# Social Welfare Pensions for female Civil Servant who left in the 60s (marriage bar)



## Nellie123 (20 Oct 2007)

I was a female Civil Servant in the Sixties, left  (due to the Marriage Bar) to get married and became a stay-at-home wife for many years. Returned to the workforce (private employment) having reared thefamily.  
When I applied for my Old Age Pension no records of PRSI (WOPS as it was then, was the reduced rate of PRSI paid I believe, by Male Civil Servants) can be found.
       I have spoken to may friends who are in a similar situation.      Pension Office insists that we paid WOPS but cannot show proof.    Therefore my pension will be paid on the assumption that WOPS payments were made.    These supposed WOPS payments have the affect of reducing my rate of Pension.                                                                                              

Where are you all - Female Civil Servants of the Sixties???
Has anybody out there had a similar Experience.


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## Marie (21 Oct 2007)

*Social Welfare Pensions for Female Civil Servant who left in the Sixties(MarriageBar)*

Nellie - I had to investigate this at a time when I anticipated returning to Ireland 4 years ago to care for my then- terminally-ill parent and went to social services to discuss the situation.

I left school at 16 and worked for 6 years in Ireland before becoming an economic migrant to England in 1971 and subsequently part of the workforce, but with a gap of 10 years in the UK university system acquiring the education I had missed.

To cut to the chase I learned then that state pension is calculated over the timespan of working life.  For women in particular - and for men who for any reason have a gap in their earnings-related contributions to the scheme - this automatically results in a lower pension.  As far as I could establish there are no mitigating circumstances - 'it's the system'.  I do think the issue warrants a high-profile campaign and is discriminatory in terms of gender.


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## Nellie123 (21 Oct 2007)

*Re: Social Welfare Pensions for Female Civil Servant who left in the Sixties(Marriage*

Thanks Marie!   but my query is specifically about former civil servants whose qualifying criteria for Social differs from those  who worked in the private sector for all of their working life. Mine is a mix of Civil Service and private employment.

You are correct when you say that gaps in employment will affect Pension. 

The amount of your Pension is calculated on the total No. of PRSI paid throughout your working life divided by the total No. of years to age 66.

EXAMPLE- Started work in 1960 and reached 66 in 2007. Working life is deemed to be 46 years(regardless of 10 years out of the workforce). Say you have a total of 1500 payments, they are divided by 46 to give a yearly average of 32.   This will entitle you to a 98% pension (current rate €205 per week)

Unfortunately the situation for mixed employment is even more complex.

N


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## Marie (21 Oct 2007)

In that case it would seem you need a combination of an accountant or financial advisor plus information from the administrators of the Civil Service pension scheme or enquire of the Revenue Commissioners directly here http://www.revenue.ie/ .  All the best with it!


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## gipimann (21 Oct 2007)

For information, the Dept of Social and Family Affairs introduced the Homemakers Scheme to attempt to redress the difficulties faced by persons taking time out of the workforce to care for children when it comes to qualifying for a pension.

If a person meets the qualifying criteria (see  here) it can take some years out of those used to calculate a pension and might entitle a pensioner to payment at a higher rate.


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## Nellie123 (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Social Welfare Pensions for female Civil Servant who left in the 60s (marriage ba*

Thanks gipimann - but I do not qualify for Homemakers Years  as they only  affected  people  whose children under  12  in 1994 onwards. 

What I  really like to find is someone who was able to get PRSI (WOPS) records.  I am not convinced that we ever paid PRSI/WOPS. We were paid in cash, no payslips, no P60's.
N


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## Welfarite (22 Oct 2007)

WOPS was compulsory for men appointed on or after 1 January, 1969 and women appointed on or after 1 June, 1981. Men and women serving prior to the relevant dates were given options to join the scheme so how can the Pensions Section insist that you were in that scheme without proof?

also, would it not be the date that you started paying full-rate PRSI contributions that would be taken for pension purposes?


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## gipimann (22 Oct 2007)

As far as I recall, pensions are calculated using your date of entry into insurable employment, whether that insurance was full or reduced rate.  This is what catches people who were out of the workforce for some time, or didn't pay full-rate PRSI at some stage, because the contributions are spread over all years not just those in which they were paid.


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## Nellie123 (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Social Welfare Pensions for female Civil Servant who left in the 60s (marriage ba*

Thanks a million Welfarite. Thats part of the jig-saw except I was appointed in 1960 and I can not remember if we were given options at the time. Therefore I dont remember whether or not we paid - Hence the requirement for records and proof. 

If I had returned to the workforce (private employment) prior to April 6th 1991 (say January 1991) my working life would be deemed to be 16 years and my total number of PRSI payments would be divided by 16 to get the yearly average, therefore I would be entitled to the full rate of Pension 

As I returned to the workforce in 1994 my total  noumber (from 1994 - 2007) of PRSI payments are being divided by 46 giving me a partial Pension.


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