# Dr. China



## tigra (3 Nov 2006)

Hi All,

Just wondering about Dr. China that seems to have sprung up in Ireland recently. Has anyone used them? I was handed their info at their store in Douglas and they seem to be able to help(not cure)many medical problems. 
I was thinking of giving them a vist but was hoping someone has already visited them and would be willing to share their views.

Thanks


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## beaky (3 Nov 2006)

I was roped into a store for a free consultation.  That (5 min) consultation concluded.....that I needed acupuncture for my complaint.  They then offered me a cut price acupuncture session there and then which I took as the initial consult didnt demonstrate anything to me.  After 25 min session was asked to sign up for 20 more sessions. When I explained that I lived 35 miles away they said they would be opening a store in my town so I could still sign up. After steadly declining I was strongly urged to buy herbal tea for €30 approx.  I bought it partly to get out of there and partly to try it.  Didnt do anything for me.

My overall feeling was one of a well drilled sales team.  I havn't had any more sessions , with any acupuncture practitioner, but that may be my unwillingness to quit the habit.  Cannot really give you a report on how good the treatment is, or how good Dr China is.  But my overall impression is that they are to chineese medicine, what Mc Donalds is to cuisine, and very strong on the supersize option.


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## MugsGame (3 Nov 2006)

The IMO may have something to say about their use of the restricted term Dr in connection with "medical" services.


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## ClubMan (3 Nov 2006)

Before paying for acupuncture you might want to read up on it - e.g. here:

acupuncture


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## MOB (3 Nov 2006)

That was an interesting link, and it led to another, from the BBC, from which I quote:

"We have found something quite unexpected - that acupuncture is having a measurable effect on the human brain.  We are not suggesting that it should be used during surgery, although it is in China, but just that it acts as a pain relief and should be taken seriously............Professor Tony Wildsmith, a pain relief expert at the University of Dundee, said he thought the findings were possible.    But he added: 'The thing about acupuncture is that it does not work on everyone. It is more likely to be effective if you believe it.' "

Bearing in mind that final comment in particular, it would seem fair comment that drawing unwarranted post-hoc conclusions is by no means the exclusive preserve of the 'alternative' medical community.


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## Lorz (3 Nov 2006)

I think they have a branch in Wilton too?  If so, I attended the one in Wilton a couple of times.  I have a problem with my back which I believe is due to poor posture, sitting at a desk all day and a long commute.  I'm not looking for a quick fix... I enjoy a deep tissue massage every few weeks and this is why I went to them.  I was seen by a chinese lady with no english - aside from hello & yes!  

They recommended 6 treatments at a cost of €50ea but if I paid in advance I would get the last treatment free.  So they worked out at €40ea.  

Each treatment consisted of acupuncture, massage, UV lamps, little devices attached to some needles giving a small shock and cupping.  TBH, from my experience, €40 for all this was great value.  Each session lasted about 1 hour.  A 1 hour massage in a beauty salon is usually ~€60!

They did try and sell a lot of products - like detox plans, massage oil, etc but I just said I wasn't interested.  Some of the men were a little pushy but I didn't buy anything.


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## beaky (3 Nov 2006)

Lorz said:


> I have a problem with my back which I believe is due to poor posture,...... €40 for all this was great value. Each session lasted about 1 hour. A 1 hour massage in a beauty salon is usually ~€60!
> .


 
Did the treatment improve your back?


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## Lorz (6 Nov 2006)

It relieved the pain temporarily but I wasn't looking for it to be fixed - I know it's not as simple as that.  I found the ~1hr long treatment relaxing and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I've spent plenty of money on physio-therapy which was much more brief (about 10mins) at a cost of ~€60.  They seemed quite happy to have me visit 2-3 times a week with no sign of completion!  When I eventually questioned them about making yet another apt. they couldn't give me a finaly no. of treatments required and I stopped.


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## monkeyboy (6 Nov 2006)

I went in with a shoulder complaint and was looking for a massage.
They immediately "diagnosed" the problem based on a quick chat that got into no relevant detail.
The Doctor suggested accupuncture & massage.
Now all I wanted was a nice relaxing 40 min massage but Im a sucker for new experiences, so I said Id go with the Acu as well.
Its a good money spinner for them rather than massage, cos they can filll you up with needles and leave you there for half an hour like that chap from hellraiser and work on someone else, where as a massage would occupy them for the whole time. 

Thats neither here nor there...
Any way.. while I was trying not to look at the pins in my arms I heard one of the sales girls trying to convince an elderly woman to buy the medicine as well as the oil. The old woman repeatedly said she could not afford them both but the sales girl was very pushy and insisted "doctor say you must do both". 
When it was my turn to get the sales pitch at the end I too was aggresively sold many products, undoubtedly at 900% over the price imported from China! 
Also they attempt to push you into booking treatemnts up front for discount etc...
I would just worry about their hardsell on vulnerable people with chronic problems who may be going to them as a last reosrt and desperation. Its all too pushy and does prey on the vulnerable I feel.


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## Lorz (7 Nov 2006)

TBH I think if people see this for what it is - ie relaxing treatment - rather than a cure, then you will get good value for money.  

The staff may call themselves Doctor but TBH I would question their qualifications.  The consultation is quick, no xray is carried out in fact I don't think they even touched my back (during the examination) - just asked questions!  They do try to sell products but just say no and stand your ground.  

IMO If you have a "chronic" problem then you should be consulting a fully qualified GP who will refer you to a specialist if required.


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## ClubMan (7 Nov 2006)

Lorz said:


> TBH I think if people see this for what it is - ie relaxing treatment - rather than a cure


The problem is when treatments like this are explicitly sold as remedies for various ailments with no actual scientific/clinical evidence to substantiate such claims.


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## liteweight (7 Nov 2006)

Monkeyboy, do you mean they left you alone with the needles in? AFAIK this is not on. Chinese medicine looks at the whole person and part of that philosophy is to stay with the person and reassure them....no?


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## tigra (7 Nov 2006)

Well I decided against going to Dr. China and went to Koru Chiropractic instead. Go a shock as the woman who was there was so young. She gave my back a good aul crack and I slept like a log last night. I will be going back to her for 4 weeks once or twice a week. I feel it's well worth the money and no pushy sales people to deal with.


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## monkeyboy (7 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> Monkeyboy, do you mean they left you alone with the needles in? AFAIK this is not on. Chinese medicine looks at the whole person and part of that philosophy is to stay with the person and reassure them....no?


 
Yup left there for what felt like years! 30 mins Id say. Wont go back!
The guy even missed putting in one needle to my wrist area which hit bone, that quite hurt!


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## Lorz (7 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> The problem is when treatments like this are explicitly sold as remedies for various ailments with no actual scientific/clinical evidence to substantiate such claims.


 
There are a lot of sales people and indeed "famous" people selling miracle products/services which will supposedly help you look 10 yrs younger, shed 20Kgs with no exercise and change in diet, make your €5k jump to €25k through pyramid schemes...... If people are stupid enough to believe these statements, they deserve all they get - IMO!

I have had acupuncture before with an Irish GP and I was also left alone with the needles in (as I was in Dr. China) so I don't believe you have to be accompanied.


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## liteweight (7 Nov 2006)

I have a friend who has been an accupuncturist for many years...trained in a Chinese hospital, studied further in the UK and later worked in a Canadian hospital. She assures me that part of her basic training was that the patient should never be left alone.


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## ClubMan (7 Nov 2006)

Lorz said:


> There are a lot of sales people and indeed "famous" people selling miracle products/services which will supposedly help you look 10 yrs younger, shed 20Kgs with no exercise and change in diet, make your €5k jump to €25k through pyramid schemes...... If people are stupid enough to believe these statements, they deserve all they get - IMO!


I disagree. People making silly purchasing decisions in the fact of the availability of clear and truthful information about products is one thing (and is their prerogative) but blatant misselling (e.g. claiming that certain treatments work when there is no objective scientific/clinical evidence to substantiate such claims) is another and should not be allowed.


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## Mr. Joe (24 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> I have a friend who has been an accupuncturist for many years...trained in a Chinese hospital, studied further in the UK and later worked in a Canadian hospital. She assures me that part of her basic training was that the patient should never be left alone.


 
I lived in china for a few years. In that time i got acupuncture treatment several times, incl. hospitals and private treatment.  
Thats exactly what they do. They just stick the needles in for about 20/30 mins. and leave you. Nobody ever stayed with me, they just leave you, pull the curtain and come back when the time is up.
I'm very skeptical about the acupuncturists here, although i will say i've never been.  (BTW the treatment i got in china was so cheap, you wouldn't believe)


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