# transfer of property prior to bankruptcy .



## joseph63 (1 Mar 2014)

Hello all,
             I would like advice on the following.
1) if one had transferred property for love and affection in excess of 3 years prior to Irish Bankruptcy would it be safe from creditors, if not how many years required.?.

2) how long does property have to be transferred in the English/Scottish system to be safe from creditors.?.

3)How long does one have to inform your creditors prior to declaring Bankruptcy in IRELAND, ENGLAND or SCOTLAND  ?.

Many thanks in advance,Joseph63


----------



## LondonBoy (3 Mar 2014)

joseph63

1) any transfer under 2 years can be voided by an assignee in bankruptcy, 3-5 years you need to prove you did not defraud your creditors in the transfer. The onus is on you to prove your transfer was not fraud. Any fraudulent transfer can be over turned if proven and there is no timeframe in this regard.

The only good thing is after 5 years your bankruptcy SOA does not have to mention transfers outside that timeframe.

2) Irish And UK law similar in regards time frames on transfers

3) 2/3 months written notices by registered mail if your COMI is outside Ireland


----------



## joseph63 (3 Mar 2014)

LondonBoy,
Many thanks for your advice.
Joseph63


----------



## Steve Thatcher (3 Mar 2014)

joseph63 said:


> Hello all,
> I would like advice on the following.
> 1) if one had transferred property for love and affection in excess of 3 years prior to Irish Bankruptcy would it be safe from creditors, if not how many years required.?.
> 
> ...




You never have to tell your creditors you are going bankrupt, they only need to be able to ascertain where you live, and hence all you need to do is tell them a change of address.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


----------



## Bronte (4 Mar 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> You never have to tell your creditors you are going bankrupt, they only need to be able to ascertain where you live, and hence all you need to do is tell them a change of address.


 
So there's no question on the forms on whether you disposed of a property recently?


----------



## joseph63 (4 Mar 2014)

sorry just a further point.....

if one transfers a property within the 3-5 years timeframe prior to bankruptcy 
for love and affection 

this person who gets the transferred property then sells it on to an unrelated third party for market value...

can the official receiver then void both the transfer and the sale?or only one?or none?

many thanks


----------



## LondonBoy (4 Mar 2014)

Bronte

Of Course the OR will want to know about asset transfers.
My point was that the Bankruptcy SOA forms only specifically refers to transfers within the last 5 years.
Any transfer within that period is opened to questioning by your OR.
If the 5 year period has elapsed and of course you are not obliged to mention said transfers it is up to OR to find out by investigation, any information.
That is very extreme as OR do not have time nor funds to investigate cases.
SOA as treated as bona fide until proven otherwise.


----------



## LondonBoy (4 Mar 2014)

joseph63

Unfortunately the OR has the powers to seek recovery in the courts of any financial gain proven to be fraudulent prior to bankruptcy.
The person who received the asset  and subsequently sold it (at market value or not) and made a profit will be a target for the OR as beneficiary of fraud.


----------



## joseph63 (4 Mar 2014)

Londonboy,
Would it be the property or the sale price the OR would go after?

If one had property outside the EU do they need to disclose it to the OR?if the answer is yes but you didnt what are the chances of it being uncovered?

Once again many thanks for your help
joseph63


----------



## mandelbrot (4 Mar 2014)

Am I the only one that has a bit of a concern about the "how do I defraud my creditors" tone of this thread?!


----------



## LondonBoy (4 Mar 2014)

joseph63

1st answer,  is the sale proceeds made from the transfer 

If you only take 1 piece of free advice, do not go down a road built on lies and subterfuge.
Your whole application and protection afforded by Bankruptcy will become void if discovered.
Your are either prepared for an application and disclosure, or you wait until a time that suits.


----------



## LondonBoy (4 Mar 2014)

madelbrot

The law affords both sides equal opportunity in preparing cases.
To have knowledge of the law is not a crime or an attempt to defraud.
To use the law as a tool, is proper in advising any clients, be they Debtors or Creditors


----------



## joseph63 (4 Mar 2014)

LondonBoy,
Thanks for the advice,it is very much appreciated!
Joseph63


----------



## Bronte (5 Mar 2014)

mandelbrot said:


> Am I the only one that has a bit of a concern about the "how do I defraud my creditors" tone of this thread?!


 
Doesn't mean it's not going on.  

Remember that builder who went bankrupt, xxxx I think it was, now back living in the house he gave to his Son in law.  People are learning from the big boys.  

Anyway so far on this thread, it's only people asking what is legal and not legal, that's good tax planning and good avoiding of jail if caught doing anything illegal planning.


----------



## LondonBoy (5 Mar 2014)

Bronte

"People are learning from the big boys"
To be fair, I think everyone learnt from our Pillar Banks.
They lied to our financially inept government, saddled our citizens by doubling the national debt to fund their balance sheets.
And finally used our money to fund their retirement pensions.

I think history will prove these boys where the "Big Boys" !!


----------



## Steve Thatcher (5 Mar 2014)

LondonBoy said:


> joseph63
> 
> 1st answer,  is the sale proceeds made from the transfer
> 
> ...



Great advice

Steve Thatcher


----------

