# Demand from debt management company



## Wexfordman (13 Jun 2013)

Hi,
 A  few years ago, I took out a store card with debenhams to avail of one of these 15% discount offers on a purchase. Normally, I never use store cards, and I took it out just to get the discount. Anyway there was a small amount on the card, about 200 euro, and I stupidly let it pay by DD.

Anyway, my recollection is a it hazy, but there was some issue with the dd not being paid (not due to funds, but I think I mistakenly deleted it online,), and several attempts were made to set it up again, between myself and santander, and it always seemed to go wrong, so we made a number of payments by cheque. I recall getting a call from them, and said that I wnted to clear the amount, so would pay 50 euro pm, and gave them my card details over the phone, and they said that they would debit the payments monthly to clear it. I ws happy, and said work awy.

Today, I received a letter from Cabot Financial with a demand for 114.09. They are a debt management company and my "debt" has been passed to them.

I was furious, I never received any letter or phone calls from santander saying there was an issue, and tbh,, I thought the entire thing had been paid off by now. I never got so much as a letter or phone call saying that there was an issue which they considered worthy of passing the debt on to a debt management company.

I rang cabot, and asked them to get santader to ring me as I wanted an explanation. They said they could not do that, and they needed a payment. I said I had no issue with paying, but was furious that this had been passed to them, my dealings were iwth santander, and I was unaware of any problems.

Cabot said that they could not comunicate this back to santander, and they had to receive payment or else they would be forced to follow a process.

I said, I had no problem paying the debt, and if santandar contacted me, I would do so, after giving them an earfull and finding out why this had happened.

He said he would hold off for a week before proceeding any further!

I sat down afterwards and had a think and this sounds crazy. I just receive a letter from a debt manaement company saying I owe money, an they expect me to pay it without quibble. I have no idea if the amont is correct, or what it is made up or, if they hae applied any fees etc.

I wrote an email to cabot outining this, and requested them to get santander to contact me with details of payments etc, and to outline what communication had occurred before this was passed to a debt manatement company.

Sorry for whine, but does this sound like a reasonable approach, and am I handling this correctly ? Im really annoyed, but also confused, but I dont want my credit rating affected.

Appreciate the advice.

THanks,
wexfordman


I do get the impression that cabot would rather I send them the amount (made out to debenhams), as they may get some fee for the payment being sent to them!


----------



## MrEarl (13 Jun 2013)

Hello,

Can I suggest:

A)  Put a registered letter to Santander, asking for a full transaction statement and letter explaining how your debt has been transferred, to Cabot.  No doubt you can dig out an old statement or other correspondence, so as to get the account number etc.

B)  Put a registered letter to Cabot (I see they have an Irish office, so check if it's the Irish or UK office your dealing with first) and also request a statement, along with letter explaining the current situation, from them.

Perhaps also include a small payment, as a gesture of goodwill but stating clearly that this is a goodwill gesture, pending satisfactory evidence of the debt and transactions leading to the current balance, being provided to you.

Each of the above entities will be licenced and regulated so if you don't get a response within a reasonable period, submit a complaint to the relevant authorities (i.e. possibly the FSO for Santander or first, the UK Financial Services Ombudsman etc).

Do you know if the debt has actually been sold to Cabot by the way, as I think they act as both collection agents and sometimes buy distressed debt, then try to collect it themselves ?  .. if they have bought it, you may later be able to negotiate a full settlement at less than the balance quoted (assuming it is proven to be genuine and you can afford to pay an amount immediately).

Good luck with this.

Mr. Earl.


----------



## Jim2007 (13 Jun 2013)

Wexfordman said:


> I rang cabot, and asked them to get santader to ring me as I wanted an explanation.





Wexfordman said:


> I wrote an email to cabot outining this, and requested them to get santander to contact me with details of payments etc, and to outline what communication had occurred before this was passed to a debt manatement company.



And what is stopping you contacting Santader yourself???  Expecting Cabot to play piggy in the middle is probably not going to happen...


----------



## Wexfordman (13 Jun 2013)

Jim2007 said:


> And what is stopping you contacting Santader yourself???  Expecting Cabot to play piggy in the middle is probably not going to happen...



Fair point but it is cabot who are telling me to pay a debt that I know nothing about ? If I rang you and asked you to pay a bill, then surely you would ask me for proof and a breakdown of the bill ?

TBH, I have no issue with paying the amount, it is affordable, its just that I dont like the idea that someone has alledged that I have not been able to pay a debt, when I actually have not been asked to pay it.


----------



## Wexfordman (13 Jun 2013)

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can I suggest:
> 
> ...




Thanks Earl. My impression is the debt has not been sold to them, as they have asked for payment to be made out to santander, not the agency, but to send th cheque to cabot (they said that If i rang santander myself, they woud probably not accept payment from me).

Making a token payment sounds like a good idea, but in reality, I actually dont know if I actually owe them any money in the first place!


----------



## emeralds (13 Jun 2013)

Did you not get statements from Santander?
I had a Debenhams store card and I got a statement every month. In fact, I am 15.88 in credit and I still get a statement every month! Must figure out how to close the card and spend the 15.88...


----------



## Wexfordman (13 Jun 2013)

We sent a cheque in april, but no statement form them since!


----------



## Jim2007 (13 Jun 2013)

Wexfordman said:


> We sent a cheque in april, but no statement form them since!



Can you check your statements to see if the cheque was cashed?


----------



## Wexfordman (13 Jun 2013)

Yeah the cheques were cashed. Don't know if they were final cheques or if there was more outstanding,


----------



## Gerry Canning (14 Jun 2013)

Wexfordman said:


> Yeah the cheques were cashed. Don't know if they were final cheques or if there was more outstanding,


Wexfordman, DO NOT make a token payment !!! Once you do you acknowledge a debt.
1. Tell Cabot you do not know them and have no contract with them.
they may say they act for Santander, that is NOT your problem. 
2. Do not engage in any phone calls with Cabot, ( unsolicitated calls are hardly to tell you you won the lotto!!. As a rule of thumb do not answer private calls. If you do, DO NOT give your date of Birth. Think about it , they are ringing YOU for their purposes NOT yours.Without verifying who you are they can,t proceed on a call.
3. If you want ( I wouldn,t be bothered)Ask Santander for chapter and verse on how you may owe THEM money.

I suppose what I am STRONGLY saying is avoid Cabot..
Also for that amount of money Cabot are on a trawl to see can they squeeze a handy few bob .


----------



## Gerry Canning (14 Jun 2013)

In relation to your credit rating fill in request for Irish Credit Bureau ltd , ICB House Newstead, Clonskeagh Road , Dublin 14. put in 6 euro and they will send you your rating.

I would be very surprised if this showed up.


----------



## Wexfordman (14 Jun 2013)

salmon9077 said:


> Wexfordman, DO NOT make a token payment !!! Once you do you acknowledge a debt.
> 1. Tell Cabot you do not know them and have no contract with them.
> they may say they act for Santander, that is NOT your problem.
> 2. Do not engage in any phone calls with Cabot, ( unsolicitated calls are hardly to tell you you won the lotto!!. As a rule of thumb do not answer private calls. If you do, DO NOT give your date of Birth. Think about it , they are ringing YOU for their purposes NOT yours.Without verifying who you are they can,t proceed on a call.
> ...




Thanks for advice. I rang debenhams/santander this morning, and they said they would not talk to me as they no longer hold any details of my account, and that I need to deal with Cabot!

Funny thing is, when you dial through cust service, it gives your balance and you last payment, the balance is higher than the amount cabot are looking for, and the last payment was (45 euro) which was via cheque in feb. I am sure I said to them via a phone call after that to debit monhtly via my debit card 30 euro a month, but looking now that does not seem to have happened.

So, for some reason, I have a debt wich has been passed on to a debt management company, for a debt I was both willing and able to pay, and now I can no longer deal with the person whom I took out the debt in the first place!

I also have no idea what the balance is made up of, what charges if any have been applied etc. 

Kinda messed up!


----------



## Gerry Canning (14 Jun 2013)

Just a thought;;;;Be careful they don,t hold authority to debit you the 30 each month.


----------



## Wexfordman (14 Jun 2013)

But I wouldnt mind if they did, thats what I agreed with them! TBH, all Iwant to do is clear the debt, once I know how much and for what, but all I know at the moment, is its a demand for 114 euro!


----------



## Gerry Canning (14 Jun 2013)

Wexfordman said:


> But I wouldnt mind if they did, thats what I agreed with them! TBH, all Iwant to do is clear the debt, once I know how much and for what, but all I know at the moment, is its a demand for 114 euro!


......................

Banks have a (nice) little habit of adding on  little extra interest and will tell you it is in your contract !!.
Let them give you chapter and verse before you part .


----------



## BazzaDP (16 Jun 2013)

It does sound like terrible customer service Debenhams/Santander (and Cabbot) and clearly it could have been handled in a lot better fashion.

However... you have to admit you've handled this in a terrible fashion yourself! There were some problems with the original DD (which you admit might be because you accidentally deleted it), and had all sorts of problems setting it up again, and then you assumed it would be paid off and never checked. On checking now you see regular payments were not taken and so the debt was not paid.

Personally I would say there is fault at both ends (yourself in causing this issue and in not seeing it through to the end, and Debenhams in not resolving it and selling your debt on).

Either way there is a debt outstanding. And it seems Santander have confirmed you should deal with Cabot. Surely you must have some idea yourself what was paid and how much is outstanding? Bearing in mind you expected a few payments of 50 euro which were not made, the 114 euro they say you owe sounds in the region of what you you owe. That would, I imagine, be made up of some extra charges so I'm surprised it's not more but anyway it's in the ballpark and not a ridiculous sum.

So you have two choices: 1) You can either ignore it, pleading that Debenhams/Santander made a complete mess of this therefore you don't think you should have to pay this and be willing to deal with the consequences of this or 2) you can explain the situation to Cabot, ask politely for a break down of the debt and how you can resolve it so it doesn't create a stain on your credit record, pay the debt and possibly write a letter of complaint to Debenhams/Santander to express your dissatisfaction and request a refund of the extra fees that have been added due to this debt being unnecessarily sold to Cabot. Personally, I would opt for option 2 if it was me but I would say I need a breakdown in writing before you can proceed. In fact you should get everything in writing in case this rears it's head again in a few months (especially as the balance outstanding appears to be more than this 114.09).

You keep saying you don't have a problem paying the debt but you seem to be doing everything possible to NOT pay it. I understand you are annoyed it's been passed to a debt management company but that doesn't change the fact it has been. Find out how to resolve this rather than trying to go back in time to change that fact.


----------



## Wexfordman (16 Jun 2013)

Bazza,


First off, I am not doing everything I possibly can not to pay the debt, I absoltley 100% intend to repay it, its is money I owe, and there is no question about that. I am simply mystified at how the issue has come to this, and I suppose, I am quite correctly ensuring that the correct amount is calculated and paid before I commit to anything

I never said I was blameless, I did point out I mistakenly deleted the direct debit, while trying to clear up some other stuff. The last contact I had with them, was when I set up a mandate to debit via my visa debit card every month, for what should have been 3 to 4 months to clear the whole thing.

Yes, I mistakenly assumed that was working afterwards, and never checked to see the debit comming out, I assumed if there was an issue they would have contacted me again, but yes, I prob should have followed it up afterwards.

It seems some letters/bills arrived in the door in jan and feb, and my wife just sent off cheques to pay them, and never said/mentioned it to me. So even then, payments were being made. The letters/blls never arrived after that, just the demand from cabot this week.

I went through my statements to see if I could see the debits on the visa debit card, but my bank does not hold detals past 6 minths, so I am not sure if those payments went through or not.

Anyway, story is, cabot have said they will contact debenhams and get the details i requested (bill, outstnding amount, list of payments made, and an explanation of what contact they attempted to make).

It just seems odd to me, becuase I never had an issue or a warning from them in any shape or form, there was never an issue with repayment beyond technical issues with the dd, which I sorted out over the phone.


----------



## Luternau (16 Jun 2013)

This seems a minor debt-is it worth all the hassle? You dont deny you owe it -and want to absolutely 90% pay it (100%?). 
You do seem to have been cery casual in your dealings with this-this is never a good idea when it comes to dealings with financial instutions.
Debenhams or whoever have the right to sell the debt on or pass/assign it to someone else without your permission or knowledge.


----------



## Wexfordman (16 Jun 2013)

I would not say I was casual about it, as you said it was a small debt, and I assumed that the repayment issue was sorted, it seems that is was not, and neither you nor I know why, so lets not jump to conclusions eh ?

I dont quite get your point about the 90% bit, could you elaborate, I'v already quire clearly stated that I intend to repay the debt fully, so why are you stating 90% etc ?

I dont have an issue with debenhams passing the debt on, I have an issue with getting a demand letter from a debt management company stating, pay me 114 euro or else, without any explanation, breakdown etc.


----------



## Luternau (16 Jun 2013)

From your post;



Wexfordman said:


> Bazza,
> 
> First off, I am not doing everything I possibly can not to pay the debt, I absoltley *90% intend to repay it*, its is money I owe, and there is no question about that.



Lets not split hairs here-you were by your own words casual and not 'blameless' this debt. The amount is irrelevant to how you treat it. Thats how I see it anyway.


----------



## Wexfordman (16 Jun 2013)

Luternau said:


> From your post;
> 
> 
> 
> Lets not split hairs here-you were by your own words casual and not 'blameless' this debt. The amount is irrelevant to how you treat it. Thats how I see it anyway.




the 90% was a typo, fixed it. I fully intend to repay any debt owing, no question, no quibble, so whats the issue ?


----------



## Luternau (16 Jun 2013)

Absolutely no issue here! As I said, the amount does seem to be worth the issue you are making of it. You are not disputing it!


----------



## Wexfordman (16 Jun 2013)

Luternau said:


> Absolutely no issue here! As I said, the amount does seem to be worth the issue you are making of it. You are not disputing it!



No, 
The issue is getting a demand for money out of the blue and being expected to simply repay it without question. The issue is also, having a debt passed to a debt collection agency which appears to be completely in necessary. 

Is that clear enough, or is there something else I need to clarify, I think I've stated it enough times already


----------



## Luternau (17 Jun 2013)

I dont need any clarification at all. Hope it all works out fine for you!


----------



## Wexfordman (17 Jun 2013)

Luternau said:


> Absolutely no issue here! As I said, the amount does seem to be worth the issue you are making of it. *You are not disputing it!*



Well,I am,in that I have no idea if it is correct or not!


----------



## Gerry Canning (17 Jun 2013)

Wexfordman said:


> Well,I am,in that I have no idea if it is correct or not!


 To Luternau,

Wexfordman WILL pay when amount is properly documented.

Banks will always ADD on a few BOB here and there.!!
I have a feeling you still trust their accounting and their integrity.Hmn !!!


----------



## Luternau (17 Jun 2013)

salmon9077 said:


> To Luternau,
> 
> Wexfordman WILL pay when amount is properly documented.
> 
> ...



Less of the suspicion there-Trust me-I have no time for banks and can't see that changing anytime soon! Now it's between him and whomever the debt was with. Hope it works out well. I have no further interest in posting about this.


----------



## BazzaDP (17 Jun 2013)

Can see this thread getting out of hand here if we're not careful!

Wexford man, didn't mean to offend you I just wanted to point out that the debt (which you acknowledge though quite rightly want clarification as to the amount) is what is important here. Why it happened is a secondary issue and, as I read it, you seem pretty annoyed about that. You've got a point - it's not a nice implication that you don't pay your debts and by passing your debt to a debt collector that's what they have implied. I'm saying you need to put that aside and acknowledge Cabot and deal with them to get this sorted. You seem to have done that now and hopefully will get a breakdown of costs and can resolve this issue.

It is also worth pursuing Santandar for any additional costs since it seems they didn't do their best to chase down the debt themselves and have caused you this distress but, as you were also partially at fault, you may not have luck here. It could be Santandar screwed up here (companies make mistakes too believe it or not!) or it could be you missed a letter or two.

I think the advice to ignore any correspondence from them was bad advice. Companies are fully in their right to sell on debt and ultimately it's in your best interest to sort things out like this.

Anyway, it seems you're making progress now so good luck in getting it resolved and let us know how you get on.


----------



## Gerry Canning (18 Jun 2013)

Luternau said:


> Less of the suspicion there-Trust me-I have no time for banks and can't see that changing anytime soon! Now it's between him and whomever the debt was with. Hope it works out well. I have no further interest in posting about this.


 Sorry Luternau on my Hmn!!! comment, didn,t mean to insult you.

In my defence , I still note people still trust Banks , that is a definate Hmn !!!

Regards, Salmon.


----------



## Wexfordman (27 Jun 2013)

BazzaDP said:


> Can see this thread getting out of hand here if we're not careful!
> 
> Wexford man, didn't mean to offend you I just wanted to point out that the debt (which you acknowledge though quite rightly want clarification as to the amount) is what is important here. Why it happened is a secondary issue and, as I read it, you seem pretty annoyed about that. You've got a point - it's not a nice implication that you don't pay your debts and by passing your debt to a debt collector that's what they have implied. I'm saying you need to put that aside and acknowledge Cabot and deal with them to get this sorted. You seem to have done that now and hopefully will get a breakdown of costs and can resolve this issue.
> 
> ...



Hi Bazza,

No offence taken, sorry if I was a bit short to anyone in my replies.

Anyway, update, I sent cabot an email just over a week ago, asking them for a breakdown of the amount owed, including a statement of the account (amount outstanding, payments made etc), and also an overview of what prompted debenhams to pass on the debt. They replied and said they would get the information as requested, and get back to me.

In the post this morning, I received from cabot, a printout of what "seems" to be a balance. There are some very odd things:-

1)  The balance states that I owe 201 stg,
2) There is a late payment fee of 15.24 and interest of 1.8, and this was dated 4th feb.
3) We made 2 payments post 4th feb 2013, and these are not referenced or shown.
4) The payments we made were via cheque, one was sent in feb and was cashed end of April....the other was sent mid jan and cashed 8th feb


I know there were additional payments made, I made them over the phone late 2012, and agreed their and then that they could debit that card monthly, which they did not appear to do.


----------



## Gerry Canning (27 Jun 2013)

As I see it they want money, you accept you owe £???.

You havn,t got clarity from Cabot , what you were sent was a (wish and hope) print out that has minimal validity.

Can I suggest write to them and WITHOUT PREJUDICE offer say 50 in full and final of any supposed Debt as a token to have them go away.

Either that or ignore them.

Keep me posted , please.


----------



## Wexfordman (10 Jul 2014)

*update*

I received no further correspndence from cabot after I asked them for a statement of what was owed before I pay it. The last correspondence was last year when they said the woudl get back to me in ten days. I never followed it up after this (in retrospect I should have, as you will see).

Went to my bank yesterday to apply for a personal loan (car replacement), and it turns out that this has now appeared on the ICB list!! So my loan application is now on hold, for a vehcile I was supposed to collect tomorrow). It will take a few days to get it sorted, but I imagine it will be approved.

Anyway, it seems the 114 euro was written off and recorded on the ICB as a bad debt against me!! Im surprised this was done without my knowledge, considering also the last correspondence I had from cabot was that they would get back to me with a statement, and they never did!!

i now have a bad credit rating!! For 114 euro against me that I jsut wanted a statement on before I paid it!!


----------



## Gerry Canning (10 Jul 2014)

Wexfordman said:


> I received no further correspndence from cabot after I asked them for a statement of what was owed before I pay it. The last correspondence was last year when they said the woudl get back to me in ten days. I never followed it up after this (in retrospect I should have, as you will see).
> 
> Went to my bank yesterday to apply for a personal loan (car replacement), and it turns out that this has now appeared on the ICB list!! So my loan application is now on hold, for a vehcile I was supposed to collect tomorrow). It will take a few days to get it sorted, but I imagine it will be approved.
> 
> ...


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 The Debt should have been on your ICB long before Cabot got involved.
If you send 6 euro and form to Irish Credit Bureau (you can print them off their site) you will get a breakdown of your Icb .
If it is a case that Cabot added pending clarification you can put note in to explain.


----------



## Wexfordman (12 Jul 2014)

Well that's interesting.just got turned down for a small loan from my own bank! Loan would have been approved internally bit because of the icb they had to get approval outside of the branch.

They said they would loan it if I used my savings ad collateral! But I said my savings were fir a rainy day so didn't want to lock it away. In any case why would I borrow money and pay interest on it at the same time as putting my savings beyond reach.

It's ridiculous, I earn well over twice the AIW I have no debts apart from my very low mortgage (it costs a bit .ore than my esb Bill), I have my own house, two kids been with my bank for fifteen years and my employer for 18 years.

And I got refused on a loan that is just over a months wages.

How the he'll does anyone get credit in this country. That's my car purchase down the drain


----------

