# tenants withholding rent



## backfromoz (20 Nov 2007)

I am renting my 2 bedroom apartment through an estate agent. 

Apparently there was a problem with the heating.

The estate agent failed to act promptly and it was 3 weeks before the issue was sorted out.

This was not acceptable. However it was fixed 2 weeks ago and the tenants have just withheld half the rent for this month.

Is it their right to do this?

Legally can they do this?


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## gonk (20 Nov 2007)

No. they can't.

While the situation was, as you accept, unsatisfactory, they cannot unilaterally withhold rent. Presumably the fault in the heater didn't actually force them to move out of the apartment until it was fixed, so they still had the use of your property. They could have had the repair done themselves if it was not done in a reasonable time by you or your agent, and in this case, you would be legally liable for the cost.

If you accept this, what is to stop them withholding rent any time they decide some other aspect of the apartment isn't up to scratch? You need to make this clear to them, while maybe making some goodwill payment for the inconvenience caused.


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## Bronte (21 Nov 2007)

The repair should have been made quicker than 3 weeks.  I'm not criticizing you but would you like no heating in November for this length of time at this time of year.  I think that is the way the PRTB would look at it. I don't agree with the tenant's withholding the rent, but it is the estate agent who you should be complaining to and probably getting rid of as well.


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## backfromoz (21 Nov 2007)

Absolutely it was too long and I'm very angry with estate agent.However in the same month I provided 2 new mattresses/a new sofa bed/microwave. There was no discussion prior to withholding the rent and there are proper channels to go through.


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## z106 (21 Nov 2007)

Ya - you should seriously give the agent a mouthful.
You should also leave it up tpo the agent to negotiate in getting back your rent as firstly,that's whyhe's employed by you, and secondly it was their fault.


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## robd (21 Nov 2007)

backfromoz said:


> Absolutely it was too long and I'm very angry with estate agent.However in the same month I provided 2 new mattresses/a new sofa bed/microwave. There was no discussion prior to withholding the rent and there are proper channels to go through.



Like everything else there is procedures with this.  If the tenants were not happy with the delay in getting the heating fixed then they should have notified you and/or the agent in writing, also indicating that they would withhold rent if it was not fixed by X date.  They did not so they can't withold rent after the event.  They still had full use of the place and it's not that cold yet.

While 2 weeks is a long time it's not extrodinary.  I had trouble with getting my heating fixed before.  In fareness 75% of the problem was a useless unreliable plumber, 25% was the agent being disorganised.

You should send them a letter seeking payment as per above and if it is not forthcoming you should put your case to the PRTB.  An apology in the letter for the inefficianies would be a good idea also.  You need to write them a letter rather than ring them or have the agent ring them (who's probably being somewhat economical with the truth anyway).

As a tenant I've been on the other side of this.  Agents can be very useless people and worken even more useless.  I don't know why landlords waste there money year in year out paying these people to do what they could easily do themselves.  It's expensive hassle money really.


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## aircobra19 (21 Nov 2007)

robd said:


> ...Agents can be very useless people and worken even more useless.  I don't know why landlords waste there money year in year out paying these people to do what they could easily do themselves.  It's expensive hassle money really.



Really, I can think of many reasons why it would be easier to employ an agent. Landlord isn't located near property. Landlord doesn't have time to be hands on. Etc.


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## z106 (21 Nov 2007)

If a landlord isn't near the property then fair enough i suppose.

Other than that agents are a complete rip-off.

I have a few apartments which i manage myself and i rarely get a call about anything.


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## aircobra19 (21 Nov 2007)

qwertyuiop said:


> If a landlord isn't near the property then fair enough i suppose.
> 
> Other than that agents are a complete rip-off.
> 
> I have a few apartments which i manage myself and i rarely get a call about anything.



Thats doesn't mean all rental properties or tenant as as undemanding as yours. I know an elderly person who uses a letting agent for some properties and not for others. Some properties seem to be just more demanding to manage than others. Ditto certain tenants. Theres also (I assume) good and bad agents.


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## fintans (21 Nov 2007)

I would give the impression of just taking it on the chin for now, and then deduct it out of their deposit when they leave. More than one way to skin a cat etc.....


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## pc7 (21 Nov 2007)

If it was me I'd see this as a warning signal that they are going to be trouble and use this for everything. Personally I'd serve notice to quit and deduct it from the deposit as suggested by fintans.


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## Klesser (21 Nov 2007)

December two years ago the heating went in the house i was renting back then. There was also no way to heat water.  The house was freezing and the landlord told me it would be 10days before he could look at it and see if he needed to get some one in.  This was not acceptable and as it was just me and my young child I was forced to stay i3nights in a hotel and then a nearby B&B till the heating was fixed so therefore the landlord did not get his rent that month.  
Maybe your tenants had to find alternative accommodation?  Or maybe they had to get electric heaters which would cause a significant increase on the electricity bill if used for two weeks?
I think you should ring the PRTB or threshold.


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## backfromoz (21 Nov 2007)

They didnt have to move out. In fact they had a extra person staying there. I visited the apartment twice and is wasn't cold. I think it must get heat from apartment downstairs because it always seems warm even when heat is off ( I lived there in the past).THey still had hot water.
Again that doesnt excuse the delay in fixing the heating.Its difficult -I only found out about the heating because they mentioned it when I dropped in the sofa.they hadnt told the estate agent.If it was a priority they should have contacted the agent, not mentioned it on spec.And why deduct the rent 3 weeks after it was fixed.THey shouldve discussed it first or complained to PTRB!


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## Marie (21 Nov 2007)

It might be important to step back from the escalation implied in the suggestion abobe, of clawing back what the tenants have deducted for loss of amenity.  There are three 'parties' involved and you really need to get the facts before launching into any of these 'knee-jerk' reaction.  Letting a property is a business contract.  The tenant is paying for a fully-functioning residence.  If they view a property which purports to have all mod cons and be 'fully-furnished' and find they don't have heating (in _winter_..........regardless of what the preferences and views of landlords and agents are about it 'being warm for this time of year'..........then that contract has been broken.

A neighbour of mine - a single mother with a 9-year old and a 12-year old - let slip recently that the central heating of her rented house is not functioning and she has had to use electric fires (at considerable expense!) to keep her children warm, that the pet-flap in the back door was jammed so her menagerie could not get in or out, and that the landlady had not supplied the keys to open the window-locks so her kitchen was full of condensation whenever she used the washing-machine or dish-washer.  She had 'told the landlady' but nothing had been done.

We collectively - several neighbours - got our DIY tools, trimmed the pet-flap, draught-proofed her front door so the kids weren't having their a*es frozen off when watching telly, and creatively dealt with the window-locks.  We told her to refer the landlady to US (collectively!) if she had any problems with that, and if the central heating was not sorted out IMMEDIATELY to (a) inform the local authority Health and Safety Section that the environment was rendered unsuitable for her children and (b) notify the landlady in writing of her intention to with-hold rent for whatever period that facility was not available.  We are behind her to the hilt.

The landlady arrived the next day with a heating plumber and there hasn't been a word about the defects which made this womans' life a misery for months, or our creative amateur remedy.  Kaboom!


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## minion (24 Nov 2007)

Fire your Agent.  Or at the very least get him to sort it out by doing the following.  If you fire him do the following yourself.

Tennants cant withhold rent.

Increase the rent at the earliest opportunity to whatever the maximum of the market is when you increase it.  Im sure its higher than when they moved in.  Increase the rent at every oportunity you get too.

Give the tennants a receipt showing arrears every month until the arrears are paid.

Deduct any arrears left from their deposit when they leave.


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## rmelly (24 Nov 2007)

> Increase the rent at the earliest opportunity to whatever the maximum of the market is when you increase it. Im sure its higher than when they moved in. Increase the rent at every oportunity you get too.


 
Yeah, screw the tenant for every cent you can - the cheek of them, expecting heat in the middle of winter - can they not just put on more clothes, or wear hot water bottles all over themselves or something? Next they'll be demanding running water, and god forbid, electricity.

Reach a compromise - agree to write off a weeks rent. If you can't afford to do this, you shouldn't be a landlord.


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## minion (25 Nov 2007)

rmelly said:


> Yeah, screw the tenant for every cent you can - the cheek of them, expecting heat in the middle of winter - can they not just put on more clothes, or wear hot water bottles all over themselves or something? Next they'll be demanding running water, and god forbid, electricity.
> 
> Reach a compromise - agree to write off a weeks rent. If you can't afford to do this, you shouldn't be a landlord.



Fixing the heating and withholding the rent are seperate issues/
They should be dealt with independantly.
The heating is certainly an issue but the tennant cant withhold rent for it.

There are rules and regulations for both parties to abide by.

They are not allowed to withhold the rent.  They owe the OP money.  They ****ed him off so he can do whatever he likes to get the money.

He is entitled to raise the rent every year to market rates at that time.
Most landlords dont raise it to the max if the tennant is a good tennant.
If the landlord sets a precedent of allowing the tennant to withhold the rent he is going to have worse problems later.


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## Dreamerb (25 Nov 2007)

minion said:


> There are rules and regulations for both parties to abide by.
> 
> [...]
> 
> They ****ed him off so he can do whatever he likes to get the money.


This is a direct contradiction. There _are_ rules and regulations, so no he _can't_ do "whatever he likes" to get the money. 

The OP can lodge a complaint with the PRTB if he wishes, that being the body responsible for arbitrating on such disputes. Personally, I'd advise coming to a compromise, accepting that the heating being broken is unacceptable, and agreeing on a partial rent rebate for the period. Since they didn't have to move out, half might be excessive, but that's just my view.


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## z106 (25 Nov 2007)

Ya - that's the obvious solution.

Just to give them a reasonable monetary compensation.


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## Afuera (27 Nov 2007)

minion said:


> He is entitled to raise the rent every year to market rates at that time.


How much is he entitled to raise it to when the market rate goes down?


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## minion (30 Nov 2007)

Dreamerb said:


> This is a direct contradiction. There _are_ rules and regulations, so no he _can't_ do "whatever he likes" to get the money.



You know what i mean.  You're just being anal there.


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## minion (30 Nov 2007)

Afuera said:


> How much is he entitled to raise it to when the market rate goes down?



Well he'll have to cross that bridge when the market rates go down, wont he.


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## Dreamerb (1 Dec 2007)

minion said:


> You know what i mean.  You're just being anal there.


Actually, I don't know what you mean. And since sometimes people, whether through ignorance of the law or otherwise, suggest things that are illegal (like changing the locks on tenants with whom they have a dispute), it's always worth pointing out that there is a substantial body of law which prescribes how landlord-tenant disputes shall be dealt with. 

I would also draw your attention, in respect of posts #15 and #21 in this thread, to posting guideline 10.


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## Howitzer (1 Dec 2007)

minion said:


> Well he'll have to cross that bridge when the market rates go down, wont he.


Looks like he better get his bridge crossing boots on so.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=65696


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