# Can ex partner sell his house?



## Dairylea (14 Jul 2020)

Hi, can my ex sell his house? A bit of background...I am a qualified cohabitant for the cohabitant redress act. Currently waiting on solicitors appointment.

The house is his outright and has been our family home for 10 years. Mortgage  recently cleared. He ended the relationship and has temporarily moved out. I remain with kids. 

He is putting pressure on me to move out. I was homemaker while he was family earner so I have no income and all assets are in his name. 

The cohabitation redress act has not been discussed between us yet. Mainly due to apprehension on how this news will be received by him.  I’m trying to cover all scenarios once the discussion is had. I presume he will move back into the house. My question is...can he sell the house if he wanted? 

Many thanks for any input.


----------



## Thirsty (14 Jul 2020)

Dairylea said:


> ...putting pressure on me to move out


Stay where you are.
Document all interactions and what is said.
Do not engage.
Get to see your Solicitor as soon as you can.


----------



## Dairylea (14 Jul 2020)

Thirsty said:


> Stay where you are.
> Document all interactions and what is said.
> Do not engage.
> Get to see your Solicitor as soon as you can.



Thank you for the reply. 
Yes I have documented the conversations. I’m waiting on legal aid which will be a further 5-7 weeks unfortunately. 
I have suspicion that he does know about the redress act hence the rush to get us out of the house. It wasn’t the initial agreement when we split up but a week later it is the stance he is taking. I assume he got legal advice within that week maybe. He does have other properties and accommodation options. But he feels that I’d be entitled to rent allowance so I should take that. My issue among others is that it forces me onto benifits long term due to cost of rent and childcare.


----------



## Thirsty (14 Jul 2020)

"..he feels that I’d be entitled to rent allowance.."

Why are you listening to what he says? Is he your solicitor?

Don't engage, don't respond; don't let it take up head space. Get your appointment date confirmed, bring someone with you, take notes. You won't remember everything.


----------



## DeeKie (14 Jul 2020)

Stay in possession of the house, see a solicitor. I don’t agree you shouldn’t interact. Try to be civil and polite for your own sake and the children’s.


----------



## Thirsty (15 Jul 2020)

Advice was to not engage on discussion re moving out; not a suggestion to cease all communication.

When a father wants to remove his children from the only home they have with no idea about where or how they are going to live, be reared or educated  civility is clearly not within the relationship.

It's time we stopped telling women to be 'polite'.


----------



## DeeKie (15 Jul 2020)

Thirsty fair point. I was not telling the woman to be polite for politeness sake, just to be strategic.


----------



## Dairylea (15 Jul 2020)

Thank you for your advice guys. Yes going forward I don’t plan to engage verbally about the housing. Keeping to minimum contact but civil and polite in front of the kids. It’s a fine balance.


----------



## elcato (15 Jul 2020)

Am I right in saying that he plans to move you to one of his other properties so he can get you to claim rent allowance and either pay him that as rent or let you keep it as income ?
Edit: Oh on second glance probably not but please clarify.


----------



## Thirsty (15 Jul 2020)

elcato said:


> Am I right in saying that he plans to move you ...



They are people not pieces of furniture!


----------



## PaddyBloggit (15 Jul 2020)

Thirsty said:


> They are people not pieces of furniture!



Bit harsh there Thirsty. It's only a figure of speech.

My reading of the situation is that he wants her and the children to move out to a rental property (not his) and off she goes and claims rent allowance.

He wants rid of her and he wants to keep all his property to himself.

What a selfish man he is. He's in for a rude awakening as she has rights to the family home especially as she has spent the last 10 years of her life being the home maker.

Dairylea.... don't move out. Get legal advice. Be civil, courteous etc. but be totally vague when/if discussing his big plans to 'move' you.


----------



## Dairylea (15 Jul 2020)

Yes just to clarify, he wants me to find a landlord who accepts rent allowance and for me and children to move out so that he can move back into the 4 bed house (family home). 

I was not always homemaker. When we first met our net income was much the same and I contributed to the mortgage and bills.  Last 4 years I have been homemaker due to children and practicalities. We would have been paying out too much for childcare and he traveled a lot for work so made sense that I became homemaker.


----------



## Dairylea (15 Jul 2020)

Also,  and maybe it’s irrelevant but the split was his choice, quite out the blue. Although it seems like a vengeful move from him we were not on bad terms.


----------



## DeeKie (15 Jul 2020)

That’s tough Dairylea. It sounds like you have enough going on without loosing the stability of your home. Mind yourself. Find a good solicitor to shield you a bit.


----------



## Ravima (15 Jul 2020)

If there is an asset and you are a co-habitee for the past 10 years, perhaps a private solicitor would take you on, in the expectation of getting funds from your ex, rather than waiting for legal aid?? It would probably mean a sale, but it might be a consideration???????


----------



## Dairylea (15 Jul 2020)

Thank you DeeKie. Thanks Ravima, as far as I understand the court would not order a sale of the house when it comes to a property adjustment order...I think...but could be wrong. I’m hoping to maintain the right to live in the property while the kids are young. They need the stability. The more I read the more concerned I am though.  Would legal aid solicitors be less capable than a private one? A Guard has said this is the case!


----------



## Northie (16 Jul 2020)

You're in a tough situation Dairylea but don't feel rushed into making any decisions. I don't have experience of using legal aid (didn't qualify) but I never heard any comment that they would be inferior to a private solicitor. I would warn you that going the private route is expensive, very expensive if you end up having to go the whole way to court. Its nerve wrecking having to wait for a legal aid appointment, I know even in my own situation the waiting nearly killed me, you just want it done!

Two bits of advice I'd give you:

1. all of this takes an incredible amount of time, in my case more then 3 years. So as much as possible relax, live your day to day life and as others have said remain civil (even if you want to tear your hair or his out) and don't commit to anything with him. 
2. Get a good support system, have the friend you can rant at but more importantly have a friend that is sensible and can see both sides - they'll be the one that keeps you grounded and reasonable when you have to deal with the ex. If you don't have someone like that consider a counselor/therapist. Best advice I was ever given was keep the emotional stuff away from your solicitor - they're there just for the legal stuff!

You will get through this.


----------



## Dairylea (16 Jul 2020)

Great advice Northie, thank you. Much appreciated!


----------



## Ravima (25 Jul 2020)

_Would legal aid solicitors be less capable than a private one? A Guard has said this is the case! _

I would think that both would be the same. I was suggesting 'going private', that you might get advice earlier. 

No need to post the answer to the next question. How much is house worth? If you have been the  homemaker for the past 10 years and the main carer of the children, you would probably be in line for 50% if house was sold. Would you be able to buy somewhere else for that 50%? You are correct in that the courts will not force a sale that will make you homeless, but if you are in a home worth say €1M, then a court could order the sale as you would be able to buy another house for  €500K. 

Good luck!


----------



## Dairylea (26 Jul 2020)

Thank you Ravima, you have put my mind more at ease. No, a sale of the house would not be enough to buy another house outright if it was split 50/50. But if all assets were counted then the house is worth less than 50% of all assets combined. I’ve no idea if other assets are even a feature with cohabitant redress though.


----------



## Yorky (26 Jul 2020)

Reading this post is a salutary reminder to not cohabit or, if you do, ensure your partner has at least equal wealth. Or just be single.


----------



## Thirsty (26 Jul 2020)

Actually its a reminder that if you have children you have a legal obligation to ensure you provide a home, food, clothing, education, and you can't simply push them out when you decide you've had enough.


----------



## Yorky (27 Jul 2020)

Thirsty said:


> Actually its a reminder that if you have children you have a legal obligation to ensure you provide a home, food, clothing, education, and you can't simply push them out when you decide you've had enough.


Correction to my post: not cohabit or have children unless there is equal wealth


----------



## Thirsty (27 Jul 2020)

Its still nothing to do with wealth.


----------



## Dairylea (29 Nov 2020)

We had equal wealth at the start of the relationship. Take home pay was similar. However once I became home maker his career went in a different direction and he had the freedom to do so. Majority of mortgage was cleared in recent years along with investments. Absolutely everything financially was in his name and he controlled my “allowance”. 
It has since transpired that he met someone else and this was the reason for the breakup. However that relationship has fallen apart since. I’m still under pressure to move out from him or get back together but I have a solicitor now. 
It’s a reminder to keep your financial independence and choose your partner very wisely.


----------



## Clamball (29 Nov 2020)

I am glad you have a solicitor, and are taking steps to secure your and the children’s future.  I hope it all works out.  Remember as you said he was able to become more successful in his career because you were homemaking so you contributed to that success.

If you do decide to resume your relationship you need to consider this may happen again, maybe when your children have all grown up, so get everything in joint names and protect yourself into your old age.   And since he has lied to you about that new relationship he probably lies about the extent of his assets too.


----------



## DeeKie (30 Nov 2020)

Good luck Dairylea.


----------



## Purple (30 Nov 2020)

Thirsty said:


> When a father wants to remove his children from the only home they have with no idea about where or how they are going to live, be reared or educated civility is clearly not within the relationship.





Dairylea said:


> Yes just to clarify, he wants me to find a landlord who accepts rent allowance and for me and children to move out so that he can move back into the 4 bed house (family home).


Can you clarify that please;
Are you saying that he doesn't want to see his children at all and wants to move them and you out of the family home?
Or does he want you to move out but share the parenting so that the children spend time in both households?

This is a difficult and stressful situation but relationships break down and while the needs of the children come first both parents have the right to provide a family home. If you end up sharing parenting then the larger family home might have to be sold so that two homes of relatively equal value can be provided.

Under no circumstances should you just move out as it's not his house anymore and hasn't been since you had a family together but equally it's not your house either. You'll both need to compromise and any victory will be at the expense of the welfare of your children. The why's and how's of your relationship breakdown are irrelevant and anger is a poison so don't let that consume you. Talk to your solicitor but more importantly listen to them.


----------



## Dairylea (30 Nov 2020)

Hi Purple, just to clarify regarding the parenting arrangements. He has shown no desire to share parenting as joint custody etc. I have been very much the main caregiver in the past and now. He’s sees them for 2.5 hours a week and calls once a week. 

There are two other housing options in his name which have room for the children. So three properties in total. The sale of the main family house would not be enough to buy two separate dwellings. And I think because there are already other options available to him then it is unnecessary.

The problem is that he views the home as very much his. He views the responsibility of housing the children more my responsibility than his. He feels that child maintenance is his only responsibility financially. 
I agree that anger is a poison. It’s hard not to be angry though when you see how easily someone can try to dispose of their family and put their own wants first. But without that anger I would not have the fight needed for these kids. I’m not a fighter. Everything has always been very much on his terms. But right now I need the anger and strength to stand up to him. Compromising would be good but unfortunately it seems that we are on completely different pages.


----------



## Dairylea (30 Nov 2020)

DeeKie said:


> Good luck Dairylea.


Thank you DeeKie. I will update this thread with the outcome.


----------



## Purple (30 Nov 2020)

Dairylea said:


> Hi Purple, just to clarify regarding the parenting arrangements. He has shown no desire to share parenting as joint custody etc. I have been very much the main caregiver in the past and now. He’s sees them for 2.5 hours a week and calls once a week.


 Wow, that's crazy. Fathers are usually fighting to get access to their kids. 



Dairylea said:


> There are two other housing options in his name which have room for the children. So three properties in total. The sale of the main family house would not be enough to buy two separate dwellings. And I think because there are already other options available to him then it is unnecessary.
> 
> The problem is that he views the home as very much his. He views the responsibility of housing the children more my responsibility than his. He feels that child maintenance is his only responsibility financially.
> I agree that anger is a poison. It’s hard not to be angry though when you see how easily someone can try to dispose of their family and put their own wants first. But without that anger I would not have the fight needed for these kids. I’m not a fighter. Everything has always been very much on his terms. But right now I need the anger and strength to stand up to him. Compromising would be good but unfortunately it seems that we are on completely different pages.


How long have you been together and what age are the kids?
It is reasonable to take the position that everything he earned since you moved in together is half yours. He has an equal right to access to the children and you have an equal right to access to the money. The fact that it is all in his name just makes that messy but it doesn't really weaken your position. I take it from your posts that you are not married. If you were it would be very simple; everything would be half yours automatically.  Without being married you have to go to court to establish that.
As things stand his request that you move out is laughable.


----------



## Dairylea (30 Nov 2020)

We were together nearly 10 years and the youngest is 5yrs old. No we weren’t married. In hindsight I believe that was a very deliberate choice by him to avoid what we actually face now.  He controlled the finances and made sure absolutely everything was in his name. Even now he tells me this is his house, who can enter the house amongst other things. After 6 months of breathing space I can now see that it was actually an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship.


----------



## ReesesPieces (30 Nov 2020)

I'm very curious about what legal advice you are receiving. My understanding was that the cohabitation rules could provide some redress but wouldn't approach anything like what you would receive if married, certainly nothing like getting a property. I have spent years advising people who claim its just a piece of paper of the need to get married when starting a family as you never know what will happen and I've seen it go wrong many times - its very easy to start in a position where everyone is equal, has great careers, etc then it just takes one child being sick, one job not being flexible about childcare, then suddenly someone is staying at home and it becomes very unequal with no protection. 

I was glad to hear the cohabitation law was offering some protection but it sounded minimal whereas what you're hoping for sounds much more comprehensive. Has your solicitor had success with this before? I tried to read around it a few years ago and didn't see any reports on what the typical outcomes were. 

Generally, I think people need to think seriously about sharing assets when starting a family, and this country needs to get more serious about tracking down fathers who avoid child support payments. When you have a child you're primarily making a commitment to the child, but if there's a family decision that one parent should step back to care for that child then morally if not legally that is a decision that will affect the provision that parent needs in the future. These are things that should be discussed more widely.


----------



## Dairylea (30 Nov 2020)

At the moment I have no idea where this will go. Solicitor has advised that the cohabitation law brings me into the same jurisdiction as a married person but I know there are limitations and it’s not exactly the same or treated the same. Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide if we can’t come to an agreement beforehand. I wouldn’t imagine a judge would rule us to leave the house but at the moment that’s what I am facing so I’m hoping for the right to remain until youngest is older. I think my expectations ok. I hope so.


----------



## Purple (30 Nov 2020)

ReesesPieces said:


> I'm very curious about what legal advice you are receiving. My understanding was that the cohabitation rules could provide some redress but wouldn't approach anything like what you would receive if married, certainly nothing like getting a property. I have spent years advising people who claim its just a piece of paper of the need to get married when starting a family as you never know what will happen and I've seen it go wrong many times - its very easy to start in a position where everyone is equal, has great careers, etc then it just takes one child being sick, one job not being flexible about childcare, then suddenly someone is staying at home and it becomes very unequal with no protection.
> 
> I was glad to hear the cohabitation law was offering some protection but it sounded minimal whereas what you're hoping for sounds much more comprehensive. Has your solicitor had success with this before? I tried to read around it a few years ago and didn't see any reports on what the typical outcomes were.


The fact that there are kids makes a major difference. More information here. There are good solicitors on this site who can give specific advice. Under the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act of 2010 Dairylea fulfills the criteria required for protection but yes, couples should get married if they really want to be protected. Unmarried fathers are far more vulnerable in that regard although the Marriage Equality referendum did, for the first time, give fathers automatic rights to their own children.



ReesesPieces said:


> Generally, I think people need to think seriously about sharing assets when starting a family, and this country needs to get more serious about tracking down fathers who avoid child support payments. When you have a child you're primarily making a commitment to the child, but if there's a family decision that one parent should step back to care for that child then morally if not legally that is a decision that will affect the provision that parent needs in the future. These are things that should be discussed more widely.


 Absolutely but at the same time, and without wishing to drag this off topic, this country needs to get more serious about ensuring mothers follow court orders around access for fathers. People get nasty when relationships break down and both parties use whatever weapons they have to hurt the other party. In the case of men it is more likely to be finances. In the case of women it is more likely to be access to children.

Either way it's usually the children who get the scars and, as with any relationship, the person who cares the least has most of the power.


----------



## Purple (30 Nov 2020)

Dairylea said:


> At the moment I have no idea where this will go. Solicitor has advised that the cohabitation law brings me into the same jurisdiction as a married person but I know there are limitations and it’s not exactly the same or treated the same. Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide if we can’t come to an agreement beforehand. I wouldn’t imagine a judge would rule us to leave the house but at the moment that’s what I am facing so I’m hoping for the right to remain until youngest is older. I think my expectations ok. I hope so.


I think you are being overly pessimistic. I can't see a judge not making a Property Adjustment Order but I'm not a solicitor. Read this.


----------



## Dairylea (30 Nov 2020)

Purple said:


> I think you are being overly pessimistic. I can't see a judge not making a Property Adjustment Order but I'm not a solicitor. Read


Thanks Purple. I hope you are right. The problem is there isn’t much to read on the outcomes of these kind of cases. Maybe most of them get sorted out before they reach court.


----------



## Purple (3 Dec 2020)

Dairylea said:


> Thanks Purple. I hope you are right. The problem is there isn’t much to read on the outcomes of these kind of cases. Maybe most of them get sorted out before they reach court.


Most family law cases are held "In Camera", that is in the Judge's Chambers and so are not accessible to the public. That's why you can't find them.


----------



## MOB (3 Dec 2020)

I'm not going to give detailed specifics because it is too difficult to do so without being at a desk and taking a full history.  But there are some time limits for qualified cohabitants to seek relief.  Make sure you don't fall foul of them.


----------



## Dairylea (6 Dec 2020)

MOB said:


> I'm not going to give detailed specifics because it is too difficult to do so without being at a desk and taking a full history.  But there are some time limits for qualified cohabitants to seek relief.  Make sure you don't fall foul of them.


Thank you MOB
As far as I understand the time limit is 2 years. Not a long time but I’m within in. 
He has now offered to buy a further property that I could live in with the children as his tenant and apply for HAP. Meaning he has another property with HAP payments covering any mortgage he has to pay on it.  We really are on completely different pages.  
I have my draft proceedings and affidavit now from the Solicitor.


----------



## Clamball (6 Dec 2020)

Given that you are uncovering more and more of his assets decide what you want that is best for you and the kids.   Do you want to remain in your current home?  Do you want to live in a particular area?  Do you want your kids to have a home with their Dad that is suitable for them to stay at. 

Then be clear to your solicitor what you want.  I want to own a house in this area with this no of bedrooms and the reasons why and what you want your partner to commit to, living in the same area etc, sharing parenting or whatever.   Hopefully he won’t have horrendous debts and that you do end up with a house that is your own.  I would not consider becoming a HAP tenant of his.  At all, he must have some assets to put deposits down on these houses so why would he think that his children would be approved for HAP.  It seems to me he thinks he has no responsibilities towards his own children.


----------



## Dairylea (6 Dec 2020)

Yes I want to remain in the home with the children. Their schools and friends are close and it’s their home. This year has been so difficult for them with the relationship breakdown and lockdown. It would also mean I could get back to work and afford childcare instead of my wage being eaten up by rent. It’s stability and security for us to. I could possibly save towards getting a mortgage of my own down the line. 

I don’t think it’s fair to suggest us moving out to be on HAPs if he is in a position to buy another property. Having him as a landlord also doesn’t sit well.  The outlook for us would be bleak. But he would again be looking after himself and his own pocket.


----------



## Feemar5 (6 Dec 2020)

Stay where you are - if he had any consideration for his children he would not put them thru this kind of hassle.   Why should HAP take over his responsibility and if your circumstances should change in the future ( like taking up employment) you may not be entitled to HAP.


----------



## Saavy99 (6 Dec 2020)

This man must be the biggest twat ever. Expecting the State to use tax payers funds to house  HIS children, leaving him free to built up a property portifilio. Is this for real


----------



## Dairylea (6 Dec 2020)

Saavy99 said:


> This man must be the biggest twat ever. Expecting the State to use tax payers funds to house  HIS children, leaving him free to built up a property portifilio. Is this for real


When you put it like that! Yes you have hit the nail on the head.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (6 Dec 2020)

The least he could do is to sign the house you're in over to you.


----------



## susieq (26 Jan 2021)

Having gone through this process myself now for nearly 2 years I can definitely tell you do not leave your family home. the court will protect you and your children. You are entitled to be provided for both financially and with a roof over your head. The court will not remove you & children from family home. , I am coming to the end of case progression. Be careful who represents you, as many of them have no experience in Cohabitation Cases.


----------



## Dairylea (9 Feb 2021)

Thank you susieq. It’s good to hear from someone who has been through this. Unfortunately I don’t have much choice on solicitors because I have had to do this through legal aid. Can I ask if you were able to negotiate between solicitors or did it have to be sorted through the court? It’s so daunting.


----------



## Up Rovers (23 Sep 2022)

@Dairylea 
Just wondering how you are doing and if things have been sorted for you.  Hope you and the children are doing ok despite all that you have gone through


----------



## Dairylea (14 Oct 2022)

Up Rovers said:


> @Dairylea
> Just wondering how you are doing and if things have been sorted for you.  Hope you and the children are doing ok despite all that you have gone through


Hi Up Rovers, thank you. 
I’m still awaiting the court date unfortunately! There is no sign of possible mediation or compromise. Just that he wants me to move out. He moved back into the family home so we are all under the same roof at the moment. It’s not pleasant.
We had a Child Maintenance hearing which went well though.


----------



## Up Rovers (16 Oct 2022)

Dairylea said:


> Just that he wants me to move out. He moved back into the family home so we are all under the same roof at the moment. It’s not pleasant.



Hi Dairylea,

Very sorry to hear this, can't be good for any of you.  Hang tight and whatever you do don't move out   Hope you get things sorted for yourself and the children.


----------

