# "good ventilation more important than distancing"



## Brendan Burgess (8 Oct 2020)

An excellent article by Orla Hegarty in today's Irish Times









						Why good ventilation is key to stopping the spread of Covid-19
					

Clean air far more important than clean hands




					www.irishtimes.com
				




I have heard her speaking on housing and she is very good. She applies the same clear thinking to Covid.

Brendan


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## Sophrosyne (8 Oct 2020)

I'm not sure that good ventilation is more important but I think it is equally important.


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## odyssey06 (8 Oct 2020)

Sophrosyne said:


> I'm not sure that good ventilation is more important but I think it is equally important.



I think the thrust of the article is that super-spreader events are more likely to be mitigated by good ventilation.
The virus can spread by contact but there are more 'hoops' for it to go through for infection there so a contact  based super-spreader event is less likely.
So important to sanitise your hands after contact, but you can't sanitise your lungs after inhaling a dose.


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## Leper (8 Oct 2020)

I have no doubt that good ventilation is good for peoples' health during the Covid pandemic. But, wearing of a face mask, coughing/sneezing properly, self distancing, common sense are equally as important. 

Our primary school going grandchildren learn in classrooms with windows open and if the teacher deems necessary the door is opened too. I reckon the country went lax for several weeks supported  by many who couldn't give a whit about others. Unfortunately, we're playing catch-up again, but with some more care I think we'll eventually beat the virus.


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## Leo (8 Oct 2020)

The key word here is 'good' ventilation, there are multiple documented cases of mass-infection events in ventilated restaurants and offices where forced airflow directs a virion flow past the faces of others present. The extraction airflow needs to be moved from head height and expelled as quickly as possible, I'm not sure how feasible that is without massive investment.



> In Ireland, a drop in cases coincided with warmer temperatures when activity moved outside and buildings were ventilated freely.



To suggest that the lower rates of infection were simple down to people being outdoors enjoying a bit of sun is to ignore a lot of data that shows people just stayed home. Traffic volumes dropped by 70%, footfall on Grafton St. in Dublin for example dropped by more that 90%. She also overlooks the role of low temperature in the meat factories.


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## Marion (8 Oct 2020)

What is good ventilation?

I open bottom windows and top windows and leave the door open in the rooms where I work. I do not allow them to be closed. The building is airtight, but with no mechanical ventilation. Students already complaining and constantly closing windows. They are immediately requested to open them again. I am not sure how this will work out when it gets really cold! I have advised coats gloves hats and thermals! 

Marion


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## Leper (9 Oct 2020)

Marion said:


> What is good ventilation?
> 
> I open bottom windows and top windows and leave the door open in the rooms where I work. I do not allow them to be closed. The building is airtight, but with no mechanical ventilation. Students already complaining and constantly closing windows. They are immediately requested to open them again. I am not sure how this will work out when it gets really cold! I have advised coats gloves hats and thermals!
> 
> Marion


Excellent process Marion. I know there are colder times immediately ahead. If you are looking for suggestions I reckon reminding the students:- 
1. "We are all in this together" might help. You will get the whingers of course, we'll always have them.
2. Allow wearing of tracksuits instead of school uniform.
3. Instruct students to bring flasks of hot drinks. 
4. Short period of physical exercise every hour.
5. I don't know what you'll do with moaning parents.


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## Silvius (10 Oct 2020)

I don't envy you Marion. It's hard to know what to do in that situation, you absolutely want ventilation but being cold isn't good for the immune system and makes you more likely to pick up anything that's going round. To that extent the moaning parents would have a point.


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## odyssey06 (10 Oct 2020)

The ideal solution in winter would be portal HEPA filter devices in every school room.


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## almostthere (28 Oct 2020)

I was in the Stillorgan branch of Lidl today. Hot air fans blowing down from the roof on top of everyone. You could feel the flow of air hitting your face. I said to a staff member that I did not think that this practice was healthy and she said...."I'm cold".

Lidl have adverts on the radio telling people that face coverings are compulsory in their stores. One staff member, possibly the manager was stocktaking in the store and not wearing any type of face covering. Another staff member with his mask just over his mouth, not his nose.

I certainly did not feel safe or comfortable so I left.


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## Purple (28 Oct 2020)

Marion said:


> What is good ventilation?


In the context of Covid, or just recommended best practice, it's 20L per second per person in the room. If you are in a classroom with 19 students (I use 19 so that including you it is 20 in total as I'm not much good at the maths) that's 24,000 litres of air per minute (20L x 20 people x 60 seconds).
24,000 cubic litres is 24 cubic metres. The volume of a 7M x 7M x 3.14M high room is 153.86 cubic Metres (3.14 is the standard room height in Ireland) so the air in the room should be replaced every 6.41 seconds.

Keep the windows open.


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## Grizzly (19 Nov 2020)

I called to a chemist just off the Stillorgan/Donnybrook Road in Dublin yesterday.  The front door was closed and it was stifling hot inside. As I was leaving, around lunchtime, a younger staff member was returning to the shop.  She immediately opened the front door to let some air inside and circulate.
There you had a situation where one member of staff did not seem aware of the need for proper air circulation and the other staff member did have an awareness.
Two people working in the same environment, one aware and the other unaware. How do you legislate for this type of situation?


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## IsleOfMan (19 Nov 2020)

Grizzly said:


> There you had a situation where one member of staff did not seem aware of the need for proper air circulation and the other staff member did have an awareness.


Many years ago I worked with a woman who was always "cold". We kept a nice even temperature in our office with good ventilation. When one of us would go on our lunch she would put up the heating to it's highest temperature. When we returned to the office it was like a sauna.  I remember just after lunch I was having a mortgage interview with a couple in these sauna like conditions. She was pregnant. During the interview she felt faint and we had to terminate the interview. I had a chat with the staff member about this and the need to have a normal temperature in the office. In later years this staff member made a bullying complaint against her manager (not me) and among her list of bullying grievances was that she was expected to work in cold conditions.

The above post brought back these memories.


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