# RaboDirect - Investment Service Terminates on 24/4/17



## Deathknell (23 Nov 2016)

Just logged in to see this notification:


Investment Account Withdrawal Information:
Following a review of the RaboDirect business in Ireland a decision has been made to withdraw the RaboDirect Investment Account on 24th April 2017.

Anyone know why?


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## jpd (23 Nov 2016)

No but I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't profitable - fees and commission income didn't cover cost of offices, staff, etc


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## Delboy (23 Nov 2016)

Thats annoying. I had a few quid bobbing along since the mid noughties and was going to leave it for many more years to come.


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## Deathknell (23 Nov 2016)

Yeah. It is annoying. I called them, sounds like jpd's theory is correct - the official word is that they are concentrating on savings. Well at 1%, wtf is the point really. They are defaulting investments fund management to Cantor Fitzgerald. If you dont sell, the funds will roll over on the same T&Cs for a year after which CF fees apply. CF have 3500 funds and offer a full financial service package. Dont know anything else about them.


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## Delboy (23 Nov 2016)

It was the online facilty at Rabo that enticed me + the low fees.
I'll prob sell up come April...hopefully the Asian stock markets don't go into tailspin on the news that I intend to cash out!!!


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## Lightning (23 Nov 2016)

The gradual wind-down of RaboBank Ireland continues ... 
- RaboBank firstly made big cuts to ACCBank. 
- Then RaboBank shut ACCBank down. 
- RaboBank exited their RaboDirect personal loan product in Ireland. 
- RaboBank have virtually exited the term deposit market. A lot of their rates are zero. 
- RaboBank have cut their instant access and notice account rates to close to zero. Not so long ago, Rabo aggressively advertised these products in newspapers, radio and billboards. Marketing is not conducted to any significant extent anymore. 
- Now RaboBank have closed their Investment Account products. 

What's next? Will RaboDirect shut down in Ireland? 

More details on the closure are now on the RaboDirect website [broken link removed].


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## Lightning (23 Nov 2016)

More from The Irish Times here. 5,400 people effected.


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## gnf_ireland (23 Nov 2016)

Delboy said:


> It was the online facilty at Rabo that enticed me + the low fees.



Any recommendations on a solid alternative to Rabo here?


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## Boyd (23 Nov 2016)

gnf_ireland said:


> Any recommendations on a solid alternative to Rabo here?


Degiro + ETFs


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## MrEarl (24 Nov 2016)

Letter arrived in the post this morning.

Based on a previous experience, I won't be in any hurry to deal with Cantor Fitz. - while I know things have moved on for them from 5-8 years ago, once bitten and all that....



CiaranT said:


> ....Will RaboDirect shut down in Ireland?....



Thats my bet, unfortunitely.

No investment in a Rabodirect phone app, no progress on product development, cuts cuts cuts... I'm expecting no more than their IFSC / Corporate Banking entity to remain.


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## irish_investr (24 Nov 2016)

Very disappointing!! But understandable. 
Unfortunately, Ireland has a booming fund industry, with everyone in Europe benefiting from it - except the Irish.
Well, at least Rabo tried. Now, there is no viable way for Irish investors to directly invest in funds.


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## sunnydonkey (24 Nov 2016)

irish_investr said:


> Very disappointing!! But understandable.
> Unfortunately, Ireland has a booming fund industry, with everyone in Europe benefiting from it - except the Irish.
> .



Not sure that everybody in Europe benefits. One of the reasons funds come here because of lax regulation (non obligatory guidelines) and the ability to make charges (eg performance fees on virtual non-performance) that would be outlawed in their home countries.


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## dub_nerd (24 Nov 2016)

CiaranT said:


> What's next? Will RaboDirect shut down in Ireland?


This would cause me a serious problem, as Rabo are the only bank I trust with deposits considerably bigger than the government guaranteed amounts. Does anyone have any recommendations for a safe haven for deposits in the absence of Rabo if it were to come to that?


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## MrEarl (25 Nov 2016)

Apart from holding emergency cash, there is no good reason for retaining cash on deposit these days.  I appreciate that people might want a "risk free" home for their savings, but even the Banks are not truely risk free and there is a cost (in real terms) of holding money on deposit.


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## dub_nerd (25 Nov 2016)

Are you saying that everyone should be 100% (or some very large percentage) in equities as a _less_ risky alternative to deposits?


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## MrEarl (27 Nov 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> Are you saying that everyone should be 100% (or some very large percentage) in equities as a _less_ risky alternative to deposits?



Absolutely not and how you came to that conclusion is beyond me....either your need your eyes tested, or you need to reconsider how to strike up a good debate


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## dub_nerd (28 Nov 2016)

MrEarl said:


> Absolutely not and how you came to that conclusion is beyond me......


It was a question, not a conclusion. (The hint was in the question mark).


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## dub_nerd (28 Nov 2016)

Does anyone else have any recommendations for a safe haven for deposits in the absence of Rabo if it were to come to that? Rabo are the only bank I trust with deposits considerably bigger than the government guaranteed amounts.


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## rangerscym (1 Dec 2016)

Deathknell said:


> Yeah. It is annoying. I called them, sounds like jpd's theory is correct - the official word is that they are concentrating on savings. Well at 1%, wtf is the point really. They are defaulting investments fund management to Cantor Fitzgerald. If you dont sell, the funds will roll over on the same T&Cs for a year after which CF fees apply. CF have 3500 funds and offer a full financial service package. Dont know anything else about them.


Cantor don't offer a regular investment facility which is really disappointing - I have questioned both Rabos due diligence and the central banks process here, neither appear to have given a damn in either seeking or ensuring a suitable alternative replacement service is secured.  Stockbroking accounts are not  a comparable alternative replacement.


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## Boyd (1 Dec 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> Does anyone else have any recommendations for a safe haven for deposits in the absence of Rabo if it were to come to that? Rabo are the only bank I trust with deposits considerably bigger than the government guaranteed amounts.


Spread it across multiple 100K limit banks?


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## dub_nerd (1 Dec 2016)

username123 said:


> Spread it across multiple 100K limit banks?


There aren't enough of them (only four or so, I think?). Let's pretend one had a sum bigger than six figures and Rabo had left the market, where would you put it?


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## Boyd (1 Dec 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> There aren't enough of them (only four or so, I think?). Let's pretend one had a sum bigger than six figures and Rabo had left the market, where would you put it?


Im not sure to be honest. Mo' money mo' problems!


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## MrEarl (2 Dec 2016)

rangerscym said:


> ....Stockbroking accounts are not  a comparable alternative replacement.



While I'm inclined to agree, what is a comparable alternative replacement - Life Co's with regular long term investment based savings plans ?


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## MrEarl (2 Dec 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> There aren't enough of them (only four or so, I think?). Let's pretend one had a sum bigger than six figures and Rabo had left the market, where would you put it?



On the basis that your looking for "risk free" with capital protection more important than getting a return, then I'd be putting part of the funds into Government Bonds (possibly more than just Irish debt btw)


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## irish_investr (2 Dec 2016)

prize bonds


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## rangerscym (4 Dec 2016)

MrEarl said:


> While I'm inclined to agree, what is a comparable alternative replacement - Life Co's with regular long term investment based savings plans ?


A comparable alternative would be an investment platform offering direct access to investments in external investments.  Regular premium life policies are certainly not directly comparable and will prove significantly more expensive (we currently only invest in index trackers).  I'm currently exploring the options with both IG and Cantor Fitzgerlard and will post the outcome.


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## Duke of Marmalade (4 Dec 2016)

irish_investr said:


> prize bonds


don't knock it.  85bp tax free and safer than any bank and yes IMHO much safer than government bonds
Max holding 500k joint


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## Deathknell (8 Dec 2016)

Rangerscym - Keep us posted. I was going to let CF just take over the account per the Rabo instructions but the lack of a regular investor option is dissapointing


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## gnf_ireland (5 Jan 2017)

@rangerscym I am also interested to hear any updates you have on suitable alternatives. Say the scenario where someone wanted to drip feed 250 euro a month into investments similar to what Rabo or Quinn offered previously...


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## DublinD (14 Jan 2017)

Long time poster - but old account dead! Looking to cash in my Rabo funds before the handover to CF. Hoping to wait a few months yet for a few to break even as I know losses can't be used against profits (like CGT).

What is the approach for selling multiple funds and filling in the section 319/Form 11?

If anybody has a layman's guide it would be great - Rabo aren't so clear and the revenue form isn't so simple, especially for selling multiple funds 

Am I correct that once I send in details, Revenue will send me how much I owe?


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## dub_nerd (15 Jan 2017)

DublinD said:


> What is the approach for selling multiple funds and filling in the section 319/Form 11?
> 
> If anybody has a layman's guide it would be great - Rabo aren't so clear and the revenue form isn't so simple, especially for selling multiple funds
> 
> Am I correct that once I send in details, Revenue will send me how much I owe?


It's a long time since I cashed in a Rabo investment (2009) and I don't have a copy of the Form 11 to hand, so I'm going from memory and can't vouch for the complete accuracy of the following. Rabo investments are taxed as UCITS. On looking at the online Form 11 for 2016 (not much different from previous years) the appropriate section is the "Irish Other Income" section. It's in the Investment Undertakings subsection, "_Gain on deemed disposal (S.739E(1)(bii)), Taxable at 41%_". If you'd like to see the Revenue guidance notes on the relevant legislation it is in [broken link removed] (or Google for "revenue S.739E"), and the relevant piece is the last row of the Disposal column of Table 1b on page 26.

Just fill in the amount of gains, and the address of each investment undertaking which should be available from the prospectuses on the Rabodirect site which you would probably have looked at when you signed up.

Yes, if you don't remit the tax with the return, I imagine Revenue will bill you fairly promptly.

EDIT: removed mention of PRSI.


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## Gordon Gekko (15 Jan 2017)

That's incorrect; there is no PRSI or USC in respect of income or gains on such investments.


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## DublinD (15 Jan 2017)

Cheers, I bought a batch in 2009,2010,2011 and 2012 (not reg saver)  I was going to just lump all the profit together and quote that single figure plus address of each fund. Not talking huge cash here (12k in the funds). The dates might not fully fit to the form but the best I can see.

Guess cash them out and at least I have time to work out the form!!

Last point-should I have been reporting purchases each year? rather than only when selling? (I've never sent anything to Revenue before)


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## dub_nerd (15 Jan 2017)

I don't believe you have to report purchases. Either way I don't think Revenue will care. The space on the Form 11 for reporting purchases of normal equities is presumably to have some sort of correlation with alleged losses carried forward -- which you can't do with UCITS. Even in the case of equities, other threads on here suggest Revenue don't care.


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## bstop (18 Jan 2017)

Keytrade Bank is a good alternative. They offer most of the Rabo funds at very good rates.


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## Steven Barrett (22 Jan 2017)

I've been looking into this for a client of mine. A lot of the funds she had invested in were very expensive (1.5% - 2% AMC). Rabo are waiving their exit fee of 0.75% and Cantor has promised to keep the amc at .75% for the first 12 months. Their standard AMC is 1%, so there will be an increase in fees after 12 months. 

The issue for a lot of Rabo clients is triggering a tax liability if they cash in and move elsewhere. If you are happy with your funds with them, you can do an in specie transfer to another provider. If you are paying over the odds for a fund, it may be better to pay tax on gains now and start over in a cheaper fund. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## rangerscym (14 Feb 2017)

Do keytrade sell into Ireland though?


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## rangerscym (14 Feb 2017)

We have decided to transfer our own investments to Cantor however I don't know what we will do with the regular monthly investment at this point. We have set up a bare trust to hold the existing investments in our sons name with Cantor.  He held a couple of funds which have bounced back recently and have a good bit of potential upside so we want to hold on to them just now.    For all new monies in our sons name we have taken out a childrens policy with Zurich Life making use of the annual gift allowance.  This policy has been assigned to our son to make sure the monies are held outside of our estates.


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## rangerscym (30 May 2017)

I thankfully salvaged my funds from Cantor but not before I experienced a horrendous level of customer service, glad we got out.  How the Central Bank allowed Rabo to transfer its investment offering to this crowd is beyond me, the service and investment offering is from the dark ages.  I transferred my sons account to a child plan with Zurich.  It's quite a restrictive investment as the policy is assigned to the child from the outset and the parents can no longer control the fund choice so a goo broad fund choice is required.  I'm also going through the process of opening an account with Key Trade Bank - does anyone have any expereince of this company good or bad?


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## rangerscym (22 Oct 2017)

Keytrade Bank just decline the application without any explanation even though you have satisfied all of their due diligence requirements.


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