# Institute for Independent Business



## startingup

Hi Folks

Currently looking at leaving my own full time PAYE worker role and set myself up as an independent consultant.  Saw an add in the Irish Times for the above looking for associate members. 

I Have looked at their website and get some extra info.  I have also done the Clubman scam search using Google and it showed up nothing.

I was wondering if anyone had ever come across these guys before?  Any feedback on them?  I am worried that it is some sort of scam promising you loads of clients and work if you sign up for a fee and you then hear nothing afterwards.

Thanks


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## Guest

Might be worth checking out what, if anything, they can provide that other free sources of information and advice can't (e.g. BASIS, OASIS, Enterprise Ireland, FÁS etc.)



www.enterprise-ireland.com/
www.fas.ie


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## startingup

*IIB*

Thanks for the reply unreg.

Have been looking in those areas already.  What IIB promise is an income stream once you have been made associate.  My concerns are that you end up paying a lot of money and time in something that doesn't deliver.

I am using the old rule of "if it's too good to be true then it isn't" hence my caution before proceeding any further with them


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## Guest

*IIB*

> What IIB promise is an income stream once you have been made associate.

Hmmmm.... what do you have to do to become an associate? If it involves recruiting others then this sounds more and more like a pyramid scheme. What service or product are they selling? What is the business model? I would proceed with caution on this one until any questions and concerns have been adquately addressed...


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## rainyday

Is [broken link removed]? Don't see anything about an associate program here, though your brief description does look slighly suspicious. You don't get nuttin for nuttin.


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## Guest

Their "find us" and "newsletter" links are broken. I personally would be wary of taking business advice from an organisation that can't even maintain such a simple website. There is a mention of "associates" on the "more about IIB" page but overall the site doesn't give much information about what they claim to do.


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## startingup

*IIB*

Yep that is their site.

I have looked at it and found nothing of great substance to answer my questions.  They claim to be a network of ex senior executives who offer advise to SME companies on strategy etc.  However their is no mention or details as to how these SMEs get in touch with IIB in the first place.  First I heard of them was their add in the times.

Their Irish site can be found at www.business-executives.com

Cheers


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## jasperC

*IIB*

Startingup,

I have heard of this kind of set up before but I have no express knowledge of IIB - It might be a mentoring programme where people who need advice go in, have a chat and the mentor (ie the supposed senior executive) tries to sell a series of further sessions at a "reasonable" price - "Dear Mr. MD of a small company how could you say that e1,000 per session is too much - look at the wealth of experience that available to you !!"

I might be overly cynical here so if anyone has positive experiences of mentoring programmes I apologise !

BTW - Startingup can you say what field you are now working in ?  I am about to do the same and would be interested in hearing your experiences / advice

JapserC


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## startingup

*IIB*

Hi JasperC

thanks for the feedback.  I think you may be hitting the nail on the nead with their programme.  I have received an email today saying that I have the required skills and talent they are looking for and all my questions will be answered in a forthcoming seminar and one to one session that will be scheduled shortly.

I am in the IT area focusing on infrastructure and IT management issues.  Setting myself up as a sole trader after reading various advise from people such as O and Tommy posted here previously.


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## Brendan Burgess

I would be very wary of them as they give no personal information about the people behind the company. I don't immediately see any information about charges or fees either.

I have never heard of them.

As far as I know, the IDA or whatever it's called now, offers a mentoring programme, if you want a mentor or non-executive director. It's also worth joining the Small Firms Association or ISME. 

Brendan


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## Irldigi

Local County Enterprise Boards also offer mentoring both pre and post startup, Very reasonable rates....

Regards,

Digi


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## startingup

*IIB*

thanks for all the feedback folks.  You have reinforced my own doubts about the group.  I will go along to their information meeting to see what they have to say and will let you all know what the outcome of that is.


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## Guest

Don't fall for any hard sell and definitely don't sign anything or give out your personal contact details until/unless you can establish the bona fides of any such organisation...


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## Pat Curtis

What a great shame that so many of you have posted all this rubbish without doing a modicum of research first.
The Institute for Independent Business is a global accreditation organisation with some 3000 associates. It is believed to be the biggest organisation of its type in the world.
My belief is that is thread started in Ireland? Assuming that to be the case, you may be interested to know that there now exists a thriving and highly motivated group of IIB accredited associates in your Country, all providing hands-on support to Small and Medium size enterprises.
Whoever started this link, and the unfortunates who subsequently publicised their "well thought-out" opinions, would have been better advised to have followed the link indicated in the newspaper ad that has been refered to, attended an IIB seminar in Dublin, and got the facts about the IIB, instead of firing off with such misleading and dangerously inaccurate statements


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## RainyDay

Hi Pat - Can you please be specific about which points above you believe to be 'rubbish' and 'misleading and dangerously innacurate'?

Regards - RainyDay


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## ClubMan

_Pat _- you might also want to clarify what, if any, vested interest you have in the _IIB _in accordance with . Maybe then you could address some of the concerns that were posted earlier and refute them in a constructive manner if possible. For example _Brendan's _point about the site not giving much information about who is behind the organisation is one worth tackling. If you are associated with the organisation then attacking the genuine and legitimate concerns about the _IIB _raised above in the curt manner above hardly does you or the _IIB _any favours in my personal opinion.


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## bobsie

I have also been researching the IIB. I first contacte them as I found them listed as a recruiter for marketing executives. I am an American citizen looking to work and live in the UK. They have responded to me, even phoned me, to confirm some details. I have now been invited to attend one of these seminars in London next month when I will next be in the UK. I am very curious that they would be willing to discuss the work visa situation with me if they are a scam. It's too bad "startingup" did not come back after attending one of the seminars; I would really like to know more about this. I have gone through pages of google listings, but this site is the only one I found where they are questioned--but then, I've found little to support them other than bits sourced from their own website. I have found them referenced in a few worthy publications, but the articles gave me the impression that the auther may not have fully followed through on his/her info gathering (but, this could be me developing a new sense of paranoia about IIB). If anyone can point me in a direction, or if anyone has any additional info, I'd be grateful.

~b


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## xocal

Brendan said:
			
		

> As far as I know, the IDA or whatever it's called now, offers a mentoring programme, if you want a mentor or non-executive director. It's also worth joining the Small Firms Association or ISME.
> 
> Brendan


 
You must be referring to Enterprise Ireland who provide Mentoring services for sme's. see www.enterprise-ireland.com/mentors

Also all County Enterprise Boards provide a similar service.


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## millertime

I came across a guy recently who was an accountant and he worked for IBI. I think the basic deal involved alot of cold calling to SME's. However I spoke to a colleague who availed of his services and he hadn't a bad word to say.. sorry I can't offer anything more.


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## mpower

I am scheduled to go to an orientation for IIB in the US and did research on them also.  I've found a couple of business advisors who claimed to be accredited through them.  I will report on the real deal when I get back from the meeting.


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## Romulan

Would be very interested in getting an update after the meeting is completed.


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## sputz

startingup said:
			
		

> Hi Folks
> 
> Currently looking at leaving my own full time PAYE worker role and set myself up as an independent consultant. Saw an add in the Irish Times for the above looking for associate members.
> 
> I Have looked at their website and get some extra info. I have also done the Clubman scam search using Google and it showed up nothing.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone had ever come across these guys before? Any feedback on them? I am worried that it is some sort of scam promising you loads of clients and work if you sign up for a fee and you then hear nothing afterwards.
> 
> Thanks


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## sputz

I also am near to the final stage of actually paying the $$ to be a part of IIB. It would be good to get an update from the past postings (dating back to 06-2004) as to what happened to those who went ahead with it.


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## Magicmoney

Hi Everyone,

I have been to IIB seminar and to an interview with an assessment panel. It seems all very good and resonable. But I am still skeptical. I do like to business model they work on and the level of expertise they provide to SME sector. But does SME have that sort of money to pay external consultants? Also IIB asks for fees of around £11,000. Is it worth to invest that sort of money. Does anyone have any information on success rates of IIB consultants?
Please get back to me. And if I have any further information, I will post a reply straight away

Many Thanks
Regards


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## RainyDay

Is it unreasonable to expect that if you are going to be advising SMEs on how to run their businesses, you would be capable of working out for yourself whether it is going to be a worthwhile investment?


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## Icarus

RainyDay said:
			
		

> Is it unreasonable to expect that if you are going to be advising SMEs on how to run their businesses, you would be capable of working out for yourself whether it is going to be a worthwhile investment?


Good call!


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## jai hind

we are always very skeptical of any new change, whatever it may be , it is our inborn characteristic to querry  ?? everything that we see, smell, feel. More so because we are so call intelligent ,learned human being. Still looking for quickmoney to help support our dreams.
In this forum we all have posted negative opinion, but i think we need to look at it with open mind. 

1. IIB has been running all over europe and USA canada mexico WHY?? are they such big con

2. In there 10 yr in Uk they have nourished well ans there are 2 well run groups in southeast london and thames valley group of iib

3. They do offer "minimum invoice gurantee "  i am not aware of any similar consultants or new group which offer minimum invoice gurantee if u fail. So if u fail u still make 48k £ at 18% tax rate. ?? Is that bad for a year

4. you may come across a business which u can take over and let ur dreams fly.   ?? who knows

I am also in the process of making deceison for myself , but not there yet.

have a good day everyday


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## Magicmoney

I have just spoken to Citizens Advice Bureau in Reading and they said they have not heard of IIB. The lady at CAB checked a website called [broken link removed]
This is site where all the limited companies have to register. And if they donot comply with the regulations or have any defaults, it gets recorded on the above web site. Apparently, IIb doesnot have any defaults or red ticks........all seems OK.
But still though it is totally legitimate, it doesnot mean it is not a complete  rip off.


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## mountain

I just came across the Institure for Independent Business and started doing company research...and found this string of emails that I simply found very interesting. I too, was unable to find definite information as to the validity of the company. Also, nowhere I found details that an investment is required to join. That's what it's keeping me from proceeding with these guys. It all sounds very nice....but....I just don't know. 
I joined this forum because of this topic and will be very grateful if anyone who recently joined would share his/her experiences.


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## viking

Interesting thread here, which I came across while doing some research on IIB. To me, the whole IIB thing looks fishy. They don't reveal any specific information. All you get from their websites is superficial marketing talk. It seems like a sort of multi-level-marketing organisation - judging by their language and how the present themselves. Pat Curtis' Scientology-like post definitely confirmed this notion. My advice: keep away from such folks! Anyhow, it'd be interesting to hear the feedback of the critical people here, after having attended an IIB event.


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## FinInquire

Hello -  I also am investigating this company from a recruiting posting in the USA.  I find it interesting that this thread goes back to 2004, yet there doesn't seem to be a lot of information of substance.  Also, some times guaranteed incomes are required to be paid back if the income wasn't generated during the pre-payment period.  Any information on this situation?


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## Icarus

I don't want to cast any undue aspersions on IIB but I wonder if the reason we aren't getting alot feedback from be people with direct experience is because it's human nature to share our questions and triumphs as opposed to our mistakes?


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## Tuson

Well this is harder than finding out info about the Masons. I have been invited to pay up and head to Watford for my Residential Business School, but share the concerns of many about this group.
It does not strike me as a multi level marketing scheme, as, once you are accredited, everything you invoice is for yourself. 
The minimum invoicing guarantee is a nice safety net - provided you are happy with them owning your soul for 12 months. (You have to follow their system precisely, and make a minimum or 125 cold calls (phone) per week!)
I guess what strikes me as strangest is that, when I googled for info as if I was a small business owner, I found a plethora of agencies and organisations I could turn to, but no sign of IIB. 
It seems individual associates must all undertake their own marketing, after the first 10 leads, which you get as part of your buy-in.
In one google search I saw them referred to in a site called punditmag.com, but have been unable to access it.
I'll see what I can find out from the associates I've been introduced to.


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## jai hind

i have also been invited to join them as generalist, passed there initial assessment. Happy to pass but still skeptical weather to join or not. I am trying to find out somebody who has done IIB accredation recently , not much luck yet.


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## businessman1

Hello everyone. Ok, you guys had me a little nervous there for a minute. I am also scheduled to attend an orientation here in the states this month. I was also doing background checks on IIB to find out a little more about the company. However, I didn't seem to have the problem these other people have had in contacting the company directly. there is contact information on their website, including a phone number for a branch in NJ. I just got off the phone with one of the associates and here's what they told me. NO it's not MLM, NO there isn't a mandatory cold call requirement, YES you will have to pay for the schooling required to teach you their business model. YES there is a "guaranteed invoice" according to the associate, this amount is usually obtained within the first 6 months. You can decline the gaurantee if you choose too. You are an independent consultant. meaning just like any other business, you would handle your own marketing, business cost, etc... the association with IIB is for credibility, training, contacts (which she said you are set up with) etc... So, I will attend the orientation at the end of this month and unlike the others, I will come back and give my feedback whether it's good or bad. To me it appears to be like any other business venture. There is always a cost, there is always success and failure and there are always mixed opinions. I would suggest attending the orientation, asking all the questions and concerns you may have and then make a conscious decision based on facts. As a previous business owner myself, I don't think I would appreciate having a forum out there bashing my company, If these people really had know Idea what my company was about. And NO, I'm not affiliated with IIB what so ever. thanks for your time. I'll let you know how it goes. P.S. the reason they are not found under google searches is because they do not avertise as a Consultant company. each associate is independent. You may however, find that some of the searches that do come up would be accredited to IIB. not for sure, but it would be possible. it would be like going to Harvard to be an attorney. each attorney that comes out of Harvard, gives recognition for attending, but does not advertise Harvard as a law firm. IIB to me, is more of a network of business consultants with access to each other, as well as training in business consulting. lets face it, we all may be good at our field of expertise, but a banking exec. could not go into an IT firm and tell him what he's doing wrong, unless you had a standard business model that was generic enough to meet any business need. which would be very common.


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## Icarus

Businessman1:

As a result of seeming to disapprove of this thread you have offered this advice:


> "I would suggest attending the orientation, asking all the questions and concerns you may have and then make a conscious decision based on facts."



But aren't facts exactly what your apparently unbiased claims are lacking? You have already made it clear that you yourself have not attended orientation:


> Ok, you guys had me a little nervous there for a minute. I am also scheduled to attend an orientation here in the states this month. I was also doing background checks on IIB to find out a little more about the company.



Why are you so vehement in your defence of an organisation that you claim to have no affiliation with? To be honest I would actually assume you don't have anything to do with IIB because all your post has done is make me even more suspicious.

I don't want to seem like a pedant here, but is there any chance you could try the odd paragraph break next time? I presume you've cut and pasted your message, but even so, the odd strategic push of the enter button will make your next post much easier to read!


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## sharonpink

Dear All,
I am an independent consultant and have been an Associate of the IIB for over three years. I am also the (unpaid, volunteer) chairman of an IIB regional group so I and my committee support and help the new Associates who are accredited in our region (from the Watford area, north-west London, Herts generally, and surrounding counties). 

Obvously I can't speak on behalf of the IIB management, but from an Associate perspective I am happy to answer any of the questions that any of you as prospective joiners are asking, if I can.  

I don't see any great mystique about the IIB. Being an Associate helps me build my business because as an independent consultant I am able to say I have a network of 3,500 skilled people behind me!  The IIB is simply an accreditation organisation that gives me access to a worldwide network of like-minded (I hope!) independent businesspeople who all look after their own clients and are trying to make a living the same way I am.  It is CERTAINLY not a multi-level-marketing or pyramid type scheme as I would never sign up to such a thing - to join was a matter of passing the various tests and interviews based on the skills and experience I was able to demonstrate from my career to date. 

I get the impression from some of your postings that you have concerns as to why the organisation doesn't market or promote itself actively. I'm not sure that's relevant to our own situations and, as I said, can't speak for the IIB hierarchy but I can say that since the monthly intake of new people has seemed to me to be consistently the same amount of people each month since I joined in 2002, I should imagine the IIB is happy with its level of recruitment, so who am I to question how they spend their advertising budget!  Anyway, when I'm out with clients or prospects, it is MY company profile I want to raise, and the point of the IIB accreditation is simply the additional gravitas it gives me and my company, the same as some of my other colleagues use when they show they are also members of the Institute of Directors or Institute of Marketing or CIPD or whatever the relevant industry body is that they might belong to.

Yes the IIB was a significant investment for me but it has certainly been worth it. The ability to go into any prospective client and be confident that whatever their problem I am likely to be able to find someone in our network who can solve it, is invaluable to me. 

I do tell all new Associates that the first six months are probably the most difficult since it takes a bit of time to find your feet, get to know the people in your region and how their skills and experience, and those of Associates from the wider worldwide network, can help you build your own business.  But that's where we come in with the regional group network, specifically to help the new folks get started.  The regional groups also do some CPD and provide regional email networks for promoting business-to-business opportunities within the region.  And yes, it's all rather fun as well! 

I can see from the previous postings that many of you are in contact with IIB representatives in your own regions or countries who I'm sure can answer any concerns you have, but if you wish to contact me please do, at my email address sharon@screenidol.co.uk. There have obviously been some misconceptions about the IIB, based on what I'm reading here, and I'm happy to clear those up if I can.   

Sharon Pink


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## Q&A

in reading ALL of the above .... the real thing missing are some small details like truth .... 

how much does it cost, what is the time mandate to get "cleared" and what is the expected input after "cleared" ... and then, some specific clear case examples of a range of how some associates have done .... where is that clarity ?

so much mystery .... just say it - or is there a confidentiality agreement required so nobody can SAY what the deal really is after they bite, under some kind of threat .... that's the best I can do for a thread 2+ years old that has so little real information 

all the networking ideas and such mean different things to different people, and if Sharon will not tell how much she invested, then what is anyone to think ....  why guard it .... what value is there to anyone to hear all the input if we lack data ....

or did an earlier post get it right .... for those who cycled in and out of IIB and did not enjoy the "benefits" they just don't want to revisit negative things and want to move on ....  

In business since '84 worldwide and ONLY 3,500 associates after 22 years  .... churn factor enormous ....  I cannot get my arms around any of the information in a way that makes it sensible to hand a cv with contact info to IIB ..... 

at one page I saw a "health policy" offer .... for the meeting in London there was a "sponsor spot" .... so some phantom managers are doing something to raise money, but who they are and how that works is a secret they don't want to tell out loud .....

hence, the skepticism in this thread .... well warranted, good thinking people that found it "felt wrong" and after a full hour I have invested, I will NOT proceed ....

after all, after 2+ years on this thread, there is not one entry from a manager of IIB .... what is that .... hide and seek ..... no, this is a membership club, buy your way in the door and then it's up to you to enjoy whatever you can from the others also inside in the same boat -- all looking for clients to pay them ....

at some stage of professional life, cold calling for consulting assignments is ridiculous .... IF that is involved .... but then, who really knows !!

so, I vote with the skeptics .... bye bye IIB


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## Harried

I applied to an ad for them. They sent me a management change questionnaire. Apparently I passed, Then they emailed me about a five hour session that I would attend. I asked them what they were about before I spend five hours of my time. They were very reluctant to give me any information. Someone called my cell about the session, and I asked her about the fees. She sadi she was just the call center, and couldn't give me that information. I asked her to have someone call me. She said that I would find out everything at the session. Well, right off the bat the session is going to cost me a few hundred dollars in non billable time. So I trolled about the net and found all these websites of very ancient looking people who used to work for companies. I didn't see any testimonials from their clients just vague descriptions of what they had done, and it looked like it was things they had done at former jobs not as consultants. I already have credentials and their accreditation would not ring any bells with my clients, since nobody I know of has ever heard of them. I already have an MBA from an accredited school, so I don't really need any further coursework. And one of the poster on this board said they wanted about $30,000 USD. Well if I had $30,000 I could put it to better use I would think. Also on one site it listed literally dozens of accredited people. The market looks a little saturated, so I don't think I'm going to waste my time with them.


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## Ditch

I had a similar experience.  Replied to their ad, filled out the online questionnaire (many questions of which were poorly worded) and then was asked to sign up for a seminar.  It was then proved to me that their left hand doesn't know what their right hand is doing.

They sent a list of dates; I sent an email asking for other options that would better fit my location and schedule.

A week went by with no reply so I signed up for a seminar that was least intrusive to my schedule.  Two days later, I got an email asking me to sign up for a seminar.  Ahem.

My schedule changed so I cancelled my registration and again asked if they had other options.  Someone emailed me asking for a time to talk; I proposed a time, but he never replied or called.  Cough.

A few days later, I get a call from a lady who wants to confirm my attendance at the seminar I had already cancelled.  A-A-Achoo!

Given that these folks are the business experts who are supposed to bestow their 'accredidation' on applicants - I'm outta here.


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## ClubMan

The number of first time posters (both pro and anti _IIB_) in this thread makes me wonder...


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## tonilaw51

I tried emailing sharonpink, but it came back. Since she is the only associate of IIB, I have a lot of questions. My husband is scheduled to attend a meeting a couple of hundred miles away, and we don't have the money to outlay for a wild goose chase. If the fees are around $30,000 (USD) to attend classes it is not worth it.  He has dual degrees in Business and a law degree, which (as another posting stated) should be sufficient accreditation. It has to be a doozy of a class to cost that much. It would be much better to get credentials through the BBB and other related and trusted organizations - at minimal cost.


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## ClubMan

This thread is going nowhere and there are too many first time posters with strong views to take it at face value. Closed.


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