# Should new houses get grants for energy efficiency like second hand houses?



## odyssey06 (5 Apr 2016)

At the moment there is a grant scheme for improving the BER on your existing home.
Should there be some scheme for moving to a new home that has a higher BER than your existing one?
Not sure... just throwing it out there. If higher spec homes are needed to support other commitments around energy use and emissions etc...


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Apr 2016)

That is an interesting idea. 

I argued that the specs are too high. But the energy specs are important. Maybe they should be grant aided? If they grant aid people who own their homes without mortgages, why not grant aid people to buy newly built energy efficient homes? 

Brendan


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## odyssey06 (5 Apr 2016)

Would need to make sure that the developers can't just use the grant as a way to increase the price of the house, knowing that the buyers will be getting X back, they load X onto the price.

Thinking about it more ... So I think the rebate would need to go to the developer, who then has to bring the asking price of the property down by X. The developer should be able to offset the price of specific, verifiable, high-spec BER qualifying features against VAT or council levies etc


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## Mrs Vimes (5 Apr 2016)

odyssey06 said:


> Would need to make sure that the developers can't just use the grant as a way to increase the price of the house, knowing that the buyers will be getting X back, they load X onto the price.
> 
> Thinking about it more ... So I think the rebate would need to go to the developer, who then has to bring the asking price of the property down by X. The developer should be able to offset the price of specific, verifiable, high-spec BER qualifying features against VAT or council levies etc




If the problem is that developers cannot make a profit because of the cost of building, then surely a grant which would allow them to charge more for completed houses will encourage building?

edit - see you came to the same conclusion.


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## Leo (5 Apr 2016)

odyssey06 said:


> At the moment there is a grant scheme for improving the BER on your existing home.
> Should there be some scheme for moving to a new home that has a higher BER than your existing one?



The purpose of that grant is to improve the quality of the housing stock in general. Facilitating people moving does nothing to achieve that. All it would likely do is increase the prices of efficient units by roughly the grant amount. The incentive to choose a better rated house when buying already exists in terms of lower running costs.


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## Leo (5 Apr 2016)

Mrs Vimes said:


> If the problem is that developers cannot make a profit because of the cost of building, then surely a grant which would allow them to charge more for completed houses will encourage building?



That wouldn't address the root cause of why building costs are so high here.


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## Leo (5 Apr 2016)

odyssey06 said:


> If higher spec new homes aren't being built because people can't afford them \ developers don't think they can make a profit on them, or we end up building lower spec houses (e.g. building seems to be drifting to where councils have lower standards e.g. away from Dublin DLR despite land being available) then the grant would help with that.



A grant like that would only serve to increase the price and line developers pockets, much like previous indirect attempts to make property more affordable. Remember the overnight queues outside housing developments? 

If high-spec isn't affordable, look at why that's the case and address some of those causes directly. Why for example does it cost more to build a house here than one of a higher standard in Germany?


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## odyssey06 (5 Apr 2016)

Leo said:


> A grant like that would only serve to increase the price and line developers pockets, much like previous indirect attempts to make property more affordable. Remember the overnight queues outside housing developments?
> If high-spec isn't affordable, look at why that's the case and address some of those causes directly. Why for example does it cost more to build a house here than one of a higher standard in Germany?



I think we have to face the possibility that there's a mismatch between high-spec being affordable and the Central Bank limits in Ireland - given what can realistically be done in the short to medium term. We're not going to turn into Germany in that timeframe, if ever.
Nowhere in anything I have said does it preclude taking any other action on bringing down the cost of building or increasing supply.

I suggested some sort of grant scheme, as a means of achieving the intention of permitting 90% deposits on new builds in effect but without increasing the risk to borrower or banks.

I don't think it's impossible to structure some sort of measure to offset the cost of high specs against government levies without it just being factored into a price increase. Now maybe it is or isn't a runner but what is clear is that you can't just lob on more and more specs to new builds without it increasing the price and affordability. Something has to give somewhere if new builds are to get to the level we need.


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