# GF moving into apartment



## woodseb (28 Nov 2007)

hi, my girlfriend plans to rent her 1-bed apartment and move into my 2-bed. i think we've sussed the implications with regard to stamp duty, CGT etc on her side but what are the implications for me. She'll obviously be helping with the mortgage but does this need to be declared or can i just have her down as a rent-a-room scheme?

thanks


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## ClubMan (28 Nov 2007)

I don't think that you can avail of the rent a room scheme when you are cohabiting.


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## woodseb (28 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I don't think that you can avail of the rent a room scheme when you are cohabiting.


 
so does she have to be on the mortgage or is there some halfway house between that and renting?

is there a penalty for not declaring?


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## John Rambo (28 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I don't think that you can avail of the rent a room scheme when you are cohabiting.


 
I'd be interested to know how the Revenue would monitor this? Hold a glass up to the bedroom door perhaps?


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## ClubMan (28 Nov 2007)

John Rambo said:


> I'd be interested to know how the Revenue would monitor this? Hold a glass up to the bedroom door perhaps?


It's not up to _Revenue _to monitor it - it's up to individuals to be honest and compliant in their dealings with them. Obviously there are innumerable ways to evade tax but I think it's a given around here that we assume that people are playing by the rules...

As I said I don't know for sure that you cannot avail of the rent a room scheme here but I suspect that you cannot. Especially since that possibility was closed off for, say, children living at home and paying housekeeping/rent to the parents a while back. On that basis I presume that rent a room requires that the tenant is at "arm's length" and not part of the family or of a couple.


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## ubiquitous (28 Nov 2007)

John Rambo said:


> I'd be interested to know how the Revenue would monitor this?



Maybe no way to monitor it _per se_ but God forbid, in the event of an acrimonious relationship breakdown, there could be tax issues re: inappropriate use of Rent a Room scheme if this was brought to Revenue attention by an aggrieved party


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## John Rambo (28 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> It's not up to _Revenue _to monitor it - it's up to individuals to be honest and compliant in their dealings with them. Obviously there are innumerable ways to evade tax but I think it's a given around here that we assume that people are playing by the rules...
> 
> As I said I don't know for sure that you cannot avail of the rent a room scheme here but I suspect that you cannot. Especially since that possibility was closed off for, say, children living at home and paying housekeeping/rent to the parents a while back. On that basis I presume that rent a room requires that the tenant is at "arm's length" and not part of the family or of a couple.


 
It's hard to know...thinking about it I'd imagine a co-habiting couple can avail of the rent a room scheme. After all, from a tax point of view a co-habiting couple are completely unrelated and treated as strangers. Children on the other hand are treated differently. I mean, if one party owns the house what is the actual relationship? They're only dating when all's said and done.


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## woodseb (28 Nov 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Maybe no way to monitor it _per se_ but God forbid, in the event of an acrimonious relationship breakdown, there could be tax issues re: inappropriate use of Rent a Room scheme if this was brought to Revenue attention by an aggrieved party


 
exactly, i have no intention of evading tax, but equally i'd prefer not to have to go through the process of putting her on the mortgage deeds


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## ClubMan (28 Nov 2007)

Probably best to get professional advice unless something on _Revenue's_ website clarifies the matter?


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## John Rambo (28 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Probably best to get professional advice unless something on _Revenue's_ website clarifies the matter?


 
Sound advice...in my experience it's best to go straight to the Revenue and ask them about black and white issues like this, as in "can we do this?" Personally I obtain professional advice when it's more of a grey area, more technical, or the amounts involved are large.


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## Nige (28 Nov 2007)

The Revenue do not require an "arm's length" relationship to avail of the rent a room scheme, but they have specifically disallowed the relief in the case of a parent-child relationship. 

However, on the non-tax side of things, you should talk to your solicitor about how to structure this to ensure your girlfriend does not get rights over your property.


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## woodseb (28 Nov 2007)

all good advice thanks......


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## pc7 (28 Nov 2007)

would second Nige's post cover all bases incase you guys break up (sorry!) down the line.


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## pugwall (28 Nov 2007)

I wonder if the couple were a same sex couple would this have any implications on how revenue would treat it? As it stands, the revenue does not recognise same sex marriage so presumably they would view the above transactions involving same sex couples as 'arms length transactions'...


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## Megan (30 Nov 2007)

Would there be stamp duty issues for you if she is going to be paying you rent? If ye are engaged it might change things re her rights to claim an interest in your apartment.


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## Graham_07 (30 Nov 2007)

Megan said:


> > Would there be stamp duty issues for you if she is going to be paying you rent?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nige (30 Nov 2007)

Megan said:


> Didn't realise that an engagement would be considered the same as being married.


 
Many people find that out the hard way.

The relevant legislation is the 1981 Family Law act which states:


> Property of engaged couples.
> 5.—(1) Where an agreement to marry is terminated, the rules of law relating to the rights of spouses in relation to property in which either or both of them has or have a beneficial interest shall apply in relation to any property in which either or both of the parties to the agreement had a beneficial interest while the agreement was in force as they apply in relation to property in which either or both spouses has or have a beneficial interest.
> (2) Where an agreement to marry is terminated, section 12 of the Married Women's Status Act, 1957 (which relates to the determination of questions between husband and wife as to property) shall apply, as if the parties to the agreement were married, to any dispute between them, or claim by one of them, in relation to property in which either or both had a beneficial interest while the agreement was in force


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## Graham_07 (30 Nov 2007)

Nige, thanks for that, all very intersting. As they say, you learn something new every day . !


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## Megan (30 Nov 2007)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1981/en/act/pub/0022/print.html
[broken link removed]

Some light reading in above re: Engagements - there's alot more to them then the DIAMOND !!



woodseb said:


> exactly, i have no intention of evading tax, but equally i'd prefer not to have to go through the process of putting her on the mortgage deeds



If he puts her on the deeds - would that be the same as selling a share in his apartment - hence Stamp duty issues. 
As Clubman says it might be best to get some professional advise.


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## jazzhead (1 Dec 2007)

dont do it, (only joking!!!)


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## csirl (3 Dec 2007)

if you want to claim rent-a-room for your OH living in your place, then you'll have to sleep in separate rooms to be eligible! If you are both sharing a bed(room), then obviously she isnt renting a room of her own to sleep in.

Beware of all those Revenue/SW catch all rules which, in line with the Constitution, mean co-habiting couples cannot be in a more favourable position than married. Married cohabiting couples cant claim rent-a-room for each other, so it follows that non-married cohabiting couples definately cant.


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## Alias (4 Dec 2007)

csirl said:


> if you want to claim rent-a-room for your OH living in your place, then you'll have to sleep in separate rooms to be eligible! If you are both sharing a bed(room), then obviously she isnt renting a room of her own to sleep in.
> 
> Beware of all those Revenue/SW catch all rules which, in line with the Constitution, mean co-habiting couples cannot be in a more favourable position than married. Married cohabiting couples cant claim rent-a-room for each other, so it follows that non-married cohabiting couples definately cant.


 
But if the government won't recognise a couple living together as a common-law marriage or anything of that sort, then surely all that's left is 'roommates'?

Also, the owner won't actually gain anything by renting the room more than he would if they were married.  The partner however will be in a lesser position, since if they got married she would be entitled to 1/2 of the house.  And if the owner can't avail of the rent a room scheme, then he will also be at a significant disadvantage, and have to pay tax on money the partner pays towards the mortgage.

All that is said for discussion/debate, and I agree that the OP should call and ask the revenue.  And please, report back what you find out!


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