# Independent financial advice



## Newbe (15 Mar 2006)

Hello All

Can anyone recommend a good Independent financial adviser in the Dublin area?

Thanks
Nb


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## Dan The Man (1 Apr 2006)

This site and www.fool.co.uk will give you far more advice than any advisor will give, and it's impartial and free!


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## Satanta (1 Apr 2006)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=25606

Theres a link up on this thread that will provide a list of  based on whether you want advice for mortgage, general or life issues.

You can choose by location and get someone close to your own area.

Can't say I've any experience with any of them so can't suggest one, but at least it will let you see a few available and help in making your decision.


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## bambino (1 Apr 2006)

Most banks have independant financial advisers, I think AIB & BOI are tied agents but the others aren't so maybe try your own bank. It should be a free service aswell.


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## RainyDay (1 Apr 2006)

bambino said:
			
		

> Most banks have independant financial advisers, I think AIB & BOI are tied agents but the others aren't so maybe try your own bank. It should be a free service aswell.


The 'advisors' in the banks are neither independant nor advisors. They are salespersons.


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## doberden (2 Apr 2006)

It's very difficult to find an independant financial advisor because most of the money they make is commission from selling products..


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## bambino (2 Apr 2006)

Rainy day, I beg to differ. I know of at least 1 bank which has independant financial advisor, and yes they are Advisors...fully qualified and certified. Undergoing a huge number of hours outside work of continuous assesment and devolopment. Absolutly not sales people, because they are not dependant on the next customer walking in the door for a paycheque, the bank will pay them good month or bad month...and as for independant, Both Ulster Bank & NIB have no insurance companies tied to them so are both in a position to offer 100% independant advise. I also know that the advisers in BOI private banking offer indenpendant advise.  Unlike the average broker, bank paid advisers do not rely solely on commission for their income.


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## jpd (2 Apr 2006)

If you rely on the bank to pay your salary, then how can you be "independant" ?

Surely, the advice you give must be biased towards products from your employer ? Undoubtedly, if you continually advise your clients to purchase other banks products, you will either find yourself sacked or moved to a completely different job paying less!


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## CCOVICH (2 Apr 2006)

Ulster Bank and NIB act as agents for Irish Life and are paid significant sums by Irish Life for business introduced. I know this for a fact having worked in the industry.  Just because a bank doesn't offer a particular product, it doesn't mean that they don't have a vested interest in promoting someone else's product.

When we were taking out our mortgage (with Ulster Bank) we were offered (expensive) Irish Life life assurance by the Ulster Bank advisor. We obviously didn't have to take it, but we weren't shown any more options.

Why would a bank offer independent advice on products that it sells (pensions, insurances, mortgages, investments)?  Private banking is a different matter,  but is purely for the realm of the high net worth individual, who I suspect would not be relying on AAM for the name of a financial advisor.

Bambino-please clarify what these 'independent' advisors who work for the banks actually advise on and who they advise?  Is there any info on the websites of the banks in question on these 'indepdent' advisors?  What is there official status?  Are they registered with IFSRA as tied agents, multi-agency intermendiaries or authorised advisors?


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## bambino (2 Apr 2006)

NIB branch staff, do indeed introduce business to Irish Life, but to my knowledge this thread was bout financial advisers not branch staff??? There are usually a team of financial advisers which customers or non-customers alike can request an appointment with, they will go through all the different companies in-order to find the best deal, be it relating to pensions, life cover, investment options etc. Again because I happen to Bank with NIB I know more about their offering than the other banks so therefore can only give accurate info on that institution. The advisers are Mulit-agency intermediaries. There are 2 companies (you'll excuse me for not knowing the names) that they don't deal with and therefore have this title.  The reason NIB chose Irish life as the company for branch staff to deal with was they offer a price match...ie find the same cover for less and we'll match the quote...this is done through a service called adviser plus, a system brokers use to obtain qoutes for different levels of life cover, not because they pay the most commission. Infact all the companies pay a very similar amount of commission. usually 90% of the 1st yrs premium, the client must keep the policy for at least 1 yr inorder for the adviser to get the comission.

If you object to using Irish life, the branch staff in NIB can infact arrange cover for you with any other company, this is usually by way of using the finanial planning manager (the qualified financial advisers employed by NIB) The financial planning managers (FPM's) do not advise on mortgage products and I know of situations where their customers have been referred directly to another institution (eg. BOI for the lifetime mortgage) as they simply don't deal with mortgages, they will however set up the pension plan for a pension backed mortgage with NIB branch - the pension could be with any company.

I must add that yes NIB & Ulster banks do act as agents for Irish Life ad yes they are paid alot of money (as I said 90% 1st yrs premiums of 3%ish for lump sum investment) by Irish life for this, but they also act as agents for Hibernian, Eagle star, Caladonian, Friends first, I could go on but I think you get my drift. And also the authorised advisers are in exactly the same position, they are also paid comission but they rely soley on it for income.

So to answer your question...these Independant Financial Advisers advise on: Pensions, investments, insurance (not car or home). They advise either existing customers of the particular financial institution or non-customers, ie. people who have requested advise. Haven't gone as far as looking up the websites for details, but if you walked into a branch they'd refer you to the appropriate peson. 

And in relation to websites, afaik, NIB were bought last yr and have not really changed much of the detail on the website because it is due to be re-vamped for the re-launch at easter.

I may seem very pro-bank, but infact I've been down the broker route before and found at least with my bank I knew what I was getting, Brokers gave me the illusion that I was getting options from all the lenders for my mortgage only for me to apply to my own bank and be told they have absolutly no dealings with brokers and had the cheapest rates on offer at the time (I'm on the tracker with a margin of 0.79%) my broker told me the cheapest tracker available was Ulster Bank at margin of 0.85%.

HTH


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## CCOVICH (2 Apr 2006)

Fair enough-but none of this constititutes truely independent financial advice. This is only available from an Authorised Advisor who is obliged to advise on all products available in the market.

Brokers giving incorrect advice is another matter entirely-let's not cloud the issue, besides mortgage brokers are not subject to the same obligations as those imposed on advisors who deal with savings, pensions and investments.

With regard to qualifications-pretty much anyone selling/advisong will have to become QFA qualified within around 2 years of starting in work sales/investment advice. This qualifiication does not infer independence in any way, in fact it should be seen as the bare minimum when seeking financial advice on savings, investments and pensions etc.

To clarify, not all Authorised Advisors rely on commission. Most will demand a fee for a consultation, but I don't dispute the fact that they too earn commission on introduction of business to financial institutions. But at least they are obliged to offer you more options than a multi-agency intermediary.

The bottom line (for me) is this:  don't go to NIB (or any other bank) for independent financial advice. Be espcially wary if it is 'free'-there really is no such thing. Any financial advisor working for a bank is under pressure to make a sale of some sort (either with of their own products or that of an institution with which they have a relationship)-otherwise what good are they doing the bank?

The culture that has existed in NIB would lead me to be wary of taking financial advice from any of their advisors/salespersons to be honest.

For anyone who is interested, this topic has been discussed on AAM in the past, and there are some interesting contributions 
here
here
here
and here.

If you read between the lines, you will see that the only way to get truely independent and impartial advice is to pay a flat fee. Not many seem willing to do this.

Describing anyone who works for NIB (or any other bank) as 'independent' is a misleading and inaccurate statement and should be taken as such.


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## bambino (2 Apr 2006)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> The culture that has existed in NIB would lead me to be wary of taking financial advice from any of their advisors/salespersons to be honest.


 
Knowing the bank as well as i do I'm very sure the current staff (none of whom were involved in any of the bad dealings to which you refer) would take great offence by your comments.  I am well aware that you are yourself involved in the financial sector but would wonder how well you know individual institutions if you see fit to make such comments on a financial institution which has current compliance well in excess of the required minimum. You can be quite assured that the current staff are paying for the sins for their predessors by having to be so much more compliant than any other institution.

Th culture to which you refer is well and truely dead and for you to imply other wise is not exactly very fair.


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## CCOVICH (2 Apr 2006)

My comment is based on my own opinion, to which I am perfectly entitled.  Rest assured that it is not my intention to cause offence to any current NIB staff.  It should be noted that many of those reponsible for what what I am referring to now work for other major financial instutions.


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## bambino (2 Apr 2006)

and many of whom are probably out there under the guise of authorised advisers!


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## CCOVICH (2 Apr 2006)

bambino said:
			
		

> and many of whom are probably out there under the guise of an authorised advisers!



Can you actually offer facts to support this statement? If not I would like you to withdraw it.


In case anyone is wondering, I am neither an authorised advisor, multi-agency intermediary, tied agant or broker, and have no vested interest in promoting advice of any source of advice over another.  All opinons expressed are my own.


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## bambino (2 Apr 2006)

I am also not an adviser etc. and have no vested interest other than to say I find the comments made to be very underhanded and you definatley seem to have an issue of some form with the advisers in banks, either that or you don't actually know how they really work. And Although I was about to withdraw my quoted statement, it was also a statement of opinion and I do not feel the need to do so. I will however look up the copy of the high court report I have and search the names in same to find out exactly where these people are operating, could take a while.


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## CCOVICH (2 Apr 2006)

The statement that 



			
				bambino said:
			
		

> and many of whom are probably out there under the guise of authorised advisers!



is either fact or fiction, it can't be an opinion, i.e. either they are acting as authorised advisors or they are not.  That's why I asked for it to be withdrawn, unless you can verify it.

The only issue I have with financial advisors that are employed by banks is that they are not 'independent' as you have claimed they are.  That's all.  You say that my comments are 'underhanded', could you explain how? 



> Marked by or done in a deceptive, secret, or sly manner; dishonest and sneaky.



(Taken from www.dictionary.com)

I haven't made one dishonest comment in this thread.  The use of the wod 'independent' in connection with financial advisors employed by banks is misleading and inaccurate.  Not quite dishonest, if you truely believe that is the case.  But definitely wrong.


As to saying I don't know how they work-well I'll lay my cards on the table.  I spent time working for a life company here in Ireland in Compliance/Audit.  I undertook three separate reviews of various aspects of their sales processes while I was there.  

So I know perfectly well how the financial advisors employed by financial institutions work. I have no problem with them-but they are not independent, and for you to claim otherwise as you have done in this thread, is nonsense.

In a strange cocidence, Brian Carey (Business Editor of the Sunday Times) has some interesting things to say on the subject of financial advice offered by banks in today's edition.


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## RainyDay (3 Apr 2006)

bambino said:
			
		

> Unlike the average broker, bank paid advisers do not rely solely on commission for their income.


But commission does form part of their income - right? A significant part - right? And how is their bonus calculated?


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## bambino (3 Apr 2006)

It is a much smaller precentage...the basic salary with a bank is much higher than with a broker because the commission structure isn't as good. I do know this for a fact, but do not currently have exact figures to back up. will research and come back to you. 

I'm not for 1 second saying that all bank employed fnalcial advisers are perfect, but they are nowhere as bad as you are both making them out to be, some can infact offer some excellent, impartial advise which is not based in any way on the amount of commission pai by a particular company. I picked NIB as a good example as they do not have an insurnace company tied to them, they can and do deal with any number of companies. 


Bonuses are actually calculated not on amount of commission earned through an individual company, but by reaching sales targets as per any financial adviser, independant or not.  And as I said works it out precentage wise of the amount of salary that bonus/commission makes up is significantly less than that of any brokerage.


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## RainyDay (3 Apr 2006)

So what percentage of their total income does the bonus/commission make up?


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## CCOVICH (4 Apr 2006)

bambino said:
			
		

> I'm not for 1 second saying that all bank employed fnalcial advisers are perfect, but they are nowhere as bad as you are both making them out to be, some can infact offer some excellent, impartial advise which is not based in any way on the amount of commission pai by a particular company. I picked NIB as a good example as they do not have an insurnace company tied to them, they can and do deal with any number of companies.


 
Don't misquote me. Where did I say they are bad? Saying they are not independent is not the same as saying they are 'bad'. The thread is about independent financial advice, not multi agency intermediaries. 

I have no opinion either way on NIB as a multi-agency intermediary (aside from my earlier comment), but when dealing with *anyone* who works on a commission basis, I would assume that they will push whatever product/provider that will earn them the most commission (otherwise they won't last very long in their job).

Any chance you picked NIB as an example because you have some connection with them, or perhaps their parent, Den Danske?


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## jpd (4 Apr 2006)

If 
1) I was a manager in a bank or other financial institution and 
2) I had hired someone to work as an "independant" financial adviser and
3) he/she consistently ignored our products and proposed products from competing financial institutions

then one of 3 things would happen

1) I would get him to stop doing this and to propose our products mainly (or better still only) or
2) I would get rid of him or
3) I would be fired

I think it's pretty clear what would happen !


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## ClubMan (4 Apr 2006)

Is [broken link removed] the relevant info about the _NIB _independent financial advice service? Perhaps it *is *the case that where _NIB _don't themselves directly provide a particular product (e.g. life assurance, pensions etc.) and they are not tied agents of any particular provider of such products then their in-house advisors will provide independent advice? However if it comes to products that _NIB _*do *provide (e.g. savings/current account banking etc.) then I would be surprised if the advisors recommended other providers' products.


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## CCOVICH (4 Apr 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Is [broken link removed] the relevant info about the _NIB _independent financial advice service? Perhaps it *is *the case that where _NIB _don't themselves directly provide a particular product (e.g. life assurance, pensions etc.) and they are not tied agents of any particular provider of such products then their in-house advisors will provide independent advice? However if it comes to products that _NIB _*do *provide (e.g. savings/current account banking etc.) then I would be surprised if the advisors recommended other providers' products.


 
They are not tied agents, fair enough. They are a multi-agency intermediary. Their status means that they can only advise on products that they have an agency to sell. Obviously if they don't sell their own assurance and pension products, they cannot advise you to buy them. But that doesn't mean they are independent in this regard-which is what the OP was looking for in the first place.

From the IFSRA definition:



> *MULTI-AGENCY INTERMEDIARY*
> A Multi-Agency Intermediary is a generic term that describes investment business firms that may provide the following services;
> 
> *receiving orders in investment instruments and transmitting those orders to product producers from whom it holds an appointment in writing, and *
> ...


 
The only real interest I have in this discussion is to make sure that people don't believe that NIB provide independent advice, which is the impression that has been created by _bambino_.

When I look at the IFSRA S.31 register (list of AAs, Multi-Agency interemediaries etc.), I don't actually see NIB registered as a Multi-Agancy Intermediary, so I presume that is in the individual advisors who are registered as such


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## ClubMan (4 Apr 2006)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> They are not tied agents, fair enough. They are a multi-agency intermediary. Their status means that they can only advise on products that they have an agency to sell. Obviously if they don't sell their own assurance and pension products, they cannot advise you to buy them. But that doesn't mean they are independent in this regard-which is what the OP was looking for in the first place.


Does anybody know precisely what companies the _NIB MAIs _deal with/don't deal with?


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## CCOVICH (4 Apr 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Does anybody know precisely what companies the _NIB MAIs _deal with/don't deal with?


 
The IFSRA list is useful in that it tells you what providers each AA/MAI holds an agancy with, but as NIB are not included (at least I can't see them), I can't say.  You would need to know the names of the MAIs employed by NIB to answer that question.


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## bambino (4 Apr 2006)

To answer your query, my connection with NIB is that I hold my accounts there. Have done for a very long time. My employer also banks there. I have built up an excellent relationship with the staff in my local branch aswell as with the business bank and financial advisers. I have an excellent knowledge of financial servies due to the fact I am qfa qualified and am well aware of the difference between AA and MAI. 
To answer the question about what companies NIB don't deal with, I'll get the full list, I have it on a TOBL which I'm sure is filed in work.
In realtion to the commision query, as I previously stated, in general the financial companies such as Irish life, eagle star, friends first pay the same amt of commission for similar products. If you take a product such as Life cover, possibly with SIC, the adviser can not advise you to go  with 1 company simply because they pay more commission than another company, to suggest otherwise is absolutly absurd. They will of course suggest the cheapest as long as they can stand by the claims record etc of that company, at the end of the day the customer will decide which company to use.
To answer the query about savings/current a/c's. these are bank products not dealt with by financial advisers who deal with regulated products. They are sold by unqualified branch staff. These members of staff do not hold the necessary qualification to advise on prducts belonging to another bank.
To answer about selling priducts of another bank: NIB are still paid commission by BOI, AIB etc and therefore the bank has no difficulty with advising on these products as long as it is on the interest of the customer and as I previously stated the customer will make the decision not the adviser.


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## CCOVICH (4 Apr 2006)

Multi Agency Intermediaries employed by NIB are not independent.  That's all I want to clarify.

bambino-does your connection with NIB also extend to the fact that you are perhaps employed by their parent company, Den Danske?


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## bambino (5 Apr 2006)

no!


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