# Management Fee



## eh_what (6 Oct 2005)

Hello. Management fees for appartments-does this cover the building insurance as well, i realise that contents will deffo be separate, tks


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## mf1 (6 Oct 2005)

Yes - the entire property comprising all the apartments will be covered by one "block" policy and the management fee covers the charge. 

mf


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## eh_what (6 Oct 2005)

thanks , saved me another phone call to my extremely unlikeable estate agent


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## freelancer (6 Oct 2005)

I feel a bit hard done by on my management fee. I asked the estate agent twice what it would be. Then the solicitor told me I had to pay a sum e400 higher than the one quoted to me a few weeks before. Has anyone else encountered anything like this? Should I have asked the solr to check that out? What are estate agents for if they can't provide you with the correct answer on these things?


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## scallywag (6 Oct 2005)

Don't know about the solicitor thing, but I know from experience on a residents committee that management fees can be very different from what a builder or selling agent tells you.

Basically, the management fee has to cover building insurance, cleaners, people to put out the bins, fixing intercoms, maintaining lifts, gates etc. Also it has to cover future replacement of carpets, painting, even new lifts eventually.

It's easy for the selling agents of a new block to set an attractive management fee, but when reality kicks in the residents committee will need to adjust it to a realistic level.

Where the real problems start, is when there isn't a strong residents committee watching over the management company. Then the management company can just waste money, and pay themselves too much.

So be on your guard when quoted a management fee for a brand new apartment...


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## AKA (7 Oct 2005)

How does the management fee work in new estates that are mixed - houses and duplexes?

Bought a new 2 bed house in meath.

Management fee €300 for 2 bed.

What obligation are you under to pay it the second year?  I know you become part of the management company.  

What does the €300 cover?  It really can't cost that much to cut the grass, I know of a similar sized estate in South County Dublin.  Each house pays €70 a year to employ a gardner to take care of the green spaces and the place looks great.  No weeds or anything on the grass.

The older estates in the area don't pay the charge.  I don't mind paying the cost of maintaining the area to a high standard.

Can the County Council be forced to take over the maintenance of the housing estate when the builder is finished?   Or does it differ because there are duplexes on the site.  There would be more houses than duplexes and the duplexes are free standing...ie. they are not attached at all to any of the houses.

Read about failed management companies in the paper recently where people would pay, the management companies were in debt etc. etc.  And I've also heard of fees going up and up.

Anyone any thoughts on this?


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## ClubMan (7 Oct 2005)

Our estate comprises a number of 2, 3 and 4 bed terraced townhouses most with open plan garden/parking frontage but some without. Some have bigger garden areas than others. Some are bounded by larger areas of landscaped/planted common areas than others. In spite of the fact that some houses/householders arguable get mode benefit from some of the services (e.g. gardening in particular) the management company budget (drawn up by the agent engaged to do the day to day management) is split equally between all units so that everybody pays the same annual charge. I think that this is common enough even if some householders may feel a little hard done by.

If you can get agreement among most or all of the householders/management company shareholders then you could try lobbying the local authority and/or elected representatives to have the development taken in charge to do away with the private management aspect and the management charge. However, it can be hard to get agreement on this.

The management company should draw up a budget each year explaining where the money goes and setting the charge for the year. The company may leave this to the agent that they engage to do the day to day management. Company members have the right to query these charges and to vote on any motions at general meetings.

Don't forget that householders are members/owners of the management company (once the developer has signed the company over and the development is finished) and thus have a lot of control over what happens. Don't confuse the management company with the management agent which may be engaged by the company to deal with the day to day management. Use the search to find previous explanations of the difference and general discussion about management companies, agents and the issues involved.


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## asdfg (7 Oct 2005)

County Councils do not in general take over estates from builders anymore. A
management company is set up that is eventually controlled by residents. Before the management company takes over it should ensure that the estate is left as if the council were taking over. The management company is taking the place of the council

Thinks to look out for include:  

1. Roads are tarmaced 
2. Landscaping is completed as expected. Trees are growing (not dead). Trees that are damaged are replaced with similar trees 
3. Kerbs are not damaged 
4. All building regulations are complied with. Statement from builder may suffice. What happens if builder goes to the wall disappears etc.
5. Guarantee that builder will return to fix any problems for a certain period (say a year) and a year after a certain probelem if fixed. Get in writing. 

I'm sure there are many many more

THe management company may have to employ a surveyor to complie a list of problems (snag list). They should be aware of building regulations (ask them). 

Remember if a pipe on the road breaks etc the management company (the residents are responsible). 
The management company will need to set up a plan to deal with long term eventulaties. 
If a problem exists on say one road on the estate are all going to pay for repairs. 
I think the managemeny company will also have to take out public liability insurance as for all intents and purpose this is private property. What happens if a child playing football twists his ankle on grass in a common area that a delivery truck has driven over and left tyre marks all over the grass. 

This area - management companies - is fairly new. No regulations in force legally that I am aware off. The management company should talk to County Council. They may be able to help. Try and talk to someone in the council who would have experience of dealing with builders in the past prior to handover of the estate to the council.


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## ClubMan (7 Oct 2005)

asdfg said:
			
		

> I think the managemeny company will also have to take out public liability insurance as for all intents and purpose this is private property.


Yes - and this is normally the case and it is normally one of the largest single items in the itemised annual budget even though insurance premiums have been falling in recent years.



> This area - management companies - is fairly new. No regulations in force legally that I am aware off.


There have been calls for new/clearer legislation and regulation of this area in recent times - e.g. [broken link removed].


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## AKA (7 Oct 2005)

asdfg said:
			
		

> County Councils do not in general take over estates from builders anymore.
> 
> Remember if a pipe on the road breaks etc the management company (the residents are responsible).
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for all the information.

Seems unfair that new householders should have to pay the management fee and older housing estates don't have to.

When did the practice of the management company come into place and can the management company hand over to the County Council?  For the houses in the estate.  The few duplexes and apartment blocks would have to have buildings cover I know that.

Does anyone know about the legislation in this area?  

The builder had to pay a levy to the local authority for services...anywhere for 10K per house.  Are you sure the management company is responsible for pipe repairs?  I thought this would be the responsiblity of the water department of the local authority.

I wouldn't mind paying the fee if every estate new or old was paying it but it just seems they are trying to hit first time buyers in every way they can.  

I've seen articles like that in Sunday Business that describe the problems that some of these management companies run into.  Disasters from what I can see with fees not being paid by the majority of houses or substantially increased fees in the second year and subsequent years.

Must contact the county council and see what I can find out.


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## ClubMan (8 Oct 2005)

AKA said:
			
		

> Seems unfair that new householders should have to pay the management fee and older housing estates don't have to.


In some cases it has to do with the title of the land on which the estate is developed on as far as I know. At least that's what I heard about our estate anyway.



> The builder had to pay a levy to the local authority for services...anywhere for 10K per house. Are you sure the management company is responsible for pipe repairs? I thought this would be the responsiblity of the water department of the local authority.


In some cases the local authority will take some of the services in charge but will not take the estate in charge overall. For example in our estate waste management and sewage/main drainage are managed by the local authority and the developer had to lodge a bond with the local authority to cover problems that might (and did!) arise with these and required remedial work after the development was completed. On the other hand roads maintenance, electricity and many other issues are the responsibility of our management company (and dealt with day to day by the management agent which they engage on our behalf).


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