# RTÉ - TV licence



## Dinarius (24 Jan 2021)

We gave up Sky about two years ago. Since then, we have the handful of channels which you can still receive via the Sky box and dish, in addition to Netflix, for which we pay €11.99 p/m.

Via a combination of very good WiFi, an iPad and a Google dongle, we receive perfect Netflix and YouTube on our television through their apps.

Via exactly the same technical combination, we stream RTE television to our tv using their “app” at a quality level that could best be described as execrable.

Despite the fact the most people are viewing RTE via cable or free-view, and despite the fact that the bandwidth demands on streaming RTÉ would be minuscule compared with Netflix or YouTube, the streamed signal is unwatchable.

Is the RTÉ app a mere fig leaf which then allows them to demand I pay a licence fee because they meet some legal requirement in terms of being seen to provide a service?

I have no interest in Saorview. I don’t want yet another box and aerial. I would simply like it that RTÉ allow me to tune in their stations via my Sky box (which I can do for dozens of other channels) or they provide an app (rather than their current transition year project offering) on a par with the others I’ve mentioned which allows me to stream their service.

For this, I will happily pay for a licence. But, without either of these, I will pay no more.

D.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> Is the RTÉ app a mere fig leaf which then allows them to demand I pay a licence fee because they meet some legal requirement in terms of being seen to provide a service?


You would have to wonder.

IIRC RTÉ Player launched in 2009.


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## Dinarius (24 Jan 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You would have to wonder.
> 
> IIRC RTÉ Player launched in 2009.



Thanks.

I didn’t realise it was that old. Makes it even more of a joke.

D.


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## SparkRite (24 Jan 2021)

Hi @Dinarius , I've read and re-read your post and I'm not sure what your asking, if indeed you are asking anything.
Are you just informing us of your televisual viewing methods, giving out about RTE, trying to justify why you're not buying a TV licence  or maybe just having a rant?

PS.:- Anyway, for what it's worth I also think that the 'RTE Player' is absolute rubbish and is barely fit for purpose.


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## mathepac (24 Jan 2021)

The same old arguments trotted out all over again; "RTE is rubbish, why should I pay a licence fee?" And the answer is the same as it has always been; "Unlike the BBC in the UK, RTE does not collect a licence fee. The annual TV licence fee is collected by An Post on behalf of the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (or whatever they're called this week) The Broadcasting Act 2009 and other laws set out the legislation relating to Television Licences and your need to have one, even if you never watch RTE. The licence is to use a TV reception device in Ireland."

Feel free to consult multiple other threads on the same topic posted over the years.


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## Dinarius (24 Jan 2021)

SparkRite said:


> Hi @Dinarius , I've read and re-read your post and I'm not sure what your asking, if indeed you are asking anything.
> Are you just informing us of your televisual viewing methods, giving out about RTE, trying to justify why you're not buying a TV licence  or maybe just having a rant?
> 
> PS.:- Anyway, for what it's worth I also think that the 'RTE Player' is absolute rubbish and is barely fit for purpose.



Sorry, I thought it was obvious. The legal fig leaf that is the RTE Player app appears to force me to pay for a tv licence.

Without the app, someone with my setup (no Sky or Virgin sub, and no Saorview box) would have no access to RTÉ.

Given that the app fails utterly, can I be made to pay for a service I cannot avail of?

D.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> Given that the app fails utterly, can I be made to pay for a service I cannot avail of?


Yes. It's the law.


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## Dinarius (24 Jan 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Yes. It's the law.



Thanks for clarifying that.

How very, very Irish.

D


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> How very, very Irish.



It exists in the UK and Germany (perhaps more places).


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## Jim2007 (24 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> .
> How very, very Irish.



Why do you feel it necessary to degrade your country, when in fact it is pretty much the same requirement throughout Europe and you'd you know this if you took the time to do a little research???

And rightly so.  The last think we need is to have nothing to rely on but the Fox News and Murdock press.


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## Dinarius (24 Jan 2021)

The debate here has zip to do with access to information. 
It has to do with a public broadcaster funding model and its failure to deliver.
Please, do not put words in my mouth.
Anyone who has used BBC Sounds, for example, knows that it works flawlessly.
The RTÉ app does not. That is ALL I am talking about.
D.


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## AndroidMan (24 Jan 2021)

Jim2007 said:


> Why do you feel it necessary to degrade your country, when in fact it is pretty much the same requirement throughout Europe



At least we dont have to pay for water unlike those countries ;-)


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## SparkRite (24 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> The legal fig leaf that is the RTE Player app appears to force me to pay for a tv licence.


Not true, nothing to do with the app. Remember it's not an RTÉ licence.



Dinarius said:


> I have no interest in Saorview. I don’t want yet another box and aerial. I would simply like it that RTÉ allow me to tune in their stations via my Sky box


RTÉ is part of the Saorview platform, in fact 6 of the 11 TV channels are from RTÉ, so you do have an interest in it, Saorview can be received by most modern TVs. and often by the use of a small indoor aerial.


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## deanpark (24 Jan 2021)

A few other things. 

On BBC radio via Freesat the music tracks are listed on the screen as they appear on shows - RTE can't manage this on saorview.  Its just lazy by rte.

Where is a decent catch up service for RTE radio   - e.g. 2XM programmes aren't available and indeed aren,t easy to listen to live via a smartphone.    Presume its non existent or patchy for the rest of the RTE radio channels.   Why don't RTE just go and speak to BBC and see how they can replicate a proven tool such as BBC Player.

It reminds me of the water charge in Scotland which is just lobbed on to the household Community Charge as a fixed charge. Why didnt Irish govt not just do this (put fixed water charge on to Property Tax) and avoid Irish Water fiasco.  The UK has its faults but we could use their good ideas instead of concocting  inferior home grown approaches where a proven workable solution is available.


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## Leo (25 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> I would simply like it that RTÉ allow me to tune in their stations via my Sky box (which I can do for dozens of other channels)



This is nothing to do with RTE, Sky just allow what UK legislation says they must without a current subscription.


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## Dinarius (25 Jan 2021)

The point made further up about the need for truth in an era of Fox News and the like is pertinent. It highlights the need for maximum and uninhibited access to the likes of RTE. All the more reason that their app should work as expected.

D.


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## Páid (25 Jan 2021)

Dinarius said:


> Sorry, I thought it was obvious. The legal fig leaf that is the RTE Player app appears to force me to pay for a tv licence.


It has nothing to do with the RTE app. Your TV is a device capable of receiving a TV signal so you must pay a licence. 



Dinarius said:


> The point made further up about the need for truth in an era of Fox News and the like is pertinent. It highlights the need for maximum and uninhibited access to the likes of RTE. All the more reason that their app should work as expected.
> D.


SAORVIEW is available to everyone for free. Your TV probably already supports it (given that it is a smart TV capable of running an app). Just because you won't purchase a combi box or an aerial doesn't mean that it is not widely available.


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## meepman (25 Jan 2021)

Similar discussions appear In the UK about the BBC.  At the end of the day, if you get rid of the national broadcaster then who will do all the state TV/radio footage. The only competitor is Virgin media and they  don't  have the infrastructure to compete.

Saying that, the RTE app is very bad and they should have outsourced it instead of designing it  inhouse.

And RTE's business model needs a refresh


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## Páid (25 Jan 2021)

The app itself is fine but some people have issues with the quality of the stream and the number of ads. 

In any event it might serve a better purpose if people complained to RTE directly.


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## Steven Barrett (25 Jan 2021)

If you have a tv, you have to pay a tv licence. If you would prefer not to pay it, sell your tv and buy a monitor. 

The RTE app or RTE at all doesn't come into it.


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## Baby boomer (26 Jan 2021)

Páid said:


> The app itself is fine but some people have issues with the quality of the stream and the number of ads.


It's far from fine.  It's dreadful.  Slow, buggy, slow, frequent crashes, slow, unintuitive interface.  And did I mention it's slow?  
That's my experience of the Android version.  The version for my 2017 vintage LG Smart TV just doesn't work anymore and is unsupported.


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## MrEarl (26 Jan 2021)

Páid said:


> It has nothing to do with the RTE app. Your TV is a device capable of receiving a TV signal so you must pay a licence.



Hello,

Wasnt there mention of updating the law, so as to compel those watching on a monitor, mobile phone etc. to have to pay the licence fee, and not just those with a tuner in their TV, or Saoirview box?

As for the RTE Player, I think the quality of picture is very poor. In fact, I think that it's a very poor offering in general, it's slow, offers limited functionality etc.

Perhaps RTE should stop paying their Top 10 earners, €3m per year, and invest it in upgrading the RTE Player, instead? 

RTE needs a radical overhaul, IMHO.

I personally don't thnk that it's fit for purpose, and certainty don't see a need for some of its radio stations, or the repeat broadcast of UK and US TV shows etc. That's not what I want from my public service broadcaster, in this era.


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## joer (26 Jan 2021)

I agree with you Mr Earl, 
The quality of programmes has dis-improved very much so in recent years and yes if they stopped paying silly money to the chosen few, who do not deserve such money, they might be able to buy some decent programmes..


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## Páid (26 Jan 2021)

Baby boomer said:


> It's far from fine.  It's dreadful.  Slow, buggy, slow, frequent crashes, slow, unintuitive interface.  And did I mention it's slow?
> That's my experience of the Android version.  The version for my 2017 vintage LG Smart TV just doesn't work anymore and is unsupported.


It's actually built on a very mature streaming platform. The only thing I find annoying about it are the multiple ads. I have it running on an Android phone, Fire tablet and a modern LG TV (two years old). I have good quality broadband and don't have an issue with streaming. The app itself is designed to run on many platforms (which means most people have access to it) and it's simple and straightforward to use.

May parents have a very old Samsung TV (one of the first smart tvs) and I managed to get the app working on it. It's more a reflection on LG than RTE. 



MrEarl said:


> Wasnt there mention of updating the law, so as to compel those watching on a monitor, mobile phone etc. to have to pay the licence fee, and not just those with a tuner in their TV, or Saoirview box?


There may have been but the OP has a TV capable of receiving a TV signal and is also using a Sky box to do so.

@Baby boomer @MrEarl @joer  Have any of you complained to RTE about it?


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## Sadim (26 Jan 2021)

joer said:


> I agree with you Mr Earl,
> The quality of programmes has dis-improved very much so in recent years and yes if they stopped paying silly money to the chosen few, who do not deserve such money, they might be able to buy some decent programmes..



Quality? When RTE's idea of public service broadcasting amounts to Eastenders, Dancing with Stars or whatever it is very difficult to defend them. The one thing they were good at, sport, and they more or less gave it up. Personally, I only watch the News and Nationwide on RTE


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## Páid (26 Jan 2021)

That's not true. There are hundreds of programmes from all types of genre available here and a lot of them are home produced - https://www.rte.ie/player/all-programmes/a-z


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## Leo (26 Jan 2021)

Sadim said:


> hen RTE's idea of public service broadcasting amounts to Eastenders, Dancing with Stars or whatever it is very difficult to defend them.



I hate those programs, but with the ratings numbers they get. it's hard to argue that RTE aren't giving the people what they want. In the 5 day Christmas period, there were 95,000 streams of Eastenders on the app alone!


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## Sadim (26 Jan 2021)

Leo said:


> I hate those programs, but with the ratings numbers they get. it's hard to argue that RTE aren't giving the people what they want. In the 5 day Christmas period, there were 95,000 streams of Eastenders on the app alone!



I know your pain, I am that soldier! It just galls me that a so-called public service broadcaster puts out such tosh. Yes, I get the commercial appeal for running the same tosh but I find it very hard to watch anything on RTE apart from the News, Nationwide and the odd PrimeTime Investigates which are well produced and presented.


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## Leo (26 Jan 2021)

MrEarl said:


> Wasnt there mention of updating the law, so as to compel those watching on a monitor, mobile phone etc. to have to pay the licence fee, and not just those with a tuner in their TV, or Saoirview box?



The introduction date for a household charge has been pushed out a few times since 2015, last I heard it's coming in 2024 in the form of a device independent broadcasting charge.


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## MrEarl (26 Jan 2021)

Páid said:


> It's actually built on a very mature streaming platform. The only thing I find annoying about it are the multiple ads. I have it running on an Android phone, Fire tablet and a modern LG TV (two years old). I have good quality broadband and don't have an issue with streaming. The app itself is designed to run on many platforms (which means most people have access to it) and it's simple and straightforward to use.
> 
> May parents have a very old Samsung TV (one of the first smart tvs) and I managed to get the app working on it. It's more a reflection on LG than RTE.
> 
> ...



Correct, but if the legislation was never changed, then I think those with monitors (without TV tuner /receivers), watching RTE via an app for example, seem to have been able to avoid paying the TV licence fee.



Páid said:


> @Baby boomer @MrEarl @joer  Have any of you complained to RTE about it?



Yes, I have.

I was fobbed off.... So I have since raised my concerns about RTE, with my local politicans, and will press them to seek change, through legislation etc. I would encourage everyone else to do the same, as its our broadcaster!


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## ATC110 (26 Jan 2021)

I don't have a television and the licence inspector has called a couple of times. He had also inspected one of my neighbours who has a satellite dish, decoder and large monitor but does require a licence.
The Irish legislation is outdated unlike the UK where if you're viewing BBC content on any device you a licence is required


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## ATC110 (26 Jan 2021)

A broadcasting charge was extremely politically sensitive considering its universal impact. 
In 2013 Minister for Communications Pat Rabbite's ''We don't have cavemen here' comment resulted in it being dropped.
However, it'd probably be easier to introduce now considering how we've conditioned in to being mindlessly compliant with state laws for the last year.


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## SparkRite (26 Jan 2021)

ATC110 said:


> He had also inspected one of my neighbours who has a satellite dish, decoder and large monitor but does require a licence.



This setup does require a TV licence. See below from https://www.citizensinformation.ie   :-

_"If you have a TV, or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (using an aerial, satellite dish, cable or other means), you must have a TV licence. "_


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## ATC110 (26 Jan 2021)

SparkRite said:


> This setup does require a TV licence. See below from https://www.citizensinformation.ie   :-
> 
> _"If you have a TV, or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (using an aerial, satellite dish, cable or other means), you must have a TV licence. "_



That's what I thought too but whatever way it's configured it does not meet the statutory requirement


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## Baby boomer (26 Jan 2021)

Páid said:


> That's not true. There are hundreds of programmes from all types of genre available here and a lot of them are home produced - https://www.rte.ie/player/all-programmes/a-z


Right, let's see what's in some of those genres then.  Sport, for example.  Surely that's an open goal.  Must be thousands of matches of all sorts available, not to mention sports documentaries and news roundups from Gaa, rugby, soccer and many others.  The hardest bit, you'd think, would be wading through the huge selection to find the one you want.  But never fear, RTE has solved that problem for you!   The sport genre has, count 'em, FIVE programmes available to watch.  Yes, five whole programmes.  One Laochra Gael, a cycling program, a showjumping event, a documentary about a young lad who meets Davy Fitzgerald and something called Zozimus.  Zozimus?  No, I don't know either and I didn't really feel like investing 90 seconds hoping it might load.

Ok, let's try science and nature.  Ah, things are improving.  SEVEN programs to choose from.  Oh wait, one is the farming weather forecast.  Ah well, six isn't bad I suppose.  Except all six are John Creedon pottering around Ireland and being, well, John Creedon.  John bloody Creedon.   Is this seriously RTE's best science offering?  A scientist he ain't.  

Need I go on?   This drivel is an insult to viewers and licence payers.


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## Leo (27 Jan 2021)

ATC110 said:


> However, it'd probably be easier to introduce now considering how we've conditioned in to being mindlessly compliant with state laws for the last year.



Surely all the evidence from this year would suggest the opposite!


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## Páid (27 Jan 2021)

Sport is licenced so they cannot show something they didn't broadcast. They have all sporting events broadcast within the last seven days which is in line with what the other providers do. There is a lot more available than five - https://www.rte.ie/player/all-programmes/category/Sport/Sport_All Sport

And science and nature has much more than seven - https://www.rte.ie/player/all-programmes/category/Science & Nature


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## mathepac (27 Jan 2021)

Baby boomer said:


> Need I go on? This drivel is an insult to viewers and licence payers.


Nah, it's only an insult to licence payers, you can't insult free-loaders.


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## Miseméféin (4 Feb 2021)

I've had a lot of issues with RTE player, particularly videos stopping to load over and over again. This has improved a lot since I discovered the settings cog in the corner of the screen, where I can adjust the quality of the program being streamed from HD to non-HD to different qualities. By reducing the so called quality by two or 3 steps, the actual quality becomes significantly better.

It is annoying that I have to do this every time but it really makes the site usable for me which is a big improvement. I don't know if you can do this for live streams or for all device types but it might be worth seeing if this works for you if you are having trouble.

I would also suggest that we are not comparing like with like when looking at our national broadcasters' internet offerings to that of the UK. This is because:

1. In the UK they can charge a household the TV licence for merely streaming their broadcasts, no matter what type of device is used. Whereas here you only get charged when you have a TV set in the household.

This, I would think, reduces the incentive to invest in the internet offering in Ireland as it doesn't necessarily serve the TV licence paying residents as much as non-TV licence paying residents. - I know the original poster is an exception to this theory so I would be interested to know how many TV licence holders only stream online vs how many that stream online do not pay a TV licence. -

It also reduces the amount of people required to pay the TV licence in Ireland in comparison with the setup in the UK.

2. We are comparing a service in a place with 66 or 67 million people to that in a place with approximately 5 million people. That is a vastly different amount of tv licence income to be invested.


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## Leo (5 Feb 2021)

Miseméféin said:


> 1. In the UK they can charge a household the TV licence for merely streaming their broadcasts, no matter what type of device is used. Whereas here you only get charged when you have a TV set in the household.



Plus - TV licence UK: £157.50, Ireland: €160. Number of UK households ~28 million, Ireland: 1.7 million


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