# After school study paid for - can school withhold facility?



## fender (7 May 2012)

My son is almost 19 and will be sitting his leaving cert in 4 weeks time.

He wants to maximize the time left to study and has decided to study at home.

He does after school study in the school 3 evenings a week and wants to continue this. We have paid €200 to the school for this facility.

The school, however, will not allow any student who does not attend school for the last 4 weeks to enter the school at all.

*Does the school have the right to do this as money has changed hands?*

Thanks


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## gabsdot (7 May 2012)

Seems a shame to fall out with the school so close to the end. Your son is an adult. I would suggest that he go and speak to his principle and outline the reasons why he feels he will get more study done at home. If he approaches it in a mature logical way I can't imagine the school will be awkward about it.


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## fender (7 May 2012)

Nobody has fallen out with the school. I am not looking for advice only the answer to the one questioned posed.


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## Spear (7 May 2012)

What if your son went in on one day within the four weeks?


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## lionstour (7 May 2012)

Your son would be better advised in going in to school for the next few weeks.  A significant amount of very imporant work is done within th next four weeks. A lot of students who "stay at home for the last month to study" end up doing brutal in the LC.  Usually the better students will keep going in as they realise they will get more of the teachers time dduring these weeks.  

Does the school have an offical policy on after school study ?  Get this policy. If it does not refer to witholding students rights to study in the circumstances you outline, explain to the principal that, as there is nothing on this policy document refering to this as a reson for exclusion, you feel your son is entitled to the study time.  Either that or a refund.


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## truthseeker (8 May 2012)

lionstour said:


> A significant amount of very imporant work is done within th next four weeks. A lot of students who "stay at home for the last month to study" end up doing brutal in the LC.  Usually the better students will keep going in as they realise they will get more of the teachers time dduring these weeks.



Interesting, on another thread its being discussed that LC students are without teachers as teachers are doing orals elsewhere and one of the comments that struck me was that at this stage all the work is done and its just revise revise revise. I personally dont know which is true.

OP - was there any kind of contract signed? Is there, as stated above, any kind of policy? What exactly is being paid for - is there someone supervising the study, or is it just the space?


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## lionstour (8 May 2012)

Orals are not going on in the last month so thats not an issue.  From my experience, those who stay in school do better than those who stay at home to play playstation, I mean to study.


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## Marion (8 May 2012)

I don't work in the Leaving Cert area or the Junior Cert area. But here are my thoughts:

Firstly your son will be missing 20 days? 4 weeks? Will there be an investigation in relation to this by the home-school liaison officer? I think all days missed by students of 20 days or over 20 days will be assessed? I'm open to correction.

Secondly, your son has signed on to do evening study. Is there a policy in the school in relation to this? Have you signed off in relation to this -  perhaps in a school journal?

If not I reckon that your son can continue his evening study regardless of whether or not he attends school during the day - but take note of what I said in relation to home-school liaison.

Marion[broken link removed]


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## orka (8 May 2012)

Marion said:


> I think all days missed by students of 20 days or over 20 days will be assessed? I'm open to correction.


The school is obliged to report total absence in excess of 20 days but I can't imagine there will be any follow up of a near 19 year old close to the Leaving Cert.


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## Marion (8 May 2012)

orka said:


> The school is obliged to report total absence in excess of 20 days but I can't imagine there will be any follow up of a near 19 year old close to the Leaving Cert.



If I were the person involved I would follow up.

That's  what a public servant is obliged to do regardless of how close it is to exam time or the age of the student. Indeed, if they didn't do their job properly there would be an outcry  particularly by those in the private sector! And maybe by those in the public sector also.

The latter detail in your post  - age 19 close to the Leaving Cert. -  is entirely irrelevant.

Marion[broken link removed]


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## lionstour (8 May 2012)

Marion said:


> The latter detail in your post - age 19 close to the Leaving Cert. - is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> Marion[broken link removed]


 
While I agree the 20 days absence will be followed up and reported on at school level, nothing will be done after that. The system is beyond breaking point; the age 19 and close to LC point is certainly not irrelevant.

As I've already said check the school policy. Simple as.


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## Marion (8 May 2012)

lionstour said:


> While I agree the 20 days absence will be followed up and reported on at school level, nothing will be done after that. The system is beyond breaking point; the age 19 and close to LC point is certainly not irrelevant.
> 
> As I've already said check the school policy. Simple as.



I'm surprised that you are confident that nothing will be done.

As I said, If I were involved, I would definitely do the job that I am paid to do.

No system is beyond breaking point.

Age 19 and close to LC is certainly irrelevant.

Public sector employees are now more than ever acutely aware of their obligations. They will do the job that they are paid to do and expected to do. 

They will therefore, obviously, look after number 1 - themselves.

They don't really care about collateral damage - others who might be affected by outcomes. A 19 year old is an adult and responsible for their own actions.

I speak from experience.

Marion[broken link removed]


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## lionstour (9 May 2012)

There is not enough staff to deal with the thousands of students who are missing over 50 days and more. Often because of serious neglect etc. And you think there is time resources to follow up on a guy like this? It's nothing to do with public sector workers not understanding there responsibilities. The staff are just overloaded and only the absolute hard cases get sorted.


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## huskerdu (9 May 2012)

Lionstour knows a lot more about this than me, but it is also my experience ( second hand experience from families in our kids school), that if there is over 20 days absence in a school year, but the child is performing well at school and there are no obvious issues of neglect, that it is not followed up. 

I assume that all cases get looked at quickly and only the serious cases are prioritised. 


One question for Lionstour - Do they have an obligation to follow up where the student is over 18 ? I believe that they cannot follow up with a 4 or 5 year old, as there is no legal obligation to send your child to school until 6 in Ireland ( or is this an urban myth).


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## lionstour (9 May 2012)

huskerdu said:


> One question for Lionstour - Do they have an obligation to follow up where the student is over 18 ? I believe that they cannot follow up with a 4 or 5 year old, as there is no legal obligation to send your child to school until 6 in Ireland ( or is this an urban myth).


 
No, they will absolutly not follow up a student over 18. it will never happen.


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## Thirsty (9 May 2012)

Ok, so what you are saying is that he wants to study at home during the day but go into the school in the evening?

To be honest, I think the school management are right here; if you are going to study at home, stay at home.

They are also very wary about final year students and the 'messing' (and sometimes serious vandalism) that they get up to in the last few weeks of school.  

It's not the students that have to clean up or pay for the mess left behind.


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## Nige (9 May 2012)

The National Education Welfare Board (NEWB) will only follow up on absences by children aged 6 to 16 (the ages they are obliged to have an education).


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## sam h (9 May 2012)

I can understand the school taking this stance - if ever 6th year pupil decided to pick & choose to go into school/classes whenever it suited them, there would be chaos.  At what stage would this be seen as OK, a month before the exams, 2 or 3 months?  But as the pupils are generally 18/19 it unlikely the Dept would ever follow up.  

The name you gave is "after school study" - if he is not present in the school, how can it be "after school" for him.  

Also, if he feels he will do more at home, what is the precieved benefit in going to the study time? Is there an adult present in the house - is he really doing proper study?  Can you request a refund for the unused portion of the after school study time?

At least if he is in school & teachers are doing revision he can ask questions and specifically ask teachers to cover particular areas of difficulty.


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## orka (9 May 2012)

Marion said:


> I'm surprised that you are confident that nothing will be done.
> ...
> I speak from experience.


As do I.

Twice for various reasons, we have been 'reported' - the school sent us a letter telling us they were obliged to do so (it's a bright line distinction - absent 20 days yes or no - they can't apply discretion if there are valid explanations). We heard nothing on either occasion.


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## huskerdu (9 May 2012)

orka said:


> As do I.
> 
> Twice for various reasons, we have been 'reported' - the school sent us a letter telling us they were obliged to do so (it's a bright line distinction - absent 20 days yes or no - they can't apply discretion if there are valid explanations). We heard nothing on either occasion.




You are illustrating the point that both myself and lionstour made. 
The school made a report to the DOE, as they are obliged to do and the relevant officials in the DOE reviewed the file and decided that nothing was to be done,.

They only follow up where the absences show evidence of the child being denied an education. 

I have just realised that this discussion is irrelevant to the OPs question. 

If the LC is starting in 4 weeks, there are less than 20 days left in the actual school year.


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