# Road traffic legislation re: private roads in semi private estates.



## JoeB (31 Aug 2007)

Hi

Following on from another thread where it was suggested that roads in some housing estates are private I would like to ask if anyone knows how this effects things like drink driving and insurance.

I.e Can people drive without tax and insurance?
In unroadworthy cars?
With no lights or seatbelts?
Can people be done for drink driving under the drink driving legislation or would they be done under a general charge like 'endangering life'?
Can children drive without licenses?
Can banned people drive?

Is the situation the same or different to the situation in private carparks, i.e supermarkets or hotels?

Cheers
Joe


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## MOB (1 Sep 2007)

For much (possibly all) road traffic legislation, I think that any place to which the public habitually have recourse is included in the definition of 'public place'.  

This is not an area of law of interest to me, so I am not an expert and am open to correction.  I have a  very vague recollection that the definition of public place (for motor insurance purposes) was considered by an Irish court in a rather odd case:  it was something like this:

1. Girl borrowed father's car, which had dodgy handbrake
2. Girl parked in a private carpark
3. Car rolled away and ran her over, so she sued her father;  Insurance company tried to avoid liability; liability hinged to some extent on whether the accident was in a public place.  Court held it was a public place. 

Perhaps I have misremembered, or my memory may have been embellished things somewhat;  It may be that another lawyer on AAM would have more familiarity with Road Traffic law.  But I think you can fairly safely assume that a 'private' estate is not a place where you are immune from prosecution for drunk driving etc.


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## woods (2 Sep 2007)

I agree with the previous poster on the following basis.
I was obliged to go to court to appear for the Gardai in a case in which they had arrested a person who they had been following and who had driven on to my property.
They were afraid that the defendant would claim that he had been arrested on private property so my role was to state that the property in question was open to the public (being the car park of a business premises) and that no person had ever been prevented from using it and so it constituted a public place.
I do not know if the situation would be different if the road was in a gated community.


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## aircobra19 (2 Sep 2007)

Wondering this myself as a few roads in my area were never handed over from the developer to the local council. At least not yet.


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## MichaelBurke (2 Sep 2007)

Any road, highway, car park etc that has public access is subject to the Road Traffic Act, irrespective of whether it is public or private by ownership.

For example, in theory your driveway is subject to RTA because the postman has access to it.


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## bond-007 (3 Sep 2007)

MichaelBurke said:


> Any road, highway, car park etc that has public access is subject to the Road Traffic Act, irrespective of whether it is public or private by ownership.
> 
> For example, in theory your driveway is subject to RTA because the postman has access to it.


There could be an interesting argument made that the postman is not a member of the public thus preserving your driveway as a private place. I have gates on my drive and the public certainly don't have access.


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## woods (3 Sep 2007)

Put your postbox at the gate.


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