# higher public servant salary when holding a Degree



## texmex (29 Aug 2008)

Hello

This is my first thread on AAM, And it about the civil/public service salary in Ireland... 

I've gone through college and gotten my honors degree in business & IT. After leaving college got a job as a public servant (HSE), Unknowing at the time how rubbish the pay was starting off. I'm on the lowest grade i.e. grade 3 thats 23000 annual.

Now I've heard from many different sources that if i went in to the guards or worked for the civil service I'd be on a higher starting salary due to my degree. So first question is, Is this true?

*Second question, the main question, Should i be getting paid more in my current job due to my degree?*

Just today i hear from someone working in the central bank, that the salary there is higher if you have a degree also. this was to keep it in line with the civil service. I know the central bank isn't part of the civil service but they are still keeping in line with them...


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## j26 (29 Aug 2008)

No, the general civil service doesn't generally have allowances for qualifications.  There could be the odd little anomalous post here and there, but they'd be rare, if they exist at all.


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## di74 (29 Aug 2008)

Not 100% sure but teachers do get a higher salary (academic allowance) for having an honours degree.


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## texmex (29 Aug 2008)

Thanks for you're speedy reply guys... Very much appreciated 

I was on the HSEA.ie (the HSE-Employers Agency ) site and there's nothing regarding any academic allowance's. I'm going to investigate more in to it though. Do you know any where else i could find out more about this topic?


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## gipimann (29 Aug 2008)

There are some civil service (and I'm sure public service) jobs which are for graduates only - the one that comes to mind is Administrative Officer / Third Secretary in CS.

I think Nursing also recognises additional qualifications (or used to, prior to nurse training becoming a degree qualification - not sure now).   Other than that, having been in the public service myself for 30 years, I've never come across any academic allowances for clerical/admin staff.

Have you asked your Trade Union for information?


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## pinkyBear (29 Aug 2008)

Hi there, having worked in an IT Department basically the Public Sector does not recognise the IT qualification as anything other than an Admin role. This starts off at a grade 3...


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## Christy (29 Aug 2008)

texmex said:


> Unknowing at the time how rubbish the pay was starting off. I'm on the lowest grade i.e. grade 3 thats 23000 annual.



Just out of interest how much do you think you should be earning in your first job after leaving college?  €23k would seem reasonable to me especially when you consider all the _perks_ of the public sector.

Christy


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## kramer2006 (29 Aug 2008)

texmex said:


> After leaving college got a job as a public servant (HSE), Unknowing at the time how rubbish the pay was starting off.



 So are you saying you accepted a job and gave your *entire career* to the public service without knowing about their pay scales??


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## Allen (29 Aug 2008)

In some professional/scientific posts in the Civil Service you can start at a higher increment point with an honours degree rather than (what used to be) a pass degree.  I don't think it applies to administration posts where a degree is not a requirement.


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## texmex (29 Aug 2008)

Christy said:


> Just out of interest how much do you think you should be earning in your first job after leaving college? €23k would seem reasonable to me especially when you consider all the _perks_ of the public sector.


 

  Hi Christy thanks for you’re comment


  I agree there is perks to working in the public sector, I also feel I should inform you that I’m still on a temporary contract, as is everyone that started at the same time as me. I didn’t mind, as most jobs start off this way, but recently found out I could be temporary for the next two years. So what does that have to do with perks? Well, the perks that have any merit with me would be the career breaks you can take. But this is only available for permanent staff. Sure, flexi time is great but you’re still doing you’re contracted hours.


  I consider going to college as an apprenticeship, upon leaving you haven’t mastered you’re trade, you’re still learning but you have got the know how, to jump in and get the job done, quicker that someone that has no experience at all. 



Christy said:


> how much do you think you should be earning in your first job after leaving college?


 I think any one with an honours college degree should be on At Least 25k minimum… it’s not much of an in crease but it brings it up to par with everyone else.


  Conceder a painter apprenticeship…  A fully qualified painter would be on average €650 basic before tax a week net rate after 4 years apprenticeship. Their not masters of the trade just qualified to do their job, as is some one coming out of college.


  Going by apprentice’s I asked that have done and are doing there apprenticeships, I’m on a salary, equivalent to second year apprentice.


    Kramer Hi also thank for you’re comment


kramer2006 said:


> So are you saying you accepted a job and gave your *entire career* to the public service without knowing about their pay scales??


 
  Stupidly, the short answer is yes. I did ask around on other forums but didn’t believe what I was hearing. Only really found out how true it was in the interview. The job’s I went for before hand all wanted 2 years min experience. Which is a topic for another thread. But as regards giving my *entire career* to the public service It's not looking likely. I love my job, but we're all working to make money...


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## becky (30 Aug 2008)

texmex said:


> Hi Christy thanks for you’re comment
> Well, the perks that have any merit with me would be the career breaks you can take. But this is only available for permanent staff. Sure, flexi time is great but you’re still doing you’re contracted hours.
> 
> I think any one with an honours college degree should be on At Least 25k minimum… it’s not much of an in crease but it brings it up to par with everyone else.
> ...


 
I work in the HSE and can tell you everyone starts at the min uless they have previous service with another public service body. 

You are entitled to apply for a career break regardless of your temp status but you may not get it. There are plenty of HSE staff on career break who can't return at the minute due to recruitment restrictions.

There is another general round increase due 1st Sept but the new scales have not been issued yet. 

You need to look at the number of hours you are working - Most jobs are 35 or 39 hour. You also get an increment every year as well as general round increases.


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## SarahMc (31 Aug 2008)

Your analogy with apprenticeships does not work.  A plumber is working as a plumber, someone who has not done a plumbing apprenticeship cannot do the job.

A degree was not a requirement for your job, and having one does not mean you are any better equiped / more efficient as a Clerical Officer than the person beside you who joined with a cert/ straight from LC/after a back to work course.

Having said that, the degree will be helful in applying for promotions.


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## texmex (1 Sep 2008)

Becky, thanks for the comment... 
The recruitment restrictions are a pain, its bad how some people can't come back, we definitely need them in our area. I was told you had to be permanent for the break, anyway unfortunately due to the embargo the perk of a career break isn't an option. I know most jobs are 35 or 39 hours and what we do but its not much less. 2 to 5 hours in the difference even if you were to work the extra hours it still wouldn't bring you salary up much.

The yearly increase is brilliant if you go straight in to the civil/public service after school, as this will bring you up to par with every one else after 4 years. But again that no good if you've gone to college for 4 years and then start.



SarahMc also thanks for the comment... 
I'm sorry but the analogy does work, especially in my position. I didn't get a job in the public sector where I know nothing about the role. I wouldn't have gone for it if it something i had no interest in. After my time in college I'm more than qualified for my job, I'd say (not to be to modest ha) over qualified, but that's my opinion and that's besides the point.

Right, to bring in what Becky was saying in. You get a yearly increment ok! now if you start off after you're L/C after 4 years ( i.e the same amount of time you are in college for) you're on the same salary as a qualified trades man around 650 a week. why shouldn't someone with a degree qualification in the area they are working in get the same?



SarahMc said:


> A degree was not a requirement for your job


You're 100% right you don't need a degree for the role I'm in, you can learn everything you need to know there, you do need to do a course though to do different parts of the job effectively and efficiently, which they send you on. but is this is all "similar" to an apprenticeship?

I don't think you realise/know. That Clerical Officer is the title given to almost all people where i am (HSE/Civil service), and I tell you we do a hell of allot more work then just deal with Clerical issues. Amongst other reasons As far as i can see the title of Clerical Officer is given in case you need to be relocated to a different department or is part of the temp contracts. I'm not sure.



SarahMc said:


> A degree was not a requirement for your job, and having one does not mean you are any better equipped / more efficient as a Clerical Officer than the person beside you who joined with a cert/ straight from LC/after a back to work course.


Regarding this quote  you're correct, BUT You are also *completely wrong*, as my "clerical officer" role is in my area of expertise. when i started the job I did need to get to know how things were run obviously I'm still learning this or I would be on this forum. But in regards my role, I excel at what I do mostly because of what I learned in college


*Thanks to everyone who commented so far...*


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## kramer2006 (1 Sep 2008)

texmex said:


> But as regards giving my *entire career* to the public service It's not looking likely. I love my job, but we're all working to make money...



Well, chalk it down to experience Tex. Remember though, while we all need to earn decent money, ask yourself this: do you really want to work for the next 30 (?) years in an environment where you won't be rewarded for furthering your education and taking an interest in your job. I've contracted for the civil service before and I found it a deadening experience; the level of apathy and laziness were frequently something to behold. The only reason I stuck around was the money; I couldn't imagine committing myself to that type of environment for the rest of my working life.

What I'm trying to say is, the money is important, but you need to consider your sanity and job satisfaction also. Good luck with your decision.

K.


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## SarahMc (1 Sep 2008)

Texmex, I didn't mean to demean the CO role, I know some of them are very demanding.  I just meant that I don't know of any Grade III job for which holding a degree is a requirement.

The vast majority of degree holders in this role don't stay long in it, they either use it as a door into the civil service, work damn hard, upskill as much as they can and get promoted, or they get disillusioned and leave for pastures new.


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## texmex (3 Oct 2008)

Thank you all for your replies you've all been very informative. 

For my last post, here's my conclusions i kept it short.
Having academic experiences i.e. Degree/Masters in most cases, will not benefit you. Obviously it depends what job you're going for. Its possible it might have some benefit when going for another position, but that's to be seen(personally i don't think it will).

Its good working for the Civil Service, there are good perks. Would I recommend working for the CS. Yes... But I'd suggest if you plan on trying to get a job with the CS and get a college education. Don't go to college and then try get the job. Get the job after leaving school and go to night college. that way you'll have a good salary and a degree. rather than a degree and rubbish salary.

I must say, i like my job and the people i work with are brilliant.

Thanks again to everyone


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## bamboozle (3 Oct 2008)

texmex said:


> Thank you all for your replies you've all been very informative.
> 
> For my last post, here's my conclusions i kept it short.
> Having academic experiences i.e. Degree/Masters in most cases, will not benefit you. Obviously it depends what job you're going for. Its possible it might have some benefit when going for another position, but that's to be seen(personally i don't think it will).
> ...


 

Texmex, although you'd like a higher salary, one of the benefits of having a diploma/degree/masters/professional qualification on your CV is that it generally gets your foot in the door, once the door opens for you its up to you to walk through it and only your ability at the job should dictate how you advance.


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## Bob Nellies (9 Dec 2008)

to clarify: 

qualifications make no difference to your salary in the civil service. end of story. 

the only time qualifications come into play, is in your eligibility to apply for post via an EXTERNAL competition. Once you're in, you're in, and even if you become a qualified barrister after you've joined the CS (studying at night or whatever) it will make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to your salary. 


BN


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## Diziet (10 Dec 2008)

texmex said:


> Thank you all for your replies you've all been very informative.
> 
> For my last post, here's my conclusions i kept it short.
> Having academic experiences i.e. Degree/Masters in most cases, will not benefit you. Obviously it depends what job you're going for. Its possible it might have some benefit when going for another position, but that's to be seen(personally i don't think it will).
> ...



If you like your job and want to stay in it, then you already know what the salary is and that your degree does not make a difference. If you want your degree to be recognised, then move. I don't think it is worth complaining about something that is very clear from the outset to be honest. But you can't have it both ways. If I were employing someone, then qualifications would come into play. With a new grad, there is very little experience to judge them on. A good degree does make a difference. If the grad was applying for the type of post for which no such qualification was required and then asked for more money just because they had a degree, I would be asking exactly what they are bringing to the position that makes the money worthwhile. The mere presence of a degree is not relevant.

There are always other jobs and others who are paid better/have better conditions etc. My advice is, if you want one of these jobs, go out there and try and get one. 

Also, not all degrees are created equal. For example, you need a degree in pharmacy to be a pharmacist. You don't need a business degree to work in business, you can do it from other routes as well.

Your estimation that you should work after school, then do a degree, probably only works in your situation. And even then - do you have any idea how hard it is to work and study at the same time?


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## amgd28 (10 Dec 2008)

Also with regard to your analogy to the plumber.
The plumber in question is most likely earning ZERO at present nor is there a likelihood of them earning a whole lot in the foreseeable.
So on reflection, which would you rather?


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## AlbacoreA (10 Dec 2008)

SarahMc said:


> Your analogy with apprenticeships does not work.  A plumber is working as a plumber, someone who has not done a plumbing apprenticeship cannot do the job.
> 
> A degree was not a requirement for your job, and having one does not mean you are any better equiped / more efficient as a Clerical Officer than the person beside you who joined with a cert/ straight from LC/after a back to work course.
> 
> Having said that, the degree will be helful in applying for promotions.



I'm being pedantic but lots of people do their own DIY plumbing, without an apprenticeship and to a good standard. Better then some qualified tradesmen.


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## Diziet (10 Dec 2008)

Lots of people do their own clerical admin and IT too. What is the DIY plumbing relevant?


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