# Debt to AIB



## kitty177 (4 Dec 2009)

Why is it, that the banks use these Debt Collection Agencies? Can anyone tell me?  Is it because these "Agencies" like to scare people half to death with constant letters and threats and "fake" summons'. I am dealing with them at the moment and because of a major change in my income I didnt pay them.  Only for MABS I think I would have gone crazy by now.  Just been into MABS today and I have to say that they are excellent at what they do.  I couldn't believe my ears when I hear how "civil and polite" the Debt collector was being to the MABS worker, while all along to me it was nothing but ignorance and threats.  Thank god for MABS.


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## Mpsox (4 Dec 2009)

It's quite possible that the bank have sold the debt to a debt collecting agency so that your debt is no longer with the bank but rather with the collecting agency. Certainly, banks in the UK do it.


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## kitty177 (4 Dec 2009)

MABS found out today that they do not own the debt but are just collectors. I honestly cannot unerstand it.  The banks are refusing to have any dealings with me even though I have rang them about 10 times this week.


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## Mpsox (4 Dec 2009)

What are the nature of the threats? Is there a case for reporting them to the Gardai?


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## kitty177 (5 Dec 2009)

Its mostly threating to take me to court or to come to my home and remove anything i own to the value of the debt.  I also found out today that legally i dont have to deal with them, that i can ask them to stop contacting me because they do not own the debt, I have begun payments to them, so I hope that there will be no more letters or constant phone calls.


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## Papercut (5 Dec 2009)

Hi Kitty

  The main reasons why companies or banks would outsource debt collection are purely logistical – it’s less hassle for them sending out letters, contacting debtors, arranging & monitoring payment instalment plans, answering queries & processing payments. Less man-hours are consumed & in the long run it saves them money. They would usually have exhausted all internal methods of recovering the debt, & if the customer had ignored all letters & not made contact with a view to arranging a payment plan, or at least some regular payments to reduce the debt they would usually refer them for collection .Also, as you say, letters from a debt collection agency are generally more strongly worded & more intimidating than those that the bank themselves would write.

  They would usually only refer amounts exceeding a certain figure for collection. Depending on what debt collection agency they use, they might only pay a fee for any monies recovered, or a fixed or percentage fee. It also helps them show their own internal auditors that they are doing everything in their power to follow up & collect outstanding debts.

You may notice that the amount owed to the bank is sometimes slightly less than the amount stated on the debt collection letter as being owed. The debt collection agency adds this on as an administration fee, usually on on behalf of the bank, which helps them recoup the actual fee they have to pay to the debt collection agency, though a lot of people refuse to pay this.


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## Dee101 (5 Dec 2009)

kitty177 said:


> Why is it, that the banks use these Debt Collection Agencies? Can anyone tell me?



They generally use them when people neglect to pay what they owe to the bank, ignore their letters and don't bother contacting them. Therefore they have no other choice but to pass the account to a collection agency / Solicitor to deal with on their behalf. 

I' m not specifically speaking about the OP but I don't get why this surprises people. What do you want the banks to do? 

I know people like to come on and bash collection agencies for "threatening them" and somehow make them sound to be the worst in the world and almost criminal like in their behaviour. However, generally speaking all they want is for you to put a payment arrangement in place that suits everyone and that will be that. 
If you are refusing to make any payments whatsoever then of course that is a different matter. 

By the way it is not the case that you are not legally obliged to deal with them - it will be in the terms and condition of your loan/agreement that the bank have the right to pass your account onto a third party if they so wish.


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## bond-007 (5 Dec 2009)

Banks here do not sell debts to debt collectors. Debt collectors work on a commission basis only.


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## Danniboo7 (9 Dec 2009)

Dee101 said:


> They generally use them when people neglect to pay what they owe to the bank, ignore their letters and don't bother contacting them. Therefore they have no other choice but to pass the account to a collection agency / Solicitor to deal with on their behalf.
> 
> I' m not specifically speaking about the OP but I don't get why this surprises people. What do you want the banks to do?
> 
> ...


 
+ 1 I know things are crap with the economic situation but we all lose this "woe is me" how dare they ring me attitude. Job or no job we are all responsible for our own borrowing and it is our responsibility to pay it back.


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## kitty177 (10 Dec 2009)

it is our responsibility to pay them back, that is not the issue, they are getting what they are owed. 

Not everyone is strong minded, there are people who are vulnerable in society and what may not seem threatening to one person, could feel very threatening to another. 

Compassion is needed in some cases, not all, but some. I agree that some people could take advantage of a situation like mine, but believe me when I say that I do not want to be in debt and I am trying my very best to pay what I can and the payment is consistent.


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## Danniboo7 (10 Dec 2009)

If you have been making regular payments and have contacted your bank to explain your change in circumstances I can't see why they felt the need to involve debt collectors. Unless it's credit card debt which is a different story.


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## Athena50 (11 Dec 2009)

Our experience of AIB is appalling.  We are single income public sector salary dependent household.  We are a low-middle income family and don't hold a mortgage having decided back in 2002 that the property market was insane and opted for renting.  I'm a carer of a child with disability.  Until earlier this year we were living well within our income and had an ordinary loan that we were repaying steadily to AIB - never missed a single payment.  After the budgets this year our income was clobbered in several different ways while our expenses were increased by loss of child benefit for 18yr old, cost of third level ed for her, pay cuts levies and cuts to benefits.  We immediately wrote to AIB - not having missed a payment - to say that we were going to run into problems and asjked for an interest freeze on the account.  MABS have said we did everything exactly like it should be done.  My husband met with a bank representative and showed him all the figures and he agreed to consider the request.  We explained that we would continue making what payments we could each month though they would not be very much in comparison to the original loan repayments and we have kept to that.  Next thing we received a letter from this man which completely ignored the discussion we had had and made out that we had applied for a new loan.  We had done no such thing.  The terms of this new loan were much more expensive than the one we had and monthly repayments would have been more than the original amounts.  I.e the bank was asking us to pay more money from what it knew was a significantly reduced income.  We have written to the branch and headquarters in Dublin several times.  All our letters have been ignored and we have now received another letter accusing _us _of having ignored _their_ communications and threatening further unspecified action if we don't comply with their demands.  They are now threatening even morepunitive terms on this other loan they wrongly claim we applied for.  

It was the recapitalisation of the banks that put us all in these situations in the first place - that is where our pay cuts have gone.  We have done everything possible to be proactive and responsible about the matter but are being treated as if we had done the opposite.  Is there not some sort of obligation on AIB to behave reasonably towards its customers?  Nobody here is suggesting customers should not repay loans but it is outrageous to suggest that a situation that none of us ordinary folk had an reason to suspect was being created by the banks would throw us all into this mess.  It is not us who has reneged on anything but government policy and bankers themselves who are working their recklessness out on so many innocent people.  I have no sympathy for people who gambled on stocks, bonds, shares or whatever - yet these people are being are being far better protected than steady customers like us.  We had a secure, bank-approved deal based on what were entirely reasonable circumstances so I flatly reject ANY suggestion that we have been in any way culpable in this matter.  AIB have made it clear that they don't give a damn about us having been good, reliable customers for a decade - and they are determined to screw us into the ground any way they can.   They have lost a potential new customer in my 18 yr old daughter for life over this.  We have already switched banks for current account purposes so our only relationship with AIB now is the servicing of the loan.


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## Danniboo7 (11 Dec 2009)

Athena50 said:


> Our experience of AIB is appalling. We are single income public sector salary dependent household. We are a low-middle income family and don't hold a mortgage having decided back in 2002 that the property market was insane and opted for renting. I'm a carer of a child with disability. Until earlier this year we were living well within our income and had an ordinary loan that we were repaying steadily to AIB - never missed a single payment. After the budgets this year our income was clobbered in several different ways while our expenses were increased by loss of child benefit for 18yr old, cost of third level ed for her, pay cuts levies and cuts to benefits. We immediately wrote to AIB - not having missed a payment - to say that we were going to run into problems and asjked for an interest freeze on the account. MABS have said we did everything exactly like it should be done. My husband met with a bank representative and showed him all the figures and he agreed to consider the request. We explained that we would continue making what payments we could each month though they would not be very much in comparison to the original loan repayments and we have kept to that. Next thing we received a letter from this man which completely ignored the discussion we had had and made out that we had applied for a new loan. We had done no such thing. The terms of this new loan were much more expensive than the one we had and monthly repayments would have been more than the original amounts. I.e the bank was asking us to pay more money from what it knew was a significantly reduced income. We have written to the branch and headquarters in Dublin several times. All our letters have been ignored and we have now received another letter accusing _us _of having ignored _their_ communications and threatening further unspecified action if we don't comply with their demands. They are now threatening even morepunitive terms on this other loan they wrongly claim we applied for.
> 
> It was the recapitalisation of the banks that put us all in these situations in the first place - that is where our pay cuts have gone. We have done everything possible to be proactive and responsible about the matter but are being treated as if we had done the opposite. Is there not some sort of obligation on AIB to behave reasonably towards its customers? Nobody here is suggesting customers should not repay loans but it is outrageous to suggest that a situation that none of us ordinary folk had an reason to suspect was being created by the banks would throw us all into this mess. It is not us who has reneged on anything but government policy and bankers themselves who are working their recklessness out on so many innocent people. I have no sympathy for people who gambled on stocks, bonds, shares or whatever - yet these people are being are being far better protected than steady customers like us. We had a secure, bank-approved deal based on what were entirely reasonable circumstances so I flatly reject ANY suggestion that we have been in any way culpable in this matter. AIB have made it clear that they don't give a damn about us having been good, reliable customers for a decade - and they are determined to screw us into the ground any way they can. They have lost a potential new customer in my 18 yr old daughter for life over this. We have already switched banks for current account purposes so our only relationship with AIB now is the servicing of the loan.


 
How did they make the mistake of increasing your payments?? Is it for a greater amount or are they reducing the loan time. Also they cannot issue a new loan until you sign all the paper work and send it back, did you sign anything to this effect if not they are well in the wrong. What they say when you rang them about this?


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## Athena50 (11 Dec 2009)

The man who wrote the latest letter and the person we saw originally is not taking or returning our calls.  As mentioned he is behaving as if he had never had information or communication from us at all.  Looks like we may have to go to a solicitor or something.


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## Danniboo7 (11 Dec 2009)

Did you ask him to explain then how they managed to issue a new loan seen as how there was no paper work signed that's the most bizarre thing i've ever heard. Is the loan amount, payment frequency etc the same. If not it could have been put on the wrong account.


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## Athena50 (11 Dec 2009)

We've not signed that new loan but he's behaving as if we had. There must be very many people who are in similar cricumstances and I suppose AIB must think their customers will be able to make money out of thin air if they put enough pressure on them.


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## daithi (11 Dec 2009)

I think that there is a Financial Services Ombudsman in this country-maybe you could make this case known to them via Citizens Advice Bureau...


daithi


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## bond-007 (11 Dec 2009)

You have to exhaust all avenues of complaint with AIB first and get a final response letter form them. Only then can you complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman.
CAB have no role in the process.


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## TwoWheels (12 Dec 2009)

Borrow money = Pay it back = no problem.
Borrow money,do not pay it back = problem.

you poor victim, how would you feel if someone who owed you money decided not to pay it back?

Old enough to borrow = Old enough to be persued for that debt


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## Danniboo7 (14 Dec 2009)

Athena50 said:


> We've not signed that new loan but he's behaving as if we had. There must be very many people who are in similar cricumstances and I suppose AIB must think their customers will be able to make money out of thin air if they put enough pressure on them.


 

Did you go in and explain this. Ask to see a copy of the contract you signed (which they should have sent you a copy of). Did they increase the debt. I've never heard anything so bizarre in my life, bank issues loan, customer didn't ask for loan, bank wont explain why loan was issued


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