# Did we get ripped off by a tradesman???



## stcrbpd (12 Jul 2017)

Hi there

recently we got a tradesmen (company) in to quote for a job for a leak and without going into much detail the price of the quote was to include labour work, removing a bath to have a look at underneath to see if leak was coming out of under the bath, taking off tiles on the bathroom walls a few rows up above the bath, re-tiling of the walls were tiles were taken off, fixing the leak from the bath.  replacing boards under the bath as they would be rotting and green mould from leak. fixing the ceiling in the kitchen were the leak was coming out from the bathroom. open up the plasterboard on the ceiling in the kitchen and repair the plasterboard etc. 


the job was to take 2 to 3 days maximum. 


day one arrived and the workers arrived with their boss to show them the scope of the job. they went through it all together and what was entailed in the job. the tradesmen themselves got to work banging away to get the tiles off the tiled in bath and they said that the bath did not need to come out all as there was no leak under the bath and that all the tiles did not need to come out only a small border size amount around the bath about 1 metre and half. there was no damage to the floor boards so no need for the boards to be replaced. the only thing that needed to be done was the bath to the properly sealed around the edges to the wall and then re-tile a small border and then re tile the bath panel as the bath was tiled in. fix the ceiling in the kitchen. that all that was done. none of the pulling the bath out and fixing the plumbing was done as it didn't need to be done. 


with this information we went to the boss and asked because the work wasn't done or needed to be done would there be a reduction in the price as the quote was based on the biiger stuff to be done like removing the bath refitted it and tiling up the wall to about 3 tiles high. none of this was needed so it turned out to be a smaller job. 


we paid them the deposit on the 1st day. work was done within an hour, they went off and came back with materials about 3 hours later to finishing more of it. seal the bath and let it dry out before they could grout it. grouting was done on the second day around the bath with the small border tile that was only needed. and the tiling of the bath panel. again only a few hours if even 2 hours spent there. the tradesman was to meant to come back that evening to put the sealant then around the bath and secure the shower door back in place. he did not arrive that evening.  he was not available the next day to finish the job. i was under the assumption that the job would take 2 to 3 days max that the tradesman would be available on the 3rd day. this was a Friday and if the job was to be 2 to 3 days max you think they would have the tradesman available on the 3rd day. 


so we were left without a functioning bath as the sealant wasn't done and the shower door was hanging off the wall which eventually fell on me. i have tow young kids and was unable to give them baths as the shower door was in a dangerous position with it hanging off the wall as the part they took out of the tiles was not replaced where the shower door fixings went in. this was meant to be done when the tradesmen came back the evening of the 2nd day which he didn't. 


so the weekend has passed and the tradesman arrives on the Monday, only does the sealant job around the bath and goes within half an hour and said he hasn't the other tools with him to fix the other bits that were left as in there were tiles missing round the fixings of the shower door and a tile missing on the bath panel. so yet another day i had to get someone to be in the house to let them in. going into day 6 now and they come back and fix the few bits but still leave it quite sloppy looking. 


the things we are not happy with are that the job was to take 2 to 3 days max yet the tradesman was not available on the 3rd day - why say that and then leaving us for a whole weekend with young children without a secure bath (shower door hanging off) and the other bits that needed to be done. 


the tradesmen did not have to do a big job in the end as it was a smaller job you would expect the price of the job to be reduced. all that was taken off the price was the cost of the boards that were to go under the bath if they were rotting - which they weren't. i understand that if the labour was done with taking the bath out, doing the plumbing etc that this would warrant the original price quote but this work was NOT done and yet the amount was still the same. the lack of the availability of the tradesman over the initial 2 to 3 days max. i say in total he spent about 2.5 hours in the house over the 6 days doing the jobs where the original job would have taken a lot longer yet they weren't reducing the amount to be paid to them. as i said if the work was done on the removing of the bath etc tiling making the job warrant the quote price that would have been find but there was no budging on the price apart from the few euros taken off for the boards we didn't need. yet we didn't need the bath removed in the end and the extensive tiling they had quoted and the quote was not revised for this. 



i am just looking for general thoughts , advice from other tradesmen etc as to whether we were ripped off. it was near €1300 that was paid in total to these COWBOYS i am saying now as i have had enough of them and i don't like to brand people tradesmen cowboys but the majority of them that i have used in the past have been excellent. the whole process of this has just been one big headache for us all and its still going on as the work they left was still sloppy and i wasn't happy with it. 


we have gone to the boss of the tradesmen and he said there was no budging on the amount paid to them. but surely its only fair that if work isn't done you don't pay for it - work done you pay for it. i am baffled that they think this is ok to rip people off like this and be ok to take the money for a job they didn't do or return some of it even. its my mothers house so she had the financial dealings with the boss and she probably wasn't thinking straight till i had said they were meant to do the bits on the bath removing it etc and then she looked at it again and we both are feeling really annoyed now that these people did this. granted my mothers own naivety that she paid them in full without realising the extent of the work that wasn't done as per quoted originally. my mother is in retirement now so she doesn't need this stress. 


sorry, for the long message. but if anyone had any thoughts how to go forward on this or general advice. Thank you.


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## Setanta12 (12 Jul 2017)

stcrbpd said:


> but this work was NOT done and yet the amount was still the same.


Yes, you were had.  If you haven't already paid - then don't pay.


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## Easeler (12 Jul 2017)

Problem here is you have 3 lads to pay for 3 days 2 trades men and boss needs a cut out of it as well he probably priced it for that  3 very handy days of course, now the work carried out could be done easily by 2 lads for 1 day which 400 to 500 should cover it. But of course bob the builder is busy again and wouldn't be bothered with a job with that little out of it , so he just doubles the price and adds on the vat and there you have it 1300 euros


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## dub_nerd (12 Jul 2017)

Who initially said that there might be a leak under the bath -- you or the tradesman? If you were quoted to have a look under the bath to check for leaks, how did they then determine on day one that there was no leak without moving the bath? Were they able to remove a side panel or something? If the problem was simply grouting, why did they even need to remove tiles?

Yes, it definitely sounds like you were had, but you should have looked for a quote to do the investigation first before you agreed to pay for a problem you weren't sure you had. I feel your pain -- have been ripped off by cowboys on more than one occasion before, but you live and learn.


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## stcrbpd (12 Jul 2017)

Thank you all for your replies. My mother and myself do feel like idiots now. I am normally wise to these things but the boss man seemed so genuine I didn't think once they would be the worst tradesmen I have ever dealt with. 

Our bath is tiled in at the bottom so they had to smash the tiles to gain access to see under the bath that's when they saw the water was coming from the bath not been properly sealed to the wall in the first place so the water from showers and baths had been seeping down the floor boards and through whatever holes other could get through  into the ceiling below and over time made the plaster board in the kitchen ceiling dip in the middle of the patch and was green looking and water stained. 

We had the boss out to have a look at the job. We said we were not sure where the water was coming from,  he said it could be the waste trap under the bath leaking. Initially he had said to go through the insurance on it so my mother asked the insurance people and they sent their loss adjustor,  the boss sent the quote for the works that needed to be done and was rejected. Some technicality on water damage or something in the clauses. That quote was for near €3400. The boss came back with the 2nd quote of €1300 for near enough what the first quote for the insurance was. Only few things on it were taken off but near enough the same.  Alarm bells should have rung there and then.  Think we were blindsided that this leak was slowly getting worse and the fear of the ceiling caving in or bath falling through with kids in it that we wanted it fixed soon. We were under the assumption that they were adamant it was the waste pipe leaking. It wasn't in the end. 

Is there anyway of not necessarily reporting these guys to a building authority or ombudsmen of such there probably isn't one. I just want them and people to be aware of theseach guys. Our money us long gone. Lessons are learned big time. Can't believe we were sucked in. My mother is at her wits end with it in worry as she thought the job was a big job that would warrant the quote price.

Would any other builders revise their quotes to reflect the findings if they were in this situation? I would like to know?  Genuine ones with a heart probably or want to keep business I would like to think would.  I was thinking after it was found to be less of a job than what was quoted for that the job was a 1 day job and cost max €500 as one of the replies above suggested.

And also the fact for them to take days to get the bits done. It was over 6 days all this when it was meant to be 2 to 3 days.  Though they werent available on the 3rd day was an absolute joke leaving it the weekend the way they left it. The job when revised shoukd have only taken a day or day and half ay most. The tradesmen were running too and forth to other jobs they were saying. They didn't care.


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## jjm (13 Jul 2017)

You also need to take into account the fact the were going to rip off the insurance company off with your help, When the dropped the Quote from 3400 euro to 1300 euro for the same job you knew the were prepared to rip off the insurance company and you long term ,you should have realized it was not priced  on the amount of work involved  ,


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## elcato (13 Jul 2017)

In all fairness, while it cost an extra few hundred, you got the job done and dusted. It could have been a lot worse. Regarding the extra length in fixing, that is par for the course for builders. Chalk it down to experience and make it clear to the boss you will not be recommending him to anyone. If he was recommended to you then give feedback to them also. All we can do is hope they will eventually get the message.


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## Nordkapp (13 Jul 2017)

Par for the course if you paid a daily rate and not a fixed price for the job.


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## Leo (13 Jul 2017)

Nordkapp said:


> Par for the course if you paid a daily rate and not a fixed price for the job.



There is no mention of daily rate, and a fixed price was agreed. However it turns out some of the work specified wasn't required and the OP expected the price to be reduced accordingly.


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