# Passport application delays



## Susie2017 (22 May 2018)

I applied using passport express for two children's passports on 27th April. Just checked online and the estimate date is 18th June which is very close to my travel date. Any suggestions ? Is it worth calling them or dropping in ?


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## InfoSeeker (22 May 2018)

I had a similar experience very recently, I applied on March 26th and estimated date was April 30th. After that date it started to move and once it went to May 9th as the estimated date then I tried to contact them as our travel date was May 30th.

Contacting them was difficult; for about 5-7 consecutive days I tried to call them but each time it said they were too busy, you could not even wait in a queue. I tried web chat and that was the same. In the end I think I found some link via boards.ie and this did place me in a queue, when I got to chat to someone it was not that productive in that they said you should not book a travel date until you receive your passport, etc.

I tried to ask if there was any process to escalate this as it was 35 working days since I applied. In the end he said he would add a note and he hoped we would get it before the 30th but it was not exactly a plan. In the end we did get them late last week so all was ok. This does not really help you but I suppose it shows that this might be the norm re waiting times. Just keep trying is all I can suggest.


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## Peanuts (22 May 2018)

I applied for 2 passports for my kids on 1st May & checked status last night. Estimated date given was 24th May. Strange how mine went after you but (supposedly!) I will have them nearly a month before you.


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## InfoSeeker (22 May 2018)

Mine was for our 3 kids but for one of them it was a first time passport which I believe takes longer so that might be the difference, purely a guess though. Also our estimated date was April 30th initially and we received them on May 16th, the estimated date moved as time moved


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## Susie2017 (23 May 2018)

Hi all. Yes they are both first applications. But I paid for passport express with them. The expected date of issue is 18th June. Could this end up being even longer. Worried as we are flying end of June. Thought I would have them by now.


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## llgon (23 May 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> But I paid for passport express with them.



Don't be mislead by 'passport express'. It is the slowest way to apply for a passport in Ireland and is effectively a subsidy to keep post offices open.


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## iceblue (23 May 2018)

Similar situation. First time application. Estimated issue date was 4 days before flights. I called into the passport office with a copy of our flight details and passport express tracker number. They put a note on my file and I collected them 3 days later.


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## Peanuts (23 May 2018)

Mine was for renewals so that might explain the quicker turnaround. Then again I don't have them yet.


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## InfoSeeker (24 May 2018)

Passport Express only means An Post guarantees the application will arrive the following date, likewise when issued that you receive them the next day. It has no bearing on how fast the passport application is processed.

I would contact them and ask if a note can be added that your travel date is x, I did that and received them shortly after, cannot say for certain if that was the reason.

Plan B was to go/get someone to go to the passport office in Dublin and stay there for the day if required assuming it was less than a week to our travel date.


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## Susie2017 (24 May 2018)

Ok. Many thanks for all feedback. The turnaround time for first time applications is currently 34 days. If they issue it on 18th then i should be ok. Problem is if turnaround time increases in the meantime then it gets a little too close for comfort. I logged on to webchat at 9 am there were 40 people in the queue. Now its not accessible at all. So I have emailed them to see what to do. They say not to make an appt as there is already an application in the system.


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## Susie2017 (13 Jun 2018)

I'm still waiting on these passports. Due to issue on Monday next according to tracking but listening to Joe Duffy podcast from this week has me worried. Apparently these estimated dates are not accurate and can come and go without any passport being issued. The turnaround time has now increased to 38 days from 34 days but my date of issue is still the same. Will this new turnaround time affect me I wonder ? I'm up the wall..oh and postage could take longer....


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## Maggs065 (14 Jun 2018)

Hi Susie - I'm in the same position as you. Issue date is 19th June and we're travelling 25th. I emailed them earlier in the week and they replied to say they notified the issuing office with my travel date. I'm optimistic I will get them next week!
The thing that worries me is if there is a problem with the application, how will that affect the date?


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## Chelseablue (19 Jun 2018)

Hi all,
Online is the way to go from now on. My daughter (young adult) applied for renewal of passport last Thursday and received it in the post today Tuesday very fast service. 
Note: not available for child renewal or first time applicants

Regards,


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## TarfHead (20 Jun 2018)

Chelseablue said:


> Online is the way to go from now on ..



+1 for online renewals.  My wife had her new passport within a couple of days of using the online application.

And the palaver of selecting a suitable headshot was comedy gold


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## BOXtheFOX (7 Jun 2020)

My passport will expire early next year. Has anyone applied to have their passport renewed in recent times?  How long does it take to be processed etc?


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## llgon (7 Jun 2020)

5 working days online





__





						Current Turnaround Times - Department of Foreign Affairs
					

Latest passport application turnaround information from online renewals, passport express and applications from Great Britain



					www.dfa.ie


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## Saavy99 (7 Jun 2020)

I got mine renewed online two weeks ago, got it back within a week.


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## cremeegg (11 Jun 2020)

BOXtheFOX said:


> My passport will expire early next year. Has anyone applied to have their passport renewed in recent times?  How long does it take to be processed etc?



Applied for mine online Tuesday, got it back in the post today, Thursday. Wonderful


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## Saavy99 (11 Jun 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Applied for mine online Tuesday, got it back in the post today, Thursday. Wonderful



So convenient nowadays especially with the passport app and taking your own photo, saves a fortune on them machines.


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## Bronco Lane (6 Mar 2021)

I see that the Passport Office is not operating during Level 5 lockdown. I am trying to imagine the backlog of applications, when restrictions are lifted.  I can then hear Simon Coveney making excuses....."we will be beefing up the staff numbers to deal with the backlog" etc etc.

Just because we cannot travel at this point in time does not mean that we should not be able to renew our passports.  I would have thought that this was essential work?






						Passports - Department of Foreign Affairs
					

Information relating to Irish passport applications and Irish citizenship.



					www.dfa.ie


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## Johnno75 (6 Mar 2021)

Bronco Lane said:


> Just because we cannot travel at this point in time does not mean that we should not be able to renew our passports.


I feel your pain. I’m in a similar position as I’m trying to get a passport for our youngest in good time for any possible escape later this year when things calm down.

One thing that occurred to me was that for a new passport, a Garda signature is required. I suppose the State doesn’t want people out and about travelling to Garda stations for non-essential purposes, particular with travel bans and lockdowns.

But I’d have thought with some imagination and ingenuity, this issue could be overcome.

Alas, perhaps not.


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## Laramie (6 Mar 2021)

Jayom75 said:


> I feel your pain. I’m in a similar position as I’m trying to get a passport for our youngest in good time for any possible escape later this year when things calm down.


There will be an explosion of people wanting to travel abroad, for lots of reasons. (My own passport expires next month.) I would have thought that our Government would realise this, and use some common sense. Unfortunately, like most things that they do, there will be a last minute reactive response to this.

I also have a son who lives in China. Has a new baby. Trying to get a new Irish passport for the baby is proving extremely difficult. They need to be able to travel home to Ireland.


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## EasilyAmused (6 Mar 2021)

If there is to be an explosion of travel I expect the passport office won’t reopen until the mandatory quarantine is in place.


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## Purple (26 Mar 2021)

Difficult one to sort out. The passport office does seem to be an outlier in the State sector actually seems to be well run.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (26 Mar 2021)

My advice would be to get applications in for renewals already. It can be done online and they are accepting post for the signed forms.

My guess is that when it re-opens they will prioritise people who have applied already and/or expired or close to expiring passports.


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## trajan (26 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Difficult one to sort out. The passport office does seem to be an outlier in the State sector actually seems to be well run.



Ask anyone who had to deal with the old Patent Office in Kilkenny a few years back and they'll say the Passport Office is a well-oiled rifle by comparison: geriatric, technically ignorant, confused, confabulating and most likely alcoholic - that's what it was.


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## hazelgreen (26 Mar 2021)

My niece about to have baby in Berlin applied for Irish passport (mother Irish) and submitted papers incl UK passport last October and stuck since.  Now has no travel documents until sorted.


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## joe sod (26 Mar 2021)

I think the rules for european travel are that an EU passport will be accepted right up to expiry afterall EU citizens have a right to unlimited residence in other EU countries.  Of course you will have to comply with all the covid stuff now. However I would not be sending my passport for renewal until the passport office is up and running properly if they still have not processed passports sent in last year.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (27 Mar 2021)

joe sod said:


> However I would not be sending my passport for renewal until the passport office is up and running properly if they still have not processed passports sent in last year.


You don't have to send the old one back if there is less than six months' validity and it of course remains valid for travel.

If my passport was expiring in September I would get my renewal application in immediately.


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## joe sod (27 Mar 2021)

@NoRegretsCoyote thanks for that, didn't know that


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## 7 of 9 (27 Mar 2021)

I applied to renew my passport online, uploading a photograph taken at home, the new passport arrived within a week. So there are no delays if you are just renewing your passport.  (It was due to expire in the middle of April 2021)


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## 1dave123 (27 Mar 2021)

This may help someone so ....

I renewed online - simple online renewal .. uploaded photo etc.  

Completed process - 27th December 2020.  
Passport expiry date - 26 April 2021 
Received passport - 19th March 2021

So they are definitely processing simple renewals but they are prioritising according to your passport expiry date which is fair enough.


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## Odea (9 Apr 2021)

I renewed my passport online yesterday, 8th April. I still can't believe that I got my new passport today, one day later. This has to be a new record for turnaround?  Well done.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (9 Apr 2021)

It seems they are processing adult renewals, even though they are tryingto discourage it.

Not clear about children's renewals or first-time applications.

They are definitely not processing passport cards at all. They confirmed this to me by chat.


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## OMG_OMG (23 Apr 2021)

Can you renew an 8 year old childs passport online?
Current passport expires April 2022.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (23 Apr 2021)

OMG_OMG said:


> Current passport expires April 2022.


Don't do this. If there is more than six months validity they need to old passport, if less they don't. So you could send it all in and have no passport at all for weeks or months.

I would wait until later in 2021 when the backlog is likely cleared.


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## tallpaul (23 Apr 2021)

You have a full year's validity left on the passport!! Why would you renew it? Do you usually renew passports with a full year to go??


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## OMG_OMG (26 Apr 2021)

tallpaul said:


> You have a full year's validity left on the passport!! Why would you renew it? Do you usually renew passports with a full year to go??


We definitely wont be needing it until next year, but are afraid that there will be an even worse delay next year.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (26 Apr 2021)

OMG_OMG said:


> We definitely wont be needing it until next year, but are afraid that there will be an even worse delay next year.


The backlog will be cleared by the autumn. After that just submit in January/February when it's quiet.

April-July is always peak season as people wake up and realise they have to go on holiday.


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## almostthere (26 Apr 2021)

I had my passport renewed recently. Less than 24 hours from submitting online, it was delivered through my letterbox.


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## tallpaul (26 Apr 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> The backlog will be cleared by the autumn. After that just submit in January/February when it's quiet.
> 
> April-July is always peak season as people wake up and realise they have to go on holiday.


When I worked in Dublin City centre, I would often see the queues outside the old Passport Office on Molesworth Street during the summer months. Invariably it was the late-teens/early twenties brigade realising that they actually needed a passport to travel to Santa Ponsa for their week in the sun. Never any queues at other times of the year.


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## gianni (26 Apr 2021)

almostthere said:


> I had my passport renewed recently. Less than 24 hours from submitting online, it was delivered through my letterbox.


Renewed a passport for elderly relative 2 weeks ago. Applied on a Wednesday, they had it by the Friday!


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## arbitron (3 May 2021)

Inspired by your post, I renewed my elderly aunt's passport last Wednesday night and she received it Friday morning!!

Our experiences conflict with this more pessimistic Irish Times article: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...t-take-to-renew-my-expired-passport-1.4552224


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## EasilyAmused (4 May 2021)

6-8 weeks to address the backlog.


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## vandriver (4 May 2021)

Applied May 1st,estimated issue date May 14th.


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## vandriver (5 May 2021)

Update:Arrived this morning (5th)


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## Itchy (14 Jul 2021)

I'm in a total cul de sac with the Passport Office! My wife's application link expired and and the request for a new one has locked her in to a cycle where no new link was provided/received and they wont reissue another one due one supposedly being sent! The phone line hangs up on you, the webchat is 'apparently' available but there is no access link on the website and they are "busy helping customers" and the emergency email contact gives you a PFO if not an emergency.

Anybody have any advice for contacting the Passport office? Should she start a new application and pay the fee again?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Jul 2021)

I found the webchat worked well a few months ago.


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## Itchy (14 Jul 2021)

Maybe I'm not seeing this correctly but there is no access link for the webchat? https://www.dfa.ie/passports/contact/







We've been trying this for the last 10 days and its been the same!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Jul 2021)

Itchy said:


> We've been trying this for the last 10 days and its been the same!


My guess is that half the country has an expired passport and wants to travel next week.

As a general rule a friend of mine who worked in a call centre says that the first30 minutes of the day are always the best to try and make contact. Afternoons worst.


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## presidenttttt (18 Jul 2021)

It has been extraordinary poor setup over the past year. Some renewals flowed quickly, but anyone needing documents or their first passport for a child were basically given an undetermined delay, a totally unacceptable response I would expect only in a place like North Korea. They just assume everyone is going to Ibiza and there is no other real life reason people need to move around so leave people in total uncertainty, for example, leaving young kids unable to leave the island to see elderly grandparents for almost two years, (but its ok to travel to their funeral after the grandparents die), totally wrong for a western country.

I had to get onto a TD. I think it is Coveney's office. Also worth getting onto the embassy at the other end if you have business/family/genuine purpose for travel.


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## Steven Barrett (19 Jul 2021)

We're going to France in 2 weeks and my son's passport is stuck in the queue. It was supposed to have been issued last week. Wasn't overly concerned until a friend told me his daughter's was in there 5 weeks. He's going away next week. It's just been changed to printer status.


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## Steven Barrett (23 Jul 2021)

Steven Barrett said:


> We're going to France in 2 weeks and my son's passport is stuck in the queue. It was supposed to have been issued last week. Wasn't overly concerned until a friend told me his daughter's was in there 5 weeks. He's going away next week. It's just been changed to printer status.


Got my son's passport today. Yesterday, it changed from processing to printing to issued. An Post delivered it at 08:30 this morning. 

While the online system is great, especially for adults, you need to leave yourself plenty of time. We were very worried that we would have to cancel our holiday next week. Very hard to get through on the phone. My wife spoke to someone on Wednesday who told her we shouldn't have booked without a passport. Never mind that we applied well before the turnaround times that they have published on their website.


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## doyle.sal@gmail (31 Jul 2021)

Would love peoples insight who have already received a passport. We submitted a childrens renewal on the 12th July and by the 15th it moved to processing with an estimated date of Aug 6th. Now it has reverted to on hold pending documentation again after 2 weeks of processing. Ive received no email as to what doumentation is needed so not sure what is going on


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## Rosemary McManus (9 Aug 2021)

We have an issue date of the 23rd August although we travel on the 17th August it is a child's passport renewal and it says processing. Is there anyway to get this on time for the 17th?   The people on the webchat seem to have no access to any more information than is on the website.  Phoning is a nightmare but there seems to be no access to data there.  Where can we get a realistic update?


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## emeralds (16 Sep 2021)

My son applied for a passport yesterday (online). Arrived this morning! I think that must be a record. Brilliant service from the Passport Office.


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## Itchy (16 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Maybe I'm not seeing this correctly but there is no access link for the webchat? https://www.dfa.ie/passports/contact/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Child's passport application ended up taking nine weeks in total. 

We phoned the PO just before they opened and usually got through within a half hour. That was in August, in July it seemed impossible to contact them. Once we got through, the communication was clear and knowledgeable (some people had been drafted in to assist the office, so may be unfamiliar with the processes). It seems that they will prioritise applications that are taking longer than eight weeks.


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## time to plan (7 Oct 2021)

Does anyone have recent experience of turnaround times for a child passport renewal via Passport Express? Thanks.


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## RetirementPlan (8 Oct 2021)

time to plan said:


> Does anyone have recent experience of turnaround times for a child passport renewal via Passport Express? Thanks.


We sent one in about ten days ago. It was scheduled to be issued on 13th October.


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## paulgee (8 Oct 2021)

DO IT ONLINE!    I could not believe what happened.  My daughter turned 18 and her passport was out.  She got her photo taken at one of the authorised photo shops that give you a reference code and a hard copy.
She applied online with the supplied code.  Expected date was weeks away.  It landed in the letterbox 48 hours later.  I could not believe it!  Fantastic set up.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Oct 2021)

The adult renewals seem to have pretty cursory checks. It seems pretty automated and often in your letterbox within 48 hours.

Child renewals take longer as there is more scrutiny AFAIK.


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## time to plan (8 Oct 2021)

paulgee said:


> DO IT ONLINE!    I could not believe what happened.  My daughter turned 18 and her passport was out.  She got her photo taken at one of the authorised photo shops that give you a reference code and a hard copy.
> She applied online with the supplied code.  Expected date was weeks away.  It landed in the letterbox 48 hours later.  I could not believe it!  Fantastic set up.


I'm hopeful - I guess your daughter is now an adult so it's simpler. We have an estimated issue date of 1/11 but need it on 22/10 (applied on Saturday and paper documentation delivered on Tuesday). Our own fault to leave it late but have been dealing with Covid at home so slipped our minds. Fingers crosssed. We do have the potential to get her a UK passport renewal in Belfast, but need a UK resident conutersignatory and a UK delviery address so it's not an easy set of circumstances to pull off (while dealing with Covid at home).


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## RetirementPlan (19 Oct 2021)

RetirementPlan said:


> We sent one in about ten days ago. It was scheduled to be issued on 13th October.


It didn't issue on the 13th, and it took about two days to catch someone on the chat. He was very helpful, and advised he'd flag the application for action. The status note on the tracker said something about waiting for documentation, but he confirmed that this was incorrect. It arrived yesterday.


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## vandriver (27 Oct 2021)

Applied for replacement passport on Friday 22nd.
Even with the weekend and a bank holiday,it arrived this morning.Amazingly efficient.


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## twofor1 (6 Jan 2022)

Unbelievably efficient at the moment despite covid absenteeism. 

I applied online yesterday morning for a straightforward renewal, and the new passport dropped in my letterbox this morning, a mere 25 hours after applying.


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## Pinoy adventure (6 Jan 2022)

twofor1 said:


> Unbelievably efficient at the moment despite covid absenteeism.
> 
> I applied online yesterday morning for a straightforward renewal, and the new passport dropped in my letterbox this morning, a mere 25 hours after applying.



Wow that’s quick


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## tallpaul (7 Jan 2022)

Amazing how the Public Service bashers will be startling quiet on this thread...


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## Páid (8 Jan 2022)

tallpaul said:


> Amazing how the Public Service bashers will be startling quiet on this thread...


Slightly off topic but I saw what Eddie O'Sullivan is quoted as saying this morning https://www.the42.ie/munster-identity-crisis-5648912-Jan2022/

It must be nice to be sitting behind a desk taking pot shots at something completely unrelated to sport in a sad attempt to be controversial.

Edited to correct the responsible person.


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jan 2022)

Páid said:


> Slightly off topic but I saw what Alan Quinlan wrote this morning https://www.the42.ie/munster-identity-crisis-5648912-Jan2022/
> 
> What would a washed up rugby player know about administration, regulation or innovation for that matter?
> 
> It must be nice to be sitting behind a desk taking pot shots at something completely unrelated to sport in a sad attempt to be controversial.


Is the ‘civil service bashing’ not an Eddie O’Sullivan quote in that article?

And the article isn’t written by Alan Quinlan…


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## Páid (8 Jan 2022)

Sorry, I meant to say "quoted" not written by and I got the name of the person wrong too.

I have corrected my post above. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## phoenix53 (8 Jan 2022)

We also had a fantastic experience with Passport renewal in December.  My son got his photo taken in a "Photo Me" booth in Tesco on a Tuesday afternoon.  It gave him 4 pictures and a code.  Went home.  Around 6pm did his renewal on line using the code for automatic photo upload.  Passport arrived in our house at 10am on Thursday morning.  Couldn't believe it.  A fantastic service.

I was telling my friends about the experience and there happened to be a man close by who said he worked in the Passport office and was delighted to hear me tell people about the good experience as they get such bad press.  He went on to say that if you use the renewal system with the photo code, there is rarely any issues.  He also said that it is once human interaction takes place, for eg, trying to use your own photo,  that issues start to happen.

The renewal system should work automatically, the new and children's passports are more difficult to process for whatever reason I don't know.  I imagine a lot more checks have to be in place.


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## arbitron (8 Jan 2022)

OH renewed on Monday this week, arrived Wednesday morning. Used own photo, no problem. Excellent service.


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## AnnaLo (28 Jan 2022)

Hi, I have applied online for my son's first Irish passport from UK. He's an Irish citizen through Naturalisation. I applied in 3rd November and the issue date was 7th of January. I submitted all the required supporting documents. The status is still "processing". The chat doesn't say when will it be issued. I don't know how long more to wait. He doesn't have any valid ID


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## Johnno75 (24 May 2022)

Department insists ‘no backlog’ as 195k people wait for new passports, and blames any delays on form errors
					

The Department of Foreign Affairs insists there is no backlog in processing passports and has blamed forms being filled out incorrectly, as almost 200,000 people wait for their delayed travel documents ahead of summer holiday season.




					m.independent.ie
				




Those darn customers and their incorrect applications! 

(But apart from the 195k customers waiting for their passports, there’s no delay).


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## joe sod (24 May 2022)

Maybe the deliberate policy last year of stalling issuing passport renewals to prevent people leaving the country last year is alot of the reason for the continuing backlog. They basically closed down the passport office during covid.
How were they able to process all the passports in the past when there were no "online" renewals and when it was all paper based.  I doubt the passport office has been downsized since then if anything they probably have more employees now?


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## Scoobydoobydoo (24 May 2022)

Applied online late last week and got it in the post this morning. 
Took a while to get the picture right but other than that it was a very smooth process....


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 May 2022)

Does anyone know if child renewals are taking any longer than adult renewals ATM?

Will send in a renewal for my daughter today, expiry of existing passport is not until 10 July so I should be on safe side.


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## Landscape (24 May 2022)

Applied for child renewals myself recently.  The first part of the application is online but then you need to print out the guardian/parent consent form and still bring to garda Station for signing. After I posted back these signed forms, it took about a week until the online tracker said they were received. From that date, the online tracker is telling me it will be another 3 weeks. 7 June. I hope it is accurate as going on hols soon after !!


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## Johnno75 (24 May 2022)

1. I recently submitted my own passport renewal online and got the passport back two days later. Top marks. 

2. I submitted my child’s passport application in early January. 

3. I heard nothing for two months and the tracker told me it was being processed. 

4. Throughout March and April I spend hours on the phone trying to get through unsuccessfully as the line was so busy. Ditto with their webchat facility. No joy. 

5. In April I eventually got through on the phone and was placed in a queue and after an hour I spoke to a human. She identified an issue with the Garda witness signature. This was never notified to me by email as soon as it was identified which would usually be the case. 

6. I got an email from them to download and print the Consent form and got it resigned and witnessed and submitted that day. 

7. Last week, I got an email saying the issue now was the child’s photo, which had been provisionally approved by the dfa website online process. The online dfa passport submission application cropped the very top of her head off, leaving no space between the top of her head and the photo border, and then approved the photo for submission. 

8. Clicked the link to re-upload the photo and the same issue arose. There was no facility to click “back” to resubmit a different photo so I had to apply for a new resubmission link to be emailed to me. That was last Monday week and I still await the link by email. 


It seems to me that instead of reviewing an application in its entirety to identify ALL possible issues, they instead stop processing it once they hit the first issue. 

This is inefficient and only adds more work on the Passport Office in the long run. As soon as they came across the first issue with my passport they never notified me of it. I had to chase them to establish the delay, hindered by their general unavailability over the phone and on webchat. When the issue was identified and remedied, they identified a new issue with the photo - a photo they had preapproved was now unsatisfactory. 

People make mistakes (up to half the people making applications by the looks of things), but this is no excuse for shoddy and inefficient systems. They perhaps should examine the categories of errors and focus on educating applicants to avoid such errors as well as having systems in place to facilitate the immediate rectification of such errors.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> 2. I submitted my child’s passport application in early January.


Was this a first-time application or a renewal?


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## Johnno75 (24 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Was this a first-time application or a renewal?


Renewal. Child.


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## Johnno75 (24 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Does anyone know if child renewals are taking any longer than adult renewals ATM?
> 
> Will send in a renewal for my daughter today, expiry of existing passport is not until 10 July so I should be on safe side.


They’re treated as a “complex” application by the Passport Office. Don’t know why, but perhaps to do with the fact that the application involves a child and they have to be sure the tees are crossed etc so it’s understandable I guess. That said, if it’s a renewal, you would have thought that it shouldn’t be too complicated given that the child had previously been issued with a passport. I dunno.


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## Seagull (24 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> They’re treated as a “complex” application by the Passport Office. Don’t know why, but perhaps to do with the fact that the application involves a child and they have to be sure the tees are crossed etc so it’s understandable I guess. That said, if it’s a renewal, you would have thought that it shouldn’t be too complicated given that the child had previously been issued with a passport. I dunno.


I'm presuming they're treated as complex because of the additional paperwork for the guardian/parent approval form.


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## POC (24 May 2022)

Landscape said:


> Applied for child renewals myself recently.  The first part of the application is online but then you need to print out the guardian/parent consent form and still bring to garda Station for signing. After I posted back these signed forms, it took about a week until the online tracker said they were received. From that date, the online tracker is telling me it will be another 3 weeks. 7 June. I hope it is accurate as going on hols soon after !!


No you don’t need to go to a Garda station for a child renewal. But you do need the parents signatures to be witnessed by someone you know from a list of professions. A friend who is a teacher witnessed my signature. Our GP witnessed my husbands signature while he was there for an appointment anyway. The passport arrived as expected about 3 weeks after we posted in the consent form.


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## Leo (24 May 2022)

Seagull said:


> I'm presuming they're treated as complex because of the additional paperwork for the guardian/parent approval form.


Yes, and to be absolutely certain that a separated parent isn't trying to obtain a passport so as to disappear that child from the country. 

Another thing I've heard a lot of people get wrong on first time child applications is ensuring that the witness provide a work telephone number that they can be contactable on. Mobiles and home phone numbers are not accepted, the instructions are clear on that, but many people don't read tham.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 May 2022)

Leo said:


> ensuring that the witness provide a work telephone number that they can be contactable on.


My work telephone number is a mobile number Would be the same for lots of witnesses.


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## joe sod (24 May 2022)

Seagull said:


> I'm presuming they're treated as complex because of the additional paperwork for the guardian/parent approval form.


Or its just "complex" because it has to be done manually by a person rather than automatically by their software system?

That might also explain why any glitch thrown by the automatic renewal software is thrown to the back of the queue and then not dealt with in a timely fashion


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## Landscape (24 May 2022)

POC said:


> No you don’t need to go to a Garda station for a child renewal. But you do need the parents signatures to be witnessed by someone you know from a list of professions. A friend who is a teacher witnessed my signature. Our GP witnessed my husbands signature while he was there for an appointment anyway. The passport arrived as expected about 3 weeks after we posted in the consent form.


Correct, it doesn't need to be a Garda. A teacher, GP, pharmacist, accountant etc etc are all options. But if they are not easily available to you, then the Garda Station works.


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## joe sod (25 May 2022)

Laramie said:


> There will be an explosion of people wanting to travel abroad, for lots of reasons. (My own passport expires next month.) I would have thought that our Government would realise this, and use some common sense. Unfortunately, like most things that they do, there will be a last minute reactive response to this.


Looks like you anticipated the likely massive backlog as a result of the government's ridiculous policy last year of stalling passport renewal to prevent people leaving the country,  the chickens are now coming home to roost for the shambolic passport office and the DFA


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 May 2022)

joe sod said:


> government's ridiculous policy last year of stalling passport renewal to prevent people leaving the country,


That's nonsense.

Two things happened - (1) Covid precautions for civil servants reduced on-site capacity for renewals particularly for first-time applications where a lot of manual scrutiny is needed; (2) a lot of people didn't travel for two years and let their passport expire, so on the demand side there is a huge increase.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> My work telephone number is a mobile number Would be the same for lots of witnesses.


Just out of interest, but do you witness many child applications? The online guide says that mobile numbers are not acceptable, and I know a family member who had an application delayed a while back because the witness ended up being out of the office on leave when the call came, they had to resubmit with an alternative witness.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> That's nonsense.
> 
> Two things happened - (1) Covid precautions for civil servants reduced on-site capacity for renewals particularly for first-time applications where a lot of manual scrutiny is needed; (2) a lot of people didn't travel for two years and let their passport expire, so on the demand side there is a huge increase.


Yep, pre-pandemic volume ran up to about 400k per annum, so far this year they've issued more than 500k.


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## Groucho (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> Yep, pre-pandemic volume ran up to about 400k per annum, so far this year they've issued more than 500k.



So they've already issued 25% more in the first 4½ months of this year?    That's a pretty impressive  performance, whatever their critics may say!


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

Groucho said:


> So they've already issued 25% more in the first 4½ months of this year?    That's a pretty impressive  performance, whatever their critics may say!


Yep, and at a time when many industries are struggling to hire staff.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> The online guide says that mobile numbers are not acceptable


Thanks, I hadn't noticed that. The form itself just says "work number" and I got the colleague who witnessed to put down his work landline that diverts to his mobile.

Otherwise it seems increasingly out of date as a criterion. I know a lot of people now who never get random inbound work calls.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Thanks, I hadn't noticed that. The form itself just says "work number" and I got the colleague who witnessed to put down his work landline that diverts to his mobile.
> 
> Otherwise it seems increasingly out of date as a criterion. I know a lot of people now who never get random inbound work calls.


I'd imagine it's designed to make it a little more difficult to have a friend pretend to be an appropriate witness. most roles are professionals they would expect to be working somewhere with landline access. We wnet with Garda witness to minimise the chances of issues.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> I'd imagine it's designed to make it a little more difficult to have a friend pretend to be an appropriate witness.


I agree. 

An older version of the form obliged an official stamp which I thought was a pretty good anti-abuse measure, but that field seems gone now.


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## T McGibney (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> most roles are professionals they would expect to be working somewhere with landline access.


True to some extent before WFH came to prominence. A lot less so now.


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## tnegun (25 May 2022)

FWIW 4 weeks start to finish for a complex/child renewal of an expired passport so no complaints here!


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## Johnno75 (25 May 2022)

Delays are delays, even if they are caused by the customer. For the Passport Office to say that a backlog doesn’t exist is disingenuous.

A waiting list of 200k who are experiencing delays is significant. A good process factors in the percentage of applicants projected to make errors in their application and will seek to assist the customer to minimise the errors as part of the process.

Instead, it seems that the passport office are speedily processing applications with no errors, but once an application is received with an error identified, it’s thrown into the bottom of the pile.

It would be more genuine for the Passport Office to admit there is a backlog, but that it is as a result of customer errors. Rather than just state baldly that there is no backlog. Once your application contains an error, you’re at the mercy of a very poor and inefficient process.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

T McGibney said:


> True to some extent before WFH came to prominence. A lot less so now.


The vast majority of approved occupations would still be expected to have a place of work with a landline number. Not too many dentists who only WFH with only a mobile number. But it's one people should be aware of alright, if your potential witness works from home a lot and haven't figured out how to forward their landline, then chose a different witness.


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## joe sod (25 May 2022)

Groucho said:


> So they've already issued 25% more in the first 4½ months of this year?    That's a pretty impressive  performance, whatever their critics may say!


How many did they issue during the pandemic though?  ,  that statistic curiously missing  , we know even from this thread that they were doing very little because people could not get passports even when few people were travelling. 
Imagine if Pfizer or moderna the vaccine companies worked on the basis of the passport Office,  we still would be years away from a covid vaccine?.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> Delays are delays, even if they are caused by the customer. For the Passport Office to say that delays don’t exist is disingenuous.


They are being asked specifically about delays in their processing. It would not be fair or accurate to judge their performance on the inability of people to complete the forms correctly or submit the correct documents.


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## Johnno75 (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> They are being asked specifically about delays in their processing. It would not be fair or accurate to judge their performance on the inability of people to complete the forms correctly or submit the correct documents.


I respectfully disagree. They are not counting the erroneous applications as part of the stats. That’s not painting the full picture because like it or not, people make mistakes and it’s part and parcel of the applications that the passport office have to deal with. 

As a customer, (albeit one who has made an erroneous application), as far as I am concerned, my child’s application is now stuck in the process and I am now encountering significant delay in having it dealt with. Mine has been a less than satisfactory experience and it comes down to the process.


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## T McGibney (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> The vast majority of approved occupations would still be expected to have a place of work with a landline number. Not too many dentists who only WFH with only a mobile number. But it's one people should be aware of alright, if your potential witness works from home a lot and haven't figured out how to forward their landline, then chose a different witness.


Working from home or indeed anywhere outside the normal place of work is impossible when you're a dentist. Ditto a surgeon. I'm struggling to think of too many other professional occupations where that is the case. Even solicitors, who all have landline numbers, tend typically to spend at least some of their working week in court.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

joe sod said:


> How many did they issue during the pandemic though? , that statistic curiously missing , we know even from this thread that they were doing very little because people could not get passports even when few people were travelling.


Is it curiously missing or did you just not bother looking? They issued 634k last year. So that definitely proves your theory that they were doing very little


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

T McGibney said:


> Working from home or indeed anywhere outside the normal place of work is impossible when you're a dentist. Ditto a surgeon. I'm struggling to think of too many other professional occupations where that is the case. Even solicitors, who all have landline numbers, tend typically to spend at least some of their working week in court.


True, but they will have a published landline that is verifiable and most likely someone who will answer the call. 

But to simplify it, a suitable witness is one of the below professions who is contactable via a landline.


> • Member of the Garda Síochána
> • School principal/vice principal / Teacher, School Secretary, Pre-school manager, Montessori teacher
> • Member of clergy
> • Medical doctor
> ...


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## Seagull (25 May 2022)

I wouldn't be at all surprised these days at a member of the clergy not having a land line. There are a good few churches that don't have a parish secretary. It's not unusual for a minister to work primarily from home, and they might prefer to have a mobile rather than a landline.


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## Leo (26 May 2022)

Seagull said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised these days at a member of the clergy not having a land line. There are a good few churches that don't have a parish secretary. It's not unusual for a minister to work primarily from home, and they might prefer to have a mobile rather than a landline.


Yeah, so if you ask a member of the clergy to be a witness and they can only offer you a mobile number, chose a different witness. Without a landline, they are not an acceptable witness.


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## Johnno75 (26 May 2022)

Leo said:


> Yeah, so if you ask a member of the clergy to be a witness and they can only offer you a landline number


Surely you meant to say “mobile number”?


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## Leo (26 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> Surely you meant to say “mobile number”?


I did. fixed!


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## Peanuts20 (26 May 2022)

Leo said:


> The vast majority of approved occupations would still be expected to have a place of work with a landline number. Not too many dentists who only WFH with only a mobile number. But it's one people should be aware of alright, if your potential witness works from home a lot and haven't figured out how to forward their landline, then chose a different witness.



There is an element here of the Passport office being back in the dark ages. I work you work from home for a multinational for example (and meet the criteria of someone who can and has signed these forms in the past), my "landline" number in effect is an AWS cloud solution that when someone rings it, pings the call through to my laptop. I could be anywhere when a call comes in. 

I applied for a new bank account recently, uploaded a photo and a copy of my photo id and they used photo comparison technology to confirm it. No need for anyones to countersign.  I get the need for a witness if no other ID is available but it shouldn't be the norm. After all, there are plenty of dishonest priests, bank managers, lawyers etc etc out there who probably sign

Interestingly a doctor can't sign a UK form unless they "know you well" whereas here they can


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## T McGibney (26 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> After all, there are plenty of dishonest priests, bank managers, lawyers etc etc out there who probably sign


What incentive would they have for doing so? Hardly monetary gain?


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## Peanuts20 (26 May 2022)

T McGibney said:


> What incentive would they have for doing so? Hardly monetary gain?


I don't mean they were signing it dishonestly but when you think that senior managers in Anglo who were jailed could have signed these forms, child abusing priests could have signed it, lawyers/doctors who have had complaints made about them etc etc. It so old school to think that people, because of a certain position in society that they hold, are more trustworthy then others. 

I've signed a fair few of these in the past (legitimately I might add) and no one has ever rang me to confirm it. Why is it done this way, because it always has been.


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## T McGibney (26 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> I don't mean they were signing it dishonestly but when you think that senior managers in Anglo who were jailed could have signed these forms, child abusing priests could have signed it, lawyers/doctors who have had complaints made about them etc etc. It so old school to think that people, because of a certain position in society that they hold, are more trustworthy then others.


But again what incentive would an Anglo manager or child abusing priest (nice typecast btw) or dodgy doctor have to sign something like this for someone they don't know from Adam? Seems like an odd hill to die on, particularly for someone with something to hide.

It's not as if any of these people are any more or less trustworthy than a dustman or backoffice worker, it's just that they happen to work in public-facing occupations and as such are probably in a good position to confirm the identity of people they encounter in the course of their work.


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## Peanuts20 (27 May 2022)

T McGibney said:


> But again what incentive would an Anglo manager or child abusing priest (nice typecast btw) or dodgy doctor have to sign something like this for someone they don't know from Adam? Seems like an odd hill to die on, particularly for someone with something to hide.
> 
> It's not as if any of these people are any more or less trustworthy than a dustman or backoffice worker, it's just that they happen to work in public-facing occupations and as such are probably in a good position to confirm the identity of people they encounter in the course of their work.


You are misunderstanding me, I'm not saying they are signing it for strangers, I only ever signed it for people I know for example. My point is that this archaic method of "verifying" people has resulted in criminals (in some cases) signing off on passport application forms simply because they were considered being in a position of trust. if you need someone to verify you, you might as well get your next door neighbour to do so. Getting someone to sign a form because of what they do for a living is not an effective risk control in this day and age.


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## T McGibney (27 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> You are misunderstanding me, I'm not saying they are signing it for strangers, I only ever signed it for people I know for example. My point is that this archaic method of "verifying" people has resulted in criminals (in some cases) signing off on passport application forms simply because they were considered being in a position of trust. if you need someone to verify you, you might as well get your next door neighbour to do so. Getting someone to sign a form because of what they do for a living is not an effective risk control in this day and age.


No, a peace commissioner is not a position of trust. Nor a lecturer. Nor in many cases is say a vet. (You don't have to be particularly trustworthy to be a good vet.)

So what if the person who correctly verifies your identity is a criminal, detected or otherwise?


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## Leo (27 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> There is an element here of the Passport office being back in the dark ages. I work you work from home for a multinational for example (and meet the criteria of someone who can and has signed these forms in the past), my "landline" number in effect is an AWS cloud solution that when someone rings it, pings the call through to my laptop. I could be anywhere when a call comes in.


Nothing dark ages about it. Being able to confirm a witness is who they say they are is an important part of the security process involved in issuing a passport. Being able to confirm the landline is useful to that process. Having a redirected landline, physical or VOIP is perfectly acceptable. 



Peanuts20 said:


> I applied for a new bank account recently, uploaded a photo and a copy of my photo id and they used photo comparison technology to confirm it. No need for anyones to countersign.


Are you honestly comparing the security requirements of opening a bank account with the issuing of a passport?


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## Leo (27 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> My point is that this archaic method of "verifying" people has resulted in criminals (in some cases) signing off on passport application forms simply because they were considered being in a position of trust.


And in those cases I presume that witness was prosecuted on discovery, and likely lost their jobs as a result of a criminal conviction. Up to 10 years in jail for supplying false information on a passport application.


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## Groucho (27 May 2022)

Today's (London) Times mentions a current backlog of 500,000 passports in the UK!      So the problem is not unique to Ireland - although I know that's not much consolation for the people who are waiting.


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## Steven Barrett (27 May 2022)

For children, the school secretary is a very handy person to sign the form. She will know the child and have no problem in signing it. She can't work from home so will have a work phone to be contacted on.


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## joe sod (27 May 2022)

Groucho said:


> Today's (London) Times mentions a current backlog of 500,000 passports in the UK!      So the problem is not unique to Ireland - although I know that's not much consolation for the people who are waiting.


But uk has 14 times irelands population so that would equate to a 40k backlog if dealing with irish population.  However passport office has 195k backlog almost 5 times the pro rata uk figures


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## Peanuts20 (27 May 2022)

Leo said:


> Nothing dark ages about it. Being able to confirm a witness is who they say they are is an important part of the security process involved in issuing a passport. Being able to confirm the landline is useful to that process. Having a redirected landline, physical or VOIP is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> 
> Are you honestly comparing the security requirements of opening a bank account with the issuing of a passport?


Yes. How different is it with the only exception being the use of a photograph to verify ID?  After all, you don't need a human to check your passport once it is issued, that can (and is) often done automatically at many airports around the world. My arguement is that the process, as it stands, where applications are "verified" by a person who is never checked (in my case, I have legitimately signed at least 10 forms over the years and no one has even contacted me to confirm it) is totally open to abuse and is probably being abused. 

We're stuck in the dark ages here and I'm delighted to see that the Govt has recognised that and stated that the form is to be reviewed.


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## Peanuts20 (27 May 2022)

Leo said:


> And in those cases I presume that witness was prosecuted on discovery, and likely lost their jobs as a result of a criminal conviction. Up to 10 years in jail for supplying false information on a passport application.


I've never said they signed the form illegally, my point that I am trying and seemingly failing to make, is that someone is entitled to sign a form because of their percieved role in life and they are deemed "more honest" then an ordinary Joe Soap. 

Let me put it another way, Mick Wallace is considered an appropriate person to witness such a form, Charlie Haughy was, Ray Bourke was, Fr Tony Walsh was.


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## Groucho (27 May 2022)

joe sod said:


> But uk has 14 times irelands population so that would equate to a 40k backlog if dealing with irish population.  However passport office has 195k backlog almost 5 times the pro rata uk figures



Fallacious.  You're assuming there that all of the applicants are Irish residents     However a significant proportion of them aren't, which is part of the problem.


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## Johnno75 (27 May 2022)

Interesting piece today online:









						€13m spent on passport service upgrades in five years
					

More than €13 million has been spent on a major upgrade of technology and "customer service improvements" for the passport service in the past five years.




					www.rte.ie


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## peemac (27 May 2022)

A huge issue is the number of errors on applications. 
My cousin works in DFA and she said that some people skip over questions as if they didn't matter and the number is in the multiple of thousands.

Some forget to send photos, some don't get the photos signed, some don't get Garda signature.

It's as if they think the questions are optional. Then they blame someone else.

But there has to be a better way - even having a dedicated passport Garda on set hours in  primary Garda stations who also checks all parts are filled.


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## Johnno75 (27 May 2022)

peemac said:


> A huge issue is the number of errors on applications.
> My cousin works in DFA and she said that some people skip over questions as if they didn't matter and the number is in the multiple of thousands.
> 
> Some forget to send photos, some don't get the photos signed, some don't get Garda signature.
> ...


I agree that customers need to take greater care. But not all the errors are the exclusive fault of the applicants.

Moreover, some errors are compounded by the poor systems in the Passport Office.

A Garda witness error in my application was not notified to me for months and when I eventually got through to them over the phone (a near impossible task) to establish the cause of the delay, it was only then that the error was identified to me. The online tracking system didn’t identify the error and simply stated for months that my application was “being processed”. I should have received an error notification email when it was first identified but alas, I didn’t. 

Having rectified that error, the submitted photo - which had been approved by their online system - turned out to be unacceptable as their own system cropped the top of the photo such as to render it unacceptable.

I’m now awaiting a resubmission link to be emailed to me for nearly two weeks, despite being advised that I could expect it within 5 working days.

It looks like we will have to travel to Dublin from the west and make an emergency travel appointment to be sure we can travel abroad during the summer. The application was first submitted on 4 January.


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## Groucho (28 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> I agree that customers need to take greater care. But not all the errors are the exclusive fault of the applicants.
> 
> Moreover, some errors are compounded by the poor systems in the Passport Office.
> 
> ...



That sounds like the kind of unacceptable customer service that Michael Ring was (rightly) critical of on Morning Ireland yesterday.   If you've the time, why not complain to the Ombudsman about your experience?  That way, the DFA will be called to account over it, rather than it simply disappearing into the ether.


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## Johnno75 (28 May 2022)

Groucho said:


> That sounds like the kind of unacceptable customer service that Michael Ring was (rightly) critical of on Morning Ireland yesterday.   If you've the time, why not complain to the Ombudsman about your experience?  That way, the DFA will be called to account over it, rather than it simply disappearing into the ether.


Thanks @Groucho , I might just do that. The priority is to get the darned passport though.

 I get annoyed with media reports that “it’s all the customer’s fault”, and “we process all correct applications in x days” when the applications with errors remain unprocessed for months.


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## peemac (28 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> Thanks @Groucho , I might just do that. The priority is to get the darned passport though.
> 
> I get annoyed with media reports that “it’s all the customer’s fault”, and “we process all correct applications in x days” when the applications with errors remain unprocessed for months.


If you apply online you are forced to fill in all relevant boxes. And then you get your passport 2-3 DAYS later.

The issue is first time passports that require extra scrutiny and not enough staff there to check them in a timely manner.

Then those with errors (literally tens of thousands) have to be processed back to the sender for rectification and then returned back.

So a combination of more staff and some way of scrutinising the application locally would get rid of the backlog.

Hence using key Garda stations with a couple of specific gardai or DFA officials at specific hours to deal comprehensively with first passport queries and checking and stamped as such, may be one option.


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## Johnno75 (28 May 2022)

peemac said:


> If you apply online you are forced to fill in all relevant boxes. And then you get your passport 2-3 DAYS later.
> 
> The issue is first time passports that require extra scrutiny and not enough staff there to check them in a timely manner.
> 
> ...


I did apply online. Daughter’s renewal (she’s a minor). “Complex” application apparently. 

In fairness my own application recently took 48 hours. But I can’t leave my 7 year old at home while we go abroad.


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## joe sod (28 May 2022)

Groucho said:


> Fallacious.  You're assuming there that all of the applicants are Irish residents     However a significant proportion of them aren't, which is part of the problem.


It's not "fallacious" how can you say that, at most only 10% are new applicants from NI and UK and those are from 2019 figures when the Brexit factor would have been at it's peak, if anything those applicants would have dropped substantially by now as Brexit is nearly 2 years ago now. You have also forgot about the UK overseas applicants for UK passports, sure isn't there a million UK expats in Spain and Portugal alone not to mention the rest of Europe, Australia and Canada, almost all applying for UK passports for their foreign born children


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## Leo (30 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> I've never said they signed the form illegally, my point that I am trying and seemingly failing to make, is that someone is entitled to sign a form because of their percieved role in life and they are deemed "more honest" then an ordinary Joe Soap.


So point to where someone has willingly risked 10 year for supplying false information? 

Where is anyone saying these professions are honest? Is it not more a case that people in these professions have more to loose from a criminal conviction and the prospect of 10 years in jail?


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## T McGibney (30 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> Let me put it another way, Mick Wallace is considered an appropriate person to witness such a form, Charlie Haughy was, Ray Bourke was, Fr Tony Walsh was.


So what? It's witnessing we're talking about, not character references, and somebody has to do it. Wallace for example is in an ideal position to know plenty of people, as were all the others in their time.


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## Johnno75 (31 May 2022)

Johnno75 said:


> I agree that customers need to take greater care. But not all the errors are the exclusive fault of the applicants.
> 
> Moreover, some errors are compounded by the poor systems in the Passport Office.
> 
> ...


Panic over. 

After being informed that my child’s photo did not meet the requirements and whilst awaiting a link for resubmission of the photo, the passport arrived yesterday. 

(Someone in there must have re-reviewed the application and decided that the photo was in fact ok.)


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## odyssey06 (2 Jun 2022)

Changes to Garda procedure for child passport applications to allow the Gardai to contact passport office:









						Passport Office to increase staff and tweak child application process in response to surge
					

The requirement for children to get parental consent forms witnessed by gardaí has been an issue.




					www.thejournal.ie


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