# Tenant chopped down exotic tree!



## MissThing (25 Nov 2008)

I have rented an older property to retired tenants recently. This property located in the country, is surrounded by a huge lawn and mature hedges and tress - lovely and private.  The tenants have cut down a very exotic mature tree which would have been about 25+ years old.  I'm absolutely livid!!!!  I would have no problem with them trimming hedges, making flower beds, planting etc. they indicated that they were green fingered when they came to view.  

To my mind this is damage and as they had no permission, does this negate their damage deposit?  

I've had an apologetic letter but I'm too fuming to respond.  What are my options?

MT


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

Could it not be put down to an innocent mistake and tell them that any future changes have to be run by you. If it wasn't malicious I would look at it as very unfortunate but money won't bring it back and will only sour your relationship and more then likely lose you tenants.


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## mercman (25 Nov 2008)

Weigh up the chances of replacing the tenants at the same rental level ?? I know, I know that it was your tree which they cut down etc.etc. Would you be as livid if the wind blew it down or they accidentally drove into it and somebody was hurt. Tenants in cities are hard enough to find at present. In a rural area they are like hen's teeth. Are you in the property rental business or the tree mindng business ??


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## mathepac (25 Nov 2008)

MrMan said:


> Could it not be put down to an innocent mistake ...



As in "Oh sorry, I didn't realize that taking a chain-saw to the tree would do that amount of damage" 

I think the tenants need to pay to have the tree replaced, as painlessly as possible, maybe by adding an extra few quid to the weekly rent.

I'd be fuming.


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## MissThing (25 Nov 2008)

They chopped down the tree to make room for their camper van, so it was deliberate and hardly annual pruning. This happened last week and the reason I found out was becasue they'd e-mailed me a photo of the 'tidying' they'd done and asked me to pay for some gravel to be laid down so its not mucky as they alight their camper.  I can't bring myself to respond, (afriad of using CAPS LOCK N ALL!) I'm still fuming.  

That wasn't the only chopping they did either they also murdered some pampas grass but the roots are still intact so in time will grow back.  

I'm just ripping!


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## z105 (25 Nov 2008)

What does your lease say about attending the garden?


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## mercman (25 Nov 2008)

Well then rip away but you'll be crying when the property is empty for an age. Deduct it from the deposit -- very simple and effective and the last laugh will be with you.


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

mathepac said:


> As in "Oh sorry, I didn't realize that taking a chain-saw to the tree would do that amount of damage"
> 
> I think the tenants need to pay to have the tree replaced, as painlessly as possible, maybe by adding an extra few quid to the weekly rent.
> 
> I'd be fuming.



They mentioned they were green fingered, they were renting a rural dwelling, they may have thought that it was acceptable to cut a tree down and they may have mistaken the type of tree that it was, hence the innocent mistake - its not beyond the realms of possibility.

If you are renting a rural dwelling to a retired couple they may be looking at it very long term therefore I would not go adding to the cost of rent to replace a tree. If the OP is angry to the point of not being able to deal with them then maybe hand them their notice, still be down your tree and go look for new tenants. As hard as it is now to detach yourself from the emotions of what they have done it is necessary in order to properly run a business.


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## MissThing (25 Nov 2008)

Havealaugh said:


> What does your lease say about attending the garden?


 
"The lawn/garden to be maintained in good order - lawnmower provided."


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## sam h (25 Nov 2008)

Did you make it clear what they could and couldn't do when they moved in? Did you determine who would be responsible for the gardening?

If you were happy enough to take them at their word when they said they were green fingered, then there is not much you can probably do.

I certainly would agree afterwards to pay someone for work they decided to undertake off their own bat.

I once made the mistake to let a tenant wallpaper a small bathroom - the result was horrible & took me a full day to take down the paper that was superglued to the wall. I'm very clear about what tenants can & can't do since.....but even still you get the odd things done - someone else painted an outside wall with gloss paint, which will now have to be maintained.


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## MissThing (25 Nov 2008)

MrMan said:


> They mentioned they were green fingered, they were renting a rural dwelling, they may have thought that it was acceptable to cut a tree down and they may have mistaken the type of tree that it was, hence the innocent mistake - its not beyond the realms of possibility.
> 
> If you are renting a rural dwelling to a retired couple they may be looking at it very long term therefore I would not go adding to the cost of rent to replace a tree. If the OP is angry to the point of not being able to deal with them then maybe hand them their notice, still be down your tree and go look for new tenants. As hard as it is now to detach yourself from the emotions of what they have done it is necessary in order to properly run a business.


 

I'm not going to terminate their tenancy or anything like that - I honestly though I'd be over it by now and yes I'm hoping that they're going to rent the place for a long long time.  The property location and amenity has ticked a lot of their boxes regards a home and for me a green fingered retired couple was a perfect fit for me.  I thought their actions careless and thoughtless  - yes its a only a tree albeit a very gorgeous one.  Anyway, I just wanted to let off some steam I suppose, thanks everyone for your replies.


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## tmccar (25 Nov 2008)

Hi Missthing
   I appreciate that you must have been annoyed about the tree, but I think you should forgive them and carry on. Green fingered tenants are worth their weight in gold I think!


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## ninsaga (25 Nov 2008)

Nothing you can do - ask them to plant something else in its place - move on - life's to short


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## z105 (25 Nov 2008)

It is annoying and whats done is done but perhaps you can amend the lease/issue new lease with very clear instructions on what can/cannot be touched in the garden?


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## jhegarty (25 Nov 2008)

MissThing said:


> "The lawn/garden to be maintained in good order - lawnmower provided."



That could be an issue for you, as it's very open-ended as to what they should/should not do in the garden.


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## woodbine (25 Nov 2008)

i'd be fuming too, but as has already been said you also need to keep your tenants. 

If they hadn't cut down the tree, would there be anywhere else they could park their caravan?  

you need to set some ground rules. and if you have to spell it out in detail, do. (eg, do not cut down any trees without my permission)

what kind of tree was it? you might be able to source one that's a few years old. i would also make sure they cover the cost of replacing it. 


did you get references from them?


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## j26 (25 Nov 2008)

jhegarty said:


> That could be an issue for you, as it's very open-ended as to what they should/should not do in the garden.



Yep, that's pretty much the end of it.  "Good order" is too subjective and vague.


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## Bosshog (25 Nov 2008)

MissThing said:


> and asked me to pay for some gravel to be laid down so its not mucky as they alight their camper



I take it you won't be paying for the gravel


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## Black Sheep (29 Nov 2008)

Your tenants are "green fingered". Of course they were aware that was a tree not alone a special tree. Not even I who would not know a tree from a shrub would dream of cutting down a tree on someone else's property. However it's done so the only thing you can do is to ensure they replace it with one of your choice. 
Then you need to review the whole lease and see what changes need to be made both inside and outside the house


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## Rois (29 Nov 2008)

I agree, I would also be livid. They should have asked for permission. Black Sheep is quite correct.

When I sold my previous house, the first thing the new owner did was remove a beautiful old tree which must have been in the garden for 100 years - so she could sunbathe all day!  If I'd known that she was going to do that I honestly wouldn't have sold the house to her!!


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## mercman (29 Nov 2008)

That sounds very clever !! She bought the house from you, paid you for it, but if you knew she was going to cut down a tree you wouldn't of bothered. I wonder what colour toilet paper she placed in the bathroom. Another good reason.


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## Rois (30 Nov 2008)

mercman said:


> That sounds very clever !! She bought the house from you, paid you for it, but if you knew she was going to cut down a tree you wouldn't of bothered. I wonder what colour toilet paper she placed in the bathroom. Another good reason.


 
I stand by what I said, I would not have sold the house to her if I'd known she was going to have the tree felled.


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## depression (30 Nov 2008)

Its' mindless vandalism.


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## ophelia (2 Dec 2008)

I would be hopping mad if this happened on my leased property. They had some cheek to do that. All mature trees are precious, especially if it is an unusual one. They just put their own needs (parking their very ordinary camper van) in that spot. God, some people really bring out the worst in me . Certainly make them pay for a replacement tree, on the same spot, and don't allow them gravel up any part of your garden.


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## mercman (2 Dec 2008)

But which is more important ? Having a mature couple in a rural property, paying rent in the investment and generally looking after it or have younger persons wrecking the joint. I am not disputing that it is maddening for others to destroy your garden, but you are holding their deposit and time will tell all. One thing certain is that the tree cannot now be replaced.


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## groom (2 Dec 2008)

I think you're right to be livid. That is selfish beyond belief.


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## groom (2 Dec 2008)

mercman said:


> That sounds very clever !! She bought the house from you, paid you for it, but if you knew she was going to cut down a tree you wouldn't of bothered. I wonder what colour toilet paper she placed in the bathroom. Another good reason.



So you're comparing a 100 year old tree that Rois obviously cared alot about to the colour of toilet paper. Yeah that sounds very clever.


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## noel_c (2 Dec 2008)

mercman said:


> But which is more important ? Having a mature couple in a rural property, paying rent in the investment and generally looking after it or have younger persons wrecking the joint.


For some removing a mature tree isn't particularly far off wrecking the joint. It's making a significant and unwanted change to the property without permission. I'd question how green their fingers really are if the think it's sensible to remove a precious mature tree to make way for their van.

But as Mercman says there isn't much that can be done now. If the rental situation is tight in your area and you must keep them on, then make it very clear to them that any future changes to the house or garden need to be approved by you first.


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## depression (2 Dec 2008)

To my mind its the same as if they knocked  down  a wall . I'd be mad about this.


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## Bronte (3 Dec 2008)

The tree is gone, this you cannot rectify.  If they are otherwise good tenants you'll have to bite the bullet and forgive them, but explain that they are not to cut anything else unless they speak to you first.  They are obviously very silly people and you'll have to put it down to this.


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## Caveat (3 Dec 2008)

depression said:


> To my mind its the same as if they knocked down a wall.


 
Hardly in the same league really, in fairness.


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## extopia (3 Dec 2008)

Caveat said:


> Hardly in the same league really, in fairness.



You're right - it's far easier to replace a wall.


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## MissThing (3 Dec 2008)

SPC100 said:


> I suggest you amend your lease to specify pruning and lawn mowing. And permissions for projects beyond that.


 
I think that's what I'm going to have to do. As the lease is already signed can I make an amendment now or wait until the lease expires in 12 months?


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## PaddyBloggit (3 Dec 2008)

Did you talk to them about the felling of the tree?


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## jhegarty (3 Dec 2008)

MissThing said:


> I think that's what I'm going to have to do. As the lease is already signed can I make an amendment now or wait until the lease expires in 12 months?




Only if they agree. You can't force a change on them.


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## Lollix (4 Dec 2008)

You have to be somewhat detached when it comes to rental property. It's not like it's your home, it's an investment that has to pay for itself.
It's annoying when someone does something like this, but what's done is done. Is it worth losing a good tenant over this, given the fact that you still won't have the tree? Forget about it and move on, and be more carful in future when issuing a lease.
For now, I'd get another tree of the same variety and plant it where the camper van doesn't interfere with it. Get as mature a tree as posible and it will make it's presence felt in a couple of years. If you buy one bare rooted from a good nursery and not in a pot from a garden shop it will take well and will help to balance the loss of the other one. Charge them for it as well, but in a nice way.
I'd look at all this another way altogether. If I had a property that I was preparing to let, and the market needed a driveway or a parking space, I'd consider removing a tree to provide that facility. I'd just plant another one somewhere else on the property to make up for it.
As I said, it doesn't pay to get emotionally involved in a property that you are renting out.


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## simon44 (30 Dec 2008)

MissThing said:


> I have rented an older property to retired tenants recently. This property located in the country, is surrounded by a huge lawn and mature hedges and tress - lovely and private. The tenants have cut down a very exotic mature tree which would have been about 25+ years old. I'm absolutely livid!!!! I would have no problem with them trimming hedges, making flower beds, planting etc. they indicated that they were green fingered when they came to view.
> 
> To my mind this is damage and as they had no permission, does this negate their damage deposit?
> 
> ...


 
Get them to replace the tree and all expenses paid by them. Simple as. Otherwise you could sue them if the contract states that they cannot do such things.


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## S.L.F (30 Dec 2008)

MissThing said:


> I have rented an older property to retired tenants recently. This property located in the country, is surrounded by a huge lawn and mature hedges and tress - lovely and private.  The tenants have cut down a very exotic mature tree which would have been about 25+ years old.  I'm absolutely livid!!!!  I would have no problem with them trimming hedges, making flower beds, planting etc. they indicated that they were green fingered when they came to view.
> 
> To my mind this is damage and as they had no permission, does this negate their damage deposit?
> 
> ...



My concern would be what else would they have the cheek or stupidity to remove without asking!


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## mercman (30 Dec 2008)

simon44 said:


> Get them to replace the tree and all expenses paid by them. Simple as. Otherwise you could sue them if the contract states that they cannot do such things.



Good man Simon, Risk losing a tenant in a property in a Rural area and the decent rent being paid for the sake of a tree now, rather than waiting until the tenancy is over. Sue them ??? Tell me what Planet are you on ??


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## jhegarty (30 Dec 2008)

simon44 said:


> Otherwise you could sue them if the contract states that they cannot do such things.



But it didn't say that.


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## crabbybear (31 Dec 2008)

You obviously don't have alot to worry about or your looking for something to worry about -- life is too short to be moaning about a tree in a house you have rented out.

Get real.


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## dontaskme (1 Jan 2009)

crabbybear said:


> You obviously don't have alot to worry about or your looking for something to worry about -- life is too short to be moaning about a tree in a house you have rented out.
> 
> Get real.



 I disagree. The tree was the OP's property and the tenants had no right to chop it down.   The property value could be adversely affected if the OP wants to sell in a few years' time.  And if the tenant now has an extra parking space that they didn't have as part of the original agreement, should they not pay extra for this?


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## Bluebells (9 Jan 2009)

Green Fingers my foot. They were having you on. 

They wanted that house because they could park their campervan. Nobody who loves to grow things would cut down a mature tree, and think it was ok. Next thing they'll do is spray the gravel with Roundup on a windy day.

They will find it hard enough to find another place with space for that van - make them replace that tree. 

By the way, I think it is illegal to fell a tree without a licence from Coilte. Search for a thread in askaboutlaw.

I would be furious if it happened to me.


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2009)

dontaskme said:


> I disagree. The tree was the OP's property and the tenants had no right to chop it down. The property value could be adversely affected if the OP wants to sell in a few years' time. And if the tenant now has an extra parking space that they didn't have as part of the original agreement, should they not pay extra for this?


 
Maybe the extra parking space adds more value than the tree.


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## moneygrower (9 Jan 2009)

I'm a tennant and I think their behaviour is vandalism. If they were younger would people take it so lightly? The arrogance of it makes me wonder what else they've done. Assuming it's a once off innocent mistake I would do the following:
Ring around nurseries (you could start with futureforests in Cork, they can at least point you in the right direction for mature specimens) and ask what would be the equivalent and what would it cost. Golf clubs spend €1000 plus getting mature trees for their courses so it's not a case of popping down to the garden centre and getting a €25 quid cherry tree. When you have this information I would ring them and ask if you can come round to talk to them. At the meeting calmly state that you presume cutting down the tree was an honest mistake but that it was very valuable and give them a written quote for cost of replacement. You can judge it from there as to whether you want them to pay for the full cost of replacement.


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## mercman (9 Jan 2009)

moneygrower said:


> When you have this information I would ring them and ask if you can come round to talk to them. You can judge it from there as to whether you want them to pay for the full cost of replacement.



Again brilliant. The property is in a rural area and they are paying the market rent from some time ago. Is there anyone aware as to how difficult it is to let in a rural area and at a decent rent. Lettings are way down and all and sundry are suggesting throwing out an elderly couple for the sake of a replaceable tree. The deposit should be more than ample to cover the cost of a tree.  This is fast becoming an instance of 'Penny Wise - Pound Foolish'.


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## moneygrower (9 Jan 2009)

Mercman, I think we get it, it's difficult to rent in a rural area. 
By the way, I didn't suggest the OP throw out the tennants. 
Just as landlord shouldn't be allowed exploit tennants on the way up, tennants should respect the property they are renting regardless of market conditions.


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## mathepac (9 Jan 2009)

Bronte said:


> Maybe the extra parking space adds more value than the tree.


At least €200 a year.


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## mercman (11 Jan 2009)

moneygrower said:


> Mercman, I think we get it, it's difficult to rent in a rural area.
> By the way, I didn't suggest the OP throw out the tennants.
> Just as landlord shouldn't be allowed exploit tennants on the way up, tennants should respect the property they are renting regardless of market conditions.



Maybe, but the landlord Insurance Policy is in the form of the deposit


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## Bronte (12 Jan 2009)

mathepac said:


> At least €200 a year.


 LOL is that all, there was another thread on here recently and the cost of the parking space was 70K.  Serously though there are going to be new rules requiring planning if you want to convert your front garden into parking (a green inititative I believe) but it won't apply to those who have already done so, so the tenants may have done the landlord a favour.


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## capall (13 Jan 2009)

Anyone who would chop down a mature tree for a camper van is a barbarian.

Under Brehon Law damage to a tree was punishable by a fine of 2 milch cows and a 3 year old heifer


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