# Formula 1 and Rugby World Cup



## slamdunkin (21 Oct 2007)

great to see both English parties involved bottle it in time honoured fashion at the very final hurdle - after a poor start that brightened up my weekend a bit!!


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## Purple (21 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> great to see both English parties involved bottle it in time honoured fashion at the very final hurdle - after a poor start that brightened up my weekend a bit!!


 Not a very grown up attitude.


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## slamdunkin (21 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> Not a very grown up attitude.


 
so when you grow up you start rooting for England do you - at what age did you make the switch??


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## BillK (21 Oct 2007)

I hardly think that the performance of the rugby team could be described as bottling it. It was a bloody hard game from what I saw and the fact that all of the subs were used would suggest that the guys gave their all.

The hydraulic problem that cost Lewis Hamilton 30 seconds and relegated him to 18th place from which he battled back to seventh was probably more the cause of him not winning the championship than any lack of courage.


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## Purple (21 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> so when you grow up you start rooting for England do you - at what age did you make the switch??


 What switch?
The Sun reading, Coronation street watching, English Premier League/ Scottish Premier League supporting knob ends who spout incoherent anti-English rubbish make me sick. The UK is our nearest neighbour and we have more in common with them than any other country on Earth so grow up. That doesn't make me any less Irish than the next man; it just means that I have thought about what it means to be a citizen of this republic rather than basing my national identity on what someone wrote on a wall when I was in primary school.


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## shanegl (21 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> so when you grow up you start rooting for England do you - at what age did you make the switch??



You don't start "rooting" for them, you just grow out of your inferiority complex.


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## slamdunkin (21 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> What switch?


 
from having "a grown up attitude" to not having one - you make it sound like its a entity or comodity that you can buy down the shops.


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## slamdunkin (21 Oct 2007)

BillK said:


> I hardly think that the performance of the rugby team could be described as bottling it. It was a bloody hard game from what I saw and the fact that all of the subs were used would suggest that the guys gave their all.
> 
> The hydraulic problem that cost Lewis Hamilton 30 seconds and relegated him to 18th place from which he battled back to seventh was probably more the cause of him not winning the championship than any lack of courage.


 
oh yeah, I forget to give a big shout out to the English soccer team who this week bottled in taking their place in Euro 2008 - possibly saving us from their months of hype in the media


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## slamdunkin (21 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> What switch?
> The Sun reading, Coronation street watching, English Premier League/ Scottish Premier League supporting knob ends who spout incoherent anti-English rubbish make me sick. The UK is our nearest neighbour and we have more in common with them than any other country on Earth so grow up. That doesn't make me any less Irish than the next man; it just means that I have thought about what it means to be a citizen of this republic rather than basing my national identity on what someone wrote on a wall when I was in primary school.


 
well I am a consider myself Irish not a "citizen of the republic" - and just for the record I dont read the Sun, watch "Corrie" or support an EPL team.

Just love to see the Brits get beat, as unfashionable as that may be on the east coast!!


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## Purple (22 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> well I am a consider myself Irish not a "citizen of the republic"


 Who are you quoting there? I didn't say anything about being a "citizen of the republic", I said citizen of this republic, “this” being Ireland. Therefore I'm talking about the Republic of Ireland, i.e. this country. Do you follow? 



slamdunkin said:


> - and just for the record I dont read the Sun, watch "Corrie" or support an EPL team.


 Do you support a Scottish Premier League team, the one that doesn't know how to pronounce Celtic? Do you support that British team?
Do you read any UK news papers?
Do you watch any UK TV?



slamdunkin said:


> Just love to see the Brits get beat, as unfashionable as that may be on the east coast!!


 It's quite fashionable amongst some people on both coasts and in the middle but others have grown out of that inferiority complex.
I don't support England or any other UK team but I don't cheer for anyone but them. Since they did so well for a team that had been completely written off in the Rugby world cup I admired them as sportsmen and wished them well. That doesn't make me any less Irish than anyone else, just more secure in my Irishness.

By the way, you wouldn't have to listen to them if you didn't consume so much of their media.


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2007)

One thing that really bothered me about the _Rugby WC _final was them dragging a c. 3 (?) year old out to present the trophy when the poor child obviously did not want to be there and was petrified, bawling crying and shaking with nerves. To me this was a form of child abuse and yet I never heard anybody raise a peep about it. Despicable stuff in my opinion.


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## Sn@kebite (22 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> great to see both English parties involved bottle it in time honoured fashion at the very final hurdle - after a poor start that brightened up my weekend a bit!!


Who are we to mock the English?! - We have incompetence written all over us. The Irish rugby team could have gone a lot further imo. Let's not bother with the Irish Soccer (team(?))



ClubMan said:


> One thing that really bothered me about the _Rugby WC _final was them dragging a c. 3 (?) year old out to present the trophy when the poor child obviously did not want to be there and was petrified, bawling crying and shaking with nerves. To me this was a form of child abuse and yet I never heard anybody raise a peep about it. Despicable stuff in my opinion.


I had similar thoughts


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

If I told you I supported Derry City would that mean that I supported a British team in your eyes Purple!?!?As for inferiority complex - I find that a very poor argument - I love to see all smug t@*£s put in there place - the flavour is just nicer when its pompous English ones!!!


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

ClubMan said:


> One thing that really bothered me about the _Rugby WC _final was them dragging a c. 3 (?) year old out to present the trophy when the poor child obviously did not want to be there and was petrified, bawling crying and shaking with nerves. To me this was a form of child abuse and yet I never heard anybody raise a peep about it. Despicable stuff in my opinion.


 
I have to agree with you on that one - to be fairto that guy he did look awkward about doing it himself but seemed to just keep bringing the kid with him because that's what was in the choreographed plan


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2007)

I wouldn't blame the guy who was sent out with the two kids but rather the organisers for not dealing with the problem when it arose. Hopefully the child will be OK after that episode but it was a terrible thing to witness.


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> If I told you I supported Derry City would that mean that I supported a British team in your eyes Purple!?!?


No - obviously they're not _British_. They're a _UK _team playing in the _eircom League of Ireland_. A bit like _Cardiff _being a _Welsh _team playing in the _English Football League_. Or _Toronto FC _being a _Canadian _team playing in the _US MLS_.


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## Sherman (22 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> What switch?
> The Sun reading, Coronation street watching, English Premier League/ Scottish Premier League supporting knob ends who spout incoherent anti-English rubbish make me sick. The UK is our nearest neighbour and we have more in common with them than any other country on Earth so grow up. That doesn't make me any less Irish than the next man; it just means that I have thought about what it means to be a citizen of this republic rather than basing my national identity on what someone wrote on a wall when I was in primary school.


 
I think people take this supporting England thing too seriously. Why on earth should we support England, or any other country for that matter? England sure as hell don't support France, even though they are geographically far nearer than we are to England. France don't support Belgium. Last time I looked, Australia don't exactly cheer for New Zealand in any sport. It's healthy rivalry and schadenfraude (sp?), nothing more - or following Purple's argument should Arsenal fans cheer Chelsea if they make it to the Champions League final against say Real Madrid just because they're from the same city? Wallowing in another team's sporting misfortune is part of enjoying sport, as much as your own team winning - sport is after all primarily about rivalry.

There seems to have developed a certain orthodoxy in Ireland in recent years that if you don't support every England team as soon as Ireland is not a factor in any tournament / sporting event, that you're some kind of unreconstructed bigot. I reject that utterly - even if you don't agree with what I say above, many Irish people don't support English teams/athletes because of the nauseating jingoism of their sporting media.


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## Seagull (22 Oct 2007)

There is a big difference between not supporting England, and actively rejoicing when they lose. Saying that the England rugby team and Hamilton "bottled it" shows a lack of knowledge ot the sports involved. The rugby was a hard fought match, which SA were expected to win. England were probably more competitive in that match than anticipated.


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## ivuernis (22 Oct 2007)

I only wish the Irish team could have "bottled it" in the same fashion as England at the RWC. England exceeded expectations as this world cup so fair play to them, Ireland on the other hand...


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

Seagull said:


> There is a big difference between not supporting England, and actively rejoicing when they lose. Saying that the England rugby team and Hamilton &quot;bottled it&quot; shows a lack of knowledge ot the sports involved. The rugby was a hard fought match, which SA were expected to win. England were probably more competitive in that match than anticipated.


 
Actually Murray walker himself said that Lucy Hamilton bottled it - and it was obvious that their soccer team bottled it - both brought an immense amount of joy to my day.


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## Purple (22 Oct 2007)

Sherman said:


> I think people take this supporting England thing too seriously. Why on earth should we support England, or any other country for that matter? England sure as hell don't support France, even though they are geographically far nearer than we are to England. France don't support Belgium. Last time I looked, Australia don't exactly cheer for New Zealand in any sport. It's healthy rivalry and schadenfraude (sp?), nothing more - or following Purple's argument should Arsenal fans cheer Chelsea if they make it to the Champions League final against say Real Madrid just because they're from the same city? Wallowing in another team's sporting misfortune is part of enjoying sport, as much as your own team winning - sport is after all primarily about rivalry.
> 
> There seems to have developed a certain orthodoxy in Ireland in recent years that if you don't support every England team as soon as Ireland is not a factor in any tournament / sporting event, that you're some kind of unreconstructed bigot. I reject that utterly - even if you don't agree with what I say above, many Irish people don't support English teams/athletes because of the nauseating jingoism of their sporting media.



I don't automatically support England but in the case of the RWC I admired how they exceeded expectations. I also admired the fact that they were oldest team in the tournament, with the oldest player ever to play in a final. Therefore I supported their team when they played against South Africa. I would have cheered for Argentina if they had made it to the final against England as I also admire their team. 
As Seagull pointed out, there is a bid difference between supporting English teams as a matter of course and childishly cheering for anyone they play against.
As for the "nauseating jingoism of their sporting media", no one is forcing you to watch British TV or read British newspapers. Try the Irish media for a change.


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

ivuernis said:


> I only wish the Irish team could have &quot;bottled it&quot; in the same fashion as England at the RWC. England exceeded expectations as this world cup so fair play to them, Ireland on the other hand...


 
The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes)


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

Sherman said:


> I think people take this supporting England thing too seriously. Why on earth should we support England, or any other country for that matter? England sure as hell don't support France, even though they are geographically far nearer than we are to England. France don't support Belgium. Last time I looked, Australia don't exactly cheer for New Zealand in any sport. It's healthy rivalry and schadenfraude (sp?), nothing more - or following Purple's argument should Arsenal fans cheer Chelsea if they make it to the Champions League final against say Real Madrid just because they're from the same city? Wallowing in another team's sporting misfortune is part of enjoying sport, as much as your own team winning - sport is after all primarily about rivalry.
> 
> There seems to have developed a certain orthodoxy in Ireland in recent years that if you don't support every England team as soon as Ireland is not a factor in any tournament / sporting event, that you're some kind of unreconstructed bigot. I reject that utterly - even if you don't agree with what I say above, many Irish people don't support English teams/athletes because of the nauseating jingoism of their sporting media.


 
here here!!!


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## Purple (22 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes)


 You're not from Munster then...


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes)


Simply not true to say that nobody really cares about _Rugby_ in _Ireland_.


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## Sunny (22 Oct 2007)

I thought this current crop of English players handled themselves very well during this world cup. The underdog tag suited them as they lost alot of the arrogance that surrounded the 2003 vintage. I thought the way that they handled the 'no try' on Saturday night was a credit to them. Martin Johnson telling the commentator to stop going on about it was priceless!
I for one would not have been disapointed to see England win it but I was glad that South Africa did because I thought they deserved it as they remained unbeaten throughout the tournament. Credit to England though. If the Irish team had achieved what they did, we would have open top buses and receptions in the Phoenix Park.


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## Sherman (22 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> I don't automatically support England but in the case of the RWC I admired how they exceeded expectations. I also admired the fact that they were oldest team in the tournament, with the oldest player ever to play in a final. Therefore I supported their team when they played against South Africa. I would have cheered for Argentina if they had made it to the final against England as I also admire their team.
> As Seagull pointed out, there is a bid difference between supporting English teams as a matter of course and childishly cheering for anyone they play against.
> As for the "nauseating jingoism of their sporting media", no one is forcing you to watch British TV or read British newspapers. Try the Irish media for a change.


 
I never said I was forced to consume British media, although it is kind of hard given that we receive at a guess 20 times more British television stations than Irish - you might also look at the main RTE 9 O'Clock news of a Sunday evening - more often than not the first sporting item they lead with is that day's English football.

I don't care why you supported England in the rugby on Saturday - I was making a more general point.  Sport is one of the few facets of modern life where it is permissible to express basic (and base) emotions.  Live and let live - you may have evolved beyond most mere mortals, and well done on that, but like it or not sport is one of the few areas where it remains acceptable, nay expected, to voice visceral, illogical likes/dislikes, loves/hatreds, and where our basic emotions remain unsanitised by modern political correctness.


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2007)

Sherman said:


> but like it or not sport is one of the few areas where it remains acceptable, nay expected, to voice visceral, illogical likes/dislikes, loves/hatreds, and where our basic emotions remain unsanitised by modern political correctness.


Not quite true given the fact that many sporting organisations impose penalties (e.g. fines, bans) for unacceptable behaviour of supporters of a particular club/team (e.g. racist or sectarian chanting etc.). For example have you recently read the stadium rules than normally apply to _FIFA _licensed soccer stadiums? The ones that apply to [broken link removed] for example are fairly standard for _eircom League_ grounds.


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## Pique318 (22 Oct 2007)

I was disappointed Hamilton messed up trying to re-take Alonso on the first lap. that was a rookie error. But to be fighting for the championship in his first year at 22 is some achievement ! Jacques Villeneuve did it with Williams alongside Hill but he had experience of CART in the US prior to F1.

Glad Raikonnen won it instead of 'he who spits dummies because his rookie teammate isn't a rollover' Alonso !!


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## bullbars (22 Oct 2007)

The way our rugby & soccer teams have played in recent competitive tournaments I don't think we have any business pointing and laughing at English teams. They've been to the biggest stages in sport which is quite an achievment in itself. I wouldn't be Englands biggest fan but when we cant even qualify for major tournaments and take to laughing at England, who's players returned to a heroes welcome, I think we're the biggest losers then.


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## Staples (22 Oct 2007)

Pique318 said:


> Glad Raikonnen won it instead of 'he who spits dummies because his rookie teammate isn't a rollover' Alonso !!


 
Ah no, you're wrong there Ted.  His first name is "Fernando".


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## BillK (22 Oct 2007)

You take your opinions from Murray Walker? I didn't know he was Irish!

Another question which comes to mind - Have you ever been to, or played in, a rugby match?


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## rmelly (22 Oct 2007)

The funniest thing about the F1 WC outcome was the reaction of Alonso on podium and in the interview afterwards. He was delighted that Raikkonen won and Hamilton didn't. While you can hardly blame him (no driver likes seeing his team mate take the title), he was so blatantly taking pleasure from it that surely even the spanish fans must realise how immature and childish he is now? Had it not dawned on him that he had alos lost the title? Or did playing a part in denying Hamilton the title outweigh and take precedence over the chance of his winning?

Whatever about his chances of retaining his McLaren drive next year before the race (and they were minimal) he may as well pack his bags now, as I don't imagine Dennis or indeed most of the McLaren team will even look him in the eye again, let alone accept him as a part of their team, given that he clearly has no concept of the word.

Of course the last laugh is on Alonso, as this season he has managed to alienate 2 top teams (McLaren and Ferrari (for his role in the spying scandal)), lose his title, ruin his reputation, and finally, line himself up with no chance of regaining his title next year...


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## slamdunkin (22 Oct 2007)

BillK said:


> You take your opinions from Murray Walker? I didn't know he was Irish!
> 
> Another question which comes to mind - Have you ever been to, or played in, a rugby match?


 
I dont really care what Murray Walker says or thinks - I dont really care about formula 1 at all - its ranks up there with baseball and cricket for the most boring sports out there - however the accusation was made that "you dont know about the sport if you can say that" - surely Murray Walker, who I understand and recognise as someone who knows quite a bit about the sport, reckons that he bottled it and I think I would consider his opinion a little higher than yours - just on this subject mind you 

As you for playing rugby - I would never want to - generally the people follow rugby "get up my nose"


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## Purple (23 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> As you for playing rugby - I would never want to - generally the people follow rugby "get up my nose"



I never played rugby, I went to a GAA school, but I do like to watch it and have been to matches. "To say that the people follow rugby "get up my nose"" is a very sweeping statement and says more about you than them.


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## Staples (23 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> To say that the people follow rugby "get up my nose"" is a very sweeping statement and says more about you than them.


 
I think we know what he means though.  People have perceptions, rightly or wrongly, about the "image" of certain sports and to be fair, the sports themselves do little to challenge any myth that may exist.  IMHO, the IRFU does little to challenge the elitist image with which it's associated.


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## Purple (23 Oct 2007)

Staples said:


> I think we know what he means though.  People have perceptions, rightly or wrongly, about the "image" of certain sports and to be fair, the sports themselves do little to challenge any myth that may exist.  IMHO, the IRFU does little to challenge the elitist image with which it's associated.


Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.


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## slamdunkin (23 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
> If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
> When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.


 
I think if you read my post if does say "generally" therefore I think it would be safe to say that I was making a generalisation - please do try and keep up old boy!!


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## Purple (23 Oct 2007)

slamdunkin said:


> I think if you read my post if does say "generally" therefore I think it would be safe to say that I was making a generalisation - please do try and keep up old boy!!



My apologies, I stand most humbly rebuked.

Now, Does that mean that *in general* those who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.


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## ClubMan (23 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
> If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.


No - it's true!


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## Purple (23 Oct 2007)

ClubMan said:


> No - it's true!


I wasn't talking to you!


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## Rovers1901 (23 Oct 2007)

That image of the LOI tends to be the view of those who I would consider to be stereotypical rugger buggers (D4 Kiely heads).

The general perception of LOI among the greater body public is simply that it's rubbish.
At least that's my experience.....


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## Purple (23 Oct 2007)

Rovers1901 said:


> That image of the LOI tends to be the view of those who I would consider to be stereotypical rugger buggers (D4 Kiely heads).


That's my point; both stereotypes are incorrect.


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## Staples (23 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?.


 
No, but it's interesting that you described them thus. Do you believe this perception exists, rightly or wrongly?



Purple said:


> Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.


 
Good for you, but, with respect, your views are not necessarily represenative of the general public. 

Put it another way, if you take your skinny, John Player Blue smoking, tracksuit wearing bloke from a poor area, which sport do you reckon he's likely to follow most closely? 

Similarly, if you take a D4, Heiny-drinking, Beemer-loving, cigar-chomping, Armani-wearing type, which sport might one associate him with? 

Answers on a postcard............


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## Caveat (23 Oct 2007)

Staples said:


> Put it another way, if you take your skinny, John Player Blue smoking, tracksuit wearing bloke from a poor area, which sport do you reckon he's likely to follow most closely?


 
Lacrosse I reckon.



Staples said:


> Similarly, if you take a D4, Heiny-drinking, Beemer-loving, cigar-chomping, Armani-wearing type, which sport might one associate him with?


 
Dog fighting?


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## elefantfresh (23 Oct 2007)

Nice one Caveat - you just can't buy class


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## ClubMan (23 Oct 2007)

Staples said:


> Put it another way, if you take your skinny, John Player Blue smoking, tracksuit wearing bloke from a poor area, which sport do you reckon he's likely to follow most closely?
> 
> Similarly, if you take a D4, Heiny-drinking, Beemer-loving, cigar-chomping, Armani-wearing type, which sport might one associate him with?


Golf. In both cases.


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