# iMac or Dell XPS 720



## Shrimp (15 Oct 2007)

Afternoon everyone. I know this is pretty much down to whether you prefer PCs or Macs, but if you had a choice between these two machines, bearing in mind the price difference, which would you go for: (1)   iMac - E2,500 (not sure what will happen the price when Leopard comes out in a fortnight??) - 24-inch monitor, 2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, SuperDrive 8x, 2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB, 750GB Serial ATA Drive, 2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme.     (2)   Dell XPS 720 – E1,900 - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 processor (2.66GHz, 1333MHz, 4MB cache), Dell 22&quot; Black Wide Flat Panel (E228WFP), 1024MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x512], 320GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA/100 Hard Drive with 16MB DataBurst cache, 16x DVD +/- RW Drive, 256MB nVidia™ GeForce 8600GTS graphics card, 128MB Ageia™ PhysX™ physics accelerator PCI card


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## anseo (15 Oct 2007)

Why are you spending so much on a PC? I presume it's not for games as you suggested an iMac.

If I were you I wouldn't go for an Apple. 

However, I wouldn't go for that Dell either. Go over to the Dell Desktops Thread over at Bargain Alerts on Boards.ie and look/wait for a system there. Then upgrade the system yourself. You can get a Samsung 225bw for about €270 on eBay which is a much better monitor than the E228WFP. Also 1GB of RAM isn't really much these days, you can pick some up for good prices on eBay as well. And the GeForce 8600 GTS  is like something you'd get in a Laptop. If fact, apart from the monitor, you can pick up a better laptop for about €750, ie this Dell Vostro:
Intel Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7250 2.00GHz
2GB RAM
160GB HD
256MB nVidia® GeForce® 8600M GT


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## Shrimp (15 Oct 2007)

Thanks for the reply anseo, good advice.  I know it's a lot of money, too much, but I'm so fed up with my computers running out of memory and disk space I decided to buy the biggest baddest monster on the market so I'd be set up for life!!  I know, very daft.  No, I'm not in to games, apart from the usual (word processor, email, internet, other basic applications) I'm mainly in to photo and video editing, etc. Just tempted to switch to a Mac, fell in love with my pal's iMac, seems like a beautiful machine - and amazingly powerful. Will have a look at that boards.ie link, thanks again for the advice.


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## sam h (15 Oct 2007)

This strategy won't really future proof you as you'll really just be spending loads of money on technology you don't need.  The reason these high end system are so much more expensive is that they are utilising new (expensive) technology that is suitable for high end users....but you won't get much, if any, use from. Dell would only expect these PC's to account for less than 5% of their overall Dimension sales.  
You would be better served by a more basic PC with a good processor, loads of memory & plently of hard drive.....and it will cost about half the price. 
I know nothing about iMac's.


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## GeneralZod (15 Oct 2007)

For what it's worth I vote for the 24" iMac.  The spec you quote is actually €2,369. I'd get the same spec with the basic 500GB drive instead for €2,219. That's the one I'm going to get when Leopard is released at the end of the month.  The user friendliness and style of the Mac is more than worth the cost difference. I think Windows Vista is worse than XP if that's possible.


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## z101 (15 Oct 2007)

PC with XP. macs are overpriced and their only advantage is on virus front. I use both and If I was spending my own money it's a no brainer.


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## Shrimp (2 Nov 2007)

GeneralZod said:


> For what it's worth I vote for the 24&quot; iMac.  The spec you quote is actually €2,369. I'd get the same spec with the basic 500GB drive instead for €2,219. That's the one I'm going to get when Leopard is released at the end of the month.  The user friendliness and style of the Mac is more than worth the cost difference. I think Windows Vista is worse than XP if that's possible.


 
Took the plunge in the end and went for the 24" iMac, as you suggested, and it's the most magnificent piece of kit I have ever seen or worked with in my life   Expensive, yes, and it's very limited on the upgradable front, but it's just a sheer joy to work with. Cheerio Windows! Thanks GeneralZod.


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## aircobra19 (4 Nov 2007)

Computers devalue so fast they are pretty much disposable. So the cost of the machine should be spread across its useful life and then considered worth nothing at the end.


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## GeneralZod (4 Nov 2007)

Shrimp said:


> it's the most magnificent piece of kit I have ever seen or worked with in my life    Cheerio Windows! Thanks GeneralZod.



Shrimp, glad you're pleased with it. I've got the 20" at present so I can only imagine how much nicer the 24" screen is. Did it have Leopard installed on it? Another Mac convertee showed it to me last week after upgrading their MacBook and it looks like a great update.


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## Shrimp (4 Nov 2007)

GeneralZod said:


> Shrimp, glad you're pleased with it. I've got the 20&quot; at present so I can only imagine how much nicer the 24&quot; screen is. Did it have Leopard installed on it? Another Mac convertee showed it to me last week after upgrading their MacBook and it looks like a great update.


 
Hi GeneralZod, much to my embarrassment I didn't have the patience to wait long enough to ensure Leopard would be pre-installed but I got the upgrade disk for about E7 from Apple and it installed perfectly. I've been very lucky, I know lots of people seem to be having screen and freezing problems, but so far so good. To be honest I think it's worth every penny, it's just a pleasure to work with. The 20 inch screen really would have done me fine, the 24 inch is HUGE, but I never had much sense. Any way, would recommend the iMac to any one, it's a joy - and thanks again for the advice!


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## kerr (5 Nov 2007)

I couldn't go back to PCs now after having a Mac. Not to mention the last two people I knew to own a new Dell were reading to throw them out with the rubbish!


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## aircobra19 (5 Nov 2007)

The joys of Vista.


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## extopia (5 Nov 2007)

There's really no reason not to consider a mac  these days. All the intel macs can run windows, if that's what you want, and Macs are NOT overpriced if you compare them feature for feature with any PC.


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## aircobra19 (5 Nov 2007)

extopia said:


> There's really no reason not to own a mac these days. All the intel macs can run windows, if that's what you want, and Macs are NOT overpriced if you compare them feature for feature with any PC.



Only if you compare the list prices. You can pick up bargain Dells from ebay and the outlet store for much reduced prices. The Apple Outlet isn't as good on bargains. IMO. Also if you buy a Mac you need to buy a XP licence which adds to the cost. So factor that in aswell. The specs can vary a lot too, as the Dell and Apple products lines don't always match up. 15" high res vs 15" low res etc. Apple are also not immune from quality controls issues and bugs that can take a class action to resolve. Apple are also not immune to shafting their cutomers to make a buck. But once you are aware of all that, and not blinded by the marketing. Apples are lovely machines and are better now than they've ever been in the past. 

Basically this is good time to buy an Apple.


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## diarmuidc (5 Nov 2007)

Definately the mac. Yes you can get a Dell for cheaper than a mac but is the time you spend, installing+maintaining ainti-virus/spyware/driver confilicts worth it? And the usability of the iMac out of the box is in a different league from the Dell. iPhoto vs trial version of PSP? iMovie vs ?, Garageband vs ? etc.... I switched 2 years ago and definately the best move in computing that I have made.


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## aircobra19 (5 Nov 2007)

What time? Once the software/driver is installed I have no need to reinstall it. I haven't seen a conflict in many years. So not an issue for me, or my users tbh. It depends if you'd use those apps. Only some users would, so it would depend on what you use it for. I work in IT and rarely see the problems you are talking about, even with Vista, and I don't like Vista. 

Its not like Mac's are immune to problems either.


I like macs but they are not perfect machines the marketing would have you believe. But then I'm jaded,  having used PC's and Macs for many years.


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## extopia (5 Nov 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> Basically this is good time to buy an Apple.



Well I agree with you, obviously, although I think it's always been a good time to buy Macintosh.

Based on what you said above, why exactly do you think now's the time?

I disagree with your analysis of Dell vs Apple prices, by the way. Why would it ever be cheaper to buy a Dell from eBay than from Dell itself? The kit that gets sold off on eBay is not the latest and greatest, and at worst is obsolete. You can buy cheap macs (used) on eBay too.

I've used both macs and pcs too, for many years. Nowadays I use my mac to run the windows I can't do without. It's the most stable environment I've ever had for the OS.


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## GeneralZod (5 Nov 2007)

Well I've just taken the plunge again and bought another one. The 24" iMac this time. This one has 15,625 times more RAM and 25,000 times more disk space than the Mac+ I was given by Apple when in college in 1991.  Great for playing tetris.

I agree with aircobra's comment that Macs have never been better than they are now.


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## aircobra19 (5 Nov 2007)

extopia said:


> Well I agree with you, obviously, although I think it's always been a good time to buy Macintosh.
> 
> Based on what you said above, why exactly do you think now's the time?



The hardware is the same as the PC more or less. Big problem in the past was Apple used to make older hardware obsolete by changing the hardware platform. 



extopia said:


> I disagree with your analysis of Dell vs Apple prices, by the way. Why would it ever be cheaper to buy a Dell from eBay than from Dell itself? The kit that gets sold off on eBay is not the latest and greatest, and at worst is obsolete. You can buy cheap macs (used) on eBay too.



Because Dell have an ebay outlet, aswell as their outlet store on their website. The machines are as new, with 1yr warranty and are the latest machines. For example theres been quad core machines going for the last while on both outlets. Big savings from the regular store. 

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055169363



extopia said:


> I've used both macs and pcs too, for many years. Nowadays I use my mac to run the windows I can't do without. It's the most stable environment I've ever had for the OS.



You do realise that the hardware is the same in PC's and Mac's now?


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## stir crazy (6 Nov 2007)

Shrimp said:


> but I'm so fed up with my computers running out of memory and disk space



why not just add more memory and a bigger hard disk to your existing desktop ? I d only buy a model like whats being suggested if it was  a laptop I was after

what are the specs of your existing machine(s) ?


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## extopia (7 Nov 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> You do realise that the hardware is the same in PC's and Mac's now?



I do, yes. However I also believe that Apple tries harder than anyone else to put together high quality components that work well together.


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## diarmuidc (7 Nov 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> What time? Once the software/driver is installed I have no need to reinstall it. I haven't seen a conflict in many years. So not an issue for me, or my users tbh. It depends if you'd use those apps. Only some users would, so it would depend on what you use it for. I work in IT and rarely see the problems you are talking about, even with Vista, and I don't like Vista.



What about viruses and spyware?


> Its not like Mac's are immune to problems either.


 Come on! The OS is out about 1 week. The serivce pack on XP that made it acutally usable connected to the internet came out 1 year after XP while service pack 3 is currently in development 6 years after XP was released !


> I like macs but they are not perfect machines the marketing would have you believe.


 I'm not saying that but Windows is not even at the races when compared to OSX.


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## aircobra19 (7 Nov 2007)

extopia said:


> I do, yes. However I also believe that Apple tries harder than anyone else to put together high quality components that work well together.



The surveys don't really agree with you. Apple usually rates on a par with the quality PC brands. 
Which is logical since they all use the same components. 
Apple is not immune to problems though. [broken link removed]


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## aircobra19 (7 Nov 2007)

diarmuidc said:


> What about viruses and spyware?
> Come on! The OS is out about 1 week. The serivce pack on XP that made it acutally usable connected to the internet came out 1 year after XP while service pack 3 is currently in development 6 years after XP was released !
> I'm not saying that but Windows is not even at the races when compared to OSX.



Once you install some AV/Security and don't be an idiot on the web its not a problem. XP was very usuable on the web when released. Most of SP1 was released in updates and patches before the service pack. Service pack 3 will be the same.

Of course OS X is more advanced that Windows. XP is just a development of Windows NT released in 1993. OS X is essentially an Apple flavoured Unix. The security model of OS X is copied from UNIX. "It is a descendent of the BSD UNIX family and the original AT&T UNIX, which have been around more than 30 years." [broken link removed] OS X is a nice OS no argument. Its has its own problems though. Some would have you believe it has none.


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## boskonay (9 Nov 2007)

Something also to remember is that Mac's have a much higher resale value than equivalent PC's - so the actual cost to own one is not as high, often as the same spec PC, even if the PC costs less on day 1.

They also rock


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## aircobra19 (9 Nov 2007)

boskonay said:


> Something also to remember is that Mac's have a much higher resale value than equivalent PC's - so the actual cost to own one is not as high, often as the same spec PC, even if the PC costs less on day 1.
> 
> They also rock



They do indeed rock but...

Apple has a habit of forced obsolescence that decimates the value of the older platforms. The recent change to Intel from G5 really hurt the values of the G4/G5( desktops at least). Luckly theres usually community hacks (like XPostFacto) that circumvent Apples forced obsolescence. But  even when thats not an issue I think the 2nd hand market really wants intel machines not the earlier ones.


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## boskonay (9 Nov 2007)

[broken link removed] is a great article on the subject.

I agree with you on the Intel stuff, and Apple's 'way' (I have an Applie IIgs on my desk here, one of the worst examples of apples abandonment of their loyal customers  ) - but the newer intel macs are pretty well futureproofed for the forseeable future.


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## aircobra19 (9 Nov 2007)

Indeed hence...



aircobra19 said:


> ....Apples are lovely machines and are better now than they've ever been in the past.
> 
> Basically this is good time to buy an Apple.



They moved hardware platforms a good few times over the years. So they could do it again. 
However theres nothing on the immediate horizon likely to make Apple move from Intel. Unless Steve has a row with intel over something.


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## boskonay (9 Nov 2007)

Never say never 

Ahh, my poor IIgs - better than most of the early mac's she was, and still going strong since 1988!


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## aircobra19 (9 Nov 2007)

Wow check out that screen shot of the desktop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIGS

Never used those older Mac, I started with the compacts. We still have a mint fully working Quadra 800. Thats the oldest Apple we have. I've always yearned for a Quadra 700 for some reason.


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