrar to have his name on the Birth Cert.  AFAIK he needs to have his girlfriend there also but he should check this out.  I don't think it makes any difference to his girlfriends SW application if the father is named or not but it is in your brother's best interest to be named on the Birth Cert in the event of them splitting up or god forbid, anything happening either of them.  What will affect the SW application for Lone Parents is if the two of them are living together but she is claiming not to be living with him.  As for a Passport, if he isn't named on the Birth Cert, she can just sign a declaration to say that she is the Sole Guardian and can obtain a Passport without his Consent.  If on the other hand he is named on the Birth Cert, she has to get him to sign the Passport application to effectively give his permission to get a Passport for their child.


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## josky2 (7 Mar 2006)

It is hugely important that his name is on the birth cert and that he is appointed guardian. I would think that it is not legal for a mother to write the name of the father as "unknown" when this is not true or can be established via DNA testing. As stated in the posts above treoir is a good resource and I think has sample guardianship forms. See also rollercoaster and dads-house for specific named contacts with phone numbers all round the country. Not dealing with this properly now will lead to a whole heap of trouble in later life for all concerned. You mentioned that you are looking for logical pointers on how the mother will not lose out. She has the upper hand in all matters concerning welfare, access, courts etc and it is your brother who does not, as pointed out in previous posts. An unhealthy trend amongst separated parents where one parent pays more maintenance than declared so access won't be frustrated for one and to gain more SW payments for the other has lately caught the eye of both the Revenue and DFSA. If the relationship is still "on but shaky" a far simpler approach is to try relationship counselling where these matters can be dealt with in a rational and non-confrontational way.


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## stephnyc (7 Mar 2006)

I agree. Having his name on the birth cert is very important for the father and the child. Not to mention potential future issues for access or even legal/fraud issues.

I appreciate all the comments regarding 'relationship conselling' etc - but I cannot get involved in their relationship. I just want to be able to provide facts on the matter so the issue can be resolved sensibly. The mother is well aware that she has the upper-hand concerning welfare and access - I just want to show her that she wont gain financially from denying my brother the few rights he is entitled to.


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## bond-007 (7 Mar 2006)

There is nothing to stop the mother putting down father unknown on a birth cert.


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## lucylou (8 Mar 2006)

Maybe not but she has to think of the impact that will have on the child in later life. Even if the child has a relationship with the father he/she will question why he is not on the birth cert.
Stephnyc, you need to explain to this girl that whatever is happening in their relationship the child is most important. She may be claiming to put the child first but she needs  to get rid of any bitter feelings and lose the attitude that she is entitled to more money. It sounds like your brother wants to do the best by the child so if that means standing up to her then so be it. Even though the law states the mother is the sole guardian the courts will do everything in their power to encourage the bond between father and child. they now know that  it is in the best interest of the child to have both parents in their life.


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## lff12 (21 Mar 2006)

askalot said:
			
		

> How is their relationship because if he agrees to that he will have no rights regarding the child - unless he goes to court later on. In which case I don't think the courts would look favourably on a father that didn't acknowledge his child for a few quid. This is quite apart from how the child would feel later on in life.
> 
> Has the mother thought about getting a job?


 
He has no rights anyway.
He is however, probably trying to ensure that if the law changes over the next few years that some Irish equivalent of the UK CPA will not pursue him for maintenance payments. Theoretically lone parents are expected to pursue the father for child support, though in practice only separated spouses are pursued on this.

As for the mother seeking a job, unless it is paying well above the minimum wage, she's probably better off (sadly) on welfare.

As for the original question, not having a name on the birth cert doesn't per se increase payments, it simply complicates the process of looking for money from him at a later point.


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## dodo (31 Mar 2006)

I know someone who said she did not know the father said it was a one night stand,  she got all her benefits for been a lone parent including a house,she was still with the childs father and he was paying maintenance this went on for over 5 yrs until he became a fully qualified sparks and then they bought a house together and are  now married, I know them well  and they said that if they had not done it that way they never been able afford their own house,


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