# What are your thoughts on the MARP process?



## Wishes (24 Sep 2011)

For me it has been nothing short of a nightmare.  I have absolutely nothing positive to say about it.


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## CrazyOne (24 Sep 2011)

Still in the middle of it so hard to say but so far we've been in it since May and nothing to show for it - just more arrears adding up.
Submitted proposal - was rejected - given leave to appeal - we appealed but now that has been sent back to arrears support again - more waiting......


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## Wishes (25 Sep 2011)

Have you been asked for anything in return to gain acceptence by MARP ie pensions, policies or assets?

We were a cottage in the west in a will.  It has no roof, completely over grrown and would be best demolished but the bank have asked us to sign this over to them or sell it or they will not allow us entry to MARP.  We also have an apartment in the UK which they want us to sell.  It wont sell as it's in negative equity.

The bank have classed us as high risk so they want access to any assets we have.


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## bacchus (25 Sep 2011)

Wishes said:


> We were a cottage in the west in a will.  It has no roof, completely over grrown and would be best demolished but the bank have asked us to sign this over to them or sell it or they will not allow us entry to MARP.



May be derelicted but sit on a piece of land which has a value. 
IMO the bank's request is resonnable if you have difficulty repaying your mortgage and need help.


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## timmy (25 Sep 2011)

Useless,,,,asked for the SFS form,the assistant didnt know what i was on about,when i eventually got it i was told to "bear with me" as we went to fill out the form,"this is all new to me",,,,,unbelievable


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## hastalavista (26 Sep 2011)

Wishes said:


> Have you been asked for anything in return to gain acceptence by MARP ie pensions, policies or assets?
> 
> We were a cottage in the west in a will.  It has no roof, completely over grrown and would be best demolished but the bank have asked us to sign this over to them or sell it or they will not allow us entry to MARP.  We also have an apartment in the UK which they want us to sell.  It wont sell as it's in negative equity.
> 
> The bank have classed us as high risk so they want access to any assets we have.



The UK apt will sell, it just means that you will not clear the amounted owed on it.

It would be more useful for people offering advice here if there was some numbers provided to help with your query.
for example: 
what is the value/debt on the PDH and the apt?
What is the term and int rate on the finance?
Is it the same bank for both?

How far does the rental income on apt go to covering the full cost of ownership, not just debt : all expenses?

Your mindset seems to be based on trying to get a MARP based restructuring without inclusion of all your assets?

If your PDH is on the line what use is a derelict cottage? I appreciate it may have sentimental value but there is no room for that these days


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## ClubMan (28 Sep 2011)

Since the start of the year I have been helping a friend with getting control of their finances which includes restructuring the mortgage loan. They are currently in month 4 of a 6 month interest only period. As part of the approach to the lender (_BoI_) about this we sent in detailed financial (cashflow and asset/liability) details done up unilaterally and not on any _SFS _or anything like that. While I believe that _MARP _was in operation during this period nothing in the paperwork clarifies to me whether or not the loan restructuring has been done under _MARP_. Neither were we asked to fill in an _SFS _or any other _MARP _related documentation. Bottom line is that, regardless of whether or not this is being done under _MARP_, the 6 month interest only period has given some breathing space to start regaining control over the finances although there are still some unsecured (_CC _and _CU_) debts outstanding that are causing pressure so another 6 months interest only period is probably the least that will be needed to get sorted. The good news is that the situation does look fundamentally sustainable (albeit tight!) so it's not just buying time before an inevitable disaster. I have found that _BoI _can be difficult to deal with particularly because each and every department (mortgages, _CCs_, home insurance, mortgage protection life insurance, savings a/cs, current a/cs, online banking, local branch) are almost like separate operations meaning that it's difficult to get a holistic approach to all of the _BoI _dealings/financial products that this person has.


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## hastalavista (28 Sep 2011)

Clubman, for waht its worth
the THEORY is that if u use the MARP process that it is done by a separate department who will coordinate all the other bits within the same organization


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## ClubMan (28 Sep 2011)

I see - thanks for that. _BoI _never mentioned _MARP_. I wasn't aware of it at the time the initial approach was made either. With hindsight I would have expected _BoI _to mention it or maybe even be obliged to? I was aware of the code of conduct on mortgage arrears which I presume is related to (or underpins?) _MARP_? One way or another - _MARP _or not - this approach seems be yielding some breathing space so far at least. But maybe it would have been easier under _MARP _or something...


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## Wishes (28 Sep 2011)

I have no problem signing the cottage over but the problem lies with the UK apartment.  It is in thousands of euro of negative equity.  If I sell it at a loss I will be left with a personal loan to pay the shortfall.  I do not have the money to pay such a large debt and besides the invesment property provider does not see it feasable.  They are being very rational were as my main provider is not.

Our home provider is using this excuse to cause problems with MARP.  There is a large thread I started at the earlier part of the year; which you will see if you look under previous threads started by me.  It's all self explanitory.


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## hastalavista (28 Sep 2011)

Wishes said:


> I have no problem signing the cottage over but the problem lies with the UK apartment.  It is in thousands of euro of negative equity.  If I sell it at a loss I will be left with a personal loan to pay the shortfall.  I do not have the money to pay such a large debt and besides the invesment property provider does not see it feasable.  They are being very rational were as my main provider is not.
> 
> Our home provider is using this excuse to cause problems with MARP.  There is a large thread I started at the earlier part of the year; which you will see if you look under previous threads started by me.  It's all self explanitory.



Wishes: why should people here who have are giving of their time and advice/opinions for free be asked to first search for, and then plough through some other large thread of yours.
IMO this is disingenuous, particularly when you say its all self explanatory.

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder
, likewise self explanatory lies in the eyes of the 'explainer'.

I repeat what I wrote earlier, _with one addition
_
It would be more useful for people offering advice here if there was some numbers provided to help with your query.
for example: 
what is the value/debt on the PDH and the apt?
What is the term and int rate on the finance?
Is it the same bank for both?
_What currencies are you borrowed in?_

How far does the rental income on apt go to covering the full cost of ownership, not just debt : all expenses?

Your mindset seems to be based on trying to get a MARP based restructuring without inclusion of all your assets?

For what its worth the uk lender is being 'rationale' only because as long as they have u tied to an apt there is some hope, whereas if you end up with a personal loan it is both unsecured and probably has no hope of being repaid.

It is also the case that if banks actually crystalize neg. equity losses it puts pressure on the rest of the balance sheet.

Wake up and smell the roses, the uk lender has its self interest and self preservation at the center of its plans.

You say


> Our home provider is using this excuse to cause problems with MARP.



What excuse and in what way?


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## netz (30 Sep 2011)

Im currently on reduced payments - the first 6 months and second 6 month  reduction were granted through standard SFS. When we asked for an  extension, the MARP forms arrived. Absolute nightmare and it took 2  months to process then we were only granted a 3 month reduction, so have to  complete the process all over again. I photocopied the last set of  forms, so this time it should be a bit easier. I have filled in a  complaint to the financial ombudsman about the MARP process as I dont  think it is a suitable process for the average individual/family in  trouble with their mortgage. It is not straighforward, and in our own  particular situation, it is expensive as MARP insist on up to date  accounts/letters form accountant/original bank statements @ 4.50 per  page for husband and my own accounts and business accounts. Every 3  months this adds up to over €100 which would be better spent off  bills/debts. MARP is a bad idea, from a bad government in an attempt to  make it look like they are tackling the mortgage arrears crisis. Like  the other poster, our own situation will be dramatically improved within  12 months - car loan will be history. Other debts starting to come under  control thanks to the wonderful support of MABS. I can finally see  light ahead instead of a black pit. If anyone is having trouble with  MARP forms try phoning MABS for help. Other than that, if it is possible  at all, go to your local branch and insist on help filling out the  forms after all, they gave them to you. When this is done, copy them so  when you need to do it all again in 3 months time, only a small  adjustment to the original forms will be required, unless your  circumstances have changed dramatically. And complain - not only on  here, but to the authorities that may be able to change the process.


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## ClubMan (30 Sep 2011)

netz said:


> I have filled in a  complaint to the financial ombudsman about the MARP process as I dont  think it is a suitable process for the average individual/family in  trouble with their mortgage.


You may know this already but the ombudsman is not going to touch a complaint until the financial institution's own complaints process has been exhausted and you get a final response letter from them.


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## Kerrigan (1 Oct 2011)

I didn't know that Clubman. 

My sister is going through the process and having nothing but trouble. It took her mortgage company six months to decide whether she was part of marbs or not.  I understand they are run off their feet but six months is insane.

As regards to repossession - can the mortgage provider end the marp agreement at any time and seek a repo order?


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## hastalavista (2 Oct 2011)

Kerrigan said:


> I didn't know that Clubman.
> 
> As regards to repossession - can the mortgage provider end the marp agreement at any time and seek a repo order?



If u have an agreement in place then it stays in place for the duration unless the borrow misses all or part of 3 payments and a new deal not put in place
_"If you do not pay some or all of three mortgage payments and an alternative repayment arrangement has not been put in place,"
_
its on this page
http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/processes/consumer-protection-code/Pages/codes-of-conduct.aspx


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## Kerrigan (2 Oct 2011)

Thanks for clarifying and adding the link.

Just one more question please - let's say a six month agreement had been made between the bank and customer.  

The agreement is now up for renewal.

The customer is in limbo waiting to see if bank will renew or not.

In the interim, can the loan provider withdraw their assistance?


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## hastalavista (2 Oct 2011)

Kerrigan said:


> Thanks for clarifying and adding the link.
> 
> Just one more question please - let's say a six month agreement had been made between the bank and customer.
> 
> ...



While I cant be certain my opinion is no assuming you have submitted the revised/updated SFS to start the the negotiations for the renewal.

Once the paper work is with them the monkey is on their back, just make sure you have dates on all the paperwork


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## hastalavista (2 Oct 2011)

netz said:


> .......it is expensive as MARP insist on up to date  accounts/letters form accountant/original bank statements @ 4.50 per  page for husband and my own accounts and business accounts....



How does this issue arise with the bank statements, do you not get any or are you on e-banking and they wont accept the e-statements?

If you revert to printed statements from your bank are you saying your lender wont accept them.

This is a serious allegation so would welcome some clarification?


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## netz (9 Oct 2011)

Hi hastalavista - none of the institutions we are negotiating with for  restructured payments will accept e statements, they must be original  paper statemnets from the bank itself and as we are currently dealing  with 3 sets of lenders, this means 3 sets of bank statements, for all  accounts every 3 months for BOS, and every 6 months for other 2 lenders.  The bank will supply 1 paper statement per request, at no cost - any  reprints are 4.50 per page(for 3 accounts)  Photocopies of statements not accepted  either so if I send a set to say PTSB, I need to pay for a set to send  to BOS (MARP) and BOI. Sorry for confusion....


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## millieforbes (9 Oct 2011)

netz said:


> Hi hastalavista - none of the institutions we are negotiating with for  restructured payments will accept e statements, they must be original  paper statemnets from the bank itself and as we are currently dealing  with 3 sets of lenders, this means 3 sets of bank statements, for all  accounts every 3 months for BOS, and every 6 months for other 2 lenders.  The bank will supply 1 paper statement per request, at no cost - any  reprints are 4.50 per page(for 3 accounts)  Photocopies of statements not accepted  either so if I send a set to say PTSB, I need to pay for a set to send  to BOS (MARP) and BOI. Sorry for confusion....



If you had the time I would bring the copy statements to each lender and ask them to copy them, stamp and certify the copies and give you back the originals so you can take to the next bank


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2011)

hastalavista said:


> Clubman, for waht its worth
> the THEORY is that if u use the MARP process that it is done by a separate department who will coordinate all the other bits within the same organization


My friend needs to seek an extension (e.g. another 6 months) of the interest only repayment option and this time it looks like it does have to go via _MARP/SFS _etc. Maybe the process was too new when the original application went in or something (early 2011)?

Anyway - I gave a hand to fill in the forms and was a bit surprised by some of the details. For example total omission of _TRS _from the mortgage repayment details, suggestion that last three utility bills be summed and averaged which may give misleading results (e.g. biased low for summer months and high for winter months) etc.

Also _PTSB _were the only lender who seem to provide a useful _Excel _version of the form which is a lot easier to deal with than a paper one.

Finally - stuck in a two page covering/explanatory letter with additional details (and a "sales pitch" ) in case the form alone didn't capture these adequately...


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## Wishes (25 Oct 2011)

Clubman, The MARP/SFS is nonsence without the covering letter.  You did right by sending the letter with the MARP form, by doing this the bank will get a better understanding of the situation.

Does MARP ever cease or does a bank keep agreeing to it being renewed every six months?


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2011)

Wishes said:


> Does MARP ever cease or does a bank keep agreeing to it being renewed every six months?


Can't answer that myself but I would imagine not automatically and certainly not indefinitely - especially if no or little progress was being made on dealing with arrears (not an issue in my friend's case), other unsecured debts (this is an issue here) and eventually getting back to paying at least some of the capital down. In that case I presume that they'd have to make a judgement call on whether or not the mortgage in question was sustainable long term and if not take appropriate action up to and including repossession?


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## netz (27 Oct 2011)

Wishes said:


> Does MARP ever cease or does a bank keep agreeing to it being renewed every six months?




I'm in the MARP process, and with BOS Certus, it is only 3 months at a time - not 6. And they take 2 months to process forms so very frustrating process. Hard to understand the forms, and the cover letter is a must as it is a voice is a sea of figures!! 
Good luck with this.......


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## Peter54 (27 Oct 2011)

I am in the MARP process myself.  I don't see it lasting much longer as each time I send my application back, every three months, I see the attitude of the bank becoming less friendly each time.

I have no problem surrendering the property but this has not being made an option.


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2011)

Peter54 said:


> I have no problem surrendering the property but this has not being made an option.


Surely _MARP _is not a one way process and YOU can suggest this as an option if you feel that it may be the most pragmatic solution all round?


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## Peter54 (27 Oct 2011)

Hi Clubman, I have been wary to do so as the property is almost 200k of negative equity.

Do you think they would release me from the mortgage if I were to surrender the property?  

I have been apprehensive to ask them the question as I felt this could jeopardise my position in MARP??


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2011)

Peter54 said:


> Hi Clubman, I have been wary to do so as the property is almost 200k of negative equity.


But you just said you have "no problem" with surrendering it!?!?


> Do you think they would release me from the mortgage if I were to surrender the property?


I'd imagine they want to be repaid - if not in full then to the maximum extent. But what's possible is all down to negotiation I guess.


> I have been apprehensive to ask them the question as I felt this could jeopardise my position in MARP??


Maybe I'm a bit naive but I don't see how that could happen.


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## Peter54 (27 Oct 2011)

I will make an appointment to meet with them again.

I am currently paying a half interest only payment.


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## 44brendan (27 Oct 2011)

Peter54 said:


> I have no problem surrendering the property but this has not being made an option.


 
From the perspective of the Bank property surrender is an option. However it is only a realistic one if your own position is such that the alternative is an expensive Court process. All banks have an obligation to treat customers (even delinquent ones) with an appropriate level of professionalism and respect. I acknowledge that given some of the posts re the MARP process many banks are falling down on this requirement. This is more a result of incompetence and fear of making a mistake rather than a deliberate tactic.
If you are in employment and an SFS review of your financial position indicates that you have an ability to make some level of cpital repayments then there is no benefit to the Bank in accepting a surrender of your house and agreeing to let you walk away from the balance of the debt. If your financial position is such that you make make no capital and only a token interest contribution then you are in a stronger negotiating position. I.e. You can effectively tell the Bank that you will co-operate in a voluntary sale of the property provided that they accept this as a full settlement of your debt. They may well refuse but their options are limited. Court proceedings threat is an empty one if your financial position is effectively zero capacity to repay any debt so let them do their worst.


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## Peter54 (27 Oct 2011)

Thanks 44Brendan. 

I am employment but my wages is not large enough at present to cover full capital and interest payments.  

I have told the bank that I am actively seeking a second job.

I read in one of the Sunday newspapers some weeks ago that banks were not bothering seeking repossessions on properties that were paying 60% of the interest.  Is there any truth to this?


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2011)

Maybe significant that 60% sounds curiously close to the 66% of interest repayments mentioned by the _Deferred Interest Scheme_?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1117/arrears-business.html


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## Wishes (18 Nov 2011)

My marp process has come to an end.  The bank will not be renewing it.  They are filing for a repossession order.  Does anyone know when I will be before the courts if the order is filled this month?


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## kaplan (26 Nov 2011)

@ wishes - suggest you could consider contacting new beginnings here : http://www.newbeginning.ie/ - they should be able to answer your question and give you some comfort in how following a recent court ruling it may take years for your lender to obtain possession.


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## Wishes (26 Nov 2011)

Thanks for your response Kaplan.  I thought if they filed this month it would end up in court around January and I would have until March / April to vacate the premises.


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## Time (26 Nov 2011)

Could easily take years once it enters the courts system. In any event the final repossession order would be stayed for 6 months to a year.


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## Wishes (26 Nov 2011)

Thanks Time.  I have yet to formally receive a copy of the order but I did receive a letter that stated they would send a collections team to my home.


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## ClubMan (19 Dec 2011)

An update on my friend's situation ... _BoI _originally gave them 6 months interest only which seemed to be outside the scope of _MARP_ (e.g. no _SFS _etc.) for some reason (possibly because it was not fully up an running at the time or something?). They went back onto full capital + interest repayment for December while a follow up application for another 6 months interest only went in this time under _MARP _(i.e. with an _SFS _+ covering letter). They just came back with an affirmative response to this with no additional questioning/hassle. There are no arrears in this case and while the financial situation is tight it looks to me like it is ultimately sustainable especially once some additional unsecured debts are cleared with the aid of the interest only periods. A significant dent has already been put in one of these (_CC _balance down from €7K at the start of the year to €500 now).

One aspect of all of this was a bit confusing for them. The new interest only offer stated an estimated interest only repayment based on the prevailing rate applicable. However this is a 2 year fixed rate which ends next month. So a separate letter arrived outlining the new rates on offer which are significantly higher. In this case my friend assumed that the interest only offer repayment was what was signed up for. It's a pity that the two issues (_MARP _interest only applicable and end of fixed rate period and new rates on offer) were not dealt with together. The lender is not strictly at fault here but I can definitely see how the different letters might be misleading to some customers - especially those who are not that interested or bothered (or able?) to read and understand them in full.

Also - the old 2 year fixed rate was a fairly competitive 2.65% but the new rates on offer are significantly higher. Can't remember the details offhand but the interest only repayment (gross - i.e. ignoring _TRS_) is currently around €500 but will jump to €900 or more. And while I would normally have suggested that they take, say, another 2 year fixed rate the monthly premium over the _SVR _on offer is about €190 which seems a steep price to pay for fixed repayments.


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## justasking2 (19 Dec 2011)

With UB and was on iterest only for 1 year which ended this November. They sent me out MARP forms which i completed and return. I get a letter from them dated 28 Nov (about 4-5Weeks after I returned them ) advising that " important information was missing" I have been calling them non stop since and I am always told that they have to get my forms from admin and that they will call me back they have even gone as far as to give me a time at which they would call and still nothing. I really dont know what else to do. We are not in any arrears with them, unable to pay full mort as Husband had Tumour and is unable to work. I only Job share and have managed to get an extra days work per week so just managing to get by. only have 16 years left on a ,€160k mortgage and hoping that they will extened term by 6 years so that we can afford to pay full mortage.  It has come to the stage were I am going to have to let this months payment bounce in the hope that they will then contact me !!!


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## corkgirl1 (19 Dec 2011)

Hi justasking,

go into your local branch and ttry and get them to take on your case - the Collections and Recovery unit in Ulsterr Bank is completely unable to cope with the volume of requests they are supposed to deal with but pressure from local branch *may* get you somewhere.

Meantime, if you need to bounce the next payment, you can (apparently) demand that they backdate whatever arrangement you come to if the delay is on their side.


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## Alwyn (2 Jan 2012)

After a debtor is a year in MARP can the bank cease the resolution process and go to the courts?

Reason I ask is I have heard that the Irish banks pressorising distressed mortgage holders like the foreign institutions here are.

Is it a case of the Irish banks willing to work with the mortgage holder while the other will seek repossession? 

Are we looking at a scenario where mortgage holders with foreign banks will be ran out of their homes a lot quicker?


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## RichInSpirit (2 Jan 2012)

Wishes said:


> Thanks for your response Kaplan.  I thought if they filed this month it would end up in court around January and I would have until March / April to vacate the premises.



Hi Wishes, i feel for you in your situation.
I wouldn't give up the property without a fight.
At least go to court and have your say, it's everyone's right to have your say in court. If you can make any sort of proposal about keeping the property at an outcome affordable to yourself, the judge might side with you. 
New Beginnings are a crowd of solicitors that deal with these sort of cases but they might be snowed under at the moment. No harm in trying to get in contact with them though. 

Even failing to get an affordable solicitor, you could represent yourself. 
Also my accountant goes to court with clients and sometimes gets the right results.  
If you or no one else turns up in court on your behalf the judge will almost certainly decide against you. 
Whereas at the simplest if you turn up yourself you could just ask for a 6 month stay on any action against you because you are working on a plan to keep your house.


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