# Need help with getting documents from Builder (post extension)



## arikv (15 Nov 2011)

Hi, I've had a small exempt extension built only recently.
As part of it I also got the entire house insulated (internal walls throughout plus attic, rewired & re-plumbed).
A friend told me that I need to request warranties/certs from the builder.
Can someone please tell me if I'm missing something here:

Certs:
1. Gas cert.
2. Electrical works cert.
3. Cert for constructing of flat roof.

Warranties:
1. Windows and doors rating.
2. Flat roof construction.

Anything else I need to ask him for (or make sure that he provides)?
Thanks.


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## Docarch (15 Nov 2011)

In my experience you are unlikely to get the certs/warranties you outline above unless the provision of these were specifically outlined at the start of the project/when you engaged the builder or were part of a contract between you and the builder. 

No harm in _trying _to get them. 

What's more important than those you have outlined would be to get an Opinion on Compliance with regard to (Exemption from) Planning Permission and an Opinion on Compliance with regard to Building Regulations. These would have to be issued by an architect/building professional (with professional indemnity insurance). If you ever to come to sell your house or indeed try to borrow money (against your house) these would be very important/vital documents to have. 

Again, if the provision of these was not specifically outlined at the start or were part of a contract between you and the builder the builder is unlikey now to get (pay) a professional to prepare these for you. 

Again, no harm in _trying _to get them/asking the builder. 

I assume you had no architect/building professional involved in the project?


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## onq (15 Nov 2011)

arikv said:


> Hi, I've had a small exempt extension built only recently.
> As part of it I also got the entire house insulated (internal walls throughout plus attic, rewired & re-plumbed).
> A friend told me that I need to request warranties/certs from the builder.
> Can someone please tell me if I'm missing something here:
> ...



Did you take a building professional on board to oversee the work or certify it?
Its his or her job to chase these certs and the correct time to do it is just before you issue the last payment.

If not write to the builder and simply request the certs and guarantees.
Certs should be issued by a director of the company or a duly appointed officer.

Do not put up with nonsense from plumbers or sparks saying "we don't issue certs" - demand them.
If he refuses to issue his cert cancel the last cheque if you can - that usually brings him to the table  - call a meeting.

If he says he's not in the business of chasing others for their certs you could try chasing them yourself - suppliers will offer certs if the work is done right.
One cert you seem to have forgotten is one from the builder stating the the extension has been carried out substantially in compliance with the requirements of the building regulations.

As I'm not familiar with the job and remote from it on AAM, I cannot comment in detail on anything else you may have forgotten.


ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied          upon                                   as a defence or support - in     and      of     itself  -         should       legal        action      be             taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                            Real Life with rights to    inspect     and      issue         reports    on     the         matters       at           hand.


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## thomas01 (18 Nov 2011)

Something else to bear in mind is the BER rating.
You need to get written confirmation from the builder identifying the "as built" insulation specification and thickness for the entire extension. A BER assessor will just use default values otherwise.


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## Woodie (18 Nov 2011)

Thats very interesting information to know ONQ.  Informative post as usual.


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## onq (18 Nov 2011)

Happy to be of service Woodie.

The RIAI is starting to do its bit to clean up the profession by coming down on un-Registered Architects unlawfuly using the Title.
That's fine, as far as it goes, but I prefer to set standards for all Building Professionals to stick to that are workable and enforceable and verifiable.

This is because people mis-using a Title doesn't cause the most egregious problems for building owners or users or investors.
The worst problems are are caused by people - Registered or not, qualified or not, in business 10 years or more or not - improperly certifying buildings.

We started exploring the limits of certificates two decades ago, just before the revised RIAI cert came out with the Schedule A assurances.
We tried to find ways of improving the assurances given to clients while not exposing ourselves to dodgy contractors.
The best way we could do this was including their certs with ours and stating we relied on them.
We have carried out remedial works on houses and developed this guideline -

Primary Certs:

- Architect Opinion on Compliance of the Building or Works with Planning Permission
- Architect Opinion on Compliance of the Building or Works with the Building Regulations

Included in this are the following Schedule A Assurances:

From Professionals:
- Structural Engineer
- Mechanical and Electrical Engineer

From Contractors:
- Main Contractor
- Electrical Contractor
- Plumbing Contractor

I think there may have been one or two others, as well as the manuals for boilers, guarantees for cookers, fridges, dishwashers, washing machines etc.
A simple package when its pulled together and the best time to do it is just before the builder is paid.

The other professionals besides the architect can give specialist independent comment during the snag list stage as well and this needn't cost the earth.
But its a proper Opinion of Compliance, not just a "Paddy-Last Cert" based on a "Drive-By Inspection".

Sometimes clients won't appoint an M&E Engineer, sometimes they will, but the structure is like that shown above.


ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied           upon                                   as a defence or support -  in     and      of     itself  -         should       legal         action      be             taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                             Real Life with rights to     inspect     and      issue         reports    on     the         matters        at           hand.


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## Docarch (20 Nov 2011)

Good advice ONQ, but the OP should bear in mind that the builder is not _legally_ obliged to provide any of this documentation/certification on completion.  Again, I would suggest this is a fault with 'the system'.

What I do (as an architect) is specify for all projects, at tender/pricing stage, is that this documentation/certification be provided by the builder on completion of the project.  So the provision of these becomes quasi-contrcatual or very simply the builder does not get his final payment until all documentation/certification has been provided.  

You do not need to have an architcet to get this documentation/certification for a projcet, but I would suggest that the only hope you have of getting this documentation/certification at the end of the project is if the provision of same has been agreed with the builder before appointment/at the outset of the works.


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## onq (20 Nov 2011)

You're perfectly correct Docarch.
However, its very simple as far as I am concerned.
I control payments and use them to ensure I get the documents 

Builder provides the required assurances that he and his subbies have complied with the requirements of the Building Regulations or they don't get paid.
Since the builder controls payments to all domestic sub-contractors its useful to make this known to him, but some subbies can be contrary, so make it known to them too.
This supports the fitness for purpose assumptions in common law as far as I know (please feel free to correct me on this) as the lack of proper certification may well affect later sell on.

ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied           upon                                   as a defence or support -  in     and      of     itself  -         should       legal         action      be             taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                             Real Life with rights to     inspect     and      issue         reports    on     the         matters        at           hand.


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