# Help - Management Co. keeps raising charges!



## Capricorn 1 (30 Jul 2008)

Bought an apartment in April 2007 and was told that annual service charge would be €950 (€850 + €100 for car space).  Then got a letter to say this was wrong and the charge was €1,140, which I paid.  In the meantime one individual purchased 10 unsold apartments in the block and arranged some deal with the developer regarding the management of the block.  He has put a new Management Co./Agent in place.  There was an AGM last December, to which I was not invited and I understand that others were not invited either.  I requested and got the Minutes of this AGM.
Got a shock this year, request for half yearly service charge of €935 which included €300 for capital shortfall for lift repairs. There was no mention of this in the AGM Minutes or agreement to raise fees.  I have written repeatedly to Management Co. by registered post for clarification and got no replies, only further demands for the service charge.  Surely, I am entitled to have my questions answered before I pay?  Also, am I liable for the cost of repairs to the lifts which arose prior to my ownership of the property in April 2007?  All help/advice will be gratefully received?


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## purpeller (30 Jul 2008)

You certainly are entitled to have your questions answered but your position will be stronger if you pay your service charge.  More serious is the issue that you were not invited to the AGM.  The management company needs to have one annually and every owner in the complex must receive 21 days notice in writing about it.  You should take a look at Robert Gogan's book on apartment living in Ireland to deal with your specific queries.  As regards the management agent not responding - have you tried contacting the directors of the MC?  You can get their names from the CRO website if you don't already know who they are.


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## ClubMan (30 Jul 2008)

www.consumerconnect.ie has some useful info for people living in privately managed developments.


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## Capricorn 1 (31 Jul 2008)

Thanks for the advice - will try and contact one of the directors of the Management Co.


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## mercman (31 Jul 2008)

Capricorn -- how many apartments are there in the block. asically does the Investor that bought the 10 apartments own a majority. If he doesn't then he is not in a position to dictate without an overall majority of owners.  How old is the block ?? If it is a new bbuild the developer might be liable for the Lift sum which the owners hae been lumbered with.


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## Capricorn 1 (1 Aug 2008)

The Investor who bought 10 apartments doesn't own a majority.  The problem is that I don't know any of the other owners so that we could get together to address the matter. Hoping to meet up with some of them at the next AGM, if I'm invited, if not I'll be lodging a complaint to the Companies Office.  I was thinking of paying the maintenance fee minus the €300 for lift repairs until I can ascertain if these repairs took place during my ownership of the apartment.


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## Capricorn 1 (1 Aug 2008)

Forgot to mention the capital shortfall for lift repairs arose as a result of vandalisation of the lifts.  In my letter to the management company (to which I didn't get a reply) I asked if the matter had been pursued through Insurance channels.


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## mercman (1 Aug 2008)

I would suggest you try to make contact with the other owners ASAP. Have you tried knocking on any of the doors ?? If they are let the tenants may give you the details of the owners. It would be best to deal with these matters as a Group rather than individually.


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## markpb (1 Aug 2008)

Capricorn 1 said:


> There was an AGM last December, to which I was not invited and I understand that others were not invited either.  I requested and got the Minutes of this AGM.



You need to complain to the ODCE about this. The CRO won't be able to help you. Expect them to take at least two weeks to confirm that they've received your complaint form.



> Also, am I liable for the cost of repairs to the lifts which arose prior to my ownership of the property in April 2007?


You're liable for any costs incurred while you are an owner. The date the lifts are broken means nothing, only the date that the repairs have to be paid for. It's possible that the lifts broke but there wasn't enough money to pay for the repairs so they had to wait till the start of the next financial year. Like you said though, they should definitely have claimed from the block insurance policy.



Capricorn 1 said:


> I was thinking of paying the maintenance fee minus the €300 for lift repairs until I can ascertain if these repairs took place during my ownership of the apartment.



I know it's very frustrating when they're not answering your questions and not being very transparent but withholding fees won't get you anywhere. The managing agent will just hand your file off to a debt collection agency and forget about you. If you will are notified of the next AGM, you won't be entitled to a vote.


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## mercman (1 Aug 2008)

Have you seen sight or details of the Insurance Policy. If you have a mortgage these details should have been provided before the mortgage monies were issued.


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## Capricorn 1 (1 Aug 2008)

Thanks for all the advice.  Managed to get hold of one of the Directors who contacted the Management Agent on my account and I have been assured of an answer to my letter.  I was also told that an AGM is imminent.  Hopefully, the matter can be resolved/clarified and I can meet up with some of the other owners - as you say its better to tackle these issues as a group.


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## mercman (1 Aug 2008)

Remember to ask the question as to why the MC was changed without a vote of all the owners. Also you will need to read the Memorndum and Articles of Association of the MC to see what can and can't be done. In normal cases Managing Agents cannot be changed without consultation with all the owners.


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## Capricorn 1 (1 Aug 2008)

Good advice - will check the Memorandum and Articles of Association.  In this case there was not a change of Management Company - this was the first Management Co. that was put in place - before that it was still in the hands of the Developer.


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## markpb (2 Aug 2008)

mercman said:


> Remember to ask the question as to why the MC was changed without a vote of all the owners.



The management company cannot be changed, only the managing agent. Since the agent is just another contractor hired by the directors, they can terminate the contract and hire a new one any time they like. I've never seen any company documents or lease agreements specify otherwise.


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## ClubMan (2 Aug 2008)

What about where some developments are managed by a management company controlled totally or mainly by the developer but the management company is eventually handed over to the residents once the development has completed? That sort of change in control of the company might be considered a change in the management company?


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## markpb (2 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> What about where some developments are managed by a management company controlled totally or mainly by the developer but the management company is eventually handed over to the residents once the development has completed? That sort of change in control of the company might be considered a change in the management company?



I guess it could, I wouldn't normally  The company is always made up of the developer and other owners. Initially, the board of directors is only the developers, later on it's the owners but the company remains the same. In any event, my point was that the agent can be changed by the directors, just like the waste disposal company.


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## mercman (4 Aug 2008)

And the MC can be changed by order of a vote of the property owners. The developers have no interest in managing a block of apartments and the sooner they pass it off to others, the better for them.


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## mousey (7 Aug 2008)

I too had similar issues when living in an apartment complex. There is one key thing you need to continue to do. Record all communication that you have with MC and try to stick to letters and email as phonecalls are harder to track. If you have an outstanding query that you have brought to their attention you do not have to pay until you are satisfied with the reply, well that was the case for us. Also I would recommend that you get to know a few of your neighbours. We logged onto neighbours.ie ( no affiliation) and found some of our neighbours. This resulted in us finding out some interesting facts about our complex and what different people were being told. Prior to knowledge of the website a neighbour sent around a simple leaflet asking if any residents were interested in meeting up to discuss the property. Some great social events came out of both and a greater sense of security. 
Wish you the best of luck.


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## shesells (7 Aug 2008)

mousey said:


> If you have an outstanding query that you have brought to their attention you do not have to pay until you are satisfied with the reply, well that was the case for us.


 
This is a dangerous attitude to take. It is generally the management agents who deal with the replies and some are more efficient than others. However the management company need fees in to cover basics like refuse, insurance, public area lighting. Witholding fees actually hurts you as an owner. Your issue is generally with the agent who are simply employees of the company.

In our development we have owner directors and any issues are generally emailed to them and they put more pressure on the management agent to deal with the problems.... they seem to be taken more seriously by the agent too!


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## Capricorn 1 (8 Aug 2008)

Latest development - instead of getting the promised reply to my letter, I received a final demand for the service charge.  I have paid this amount as I don't want to incur any further charges.  My plan now, is to make a complaint to the ODCE regarding my not being invited to the AGM.  I'll try to contact some of the other owners (difficult as I live in Dublin and the apartment is in the south of the country and most of the apartments are let out).  I fully intend to pursue this matter as I don't trust this company.


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## mousey (8 Aug 2008)

In our case the management company had directors appointed without any knowledge to residents/owners. We too were not notified of initial AGM where these directors were supposedly elected. A group of residents attempted to contact them once we were provided with names and even then no one was able to contact those that were appointed (either not at addresses provided or simply not interested in replying or had requested they be allowed to step down but were never removed from listing). We had major issues whereby supplement charges were sent and payment expected due to non payment from other residents/landlords. As is standard the good residents would pay but in our case we paid the majority but then it simply became too much and we werent seeing any change in the complex. When we investigated it further with the MC they informed us that we could hold our payment until our questions had been answered, I was sure to have a record or this, mind you.


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## markpb (8 Aug 2008)

Capricorn 1 said:


> I'll try to contact some of the other owners (difficult as I live in Dublin and the apartment is in the south of the country and most of the apartments are let out).  I fully intend to pursue this matter as I don't trust this company.



Most managing agents will deny this but as a shareholder, the company secretary (typically the agent) must supply you with the names and addresses of all the other shareholders. Some will have their addresses as the apartment even if they've moved out but it might help get you off the ground.


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## mousey (8 Aug 2008)

Keep up the fight! Information will come eventually. Again look into neighbours.ie and see if your complex has been set up. If not maybe you should try set it up and then do a leaflet drop in the complex advising people of the forum for chat on the complex. Not sure if it will help but it could get the ball rolling and get you in touch with both residents landlords and owner/occupiers. Always good to see if you can see issues from all points of view.


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