# Will people be happy if  HC covered bins, water etc ?



## Pique318 (3 Apr 2012)

On Frontline last night, I heard a SF guy from Louth saing that the Council Tax charges in NI cover bin collection, school books etc.

I got the feeling that you better be careful what you wish for.

What would the HC actually amount to if all those things were covered ?

Bin = 250
Water = ?
School Books = 1000? (no idea. Doubt it's this high but it was quoted)
School Bus = ?
Grass Cutting = 20
Street Lighting = ?
Road Maintenance = ?
etc
etc.

If the govt called the protestors bluff and actually said, "OK, we'll provide those services, in return for a €2000 HC, would it even cover it ?
Of course, those who live in the country with no street lighting or children would then be unhappy.

How could this be even considered here without prolonged (expensive) 'negotiation' and arguements about 'the most vulnerable in society' or some such special interest group?


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## allie12 (3 Apr 2012)

Again the argument, I already pay a private management fee of over €2k for these services!


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## Pique318 (3 Apr 2012)

What argument...it was a question.

Management fees coverage end at the entrance to the estate.

Also, if all was included in the HC, your (and my) management fees would be far less.


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## Boyd (3 Apr 2012)

Are management fees not usually paid to private companies, they would be under no obligation to reduce their rates just cos the owners pays 2K to government - very real possibility of paying more IMO


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## truthseeker (3 Apr 2012)

username123 said:


> Are management fees not usually paid to private companies, they would be under no obligation to reduce their rates just cos the owners pays 2K to government - very real possibility of paying more IMO



Well of course they would reduce their rates, if some things were being looked after by the local authority, like bins, then there would be no need for the management agent to hire a bin collection company. This would be reflected in the management fee.

Its not some mysterious fee, its the cost of running the development. The agent acts on behalf and at the direction of the management company (the owners). If certain things were taken over by the local authority then the fee would go down, but the problem is, the local authority will not take over these things.


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## DerKaiser (3 Apr 2012)

My friends and I had the discussion that the main argument is that there is no tangible gain from the household charge.

We came to the conclusion that they should have introduced water charges first with the flat €100 fee per household equal to the standing charge, payable by all in advance of metering. It's hugely defensible as €1bn per annum is spent on water treatment/infrastructre for which there is no direct charge.

I then remembered a quote on this site about someone promising to leave the taps running day and night to get their "money's worth" if a flat charge for water was introduced. There's a lot of dangerous irrational ideas out there at the moment.


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## ajapale (3 Apr 2012)

I'm in favour of a water charge base on metered usage with little or no standing charge element. When "Uisce Ireland" take over this will be their revenue. People not connected to the public water main would not pay this charge. 

People connected to the public sewer would pay a percentage of the water charge. People not connected to the public sewer would not pay this charge but would have to pay septic tank inspection charge to ensure that they are operating in compliance with modern environmental regulations.

Im in favour of waste disposal charges (on a pay by weight basis) being paid to properly regulated private operators providing the service.

Im in favour of a proper valuation based property tax levied on property owners (not tenants) to supplement commercial rates and central government funds to fund broad community services enjoyed by every one (but not estate level services). Local Authorities as properties would be expected to pay this property tax in the same way as all other property owners.


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## itsallwrong (4 Apr 2012)

Totally agree with water charges. Its taken for granted.  But as for the HC well..
What do we actually pay towards water - the HC, the water rates, taxes, property tax, development levy and so on...
But let's look at the original lie - 'to fund local authorities'... fat chance.
To pay bank the ECB more like.


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## mathepac (4 Apr 2012)

allie12 said:


> Again the argument, I already pay a private management fee of over €2k for these services!


I think you need to check the management charges in your MUD. A decent sized chunk of them go on insurance for flat complexes, maintenance of common areas and contributions to the sinking fund. Apart from this, property owners in private MUDs knew about the necessity of paying their charges in advance. But that's a different topic IMHO.


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## mcloving (4 Apr 2012)

Would the water charge ensure the tap water is drinkable? Currently my tap water tastes and smells of chlorine. I have to use an expensive water filter to make it worthy of the term water.


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## allie12 (4 Apr 2012)

mathepac said:


> I think you need to check the management charges in your MUD. A decent sized chunk of them go on insurance for flat complexes, maintenance of common areas and contributions to the sinking fund. Apart from this, property owners in private MUDs knew about the necessity of paying their charges in advance. But that's a different topic IMHO.


 
I keep a very close eye on out management fees, and a more sizable chunk goes towards services as we actually maintain the small area of our estate that the council "own" but have never bothered with. Obviously insurance etc is the other sizable chunk. Yes we knew about the charges beforehand but to hell if I being told that I need to pay a "Household Charge" for the same services I already pay for!


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## mcloving (4 Apr 2012)

allie12 said:


> I keep a very close eye on out management fees, and a more sizable chunk goes towards services as we actually maintain the small area of our estate that the council "own" but have never bothered with. Obviously insurance etc is the other sizable chunk. Yes we knew about the charges beforehand but to hell if I being told that I need to pay a "Household Charge" for the same services I already pay for!



Probably one of the reasons why almost 1 million have not paid.


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## roker (8 Apr 2012)

Why does each resident in our road pay €100 year to cut the grass across the road on a green belt?


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## ajapale (8 Apr 2012)

roker said:


> Why does each resident in our road pay €100 year to cut the grass across the road on a green belt?



Is this €100 the household charge or is it some other private management charge?


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## Black Sheep (8 Apr 2012)

When we come to water meters and water charges surely we can expect *drinkable* water. 
At present we must either boil the water or buy bottled water. Many of our neighbours go out to a local well for spring water.
While a friend was there the other day collecting some water he met a local councilor and the public health nurse also collecting drinking water.

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in our public supply


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## ajapale (9 Apr 2012)

Black Sheep said:


> When we come to water meters and water charges surely we can expect *drinkable* water.
> Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in our public supply.



Your supplier of water must supply water which meets the _*EU Drinking Water Regulations*_. The supplier is also required to sample and analyse the water on an ongoing basis. This is designed to inspire confidence in the water supplied.

Is your supply a _*public water scheme*_? or is it a *private group water scheme*?

Has your case been reported to the EPA? and have you asked to see the results of monitoring over the last number of years? Are you on a formal "boil water notice" at present? If so then the supplier is obliged to let you know the steps being taken to rectify the problem.



Black Sheep said:


> Many of our neighbours go out to a local well for spring water.


Unless this water has been tested and is clear of bacteriological contamination then it would be wise to boil this water as well!


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## roker (9 Apr 2012)

We have paid this for years because the council will not do it.


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## ajapale (9 Apr 2012)

roker said:


> We have paid this for years because the council will not do it.



Roker,

Who owns the the "_green area across the road_"? When you say "_green belt_" what do you mean by this?

aj


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## roker (10 Apr 2012)

Its the other side of the street across the road, grassed the full length of the street, presumably the council own it, we don't


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## demoivre (12 Apr 2012)

I'm not in favour of paying property type taxes to fund local services whose costs are augmented by salaries like these and where gross incompetence is not penalised.


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## Guns N Roses (12 Apr 2012)

roker said:


> Its the other side of the street across the road, grassed the full length of the street, presumably the council own it, we don't


 
If you don't own it then why are you paying for it to be cut?


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## roker (13 Apr 2012)

To keep our street lookng decent.


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## truthseeker (13 Apr 2012)

That sounds like a lot of money roker.

How big is the grass strip, how many residents contribute, how many times is it cut, who decides how to hire whoever cuts it?

When I was young there was a green belt in our estate that the council refused to cut one year and the residents association got together and cut it themselves. There was a few hours work in it for 10 or 12 people - it was a large odd shaped field - not like what you describe. Its a possibility for you instead of the 100 per resident (which seems far too much for one strip of grass).


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## Odea (14 Apr 2012)

The road sweeper van passed my house yesterday cleaning the kerbside. (Dun Laoghaire Rathdown). One guy in van driving and one guy with brush supposed to be sweeping dirt from footpaths in to kerbside. Guy with brush not doing his job. Storm drains are completly clogged up. It would take him a minute to open drain and shovel out dirt so van could sweep it up or use the big suction hose on side of van to suck up dirt.  These guys are not doing their job properly.


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## roker (14 Apr 2012)

Like the 2 council workers, one was digging holes in a row, and the other was following him filling the hole in again.
When asked by someone what they were doing, the answer was that the guy in between who puts the trees in the hole is off today.


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## Shawady (16 Apr 2012)

Water charges are going to be seperate to the household charge and it looks like we'll have to pay for the meters to be installed also, which could be 3 times the cost of the household charge.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/home-owners-to-pay-for-water-meters-190685.html


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