# INSURANCE LOADING ON 15 YEAR OLD CARS



## cautious (12 Jul 2017)

My 2003 VW Passat (1896cc diesel engine) will be 15 years old on 1/1/2018, the same date that my 2018 insurance commences.

I am told that:
1. I may expect a significant age loading when the car reaches 15 years of age.
2. Other insurers may refuse to quote me due to the age of the car.

Can anybody advise whether this is true and direct me to a source of reliable information. I am a 67 year old driver with over 30 years accident free no claims driving.

Any advice on the following would also be welcome.

I am in a quandary about whether to change the car for a newer similar model say 2013 to 2015 make.
I love the car I drive. My attitude to most things is "If it's not broke, don't fix it."

*Pros for changing:*
However I am already paying €675 tax p.a. as against € 200 for a newer model.
I feel my insurance company is already putting some kind of age loading on the car as all of my friends of similar age and accident free history are getting cheaper insurance for higher value cars. The 15 years insurance loading could tip the the scales.

*Cons against changing:*
My car suffers almost nil depreciation at present.
A new car  of €15,000 value will depreciate by almost €1000 p.a.
My current car is very reliable, has had new timing belt, etc fitted.
I am a bit wary of all the electronic gimmicks that can and do go wrong in new cars.

Unfortunately, I need a diesel car for towing a caravan.


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## Romulan (12 Jul 2017)

Unfortunately yes and it drives me crazy that this is allowed.

I drive an older classic car and it passes the NCT every year and no expense spared on maintaining it.
No accidents, no points etc. because I drive defensively to protect my baby!

Don't get me started on the tax, I try not to think about it when some brand new expensive car pulls up beside me.


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## Jimbobp (12 Jul 2017)

Older vehicles are certainly costing more to insure, with some insurers refusing to quote for vehicles over 10 years old. I don't think any of the insurers will admit it, but it is more to do with client profiling than any issues with the car. They looked at their overall claim numbers, saw that people with older vehicles were more likely to claim and are throwing the baby out with the bath water. It is a very scatter gun approach to underwriting and very unfair IMO.


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## Monbretia (12 Jul 2017)

It's a pain!  I have an 02 car, I love it and it's flying but I have had to stick with my existing insurer for the past few years as I found it practically impossible to get a quote from another insurer for anything over 10 yrs old, a few quoted but they were off the wall.

This year's renewal is due in November and I am pretty much resigned to having to change the car then, it's a terrible shame,  the car is in great shape, not even very high mileage and passes NCT no problem.   Plus I really like that car


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## vandriver (12 Jul 2017)

At a tangent (!)  but is the 1st of January the most inconvenient date ever for changing insurance?


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## gipimann (12 Jul 2017)

Stories like these.... http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...fraud-ring-behind-injury-claims-35921009.html
may have a lot to do with the additional loading or refusal to insure older cars.


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## Romulan (12 Jul 2017)

No it's just laziness on the part of the insurance companies.
They should be able to profile drivers with older cars who are clearly not part these rings.

Similar to the approach they took to court cases, challenge nothing and pay over the money, easier to load everyone's premium.


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## cautious (12 Jul 2017)

Thanks for all the replies. Much food for thought.



Jimbobp said:


> They looked at their overall claim numbers, saw that people with older vehicles were more likely to claim .



Apart from bogus claims, I'd say that the biggest cohort of old car drivers are young first time drivers who are a high risk  category. Surely, it would be easier and more accurate for the insurance companies to profile on the age of the driver rather than on the age of the car.



vandriver said:


> At a tangent (!)  but is the 1st of January the most inconvenient date ever for changing insurance?



That is the date that I first started driving the car all those years ago.


Looks like I will have to bite the bullet and trade "up" to a newer car full of all the IMO mostly redundant electronic gadgetry that seems to cause so much trouble. Hopefully, the savings on tax and insurance will offset most of the depreciation in the early years.

Moving on to the second part of my post. I am advised that about now would be a good time of year to trade in rather than wait until the end of 2017. There is a bigger choice of second hand cars at this time of year and prices are keener as dealers try to offload. Very few cars get traded in in the last few months of a calendar year.

Any thoughts, please.


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## Monbretia (12 Jul 2017)

I don't know about the trading in side with a 15yr old car, I got mine serviced yesterday and I was telling the mechanic I was going to have to change in November, he helpfully told me the scrapyard won't take my car, they usually pay €150, because it's not a model that's around anymore so no one is looking for parts.


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## peemac (12 Jul 2017)

Considering your current car will be of little value, I'd be waiting til sept/oct when dealers want to get rid before the cars become another year old a couple of months later.

But keep the eye open and if right car at right price comes along, take it.


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## RedOnion (13 Jul 2017)

Both my parents are in their late 60's and drive older cars ('05 & '02 reg). Never an issue with insurance - my mam pays 280 (not a typo!) fully comp for the '05, and my dad's is a bit over 300 for the '02.

I think the key is that they're named drivers on each others cars.

Definitely shop around - I've seen at least 1 insurance company when I was looking myself that will quote you so long as you've owned the car for more than 12 months. I'd also call directly to insurance companies rather than using online quotes - to keep things as automated as possible they have to simplify their underwriting so might be more willing to quote on exception.


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## Cervelo (13 Jul 2017)

Jimbobp said:


> I don't think any of the insurers will admit it, but it is more to do with client profiling than any issues with the car.



I was under the impression that it's more to do with the age of the car than the person. Historicaly older cars fail the NCT test more often because a lot of people don't service or look after their car properly and use the NCT test as a way of finding out what is the minimal work needed to make their car road worthy.


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## Monbretia (13 Jul 2017)

RedOnion, who is your father's insurer?  Mine is twice that on an 02 car and I asked about a named driver and it made no difference as I picked that tip somewhere else too.


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## RedOnion (13 Jul 2017)

I'll have to check. Will get back to you later.


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## Jimbobp (13 Jul 2017)

Cervelo said:


> I was under the impression that it's more to do with the age of the car than the person. Historicaly older cars fail the NCT test more often because a lot of people don't service or look after their car properly and use the NCT test as a way of finding out what is the minimal work needed to make their car road worthy.



That may be the spin that some insurers put on it, but the amount of accidents caused by mechanical failure is tiny (things like bald tyres can contribute to a claim but that is as likely on a new car as an old one) so it doesn't stack up from an underwriting perspective.


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## newirishman (13 Jul 2017)

cautious said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Much food for thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Insurance might be more expensive, but trading up to a newer car costs money as well. Say your renewal comes in at 1500 euro, and you could get a new(er) car insured for 500 euro.
Unless you spent less than 1000 euro on your trade up car, you haven't really saved any money....


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## major (13 Jul 2017)

Monbretia said:


> RedOnion, who is your father's insurer?  Mine is twice that on an 02 car and I asked about a named driver and it made no difference as I picked that tip somewhere else too.


Mine is three time that


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## Monbretia (13 Jul 2017)

newirishman said:


> Insurance might be more expensive, but trading up to a newer car costs money as well. Say your renewal comes in at 1500 euro, and you could get a new(er) car insured for 500 euro.
> Unless you spent less than 1000 euro on your trade up car, you haven't really saved any money....



Only in that year though, the following year you will be saving 1000 again in insurance and so on, unless there is some drastic improvement in insurance costs.


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## RedOnion (13 Jul 2017)

Here's a statement from Aviva on this matter. http://www.aviva.ie/car-insurance/motor-advice/vehicle-age/

It doesn't impact existing customers with their current car, or those that choose to buy an older car, but they won't take on new customers who have an older car.

This is insurer my earlier post refers to, so unfortunately not much help unless currently insured with them.


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## lledlledlled (24 Apr 2019)

Resurrecting old thread to see if this has improved in the last couple of years? There was some talk of this improving but I wonder if it had for anyone?

Seems nuts to be refused Insurance for a ten year old car. Lots of high end 09 cars will be perfectly road worthy for another decade,  in comparison with a few cheap 141s which I'd be less confident of making it through the next couple of years.


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## Jimbobp (25 Apr 2019)

lledlledlled said:


> Resurrecting old thread to see if this has improved in the last couple of years? There was some talk of this improving but I wonder if it had for anyone?
> 
> Seems nuts to be refused Insurance for a ten year old car. Lots of high end 09 cars will be perfectly road worthy for another decade,  in comparison with a few cheap 141s which I'd be less confident of making it through the next couple of years.



Nothing got to do with the road worthiness of the car. Some insurers think there is an increased moral hazard if clients have an older car (though they probably won't admit as much)


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## RedOnion (25 Apr 2019)

Jimbobp said:


> Some insurers think there is an increased moral hazard if clients have an older car (though they probably won't admit as much)


I think they've been open about it. Too many cases of someone buying a car for 500 quid, and then rear ending a relative at a remote roundabout...

I had no problems shopping around for insurance on a 10 year old car last year (previous insurer increased premium 40% with no explanation), so I'll see how I get on this year when it's a year older.


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## AlbacoreA (25 Apr 2019)

I had no problem but only because I stayed with the same insurer. They told me if it had been a new policy they wouldn't have been interested. 

Since changed the car.


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## PaddyBloggit (25 Apr 2019)

Jimbobp said:


> Some insurers think there is an increased moral hazard if clients have an older car



What do you mean Jim?


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## odyssey06 (25 Apr 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I think they've been open about it. Too many cases of someone buying a car for 500 quid, and then rear ending a relative at a remote roundabout...
> 
> I had no problems shopping around for insurance on a 10 year old car last year (previous insurer increased premium 40% with no explanation), so I'll see how I get on this year when it's a year older.



How many of the relatives meeting at the roundabout had a full ncb though or the same car for 10 years? I think they arent bothered at looking close enough at the risk which points to lack of competition.


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## lledlledlled (25 Apr 2019)

AlbacoreA said:


> I had no problem but only because I stayed with the same insurer. They told me if it had been a new policy they wouldn't have been interested.
> 
> Since changed the car.



Sounds like a bit of a scam by Insurance companies. They know you're stuck with them so they jack up the premium.


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