# Advice needed re setting up small self-administered pension.



## MikeM (14 Oct 2011)

Advice needed please.

I have been made redundant recently and started my own business which I’m happy to say has been going well. I recently was looking at what to do with my pension from my previous employment and have decided that I would like to invest in a property in Dublin as part of my pension plan. Keeping all the arms lenght rules of course. The property in mind would be a 2 bed flat that could be rented and all rent minus management fees would accumulate into the fund.

From my limited understanding and research I believe in order to do this I would have to set up a Small Self Administered Pension (SSAP). What I wondering about is the administration/trustees fees to expect in setting this up and if there are any entry fees ? Who are the players in the market ? What to look out for ? All advise and pointers welcome.

MikeM


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## LDFerguson (17 Oct 2011)

There are actually two related methods of doing this - a self-directed fund and a self-administered one. Although these terms are sometimes interchanged, my rough definitions of each would be: - 

Self-Directed - You set up a policy with an insurance company who has self-directed capabilities, e.g. Irish Life, who look after all the documentation. You then instruct Irish Life to use your fund to buy assets of your choosing, e.g. property, shares, ETFs, funds, deposits etc. As charging is percentage-based, this route tends to be cheaper than self-administered for smaller funds (<€250,000) but it's a little bit more restrictive in that you must use the insurance company's professional team - solicitors, property managers, stockbrokers etc. For property purchase, Standard Life & Irish Life are the main players. 

Self-Administered - You set up a bespoke trust for you and you alone, using the services of a pensioneer trustee. You can use whatever related professionals you want. Typically, self-administered funds tend to be charged on a flat fee basis, making them cheaper for larger funds. Think ball-park €2,000 - €2,500 to set one up and the bones of €2,000 per year to maintain and you wouldn't be a million miles out. Such fees would be separate from any transaction costs you then incur by your investment decision, e.g. solicitor, valuation etc. 

Regards, 

Liam D. Ferguson


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## MikeM (17 Oct 2011)

Thanks Liam. 

MikeM


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## 8till8 (18 Oct 2011)

> the bones of €2,000 per year to maintain



Some trustee companies are charging annual fee's on a "funds under management" basis which is ridiculous since the member nearly always acts as the investment manager. 
The trustee companies job is to "protect the revenue interest" so why would the charge on this basis? (except that they get away with it)


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## murp (19 Oct 2011)

The trustee company's job is to 

1. act as pensioneer trustee (it is a revenue obligation to have one on a self administered pension scheme),
2. act as registered administrator of the scheme
3. administer the scheme in accordance with revenue rules
4. prepare annual accounts for the scheme, annual benefit statements, statements of reasonable projection, file eurostat returns etc
5. hold the assets in the name of the scheme
5. deal with the client and revenue

its not as simple as saying that their job is to 'protect the revenue interest'


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