# Direct debit fraud, please help!



## jmra (8 Aug 2008)

Hello,
My girlfriend has got an account in Bank of Ireland but she is abroad at the moment and she would not be here during the next 10 days. The problem is that someone has taken 1000 euros from her account on the 17th of July and we have just realized about that. 

We would like to know what we can do now. We would really appreciate if any of you could help us. 

It has been almost 20 days from the transaction and we are not sure if we can cancel or what to do. The bank has just said the name of the account where the money went to but we do not know what to do.

Many thanks for any answer,
JM


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## GeneralZod (8 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

You say "someone", does this indicate that they are a party you did not fill out a direct debit mandate form for? Did you receive a statement indicating this money was to be debited from your account?

Under the terms of  



> If it is established that an unauthorised Direct Debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed a prompt refund by your Bank of the amount so charged.



If the terms have been violated hound the bank until you get your money back.


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## mathepac (8 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



jmra said:


> ... The bank has just said the name of the account where the money went to ...


Do you know what person or organisation controls the account the money went to?

If its a direct debit, ask the bank to see the original direct debit mandate, which must be signed by the account holder(s) / authorised signatory.


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## jmra (8 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

Thank you for your answers. I really apreciate them.

The bank has just told my girlfriend that they cant get the money back because the money has been already transfered.

They said the name of the person who received the money but we dont know him.

I didnt receive any statement indicating this money was to be debited from the account.

You tell me to ask the bank to see the original direct debit mandate but I dont know what it is, maybe coz im not an English native, sorry about it.

Many thaks for everything, many thanks.

-

I said in the first post that we had just realized about it. At the begining we thought that the money went to our landlord but we realized that it didnt, because the landlord told us that he didnt receive the money.

We suspect about the agency who rent our house.

The story is the next one:

We paid 1000 of deposit and 1000 for the first month to a guy from the agency. He told us to tell him the account number to get the money from each month rent. We gave it to him. It was on the 18th of July.

We saw that there was a bank payment of 1000 on the 17th of July. The payment that we thought that we paid to the landlord.

Some days ago the agency called us and tell that the landlord called them and he said that we didnt pay the rent.

We told the agency about the bank transaction and told them the name of the guy who received the money and they said that they didnt know him.


I know that the situation is complicated and my English grammar is not so good and I just want to say many thanks to the people who follow this post and try to help me.

JM


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## ClubMan (8 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



jmra said:


> I dont know what it is, maybe coz im not an English native, sorry about it.


Don't apologise - neither are most of the rest of us.


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## GeneralZod (8 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

This doesn't sound right.  If chancers could use direct debits to syphon money out of your account just by getting your account number they'd all be signing up as DD Originators to do it.

If there's an Originator abusing the system by collecting funds they're not entitled to notify IPSO immediately and don't let the bank shirk their responsibilities under the DD scheme.


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## jmra (9 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

Hi,

What are DD Originators? and IPSO? DD scheme?

Thank you


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## Brianne (9 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

Yes, I, also, would like to know what IPSO stands for. In the meantime I think the original poster should meet again with the bank and if they are unsure of their spoken English, bring a native speaker with them. If they did not sign any order for the direct debit, then the bank are liable for the mistake. Keep up the pressure on the bank and ask to speak to a manager.


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## eileen alana (9 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



Brianne said:


> Yes, I, also, would like to know what IPSO stands for.


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## Mpsox (11 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

IPSO is the Irish Payments Standards Organisation, it is a governance body, owned by the clearing banks which as part of it's remit, lays down rules that all the member bank abide by for things such as cheque clearing and direct debits

A DD should be supported by a signed form which the bank should have a copy of(not neccessarily in the branch)

Therefore you should
-ask for a copy of the DD form from the bank
-ask the bank to confirm if there is another DD to the same person due out this month
-if so, ask the bank to cancel the DD, you may be asked to put this in writing
-ask the bank for details of their customer complaints procedures.


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## Brianne (12 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*

Thanks for the replies


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## bond-007 (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



> A DD should be supported by a signed form which the bank should have a copy of


Not nessasary at all now a days. Eircom, ESB, Bord Gais, and most utility companies do not need a signed mandate to DD an account. They use originator plus which allows them to DD without a paper mandate.


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## BoscoTalking (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



Mpsox said:


> -ask for a copy of the DD form from the bank
> -ask the bank to confirm if there is another DD to the same person due out this month
> -if so, ask the bank to cancel the DD, you may be asked to put this in writing
> -ask the bank for details of their customer complaints procedures.


this happened me and it took a month to get sorted. i paid mine and someone elses mortgage one monthI requested to see my signature on the DD mandate and sure enough they could not provide me with the DD form with the other bank account number on it - just the one with my mortgage account number on it. 
Keep at them - it took a lot of cranky phonecalls to them before it was sorted.


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## Mercantilist (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



bond-007 said:


> Eircom, ESB, Bord Gais, and most utility companies do not need a signed mandate to DD an account. They use originator plus which allows them to DD without a paper mandate.



How do they prevent fraud if theres no signature?
Someone could easily set up a direct debit off my account, to pay their ESB and gas bills, right?


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## BoscoTalking (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



Mercantilist said:


> How do they prevent fraud if theres no signature?
> Someone could easily set up a direct debit off my account, to pay their ESB and gas bills, right?


Yes but you need the signature - otherwise you can say it was done without your knowledge?


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## Thrifty1 (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



Mercantilist said:


> How do they prevent fraud if theres no signature?
> Someone could easily set up a direct debit off my account, to pay their ESB and gas bills, right?


 
Does the name on the account and the name on the bill have to match?

To jmra - have i got this right, your girlfriend gave her bank account number to the guy from the agency so he could take €1000 from the account each month? This happened on 18th July but on 17th July €1000 was taken out and also the landlord said he hasnt received the rent due?

Where did the €2000 go to (€1000 deposit and €1000 month in advance) was that given as cash to the guy in the agency?

I assume that the name of the account holder doesnt match either the name of the guy in the agency or the landlord?

My advice would be as another poster suggested go into the bank with your girlfriend and a fluent English speaker and put pressure on them to sort it out.
This is from IPSO website

*Paying Banks Must:*
Only pay Direct Debits in accordance with its customer’s instruction.
*Ensure that unauthorised and/or cancelled Direct Debits are intercepted and returned immediately on presentation.*
Promptly refund its customer for indemnity claims and present the Indemnity to the Originator. 
*Assist its customer in the resolving disputes with Originators.* 
Inform the Sponsoring Bank if an Originator is not adhering to the Rules of the Scheme 
*The Rights of the Payer*
A Direct Debit Guarantee is provided by the Payer’s Bank in the following form:
If you authorise payment by Direct Debit, the Originator will notify you in advance of the amounts to be debited to your account.
Your Bank will accept and pay such debits, provided that your account has sufficient available funds
*If it is established that an unauthorised Direct Debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed a prompt refund by your Bank of the amount so charged.*
You can cancel the Direct Debit Instruction by writing in good time to your Bank.


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## bond-007 (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



Thrifty1 said:


> Does the name on the account and the name on the bill have to match?


Yes they should match. All that is needed is the sort code, account number and name of account holder. You give a verbal consent.


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## Brussels (14 Aug 2008)

Are you sure this is a 'Direct Debit'. If so the originators name should be on your bank statement. 
Do you know what narrative appears for the transaction on the bank account.


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## bond-007 (14 Aug 2008)

I have seen some direct debits on my bank statements with the minimal of information about the originator usually just a series of numbers etc. You would only be able to identify them from the amounts paid.


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## aircobra19 (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



pennypitstop said:


> Yes but you need the signature - otherwise you can say it was done without your knowledge?


 
Signature are hardly any security. A bank teller isn't a hand writing expert and most people don't check them properly anyway.


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## Towger (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Direct debit fraud, please help!!*



aircobra19 said:


> Signature are hardly any security. A bank teller isn't a hand writing expert and most people don't check them properly anyway.


 
You don't need a signature. Someone with Originator Plus (OP/) can suck money from any bank account DDs are allowed from. All they need is the sortcode and account number, the account name is not checked against the account being DDed.


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