# BoI Change Free Banking Conditions Again (November 2012)



## Lightning (19 Sep 2012)

BoI are changing the conditions for getting free banking. 

In a nutshell, you now need to keep at least 3,000.00 EUR in your bank account each and every day to have zero fees. 

You lose significant forgone interest by keeping 3,000.00+ EUR in your account at zero interest. 

Ulster Bank give free banking until at least July 2013. EBS and PTSB have easier to comply with T&C's. Switch. 

*Current Conditions*



> *[broken link removed]*
> 
> Day-to-day banking:
> €11.90 per quarter for the first 90 transactions and then €0.28 per transaction thereafter
> ...


*New Conditions*



> *[broken link removed]*
> 
> Day-to-day banking:
> €11.90 per quarter for the first 90 transactions and then €0.28 per transaction thereafter
> ...


More here:

[broken link removed]

Best Buy current account list.


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## theresa1 (20 Sep 2012)

*How can I reduce my fees and charge?*

With a standard current account there are two fee options: 

Option 1 - Pay as You Go
Pay 28c for every transaction into or out of your account (charged quarterly). 

Option 2 - Flat Fee
11.40 per quarter, for up to 90 transactions into and out of your account. Over 90 transactions would costs 28c each. If you have more than 40 transactions per quarter, Flat Fee becomes the better option for you. You can, however, switch between the two options at any stage by contacting your branch. The change will take effect at the beginning of the next fee-charging quarter

Will they still have the pay as you go option from November 2012?


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## Lightning (20 Sep 2012)

Good point. The pay as you go option appears to be still there.


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## PolkaDot (20 Sep 2012)

I suppose it was only a matter of time. 

It's crazy the way they charge you fees for using online banking. I always pay off my credit card online as well as doing many other online transactions. I'm not using their branch facilities, yet I still have to pay fees?!


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## Murfnm (21 Sep 2012)

But you do use their online facilities, why assume these are free?


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## Janet (21 Sep 2012)

Because usually the reason people are encouraged to use online facilities is for the bank to save money on having people carry out the same tasks?  If I'm saving the bank money by doing the work myself (and yes, I know someone has to be in the background keeping the systems going) then I am far more likely to resent having to pay for it.


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## PolkaDot (22 Sep 2012)

Janet said:


> Because usually the reason people are encouraged to use online facilities is for the bank to save money on having people carry out the same tasks?  If I'm saving the bank money by doing the work myself (and yes, I know someone has to be in the background keeping the systems going) then I am far more likely to resent having to pay for it.



Exactly


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## Jim2007 (22 Sep 2012)

Janet said:


> Because usually the reason people are encouraged to use online facilities is for the bank to save money on having people carry out the same tasks?  If I'm saving the bank money by doing the work myself (and yes, I know someone has to be in the background keeping the systems going) then I am far more likely to resent having to pay for it.



That is history, in the old days switching to servicing a customer online did reduce the banks costs, but here is the thing there is no longer some thing switch from, so adding more online customers increases costs.

The last figures I saw for mainland Europe was that 4 out of 6 bank employees were IT professionals!  I don't know if these figures hold for Ireland, but I expect so.


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## pator (23 Sep 2012)

CiaranT said:


> BoI are changing the conditions for getting free banking.
> 
> In a nutshell, you now need to keep at least 3,000.00 EUR in your bank account each and every day to have zero fees.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks very much Ciaran, 

I hadn't seen the ads - another great heads up from CiaranT and askaboutmoney. 

I was doing the €1 transfers to bring it up to 9 transactions with bank of ireland 

Ulster Bank here I come . 

(might help others --> I was thinking "sure I dont do many transactions, then went looking at last years statements .......... there was a lot!!)

EDIT 
Ciaran, you have been spot on over the years with all this, I know the whole world can predict but how do you think charges will go with Ulster Bank after July 2013?


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## Alexmartin (23 Sep 2012)

theresa1 said:


> *How can I reduce my fees and charge?*
> 
> With a standard current account there are two fee options:
> 
> ...



Over €130 a year for a current account.

My god.  Surely there is some way to get a useful account that wont cost you transaction fees.


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## Lightning (23 Sep 2012)

pator said:


> Thanks very much Ciaran,
> 
> I hadn't seen the ads - another great heads up from CiaranT and askaboutmoney.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind words. 

Ulster Bank will, no doubt, determine their current account fees closer to July 2013. Ulster Bank, will want to be competitive versus AIB and BoI as Ulster Bank don't have dominant market status. This means offering slightly better T&C's that AIB and BoI. Hence, I would guess that they will give free banking if you keep at least 1,500 EUR or perhaps 2,000 EUR in your account. Just a guess.


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## Lightning (23 Sep 2012)

cashier said:


> Well done on keeping us up to date with all this Ciaran, you are an ace with your information, I reckon you should be nominated AAM poster of the year



Thanks Cashier. 



> BOI want theri customers to keep €3000 euro each and every day in their current account. What is this worth a year if one gets 3% interest rate in a savings account maybe 60 euro after DIRT. So maybe it might be worth it if people kept the 3000 in their current accounts because the average fees as far as I can make out is 40 or 50 euro a quarter.
> 
> Then again not many have €3000 to spare these days so for most people it is not an option.



Using the EBS regular saver rate:

3,000 EUR * 0.041% * 0.7 = 86.10 EUR. 

But the above calculation is not correct as you need to factor in a buffer above 3,000 EUR to be sure you never ever drop below. 400 EUR might be ones buffer figure. Hence ...

3,400 EUR * 0.041% * 0.7 = 97.58 EUR. 

Hence, the opportunity cost is around 97.58 EUR. 

The opportunity cost is not 97.58 EUR minus BoI fees because Ulster Bank have zero fees and people can switch. 

Hence, one is unnecessarily paying at least 97.58 EUR per year to BoI in opportunity cost if they do not switch.


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## Lightning (23 Sep 2012)

Alexmartin said:


> Over €130 a year for a current account.
> 
> My god.  Surely there is some way to get a useful account that wont cost you transaction fees.



Ulster Bank. Alternatively, PTSB or EBS and comply with their conditions.


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## sebadoh (23 Sep 2012)

fees will be €11.90 per quarter or €45.60 per year for 90 transactions per quarter, I can't see many customers exceeding that.


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## DrMoriarty (23 Sep 2012)

€11.90 x 4 = €4*7*.60 (unless I'm missing something?)

Yes, still, more reasonable than AIB (and certainly better than NIB, whom I left over their unilateral removal of the Freebank account they insisted I was required to now pay fees for, or lose my tracker mortgage).

In all of this discussion about what's reasonable for banks to charge, let's not forget the billions of taxpayers' money ploughed into shoring them up over the past 5 or 10 years and paying for their gross mismanagement for the next twenty-odd.

I just don't have the damn energy to go through another switch to UB.


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## adox (24 Sep 2012)

I have some savings with rabo and was considering transferring 3K in to my current account to avoid the fees but looking at it, even taking into consideration paying DIRT on the interest on 3K with rabo, the banking fees will still work out cheaper if I stay within the transactions including in the €11.90 fee.

Still more money out of our pockets though.


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## adox (24 Sep 2012)

Actually, doing my sums again, it seems like it might be actually slightly cheaper to lodge 3k in the current account. Theres only a few cents in it.

*Edit* Actually, while 90 transactions per quarter sounds quite a lot, I ve just checked my last 6 months statements and have over 30 every month so additional fees would apply at that rate.

This is going to make my Visa debit card more or less defunct. I`m going to use my credit card for any transactions I can and then pay it off when its due.


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## Boyd (24 Sep 2012)

There's also the security aspect to condider (of having over 3K in your current account)

I think im going to change to PTSB (still wary of UB and its IT systems)


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## sebadoh (24 Sep 2012)

DrMoriarty said:


> €11.90 x 4 = €4*7*.60 (unless I'm missing something?)
> 
> Yes, still, more reasonable than AIB (and certainly better than NIB, whom I left over their unilateral removal of the Freebank account they insisted I was required to now pay fees for, or lose my tracker mortgage).
> 
> ...


Yes, I put the wrong figures in
It was also discussed on 5-7 live and the recommendation was to move transactions over to your credit card provided that you pay 100% of your liability each month. 
Presumably we will now have to pay a fee every time we use a debit card, get paid, pay a standing order or direct debit and withdraw money, it will take the benefit out of availing of the contactless technology that is being rolled out


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## adox (24 Sep 2012)

I will be using my Visa Debit card as little as possible from November. Credit card will now be used for everything I can.


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## DrMoriarty (24 Sep 2012)

sebadoh said:


> ...it will take the benefit out of availing of the contactless technology that is being rolled out


The benefit for _us_, that is...

I'll be looking at my own usage too, to see if I can reasonably keep it to 30 transactions/month. In my case it'll mean shifting as much as possible onto the credit card and cutting down on ATM withdrawals, say, taking out €100+ at a time instead of just what I need for the day (i.e. going against all the old-fashioned "thrift" habits my mother drummed into me! )


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## Boyd (25 Sep 2012)

Or you could switch to UB or PTSB.....taking out €100 every time for the sake of it sucks. Youll just spend it


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## DrMoriarty (25 Sep 2012)

I left UB years ago because of dire customer service. To this day Mrs M and I still receive quarterly zero-balance statements in the post (by separate cover) for accounts that we tried to close (in writing, twice), this despite several phone calls and assurances. I just gave up, and now shred the statements when they arrive.

They were having "problems with their systems" back in 2006, too.

PTSB it shall be, I guess.


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## rameire (25 Sep 2012)

DR Moriatty,
think of it that you can now switch to UB with Ease.
as you have accounts setup, it will be quicker for you,
all you need to do is ring branch and order debit cards and online banking and you are up and running again with free banking.

I must say great forward thinking from UB.


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## Wollran (25 Sep 2012)

Can anyone confirm exactly what BOI mean by "Transactions"?  Is it absolutley everything that comes into or out of my account?  Or could a transaction be, for example, change my pin number at an ATM?

The reason I ask is that when BOI originally changed from free banking to "the 9 transactions model" I was charged once, as certain things, (ATM withdrawls i think) weren't considered transaction.

So I want to be sure this time that if I going to go with the flat rate per quarter, I know exactly what "transactions" are.

Many thanks
Wollran


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## Perplexed (25 Sep 2012)

Transactions are every item that goes in and out of your account, be they DD's, SO's, online transfers, ATM withdrawals, Credit Transfers, your wages, online credits.  Every item on your statement is a transaction.

Changing your pin number does not count.


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## pator (26 Sep 2012)

CiaranT said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> Ulster Bank will, no doubt, determine their current account fees closer to July 2013. Ulster Bank, will want to be competitive versus AIB and BoI as Ulster Bank don't have dominant market status. This means offering slightly better T&C's that AIB and BoI. Hence, I would guess that they will give free banking if you keep at least 1,500 EUR or perhaps 2,000 EUR in your account. Just a guess.


 
No bother, they are hard earned - particularly on internet forums! 

As of yesterday afternoon I am an Ulster Bank customer and they are handling the switch and closing the B of I current account - and all thanks to this thread!!


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## Boyd (26 Sep 2012)

Tried to switch to UB online there....while doing the application it made me search for my address. Got error "Service is temporarily unavailable" blah blah blah, not really filling me with confidence


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## pator (26 Sep 2012)

username123 said:


> Tried to switch to UB online there....while doing the application it made me search for my address. Got error "Service is temporarily unavailable" blah blah blah, not really filling me with confidence


 
It wont suit everyone but I poped into a branch, took the id documents with me and she had it all done in minutes; seemed to be well used to it.


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## Boyd (26 Sep 2012)

Yeah but my point is if the online account registering isnt working, what chance is there that everything else is.....


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## theresa1 (26 Sep 2012)

Well done pator for making the move rather than like most of us winge,complain and take no course of action.


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## DrMoriarty (26 Sep 2012)

rameire said:


> DR Moriatty,
> think of it that you can now switch to UB with Ease.
> as you have accounts setup, it will be quicker for you,
> all you need to do is ring branch and order debit cards and online banking and you are up and running again with free banking.
> ...


My other problem with UB is that they have only one branch in Limerick (in O'Connell St., where the nearest available parking is usually a block or two away).

PTSB have four, including two right beside my place of work and my home.

I obviously avoid going into branches as far as possible, but sometimes you need to, and having to negotiate city traffic and pay for parking would just add to the pain.


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## pator (26 Sep 2012)

DrMoriarty said:


> My other problem with UB is that they have only one branch in Limerick (in O'Connell St., where the nearest available parking is usually a block or two away).
> 
> PTSB have four, including two right beside my place of work and my home.
> 
> I obviously avoid going into branches as far as possible, but sometimes you need to, and having to negotiate city traffic and pay for parking would just add to the pain.


 
They (Ulster) also have a branch in Castletroy, 
and one in the Cresent Shoping centre.
(also one out in UL but parking out there is hard to get)

*not trying to sell Ulster, only been a customer a day, just giving locations so the dscussion is accurate.


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## DrMoriarty (26 Sep 2012)

I thought the one in the Crescent closed?
It doen't show up on their [broken link removed].
Castletroy is miles away from me, unfortunately.

_[Edit: whoops, thank you pator, I see the Crescent branch now! ]_


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## pator (26 Sep 2012)

Scroll down to number 3 there on the link in your post. 
IIRC its on the "city mall" the one with carphone warehouse/ebs/subway


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## pator (26 Sep 2012)

theresa1 said:


> Well done pator for making the move rather than like most of us winge,complain and take no course of action.


 
Thanks Theresa, 

Ya, I reckon its one of those things that complaining aint going to get us anywhere; so may as well take action.    
I would suspect they are relying on a certain amount of customer inertia - of course I have no evidence to back that up. 

In fairness Ciaran and the bestbuys thread made it easy as I didnt have to spend time researching the options.


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## pudds (26 Sep 2012)

*Over 60's Free Banking*

Is this likely to survive or not, think there is only one bank doing it, is it ptsb!!


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## moonman (26 Sep 2012)

over 60s ,,,,  boi,  are still doing it .


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## pudds (29 Sep 2012)

moonman said:


> over 60s ,,,,  boi,  are still doing it .



cheers moonman.


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## airgead07 (2 Oct 2012)

is it worth changing from BoI to UB only to have to review the situation in July 2013, saving around €34.20?? (3 quarters from Nov, €11.40 x3)

I know every cent counts these days but UB could bring in similar fees in July 2013, or look to reduce number of current account customers as per Sunday Business Post Article by brining in higher fees.

It would then be a case of switiching back to AIB or BoI


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## Boyd (2 Oct 2012)

Or PTSB.....

Depends how much BOI's charges annoy you I gues


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## PolkaDot (2 Oct 2012)

airgead07 said:


> ....or look to reduce number of current account customers as per Sunday Business Post Article by brining in higher fees.



Anyone care to expand on this or explain further please?


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## Delboy (4 Oct 2012)

has anyone switched their current account to the Credit Union? Would it work for wages, direct debits, mortgage payments etc?
I heard on the radio they don't charge fees...so I'll do a bit of research and see what I can find. But just wanted to see if anyone here is already with them

Also, for those posters above who said they'd stop using their debit card and put all spending on to their credit card, then pay it off in full every month....you should really look into the Tesco credit card. The points that you can earn are posted out to you in cash back vouchers each month which you can use in store....or transfer into vouchers for approved suppliers/deals at x4 times the value. 
I've been putting everything on the credit card for the past few years and built up over €300 in tesco vouchers. Last summer they had an instore offer- double the value of your vouchers for purchasing baby products instore for example....we got enough nappies/wipes etc to last us a year!!!! essentially for nothing!


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## Boyd (8 Oct 2012)

Opened a PTSB current account today in under an hour in the branch. Dont trust UB after previous IT fiasco. Will see how PTSB goes......


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## pator (13 Nov 2012)

Pator said:
			
		

> As of yesterday afternoon I am an Ulster Bank customer and they are handling the switch and closing the B of I current account - and all thanks to this thread!! .


 


theresa1 said:


> Well done pator for making the move rather than like most of us winge,complain and take no course of action.


 


			
				 Pator said:
			
		

> Thanks Theresa,
> 
> Ya, I reckon its one of those things that complaining aint going to get us anywhere; so may as well take action.
> I would suspect they are relying on a certain amount of customer inertia - of course I have no evidence to back that up.
> ...


 
Just a quick update to anyone that is still thinking about moving/meaning to move/ didnt get around to moving / etc

As I said the initial meeeting was short, took the id docs with me.
Account set up there and then
Opted for switching and for them to close my bofi account and transfer the funds
Opted to be kept informed by text. 

Got regular updates by txt
The money moved from my old b of i account into new account
Salary went in, mortage went out. 

Totally painless!!!!! 

No real down sides - I took out extra cash in case I had no access when the transfer was happening but didnt need it as all done quickly and had the credit card anyway. The ulster bank card reader took about 10 days to arrive before I could set up new accounts to transfer money to - but they told me it would take 10 days to arrive. They did highlight free day to day banking only guaranteed until July 2013 - but look at options again then.

From my experience - very easy to switch current accounts.


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## Sideview (15 Nov 2012)

Quick question on this. I haven't got any notification of this and no transaction fees appear on my online account. Does this mean I'm not being charged? or are the fees only shown at the end of the quarter. I don't want to ring and ask BOI incase they cop on that I'm still marked as a graduate 10 years after graduating. I'm hoping this graduate status may be resulting in no fees for me.


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## pator (15 Nov 2012)

Sideview said:


> Quick question on this. I haven't got any notification of this and no transaction fees appear on my online account. Does this mean I'm not being charged? or are the fees only shown at the end of the quarter. I don't want to ring and ask BOI incase they cop on that I'm still marked as a graduate 10 years after graduating. I'm hoping this graduate status may be resulting in no fees for me.


 
Afraid they charge quarterly; furtheremore
the new system onlly kicks in on Monday Nov 19th
these fees will then be applied in March.



Your annual statement says what type of current account you currently have - 
have you done less than the 9 transactions or maintained less than €3000 in the past and still not been charged fees???


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## Sideview (15 Nov 2012)

Thanks Pator...I probably should have read the previous posts more carefully to see
the date it is starting on. Some how I had Nov 1st in my head.
I'll check what my annual statement says. I met the citeria previously for no charges
so it was of no concern to me. Cheers


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## partnership (27 Nov 2012)

Does anyone know what constitutes a transaction for fees purposes?  If you lodge money is there a charge to that?  Are there charges for direct debits?  I understand that ATM and laser will attract charges but will anything else?


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## partnership (27 Nov 2012)

Just checked with BOI and absolutely everything is a charge including lodging money!  So if you pay your bills, loans etc and get your salary lodged in etc it would be very easy to reach the 90 transactions without evening using your card depending ont he amount of bills and loans.  I find it a bit much that they charge you for paying a loan which they themselves ask you to set up a direct debit for!


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## Boyd (27 Nov 2012)

Ulster Bank, free fees until minimum July 2013.......switch today.


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## partnership (27 Nov 2012)

Does anyone know what the charges are on savings accounts and can you have direct debits etc on that.  Just looked at BOI and it does not seem to charge for cirrus for atm or maestro debit card so is that a possibility?


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## DrMoriarty (27 Nov 2012)

I've kept open a savings account which attracts no fees, but I can't have a chequebook or a VISA debit card - just a little chipless BoI card for withdrawing cash at (BoI) ATMs. 

It's enough for my needs since I also have a current account with UB which is fee-free (at least until next July).


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2012)

I also have a BOI demand savings account which i have always had my salary paid into and only now I have realised that i can also do transfers with this account on 365 - pay bills, transfer money out to other bank's etc. I cant believe I did not know i could do this - mind you they don't advertise the fact.

So if you don't have €3,000 to sit in your BOI current account why not open a demand savings account as well and get your salary paid into this and then you can use this for all your transactions except for standing orders and direct debits.

The best bit transactions are FREE.


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## TarfHead (6 Dec 2012)

theresa1 said:


> .. and then you can use this for all your transactions except for standing orders and direct debits.


 
Do BOI issue VISA debit cards on deposit accounts ?


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2012)

No TarfHead just a basic ATM card but if you do alot of transactions you could save alot.


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## Boyd (6 Dec 2012)

Does it only work at BOI ATMs?

Do you not need a BOI currenct account to open the saving accounts, no?

If not sounds like a loophole waiting to be closed!


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## DrMoriarty (6 Dec 2012)

Yes, it's only for BoI ATMs, and no, you don't have to have a current account — I just closed mine last month, but kept open this savings account for the purpose of lodging the occasional cheque (BoI have a sub-office in my workplace). You also get to keep your online banking, so you can make online transfers "manually" from your savings account — but not set up DDs or Standing Orders.


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## theresa1 (6 Dec 2012)

Not BOI specific but I even manage not to have to pay the Government Stamp Duty as I dont use the card at all. I could get caught for the duty if i used the ATM to say lodge a cheque.

Solution - i'll use my new NSB card from State Savings and buy new 4 or 10 year bonds. We can still take steps in many ways to avoid charges. However I'm sure BOI people read this so we could be shooting ourselves in the foot like for example with the 9 transactions fiasco they brought upon themselves.


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## Lightning (6 Dec 2012)

Great tip theresa1. 

As you said, there are a few drawbacks.


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## PolkaDot (11 Dec 2012)

BOI seem to be on a campaign to ensure everyone will be paying fees. I got a letter last week informing me of the "good" news that my graduate account is being migrated to a standard personal current account.

They have left me on a graduate account for the last 6 years! It's only supposed to be for 2. And now they decide to change my account.

They've obviously done a review of everyone's accounts to maximise the amount of customers who will be paying fees.


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## Lightning (11 Dec 2012)

PolkaDot said:


> BOI seem to be on a campaign to ensure everyone will be paying fees. I got a letter last week informing me of the "good" news that my graduate account is being migrated to a standard personal current account.



"Good news"  

Did BoI at least advise you clearly as to the fees that you would now be paying?


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## TomOC (12 Dec 2012)

PolkaDot said:


> BOI seem to be on a campaign to ensure everyone will be paying fees. I got a letter last week informing me of the "good" news that my graduate account is being migrated to a standard personal current account.
> 
> They have left me on a graduate account for the last 6 years! It's only supposed to be for 2. And now they decide to change my account.
> 
> They've obviously done a review of everyone's accounts to maximise the amount of customers who will be paying fees.



I got the same good news.  I graduated in 2006 and have it till mid January.  Was great while it lasted.  I have only seen the email (I'm in Australia now) and yes they did clearly state the bank charges / fees on it.


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## Ning (6 Jan 2013)

The only notification of the change of fee was at the back of my bank statement received early December. Given the changes are from the quarter starting mid-November, it's not possible to react by leaving 3K on the bank account in time.

Beside the obvious moral problem to customers (am I supposed to be loyal to BoI?) are changes without notifications even legal?


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2013)

The BoI T&C's state that they only need to place a newspaper advertisement. 

BoI advertised in the press and posted the change to their website (or be it not in the most visible place). It was also discussed here and elsewhere at the time. 

I have argued many times that banks need to do more to inform customers of rate changes and T&C changes. It would be very easy for BoI to place a notice when you log into your internet banking, for example.  

You can monitor rates by subscribing to the best buys here.


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## PolkaDot (7 Jan 2013)

The letter which I received did clearly advise of the fees and the two fee paying options which are available to me.


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## Ning (10 Jan 2013)

PolkaDot said:


> The letter which I received did clearly advise of the fees and the two fee paying options which are available to me.



Interesting - I did not receive any letter. Checking with them.


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