# pharmacists not stocking cheaper generic drugs



## gearoid (4 Sep 2008)

Hi,
Just wondering if other people have noticed pharmacists not stocking cheaper generic drugs, particularly in Dublin.

One example I can give is Rowex Domerid. It is the same drug Domperidone as is in Motilium, Irish made, and up to 2 euros cheaper for 10.

I've seen it outside Dublin in pharmacies but no pharmacist I've gone to in Dublin stocks it or will stock it.

Is this simply an issue of trying to keep up margins.

There are obviously major savings to be had by going generic.

Regards
Gearoid


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## brid1977 (4 Sep 2008)

A pharmacist may correct me but I think this has to do with the discounts offered by companies for bulk orders - generic companies offer much less discount than big pharma.


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## Smashbox (4 Sep 2008)

Have you thought about buying online? I do and believe I save a lot overall, even taking into account postage and currency conversions


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## gipimann (4 Sep 2008)

I noticed this some time ago with Ibuprofen, sold under the brand Nurofen.  I got some generic ibuprofen in (I think) Carlow, much cheaper than the brand.   Couldn't get it in Dublin, and next time I was in Carlow, found I couldn't get it there any more either.

I buy ibuprofen in Sainsbury's when I'm in Newry or any of the big supermarkets when in the UK - usual price is 33p for 16 tablets (paid €3 for 12 branded tablets in an Irish pharmacy last week).


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## ClubMan (4 Sep 2008)

Smashbox said:


> Have you thought about buying online? I do and believe I save a lot overall, even taking into account postage and currency conversions


Is it legal to import controlled (?) drugs in this way?


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## truthseeker (5 Sep 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Is it legal to import controlled (?) drugs in this way?


 
I believe its not legal if its prescription drugs but it is legal for over the counter drugs - although I dont know how it works for drugs that require a prescription in Ireland but not in other countries?
I know that there are hayfever tablets I can buy over the counter in Ireland that are far far cheaper online in the generic version.


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## delgirl (5 Sep 2008)

gipimann said:


> I buy ibuprofen in Sainsbury's when I'm in Newry or any of the big supermarkets when in the UK - usual price is 33p for 16 tablets (paid €3 for 12 branded tablets in an Irish pharmacy last week).


I also noticed up North that Tesco are doing their own brand Aspirin and Paracetamol at a fraction of the price you would pay for Panadol or Aspro.

As far as I can recall, I paid something like 20p for a pack of 20 aspirin!

Why doesn't Tesco in the South sell the same products?  I've looked and couldn't find them.


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## ClubMan (5 Sep 2008)

delgirl said:


> I also noticed up North that Tesco are doing their own brand Aspirin and Paracetamol at a fraction of the price you would pay for Panadol or Aspro.
> 
> As far as I can recall, I paid something like 20p for a pack of 20 aspirin!
> 
> Why doesn't Tesco in the South sell the same products?  I've looked and couldn't find them.


Do all drugs (e.g. both over the counter and prescription) have to be given some sort of imprimatur (e.g. from the IMB or something) before being sold in _Ireland_? Maybe the ones not on sale here are not allowed?


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## Fatphrog (5 Sep 2008)

Medicines for use here require a product authorization (PA) from the IMB. This ensures that the Irish legislation regarding warning labels and pack sizes has been followed. For example, a 32 box of paracetamol which you can buy in Belfast would not be allowed here. UK legislation is generally more permissive in what can be bought OTC and from non-pharmacy outlets than here.


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## rob30 (5 Sep 2008)

I cannot understand how pharmacies work in ireland. there is so much scope for the government to save money.
In the UK, a GP must prescribe the generic medicine ( only some must be prescribed by trade name, as different formulations have different rates of release of the medication into the system, and a sudden change could affect the patient). 
The pharmacist then prescribes the cheapest type of that generic. 
Irish tax payers are paying a vast fortune over the odds for medication. And there are many irish generic companies that provide high quality generics.

Hopefully, with the sudden contraction in government finances, we will look at obvious savings for the health sector.


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## paulo99 (5 Sep 2008)

rob30 said:


> Hopefully, with the sudden contraction in government finances, we will look at obvious savings for the health sector.



I would love to think so, don't honestly see it happening. The idea that the government would actually take a real hard look at medicines is not a runner. To many Pharmaceutical companies in Ireland producing non-generic drugs. They will not want to upset them.

It will be as reported in SBP a few weeks ago, Government looking at saving money on office stationary in circular to staff.


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## Complainer (5 Sep 2008)

Any ideas how/where one can check for prices for cheaper generics? I'm on 75 mg of aspirin daily. From memory, I pay about €6 odd per month for this. Is there a cheaper option?


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## micmclo (5 Sep 2008)

€6 per month is hardly expensive.
I read this thread and thought people were spending huge amounts of drugs.
But if it's to save money off €6 per month, is this realy such a problem?

Not sure where to search, possibly a trip across the border?


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## Hillsalt (5 Sep 2008)

delgirl said:


> I also noticed up North that Tesco are doing their own brand Aspirin and Paracetamol at a fraction of the price you would pay for Panadol or Aspro.
> 
> As far as I can recall, I paid something like 20p for a pack of 20 aspirin!
> 
> Why doesn't Tesco in the South sell the same products?  I've looked and couldn't find them.



Asprin has not been sold over-the-counter in the Rep of Ireland for the last 2 or 3 years. I bought a big jar of it in USA recently.


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## Smashbox (6 Sep 2008)

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/

This crowd charges £7.49 delivery, but if you buy in bulk its still the same.

And heres a page for Asprin
http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/aspirin_v_467.html

Complainer, you said 75mg? 
*100 Dispersible Aspirin Tablets 75mg*

*49p*
Was: 99p[broken link removed]|[broken link removed] *YOU SAVE: 50p*

I get stuff sent over all the time, over the counter stuff, with no problem.


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## Rois (6 Sep 2008)

If you know anyone going to Spain get the drugs there eg motilium, aspirin, paracetamol etc .. only a fraction of the price you pay here.


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## Complainer (6 Sep 2008)

micmclo said:


> €6 per month is hardly expensive.
> I read this thread and thought people were spending huge amounts of drugs.
> But if it's to save money off €6 per month, is this realy such a problem?


Every little helps in these tough times. Also, it is likely to be €6 per month, every month for the rest of my life, so the savings will add up.


Smashbox said:


> http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/
> 
> This crowd charges £7.49 delivery, but if you buy in bulk its still the same.
> 
> ...


THanks. The delivery charge makes it a bit impractical, but it is interesting to see the prices. I'll certainly look out when I'm next in NI or UK.

I'm also on 40 mg Micardis, which appears to be about 2/3rds of the price I'm paying in my pharmacist. http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/micardis-tablet-40mg_4_15370.html
That crowd insist of having a UK perscription, so I don't have any options there.


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## Eithneangela (6 Sep 2008)

I can buy Bonviva, the once a  month tablet for osteoporosis, in France or Spain at the rate of €82 for 3. Exact same packaging and dosage as here and it is sold over the counter.  In Ireland it costs €60 for 1 tablet with the prescription renewed (at a cost of €50 for visit to doctor) every six months. Total rip-off.  My husband also buys his enteric-coated 75mg aspirin in the States at a fraction of the cost here (less than 2%).  Really makes me mad what we have to put up with here - so the sooner we all using market forces to make changes here, the better.


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## bond-007 (6 Sep 2008)

Why is it not possible to purchase pure aspirin OTC in pharmacists?


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## BOXtheFOX (6 Sep 2008)

Solpadeine is sold as Maxilief and is available in most chemists for circa €2 cheaper for a pack of 24.


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## NicolaM (6 Sep 2008)

Solpadeine formulation has now changed: no codeine in it.
It's now just paracetamol and caffeine: ie it's now a completely different medication to what it was before!!! (ie you may as well take panadol and a cup of coffee): and there's a big price difference between paracetamol and 'solpadeine', for essentially the same produce (bar the caffeine)
Had anyone else heard this?
I'm very unimpressed.

Nicola


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## Fatphrog (6 Sep 2008)

NicolaM said:


> Solpadeine formulation has now changed: no codeine in it.
> It's now just paracetamol and caffeine: ie it's now a completely different medication to what it was before!!! (ie you may as well take panadol and a cup of coffee): and there's a big price difference between paracetamol and 'solpadeine', for essentially the same produce (bar the caffeine)
> Had anyone else heard this?
> I'm very unimpressed.
> ...



Nicola, sorry but that is plain wrong. Solpadeine as sold in Irish pharmacies is unchanged. Maybe you saw a UK pack or "Solpadeine Headache"


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## z109 (6 Sep 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Why is it not possible to purchase pure aspirin OTC in pharmacists?


I wish I knew! Paracetamol does nothing for me, so I am reliant on aspirin for headaches/colds.

The last time I tried to buy some in a pharmacy I was told "Oh, they've stopped making that"!

I had to buy full brand aspirin instead.

It may be something to do with the fact that you can only buy a day and a bit's worth of anything without a prescription (12 tablets is it?) - as cheap generics come in bumper packs, the pharmacies can't sell them OTC?


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## bond-007 (6 Sep 2008)

I am in the same boat as you. I am allergic to paracetamol so aspirin is the only option for me. I was not aware that the paracetamol rules applied to aspirin. 

I am off to the USA next week so I shall obtain some sensibly size bottles.


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## BOXtheFOX (7 Sep 2008)

I tried to purchase the soluble Solpadeine in both France and Spain last year but could not get it, maybe it's banned, I don't know.  I find that I can take a paracetamol and sometimes it works where other times it has no effect. I often wonder is it me or the tablet that is the cause of this.


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## NicolaM (7 Sep 2008)

Sorry, solpadeine formulation has changed in the UK (recently bought some there and was surprised that changed ingredients)

Nicola


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## parsi (9 Sep 2008)

paulo99 said:


> It will be as reported in SBP a few weeks ago, Government looking at saving money on office stationary in circular to staff.



I haven't seen a paper circular in years - its all online nowadays....


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## Smashbox (13 Sep 2008)

NicolaM said:


> Sorry, solpadeine formulation has changed in the UK (recently bought some there and was surprised that changed ingredients)


 
I bought some last month in an Asda pharmacy in Nnorthamptonshire and they are the 'proper' Solpadeine formula.

The Solpadeine 'Headache' type combines paracetamol and caffeine.

[broken link removed]

The others still have codeine in them eg. Soluable, Plus, Max


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## banchang (25 Oct 2008)

Smashbox said:


> http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/
> 
> This crowd charges £7.49 delivery, but if you buy in bulk its still the same.
> 
> ...


 Europe delivery charge is GBP7.49 - RoI being Europe ? Expensivo ?


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## Purple (25 Oct 2008)

Pharmacists should offer generics instead of brand name drugs if the doctor writes “generic” on the prescription however it comes down to the person paying the bill; ask the doctor to prescribe the generic version and ask the pharmacist to dispense it. If the pharmacist doesn’t have the generic take your business elsewhere (if you went into Fast-Fit for a set of Nankang tyres and they didn’t have any would you pay for Pirelli’s instead?)


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## bond-007 (25 Oct 2008)

In America when a you take a prescription to a pharmacist, the first thing you are asked is "Do you want generics?" I can't see any logical reason why pharmacists don't offer generics.


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## Purple (25 Oct 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I can't see any logical reason why pharmacists don't offer generics.


I can; they make more money selling them and the state is rubbish as controling costs to the tax payer.


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## Complainer (25 Oct 2008)

Purple said:


> Pharmacists should offer generics instead of brand name drugs if the doctor writes “generic” on the prescription however it comes down to the person paying the bill; ask the doctor to prescribe the generic version and ask the pharmacist to dispense it. If the pharmacist doesn’t have the generic take your business elsewhere


It may be a case of getting the doctor to perscribe the generic drug, rather than any particular brand name. But generics are not available for every drug. As far as I can make out, my own drug of choice Micardis is in patent until 2014, so there won't be generics until after that.

Can anyone help interpret the content of this spreadsheet which appears to document the deal between the HSE, the wholesalers and the pharmacist;



What is meant by ;
Reimbursement price?
Price to Wholesaler?
New RP?
New PTW?


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## Protocol (27 Oct 2008)

As far as I know, the reimbursement price is what the pharmacist gets from the HSE.

The two new prices: Reimbursement and Price to Wholesaler.


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## Protocol (27 Oct 2008)

The way is used to work is as follows:

Govt and suppliers agree drug price, say 100.

Wholesaler buys at 100, sells to pharmacy at 117.64.

Pharmacy adds 0% marging for medical cards, 50% margin for the DPS scheme.

Pharmacy also gets discount from the wholesaler.


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## SlurrySlump (27 Oct 2008)

I was in Portugal a few weeks back and decided to purchase some Paracetamol. I went in to a pharmacist in Faro and was offered Panadol straight off. I think they were about €2.50 for 12.  I asked had they a generic version and I was given 20 for €1.33.
Not a huge saving as I can get 12 Paracetamol in Boots (Boots brand) for 80c. I also have some 10% discount vouchers for Boots and I also get points on my Boots card.


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## Complainer (27 Oct 2008)

Protocol said:


> As far as I know, the reimbursement price is what the pharmacist gets from the HSE.
> 
> The two new prices: Reimbursement and Price to Wholesaler.


Thanks - so the reimbursement price would be what the pharmacist gets from the HSE for holders of full medical cards.

It looks like the 'new reimbursement' price in that spreadsheet is showing significant decreases in prices for many drugs. I'm guessing that this spreadsheet related to the now-aborted new pricing scheme brought out this year.



Protocol said:


> The way is used to work is as follows:
> 
> Govt and suppliers agree drug price, say 100.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification. For the DPS scheme, I presume the HSE refund only applies after the customer has exceeded his monthly limit? I never hit my limit, though I do present my card when purchasing - does this make any difference?


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## bond-007 (27 Oct 2008)

Nope. Makes no difference unless you exceed the limit.


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## jellymonster (28 Oct 2008)

bond-007 said:


> In America when a you take a prescription to a pharmacist, the first thing you are asked is "Do you want generics?" I can't see any logical reason why pharmacists don't offer generics.


 
In Ireland, if a doctor specifies a particular brand of medication on a prescription, that is what the pharmacist must dispense. Generic substitution is not permitted! The IPU have suggested that pharmacists be allowed substitute a generic cheaper medication thus saving the patient and the state money but so far the government have refused to allow it!

Ask the doctor writing a prescription to prescribe by generic and then the pharmacist can dispense the cheaper product.


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## z109 (14 Nov 2008)

Bought some Tesco aspirin in the UK the other week. 13p for a packet of 16 (yes, that is pence). The paracetamol was a similar low price (18p, I think).


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## dotorg (28 Nov 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I can't see any logical reason why pharmacists don't offer generics.



Legally, pharamacies are only permitted to dispense the exact drug brand written on the prescription. Anything else is breaking the law

But, if you ask for a generic and they have it, most pharmacists will give you it.

If a generic or no brand is specified on the prescription, the pharmacist can give any brand they have in stock.

Most pharmacies won't keep many generics in stock as very very few people ask for generics. For the drugs that aren't dispensed as often, they often only get the main brand as they is the one most commonly prescribed by doctors.



Bottom Line: If you want a generic, ask your doctor to write that on the prescription. then ask your pharmacy to order that brand in if they don't have it in stock


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## dotorg (28 Nov 2008)

brid1977 said:


> A pharmacist may correct me but I think this has to do with the discounts offered by companies for bulk orders - generic companies offer much less discount than big pharma.



Actually most generics companies give better discounts and deals than the big name manufacturers. The reason they don't stock them is demand


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