# Team sports - participation levels



## Deiseblue (1 Dec 2012)

Interesting Ipsos MRBI report in the Irish Times.

Participation levels in Soccer at 12% outstrips Gaelic football 6% , Hurling/camogie 3% & Rugby 2% combined.

Soccer is the only team sport where participation levels have risen since 1987 - 12% from 10%.

I must admit that I am suprised that given the huge popularity of Rugby that participation levels remain static at 2%.


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## micmclo (2 Dec 2012)

Back in the mid nineties basketball swept the country

Great sport and you can have mixed teams

It's only a fraction of what it once was and there was a lot of mismanagement of the millions they were given


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## Delboy (2 Dec 2012)

Not sure if you have kids Deise, but would you let them play rugby?
I would'nt.....it's gone way way too physical

As for soccer, that rise surprises me. In my home county, the junior soccer league has 1 less division than when I played in the mid 90's.


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## Deiseblue (2 Dec 2012)

No child of mine has ever nor will ever play rugby - I indoctrinated them early !

I guess it depends where you come from but the junior soccer scene in Waterford is huge & extremely well organised as it is in Dublin & in fairness to the FAI the facilities have improved tremendously over the last 10/20 years.


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## Leper (3 Dec 2012)

I have got to hand it to many of those coaching in underage soccer.  The FAI seem to have got it right.  Soccer is a relatively easy game to play.  It makes the participants think and nearly every club welcmes you.

GAA is popular also.  You dont have to be able to think (e.g. hurlers who have to think are too slow).  Gaelic footballers just need good hands nowadays (I jest) but again the GAA welcomes everybody.

Rugby on the other hand is still elitist.  There are exceptions in Limerick for example.  Rugby does not have rules it has laws.  Therefore, immediately it is set apart from the above two.  As for new members . . . sin scéal eile even still.


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## Betsy Og (3 Dec 2012)

Soccer has a few advantages in that you can play it in your school uniform on tarmac or concrete. In a place where there was no underage soccer team (and v few adult teams even), soccer was all we played at school- even though we were gaelic football mad in terms of organised sport.

So I'm surprised soccer isnt even a higher precentage. The big thing (as someone involved both with the GAA and underage soccer) is not so much which sport people are playing, but that they are playing at all. Up to maybe u16 its feasible to play nearly all the main team sports, and it should be encouraged, kids will learn different things in different codes. 

The enemy is not other codes, its the playstation & xbox, TV, obesity, schoools that dont allow kids to run in the yard (ridiculous).


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## Liamos (3 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> IRugby on the other hand is still elitist. There are exceptions in Limerick for example. Rugby does not have rules it has laws. Therefore, immediately it is set apart from the above two. As for new members . . . sin scéal eile even still.


 
I didn't get this impression at all. My 6 yr old son plays GAA and joined the local rugby club (in Dublin) in September. The welcome couldn't have been nicer, he loves it, and three of his class mates have joined on his recommendation.


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## TarfHead (3 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> Rugby on the other hand is still elitist. There are exceptions in Limerick for example.


 
I played rugby in school and then in a club 'til my early thirties. I have never seen or heard of someone being turned away from a club because of their accent or address. I spent two seasons playing with Dundalk RFC and played with solicitors, bankers, farmers, labourers and brewers. I spent the rest of my time with Clontarf RFC with people from varied backgrounds.

I reject your assertion about elitism. This is based on my experience of 15 years of club rugby. What's your assertion based on ?


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## dereko1969 (3 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> I have got to hand it to many of those coaching in underage soccer. The FAI seem to have got it right. Soccer is a relatively easy game to play. It makes the participants think and nearly every club welcmes you.
> 
> GAA is popular also. You dont have to be able to think (e.g. hurlers who have to think are too slow). Gaelic footballers just need good hands nowadays (I jest) but again the GAA welcomes everybody.
> 
> Rugby on the other hand is still elitist. There are exceptions in Limerick for example. Rugby does not have rules it has laws. Therefore, immediately it is set apart from the above two. As for new members . . . sin scéal eile even still.


 
I'm thinking you have very little experience of those playing or attempting to join rugby clubs.

It would be nice if you could back up your statement.


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## Betsy Og (3 Dec 2012)

In fairness maybe it more a perception thing, or maybe its a little more subtle than "non welcoming". To take this away from the area of rugby bashing - there was a feature on Off the Ball about Ballymun Kickhams and how they have developed.

So ineveitably the conversation turned to the Towers and was the GAA a force for good etc etc. The Ballymun guys (who were all GAA people) said that the GAA had more or less given up on the Towers, soccer was the game of choice for the lads from the flats and that was that. Then they (i.e. not me) went on to say that GAA people think they are a better class than soccer people, and rugby people think they are a better class than GAA people but rugby has recently 'broadened its church' and the GAA should also, and that in fairness to Kickhams they were now a more inclusive club that they had been.

So re rugby, I heard it said (maybe on here) that from about u12 onwards there's no underage in clubs and its all through the schools, so if you're not going to a school that plays rugby you have to more or less give it up. If thats rubbish I'd be delighted to hear it. But maybe in that way, given that rugby schools are often fee paying, the whole "social selection" thing is a bit more insidious. 

I'd imagine its different away from Dublin where the school thing isnt that pervasive, and I'm sure no young fella is ever turned away from a rugby club.

I think its fair to say that the "hardest" parts of any city are more likely to spawn soccer than GAA or rugby - that might say more about what the people living there are interested in playing, but there's probably a bit of truth in the view that GAA & rugby are particularly bothered about losing those players. Exceptions being rugby played a lot throughout Limerick city (though not GAA), and GAA being played fairly strongly in all corners of Cork City, including the harder parts (to my knowledge).


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## fobs (3 Dec 2012)

My 8 year old son is playing rugby for 2 years and find it very well organised and not elitist at all. He also plays hurling with the local gaa team. A lot of the coaches are involved in both organizations. He also is joined the local athletics club but would love to play soccer too if more days in the week. Never had a problem with any of the clubs regarding participation of any child from any background. We are in north cork.


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## Purple (4 Dec 2012)

Kids can join a rugby club without playing it in school. There’s a policy in clubs that every child gets a game, unlike soccer.
Many GAA and rugby clubs coordinate training as so many of their players are members of both clubs. Letterkenny RFC and the local GAA club are both based in Dave Gallaher Park (named after the first All-Black’s captain who was born near there) where all facilities, including the club house, are shares between them.


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## bullbars (4 Dec 2012)

Delboy said:


> Not sure if you have kids Deise, but would you let them play rugby?
> I would'nt.....it's gone way way too physical.


 
It's a physical sport what do you expect?


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## MrMan (4 Dec 2012)

bullbars said:


> It's a physical sport what do you expect?



It is physical, but it has reached new levels of physicality. I think most parents would have some level of concern.


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## Kine (4 Dec 2012)

I don't realy want to get into a debate over "GAA" vs "Rugby" as I have played, and won Championships, in both codes and thoroughly enjoyed every second of it. 

For physicality, at the higher levels of *both* codes it has increased significantly. Just look at the arms on some of the Donegal lads (Can't remember the full forwards name but he is a class act). These guys work out and train at an almost professional level and the physicality has increased dramatically as a result. The same goes for rugby - yes, physicality is improtant, but if you lookat BOD, he has slimmed down in recent years as he got too big and lost some sparkle, lost a stone and BAM...grand slam and heineken cup form. It is also about technique in rugby, similar to hurling, where you go full blooded as holding back is more liekly to get you injured. 

The one MAJOR difference I have noticed, is at AIL level the team organisation is on another scale to top GAA clubs (from my experience) and is definitely something some clubs could use to professionalise / improve their operations.

But I love contact sport, and love playing both.


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## Betsy Og (4 Dec 2012)

Kine said:


> The one MAJOR difference I have noticed, is at AIL level the team organisation is on another scale to top GAA clubs (from my experience) and is definitely something some clubs could use to professionalise / improve their operations.


 
I wonder how the AIL clubs can keep it up with attendances down, the odd player getting paid, the benefactors surely suffering. Does that fact that the GAA is amateur (in some regards at least) hold it back & how? Just curious on this - I've no axe to grind with any code - I would have thought that the best GAA clubs teams are more or less copying what the county teams do (& all the county teams seem to be in 'no expense spared' mode as regards big backroom teams of specialists).


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## Delboy (4 Dec 2012)

bullbars said:


> It's a physical sport what do you expect?



it was physical 30 years ago too when lads with beer bellies played up front for Ireland. Now even kids in secondary schools are taking creatine and worse, spending hours in the gym.
Way way too physical

I grew up with GAA and soccer and still play the latter...yes, as a poster above says, GAA has come a long way in the physical stakes...but it's still a long way shy of where rugby is today and where it's continuing to go.
As for soccer....it's got softer!!! Stricter reffing and diving (meaning players are loathed to tackle in 50-50 situations much anymore) has taken a lot of the physicality out of the game. Though you can still have your leg destroyed by a sliding tackle from various angles


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## MrMan (4 Dec 2012)

Kine said:


> I don't realy want to get into a debate over "GAA" vs "Rugby" as I have played, and won Championships, in both codes and thoroughly enjoyed every second of it.
> 
> For physicality, at the higher levels of *both* codes it has increased significantly. Just look at the arms on some of the Donegal lads (Can't remember the full forwards name but he is a class act). These guys work out and train at an almost professional level and the physicality has increased dramatically as a result. The same goes for rugby - yes, physicality is improtant, but if you lookat BOD, he has slimmed down in recent years as he got too big and lost some sparkle, lost a stone and BAM...grand slam and heineken cup form. It is also about technique in rugby, similar to hurling, where you go full blooded as holding back is more liekly to get you injured.
> 
> ...



Older players do tend to have to drop weight to keep going, but there is no doubt now that the amount of gym time and muscle building entailed in rugby changed the game on a physical level. I've played alot of sports, and enjoy both contact and non contact, but Rugby now is a sport that although I once played, I would have some reluctance in letting my kids (if I ever have them) play the game. The long term effects of the game on your body are something that I would worry about.


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