# split with boyfriend, house value = outstanding mortgage, he wont move out etc.



## wealth (11 Jan 2011)

Hi 

Just looking for some advice long story short split with ex boyfriend four months ago.

I have moved out of property and he is currently staying in house. I am making full mortgage payments as he is out of work at the minute. I have asked him to leave property so I could move back in as I cant afford both rent and mortgage, he is refusing 

.I cant return to house while he is their as I dont feel safe. I have a six year old daughter who wants to go home, my ex  is not the child's father, the house is currently valued at the outstanding mortgage. Property is on market for past year with no interest.

 I have just received word back from bank that they will allowing me take mortgage over in my own name problem is he wont agree. 

He is not in a position to take it over in his own name. I was advised by free legal aid that as I have a child even though my ex is not the father if it went to court I have a good case that the childs right's to home are more important. 

Can he just be ordered from the home? I not sure.

 I have applied for free legal aid just waiting for it to come through. 

Be grateful for anyones thoughts or advice on matter thanks


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## Dezure (11 Jan 2011)

If I understand correctly, the mortgage is a joint in both your names - but yet you are paying the full payments and he is living there and refusing to assign the mortgage to you.  That doesn't sound very fair.  If he is refusing to compromise you are going to have to threaten legal action and then follow through with it if you don't get a resolution by discussing it between yourselves.

He should either pay the mortgage and retain his right to live in the property or allow you to pay and submit to your terms which is for him to move out.


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## wealth (12 Jan 2011)

thanks for your response Dezure, yes mortgage is in joint names and we both on deeds, I am just really worried about going to court and the expense if I am not approved for legal aid, someone told me as he has an interest in the property whether he paying or not a judge will not ask him to leave. Dont know what to do as I can continue as I am.Just what this resolved. He wont agree to anything and house not selling, if it finally sells we will both be at loss.


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## PaddyBloggit (12 Jan 2011)

And you're paying full mortgage for him?

Time to take action ... either he contributes, or moves out or you stop paying and have the house sold.

Time to visit a solicitor me thinks!


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## Bronte (13 Jan 2011)

wealth said:


> .Just what this resolved. He wont agree to anything and house not selling, if it finally sells we will both be at loss.


 
Well if I was him why would I move. He's got the house to himself and you're paying for it. 

Would it not be much simplier if you got the house sold rather than the mess of getting him evicted?

What are you afraid of exactly, is your ex violent?


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## wealth (13 Jan 2011)

thanks for your response, the house is not selling I am paying mortgage as I simply dont want my credit rating ruined, I want to start again and hopefully either get house back or buy new one, The house is not selling just wondering do I have any hope  if it goes to court that a judge will order him to leave to house with nothing.dont want to take it to court if I have no hope of getting house. If no hope I will talk to mortgage company and tell them no other choice but to stop payments and suppose have to accept I will never get another mortgage or loan. My ex is very unstable at the moment I have a fear but he is not violent.


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## Petal (13 Jan 2011)

Have you talked to the bank? I don't know what the situation is if a mortgage is in two names. If you keep paying your half would the bank come after him for his half? Or maybe since the value of te house equals the outstanding mortgage, maybe you could give the house to the bank?
You could also try www.newbeginning.ie 
I think they deal with house reposessions, but maybe they can help in your situation also. 
http://www.newbeginning.ie/


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## alaskaonline (13 Jan 2011)

You should meet with a solicitor or (if entitled) use the free legal aid.

There are a few things we don't know and a solicitor would be the best option to get the best advise.

I would presume just paying the mortgage alone doesn't neccessarily give you more rights on the house. If for example the two of you have a major loan in joined names additionally to the mortgage and he's the one paying the loan off while you pay the mortgage, you guys are pretty much on equal grounds here. But that's just me - again, get a solicitor to look into it!


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## wealth (13 Jan 2011)

i am waiting for legal aid to be approved, as fair as I am aware full mortgage has to be paid or it will ruin my credit rating even if i pay my share it will still stand against me. But cant continue as I am with paying rent also. Just with paying mortgage and having a child thought I might have a better chance if it goes to court if a judge has to rule. Any advice on just if I do return house to bank what happens if I stop paying mortgage? Will my name be ruined for ever?


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## RIAD_BSC (13 Jan 2011)

I won't offer any legal advice, but from a practical point of view, maybe you should fight as dirty as he is doing..... It will be difficult and upsetting for you, I concede, but getting back your daughter's home must be of paramount concern. Others on AAM might disagree with my advice, as they are entitled to, but here's what I'd do for a start:

Have you still a key? Wait until he leaves the house to go somewhere (maybe you know his routine?) Then go in yourself and get the all the locks changed immediately (there are plenty of emergency locksmiths around).

Have a male friend/relative or two come with you for safety reasons. Maybe have your daughter go on a nice "holiday" for a few days to a friends house or her grandparents house, so she is not exposed to anything and so she isn't upset.

When he returns and starts banging the door down, call the guards. (Here's where you have to hold your nose from an ethics point of view - but then again, he's hardly playing fair himself, is he?)

Tell the guards when they arrive that you are afraid of him, that you are frightened for your daughter (both true) and that he pays nothing towards the house and you don't want him to come in because you've broken up. Make sure you have a male friend/relative with you in the house at all times during this.

I bet the guards will convince him to go away. Then you can think about getting a restraining order or something against him, because you have a record of having had to call the guards out, you're back in your home, and you seem genuinely afraid of the guy. If you have genuine grounds to think he is unstable, you could get a restraining order in a flash if you tell the court these grounds, plus the judge will consider the safety and stability of your daughter. The cost of a month's rent or two might cover the legal fees......

All of this sounds a very unpleasant tactic to use, and possibly underhand to some. But for the sake of my daughter's home, I'd do anything to get it back and get him out....... The guy sounds like trouble....

Hope it all works out for you.....


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## fizzelina (13 Jan 2011)

+1 to Riad's advice  - it is spot on what that guy needs. You are paying the mortgage you need to get yourself back into the house and then wait there while the courts decide. Get those male friends on board and move yourself back in.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Jan 2011)

I really think you should take legal advice first before you do this. I would guess that threatening him with violence would not stand in your favour when this eventually gets in front of a judge.


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## wealth (13 Jan 2011)

thanks guys for all your advice got legal advice regarding changing locks advised under no circumstances should i do this as much as i would love to maybe i should be tougher and play him at his own game.He wont sit back though be worried he would put windows in. the most annoying thing is he was caught with someone else thats why we split up i am getting punished i cant go home. he locked all inside doors of house bar where he had my clothes dumped he didnt think i had keys thank god i did.it madness.


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## RIAD_BSC (13 Jan 2011)

At no stage did I, or would I, advise threatening him with violence Brendan! Where the hell did you get that idea from? That comment makes me sound like some sort of a thug, or an imbecile, or both. Please read my post properly before you make a criticism such as that.

I advised her to change the locks while he was out and to call the guards when he started banging the doors down upon his return. I suggested having someone with her at all times during this so that she remained safe - I'd have thought that was common sense. I meant that they could just be in the background, observing, and making sure he didn't harm her. Never once did I say she should threaten him with violence...! This post will be deleted if not edited immediately!

She can wait a year or maybe longer to get in front of a judge, with no guarantee she'll get back into her house... while all the while he lives there himself and drains her cash... while all the while she lives in some rented place somewhere and ends up broke, or defaulting, or in some other form of big big trouble while he lives it up at her expense.....

Or... she can take her daughter's home back the smart way, and involve the police and the law if he gets nasty about it.

Of course her lawyer would advise her not to do this - it's not a legal solution, it's pragmatic one designed solely to get her back into her home. But sometimes common sense trumps faith in the law for a problem such as this. There may very well be no clear cut, goody-two-shoes solution to a messy problem such as being locked out of your own home by a cheating boyfriend who makes a fool out of you and then charges you for the privellege.

I know what I'd do, but it is up to the OP, ultimately. She has to think of her daughter's immediate welfare, and not just sit back and hope the law will solve the problem for her.


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## Bronte (14 Jan 2011)

You absolutely should not do what Riad has proposed.  Falsely accusing someone in order to get a restraining/barring order just gives women a bad name and puts the system into disrepute.  

What do you want Wealth, do you want the house, do you want to end the problem.

Do not stop paying the mortgage, it's not a half mortgage each.  You are both liable for the full amount but if one is not paying than the other will have to.  In the event of a sale you will have contributed more and should be entitled to a higher share of the proceeds.  

Is your ex able to pay but refuses to do so.  If yes he is playing you and you've walked right into his hands by leaving the house.  If you are not afraid of him then there is no reason you cannot move into the house without any of the messing in relation to evicting him.  If it makes you feel better there is no reason you cannot bring a relative with you but you would really want to be sure that you and your ex are going to live in peace (despite what he has done) until the ownership of the house is sorted in court. 

If you move in and don't pay the mortgage then it will take about 2 years before the bank can go after you to evict you and you will ruin your credit rating etc.  

There are two sides to every story.  Even though he cheated on you he must have a reason for you believing that he would break the windows if you try to evict him.  What is that reason.  

If you cannot live peaceable in the house (and who is to say you might cramp his style and he may leave if you're there) then you should of course not move in but go for an order to sell the house.   There will always be another house and your home is wherever you and your child reside.  A fact that many people overlook.


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## truthseeker (14 Jan 2011)

RIAD_BSC said:


> If you have genuine grounds to think he is unstable, you could get a restraining order in a flash if you tell the court these grounds...


 
Just from a practical viewpoint, its not that easy to get a restraining order - and rightly so or youd get all kinds of false accusations leading to restraining orders.

At most the OP could apply for a protection order, but unless there is a history of violence or reasons for her to be in fear a judge wouldnt even grant that. Just one visit from the guards because he is knocking on the door of his own house wouldnt cut it. Plus - its likely the guards will just insist its a civil matter, if he behaves in a reasonable way to them they could just tell the OP to let him into his own house.

However - RIAD_BSC - there is merit in some of your suggestions. The OP, seeing as its half her property, could move back in with as many friends as she can and make the living environment very unpleasant just by presence of herself and her friends. Or she could have the utilities disconnected - if they are in her name, and make the place unlivable. Or she could put it up for rent and parade a constant stream of potential renters through the house. There are a lot of ways to make a living environment unpleasant for someone without resorting to trying for restraining orders etc...

But realistically the safest bet here is to get to court and get ownership sorted out.


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## alaskaonline (14 Jan 2011)

I completely agree with Bronte and as OP had stated herself, she cannot legally go and change locks. It would certainly not benefit her when it goes to Court.

Additionally and as some have said, wealth you have a right to move back into your house. Why did you move out in the first place if (as you stated) there was no violent background? It is bitter but he has just as much rights to live in this house as you have regardless if he pays mortgage right now or not. The legalities on how to change the current circumstances (eg.names on the deeds, mortgage payments etc.) is something your solicitor should help with. Not the banks or the police can be of real help here. The bank just cares about getting money and aren't interested who gives it and the police doesn't get involved unless there is an assault case.


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## RIAD_BSC (14 Jan 2011)

Bronte said:


> You absolutely should not do what Riad has proposed. Falsely accusing someone in order to get a restraining/barring order just gives women a bad name and puts the system into disrepute.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## fizzelina (14 Jan 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Just from a practical viewpoint, its not that easy to get a restraining order - and rightly so or youd get all kinds of false accusations leading to restraining orders.


 
That may be the case for a restraining order.
At the moment my OH knows a guy who has had a Protection Order granted last week against him by a judge, despite NO history of arguments, never mind violence. He was in court with his solicitor to oppose it. The woman in question had an affair, has a new boyfriend, wants to separate from the husband and for him to move out. When he said he's not moving out she managed to easily get the protection order and 2 days later she rang the guards saying she is afraid (no argument even happening) but the order meant the guards came, arrested the guy and he spent a night in a cell!! The guards were very sympathetic, bought him his dinner and said their hands are tied they had to come arrest him since the order is in place. The guy's solicitor advised him not to go back to the house. The lady got her wish. I'm sorry but these protection orders are easy to get and I am still in shock at this guy's plight.


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## alaskaonline (14 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> That may be the case for a restraining order.
> At the moment my OH knows a guy who has had a Protection Order granted last week against him by a judge.....


   that's disgraceful!


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## RIAD_BSC (14 Jan 2011)

alaskaonline said:


> that's disgraceful!


 
I agree. But the OP's ex sounds a bit more sinister.


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## Bronte (14 Jan 2011)

In each of the cases mentioned we have only heard one side of the story.  If Fizzelina's story is true then half the country would be in jail, both men and women.


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## truthseeker (14 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> That may be the case for a restraining order.
> At the moment my OH knows a guy who has had a Protection Order granted last week against him by a judge, despite NO history of arguments, never mind violence. He was in court with his solicitor to oppose it. The woman in question had an affair, has a new boyfriend, wants to separate from the husband and for him to move out. When he said he's not moving out she managed to easily get the protection order and 2 days later she rang the guards saying she is afraid (no argument even happening) but the order meant the guards came, arrested the guy and he spent a night in a cell!! The guards were very sympathetic, bought him his dinner and said their hands are tied they had to come arrest him since the order is in place. The guy's solicitor advised him not to go back to the house. The lady got her wish. I'm sorry but these protection orders are easy to get and I am still in shock at this guy's plight.


 
I find the above very difficult to believe. 

I have actually assisted a number of people who have gone to Dolphin House to get a protection order in cases where there is an history including substance abuse, medical reports of injuries sustained in violent attacks and garda interventions. Its never an easy process and I have seen women refused the protection orders even in extreme cases.


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## fizzelina (14 Jan 2011)

truthseeker said:


> I find the above very difficult to believe.


 
So would I to be honest if I didn't know this guy was sitting chatting with my OH and in bits about it last week and literally in shock at the whole events. The Gardai had never had one complaint against him for anything until suddenly there is a protection order in place. I don't have any reason to doubt him he had nothing to gain by lying to the OH. 
But it's true there are 2 sides and we only heard his. BTW his ex is still allowing him to see their child and take her out etc so surely if she was that afraid of this guy she wouldn't be putting her child in danger.


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## truthseeker (14 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> But it's true there are 2 sides and we only heard his.


 
Very true - and one never really knows what goes on behind closed doors.


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## RIAD_BSC (14 Jan 2011)

As I said originally, many people will probably disagree with my advice. It isn't a legal solution, is a practical measure to get her and her daughter back in her home. On that basis, I stand over it. But the OP knows her own situation best.

I don't have the legal solution - I'm not competent to give one. But I wouldn't hesitate to force him out of the house if he was screwing me over the way he is treating her.

Let us know how you get on, OP.


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## wealth (14 Jan 2011)

thanks so much for everyones advice and thoughts, Riad totally agree with you he walking all over me and getting away with it. As regards moving back into house I cant do it, he drinks alot comes home drunk slamming doors kicking doors and the whole atmosphere would be horrible fair enough if I was on my own but it not fair on my daughter. He is in a position to pay his share of mortgage but why would he when he can get away with not paying. Alot of advice is saying go to court and order the sale the problem is the house is not selling so do I continue to pay a mortgage on a house that will maybe sell in a years time? I just want this resolved he cant take over debt I would happily allow him to do this if he could and walk away with nothing. The house is not selling. I cant continue to pay rent and mortgage.so what do I do?? I am just thinking at this stage hand keys back to bank.


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## paddyc (14 Jan 2011)

Where is the house located, are other houses in the area selling and if so at what price ...you may have to lower the price to get rid of it and him


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## RIAD_BSC (14 Jan 2011)

Could any of the legal boffins here advise whether she could get some sort of court declaration that he must pay his fair share towards the mortgage? Or breach of contract? Or could she even seek some sort of summary judgement for payment of his share?

Surely she could argue that some sort of de-facto legal contract existed between them both, which implied he must cover part of the mortgage...

The OP can't wait a couple of years to force through a sale.... she will be broke much sooner than that. There is also the small matter of finding a buyer, and keeping the buyer on board while you traipse through the courts for a year or two...

Sorry to hear that he is a big drinker, and he sounds borderline abusive..... Don't rule out the protection order route, so.

But get proper legal advice, if you want that sort of solution. Get the cash for it from somewhere. Most AAM posters aren't lawyers, and the AAM posters who are can only give you part answers unless they know the full story.

It seems like an awful lot of hassle just to keep your credit rating (by ruling out a default)


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## truthseeker (14 Jan 2011)

There was a thread here before where someone went to a solicitor re the ex not paying the mortgage - I will have a look for it.

Edit - I cant find the thread - but I refer to it in Post #4 of this thread:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=143097


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## CashAdv (16 Jan 2011)

Not sure if you can use the Partition Act to r "force a sale". I think you have to be living in the property though. Why did you move out? You say that your partner was not violent, etc? Having a few beers is not the same as being a raging alcoholic..


> Sorry to hear that he is a big drinker, and he sounds borderline abusive..... Don't rule out the protection order route, so.



That's hearsay, just nonsense...


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