# Child maintenance to Poland - court order



## AmoebaAsasin

Hi there - a couple of years back, i happened to meet a Polish girl here in Ireland. We were together for about six months, she got pregnant in the final month and it was a big shock to both of us. I was prepared to support the child. About 2 weeks after this discovery - she told me that she was going home for a 2 week holiday. She never came back, also shortly after she left ireland - i started getting abusive phone calls from a guy that she had been seeing - basically saying "you stole my girlfriend, " usually these phone calls were drunk and abusive, i had to threaten Garda action to stop. anyway - i got in touch with her - she denied cheating - she also told me that she would be remaining in Poland , having the baby there and remaining there. i felt really p'd off that i had no say in this and i felt powerless to do anything. Anyway the child was born, shortly afterwards - i received a text message demanding €600 per month to be wired over to her, i told her that she must be dreaming, she would not even get that in Ireland. I was earning €1800 Per month at the time. So it went to Court - the court awarded her 300€ per month (they laughed at the €600 ammount) to be backdated bout a year and a half, and all the costs of childbirth etc to be paid too. The polish girl also threatened to send "collectors" if i didnt pay the ammount in full immediately. I appealed this and the judge has arranged another hearing. So far this has cost me €2000 in legal fees. I am willing to pay €200 per month, i am earning 2,300 net per month now but am married and my wife is on a pretty crap salary, when rent, bills, loans, health insurance, food , oil and everything else is taken into consideration things are tight enough.. A lot of people i have spoken to said that €200 in poland is worth substancially more than it is here.  We have not done a DNA test but im pretty sure that the child is mine from the phoots. 
Bottom line is - i feel this girl is quite calculating, she has no consideration for me or my feelings, she sees me as a source of funds, i want to get this over and done with and pay some monthly ammount - but i dont want to be ripped off. i am aware of my responsibility to pay something. I am not trying to escape this. Any thoughts? Also if any polish people are on here - i would be interested on what you think of as a "fair" ammount to be paid per month? 
thanks in advance. AA


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## Caveat

So is the agreed €300 pm also likely to be reviewed at the new court hearing? I would imagine that in the absence of any ruling to the contrary you are obliged to pay the agreed €300 at the moment.

As it happens, yes, I think the this girl is getting a very good deal but it's not really relevant - €300 pm was agreed by the court.

If possible, I think you should do a DNA test just in case by the way.

You describe the girl being calculating etc as the 'bottom line' - well maybe she is, but I would have thought that the real bottom line is whatever the court decides?


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## carrielou

Can I ask, was it an Irish or Polish court that ruled for the €300


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## AmoebaAsasin

I think if you continue on the sentence of "bottom line" you will see .... i want to get this over and done with and pay some monthly ammount - but i dont want to be ripped off. 
300€ was agreed by the court - i had the right to appeal this and i did, i also got myself a new lawyer - it seemed that the lawyers that i had paid in the first instance had just been "appearing" in court and not really defending me. The judge in the appeal hearing did see everything as being very one sided and sent it back to the court of first instance - which is where we are at now.


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## AmoebaAsasin

Carrielou - it was a Polish court.


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## truthseeker

You absolutely have to do a DNA test - what if it is not in fact your child?

Just as an observation - on a salary of 2300 a month 300 does not seem exorbitant to support your child (if it is your child) - Its approx 75 euro a week, which wouldnt go far between food, clothes, nappies, childcare, doctors fees, toys, treats etc....

You are appealing for what amounts to 25 euro a week - is it worth it?


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## AmoebaAsasin

Well - look at it this way - over 25 years it totals €30,000 - so yes i think it is worth it. 
Also other people may disagree with me on this. But I feel that the maintenance should be paid  based on the childs situation, e.g. if the child is being brought up in a different country where the cost of living is lower than Ireland , then the amount of payment should reflect this. 
I also am angry over the way this girl has treated me and I dont want to make it easy for her, its €300 a month gone into the void - it would be different if the child was in Ireland, i could at least have some input. 

You are right - A DNA test is on the cards - this will be carried out as part of the court hearing.


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## j26

It's also tax deductible


Edit:  Just saw your last post.  Get the anger out of the way,  your annoyance at this matters little to the court.  The court will look at the childs welfare.

You might be able to argue that the cost of living is much lower in Poland, but you are still at the mercy of the court, whose main concern is the welfare of the child, so the question is whether it is worth it to spend thousands more now in the hope of reducing ongoing payments, which is not guaranteed at all, or suck up your feelings on it, count your losses and move on.


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## AmoebaAsasin

J26 - only if a spouse....

Maintenance payments made under a legally enforceable arrangement entered into on or after 8 June 1983 are payable without deduction of tax.


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## truthseeker

AmoebaAsasin said:


> Well - look at it this way - over 25 years it totals €30,000 - so yes i think it is worth it.
> Also other people may disagree with me on this. But I feel that the maintenance should be paid based on the childs situation, e.g. if the child is being brought up in a different country where the cost of living is lower than Ireland , then the amount of payment should reflect this.
> I also am angry over the way this girl has treated me and I dont want to make it easy for her, its €300 a month gone into the void - it would be different if the child was in Ireland, i could at least have some input.
> 
> You are right - A DNA test is on the cards - this will be carried out as part of the court hearing.


 
Youd pay child support over 25 years? Thats a new one on me - I would have thought it was either 18 or 22 if the child goes into full time further education.

I understand you feel badly treated - but its only punishing a child for behaviour of adults to try and bring the amount down because of that.

I assume you are insisting on proper access etc...?

From a personal viewpoint I dont think it really matters where the child is - you made the child, you are responsible for support - arguing the toss over 25 euro a week seems petty.

To look at it from another perspective, if the childs mother died and you took on custody of the child, how much would childcare, food, clothes etc...cost you a week? A lot more than 50 euro a week Id imagine - a creche alone is 50 euro a day.

It shouldnt be about the specific amount - it should be about giving your child a good life.

By the way - no judgement from me on what should or shouldnt be done, you have to do whats right for you - the above is only my own thoughts. I dont think you are in the wrong, just trying to make the best of things.


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## AmoebaAsasin

i think that its 25 in Poland if the child decides to continue with 3rd level.
_"It shouldnt be about the specific amount - it should be about giving your child a good life." _Thing is - i will have nothing to do with this child - that's - i have no feelings for him, i know this sounds cold.
Anyway - i appreciate your feedback.


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## carrielou

I don't blame you for being cross.  I'd be cross too, not so much about the maintenance but the way she has handled things etc.  I presume it is not easy or going to be easy for you to see the child and have regular access.

Don't be cross in court, if you have to get a new solicitor then get one.

I know someone who had a solicitor for 3 years and got them nowhere in a family court situation.  They changed solicitor and the new guy didn't take long to sort things out.

Try to think of the child getting the money and not herself.

Trawl the internet and find out whatever you can regarding similiar situations, has to be few of them.


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## truthseeker

AmoebaAsasin said:


> i think that its 25 in Poland if the child decides to continue with 3rd level.
> _"It shouldnt be about the specific amount - it should be about giving your child a good life." _Thing is - i will have nothing to do with this child - that's - i have no feelings for him, i know this sounds cold.
> Anyway - i appreciate your feedback.


 
Well no actually, I dont think it sounds cold. You havent exactly been given an opportunity to form a bond or have any input.

But even given that from an emotional standpoint you are not interested, from a moral point of view it is still your child and your responsibility to pay maintenance. 300 Vs 200 a month seems little to be appealing, paying legal fees to appeal, hassle of flights, going to court etc...

I agree with Carrielou - try not to think about herself, just think about supporting your own child - no emotional relationship necessary.

The childs mother has behaved badly - that doesnt mean you have to.

To be fair to you - you could have just refused everything, the fact you even went to court in Poland (I assume another jurisdiction couldnt have forced you, or to be more blunt, Im sure you could have changed addressed and 'disappeared' when it was clear she was not allowing you to have any input), it commendable, but you might well just save yourself a lot of hassle over a relatively small amount per month to just agree to the 300.


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## AmoebaAsasin

Ok - thanks everyone - I appreciate the advice. The court is in motion - my lawyer reckons that what she is demanding is quite high for Poland, so I guess ill see what happens , and take the judges verdict and go with it, cheers


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## rmelly

truthseeker said:


> Im sure you could have changed addressed and 'disappeared' when it was clear she was not allowing you to have any input), it commendable


 
Is it that easy to 'disappear'?


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## truthseeker

AmoebaAsasin said:


> Ok - thanks everyone - I appreciate the advice. The court is in motion - my lawyer reckons that what she is demanding is quite high for Poland, so I guess ill see what happens , and take the judges verdict and go with it, cheers


 
Well I hope it all works out ok for you - whatever way it goes.

rmelly - in the context of OPs first post, 6 month relationship with someone from a different country, its likely that it would be quite easy to disappear from someone in that position.


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## rmelly

truthseeker said:


> rmelly - in the context of OPs first post, 6 month relationship with someone from a different country, its likely that it would be quite easy to disappear from someone in that position.


 
Not that it really matters, but I doubt that in this day and age that it is that easy what with the interweb and the bebo etc.

Chances are she knows where he worked, family, friends, his 'haunts' etc. He may own his house/apartment, so selling up and changing jobs to disappear would be quite drastic.

For the sort of money involved, first thing she'd do would be get a private investigator, after all he'd foot the bill for it when it got to court.


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## truthseeker

rmelly said:


> Not that it really matters, but I doubt that in this day and age that it is that easy what with the interweb and the bebo etc.
> 
> Chances are she knows where he worked, family, friends, his 'haunts' etc. He may own his house/apartment, so selling up and changing jobs to disappear would be quite drastic.
> 
> For the sort of money involved, first thing she'd do would be get a private investigator, after all he'd foot the bill for it when it got to court.


 
Id have to try and disappear to test it out.

Could a court in Poland force him to attend - do jurisdictions outside of Ireland have the right to force someone to attend (if its not a criminal matter).


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## AmoebaAsasin

truthseeker said:


> Id have to try and disappear to test it out.
> 
> Could a court in Poland force him to attend - do jurisdictions outside of Ireland have the right to force someone to attend (if its not a criminal matter).


 
Yes - they have full jurisdiction - I received my polish court summons via my district court.

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/maintenance_claim/maintenance_claim_pol_en.htm


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## AmoebaAsasin

rmelly said:


> Not that it really matters, but I doubt that in this day and age that it is that easy what with the interweb and the bebo etc.
> 
> Chances are she knows where he worked, family, friends, his 'haunts' etc. He may own his house/apartment, so selling up and changing jobs to disappear would be quite drastic.
> 
> For the sort of money involved, first thing she'd do would be get a private investigator, after all he'd foot the bill for it when it got to court.


 
Rmelly - I do think it would be quite easy to dissapear, i think especially nowadays places like australia would be quite easy to lose yourself in - should you want to.


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## rmelly

truthseeker said:


> Id have to try and disappear to test it out.
> 
> Could a court in Poland force him to attend - do jurisdictions outside of Ireland have the right to force someone to attend (if its not a criminal matter).


 
From what I recall from the Lynn reporting (coming from papers for what that's worth), the Gardai couldn't start extradition proceedings as it wasn't a criminal matter.


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## truthseeker

rmelly - I would have thought that to be the case.

Despite a civil summons being issued from Poland through an Irish district court, if it isnt a criminal matter I couldnt see how OP could be forced to attend.

On the subject of disappearing acts - I was merely commenting on the context of the first post (and comparing to my own life), after 6 months any liason of mine would probably only know me, not any family, maybe one or two friends, and not regular haunts. Up to quite recently I just rented. I dont have an internet presence on bebo or any social networking site. So maybe itd be easier for me to disappear than others


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## j26

truthseeker said:


> rmelly - I would have thought that to be the case.
> 
> Despite a civil summons being issued from Poland through an Irish district court, if it isnt a criminal matter I couldnt see how OP could be forced to attend.


The OP can't be forced to attend, but do you really want a hearing to go on that has major implications for you without you being there?


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## truthseeker

j26 said:


> The OP can't be forced to attend, but do you really want a hearing to go on that has major implications for you without you being there?


 
But ultimately if its a civil matter and OP cannot be extradited, then what difference does it make?
Court can say what they want, if OP never pays its not a criminal matter. So he can never be extradited to Poland for it.

Or does non payment of maintenance constitute a criminal offence?


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## carrielou

I wonder could AmoebaAsasin make an application in an Irish Court for the variation of the original maintenance order based on cost of living in Poland and the fact that due to the child being taken out of the country he may never have any input into this little childs life?


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## truthseeker

carrielou said:


> I wonder could AmoebaAsasin make an application in an Irish Court for the variation of the original maintenance order based on cost of living in Poland and the fact that due to the child being taken out of the country he may never have any input into this little childs life?


 
Thats exactly what Im wondering, she seems to be using the courts in Poland against him, perhaps he can do similar by using Irish courts - but if the answer to my last post is that no one can be extradited or forced to do anything then it would seem to be a moot point.


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## tick tock

it is unfair to unmarried fathers that WE HAVE NO RIGHTS, ONLY OBLIGATIONS


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## j26

truthseeker said:


> But ultimately if its a civil matter and OP cannot be extradited, then what difference does it make?
> Court can say what they want, if OP never pays its not a criminal matter. So he can never be extradited to Poland for it.
> 
> Or does non payment of maintenance constitute a criminal offence?


If recognised in Ireland, it has the same effect as an Irish order, and non-payment of the maintenance provided could be enforced here.



carrielou said:


> I wonder could AmoebaAsasin make an application in an Irish Court for the variation of the original maintenance order based on cost of living in Poland and the fact that due to the child being taken out of the country he may never have any input into this little childs life?


The Irish courts won't touch it if the Polish court has jurisdiction (which it has as the child resides there, and it was the first court to hear the case)


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## carrielou

tick tock, not sure of your situation but do you know what gets me is what about the children's rights.

People break up every day of the week and use children as tools in their petty fights and arguments.

Mothers can be stupid, Fathers can be stupid.  The poor child is caught in the middle and I wish to God that this country would recognise this and decide to listen to the childs point of view when they reach a certain age.  They are not stupid or insensitive and they are dragged into so many break ups, they should be allowed have their say  yes it makes me mad.  

Children should have a say!


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## Black Sheep

While you say E300 is high by Polish standards perhaps the Courts or at least the lawyers are looking at the fact that your income is earned in Ireland at Irish rates therefore your ability to pay is considerably higher than if you worked in Poland.
In Ireland while you would be obliged to pay maintenance you would have no rights of access or custody but as this a Polish born child perhaps those laws are different and may be worth looking at should you decide to take up that option at a later date.
As this lady seems very determined to get the best deal for her child maybe you should not close all the doors against yourself just yet. When the anger dies down you may have regrets


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## Littlebabe

Sorry if I'm not answering your question but as a single mother I can't help but make the following points:
It is completely unfair that you have not been able to be a part of your childs life, I'm sorry that things turned out this way. As the childs father, you do have rights and can go to court for visitation rights or even shared custody. This is your son, of course you can be a part of his life if you want to.
No matter what happens you will always be his biological father and play a crucial role in his life, even if absent: he wil grow up wondering about you, asking questions about his daddy and probably want to meet you at some stage if he thinks you are alive. 
I'm in no way trying to make you feel guilty, I just want to give you his side of the story and make you aware of all your options.
If you want nothing more to do with him then that's perfectely ok but if you decide that maybe you would like to be a part of your little boys life then you can use the polish courts to negotiate access/part custody to your son. It's only fair.
Good luck!


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## rmelly

Weighing up the fact she presumably has no family / support system in Ireland, then Poland is probably the best place for her and the child - and no, his family is not a substitute from her perspective. Unfortunately this causes problems for the OP, but he could always visit - how much are flights to Poland?


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## PaddyBloggit

Just a question .... what would happen if the OP decided to stop all payments?
If it a civil and not a criminal matter could a Polish court force him to attend?


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## rmelly

PaddyBloggit said:


> Just a question .... what would happen if the OP decided to stop all payments?
> If it a civil and not a criminal matter could a Polish court force him to attend?


 
According to the OP:



> If recognised in Ireland, it has the same effect as an Irish order, and non-payment of the maintenance provided could be enforced here.


 
Employers can be compelled to make deductions from payroll for Irish maintenance, sounds like the same would apply.


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## carrielou

If the OP is self employed it can be a different matter. Deductions cant be made, endless summons and then perhaps warrant. Then, in an Irish Court, only arrears of the previous 26 weeks have to be accounted for!

AmoebaAsasin, is your name on the childs birth cert?


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## cleverclogs7

you are being taken to the cleaners.i lived over the border from poland.(czech rep)10min drive actually.1st of all,she would have free hospital care and get benifit in poland.2nd of all.....did you do a test to make sure you are the father and 3rd of all.poland is way cheaper than czech rep.plus,she can have 24 month mothers leave to take care of the baby.in czech its 3,300kc per month(about 120euro)loan parent there thaey get around 150 euro per month.

you need to sort this out.the cost of living in poland is 3 times less than ireland.


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## bond-007

I think the OP is being taken for a ride here. 

Disappearing is an easy option. Change name, new passport disappear abroad.


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## Bronte

OP do you not want your child to be brought up in a financially secure environment with all the best that you and your ex can afford?  Really I cannot understand all the comments about the ex's behaviour, it take two and we only know one side of the story.  What's important is what is best for the child.  We are talking about 69 Euro a week.  Is this a fortune in Poland.   I cannot believe you are adding up the cost of it for years to come as though you are giving a fortune to your ex.  This money is for your child.


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## Caveat

Bronte said:


> This money is for your child.


 
...however:



AmoebaAsasin said:


> ...i will have nothing to do with this child - that's - i have no feelings for him, i know this sounds cold.


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## carrielou

I think the OP is in a very hard situation.  To me it sounds like if the child was to be in this country then he and his partner would quite happily pay the €300 and have regular access.  I would think that this situation must be extremely heartbreaking because of the way things have been handled by the ex.  I do not for one minute blame him, it will be like sending money for a complete stranger yet knowing that this little stranger is a part of him.  Its not like he can try to forget when every month that money is being sent, it will be a constant reminder that he has a child who he supports financially but has no part in his life.  I know it would break my heart.


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## Bronte

Caveat said:


> ...however:


 I don't get your point?  Maintenance has nothing to do with access.  If you never see the child but you bring one into the world you are responsible.  And Carrilou the bad circumstances between the parents should have no bearing on the maintenance.  Either the child is entitled to it or she/he isn't and the Polish courts will decide.  Nothing stopping OP applying for access, Poland isn't the other side of the world.


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## Caveat

You said that the 'money was for his child' - my point is that by his own admission, he doesn't care about the child so presumably doesn't care whether the child is brought up in a financially secure environment or not.

Your thrust as far as I can see, in relation to finances/maintenance is 'what's best for the child' - the OP doesn't care though.


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## tick tock

carrielou I havent seen my daughter in 6 years.she is now 17. i believe a child has the right to two parents but if they dont get on it is better for everyone that the parents split.
i pay €100 a week and for that i get nothing and a young girl gets no father. all because of a horrible selfish mother who wants more money.
i know a mother who gets support from her ex but he has no interest in the child at all.she wishes he would care for the childs sake.
i wonder does the OP ex have any desire for her son to see his father.?


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## Stapeler

Not sure if this is relevant but is you name on the childs birth certificate? Is this lady also claiming Child Benefit from Ireland? One could argue that the €166/month could go towards the maintenance of your child thus reducing you monthly payment. If Child Benefit is claimed coupled with your €300/mth then this child is earning €466/month which is quiet a lot considering an average wage there is approx €800/month


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## Stapeler

jaybird said:


> If the mother and child are both residing in Poland, and the child was born there, how would they be getting Irish Child benefit?
> If for some reason they were entitled and did get it, it would still be irrelevant for maintenance purposes.
> 
> The OP has a responsibility to pay, and the amount has been set by a court order. He needs to either pay up and shut up, or challenge the amount through the proper legal channels. End of.



Yep, OP has responsibility to pay once it's established he is the child's father. In theory Child Benefit could be claimed which would help towards the maintenance of the child. 

From Citizens information
*EU/EEA citizens* and Swiss nationals *working* in *Ireland*, satisfy the habitual residence condition for Child Benefit.
 If you are an EU/EEA citizen or a Swiss national and work in a country covered by EU Regulations, the country you work in usually pays Child Benefit *even if* your family is living in another country. However, if your children are living in another EU/EEA country you should still apply for any Family Benefits you are entitled to there.


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## carrielou

*EU/EEA citizens* and Swiss nationals *working* in *Ireland*, satisfy the habitual residence condition for Child Benefit.
If you are an EU/EEA citizen or a Swiss national and work in a country covered by EU Regulations, the country you work in usually pays Child Benefit *even if* your family is living in another country. However, if your children are living in another EU/EEA country you should still apply for any Family Benefits you are entitled to there. 

Does this mean the father could claim here!


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## Bronte

carrielou said:


> Does this mean the father could claim here!


 That's clever, the maintenance will not cost the father anything, he might even make a profit.


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## Stapeler

jaybird said:


> That would only apply if the mother was working in Ireland, even if the child was living in Poland. The mother is not working in Ireland and the child is Polish born, they have no claim to Child Benefit in Ireland.


The rules shoud not discriminate between father/mother so I think in theory he could claim child benefit here. Personally I think it was a silly decision made by our government when the country was a wash with cash.


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## Black Sheep

Yes father of child can claim child benefit in the country in which he pays PRSI.
Many Polish fathers who have come to work in this country are claiming Child Benefit in Ireland. Once father applies mother of the child is notified by the Irish SW to cease claiming in her own country while the Irish claim is being processed. This takes 2 years approx.
Child benefit can be paid to father (he does not have to have custody or even live in the same country) with mothers permission in cases such as the above where the rate is higher in one country and the PRSI is being paid by the father in that country


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## Mixednuts

Amoeba,

Maybe its just me but there is something fishy about all of this ..anyone agree ?

You come across a a decent guy who wants to stand by and not run from responsability but things have moved far to quick in my mind , 
meet girl - 
pregnant -
split up - 
ex come on scene (abuse) - 
money demands - 
court orders-
collectors -

Mate 1st things 1st ... Be 100% that the baby is yours , trust me photos are not enough to prove paternity  (unless there are  obvious ethneic differences) 
I will not get into what you do and do not have to pay ,you need to get over STEP#1 first .... IS THE BABY YOURS ?

Then move on .


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## Cashstrapped

Firstly you need to get a DNA test carried out, my child has on numerous occasions been mistaken for my friends son so I definetly would not be basing all this on photos you have seen of the child, although if she is willing to bring you through the courts then she must feel certain about it or maybe it's because you haven't questioned paternity that she sees you as an easy option.


You don't say if you wife is aware of this child existence?, you've already paid €2000 in legal costs, work out how many months maintenance that would have paid, your throwing good money after bad.


Reality check now, get the DNA results and if you are the father stand up to your responsibilites, this money is for your son whether you choose to play a part in his life or not, if you choose to ignore him that's your problem not the childs (although may become yours in 18yrs time).  There is a common misconception out there that most mothers when it comes to scenarios like this use the fathers of their children as cash machines, the reality is if the roles were reversed and you were expected to put a roof over your sons head, feed, clothes, pay medical costs, school costs etc. if would surely cost more than the €300 your currently quibbling about so you need to put it in perspective.

Get the DNA test done, it will either save you a fortune in maintenance or confirm the fact that you are a father, then be a man about it and stand up to your responsiblities.


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## bond-007

Make sure it is an independent lab that does the test. Don't have a lab in Poland or Ireland do the test. Get a lab in a neutral country to do the test.


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## Caveat

bond-007 said:


> Make sure it is an independent lab that does the test. Don't have a lab in Poland or Ireland do the test. Get a lab in a neutral country to do the test.


 
Agree - sounds like good advice.


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## AmoebaAsasin

just got back from christmas break - this has vertainly made interesting reading.

i suppose to answer everyones questions broadly - I reiterrate that I feel nothing for this child, I see this as a black hole that I will send money into every month.

again - I think that 300€ is too much for Poland - if she was living here with the child - then I would accept it grudgingly.

I did make her an offer last week of €220 per month which i never received a reply from.

Listen - take intio account how bloody expensive it is to live here and how much you have left out of a pay packet very month and maybe youll see my point - and i havent even got a mortgage yet!

The Child benefit ideas sound really ineteresting but would probably require some cooperation from her side which i dont think i will get.

Also - to answer someone elses question - If i stick my head in the sand and ignore everything - then I will have the courts take an attachment of my earnings. 

My own 2 cents - i think that child maintenance should be based on an itemised billing system , so the father can see what he is actually paying for. I dont trust this person at all, i am however getting over the anger - i just want closure on this so i can get on with my life.


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## Caveat

So did you get a DNA test done Amoeba - or if not, do you intend to?


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## AmoebaAsasin

Caveat said:


> So did you get a DNA test done Amoeba - or if not, do you intend to?


 
Yes- i do intend - before the court hearing next april.


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## AmoebaAsasin

carrielou said:


> If the OP is self employed it can be a different matter. Deductions cant be made, endless summons and then perhaps warrant. Then, in an Irish Court, only arrears of the previous 26 weeks have to be accounted for!
> 
> AmoebaAsasin, is your name on the childs birth cert?


 
CarrieLou - no it is not - she sent the birth cert to me to be signed, but i declined as it was all in polish.... and sent it back.


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## AmoebaAsasin

tick tock said:


> carrielou I havent seen my daughter in 6 years.she is now 17. i believe a child has the right to two parents but if they dont get on it is better for everyone that the parents split.
> i pay €100 a week and for that i get nothing and a young girl gets no father. all because of a horrible selfish mother who wants more money.
> i know a mother who gets support from her ex but he has no interest in the child at all.she wishes he would care for the childs sake.
> i wonder does the OP ex have any desire for her son to see his father.?


 
Ex has made it clear in the court that I am to have no access- I have not challenged this, as I want absolutely nothing to do with her,


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## heretohelp

AmoebaAsasin said:


> Hi there - a couple of years back, i happened to meet a Polish girl here in Ireland. We were together for about six months, she got pregnant in the final month and it was a big shock to both of us. I was prepared to support the child. About 2 weeks after this discovery - she told me that she was going home for a 2 week holiday. She never came back, also shortly after she left ireland - i started getting abusive phone calls from a guy that she had been seeing - basically saying "you stole my girlfriend, " usually these phone calls were drunk and abusive, i had to threaten Garda action to stop. anyway - i got in touch with her - she denied cheating - she also told me that she would be remaining in Poland , having the baby there and remaining there. i felt really p'd off that i had no say in this and i felt powerless to do anything. Anyway the child was born, shortly afterwards - i received a text message demanding €600 per month to be wired over to her, i told her that she must be dreaming, she would not even get that in Ireland. I was earning €1800 Per month at the time. So it went to Court - the court awarded her 300€ per month (they laughed at the €600 ammount) to be backdated bout a year and a half, and all the costs of childbirth etc to be paid too. The polish girl also threatened to send "collectors" if i didnt pay the ammount in full immediately. I appealed this and the judge has arranged another hearing. So far this has cost me €2000 in legal fees. I am willing to pay €200 per month, i am earning 2,300 net per month now but am married and my wife is on a pretty crap salary, when rent, bills, loans, health insurance, food , oil and everything else is taken into consideration things are tight enough.. A lot of people i have spoken to said that €200 in poland is worth substancially more than it is here. We have not done a DNA test but im pretty sure that the child is mine from the phoots.
> Bottom line is - i feel this girl is quite calculating, she has no consideration for me or my feelings, she sees me as a source of funds, i want to get this over and done with and pay some monthly ammount - but i dont want to be ripped off. i am aware of my responsibility to pay something. I am not trying to escape this. Any thoughts? Also if any polish people are on here - i would be interested on what you think of as a "fair" ammount to be paid per month?
> thanks in advance. AA


 hold on , so you earn 2200 euro as month and feel its only right to pay 200 euro a month just because you feel like ???
my partner was on 346euro last year to support myself our two kids and his two kids every week who came to stay for three days a week and was ordered to pay 150 euro a week, we couldnt eat were threthened with eviction and couldnt  survive, you think your hard up ????


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## Cashstrapped

heretohelp said:


> hold on , so you earn 2200 euro as month and feel its only right to pay 200 euro a month just because you feel like ???
> my partner was on 346euro last year to support myself our two kids and his two kids every week who came to stay for three days a week and was ordered to pay 150 euro a week, we couldnt eat were threthened with eviction and couldnt  survive, you think your hard up ????



I totally agree with you heretohelp, there are alot of people in similar circumstances to you and have to grin and bare it.

OP you need to organise the test, you need the mothers agreement for it so you can't just decide you want to do it on a specific date and it can take weeks for the test results to come back so you are only prolonging it for everyone and you will still be on here giving out about her when in fact you have as much control over the situation but you just need to take hold and use your control.

Your idea of itemised billing so the father can see what he is paying for is the most ludicurous suggestion i've ever seen.  This child if it is yours is entitled to the same lifestyle etc. as all your future children will be, irrespective of whether you want to play any part of their lives or not is irrelevant. A court has ruled in her home country what they think you should be paying it is not for you to challenge this based on your assumptions on how cheap it is to live in Poland, you don't live in Poland and your def. not raising a child in Poland.  Get the test done, as per usual their is an innocent little child in the middle of this mess.


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## AmoebaAsasin

heretohelp said:


> hold on , so you earn 2200 euro as month and feel its only right to pay 200 euro a month just because you feel like ???
> my partner was on 346euro last year to support myself our two kids and his two kids every week who came to stay for three days a week and was ordered to pay 150 euro a week, we couldnt eat were threthened with eviction and couldnt survive, you think your hard up ????


 
Heretohelp - I can understand if you feel bitter and hard done by with the system here in ireland - i do too - I'm just trying not to be screwed here  - as was mentioned in a previous post- the value of €200 in Poland can be multiplied by a factor of three. the average monthly wage is €700 - So im contributing quite a lot if indeed i end up paying €300 - 

You state above that your partner was supporting you and four children - good for him - were you married to him? Were you working? 

I will be supporting a (1) child that I will never see and do not really want anything to do with as it is connected to its mother. end of.


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## truthseeker

AmoebaAsasin said:


> My own 2 cents - i think that child maintenance should be based on an itemised billing system , so the father can see what he is actually paying for. I dont trust this person at all, i am however getting over the anger - i just want closure on this so i can get on with my life.



What exactly would you include in an itemised billing system?

Clothing
Food
Medical
Toys
Heat/Light (should a percentage of the utility bills of the mother be included seeing as the child uses the same utilities?)
Rent/Mortgage (again, the child has to live somewhere so a percentage here is only fair).
Cleaning products (childs clothes need to be washed so percentage of mothers cleaning products is only fair)
Personal hygiene products - toothpaste, shampoo etc..
Nappies at a young age - later perhaps toilet roll costs?
Treats - lollipop at the shops etc..
Travel - presumably if mother is going somewhere with child the travel costs need to cover the childs travel expenses too.
Money for holidays
Pocket money/savings account
Expenses for pet if child has one, food, insurance, vet bills
Reading material as child gets older.
School expenses as child gets older, uniform, books, pens, paper, lunch money
Birthday/Christmas presents
Health Insurance
Bin charges (child is going to generate waste materials same as anyone).
Days out, educational trips, trips to cinema etc...
Babysitting costs
Creche costs

The above is just what I thought of off the top of my head - Im sure there are more expenses in raising a child - Ive not made any allowance for the mothers time in raising a child.
I think if you look over that short list that its clear that 300 euro a month will not go far to cover the above.
Its expensive to raise a child. Even in Poland.

I sympathise with your situation, but I dont think you are looking at the bigger picture here about how much it costs to raise a child.

If you were (for some reason) the parent who was raising the child do you think 200 euro a month would be a fair contribution from the other parent?

I think men can have an unrealistic view that the mothers of their children are somehow 'gold digging' when they look for maintenance money - but its expensive to raise kids! Plus - how much gold digging can seriously be done for 300 euro a month? Its not like she is going to be taking limos about and living the high life on a measly 300 euro a month!

Access does not mean having anything to do with the mother - its about you spending time with your child. People can have separate relationships with their parents, a relationship with your child does not mean a relationship with the mother of the child bar a civil hello when collecting your child to spend time with him/her. 

If the mother was a different person and hadnt upset you so much would you want a relationship with your child? If the answer to that is yes then please think long and hard about your decision because none of this is the childs fault.


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## AmoebaAsasin

Seems to be a lot of mothers/single mothers waiting to push their moral highground crap down somebodys throat that can be bothered listening - thanks to all who made worthwhile contributions to the thread- you know who you are AA


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## Cashstrapped

jaybird said:


> If you are looking for a site where only the people who think like you do answer your posts, you may want to look somewhere else. This is not a place where you get automatic validation nor claps on the back. You have had some good advice from different angles, its entirely up to you what you take from it. I'm sure most of us couldn't care less.



+1

Well said jaybird


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## truthseeker

AmoebaAsasin said:


> Seems to be a lot of mothers/single mothers waiting to push their moral highground crap down somebodys throat that can be bothered listening - thanks to all who made worthwhile contributions to the thread- you know who you are AA



Why do you think any of it is moral high ground? (Im not a mother, single or otherwise by the way).

You think you are being screwed. Other people dont (given the figures stated of your salary and maintenance amount).

Theres no moral high ground in that - its fact. Its a small amount of money on your salary. You are not going to be hard up with that contribution.


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## Sue Ellen

AmoebaAsasin said:


> Seems to be a lot of mothers/single mothers waiting to push their moral highground crap down somebodys throat that can be bothered listening - thanks to all who made worthwhile contributions to the thread- you know who you are AA



As the original poster appears to be finished with this query time to close off the thread before it goes downhill.


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