# Working for a UK employer in ireland



## mja (18 Dec 2007)

I have moved back to Ireland after working for 12 years in London.  My boss has asked me to continue to work for him from my home in Ireland.  I would like to know what I should do regarding paying my tax.  would my employer organise to pay me a gross salary and I organise my tax myself?  Does it make a diffrence if they continue to pay into my UK bank account or should they pay me by euro into an irish account?  I finish maternity leave at the end of January and would like to commence work then.  It will not be a full time job - possibly 20 hours per week.
any advice would be great


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## Iceman732 (18 Dec 2007)

Are you domiclled in Ireland or the UK?


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## mja (18 Dec 2007)

I am living in Ireland.


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## ClubMan (18 Dec 2007)

You may need to read this _Revenue FAQ_:

*Travel & Residence Matters*


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## Iceman732 (18 Dec 2007)

Yes I know you are living in Ireland but are you domiclled in this fair country?!! Maybe the Revenue FAQ has sorted your problem out!


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## billb (20 Dec 2007)

I am in a similar situation as I just moved from the UK to Ireland and am remaining with my UK employer as a remote worker. I can find no clear answer on how taxation should be handled. 

Be wary of the guidance document "Moving to Ireland" in the _Revenue FAQ_ as it has not been updated for 5 years since which there has been legislation ending the remittance basis of taxation.

My company employed some taxation lawyers in Dublin who's advice was _"the general rule now is that irrespective of the residence or domicile position of an individual such income attributable to the performance in the State of duties of such officer or employment, where the individual spends in excess of 60 days in the State are within the scope of PAYE"_

They further advised that whether I am paid in £ to my UK bank or € to my Irish bank my UK employer needs to register with the Revenue commissioner for PAYE. In my case my employer refuses to do this which leaves me in a rather awkward position.

There are some huge anomolies between the laws of UK and ROI - According to UK tax authorities I should pay UK tax as I haven't been out of the UK for more than 183 days.
According to the Irish tax office I should pay Irish taxes as I've now worked in Ireland for more than 60 days.

I now read that in the last budget the remittance basis of taxation was reinstated for UK sourced income after pressure from the EU. I'm hoping that this means my UK employer can pay my salary gross and let me sort out my tax personally as if I were self employed.

I've contacted both the UK and Irish tax offices, given them the same information and asked them to sort it out. 

If and when I get an answer I'll post it here.... although I may be drawing my pension by then


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## capall (20 Dec 2007)

Why don't you work on a consultancy basis instead of as an employee

At least then you would just be dealing with one tax system. 

Alot of people live in republic and work in the North,they are taxed under UK system but must also do an irish return. Should be the same situation for you


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## billb (20 Dec 2007)

Thanks for the quick reply and advice



capall said:


> Why don't you work on a consultancy basis instead of as an employee


That's a very good idea and one I will follow up on if I can't find a resolution rapidly



capall said:


> Alot of people live in republic and work in the North,they are taxed under UK system but must also do an irish return. Should be the same situation for you


I thought that you were taxed based on where you were resident rather than where you worked. My company has employees who save money by living in Southern Sweden where tax rates are low and commute daily to Copenhagen to work - they are taxed under the Swedish system.

If that's the case I don't understand why workers who commute to the North have to fill in a UK return.

In my case as well I live and work in the ROI now so I would like to remove myself from any UK tax obligations


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## capall (20 Dec 2007)

sweden has no relevance to the irish/uk situation

Don't forget permanent remote working is still a relatively new form of working and to my knowledge neither UK or irish tax authorities have issued specific rules for this

Your UK company will tell you whether they will pay you gross or not. An Irish company can get a PAYE exclusion order for an employee who is resident and working abroad,they might have a similar facility in uk. My guess is they won't pay you gross, you are still working for the uk company,you are just not onsite

As an irish resident you will have to do a tax return in ireland either way. The remittance basis is not relevant to you.
I would not agree with the advice that your uk employer should register for paye,you being resident in ireland does not mean your employer has an irish branch.  I think at the moment your situation is the same as someone living  in dundalk and going to work in newry


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## billb (20 Dec 2007)

I believe the obligation for my company to apply Irish PAYE comes from Chapter 3 of this document - [broken link removed] -although I can't see how the Revenue can place such obligation on a company outside of its juristiction

The reason I thought the remittance basis was relevant was I thought if I was considered Irish resident but still UK domiciled then I could get away with paying tax only on the earnings I brought into the country. 

I see what you mean when you say my case is the same as someone working in the North, just in my case its just my network traffic that does the commute.

It seems as though no provision has been made in either the UK or ROI for taxation of cross-border "teleworkers". I thought it was a mode of working that was being promoted in the EU to reduce travel congestion and pollution.

I don't claim to have any expertise in this area - I'm just a confused engineer and appreciate your comments.


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## CharlieR (20 Dec 2007)

Under Eu law you can work for an employer based in an eu country and pay the tax etc at their rate, the country that they are based in? As you are working from home do you not claim benefits from them for doing this and they then claim tax relief from their respective government for it?

My brother has been working in Amsterdam for a UK contractor and has continued to pay UK tax etc even though he spends most of his time there.


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## mja (31 Dec 2007)

billb said:


> I am in a similar situation as I just moved from the UK to Ireland and am remaining with my UK employer as a remote worker. I can find no clear answer on how taxation should be handled.
> 
> Be wary of the guidance document "Moving to Ireland" in the _Revenue FAQ_ as it has not been updated for 5 years since which there has been legislation ending the remittance basis of taxation.
> 
> ...


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## mja (31 Dec 2007)

Thanks for all the advice and if you find out anymore info then please do post it.


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## Black Sheep (2 Jan 2008)

Are you now Self-Employed having given up your job in UK.
Did you get a P45.

If that is the case you simply Register in Ireland for Tax and continue from there


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## billb (15 Feb 2008)

I finally received an answer from both the UK and Irish tax authorities regarding my situation where I am employed as a remote worker in ireland by a UK company

The *UK Inland Revenue* sent me a P85 "Leaving the UK" form to complete which enables me to obtain a refund of income tax and have my non-resident status acknowledged so that no more deductions are made.

The *Irish Inspector of Taxes* sent me a letter simply stating - _"I refer to your recent correspondance regarding residency in Ireland. Further information can be obtained via www.revenue.ie"_

I can't find clear guidelines on the revenue website so I really don't know what to do next - should I pocket the tax and keep quiet ?


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## Black Sheep (15 Feb 2008)

I think you should now register as a tax payer in Ireland

Form 12a if you are employed
Form TR1 if Self-Employed


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## billb (15 Feb 2008)

Thanks for the feedback - in order to complete the form12a it appears that my employer needs to be PAYE registered.

Do what the implications are when my UK employer refuses to register for Irish PAYE ?


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## funcrusher (15 Feb 2008)

1. Remittance basis is irrelevant when income arises in the UK or Ireland. It only applies to income arising in third countries for persons resident in Ireland (or indeed the Uk) who are not domiciled in the country in which they reside. 

2. I suggest you study the double taxation treaty and see if that helps. 

3. My tentative opinion is that if you are employed by a UK company for services performed in Ireland and you reside in Ireland, then you are outside the UK tax and National insurance system, so you should be paid gross without deductions. You therefore have to declare your income to the Irish Revenue Commisioners. I doubt if they can enforce any requirement on your employer to join the Irish PAYE system since they have no place of business in Ireland - unless they designate your home! I suspect they will accept that you are self-employed and allow you the usual tax reliefs on relevant expenses. (I think it is possible that under EU, UK and Irish law you are entitled to belong to you employer's pension scheme, and get tax relief for any contributions you make to it )

4. There must come a point in which your employment is really self-employment. Deciding factors would be whether you have great freedom of operation, whether you are paid by results, and whether you perform similar work for others.


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## Big Jimmy (17 Feb 2008)

You might find it easier to become self employed and invoice your emoployer every month. Then just do a tax return of your earning every year.

Again I would check with the Revenue, but this may be the easiest way.


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## mathepac (17 Feb 2008)

Big Jimmy said:


> You might find it easier to become self employed and invoice your emoployer every month. Then just do a tax return of your earning every year.
> 
> Again I would check with the Revenue, but this may be the easiest way.


But if OP invoices more than 37k euro per annum then he/she must register for VAT, even if there is no VAT charge to the UK employer.

It seems like a very long-winded way to collect what in reality is a salary.

What would happen to employee pension entitlements by becoming a self-employed contractor?


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