# Driving around in a NI reg vehicle. VRT Customs called to my home



## 25111981elai (19 Jan 2010)

I wonder can anyone help me, I'm driving around in a northern reg vehicle the customs have landed to my house and asked us to change the vehicle over the VRT on our vehicle is €2,000. 
my husband is on JSA and i'm a dependent adult on his claim, we have 2 children. 

We can't afford this at present, we asked could we set up a DD for a year to pay in for it and they didn't want to know. we Have a mortgage, car loan and credit union loans out, we can't get a loan because we are both not working.

can anyone help on what i can do in relation to the customs and VRT.

Thanks


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## RonanC (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

You are required by law to pay VRT charges on an imported car *within 24 hours of bringing it into the country*. 

You are not permitted to drive around on a Northern Irish registered car under any circumstances. 

You must pay the VRT.


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## helllohello (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Do you still have the car? are you able to take it back north and sell it?


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## shesells (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

To be honest you're lucky they didn't impound the car there and then! As others have posted, it is a legal requirement to pay the VRT, no way round it.


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## MaryBe (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



25111981elai said:


> We can't afford this at present,


 Does that mean that you bought the car knowing that you could not afford the VRT and expect to avoid paying it?  

As RonanC said 

"You are required by law to pay VRT charges on an imported car *within 24 hours of bringing it into the country*. 

You are not permitted to drive around on a Northern Irish registered car under any circumstances. 

You must pay the VRT"

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but many of us could use the same situation to get a cheap car!


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## RMCF (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Sorry but you are in the wrong and must pay it. 

As mentioned, others have had cars impounded with no warning, so you are relatively lucky. 

I know of a person who had to pay a €1k fine AND the €4k VRT they were dodging.


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## mercman (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

And I now someone (Irish) that had two cars impounded even though they had the foreign registered cars legally. And they only got them back after weeks of them proving their case


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## tillyfloss (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Hi, 
How long have you owned the car for? and did you buy the car as an Irish resident?
I thought that if you had owned the car for at least 6 months(double check) before residing in the Republic that there was no duty to be paid..However, if you were already living here and purchased the car then of course you would be liable for the relevent duty.


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## shesells (19 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

http://www.vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=21


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## gebbel (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



25111981elai said:


> can anyone help on what i can do in relation to the customs and VRT.
> 
> Thanks


 
Yes, you can pay up. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## lionstour (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Ok so the woman has not paid the VRT.  But is it necessary to be so harsh.  She is obviously in a state, she has a few kids and is in dire financial difficulty.  You say pay up? With what exactly?  The only solution is to take the car back to the North and try and get a few quid for it and then buy an old banger down south


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## lionstour (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



MaryBM said:


> Does that mean that you bought the car knowing that you could not afford the VRT and expect to avoid paying it?
> 
> As RonanC said
> 
> ...


 
You do sound harsh, and unnecessary, the woman wants advice not a drawn out lecture about the morality of her situation.


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## babaduck (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

There is *no simple solution* to your problem - you are legally obliged to pay the VRT within 24 hours of importing the vehicle and if you don't you're breaking the law.  There's no nice way to get around this.  Customs & Excise are perfectly entitled to seize the vehicle or insist you pay what's due.  

I'm sorry you are in dire straits financially - we're not too far off it ourselves, but my car was a ROI purchase with the VAT paid for - if I went to the UK or to NI, I know that I'd have to cough up the VRT as part of the deal for any car.  And to be honest, I'd say you knew that you when you took the chance...


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## jhegarty (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Selling the car to pay the VRT looks like the only option.


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## gebbel (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

OK so some of the replies, my own included, have been a little harsh, but all point to the reality of the situation: not having a job etc. is not an excuse to drive a northern reg car down here without paying the VRT.


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## lionstour (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



jhegarty said:


> Selling the car to pay the VRT looks like the only option.


 
If she sells the car will she still have to pay the vrt?


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## tosullivan (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

where is the op?  Posts yesterday in a panic and not got back yet

lucky the car wasn't impounded aswell...


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## jhegarty (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



lionstour said:


> If she sells the car will she still have to pay the vrt?




Yes, once you have been caught it's too late to just sell.


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## lionstour (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



jhegarty said:


> Yes, once you have been caught it's too late to just sell.


 

Whats the worst case senario for her if she sells up and does not pay the VRT?


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## shesells (20 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



tosullivan said:


> where is the op?  Posts yesterday in a panic and not got back yet
> 
> lucky the car wasn't impounded aswell...



If you check the OP's post history it reveals a bit more of the story.


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## Pique318 (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

lol


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## gebbel (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



shesells said:


> If you check the OP's post history it reveals a bit more of the story.


 
It sure does...enough said!


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## Buddyg (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



> If you check the OP's post history it reveals a bit more of the story.


 
Puts things in an even worse light. How could somebody with a family be so reckless with their money. 

Sell the car and pay up.


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## jhegarty (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



lionstour said:


> Whats the worst case senario for her if she sells up and does not pay the VRT?




A trip in front of a Judge I presume.

Can't imagine the court showing much simplify if the car has been sold.


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## tosullivan (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



shesells said:


> If you check the OP's post history it reveals a bit more of the story.


no sympathy then....FREELOADER

glad they got caught...


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## Firefly (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

A troll perhaps?


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## chrisboy (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



Firefly said:


> A troll perhaps?



Yep exactly.


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## mercman (21 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



shesells said:


> If you check the OP's post history it reveals a bit more of the story.



Have done, thanks for advising. I echo all the sentiments already stated. I'm not able and don't want to provide anything else on a Public Forum.


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## dmb (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



jhegarty said:


> A trip in front of a Judge I presume.
> 
> Can't imagine the court showing much simplify if the car has been sold.


 
Actually, Providing Revenue Customs Patrol did not sieze the vehicle from you which i presume they didnt as they cannot do so by calling to your home ( They have to stop you in a public place inorder to make a seizure of a vehicle, not by calling to your door ), you are perfectly intitled to sell the vehicle outside the state ( ie NI or UK ) as it is your vehicle. You cannot sell the vehicle to another residant of the Rep of Ireland without first paying the VRT however, So " VRT is not still payable " if you sell the vehicle outside the state and there will be no need to worry about a " trip in front of a Judge " as sugested, which is a crazy statement to make really to a woman who, finding herself in a difficult situation is only seeking a little bit of honest advice and not assumptions from members who may actually be able to help her out with her situation which im sure she is aware of is mostly of her & her husbands own making, so no need to be quite so harsh with replys to this womans post as anyone is capable of a mistake or oversight. I have spent a number of years in the motor trade in the Rep of Ireland border reigions so im firmillar with VRT rules and regulations.  If you choose to be foolish and sell the vehicle to another residant of this state you are liable to a fine of up to €1900. Obviously by buying the vehicle without being able to afford the VRT was not a very good idea but whats done is done and as the say, once bitten twice shy, and the best advice I can give is avoid falling on the wrong side of the Customs as they have a job to do and siezing unpaid VRT vehicles is an easy part of the job. I think most people would agree that VRT being deemed an illegal charge by the EU, is an unfair tax on the Irish Consumer and givin the current economic climate and the financial situation of many unfortunit citizens, surely, it would be in the best interest of everyone involved ( The Revenue & The Poster, all VRT payers) if the The Revenue Commisioners set up a " Pay by Installments " programme of some sort. Never the less VRT should be kept in mind when buying a Northern Ireland or UK vehicle as unfortunitly, It has to be paid within 24hrs.

Shaun


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## jhegarty (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



dmb said:


> So " VRT is not still payable " if you sell the vehicle outside the state and there will be no need to worry about a " trip in front of a Judge " as sugested, which is a crazy statement to make really to a woman .....



But she has been caught with the car in Ireland for over 24 hours.

Are you 100% sure the potential €5,000 fine under section 139 of the 1992 finance act does not apply ?

Can you please link to the exception to this fine if you re-export/sell the car ?


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## dmb (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

Yes, I understand that she has been caught and ADVISED to pay the VRT possibly within a set amount of time or risk siezure and possible fines so on, however they have only advised her at this point, and the car is still hers and in her possession, if she wishes to sell or remove the vehicle outside the state within usually 7 days she is permitted to do so. 
Please read Section 5.5.5 of the Revenue Document linked, you will see the exception to the fine by removing or reselling the vehicle outside the state:-
www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/.../*vehicle*.../*vrt*-manual-section-5.pdf -

As for the €5000 fine, you may be correct on that, how I understand it from reading my Revenue Motor Trader VRT booklet, If a person is found in possesion of a vehicle where the VRT has gone undeclared for more than 1 month the person may be subject to a fine by the revenue commissioner, depending on the time scale the vehicle has been illegally used in a public place within the state, this fine can range from 2.5% to 10% of the OMSP or Min €60 to a Max fine up to €1900 and is applied with the discresion of the local VRO officer and payable at the local VRO. 
It may well be the case that this Max fine of up to €1900 is treated as an on the spot fine of some sorts and perhaps if you fail to pay this on the spot fine to your VRO, you may be subject to a potential €5,000 through the courts. However, from my expeirance this fine is usually only applied as a large fine to people who have a previous history of undeclaring VRT on vehicles but not always the case. The usual protocol is, you get a warning to pay the VRT, if the VRT goes unpaid the vehicle may be siezed if stoped in a public place. It will be taken to, usually the nearest garda station and impounded, after a few days the vehicle will be released to you, usually on paying some sort of fine and the impound fee by the Customs Patrol officer. They will issue you with a demand to pay the VRT within 7 days or risk the vehicles siezure again with a larger fine. They also advise you that you may remove or sell the vehicle outside the state within 7 days if you wish.

Shaun


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## Bronte (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

I thought ye guys were real harsh on the OP but based on the one previous post is it correct that the OP had a perfectly good job in the North for 6 years, gave it up while pregnant and worked in the South for 2 weeks in order to claim social welfare in the South (where benefits are better).  Meanwhile based on said original job took out a mortgage, loans etc and is now after bringing in a car from the North knowing full well that if caught they would get caught for VRT.  I wouldn't know the rules off hand on this but anyone working North/South would be well aware so it would be extremely hard to have any sympathy.

I suppose that because of the special South/UK arrangements benefits are very flexible and the OP did reside in the South so naturally wished to avail of the better benefits, I would do the same.

With the price of cars reducing in the South is it still cheaper to buy cars in the North?  I've noticed a few foreign nationals driving cars but I assume that they are not liable to VRT as they can bring in a car legitimately having lived in another EU country and owned the car for 6 months prior to moving to Ireland?


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## roker (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

If you are living in the North or UK and move residence to the republic, I thought that there was no VRT if you had owned the car for 6 months or year, not sure, and did not sell it for 6 months after moving.
Is this not the Irish government flaunting the EU rules anyway?


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## shesells (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



roker said:


> If you are living in the North or UK and move residence to the republic, I thought that there was no VRT if you had owned the car for 6 months or year, not sure, and did not sell it for 6 months after moving.
> Is this not the Irish government flaunting the EU rules anyway?



see the link I posted on page 1 of the this thread


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## dmb (22 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*



roker said:


> If you are living in the North or UK and move residence to the republic, I thought that there was no VRT if you had owned the car for 6 months or year, not sure, and did not sell it for 6 months after moving.
> Is this not the Irish government flaunting the EU rules anyway?


 
Yes, that is correct, if you have priviously resided within an EU ( Not all countries are included in this agreement ) country for at least 6 months ( some countries require 12 minimum residancy ) you can apply for a VRT exeption. 
However you will need to prove your case well and have proof of the period you spend as residant of the state you are transfering from and also proof that you owned this vehicle in that state for atleast 6 months. They are very strict on this and dont back down to exeptions easily.

And yes, according to the EU ruling, VRT is an illegal tax under the EU treaty but the government, although having to pay a fine to the EU anually for applying VRT on its citizens, are making too much money from it so its a case of " well worth paying the fine "!.. 
The total collection of VRT for 2008 was in the region of €1.8bn, even though its gone down €185 million in 2009, when you think about the fine I think being in the region of €50 million per year, it still makes it worth while for the govenment to enforce VRT.


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## idler (23 Jan 2010)

*Re: VRT Customs Called to my Home*

if some one in household  has disability i think vrt can be waverd     (not 100% sure)


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