# MBA vs. MBS



## River

Hi All, 

I’ve been recently considering doing a Masters and am undecided regarding whether to do an MBS or MBA. My background would be in Finance. 

Originally I was edging toward MBS as I saw a few courses in Smurfit/DCU that interested me  but after discussing with colleagues in work, they have lead me to believe that an MBA would hold more clout.

What are people’s opinions on this? 

MBA choices would probably be between Smurfit/Trinity/Manchester, with Manchester probably current favourite.


----------



## Squonk

What's an MBS? Whatever it is, the MBA is a much more general and recognised degree. The MBA would be useful if you wanted to move into a more general management type of role.


----------



## Square Mile

Hi River

MBAs are more practical, and usually have more clout.  They are however, usually more expensive (up to €40k, average €20k).  You would need to specify whether you would prefer Full Time, Part Time or Distance Learning.  Manchester, for example, has one of the best Distance Learning MBAs in the world.  If you can afford to take a year or two off work, then the Trinity MBA is well regarded internationally (I am biased as a TCD graduate - not MBA).  UCD (Smurfit) is also well regarded, but TCD is ahead in the latest MBA rankings.

SM


----------



## River

Squonk said:


> What's an MBS? Whatever it is, the MBA is a much more general and recognised degree. The MBA would be useful if you wanted to move into a more general management type of role.



MBS = Master of Business Studies in UCD. Should have just said Masters



Square Mile said:


> Hi River
> 
> MBAs are more practical, and usually have more clout.  They are however, usually more expensive (up to €40k, average €20k).  You would need to specify whether you would prefer Full Time, Part Time or Distance Learning.  Manchester, for example, has one of the best Distance Learning MBAs in the world.  If you can afford to take a year or two off work, then the Trinity MBA is well regarded internationally (I am biased as a TCD graduate - not MBA).  UCD (Smurfit) is also well regarded, but TCD is ahead in the latest MBA rankings.
> SM



It would definitely have to be part time and perhaps distance learning as couldnt take time off. I saw the FT list of top MBA's and UCD had dropped to 98 if I remeber correctly, I think the Manchester one is in or around 25. It also comes in about 15k cheaper than UCD.  I would hope to get sponsorship from work for a hefty % of fees but we'l see. 

a couple of things that would still have UCD in the running for me personally are;
I've heard that when applying for a lot of jobs in Ireland, there is preference given to smurfit graduates (kind of old boys club mentality), not sure if any1 has any experiences of this. 

I would also imagine networking opportunities are greater attending a Masters in Ireland than abroad (if one was hoping to remain working in Ireland). 

please feel free to discuss


----------



## amgd28

Hi,
Definitely go for the MBA ahead of the MBS. I recently completed an MBA in Smurfit, and the MBS is very definitely looked down on even by the school.
I should stress that despite some inadequate lecturers etc, I found the MBA program extremely rewarding and has allowed me to go in a completely new direction.
Certainly if you intend having the career in Ireland, I think UCD or Trinity is a better choice than Manchester, even if Manchester might have better teaching, facilities or other reasons why you want to choose them.
You should definitely do the part-time option as the full-time generally has a deficit of senior executives in the ranks and thus opportunity for learning from them reduces
The reason I say this is that the most rewarding thing in the MBA is the people you deal with in your class, work closely with and learn from. Also depending on some of the courses (electives) you can choose as part of the Final semester (in Smurfit, can't speak for Trinity), means you get access to some quite significant business people who give guest lectures.

I'd gladly give you any other insights from my experience doing one if you want, either ask here or PM


----------



## eggerb

River said:


> ...
> MBA choices would probably be between Smurfit/Trinity/Manchester, with Manchester probably current favourite.


 
DCU also seems to offer an MBA (an or a  ). Does anybody have an opinion on the [broken link removed]?


----------



## extopia

eggerb said:


> Does anybody have an opinion on the [broken link removed]?



Yes - disappointing.

At least it was several years ago when I was there and the standard of the staff was poor-to-middling, with one or two glaring exceptions.


----------



## Square Mile

Take a look at yesterday's irish Times.  There was an education supplement which discussed various postgraduate options, including a large section on MBAs.  There was also a large article on distance learning.

SM


----------



## River

Square Mile said:


> Take a look at yesterday's irish Times.  There was an education supplement which discussed various postgraduate options, including a large section on MBAs.  There was also a large article on distance learning.
> 
> SM



thanks SQ, hopefully I can get my hands on a copy somewhere


----------



## Square Mile

Hi River

Whatever your decision, because there are so many 'iffy' MBA programmes around, you should ensure that the one you choose, at a minimum, is accreditated by the AMBA.  EQUIS accreditation would also be helpful.

Regards

SM


----------



## Squonk

Square Mile said:


> Hi River
> 
> Whatever your decision, because there are so many 'iffy' MBA programmes around, you should ensure that the one you choose, at a minimum, is accreditated by the AMBA.  EQUIS accreditation would also be helpful.
> 
> Regards
> 
> SM


  True. I think Smurfit and Trinity are the only MBAs in Ireland that have any accreditation. The other option is the Open University Business School (Distance Education) where I did my MBA. This is triple accreddited ..see below:

"The OU Business School is accredited internationally by the European Foundation for Management Development, through its EQUIS programme; by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB); and the MBA is accredited by the Association of MBAs (AMBA). The School is one of only 21 business schools worldwide to have achieved all three accreditations."


----------



## rubberduckey

Hi Squonk,

Would you mind giving me some feedback on the Open University MBA??

I have a background in IT/Project Management and am contemplating doing an MBA.

Cost/Course quality etc etc.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Tangerine

amgd28 said:


> Hi,
> Definitely go for the MBA ahead of the MBS. I recently completed an MBA in Smurfit, and the MBS is very definitely looked down on even by the school.
> 
> I really want to do a Postgrad so that I can move to the next level in my job with real credibility. However I was going to go down the route of MBS as I assumed that it would be more focused and specialised whereas I felt MBA is more generalist. Does the MBA have more credibility in business because the actual process of getting the degree is more rigorous and bootcampish than the MBS?
> Many thanks
> Tangerine


----------



## Tangerine

amgd28 said:


> Hi,
> Definitely go for the MBA ahead of the MBS. I recently completed an MBA in Smurfit, and the MBS is very definitely looked down on even by the school.
> 
> I really want to do a Postgrad so that I can move to the next level in my job with real credibility. However I was intending to go down the route of MBS as I assumed that it would be more focused and specialised whereas I felt MBA is more generalist. Does the MBA have more credibility in business because the actual process of getting the degree is more rigorous and bootcampish than the MBS?
> Many thanks
> Tangerine


----------



## River

Tangerine said:


> amgd28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the MBA have more credibility in business because the actual process of getting the degree is more rigorous and bootcampish than the MBS?
> Many thanks
> Tangerine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im just looking into this at the moment too so no real experience to speak of but my view on it is that an MBA is much more focused on real working life experiences/skills and attempting to give participants lessons that will allow them to add value to their workplaces, particularly at management levels. An MBS would seem to be more focused on giving a particular skill set in the chosen discipline.
> 
> So could be said that MBA is more general as it is concerned with overall dynamic of a company/business whereas an MBS may be more focused.
> 
> Choosing between the 2 would really depend on what direction you want your career to go. In my case, I was thinking of doing an MBS in strategic management but I now feel that an MBA would be better suited as it would encapture most of the strategic lessons of the MBS but would also add real life examples and may also be better regarded by employers.
> 
> again its just my take on it but hope this helps
Click to expand...


----------



## Betsy Og

Often thought it would be cool to do an MBA but as it would just be a real ego thing (I already have a masters - lack of qualifications wont ever be my downfall ... just the actual doing work bit  ) my inclination would be to try to do it in Harvard or some other Ivy League place.

Does this cost ridiculous amounts? I'm presuming these are at or near the top of the FT rankings? Are they any harder than MBA's elsewhere - would you need to be a genuine "rocket scientist" to survive it?

Bit of a pipe dream due to young family, not yet loaded, no pressing reason to do it etc. etc., but if you dont have a dream, then you should have a dream, or how you gonna have a dream come true ??!!


----------



## amgd28

Tangerine said:


> I really want to do a Postgrad so that I can move to the next level in my job with real credibility. However I was intending to go down the route of MBS as I assumed that it would be more focused and specialised whereas I felt MBA is more generalist. Does the MBA have more credibility in business because the actual process of getting the degree is more rigorous and bootcampish than the MBS?
> Many thanks
> Tangerine


Depends what you want out of your career. All I can say is that an MBA will open your eyes and you willnever be overawed by a senior executive again. You'll have the confidence to talk the talk and walk the walk. This is particularly true in an exec MBA course (part-time), as you are interacting all the time with senior guys from other companies and business disciplines. I think the ROI is far higher with an MBA....


----------



## amgd28

Betsy Og said:


> Often thought it would be cool to do an MBA but as it would just be a real ego thing (I already have a masters - lack of qualifications wont ever be my downfall ... just the actual doing work bit  ) my inclination would be to try to do it in Harvard or some other Ivy League place.
> 
> Does this cost ridiculous amounts? I'm presuming these are at or near the top of the FT rankings? Are they any harder than MBA's elsewhere - would you need to be a genuine "rocket scientist" to survive it?



I think you'd be looking at somewhere in the region of 100k for this....If you want a great career in the states, then you'll probably get payback reasonably quickly. If you want to come back to work in Ireland, my personal view is that it will be quite obvious that its an ego thing, and may not serve you well in the long run.....

In relation to the rocket scientist bit, you need to know that the subject matter in an MBA is not _in general_ extremely intellectually challenging. You don't need to be a rocket scientist. However the volume of work is quite significant and that is where you can fall down. A bit like work I suppose....


----------



## eggerb

Squonk said:


> True. I think Smurfit and Trinity are the only MBAs in Ireland that have any accreditation...


 
The [broken link removed] seems to be accredited by the AMBA:

[broken link removed] (last paragraph)


----------



## Squonk

rubberduckey said:


> Hi Squonk,
> 
> Would you mind giving me some feedback on the Open University MBA??
> 
> I have a background in IT/Project Management and am contemplating doing an MBA.
> 
> Cost/Course quality etc etc.
> 
> Thanks in advance




I did an MBA with the Open University..absolutely excellent. The quality of the material is first-class because it is essentially written by a committee so there are no 'bad lecturers' and feedback from students is regularly incorporated back into the material. The OU MBA fitted in well around my family and work life and I had my tutorials at UCC. Believe me, it was hard work but very rewarding. I had considered doing the MBA at UCC or UL but neither were accredited the last time I checked (I think mainly because they don't have 'business schools' , not, as far as I've heard because the courses are sub-standaard). The downside is that the OU course is by distance-education so options to network are limited (even though there are residential schools and tutorial sessions). Also, I get the impression, that the OU 'brand' isn't as well received in Ireland even though the teaching quality is better than most Irish Universities (I know...I've other degrees from UCC and UL). The OU MBA doesn't appear on the FT league tables because it is part-time (but neither do UCC or UL which are full-time). My company paid for the MBA...total cost was ~€20k if  I recall correctly. See http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?Q01F02


----------



## amgd28

The thing with an OU MBA is that while academically it may be very challenging and rewarding, an integral part of the MBA process is the interaction with outher experienced executives from different industries, giving you different perspectives and potentially some mutually rewarding associations. 
I feel you are missing out on this with the OU, (but I'm open to correction Squonk....)


----------



## Squonk

amgd28 said:


> The thing with an OU MBA is that while academically it may be very challenging and rewarding, an integral part of the MBA process is the interaction with outher experienced executives from different industries, giving you different perspectives and potentially some mutually rewarding associations.
> I feel you are missing out on this with the OU, (but I'm open to correction Squonk....)


 The OU is fully aware of this 'deficiency' in its teaching process. Their way around this is to have frequent tutorial session where you meet others from your region who are studying the same modules ( Ihad mine in UCC). You are then encouraged to start study groups which aids relationship building. Furthermore, most modules have week-long resisdential schools where you head off to bootcamp to network and interact (i.e. drink!)with students/managers from all around Europe. These managers are from different cultures, and have very diverse experiences and opinions. This is generally the highlight of most modules. Furthermore, because of the way modules are staggered you are not stuck with the same classmates for the full duration of the MBA. So, if anything, I would propose that with the OU MBA you get to meet many more managers from diverse industries all over Europe than you might with an Irish-based MBA.


----------



## amgd28

Sounds good. Obviously worked for you.....I just wanted to emphasise that the benefits of the are at least as much about the people as it is about the learning. OU has evidently recognised this, so no more adverse comments from me!


----------



## jrewing

Is it possible to claim tax relief on fees, for example, if I was to do a distance learning MBA ?


----------



## Square Mile

"Is it possible to claim tax relief on fees, for example, if I was to do a distance learning MBA ?"

Yes, in many cases. Certainly for the OU and the larger European universities / colleges.  You can check the particular institution with the Revenue  Commissioners.  You can claim up to €5000 per annum at 20% i.e. € 1,000 reimbursed to you.  You can download the form to claim 3rd level relief from Oasis (or whatever it is called now).

SM


----------



## jrewing

I am considering doing a Distance Learning MBA, and am trying to decide between Manchester and Open University. While I prefer Manchester's good reputation and high ranking in the FT table, it takes 3.5 yrs, as opposed to 2.5 yrs for the Open University one. At this stage in my life, I really think the shorter course would be beneficial for my family life.

Does anybody have any advice for me in making this decision? Am I wrong to focus on the course duration? I have read all the above posts.


----------



## Squonk

JR...can you explain something to me....the OU does not appear in the FT rankings for the reasons it gives below. How does Manchester get in the ranking if it's also distance education? Is it because they offer a fulltime option also?

"Do not be concerned that this MBA does not appear in either the Financial Times or Wall Street Journal league tables. These tables are restricted to full-time study programmes, many students on which seek employment after they complete. The OU MBA does not qualify for these tables because it is for people studying part-time and already in a managerial position."


----------



## Square Mile

Hi

Manchester, Bradford, Durham etc have DL MBA programs listed in the FT and Which rankings because they offer full time MBA courses.  The part time and DL offerings can be ranked in the same way because the course content, assignments and exams are almost identical, and the end qualification is the same, regardless of the delivery method.

SM


----------



## jrewing

So are we suggesting that OU is fudging the matter, and that they just didn't make it ?


----------



## Squonk

jrewing said:


> So are we suggesting that OU is fudging the matter, and that they just didn't make it ?


No....the OU doesn't offer any full-time study option (unlike the other universities mentioned). Therefore it does not qualify for the FT rankings (The FT only deals with full-time courses, not distance education). Remember that the OU is triple-accredited...it's not fudging anything.


----------



## Square Mile

Hello

Exactly as Squonk says, they are just different.  

SM


----------



## camel

A previous poster mentioned doing a part time UCD MBA. I would also be interested in this. I went on the website and the standard MBA doesn't mention anything about part-time. The Exec MBA does, but the standard one would fit me better I think. Anyone shed any light on how the courses are offered? Also, for a part-time MBA, what would people expect the time outlay to be per week for classes/study ...15 hours?


----------



## obella

DCU MBA in my opinion was much more impressive than undergraduate course of study in another Dublin University. Agree with amgd28 that the main advantage gained is the ranges of experiences from classmates through class discussions, projects etc - distance learning would be unlikely to offer the same depth here. 
Camel - Executive means part time for most MBA courses, the main course of study would be the same as 'standard' one. Hours wise as a part time student: 8 hours lectures per week, about 10 hours reading and project work, another 3 hours or so on group work. Plus most people on busy jobs - say goodbye to social life. that said, it was very rewarding and I would recommend it as an exercise in itself, let alone the career benefits.


----------



## camel

Thanks for the response obella.
Why would you recommend the DCU MBA?
The social impact of the MBA doesn't worry me too much, but I do have a little toddler that has to be taken into account!

Do any of the MBAs focus more on entrepreneurial activity than career development. My preference would be to engage in the former. Or are they all equal in that way?


----------



## obella

It would be worthwhile attending the open days which are on around this time of year to assess one course against another, especially if you want to focus on particular strengths (such as entrepreueurial). Most MBAs focus on the larger corporate stories of success and failure as far as I know though - I guess most people with entrepreneurial strengths get out there and do it instead of spending all their spare time in lectures when they could be making money! There is an Entrepreneurship subject in DCU second year however.
Benefits? Smaller classes so strong relationships developed and more access to the war stories of your classmates, one long day a week instead of two shorter ones - means less travel time, more time to get reading etc out of the way. It also suited me as I live closer than to UCD


----------



## cmartin

Have a little toddler as well and for that reason chose the MBA with the OUBS rather than UCC. With the OUBS you now interact with other students online for your TMAs so you do get an appreciation for the experience of others. For my last TMA I was in online discussion with one person in a UK Software company and another in the UK Foreign Commonwealth Office in Hong Kong. I found this very useful even though we are not talking in person. Just five months in but i would recommend it to anyone.


----------



## jrewing

TMAs ?


----------



## Squonk

jrewing said:


> TMAs ?


Tutor Marked Assignment


----------



## camel

How does the Open University stack up cost-wise? I had a quick look and the modules look very expensive, 2 to 3 grand sterling. How many of these do you have to do?
I think it might be an option for me alright.
What is the course completion timeframe?


----------



## jrewing

Hi Camel,

I looked at Open Uni too, and was a little put off by costs. not only are the modules quite expensive, but they increase by 10% between two intakes 6 months apart. As you will be taking modules for approx 2.5 yrs, there is no way of knowing how much they will increase in the meantime.

I am 95% decided to go with one for Manchester Business School. The prices are transparent, they are fixed for the course once you start, and there is a 10% discount for early registration. I reckon it will work out approx 25% cheaper.

Just to point out, cost was not #1 in making my decision, however, the transparency of the fee structure helped me make up my mind.


----------



## amgd28

camel said:


> Thanks for the response obella.
> Do any of the MBAs focus more on entrepreneurial activity than career development. My preference would be to engage in the former. Or are they all equal in that way?



While some subjects in the MBA can be taught from a corporate mindset, this is not to say that you cannot turn them to your benefit in an entrepreneurial perspective. I did my MBA in Smurfit, and in starting my business post MBA, I can say I learned something in most modules that benefited me in the great wide world of entrepreneurship. In addition I was able to select electives in entrepreneurship and new venture finance (and 1-2 other courses along that vein were available)
I will say this however for the entrepreneurial courses - if it hadn't been for these I wouldn't have taken the plunge and left my well paid job to pursue my new venture in a completely new industry. the people I met and the ideas I developed led me to resign by beginning november, and five months later I'm thrilled at having grasped the nettle


----------



## River

jrewing said:


> I am 95% decided to go with one for Manchester Business School. The prices are transparent, they are fixed for the course once you start, and there is a 10% discount for early registration. I reckon it will work out approx 25% cheaper.
> QUOTE]
> 
> As far as I am aware, you also get all your books and study materials included in the price from Manchester Bus School.
> 
> JR - do you know how many workshops you will need to attend over a calender year? From what I have read it appears to be two 6-day periods, one in Mar and then sept. Do you know if this is correct? its a shame that the institute of bankers dont offer the course anymore


----------



## jrewing

River,
That's correct: 2 x 6 day seminars per year.

JR


----------



## camel

A cornerstone of the Manchester MBA seems to be this 'Manchester Method' concept, which is basically team work I think. Sounds reasonable. 
However, does anyone know how this works when doing a distance learning MBA, i.e. how are group projects handled?


----------



## jrewing

I found the advisors in Manchester to be very helpful, and they can give you the details on the project stage. You'll find a phone number on the website.


----------



## camel

Went to the Smurfit open day a couple of weeks ago. Looks good. Plenty of electives which I like as I like the idea of tailoring/directing the course based on interests. Is there a Trinity and DCU open day any time soon (I checked websites but couldn't find anything).


----------



## scatriona

How does the MBA in private colleges such as Griffith compare to UCD, DCU, TCD etc..?


----------



## camel

Well all I know is that UCD and Trinity are in the Financial Times top 100 list, and Griffith is not. I guess this means better lectures, material, opportunities, etc with these colleges.


----------



## Square Mile

Scatriona

When choosing an MBA, it is essential to check that thay are accredited by at least the AMBA.  It is also better if they have the EQUIS accreditation.

TCD, UCD, Open University etc are accredited.  Check the websites for the Association of MBAs (AMBA) for approved suppliers.

SM


----------



## scatriona

Thanks!


----------



## Mr Toad

When doing an MBA the accreditation(s) a college has and rankings surveys - FT, Economist etc is v important. More so if you are a recent grad and have less experience to show on your CV; employer will look to academics, sporting achievements etc. 

It will vary with industry of course but  I tend to think that in Ireland employers tend to be relatively egalitarian and don't put that much store on the reputations of different Universities and colleges. Internationally the story is revered and name recognition of a college is much more important and can be a deciding factor if you get an interview or not.

My personal view is that I would not do an MBA from a private college (I should clarify an Irish private college in case someone wishes to point out Harvard is also private). Just as given the choice I would not do a primary degree at one. 

Looking at options in Ireland; Trinity do a well regarded 1 year full time MBA and UCD have a good executive 2 year MBA. 

However if doing a full time MBA I would go abroad - international experience is alway a bonus.


----------

