# Managing Agents - Insurance query



## Helen321 (26 May 2011)

Hi

I'm not sure if this query should be here or in Insurance forum.

My mum owns an apartment - bought 5 years ago - second hand - built about 25 years ago.
4 years ago damp came in via external wall. We got it repaired at own cost.

Damp coming in again from external wall. Reported to management agent in January 2011. He assured us that it would be looked after under block insurance policy. Repeatedly emailed/called him for update to find out when it would be done. Received email last week to say that he had had a chat with the insurers and its not covered as its normal "wear and tear".

My queries are: - Is it normal for insurers to make decision like this without anyone ever inspecting damage (no one from either managing agents or insurers has seen the damage)
- Can we take this further and insist that it is looked at? Water coming in through external walls doesn't seem like wear and tear to me?
- Have we any rights here ?

thanks in advance


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## redfedora (27 May 2011)

i would think the MC may be fobbing you off, an insurance company would send an assessor out before making a decision unless it was something specifically not inlcuded in the policy. I would think water coming in from outside would be covered


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## ngwrbc (27 May 2011)

check your paperwork from Mgt Company, you should have copy of the policy schedule, ring the insurance company yourself and report a claim under the block policy, take name and claim reference for your records, they should then send someone out no doubt to assess the situation. 

If you dont have a copy then ring Mgt Company and demand the details of insurers.   

I think it should be covered also.


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## Leo (27 May 2011)

Surely MC are responsible for external walls anyway?


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## Yorrick (27 May 2011)

Leo. You are absolutely correct. The Management Company is responsible. Normal wear and tear has nothing to do with it. The external walls are part of the common areas. If they disagree tell them you are putting  in an extra window in the wall to get more sunlight!!!

I would advise for your solicitor to write to the management company demanding action or otherwise you will have to take a certain course.


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## Helen321 (30 May 2011)

Thanks million for the quick responses
will let you know how I get on with this


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## zenga (23 Jun 2011)

How are you so sure the leak is coming from the external wall?? I would suggest you ensure you are 100% correct. If it is you will be able to claim under the block insurance policy generally. The only problem is there may be a large excess on the policy regarding water ingress. 

What you need to do:
1: Prove the water ingress is as a result of a leak from the external wall
2: Request a copy of the insurance policy, check the excess and get an estimate to make an accurate decision as to whether a claim is economical or not.
3: Finally ensure that it is a common area issue. If it is not you must cover the cost yourself.


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## kkelliher (27 Jun 2011)

zenga said:


> How are you so sure the leak is coming from the external wall?? I would suggest you ensure you are 100% correct. If it is you will be able to claim under the block insurance policy generally. The only problem is there may be a large excess on the policy regarding water ingress.
> 
> What you need to do:
> 1: Prove the water ingress is as a result of a leak from the external wall
> ...


 

If the dampness is simply coming through the wall and it is not from a leaking pipe you _Will not _be able to claim under standard insurance policies. This would not fall under an insured risk under any policy that I am aware off. The damage would have to be from a leaking pipe or appliance or from storm damage in order for it to be an insured risk.

Water ingress though bad or deteriorating plastering is not covered by insurance.

This would not mean the managment company are not responsible for repair it just means there is no insurance claim


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## onq (29 Jun 2011)

A few issues arise; -

1. If your previous attempt at a repair was incompetently executed you may have compromised your position.

2. Unless your previous attempt at a repair was the subject of a joint inspection by a competent building professional and the remedial works agreed wit ha representative of teh management company , you may have compromised your position.

3. If the foregoing issues are all against you but the current ingress is from a totally new source, you may not have compromised your position, but you should do it by the book this time.

4. In newer buildings water ingress from outside may be dealt with by guarantees/ insurance policies from companies like Homebond. Check and see if any such policy is in place.

5. If the water ingress comes from a services leak within the building then the apartment or building insurance policy may cover it.

6. Interstitial condensation can also give rise to what looks like damp ingress, but may not be. This may arise from several sources and as a result fall into a gray area for insurance purposes.

7 In all cases, the damp must be traced to its source and its source removed. This may involve- re-pointing the external wall
- re-rendering the external wall
- re-fixing and sealing loose flashings or parapet blocks
- increasing the insulation
- providing new or sealing the existing vapour checking the internal room
- increasing the ventilation either interstitially (in a cavity for example)
- tracing and sealing a pinhole leak in a supply pipe
- tracing and sealing a leak from an waste water, rain water or foul water pipe or outlet​etc.

8. Sometimes the apparent damp ingress can be the result of a change in living circumstances within the apartment, such as new people staying increasing the amount of water vapour in the air due to living processes like washing or cooking, etc.

9. "Wear and tear" on a building should be provided for by the sinking fund, which normally replaces items like lifts etc, but may also cover weathering repairs, services renewal, etc.

10. Whoever ends up paying for it, consider getting a building professional involved to photograph and record the matter under investigation, oversee the remedial works, advise you generally and assist in focussing the management company on the serious nature of the problem.

Hope this helps.


ONQ

             All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot            be                              relied                       upon                                                                                                                                                                                       as   a                          defence             or                                support     -                  in                        and           of                                    itself         -                                                should                                              legal                                              action                             be                                                 taken.
             Competent legal and building professionals should be asked                     to                              advise        in                                                                                                                                                                                               Real               Life                with                             rights            to                                  inspect                     and                                  issue                                            reports                      on                            the                                                                  matters                  at                                                hand.


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