# Osama Bin Ladin is Dead



## sustanon (2 May 2011)

breaking news on CNN here in the US, and on all stations now. Presidential address in 10 to 15 minutes.


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## horusd (2 May 2011)

Just watched the news at 7am. Images of him shown with apparently a bullet thro the head. He was killed in Pakistan as was a number of other people, including his son. Crowds on the nightime streets in DC and NY "celebrating".

Bin Laden was a nutjob and a very nastly bloke. His passing will be regretted by few people. But this whole thing leaves me very uneasy, here's why:

 3000 people killed in 9/11. America launches a massive strike (Operation Enduring Freedom) and topples the Taliban. America is now engaged in it's longest war. The total allied casualties exceed 2400, including 1420 in Afghanistan. Total American dead in Iraq ,33,023 with an additional 100,000 or so injured. Roughly 18 American vet suicides per day.  Iraqi deaths since war began, nearly 1.5 million.

The costs of American-led actions both in human and financial terms are vast. America has beggared itself with war. Is the world a safer place or more dangerous place since all this began? Never mind the reputationally incredibly damaging Guantanamo bay spectacle, or Abu Graib. Names burned forever into the psyche of the destroyed countries and the rest of the ME that have undoubtedly fuelled the extremism America sought to counter by attacking in the 1st place.  

The sight of American's celebrating Osma's death coupled with a warning of heightened security at American embassies etc tells us that there is really little to celebrate. They have created a new martyr for extremism, and the fight will trundle on interminably until someone calls a halt.


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## Purple (2 May 2011)

Whatever questions there may be about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan the death of Binladin is 100% a good thing.
The bravery and skill of the SEAL team that carried out the operation is remarkable.
While 9/11 was event that pushed the USA into military action let’s not forget the attacks on the USS Cole and the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania as well as the tens of thousands of Muslims he's killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.


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## potnoodler (2 May 2011)

lets hope the world is better off without him, by that I mean who replaces him,


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## z107 (2 May 2011)

I wonder what airport 'security' will be like for the next few weeks.


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## Sim Two (2 May 2011)

Guess we all now know why William and Kate postponed their honeymoon


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## Tinker Bell (2 May 2011)

The elephant in the room can now be discussed. USA debt. The national debt is now the highest it has been as a percentage of GNP since World War II. (several sources)


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## Lex Foutish (2 May 2011)

Tinker Bell said:


> *The elephant in the room can now be discussed.* USA *debt.* The national debt is now the highest it has been as a percentage of GNP since World War II. (several sources)


 
The very same happened in Ireland when we got rid of Bertie!


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## Tinker Bell (2 May 2011)

Lex Foutish said:


> The very same happened in Ireland when we got rid of Bertie!


I didn't see the nightsky over Dublin 9 illuminated, nor the bloodstained duvet. But then, I doubt if OBL could hide in an under sink cupboard as the failed accountant did.


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## horusd (3 May 2011)

Apparently Obama and Clinton watched this attack live, including the killing of Osama, via a camera mounted on a Navy Seals head. I find this incredible. They have made this very personal and vindictive. Does this help? Leaders are supposed to lead, not act like Western sheriff's. They are descending into the same mentality that motivates terrorism, personal visceral hatred and vengence. I don't for a minute regret the passing of Bin Laden, but this is not how statesmen and women should act.


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## MrMan (3 May 2011)

horusd said:


> Apparently Obama and Clinton watched this attack live, including the killing of Osama, via a camera mounted on a Navy Seals head. I find this incredible. They have made this very personal and vindictive. Does this help? Leaders are supposed to lead, not act like Western sheriff's. They are descending into the same mentality that motivates terrorism, personal visceral hatred and vengence. I don't for a minute regret the passing of Bin Laden, but this is not how statesmen and women should act.



I'm sure they watch attacks of real national importance and this was one of them.


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## DB74 (3 May 2011)

Apparently it was the first time ever a Bin was taken out on a Bank Holiday Monday!


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## horusd (3 May 2011)

DB74 said:


> Apparently it was the first time ever a Bin was taken out on a Bank Holiday Monday!



Lol. Boy someone's quick off de mark with the jokes!


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## Betsy Og (3 May 2011)

While you would have to question all the collateral damage since the War on Terror began (Iraqi invasion probably unnecessary in retrospect), I do think its a day to celebrate. Fair play to the Americans they got their man.

I often agree with Michael Graham (the guy on George Hook) when he talks about Euroweenies. We're great for high moral ground but when some heads need to be busted its US guys putting their lives on the line.


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## csirl (3 May 2011)

> While you would have to question all the collateral damage since the War on Terror began (Iraqi invasion probably unnecessary in retrospect),


 
In fairness, Iraq has settled down a lot over the past couple of years - I dont think you'd find many Iraqis nowdays who would want Saddam back. Economy is improving, violent death rate has dramatically declined - they've something to look forward to. They've also had peaceful reasonablty fair elections. Dont underestimate the impact this has had on the region. I'd very much doubt that we'd be seeing the secular risings across the middle east and north africa if Iraq was not democratic. Wasnt this the original plan? That the regime change in Iraq, when bedded down, would prompt regime changes elsewhere in the region.


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## Shawady (3 May 2011)

csirl, I was thinking along those lines today.
I wonder if History will be kind to George W Bush and his war on terror policy?
With Bin Laden gone and the appetitie for change in north africa and the middle east, maybe the proactive policy undertaken by the USA after 9/11 might be seen in a more positive light if the world is a better place in 15-20 years time.


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## Dinging (3 May 2011)

I bet Osama regrets filling out his census form now!!!


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## horusd (3 May 2011)

Dinging said:


> I bet Osama regrets filling out his census form now!!!


 

Lol, and why should he? Isn't he in paradise surrounded by a few hundred virgins. I'd say he's too knackered to care!


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## csirl (3 May 2011)

horusd said:


> Lol, and why should he? Isn't he in paradise surrounded by a few hundred virgins.


 
Human shields?


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## Seagull (3 May 2011)

horusd said:


> Lol, and why should he? Isn't he in paradise surrounded by a few hundred virgins. I'd say he's too knackered to care!


Susan Boyle's a virgin. He could be exhausted from running away from them all and trying to find a secure hiding place.


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## Purple (3 May 2011)

Apparently his last words were “Navy SEALs! I need this like a hole in the head.”


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## DrMoriarty (3 May 2011)

You have to wonder, though.

10 years. Trillions of dollars. Thousands of soldiers dead. State-of-the-art technology. And the US military finally tracks Bin Laden down.

In his house.


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## horusd (3 May 2011)

I wonder tho, if there are virgins in paradise what happens to em after they have (ahem) done their duty with the latest jihadi ? And do the women jihadi's get a few hundred stud -muffins, just to fair like?


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## horusd (3 May 2011)

Purple said:


> Apparently his last words were “Navy SEALs! I need this like a hole in the head.”



Jeez these jokes are flyin thick and heavy. How are people so quick to come up with these?


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## Superman (4 May 2011)

horusd said:


> I wonder tho, if there are virgins in paradise what happens to em after they have (ahem) done their duty with the latest jihadi ? And do the women jihadi's get a few hundred stud -muffins, just to fair like?


The virgins/houris are "ever virginal" - that is to say, they "revirginise" after the each "session".  

There is no similar provision for women...


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## MrMan (4 May 2011)

DrMoriarty said:


> You have to wonder, though.
> 
> 10 years. Trillions of dollars. Thousands of soldiers dead. State-of-the-art technology. And the US military finally tracks Bin Laden down.
> 
> In his house.



It was because the Playstation network was down!


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## Purple (4 May 2011)

I find it bizarre that there are people out there who are critical of the Americans for not arresting him.
I can’t see any up-side of not killing him and disposing of his body as they did.

If they had arrested him they special forces on the ground would have put themselves under considerably more risk trying to detain him and get him to a helicopter (rather than just getting themselves out alive) and then what, a trial?
That would take years, cost tens of millions and there would have been an up-surge in terrorist attacks all over the world while the whole thing was going on.


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## Purple (4 May 2011)

csirl said:


> In fairness, Iraq has settled down a lot over the past couple of years - I dont think you'd find many Iraqis nowdays who would want Saddam back. Economy is improving, violent death rate has dramatically declined - they've something to look forward to. They've also had peaceful reasonablty fair elections. Dont underestimate the impact this has had on the region. I'd very much doubt that we'd be seeing the secular risings across the middle east and north africa if Iraq was not democratic. Wasnt this the original plan? That the regime change in Iraq, when bedded down, would prompt regime changes elsewhere in the region.



You may be right there csirl.


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## horusd (13 May 2011)

Another joke. Gardai (in a _certain_ Dublin suburb) found:

"Bin dossin"
"Bin drinkin"
"Bin druggin"
"Bin messin" 
"Bin scivin"
...
They have yet to find "Bin workin !"


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## RMCF (13 May 2011)

Purple said:


> I find it bizarre that there are people out there who are critical of the Americans for not arresting him.
> *I can’t see any up-side of not killing him and disposing of his body as they did.*
> 
> If they had arrested him they special forces on the ground would have put themselves under considerably more risk trying to detain him and get him to a helicopter (rather than just getting themselves out alive) and then what, a trial?
> That would take years, cost tens of millions and there would have been an up-surge in terrorist attacks all over the world while the whole thing was going on.



Because once you think that its too difficult to prosecute someone under proper law, then surely you are looking at the breakdown of everything.

The law can be difficult, long winded and expensive, but its the law and if you break it because its too much hassle, then you are, imho, at exactly the same level as the terrorist.


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## Purple (13 May 2011)

RMCF said:


> Because once you think that its too difficult to prosecute someone under proper law, then surely you are looking at the breakdown of everything.
> 
> The law can be difficult, long winded and expensive, but its the law and if you break it because its too much hassle, then you are, imho, at exactly the same level as the terrorist.



Exactly the same level?

Let’s think about that for a minute;
The leader of a sovereign state used his constitutionally derived powers to sent troops to capture or kill a man wanted for the mass murder of thousands of civilians in the USA, Yemen, Kenya and Tanzania etc. The Americans didn't use a missile or bomb in order to minimise civilian casualties and so that there would be no ambiguity about Bin Ladin's capture or death.
Where's the moral equivalence?

If you think that a state that has been attacked by an international terrorist organisation can act as if it was a domestic criminal act and not an act of war then you are delusional. I think this soft minded attitude is so prevalent in Ireland because we've let others bleed and die to defend our freedom since the foundation of our state. Maybe that's why we take it so much for granted.


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