# VRT Examples



## RSMike (5 Dec 2007)

Maybe people could post some real VRT examples here (CO2 figures available at , current new cars prices at www.carzone.ie)

Here is an example for the BMW 116i ( a fairly low CO2 emitting car for its engine size):


*BMW 116i *
*
*
*Before July 2008*
  Pre Tax                        €19,967
  VRT@25%                      €4,992
                                    €24,959                        
              VAT@21%                    €5,241
*Purchase Price           €30,200           *

*After July 2008*

  BMW 116i (CO2  139g/km)
  Pre Tax                        €19,967
  VRT@16%                      € 3,195
                                              €23,162
              VAT@21%                     €4.864
*            Purchase Price               €28,026*

The fact that the VRT changes are not coming in until July 1 could cause some interesting anomalies in the car market, e.g. Would garages be tempted to stock up in the short term on gas guzzlers, Where as anything environment friendly will not shift until July 1, Maybe garages will start discounting the lower emitting cars, ;-)


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## Butter (5 Dec 2007)

I will be changing my car in March next year.  I had been thinking of going for a Saab 93 Biofuel.  Could anyone advise me as to what difference the changes in VRT will make to the price of this car.  Would I be better to wait until The VRT changes to come into effect?
I'd love to know why, if Brain Cowen is pushing the "green" argument for car purchasing, why do Revenue continue to charge company car drivers less BIK the more miles they drive.  Would it not be much more logical to encourage the thousands of company car drivers to switch to less CO2 producing cars by charging them less BIK to drive these cars?  
Surely someone in the government must be aware of this contradiction for company car drivers.  I know that all around the country at the moment are company car drivers desperately driving as many miles as possible to push them over the next mileage band by the end of the year in order to pay less BIK.  Makes no sense to me!


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## RSMike (5 Dec 2007)

Theoretically you could see a big price reduction, The 9-3 Biopower 1.8T is currently liable for 30% VRT.

When it run on E85 fuel its CO2 emissions can drop into the level for the lowest VRT band (14%), however thats only if its run on E85 biofuel, if its run on normal unleaded its CO2 figure is 178, which I'm sure is how they will classify it, then VRT will drop only to 28%, so not much difference, :-(


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## Alan Moore (6 Dec 2007)

Hi Rsmike,

You might want to look at those calcs again. VRT is based on the open market selling price (OMSP). Effectively as far as I understand you effectively pay VRT on the VRT if you catch my drift. 

Say OMSP was 40,000 and VRT was 30%. VRT is 12,000 rather than 28K by 30%.


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## joejoe (6 Dec 2007)

Alan Moore said:


> Hi Rsmike,
> 
> You might want to look at those calcs again. VRT is based on the open market selling price (OMSP). Effectively as far as I understand you effectively pay VRT on the VRT if you catch my drift.
> 
> Say OMSP was 40,000 and VRT was 30%. VRT is 12,000 rather than 28K by 30%.


 
surely thats against the EU laws for free movement of goods, are we the only country that charges the insane tax?

joejoe


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## RMCF (6 Dec 2007)

joejoe said:


> surely thats against the EU laws for free movement of goods, *are we the only country that charges the insane tax*?
> 
> joejoe



Its not called 'Rip-off Ireland' for nothing.

As someone who lives in a border area of RoI I do 99% of my buying in NI. I cannot believe how people can afford to live and do all their dealings in RoI - the value for money in NI compared to the south is very noticeable.

Unfortunately I am still involved in the whole car/VRT nonsense as I have to own a southern reg car.


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## Formosa (6 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> Maybe people could post some real VRT examples here (CO2 figures available at , current new cars prices at www.carzone.ie)
> 
> Here is an example for the BMW 116i ( a fairly low CO2 emitting car for its engine size):
> 
> ...


 

Anyone got a link to where I can see the actual new VRT rates?


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## Butter (6 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> Theoretically you could see a big price reduction, The 9-3 Biopower 1.8T is currently liable for 30% VRT.
> 
> When it run on E85 fuel its CO2 emissions can drop into the level for the lowest VRT band (14%), however thats only if its run on E85 biofuel, if its run on normal unleaded its CO2 figure is 178, which I'm sure is how they will classify it, then VRT will drop only to 28%, so not much difference, :-(


 
Thanks for that. I had a look at a copy of the budget and couldn't see how he would classify the biofuel cars. Currently there's a VRT rebate of 50% on these cars so is it possible that they will actually end up more expensive? It doesn't defeat the point of driving these cars but does take away the financial incentive.


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## soy (6 Dec 2007)

Marg said:


> Thanks for that. I had a look at a copy of the budget and couldn't see how he would classify the biofuel cars. Currently there's a VRT rebate of 50% on these cars so is it possible that they will actually end up more expensive? It doesn't defeat the point of driving these cars but does take away the financial incentive.



reports yesterday said he was increasing the VRT rebate threshold on eco cars by 2500. Full details on how the whole system is going to work will not be released for some time - though Gormly is going to speak on the matter today in hte Dail.
My guess is that we will adopt the banding scale used in the UK.


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## Butter (6 Dec 2007)

soy said:


> reports yesterday said he was increasing the VRT rebate threshold on eco cars by 2500. Specific details on how the whole system is going to work will not be released for some time.
> My guess is that we will adopt the banding scale used in the UK.


 
Thanks Soy.  I don't think I'll be making a final decision until I see exactly how it pans out.  I had a quick look at the UK website, but it doesn't look as if they give a reduction for a biofuel car as they seem to classify it based on the CO2 emmissions when it's run on petrol.


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## gInvestor (6 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> Maybe people could post some real VRT examples here (CO2 figures available at , current new cars prices at www.carzone.ie)
> 
> Here is an example for the BMW 116i ( a fairly low CO2 emitting car for its engine size):
> 
> ...



Hi, can you tell me the VRT costs on an Emissions rating of 161 or point us at a list of the VRT costs according to the new budget. 

Emissions ratings can be retrieved @


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## amadan (6 Dec 2007)

RSMike, 
Your calculations have an error in how VRT is applied. I was not sure myself so I checked the SIMI website at
[broken link removed]
The critical line here is that
"Vehicle Registration Tax is applied ad valorem which means it is applied on a value which includes the tax itself"

So in your example above the VRT paid on a 116i is €7550 not €4992.
So you need to work backwards from the purchase price to arrive at the pre tax price as follows: (note VAT is not applied ad valorem)

Old VRT rate 25.00%
VAT rate 21.00%

Old purchase price €30,200.00
Deduct Old VRT €22,650.00
Deduct VAT €18,719.01

Pre Tax Price €18,719.01

Now apply VAT and the new VRT rate:

New VRT rate 20.00%
VAT rate 21.00%

Pre Tax Price €18,719.01
Add VAT €22,650.00
Add new VRT to arrive at new purchase price €28,312.50

gIvestor - the new VRT rates are at:
http://www.budget.gov.ie/2008/downloads/AnnexD.pdf


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## yop (6 Dec 2007)

New Rates:

http://www.budget.gov.ie/2008/downloads/AnnexD.pdf


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## OtherMe (6 Dec 2007)

Marg said:


> Thanks Soy. I don't think I'll be making a final decision until I see exactly how it pans out. I had a quick look at the UK website, but it doesn't look as if they give a reduction for a biofuel car as they seem to classify it based on the CO2 emmissions when it's run on petrol.


 
I'm also considering this car next year.  Maxol garage 2 mins down the road and the car actually runs better on biofuel (usually the other way around for most biofuel cars).  I can't believe they are basing the emissions on petrol.  What kind of incentive is that!  Clearly the governments idea of meeting our CO2 emission targets is to have everyone driving diesel.  We may have less CO2 but we'll all be going around wearing masks and goggles!


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## Butter (6 Dec 2007)

OtherMe said:


> I'm also considering this car next year. Maxol garage 2 mins down the road and the car actually runs better on biofuel (usually the other way around for most biofuel cars). I can't believe they are basing the emissions on petrol. What kind of incentive is that! Clearly the governments idea of meeting our CO2 emission targets is to have everyone driving diesel. We may have less CO2 but we'll all be going around wearing masks and goggles!


 
Agreed - I think that using the "green" argument for these changes is pure laughable.  There doesn't look to be any encouragement for driving cars which can run on biofuel.  As for company car BIK - the situation is just crazy as it encourages more driving.  Is there anybody sensible in the government looking at these issues?  I really thought having John Gormley as Environment Minister might make a difference but it doesn't seem to have changed a thing.


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## RSMike (6 Dec 2007)

amadan said:


> "Vehicle Registration Tax is applied ad valorem which means it is applied on a value which includes the tax itself"



Bloody Hell, thanks Amadan,  (Alan Moore pointed out my error also), so VRT is even worse than I suspected.

But not sure the new figure is correct either as the new VRT rate I reckon for a Car with a 139 CO2 figure is 16%?


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## paddyd (6 Dec 2007)

Marg said:


> Agreed - I think that using the "green" argument for these changes is pure laughable.  There doesn't look to be any encouragement for driving cars which can run on biofuel.



it wouldn't make people change to Biofuel necessarily, but it would certainly make them check what their engines CO2 emissions are.
Not meaning to sound like a tree-hugger, but I guess the government are looking to increase awareness. I don't have a clue what CO2 my engine emits, but I'll certainly know before the end of today.

The VRT and Road Tax changes will make diesels very popular.

For example, an Audi A3 1.8T is now over 225g, so is liable for €2k pa road tax in the higher band!
same story with a Mazda RX8 (268g/Km)

Whereas, on the other hand:
a BMW 320d is now in the same band as a 1.2 Micra or 1.4 Ford, €290 pa.


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## Butter (6 Dec 2007)

Hi Paddy, That example is very interesting. Looks like sales of diesel cars will be going up enormously next year.


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## RSMike (6 Dec 2007)

paddyd said:


> For example, an Audi A3 1.8T is now over 225g, so is liable for €2k pa road tax in the higher band!
> same story with a Mazda RX8 (268g/Km)
> 
> Whereas, on the other hand:
> a BMW 320d is now in the same band as a 1.2 Micra or 1.4 Ford, €290 pa.



I thought there was juat a flat 9.5% increase on road tax up to 2.5 litres, so the Audi 1.8 (assuming its the usual 1798cc or something like that) would be €576 pa and the 320D would be €641 pa ??


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## cashmni1 (6 Dec 2007)

No one in their right mind will pay €2000  road tax for a 1.8 ltr car. Bad co2 or not. The Automotive industry would be up in arms, and they would loose too much money on the sale of new cars. Everyone would buy older (pre '08) cars .


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## amadan (6 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> Bloody Hell, thanks Amadan, (Alan Moore pointed out my error also), so VRT is even worse than I suspected.
> 
> But not sure the new figure is correct either as the new VRT rate I reckon for a Car with a 139 CO2 figure is 16%?


 
RSMike, 
you're correct -16% is the rate so the new purchase price would be €26964.29.
I've made up a simple spreadsheet to calculate the new purchase price for a car - just enter the old and new VRT rates which apply for the car in question and the current purchase price. You can download it from link below - file is tiny so should only take seconds.

Link: http://download.yousendit.com/8836740E25BA0AD1


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## RSMike (6 Dec 2007)

Amadan, Thats excellent, very useful, thanks,


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## gInvestor (7 Dec 2007)

amadan said:


> RSMike,
> Your calculations have an error in how VRT is applied. I was not sure myself so I checked the SIMI website at
> [broken link removed]
> The critical line here is that
> ...



Thanks for the link. I have just noticed that the VRT payable on my car has dropped to 24%. 

BMW 320i Convertible has CO2 (g/km) of 161 according to 

This had a VRT cost of 30% which has now fallen to 24%. Since this is not coming in until next June - would there be a case to make when paying the VRT on the vechile now ?


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## paddyd (8 Dec 2007)

RSMike said:


> I thought there was juat a flat 9.5% increase on road tax up to 2.5 litres, so the Audi 1.8 (assuming its the usual 1798cc or something like that) would be €576 pa and the 320D would be €641 pa ??



Thats correct for 2nd hand cars, but not for new ones.

It will be interesting to see if this change makes any difference to the car sales in July.
A (VW) carsales friend says that they sell 85% of their new cars for the entire year before June 1st each year.

I imagine a lot of diesel sales, especially fleet cars (Mondeo's, S40's, 407's, etc) wil be put off until July if the tax was dropping from the old €600 band, into the new €290 band.

Also remember that if you are purchasing one of those diesels 2nd hand in a year or two, a Jan-Jun '08 car will still cost €600 to tax, and the one registered in July onwards will only cost €290.


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## upport (8 Dec 2007)

Yes paddyd and the person that buys new low emission car Jan- June in 2008 will pay higher tax each year going forward and will suffer most on trade in values because his car s/h will have to compete with same type low emission cars  that have lower tax every year because they were registered from July 2008.
This is outrageous and should not be implemented unless all low emission cars are treated equally.


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## nad (8 Dec 2007)

Hi just wondering if there is an irish site which lists the co2 emissions of new and old vehicles?


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