# Traditional Farmhouse Renovation Ideas



## Tetragon (1 Feb 2010)

I'm hoping to restore a 2 up/2 down traditional farmhouse to a comfortable standard in the hope of making it my permanent residence when I retire.

*The layout:*


 Downstairs - sitting room, kitchen and a bathroom (flat roofed extension). Sitting room has an open fireplace with a view of the world out of the chimney.
 Upstairs - a bit of a landing, press in the landing, 2 bedrooms (one with hot press in it).
  The house is habitable at the moment but not overly comfortable - no heating in place other than open fire. It has two chimney on the gable walls.

*Basic plan* .... knock bathroom, rebuild the area much larger to include the bathroom, a possible utility, a backdoor exit and perhaps allow for a recessed kitchen allowing the rest of the downstairs to be open plan.

*Upstairs* ... open to suggestions ... walls are partitions so a blank canvas. I would hope to have an ensuite/bathroom over the new downstairs extension. Perhaps two velux windows to rear (so as not to destroy the visual look of the property).

*Heating* - thinking of a backboiler/solid fuel stove powering the rads.

*Externally* ... reroofing, I don't know if the plaster can be hacked back to expose the stone but if possible I'd do it. Can a resin be pumped into the stone to aid insulation?

Are there any sites/fora out there that deal exclusively with trad farmhouse renovation? 

I'm not afraid of the work but I lack the ideas/inspiration.

Thanks.


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## Ceist Beag (2 Feb 2010)

Tetragon, would you not be better getting an architect involved? We did some similar work before and didn't get an architect but we're doing further work now and are definitely getting an architect this time around!


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## helllohello (2 Feb 2010)

Have you got the room to build a bedroom downstairs?  Or perhaps a big utility that could be used as a bedroom should the time come (in the distant future) that you might not be able to manage the stairs??


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## Tetragon (2 Feb 2010)

Cesit Beag ~ Re. the architect ... I want to explore my options first before I approach an architect because I don't want any preconceived ideas put into my head. I'm just looking to see what people have done with such limited space.

hellohello ~ a sofa bed would probably sort that problem when the time comes ... if I live that long. I realise that the current stairs is quite steep so that's a consideration I need to think about.

Thanks for the suggestions .... keep them coming!


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## onq (3 Feb 2010)

Tetragon,

Its a bit disheartening to see your reluctance about approaching an architect, but unfortunately this is a common enough perception.
For when you have gathered your thoughts and you feel ready to engage with a design professional, I'd like to offer a few words on architects.

Yes, there is the whole "give me a brief and let me do my thing" side to some architects and I've posed only the other day advising about the dangers of issuing too-restricitive a brief if you want the best design.
But in reality, architects don't all arrive with a Grand Design as a _fait accompli_ - they will spend a lot of time listening to their client, visiting the site and developing the brief before beginning to design.
Some of the programs on the T.V. at the moment are a bit misleading - "Drama is life with the boring bits taken out" as Hitchcock said - because you only see an edited version of this process.

If architects find their clients thoughts are too regimented they may try and stimulate them by exposing them to designs they know about and maybe arrange site visits for them.
Equally you should be aware that a picture is worth at thousand words to an architect and cuttings and photos as well as a list of properties you like will be very useful.

At some point architects may try provoking clients to think a bit more deeply about what they want, by producing an off-the-wall sketch design.
This isn't intended to intimidate the client or "blow them away with brilliance"  -  its just to shake out the cobwebs! 
Don't be afraid to say "no" if its too much,  because the design should be a reflection of your needs.
Equally, allow yourself become stimulated and judge your needs against this explosion of design.

Alternatively clients sometimes arrive with their thoughts unclear, partly because design is new territory for them.
If so, they should try to describe their needs generally, but highlighting any specific or unusual needs.

_Also:_
Being good with numbers and text doesn't mean you will excel at graphics and vice versa.
Don't be afraid to tell your architect that you cannot read plans if that is your position.
Not everyone can read two dimensional plans, elevations and sections.

3D views, Models, Perspectives and Setting Out on site with chalk dust and ridge poles are important methods of communication with the client and your architect should be a master of all of them.
In this country they spend a minimum of 5 years standing up in front of their Yearmasters and Studiomasters presenting their work, so they should have developed some skill at this stage.

Design is a chicken or egg process so be prepared to put the time in.
Don't be afraid to agree limits for costs for preliminary design work.
Consider seeking an architect who offers a free first consulation.

HTH

ONQ.

[broken link removed]


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## Tetragon (20 Feb 2010)

ONQ,

Apologies for missing your response to my post.
I'm not reluctant to approach an architect ... I just wanted to explore ideas myself first but perhaps you are right.

To achieve the best design in all respects I need to engage an architect now otherwise I'll be running like a headless chicken for years.

Thanks ONQ ... your post has encouraged me to look for an architect now.

Any recommendations?

Is there a listing of accredited architects out there?


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Feb 2010)

Check out the Heritage Council's  Traditional Farm Buildings Grants Scheme


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## onq (21 Feb 2010)

Tetragon said:


> ONQ,
> 
> Apologies for missing your response to my post.
> I'm not reluctant to approach an architect ... I just wanted to explore ideas myself first but perhaps you are right.
> ...



The RIAI publishes a list of Members in regions you may wish to consult.
Formal registration is now mandatory for those wishing to call themselves "architect".
As far as I am aware, it is not mandatory for people who wish to provide archtiectural services.
I'm not sure if the Registrar publishes a list architects who are registered but are not members of the RIAI.

According to the Building Control Act 2007, the only formally accredited architect available now is a Registered architect
In addition persons who have in the past provided services as architects preparing to register and those who have applied may also be considered.
These may fall into the following categories:


Persons mentioned in the Architect's Directive DIR 85/384/EEC and its successor DIR 2005/36/EC as having the right to practice architecture.
Graduates of the schools of architecture who have worked under a Member or Members of the Institute for more than 7 years.
Persons who have provided services commensurate with the profession of architect for more than 10 years.
Foreign Accredited Nationals working fir an MRIAI to gain experience of our regulations.
Architectural Technicians who may avail of the technical assessment route.
 May I suggest you read the four key posts in the _"Sites, planning, self-build and extensions"_ Forum for further information.
Be wary of retaining persons with no archtiectural qualifications, especially those "who can draw plans" for €200.
Such persons have no formal training in design, and have poor awareness of the planning/building regulations
Whoever you choose - assess their past work, form an opinion based on a meeting, talk to past clients.
Agree a fee for a defined range of services before engaging them and make them stick to it.

HTH

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent persons should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
My best advice is that you should retain a competent building professional to advise you on these matters.


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## RKQ (5 Mar 2010)

onq said:


> The RIAI publishes a list of Members in regions you may wish to consult.
> Formal registration is now mandatory for those wishing to call themselves "architect".
> .


 
Technical Assessment of Architects has not been finalised or set up yet.
Therefore many Architects are NOT on the current list. Please bear this in mind when consulting professionals.

As a rule of thumb, contact Architects / designers based on reputation, referral from friends / associates and local designs that you have seen and like.


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## NHG (28 Jun 2010)

As I assume the windows are small so you may not get alot of natural light during the day downstaris, it may be possible to incorporate a small sunroom into your build, (possible a lean-to type design in keeping with an old building) somewhere nice to sit and read a paper or book and have a cup of coffee.

If replacing the windows make sure that you have "A" rated glazing and sliding sash preferably to keep the character of the house.  Velux do nice conservation type windows which look like the old steel ones and are lovely on an old house.  

You mention that the stairs is steep, might even be worthwhile moving the stairs, once you have a good general idea of your requirements definately worth geting an architect who has undertaken some projects like this before and go and look at the end product. 

I don't know alot about insulation so I will leave the finer details to the experts, but I don't think that you can pump anything into the stone as it is a solid matter, but you can add insulated plasterslabs to the inside or if your stone is not good enough when you expose it (i.e leaking etc) you can add a layer of insulation to the outside before you replaster.

The stove with back boiler is a very good idea, make sure it is multifuel, I would also like to have the option of dual heating, as in oil as a backup, for the early mornings before you are up to light the stove or for days that you are away. Again, solar panels (if not to the front of the house).  If room is a problem put the washing machine and dryer out in the shed, and a clothes line for wet miserable days.  

Good luck with the build, we have completed 4no renovations to cottages and 3 No two storey's at this stage and just after geting planning permission for a small two storey extension to another (definately the last - all investments over the last 16years).


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## Nige (28 Jun 2010)

we are currently renovating a one and a half storey farmhouse.

You should consider the layout very carefully. I was automatically putting the kitchen into the old kitchen and having problems with the layout, when it finally occurred to me that I wasn't bound by the old layout. The kitchen and sitting rooms have swapped places and it works much better (or it should!).

Where are your stairs? You may not be bound by the building regulations if you are renovating, but it's a good idea to have a look at them and consider their purpose. New builds can't have stairs coming into a kitchen (as that's where most fires start) - if your stairs are in a kitchen, are you happy with that? Think hard about the fire escapes, etc.

Is the building damp? Is it worth taking up the floors to put down insulation and damp coursing? In dealing with the walls, remember that stone buildings need to "breathe" - should you be using lime render for repointing/plastering? 

Get your plumber and electrician in early to have a look at things. There may be issues in how and where the pipes/wires can run and you don't want to be too invested in a particular layout before you learn it has to change.

I second NHG's advice about having oil as a back up for the heating.

In our case (and we are still at the early stages) we were ploughing ahead with our plans when we heard an ad for Simon's Open Door fundraiser and through that had a one hour consultation with an architect for €50. Much to our relief, he thought our plans made sense, made some helpful suggestions and didn't try to push any additional services. A lot of the benefit for us came from the thought we put into what we were doing and what we wanted in advance of that meeting.


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## Superman (28 Jun 2010)

I'd advise getting an architect with conservation experience if possible. Cost might be an issue of course.  You could probably read up on the area yourself though.  
Basically, the issue with your old house is that the old fabric is likely to be breathable in nature - e.g. lime plasters and mortars. Replacing that with cement based mortars and plasters will cause problems.  The most important thing is that all elements of the construction must work to this breathable standard.
To give an example, say you want to insulate your ceiling.  You need to install a new breathable vapour control layer, with plasterboard with a breathable paint finish, a form of insulation which is compatible with this (e.g. rockwool, cellulose etc.), a breathable roofing membrane, and the counterbattens.  All these steps need to be complied with - or it will cause problems.  

I would advise (and possibly strongly advise) against removing the external render on your house to expose the stonework.  The render is there for a purpose - because the stone isn't of good enough quality to prevent rain from penetrating the fabric. You'll make the house colder and damper by doing this. 


Regarding insulation, it is best to use a breathable internal insulating slab - Klimaplatte do one. It is more expensive than normal insulated plasterboard.  
It is also worth getting a good BER report done on the existing house - and then with the BER assessor (and architect) work out how to most cheaply reduce your energy usage.  Your architect may be able to do this for you.

As for forums, I think http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk
is an excellent resource. Search for renovations and you'll find lots of information.


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## ClarencePig (28 Jun 2010)

We are in the final stages of farmhouse renovation!  And I am thinking about chimney draught excluders.... has anyone come across such a thing?


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