# Where to put savings now?



## pi123 (5 Aug 2011)

If you were to move savings outside Ireland, where do you put them?

An option that has been turned over is to open a Euro a/c Lloyds in UK and put savings there. Also to open a Swiss France and Sterling a/c in same bank and then means can be converted quickly if needs be. Don't want to convert from euro yet as currencies are so volatile at the moment.

Any advice much appreciated on this or if there is a better option, would love to hear it


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## farmerette (5 Aug 2011)

pi123 said:


> If you were to move savings outside Ireland, where do you put them?
> 
> An option that has been turned over is to open a Euro a/c Lloyds in UK and put savings there. Also to open a Swiss France and Sterling a/c in same bank and then means can be converted quickly if needs be. Don't want to convert from euro yet as currencies are so volatile at the moment.
> 
> Any advice much appreciated on this or if there is a better option, would love to hear it


 
the swiss franc is so strong at the moment , you would need something like 20% more euro to buy it today than last december , you could find yourself in a situation where even you bought in today and were secure in the knowledge that your money wouldnt evaporate , were the euro to stabalise in the coming months , you would find youself trying to buy back into euro with a weakened franc 

personally i think gold is ( probabley )  the best option right now


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## horusd (5 Aug 2011)

Nowhere is risk free. Not even Germany or Switzerland. If you are concerned about banks,(as you seem to be) then seek accounts in the most highly rated banks like Rabo or similar. Read thro AAM on opening accounts abroad, there are large posts on these, particularly in Germany, Switzerland etc. I would avoid investing in a single asset like gold or anything else. You may get the best protection by diversifying into various accounts in Euroland with AAA+ rated banks.


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## georged3rd (5 Aug 2011)

farmerette said:


> personally i think gold is ( probabley )  the best option right now



Surely gold is even more over valued lately given the mass flock to invest in it as a haven for risk reduction (and investment) and that in itself makes it even more risky when the "bubble" does eventually burst, no? Or am I looking at it wrongly? 

I realise this post would be more at home in the Investments thread on AAM but in the context of Deposits its hard to ignore gold (particularly given gold's media coverage over recent years) as an alternative to having conventional cash deposits. 

Thoughts welcome as an expansion on the OP's question.


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## horusd (5 Aug 2011)

georged3rd said:


> Surely gold is even more over valued lately given the mass flock to invest in it as a haven for risk reduction (and investment) and that in itself makes it even more risky when the "bubble" does eventually burst, no? Or am I looking at it wrongly?
> 
> *I realise this post would be more at home in the Investments thread on AAM but in the context of Deposits its hard to ignore gold (particularly given gold's media coverage over recent years) as an alternative to having conventional cash deposits*.
> 
> Thoughts welcome as an expansion on the OP's question.


 
I wouldn't put a cent into gold now. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. The flight to safety will be fickle and short-lived IF (and it's a big if) the US and Europe solve this problem.


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## pi123 (5 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the replies, not really a gold investment type, rather keep the cash. Had savings in rabo but worry about Euro defaulting and we go back to punt, the Euro in rabo would become punt (or similar) and be devalued. 

If you hold savings in UK in Euro account and we went back to punt, or if two tier Euro idea came into effect, would it be better to have savings in UK rather than in Ireland? It's alot of if's I know but trying to keep savings in best place possible
Thanks again


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## serotoninsid (5 Aug 2011)

pi123 said:


> If you hold savings in UK in Euro account and we went back to punt, or if two tier Euro idea came into effect, would it be better to have savings in UK rather than in Ireland?


If I could just add a further twist to this question...
Many people here have been advocating retaining deposits in euro in Germany.  However, some are now suggesting that in the event of a euro break-up, the Germans would want to devalue so that they remain competitive (being that they are the worlds second largest exporter).

Very confusing as regards working out what's the best option to take......


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## bryanod (5 Aug 2011)

georged3rd said:


> Surely gold is even more over valued lately given the mass flock to invest in it as a haven for risk reduction (and investment)


 
What rush? it actually sold off alongside everything else yesterday since everyone is in risk-on/risk-off in tandem.


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## callybags (5 Aug 2011)

bryanod said:


> What rush? it actually sold off alongside everything else yesterday since everyone is in risk-on/risk-off in tandem.


 
This makes no sense.

For every ounce of gold that is "sold off", the same ounce is bought.


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## kdoc (5 Aug 2011)

A lot of people on this forum have been like the proverbial blue-arsed flies, trying to put their deposits abroad, where they imagine they're safe. As recent times have shown, we are all sailing in the same global economic boat.


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## bryanod (5 Aug 2011)

callybags said:


> This makes no sense.
> 
> For every ounce of gold that is "sold off", the same ounce is bought.


 
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sell-off.asp


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## callybags (5 Aug 2011)

So what is the difference between a buying frenzy and a selling frenzy?

For every buyer there is a seller, otherwise the transaction does not take place and it makes no difference.


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## serotoninsid (5 Aug 2011)

kdoc said:


> A lot of people on this forum have been like the proverbial blue-arsed flies, trying to put their deposits abroad, where they imagine they're safe.


Of course they are - they want to protect their savings.  What would you suggest they do - sit back and watch it unfold?

Presumably they will be "safer" in one place than another and at less risk of erosion in one place than another.  Figuring out where is best doesn't seem to be so straightforward though.


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## shnaek (5 Aug 2011)

My advice - blow all your savings. Party large! Then come back and tell the government you're broke. They'll give you a house and an income.


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## farmerette (5 Aug 2011)

georged3rd said:


> Surely gold is even more over valued lately given the mass flock to invest in it as a haven for risk reduction (and investment) and that in itself makes it even more risky when the "bubble" does eventually burst, no? Or am I looking at it wrongly?
> 
> I realise this post would be more at home in the Investments thread on AAM but in the context of Deposits its hard to ignore gold (particularly given gold's media coverage over recent years) as an alternative to having conventional cash deposits.
> 
> Thoughts welcome as an expansion on the OP's question.


 

gold rose four fold before the media gave it a seconds notice , gold has only entered the public consciousness very recently , the recent stock market bull run was a sham , backed by nothing except QE by the goverment , america is entering rescession again , money will enter defensive assetts like gold + europe will have no choice but to print thier way out of debt so that will inevitabley lead to a weaker euro which is redicolously over valued anyway , all signs suggest gold will at least hold its own over the next year at least , a sell off of 100 euro an ounce here or there is nothing to worry about , if it was where it is now in a years time , id still be happy


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## horusd (5 Aug 2011)

farmerette said:


> gold rose four fold before the media gave it a seconds notice , gold has only entered the public consciousness very recently , the recent stock market bull run was a sham , backed by nothing except QE by the goverment , america is entering rescession again , money will enter defensive assetts like gold + europe will have no choice but to print thier way out of debt so that will inevitabley lead to a weaker euro which is redicolously over valued anyway , all signs suggest gold will at least hold its own over the next year at least , a sell off of 100 euro an ounce here or there is nothing to worry about , if it was where it is now in a years time , id still be happy


 

All of this is highly speculative. It's also wrong to say that the stock market run was solely caused by QE or that it must follow that the ECB will engage in QE or that the Euro is neccessarily overvalued. 

Gold investment is highly speculative, and not for the faint-hearted. A resolution of the current crisis would leave a lot of damage to the Gold price in it's wake. In short, gold should not be a sole option for any saavy and conservative investor, or any investor in my opinion.


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## farmerette (5 Aug 2011)

horusd said:


> All of this is highly speculative. It's also wrong to say that the stock market run was solely caused by QE or that it must follow that the ECB will engage in QE or that the Euro is neccessarily overvalued.
> 
> Gold investment is highly speculative, and not for the faint-hearted. A resolution of the current crisis would leave a lot of damage to the Gold price in it's wake. In short, gold should not be a sole option for any saavy and conservative investor, or any investor in my opinion.


 
bar putting money in a swiss franc account , buying german bonds or sticking it under the matress , how does one conservativley invest when the worlds fianancial and economic system is on the brink


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## kdoc (5 Aug 2011)

serotoninsid said:


> Of course they are - they want to protect their savings.  What would you suggest they do - sit back and watch it unfold?
> 
> Presumably they will be "safer" in one place than another and at less risk of erosion in one place than another.  Figuring out where is best doesn't seem to be so straightforward though.



Serotonin, I mentioned a long time ago that some  prudent diversification was sensible. For the record, mine is with different institutions within this country. It seems to me that putting it abroad adds another element of risk. Is anywhere in the Eurozone any safer that somewhere else in the Eurozone? If not, and you are concerned about erosion, take note of the lousy interest rates being offered abroad.


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## serotoninsid (5 Aug 2011)

@kdoc:  I'd be quite happy to place it here if it wasn't for the possibility of euro breakup - and the devaluation that would follow.  Presumably, you feel this won't happen?


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## Gekko (5 Aug 2011)

Bunds are the best game in town in my view.

Filling your boots with Sterling, gold, Swiss francs etc now is probably the equivalent of arriving late to the party.


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## pudds (5 Aug 2011)

Some external expert said on the radio today that the euro won't be let go under as China needs an alternative to the dollar. Sounds reasonable logic but is it!


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## kdoc (6 Aug 2011)

serotoninsid said:


> @kdoc:  I'd be quite happy to place it here if it wasn't for the possibility of euro breakup - and the devaluation that would follow.  Presumably, you feel this won't happen?



serotninsid, Nobody can be quite sure, but I think it's unlikely. In any event, where are you going to put your money? The global situation is changing rapidly. It looks like our star is beginning to rise a little according to this article in today's Independent: 

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-boost-for-ireland-amid-market-chaos-2841500.html


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## serotoninsid (6 Aug 2011)

kdoc said:


> serotninsid, Nobody can be quite sure, but I think it's unlikely. In any event, where are you going to put your money?


I honestly don't know!  I opened up a UB a/c in Newry many months ago.  At the time, they told me that they couldn't open a euro account (something that I now know is untrue as other AAM'ers have successfully done this).  So I just left that account lie - as i'm not going to go opening up a sterling account.
I was then following the thread started by folks looking to move funds to Germany.  To that end, I recently got the forms through from DKB Bank - but again, I have not acted on them.

A lot of dithering on my part.  This used to be such an easy decision before.  I would go from 1 year fixed to 1 year fixed - and at the time of the switch, would just go to AAM key post on deposits, look at who was offering the best rate - and that was it....simples.


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## Chris (7 Aug 2011)

serotoninsid said:


> If I could just add a further twist to this question...
> Many people here have been advocating retaining deposits in euro in Germany.  However, some are now suggesting that in the event of a euro break-up, the Germans would want to devalue so that they remain competitive (being that they are the worlds second largest exporter).


The German central bank always retained a strong currency policy and it always looked at price inflation as its sole source for decisions on monetary policy. It will not suddenly turn into a monetary interventionist if the DM is reintroduced.



farmerette said:


> gold rose four fold before the media gave it a seconds notice , gold has only entered the public consciousness very recently , the recent stock market bull run was a sham , backed by nothing except QE by the goverment , america is entering rescession again , money will enter defensive assetts like gold + europe will have no choice but to print thier way out of debt so that will inevitabley lead to a weaker euro which is redicolously over valued anyway , all signs suggest gold will at least hold its own over the next year at least , a sell off of 100 euro an ounce here or there is nothing to worry about , if it was where it is now in a years time , id still be happy


I fully agree, the events of the last week and especially the US downgrade by S&P will give the Fed exactly what it needs to introduce QE3 and 4. The ECB has already embarked on qualitative easing by allowing junk bonds to be deposited as collateral, and the latest spout of  solution for Greece is going to be funded through quantitate easing as well. 



horusd said:


> All of this is highly speculative. It's also wrong to say that the stock market run was solely caused by QE or that it must follow that the ECB will engage in QE or that the Euro is neccessarily overvalued.


I disagree, as soon as QE1 ended equity and commodity prices started to decline and QE2 was introduced. This ended in June, and suddenly equity and commodity prices are plunging again. The problems that caused the financial crisis, i.e. too much debt, are still there so there is no reason why equities should have been rising other than monetary inflation.
All the extra debt that will be created in order to pay for the increase in the EFSF will be bought by banks and deposited with the ECB which will create new money, which is quantitative easing. Keep an eye on the ECBs monetary base figures over the next couple of months and you will see that after a few months of remaining stable this year, the figure will be rising again.



horusd said:


> Gold investment is highly speculative, and not for the faint-hearted. A resolution of the current crisis would leave a lot of damage to the Gold price in it's wake. In short, gold should not be a sole option for any saavy and conservative investor, or any investor in my opinion.


Gold is volatile, and volatility does not suit everyone, bu gold is not a speculative investment in the long run. The only way that the US and EU can solve the debt crisis is by defaulting of printing more money. Neither of which will have a negative impact on gold.


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## moneyworrier (2 Nov 2011)

Does anyone know what will happen to our savings in the event of the euro being scrapped? I have worked my butt off all my life and have saved 100K which was supposed to help as a pension and to put kids through college and would really rather not loose it. Any help would be appreciated as nobody seems to know


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## moneyworrier (2 Nov 2011)

*saving in a euro collapse*

Does anyone know what will happen to our savings in the event of the euro being scrapped? I have worked my butt off all my life and have saved 100K which was supposed to help as a pension and to put kids through college and would really rather not loose it. Any help would be appreciated as nobody seems to know


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## wbbs (2 Nov 2011)

I think you have answered your own question, nobody seems to know : (


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## horusd (3 Nov 2011)

I was listening to Jill Kirby on Newstalk yesterday. It would be funny as long as she isn't right in her analysis. Invest in a safe currency, but no currency is safe. Invest in a safe bank, but  no banks are safe. Talk to your family and work together to solve each other's  financial problems. 

The only thing she didn't mention (but implied) was to stock up on canned food, buy a shotgun and build a bunker in the backyard.


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## bryanod (3 Nov 2011)

Pension and College expenses would be in whatever currency we would ned up with, euro, puntnua, flagrons, etc so would your 100k, problem solved.


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## cavanMan (3 Nov 2011)

what the worse that can happen we go back to the punt and its devalued by 25% so what life will go on and at least we will be in control of our own economic policies....plenty of irish and non irish banks offering good interests rates, might as well take advantage of that.


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## Gervan (3 Nov 2011)

Moneyworrier, you will feel better if you do Something. If you imagine the Irish  currency will be devalued to a third of what it is worth now, why not put a third out of the country, or into a foreign currency here. That would balance off any loss on the value of your remaining savings.
There is no right answer, but you will feel you have made provision, and sleep better.
Nobody can say what is going to happen, or which currencies are safe.

Nationwide International in Isle of Man have a euro tracker account, paying 2.35%. I know that's lower than interest here; you have to decide if lower interest is worth the greater feeling of security. Your deposit is well under the guarantee amount. They also have a sterling account, if you don't trust the euro, which pays higher interest. It would be slightly harder to open as you have to exchange currencies. There is a forex risk, but you may feel it's worth the gamble.
Permanent tsb have an Australian dollar savings account paying 5% on amounts over $50,000 with 7 days notice. The bank will of course make some money on the currency exchange, but you may think it's worth it.

You may decide after research that you should just leave your money where it is, but at least it is a reasoned decision, and your mind should be easier. We can only plan for what we can imagine; we can't predict.


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## Godfather (3 Nov 2011)

I remember reading an article about going back to old currencies overnight... So for that reason I stick with good old Deutsche Mark...


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## Slim (3 Nov 2011)

Godfather said:


> I remember reading an article about going back to old currencies overnight... So for that reason I stick with good old Deutsche Mark...


 
Do you mean a deposit in Germany located bank in euro?


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