# CCTV cameras in public park ...privacy laws



## REXO (11 Feb 2011)

A few elderly ladies  ( and a pothole councillor)  have asked  the local council to install cctv cameras  in a lovely quiet park to stop anti social behaviour. Its happening next month at a cost of €60,000.

I dont want cctv cameras, i'd prefer the paths to be resurfaced and new flower beds built than spend 60 grand on cctv.  i dont think they'll stop anti social behaviour , which is actually over hyped. very limited.

Is there legislation to stop this invasion of privacy and waste of money IMHO?


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## Paddyman (11 Feb 2011)

Near where I live in County Carlow there is a nice park known as the Fair Green. It is the last piece of common land in the town centre area.

Very few "ordinary" people use the park because of anti-social activities of some. Women passing groups of youths have to put up with lewd and threatening comments. People won't walk their dogs because of the risk from the Staffs and Cross-Terriers.

And then there are the beer cans and occasional needle left behind by these youths. Would you let your kids play in this area?

Shrubs and trees - including one small area of rare shrubs- have been systematically vandalised.

Security seems non existent. Occasionally the Gardai drive bye. The louts hide only to re-emerge when the Gardai have gone. To the best off my knowledge no one has ever been prosecuted. Women and elderly citizens are afraid to lodge complaints because of the fear of retaliation.

Security cameras would hardly work. Because of cutbacks, cameras are recorded or monitered on an intermittent basis. All this policy does is provide contracts for favoured cronies. And cameras tend to invade the privacy of decent citizens rather than the well-disguised hoodies.


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## Leo (11 Feb 2011)

Simple answer to your question is no. I can't see how you'd be entitled to privacy in a public place.
Leo


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## RonanC (11 Feb 2011)

Invasion of privacy in a public place??? Are you for real? 

Everywhere you go (shopping centres, main roads, town centres and so on are covered by cctv and it has nothing to do with an invasion of privacy, they are there for security and safety. 

If anything, it appears that the council are being very proactive on the issue of anti social behaviour. There is obviously a serious problem in the area to warrant the fitting of the cctv cameras.

In my area, cctv in public places is monitored 24hours a day by the local Garda Station and any instances of anti social behaviour is dealt with promptly.


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## ajapale (11 Feb 2011)

Where is the evidence that cctv cameras in public places reduces anti social behaviour and (illegal dumping which is becoming a big problem in parks and similar open spaces)?

I dont object to cctv on privacy grounds but rather on effectiveness and value for money considerations.


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## z107 (11 Feb 2011)

The UK is hardly crime free and the last time I was there, the place was riddled with CCTV cameras.


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## REXO (14 Feb 2011)

Ive done little research and it seems theres no actual legislation covering surveillance in public areas . However in the Data protaction office there are guidelines saying that groups/ councils must consult widely before cameras are installed.

. I spoke to the local garda and he said the city  is riddled with cameras but has no effect. For any camera to be effective , they have  to be monitored 24 7. The resources are simply not there.

In the same breadth he said that he love to see cameras on every street , park and corner.  It'll be a police state before we know it


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## REXO (14 Feb 2011)

I still feel that being recorded on camera without your permission is an invasion of ones  privacy, whether that be in your garden or street


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## Jane Doe (14 Feb 2011)

REXO said:


> I still feel that being recorded on camera without your permission is an invasion of ones  privacy,


 there is no right to privacy ina public place but there must be a sign to tell people that it is under CCTV



> whether that be in your garden or street


it is different in your garden. for example if someone next door to you trained a cctv on your garden you [broken link removed]


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## ajapale (14 Feb 2011)

Jane Doe said:


> ..in a public place ... must be a sign to tell people that it is under CCTV


Hi Jane,
Thats very interesting. Can you point to the legislation which prescribes this?
Thanks
aj


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## Jane Doe (14 Feb 2011)

ajapale said:


> Hi Jane,
> Thats very interesting. Can you point to the legislation which prescribes this?
> Thanks
> aj


no i cannot offhand but am quite certain of it. I suggest you ask data protection comm or maybe see here [broken link removed]
edit by public place i meant like the park the op refers to. In a street for example each premises with a cctv would have to have one where you would be covered by say cam 1 for a certain distance then move into coverage of cam2. I did not mean there should be a sign to say X street is under cctyv unless it all is by one party.



> 6.1 What issues surround the use of CCTV?
> All usage of CCTV other than in a purely domestic context must be undertaken in compliance with the requirements of the Data Protection Acts.  Extensive guidance on this issue is available at http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=m&fn=/documents/guidance/cctv.htm.  In summary all uses of CCTV must be proportionate and for a specific purpose.  As CCTV infringes the privacy of the persons captured in the images there must be a genuine reason for installing such a system.  If installing such a system, it is required that the purpose for its use be displayed in a prominent position.  In a shop or store context this would normally be at the entrance.
> The images captured should be retained for a maximum of 28 days, except where the image identifies an issue and is retained specifically in the context of an investigation of that issue.
> Tapes should be stored in a secure environment with a log of access to tapes kept. Access should be restricted to authorised personnel. Similar measures should be employed when using disk storage, with automatic logs of access to the images created.


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## ajapale (14 Feb 2011)

Thanks jane Ill have a look at that.

As mentioned above Im against cctv because it is expensive, ineffective and makes people paranoid. The privacy issues surrounding cctv in public parks does not worry me.


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## onq (14 Feb 2011)

REXO said:


> A few elderly ladies  ( and a pothole councillor)  have asked  the local council to install cctv cameras  in a lovely quiet park to stop anti social behaviour. Its happening next month at a cost of €60,000.
> 
> I dont want cctv cameras, i'd prefer the paths to be resurfaced and new flower beds built than spend 60 grand on cctv.  i dont think they'll stop anti social behaviour , which is actually over hyped. very limited.
> 
> Is there legislation to stop this invasion of privacy and waste of money IMHO?



The best "solution" is to provide vandal proof lighting for the area in question.

I say "solution" because this tends to move the problem on to a less well-lit area.

If there is anti-social behaviour in the area then I suspect the amenities you wish to see installed may not last too long.

An engagement by older adults - males and females - in a body politic (residents association) is a better alternative to cameras or lights, backed up by a responsive police presence.

As for privacy in public places - you're kidding right?

ONQ.


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## REXO (15 Feb 2011)

I wrote the blog a little too quickly. I didn't mean that I expect privacy. However the Data protection Act states that people must be informed if they are going to be recorded. This includes passersby.

I found a report on the net ,  prepared by University of Cambridge , that states that cctv does not reduce criminal activity, although it does help with prosecutions where people wont attend court


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## Jane Doe (15 Feb 2011)

REXO said:


> I wrote the blog a little too quickly. I didn't mean that I expect privacy. However the Data protection Act states that people must be informed if they are going to be recorded. This includes passersby.


correct


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