# "Open Space" attached to our home.



## Corrie (6 Dec 2008)

Hi..Hoping for some enlightenment from all aspiring legal eagles. My husband and I purchased a 1/4 acre site directly attached to our home 27 years ago. We were informed at the time of purchase that the builder had an excess of Open Space to donate to the Council and was very happy and within his rights to sell this site to us. We duly paid the asking price and were issued with the appropriate deeds of ownership. Over the years, the Council,following protests by 3 neighbours and one council official (who took it as a personal affront that we had managed to puchase it at all)were unwilling to permit the building of a garage or even the joining of part of it to our back garden. Our last attempt to seek permission for its partial inclusion in our back garden was 12 years ago. We have maintained it immaculately for the past 27years, and received many compliments from neighbours regarding its condition. However, as we live in an open plan estate it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep undesirables from using it for anti social gatherings. Is there any way that we can have it re-titled as a "Garden" rather than "Open Space"which might give us more control over what is our own property after all?...Looking forward to hearing your views...Corrie


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## Complainer (6 Dec 2008)

What is meant by 'inclusion in our back garden'? Does this involve knocking down walls or what?


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## nuac (6 Dec 2008)

Is fencing prohibited by a covenant in your deeds?

If not putting a fence around this space would be exempt development as long as the fence or wall is under the height set out in regulations - from memory about 5 feet or so.

Cannot understand how a council official could have strong personal views on the matter, unless he is a neighbour also.   In fairness most officials have more to concern them


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## Corrie (6 Dec 2008)

Hi All. The purchased space attached to the side of our house is only divided by the wall enclosing our back garden. We are an end house. The front garden has no fences or walls. The estate is Open Plan which restricts walls/fences enclosing the property.We were hoping to knock the wall dividing the Open Space and our back garden and enclose some of the purchased land to make our back garden bigger. Thankfully the council official is now retired but was noted for his eccentricity to say the least.


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## PaddyBloggit (6 Dec 2008)

What about going to speak with the council face to face?
Failing that .... your local Councillor or TD may be worth a visit.

As an aside you should check your insurance liability should anything happen on the ground you refer to.


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## Corrie (6 Dec 2008)

Yes..we have done all of that over the years. The TDs etc were all astounded at the vehemence of said council official and hit stone walls each time. We have made sure that we are covered re insurance/public liability. The space is recognised as ours by all neighbours but its the "troublesome" types that seem to be taking to congregating on it that worries me now. Basically, does anyone know if 27 years ownership/care gives an owner the same rights as those who manage to achieve outright ownership and control with adverse possession, say?


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## csirl (8 Dec 2008)

You may have to go back to the original planning permission for the estate as well as the development plan to see what is permitted on the open space. The key issue is whether the planning permission allows this land to be "back garden" and therefore enclosed or "front/side garden" and therefore left open plan.


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## Padraigb (8 Dec 2008)

My concern would be that in 27 years of ownership you have not managed to restrict general access to the land. You might have ceded a public right of way. 

I don't think this is a matter for lay advisers. I think that even a lawyer specialising in questions of this nature would hesitate to take a position on this one. Can you afford a court action -- both the money and the possible discomfort you might experience with neighbours?


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## Corrie (8 Dec 2008)

Hi..Thanks Guys..Public access has been avoided over the years because all the neighbours know it belongs to us and have respected that..it is the odd gang that have taken to walking through the area and are congregating on any large site that is causing our concern. The original documentation had it labelled "open Space" but the solicitor handling the sale at the time said it could be re-labelled "Garden " after a few years. We havent found that to be the case though.We would not be in a position to take court action due to lack of funds. The neighbours would not really be a problem as we would not be treading an any toes, as the "Green" aspect of it would not change. We are not considering building on it as we like the open aspect but would just prefer if we could hedge it in and restrict the unwelcome visitors.


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## Stifster (8 Dec 2008)

Why don't you fence it off and see what happens. The worst is a a letter from the Council telling you to take it down. 

Without having a look at the title deeds I wouldn't take a position on it as padraig said. However I fail to understand how you can't build on your own property. Public open space is public open space usually owned by the council or the mangement company not any of the owners.


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## Corrie (16 Dec 2008)

Thanks for all the advice guys..I may have to take it to a TD as suggested...it really is complicated..we seem to have managed to do the impossible i.e buy "open space" ......if only to maintain it for public view.


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## DavyJones (16 Dec 2008)

Stifster said:


> Why don't you fence it off and see what happens. The worst is a a letter from the Council telling you to take it down.
> 
> .




Thats exactly what I would do.

 However I don't know much about planning law and particularly your estate.

 After all this time, I would build a fence/wall and see what happens. Let them give you a reason to pull it down as opposed to you trying to  give them a reason to put it up in the first place. 

The worst that will happen is that you are legally ordered to remove it.


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