# PTSB tracker?



## fitz2017 (13 Nov 2017)

Hi 

Have a query as to whether anyone else is in the same position as ourselves? 

We bought in 2007, PTSB loan offer issued in January 2007 and drew the mortgage down in late March 2007, fixed for two years- loan offer stated that general mortgage loan approval condition 5 "conditions relating to fixed rate loans" applies in this case. 

General Condition 5.4 states that PTSB and the applicant each have the option at the end of each fixed period to convert to a variable rate loan agreement. Nothing specific to tracker rate in the loan offer but ESIS states that the loan was default to tracker at the expiry of the fixed period. 

We received an options letter coming toward the end of the fixed rate period but do not have a copy of the options letter and do not know what was on it- wrote a separate letter to the options letter stating we wanted the SVR and that is what we went to. 

Having carried out a data access request we found out that our account actually defaulted to a tracker mortgage at the end of the two year fixed period for 5 days until it was changed over onto the SVR following our letter to them- tracker rate was 2.25% above ECB. PTSB say they cannot locate the options letter but we did get something from them asking what rate to choose but dont know what it said. I do not know whether PTSB advised us in the option letter we were to default to a tracker rate of 2.25% above ECB or any tracker rate. So it appears our account was set up to default to a tracker at the end of the fixed rate period. 

PTSB in correspondence to us have advised it was their policy in 2009 to default fixed rates to tracker mortgages and that they would have sent us correspondence advising we were to default to tracker at the end of the fixed rate in the options letter but they cannot locate this. They advised it was their policy at that time to default fixed rates to tracker at the end of the fixed rate period in instances where the tracker rate was either less than or equal to the SVR. But the SVR that we went to was 4.15% at the end of March 2009, which was lower than tracker we defaulted to, 2.25% plus ECB (at the time 2%), total 4.25%. 

Not getting anywhere PTSB at the minute and dont know whether it is worthwhile submitting claim to ombudsman as contract does not specifically state we were entitled to a tracker but we did default to a tracker, if only for a few days, unbeknownst to ourselves. Just wondering if anyone has a similar experience as ourselves. As part of the data access request we got an internal file review form with three separate reviewers stating our account may be an impacted account due to fact it defaulted to tracker and also ESIS stated we would go to a tracker at the expiry of the two years but so far we have got no joy from them as to whether they hold us out as impacted or not. We started looking into this is we were moving house last year and requested title deeds from PTSB and there was a long delay in getting them. When I rang they stated they were reviewing our account prior to releasing the deeds as it may have been impacted. Did the data access request at that point and no further along the road now really. We were in negative equity when we moved and took some of this with us onto the new property and our only option for a mortgage was PTSB due to this. 

Thanks 
Fitz


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## Runningman (15 Nov 2017)

Hi Fitz2017, 

Your story sounds very similar to mine, I also defaulted onto a tracker in 2007 after a 1 year fixed for a short period (11  days). It is not in our contract either. The options letter that I signed only shows fixed rates on it. PTSB state that there was another options letter showing the tracker rate but they cannot find this. 
I complained about this April 2016 and am still none the wiser if my account is impacted or not. Rang them yesterday and was told it's still open and I should hear from them within the next 10 days, which is contrary to media reports of ptsb having concluded their tracker review.


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## fitz2017 (15 Nov 2017)

Thanks for the reply Runningman. 

Did you do a data access request? I did and they still cannot locate the options letter they sent us in Feb/March 2009 which I find a little odd. I cannot remember what was on the options letter when they sent it so cannot say whether we were ever informed we would default onto a tracker at the end of the fixed term and what the tracker rate would be in that scenario. But I know from the data access request that we did default onto a tracker rate of 2.25% plus ECB. 

Frustrating to have to wait so long to hear whether we are impacted or not by the review. Have you taken your case any further than PTSB at the minute?


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## Runningman (15 Nov 2017)

Hi Fitz2017, 

This has been ongoing since 2012, when I first complained to ptsb, which went on to the FSO who found in favour of ptsb in Dec 2012. I believe that all old FSO complaints were to be reopened as part of the central bank review, as it's a wider scope. I contacted ptsb April 2016 and they are investigating it since. 

Got to see all my documents through the FSO who did a data request for the investigation. They could not find the options letter then. 

My main complaint then was simply why did we default onto a tracker after our first fixed rate?

 Reviewing all the documents I've realised that the tracker rate was not on the options letter. And therefore I was unaware of what the rate was and made a choice not knowing the tracker rate. Which can't be fair in my eyes. 

Regards


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## fitz2017 (15 Nov 2017)

Hi Runningman

If you dont mind me asking, on what grounds did FSO find in favour of PTSB? What explanation did PTSB give for not having the options letter they allege they sent setting out the tracker rate? And what was PTSB response to why you mortgage defaulted to a tracker after the first fixed rate? 

They have told me that it was their policy to default fixed rate customers to tracker at the end of their fixed rate term at the time our fixed rate finished, where the tracker was equal to or less than the SVR. This was not the case for us, the tracker we defaulted to was higher than the SVR we were offered through the options letter. 

Most unfair that you were unaware of the tracker rate when you got the options letter you replied to, how could you have known what you were to default to if this was not set out in the options letter? I think we are in a similar situation there, cannot say we were advised we would default to a tracker at the end of the fixed rate and what that tracker rate would be and PTSB unable to provide evidence they did advise us, they're just saying  that they would have advised us of this. 

Thanks


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## Runningman (15 Nov 2017)

Hi Fitz

The FSO grounds in 2012 simply was I did not have a tracker mortgage on my original contract, and therefore had no right to one. However at this stage I never complained about the lack of the tracker rate in the options letter, I only copped this after the FSO decision. Hence my further complaint in April 2016.

Ptsb have stated that the tracker rate would have been on the original options letter, which they nor I have a copy of. 

The reason for default to tracker was same as yours, it's what they did at this time. Which I think is unfair especially when it's the first options letter I receive. Why default my loan onto tracker after the first fixed rate if it's not in my contract?  A little ambiguous I think. Or at least  advise me it may not default to a tracker again.

Thanks


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## Thirsty (15 Nov 2017)

Similar options letter from PTSB, but in my case I rang and tracker offered when I asked.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/refund-from-ptsb.204915/

Don't let it go, they were more than smart in not including something that was in fact available to you.


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## Runningman (15 Nov 2017)

Aineyoung has a similar thread and has successfully got her tracker back https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ptsb-compensation.205221/unread


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## fitz2017 (15 Nov 2017)

Thanks for the replies, they give me hope that all is not lost in our case. 

I dont understand why they would default our loan onto a tracker rate in March 2009 when they had finished offering them to new customers if they were not obliged to do so. I dont buy that it was their policy, particularly where they have specifically told me it was their policy to do this where the tracker was better or equal to SVR available, which was not the case for us. How could you make an informed decision when you havent been given all the information? Never telling us we were set up to default to a tracker rate or putting this on an options letter is sharp practice.


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## fitz2017 (15 Nov 2017)

this thread is interesting too. Seems PTSB issued letter to all brokers saying all existing fixed rates would roll onto trackers at the expiry of their fixed rate. There would appear to have been no SVR back then, they were either fixed or trackers. We got our mortgage through a broker.


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## Lightening (15 Nov 2017)

KBC  (all fixed will roll to tracker thread) it's it's an almost identical situation even the roll off rate of 1.25 is the same.

They Pulled a fast one!! The options letter should not have been sent! KBC did not send an options letter but didn't roll everyone to the tracker (Variable ) and rolled to their SVR 

Now how come two banks did exactly the same thing! Dah!


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## fitz2017 (15 Nov 2017)

A coincidence surely... 

The more you look into this the worse it gets.


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## PFS7979 (15 Nov 2017)

Lightening...

Based on the special condition 9 ( governing interest rate)  the options letter should never have issued. SIMPLE AS THAT.  Its shocking that PTSB have not acknowledged these as impacted accounts.. time for Central Bank to do their work


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## Lightening (15 Nov 2017)

Pfs7979

Totally agree that's what I said!! They should never have issued that letter and rolled those accounts to trackers


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## PFS7979 (15 Nov 2017)

Have you spelt this out in writing to Ptsb?

I have spelt it out clearly to ptsb ( who are failing to acknowledge my account is impacted).

I have also written to FSO and Central Bank Tracker Review Team.. also written to local political representative who is relatively high profile on the Tracker issues..

We need to keep pressure and spotlight on this.


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## Lightening (15 Nov 2017)

PFS7979 said:


> Have you spelt this out in writing to Ptsb?
> 
> I have spelt it out clearly to ptsb ( who are failing to acknowledge my account is impacted).
> 
> ...



Hi PFS7979

Im not with Ptsb but I certainly agree these accounts are impacted no doubt about that!


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## PFS7979 (15 Nov 2017)

Assumed the thread was on PTSB mortgages only.. sorry bout that.. but its a systematic thing across all the banks


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## Lightening (16 Nov 2017)

Exactly! I know there were posts in the KBC thread by PTSB customers regarding the fixed rates rolling to trackers as the circumstances are similar. My point is KBC rectified this for some customers in 2010 but not others (rolled to trackers from fixed) If they rectify it in one bank the others should do the same.


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## fitz2017 (17 Nov 2017)

Rang PTSB today to follow up on my most recent letters to them, they advise our account is not being treated as impacted as the options letter they sent on would have advised us we were defaulting to a tracker and they had a letter from me saying that we wanted to go onto SVR as opposed to the other rates offered. Asked them again to send me on a copy of the options letter but the lady I spoke to said she couldnt see it on her screen but will request for it to be pulled, explained I had carried out a data access request previously and was advised that it wasnt there and have been asking for it for nearly a year and a half. She did say the account on initial set up was to go to a tracker rate and that was how it was set up and there may have been something in my contract entitling to a tracker as it said I was to go to a variable rate, this was a first from them, they have always taken the line that I had no contractual right to a tracker as my contract was silent as to it, just mentioned variable rate and not specifically a tracker. Think I might right to the central bank tracker review to see if they can ensure the account it looked at fully.


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## Runningman (17 Nov 2017)

Hi Fitz2017, 

That's very disappointing, however you should not give up hope. Did they say they would send out details in writing? If so this will explain it better and show your option of going through the FSO, which I think you should do. There is a different FSO now who seems to be more in tune with the consumer rather than the financial institution. 

How long ago did you write the complaint? 
 My complaint goes back to April 2016 and is still not resolved according to PTSB! How can it take over 20 months to resolve?? 

Regards


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## fitz2017 (17 Nov 2017)

The initial data access request went in June 2016 and the complaint then at the end of July 2016 after we got our file showing we defaulted to tracker.

Will the FSO do anything while the central bank review is ongoing?

20 months and still ongoing is ridiculous. How can they not have your complaint resolved within 20 months? Appears they like to try wear people down over time...


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## Runningman (17 Nov 2017)

_Hi Fitz,

Will the FSO do anything while the central bank review is ongoing?_

PTSB have claimed that they are finished their review and have deemed you not impacted, therefore your only free way to have the complaint investigated further is through the FSO. 
I believe that they will investigate it if the central bank agree that the ptsb review has been finalised. 

Hope this helps, it's what I plan if they tell me I'm not impacted. 

Thanks


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## PFS7979 (17 Nov 2017)

Folks,

I have corresponded with FSO on a similar issue I have with PTSB mishandling of my account. The FSO is saying they are waiting for the Central Bank Assurance process to be completed before proceeding on the individual cases.

My take on this is that Central Bank will uncover 000's more impacted accounts at PTSB


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## Stitcher (17 Nov 2017)

I agree with PFS,
 it is frustrating that Ptsb continue to ignore 000's of complaints against them, unlike BOI who have now accepted this and are engaging with customers.  I don't doubt that CB will find against them in Dec or March, regarding these cases that Ptsb consider to be "not Impacted" . However I think we will still have a major battle with ptsb to get proper redress and Compensation. It may well have to go to court. Unfortunately. But the publicity and numbers are growing.......


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## Stitcher (17 Nov 2017)

My philosophy now is to trust in the central bank review, they have made a lot happen for 20,000 + customers who were moved off Tracker mortgages  by devious means by banks. Otherwise,   my sanity goes out the window! The consent stress of it would drive you crazy!


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## Lightening (18 Nov 2017)

Some banks digging their heels in but I expect the Ombudsman will have a different opinion. Keep up the fight!


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## fitz2017 (20 Dec 2017)

Disappointing, if not surprising, statement from PTSB today following the central bank update today. The struggle goes on.


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