# Family of 6 on €600 week net



## Surviving Ok (16 Jan 2004)

Tell me if I am being worried over nothing.

We are a family of 6. Parents, 2 teenagers and 2 more younger children.
We have a net combined income of €600 per week.
We have no morgtage and a very modest lifestyle. Never taken a foreign holiday for example. We generaly have a few days in Ireland every year thats it. Our social life is max 2 nights per month.

When all is said and done we live fine on €600 per week but at the end of the year we have nothing saved. It just seems we cannot live on less than €600 per week. 

Note we have no other personal borrowings or car loans etc and we also have the monthly childrens allowance. 

Would it be fair to say that we are over spending for our type of family unit or are we doing ok in term of money management.

Would really appreciate any comments from the experts.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (16 Jan 2004)

When you say "no mortgage" do you mean that you rent or that you own your own house outright? 

Given that you have no borrowings and seem to be living withing your means you are in very good shape to start with - and there's always the possibility for improvement.

The first step would be to get a clear detailed picture of your income and outgoings. On the income side of things make sure that you are availing of all entitlements (e.g. tax credits, welfare payments etc.). On the outgoings you should note down your spending habits for a month or so and average household bills out over the previous year in order to get an average monthly amount etc. The MABS budget spreadsheet is useful for tracking your income/outgoings but all you really need is a piece of paper. Once you have done that you can start planning - e.g. see if you can cut back anywhere, what scope there is for savings, see if you are missing out on any entitlements etc. Does this make sense to you? Please post back with your progress of further queries that you might have. Good luck.


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## Surviving Ok (16 Jan 2004)

O,

Thanks for that. No morgtage means we own house outright. Always paid extra per month into the morgtage up to the point where the third child came along. That took nearly 8 years off the morgtage. That was the best thing we ever did.
Neither do we pay child minding fees. I work evenings/nights wife works days so we manage to do all our own child minding.
Have tried the expense analysis and budgeting things before but long term we dont seem to build any savings.

Seems when we put a few bob together a big expense comes along. Change the car which we do every 5 years or so for a decent low mileage 1 or 2 year old model.

Apart from that its either Christmas, insurance, school expenses, painting a room or two in the house which seems to keep the average bank balance at in or around €500.

Maybe I am being too self critical. Maybe its just a simple fact that €600 or so is needed to keep 6 people on the road.
At the end of the day I guess my question is exactly that. IS €600 a week rate of spending about right in our size op family.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (16 Jan 2004)

You own your own house which is even better. Sounds to me like you are in excellent shape. I don't know what would be a normal/reasonable budget for a family of 6 but I think you could be too hard on yourself. You own your own house and seem to be managing well on a modest budget right now without getting into debt. Give yourself credit for that - it's no mean achievement!    However I can understand your frustration if you seem to be stuck at the same financial level all the time and can't get a decent holiday etc... 



> Have tried the expense analysis and budgeting things before but long term we dont seem to build any savings.



Did you ever see any opportunities for streamlining your outgoings when you did this? Feel free to post a summary of your monthly "budget" here and maybe people can make suggestions. These sites are pitched at people in debt but also give some generally useful tips on streamlining the outgoings:

www.fool.co.uk/debt/debt.htm
[broken link removed]

Do you have any savings other than your bank account (e.g. SSIA, pension etc.)? Do you have life assurance cover?


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## rainyday (16 Jan 2004)

Hi there - I think you should really be clapping yourself on the back to be surviving in your position without slipping into ever-growing debt.

If I have to find something to beat yourself up about, you might want to think about life assurance as O mentions and/or planning for your future, i.e. college funds for kids and/or pensions.

Congrats again...


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## Surviving Ok (16 Jan 2004)

Well we do have life assurance cover €200k each.

Nothing as far as college fees or pension. I just feel at this point that we cannot stretch to covering either one.

At 46 years I guess its probably too late to start a pension given the amont of money I would need to save each month to have any impact at 65 in terms of a pension. Even then it seems to me that almost every one I have talked to who has been on a defined contribution scheme has retired with much less than they had hoped for or had been led to believe would be the case. Too much corruption  in the markets for my liking.

As for college fees. I just dont know what to do. Its going to be cap in hand to the bank I fear when the time comes. I've spent my life keeping clear of bank debt but I guess when college time comes I will have no other options. To crown it we will have two children going to college together starting in 2007 and 2008 respectively.
Im just not looking forward to it but I guess it will have to be faced.


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## daltonr (16 Jan 2004)

> Its going to be cap in hand to the bank I fear when the time comes.



With house prices rising you actually have had a decent savings program for the last few years, you invested your extra cash in property.  

The bank will most likely have no problems with you when it comes to college time.  You've raised 4 kids with no consumer debt.  You own a house outright.  You should be able to free up some of the equity in the house when the time comes.

I don't know what age you plan to retire but if it's mid sixties you still have almost 20 years to build up a bit of a pension.  It's still the most cost effective way of saving, and you're just leaving the tax breaks on the table.  But you should definitely talk to someone more qualified than me about this one.

I think you're in good shape.

At least you own everythine you own.   

-Rd


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (16 Jan 2004)

To be honest the issue of pension savings sounds academic right now from what's been posted so far unless there is some scope for reducing outgoings and redirecting the savings elsewhere. In fact if savings were to be made then I wonder if Surviving Ok might prefer (and deserve!) to take a nice holiday rather than putting the money into a pension.   How and ever...



> It's still the most cost effective way of saving, and you're just leaving the tax breaks on the table.



Do you and you wife pay income tax at the 20% or the 42% rate? This can be relevant when deciding whether or not to take advantage of pension savings tax deferral. See the guide for a bit more on this: www.askaboutmoney.com/guide/index.htm


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## Surviving Ok (16 Jan 2004)

Thanks everybody for the input. I Guess my situation is not so bad after all. I suppose its a case of sometimes when I look around I see plenty of people who should be on somewhat the same income level as us who appear to have a lifestyle way above what we can seem to afford. Makes me sometimes think we are doing something drastically wrong.
So lesson is never mind how other people live.
Thanks anyway.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (16 Jan 2004)

> So lesson is never mind how other people live.



I read a good quotation in a similar vein recently:

"If one only wished to be happy, this could be easily accomplished; but we wish to be happier than other people, and this is always difficult, for we believe others to be happier than they are." -- Montesquieu ( www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/m...quieu.html )

If you are happy enough with your lot then that's all that matters.


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## rainyday (16 Jan 2004)

> I see plenty of people who should be on somewhat the same income level as us who appear to have a lifestyle way above what we can seem to afford. Makes me sometimes think we are doing something drastically wrong.


Don't believe everything you see. You might see the nice new 04 reg cars in the garden, but you don't see the loans building up at the bank, like


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## temptedd (17 Jan 2004)

One thing you might think about is talking to your teenagers about college. If they have summer jobs and the like, it is a good discipline to get them to save a percentage of what they earn into an account they will use for spending money in college. My parents instilled the savings habit into me and I have always been grateful for that (well as soon as I was allowed to start spending what I had saved anyway!)


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (17 Jan 2004)

Whenever I was working - even part time - my parents made me hand up a certain amount to them for rent & board. I think this was a good idea too - at least in retrospect!   While I got a grant for fees while in third level education I was otherwise financially self sufficient through out of term work earnings. I'm sure that in this day of no fees (albeit with higher capitation charges than in the past) and more work available having kids who go to college has the potential to be even less of a financial burden than in the past.


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## Marie (18 Jan 2004)

*Family of 6 on Euro600 week net*

My first thought on reading your post was about that Charles Dickens character who repeatedly said "Income 2/6d, outgoings 3/-, unhappiness; income 2/6d, outgoings 2/6d, happiness!"

From my professional field I happen to know that a recent spate of sociological research in the US and UK has shown conclusively that 'having more' has NOT resulted in contentment, but in its opposite, and researchers are speculating that this is due to people having nothing to aim for or aspire to.

That said, as someone who for years was self-employed with low income, or on short-term (teaching) contracts, I empathise with your wish to be less vulnerable when big bills (a roof to be mended, or a medical emergency) come, so am offering this.

One unexpectedly-large drain on financial resources is highly-processed, highly-packaged foods.  You may be someone who grows your own organic veg in your back garden, or 'cooks from scratch'?.....in which case this advice is redundant.  Did you know for example potato crisps cost more per kilo than finest caviar?  Unpackaged fruit and veg cost less per kilo; buying pizza bases, tomato puree and toppings of your choice (cheese to grate, sliced ham or pepperoni, green peppers, etc.) gives you a better product for about quarter the price without additives and salt (which all health advice these days is telling us we get too much of!).  Today I queued in a Boots Chemist (I live in the UK) behind a young woman who was buying a small plastic bag of apple slices, and she was handing over £1.50 (that's sterling!) for less than the weight of one fresh apple (plus, of course, the food value of fruit and vegetable plummets as soon as you slice it, so she was paying a high price for a plastic bag she was going to drop on the street outside).  Filled rolls, for example, cost about £2.50 each (or £10 for 4 youngsters) for a length of french bread with - say - tuna and mayonnaise.  The ingredients are not the best.  or on the other hand you can instead make fresh tasty sandwich lunches for all 4 youngsters for the price of ONE french stick, ONE small tin of good quality (dolphin friendly) tuna, and quality mayonnaise (even cheaper if you make this yourself, which is a simple process).  All the pre-prepared sachets and jars of sauces costing nearly £2 each can be prepared at home for a fraction of the cost. 

Initial outlay - for seeds and young plants for a garden to grow fruit and basic vegetables, and on ingredients for real cooking - seems steep, and most people won't go to the bother, but this is the biggest source of 

That's my main offering.  You've said you work nights and your wife works days so perhaps pre-prepared heavily-packaged foods are your staple (and youngsters don't seem to have any concept of cooking for themselves).  It makes a HUGE difference!

The other thing that comes to mind (though I'm sure you've already seen to this - you sound very thorough and organised) is energy-conservation!  The huge difference having cavity-walls lagged, insulating roof cavity to the maximum, opening the fridge just ONCE to take out everything needed (as opposed to repeatedly opening the door taking out single items) hanging thick curtains, putting draught-excluders on outer doors, NOT switching lights on and off repeatedly during the evening (the highest consumption of energy is in the switching on/off, I was told recently!) - all adds up.

Hope this is helpful!


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (18 Jan 2004)

*Re: Family of 6 on Euro600 week net*

On a related topic... the Motley Fool Living Below Your Means (LBYM) discussion board contains some similar types of advice - some of it pragmatic like the above and some of it a bit wacky!

[broken link removed]


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## dinky (22 Jan 2004)

*family of 6*

I don't see what's so great about owning your house outright if you can't look forward to a decent holiday or do anything nice in your leisure time. There's more to life than paying back your mortgage in as fast a time as possible.


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## temptedd (22 Jan 2004)

*Re: family of 6*

The point about needing some pleasures in life is a good one. I suppose it depends which is more important to you: pleasure or security. Of course, if you have paid off your mortgage in full, there is no rent or mortgage payment to come out of your monthly budget, so you do have more "cash in hand" than with a mortgage.


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## Surviving Ok (23 Jan 2004)

Tell you what after watching "show me the money" last night I feel I cannot figure out whether I am the greatest miser of all time or a financial wizard.

I think most people replying to my original post seem to think we should let our hair down for once and have a right good holiday. The thing is I and my wife both seem to be unable to get into that particular mindset. There seems to me at least a whole lot of bloody hassle in getting to and from the chosen destination. My guess is that I would probably have a nervous breakdown in the middle of it all.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (23 Jan 2004)

I'd definitely agree with some of the sentiments expressed above that we need to have some fun and not get too obsessed with keeping tabs on the finances. However I get the impression that you, like me, feel more comfortable with the finances under control and wouldn't be the type to splurge on loans/credit cards just to have a good time. Others would and that's their choice. In terms of a holiday/break you should do whatever suits you. If you are happy enough not taking one then that too is fine as long as you're happy/content. Each to their own...


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## elderdog (23 Jan 2004)

*.*

Surviving Ok,

Dont mind these people who think you should 'let your hair down' just for the sake of it. 

My guess is that unlike you, they dont have four children to think of.

eDog


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (23 Jan 2004)

*Re: .*

To be fair, I think that some people may have inferred from the following that Surviving OK was pining for some fun. Maybe they were mistaken and he and his wife are actually happy enough as things stand...



> We have no morgtage and a very modest lifestyle. Never taken a foreign holiday for example. We generaly have a few days in Ireland every year thats it. Our social life is max 2 nights per month.


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## cuchullain (26 Jan 2004)

*6 on 600*

I think you are doing bloody well. On the subject of college fees etc I would not over worry. With your income and with two in college at the same time the allowances are more generous. you wont have any fees and maybe should quality for maintainance of some sort.  If I recall the income could be as high as €40000 with two in college. I cant recall where I came across this figure but some place in Offaly keeps coming into my head.
After 1 year in College if they find a part time job they will be better able to help the second year. and when the first two quality they might help with a little with the second two.
good luck


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (26 Jan 2004)

*Re: 6 on 600*

In relation to grants OASIS might be able to help:


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## icantbelieveitstaken (27 Jan 2004)

*6 on 600*

To be honest SurvivingOk it sounds like you could do with going into managable debt to treat yourself a bit and that you actually want to be told to do this.
You've been working hard for years (and I don't just mean professionally, 4 kids is hard work). Even when you had the extra money (before the other kids came along) you were putting it towards paying off the mortgage.
Life and quality thereof isn't just about being money conscious, you and your family are your most important asset and spending some money to service this asset is as good an investment as paying off a mortgage early.
There is also such a thing as good debt, I'm extremely conscious of day to day money and long term financial planning. But I consider that enjoying my life and helping my family to also do so is my main priority and am prepared to borrow to spend to achieve this.
I'm not talking about spending for the sake of it or overstretching myself to have things to impress others. I'm talking about investments in life, little luxuries, a nice holiday each year (doesn't have to be abroad), nice Christmas or birthday presents (within reason), my wife going for a massage or beauty treatment now and then etc. 
Importantly, the key to all these things is that you don't skimp when you do them, eat out if you're on holiday, get the proper toy not its cheaper equivalent. 
Watch the pennies day to day as its here that you'll actually make a difference to your finances but don't skimp on yourself or your family.


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## daltonr (27 Jan 2004)

*Re: 6 on 600*

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of borrowing to pamper yourself.

Let's take one example.  The annual Holiday.  Now, by definition if you borrow for a yearly holiday you should not be repaying that debt over more than 1 year.  Otherwise each holiday is just adding to your debt.

But, if you can affort to repay the debt it one year, then all you need to do is put aside that much for one year and you have enough to pay cash for the holiday.   

Given that you haven't been splurging on holidays etc, and yet still haven't managed to save, you need to check if you actually have the surplus income to repay the kind of "good debt" than was described above.

I suspect you have a cash surplus, but up until now it has always been ploughed into the mortgage.

Before I go down the road of borrowing for short term rewards like a holiday, I'd try to imagine I have a debt of say 2500, and make the repayments each month into a separate account.

If you genuinely don't have any spare cash then you won't have cash for debt repayments.

I would agree with one point though.  If you know you can easily afford repayments, don't swear off debt for some idealogical reasons. 

Feel free to use debt to give yourself a treat.  E.g. You might like to take a really amazing holiday and pay it off over 3 years, as long as you know you won't have a holiday next year or the year after.  You could save for 3 years, but feel free to borrow and do it now, if now is the right time.

-Rd


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## icantbelieveitstaken (27 Jan 2004)

*Re: 6 on 600*

Rd would you not agree that the vast amount of ordinary people borrow to "pamper" themselves. In sofar that we all have mortgages and that by not putting every euro from any unnecessary expenditure into our mortgage as SurvivingOk appears to have done we are effectively "borrowing to pamper" ourselves.
To be honest what I'm meant was for SOk to realise some of the house value to spend on his family (not in one go).
As much as I wouldn't recommend one extreme of spending irresponsibly, because you could get hit by a bus tomorrow, I also wouldn't advocate the other extreme of not allowing yourself some "feelgood".
We only get one life and I want to look back on mine with as few regrets as possible (we'll always have some) rather than with a fully paid off house to leave to my children.


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## Surviving Ok (28 Jan 2004)

Im reading the latest posts with great interest. Im still not sure that I could convince myself to borrow for a "really good holiday". 
I think of this as spending a year or more paying back for something which lasted one or two weeks. Also I guess my inner compass tells me that the "do every thing now" type family MAY bring up adults / young adults for whom very little remains to be achieved. ie They have been there and done that. What have they really have to look forward to doing in their own right. 

I figure we owe our children a good education and a stable home environment with a bit of craic thrown in of course. As for fairly decent christmas presents I would say we probably also manage that although the latest phones and games are a NO NO NO despite protests from the teenage quarters. 

I feel the marketing hype from Nokia and Sony is even worse than the hype from BOI or AIB. The former tryiny to convince you that you must have what you dont really need and the latter trying to convince you that you can easily afford it though in truth maybe you can't.

Nokia and AIB make an awful lot of money and I am convinced that they make a dissproportionate slice of that money from people who fall for the hype and regret it soon after.

I remember when I trembled in my shoes at the thought of having to see tha bank manager. Now days he regularly writes offering loans I do not want and I really must say I get pleasure in putting them in the fire.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (28 Jan 2004)

That was my point above - i.e. if you are content without the big holiday (or whatever) and are as happy to spend smaller amounts within your disposable income budget on more modest treats for you and your family then that's all that matters. Don't worry about what others think. I can certainly empathise with the sentiments you express towards what some may see as blanket commercialisation and hype surrounding products that are ultimately unncessary luxuries that many people can happily do without.


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## temptedd (28 Jan 2004)

I can never see the logic of borrow for a hol now and paying it off for the next year. I prefer to save for it over the year and then go (owing nothing when you come home and starting to save for the next one). Same amount each month, just not paying interest (so more money for beer).


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## Surviving Ok (28 Jan 2004)

Temptedd, 

Yes that is exactly what I mean. I apply the same logic to everything except the house. Will probably have to borrow for college unfortunately but starting to save a little starting this week for impending college starting in 2007. Looking for a part time job right now to help with this issue.


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## jdwexford (28 Jan 2004)

"Looking for a part time job right now to help with this issue. "
Make sure the people going to college look for one too (+Summer work), when they are old enough. Take something off them every week for board, and stivk it in a savings account.


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## Moneybags (28 Jan 2004)

Think it was WB Yeats who said "too much sacrifice makes a stone of the heart".

But he was referring to the men of 1916 - not families who decide they can't afford to go to Lanzarote  .


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (28 Jan 2004)

> not families who decide they can't afford to go to Lanzarote



Never mind a luxury cruise to Byzantium, Turkey to ogle some jugs! :lol


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## Moneybags (28 Jan 2004)

Hi O,

This is either a reference to Leaving Cert poetry or "I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here", which also features some jugs (I'm led to believe).


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## Murt10 (3 Feb 2004)

Each to his own but personally I would look again at changing the car every 5 years or so. If you have had the car from nearly new and havn't wrecked or put colossal mileage on it there is no reason that it won't last 10 years provided it has been looked after. It has already suffered most of its depreciation by the time you are getting rid of it and either taking out a loan for a new car or clearing out your savings. I'd prefer to spend the money on a foreign holiday

The little Irish holiday is the major expense that I hate.

Last year we went to Portugal (2 adults and 2 children under 10). Eating out each night came to between E40 and E50 for starters, main course, desert and either a bottle of the house wine or two beers. The children ate off a childrens menu and had a main course desert and a bottle of Coke or 7 up.

And just to show how pee'd off at being ripped off I was I hired a car for 3 days(E85) and found the local LIDL shop where I stocked up on water and wine and stuff.  I reckon the savings I made meant that the car cost me virtually nothing. The shops on the Resort (Ali Super) are like Spar convenience shops and because they have a captive market they charge way in excess of what they would charge if they had competition. It also saved me from having to lump those big 5 litre bottles back to the apartment each day.

And the weather is almost guaranteed


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (3 Feb 2004)

Are you saying that you were ripped off in the restaurants in Portugal?


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## Murt10 (3 Feb 2004)

O.

No. But I shudder to think what a similar meal including a bottle of wine would cost in Iraland. I wouldn't hope for change from E80 - E90. 


Murt


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (3 Feb 2004)

OK - I thought that you were saying that you were ripped off in the restaurants so decided to self cater with Lidl supplies instead!


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## Savy (5 Mar 2004)

0,
You included a link to oasis regarding the maintenance.
There page describes how much you pay in fees for a given income/number of dependents. I thought that college fees had been erradicated?
S


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (5 Mar 2004)

Yes - tuition fees were abolished a few years back but capitation fees are still there and increasing as far as I know. Anyway, college MAINTENANCE grants are paid in respect of general stuff like living expenses etc. and not specifically fees.


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## daltonr (5 Mar 2004)

> Yes - tuition fees were abolished a few years back but capitation fees are still there and increasing as far as I know.



Isn't great the way the whole country was up in arms about possibly introducing tuition fees, as if College was free at the moment.

Fees is Fees.  The only thing we can be thankfull is they're not charging is twice for college.  They would if they could get away with it.

-Rd


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## Aquila (6 Mar 2004)

Undergraduate tuition fees are not charged to first time EU students, but they still exist and are listed in most college calendars and websites.

If a student needs to repeat a year or decides to change their course e.g. after completing one year of a degree then they will have to pay fees for the repeat/first year of the new course as the government will only pay for one year at each level. This also applies in the case of higher education grant holders, apart from exceptional cases such as serious illness. I'm not sure if any exceptional provisions apply in the case of non grant holders, but individual colleges may waive part or all of a fee in cases of hardship. 

Similarly a graduate who goes back to do a second undergraduate degree will have to pay tuition fees. Previous grant holders may possibly be entitled to a second chance grant for another UG course (from year 1) if they dropped out of a course over five years ago.

Irish and EU students who pay tuition fees for a second UG course etc. do not pay the full economic fees which are charged to non EU students. These are usually about 3-4 times what Irish/EU students are charged.

Postgraduate fees were never 'abolished' although higher education grants may cover the cost of these for some students. It used to be the case that local authorities would only fund one course a postgrad level, but now it may be possible to get a grant for more than one provided that one is moving to a higher level of qualification.  For example it after a student completes a masters it may be possible to get a grant for a PhD, but not a postgraduate diploma. Local authorities will generally only fund a student for a total of four years of postgrad study.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (6 Mar 2004)

I stand corrected on my earlier simplified "fees abolished" post....


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## Once Bitten (12 Mar 2004)

First off, you're weekly spend is not that high.  We are a family of four (2 toddlers) and when I exclude expenses that you don't have (mortgage, car loans, child care) our weekly spend is about the same.  And you have two teenagers to feed !

A question worth asking is what was your net income back when you did have a mortgage and because you had the mortgage, was your weekly spend on other items much less than it is now.  If you were still earning 600 pw net back then and the mortgage was taking 100 pw, what are you doing now with the 100 pw?

Another question that comes to mind is you say at the end of the day, you have no savings.  You mentioned you had no loans.  What is paying for the replacement car every 5 years?  Surely that is condidered savings if you're not taking out a loan each time.


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## jermat (30 Mar 2004)

I have just seen this thread for the first time and think that your original question is a fascinating one

Quote
"Would it be fair to say that we are over spending for our type of family unit or are we doing ok in term of money management."

From what you say you have childerns allowance in addition to €600 net, which brings you closer to €700 per week.

It seems to me that this is a high level of spending for no holidays and 2 nights a month socialising. Of course I have no teenagers, are they much more expensive than babies? Do you have any other major cash drain.

We are a family of 5 and live on €90 odd a week less than this after the mortgage. I certainly think of us as being well off. The average income in Ireland for a full time employee is €28,000p.a. €538 a week gross.

Everyone has different priorities, but we manage 2 or more foreign trips on this, which we really enjoy, however I would have no interest in changing the cars (2) so often.

As to practical advice on savings you obviously have significant equity in your house. You could borrow up to 40% of the value at less than 3% pa (less after tax savings). A well designed conservative high yield equity portfolio could be expected to make a profit on this cost of capital, for example AIB shares are yielding 5% at the moment.

A pension (which you could fund in a like way) would leave no flexibility for college fees.


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## Croesus (30 Mar 2004)

*€600*

I think you are doing well to have an income of €31k per annum plus children's allowance for 4 kids.
Somehow life always seems to balance out - you must not worry too much about the future.
Regarding College fees- with an income of €31k and having four kids, it sounds to me that you would qualify for a grant for each student. I think the cut off is about 32k plus kids allowance.


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## Protocol (31 Mar 2004)

*statistics can be confusing*



> The average income in Ireland for a full time employee is €28,000p.a. €538 a week gross.



This is incorrect.  This is the Average Industrial Wage.

The average wage in many other sectors is higher, as I have posted before.


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## temptedd (31 Mar 2004)

*Re: statistics can be confusing*



> As to practical advice on savings you obviously have significant equity in your house. You could borrow up to 40% of the value at less than 3% pa (less after tax savings). A well designed conservative high yield equity portfolio could be expected to make a profit on this cost of capital, for example AIB shares are yielding 5% at the moment



I don't think borrowing to invest in shares is a good idea in principal. I would be particulary reluctant to secure borrowings of this sort on the family home.


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## maebee (15 May 2004)

Congrats. Think you're doing really well. I discovered a REAL money saver a few years ago. I go into my local Tesco a half an hour before it closes (usually 7.30 on a Monday, Tues and Wed evening). They sell off everything which has that particular day's sell-by date. Last week I got a €14.75 pot roast for €3, sausages for 50cent. lamb chops from €3.99 to 99cent. Our Tesco sells all its own brand ready-meals for 50c on its sell-by date coming up to shop closing time.  I have a freezer (which has paid for itself a dozen times over) and bung everything in it straight away. I've been shopping this way for the past 6 or 7 years and have Never Ever had even the mildest of food poisioning. Believe me, it's a real saver and a bit of craic too. Also nice to think you're "beating the system". Good luck.


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## Bridget (22 May 2004)

*average wages*

Protocol, 

*****
This is incorrect. This is the Average Industrial Wage. The average wage in many other sectors is higher, as I have posted before.
******

would you mind posting again?  I can't find it.  Thanks.


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