# Life as an accountant



## cormacol (15 Jan 2006)

Lads/lassies what's its ;like to be an accountant


----------



## CCOVICH (15 Jan 2006)

Great earning potential, very strong market at the moment, plenty of scope to work abroad.  Don't get caught in the trap of working crazy hours and it's a great job.


----------



## cormacol (15 Jan 2006)

Is it interesting though?


----------



## CCOVICH (15 Jan 2006)

Depends on what you are doing-pure book-keeping isn't what I'd consider interesting, but there are so many things you can do when you qualify that nearly everyone will find something that interests them.

I find my job interesting, but I'm sure there are others who wouldn't.


----------



## cormacol (15 Jan 2006)

Thanks for your replies - what area are you involved in


----------



## CCOVICH (15 Jan 2006)

I am in financial services and would advise anyone considering a career as an accountant to consider this sector.

One disadvantge (in Ireland) is that there are few opportunities outside Dublin.  I would consider it to be one of the more interesting areas to work in at this point in time and salaries are generally higher than average.

Have you searched this forum for other threads on being an accountant?  Also, have a look at recruitment websites (FK International, The Accountants Panel, Accreate etc.) to get a flavour of some of the options that are open to qualified accountants, salary levels etc.


----------



## CGorman (15 Jan 2006)

Wow, your enthusiasim COOVICH has really reassured me... i'm (hopefully) heading off to DCU for 3yrs of Accounting & Finance later this year.


----------



## Itchy (15 Jan 2006)

As a non-business (almost) graduate what is the commitment to a firm if you are selected to do the professional exams with? i.e. how long to stay with them after you get your professional exams?

Any idea of salary for a trainee in the first three years?

Do they want graduates straight out of uni or would they still take people 1 year or 2 years after graduation?

Kinda of looking at the Big Four rather than smaller firms... Thanks.


----------



## CCOVICH (15 Jan 2006)

Others would disagree, but I would strongly recommend a Big 4 firm as opposed to a smaller firm.  Having Big 4 experience on your CV will get you into many interviews.  How you do after that is up to you.

If you don't have a relevant Masters, the standard training contract is 3.5 years, with a relevant Masters, it's 3 years.  A relevant Masters gives you exemptions up to your Final Admitting Examination (FAE).

The earliest you can sit your FAE is in the second year of your contract AFAIK.  You then see out the rest of your contract, and are then free to leave.  Note that passing your FAE does not mean you are a qualified accountant-you have to see out the remainder of your contract, submit a Record of Experience, and pay your admission fees to the ICAI (if you are going the ACA route).  Note that most firms or companies will pay your annual subscription fees but not your admission fees.

The starting salary for someone in a Big 4 firm should be around 22k-25k, but it could be more.  This won't increase much in the first year or two, but if you pass your FAE, you will move to a salary somewhere between 35k-40k.  There will be a non-taxable cash award of around 2.5k paid by your firm on passing of the FAE.

Most firms will be interested in someone 1-2 (or more) years out of university/college.

Once you qualify, expect a salary of between 45k-55k (today).

It's a career path that has worked for me, and I would highly recommend it to others.


----------



## Itchy (15 Jan 2006)

Cheers that is fantastic.


----------



## CGorman (15 Jan 2006)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> If you don't have a relevant Masters, the standard training contract is 3.5 years, with a relevant Masters, it's 3 years.  A relevant Masters gives you exemptions up to your Final Admitting Examination (FAE)



Forget about the exemptions for a minute (althought they are very relevent!), just say I get a 3yr  Accounting & Finance degree from DCU and then decide to try and get a masters before trying to get into a big 4 firm and start the 'real' training  - would it be better to do a pure accountancy masters or one in, say, management - like, would a bit of variation on the CV be more useful in the medium term than pure accountancy. 

Hope you undrstand that!


----------



## Itchy (16 Jan 2006)

Are there oppertunities to travel abroad or is one limited by the training i.e. it is Ireland specific and N/A in UK or further afield?


----------



## CCOVICH (16 Jan 2006)

CGorman

A Masters in Accounting (MAcc) is only really useful of getting exemptions while still in college as opposed to trying to study and work at the same time, or if you intend lecturing in a university/college at some stage. Having said that, it is a highly regarded qualification.

Wrt to other Masters courses, that's really a wider non-accounting issue that I can't really comment on as I am only commenting on my own experience. A business masters of nearly any sort will improve your CV, some more so than others obviously.

Itchy
You are not really limited to Ireland. The ICAI qualification allows you to work in the UK etc., but it doesn't prevent you from working in the Caymans, Bermuda, USA, Australia etc.

All in can say is that by qualifying as an ACA you leave more doors open for yourself than most other career paths.


----------



## CGorman (16 Jan 2006)

Thanks again CCOVICH, I'll do the leaving cert and see how it goes from there! No point looking too far ahead.


----------



## Betsy Og (17 Jan 2006)

While Big 4 are grand and may open doors later, if your long term intentions are or could be to move down the country then probably best not to stay too long beyond your contract.

The difficulty with Big 4 is that, given the size, inevitably you get pidgeonholed which wont help your broader experience which is what you would need outside Dublin.

So, try to get into as general an area as possible and dont overstay. Big 4 are a good way to "get on the board" though.


----------



## buzybee (18 Jan 2006)

I worked in financial services after doing the Business Degree.  Even though it was well paid and very interesting, the experience is not really 'valid' down the country.

I would recommend financial services if you would like to stay in Dublin.

Even though the financial services sector was going well, there were rumours of jobs being transferred to Eastern Countries.  I did the other half of my CIMA exams.  When the option of redundancy came, I took it.   I got a job as an accounts assistant down the country.  I did Debtors, Creditors, Wages etc, in a hotel for two years. I went to financial services straight from college, so my 'general' accounts experience was lacking.  The accounts assistant 'all rounder' role was the best way to get a broad experience of how the invoices, payments, stock take etc, make up the P&L and Balance Sheet.  I couldn't recommend this experience highly enough.  Now I am working in another small company near home, bringing the accounts to B/S stage, stocktaking etc.

The big 4 training can open doors if you want to get into a multinational.  Bear in mind that the multinational experience is more narrowly focussed and it may be hard to get a similiar type job in small rural areas.

Long term, I would think the best experience is to be an accountant in a fairly small company, as the experience is broad based and you can work anywhere in Ireland.  Also, if the company grows, you are there to get experience of costing machinery and doing certain project work.  I have never worked in practice, but if you liked practice, this too could mean you could work anywhere in Ireland.




I worked in financial services so​


----------



## CGorman (18 Jan 2006)

Thanks Buzybee


----------



## Itchy (18 Jan 2006)

Are the big 4 really in a different league to the small practices? For example, TLS would that not be fairly common and applicable to all companies big and small?

TO get the best all round experience/knowledge would you lean towards buisness advisary services? Or does it depend on what you want out of it?


----------



## CCOVICH (18 Jan 2006)

'Business Advisory Services' is basically pure audit for your first 3 years.


If you think you want to work in practice later on, go into TLS (Tax and Legal Services) and sit both your tax and ACA exams.  You will then be in a postion to do the books and prepare tax returns, a must in smaller practices/companies I would imagine. But yes, TLS has a much narrower focus, and you don't get as much exposure to the general operations of a company as you would from audit.

In bigger organisations, the tax and finance departments are totally separate.

Both accountancy and tax are excellant careers from an earnings point of view.  After that, it really depends on what the individual wants


----------



## Kiddo (19 Jan 2006)

I work in small practice and have worked in a few different small practices over the last 10 years. IMO small practice will give you broad experiance as you will be doing everything from basic book-keeping, accounts preparation, auditing, company office returns, income & corporation tax computations and returns. 

This will benefit you if you decide to stay in practice or make the switch to industry. It shouldn't be a disadvantage if you want to move into financial services either. It will also benefit should you decide to pursue the tax exams and become a tax advisor as you will have a good understanding of the nuts and bolts of accounts.

Depending on the firm you train with the mix of clients will vary but in most places I have worked you will get everything from a plumber to a pig farmer. Also there tends to be a good mix between accounts prep/audit and pure audit jobs...variety being the spice of life 

The main reason I have steered clear of Big 4 is the thoughts of pure auditing day in day out  ....never mind 3 solid years of it..3 months would have me banging my head against a brick wall .

You could also consider the ACCA exams. The main difference is there is no contract & you can sit the exams twice yearly (June & December) so in theory could qualify quicker than with ACA.. You are required to have 3 years relevant experiance but this can be gained before, during or after you pass the exams. While there was a snob value attached to the ACA qualification years ago, those days are for the most part over. ACCA is also a worldwide recognised qualification.

Any of you who are still in school or college and are considering a career in accountancy I'd recommend that you try get some work experiance in the summer holidays...it might give you a better idea of what to expect.


----------



## CCOVICH (19 Jan 2006)

3 years isn't that long.  You have to look at what you want to do in 10/15/20 years time.  Also, working in a small practice or not having financial services experince *is* a significant disadvantage if you want to work in financial services, as employers look for people with experince, as there is a steep learning curve in the sector.

However if you feel that your future lies outside Dublin, and in industry or practice as opposed to say, financial services, you may be better suited to a smaller practice.  Be prepared to work for less and have less entitlements to study leave etc., but that is a trade off you will have to be prepared to make.

As Kiddo points out, there are other options such as ACCA that you can persue if you feel that you don't want to be tied down for 3 years.  However, I would take the view that 3 years is a fairly short period of time in the context of your career.


----------



## Kiddo (19 Jan 2006)

I am just pointing out that studying ACA with Big 4 is not the only way to become an accountant, there are other options.

Re Financial Services jobs...surely the oppertunities would be limited to those who have Financial Services audit experiance? Do all trainees get this?

Some people are suited to Big4 practice some are not. I know from talking to others that it wouldn't be for me and I have always steered clear. Another popular option is to train in a small pracitce and move into Big 4 for a year or two. I know a couple of people who have done this.

I'm also pointing out that as an ACCA student you have the freedom to move jobs and can get the exams out of the way quicker. I worked in Financial Services for a while before I qualified, but didn't like it and moved back to practice. 

As for the extra study leave...aren't most Big 4 students taking extra study leave in lieu of overtime?

It also depends on the practice re salary...as with most jobs some pay better than others. In my last job I was being paid at least €5k more that I would get in Big4...so it does vary.


----------



## Bonafide (19 Jan 2006)

ACCA is also very well recognised world wide, which is nice to know if you wish to travel as an accountant. I believe New Zealand has a shortage of Accountants and ....men interestingly?


----------



## Dowee (19 Jan 2006)

Kiddo said:
			
		

> Re Financial Services jobs...surely the oppertunities would be limited to those who have Financial Services audit experiance? Do all trainees get this?



I had no Financial Services audit experience but now work in the area, so this isn't necessarily true



			
				Kiddo said:
			
		

> As for the extra study leave...aren't most Big 4 students taking extra study leave in lieu of overtime?



I think Big 4 firms tend to be more generous with study leave than smaller firms.


----------



## stuart (20 Jan 2006)

With all the argueing between ACA and ACCA I though I'd give the CPA a mention
Irrespective of snobbery on par with ACCA even if they won't admit it
You also have the freedom to train in practice or industry
I am a trained CPA but was given ACCA by applying for it and sitting an interview (throgh a reciprical agreement between the institues)

Just to give a quick run down of my career path

I started a IATI course after the leaving cert and after 2 years of this post elaving cert couse started CPA with exemptions from the first year and half of the second
There is not a necessity to go to university or college to become an accountant
After all most studying will be done through night course depending on which designation you decide to with

I trained in two small practice in Ireland with a short stint in the tax office between both
I moved to London when qualified and workled there for two years in, by Irish standards, a medium sized practice, with some pretty large clients
After that I went to Barbados for two years working for a Big 4 firm

When I came back to Ireland got a job as a financial controller part-time and got my own practicing cert
Now run my own small (but growing) practice

The Big 4 experience is valuable (in some ways) but the small practice experience is what is relevant to what I am doing now
If I had not got that and trained in a Big 4 firm I would not have enough knowledge to go out on my own, I believe
But unless you see yourself running your own practice I'd say stay away from training in practice as you will probably get better paid in industry and defiently will in financial services

Hope that helps

stuart@buyingtolet.ie


----------



## slave1 (20 Jan 2006)

I'm an accountant 11 years, no big 4 experience, choose the ACCA route as was very flexible so I could gain my experience through temping, I'm now in middle management and have made the progression through experience and not having to work all the hours God sends, comfortable lifesytyle and if I wanted to go further I could but my lifestyle is fine and I'm happy.
If I was hiring in the morning big 4 experience is huge and a definate advantage over someone without it.
I managed without it but from a management perspective, big 4 is a critical requirement in an ever compliant industry


----------



## Itchy (20 Jan 2006)

Are the exams majorally different between ACCA and ACA? If so, is it alot of work to getboth qualifications? Is it an advantage to have both or not necessary?


----------



## steveyd (20 Jan 2006)

I would say the examination are probably similar enough,

I wouldnt see the need to have both qualifications as you could probably go for same jobs with either. I would say to have the Tax exams or Corporate treasury exams and/ or ACCA/ACA would be a better choice for you if you wanted to keep doing exams


----------



## Bonafide (20 Jan 2006)

In our experience regarding recruiting from the big 4, unless they have audited similar companies as ours in their training, there is little advantage over any other qualified accountant who has no experience of the business. Any immediate benefit from a compliancy point of view would be quickly negated if we ourselves were not so diligent in continuing professional development. Accountants have an onus to keep up to date with standards and ethical requirements themselves. After a few years experience, whether they be CIMA, ACA, CPA or ACCA the good ones will always rise to the top.


----------



## Winnie (20 Jan 2006)

Ok,

I think if you want to be an accoutant & get the opportunity to train with Big 4 I would defo go for it above a smaller practice...........better pay, greater flexibility in terms of time off, more opportunity to widen experience & go abroad on secondment etc.  also great college-like enviroment among all the trainees.
Only thing I would say is that if you don't eventually want to go into financial services make sure you arent put in this dept as it is very hard to find your way out of this area (not so bad going other way around) 
3 year contract is hell at times but worth it in the end........ & defininitely better job prospects immediatly after qualification (though this prob lessens later on in your career)

Good luck


----------



## hjrdee (23 Jan 2006)

Just to put a countrywide perspective on it, I work in practice in the west, in a fairly big local firm. For new trainees starting off last year, the basic package was €11,500 p.a. Good experience in all areas I suppose, but for that money you wonder whats the point of going to college for 4 years. Not just our firm either, same starting pay in nearly all firms in the area.


----------



## cork (23 Jan 2006)

Money is accountancy practices can be pretty poor. 

Size of practice can metter little.

Hours can be un sociable.

Got out of it myself and went back to college - I am now back to sqare one.

I will not be returning to public practice.

I could name and shame a couple of big practices but I think bad working conditions is far more common than not.


----------



## Winnie (24 Jan 2006)

Money in Big4 is a lot better than small practices - starter this year I think were on €25k ......... no great for someone with a degree/masters but get pay increase every year & after pass FAEs goes up considerably.  Most of the Big 4 are paying so well now that if you leave you take a pay cut.

In saying that everyone thinks that accountants are loaded but wages arent really as good as other professions - ie lawyers etc.  In fact a good plumber prob earns more......


----------



## Bonafide (24 Jan 2006)

Especially in the first few years after qualification and when you consider that tradespeople get paid for their overtime. In a lot of cases newly qualified Accountants work long hours for a salary and average bonuses. There is great opportunity though for high earning potential as you get more experienced.


----------



## Betsy Og (25 Jan 2006)

Anybody considered the personality traits required (am I'm not referring to the "borin basted" sterotype).

You need attention to detail, diligence, probably a bit of greed as not huge motivation outside of money and maybe, generally, liking doing a good job.

Probably not for someone who has to love their work, or who wants to feel what great good they are doing for the world - not a dreamers profession.

Should people at leaving cert be encourged more to weigh up whether, given the demands of the job and what you get out of it, its "for them". Its seen as a nice safe lucrative professsion but if you're a bad accountant there arent too many places to go.......


----------



## Bonafide (25 Jan 2006)

Betsy Og said:
			
		

> not a dreamers profession.


 
As opposed to Tax Consultancy?


----------



## Betsy Og (25 Jan 2006)

Bonafide said:
			
		

> As opposed to Tax Consultancy?


 
God help us no !!

I suppose the odd one "dreams" up something creative but most batter away and hold their indemnity insurance policy tightly while they sleep


----------



## buzybee (25 Jan 2006)

I disagree with the comment about not being passionate about accountancy.

I work as an accountant in a small company, doing everything from debtors/creditors to year end accounts.  I always loved figures at school.  I love spotting a figure which looks unusual, then looking up transactions, finding out an explanation.  I also like the debt collection most of the time.  I like lodging X amount of money to the account, trying to get discounts from suppliers.  I love it when  the cash flow works right and there is a nice healthy bank balance.  I also 

I think that if you are a bad accountant, you will be found out, as you need to be very accurate.


----------



## buzybee (25 Jan 2006)

I disagree with the comment about not being passionate about accountancy.

I work as an accountant in a small company, doing everything from debtors/creditors to year end accounts.  I always loved figures at school.  I love spotting a figure which looks unusual, then looking up transactions, finding out an explanation.  I also like the debt collection most of the time.  I like lodging X amount of money to the account, trying to get discounts from suppliers.  I love it when  the cash flow works right and there is a nice healthy bank balance.  I also like 

I think that if you are a bad accountant, you will be found out, as you need to be very accurate.


----------



## buzybee (25 Jan 2006)

Sorry, posted twice.

I also think that the big money is a myth, and that you have to work in a large company in a senior role to earn really good money.  Even then, you have to work so many hours, that the pay only averages out at a reasonable amount per hour.

Smaller companies, and in particular practices just don't pay well.  I qualified last year, and I am on 28K. (Prior to this I was on 23K) I have to do all the accounts and payroll for this, work well over the 40 hrs a week.  I haven't taken hols yet in this job, as I darent think of the backlog.

In fact trainee accountants would be as well off to work as accounts assistants while studying for exams as they would earn more money.

If you are motivated by money, I don't think accountancy is the profession, unless you are prepared to open up a practice.

The good thing about accountancy, as with office work, is that it is a 'sitting down' job, and you are inside out of the cold weather.  The money is reasonable when you are qualified as compared to a shop assistant, but not brilliant.


----------



## CCOVICH (25 Jan 2006)

buzybee said:
			
		

> I also think that the big money is a myth, and that you have to work in a large company in a senior role to earn really good money. Even then, you have to work so many hours, that the pay only averages out at a reasonable amount per hour.



Can you produce any evidence that shows what a CFO or finance manager earns per hour compared to an accountants assistant?  Big money is not a myth, take a look at the recruitment pages of any newspaper.



			
				buzybee said:
			
		

> In fact trainee accountants would be as well off to work as accounts assistants while studying for exams as they would earn more money.



That's a bit of a short term view, as when you want to move up the ladder, your experience will be looked at to see if you are suitable for promotion.  Taking a job on the basis of slightly better money in the early years of your career doesn't necessarliy make sense long term.



			
				buzybee said:
			
		

> If you are motivated by money, I don't think accountancy is the profession, unless you are prepared to open up a practice.



Take a look at the composition of boards of major Irish and international plcs.  You'll find a good sprinkling of accountants.  These lads and ladies have done very well for themselves after qualifiying as accountants.



			
				buzybee said:
			
		

> The money is reasonable when you are qualified as compared to a shop assistant, but not brilliant.



That depends where you work.  The money on offer in the 'Big 4' and in industry for newly qualified accountants is very good compared to what many other newly qualified professionals earn.


----------



## CGorman (25 Jan 2006)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> Take a look at the composition of boards of major Irish and international plcs.  You'll find a good sprinkling of accountants.  These lads and ladies have done very well for themselves after qualifiying as accountants.



This is apparently very true, i've read on countless occasions that the highest precentage of CEO's in the US hasve accountancy backgrounds (as opposed to HR, Marketing, Production, Sales etc.)


----------



## WarrenBuffet (25 Jan 2006)

Am really enjoying this thread i have to say - accountancy is something i am looking into at the moment as a possible career move. I qualified as an Engineer a few years ago but this academic year i began a part-time diploma in accountancy / business (dont want to get too specific for fear of recognition!).

However since so many accountants are contributing to this thread i hope you wont if i ask a few more questions!

- Is it true that the Big 4 only recruit in September for the following September? (Are there spaces still available now for next year?)
- How amenable are they to recruiting an engineer coming up on 3 years out of college? Would the fact i am doing a closely related course help me? 
- Would i be considered too old (mid-twenties) to begin an apprenticeship? Would there be many other trainees in a similar situation to myself?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## Winnie (26 Jan 2006)

- Big 4 do a big recruitment drive in sept for the following sept (all new trainees start in sept) but it is possible to go for interview at other times of the year - expecially if you know someone within the firm who will refer you
- No prob if you don't come from non accounting discipline....although they may prefer you to do a PDA course (professional Diploma in Accountancy) which is a one year conversion course - they will pay
- Not too old.........a number of people who started with me were mid twenties.......


Don't agree with Busybee's comments about training outside a firm..................newly qualified in Big 4 are on 35k immediately after passing exams & go up to 45k 6 months later.........and again increase every year after that too.


----------



## Bonafide (26 Jan 2006)

CGorman said:
			
		

> This is apparently very true, i've read on countless occasions that the highest precentage of CEO's in the US hasve accountancy backgrounds (as opposed to HR, Marketing, Production, Sales etc.)


 
Apparently this is even more true in times of recession, I've often read that more accountants hold a seat on the boards of companies when the economy isn't performing well as to when it is performing well.


----------



## Betsy Og (26 Jan 2006)

buzybee said:
			
		

> I disagree with the comment about not being passionate about accountancy.
> 
> I work as an accountant in a small company, doing everything from debtors/creditors to year end accounts. I always loved figures at school. I love spotting a figure which looks unusual, then looking up transactions, finding out an explanation. I also like the debt collection most of the time. I like lodging X amount of money to the account, trying to get discounts from suppliers. I love it when the cash flow works right and there is a nice healthy bank balance.


 
Seek medical help urgently  

While its great that you get a buzz from it, I dont think thats the reality for a lot of people. I'm not complaining (much) myself but I'm not in that particular area.

The money is definitely there if you are good enough, try to get on the highest "stream" initially at least - that probably means Dublin Big 4. It looks good on a CV. Arguably you can earn a few bob more intially by doing accounts assistant but you are not exactly staking your claim as a high flyer.

Even if the top flight or the geography of it is not for you, as long as you dont overstay then it wont harm you if you want to scale back or move out of big schmoke.


----------



## Itchy (26 Jan 2006)

WarrenBuffet said:
			
		

> Am really enjoying this thread i have to say - accountancy is something i am looking into at the moment as a possible career move. I qualified as an Engineer a few years ago but this academic year i began a part-time diploma in accountancy / business (dont want to get too specific for fear of recognition!).


 
I have to agree. I am studying engineering at the moment but I really feal accounting is for me. Thanks for all the contributions.


----------



## mickeymouse (26 Jan 2006)

Back to the transfer of an engineering profession to an accounting profession again. I have my own ltd. Co. and contract myself,alone, to a no. of multi national companies as a contract engineer and although am very well paid as things go (€90k turnover last year for 5 yrs experience) I don’t see this being sustained. Although I agree with other posters that the cream will always rise to the top no matter what you profession you are in I do see the days of what I am doing now limited and think I will have to take a substantial paycut eventually if I stay in this line. 

I have gained some experience in doing end-of year accounts as a director of the limited company and the experience I have to date will apparently count towards some of the required experience needed. I have decided to go the ACCA route primarily because it is more flexible and allows me to continue working in the engineering area for another year to make some more money and then perhaps get my work experience in industry/ Big 4.
I hope to be finished in approx 4 years time. 

However maybe someone could answer the following

*Assuming my experience to date will count for 1 year experience of the 3.5years total, and that I will have completed (and passed!) 60% of the ACCA exams  would I be going in very junior to the Big 4 or industry? 

*Has anyone gone down this route from engineer to accountant and if so how did it work out, what route was taken etc


----------



## dam099 (26 Jan 2006)

mickeymouse said:
			
		

> I have gained some experience in doing end-of year accounts as a director of the limited company and the experience I have to date will apparently count towards some of the required experience needed.
> 
> 
> *Assuming my experience to date will count for 1 year experience of the 3.5years total, and that I will have completed (and passed!) 60% of the ACCA exams would I be going in very junior to the Big 4 or industry?


 
Have you had an indication from ACCA that they might give you 1 years credit for this experience? I don't know much about how they award for experience (I did Chartered) but I am a little suprised that they would give this much credit for doing your own accounts. For a contractors own company turning over E90K I can't think you would have spent anywhere near the equivalent of a years time doing your own accounts (even if I assume that your entire 5 years engineering experience were using this company). There is also the fact that this was possibly ad hoc and unstructured and unsupervised training (with maybe some assistance from your accountant?)

I think in Big 4 you would still be relatively junior especially in Audit as you probably have no audit experience.


----------



## BarryAsh (30 Jan 2006)

Hi guys,

I'm an acca finalist earning peanuts at the minute in a small practice.  not being looked after in a training/development way either.  nobody ever has much time for that stuff. 

looking for a change, a step away from accounts prep and company secretarial, although I do want to stay in a practice environment so i can get my PC (didn't do college and preofessional exams to not be able to sign off on a set of accounts)

I want a bigger kind of a position, ideally one that's project based.

Does anyone have any suggestions?  Big 4 or top 20?  one things for sure I aint stickin around where I am!


----------



## Bonafide (30 Jan 2006)

If you want to get your PC then accounts preparation and company secretarial is the line of work you are pursuing, isn't it? If you want to move to project work, why are you hanging around waiting to get your PC?


----------



## BarryAsh (30 Jan 2006)

maybe i don't know as much as I thought I did about practice and how to get the PC.  when i say project work I mean stuff like insolvency and business turnaround, done on a project basis.  it might be wishful thinking on my part but as I say, I like project based work and want to work towards my PC while doing this project based work.

am I fooling myself?


----------



## Winnie (30 Jan 2006)

Big 4 seem to be recruiting a lot of qualified staff & it is good to go on your cv......stay a couple of years.  if you know someone in one of the companies you can share a nice hefy referal fee!

Would be good to get experience in larger clients if you already have smal client experience.


----------



## BarryAsh (30 Jan 2006)

Sorry Winnie,  I don't know if your post was for me or not.  do you mean stay where I am?  if so - can't do it!


----------



## Bonafide (31 Jan 2006)

I think Winnie meant stay a couple of years with one of the big 4 - then your cv will show a few years small practice and a few years big 4. Would make you quite employable.


----------



## BarryAsh (31 Jan 2006)

Thanks Bonafide,

but as for big 4, am I likely to be stuck doing the same type of job day in day out? once I'm qualified of course

personally I'd prefer a more varied and interesting workload - would a top 20 be more like it do you think?


----------



## Bonafide (31 Jan 2006)

Well, if you have a PC and want to work in insolvency and business turnaround the big 4 won't necessarily give you that experience and neither will top 20. I would think big 4 would have closer ties to your future career aspirations.


----------



## BarryAsh (31 Jan 2006)

not to mention my salary aspirations! Thanks again Bonafide, much appreciated.

But as a matter of interest, how coud I get into insolvency & business turnaround?


----------



## Kiddo (31 Jan 2006)

mickeymouse said:
			
		

> I have gained some experience in doing end-of year accounts as a director of the limited company and the experience I have to date will apparently count towards some of the required experience needed.


 
I doubt that you will be allowed count your experiance of preparing year end accounts for your own company towards membership as it would largely be unsupervised. I would check this with the ACCA but I would be shocked if they accept this experiance.

BarryAsh 

I have worked in a few small practices' and its my experiance that its usually the partners or senior staff that would be mostly involved in any project work with trainees or newly quals helping out with the donkey work. In the last practice I was at manager level and would have been involved in some projects such as Revenue Audits, setting up & assisting clients with implementing new accounts packages, assisting other accountacy firms performing due diligance on our clients and preparing files for liqidations. But the bones of my job was accounts prep & audit...though in a more supervisory capacity. The partner would have dealt with any refinancing/restructuring, tax planning, efficient running of client business, advising client re new business ventures/business expansion etc.

I'd advise you to discuss the type of work you are interested in with a recruitement agency and also ask at interveiws if there is much scope for you to get involved in project work, what type of work this would be, how often it arises. I don't know what the set up is in Big 4...maybe someone else could advise you. 

Wherever you end up be aware that you will need to ensure that the practise is an ACCA approved training practice as your 3 years (at least 2 post qual) experiance towards your p.c. must be obtained in an approved practice.

See here for more details

[broken link removed]

AFAIK the market is quite good at the moment (in Dublin anyhow) A friend recently moved jobs an the agency had over 100 jobs in practice.


----------



## BarryAsh (31 Jan 2006)

thanks Kiddo,

sounds like good advice.  next stop -  a good recruitment consultancy.


----------



## Kiddo (31 Jan 2006)

BarryAsh said:
			
		

> thanks Kiddo,
> 
> sounds like good advice. next stop - a good recruitment consultancy.


 
 I have sent you a pm.


----------



## BarryAsh (31 Jan 2006)

Thanks Kiddo,


So whoever is in practice - what do you consider the most interesting work? - besides audit, accounts prep and company secretarial, none of which float my boat.


----------



## killeoin (31 Jan 2006)

Hello peeps!

Welcome to me first of all!

Second just a quick question while we are on the subject of accounting, I have a few interviews coming up with some "small firms". I'm dreading the "What do you know about us?" or "Why do you want to work here?" question as to be honest I don't know anything about them only what their website says and nothing comes up when I google them! 
Any help?


----------



## Kiddo (1 Feb 2006)

killeoin said:
			
		

> I'm dreading the "What do you know about us?"


 
In this case I'd say "I had a look at your website so I know that you (whatever info they have on the website) but I would be interested to hear more about the type of clients you have, what sort of work I would be doing day to day... blah blah blah! If your interviewing through an agency they should be able to give you a bit of backround. 



> "Why do you want to work here?


 
In this case...assuming your a trainee...*my answer* would be " well I feel that I will get good experiance in a small practice and will get some exposure to company secretarial, tax work etc that I may not get in a bigger practice.

If they are Dublin based practices, feel free to pm me... I might know of them and be able to give you some info.


----------



## AlanCR (14 Jan 2007)

Would a medium sized firm ,with say 20/30 graduates every year, be the best option between a small firm and one of the big 4. The chances of getting pigeon holed into a particular sector will be eliminated but you could be dealing with larger clients than you would for smaller firms. I've being offered places with BDO, Grant Thortan and Mazars in Dublin as well as one of the big 4. Any thoughts?


----------



## Mizen Head (14 Jan 2007)

Stick with the Chartered, (ACA) That snob value is still very much attached and is worth real money in the salary. plus it is a real confidence maker to be a Chartered Accountant.   Have a look at the job adverts in the papers ,  many actually say they want Chartered. I do'nt  think i've ever seen an ad that specified ACCA.   Good Luck


----------



## bazermc (15 Jan 2007)

Bonafide said:


> I believe New Zealand has a shortage of Accountants and ....men interestingly?


 
Where do i sign up?


----------



## bazermc (15 Jan 2007)

Mizen Head said:


> Have a look at the job adverts in the papers , many actually say they want Chartered. I do'nt think i've ever seen an ad that specified ACCA. Good Luck


 
Jaysus what papers do you read.  Most adverst say accountant wanted ACA, ACCA or CPA etc...


----------



## AJC (15 Jan 2007)

AlanCR said:


> I've being offered places with BDO, Grant Thortan and Mazars in Dublin as well as one of the big 4. Any thoughts?


 
Take the Big 4 job imho - down the line when you are trying to move on it will be to your advantage. I started with a big 4 firm after college, and nobody ever asks anymore how I did in my degree (pass) as they automatically assume I was near the top of my class. 

If you feel that you are getting too much experience in a particular area that you are not interested in, then you can always ask internally for some more variety. I'd also say that it depends on your longer term plans. If you want to work for large corporates then big 4. If you see your self working as FC in a small company - and nothing wrong with that (maybe as a life style choice) then one of the smaller firms might be better.


----------



## Glenbhoy (15 Jan 2007)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=38263
The thread above may be useful too.


----------



## Bonafide (15 Jan 2007)

I don't want to burst the bubble bazermc, but doesn't the ACCA stand for the Association of CHARTERED Certified Accountants (maybe the other way around - certified CHARTERED I am open to correction) ...


----------



## Mizen Head (15 Jan 2007)

bazermc said:


> Jaysus what papers do you read. Most adverst say accountant wanted ACA, ACCA or CPA etc...


 
Hi Bazer

Of course, I meant ads that specify ACCA ONLY, We,ve both seen plenty that specify ACA  ONLY, but not too many (if any) where they specifically wanted an ACCA.  

My favourite paper is ' De Paper'  or ' The Examiner' as some call it.   lol

ACCA is a fine qualification, bit if a guy is starting out he might as well know from the start what its like in the real world, and go for it with ACA.


----------



## Bonafide (15 Jan 2007)

Have to agree with Mizen Head, especially when you go for a new job post qualified (even up to 3-5 years post qualified). After that though its about the positions you have held.


----------



## Spondulicks (31 Jan 2007)

They forgot to mention there is a good mix of men and women in accounting so the social life is good. 

It develops your critical thinking : you need evidence. Tax is good for looking for solutions. Management accounting is about design, decisions , implementationand behaviour. Finance has great breadth and intellectual challenge in it but also involves collecting the cash.

Remember accounting is about people : informing them, interpreting for them, persuading them, educating them , listening to them, learning from them, and transacting with them. People think it is just about numbers : that is bookkkeeping and computers now do much of that.

The hours are long and there are stresses but you can learn to handle those and you can find a niche where they are at the right level for you.


----------



## Winnie (2 Mar 2007)

following on from this - is there a point where an accountant can get a life?  I accepted the overtime & crap when I was training - means to an end & thought short term could handle it...............but at what point do the hours start getting better?  Are there any accountants who get away with doing 9-5?


----------



## bazermc (3 Mar 2007)

Winnie said:


> following on from this - is there a point where an accountant can get a life?  I accepted the overtime & crap when I was training - means to an end & thought short term could handle it...............but at what point do the hours start getting better?  Are there any accountants who get away with doing 9-5?



Not a chance 8am till after 6 most days!


----------



## slave1 (5 Mar 2007)

move out of practice and you will get better hours, I've been around and you can get 9-5 especially in industry, when you have kids you'll realise that you need to leave "on time" versus leaving "early" and you know what, the world won't end and the place won't fall apart


----------



## bazermc (5 Mar 2007)

slave1 said:


> move out of practice and you will get better hours,



I am in industry (financial services) - but things are a mess so going to take a year at least to settle.  Anyway I am only a young fella and want to build my career now before i have kids etc


----------



## Newby (5 Mar 2007)

I'm not sure about all this. Being an accountant generally means deadlines. Despite best efforts there will usually be a working late phase. Maybe its just been a bad day.....


----------



## CCOVICH (7 Mar 2007)

I my view, you can generally make your own hours.  9-5 is probably doable if you are willing to settle for less money and prospects etc.  This applies to industry as well.


----------



## Kiddo (8 Mar 2007)

Hi Winnie

Our official hours are 9 to 5.30 and I'm usually gone by 5.45. At month end...with 5 day post month end reporting deadlines...6.30 is the latest I'd stay, for two maybe three days. 

I work in industry as FC for a multi-national company. The FD & MD are very much in favour of the work/life balance




> willing to settle for less money and prospects


 and while the prospects aren't so great in that the FD is only a few years older than me and not likely to move on anytime soon..the salary is great!


----------



## seriams (8 Mar 2007)

I was just about to post a thread so am delighted this is up for discussion fairly recently and am hoping some of you may take a look.

I graduated in marketing 2 yrs ago and am now in full time employment. 
I'm now interested in taking the accounting route and there are so many options I'd be better off if there were less. 

Do I register with CPA, ACCA or ICAI, - Whats the difference and who has is best recognised. 

I know I won't ever get what I'm earning now when I begin training so if I begin training half way through course then can I expect to earn more??

As is, with CPA I'm exempt from Formation 1 and 1 subject in Professional 1 but it requires 3 years training?  Is this my best option?

All advice is very welcome


----------

