# Added to the ICB list for missed loan payment, but never notified.



## Zulu2002 (4 Mar 2014)

Hi folks, could use some advice. In 2009 I took out a 5yr car loan with UB. I repaid via DD. I cleared the loan after 24 months.
Last year I applied for a mortgage and heard that I was listed on the ICB. I got a report and it stated that I had missed a payment of the loan and hence was added. 
I n november contacted UB who claim I missed a payment, so they added me to the ICB. They never notified me. And until last year I never knew about it.

So I've been chasing them since november and only today got through to a "complaints handler". His position is that it's my responsibility to ensure that the direct debits are paid, and so he's not happy to do anything about it.

My position is - if i was notified I'd have paid, why wasn't I notified?

He's going to check if there's any regulatory obligation for them to notify me, and come back to me. They aren't budging. 

So I take it there's no regulatory obligation for them to notify me? I take it there's nothing I can do??


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## emeralds (4 Mar 2014)

Did you miss a payment?


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## Zulu2002 (4 Mar 2014)

I genuinely don't know. I'm trying to get bank statements from my current account to find out.


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## Zulu2002 (7 Mar 2014)

So I checked the payments and guess what, I made the payment! It transpires I made the payment via standing order or direct debit on the 14th, but it's looking like the payment needed to be in UB's account on the 14th. They're checking their side, but it seems it takes two days to clear. 
The Ulster Bank team kindly referred me to the ombudsman, and told me I was "going on and on about it". Nice customer service. :rolleyed:


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## emeralds (7 Mar 2014)

So their system notifies a late payment to the ICB immediately?


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## Zulu2002 (8 Mar 2014)

According to the clown of a customer service agent I spoke to. Clearly that is the the case but they aren't happy to admit that any mistakes may have happened on  their end


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## Seagull (11 Mar 2014)

If it was made by direct debit, then it would appear the issue lies on their side for demanding it late.


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## Gerry Canning (11 Mar 2014)

Zulu . Did you get your own ICB report?or did bank give it out verbally to you ?
If not , 

Send payment e6 favour of Irish Credit Bureau ltd, ICB House , Newstead, Clonskeagh Rd, Dublin 14 , along with their personal enquiry form. You can download it from them.
On receipt of your ICB report you will really see where the (non-payment) issue is.
As a good guide, your ICB is not impacted until one month is down.

Write (do not phone) to Ulster , explain your position and ask to have ICB amended.
If they do not do that you can ask ICB to note the issue.Keep notes/copies of any correspondance/phone calls.

 Ulster put you through all that hassle over maybe 2 days? If it was standing order Ulster Bank to Ulster Bank ,then you paid exactly on time.
If your standing order was Another Bank to Ulster Bank , then it might take 2 days.
If you paid via Direct Debit , issue is with Ulster.

It is very important to have statements , facts etc  lined up before you do anything.


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## Zulu2002 (12 Mar 2014)

I got the ICB report, and it shows that I was one month behind for every month of the loan except month 11 and month 23, and the loan was closed month 24.

UB can't understand why the ICB are reporting this. They cannot confirm why this is. As far as they are concerned, their records are that I missed a payment on month 4.

My records show that I made all payments (albeit that one on month 4 was made on the 14th when it was due so may have been ~2 days late).

I've written a letter, but haven't posted it. I did ring their [broken link removed] - on Friday with a final hope that someone beyond the branch might actually care about customer services, but alas it seems I was foolhardy and naive. They simply didn't bother ringing me back.

So I'm be posting the letter and taking it up with the ombudsman. They are the absolute epitome of  arrogance.


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## cremeegg (12 Mar 2014)

I have received compensation 3 times in the last 12 months from UB for mistakes they made in administering my account.

Once for 58 cent over an issue I was not even aware of.

Once for €50 over an issue that required me to travel unnecessarily to the branch

Once for nearly €1,000 over a delay in their releasing my money to my account. This caused me to miss DDs etc.

So I consider myself something of an expert in this area. Here is my advice.

Write to UB complaints dept, outline your concern. You don't have to have every detail tied down, just explain why you are unhappy.

They will investigate, on the major issue above I got 3 letters saying they were still investigating and would get back.

Eventually they will outline their version of events. If they consider they are in the wrong they will offer compensation. If you don't agree with their facts write or phone to say so. 

If you are still not happy then you can contact the ombudsman. However this is probably better as a threat than as an actual option.

My experience is that UB systems are a joke but they are willing to pay people to avoid complaints to the ombudsman.

Good luck


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## Gerry Canning (12 Mar 2014)

Zulu; 

Ulster Bank have the responsibilty to ensure info to ICB is correct.
Suggest do not bother with Ombudsman.

From what you state you have been defamed by Ulster , not just that your mortgage application could not go through because of it.

You have enough info to sue Ulster. Suggest you do that.
The (old) customer service or Ombudsman route ain,t working ,in that similar complaints keep re-appearing.
If you need good solicitor who will advise you at no cost to you in first instance let me know.

I do not want to sound too hard on any Bank , but unless it costs them real money and they have legal precedent set against them ,issues like this will re-re-re appear .


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## Time (12 Mar 2014)

Data Protection Commissioner can force UB to fix the ICB record.


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## Zulu2002 (12 Mar 2014)

Thanks for advice so far. How can I sue though? I can't afford to lose a legal battle with a bank. Besides, _if_ I was to win, how could I calculate the cost of their actions?

As it stands, I might get one month of the loan returned (the adviser mockingly suggested _if I did_ make the payment I'd be due a refund as I'd have been overcharged when closing out the account) which is worth €450 to me, but other than that, I've no tangible loss.

Interesting angle with the DPC. Has anyone gone this route - it seems very round-the-houses. Wouldn't the Financial Ombudsman be a little more direct?


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## Gerry Canning (12 Mar 2014)

Time. 

I think the issue is that customer has been defamed by Bank and worse ,said Bank is blaming him/her.!

Of course he/she can go through the hoops of having ICB corrected , but tell me , what other organisations would we permit this from? Banks seem to still retain an untouchable status.
In case there is any doubt , I trust Banks as much as I trust politicians!


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## Zulu2002 (12 Mar 2014)

Well Gerry I entirely agree with you there. The arrogance and dismissiveness I've faced from the get go.
From the start the assumption was that I didn't make the payment. He sarcastically told me I might be due a refund.
When I proved that I did make the payment. I was told I was "going on and on about it". And that it probably hadn't cleared in time.
As it stands I'm waiting for them to get a copy of the account from head office, which will take upto 10 working days. When I asked shouldn't this have been done in October last year when I raised the issue, he just said "yeah probably" and then said "we're just covering the same ground here; we're talking in circles". 

They're a shower of gits.


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## Gerry Canning (12 Mar 2014)

Zulu2002.

From experience, it is amazing how a well crafted solicitors defamation claim moves things on . Also , there is a satisfaction in passing the hassle back to them. If you want I can put you onto a good solicitor . Only cost to you is a phone call.


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## Zulu2002 (12 Mar 2014)

Hummm, well a phone call never killed anyone. Thanks.


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## Sunny (12 Mar 2014)

Make a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner. Ulster Bank are breaking the law if they are found to be passing on incorrect information and not correcting it. 

Have you escalated the issue within Ulster Bank? I suggest you contact the Data Protection Manager in the compliance unit. I think they might be based in Belfast but not sure.


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## Gerry Canning (12 Mar 2014)

Zulu2002.
As per Sunny , if you decide to escalate in-house , please ensure you keep copies of all and any correspondance.

I suppose the biggest issue is that our Banks are simply incompetent, maybe that is a good enough excuse.


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## Zulu2002 (17 Apr 2014)

So they finally got their accounts. It transpires that I transferred the money from my account on the 13th. It didn't clear to their "holding account" (an account I knew nothing of) until the 15th. It needed to have cleared on the 14th. The direct debit from the loan account to the holding account was on the 14th, so that payment didn't process. They never attempted to draw the payment again. So as far as they were concerned I never made the payment.

The money stayed in the "holding account" for the duration of the loan. The never notified me that I was in arrears or that I had missed a payment. They listed me with the ICB.

Contrary to what i was promised, they are now saying that they will NOT refund the cost of the back statement I needed to get to prove I made the payment. And contrary to what I was told, I am not due a refund.

I escalated inhouse. And another agent was very sympathetic. She's promised me a refund of the statement. She acknowledges that they made a mistake by not notifying me of arrears and that it's clear I would have assumed the payment was successfully made. She's contacting the ICB team within Ulster Bank to clear my name.

They were also kind enough to suggest that I go to them for my mortgage now that the KBC offer is out of date (due to them dragging their heals). I'm still waiting to hear back from her...


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## Gerry Canning (17 Apr 2014)

Zulu; 

Whoops! Now kind enough to go to Ulster now for Mortgage ,hmn!

If you send me a private message I will give you a good solicitors name , you can tell him your story and then make up your mind.
From wha you say UB,s messing banjaxed your mortgage, that is serious.


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## mojo (20 Apr 2014)

Hello just found this thread.  I had a similar problem with a uk bank Santander.  They listed me on icb incorrectly and I had no idea . It was for a store card I had cancelled and paid in full in 2008 and they listed me in 2011 . I only found out when ptsb who had basically approved mortgage pulled it based on icb 

The good news for me is that I was able to sort it out in 2 weeks in that sandander admitted mistake and removed it from my icb . Broker has gone back to ptsb and says all should go ahead as only problem was icb report . 

I am waiting on this decision but I am not hopeful at all and I am very upset I got so close for sandander to have put me in this position.  

What are my options here is it doesnt go ahead effectively will be there fault should I persue ptsb based on only reason being the icb which I cleared or sandander for defaming me . Thanks mojo.


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## landlord (20 Apr 2014)

I had exactly the same situation with Ulster Bank on an investment mortgage. I was in dispute with Ulster Bank when they changed my interest only mortgage to capital and interest with only 10 days notice!!! While the dispute was taking place I ended up paying the capital and interest payments on the 30th day. I knew if I delayed another day it would have affected my credit rating. It turns out that even though I paid on the 30th day it affected my credit rating anyway. They never notified me about this and after about 10 to 15 phone calls a year later I believe I have it finally sorted this out although I'm still waiting for a new credit report to prove this. Very frustrating considering it was their mistake!!


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## Zulu2002 (22 Apr 2014)

So I've exhausted the complaints escalation process with UB, and I'm taking it to the FSO. One point with their complaint process is that I must specify what compensation I feel is appropriate.

Any ideas how to determine what is appropriate compensation in this instance? (incorrectly listed as bad debtor since 2009; blocked mortgage application,  etc..)


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## Zulu2002 (3 Jun 2014)

It's a long time coming, but last week I got a phone call from UB. From their complaints escalation team. Apparently the agent I'd been dealing with (who was supposed to have sent me out a final position) referred me to them instead of issuing the letter. Anyway, they investigated and have agreed that although they weren't "legally obliged to notify me" of any missed payments at the time, shortly afterwards there was a legal obligation introduced.
In short they don't recognise a mistake on their side, but do recognise that I was very poorly treated, and that I had made a genuine effort to pay on time. 

So they are removing my name from the ICB (via amendment) and offering me €750 in compensation! Jolly good show I'd have thought. Would the FSO penalise them more do you think? Are they running scared, or is this a genuine offer?


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## Palerider (3 Jun 2014)

Good result, very fair well done for following through.


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