# New Gas Boiler and Controls upgrade



## dieter1 (12 Sep 2011)

so I'm confused.

I have gotten 3 quotes for a new gas boiler with controls upgrade.  Each price just keeps on getting higher.  

So far its

€3,000 - with ideal 50,000 btu boiler
€3,390 - with ideal 80,000 btu boiler
€3,500 - with bosch boiler(no idea how much output)

I got quotes a year ago (but didnt undertake) and remember that they were all under €3000.

The house is a three bed terraced with 8 rads.

Anyone shed any further light on this?  I know that the equipment itself is not coming to more than €1300 (being conservative from online pricing), so thats a fairly serious markup on labour my books.....


----------



## Fubar (12 Sep 2011)

dieter1

This seems a bit high. Is there a lot of additional pipework that is required for the new boiler. I am upgrading my gas boiler to sei standards, which is a 3 zone with 14 rads, and have got quotes of around €2200. There is only minimal additional work required re pipes etc. Get a detailed quote from each and compare the breakdowns. You are correct in thinking that a standard new boiler costs about €1300 to buy.


----------



## dieter1 (13 Sep 2011)

quick update, all the quotes are coming in at €3k or higher except for one guy who is at €2,400 with a quality boiler aswell.

He's a polish guy, seems like a good guy and is registered like all the rest.

The irish plumbers seem to be indifferent to wanting the business, they just throw you a number and hum and haw if you ask for detail.


----------



## gas_limerick (13 Sep 2011)

Hi Dieter,
     My advice would be go with the installer who you feel most comfortable with, also Bosch boilers are the most expensive boilers on the market (In my 30 years’ experience installing), and all gas boilers are expensive items.
Remember it will cost that amount again in the future  (or likely more when you are changing it), so a good job now could save you in the long run.

Kind Regards,

Sean Moore.


----------



## browtal (13 Sep 2011)

Dont forget to apply for the grant. We got grant for condenser gas Boiler and upgrade of controls. I cant remember how much we got but it was worth applying for. 
Good luck Browtal


----------



## dieter1 (14 Sep 2011)

interestingly, we had a final guy in yesterday.

He basically said to forget about the €560 grant.  Put in a lever instead of the controls, the lever never breaks down and you'll save yourself in the long run as the electronic controls have a habit of breaking down.

What do people think?

The interesting thing, was that he was from one of the biggest gas installers in the country!


----------



## gas_limerick (14 Sep 2011)

Hi Dieter,
     It is often more complicated than that, and any installer will tell you it is impossible to advise you specifically without actually seeing the job, as there are countless varying factors. If anybody tells you different it is simply not true.
It is defiantly the case in our experience that the grant is not viable for many installations. You need to decide if the net cost to you will make you that back and savings in the long term, taking in to consideration that heating systems and boilers (Like everything else) have a life span and that efficiencies can drop in the long term due to aging.


  Sean Moore.


----------



## browtal (14 Sep 2011)

I have a lever system to separate upstairs from downstairs. This serves us well. 
We got additional controls and they all work well but we only have them in two years
so far all is well. 
It is a great saving if you only want to heat rooms separately. Browtal


----------



## john martin (14 Sep 2011)

The problem with the SEI grant system is that they insist on new build specification on retrofit controls on older houses. This means a lot of disruption in the house running pipes and cables etc. The cost far outweighs the amount of the grant ( which was decreased recently) and indeed a simple lever valve  and roomstat can often be very effective and will achieve good energy savings.


----------



## Shane007 (16 Sep 2011)

john martin said:


> The problem with the SEI grant system is that they insist on new build specification on retrofit controls on older houses. This means a lot of disruption in the house running pipes and cables etc. The cost far outweighs the amount of the grant ( which was decreased recently) and indeed a simple lever valve and roomstat can often be very effective and will achieve good energy savings.


 
The SEAI is stipulating compliance with Building Regs for EXISTING builds and not new builds. Current building regulations stipulate that if you carry out a boiler replacement, you must zone the dwelling heat system separating it from the hot water circuit. Each zone must have time & temperature control. If the SEAI is paying a grant to subsidize part of the installation with taxpayers money, then it is only correct that the installation is done to meet the current Building Regulation standards.

Whether or not the client is seeking to avail of the grant, the system must be zoned to these current regulations. In practice, I agree, it is a very different story.

Time & temperature control is a very useful tool in reducing energy costs of the dwelling. For example, if the homeowner puts the heating on for heating only for 3 hours but in 45 minutes the thermostat is satisfied at 20C, the boiler is turned off. When not controlled, the boiler is put into short cycling mode which is when a boiler is at it's least efficiency. Equally, when zoned with lever valves, a valve is not normally installed to turn off the hot water circuit but only the central heating circuit. A small standard 30 gallon cylinder contains 136 litres of water to heat. An average radiator has approx 10 litres of water in it, so a 10 radiator system will have approx the same volume of water in it as the cylinder, (10 x 10 + pipe volume). If the heating is on for 4 hours a day, why does the cylinder need to be heated for this period too? It is like heating 2 houses. Many cylinders are uninsulated and loose their heat very quickly so they will take if from the boiler, especially if the have a 1" coil unbalanced. With time & temperature control, the cylidner can be set to turn off at 60C and set for 1/2 hour intervals when needed.
Also when lever valves are separating upstairs and downstairs, does the homeowner go around at differing times and open lever valves to heat upstairs only an hour before going to bed or do they leave it open at all times when downstairs is on?


----------



## jamessla (22 Sep 2011)

dieter1 said:


> quick update, all the quotes are coming in at €3k or higher except for one guy who is at €2,400 with a quality boiler aswell.
> 
> He's a polish guy, seems like a good guy and is registered like all the rest.
> 
> The irish plumbers seem to be indifferent to wanting the business, they just throw you a number and hum and haw if you ask for detail.



hey dieter1 do you have the number for the polish guy wouldnt mind giving him a ring thanks


----------



## DavyJones (22 Sep 2011)

dieter1 said:


> quick update, all the quotes are coming in at €3k  or higher except for one guy who is at €2,400 with a quality boiler  aswell.
> 
> He's a polish guy, seems like a good guy and is registered like all the rest.
> 
> The irish plumbers seem to be indifferent to wanting the business, they  just throw you a number and hum and haw if you ask for detail.




What exactly are you getting done? how many zones?

What type of boiler has the cheapest installer quoted for?

For the size of your home, you have no business with an 80,000 btu boiler.


€2115 plus VAT seems very low, even for the basic requirement.

Roughly, costs would/should include:

System  cleanser, this could be as low as €60 or as high as €350 depending on  the condition of your existing system. If it is in good condition a non  aggressive cleanser would be used. It could be added to the system water  a week before boiler change and simply drained out.

 If the  system is heavily fowled, it may need a power flush which normally takes  the best part of a day to complete. Either way it needs to be cleaned  before your new expensive heat exchanger (boiler) is fitted to system.

All manufactures insist on it or they may not honour their warranty. 

A mid range boiler will set you back €900 - €1000

A  two channel wired kit €150-€170, includes two motorised valves, two  channel time clock, room stat, cylinder stat and wiring centre.

Immersion time clock €35-€50

Automatic by-pass valve €30- €40

3 x TRV's, good quality ones will set you back €20, so €60 for 3.

RGII compliance cert, (installers cost to purchase) €5 plus postage cost back to RGII.

Inhibitor in system on completion €25


Have you 10sq earth's in hot press or at boiler? if not, this will have to be ran from fuse board. 

Then you have fittings, pipe work, cement mix, screws,clips, cable etc. Can't put on a price on that. 

Running time on job 2- 3 days.


----------



## Mark inLucan (2 Oct 2011)

Try onlinetradesmen.ie
Can you not get condensing boilers for 750euro!
Replacing a vokera which had unrepairable damage after 9 yrs! , the boiler was not serviced though but still....
Got quotes for 1500euro plus for boiler replacement


----------



## dieter1 (4 Oct 2011)

sorry for the delay, but we are very happy with the job that our polish builder did (so far).  We got a worcester boiler, it took 2 days full days.  I was very pleased with the work done, the quality of the fittings and finish.  No doubt in my mind, that the guy is certainly very talented.

Looking at the pricings from davyjones below, supplies come in at about €1400. So €1000 for the work done.  That seems fair to me for two days work for two people.

I was amazed how most of the irish suppliers came in at prices all over the 3k level.  Why?  I asked them to see if they could do anything on their price and none of them could.

It seems like its a closed shop tbh, a cartel of suppliers fixing their prices.


----------



## polikmu (17 Jan 2012)

Hi Dieter1
You couldn't pm with the details of the plumber you got, im in the middle of pricing for the same job. And yeh all the big companies seem to have the same price..


----------



## DublinJester (17 Feb 2012)

Dieter1  

I would also like the number of your Polish boiler installer. Thanks


----------



## bazzaplumber (22 Feb 2012)

2400 is a bit too cheap , you can be gauranteed  there was corners cut ,going rate arround 2800


----------



## Chris78 (13 Aug 2014)

*Polsih Gas Installer*

Hi Dieter,

I am in the very same situation. We would like to change from oil to Gas and have 2 bath rooms to renovate. Unable to find someone who takes it serious.
Would you mind giving the Phone number of the Polish Gas installer, please.

Its in Limerick isn't it?

Thanks a lot,
Christine


----------



## Leo (13 Aug 2014)

Please keep all posts seeking recommendations in the Recommend tradesmen and suppliers forum.


----------

