# How much Irish and UK State Pension can I get?



## cwc456 (4 Jun 2022)

I will be 66 next year and by then I will have over 18 years PRSI contributions. I also paid enough National Insurance contributions to get close to a full UK state pension.

As I understand it, I could get a full Irish contributory state pension as I would have more than 48 weeks average PRSI contributions over the 18 years.
However, can I get a full Irish State pension and also the full amount of UK state pension that the National Insurance contributions would entitle me to?

Where should I apply for the pensions? To the DSP in Sligo only or to both countries separately?


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## Conan (4 Jun 2022)

The average of 48 contributions pa over your 18 years only works if the length of your PRSI record is 18 years ie that you first started contributions 18 years ago. If however your 18 year history was in two tranches - say 5 years initially followed by your UK service and then another 13 years PRSI - then your average will be much less than 48.


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## cwc456 (4 Jun 2022)

Conan said:


> The average of 48 contributions pa over your 18 years only works if the length of your PRSI record is 18 years ie that you first started contributions 18 years ago. If however your 18 year history was in two tranches - say 5 years initially followed by your UK service and then another 13 years PRSI - then your average will be much less than 48.


My PRSI contributions started in 2004 and I will have 18+ unbroken years.


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## Conan (4 Jun 2022)

cwc456 said:


> My PRSI contributions started in 2004 and I will have 18+ unbroken years.


In that case you are " on the pig's back" , a full Irish and an almost full UK .
One of the quirks of the current Irish calculation model (Totals and Average) is that even with only 18 years history you can get a full State Pension.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Jun 2022)

cwc456 said:


> I also paid enough National Insurance contributions to get close to a full UK state pension.


You may still be able to pay voluntary Class 2 UK national insurance contributions to get you up to the 35 years needed for a full UK state pension as well. Look up form NI38 online, but start the process soon. These contributions are extremely cheap compared to the benefits.

As @Conan said you will be better off claiming both pensions separately. The Irish system is extremely (I would say unfairly) generous to immigrants to Ireland well into their working life, but good for you!

Remember tax is due on your total income in whichever jurisdiction you are resident in. Some pensioners have got a nasty surprise after not realising this.


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## Lisgoold (5 Jun 2022)

@Conan 
Do you know how they calculate the average? I paid PRSI for around 18 years , but started in 1990, and finished around 2011. There's two or three years in there I was out of the country.

So is it the total number of contributions , divided by the number of years between 1990 and when I reach 66?


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## jpd (5 Jun 2022)

Yes


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## cwc456 (5 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You may still be able to pay voluntary Class 2 UK national insurance contributions to get you up to the 35 years needed for a full UK state pension as well. Look up form NI38 online, but start the process soon. These contributions are extremely cheap compared to the benefits.
> 
> As @Conan said you will be better off claiming both pensions separately. The Irish system is extremely (I would say unfairly) generous to immigrants to Ireland well into their working life, but good for you!
> 
> Remember tax is due on your total income in whichever jurisdiction you are resident in. Some pensioners have got a nasty surprise after not realising this.


Good point about topping up the NI contributions.  I'm prepared to be taxed on all income wherever it comes from :-(


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jun 2022)

Lisgoold said:


> So is it the total number of contributions , divided by the number of years between 1990 and when I reach 66?


It's the total contributions approach, or the yearly average approach, whichever is more favorable to you. See here. 

If you were a stay-at-home-parent for a child under 12 you should be credited contributions also. Which increaseseligibility




Lisgoold said:


> There's two or three years in there I was out of the country.


Did you work in an EU member state (inc UK)? If so those contributions can be added to your Irish contributions to increase eligibility.


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## Lisgoold (6 Jun 2022)

@NoRegretsCoyote 

Thanks for the link. Though I'm a bit concerned about those conditions which must be met to qualify.
I meet them all, but not the last one.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jun 2022)

I think that refers to a different scheme. If you are happy to share you'll get better advice:

Year of birth:
Year of first PRSI contributions:
Total PRSI contributions to date:
Time working abroad and where:
Time (if any) spent caring for children full time:


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## Lisgoold (6 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I think that refers to a different scheme. If you are happy to share you'll get better advice:
> 
> Year of birth:
> Year of first PRSI contributions:
> ...


Born 1959, reach 66 in 2025.

First year of PRSI was 1990.

Total contributions 887.

Worked in UK from 1976 to 1990, plus all of 2008 and 2009, and from 2011 to present.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jun 2022)

Lisgoold said:


> Worked in UK from 1976 to 1990, plus all of 2008 and 2009, and from 2011 to present.


You are on track to close to a full UK pension on its own. It may be possible to "fill in the gaps" for the UK with voluntary class 2 NI contributions. Look up form NI38 and send it off to HMRC. You may get a full UK pension which requires 35 years of paid and/or voluntary contributions by 67.

For Ireland, your 887 PRSI contributions over the 35 years before retirement is an average of 25 a year, which should get you €215.70 a week, see here.

*State Pension (Contributory) rates in 2022 for people who qualified on or after 1 September 2012*

*Yearly average PRSI contributions**Personal rate per week**Increase for a qualified adult* (under 66)**Increase for a qualified adult* (over 66)*48 or over€253.30€168.70€22740-47€248.30€160.60€215.7030-39€227.70€152.80€204.5020-29€215.70€142.90€192.5015-19€165.10€110€147.4010-14€101.20€67€91.30


You are doing quite well. A full working life should get you a bit more than a pension and a half.


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## cwc456 (7 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You may still be able to pay voluntary Class 2 UK national insurance contributions to get you up to the 35 years needed for a full UK state pension as well. Look up form NI38 online, but start the process soon. These contributions are extremely cheap compared to the benefits.
> 
> As @Conan said you will be better off claiming both pensions separately. The Irish system is extremely (I would say unfairly) generous to immigrants to Ireland well into their working life, but good for you!
> 
> Remember tax is due on your total income in whichever jurisdiction you are resident in. Some pensioners have got a nasty surprise after not realising this.


Thanks again for the tip about Class 2 NI Contributions. I did some more research and was surprised to find out how inexpensive they are. I will send in the form at the end of NI38. 

I'm confused about the process for claiming the state pensions though.  According to Irish Websites and one UK GOV site you should submit just one claim, in the country where you last worked. However when I spoke to International Pensions and Future pensions in the UK, they said submit separate claims for each state pension.  If I did submit separate claims would I just ignore the sections in each form about employment in other countries?


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## jpd (7 Jun 2022)

I submitted one claim to Sligo as I am now living in Ireland and they submitted claims to the UK and France where I had worked previously.

it all worked very smoothly although it took a certain length of time. I had  checked that all three countries had up to date national insurance records prior to submitting my claim.


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## cwc456 (7 Jun 2022)

jpd said:


> I submitted one claim to Sligo as I am now living in Ireland and they submitted claims to the UK and France where I had worked previously.
> 
> it all worked very smoothly although it took a certain length of time. I had  checked that all three countries had up to date national insurance records prior to submitting my claim.


Thanks! - it certainly makes life easier if you can make just one application. So you got your full expected entitlements from each country without hitch?  Did the UK and French people contact you at all, or does it all get paid into your Irish account automatically?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (7 Jun 2022)

cwc456 said:


> However when I spoke to International Pensions and Future pensions in the UK, they said submit separate claims for each state pension.


I would do each separately, not least because date of first payment will be different.

In @jpd 's case he was probably aggregating contributions to help eligibility for one single pension in Ireland. But you'll be claiming both.


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## jpd (7 Jun 2022)

The different countries combine your contributions so as to maximise your pension

I had no contact from the UK and the French contacted me to get me to sign a few documents

In my case, contributions from the other countries were discounted as they would not have increased my pension entitlement in any of the countries

All the pensions are paid into my Irish bank account


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## Lisgoold (8 Jun 2022)

jpd said:


> The different countries combine your contributions so as to maximise your pension
> 
> I had no contact from the UK and the French contacted me to get me to sign a few documents
> 
> ...


Does this happen as one single payment per month?  Or three separate ones?


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## jpd (8 Jun 2022)

Three separate payments from three separate pension authorities - in fact three separate payments from France, so 5 in all

Why would you expect them to be one payment - each country pays on a different payment schedule:  Ireland - weekly, UK - every 4 weeks, France - once a month


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## Lisgoold (8 Jun 2022)

jpd said:


> Three separate payments from three separate pension authorities - in fact three separate payments from France, so 5 in all
> 
> Why would you expect them to be one payment - each country pays on a different payment schedule:  Ireland - weekly, UK - every 4 weeks, France - once a month


Thanks 
It's not that I expected it to be one. I'm just not sure how it works, hence the question. Because it alway states to just claim in one country, I wasn't sure if the one country paid it, and then was claiming it back from elsewhere.


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## cwc456 (8 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I would do each separately, not least because date of first payment will be different.
> 
> In @jpd 's case he was probably aggregating contributions to help eligibility for one single pension in Ireland. But you'll be claiming both.


I'm not sure why different dates of payment would affect whether you make a single or separate applications? 

I can see one advantage of separate applications though, if it allows you to have the UK pension paid into a UK account, which would make you less vulnerable to exchange rate fluctuations.


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## jpd (8 Jun 2022)

You can have your UK pension paid where ever you want


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## jim (2 Aug 2022)

How long does it take for your paymwnt of class 2 (or class 3) stamps to HMRC to be recognised on your online pension forecast? I paid in early may but still dont see anything reflected.


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## euroDilbert (2 Aug 2022)

jim said:


> How long does it take for your paymwnt of class 2 (or class 3) stamps to HMRC to be recognised on your online pension forecast? I paid in early may but still dont see anything reflected.


The last time I checked, they told me there was a 34 week delay. I think that's for bulk (multi-year) payments. I would expect annual ongoing payments to be credited sooner. However, they should be able to confirm if your payment was received, and there's also an option on the phone menu regarding this when you phone them (i.e. why has a payment I made not been credited).


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## Black Sheep (2 Aug 2022)

So whichever route you decide to go (1 or 2 separate applications) it looks like you would be entitled to a full or almost full rate of pension from each country so anything short of that would need to be followed up.
Do keep copies of all correspondence.   Best of luck


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## jim (2 Aug 2022)

euroDilbert said:


> The last time I checked, they told me there was a 34 week delay. I think that's for bulk (multi-year) payments. I would expect annual ongoing payments to be credited sooner. However, they should be able to confirm if your payment was received, and there's also an option on the phone menu regarding this when you phone them (i.e. why has a payment I made not been credited).


Cheers for that. My payment for last year was applied much quicker i think. I will give them a call to check.


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## roker (2 Aug 2022)

jpd said:


> The different countries combine your contributions so as to maximise your pension
> 
> I had no contact from the UK and the French contacted me to get me to sign a few documents
> 
> ...


You can also claim heating allowance from the UK


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## section4 (24 Aug 2022)

i was born in the uk and worked there off and on from 1973 until 1980
i then came to ireland and worked when i could from 1980 until 1983
i then returned to the UK and worked when i could from 1983 until 1994
I have been in ireland ever since and have reached pension age on 23 aug 2022

I have around 1300 irish contributions according to the Calculations by the Citizens advice bureau based on my contributions statements
I have 11 years confirmed contributions from the UK

According the CAB is should get an irish pension of 227 euro a week

but this would be my first week to be paid the pension and i see i have only received 166.40 which is well below 227 euro
I only sent my pension form in about a month ago because i was trying to make sure i had all my contributions recorded and they never sent me anything back to say what i was going to get, so maybe they have not worked it out yet and this is some type of interim payment.
I am not even sure who i should phone to query this.
can anyone shed some light on this please
and what i can expect to receive form the uk and the situation regarding topping up my uk contributions thanks


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## Conan (24 Aug 2022)

If you only sent your application last month  its not enough time for Dept. Of Social Protection to check your UK record with Newcastle.  So it's probably a payment based on your Irish contributions only. You might check with Sligo to confirm your position.


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## cwc456 (24 Aug 2022)

section4 said:


> According the CAB is should get an irish pension of 227 euro a week
> 
> but this would be my first week to be paid the pension and i see i have only received 166.40 which is well below 227 euro


Maybe the reduced payment is from the date you turned 66 to the end of the payment week? Hopefully you will get the full amount next week.


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## Lisgoold (25 Aug 2022)

section4 said:


> i was born in the uk and worked there off and on from 1973 until 1980
> i then came to ireland and worked when i could from 1980 until 1983
> i then returned to the UK and worked when i could from 1983 until 1994
> I have been in ireland ever since and have reached pension age on 23 aug 2022
> ...


Please let us know if this increases in the coming weeks, and also if you hear anything from the UK side.


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## section4 (1 Sep 2022)

@Lisgoold 

hi
further to my previous post i have  received confirmation  the expected 227 euro pension will be paid, which is good.
No word back from the UK yet, altho they have returned the Birth certs etc that i sent them so they must have at least looked at it.


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