# Storage of deeds after clearing mortgage?



## mousey

Where is the best place to store house deeds. Somebody said the bank have storage facilities. Do they and if so how much do they charge?


----------



## ClubMan

Some options for storage of deeds are:


The lending institution - some lenders offer this service to (former) borrowers. However some (e.g. _EBS_) have been declining to offer this service due to space constraints in recent years.
One's bank - some banks offer a safe keeping facilities to customers (not necessarily just those who had mortgages with the bank). When I paid off the _EBS_ mortgage and _ESB_ no longer offered a deeds storage service my bank (_permanent tsb_) allowed me to lodge them for safe keeping at no cost to me.
Solicitors office - some solicitors offer a safe keeping service for deeds.
Land registry/registry of deeds - I may be mistaken but I seem to recall that they may offer a similar service. *Update 24 March 2005 - just checked the site again and it looks like this service may only be for professionals (e.g. solicitors, financial institutions) and not individuals.*
In most cases such safe keeping services are free or attract a nominal fee.


----------



## sunnyday

Not as cheap as Clubman's options, but I tend to use a good quality safe of my own which has a 1 hour fire resistance for stored paper documents. I reckon it's as safe as many other options.
On this note though, what problems would you possibly face if they were;
(a) Stolen
or
(b) Burned/destroyed?


----------



## Toby

I looked into this and some bank branches will store stuff for you but only some, my own bank said they don't have space.


----------



## legend99

*..*

i bet your bank would find room to store your cash if you offered it to them!


----------



## Unregistered

*Re: storing house deeds*

I have been checking this out, Almost all banks are now refusing to store deeds etc for a number of reasons, including space. I also checked out what happens if you lose your deeds, it is an expensive and time consuming process, as far as i know you have to go to court to establish you are the owner of the property and to have new deeds drafted up. so be very careful, 

as a result of this the land registry are now storing new deeds and giving a copy to buyers, this only applies to new houses purchased in the last year or so. The only advice i got was to get a good fire proof safe


----------



## Vanilla

*What happens if deeds are lost?*

Re above- if the title is land registry, one has to make an application for a duplicate land certificate which involves several affadavits from anyone last connected with it- ie owner, solicitor and bank manager,an advert in the law society gazette and an application to the land registry as well as the owner indemnifying the land registry if deeds are pledged as security etc

If the title is registry of deeds, then one can apply to the registry to have a certified copy memorial,and a new purchaser might require a suitable affadavit or an insurance bond etc.


----------



## oysterman

*Re: storing house deeds*

Re the original question, people paying off mortgages early should consider leaving a small amount unpaid - the mortgage provider will be storing your deeds effectively almost for free.

In addition, it may make it easier and cheaper to raise a mortgage should you need to re-finance in the future.

Providers hate small balance mortgages, and at least one major bank to my knowledge tries to force customers to redeem in such circumstances.

Hold out!


----------



## ClubMan

*Re: storing house deeds*

Bear in mind that as long as the mortgage remains "open" then the borrower must also continue to make mortgage protection life assurance premium payments as well. Chances are it might be simpler/cheaper to redeem the mortgage, make alternative arrangements for storage of the deeds and - if/when necessary - simply do an equity release rather than keeping the original loan open indefinitely (if the lender will even allow this).


----------



## suzie

*Re: storing house deeds*



			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> Bear in mind that as long as the mortgage remains "open" then the borrower must also continue to make mortgage protection life assurance premium payments as well. Chances are it might be simpler/cheaper to redeem the mortgage, make alternative arrangements for storage of the deeds and - if/when necessary - simply do an equity release rather than keeping the original loan open indefinitely (if the lender will even allow this).



I had this problem whereby the protection premium was > mortgage premium!!! To cancel the life assurance policy I needed a letter from the bank, but the bank wont do this as they still have an "interest" on the house. Catch 22.

Spoke to the local branch manager (ptsb), he said just stop the protection premium DD. I havent heard anything since...

S.


----------



## ClubMan

Do you mean that you have a nominal amount outstanding on the mortgage and you have stopped paying your mortgage protection life assurance premiums? You should check the terms & conditions of your mortgage loan agreement to check what implications doing this may have. And/or get it in writing from _PTSB _that it's OK to cancel your mortgage protection life assurance.


----------



## demoivre

I saw this crowd advertising on the back of yesterdays Irish Times - don't know anything about them and have never used them
http://www.filestores.com/index.htm


----------



## MOB

This topic is a little more detailed than perhaps people realise.   When people refer to their "title deeds" they are usually referring to a bundle of documents which includes actual title deeds and a whole heap more besides.  Many of the documents in the bundle can be replaced (at some cost), while some (original registry of deeds title documents) are generally irreplaceable (unless the original parties to the deeds are still around, and will execute a further deed).

When you get your "deeds" from your bank, the bundle of documents will include :

1.  Things which must be minded, (your Land Certificate, or original registry of deeds title documents).  A Land Certificate can be cancelled by returning it to the Land Registry- if it isn't issued it can't be lost.  It can also be stored by the Land Registry for free.  Word of warning - they store it as a "virtual document" so if you have an old Land Cert with the parchment and the handwriting, and if it has a sentimental value, don't store it in the Land Registry - it will be replaced with a modern computer printout.

2.  things which can be thrown away (Inheritance tax cert from 20 years ago;  CGT clearance from the last sale of the property; declaration from 1972 about a garage extension which no longer exists, a bankruptcy search which shows that the 1972 owner wasn't bankrupt etc. etc.) and

3.   things which should be minded but can easily be replaced (copies of grants of probate or death certificates; copies of land registry folios; copies of planning permissions affecting the property; certificate from local authority to say that the road is in charge; -  generally any documents of public record)


----------



## Ravima

if stuck, you could always store with your will in your solicitors office. There would be no charge for this. I nmy experience, banks do not really want to store anything and do charge an annual fee.


----------



## kfpg

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Do you mean that you have a nominal amount outstanding on the mortgage and you have stopped paying your mortgage protection life assurance premiums? You should check the terms & conditions of your mortgage loan agreement to check what implications doing this may have. And/or get it in writing from _PTSB _that it's OK to cancel your mortgage protection life assurance.


 
I have a nominal amount outstanding and I canelled the life protection - What could the implications possibly be? If they kicked up a fuss I'd simply pay them off and / or I'd argue that the amount is less than most personal loans e.g. for a car and they don't need any extra security.


----------



## ClubMan

Ravima said:
			
		

> if stuck, you could always store with your will in your solicitors office. There would be no charge for this. I nmy experience, banks do not really want to store anything and do charge an annual fee.


_PTSB _took our deeds and store them in a safety deposit box at no charge. The mortgage was originally with _EBS_.


----------



## ixtlan

Hi all,

As I am just about to pay off my mortgage I started researching this topic and found this thread, which I hope people don't mind me resurrecting.

My bank says they do not have a deeds holding service.

It's very unclear if the land registry guys can do anything for me. Certainly their web-site is not designed to explain to Joe Bloggs what he can do with his redeemed deeds.

Can I ask a silly question... Surely it should be possible to have deeds copied with suitable notaries? It seems strange in these modern days that a little piece of paper can be so irreplacable?

I'd like to hear from more people who have got their deeds back and what they have done.

Ix - 
John


----------



## Buddyboy

Our mortgage was with First Active.  When it was paid off, they sent us a letter stating that our deeds had been stored with Filestore. We contacted Filesstore and paid to have them keep storing the deeds.  Can't remembe the amount but it was fairly small. A lot smaller than buying a safe, and more secure.


----------



## dave28

We paid off our First Active mortgage about 6 months ago. They gave us a form to sign & return to them which gave us two choices as to where the deeds should be sent : 1. to a solicitor (provide name & address)
2. to ourselves at our home address.
We opted for our home address initially just to give us time to think about it (check around on storage fees etc.) 
Deeds arrived by reg. post a week later & they are still "under the stairs"
The revival of this thread has caused my blood pressure to rise slightly  ........!!


----------



## ixtlan

This really is very unclear.

This page appears to be an attempt to explain it, but does not...

[broken link removed]

So, there is a "registry of deeds" and a "land registry" but these both share the same address? The suggestion seems to be that the land registry is a real up to date proof of ownership but the registry of deeds is not. So if the land registry folio is proof surely my personal deed is not that important. I've found a copy of my mortgage deed so I can see it was given a land registry folio number...

OK... just found this...
http://www.landregistry.ie/index.asp?locID=12&docID=316  (point 11) so I'll follow instructions and see what develops. 

and further down that page... "When a title is accepted for registration in the Land Registry the original title documents are retained and permanently filed.  A folio is opened in respect of the property, a map outlining the property is attached to the folio and generally it is not necessary to refer to the original title documents again. 
The title shown on the folio is guaranteed by the State which is bound to indemnify any person who suffers loss through a mistake made by the Land Registry. A purchaser can, therefore, accept the folio as evidence of title without having to read the relevant deeds."

So I read that as saying that my actual deeds are not important? though I appreciate that I need to make sure my completion of the mortgage is registered in the folio.

Then I also read "Note that if the Land Certificate was returned to you, it can also be lodged." however if the folio is guaranteed by the state, surely the cert is redundant?

BTW, I appreciate that MOB's post #13 explained some of this, but I'm trying to understand the details.

Ix.


----------



## PM1234

ixtlan said:


> So I read that as saying that my actual deeds are not important? though I appreciate that I need to make sure my completion of the mortgage is registered in the folio.
> 
> Then I also read "Note that if the Land Certificate was returned to you, it can also be lodged." however if the folio is guaranteed by the state, surely the cert is redundant?
> 
> BTW, I appreciate that MOB's post #13 explained some of this, but I'm trying to understand the details.
> 
> Ix.


 
Your deeds are important. The Land Registry did not always issue the original Land Certificate.  Your solicitor lodged the dealing and the title deeds were registered in the houseowners name and retained by the Land Registry. Sometimes the Land Certificates were issued - usually to the solicitor. 

So whether or not they are retained by the Land Registry depends on whether or not they issued originally. 

If they issued and are subsequently lost it can be costly and time-consuming for the title deeds to be reconstituted (as outlined in previous posts above).


----------

