# Travel insurance claim refused...



## rob oyle (16 Sep 2015)

So the situation is - I booked my mother's travel arrangements (flying stateside on 29 June) and then arranged her annual travel insurance to begin on the previous day (28 June), just in case. Both arrangements were made about a month in advance, maybe even on the same day.

On 25 June, my mother broke her foot and was unable to travel. She cancelled the flight on the 26 June when she got back from the hospital and when she went to claim on her insurance, they said that since the timing of the cancellation fell outside the policy, they wouldn't be covering her. To me this makes no sense, since her policy was to cover her for travel from 28 June.

Anyone want to give me their considered views on this?


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

The policy wasn't in effect at the time of the event you're trying to claim for, they're right I'm afraid. You shouldn't time travel policies to the limit of when you travel.


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## rob oyle (16 Sep 2015)

Thanks Leo - does that mean if she didn't cancel, or just rang the airline on the day to cancel, she would have been able to make a successful claim?


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## cremeegg (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> The policy wasn't in effect at the time of the event you're trying to claim for, they're right I'm afraid. You shouldn't time travel policies to the limit of when you travel.



This may be correct legally, but it just goes to show what a confidence trick much of the insurance business is.

This man made a genuine attempt to purchase insurance. Now that there is a claim the insurance company is denying him. 

Leo says "you shouldn't time travel policies". What does that mean, do you have to have a solicitor to buy travel insurance.


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

cremeegg said:


> This may be correct legally, but it just goes to show what a confidence trick much of the insurance business is.



I'm no fan of the insurance industry, but that's a bit harsh. It's far from a confidence trick, it's clearly laid out in the terms and conditions of such policies. You get two weeks cooling-off period to review those T&Cs.



cremeegg said:


> This man made a genuine attempt to purchase insurance. Now that there is a claim the insurance company is denying him.
> 
> Leo says "you shouldn't time travel policies". What does that mean, do you have to have a solicitor to buy travel insurance.



Like all insurance policies, you can only claim for events that occur during the insured period. If I took out a new motor policy and requested the start date to be in a months time, why should I expect the insurance company to pay out if I have an accident the next day?

For travel insurance, you need the policy to commence in advance of the day you fly out, so you are covered for events such as the above.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> The policy wasn't in effect at the time of the event you're trying to claim for, they're right I'm afraid. You shouldn't time travel policies to the limit of when you travel.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> Like all insurance policies, you can only claim for events that occur during the insured period. If I took out a new motor policy and requested the start date to be in a months time, why should I expect the insurance company to pay out if I have an accident the next day?


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## rob oyle (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> For travel insurance, you need the policy to commence in advance of the day you fly out, so you are covered for events such as the above.



I'm hoping you've misunderstood my first message - my mother had not begun her travels that the insurance was for and isn't claiming for hospital care or anything... she was unable to travel on the 29th and the insurance started on the 28th. Because she had been advised that she was unable to travel before then, she cancelled the flight on the 26th. This is the only element of her travels that she is caliming for as her accommodation arrangements could be changed.

Gerard123, no, there is/was no withheld information on this - everything is upfront and above board.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Lads, everyone calm down.  I think people need to be a little clearer in their questions in relation to dates.  

If you go to purchase travel insurance and it asks you for the dates of travel and you state they are 28th June until 14th July and you have purchased this cover on the 1st June, then any insured event that occurs in the period leading up to travel from June 1st would be covered.


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

Gerard123 said:


> I don't agree with this.  Your mothers broken foot is not the event you are claiming for so I don't see how the timing of your mothers broken foot is important as long as you booked the travel insurance before it happened.
> 
> The event is the incurrence of the travel costs on 29th June, on the basis that she cannot fly on 29th, which is after the start date (28th). The reason why she cannot travel is the broken foot which occurred after you booked the travel insurance.



But the mother's broken foot is the event that resulted in the cancellation. It is the cause that is the significant event as defined in the policy, and this occurred before the policy came into effect. In this case, the cancellation was even processed before the policy came into effect.



Gerard123 said:


> Suggest that you read the terms and conditions closely and reject the insurance company approach.



Many travel policies here are underwritten by ACE, their terms & conditions are available [broken link removed]. They advise when taking out a single trip policy, that the policy should start at the time of booking the trip, or the date you take out the policy, not just before you travel. Only events that result in the curtailment or cancellation of a trip that occur within the policy period are covered.


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

peteb said:


> Lads, everyone calm down.  I think people need to be a little clearer in their questions in relation to dates.
> 
> If you go to purchase travel insurance and it asks you for the dates of travel and you state they are 28th June until 14th July and you have purchased this cover on the 1st June, then any insured event that occurs in the period leading up to travel from June 1st would be covered.



Unfortunately in this case, the OP purchased an annual policy to come into effect on the day before she was due to fly out.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Sorry Leo I must skipped over that.  

Then yes OP you are stuck.  You chose the purchase date of the policy. You should always chose the date you book to travel as the start date


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## cremeegg (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> I'm no fan of the insurance industry, but that's a bit harsh. It's far from a confidence trick, it's clearly laid out in the terms and conditions of such policies. You get two weeks cooling-off period to review those T&Cs.



The previous posters argue the ins and outs of issue, but a consumer who buys an insurance product should have a reasonable expectation that they are covered, and not have to be on top of all these intricacies. 

As for the terms and conditions, well I have never seen a set of T&Cs where anything was clear!


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## cremeegg (16 Sep 2015)

peteb said:


> Sorry Leo I must skipped over that.
> 
> Then yes OP you are stuck.  You chose the purchase date of the policy. You should always chose the date you book to travel as the start date



So its a case of, you didn't know that, tough luck! Is that reasonable?


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

cremeegg said:


> So its a case of, you didn't know that, tough luck! Is that reasonable?



What different people consider reasonable can vary widely. When taking out insurance, you need to ask enough questions to ensure the cover you are getting is appropriate for your needs and also read the T&Cs to make sure you're happy with them. If you contact an insurer and request an annual policy, to commence on a date of your choosing, I think it's entirely reasonable that that is exactly what they will quote you for.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Its 100% reasonable.  Its not entitled the commencement date of travel, it would be entitled the commencement date of cover.   It the exact same as taking a motor policy out from 18th September but you bought the car today and decided to drive it, and crashed.  no cover.


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## cremeegg (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> What different people consider reasonable can vary widely. When taking out insurance, you need to ask enough questions to ensure the cover you are getting is appropriate for your needs and also read the T&Cs to make sure you're happy with them.



But you don't know what your needs will be in advance, thats why you buy insurance. You can't ask questions about everything. You buy insurance for your holiday, you expect to covered.


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## rob oyle (16 Sep 2015)

Thanks all, and thanks for your support Cremeegg. We will be challenging this anyway, if there are any developments I'll put them up here.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

cremeegg said:


> But you don't know what your needs will be in advance, thats why you buy insurance. You can't ask questions about everything. You buy insurance for your holiday, you expect to covered.



but the problem here is that cover was bought from a specific date and the accident happened before the policy was in force.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

rob oyle said:


> Thanks all, and thanks for your support Cremeegg. We will be challenging this anyway, if there are any developments I'll put them up here.



I'm sorry but you are completely wasting your time as you havent a leg to stand on in terms of complaining.  You incepted cover from a specific date and the incident occurred before cover existed.  The fault is your own, rough as that seems.  

Had your mother have broken her foot on the 28th of June this would have been covered.


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## Bronte (16 Sep 2015)

rob oyle said:


> She cancelled the flight on the 26 June when she got back from the hospital and when she went to claim on her insurance, they said that since the timing of the cancellation fell outside the policy, they wouldn't be covering her.



Goodness me this is so tricky.  It seems to me she therefore should not have cancelled prior to the 28th June to be covered.  28th June being the start date of cover.

Let's say the policy starts on 1st June.  She could then cancel any day in June to be covered, but she could not cancel in May.  That what it seems to mean that these annual policies are about.

I guess it makes sense.  Let's take her booking a holiday next year 2016, in July.  But breaks her leg in June, within the annual period of the insurance.  Would she be covered then I wonder.


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## Slim (16 Sep 2015)

Leo said:


> Many travel policies here are underwritten by ACE, their terms & conditions are available [broken link removed]. They advise when taking out a single trip policy, that the policy should start at the time of booking the trip, or the date you take out the policy, not just before you travel. Only events that result in the curtailment or cancellation of a trip that occur within the policy period are covered.


 
Leo, my reading of the ACE t&cs suggests that an event that occurs after the policy is bought or taken out which leads to cancellation is covered, para 1.4
*1.4 WHEN COVER OPERATES FOR A HOLIDAY*
i. Insurance cover for Cancellation under
*Part III Section 1 – Cancellation, Curtailment and Rearrangement*
begins when a
*Holiday *is booked, if this Policy is in force at the time of booking, or _when you purchase this
Policy. (my italics and underlining)_


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Slim said:


> Leo, my reading of the ACE t&cs suggests that an event that occurs after the policy is bought or taken out which leads to cancellation is covered, para 1.4
> *1.4 WHEN COVER OPERATES FOR A HOLIDAY*
> i. Insurance cover for Cancellation under
> *Part III Section 1 – Cancellation, Curtailment and Rearrangement*
> ...



But the policy wasnt purchased until 28th June as stated by OP.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Bronte said:


> Goodness me this is so tricky.  It seems to me she therefore should not have cancelled prior to the 28th June to be covered.  28th June being the start date of cover.
> 
> .



Incorrect.  Its not the date that you cancel the trip, its the date in this case the accident occured that caused the cancellation.  And they would look for confirmation from the doctor, etc.


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## Monbretia (16 Sep 2015)

I think is as clear as can be, she is not covered.   The policy should have been taken out from the time the holiday was booked to ensure cover from that date, I have never come across anyone asking for the policy to start the day before the trip.  The only thing that might have been handy here was if the agent selling the policy pointed out that there will be no cover until the start date of the policy, I imagine any experienced seller would have mentioned this.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Gerard 123, you can't cite a section for choosing when you take out cover.  A policy has to be in force and if you are asked online what date you would like to put cover in force from, that is the date cover operates from.  Its an annual policy so there is no confusion as to whether it means the travel dates.  Its clearly the date you intend cover to start. 

OP also states that he chose the day before she was travelling so he was aware you could chose a commencement date of cover that wasnt the date travel begins on.  You may go ahead and accept to take out a travel policy but its not "purchased" until the date you choose to effect cover from.  You are reading it from a point of searching for ambiguity which isn't there.   The purchase date is the date you ask for cover to begin from.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Gerard123, you can take it that I am only too familiar with how terms and conditions work.  However there is no cover in force until you purchase a policy.  And the policy only commences on a certain date.  So T & C's are not relevant here. 

What you are stating is not legal fact.  Its akin to an item wrongly priced in a shop, and it being an offer to treat and not a contract.  

If you look at the very first post you can see for yourself that the OP said it was an annual policy.   

I'm not offering a view.  I'm offering fact.  The operative date of cover is the date selected, and that is the purchase date.

Take a look at this screen shot from Blue Insurance as an example.  It's quite specific.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

.


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

Gerard123 said:


> The policy link provided by Leo on the previous page makes a clear distinction between the date of purchase from which cancellation is covered, and the cover period for other claims which in this case is 28th.  Under that policy cancellation is covered from date of purchase.



The date of purchase applies to single trip policies only, not annual.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

Gerard123, you need to be more thorough in your reading of these things.  Leo posted a link to Ace due to them writing a large volume of business.  The OP never said who mothers annual policy was with.  So there is no goal posts being changed here.

But just to pander to you, 
Period of insurance is defined as:  For annual multi-trip cover: The period of cover between and inclusive of the dates shown as Effective From: and To: on the Policy Schedule commencing at 00.01 or any later time the Policy Schedule is issued on the earlier date shown and finishing at 24.00 on the later date shown.

Where are you getting your definition of purchase from?  In this instance it's the operative date of cover as selected by the client.  Best example was my earlier motor analogy.


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## Leo (16 Sep 2015)

For completeness, single trip cover is listed as:



> *Period of Insurance*
> 
> For single trip cover:
> The period of cover commencing at 00.01 or any later time the Policy Schedule is
> ...



That's where the date purchased comes into play.


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## Gerard123 (16 Sep 2015)

.


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## peteb (16 Sep 2015)

We've all read 1.4.  But purchase date is considered operative date of cover for insurance.  If you want to avail of a cooling off period, its 14 days from when cover began.  Not when you paid for cover.


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## rob oyle (16 Sep 2015)

Hello all... the plot thickens. I hadn't the full details and I now am of the opinion that she is covered.

Policy and flights booked in May, as per before. Injury happened on 25th June, as before. However, she didn't cancel until the 28th, being the same day as the policy began *and* the same date as when she was advised not to travel by her GP (these details already shared with the insurer as part of the claim). Therefore, the event that caused the cancellation, being the doctor's advice not to travel, was within the limits of the policy. My only worry is that the event which directed the doctor for her not to travel occurred before the policy coverage began. However she was considering when she was injured and thought it was only a sprain so shouldn't the influencing factor in the claim be the doctor's advice?


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## peteb (17 Sep 2015)

You said earlier she cancelled on the 26th.  All smells a little dodgy to me.  But it wouldnt apply until doctors advices not to travel.  That said he has to advise not to travel medically.  She can't just cancel cos she thinks it'll be uncomfortable.


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## Gerard123 (17 Sep 2015)

peteb said:


> All smells a little dodgy to me.


Agree!


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## Leo (17 Sep 2015)

That is an interesting development, Rob, I think key now is to review the policy documentation provided. Hopefully they won't have a clause that excludes illnesses/ injuries that occur prior to the policy coming into effect. For annual policies, they usually come into effect just after midnight on the morning of the from date. But all hinges on the dates.


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