# No interest paid by Carrick on Shannon CU since '08? Teller no AGM's held?



## leinster (10 Oct 2012)

I was just at my credit union after a long absence of 7 years to be told they can only provide me with interest up to 2008. 
The teller agent said there had not been an agm since 2008 and therefore she couldn't write up the interest for any further years. 

After I kept asking for an explanation she said there was a lot going on in the background and she did not know when the next agm was going to be. Is this proper norm for a financial institution?

I want to take my money and go. If I withdraw all except a €10 will I get the interest for the sum that was on deposit for that year?

It all seems peculiar.


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## vandriver (10 Oct 2012)

What credit union?


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## Slim (11 Oct 2012)

Your credit union is clearly in some difficulty. Hard to believe you have not heard any stories in local area or media on this. Your savings are guaranteed up to €100k. If you withdraw your savings now, it will depend on whether or not a dividend is eventually declared for the intervening years but you will be entitled to the retrospective payment. However, I would not be standing on one leg waiting for any or a substantial dividend in this case! Probably best to withdraw and place in a higher earning account or state savings. S


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Oct 2012)

> The teller agent said there had not been an agm since 2008 and therefore  she couldn't write up the interest for any further years.



I suspect that you were misinformed by the teller or else that you misunderstood her. 

I don't think that the Central Bank would allow this to happen. There must have been an AGM and there must have been annual reports in the meantime. 

They have had their AGMs, but they just declared no dividend as their finances did not allow it.

If you tell us the name of the Credit Union, someone may know the story.

Brendan


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## leinster (11 Oct 2012)

Thanks for the replies. 

The CU is in Carrick on Shannon. I made inquiries and have confirmed that the credit union is to have an AGM at the end of this month which is to cover the last three years i.e. from 2008. Any interest payable is to be then signed off on. I haven't lived in the area for a number of years so wouldn't hear what's going on. Anyone I did know has since moved on aswell...


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## vandriver (11 Oct 2012)

This was commented on in 2010 in AAM: 

Askaboutmoney.com > General Financial Issues > Credit Union issues > Irish Times: Credit Unions Face Serious Solvency Issues


kaplan said:


> Chasm - seems your credit union didn't inform you its agm had been delayed by under instructions of the regulator.
> 
> It should have under law held its AGM by the end of January unless instructed to do otherswise by the regulator.
> 
> ...





chasm said:


> Kaplan, The first time i requested it, the guy asked was there anything specific i wished to know about, to which i said no, i just wanted to see the copy of the AGM. The Guy said he would send me out a copy in the post.
> I hadnt heard anything for over a week so i went back in, (as i was also waiting for them to send out my passbook, which had been left in to be uupdated). I asked again about the copy of the AGM which i had requested on my last visit. The same guy was behind the counter as on the previous visit, and he just said "has it not been sent out yet?" and then said he'd locate one and send it out.
> 
> After another couple of weeks i went back in and asked and there was a young lady behind the counter. I asked her about the copy of the AGM and she said that the AGM had not been held yet.
> ...


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Oct 2012)

Hi Leinster

Apologies for doubting you. That is extraordinary. 

I checked with someone in the Credit Union movement who advised me as follows: 


> The Regulator has said that around 30 Credit Unions  are seriously distressed', and do not have the required minimum Regulatory Reserve Requirement of 10% of Assets. In these cases, the Regulator has stopped CUs from holding their AGM and will not allow a dividend to be paid until the CU comes up with a sustainable business plan. These Cus may also have serious loan book impairments, low bad debt provisions and also property impairments.
> 
> If a member wants to withdraw their savings today (say), then they will get  Credit for any accrued interest (Dividend) once the Dividend % has been passed by members at the next AGM. The dividend will be calculated on the Savings daily balances from the last year financial year end up to the date of withdrawal. If however, no AGM has been held (Carricks case), then it is unlikely that any dividend will be allowed by the Regulator and all the member can do is to withdraw their Capital.



Brendan


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## leinster (11 Oct 2012)

Thanks Brendan and All, very startling reading indeed. It's an express train to Carrick. Took my eye off the ball.

Leinster


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## chasm (12 Oct 2012)

Hi,
I posted on this originally last year. 

Unfortunately this issue has never been highlighted in the local media in the shannonside area - imo, probably to avoid further stress on the CU with mass withdrawals.

When Ii contacted the financial regulator in Jan 2012 regarding this issue with Carrick-on-shannon CU I was informed that they had told the CU to "hold off" from having an AGM until the books were in order. They just said all would be discussed at the next AGM but could not say when they would be in the position to allow it.

I queried why there were regulations as to when an AGM must be held but that that could be overlooked if the CU was in difficulty but was told to wait for the AGM.  

Surely shareholders have a right to know what is going on, if the books aren't "in order" then we should at least be able to see them (an overview of the a/c), good or bad. 

I recall reading an article, which claimed that Ck-on-Shannon credit union had not taken any court action to seek repayments of debts up till that time. I don't know whether this has changed in the meantime. I have heard of people receiving solicitors letters and I know of one person who owes a substantial amount but i doubt they will ever see a penny of it back. 

Leinster, haven't heard anything about an AGM myself, but then i have never received the notifications, usually my parents passed on theirs. I will make a point of going if they do hold one though!


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## chasm (20 Nov 2012)

AGM for years ended 30 Sept 2009, 30 Sept 2010 and 30 Sept 2011 is being held on 28th November.  Letter states that no dividend is being paid for those years.


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## Time (20 Nov 2012)

Get your money out so.


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## pkwoof (26 Nov 2012)

Interesting thread particularly since I became aware of a this sort of issue at Ballyconnell CU last year, where I have been a saver for a number of years. They, having completely missed an AGM at the end of 2010, finally held an AGM after the end of 2011. 

When I stood up and asked about the absence of an AGM the previous year I was told it was because the Governement had blocked it - but with no further explanation; that at least is a bit clearer now - but I was still angry that at that earlier time at the end of 2010 they had not at least had the decency to inform their members that things were being deferred for at least one year.

So last year they held "two AGMs in one" and at the meeting they stated that no dividend would be given for either year. The end result is that I  removed most of my savings from them. Why on earth would one maintain a savings deposit which was getting no return and with no explanation exactly how this had come about.

It is now obvious that certain CUs got into a lot of problems caused by what must have been very bad decisions on loans that they had made. This, though not with hindsight now, surprised me since I had believed that such "co-operatives" not needing to please stockmarket shareholders had really no need to make risky loans. In this way they were mimicking the banks and moving away from the much more traditional role of lending to first time owner occupiers already holding significant equity in their properties.


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## Slim (26 Nov 2012)

pkwoof said:


> It is now obvious that certain CUs got into a lot of problems caused by what must have been very bad decisions on loans that they had made. This, though not with hindsight now, surprised me since I had believed that such "co-operatives" not needing to please stockmarket shareholders had really no need to make risky loans. In this way they were mimicking the banks and moving away from the much more traditional role of lending to first time owner occupiers already holding significant equity in their properties.


 
Many credit unions also had to take hits on Corporate Bonds, Investments of other types, such as shares as all investments seemd to tank as the recession grew. Many bad lending decisions but many bad (with hindsight) investing decisions as well. Your savings are guaranteed in the credit union up to €100k. Hopefully your credit union will bounce back and commence paying dividend again in the near future.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Nov 2012)

> I had believed that such "co-operatives" not needing to please  stockmarket shareholders had really no need to make risky loans.



Hi PK

The Credit Unions do have a social lending function.  They will often have lent to people who would not get loans elsewhere. They probably have a higher proportion of unemployed and social welfare recipients on their books. 

But they were also uncompetitive with their rates, and it was cheaper for people to borrow from the banks. As a result they found it difficult to lend money and invested in some of the bonds to which Slim has referred, because they didn't really know what they were doing. 

They were saved from themselves by Brendan Logue the Credit Union Regulator, whom they really resented. The Central Bank regulation may have swung too far now, though.

Brendan


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## leinster (8 Feb 2013)

Hi Brendan,

I feel it appropriate to follow up here.

I heard this morning from a reliable source that Carrick Credit Union have a written sign up saying that AIB will not honour any cheques issued from them. 

You refer that Credit Unions have a social lending function but with such practice that is going on it doesn't put much faith in the credit union system as a "savings" function. 

Regards,

Leinster


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