# Who should initiate the local tongue?



## LouLouBelle (4 Nov 2007)

OK, this is an ongoing argument between myself and my partner.  We met in Ireland (He is French).  His English at the time was average.  We went out, eventually moved in together etc,.etc,. etc,.  His English is now perfect!  We met in November 2003 and in March 2007 made the decision to move to France (cheaper house prices etc!).  

I am now desperately trying to learn French.  This leads to our question...it is now, natural for us to speak in English together.  

This does not help my quest to learn French in order to live here, obtain a job, friends, etc., etc.  Should HE  be the one who forces/inititiates our conversations in French or should it be I????


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## ClubMan (4 Nov 2007)

LouLouBelle said:


> Should HE  be the one who forces/inititiates our conversations in French or should it be I????


_EU _directive 421.6 (2005) dictates that it is he who should do this. I thought everybody knew that.


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## DrMoriarty (4 Nov 2007)

Normally this would be true, but the French obtained a special derogation on constitutional grounds, back at the time of the Maastricht treaty.

IMHO you should no more expect your partner to help you learn French than, say, teach you the correct way to reverse park. It's bound to end in tears.

Also, I've moved this thread from the _Great Financial Debates_ to _Shooting the Breeze_, so I'm afraid you'll have to clock up another 39 posts before you can have any further say in the matter (gallic shrug).


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## Vanilla (4 Nov 2007)

I'm afraid you are both wrong ( hardly surprising considering you are both irish males). The woman is always right and this is no where more true than in France. Therefore whether it is the OP or her partner who should initiate conversations depends on what the OP believes should happen. Naturally this can change at a whim. I see your gallic shrug Dr.M and raise you an arched eyebrow and insouciant smile.


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## DrMoriarty (4 Nov 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Naturally this can change at a whim.


Which is why a gentleman should never argue with his wife. It's so much easier simply to wait for her to change her mind.


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## Sn@kebite (4 Nov 2007)

LouLouBelle said:


> OK, this is an ongoing argument between myself and my partner.  We met in Ireland (He is French).  His English at the time was average.  We went out, eventually moved in together etc,.etc,. etc,.  His English is now perfect!  We met in November 2003 and in March 2007 made the decision to move to France (cheaper house prices etc!).
> 
> I am now desperately trying to learn French.  This leads to our question...it is now, natural for us to speak in English together.
> 
> This does not help my quest to learn French in order to live here, obtain a job, friends, etc., etc.  Should HE  be the one who forces/inititiates our conversations in French or should it be I????


If He has perfect english i think it would be better for you to only say things in english that you are unable to say in french and let him tell you how to say it in french. That is, if you're trying to learn french.


DrMoriarty said:


> Which is why a gentleman should never argue with his wife. It's so much easier simply to wait for her to change her mind.


Does this go for co-habitants too? - As it seems to be the case for the _OP_.


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## Sue Ellen (5 Nov 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I'm afraid you are both wrong ( hardly surprising considering you are both irish males). The woman is always right and this is no where more true than in France. Therefore whether it is the OP or her partner who should initiate conversations depends on what the OP believes should happen. Naturally this can change at a whim. I see your gallic shrug Dr.M and raise you an arched eyebrow and insouciant smile.



[broken link removed]


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## efm (5 Nov 2007)

Just go on strike - if he's French he'll understand that quick enough


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## tallpaul (5 Nov 2007)

or just surrender. He will completely empathise with you...


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## Vanilla (5 Nov 2007)

tallpaul said:


> or just surrender. He will completely empathise with you...


 
Ooooh, a low blow. And really, if you are Irish, glass houses...


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Ooooh, a low blow.


Sorry - I didn't realise that were were talking about those sort of tongues!


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## r2d2 (5 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Sorry - I didn't realise that were were talking about those sort of tongues!


 
Ever the cunning linguist ClubMan......


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## Sn@kebite (6 Nov 2007)

'twould be terrible if this turned into a "battle of the sexes" thread.


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## rmelly (6 Nov 2007)

yes, especially when it could/should become a 'cheese eating surrender monkey' bashing thread...


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## PMU (6 Nov 2007)

I knew a couple who met while working in an international organisation and ended up together.  He was English and she was Greek.  Neither could speak each other’s language but they both could make a stab at German so they ended up speaking a sort of private version of German between each other with a lot of English and Greek thrown in when they couldn’t think of the correct German phrase.  (The marriage didn’t last, by the way).  Also I know a Norwegian who married a Rumanian, and they communicate in English except when they have a row and then it’s Norwegian vs Rumanian.  (Luckily they can’t understand each other when they argue!)


I find what you say rather strange as all French people have - or give the impression they have - a national responsibility to promote the use of the French language, so your boyfriend is letting his side down.  



If you’re based in France you should be able to pick up French lessons locally, so you’ll need to practice and your significant other is the obvious choice. You could also spend evenings together going over Le Bon Usage.


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## ragazza (6 Nov 2007)

Hi,

I have an irish friend who met her spanish boyfriend in Ireland.
His english is almost perfect and her spanish was non existant, so they spoke in english.
They now live in spain, and continue to mostly communicate in english (since it's what they are both used to).
However she now speaks good spanish, and they are increasing the amount they chat in spanish (e.g. in company of other spanish people etc).

I'd say to the OP to communicate mainly in english, but to do french lessons, and spent e.g. half an hour a day talking solely in friench with your partner. Over time, as your french improves, you can increase the amount of french you speak with each other.
I'd say it would be frustrating on you both to try to talk in french all the time now, if your level is not yet very good.

Bon chance!


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## DrMoriarty (6 Nov 2007)

PMU said:


> You could also spend evenings together going over _Le Bon Usage_.


 You crrrrazy rrromantic...!

I've known a few couples who, given a choice of options, prefer to continue to speak to each other in the language they first used — sometimes the native language of one of the partners, sometimes a common foreign/second language (for instance, an Egyptian/German couple who have lived in Paris for twenty years and — unless company dictates otherwise — still speak English together, although both of them have fluent French and German, too). 

At a slightly removed level, I have a couple of old French friends living in Ireland — and who speak English perfectly — with whom I invariably* speak French, simply because that's the language in which we got to know each other and it somehow feels odd to change now. I have other French friends with whom I always speak English, for the same reason!

_[* The only exception is if we're arguing about something, because a Frenchman cannot admit he's wrong in his own language...  ]_


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## Jock04 (6 Nov 2007)

I live in a Gaeltacht area, and one of the ones which takes Gaelic seriously at that!

Staff & customers at local shops & pubs & people in general will speak Irish unless you are unable to respond.

I've been taking Irish lessons for the last few years to boost the little Scots Gaelic that I had. What I find helpful is that the lads in the pub will speak Irish  until the conversation gets to a point where I get stuck, then they'll happily switch to English for as long as necessary to keep me included. It's a good challenge for me to keep up as long as I can.
Mrs Jock is also very supportive & we talk Irish as much as possible at home.
Maybe a little off-topic, but I do feel that you should make the effort to speak as the locals do.


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## Caveat (6 Nov 2007)

Yep. Unless there are very special cicumstances my general view on this kind of thing would be 'when in Rome...'  (or when in France as the case may be)


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## ragazza (6 Nov 2007)

Caveat said:


> Yep. Unless there are very special cicumstances my general view on this kind of thing would be 'when in Rome...' (or when in France as the case may be)


 

Yes, I agree in principle, but the OP said they are desperately trying to learn French which suggests her level isn't very high.
So it doesnt sound practical for the OP to converse solely in French with her partner (yet). Imagine the frustration for them both if they are trying to discuss an issue, and it takes 10 mins to phrase a sentence.
Thats why I suggested keep talking in english for the moment, and increase the use of French as the OP level increases.
But then as Dr Moriarty said, you get used to speaking to someone in one language, and it can be odd to change, even when you are both fluent in an other language.

The OP also asked :
<Should HE be the one who forces/inititiates our conversations in French or should it be I????>
I'd say the OP should initiate it more. Your partner is comfortable speaking in english, so its prob easier for him to just ask you something in english, rather than say it in french, and then wait for you to compose a reply.


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## casiopea (7 Nov 2007)

LouLouBelle said:


> Should HE  be the one who forces/inititiates our conversations in French or should it be I????



You are in the same situation as myself, the biggest flaw in your question in my opinion is the fact that he should initiate conversations in French.  Its not the responsibility of one partner to initiate the language - especially if you are easily communicating in another.

If you are still at learning stages at French you should 
- Do lessons
- Join a conversation group
- Start watching French shows on TV (the equivalent of X-factor or Big Brother I find are great for learning a language, there is a lot of repitition, its very followable, while Id never watch them in English they are useful for absorbing a foreign language)
- Allocate (one or two) evenings every week where you and your husband will struggle through communicating French  no matter what.

Slowly you'll find you'll both naturally speak a bit more French to oneanother even outside of hte allocated evenings.  But the attitude of "he should initiate it" is definitely wrong.


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## Vanilla (7 Nov 2007)

I thought the French government provided language classes for all immigrants free of charge? 

Just remember no matter how fluent you become to never let on to the in-laws. Lack of communication skills with them can come in very very handy...


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