# Reporting Landlord for tax evasion



## roytheboyo

Hi there,
Does anyone know how to go about reporting a landlord for tax evasion?  What is involved, is it dealt with, what happens?


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## Potblack

How do you know the Landlord is evading Tax?

If you have a problem with your landlord you can contact the Private Residential Tenancies Board. http://www.prtb.ie/ for advice and assistance


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## Purple

Call the Revenue commissioners office and tell them that X is renting a property to you, that you are paying Y per month and that you don't think he/she is paying tax. 
You will have their PPS number from your rent allowance form.


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## Potblack

> Call the Revenue commissioners office and tell them that X is renting a property to you, that you are paying Y per month and that you don't think he/she is paying tax.
> You will have their PPS number from your rent allowance form.


 
Purple, why would you do that????
Roytheboyo must have a reason for thinking his Landlord is evading Tax, (which I would not condone) but I think on the basis of such a vague question, advising someone to go to report their Landlord to the Revenue is extreme. 

My next door neighbour drives a "flash car", maybe he does not pay tax, should I ring the Revenue and complain. 

There must be a reason behind Roytheboyo's question, that if given here, could result in a more balanced and fair response.


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## Purple

Hi Potblack,
Roytheboyo asked how he would go about reporting his landlord for tax evasion. I was just answering the question. I didn't offer an opinion as to whether he should report him or not. (I'm starting to sound like ClubMan!).
If someone has good reason to suspect another of tax evasion then they should report him or her, just as they should if they suspect them of any other criminal activity.
The same should apply if your neighbour is a plumber, electrician, plasterer or painter etc and is doing nixers or if they are a teacher and are giving grinds or is an accountant or solicitor and is accepting part or full payment in cash or doing nixers.

I do take issue with the idea that tax evasion and general social irresponsibility is more common amongst poorer people.  But that's not at issue here and is a debate for Letting Off Steam.


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## zardebt

Purple said:
			
		

> general social irresponsibility is more common amongst poorer people..



this has got to be the most wackey statement I have read in a long time can you back this up ?? oh ja like the teacher accountants are poor I mean the more poorer you get the less tax you pay .....

But if you think  a lardlord is evading tax just ask him for his PPS number and if he doen't want to give it then just ring the revenue and inform them of this. 

They don't even need his PPS number they just need the address of the house.!!


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## delgirl

> How do you know the Landlord is evading Tax?
> 
> If you have a problem with your landlord you can contact the Private Residential Tenancies Board. http://www.prtb.ie/ for advice and assistance


 I agree with Potblack - best place to start is the PRTB - chances are if he is evading tax, then he won't have registered his property with the PRTB for fear of the information being passed on to Revenue.
roytheboyo - would be interested to know what your suspicions are based on.


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## roytheboyo

Thanks for all the replies.  He is not my landlord, a friend of mine has recently rented a flat and after renting been asked not to say anything to the revenue as the landlord got a disabled persons grant to convert his garage for his mother (who it seems is in a nursing home for the last number of years), and immediately upon conversion rented it out for 900 per month.  My friend discussed it with me and i undertook to find out what happens in such a scenario.


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## elcato

If your mate's landlord reads AAM then he could possibly twig this. You may want to edit the post slightly. If this is true then the landlord should be reported immediately. To be honest though, why would the landlord indulge such information ?


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## ClubMan

roytheboyo said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the replies. He is not my landlord, a friend of mine has recently rented a flat and after renting been asked not to say anything to the revenue as the landlord got a disabled persons grant to convert his garage for his mother (who it seems is in a nursing home for the last number of years), and immediately upon conversion rented it out for 900 per month. My friend discussed it with me and i undertook to find out what happens in such a scenario.



What about your mate's rent relief tax credit? Is he foregoing this just to facilitate the landlord's alleged tax evasion?


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## elcato

> What about your mate's rent relief tax credit? Is he foregoing this just to facilitate the landlord's alleged tax evasion?


Presumably the landlord has offered him a favourable rate to forego this or has agreed to pay this in lieu of rent per annum ?


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## ClubMan

Possibly - and maybe _roytheboyo _can confirm or deny this. However, in my experience, very many people are not aware of all of the tax credits and allowances to which they are entitled so maybe the tenant does not even know about this?


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## contemporary

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Possibly - and maybe _roytheboyo _can confirm or deny this. However, in my experience, very many people are not aware of all of the tax credits and allowances to which they are entitled so maybe the tenant does not even know about this?


 
I agree, my brother rents an apartment in town for the last few years, I eventually got him to fill in a tax return, however the agent wouldnt give him the PPS number of the landlord or her address details, so we just filled in her name and gave the address as the agents address, within 2 weeks he had a refund cheque from revenue and his TFA adjusted.


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## bacchus

This is none of your business if he is paying tax or not ....unless you are a tax man.
If whatever deal has been made for renting not good enough, well, i suggest you rent somewhere else.

Just my view point.....


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## delgirl

Aah, but it is everyone's business!  We all pay tax and this person has/intends to allegedly defraud you and me not once, but twice:

1.  Applying for and receiving a grant for a disabled person who does not live in the property;

2.  Asking the tenant to keep quiet about the rent to Revenue, indicating that he intends to evade his tax responsibilities.

The disabled person's grant rules state:  "The disabled person must use the house as their normal place of residence..."

roytheboyo's mate should move out and report this person to the Revenue and the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government who I believe are responsible for the issuance of disabled person's grants.


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## ClubMan

bacchus said:
			
		

> This is none of your business if he is paying tax or not


Not everybody would agree with you there. I certainly wouldn't.


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## Purple

Zardebt, you are quoting me out of context.


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## Potblack

Now that I understand the reason behind the question, I admit that your friend firstly needs decide if he wishes to continue to rent the property, as he is, by inertia, condoning the fraud.

Then explain why he is moving out to the Landlord and report him to the Revenue. Maybe the Landlord justs needs to understand, that this is not acceptable, and make his returns and settle affairs with the revenue.

Unfortunately the mind set of some people in this country is still the "brown envelope" approach.

I have been aware over the years of some people who as a result of a dispute with the landlord have made friviolous reports to the Revenue. However in this case, I would encourage you friend to report him. .


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## bacchus

Individuals do not enforce the tax rules. It is the responsability of the revenue and its employees to enforce these rules.  Sure, we are all losing out if they do not do their jobs properly, i.e. less money coming in the till from tax, then up the tax to cover for that loss of income. This is a long spiral..

Should i ring the guards & report everytime i see somebody breaking a red light or should a "system" be put in place to ensure the offender is prosecuted (i.e. more checks, more guards, video capture with automated processing, ... whatever)?

Same applies for tax & grant...

Everybody seems to suspect that everybody with a bit of money fiddles with tax, but suspicion is not good enough for reporting.
The other night, a friend said to me "well, i am going to kill her.....". So, should i call the police and report him ?

Suspicion leads to "minority report" (hope you have seen it)

Some people will always avoid tax no matter how much is invested in trying to catch them. 
But then the question of return on investment arise: should the revenue invest to catch "Mr Little Landlord" and should they focus on bigger fish?


There will always be scamers in this unperfect world, this is the oldest profession along with prosti.......

And jealousy will always drive some people mad .......


Well, cherio, i am off to the airport before you report me for tax evasion b'cos i drive a '87 Fiat Panda


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## Potblack

*Individuals do not enforce the tax rules. It is the responsability of the revenue and its employees to enforce these rules.*

I totally agree, it is up to the Revenue to impose any penalties on this individual. however if the people of this country did not expose those who break the law or flaunt the system, we would be in an even worse state:

*but suspicion is not good enough for reporting.*

and after renting been asked not to say anything to the revenue as the landlord got a disabled persons grant to convert his garage for his mother


I think when some one blatantly says do not report me - it is more than suspicion


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## ClubMan

bacchus said:
			
		

> Suspicion leads to "minority report" (hope you have seen it)


I haven't seen that film but I believe that it deals with punishing people in anticipation of the crimes that they will/might commit at some point in the future. I would argue that there's a clear difference between this sort of "prior restraint" and reporting genuine suspicions of criminal wrongdoing to the relevant authorities.


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## roytheboyo

Hi all,  Opened a bit of a can of worms here.  In relation to some of the questions raised above, the rent charged is possibly a little below the going rate for the area (by €30/month, max), but my friend had just reckoned it was a good deal and had to get somewhere fast.
In relation to rent tax credit, yes they have this from another rented house.  When i was renting i found that you apply for this tax credit and you still had it years later, even though you could have moved to ten different rented houses.
The landlord did not ask the tenant to forego this tax credit, or to give free/reduced rent etc. The landlord did say to the tenant that he had got a disabled persons grant and it is obvious from the apartment that it is for disabled/elderly people.


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## Dipole

Report the landlord.
If they are in receipt of Rental Income and declaring it then they have absolutely nothing to worry about.  If they aren't declaring it then they will have to and the tax burden for the rest of us is reduced accordingly.

Tax evasion is wrong!  If taxes are unjust or excessive, campaign to have them removed, don't evade the tax.

If the landlord is evading tax this is not a victimless crime - the tenant suffers, the exchequer suffers, the Landlords who comply with legislation and observe their responsibilities are disadvantaged.


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## dam099

Purple said:
			
		

> Call the Revenue commissioners office and tell them that X is renting a property to you, that you are paying Y per month and that you don't think he/she is paying tax.
> You will have their PPS number from your rent allowance form.


 
I doubt a landlord who was evading tax would give you his PPS number, failure to provide it on request is probably a strong indicator the landlord is not reporting the rental income. As others have mentioned the Revenue won't necessarily need the PPS number in any event just enough details to identify the person.


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