# Fingers' pension pot



## Brendan Burgess (4 Sep 2015)

*The pension pot of €27m only cost the Irish Nationwide €4m*
Fingleton took over the management of his own pension fund from the professional managers in 1991 and turned €4m into €27m over 16 years.
[BB: If there was €4m in the fund in 1991 and he got a return of 14% a year, it would amount to €27m over 16 years]

Tom Lyons and Richard Curran gave the following account in their book "Fingers"


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Sep 2015)

The Property Pin has a list of his assets here: 

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33616&p=444410

He had omitted to disclose his pension pot which "eclipsed" the other assets, so presumably it was still worth more than €10m 

Brendan


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## Duke of Marmalade (4 Sep 2015)

Please, please can someone confirm that his pension Fingers were truly burnt


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## Redone (4 Sep 2015)

If he had such a large portion of his investments in bank shares soon after 2007 he'd be lucky to have any fingers left.

He could easily have less than the original €4m. Poor Didums.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Sep 2015)

INBS stopped lending in December 2007 because the board reckoned that there was a 20% fall due in the price of property. 

So, maybe Fingers cut his exposure to bank shares? 

In that course case in November 2010, where he had €13m of other assets, "Mr Justice Peter Kelly said the pension “eclipsed” all Mr Fingleton’s other assets and it seemed “extraordinary” he had omitted his biggest asset in his hand-written statement of affairs."

So it seems that in November 2010, he had in excess of €13m in his pension fund. 

In November 2010, the ISEQ overall index was at 2,756. Today it is 6,344. So if he switched out of bank shares into general equities, he would have doubled his money from whatever amount "eclipsed" €13m. 

Brendan


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## so-crates (4 Sep 2015)

Where's my flaming torch and pitchfork... I think I need to get a whetstone to the tines!


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## Duke of Marmalade (4 Sep 2015)

This bank tribunal is really getting me down.  Everybody comes out of it much better than they went in - no wonder Drummer was so keen to make some kind of appearance.  The only exception was McWilliams who was so smug and arrogant that the chairman's closing remarks "Do you ever admit to getting things wrong?" left poor David somewhat nonplussed.


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## Gerry Canning (7 Sep 2015)

The Tribunal is a train ,starting nowhere , going nowhere, those on board delude themselves in thinking they are doing the state {some service}.

Those getting on at some stations ,get a pleasant drive to the next station, they get off and continue as before eg AIB,Boi.Mr Fingleton.

Anyone any good at blowing up tracks ?


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## Steven Barrett (7 Sep 2015)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Please, please can someone confirm that his pension Fingers were truly burnt



If it was a DB scheme, he would have purchased an annuity with that fund. The ARF option isn't open to transfer values from DB schemes.

There are ways around this though, something he probably utilised.


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Sep 2015)

Gerry Canning said:


> Anyone any good at blowing up tracks ?


Grizzly


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## The Edge (29 Sep 2015)

Brendan,

Are you not making a lot of assumptions in post 5? For example, if the pension was not included in the assets and liabilities statement provided to Justice Kelly, how would he have known how much was in it, he may just have assumed that it was still worth the figure that had previously been publicly quoted in media articles. I thought I had read an article at some point which stated that not only was Fingleton's pension heavily over-invested in bank shares, it was particularly over-invested in those banks which were heavily exposed to property, including Irish banks like Anglo and AIB, and UK banks like RBS, etc. I will try and find the article.

Edit: This article states the pension would have been worth less than €4m by April 2009:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...eme-was-wound-up-over-crash-fears-140235.html

It's interesting that Fingleton, in his remarks to the inquiry, didn't make any comment as to the pension's current value, but that could be personal pride/hubris that is stopping him from publicly admitting he made bad investment decisions over the long term (and, granted, I'm speculating here.)


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## The Edge (29 Sep 2015)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> This bank tribunal is really getting me down.  Everybody comes out of it much better than they went in - no wonder Drummer was so keen to make some kind of appearance.  The only exception was McWilliams who was so smug and arrogant that the chairman's closing remarks "Do you ever admit to getting things wrong?" left poor David somewhat nonplussed.



Not to be a pedant, but it's an inquiry, not a tribunal.

Everyone seems to forget that the electorate's vote in 2011 against the government's proposals to allow the Oireachtas to conduct broad-ranging inquiries, necessitated that the inquiry be conducted in the manner that it has. If it were otherwise, you can rest assured that most of the well-heeled bankers (and even the not so well-heeled ones) would have refused to appear and would have taken various high court challenges and legal reviews.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Sep 2015)

The Edge said:


> Are you not making a lot of assumptions in post 5? For example, if the pension was not included in the assets and liabilities statement provided to Justice Kelly, how would he have known how much was in it, he may just have assumed that it was still worth the figure that had previously been publicly quoted in media articles.



They are not really assumptions. They are "if...thens". I suppose I did assume that Kelly knew the actual size of the pot,but he may not have.  We really have no idea how much the pot is worth today. It could be all gone, it could be more than €27m.


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## The Edge (27 Dec 2016)

Interesting to see the Central Bank inquiry into failed building society INBS going ahead but apparently is being challenged by two former directors. 

Any updates on the inquiries into the other five failed Irish banks?


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## jpd (28 Dec 2016)

Please put in order - stable, doors, bolted, horses

Shouldn't be too difficult


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