# Landlord tried to keep deposit- luckily I'm a 'clued-in' tenant



## variety (23 Apr 2010)

Just want to relate what happened to me the other day. Moved out of a property on 20/03/10. We had been there for almost 18 months, under a lease (Part 4 Tenancy at that stage, since signed lease was 12 month fixed term).

FINALLY 4 weeks later, after dodging texts and calls from me, the Landlord says he's available to return the deposit and to meet me at the house immediately (no problem, as it's only 5 minutes from my work).

So we're in the property. Begin conversation:
LL: "About return of deposit - to start with, you paid one month's rent in advance, so I owe you that. Rent was €1,300 p/m so that's fine, for starters."
Me: "Deposit was €1,350, as we secured a rent reduction to €1,300, so you owe me €1,350." (luckily I had a copy of the lease on me, so no further disputes.) 
LL not happy, but agrees that he owes €1,350.

Then: refund of €225 for painting of the hall, which LL wanted done before we moved out because he "didn't like the colour" (HE had painted it that colour!!). LL disputed that he would pay that back, since it "constituted wear and tear". 
I stood my ground - the LL had requested the painting for cosmetic reasons and had said he would pay for it before we arranged for it to be painted so there was no way I was being held responsible for it.

Then: LL says he's going to deduct €200 for professional cleaning, since there was "a cobweb" (I reached up and put it in my pocket - voila: no cobweb any more ). 

But LL then goes on, "you know, it's a bit dusty and not lettable in its current condition without a professional clean". WTF!!! I had moved out a month previous and he was complaining of dust?!? AND he's already let the place - people moved in last weekend ("unlettable in its current condition" my ar$e!).

Anyway, I know the law and my rights in relation to the deposit (thank you boards.ie and AAM!), so detailed the circumstances when monies could be withheld from a deposit, and that cleaning is NOT one of them. LL VERY begrudgingly agreed that he "would let that go, then".

When LL finally wrote out a cheque for the correct amount, my name is not on the cheque (luckily I did check it over before I left and got him to correct it). 
Cheque should clear in my account by end of business today, so here's hoping he doesn't cancel the cheque before I can lodge it and it clears.

Sorry, very long post, and no real question, just wanted to point out: 
If I was foreign and wasn't aware of my rights/the law, my landlord could've conceivably just 'stolen' almost a third of MY money. 
Something has to be done about the attitudes of some Landlords - ie some of them have a false sense of entitlement towards other people's money.


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## MrMan (23 Apr 2010)

I would say that most foreign tenants have a better grasp of their rights in terms of letting agreements etc, and some people will do anything to make extra unwarranted money whether they be landlords or tenants.


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## Hans (26 Apr 2010)

I think the problem in this country is that there are not enough cut and dry laws about letting property and that effects both landlords and tenants. With more people deciding to rent in the current climate this will cause more and more problems in the future.  

My sister has rented all her life in Germany and think we are all mad with our urge to own our own property. In Germany you know where you stand in regards to your rights as a tenant and the landlord also knows his rights. As her rented apartment is her home she keeps it in good condition and gets it painted but if the heating breaks down her landlord gets it repaired for her and there is no confusion about who has to do what. I now am a landlord myself (much to her amazement) and I can honestly say in all the years I have had no problems with tenants as I try and treat them fair but I must say I am often dismayed at the condition that tenants leave a house but I have come to expect that I think the Irish have different aproach to renting than their neighbours on the continent and maybe that is something that has to change.


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## lightswitch (26 Apr 2010)

Hans said:


> I think the problem in this country is that there are not enough cut and dry laws about letting property and that effects both landlords and tenants. With more people deciding to rent in the current climate this will cause more and more problems in the future.
> 
> *My sister has rented all her life in Germany and think we are all mad with our urge to own our own property.* In Germany you know where you stand in regards to your rights as a tenant and the landlord also knows his rights. As her rented apartment is her home she keeps it in good condition and gets it painted but if the heating breaks down her landlord gets it repaired for her and there is no confusion about who has to do what. I now am a landlord myself (much to her amazement) and I can honestly say in all the years I have had no problems with tenants as I try and treat them fair but I must say I am often dismayed at the condition that tenants leave a house but I have come to expect that I think the Irish have different aproach to renting than their neighbours on the continent and maybe that is something that has to change.


 
Hi Hans, This is something I have often been curious about. Do most mainland europeans rent from the state, or are there a small group of people who own most of the property and rent it out to people like your sister? Would you sister be in a position to own her own property if she wanted?


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## Hans (26 Apr 2010)

She was renting from a private person but she died a few years ago and let the house to the city of Frankfurt (very patriotic - cant see that happening in Ireland) The lady that owned the house was left the house by a relative so not really an investor which doesn't happen to the same extent in Germany as a matter of fact they have seen alot of outside investors in last few years but these people dont really realise what is expected of them as landlords. 

My sister could probably buy two houses (as could alot of her friends who also rent) but it would not interest her dont think she would take one as a present her rent compared to this country is very small and cannot be greatly increased she has been amazed with rents here over last few years maybe things are different now.


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## crabbybear (27 Apr 2010)

My part 4 tenancy fixed 12 month period is up and paying month to month, when I decide to leave can I just use deposit as last months rent. Have had issues with owners and don't trust them, am I still tied to original agreement even though it was up in january?


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## Hans (28 Apr 2010)

No you can't your deposit is different your landlord has to cover himself I dont know whose name the bills are in like the ESB and that comes out of the deposit. I consider myself a good landlord but I wouldn't allow the deposit to be used as final payment. Maybe if you were a week into a new month it could be deducted from it but that would be all.


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## simplybusine (28 Apr 2010)

On mainland Europe the housing market differs from country to country. For instance, being Dutch myself and originally from Amsterdam, around 70% of the housing market is rent in stead of buying your own property. 60% of the letting market is social housing. I used to rent for 200 euros a month in the centre of Amsterdam (1 bed appartment). Many people with good jobs live in social houses. The look and feel of social houses is quite different to the UK. 

In Scandinavian countries the situation is pretty the same.


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## Hans (28 Apr 2010)

In Germany a lot of the houses are owned by pension funds and so they are not looking for fast investment returns but buy them for long term investment. I think apartment living is much more customary on the continent it is relatively new here and I sometimes think people don’t understand what living so close to others mean. People have to be much more aware of their neighbours and their own behaviour. The way apartments were build in the last decade was not for long term living or not for more than one or two people - families live in apartments in other countries and have adequate room and also within areas with amenities to accommodate families. I would love to retire to an apartment close to everything when I retire but I wouldn't do it in this country from what I have experienced in apartment living here.


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## lightswitch (30 Apr 2010)

Thats interesting stuf Hans, thanks for the information.


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