# Question re settlement of estate



## parper (25 May 2007)

Morning all, hoping some of you can offer me a little info!

My father died last year intestate therefore all his assets will be divided equally between myself and my sister. The assets consist of insurance policies and the family home. My sister has previously expressed a desire to buy out my interest in the family home, in which she still resides.

My question is in relation to this house. Should she refuse to buy out my share what are my options? She has preciously said that she is unwilling to but the house on the market. For instance can I insist that our solicitor give all monies from the estate to me in part settlement of my share. I'm nervous that the monies will be divided equally but that I then might have difficulty in getting my share of the house, which makes up the greater part of the estate. I have no access to this house at the moment as my sister and my fathers partner are living there and the locks were changed after my fathers death.

I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on my options.


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## Vanilla (25 May 2007)

Who is the executor?


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## parper (25 May 2007)

Both of us are executors


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## mf1 (25 May 2007)

It sounds like a bit of a mess!  As these things often are. Technically, everything should be sold and the proceeds split. In reality, your sister and your fathers partner are living in the house and they very likely don't want to move and they don't want aggravation or expense. 

The best thing to do is to ask the solicitor not to make any distribution until the entire estate is resolved. If the estate cannot be resolved, you can always resort to the  law. There are always legal solutions and sometimes there is no alternative BUT these cases cause so much upset and distress to the people involved...........Mind you, there would be no need to sue anyone if everyone behaved rationally. 


mf


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## parper (25 May 2007)

Unfortunately rational behavour seems to be in short supply i.e. changing locks on the house first day I left the house after the funeral etc...hence why I'm expecting hassle


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## deem (25 May 2007)

Sorry to hear of your loss.

I thought if a parent died intestate the estate was split 2/3 spouse and 1/3 split between children.

If no spouse then the property should be split between children.  I would think if she is unwilling to purchase your half of property then it would have to be put on market. 

Would there actually be an exector if there was no will?

I would really suggest you see a solicitor to get advise on where to go. Changing the locks after the funeral would suggest that things are going to get nasty.


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## mathepac (12 Jan 2008)

parper said:


> Both of us are executors



Sorry to hear of your loss and ensuing problems.

I know this is an old thread, but I am puzzled. If your late father died intestate, then there are no executors.  Someone needs to be appointed by the courts as the personal representative of the deceased to oversee the cataloguing, collection and distribution of assets and to discharge any liabilities of the estate.

How did you arrive at this juncture?


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## FKH (15 Jan 2008)

If the father died intestate and his wife was dead then the estate will be split equally between the children. Any or all of the children as next of kin can take out a Grant of Representation in the estate. Technically they are administrators of the estate, not executors. There is no need to go to court, there is in effect a list of people entitled to take out a grant of representation in order of closeness of relationship to the deceased.


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## murphaph (25 Jan 2008)

Couldn't the deceased father's partner possibly be his surviving common law wife?


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## trailite (25 Jan 2008)

Any update on your case?
did your sister settle with you?
I am in basically the same situation as yourself
will tell you more if you wish


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## parper (25 Jan 2008)

trailite,

Settlement of the estate is still ongoing (long story but basically I picked a solicitor who hasn't exactly rushed things). Solicitor should have our grant of administration  in the next couple of weeks and can then call in the assets and settle the estate. There has been no change i.r.o. the house i.e. sister still claims to want to buy out my share. Hopefully she will do so but claiming to want to and actually handing over cash are two different things I suspect.


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## juke (25 Jan 2008)

murphaph said:


> Couldn't the deceased father's partner possibly be his surviving common law wife?


 
A common law wife/husband is not recognised in irish law


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## csirl (25 Jan 2008)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *murphaph* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=563694#post563694
> _Couldn't the deceased father's partner possibly be his surviving common law wife?_
> 
> A common law wife/husband is not recognised in irish law


 
Fully agree, this person has zero rights to inheritance in the absence of a will.


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## trailite (25 Jan 2008)

Testing to see if this works. replied but it got lost, so trying again


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## trailite (25 Jan 2008)

Perper,
wrote long reply to you, but it got lost, So keeping this short due to lack of time.

Had same situation as yourself. It has gone on now for eight years with no settlement in sight.
Got a solicitor to write to him, all types of excuses and reasons for not settling. He is now in his 50s, ill health, so we are stuck with him living there and no rent to his two sisters for eight years. We don't even have a key as he too changed the locks.Went years without talking to him. He cut all contact with his siblings.
Eight years of no rent sure adds up in lost revenue.
Have to keep an eye on squatters rights too, as he is now in the house eight years. (12 years) he will have total ownership.
Unable to force him out due to family complications, so cannot go the court route to get out rights.
Sure is a stalemate of a situation so don't let your sister do this to you.
It is reallly hard to fathom what family can do to each other when money or property are involved.


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## mf1 (25 Jan 2008)

"Unable to force him out due to family complications, so cannot go the court route to get out rights."

I have had this situation several times in my office. There are two stark choices for a client- do nothing and let the passage of time allow the situation to turn to his advantage. And the other? Issue Court proceedings. There is nothing like it to concentrate the mind. Yes, its drastic, yes, its upsetting but remember to ask the  question - whose behaviour is precipitating the Court application?

Some of my clients have walked away unable to face the emotional fall out. Some have gone ahead and yes, the situation has been traumatic. But would it be any better if left alone? 

mf


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## murphaph (25 Jan 2008)

juke said:


> A common law wife/husband is not recognised in irish law


Really? I was told the opposite by my solicitor a few years ago. When I was buying my house as a single man the building society was insistent that I get independent legal advice from 2 solicitors vis-a-vis my rights and obligations in the future. 

My solicitor expressly told me that if I hooked up with a girl and let her move in, she could (after an undefined period) claim that she was my common law wife and be entitled to a share in my house.

He didn't just gloss over this point. He dwelled on it for a few minutes as he said it was very important to be aware of.


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## trailite (26 Jan 2008)

*Common Law/and house*

I live in Canada, where the law most likely is not the same as Irish law where common law relationships are concerned.
I do know that having someone move in with you is taken very seriously when a house is involved. (if you own the house) and she/he moves in with you.
To the best of my knowledge it is only six months here, (for someone to stake a claim on your house)
The way relationships go sometimes, it is best to have a pre-nup.
(if that is legal under Irish Law)


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## trailite (26 Jan 2008)

mf1 said:


> "Unable to force him out due to family complications, so cannot go the court route to get out rights."
> 
> I have had this situation several times in my office. There are two stark choices for a client- do nothing and let the passage of time allow the situation to turn to his advantage. And the other? Issue Court proceedings. There is nothing like it to concentrate the mind. Yes, its drastic, yes, its upsetting but remember to ask the question - whose behaviour is precipitating the Court application?
> 
> ...


****************
Thank you MF1 for your legal opinion. Much appreciated.

I can only see myself going ahead with legal route if it comes close to
12 years and nothing has changed. What a sad situation we find ourselves in. Have gone through all kinds of anguish, anger, and finally gave up on him ever settling with us.

As it stands he does not talk to me. He talks to the other sibling because she never gives him grief over it. I am the bad one for even going after him in the first place. (according to him)

He has made many promises, to settle but the answer now is he is not able financially.

I got the legal bill recently  for the letters the solicitor sent to him on our behalf. I was going to send  the bill to him. (but never did).
Fear of how he would take it I guess. I still love him. We were so close it is hard to figure out how this can happen in families.

as I mentioned in prior post family circumstances which I won't go into leave us afraid to pursue this with him in case it gives him a heart attack.

On receiving the solicitor's letter, his reply was for us to go ahead, and sue him,  but if we did, that it would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

My final question to you is a legal one.
Can we go after him for unpaid rent for the past eight years if it goes to court down the road.?
I was tempted to ask him to sign over his share of the house in liu of unpaid rent. (the amount he ownes us in back rent) would almost match what his share would be if the house were sold.
If he did that, then we could allow him to remain in the house knowing at the end we would get what we were willed eight years ago.

I realize it is only a verbal agreement we had with him, as to paying rent, but I do have letters he wrote promising to settle what he ownes us.
Could I do with the money, yes.

 Is it worth it, I don't have an answer but know in my heart I was never going to get anything out of him by asking.


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## murphaph (26 Jan 2008)

trailite said:


> I got the legal bill recently  for the letters the solicitor sent to him on our behalf. I was going to send  the bill to him. (but never did).
> Fear of how he would take it I guess. I still love him. We were so close it is hard to figure out how this can happen in families.
> ..
> 
> On receiving the solicitor's letter, his reply was for us to go ahead, and sue him,  but if we did, that it would be the straw that broke the camel's back.


Dreadful situation to be in. The law can't solve all our problems when it's like this unfortunately. However what he said about breaking him is a dreadful thing to do. It's not a level playing field when they start that. How is his health? Is he really likely to have a heart attack or is he manipulating you? people do awful things when money is involved.


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## trailite (27 Jan 2008)

murphaph said:


> Dreadful situation to be in. The law can't solve all our problems when it's like this unfortunately. However what he said about breaking him is a dreadful thing to do. It's not a level playing field when they start that. How is his health? Is he really likely to have a heart attack or is he manipulating you? people do awful things when money is involved.


**********************************
His health is not the best. Update today from other sibling who is involved 
(she is third share owner) He is going to specialist this coming week and is possibly facing heart surgery.

My original reply to Perper, is don't wait. Get it settled now. I let it slide because of a family (tragic) death of a fourth sibling. This death prevented us moving forward, to settle this. The fear of losing another sibling if we go after him to settle is always there.

It is a wait and see now, for the next few months.

Thank you for all your help and comments. Will post again if anything changes.
Reading through all the posts here lets me see I am not alone.
(which is very sad to see) what money and property can tear families apart.


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