# Hybrids - good idea or no?



## conastatu (26 Dec 2007)

I'm thinking of buying a new car next year to replace my 8 year old, 150K, 1.4ltr, 5 door Nissan Almera. I fancy getting a hybrid, probably because I've fallen for the marketing eco-friendly hype more than anything else. Researching them, it looks like the only real choice I have (in the same range of size etc) is the Toyota Prius or the Honda Civic.

So:
(1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?
(2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?
(3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?
(4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?
(5) What sort of money am I likely to get for my own car? The guy who I get to service it tells me that the engine will easily do another 100K. The body is beginning to show a bit of wear though...interior squeaks and rattles, slowing automatic windows, one or two tiny signs of rust pitts in the the paintwork. Should I sell it privately or try to trade it?
(6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.

And finally
(7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal (I hate asking that one, but I really think that it's likely).


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## soy (27 Dec 2007)

If you are concerned with the environment, then you are probably better to get a small diesel car. When you factor in the additional costs and materials required to build these hybrids they are no better for the environment than normal cars. Also the economy for the latest diesel engines are just as good as the hybrids.

Independent mechanics would probably not be able to do much with these but then again neither of these cars would be expected to break down much so that may not matter.
I would say your almera is worth about 2k. Sell it privately.


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## Carolina (28 Dec 2007)

conastatu said:


> (1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?


a hyped product doesn't have to be bad. I am also thinking about buying a new hybrid so maybe we are both idiots.


> (2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?


The civic has slightly weaker acceleration, slightly worse fuel economy and slightly higer emissions. -slightly-


> (3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?


Both Honda and Toyota have 3 yr guarantees. Toyota has 8yrs guarantee on the hybrid parts. You're probably right though that you will have to pay maintenance at a main dealer.


> (4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?


Prius had its last major upgrade in 2004. Next one due 2009/2010. You should get around 20% off by buying a year old car. I want to buy a high spec model and it seems that the price of options is discounted very rapidly so I think I'll go for a 1-3 year old car.



> (6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.


people usually buy at the start of the year to improve residual values. This is a special year, though as the annual motor tax is going down in July from 313-100 per year and VRT rates are changing on hybrids although exact details have not yet been explained. I can't imagine that a lot of hybrid cars will be sold in the first half of 2008.



> (7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal


It is good to get a friend to negotiate on your behalf. Some people enjoy it - I know I do - and it's easier for some reason to negotiate for a third party. I don't think men are better at negotiating than women. I asked the local toyota dealer what his 'best price' was for a new car and he took 6% off right away. So I reckon you could get 9% off.

A lot of people will point out that a hybrid like a prius only has the same fuel efficiency as a micra or a yaris. This ignores that these cars are not in the same class (family vs supermini). A diesel will also give equivalent fuel efficiency but diesels have other emissions such as NOx and particulates (newer diesels are cleaner than before). Also diesels are noisy.

The prius can be driven on the battery alone if you stay below 45km/h and the battery is more than half charged. This gives a very silent ride in urban traffic for listening to music. Believe it or not this is a major selling point for me.


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## IFT (28 Dec 2007)

Your other choice is the new Mitsubishi i electric. Plug in and good for 93 miles and can charge the battery to 80% capacity in 20 minutes.

Not sure though when it is coming to these shores.


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## PetrolHead (3 Jan 2008)

Hybrid cars are an environmental catastrophe of grand proportions and should not be considered under any circumstances...

They are a sham and fraud and a way for car companies to make money and pander to the vainities of psuedo environmentalists...

Do any of you know how much carbon is thrown into the air in shipping each of these models over from Japan...

Last year's US Green car of the year was the Escalade Hybrid, a car (and I use that term loosely) that does 21mpg...

While concentrating on the latest VRT dodging power barge from Lexus or Mitsondoyota's latest marketing excercise we are ignoring modern technologies (fuel cell... alternative fuels etc) that really are the green alternative...


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## RainyDay (4 Jan 2008)

PetrolHead said:


> Do any of you know how much carbon is thrown into the air in shipping each of these models over from Japan...


Presumably, about the same carbon as shipping non-hybrid models from Japan?


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## PetrolHead (4 Jan 2008)

RainyDay said:


> Presumably, about the same carbon as shipping non-hybrid models from Japan?


 
Yes... exactly... which is why you should check to see where any car (and any product come to that) was manufactured and how it was transported...


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## Frank (4 Jan 2008)

Better to wait till after july when the new vrt and tax comes in and by a small to mid size diesel

corolla 
polo 
megane
306

all have mid size good diesels that are way ahead of any gimic hybrid.

The hybrids still have to carry extra kg's of batteries and motors to do the electric bit. They are not as good as the small diesel. Fact


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## Carolina (9 Jan 2008)

Frank said:


> corolla
> polo
> megane
> 306
> ...


All of these are smaller cars than the Prius and not directly comparable. For comparable cars see : http://www.euroncap.com/large_family_car.aspx

The Civic is in the same class as corolla, megane and 306. 



> The hybrids still have to carry extra kg's of batteries and motors to do the electric bit. They are not as good as the small diesel. Fact


A car in the same class as a prius such as an Avensis diesel 2.0 weighs more than a prius. I guess that's because an Avensis has a diesel engine that outweighs a 1.5l petrol engine plus batteries.

There are a lot of ways to compare cars and you'll come up with different answers depending on your requirements. It's not as simple as saying 'a diesel is better than a hybrid. Fact'.


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## crabbybear (17 Aug 2009)

I was thinking of getting a Honda civic hybrid but have heard if you need to replace the battery it's very costly? Anybody know how much ?  I know honda hybrid guarantee for 80k and 8 years. Are the costs of servicing more expensive than normal ?


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## niceoneted (17 Aug 2009)

Another point I read about the Hybrids is that if they are in a n accident you have to be very careful as the electric may not be cut off and there is a possibility of electrocution.


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## Latrade (17 Aug 2009)

There are a couple of problems with the overall "green" status of Hybrids. The most obvious one is the "MPG". You have to take all claims on MPG with a pinch of salt, but the initial claims of the hybirds were on very ideal conditions. Overall, if you do a mixture of city and inter county travel, a diesel is more economic on fuel.

The other aspect is the manufacturing. There is a greater "carbon footprint" at the moment for hybrids because some of the components (namely the battery, its fixings and some other features) have to be imported. Any country with a car manufacturing base can knock out a general combustion engine, so no need for importing. However, the battery and some other components are specialised and do.


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## offshore (18 Aug 2009)

Summary -  concerned with the environment= buy a small diesel car.


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## Purple (18 Aug 2009)

If you can stretch for it buy a newish BMW 320D. Over 40mpg (real, urban mpg), a fantastic car to drive and it doesn’t cost the earth to ship it here (nice pun, eh ) and you are keeping the money in your home market (the EU).


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## Frank (18 Aug 2009)

man this thread has some time span. 

Yeah an 08 3 series diesel 

lots of poke 
cheap road tax 
easy on juice
real green credentials.

beats a hybrid anyday you just need to be smug about genuinely green rather than following the rest of the prius sheep who buy and don't research the facts.


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## crabbybear (18 Aug 2009)

Like the look of the Honda civic Hybrids from an aesthetic point of view and want low cost motoring ie this car is 104euro to tax ( looking at buying 08 car)and was assuming inexpensive to run. If I go for diesel probably d4d corolla or 1.9 jetta.

Anybody have experience of Honda civic Hybrid from cost of servicing and any issues with the battery as they are supposedly expensive to replace ?


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## Chris (19 Aug 2009)

Volvo S40 1.6 Diesel does about 60 mpg Urban, same as Prius, but is a larger, more comfortable and safer car. Once you get into the extra-urban environment a mid-size Diesel will be considerably more fuel efficient than the Prius.


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## crabbybear (25 Aug 2009)

Anybody out there have Honda civic Hybrid ? Feedback welcome?


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## DaveyByrne (28 Aug 2009)

Don't buy a hybrid to save the planet - there are much better ways. For example, if you switch from eating meat to becoming a vegetarian, this will lessen your carbon footprint by the same amount as switching from a 3 litre SUV to riding a bicycle.

Driving a hybrid car is more a statement about the kind of person you want to be - rather than really doing somehing to save the planet.


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## Purple (28 Aug 2009)

DaveyByrne said:


> Don't buy a hybrid to save the planet - there are much better ways. For example, if you switch from eating meat to becoming a vegetarian, this will lessen your carbon footprint by the same amount as switching from a 3 litre SUV to riding a bicycle.
> 
> Driving a hybrid car is more a statement about the kind of person you want to be - rather than really doing somehing to save the planet.


Yea, but vegetarianism is counter-evolutionary, just get a European made car with an efficient diesel engine. 
BTW, could there be anything more sanctimonious than a vegetarian environmentalist?


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## csirl (28 Aug 2009)

> Yea, but vegetarianism is counter-evolutionary,


 
Remember one of the rules of evolution:

Carnivores evolve, vegetarians die out.


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## Diddles (28 Aug 2009)

niceoneted said:


> Another point I read about the Hybrids is that if they are in a n accident you have to be very careful as the electric may not be cut off and there is a possibility of electrocution.


 

Ted you surely cant be serious,can you?


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## tyoung (28 Aug 2009)

I have heard that, because of the greater co2 cost of producing diesel, that the co2 produced( from oil well to tailpipe )with diesel is not less than with petrol. Any scientists support or refute this view.
Totally seperately Vegetarians live longer. 
Anyway to claim
"Remember one of the rules of evolution:

Carnivores evolve, vegetarians die out." 
is silly. What would the carnivores eat?


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## Purple (28 Aug 2009)

tyoung said:


> I have heard that, because of the greater co2 cost of producing diesel, that the co2 produced( from oil well to tailpipe )with diesel is not less than with petrol.



I’m a bit sceptical about that claim as there is a vast difference between the hydrocarbons found in different oil deposits in different parts of the world. Diesel is refined at higher temperatures but that’s not a big deal when calculating total carbon emissions.


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## Caveat (28 Aug 2009)

Purple said:


> BTW, could there be anything more sanctimonious than a vegetarian environmentalist?


 
Yes, a vegetarian environmentalist who reads _The Guardian. _


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## PyritePete (28 Aug 2009)

anyone read last weeks Times motor supplement ? Featured the Lexus RX with annual car tax of 302 euro, for a 3.5 litre petrol/hybrid engine. Beats similarly sized diesels hands down. All Lexus' will be only be available in hybrid soon, dont know when... I was just told. Hybrid technology has moved on considerably since this thread started. I drive a diesel and the thought of a hybrid with serious poke, lower road tax, 6.3l per km economy etc is appealing not because of the emissions, I am not a tree hugger either. Not a fan of the Prius though. 

Each to their own...


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## ollie323 (1 Sep 2009)

PyritePete said:


> I drive a diesel and the thought of a hybrid with serious poke, lower road tax, 6.3l per km economy etc is appealing not because of the emissions, I am not a tree hugger either. Not a fan of the Prius though.
> 
> Each to their own...


You would have to drive like a complete nutter to get 6.3L/100k in a hybrid. Those things will get down to very low numbers if driven correctly. Try 2L/100k in a prius.
Having said that, i drive a diesel yaris and get 3.2L/100k per tank and it has plenty of torque so i wouldn't be too keen to replace it with a hybrid just yet. Those EV's are starting to look promising though and the batteries last about 7 to 10 years, according to a sunday times article i read. How recyclable are the batteries though?


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## PyritePete (1 Sep 2009)

not bad for a SUV all the same, given its weight and size etc. Big difference between a Yaris and an RX. WHat the article said (from memory) that there was enough torque in both electric motors to move you along without having to trouble the petrol engine. In the latest What Car mag, it pitted the RX against the BMW X5 and it found the RX a better all-round "car". Did you see Top Gear last sunday driving the electric motor - Insight. 200 miles between charges, I agree getting more and more promising.


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## ollie323 (2 Sep 2009)

I forgot it was an suv. My bad. I didn't see top gear last week but i'm hearing good things about these new hybrids. The funny thing about the hybrids up until now is that to get the best mileage out of them, you have to stay out of assist as much as possible. You basically don't use the electric part which is ironic to say the least. Go figure!


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## RedTop (2 Sep 2009)

I agree with previous posts regarding buying a small fuel-efficient Diesel.  The German car manufacturers have made significant advances in Diesel Technology.  They are Quieter, More Powerful and Cleaner than those of the previous generation.  I have seen reports of a BMW 520D being actually more fuel efficient than a Prius, if driven properly.  In your case, I would consider the smaller BMW320D (Diesel not Petrol), or if your budget does not allow for that, consider the VW Golf Diesel.


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## PyritePete (2 Sep 2009)

interesting to note that all the German car manufacturers who rubbished the petrol hybrids when they first appeared are now going to offer hybrids 

I think Peugeot are working on a diesel electric hybrid ?


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## DK123 (2 Jul 2014)

From a fuel efficency only point of view, does anyone know anything about the the new 2014 mercedes e class hybrid which quotes a fuel consumption of 68 mpg.all round.I am buying a new car to keep for a ten year period.My annual mileage is 10 k.Thanks.


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## suzie (2 Jul 2014)

Also try the motoring forum over on boards.ie. You'll get good feedback


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