# Tips for a warmer house



## WGT (8 Jan 2009)

Hi,
    Our house which we purchase about 3 years ago is about 30 years old.
In winter it gets very cold but otherwise it's fine. We've been meaning to do something about it and the fact that there's a baby on the way has helped focus our minds on doing something.
    The main issue as we see it is that we have wooden stairs going up to the attic which is completely open (well the width of the stairs). At the moment we have a makeshift piece of plywood (cut to the size of the gap) covering the gap. But there are still gaps in the bannisters where the air can get out. As air rises I guess most of the heat from the rads is just going up to the attic.
   I'm thinking there's no point in insulating the attic until we sort out the gap, or do you guys have any other ideas?


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## Sully1 (8 Jan 2009)

Sounds so silly but keeping all room doors shut makes a big difference. Pulling curtains as it gets dark helps.
wearing an extra layer or two helps. make sure all your rads have been bled as well. 
HTH


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## eamonn123456 (8 Jan 2009)

I've been told that this situation is somewhat like a leak in a bucket - doesn't matter how impermeable the bucket material is, if you have a big hole in it then the water will all leak out.

Yes, hot air rises and will go straight up into your attic, being constantly replaced by an unlimited supply of cold air falling in through the gap or from airvents or other airgaps elsewhere in the house.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2009)

Are you sure that the main issue is the stairs? Sounds to me like you need to look at the overall house insulation top to bottom. Our stairs runs directly off the living room due to the layout of the house but because the house is pretty well insulated (1995 _Goldshield _build) the whole house still retains heat fairly well and generally keeps warm most of the day from just the two storage heaters downstairs (effectively open plan downstairs with stairs off front room).


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## eamonn123456 (8 Jan 2009)

Sorry, I was assuming you meant an attic at the top of those stairs, ie uninsulated and with lots of ventilation (cold air) via the eaves.  If so, I stand by what I said.  If you mean a converted loft then that is a different story, but hot air will still tend to rise and go up there if its open.

If its just an attic, best thing is to close off the gap and put about 300mm insulation over the joists in the attic.


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## walsher (9 Jan 2009)

Would agree with clubman. Bought a house two years ago which was constructed in 1972 (and last decorated then too). It was freezing last winter, not helped by the single glazing and hollow block wall construction. So battened of the inside face of the external walls and insulated with 35mm kingspan then plasterboard drylined. Replaced the windows and put 250mm in the attic. Also insulated between the joists on the ground floor. made a huge difference but had to move out while doing it


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## DavyJones (9 Jan 2009)

Sully1 said:


> Sounds so silly but keeping all room doors shut makes a big difference. Pulling curtains as it gets dark helps.
> wearing an extra layer or two helps. make sure all your rads have been bled as well.
> HTH



Agree with all the above and just to add to it. If you have long curtains, make sure they don't cover top of rad as you are heating the space between the window and the closed curtain.  tuck ends of curtains on sill to keep top of rad free.


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## Shawady (9 Jan 2009)

walsher said:


> Would agree with clubman. Bought a house two years ago which was constructed in 1972 (and last decorated then too). It was freezing last winter, not helped by the single glazing and hollow block wall construction. So battened of the inside face of the external walls and insulated with 35mm kingspan then plasterboard drylined. Replaced the windows and put 250mm in the attic. Also insulated between the joists on the ground floor. made a huge difference but had to move out while doing it


 
Walsher, what the cost to get the dryliningand insulation done to the walls? I'm in a 1972 house too, and the surveyor said we would have to get it done at some stage.
I reckon I will need to do something with the attic too but am hoping to convert it at some stage.


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## nesbitt (9 Jan 2009)

DavyJones said:


> Agree with all the above and just to add to it. If you have long curtains, make sure they don't cover top of rad as you are heating the space between the window and the closed curtain. tuck ends of curtains on sill to keep top of rad free.


 Totally agree makes a bit difference.


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## walsher (9 Jan 2009)

I'd most of the work myself (Battening insulating and plasterboarding) to keep the costs down then got someone in to do the taping and jointing for me. From memory the battens, insulation and plasterboard was roughly about € 800 and the dryliner €1,000. I would probably still insulate your roof space now if your not planning to convert for a few years as the mineral wool insulation is relatively cheap and keeps the place warm


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## Wexfordguy (9 Jan 2009)

My house is freezing too..how muh would it cost to insulate the attic?


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## milly123 (9 Jan 2009)

Homebase have a special on insulation at the moment, think its €7 per roll 100mm thick, one side of which is foil....  only insulated our attic this week.


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## Vinnie_cork (9 Jan 2009)

My house is a standard 1200 sq ft 3 bed semi built circa 2001, But I still felt I could benefit from insulating the attic further, It cost aprox €130 to lay 170mm insulation myself. I purchased the rolls from a well know DIY store which were having an offer (plus brought my dad alond to buy it as he is over 60 and said store offers further 10% discount on certain days) 

We also did my parents house aprox same size but built in 1985. They had minimal existing insulation from when the house was built. They also had their cavity walls insulated last year with a beaded type insulation pumped into small holes in the exterior walls. Their house used to be an ice box and their heating used to be constantly turned on, this has now changed and is now nice and snug. The also replaced their single glazed windows a few years back. 

Of these measures, the most cost-effective are loft insulation, then cavity wall insulation. The proportion of heat loss through different elements of the building envelope is generally stated as being as follows.

Walls 35%
Roof 25%
Floors 15%
Draughts 15%
Windows 10%

So generally is best to try reduce all these areas of losses, but the main culprits are walls & roofs.

The lower the U-Value the better the heat loss, so the 170mm or 200mm maybe slightly dearer than the 100mm but has a much lower U-Value. But this depends on the pruduct, a 170mm thick layer may be better than a 200mm layer


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## WaterSprite (9 Jan 2009)

Has anyone gotten their breeze blocks "filled"?  My kitchen extension is only block and plasterboard and an insulation chap said that it would be next to impossible to dry-line the inside (or outside, as there's too small a gap between my wall and the neighbour's) but suggested (half-heartedly) getting the gaps in the existing blocks "injected" with some sort of insulating "stuff" (see how much I know about this?


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2009)

Vinnie_cork said:


> (plus brought my dad alond to buy it as he is over 60 and said store offers further 10% discount on certain days)
> 
> We also did my parents house aprox same size but built in 1985.



Your parents could probably have gotten the attic done for free.


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## DavyJones (9 Jan 2009)

ClubMan said:


> Your parents could probably have gotten the attic done for free.
> [/font][/color]



This is not a very well known thing that should be mentioned as much as possible. I tell all my older clients about it.


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## Aidomoss (10 Jan 2009)

Who do you contact to get this done outside of Dublin. It states on the Energy Action web site that it's for Dublin only!!!! 

In terms of a warmer house you could insulate the attic (and any other place cold air is coming in) with expandable foam. I'm not sure of how good it is but seems easy to apply and also gets into all the nukes and crannys.


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## walsher (10 Jan 2009)

Watersprite,

Don't understand why you could'nt dryline the inside of the house. I battened the interior walls of mine and insulated but kingspan also have a insulated bonded plasterboard. If your house was built the same as mine some of the hollow sections of the breeze block where filled with mortar which would not have allowed the blown material to get all sections of the wall, and also you would still have what they call cold bridgeing where the concrete block bridges from outside to inside.


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## ClubMan (10 Jan 2009)

Aidomoss said:


> Who do you contact to get this done outside of Dublin. It states on the Energy Action web site that it's for Dublin only!!!!


Just call them and see if they can help. It's possible that the website is out of date or that there are similar schemes in operation outside _Dublin_.


> In terms of a warmer house you could insulate the attic (and any other place cold air is coming in) with expandable foam. I'm not sure of how good it is but seems easy to apply and also gets into all the nukes and crannys.


Bear in mind that a certain level of ventilation around the eaves is recommended in attic spaces!


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## WaterSprite (10 Jan 2009)

walsher said:


> Watersprite,
> 
> Don't understand why you could'nt dryline the inside of the house. I battened the interior walls of mine and insulated but kingspan also have a insulated bonded plasterboard. If your house was built the same as mine some of the hollow sections of the breeze block where filled with mortar which would not have allowed the blown material to get all sections of the wall, and also you would still have what they call cold bridgeing where the concrete block bridges from outside to inside.



If I was to dryline the inside, I'd lose (already precious) space plus have to take off all the kitchen cabinets, worktops etc.  For the price of that, it's not really worth it.  Will look into the insulated bonded plasterboard though and see if I can keep the space I have by using it - then my only problem would be taking the kitchen apart!

Didn't really understand what you mean by the breeze blocks - you don't think there are still gaps in them?

Thanks v much
Sprite


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## sydthebeat (10 Jan 2009)

Yorky said:


> I'd like some tips too as I don't know what more to do:
> 
> House three years old
> Had cavity filled with bonded bead on top of existing insulation
> ...



what do you mean disused???
wall vents are passive in nature and are never 'out of use'.....

This is a dangerous thing to do and they should be either reopened or remedial work done to allow a steady flow of fresh air into these rooms. The health risks associated with non-ventilation are many....

alos, these 'well known' foam boards have a gas called 'pethane' in them. this is an inert harmless gas... and only disipates extreemly slowly from these boards.. also these boards are usually used in situations where the air around them is ventilated or semi ventilated....


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## sydthebeat (10 Jan 2009)

for example, fans in en-suites or bathrooms????

just make sure you always open the window after showers / baths!!


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## brian mc (11 Jan 2009)

WaterSprite said:


> Has anyone gotten their breeze blocks "filled"? My kitchen extension is only block and plasterboard and an insulation chap said that it would be next to impossible to dry-line the inside (or outside, as there's too small a gap between my wall and the neighbour's) but suggested (half-heartedly) getting the gaps in the existing blocks "injected" with some sort of insulating "stuff" (see how much I know about this?


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## brian mc (11 Jan 2009)

It seems that i am not the only one with the same problem.  In my case the extension was never sealed and as a result there is a constant draught which causes the extension to be colder.  Is it that the room does not retain the heat or a draught? Did your insulation chap suggest any way of insulating or sealing the gap between your extension and the neighbours?


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## walsher (11 Jan 2009)

WaterSprite said:


> If I was to dryline the inside, I'd lose (already precious) space plus have to take off all the kitchen cabinets, worktops etc. For the price of that, it's not really worth it. Will look into the insulated bonded plasterboard though and see if I can keep the space I have by using it - then my only problem would be taking the kitchen apart!
> 
> Didn't really understand what you mean by the breeze blocks - you don't think there are still gaps in them?
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, what I found when I was making an existing window opening into a door was that when they were building the house the mortar had been falling into the hollow of the block and eventually blocked some of the holes so that you wouldn't be able to pump the insulation all the way up the wall.


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## WaterSprite (11 Jan 2009)

brian mc said:


> It seems that i am not the only one with the same problem.  In my case the extension was never sealed and as a result there is a constant draught which causes the extension to be colder.  Is it that the room does not retain the heat or a draught? Did your insulation chap suggest any way of insulating or sealing the gap between your extension and the neighbours?



In my case, it's purely insulation related - there are no draughts, luckily enough.  The extension was built with about a 1-inch gap between the outside of one of the walls and my neighbour's side of the house.  So getting any sort of board in there will be impossible (unless there's external board that can withstand the elements).  Thinking out loud, I may be able to put some "no more gaps" stuff in there, but probably won't get it all along the wall.  I got a free insulation survey from some chap in Dublin - unfortunately I can't find their website right now but a number of the insulation places will do it.  It was worth it at least because I could identify the problem, albeit there was little yer-man could do.  If your problem is with a draught, I'd imagine it might be easier to fix than if it's a basic insulation problem.

Walsher - thanks for the clarification.  I might still try to get someone out to see if it is possible to fill the cavity bricks.  The room is totally unlivable without blow heaters in the winter.


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## Thirsty (15 Jan 2009)

I installed one of these and whilst it did make a very appreciable difference to the heat retention in the living room; when it was closed down the sooty/smoky smell from the chimney was unbearable and after a few days permeated the whole house.

I had had the chimney cleaned before the closure was fitted and had it done a second time afterwards but it made no difference.

Credit where credit is due however, the company removed the closure and gave me a full refund.


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## nearly40 (15 Jan 2009)

Our house was built in 1994, would this have cavity insulation? How would you find out, what sort of trades people do this and any reccommendations for Dublin please.


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## sydthebeat (15 Jan 2009)

nearly40 said:


> Our house was built in 1994, would this have cavity insulation? How would you find out, what sort of trades people do this and any reccommendations for Dublin please.



have you any flexi vents in the house....  ie from a cooker hood etc..

if so follow them to the wall and se if you can disconnect it..
the shine a torch into the hole to see what the construction make up is...


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## eamonn123456 (15 Jan 2009)

Open your meter box, and have a look can you see whats in the cavity.


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## living:room (15 Jan 2009)

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but anyone interested in making their house a bit warmer might want to take a look at this link:

http://www.cultivate.ie/learning/green_building/basic_domesite_energy_auditing_3.html

It's a one-day course run at the Cultivate Centre in Temple Bar by Sustainability Ireland called Basic Domestic Energy Auditing. I went on it before Xmas and found it incredibly useful, even as an Architect who has some knowledge and training in this area.

It is very practical and non-teckie, offering advice about how to tackle all the different ways that heat and energy could be escaping from your home - everything from improving insulation in the attic to stopping draughts around doors and windows. It even gives the home improvements a ranking based on which are easiest to do and will have a real impact on your home. And there were lots of opportunities to ask questions about how to solve problems that may be specific to your own home.

I would definitely recommend it to anyone who wants to get a better understanding of how their home uses and loses energy. 

This is particularly relevant right now with the new legislation which kicked in on 1st January which means anyone selling or letting a second hand house must have a Building Energy Rating certificate to show the energy performance of the house to potential buyers or tenants.

One of the things discussed was the whole issue of chimneys and the use of proprietary chimney closers like the balloons that you inflate to block the air. It was recommended that these only be used it you are also putting a cap on the top of the chimney to prevent water coming in, otherwise it might build up on top of the balloon (or whatever you're blocking you're chimney with) and end up seeping into the brickwork and causing damp..

I'll be posting a bit more information about what was covered on the course in my blog on www.livingroom.ie, if you want to check it out in the next couple of days.


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