# JA - same sex relationship means tested?



## Betty boop (24 Feb 2009)

Hi, am unemployed, same sex partner working full time. When they do the means test for JA will a same sex couple be treated the same as hetero couple? On welfare.ie states :co-habiting couple: acting as "man and wife" everywhere. Thanking you.


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## Welfarite (25 Feb 2009)

Yes, a same-sex couple are treated the same as a hetero couple for SW purposes. There has been debate on other threads about what is taken into account when defining co-habitation. There is no definition in law for it. SW use the following (for 'husband and wife' you can read 'same sex couple' for your purposes):

*LIVING TOGETHER* as husband and wife: 
1. CO-RESIDENCE
2. HOUSEHOLD RELATIONSHIP:
- FINANCES SHARED
- DUTIES SHARED
Living together *AS HUSBAND AND WIFE*:
3. STABILITY
4. SOCIAL
5. SEXUAL

See this for more explanation


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## Dreamerb (25 Feb 2009)

I'm loth to disagree with Welfarite, who's normally very well informed on these things, but this is _not _accurate. Same-sex couples are treated as individuals under the social welfare code. The legal term "living together as husband and wife" (which _is _in the Social Welfare code) applies to opposite sex couples only.

In fact, the full term used for a variety of social welfare purposes, is "'spouse means [...] a man and woman who are not married to each other but are cohabiting as *husband* and *wife*."

See, for example, subsection (10) in this link:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0026/sec0003.html

There is an ongoing exercise in the Department of Social and Family Affairs on equality proofing the social welfare code, and this is obviously liable to change.


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## Welfarite (25 Feb 2009)

Dreamerb, I was under the impression that same-sex couples were treated as cohabitating for SW purposes (there is no legal term for cohabitation). But if you say otherwise, I can't argue as I have no evidence of which way is correct....! 

Any examples out there of experiences of same-sex couples being treated as individuals under SW rules?...


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## Dreamerb (25 Feb 2009)

jaybird said:


> It does repeatedly mention man and woman in the text, it doesn't provide for a same sex relationship. On the other hand, there is nothing in the text to specifically exclude same-sex relationships. There must be a ruling somewhere though?


The legislative definition (at the link I provided) is very clear - it says "a man and woman who are not married to each other but are cohabiting as husband and wife.". That is not and cannot be interpreted as including a same-sex relationship.


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## Dreamerb (25 Feb 2009)

Welfarite said:


> Dremerb, I was under the impression that same-sex couples were treated as cohabitating for SW purposes (there is no legal term for cohabitation). But if you say otherwise....
> 
> Any examples out there of experiences of same-sex couples being treated as individuals under SW rules?...


100% confident! It is liable to change consequent on DSFA's current exercise, but there's so much to be changed that it's dragging very slowly...


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## Dreamerb (25 Feb 2009)

jaybird said:


> [...] as you added that after I had written my post[...]




Premature posting strikes again!


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## Welfarite (25 Feb 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dreamerb.


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## Betty boop (25 Feb 2009)

Dear all, thank you for that, very helpful and just goes to show that there is alot of work to be done on the equality front as yet.


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## Bronte (26 Feb 2009)

You are joking, isn't it better for social welfare to be treated as two individuals rather that a couple.  I have no problem with social welfare treating a same sex couple as a married couple if they can get all the benefits available in the tax code and under inheritance laws etc.


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## Caveat (26 Feb 2009)

Related info: some survey (can't remember details, on _Today FM_ news this morning) apprently yielded that the majority of Irish people (I think it mentioned 6/10) are in favour of same sex marriages.


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## Smashbox (26 Feb 2009)

I think it would be nice to have the choice to be seen as a couple if you are in a loving, same sex relationship. There are a lot of people trying to get equality, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.


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