# Where to deposit the NR withdrawl, spreading the risk?



## carpedeum (20 Sep 2007)

I'm sure that I am not the only one wondering where to put their NR withdrawl. I don't want one of the regular banks (AIB, BOI) to get it, if I can help it, because they did damn all for us before Rabo, NR, Halifax arrived and, ethically, they don't measure up (in my humble opinion!). 

I rang EBS and they currently offer one month at 5% on an Fixed Interest Account for amounts over €50K. The twist in this is that after a month it automatically becomes a 3month notice account at 4%.

Going by previous threads over the past week, there seems to be growing consensus amongst AAM users to carve up deposits in €20K chunks to spread the risk.

Anyone got any good ideas, taking ratings and loan to deposit ratios into account? Anglo and Ulster look good too I think? I still think Rabo look okay.


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## pudds (20 Sep 2007)

carpedeum said:


> , taking ratings and loan to deposit ratios into account? Anglo and Ulster look good too I think? I still think Rabo look okay.


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## pudds (20 Sep 2007)

I've gone for Anglo Irish with 16k and am seriously considering Rabbo for 10k @ 5% int.

Permenant TSB seems to have the highest Deposit to Loan rate danger from what I can gather here.


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## vjoc (21 Sep 2007)

*Where to deposit the NR withdrawl?*

Q) Where to put your NR withdrawal?

A1) Straight back into NR. It's the safest bank in the country and it pay's you the best demand rate at 4.5%. Why? No other bank offer's an unlimited deposit guarantee underwritten by the Bank of England (BoE)!!!

A2) Okay, so you don't trust the BoE. Then the next best bet is An Post. Your deposit is state guaranteed. Safe as "houses" or is it? You decide! The catch is the best rate on offer is only 3.0% on a 90 day notice account. Savings Certs & Bonds offer slighter better rates (DIRT free) if your prepared to lock your money up for a number of years. (Note: This only applies to AnPost and not their new joint venture Postbank)

A3) Okay, so now you don't trust the Irish State. Next best bet is NIB. Your deposit is underwritten by the Danish Deposit Guarantee scheme. This guarantees 100% of Kr300k, or €40k approx.  NIB's regular saver demand account pays 4.5% (ECB + 0.5%) on lump sums up to €50k. 

A4) Okay, so now you don't trust the Danish. Next best bet is Rabobank. Your deposit is underwritten by the Dutch Deposit Guarantee scheme. First €20k guaranteed 100%, Next €20k guaranteed 90%, After €40k your own your own. To summarise, a maximum deposit of €40k is guaranteed up to €38k. The demand account pays 5% on the first €10k and 3.75% on any balance thereafter. 

A5) Don't like the Dutch, then you could always trust an Irish Bank, where your deposit is 90% guaranteed up to a maximum of €20k. To summarise, a maximum deposit of €22.2k is guaranteed up to €20k. I won't even mention the miserable interest rates. If you think their safe then read this article.

A6) Finally there is the cash under then matress option. Zero interest and zero guarantees. So unless you live in a fire station or have an armed security guard, I'd give this one a miss.

So there you have it! I'm leaving my cash where it is, in Northern Rock, with €40k in NIB & €20k in Rabobank, just in case it takes a few days to withdraw cash from NR. You get the best interest rates in the land and 100% capital guaranteed.

 [BTW - If you decide to open an account with Rabobank, Rabo have a refer a friend scheme which gives us both a free €20 opening bonus. So if anybody's opening a Rabobank account and wants a €20 bonus, PM me with your Firstname, Surname, E-mail address & Gender, and I'll request Rabo to issue you a unique bonus code direct via e-mail]  

Sleep tight!


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## runner (21 Sep 2007)

I didnt move mine from NR during the panic and I see less reason to do so now.


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## muesli (21 Sep 2007)

vjoc, Rabo are Dutch - National Irish Bank are Danish owned - they're a member of Danske Bank Group.


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## Remix (21 Sep 2007)

These deposit guarantees 

e.g.



> then you could always trust an Irish Bank, where your deposit is 90% guaranteed up to a maximum of €20k. To summarise, a maximum deposit of €22.2k is guaranteed up to €20k. I won't even mention the miserable interest rates. If you think their safe then read this article.


 
Are per depositor. So for joint accounts, the amount of money protected is doubled.

e.g. €44.4k in a joint account is guaranteed up to €40k.

Correct?


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## pat127 (21 Sep 2007)

*Re: Where to deposit the NR withdrawl?*



vjoc said:


> Q) Where to put your NR withdrawal?
> 
> A1) Straight back into NR. It's the safest bank in the country and it pay's you the best demand rate at 4.5%. Why? No other bank offer's an unlimited deposit guarantee underwritten by the Bank of England (BoE)!!!



I was talking to a rep in NR yesterday. He says that the BoE unlimited guarantee only applies to accounts set up before last Wed week if I understood what he said correctly. 

My account already was, so what he said wasn't of any particular significance to me. Can anyone confirm that he's right?


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## sweetp (21 Sep 2007)

Regarding the guarantee of €20,000 in Irish Banks, does this apply to each account in one such Bank. I propose opening three accounts, each for €20,000, in my own name, my husband's name and a joint one. Would all of these accounts be secure up to the €20,000 limit?


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## vjoc (21 Sep 2007)

*Where to deposit the NR withdrawl?*

Museli - Thanks for pointing out the Dutch/Danish typo. The depositor guarantee numbers are still accurate however for Rabo. 

On NIB I'm not sure which compensation scheme is applicable. I believe it's the Irish scheme, however the Danish scheme would be far more generous as it guarantees 100% of €40k (Kr 300k) approx, so an even better scheme than the Dutch one, but the rates on offer suck. Per the NIB site - _Danske Bank A/S is authorised by The Danish FSA, and is regulated by The Financial Regulator for business in Ireland_. So I imagaine it's the Irish scheme that applies - can anybody confirm?

Remix - On the joint account issue, I've heard different views. Some say the guarantee is doubled, some don't. IFSRA doesn't provide any clarification on their site. 

Pat127 - BoE has guaranteed:
All accounts existing at midnight on Wednesday, 19 September
* New deposits made into those existing accounts.
* Future interest payments and movement of funds between existing accounts.
* All accounts re-opened by customers who have previously asked us to close their account between Thursday, 13 September and Wednesday, 19 September. 
*Brand new accounts will not be covered by the guarantee*, but will be protected in the usual way by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.

Sweetp - I don't believe multiple accounts in the same name increase your protection. Both you and your husbands accounts qualify, but I'm unsure about the joint one also. As usual, IFSRA doesn't provide any clarification on their site.

Also note that most banks offering desposit rates above the ECB rate (NR/Rabo) have restrictions on how many accounts an individual can open. 

Just in case anybody missed the point - Ireland has the worst deposit compensation scheme in place, so I'd think twice before putting your life savings in an Irish Bank. You only have to read about Bertie to know that


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## Jethro Tull (21 Sep 2007)

NR have stated that the state guarantee only covers accounts that were already open BEFORE last wednesday. Can't find the article, I read it on RTE website.

EDIT: Its detailed here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/09/21/cnnrock121.xml


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## Sailor (21 Sep 2007)

I have left a good chunk in NR, and moved some to Anglo Irish at 4.5%, and NIB at 4.5%


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## euroDilbert (22 Sep 2007)

Details are on the NR UK website [broken link removed]


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## lukegriffen (22 Sep 2007)

*Re: Where to deposit the NR withdrawl?*



vjoc said:


> Q) Where to put your NR withdrawal?
> A1) Straight back into NR. It's the safest bank in the country and it pay's you the best demand rate at 4.5%. Why? No other bank offer's an unlimited deposit guarantee underwritten by the Bank of England (BoE)!!!



Wasn't that guarantee just for the current crisis ?  I'm sure I heard Brian Cowen use that term.  I'm sure the Boe are not going to guarantee it ad infinitum.


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## vjoc (23 Sep 2007)

Per NR, BoE guarantee will remain in place during the current instability in the financial markets.

So good for the rest of this year anyway IMO!


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## vjoc (24 Sep 2007)

FYI - NIB have confirmed to me that their deposits are covered by the Danish compensation scheme (since 1/4/07).  This guarantees 100% of Kr300k / €40k approx, so an even better guarantee scheme than the Dutch one.

I still have a few Rabo refer a friend invitations left if anybody's opening a Rabobank account and wants a €20 bonus.  You'll need to PM me with your Firstname, Surname, E-mail address & Gender, before Rabo will issue bonus code direct to you.


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## eileen alana (24 Sep 2007)

Thinking of transfering some of my NR monry to a first active e savings account, Does anyone know their loan to deposit ratio??


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## RSMike (24 Sep 2007)

eileen alana said:


> Thinking of transfering some of my NR monry to a first active e savings account, Does anyone know their loan to deposit ratio??



Eileen, Have you looked at the thread on first active:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=58818

I was also considering putting some into FA (in fact have already done the online application) but after reading the above thread, I am having second thoughts.

BTW, I also posted some details on the latest (Sep 20th) BOI DepositLine accounts at:



I have no affiliation to BOI, in fact I have been a big critic of them to date, ( I do my day to day banking with them), these latest offerings though seem to show the competition has made them wake up, at least a bit, and not least due to NR!

I have decided to put some of my NR money with BOI, at least short term.

Cheers


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## eileen alana (24 Sep 2007)

Yes, I have read the threads, its possible First Active are inundated with requests to open new accounts, however, no one seems to have written what their loan to deposit ratio is, sometihing I would want to know before I deposit my hard earned cash with them.  I think I will go with Anglo Irish, they look the safest bet and good interest rates as well.


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## RSMike (24 Sep 2007)

eileen alana said:


> Yes, I have read the threads, its possible First Active are inundated with requests to open new accounts, however, no one seems to have written what their loan to deposit ratio is, sometihing I would want to know before I deposit my hard earned cash with them.  I think I will go with Anglo Irish, they look the safest bet and good interest rates as well.



Eileen, no idea about the FA loan to deposit ratio, I did read on another thread that FA are now owned by Royal Bank of Scotland / Ulster Bank, so probably makes them reasonably safe?

i.e. another factor besides Credit ratings and loan to debt ratio's is the political element, i.e even with NR its pretty much confirmed that the political establishment in the UK will not let it go under or have any depositors lose a penny.

So besides complete economic meltdown ( in which case gold is probably safest, ), its difficult to contemplate polictical establishments in Ireland (North and South) & Scotland not bailing out bigger names like BOI, UB and RBOS.

But honestly, this is a bit of an esotheric discussion, things like poor customer service, lost cheques/paperwork etc. would worry me more.

Just checked out the Anglo-Irish site and agree with you, there rates and terms look good, Anyone had experience of their customer service?

Mike


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## eileen alana (24 Sep 2007)

My brother is with them and he hasn't had any problems with their customer care.  It's awful to have fustrating service, it makes my blood boil.  This shambles with NR has shaken up the whole concept of internet banking, I heard in the radio either today or yesterday that only a very small minority of Irish people do online banking and I think that after this latest fiasco they will be less of an uptake for it.  I can't wait for Friday to come, my 3 weeks notice period with Permanent TSB is up, I am going to withdraw my ssia savings because according to the indo a couple of weeks ago they are also  in a percarious state.


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## pat127 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: Where to deposit the NR withdrawl?*



vjoc said:


> Q) Where to put your NR withdrawal?
> 
> A1) Straight back into NR. It's the safest bank in the country and it pay's you the best demand rate at 4.5%. Why? No other bank offer's an unlimited deposit guarantee underwritten by the Bank of England (BoE)!!!



The guarantee lasts until the existing period of instability is over. I presume that means until the BoE decides it's over. Heard an official in NR this morning state that the guarantee will end when (not if!) NR is taken over. That's pretty obvious I suppose but it means that customers will then have to take a view on the financial stability of that organisation.


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## vjoc (26 Sep 2007)

I read in one Sunday paper that the BoE had guaranteed deposits in all English banks, and not just NR.  Can anybody confirm?

Given the events of the past two weeks, I'd be very careful where you put your money.  Rates and customer service are important, but I'd be more concered about capital guarantees in the current financial markets.

Working on the assumption that any bank can have a run or go under, the Irish banks have the worst capital guarantees.  90% of your deposit, subject to a max guarantee of €20k.  Also, note multiple/joint accounts are accumulated, so the maximum guaranteed per person is still only €20k.

An Post is state guaranteed, NIB comes under the Danish schemes, Rabo comes under the Dutch scheme & Northern Rock under the UK scheme - all of which offer slightly better capital guarantees than the Irish guarantee scheme.  

The Irish banks are the last place I'd put my cash at the moment.


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## pat127 (27 Sep 2007)

eileen alana said:


> My brother is with them and he hasn't had any problems with their customer care.  It's awful to have fustrating service, it makes my blood boil.  This shambles with NR has shaken up the whole concept of internet banking, I heard in the radio either today or yesterday that only a very small minority of Irish people do online banking and I think that after this latest fiasco they will be less of an uptake for it.  I can't wait for Friday to come, my 3 weeks notice period with Permanent TSB is up, I am going to withdraw my ssia savings because according to the indo a couple of weeks ago they are also  in a percarious state.



Is it fair I wonder to make a judgement about online banking in general because of NR's debacle? A Bank cannot reasonably be expected to install an infrastructure and staff up on the assumption that a crisis is going to occur, and have the  resources sitting there most of the time doing nothing. NR were under considerable pressure. Their Dublin staff were very heavily stretched (I happen to know one) and you can't pull untrained people in off the street in situations like that. Staff had to be brought in from the UK and I'm sure they had difficulty sparing them.

I've been using online banking for years without any complaints whatsoever. I'll guarantee that if there was a run on a non-online institution the situation with queuing and with settlements would be every bit as bad.


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## RSMike (27 Sep 2007)

vjoc said:


> I read in one Sunday paper that the BoE had guaranteed deposits in all English banks, and not just NR.  Can anybody confirm?
> 
> Given the events of the past two weeks, I'd be very careful where you put your money.  Rates and customer service are important, but I'd be more concered about capital guarantees in the current financial markets.
> 
> ...




Don't forget the Political element, How likely do you think it is that the Irish Government / Central Bank would let BOI or AIB go under, or have depositors lose a penny and potentially precipitate the collapse of the Irish financial system?

I guess AIB's faith could hinge on how favourable they are to Berties's latest recollectionss.....


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## RSMike (30 Sep 2007)

*Business Post?*

Is it my imagination or was the Business Post advertising this week that it would have a special this week on the safest place to invest.

I bought it this morning, but can't find find any article like that.

Was it another paper, or is it just me losing it


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## titchmurph (30 Sep 2007)

I was looking for it, too! Maybe the item on internet banking..a bit disappointing, I don't usually buy it. Advertising works!

Titch


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## gonk (30 Sep 2007)

*Re: Business Post?*



RSMike said:


> Is it my imagination or was the Business Post advertising this week that it would have a special this week on the safest place to invest.
> 
> I bought it this morning, but can't find find any article like that.
> 
> Was it another paper, or is it just me losing it


 
Maybe this?

[broken link removed]

_Northern Rockers go for gold _

_30 September 2007 By Richard Curran_

_Some beleaguered Northern Rock customers who withdrew their savings used the money to buy gold in search of old fashioned stability. _

_Dublin-based broker Gold and Silver Investments said that some of its British customers had switched funds from Northern Rock to gold as the price of the precious metal hit a 28-year high last week._


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## oldtimer (30 Sep 2007)

Yes, I heard them advertise this also. Didn't buy the Business Post to-day - from previous experience have discovered their advertising flatters to deceive.


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## RSMike (1 Oct 2007)

titchmurph said:


> I was looking for it, too! Maybe the item on internet banking..a bit disappointing, I don't usually buy it. Advertising works!
> 
> Titch



Yes, they caught me this time,, but like oldtimer, I will be giving the BP a skip in future, Their "feature" on Internet banking was disappointing, just looked like a regurgitation of various banks marketing blurbs.

No real analysis of features etc.,


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## Scruffy Man (11 Sep 2008)

Hi,
Rather than start a new thread I have posed the question in this old thread even though the last entry was in Oct 07.
My question is where is where is the safest place to put cash on deposit with a decent interest rate, my priority is security and second is interest rate.
My guess WAS Rabobank as they have a AAA rating and my money would be guaranteed by the Dutch Deposit Guarantee Scheme for a max of €38K. For joint accounts held by two persons, this maximum amount applies for each of the joint accountholders.

But having done the research I think I am better off with Northern Rock....interest rate with their online account is 4.85% but the big thing here for me is the FULL deposit is guaranteed by the BoE.

To me this is a no brainer.....put the money in NR earn more interest than I would with one of the safest banks around (Rabo bank with its AAA rating) and have 100% of my funds guaranteed. Where’s the catch, am I missing something. 


Very much appreciate any feedback as I have spent the last 3 days reading all the associated threads and getting a better understanding of all this but in no way an expert.

Thanks.


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## oldtimer (11 Sep 2008)

Isn't the interest rate 5%? Or do you intend drawing down the interest monthly - hence 4.85%. And, yes, Northern Rock appears to be the safest at the moment.


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## iggy (11 Sep 2008)

Northern Rock ,5% annual interest ,100% guaranteed by HM Government. Peace of mind and good interest too.


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