# Irish attitudes to massage (& in particular an obsession with sex)



## Betsy Og (25 Mar 2008)

Recently bought one of those massage tables on internet (€200), did so because I would on occasion give herself a massage but in the absence of a table I'd end banjaxed after it (leaning at strange angles, sitting with ankles under me etc.  - I wouldnt be the most dexterous !!). 

Anyway, I mentioned this to a couple of lunch buddies (who know v. well, mixed gender bunch, always some craic) and of course I expected there'd be a bit of slagging.

What surprised me though was just how strong a connection they were making between massage and sex. If I said I'd bought an S&M dungeon (which I dont have ) they couldnt have been any more aghast.

Totally sleazy was their view. I made 2 points being (1) I dont know that sleaze is a concept that exists between husband & wife and (2) massage is a separate and distinct thing from sex. The most typical post massage reaction is sleep .... (sadly  ). But the point is that I wouldnt treat is  massage as a precursor for sex, and that to do so would pressurise the situation and potentially take from the effect of the massage itself.

So do Irish people generally have this view? If the same conversation took place in Sweden or somewhere else I'm sure there'd be some slagging but hardly the same obsession or correlation to sex.

Going back a bit here but ye might remember an episode of Glenroe with Stephen son was getting a massage from Bernie (the one with the funky hairdo's) who I think was either going out with him or married to him at the time. Poor Stephen thought he was after interrupting a brothel operating right in front of him, twasnt on a 'tall a 'tall. 

p.s. the table is fine job, getting some use from it, I'm sure it'll suffer from 9 day wonder syndrome but given a previous pattern of occasional massages I'm hopefully it wont just be a dust gatherer into the future.


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## truthseeker (25 Mar 2008)

yes its true - the Irish DO associate massage and sex for some reason.
Ive experienced similiar attitudes from people myself. You talked massage - they heard sex and immediately thought 'theres yer man bragging about his bedroom antics'. Bizarre really. Nothing wrong with a bit of massage - enjoy!


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## GeneralZod (25 Mar 2008)

They make the connection because for many years they were taught that all forms of enjoyment are sinful.


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## Caveat (25 Mar 2008)

Well the 'massage parlour' euphemism for brothels doesn't help.

I think generally the Irish have an immature, snickering attitude to sex anyway - so any chance of innuendo and they go for it. 

Touching, near nakedness, oils - the ingredients are all there really for the terminally prurient.

I sometimes make the association myself though - simply because when I give Ms Caveat a massage, I know there's a good chance of sex later on


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## DeeFox (25 Mar 2008)

A friend of mine is a trained masseuse and he put an ad in local paper saying that he was available to give a particular form of Chinese massage.  He was driven crazy by the number of people (all men!) phoning to ask if he "did extras".


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## truthseeker (25 Mar 2008)

DeeFox said:


> A friend of mine is a trained masseuse and he put an ad in local paper saying that he was available to give a particular form of Chinese massage. He was driven crazy by the number of people (all men!) phoning to ask if he "did extras".


 
That is weird DeeFox - a friend of mine mentioned to me that he used to use a particular masseuse in the past cos she 'finished him off at the end' - this was in a reputable massage place.
I always thought it was just him bragging - but now that Ive read your post - perhaps some DO offer 'extras'?


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## gipimann (25 Mar 2008)

I trained as a reflexologist, and my colleagues in the UK have had to reconsider how and where they advertise (esp. in yellow/golden pages), because of the strange requests they received!


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## truthseeker (25 Mar 2008)

gipimann said:


> I trained as a reflexologist, and my colleagues in the UK have had to reconsider how and where they advertise (esp. in yellow/golden pages), because of the strange requests they received!


 
well do tell us about a strange request!!!


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## Betsy Og (25 Mar 2008)

maybe they need to put a line at the bottom of their ads, "Genuine massage only, fully accredited, no funny business." 

Going on a book I got a few years back (Massage for Dummies) its seems the international norm is for nude recipients and for the massage to include the buttocks (the largest muscle in the body after all) - I think Ireland is definitely not ready for this!!!, and tbh neither am I but it just shows how far we have to progress along the scale.


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## Glenbhoy (25 Mar 2008)

truthseeker said:


> That is weird DeeFox - a friend of mine mentioned to me that he used to use a particular masseuse in the past cos she 'finished him off at the end' - this was in a reputable massage place.
> I always thought it was just him bragging - but now that Ive read your post - perhaps some DO offer 'extras'?


 
according to a recent newspaper article (I know, I know) many of the newer massage parlours in Dublin do indeed offer extras along the lines of that described above.
Curb your Enthusiasm has a good episode on it too - it may be more prevalent than (certainly I) we would have believed.


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## snuffle (25 Mar 2008)

I too would have been of the opinion that massage = just that, a massage, but seems there are a number of "parlours" that offer happy endings for the gents?  Probably what creates the "hur hur hur durty" reaction in some people, as that's what they are picturing in their mind's eye...

However a massage experience I had a few years back has put me totally off the idea of getting anyone other than my OH to administer a massage: I never really went in for all that, "better things to be doing with 70 odd quid" etc, but had back pain and thought I'd give a massage a shot. 

Went in to a reputable place, ordered some sort of thai massage, all was going grand until the woman/masseuse muttered something unintelligible, I assumed she said she was finished and responded "ok so, thanks" and started to sit up to get dressed -  she proceeded to grab my *ahem* bosoms and massage them furiously!  OK I know there are muscles in your chest too, but in women they are normally covered by a good deal of fatty tissue, which women normally don't like other people touching...

 I personally am not overly comfortable with another woman grabbing onto that area (especially when she yanked the towel I had on, off, before grabbing two fistfuls) and squeezing the bejaysus out of them. Lord only knows what she actually asked me, but I didn't hang round long enough to find out. Back pain completely forgotten as I lobbed her out of the way and hared out of the room, and got home to find I was in worse pain than before due to the sudden burst of "aaarghgetmethehelloutofhere".  What a waste of 70 quid. Should have sat at home and asked someone to creep me out for free.


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## Simeon (26 Mar 2008)

GeneralZod said:


> They make the connection because for many years they were taught that all forms of enjoyment are sinful.


Did you say 'enjoyment' General? I must be missing something. On the half a dozen occasions that I've had massage (injuries) I've finishd up really sore. Now, the injuries did get better ........ but I wonder (if I'd not been massaged) the time difference in the cure.


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## Lauren (26 Mar 2008)

I trained in massage when I lived in Oz (although I don't work in that area now at all) and I have a few points to make:

If you book in for massage in a 'parlour' then expect the dodgey sort.. 
What is the definition of a reputable massage place? If someone (male) says they were finished off there then massage is not the main product they sell!

I have found it next to impossible to get a good massage in Ireland..In fact I pretty much have given up! For me a good massage includes massaging my legs including my thighs and glutes. Having breasts massaged is not unusual in Asia, hence the experience described above. It is usually not sexual in any way, simply a massage that flows better in my opinion... And the therpist would usually ask if you were ok with this. 


Fair play to the original OP who bought the massage table....If you haven't already, would recommend doing a course to further your learning!


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## truthseeker (26 Mar 2008)

My definition of a reputable massage place (as mentioned in an earlier post) was not a massage parlour, it was actually a very well known leisure centre, a place where they have tennis courts, snooker tables, football pitches, golf, pitch and putt, badminton, squash, plus bars and food available. Its also a family location as there are a lot of kids activities organised there.


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## Lauren (26 Mar 2008)

truthseeker said:


> My definition of a reputable massage place (as mentioned in an earlier post) was not a massage parlour, it was actually a very well known leisure centre, a place where they have tennis courts, snooker tables, football pitches, golf, pitch and putt, badminton, squash, plus bars and food available. Its also a family location as there are a lot of kids activities organised there.


 
Wasn't suggesting that it was a massage parlour but its clearly not reputable given what was on offer eh? But I see your point...Maybe the guy was all talk??


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## truthseeker (26 Mar 2008)

Lauren said:


> Wasn't suggesting that it was a massage parlour but its clearly not reputable given what was on offer eh? But I see your point...Maybe the guy was all talk??


 
Wonder if the management were even aware of the 'extras' - then again - its entirely possible he was all talk i suppose!


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## hjrdee (26 Mar 2008)

Slightly off topic, but is there anywhere in Ireland where you can learn the basics of massage? Not a long course or anything, but somewhere where they may do a day course on giving a normal massage for back troubles, etc.

Thanks


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## Lauren (26 Mar 2008)

There are a number of organisations who provide massage training. A Google search should guide you in the right direction...You could try your local VEC or equiv. You generally need more than a days training to learn massage as you need an awareness of basic anatomy and physhiology, contraindications etc.


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## Betsy Og (27 Mar 2008)

As a starter you could try the book I've used - Massage for Dummies - its very good. The only thing its missing is a wall chart. Recenty patched a DIY chart together myself using photocopied snippets from the book (reminders of things to do when giving a massage). 

It gives plenty of background etc. etc. as well as showing what to do and not to do.


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## roland (30 Mar 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Recently bought one of those massage tables on internet (€200), did so because I would on occasion give herself a massage but in the absence of a table I'd end banjaxed after it (leaning at strange angles, sitting with ankles under me etc. - I wouldnt be the most dexterous !!). Anyway, I mentioned this to a couple of lunch buddies (who know v. well, mixed gender bunch, always some craic) and of course I expected there'd be a bit of slagging. What surprised me though was just how strong a connection they were making between massage and sex. If I said I'd bought an S&M dungeon (which I dont have ) they couldnt have been any more aghast.
> 
> Totally sleazy was their view. ....
> 
> So do Irish people generally have this view? ...


 
_In general_, Irish people have intimacy issues so discussion of such things (sex, massage, feelings etc.) is usually deflected by way of humour/slagging off, or only discussed on the fuel of alcohol.  We are still quite repressed by the teachings of the Catholic Church that has bound our thinking for generations.  The equation with sleaze is tied into the Church's irrational abhorrence of anyone actually enjoying intimate moments with one another.


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## Flax (30 Mar 2008)

I went for a massage a few weeks ago. The following day I work I told one of the lads about it. He seemed a bit surprised I did that.

Him: "Are you going to tell your girlfriend?"
Me: "She knows I got a massage"
Him: "She wasn't upset?!"
Me: "??"

He considered what I did to be the same as cheating.

The think the problem is that a lot of people in Ireland have serious issues when it comes to sex. For example, I did some web design work for an adult website. A few people couldn't grasp that adult website and paedophilia are not related. They were suspicous of me from then on. Sad.


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## truthseeker (31 Mar 2008)

Flax said:


> I went for a massage a few weeks ago. The following day I work I told one of the lads about it. He seemed a bit surprised I did that.
> 
> Him: "Are you going to tell your girlfriend?"
> Me: "She knows I got a massage"
> ...


 
Flax Ive experienced the same re massage = cheating, I had an ex who sheepishly told me he had booked a massage, I didnt react at all (seemed to me to be the same type of thing as telling me he was going to physio or something) - he couldnt believe I didnt react and way over reacted himself about me not caring and how come i wasnt annoyed etc..... i was totally bemused by it all til i spoke to a few friends and discovered this weird attitude to massage in this country.


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## ubiquitous (31 Mar 2008)

Flax said:


> I
> The think the problem is that a lot of people in Ireland have serious issues when it comes to sex. For example, I did some web design work for an adult website. A few people couldn't grasp that adult website and paedophilia are not related. They were suspicous of me from then on. Sad.



Some of them might have been more worried by the links between the "adult website" industry in this country and organised crime, even though they might have been too circumspect/polite to tell you.


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## truthseeker (31 Mar 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Some of them might have been more worried by the links between the "adult website" industry in this country and organised crime, even though they might have been too circumspect/polite to tell you.


 
Are there links between the adult website industry and organised crime? I didnt know that at all.


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## ubiquitous (31 Mar 2008)

Writers such as Paul Williams and Jim Cusack have repeatedly highlighted the links between certain gangland criminals and Irish porn and "escort" sites.


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## truthseeker (31 Mar 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Writers such as Paul Williams and Jim Cusack have repeatedly highlighted the links between certain gangland criminals and Irish porn and "escort" sites.


 
Thanks Ubiquitous, I was aware of the 'escort' aspect of it but not the porn industry.


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## Flax (31 Mar 2008)

I think it's only a problem for escorting websites. I don't think it's a problem for porn?!

Anyway, one of the people said to me "what about the children?" with a look of pure horror on her face. I think maybe the problem is the media often use the word porn to describe child porn/images of child abuse.

I still find it bizarre that their brain connects things like that to children, or things like a massage to sex. Very weird.


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## ubiquitous (31 Mar 2008)

Flax said:


> I think it's only a problem for escorting websites. I don't think it's a problem for porn?!



You may well be correct. However I would still say that there is a perception (correct or mistaken) that gangland figures are heavily involved in the Irish "adult" website industry. That may explain the  responses you received


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## truthseeker (31 Mar 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> You may well be correct. However I would still say that there is a perception (correct or mistaken) that gangland figures are heavily involved in the Irish "adult" website industry. That may explain the  responses you received


 
Yeah - you could well be right there.

People tend to make associations based on assumptions that its all much the same i.e., porn, escorts....


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