# How much discount would you ask for?



## bambam (25 Aug 2008)

I understand that dealers in the UK are offering 10% discount on new cars - how much discount would you expect, if any, for cash buyer on a car such as BMW 5 series, here.  Would it be better to look for a higher spec???

Or will they tell you to get lost on both counts? Presumably it is better to look for a deal towards the end of 08 rather than the start 09????

Thanks 
Bambam


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## Bannockburn (25 Aug 2008)

You should be able to negotiate some discount on a 5-series.


    The BMW 520D SE saloon on-the-road list price is GBP £27,645. The Whatcar.com target price is GBP £25,260 (around 8-9% discount). If you’re buying new you should be able to buy ex-UK VAT – saves you having to reclaim the VAT back from Customs & Excise. The supplying dealer will probably require a copy of your passport and on registration in Ireland evidence that you have paid Irish VAT.


Car dealers prefer if you take out their finance as they get commission from the finance company. So offering ‘cash’ will not encourage them to give a larger discount


  The nearest BMW dealer to Holyhead is Ffordd Maelgwyn BMW, Tremarl Industrial Estate, Llandudno Junction, Conwy, North Wales LL31 9PL. T: +44 1492 562400


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## Iceman732 (25 Aug 2008)

Bannockburn said:


> You should be able to negotiate some discount on a 5-series.
> 
> 
> The BMW 520D SE saloon on-the-road list price is GBP £27,645. The Whatcar.com target price is GBP £25,260 (around 8-9% discount). If you’re buying new you should be able to buy ex-UK VAT – saves you having to reclaim the VAT back from Customs & Excise. The supplying dealer will probably require a copy of your passport and on registration in Ireland evidence that you have paid Irish VAT.
> ...



What on earth? Why would somebody elect to re-claim the UK VAT and pay Irish VAT on a vehicle? English VAT is 17.5% whereas Irish VAT is 21%. Under EU Legislation an unregistered person for VAT purposes pays VAT in the EU country you purchase the goods from, subject to a few exceptions. 

The bit of the post by Bannockburn about dealers not being encouraged by cash deals is also incorrect. A dealer naturally prefers to do a finance cash deal but should an individual pay with finance from elsewhere it won't make much difference to the discount. If your paying by cash you should expect to receive about a 10% discount but BMW dealers are particularly hard to get a  discount from.

Personally I'd recommend David Prentice BMW in Omagh, I've had a number of dealings with this firm but have no affiliation. Admittedly I mainly deal with the Mini side of the firm when I'm buying but I've bought a few BMW's off them, although I use the one salesperson for all my purchases. 

Best of luck with the purchase, could I recommend a BMW 320/325 D Coupe as opposed to a 5 Series!!


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## cloughy (25 Aug 2008)

the reason to get the UK vat reduction, is that you have to pay Vat anyway when importing new/nearly new car, so no point paying twice, and since for export UK dealer should facilitate. Otherwise you will pay UK price & Vat, VRT and Irish vat.


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## RS2K (25 Aug 2008)

Iceman732 said:


> What on earth? Why would somebody elect to re-claim the UK VAT and pay Irish VAT on a vehicle? English VAT is 17.5% whereas Irish VAT is 21%. Under EU Legislation an unregistered person for VAT purposes pays VAT in the EU country you purchase the goods from, subject to a few exceptions.



A new car (6 month & mileage rule notwithstanding) is liable to Irish VAT irrespective.


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## Frank Zappa (25 Aug 2008)

Don't argue with him.....he means it!


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## Bannockburn (25 Aug 2008)

> Why would somebody elect to re-claim the UK VAT and pay Irish VAT on a vehicle? English VAT is 17.5% whereas Irish VAT is 21%. Under EU Legislation an unregistered person for VAT purposes pays VAT in the EU country you purchase the goods from, subject to a few exceptions.
> 
> The bit of the post by Bannockburn about dealers not being encouraged by cash deals is also incorrect. A dealer naturally prefers to do a finance cash deal but should an individual pay with finance from elsewhere it won't make much difference to the discount. If your paying by cash you should expect to receive about a 10% discount but BMW dealers are particularly hard to get a discount from.



Thanks for the clarification Cloughy. My understanding also is that you have to pay VAT on new cars being imported into Ireland at 21% irrespective of whether VAT has been paid in another EU state. 

For further info on importing a new car and information on VAT see the thread www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=603419#post603419.

In relation to buying a car for ‘cash’, dealers make at least 3% to 4% on their finance. It doesn’t make business sense therefore that a dealer would provide the same discount for a ‘cash’ sale than a sale organised through their own finance. Why would a dealer ‘share’ more of their profit for a cash sale than a sale organised through their own finance?

A UK BMW dealer’s margin on a new car is around 15%. If they’re giving you a discount of 9%, there margin is then only 6%. The profit element from selling finance (3% to 4%) therefore is a huge part of their total profit. 

I negotiated a deal with a garage in the past buying through the dealer finance. After researching further I realised I could get a more competitive APR through a personal loan. The dealer’s response to me buying through a personal loan was that they couldn’t proceed with the deal on the same terms as they depended on selling the finance as there wasn’t enough of a margin from solely selling the car.


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## Iceman732 (25 Aug 2008)

cloughy said:


> the reason to get the UK vat reduction, is that you have to pay Vat anyway when importing new/nearly new car, so no point paying twice, and since for export UK dealer should facilitate. Otherwise you will pay UK price & Vat, VRT and Irish vat.



Pay UK VAT and Irish VAT.... I think somebody needs to look over there double taxation treaty and European free movement of goods! I've bought numerous vehicles from the UK.

Yes I'm aware of the 6 months rule, there's also a milage implications on that rule. There's certain ways around it though....


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## Speedwell (25 Aug 2008)

> iceman732
> Yes I'm aware of the 6 months rule, there's also a milage implications on that rule. There's certain ways around it though....




I seriously hope you are not suggesting clocking a car.  Because if you are then you are well out of order.


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## Iceman732 (25 Aug 2008)

Bannockburn said:


> Thanks for the clarification Cloughy. My understanding also is that you have to pay VAT on new cars being imported into Ireland at 21% irrespective of whether VAT has been paid in another EU state.
> 
> For further info on importing a new car and information on VAT see the thread www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=603419#post603419.
> 
> ...



The standard discount of cash payment is between 10%-12.5% on the market price. These percentages are from the SIMI website and also the amount that Revenue allow as a 'cash discount' on cars for Benefit In Kind purposes. Now naturally I know these are Irish discounts but the Uk discounts are going to be the relatively the same. 

So Bannockburn, say you were buying a car listed at £30,000 you're telling me that you'd be happy to walk away with £900 off the car? (I.e. 3%) Personally I'd feel robbed with only £900 off. 

For example I bought a top of the line Mini Cooper S listed at £16,500 last year and got the car for £15,250, along with 6 months Northern Irish Road Tax which unfortunately I wasn't able to use in the end!! I hadn't taken any finance with them paid by Sterling draft and that was that. I don't even know if uk dealers offer Irish residents finance. 

Enjoy your 3% discount!


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## Iceman732 (25 Aug 2008)

veron01 said:


> I seriously hope you are not suggesting clocking a car.  Because if you are then you are well out of order.



Clocking the car?? No! I buy from David Prentice because I want straight cars!

I'm talking about a VAT scheme!


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## Bannockburn (25 Aug 2008)

If it is possible to buy a new car from the UK and legally only pay VAT at 17.5% it would be helpful ‘Iceman 732’ if you could share how you go about it. We could then take advantage of not only a more competitive market and weak pound, but also a further 3.5% saving from paying only 17.5% VAT.


For info: If you’re importing a car into the UK you can elect to pay VAT in either the state the vehicle was supplied from or in the UK.


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## Bannockburn (25 Aug 2008)

The 9% figure quoted as a typical discount for a 5 series is taken from the UK magazine What Car.


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## Iceman732 (25 Aug 2008)

Bannockburn, 

Below is an extract on certain provisions which can be used to import a *new* car only paying UK VAT on it. Unfortunately I'm not going to give you any further information on how to import a NEW car, you can pay a Tax Consultant to research that for you. 

A new car means a car that has been in service for 6 months or less, or has been driven for 6,000 kilometres or less. 

Once the car you are purchasing is not classed as a new car (definition above) and you are an Irish Resident importing a car not classed as a new car from another EU you will not be liable to Irish VAT on the purchase, once you have paid the correct amount of VAT as applies in the other EU country. 

God and people seem to think VRT is the mind field!!

3. EFFECT OF PROVISIONS.

The provisions referred to in paragraph 1, provide for -

(a) exemption from import charges for certain goods temporarily imported for
certain specific purposes (see Sections II, III, V and VI);

(b) partial relief from customs duties in certain cases where the goods either do not
qualify for total relief or where all of the conditions necessary to qualify for total
relief are not fulfilled (see Section IV).

(c) relief from excise duty in the circumstances outlined in Section VII.

While these provisions mainly relate to goods temporarily imported with a view to
being re-exported, they also extend to certain goods imported for possible sale (see
Section III).

Glad to see your agreeing with the 9% discount now Bannockburn........


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## Bannockburn (26 Aug 2008)

Iceman732 





> Glad to see your agreeing with the 9% discount now Bannockburn........


Please see below for my first response to this thread

Bannockburn 





> The BMW 520D SE saloon on-the-road list price is GBP £27,645. The Whatcar.com target price is GBP £25,260 (around 8-9% discount).


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## bambam (23 Sep 2008)

OK, lot of different approaches defined here but mostly concentrating on importing a car from UK.  However, considering all the talk about low sales, tough times etc.. what kind of discounts are available from premium car dealers such as Audi, BMW, Mercedes in Ireland?


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## RS2K (24 Sep 2008)

Go ask them yourself.


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## bambam (27 Sep 2008)

Nice One Rs2K....very helpful


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## DeclanP (27 Sep 2008)

Best of luck with the purchase, could I recommend a BMW 320/325 D Coupe as opposed to a 5 Series!![/QUOTE]

Why?


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## Frank Zappa (28 Sep 2008)

The best way to check is to look North.

Try www.usedcarsni.com

The prices should be near enough what you would expect to pay.

Although perhaps England itself is cheaper.

But then you have to factor in ferry costs etc


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## z101 (29 Sep 2008)

Mainland UK cars are cheaper, have higher spec and are in better condition as a rule than NI.

It costs you nothing to ask for whatever discount you want. It's a matter of striking a deal. The car market is in doldrums at the moment everwhere. I would start with whatever discount you would hope for and then DOUBLE it at the very least when asking. He/she may laugh at it. But then only edge up. After he/she eventually says absolute bottom dollar priceis.. send him back to his sales manager one last time and give them an offer a couple of hundred off that, as long as they throw in a sat nav (or what ever) and they can take it or leave it as there are others who will want your money. Be prepared to walk away, as you can always walk back. Try to push their bluff as they need to shift cars.

Remember, see through the niceaties, you are there to make a deal not friends.


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