# 15c for flimsy plastic veggie bag.



## BOXtheFOX (16 Oct 2005)

I was in the Tesco Merrion Centre last week. I had purchased an uncooked chicken from the meat shelf. Have you ever noticed how slimy and damp these things are and how often they leave your hands damp when handled. Anyhow when I got to the checkout I was told by the lady that I could not have one of the small flimsy plastic bags to wrap the slimy thing in unless I paid 15c for it. I have to admit I threw a wobbly. Surely Tecso do not want us contaminating our other foodstuffs with their leaking poorly wrapped chickens? Should we be charged 15c for these? the checkout person insisted that as the chicken was already wrapped and not loose I had to pay 15c for the extra bag.


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## RainyDay (16 Oct 2005)

What was the chicken originally wrapped in? I'd have thought that the problem wasn't the charge for the bag per se, but the fact that the original wrapping necessitated a further bag.

What was the final outcome?


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## ClubMan (16 Oct 2005)

Aren't cooked chickens sold in foil lined paper bags to keep them warm. As such I reckon that the shop is under no obligation to provide a further plastic bag free of charge. Did you raise the matter with the store manager and, if so, what explanation did you get? Did you buy the plastic bag?


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## ajapale (16 Oct 2005)

Yes I agree with you - those uncooked chickens are often slimey and leaking. I think you should take this up with the supermarket and the makers. Clearly the goods are not packaged correctly.

The 15c bag tax is an entirely different matter and I agree with the checkout person. Pay the 15c bag tax and take the matter (of the poorly wrapped chicken) up with the retailer, manufacturer and the public health authorities.

aj


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## sherib (16 Oct 2005)

I regularly shop in Tesco (not Merrion) and have never been asked to pay 15c for those small flimsy plastic bags with handles - the ones left out for vegetables for which there is no charge. Some raw meats are very well packed whereas others are leaky - as BOXtheFOX described.

Even if there were a charge for these tiny plastic bags, it couldn't possibly be 15c for a tiny bag when they sell the much larger sized stronger ones for that price. Had it been me I would have spoken to the manager and if he/she didn't sort it out, I would have left the chicken behind! Next step would be to report the shop to the Food Safety Authority. The potential contamination of other food stuffs with Salmonella is a serious matter and contrary to basic hygiene. I'd be very surprized if Tesco would agree that charge should have been levied. BTW, did you pay it?


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## Joe1234 (16 Oct 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Aren't cooked chickens sold in foil lined paper bags to keep them warm. As such I reckon that the shop is under no obligation to provide a further plastic bag free of charge. Did you raise the matter with the store manager and, if so, what explanation did you get? Did you buy the plastic bag?




My reading of the original post was that it was an uncooked chicken.


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## ClubMan (16 Oct 2005)

My mistake - read it as a cooked chicken from the hot counter. I know that those foil line paper bags can get moist and slimy too.


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## zag (16 Oct 2005)

sherib - it is a levy on plastic bags, not a purchase price.  The levy does not vary depending on the size of the bag.  Having said that, there are specific exemptions to the levy for food hygiene areas, so the bag to contain the insufficiently wrapped raw chicken would have been exempt.

If the wrapping on the chicken was intact and was not leaking then the checkout person would have been correct to charge the levy, but if the wrapping was not intact and raw meat juices were leaking then it would have been warranted to waive the levy.

z


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## ClubMan (16 Oct 2005)

According to  it looks like the charge should have been waived in this case (my underlining):


> *Exemptions from the levy
> 
> *...
> 
> ...


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## sherib (17 Oct 2005)

I was about to post that a lot of shops must be breaking the law since they freely supply those small plastic bags for fruit, vegetables etc. ClubMan's link to OASIS has clarified that - spot on. Some of the better shops and even, surprizingly the Centras, provide paper bags which are preferable but must cost the shopkeeper more. Come to think of it, in any film from the US which has a shopping scene, the actor's groceries are always in paper bags, aren't they? Good strong ones too. 

Zag made the same observation but I don't think anyone was suggesting the need for an extra plastic bag had the raw chicken been properly sealed which many of them are not. In fact, since so many are damp and sticky, one would have to wonder if refrigeration is adequate.


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## Sue Ellen (17 Oct 2005)

As all delicatessen/meat counters have the option of wrapping meat in cling film IMHO it would have been a good idea on a point of principle to call her bluff and ask for her to get the chicken rewrapped instead of paying the unnecessary 15c charge. She would soon change her tune if the queue had to wait a further 5/10 mins for this to happen.


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## ClubMan (17 Oct 2005)

sherib said:
			
		

> Come to think of it, in any film from the US which has a shopping scene, the actor's groceries are always in paper bags, aren't they? Good strong ones too.


I think it depends on where you go. It's often _NY _based scenes in which you see the paper bags as far as I know. Not sure if this is because of legislation or convenience? I was in _SF _at the start of the year and, surprisingly given that this was _California _which has more environmentally friendly legislation than most other parts of the _USA _as far as I know, plastic bags were the norm in stores. At the time there were proposals to bring in some sort of plastic bag tax and the _TV _news included coverage of those crazy _Europeans _(i.e. the _French_!) carrying their reusable string bags and also of the successful _Irish _introduction of a more or less total ban on free plastic bags (the exemptions mentioned above excepted). The proposed ban/levy was more limited than our's and would have exempted many smaller family run "corner" stores. I don't know what happened in the meantime and haven't been back over again yet.



> Zag made the same observation but I don't think anyone was suggesting the need for an extra plastic bag had the raw chicken been properly sealed which many of them are not. In fact, since so many are damp and sticky, one would have to wonder if refrigeration is adequate.


It doesn't matter according to the _OASIS _link - even of the fresh chicken is already packed the store can legally supply a small plastic bag free of charge in which to store it.


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## BOXtheFOX (18 Oct 2005)

Thanks Clubman for the link. Yes I took it up with the customer services section of Tesco Merrion who initially said that we had to pay the 15c. She seemed unsure and rang for a manager to clarify, who said we didn't have to pay for the bag. It appears that my specific checkout assistant had decided to implement her own version of the rules and insist on 15c. While these chickens are prepacked, they are generally placed on shelves where other raw meats have been placed. Quite often the butcher wheels out trolley loads of the stuff piled high. These are often leaking on to each other. I don't know about you but I don't want any raw meat stuff or its packaging coming in contact with my other groceries. I always place my raw meats on the bottom shelf of my fridge and other stuff above it. If the other stuff has been cross contaminated then we could have a problem. After handling one of these chickens in the supermarket I can't wait to wash my hands. Even when touching my steering wheel I feel I might be contaminating my car etc...  Is it just me?


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## extopia (18 Oct 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I think it depends on where you go. It's often _NY _based scenes in which you see the paper bags as far as I know.



I've lived in 4 states and visited many others. The norm is to be offered "Paper or plastic sir?" (politely I might add) at the checkout.


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## ClubMan (18 Oct 2005)

I've been to _SF _and _Silicon Valley _several times in recent years and have neither seen nor been offered anything other than plastic. Surprising given that this is _CA_. I've also encountered rude sales assistants as it happens.


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## extopia (18 Oct 2005)

Interesting that San Francisco is considering a 17 cent tax on both plastic AND paper bags. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6870442/ and


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## ClubMan (18 Oct 2005)

Yes - that's the ban/tax that they were talking about back in February when I was over there.


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## Janet (18 Oct 2005)

BOXtheFOX said:
			
		

> While these chickens are prepacked, they are generally placed on shelves where other raw meats have been placed. Quite often the butcher wheels out trolley loads of the stuff piled high. These are often leaking on to each other. I don't know about you but I don't want any raw meat stuff or its packaging coming in contact with my other groceries. I always place my raw meats on the bottom shelf of my fridge and other stuff above it. If the other stuff has been cross contaminated then we could have a problem. After handling one of these chickens in the supermarket I can't wait to wash my hands. Even when touching my steering wheel I feel I might be contaminating my car etc...  Is it just me?



No - in fact this is a large part of the reason that I almost never buy meat in a supermarket these days.  I buy what meat I do eat directly from a good local butcher and I've cut down on my meat consumption to balance out the cost as I try to also choose organic and free range as much as possible.  I do sometimes buy rashers in an ordinary shop but they're not a patch on the ones I get in the butcher.


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## ClubMan (18 Oct 2005)

I agree with you on buying meat from a butcher rather than the supermarket as you get better value, choice, service and quality in my experience. However I don't buy into the organic hype to be honest and don't believe that any improvements in taste (if any - see the _Irish Times_ report a few weekends ago in which their taste test failed to distinguish between organic and mass produced in many cases) - are merited by the generally much higher prices charged. And of course there is no scientific proof that organic produce is necessarily safer or more nbutritious than mass produced fare. When I was a vegetarian for several years a couple of decades ago animal welfare was a bigger issue for me but I think that I was simply young(er), misguided and naive in those days.


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## joanmul (18 Oct 2005)

I thought a charge could only be applied by scanning the bag's bar code.   There is no bar code on the the piddly bags.


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## ClubMan (19 Oct 2005)

Not all shops use scanning technology and I don't believe that use of such equipment is mandated by the relevant legislation.


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## daltonr (21 Oct 2005)

Being offered Paper or Plastic was the Norm in DC when I used to go there about 10 years ago.

In Florida it's plastic in some stores, Paper in Others,  but Plastic would be in the majority.

I have been to the Supermarket a few times in Dublin and not been charged for a Plastic Bag.

-Rd


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