# Non-domiciled status - how can one confirm it?



## A_l_e_x (19 Dec 2012)

Hi All,

I've sold some non-Irish assets, and not planning to remit the proceeds into the country, so as I understand I wouldn't need to pay CGT on it if I am non-domiciled. And this is the tricky part - I do consider myself non-domiciled (I've been living and working in Ireland for 10 years now, but not planning to stay permanently/retire here, and don't own a property here). 

What worries me is that this domicile concept is such a vague area! It is obviously not good enough for me to say "OK, I think I am non-domiciled, so I won't pay CGT", and then have Revenue chase me down the road for the tax with all the penalties because they have a different view.. 

So how could I confirm my non-domiciled status here? Should I contact the Revenue directly, or should I get a tax advisor to do it? I think I'd need something official and in writing from the Revenue to be safe, but I am not sure how to go about it.. Has anyone done it?

Any advice is much appreciated.


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## elcato (19 Dec 2012)

> I do consider myself non-domiciled (I've been living and working in  Ireland for 10 years now, but not planning to stay permanently/retire  here, and don't own a property here).


Are you saying that you have been working here for 10 years and paying tax here but now you are no longer here ? Or have you been living abroad for most of the year ?


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## Importer (19 Dec 2012)

A person's domicile is normally their domicile of birth or more particularly their fathers domicile of birth. Domicile is very difficult to change after that.

If you were born in another country and you haven't taken up citizenship in Ireland and / or you haven't renounced your citizenship of your home country, then I think the Revenue will accept that you are not domiciled in Ireland.
You dont own any property here which will add credence to your case.

It might be worth while checking if there is a tax treaty between your home country and Ireland. Most of Ireland's tax treaties with other countries specify for example that real estate should be taxed in the country of its location and investments for example in the country of residency.

You will need to check the taxation situation in the country where the gain is to be realised to get a better picture of the tax treatment there.


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## A_l_e_x (19 Dec 2012)

Thanks a lot for the replies.

To clarify - yep, I was born outside of Ireland, my parents are non-Irish and they still live in that country. I came to Ireland to work 10 years ago and still work here, but this may change since I am married and my wife is from yet another country. I did acquire Irish citizenship through naturalisation, but I didn't renounce my original citizenship. So it looks to me that I am a resident, ordinarily resident, but non-domiciled here in Ireland. But going back to my original question - how can I confirm this for sure?  I mean, I am happy if Revenue provides guidelines according to which I am domiciled here and so have to pay the tax on gains, but according to the vague guidelines they provide I am non-domiciled.. So how do I formally confirm my non-domiciled status?


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## oldnick (19 Dec 2012)

You are correct -you are non-domiciled here,especially as you may leave.
I am in exactly your position - nonIrish married to another nonIrish,from a different country from me, I've Irish citizenship but didn't renounce original. 
The guidelines may be vague because  the whole concept is vague and to some extent Revenue will accept what you tell them based, of course, on your history and declared intentions.


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## Importer (19 Dec 2012)

I don't think anyone here can give you the definite Yes or No you're looking for. You might want to get a ruling on your case from Revenue.

You say that you are a naturalized Irish citizen.That pushes you further into the very cloudy "grey" area


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## Bronte (20 Dec 2012)

You sound non domicilied to me.  It doesn't matter how long you are in Ireland.  If you look at Solicitor O'Donnell's court case where's he's trying to use UK residency, he's also very cleverly using his knowledge of domicile as exampled by his reference to having purchased grave plots in the UK.  Your initial domicile is hard to lose.  Having links to your home country helps.


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## A_l_e_x (3 Jan 2013)

Thanks a lot for the replies and wish everyone a prosperous New Year. It is quite encouraging for me that the general agreement seems to be that I am non-domiciled here. I think I'll try to obtain a ruling from Revenue on my case as was suggested as this seems to be the only way to get a more or less definite answer on this.


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## Joe_90 (3 Jan 2013)

CGT is self assessment,  I would not bother getting a view from Revenue.  If you don't think that you domiciled here and given the info outlined I think you are correct, leave it at that.


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## A_l_e_x (3 Jan 2013)

Joe_90 said:


> CGT is self assessment, I would not bother getting a view from Revenue. If you don't think that you domiciled here and given the info outlined I think you are correct, leave it at that.


 
Thanks for the advice. The problem is I have already paid the CGT last year before finding out about the non-domiciled thing  So I'd have to claim a refund from Revenue and I guess I'd now need to prove to them that I am indeed non-domiciled in order to get a refund..


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## Joe_90 (4 Jan 2013)

Best of luck with that.


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## Setanta12 (4 Jan 2013)

You will need an advisor, imho, to advance this as they will have to argue your domicile with the Revenue. You could of course do this yourself but I imagine it will be a long drawn out series of letters.


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## Jim2007 (4 Jan 2013)

OP, from everything you have said:
- You have been living and working in Ireland for the last 10 years
- Your immediate family lives here (you mentioned a wife, any kids?)
- You are a naturalized Irish citizen 
- You have paid CGT on previous occasions

Sounds very much like you have changed domicile to me!  In particular taking out citizenship of the country where you are a long time resident and which presumably is your center of economic activity is going to be very hard to explain away.


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## Bronte (7 Jan 2013)

Even if he spent all his adult life in Ireland it wouldn't necessarily mean he's lost his original domicile.  It's not his* intention* to remain here.  And that's very important in relation to domicile.


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## Jim2007 (7 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> Even if he spent all his adult life in Ireland it wouldn't necessarily mean he's lost his original domicile.  It's not his* intention* to remain here.  And that's very important in relation to domicile.



I appreciate what you are saying, but in the light of other information, the fact that someone has take out citizenship in the country where they have been a long term resident is a good indicate that they have switched domicile - saying I don't intend to stay around is not going to trump that.  You need to show that you have been acting on those intentions during the same period.

I've been through this and am now Swiss domiciled for the same reasons...


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## Time (7 Jan 2013)

Taking out a passport here would be seen as an intention to remain.


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