# Finian McGrath - the pro smoking TD?



## Binomial (27 Apr 2011)

During the GE campaign I pointed out Independent TD Finian McGrath's pro smoking tendencies. 

I see he is now promoting smoking again this time in Leinster House. *Dáil Éireann - 20/Apr/2011 Written Answers - Smoking Ban*

And *TD claims HSE is 'harassing' pub punters over smoking area* in which he urges the HSE to be a "little bit more flexible". In my view such "flexibility" is tantamount to reintroduce smoking into bars.

Did any one catch his interview with Matt Cooper on Today FM this afternoon? How did he square his concerns about health (and in particular lung disease) with his pro smoking stance?

BiN


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## horusd (28 Apr 2011)

I'll wait for the video of him and Ming sharing a toke at the back of Leinster House, or a set of Greenhouses appearing on the register of Members Interests, or him rolling a ciggie in the Dail chamber, then the cat will be out of the bag.


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## Binomial (27 Jul 2011)

I see that this pro smoking independant spoke in the Dail recently in favour of allowing smoking in certain parts of bars?

*McGrath criticises 'nanny state' over smoking constraints *The Irish Times - Saturday, July 16, 2011MICHAEL O'REGAN





			
				IT said:
			
		

> Mr McGrath said his position was that designated smoking areas in all pubs was a sensible and fair solution.





Binomial said:


> How does he square his concerns about health  (and in  particular lung disease) with his pro smoking stance?


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## thedaras (27 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> i'll wait for the video of him and ming sharing a toke at the back of leinster house, or a set of greenhouses appearing on the register of members interests, or him rolling a ciggie in the dail chamber, then the cat will be out of the bag.


lol.:d


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## T McGibney (28 Jul 2011)

What's the problem with McGrath (or anyone else) expressing their opinion on this topic?


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## horusd (28 Jul 2011)

I think McGrath's got a point, people should be allowed to make personal choices to smoke or not. And, if people want to smoke in bars, they should be accomodated. A hatch on a wall to hand the booze thro should be enough. They shouldn't be banished to the four winds (and horizontal rains) if they want a fag.


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## Complainer (28 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> A hatch on a wall to hand the booze thro should be enough. They shouldn't be banished to the four winds (and horizontal rains) if they want a fag.


I thought we went through all these silly arguements in 2004. How can a landlord maintain good order in the pub if there is an area where his staff can't enter. How can he keep it clean and safe? It is unworkable.


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## Sunny (28 Jul 2011)

Does anyone want to go back to the days of smoking in bars? Vast majority of smokers I know don't even want that.


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## horusd (28 Jul 2011)

No I wouldn't want smoking in bars/cafes etc. I was in a few places abroad with smoking and it's disgusting. But I think maybe they should have a "room" of some kind. 

It's not beyond ingenuity to come up with a reasonable solution that suits everyone. I think that the anti -smoking extremists set the agenda is to punish smokers as pariahs. Personally I think ordinary folk are more reasonable and don't get so het up about it.


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## Sunny (28 Jul 2011)

If you a have a nice comfy room though, you will never get them out of it. At least I know when I am out with smokers now, they will always come back. Especially in the winter!


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## horusd (28 Jul 2011)

Sunny said:


> If you a have a nice comfy room though, you will never get them out of it. At least I know when I am out with smokers now, they will always come back. Especially in the winter!


 
Lol. you know I heard that the smoking areas in  bars are the best for "pick ups." There's a name for it, but I can't remember what it's called.  "Got a light ?"...could be the beginning of something beautiful.


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## horusd (28 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> I thought we went through all these silly arguements in 2004. *How can a landlord maintain good order in the pub if there is an area where his staff can't enter*. How can he keep it clean and safe? It is unworkable.


 

A double barrelled sawn-off and a hose. used in that order.


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## Sunny (28 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> Lol. you know I heard that the smoking areas in bars are the best for "pick ups." There's a name for it, but I can't remember what it's called. "Got a light ?"...could be the beginning of something beautiful.


 
Apparently it is called smirting!


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## monagt (28 Jul 2011)

T McGibney said:


> What's the problem with McGrath (or anyone else) expressing their opinion on this topic?



+1

I don't agree with smoking in cars with children or in undesignated areas for health reasons but its still a free country.


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## Binomial (28 Jul 2011)

T McGibney said:


> What's the problem with McGrath (or anyone else) expressing their opinion on this topic?



Nothing, in fact its a good thing that the views of elected representatives are expressed and challenged in our democracy. 

If this prosmoking TD is successful in convincing his fellow parlimentarians perhaps he will succeed in his stated aim of reintroducing smoking in pubs.



Binomial said:


> How does he square his concerns about health  (and in  particular lung disease) with his pro smoking stance?


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## horusd (29 Jul 2011)

Binomial;1162678[B said:
			
		

> ]...How did he square his concerns about health (and in particular lung disease) with his pro smoking stance?[/B]
> 
> BiN


 
Well, one is a health issue and one is a "rights" issue I assume. It's not impossible to take different stances on both. 

I certainly think there is an agenda abroad to demonize smokers that reaches beyond just enforcing a health issue. Anti smoking groups come across as fanatical in some respects. 

Under the guise of the motto "for your own good" they often try to run a coach & four through people's rights to make personal choices which they, the anti smoking lobby, disapprove of.


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> Well, one is a health issue and one is a "rights" issue I assume. It's not impossible to take different stances on both.
> 
> I certainly think there is an agenda abroad to demonize smokers that reaches beyond just enforcing a health issue. Anti smoking groups come across as fanatical in some respects.
> 
> Under the guise of the motto "for your own good" they often try to run a coach & four through people's rights to make personal choices which they, the anti smoking lobby, disapprove of.


Most of the anti-smoking agenda is not really about 'for your own good'. It is about 'for my own good', i.e. not allowing your personal addiction to infringe on my life, as often happens when walking down a street, or waiting for the Luas or queueing for the ATM, or sitting in my back garden, or sitting in my daughter's bedroom with the window open, or at the Roger Daltrey's gig in a tent in Marlay (despite a plea from the artist, who has recovered from throat cancer, and mentioned that he is highly allergic to smoke now).


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## horusd (29 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> Most of the anti-smoking agenda is not really about 'for your own good'. It is about 'for my own good', i.e. not allowing your personal addiction to infringe on my life, as often happens when walking down a street, or waiting for the Luas or queueing for the ATM, or sitting in my back garden, or sitting in my daughter's bedroom with the window open, or at the Roger Daltrey's gig in a tent in Marlay (despite a plea from the artist, who has recovered from throat cancer, and mentioned that he is highly allergic to smoke now).


 
I think there is an over-emphasis on smoking and relative harm. There is probably more pollutants in the ambiant urban atmosphere around traffic. It's just perhaps not so obvious. A bit of reasonableness wouldn't go amiss. 

Personally if someone is smoking a pipe or a cigar outside, I make a point of sitting near them as I love the smell.


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> I think there is an over-emphasis on smoking and relative harm. There is probably more pollutants in the ambiant urban atmosphere around traffic. It's just perhaps not so obvious. A bit of reasonableness wouldn't go amiss.


So it is unreasonable of me to expect to enjoy fresh air in my own back garden, or in my daughter's bedroom? I'm not talking about 'relative harm' here - it's just a bloody awful smell that gets into my skin and my clothes.



horusd said:


> Personally if someone is smoking a pipe or a cigar outside, I make a point of sitting near them as I love the smell.


I quite like cigar or pipe smoke too, as it happens. Unfortunatly, neither of my neighbours and none of the folk milling around me at Roger Daltrey were smoking pipes or cigars.


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## horusd (29 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> *So it is unreasonable of me to expect to enjoy fresh air in my own back garden, or in my daughter's bedroom*? I'm not talking about 'relative harm' here - it's just a bloody awful smell that gets into my skin and my clothes.


 
Did you ask the neighbours to not smokein the garden? Not being smart Complainer, just wondering if you did, and what reaction you got.

PS: No, don't suppose you are being unreasonable BTW. But I think there could be  a bit of give and take generally.


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## Sunny (29 Jul 2011)

I want to know what freak is smoking outside Complainers daughters window!


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> Did you ask the neighbours to not smokein the garden? Not being smart Complainer, just wondering if you did, and what reaction you got.


No, I haven't. I respect their rights to their garden.


Sunny said:


> I want to know what freak is smoking outside Complainers daughters window!


Next door neighbours on both sides smoking in their back garden is distinctly noticeable in back bedrooms, when windows are open.


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## horusd (29 Jul 2011)

Sunny said:


> I want to know what freak is smoking outside Complainers daughters window!


 

I was thinkin they were very brave. The chances of em living long enough to die of cancer seems remote!


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## Firefly (29 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> Next door neighbours on both sides smoking in their back garden is distinctly noticeable in back bedrooms, when windows are open.



Sure they weren't just lighting BBQs?


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## liaconn (29 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> No, I haven't. I respect their rights to their garden.
> 
> Next door neighbours on both sides smoking in their back garden is distinctly noticeable in back bedrooms, when windows are open.


 
My next door neighbour is nearly always out smoking on his balcony when I'm sitting out on mine. They're only separated by a thin sheet of wood so he might as well be on my balcony. I know he's legally entitled to do it, but its bloody inconsiderate, especially if we're eating out there. It's not just one cigarette either, he'll light up, I'll go inside, come back out after about ten minutes, sit there for another few minutes, and then he'll light up again.


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## Binomial (29 Jul 2011)

As the Original Poster can i steer the topic back .



Binomial said:


> How does he (Finian McGrath) square his concerns about health (and in particular lung disease) with his pro smoking stance?


 
The prosmoking TD Finian McGrath clearly states on the record of the Dail his preferred "_solution"_ involving the reintroducion of smoking in bars.

I am wondering how he can square his commendable work on behalf lung disease sufferers and his high profile support for smoking?


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## The_Banker (29 Jul 2011)

I noticed in an earlier post on this thread that the some of the debate centred on "for your own good" or "for my own good". I’m thinking that the reasoning being that non smokers think that they are entitled to lecture people on their health and smokers are of the opinion that it is their body and what they do to it is their business and no one else’s. 
Fair enough, I can see both sides.

However, as a non smoker I would like to put another angle on it. No one smokes in isolation. And I don’t mean that they can go off to an isolated room and smoke to their hearts content and affect no one else.
Sooner or later a smoker is going to suffer health issues because of their smoking. The suffering may be small, loss of breath, cough etc or it will be large... COPD, cancer.

The smoker may feel, well I smoked and I will suffer the consequences but unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. There are also consequences for the smokers’ family. Having to watch a family member long slow decent into ill health and ultimately death is a horrifying thing to watch and experience. Especially if it is happening to someone you love and cherish.
Lung cancer is a slow, lingering and horrible death and while a family member is suffering with it the rest of the family are suffering with them, watching, helping and trying to cope while the person slowly expires.

It starts slowly; cough, unable to run for the bus, loss of breath at the slightest exertion. Then going to doctors for diagnosis and being told that they have COPD or cancer. Having to be with that family member after they have had a lung removed and having them wonder if they will survive.
When the bad news comes and they are told the cancer has spread you have to be there with them and travelling with them to the hospice while assuring them that it is only for a rest while secretly both of you know that it isn’t the case.

So if you think that by smoking you are only hurting yourself, think again. It impacts those around you and those who love you even if they never have to inhale or smell the smoke you breathe in.


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## horusd (29 Jul 2011)

@ The Banker. There's nothing to disagree with in your post as to the affects & effects of smoking. But people do all sorts of things bad for them and others. 

Alcoholism, drugs, sex and food addictions, all of these have consequences for others indirectly, as well as themselves.The point is tho, that people have a right to do certain things as adults, stupid or otherwise, and it's wrong to rob them of that choice and responsibility. Freedom (at some level) is a neccessary part of humanity. Even if it's freedom to do an ostensibily wrong thing.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> @ The Banker. There's nothing to disagree with in your post as to the affects & effects of smoking. But people do all sorts of things bad for them and others.
> 
> Alcoholism, drugs, sex and food addictions, all of these have consequences for others indirectly, as well as themselves.The point is tho, that people have a right to do certain things as adults, stupid or otherwise, and it's wrong to rob them of that choice and responsibility. Freedom (at some level) is a neccessary part of humanity. Even if it's freedom to do an ostensibily wrong thing.



Big +1 to that.


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## The_Banker (30 Jul 2011)

horusd said:


> @ The Banker. There's nothing to disagree with in your post as to the affects & effects of smoking. But people do all sorts of things bad for them and others.
> 
> Alcoholism, drugs, sex and food addictions, all of these have consequences for others indirectly, as well as themselves.The point is tho, that people have a right to do certain things as adults, stupid or otherwise, and it's wrong to rob them of that choice and responsibility. Freedom (at some level) is a neccessary part of humanity. Even if it's freedom to do an ostensibily wrong thing.



I agree with you horusd.


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## Binomial (18 Nov 2012)

I heard  _*pro-smoking TD Finian McGrath*_ on Newstalk during the week dissing Senator Professor John Crown for his proposal to ban smoking in Leinster House.



> I’m pleasantly surprised and delighted that the Oireachtas committee has  shown some common sense to all the staff in the Dáil and the minority  of Oireachtas members. I would now ask for Professor Crown to cop on and show a bit more respect to the 30 per cent of  the Irish population who smoke.





The_Banker said:


> Lung cancer is a slow,  lingering and horrible death and while a family member is suffering with  it the rest of the family are suffering with them, watching, helping  and trying to cope while the person slowly expires.



I just find it very difficult to see how this TD can square his commendable work on behalf of sufferers of lung disease and his virulent pro smoking stance.


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## Leper (18 Nov 2012)

I have never "pulled" a cigarette let alone smoked one. I never objected to anybody smoking either. When Michéal Martin introduced the ban-on-smoking in pubs, hospitals, etc (prisons excepted, strangely enough!) I felt for the older people having to go onto the street for a cigarette whether it was raining or not. 

The no smoking ban in pubs is about as effective as a glass hammer. Every pub, hotel, sheebeen, has an "outside" area in which smokers can congregate and drink. These areas have become so popular that non-smokers are using them as much as the smokers. To be a little coarse, I understand a gent has a better chance of meeting a lady in a smoking area.

But, the vitriolic campaign against smokers has backfired. Still, we have a huge cigarette smoking population. The ciggies have got so expensive (Le Grande Deterrent) that smokers have largely turned to buying illegal cigarettes or legally importing cigarettes from abroad. The taxpayer now gets little or no return from smoking.sp 

There's something wrong somewhere. Perhaps there's an argument for reducing the price of a packet of fags?

For the Record:- Sorry to those non smokers (even on balconies) who have to endure some of the smoke from next door.


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## Binomial (4 Mar 2015)

Does anyone know how pro smoking TD Finian McGrath voted on the Plain Pack Bill?


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## Binomial (5 Mar 2015)

http://shar.es/1WNxh0 according to the herald he spoke against the measure in an ill informed rant. I don't know how he voted.

It is really strange considering the great work he does on behalf of sufferers of lung diseases such as CF and ILF (idiopathic lung fibrosis).


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