# Padraig Kissane presenting to the Oireachtas Finance Committee next Tuesday, 21st



## Brendan Burgess (17 Feb 2017)

*General Notice*


*‘The Tracker Debacle’*


*Padraic Kissane addressing the Oireachtas Finance Committee*



*Group:  Oireachtas Finance Committee*

*Subject:   The Tracker Debacle *

*Date:  Being Televised on Tuesday 21st February 2017*

*Time:  From 5 pm Approx*

*Location:  Committee Room 3.  Leinster House, Dublin 2.*

*To view:   *http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchlive/




This email is to inform you that I have been invited to appear in front of the Oireachtas Finance Committee next Tuesday 21st February commencing from 5 pm approx.


I will be presenting the facts of what has really occurred in this Tracker Debacle.  The attempts made by all Lenders to get as many customers as possible from their Tracker rate.


I will present the facts of what this overcharging has done to thousands of individuals and families throughout Ireland.


I do not believe there is one morsel of regret within any Bank for what each has done to its customer’s, their only regret is *they have been caught*_._


This presentation is a summary of what I have challenged over the last 8 years. I intend to outline, in a clear and proper way the damage, pain, upset and suffering that has been caused ,  which is still ongoing in 2017.


*Padraic Kissane  *


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## Gen360 (18 Feb 2017)

Lets hope this is well covered in the media and not buried under all the FG leadership nonsense that's going to be happening next week. Good luck Padraic.


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## Lightening (18 Feb 2017)

Some support by in the public gallery would help!


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## SaySomething (18 Feb 2017)

I'll be in the public gallery along with my OH. @Lightening will I see you again there?


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Feb 2017)

Great idea to get a crowd to go.

I will be out of town, otherwise I would be there.

Brendan


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## Lightening (18 Feb 2017)

Yes SaySomething I will be there for sure! 
I am positive we will learn a lot and Padraic Kissane deserves the support.


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## marchflowers (19 Feb 2017)

Am thinking about travelling up on Tues. Can anyone advise as to access to the public gallery, are you guaranteed to get in or it limited in space? It would be a 5 hr round trip so just want to make sure I'd actually get in!


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## SaySomething (19 Feb 2017)

@marchflowers you need to arrange with the Oireachtas Finance Committee. I received an invite this week as a result of ongoing correspondence with them & I think @Lightening would be the same. Their contact details can be found here: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/fpert-committee/contact/


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## marchflowers (19 Feb 2017)

Thanks Brendan.


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## Bronte (20 Feb 2017)

This is amazing Padraic.  Best of luck tomorrow.  I'll be following this with much interest.  You've done so much for so many people.


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## Hogmeister55 (20 Feb 2017)

Much respect to you Padraic for standing up and being counted. Without your perseverance this would have been brushed under the carpet long ago. Best of luck tomorrow.


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## geri (20 Feb 2017)

good luck Padraic - we got our repayment, and compensation cheque from EBS, thanks to your efforts.


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## roncondon (21 Feb 2017)

Best of luck today Padraic.
Folks I'm stuck with work this evening so won't get to see the address by Padraic,  just wondering if anyone knows if there is a way of watching it later.Thanks


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## mister32 (21 Feb 2017)

Channel 574 on Sky I think


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## Miakk (21 Feb 2017)

Best of luck Padraic, thank you for all you have done and continue to do. I'm still waiting in hope for something from Ulster bank (former First Active customers like myself seem to be left behind so far in restoration of tracker)


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## Lightening (21 Feb 2017)

Best of luck Padraic. 

We are all rooting for you!!


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## Gen360 (21 Feb 2017)

Good luck Padraic. Thanks for representing us all. Still no news from Ulster bank but living ( just about ) in hope.


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## Onceagain (21 Feb 2017)

Scary to think without this man, everything would still be under the carpet. One man representing so many of us . Best of luck Padraic, many of us staff from Bank of Ireland are still hanging on.


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## Freshstart (21 Feb 2017)

Best of luck Padraic. Thank you for giving the little man a voice.


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## MorgVar (21 Feb 2017)

On now live Room 3


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## Tedtalk (21 Feb 2017)

Well done Padraic. Sounds fantastic!!!!! Shame on the banks!!! Disgusting behaviour


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## Monbretia (21 Feb 2017)

Is it on TV?  It's not on sky 574


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## MorgVar (21 Feb 2017)

Oireachtas tv website Comittee Room 3


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## admin (21 Feb 2017)

I missed the start. I came in on Pearse Doherty asking questions. He was followed by Michael McGrath. And now a Sinn Fein senator????

Is there no one there from FG? From Labour? 

The only other person I recognised was a FF Senator - Gerry(?) Horkan?

Brendan


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## Gen360 (21 Feb 2017)

Sitting here watching this with tears in my eyes. I remember sitting in the bank being told I was in a unique situation and being made to feel like a fool for fixing. They have screwed so many of us.


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## PFS7979 (21 Feb 2017)

Well done to Padraig Kissane for highlighting and articulating the issues so well.


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## Jespie1 (21 Feb 2017)

Well done padraic. If only the ceos of the banks had half your integrity we would never have gotten to the mess that we are now in. Your giving each and every one of us a voice.


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## julianato (21 Feb 2017)

Just read this and missed the live channel, but the video might be downloadable over the next week or two at oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/downloadvideofiles/

Well done Padraic, looking forward to watching you in action.


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## Bikini Widow (21 Feb 2017)

Powerful message and call to action to TDs present -- would be great to get these guys engaged and applying pressure to the correct areas


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## marchflowers (21 Feb 2017)

Thank you Padraic for giving us a voice - on an issue that would be long forgotten, but for your perseverance.


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## mister32 (21 Feb 2017)

FG conspicuous by absence. 
What's that about?

The discussion was fantastic.

Hopefully the finance committee will go away and act on it.

Big thank you to Padraic

Also Brendan B

Also Michael McGrath

Pearse Doherty

John Mc Guinness

Rose ConwayWalsh

I may have missed a few people


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## Freshstart (21 Feb 2017)

Wow utterly blown away by how calmly passionate Padraic is. I won't lie I was in tears as he laid bare the devastation that's rocked countless families including my own. I for one feel buoyed by Mr Kissanes words and hope many take heart he is continuing to make progress for us all.


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## SaySomething (21 Feb 2017)

I've total brain freeze after sitting there biting on my tongue in the gallery. Desperate I couldn't cheer. I managed to meet with a couple of the committee members before and after. They promise to keep it to the forefront. If you take anything from the meeting today, wrote to them & tell your story. It keeps the campaign alive. Well done Padraic & great to meet you in person.


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## Lightening (21 Feb 2017)

Me too I was on the edge of my chair it was mind blowing stuff!! I particularly got excited at one of the suggested three options that the committee are faced with to get this issue resolved; that all accounts effected start paying the tracker rates now. I nearly fell off my chair with excitement!'


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## Jespie1 (21 Feb 2017)

Lightening said:


> Me too I was on the edge of my chair it was mind blowing stuff!! I particularly got excited at one of the suggested three options that the committee are faced with to get this issue resolved; that all accounts effected start paying the tracker rates now. I nearly fell off my chair with excitement!'


I would love to have the courage to do this


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## Sarenco (21 Feb 2017)

A few quick observations:-

Like others, I thought Padraic's testimony regarding the direct and indirect impact of the issue on the relevant borrowers was utterly compelling.
I was very surprised at Padraic's reluctance to criticise the Central Bank's failure to put in place a transparent, time-bound review process and I sensed a number of Committee members shared my surprise in this regard.
I was, frankly, stunned when Pádraig said that he now advises BOI borrowers that switched from trackers to avail of the discounted staff products not to engage him.  
While I think the relevant banks are on very shaky legal ground (to put it mildly) regarding the "prevailing" tracker issue, I wouldn't necessarily agree with Padraic's view that the phrase simply refers to the variable nature of the underlying reference rate.
I struggled to follow the logic of the response to the question posed by Peter Burke TD (Fine Gael) towards the end of the session (although I suspect fatigue was an issue by that stage).
It was interesting to hear the Committee members suggest that they would have to invite the relevant lenders to attend before them on a quarterly basis to bring some finality to this saga.  While that is obviously to be welcomed, surely that would be unnecessary if the Central Bank put a transparent  review process in place?


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## MAX01 (21 Feb 2017)

I missed it so am in shock when I read his comments re BOI staff. Why would he make this statement at this hearing? Why do it in such a public manner instead of advising the staff themselves? Did he give any reasons for making this statement?


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## Dan Murray (21 Feb 2017)

Sarenco said:


> (a) Like others, I thought Padraic's testimony regarding the direct and indirect impact of the issue on the relevant borrowers was utterly compelling.
> (b) I was very surprised at Padraic's reluctance to criticise the Central Bank's failure to put in place a transparent, time-bound review process and I sensed a number of Committee members shared my surprise in this regard.



Interesting analysis, Sarenco

These two points particularly resonated with me.

(a) Padraic did a very good job here and is to be applauded for his work down the years.

(b) I simply cannot understand Padraic's views on the Central Bank - the CB has massive resources, is the responsible authority for consumer protection and should have put in place a timeframe for resolution years ago. The CB has clearly failed badly in this duty. Rose Conway-Walsh tried to probe this responsibility of the CB - to no avail. John McGuinness, to his credit, did not let the matter rest and made clear how unimpressed he is with the performance of the CB. I was also very impressed with how solutions focussed McGuinness was.

What needs to happen? Remind the CB of its responsibilities and get them to put a plan in place with deadlines. They also need to be much more directive.


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## Sarenco (21 Feb 2017)

Agree on all counts Dan.

Padraic is unquestionably a very able and determined advocate for his clients.  

I also share your puzzlement regarding Padraic's attitude to the Central Bank's role in this saga.  I have to say I was impressed with the engagement of all Committee members - it was obvious to me that they are genuinely looking for a pathway to resolve this issue.


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## Sligolive (21 Feb 2017)

Perhaps Pauric is committed to working with the CBI on this project and does not wish to be seen as overly critical of the CBI as it may strain that relationship.


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## Hogmeister55 (21 Feb 2017)

MAX01 said:


> I missed it so am in shock when I read his comments re BOI staff. Why would he make this statement at this hearing? Why do it in such a public manner instead of advising the staff themselves? Did he give any reasons for making this statement?



Padraic said he is not taking BOI staff as clients for the simple reason that it may affect their employment. He said the cases were on his shoulders. I got the impression he is fighting the case without paying clients.

He did go on to explain how he was dealing with a staff tracker issue and that the bank were arguing in one situation an MFA superseded the original contract but in a non bank staff case they were using the opposite logic. 

I do hope that in the event trackers are returned that Padraic will be fairly compensated for his work. I certainly will be making a voluntary contribution.


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## Sarenco (22 Feb 2017)

If that's the case, i would have thought it was up to the potential clients concerned to decide whether or not they wanted to proceed with their compaint/action - no? 

In any event, I gather that a significant number of the borrowers concerned are no longer BOI employees.

Any valid contract amendment always supersedes the original contract - parties can't subsequently pick and choose what terms they want to apply.

Padraic's fee arrangements are obviously a private matter between himself and his clients.  Personally, I don't think it's appropriate to speculate on these arrangements on a public forum.


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## Sophrosyne (22 Feb 2017)

Sarenco said:


> A few quick observations:-
> 
> I was very surprised at Padraic's reluctance to criticise the Central Bank's failure to put in place a transparent, time-bound review process and I sensed a number of Committee members shared my surprise in this regard.
> I was, frankly, stunned when Pádraig said that he now advises BOI borrowers that switched from trackers to avail of the discounted staff products not to engage him.
> ...



Is everything down to Pádraic Kissane?

Providing meaningful remedies and doing the right thing for those wronged is often a thankless, frustrating and lonely path.

It is easy to be a critic - nothing easier. 

But there is nothing to prevent critics with appropriate knowledge or who imagine they have superior knowledge from taking up the gauntlet and doing a better job in this matter.

Bravo Pádraic.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2017)

Good job overall. 

The Central Bank as a unit has done poor job - too little too late.

PadraicKissane probably thinks that they are doing a good job now. They have not published their guidelines, so it's hard for people to challenge the banks e.g. The AIB 3.67% issue.  It's very cumbersome which is why it's taking so long.  They have learnt fro the Ptsb process, but not enough.

I strongly disagree with PadraicKissane suggesting that 2,000 people lost their homes as a result of losing their trackers.  

I have come across hundreds of cases of people losing their trackers.  None lost their homes as a result.

I have come across hundreds who have lost their homes. None lost them due to the loss of their tracker. 

They lost them because they were paying nothing.  If they paid anything, they kept their homes. 

There may have been an isolated case or two but not more than. A handful.  

Brendan


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## Lightening (22 Feb 2017)

Brendan 

The 2000 approx figure includes indirect loss of the home  I.e. Those that had to sell the family home as the mortgage was no longer sustainable and move miles away and purchase somewhere else where a home was cheaper. 

We too "temporarily" lost our home for several years. We were faced with handing back the keys or emigrate. We chose the latter and rented out the house. Luckily we could return years later but many would have sold and never come back.

I am sure there are many scenarios that cover the 2000 approx figure.  It's another figure that we will never know exactly.

So I would agree with Padraic on this.


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## Delboy (22 Feb 2017)

I don't think this made the 9pm rte news last night? If it did, I missed it


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## Sarenco (22 Feb 2017)

Sophrosyne said:


> Is everything down to Pádraic Kissane?



It certainly shouldn't be.

Our Central Bank is the body with primary statutory responsibility in this matter and I have been highly critical of their failure to put in place a timely, transparent review process.

I don't know how you could possibly read my post as being in any way critical of Padraic's representation of his clients.


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## Gen360 (22 Feb 2017)

The only coverage of this that I can find is in The Irish Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/lenders-slammed-for-tracker-mortgage-scandal-443491.html

Unfortunately it mainly deals with Larry Broderick who appeared before the committee earlier.


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## Freshstart (22 Feb 2017)

I think you have to differentiate between a house and a home. We are in a similar scenario to Lightening. We never lost our house but we did lose our home as we had to rent it out and now rent elsewhere ourselves.


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## Gen360 (22 Feb 2017)

This should not become an issue about people losing the homes or not. Many people stayed in their homes and really suffered to do so. If we start differentiating between the suffering caused by the the banks then we are distracting from the issue. We have all suffered in one way or another due to the behaviour of the banks.

The Issue is that we are contractually entitled to something and the banks have reneged on that contract.


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## Hogmeister55 (22 Feb 2017)

I think to speed the process up the central bank should order that all mortgages still under investigation be put on a tracker rate until the review is complete. This should be at the banks expense even if the mortgage is subsequently denied a tracker and returned to another rate.

You would be surprised how quick this review can be done then.


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## MAX01 (22 Feb 2017)

Thanks Hogmeister for the clarification and I absolutely agree with you re voluntary contribution to Padraig Kissane .  Only for Padraig, this review would never have happened and countless people would never have got their trackers returned. He has spent years working on this issue  probably at great personal cost to himself.
Our banks and the Central Bank should hang their heads in shame.


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## radley (22 Feb 2017)

you can watch this back on playback ...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=34653&&CatID=127


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2017)

Hogmeister55 said:


> I think to speed the process up the central bank should order that all mortgages still under investigation be put on a tracker rate until the review is complete. This should be at the banks expense even if the mortgage is subsequently denied a tracker and returned to another rate.
> 
> You would be surprised how quick this review can be done then.



I am guessing that most of the delay is due to the central bank being too slow to review the scheme. 

As discussed in another thread, they should make their decisions and put people on the right rate as. A priority.  The refund and compensation can follow later.


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## nonie (22 Feb 2017)

Listened to full piece. I think Padraic Kissane did a fantastic job as the consumer voice.


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## Onceagain (22 Feb 2017)

Also just finished listening, super presentation.


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## Leighlinboy (23 Feb 2017)

I thought Padraic spoke brilliantly all the way through . Glad to see the cathaoirleach following up on the CB points towards the end as well. They all seemed quite well informed and taking an interest.


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## justo (23 Feb 2017)

Excellent Padraic - well done. 

RE. your point at 2:26 about grouping people by bank and attacking them en masse, I think this is a great idea. 

I'm on board - UB customer.


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## Gen360 (23 Feb 2017)

How's about a good old picket at UB HQ?


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## Mauritius (23 Feb 2017)

I too watched the full piece. It's amazing to see how horrified the Oireachtas Finance Committee is at the details presented by Padraic. It's as if the scale and extent of this has only finally started to dawn on people in power.  Padraic continues in his brave and unrelenting battle against the banks on behalf of us.  But it seems that the Central Bank doesn't have this firmly by the reigns. Why have they not set a definitive deadline and made the banks stick to it? Why has this dragged on past the completion date time and time again? Can we really expect to hear anything conclusive in 2017?  My case is in the tracker review.  A 'certain bank' made me give it up because I asked for a further 12 month extension of interest only on my home loan. I was very clear with them that I couldn't pay the full capital - my hours had been greatly cut back in the recession - but I wanted to keep the tracker rate. They refused. They persistently sent me mandates to sign to give it up.  Loads of pressure to sign. That was the beginning of 2009.  Yes, I believe they had made a plan within the banks to find anyway - any loophole - to get people off trackers, even though I have in writing that mine was "for the full term of the loan."  I rang for an update last week and of course they said they are waiting on the Central Bank.  So who really is waiting of who....?


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## delsalmon (23 Feb 2017)

Brilliantly reported by Padraic.
The committee have spoken about fraud and criminal activity and those responsible in the banks be made accountable through an enquiry. This in my opinion would only slow the whole process down and any decisions on rates and compensation might have to wait for the findings of a long drawn out enquiry.
To be taken off 3.25%+ECB immediately and put onto a fair tracker rate, and the mortgage balance recalculated accordingly would be enough for me. I can't live on the hope of "justice" whilst getting screwed every month by the bank, while I'm waiting.
I hope April's report by the Central Bank isn't going to be another excuse to stall for time


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## todo (24 Feb 2017)

Fantastic delivery by Padraic Kissane, I hope he gets the chance to put those bankers on the stand.


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## DonnaM (7 Mar 2017)

Just watched this wow - well done Padraic..


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