# Has anyone actually switched banks to avail of a lower rate?



## stefg (3 Dec 2014)

_*Copied from another thread - Brendan *_

I have just switched from AIB to KBC for my current account as we took a mortgage with them and wanted the reduced mortgage offer.

I have found KBC to be excellent so far, customer service is excellent as they are very responsive and helpful.  Their online offering is not as comprehensive as the AIB one but it is sufficient for my needs.  I like the ability to use my phone to make payments rather than having to use the AIB calculator-like card reader.  The quarterly fees and transaction charges are much lower when compared to what I was paying to AIB.

KBC also provided us with free house insurance for 1 year with our mortage.

I have also switched my credit card because they offer 1% back on groceries and online purchases up to €10 a month.  I clear the card each month so I'm not sure if their credit charges are higher but it made sense for me to have my credit card and current account in the same bank and to get something back on my spending.

The one thing I have found a little more difficult is to get large amounts of cash.  They are a cashless bank so you can only withdraw cash on your card up to a limit of €700 a day and you can't call into a bank to get more.  I recently needed to pay for something in cash and had to transfer money electronically and then visit a bank.

Overall I'm a lot more satisfied with KBC than I was with AIB.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jan 2015)

KBC and AIB say that they are actively open to taking on customers from other lenders. 

Has anyone actually moved? 

Has anyone applied and been refused? 

It has been suggested to me that they are only pretending to be interested, but I don't think that is correct. 

Brendan


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## shweeney (6 Jan 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> KBC and AIB say that they are actively open to taking on customers from other lenders.
> 
> Has anyone actually moved?
> 
> ...



I spoke to a guy in KBC a few months back, but was only offered about 60% of the amount I currently owe BOI, so couldn't go any further with it.  

When we originally got our mortgage a little under 3 years ago, AIB offered us less than a third of the amount we needed so I haven't even bothered looking into switching to them (also KBC will pay your legal fees, AIB won't so the savings don't really add up).  

We're single income with kids, so despite a pretty low LTV (< 60% I'd say) we're apparently not an appealing prospect to some of the banks.  Considering BOIs new fixed rates as I can't see Richie Boucher making any concessions on the SVR in the near future - that guy is hard as nails


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## Subotai (6 Jan 2015)

I switched in November from Bank of Ireland to KBC. My original BOI mortgage was a <80% LTV mortgage at a rate of 4.05% for a house I bought in Dublin in 2012. With the recent increase in house prices i revalued the house, and I was able to get a <60% LTV mortgage with KBC at a rate of 3.65%. This has resulted in a saving of €97 a month for me. 

My legal fees for switching were about €1,200, but KBC paid €1,000 towards this. So I made back the cost of switching in two months.


I didn't find KBC very well organised, as i had to submit the same documentation to them multiple times, and they were about two weeks late in releasing the funds, due to “internal systems failure”, but we got there in the end.


However, since I switched, they have cut their rates, but only for new customers. So if I switched today, I’d get a rate of 3.55%, instead of the 3.65% I am on now. Oh well!


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## gnf_ireland (6 Jan 2015)

I visited KBC today to discuss the switching option with them. They ran the figures through their internal calculators and they believe it should not be a problem with it.  

I now need to complete the application, but the only caveat on this is it must be a joint application with my wife as they don't do single applications on family homes. My wife has a house in negative equity, so that may cause a little issue for us but will see. I am also waiting on my latest mortgage statement from BOI

Once this is done they advised they will come back within a week with some news. *Hopefully I will be able to update you on this at that stage.*

I am on a SVR with BOI of 4.35% and the KBC rate rate is 3.55% (LTV <60%) for a house purchased in 2011. The 1k towards legal fees and free house insurance for a year should balance out any legal costs associated with moving in my case.


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## sundance (6 Jan 2015)

Hi Brendan, 
I am new to your site and have to say it is very informative,
A hugh well done to you on highlighting the issue of the very high SVR's. 
Just to say I have tried to switch my PPR from Dilosk over to KBC but didnt get anywhere, 

 I have called my bank - formerly ICS - now taken over by Dilosk and have pleaded with them to give me a lower SVR, They told me that I am one of the lucky ones as I am on a rate of 4.5% compared to their normal SVR of 4.8%.
I explained to Dilosk that we have never missed a repayment and the LTV is <60%.

They told me the reason they can’t give a lower SVR was due to "validation", I then asked to speak to a manager there as the agent was unable to explain what "validation" meant. The manager just talked about the cost of funds, etc and that the credit committee voted no to my request. 
I then called KBC and enquired about switching over to them, and moving my current acc also in order to get a rate of 3.65% .
They were very interested until they heard we had a few BTL's with BOI which are in NE even though we have never missed one repayment on them. 
Am I right in saying that due to having BTL's with NE with BOI, we are now stuck with Dilosk for our PPR paying this ridiculously high SVR. 
Is Dilosk part of ICS still as I see on their letters they are called ICS Mortgages, and if something does happen whereby the government miraculously intervenes would Dilosk be regarded as one of the banks that would have to abide by the lowering of the SVR. 
I for one would be on for marching against the high SVR – Do you think anything will happen for us 300,000 people on SVR’s. 
Can you see anything being done at all ? Once again THANKS for highlighting this issue and its great to know that there is someone on our side, I hope your campaign starts to gather momentum at a rapid pace. Living in hope here.


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## pguyo (6 Jan 2015)

sundance said:


> Hi Brendan,
> I am new to your site and have to say it is very informative,
> A hugh well done to you on highlighting the issue of the very high SVR's.
> Just to say I have tried to switch my PPR from Dilosk over to KBC but didnt get anywhere,
> ...



I too have the same issue with Dilosk. Although while on the phone today i mentioned of switching to KBC and the person I was speaking to said be sure to come back to them before switching. My wife and I have 1 BTL in negative equity of around €100,000 so KBC probably wont be interested as we also have a 2 children with my wife on carers leave for another few months but going back full time in April. Both public sector employees but the BTL probably snookers us.

I now feel we are at the mercy of DILOSK who could up the SVR at any stage.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jan 2015)

sundance said:


> Am I right in saying that due to having BTL's with NE with BOI, we are now stuck with Dilosk for our PPR paying this ridiculously high SVR.
> Is Dilosk part of ICS still as I see on their letters they are called ICS Mortgages, and if something does happen whereby the government miraculously intervenes would Dilosk be regarded as one of the banks that would have to abide by the lowering of the SVR.



Hi sundance

Thanks for your encouragement. I am delighted to see some people getting worked up by this.

As I understand it, Dilosk took over ICS from Bank of Ireland. So that is why they use that name.  I am not sure that you will get anywhere with Dilosk. They presumably know that you are in negative equity and so they can exploit you as you can't move. 

Have you tried AIB and ptsb?  I think you will get the same answer, but give them a shot. And you could also try Bank of Ireland. I presume that they are not barred from competing for Dilosk customers? 

I don't expect the government to intervene because no one is putting any pressure on them.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jan 2015)

pguyo said:


> Although while on the phone today i mentioned of switching to KBC and the person I was speaking to said be sure to come back to them before switching.



This is very insulting to you.  If you have only one BTL in NE and if you have plenty of equity in your PPR, it makes no sense to turn you away. Having said that, a lot of the lenders' decisions make no sense.

Brendan


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## Marley (22 Jan 2015)

We are in the process of switching from AIB (LTV 50%>80%) to PTSB (LTV <50%) , availing of PTSB €1,000 legal fee contribution.

I Offered AIB the chance to reduce our rate to their LTV<50%, but they declined, only offered their fixed rates which we did not want! 

When we built our house our valuation (AIB approved valuer) gave us a LTV of 54% 3 years ago due to recession hit on house prices, so AIB jumped us from our original pre build valuation of LTV<50% (1 year previously) up to the LTV50%>80% rate, even though we were 4% over the LTV treshold during a house price hit recession. 

I will never bank with AIB again!!!! Robbers!!

KBC is not an option as I need access to a Branch for current a/c, and I do not live near one of their Hubs!


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## Subotai (27 Jan 2015)

Hi Marley,
I wouldn't let the fact that you do not live near a KBC hub stop you from switching to them. I don't live near one either. 
When i switched to them, i had to open one of their current accounts and mandate my salary into it to get the better mortgage rate. 
To get access to my wages, I simply do an electronic transfer on the day i get paid, and send my salary back to my old current account, which is with PTSB.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Feb 2015)

Marley said:


> When we built our house our valuation (AIB approved valuer) gave us a LTV of 54% 3 years ago due to recession hit on house prices, so AIB jumped us from our original pre build valuation of LTV<50% (1 year previously) up to the LTV50%>80% rate, even though we were 4% over the LTV treshold during a house price hit recession.



Hi Marley

The pre-build valuation has nothing to do with it.  Presumably they use the valuation in force when you draw down the mortgage. 

So you will be saving around 0.36%. How big is your mortgage?    AIB has treated customers more fairly than other lenders in that they passed on cuts to the back book. I wouldn't be jumping to ptsb too quickly unless it's a huge mortgage. 

Brendan


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## pguyo (4 Mar 2015)

I have again been onto Dilosk about my 4.35% SVR. Our LTV is approx 60%. I told them KBC will take on the loan at 3.55-3.6% subject to valuation and sitch of my current account and they said they dont want to loose any business and sent me out a Mortagage Modificatiin Request Form. I only got approval over the phone from KBC. I have filled it out and putting it in the post today. Fingers crossed for a reduction or else I am off!


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## Dinarius (4 Mar 2015)

I received correspondence from AIB today.

Basically, if we want any of the LTV rates, we simply indicate which one - < 50% / 3.85% in our case - sign it, and return it.

They will then, presumably, let us know if they need a valuation or not.

D.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Mar 2015)

Dinarius

What sort of rate are you on at present?  Are you currently on a Loan to Value Rate or a Standard Variable Rate? When did you take out your mortgage? 

Brendan


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## michaelm (4 Mar 2015)

I tried to switch from Danske/Pepper to PTSB recently.  I thought (correctly as it transpires) that they would reject the application, despite the fact that it would be well secured (circa. 35% LTV) and met the new Central Bank requirements, because the number of children I have would fall foul of the bank's own inflexible/non-scaling income rules.  The switch would have shaved 0.7% off my SVR saving me some money and would have been handy money for PTSB.


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## shweeney (4 Mar 2015)

PTSB gave me approval in principle, might see if I can get anything out of KBC - last time I asked they couldn't offer me enough to switch.  TBH, I'd be happy sticking with BOI if I can get them to drop their rate - switching is a hassle.


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## pguyo (11 Mar 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> pguyo
> 
> That is very encouraging.    Dilosk is the former ICS bit hived off from Bank of Ireland.
> 
> I presume it is your home as distinct from a buy to let?



I have been offered a 0.4% discount over the full term of the mortgage after. Down to 3.95% SVR but it's still well shy of 3.6%  with KBC....


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## Dinarius (11 Mar 2015)

We received our offer documentation from AIB the other day.

An LTV of <=50%, which is what we would be eligible for, would be 3.85%.

Interestingly, both 2 and 3 year fixed are 3.8%. What does this say about how AIB views rates moving?

I think that they may rise, but then those on trackers will be contributing more.

Alternatively, rates may stay the same, but AIB's need to screw those on variable to subsidize those on trackers may be easing, and the SVR may be lower in a year or two.

Any views?

Thanks.

D.


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## shweeney (24 Mar 2015)

after ringing BOI a few times and being referred for review they eventually told me to get lost 
(well, they offered my their 2 year fixed rate but I'm not fixing for 2 years)

so I'm going to move to PTSB - I can get 1 year fixed @ 3.49 and then onto variable which is currently 3.7.  PTSB will pay 1K towards the legal fees so the move will cost me about 400.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jul 2015)

The Central Bank has told me that only 30 people a month are actually switching.  I am astonished by this.

It would be good for everyone if those who can switch, do switch.  If lenders realise that 99% of borrowers can't overcome their inertia, then they won't implement serious rate cuts.

The only completed case I have found on Askaboutmoney is

*I switched from BoI to KBC*

Has anyone else actually switched their mortgage yet?


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## ClubMan (1 Jul 2015)

Just curious...

Do the CB actually know how many people switch each month? If so - how? Are lenders obliged to report stats on this - every month?
Is there a possibility that large numbers of people simply don't realise (a) when they are getting a poor deal and (b) that switching may be an option for them?


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## HC2015 (1 Jul 2015)

Haven't switched yet but AIB have offered me 3.8% SVR, LTR 60%. Currently with PTSB on SVR of 4.5%. 
Interesting to see what my LTV will get me with PTSB's new rates but, even if I was offered 3.7%, I'd move. Can't wait to be shot of PTSB.


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## Paying2much (1 Jul 2015)

HC2015 said:


> Haven't switched yet but AIB have offered me 3.8% SVR, LTR 60%. Currently with PTSB on SVR of 4.5%.
> Interesting to see what my LTV will get me with PTSB's new rates but, even if I was offered 3.7%, I'd move. Can't wait to be shot of PTSB.


Hi HC2015, I'm with you-as soon as overdraft sorted I'm moving from parasitic PTSB.We've endured years of ridiculous rates where,because we were held captive, we had to pay much more than customers of the other state-owned bank, AIB.Hopefully all those affected in the same way have long memories.I for one won't take their few pieces of silver.


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## Tigerboon (1 Jul 2015)

Hi Brendan, just currently finalising our move from ptsb to Ulster Bank. Were on 4.5 %, moving to 3.8%, now find out could have got 3.7 with perm tsb, haven't heard if UB going to go any lower,but was so fed up with perm tsb that I don't even care, glad to see the back of them, gave them plenty of warning that I would move!


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## Beryl4499 (1 Jul 2015)

Hi All
we were all set to move from KBC to Ulster Bank a couple of months ago but have been hanging on to see what the banks came up with
currently paying 4.3% on a 300k loan, our LTV is 80%, UB offered us 4%
seems like its currently still the best SVR option for us although BOIs fixed rate with the 2% cashback sweetener is interesting
v disappointed with KBC's attitude, they are not interested in negotiating at all
I suspect they feel lots of their customers arent in a position for whatever reason to switch so dont care


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## shweeney (3 Jul 2015)

I would've switched a few months back if the political campaign hadn't started up which has encouraged me to wait and see what happens.  I'm sure there are others also waiting.  Having said that, switching is hassle and expensive - if the govt really wanted to encourage competition in the market they would make it easier and cheaper.


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Jul 2015)

shweeney said:


> if the govt really wanted to encourage competition in the market they would make it easier and cheaper.



What could the government do to make switching easier?


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## shweeney (14 Jul 2015)

Brendan Burgess said:


> What could the government do to make switching easier?



Develop some sort of standardised "switching pack" to reduce the costs?  I know some of the banks are offering cash to pay legal fees but thats at their discretion - e.g. AIB are offering nothing so switching to them is probably not a runner regardless of their rates.


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## Zane99 (14 Jul 2015)

I haven't switched yet. Paying Boi 4.2 variable rate. I'm not sure if we can switch as my wife is on state maternity. She intends to return to work in January. I changed jobs in February and now work for my brother in law in a secure job , my Father originally set up the company 30 years ago.

I bought in 2012 at a really good price and same house has just gone up for sale a few doors down at a huge increase generating lots of interest.


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## ClubMan (15 Jul 2015)

Zane99 said:


> I haven't switched yet. Paying Boi 4.2 variable rate.


Have you asked BoI for a better variable rate?
Or checked their fixed rates? (e.g. 3.6% fixed for 2 years if LTV < 80% - with the usual caveat about fixing being inflexible and being a gamble when rates might fall further...).
What is your LTV?
What rate were you looking at with other lenders?


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## Zane99 (16 Jul 2015)

I've a LTV of 70%. Called Kbc yesterday and they offered 3.66 and I see there legal fee offering went up from €1,000 to €2,000. 

I haven't called BOI yet. Not sure what to do ? Fix with BOI or switch altogether.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2015)

That 3.66% from KBC is the variable APR with the current account discount?
That's 3.6% nominal which is the one to use for comparison here.
That's the same rate from BoI but you have to fix for 2 or 3 years.
Some people think that rates might fall further in the coming months e.g. in the September timeframe - but nobody knows really.
And KBC have a habit of getting new customers in on relatively attractive rates but then once captured they don't let them move to lower rates when these become available for new customers.


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## Zane99 (16 Jul 2015)

Yes that's correct. It's if I switch an account to them
Also BOI wrote to me. Their two year fixed rate is 3.9 APR.

I haven't contacted BOI yet. Kbc looks attractive tho. 

I will save €58 a month. But if I move to them I could still pay my current mortgage payment and be overpaying my mortgage by €58 cause it's variable. 

Still not sure what to do .


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2015)

Forget about APR here - compare the nominal rates.
The BoI 2/3 year fixed rate for somebody on < 80% LTV is 3.6% which is the same as the variable rate on offer from KBC.
But bear in mind the issue about KBC possibly gouging existing customers compared to new customers once they get them in.
My understanding is that BoI allow you to pay a max of €60 p.m. capital without penalty when on a fixed rate (a grand total of €720 p.a. ).
No easy answer here as far as I can see.
You could wait and see what, if any, further rate movements there are in the c. September/budget timeframe....


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## Sarenco (16 Jul 2015)

ClubMan said:


> My understanding is that BoI allow you to pay a max of €60 p.m. capital without penalty when on a fixed rate (a grand total of €720 p.a. ).



I assume you mean that BOI only allow a borrower to overpay (as against the agreed scheduled principal repayments) by €60 per month when on a fixed rate. 

There is obviously nothing stopping a borrower agreeing a shorter loan term when switching or agreeing a split variable/fixed rate LTV mortgage and making additional principal payments against the variable rate loan.

I see no logical reason to hold off on making a switching decision.  Sure, rates and incentives could improve in the future but they could just as easily dis-improve and in the meantime a borrower will needlessly be making higher interest payments. 

Nobody knows in advance whether fixing a mortgage rate at 3.6% (as against opting for a variable rate of 3.6%) will turn out to be the right decision.  The truth is it probably won't make a world of difference either way but, if it was my decision, I would opt for the variable LTV rate.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2015)

Sarenco said:


> I assume you mean that BOI only allow a borrower to overpay (as against the agreed scheduled principal repayments) by €60 per month when on a fixed rate.


Yes - that's why I said overpay by €60 without penalty. Any more than that and you're into fixed rate breakage penalty territory. That's what they told me recently.


> I see no logical reason to hold off on making a switching decision.  Sure, rates and incentives could improve in the future but they could just as easily dis-improve and in the meantime a borrower will needlessly be making higher interest payments.


Not even how KBC treat customers once they have them inside the tent?


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## Sarenco (16 Jul 2015)

ClubMan said:


> Yes - that's why I said overpay by €60 without penalty. Any more than that and you're into fixed rate breakage penalty territory. That's what they told me recently.
> 
> Not even how KBC treat customers once they have them inside the tent?


 
Sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic but you actually said that BOI only allow you to "pay a max of €60 p.m. capital without penalty when on a fixed" - I assume BOI allow (and expect) fixed rate borrowers to make whatever scheduled principal repayments have been agreed at the time the loan is advanced *plus* a max of €60 p.m.

The competitive pressure that prevents all lenders from charging excessively high rates on outstanding variable rate loans is the possibility that borrowers will simply refinance their loans at a cheaper rate with another lender.  If I had a reasonably low LTV, I would be fairly confident that I could switch mortgage provider again in the future if I took the view the rate offered by KBC was no longer competitive.

Holding off switching to a cheaper rate simply means that borrower is paying a needlessly high interest rate while waiting for a better deal to come along.  That better deal might never materialise or, if it does, it may not materialise quickly enough to compensate for the additional interest paid during the intervening period.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2015)

Sarenco said:


> Sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic but you actually said that BOI only allow you to "pay a max of €60 p.m. capital without penalty when on a fixed" - I assume BOI allow (and expect) fixed rate borrowers to make whatever scheduled principal repayments have been agreed at the time the loan is advanced *plus* a max of €60 p.m.


Yes - that's what I meant. I thought that I said "overpay" but I was wrong.


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## Deane (16 Jul 2015)

Would be grateful for any advice on the following:

I have 14 years remaining on a 25 year BTL mortgage with BOI. I am coming off a 3 year fixed term shortly and considering BOI's penal interest rates, I am considering my options.  Considering that I will be paying off mainly capital amounts in the remaining 14 year term is it worth considering switching mortgage provider at this stage? My understanding is that in the early years of the loan, repayments go disproporionately towards the interest element of the loan.  Also, does anyone have have recommendations for possible BTL mortgage providers?


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Jul 2015)

Deane said:


> My understanding is that in the early years of the loan, repayments go disproporionately towards the interest element of the loan.



A mortgage is like any other loan. 

The interest is charged on the outstanding balance every day. 

So if you owe €200,000 and the interest rate is 6%, you will be paying a little less than €12,000 in interest. 

If you can get a loan at 5%, you will be saving around €2,000 in the first year, so it's worth your while changing. 

Brendan


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## el chapucero (17 Jul 2015)

I have a €205k standard variable with AIB at 3.9% with 15 years to go. The mortgage protection life [on death] costs €113 per month and I pay income protection of around €40 per month net. The mortgage takes over half of our monthly income [post downturn pay cuts etc] so we are on the edge all the time for years now.We paid €340k for the house and have 10 years payments made. A valuation may put the house at around €230 k   [the neighbour's house is for sale for €239,500].
My salary is paid into the AIB current account and I have a visa card which is always at around 3-4K be cause we need to use this to pay expenses  that arise , medical ,property taxes , car insurance .tax etc
I asked the bank a while back to cut me some slack but they said "sorry etc". 
They send me letters from time to time telling me how valuable a customer I am etc.
In the leaflet AIB sent with the June 0.25% reduction "Good News etc" the last sentence said "We'll be in touch with you about more possible changes we have planned for our mortgage customers later in 2015" This was before recent reports that the Government should not interfere with the rates etc.
I am against fixing due to job insecurities  but currently AIB offer a 3.5% fixed rate for 1 year and I understand that if I fix and the want to get out of this fixed rate then I will not be penalised as long as the Standard Variable rate and fixed rates when getting out are greater than or equal to the current 3.5% rate that I would be paying.
Is there any better deal out there for people in our situation or should I just cave in and fix with AIB for 1 year ?
 I was waiting until September/October to see if the bank drops again from pressure from Mr. Noonan etc but it seems that in this country the banks will do as they like as always.
The only bargaining power that I have with the bank is to switch to another and give them the profits from my mortgage.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2015)

el chapucero said:


> The mortgage protection life [on death] costs €113 per month and I pay income protection of around €40 per month net.


Minor point in the greater scheme of things but is that the best value mortgage protection life insurance that you can get? If you took it from the lender then probably not. You can shop around for this now and see if you can get replacement cover cheaper. Also are you sure that the income protection policy is worth it? Many of these policies only pay out it extremely limited circumstances and for limited periods of time. Check the cover and make sure that it's worth the €40 p.m. The ironic thing is that if you were in arrears or really struggling then AIB would be more likely to "cut you some slack". That's not a recommendation to get into that situation but it's an unfortunately conundrum of the market at the moment....


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## Sarenco (17 Jul 2015)

el chapucero said:


> Is there any better deal out there for people in our situation or should I just cave in and fix with AIB for 1 year ?


 
If I was in your shoes, I'd take the one year fixed rate and use the monthly savings to aggressively pay down your credit card debt - the interest on your CC must be killing you financially.  

I also agree with Clubman - drop the income protection policy, it's really not worth it if you are carrying CC debt.  It's also worth shopping around to see if you can get a better deal on your mortgage protection insurance and all utilities.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2015)

Missed the bit about the CC debt.
That is obviously significant in the overall context.


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## warrendublin (17 Jul 2015)

I'm currently in the middle of establishing viability on this at the moment, but I understand my current lender may be about to make changes, so am holding off to see what transpires.

However, reading on here is revelatory as to what i should be doing!! Many thanks all!


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2015)

Viability on what?


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