# Being harrassed by ICS Mortgages



## DublinLad (21 Oct 2013)

We have 2 Mortgages with ICS, one for our PDH, and one for our RIP. 

The tenants recently moved out of the RIP leaving a month's arrears, and the place was trashed. We had to invest €4,000 into it to make it rentable again but unfortunately one month's payment was missed, €1,200. 

We kept in touch with ICS each step of the way, and kept informing them of the situation. We completed an SFS, and subsequently an I&E form (over the phone). 

They asked us to pay €90 per month and I advised that we could afford this and probably a bit more, they then confirmed that they forgot to include the Mortgage on our home in their calculations and that we can not now afford €90 per month, which I disagreed with. 

They said that we would need to meet with their Network Area Manager who can give us debt advice. I advised them that we have no time to do this, and would just clear down the arrears anyway. 

Since this time, our arrears have reduced to €540, and we have been paying between €120 and €140 per month off the arrears. Despite this, we are getting incessant telephone calls from their Arrears Call Centre either once or twice a day, Mon-Sat, insisting we meet with their Network Manager, which I refuse to do. 

Despite trying to explain over and over and over again the situation, what efforts we've made, the reducing arrears, the people who call appear to be just reading off a sheet and just won't listen to what I'm saying. They claim that as we do not have an 'official arrangement', our increased repayments don't count, and they'll continue to call every day until the arrears are cleared or we agree to a meeting. 

We consider this to be total harrassment and have told them that the lack of compassion, common sense, and incessant 'chipping away' at people will lead to suicides. 

I have begun to ask for full names of who call and what their relevant qualifications are, but they refuse to give these. Neither have they read any notes of previous conversations on the account. 

... but the calls just continue ...... 


Can I ask if this is reasonable on the Bank's part, if they are allowed to keep calling every single day, and sometimes twice a day when someone is blatantly making active efforts to reduce down arrears. 

Is there anything I should be saying to them when they call? 


I have become so frustrated that I have also begun to refuse to give them my date of birth when they call, so they can't discuss it with me. I just tell them to read the notes and repayment profile and they'll see the situation. 


Any help would be most appreciated, as they really have the knack of really wearing someone down. 


Sorry for the lengthy post.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Oct 2013)

This is very annoying.

Am I right in saying that your arrears are only a few hundred euro at this stage and that your mortgage has not been restructured in any way? 

If your mortgage is the subject of a restructuring , they are well within their rights to ask you to a meeting to review the restructuring agreement. 

The next time they call, ask to speak to their manager and refuse to talk to them.

Depending on what happens, write a formal letter of complaint detailing the harrassment.  Times and dates, the name of the person etc. 

Tell them that you intend to make a formal complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman on the grounds of maladministration and harrassment. Ask for a "Final Response Letter".  This shows that you are serious. 

Check out point 22 in the [broken link removed]



> 22.    A lender must ensure that:
> a)      the level of  *communication*s from the lender, or any third party acting on its behalf, is proportionate and not excessive, taking into account the circumstances of the *b**orrower*s, including that unnecessarily frequent *communication*s are not made;
> b)      *communication*s   with   *borrower*s   are   not   aggressive,   intimidating   or harassing;
> c)       *borrower*s  are  given  sufficient  time  to  complete  an  action  they  have committed to before follow up *communication *is attempted. In deciding what constitutes sufficient time, consideration must be given to the action that a *borrower *has committed to carry out, including whether he/she may require assistance from a third party in carrying out the action; and
> d)      steps are taken to agree future *communication *with *borrower*s.


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## G7979 (21 Oct 2013)

Agree to the meeting, get a date and name, the calls should then stop.

"They claim that as we do not have an 'official arrangement', our increased repayments don't count, and they'll continue to call every day until the arrears are cleared or we agree to a meeting. "

Once you have the details of the person you will be meeting try and have the conversation over the phone with them, the Network Area Manager might be able to agree to the plans over the phone and stop all the crazy behaviour.

You are dealing with individuals in a call center reading a script - they probably don't have access to all the information 

Sometimes you just have to work with the system instead of constantly trying to fight against it.

Whether or not they can actually behave this way I dont know, the fact is they are, the other option is to stop answering the phone and let them leave voicemails. As you have already stated the calls will stop once the arrears are paid also.

Have you put the information in writing and sent it registered post to ICS?


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## DublinLad (21 Oct 2013)

The Network Area Manager called me on Friday and said that they are all just robots and he'd note that the arrears will be cleared by Christmas. He said that he couldn't make any guarantee that they'll stop calling. 

I haven't made any complaints as of yet, and couldn't see anything official on the net to say they couldn't act in this manner, as the property is a RIP. 

I neglected to say in my initial mail that we did get a Term Extension of 11 years about 2 years ago, but in all our years with them, we have not missed any repayments whatsoever.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Oct 2013)

Hi Dublin Lad



> I haven't made any complaints as of yet, and couldn't see anything  official on the net to say they couldn't act in this manner, as the  property is a RIP.



Good point. 

As the RIP is not covered by the CCMA, you can't rely on it. 

So, why not withhold payment on your home loan and pay off the RIP arrears in full?  It's perfectly reasonable to withhold payment on your home loan, as you are being harrassed by another creditor. 

Then quote the CCMA. 



> The Network Area Manager called me on Friday and said that they are all  just robots and he'd note that the arrears will be cleared by Christmas.  He said that he couldn't make any guarantee that they'll stop calling.



That is outrageous and shows that their systems are not working. 
 You should write to him noting your conversation. 
You should make a formal complaint to the Central Bank who should be horrified that they are calling someone twice a day. 

You should insist in writing that they stop calling you and if they persist, then you should seek compensation from the Financial Ombudsman. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (22 Oct 2013)

DublinLad said:


> I have become so frustrated that I have also begun to refuse to give them my date of birth when they call, so they can't discuss it with me. .


 
That's clever, I like that. 

It never fails to amaze me how banks can treat customers the way they do. Here you are diligently paying back your arrears, after having completely explained to them, on many occasions, the reason for the arrears, and your determination to pay it back asap. Not only that you are actually paying it back.

The Network Area Manager is a complete disgrace, telling you about robots and not doing anything to sort out the issue. When you write your letter of complaint, and please do this, make sure you quote all the nonsense you've been through. 

Keep calm, it's very frustrating, I've been though the same palaver with my own bank.


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## demoivre (22 Oct 2013)

I'd be making my complaint to the gardaí if I was being harassed by anyone. The law is there so use it OP.


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## Gerry Canning (24 Oct 2013)

demoivre; 

Hope your Guards have good self-motivation. 
I just cannot see them taking a genuine interest?Also it is hard to prove harassment.
Better to not give your date of birth or ask caller to put things in writing ,not that you wish to be obstructive but you wish to respond in a helpful and thoughtful manner.


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## DublinLad (5 Nov 2013)

Just by way of an update. 

The day after posting my story here I got a call from the Network Area Manager saying that my proposal has been formalised and agreed, and that I have been taken off the dialler. 

I have gotten no more calls since then, and continue to pay away as I have been doing. 

I think it is no coincidence what has happened, and they are obviously looking over this site. 


Thank you everybody for your help and advice, and thank you Brendan. Much appreciated.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Nov 2013)

Hi Dublin Lad

That is great news. It would be flattering to think it was the effect of Askaboutmoney and it could be, but as you had previously been talking to the NAM I suspect he sorted it out himself. 

Brendan


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## DublinLad (6 Nov 2013)

I don't think he was doing anything to be honest. It did come out of the blue as such. 

He even apologised for the shennanigans. 


Just goes to show that we all need to talk about our individual stories, so they are named and shamed. 


Thanks again for everything.


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## RainyDay (6 Nov 2013)

DublinLad said:


> I have become so frustrated that I have also begun to refuse to give them my date of birth when they call, so they can't discuss it with me.



It is never a good idea to give out personal information on an unsolicited call. This would be exposing yourself to identity theft. Do they have a visible caller ID when they call you?


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## Time (6 Nov 2013)

They can't discuss anything unless they verify your details, and you shouldn't give an unsolicited caller your details. Catch 22 for them.

I would just change my phone number.


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