# Sister cannot pay mortgage no solutions whatsoever from Ulsterbank.



## MC D (22 Dec 2014)

Don't know where to go so as a last resort decided to post here . My Sister has a mortgage with Ulster bank since 2006 . Orignally She borrowed €144k to purchase an investment property the amount outstanding now stands at €132k and the property is worth approximately €65k.  SHe has never missed a payment however since November 2013  She has been repaying reduced payment as the house has not been rented out (the house has not been rented for 3 years) and her monthly income is only 1200 per month.
The interest rate been charged on the mortgage is 4.5% and interest is accrueing at approximately €400 per month. She has asked Ulster bank could they reduce the interest that she paying at the moment , stop the interest or split the mortgage anything at all to help her. She has completed her statement of means on at least 3 occassions and She has no money whatsover to repay the mortgage the Ulster bank admit to this. As a result the house is on the market and she will be liable to the shortfall however she has no money to pay any shortfall . She has found Ulsterbank unhelpfull throughout the whole process.She has no other property or assets  Has she any options available to her at all ?


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2014)

Where is she living? 

How much is she paying per month? 

Ulster Bank will probably do a deal with her on the shortfall after the sale. But it might be better to try for a deal beforehand. If they refuse to deal with her, then should consider a PIA or bankruptcy.

Brendan


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## MC D (22 Dec 2014)

Hi Brendan thanks for getting back to me . She is living in rented accomadation the investment property is 150 miles from where she is living . At the moment she is repaying 100 per month which we are giving to her. She has been told that the shortfall will be giving to a 3rd party with whom she will have to deal with. Before Ulsterbank can proceed with any sale of the property they have required 
1) Hand  Written Standard Financial Statement 
2) Hand  Written Permission for Ulster Bank to carry out an Independent Valuation of the  property. 
3) Written  proposal for shortfall remaining. 
4) Letter on Solicitors headed paper confirming Net Sale Proceeds to  Ulster Bank after all expenses / fees taken form sale.
5) 3 month up  to date bank statements , 3 pay  slips,  and also a statement of  affairs of all property portfolio if applicable.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2014)

Has she spoken to a Personal Insolvency Practitioner? 

This seems like a good case for it. 

She should do it now while her income is low. The PIP might propose selling the house and writing off the shortfall or settling it within a very short term.

Brendan


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## MC D (22 Dec 2014)

No brendan she hasn't . Her income is likely to remain low for a considerable time . To tell you the truth she had hoped that ulster bank would come up with some workable solution for e.g reduced interest even for a couple of years in the hope that property prices might  increase however they have offered no solutuion whatsoever oh sorry i lie she was asked would she consider moving to the house which is 150 miles from where she works. How much on average would a pip charge ?


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## odyssey06 (22 Dec 2014)

If the property hasn't seen any upswing in price (I'm assuming that is the case if its still priced at half its purchase amount), or potential in renting, over the last 3 years... I wouldn't hold out much hope for it in the short to medium future, sorry to say.


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## MC D (22 Dec 2014)

Hard to believe but they were worth even less odyssey06. In 2011 a similiar property in the same village was sold in an Allsops Auction for 40K


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## odyssey06 (22 Dec 2014)

empty wallet said:


> Hard to believe but they were worth even less odyssey06. In 2011 a similiar property in the same village was sold in an Allsops Auction for 40K



Ouch. I thought most places were back to 60-70% of the peak price...


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## MC D (22 Dec 2014)

Thanks for your comments Jimboy . Yes it has been very stressfull for my sister and has affected her health that's why I have stepped in to try and help her. The house hasn't been rented for 2 reasons 1) People are now renting in a bigger town close by where rents have dropped and 2) The last couple of tenants completely wrecked the house which meant it cost as much to repair as if it was left empty so after those experiences it is just not worth the risk. It's not like she is a strategic defaulter she is a genuine person in serious financial difficulty yes it was her choice to borrow the money however ulsterbank had no difficulty giving her a mortgage 14 times her income knowing that it was for a rental property and that if the house was not rented there was no possibility of her been able to keep up the repayments.


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## MC D (7 May 2015)

Well just an update on my sisters case. We went to a pip for 1/2 an hour he took €180 off my sister and he did nothing for her as I have ended up dealing with ulster bank on my sisters behalf. As my sister could not afford the mortgage she decided to go for a voluntary sale of the house. An offer came in for the house for €66k which after waiting for 4 weeks for the bank to decide whether they would accept this offer as we had to wait for the credit committee to make their decision ,they gave the go ahead for the sale of the property . Meanwhile the proposed purchaser (probably sick of waiting )  pulled out of the deal So now my sisters case is in limbo. Cabot are dealing with her account now however the sale of the house has not gone through . Don't know what to do now ? Don't know whether cabot have the total loan or whether interest is accruing. Also just wondering in the letter which my sister received from cabot it stated that" owing to the fact that you will remain liable for the shortfall and until such time as the shortfall is discharged in full the bank will only be releasing the property which is held as security in respect of the mortgage by way of deed of discharge/release and it will not be vacating the mortgage deed " can anyone explain this to me.


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## thedaddyman (8 May 2015)

Maybe I am missing something here  but why did she buy an investment property that she has not rented out for 3 years. Is the house in some location that it is unlikely to ever be rented?


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## 44brendan (8 May 2015)

MC D said:


> Well just an update on my sisters case. We went to a pip for 1/2 an hour he took €180 off my sister and he did nothing for her as I have ended up dealing with ulster bank on my sisters behalf. As my sister could not afford the mortgage she decided to go for a voluntary sale of the house. An offer came in for the house for €66k which after waiting for 4 weeks for the bank to decide whether they would accept this offer as we had to wait for the credit committee to make their decision ,they gave the go ahead for the sale of the property . Meanwhile the proposed purchaser (probably sick of waiting ) pulled out of the deal So now my sisters case is in limbo. Cabot are dealing with her account now however the sale of the house has not gone through . Don't know what to do now ? Don't know whether cabot have the total loan or whether interest is accruing. Also just wondering in the letter which my sister received from cabot it stated that" owing to the fact that you will remain liable for the shortfall and until such time as the shortfall is discharged in full the bank will only be releasing the property which is held as security in respect of the mortgage by way of deed of discharge/release and it will not be vacating the mortgage deed " can anyone explain this to me.


Not unique. I have come across a number of situations where PIP's have charged relatively high fees to give "advice" that could have been freely obtained on this forum. There are good PIPs out there but I would be wary of some of them who tend to offer somewhat stupid advice at times. I.e. I had a client come back to our bank recently with a demand that his mortgage be changed to interest only repayments. He had been meeting an acceptable level of P&I repayments based on his SFS. He stated that his PIP told him that this offer was acceptable to the bank. It took some time to persuade him that as his SFS disclosed an ability to pay considerably higher level than IO he would need to meet the higher payment or be excluded from MARP and ultimately risk losing his property!
Undoubtedly your sister is carrying a heavy burden here but she needs to realize that UB cannot make her pay what she cannot afford. She does not need a PIP at this point unless she has an ability to offer a regular payment to UB. However, no payment should be made unless it is part of a F&FS proposal. Otherwise the money is going down a black hole. You can continue to deal with the Bank. First of all you need to issue a complaint that a purchaser was lost due to procrastination in making a decision. This should be sent directly to the customer complaints section of the bank. Then on the assumption that an overview of your sisters financial position would disclose no ability to meet regular payments, offer to assist in the voluntary sale of the property in full settlement of the outstanding balance. If they refuse let them make the next move. no point in making any payments until you can get a final settlement deal.


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## hubble (9 May 2015)

I suggest that you write a letter to UB to the effect that your sister will agree to the voluntary surrender subject to UB foregoing the shortfall on the basis of her inability to pay.  If they don't accept this offer then don't waste your energy further.


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## Waver (11 May 2015)

Is there a reason she cannot go for bankruptcy in Ireland?


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## MC D (27 Oct 2015)

An update on my sisters case. The house still hasn't been sold, a deposit has been paid, contracts have been sent to potential purchasers gathering all paperwork like nppr, lpt, water charges ect hoping that they would signed in the next few days,low and behold today we find out today that the estate which my sisters house is built on is not connected to the main sewage (the purchasers were looking for clarification that it was) we assumed it was however it turns out that it's not and there appears to be issues with the current set up. I can't imagine anyone wanting to purchase the house now. It s just making the situation even worse if that was possible :-( we had always assumed it was, I even checked back on the original valuation which the bank had carried out by their auctioneer and they had ticked that it was on the main sewage system.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Oct 2015)

Your sister is effectively insolvent. 

She should stop paying anything to Ulster Bank. 
 She should agree to hand back the property to them. 

They should write off the shortfall. If they don't, then just ignore them. 

Or go for bankruptcy. 

That is what the new insolvency legislation was designed for.

Brendan


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## Bronte (28 Oct 2015)

Where is the sewrage going?  Is it a septic tank?  I hope MC D that you've stopped the fruitless exercise of loaning your sister the 100 Euro.


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