# Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2)



## blobert (28 Aug 2008)

Hello,

My partner and I are in the process of buying a 2 bedroom apartment in Dublin 2 in the Docklands area through their Affordable Housing scheme.

We have been told the annual management fee will be €3,200. This seems very high, even for the area.

In particular because the block in question (separate from the main block of the development) has almost no common space to be maintained (staircase and that's it) and no grounds or gardens etc. There is a small concrete courtyard between the 2 blocks (there are offices as part of the development) which again would require close to zero maintenance. There is a car park for the offices and other block of apartments. As the buyers of the affordable housing block had no option to buy a space, I’d imagine they would not have to contribute to its upkeep.

I read that the cost of maintaining a lift is quite high and this is divided between the number of apartments in the block. Thus with only 12 apartments in our block this might explain the management agent's attempts to justify this fee but even still it seems excessive. Apartments in the immediate area with much more common areas etc (including built in children's playgrounds!) have fees of about €2,000 so I think €3,200 for a building requiring minimal maintenance is more than a bit overpriced

I spoke to the Docklands about it and they said there was nothing they could do. They suggested something about the fees being so high because with there only being 12 apartments that we have to make up the difference of the management fees, they give a set fee per block, sounds rather iffy. They also suggested that if all 12 apartment owners wanted to change management agent we could do so. I believe this could be a difficult process, especially as the block we are in is probably tied in to the main block and thus we would have to convince all of them to change also.

Is it possible to have a separate management agent for our block?

I'm more than a bit concerned about this, we are not willing/able to afford €3,200 per annum, nor would I imagine any of the other residents.

This is not an area I know much about so any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks


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## truthseeker (28 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Ask for a breakdown on what exactly is covered for the money.

In my case we asked for a breakdown and our fees cover things like:
Building insurance
Bins
Grounds Maintenance
Common area maintenance
Window Cleaning 
Electricity for common area lights/carpark lights

There are a few other items Im sure - they should be able to give you a breakdown with costs per item - you can then decide if you are getting value for money.


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## Bubbly Scot (28 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Ditto what truthseeker suggests.

It "might" be possible to have a seperate agent for your block but only if you also have a seperate management company. I can't see how it would work with two agents working for the same one (I'm an agent and I wouldn't take that on).

 Get all the costs broken down for you, also check what the agent is charging, if this complex is as easy to maintain as you suggest their fees might be too high. Your agent does a lot of work you won't see  and a good one is invaluable but you need to be getting your moneys worth.

I'm wondering if you're paying an enhanced fee to cover office maintenance costs? Unlikely but worth checking out. Get a copy of the budget proposal from the agent. Look closely at the insurance block policy, that might be high because of the office block.

For what it's worth, your fees do seem particularly high to me.


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## teachai (28 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Walk away. Those fees are extortionate.  Its the best part of €300 per month.


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## blobert (29 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Thanks for the advice guys.

I don't think a management company has been set up for our block (Block B) I had a look and found a company record for the Block C, which has had people living in it for about a year or two. Similarly Block A must have its own management company (separate from Block C I believe).

Dublin Docklands don't really seem to know what is going on either, I'll try and get clarification from them.

If it is possible to set up a separate management company for the block we are in do you think it would be possible to get a lower price on these fees? All 12 apartments will be owner/occupier.

A 3 bed apartment in a better nearby complex with lots of common spaces, better facilities costs €2050 pa so I can't help but feel this is seriously overpriced.

Any further advice would be much appreciated.


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## teachai (29 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Look at this way. If you can afford to spend €300 per month on management fees, you would be better off putting that towards a mortgage on a house.


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## blobert (29 Aug 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Thanks. 

Management fees are a part of apartment living that I am happy to accept this. 

My problem is that rates for this area are about 2k pa and I believe this block should be even lower than this as mentioned above. Thus I'm wondering how to go about making sure what the residents pay is close to this and not the inflated figure of €3,200


I agree with you that if I have to pay this amount that it is not worth living here however none of these apartments have been sold yet and if nobody agrees to sign up for this then I hope there is a chance to avoid it.


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## blobert (3 Sep 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

Hello folks, the prospective management company seems to have given a new quote of €2,700 which still seems to be ridiculously high.

I've been trying to do a bit of reading on the subject matter.

Am I right in saying that the management company consists of all the apartment owners. Is the developer also involved once all the apartments are sold and do they have an equal vote to other members? 

I read that:

_The developer who built the block retains control of the management company that represents the residents until all units have been sold._

Does this mean that the developer can appoint a management agent charging any fee he wants untill all apartments are sold? Seems open to abuse..

Is it possible to put a differenent management agent in place if all 12 apartment owners want to do this? Could this be done before we all move in to our apartments or does the developer get to choose the agent until such a time as all 12 are bought?

Thanks


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## hippo.hi (17 Sep 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*



blobert said:


> Does this mean that the developer can appoint a management agent charging any fee he wants untill all apartments are sold? Seems open to abuse..


 
It is open to abuse. Also - the developers are not obliged to pay management fees for unsold apartments even if they are rented! I live in development that is dealing with this situation unfortunately.


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## MOB (20 Sep 2008)

*Re: Questions Re Ridiculously High Managment Fees in Affordable Housing Apt (Dublin 2*

I have bought a unit in the Docklands area and there was some added complexity with some of the management company arrangements.  There was a management company for the overall development of a particular site containing several blocks- and you had to pay something toward this; then there was a management company for the particular block.

Ask your solicitor to go through the title with you and explain the arrangements which apply in your case


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