# Referring to People as Sir/Ma'am: Usage of these terms in Ireland?



## ajapale (20 Jun 2009)

[broken link removed]

I heard about this controversy on George Hook (Newstalk) yesterday. He had some American "shock jock" on who ridiculed Senator Boxer for objecting to the term Ma'am.

These terms (and their usage) are very common in the US (especially in the US military) but what do aamers think of their use here in Ireland.

Growing up in the Ireland the only people I heard regularly using the terms were members of the travelling community, old fashioned trades men, and school children referring to male teachers . (sir!)


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## Purple (20 Jun 2009)

If the Brigadier General called the male Senators "Senator" but called her "Ma'am" then she was correct. If not then she was being over sensitive.
I like the use of the term in America; it is somewhat formal and, in my opinion, partially explains why Americans are so courteous, respectful and friendly toward each other.


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## Marion (20 Jun 2009)

Sir (and of course Madam) is regularly used here in restaurants and hotels by staff - not necessarily in the local chipper.

They are also used in the letters page in the Irish Times - Madam at present

Marion


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## Caveat (20 Jun 2009)

We are possibly the least formal developed country in the world.  Considerably less formal than continental Europe and even noticeably less formal than Britain.  I deal with customers every day - don't think I have ever used Sir/Madam to an Irish customer but almost always do with European customers - until I am invited not to.


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## RMCF (20 Jun 2009)

I get called Sir frequwntly in bars and restaurants in Ireland/UK, and I don't like it one bit. I find it very formal.

I'd rather have a barman/waiter say "how's it going", "whats the craic" or "what are you having" rather than "hello Sir, what can I get you", "ok Sir" and "that'll be €5.60 Sir".


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## ajapale (20 Jun 2009)

I dont like the use of the words Sir/Maam in Ireland. I think its the servile attitude that I dont like.

Also I find the word maam difficult as to my ears it is mam (as in mammy). (mom in us, mum in england, mam in Ireland)


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## so-crates (22 Jun 2009)

One of my first jobs was waiting tables in a restaurants and as a matter of course I used Sir/Madam/Ma'am (I pronounce that with a half pause between the two a's since it does sound wrong to me otherwise!). I got told pretty quickly that people did not want to be addressed that way so I had to stop


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## foxylady (22 Jun 2009)

Imo  Ma'am makes you sound real old, which is alright if you are but when you're not its very annoying.


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## Caveat (22 Jun 2009)

Purple said:


> ... partially explains why Americans are so courteous, respectful and friendly toward each other.


 
A bit OT and not that I think they are rude, but I don't actually think they are particularly polite either.

On the surface, yes, they say all the right things and this is a positive thing for me in a customer situation - even if they don't mean it.

But in the cities at least, I came to the conclusion that "excuse me" was really a euphemism for "get out of my way" as many times I experienced Americans saying this when e.g they were approaching as a pedestrian and I was nowhere near them - they were saying excuse me before they needed to be excused!

But maybe this has as much to do with Americans needing a lot of personal space compared to us - which they _definitely_ do IME.


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## bullbars (22 Jun 2009)

so-crates said:


> One of my first jobs was waiting tables in a restaurants and as a matter of course I used Sir/Madam/Ma'am (I pronounce that with a half pause between the two a's since it does sound wrong to me otherwise!). I got told pretty quickly that people did not want to be addressed that way so I had to stop


 
Ditto: Worked in a pub through my college years and was often told " My names is "Jim" not sir"
It was a pub with a lot of regulars so I generally knew people by name and you could be very casual with them. As a RMCF put it, I addressed people with a " whats the craic" type greeting. The customers definately preferred the bit of banter with the staff.


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## Graham_07 (22 Jun 2009)

To go to the other extreme what bugs the life out of me is the amount of people one has never met or spoken with before who ring or call looking for "first name". A lot of these end up being cold-caller salespeople. If I am looking for someone I've never spoken with before on phone I'll ask for "Mr/Mrs/Ms x ". The conversation may subsequently progress to first names and that's fine but I find it a bit too informal to ask for someone by first name only when you don't know them. I also had clients years ago who were in their late 70's early 80's. I always spoke with the wife ( who looked after the books) as Maureen but I always called her husband Mr x.


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## Caveat (22 Jun 2009)

Graham_07 said:


> I always called her husband Mr x.


  Sounds like your "clients" had private armed security & lived in some sort of high tech lair carved into the side of a mountain or something!


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## baldyman27 (23 Jun 2009)

Graham_07 said:


> I always called her husband Mr x.


 


Caveat said:


> Sounds like your "clients" had private armed security & lived in some sort of high tech lair carved into the side of a mountain or something!


 
Is it Graham_007?


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## Graham_07 (23 Jun 2009)

baldyman27 said:


> Is it Graham_007?


 

Stirring my vodkatini....I hate them shaken 

PS does anyone know a good Aston dealer, need to upgrade.


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## baldyman27 (23 Jun 2009)

Graham_07 said:


> PS does anyone know a good Aston dealer, need to upgrade.


 
Insurance could be a problem with the way you drive!


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## Paulone (1 Jul 2009)

In a lot of Romance languages, there is a formal way of addressing someone using the third person. They seem to be a bit more hung up about it on continental Europe as its widely used in Spain and Italy, particularly with regard to people who are older than you and in commerce. They also have a much more uptight attitude to swearing, with it being unthinkable in most business environments to use slang or bad language.

Having worked here, in NI and over in England, I think the English we speak here is given to the use of much less formal terms. We don't have the same sense of hierarchy in speech and even if someone is being deferential, it's without the verbal obsequieousness that accompanies a lot of the conversation over the water or in continental Europe.

Think of it - if a visitor (who you didn't know) to your house or workplace called you 'Sir' or 'madam' continually, it would be plain weird. Its quite normal in Romance languages and is expected until you're told otherwise - even if you're younger or 'less senior' than the person calling you 'sir' or 'madam'.

It's a cultural thing really and, in other English speaking countries, a different way of expressing politeness.


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## Graham_07 (1 Jul 2009)

Paulone said:


> They also have a much more uptight attitude to swearing, with it being unthinkable in most business environments to use slang or bad language.


 
This annoys me a lot. I dislike intensely the casual dropping of swear words into normal conversation. I realise that for some people it's that they don't even think about it and it's no different to them than ( as in Cork ) putting the odd "like" at the end of every sentence, like.  . At the same time how do you say to someone, "sorry I'd prefer if you didn't use language like that" without causing offence. I know we are all given to the occasional expletives, walking into an open desk drawer, dropping two full plates of dinner on the floor, would all be cases where an automatic "blank it" might be uttered but otherwise, leave it out.


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## Purple (1 Jul 2009)

I agree; I hate hearing Irish people swear in a business environment with mainland Europeans.


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## Mpsox (2 Jul 2009)

you should also remember that some of our words and phrases can be easily mis-understood. I remember going up to an African-American colleague of mine in the US once and saying in my best Cork accent, "how's it going boy?"  That took some explaining!!!!  like


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## Caveat (2 Jul 2009)

Purple said:


> I agree; I hate hearing Irish people swear in a business environment


 
I don't think I've ever come across it and I'm amazed that anyone would do this - it's just unbelievably unprofessional. Never mind possible commercial suicide too.


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## Towger (2 Jul 2009)

Caveat said:


> I don't think I've ever come across it and I'm amazed that anyone would do this - it's just unbelievably unprofessional. Never mind possible commercial suicide too.



 I once rang the main phone number for AIB Group HQ at about 8:30 in the morning and got on to what I can only assume was the 'security hut'. I just wanted to get/check an email address for an employee. The reply to my query was in best Dublineese with a number of expletives and taking of the lord's name in vain. Basically trying to help me, but explaining that email was too high-felutant for him! I was left thinking that if I was an American ringing to do business with them, they would never hear from me again!


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## Caveat (2 Jul 2009)

Towger said:


> I once rang the main phone number for AIB Group HQ at about 8:30 in the morning and got on to what I can only assume was the 'security hut'. I just wanted to get/check an email address for an employee. The reply to my query was in best Dublineese with a number of expletives and taking of the lord's name in vain. Basically trying to help me, but explaining that email was too high-felutant for him! I was left thinking that if I was an American ringing to do business with them, they would never hear from me again!


 
Would have been funny if he said all this but ended each sentence with 'sir' or 'ma'am' - really would have confused the Americans!


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