# Insulation Cost



## markm030 (30 Dec 2011)

hi, just bought a 1970's property, 4 bedroom detached, 156m2. BER is E1.
Property badly needs insulation.
We will be getting quotes but just looking for a ball park figure to insulate the walls and attic. Is there still a grant available?
Internal vs External? House currently has external tiles so not sure if external is a runner. 
Internal seems a lot messier but I heard it was cheaper. 

We have a budget to do some extensive home improvements to improve energy in the house including possible new gas boiler. BER states it is less than 70% efficient and house needs new doors, front doors and internal doors.
We also need to furnish the house as we are moving from an apartment that we are renting out so most of the furniture will remain in place.

Anyway approx guide price for the above energy improvements would be a useful heads up so we are knowing what we are facing and can budget accordingly. Thanks


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## serotoninsid (30 Dec 2011)

markm030 said:


> Property badly needs insulation.
> We will be getting quotes but just looking for a ball park figure to insulate the walls and attic. Is there still a grant available?


Yes, check here for details.


markm030 said:


> Internal vs External? House currently has external tiles so not sure if external is a runner.


What do you mean by external tiles exactly?  Also, if you plan on swapping out the windows, it makes your decision to go for external easier.


			
				markm030 said:
			
		

> Internal seems a lot messier but I heard it was cheaper.


Do you mean internal - as in cavity wall?....or do you mean drylining?  If the latter, be aware that it will leave you with a substancial reduction in floor m2 area.


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## lowCO2design (30 Dec 2011)

take a look at [broken link removed] from the SEAI and consider getting some professional help (arch or arch tech with BER experience)to prepare your wish list and organise prices

external insulation is a far better solution, consider window replacement and their locations when doing this, also budget for air-tightness measures and consider mechanical ventilation options.


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## picorette (31 Dec 2011)

I would always recommend external insulation if possible, wrapping your house in a big blanket, while retaining the use of the masonry walls as a thermal store. It currently attracts a €3600 grant for detached houses.

It should be the first consideration in any house refurbishment, along with 300mm of attic insulation. Then, you should look at windows & doors, air tightness & ventilation. Proper attention to these can give you a home with substantially reduced heating requirements.*


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## markm030 (3 Jan 2012)

There are wall tiles on the external walls therefore i would assume it would make it harder to do external insulation. The windows are already double glazed but looking at seeing what triple glazed would cost.
we are looking at probably dry lining as i hear cavity wall insulation is not great. I know internal insulation can reduce your wall room area but it would be just the external walls that would be getting it so I wouln't think it would make any major difference.
External wall insulation is very expensive so have a feeling once we get builders to quote it won't be a runner


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## lowCO2design (3 Jan 2012)

markm030 said:


> There are wall tiles on the external walls therefore i would assume it would make it harder to do external insulation.


 this is a 70's house? so the tiles aren't worth anything? so, hack of the tiles, pump the cavity and get a German EWI system manufacturer, where they give their product guarantee and are recommending the installer 





> The windows are already double glazed but looking at seeing what triple glazed would cost.


 well I would recommend you this, when doing the EWI and get an arch with passive house experience to do the details, its the way these windows are fitted is the important thing- also you must consider your whole house ventilation strategy, most 70's homes don't have wall vents - and imo there is no point in putting permavents in triple glazed windows..





> we are looking at probably dry lining as i hear cavity wall insulation is not great.


whoever is advising you is full of Sh... who told you that about the cavity??? 
dry-lining is an option but you have more disruption, a less complete job, more thermal bridging,  increased risk of interstitial condensation, and you can never hang anything off your walls. if you have the required space as per the cavity wall insulation IAB cert then pump the caivty first before considering anything else. your clearly looking at a BER report, while these help to focus peoples minds to energy conservation they are a generic report filled out by some one who does a weeks course. 





> I know internal insulation can reduce your wall room area but it would be just the external walls that would be getting it so I wouln't think it would make any major difference.


 to what, your taking about space? if thats your only concern, away you go, I would be more interested in my long term comfort in the home and would be trying to achieve a complete envelope insulation wrap which includes air-tightness measures 





> External wall insulation is very expensive so have a feeling once we get builders to quote it won't be a runner


if thats the case fair enough, its expensive and unfortunately many of the cheaper quotes should be avoided. I appreciate why your going with drylining as regards costs, but dont presume it will be as good a job as EWI and if you havent the money for EWI then you don't have the money for good quality triple glazing either..


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## markm030 (3 Jan 2012)

lowCO2design said:


> this is a 70's house? so the tiles aren't worth anything? so, hack of the tiles, pump the cavity and get a German EWI system manufacturer, where they give their product guarantee and are recommending the installer well I would recommend you this, when doing the EWI and get an arch with passive house experience to do the details, its the way these windows are fitted is the important thing- also you must consider your whole house ventilation strategy, most 70's homes don't have wall vents - and imo there is no point in putting permavents in triple glazed windows..whoever is advising you is full of Sh... who told you that about the cavity???
> dry-lining is an option but you have more disruption, a less complete job, more thermal bridging, increased risk of interstitial condensation, and you can never hang anything off your walls. if you have the required space as per the cavity wall insulation IAB cert then pump the caivty first before considering anything else. your clearly looking at a BER report, while these help to focus peoples minds to energy conservation they are a generic report filled out by some one who does a weeks course. to what, your taking about space? if thats your only concern, away you go, I would be more interested in my long term comfort in the home and would be trying to achieve a complete envelope insulation wrap which includes air-tightness measures if thats the case fair enough, its expensive and unfortunately many of the cheaper quotes should be avoided. I appreciate why your going with drylining as regards costs, but dont presume it will be as good a job as EWI and if you havent the money for EWI then you don't have the money for good quality triple glazing either..


 
Thanks for the comments, I am a novice at insulation as you can imagine but thanks for the advice.
The tiles on the house are old and yes would not be worth much. We would need new ones however to keep in line with neighbours houses.

External wall insulation seems to be the better way I understand that from reading into it but yes it will come down to cost and what feasibly can be done. The house needs to be redecorated completely inside and out so don't mind the disruption.
We do also want to do some internal painting and decoarating and other jobs like internal and external doors also. 

Is it possible to do cavity wall insulation only? Who can determine if it is possible or not. We have 4 builders who install insulation systems coming to give us quotes over the weekend coming so just waiting for advice.


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## serotoninsid (4 Jan 2012)

Given your budgetary concerns, why not stick with ...

A. Cavity fill insulation (as it's money well spent relative to the outcome).

and 


B.  Look at Airtightness - get airtightness test carried out - and then work on sealing up where the house is 'leaky'.


I don't think it was touched on above - but do you have a fireplace/open fire?  If so, have a stove fitted.  Open fire is 30% efficient whereas a stove should be 70% (or there abouts).  Furthermore, even if your not using the stove, your blocking up a big outlet in your home - where your central heating escapes.

In relation to moving from double to triple glaze, if some of the other measures mentioned don't appeal due to prohibitive costs, it's going to be hard to justify pulling out double glazed and replacing - without considering a raft of other measures first.


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## lowCO2design (4 Jan 2012)

markm030 said:


> Is it possible to do cavity wall insulation only? Who can determine if it is possible or not.


most seai installers will be able to do so, when they call, ask for references, but also ask for a copy of the IAB certification and you will be able to assess what is required and should be installed from there. also see [broken link removed] (look at both the homeowner and from the installers perspective for some insight and pointers). you will be eligible for a grant but would have to include one other upgrading element so maybe stick 400mm of insulation in the attic space if this is not done already. 

+ 1 on  serotoninsid re air-tightness test and remedial measure for air-tightness BEFORE redecorating! but also ensure that you have the correct amount of permanent background ventilation in each room.


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