# Sold my car, Buyer now decides he wants to return it 3 months later!!..



## Eamonn T (7 Sep 2010)

Hi All,
  I sold my car back in May to a guy from cork, I advertised the car Privatly on a website for sale and got a call from him. He asked alot of questions and said he would try and arrange a day to veiw the car when he speaks to his mechanic who he would be taking along with him.

I heard nothing back from him for about 3 weeks, he called me up 1 evening and said he would meet me in Dundalk the next day.
The following day I met him in Dundalk, he was alone ( No mechanic like he said 3 weeks earlier ), he inspected the car well for about 15 - 25mins and seemed to know theses cars well and seemed like he knew what he was doing and knew what to look for ect then he took a test drive out the road for about 20mile. He asked me how much the VRT is but I didnt know, I said I Think around €4000. He said he liked the car but he had looked at a similar car in Dublin a few hours earlier and that car was some €1000 cheaper, he said if I droped €1000 he would buy my car instead of the Dubliners car. I refused, he then called up the Dub and persisted to try and haggle him down in price wile I sat beside him in the car and would then turn to me and say " This man is willing to take €12500 would I match this" I agreed, he then persisted to push the dubliner down further in price but the Dubliner was having no more of it and told him to get lost and hung up.

He then handed me a €300 deposit and asked me if I would put 4 tires on the car and if I would meet him in Kildare in a few days which I agreed to. 
The very next day he called me up and said the VRT price I quoted him was rong and was actually €400 more!!..
He said he wanted his deposit back as I had Lied to him about the price, but I didnt know the price and told him that "I Think" its around €4000. In my opinion I didnt lie to him about anything. I agreed to meet him half way in end up and knocked €200 of the price of the car to compensate his mistake which he blamed on me!!..

A few days later I set of for Kildare followed by a mate of mine in his car to take me back home again. I met the buyer in a supermarket carpark, he took the car for another test drive and so did his wife. They said they liked it and were satisfied with it, I had priviously told him over the phone that I was unable to get the tires fitted as due to them being such an unusual size it was going to take the tyre center 2 weeks or so to get them in for me, he said ok that I could forward the tires on to him when they arrived by DHL or DPD ect.

He handed me the money in an envolope but when I counted the money he was infact €350 short, When I questioned him on this he replied " Take it or Leave it" After a bit of a verbal row with him over this I decided to lick my wounds and accept his money. I handed him a reciept of sale I wanted him to sign which basicly stated that the car was Sold Privatly "As is" and that he was satisfied with the time I provided him to inspect the car and the cars condition ect. but he refused to sign it, I took the keys and handed him his money and attempted to leave but he then snatched the reciept from me and scribbled a signature on it in a different name!.. I refused to accept it from him in this name but he said he wanted the car registered in his brothers name with his Belfast address which he give me so since the name and address he give me matched the signature I was happy enough and headed for home.

To my disbelieve and shock the next morning at 6:15AM he called me up and verbally abused me over the phone because I didnt remove the car from the website I had it advertised on yet and that he was no longer willing to wait on tires he wanted them immediatly. I kinda lost my temper with him and his unmannerly attidute and told him straight out, He had to wait on tires as the tyre depo didnt have them for around another 2 weeks and I could not make 4 tyres for him. I also told him straight I wasnt impressed 1 bit with his attidute and calling me up at that hour of the morning. 

Around 2 weeks later he called my wifes fone ( I had previously returned a missed call to him from her fone around the time we were trying to arrange the collection of the car so he must have saved her number!..) He absolutly terrified the life out of her by calling her every name under the sun and threatened to "send some heafty lads down to sort us out if he didnt have his tires by the end of the day" He continued to call her fone and not once attepted to call mine the next day 4 or 5 times and said he no longer wanted the tires he wanted €800 compensation to get 4 tires and to fix a sensor that was gone in the car ( First mention of a sensor being gone some 3 weeks later )

I was out of the country and my wife was home alone with the kids and was terrified of this fellas threts, so I decided I would call him up and explain that he didnt have his tires because I was out the country that week but my brother would arrange everything that day. He didnt even let me speak!!.. He ate me over the fone in some rant you wouldnt hear of a crazy man!. and said he no longer wanted the tires ( which I had already paid for and had been sent to him that day by my brother with DHL ) but he wanted €800 compensation. I refused as I felt this guy must suffer from some mental ilness or somthing by the way he was carrying on. He recieved the tires 2 days later and I heard nothing more from him until now September.

The vehicle was registered to a garage up north here where I originally purchased the car ( For some reason unknown to myself I forgot to get the car put in my name ) but last week I got a call from the garage owner who tells me that he got a solicitors letter from a guy in cork regarding my car. 
He is now alleging 3 months later!.. that the car has an injection system fault, a Manifold fault, an ABS sensor is gone, It has a broken wing mirror and the car actually has over 100,000 miles more than the clocks show!!.. He wants €5000 compensation or to take the car back and pay him his €12,500 back.
The garrage owner ran a HPI check for me on saturday and also a check with Cartel.ie and it shows up " No Milage Discrepancies". 

The letter also says that I informed the buyer that I was selling the car on behalf of this garage owner which is totally untrue. The garage owner isnt even going to reply to the letter and he says I should ignore him too if he sends me a letter but as yet Iv recieved nothing.

It really annoys me as the car was a perfect car with absolutly no faults whatsoever when I sold it to this guy, The car is a 5 series BMW and has an i-Drive system, Iv been told by a main BMW dealer today that if an ABS sensor was faulty or the manifold or Injection System was faulty it would show up as a warning on the i-Drive screen immidiatly and would not go away until fixed so I am absolutly 100% sure these alleged faults were not present on the car when I sold it as the i -Drive would have picked them up and he would have even seen them on his test drives also. I cannot understand how this fella can insist the millage to not be correct, when I purchased the car a few years ago in the UK I done a HPI check and it showed up HPI clear with " No Mileage Discrepancies " when I heard he was alleging the mileage to be incorrect I again done another HPI Check and a Cartell.ie check on Saturday and again the car showed up HPI Clear with " No Accidents or Mileage Discrepancies ".

My wife is all upset and terribly annoyed about the whole situation as am I myself now that he seems to be resorting to a legal road. We have now bought another car and dont have the money to refund him and take back the car but I also feel that this guy may have had this whole thing planned out from day one as I am absolutly certain that that car was perfect when it left here and certainly did not have any problem which he is alleging so im struggling to understand why somone would attempt a stunt like this guy has unless he is some kind of con artist.

Im sory for perhaps rambling on a bit in telling the story but I feel the whole story has to be told in order to expect anyone to offer proper advice or an opinion which are based on all the facts!..

Has anyone else found themselves in a situation similar to this following the sale of your vehicle?.. How is this likly to go if it went to court??..

Thanks for your advice & opinions in advance,
Eamonn


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## bacchus (7 Sep 2010)

I have not read your post as it is too long. So my answer is based on the title...

"Caveat Emptor" applies when selling/buying cars, so buyer has no come back.


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

Agreed he has no comeback whatsoever.


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## aristotle (7 Sep 2010)

He has no comeback obviously and it will not go to court. But man did he have you wrapped around his little finger or what. You gave in to all of his demands, agreed to put on 4 new tyres after a price was agreed and even accepted less money than was agreed. You should have walked.

Now he is obviously chancing his arm again. You sound like a genuine guy and its not up to you to have to counter all of these allegations. The deal is done and thats it. You just need to toughen up on your responses to this fella.

You could consider changing your phone numbers and if you are being threatened I would make it known to the guards.


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

I would agree on changing your phone numbers. It is the easiest way to stop any trouble.


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## niceoneted (7 Sep 2010)

I take it you live in the north? Due to him having to pay duty. It may be a case that he has not reregistered the car - if he looking for his money back - thus I would consider reporting him to Irish customs.
Ring your phone company and have his number blocked. Don't answer private numbers and ignore any messages. 
Report him to the police for harassment if he persists. 
He has no come back.


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## Purple (7 Sep 2010)

God I’d love to deal with this guy. Nothing give me more pleasure than putting a clown like him in his box (verbally that is).
In answer to your question, as other posters have said, he has no come back. Next time he calls laugh at him and tell him to get stuffed.


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## mathepac (7 Sep 2010)

Eamonn T said:


> ... The vehicle was registered to a garage up north here where I originally purchased the car ( *For some reason unknown to myself I forgot to get the car put in my name* ) ...


Let me take a wild guess here. Would the need to pay €4.5k in VRT on importing and registering the car in your name have any bearing on the poor memory, or is that just my cynical side showing?

If OP was NI-based the garage would have registered the V5 in OP's name on purchase, so that probably means the car was bought as a personal export with the V5 handed over at point of sale. (Just noticed OP's location says Co. Louth)

I agree it's not acceptable that you or your wife should have to be on the receiving end of abuse from the purchaser, but it's also not acceptable that the car be driven around with no VRT or tax paid on it in this country, thus abusing our taxation laws. I guess the old saying about birds of a feather might apply here.


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## marti18 (7 Sep 2010)

he bought the car sold as seen....i have sold many many cars this way and never had any crap like this. once he signed for it its now out of your hands.

let the gangster cry all he wants because its nothing got to do with you PERIOD


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## dereko1969 (7 Sep 2010)

Have to agree with Mathepac here, the OP has been taking the proverbials by not taxing his car which he bought *a few years ago* according to himself, now having flouted the law he wants the law's help in dealing with another tax cheat who wants the car registered to an address in the North - reap as ye shall sow.

and given one of his previous posts is this
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1078812&postcount=25
i think that says it all.


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## aristotle (7 Sep 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> Have to agree with Mathepac here, the OP has been taking the proverbials by not taxing his car which he bought *a few years ago* according to himself, now having flouted the law he wants the law's help in dealing with another tax cheat who wants the car registered to an address in the North - reap as ye shall sow.
> 
> and given one of his previous posts is this
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1078812&postcount=25
> i think that says it all.


 
Hmm, seems I was wrong in thinking the OP was a "genuine" type of fella.


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## Tinker Bell (7 Sep 2010)

The OP's letter asks for a lot of suspended rationale.


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## Purple (7 Sep 2010)

aristotle said:


> hmm, seems i was wrong in thinking the op was a "genuine" type of fella.



+1


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

Let he without sin cast the first stone.


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## dereko1969 (7 Sep 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> Let he without sin cast the first stone.


 
I did!


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## DiGiTaL (7 Sep 2010)

I think the OP is looking for advice on his predicamint, not a lecture on the rights and wrongs of paying VRT.


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## Purple (7 Sep 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> Let he without sin cast the first stone.



Yea, god forbid anyone should have a problem with stealing.


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## Purple (7 Sep 2010)

DiGiTaL said:


> I think the OP is looking for advice on his predicamint, not a lecture on the rights and wrongs of paying VRT.


Yep, but when it appears that the OP has committed a crime and defrauded the people of Ireland then people will comment.


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

It is typical of a country like Ireland. Won't someone please think of the children.


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## aristotle (7 Sep 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> It is typical of a country like Ireland. Won't someone please think of the children.
> 
> God forbid anyone here who has ever done 51 km/h down a city street. Go turn yourselves in like the good obedient citizens that yee claim to be.


 
Marginally breaking the speed limit is not on the same level as actively avoiding paying tax that should be paid.


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## mathepac (7 Sep 2010)

marti18 said:


> he bought the car sold as seen....*i have sold many many cars this way* and never had any crap like this. once he signed for it its now out of your hands.
> 
> let the gangster cry all he wants because its nothing got to do with you PERIOD


But of course you are still a private seller and not a motor-trader, thus the Sale of Goods and Services Act doesn't apply for any punter buying one of your "many many cars" "sold...this way".


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## DB74 (7 Sep 2010)

Eamonn T said:


> We have now bought another car


 
Did you "forget" to pay the VRT on this one as well?

If so you can treat this post as a gentle reminder.


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## Eamonn T (7 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> Did you "forget" to pay the VRT on this one as well?
> 
> If so you can treat this post as a gentle reminder.



Listen DB74, I never claimed at any point to have "Forgot" to have paid VRT or any Tax. Perhaps you would be better suited to read what I did say or ask me to clarify what you didnt understand before throughing your opinion unrelated to the OP in there, 

 Im originally from Louth but my wife is from belfast and we have lived in N.I for some years, We bought a guesthouse in 2001 and so all my tax affairs are in N.I. ( UK ) and therefore I am not liable to paying VRT in the south.

But I have in recent years invested in property and other things in the south and always paid Dirt, Stamp and any and every Tax or Duty which had to be paid wheither I agreed with them or not. 

For anyone to attempt to call me a tax cheat is seriously insulting to me givin that I have paid possibly more tax and stamp duty in the south in recent years than I have up in the north here. 

In the reply to the other post where I refer to all the fun and games that went on with the Government down south ( which I see no relivance to this post ) I feel that there should not be such a difference in prices for the same parts, he can get the parts in the US for $360 or somthing about that and to buy here they cost €1200, Thats crazy!!.. and the majority of the €1200 is all tax or vat ect. I struggle to see why he should have to pay Brian Cowans cowboys any import tax for parts he intends to use on his own car, its not as if he was making a massive profit on them by selling them on again ( Like some people obviously were by trying to charge him €1200 here on items that can be bought abroad for $350 USD ). I understand my comments might have been a little insencitive to any fina fail supporters ect but its my opinion that he should not have to pay import duty on some item for personal use!.. some may disagree and I accept that but its my opinion on that issue, If its law and the tax has to be paid then so be it, it has to be paid. but im just of the opinion it shouldnt, Not saying I would refuse to pay it just saying I dont agree with it.

I would just like to clarify again, I AM NOT and have never been in my life a tax cheat or have I ever avoided VRT due to the fact it does not apply to me..


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

Where are the stone throwers now?


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## Eamonn T (7 Sep 2010)

mathepac said:


> Let me take a wild guess here. Would the need to pay €4.5k in VRT on importing and registering the car in your name have any bearing on the poor memory, or is that just my cynical side showing?
> 
> If OP was NI-based the garage would have registered the V5 in OP's name on purchase, so that probably means the car was bought as a personal export with the V5 handed over at point of sale. (Just noticed OP's location says Co. Louth)
> 
> I agree it's not acceptable that you or your wife should have to be on the receiving end of abuse from the purchaser, but it's also not acceptable that the car be driven around with no VRT or tax paid on it in this country, thus abusing our taxation laws. I guess the old saying about birds of a feather might apply here.



I am very much NI based and have been for some years im origianly a Louth man however, but I am exempt from paying VRT in the south as I live in N.I. now and my tax affairs are all here. I took the car to this garage back in April I think to get some repairs done and have it MOT'd and to get the garage to also Tax the car for me as I was out of the country. When I collected the car upon my return the V5 was in the glove box with the garage owners name on it, he told me to simply fill in my details and post it back to them but I forgot about it.

I hope this clarifys that I have NOT abused any southern tax laws as you suspected.


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## SparkRite (7 Sep 2010)

DiGiTaL said:


> I think the OP is looking for advice on his predicamint, not a lecture on the rights and wrongs of paying VRT.



+1

Its "nice" to see that the moral police are still alive and well on AAM.


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## enoxy (7 Sep 2010)

I think if all AAM'ers were as long winded in their posts as the OP, the whole system would grind to a halt. I bet he has this fancy dictation software - who has the time to write such lengthy posts!!




Eamonn T said:


> Listen DB74, I never claimed at any point to have "Forgot" to have paid VRT or any Tax. Perhaps you would be better suited to read what I did say or ask me to clarify what you didnt understand before throughing your opinion unrelated to the OP in there,
> 
> Im originally from Louth but my wife is from belfast and we have lived in N.I for some years, We bought a guesthouse in 2001 and so all my tax affairs are in N.I. ( UK ) and therefore I am not liable to paying VRT in the south.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Q Public (7 Sep 2010)

SparkRite said:


> +1
> 
> Its "nice" to see that the moral police are still alive and well on AAM.



Indeed. Ned Flanders and the "Won't someone please think of the children" brigade must be proud of themselves right now.


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## Tinker Bell (7 Sep 2010)

A fellow recently got into dire straights with the government for having two addresses. Perhaps, for clarity, you should add NI to Co.Louth.


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## Tinker Bell (7 Sep 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> Where are the stone throwers now?


Celebratin' in Hayes' Hotel. And will be for the rest of the week.


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## mathepac (7 Sep 2010)

Eamonn T said:


> ...  I hope this clarifys that I have NOT abused any southern tax laws as you suspected.


Actually what I did was ask a question out of puzzlement at the situation as outlined originally, thanks for the clarification. I stand over my musings and comments based on the information provided in the OP and your request for input.

BTW, those "southern tax laws" may be relevant in Cork & Kerry; the ones I try to abide by are Irish


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## mathepac (7 Sep 2010)

Tinker Bell said:


> Celebratin' in Hayes' Hotel. And will be for the rest of the week.


Any fallers yet or are ye good for a few more days of it?  Up Tipp!!


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## Eamonn T (7 Sep 2010)

mathepac said:


> BTW, those "southern tax laws" may be relevant in Cork & Kerry; the ones I try to abide by are Irish



Im sorry I wasnt aware that Cork & Kerry had different tax laws to the rest of the republic!!... By southern Tax Laws I obviously ment the tax laws of the Republic.. I did ask other AAMers for their input on the situation but I dont think I asked for any input or advice on any Tax, VRT issues If you had a question out of puzzlement as you say, simply ask it but instead you jumped the gun completly and assumed I was Avoiding tax or VRT in the south for years where you say " *but it's also not acceptable that the car be driven around with no VRT or tax paid on it in this country, thus abusing our taxation laws. I guess the old saying about birds of a feather might apply here* " 

Its quite funny that regardless what a poster asks on AAM there is always someone who finds a way of attaking the OP with an issue completely unrelated to the OP!!..  

Im sorry to sound perhaps confrontational with you but I really take offence to being labled " A Tax Cheat"  by anyone who is not completly in the picture.


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## Staples (7 Sep 2010)

In fairness, you give your location as county Louth.  You;ve contributed to the inferences that some people have drawn.

If you lead people to suspect, correctly or otherwise, that you;re not completely legit, you have to take some responsibility for any consequent commentary.


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## irishmoss (7 Sep 2010)

Did you give the same conflicting story to the buyer?

QUOTE
The vehicle was registered to a garage up north here where I originally purchased the car 

I purchased the car a few years ago in the UK I done a HPI check and it showed up HPI clear


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## Eamonn T (7 Sep 2010)

irishmoss said:


> Did you give the same conflicting story to the buyer?
> 
> QUOTE
> The vehicle was registered to a garage up north here where I originally purchased the car
> ...



Yes he was aware of the fact the vehicle was registered to the garage and the story was fully explained to him, he was also aware that the vehicle showed up HPI clear when I purchased it and I even give him the HPI report along with the cars full service history and all the booklets ect.


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## DrMoriarty (7 Sep 2010)

All right, my son... now are you, or are you not in the market for a 
suitable replacement for this fine vehicle, eh?


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## irishmoss (8 Sep 2010)

This is so confusing.
Did you buy the car in the UK as stated by you?
I purchased the car a few years ago in the UK 

If so have you some relationship with the garage for them to have put their name down as the owners?

Before you sold the car why did you not register it in your name?

That should have been done if you were the seller.

If the buyer has issues with the car and the last owners as detailed on the log book was a garage then I can understand why he might try and sue the garage


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## dmb (8 Sep 2010)

irishmoss said:


> This is so confusing.
> Did you buy the car in the UK as stated by you?
> I purchased the car a few years ago in the UK
> 
> ...



Its not very confusing at all irishmoss but alot of posters seem to be trying to make it alot more complicated than it actually is with wild accusations!.. If you read post #25 the OP already has answered what you say confuses you. I cant believe the crap that has been thrown at the OP for doing nothing rong!!!.. He gets accused of being a Tax Cheat and slammed by so many "do gooders" its actually sickining because he has done absolutly nothing rong apart from being a bit of a push over in striking a deal with this conman!..
He asked for some helpful advice for the situation he is in but has got lectures on Tax evasion, fraud, and what seems to be anything and everthing that has no relivance to his situation,
 Eamonn, Take my advice, close the thread as you seem to have genuinly expected to get helpfull advice for your unfortunite situation from other members but as usual you aint gonna get much helpfull advice on this site, only stone throwers and some people suffering from paranoia worried that you maybe didnt pay as much tax as they had too and have to stick the Tax knife in to you even when it has little or nothing to do with your situation !..


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Sep 2010)

moved from Cars and Motoring


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## micmclo (8 Sep 2010)

You are a private seller so there Sale of Goods, Supply of Services Act doesn't apply to you.
The buyer has no comeback

However, you did sell the car and it wasn't even registered to you.
So I'm not suprised the garage were the ones who received the solicitors letter.
The buyer may end up sueing the dealer as they were the registered owner and the garage will pass the buck to you

It's a mess.

I don't know about a V5 but next time you buy or sell a car you post the certificate to Shannon on the day in the presence of the other party. It's not something you "forget"

And don't be a pushover. You gave into all the demands so the buyer doesn't respect you and thinks they can get away with anything.
Some people just aren't tough enough to negotiate, I'm know I'm not much good at it 
Maybe your brother could handle your car sales in future


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## Staples (8 Sep 2010)

Shannon doesn't apply.  The car was sold from Northern Ireland and it's the current owner's responsibility to register and pay VRT.

As an aside, do you have contact details for the current owner in Dublin.  I'd like to contract his haggling services the next time I'm buying a car.


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## Ceist Beag (8 Sep 2010)

Brendan Burgess said:


> moved from Cars and Motoring



Why Brendan when the OP can't post here? I think that is unfair, especially given the accusations aimed at him in this thread.


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## Joe Q Public (8 Sep 2010)

Agreed.


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## irishmoss (8 Sep 2010)

DMB
It is confusing. He bought the car *a few years ago* yet he leaves it into a garage to get it taxed in April this year
Sorry but I'm still confused, did he drice the car untaxed for a few years or was it taxed by the garage while he was driving it?
Maybe I'm not reading this right I don't know but it doesn't look right to me.


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## dereko1969 (8 Sep 2010)

I'm one of the do-gooders who questioned the OPs motives. Given that he gave his location as Louth refers to "up north" and the UK as a foreign jurisdiction to where he currently lives this was all to my mind indicating that he was living in Louth, purchased the car in the UK and used exclusively in the Republic. I could only go on what he posted, given the length of his posting those salient points might have been included there. So I'm not going to apologise for bringing those points up.

By the way I also agree that this should be moved back to the main board so that the OP can respond.


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## Purple (8 Sep 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> I'm one of the do-gooders who questioned the OPs motives. Given that he gave his location as Louth refers to "up north" and the UK as a foreign jurisdiction to where he currently lives this was all to my mind indicating that he was living in Louth, purchased the car in the UK and used exclusively in the Republic. I could only go on what he posted, given the length of his posting those salient points might have been included there. So I'm not going to apologise for bringing those points up.
> 
> By the way I also agree that this should be moved back to the main board so that the OP can respond.



Well said.


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## Pique318 (8 Sep 2010)

Regardless of where the OP is located, or what his tax liabilities are....

How desperately did he want to get rid of the car if he rolled over sooo many times to the arrogant and unreasonable demands of a pushy buyer ?


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## Staples (8 Sep 2010)

Pique318 said:


> Regardless of where the OP is located, or what his tax liabilities are....
> 
> How desperately did he want to get rid of the car if he rolled over sooo many times to the arrogant and unreasonable demands of a pushy buyer ?


 
What's that got to do with anything?


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