# Constantin Gurdgiev : 23 billion in cuts needed



## UptheDeise (31 May 2010)

According to Constantin we need €23 Billion in cuts!



Read it here: http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/


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## Towger (31 May 2010)

> The cuts must include at the very least a €9.3bn reduction in the wages and pensions bill in the public sector (5.9% of GNP or almost 44% cut in the total PS wages bill, achievable through both reductions in numbers employed and wages paid and pensions benefits entitlements).


 






Let the Public Sector bashing commence


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## Kine (31 May 2010)

PS are the route of all that is evil....


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## Deiseblue (31 May 2010)

Kine said:


> PS are the route of all that is evil....



Route 666 presumably ?


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## Shawady (1 Jun 2010)

Towger said:


> Let the Public Sector bashing commence


 
What I find amazing in his article is he calls for €9.3 billion cuts in PS pay and pensions yet does not call for cut in social welfare (our biggest spending bill). He actually says of social welfare benfits "no adjustment is needed here in the short term"


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## Purple (1 Jun 2010)

What's interesting is that Singapore and Switzerland, countries that are renound for well run public services, spend well under half as much as us. It's strange since we keep getting told that we have a great Public Sector and those employed there are under paid.


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## Protocol (1 Jun 2010)

One possible reason: hospital / health care may be provided by non-State organisations.

So you pay less tax, have a "smaller" Govt, but you must have private health ins.


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## Howitzer (1 Jun 2010)

Protocol said:


> One possible reason: hospital / health care may be provided by non-State organisations.
> 
> So you pay less tax, have a "smaller" Govt, but you must have private health ins.


I had always assumed this to be the PD / Mary Harney policy on health:

The Irish Public Health Sector is too big and can't be reformed - create a parallel private service and shrink the public one.


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## Shawady (1 Jun 2010)

Purple said:


> What's interesting is that Singapore and Switzerland, countries that are renound for well run public services, spend well under half as much as us. It's strange since we keep getting told that we have a great Public Sector and those employed there are under paid.


 
Failure to reform Health sector and so many quangos are two reasons that spring to mind.
From my experience in the civil service, I've no doubt the same level of public service could be supplied by smaller numbers. How much smaller I don't know.


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## Chris (1 Jun 2010)

Protocol said:


> One possible reason: hospital / health care may be provided by non-State organisations.
> 
> So you pay less tax, have a "smaller" Govt, but you must have private health ins.



While in Switzerland you do pay only private health insurance, and no taxes go towards the health service, everybody has a choice on whether to go to a state or privately run hospital. This is the main reason the health service there is so exceptionally good, because state run hospitals have to compete with private ones for patients.
Here are some figures that compare the costs of the Irish "health service" and the Swiss one:
1) Annual budget for HSE is about €15bn, that's about €3750 for every man, woman and child and doesn't cover day to day medical costs such as GP visits, prescriptions, etc, but does gurantee long waiting lists.
2) In Switzerland the mandatory private health insurance cover costs the equivalent of between €200-250 per month for an adult which is about €3000 per annum, and you do not pay to see a GP or for prescriptions (children are much cheaper); and this in a country that has higher wages and higher costs of living than Ireland.

As soon as government steps in to try and provide a service you are guranteed it will cost more money, no matter how many times socialists tell us that private industry is the root of ripoffs.


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## DerKaiser (4 Jun 2010)

I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if we couldn't borrow the €20bn (or whatever) we'll need this year.

There's generally a focus on what can be cut from the current budget rather than building up from scratch the essentials i.e. if the govt take in €30bn p.a. what €30bn of expenditure is an absolute necessity?

People have to start thinking in these terms.  We've lived through a period of 15 years of not having to make tough choices and that period is well and truly over.


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## onq (1 Jul 2010)

Chris said:


> (snip)
> As soon as government steps in to try and provide a service you are guranteed it will cost more money, no matter how many times socialists tell us that private industry is the root of ripoffs.



I'd qualify that to say that Private Industry without competition results in ripoffs.

The free market model only works in the absence of cartels and on a level playing field.

Barriers to providing services and allowing cartels are what maintain high prices, discourage innovation and create a closed shop mentality.

ONQ.


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## Chris (2 Jul 2010)

onq said:


> I'd qualify that to say that Private Industry without competition results in ripoffs.
> 
> The free market model only works in the absence of cartels and on a level playing field.
> 
> ...



Absolutely correct, but all that government interventions (regulations, tax breaks, stimuli, etc) do is decrease competition. Unless access to any private industry is unhindered to new companies you will end up with cartels created by the state.

On a totally free market a company can only become extremely large by providing the best and cheapest product. The only thing the state should be doing is to ensure that no person or company uses coercion on consumers. 

Take Tesco as an example. The only reason they are so large a player is because a huge portion of people choose to spend their money on their products because they perceive them as good value. I personally disagree and don't shop there, but it is not up to me or anybody else to decide what or where people should spend their money. Teso is not some sort of parasite on society because small retailers cannot compete; the only reason they are so large is because lots of consumers decide to shop there.


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