# Cityjet shambles



## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2017)

I booked an 8.40 flight from Dublin to London City Airport this morning, due to come back tonight at 8 pm.

Before leaving the house, I checked the departures and there was no note of any delay.

I arrived at the gate and it looked all good to go.

Maybe around 8.15, they apologised and said it would be delayed to 9 am "due to a problem with the incoming flight"  20 minutes is not too bad, I can live with that. 

Then a bit later, they said 9.30.

Then they announced that they were changing the plane and it would depart at 11. But if anyone wanted to change to the 11.25 flight, they could.

The only person dealing with the crowd was the handling operator. There was no one from Cityjet present. 

It turned out that 11 am was the time of the next update, not the departure time. Apparently only 12 people got on the 11.25 flight and they reported that they had to pay €70 for the privilege of being delayed over two hours.

Towards 11, they announced that the next update would be at 12 noon.

That made my day in London absolutely pointless.  Even if I did get the flight, the knock-on effect of the delays might mean that my flight back this evening would be delayed until tomorrow.

As of now, almost 5 hours after the scheduled departure, it still has not left.



I went out to the ticket desk to get a refund to be told that there was no ticket desk in the airport.

I called them and they told me that refunds were normally only paid after a flight had been delayed over 5 hours, but they would make an exception for me and give me back my money.

I don't mind so much a flight being delayed - it happens. (Around this time last year, there was a 3 hour delay on a Cityjet flight, but they told us up front about it.) But the fact that there was no one from Cityjet to explain the options.  Refund, compensation, voucher for refreshments, etc.

I just missed a day's leisure in London, but others had connecting flights and meetings to attend.

I checked their, and it seems to be about average.  This has not been my experience, but it's based on maybe around 6 or 7 flights with them.



One of the reasons I chose Cityjet is that if you arrive at the airport early, and there is an earlier flight, they will usually let you go on it, without charging you extra. The last time I was in London, the flight for Dublin before mine was delayed 2 hours so it departed over an hour before my flight was due to depart, so I benefited from their delay in that case.

But that is not enough of a reason if they can't treat customers properly and if they are less reliable than Aer Lingus which flies to the same airport.


Is it time just to give up on Cityjet?

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2017)

London City Airport has a good record overall, for all airlines.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2017)

According to the London City Arrivals, it's due to arrive in London at 14.10 - exactly 4 hours late.


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## dereko1969 (24 May 2017)

Flew from London City with them for the first time earlier this month and it was great, no problems at all, really liked London City airport, easy to get to and through. Your experience might make me reconsider!


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2017)

London City Airport is great. But I think I would go with British Airways/Aer Lingus instead in future.

Brendan


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## Buddyboy (24 May 2017)

Also check out compensation for delayed flights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Compensation_Regulation_261/2004#Delays

Our flight from lanzarote was delayed by 4 hours with Ryanair. They were very good at emailing details to get compensation from our travel insurance, but by googling and finding the link on their website, we got €400 back each from Ryanair. Admittedly, they made it hard to find the form on their website, but were superb in handling and giving the compensation.

I would guess were the only ones on the flight who pursued it (mostly elderly travellers who may not be internet savvy), but a bit of googling gives all the info.

Cityjet has to abide by the same rules.  Cursory reading says you are entitled to €250 back.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2017)

Thanks Buddy

It's a bit complicated.  After 3 hours and with no information being provided, I rang them and cancelled my flight and got a full refund. So I don't know if I am entitled to compensation as well.

Dublin Airport has stopped providing estimated departure times for that flight, but City Airport  has estimated arrival at at  15.00 - almost 5 hours late. Update - at 14.56 , it's reported as having landed. 



Brendan


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## dub_nerd (25 May 2017)

This was a flight within the EU subject to EU law. Once you were delayed 2 hours for reasons within the operators control (i.e. not bad weather etc.) , CityJet were required to give you written notification of your rights under EU law. In fact:

"As a matter of course, a printed or electronic notice informing you of your EU air passenger rights must be clearly displayed at the airport check-in desk. This information must also be shown at check-in kiosks in the airport and on-line. If you were denied boarding, your flight was cancelled, you experienced a delay of more than 2 hours at departure or you arrive with a long delay at your final destination, the operating air carrier must give you a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance." (EU air passenger rights).

After 2 hours delay you were entitled to appropriate refreshments, and after 5 hours to a full refund within a maximum of 7 days. (Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament).


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2017)

Hi dub-nerd

That is very interesting. Thanks for that. 

The most annoying thing was not knowing what was happening and what our rights were.

As I left the airport at 11 am, when they had announced that the next update would be at 12 noon, they could have denied me the refund. 

I would guess that most of the Cityjet passengers flying on an early flight to London are coming back on the same day - so the 5 hour delay/refund is not worth much to them.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (25 May 2017)

Just curious - if Cityjet normally (?) allow passengers to travel on an earlier flight at no extra cost why in his case did they charge passengers extra to travel on a LATER flight (at least later than their originally scheduled flight)?
Seems odd/arbitrary?


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## Firefly (25 May 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> ....I rang them and cancelled my flight and got a full refund. So I don't know if I am entitled to compensation as well.



Hi Brendan,

www.flight-delayed.co.uk

Haven't used the site myself but there seems to be a few others offering the same service too. Perhaps worth a go?

You could always send them a Tweet linking this thread too for further information

Firefly.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2017)

I am mellowing a bit this morning and got the bright idea that I could go tomorrow. The flight is much more expensive, but I suggested to Cityjet to give me the same flights at the same price as my flight yesterday and they readily agreed. 

Brendan


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## ClubMan (25 May 2017)

So you're not taking your own advice here? 



Brendan Burgess said:


> Incidentally, I now try to avoid CityJet as a result of their attitude to this and the way that they handled my complaint.


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## elcato (25 May 2017)

Or are you suffering from a delayed reaction Brendan ?


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2017)

Hi ClubMan 

I didn't check with British Airways but when I was choosing which day to go , their flights on Friday were prohibitive. 

I will send a long letter to Cityjet about how they can improve.  When the flight was going to be an hour late, they should have offered people the opportunity to change to swap their tickets for a different day this week. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2017)

elcato said:


> Or are you suffering from a delayed reaction Brendan ?



Good one.


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## newirishman (25 May 2017)

Love City Airport, great location and quick to get in and out (usually), albeit it can be very busy flying out in the evenings.

CityJet is a different story though - suffered often delays and cancellations on their DUB > LCY route, and usually booking BA now if it isn't a totally non-runner due to price.
Even delay of half an hour in the morning is painful enough when you are trying to get into the city for a 9am appointment. Unless I don't really care if I get to London or not at the planned time, I wouldn't book CityJet on that route anymore.


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## Leper (26 May 2017)

1. A flight was delayed.
2. Total refund given.
3. More expensive flight the next day given at the same price as the previous day's delayed flight.
4. Passenger got out of airport 11.00am.
5. Compensation being considered.

Stuff like this happens every day in every company/shop/office/home.

Is there total over-reaction here? Or have we become just another whinging nation?


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## newirishman (26 May 2017)

Leper said:


> Is there total over-reaction here? Or have we become just another whinging nation?



It is an internet forum after all. That's one of the main purposes, isn't it? What do you expect?

But (bad)joking aside, one of the key marketing messages with City Airport and specifically City Jet is the ability to quickly hop into London and out again with the minimum of time and fuss. Couple of hours delay isn't exactly supporting the message, and 4-5 hours delay for a flight that takes like less than 90 minutes is difficult to understand.
I know that in Ireland we are very much used to transport not being on time due to the omnishambles that is public transport, but that shouldn't be the baseline and is certainly not what one should expect.

EDIT: and to be perfectly honest, I think that there isn't enough loud complaining about this kind of stuff, again specifically in Ireland. People are way to concerned about causing a scene or whatever. If nobody complains about bad service, it won't get better. (Again, dare I point towards public transport as an example).


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## Brendan Burgess (27 May 2017)

Hi Leper

Apologies, for the delay in replying - I was in London yesterday. 

The most important question for me is whether I should fly Cityjet to London City Airport in future.  Although, the punctuality stats say that they are ok, I have had two huge delays, and a few hour long delays.  Others have told me that they are frequently late, but then one guy I spoke to yesterday told me that he has never been delayed. 

So I don't know the answer to that yet.

The second bit is how Cityjet handled the delay at first. It was really shocking. There was no one from Cityjet there to answer people's questions.  They charged people €70 extra to go on the 11.30 flight which was really outrageous. 

I don't have a problem with delays generally. If you are flying to Mallorca with Ryanair for €29.99 and you are delayed for a few hours, you grin and bear it.  However, I had paid €450 for a flight to London with Cityjet. I do expect better.

I was somewhat mollified by their quick agreement to my proposal to fly out later in the week for the same price.

And then the huge advantage of flying Cityjet kicked in yesterday.  I had a return flight booked for 8.10 pm but finished my business in London early and took a chance. I arrived at the airport at 4.30 pm and they gave me the last free seat on the 5.30 pm flight without any additional charge. This is the third time Cityjet has done this for me.

So no, I won't be looking for compensation. But I will send Pat Byrne, the Chief Executive some suggestions.
1) If a flight is delayed over one hour, get an employee or two down to the gate to talk to customers
2) As many, maybe even most, of the customers are flying over and back on the same day, a delayed flight is much more seriously disrupting for them than a delay for someone who is not coming back on the same day.   Offer people an option to switch to a different flight for the same price.  If this had been offered to me at 10 am on Wednesday, I would have grabbed it immediately and gone home earlier.
3) To be fair to them, they did answer the phone fairly quickly on the two occasions this time I called. But the last time I had a problem, I got a call centre, probably in India, where I couldn't make head nor tail of what the guy was saying. It was deeply frustrating. I had meant to contact the CEO about that at the time, but I didn't. I will add that to my letter.

Brendan


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## Leper (28 May 2017)

Hi Bren (I hope I still can call you Bren; you can still call me Lep),

You have a choice in Dublin. You can use Aer Lingus, Ryanair and Cityjet and can fly into any London airport. Great! Dublin airport provides the greatest choice at the expense of the rest of the airports in Ireland.

Every airline suffers delays occasionally.  It comes with the territory. Airlines do not do this deliberately and they and passengers want everything to run smoothly.  We all know and stuff happens so that everything does not run smoothly all the time. Most of us get over it. 

€450 is a pretty steep price to pay for a flight to the UK. Yes, I think Cityjet should supply a human presence when delays such as yours happen. But, nobody died, nobody was hurt and you were amply compensated with another flight later and even treated more favourably with the earlier return flight. This did not happen because you complained earlier; it is a good service provided by Cityjet.

The Cityjet service from Cork to London died, probably due to loss of support not too long after the service was launched. Airlines are fickle and it would not surprise me that a service can cease merely on "compensation" customer complaints. (I know you are not seeking compensation).  Cityjet could probably gain more profit of providing service between London and elsewhere other than Dublin. But, they don't. Cherish the service, keep it, we need them more than they need us.

Have a look at flights from/to Cork.  You'll notice perhaps two holiday flights per week serving Cork. Ten years ago there were several and outside of June, July, August now there are none. You can get a holiday flight to Lanzarote and Palma from Cork. Not a great choice. You see, Dublin Airport Authority owns Cork airport and won't allow any decent competition.


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## Gordon Gekko (28 May 2017)

I use CityJet all the time and find them great. London City in particular is a joy, and the DLR into Bank is very user friendly.


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## Leper (29 May 2017)

I think I was a bit hard on Bren. earlier.  It wasn't the €450.00 fare that swung me though. It was the difficulty in dealing with a call centre in Asia.

Joking aside, how often have you waited silently in a normal supermarket (or any other kind of) queue to see some eejit shouting at the check-out operator? The last time I saw this I confronted the shouter (underweight bitchy monument to lipstick) who in turn button-holed me outside in the car-park. She explained by her complaining to the check-out girl the matter would find its way up the chain to management and better service would be gained by every shopper. When I informed her she was an impatient attention seeker seeking some item free as a gesture of goodwill, she went ape. Unfortunately, I see the same nearly everywhere especially by users of our roads.


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## ClubMan (29 May 2017)

Leper said:


> You have a choice in Dublin. You can use Aer Lingus, Ryanair and Cityjet and can fly into any London airport. Great! Dublin airport provides the greatest choice at the expense of the rest of the airports in Ireland.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Discussion/complaints about the [un]availability of routes/flights from Cork or any other airport (never mind anecdotes about some incident at a grocery checkout or road users) seem, to me, like complete non sequiturs to the subject matter of this thread...


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## MrEarl (31 May 2017)

Hello Mr. Burgess,

Like many others here, I love flying into London City Airport given the speed and relative ease of getting through LCY, compared to many larger UK airports. 

I am a long time happy customer of Cityjet (no other connection), so I was surprised to read of your experience.  I have always found their service good while on thier flights and have not had problems with delays on Cityjet flights, over the years.  You have also highlighted one of the key benefits when flying with them, namely that they will bump you onto an earlier flight if you wish and they have capacity, and at no extra charge. 

I was disappointed to read that they did not have staff available to speak with their customers when the flight was delayed and think that you would be right to contact Pat Byrne on that matter.  While outsourcing certain services is not uncommon in the airline industry, I do think that Cityjet should have their own staff on hand at the airport, to help protect their brand (which I would traditionally consider ranks a little above many other short haul carriers).

Notwithstanding the fact that you obtained a refund, I still feel that you would be well within your rights to claim compensation and would actually encourage you to make a claim.  After all, you were delayed at an airport because of the airline - so they were responsible for you losing some of your valuable time.

It was a nice gesture that they later agreed to give you a flight on a different day at the same price - but that does not remove the need for compensation given the loss of your personal time on the day of the delay, imho.

I hope you enjoyed your trip to London btw - it's a great city


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## Brendan Burgess (31 May 2017)

MrEarl said:


> I still feel that you would be well within your rights to claim compensation



I am not a great fan of compensation. In terms of financial loss, it was limited to the €16 aircoach fare.  I suppose if I were a solicitor charging €300 an hour, I could claim 4 hours or something. 

Redress is better. Giving me the same flights on another day at the same prices is adequate redress. It would have been better if they had suggested that at 10 am when they knew that they had a problem. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Jul 2018)

Absolute chaos from CityJet on Monday 2nd and Tuesday 3rd. 

I arrived at the departure gate in  Dublin Airport at 7.40 for an 8.40 flight.  There were crowds milling around the gate.  Apparently my flight was ok, but the 6.40 flight was cancelled and customers could not fly out until 4 pm that day.  Apparently, CityJet knew about it at 10 pm the previous evening and did not notify customers.  They were furious. As they pointed out that someone going on a 6.40 flight is probably going over to a 9 am meeting with a view to coming back the same day. 

They did put a few of them on the 8.40 flight but didn't seem to offer any other options such as fly with British Airways to London City or with another airline to another airport. 

I had a flight back on Tuesday at 20.05.  When I arrived in the airport at around 6.45 , I saw that I had received a text telling me that the flight number had changed and it was now departing at 20.00.  Fair enough, I thought and went to the CityJet check in desk, where she gave me a new boarding pass which clearly showed 20.00 departure time, boarding beginning at 7.30 .  I strolled through security and got myself a pint.  The Departures Screen was all over the place. The 13.50 flight from London was departing at 19.30. Another flight had a long delay as well.  I looked for my 20.00 departure and there was no sign of it. Then I checked the flight numbers and it turned out that my flight was the same one which was departing at 19.30 and boarding had begun.  I went through, bringing my pint with me. We got on the plane and then were told "There is apparently some confusion. We are "Joto" airlines and we have been scrambled to provide this service for CityJet.  Some of you have been waiting a long time. But some customers have been told the departure is at 19.30 and others have been told 20.00, so we have to wait for the last people to check in for 20.00".  It did depart on the dot of 20.00 

I wasn't affected this time, but I really felt the frustration of the people who were. Some of it is covered on Twitter where no one from CityJet even replied.  Apparently some flights were diverted to Southend. 

An Indo journalist was affected and has written about it here: 

*CityJet apologises as 'technical issues' frustrate passengers for second day*

I think I will try to go British Airways in future. They are probably better able to sort out a problem by slotting in one of their own planes than a small airline like CityJet.

Brendan


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## LDFerguson (5 Jul 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I went through, bringing my pint with me.



This is the line from this story that really jumps out at me.  How far did you get with your pint?


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## Sunny (5 Jul 2018)

LDFerguson said:


> This is the line from this story that really jumps out at me.  How far did you get with your pint?



Ha ha. Same with me. I was picturing Brendan sprinting for the flight but still being careful enough not to spill a drop!


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Jul 2018)

To be honest with you it was a major concern for me. I had just had a terrible tube journey. My rucksack had stopped the doors from closing and someone on the platform had pushed me and the rucksack in. Then the tube got stuck for 15 minutes as the train in front could not close its doors. The DLR was better but I needed a drink badly when I got to the airport.

I had just taken the first sip when I noticed that it was actually my flight which was boarding.  So I went to the gate and asked if I could bring my pint and she said yes.  In London City, there is a holding area after the gate where you wait before going to the plane.  I drank my pint in peace there.  I gulped down the last bit as we were called for the plane. 

Brendan


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## MrEarl (6 Jul 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> ....I had just taken the first sip when I noticed that it was actually my flight which was boarding.  So I went to the gate and asked if I could bring my pint and she said yes....
> 
> Brendan



I suspect that not all airlines, or all airports, would have been so accommodating.

Very sorry to read about these negative experiences with Cityjet, as they've traditionally been very good for service imho.


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## elcato (6 Jul 2018)

MrEarl said:


> Very sorry to read about these negative experiences with Cityjet, as they've traditionally been very good for service imho.


But was it that bad ? The flight was cancelled for something (I presume) out of their control. They can't just dump people off the next plane and put the others on. These things happen. Brendan hasn't expanded on the 'they knew the night before at 10pm' source. Even if they did know they probably needed to wait till the morning to see what can be done. I'm amazed no-one has quoted the usual 'it was not knowing what was going on that was the worst. The staff just ignored us.'. Eh just maybe the staff didn't know either.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jul 2018)

Hi elcato 

Cityjet gave no information. So one of the disrupted passengers  gave me the information that they knew the night before.  He also explained something about Cityjet selling off all their old planes to "Joto" and then hiring them in for some flights. But these planes apparently have reliability problems. 

I don't travel that often, but I seem to see a lot of problems with CityJet. 

I suspect that if this happened to British Airways, they could provide a replacement plane quicker and maybe accommodate the passengers on other flights to London.

Brendan


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## elcato (6 Jul 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So one of the disrupted passengers gave me the information that they knew the night before.


Without getting bogged down on this, are you saying he knew the night before but still turned up the following morning or was it a case that he just sounded authoritative and surmised all this info  Seems a bit strange that he apparently is aware of these problems and is still using them.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jul 2018)

Hi elcato 

He told me that CityJet knew the previous night but did not inform passengers.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Jul 2018)

It was this day last week, that the first CityJet flight of the day was delayed until the afternoon, so I just decided to check this week's. It's 7.30 at the time of this screenshot.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Jul 2018)

It departed at 7.40 - an hour late 

The 7.30 departed at 7.36 - so, more or less on time.


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## newirishman (9 Jul 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It departed at 7.40 - an hour late
> 
> The 7.30 departed at 7.36 - so, more or less on time.


Flew into LCY using CityJet a quite a lot over the last few years. Stopped using the 06:40 altogether because I don't think it was on time ever out of half a dozen or so flights, which means 30+ mins delay on arrival.
So started arranging any meetings an hour later and got myself an hour longer in bed.


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## dereko1969 (16 Jul 2018)

Just had a really annoying experience with CityJet yesterday. 1730 flight from London City eventually departed at 2220, was half pleased early on as flight was initially delayed to 1800 so that meant I could continue watching the World Cup Final. But constant announcements onscreen that the next announcement would be in an hours time, we eventually decided we'd take an overnight and book in for the following day and were escorted back through security only to be told once there that all local hotels were booked up and we had to find our own hotels and by the way we might not be able to get you on a flight tomorrow (Monday) and it could be Tuesday or Wednesday by the time we can put you on a Cityjet flight. Thankfully we were able to get back through security and make our much delayed flight which had just landed from Southend (we hadn't trusted the advice that it might arrive "soon").
Another passenger told us Sunday evenings are always a disaster from London City, it seemed like 50% of flights were either delayed or cancelled.
Not pleased with CityJet, how the airside staff could say we'd be sorted with hotels and flights and 5 minutes later her colleagues on the other side were saying we were on our own was just astounding.
They don't make it easy to make a EU261 claim either, you have to ring up rather than an online claim.


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