# Returning a large heavy damaged treadmill bought online



## MickFarr (23 Dec 2021)

Hi,

On the 10/11/21 I bought a Proform Pro 5000 treadmill from FitnessDigital.ie for €1,599. I noticed on the shipping companys (Dachser) tracking website that they had marked it as "Packaging Damaged". When the treadmill was delivery on the 27/11/21 I noticed the box was badly damaged, so I wrote on the deliverey receipt that is was damaged. However after a visual inspection of the contents everything looked good. The product was assembled later that day and that is when the engine noise was discovered. I took video footage of the engine noise and sent an email the next day (28/11/21) 

After 10 days I still hadn't received a reply so I filed for a chargeback on Revolut. Then the next day I received an email from FitnessDigital that they would only accept a return if I disassembled the treadmill and returned it in its original packaging. This would be reasonable enough if I was returning something I was not happy with or if I was returning something small but this is a 6 foot by 6 foot by 3 foot wide treadmill that weighs 151kg!

I cannot move this treadmill myself and I should not incur any out of pocket expense when returning a damaged treadmill? Does anyone know what I can do here. Revolut have sided with FitnessDigital and closed my case?

Thanks


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## Pinoy adventure (23 Dec 2021)

Are they Irish based ? If so hiring a van with man for the day too deliver it back too them if Irish based might work out cheaper for you in the long run.


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## MickFarr (23 Dec 2021)

Unfortunately they are based in Spain. I made the mistake of assuming ".ie" would mean they had an office in Ireland. As far as I know they are still  responsible for collecting heavy bulky objects from your house. They are insisting I have to dismantle it and package it in the original box which has already been disposed.


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## noproblem (23 Dec 2021)

Some of these treadmills are a disaster when things go wrong. What would you have done if the rubber on the treadmill got worn, starts to turn very slowly and you trying to run/walk, rubber stalls completely, etc, etc? That's some of what goes wrong, pretty often I might add with these machines.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (23 Dec 2021)

It depends on the grounds for sending it back. If it's just "I've changed my mind" then it's reasonable for them to ask for original boxing.

If it's defective then it's also reasonable that you'd have disposed of packaging after assembly.

Either way you have to bring it to doorstep for courier. You didn't pay for assembly on site.

I think you have to package it yourself in such a way that the courier can safely remove it. You can try billing the supplier for this but you might not get far!

I've toyed with the idea of a treadmill but would only buy one locally where you can have a relationship for repairs, faults, etc. More expensive but less likely to have issues like these.


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## Páid (23 Dec 2021)

I ordered an elliptical trainer from the same company and my experience was positive. The machine is still in perfect working order about 18 months later and it gets very regular use.

A €1,599 treadmill is top of the range and not run of the mill (pun intended). I would be expecting that it be delivered in perfect condition. I also think that it's reasonable for them to expect it to be packaged appropriately when it's being returned to them if only to prevent further damage from occurring.


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## MrEarl (23 Dec 2021)

Hello,

I think you'll need to disassemble the item and pack it, so it's ready for collection.  While frustrating, don't let this distract you from the big picture - you've been sold a fault item.

I think the transaction is covered by the Consumer Rights Directive.

Send the vendor a registered letter, advising that the product is faulty and that you want an immediate replacement, or refund. I'd suggest that you reference the Consumer Rights Directive, as its EU wide.

Is they fail to replace or refund, I'd quickly be looking at legal remedies. 

As for Revolut, I'd contact them again, tell them that your area in dispute with the merchant, and that you want the payment called back (assuming the vendor isn't resolving the problem). If they fail to assist, log a formal complaint with Revolut - no guarantees that you'll get anywhere, but it's worth a try. Ultimately, this is an example of where you'd probably have a little more protection, if it was a credit card purchase.


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It depends on the grounds for sending it back. If it's just "I've changed my mind" then it's reasonable for them to ask for original boxing.
> 
> If it's defective then it's also reasonable that you'd have disposed of packaging after assembly.
> 
> ...



It was defective on arrival and they are not disputing this. They have also said that they will only refund if it is returned in the original packaging.
The only problem is I don't have the original packaging.  This was marked as "Packaging Damaged" by the shipping company. I also took a picture and signed the shipping receipt as "Damaged". Everything looked good and the fault was only noticed when fully assembled.


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> I think you'll need to disassemble the item and pack it, so it's ready for collection.  While frustrating, don't let this distract you from the big picture - you've been sold a fault item.
> 
> ...



I don't think it is actually possible to dismantle it fully after its been fully assemble. It is 6 foot high, 6 foot long and 3 foot wide and weighs 151 kilos.  When you assemble it you have to do it in a specific order, for example its tells you not to snap the foot covers down until they bolts have been secured. These click into place when you apply pressure and cannot be removed afterwards. Also I would have thought returning large and heavy items would require help from the company you bought the product from. 

Has anyone ever had to return a fridge, washing machine or tumble dryer in its original packaging after they have been given a faulty item? Why should this be treated any differently?


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

Páid said:


> I ordered an elliptical trainer from the same company and my experience was positive. The machine is still in perfect working order about 18 months later and it gets very regular use.
> 
> A €1,599 treadmill is top of the range and not run of the mill (pun intended). I would be expecting that it be delivered in perfect condition. I also think that it's reasonable for them to expect it to be packaged appropriately when it's being returned to them if only to prevent further damage from occurring.



It is the Proform Pro 5000 treadmill and was about 700 euros cheaper than buying it anywhere else.

I agree with having to package small items in their original packing but there's no chance anyone could be reasonable expected to repack the treadmill back into its original package.


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## Páid (24 Dec 2021)

I think you should disassemble it as much as you can i.e. without removing the foot covers if they have been already snapped into place or anything else that would be damaged if removed.

I would package it as good as possible so that it can be transported safely. 

If you are being reasonable they cannot ask for more than that.


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## MrEarl (24 Dec 2021)

I think the original poster is just refusing to accept the reality of the situation, now...  

Spend part of the €700 that you saved, on some decent bubblewrap etc.


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

Páid said:


> I think you should disassemble it as much as you can i.e. without removing the foot covers if they have been already snapped into place or anything else that would be damaged if removed.
> 
> I would package it as good as possible so that it can be transported safely.
> 
> If you are being reasonable they cannot ask for more than that.


They will only accept it returned in the original packaging.  The original packaging was damaged during shipping and has been disposed of and if I can't remove the covers from the bottom then the frame would never fit into the original packaging.

I don't feel they have been reasonable at all. The problem was reported to them by Dachser about the damage happening in transit and I replied with a video on the 28, it took them over 10 days to reply and they only did so after contacted by Revolut.

I've been polite in all my emails and they stopped replying to since Revolut sided with them on my chargeback


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## Cervelo (24 Dec 2021)

If the company aren't willing to deal with this properly and to your satisfaction and Revolut has denied your claim I can only see one option open to you and that is to file a claim under the "Sales of Goods Act" in the small claims court here and take it from there

I'm not sure what happens if you are successful against a foreign company with regards to getting your money back but the act is quite clear in it's wording that if you have bought a defective item it is the sellers obligation to "repair, replace or refund the defective item

And I seem to remember that from a discussion a couple of years back with ECC Ireland that the seller is also obliged to cover the costs of returning the defective item to themselves

Probably a bit late in the year now given Christmas is tomorrow but give the ECC a call or drop them an email in the new year and they will advise better  








						European Consumer Centre Ireland - ECC Ireland
					

ECC Ireland provides advice to Irish consumers on their rights in the European Union and assistance with cross-border complaints.




					www.eccireland.ie


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

MrEarl said:


> I think the original poster is just refusing to accept the reality of the situation, now...
> 
> Spend part of the €700 that you saved, on some decent bubblewrap etc.



I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion? I've been in touch with Revolut and I have opened a case with the European Consumer Centre, I think if anything it's FitnessDigital who are refusing to accept the reality of the situation now. 

Also in regard to spending money the law states that if you receive a damaged/faulty product on delivery you should not incur any out of pocket expense to have the item repaired, replaced or refunded.

I am only posting here to see if anyone was in a similar situation to me, thanks


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

Cervelo said:


> If the company aren't willing to deal with this properly and to your satisfaction and Revolut has denied your claim I can only see one option open to you and that is to file a claim under the "Sales of Goods Act" in the small claims court here and take it from there
> 
> I'm not sure what happens if you are successful against a foreign company with regards to getting your money back but the act is quite clear in it's wording that if you have bought a defective item it is the sellers obligation to "repair, replace or refund the defective item
> 
> ...



Everything you have said is correct and I have already been in touch with the ECC and they have opened a case for me. I have forward all the emails, pictures, and tracking information were it states that it was damaged in transit. What I'm trying to find out about here is the returning of the damaged treadmill. Its not reasonable to expect someone to try to repackage a 151 kg treadmill and I know I did come across a law does state "within reason". 

The timing is not the best and I'll be waiting for an update from the ECC but so far they are on my side, I was hoping someone might know from experience but I guess I'll have to wait till they are back open in January.

The good news is I can still use it and thanks for your informed reply


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## Cervelo (24 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> The good news is I can still use it


I'll have a word with Santa tonight and see if he can deliver headphones for you and anybody within earshot of the treadmill


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

Pinoy adventure said:


> Or just go walking/running outside even in the rain



I'll let you tell my wife :-D  

It's actually part of a home gym I've built out the back and since Covid everyone is making good use of it. I'd say the C2 rower actual gets used the most. Try rowing flat out for 1,000 metres, argh!!


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## noproblem (24 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> I'll let you tell my wife :-D
> 
> It's actually part of a home gym I've built out the back and since Covid everyone is making good use of it. I'd say the C2 rower actual gets used the most. Try rowing flat out for 1,000 metres, argh!!


1000mtrs? Come on guys, get your backs into it, that's hardly going from A to B


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## Jim2007 (24 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> It is the Proform Pro 5000 treadmill and was about 700 euros cheaper than buying it anywhere else.
> 
> I agree with having to package small items in their original packing but there's no chance anyone could be reasonable expected to repack the treadmill back into its original package.


What does the T&C have to say about returning items? It is pretty much the standard to return items disassembled and in their original packaging.   And in this case you were even alerted to the possibility that you might have to return the item...  I very much doubt you'll get far while refusing to comply with the terms and conditions for a return.


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

noproblem said:


> 1000mtrs? Come on guys, get your backs into it, that's hardly going from A to B



Can you beat my 1k time?


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## MickFarr (24 Dec 2021)

Jim2007 said:


> What does the T&C have to say about returning items? It is pretty much the standard to return items disassembled and in their original packaging.   And in this case you were even alerted to the possibility that you might have to return the item...  I very much doubt you'll get far while refusing to comply with the terms and conditions for a return.



Damage Packaging


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## Jim2007 (24 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> Damage Packaging


Clearly not an answer to the question.  Not much point in examining the issue if you are not able to detail the T&C.


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## noproblem (25 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> Can you beat my 1k time?


Maybe not over a warm up 1km, but can hold the 1km pace and wouldn't be far off your 1km time over 10kms distance.


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## Clamball (25 Dec 2021)

I had to return a large object at work that did not work as required.  We were asked to put it in original packaging which we no longer had, including the timber pallet came on, it was around 200 kg.  The company said they wanted it packaged so that it would not be damaged in transit back to them which is why they asked for the original packaging as they knew this suited the item.  So we were able to satisfy this condition by a different pallet and bubble wrapping the parts that could move or cause damage and taping on the loose bits (like the plug lead) putting bubble wrap around the door handles, taping the doors together so it did not fall open etc.  We informed the company that we did not have a pallet truck or a fork lift to put it in the back of the truck. 

So courier companies like DHL or UPS or DPD will not take items on a pallet we have had to use different courier type company to move large items in the past.  Because you are sending it to Spain it would need to go groupage.  What we find with courier companies for larger items it takes a bit of teamwork to get it on the lorry and secured.  Take photos and videos of proof it was well secured on the truck.  They often use blankets to prevent further damage.   

As the others said, get rolls of bubble wrap, and packing tape and get to work.  Putting the pieces on a pallet might be a good idea but not all couriers can take pallets.  Then organise for shipment by courier.  Keep the company appraised of tracking and delivery details.  Best of luck.


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## MickFarr (25 Dec 2021)

Clamball said:


> I had to return a large object at work that did not work as required.  We were asked to put it in original packaging which we no longer had, including the timber pallet came on, it was around 200 kg.  The company said they wanted it packaged so that it would not be damaged in transit back to them which is why they asked for the original packaging as they knew this suited the item.  So we were able to satisfy this condition by a different pallet and bubble wrapping the parts that could move or cause damage and taping on the loose bits (like the plug lead) putting bubble wrap around the door handles, taping the doors together so it did not fall open etc.  We informed the company that we did not have a pallet truck or a fork lift to put it in the back of the truck.
> 
> So courier companies like DHL or UPS or DPD will not take items on a pallet we have had to use different courier type company to move large items in the past.  Because you are sending it to Spain it would need to go groupage.  What we find with courier companies for larger items it takes a bit of teamwork to get it on the lorry and secured.  Take photos and videos of proof it was well secured on the truck.  They often use blankets to prevent further damage.
> 
> As the others said, get rolls of bubble wrap, and packing tape and get to work.  Putting the pieces on a pallet might be a good idea but not all couriers can take pallets.  Then organise for shipment by courier.  Keep the company appraised of tracking and delivery details.  Best of luck.


Thanks Campbell, I took plenty of pictures of the damage box which I have sent to the ECC, also the report from DACHSER. I did ask them if they could supply me with a box but they never replied to the email.

I'll see what the ECC say and what to do next, thanks


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## SPC100 (25 Dec 2021)

I'd pack it back up with whatever material I have or can get and organize return.


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## presidenttttt (26 Dec 2021)

Interesting one, I think the company are reasonable to ask for original packaging, but if you don't have it they would be unreasonable to dig in on this point. 

Did you say revolut were not interested? Given the threadmill company slow response and any further resistance I would press revolut to call back the money. I do think it is reasonable to ask you to do your best to dissemble and package as best you can.

Reasonable and the law can of course be two different things.


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## PaddyBloggit (26 Dec 2021)

MickFarr said:


> The good news is I can still use it



When you say it's damaged; what's wrong with it?


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## MickFarr (27 Dec 2021)

presidenttttt said:


> Interesting one, I think the company are reasonable to ask for original packaging, but if you don't have it they would be unreasonable to dig in on this point.
> 
> Did you say revolut were not interested? Given the threadmill company slow response and any further resistance I would press revolut to call back the money. I do think it is reasonable to ask you to do your best to dissemble and package as best you can.
> 
> Reasonable and the law can of course be two different things.


Revolut say that they can only proceed with a chargeback when I give them a tracking number. They said it's my responsibility to return it as per visa rules and closed the case. Since then FitnessDigital have not replied to any emails.

I have opened a case with the ECC but it will be probably sometime in January before I hear back.

I feel pretty confident with my case considering the shipping company have also stated that the packaging was damaged. Also FitnessDigital have accepted that the treadmill was most likely damaged in transit too.

I'll update the tread with any updates, thanks


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## MickFarr (27 Dec 2021)

PaddyBloggit said:


> When you say it's damaged; what's wrong with it?



There's a constant clunk sound coming from one of the rollers when the treadmill is on but they main problem is the engine makes a very loud sound when the speed is set to 14km or above. I'm also not convinced it is brand new and I think it may be refurbished, there was a lot of dirt on the inside and some finger marks (I think) on the engine housing.

None of that matters as they have accepted that it is faulty.


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## Leo (28 Dec 2021)

Their T&Cs note that all original packaging is required to return an item, but they can't deny liability for a faulty item based on a lack of packaging. 



MickFarr said:


> As far as I know they are still responsible for collecting heavy bulky objects from your house. They are insisting I have to dismantle it and package it in the original box which has already been disposed.


While they do have an obligation to arrange for the collection of a faulty item, they have no obligation to dismantle or package it up for you, you must do that yourself. 

Lesson learned, but you should have retained all the original packaging, especially given the obvious abuse it had suffered, and done your best to patch that up to a standard the courier company would accept. Now is a good time to ask family and friends to donate packaging they might have from Christmas presents to package the item as best you can. You will need to ensure it can be transported back without further damage. Once it's shipped, reach out to Revolut again, they should be able to refund you once you can supply the shipping details.


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## MickFarr (29 Dec 2021)

Leo said:


> Lesson learned, but you should have retained all the original packaging, especially given the obvious abuse it had suffered, and done your best to patch that up to a standard the courier company would accept. Now is a good time to ask family and friends to donate packaging they might have from Christmas presents to package the item as best you can. You will need to ensure it can be transported back without further damage. Once it's shipped, reach out to Revolut again, they should be able to refund you once you can supply the shipping details.



They won't accept it returned in anything other than the original packaging so I can't use any donated boxes. I'll wait to see the out come from the ECC and what they say, thanks


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## MickFarr (5 Jan 2022)

Great news!!

They got back to me yesterday and apologised for not replying to my emails, they said they didn't receive any of the other emails.

They are going to send me a new treadmill and I can return the old one in the new treadmills box. I only need to swap the faulty base unit with the new base unit saving me from having to unpack all of the other parts. When its ready they will then come and collect it, perfect 

Thanks to everyone who replied and Happy New Year!


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## Páid (5 Jan 2022)

Well done and a great result.


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## Cervelo (5 Jan 2022)

Yes a good result finally and at no extra cost to you 
It's a great act the "Sales and Goods Act" for the consumer and provides a lot of protection for the consumer well beyond the usual warranties
I'm not up to date with it now but have used it in the past to great success including getting Sony to replace my 3 year old TV for free


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