# debt collector calling



## chiefwigam (10 Jul 2007)

hi guys 

i was a director in a small Limited company that has since been struck off due to the fact that we incurred some bad debts in our last year of trading this was 3 years ago, i walked away and personally paid out in excess of €30000 in debts, i am now in full time employment (paye), and have paid all my bills as i thought, i recieved a letter from a company stating i owed them €3500 and wanted it within 7 days, i havnt got that kind of money, so they passed the debt onto a collection agency. This guy phonned me aprox 2 weeks ago and demanded all moneys to be paid in full, i asked for copy of invoices that they have not furnished, now i'm not saying that they are or they are not owed the money, the truth is i honestly dont know if they have been paid or not and i have no way of finding out.

This guy is phonning and sending text messages on a regular basis and is threatning to call to my home and place of work.
can anyone please advise, 

As i understand that when you are owed money it is frustrating as i have been in that boat, i had 2 companys go bankrupt owing me in excess of €22500 which was unretrivable,
the truth of the matter is i cant afford the €3500 if indeed i do happen to owe it. 

can anyone please advise me 

Thank you

Chiefwigam


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Do you accept that you owe this money? If not then you need to challenge them on the basis of whatever refuting evidence you have. If you do then what options do you have for paying it - not necessarily within 7 days? Have you sought advice - e.g. from MABS or privately from a solicitor or other financial advisor?


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## CCOVICH (10 Jul 2007)

chiefwigam said:


> This guy is phonning and sending text messages on a regular basis and is threatning to call to my home and place of work.
> can anyone please advise,




Is this sort of behaviour in contravention of the Consumer Credit Act?


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## KalEl (10 Jul 2007)

There has to be more to this...directors can be held liable for the debts of a company if there's been fraudulent or reckless trading but they are held liable officially, not by some meathead enforcer. Is this a smaller creditor taking matters into their own hands? If so you need to call the guards. The €30K you paid out, I hope this was documented and not off your own bat? That you got credit notes for any agreed discounts, that you made offers to anyone you were settling with, that you didn't accept liability in writing?
Were you disqualified? Had you personally guarantees in place?


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## chiefwigam (10 Jul 2007)

Thanks for taking the time to reply Clubman,

I have no evidence but as far as i was aware the moneys were paid,
i was a director of the company and the money owed was for services carried out for the company i was a director of.
can they demand the money from me as the company no longer exists.

i remortgaged my home to pay off any outstanding debts that we had encured so my repayments are high enough, cant really afford to pay anything else


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## KalEl (10 Jul 2007)

chiefwigam said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply Clubman,
> 
> I have no evidence but as far as i was aware the moneys were paid,
> i was a director of the company and the money owed was for services carried out for the company i was a director of.
> ...


 
You need to speak to your solicitor but I don't think they can come after you in this fashion. This is not a debt collection agency in the normal sense of the word-this is a thug type operation which means calling the guards and/or sending a solicitors letter


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## chiefwigam (10 Jul 2007)

no personal guarentees, i did agree settlements, 
i dont like seeing anyone out of pocket, the 30k is all documented
i wasnt disqualified or anything like that. 
just got caught for money that was owed to us couldnt recoupe the losses , tried to trade out of it and as creditors knew we were in bother so all credit was cut . the only thing to do was cut the losses and get out..


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## KalEl (10 Jul 2007)

chiefwigam said:


> no personal guarentees, i did agree settlements,
> i dont like seeing anyone out of pocket, the 30k is all documented
> i wasnt disqualified or anything like that.
> just got caught for money that was owed to us couldnt recoupe the losses , tried to trade out of it and as creditors knew we were in bother so all credit was cut . the only thing to do was cut the losses and get out..


 
Sounds like you acted far more honourably than most...these guys you're worried about are chancing their arm. You owe them nothing-speak to your solicitor and/or the guards.


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## chiefwigam (10 Jul 2007)

thanks for all your advice everyone
all taken on board,
will speak to a a solicitor tomorrow, got the willys with the thoughts of some thug knocking on my door, as ive never been in this situation before


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Jul 2007)

CC asked:


> Is this sort of behaviour in contravention of the Consumer Credit Act?



Only if it was a credit institution to whom he owed money. 

You don't need to see a solcitor. Just write a registered letter to the creditor pointing out that you do not personally owe any money to the company. If they continue to pursue you, you will sue for harrassment. They will stop.

Brendan


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## chiefwigam (10 Jul 2007)

Thanks Brendan

I will so that

Thank you all for your assistance and advice, if anyone has any other advice i would be most appreciative


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## TomCruise (11 Jul 2007)

I used to work in a credit control type job. Sometimes I would (because my Boss requested me to) show up at peoples offices, ring them every day, send mildly threatening letters, etc.

I was always aware the only way I could get the money out of the debtor was by taking them to court. Basically I was hoping my heavy handed tactics would get them to pay.

We would only stop communicating with the debtor when we got solicitors letters, so I recommend you go down this route.

Best of luck!


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## ubiquitous (11 Jul 2007)

Hi Chiefwigam,

If your company was insolvent when struck-off by the CRO, then you may be exposed personally to potential ODCE proceedings if the company or any other alleged debtor reports the alleged debt to them. 

Do bear in mind its hard to tell whether this is the case from your posts above - that's why I use the word "If"

Again *if* this is the case, threatening legal action might not be the best way to resolve this problem.


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## KalEl (11 Jul 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Hi Chiefwigam,
> 
> If your company was insolvent when struck-off by the CRO, then you may be exposed personally to potential ODCE proceedings if the company or any other alleged debtor reports the alleged debt to them.
> 
> ...


 
It is pretty clear from the posts that this is not the case.


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## ubiquitous (11 Jul 2007)

KalEl said:


> It is pretty clear from the posts that this is not the case.



Where?


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## KalEl (11 Jul 2007)

chiefwigam said:


> no personal guarentees, i did agree settlements,
> i dont like seeing anyone out of pocket, the 30k is all documented
> i wasnt disqualified or anything like that.
> just got caught for money that was owed to us couldnt recoupe the losses , tried to trade out of it and as creditors knew we were in bother so all credit was cut . the only thing to do was cut the losses and get out..


 
Here


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## ubiquitous (11 Jul 2007)

I don't necessarily want to be picky, but the first line of the OP's initial post states: "i was a director in a small Limited company that has since been struck off due to the fact that we incurred some bad debts in our last year of trading"

Unfortunately in this sort of scenario, it sometimes happens that 1 or 2 creditors might not paid have been paid in full and might not have agreed to settlements. The OP implies this in saying "the truth is i honestly dont know if they have been paid or not". 

The paragraph you quote above does not rule out this possibility, (ie the OP did not say "i did agree settlements with all creditors") although like you I hope for the OP's sake that this is not the case. I really wonder about the certainty underlying some of your own advice above, eg "these guys you're worried about are chancing their arm. You owe them nothing"


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## KalEl (11 Jul 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> I don't necessarily want to be picky, but the first line of the OP's initial post states: "i was a director in a small Limited company that has since been struck off due to the fact that we incurred some bad debts in our last year of trading"
> 
> Unfortunately in this sort of scenario, it sometimes happens that 1 or 2 creditors might not paid have been paid in full and might not have agreed to settlements. The OP implies this in saying "the truth is i honestly dont know if they have been paid or not".
> 
> The paragraph you quote above does not rule out this possibility, (ie the OP did not say "i did agree settlements with all creditors") although like you I hope for the OP's sake that this is not the case. I certainly wonder about the certainty of some of your own advice above, eg "these guys you're worried about are chancing their arm. You owe them nothing"


 
I agree it is not entirely clear but it would seem this supplier is chancing their arm outside the normal procedures.


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## chiefwigam (12 Jul 2007)

Thanks guys

i did send out letters to al suppliers to inform them that we could not contimue trading, and that every effort would be made to re-emburse anyone out of pocket, and that means everyone, anyone owed money responded with immediate effect (as can be expected), and settlements were negociated. not always to everyones likeing but to be as fair as i could and with limited finance i did my best.
as this was 3 years ago i dont remember all the details of what payments were made and im having difficulty trying to dig up paperwork on ths particular company.
i did find out only today that they were in the process of moving premices at that time, so perhaps they didnt recieve the letter, but ireland is a small place and news like this doesnt remain a secret for any more than a few hours never mind a few years.
i still have the same pnone numbers and they never tried to contact me untill very recently, and to be honest it couldn't have come at a worse time.


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## bond-007 (12 Jul 2007)

I would be of the opinion that you acted correctly. 

From what I can see this guy has missed the call for creditors and now he has a case of the sour grapes and he is now trying to intimidate you into paying a debt which is not yours. 

Was there an official liquidation of the company? Was a receiver appointed?


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## TheJoeSoap (14 Jul 2007)

By the way, the ODCE is NOT known for its efficiency. If you are thinking about being restricted as a director because something went astray do NOT hold your breath. What I know of is to liquidate and set up a new company and trade through the new company. A whole lot of money ends up in the 'wrong' pocket literally daily - taxes deducted from employees, assets sold to the (wo)man or the new company for a Euro, blah blah. Some of the cheekier people liquidate the company and become a sole trader using the assets of the old company.


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## bond-007 (14 Jul 2007)

They are very slow to chase the directors of struck off companies, who are then free to set up more companies and the CRO can't do a thing about it.


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## Luckycharm (16 Jul 2007)

If you were a director of a ltd company that went into Liquidation and you did not sign any personal gaurantees then they cannot persue you personally for the money. Did you get a Liquidator in- have a creditors meeting etc? 
Regarding the Consumer credit act you can be contacted between 9am and 9pm mon- sat not on Sundays or bank holidays.
Does this debt owed for a product or a service?
There are different collection companies out there, some are complete chancers - only a couple of them are legit. THe one that is chasing you sounds like one that must only be paid on a % of what they collect. 
If you are genuine and hit hard times you will find most companies will bear with you. Once you are honest you will find most companies will work with you.
It is the complete chancers who continually lie etc that I have no sympathy for and would chase to nth degree.


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## bond-007 (16 Jul 2007)

> Regarding the Consumer credit act you can be contacted between 9am and 9pm mon- sat not on Sundays or bank holidays.


Most lenders ask that you sign a wavier so that they can contact you at anytime. I have heard of banks calling people at 2am to discuss arrears etc.


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## Luckycharm (16 Jul 2007)

bond-007 said:


> Most lenders ask that you sign a wavier so that they can contact you at anytime. I have heard of banks calling people at 2am to discuss arrears etc.


 
I would be very surprised at that why would a bank make you sign a waiver of your basic consumer rights. It is the Consumer credit act .
I seriously doubt a bank would ring someone at 2am to discuss arrears- for a start who would they employ to work those hours? Most people would have their phones off and I am sure you would have a legal case about basic human rights. 
Also reading between the lines of his predictiment I seriously doubt it is a bank he is having the problems with.


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## bond-007 (16 Jul 2007)

I remember that BOI credit agreements had that specific wavier on them. Things may have changed since. There was a case on Liveline of a person who owned a pub being rung at 2am about arrears. AFAIK the banks were using staff from their 24 hour stolen card line to make the calls during their slack periods.


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## chiefwigam (20 Jul 2007)

HI Guys

Thanks for all your posts, these people sound really dodgy,
havnt heard from them for a while, 
got a call from them today, and they informed me they were awaiting my payment in full, and they were calling monday, i told them i would be at work and didnt have that kind of money, and i wasnt liable to pay, so they said they were going to get rough,, i the=ink this is one for the boys in blue


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## bond-007 (21 Jul 2007)

Call in the Gardaí now.


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## solair (21 Jul 2007)

Ring your local garda station and ask to make an appointment to see someone who's used to dealing with this kind of thing over the weekend if he/she is available.

Head down and meet them in the local station and have a chat. Bringing any documentation, names, telephone numbers and details of when / who called you.

Also, keep an accurate diary of any contact that these guys make. i.e. time of contact, date of contact and details of what was said. It may be useful if you need to take it to court later on.


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## Luckycharm (23 Jul 2007)

chiefwigam said:


> HI Guys
> 
> Thanks for all your posts, these people sound really dodgy,
> havnt heard from them for a while,
> got a call from them today, and they informed me they were awaiting my payment in full, and they were calling monday, i told them i would be at work and didnt have that kind of money, and i wasnt liable to pay, so they said they were going to get rough,, i the=ink this is one for the boys in blue


 
Yep go to cops would be very interested though in finding out which collections company it was though if you could PM me.


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## chiefwigam (4 Oct 2007)

thanks for all your advise, went to the police and they advised me to contact solicitor, done that sent a letter to them and havnt heard a word in 4 weeks now. 
thanks for all your good advise


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