# tenants refusing to leave



## elainem (6 Nov 2006)

My tenants are refusing to leave. They are in the property for two weeks short of two years. I gave them more than the required notice. They have until 11th Jan to move out. 

The house needs urgent attention for damp and possible leak. I intend selling the house afterwards. They are now refusing to allow builder and architect in to assess the property. 

My solicitor has written to them asking them to confirm that they will leave by 11th Jan. If they don't then I will possibly find it difficult to get another builder to do the job within a short space of time.

Any thoughts? Or has anybody else had this problem? 

Thanks.


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## delgirl (6 Nov 2006)

Are you registered with the PRTB - see [broken link removed] for details of the 2004 residential tenancies act.  One of the tenant's obligations is to allow access for repairs and routine inspection (Tenancy Obligations Part 2).

If they won't let your builder and architect in, go with them and let them in yourself.  Inform the tenants in advance, in writing that you will enter the property on X date at X time to carry out inspection for urgent repair work.  Quote the relevant section of the Residential Tenancies Act (Tenant's obligations) and state that you have informed the PRTB of the situation.

If they are already indicating that they might not leave by 11th January, inform the PRTB and check that your [broken link removed] is in compliance with the act.


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## panathon (18 Nov 2006)

If you have given them appropiate notice to evict, just go in, from personal experience, the guards will resolutely! refuse involvement intil sombebody gets violent.


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## RainyDay (18 Nov 2006)

What does your solicitor advise?


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## dad (20 Nov 2006)

Get in touch with the PRTB immediately. It will take at least 14-16 weeks for a dispute resolution to be heard.Huge backlog at present.

You should also consider contacting the council or corporation as an avenue, houses must be fit to live in. You are in breach of the housing std's act 1994.

I have been in this situation also, law is very poor in protection of landlord where tenant refuses to move. Elections are coming, lobby your politician to change the law.


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## Brianp (20 Nov 2006)

elainem said:


> My tentants are refusing to leave. They are in the property for two weeks short of two years. I gave them more than the required notice. They have until 11th Jan to move out. The house needs urgent attention for damp and possible leak. I intend selling the house afterwards. They are now refusing to allow builder and architect in to assess the property. My solicitor has written to them asking them to confirm that they will leave by 11th Jan. If they don't then I will possibly find it difficult to get another builder to do the job within a short space of time. Any thoughs? Or has anybody else had this problem? Thanks.


 
I would get the locks changed after the 11th January.I would also inform the guards if you intending changing the locks if you think it might get a liitle nasty.


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## RainyDay (20 Nov 2006)

Brianp said:


> I would get the locks changed after the 11th January.I would also inform the guards if you intending changing the locks if you think it might get a liitle nasty.


This is absolutely terrible advice and liable to end up with you in the wrong end of a court hearing. The Gardai have no role in disputes like this, unless there is a court order for eviction. Changing the locks with a strong legal position leaves you very exposed.

Consult your solicitor.


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## money man (21 Nov 2006)

Its a tricky one but im afraid that changing the locks would indeed be a mistake at this point. You should defo be registered with the PRTB. Your tenants are prob very aware of their rights . From previous posts i believe they pay a very high rent and may be disgruntled with sub standard accomodation and be ready to take legal action? Maybe not and are just looking for some sort of compensation for having to find a new place? I believe that thats not an easy task in Dublin at the moment.  If you are not registered with the PRTB then you may have a problem now. Having posted here before im sure you were advised to do so. if you go on their website and read some of the cases decided and general information you should get a good idea of what to do . otherwise you should leave it with your solicitor and keep the pressure on him/her to tell you your options.


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## elainem (21 Nov 2006)

Thanks everyone for your replies.

My tenants are still refusing to leave. I have written to them on three occasions, my solicitor has written to them once. I have advised them to bring any issues they have with the termination of the tenancy to the PRTB, they haven't done so.  Now they are refusing to answer my calls, letters, or to even answer the door to me.  The accommodation they are in is actually excellent, except for kitchen area which is sodden with damp.  I would have got the work done on this much earlier if they had let me know the situation. However, they have always had problems with me entering the house to inspect it, and have never notified me of problems until they became urgent. The architect believes there is groundwater coming up from below, and has stated the house needs urgent attention, with possible foundation damage if its not done. A builder has been arranged for second week in January. A letter has been sent to the tenants to this effect, and no response has been received. I am up in Dublin on Thursday, and intend to call into the PRTB to start the ball rolling. If they don't move out in Jan, then I loose a builder, which has been difficult to get as the jobs on the house is messy but quite a small one - taking about eight weeks in total.


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## delgirl (21 Nov 2006)

elainem said:


> If they don't move out in Jan, then I loose a builder, which has been difficult to get as the jobs on the house is messy but quite a small one - taking about eight weeks in total.


Go ahead with the job as planned.  You have given the tenants adequate notice and informed them of the nature and necessity of the building work.

At the moment it appears that they are controlling the situation, you must take back control and enter the premises when required, i.e. with builder or architect to plan work etc. and act as if they are leaving as per the notice you have given them.


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## derryman (21 Nov 2006)

Elainem

in previous mails, you stated that your tenants had a lease that runs till June 2007, you also inferred that due to fears about your property losing value before you had a chance to sell you would like to sell it in February 2007, whilst your property might well have some damp problems, I don't think you are really in a position to evict tenants without some adequate compensation (I would suspect that your desire to sell rather than care for the property or the tenants with a valid lease is behind your eviction)

Then again perhaps I am wrong but the email trails are quite revealing...


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## elcato (21 Nov 2006)

One of the accepted conditions with the PRTB of moving tenants out is if you want to sell afaik so I think he's OK on that one.


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## derryman (21 Nov 2006)

Elcato - I think you will find that the OK to evict if owner needs to sell only applies after a valid lease has expired (ie within the four year period that the tenant can choose to stay after six months) - PRTB will concur...


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## delgirl (21 Nov 2006)

derryman said:


> Elcato - I think you will find that the OK to evict if owner needs to sell only applies after a valid lease has expired (ie within the four year period that the tenant can choose to stay after six months) - PRTB will concur...


The act reads as follows:

"The landlord can terminate without specifying grounds during the first 6 months, but once a tenancy has lansted 6 months, the landlord will be able to terminate the tenancy (known as a 'Part 4 tenancy) during the following 3.5 years only if any of the following apply:

- the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
- the dwelling is no longer suited to the occupants' accommodation needs (e.g. overcrowded)
- the landlord needs to sell the dwelling in the next 3 months
- the landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation
- the landlord intends to refurbish the dwelling
- the landlord intends to change the business use of the dwelling."

Elainem was entitled to serve notice on her tenants and is not required to pay any form of compensation.


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## derryman (21 Nov 2006)

I love this country, the gubberment implements a half baked piece of legislation and everyone is suddenly an expert, but experience counts

the PRTB sets out minimum guidelines for tenancies that cannot be opted out of, if a landlord should offer a binding lease that offers additional terms then all bets are off (tenants cannot be evicted until lease expiry)

The PRTB act makes no recommendation about how a landlord gets rid of a tenant who does not want to leave - if they pay the rent and don't damage the property then it a six month minimum wait and big legal bills

BTW under no circumstances - change locks, remove possessions or take back premises by force - where the PRTB has been spectacularly successful is in *fining* / issue proceedings against landlords that do such stupid acts

Finally the PRTB act is a poor copy of existing UK legislation, whereby UK tenants are only ever offered a six month lease - so why do Irish landlords insist still upon one year leases - kinda makes the PRTB act a bit redundant - solution is compensate the tenants for any breach of lease.


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## elcato (21 Nov 2006)

> - the landlord needs to sell the dwelling in the next 3 months


So is that the next 3 months after the initial 6 months or anytime but needs to sell within 3 months. Bit vague but as you say the OP can stop lease if refurb are needed so they are within their rights.


> so why do Irish landlords insist still upon one year leases


Presuambly cos its a two way street where they want a tenant that they like to stay a further year.


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## elainem (22 Nov 2006)

Hi! Everyone and Derryman, thanks for your replies.  Derryman, there is no lease in place until June 2007. They signed the Lease, but I didn't, as the tenants has been late paying the rent on a few occasions. I originally intended to refurbish the house before June 2008 when planning permission (it is a listed building) runs out. However, as I have never (except in last three months) been able to gain access to the property for inspection purposes, as did not realise the extent of the damp problem in the back kitchen. My architect has told me there is groundwater coming up through the floor, there is also mold on the kitchen floor and dry rot in the walls of the kitchen. I am dependent on the rent E2,300 a month to live on as I currently do not work, and due to health problems it is unlikely I will work in the near future. _I also have two young children to support. I have been advised to reduce the stress in my life, I need some cash, and so I want to sell the property. However, it will require some work to damp in kitchen before I feel I could sell it, as I feel potential buyers might be put off by the state of damp in the kitchen area, though the rest of the house is in excellent condition. I did suggest to the tenants that if the work could be carried out while they were in the house, then I was happy to leave them there until June 2007. However, the work is now urgent, a crack has appeared in the outside wall of kitchen area. There is an increasing amount of mould on kitchen floor - which my architect says is detrimental to health. If the tenants stayed in the house it means that they would be without a kitchen for approx eight weeks. They did not want to do this, but still don't want to move out. They can't have it everyway. In fact, way back in September I informed them that it was likely they would have to move out. I gave them notice on 31st October to move out on 11th Jan. They were in the property 1 year and 11 months at that stage.  I have given them way more than the notice required. I also informed them that they could approach the PRTB if they had a problem with termination notice and they haven't done so. What else can I do? I cannot enter the property, even with advance notice, as they have changed the locks. After this experience, I really just want to ged rid of the house - and I need the cash._


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## jprender (22 Nov 2006)

I really pity you in this situation. 

I was in similar and have unfortunately found out that there is no cheap way of getting them out. Lots of time, lots of stress and lots of money. All the while, your scumbag tenant is living in your property and not paying you any rent.

Even when they move you will probably get some sob story about how they are of limited means and can not pay the back-rent. Courts love to hear this and feel very sorry for the tenant.

In a nutshell, landlords in this situation get screwed over big-time. No matter how good you have been to the tenants. Leases are not worth the paper they are written on either. If a tenant does not want to honour it, you have little or no recourse.

Too many do-gooders in this country. Or maybe I shoud be a little fairer than that and say too many scumbags taking advantage of the do-gooder's intentions. There ar a lot of bad landlords out there too and tenants do need protection in these instances.

I know it is the wrong thing to say or do, but looking back on it, I wish I had given him a good bashing. I had a solicitor who did advise me that getting physical is exactly what they are looking for. They can then have you on assault charges and pick up a little more compensation.

Anyway, thats my rant over with !!

Best of luck and hold on tight.


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## money man (22 Nov 2006)

Elaine them changing the locks is a breach of your agreement with them im sure. maybe you should get your solicitor to write to them about this to document this. You are entitled to access to you property upon reasonable request.
Maybe you need to get them into court asap. maybe now that they have locked you out you could skip the PRTB?
They sound very unreasonable but dont despair. next time you go in bring your kids and carry lots of bags and turn on the tears.....I know some people have a heart. tell them about you plight. I feel sorry for you in this situation. they are hardly scumbags though if they are able to find 2300 per month to pay rent even though its sometimes late!...maybe go in and discuss your situation with them. they might think your loaded and will offer them a big whack of money to leave. if you explain to them your plight what will you loose..they may just leave. By the way if they are not due to leave until january what are you worried about. im sure they will?


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## JQ2002 (22 Nov 2006)

If I were I your shoes I would bring my Solc along and hang around outside and enter the house when one of the tenants is going in. I think you should bring with you letters of eviction detailing when notice to leave was given and when it will expire. Keep everything cool, etc.


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## Swallows (22 Nov 2006)

I see they have changed the locks, are they now squatting? are they claiming squatters rights? Have they paid any rent recently?


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## elainem (24 Nov 2006)

Hi! Everyone,

Thanks for your replies. I have just found out a very n.b. piece of info. for all you landlords who may be facing the same situation as myself.  Apparently my notice of termination is not valid, according to PRTB, even though I actually gave three weeks more than the required notice period, and I stated two reasons for the termination of tenancy. However, I omitted to notify the tenants in my Notice of Termination that they could apply for 'relief' in Part V of the Tenancy Act, i.e. that they could apply to the PRTB to waive the Notice of Termination and continue with the tenancy.  Apparently, I should have stated in my Notice of Termiantion that they had twenty-eight days to apply to the PRTB for this relief. It truly is a minefield. I have had to send out another Notice of Termination, informing them of their rights, which now brings the termination date to 21st Jan. My builder was supposed to start the previous week. I still don't know if they will leave on that date. However, apparently if they don't apply to the PRTB for 'relief' then they haven't a leg to stand on, so to speak, in regard to legitimately remaining in the property. However, the PRTB has told me that it could take ten weeks to get them out of the property after the termination date as this is their backlog time. However, if my architect rights a report stating that delay will result in damage to the dwelling, then they would move my case up the backlog list. 

Yesterday, I went to visit the property with my architect to assess the drainage problem in the back yard. I had notified the tenants that I was arriving, and asked them to notify me if the time was not suitable. When I arrived no one was there, and we couldn't get in. The PRTB said that I should seek their permission to gain access, but if they didn't let me in then they were not complying with their obligations, and I could give them a 28 day notice. I am not sure whether not allowing me in to the garden area would constitute to assess damage would be a breach of obligations. I will have to contact PRTB again. A minefield!!!


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## Seagull (24 Nov 2006)

Did you notify PRTB that the tenants had changed the locks without your permission? If so, what was the response?


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## aircobra19 (27 Nov 2006)

The tenants have not informed the landlord of a problem that is causing damage to the property. Is that not a failure of their obligations?

We also have a problem tenant who fails to notify us of problems with a property, amongst other issues.


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