# No formal contract of employment - just an email



## MUM2KIDS (3 Aug 2006)

I have been working  via an agency for the past 2 years.  Last year I was offered a 5-year contract with another company and had planned to accept this.  However my boss asked me to stay and offered  a 3-year contract with similar money.  I accepted. However no contracts were ever issued, I kept chasing this up with my boss she maintained that there was a tendering processed to be set up etc but that the current arrangement with the agency would continue in the interim.  I have an email stating this from her.  I am due to meet my boss next week on the future of my role and want to be forearmed in advance of this.  Does the email from my boss "confirming" 3-year contract have any legal bearing?  Can I be let go with a weeks notice or can it be treated as unfair dismissal.  Any suggsetions what to do or say.


----------



## RainyDay (3 Aug 2006)

Seems strange - Was it clear (either in your discussion or the 'offer' email) that she was offering you a direct position bypassing your current agency? If your agency is professional, they may well have terms in their contract with your employer with forbid this? Do they take on other people directly in this way? Also, if she is going through some tendering process when she has already decided the outcome from this process, this is pretty poor practice on her part. Without breaching any confidentiality, what kind of organisation is this? Big/small? Multi-national or local? Does she have the authority to make job offers?


----------



## MUM2KIDS (4 Aug 2006)

The agency were aware of this and were facilitaing the arrangement until I was to employed directly by the company.  Without going into detail it is a large Irish company.  I am due to meet with my boss today .. very anxious!


----------



## Danmo (4 Aug 2006)

You don't say how long you are working there - are you still there on a "temp" basis? How long is it since this email? Is there any evidence that they have taken steps to formalise your position? Of course they can hire you but would be liable for fee to agency. Once they are not trying to circumvent this there should be no issue with agency. If I were you I would like to see a little more commitment from the firm in question - are they stringing you along or do you have faith that they will deliver?


----------



## MUM2KIDS (4 Aug 2006)

I have been there 2 years, 1 year temporary and 1 year under my assumed contract. I have just seen an email from the agency to my boss saying that they have sewn the seeds of doubt and that I wasn't happy but the tone of it was all in favour of the employer.  They have a number of contractors in here.  I know I am to let go but want to fight this. I gave up a 5-year contract for this.  I have just turned 40 and don't think I can go through the recruitment process again.

I have the email thats all, I do know my boss had to speak to his direct manager and HR to approve the inital offer


----------



## RainyDay (4 Aug 2006)

I'm a bit confused now. Was your new contract with the company going to involve the agency? What exactly do you (or they) mean by 'sewn the seeds of doubt' - doubts about what?


----------



## MUM2KIDS (4 Aug 2006)

Just been given 5 weeks notice... reason being that the company is under pressure to reduce the level of contractors.  When I raised the point of the 3 year contract she said circumstances change with time.  I am not going to go without a fight,  2 other people on contract are being kept on and I don't beleive they were ever told that they had long term contracts.  When I mentioned the email CONFIRMING our agreement she went on the back foot and asked for a copy of the mail.  The agency have been involved along and have know about the postion and the new contract was not supposed to involve the agency.  I reminded her that at the time of offer she came back and said that she had spoken to both HR and Her superior ( head of dept) and got agreement to up the offer from a 2 year term to 3 years but that they couldn't offer 5.  Sorry for the rant but as you can imagne I am upset.  I like this job, and I do my job well.  There was no mention of any performance issues.  Can I be given notice or should there be some formal procedures... do i have any right to fight this with them.  I know in the end they will get me out but can I seek some compensation. Any suggestions would be welcome....


----------



## RainyDay (4 Aug 2006)

What does your current contract say about their rights to terminate?


----------



## Billo (5 Aug 2006)

MUM2KIDS
Reading between the lines here but if I was you you I would be prepared fot the worst, and be prepared as best you can to leave. 
It seems to me that for some reason (unknown to me,perhaps you know yourself)that the company wants to get rid of you while holding on to other contractors.
At 40'ish there should still be good opportunities out there. Stay positive and good luck.

Rgds
Billo


----------



## MsGinger (7 Aug 2006)

A contract of employment does not have to be in writing, a contract of employment can be verbal.  What needs to be in writing is the statement of terms of employment and it is up to the employer to provide this within two months of the commencement of employment.  If they have not provided you with a written statement of terms of employment they are in the wrong, you can take them to the labour court on this alone.  The labour court will always look more favourably on the employee if the employer has not kept their records up to date.


----------



## bankrupt (7 Aug 2006)

MsGinger said:
			
		

> A contract of employment does not have to be in writing, a contract of employment can be verbal. What needs to be in writing is the statement of terms of employment and it is up to the employer to provide this within two months of the commencement of employment. If they have not provided you with a written statement of terms of employment they are in the wrong, you can take them to the labour court on this alone. The labour court will always look more favourably on the employee if the employer has not kept their records up to date.


 
It sounds to me as if you have quite a strong case for (if nothing else) compensation.  Perhaps consult a solicitor at this stage?


----------



## finbarr (7 Aug 2006)

Please please get some advice from your union or a union on this issue or go to the labour court yourself for advice www.labourcourt.ie The previous replier is correct that the contract of employment does not have to be written. I believe that you have a strong case but employment law is very difficult and each case is different. If you really believe that you have been mistreated then I would def take to labour court its important to stand up for your beliefs whether you win or loose is not as important as you standing up for yourself



Regards Finbarr


----------



## Art (8 Aug 2006)

If you took a case to the Labour Relations Commission for the company's failure to issue you with a contract of employment, you would be awarded 4 weeks wages. This is black and white.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (8 Aug 2006)

[FONT=&quot]1) It seems to me that you have a fixed term contract for 3 years with 2 years to go. If they want to terminate that contract, they would probably be contractually obliged to give you two years' salary.  That is why I advise people strongly against giving fixed term contracts. They are strongly biased towards the employee. 
[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
Obviously, you need a formal legal opinion on this. But put this case to your employer in the first instance rather than incurring legal fees. 
[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
2) At worst, if you don't have a contract, you have the full protection of the Unfair Dismissals Act. The fact that you are an agency employee is irrelevant.Section 13 of the Unfair Dismissals Act 1993, states “*the party hiring the individual from the employment agency is deemed to be the employer*_”.  _After one year’s employment, the employee has the full protection of this Act. 
[/FONT]

So you have the same rights as any other employee. 


They must justify their reason for dismissing you. 


If they make you redundant, they must show that the basis for selecting you redundancy was fair. If there is any issue of age discrimination, you would win your case hands down. 


Brendan



[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


----------



## MUM2KIDS (8 Aug 2006)

Thanks everyone for your replies, they have been a great source of support.  Bilbo I don't know why they have given notice of the end of my contract other than what I have been told is that there isn't enough work to go around and that the area could be filled by full time individuals.  I would and am arguing that this should not impact on me as I am a full time employee fo at least for the next 2 years.  The reason I sensed it was because of the change in the atmosphere, even as we speak my boss has taken most of the team in to a meeting but left me behing.  I have spoken to her this morning and she understands that I am diappointed and angry but states that times change as do circumstances.  The agency have agreed with my understanding of the position to a certain extent in the sense they agree with the facts but have said there is always a risk that this may happen.  Excuse me but no one ever told me there was a risk of a fixed term contract being early terminated because the work not there!.

I have told my boss that I have a contract and also used Brendan note below that she and the company are deemed to be my employer.  She has said that maybe I can stay a bit longer until til I get something else, however this is not the case.  There will have to be some negotiations on this, I will be fighting this for my own sanity and respect.

 I have rang the teh Empoyments rights Unit and there first view is that there is a breach of contract.  I am meeting with them tomorrow to discuss in more detail.

Keep u informed M2K


----------



## Seagull (8 Aug 2006)

From the way you phrased your initial post, it sounds as though your boss was aware that you had the offer of the 5 year contract, and specifically asked you to stay. I would imagine you have a case for compensation in that you gave up the 5 year contract in anticipation of a contract from your current employer.


----------



## Purple (8 Aug 2006)

Hi M2k, 
It looks like you are in a very strong position so don't panic. 
There is no harm starting to look around now as no matter what happens you will probably have to find a new job. Don't tell them that and don't let any "that's the way it is" talk put you off. It they want you gone it looks like they will have to buy out your contract.


----------



## finbarr (8 Aug 2006)

Mum2kids

Dont let these people knock your confidence in the future, they appear to be acting illegally from what the other posters have been saying. 

Stick to your guns and keep us informed 

Best of Luck Tomorrow!

Finbarr


----------



## MUM2KIDS (14 Aug 2006)

Hi Just an update on where things stand, I spoke with the dept of employment rights, and was told at a minimum I was probably due 5 weeks redundancy if I was there 2 years (just a week short of that), but that they had a "sneaky suspicion" that if I took this further I would get more.  Again the advise was to get seek a good solicitor. Does anyone know a good solicitor who deals with employment and contract law?  My own solicitor only  deals with property

Things have gone quite in work i.e. my boss hasn't mentioned anything since.  I am to meet with the agency this week so will see then,  I intend to work out the notice as given by me employer but look for compensation.


----------



## mmclo (14 Aug 2006)

MUM2KIDS said:


> Hi Just an update on where things stand, I spoke with the dept of employment rights, and was told at a minimum I was probably due 5 weeks redundancy if I was there 2 years (just a week short of that), but that they had a "sneaky suspicion" that if I took this further I would get more. Again the advise was to get seek a good solicitor. Does anyone know a good solicitor who deals with employment and contract law? My own solicitor only deals with property
> 
> Things have gone quite in work i.e. my boss hasn't mentioned anything since. I am to meet with the agency this week so will see then, I intend to work out the notice as given by me employer but look for compensation.


 
Once you mention you have sought advice, are considering legal action, redundancy, fixed term contract etc. etc. thisngs will change. It is still amazing how many employers don't have a basic grasp of employment law.

From your circumstances redundancy may not be the best option fianancially...breach of contract or unfair dismissal or most lightly some form of no fault settlement seems possible and more rewarding


----------



## MUM2KIDS (6 Sep 2006)

Its been a few weeks since I last posted and there has been development.  I met with my solictor last week who also had the view that there was a contract between myself and my employer and by giving notice of termination that there was a breach.  He rightly pointed out if they had given me a detailed contract in the first place which normally includes a clause on termiantions that they could legally have terminated my employment.  Anyway I spoke to my boss and her immediate senior on Monday updating on the legal advice that I had and that I was going to pursue this.. surprise surprise the following morning they offered me another role within the department to cover out the remaining 2 years of my contract.  I have to say I am quite pleased with this, it an area I would like to get involved in and I do like the people here.  Nothing is guarnteed until I see the new contract, which they say they are drawing up.  Just proves stand you for your rights


----------



## Purple (6 Sep 2006)

Well done, I hope it works out for you.


----------



## shipibo (7 Sep 2006)

Happy Days, nice to see some people fighting for their rights, if no one fights for them , they will go away.


----------

