# website hosting and maintenance query



## Bolo (21 Oct 2007)

I have registered my domain name with digiweb.ie.  I spoke to the guy about hosting my site and asked him a few questions, Im not really IT savy but asked him would they look after the maintenance of my site and according to him the maintenance is down to me, is this the norm..  

I am looking to start a business and obviously until Im up and running want to keep costs to a minimum Ive found a decent free website design the guy doesnt mind me making any changes so long as I keep the website designed by blah blah at the bottom..

My site will be pretty simple to start with a home page, gallery, query form, customer feedback that sort of thing.

I am just worried about the maintenance part of things etc as I say Im not IT savy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## miselemeas (21 Oct 2007)

There's a lot of information on AAM regarding websites - setting up, hosting, maintenance etc.  I suggest doing a search on "website hosting" - in the meantime take a look at
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=51366&highlight=website+hosting


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## RainyDay (21 Oct 2007)

I'm not clear on what specific question(s) you are asking?


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## Fintan (21 Oct 2007)

If you have taken a hosting package with Digiweb they will provide storage space for you to host your website on (for a fee) for this fee you will get a certain amonut of space, email accounts, databases etc (you can also look at services offered by hosting365.com and blacknight.ie)

They will also maintain the hardware that will store your website. However on a basic package there is no guarantee of uptime/availability of your site. 

In terms of the actual website itself (HTML code etc) that is entirely up to you, you can either manage it yourself or there are companies who will not only design a website for you but will manage any changes etc that you require (for a fee),  a company I use a lot is www.NewOdyssey.ie and would highly recommend them. 

I hope this answers your question?


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## Flax (23 Oct 2007)

If you know exactly what your website should do (detailed description, not a vague list) then you could get someone on www.scriptlance.com to create and maintain the website for you.

They'll be much cheaper than Irish web developers.


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## ButtermilkJa (24 Oct 2007)

Flax said:


> ...They'll be much cheaper than Irish web developers.


Can you prove this?


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## Flax (25 Oct 2007)

ButtermilkJa said:


> Can you prove this?


 


I have never heard of an Irish web developer who will work for $5 an hour.

Browse the bids on scriptlance and see how cheap they are.

Note: I am an Irish web developer


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## Bob the slob (25 Oct 2007)

Yeah but can they do as good a job? There is a graphics site like that web one where people bid for graphics and most of them are rip offs from other logos etc.


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## Bolo (26 Oct 2007)

Thanks guys for the replies.  Basically Im just looking for a decent site without spending an arm and a leg..  Im just starting out so when Ive more cash I will throw it into it..

Ive got a few quotes from Irish web developers 600euros for a simple brochure site without maintenance which I was told was expensive for what I want...

The search continues.. I need it to look rich and the pictures need to be very clear without taking forever to upload..

THanks


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## sinbadsailor (26 Oct 2007)

I honestly don't think 600 euro is too much for what you are describing Bolo.
Quality imagery seems to costs money. Web Design is more expensive than web development.

Maybe you could compromise on the 'richness' of your site idea. It all depends on what is more important, text, contact, information content or a pretty face that will direct people to an email address, phone number etc.

Web Design for pretty, Web Development for content. Good site has the right balance of both for YOUR site/business.

There is a difference and it is not a simple process. The best advice I can give you is to be completely sure of what you want before you engage a web developer/designer. That way you will know what is the more important emphasis and therefore the type of company you engage with.

And remember, the initial outlay might seem a lot, but websites when implemented properly can drive up your business no end so it will be recouped in no time


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## Flax (26 Oct 2007)

Bob the slob said:


> Yeah but can they do as good a job?


 
Absolutely. They just have lower wages in their countries.



			
				Bolo said:
			
		

> Ive got a few quotes from Irish web developers 600euros for a simple brochure site without maintenance


 
That's very expensive. I recommend you check out the link I posted earlier...


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## ButtermilkJa (26 Oct 2007)

Flax said:


> Absolutely. They just have lower wages in their countries.


 Asking any Irish business to work with a developer in India or wherever to build their company website is a non-runner in my opinion. The obstacles are too much. Time delay, language, etc.



Flax said:


> That's very expensive. I recommend you check out the link I posted earlier...


€600 for a professionally designed website is _very_ low in my opinion. As pointed out by _sinbadsailor_, there is a big difference between 'designer' and 'developer'. It is very rare that you get a competent developer that has quality design skills and experience, and vice versa. Compromising can be dangerous and expensive.

Some people may think €600 is a lot because it may take a developer a matter of hours to put together a brochure site, but what will that site look like? Will it look good, professional, will the font usage be clearly thought out, will the colour scheme be thought through? Will the images be adequate? If you build it in standards compliant html/css how long are you going to spend debugging it in IE? Are you going to charge for these hours as well?

Most businesses would easily spend €600 on a print advert in a newspaper  which is gone after a day. Why not spend more on a website that will be available 24/7 for years?


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## Flax (26 Oct 2007)

ButtermilkJa said:


> Asking any Irish business to work with a developer in India or wherever to build their company website is a non-runner in my opinion. The obstacles are too much. Time delay, language, etc.


 
That's rubbish. I could name a very large famous Irish website which is developed in Belarus.

There are no obstacles. I've been using off shore workers (developers and QA) from a number of countries including Ukraine, China, Russia and India and I've never had any problems.



ButtermilkJa said:


> €600 for a professionally designed website is _very_ low in my opinion.


 
Are you a web developer?

€600 for a brochure website is not very low. 

I'm sorry, but there is no need to hire an Irish person for web development work. You can save a fortune by outsourcing to a foreigner.

Again, I'm a web developer myself. I'm just being honest about the industry.



ButtermilkJa said:


> As pointed out by _sinbadsailor_, there is a big difference between 'designer' and 'developer'. It is very rare that you get a competent developer that has quality design skills and experience, and vice versa. Compromising can be dangerous and expensive.


 
I agree somewhat. But again, you can offshore the coding and design work for peanuts.



ButtermilkJa said:


> Some people may think €600 is a lot because it may take a developer a matter of hours to put together a brochure site, but what will that site look like? Will it look good, professional, will the font usage be clearly thought out, will the colour scheme be thought through? Will the images be adequate? If you build it in standards compliant html/css how long are you going to spend debugging it in IE? Are you going to charge for these hours as well?


 
You seem to think only Irish people can do this. I assure you people in other countries also have technical skills. They just have lower wages.

Lower national wages does not mean poor skills.



ButtermilkJa said:


> Most businesses would easily spend €600 on a print advert in a newspaper which is gone after a day. Why not spend more on a website that will be available 24/7 for years?


 
I agree. I have no problem with companies who want to spend a lot for local work (or whatever way they want to spend money.)

The OP has said he wants to keep his costs to a minimum, and I am letting him know how he can do this


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## Nedtastic (26 Oct 2007)

Use your 600 quid to do a course in FrontPage .... Money well spent and you can do IT yourself .... You'd be surprised how easy it is. The only drawback is that IT is time consuming, specially if you are starting up a business.


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## ButtermilkJa (26 Oct 2007)

Flax said:


> That's rubbish. I could name a very large famous Irish website which is developed in Belarus.
> 
> There are no obstacles. I've been using off shore workers (developers and QA) from a number of countries including Ukraine, China, Russia and India and I've never had any problems.


I see your point, but in fairness you are a developer. You know the playing field. You know what questions to ask and how to get the results you want from the offshore developers. I would think it would be more difficult for someone without any web/design/IT knowledge to initiate proceedings with someone by email and to run a project smoothly.

You need an Irish base. If someone wants to approach you and get the job done, and you decide to use offshore developers that's fine, but I just think asking the regular Irish business person to apprach offshore developers directly is not the way to apprach a new project.



Flax said:


> Are you a web developer?
> €600 for a brochure website is not very low.


I am a designer by trade. I can also code html/css for brochure sites but if anyone wants heavy development work I will contract a developer. From your point of view €600 may seem high as you outsource all work, but in the Irish industry I think it is quite low.



Flax said:


> I'm sorry, but there is no need to hire an Irish person for web development work. You can save a fortune by outsourcing to a foreigner.
> 
> Again, I'm a web developer myself. I'm just being honest about the industry.


 I accept your honesty and I agree, perhaps you can save a fortune, but I would rather deal with local industry. I would tell the client how much it is going to cost upfront. If they agree, then I pay a local developer the same. 



Flax said:


> I agree somewhat. But again, you can offshore the coding and design work for peanuts.


So, essentially, are you a middleman? Do you just act as an intermediary between Irish businesses and offshore designers/developers? Sorry, not being smart here, it's just you say you are a developer but that you outsource everything. Do you find this appraoch easier than working as a developer yourself in the Irish industry?



Flax said:


> You seem to think only Irish people can do this. I assure you people in other countries also have technical skills. They just have lower wages.
> Lower national wages does not mean poor skills.


Not at all, I'm sure they are just as competent, and in some cases more competent. I'm not trying to tell you what you're doing is wrong. As a model, it obviously works quite well for you. I am simply defending the Irish web design/development industry as, in my opinion, you seem to be coming out quite hard against it.



Flax said:


> I agree. I have no problem with companies who want to spend a lot for local work (or whatever way they want to spend money.)
> 
> The OP has said he wants to keep his costs to a minimum, and I am letting him know how he can do this


I understand that, and I appreciate your point of view, but when I read comments like "I'm sorry, but there is no need to hire an Irish person for web development work" I feel i have to defend the industry in which I earn my crust.


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## ButtermilkJa (26 Oct 2007)

Nedtastic said:


> Use your 600 quid to do a course in FrontPage .... Money well spent and you can do IT yourself .... You'd be surprised how easy it is. The only drawback is that IT is time consuming, specially if you are starting up a business.


Whatever about outsourcing, you cannot expect the average business person to put together a website themselves. 'Design' is the most important aspect of any website - along with good content of course. Design is something you are either born with, or aquire over years of experience.

If you spend €600 on a Frontpage course and put together a poorly designed website, no-one will ever come back to see it twice. That is €600 wasted.


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## forumfiend (27 Oct 2007)

A "good" website doesn't have to be complicated. If your business is such that €600 is a lot of money, then you are more than likely in the market for something relatively simple. 

I agree with the other replies that suggest you look at the content before the implementation. There is always a temptation to jump straight into the "how" -- development, hosting, outsourcing, graphics, learning FrontPage, coding, etc. But first you need to look at the "why" and the "what": why do you want a website, what do you want it to say about you and your business, what is your intended audience and what messages do you want to convey to them, etc.  This needn't cost you anything because nobody is in a better position to do it than yourself, but if you haven't got the skills and you want someone to advise you then you will obviously have to pay for that advice. Offshore or local, it will be a miracle if you can get that advice and get the site implemented within your €600 budget.

Regarding costs, surely it would be better to spend, say, €1500 on a website that is of value rather than €600 on something that does nothing more than say "I have a website". In short, consider your return on investment rather than simply cost alone.


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## boskonay (27 Oct 2007)

Many hosts offer simple 'site builder' tools - free with the hosting solution you bought. I know digiweb do, as do hosting365.com, etc.

You choose from a range of templates, then pop in your logo, pictures and content. Is more than good enough for a basic web presence and you feel you can justify more spend on something more unique.

HTH,
Steve


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## Fintan (27 Oct 2007)

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on setting up you wesbite why don't use a service like:



All hosting, domain registration and web design taken care for you.


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## ButtermilkJa (27 Oct 2007)

I've just visited that site and apart from the rather bland design, some of the links aren't working. Wouldn't strike me with a lot of confidence to use a company like that to be honest.


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## boskonay (27 Oct 2007)

I would recommend http://www.sitestogo.biz/ if you want a 'hand held' basic site, with hosting, domain, support, etc, all wrapped into one. Sitestogo are around for years now and have literally hundreds and hundreds of sites done.


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## Fintan (28 Oct 2007)

ButtermilkJa said:


> I've just visited that site and apart from the rather bland design, some of the links aren't working. Wouldn't strike me with a lot of confidence to use a company like that to be honest.



That's very strange I couldn't find any links that didn't work. 

Don't get me wrong, I think the OP is crazy not to hire a professional to design a custom website, but you always get people who want a website, but dont want to pay for it, hence the suggestion.


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## ButtermilkJa (28 Oct 2007)

When you are on the Contact page and you click the 'Prices' button on the right, you get a 404.

But, yes, I know what you mean, there will always be people who just want a website for their business but don't realise that a bad website drives customers away, and so don't pay professionals to do it.

But fair enough, you are giving a suggestion to the OPs query so I can't argue with you on that front.


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## Peter McC (29 Jan 2008)

Hi, I know this thread is a little out of date but I just came across it and noticed our low-cost website (StarterWebsites.net) is mentioned. At the time of the last post the site was a certainly under developed. We decided to just put it up to see what the response would be like (sometimes you just gotta' do these things!). We're happy to say the response to the service has been positive. 

All the links are now working and we've uploaded phase 2 development of the site. It's a little less bland and a lot more informative.

Anyway, enough of that; for the OP, if you want to really cut costs you could do worse than start with a blogging tool like WordPress. I'm certain you will have access to a free WordPress blog with your hosting account plan.

It may not be the perfect tool for your long-term needs but sometimes it's better to just put something out there to get a feel for it. It's a really cheap way to build your experience of using the internet for marketing and promotion and it might give you some insight into what it takes to maintain and update a website.

I hope you've already found a suitable solution, but if not maybe you'll consider the blog idea. 

All the best!
Peter.


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## sinbadsailor (29 Jan 2008)

It never ceases to amaze me how a storm can brew up over website development prices.

The simple fact of the matter is that the people who are asking for the service are doing so because they don't know how to do it themselves. This implies that they don't fully understand whats involved in building a website.

If someone can give you a website in a very quick period of time, then they should be cheap because you are getting a templated solution, with general formatting and a few images. Or at the very best a highly configurable generated site. Either way, the effort does not warrant a high sum!

Quality websites are not cheap, not quick and do involve considerable time to develop. Quality graphics do not just appear at the click of a mouse in photoshop. People deserve to be paid for their skills in such areas.

My suggestion to anyone who wants a cheap website for a brochure site is to go and buy a book on HTML/CSS and read it. You will be able to knock out a website in your own time and get exactly what you want. If at the end that you don't like the look of it then go looking for someone to put a nice face on what you have created.

And yes, I am a experienced software engineer, not just a backstreet, inyousparetime web developer. Quality service has a cost!


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## rabbit (30 Jan 2008)

sinbadsailor said:


> Quality service has a cost!


 
True, but firing coconuts at a monkey does not always produce quality results.   I made the mistake of paying someone - an Irish web design company - thousands for a so called website once, and I was totally ripped off.  In contrast, years later, I got far better service and quality from a cheaper person.  It pays to shop around.


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## RainyDay (30 Jan 2008)

sinbadsailor said:


> My suggestion to anyone who wants a cheap website for a brochure site is to go and buy a book on HTML/CSS and read it. You will be able to knock out a website in your own time and get exactly what you want. If at the end that you don't like the look of it then go looking for someone to put a nice face on what you have created.


I don't dispute your main point, but I think your suggestion that busy small-business owners should be spending their time knocking out html and css makes no sense. You're average small-business owner won't buy a book on glazing when they need a broken window fixed. They won't buy the Haynes guide for the Ford Transit when their van needs a service. Spending time on html & css when they can get simple template sites for free, and/or buy in the necessary skills is a waste.


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## Peter McC (30 Jan 2008)

Sure, if you have the luxury of time, fine, get the books out and chip away at it in the evenings, but otherwise just pay for the service.

Small business owners should direct their talents and skills at doing what they can do to promote their product/service and boost their business. Why spend your valuable time tinkering with HTML and CSS when it will save you money (and headaches) in the long run to get a professional to build your website? 

It simply does not make business sense (to me anyway). I went out for a fancy meal the other night. I didn't insist on cooking the chips myself! 

And sure, prices vary, as does service. If you've got to work with a web designer/developer (or whatever), look on it as a long-term relationship and one that you will have to pay for and they will have to work for. We're not the enemy, and sometimes we can be your best business 'partners'. 

Seriously. You may have to look around but if you get someone you can work with (and who can work with you) then great. That's the hard part done.

Bottom line, in most cases a suitable website for your business can help you win more customers and make you money. That's gotta' be worth spending something on, right? 

You may not get everything you want from the outset, depending on your budget, but it's better to get it started now before your clients start asking you for your URL and you don't have one.


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## ButtermilkJa (31 Jan 2008)

I completey agree. I think too many people view web designers/developers as lay-abouts who get paid too much for too little. There is a definite lack of respect for the skill and talent that's out there. Granted there are chancers as well but you get that eveywhere.

Fact is, it's a skill. And one that you don't have so you should be willing to pay for it. Your time and effort would be much better spent on books/courses which make you better at the service you are offering and are qualified to do.

Number one rule is, look at a designers portfolio of recent work.


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## PGD1 (31 Jan 2008)

Hi all,

I am self taught on web creation and design etc. I recently set up a site my myself using Joomla and a number of plugins.

I might have a chance at creating something very similar, but more polished and with a few more features for an organization.

I'm not looking to make a huge sum of money but I will be paid but I'm not sure how much to look for.

Basically it will be Joomla content management, with a forum, some user blog sections and a wiki and some file sharing/downloads. It's all relatively easy to set up in Joomla. The advantage is that I am intimitely familiar with the orgs aims/goals and will be around pretty much 24/7 for them to tweak edit.

I was thinkin of charging X for the creation and then Y for an annual maintenance fee. But I have no idea what X and Y usually are?

Any guidelines based on the above?


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## sinbadsailor (31 Jan 2008)

Well you can't charge anything for the Joomla software itself, being an open source application, only your time implementing and maintaining a solution that uses it.


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## PGD1 (31 Jan 2008)

Yes I am aware of that.

I guess what I'm looking for is is anybody has created a simple-medium complexity joomla site for someody and how much they charged... or how much somebody was charged.

I'm only looking for ballpark here.

I guess there are companies now who are using joomla etc and some templates to churn out sites.

I don't want to charge for my time. They have a tight budget. I would be quite willing to spend quite alot of time maintaining it etc as I know them all well and I would do it jus to help them out. 

So I only want to find out roughly what the going rate is for such a thing so I don't overcharge them.

I'm guessing a static HTML site is anything from 500-1000.
So a simple joomla site is probably 1000-1500.

And  medium complexity joomla site would be 1500-3000?


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## boskonay (31 Jan 2008)

It entirely depends on the site, and the deisgn and coding that goes in to it. We just had a 'relatively' simple static website built for 12 grand.


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