# Could Injured worker  have got wrong training?



## greengrass64 (28 Mar 2011)

Hi everyone.

A service engineer was working on a machine, and got a nasty injury. 
His employer claims he was given sufficient training as he attended a Safe Pass course about 6 months ago. I must admit I know nothing about Safe Pass courses , but have discovered there are/were two types, one seems to be for construction workers, and the other is for electricians and people carrying out mechanical repairs. This service engineer did the Safe Pass course for construction workers. I suggested to him, there is a possiblity he was sent to the wrong course, and perhaps he was not trained correctly. 

Does anybody know anything about the different safe pass courses. Could the service engineer have received the wrong course? 
If it was the wrong course, it may make the employer liable?


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## Kerak (29 Mar 2011)

There are two Safe pass courses as you describe, but they are "awareness" courses never intended to replace specific training . Using them as a defense is pointless.
However, if employed as a Service engineer , what where his qualifications prior to the employment, as that has more bearing.


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## greengrass64 (29 Mar 2011)

Hi Kerak, 
At present.I am not aware of his qualifications


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## Kerak (29 Mar 2011)

Safe Pass or Safe Pass for mechanical/electrical crafts apply to construction, local authority and site security only. The mechanical/electrical version seems to have been a bit of a non runner.

 FaS WEBSITE 
"The FÁS Safe Pass Health and Safety Awareness Training Programme is to ensure that, over the course of time, all workers in construction will have a basic knowledge of health and safety, and be able to work on-site without being a risk to themselves or others who might be affected by their acts or omissions."
"Part 1, Section 4 of the Safety Health and Welfare at Work (Construction) Regulations 2006 provides details on the categories of workers that recognise a Safety Awareness Registration Card. Construction apprentices registered under the Standards Based Apprenticeship Scheme, and trainees undergoing traineeships in the Construction Industry are also required to have a Safety Awareness Registration Card."

2006 Construction Regs extract

4- Application 
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), these Regulations apply to and in relation to construction work. 
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), Schedule 3 applies to - 
(a) craft and general construction workers, 
(b) persons undertaking on-site security work, and 
(c) persons or classes of persons as may be prescribed by the Minister. 

(3) Schedule 3 does not apply to a person involved in the installation, commissioning, maintenance, repair or removal of mechanical, electrical, gas, compressed air, hydraulic, telecommunication and computer systems, or similar services, where - 
(a) the person is normally domiciled outside the State, 
(b) the person's normal place of employment is outside the State, and 
(c) the person has not been working on the project for a period in excess of 20 working days in any 12 month period. 

(4) A person mentioned in paragraph (3) shall be in possession of a letter in the English or Irish language from the relevant employer, which letter - 
(a) describes the work to be undertaken, 
(b) states the competence of the person to undertake that work, and 
(c) specifies the commencement date and the anticipated completion date of that work. 
" 
If he’s not in these industries, then safe pass has no mandatory training function.


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## greengrass64 (29 Mar 2011)

Hi Kerak
Thank you for all your help.
I understand the location of the incident may be classed as a construction area, and site rules required him to have a Safe Pass course. If he should have had the other Safe Pass, could the safety guy, and site operator also be held responsible, they should not have left him on site. It would be worth raising that point too. What about Fas, should they have put him on the other course.
.


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## Kerak (29 Mar 2011)

The other Safe pass is/was just an option, either was acceptable, just the mechanical/electrical was more suited to those crafts.
The PSCS rather than the "safety guy" is more responsible if he was working on site with out a safepass, but if he had one either type then it complies with Construction regs. Also its the employers task to train his people or employ people with the necessary skills for the tasks they take on. Hence if his previous skill set included the task he was hurt doing, what extra training or skill should he have acquired, if any?


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## greengrass64 (30 Mar 2011)

Thanks for that, it looks like the employer does have a problem. This Safe Pass course might raise contributory negligence. Of course if he attended an awareness course which was not really for him it might eliminate this possiblity. 

I plan to speak to the injured party later on.


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## Superman (31 Mar 2011)

Depending on the nature of the construction project, there would be a need for a Health and Safety File and a Project Supervisor Construction Stage (PSCS).
If there was an accident, presumably the HSA are currently investigating the matter.
Effectively if a H&S File is present and was correctly implemented and followed, there should be no negligence (it requires one to think of, write out and comply with all the "reasonable steps" of the standard of care in negligence).

You should look at that.


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## greengrass64 (12 May 2011)

Just to let you know this situation is now sorted.


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## PaddyBloggit (13 May 2011)

Any hope of sharing some info on how it was sorted?


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## greengrass64 (16 May 2011)

The solicitor dealing with it told us not to disclose anything about how much was agreed.


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## Complainer (12 Jun 2011)

lawstudent said:


> The solicitor dealing with it told us not to disclose anything about how much was agreed.



Maybe the nice time you should be asking your solicitor all the questions, instead of asking the nice folk here on AAM. It's not nice to take, take, take without a little bit of give. We are an online community here.


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