# Direct Debit - A year on



## Jorus (3 Jun 2008)

Hi,

Just wondering if i could get some advice:

I had a DD with a gym but cancelled it last year (with both parties).  Nothing has happened since until today. 
The gym took out a DD from my account !!! 

I called the bank (ptsb) and told them that this DD was cancelled and why were they allowing the company to take money from my account.  They said that yes the DD was cancelled last year (May 07) and they do not know why the money was taken.  They said more than likely the company never cancelled the DD from their side. 
I assumed that it would not matter if the company cancelled it or not, as shouldnt there be a barr on the account from that company taking money.  The lady i was speaking with said that just because the bank cancel it from your account - that the company can still take money even if it is a year later.  I asked them to refund the money to my account as this is obviously an unauthorized DD.  She said no - that i would have to get the gym to refund it to me.

Is it my responsibility to get the gym to refund the money or should the bank do this?  I am shocked that a company that i used to have a DD with can just go ahead and take money from my account - surely this isnt right.  If you cancel a DD with your bank shouldn't this mean that it is fully cancelled?

What is my next step?   

Thanks


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## ClubMan (3 Jun 2008)

If you have it in writing from both the bank and the payee that the _DD _was considered cancelled then contact the bank again to get the issue rectified at their end since they should not have paid it. If you have a problem them make a formal complaint. If that doesn't help then once you have exhausted the bank's complaints process and obtained a final response letter from them get onto the [broken link removed].


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## Diziet (3 Jun 2008)

Call the Bank and tell them that under the Direct Debit guarantee they have to refund your money and don't take no for an answer. You can cancel a DD unilaterally and of course it is sensible to inform the company. But the company cannot take money on DD without your consent.

Unless this is on a credit card, in which case it is called continuous authority and is a different (and far less pleasant) beastie altogether. Never set up one of these on your credit card as you are effectively handing control to the company.


Diziet


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## GeneralZod (3 Jun 2008)

If the originator can come in and debit using a "cancelled" DD mandate then that's worrying.

I cancelled a couple of DDs in Dec 2006 but for about 15 months after they remained visible in my Ulster Bank on-line banking in "cancelled" state. Were they really ever cancelled or was UB waiting for agreement that never came from the originator that they were cancelled?

I believe there's a rule that automatically cancels a DD if it hasn't been used for a year. Perhaps that's what finally got rid of them from the list of DDs.


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## Diziet (3 Jun 2008)

GeneralZod said:


> If the originator can come in and debit using a "cancelled" DD mandate then that's worrying.



ESATBT tried to do this with my account 3 years after the DD was cancelled! A quick call to the bank (who also said initially to contact the company until I reminded them that it was my money and they were minding it) sorted it out. EsatBT apologised and had no idea why this happened. Mind you, their billing is for the birds


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## Jorus (4 Jun 2008)

Thanks for your replies - i called open 24 again and as you said Diziet - i didnt take no for an answer.  I had to contact my branch after that - and they were alot more helpful than the open 24 call centre - they sorted it out for me - and the money was refunded to me this morning.

The only thing is I do not trust DD now - and i am going to try and stop using DD and just pay bills - when i need to by transfering money myself on-line or with cash.  If DD's can be 'uncancelled' without the bank account holders permission than i dont think i want to chance that happening again.


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## GeneralZod (4 Jun 2008)

Quinn-Life set-up an additional direct debit from my account without my written permission/signature on a mandate form and Ulster Bank allowed them to do this.

I  signed a DD mandate form for Quinn-Life to regularly debit from my account. But when I used the QL on-line interface to change the regular investment premium amount instead of simply debiting by the new premium they set-up a new DD from my account. They now have two DDs on my account. They're only using the new one but the old one is still there. 

Apparently any DD originator with malicious intent could set-up a DD on my account without a signed mandate if they got my account name, number and sort code.

The lack of any control for the consumer on DDs is disturbing. The present appeal after it is abused system is very unfriendly.


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## Gus2008 (5 Jun 2008)

A friend of mine had a similar problem with a Gym. She took out a years membership, and cancelled it at the end but they automatically reinstated her the following year. It was in the small print of her original contract that her membership would be reinstated unless she specifically stated not to. 

Regarding DDs, yes they can still withdraw money from your account even if you've cancelled it. I'm not sure how, but it does happen.


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## vandriver (6 Jun 2008)

I don't know if call centre staff are trained to tell you that you must seek a refund from the dd originator and that they can do nothing,but this was also my experience.When i requested a refund under the dd guarantee the lady i was dealing with seemed to have never heard of it.On pressing the point she got a supervisor who authorised the refund straight away.Persistence pays!


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## GeneralZod (8 Jun 2008)

Paying banks shouldn't have such a cavalier attitude and should be better informed about their  under 's Direct Debit scheme.

The above responsibilities link shows that Quinn-Life by changing the reference field in my Direct Debit  were doing something that is explicitly recommended that an originator shouldn't do. It recommends that it remains the same for the lifetime of the DD.


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## nlgbbbblth (14 Jun 2008)

Direct debits mean that the company / service provider has control over when they get paid - not you.

I've worked in financial services for 14 years and have seen the hassle and misery direct debits can cause when they are processed incorrectly by the originator. 
As a result I pay all my bills by my own means - internet banking, post a cheque etc.

Yes, the Direct Debit Indemnity scheme means that people will be re-imbursed - but not instantly. Frequently people are left with their account in a mess / without funds because, for example, an insurance company has decided to take out the full year's premium instead of monthly instalments.

Or a gym [probably the worst offenders] takes out two years' worth of payments in one go - some 18 months after the arrangement had been supposedly cancelled.

This happened to a friend of mine on the same day of his father's funeral.
As a result he was unable to pay a local hotel the bill for the mourners' soup and sandwiches as his laser card was declined.

Hassle he could have well done without. 

Direct debits: avoid.


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## bond-007 (15 Jun 2008)

Agree 100% with you there. Direct Debits are evil, but many companies will not deal with you without a DD in place. 

The Direct Debit Gaurantee is a joke as no one obeys it. I cancelled a DD to a particular company and they kept processing it each month despite the DD cancelled at the bank. The Bank couldn't care less, not their problem contact company. Only a threat of legal action made the bank change its' tune. 

I have on another occasion ask a bank to cancel the DD, they said they wouldn't as I had not told the originator. They required a copy of the letter sent plus proof of delivery. 

As for DD plus totally avoid as the originator can put new mandates in place if you cancel the old ones in the bank. They are unstoppable.


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## GeneralZod (15 Jun 2008)

bond-007 said:


> DD plus



What do you mean by a DD plus?


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## bond-007 (15 Jun 2008)

DD plus or originator plus. 

This is where the originator has no signed mandate. Usually for companies that deal only by phone. Eg BT, ESB etc.


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## GeneralZod (15 Jun 2008)

Absolutely great if you're running a business that. Wonderful product.

Totally sucks for the consumer.


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## becky (15 Jun 2008)

A friend of mine worked in banks years ago and put me off DD's for life.  I've had one or two because of loan.  I'm lucky in work that my car insurance is deducted from my payslip otherwise I pay large yearly bills by standing order ,cheque, laser or cr card and so far so good.


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