# Rules of the Road question



## Brendan Burgess (12 Oct 2006)

I was cycling into work this morning and approached a roundabout on which there was no traffic. 

A pedestrian began to cross the roundabout from one footpath to the other with his head down. He walked straight in front of me. We were both on the roundabout at that stage i.e. in front of the limit line for the yield sign. 

I rang my bell at him as I genuinely thought that he was not paying attention. He started shouting back at me about "giving way to traffic coming from the right". 

We argued in a reasonably good natured way about this, but has he any point? 

Should pedestrians give way to traffic on the road? 

It is difficult for pedestrians to cross roundabouts, but shouldn't he  be walking before the yield limit sign and not on the roundabout itself. 

I argued that a roundabout was no different from a side road. If a car is coming out of a side road, a pedestrian should not walk in front of it. The car has priority on the road. 

Brendan


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## Carpenter (12 Oct 2006)

This is a particular bug bear of mine, I walk more than drive so I try to respect pedestrian rights when I am in the car.  However in your case I don't think the pedestrian had any right to claim "right of way".  Roundabouts are designed to control vehicular traffic only, through turn taking and would have no function regarding pedestrians.  I assume he crossed to a refuge island before crossing the other lane?  The refuge island is there to facilitate safe crossing by pedestrians and they have no other priority AFAIK.  In relation to other road junctions there is something in the rules of the road regarding giving way to pedestrians crossing in some instances.  In particular, if a car is turning right onto another road, the driver must wait at the median until the way is clear- free of oncoming traffic and must allow any pedestrian who has begun to cross the other road to complete their crossing.  This is almost never observed and it would appear to me that drivers do not see pedestrians or equate them with other road users.  The problems of pedestrian safety are exacerbated with urban sprawl where designated crossing points are not provided at all and the pedestrian has no option but to "assert" their right to cross a road.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Oct 2006)

Hi Carpenter

No, there is no refuge island at this fairly small roundabout. If I was a pedestrian crossing it, I would wait on my side of the road until the traffic on the other side of the road had moved on. 

Brendan


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## ajapale (12 Oct 2006)

Hi Brendan,

My understanding is that the pedestrian has right of way if the the pedestrian was on the roadway _before_ the vehicle arrived at the junction.

aj

I googled the following 1937 SI but am not sure of its status.


> At an uncontrolled pedestrian crossing every pedestrian on the roadway within the limits of such crossing shall have right of way within those limits over any vehicle, and the driver of any vehicle shall yield such right of way to a pedestrian if the pedestrian is on the roadway before the vehicle or any part thereof has come on to such crossing.


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## ney001 (12 Oct 2006)

Original poster was on a bicycle - does this still apply


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## ajapale (12 Oct 2006)

Yes a pedal cycle is a vehicle. A pedestrian is not and as such the "give way to vehicles approaching from the right" would not appear to apply.

Draft Rules of the Road 2006 (pdf). makes interesting reading. Section 12 deals with cyclysits and Section 13 deals with pedestrians.

Pedestrians are obliged to find a safe place to cross. The question arises: "Is a roundabout a safe place to cross?". How about a mini roundabout?


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## ney001 (12 Oct 2006)

I seem to remember from driving lessons years ago being told by instructor that I should always give way to pedestrians - obviously bad advice I'd say


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## z107 (12 Oct 2006)

> I seem to remember from driving lessons years ago being told by instructor that I should always give way to pedestrians - obviously bad advice I'd say



I got the same advice from my driving instructor. Pedestrians *always* have the right of way. It makes sense. If a child runs out in front of you, they obviously should have right of way, or if an elderly person is trying to cross the road etc.

Cyclists arn't classed as pedestrians, even if they are wheeling their bike (apparently)


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Oct 2006)

I think, in practice, a cyclist or motorist will always give way, as I did this morning. I did not actually run the guy down. I did ring my bell at him. 

But what would a Garda say to someone who walked out in front of a cyclist?

I will always stop or slow down for an elderly person or child crossing the road.


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## X-Man (12 Oct 2006)

Brendan said:


> I think, in practice, a cyclist or motorist will always give way, as I did this morning. I did not actually run the guy down. I did ring my bell at him.
> 
> But what would a Garda say to someone who walked out in front of a cyclist?
> 
> I will always stop or slow down for an elderly person or child crossing the road.


 
Brendan,a pedestrian has his/her duty while crossing the road.the rules are-look left,look right and do not cross until its safe to do so.in your case it was not safe for the pedestrian to cross at that time.you had the right of way as you were using the road as a moving vehicle so he/she must adhere to this rule


ie-pedestrian appears from back of parked lorry on a busy road and tries to cross road.car comes along and pedestrian appears from this position.whos at fault........the pedestrian for not doing what i said above


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## ajapale (12 Oct 2006)

> SECTION 13 RULES FOR OTHER ROAD USERS - PEDESTRIANS
> 
> Pedestrian deaths account for a significant proportion of all deaths in road collisions. Many such collisions could be avoided.
> 
> ...



My view is that in this case the pedestrian was wrong to be crossing the street in a dangerous place. The rules of the road as they apply to pedestrians would indicate that they should stay on the footpath and cross at a safe place.

Were there any guard rails provided along the footpath on the approach to the roundabout?


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Oct 2006)

I asked a few Gardai on duty outside the Dail today and they said that a vehichle must give way to a pedestrian who is trying to cross the road at a junction where there is no pedestrian crossing.


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## Dowee (13 Oct 2006)

Surely that only kicks in if the pedestrian has obeyed the rules of the road as detailed above.


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## Megan (13 Oct 2006)

Does the rule of giving way to all traffic allready on the roundabout not apply here whither you are walking or in/on a vehicle.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Oct 2006)

I don't think the rules quoted govern this situation. They cover someone crossing the road generally, but not specifically at a junction.

If I am driving down Westmoreland Street and want to turn left into Fleet Street, apparently I should give way to the pedestrians crossing across the Fleet Street junction. In practice, the pedestrians should look around and give way to any vehicle indicating its intention to turn left. It's not very straightforward. 

Brendan


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## Dowee (13 Oct 2006)

Well I still think that regardless of the situation (ie. normal road, junction etc) a pedestrian has no right to step out without looking and expect that he/she has the right to be given way to, which is what seemed to have happened in your scenario. I encounter this most days myself as I too cycle to and from work daily. 

I've considered installing a cow catcher on the front of my bike so that I won't need to swerve or brake anymore


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## Swallows (13 Oct 2006)

A pedestrian, under normal circumstances, should not step out in front of traffic and should cross the road in a safe place.* But* the pedestrian could be drunk, lost their memory, wandered out of a hospital somewhere, then, where does your rules of the road come into effect? They start and end with you the driver. You are the one responsible and must give way to a pedestrian if they happen to be in your path, middle of a roundabout, or where ever.


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## raindog (13 Oct 2006)

anybody know if the law on jaywalking could come into effect here has to be the most flouted law in the land


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## ClubMan (13 Oct 2006)

Check out www.irishstatutebook.ie (e.g. with a _Google _site specific search) and you will find several pieces of legislation dealing with pedestrians and their conduct on the road/pavement etc.


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## ajapale (14 Oct 2006)

The google search for "" throws up several hundred hits. Most of these relate to driver behaviour at pedestrian crossings and pedestrian ways. It seems that there are seperate SI's for each town in the county.

Im finding it difficult to find any references in the statute book which relate to pedestrian behaviour on the roads.

I found  very interesting study from Western Australia.
*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pedestrian           and driver perceptions of the road rules at roundabouts
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Colela           M. Browning, James Oliver & Ken Robinson PhD

[/FONT]*


> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Pedestrians:_           When asked whether they could tell the interviewer the road rules concerning           pedestrians crossing at roundabouts, 69% (24/35) said they could. Of those           who said they could, all save one person indicated that vehicles have           right of way. The majority (54%, 19/35) of participants, however, indicated           that they found the rules associated with roundabout intersections to           be confusing.[/FONT]



and [broken link removed] pdf from the Florida Department of Transport.



> Among the conclusions drawn from this study are the following:
> • The introduction of roundabouts leads to a slight reduction in pedestrian casualty accidents,
> yet increases bicycle casualty accidents.
> • Casualty accident rates are reduced by 68% following the installation of roundabouts.
> ...


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## Gordanus (15 Oct 2006)

ah, pedestrians, bless 'em.......... I had a strange encounter on my way to work one day.   I was coming down a hil on my bike, fairly fast, and a pedestrian decided to cross the road without looking.  I rang my bell, she looked up, froze, I swerved to go behind her.....then she skittered back to the pavement, so I had to swerve the other way.  I had to laugh, she was obviously half-asleep.   But I do think a lot of pedestrians rely on their ears rather than their eyes, and can't hear a bike coming.  My bike now has rattles on to try to overcome this problem.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Oct 2006)

Gordanus 

Happens to me all the time. Many pedestrians just walk out onto the road without looking because they can't hear a car. It is particularly annoying when they are wearing headphones or using a mobile phone.

Brendan


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## Cahir (17 Oct 2006)

Yesterday, as I was walking down Baggot Street, I almost got run over by a cyclist.  He was coming the wrong way down the street and decided to turn into the small road beside tesco without slowing down or indicating to anyone that he was about to do this.  He almost knocked down about 3 other people too.

One of the people who was almost knocked down kicked out his foot (away from the bike) and the cyclist completely flipped.  He jumped off the bike, threw it on the ground, called the pedestrian the w word and then physically attacked him even though he was the one completely in the wrong!!  

This morning I was almost knocked down by another cyclist, again cycling the wrong way down the street (and breaking pedestrian lights).


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