# First Provisional Licence - Driving Alone?



## delgirl (29 Jun 2005)

I know a 17 year-old boy who just got his first provisional licence a few weeks ago and is driving around on his own in the car - up to a distance of about 20 miles from home.

I meet him a lot on the road near where I live and am wondering - if he crashed into me, would he be insured?  He's on his mother's insurance as a named driver, but I thought he would have to be accompanied by a qualified driver on a first licence?


----------



## contemporary (29 Jun 2005)

He should be accompanied, but then so should a lot more on the road, if you were unluckly to be hit by him his insurance would cover you, however he would have his own problems with the gardai if called. In saying that I know a provisional driver who was unluckly enough to have an accident by his insurance company never asked was he accompanied or not


----------



## Chris (29 Jun 2005)

It probably depends on how large the claim is. If it is a small amount, let's say less than 5k, the insurance company will get it back out in larger premium. Driving into the side of an S-Class Merc and causing injury, could very quickly run into the 100000s and I'm sure the insurance company will launch a full inquiry into the incident.


----------



## jhegarty (29 Jun 2005)

delgirl said:
			
		

> I know a 17 year-old boy who just got his first provisional licence a few weeks ago and is driving around on his own in the car - up to a distance of about 20 miles from home.
> 
> I meet him a lot on the road near where I live and am wondering - if he crashed into me, would he be insured? He's on his mother's insurance as a named driver, but I thought he would have to be accompanied by a qualified driver on a first licence?


 
the insurance company have to pay your damanges no matter what, even if he is drunk, on drugs doing 200mph down the wrong side of a motorway... they can never get out of paying your damange... his damage might be a different issue though...


----------



## delgirl (29 Jun 2005)

Thanks for that - very reassuring to know.  I still think it's an awful dangerous thing to allow such a young person with no driving experience out onto busy roads on his own.


----------



## fobs (5 Jul 2005)

I think we are more lenient than other countries when it comes to how we treat learner drivers. Also it probably has a lot to do with the poor transport links around the country where especially outside Dublin people rely on their cars to get to/from work and so take the chance to drive on the provisional licience unacommpanied. This doesn't make for safe roads as when I first started to learn to drive was very nervoues and know my reactions much slower and relied on having a qualified driver with me. I live near to where I work so only needed the car for leisure and so this made it easier.


----------



## RainyDay (5 Jul 2005)

jhegarty said:
			
		

> the insurance company have to pay your damanges no matter what, even if he is drunk, on drugs doing 200mph down the wrong side of a motorway... they can never get out of paying your damange... his damage might be a different issue though...


They may also pursue him and/or the car owner personally for the costs of any claim they paid out.


----------



## podgerodge (6 Jul 2005)

plenty of women (in general) driving around with L plates carrying their kids in the car.  What with all the regulations these days about child safety I've never heard someone give out about the fact that a person who is not proven to be able to drive a car can take an un-consenting child around with them! Surely you should only be allowed to carry consenting adults until you have a full licence?


----------



## Joe1234 (6 Jul 2005)

It may not necessarily mean that just because someone is driving a car with an L plate, that they are actually the learner.  When I was learning, mrs joe1234 would often keep the L plate on the car as it was handy - too much hassle for me to put up L plates, drive for maybe 5 minutes, and then take them down.  I don't know if there was anything illegal in that though.  I have also seen pleanty of middle aged men and women driving around with L plates, which I assume are for their children who also use the parents car.


----------



## podgerodge (12 Jul 2005)

May not be , but I'd hazard a guess that most L plate cars driven by mothers with young kids are being driven by the learner.


----------



## franmac (13 Jul 2005)

Was driving down a slip road to join the M4 and there was a motor bike garda stopping L drivers going on to the motorway. The car directly in front of me was a young girl , a neighbour of mine and she was stopped and presumably fined.

My concern is that L drivers are not allowed to use motorways while they are learning to drive and yet if they pass the test they can then drive on these roads having had no tuition driving on them.


----------



## CCOVICH (13 Jul 2005)

Yes, fair enough, but I would point out two things here:


1. Motorways are designed to speed up the flow of traffic from A to B. Most users should be driving at something approaching the speed limit, 120kph. I don't think the majority of L drivers should be doing anything like 120kph, and hence have no business on a motorway.

2. Quite a bit more judgement is required when using a motorway, especially in relation to concentration, breaking distances and the speed of other motorists. Again, it is not likely that L drivers have enough experience in these areas to use motorways.

It is a chicken and egg scenario, but I don't think there is anything wrong with this legislation, in fact I think it should be more rigidly enforced, but that's another story. The problem here is with the format of the Irish driving test, that forces L drivers to focus on:


driving at 50kph
hill starts
reversing around a corner in a quiet estate
and ignores things like:

overtaking
driving at night
driving on dual carriageways/motorways
What causes the most accidents? Errors made in the first group above, or the second? Why not have a longer or two part driving test that concentrates on a wider range of driving skills. When I was preparing for my test, my instructor told me the Irish driving test was a farce (too easy) and doesn't teach L drivers anything valuable. I was only concerned about passing the damned thing, but when you think about it, I think it really is a joke (despite this, thousands still fail every year ).


----------



## jasconius (13 Jul 2005)

I agree with all that has been said. If you go to Europe there is no way you would be allowed out on your own. You would take your instructions in a state owned car provided for you with dual controls. This instruction would last up to three months and you would finally take your test (if allowed) in the state owned car.After that you drive around with the equivalent of an R plate for several months.

Can you see that happening here?
We haven't got the right attitude in this country -same as alcohol consumption!


----------



## delgirl (13 Jul 2005)

I'm glad some of you feel as strong about this issue as I do.  I think it's criminal, both on the parents' part and the part of the Gardai, to allow a 17 year old to drive a potentially lethal weapon on his own with so little driving experience and so many hormones raging.

I saw him again yesterday with the girlfriend beside him.  They were both sitting so low in the car, I'm surprised he could see out!  He was steering with his left hand and talking on the mobile with his right.

This is the only country I know of that 'allows' this to happen.  Where I grew up and did my test - he would have been off the road within days and the parents cautioned.


----------



## Joe1234 (13 Jul 2005)

I agree with the comments about no tution for motorway driving.  About 4 months after passing my test, I took my first drive on the M1, and that was about 9 am on a bank holiday monday.  I was quite nervous but glad that the motorway was so quiet so I could at least get used to driving in different circumstances.


----------



## franmac (14 Jul 2005)

CCOVICH

I totally agree with your first point but on your second point thats where my concern lies. At least if L drivers can take driving lessons on the motor ways they can be advised on speed and the safest way to use the lanes while driving faster.

The biggest joke in this country regarding road safety is our driving test system where you do your test and you fail and you are sent off in your car which you are not driving properly and off you go on your own unaccompied with no experienced driver.


----------



## Samantha (20 Jul 2005)

Ireland should get rid of provisionnal licence and only people with full driving licence should be allow on the road.


----------



## Joe1234 (20 Jul 2005)

Samantha, 

How do you propose that people get a full licence?


----------



## franmac (22 Jul 2005)

Samantha,

That statement is crazy. How do people learn to drive if they can't have lessons on the road but I am inclined to agree that provisional licence holders should have a full licence holder with them on all their journeys.


----------



## bond-007 (22 Jul 2005)

The answer is to have closed circuits to teach drivers to pass their test on and then release them on to the roads.


----------



## Seagull (22 Jul 2005)

Learner drivers need to be able to handle traffic as and when they get their license. They need to drive in real world traffic while they are learning. They should start off in really quiet areas where they won't encounter traffic, and then progress into heavier traffic over time, including motorways. This would ideally be in a dual-control car with an instructor until they reach a fair degree of competence, but at the very least with a passenger with a full license. There could be a requirement that they only be allowed on the motorway in a dual-control car with an instructor. Which would you prefer - 
a) Reasonably proficient learner driver on motorway with instructor
b) Newly qualified driver on the motorway on their own for the first time with no clue how to drive in motorway conditions
Either way, they should not be allowed out on their own.


----------



## starlite68 (23 Jul 2005)

are you allowed to drive alone on your second provisional licence??


----------



## Joe1234 (23 Jul 2005)

Starlite68, 
yes, but only on your second provisional.  If you have a 3rd provisional, you need a full licence holder with you.


----------

