# form 12 "excess case v capital allowances"



## cash_cow (29 Oct 2009)

Hi,

Any ideas on what is filled in here for form 12. What do they mean by excess case ?


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## Gervan (29 Oct 2009)

Case V is rental income. Capital allowances are for furniture, equipment you have provided for the rental property. Excess would be where the profit cannot absorb the entire capital allowances. This can be carried forward to be used against rental income in future years.


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## Liamos (30 Oct 2009)

Actually excess case v capital allowances can be offset in the year they occur againct all other income, not just rental income.


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## Graham_07 (30 Oct 2009)

Liamos said:


> Actually excess case v capital allowances can be offset in the year they occur againct all other income, not just rental income.


 
They can not. This has been covered in a recent thread. Case V C/A may only be used against Case V income, current year or carried forward. The only exception to this is some limited "sectioned" C/A's e.g. S.48 allowances.


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## qwerty08 (30 Oct 2009)

Actually they can *provided *there is no other Case V income to offset them against first


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## Decgra (30 Oct 2009)

Hi

Im new to this and was just wondering which form I need to fill in for my tax return. I am a full time PAYE worker and pay all my tax through this system. I also have a limited company for selling items online in spare time and I dont pay myself anything from the company. Do I need to file Forn 11E of form 12??

Cheers
Any help would be apreciated


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## DB74 (30 Oct 2009)

Actually they can't

[broken link removed]


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## Liamos (30 Oct 2009)

Actually they can! They are offset against Case V first. The 'excess' can then be offset against other income.


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## Graham_07 (30 Oct 2009)

qwerty08 said:


> Actually they can *provided *there is no other Case V income to offset them against first


 


Liamos said:


> Actually they can! They are offset against Case V first. The 'excess' can then be offset against other income.


 

Just so everyone is clear on this would either of you mind posting the specific legislative provisions or a link thereto. Thanks.


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## Breninio (30 Oct 2009)

Neevr had to look at this before but does section 305 (1)(b)(i) not mean that the "actually can" side are correct.


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## Graham_07 (30 Oct 2009)

As I mentioned above there are certain situations of certain industrial buildings CA's (S.409(A)TCA97) or S.48 type allowances where if not otherwise ring-fenced to the specific income stream, may be available against other income where they exceed the relevant Case V income for the year. 

In the cases of rented residential the CA's usually relate to furniture / fittings / equipment. And as already shown above in the link in DB74's post they cannot be set against non-Case V income.


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## Liamos (30 Oct 2009)

I understand that capital allowances relate to furniture etc. However, it states in the Irish Taxation Institutes Taxation Summary that "the Finance Act 2000 provided a legal basis for setting excess allowances arising in charging rental income, against non - rental income". 

I agree with Breninio that section 305 (1)(b)(i) covers this.


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## DB74 (30 Oct 2009)

Both the paper & ROS Form 11 for 2008 contain the following statement:

"_If you wish to *elect* under Section 305(1)(b) TCA 1997 to set any unused Capital Allowances (not already ring-fenced) in respect of *Buildings* for 2008 against your other income state the amount of unused Capital Allowances available for offset below:"_

PS - Items in Bold are "Bolded" by Revenue, not me.

So, unless you are willing to take Revenue to court in an attempt to argue your interpretation of Sect 305, I would be inclined NOT to try to claim excess capital allowances against other income.


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