# Broken 2 year old TV - who's responsible?



## CAA (13 Jan 2010)

I'd be grateful if anyone could tell me how best to proceed on this problem or if they've had similar experience...

I bought a flat screen LCD TV (well known brand that got great reviews when I initially purchased)) from a well known Irish Electronics shop 2.5 years ago. The screen went out this week (very dark image that's slow to refresh). I did a google search on the problem and found LOTS of people posting the same problem with the same brand of TV after about 2 years of ownership. Some sites said it had to do with a defective part installed in that brand and model of TV. I went back to the shop I bought it from and they said it wasn't covered under warranty and would cost EUR40 to inspect plus repair costs if we chose to go ahead with repair.

I called the manufacturer in the UK and they said their only obligation was for the TV to function for the 12 months it was under warranty and it wasn't their problem. I asked if they were at all concerned that there were lots of comments on the internet about their TVs dying after 2 years and their reply was that they sell several million TVs a year so unless there were several million complaints, they were not concerned about a few hundered. I returned to the shop I bought it from as a prospective TV buyer and asked them how long the TV they were selling should last normally and they said 10 years. 

I understand from the consumer website that a product should last me 8 years, so I think I'm within my rights to demand some compensation for a 600euro TV that only lasts 2 but I don't know what the route of complaint is and what to demand (repair, replacement, compensation for repair costs??). 

Any advice much appreciated!
CAA


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## babaduck (13 Jan 2010)

*Re: Broken 2 year old TV - whose responsible?*

CAA - if the manufacturer's standard warranty has expired, I'd suggest the Small Claims Court.  The retailer will not be given credit by them for repairing, replacing or refunding the item, so this is probably your best course of action.


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## roker (13 Jan 2010)

*Re: Broken 2 year old TV - whose responsible?*

AFIK the 1 year warranty is only a manufacturers warranty, and they always quote that an item is out of warrant after this period, the TV should last a resonable time, I think 5 years (look up the Consumer site) legally you can claim against them but this may take Small Claims Court action.
You could help us by telling us what make it is.


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## JoeB (13 Jan 2010)

*Re: Broken 2 year old TV - whose responsible?*

Well, while your warranty has expired you may still be due some comeback, although you may have to fight a little.

Basically when you bought the TV you had a reasonable expectation that it'd last longer than two years, and you'd be correct really, given it's a 600 Euro TV. So you can query your manufacturer as to whether the TV was ever of merchantable quality. It's also a good idea to ask the manufacturer if there's any known design faults, or if many people are suffering from the same problem which might require a re-call of all the TVs... sometimes the manufacturer will come to realise that it's easier to pay you off than to fight you...

Basically you'd be threatening the retailer that you'd be taking a case in the small claims court, and that once there you'll be claiming that the TV was never of merchantable quality, that you are entitled to expect a high end TV to last longer than 2 years, regardless of warranty period... the judge may side with you, although at the same time he may not... 

On brands, not all TVs are the same.. and so the consumer must expect a 1,000 Euro TV to be better than a 200 Euro TV, assuming specs are otherwise very similar... so it might not be reasonable to expect a 200 Euro TV to last more than 2 years whereas it would be reasonable to expect a 1,000 TV to last longer...


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## mcaul (14 Jan 2010)

*Re: Broken 2 year old TV - whose responsible?*

if its known as a manufacturing fault then it must be repaired free of charge until such time considered a reasonable time for the average use of that product.

In the case of a TV 5 years + would be seen as reasonable.

I had a problem with an Isuzu trooper a few years back, it was 2 years out of warranty, but a known fault and it caused the engine to require replacement. There was no question of payment being required and a new engine was installed free. - same basis should apply to a TV.


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## MrMan (14 Jan 2010)

*Re: Broken 2 year old TV - whose responsible?*

what size and brand is it?


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## foxylady (26 Jan 2010)

has anyone gone to the small claims court or know how long it takes to be resolved. I have a tv problem as well and they only want to repair the tv this is second time it broke and I just want my money back.


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## horse7 (26 Jan 2010)

could you pm me with the brand name please,or put it on web site.ta.


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## foxylady (26 Jan 2010)

horse7 said:


> could you pm me with the brand name please,or put it on web site.ta.


 
Bush


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## roker (26 Jan 2010)

Small claims court took 15 weeks when I used it last year, but it depends on the which area you use.


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## foxylady (27 Jan 2010)

roker said:


> Small claims court took 15 weeks when I used it last year, but it depends on the which area you use.


 

Did u receive a favourable result and would you recommend it


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2010)

There is no reason I can think of that people can't name the make and brand.  

This would be an interesting one for an internet vote, have you purchased a flat screen tv and did it break down after 2 years etc.  

I've noticed that many people seem to have problems with the new TV types.


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## micamaca (27 Jan 2010)

I caught a few minutes of the Afternoon Show on RTE 1 yesterday. It was dealing with consumer complaints and it had a woman on who had bought some fancy tv four years ago and it was now broken. Manufacturer warranty ran out after one year...what should she do?  

Well, consumer advice person said she should get out her receipt and go back to the retailer, as it would be assumed that a tv would last longer than four years...I think it cost 1000 euros at the time. The onus falls on the retailer to do something. Ring a consumer advice helpline to get some advice before you do...or better still, email them and bring a printed copy of the email to the retailer. The Small Claims Court costs very little and as far as I understand it, you don't have to go to court but the retailer does.

Hope you still have your receipt!


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## demoivre (27 Jan 2010)

Over what time frame can you reasonably expect any recourse from the retailer? We have a 32" LCD tv that has suddenly stopped working - cost €950 just under four years ago which is outside the warranty.


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## colm5 (27 Jan 2010)

micamaca said:


> Hope you still have your receipt!


 
I was told that you can also use credit card statements etc.. that you don't need the actual reciept.


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## MrMan (27 Jan 2010)

When people spend money on a TV and it states one year warranty why then the upset when it goes after 4 years? Surely that's to be expected from electronics otherwise the standard warranty would be much longer.


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## WaterSprite (27 Jan 2010)

MrMan said:


> When people spend money on a TV and it states one year warranty why then the upset when it goes after 4 years? Surely that's to be expected from electronics otherwise the standard warranty would be much longer.



What a manufacturer offers as a warranty has little to do with the legal requirements of consumer legislation.  So viewing all manufacturers' warranties and inferring from there that, because they are all of similar lengths of time, that period represents the useful life of the product concerned is putting the cart before the horse IMO.

Consumer legislation requires that products be "...as durable as it is reasonable to expect, having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all other relevant circumstances..."

The period of warranty is one of the factors to take into account when assessing how durable a product is reasonably to be expected.  I would not consider 2 years to be a reasonable length of time for an expensive TV to last, even if the manufacturer's warranty was a year, 6 months, 3 months or whatever.

OP (and others with duff TVs), I'd contact the NCA and go from there.  Small claims is probably the best option if all else fails.


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## Leo (27 Jan 2010)

MrMan said:


> When people spend money on a TV and it states one year warranty why then the upset when it goes after 4 years? Surely that's to be expected from electronics otherwise the standard warranty would be much longer.


 
So you'd be happy enough if a 2k+ television failed after 12 months use?


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## MrMan (27 Jan 2010)

Leo said:


> So you'd be happy enough if a 2k+ television failed after 12 months use?



I would expect a longer warranty ifI was going to spend serious money. I wouldn't be happy with any failure, nobody would, i just believe that if you are buying a product and you ask how long is this TV/car etc covered why expect longer?


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## MrMan (27 Jan 2010)

WaterSprite said:


> What a manufacturer offers as a warranty has little to do with the legal requirements of consumer legislation.  So viewing all manufacturers' warranties and inferring from there that, because they are all of similar lengths of time, that period represents the useful life of the product concerned is putting the cart before the horse IMO.
> 
> Consumer legislation requires that products be "...as durable as it is reasonable to expect, having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all other relevant circumstances..."
> 
> ...



It really depends on what you consider expensive. If you spend 1k on a 50" TV then it would seem quite cheap for what your getting. 
Different manufacturers offer different warranties 1,3,5 so that would suggest you get what you pay for, even though that is not always the case


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## Leo (27 Jan 2010)

MrMan said:


> I would expect a longer warranty ifI was going to spend serious money. I wouldn't be happy with any failure, nobody would, i just believe that if you are buying a product and you ask how long is this TV/car etc covered why expect longer?


 
Interesting logic. So if I decide to treat myself to a top of the line 100k BMW 5 series, I should accept that it is only likely to last 2 years????

You'll be doing very well to find anything other than a 1 year warranty on a TV, even on top of the range models from the premium brands.


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## MrMan (28 Jan 2010)

Leo said:


> Interesting logic. So if I decide to treat myself to a top of the line 100k BMW 5 series, I should accept that it is only likely to last 2 years????
> 
> You'll be doing very well to find anything other than a 1 year warranty on a TV, even on top of the range models from the premium brands.


Panasonic 5yr, Pioneer 5yr, Sony 3 yr.
Why have a warranty at all if people are expecting come back 3 yrs after the warranty is finished.


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## WaterSprite (28 Jan 2010)

MrMan said:


> Panasonic 5yr, Pioneer 5yr, Sony 3 yr.
> Why have a warranty at all if people are expecting come back 3 yrs after the warranty is finished.



It's comparing apples and oranges, I think.  Why does *the company* have a warranty if *people* are expecting to come back after the warranty expires?  

Consumers have a right to expect reasonable durability from a product.  Whether the manufacturer offers a warranty that matches up with that term is neither here nor there.  This is clearly set out in consumer legislation.   

The only question is what time period it is reasonable to expect a TV (in this case) to last for.  That question cannot be answered solely by looking at what a manufacturer offers.  If a manufacturer offered 6-months warranty, a consumer can still come back if it's unreasonable.  If a manufacturer offers a 10-year warranty, that would be in addition to the basic consumer rights, if the reasonable duration for that product was e.g. 5 years.


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## Leo (28 Jan 2010)

MrMan said:


> Panasonic 5yr, Pioneer 5yr, Sony 3 yr.
> Why have a warranty at all if people are expecting come back 3 yrs after the warranty is finished.


 
Panasonic's standard warranty on TVs is 1 year. They had a promotion recently that offered 5 year warranties on top of the line Viera models in some stores, but this expired in July '09.  Pioneer 5 year warranty was also a limited offer, only applied to 8 models in certain stores, this ended on Dec 31st. Sony 3-year guarantee only applies to certain models as well. 

A warranty offers rights above and beyond those required by law, and is a bonus for consumers.


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## MrMan (29 Jan 2010)

Leo said:


> Panasonic's standard warranty on TVs is 1 year. They had a promotion recently that offered 5 year warranties on top of the line Viera models in some stores, but this expired in July '09.  Pioneer 5 year warranty was also a limited offer, only applied to 8 models in certain stores, this ended on Dec 31st. Sony 3-year guarantee only applies to certain models as well.
> 
> A warranty offers rights above and beyond those required by law, and is a bonus for consumers.


Panasonic 5 Year promo ended at Christmas, but they do it a couple of times a year and it was available on all Pan TV's. AFAIK the same applies to Sony with regard range and their promo is still going.


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## jack2009 (29 Jan 2010)

TV's are supposed to last longer than 12 months and if a manufacturer receives several complaints of a similiar nature then there was obviously something wrong with the TV.  Therefore the manufactures are responsible for supplying goods that were not suitable for their purpose and they should be arranging a replacement.

The period of warranty should not make any difference if there is a fault.

If we all went out and bought blah brand that had a 12 month guarantee but it turned out to have a common fault in month 15 or whenever we would still have a claim.  Furthermore from my experience (not with a TV) the manufacturer admitted that there was a manufacture fault and replaced our old fridge with a new improved model after a few phone calls and follow up letters.


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## shesells (17 May 2011)

Bumping this thread up again because I have a similar issue...albeit with a slightly older set.

Have a Samsung LCD TV that's not quite four years old. Cost in 2007 was €2,399  (we had it at the time, now would be a different matter). Similar problem to the OP, picture is gone, we just have sound. The Google fairy brings up hundreds of pages with the same problem BUT Samsung insist "it's not a known problem".

At that kind of money it's not something I anticipated replacing or repairing after 3.5 years...it was bought in DID, and we purposely opted for a "reputable" brand in the hope of getting a good set.

Have replied to their email refusing to accept that it's not a known problem..is the next stop repair and SCC, or DID, or just pay for the repair and suck it up. A new equivalent set would cost €695 or so (if I had it!)


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## elcato (17 May 2011)

How much is the repair going to cost ? If it was under 50 quid I would be happy to pay that.


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## shesells (17 May 2011)

No idea...other threads around the net have said €40-50 inspection fee and then a couple of hundred to fix it, which them brings the issue as to cost effectiveness. I really don't think that's acceptable for a TV that cost so much so recently.


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## roker (17 May 2011)

Could the original post tell us what make it is that has a common fault?

I think the price of  TV depends on market conditions not quality. My 30 inch Samsung cost over €1,200  2 ½ year ago, a similar TV now cost about €6 to 7 hundred.

The maker with any product always say it's out of the 1 yr warranty, they just said that with my 2 ½ year washing machine when the bearings failed, I would expect it to last a lot longer.


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## shesells (17 May 2011)

The OP posted that their problem set was Bush, mine is Samsung.


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## PetrolHead (18 May 2011)

shesells said:


> Bumping this thread up again because I have a similar issue...albeit with a slightly older set.
> 
> Have a Samsung LCD TV that's not quite four years old. Cost in 2007 was €2,399  (we had it at the time, now would be a different matter). Similar problem to the OP, picture is gone, we just have sound. The Google fairy brings up hundreds of pages with the same problem BUT Samsung insist "it's not a known problem".
> 
> ...



Just because the product is out of manufacturer's warranty doesn't mean you have no comeback. If a product goes wrong inside a time frame that it could have been 'reasonably expected' not to go wrong then you can press for repairs. I can't remember the exact wording but have a look on the citizens information website.


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## chasm (30 May 2011)

shesells said:


> Bumping this thread up again because I have a similar issue...albeit with a slightly older set.
> 
> Have a Samsung LCD TV that's not quite four years old. Cost in 2007 was €2,399  (we had it at the time, now would be a different matter). Similar problem to the OP, picture is gone, we just have sound. The Google fairy brings up hundreds of pages with the same problem BUT Samsung insist "it's not a known problem".
> 
> ...



You bought the tv from DID so your contract is with them, the TV is not fit for purpose and as such DID should offer you one of the three Rs, repair, replace or refund. Regardless of whether it is a known problem or not, the tv does not work now so it is up to DID to remedy the situation. Do not let them fob you off!!!

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Shopping/guarantees.html


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## Ray_Con (8 Jun 2011)

My LG 37" LCD TV has just started to go belly up too. It's 2.5yrs old and has started to give major problems powering up, dimm picture and no sound - all within the last 2 weeks. I did a quick search on various forums like After Dawn, Fix Ya and there's hundreds of similar issues reported with LG TV's ... a common theme seems to be faulty / bad capacitors.
Ive written to the shop explaining that while I realise the TV is out of "warranty" - the Sales Of Goods Act 1980 "*does not stipulate a time limit for the return of faulty goods*, it is the consumer's responsibility to act promptly, bearing in mind the cost and *expected lifespan or "shelf life" of the product*" - as such I don't believe 2.5yrs is an acceptable lifespan for a €600 TV. I have asked if they will accept the TV back and send it for repair.
Im awaiting a reply ...


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## foxylady (8 Jun 2011)

Ray_Con said:


> My LG 37" LCD TV has just started to go belly up too. It's 2.5yrs old and has started to give major problems powering up, dimm picture and no sound - all within the last 2 weeks. I did a quick search on various forums like After Dawn, Fix Ya and there's hundreds of similar issues reported with LG TV's ... a common theme seems to be faulty / bad capacitors.
> Ive written to the shop explaining that while I realise the TV is out of "warranty" - the Sales Of Goods Act 1980 "*does not stipulate a time limit for the return of faulty goods*, it is the consumer's responsibility to act promptly, bearing in mind the cost and *expected lifespan or "shelf life" of the product*" - as such I don't believe 2.5yrs is an acceptable lifespan for a €600 TV. I have asked if they will accept the TV back and send it for repair.
> Im awaiting a reply ...


 
I had a similar problme last year although the tv wasnot outside the warranty-I did have a lot of trouble getting it sorted as firstky they fixed it and it broke again and I dint want it fixed again as it was obviously faulty - at the end of the day I took my claim to the small claims court for €15 and received my money back .So if all elsefails maybe go down this route. Best of luck


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## Ray_Con (10 Jun 2011)

^ Thanks - The shop agreed straight away to accept it back and have the LG Service Technicians examine it. Im now awaiting their report and see what happens next. Hopefull it gets fixed and I don't have to go back and forth with fault / repair / fault / repair ... etc.


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## Ray_Con (10 Jun 2011)

Alas - to good to be true ... the shop contacted me today to say the Service Technician has confirmed the power supply is blown and repair will be €150. I declined repair. Looks like I'll have to argue my case that 2.5yrs is not an acceptable lifespan for a €600 TV.


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## BillK (10 Jun 2011)

My local Panasonic dealer (English Midlands) has had a five year warranty on Viera TV's for the last four years, which is when I bought ours. The five year warranties are still on offer on these TV's.


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## Ray_Con (15 Jun 2011)

Ray_Con said:


> Alas - to good to be true ... the shop contacted me today to say the Service Technician has confirmed the power supply is blown and repair will be €150. I declined repair. Looks like I'll have to argue my case that 2.5yrs is not an acceptable lifespan for a €600 TV.


 
Emailed my "case" to the shop's HQ , no response after 5 days. Looks like I'll take my broken TV back from them and go the Small Claims Court route.


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## foxylady (24 Jun 2011)

Ray_Con said:


> Emailed my "case" to the shop's HQ , no response after 5 days. Looks like I'll take my broken TV back from them and go the Small Claims Court route.


 

Best of Luck - let us know how you get on. When I went to them they dealt with the matter very quickly


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## Ray_Con (6 Jul 2011)

Well after 3 weeks of to-ing and fro-ing, culminating in a Letter of Complaint to the Managing Director, the shop agreed to repair my TV free of charge.


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## shesells (11 Aug 2011)

Am gonna have to go down a similar route myself now too...TV has gone for the third time in a year. Got a technician out from the Samsung recommended company today and the TV is uneconomical to repair. It's 4 years old tomorrow.


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## shesells (15 Aug 2011)

In good news..Samsung are going to replace our TV


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## JP1234 (16 Aug 2011)

Well done on that. We are having a similar issue with Sony with a 3 year old TV,,,getting nowhere fast with them.


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