# Nursing home subvention. Fair deal



## Tormented (4 Feb 2009)

Last month I applied for a nursing home subvention for our mother, we are awaiting an update on the application.

will the application be considered under the new fair deal system whereby the HSE will only take 15% of our mothers estate.

Her estate including home is less than 150000, with no savings.

Doctors all say she needs to be in full time care and can no longer be looked after at home,what are our chances of receiving subvention under the fair deal scheme at this stage.


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## Threadser (19 Feb 2009)

I am in the same polition as yourself in that I applied for subvention on behalf of my mother recently.  The system is very unfair at the moment and despite Mary Harney's attempt to reform it, change is now unlikely to happen.  The Fair Deal scheme is a much fairer system and is due to be operative from April this year but sources within the HSE have told me that this is now unlikely due to the financial crises.  Under the existing scheme the value of your mother's house is taken as weekly income for her.  This is most unfair, especially when you are allowed nothing for the maintenace and upkeep of the house once it becomes vacant.


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## gInvestor (22 Feb 2009)

Its been discussed in the dail at the moment according to my local councillor and it was included as part of the budget for 2009.. but since they've changed almost everything that was in the orginal budget, anything can happen.. 

Which HSE are you applying for subvention from ? At the moment, the HSE West supplies a max subvention of 180 whereas the south is approx 420 and the east is >600. According to those handing these out, its because costs are higher in dublin, but when it came to action about answering these questions, we got the fair deal scheme which has been promised to everyone on subvention for the past 3 years and becuase of this, the subvention costs wont be increased (although the cost of the nursing home will)..believe what you will but there must be brown envelopes flyin about the east these days..


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## Threadser (22 Feb 2009)

It is true that each HSE region has an entirely different system of allocating subvention and the amounted allocated to you depends on what part of the country you live in.  This is why the existing system is so unfair and why reform was so drastically needed.  In our case my mother was refused subvention due to excess means but because she was hospitalised following a hip fracture, she was discharged to the nursing home under the "clinical initiative scheme" for delayed discharge and the HSE will pay circa 300 euro per week towards the cost of her car until a public bed becomes available.  She also contributes 80% of her income towards the bed and we pay the difference.  It means that nursing home care is affordable for us at the moment but if we refuse the public bed once it becomes available, then we will be liable for the full cost of her care. Dealing with a seriously ill elderly family member is stressful enough without having to deal with a system that is so haphazard and badly organised.


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## z104 (31 Mar 2009)

Newest date is September 1 2009. This information is from ministers office


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## Oracle24 (16 Jul 2009)

An elderly batchelor uncle of mine has been in hospital since Jan after a fall. Between the doctors and the family it has been agreed that he is no longer up to living alone and a nursing home is the best option as none of his siblings are in a position to take him in. He is on the waiting list for a public nursing home. My father has gone to look at some private nursing homes (costing 6K per month!) and has been told that because my uncle is in hospital, under the DDI scheme he can get a place in a private home and the cost is approx €140 per week which comes out of his state pension. Obviously this is suppossed to be until a public bed comes free but the nursing home in question have said that 65% of their residents are there under the DDI scheme and most have been there for 18 months+.
They've also said that the scheme is not means tested in any way. 

Anyone know if this is correct? What are the pros/cons of this system?

Thanks


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## Threadser (14 Aug 2009)

This is correct under the current system.  There are public patients in "contract beds" paying circa 140 euro per week in a private nursing home while the person in the bedroom next door may be paying circa 1000 per week for the same care. This year though ,the HSE didn't contract as many of these beds because the Fair Deal scheme was supposed to be up and running by now.  This means that there are loads of delayed discharge patients in hospital like your Uncle so it's unlikely he will be able to avail of one of these beds although it varies from region to region.

It looks now like the Fair Deal sheme may not be as "fair" as initially thought. If the elderly person requires basics such as incontinence wear this will now have to be paid for in addition to the 80 percent income requirement.  All social care programmes, chiropody, physiotherapy etc will also have to be paid. An bord snip also suggests that a bigger percentage will be taken from the sale of the property of the nursing home resident.


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## gInvestor (17 Aug 2009)

Threadser said:


> It is true that each HSE region has an entirely different system of allocating subvention and the amounted allocated to you depends on what part of the country you live in.



Yes, exact figures are very difficult to get but from what I found out when looking is posted in my previous post. This is true.. Ask yourself why dublin has 3/4 times subvention rates than in the west (then ask where all the politicians are.. 

On top of this. If your mother is from the west but resident in a nursing home in the east, you only receive the subvention from the HSE West. This I cannot understand. 



Threadser said:


> Newest date is September 1 2009. This information is from ministers office


Are you sure ? There aint no date agreed for this to enter the dail. 

I see that the Indo agrees with you:
http://www.independent.ie/health/fair-deal-on-nursinghome-fees-1830363.html

*Hear is the latest news:*
Public website (HSE site) last updated on 9 Oct 2008. 
[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]
This seems to state that its already in with a maximum of 300 which is equal to subvention today so its not going close to cover costs and you'll end up with much larger costs in 2010 due to the tax implications of 2009 budget (41% relief down to 20%) but there are some changes mentioned here (but i'm unsure if these reliefs are on a per week basis as required or a per year, it does'nt state). http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...its-and-reliefs/taxation_and_medical_expenses. The is also a link for dependent relatives [broken link removed]

I'm not sure how all this tax credits work, could anyone that knows please help out here.. Thanks..

2006 to 2009 Responsibility for Older People
Minister of State for Older People, Máire Hoctor.

Now we have:
[broken link removed]
I cant see anything been done by this woman !!

Politics in the HSE !! or Politics by those in the dail !!


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## dewdrop (30 Oct 2009)

I would have thought there would have been much more discussion on the new Nursing Home Scheme and maybe i have missed some posts on it. In my view there has been poor media comment in explaining the scheme apart from Colm Rapple in Irish Examiner on 16th Oct. The area which is badly reported relates to the 5% contribution on a persons assets, Some reports omit that in regard to the family home this applies only for the first three years whereas other reports say total charge is 15% which is incorrect if a person has assets other than the family home.


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## corkymary (30 Oct 2009)

I have enquired from hse on behalf of my father who is in a nursing home for 4 years and paying 1000 euro a week. We sold the family home to pay this huge bill but my concern is if the hse now pay part of his bill(he has a pension of 400 euro from old age and occupational pension), will they come back to claim the balance they will have paid after his death from his estate or his children.? Any help would be appreciated on this.


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## Squonk (30 Oct 2009)

My understanding is that you pay 5% of the cash assets (minus €36k) of a person in a home every year. You also pay 80% of their disposable income i.e. pension. If the person has been in the nursing home for more than 3 years already then there is no liability on on the PPR of that person. There is a discussion here http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=94225&highlight=fair+deal


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