# 23 year old with 20K debt - running is only option left.



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

My net salary is €1750 (redundancies underway over next few months). Over the last 2-3 years I took out various loans, topped them up and maxed out my credit card twice (its limit is €5k so I spent 10k on it). I realise that I have made some very poor decisions. One credit union loan is €220 per month for 5 years (this loan was to pay off the credit card the first time). Another loan is with the bank for roughly €4k over 5 years which they agreed to extend to 7 years if I paid back €7,500 altogether and which I seriously despise them for agreeing to "help me" when in reality, they just lashed on the interest. That is roughly €90 per month. I have a GE money loan which was €180 per month over 3 years but which I asked them to reduce to €80 per month for 5 years. On top of that, I have the credit card bill of €5,000 which is maxed out over 5 months - they told me they could not help me until I went into arrears. I have never missed a payment because they always ended up taking the money out of my already overdrawn €500 limit bank account. I am due to pay them €220 this month as that brings me back under the €5,000 limit. After that, they will be looking for approximately €100 - €200 per month. I had to move out recently and my rent is €650 per month. Internet is €15 per month (not giving that up, I have a long distance relationship so no internet is a no go area). My car insurance is €80 per month. Petrol is very little. Please, if anyone is going to give me advice, do not tell me to move back home or get rid of the car. Moving back home is NOT an option for me for personal reasons and I would be lost without the car. I also have pets so cannot share with people, they are simply not interested so I live in a 1 bedroom apt on my own and that is not going to change. Getting rid of the pets is also out of the question, so if anyone has any "constructive advice" please don't even suggest such a thing. They are my pride and joy.

For the first time in my life I feel free and happy because I am renting this apartment. However, I simply cannot afford to live; because of the mountain of debt that has piled up over the last year or 2. When I get paid, I have to whip out maybe €200 or €300 to live on for the month. I have to leave a little bit in for when Eflow or the ESB need to take money out. Which means, you got it, I borrow from friends and family members, which means I must pay them back the following month. Bare in mind there is ususally €100 - €200 overdrawn from the previous month. Which means every single month, by the 2nd or 3rd week, my account has gone past the €500 overdraft limit and I am whacked on with fees. I cannot take money out of the ATM as it's past the overdrawn limit therefore if I need money, I'm stuck. I am sick and tired of living like this. I can't even afford a pair of shoes and it is embarassing. I have come to the conclusion that I am going to stop being such a good girl like I have been for the past few years, paying everything on time and barely having enough money to put food on the table and I am going to start "running". None of my creditors or my current bank know of my new address. I am going to start up a new bank account, get my wages put in that one and only inform the ESB and internet provider of my new address. Then perhaps in a year, I will move country. I am having nightmares, worried sick all the time, I feel like the best years of my life are being taken from me because of this debt. I am not afraid of being brought to court, thrown in jail or ordered to do community service. What I am afraid of is living like a complete and utter PLEB for 5 more years and never going on holiday or feeling financially "secure". I see other people with no kids my age get paid, pay some rent and the odd bill here and there and the rest they can keep in their purses or put into a savings account. I can only dream of such things. Does anyone have any advice or past experiences like this? My main problem is the mountain of debt I owe and only being given 5 years to pay it all off in time (apart from the bank loan which agreed to 7 years with a disgusting amount of interest) P.S When I rang MABS about 2 months ago, the woman said to me "I don't know what to say to you, you've been very foolish, I will send you out some leaflets, I really don't know what to say to you, you've made some very bad choices and there's nothing I can do to help you, sorry". So as you can all imagine, I'm not a huge fan of MABS. Some advice eh? No wonder people emigrate to get away from debt.


----------



## z107 (27 Jun 2010)

Do the money makeover so people can see where your money is going.
I would get rid of the credit card for a start.

One thing to consider is that the debt seems to be unsecured.


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> P.S When I rang MABS about 2 months ago, the woman said to me "I don't know what to say to you, you've been very foolish, I will send you out some leaflets, I really don't know what to say to you, you've made some very bad choices and there's nothing I can do to help you, sorry". So as you can all imagine, I'm not a huge fan of MABS. Some advice eh? No wonder people emigrate to get away from debt.


 
You HAVE made some very bad choices. *Stop kidding yourself*. What did you use all of the money for? You have obviously been living way beyond your means and you cannot continue to do so.

You are asking for advice and yet you don't want people to say anything that you don't want to hear. You have to take ownership of the problem. It is a situation of your own making and the first step to tackling it is to look at where (and why) you went wrong. You may love your pets but in your position you cannot afford to pay €650 a month in rent. You should be aiming for a shared place with a rent of €350 or so. That would give you another €300 per month in your pocket. Think about how much that could help you.

Your situation is not insurmountable but it does require hard work and a lot of tough love for yourself. You are only 23 and if you put your mind to it, and maybe swallow a few uncomfortable home truths, you can be debt free by the time you are 30. A lot of people would love to have that chance. 

Any bank you open an account with will check your credit history so the dealings with other banks cannot be hidden, so don't do anything rash.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Thanks umop. I cut up the credit card about 6 weeks ago. I never want another one again. I relied on it for so long whenI ran out of money and I was too generous with it too that I didn't see myself digging a deeper grave. I asked the mbna earlier on if they have their clients' pps numbers on file and he said "no, there is no need for us to know them" so yes, the fact that they are unsecured does work in my favour. All I am worried about is if the bank will have access to finding out details from my proposed new bank account with a different company. 

I am not sure how to do the moneymakover thing, I have seen other people do it, is there a link or is it just copy and paste?


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Noor I'm not kidding myself at all. I know I got myself into a hole, however, what's done is done and the mabs woman was extremely unhelpful and a typical example of how Irish society generally is, preaching and useless. She gets paid to give out that sort of "helpful advice" - very funny indeed, my cat could do a better job. Btw most women my age are not in debt, so saying "most people would love to be debt free by the time they are 30" will not wash with me, sorry.


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> *Btw most women my age are not in debt*, so saying "most people would love to be debt free by the time they are 30" will not wash with me, sorry.


 
Exactly. So why are you? You have not outlined why you have such a high level of personal debt at such a young age and nothing to show for it.


----------



## dmos87 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy, firstly welcome to AAM. I'm 23 myself and made some poor choices - see my very first thread here. This website and the people who contribute have helped me in heaps and bounds and now I am happy to say I am on the verge (literally!) of being debt free. It took 3 years of very hard work but I am finally here.

Your post is quite difficult to understand, can you make it a bit clearer? In the Money Makeover section there is a template set out. copy and paste and fill in your answers and details. The advice tends to come rolling in once this is done 

First thing is first. Pick up the credit card and write the details on a piece of paper. Place this detail somewhere for safekeeping (emergencys only) and then cut up the CC. People in debt cannot have credit cards - you have already said you max'd it out twice. The lesson was not learned the first time and its tough love time. Seriously, *CUT IT UP.*

Secondly - if you are not willing to move home, try and find a room share (I have pets and we have a tenant - not as hard to find as you might think), or cut back on extras (TV, BB, etc.) you need to find a part-time job on the side. ANYTHING will help for two reasons - 1, its all extra money and 2, if you are busy working you cannot spend. I currently have 3 jobs and spend very little because I am always on the go.

You are facing redundancy soon and you do not specify how long you are with the company - I imagine at 23 not very long. How do you expect to keep renting while paying back all these loans with no job? 

You say you feel the best years of your life are being taken from you because of your debt. Who has taken them? YOU HAVE. You lived beyond your means and at the moment its clear you are still doing this. 

One thing is for sure - this will all be a life lesson for you. It has been for me. I can only give you this advice because I have been where you are, thinking to myself its so unfair and blaming everyone I could but myself for my situation. You even blame the banks for the interest level on the loan - how do you think banks make money?? You knew the repercussions. Own up to your mistakes and I promise you everything will change. Running away will not help as these things tend to follow you wherever you go. You might forget that you applied for these loans while living at home - they will contact your family home if you ignore them. 

Are your family aware of your financial situation?

You came to this website for help and advice - you will get it but some responses may not be what you want to hear. Please do the Money Makeover section and we'll honestly try to help as best as we can.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

My ex boyfriend owes me a few grand so that threw me off, before that I was very good with money, it was accumulated over a number of years but I can't see me getting that back in this lifetime as he doesn't work and is an alco. I acquired alot of debt through compulsive spending when I went through a bad experience in my life and also a bit of cosmetic surgery. As well as that, I am in a long distance relationship and went to the uk a number of times last year, before I got the apartment he would come here and we would get a hotel for a couple of days, that obviously cost a couple of hundred at a time. It was too easy using the credit card.


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

dmos87 said:


> Cindy, firstly welcome to AAM. I'm 23 myself and made some poor choices - see my very first thread here. This website and the people who contribute have helped me in heaps and bounds and now I am happy to say I am on the verge (literally!) of being debt free. It took 3 years of very hard work but I am finally here.
> 
> Your post is quite difficult to understand, can you make it a bit clearer? In the Money Makeover section there is a template set out. copy and paste and fill in your answers and details. The advice tends to come rolling in once this is done
> 
> ...


 
dmos, that is a great post. You really seem to have your head screwed on. Well done! The advice about part-time work is good too. As you say, it is all money ... and nothing you can buy in a shop can ever beat the feeling of being debt-free. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

dmos - When I go to the moneymakeover section, there is no template, just threads and when I go into them I don't see a template, it's very annoying actually.

The difference between you and me dmos is this, I am in a long distance relationship. And I'm not choosing my finances over my boyfriend. Believe me, I have been spending the bare minimum for months! People try and give me advice and I say "yeah, did that, been there" - the truth of the matter is I have too much debt. And no amount of reusing tinfoil or cutting back on leisure activities (which I rarely do) will change that. My family are aware. There is nothing they can do. I don't come from a middleclass background.


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> I'm not choosing my finances over my boyfriend


 
What do you expect people to say to you on this thread when you are automatically ruling out many opportunities for getting out of debt?

Be honest, are the pets the real reason you don't want to share?


----------



## DrMoriarty (27 Jun 2010)

With all due respect, Cindy, I think you should reread and consider dmos's excellent advice a little more at length.

Btw, the "annoyingly" hidden information you want for the Money Makeover forum is in the (highlighted) *Key Post* Basic information required for this forum at the top of the page.


----------



## dmos87 (27 Jun 2010)

*"I don't come from a middle class backround"*

What kind of crap is that? Where you come from does not determine what you do. You think if you were priviledged in life you wouldnt be in debt? Get real. My family didnt give me one cent and I would never accept it even if they did - they only found out about my debt this year and still have no idea how large it actually was. And for the record we were dragged up in life by my mother from NOTHING.

No-one is asking you to choose your debt over your boyfriend. When he came over all those times, did he pay for the hotel, etc.? Or was it all you? I only ask because you mention paying for it on your CC. You cannot afford trips to see him (at the moment) so let him come to you.  

I will copy and past the money makeover form for you - please fill it out. There is always a way around it. Consolidation, etc. we can't advise you until its clear where your money is going.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

With all due respect Noor, I'm not asking for information on getting out of debt - I'm in too deep, understand? My cat got run over last week and the vet's bill cost me €185. I then had to see the doctor and get medication and that cost me €80. This resulted in me having to borrow from a friend, who I already owe. Get it? I'm not buying clothes, I'm not eating out all the time, my head is just above water. And I was already honest, people don't like sharing with cats. Besides, it's a 1 bedroom apt. Not a 2 bed apt. Anyway, my original question was, if there were any "runners" out there, how did it go for them? I can't live like this anymore. I've been doing the "right thing" by paying these establishments off every month religiously and I feel like I'm getting nowhere. I know if I run I can't apply for a loan/ mortgage for a good solid 12 years. But teh way I look at it is, I still wouldn't have any savings after 5 years to apply for a mortgate if I pay my debts off...I can't stand living like this for 5 more years. I want to know if I want to get more surgery, that I can just save x amount every month and eventually get it. I can't stand the thoughts of having to wait 5 years before being even able to start saving...it's just too daunting for me :-(


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Age: 23
   Spouse’s/Partner's age: N/A

   Annual gross income from employment or profession: €23000
   Annual gross income of spouse: N/A

   Type of employment: e.g. Civil Servant,  self-employed - ADMIN

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, YES
(b) saving?

   Rough estimate of value of home
   Amount outstanding on your mortgage: 
*What interest rate    are you paying? *N/A

   Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc - €22,000

   Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? No
   If not, what is the balance on your credit card? €5,120

   Savings and investments:

   Do you have a pension scheme? 

   Do you own any investment or other property? No

   Ages of children: None

   Life insurance: None


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you? I already made it clear.
*


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

No dmos, you didn't have as much debt as me. You also had a partner who lived in the same country as you and your rent was cheaper. Sorry, but we are not similar at all. No point in comparing.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

DrMoriarty I already have a parttime job and I've been looking into getting another one. I am a hard worker and believe that if people want money they have to go out and get it. Thanks anyway


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> I want to know if I want to get more surgery, that I can just save x amount every month and eventually get it.


 
Do you need this surgery? 

Your priorities are all wrong. 

Do you think maybe you would benefit from speaking to a counsellor? I don't mean just about money. There seems to be a lot going on in your head and it might help to talk to someone impartial.


----------



## dmos87 (27 Jun 2010)

Age: 
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 


Annual gross income from employment or profession: 
Annual gross income of spouse:


Type of employment: e.g. Civil Servant, self-employed 

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?

Rough estimate of value of home
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: 
*What interest rate are you paying? *

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc - Please break these down clearly:

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? 
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? 

Savings and investments:

Do you have a pension scheme? 

Do you own any investment or other property? 

Ages of children: 

Life insurance: 


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you? *


----------



## Noor77 (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> I am a hard worker and *believe that if people want money they have to go out and get it*. Thanks anyway


 
Yes, but getting it from the bank is what you have been doing.


----------



## DrMoriarty (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010, I'm going to move the details you've posted above to the Money makeover forum, and close this thread. Noone is going to offer you advice here about how to run away from your debts.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Noor I would like the surgery. No it's not "necessary" but if I am not happy with my physical appearance, I want to better it. Yes I've had counselling sessions. That's off topic though. Yes I went to the banks for money, like 99% of the population?!? But I am not a dole merchant, besides I'd go mad sitting at home everyday. I've been in my job 3 years. 

I'll fill that out now dmos, there was a bit missing from the one I copied.


----------



## feltox (27 Jun 2010)

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc - €22,000

Would you mind breaking up this figure between banks

Amount Outstanding
Number of months
Amount per month

It looks like 3 loans which are more than 22k?


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

DrMoriarty I've seen lots of discussions about people running away from their debt on here, it must have gone unnoticed to you and your crew before.


----------



## DrMoriarty (27 Jun 2010)

Your Money makeover thread is now here, Cindy2010. Better to post any changes there by editing the existing post.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

feltox

GE - €5,000 (roughly) - 5 years
Credit union €6,500 (roughly) - 5 years
Main bank - €4,000 roughly (paying back €7,500) - 7 years
mbna - €5,000 outstanding.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Why close this thread? I don't understand Dr. Just delete a post if you found it offensive, makes more sense.


----------



## DrMoriarty (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> DrMoriarty I've seen lots of discussions about people running away from their debt on here, it must have gone unnoticed to you and your crew before.


 I must have misread this bit, so:


Cindy2010 said:


> I'm not asking for information on getting out of debt - I'm in too deep, understand? [...] Anyway, my original question was, if there were any "runners" out there, how did it go for them? [...] I want to know if I want to get more surgery, [...] I can't stand the thoughts of having to wait 5 years before being even able to start saving...it's just too daunting for me :-(


 
I've seen plenty of these threads, too. Full of denial, self-pity and blaming others. I hope you'll take on board the constructive advice you're being offered, Cindy2010, and I wish you the best.


Cindy2010 said:


> Why close this thread? I don't understand Dr. Just delete a post if you found it offensive, makes more sense.


I just thought it might make it easier to keep the specific information and subsequent advice in one place, in the appropriate forum.


----------



## feltox (27 Jun 2010)

Cindy2010 said:


> DrMoriarty I've seen lots of discussions about people running away from their debt on here, it must have gone unnoticed to you and your crew before.


 
I dont think any one here wants to give advise of how you should run away from your debt.

People will give advise of maybe how to reform/refinacne your debt and make it managable going forward.


----------



## Cindy2010 (27 Jun 2010)

Doctor I'm not indenial??? If I was I wouldn't be here. I'm not blaming Joe Bloggs for my debt and as for self pity? God forbid I feel worried over this and respond to preaching "advice". Nobody told me anything here that I didn't already know....I guess some people just don't have all the answers, no matter how hard they try. ;-)


----------



## Sue Ellen (27 Jun 2010)

DrMoriarty said:


> Cindy2010, I'm going to move the details you've posted above to the Money makeover forum, and close this thread. Noone is going to offer you advice here about how to run away from your debts.



As the Doc has confirmed this thread needs to be closed off and any advice provided here instead.


----------

