# House in Wife's Name



## newborn (17 Mar 2012)

Hi 
The house is in my wifes name, done this way for stamp duty reasons at the time...........although I am paying the repayments.........i may end up with a judgement soon. Is the family home safe from an attaching judgement mortage ? My name is not on the title but can a bank infer a beneficial, although not legal interest by my making the repayments ? To be clear the house was bought when there was no financial pressure issues so no case can be made that I was trying to evade creditors at the time.............
Thanks to anyone who cares to comment............


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## Time (17 Mar 2012)

No. They cannot attach a judgement to a property that is not in your name or in a joint name.


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## sunhill (21 Mar 2012)

Time,

i dont if you have been reading my thread (Protecting the family home from investment properties - sunhill) but from what you are saying my family home which we are repaing in full and is in both our names is safe from the banks where the investment property loans are (which are different bank to the family home and my wife is not on any of the investment loans) in that they cant register a judgment against the family home. I would appreciate your comments

thanks


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## spiker (21 Mar 2012)

Newborn,

Time is correct.

Sunhill ,

As regards your own thread your family home is safe i am surprised that the very frequent contributors did not ask the pertinent question who signed and who is liable for the investment loans.I am also presuming that your wife gave no personal guarantee.


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## mf1 (21 Mar 2012)

spiker said:


> Newborn,
> 
> Time is correct.
> 
> ...



Nonsense. The family home is not "safe" ( whatever that means?) where a judgment mortgage attaches to an interest of one spouse. It means that the non - judgment spouse can protect a share in sale proceeds. Nothing more.

mf


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## newborn (21 Mar 2012)

mf1 said:


> Nonsense. The family home is not "safe" ( whatever that means?) where a judgment mortgage attaches to an interest of one spouse. It means that the non - judgment spouse can protect a share in sale proceeds. Nothing more.
> 
> mf


 
Yes but in this instance the title of the house is in the wifes name.....who is not a party to the loan from which the judgement has arisen.....the question is can the bank seek to declare an interest by me in the property and thus get a judgement mortgage on that interest by virtue of my having made all the repayments on the house in the wifes name ?


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## Time (21 Mar 2012)

No. Your name has to be on the deeds for them to register a JM.


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## spiker (22 Mar 2012)

As mf1 notes i am indeed a new poster but if he presumes that his over use of the word nonsense makes him the only legal expert worth listening to then i will bow out.I am in full agreement with TIME who clearly read all of newborns post.


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## itsallwrong (22 Mar 2012)

Another scenario.
I have a judgement against me. The order may or may not be brought to court in the future and turn into an installment order or whatever. 
Depends how I get on with the visa people and how nasty they want to be.  Despite trying to pay they still want blood from my stones.

The house is bought in my name and the loan is in my name.
Would it be prudent to put herself on the title to protect against a judgement mortgage on the house? 
The other aspects of the judgement don't bother me too much as they are hollow threats as far as i am concerned.  I don't have it guys. 
The only thing that will change that is the golden word called 'work'. See dictionary for meaning- I forgot what it is.

But there is something bold about the bank coming after my house for a small debt (€7500), which i am trying to pay.
The other threats of a Judgement (stubbs, prison, financial disclosure, sherrif) don't phase me as they won't get joy or the debt paid any sooner.
You just can't trust what the bank folk might try.  After all I can't pay the Visa bill because I am out of work which they caused.
Why on earth shouldn't they keep nailing my coffin shut? Sure it's only my life they flushed down the toilet, and not to be selfish - the countries.
Give me a break for jiggers sake!


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## Bronte (22 Mar 2012)

newborn said:


> Yes but in this instance the title of the house is in the wifes name.....who is not a party to the loan from which the judgement has arisen.....the question is can the bank seek to declare an interest by me in the property and thus get a judgement mortgage on that interest by virtue of my having made all the repayments on the house in the wifes name ?


 
So far this hasn't happened as far unless someone can outline a court case on this. 

But, look at it this way. Say you split up from your wife and she claimed ownership. Would you be able to go to court, prove you've been the only one contributing to the mortgage and therefore have an equitable interest in the property. There have been cases on this. In general, a judge will order ownership/rights to the proceeds of a sale/a share where one can prove they made the actual mortgage payments (or even contributed to the household in money terms (utility bills, groceries etc).

In the case you've outlined I don't know how a bank could go about proving you had some financial interest in the property. And if they can't then looks like they won't be able to get a judgment mortgage. But they will go after after an instalment order instead, and if you have an income you'll have to pay.

Whose name is the mortgage in?


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## Bronte (22 Mar 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> I have a judgement against me.
> The house is bought in my name and the loan is in my name.
> Would it be prudent to put herself on the title to protect against a judgement mortgage on the house?
> !


 
What judgment is it, a judgment that you owe the debt I presume.  You probably won't be able to put the house in your wife's name only as this would require the banks consent as you have a mortgage.  In any case you have no money and cannot afford to do this.  Is there even equity in the property. 

For a small debt of less than 10K one would presume they will go for an instalment order and not a judgment mortgage.


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## Time (22 Mar 2012)

They go for JMs as a matter of procedure now regardless of the debt size.


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## itsallwrong (22 Mar 2012)

Judgement is I owe them money which I never denied and I am trying to pay.

Without getting off topic, I think banks are very nervous about the upcoming insolvency bill - back to topic.

The bank has no problem putting her on the deeds. It's with seperate banks (phew).
for the sake of protecting my home, I would get money from somewhere from a mate or family to see it through. There is equity in the house, but not much.

Given the banks other options to recoup the money, Judgement mortgage would be the one with the most weight for most people.  A judgement is for life until its paid or settled.

So get her on the deeds asap?


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## Time (22 Mar 2012)

> A judgement is for life until its paid or settled.


No. Judgements only last for 12 years.


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## itsallwrong (22 Mar 2012)

Thanks time, my mistake - still too long for my liking.

They go for JM's as standard fare - do they always get them?

The main problem I have with a Judgement and any enforcement order that comes with it is that it's another nail in my financial coffin.
It's not the fact I owe the money it's that it's now a bigger mark against me.
it just digs the hole deeper for me with the chances of getting a restructure loan down the road when things pick up (and they will some day) gone. 
And it does have implications for some of the work I used to do and now can't.


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## 44brendan (22 Mar 2012)

There are a lot of responses here that are incorrect. OP please contact a solicitor on this issue. A JM can be attached against an interest in a property & this interest may not always be apparent from the title.


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## itsallwrong (22 Mar 2012)

44brendan, can you point out what is incorrect?


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## 44brendan (22 Mar 2012)

Briefly:- a judgement must be obtained before an instalment order can be sought. A judgement is just a legal re-cognition of a debt and can become statute barred after a 6 year period. If registered against a property the period is extended to 12 years. An JM can be registered against an interest in a property. this would not necessarily be evident from the TD's. 
I am not a solicitor and therefore it would be best to confirm any of the above information by referring to a solicitor.


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## Bronte (27 Mar 2012)

44brendan said:


> . An JM can be registered against an interest in a property. this would not necessarily be evident from the TD's.
> 
> .


 
What is TD, the title deeds?


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## itsallwrong (27 Mar 2012)

TD - Title deeds


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## Steve Thatcher (27 Mar 2012)

newborn said:


> Hi
> The house is in my wifes name, done this way for stamp duty reasons at the time...........although I am paying the repayments.........i may end up with a judgement soon. Is the family home safe from an attaching judgement mortage ? My name is not on the title but can a bank infer a beneficial, although not legal interest by my making the repayments ? To be clear the house was bought when there was no financial pressure issues so no case can be made that I was trying to evade creditors at the time.............
> Thanks to anyone who cares to comment............


 
Unless I have missed something ....wouldn't the mortgage here already be secured against the property.

Newborn are you trying to say that there is the family home which is just in your wife's name, but that you have a mortgage just in your name which is not currently being paid?
I would have thought that the bank could get a monetary judgement and also apply for possession of the property, as their charge document would entitle them to do that. The owner (your wife) whilst the owner is subject to the banks right to enforce its security. Brendan, that would be right under Irish law as well wouldn't it. Otherwise what is the point of the mortgage.#

Steve


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## 44brendan (27 Mar 2012)

Assumption is that the mortgage is in the names of MR & Mrs Newborn. Property in the name of Mrs Newborn only. 
The debt that Newborn is referring to is not the mortgage (assumption is that there is no issue with mortgage payments). Core question related to whether a judgement taken against Newborn could be registered as a JM against a property in the sole name of his wife!


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## Time (27 Mar 2012)

The land registry would refuse to accept such an application.


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## newborn (27 Mar 2012)

44brendan said:


> Assumption is that the mortgage is in the names of MR & Mrs Newborn. Property in the name of Mrs Newborn only.
> The debt that Newborn is referring to is not the mortgage (assumption is that there is no issue with mortgage payments). Core question related to whether a judgement taken against Newborn could be registered as a JM against a property in the sole name of his wife!


 
Yes this is the question.....my query really centred around whether the bank could infer some interest of mine in the home as I (not my wife) am paying the mortgage although her name solely is on the title and therefater attach the judgement mortgage. But from what i gather this would not seem possible for the Bank to do..............


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## Bronte (28 Mar 2012)

Newborn you cannot be sure of this unless you have some caselaw to back it up. There is such case law on people getting an equitable interest where they were neither on the deeds nor on the mortgage.  

 Certainly you cannot rely on a website such as AAM.  You'd want full legal advice.


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## Steve Thatcher (28 Mar 2012)

newborn said:


> Yes this is the question.....my query really centred around whether the bank could infer some interest of mine in the home as I (not my wife) am paying the mortgage although her name solely is on the title and therefater attach the judgement mortgage. But from what i gather this would not seem possible for the Bank to do..............


 
In the UK if you have a joint mortgage and you pay it, then you would be deemed to have a beneficial interest in the property. If you went bankrupt there would be a danger that the Official receiver would argue that you had entered into a transaction defrauding creditors. Thye may be successful. If I was acting for the creditor, I would seek to register the Judgment as I would argue that you had an interest in that property. There in is your dilemma, as we all have a different opinion. Time for paid for legal advice, (which you can sue on if wrong).


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## newborn (29 Mar 2012)

Steve Thatcher said:


> In the UK if you have a joint mortgage and you pay it, then you would be deemed to have a beneficial interest in the property. If you went bankrupt there would be a danger that the Official receiver would argue that you had entered into a transaction defrauding creditors. Thye may be successful. If I was acting for the creditor, I would seek to register the Judgment as I would argue that you had an interest in that property. There in is your dilemma, as we all have a different opinion. Time for paid for legal advice, (which you can sue on if wrong).


 
Thanks to all for their views.....it would appear legal advice with duty of care etc is in order.....
Re idea that some creditors were defrauded......given that there was no distress at the time of the mortgage being drawn down / house bought then my understanding is that this would be a difficult argument for a creditor to propose. Surely they would have to establish at what point in time financial distress began and perhaps mortgage payments after that point should have come to the creditor.......

Alleging that I have some beneficial interest in the property is all very well but surely a difficult thing to establish conclusively when faced with the bald fact that the legal interest in the house is not owned by me......


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