# Loss/injury to uninsured driver



## hema1 (28 Dec 2007)

Guys:
A shy friend of mine asked me to post this before going to throw away money to solicitor. His wife is  driving car technically with out insurance. Technically i say because  it was a genuine mistake they have 2 cars but they possess comprehensive insurance on only one for both, since the fine print says eligible to drive other cars they drive 2 cars and they are doing this for last 1 year and motor tax department also giving them tax discs based on single insurance policy they quote-so they are never aware that they are breaking law. They hold full irish driving licenses, it only came to light when his wife is involved in an incident and when they contacted insurance company and company said that wife is insured on another car but not insured on the car that was involved in accident. also,more or less Garda accepted that as genuine mistake and incident is very very small and there is no "victim "identified- please read on.

My question is about incident rather than insurance mistake- Freinds wife is actually waiting at traffic signal and the thirdparty came and hit from behind, friend's in-laws and baby were in back seat- it is a  jolt just enough to  cause neck pain to old parents, very tiny mark on back bumper, there was a racial abuse from the thirdparty on friends wife- Garda came and all usual story of things happened-now, third party had sent a notice that she suffered loss and damage because friend's wife actually reversed car multiple time at traffic lights(is it possible?) - now friends wife donot ahve insurance- Motor insurance bureau sent a letter to freinds wife saying that she is un insured and she caused loss.

my question is : if an unisured driver suffers loss or injury by thirdparty where should they go? My friends told me it is not worth going to solicitor 
it might be the case since third party racially abused and friends wife made a formal complaint to garda , thrid party is just putting pressure so that that complaint can be with drawn-- should we go to solicitor alongw ith pictures of their car damage , third party's car damage and medical bills ( incurred  more on dealing with stress caused by all four letter words used during racial abuse heaped) should they up the ante on thirdparty- is there a body where one can complain on fraud insurance claims showing the proof? This is because THIRD PARTY's car is never damaged due to this as she was in rear.

The medical bills are small on neck pains but more on stress counselling- and the stress caused like the way facts are subverted like reversing at traffic lights. i know the guy my self , stock market investor made a small fortune in commodities-his wife made a mistake of giving his visiting card while exchanging insurance details, so dont know if third party lady is chancing  her arm if  she can make some nice money on this rich guy by putting pressure-  Friend and his wife are asking if thirdparty can apologise for her racial abuse behaviour they will be big enough to withdraw complaint  on racial abuse.- 

to repeat my questions: 
if an unisured driver suffers loss or injury by thirdparty where should they go? how can this be settled with out going to solicitors as that would involve more loss of time and money?
how can we complain on fraud claims?
will motor insurance bureau act independently or do they have prejudice against so called un insured drivers?




Thanks for your patience and help


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## RainyDay (29 Dec 2007)

I do think you are underplaying the seriousness of this issue, with your 'technically' and 'so-called'. If they were able to read the small print to see that they are covered to drive other cars, they were able to read the clauses that say 'other cars that you don't own' or 'other cars with their own insurance policy' or similar.

Have the Gardai mentioned the possibility of prosecuting her for driving without insurance?




hema1 said:


> Guys:
> His wife is  driving car technically with out insurance. Technically i say because  it was a genuine mistake they have 2 cars but they possess comprehensive insurance on only one for both, since the fine print says eligible to drive other cars they drive 2 cars and they are doing this for last 1 year and motor tax department also giving them tax discs based on single insurance policy they quote-so they are never aware that they are breaking law. They hold full irish driving licenses, it only came to light when his wife is involved in an incident and when they contacted insurance company and company said that wife is insured on another car but not insured on the car that was involved in accident. also,more or less Garda accepted that as genuine mistake and incident is very very small and there is no "victim "identified- please read on.



Just to clarify, you say that they have 'comprehensive insurance on only one'
Did they have any insurance on the 2nd car (e.g. third party)?




hema1 said:


> if an uninsured driver suffers loss or injury by thirdparty where should they go? how can this be settled with out going to solicitors as that would involve more loss of time and money?


He could try and deal directly with the third-party himself, but this may well be difficult and problematic.


hema1 said:


> how can we complain on fraud claims?


To the [broken link removed]


hema1 said:


> will motor insurance bureau act independently or do they have prejudice against so called uninsured drivers?


Can you clarify what you mean here?


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## ACA (29 Dec 2007)

Third party insurance should be dealing with the whole issue. Although your friends wife shouldn't have been on the road in the 1st place, she wasn't (from your description) the person who caused the accident.


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## Billo (29 Dec 2007)

Rainyday has it right. 
Driving without insurance is a very serious issue,and I do not believe the OP when he/she says, it was a genuine mistake....technically....possess comprehensive insurance on only one for both etc.
IMHO They were prepared to carry on with this scam until they were caught, and the sooner it is stamped out the better. They were breaking the law(driving without insurance), and they should pay the price for this.


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## hema1 (29 Dec 2007)

thanks for all replies. confirmed. Garda are not going to prosecute as they are satisfied with explanation, for some body, it sounds very funny but they accepted the fact it is genuine mistake - that motor tax office issued motor tax disc to that car by taking the copies of insurance policy ( policy which states driver can drive other cars only under permission of owner etc) - also, the uninsured driver is hit from behind and very minor incident to consume time of garda. This is typical of a L driver on motorway where garda knows that they should not be but choose to ignore them.

all views expressed here are genuine and relevant,  thanks for all inputs, IIF fraud line is good tip.it is a serious offence to be on road without insurance- how will an individual know that he possess correct insurance especially when motor tax department issued tax disc. i am not sympathetic but if this is a scam, motor tax department, gardai should work collectively to reject the motor tax application in first place. then the person wont go on road with the car having correct motor tax disc, correct nct cert ifcate but wrong insurance policy - that is the debate for another day.

when i ask will motor insurance bureau act independently?, what i mean here i have gone through the website and they dont have any sentence like " we represent  un insured drivers, we will investiage if claims against uninsured drivers are genuine or not, if uninsured drivers are not found guility on investiagation of circumstances, they will be protected against the claims etc".

I echo the hidden sentiment expressed in one of the reply above and similar posts here- cost of insurance in this country is high due to "claims culture" prevalent and of course un insured drivers causing accidents- but in this case latter part dont apply.
thanks again for sharing information.


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## Ravima (29 Dec 2007)

Gardai must investigate and I do not think that they will accept that it was a genuine mistake for you not to be insured. 

If other person claims that you reversed, and is successful in the claim, then you will be at fault. MIBI will have to pay out and wil seek recovery of full outlay from owner/driver of the offending car.

I would be very surprised if Gardai did not prosecute and indeed if I was the other motorist, I would be as well.

If you are the innocent person and if the other driver hit you from behind, then the other drivers insurance must deal with the claim.

The MIBI will not represent you in your claim against the other driver. You seem to want to know if there is an orgainsation who will represent you, the uninsured driver, fight your claim and defend your rights. There is not. Basically, that is why the rest of us have insurance. 

You are on your own in mking the claim. You can engage a solicitor, but you will have to pay his/her costs in the event that you are not successful, as well as paying the costs of the other motorist.

Why not simply phone or call to other motorist, apologise and see if that is the end of it. It is Chistmas time and perhaps a more rational charitable view can be taken by both drivers.


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2007)

Where is the 'Loss/injury'? - the OP says the car has a very minor mark and parents have 'neck pain'.

Couple of questions:

1. Did the parents go to a doctor?
2. Does the car have a valid in-date insurance certificate?
3. Were the Gardai called when the incident happened?

The talk of stress councelling and racial abuse etc. is rubbish and my take is that this is all a smokescreen to dilute the impact of not having insurance.

I am also concerned that the Gardai have decided not to prosecute - I find it ridiculous that someone can plead ignorance on being uninsured.

This basically comes down to your word against someone elses - one claiming racial abuse, one claiming the other was reversing...


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2007)

I read in the SBP that non Irish drivers represent 8% of road users but account for 30% - 40% of road traffic offences. Cases like this where non Irish road users plead ignorance or use loop holes (e.g. for penaulty points) need to be stamped out.


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## hema1 (11 Jan 2008)

Thanks - again all of you, an approach to apologise is already done last month itself and that was 'spin' as accepting liability and a letter was sent like "as per telephone conversation you apologised which indicates you accepted liability".....

i wish to close this thread as i got all information and also the rational is getting diluted , the debate who is irish road user and who is non-irish road user is not relevant, we all know answers and background.

A senior investment banker in a Major irish Financial institution is struggling in his company on absenteeism by his stock market analysts, and they are all absent complaining stress and company is spending thousands in counselling them ,some of them resigned as well, i told him the same all these complaints on stress are rubbish as irish stock market bombed , these analyts made a mistake of sub prime covered securities and stupid banks that lent money for 100% mortgages,  they are looking for a smoke screen to cover up their mistakes of burning holes of pension funds,  and falsely complaining on stress to avoid from prosecution. The investment banker replied me " Just ShutUp, it doesnot reflect well on your wisdom to comment on individuals / generalise individuals whom you dont know". 

Have fun !

Please close the thread !


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## Ravima (11 Jan 2008)

in simple english, as I am a bit simple, can you translate paragraph 3 of your post please?


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## Marie (12 Jan 2008)

hema1 said:


> Thanks - again all of you, an approach to apologise is already done last month itself and that was 'spin' as accepting liability and a letter was sent like "as per telephone conversation you apologised which indicates you accepted liability".....
> 
> i wish to close this thread as i got all information and also the rational is getting diluted , the debate who is irish road user and who is non-irish road user is not relevant, we all know answers and background.
> 
> ...


 
Hold on a minute!  You asked about the situation of a driver who is not insured to drive that vehicle and is then involved in a collision (however small!) with another vehicle here is some information you may find interesting:-

_*Driving without insurance is generally punishable by a fine of up to €2,500, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year. Where the court decides not to impose a disqualification, drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insruance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.
*_
Who said what to whom or the occupations of the people involved do not come into it.

I feel too disturbed by this to even go into the repercussions if the driver who rear-ended you had been seriously injured...............


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## aircobra19 (12 Jan 2008)

I've no idea what that 3rd paragraph from hema1 is about either. Unless they fail to realise once you post something on the web its out of your control and will run its course even if you don't want it to. 

The main issue is. You need an independent witness (outside of both cars and that is accepted by the insurance companies) to say that the thrid party is at fault. otherwise neither story can be proved and the insurance company likely IMO to split the costs between both cars 50/50. I don't know if being hit from the rear carries much weight legally, as people often claim it has. If its 50/50So the passengers in the first car will most likely have to claim of the driver in the first car. Which they can't because that driver is non insured.


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## mercman (17 Jan 2008)

This was one of the maddest Posts I have ever seen. The problem was posted. Many offered opinion. And because the original OP did not get the answers they wanted to hear, they decided to end the thread. This is nearly as good as the BEANO


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## polly2000 (17 Jan 2008)

Yes it must be the maddest question ever, uninsured driver wants to claim compensation from the driver behind who in turn claimed the uninsured driver reversed multiple times into them!! The mind boggles! 

But it seems the reversing multiple times and racial abuse is  a scam currently going in in Dublin as highlighted on Gerry Ryans morning show yesterday. 
P


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## aircobra19 (17 Jan 2008)

polly2000 said:


> Y...highlighted on Gerry Ryans morning show yesterday....



Any more info on that? Is there a podcast?

Edit...[broken link removed]


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## polly2000 (17 Jan 2008)

After listening again there was no reversing but none the less there are shades of the the orignal posters story. It's about 2.13 on the slider if you want to hear the clip.
P


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