# Masters in computer science



## Buddy1977 (14 Jul 2013)

Hi anyone completed the masters in computer science conversion course in UCD?

I am considering doing this course but it is a big decision for me. 

Currently working in the construction industry 
Married with two kids
Wife not working 
If I do this course we will have no source of income for the duration
I have savings that I can fund this with(estimate 30k)

If anyone has completed this course , is it good and have you found good employment .


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## Jim2007 (14 Jul 2013)

I have not done this degree, so I can't comment on it, but as someone who has worked in the software industry for over 25 years and done my fair share of recruiting, I'll give you a few observations that might be of interest to you:

The software industry is unlike any other, in that people can gain experience working on projects long before they enter college never mind enter the jobs market.  The will have experience coding, testing, documenting and deploying open source projects or perhaps they have even released their own applications into the public domain.  This they will combine with a good university degree and that is what will land them the top entry level positions.

The other thing is that you'll be interviewed by geeks!  And geeks love to talk tech, so if you have not built your own computer, set up your own network and done some of the other things geeks do, you'll find the interviews very hard going.

The reason I'm telling you this is because a while back there was a similar thread to this where a few people who had gone and done MSc in computing were complaining that despite all hype about the shortages in the software industry they were not landing jobs and the main reason was that they did not have the background that most entry level candidates could offer.

In many ways recruiting junior software engineers these days is like selecting graphic artists - you're expected to have some kind of a portfolio of work to go along with the parchment...  And the need to build up a portfolio is something you need to factor into the work load for the degree, you are not already working on something.

There is definitely good opportunities in the software industry right across Europe, but it takes more that a degree to land those positions.  And is is some thing most of the college promoters don't tell you, when they are mentioning the 170K job a Google or who ever.


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## dub_nerd (15 Jul 2013)

Agree with the previous post. If I was interviewing someone for a senior software position it would not hinge on their qualifications. It would be about their real-life software experience, and making sure they understand the nitty-gritty as well as trying to see what sort of insights they have into various "bigger pictures" concerning software architecture which is itself a cover term for a vast array of different disciplines.

Glancing at the UCD [broken link removed], the content looks very good, but I would say that if your existing degree is not in an IT-related discipline then it will be a very hard slog and you will still only know the bare rudiments of (some types of) software development. To be expert in all the areas mentioned probably needs many years work experience, and even then you would need additional education (academic or on the job) to get properly into software design and architecture. You also need to land on your feet to be lucky enough to get a job that will allow you to grow your skills appropriately, and if you have any choice in the matter you should actively seek this. I would also say, in my experience, some people have a special aptitude for software development, while some never "get it" regardless of qualifications -- an anecdote borne out statistically by industry studies of relative productivity rates of the best and worst at the job. 

So, in summary, I would say that this looks like a good course, but do not expect to be landing a senior high-paid job at the end of a three-semester course without a great deal more work experience and training. A decent employer will at best look on your master's degree as an indication of ability and willingness to learn. If you go for it, best of luck with it -- software can be a fascinating and rewarding career.


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## ang1170 (15 Jul 2013)

dub_nerd said:


> So, in summary, I would say that this looks like a good course, but do not expect to be landing a senior high-paid job at the end of a three-semester course without a great deal more work experience and training. A decent employer will at best look on your master's degree as an indication of ability and willingness to learn. If you go for it, best of luck with it -- software can be a fascinating and rewarding career.


 
I'd be inclined to agree with this as a general point, but I don't think it would be a reasonable expectation to look for a senior job at the end of the course. You’d be competing with recent graduates from IT based courses. 

Again, like the others, I don’t know the specific course, but I’d have the following observations (as someone with 20+ years experience in the IT industry, including recruiting many people in that time):

- A lot depends on your aptitude for software: if you have it, the course looks to be very good. If you don’t you’ll struggle, as it looks to be very focussed, but then software is not the job for you. Is there any way you know now whether you’d have an apptitude at software before committing? A friend of mine went back to college a few years ago, and abandoned it when it was clear it wasn’t for them.
- UCD would have a very high reputation for IT related courses (speaking as a TCD graduate, so I’m actually biased against the place! J)
- Although you’re competing against recent graduates (see point above), personally I think you have an advantage over them, due to years of other experience. 
- One of the great things about the industry is that it is possible to develop your career very rapidly: good performance tends to get rewarded with rapid progression in seniority: this can be to higher level programming roles (software architecture), or into related roles of technical sales or general management.
- The software business is pretty buoyant at the moment, so finding a position should not be that difficult. Ask about the percentage of graduates of the course in employment withing 6 months of completing.
- I wouldn’t worry too much about lack of experience if you aim for the right role as much as the previous posters: employers want to see evidence of the ability to solve problems and deliver solutions. If interviewing for graduate entry, typically this will come from project work as part of course work.

In short, the course looks well worthwhile if software is what you are good at and what interests you.


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## nai (15 Jul 2013)

I have direct experience in this area as I lecture on another MSc IT conversion course (not UCD). 

The main comment that I would make is that Software development is a very specific skill and requires a very specific mindset to be very good at it. If you are not someone who has been tinkering away over the past few years, writing code, building sites, whatever - it is very difficult to transition into software dev.

But - and this is the point I always make to my students - the software dev side of the IT industry is a very small part of the industry. I'm in IT for 20 years and have not written a line of code for the past 15. The course I lecture on is very Java based but there are a number of other core modules which I have had students excel at (Infrastructure / Data Architectures etc) but they are very poor at Java.

So my advice is to the OP is to look at your own personal strengths and interests (even within the Construction Industry) and you will find an area within IT which will allow you to work to those strengths and achieve personal development and advancement at a faster pace than possibly going the software dev route.

There are a number of these types of conversion courses running in colleges country wide, providing a large choice of eventual career.

Lastly - don't pick a career path based on the number of jobs out there - if you don't like what you do you will always be unhappy. Pick something that interests you.


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## Smythe (15 Jul 2013)

Jim2007 said:


> The reason I'm telling you this is because a while back there was a similar thread to this where a few people who had gone and done MSc in computing were complaining that despite all hype about the shortages in the software industry they were not landing jobs and the main reason was that they did not have the background that most entry level candidates could offer.



Do you have a link to that thread as I couldn't seem to locate it.  Thanks.


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## Buddy1977 (16 Jul 2013)

Thanks for all your comments....I might do a night course to see if I like this kind of career...rather than jumping in at the deep end and hating it after 2 weeks! Any suggestions for courses in the midland area?


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## AlbacoreA (16 Jul 2013)

I would start by trying to do some coding or a project yourself with some online tutorials. Because in IT the core skill is being able to research/find things out for yourself to solve problems.


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## nai (17 Jul 2013)

Can you put up some details about what interests you have in IT ?

There are loads of courses out there - but the track they will send you down are completely different - eg Cisco Networking versus Web development are completely different career paths.


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## aamusername (17 Jul 2013)

You could take a look at a course on the coursera website maybe in the meantime?  Some very well known universities deliver courses through the website and some even provide a certificate of completion.  I believe that many of the courses are free.  Two courses that might be of interest are: 

https://www.coursera.org/course/cs101     (this one is self study)
https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython    (this one doesn't start until October)

If you do decide to convert to computers/I.T. it might be worth considering completing a distance or part-time course rather than leaving your current job.  If that is an option you would be interested in then Oscail (based in DCU) do a distance-learning diploma or degree in IT.  Another thing worth looking at might be the London External System - some of their degrees allow someone with a degree in another subject to complete a second undergraduate degree more quickly and cheaper (for example £3,207 for the BSc in Information Systems and Management which is awarded by the LSE):
www.londoninternational.ac.uk

(I have no experience of either Oscail or the London External System, though I have always considered the latter as providing an excellent opportunity for very motivated students who would be able to work through the material themselves without lectures or much support.)


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## danial3262 (7 Oct 2013)

Computer science is always good at any point and being a I.T person is also good professionally so if you are moving from your track then it is really a good decision for you.


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## Seagull (7 Oct 2013)

What area of IT are you wanting to move into? Most answers seem to have automatically assumed developer/programmer. There are a lot more aspects to IT than just coding. There's the whole infrastructure/networks arena for example.


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## RichInSpirit (7 Oct 2013)

I wrote a program in QuickBasic years ago. 
I applied for a programming job earlier in the year after talking to a fellow in a pub one night.
But i was hunted by the HR manager in the company because i didn't have a computer science degree.  I even offered to work as an intern.
The computer science degree or higher is handy all right.


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## mike79 (13 Aug 2014)

Hi all,

I am looking to get some recommendations for a part-time programming course:

I'm  between 2 at the moment, one from NCIRL and one with IBAT. The NCIRL  sounds like the more advanced of the 2 with a price tag to match.

My question is: in reality, how much weight is put on a qualification?

My  overall intention is to work in the software development arena -  specializing in Ruby on Rails and Python. The courses in question will  teach me MySQL, Java etc - and I feel that a bit of paper backing me up  will do no harm to my chances of landing a good gig. 

Any thoughts? (and thanks for your help)

Additional Info:

This thread is the most informative thing I've found on the state of programming in Ireland so far. 

Further information to the above post:

Basically, I'm looking for a career change (currently I'm corporate). I seem to be getting mixed signals on the state of the jobs market in programming right now. Some friends of mine would almost have you think I could just learn Ruby on Rails / Python combined with the limited knowledge of other languages I have now and walk into a job.

Now this thread has me thinking I'll have to spend the next number of years and a chunk of cash getting a masters; all the while building up my portfolio of work, then get grilled by ultra-tech-nerds in order to get something half decent. 

Or just do tutorials and a portfolio in my own time and get a well remunerated position. Which is it? 

Let me just say that I don't expect to do a course (probably this one: w w w ncirl .ie/Courses/Course-Details/course/Higher-Diploma-in-Science-in-Web-Technologies-HDSWTECH1) and walk into a €100k job - so would any of you think it reasonable to do such a course, combined with a reasonable portfolio of work and get a mid-developer role without too much tech-torture.

Just FYI, I have an interest in programming and have experience (not much) with C, Java, Wordpress and tweaking Javascript.

Thank you for any guideance you can provide.


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## Leo (13 Aug 2014)

mike79 said:


> My question is: in reality, how much weight is put on a qualification?



Speaking as someone who recruits in the IT space, a candidate without a qualification won't even get past the first hurdle here. 

I'm not familiar with either of the ones linked though, so can't comment on those.


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## mike79 (13 Aug 2014)

Thanks Leo. I would have thought as much.

Can I ask, would you say that is across the board? I would have my sites set on a small - medium agency as opposed to a developer job with AIB (for example)

I appreciate the response.


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## AlbacoreA (14 Aug 2014)

I've no experience of the current market but I think you have a good grasp of the market. You'll get lesser roles without qualifications and experience as in a portfolio of work done. I'm self taught myself. Apart from getting interviews the lack of formal education in development leaves a gap in your skillset and knowledge that will limit you technically. I don't think working in the sea itself ever really fills that gap unless you are a rockstar coder. 

My advice is to get experience and work under belt but plan to do qualifications at the same time. You'd need to be working towards degree and masters eventually. If you can leverage. An existing degree that will shorten the time. You can also do certs and build up experience. That's a another route. There pros and cons for each.


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## Leo (14 Aug 2014)

mike79 said:


> Can I ask, would you say that is across the board? I would have my sites set on a small - medium agency as opposed to a developer job with AIB (for example)



It's certainly more prevalent in the larger organisations who are dealing with a lot of CVs, qualifications is a quick way of filtering the numbers down. As you're not currently working in IT, qualifications will be more important. 

The market is getting very competetive in certain areas, so many of the smaller companies will probably be a lot more flexible to compete and fill roles.

Back to the courses you're looking at, do either offer placement/intern opportunities that would give you some real world experience?


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