# ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms)



## Sparki74 (25 Aug 2006)

Hi there,
We're looking into building a two storey 2800 ft in Cork with ICF. Spoke to a company in Cavan about it, sounds good. In lay men's terms, it's like a concrete sandwich.... takes about 2/3 days to put up a house. Have any of you ever heard of it or can ye give me any recommendations.

Thanks


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## ninsaga (25 Aug 2006)

Sparki74 said:


> Hi there,
> We're looking into building a two storey 2800 ft in Cork with ICF. Spoke to a company in Cavan about it, sounds good. In lay men's terms, it's like a concrete sandwich.... takes about 2/3 days to put up a house. Have any of you ever heard of it or can ye give me any recommendations.
> 
> Thanks



Theer are a couple of threads on ICF's in thsi forum if you use the search facility. Most appear though to be more query related like your own.

One of the things I've noticed about it though is that it looks suitable for sure where you are cladding/bricking the exterior. There appears to be synthetic/acrylic renders available that adhere to the EPS... but I'd wonder if there would be problems in years to come with it falling off.

Who's to crowd in cavan that you are looking at?


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## millertime (25 Aug 2006)

There is a company in Clare doing it called Vision Homes Ltd. I am not connected to this company in any way


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## ninsaga (25 Aug 2006)

...as well as.....

ecoform, styrostone, rewardwalls, nudura, euromac & polarwall.... to mention just a few


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## bluebell (25 Aug 2006)

Also Eurozone in Enniscorthy Co. Wexford.... My partner has just started to build a house using it.  will post back his comments.


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## ninsaga (25 Aug 2006)

bluebell said:


> Also Eurozone in Enniscorthy Co. Wexford.... My partner has just started to build a house using it.  will post back his comments.



why did he choose them?


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## Sparki74 (4 Sep 2006)

The crowd in Cavan are called Interspec, they are based in Ballinagh. I was talking to the owner who seems to know a lot about a lot of things when it comes to houses. He said that no matter what company you go with, with respect to ICF, it is the best build. 

We just got our planning permission through last week and we're thrilled. All the hard work starts here!


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## ninsaga (4 Sep 2006)

Sparki74 said:


> The crowd in Cavan are called Interspec, they are based in Ballinagh. I was talking to the owner who seems to know a lot about a lot of things when it comes to houses. He said that no matter what company you go with, with respect to ICF, it is the best build.



....its Integraspec by the way.

And no, not all ICF systems are the same...

- polarwall use extruded polystyrene as opposed to expanded polystyrene (EPS) by other suppliers..... I don't know which is better
- some, but not all systems have furring strips so that you can screw plaseter board onto as opposed to dab & slab
- the thickness of the UPS varies also 50mm's each side upwards. Integraspec are at 63mm's each side.
- euromac have a roofing systems & concrete insitu system. (have not seen that from anyone else)

...apart from the system, you need to watch that the installer is experienced & knows what he is doing. The walls have to be straight.

- also does your builder know how to correctly apply the acrylic renders so that it does not crack in the future. (he will tell you yes... ask to see where they have done this, inspect, have your engineer inspect)

...just a few things to be aware of.

Fortunately for you, as far as I can see, Integraspec looks to be a pretty good system.

Have you got quotes on how much this will cost v's a highly insulated conventional form of construction?

ninsaga

BTW, just be wary of "he owner who seems to know a lot about a lot of things when it comes to houses" ... he's a salesman...... has he told you of any downsides? 
Is his system/bulder homebondeed/premier bonded etc etc?


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## bluebell (5 Sep 2006)

Ninsaga,

he chose eurpzone after visiting a number of different companies and looking at their products.  all of the prodcuts differ slightly.  he found this company very open in allowing him in to thier factory to examine their products.  he is also dealing directly with the MD who is helpful and interested in the job, not just in selling his product.  but i think the main reason he chose eurpzone is because it is manufactured in enniscorthy where as a lot of other companies import the product from usa and canada.  he is guaranteed stock as and when he needs it with eurozone as opposed to having to wait for container to arrive in etc....


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## Sparki74 (8 Sep 2006)

Hi There, thanks for your comments. After reading come comments on it, I can see that there are a lot of questions that need addressing. I don't want to take the risk of putting up ICF walls with a possibility of them bulging.


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## Madilla (8 Sep 2006)

Where can I get contact details for the company in Ballinagh-I have checked phone book and done a search to no avail


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## Sparki74 (8 Sep 2006)

hi, I don't have the number on me today but will let you know it on Monday.


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## clara26 (8 Sep 2006)

Once the right render is used it will never come off the wall. If you look to how houses/buildings are built in Germany etc they always insulate on the outside and apply the render to it. This is not a new system, its just kinda new to Ireland. But any old render cannot be used. The best I have found to date is Weber (Northern Ireland) and Terraco (Wicklow). The comforting thing about both these companies is that they insist installers be trained specifically for their products. If they havent been trained, dont use them.


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## z102 (8 Sep 2006)

The Continentals ( incl. the Germans) use EPS on the outside of the buildings. After the wall is standing and dry. They hardly ever use insulation on the inside of a building due to its structure and insulation damaging effect if not done propably 
Structure damaging because moisture trapped in a wall will damage any structure, the timber in the joist hangers for example.
U-value influence because of the moisature in the walls trapped. The moisture transmission rate of a wall has to increase with every layer of material, starting on the inside of the wall with a low transmission rate, increasing to the outside. If the material used on the inside is of the same moisture transmission class i.e. made from the same material as the outside material the disaster is pre-programmed. 
And most manufacturers of these EPS boxes use one and the same material for the inside as for the outside......And do not even state the fact that a moisture transmission does occure. The moisture transmission rate/class of the concrete-or whatever goes in - must be stated as well......and who on site can mix a concrete according to stated moisture transmission numbers ?!
My personal view: if you don't know how to use concrete then use something else to build with.Cast concrete structures for homes are not common in Ireland, most that are errected are precast. Concrete engineering is still in it's infantcy here. And these salesmen are making a chance of it.


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## z102 (10 Sep 2006)

Check also this closed thread:http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=35374


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## unfortunate (10 Sep 2006)

in case anyone is interested i did a thesis on integraspec and energy efficiency in the construction industry.  using thermal imaging, h.e.r and standard calculations I.C.F came out ahead of timber frame and standard build every time.  the system i analysed was Integraspec and i took thermal images of one of their developments in Birr.  the builder down there was very happy with the system and now vows he'll never go back!


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## sas (10 Sep 2006)

unfortunate said:


> in case anyone is interested i did a thesis on integraspec and energy efficiency in the construction industry. using thermal imaging, h.e.r and standard calculations I.C.F came out ahead of timber frame and standard build every time. the system i analysed was Integraspec and i took thermal images of one of their developments in Birr. the builder down there was very happy with the system and now vows he'll never go back!


 
Was the builder in Birr "Platinum ICF" by any chance?


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## Sparki74 (11 Sep 2006)

Sparki74 said:


> hi, I don't have the number on me today but will let you know it on Monday.


 

IntergraSpec's contact details are:

P: 049 4374000
F: 049 4336823
e: integraspecirl@eircom.net
w: [broken link removed]

Address: Kilnaleck, Co. Cavan


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## unfortunate (12 Sep 2006)

No the builder wasnt platinum ICF.  He was a contractor who was erecting the Integraspec system.  I will not post his name here as he may not want me to do so.  I was very happy with what I saw and thermal images were taken and these reflected very favourably on I.C.F.  I compared these images to thermal frame and they also proved much better than that too


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## sas (12 Sep 2006)

unfortunate said:


> No the builder wasnt platinum ICF. He was a contractor who was erecting the Integraspec system. I will not post his name here as he may not want me to do so. I was very happy with what I saw and thermal images were taken and these reflected very favourably on I.C.F. I compared these images to thermal frame and they also proved much better than that too



Thanks for that. Was just curious. I was onsite with Platinum with the Euromac system a few months ago.


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## ClubMan (12 Sep 2006)

I have removed posts in contravention of the posting guidelines from this thread. Further similar posts will be deleted and, if necessary, the perpetrators banned.


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## sas (12 Sep 2006)

I've been on site with Euromac and Polarwall in the last 2 months. It is worth going out to see one of these houses. Do some "tyre kicking" if you like. Neither were plastered yet though.

As regards how good the systems are, I was discussing this with an engineer I know yesterday on the journey home. He's PHD educated and is pretty high up one of the large Dublin based firms. He is also extremely sceptical if anything that isn't a concrete block cavity wall. I mentioned that the Polarwall system has a BRE certificate. At that he changed his tune completely, he reckoned the BRE are very reputable. Alot more so than the IAB for example.

However, something that did annoy me on my visit with Polarwall. They mentioned that it was BRE certified to me also. If you read the cert though it is certified if there is an outer leaf of blockwork separated from the polarwall by a cavity, making it very similar to a regular cavity wall. 

Polarwall were selling the system based on it being finished externally with one of the available plastering systems. The extra leaf of block work would push up the price of the build and introduce further complications based on the depth of reveals on the house I'd imagine.

At the self build show in punchestown 2 weeks ago I spoke to Facade Systems who are now giving a 10 years guarantee on their renders when used on ICF type builds.

Hope this is of use. Is there anyone out there actually living in an ICF house?


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## bats (14 Sep 2006)

Hi Sas,

I'm considering using Euromac for my house, have been out to view one of theirs currently under constuction. Any comments on how you found the Euromac system??

Cheers, bats


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## sas (15 Sep 2006)

bats said:


> Hi Sas,
> 
> I'm considering using Euromac for my house, have been out to view one of theirs currently under constuction. Any comments on how you found the Euromac system??
> 
> Cheers, bats


 
I have no expertise in house building or ICF but I can give you my impressions on the systems I've seen while trying to decide on a build type for my own house i.e. polarwall & euromac.

The Euromac system has the EOTA certification which is good if you have an architect willing to look beyond the IAB certs. 

Euromac has a BRE certificate which is more relevant to Ireland but only if you build the wall like cavity wall, i.e. with a masonry wall outer leaf. That is not how polarwall sold the system to me. The sheer depth of the wall on that basis would have expensive implications for your foundations.

Euromac push alot more on you than polarwall. 
For example, polarwall build the external wall of your house, full stop. Internal load bearing walls are standard block walls. For the first story floor you can use hollow core slabs. The roof is up to you to sort out also.

Euromac build the external and all internal load bearing ( and in one house I've seen non load bearing) walls. They also are pushy about you using their first floor system and roofing system. They also tried to sell me windows, doors and fireplace systems. 

Euromac also don't talk in any great technical detail about their product. I've spoke to a guy on another forum that has actually built with them. He is very happy with the build but 2 things did annoy him. 1, the original builder recommended to him by Euromac was apparently very dodgy when his work was looked into, and 2, the lack of technical support from Euromac. You ahve to depend on your builder heavily.

Another thing that I found a little off putting was the Euromac were dictating that you are wasting your money if you go for anything other than their +2 product. I think this gives an overall U-value of 0.2. This is good but not good enough for me if I'm going for an alternative system. They didn't mention the term passive house in the 2 hours I was with them.

Polawall can do a wall with a U-Value down to 0.11 and he did speak about passive houses. He also said that if I was to insist on having an open fire then he'd only sell me his cheapest system because I'd be wasting my money otherwise. Sounded harsh but at least he was straight with me.

Polarwall come out themselves to build the system, Euromac sell you the materials and recommend a builder to you and off you go.

Also, I felt that the EPS polystyrene Euromac use is considerably softer than the XPS polarwall use. I've done a "kick" test on both. However, once you plaster either type they are very hard to the touch.

The one thing about Euromac and most of the other systems versus polarwall is that the walls are supplied as components that are manufactured and just fitted together.
The polarwall product comes in parts. i.e. blocks of polystyrene for the internal wall face, block of polystyrene for the external walls face and the rail system that they use to hold the 2 faces together. The fact that the outer face is separated by the H-Rail between each layer of the wall suggested to me that there is a risk of a cold bridge forming. This is purely a personal theory of mine though.

Euromac is poured 1 full storey at a time which seems a better idea than the layering that Polarwall do. Polarwall do pour the a full storey in a day but they do several runs around the wall as opposed to Euromac who start in 1 corner and work around the house once to that same corner.

I don't like the fact that the fixing of slabs to the internals walls is a dab and slab effort in Euromac houses. I'd prefer the mechanical fixing that is possible with polarwall.

Thats about all I can think of.

SAS


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## randompunter (15 Sep 2006)

bluebell,
how's that house going with that eurozone system? I have looked at a few of the different systems myself for my house and liked that one too. They seem to have more options that some of the others like those ICF floors. Still haven't made up my mind fully, want to see some of them on site first.


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## ninsaga (15 Sep 2006)

Good research there SAS.... how does the polar wall fixing allow for attaching slabs on the inside...many of the different ICF systems (except Euromac), allow you to mechanically attach by driving a screw in through the slab on into the EPS. There are plastic 'rails' (for want of a better word!), that the screws go through.... now that does not look very apparent to me on the polarwall system.

You can se these rails easily enough on the [broken link removed] & [broken link removed] systems if you see what I mean

ninsaga


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## randompunter (15 Sep 2006)

Sas are all the systems only certified with an external leaf of block?


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## bluebell (15 Sep 2006)

Randompunter,

the house is going well, they poured the ground floor and the floor upstairs last saturday.... he is really impressed by it.  obviously there are a number of things he would do differently on the next house but it is a system of trial and error. they are pouring the 1st floor on monday i think. the house is  in the southeast if you are interested in seeing on of them pm me and i'll pass on his contact details to you.


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## sas (15 Sep 2006)

ninsaga said:


> Good research there SAS.... how does the polar wall fixing allow for attaching slabs on the inside...many of the different ICF systems (except Euromac), allow you to mechanically attach by driving a screw in through the slab on into the EPS. There are plastic 'rails' (for want of a better word!), that the screws go through.... now that does not look very apparent to me on the polarwall system.
> 
> You can se these rails easily enough on the Reward Walls & Integrespec systems if you see what I mean
> 
> ninsaga


 
There are horizontal plastic rails running on the internal surface of the system about 1 - 1.5 feet apart.

See [broken link removed]




randompunter said:


> Sas are all the systems only certified with an external leaf of block?


 
None of the systems to the best of my knowledge have Irish certification which means you will have trouble getting any regular architect to sign off on them. This is my experience based on discussions with 3 separate firms when I was in the market for an architect.

The polarwall cert is here if you are interested 
http://www.brecertification.co.uk/pdf/111-04.pdf#search="Polarwall BRE"
Its straight forward enough reading.

I can't remember anything from my reading of the Euromac one. Will look at it later.

My big worry is that I've heard stories of the finishing systems simply failing i.e. falling off the wall. 

On the other hand I spoke to Facade Systems at the self build show 2 weeks ago and the sales guy told me ( just after I saw him chatting with Rod from polarwall) that they are now prepared to give a 10 years guarantee on specific systems when used on ICF.


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## ninsaga (15 Sep 2006)

Not to side track ...but as I see it mentioned here, I think it important to ask. SAS, you are referring to BRE certification.

What is the diff between  EOTA, BBA & BRE certification & their recognition within Ireland? In terms of certification are they equal to, better or worse than say Homebond or Premier?

Diff systems have diff certifications..... a few as follows.
- Reward Walls, that they are BBA (with some refs to Ireland use)
- Beco Wallform (who are not operating in Ireland I think) are BRE certified
- Euromac are EOTA
- Styrostone are BBA
- couldn't find anything for Integrespec or Eco-form
ninsaga


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## randompunter (15 Sep 2006)

On the Certs I believe the British Certs are widely accepted in Ireland. I have been told by architects and engineers that they will sign off on BBA certs in the same way as they would with IAB certs.


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## bats (17 Sep 2006)

sas said:


> I don't like the fact that the fixing of slabs to the internals walls is a dab and slab effort in Euromac houses. I'd prefer the mechanical fixing that is possible with polarwall.
> 
> SAS


 

Hi Sas,

Thanks so much for your comments VERY HELPFUL for me.
One further question I have though, why do you prefer the mechanical fixing instead of dab and slab??

Cheers,  Bats


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## bats (17 Sep 2006)

bluebell said:


> Also Eurozone in Enniscorthy Co. Wexford.... My partner has just started to build a house using it. will post back his comments.


 
Hi Bluebell,

have just tried looking up Eurozone on the net.....not much luck 
Don't suppose you have their contact details??

Cheers, Bats


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## bluebell (17 Sep 2006)

Bats,


[broken link removed] or 053 9243333.


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## bats (17 Sep 2006)

Thanks Bluebell!


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## caro-line (18 Sep 2006)

Another provider of ICF here in Ireland are 
http://www.amvicireland.com/


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## ninsaga (18 Sep 2006)

caro-line said:


> Another provider of ICF here in Ireland are
> http://www.amvicireland.com/



What's your association with this company?

ninsaga


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## sas (18 Sep 2006)

ninsaga said:


> Not to side track ...but as I see it mentioned here, I think it important to ask. SAS, you are referring to BRE certification.
> 
> What is the diff between EOTA, BBA & BRE certification & their recognition within Ireland? In terms of certification are they equal to, better or worse than say Homebond or Premier?
> 
> ...


 
I have limited knowledge in this to be honest. But here's what I under the situation is.
Homebond and PremierGuarantee are insurance companies. They don't certify building technologies. However, given that they are in the business of making money and if they are
willing to provide cover for a specific build type then it must be a good sign. Euromac can be covered by premierguarantee for example although I have no idea how either works
in the case of a direct labour build for example.

The Irish equivalent to the BBA is the IAB ([broken link removed]). They (allegedly) have the expertise to test and certify all types of elements of the build.
The BRE is the British Research Establishment. I have no idea where they sit in relation to the BBA.
I don't know much about the EOTA.
This link to an article in the latest edition of constructireland answers some of your questions I think.
[broken link removed]






randompunter said:


> On the Certs I believe the British Certs are widely accepted in Ireland. I have been told by architects and engineers that they will sign off on BBA certs in the same way as they would with IAB certs.


I would have thought so but I've spoken to 3 firms (all architectural technicians\technologists) and none of them were interested in any cert other than the IAB. I put forward the case 
that the BBA has to be good enough\equivantlent but they didn't want to know. All 3 tried to convince me that the only way to go is regular block build so that was a bad indication I suppose. Eventually I picked one of them to get me 
through planning and I'll get someone else to sign off on the build if needs be. The funny thing was I mentioned poroton blocks(which do have an IAB cert) to 2 of 3 and
they didn't seem terribly happy to build with them either. So if it doesn't have an IAB cert run a mile from it and if it does then that doesn't mean its the way to go. .



bats said:


> One further question I have though, why do you prefer the mechanical fixing instead of dab and slab??


 
2 reasons, neither of which are rooted in anything other than opinion
1. I've spoke to several trades people about it and in general they just think dab and slab is "not a good job". That was when doing it to block walls.
2. My own personal opinion. EPS is not very hard. You are effectively gluing the slab onto something that I don't think is very sturdy to begin with. The combination
of the 2 maybe how it works. I'm sure aesthetically speaking it looks no different. Its just that given the option of dabbing or screwing I'll choose the latter when
I can. Again this is just my personal opinion. My chosen career is software development so that will give you an idea of the depth of my building knowledge  

As a complete aside, I spoke to Fernhill stone at the sustainable building show\building exhibition last friday and one of their sales guys mentioned that they are doing some testing with their "stone fronts" on ICF type builds. 
He noted that the ICF companies will tell you that all will be well but they are not willing to commit to that without testing it themselves. This is a positive sign I feel because as he put it, the polystyrene external
facing is becoming alot more common and they have to move with the times.


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## ninsaga (18 Sep 2006)

sas said:


> The Irish equivalent to the BBA is the IAB (www.irishagrementboard.com). They (allegedly) have the expertise to test and certify all types of elements of the build.
> The BRE is the British Research Establishment. I have no idea where they sit in relation to the BBA.
> I don't know much about the EOTA.
> This link to an article in the latest edition of constructireland answers some of your questions I think.
> [broken link removed]



...just read that article..... looks like a right can of worms there



sas said:


> I would have thought so but I've spoken to 3 firms (all architectural technicians\technologists) and none of them were interested in any cert other than the IAB. I put forward the case
> that the BBA has to be good enough\equivantlent but they didn't want to know. All 3 tried to convince me that the only way to go is regular block build so that was a bad indication I suppose. Eventually I picked one of them to get me
> through planning and I'll get someone else to sign off on the build if needs be. The funny thing was I mentioned poroton blocks(which do have an IAB cert) to 2 of 3 and
> they didn't seem terribly happy to build with them either. So if it doesn't have an IAB cert run a mile from it and if it does then that doesn't mean its the way to go. .



..... that's what I have found also...however I believe that alot of this is down to the fact that this is new to many og them & they just want to rely on what they know works. Its easy for them to cut/paste sections of their cad drawings for block built houses. With regard to poraton .. I checked that out also...it looks to be a good system but there are not to many builders around the place who are experienced with it. It is widely used throughout Europe - even in severely cold climates so it can't be that bad. 

ninsaga


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## clara26 (19 Sep 2006)

Sas you pretty much have hit the nail on the head when it comes to certification.

In recent times the Irish Agrement Board have decided that they will not simply rubber stamp a BBA certificate like they once did. This is because our building regulations while very similiar to the UK do differ on a number of issues.

The BRE only did the testing in the past but have resently begun to issue certifcates as well. The BBA and IAB do not recognise their certificates but will recognise their testing. Confused? It seems the BRE promises a faster turn around time on certs at a reduced cost. The problem is not all engineers/architects in the UK will be happy with just BRE certs and will insist on BBA.

The EOTA is a European certificate. If you are an Irish Company and wish to attain an EOTA cert you must contact your Agrement Board who will handle this application. They certify the system and them put an application to the other member states. Essentailly the applcaition is rubber stamped in each country. However this is a very lenghtly process.


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## clara26 (19 Sep 2006)

Sas,

Another reason screwing is better than dabbing is down to the movement of air and heat loss. When a wall is dabbed it is not tight against the wall/insulation. Therefore there is a possibility of air movement behind the slab. Where there is air movement there is a risk of thermal looping (hot air rising, pulling cold air to replace it) and heat loss.


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## randompunter (19 Sep 2006)

sas said:


> The Irish equivalent to the BBA is the IAB ([broken link removed]). They (allegedly) have the expertise to test and certify all types of elements of the build.
> The BRE is the British Research Establishment. I have no idea where they sit in relation to the BBA.
> I don't know much about the EOTA.
> This link to an article in the latest edition of constructireland answers some of your questions I think.
> [broken link removed]


 
Just Read that article and i'm more confused than ever now. Sounds like all these certificates are a bit of a money spinner so noone wants to let go of their influence. That 60 years durability seems to be a big issue on any tax break buildings which could prevent use of ICF.


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## sas (19 Sep 2006)

randompunter said:


> Just Read that article and i'm more confused than ever now.


 
Welcome to my world!. At least I'm only at the beginning of the planning stage so I've time to get even more confused.

Thats why I've been looking into the Kingspan TEK system and the poroton block system. They seem to be the only "alternative" building systems that have IAB certificates.


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## breathnach1 (4 Apr 2007)

Anyone know what happens if you ever want to extend in a ICF house will it crack and half a domino effect if you try to knock out a section of wall


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## craggel (7 May 2007)

Hello First post - I believe a crowd in Offaly called M2 Emmedue have IAB Certification. I know nothing about them or the quality of their product, but it looks interesting.
here is the link to their certification [broken link removed]


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## Jaid79 (11 May 2007)

Is the webber system for rendering very expensive? Also what about the ICF and the speed at which it can be erected?


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## NerdyNed (20 May 2009)

Hello to all 
I'm currently in the early stages of planning a self build (I'm a first timer), ICF technology has me interested.

SAS, I was just wondering if you went ahead with the ICF build? If not, what were the reasons for not using this technology?

This thread is a bit old now, so in the three years since this thread was started, have there been any changes with regards to the whole certification mess?

Any input from other members is also welcome.

Regards,
Ned


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## krissovo (20 May 2009)

Up to floor level and the ICF has just been delivered to site.  First floor should be up and poured by Saturday.  We went with reward but that was because we found a builder who was very experienced in ICF and some of the features of our home.  Went with ICF for air tightness, the solid feel to it and the speed of construction.


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## BarneyMc (20 May 2009)

What width are the walls Krissovo and what U value does it achieve?


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## krissovo (20 May 2009)

BarneyMc said:


> What width are the walls Krissovo and what U value does it achieve?



From the fact sheet_

 "Actual U-value of concrete & iForm: 0.25M2k – BBA Certified"

_The walls are 400 thick


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## galwaytt (21 May 2009)

krissovo said:


> From the fact sheet
> 
> _"Actual U-value of concrete & iForm: 0.25M2k – BBA Certified"_
> 
> The walls are 400 thick


 
I build SIP structures for a crust, and interestingly, a similar wall built from , 370mm thick (total, including external leaf) would have a u-value of 0.15.

As regards what's BRE vs BBA vs IAB, it's quite straightforward.

BRE and BBA are two UK entities, previously part of the Home Office, who offer testing and accreditation to manufacturers and constructors, of building products and systems.  Both are physically in the same place (Watford, UK - btdt ) and both do a wide range of physical testing on anything from a clip to an entire building, beam etc (huge test capabilities).

IAB, on the other don't do testing, and accredits systems.  Physical testing can be in the UK (most) or elsewhere, and results incorporated in the IAB cert.  Quite often that testing is still done.....at BRE/BBA !

The merits of all 3 certs are equal.   Insurers etc do not differentiate between them.

As for ICF, well like everything else, there's good and bad in everything, but the quality of the finished ICF product is far more influenced by site practices, site quality and, even the weather !  than a factory system.

We are currently fitting a SIP roof to an ICF system (3 buildings), and imho, the ICF has limitations in this area.


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## ninsaga (21 May 2009)

Just clicked out your like there galwaytt & got a warning that there is malware on that site.


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## sas (21 May 2009)

NerdyNed said:


> Hello to all
> I'm currently in the early stages of planning a self build (I'm a first timer), ICF technology has me interested.
> 
> SAS, I was just wondering if you went ahead with the ICF build? If not, what were the reasons for not using this technology?


 
I didn't go ahead with anything yet. Honestly. We decided to go the completely passive house route and the design we had wasn't up to it.
We got preliminary planning approval 2 weeks ago so we're getting there.

I'll be starting Aug\Sept all going well.

There is only 2 ICF systems in Ireland I'd be interested in and that's purely based on the technical spec of both. You want more insulation on the outside than the inside basically. So that leaves www.thermohouse.ie and [broken link removed]. This is not a recommendation.

The Wolf System is a passive house certified one with a u-value 0.1. I saw the Irish show house, fine job. Expensive system though.

Guide price for erecting ICF incidently (labour) will be €20 (+ VAT) per sq metre of wall measured through the openings.

I'm seriously looking at externally insulated masonry as my build option. Cheapest build option for passive level u-values by far based on my pricing.

You don't really want to be taking the advice of someone that got planning nearly 3 years ago and still hasn't decided how to build though...


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## galwaytt (22 May 2009)

ninsaga said:


> Just clicked out your like there galwaytt & got a warning that there is malware on that site.


 
...I just swept it with AVG and it's showing no issues, but I will get our site builder to double-check.......


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## NerdyNed (22 May 2009)

Thanks for the reply sas and everyone else.

 I'm still struggling to take in all the info and come to any kind of a decision, guess I'll just have to keep reading.

 Regards,
 Ned


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## galwaytt (25 May 2009)

... just read that Construct Ireland article online.   Interesting comment in there is Mr Balfe's comment that '_80% of  product failure is down to installation problems'_.  That much, I concur with.

It is also the reason that 'traditional' methods and materials will always struggle to meet their on-paper aspirations and targets.  The best factory-made product (of any kind) is useless, if quality of site work renders it's performance, void.


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