# Danerous baby car seat situation



## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

Hi ,

My two year old toddler can get out of the shoulder straps of his car seat so he is basically seating in the car without restraints,I have tried everything to sort this, pulled the straps as far as I could to be tight around him, but this made no difference, then I made a device to hod the straps together at his chest but that was useless, he gets out every time and he is not small, I am terrified driving with him, anyone any ideas what to do or if there are devices for this problem, thanks.


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## fraggle (24 May 2010)

Reward him for not doing it? Perhaps start off with a few very short trips so he gets the idea and then progress on to longer trips.


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## mathepac (24 May 2010)

It sounds like a poorly designed or cheap car-seat. Most modern child seats will have a child-proof clip that joins the shoulder-straps across the child's chest something like [broken link removed] (not a recommendation for the brand of seat, just for illustration purposes)

Does yours have something this?


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## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

*Dangerous car seat*

Hi , I have tried the reward the threats etc, nothing works, he is very headstrong in that way and cant have this carrying on, the seat I have was one of the more expensive seats, cant for the life of me remember the name at the moment,I got it because of its safety deatils, but I checked the picture you sent me and no it does not have the clip across the chest, wonder if I could get that clip separately or where to buy as last resort, the car seat in the picture.


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## niceoneted (24 May 2010)

I know he is only 2 but I think it helps if you explain why he needs it. I often see parents telling there child not to do this or to do that but never giving an explanation at to why. 
This is what I did with my nieces and nephews when they were small and it always worked. 
also try going somewhere and then turning back and go home if he gets out. If it is somewhere he wants or likes to go he will soon get the message if he doesn't get to go.


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## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

*Dangerous car seat*

Hi,

I agree with you about explaining things to children, they understand more than we think, we do explain things to him, but you see he only turned two three weeks ago. and he does not really understand about returning home if he does not behave, because he doesnt really understand that we might be going somewhere nice, but I will try your suggestion, maybe let me partner drive and I will sit in the back with the monkey and see how he reacts, probably jsut a wrestle match as usual !


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## mathepac (24 May 2010)

Greeneye said:


> ... wonder if I could get that clip separately or where to buy as last resort, the car seat in the picture.


Try Halfords, Argos, MotherCare, etc.

I would not recommend adding a clip to an existing harness as this may effect the child's comfort / safety, how it works in an accident or the warranty; look at buying a seat with the clip designed in.


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## Hillsalt (24 May 2010)

www.rollercoaster.ie is an excellent Irish parenting website which has a message board. Try there for advice.


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## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

Have tried that websiste but have yet to receive a reply, so much for mothers help!! Think I need to get new seat, god the expense, my seat is only 11 months old and was pretty expensive, kids are so expensive!!


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## huskerdu (24 May 2010)

A friend of mine got a Garda to explain to the child that he had to keep his straps on. 
The kid was a bit older than yours but it worked a treat


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## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

I wish he would listen to a Garda my lilfe would be lot easier in lots of ways!!! I would have him eating vegatables and everything!! He cant be the only child who does this, I might try the Duffy show its serious enough for this, keep your ears out, cant believe I am appealing to the nation for help with him hope this is not sign of the future!


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## annR (24 May 2010)

I find it very strange that a child would be able to get out of the straps on a well designed car seat.  If they are tight enough how would he be able to get out of them.  Sorry it's not that I don't believe you but just don't understand.


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## remote (24 May 2010)

I had this exact problem when my now 11 year old was a toddler. He was a little older than yours, I had tried literally everything. One day I pressed hard on the brakes (but not too hard, just enough to give him a fright) while driving down our driveway, he had taken off his belt. He understood why you must wear your belt after that and to this day he wouldn't travel in a car without putting on his belt. It sounds harsh, but I had tried everything.


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## fizzelina (24 May 2010)

Greeneye said:


> I wish he would listen to a Garda my lilfe would be lot easier in lots of ways!!! I would have him eating vegatables and everything!! He cant be the only child who does this, I might try the Duffy show its serious enough for this, keep your ears out, cant believe I am appealing to the nation for help with him hope this is not sign of the future!


 
So your 2 year old is so "headstrong" that he literally won't do what you tell him? Well for your sake hopefully it's not a sign of the future.


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## Greeneye (24 May 2010)

LAST POSTER - Thats what I just said - no point in sending any more message I am not going to read them from you, not in humour your type of posting. 

The car seat is well made in lots of respects but just in this one regard, I have tightened the belts as much as they will go but he manages to get out, I have really tried everything, but was just wondering if there was a device for this, will just keep looking on the internet.


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## mathepac (24 May 2010)

Greeneye said:


> ... will just keep looking on the internet.


Why not call into a few car-seat shops and ask advice from sales staff?


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## Complainer (24 May 2010)

Might be worth checking if the RSA are running these events again soon;

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/C...fety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/

Or speak to a good shop - Tony Kealy's in Walkinstown was always good for advice on this stuff.


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## MANTO (24 May 2010)

mathepac said:


> Why not call into a few car-seat shops and ask advice from sales staff?


 
+1 Pop into Halfords

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/s...1_catalogId_15551_categoryId_212399_langId_-1


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## Megan (24 May 2010)

Greeneye said:


> Have tried that websiste but have yet to receive a reply, so much for mothers help!! Think I need to get new seat, god the expense, my seat is only 11 months old and was pretty expensive, kids are so expensive!!


Can you remember where you bought the car seat. If I was you I would go back to the shop and ask for help there. You shouldn't have to buy a new car seat after 11 months. They might be able to get some advise from the makers of the seat.


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## fizzelina (25 May 2010)

Greeneye said:


> LAST POSTER - Thats what I just said - no point in sending any more message I am not going to read them from you, not in humour your type of posting.


 
That's fair enough Greeneye if you're not in the humour of reading posts from someone who queries whether the problem here is with the "well made" seat or if the problem is the fact a 2 year old has the upper hand on a parent. You're going to a lot of internet research on different seat options, why not check research on how to cope with toddlers asserting their independance and doing what they are told.
And if you are not in the humour for what people write then don't go on a public forum asking advice.


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## doubledeb (25 May 2010)

Hi Greeneye
Just looking through the posts there and I doubt its the car seat is the problem as in they are all made to a safety standard and the child has obviously worked out how to get the arms out anyway.
I would suggest this... Its much easier to rear other peoples kids, especially when it comes to discipline.
I know my nephews would listen to me faster when told not to do something, more than they would their mother.  I also have an almost 2 year old that has me wrapped around his little finger. Child is also very headstrong (stubborn).  Why not get a friend or relative to bring him for a small spin and let him do what he does in the seat.  Get that person to tell him not to do it very firmly and see what happens?
It does depend on what he understands too though.


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## Claire1956 (25 May 2010)

When one of mine started the same habit as mentioned by OP my other half put my small child and myself out of the car and drove off (out of sight). I explained that we all needed to wear the belt when in the car or we would be put out.......no issues to date. But it needs two people to make this work! Not sure if it is of help Greeneye, just an idea.


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## Megan (25 May 2010)

http://www.babycrowd.com/forums/tra...undo_the_carseat_and_get_out__pg114528754536/
Alot of people with the same  problem on above link and it looks like  it is not the seat you have to change but work with the child to try and let him know that if he is going to travel by car he has to keep his straps on.


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## Mpsox (25 May 2010)

Just because the seat was expensive, it doesn't mean it is the best. If you live in Dublin, go up to Kealys in Walkinstown
[broken link removed]

They are very very good ( and usually pretty reasonable as well) as this is their "bread and butter" as opposed to the Halfords of this world where car seats are just one of a wide range of things they sell


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## Vanilla (25 May 2010)

For sure there is an add-on clip that you can buy which is specially designed for this. I know I had it with my youngest. She would slip off the straps in order to lean forward to look out the window. I bought it in mothercare but that's a few years ago.


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## Crugers (25 May 2010)

Vanilla said:


> For sure there is an add-on clip that you can buy which is specially designed for this. I know I had it with my youngest. She would slip off the straps in order to lean forward to look out the window. I bought it in mothercare but that's a few years ago.


 
I would be more than a little concerned with adding anything to the original design... I'm presuming the original child seat design was tested as is and designed to work as is, in an emergency. Adapting its design might (just might) make it not work as designed and as tested...

There are two issues:
(1) Getting the toddler to accept that wearing the restraint is obligatory. No if's no but's, no exceptions!
(2) Ensuring the restraint and seat is fitted and adjusted correctly.

The suggestions already given, the friendly serious Garda or the serious friend or getting 'dumped' on the roadside seem like good ideas and hopefully one or a combination of the will work for the OP in convincing the toddler.
Getting professional advice on the correct fitting and adjustment is vital! If the seat isn't fitted and adjusted correctly (it might not be) it could do more harm than good when and if you need it!
HTH


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## Complainer (25 May 2010)

doubledeb said:


> Its much easier to rear other peoples kids, especially when it comes to discipline.
> I know my nephews would listen to me faster when told not to do something, more than they would their mother.  I also have an almost 2 year old that has me wrapped around his little finger. Child is also very headstrong (stubborn).  Why not get a friend or relative to bring him for a small spin and let him do what he does in the seat.  Get that person to tell him not to do it very firmly and see what happens?


I'm not so sure about this. It could be actually undermining Mum and Dad, and setting the expectation that Mum and Dad are to be ignored.

How about choosing a time when you are not rushed (e.g. not the morning commute) and just refusing to move the car unless/until he stays in his seat in the proper position?


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## Vanilla (25 May 2010)

Crugers said:


> I would be more than a little concerned with adding anything to the original design... I'm presuming the original child seat design was tested as is and designed to work as is, in an emergency. Adapting its design might (just might) make it not work as designed and as tested...



Er, yes, of course the add on clip was tested and conformed to safety standards- do you really think it would have been sold in a shop like mothercare otherwise- or that you're the only person who would have the same concern?  As I said, it's a few years ago now but I particularly remember it as we had a similar issue with one of our children and believe it or not, we actually thought about adding something to the child seat straps before we did it! .

I can't remember what age our daughter was when she went through this phase, but I think around 18 months- I could have reasoned with her until I was blue in the face and fat lot of good that would have done.


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## Staples (25 May 2010)

Mpsox said:


> Just because the seat was expensive, it doesn't mean it is the best. If you live in Dublin, go up to Kealys in Walkinstown
> [broken link removed]


 
Speaking of Kealy's reminds me of their advice to me a few years ago to tighten the restraints as much as possible so that the child doesn't _have_ any wriggle room.

I was uncomfortable doing this at first as I thought it was an unreasonable level of restraint but the more I thought about it the more it made sense.  If a restraint is loose enough to allow a child wriggle free, you'd have to wonder whether they would be adequately restrained in the event of a sudden impact.

Racing drivers (dubious analogy, I know) are restrained to the point of being almost welded to the seat.


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## shopgirl (25 May 2010)

Had the same issue with a child and I tried lots of different things, the one that worked was telling her that her favourite cartoon character used the same kind of seat belt, I had also intended attaching a sticker/badge of the character but didn't need to as she was so taken with the idea of having the same seat belt as Mickey Mouse that it wasn't necessary.  Every time we got into the car after that she mentioned the seat belt & Mickey Mouse, about 18 months after I told her this I heard her relaying this information to her baby sister!  Worth a try.  Good luck.


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## losttheplot (25 May 2010)

Had the same issue too. Every time they did it, I would stop the car and tighten the straps, if they are tight enough they can't get their arms out. It is uncomfortable, but the thought of having the straps made tighter seemd to deter them. Also mentioned that the Guards would give out if they saw it. The scene from Toy Story also helped explain why the straps are needed. Woody and Buzz jump into a pizza van, Buzz sits in the front and puts on the safety belt. Woody sits in the back with no belt - Woody gets thrown around while Buzz is all comfy.This was pointed out to me while watching the movie with the child, so she figured out why they were needed herself. She now explains this to her younger sister....TV isn't all bad.


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## hippy1975 (25 May 2010)

Ease up there Fizzelinia, there are toddlers that would run rings around many of us, so pipe down.

Greeneye, I can't offer more advice than what has already been given but just to say fair play to you for taking it seriously and don't give up, my SIL is an ICU nurse in a major childrens hosp and she time and time again says she can't believe why this isn't made a bigger issue due to the horrific injuries that kids sustain, it's similar to them just having a lap belt on and they just get thrown.   Fair play to you and don't give up,


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## AlbacoreA (26 May 2010)

Some kids would out escape houdini. Some hardly ever try. My experience was its a phase they go through, and a 2 they don't really have that much sense to reason with them, or you don't have the time for a battle. An extra tie on the belts is a stop gap. When they are a bit older, 2.5+ the pulling in until they belt up seems to work. We've a 1yr old that seems to be a bit of quick learner with escaping the belts on everything.

Check the belts are in the right position. Usually they have 3 or 4 height positions and you need to move them higher as the child grows. Too low and they get out easy.


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## Crugers (26 May 2010)

Vanilla said:


> Er, yes, of course the add on clip was tested and conformed to safety standards


The point I was attempting to make was that if *the seat* required an extra clip then *the seat* might not be the recommended type or size for the child. *The seat* would not have been safety tested with the clip so any results of the tests could not be relied upon as a recommendation for using *the seat* with the clip. Adapting *the seat* harness "*might (just might)*" not be the best or a recommended solution.




Vanilla said:


> - do you really think it would have been sold in a shop like mothercare otherwise


In their current "Guide to Car Seats", Mothercare say "Never modify a child seat, its fittings, the harness, or buckle to make it fit your car.". Do you think they recommend modifying it to fit the child? And do they still sell and recommend the modifying clip?




Vanilla said:


> - or that you're the only person who would have the same concern?


Ehhh! No! I do believe many other have the same concerns... 
The RSA ran a recent roadshow countrywide "Check it Fits" where you could 'get your child seat checked for free'. So it seems they are concerned too! They asked that you bring your car, your seat and your child presumably because all three have to 'fit' together for safety sake.




Vanilla said:


> and believe it or not, we actually thought about adding something to the child seat straps before we did it! .


I believe it!


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## mathepac (26 May 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> ...  Check the belts are in the right position.  Usually they have 3 or 4 height positions and you need to move them  higher as the child grows. Too low and they get out easy.


Good  point. IIRC there are pairs of horizontal slits in the solid frame of  the seat beneath the seat cover that allow the shoulder straps to be  moved and adjusted as the child grows.


Crugers said:


> ...  *The seat* would not have been safety tested with the clip so any results of the tests could not be relied upon as a recommendation for using *the seat* with the clip. ...


+1


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## AlbacoreA (26 May 2010)

You have to have some common sense. Thats standard  legal blurb to cover themselves in case a seat is modified so that its function is compromised. Its talking about fitting a seat to a car as they are often fitted incorrectly. 

Thats an entirely different topic to the fit of a child in a seat. Likewise, a child fitting correctly in a seat is an entirely different topic to keeping a child in a seat. 

The suggestion that there is a problem with the design of a seat if a child can escape is just nonsense. Theres no such thing as an escape proof seat. Kids are clever, they learn, they see you locking and unlocking it all the time. You do it in front of them. They can't but learn it. Kids are also very flexible, they can wiggle in and out of impossible spaces. A couple of straps is nothing. 

So unless its like a straight jacket or a racing car harness its escapable. Putting an extra tie, to keep the belts in place isn't ideal either as it makes quick exit from the car harder and the child might get tangled in it. But that has to be balanced against the risk of the child being out of their seat, or not in it fully. 

But its a phase that passes with age and education. Some kids accept it easier then others. 



> Which child safety seat is escape-proof?
> Unfortunately, there is no escape-proof safety seat. Children who learn how to get out of one kind of safety seat soon learn how to escape from others. However, most children quickly respond to parental firmness. This finding is based on a study conducted by SafetyBeltSafe U.S.A. with data collected from a range of English- and Spanish-speaking families.
> For the others, first make sure that the shoulder straps are in the correct slots, that the harness is very snug, and that the retainer clip is in place at armpit level.
> Next, plan to spend one or two intense weeks working on the problem. Bring the safety seat into your home and let your child play "mom" or "dad," and carefully buckle in a favorite doll or animal. This dramatic play begins the process of identification with the best way to behave. Schedule each trip so that you have enough time to pull over and stop the car every single time your child gets out of the safety seat. Each time, explain that you cannot drive until everyone is buckled up. If you act bored instead of angry, she will soon get tired of misbehaving.
> ...





As you move from coats to t shirts and or the child gets big fast when young, you might end up adjusting the seats a lot more often than you think.


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