# Landlord doesn't want me to take a lodger...



## vincentgav (9 Jul 2016)

hi there,

Basically, we're in a 2 bed house, the rent has been jacked up really high, €500per month extra. 

The issue is the landlord: he won't allow us to accept a lodger and rent out the second bedroom. We want to rent out that room, we're a couple in a 2 bed, apparently the landlord isn't keen on it due to wear and tear.

We think it's perfectly reasonable, given the price of rent to let the room out - it's unused otherwise!

What are our rights? If we have a lease in place, I feel it's our property and that the landlord has no right to dictate that.

Can we just let the room out anyway?

Thanks


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## Joe_90 (9 Jul 2016)

Your lease will I would imagine will not allow you to sub let the property. 

 It's a bit harsh of the landlord not to allow you share the rent over to a third person.


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## vincentgav (9 Jul 2016)

It's not covered in the lease. I just want to do so anyway. 

Like those deluded leases saying; no overnight guests allowed. There's no right to tell a tenant if they can or cannot have a guest over.

Maybe we can have a 'guest' over?


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## vincentgav (9 Jul 2016)

Joe_90 said:


> Your lease will I would imagine will not allow you to sub let the property.


 
By the way, it's not subletting, it'd be subletting if we moved out and got someone else in.


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## facetious (9 Jul 2016)

Unfortunately, a landlord does not have a right to check a lodgers references as he has no contract with the lodger. However, a lodger, after he has been in the property for 6 months, has the right to request the landlord that he become a co-tenant on the lease with yourselves. This the landlord may not want.

Furthermore, if during the first 6 months or while the lodger remains a lodger and the tenant vacates without notice, the landlord cannot look to the lodger for the rent money as the landlord and lodger have no contract. Thus, the landlord is out of pocket and must get rid of the lodger before he can re-let the property.

These are just two of the issues a landlord may have with tenants who have lodgers.


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## Gordon Gekko (9 Jul 2016)

What about Air BnB for a few extra quid?


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## vincentgav (9 Jul 2016)

But does he have a right to tell me that I cannot let out the room?

We wanna let the room out anyway, regardless of what the landlord wants. We rent the whole house, we feel we should have a right to do so.


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## vincentgav (9 Jul 2016)

Gordon Gekko said:


> What about Air BnB for a few extra quid?



We wouldn't want strangers in and out.


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## noproblem (9 Jul 2016)

Be careful, if he finds out you're doing it and against his wishes he could report you to "revenue". Now, that could become a problem for you. Landlords have been given a bad name over the past while and the vast majority do not deserve it. Some tenants think they can do whatever they want, the thing is they can't. Make things awkward for a Landlord and he'll bite back.


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## Sarenco (9 Jul 2016)

vincentgav said:


> But does he have a right to tell me that I cannot let out the room?



Yes.  It's his property and he gets to decide who can and cannot let the property.


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## diver (10 Jul 2016)

The rent has been jacked up really high......how high is high? It it the market rate for 2 bed properties in your area? 

If it's too high for you, why not move to a one bed property?

A landlord can decide who he lets the property to. I am a landlord of a 2 bed property and I would be quite annoyed if I found there were others in my property without me knowing about it.


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## landlord (10 Jul 2016)

I would be very annoyed if I found out my tenant had sub let out the second bedroom of my property. I go through a very stringent set of reference checks before I let my property and for me a tenant moving in and bypassing these checks is a recipe for disaster. If the rent review has not been carried out correctly you have reason to complain to the PRTB/threshold, if the market average rent has become too expensive for you, then I suggest you move to a suitably sized property in an area that you can afford.


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## PaddyBloggit (10 Jul 2016)

If your lease says nothing about it and your landlord says no that should be the end of it.

When the rent went up you should have decided then if you could have afforded it or not.

If not you should have moved on. Landlord might have regretted letting good tenants go if he had failed to get new tenants.

Don't irk the landlord by renting out a room without his consent. It will turn out to be a recipe for disaster.


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## newirishman (10 Jul 2016)

Might just be me but a rent increase of 500 euro is something else - regardless of what the current rent is, and what the so-called market is up to. This is not a way to treat tenants.
I would have no scruples irking the landlord to be honest.

Another good example why the property / rental market specifically in Dublin needs big time regulation.


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## vincentgav (10 Jul 2016)

landlord said:


> I would be very annoyed if I found out my tenant had sub let out the second bedroom of my property. I go through a very stringent set of reference checks before I let my property and for me a tenant moving in and bypassing these checks is a recipe for disaster. If the rent review has not been carried out correctly you have reason to complain to the PRTB/threshold, if the market average rent has become too expensive for you, then I suggest you move to a suitably sized property in an area that you can afford.



Thanks for suggestion! Let's assume I've thought of it all. I know the PRTB and what they do, thanks.

I don't care if the landlord would rather I didn't. We're renting the whole house.

It's not a sublet - a sublet would be if I moved out and let someone else in.

I suggest not wagging fingers and giving 'advice' that isn't being asked for.


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## Sarenco (10 Jul 2016)

If you take a lease on a property and then let (a portion of) that property to a third party - that's a sub-let.  You don't have to move out of a property to create a sub-lease.

If you do this without the consent of your landlord, you will be in breach of your contract and your "lodger" will be trespassing.

The market dictates what rent a particular property can command and a landlord is perfectly entitled to decide how many tenants s/he is prepared to have in a particular property - a tenant is not entitled to make this decision.


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## trasneoir (10 Jul 2016)

newirishman said:


> Might just be me but a rent increase of 500 euro is something else - regardless of what the current rent is, and what the so-called market is up to.


What's fictitious about the rental market? Do you think real rents are lower than reported?


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## facetious (11 Jul 2016)

Sarenco said:


> *If you take a lease on a property and then let (a portion of) that property to a third party - that's a sub-let.* * You don't have to move out of a property to create a sub-lease.*
> 
> If you do this without the consent of your landlord, you will be in breach of your contract and your "lodger" will be trespassing.
> 
> The market dictates what rent a particular property can command and a landlord is perfectly entitled to decide how many tenants s/he is prepared to have in a particular property - a tenant is not entitled to make this decision.


The creation of a sub-tenancy in respect of part only of the dwelling, the subject of a Part 4 tenancy or a further Part 4 tenancy, is prohibited. Furthermore, you cannot have two tenancies in the same property at the same time as there would be a breach of exclusive use by the two tenants (unless the landlord rents room by room).

If the landlord consents to a sub-letting, then the tenant moves out and becomes a landlord ('head-tenant') to the new sub-tenant occupant.
If the original tenant remains in the property, the new tenant is a licensee/lodger with few rights, however, he may ask the owner if he can become a tenant thus acquiring more rights and protection than remaining a licensee/lodger.


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## landlord (11 Jul 2016)

Vincentgav......Your attitude suggests to me that you're going to do what you're going to do regardless of any advice you've been given here.


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## Leo (11 Jul 2016)

vincentgav said:


> I don't care if the landlord would rather I didn't. We're renting the whole house.



Renting a house does not entitle you to do whatever you wish. If you want to make such decisions, you need to own it.



vincentgav said:


> It's not a sublet - a sublet would be if I moved out and let someone else in.



A sub-let is when a tenant leases property to a sub-tenant. You don't have to move out.



vincentgav said:


> I suggest not wagging fingers and giving 'advice' that isn't being asked for.



I suggest you're in the wrong place if you just want people to agree with you.


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## vincentgav (11 Jul 2016)

landlord said:


> Vincentgav......Your attitude suggests to me that you're going to do what you're going to do regardless of any advice you've been given here.



Not to be rude earlier, apologies if I was. But you might be right there, I just may do whatever. 

The rent review was put up 2 months ago. There was another tenant in place in the other room, this decision not to be ok with another tenant is a recent whim. Besides, the landlord reckons he can get more if he rents it out fresh. If he wants the crazy figure he thinks he can get he'll have to rent it as a 2 bed. Another tenant will just get someone in there anyway and let out the room.

I'm in discussions trying to get him to agree, he's thinking about it.


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## vincentgav (11 Jul 2016)

Sarenco said:


> If you take a lease on a property and then let (a portion of) that property to a third party - that's a sub-let.  You don't have to move out of a property to create a sub-lease.
> 
> If you do this without the consent of your landlord, you will be in breach of your contract and your "lodger" will be trespassing.



Do your work in property/lettings? Sorry my man, but you're not right. People think that they know. Trespassing is nonsense, it's MY home for the duration of the lease. Just as a landlord CANNOT tell me that I can't have guests over in the house - he's not entitled to do that.


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## aristotle (11 Jul 2016)

Ah OP, are you having a laugh? The advice you are getting is very clear. This is not about "guests" or having friends over etc, its about a permanent "lodger" living in the property.

To make it simple for you, you wouldn't accept your landlord showing up and saying "hey, I am putting another people into the house to live with you", so likewise, you cant just rent out a room in the house to someone else. There is a lease in place which you signed. Don't be playing silly.


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## Sarenco (11 Jul 2016)

vincentgav said:


> Do your work in property/lettings? Sorry my man, but you're not right. People think that they know. Trespassing is nonsense, it's MY home for the duration of the lease. Just as a landlord CANNOT tell me that I can't have guests over in the house - he's not entitled to do that.



Well, why did you ask the question if you are so sure you know the answer?

Here's an example of a covenant in a standard, pre-printed agreement for the letting of a private house:-

"_To use the Premises, as a private residence only, for his own use.  Not to assign, sublet or part with or share the possession of the Premises or any part thereof, and not to take lodgers or paying guests and not to use or permit the Premises to be used for any activity ... without first obtaining the consent in writing of the Landlord"._

The wording of your particular letting agreement may be slightly different but I have never seen a letting agreement for a private house that does not restrict the use of the dwelling to the named tenant.  In any event, the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 imposes a similar obligation on tenants not to assign or sub-let a tenancy without the written consent of the landlord (which consent the landlord may, in his or her discretion, withhold).

Again, you cannot lawfully take a lodger without the consent of your landlord. 

To be honest, I think your landlord was nuts to renew your tenancy if you were previously in breach of a covenant and your attitude to other posters here speaks volumes.


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## Branz (11 Jul 2016)

vincentgav said:


> hi there,
> 
> Basically, we're in a 2 bed house, the rent has been jacked up really high, €500per month extra.
> 
> ...





vincentgav said:


> Not to be rude earlier, apologies if I was. But you might be right there, I just may do whatever.
> 
> The rent review was put up 2 months ago. There was another tenant in place in the other room, this decision not to be ok with another tenant is a recent whim. Besides, the landlord reckons he can get more if he rents it out fresh. If he wants the crazy figure he thinks he can get he'll have to rent it as a 2 bed. Another tenant will just get someone in there anyway and let out the room.
> 
> I'm in discussions trying to get him to agree, he's thinking about it.



He wants you out, period.


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## vincentgav (15 Jul 2016)

Branz said:


> He wants you out, period.



I've actually gotten him to come around, I'm letting the room on a license basis. So I'm responsible for the whole place now.

So we're staying on.

It seems he was just trying to let the place to us and not have anyone else there, have his cake and eat it too. I told him that it was too much for us without the other room let out and that if he wanted this rent or more, he'd have to let it as a 2 bed anyway.


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## peteb (15 Jul 2016)

Branz said:


> He wants you out, period.



He's probably right to.


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## landlord (16 Jul 2016)

I would like to think that as a landlord I would be a good enough judge of character to never let my property to someone like vincentgav in the first place. You can usually tell within a few seconds whether a tenant is suitable or not. (16 years experience now).


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