# Ulster Bank offset mortgages are not being sold to AIB



## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2022)

I wrote to Ulster Bank and got this reply

We are currently writing to customers with an Offset mortgage to confirm that their loan is not part of the transaction with AIB or the transaction with PTSB, and that the ‘Choose Move Close’ action does not apply to them at this time. If their Offset mortgage continues to meet their needs, they should not close the current/ savings account linked to their mortgage yet. We will write to them with a further update as soon as possible.

there are a number of FAQs on this on our Customer Support Hub: www.ulsterbank.ie/help-and-support/support-hub.html


----------



## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2022)

Dear 

We wrote to you in 2021  to tell you that Ulster Bank  Ireland DAC is withdrawing from the Irish market. Since  then,  we’ve   signed  legally  binding  agreements  to  transfer   some  of  our  performing   tracker mortgages to AIB  Group  (AIB) and  our performing  non-tracker mortgages to Permanent TSB (PTSB), subject to receiving  regulatory approvals. As an Offset Mortgage customer, we want to update  you on the Bank’s current  position regarding your Offset  Mortgage.

Why are we writing  to you?

We want  to confirm  to you  that  your  Offset  Mortgage is not part  of the legally binding  agreements announced with AIB and PTSB.

You may also have heard about the Bank  writing to customers to advise them to choose  a new provider and open a new current  account with them over the coming  months. Please  be advised that currently, this does  not apply  to Offset  Mortgage customers with current  and/or  savings accounts linked to an Offset Mortgage.

As  these  accounts are  linked to your  Offset  Mortgage, closure  of these  accounts would  result  in the loss of the Offset benefit. If the Offset Mortgage continues  to meet your needs,  you should ensure  that any  current  and/or savings accounts linked to it remain  open for now.

As  an Offset mortgage customer what  do you need to do?

Nothing.   You  do  not  need  to  take  any  action.  Please   be  assured  that  your  legal  and  regulatory protections  have  not changed. We will write to you again,  later in 2022,  with a further update  on your Offset Mortgage and explain  what  that means  for you.


----------



## Monbretia (23 Sep 2022)

Got that letter this morning, sorry I closed some of the offsetting accounts at all as maybe I wouldn't have had to! Kept one savings and the current account, if they end up continuing these on I will be moving my dds etc back again to ub current account!


----------



## Whatami (23 Sep 2022)

Got that letter too. Pretty late for a lot of people who were probably looking into alternative options. Will be interesting to see what they do next


----------



## Layoftheland (2 Nov 2022)

Thanks for that Brendan. I got the letter also - tbh I went straight to the 'what do you need to do' section of the letter and was relieved to read 'nothing'  so just tossed it aside. I just assumed that it would go to AIB as a tracker but obv need to read all correspondence from Ulsterbank carefully from now on. I have an old First Active Offset mortgage since 2005.


----------



## Monbretia (2 Nov 2022)

Speaking to someone the other day with contacts   UB have no solution yet to the offsets, there are just under 5,000 of them out there, no bank is willing to set up computer programmes to run them so make of that what you will!


----------



## Layoftheland (2 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Speaking to someone the other day with contacts   UB have no solution yet to the offsets, there are just under 5,000 of them out there, no bank is willing to set up computer programmes to run them so make of that what you will!


That's very interesting, was wondering how many of those mortgages they had. It's a pretty niche product.


----------



## Monbretia (2 Nov 2022)

Layoftheland said:


> That's very interesting, was wondering how many of those mortgages they had. It's a pretty niche product.


I was really wondering too how many of them were left around the place, I have mine a long time, can't remember exactly how long without looking up documentation as didn't switch to it on launch as we had a staff preferential rate but when that no longer made sense then I switched.   Think I will actually draw down all my available facility amount for now anyway!


----------



## Layoftheland (2 Nov 2022)

It doesn't sound like it will be top of anyone's list to deal with them so it's probably a waiting game. Do you think it's now or never to draw down any facility?


----------



## Monbretia (2 Nov 2022)

Layoftheland said:


> Do you think it's now or never to draw down any facility?


I do


----------



## aoraki (4 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Speaking to someone the other day with contacts   UB have no solution yet to the offsets, there are just under 5,000 of them out there, no bank is willing to set up computer programmes to run them so make of that what you will!


That is interesting alright.  I'd love to know what the outstanding amount on them is, probably less than 500mil.  Sounds like they need to ensure that if they did find a buyer for them they need to maintain continuity of product features (offsetting, facilitys, etc).  

If no other party wants the hassle of that (and that is certainly understandable, IT projects are expensive, time consuming and painful) what are UBs options here?  Maintain some sort of entity in this market purely to manage these mortgages?

Definitely a waiting game and I certainly wouldn't be in any hurry to look at moving your mortgage to another provider, if you had one of these mortgages that is.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Nov 2022)

Layoftheland said:


> Do you think it's now or never to draw down any facility?



Why would you? 

You have a contract which they cannot change without your agreement? 

Am I missing something on how these work? 

Brendan


----------



## Monbretia (4 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Why would you?
> 
> You have a contract which they cannot change without your agreement?
> 
> ...


 
Just in case Brendan!   In theory yes you can draw it anytime but the amount does keep going down and mine is fairly low at this stage, it might be easier draw it now when things are still running relatively normally.  I simply wouldn't trust them not to find a way out of it!   

Apart from that I seriously doubt these mortgages will continue to exist once UB closes, whatever solution they come up with before that would I feel include getting rid of the offset concept altogether and switching these mortgages to ordinary annuity type.    I know nothing has been announced but I don't see any other way out of it for them.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (4 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> I know nothing has been announced but I don't see any other way out of it for them.



Monbretia

They can't just argue that these contracts are no longer convenient for them and change the rules.

Am I right in saying you have a mortgage of say €200k and a deposit of €120k and they are charging you interest on the net amount of €80k? 

What are you proposing to do in case they break the contract?  withdraw the deposit of €120k and pay interest on the €200k?

Brendan


----------



## Monbretia (4 Nov 2022)

That is the way they work, you pay interest on outstanding net balance.   I don't expect them to change anything to do with that aspect but drawing down additional funds might not be as secure a rule.

They will need to convince people to switch from offset to annuity.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Nov 2022)

Are you suggesting that they might try to freeze your savings and say that you have a mortgage of €80k and that you can't increase it? 

Seems like an unlikely breach of contract. 

They could sell the mortgages net to say AIB and require AIB to allow you to increase the mortgage at any time. 

Say you have a mortgage with AIB of €80k.
You can increase it to €200k at any time. 

Brendan


----------



## Monbretia (5 Nov 2022)

No, I don't think that is likely or possible, they can't just automatically transfer the savings account balance to the mortgage to reduce it.     

Even if they did as your suggestion, transfer the net 80k to AIB and then I immediately drew down the extra to bring it up to 200k as per original it wouldn't solve the problem as I still would want the offsetting of the drawn down 120k off the overall new balance of 200k so if AIB have to sort that out and provide a system to do it they may as well just transfer the mortgage/offset as it is.

I just don't think the mortgage type will exist after closure.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Nov 2022)

aoraki said:


> If no other party wants the hassle of that (and that is certainly understandable, IT projects are expensive, time consuming and painful) what are UBs options here? Maintain some sort of entity in this market purely to manage these mortgages?


It's inevitable both KBC and Ulster will have to maintain some kind of entity for a very long time to deal with all sorts of issues.

For example Danske left the Irish mortgage market in (I think) 2016 but their Dublin office is still carrying out a tracker review. I wrote to them last year and got a reply back after two weeks.

So it's not at all implausible that Ulster retains a wind-down entity to deal with these offset mortgages.


----------



## aoraki (5 Nov 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It's inevitable both KBC and Ulster will have to maintain some kind of entity for a very long time to deal with all sorts of issues.
> 
> For example Danske left the Irish mortgage market in (I think) 2016 but their Dublin office is still carrying out a tracker review. I wrote to them last year and got a reply back after two weeks.
> 
> So it's not at all implausible that Ulster retains a wind-down entity to deal with these offset mortgages.


I’m thinking that this is probably the likeliest outcome. I think some of the suggestions above will constitute breaches of contract by the bank.  Dankse ran into issues when they tried to do similar things and had to reverse their course of action.  Any attempt by UB to dispose of these mortgages is likely to incur a big loss for them as I don’t think any other bank will want to deal with the hassle of them unless they are being sold on at a big enough discount to make it worth their while.

We’ll see how it plays out.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> it wouldn't solve the problem as I still would want the offsetting of the drawn down 120k off the overall new balance of 200k



I don't understand

If you have a mortgage of €200k with a savings balance of €120k which you can access any time, it is the same to you as a mortgage of € €80k which you can increase to €200k at any time? 

Other than some psychological assurance that you have €120k cash in a savings account, it makes no difference.

I presume it's easier for AIB to give you an interest only mortgage of €80k and a credit line of €120k than to set up a system whereby you have two accounts which offset.

Brendan


----------



## Monbretia (5 Nov 2022)

Maybe for some Brendan but the example we are using doesn't actually reflect the figures in my mortgage, I pay no interest at all and haven't for many years and yes in theory I could just clear the mortgage but for my own reasons I don't wish to.

But you could be right, that sort of option could work for some people, interest free mortgage and guaranteed credit line, hardly an attractive proposal to the purchasing bank though!


----------



## aoraki (5 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I don't understand
> 
> If you have a mortgage of €200k with a savings balance of €120k which you can access any time, it is the same to you as a mortgage of € €80k which you can increase to €200k at any time?
> 
> ...


In your example if the person had 200k outstanding and 120K on deposit offsetting the outstanding balance, that situation might change, they might want to increase the balance in their deposit account and offset more of the mortgage.  If you do away with the offsetting capability you lose the ability to do things like this.

I'm in a similar situation to monbretia in that I am offsetting the entire outstanding balance with savings.  This situation works for me personally because it means I'm paying no interest on the mortgage.  The ability to offset is saving me a lot more than I would earn if I just put that money in a separate deposit account.  If something came up and I needed to access the money on deposit, then it's there.  Having that flexibility is a very good thing.

Plus there are other features of this particular account type that are very nice, such as the ability to draw down a facility and you can also transfer the mortgage to another property if you want to as well.  I personally would not want to trade this account for a standard mortgage type unless the bank was offering a fair incentive to do so.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Nov 2022)

aoraki said:


> In your example if the person had 200k outstanding and 120K on deposit offsetting the outstanding balance, that situation might change, they might want to increase the balance in their deposit account and offset more of the mortgage. If you do away with the offsetting capability you lose the ability to do things like this.



But if AIB took over and €80k mortgage and allowed you to pay it down whenever you wanted, it would be the same thing as long as you are allowed to redraw it. 

I am not suggesting a standard mortgage type. I am suggesting a mortgage which preserves all the benefits of your current offset mortgage. The structure is slightly different but that has no impact on you.

Brendan


----------



## Puddle duck (8 Nov 2022)

I like the top facility with no underwriting requirement! My husband is self-employed so underwriting is just more and more difficult. If they sell to AIB etc... could the new bank allow top-ups but insist on full underwriting?


----------



## Indebadbooks (11 Nov 2022)

Hi guys,
I too have an offset flexible mortgage. In error I closed the linked current account about 2 months ago as I thought I was being " pro active". 
 I rang ulster today to reopen it. Got passed along and was eventually told I'd be called back.
Will they reopen it for me do you think and or does my closing of the account invalidate the offset option?
I have just in the past few days got the standard letter telling me my mort gage hasn't been sold as it's an offset and they will be in contact I'm the new year.

Thanks


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

Good question!  As you voluntarily closed it it's hard to say whether or not they will reopen it.   However you should still retain the facility drawdown option, although that automatically lodged to the current account, you would also have the switching option to a new house.   Now you may not envisage wanting but nevertheless it's an option you have now.

You are obviously losing out on any offsetting against interest charges of any amount you held in the current account part so unless you basically kept the account practically empty that is a loss to you.   I am assuming you had no other accounts also linked to the offset?   There was the option to have savings accounts offset against it too, can't remember the number but more than one definitely.


----------



## ClubMan (11 Nov 2022)

Do the terms and conditions of the loan say anything about what happens if you close the "offsetting" account?


----------



## aoraki (11 Nov 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Do the terms and conditions of the loan say anything about what happens if you close the "offsetting" account?


I'd say under "normal" circumstances that you could close/open offsetting accounts as it suited you.  I last opened up some offsetting savings accounts a couple of years back without any issues.

However in the current environment where UB are focussed on closing existing Current and Savings account, if you close any offsetting accounts it might be difficult or impossible to open new ones again.  I don't have access to the original T&Cs though.  In a recent communication regarding the situation about Offset Mortgages they did include this line; 

_As these accounts are linked to your Offset Mortgage, closure of these accounts would result in the loss of the Offset benefit. If the Offset Mortgage continues to meet your needs, you should ensure that any current and/or savings accounts linked to it remain open for now._


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Do the terms and conditions of the loan say anything about what happens if you close the "offsetting" account?


I have the original T&Cs booklets, I'll have a read through later when I'm home to see what it says.


----------



## ClubMan (11 Nov 2022)

aoraki said:


> _As these accounts are linked to your Offset Mortgage, closure of these accounts would result in the loss of the Offset benefit. If the Offset Mortgage continues to meet your needs, you should ensure that any current and/or savings accounts linked to it remain open for now._


That seems pretty clear to me.
Close the "offsetting" account and you lose the offsetting option.


----------



## TK Max (11 Nov 2022)

Has anybody with the offset tracker mortgage approached ulsterbank about trying to get a discount on paying off the mortgage. We have approached about the idea but didn’t get a positive response. 
I presume at this stage as stated earlier in the thread that Ulsterbank may have to leave a presence here to deal with the remaining offset account on there books. In this case will external companies still accept direct debits from Ulster bank as our current and savings account are offset against the mortgage, currently getting notifications from companies looking to see when we are switching our direct debits from Ulsterbank.


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

Had a look at booklets and other than losing the option of offsetting funds in the current account I can't see any other issue with closing the current account, now that would be a big issue to me but if someone never used the current account correctly to it's full benefit it might not be a big deal.   The other benefits such as tracker rate/facility drawdown/transferability should remain.

When the accounts was renamed Offset from CAM in 2006 they made the current account and mortgage account independent of each other, prior to that if you paid the mortgage then the current account closed too, after 2006 current account could remain open when mortgage was finished so should work other way around as well.


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

TK Max said:


> Has anybody with the offset tracker mortgage approached ulsterbank about trying to get a discount on paying off the mortgage. We have approached about the idea but didn’t get a positive response.
> I presume at this stage as stated earlier in the thread that Ulsterbank may have to leave a presence here to deal with the remaining offset account on there books. In this case will external companies still accept direct debits from Ulster bank as our current and savings account are offset against the mortgage, currently getting notifications from companies looking to see when we are switching our direct debits from Ulsterbank.


That's the sort of question no one in Head Office is going to answer or be able to make a decision on and if they intend to do it no one will know until last minute and papers will probably have the news before staff!   

As regards the dd's etc I have switched those to another bank while still maintaining the current account and a savings account offset against the mortgage, only the actual mortgage repayment comes out of it now so you could do that but of course it's a nuisance!

If they have to retain a presence here to run these mortgages and current accounts bearing in mind they would then need to provide the full banking service on the current account part such as dds/debit card/standing orders etc which I imagine is a lot more than some of the other banks who left had to deal with and is more than just being a service to answer queries on existing mortgages then I would be looking to switch my direct debits back to my current account with them.   I can't imagine that happening though, that's basically running a mini bank for the offset customers only.


----------



## TK Max (11 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> That's the sort of question no one in Head Office is going to answer or be able to make a decision on and if they intend to do it no one will know until last minute and papers will probably have the news before staff!
> 
> As regards the dd's etc I have switched those to another bank while still maintaining the current account and a savings account offset against the mortgage, only the actual mortgage repayment comes out of it now so you could do that but of course it's a nuisance!
> 
> If they have to retain a presence here to run these mortgages and current accounts bearing in mind they would then need to provide the full banking service on the current account part such as dds/debit card/standing orders etc which I imagine is a lot more than some of the other banks who left had to deal with and is more than just being a service to answer queries on existing mortgages then I would be looking to switch my direct debits back to my current account with them.   I can't imagine that happening though, that's basically running a mini bank for the offset customers only.


Thanks for the reply
We will probably have to arrange something for our direct debits soon enough as well.
Just wish they would let us know what’s happening at this stage.
Do you know what the official date now for Ulsterbank exiting the Irish market, I thought it was March 2023


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

TK Max said:


> Do you know what the official date now for Ulsterbank exiting the Irish market, I thought it was March 2023


Don't know


----------



## RichInSpirit (11 Nov 2022)

I wonder could these mortgages be managed from Ulster Bank in Belfast if Ulster Bank does finally close the doors in Dublin?


----------



## Monbretia (11 Nov 2022)

See I think there is more to managing them than just managing them as such, if it was just the mortgages then maybe but the attached current accounts are a bigger issue I would have thought, surely access to the banking system is required to run the features of a current account?  I don't know, I'm just pondering!


----------



## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2022)

ClubMan said:


> That seems pretty clear to me.
> Close the "offsetting" account and you lose the offsetting option.



It's probably clear in the normal circumstances. 

It's not clear in the unforeseen circumstances of the withdrawal of UB from the Irish market accompanied by all the publicity telling people to close their accounts. 

Brendan


----------



## Indebadbooks (12 Nov 2022)

Thanks very much for your reply guys on the offset current account closure. They did call me back which I missed but will keep trying. As an aside I do have a savings account ( very little in it) with them which isnt linked to the offset mortgage. If they refuse to reopen my current account I'm going to ask them to link the savings to the mortgage instead. 
In any event I'm going to play the confusion card and say with all the furore over their move that I thought closing the account was the thing to do and was advised by their branch staff.
I'm just wary that they could come back and now say that it's not technically an offset mortgage anymore as ive no offset facility in place.
I will certainly relay the outcome here,

Thanks again


----------



## Monbretia (12 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> Thanks very much for your reply guys on the offset current account closure. They did call me back which I missed but will keep trying. As an aside I do have a savings account ( very little in it) with them which isnt linked to the offset mortgage. If they refuse to reopen my current account I'm going to ask them to link the savings to the mortgage instead.
> In any event I'm going to play the confusion card and say with all the furore over their move that I thought closing the account was the thing to do and was advised by their branch staff.
> I'm just wary that they could come back and now say that it's not technically an offset mortgage anymore as ive no offset facility in place.
> I will certainly relay the outcome here,
> ...


It's still an offset mortgage so doubt they could try that one, as you already have the savings account that's great if they would link that one instead of the current account, doesn't give you the functions of a current account but at least you can benefit from offsetting any money you can afford to put in the savings account.


----------



## Indebadbooks (14 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> It's still an offset mortgage so doubt they could try that one, as you already have the savings account that's great if they would link that one instead of the current account, doesn't give you the functions of a current account but at least you can benefit from offsetting any money you can afford to put in the savings account.


Thanks for that monbretia. I never realised you could link multiple accounts to the offset mortgage. I could certainly begin saving through that ub savings account to reducé the interest on the mortgage. Where would be my best point of contact to get the savings account linked do you think and/ or could they refuse to to same? I don't really need the ub current account so might just leave as is. 
Thanks


----------



## Monbretia (14 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> Thanks for that monbretia. I never realised you could link multiple accounts to the offset mortgage. I could certainly begin saving through that ub savings account to reducé the interest on the mortgage. Where would be my best point of contact to get the savings account linked do you think and/ or could they refuse to to same? I don't really need the ub current account so might just leave as is.
> Thanks


You could just rock up to nearest branch and see if they can do it there, at least if they can't they will tell you who to contact.   Think it was up to 4 accounts could be linked, I have closed all mine except for one savings account and the current account.


----------



## Indebadbooks (14 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> You could just rock up to nearest branch and see if they can do it there, at least if they can't they will tell you who to contact.   Think it was up to 4 accounts could be linked, I have closed all mine except for one savings account and the current account.


Cheers for that, a great help.


----------



## Indebadbooks (15 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> Cheers for that, a great hel





Monbretia said:


> You could just rock up to nearest branch and see if they can do it there, at least if they can't they will tell you who to contact.   Think it was up to 4 accounts could be linked, I have closed all mine except for one savings account and the current account.


So just to let you know, Ulster called back and will reopen the current account. As an aside, as the balance on the offset account grows, does this reduce the repayments on the mortgage or just shorten the term, assuming interest rates were to stay constant?


----------



## Monbretia (15 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> So just to let you know, Ulster called back and will reopen the current account. As an aside, as the balance on the offset account grows, does this reduce the repayments on the mortgage or just shorten the term, assuming interest rates were to stay constant?


That's great news!

The balance in the current account reduces the interest you pay on the mortgage so the payments don't change but the term should shorten depending of course on how much money you have in it.   If the interest portion of each payment reduces then the capital portion increases which pays down the balance quicker.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Nov 2022)

Is the offset mortgage a  repayment mortgage or an interest-only mortgage? 

If it is an interest-only mortgage, then the interest charge will fall and presumably the repayment will fall accordingly.

Brendan


----------



## Monbretia (15 Nov 2022)

It's a repayment mortgage, the repayment doesn't fall in relation to less interest charged, the repayment only changes with rate changes otherwise it remains the same regardless of the interest savings, it just means more capital is being cleared.


----------



## Indebadbooks (15 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Is the offset mortgage a  repayment mortgage or an interest-only mortgage?
> 
> If it is an interest-only mortgage, then the interest charge will fall and presumably the repayment will fall accordingly.
> 
> Brendan


It's a repayment mortgage so the term will shorten over time then. With interest rates on the up id imagine it's probably the best place to put any savings at the minute.  I note the talk of the possibility of ulster bank trying to offload these mortgages by way of a discount to the mortgage holder if they can clear the balance. Is this likely does anyone think?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> It's a repayment mortgage so the term will shorten over time then.



Either the repayment will remain the same, and the term will reduce
or
The term will remain the same and the repayment will reduce. 

I imagine that the default would be that the term would remain the same. 

Brendan


----------



## llgon (15 Nov 2022)

With the Danske offset mortgage it was possible to periodically request an adjustment to the repayment amount in order to keep the same term. This was applicable where extra capital had been paid down due to the offset balance reducing the interest portion.

I think it also happened automatically with changes to the interest rate but I'm not sure about that.

May or may not be the same with Ulster.


----------



## Indebadbooks (16 Nov 2022)

So guys, I also have a drawdown facility of 33k left on my offset mortgage.  From what I'm reading here is it as simple as calling ub and topping it up without all the rigmarole of payslips, credit checks , stress checks etc?
If so couldn't I draw it down and dump it into my offset current account. Repayments would go up but it's effectively an interest free source of credit until it's taken out of the offset account and used at some later date?
Thank you.


----------



## Monbretia (16 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Either the repayment will remain the same, and the term will reduce
> or
> The term will remain the same and the repayment will reduce.
> 
> ...


The term technically stays the same but in effect similar with overpayments it will end sooner if overpaid which basically is what is happening when repayments remain the same but the interest portion is smaller.


----------



## Monbretia (16 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> So guys, I also have a drawdown facility of 33k left on my offset mortgage.  From what I'm reading here is it as simple as calling ub and topping it up without all the rigmarole of payslips, credit checks , stress checks etc?
> If so couldn't I draw it down and dump it into my offset current account. Repayments would go up but it's effectively an interest free source of credit until it's taken out of the offset account and used at some later date?
> Thank you.


Yes you have that roughly right, there is a form to be signed for drawdown rather than just a phone call and you must have life cover in place to cover the additional drawdown for the remaining term of mortgage, if you had decreasing term insurance originally it may have decreased below what you need but need to check it.   If you have any other policy you can use that instead if it covers what's needed.

Alternatively if you fit the bill for a 'waiver' it might be an option but would delay things and is totally at their discretion to give or not.


----------



## Indebadbooks (16 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Yes you have that roughly right, there is a form to be signed for drawdown rather than just a phone call and you must have life cover in place to cover the additional drawdown for the remaining term of mortgage, if you had decreasing term insurance originally it may have decreased below what you need but need to check it.   If you have any other policy you can use that instead if it covers what's needed.
> 
> Alternatively if you fit the bill for a 'waiver' it might be an option but would delay things and is totally at their discretion to give or not.


Really appreciate the info monbretia but you lost me with the waiver thing. How does that work exactly?  Thank you


----------



## Monbretia (16 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> Really appreciate the info monbretia but you lost me with the waiver thing. How does that work exactly?  Thank you


Under Consumer Credit Act you must have life insurance in place to cover a mortgage however there are a few reasons where a bank can offer you a 'waiver' of that requirement.   Usually if you can't get it due to a medical condition, too expensive to get it due again to medical reason, customer is over 55, however it is up to lender whether or not to allow this.


----------



## Indebadbooks (16 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Under Consumer Credit Act you must have life insurance in place to cover a mortgage however there are a few reasons where a bank can offer you a 'waiver' of that requirement.   Usually if you can't get it due to a medical condition, too expensive to get it due again to medical reason, customer is over 55, however it is up to lender whether or not to allow this.


Oh grand, il make sure it's adequate for the cover il need. Thanks for all


----------



## Indebadbooks (16 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> Under Consumer Credit Act you must have life insurance in place to cover a mortgage however there are a few reasons where a bank can offer you a 'waiver' of that requirement.   Usually if you can't get it due to a medical condition, too expensive to get it due again to medical reason, customer is over 55, however it is up to lender whether or not to allow this.


I'll break your heart yet monbretia with these questions... so contacted ulster, nó problem getting the extra facility, just need letter with life assurance assigned to them. Thing is I changed life assurance in 2010 and sent ulster the new policy but it's not assigned to them as far as I can see tonight. Will call insurer tmra to confirm  same. So is it a big deal to get this done and does it take long typically.  Just a bit anxious that ulster can review the facilty at any time and I run out out of time. Thanks in advance,


----------



## Monbretia (16 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> I'll break your heart yet monbretia with these questions... so contacted ulster, nó problem getting the extra facility, just need letter with life assurance assigned to them. Thing is I changed life assurance in 2010 and sent ulster the new policy but it's not assigned to them as far as I can see tonight. Will call insurer tmra to confirm  same. So is it a big deal to get this done and does it take long typically.  Just a bit anxious that ulster can review the facilty at any time and I run out out of time. Thanks in advance,


I wouldn't have thought that they needed it assigned, feel they dropped that requirement at some stage but maybe they reinstated it, I'm remembering back a while!  They must not have been assigning them back in 2010 or they would have looked for it when you sent in new policy, if they have already accepted that policy then just confirm back to them when sending in letter that it's an up to date copy of the same policy they already have on file showing it's still in force and wait and see.


----------



## Indebadbooks (16 Nov 2022)

Monbretia said:


> I wouldn't have thought that they needed it assigned, feel they dropped that requirement at some stage but maybe they reinstated it, I'm remembering back a while!  They must not have been assigning them back in 2010 or they would have looked for it when you sent in new policy, if they have already accepted that policy then just confirm back to them when sending in letter that it's an up to date copy of the same policy they already have on file showing it's still in force and wait and see.


Good idea, il throw it back to them that way see how it goes.  Was told over the phone that when they receive letter from me etc that funds would b in my account within 5 working days.... will let you know how it works out. Thank you


----------



## aoraki (23 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> With interest rates on the up id imagine it's probably the best place to put any savings at the minute.



This is a big advantage of these accounts.  If the interest rate on your offset mortgage is 3% and you are offsetting it entirely with savings, your savings will save you 3% worth of interest on your mortgage, which is a lot more than you would get if you put that money in a deposit account accruing .05% (not to mention a dirt tax reduction).  These Offset mortgages are one of the few ways that your savings are actually working for you.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (23 Nov 2022)

Hi aorki

While you are correct, with another lender you could also pay down your mortgage with your savings and get the same 3% return.

The advantage of this account, is that if you need your savings later, you can get them back.

Brendan


----------



## aoraki (23 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi aorki
> 
> While you are correct, with another lender you could also pay down your mortgage with your savings and get the same 3% return.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brendan, I meant to include that very salient point!


----------



## cremeegg (23 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> So guys, I also have a drawdown facility of 33k left on my offset mortgage.  From what I'm reading here is it as simple as calling ub and topping it up without all the rigmarole of payslips, credit checks , stress checks etc?


That wasn't my experience. Do please let us know how it goes.


----------



## Indebadbooks (24 Nov 2022)

cremeegg said:


> That wasn't my experience. Do please let us know how it goes.


So they got back to me insisting that I get the original life assurance assigned to them. Gave me a couple of forms to be filled out ( deed of assignment and notice of assignment ),  need a letter from assurance company as well. Then have to go to local branch to get above forms signed up. Will b doing that tmra before they reduce the facility ( every quarter apparently )


----------



## Indebadbooks (29 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> So they got back to me insisting that I get the original life assurance assigned to them. Gave me a couple of forms to be filled out ( deed of assignment and notice of assignment ),  need a letter from assurance company as well. Then have to go to local branch to get above forms signed up. Will b doing that tmra before they reduce the facility ( every quarter apparently )





cremeegg said:


> That wasn't my experience. Do please let us know how it goes.


So posted assignments etc last Thursday and got funds into my bank account this morning. Very fast I have to say.


----------



## cremeegg (29 Nov 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> So posted assignments etc last Thursday and got funds into my bank account this morning. Very fast I have to say.


Thats good news. Good to hear this still works.


----------



## legolfer (5 Dec 2022)

I understand that UB may be considering closing these facilities as part of the withdrawal, and compensating holders. The compensation may be linked to how much you use your current account and the offsetting facility. Then remaining mortgages transferred to AIB.


----------



## Paul F (6 Dec 2022)

legolfer said:


> I understand that UB may be considering closing these facilities as part of the withdrawal, and compensating holders. The compensation may be linked to how much you use your current account and the offsetting facility.


Compensation or not, would the withdrawal of these facilities be a breach of contract?


----------



## legolfer (7 Dec 2022)

Paul F said:


> Compensation or not, would the withdrawal of these facilities be a breach of contract?


I would think an engagement process happens before any breach is considered. Perhaps the thinking is that if the compensation number is acceptable to each holder then acceptance of the payment releases UB from the offset facility, and then ported over to AIB. 

Given that rates have been low the past number of years if rates are to remain high going forward and you have a lump in the current or deposit account might warrant a reasonable payment.


----------



## fliball123 (7 Dec 2022)

legolfer said:


> I would think an engagement process happens before any breach is considered. Perhaps the thinking is that if the compensation number is acceptable to each holder then acceptance of the payment releases UB from the offset facility, and then ported over to AIB.
> 
> Given that rates have been low the past number of years if rates are to remain high going forward and you have a lump in the current or deposit account might warrant a reasonable payment.


Hi Legofier, may I ask where your getting this information from with regards to compensation and these mortgages going to AIB?


----------



## aoraki (7 Dec 2022)

fliball123 said:


> Hi Legofier, may I ask where your getting this information from with regards to compensation and these mortgages going to AIB?


I'm curious about this as well, seems like a messy way to go about this.  For this they would need to engage with each account holder individually (of which there are a few thousand).  And what happens if the account holder doesn't accept the compensation offer and is happy to continue as-is?

Obviously I know about as much as anybody else on this forum about what Ulster Bank is going to do with these mortgages, but this approach just seems a bit unlikely?


----------



## fliball123 (13 Dec 2022)

legolfer said:


> I would think an engagement process happens before any breach is considered. Perhaps the thinking is that if the compensation number is acceptable to each holder then acceptance of the payment releases UB from the offset facility, and then ported over to AIB.
> 
> Given that rates have been low the past number of years if rates are to remain high going forward and you have a lump in the current or deposit account might warrant a reasonable payment.


Any update on this Legolfer


----------



## aoraki (17 Dec 2022)

Got a letter this morning from UB relating to this (as I'm sure other Offset account holders did as well).  The first paragraph says it all.



> We wrote to you recently to provide you with an update on the Bank's current position regarding your Offset Mortgage as the Bank withdraws from the Irish market.  We continue to work towards a solution for our Offset Mortgages and we'll contact you again in mid-2023 when this has been finalised.


It's basically as-you-were, business as usual for the time being. It looks like these mortgages are being left to the very last and it wouldn't surprise me even if they kicked the can further down the road in mid-2023.


----------



## Indebadbooks (17 Dec 2022)

aoraki said:


> Got a letter this morning from UB relating to this (as I'm sure other Offset account holders did as well).  The first paragraph says it all.
> 
> 
> It's basically as-you-were, business as usual for the time being. It looks like these mortgages are being left to the very last and it wouldn't surprise me even if they kicked the can further down the road in mid-2023.


Yip same as. We wait and see, and wait.


----------



## TK Max (17 Dec 2022)

Indebadbooks said:


> Yip same as. We wait and see, and wait.


Same as that


----------

