# Help with CRO



## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

Hi

I filed my CRO return and I received it back. The reason for that see below:

   "_The accounts attached  predate the made up to date by more than 9 months. To retain this financial year-end you must make your annual return up to 30/09/2009 at the latest. The late filing penality will be EUR268 in addition to the fee of EUR40 – Total fee EUR308. Alternatively, you can change your financial year to cover a later period. Or you may file this annual return with no accounts attached but attaching a form B73 to change your ARD to later date._"


I attached accounts prepared for a period of 24/06/08-31/12/08 (first business year). ARD is 24/12/2009. I was in oppinion that my year end is 31 Dec and I want to keep it. Please advise what should I do now as I do not want to be late with my filing. Any help appriciated.


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

Maybe I did write something wrong in form B1?
I wrote:

Return made up to 24/12/09
Financial year        24/06/08-31/12/08

Actually I a confused about ARD- is it supposed to be companies year end? I thought companies automatically have year end 31/12


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## Gervan (24 Jan 2010)

ARD is the Annual Return Date, not a year end. 
A Company can have any year end. As you started trading on 24/06/08 your default year end would be 12 months after that. 
If you wanted your year end to be 31/12/08, returns would have been due, as your BI response letter said, within 9 months of the year end, so if you want to stick to that, returns would already be late.

As returns must be in within 30 days of the ARD, you really have no time to prepare an alternative set of accounts to a later date.


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

Thanks for reply. Then what would be the best I can do in this situation?


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

Really confused. I understand that I can change ARD to later date (any date up to the 6 months) and I have to make annual return for the period from 24/06/08-23/06/09?
And what about option to change financial year? How can I change it? Can I change it to 31/12/2009? But then there will be 17 months in my set of accounts .Please help


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## RonanC (24 Jan 2010)

What date was the company incorporated? 

A financial year is not always 12months as stated by Gervan, your first financial accounts must not be more than 18 months from incorporation. You must prepare accounts from incorporation and not from the date you commenced trading.


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

incorporation date is 24/06/08


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## RonanC (24 Jan 2010)

One suggestion is to prepare accounts from 24/06/08 to 30/06/09 and file these with B1 made up to 24/12/09. 

Then prepare a set of accounts from 01/07/09 to 31/12/09 and file these with another B1 made up to 30/09/10 anytime between 30/09/10 and 28/10/10 *ensuring you tick the NO box on the B1* 

You will then have an ARD of 30/09 of every year and your 31/12 acc year end will be bang on the nine month limit giving you maximum time to file in the future. 

There is no need to use a B73 to do this.


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

but I will not have a time to prepare new accounts to 30/06/09


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## RonanC (24 Jan 2010)

If you keep your accounts as they are 24/06/08 - 31/12/08 and file these with B1 dated 24/12/09 you will be subject to a large late fee as you know and you will also have to audit the accounts. 

The B73 option doesnt really help that much as it only allows you to extend your current ARD by no more than 6 months which would give you 24/06/10 as your next ARD. You will then have to have accounts which are no more than 9 months old at that time to the B1. You dont file any accounts when filing a B1 & B73. You could in theory file two sets of accounts with the 24/06/10 B1 (24/06/08 - 31/12/08 & 01/01/09 - 31/12/09) but you cannot amalgamate financial periods and you cannot leave a financial period out.


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

oh my god so complicated


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

so the best is to prepare new set of accounts to 30/06/09 in 1-2 days??? Then I will not need any ARD changes?Am I right?


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

really sorry for my silly questions but I have to understand everything to avoid more serious mistakes. If I decide to extend ARD to 24/06/10 then I will need to prepare accounts to lets say 31/12/09 (one set 24/06/08-30/06/09 and second set 01/07/09-31/12/09) Is it correct?


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## papervalue (24 Jan 2010)

someone might clarify the correct position for above poster.

my view would be:

1. 24/12/09 ard - as we have now passed 28 days from filing date you can not now file a b73 to change date.

2. have to go back to 30/09/09 ard date on return and pay late fee and these will have to be audit accounts.(to meet 9 month rule)

3. accounts 01/09/09 to 31/12/09 will also have to be audit and filed by 28/10/10.

4. accounts 01/01/10 to 31/12/10- could be non audit once above are audit and file by 28/10/11

or 

edit accounts year end to 30/03/09 and file as fast as possible and might get away with it( I think on letter you got you may have 14days to correct the error) i say they allow you change year end but not file a b73 as you are now late

ask your accountant to confirm


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## Tricky one (24 Jan 2010)

on the letter is stated date 15/01 and they are giving me time to resubmit  within 14 days.


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## papervalue (24 Jan 2010)

Tricky one said:


> on the letter is stated date 15/01 and they are giving me time to resubmit within 14 days.


 

not sure to me the only way to correct without getting an audit and late fee is do accounts up to 30/03/09 to meet 9 month rule and keep ard 24/12/09

in future do 01/04/09 to 31/12/09 accounts and bring ard to 30/09/10 and after this normal year end would be 31/12

other's on the board might have a different view to me- some more might give answers before night is out but regardless if doing above get accounts to company office before close of business next friday


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## DB74 (25 Jan 2010)

papervalue said:


> not sure to me the only way to correct without getting an audit and late fee is do accounts up to 30/03/09 to meet 9 month rule and keep ard 24/12/09
> 
> in future do 01/04/09 to 31/12/09 accounts and bring ard to 30/09/10 and after this normal year end would be 31/12
> 
> other's on the board might have a different view to me- some more might give answers before night is out but regardless if doing above get accounts to company office before close of business next friday


 
+1


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## Tricky one (25 Jan 2010)

Thank you guys for all your help. Just called this morning to CRO and now I am going to extend my ARD to 24/03/10 and prepare accounts 24/06/08 to 30/06/09. Then I will have accounts not older than 9 months. And next ARD will be 24/03/11. Now I have just one last question - do I need state that accounts are prepared up to the 24/06/09 or round up to 30/06/09? If I use rounded up date then I will exeed 9 months by 6 days?


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## RonanC (25 Jan 2010)

Your accounts will be *less* than 9 months from your made up to date 24/03/10(B1) - 30/6/09(acc) so you will have no worries making your accounts up to 30/06/09

On the B1 you must state Financial year 24/06/08 to 30/06/09 (as long as your accounts match these dates)


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## Tricky one (25 Jan 2010)

oh you are right,  will be less by 6 days not more . Thanks and thanks again everybody.


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## DB74 (25 Jan 2010)

Tricky one said:


> Thank you guys for all your help. Just called this morning to CRO and now I am going to extend my ARD to 24/03/10 and prepare accounts 24/06/08 to 30/06/09.


 
Notwithstanding that the CRO told you to do this, my understanding is that you CANNOT extend an ARD from 2009 into 2010.

You will still need to file a return with an ARD of 24/12/2009


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## RonanC (25 Jan 2010)

DB74 said:


> Notwithstanding that the CRO told you to do this, my understanding is that you CANNOT extend an ARD from 2009 into 2010.


 
You can


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## bond-007 (25 Jan 2010)

Best of luck with it all.


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## DBRAN (25 Jan 2010)

DB74 said:


> Notwithstanding that the CRO told you to do this, my understanding is that you CANNOT extend an ARD from 2009 into 2010.
> 
> You will still need to file a return with an ARD of 24/12/2009



I believe DB74 is right. 

You will have to file a B1 return on the current ARD of 24/12/09 (within 28 days) whether you extend out the ARD or not.

Kind Regards

Dbran


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## RonanC (25 Jan 2010)

DBRAN said:


> I believe DB74 is right.
> 
> You will have to file a B1 return on the current ARD of 24/12/09 (within 28 days) whether you extend out the ARD or not.
> 
> ...


 
B1 dated 24/12/09 & B73 to extend out to new date.


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## DB74 (25 Jan 2010)

I just contacted the CRO about this and I am wrong here.

The filing of a B1 with a B73 in Dec-09 fulfils your statutory obligation to file an annual return in 2009 even though no accounts are annexed with the return.

I always thought that at least one annual return per calendar year HAD to have a set of accounts attached (apart from 1st annual return) so have to hold my hand up here and admit I didn't know that.

RonanC: 1
Me:       0


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## RonanC (25 Jan 2010)

Ah now DB74, theres no point scoring here 

We all learn something new everyday and thats the great thing about this little world


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## papervalue (25 Jan 2010)

How can the company office allow the B73 date to be changed to-day when this person is already gone beyond the 28days filing to change existing ard date 24/12/09

The normal thing is you file any date after the 28 days you are late(Manual filing) and they will not entertain you at all in companies office


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## RonanC (25 Jan 2010)

Documents were filed with CRO and sent back for amendment, the CRO allows 14 days to amend documents


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## Gervan (25 Jan 2010)

How do the CRO returns tie in with CT returns? If a return was made to Revenue for the period to 31/12/08, would this now have to be amended? Can the company have one year end for Revenue and another for CRO?


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## Tricky one (26 Jan 2010)

oh god, I did not think about CT, I have filed accounts with 31/12/08  year end and now I extended ARD to 24/03/10. What will happen now?


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## Tricky one (26 Jan 2010)

I filed CT in 21st September 09, can I resubmit CT as my right year end is 24/06/09, I still have 9 months to file it? Am I right?


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