# Trevor Sargent revelations  - Fianna Fail dirty tricks?



## johnd (23 Feb 2010)

Anyone else out there suspect that the "revelations" about Trevor Sargent and his letter to the Garda are part of the dirty tricks department at Fianna fail. It seems strange that within days of the Willie O'Dea affair details of this letter just happen to be made public.

Its seems obvious to me that the independent group of Newspapers is biased towards FF and that is putting it mildly. Having read, but not bought, this weeks Sunday Independent, it seems that the only journalist not in the FF camp is Gene Kerrigan. Angus Fanning, Jodie Corcoran, Brendan O'Connor and of course Senator Harris all wrote glowing tributes to Willie and implied he was the only one stopping Sinn Fein from taking over the country. Jodie Corcoran surpassed himself as he usually does when defending FF ministers. Have these people no dignity or self respect
or even standards?


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## jhegarty (23 Feb 2010)

He has just resigned as junior minister.


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## starlite68 (23 Feb 2010)

yippie! they are dropping like ninepins.


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## tiger (23 Feb 2010)

Can't understand why Sargent did what he did, but at least he's done the right thing in resigning.
Whether it's the case or not, it does appear like dirty tricks may be in play.  I would think the coalition govt is very fragile at the moment, another crisis could sink it.
Will take some strong leadership on both sides to get through this.
On the other side, neither the greens nor FF will want to face the polls.


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## johnd (23 Feb 2010)

Starlite68  -  I share your joy at Willie O'Dea's departure but Travor Sargent always came across to me as a decent man. Often reading a particular court case it seems the wrong person is facing charges. That is the victim who ends up on the wrong side of the law and the alleged offender is protected. Maybe it was that kind of situation? 

Hearing Kevin Doyle, the journalist who broke the story, with such unashamed glee in his voice was sickening. Asked by Matt Cooper if he got the story from his FF bosses he more or less agreed he had - funnny that he also got the letter sent by Travor Sargent to the man who sought his help. The source has to be a FF mole in the Dail with access to mail.


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## NOAH (23 Feb 2010)

And it all happened 2 years ago, now that could set a precedent.


noah


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## johnd (23 Feb 2010)

Having googled in Kevin Doyle  Evening Herald a story came up concerning a complaint about the young journalist being accused of plagiarising an article from The Irish Times! This happened in 2008 and obviously did not damage his career in the Evening Herald, although he has left himself open to questions about his own behaviour.


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## RMCF (23 Feb 2010)

I enjoyed listening to people in the last few hours saying that at least he is a man of principle.

Principle my ass. He did this illegal thing nearly 3 years ago, and only resigned cos he was caught. Plain and simple.

If he was a decent, principaled man he would have resigned when it happened.

Makes you wonder how many secrets our politicians are hiding.

And to the original question, it does smell a bit of dirty tricks, and the parties are now all square.


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## D8Lady (23 Feb 2010)

So if FF were playing dirty tricks to get at the greens - tit for tat resignations - at what point will the whole lot fall apart?


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## Shawady (24 Feb 2010)

I actually felt a bit sorry for Gormley and Ryan yesterday. I think they were afraid to go agianst the government over the Willie O'Dea afair but Dan Boyle forced their hand. Now it looks like the Trevor Sergant story was leaked as revenge. They looked shell-shocked yesterday and unsure how to deal with it.


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## Caveat (24 Feb 2010)

Shawady said:


> They looked shell-shocked yesterday and unsure how to deal with it.


 
Kind of sums up their time in government so far 

Like _Johnd_, had the impression that Trevor was in essence decent and reasonably principled. Maybe not.

Was the last honest politician Dick Spring or something?!


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## Yorrick (24 Feb 2010)

A Green Party Minister has been caught out and now he is so principled that he resigns.  Isn't he courageous and principled ??
Meanwhile 40 miles up the road the bombers are back in business, gangland killings are running at two a week, nearly 500000 people unemployed and we can afford the luxury of wasting time playing silly buggers in the Dail


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## johnd (24 Feb 2010)

Yorrick said:


> A Green Party Minister has been caught out and now he is so principled that he resigns.  Isn't he courageous and principled ??
> Meanwhile 40 miles up the road the bombers are back in business, gangland killings are running at two a week, nearly 500000 people unemployed and we can afford the luxury of wasting time playing silly buggers in the Dail



Are there 500000 people unemployed? If there are we should have riots in the streets. Are you sure about that figure?


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## MrMan (24 Feb 2010)

johnd said:


> Starlite68  -  I share your joy at Willie O'Dea's departure but Travor Sargent always came across to me as a decent man. Often reading a particular court case it seems the wrong person is facing charges. That is the victim who ends up on the wrong side of the law and the alleged offender is protected. Maybe it was that kind of situation?
> 
> Hearing Kevin Doyle, the journalist who broke the story, with such unashamed glee in his voice was sickening. Asked by Matt Cooper if he got the story from his FF bosses he more or less agreed he had - funnny that he also got the letter sent by Travor Sargent to the man who sought his help. The source has to be a FF mole in the Dail with access to mail.



Who would you want in your corner, Willie O@Dea or Trevor Sargent? Decent doesn't even come into it when we are talking about running a country.


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## demoivre (24 Feb 2010)

johnd said:


> Are there 500000 people unemployed?



No, a little over half that amount are unemployed.


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## johnd (24 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Who would you want in your corner, Willie O@Dea or Trevor Sargent? Decent doesn't even come into it when we are talking about running a country.


 
I rather have one Trevor Sargent than ten Willie O'Dea's thanks. As for running the country it is more ruining the country Messers O'Dea and Co have in mind. Party before people and country at all costs -  that's the FF motto.


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## censuspro (24 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> Who would you want in your corner, Willie O@Dea or Trevor Sargent? Decent doesn't even come into it when we are talking about running a country.



I would say Trevor Sargent. Limerick has massive unemployment and crime rates, Willie O'Dea is their TD and minister and he still couldn't follow through on the proposed regeneration project.


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## Bill Struth (24 Feb 2010)

censuspro said:


> I would say Trevor Sargent. Limerick has massive unemployment and crime rates, Willie O'Dea is their TD and minister and he still couldn't follow through on the proposed regeneration project.


 And yet the sheep will still re-elect him.


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## Leo (24 Feb 2010)

demoivre said:


> No, a little over half that amount are unemployed.


 
Only if a little over half of 500,000 is 436,936 as of January. That's an increase of 110,664 in the year.
Leo
* 

*


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## Markjbloggs (24 Feb 2010)

Bill Struth said:


> And yet the sheep will still re-elect him.



Bill, I'm not so sure - a large part of his vote would have come from those people displaced out of the estates earmarked for regeneration.  I'm not sure where they will vote in the next election, but if it is in the constituency to which they have been relocated, Willie could be in trouble.  

Then again, the cute hoor will almost certainly have thought of this and have taken "measures".


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## Staples (24 Feb 2010)

Lest it be forgotten, Sargent was the leader of the Greens who promised in 2007 that he wouldn't lead them into government with FF. What might reasonably have been deduced from this is that the Green Party itself wouldn't go in with FF and they undoubtedly got support from many voters who thought they were voting for change.

While he resigned as leader before entering government (thus ensuring that he was "technically" straight), his acceptance of a ministerial office suggests his opposition to FF was a bit less resolute than the electorate were led to believe. 

While his exit from government may be a personal loss, I find it hard to have any sympathy for someone who should always have been on the back benches anyway.


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## Betsy Og (24 Feb 2010)

While no doubt I'll be derided for being the cause of who we have in office, I think Sargents "crime" was fairly harmless. Of the text that isnt blacked out he asked that witnesses be interviewed before the summons proceeded against his constituent.

Why he had to ask for that logical step is one matter, other than that I dont think he was looking for the case to be dropped. 

On the merits of the case itself it seems his constituent was more sinned against than sinning, copping a headbut from a known criminal (bit of previous .. 10 counts in fact) for complaining about vandalism.

Nobody is perfect, as the saying goes about consitutency clinics, 1/3 want you to do something illegal, 1/3 want you to do something immoral/inappropriate and the last 1/3 are just lonely. So he shouldnt have written the letter, fair enough, but in this zeal of puritanism are we not in danger of throwing out the baby with the bathwater?????

If we limit current representatives and future candidate to 100% squeaky clean, will we have to open up a few enclosed religious orders (no interaction with outside world - before we go on a tangent...) to find those who are without sin?? 

The fact that he raised the bar and failed to meet it himself seems to be his main problem (and I can see some logic in that), but others made representations in far worse cases and brassnecked it out.


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## Purple (24 Feb 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> While no doubt I'll be derided for being the cause of who we have in office, I think Sargents "crime" was fairly harmless. Of the text that isnt blacked out he asked that witnesses be interviewed before the summons proceeded against his constituent.
> 
> Why he had to ask for that logical step is one matter, other than that I dont think he was looking for the case to be dropped.
> 
> ...



I agree with you.
While in opposition any party can be as principled as they like but once in office the reality that (in a democracy) politics is the art compromise dawns on people. That’s how consensus is reached and how decisions are made. I’m not making excuses for this particular transgression or the blatant corruption in the planning area that seemed to be endemic for the last few decades, I am making a broader point about how things work in practice. The alternative is a parliament full of parties who won’t work with each other and a sort of perpetual stalemate where the legislature is unable to appoint an executive to form a government and run the country. That would be far more damaging to democracy than a parliament full of people who realise that pragmatism requires compromise.


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## demoivre (24 Feb 2010)

Leo said:


> Only if a little over half of 500,000 is 436,936 as of January. That's an increase of 110,664 in the year.
> Leo



The Live Register, which you have quoted, does *not* measure unemployment in Ireland and is *not* designed to measure unemployment. Unemployment and the unemployment rate is measured by the Quarterly National Household Survey. As of Qtr 3 2009 there were 279,800 people unemployed in Ireland ( which is just above half of 500,000 as I indicated earlier ), giving an unemployment rate of 12.7%.


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## cork (24 Feb 2010)

Why do people go to TDs to access social services?

How many TDs exercise "influence"?

It shows the state of Irish Politics when you see opposition partys being po faced trying to take the moral ground preaching.


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## bond-007 (24 Feb 2010)

> Why do people go to TDs to access social services?


Because accessing them by normal channels does not work or takes too long.


> How many TDs exercise "influence"?


Many do, particularly FF ones.


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## MrMan (24 Feb 2010)

censuspro said:


> I would say Trevor Sargent. Limerick has massive unemployment and crime rates, Willie O'Dea is their TD and minister and he still couldn't follow through on the proposed regeneration project.



True, i hear Dublin is now devoid of crime and employment rates are rapidly expanding. Between gang crime and general scumbag behaviour, our country has a problem to deal with. Limerick has its share as has every other city and town in the country, we don't have the correct measures in place to deal with them.


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## Jim Davis (25 Feb 2010)

MrMan said:


> True, i hear Dublin is now devoid of crime and employment rates are rapidly expanding. Between gang crime and general scumbag behaviour, our country has a problem to deal with. Limerick has its share as has every other city and town in the country, we don't have the correct measures in place to deal with them.


 
The difference is that Willie O'Dea wouldnt get elected in Dublin.


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## Yorrick (25 Feb 2010)

Thats correct. In Dublin they would elect George Lee, Podge and Rodge or anyone else who they think is a celebrity


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## MrMan (25 Feb 2010)

Jim Davis said:


> The difference is that Willie O'Dea wouldnt get elected in Dublin.



If we get into a tit for tat debate on politicians in different counties it would soon showcase the level of talent at our disposal, for your WoD tit i could say Bertie tat etc etc.


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## Howitzer (25 Feb 2010)

Elsewhere, the Green Party confirmed that Trevor Sargent has donated his ministerial payoff to the Society of Saint Vincent De Paul.


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## DB74 (25 Feb 2010)

Staples said:


> Lest it be forgotten, Sargent was the leader of the Greens who promised in 2007 that he wouldn't lead them into government with FF. What might reasonably have been deduced from this is that the Green Party itself wouldn't go in with FF and they undoubtedly got support from many voters who thought they were voting for change.
> 
> While he resigned as leader before entering government (thus ensuring that he was "technically" straight), his acceptance of a ministerial office suggests his opposition to FF was a bit less resolute than the electorate were led to believe.


 
Maybe I have my dates mixed up but I thought that Sargeant stated that he wouldn't go into government with FF AFTER the General Election and not before.

Also, the political party voted democratically to enter into government with FF.

Subsequently Sargeant resigned as party leader.

Seems like a fairly reasonable principled thing to do IMO


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## johnd (25 Feb 2010)

I was a bit surprised at the judge's reported  remarks in the original court case. The barrister for the constituent, who contacted Trevor Sargent, described him as a concerned citizen and the judge was reported to have retorted "Too much concerned".  Neither the Garda nor individual judges are saints and they do have their own bias and people should be free to comment on court cases and their outcomes. In my opinion this man was badly treated by both.


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## Jim Davis (28 Feb 2010)

Yorrick said:


> Thats correct. In Dublin they would elect George Lee, Podge and Rodge or anyone else who they think is a celebrity



As opposed to Mary Coughlan, Michael Martin, Brian Cowen, Noel Dempsey and the rest of the FF cronies that we have inflicted upon us.


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## D8Lady (28 Feb 2010)

Yorrick said:


> Thats correct. In Dublin they would elect George Lee, Podge and Rodge or anyone else who they think is a celebrity



Lee is an economist who know's how to communicte the degree of how fecked thing up are - not just a pretty face. 

Beverly Cooper Flynn anyone


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## Yorrick (1 Mar 2010)

She's a class act


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## Capt. Beaky (1 Mar 2010)

Surely you meant "crass act"? No?


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## Purple (1 Mar 2010)

capt. Beaky said:


> surely you meant "crass act"? No?



Lol


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## lazylump (1 Mar 2010)

The way I see this is the ethics for a TD are not as important as the ethics for a Minister.  Surly if something is a ministerial resigning matter its also a TD resigning issue. Or are the ethics of a TD different.


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## ajapale (1 Mar 2010)

I heard a rumour that it was "BigAgri" that nobbled Sargent!


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