# Revenue to change married women's (Level "W" series) PPSNs?



## ajapale (29 Jun 2006)

> who will have to change every married woman's PPS no. over the coming months!


This was brought up in another thread Revenue Self Service.

Is there truth to this rumour? What impact will it have on the the individuals involved and the payroll systems which pay their wages?


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## liteweight (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				ajapale said:
			
		

> This was brought up in another thread Revenue Self Service.
> 
> Is there truth to this rumour? What impact will it have on the the individuals involved and the payroll systems which pay their wages?



This is not a rumour, got it from the horse's mouth yesterday. Was also given my new PPS no. and received written verification this morning. Very quick service.

Assume the only impact will be that employers will have to re enter PPS nos. for married women. I also wondered what impact this would have on my SSIA because when I joined I had to give my PPS no. and when I withdraw money next year this no. is no longer valid.


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## Kiddo (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

Is this for the old style PPs no.s with a W at the end ie basically the husbands PPS no with a W added?


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## ajapale (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

Yes, in the past married women had an extra character added to their husband's pps number. The extra letter is a "W" and 99% of the time its the last character but Ive seen some where it was the second last character.

I wonder are revenue just issuing numbers to women on the old series on request or is it a blanket operation for all women on the old series?

aj


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## liteweight (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				ajapale said:
			
		

> Yes, in the past married women had an extra character added to their husband's pps number. The extra letter is a "W" and 99% of the time its the last character but Ive seen some where it was the second last character.
> 
> I wonder are revenue just issuing numbers to women on the old series on request or is it a blanket operation for all women on the old series?
> 
> aj



It appears that it is a blanket operation, or so I was told by Social Welfare. They are willing to give new PPS nos. to women who ring and request one but the phone lines are very busy!

The Revenues new computer system will not accept the 'W' apparently.


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## MILLIONERKA (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

Also Revenue changes PPS when husband dies ...


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## woods (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

Everybody is issued with a number at birth and then it was changed (for women) when you got married.
Are they giving the old number back to you or is it a completly new number.


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## Sunnyboy (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

I suppose that it could just be a sign of the changing times that we are living in, more's the pity.

Suppose a man marries, then divorces, and remarries again, then wife No 1 would have the same RSI No as wife no 2.

Where some of these foreign religions and cultures allow multiple marriages at the same time, the whole Irish system would collapse, if all the spouses of the male, kept his number with a W added on. At least if a person has the same number from cradle to grave, the State will always be able to keep track of them and their various relationships.


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## liteweight (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				woods said:
			
		

> Everybody is issued with a number at birth and then it was changed (for women) when you got married.
> Are they giving the old number back to you or is it a completly new number.



New number. I imagine it'd be a logistical nightmare to go back to old one.


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## liteweight (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				Sunnyboy said:
			
		

> I suppose that it could just be a sign of the changing times that we are living in, more's the pity.
> 
> Suppose a man marries, then divorces, and remarries again, then wife No 1 would have the same RSI No as wife no 2.
> 
> Where some of these foreign religions and cultures allow multiple marriages at the same time, the whole Irish system would collapse, if all the spouses of the male, kept his number with a W added on. At least if a person has the same number from cradle to grave, the State will always be able to keep track of them and their various relationships.



Think I prefer this explanation to 'the new computer system won't accept the W'!

No matter what a given culture dictates, Irish law only allows one Wife!!


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## Berni (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				woods said:
			
		

> Everybody is issued with a number at birth and then it was changed (for women) when you got married.
> Are they giving the old number back to you or is it a completly new number.


Giving a number at birth has only been in effect since 1971, so most of the affected women wouldn't have an old number to go back to.


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## z107 (29 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*

For payroll companies the ramifications could be quite severe. PSS number is used to consolidate P35s. Now it is possible that people can have two separate PPS numbers per tax year.

They are changing a fundamental rule without consulting payroll companies. Expect chaos.


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's ("W" series) PPSNs?*

From DSFA

Client Identity Services - PPS Number Allocation Procedures




> *4.4*
> If you are a married women you may have what is termed a "Level W" number which is your husband's number with the letter W added indicating "wife". These numbers are no longer allocated but existing numbers are still valid for Social Welfare Purposes.
> 
> *It is now the Department's policy is to replace all Level W numbers with new or already existing pre-marriage numbers. *
> ...


 
see also from DSFA:
Personal Public Service Number Code of Practice

and from wikiPedia:

PPS Revenue and Social insurance Number




> In a few cases the PPS No is in the format 1234567AW, where the final digit is always "W", this is termed a "Level W" number. The latter code was used for women - "W" from "wife" - who married and automatically adopted the same number as their husband. This practice stopped in 1991 chiefly due to equal rights concerns.
> 
> The present policy is that these Level W numbers are eliminated as when bearer comes in contact with social welfare or tax offices and are replaced by the original number, alternatively a new number is issued when none is traceable.


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## porterbray (30 Jun 2006)

*Re: Revenue to change married women's PPS's??*



			
				umop3p!sdn said:
			
		

> For payroll companies the ramifications could be quite severe. PSS number is used to consolidate P35s. Now it is possible that people can have two separate PPS numbers per tax year.
> 
> They are changing a fundamental rule without consulting payroll companies. Expect chaos.


 
This has been happening for several years in both Revenue and Social Welfare. And over those years probably thousands of women have used more than one PPS number in any given year, without the 'chaos' predicted. It is surely common sense in 2006 that everyone has their own number, and is not tied to their spouse's number.


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## liteweight (30 Jun 2006)

Hi Ajapale

The last time I looked for my PPS no. was when I took out an SSIA. Was still issued with 'W' no. but your quote seems to state that this practice was ended in 1991.

Was not issued with old no. this time either but new one does end in surname initial. Don't know if this is coincidence. Single letter now following PPSN, perhaps what Rev. meant when they said 'the computer won't take the W' is that it looked for single letter after no. rather than double.

Was definitely told that they are changing married woman's nos. over coming months. Perhaps they're doing this slowly e.g. when people ring in or as stated when there's a need to contact tax office. Presumably those not changed over time will receive a letter.


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2006)

Hi LW,

The thread "does a pps number have any meaning?" deals with the validation check digit in PPS numbers. The check digit is generated by a formula and has no meaning beyond that. It is not the surname initial.

It is possible to have a pps number ending in a single letter "W" and are _eight_ digits long.

The practice of adding a W to the hubands number appears to have ended in 1991. These numbers have two letters and are _nine_ characters long.  But many women continued to use this pps number.



> Perhaps they're doing this slowly e.g. when people ring in or as stated when there's a need to contact tax office.


Yes I think they are doing it on an as "required basis". I dont imagine all those older widows (on pension) out there on the W series are going to be reissued with new numbers.

aj


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## liteweight (30 Jun 2006)

Might not be making myself clear. When I took out my SSIA I used my husband's PPSN with a W tagged onto end. Provider of SSIA needed a letter from Social Welfare stating my PPSN. This was provided promptly and ended in PW. SSIA was taken out in 2002 so double letter no. was still being applied then.

When SSIA matures, I will now have a different PPSN. Don't know how tax office will deal with this. Perhaps it makes no difference...any thoughts?


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## ajapale (30 Jun 2006)

Hi LW,

Do you mean that they issued you with a brand new "W level" number in 2002? I think it more likely that they looked up the "W level" number originally issued prior to '91 and confirmed this number to you in 2002. However, nothing would suprise me and you may be correct.

aj


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## liteweight (30 Jun 2006)

Your're right. Still my husband's number with a W put on at end. Nothing would surprise me either. I've spent the last week ringing the tax office/social welfare with minimum 30 minute wait although announcement on phone said wait should be 9 minutes! Gets very frustrating when you have a number of calls to make to them.

Had to laugh though...one public body (can't remember which one now, made so many calls) played the song 'I know I stand in line until you think you have the time to spend an evening with me..Frank Sinatra I think.


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