# Found THE house - how do I make offer?



## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

Hi,

Advice please!

I am so excited. After searching for months in our target area, we found the perfect house. It just came on the market a few days ago and 20k below our max budget for mortgage. It requires a bit of work, but nothing urgent. It is exactly what we always wanted but thought we couldn't afford.

We are very anxious to secure this property. We are FTB with a mortgage approval in place. 

We just viewed today. I need to know how to make an offer and for how much. A friend suggested offering the full asking price but I thought that might seem a bit keen and the vendors might want to push it up then. Then again, we are attractive buyers so I don't know what to do.

Any advice you could possibly give would be so great as this really is the house of our dreams and the thought of not getting it would be really devastating.

Oh, we also have put a refundable deposit on a lovely new build house, but it has none of the character and charm of this other house.

Thanks!!!


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## LDFerguson (14 May 2007)

Given that it's a buyers' market out there at the moment in most areas, I'd be inclined to put in an offer _at least_ 10% below the asking price, making sure that the estate agent conveys to the vendor that you're first time buyers and mortgage approved, thus ensuring a quick sale.  Don't give the estate agent any indication that you're prepared or able to bid any higher.


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## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

Unfortunately, the area we are buying in, and the price bracket we are in, property is still moving pretty steady. Houses of this ilk don't come up often in our price range - believe me we have searched with intent to buy for 5 months!

Would you recommend putting an "expiry date" on our offer in order to secure things?


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

I would be reluctant to offer the asking price - TBH and have purchased 2 houses in my time. 

As LDFergason has suggested go 10% below the asking price, the worst the vendo can say is no. and then up the price if you want.


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## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

Ok, thanks pinkyBear.

Any other tips to make ourselves more attractive as buyers? What do the RE agents look for, other than lots of money? We can move very quickly as we already have letter of offer. Is there anything else peole want?


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

> We can move very quickly as we already have letter of offer.


 
And that is what makes you a very attractive customer - you are not involved in a chain. 
If you have a letter from the bank detailing your morgage acceptance that will also be beneficial.

Also if the house goes into a bidding war fare - dont panic, if you are asked to raise your offer - do so €500's - cheeky I know but it worked for us in the first house

The second think is, if you put in an offer say 20k below the asking price (and note it's a buyers market) and the buyer says he will take the house off the market if you give him/her €5k more - do so if you love the house.

Be wary in this market, if he/she says €5k above the asking price - as there is a glut of houses out there.

Also go back for a second viewing, and note the folowing - is the attick insulated (if not you reduce the price by €1k) if it is poor quality - reduce it by €500 as you'll have to top it up.

Note the windows do they need to be replaced? Is there any black mould on the windows, or around them, is the paint cracked - signs of poor ventilation - is the windows will need to be replaced. If so this will also justify your reduction of the price - pretend to the EA that you know what you're looking for.....

Note the radiators, and the light switches, if these look old, you'll hvae to replace them, and all this will help in bargining down the price....

Above are the big things, ignore the paint work as this is an inexpensive job.

Find out also how long has the house been on the market for? Are the owners looking for a quick sale, have they purchased and need to close quickley.....

Good luck,
May the force be with you


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## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

WOW! Thanks for all the advice PinkyBear! It is all invaluable as we haven't a rashers when it comes to buying houses.

It has only been on the market 4 days but the vendors have built a house nearby so must be anxious to sell. They are a retired couple.

Plan on putting offer in 10k below asking. 

Should I mention when I am making the offer that we have a deposit on another house? It is a refundable deposit on a new build. And any idea how long it takes to get a deposit refunded? We will need it for this other house it all goes well. I would like to think I have endless supplies of deposits, but the most we could come up with on short notice (if we don't get the other deposit back quick) is about 3k.


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## pinkyBear (14 May 2007)

> so must be anxious to sell


 - dont assume! 

I would go lower than €10k to be honest, as if a bidding war comes in to play you could easity be priced out. I have seen forst offers €40 k below and this was during the height of it!!!!



> Should I mention when I am making the offer that we have a deposit on another house?


 I wouldn't they might not take you seriously then...

Your cutting it tight - can take a few months to get it back...


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## Firefly (14 May 2007)

LadyJane said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Any advice you could possibly give would be so great as this really is the house of our dreams and the thought of not getting it would be really devastating.
> Thanks!!!


 
Please don't take this the wrong way but you need to calm down - otherwise the estate agent will know how much you want this. My advice is to make an offer of about 15k under the asking. Tell the EA that you have approval and you are not selling another property. Then wait....do NOT call the EA again for an update...they will contact you. Sit tight....you have 35k to play with....


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## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

Ok I won't mention the other house. I only thought it might make us look like we could walk at any time and go with the other house if you know what I mean. 

Also promise to go 10% below asking. What can it hurt?

Shoot - I hope it doesn't take that long to get the deposit back. But I wouldn't be surprised. 

What a rollercoaster, hey?


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## LadyJane (14 May 2007)

Excellent advice Firefly. And I don't take offense, I know that appearances of aloofness are critical. I haven't said anything to the EA yet, just that we are interested. I am keeping all my silly enthusiasm for this forum! But will def. keep it in check when neg. sale.

Will definately not offer FAP and will go at 15 or so below. That was my initial instinct until a friend said to offer full price or they would think I was a messer. But then again, what does she know?   There is a lot of conflicting anecdotal advice you get when you are a FTB.


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## gallon (16 May 2007)

Definitely offer 10% below, nothing is moving everyone is waiting until a few weeks.

However to justify this you may want to take a second viewing maybe a different time, this time be more thorough.

Basically you are looking for stuff to justify your estimation, e.g. influence the owners in thinking ok its going to cost a few quid to get this house sorted.

So


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## Ravima (16 May 2007)

I differ and not just to be awkward.

If this is the house that you really want, then why not offer the asking price, but leave on the table for 24 hours only. If not acepted, then formally withdraw the offer in writing, with copy letter of withdrawal to vendor!

Be firm.

If they do not come back within the 24 hrs, then have your solicitor, whose identity presumably the auctioneer/vendodoes not know, make an offer below the asking price.

That way, you have two bites at the cherry.


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## Gav2 (17 May 2007)

Ravima said:


> I differ and not just to be awkward.
> 
> If this is the house that you really want, then why not offer the asking price, but leave on the table for 24 hours only. If not acepted, then formally withdraw the offer in writing, with copy letter of withdrawal to vendor!
> 
> ...


 
Sorry the market is slow at the moment you wont loose the property by offering below the asking price, its up to the EA to bring you up. Dont mention the deposit on the other property as EA may think ur undecided(messer) as soon as sale agreed and contracts signed request you deposit back, it may take a while.


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## LadyJane (17 May 2007)

Thanks for all the advice. I have made an offer 10% below the asking price. The EA said we were in the running that that offer whatever that means. I don't think there are any other offers on yet so perhaps it is close to what the vendor was looking for. Just waiting to hear back. We can always up the offer if needed. We didn't go full asking price yet to give us room to work if needed. I did mention that we were interested in another property and  consequently under time constraints but that this one is our first choice. 

I guess you just have to try your best and see what happens. 

I do really appreciate all the input. Thanks again.


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## HMC (17 May 2007)

LadyJane,
I moved into my new house 2 days ago.  I offered mid-March 22k below asking price and got it for 17k under in the end.  I wasn't a FTB like you but had sold my former home and had finance in place and could move quickly (always a plus).
I got a very good tip on this board which you might consider : make your offer first by phone then follow up with a fax a day or two later setting a deadline for reply (say 10 days hence).  My verbal offer wasn't acknowledged at all but when the fax was fired off, it was all systems go.
Play it cool(ish!).  Remember you're the one with the money to buy.
Best of luck!


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## pinkie123 (17 May 2007)

can I ask you how much % lower than the asking price was the 17k


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## Gav2 (17 May 2007)

Good Luck!!


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## HMC (18 May 2007)

pinkie123 said:


> can I ask you how much % lower than the asking price was the 17k


 
I'm rubbish at %s!  Asking price 317, first offer 295, bought at 300.


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## Firefly (18 May 2007)

LadyJane, best of luck...I remember my first place and was dead excited. Am sale agreed myself on something at the mo and can understand how you're feeling. Bo cool with the EA...tell them you're ready to go - a quicker sale means they get their commission quicker.


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## pinkie123 (18 May 2007)

HMC said:


> I'm rubbish at %s! Asking price 317, first offer 295, bought at 300.


thats about 5.35% discount. ok, thanks!


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## LadyJane (18 May 2007)

Ok here is the update. BTW, thanks for all the good wishes!

Spoke to the EA today and he said that the offer of 20k below asking was not tempting and that the vendor wants to "let it run" and see what happens. (The property only on the books 1 week). The EA said it wasn't close to the asking price. I know the vendor is in no hurry to sell, and perhaps this will go for a couple of months, in which we would probably be priced out of the market and lose the other (new build) house we have already paid the refundable deposit on.

I know I sound like a panicy first time buyer, but believe me lads, I have reasearched the market and I know that properties of this ilk do not come on very often, if ever, in my price bracket. I feel time will only work AGAINST me and that I have to get in early if we are in for a chance at all.

A couple of colleagues suggested that we ring the vendor directly and put our cards on the table. Not to tell them our budget, but to try and ascertain if there is a price he would sell at. I do believe that in regard to the exceptional circustances in this case, this might not be a bad idea. Our first communication with the estate agent was to ask the vendor if he had a figure in mind in which he would take the property off the market. He said no, that he would consider any reasonable offer. But an estate agent always wants the profit, whereas I believe it might be a more emotional decision for the vendor as they live at the end of the garden and this is their former home.

God, really, this is so difficult. You just don't know what is the right thing to do, it is such a game. 

Advice? Suggestions? Please...


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## pinkie123 (18 May 2007)

I think go for it and offer as near as you are willing to pay for the house. If you love it you can be sure someone else will fall in love with it as well - and you could regret the cheeky offer. some may say its a buyers market but if seller in no hurry then it is in their control.


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## LDFerguson (18 May 2007)

Don't rush back immediately with a counter-offer as that suggests that you didn't have to approach your lender to increase your mortgage and also that you didn't have to think long and hard about increasing your offer.  Both of these tell the EA that you haven't reached your absolute upper limit.


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## Liam_Dub (18 May 2007)

I really think this is a no brainer. If you want the house why play games just give them what you think the house is worth if that is the asking price well give it and as you keep saying a house like this doesn't come up in your bracket. This means you'll get the house you want be happy live happily ever after. 

People keep saying its a buyer market but if you go for a viewing there is plenty of foot traffic at the viewing.
This means IMHO that either the neighbours are in for a noise or a lot of people are waiting till after the election to see whats happening with the stamp duty. 
And if as you say these people are in no hurry to sell they can afford to wait to get what they want for the house if you offer what you think is fair price the house is yours.


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## extopia (18 May 2007)

Sit tight. There are no other offers yet. And possibly won't be, ever.

I've bought three properties in the last 10 years. On each occasion the vendor settled on a price about 5-7% below the asking. The market was rising in each case, although the properties had all been on the market for some time. (I tend to have unconventional tastes, I suppose.)

In today's market, though, I'd be much more aggressive. Nothing is moving out there.


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## huskerdu (19 May 2007)

Hi LadyJane, 
I know this is hard, but rushing back with another offer will not work. 
The vendor and the EA will think - Great, they love the house and are willing to offer the asking price, lets see who else loves it in the next 2 weeks.
If you were selling a house, you would not take the first offer, unless you were in a big hurry, which the vendors are not. 
If they have decided to leave the house on the market to gauge reaction for 3 weeks, your offer will not stop them and making that offer will leave
all your cards on the table. 

I know how nerve-wracking it is and I know how easy it is to give advice and how hard it is to wait in your circumstances.

good luck


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## LivLand (19 May 2007)

I'm in a similar position. I have seen a house I would really like, but they say there is an offer in at the asking price. All I can do is sit back and wait. As the other posters state diving in so fast can only be a bad thing. Holding off is running the risk that the place will be sold before you get to place your own offer. But I would have thought in a slow market this is unlikely. On the upside you could be saving yourself thosands of euro.


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## LadyJane (19 May 2007)

Hi!

A lot of conflicting advice, and I can see the wisdom in all of it. Thanks for the posts and the words of support.

We are going back for a second viewing of the house today. It is unconventional as the EA won't be there, and the vendor is going to show us around again. It will be a good chance to let them know how much we love the house and possibly gauge his reaction to an offer at the asking price. I don't know what will be said, to be honest, but am just going to go out there and see how it goes.

Wish us luck and will post again when we have more news. 

LJ


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## extopia (19 May 2007)

Again, why show your hand to the vendor by letting them know how much you love the house? I'd say it's better to be fairly noncommital and let them think your current offer is about as high as you're prepared to go. If they think for a minute you're prepared to offer more they'll probably hold out for more.


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## Ravima (19 May 2007)

I lost my first house by going in under the  asking price and watching underbidders slowly increasing till it was well above asking price.

i bought second by asking auctioneer if I was to pay the asking price, would i get the house or would my offer be used as a floor. I was told that i would get the house, so I went to see it and bought it there and then.

Better to pay perhaps a bit more now, to get what you want, than to regret it later.


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## deedee80 (19 May 2007)

I agree with Ravima, if you really want the house then don't offer too low as they won't take you serious.  You said that even the asking price was good value for this estate.


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## extopia (20 May 2007)

It's up to you. Every sale is different, and you have to try to get as much info as you possibly can before you decide what kind of offer might be accepted. I certainly would never condone any kind of time wasting, but often an offer under (and sometimes very significantly under) the asking price can be successful.


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## bakerbhoy (21 May 2007)

HI
  I am soon to sell my house to start a self build.I had a few EA'S up to make estimates guides etc.At the moment the house is definitely not in a show house state . Showing signs of growing kids and woofer out the back.
      Well one of the ea's rang last week saying they had someone to view even though the house is not yet on the market.We explained the state of the place ''herself has been stocking up on goodies for new nest ,so attic/garage and my little shed are completely cramed .
     So quick tidy up viewing took place , immeadiate offer 15k under my price.
      I set my price on sales in my estate '34 houses' over last 24 months.This is my price , 1st to offer and it's theirs.It's a fair price to both parties , i'm not interested in squeezing more. I won't give my house away and my price is my selling price not asking. A bit like E-BaY  buy it now. 
    The advice given in previous posts is perfectly valid.Don't pay over the odds for a house even if you love.Make an offer you believe is a fair one and leave it with at that ,move on ,there are plenty of good houses to be found.


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## De Boss (21 May 2007)

Am delighted you have found THE house! You have received very different responses throughout your query. To be honest, if it is the perfect house for you, I think you should just go with your instinct.  If you feel you might have disappointed the vendor with your offer, increase it to what you would feel the house is worth if it were you selling. While you might save a few pounds with a low offer, you could end up losing it if someone swoops in with a better one.

Good luck with it - and keep us posted!


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## LivLand (22 May 2007)

BakerBhoy - How long will you not budge on your price to get a sale ? Months / Years ?


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## LadyJane (22 May 2007)

Hi all,

Just an update. We offered the asking price on Monday after viewing again on Saturday. The EA said he would get back to us. I am wondering how long we wait until we hear back? Perhaps I am wallowing in FTB naiveté, but I would consider the asking price is a pretty sure bet? 

Again, we can't wait forever as the vendor of the new build, now 2nd choice house, we have paid a deposit on, is ringing all the time wanting to know if we have signed the contracts.

Stress! This is not an enjoyable experience...


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## Aidan 2232 (22 May 2007)

I hope this works out for you but the logical thing for the vendor to do now is just wait.  They know they have someone who is likely to beat any further offer that comes in as you've already increased your bid by 20k, and from what you've said, possibly appear a bit too keen.  I'd be careful of a phantom bidder arriving on the scene shortly.

Best of luck anyway


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## bakerbhoy (22 May 2007)

LivLand said:


> BakerBhoy - How long will you not budge on your price to get a sale ? Months / Years ?


 
I am lucky in this regard as i can wait if need be . I can start my new house and build to roof level and park it .I repeat i won't be giving my house away nor am i looking to fleece anyone.I will keep it if i have to, not too interested in becoming a landlord thats why i am selling.Property in the long term is still a winning investment.It just depends on how greedy people are.


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## bakerbhoy (22 May 2007)

LadyJane said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just an update. We offered the asking price on Monday after viewing again on Saturday. The EA said he would get back to us. I am wondering how long we wait until we hear back? Perhaps I am wallowing in FTB naiveté, but I would consider the asking price is a pretty sure bet?
> 
> ...


 
LadyJane 
 You have made a bid , a fair bid.Don't fret yourself into paying over the odds. Pressure the EA into getting an answer explaining about your 2nd choice. Give it a couple of days and demand an answer or you will withdraw your offer and go with 2nd choice.


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## LadyJane (22 May 2007)

Thanks, Bakerbhoy, for the advice.


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## extopia (22 May 2007)

Oh calm down, will you, you've already ignored most of the advice your were given! 

You're the buyer. Withdraw the offer if you like. It's not unheard of to tell the agent that your offer holds until a certain date, at which point it will be reduced (maybe even reduced to your original offer).

You're right - you're bidding against yourself at this stage and now the agent will hold out to see how much higher you're prepared to go. If he starts making noises about another bidder, get a third party to ring up and enquire if there are any bids on the house and how much.


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## pinkyBear (23 May 2007)

LadyJane you do need to be careful here - take extopias advice, you do appear verrrry eager, and as other members have stated you could get caught with a phantom bidder... 

You need to be very detached with this house (hard I know), and don't be afraid to threaten to withdraw your offer if anything unsuspoeting comes up. 

This is the strategy I used with our place when a "new" bidder offered more money after the EA had accepted our offer on behalf of the couple...


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## barryo (24 May 2007)

Calm down - I wouldnt like to see you playing poker.

Firstly, as are going to be a bidder on the house you will have your own final say. No rush!

If you want to try to nudge a quick sale make an offer about 4-5% below asking price and insist on a quick answer explaining there is another property you want to bid on if they are not interested in selling. 

If this doesn't work make your bid and asked to be informed. Problem here is EA will seize the opportunity to make it into an auction. Even falsley. Dont show how keen you are to EA as this will be reported back to seller.
Keep a poker face and ask to be kept informed. Make sure the EA knows you are interested in other properties.
At worst - there are other ideal houses.
Keep your head


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## Delizia (31 May 2007)

I was in a similar situation recently - found the house I *loved* and started with a bid 25K under the AP on the very next day after the first open viewing. (It was the second identical house on that block I had bid on through the same agent, so she already knew about me.)

Agent said that vendor wanted to wait, so I said I could pay 12.5K under the AP if vendor was willing to take it off the market there and then (it was not actual bid, mind you!). The vendor said he would only consider taking it off the market at 15K *over* the AP. (What's the AP for if vendor won't even be willing to sell at that price, I thought then?)

A few weeks passed and the vendor saw reason. Someone had (according to the EA) put down an offer for 2.5K more than our previous offer at 20K under, but in the end we closed at 5K under the AP.

We are now sale agreed and the contracts should be signed in July.

Why am I telling you this? Well, it was exactly the house we wanted in the street we wanted, and there are not many of those! So we really wanted it, and the agent knew that. 

This was both an advantage and a disadvantage - the EA knew we would not want to lose the house and would be prepared to pay more, but she also knew that we were serious buyers. So if you really want that house, be prepared to pay a little bit more than someone who only bought it for an investment would. After all, you'll recoup the extra cost in the enjoyment of living in a place you really love.


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## LadyJane (7 Jun 2007)

Hi Lads,

A happy ending to this little (or not so little) story. We agreed sale yesterday! 

We are delighted and looking forward to spending the next 40 or 50 years in our new home.

Thanks for all the advice. Some it it drove me crazy, but mostly, it was great to have a space to vent, imagine and plan.

If I learned anything, it is that every sale is individual and you just have to do what you think is best. Second guessing or trying to predict EA's and vendors is about as useful as chewing gum to solve an algebra equation!

Well we got there in the end, thank God.

L J


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## deedee80 (8 Jun 2007)

Thats brilliant, congratulations!


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