# Returned Irish citizen/US spouse fails habitual residency test for welfare



## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

Hi, everyone. 

I lost my job in the USA in March, and my husband, an Irish citizen who had been living in Northern Ireland for several years before he married me a year ago, moved us to Ireland to be near his family. We used up most of our savings to get here and we have been looking for work nonstop since we arrived. We have good skills and are employable. I have my GNIB card and we have PPSN numbers. We have rented a house and are permanent residents. We have no remaining ties to the US.

My husband believed that when we got here we could register for temporary assistance for a little while until we found work. Unfortunately we got turned down because they said he could not prove we were "habitual residents". I am a diabetic and have high blood pressure. We applied for medical cards but when we called for information, we were told we would not qualify unless we have an income or were on other benefits. There's nothing in their published guidelines about this!

We have only about two months rent and bills left in savings. My husband's family is not in a position to help us much (we really thought we could help them when we found work). I have about two months worth of medications left but I need to be checked and to have my blood pressure medication re-evaluated. I'm very concerned about my health and our future. 

Folks, we took a chance and we did our best based on the information we had. Chances are we could still find work in the next couple months, but I'm starting to get very anxious. We don't want to be on assistance at all unless we have to be, but it looks very much like we might have to, especially for my health issues. What can we do?


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## Bronte (28 Jul 2014)

Have you tried the citizen's advice service, maybe they can be of some help to you.  Looks like you need to pass the 'habitual residence' criteria.  Can you do that?


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

Bronte said:


> Have you tried the citizen's advice service, maybe they can be of some help to you.  Looks like you need to pass the 'habitual residence' criteria.  Can you do that?



I posted in my initial post, "Unfortunately we got turned down because they said he could not prove we were 'habitual residents'". 

We believe we have enough ties to Ireland to prove habitual residency. We have a year-long house lease, bills in our names, Irish bank accounts (without much money in them, to be sure), evidence of permanently leaving our US home (plane tickets, shipping documents, lease cancellation, etc.), evidence of family living in the same Irish county, Irish car registry and insurance paid for the whole year, and more. He can show a day-by-day log of his attempts to find work. He has registered with the job board. 

The caseworker flatly refused to consider our evidence and even repeatedly told my husband, a passport-holding Irish citizen, that he was ineligible to remain in Ireland more than three months. The refusal letter she sent said that we had failed to provide evidence that we actually did provide, misspelled his name, and gave the wrong PPS number. When we called to let them know, she reissued the same letter with his name and PPS number corrected, but no other changes.

The citizens' advice representative told us we should not even bother to apply as we would be sure to be turned down. I need to see the doctor quite urgently (my blood pressure is spiking) but I am afraid to go without a medical card in hand.


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## dereko1969 (28 Jul 2014)

Would it be worth your while seeing what benefits you can get in Northern Ireland if your husband was working there? Could he sign on there and then transfer his claim down here?


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

dereko1969 said:


> Would it be worth your while seeing what benefits you can get in Northern Ireland if your husband was working there? Could he sign on there and then transfer his claim down here?



I can't live in the UK for more than 6 months, because I am not an EU citizen and I do not have any right of residence. My husband would need to make almost 20K GBP to get me a spouse visa. He could go back to Northern Ireland if he had to, but I could not receive medical benefits, be eligible to work, or stay in the UK without permission from Immigration. 

I don't know about whether he could file a claim in Northern Ireland and get it transferred down here. On what basis could he make the claim, if he lives in the Republic?


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

By the way, thanks to those who have replied. I don't mean to sound like I am questioning everything you say. The situation is just extremely frustrating. Strictly speaking by EU rules this should not be happening, but Ireland and the UK are ignoring them.


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Jul 2014)

yankeewife said:


> We believe we have enough ties to Ireland to prove habitual residency. We have a year-long house lease, bills in our names, Irish bank accounts (without much money in them, to be sure), evidence of permanently leaving our US home (plane tickets, shipping documents, lease cancellation, etc.), evidence of family living in the same Irish county, Irish car registry and insurance paid for the whole year, and more. He can show a day-by-day log of his attempts to find work. He has registered with the job board.
> 
> The caseworker flatly refused to consider our evidence and even repeatedly told my husband, a passport-holding Irish citizen, that he was ineligible to remain in Ireland more than three months. The refusal letter she sent said that we had failed to provide evidence that we actually did provide, misspelled his name, and gave the wrong PPS number. When we called to let them know, she reissued the same letter with his name and PPS number corrected, but no other changes.




Isn't there an appeals process?


I presume you have looked at the Welfare website.  It seems to me that your husband should qualify. It strikes me as odd that Citizens Advice told you not to bother applying. 

Then read the Operational Guidelines 

Have you spoken to Safe Home Ltd 



> *Safe-Home Ltd. and returning Irish emigrants *
> 
> Arrangements were agreed with Safe-Home Ltd, a registered charity, to  assist with the difficulty experienced by a minority of returning Irish  emigrants in demonstrating their intention to live here permanently for  the purposes of satisfying the HRC.





> *7.2 - Length and purpose of any absence from Ireland *
> 
> Habitual residence may be lost where a person spends time away. This  may apply in the case of an Irish national who gains stable employment  abroad, or a non-Irish national who returns to his/her own country or  settles in a third country following a period of residence here. Status  as a former worker under EC law is lost when such a person leaves the  country for a significant period.
> Infrequent return visits or the purchase of a home abroad may point  to transfer of the main centre of interest to the other country. On the  other hand, established habitual residents of Ireland who have periods  of temporary or occasional absence may still be habitually resident  during such absences. If a person who is working abroad returns at  regular intervals to Ireland e.g. to visit family or because a home has  been retained here, it is possible that the main centre of interest  remains in Ireland. ( See also Appendix 1  re: international workers who are deemed to be habitually resident in  the country under whose social insurance scheme they have been retained,  even though they are temporarily working elsewhere.) However, it should  be borne in mind that the HRC can only be applied at the date of  application for the particular payment to which the condition applies ( see Part 6).
> ...


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## Time (28 Jul 2014)

> The caseworker flatly refused to consider our evidence and even repeatedly told my husband,* a passport-holding Irish citizen*, that he was *ineligible to remain in Ireland* more than three months.


That alone needs to be highlighted to the appeals service. That is ignorance of the highest order.


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

Thank you, Brendan. 

My husband has started the appeal process. Unfortunately it doesn't seem clear whether he can be considered a previous habitual resident since he has only resided just over the border in Northern Ireland and not in the Republic itself. He did retain his Northern Irish address while he was in the US, though. Since Northern Ireland is in the Common Travel Area, we thought it would count. If the caseworker doesn't even understand that he has full Irish citizenship, I'm not sure she would understand that, though. He has given up his former residence in Northern Ireland and even closed his bank account there to show that he is serious about moving here.

As far as the other requirements, we appear to satisfy everything except actual employment in the Republic, which we are trying hard to obtain. 

We thought it was odd that Citizens' Advice was so dismissive as well, and we have no idea why. We didn't arrive without any funds or ties at all. We're not refugees. We can't just turn around and return to the US now since I have no family or job there and we have no place to go. Hopefully the appeal will sort things out.

If you can think of anything specific we might do that has worked in other cases, I'd be grateful if you could let me know. A job offer wouldn't hurt. 

_EDIT: I noticed you posted about Safe Home after I posted this. Yes, we did actually engage with them. They sent us a packet explaining habitual residency and told us they were really only intended for senior citizens intending to retire in Ireland (we're not young, but we're not that old). They did not supply us with the letter saying we had engaged with them. I guess it's time to call them back._


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

Time, it was a hoot listening to him explain to the appeals officer that the caseworker was "trying to kick him out of the country". The caseworker had literally told him in so many words to go back to Northern Ireland, even though he explained that I could not live there. As for ineligibility to remain, it would be odd for me to receive a GNIB card with Stamp 4 if my Irish spouse wasn't himself allowed to stay, eh.


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## orka (28 Jul 2014)

yankeewife said:


> ..it doesn't seem clear whether he can be considered a previous habitual resident since he has only resided just over the border in Northern Ireland and not in the Republic itself.


Just to confirm - was your husband born and raised in the Republic?  What age was he when he left (fulltime residence in the Republic) and how long ago was that?


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

Orka, my husband has dual Irish/UK citizenship because he was born in Northern Ireland. He left for a few years during the worst of the Troubles (his area was hit particularly hard) to live in England. He returned about 10 years ago to care for his elderly mother in Northern Ireland. He left Northern Ireland to join me in the US (before that, we had a long-distance marriage) to see if he could find work. Then I lost my own job and we came back. He was only in the US temporarily. 

Since he was "in Ireland", and has been an Irish citizen from birth, we did not expect to run into so much trouble.

We understand that we don't have any National Insurance contributions. If we could find jobs, and we're trying, that would be a moot point. We aren't asking for any of the benefits that depend on NI contributions, because we understand we are not entitled.


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## orka (28 Jul 2014)

I think that's probably the issue - that your husband was never habitually resident in the Republic so isn't covered as a 'returning habitual resident'.  I think in the long quotes above (post #7 re. habitual residence), the 'State' refers to the Republic, not the whole island.  The only reference I could find (admittedly not a long time searching) with respect to NI residence was that if someone had lived in the common travel area (GB and NI) for two years immediately prior to moving to the Republic, they would probably qualify as habitually resident. But because, you and your husband are coming from outside the common travel area, it looks like you do unfortunately fail the habitual residence test in the Republic (whereas he would probably pass in NI).

It doesn't look like being from Northern Ireland helps with respect to habitual residency (I could be wrong because a lot of rules in the Republic make exceptions for NI) and welfare entitlements.


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## yankeewife (28 Jul 2014)

OK, that makes sense for him not to be considered as a "returning habitual resident". Admittedly that was kind of a long shot. We will have to see if we can prove habitual residency in the other ways. Thanks, wish us luck.


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## Brendan Burgess (28 Jul 2014)

Did you contact Safe Home? 

I would imagine that they would have plenty of experience in this particular area and they have been set up to help returning emigrants. 

Brendan


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## Guns N Roses (28 Jul 2014)

You can appeal the decision. However in my experience this can take up to 2 years to be heard. Ironically by the time the appeal is heard, then it's very likely it will rule in your favour as you will have demonstrated your habitual residence by still being in the country. 
In the meantime you should try to approach your local Department of Social Protection's representatives (formerly known as Community Welfare Officers (CWOs)) and try to apply for an Exceptional Needs Payment. 
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...fare_schemes/supplementary_welfare_allow.html


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## Jim2007 (28 Jul 2014)

yankeewife said:


> The situation is just extremely frustrating. Strictly speaking by EU rules this should not be happening, but Ireland and the UK are ignoring them.



While I appreciate your situation, I have to point out that that statement simply is not true.  The member states are fully entitled to take steps to ensure that people arriving on their shores do not promptly turn around and become a burden on the state.  And this is exactly what Ireland has done.

All EU citizens are required to meet the same habitual residence conditions regardless of whether they have an Irish passport or a passport from one of the other member states and this is how it should be under EU rules.

Having read the habitual residence conditions, I must say I fail to see how you could expect to qualify because as far as I understand from your information, your husband has never lived within the Irish State (as opposed to the island of Ireland) for any significant period of time up to now.  Nor for that matter has he lived in NI for the preceding two years.

I hope it works out for you because it is a terrible situation to be in, but am not at all optimistic.  Is there any chance you could get some kind of support from the US government or a US based support group, I wonder.


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## terrysgirl33 (29 Jul 2014)

Yankeewife, if you need medical attention please go to a doctor and worry about paying later.  See if you can get a recommendation from someone.  While you may have to pay the bill later, a sympathetic doctor may be able to monitor you and give you samples of medication to keep you going until you can pay.

Good luck with the job hunt!


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