# Solar panel users



## roadrunner (20 Dec 2007)

Can any current solar panel give an account of their experience so far - is there much savings to be made? thanks


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## Leo (20 Dec 2007)

There are quite a few threads on here already with mixed views. Use the search facility to locate these.
Leo


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## Gtec (20 Dec 2007)

Hi,

I've had the panels since august this year. They work and generate hot water.

Do they save you money? well that really depends on your hot water usage. The driver for me to install them was from an eco view point rather than a straight economical viewpoint. I think if I was doing a new build they would be a no-brainer as you have the plumber on-site and have to put in some form of DHW system, so the additional costs taking into account the grant would be relativly small.

see my post here for the performance: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=531500&postcount=10

My overriding observation would be that knowing how much water the panels are producing has led me to really think about my energy usage, and I belive that in order to get the best from a system like this you need to have very inteligent control systems. On my own system I have not finalised how the control should work, but my current thinking is the following:

1 - Immersion: Set Immersion thermostat low (say 50 DegC) and have it come on for a shor period of time in the  morning to ensure there is HW for showers. This only works if you cylinder has an imersion at the top of the cylinder, some I have seen the immersion is low down which I don't understand.

2 - Secondary HW coil (I.e. from the central heating): put a motorised valve on this which is controlled by time/temperature/Boiler i.e, in the evening, if the water  is not hot enought andthe boiler is on, then open the valve and heat the water.

This I belive would give the most econmical heating routine. However there is a building requirement that some provision is made to heat the cylinder to over 60 deg. c at least once a day - up to you have you deal with that, I have never seen a system which "enforces" this.

Let us know what you decide


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## roadrunner (20 Dec 2007)

Thanks Gtec - I am researching 2 systems at the moment 1. Heat water  2. Central heating/water.
Which one is yours & how much did it cost to install.
At the moment I am thinking of going for 1. - the cost is approx €3K excl vat & installation & includes 300L cylinder. grant would be €1,500.
I am assuming that our builder would get his plumber to install (have to run it by him still) & that any additional charge on original contract price could be somewhat offset by the need to buy a cylinder.
Only start researching yesterday so my understanding of the whole process is vague.


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## Gtec (20 Dec 2007)

I have no scientifc evidence one way or another, but gut feel would be that central heating from solar in Ireland is not a flyer. certainly the data I have from my system woudl indicate that on no day since I turned the CH on would the panels have made any impact on the heating requirements.

For example today which is sunny, I am getting 43 Deg on the panel, but that will drop as soon as the sun goes off the roof, the boiler has been kicking in and out on the thermostat since 6.30 to heat the house. what I can say though is that I won't have tosuplemnt the HW by very much today to have plenty of hot water.

In terms of instalation, mine was done on a mates rates basis so i don't know what instalation would cost. Time wise it took 4-5 man days including removing the old cylinder and doing some other plumbing.

The grant in my case pretty much covered the VAT.

One thing to note is that the plumber who installs it MUST be SEI approved to get the grant, and you must have the grant approved before buying the kit or getting any instalation done otherwise they won't pay out.
With the second round of the SEI grants that are now running, I understand that the plumbers that will be kept on the listy actually have to have some formal training in instalations of solar systems, where as far as I am aware the first list only required a tax clearance cert.

Good luck


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## galwaytt (20 Dec 2007)

I have solar heating a thermal store (1000l of water), and that in turn heats both my DHW and UFH.    At lunch time yesterday- freezing cold, but bright, water off the roof panels was 57.9 degC.  

My boiler is coming in later on both a time/temp basis to keep the store topped up, but I haven't got it nailed down yet - the house is too hot, so I'm still fiddling with it..........in general though, the solar is definately making a postive contribution.  More, as they say, later..........


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## ennisjim (20 Dec 2007)

My system has 500 litre buffer tank and 300 litre DHW cylinder. Buffer tank is heating primarily from oil boiler, but also has 2 coils, bottom from solar and upper from solid fuel stove with backboiler. DWH cylinder lower coil is heated from solar and upper coil from buffer tank. The idea is that solar primarly heats DHW and then switches to buffer tank when DHW stat figures water is hot enough. There are quite a few motorised valves to make this all work and this concerned me at first, but now I see that this would allow me to change the operation of the system later using cheap controls.

On the other hand with all the pumps and motorised values there's more that can fail !

Anyway, I suppose the point I'm making is that extra investment in controls may pay off in the long run.

Also, galwaytt is encouraging to see that solar can help during winter. My solar system is not up and going yet.


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## Optimistic (20 Dec 2007)

Hi, Galwaytt  and the other posters, what square mtrs do you have on the roof?  Was it hot water temp that was almost 60 degrees C or the temp on the roof?  I am keen to know as I never see temps like that on our system of 8 sq mtrs.We have a 800 ltr buffer tank with a 200 ltr DHW tank in it. With only two low hot water users in the house we are not happy with ours. Is it flat plate or tunes you all have?  Thanks for your help and advice. Optiistic


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## galwaytt (21 Dec 2007)

Flat plate, 7.5 mts, 1000l buffer tank (don't know capacity of solar coil, though).

59.7 deg was the temp of the fluid at the pumping unit in the hotpress, enroute to buffer tank. Naturally you'll lose some heat in the exchange process, but you're not heating the tank from cold.

Still fiddling with controls, though, as the boiler is on too much.

btw, house is 316m2


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## hayabusa (10 Feb 2008)

Folks, 
i have a number of queries on Solar panels. 
House will be 327 M2 and will be ading an additional  60m2 at a later stage. 
I plan on heating the house with UFH and driven mainly by flogas. (geothermal not worth). 
i also plan to put up solar panels, however there is no room on roof at back (south) due to roof windows. There is one place 1 could put them approx 3 m x 2m. Probably not enough room.
however i have a garage which is south facing and the roof is ideal. However it is approx 30metres from the garage to the house. Is this too far?? can i insulate the pipes enough so i do not lose much heat. Is this practical to do. what type of panels should I use. I believe that one type is better than to other. i am not worried from a cosmetic point of view because they will be on the back of garage or house. 
can anyone advise on type make model, are required etc etc. 

Thanks.


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## bertie1 (10 Feb 2008)

You need to keep the run of pipe from the solar panels as short as possible , for the system to run as efficiently as possible . 
Our house is 3000 sq ft , we have 4 panels , ( 25 tubes in each panel ) they are 2 mteres wide x 1.8 in lenght. 
We have them on the south facing roof of the house , 25 meters of pipe from the roof section to the location of the water cyclinder and it takes a long time for that loop to heat up initally , it is a lot more noticeable in the winter time when the sun is lower in the sky. Onces the loop heats up they work a treat , but the trick is definately to keep the run of pipe from the panels to the tank as short as possible. The ones we have came with frames so they could be mounted on a concrete plinth as well, this might be a better option to shorten the run of pipe in your case. If you pm me I give you the name of the company that supplied ours,


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## eire1977 (11 Feb 2008)

bertie1 said:


> If you pm me I give you the name of the company that supplied ours,




Bertie1,
If you don't mind could you PM me the name of the company as well.... starting my build v soon and intend to put around 5msq of tubes on the south facing roof and install a 300L tank(220msq timber frame)

Thanks,


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## Leo (11 Feb 2008)

bertie1 said:


> If you pm me I give you the name of the company that supplied ours,


 
Bertie, feel free to post the company name here, so long as you have no connection with them.
Leo


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## cake (11 Feb 2008)

Bertie1

Could you also PM or post the name of the company that you got for your solar panels. We also are in the early stages of going solar.

thanks

cake


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## bertie1 (11 Feb 2008)

Leo said:


> Bertie, feel free to post the company name here, so long as you have no connection with them.
> Leo


 

I got them from www.solarpanelireland.com

I do not have any association with them , just found the woman we dealt with there very helpful and I am happy with the solar panels , they worked great today even if it is the middle of February.


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## hayabusa (13 Feb 2008)

Thanks Bertie.
what is your plumbing setup.
Looks like I am going with a dual coil, one for flogas gas heating (tank in garden). and the other for solar panels. I will be using a 280 litre tank and 50 tubes of solar panels. this is for a six bedroom house. will this work??

I have also spoken to another company who supply solar panels and provide support for DIY install. There names is Ecologies. has anyone dealt with them before. How good are their panels?? any input appreciated.


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## bertie1 (13 Feb 2008)

hayabusa said:


> Thanks Bertie.
> what is your plumbing setup.
> Looks like I am going with a dual coil, one for flogas gas heating (tank in garden). and the other for solar panels. I will be using a 280 litre tank and 50 tubes of solar panels. this is for a six bedroom house. will this work??
> 
> I have also spoken to another company who supply solar panels and provide support for DIY install. There names is Ecologies. has anyone dealt with them before. How good are their panels?? any input appreciated.


 
I am not an expert but we have 5 bathroom/ ensuites, we put in 2 (25 tube) panels to start with , but after watching it last year and partically because of the long run of pipe from our panels to the hot water cyclinder we had to go back & put in another 2 panels . We now have 4 panels 25 tubes in each and a 450 liter dual coil cyclinder, the 300 liter cyclinder would have been drained if the bathrooms / ensuites were being used. I doubt that what you are proposing for a 6 bedroom house will do .


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## pmg (15 Feb 2008)

Hi all
i have approx 8 sq mtrs of solar tubes and a 500 ltr tank linked to a 6kw wind turbine. the last few days with constant sunshine the solar would increase the tank temp from 30degrees to 68 approx without turbine help. temp on the roof will increase at about 6 or 7 degrees above tank temp throughout the day, so highest temp on roof is 74 degrees 
i had apower cut towards end of last summer ant the temp went to125 degrees c on the roof scary moment!
hope this will help


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## Optimistic (16 Feb 2008)

Hi all, we have 8 sq mtrs of flat plat panels on the roof and the highest we got this past week was 33-34 degrees C on the roof. I am amazed with the performace of some of the users solar gain. I would be overjoyed if ours were this good.  It is a short run from the buffer tank in tank system to the panels, height of the house.
Optimistic


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## ennisjim (18 Feb 2008)

Have 7 sqm of panels. Heating tank to approx 40 degrees over last few days. Maybe tubes are better ???


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## Pope John 11 (26 Mar 2008)

Could I please have an update on anyones solar panel types and preferences.

Is it really worthwhile with the new BER issues coming into fruition.

Is there a saving to be made.

I have a 300sq.m house & I need some recommedations.


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## chimpster (26 Mar 2008)

Pope John 11 said:


> Is it really worthwhile with the new BER issues coming into fruition.



I dont understand what you mean by this?

Solar will improve your BER Rating. Tubes will improve it slightly more than Flat Panels. The orientation and pitch of the roof will also have a bearing on your BER. Shading also needs to be taken into account.

With the grant system still in place, a properly sized and correctly installed solar system system is a good investment IMHO.


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## Gtec (26 Mar 2008)

Hi,

I have 4.2 SqM of Vacum tubes (2 panels of I think 12 tubes each) and a 210Litre tank.

At 9.05 this morning the roof temp was 40 Deg C. 

You can see all of the data from my instalation at www.irishecoplumbing.com

In the interest of full disclosure, the company associated with the above website is run by a friend of mine, and the live solar data feed on the site comes from my house, but I have no financial association with the company.

I bought my system from rvr (www.rvr.ie) with whom I have no association but I was happy with the service and the system.

I should point out though that when the panels were first installed I was getting terrible performance, and discovered that the sensor on the panels was not seated in the sensor pocket correctly, once this was sorted the system worked fine. Solving this was actually pure chance but a long story for another time!


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## askalot (26 Mar 2008)

Gtec said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have 4.2 SqM of Vacum tubes (2 panels of I think 12 tubes each) and a 210Litre tank.
> 
> ...



What do you reckon your annual savings are?


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## Gtec (26 Mar 2008)

> What do you reckon your annual savings are?



Ah, now that is the question!

I have had the panels up since end of July last year, but I only fixed the sensor problem at the end of september, so I have no real "summer" data to go on.

There is no real answer to this question in my opinion - the more "wastefull" of energy you are, the more "cost savings" you can expect to get. I installed solar panels because I had to change the HW tank anyway (wrecked by hard water, now I have a softner), and it "appeared" to me that they were a bit of a no brainer. When I did some back of the fag packet maths before I got them, there was NO wasy I could financially justify the instalation. My ESB bill is approx €65 euro a month (of which 20 is standing charge), and I burn approx 1200 litres of oil a year, this for a 1700 sq ft house permenantly occupied (i.e. my wife and kid are there all day every day). 
If I assume that 50% of my ESB units were used to heat water (not really the case I know!) then it would take about 14 years to recoup the  capital instalation cost (discounting energy price fluctiaions, other use of the money etc. etc.) 
I can't put a figure on the "change" in my energy bills since I installed the Solar, but what I can say absolutly is that the fact of installing it made us much more aware of our use of HW.
I have done some very basic analysis of the data I capture, and did find that between Octomer and march there was very few days where the solar made no contribution to the HW. One of the interesting things about it for me was that in the depths of winter the water entering the HW cylinder from the attic is very cold (about 10 deg. C) so any heat in the panels is pre-heating the water in the cylinder, lowering the amount of external energy that is needed to bring the temperature up to what we want.

That is a long post to say, I have no idea what difference it makes financially!
Les


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## askalot (26 Mar 2008)

Thanks Gtec. 

Think I will wait until I need to replace my HW system before thinking about the Solar route and hopefully that is many years away!


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## Pope John 11 (26 Mar 2008)

chimpster said:


> With the grant system still in place, a properly sized and correctly installed solar system system is a good investment IMHO.


 
Could you please give us a few figures to justify that it is a good investment.
Cost to install, materials costs, savings against using oil/gas etc.

Agree that it will improve the BER rating of the house.

Gtec could you give us an indication of your costs and the size of your house, appreciate it


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## Gtec (26 Mar 2008)

Costs wise the solar system was around €3,500 (panels, tank, pump, controller and anti-freeze), piping, insulation fittings etc came to approx €500, and instalation cost me a website and a long hard days labour! (bartering still works).

I got a grant of €1260 from SEI.

The rest of the details are in my previous post about "cost savings".


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## selfbuild99 (5 Jun 2008)

Just wondering are solars worth the money? I am just starting to investigate the use of solars, but already i am coming up with figures of about 6000, but i think this could go to 7000, this includes installation.  Because our solars will be on the garage roof and cylinder in house, it will cost us a bit extra for the piping. Assuming they will provide free hot from about may - sep, and contributing for the couple months around this, how long before we would get 7000 worth of free hot water?
The house is 3070ft in the north west, so if anyone has any advice it would be greatly accepted. Tks


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## lightswitch (5 Jun 2008)

Just heard an ad on Newstalk for Carey Glass Solar, manufactured in Ireland apparently.  Looking into getting one myself from an eco point of view but not good a the technical stuff so will be giveing them a call. LS.


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