# Start Mortgages buys ptsb loans



## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2018)

Check out this Key Post: 
*Which ptsb mortgages have been sold?*

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0731/982258-ptsb-loans-mortgage/

Permanent TSB has agreed to sell its controversial Project Glas loan portfolio to Start Mortgages - an affiliate of the so-called vulture fund Lone Star - for around €1.3 billion.

The portfolio contains around 10,700 non-performing loans, 7,400 of which are owner-occupier mortgages.

PTSB said of the 7,400 owner-occupier mortgages, 2,500 of those accounts are classified as "not co-operating", adding a further 3,850 accounts have either "refused treatments" or "the account has failed to operate in line with the agreed 'Treatment'".


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2018)

This is an interesting development.

1) Investec sold the company, Start Mortgages, to Lone Star in Sept 2014 
2) Start sold its performing mortgages to Bank of Ireland in Sept 2016 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boi-buys-up-start-loans-off-lone-star-bp6cp2zln
3) Now Start has bought more non-peforming loans from ptsb.

My gut feeling is that Start is more efficient at managing defaulting loans than ptsb and so may be able to get better outcomes for themselves and for the borrowers.

Brendan


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## Bellewell (1 Aug 2018)

Hi there 

Does anyone know if split mortgages are included or accounts that are currently in legal proceedings against the bank re tracker issues, in the sale? All articles are a bit wishy washy or is it a case of wait and see if a letter drops?


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## Nick roo (1 Aug 2018)

I rang ptsb I am not included, they said letters are going out tomorrow to those who have been sold


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Aug 2018)

Hi Bellewell 

The performing split mortgages were removed from the sale.

But if you have a split which is in deep arrears you are probably included. 

The tracker one is interesting. It would be difficult for them to sell a mortgage subject to legal proceedings. But maybe they have done so. 

Brendan


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## Bellewell (1 Aug 2018)

Gave them a bell today and we are not included, was all geared up for the usual we can’t tell you but you will receive a letter soon if you are script but was a simple no your not included.


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## Maz2408 (2 Aug 2018)

I have two buy to lets with PTSB, one approx 80k negative equity the other approx 45k negative, I have interest only splits on both for past 3 years, all agreed payments made since then. It took two years of stress and anxiety which nearly ended my life to finally agree a workable split as PTSB kept changing their mind.  Around 60% of both mortgages are warehoused for the forseeable so I assume these mortgages are classed as non performing.  I haven't recieved a letter yet, but again the stress and anxiety is terrible, I can't imagine what it's like for those who are trying to stay in their homes.  Regardless of what happens I think it is absolutely disgusting that 1000,s of homeowners weren't contacted by PTSB about the sale of their mortgage before they went public with it.


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## Theonlywayisup (2 Aug 2018)

First time poster but hoping I get more answers here than I did with the bank. Have arrears on mortgage. Have been in treatments with the bank. Last treatment ended in June. Was in position to pay repayments in full and a little extra. Call last week saying they are happy with this. Called today as still had not recieved paperwork for new restructure. They said posting today. I asked if they knew if I was affected by sale. They confirmed I was. Long story short nobody could tell me that at the end of the 6 months agreement to put permanent restructure in place if start have to honour it. Ptsb said they don't know and might be Tuesday before I have an answer. 
Can anyone tell me if at the end of the 6months trial if start will implement the restructure PTSB offered.


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## gahfan (2 Aug 2018)

Phoned p tsb and I'm not one of those affected thankfully. I'm in a tracker dispute, maybe that was a factor, I must admit it caused me some worry and not to say am out of the woods yet, best of luck to all involved.


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## gahfan (2 Aug 2018)

said to me letters going out today btw


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> They confirmed I was. Long story short nobody could tell me that at the end of the 6 months agreement to put permanent restructure in place if start have to honour it.



The sale of your mortgage does not affect any legal agreements you have. 

So if you have been offered and if you have accepted a permanent restructure and if you are adhering to the terms it will not be affected.

Likewise, if you are in a temporary restructure for 6 months, Start will honour that. However, when it's up Start will deal with you rather than ptsb.

Brendan


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## Theonlywayisup (2 Aug 2018)

Thanks for that Brendan.

So basically the 6month period the bank are getting us to sign (it was with a view to the permanent rrstuctrest being put in place once 6 months were up) is all we get.

If the bank were willing to put this agreement in place after 6 months what are the chances of Start allowing what the bank proposed. 

I'm feeling sick at the thought of finally getting it sorted only to have to start again with the stress and worry. 

Will it stand to the case that we have been engaging, paying something, and bank had been willing to work with us?


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Aug 2018)

Yes, you are just entering into a 6 month agreement. Unless they write into the agreement "At the end of the 6 months, we will capitalise the arrears and extend the term by 5 years...". 

Start is interested in turning non-performing loans into performing loans. So there is a good chance that you will get a deal and in time, your performing mortgage will be sold on again to someone like Bank of Ireland. 

Start sold some of its performing mortgages to Bank of Ireland in 2016


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## Theonlywayisup (2 Aug 2018)

Brendan that's a good read in the yimes. Gives me a little hope. 

Thanks for your response to me.

One last question. I have a tracker. Is this something that they can take from us?


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## Cgleeson (2 Aug 2018)

So phoned today letter in post confirming are mortgage was included in sale I stupidly believed we would be ok because we have been honouring a split agreement with the bank for over a year is there any hope of keeping this split im so confused getting diffrent answers from sorces do start have an obligation.to keep.this agreement the IMHO have told me yes but other sources no im.beyond devasted to start this battle all over again can someone explain why some splits were included reading from.above it May be due to.having arrears on the loan


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> I have a tracker. Is this something that they can take from us?



No.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Cgleeson said:


> May be due to.having arrears on the loan



Performing split mortgages on family homes were not sold. It had been planned to sell them but they changed their mind. (performing split mortgages on buy to lets were sold.) 

If they have given you a split mortgage and you have fallen into arrears, then it's a non-peforming loan and so it has been sold.

Your split will be for a period of three years and then reviewed. Start will review it in time.

Of course, in the meantime, if you are in arrears on a split mortgage, it's very likely that your mortgage is not sustainable.

Brendan


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## Maz2408 (3 Aug 2018)

I'm shocked, just recieved post.  PTSB have sold my restructured BTL mortgages which is dissapointing as we've been on restructure for 3 years.  The shock is they've also sold my Home mortgage, no arrears, no problems making payments has never been in any trouble in fact home mortgage has a small amount pre-paid.  Why would they have done this?


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

They probably look at the overall account as non performing. 

You have nothing to worry about if you are meeting the terms of your restructure. 

There is a small chance that Start might do a deal with you on the Buy to Let. 

Brendan


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## Jim Stafford (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> I have a tracker. Is this something that they can take from us?



The PTSB loan sale comprised of 7,400 owner-occupier mortgages and 3,300 buy to let mortgages.  Tracker mortgages may not be taken away on family homes, but may be taken away on buy to lets.

If anyone is concerned about losing their family home, they should really go and see a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.  Personal Insolvency Arrangements have now been retied and tested before the High Court.  One of the primary purposes of the Personal Insolvency Act 2012 is to keep people in their family homes.

I suspect that many of the loans sold will have been in arrears as at 1 January 2015, which gives the home owner an even greater chance of getting a PIA through the system, as they would be eligible for a "No Veto PIA".  (See other posts on "No Veto PIA" on this forum.)  There have been great deals arranged with PIA's, with mortgages extended to age 75, interest rates reduced, arrears capitalised, negative equity written off etc.

Jim Stafford


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## Maz2408 (3 Aug 2018)

@Brendan Burgess : the confusion for myself and many others is what exactly is performing and non performing.  I assumed that my Home mortgage was safe as it has never been in arrears, I was hoping that an agreed restructure where full payments had been made since it was put in place was also classed as performing on BTLs but negative equity brought doubts. My home mortgage has never been non performing, it is not tied in anyway to the BTL investment mortgages, I wonder how many other People recieved letters this morning saying their home mortgages are being sold even though they have no arrears and no missed payments.


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## Theonlywayisup (3 Aug 2018)

Thanks Brendan.


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## Theonlywayisup (3 Aug 2018)

Jim Stafford thank you for your reply. Yes this is our family home, so assume tracker is safe. I will do some research as to the PIA. Not sure if I would be suitable for it however. We had been in a position with a lot of unsecured debt. All has now been paid off and the only lending we have now is the mortgage. Before it was difficult. Now we can meet the full repayment. I'm hoping this stands to us when we need to deal with Start.
Is it something whereby even if it is affordable for full payment they will demand arrears? The arrears are 13k so I I know that this amount is by no means little but also probably not the worst. 
We do not have a lavish lifestyle. No holidays, 11 year old car. We have worked to try and pay something even when we had nothing. We are happy to even pay approximately €100 extra on top of our monthly payment. I am strongly hoping we can come to an arrangement with Start so we have a positive outcome


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Maz2408 said:


> My home mortgage has never been non performing, it is not tied in anyway to the BTL investment mortgages,



Hi Maz

They are tied in that they share a common borrower.

Your story shows why they both had to be sold. You prioritised one loan over the other. So you could have continued prioritising your family home with ptsb while defaulting on your loan with Start.  As Start have both your loans, they can now look at the full picture with you. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> We had been in a position with a lot of unsecured debt. All has now been paid off



As a matter of interest, who advised you to  pay off your unsecured loans ahead of the loans secured on your family home?

Brendan


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## Theonlywayisup (3 Aug 2018)

When we both ended up unemployed we ended up falling behind in our unsecured debt as well as our mortgage. We made payment plans and arrangements on all our debt at the time. It worked out that loans we should have payed off years ago were only cleared in the past few months. Credit card had the highest rate and so we threw as much money at that as we could and closed the account. Put that money toward mortgage. First loan paid back, put that money toward what we were paying back on mortgage. Second loan same. So on. We always talked to PTSB about our situation. Always engaged. There was always an end sight with the loans. I wish now we had said no to paying them. I had been living the dream that we would be much better off just paying a mortgage. No loans. Out of the hole we were in.


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## Maz2408 (3 Aug 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> You prioritised one loan over the other


I didn't prioritise my home loan, PTSB did, at all stages of lengthy negotiation when I could no longer make full payments on all morgages, PTSB encouraged and often insisted that I continue to make full payments on home mortgage whilst they looked at restructuring Buy to Lets.  I put forward many options for extending term of Home mortgage thus reducing home mortgage payments to allow making full payments on at least 1 of the Buy to Lets.  I know it's all irrelivant now, hindsight, I should have abandoned buy to lets years ago, but as usual People who tried to do the right thing get shafted.


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## Jim Stafford (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> I will do some research as to the PIA. Not sure if I would be suitable for it however.



Start Mortgages will be very assertive early on.  They will insist that you pay off the arrears etc.  if Start is your only creditor, then hopefully they will deal with you so that you are not obliged to go down a costly PIA route.  However, a PIA would be your fall back position.

Jim Stafford


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Maz2408 said:


> I should have abandoned buy to lets years ago, but as usual People who tried to do the right thing get shafted.



Not really. If you had a shortfall when you abandoned them, you would have still been liable for it.  

You should set out all the details in this format in a new thread and you might get some useful suggestions 

*Information required for mortgage arrears and negative equity questions*

Brendan


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## Theonlywayisup (3 Aug 2018)

Thanks for advice. Can I ask. If I sign the 6month agreement with PTSB and Start do not have to honour putting us on permanent restructure at the end of it would I be better to not sign it. Pay the extra money €100aprox per month off the mortgage and deal directly with Start for restructure. Would it mean any extra would be paid off arrears balance where as PTSB agreement would be just paying what they are billing for? 
To be honest I am a fish out of water with all of this. I think I should speak to a financial advisor. Could anyone advise how much this would cost


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## PadKiss (3 Aug 2018)

Hi All
One aspect of this that is not yet addressed is that all split arrangements have a review date when the entire arrangement is up for review. I dont expect this to be easy for investors if the value of the property represents an immediate return of profit to the Vulture Fund. A short term return is their mantra despite all that is being said to the opposite at present, for all Vulture funds. While the protections are in place for homeowners not so with Investors. Padraic


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## Theonlywayisup (3 Aug 2018)

The dreaded letter just dropped. Is there a reason why they would send this letter in my name and not my partners name also. All other correspondence has been in both our names. Why now only send the letter to me?


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> If I sign the 6month agreement with PTSB and Start do not have to honour putting us on permanent restructure at the end of it would I be better to not sign it.



No. If you get a 6 month agreement, then sign it and stick to it. 

If you can demonstrate that your mortgage is sustainable, then it's very likely that Start will give you a sustainable long-term solution. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> Why now only send the letter to me?



Clerical error which is of no material importance. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

PadKiss said:


> One aspect of this that is not yet addressed is that all split arrangements have a review date when the entire arrangement is up for review.



Thanks Padraic

I have expanded this post to include that point:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/which-ptsb-mortgages-have-been-sold.209145/#post-1577860


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## Cgleeson (3 Aug 2018)

Hi Brendan we have no arrears on the split we have never missed  a payment on.the split this is a family home our loan including arrears was 225k they split 150k which is what we are making payments on and the balance  75kwas warehoused are we considered non performaning as we had arrears before we got the restructured split


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## 3blondes (3 Aug 2018)

Hi
Got letter this morning our mortgage Is being transferred to Start Mortgages. The mortgage is a family home. We are 4 months into an 18 month agreement with PTSB were we are overpaying by 496 every month to clear arrears. 
Am I right in saying that Start will continue with this agreement and once the arrears are cleared we will revert back to normal payments and our home will be safe?
Stressed out here and cannot face ringing either PTSB or Start today to query this do am hoping someone has an idea.
We have a tracker - not a very good one but would like to hold onto it!
Thanks.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

If your mortgage has not been in arrears since you got the split and if it's your family home and if you don't have an investment property, then it should not have been included. 

But if you had a split and went into arrears and then they restructured it again, they probably have sold it.

Start a new thread and provide all this information and you may get some ideas: 

* Information required for mortgage arrears and negative equity questions*
Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2018)

3blondes said:


> Am I right in saying that Start will continue with this agreement and once the arrears are cleared we will revert back to normal payments and our home will be safe?



If you have an 18 month agreement, Start will honour it.
If you have no arrears at the end of the 18 months, there will be no issue. 
You will keep your tracker as it's contractual. 

But I suggested to you over 6 months ago to provide all the information and you didn't bother. 

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/arrears-and-repossession-letter.206147/

Brendan


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## 3blondes (3 Aug 2018)

Thanks for coming back to me. I didn't come back as have been finding it all very stressful and hard to face, not the best approach I know. Am hoping now we are finally getting back on track so that is great news that it will be honoured. Thanks again.


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## Starboy (4 Aug 2018)

Got mortgage with TSB in 2006. My wife lost her job a few years ago and eventually found part time work but at that stage we were not able to meet the full mortgage payment so instead focussed on throwing as much as we could off arrears and then paid as much as we could off mortgage payment when due. I also had times when I didn't always have regular work which affected mortgage payment. We have since both got into a better situation financially and put in place promise to pay agreements with the bank where I rang them to arrange and we have got our arrears right down. I rang them again on Tues this week and agreed to up my mortgage payment by 203 euro a month (& full payment every month) for 16 payments until it's cleared , I gave my card details to arrange a new direct debit and was happy that all was being worked out with the bank.
At no point was I told that our mortgage would be sold to Start. I gave them over 1000 euro over the phone that day!
I missed payments over the years and struggled to pay full amount but would always pay what we could. Then got letter yesterday saying that our mortgage is being sold to Start mortgages. I found this very sly and underhanded that I was not told that this would happen. I also have the ability to clear all arrears now (€2400). Is there any possible way that it could be stopped from being taken over by Start at this stage?


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## Bronte (4 Aug 2018)

Jim Stafford said:


> The PTSB loan sale comprised of 7,400 owner-occupier mortgages and 3,300 buy to let mortgages.  Tracker mortgages may not be taken away on family homes, but may be taken away on buy to lets.
> 
> If anyone is concerned about losing their family home, they should really go and see a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.  Personal Insolvency Arrangements have now been retied and tested before the High Court.  One of the primary purposes of the Personal Insolvency Act 2012 is to keep people in their family homes.
> 
> ...



I think you said you charge around 5k and I’d say with deals like that which you’ve managed to achieve it would be money well spent by posters on here who have been burying their heads in the sand.

But it’s also good to see many posters have come to arrangements and are getting back on track.


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## Bronte (4 Aug 2018)

Maz2408 said:


> I'm shocked, just recieved post.  PTSB have sold my restructured BTL mortgages which is dissapointing as we've been on restructure for 3 years.  The shock is they've also sold my Home mortgage, no arrears, no problems making payments has never been in any trouble in fact home mortgage has a small amount pre-paid.  Why would they have done this?


Odd that you’ve overpaid on your home loan while being in trouble on the BTL.


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## Bronte (4 Aug 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If you have an 18 month agreement, Start will honour it.
> If you have no arrears at the end of the 18 months, there will be no issue.
> You will keep your tracker as it's contractual.
> 
> ...


It is amazing how many posters are desperate yet will not fill out that link. Then they wonder why the banks sell on the loans. Clearly some do not engage with their banks and that’s why PTSB has finally given up and sold on a load of loans. Obviously to do so they had to make it interesting to Start so it’s packaged up with loans that arrangements are in place for or are back on track, or nearly back on track.


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## Bronte (4 Aug 2018)

PadKiss said:


> Hi All
> One aspect of this that is not yet addressed is that all split arrangements have a review date when the entire arrangement is up for review. I dont expect this to be easy for investors if the value of the property represents an immediate return of profit to the Vulture Fund. A short term return is their mantra despite all that is being said to the opposite at present, for all Vulture funds. While the protections are in place for homeowners not so with Investors. Padraic


You mean they will sell if there is equity? Is it easy for them to do so? I presume rising property prices right now is good for Start in these cases.


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## Bronte (4 Aug 2018)

PatrickJ said:


> Thanks Brendan for the work / help put into this thread; much appreciated.
> 
> Have I missed the boat or is there any chance at this late stage of renegotiating with the lender i.e. to keep the loan in their hands rather than Starts.  It's funny as only two weeks ago I spoke with the lender about clearing off the arrears but there was never any mention of the loan being sold.


Did you pay the 600 yesterday?  How much is the rent and how much are the monthly mortgage repayments.


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## Maz2408 (4 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> Odd that you’ve overpaid on your home loan while being in trouble on the BTL.


The overpayment is approximately €380 which was intended as a telephone payment on buy to let account several years ago before restructure.  PTSB arrears support unit put the payment against the wrong account and never transferred it even though I requested them to do so several times before Buy to Lets where restructured.  It's been sitting on my Home mortgage account as an overpayment ever since.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2018)

Starboy said:


> I missed payments over the years and struggled to pay full amount but would always pay what we could.



Hi Starboy

Unfortunately, this is typical of the mortgages they are selling. The administrative time taken up by ptsb on a loan such as this would be huge. 

If you clear your arrears, then it won't matter that your loan is sold to Start.  The only people who should be worried are those who are deep in arrears and were messing ptsb about. And those who have generous split mortgages. 

Brendan


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## Starboy (4 Aug 2018)

Hi Brendan,
Thanks for your reply. What can Start mortgages do to us that TSB couldn't? 
We are on a tracker mortgage, but my wife is worried that if the mortgage is being transferred to Start that we might be in a worse off financial situation.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Aug 2018)

It's a bit like having a landlord who is fair and doesn't chase you to hard for the rent. He sells the building to a different landlord who is not very nice.  But legally, nothing has changed. 

if you have a tracker, you will keep your tracker. 
If you make your repayments in full and have no arrears, nothing will change. 

Start might be more efficient at dealing with customers in arrears than ptsb. That means either working with them to restructure the mortgage, or in extreme cases, repossessing the property.  But it's almost impossible for a lender to repossess a family home from someone who can show the court that they are engaging and paying a meaningful amount. 

Brendan


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## Starboy (4 Aug 2018)

Thanks Brendan,
I really appreciate your honest feedback.
Great website by the way, I'm only a newbie


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## Maz2408 (4 Aug 2018)

Can rent reciever be appointed on Buy to Lets if current agreed payments are being met.  I'm past the 3 year review stage on restrurctured buy to lets, no review to date, all agreed payments up to date, but I assume Start will carry out a review in the near future.  Can they appoint rent reciever before that review.


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## Theonlywayisup (6 Aug 2018)

Thank you for all the help I got on this thread. 
We have signed our new 6 month agreement and will hopefully be able to deal with start in the new year positively.
Our trial arrangement sees us paying an extra approximately €60 per month (we had proposed €100) back to the bank on top of our full mortgage payment. Can anyone tell me if that 60 goes towards the arrears? 
The trial is looking at a permanent arrangement of a split mortgage where we would have a lump sum payment at the end of approximately 27k. 
I only ask as I would like to know if the arrears will reduce (I know not by alot) over the next 6 months of this agreement?


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Aug 2018)

Arrears is the amount due but not paid. 

So if your scheduled repayments were  €10,000 last year, but paid only €6,000, you are €4,000 in arrears. 

Likewise, if your scheduled repayments are €400 and you pay €460, then you are clearing the arrears. 

However, if your scheduled repayments are €600 and they agree to accept €400 for a trial period, then it's possible that your arrears are rising by €140 per month.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> The trial is looking at a permanent arrangement of a split mortgage where we would have a lump sum payment at the end of approximately 27k.



Unless the documentation of the temporary agreement includes a split at the end of it, then you can't be guaranteed this. 

A split mortgage is not a permanent arrangement. ptsb and all the banks except AIB, has a clause whereby it will be reviewed every three years. 

Brendan


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## Theonlywayisup (6 Aug 2018)

Thanks Brendan. No the full mortgage payment is 838 this includes our life cover. We will be paying back 900 for 6 months on trial arrangement. I was hoping although I know it's only a small sum that the extra would go to the arrears which seem to be the case. As we had offered to pay 950 I will br also putting aside the extra 50 and will build it up to also pay off the arrears. Any extra in fact we will be paying off the arrears. I just wanted to make sure that anything extra would be paid off them and not just sit as an over payment while arrangement was in place


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Aug 2018)

Theonlywayisup said:


> the full mortgage payment is 838 this includes our life cover.



OK, get a quote for the life cover. It's nearly always much dearer when you buy it from the lender. 

Brendan


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## Lindaloo84 (6 Aug 2018)

I am on a split mortgage 5 years.we have no arrears but we only pay 1/4 of what our mortgage should be. I haven't recieved a letter but haven't slept worrying. We have ptsb current accounts and I've just logged on and everything looks normal on our mortgage accounts. Anyone that has received a letter.. is your open 24 still listing your mortgage accounts? 
Thanks


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Aug 2018)

Lindaloo84 said:


> I am on a split mortgage 5 years.we have no arrears



Then your mortgage was not sold, unless it was associated with a non-performing  buy to let loan.

Brendan


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## Lindaloo84 (7 Aug 2018)

Great Thanks for the information


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## Jim Stafford (7 Aug 2018)

Maz2408 said:


> Can rent reciever be appointed on Buy to Lets if current agreed payments are being met.  I'm past the 3 year review stage on restrurctured buy to lets, no review to date, all agreed payments up to date, but I assume Start will carry out a review in the near future.  Can they appoint rent reciever before that review.



Start will be bound by the existing arrangement with PTSB. if you are due a review, then Start will carry out that review.  I suspect that if your buy to let loans are on a tracker that they would, at a minimum, insist on increasing the interest rate if you wish to keep the properties.  In the extreme case, they could "call" in the loan and appoint rent receivers.

They will assess each case on its own merits.

They are very unlikely to appoint a Receiver before they carry out a review. One area that Start will be wary of is that there is a possibility that they may not receive copies of all relevant files from PTSB. (There has been some notable High Court judgments involving other funds who made poor decisions based on incomplete documentation.) Our own experience of dealing with Start is that their staff are well trained and very methodical and logical in their approach.

It is important that you engage fully with Start and provide all of the information that they seek.  If you had a "genuine" dispute with PTSB then you should seek expert advice before providing any information to Start.

Jim Stafford


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## Delboy (8 Aug 2018)

Heard you on the radio this eve BB, arguing this sale with David Hall of IMHO. Thought you wiped the floor with him, especially with your opening piece.
You always know he's on the rocks when he starts resorting to calling those he's up against 'bank shills'!


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Aug 2018)

Thanks Delboy

He was talking absolute rubbish but people believe him. 

And the worst part was that he was scaring the daylights out of people. As if Start buying their mortgage was the end of the World. It's very irresponsible. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (9 Aug 2018)

Delboy said:


> Heard you on the radio this eve BB, arguing this sale with David Hall of IMHO. Thought you wiped the floor with him, especially with your opening piece.
> You always know he's on the rocks when he starts resorting to calling those he's up against 'bank shills'!


He called BB that. Wow.  What show was that so I can listen back please.


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## Bronte (9 Aug 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Thanks Delboy
> 
> He was talking absolute rubbish but people believe him.
> 
> ...



He's got this aura of being the people's champion is why.  He is very good at sounding credible against the big bad banks who are the enemy of the people. 

And him scaring people is clearly working as we have many new posters on here worried. 

So why does he do it, seeing as he knows otherwise. I guess it gets him publicity and attention but more importantly clients.


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## Delboy (9 Aug 2018)

It was on The Last Word between 5pm and 6pm yesterday


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## Bronte (9 Aug 2018)

Here's an article about Start and PTSB

https://www.independent.ie/business...ns-to-vulture-fund-insists-ptsb-37194790.html

PTSB says they didn't sell any unclean loans

_David Hall says this is untrue and that thousands (thousands???) of people have contracted him.  And he says PTSB are lying.  

A leading bank that sold thousands of mortgages to a US vulture fund has insisted it has not sold any clean loans._


However, mortgage debt campaigner David Hall has accused Permanent TSB of lying and claims the lender added performing home loans into the controversial sale.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Aug 2018)

Here is the link to the full programme. 

https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/listen-back

Our segment begins at 51.45 

Brendan


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## Maz2408 (9 Aug 2018)

Why were performing buy to let restructured loans sold? In my case offered and accepted restructure on buy to lets, €21,000 in arrears recapitalised as part of restructure, made every single payment in the 3 plus years since.  I would have thought that made my loans performing loans.

Quote from todays Irish Daily mirror.
Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe has claimed PTSB and other lenders are being pressurised by the European Central Bank to dump mortgages that are in arrears. But a letter published by Fianna Fail yesterday shows the ECB has issued no such order and has left it up the individual lenders as to how they deal the non-performing loans.


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## RedOnion (9 Aug 2018)

Maz2408 said:


> Why were performing buy to let restructured loans sold?


You are performing to the new terms, but based on ECB rules you are still non performing. Therefore the bank needs to hold extra capital against your mortgage.



Maz2408 said:


> But a letter published by Fianna Fail yesterday shows the ECB has issued no such order and has left it up the individual lenders as to how they deal the non-performing loans


A sentence in the letter is taken out of context. They didn't tell the banks how to reduce non performing balances, but they told them to reduce them.


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## John72 (21 Aug 2018)

Hi,first time posting,got the letter of the bank but I am in dispute with them over a tracker rate any idea where I stand on this.


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## Delboy (4 Sep 2018)

*Mortgage-holders caught up in PTSB loan sale to be invited to tell of the turmoil it has caused*
*Sinn Féin’s finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty said a full committee session should be dedicated to the loan book sale.*
http://www.thejournal.ie/ptsb-vulture-fund-sale-oireachtas-committee-4218130-Sep2018/


> Speaking at the party’s think-in in Cavan, Doherty said PTSB had failed its customers, and taken the easy option of selling to a vulture fund.
> 
> He said the government, who has a 75% shareholding in the bank, should have stopped the sale. Doherty added that vulture funds only have a “short-term interest” and therefore will not offer the same deals to customers as banks do.
> 
> Doherty said “victims of the sale” will be invited to give their testimony before the committee, stating that members should hear how this sale has impacted on them, “not  only on them personally, but also on their family”. He added that bank executives from PTSB will also be invited to attend.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Oct 2018)

I see that Start and ptsb will be before the Committee next Thursday.  Should be interesting. 

*09.30 Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach CR2, LH 2000*
(i) The purchase by Start Mortgages/Lone Star of property loans from Permanent TSB (Project Glas) and related matters
_Representatives from Start Mortgages_
(ii) The sale of property loans (Project Glas) by Permanent TSB and related matters.
_Representatives from Permanent TSB, Mr. Jeremy Masding, Chief Executive Officer_


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## WizardDr (11 Oct 2018)

Mr Masding appearing now.

Use of the words 'moral hazard' is the way PTSB are saying they couldn't do 'debt forgiveness' which he says customer doesn't contribute to whereas a write off the customer loses the security and a write off of the rest.

The moral hazard argument is another peddled myth that the first thing people did was 'default'. This is simply unsupported.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Oct 2018)

I have it here: 

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...inance-committee-on-the-sale-to-start.210006/


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