# Bidding war in a private sale - advice please...



## Joe5791 (12 Feb 2014)

Hi all,
I'd appreciate some solid advice from the knowledgeable folk on here!

My fiancee and I are interested in purchasing a home and we've really fallen for a particular house (our first mistake I guess!) in our home village. Asking price is €229k. The house is a private sale, no auctioneer, and has been on the market at least a year. Being a private sale, we're finding the negotiation / bidding process a little unnerving and stressful.

Between our first and second viewings, the vendor informed us an offer of €220k had been made. This surprised us a little as this bid appeared as we were just making it obvious we are interested.

So, following our 2nd viewing last weekend, we decided to go with a bid of €223k. The vendors promised to get back to us by lastnight, which they did, and they informed us the other party have now bid €225k.

So now we find ourselves in a "bidding war" which is the last thing we want. We have mortgage approval and we have decided that we can comfortably reach to €230k. Beyond that price, I feel that we'd be stretching ourselves beyond our comfort zone and I don't believe the house is worth any more than that anyway (a similar house in the same estate was auctioned last year for sub €200k).

So... what to do? Rather than going tit-for-tat and offering another 2k (up to 227k), I am tempted to go in and offer €230k and state it is our final offer, reiterating our serious interest in the house and that we are ready to close the sale now. I feel this would be a signal of serious intent and that the other bidder would have to come up quite a lot from his initial bid of €220k to beat us. If they do beat €230k, then so be it, I think we will bow out.
If we just bid €227k, my gut feeling is that the other bidder will go to the asking price or even to €230, so we'd be out of it then anyway...

Any advice / tips on this would be greatly appreciated...


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## Gerry Canning (12 Feb 2014)

Joe 5791.

Your thread reads like you are ready for plucking !, no disrespect intended.

1. Opposing bid arrives on a house for sale for a year just after your bid= stinks

2.Similar house sold in 2013 for sub k200 = have prices moved this much since then?

3. Seller has picked up your exuberance and senses your real interest.= dangerous.

4. Private sale for a year.= Could be one of these sellers that say my house is worth at least ^%%$$ and in reality they have no intention of taking market price.
5. Experience tells me your problem is not you , it is the seller.

6. Does the phantom-bidder actually exist?

7. Rarely tell a seller/auctionner your final bid,if you like the house  just genuinely bid and leave it.

Advice? Try not to clearly show your hand, try to treat it as a business purchase not a home purchase. 
Good luck .


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## Padraigb (12 Feb 2014)

I agree with Gerry.

Exercise restraint. Do not contact the seller. Wait it out. It's a near-certainty that the other bidder will evaporate. Make the vendor come back to you. Then I'd think of playing hardball: €220k.


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## ash26 (12 Feb 2014)

Joe 5791

Myself and my partner were in a similar situation to you last year only difference was it wasnt a private sale.

We found the 'perfect house' and of course we told this to the auctioneer on our first viewing = big mistake as she knew she had us!

We put an offer in there and then well under the asking price as this is what she advised. Forward on a few days the auctioneer rings to say that a cash buyer has but in a higher bid and off we went on a bidding war, it was probably the most stressful thing ever as you don't even know if they exist. In our case they did exist and they kept going up so we had to stop. We did lose the house and thought it was the end of the world but low and behold a few weeks later a better house came on the market and we got it, moved in last November and we couldnt be happier!

Hindsight is a great thing because looking back we were ready to pay over the asking price for the first house and in the end we got something better. I would recommend not rushing into anything take your time with the bidding and if its meant to be it will all work out.

Good Luck


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## Jane (12 Feb 2014)

Yep, I think you've hit the nail on the head Gerry. I think point 4 is highly likely here also.


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## PaddyW (12 Feb 2014)

For the love of God, do not get involved with this 'bidding war'. Tell the estate agent that you should not have bid that high and that your final offer is circa €200k or whatever you're happy with. Leave it at that, if the other buyer wants it so bad let them have it. You'll find a more suitable house at a lesser price I'm sure.


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## Joe5791 (12 Feb 2014)

Thanks very much everyone for the replies. Gerry, you make many similar points that friends / family have said to me too!

A few other points to note...
- The house was originally listed on Daft at €259. A few weeks later it was cut to today's asking of €229.

- Some of the pictures on Daft are very out of date which we think is odd. For example, in the pictures there's a cheap looking timber garden shed. Today there's a nice block-built shed. In other words, several "home improvements" have been made since the photos were taken. Odd?

- When we initially tried to declare interest we found it difficult to make contact with the vendor. Several unanswered phone calls. Eventually when we did make contact we felt that everything went on their terms... e.g. "I'll have to check if that suits" when we tried to schedule a viewing and generally not over-enthused to accommodate us on viewing times. Having said that when we did view it, the house was presented immaculately and the vendors were very pleasant people.

- All communication from the vendor (e.g. lastnight's news of the latest bid) has been via text messages. It's like trying to communicate with a potential new date  We feel that a phone call would be more appropriate in these circumstances!

My gut feeling is still to go with a final offer of €230k. If the other bidder exists, I feel it might spook them as we're making a bigger jump and exceeding the asking price. If they outbid us after that, then it's not for us. If the other bidder doesn't exist at all, I still would feel like we are getting a lovely house in an area we like for €230k, so I wouldn't necessarily feel "cheated".

Joe.


EDIT: An important point to make, one which has me somewhat persuaded that the other offer is actually genuine.
When she informed us of the €220k offer, it was like she was being very courteous to us, as she suggested in her text that maybe we'd want to cancel our 2nd viewing based on that news. This suggested to me that the other bidder is very serious and she was happy to risk telling us and completely put us off the process. Again, a bit strange I thought.


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## Dinny (12 Feb 2014)

I got advice from an estate agent friend of mine when bidding on a property to put in bids of €1000 at a time, he felt there was nothing to be gained by all psychology stuff. 

He was right I was thinking the same way you were trying to close out a deal going I was going to round up by 4K. I bid the 1K and the other buyer dropped out. saved me 3K


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## Billo (12 Feb 2014)

Joe5791 said:


> (a similar house in the same estate was auctioned last year for sub €200k).
> 
> ..



I would bid 210 and forget about it


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## NewEdition (12 Feb 2014)

Tell them you have another property that YOU are interested in - Offer them a take it or leave it figure and be prepared to shakeon it and get the holding deposit down asap. If your circumstances mean you can move the process quickly (mortgage approved, no chain etc), you may have the upper hand on a more complicated bidder


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## Joe5791 (12 Feb 2014)

Thanks all. 
Well we went and put a "final" offer of €230k. I think we took the vendor by surprise. She certainly seemed taken aback on the phone. 
We reiterated that we have finance in place, we are an uncomplicated sale, etc, and that we hoped that by going above the asking that we were in a good position to close the sale. We also said that if our offer is beaten, we are out. 

She promised to get back to us tomorrow...


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## niceoneted (12 Feb 2014)

I read the thread with interest and was thinking the advice was excellent and comin from people with first hand experience. I felt disappointed to see that the original poster didn't take any of it on board.


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## mercman (12 Feb 2014)

Joe, you haven't mentioned what part of the county you are in e.g. North, West, South or East, but if its a rural area the market hasn't budged. 

You might be mortgage approved but remember interest rates will go up sooner rather than later. Read the posts and work to them. Your heart is ruling your head.


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## Joe5791 (12 Feb 2014)

I'm in the West... The house in question is within a comfortable radius of Galway city. 

I have taken on board all the advice it is all greatly appreciated. My gut feeling does tell me that the other bidder(s) are not phantom. I may be completely naive but that's my honest feeling. 
But we've definitely made our final offer, a figure we feel comfortable to pay for the house. If it isn't enough we will let it pass.


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## mercman (12 Feb 2014)

I'm in the west as well. The market is on its knees apart from Galway City. 

An example. My daughter bought a house recently. Boom price --320k last years price 220k. Deal done at 153k


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## Bronte (13 Feb 2014)

Joe5791 said:


> My gut feeling is still to go with a final offer of €230k.


 
Interesting that you came on here for advice and at least 5 posters said you were being played, as did your friends and family and yet....

Which county is this home village in, and what size house and what size village ish.


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## PaddyBloggit (13 Feb 2014)

niceoneted said:


> I read the thread with interest and was thinking the advice was excellent and comin from people with first hand experience. I felt disappointed to see that the original poster didn't take any of it on board.



With all due respect Joe, it does look like you're being played and being played well at that.

Vendor wants to keep the cake and wants to eat it too and you are facilitating them.

Going by mercman's remarks you seem to be offering well over the odds ...

but 'tis your money.

Personally, I'd be telling the vendor to keep her house.

Don't let your heart rule this matter. Pull back, offer a lot less and walk away if necessary.

Lots of dream homes out there.

We're in the middle of a recession. In all seriousness don't pay over the odds for property.


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## Joe5791 (13 Feb 2014)

Thanks folks, again I appreciate the advice. With all the evidence I have to hand, I honesty do believe there is another bidder. If there isn't, well we've offered only just slightly over asking. At the end of the day if that offer succeeds, we'll be happy to have gotten the home for that price. If we are "outbid" again, we certainly will stick to our guns and not counter-bid. Then we will really find out if the other bidder exists or not...

Thanks again!


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## Jane (13 Feb 2014)

It's one of those things. If you are prepared to be able to walk away from something then you will always come out better off. Unfortunately for you, you really fell in love with this house and I honestly don't think anything anyone would have said here, would really have dissuaded you. 

Chances are they are pulling your leg, there might be a small chance someone else is in the mix but it seems (based on the length of time etc) that's unlikely. However, as I said, I think you really want this house and with that said, you are willing to pay over the odds.

If they do come back with more cock and bull, walk away. As Paddy said, lots of dream houses out there!


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## Dinny (13 Feb 2014)

Another issue you may need to consider is getting the house valued. If the house is valued by the bank at only 200K you will have issues in getting a mortgage if you are paying 230K.

Valuers are being very conservative at present.


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## Joe5791 (13 Feb 2014)

Dinny said:


> Another issue you may need to consider is getting the house valued. If the house is valued by the bank at only 200K you will have issues in getting a mortgage if you are paying 230K.
> 
> Valuers are being very conservative at present.



Doesn't seem to have been an issue is far. We have mortgage approval, the banks even checked out the house on Daft and didn't pass any remark!
Hasn't been formally valued though yet so who knows.


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## atjw (18 Feb 2014)

Hey there. This is the thread that finally made me sign up to the site to comment.

It's not too hard to figure out the house you mean, Joe5791.

I considered it also, looked into it but did not go so far as to go and view it.

The house has actually been for sale by owner since 2009.

From what you describe:
old photos, shock of the owner that you'd bid that high, etc,
it sounds like it's a forced sale. Maybe previous posters were right about the phantom bidder against you to prevent the sale of the house at all.

If you go onto Google Maps Streetview, I believe the image is still there showing the for sale sign outside when they passed a few years back.

Given that the one behind it sold last month for €190k and that has room to drive down the side of the house on a bigger site, I do believe that this one is overpriced, even though the fit out is very nice. It's nice but not €40k nice.

However, all these things aside, you do sound set on it. In fairness, if we found the right house we'd probably pay a bit more for it too (maybe not €40k though  ). So I wish you luck with it. You might update on if you get it or not.
Cheers.


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## Joe5791 (18 Feb 2014)

Sorry, forgot to update this since.

Our latest bid (€230k) was accepted on Friday! It's early days obviously... nothing signed or even close to it, just a verbal acceptance of offer.

atjw - it sounds like you might be talking about the same house alright. I do believe it has been for sale on and off for a few years. I think she took it off the market during the depths of the downturn and put it back on again last year.


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## Bronte (19 Feb 2014)

atjw said:


> It's not too hard to figure out the house you mean, Joe5791.
> 
> .


 
How on earth have you figured out which house it is?  Are you the owner


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## atjw (19 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> How on earth have you figured out which house it is?  Are you the owner



If it was me, I wouldn't sell it!

Unfortunately, the amount of nice houses in/around Galway in this price bracket is very limited at the moment. 

The Galway property market is very strange one right now. A big slowdown in houses coming on stream, despite many lying idle. Many of the houses that do come on sale are not great, to say the least. Also, many appear to be for sale, but not for sale really upon enquiry or offer.

Anyone watching the local market wouldn't find it too hard to determine what houses someone was talking about.

It wasn't too long ago that getting a mortgage was the tough part. Now it's finding and finalising a sale.

Best of luck, Joe5791!


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## Kerrigan (19 Feb 2014)

Joe, do keep this thread updated please.  I hope I am wrong but something smells funny and I hope you haven't been sold a red herring.

I am looking at investment property and all I am encountering is " bidding wars " and a boomtime feel about the place.  Lot's of " cash buyers " and " mortgage approved " people about or so we are being told.  I don't want the hassle of it!

Best of luck.


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## mercman (19 Feb 2014)

Kerrigan said:


> I am encountering is " bidding wars " and a boomtime feel about the place.



Did you ever feel that you are been fed a load of Porkys. If you're looking for something for next to nothing you not going to get it. And there aren't that many investors sniffing around apart from the Comer brothers.

Without a fluid banking system, this market is going nowhere very fast.


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## Kerrigan (20 Feb 2014)

Hi Mercman, on numerous times I've bowed out gracefully, having smelled porkys!  Joking aside, it is hard to know what to believe.  There is a mini bubble going on out there, not in South Dublin but the least desireable locations.  People seem to have no difficulty obtaining mortgages.  Where has this all come from?  I am aware of one couple who are fully (my nephew)  mortgage approved.  His and his better halfs job prospects are sketchy to say the least.   

It's all very strange though . . . only yesterday, I called an estate agent who didn't even bother take my name or telephone number. I was asked to just show up at the open viewing. Apparently, they had already got offers well above the asking price. I'm a cash buyer so I thought I might have got the red carpet treatment, no such luck!


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## mercman (20 Feb 2014)

There is an awful lot of old boy network in Galway and mates of mates. It really is very difficult here to see where the crack in the door really is. Saying all that wait for the market to go hiccup again and then we'll see who is smiling. With Banks not lending for  residential Investments and mortgage rates at a ridiculous level we're not that far from it now.


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## Wishes (20 Feb 2014)

+ 1 @ Mercman.

I am probably going to be blasted for my conspiracy theory; but where I am living there have been a few repossessions, keys handed back by occupiers rather than the banks chasing them.  


The properties have all been sold, quick smart, and all notably to mid to low income families, for sums well over the asking price.  


The people who previously lived in these properties had all paid high prices back in the boom but their subsequent’ are paying not much less than what they paid; which obviously leaves their predecessors with an obvious write off from their mortgage provider or a relatively small unsecured personal loan.  The banks are simply passing around the sword to fix what they see as a quick solution.  When this goes pear shaped we will all end up in a worse predicument then we currently are.


  As you say the banking system is not fluid but the enablers seem to be hyping this ridiculous property bubble i.e. the banks and auctioneers, the usual contenders.


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## mercman (20 Feb 2014)

Everybody is missing a very simple point. The Pillar Banks who were bailed out by the Irish people, get their funds at a rate of 0.25%. But for long term safe lending, i.e Mortgages their charge is roughly 5.5 %.

So they set the previous rules, they themselves broke the said rules, but have chosen to blame all and sundry for their reckless lending, at extortion rates. There will not be  proper increase in homes prices or demands unless and until a respectable lending rate is applied. 

But don't forget these current politicians in control, professed themselves as being for the people. What a heap of sordid crap !!


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## DerKaiser (20 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> How on earth have you figured out which house it is?


Go to Daft
Look for houses in Galway from €225 to €250k
Order by price
On page 3 you will find 4 houses for €229k
One of them has been reduced by €30k (from €259k) - Bingo!


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## arikv (21 Feb 2014)

DerKaiser said:


> Go to Daft
> Look for houses in Galway from €225 to €250k
> Order by price
> On page 3 you will find 4 houses for €229k
> One of them has been reduced by €30k (from €259k) - Bingo!



Nice house, If you'll Google number 50 (same address) you'll see that it's a slightly smaller size (20sqm), same number of bed property, sold for 190 in 11/2013


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## Bronte (21 Feb 2014)

mercman said:


> There is an awful lot of old boy network in Galway and mates of mates.


 
I don't agree with this.  Galway has expanded so dramatically that there isn't enough old boys. 

I see it's a house in Turloughmore, and that houses in that estate have been selling for a lot less that the asking price.  The last two sold for 150K and 162K and that's this year.  

Yes it looks a decent house, but the traffic going into Galway and around the city is absolutely chronic.  For that price, you mightn't get as new and large a house, but you'd be better off in 4 houses I've just seen in Daft, Wellpark,, Lurgan Park, Dun na Coirbe or Glenburren Park.  I would pick a house on the side of the city where you have to work.  Most people make the mistake in Galway of living the Salthill side, Knocknacarra etc.  

For the OP, Turloughmore is their home place, so that might be a factor in the decision.


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## Gerry Canning (21 Feb 2014)

Joe 5791; 
Bronte says similar sold in Turloughmore for k162.

Yet you have bid k230?

Suggest keep looking @ similar houses .
A difference of K68 sounds that something(s) are wrong.

See can you get similar for less ,you can then start to re-negotiate your offer.
Never forget nothing is done until it is signed for . And be very aware of Buyers Regret.

Wish you well.


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## Joe5791 (21 Feb 2014)

Gerry Canning said:


> Joe 5791;
> Bronte says similar sold in Turloughmore for k162.
> 
> Yet you have bid k230?
> ...



There was nothing similar sold for anything like €162k. The only one similar-ish to it sold in recent times (within the past year) was auctioned for €190k. I've seen that house up close and it isn't in as good condition nor as well finished, but I do accept you could do a lot for the €40k differential.

I would concur with many posters here that there just isn't the availability out there of good quality family homes in this price range. A lot of stuff out there is very rough to say the least. We aren't really in the market for a do-er upper and well finished well maintained houses are few and far between...


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## Bronte (21 Feb 2014)

Joe5791 said:


> There was nothing similar sold for anything like €162k.
> 
> . A lot of stuff out there is very rough to say the least.
> 
> We aren't really in the market for a do-er upper and well finished well maintained houses are few and far between...


 
The one sold for 190K at the O'Donnellan & Joyce Auction, about the only other auction house doing a decent business other than the really well knowns Allsops. 

When you say rough, what do you mean.  The house advertised looks lovely, but all that glitters is not gold.  I am very wary of the new houses that were built during the celtic tiger.  A lot of the older houses were better built, more solid, with decent gardens, solid walls, stairs you can actually get furniture up and attics that can be converted.  I agree from the pictures it looks turn key.  

How close is that estate to local amenities, shops, schools, restaurants, and what is the actual commute time to Galway?


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## Gerry Canning (21 Feb 2014)

Joe 5791; 

The one you are looking at and keen on is well finished and well maintained , yet on market for quite a while,.Could well be they require a premium to sell it.
If so ,and if you are happy that is great.

Please, keep your doubting thomas,s glasses on !and be cautious.
Wish you luck.


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## Joe5791 (21 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> The one sold for 190K at the O'Donnellan & Joyce Auction, about the only other auction house doing a decent business other than the really well knowns Allsops.
> 
> When you say rough, what do you mean.  The house advertised looks lovely, but all that glitters is not gold.  I am very wary of the new houses that were built during the celtic tiger.  A lot of the older houses were better built, more solid, with decent gardens, solid walls, stairs you can actually get furniture up and attics that can be converted.  I agree from the pictures it looks turn key.
> 
> How close is that estate to local amenities, shops, schools, restaurants, and what is the actual commute time to Galway?



It was built a little before the worst of the tiger years (early '00's) and I know the man who built them and he's got a great rep so I'd have no concerns there.

It's right next door to the local primary school and church and there's a decent shopping facility very close by too (including pharmacy, doctors, hair salon, etc).

Commute time to Galway - about 20 min outside of peak traffic but it can be much longer at the worst of the peak times... but as I said I'm from the area so the traffic problems around Galway are nothing new to me!!


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## mercman (21 Feb 2014)

OP, Comments are noted. 

You derived a post concerning this property and all and sundry have offered opinions. If you want the property, buy it, but as already stated (for all the correct reasons) be careful.

All including myself, wish you luck but you may be back requesting answers for a mistake.


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## Joe5791 (21 Feb 2014)

Thanks, I am taking the comments on board and appreciate all advice on offer. Nothing is signed off at all yet, so who knows what'll happen. I'll be careful, no question about that.


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## atjw (11 Apr 2014)

Just following up and wondering how things went here?


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## Joe5791 (14 Apr 2014)

atjw said:


> Just following up and wondering how things went here?



Sorry, only seeing this now as I don't visit very often.

It's still progressing. The contracts exchange is taking ages, much longer than any of us expected, due to delays with bank finding/releasing the deeds and other little issues. We're hoping to get it done this week at long last. We had the engineer survey done last week and that went fine.


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## atjw (19 Apr 2014)

Best of luck with it!


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## Joe5791 (26 May 2014)

Hi all,
A little update... we finally moved into our new home over the weekend. Delighted with it, the long wait was worth it!


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## atjw (27 May 2014)

Delighted for you Joe, all the best with it.


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## Gerry Canning (28 May 2014)

This thread would make good reading for those {rushing} to buy their dream home.
Joe5791 ,listened, worked and finally purchased with both eyes open.
Wish him well.


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## fuse (28 May 2014)

Congrats Joe. Only tuned into this thread now and it's interesting to be able to read back over the process and then to see that it all took 15months!


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## Joe5791 (28 May 2014)

fuse said:


> Congrats Joe. Only tuned into this thread now and it's interesting to be able to read back over the process and then to see that it all took 15months!



Not quite 15 months, no! We had our first viewing in late January of this year, so it was about 4 months overall. It would have been maybe a month sooner if the banks weren't so inefficient at releasing deeds and so on.

Thanks everyone for the good wishes!


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