# Can one claim for Humpty-Dumpty time wasting?



## Jayqi (25 Mar 2010)

I recently got dragged into a 3-week email wrangle over a claim on a deposit of mine that the other side was holding. Eventually I succeeded in forcing the issue but this was because I spotted an anomaly that suggested malpractice and they capitulated. But when does obdurate, unwarranted, unscrupulous negotiating become actionable?

It concerned an apartment that I had rented for 18 months and vacated in excellent condition. Yet the Landlord through the rental agency's Property Negotiator lay siege to my deposit to the tune of £750. Until they capitulated they fought tooth and nail on claims that just did not stand up. When I presented evidence that their claims were unfounded, they never addressed the evidence but invariably what would occur is they would offer me a compromise in the form of a reduced offer. It was devious, manipulative and almost surreal as I have never encountered professional people flouting the contractual duty that usually prevails in such circumstances to be fair and reasonable. At one stage in the proceedings I characterised their reasoning as Humpty-Dumpty semantics. 

Nonetheless, their antics wasted an inordinate amount of my time and I especially resented the fact that one of their lawyers, while asserting his right to charge his client to write emails on her behalf, was very cocky in asserting that it was not possible in law for me to claim comensation for way I had to write emails to his client to stop her plundering my deposit. Both she and the rental agency knew I was a professional writer and the apartment was used by me as my office.

The matter did not reach the Deposit Protection Service but this organisation has a reputation for mediating compromises that are unfavourable to the tenant. 

I would appreciate anyone's comments who is acquainted with the legal issues this raises.

Thank you, Jay


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## ajapale (25 Mar 2010)

What does Humpty Dumpty time wasting mean?

Does your question relate to the Republic of Ireland?

Please note that legal questions relating to property ownership and investment are posted in propery investment section of AAM

aj
moderator


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## seantheman (25 Mar 2010)

ajapale said:


> Does your question relate to the Republic of Ireland?
> 
> Please note that legal questions relating to property ownership and investment are posted in propery investment section of AAM
> 
> ...


 Seems to me that the thread has relevance regardless of the territory.

It also appears that the poster was renting the property, so the ownership and investment angle surely dont apply?


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## ajapale (25 Mar 2010)

Moved from  Askaboutlaw  to *Property  investment and tenants' rights
*which is where all aspects of the landlord tenant relationship is discussed on AAM*.


*


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## txirimiri (26 Mar 2010)

What is the Deposit Protection Service? As the moderator asked, are you referring to a rental property in Ireland? The PRTB is the body that deals with landlord/tenant issues, based on the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. I have read the Act in some detail due to a recent PRTB dispute that I was involved in but can't say I noticed an Article referring to penalties for Humpty Dumpty time wasting -  or any other type of time wasting for that matter. I reckon the answer to yr query is no.


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## ajapale (26 Mar 2010)

Yep its a UK thing! *Deposit  Protection Service

Its an interesting concept:

**The Deposit Protection Service (The DPS)* is open to all  landlords and letting agents, and is the only scheme that is free to  use. 

Our funds are secured with UK approved banks, so for safe,  secure and straightforward deposit protection, The DPS is ideal. 

The DPS is  managed by Computershare Investor Services Plc, a global business with  more than ten years’ deposit protection experience.


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## Jayqi (27 Mar 2010)

Humpty-Dumpty time wasting. What does it mean? Well, it means exactly what the body of the question clarifies: obdurate, irrational, unjustifiable wasting of a person's time. I used the term like a copywriter might to catch the attention of the casual browser. I apologise if this is a breach of etiquette in this forum but obviously the reference is to Humpty Dumpty's style of usage:




‘When *I* use a word,’  Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I  choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
   	‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you _can_ make words  mean so many different things.’
   	‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘_which_ is to be  master – that’s all.’


Although this particular example sprang from a property dispute the issue can arise in any context where an institution, company or body uses irrational, indefensible tactics to thwart a legitimate claim on a desposit it holds agaist the fulfilment of specified contractual obligations. The Humpty Dumpty reference is relevant here because often the claimant, in this case the tenant, is less powerful than the body, in this case the rental agency, that both controls the deposit and is negotiating with him to concede sums being levied on the grounds of the aforementioned obligations not being met.

The time-wasting issue that might or might not, I don't know, have different legal implications in different jurisdictions based on common law. But I wondered when a body's indefensible actions, of the kind I have described, (especially when the body abandons its claims on the deposit even though there is recourse to independent arbitration services) become actionable. Perhaps never, as one thoughtful member opines. 

Perhaps the appropriate and only rememdy for redress is to bill for the wasted time and then to sue if the bill is not met.


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## Jayqi (27 Mar 2010)

With respect, this actually is an issue of law, not a legal issue relating to property ownership and investment. The posting should not have been moved.


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## ajapale (27 Mar 2010)

Is this a UK thing?


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## Jayqi (27 Mar 2010)

Yes but the issue crosses jurisdictions. I posted it here because the quality of postings is high.


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## txirimiri (27 Mar 2010)

The issue crosses jurisdictions but the solution doesn't necessarily, as the two jurisdictions have different laws. As I said above, in Ireland, all landlord-tenant residential disputes are governed by the Residential Tenancies Act. I guess you would need to check under what law these are governed in the UK and relevant arbitration body. I can't imagine there is a stand alone law anywhere re time wasting - it would have to be in the context of a specific law (i.e. there is legislation here whereby someone can be prosecuted for wasting Garda time but that is specific to legislation governing the Garda afaik)


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Mar 2010)

I am closing this thread as the OP would be better getting advice in the UK.

Brendan


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