# Educate together V's National School



## NikkiT (25 Jan 2009)

Hi there, my daughter is due to start school this September and although I automatically put her name down in the nation school, I am intrigued about Educate together and would like to know more about them. Can anyone who has experience of them please let me know the pro's and cons (if any!). 

Thanks a mill in advance


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## remey (26 Jan 2009)

I dont know a whole lot to be honest but I dont think the children make their communion or confirmation. That would put me off personally.

Also are parents under a lot of pressure to fundraise to keep the school going?
Again, limited knowledge so apologoes if I'm wrong. May be worth looking into though?


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2009)

I think its a great idea because it does not practice religious indoctrination. 

There is quite an extensive thread over on boards.ie in the parenting section about the Educate Together schools.

The seem to have good reviews.

Its preferable in my opinion for school and church to be seperated, Educate Together teaches children about the concept of religion but doesnt practice religious instruction of a particular faith or state that 'this is what we believe and that means its right' i.e., no indoctrination.


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## NikkiT (26 Jan 2009)

Thanks Remey! I know that they dont make their communion etc but I think i read somewhere that they can do it after school hours. I would like her to make her communion and this would also be one of the cons for me - however in saying that the smaller numbers and the whole ethos of the Educate together systems sounds so much more personal than National schools. Im with you though as I dont know a whole lot about them so would love to hear from anyone who has first hand experience


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## NikkiT (26 Jan 2009)

Thanks truthseeker - will look up boards.ie now and see what they are all saying. personally it seems to me that people who are opposed to et schools just havent got all the facts. a friend of mine who is sending her son next year said the numbers are so low in our local et school because the parents are so unsure and not equipped with enough info to realise they have choices outside the national school system


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## NikkiT (26 Jan 2009)

HI GIRLS, GOT THIS REPLY FROM ANOTHER WEBSITE!

Educate Together schools are state primary schools. They are identical to other national schools in the curriculum they follow, the teachers are paid by the state etc.. The only difference between an ET school and any other national school is that religious doctrine is not taught as a school subject, prayers are not said in school etc...A core curriculum is taught whereby children learn about all world religions, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam etc....The Board of Management does not have any religious affiliation (for instance the local parish priest is usually the chairman of the board in a Catholic primary school). My kids go to an ET school and we are very pleased with it. In terms of your dd starting one in September, you may be too late now. Most of them are completely over subscribed (our has over 300 applications each year for 30 places). Call them first thing tomorrow and ask them.


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## Mpsox (26 Jan 2009)

Suggest you visit the school in question to see what it is like, sometimes the location of Educate Togeter schools can leave a bit to be desired, for example, the one in Carlow in located in the middle of a business park out of town
Also, if you want your child to have a religous education, you will have to make seperate arrangements for things like communion and confirmation, which will require you to give up some or your spare time for out of school hours classes


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## demoivre (26 Jan 2009)

remey said:


> I dont know a whole lot to be honest but I dont think the children make their communion or confirmation. That would put me off personally.



educatetogether schools are non denominational but kids can still make their communion on their own if they wish - I know a family who have done this with their kids.


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## gillarosa (26 Jan 2009)

Hi,
They are National Schools, but not under the managment of the diocesan control of a any religion, but rather under the management of ET, the real mantra of ET Schools is that they are 'Child Centered' and when I compare it to my own NS back in the dark ages and a Catholic NS we sent our Chiild to for a few years it certainly has a greater emphasis on the needs and the care of the Child, for example immediate and concrete response to any bullying that may take place between kids and a Students Union. The Curriculum followed is exactly that which is decided by the DofE but there are a whole realm of extra classes and talks and visits to the School which give Children a great deal of extra information on what is going on in the Country and their environment. The same grant per pupil are paid by the state. In regard to Parents fundraising, I don't know if it happens any more than any other School, maybe the difference is that the Parents have a greater say in the running of the school and the budgets for and expenditure of any extra funds are often decided by the Parents Committee so the aspect of Parental donations and fundraising seem to be an aspect but I know many Parents neither fundraise nor donate to the school my Child attends . They don't always have a lower Pupil-Teacher ratio, it would depend on the area and the demand for places which are very high in many areas they have opened in. The Children who will be making any Religious Sacrament have seperate classes after school for them with the local Church which would be organised by a Parents within the School, Children generally need to attend for at least 2 years prior to each in regard to Catholic Sacraments. There is generally a fee for these classes. 
My decision to pick our ET was based on ethos, but I have noticed that many Parents have sent their Children there as its close to their home and they often have a whine about the lack of Religious Education (but generally only on the days they have to drop and collect their Children to RE classes) I find it an excellent School.
Good luck with your decision.


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## Thirsty (26 Jan 2009)

> educate together schools are non denominational


Nope, they are Multi-denominational; there is a difference!


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## Cheeus (26 Jan 2009)

From observing friend's children in an ET school I get the impression that they are a little bit less formal than national schools. Teachers are called by their first names and there are no uniforms - don't know if all ET schools are the same or not?

With so many different nationalities and faiths represented in national schools now I think children benefit from diversity without having to go to an ET school. National schools maybe aren't so great for those who don't want any particular religious focus. ET schools certainly serve a purpose but I would prefer a school that taught & celebrated aspects of all faiths, but where Christmas, Easter, communion and confirmation were still central to the life of the school. I always thought I'd prefer and ET school but I think national schools have evolved over the years to be more rounded in many ways.

Where do gaelscoils fit in - are they considered national schools or are they private? Would they have an ET or national school ethos?


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## Mpsox (26 Jan 2009)

jaybird said:


> It depends on where you are, but for a lot of ET schools, your chances of getting a place at this late stage would be slim to nil! For some schools you need to put your name down for a place pretty much at birth, I know at our local ET I went to register for my eldest when he was just 3, 2 years away from starting school, and got a position of almost 200 on a list for 35 places. Registered his newborn brother on the same day, and was number 12 on the list for his year (2011).
> 
> So my point is that you might like to see the waiting lists for your local ET school before thinking too much about it.


 
Local ET in Carlow has 30 pupils from junior infants to 3rd class. Guess it varies depending where in the country you are


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## dereko1969 (26 Jan 2009)

Cheeus said:


> ET schools certainly serve a purpose but I would prefer a school that taught & celebrated aspects of all faiths, but where Christmas, Easter, communion and confirmation were still central to the life of the school. I always thought I'd prefer and ET school but I think national schools have evolved over the years to be more rounded in many ways.
> 
> Where do gaelscoils fit in - are they considered national schools or are they private? Would they have an ET or national school ethos?


 
you're looking for schools that celebrate aspects of all faiths but then want a central part of the life of the school to only reflect one particular faith? and then to exclude those of other or no faiths from this central aspect of the school?
all schools are funded through all our taxes, the fact that the state has abrogated it's responsibilities to introduce a secular fully state system has led to the stupid system we have now with religious sponsors of schools or through parent led sponsors such as educate together or gaelscoilleanna, they all teach the same curriculum. in my opinion, communion and confirmation (and all other religious instruction) should be done outside the school by the parents and their churches not sponsored by the state, there is a good argument that it violates the constitution.


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## demoivre (26 Jan 2009)

Kildrought said:


> Nope, they are Multi-denominational; there is a difference!



Indeed they are and indeed there is - a big difference !


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## Caveat (26 Jan 2009)

As a general but related point, I went to a mixed (i.e. COI/RC and male/female) school before 'educate together' existed (AFAIK)

For my parents it was simply an obvious, available option.

In retrospect, I think it was a great choice - to this day I encounter quite a few people with half baked, ill-informed ideas/prejudices about 'the other side'.  

We all learned to respect differences/similarities from an early stage.  It even became the subject of good natured slagging ("ahh yeah - typical protestant!" etc).

All very healthy and enlightening IMO.


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## michaelm (26 Jan 2009)

Enrollment policy may be a problem for those that have, or go on to have, a few kids.  My experience is that National Schools usually give preference to applicants who have siblings already at the school.  AFAIK ET's default policy gives no preference in relation to siblings, so you might get one child into the school but not another which could prove logistically problematic.  I suppose that an ET's School Board can chance such policies but it may be prudent to check in advance depending on your situation.


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## gabsdot (26 Jan 2009)

My son goes to an ET school and we are very happy with it. We are not Catholic so the multi denominational aspect was attractive to us. The school he goes to is quite hew, has small classes, young enthusiastic staff, lovely building. He's doing really well and he loves school.  
However there are good and not so good ET schools just as there are good and not so good Catholic schools, gael scoils or whatever.


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## j26 (26 Jan 2009)

That sounds like a great system of education.

I remember in school when the "Proddy" boy had to leave because we were having Christian Doctrine classes.  It was a bit cringeworthy every time.


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## kudos (26 Jan 2009)

michaelm said:


> Enrollment policy may be a problem for those that have, or go on to have, a few kids. My experience is that National Schools usually give preference to applicants who have siblings already at the school. AFAIK ET's default policy gives no preference in relation to siblings, so you might get one child into the school but not another which could prove logistically problematic. I suppose that an ET's School Board can chance such policies but it may be prudent to check in advance depending on your situation.


 

This is not the case with the educate together in Ranelagh hence it is so hard to get into it - siblings take up most of the places.


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## terrysgirl33 (27 Jan 2009)

All schools (I think) have to have a published enrolment policy, the ET near us does not give prefference to siblings, most NS do.  However, if you have one child in there and are happy with it, you will put down subsequent children at birth (especially if you are calling in and out with their older siblings!!) so it isn't a problem.  The people who live near me and had a problem are those who moved into the area when their child was 2 or 3, most schools had a long list at that stage.  The NS near us only takes names in the February before the kids are due to start school, so it isn't a problem in the NS.

FWIW, if you can, make an appointment and visit the school.  You can get a copy of the enrollment policy etc at the time, and get a feel for the school.  Our oldest is only in JI, but catholic religion classes start in senior infants, the classes are organised out of school time by the parents.  I want her to do the classes, but like the seperation between the classroom and religion.


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## Cheeus (27 Jan 2009)

dereko1969 said:


> you're looking for schools that celebrate aspects of all faiths but then want a central part of the life of the school to only reflect one particular faith? and then to exclude those of other or no faiths from this central aspect of the school?


 
Yes actually! It's about choice. I think that if there are adequate numbers of people who want to send their children to a catholic school, a protestant school, a muslim school that there should be 'national' schools to cover the demand. It's not about excluding people, if I chose to send my child to a muslim school I wouldn't consider them excluded because they didn't participate in every aspect.

That's why I think ET schools do serve a good purpose. But there should still be choice of a religious ethos in another school if the demand is there.
And yes, I would hope that even schools with their own religious ethos would celebrate aspects of other faiths.


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