# Should I ask for paid maternity leave?



## househunter0 (21 May 2009)

Hi all

My husband & I are hoping to start a family soon. The company which a work for (private sector) is quite a small company, we don't have a company handbook but I know that they do not pay employees while on maternity leave. 

I have had a few calls from recruitment agencies recently regarding other positions that are available in my area - one is actually with a former company of mine who I know definitely pay maternity leave - and I am thinking about pursuing these positions further. To be honest, I don't really want to leave where I am at the moment but on the other hand, I don't want to be left out of pocket if, please God, we are lucky enough to have a child. My husband is a school teacher but does not have a permanent post, hence why I am anxious about paid maternity leave. 

I have been toying with the idea of asking my manager about the possibility of the company giving paid maternity leave. I am a bit reluctant though because a) I don't want to 'count my chickens' that I will get pregnant and b) I don't know how my manager will take it. She is a very down-to-earth person but will she think that I am planning on leaving the company soon and being away from my job for 6months? As a background, I have been with the company for over 3 years and I more or less manage myself in the role that I carry out and have always been given high praise in any personnel reviews that I was involved in. 

I would really appreciate any advice people would be able to offer.

Thanks.


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## homeowner (21 May 2009)

IMO no, you should not ask. Realistically you are going to be away for minimum 6 months, they will have to pay someone to cover for you or shift your work to someone else and they are a small business probably feeling the pinch already.  Some companies are just not in a position to pay for a role twice.


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## househunter0 (21 May 2009)

Thanks for your opinion homeowner. I guess to provide a bit more background, our company is actually doing quite well at the moment, we are one of the few who have been hiring in recent times. The position which I occupy is quite specialised and there is one other person in my team. We should really have at least one other person on our team with the volume of work that we get through, however, the two of us have managed to keep things ticking over quite well and therefore, in some ways the company have saved already!


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## Nige (21 May 2009)

Why not just have a chat with your manager to tell them that you have had a few head hunting calls recently and, while you are very happy where you are, other employers would be willing to offer more money and/or more perks - such as maternity leave and you have to consider your options.

I presume even part-pay during maternity leave would make more current position more attractive. Your employer might not be willing to set a precendent but, instead, might offer you more money which you could then save for you future maternity leave(s).


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## Oppenheimer (21 May 2009)

If you have the appropriate PRSI contributions you do know you are entitled to Maternity Benefit, right?  http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/BirthChildrenAndFamilies/MaternityBenefit/Pages/mb.aspx

In many cases employer's calculate the difference between this benefit and your salary and pay the difference, others, more small companies do not pay at all, simply letting you rely on your statutory benefits.


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## dinjoecurry (21 May 2009)

I as an employer would not pay maternity as it would set a precedent


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## Timmore (21 May 2009)

Hi, I wanted to respond becasue I did what the OP propsoes some six years ago. I worked in a small company (70/80 people). I was the only person filling my busy, specialised role. Times were good and there were other jobs around. I took a pragmatic view that other companies were willing to pay mat leave (less the social welfare contribution) and I could get a job with such a company. I talked to my boss (a director of the company) and told him that the lack of mat leave was a big issue for me and I made it clear (without being rude or sounding too demanding) that mat leave was a make or break issue for me. I did tell him I didn't care if they brought in a general policy or just did a deal with me. They brought in a policy - 80% paid (less social welfare contribution) plus an additional 10% after I was back for 3 months. I was happy with this. Mat pay is an important issue and for me it was simple I could not afford to not get paid and importantly I could get another job that did pay if needed. If you decide to go ahead and ask then I would try to present it in a very practical light - it is a practical issue after all. The difference between what I did then and doing the same thing now are the availabilty of jobs and the longer length of mat leave now. Finally, if you are banking on being able to get another job that does pay mat leave if your own employer turns you down remember that some companies have a waiting period before you can avail of their paid mat leave - e.g. six or twelve months so that would be worth checking.


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## househunter0 (21 May 2009)

Timmore, thanks very much for your post. To be honest, I was thinking of going down the same route as yourself. I don't want to have to leave my job and I don't want to be demanding anything - I've never been the type of person to demand anything, have never asked for anything and have always been happy with what I got - but this is a real issue for me and I feel I have to try and do something now and not wait until it's a bigger issue for me. I think I will have a chat with my manager, she knows that I am not the type to ask for much so I'm hoping that she might look into it for me at least. I really don't think they would want to see me leave as they would be left in a bit of a mess so hopefully we can some to some sort of agreement. 

Thanks to all for your posts. I really appreciate it.


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## Oppenheimer (22 May 2009)

househunter0 said:


> Timmore, thanks very much for your post. To be honest, I was thinking of going down the same route as yourself. I don't want to have to leave my job and I don't want to be demanding anything - I've never been the type of person to demand anything, have never asked for anything and have always been happy with what I got - but this is a real issue for me and I feel I have to try and do something now and not wait until it's a bigger issue for me. I think I will have a chat with my manager, she knows that I am not the type to ask for much so I'm hoping that she might look into it for me at least. I really don't think they would want to see me leave as they would be left in a bit of a mess so hopefully we can some to some sort of agreement.
> 
> Thanks to all for your posts. I really appreciate it.



If you do go have a discussion, work out the numbers first so you can demonstrate the drop in income you will be stuck with and how this affects you in a serious way, i.e., try to be objective and factual rather than just saying its an issue without having considered the numbers and what the drop in income means.  As an employer, I prefer to have discussions based on facts rather than perception, it also will demonstrate you have thought it through in a more practical way.

Also, employers, by law, cannot give a benefit to one person that is not then available to others so whether you like it or not, you will be asking your employer to start a precedent.


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## Oppenheimer (22 May 2009)

You point to benefits of a particular level.  If I give one manager a car I cannot deprive another manager at the same level of responsibility of that benefit.  If there are stated benefits relating to a particular status in a company then it is deemed fair that those benefits are applied to all of the same status.  If there are other people with the same contract conditions and terms of service as househunter0 then any benefits given to her must also be given to them.


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## TheBlock (22 May 2009)

My Wife is about to go on maternity leave from a very small (>30) private company. They have never had anyone take maternity leave before so this was a new situation they found themselves in. The agreement reached with my other half was that they would not be paying her any maternity leave but that would give her a lump some bonus two months after her return. While this leaves us budgeting very hard through her Maternity leave I believe that her employer was very fair with her (and we get a holiday with her bonus next year  ) 

Maybe something along these lines could be approached with your employer.


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## WaterSprite (22 May 2009)

Oppenheimer said:


> You point to benefits of a particular level.  If I give one manager a car I cannot deprive another manager at the same level of responsibility of that benefit.  If there are stated benefits relating to a particular status in a company then it is deemed fair that those benefits are applied to all of the same status.  If there are other people with the same contract conditions and terms of service as househunter0 then any benefits given to her must also be given to them.



Sorry, but no, that's still not correct.  You can't treat people differently on the basis of any of the grounds prohibited in Equality Legislation, but can treat them differently for any other reason.  For example, you could give all the redheads in a company a car and none of the others (provided that the policy didn't disproportionately affect one protected class of people over another).  This is regardless of whether people are of the same seniority - seniority in an organisation is not a protected class.

The company can give OP maternity pay and not give it to others.


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## Jewel (22 May 2009)

Oppenheimer said:


> You point to benefits of a particular level. If I give one manager a car I cannot deprive another manager at the same level of responsibility of that benefit. If there are stated benefits relating to a particular status in a company then it is deemed fair that those benefits are applied to all of the same status. If there are other people with the same contract conditions and terms of service as househunter0 *then any benefits given to her must also be given to them.*


 
Sorry Openheimer - this is incorrect. 

There is nothing in law that says the two managers have to receive the exact same benefits. Just like nothing says that the two managers at the same level have to receive the exact same salary level. 
In a situation where employees negotiate their own packages, then basically anything goes. If a manager is offered a position but then negotiates a car (as a perk, not a requirement) and maybe 12% bonus payment, but then a different manager comes along and only negotiates an 8% bonus payment and no car, then so be it. 
Just like an employer might provide educational assistance (i.e. an employee benefit) for one manager to pursue an M.Ba if they negotiated for that benefit and not provide funding for another similar grade employee. 
Or, one empoyee might be provided with relo assistance and sign on bonus (both of which are classed as benefits) and another employee might not be provided with it. 

Anyway - back to the question... to the OP - there's an old saying that "a dumb priest never got a parish"...i.e. if you don't ask , you don't get. 

Go for it!


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## househunter0 (10 Jun 2009)

Hi all

Thanks to everyone for their comments, they are very much appreciated. I had a chat with my manager about it and the company have now decided that they will introduce 4 months paid with the option of taking a further 2 months unpaid. I am delighted that I asked - as you said jewel, "a dumb priest never got a parish". 

Thanks again to everyone.


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## zippitydooda (10 Jun 2009)

Househunter - as a professional working mother I commend your balls with asking your employer in advance of even getting pregnant and I also commend your (female) boss for being receptive and open to this discussion (I wonder is she planning on a pregnancy herself?

Maternity leave is a massive bonus (and a just one) for women in work - I do believe that men and women should be able to share the leave between them if its suits and therefore even out the equality issue as men and women both carry a similar risk of being out of work due to maternity leave...

Unfortunately I'm self employed and saving like a mad yoke to see if I can afford another child....here's hoping!


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## Timmore (10 Jun 2009)

Househunter - that is great news. Delighted for you. I just wanted to pass on a strategy I used over the unpaid portion of my mat leave.

I wanted to take my full statutory entitlement but it would have been a strain finacailly so I offered to my boss that I would come back part time 3 days one week, 2 days the next i.e. 10 days a month or half-time. This worked for me in terms of childcare, it meant I could still have decent time with my baby. Also it lasted a long time because I was taking my full entitlement but not all together  in a 2 month block if you foillow me. It worked for my boss too and they jumped at the chance to get me back in the office early albeit part-time. I did not bring this up as an option for them until we got to the unpaid stage of my leave as the pros and cons were clear to all of us by then. It was a win win situation.

Good luck!


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## Purple (10 Jun 2009)

zippitydooda said:


> Unfortunately I'm self employed and saving like a mad yoke to see if I can afford another child....here's hoping!


Mrs Purple is in the same position; she's taking two weeks off and then working mornings for 4 weeks after that before going back full time.


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## zippitydooda (10 Jun 2009)

I had full pay (not even a deduction for the state benefit) for my last child so I am fully aware of the benefits of full maternity pay...and as a senior executive I am also aware of the downtime and resource issues associated with pregnancy and maternity leave.  

Having suffered a terrible time at the hands of my (male) boss in my last position, and successfully winning a legal challenge against this treatment I would now prefer to pay for my own maternity leave if at all possible...at least I don't 'owe' anyone anything.

I am all in favour of a stepped payment system...i.e. if you are in company 6 months, no pay...2 years, 18 weeks pay...4-5 years, full pay... that's why I would prefer to pay for myself and not be a burden to an employer (and deal with the associated risks and consequences).  Unfortunately high mortgages and 2 family income lifestyles mean this is becoming more and more difficult!!!


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## Jewel (10 Jun 2009)

househunter0 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their comments, they are very much appreciated. I had a chat with my manager about it and the company have now decided that they will introduce 4 months paid with the option of taking a further 2 months unpaid. I am delighted that I asked - as you said jewel, "a dumb priest never got a parish".
> 
> Thanks again to everyone.


 
Hey - good for you! 
Having had one maternity leave on just statutory, and one on full pay, I know first hand the difference it can make. 

Hope the baby part of the plan falls into place just as easily for you now as well


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