# Phonewatch says I am in a new 12 month contract as I didn't cancel the last one



## beldin (7 Jun 2016)

Has anyone actually cancelled with Phonewatch.
We had a letter in March about a price increase and that if there was no cancellation in 30days that we would be in a new 12month contract. We didn't get around to acting on it and then changed in May to another provider. Now phonewatch are saying we are in a 12 month contract as we didn't respond in time. In effect they could have put 24, 36 or even more months in the letter. Any idea is there any validity in their claim.


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## Páid (7 Jun 2016)

Silence as acceptance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felthouse_v_Bindley

How are they to know you received the letter in the first place? And even if you did, that you read it?


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## trasneoir (7 Jun 2016)

beldin said:


> We had a letter in March about a price increase and that if there was no cancellation in 30days that we would be in a new 12month contract. We didn't get around to acting on it and then changed in May to another provider. Now phonewatch are saying we are in a 12 month contract as we didn't respond in time. In effect they could have put 24, 36 or even more months in the letter. Any idea is there any validity in their claim.


I'd be surprised. If this were legal, every utility provider in the country would be at it.
Unless this is spelled out explicitly in your original agreement, I'd just cancel the direct debit, tell them you've done so, and then forget about it.

Do utility providers like phonewatch talk to the ICB?


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## demoivre (7 Jun 2016)

trasneoir said:


> Do utility providers like phonewatch talk to the ICB?



No they aren't members of the ICB.


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## Leo (7 Jun 2016)

As Trasneoir says, check your original agreement, confirm you're not on 12 month rolling contracts.

If not, kick up a fuss and they'll back down.


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## Ken Adams (30 Aug 2016)

Hey, what was the outcome of this? am in a similar situation myself. Went to cancel last week and they tell me oh you've continued payment so you're in a new contract since June, told them i'd just cancel direct debit but would love to know how you got on first.


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## Leo (5 Sep 2016)

Ken Adams said:


> Hey yes have the original contract alright



Does this state that it's a rolling contract, and what are the cancellation T&Cs?


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## Ken Adams (6 Sep 2016)

they said it would be passed over to a debt collection agency, that's why i was wondering how the original poster got on


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## demoivre (6 Sep 2016)

Ken Adams said:


> they said it would be passed over to a debt collection agency, that's why i was wondering how the original poster got on



And the collector will do nothing other than chase you with a few letters and calls.


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## Leo (6 Sep 2016)

And the debt will continue to mount until such time as you fulfill the contracted cancellation requirements.


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## Cmurph (7 Oct 2016)

In the same boat.
Cancelled my agreement as I was unhappy with the cost. This was 3.3 years since I signed up (when I moved into house).
I got a letter highlighting small print from my May invoice.
"Payment confirms commitment to a further 12 month contract. To view latest T and C ...."

I find this completely objectionable.
I now have a debt collection agency chasing me. What other service rolls contracts in this way? 
Seems very underhand to me or am I naive.

C


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## Aoneill13 (7 Oct 2016)

Cmurph said:


> In the same boat.
> Cancelled my agreement as I was unhappy with the cost. This was 3.3 years since I signed up (when I moved into house).
> I got a letter highlighting small print from my May invoice.
> "Payment confirms commitment to a further 12 month contract. To view latest T and C ...."
> ...


I tried to cancel when they put up my monthly subscription- the guy in the phone was extremely rude. They reduced the payment but I never agreed to it. When I rang again to cancel I was told someone would ring me which never happened so I emailed to say I was leaving and cancelled my DD.  Now they keep sending me letters saying I owe the 12 months and threatening me with debt collectors. I am disgusted at their money grabbing attitude.


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## Leo (8 Oct 2016)

Cmurph said:


> I got a letter highlighting small print from my May invoice.
> "Payment confirms commitment to a further 12 month contract. To view latest T and C ...."



Ask them to provide proof of where you agreed to these rolling contracts when you first signed up. They can't enforce new terms like that hidden in small print at a later point.


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## Dewdropdeb (10 Oct 2016)

Curious if this was ever resolved, I now find myself in the same boat. Like insurance policies send you renewal notices and say if you don't contact they will assume you have renewed, but this is very clearly stipulated. I just got this price increase letter, I even rang about it because I was annoyed at prices going up and I was told it was because my contract ended. I presumed that meant I was on a month to month rolling thing, but now am told I'm in contract until April!? Underhanded and ridiculous. Surely a contract would require either written or verbal agreement to be binding?


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## Leo (10 Oct 2016)

Dewdropdeb said:


> Surely a contract would require either written or verbal agreement to be binding?



Did your original contract allow for rolling renewals? These are quite common when paying monthly by direct debit.


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## Dewdropdeb (10 Oct 2016)

Well, original terms has the following:
_13.2 If We revise these Terms under clause 13.1, We will give You at least 30 day’s written notice of any changes to these Terms before they take effect. In the case of an increase in the Charges or a material change to the scope of the Service to Your detriment, You will then have a period of 30 days’ during which You can choose to terminate the Contract by giving Us written notice. Failure to cancel the Contract within this period will constitute acceptance of Our changes to these Terms.
_
But I can't find anything about the actual term. So guessing this letter they sent with the price increase had small print about a new 12 months. Their new terms say nothing: http://www.phonewatch.ie/about-us/terms-and-conditions-cookies/

The Consumer Protection people say:
_"Open dealing requires that terms be expressed fully, clearly and legibly with no hidden traps for the consumer. For example, appropriate prominence should be given to terms, which operate disadvantageously to the consumer, thus avoiding the creation of an ‘unfair surprise’. Hiding an onerous term in the ‘small print’ is not acceptable under the Regulations. Important aspects of the contract must be fully and prominently disclosed so that consumers can adequately inform themselves as to the nature of the terms upon which they will be contracting. Transparency also means that the terms are accessible. By ‘accessible’ the Agency is of the view that the terms should be centralised in one location and identifiable as the terms of the contract."
_
I feel like the letter was a price increase which they used to hide this change of terms/renewal of contract other stuff in and thus is not open dealing!?


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## Leo (10 Oct 2016)

Did you keep a copy of the direct debit mandate form? This should have stated it clearly.

Ask them to provide evidence you agreed to a rolling contract. Give them a set time-frame in which to provide this, be firm and let them know you're willing to take this to the Small Claims Court or further.


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## pinkie123 (25 Oct 2016)

Hi,
I got the same threatening letter from PW after cancelling my DD for monitoring - this is after enduring phone call after phone call when I rang up to cancel when my contract was up. Aparently they didn't get this in writing - even though I wasn't informed of this. They were harder to cancel than Sky - just kept trying to reduce price etc.

Anyway, I accept they needed cancellation in writing and I am trying to resolve this with them so it looks like I will pay them for another year.

However, I noticed in the letter they said they would disconnect the alarm and make it unusable in the future.
Can they do this?
I assumed when I cancelled it will just be the monitoring that is removed-  not the whole alarm? That means to move monitoring company you have to install a new alarm system?


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## Leo (25 Oct 2016)

pinkie123 said:


> However, I noticed in the letter they said they would disconnect the alarm and make it unusable in the future.
> Can they do this?
> I assumed when I cancelled it will just be the monitoring that is removed-  not the whole alarm? That means to move monitoring company you have to install a new alarm system?



The hardware they have been installing since they were acquired by Sector alarms is proprietary, and locked down to their engineers only. But you should note that PhoneWatch equipment is well out of date, and their installations fall far short of what would be considered a proper security solution by any of the competition. 

So check the PSA register for providersoperating in your area and get a few quotes, get recommendations if you can. You'll likely be pleasantly surprised that most potential suppliers will offer you a solution tailored to your needs, giving you more comprehensive coverage for a lower ongoing cost without the use of pressure or scare tactics.

Just in case it's needed for the record, I'm not involved in the industry, and my only dealing with PhoneWatch was a battle to get them to remove a system they completely mis-sold to my elderly parents.


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## pinkie123 (25 Oct 2016)

Leo said:


> The hardware they have been installing since they were acquired by Sector alarms is proprietary, and locked down to their engineers only. But you should note that PhoneWatch equipment is well out of date, and their installations fall far short of what would be considered a proper security solution by any of the competition.
> 
> So check the PSA register for providersoperating in your area and get a few quotes, get recommendations if you can. You'll likely be pleasantly surprised that most potential suppliers will offer you a solution tailored to your needs, giving you more comprehensive coverage for a lower ongoing cost without the use of pressure or scare tactics.
> 
> Just in case it's needed for the record, I'm not involved in the industry, and my only dealing with PhoneWatch was a battle to get them to remove a system they completely mis-sold to my elderly parents.



Thanks Leo,
I was in process of getting an alternative set up in July before the contract was up but I suffered a bereavement during that time and just let it slide,  and I had thought I had cancelled PW properly but tbh I can't remember as was all over the place.
Their attitude on the phone has been horrendous and hostile to say the least, and I am agreeing with them that I owe them money!
8 years of paying them for practically feic all really.
You live and learn - Awful company.


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