# How Online gambling transactions affect mortgage application



## brokeagain

I was just listening to Conor Pope on Today Fm and he said that having online gambling transactions on your account statement may go against you when applying for a mortgage. 

Just wondering if anyone has experience this? I would think it would be worst to have the transactions going through a credit card. At least there is more control with a laser card.


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## jhegarty

This is the only example of it I have seen:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59310242


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## NorfBank

How you run your current account is of the utmost importance when applying for a mortgage. Yes, it is true that online gambling is frowned up, the annual bet on the National isn't  too bad but if you gamble a lot and are borderline for approval then it could be the factor that results in a decline.

If you're going for a mortgage and you want to give yourself the best chance of approval then you should be saving every penny available. Don't gamble for 6 months or just use cash if you HAVE to bet. It shouldn't be that difficult.

[broken link removed]


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## brokeagain

Thanks for  your replies.

It looks like the best approach is to limit the number of withdrawals from current account and close off Online gamling accounts.

I have about 4 online transactions over the last month, just for a bit of fun, all under 10 euro. I should have gone to the bookies. I used to use my cc but MBNA started charging for gambling so I switched to Laser.


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## Bronte

LiveForTheWE said:


> . I used to use my cc but MBNA .


 
Using borrowed money to gamble can not be good.  Nor is the fact that you mention more than one gambling account.  Not sure but you may need to reassess this.  Nothing wrong with a bit of fun or a bit of gambling but it can become addictive to some.


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## Sunny

Bronte said:


> Using borrowed money to gamble can not be good. Nor is the fact that you mention more than one gambling account. Not sure but you may need to reassess this. Nothing wrong with a bit of fun or a bit of gambling but it can become addictive to some.


 
He never said he borrowed to gamble. He probably pays off the credit card every month. A few €10 transactions here and there is not going to send alarm bells going. There are Grannies who spend more than that on bingo.


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## Liamos

Bronte said:


> Using borrowed money to gamble can not be good. Nor is the fact that you mention more than one gambling account. Not sure but you may need to reassess this. Nothing wrong with a bit of fun or a bit of gambling but it can become addictive to some.


 
He didn't mention more than one gambling account. He said he had 4 transactions over the last month. Presumably with the one account.


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## gipimann

Sunny said:


> He never said he borrowed to gamble. He probably pays off the credit card every month.


 
Aren't some CC companies now treating charges to online gambling sites as cash advances now?  So it is, in effect, borrowed money, with additional costs.

The OP did mention that MBNA are now charging for gambling charges.


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## Sunny

gipimann said:


> Aren't some CC companies now treating charges to online gambling sites as cash advances now? So it is, in effect, borrowed money, with additional costs.
> 
> The OP did mention that MBNA are now charging for gambling charges.


 
MBNA is but the charges on about €40 gambling a month (about 50c) are hardly going to bankrupt him especially if he clears the balance every month. And as he said, he switched to laser. I am not suggesting using a CC is a good idea for gambling but just because someone might enjoy a flutter doesn't make them a candidate for gamblers anonymous.


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## PJM

Does spread betting ([broken link removed]) count as online gambling as far as a mortgage application?


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## Greta

Sunny said:


> There are Grannies who spend more than that on bingo.



Grannies probably pay cash and anyway, they are not looking for mortgage approvals


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## JoeB

I think this is a disgrace. What are the banks, moral police? (The irony..)

I'd ask the bank for what purpose do they want the statements? If they reply, to see figures I'd ask if they intend to make lifestyle judgements. What if I have an expense  in a gay bar? What if I have expenses in Las Vegas? What about gambling? What about my hair renewal treatment, does this indicate insecurity, should the bank consider it? What about my regular trips to Amsterdam, does that indicate anything? What about my contributions to the Church of somewhere?, does that indicate I'm delusional, and thus technically insane? What about my contributions to a policital party?



So no, then bank should state clearly why they weant the statements, and they can only use them for that pourpose. I doubt the banks will admit to wanting to make moral judgements. So I'd ask if I can blank out some of the entries, and only leave the figures remaining. 


This applies even if the account is in the same branch.


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## JoeB

NorfBank said:


> How you run your current account is of the utmost importance when applying for a mortgage. Yes, it is true that online gambling is frowned up, the annual bet on the National isn't  too bad but if you gamble a lot and are borderline for approval then it could be the factor that results in a decline.



Thanks for that. In your experience have you ever seen anything about gambling written down?

Or is it just a hidden rule? Have you ever known a bank to admit to denying an application on the grounds of gambling? I think it's a disgrace that banks would make moral judgements on how people spend their money.

Are banks entitled, under law, to consider if someone is a gambler or not?, and to refuse loans on that basis?

What if someones religion requires them to gamble?, would it be religious discrimination then? Adherents to the God of Chance perhaps...


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## Molly

If the bank account clearly shows affordability to have a flutter then it should not have any bearing on the mortgage approval ( which would appear to be the case for the OP) If however there are debits to a gambling website along with referral fee's or an account which is delinquent, the gambling will most likely adversely effect the underwriters decision.


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## JoeB

But someone may go to the cinema twice a week, whereas the other person might play a poker game.

Why is the poker game player discriminated against? It seems very unfair, and it is a moral judgement on a lifestyle choice, similar to denying applications made by gays, or religious people, etc etc. 

I acceopt that gamblers may present more of a risk than a non gambler, but this is hard to quantify, and the banks are likely over reacting. If they had acturarial calculations done, like insurance companies, showing a clear problem with gamblers then no problem, but that doesn't appear to be the case. It appears to be a moral judgement.

I also think that all banks should be allowed to refuse any and all loans, and give no reason. That would be my starting point, they are private companies after all. It might be that regulations exist to prevent banks from denying applications on certain grounds.. if so the regulations were presumabely introduced to help 'society' at large.. . if so these regulations should be adhered to.

So if banks can make up their own mind on every application then I'm fine with that. If however they have to follow certain rules, and gambling isn't mentioned in the rules then it's unfair to penalise gamblers, as opposed to cinema goers, or drinkers.


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## salvidor

Just my 2 cent...

I would be what most (incorrect) consider a 'heavy gambler', I play cards and trade on betfair and other exchanges mainly - but I would have dozens of different online accounts to take advantage of different prices.  My wife on the other hand has a single paddy power account, I think she may have used in 5 or 6 times.

I have a separate current account, on demand account and credit card for betting, the only transactions for these are from online betting.  These are not my everyday accounts.

When applying for my mortgage (different bank), I sat down with the bank manager and went through these accounts (i brought in 4 years accounts), showing that I have turned modest profit for those 4 years and it was never mentioned again.

On the other hand - the week before we had submitted our 6 (i think) months of statements was Cheltnaham and my wife had a single transfer from her day to day current account to PP account for a grand total of... wait for it... fifteen whole euros (I would have tens of thousands of euro of transactions in a year).  She subsequently received a letter (could have been a call), to go in for a chat with the bank manager.  She went in a said it was a laughable conversation and that the BM was almost embarrassed, but said that it was policy to 'assess potential risk'.

Personally, I think that it is right and proper to assess the individual who has lots/large transactions to there bookie, stock broker etc possible with late fees and such.  How the bank manager is qualified to make this assessment is beyond me.

I think that if your statement showed large ATM withdrawals late night every Friday and Saturday, they might have something to say about that too!

Anyway my tuppence!


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## mwhich

To be fair, it is an underwriter's job to do a risk assessment. If a customer looks risky due to a lot of gambling transactions, it is going to be questioned, especially if it looks like its bordering on addiction.  You're not going to be addicted to going to the cinema, or being gay isn't going to impact on potential repayments as JoeBallantin mentioned above......however if a customer has a suspected gambling addiction, this would bear some weight in the future repayment capacity of the client. Just


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## Curious81

On this topic, just saw the below a few days ago in the Times

_*CANCEL THAT ONLINE GAMBLING ACCOUNT* _
_If you  like the occasional flutter on the gee-gees, or more frequently put bets  on the Premiership, it may be time to cancel your online gambling  account and take a trip to your nearest betting shop instead. While it  may not be included in a bank’s formal lending policy, in the current  climate banks will not look on gambling habits kindly, on the grounds  that it can affect an individual’s ability to repay a loan._

[broken link removed]


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## JoeB

My point is that if a bank refuses a loan on the basis that someone gamnbles, BUT DOESN'T TELL THE CUSTOMER the reason then the customer cannot supply relevant extra information, such as that the transactions may have been made on behalf of another person.

So it's a sceret rule, and secret rules disadvantage the consumer, as the consumer cannot be expected to know anything about rules deliberately kept secret.

If the policy was in print, then no problem. If acturarial data existed to show that all people who gamble are an increased risk then fine too... but in the absence of that data the policy is unfair.


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## joshef

As there is the effects on mortgage application through the online gambling transaction so the wager has to be careful related to this. As the different bank have different types of policy so the wager should know how to deals with that bank related to his money.
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## drhum

Does this still apply for this year? To me, it doesn't really affect our ability to pay the mortage if we gamble just for fun. IMO though.


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## Drakon

I'd say it does.  Weekly credit card usage from pub-based POS terminals was another one.  Banks are being very selective; this is just a handy way of knocking someone.


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## amtc

my local atm happens to be outside a molloys off licence...and shows up as that. I could well look like a raging alcoholic, when I take out cash


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## hfp

I used to be involved in personal loan decisions a number of years ago and excessive gambling was taken into account when making a decision even then, so it's not a new thing.

Certainly where I worked €10, €20, €30 here and there was not worried about, even if a few times a week.  The amounts being spent on the ones that were declined outright was frightening, and in general would have amounted to the cost of many peoples mortgage payments.  The lender I worked for had no 'appetite' to lend to people who decided to gamble away hundreds of euro a month that could have been saved, it was seen as irresponsible financial management.  

The worst example I saw was someone looking a €3000 car loan over 3 years, but they could have bought the car outright after 2 months of not gambling...

Note also that credits for winnings were completely disregarded, only the amount of debits were assessed, gambling winnings are not seen as an acceptable source of income!!



JoeB said:


> My point is that if a bank refuses a loan on the basis that someone gamnbles, BUT DOESN'T TELL THE CUSTOMER the reason then the customer cannot supply relevant extra information, such as that the transactions may have been made on behalf of another person.
> 
> So it's a sceret rule, and secret rules disadvantage the consumer, as the consumer cannot be expected to know anything about rules deliberately kept secret.



All banks keep their full underwriting criteria secret to some extent so that customers do not manipulate their accounts/hide expenditure to meet known criteria.  The banks need a full and honest account of a customers spending patterns to make a balanced decision on affordability.


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## Drakon

hfp said:


> Note also that credits for winnings were completely disregarded, only the amount of debits were assessed, gambling winnings are not seen as an acceptable source of income!!



I was wondering about this.  I withdrew a few grand at the end of March from my account and I was wondering if this would "offset" the couple of hundred I'd lodged last autumn.  Obviously not.


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