# Mortgage Arrears: Tenants have not paid rent for 7 months



## coogeebear (24 Aug 2006)

Have a bit of a problem with arrears in mortgage. I am renting out my house in Dublin and just found out that my tennents have not paid their rent for 7 months over two years. To my stupity I did not check each month as the tennents had a good record over the first year and I got no letters from the bank stating arrears. 
The tennents are gone and it only came to light. I called the bank and they want the 8500k paid or there will be legal proceedings. I don't have the 8k to pay outright so I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions to keep the bank off my back. They are not happy and my credit rating is now effected.

Thanks


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*



> *Morgage Problem*





This was originally posted in the _Mortgages and *Home *Buying _forum.


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## HighFlier (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*

Track down the tenant and sue him if he does not pay within 30 days.


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## coogeebear (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*

They left without notice and I am living abroad which makes it harder. I have no forward address and the letting agent I used has no idea where they have gone. They also left a gas bill and phone bill which I had to pay last week.


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## HighFlier (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*

For that kind of money I'd pay a few hundred to a Private detective to track them down


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## coogeebear (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*

Thanks Highflier thats not a bad idea, will look into it. I still have the problem with the bank.


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## HighFlier (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*

Golden Pages for each area has details of Agencys

If you are overseas golden pages is available on line at www.goldenpages.ie


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## CelloPoint (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*



coogeebear said:


> ...the letting agent I used has no idea where they have gone...



I no expert on this kind of thing, but surely the letting agent would be responsible for collecting rent on your behalf?

I'd get on to a solicitor straight away, pay the E8,500 (as much as it hurts), and look into a private detective so you can sue your tenants' asses down to the last penny. Look into sueing the letting agent too.


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## 892896 (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Problem*

Avoid getting a bad credit record with the bank at all costs. Borrow from a Credit Union if needs be.


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Problem*



892896 said:


> Avoid getting a bad credit record with the bank at all costs. Borrow from a Credit Union if needs be.


How does that help? The _CU _usually requires that substantial funds be held in shares/on deposit to get a loan and they still have to be paid and an increasing number of them submit details to the _ICB _these days if the implicit proposal is to default on the _CU _loan if necessary.


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## deem (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Morgage Problem*



CelloPoint said:


> I no expert on this kind of thing, but surely the letting agent would be responsible for collecting rent on your behalf?
> 
> I'd get on to a solicitor straight away, pay the E8,500 (as much as it hurts), and look into a private detective so you can sue your tenants' asses down to the last penny. Look into sueing the letting agent too.


 
I would have thought this too, surely the letting agents would have been aware that the rent was not being paid or the payments not being made for mortgage??


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## CCOVICH (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Problem*

Letting agents frequently just find tenants for the property, they are not responsible for collection of rent, unless it is explicitly stated.  If the rent was being paid directoy in to the OP's account, it is hard to see how a letting agency would know it hadn't been paid unless the OP told them?


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## Satanta (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Problem*



CCOVICH said:


> Letting agents frequently just find tenants for the property, they are not responsible for collection of rent, unless it is explicitly stated.  If the rent was being paid directoy in to the OP's account, it is hard to see how a letting agency would know it hadn't been paid unless the OP told them?



Tend to agree. In the last property I rented the letting agent made the introduction and were responsible for the collection of deposit and the first months rent (in order to allow time for the landlord and I to set up future payments).

From there it was entirly down to dealings between the landlord and myself with no imput from the letting agent (as is common in *most*, there are exceptions, cases) [this also included a bank mistake resulting in a double payment in the second month notified to me within hours (and before I'd checked my account) by the landlord - money returned immediatly].


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## corco2000 (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*

Why did u pay gas and phone bill surely they were both NOT in your name? Its Tennents responsibilty to pay these not you. And they will have bad credit with the companies. The bill is attached to the name not the address. You need to track them down.


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## Voilet (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*

According to some phone companies, the main account holder can change the name on the account to another person living in the house, without that person's permission for a €10 admin fee. 

I could not believe it when they told me this on the phone.


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## Satanta (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



Voilet said:


> According to some phone companies, the main account holder can change the name on the account to another person living in the house, without that person's permission for a €10 admin fee.



This one seems very strange. 
How does the phone company verify that the person lives at the address?
How can they be held responsible for a bill they (possibly) have no knowledge of?
What is to stop anyone setting up the bill in the name of Bill Gates (or at least any Irish resident they hold details on [can't remember what may be needed for a phone bill, PPS no.?]?

Seems very strange.


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## Raskolnikov (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*

First of all, it sounds like coogeebear has handled the letting of this property very poorly. Having done something similar many moons ago, I hope coogeebear learns from this.


corco2000 said:


> Why did u pay gas and phone bill surely they were both NOT in your name? Its Tennents responsibilty to pay these not you. And they will have bad credit with the companies. The bill is attached to the name not the address. You need to track them down.


If coogeebear's name was on the bills then he/she is liable to pay these bills. If one of the tenant's names were on the bills, then coogeebear had no reason whatsoever to pay the bill. If that's the case, I would look into trying to get the money returned; as impossible as that may be. If coogeebear's name is on the bills, he/she has very little recourse but will know in future not to put utilities in his/her name.

As for pursuing monies owed by the tenants? I imagine that the letting agent has drawn up a legally binding document that will allow you to prosecute if you don't receive the cash? If that's the case, then you should do what ever it takes to track your former tenants down. I hope you've hung onto the phone bill, is it itemised? Maybe the tenants made calls to relatives, which will help you further in tracing your money. Keep any scrap of information relating to your ex-tenants just incase it proves useful.

As for dealing with the bank. I would suggest that you arrange a meeting with your bank manager and explain your situation. If you have some savings, I'm sure you'll be able to engineer some sort of deal to help you out of this hole.


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## CCOVICH (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



Satanta said:


> This one seems very strange.
> How does the phone company verify that the person lives at the address?
> How can they be held responsible for a bill they (possibly) have no knowledge of?
> What is to stop anyone setting up the bill in the name of Bill Gates (or at least any Irish resident they hold details on [can't remember what may be needed for a phone bill, PPS no.?]?
> ...


 

No, as far as I can recall you need to go through hoops when setting up an account, but after that they will change the name without hassle.


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## liteweight (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*

Sorry to add to your trouble but, if you live abroad then the tenant is legally bound to retain part of the rent, which is paid over to the Revenue on your behalf!  The only other alternative is to appoint a person or agent to collect the rent for you! You may then look after your own tax affairs.

The builder of new apartment blocks, usually has the utilities connected. They are subsequently changed from his name into the name of the purchaser or landlord. If a landlord, he/she rings ESB, Gas, etc. with details of their new tenant. The utility co. then sends out direct debit forms etc. to address in new tenants name and it's taken from there. Not sure about phones.


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## room305 (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



liteweight said:


> Sorry to add to your trouble but, if you live abroad then the tenant is legally bound to retain part of the rent, which is paid over to the Revenue on your behalf!  The only other alternative is to appoint a person or agent to collect the rent for you! You may then look after your own tax affairs.



Does this not make the tenants who ran off liable for tax on the rent rather than coogee? I imagine a call to the revenue explaining the situation would be a good idea. They may be able to help in locating the tenants. Especially if you have a PPS no. and so forth.


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## Howitzer (24 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



room305 said:


> Especially if you have a PPS no. and so forth.


 
The OP certainly should have the tenants PPSN. Sure wouldn't he have needed it to have registered the tenancy with the PRTB!! 

Registering the PRTB is designed to protect the landlord as much as the tenant, and would have done so in this instance. I can only assume the OP hasn't in fact registered, or indeed paid tax on his rental income (he would have needed to know what his rental income was in order to pay it!!) As such, as unfortunate as this is and as cold hearted as this sounds, I have absolutely no sympathy.


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## coogeebear (26 Aug 2006)

Thank you for all your good advise.

I have got someone chasing it up as I speak. Will keep you updated on outcome and the main thing I have learned out of all this is that even if you tennants pay on time for over a year, you should always check your account on due date so it can be resloved before it becomes a problem.


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## Marie (26 Aug 2006)

*Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



liteweight said:


> Sorry to add to your trouble but, if you live abroad then the tenant is legally bound to retain part of the rent, which is paid over to the Revenue on your behalf! The only other alternative is to appoint a person or agent to collect the rent for you! You may then look after your own tax affairs.
> 
> The builder of new apartment blocks, usually has the utilities connected. They are subsequently changed from his name into the name of the purchaser or landlord. If a landlord, he/she rings ESB, Gas, etc. with details of their new tenant. The utility co. then sends out direct debit forms etc. to address in new tenants name and it's taken from there. Not sure about phones.


 
Anyone can change the name on utilities to another once it is set up; strange but true.

You are a landlord living abroad and the _law _now is that you have an officially-designated agent _in Ireland_  who handles the rent or alternatively the tenant withholds the appropriate amount for payment directly to the Revenue.


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## liteweight (26 Aug 2006)

*Re: Mortgage Arrears: Tennants have not paid rent for 7 months*



Marie said:


> Anyone can change the name on utilities to another once it is set up; strange but true.



Yes, I have never been asked to prove who I am when I ring up to change account on behalf of a new tenant!


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