# Mad drivers.



## liaconn (30 Nov 2012)

I was driving down the lane of the M50 this morning leading to the West exit when a driver tore up behind me and must have had to brake at the last minute to avoid ramming my car (which was going at a perfectly normal speed). I got an awful fright and put on my hazard light for a second to warn him to back off a bit. He went into a miming rant, waving his arms around and when he got an opportunity to overtake me was glaring at me and pointing his finger at his head (as in 'you're nuts').

What is wrong with drivers like this? Why is it perfectly okay for them to drive like a lunatic, but totally out of order for anyone to object to their behaviour?


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## MrMan (30 Nov 2012)

Looking for sane behaviour from a lunatic is always going to be a bit of a stretch. i think some people just lose the run of themselves at times, and rationality goes out the window.


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## ajapale (30 Nov 2012)

liaconn said:


> I... put on my hazard light for a second to warn him.


I dont think there is any provision in legislation or the rules of road for use of hazard lights in this way.


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## liaconn (30 Nov 2012)

I know, but I do it now and again if a driver is right up my a*se and making it difficult for me to drive properly. Its better than braking suddenly as some people do, or getting aggressive with them.


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## T McGibney (30 Nov 2012)

ajapale said:


> I dont think there is any provision in legislation or the rules of road for use of hazard lights in this way.



Still a basic & wise self-preservation measure, both with tailgaters and when its necessary to stop or pause on the road, eg when a vehicle ahead is turning right.


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## truthseeker (30 Nov 2012)

liaconn said:


> I know, but I do it now and again if a driver is right up my a*se and making it difficult for me to drive properly. Its better than braking suddenly as some people do, or getting aggressive with them.



I do it too, makes them stop and think 'something must be wrong', yeah, something is wrong alright - your driving!!!

You do get terrible nutjobs on the road alright. Its bizarre how being behind the wheel affects people. 

I got done for speeding a few months ago, and am now particularly careful on the stretch in question. Last week I was doing exactly the speed limit on it with a Dublin Bus up my behind, flashing his headlights in through my back windscreen and trying to bully me to go faster. We came level with each other where I was taking a turn at lights and the driver shook his fist at me? What was that all about? I wasnt gonna speed and risk another ticket because he was behind schedule!


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## gillarosa (30 Nov 2012)

liaconn said:


> I know, but I do it now and again if a driver is right up my a*se and making it difficult for me to drive properly. Its better than braking suddenly as some people do, or getting aggressive with them.


 
Putting on your hazard lights for a non hazardous situation is on the same level as the above. As a driver you have to be prepared for all and every possible sitiation, not have an equally crazy response at the ready when you are unhappy with how another driver is driving.


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## MrMan (30 Nov 2012)

gillarosa said:


> Putting on your hazard lights for a non hazardous situation is on the same level as the above. As a driver you have to be prepared for all and every possible sitiation, not have an equally crazy response at the ready when you are unhappy with how another driver is driving.



How can aggressive driving causing others to not properly concentrate on the road not be viewed as hazardous?


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## terrontress (30 Nov 2012)

Were you overtaking someone? If you drive in the leftmost lane you will not have such an issue. If you are overtaking someone you should be using your indicators to do so and should not use your hazard warning lights as they will cancel out indication of your manoeuvre.


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## Leper (30 Nov 2012)

The common denominator in all of the aforementioned cases is bullying by some drivers.  All you got to do is ring the Garda Traffic lines and once you get the registration number of the bully the Gardai (although not prosecuting there and then) can record the person and vehicle for future observation.  The bullying on you does not count but it alerts the Gardaí as to the type of driver to look out for.  It works.


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## truthseeker (30 Nov 2012)

Leper said:


> All you got to do is ring the Garda Traffic lines and once you get the registration number of the bully the Gardai (although not prosecuting there and then) can record the person and vehicle for future observation.



Last time I reported a driver for dangerous driving I did so in a station, the Guard was more concerned that his order of chicken sezchuan be taken correctly and wrote down the details I gave him on a scrap of paper and then said there was nothing he could do because it was going to be my word against someone elses.


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## liaconn (30 Nov 2012)

gillarosa said:


> Putting on your hazard lights for a non hazardous situation is on the same level as the above. As a driver you have to be prepared for all and every possible sitiation, not have an equally crazy response at the ready when you are unhappy with how another driver is driving.



Are you for real.?? How exactly am I supposed to be prepared for someone driving up my tail? What is crazy about flashing my hazard lights to warn someone theyre too close?


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## liaconn (30 Nov 2012)

No I was driving in front of him in the correct lane for taking the west exit.

 Sorry, reply to terrontress. Still gob smacked at gillarossas reply.


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## BillK (30 Nov 2012)

If saomeone is driving too close to the rear of my car, I switch on my rear foglights. This tends to make people back off without risking them ramming the back of the car, as could be the case if I tapped my brakes.


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## truthseeker (30 Nov 2012)

gillarosa said:


> Putting on your hazard lights for a non hazardous situation is on the same level as the above.



You must have misread the OP. Driving up someones behind on a motorway *IS* a hazardous situation.


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## Delboy (30 Nov 2012)

truthseeker said:


> I got done for speeding a few months ago, and am now particularly careful on the stretch in question. Last week I was doing exactly the speed limit on it with a Dublin Bus up my behind, flashing his headlights in through my back windscreen and trying to bully me to go faster. We came level with each other where I was taking a turn at lights and the driver shook his fist at me? What was that all about? I wasnt gonna speed and risk another ticket because he was behind schedule!



well, your obviously not a Judge, work for rte, are a politician or are a well known sports personality !!!!
[broken link removed]


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## truthseeker (1 Dec 2012)

Delboy said:


> well, your obviously not a Judge, work for rte, are a politician or are a well known sports personality !!!!
> [broken link removed]



I was on a quiz show that Ryan Tubridy presented once, does that count?


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## Complainer (1 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Last time I reported a driver for dangerous driving I did so in a station, the Guard was more concerned that his order of chicken sezchuan be taken correctly and wrote down the details I gave him on a scrap of paper and then said there was nothing he could do because it was going to be my word against someone elses.


Isn't pretty much every court case a case of one person's word against someone else's?


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## truthseeker (1 Dec 2012)

Complainer said:


> Isn't pretty much every court case a case of one person's word against someone else's?



I think he meant that there were no witnesses or evidence, cctv etc.. literally just me saying 'He did a dangerous thing' and the other driver saying 'No I didnt'.

But I did think they would take note of the reg plate. They didnt.


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## Complainer (1 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> I think he meant that there were no witnesses or evidence, cctv etc.. literally just me saying 'He did a dangerous thing' and the other driver saying 'No I didnt'.
> 
> But I did think they would take note of the reg plate. They didnt.



There is a witness - you! I'm not getting at you of course, I'm getting at him. He took the easy way out. I've had some success using the Garda Trafficwatch phone line. You log the issue initially with their call centre staff, and then it gets transferred (by fax - hello 1983!) to the relevant station. I get the impression that there is a bit of pressure somewhere to follow up on the logged issues.


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## Teatime (3 Dec 2012)

Anyone notice how crazy drivers become as soon as December starts?
Every year it's the same. People just have no patience and do crazy manoeuvres.


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## Leper (3 Dec 2012)

Common Sense is not so common among drivers in Ireland.


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## BillK (3 Dec 2012)

Common Sense generally is an oxymoron!


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## Niallman (5 Dec 2012)

Teatime said:


> Anyone notice how crazy drivers become as soon as December starts?
> Every year it's the same. People just have no patience and do crazy manoeuvres.


 
You're dead right! Just noticed December idiot-driving kicking off at the weekend when I had to go over to Liffey Valley. Absolute mayhem driving around there and it becomes a complete free for all in the car park as to what direction people can drive in. The arrows are only rough guidelines it would seem.


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## geri (5 Dec 2012)

I was leaving Blanchardstown shopping centre carpark on Saturday at around 2:30 pm.  Two drivers looking for a space noticed me getting into my car.  The both frantically tried to get to the space first, and ended up in a stand-off while at the same time blocking me from getting out.  One of them got out of their car and started shouting at the other.  I eventually opened my window and asked if someone could move to let me out.  So one of them gave in and left. Hillarious.......  As we drove off my four year old son shook his head said "they weren't very nice ladies"..........


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## gillarosa (11 Dec 2012)

MrMan said:


> How can aggressive driving causing others to not properly concentrate on the road not be viewed as hazardous?


 
We only have the OP's version of events re the degree of danger or hazard the other driver may have caused, therefore not the entire truth of the situation. While he / she has clearly stated they incorrectly use their hazard warning lights. Its not only that driver who has annoyed you who is aware of the lights, it incorrectly warns others of dangers which they could anticipate to a crash ahead/breakdown/dangerous conditions.


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## Sunny (11 Dec 2012)

Personally I would make every driver resit the driving test every 5 years. Everyone talks about learner drivers but at least they generally understand the rules of the road even if they make mistakes. The next time a car drives up my This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language flashing his lights in the overtaking lane while I am doing the speed limit and overtaking a car, I will lose it. News flash for people. It's an overtaking lane. Not a fast lane where the speed limit doesn't apply. Has happened three times in past two weeks.


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## Leo (11 Dec 2012)

Sunny said:


> Personally I would make every driver resit the driving test every 5 years.


 
But idiots will just temper their idiocy for the 30 minutes or whetever the test will take. The vast majority of people I see driving like this are alone in the car.


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## TarfHead (11 Dec 2012)

geri said:


> .. leaving Blanchardstown shopping centre carpark on Saturday at around 2:30 pm. Two drivers looking for a space ..


 
Arriving in Blanchardstown at 2:30 on a Saturday in December and hoping to be able to park your car .. that's another form of madness  !


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## MrMan (11 Dec 2012)

gillarosa said:


> We only have the OP's version of events re the degree of danger or hazard the other driver may have caused, therefore not the entire truth of the situation. While he / she has clearly stated they incorrectly use their hazard warning lights. Its not only that driver who has annoyed you who is aware of the lights, it incorrectly warns others of dangers which they could anticipate to a crash ahead/breakdown/dangerous conditions.



So using your hazards makes others possibly slow down; i don't see how this equals driving dangerously?


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## mandelbrot (11 Dec 2012)

Sunny said:


> Personally I would make every driver resit the driving test every 5 years. Everyone talks about learner drivers but at least they generally understand the rules of the road even if they make mistakes. The next time a car drives up my This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language flashing his lights in the overtaking lane while I am doing the speed limit and overtaking a car, I will lose it. News flash for people. It's an overtaking lane. Not a fast lane where the speed limit doesn't apply. Has happened three times in past two weeks.



Were you heeding those rules of the road which you're so fond of...?


*How to overtake safely*



Make sure the road ahead is clear so you have enough distance to allow       you to overtake and get back to your own side of the road without forcing       any other road user to move to avoid you.
Never directly follow another overtaking vehicle.
*Give way to faster traffic already overtaking from behind.*
Before overtaking check that the way is clear, check in your mirror and       blind spots to ensure another vehicle is not approaching from behind.       Give your signal in good time, move out when it is safe to do so,       accelerate and overtake with the minimum of delay.
When you are well past, check the mirror, signal and gradually move in       again making sure not to cut across the vehicle you have passed.
Take extra care when overtaking a vehicle displaying a "LONG VEHICLE"       sign. This means that the vehicle is at least 13 metres long and you will       need extra road length to pass it and safely return to the left-hand side of       the road.


Sounds to me like you possibly were being that person who so annoys me on the motorway, the one who saunters out into the overtaking lane ignoring the fact that I am already out there and approaching rapidly, due to my terrible punctuality...


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## Sunny (11 Dec 2012)

Eh no I wasn't actually. I was overtaking a row of about 4-5 cars so I had no where safe to pull back into until after I had overtaken the last car. If you had bothered reading my post before posting your useless comment, you would have seen I have said I was doing the speed limit. Yielding to faster traffic does not mean giving way to people doing 160 or 180kmh on the motorway. As long as I am overtaking, I am perfectly entitled to be in that lane. 

You are obviously one of those drivers who annoy me so much who think that lane is a driving lane where you can stay in that lane as long as they like and go whatever speed you want. No one is obligated to break the speed limit or change lanes dangerously to get out of your way.


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## delgirl (12 Dec 2012)

mandelbrot said:


> Sounds to me like you possibly were being that person who so annoys me on the motorway, the one who saunters out into the overtaking lane ignoring the fact that I am already out there and approaching rapidly.


In fairness to mandelbrot, there are a lot of very bad motorway drivers out there who do exactly this and worse.

The number of drivers who think it's ok to sit in the middle lane of the M50 where there are 3 lanes doing 80kph or less is astonishing, forcing drivers who are in the left lane doing 100kph to cross two lanes to overtake them.

There are many drivers who sit in the overtaking lane of two lane motorways who are not actually overtaking, i.e. no cars in the left had lane, and are travelling at 80kph or 100kph and will not move into the left hand lane.

I've driven in loads of different countries around the world and this seems to be peculiar to drivers on Irish roads. Perhaps it stems from the fact that there were no motorways here until relatively recently and that driving lessions / tests don't include motorway driving.


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## truthseeker (12 Dec 2012)

delgirl said:


> The number of drivers who think it's ok to sit in the middle lane of the M50 where there are 3 lanes doing 80kph or less is astonishing, forcing drivers who are in the left lane doing 100kph to cross two lanes to overtake them.



Im not sure I understand this? 
Surely if someone is doing 80 in the middle lane and someone in the left lane is doing 100, the person in the left lane doesnt bother crossing 2 lanes to overtake? Ive never seen this. Otherwise you would have a constant diagonal swerve of cars around the slower one in the middle lane - it just doesnt happen - or at least, Ive never seen it.


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## mandelbrot (12 Dec 2012)

Jeez, defensive much?! 



Sunny said:


> Eh no I wasn't actually. I was overtaking a row of about 4-5 cars so I had no where safe to pull back into until after I had overtaken the last car.


 That's fair enough, but that's not clear from your previous post. Hence I said "Sounds to me like you possibly were being..."



Sunny said:


> If you had bothered reading my post before posting your useless comment, you would have seen I have said I was doing the speed limit. Yielding to faster traffic does not mean giving way to people doing 160 or 180kmh on the motorway. As long as I am overtaking, I am perfectly entitled to be in that lane.


Read the rules of the road - it says give way to faster traffic, which includes traffic exceeding the speed limit. 



Sunny said:


> You are obviously one of those drivers who annoy me so much who think that lane is a driving lane where you can stay in that lane as long as they like and go whatever speed you want. No one is obligated to break the speed limit or change lanes dangerously to get out of your way.


 It's not obvious what kind of driver I am at all from a single post on AAM, so I'll be clear - I use the overtaking lane for overtaking, when I'm not overtaking I pull in to the furthest left lane.
But equally if I choose to drive 130 - 135kmh then I can, as long as I'm willing to take the consequences of it, which shouldn't include you deciding I'm going too fast so you're going to pull out in front of me when I'm approaching from behind in the overtaking lane.

The way I was taught, and the way the RSA TV ads tell it, when overtaking traffic, you aren't supposed to pull in until you're a safe distance in front of the vehicle you've overtaken, so quite often you actually should stay in the outer lane if there's less than say a hundred yards (and closing) between that vehicle and the next one you're going to overtake.

That's not the same as using the overtaking lane as a driving lane, it's avoiding weaving between lanes. And that's the situation I'm talking about, where someone in the inside lane decides to pull out and overtake, forcing the person already in the outside lane to brake hard, and it's irrelevant who is driving what speed.


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## delgirl (12 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Im not sure I understand this?
> Surely if someone is doing 80 in the middle lane and someone in the left lane is doing 100, the person in the left lane doesnt bother crossing 2 lanes to overtake? Ive never seen this. Otherwise you would have a constant diagonal swerve of cars around the slower one in the middle lane - it just doesnt happen - or at least, Ive never seen it.


AFAIK it's illegal to undertake on the left unless the vehicle in the right hand lane is doing less that 40mph or 60kph or there is a traffic jam with stop/start traffic.

According to RSA.ie:

*You may overtake on the left when*
- You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right;
- You have signalled that you intend to turn left;
- Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is​moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

*It also says:*

You must normally drive in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway. 

You may use the outer lane of a two-lane or three-lane dual carriageway only:
- for overtaking;
- when intending to turn right a short distance ahead.

Dangerous overtaking 2 points and 5 on conviction with €80 or €120 on conviction
Failure to drive on the left-hand side of the road 1 point and 3 on conviction €60 fine €90 on conviction.

It does happen on the M50, but a lot of people don't bother and just use the left hand lane to pass slow traffic in the middle lane.

My OH is a culprit when it comes to hogging the overtaking lane and was pulled over by the Garda Traffic Unit and told off for driving in the overtaking lane even though he was driving at the speend limit. Result!


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## truthseeker (12 Dec 2012)

The above goes all funny when I try to quote it.

This 





> Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.


is what tends to happen.

I wasnt commenting on the legality of this in my earlier post btw, I was just commenting that I never see people bothering to cross 2 lanes to overtake a slow car in the middle lane and if it were common we would be seeing a rolling roadblock of diagonal swerve around the slow car by everyone in the left lane - and thats not a common sight.

I agree that in general Irish people drive badly on motorways.


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## delgirl (12 Dec 2012)

IMO generally knowledge of the rules of the road isn't great here.  

I regularly meet people at junctions and approaching stationary vehicles who don't seem to know who has right of way.

Hopefully the new regulations for learner drivers will help with compulsory lessons from approved driving instructors.

They should, however, include motorway driving as they do in countries like Germany.


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## emmt (12 Dec 2012)

I drive on the M1 twice a day at rush hour. The problem I find is that when you pull back into the inside lane after overtaking, cars in the overtaking lane then won't let you back out to overtake the next car you need to overtake. So people stay out in the overtaking lane.

Coming down the slip road onto the motorway with a view of both lanes, there is generally at least 5 times more cars on the outside lane than on the inside lane - a steady ribbon of cars overtaking versus cars dotted here and there on the left lane.


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## liaconn (17 Dec 2012)

gillarosa said:


> We only have the OP's version of events re the degree of danger or hazard the other driver may have caused, therefore not the entire truth of the situation. While he / she has clearly stated they incorrectly use their hazard warning lights. Its not only that driver who has annoyed you who is aware of the lights, it incorrectly warns others of dangers which they could anticipate to a crash ahead/breakdown/dangerous conditions.


 
I think a car speeding up behind you and breaking at the last minute is of a high enough degree of danger to warrant flashing of hazard lights to warn him to back off.

Are you sure you're not the driver in question? You seem very anxious to defend this type of agressive, intimidating and dangerously distracting driving.


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## Firefly (17 Dec 2012)

Came up the lights at the Kinsale Road roundabout in Cork yest and the lights turned Amber (about 15 yards ahead of me). I breaked and came to a stop and Man in the White Van behind me blows the horn! I look in the rear-view mirror and he's throwing his arms up & down, effing & blinding at me. _"Sorry for not breaking the law for you dude"_


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## Leo (17 Dec 2012)

liaconn said:


> I think a car speeding up behind you and breaking at the last minute is of a high enough degree of danger to warrant flashing of hazard lights to warn him to back off.


 
Not so, they should only be used in case of accident or emergency. Using hazard lights in the circumstances above is misleading to other traffic, and so potentially dangerous. It also won't achieve anything, the idiot behind already knows you're there.... Flashing hazard lights isn't going to make them see the light of day. 

Also from smaple theory test questions, if another driver upsets you, you should try not to react.


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## roker (17 Dec 2012)

Probably the same white van that went in to rage on the Kinsale roundabout because I followed the dotted line markings to change lane.


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## truthseeker (17 Dec 2012)

Leo said:


> Not so, they should only be used in case of accident or emergency.



If someone is dangerously driving up your behind it is an emergency! You use the hazards to say "TOO NEAR BACK OFF!!!". It usually does the trick without upsetting anyone.


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## DerKaiser (17 Dec 2012)

Firefly said:


> Came up the lights at the Kinsale Road roundabout in Cork yest and the lights turned Amber (about 15 yards ahead of me). I breaked and came to a stop and Man in the White Van behind me blows the horn! I look in the rear-view mirror and he's throwing his arms up & down, effing & blinding at me. _"Sorry for not breaking the law for you dude"_



I was walking to work last week and was waiting to cross a road at lights. Three cars continued through the traffic lights after they had turned red, at that stage the green man had even come up. The fourth car then stopped suddenly, having decided he was pushing it....screech...bang...fifth car into the back of the fourth car!

So, considering the chancers out there, you're lucky you only got beeped!


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## Leper (18 Dec 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> I was walking to work last week and was waiting to cross a road at lights. Three cars continued through the traffic lights after they had turned red, at that stage the green man had even come up. The fourth car then stopped suddenly, having decided he was pushing it....screech...bang...fifth car into the back of the fourth car!
> 
> So, considering the chancers out there, you're lucky you only got beeped!


 
Thank you Kaiser, You've made my day already . . . most Irish drivers know every driving rule in the book, crash every traffic light, could not care a whit about anybody else and lack simple courtesy. Long may they continue swapping paint . . .

Sooner or later they will all learn that driving is not just about breaking the land speed record between red traffic lights.


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## Firefly (18 Dec 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> I was walking to work last week and was waiting to cross a road at lights. Three cars continued through the traffic lights after they had turned red, at that stage the green man had even come up. The fourth car then stopped suddenly, having decided he was pushing it....screech...bang...fifth car into the back of the fourth car!
> 
> So, considering the chancers out there, you're lucky you only got beeped!


 
That means the fifth car thought he'd get through too  - Merry Christmas to the pair of them


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## IsleOfMan (18 Dec 2012)

The pedestrian lights just outside Oatlands College on the Stillorgan are the worst for the red light crashers. The cars drive down from Mount Merrion and straight through them. I think it is more a case of the drivers not noticing them because the next set of lights are very close and these are usually green when the pedestrian lights are red.
I have noticed as well the side doors of cars being dented/scraped by thoughtless drivers who park their cars in shopping centres.


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## Liamos (18 Dec 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> I was walking to work last week and was waiting to cross a road at lights. Three cars continued through the traffic lights after they had turned red, at that stage the green man had even come up. The fourth car then stopped suddenly, having decided he was pushing it....screech...bang...fifth car into the back of the fourth car!
> 
> So, considering the chancers out there, you're lucky you only got beeped!



Its got to the stage now, where when crossing the road i don't rely on the green man at all. I just assume that the next car is going to crash the redlight.


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## Leo (18 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> If someone is dangerously driving up your behind it is an emergency! You use the hazards to say "TOO NEAR BACK OFF!!!". It usually does the trick without upsetting anyone.


 
It's dangerous driving, not an emergency under any definition of the term, let alone road traffic legislation.


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## ajapale (18 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> If someone is dangerously driving up your behind it is an emergency! You use the hazards to say "TOO NEAR BACK OFF!!!". It usually does the trick without upsetting anyone.



I have a problem with the use of hazard lights in this non standard way.

In a moving situation there are four blinking hazard lights.

What message is on coming traffic getting?

In a situation like this one or other of the hazards may be temporarily obscured. - The flashing hazard now looks like an indicator light. What are other road users to make of that signal?

Some one here suggested tapping the breaks resulting in the break lights flashing. This would have the same effect as above and would be fully compliant with the rules of the road.

Out of interest what do the ROTR have to say about the use of hazard lights in a moving situation?


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## truthseeker (18 Dec 2012)

ajapale said:


> I have a problem with the use of hazard lights in this non standard way......What message is on coming traffic getting?



Perhaps you could provide a link to standard use of hazard lights? 

Given that the OP described a lane on the M50, I sincerely hope there was no oncoming traffic.



ajapale said:


> Some one here suggested tapping the breaks resulting in the break lights flashing. This would have the same effect as above and would be fully compliant with the rules of the road.



I wouldnt advise tapping brakes while on the M50 in traffic!


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## Leo (18 Dec 2012)

ajapale said:


> Out of interest what do the ROTR have to say about the use of hazard lights in a moving situation?


 
I got the line that they 'should only be used in case of accident or emergency' from the ROTR. That was the only reference to their use.


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## Leper (18 Dec 2012)

I agree, appalling use of hazard lights. Two wrongs never made a right.


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## liaconn (19 Dec 2012)

I agree it's not ideal. But what are the choices? Allow someone to drive dangerously close to you knowing that if you have to stop suddenly they are going to crash into you? Press on the brake suddenly when someone is already practically up your a*se? Seriously, what are the alternatives?


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## terrontress (19 Dec 2012)

liaconn said:


> I agree it's not ideal. But what are the choices? Allow someone to drive dangerously close to you knowing that if you have to stop suddenly they are going to crash into you? Press on the brake suddenly when someone is already practically up your a*se? Seriously, what are the alternatives?


 
In that situation I would either move over to a lane on the left if I were sitting in the middle or rightmost lane without reason. If I were in the leftmost lane I would take my foot off the accelerator, reducing speed and let the driver behind overtake.

Hazard warning lights are not appropriate in that situation.


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## Leo (19 Dec 2012)

liaconn said:


> I agree it's not ideal. But what are the choices? Allow someone to drive dangerously close to you knowing that if you have to stop suddenly they are going to crash into you? Press on the brake suddenly when someone is already practically up your a*se? Seriously, what are the alternatives?


 
I know it's not easy, it's something that really annoys me too, but the best thing to do is to ignore them, and keep your focus on what's ahead of you. If you hit another car because you are distracted by a lunatic behind, you are 100% responsible.


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## liaconn (19 Dec 2012)

It is impossible to ignore a driver that's right on your tail. You have to be extra alert to them as any sudden stop on your part could cause them to crash into you. This means you have less attention to pay to other things going on. That is far more dangerous than a quick flash of the hazard lights to warn someone to back off (and people usually get the message).

Like I said,  not ideal, but I will continue to do it, particularly when I have my young nephews and nieces in the back of the car. There is just no suitable alternative. Obviously if there's a place to move aside and let the idiot pass me out, that's fine. But if you're in the lane of the motorway you need to be in to make your exit, that's not an option.


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## Leper (19 Dec 2012)

It's never the wrong time to do the right thing per Willie O'Dea. And hope somebody else learns by your example.


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## Leo (19 Dec 2012)

liaconn said:


> It is impossible to ignore a driver that's right on your tail. You have to be extra alert to them as any sudden stop on your part could cause them to crash into you. This means you have less attention to pay to other things going on. That is far more dangerous than a quick flash of the hazard lights to warn someone to back off (and people usually get the message).


 
It's not impossible, I do it regularly, and I'm not going to pretend I have some specialy ability or skill in being able to do so. I don't see how paying attention to someone behind you can do anything other than make you less aware of what's happening in front of you, and therefore more likely to crash into something else. It doesn't matter how alert you are to someone behind you, your stopping distance remains the same. If you focus on what's in front, you are far less likely to need to brake suddenly.


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## MrMan (19 Dec 2012)

I was once smashed into by a car from behind, so I would suggest that it is worth keeping an eye on whats going on behind you as well, there's a rearview mirrior there for a reason. 
Also, if a driver cannot distinguish between an indicator and hazard lights, then they should book themselves in for an eye test before they cause an accident.
Flashing your hazards will make someone take notice that something is wrong and slow down.


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## truthseeker (19 Dec 2012)

MrMan said:


> I was once smashed into by a car from behind, so I would suggest that it is worth keeping an eye on whats going on behind you as well, there's a rearview mirrior there for a reason.
> *Also, if a driver cannot distinguish between an indicator and hazard lights, then they should book themselves in for an eye test before they cause an accident.*
> Flashing your hazards will make someone take notice that something is wrong and slow down.



I can honestly say, in 20 years of driving, Ive never personally confused the two, nor heard any anecdotal stories of it happening to anyone, or read about it in any newspaper or media source.


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## Birroc (19 Dec 2012)

The rules in Galway are as follows:

Hazard/Warning lights to say thank you (or I am changing a puncture)

Fog Light to say to car behind you are blinding me with those full beams

Left Indicator on for 3 seconds followed by Right Indicator on for 3 seconds followed by nothing = I have no idea where I am so back away because I am liable to do anything

Handbrake up slowly while moving (i.e. no brake lights) to say to the car behind that he/she is too close and almost crashed into you. If he does hit you, look astonished and ask for insurance details.

All lights off on dark night for 1-2 seconds = to say to all drivers that you are a loon and to be careful, expect the unexpected

Full Beams on for oncoming traffic = you waited too long before dipping your lights, its payback

Flash of Full Beams during daylight = How's it going me oul flower or horsebox (or Gardai up ahead chief)

And never ever use indicators anywhere near roundabouts - always keep your options open...


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## Leper (20 Dec 2012)

Well said Birroc, as they say on the X-Factor "You nailed it."


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## terrontress (20 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> I can honestly say, in 20 years of driving, Ive never personally confused the two, nor heard any anecdotal stories of it happening to anyone, or read about it in any newspaper or media source.


 
I have many times. Someone parks and sticks on their hazard lights, thinking it as an excuse to park badly. Someone else parks behind them and slightly to the left and all I can see is one side's flashing indicators. Thinking they are pulling out, I slow to allow them to move out and realise as I get closer there is nobody in the driver's seat.

If you have never come upon this in twenty years you are either a very infrequent or else a very poor sighted driver.


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## AgathaC (20 Dec 2012)

Birroc said:


> The rules in Galway are as follows:
> 
> Hazard/Warning lights to say thank you (or I am changing a puncture)
> 
> ...


Post of the year, for me.


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## DerKaiser (21 Dec 2012)

liaconn said:


> I was driving down the lane of the M50 this morning leading to the West exit when a driver tore up behind me and must have had to brake at the last minute to avoid ramming my car (which was going at a perfectly normal speed). I got an awful fright and put on my hazard light for a second to warn him to back off a bit. He went into a miming rant, waving his arms around and when he got an opportunity to overtake me was glaring at me and pointing his finger at his head (as in 'you're nuts').
> 
> What is wrong with drivers like this? Why is it perfectly okay for them to drive like a lunatic, but totally out of order for anyone to object to their behaviour?



I've been following this thread and I think this is sensible use of the hazard lights given the situation.


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## delgirl (21 Dec 2012)

Birroc said:


> The rules in Galway are as follows:
> 
> Hazard/Warning lights to say thank you (or I am changing a puncture)
> 
> ...


Brilliant Birroc!   I'm glad I don't live in Galway!


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