# Cut off One Parent Payment??? UNFAIR



## tinker-bell (8 Oct 2008)

Hi

I have been receiving one parent allowance for over 2 years. I have 2 children, both with the same father. We broke up a few months after having our first child and have not lived together since. He lives close by with his mother and he sees his children a lot. I live in one of his mothers house with my 2 children. He pays 70 a week maintenance and half the utility bills. I have the use of his car for the school runs etc and i do not pay rent. My payment was means tested due to the support i was receiving from him. I was receiving 191 per week.

I now want to start working and have secured a job under the CE scheme and have enrolled for a course due to start in May. 

So in order to start the job, my payment had to be increased for the second child. ( i did not realise I had to apply for second child) so a back payment for a year is due. I had been in contact with the inspector and explained the situation of starting work etc and the next thing I get a letter cutting me off my payment. Reason...Co-habiting! This is so wrong. Because I am getting support from my ex they think there is more going on. If thats not bad enough, I cant start the job either cos I need to be in receipt of a payment. I have appealed but im getting no where.

The job is due to start monday and I still don't know if I can do it. Not alone, what am I going to live on if they cut it off for good?

Can they do this? I am not co-habiting. I am considering the solicitor route or TD route??

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## davidoco (8 Oct 2008)

tinker-bell said:


> ...... I live in one of his mothers house ......... He pays 70 a week maintenance and half the utility bills. I have the use of his car ..............and i do not pay rent.


 
I'd think you were cohabating too!  How far away does he live?  How do you actually share the car?

Paying half the utility bills and sharing the car would lead any reasonable inspector to infer that you were living together.


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## Sue Ellen (8 Oct 2008)

tinker-bell said:


> I have 2 children, both with the same father. We broke up a few months after having our first child and have not lived together since.



Another reason.


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## Towger (8 Oct 2008)

tinker-bell said:


> I have 2 children, both with the same father. We broke up a few months after having our first child and have not lived together since.


 
As per Davidoco, where did the 2nd child come from?


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## tinker-bell (8 Oct 2008)

He Lives About 2 Minutes Down Road. Well, Won't They Have To Prove Im Cohabating? He Lives With His Mother Who Has Cancer And Needs Someone There 24/7. I Do Not See How You Think Im Cohabating? If I Was Cohabating Wouldnt I Say I Paid All The Bills Myself And Pay Rent Etc. Claim A Bit More??? He Feels Obliged To Make Sure His Children Are Looked After And Gives The Best He Can. Wheres The Crime In That????


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## rmelly (8 Oct 2008)

I think the posters are playing devils advocate - to be honest the more you say the more it looks like co-habiting. I still haven't figured out the bit about the second child yet, plus the 2 minutes and the being at home to help the mother - would he be at home of the mother wasn't sick?

Do you eat together? Is he over most evenings? Does he have any clothes/toothbrush etc in the house you are renting?


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## tinker-bell (8 Oct 2008)

Errmmm, You Dont Have To Live With Someone To Have A Child U Know. Should I Be Asking For More Maintenance So I Can Pay My Own Bills Myself And Buy A Car?? Move Out And Pay Rent? Claim More Benefits Like Rent Allowance, Household Benefits? Im Trying My Best Here To Get Trained Get A Job And Come Off Benefits And Be Self Sufficient.


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## tinker-bell (8 Oct 2008)

He Calls When He Can, He Has No Cloths Here Or Toothbrush! He Adores His Children As Ive Said Before. He Doesnt Eat Here That Often But Yes He Has Done.


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## Red (8 Oct 2008)

Why are you starting every word with a capital letter ? 
Makes the post very difficult to read.
If you broke up after birth of first child, why is he the father of your second child? Sounds like an on-off relationship.


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## aircobra19 (8 Oct 2008)

I guess you'd have to find out how the inspector determines cohabation. What are the criteria.


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## truthseeker (8 Oct 2008)

Tinkerbell, your posts come across like youre shouting with the capitalisation.

All that is happening here is people are offering their opinion to try to understand why your payments have been cut off.

This is clearly not a black and white situation.

It does sound like you are co-habiting. He pays half of all bills and utilities, you dont pay rent, he is 2 minutes away minding his mum, you have 2 children together, you get to use his car for school runs.

I am not saying that you dont co-habit, but it surely sounds like you do.

Can you not get a part time job while the kids are in school?


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## theoneill (8 Oct 2008)

Red said:


> If you broke up after birth of first child, why is he the father of your second child? Sounds like an on-off relationship.



I don’t think it’s unreasonable to infer this.


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## jhegarty (8 Oct 2008)

tinker-bell said:


> Errmmm, You Dont Have To Live With Someone To Have A Child U Know. Should I Be Asking For More Maintenance So I Can Pay My Own Bills Myself And Buy A Car?? Move Out And Pay Rent? Claim More Benefits Like Rent Allowance, Household Benefits? Im Trying My Best Here To Get Trained Get A Job And Come Off Benefits And Be Self Sufficient.



yes, that's pretty much it


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## tinker-bell (8 Oct 2008)

sorry caps lock was on. all i can say about the second child is it was a mistake. but i would not change the world for her. and im glad she is here. everyone seems dead set against me. im doing nothing wrong. just trying to make an honest living and become something. i should probably have mentioned earlier that he is in another relationship. it is over between us. if i get taken off this payment...we will literally starve to death.


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## davidoco (8 Oct 2008)

tinker-bell said:


> He Calls When He Can, He Has No Cloths Here Or Toothbrush! He Adores His Children As Ive Said Before. He Doesnt Eat Here That Often But Yes He Has Done.


 
Will you go easy on the capitals please.

You have no choice but to go through the appeals process. My approach would be to be upfront about how it all seems very cosy but that they are wrong to refuse you based on the facts - there is no need for emotional stuff about where babies came from or who loves who how much.

Just saw your last post - your sorted if he marries or announces his engagement to this other girl - maybe an announcement in the paper would clinch it for you. I wonder would she give evidence for you.


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## DeeFox (8 Oct 2008)

if i get taken off this payment...we will literally starve to death.[/quote]

You will not starve to death - your partner is clearly looking out for your interests.  With so many single parents abusing this system it is highly likely that the Dept will make mistakes.   Go through their Appeals process. Can you take on some childminding or other suitable part time work to help make ends meet?

It strikes me that the single parents allowance is very anti-family.  There is a financial incentive not to get back with your ex partner and the father of your children.  (Through my job I regularly get calls from girls asking if they can rent a property whilst claiming RA and single mother benefits and have their boyfriend live with them too - I'm not judging the practice as such but just saying from own observations it seems to be widespread).


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## rmelly (8 Oct 2008)

FYI, I wasn't 'judging' you or anything else, just giving you a different perspective on how your situation appears to an outsider.


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## gipimann (8 Oct 2008)

For information, here's a link to what Dept of Social & Family Affairs has to say about co-habitation.

http://www.welfare.ie/foi/cohabit.html


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## gillarosa (8 Oct 2008)

Hi Tinkerbell,

I understand that there is currently a drive on behalf of the Dept to cut down on Welfare fraud, your circumstances where there is a friendly and financially beneficial relationship between your Children's father and yourself may ring warning bells with them, they may find it easier to understand a situation where there is no financial help unless court ordered!! It sounds like they are playing hard ball with you and your only route is to appeal.

In regard to your course, you could maybe approach the course provider and advise that you have been in receipt of Lone Parent allowance, are not working but there is an scheduled appeal to a decision they took on your status and allowance?

Good luck.


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## Ger (8 Oct 2008)

Ask to appeal this decision.(citizens info may help.)


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## ruibear (8 Oct 2008)

Best of luck Tinkerbell, I understand how some are actually playing 'devils advocate' so you must take this on board cos this is what will be asked of you by the SW.

You sound like you are attempting to stand on your own feet and should be commended on it.
I hope it works out well for you but you may have a hard time 'proving' you're not a scrounger to the SW. Good people get the lashback from the scumbags (and there are thousands of them) unfortunately.

Best of luck.


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## sparkeee (8 Oct 2008)

your entitled to whatever the law of the land allows,if your not co habiting you are entitled to certain things,they have to prove otherwise,appeal it see a solicitor if you have to,get every penny you can.


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## Welfarite (14 Oct 2008)

Coming in late to this one. apologies...

First off, "cohabitation" is not just living under the same roof. Many factors will have been taken into accouint by the investigator beforre submitting his report to the Deciding Officer. He will have noted, bill arrangements, use of car, fact that second child was not claimed at time of birth (indicator to covering up of situation), socialising together, visiting, etc.. Also, getting support from the father of the children is not the reason that you were disqualifeid. In fact, SW expects One-parent Family Parents to look for support from the other parent and query if they don't pay maintenqance! Also see Gipimann's link.

Tinkerbell says she has appealed decision but is "getting nowhere". The appeal process (written of course) is a formal one to an independent party and must reach a formal conclusion, wiht a written result. I don't see how "getting nowhere" fits into this, it is not a tit for tat argument with SW that takes place over the phone or something! Similarly, going to a TD before exhausting the appeal route is pointless as the Appeals Office is an independent body and has to be so to demonstrate fairness.


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## Bronte (14 Oct 2008)

Can the Health board not fund you while you are waiting for your appeal.  I am guessing an appeal can take quite a few weeks.  Maybe it would be better if you paid rent and rather than the father of your children paying bills it would be better that he just paid you maintenance so that you fit into the social welfare requirements.


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## kfk (14 Oct 2008)

It does seem a bit harsh, what the SW are doing. I can see why they may believe that you are cohabiting, but surely they should think "INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty" as should some of the other posters on this tread. They do not have strong evidence from what you have said. If this was brought up in front of a court, it would be thrown out straight away on lack of evidence. If I was in your position and I was innocent, I would be very p1ssed off. Consult a solicitor and find out if there is any possible action that you can take against the department if you lose your job and you win your appeal, eg. loss of earnings.


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## tinker-bell (17 Oct 2008)

*Appeals Process*

Well, as yet, my appeal is still to go to the Appeals office! They are taking there time to send it??? What is the process I need to follow? And in order to get my records, so I can defend myself, can I just go into the SW office and request my information? Do they hand them over there and then? How long does that all take?

Thanks

Previous post.......

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=94063


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## Welfarite (17 Oct 2008)

*Re: Appeals Process*

Tinker-bell, the fact that your appeal has not been processed yet is probably a good thing! This may mean they are reconsidering the decision in the light of what you said in your appeal submission (new evidence can allow them to do this). If you have made the same points in your appeal as you did in the first post in the other thread, you might get a revised decision.


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## tinker-bell (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Appeals Process*

Just one question......can the inspector decide what the outcome is..ie. recommend it go to Appeals office? The inspector I am dealing with has not given the file to the deciding officer and yet he has gave me the final decision that it is going to Appeals. I think he has a personal grudge against me. Can I request a different inspector because from what I know he has not been following the procedures?

Thanks


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## tinker-bell (19 Oct 2008)

Okay....so after a lot of messing, I think it is going to the Appeals Office. We have since made different arrangements as regards the household bills. He has set up a standing order for maintenance and is paying a bit more and no longer paying half the bills. So, will this be taken into consideration in the appeals because I think this is one of the main factors. Also, with regards, use of the car, I am looking for a car. They are very expensive to tax insure and mainly to purchase. With still no word from CWO I have nothing coming in. I am living on the child benefit. How am I suppose to buy a car with no money? Also, if I started paying rent (which will be a big struggle) even if it is 20 per week, would that be taken into consideration for appeals in light of new information? This is an uphill struggle. Im finding it very difficult.  I can't believe I am been treated like this. Not only that, I feel the inspector is not been fair in this process. He is making all the decisions. I know this as I have spoke with the deciding officer and she has not even seen the file!!!


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## Sue Ellen (19 Oct 2008)

Tinkerbell,

I have merged your two threads as it is merely causing confusion/duplication of answers and in breach of the posting guidelines.


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## Ris (19 Oct 2008)

gillarosa said:


> Hi Tinkerbell,
> 
> 
> In regard to your course, you could maybe approach the course provider and advise that you have been in receipt of Lone Parent allowance, are not working but there is an scheduled appeal to a decision they took on your status and allowance?
> ...


 
As far as CE (Community Employment) goes, one must be on the Live Register or in receipt of a Lone Parents Allowance to be eligible so the course provider will have no say in it. FAS have the final say and if those criteria arent met then a person cannot be started on the scheme.

You need to definitely appeal this as quickly as possible. In the meantime get yourself down to your Community Welfare Officer in your local health Centre and explain whats happened. You can get emergency payments while the appeal situation is being sorted out.

Best of luck and I hope it works out for you


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## tinker-bell (19 Oct 2008)

As I say, I think I am been treated unfairly. This has been going to appeals since the end of September and it is still in the local office. They know I was due to start the scheme and I think this is what has triggered them off. My payment would have been reduced anyway. My situation in regards the arrangements has been the way since we split...years ago. It has not changed...so why 2 years later is that not acceptable? Its because I am getting up and doing something with my life!!
Ps Have been in contact with CWO over a week ago and they must contact social welfare office. Once again, Im waiting on them to do something.

Sorry for the rant but I am furious!!!!

Are SW going to pay me for loss of earnings through the job I was going to do???


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## europhile (19 Oct 2008)

davidoco said:


> your sorted if he marries or announces his engagement to this other girl - maybe an announcement in the paper would clinch it for you. I wonder would she give evidence for you.





> LYNDA XXXX XXXXXXX - CHRISTOPHER XXXX XXXXXX
> Lynda and Christopher were married in Covent Garden, London on Saturday September 6, 2008. Guests were piped into the Church with bagpipes and the service included choir, trumpeter and organ. Cars and a London route-master bus were provided to take the parents, XXXX and XXXX, from XXXXX, Dublin and XXXX XXXXXXX of XXXXXXX, Kent and guests, to a champagne reception and dinner for sixty at the Marriott Hotel, County Hall, London. A number of guests attended from Ireland, including members of the Alexandra College Guild, the bride being Chairperson of the London Branch. The bride and groom intend a grand tour of Switzerland for their honeymoon.



This one was in the Irish Times recently.


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## tinker-bell (20 Oct 2008)

They have'nt been together that long and I could'nt possibly ask them to tie the knot for my sake!!!


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