# Is it legal to charge customers who don't pay by direct debit more?



## iceman (14 Aug 2010)

I have noticed in a few utility bills that there is a 2-3 euro charge if you do not use direct debit.
I was wondering if this is legal ?


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## dubrov (14 Aug 2010)

Non-direct customers are less likely to pay bills on time or even at all.

I think it is reasonable that businesses price these risks into their charges


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## roker (14 Aug 2010)

I refuse to pay DD, but I always pay on time.


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## Complainer (14 Aug 2010)

I have discovered the trick of getting around UPC's mandatory direct debit signup!


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## becky (14 Aug 2010)

Complainer said:


> I have discovered the trick of getting around UPC's mandatory direct debit signup!


 Are you not going to share? I hate dd's so pay the charge. I too pay bills on time.


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## iceman (14 Aug 2010)

dubrov said:


> Non-direct customers are less likely to pay bills on time or even at all.
> 
> I think it is reasonable that businesses price these risks into their charges


 
The point is that the risk was not priced into the charge. The non-dd cost is added on top of the charge.
What am I getting extra for paying this extra cost ?


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## theresa1 (15 Aug 2010)

dubrov said:


> Non-direct customers are less likely to pay bills on time or even at all.
> 
> I think it is reasonable that businesses price these risks into their charges


 


- Very generalised statement that I disagree with.


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## Complainer (15 Aug 2010)

becky said:


> Are you not going to share? I hate dd's so pay the charge. I too pay bills on time.



I signed up for a DD to a joint account (not for any devious reason). They mentioned on the phone that they can't do DDs to a joint account, but they didn't push me for a DD. So I pay by internet banking each month.


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## dubrov (15 Aug 2010)

theresa1 said:


> - Very generalised statement that I disagree with.


 
I am not saying that people who don't pay buy direct debit always pay late 

Surely the main reason to avoid direct debits is to maintain control over the timing of the payment.


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## Joe Q Public (15 Aug 2010)

Indeed, the main reason is to control the payment date. Also it is handy if you receive a disputed bill. Payment can be withheld pending resolution.


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## pudds (15 Aug 2010)

I remember upc saying that it is not an extra charge but a *reward* to people for paying by DD.

Would love to see a test case being taken in the courts on this.


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## Marietta (15 Aug 2010)

iceman said:


> I have noticed in a few utility bills that there is a 2-3 euro charge if you do not use direct debit.
> I was wondering if this is legal ?


 

There is more admin when you dont opt for the DD route, also there are postage cost and if people forget to pay their bill on time there are  additional cost incurred in sending out reminder letters and so on.  Some people pay by cheque and that adds to the banking charges of the supplier.  Nothing wrong with DD as long as the funds are in the bank to cover the utility bills.


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## Threadser (15 Aug 2010)

I was thinking of taking this issue up with consumer affairs as I don't think people should be pressurised into taking out direct debits. I recently moved to Vodafone and was told that I had to give my bank details over the phone and pay my first bill by direct debit. I could cancel afterwards if I wanted to, but I couldn't take up their offer without signing up.  (Presumably they are hoping that people won't bother to cancel once DD has been set up). I reluctantly gave my bank details over the phone and subsequently ignored their first two bills as I presumed I was paying by direct debit. I then got a letter telling me I would be cut off if I didn't pay and when I phoned to query, no-body could tell me where my bank details were as they hadn't been uploaded to the system. I don't think it should ever be compulsory to pay by DD and companies such as UPC certainly shouldn't be allowed to charge 36 euro a year extra to people who opt not to pay using this method


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## Crunchie (15 Aug 2010)

Complainer said:


> I signed up for a DD to a joint account (not for any devious reason). They mentioned on the phone that they can't do DDs to a joint account, but they didn't push me for a DD. So I pay by internet banking each month.



Just curious - is this a joint a/c that needs both parties to sign? My UPC DD is from a joint a/c where either party can sign.


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## Joe Q Public (15 Aug 2010)

> Nothing wrong with DD


There are plenty of things wrong with it as it favours the biller so much.


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## Pat Bateman (15 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> There are plenty of things wrong with it as it favours the biller so much.


 
How so?

It's convenient for the consumer and the provider usually gives the consumer ample time to query an issues.


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## Complainer (15 Aug 2010)

Crunchie said:


> Just curious - is this a joint a/c that needs both parties to sign? My UPC DD is from a joint a/c where either party can sign.


In our case, it is a joint a/c where BOTH parties must sign.


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## losttheplot (15 Aug 2010)

What if you didn't have a bank account (unlikely but possible).

Not sure if this is still the case, but did banks charge for setting up a DD and each month charge for a transaction, there was also extra charges when insufficient funds. A way around this was to use a Credit card for the DD, no transaction charges and no missed payments. Not sure if this can still be done.


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## Joe Q Public (15 Aug 2010)

Pat Bateman said:


> How so?
> 
> It's convenient for the consumer and the provider usually gives the consumer ample time to query an issues.


In my experience it did not give enough time to raise a query. By the time you get the bill (BGE, I am looking at you!) and raise a query the DD was set in motion and could not be stopped. Even if the biller acknowledged an error, they would not be able to recall the DD and you could be left short of funds. 

The only option left would be to cancel the DD and pay by cheque or online. I don't like DD and for those reasons I don't have any.


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## roker (16 Aug 2010)

Bills can also be paid electronically with your phone, I have my own set up on TSB open 24


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## Tintagel (6 Jan 2011)

I got my annual renewal form just before Christmas. On the section where it says that you can pay over the phone there was no mention of a €3 charge. I decided to pay by phone and I was told that there was no charge for the phone call. It is an automated system and you never actually speak to anyone. At the conclusion of the phone call I was told that there was a €3 charge for paying this way.
I really feel that this should be mentioned *before *the call or on the invoice but not after you have made the payment.

Is there some consumer body that might take my complaint about this?


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## Mpsox (6 Jan 2011)

iceman said:


> I have noticed in a few utility bills that there is a 2-3 euro charge if you do not use direct debit.
> I was wondering if this is legal ?


 
It probably is, another way of looking at it is if you say, is it legal to offer a discount to customers who pay by DD?,


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## alaskaonline (6 Jan 2011)

Mpsox said:


> It probably is, another way of looking at it is if you say, is it legal to offer a discount to customers who pay by DD?,



but it's not a discount, technically.
i also disagree with this charge but set up the DD to avoid the charge. i still get my bills so i don't see where the paper saving is. and time wise, most times you have a week to complain if there is an error = certainly not enough time! thank god nothing was wrong with my bills yet...


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## PetrolHead (7 Jan 2011)

Mpsox said:


> It probably is, another way of looking at it is if you say, is it legal to offer a discount to customers who pay by DD?,




Its legal to charge whatever you want for whatever service you are offering (with certain caveats). If a company decides to 'reward' those who pay by DD, or 'penalise' those that don't its up to them, and its up to the customer to make a choice.


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## truthseeker (7 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> I have discovered the trick of getting around UPC's mandatory direct debit signup!


 
Me too - I filled out the form with random numbers in the account and sort code boxes and thereafter received bills which I pay online.


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## Tintagel (7 Jan 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> Its legal to charge whatever you want for whatever service you are offering (with certain caveats). If a company decides to 'reward' those who pay by DD, or 'penalise' those that don't its up to them, and its up to the customer to make a choice.


 
But I was only told of the €3 charge *after* I paid my bill.


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## Dezure (10 Jan 2011)

What about cases where companies like BT fine you with a 'late payment charge'?

I wonder if there are any companies that do both - charge you extra if you don't pay by direct debit and still fine you with late payment charges if you don't pay on their requested time.


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## mudahawn (10 Jan 2011)

My solution to UPC's demand for open access to my account (DD) so that they could do anything they felt like to it was to leave them and go Freesat. They sent many letters looking for 18 Euro ie. 6 non payments of 3 Euro, my reply was that I had paid for the service I received.
  I bought a freesat pack from Sound Store for 90 euro,the instalation was simple, I now have all channels, except RTE, and I hear that they are going free to air soon, no monthly fee, no levys no charges other than the usual license 
  Would you give your local supermarket free access to your bank account.


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## JoeB (11 Jan 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> Its legal to charge whatever you want for whatever service you are offering (with certain caveats). If a company decides to 'reward' those who pay by DD, or 'penalise' those that don't its up to them, and its up to the customer to make a choice.



It depends on what is considered legal tender. For example, a company can't charge different prices if you pay by bank note, or coins.


The use of language is important ... A discount to DD payers can also be called a punative charge on non-DD payers. Neither description is inherently more valid than the other... both are equally valid.


(This applies to the fact too that the Irish State can't offer inducments to people to plead guilty to a crime... yet the Road Traffic act does exactly that.. reduced fines if you plead guilty. This is not fair in my view... and describing this not as an inducement, but instead as an increased penalty is unfair, and is a play on words.. it is an inducement to plead guilty... and people should never be blackmailed or coerced into pleading guilty.. they should be allowed remain silent with no threats of increased penalties until the State proves the case. But the state would rather blackmail people.. this isn't justice, although I can see how it'd be expensive for every driving offence to be in the courts.. but that's not an individuals fault)


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## ajapale (13 Jan 2011)

Topic Reminder:  				*Is it legal to charge customers who don't pay by direct debit more?

*OT posts have been deleted.


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