# Estate agent Seeking Deposit With Extensive Work Still Required To Building



## Alwyn (15 Jun 2011)

I came across an ideally located premises that had been lying idle for quite some time.  Thought it a bit strange that it had not been rented before now as it is in a relatively thriving spot so I contacted the auctioneer last week.  Everything seemed fine apart from extensive work to the ceiling that the LL will get sorted.  I made an offer and it was accepted.  This morning I got a telephone call from my solicitor who said he had received a call from the estate agent who said they would not instruct their clients solicitor to send on contracts without me sending them a deposit first.  In this day and age would it not be appropriate to see what you are signing up to before you start bandying deposits about the place?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2011)

Hi 

Generally when your offer is accepted you pay a small deposit, e.g. €5,000,  to the vendors' solicitors. Don't pay it to the estate agent. 

The estate agent knows that you are serious if you pay a deposit. 

This does not commit you in any way. If you don't like what you see in the contracts, you can pull out and get your deposit back. 

When the contracts are signed, it is usually a condition that you bring the total deposit up to 10% of the purchase price. 



> Everything seemed fine apart from extensive work to the ceiling that the LL will get sorted.



This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. You sign contracts subject to the vendor fixing this damage. He does a cheap job on it and you refuse to complete the contract. 

Either you should not exchange contracts until the ceiling is fixed to your surveyor's satisfaction or else, you should agree a reduction in the price and buy it as is. Fixing it yourself seems to me to be the best option.

Brendan


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## Alwyn (15 Jun 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Generally when your offer is accepted you pay a small deposit, e.g. €5,000, to the vendors' solicitors. Don't pay it to the estate agent.



Thank you Brendan.  That is exactly what I thought.  My plan was to pay this deposit via my solicitor who would subsequently pass it to the vendors solicitors but the estate agent has cut across this and said the deposit should be paid to her and put into their customer account??


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2011)

I personally would pay it directly to the vendor's solicitors. 

I wouldn't pay it to your solicitor in case they are slow to pass it on. 

I wouldn't pay it to the auctioneers either, as I just don't trust them as a group of people. However, ask you solicitor to whom you should pay it.


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## Lobby (5 Jul 2011)

If the auctioneer is a member of IAVI (SCSI) or IPAV then they should be OK as they have a policy to cover deposits should they go bust.

Probably the main reason the auctioneer wants the deposit though is that they normally retain their fee from the deposit when the sale eventually closes, it's much easier than subsequently trying to get paid by the vendor afterwards.


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## Spear (5 Jul 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I personally would pay it directly to the vendor's solicitors.
> 
> I wouldn't pay it to your solicitor in case they are slow to pass it on.
> 
> I wouldn't pay it to the auctioneers either, as I just don't trust them as a group of people. However, ask you solicitor to whom you should pay it.



As far as I understand, the vast majority of deposits are paid to the estate agent. That's their business model. Therefore if you don't pay it to them, you could end up getting in to a heated exchange which may not be in your best interests, should you wish to negotiate further. My view is to keep the estate agent on side as much as possible.


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## onq (5 Jul 2011)

1. Talk to your solicitor and make sure it is clearly understood by the other party that this is a _refundable_ deposit.

2. Do not close the deal unless you know for certain that there are no outstanding Rates to be paid in respect of this property. Owners have a habit of allowing new tenants to become liable for older tenants rates. This has been discussed on AAM previously.

3. I wouldn't even have seriously looked at this property without getting it surveyed.
The _"extensive work to the ceiling that the LL will get sorted"_ could turn into an expensive job that never gets completed and could affect trading.
If the cause of this is damp or a partial collapse then the joists overhead may need to be replaced and this could cause extended delays in you taking up your tenancy.
Whatever the reason, you should have the premises inspected by a chartered surveyor or architect to ensure its compliant with the building regulations as applicable and in all cases with the fire safety regulations.

ONQ.

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot      be                           relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                           as    a                          defence          or                          support      -                in                   and         of                                 itself       -                                          should                                        legal                                        action                         be                                           taken.
              Competent legal and building professionals should be asked            to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                    Real               Life              with                      rights            to                             inspect                 and                               issue                                      reports                   on                        the                                                          matters                at                                         hand.


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## Spear (5 Jul 2011)

onq said:


> 2. Do not close the deal unless you know for certain that there are no outstanding Rates to be paid in respect of this property. Owners have a habit of allowing new tenants to become liable for older tenants rates. This has been discussed on AAM previously.


 
Onq - what outstanding rates would there be and how would you find out whether there are any still outstanding?  Where exactly was this discussed previously?


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## onq (5 Jul 2011)

@ Spear -

*LA chasing me for rates arrears (commercial lease) not paid by a previous tenant* is the most thread that springs to mind - there may be others.

I was outraged by the sharp practice apparently still being followed by some members of the "landed gentry" - i.e. the owner of the premises who never followed up on the rates unpaid by the previous lessee.
I was also quite surprised that Brendan stated in the thread that he wouldn't have known about this practice - since he is one of the founts of knowledge on AAM 
When someone posted that you couldn't even trust a solicitor to ask about this I made a mental note about it.

I only knew about this thread subject because I read it and contributed to it.
It should be mandatory to disclose this under requisitions on title.
Personally I think it is a form of odious debt.

Hope this helps.


ONQ.

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot      be                           relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                           as    a                          defence          or                          support      -                in                   and         of                                 itself       -                                          should                                        legal                                        action                         be                                           taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked            to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                    Real               Life              with                      rights            to                             inspect                 and                               issue                                      reports                   on                        the                                                          matters                at                                         hand.


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## Spear (5 Jul 2011)

Very clear, now.  Thanks, Onq.


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## onq (6 Jul 2011)

You're very welcome.

Spread word of this practise at every opportunity.

I'd like to see it stamped out and the people owing the rates pursued.


ONQ.

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot      be                            relied                      upon                                                                                                                                                             as    a                           defence          or                           support      -                in                   and         of                                  itself       -                                           should                                        legal                                         action                         be                                            taken.
              Competent legal and building professionals should be asked             to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                       Real               Life              with                       rights            to                             inspect                  and                               issue                                       reports                   on                        the                                                           matters                at                                          hand.


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## Alwyn (17 Aug 2011)

Thanks Onq.

The lease fell through as I refused to hand he deposit to the auctioneer.  When I explained I would give it directly to the LL's solicitor; the setate agent said - (her words not mine!) "pay me directly as I don't want to be duped out of my fees"!)  As you can imagine I gathered my deposit up real quickly and withdrew my interest.


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