# Travel agents double booked our holiday?



## TillyD (16 Apr 2013)

Hi, 

Falcon holidays have doubled booked our holiday and are only offering us a lower standard of accommodation. They said if we see something else online with them, that even if it's the same standard of hotel (star/key wise) we will have to pay the extra money.

The problem is we booked our holiday last August and there is no way I will even get a 2* hotel for the same value we booked at for two weeks in August. 

Can they do this? 

All advice greatly appreciated.


----------



## mathepac (16 Apr 2013)

TillyD said:


> ...Can they do this? ...


T&Cs on booking form, web-site or brochure?


----------



## oldnick (16 Apr 2013)

As a life-long travel agent I confess surprise at what you say - that ,after confirming a certain class of hotel they told you that they will only give you a lower standard or  the same standard at a higher costs.

The terms and conditions of a tour operator are not legally binding in many circumstances - especially when they conflict with fairness, reasonableness and are not clearly pointed out. 

Can you state what the tour operator told you was the reason for cancelling the booking.

(I assume it was the tour operator, judging by the first and last letters of the name,  and not a  travel agent despite the title of your post ? )


----------



## TillyD (16 Apr 2013)

Apologies, it was the tour operator. 

I booked a 4 start hotel with them online, they have offered me a 3star plus, which looks like a right kip and very poor ratings with trip advisor. If I want a 4 star hotel with the same  facilities ie kiddie disco, play area, close to everything I have to pay the extra. 

I booked my holiday fot 2400. 
The same holiday would cost me 3.5 - 4 k if I were to book it now. There is no way I can afford an extra €1000. 

They have admitted they made the error, they previously blamed the hotel but they said they have made the error. I know I have to be one of the first to book because I booked last August. 

T&C does give them the right to do whatever they like really.


----------



## Booter (16 Apr 2013)

TillyD said:


> I booked my holiday fot 2400.
> The same holiday would cost me 3.5 - 4 k if I were to book it now. There is no way I can afford an extra €1000.
> 
> They have admitted they made the error, they previously blamed the hotel but they said they have made the error. I know I have to be one of the first to book because I booked last August.
> ...



I smell a rat with their "error". You've got a really good price on your holiday by booking early (when there was loads of availability), but now, months later they've double booked. Why then should it be you who loses out? They have, according to them, allowed a booking to go through when there was no availability. Whichever unlucky customer made that booking should be advised as such and offered a refund. Its unlikely to be you, as you booked so long ago. Sounds like they are trying to wriggle out of the cheapest booking they made, regardless who who booked first. I'd go back and ask them when it was that they noticed the double booking, and to confirm in writing whether there was in fact availability at the time you made your booking.


----------



## Bronte (17 Apr 2013)

I don't know the ins and outs of your terms and conditions.  But if you pay the extra now I wonder can you sue them afterwards for the extra cost in the small claims court as they have not sold you what you purchased.  

It's very shabby behaviour.  Maybe a 'talk to Joe' is another solution, sounds like the kind of thing he likes.  Or just threaten Falcon with Joe, might do the trick.  They don't want bad publicity about their poor customer service.


----------



## oldnick (17 Apr 2013)

You may need a lawyer -and there's at least one good one on AAM - who can advise on how much bull the following is...

I used the argument below  when dealing with naughty tour operators. My position was strengthened by the fact that tour ops don't want to fight with travel agents -plus travel agents can find out the truth of what the tour op is claiming is the reason for  a cancellation/change etc.
When dealing directly with a customer tour ops can dig their heels in and delay and delay. 

Anyway...

According to the booking conditions on F. H.'s website  the tour op can cancel through reasons of force majeure or if there are not enough participants on a tour/flight to warrant it going ahead. There is no compensation for the above reasons if you are notified over 8 weeks in advance.

If the hotel had cancelled their contract with F then F could claim that this was unexpected and even with due care could not have been prevented by F. That would be F.M.  Even if the hotel had overbooked  this would not have been the fault of F and they may have claimed Force Majeure (They would be wrong - but tour ops use the force majeure excuse for almost anything)

However, if F made a pricing error or if F themselves had overbooked their allocation in the hotel then this is not force majeure.

A pricing error that was blatantly such - e.g. a brochure  price of forty euros for a family holiday  instead of 2.400 - would allow the tour op or any supplier to claim the usual E&O exemption. You state that you signed the contract on the basis of a price that  people would regard as reasonable, not an obvious error.

Looking at booking condition no 9 there is a vagueness in F's right to change ,cancel etc 
-especially in sections(a), but  in following sections F goes into detail about force majeure and min. no. of participants.

I think  -according to what you say -
- that F were negligent 
- it was entirely their error
- it was notified to you nine months after the contract
and that they cannot use the main two reasons (plus the standard "error and omission" argument) to get out of their contract.

There are statutory rights and "reasonable duty of care" aspects that F will try to avoid addressing.

It all depends on your level of ire and stamina whether you'll fight this. This is always the case with big companies trying to avoid their responsibilities. 

If you do write make it succinct, no emotion - just the facts and that you claiming the right to travel at the price agreed because there is no contractual reason not to.

Avoid waffle. Something I'm bad at -as you can see from the above !


----------



## TillyD (17 Apr 2013)

Falcon have admitted they made an error by entering 80 apartments into the system instead of 10 that the hotel allocated to them. One employee yesterday told me that I was the first to book the hotel in the rep of Ireland last year. A supervisor has told me that there is no way she could have known this or told me but she did. 

I find it hard to believe that I could be the first to be cancelled when we booked so early but then we would have got the cheapest price too. 

They have now offered us a hotel suite but it has no cooking facilities and this is something we really need with two small children. 

She said they have nothing else to offer me unless I go outside the resort. I told her I am willing to travel anytime between July and August but all the best places seem to be gone. They have offered me my deposit back too but there is no way we will get the same standard of hotel for that price. 

I feel I am being cancelled because we were the cheapest option to cancel and I believe the girl yesterday when she said I was the first to make the booking for the hotel for those dates.


----------



## TillyD (17 Apr 2013)

And Bronte I took your advice and rang Joe too. 

Thanks oldnic for the above information, very useful.


----------



## oldnick (17 Apr 2013)

I am more convinced than previously that you have a case in law. The booking conditions do not allow for a complete cock-up on the tour operators part .

Send a  letter that you are going to pursue the matter legally as you are advised that the T&C do not allow F to cancel or greatly alter a contract.

You have nothing to lose at this stage.


----------



## Leper (17 Apr 2013)

Just my tuppenceha'pny worth and not answering the question you asked. Oldnick, as usual, gave a terrific synopsis of the situation and the legal answer to your situation. I reckon Oldnick is right and most likely you will win the legal battle although it will take some time and effort (not to mention the expense and worry).

In the meantime, can you have your money refunded to you in total without any admission by you about any course you intend taking?

I reckon for the amount of money you mentioned you can book a private house/apartment/villa in a decent resort, eat like kings and still have plenty of change. At least, you and your family will have a holiday.


----------



## TillyD (17 Apr 2013)

Thank you oldnic, 

My head is fried looking at holidays at this stage. There is nothing that suits us. Falcon rang back today and more or else said there is nothing in the area for us and I know from talking to them that they'd be happy if I just took my deposit and disappeared. 

They cannot offer me my original hotel, they can get nothing like it. Best they can get is a hotel room compared to a one bedroom apartment. 

So where do I take it from here?? The only time I dealt with a solicitor was when we bought a house. 

Leper if you can find me anywhere in a good resort, within school hols, lively resort, for two weeks, that has a one bed apt for 2.4k please share


----------



## wednesday (17 Apr 2013)

Hi TillyD, I got an excellent deal with lowcostholidays.ie, really pleased with myself - might be worth a look?

No affiliation just very happy with the price


----------



## reddanmm (17 Apr 2013)

Hi tillyd i agree with leper i booked an apartment and flts last year for 2 adults and 2 children and transfers for 1800  euros . We went to tenerife first 2 weeks in august . 
Would never go though a travel agent again . Booked ryanair flights and apartment through holiday lettings . Much better class of apartment had washing machine and a proper kitchen  facilities. Also had sat tv . 
I didn't book it till June


----------



## oldnick (17 Apr 2013)

There is no need to immediately go to a lawyer. Just write that letter now stating that either you are given the accommodation that F contracted to give you at the priec agreed OR offer suitable alternative accommodation at the same price which must include  xxxxx and be of the same or superior standard OR offer compensation  of €xxx
(the last part is the trickiest part . I'd say €500 -any more will involve a battle.)

Failure to offer any of the three will result in you taking legal action and naturally you reserve the right in this event to seek a more appropriate level of compensation as ,at this late stage of the booking season it is now impossible to fight that which F had contracted with you at anywhere near the price agreed.

They will reply curtly telling you about T&C. That's what the staff are told to stay. they have no legal training. it's a mantra which usually works on most people.

I think you have a 30% chance of success with that letter but Leper ,again, is right . It'll be a long battle. But don't let it upset you - start looking for that other holiday and see what RF say.  If it's a No then maybe a visit to a lawyer may be needed.

It's late and I've somewhat gibbered.Sorry if hard to follow.


----------



## Bronte (18 Apr 2013)

Can you tell us the location of the holiday and maybe others can suggest somewhere else for the price you want. I hear Egypt is cheap for example. If you drive to say France you can certainly rent for the price you mentioned a one bed say with Pierre & Vacances. There are loads of ferries from Ireland or you can do the landbridge. First two weeks in July and last two weeks in August are cheaper than the real peak in general. Italians go on holidays in August etc so avoid it then. Ryanair go to many sun destinations so you could fly drive say to Spain or Portugal.


----------



## oldnick (18 Apr 2013)

If you're nervous about a lawyer -small claims court is relatively easy - though you won't get results for over a year. Either way write that letter -give them a week or so- and then start looking and booking elsewhere as per Bronte's and others' suggestions.


----------



## TillyD (18 Apr 2013)

Falcon rang back, they can get us nothing. She said they don't have to compensate us because they are giving me more than 8 weeks notice. She said I can write a letter of compliant but it won't make any difference as it will go to her, she will show it to the Irish director but he is already aware of the situation.
She then told me that we were now going around in circles at this stage.


----------



## oldnick (18 Apr 2013)

TIlly - get your money back but still make it clear that you will take this further because they cannot cancel by giving eight weeks notice for no valid reason. There ARE reasons to which allows them to cancel (force majeure, too few participants) without compensation. Just making a mistake is not a valid reason to cancel, even if they claim it is.
And there are reasons to increase the price - currency/fuel surcharge. Again, this is not what this is about.

But for F to say that  one can make a contract and without any valid reason only one side can cancel it is not correct.  I'm not a lawyer but i know more than the F staff including the director to whom she refers ( here I must admit that  about I was a director of that company ,albeit a junior one and only for a couple of years. Prior and after that I was a travel agent - and also one of F's biggest bookers. )

In fairness to the staff ,even the senior staff  actually *do* believe that they can form a contract, make a mistake purely through their own negligence, wait nine months before realising that mistake and then tell you to shove off, regardless of the extra cost and distress to you.

Don't let it consume you. Write that letter, apply to small claims court  (almost free)
and let the matter rest till small claims people contact F, get their reply to which you respond. Takes time. But far far cheaper than a lawyer. Mind you, maybe for a few quid you may want better advice than mine.

On another note - Yes, as posters suggest, you can book an apt and  fly out and -maybe for a similar cost.That's not what you were looking forward to for so long. You had booked a top class location with many many facilities included.


----------



## oldnick (18 Apr 2013)

Just to go on...
A) The package holiday act - 18 2 (c) - _the consumer is entitled to be compensated by the organiser for non-performance  etc etc_
except ... and it goes on about:-
- force majeure ,min.no of participants.

B) "Unfair contracts"  -am in a rush and can't find relevant act .Basically, one party cannot dictate onerous ,unreasonable or unfair conditions which leaves the other party at a  disadvantage.


----------



## orka (18 Apr 2013)

TillyD said:


> Falcon rang back, they can get us nothing.


No but they can 'evict' someone else who booked more recently than you! - who probably paid a higher price and can afford to replace the holiday. Have you asked them if they can do that? I would definitely threaten the small claims court and suggest to them to ensure that they keep good records of who booked when and for how much so when they come to defend themselves, they can show that they 'evicted' in a fair manner - which I presume should be last-in-first-out and not 'keep those who paid most'. Ask them to document in writing their process for deciding who got shafted and who kept their holiday.


----------



## Seagull (18 Apr 2013)

Small claims court won't work, as Falcon have/will repay anything you've paid them.


----------



## Time (18 Apr 2013)

Also travel agents/tour operators have clauses stating that they will only submit to arbitration where there is a dispute and not the courts.


----------



## oldnick (18 Apr 2013)

Tour operators and travel agents are taken to court. I've been taken to court and acted as a witness in court cases involving customers and tour ops.
Again, this is an example of a condition in a contract not having real legal validity.

As regards small claims courts I'm on less knowledgeable ground here. But OP is not claiming a  refund -she is claiming the additional cost arising from a  failure of  the service provider. Ten years ago my company was taken to the small claims court because clients claimed hotel was so bad they had to move elsewhere and she was claiming the extra cost. (Client had signed booking form with the usual "must-go-to-arbitration")

Anyway it only costs 20/30 euro to make the application (can be done online)>


----------



## Time (18 Apr 2013)

> (Client had signed booking form with the usual "must-go-to-arbitration")


How did that pan out in court?


----------



## oldnick (18 Apr 2013)

Didn't get that far..

I got the usual letter from SCC stating they had received enclosed complaint and asked for my response.
i responded( enclosing some good comments from recent clients at that same hotel)

And then the claimant wrote her comments about  my response. The official sent me her comments accompanied by a couple of his questions to which i replied.

And then I heard nothing else.  I'm guessing that the official (judge?) decided there was no merit to the customers claim, but I was surprised I heard nothing. The whole thing took months -which is one of the problems with SCCs.


----------



## TillyD (18 Apr 2013)

Thanks again for all your replies especially oldnic. 

I got another call this evening, they can offer us the hotel I booked but it's two weeks earlier, which is not a problem for us but they want an extra €700!!! They said it is more expensive to travel two weeks earlier. 

Wouldn't you think the fact that they made this awful error that they would forget about the €700. It's just terrible customer service. 

After searching online, I can get the same hotel with half board for an extra €700 so we have decided to go with this option. Half board was not included with the Falcon booking. 

I am 100% going to go ahead with some kind of legal action. Even though Sylvia from Falcon has informed me she has a legal background and they are doing nothing wrong. 

We will also be travelling the same dates that we had planned to travel and while I am there it will be interesting to see when the thompson/falcon families booked their holidays before August 2012. 

Thanks again for all the advice guys.


----------



## mandelbrot (18 Apr 2013)

Tilly, have you asked them to confirm to you in writing that you were not one of the first 10 (or however many places they actually had available) to book?

If you were first in it seems cut and dried that they haven't a leg to stand on, if somehow you weren't then that's different. Surely it all hinges on that and it's a question of fact.


----------



## Leper (19 Apr 2013)

TillyD, I am unable to get a PM to you regarding booking a holiday privately from some of my contacts.  But, there are websites where you can book.  I recommend you book through an Irish holiday home owner.  Word of mouth speaks well of holiday home owners and I am sure you will have no difficulty contacting one.

Regards
Lep


----------



## Leo (19 Apr 2013)

Time said:


> Also travel agents/tour operators have clauses stating that they will only submit to arbitration where there is a dispute and not the courts.


 
I've read on AAM numerous times in the past that you can't sign away your statutory rights.


----------



## TillyD (20 Apr 2013)

The holiday is officially cancelled. Falcon could not get us a one bed apt in the resort (mainland spain) we had originally booked, offered us a 2 bedroom in Lanzarote though 

We are putting a claim through with the small claims online for €25. I just don't believe that we should be the ones out of pocket 8 months after signing our contract due to an error that Falcon holidays made. 

We have booked directly with the hotel and ryanair flights for earlier dates. It's costing us an extra €700. We will forget about it now and move on until we hear word back from the small claims. 

I will update the thread then. 

Thanks for the replies and PMs over the last few days. 

Tilly.


----------



## luna (1 Jun 2013)

How has this gone for you TillyD?


----------

