# Fixed Speeding fine



## roker (2 Sep 2011)

I just got a fixed point penalty fine in the post for doing 60 in a 50 area. I must have done it because I was in that area at the time, I will pay and get my 2 penalty points. (this equates to 6.2 mph over in old units)

I pride myself on watching the speed limits, but I must have slipped up, I cannot constantly watch my speedo. I presently have no penalty points and this is my second speeding offence in 50 years of driving, the last one was 20 year ago when I was caught coming in across a 30 mph de-restriction sign.

What I think is unfair is, I cannot recall the incident or do I know the area because I was not stopped at the time to challenge them.
It assumes I was driving and I incriminate myself when I pay.
Who checks to see if their speed equipment is calibrated correctly, If I query this I have to go to court and risk 4 penalty points and double the fine, this is not justice for challenging something in court, extra point.

So for making a rare mistake of going 10km/h (6.2 mph on the edge of my speedo accuracy) I get a €80 fine 2 penalty points and possible increase to my insurance.
This is more like a tax, we will all get caught at some time.
The message they are getting across is "Watch the Speedo not the Road"


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## Leo (2 Sep 2011)

Is there a genuine question here or is this more 'Letting off Steam' material?

Are you saying you think it's unfair because you can't remember it? Also, chances are if you were flagged as travelling at 60, your speedo would have been reading somewhere around 65/66 at the time due to the tolerances built in. 

Personally I believe the camera system in place has a significant revenue generation component to it, and I've been caught twice, but I can't say it's unfair. I know the rules, they're well publicised, so I have to take responsibility for my actions.
Leo


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## flossie (2 Sep 2011)

It is unlikely to affect your isurance premium as you will only have 2 points. We all speed, no matter how careful we drive (as you said, you can't be fixed on the speedo ). 

The Gardai can't posssibly stop all that are speeding as it will be a waste of resources and distract from catching other speeding drivers.  Perhaps you could ask for record fo calibration, but i believe that ubnder current legislation anything that is used to measure any unit must be calibrated, so i think it would be unlikely if it isn't.


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## 44brendan (2 Sep 2011)

Got caught myself last week doing about 60 in a 50 Km limit.Really annoying as the limit extens out well beyond the residential area and its downhill. I.e. really an effort to keep within 50. It's not a dangerous area but must be a good revenue generator.


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## roker (2 Sep 2011)

Leo; Is this forum for questions only? it’s unfair because if you make a legal challenge you could get twice the penalty and twice the fine, their speed is around the limits of accuracy of my speedo tolerance at 50km/hr. You could be perfectly OK according to the speedo (don't forget tyre wear affects the accuracy). Leo can you remember everywhere you were and the exact speed you were doing a week ago?
The Garda are not stopping people, it's the contract vans.
Before I retired I was a Calibration Engineer and I know that there should be a defined tolerance on their equipment, 4 times better than the car they are reading, and calibrated regularly but I cannot challenge it.


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## youmzain (4 Sep 2011)

Hi all, I also received a speeding fine last week ( drogheda area). Again for 61 in a 50 zone. I too had!! an unblemished 13 year driving record prior to this. On the day in question im a 100% sure i was picked up by a travelling traffic corps vehicle with the mounted camera. My issue is that im also 100% sure i was in the 60 KM zone at the time ( it runs for a couple of hundred metres between the 50 and 100 km zones) .the sign for the 60 zone is partial blocked by trees. I drive the road every morning for the last 4+ years so im aware of all sign posts etc. So my question is, is there any way i can challange this fine or do i just have to accept it as just my tough luck and the gardai are always right?


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## roker (5 Sep 2011)

It looks like we are turning into a police state (tough luck), but why don't you take a photo of the sign covered by trees?
It seems the message they are getting across is: "watch your speedo not the road"


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## blueband (7 Sep 2011)

its all about revenue at the end of the day, noting else.


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## roker (9 Sep 2011)

As anyone could fall in to this trap, It would be interesting to see if they catch their own off duty, and see what happens, will they get penalty points etc?


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## blueband (9 Sep 2011)

there own 'off duty' cant get penalty points.


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## roker (19 Sep 2011)

Just to let you know Flossie, it did effect my insurance, they knocked off the 10% discount. (Aviva)


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## terrontress (19 Sep 2011)

roker said:


> Just to let you know Flossie, it did effect my insurance, they knocked off the 10% discount. (Aviva)


 
Also, if you challenge it through the courts, the points will be doubled and I believe 4 points is where the insurance company starts to load the premium.

I can't believe they get away with doubling the penalty for someone querying the validity of the accusation.

It's a case of "shut up and believe what we tell you or we'll do you twice as bad".


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## nai (19 Sep 2011)

blueband said:


> there own 'off duty' cant get penalty points.



Care to explain ? I ask because I've seen evidence to counter your argument.


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## Leo (20 Sep 2011)

terrontress said:


> Also, if you challenge it through the courts, the points will be doubled and I believe 4 points is where the insurance company starts to load the premium.
> 
> I can't believe they get away with doubling the penalty for someone querying the validity of the accusation.
> 
> It's a case of "shut up and believe what we tell you or we'll do you twice as bad".


 
A conviction in court and a fixed penalty are two very different animals. If you have a genuine defense, you should have no fear going to court and walking out with zero points. If you don't have a defence, why waste the court's time?


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## Mpsox (20 Sep 2011)

terrontress said:


> Also, if you challenge it through the courts, the points will be doubled and I believe 4 points is where the insurance company starts to load the premium.
> 
> I can't believe they get away with doubling the penalty for someone querying the validity of the accusation.
> 
> It's a case of "shut up and believe what we tell you or we'll do you twice as bad".


 
My understanding is that the penalty for speeding is 4 points and it's halved if you don't fight it in court


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## roker (20 Sep 2011)

Leo, the point is, you cannot prove you have a genuine defence because they will not give you details of their equipment, as Terrontress said, "shut up and believe what we tell you or we'll do you twice as bad".
But I have been loaded by the insurance for 2 point, €28 extra and loss of 10% discount


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## Complainer (20 Sep 2011)

And were you speeding?


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## roker (21 Sep 2011)

At 6 mph over, who knows, as previously explained, it on the fringe of the accuracy of the equipment.


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## onq (21 Sep 2011)

Is this the second thread you've started about this one incident?

The other one centred on the giving of evidence and whether the other side had to show you their case.

(rummages in the post bin)

Oh yeah - here we go...


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## Leper (21 Sep 2011)

I know loads of people who claim not to drive over the speed limit,never  crash red lights, dont park on double yellow lines, wont enter yellow boxes unless their way is clear, etc etc.

The fact is they do and will continue to do so until they are hunted down. Yep, they come on here too screaming innocence.


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## roker (21 Sep 2011)

ong; Same incident, two different subject


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## Leo (21 Sep 2011)

roker said:


> At 6 mph over, who knows, as previously explained, it on the fringe of the accuracy of the equipment.


 
The RedFlex systems are +/-1.6 kph. As noted elsewhere, the legislation was drawn up so as to discourage cases like this wasting the courts time.


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## roker (21 Sep 2011)

Thanks leo, I looked all over the internet to get this information, where did you get it? Note this is for new equipment, we still need to know how and when it is maintained to this standard.
Sorry I am looking a bit deeper in to this because calibration/accuracies was my job.


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## nai (21 Sep 2011)

Roker,

why not just submit a FOI request to get access to the calibration details?


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## roker (21 Sep 2011)

What is FOI? |I have written requesting deatails but the garda will not give it out.


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## Complainer (21 Sep 2011)

FOI is 'Freedom of Information' but it doesn't apply to the Gardai


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## nai (21 Sep 2011)

This wasn't a Garda van - gosafe Van.


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## T McGibney (22 Sep 2011)

Leper said:


> I know loads of people who claim not to drive over the speed limit,never  crash red lights, dont park on double yellow lines, wont enter yellow boxes unless their way is clear, etc etc.
> 
> The fact is they do and will continue to do so until they are hunted down. Yep, they come on here too screaming innocence.



Didn't they say something similar to the Guildford Four?


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## Complainer (22 Sep 2011)

nai said:


> This wasn't a Garda van - gosafe Van.


Gosafe are under contract to the Gardai, I think.


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## johnwilliams (23 Sep 2011)

ok if you are doing 50 what speed should their equipment be reading
brendan 44
i pass through an area that they are positioned at bottom of hill
speed limit is 50 ,you have to enter the area at less than 40, lots of kids running and crossing the roads ,while you are keeping a eye on the kids your speed picks up going down the hill


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