# Roy Keane: A Crap Football Manager?



## Shawady (7 Jan 2011)

I wonder if Roy Keane regrets calling Mick McCarthy "a crap football manager"?
Given Roy's high standards, he must put himself in that category now.


[broken link removed]


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## Sue Ellen (7 Jan 2011)

Ah, but through thick and thin the guys still love him


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## Betsy Og (7 Jan 2011)

He's obviously not a people skills guy so its no great surprise that management isnt his thing. I think he overthinks it a bit as well, for instance at Sunderland there was no necessity for him to go at that time.

Re the exchange with Mick, he'd just been accused of faking injury so you can take it he was very much in the red zone and I dont think rational analysis underpinned his comments......

The usual flawed thing, can we get a few Irish heroes who arent flakey or drugged up to their eyeballs?


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## MrMan (7 Jan 2011)

Year one: He picks Sunderland from last place after 5 games and wins the championship in his first season.

Year two: Keeps Sunderland in the Premiership.

Year three: Resigns leaving Sunderland still in the Premeirship.

Year four: Poor season with Ipswich by previous standards.

Year five: Sacked mid season leaving ipswich in the bottom half of the  table, but in what has been a very tight season the team are still only  11 points from play offs and of course are due to play Arsenal in the  semi-final of the Carling Cup.

So a crap manager? hardly, but he does seem to get judged on the  character of Roy Keane that has been built over the years rather than  actual achievements.

We should be encouraging young Irish managers to make real success in  football, Keane has yet to reach 40 and there are plenty who would love  to write him off unfortunately.


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## Staples (7 Jan 2011)

I think the point of the original post was that it's perhaps more apparent to him that football management isn't as easy as he thought it would be.  

He's clearly very committed though and it will be interesting to see whether he packs it in or tries again.


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## DB74 (7 Jan 2011)

Bit selective there MrMan

Sunderland were terrible in the year that Keane jumped before he was pushed and Ipswich have been terrible since he took over at Portman Road.

I backed Ipswich to get promoted last season on 05-Nov at 50/1 when they were in the relegation zone (possibly even rock bottom) and they just never got going, despite several opportunities to pick up 3 points they kept drawing matches. Same story this year.

In 2.5 seasons of management with Sunderland and 1.5 with Ipswich, Keane has had one good season. The rest have been mediocre, at best.

PS - I'm firmly in the Keane camp in terms of the 2002 Saipan debacle but, at the moment, he is notas good a manager as he was a player


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## duchalla (7 Jan 2011)

good player, crap manager...


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## Staples (7 Jan 2011)

Bear in mind also that the previous Ipswich manger was sacked because the team didn't make the play-offs for promotion.  They've worsened under Keane.


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## tiger (7 Jan 2011)

So far, a better player than manager.
As for Saipan, I think there's a difference between being right and doing the right thing.
(Are we allowed to talk about Saipan?  )


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## ringledman (8 Jan 2011)

duchalla said:


> good player, crap manager...


 
And crap player, good manager.

The rule almost everytime.

Crap players seem to have a desire to make something of their career in management, especially if they are Scottish.

Likewise a lot of players seem to think they can strole into management. 

The two fields require such different skills and aptitude.


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## MrMan (8 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> Bit selective there MrMan
> 
> Sunderland were terrible in the year that Keane jumped before he was pushed and Ipswich have been terrible since he took over at Portman Road.
> 
> ...



Ok so the first 2 years of his 2.5 years at sunderland were a success. The wage bill has actually reduced since he has been at portman road, so its fair to assume that things didn't happen as expected, but it hasn't worked out this time, but I would hope that he has another crack at it. There are so many hacks like Cascarino and Lawernson enjoying this failure of his that I would enjoy seeing him come through as a good manager in the end.
Nobody can expect to be considered great straight away. 
Steve Bruce is a player that has shown that with time great players can adapt to management at a high level.


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## Lak (10 Jan 2011)

Perhaps if he could get over his fixation with filling his team with Irishmen and broadened his horizons a little he may be more successfull. No big side will want Keane, or any side with ambition and a Chairman with deep pockets, because Compare Keane with the likes of O'Driscoll at Doncaster and Holloway at Blackpool, when it comes to building a competetive squad and the monies spent the other two knock Keane into a cocked hat.
If you want to follow an aspiring up and coming Irish manager, watch O'Driscoll blossom, Keane is useless......and more !!!!!!


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## Bill Struth (10 Jan 2011)

ringledman said:


> And crap player, good manager.
> 
> The rule almost everytime.
> 
> ...


 Like who?


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## Lak (10 Jan 2011)

How about Gordon Strachan !


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## elefantfresh (11 Jan 2011)

Strachan was a decent footballer and not the worst manager.


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## Deiseblue (11 Jan 2011)

Sir Alex Ferguson was a very average player who after a disastrous game against Celtic never played for the ' Gers again but went on to have a reasonable career as a manager !

Far better than his brother Martin ( United's chief European scout ) who was a crap player and manager with Waterford & was eventually run out of town.

Jock Stein was no more than an average player but was a great manager.


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## Lak (11 Jan 2011)

My error...I read the post as Good players/crap managers, rather than :
*Crap players seem to have a desire to make something of their career in management, especially if they are Scottish.*

Gordon strachan of course was far from a crap player, but a poor manager.


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## Ceist Beag (11 Jan 2011)

legs-akimbo said:


> Gordon strachan of course was far from a crap player, but a poor manager.



Gordon Strachan was far from a poor manager! He had a better record at Celtic than Martin O'Neill. He just started to take himself too seriously after that (travelling the world studying soccer in other countries to try and improve his own management style) rather than having faith in his own abilities.


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## Shawady (11 Jan 2011)

The most successful managers of the premiership era are Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho. Interestingly, none of them successful footballers.


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## Staples (11 Jan 2011)

Shawady said:


> The most successful managers of the premiership era are Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho. Interestingly, none of them successful footballers.


 
It always amuses me when it's suggested that Ferguson and Wenger were failures as footballers.  Both of them played professionally which means they were a lot better than average and this undoubtedly gave them an edge when they moved into management.


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## Shawady (11 Jan 2011)

I would not say they are complete failures as players but their achievements are certainly modest in comparison to their success in management, both the most successful managers their clubs have had.


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## notagardener (11 Jan 2011)

To answer the OP's original question, Yes I do think he regrets making that comment about McCarthy, but Roy being Roy will probably never admit it.

With regard to great players not making great managers, I think Kenny Dalglish's record stands up as a manager. 4 1st division/premiership championships, 2 FA Cups, 4 Charity Shields , a Scottish League Cup and who knows what may happen with his new role.

Bit of trivia: Dalglish is only the third manager in the history of the game to lead two different clubs to league championships, Herbert Chapman (Arsenal and Huddersfield Town) and Brian Clough (Derby County and Nottingham Forest) being the others


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## DB74 (11 Jan 2011)

Staples said:


> It always amuses me when it's suggested that Ferguson and Wenger were failures as footballers. Both of them played professionally which means they were a lot better than average and this undoubtedly *gave them an edge when they moved into management*.


 
I disagree

Being a player (good or otherwise) doesn't necessarily mean that you will be a good manager.


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## Caveat (11 Jan 2011)

Indeed. Surely managing is managing?

Assuming you are not totally clueless about the sport surely anyone who has an understanding and has good managerial and people skills would make a good job of it. Don't necessarily have to have _ever_ played really IMO. I'm sure it's an advantage but not critical.


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## elefantfresh (11 Jan 2011)

> Assuming you are not totally clueless about the sport surely anyone who  has an understanding and has good managerial and people skills would  make a good job of it.



LOL! You should see my Fantasy Football team! Its glaringly obvious I don't have a clue!


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## Staples (11 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> IndeedI'm sure it's an advantage but not critical.


 
Eh..isn't that what I said?

Good managers will always be good managers but surely it helps to have been directly exposed to how football is structured and played at the highest level.


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## Caveat (11 Jan 2011)

> Eh..isn't that what I said?


A bit. Not exactly. I'm suggesting that you don't need to have even played. Ever.

Anyway, not contradicting you - just adding my two cents, that's all.


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## TarfHead (11 Jan 2011)

notagardener said:


> 4 Charity Shields , a Scottish League Cup


 
4 Charity Shields, a Scottish League Cup 

Fixed that for ya 



notagardener said:


> Bit of trivia: Dalglish is only the third manager in the history of the game


 
"in the history of *English football* "

Fixed that one for ya too  I think The Special One would diagree with the statement you posted. And Sir Red Nose. And Van Gaal.  And others too.


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## Lak (11 Jan 2011)

Ceist Beag said:


> Gordon Strachan was far from a poor manager! He had a better record at Celtic than Martin O'Neill. He just started to take himself too seriously after that (travelling the world studying soccer in other countries to try and improve his own management style) rather than having faith in his own abilities.


 
Managing Celtic and only having to better the one solitary other side in a very poor Scottish league no better than the English League one does not quantify him as a good manager, he also  achieved a modicum of success at Southampton (cup final loss to Man Utd) but was sacked by both Coventry and more recently Middlesborough for errrr....being crap.
If he is a good manager lets see just which high profile position he takes up next ?


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## Bill Struth (11 Jan 2011)

legs-akimbo said:


> Managing Celtic and only having to better the one solitary other side in a very poor Scottish league no better than the English League one does not quantify him as a good manager, he also achieved a modicum of success at Southampton (cup final loss to Man Utd) but was sacked by both Coventry and more recently Middlesborough for errrr....being crap.
> If he is a good manager lets see just which high profile position he takes up next ?


2nd round of the champions league beating man utd on the way and only going out to ac milan in extra time says he's a better manager than you're giving him credit for.

He also won 3 league titles in a row with Celtic, something not done since Jock Stein was in charge.


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## elefantfresh (11 Jan 2011)

*Reporter*: So, Gordon, in what areas do you think Middlesbrough were better than you today? 
*Strachan*: What areas? Mainly that big green one out there...


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## Bill Struth (11 Jan 2011)

elefantfresh said:


> *Reporter*: So, Gordon, in what areas do you think Middlesbrough were better than you today?
> *Strachan*: What areas? Mainly that big green one out there...


 

Some great quotes out there from him! I could actually listen to him talk about football all day. Much better than the bland, boring cliche ridden 'analysis' of Shearer, Hansen, Gray etc.


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## Lak (11 Jan 2011)

I will concede he did ok with Celtic, but I could never count league success in such a poor league as a massive achievement, if he was such a good or even half decent gaffer he would have had Middlesborough in contention at the very least considering the cash he was allowed to spend. He never pulled up any trees in the Premiership either.
As I have mentioned...Do take note of O'Driscoll, that man is destined to do very well  !


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## RMCF (11 Jan 2011)

As a player, a legend.

As a manager, jury still out. But not looking great for him. Hope he gets the Utd job some day!!


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## notagardener (12 Jan 2011)

TarfHead said:


> 4 Charity Shields, a Scottish League Cup
> 
> Fixed that for ya
> 
> ...


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## Bill Struth (12 Jan 2011)

notagardener said:


> TarfHead said:
> 
> 
> > 4 Charity Shields, a Scottish League Cup
> ...


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## MrMan (12 Jan 2011)

Bill Struth said:


> 2nd round of the champions league beating man utd on the way and only going out to ac milan in extra time says he's a better manager than you're giving him credit for.
> 
> He also won 3 league titles in a row with Celtic, something not done since Jock Stein was in charge.


 
If you just left it at the last two lines it would sound better, but reaching the second round of anything doesn't sound like a roaring sucess. 
York city bet United too, can't remember who their manager was and they went to the 4th round!


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## Bill Struth (13 Jan 2011)

MrMan said:


> If you just left it at the last two lines it would sound better, but reaching the second round of anything doesn't sound like a roaring sucess.
> York city bet United too, can't remember who their manager was and they went to the 4th round!


 I never said it was a "roaring success", I was making the point that a crap manager wouldn't get a team playing in a crap league out of the group stage of the champions league.


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## Bill Struth (13 Jan 2011)

Good article here by Richard Sadlier on Keane:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-approach-doesnt-impress-players-2489416.html


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## MrMan (14 Jan 2011)

Bill Struth said:


> I never said it was a "roaring success", I was making the point that a crap manager wouldn't get a team playing in a crap league out of the group stage of the champions league.


 
ok i withdraw roaring from my post..


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## MrMan (14 Jan 2011)

Bill Struth said:


> Good article here by Richard Sadlier on Keane:
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-approach-doesnt-impress-players-2489416.html


 
Good to see Sadlier taking up the position of managerial expert. So many managers not understanding why they were sacked, sure they only needed to contact Richie and he would open their eyes.
As for fining a player who questions you in public, well thats fair game. Giving individual out of context gossip and then finishing with claiming that so far that Keane is a failure probably lies closer to Richies personal feelings on Roy rather than any real football analysis.


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