# Paid nothing in 5 years. Judge gives borrower another year to sort it out



## dereko1969 (24 Feb 2016)

> Five years to the day since Rona Browne or her partner paid “a single penny” off a €300,000 mortgage debt, a judge told her today she and her family could live there for another year.




Why do I bother my barney paying my mortgage? Woman goes 5 years without paying a penny and then given another year before she's kicked out! I'm not looking for wholesale evictions but this really takes the biscuit.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...of-over-330000-for-another-year-34482137.html


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## 44brendan (24 Feb 2016)

To be fair she said she will try and negotiate with the bank.


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## Delboy (24 Feb 2016)

Not 'kicked out'...another year to reach a deal!
And even if she doesn't, there'll be at least 6 months more after that


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Feb 2016)

That is outrageous but not unusual from what I have seen in the Registrar's Courts. 


> Browne told the court she had always engaged with the bank but had been unable to reach an agreement with them.  She said her former partner Darren Mahoney had neither engaged with the bank or the court.



The Registrar in Bray would not have put up with that. She would have asked her what sort of agreement was she looking for? That she would pay nothing. 

And there really was no downside at all for her: 



> Judge Ni Chulachain made an order for costs against Mahoney in favour of the bank but made no costs order against Browne.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Feb 2016)

Fair play to Ray Managh and the Indo for highlighting this.  

Most of the reporting is "The banks are being unreasonable" We rarely see reports of the outrageous behaviour of borrowers and how they get away with it.


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## mtk (25 Feb 2016)

Perhaps our friend Lancelot worried about his mortgage on another should  read this thread !


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## Gerry Canning (25 Feb 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Fair play to Ray Managh and the Indo for highlighting this.
> 
> Most of the reporting is "The banks are being unreasonable" We rarely see reports of the outrageous behaviour of borrowers and how they get away with it.



My posts show I have a heathly disreguard for Banks but this looks very very wrong and sadly our judiciary do not have (like god) to explain themselves.
Maybe Judge Ni Chulachain would enlighten us ?

This judgment seems wrong.


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## Clonback (25 Feb 2016)

I suppose this type of carry on results in variable rate mortgage holders being ripped off by the banks.As the late John Healy said ---it's time somebody shouted stop.


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## Bronte (26 Feb 2016)

Clonback said:


> I suppose this type of carry on results in variable rate mortgage holders being ripped off by the banks.As the late John Healy said ---it's time somebody shouted stop.



Well some of us do have to pay for others with increased variable rates for who don't pay their debts, even when they seemingly can but don't want to.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/former-owners-of-moran-s-on-the-weir-hooked-by-property-debt-1.2548333?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/former-owners-of-moran-s-on-the-weir-hooked-by-property-debt-1.2548333


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## Kerrigan (26 Feb 2016)

Talk about a brass neck!  I've been vocal about my own issues on this forum and can only pay the interest off my debt each month - I don't sleep well and my health has deteriorated so I just don't know how these people can sleep at night.


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## Dermot (26 Feb 2016)

Kerrigan said:


> Talk about a brass neck! I've been vocal about my own issues on this forum and can only pay the interest off my debt each month - I don't sleep well and my health has deteriorated so I just don't know how these people can sleep at night.



I have great sympathy for you as I know you are trying your very best. I and a lot of other people on here I am sure wish you well for what that is worth.  I hope things work out for you.

*Five years to the day since Rona Browne or her partner paid “a single penny” off a €300,000 mortgage debt, a judge told her today she and her family could live there for another year.*

It is stuff like what is quoted in above paragraph that makes life difficult for people like Kerrigan and others who are struggling with high mortgage rates and doing their very best to a least pay interest only.  I did not hear *any* spokesman for *any* party taking a strong line that repossessions should be made easier in cases like what is the subject of this thread.  This is an open and shut case on the face of it.  It would not be populist to take a tough line on matters like this.  This is the type of nonsense  that is a the root of the high interest rates.  Everyone wants to avoid admitting it.
The test to avoid repossession should be; Are you paying the Interest in full and engaging with the Bank or the open rental value of the house whichever is the greater.


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## Kerrigan (26 Feb 2016)

Thanks Dermot.  

Without blowing my own trumpet or looking for a medal I can categorically state that if I could not meet the interest on the loan I would voluntarily surrender the property.  The pressure alone is immense (for us anyway) when you are having problems paying anything off the capital; you feel a sense of failure.  That sounds crazy but for us its true.  

This statement should go down in history!!! 
“This has been my family home and has been my mother and father’s family home and the family home of my grandparents before them,” Browne told the court.


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## so-crates (26 Feb 2016)

Kerrigan said:


> This statement should go down in history!!!
> “This has been my family home and has been my mother and father’s family home and the family home of my grandparents before them,” Browne told the court.



I saw that. It came across to me like she was a landed Russian aristocrat pre-revolution. Property mortgaged to the hilt, living off borrowed money, never paying anything back.


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## Dermot (26 Feb 2016)

Kerrigan said:


> Without blowing my own trumpet or looking for a medal I can categorically state that if I could not meet the interest on the loan I would voluntarily surrender the property. The pressure alone is immense (for us anyway) when you are having problems paying anything off the capital; you feel a sense of failure. That sounds crazy but for us its true.



I can understand what it must be doing for your family as I am witnessing what is happening to a friend but he is not making as good an effort as you obviously are. Mind your health in the difficult times that you have. It would be great to see something like a 1% drop in rates and I am sure that people like you would continue to pay what you are paying and let the 1% go towards reducing the principle.
Could the Government not put a proposition to the Banks that in return for easing and shortening the repossession scenario the Banks would lower the interest rates by 1%.
I honestly believe  that something has to be done about this repossession monster before any substantial mortgage provider will come in to the country and if that happens then and only then will you see something happen. 
I genuinely think that something like an independent "referee" who would be qualified to make a judgement call should be able to make a report to a court on whether a mortgage is viable or not. This referee would be engaged 3 months after the mortgage gets into trouble.  Bank provides all their back up documentation and mortgagee the same inside a further two month period.  Referee provides an objective assessment of options to both sides in a strict time scale it goes to Court.  The court should be asked to rule on the referees report.  Obviously there would need to be legislation for all of this.
Ridiculous and less than ridiculous excuses should be ruled out.
The cost of all of this nonsense in relation to repossession is huge on the economy and in particular on mortgage holders


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## dereko1969 (26 Feb 2016)

Kerrigan said:


> Thanks Dermot.
> 
> Without blowing my own trumpet or looking for a medal I can categorically state that if I could not meet the interest on the loan I would voluntarily surrender the property.  The pressure alone is immense (for us anyway) when you are having problems paying anything off the capital; you feel a sense of failure.  That sounds crazy but for us its true.
> 
> ...





so-crates said:


> I saw that. It came across to me like she was a landed Russian aristocrat pre-revolution. Property mortgaged to the hilt, living off borrowed money, never paying anything back.



If it's an inherited house how come she owes so much money on it? She must have either bought out siblings or spent it on other property. Infuriating.


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## demoivre (26 Feb 2016)

Dermot said:


> The test to avoid repossession should be; Are you *paying the Interest in ful*l and engaging with the Bank or the *open rental value* of the house whichever is the greater.



Even where a PIA could be put through resulting in lesser payments than either of your choices?





Kerrigan said:


> Thanks Dermot.
> 
> Without blowing my own trumpet or looking for a medal I can categorically state that if I could not meet the interest on the loan I would voluntarily surrender the property. The pressure alone is immense (for us anyway) when you are having problems paying anything off the capital; you feel a sense of failure. That *sounds crazy* but for us its true.



+1.


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## demoivre (26 Feb 2016)

dereko1969 said:


> Why do I bother my barney paying my mortgage? Woman goes 5 years without paying a penny and then* given another year* before she's kicked out!



She could appeal the decision to the High court first !!!


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## Dermot (26 Feb 2016)

demoivre said:


> Even where a PIA could be put through resulting in lesser payments than either of your choices?



I am tired of seeing "kicking the can down the road solutions".  If the interest is not being paid in full the amount owed is getting bigger and in a lot of cases the so called solution turns out worse for all concerned.


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## demoivre (29 Feb 2016)

Dermot said:


> I am tired of seeing "kicking the can down the road solutions".  If the interest is not being paid in full the amount owed is getting bigger and in a lot of cases the so called solution turns out worse for all concerned.



How is mortgage debt write down under a PIA, resulting in sustainable long term mortgage repayments for the borrower, "kicking the can down the road " ?


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