# Grandmothers debts after she passed away



## bullworth (11 Sep 2013)

I know someone who took over tenancy of his grandmothers council house after she passed away.

The Eircom account has since been closed by him but they keep sending a bill for 250 euro or so to his address in her name. Who is liable for this bill ? Will debt collectors come calling and worrying him about somebody elses bill ? He sent Eircom a letter explaining that she was deceased and therefore to cancel the account but  line rental was running up while this was happening.

any views ?


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## dannygael (11 Sep 2013)

The debt ceased to exist once the grandmother passed. No else is responsible for that debt. Any communication suggesting otherwise is incorrect. If debt collectors start calling, tell them you will call the Gardaí if they approach you again.


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## Jim2007 (12 Sep 2013)

dannygael said:


> The debt ceased to exist once the grandmother passed. No else is responsible for that debt. Any communication suggesting otherwise is incorrect. If debt collectors start calling, tell them you will call the Gardaí if they approach you again.



The debt most certainly does not cease to exist!  It like all other debts need to be paid out the estate of the deceased by the executors.


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## Bronte (12 Sep 2013)

Is anyone using the phone?


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## bullworth (12 Sep 2013)

The deceased had no will and no estate. The phone has been cut off. Someone may have used it accidentally for a very small amount but who that person was is unknown.


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## Jim2007 (12 Sep 2013)

bullworth said:


> The deceased had no will and no estate. The phone has been cut off. Someone may have used it accidentally for a very small amount but who that person was is unknown.



Well if you know it simple tell them the name and addresss of the solicitor or family member who wound things down.  They will then just receive back a replay from the solicitor or family member confirming the death and that there was no estate.  Although it is going to be a hard sell to get anyone to believe that the deceased had absolutely nothing at the time of their dead!


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## Padraigb (12 Sep 2013)

Unless she owned and owed absolutely nothing, there was an estate. I presume that she owned a few bits and pieces - personal effects, furniture, things like that. She died leaving a debt unpaid.

Any assets she had should be used first to cover the cost of her funeral and to settle outstanding debts. If she had no assets, then the estate is unable to pay its debts. If the person who took over the tenancy also took over household contents worth more than €250, then he should pay the debt.


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## bullworth (12 Sep 2013)

Padraigb said:


> If the person who took over the tenancy also took over household contents worth more than €250, then he should pay the debt.



well another point of view is, you cant just land responsibiity for somebody elses' contract onto someone who didnt agree to any of it. How can you ? The grandmother could have entered into all manner of contracts costing millions yet how could the new tenant be responsible for any of it ?


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## Jim2007 (12 Sep 2013)

bullworth said:


> well another point of view is, you cant just land responsibiity for somebody elses' contract onto someone who didnt agree to any of it. How can you ? The grandmother could have entered into all manner of contracts costing millions yet how could the new tenant be responsible for any of it ?



It is not a question of opinions actually, but a point of law!  If the relatives of the deceased simply converted the assets of the estate to their own use without first dealing with the deceased's debts, then they can be held liable for the debts and furthermore could leave themselves open to criminal prosecution.


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## Kev (12 Sep 2013)

bullworth said:


> I know someone who took over tenancy of his grandmothers council house after she passed away.
> 
> The Eircom account has since been closed by him but they keep sending a bill for 250 euro or so to his address in her name. Who is liable for this bill ? Will debt collectors come calling and worrying him about somebody elses bill ? He sent Eircom a letter explaining that she was deceased and therefore to cancel the account but  line rental was running up while this was happening.
> 
> any views ?



 I read somewhere about that happened before, after several letter to the company explaining that the person had died to no avail in the end they sent the company the address of the deceased, i.e.,  the graveyard where the person was buried and plot number for reference.


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## orka (13 Sep 2013)

bullworth said:


> well another point of view is, you cant just land responsibiity for somebody elses' contract onto someone who didnt agree to any of it.


The balancing argument to that is that the person can't just assume ownership of the grandmother's assets.  No-one is saying the person has to pay the debt out of his own pocket if the grandmother left absolutely nothing of any value but if the person has assumed ownership of things in the house (fridge, cooker, furniture?), then there is value in the grandmother's estate and debts should be paid off with the beneficiary keeping the net value.

If there were assets at the time of death, then these should be used to pay the debt.  It's no different than if the grandmother has €250 in a bank account - do you think it would be okay to just take that and not pay the debt?


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## bullworth (13 Sep 2013)

orka said:


> The balancing argument to that is that the person can't just assume ownership of the grandmother's assets.  No-one is saying the person has to pay the debt out of his own pocket if the grandmother left absolutely nothing of any value but if the person has assumed ownership of things in the house (fridge, cooker, furniture?), then there is value in the grandmother's estate and debts should be paid off with the beneficiary keeping the net value.
> 
> If there were assets at the time of death, then these should be used to pay the debt.  It's no different than if the grandmother has €250 in a bank account - do you think it would be okay to just take that and not pay the debt?



well the problem here is that the person responsible for burying the granny has been crying poverty etc . And the person responsible for the grannys financial affairs is not the new tenant aka the grandson. However the land line was physically connected by default when he moved into a sole tenancy. If I remember or obtain any further information I will post it here.


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## DebtCert (13 Sep 2013)

Who ran up the bill, and when? That is key to who is responsible.


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