# Buying holiday home



## Fourteen (27 Sep 2015)

Hope this is the right forum to ask this question.

My hubby & I are recently retired and have a substantial sum between us from lump sums plus savings. We are thinking seriously of buying a 2 bed apartment in a holiday complex in a place where we have holidayed with our family for many, many years. 

The apartment is on offer at a very competitive price and in good condition, fully furnished.
My question is, to all the financial gurus on here, are we mad at our stage in life? We have the disposable income, the apartment would be well used by our children and grandchildren as well as ourselves plus there are other family members with property in the area. 

We both love the area which is in a quiet and beautiful spot with direct access to and beautiful views over the sea. I don't think the apartment could lose any value given the low asking price (owner has to sell). 
At the moment all our money is in equities and we feel a diversification would be better. We would be using less than one-third of our funds to buy the apartment and would not be renting it out.

Is this a daft idea for a couple in their sixties?

PS we own our home outright and have no debts.


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## Thirsty (27 Sep 2015)

Is this property in Ireland? Where do you stay when you holiday there usually?


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## Fourteen (27 Sep 2015)

Yes the property is in Ireland, 80 miles from home. We usually stay in the local hotel or rent a house but would love not to be tied to particular weeks and to be able to come and go as we please.


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## Dermot (27 Sep 2015)

Really the choice is yours. You apparently can afford it. 
You will be liable for a Management Company Fee, Property Tax, Electricity, water charges and internal maintenance/replacement of white goods and furniture which I am sure you have checked out.
You will save on other types of accommodation and have more flexibility all things being equal.
I do not know much about apartments in holiday complex's but I would suspect that the value of the apartment in the future will be linked to the quality of the Management who run the complex.
You say that you are buying it at a very competitive price so downside may be low and you will use it a lot.
I hope you can manage to get priority for yourselves and that all the free loaders do not get vexed with you when they do not get their selected time on the rota for the apartment.


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## Grizzly (28 Sep 2015)

Back in the early 90's we owned a holiday home in Ireland. We loved it at the time. Our children were teenagers and didn't. They wanted to stay in Dublin. It was costly to keep. We never rented it out. When we did the maths we reckoned it was costing us more to stay in our own holiday home than stay in a local hotel. We sold it and broke even.  If we had waited for the Tiger we would have made a great profit. Fast forward 20 years +. Two of our grown up children would still not use it if we still had it. One would, because he has children. We would, but only in the summer months.
Our own tastes have also changed. It is great to be able to hop on a plane and visit different places. Stay in other people's apartments and not have the problem of ownership. Sometimes I would like to have my own place back again but I know it would be a waste of money and I would feel tied to the place.
We investigated purchasing abroad also but we are glad that we didn't now. At least in Ireland it was only a drive away for a quick escape.
Maybe it's my age but I am trying to get rid of "stuff" at the moment rather than adding to it. Then again you're set up is different to mine and it sounds as if it might work for you.


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## Fourteen (28 Sep 2015)

Thank you all for the replies. Grizzly, your experience is very interesting.

We have no interest in foreign property ownership. Our adult children still join us for a weekend or two during our annual stay every year. They all love the area and would definitely make use of a holiday home (we haven't mentioned our interest to them as we'd be under serious pressure!).

I don't know if I'm looking at this through rose tinted glasses but I just love the idea of having my own place where all my own things are waiting and the ease of hopping in the car at the drop of a hat when the forecast is good and not being tied to booked weeks when it could be pouring rain. I know it costs to keep a place of your own that only gets used for 5/6 months of the year but I feel we would get great use out of it between us all. 

The major reservation I have is that we should have done this years ago & we're now too old to get long term value from it given that we are now in our mid 60s but I feel if we kept it for 10 years we would, at worst, break even at that stage. The apartment is in walk-in condition and extremely competitively priced but are we mad to tie up a big chunk of our funds in what could be a big mistake?


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## cremeegg (29 Sep 2015)

Stop over analysing. 

Buy it. Enjoy it!

Come back here in a years time and tell us how wonderful it is.


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## monagt (30 Sep 2015)

My advice is don't do it. 
Funds tied up which you might need.
Go to hotels/apartments and then walk away with no hassles.
Accountant, Taxes (and there are a few), Maintenance, Will.
One may get ill or worse and then what?
Your children will share and use it but when grandchildren  arrive it may end up in total war as they fight to get slots (happened to a colleague of mine)
Go on over Seniors Holidays, different places or a single place if you find somewhere you like.

Look at all options and do a cost benefit on it.


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## Leper (30 Sep 2015)

You're both in your sixties.  You would be daft to buy. Rent abroad for €550 per month for a 2 bedroom property in a southern Spanish resort. You have the option of spending months abroad and months in Ireland.


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## LS400 (30 Sep 2015)

Cremeege has it spot on, your over thinking this. 
There is nothing like loading up the car and moving at your pace. Not having to check availability, staying an extra day/ week how ever long you like, and, as grand parents, your probably more financially relaxed with the grand kids than when you were young parents finding you way through life. Enjoy it, you've done your homework, and remember, you never see a tow bar on a hearse. Life is for living.


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## monagt (30 Sep 2015)

Leper said:


> You're both in your sixties. You would be daft to buy. Rent abroad for €550 per month for a 2 bedroom property in a southern Spanish resort. You have the option of spending months abroad and months in Ireland.


+1



LS400 said:


> Enjoy it, you've done your homework, and remember, you never see a tow bar on a hearse. Life is for living.



But less stress is even better! Simplify not complicate your life


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## Leper (2 Oct 2015)

I don't know if you intend to buy a holiday home in Ireland or abroad.  I did both.  Here is the information nobody will offer (well perhaps with the exception of Purple?).

Holiday Home in Ireland:- We bought in an area that makes the Wild Atlantic Way look like the M50 on a Friday afternoon.  The next parish across the water is Manhattan and our grandchildren swear they can smell the hotdogs being cooked in 57th Street, New York.  The nearest shop is 3 miles distant, but the drive there and back is like an obstacle course.  Think you've seen potholes? You haven't!  Our nearest neighbour is a well known sportsman.  He spent one weekend in his holiday home there in seven years.  Ours is a cottage, his is a new bungalow.  His has more growth now than the Amazon Jungle.  Grass has to be cut, paint has to be renewed, driveway must be nuked for weeds.  Sheep come in and welcome they are. Shout at them and the nearby sheep farmer will have a contract on you.  

The local GAA club expect you to pay into their weekly local Lotto. You become a member of their club too. You must go to Mass in the church six miles distant every Sunday.  Considering staying away is a no-no.  The Parish Priest will welcome you to their parish and before you've got back into your car he hands you a little envelop already with a number on it.

If you turn up with Aldi purchased groceries in Dublin you will be informed that you should have bought the groceries in that aforementioned shop.  If you don't you will be informed of the hardship suffered by the locals if that shop closes for the winter.  For a quiet life you boycott Aldi.

You travel down to the local pub where you have no chance of ever being breathalysed when you leave.  The locals know when the force "car" even leaves the town thirty miles away.  Then after a few pints some local self styled gobshite informs you that because of the likes of you property has increased in price locally and his daughter cannot even get a mortgage.  

When you've sucked in the guilt, you look at the locals in a different light.  Oul' Stock who waves to you from that 1960's safety cageless tractor is really sizing you up. Oh! I forgot to mention rights of way.  All of the locals have rights of way through your property.  Lock your gate and pay the price.

But, you were once welcomed there as a tourist.  Now, you're one of them.  If you fall short they will help.  If you are sick, they will check up on you.  If your car strays into a ditch, they will pull you out. If somebody thinks you are about to be robbed, they will be the first on the scene to prevent the crime. Your grandchildren will be treated like royalty by other kids.  Ensure your wife and daughters can talk openly about their stay in whatever maternity hospital.  

I'll come to owning a holiday home abroad later.  I'm preparing to launch another expedition on the next parish to Manhattan as I type . . . See you Monday!


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## LS400 (2 Oct 2015)

That's brilliant writing, and quite true in fact. A few of my pals have moved to the county and that's pretty much the way is seems...in some places more than others. But as the op in this case has been there many times, I think they know the lye of the land.
Looking forward to Monday's episode all the same.


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## Fourteen (2 Oct 2015)

Some very sensible advice from everyone, many thanks.

Leper, that's an outstanding insight into being a temporary 'blow-in'. I think the next parish to the location I'm looking at is probably in isolated northern Newfoundland! Adding everything up we're beginning to think that continuing the annual rental trip is probably more advisable at our age although the lure of my own bolthole is still a very attractive idea.

Can't wait to read installment two of your holiday home ownership story.


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## losttheplot (2 Oct 2015)

Would you consider a Motorhome? Not for everyone, but speaking to some who have them, they love them.


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## Grizzly (4 Oct 2015)

Well I'm just back from a 5 day break in Madrid. Lots of good food. Visited Toledo and Segovia. The overall trip cost the two of us about €700. Flights. Hotel. Day Trips. Food etc. Short sleeved shirts even in the late evening. I have already had similar trips to Majorca and France earlier this year. Already planning the next one. While the arsehole of nowhere might be lovely to visit for a quiet relaxing break I for one crave the excitement of seeing lots of different cultures, etc
We have lots of family get togethers in our own home here in Dublin and we are happy to have our Irish holiday in July and August but after that it is searching for the next Ryanair or Aer Lingus bargain to somewhere. Often pot luck, suck it and see type of break. I haven't been disappointed yet.


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## Leper (7 Oct 2015)

I'm just back from "Neglected Rural Ireland" and have just read the entire amount of posts here and apologies for thinking that a holiday home abroad might be an issue.  Now, I know the proposed accommodation is an apartment in Ireland. I advised earlier that Fourteen would be daft to buy because he is in his sixties.  I'm in my sixties too and sorry to say to Fourteen that he has missed the boat even if the property is a bargain offer.

Have a look at other posts on this section of the forum and you will see some of the pitfalls of buying abroad.  I know people who have bought in Turkey and they now cannot cope with how they made the mistake.  One of them bought five apartments in Turkey and it was GREED stupid!

Somebody came up with the idea of purchasing a dormobile.  I have no experience here, but the two couples I know who bought one such vehicle each love the dormobile more than they love each other.

We used to own a mobile home some years ago and to be honest we got the greatest of value over summers in Ireland where the six of us swam every day whether sun, snow, hail, rain, wind or our mobile home neighbours from Limerick. A mobile home (they're very expensive) might be an option.


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## Fourteen (7 Oct 2015)

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Well, after much humming and hawing and a further 4 hour round trip to view the property again the decision has been made not to buy. We'll continue our annual rental trip in addition to a few annual trips abroad.

I have a few friends who have dormobiles and love them but I'm at the stage in life where I want comfort and being cramped in a small place without proper bathroom facilities doesn't appeal at all.

We did the whole campsite thing for many years when the kids were small both here in Ireland with our own touring caravan and then in France in mobile homes. Perfect for holidays with smallies but I don't think I would find sitting outside trying to read with dozens of screaming children running around very relaxing at this stage in life (have the grandkids at home for that!) so I think that knocks mobile homes on the head, although we did actually briefly consider one a while back.

Leper, I'd love to hear your experiences of owning a holiday home abroad so please give us chapter 2!


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## Leper (8 Oct 2015)

Chapter 2:- No humour; just facts and the whole truth as against what many say is the truth.  We bought a holiday apartment in southern Spain thirteen years ago.  I was fifty with adult family.  Mrs Lep and I decided we had enough of drudgery (i.e. another word for rearing children - don't forget at this stage that I promised to say the full truth). We looked at this stage in our lives as "Our Time" and property in Spain was relatively affordable.  We thought we could take any hit and property was never going to decrease in value (famous last words!).

I make no apologies, we bought as an investment, to use for our holidays and for provision of a rental income.  We were starting from scratch and learned lessons almost by the week.  We did all the right things, employed a Gestor (solicitor) to act solely for us as against an Abogado (Conveyancing Officer) to allay fears of well publicised properties being raised to the ground.  We knew Spanish workmanship was not great, but thought employing a surveyor would resolve any problems here.  He didn't and in Spain you have no comeback.  We had to get extensive repairs over the years which could have been prevented by the original builders.  However, we got over that.

So you're watching Holiday Homes Abroad and A Place in the Sun etc.  I am not saying that the people in these programmes were telling lies, but nearly everything said was far from the full truth e.g. (watching a re-run of programmes recently) I heard a real estate agent talking about a new high speed railway line from airports due to use a stop nearby. She pointed out that you can actually see the rails.  You can see the rails but the only things rolling over them are the local fauna.  These rails won't see a train for years to come.  And another pointed out the new International Airport just up the road which is nearing completion.  It was completed 12 months ago and hasn't seen a plane of any description and probably will never see one. Don't believe a word from any of these tv programmes.

You can pick up property on the Costas at good prices at the moment.  Spain is not recovering anywhere near the rate of Ireland's.  I would advise not to buy unless you can take an extensive hit down the line.  You think by handing your property over to a real estate agent for rental purposes you are on the road to an easy income.  They take commission, advertising fees, etc and your income will be down by at least 20%.  So you think you have 80% for yourself.  Take the utilities, electricity, water, refuse, property tax, complex fees etc from that and you might have something left.  But, the real estate company contacts you and informs that the cistern must be replaced in the bathroom and a new bed and mattress are required immediately.  You have no way of knowing whether these items need replacing but you take them at their word and the cycle restarts the following year.

We got rid of the real estate agent.  We rent the apartment ourselves through word-of-mouth and over the years have built up repeat customers.

I have more to say, but I don't want to bore the pants off anybody, and I have to leave for work . . . so I will come back with Chapter 2 (b).


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## Broadcaster (14 Oct 2015)

Leper said:


> Chapter 2:- No humour; just facts and the whole truth as against what many say is the truth.  We bought a holiday apartment in southern Spain thirteen years ago.  I was fifty with adult family.  Mrs Lep and I decided we had enough of drudgery (i.e. another word for rearing children - don't forget at this stage that I promised to say the full truth). We looked at this stage in our lives as "Our Time" and property in Spain was relatively affordable.  We thought we could take any hit and property was never going to decrease in value (famous last words!).
> 
> I make no apologies, we bought as an investment, to use for our holidays and for provision of a rental income.  We were starting from scratch and learned lessons almost by the week.  We did all the right things, employed a Gestor (solicitor) to act solely for us as against an Abogado (Conveyancing Officer) to allay fears of well publicised properties being raised to the ground.  We knew Spanish workmanship was not great, but thought employing a surveyor would resolve any problems here.  He didn't and in Spain you have no comeback.  We had to get extensive repairs over the years which could have been prevented by the original builders.  However, we got over that.
> 
> ...


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## Cricketer (6 Jun 2020)

@Leper Must have been a long day at work!


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## Leper (6 Jun 2020)

Cricketer said:


> @Leper Must have been a long day at work!


Hi Cricketer, You have the advantage of me and I'm having a few senior moments about another thread on chest freezers; in another I'm getting confused about somebody zooming (means different things to me, I've just discovered) you'll have to explain and I'll see if I can get the fingers moving to answer you.


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## Cricketer (6 Jun 2020)

@Leper You said you'd come back with Chapter 2(b) but you had to head to work. On 8th October 2015!


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## Leper (7 Jun 2020)

Cricketer said:


> @Leper You said you'd come back with Chapter 2(b) but you had to head to work. On 8th October 2015!


Cricketer, you're right. More importantly, I can now trace my "senior moments" to 2015. I didn't realise I have been in these parts for over five years. The railway line I spoke about is still dormant, but the new international airport (Murcia International) is operating smoothly.

I'll call this post Chapter 2(b), now where did I leave that mug of Hot Chocolate . . . .?


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## Derry2020 (7 Jun 2020)

Cricketer said:


> @Leper You said you'd come back with Chapter 2(b) but you had to head to work. On 8th October 2015!


Hi Leper
I’ve really enjoyed your posts and advice on buying a holiday home abroad. You’ve made me think twice and strongly reconsider.

However, when I start day dreaming and come back to the idea of buying a holiday home in Spain, I write out the positive justifications for owning a holiday home and the negative reasons. The negative reasons always seem to out number the positive ones.

You mentioned in one of your posts that you wouldn’t recommend buying even at a bargain price. I would have thought that buying at a good price would have been a positive. Maybe the seller for genuine personal reasons needed a quick sale etc. Would you still recommend not bying if the “good quality” property was significantly reduced?

I mentioned “Good Quality” property because I feel there’s no point in buying something cheap in a bad area.

Does the annual taxes, fees and maintenance, eventually knock the fun out of it?

One of my concerns is the Spanish inheritance tax. It varies from region to region and can be quite high. It’s just something else to consider if the property is passed on to the children.

Always happy to read your thoughts on this topic, as it might prevent me from making a mistake.

Derry


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## Leper (7 Jun 2020)

Hi Derry,
I didn't walk blind into buying Spanish property like some in that recent RTE television programme. Their motive largely was greed (but with few exceptions). Mine was investment especially for our retirement years (a different sort of greed). I was never astute with money, lost heavily on Eircom shares (but it could have been much worse) and a subsequent investment portfolio was about as inspiring as Donald Trump's recent efforts. We bought an Irish holiday home years before and the location was too isolated, I kid you not. We took a hit there too with replacing the kitchen's flat roof, refurbishing the whole house with new windows etc, improving the site etc before we sold it on. Twenty years ago I had a lump sum to invest and I did all my research and that was a time when Jetmagic advised that 50,000 people from Munster had purchased property in the Alicante region alone. 

My sights were set on Spanish bricks and mortar. What could go wrong? We bought an apartment that was going to have us set in clover after retiring. In 2007 the hit came and price of property in Spain was hit much harder than in Ireland. OK! - We weren't selling anyway, but thought we could plough through the recession, pick up some rentals, keep costs down and wait for things to improve. Then B R E X I T, something I needed like root canal treatment. But, in the years leading up to what will eventually be Brexit, property prices increased and even ours was within  €20K of what we paid. We thought we'd have another year of increase in prices and lax as we are we decided to hold ground and with my luck, the Coronavirus struck. Certainly, this will affect mainstream property prices in Spain, but probably only those that were "rubbishy." Rule Number 1 if buying property in Spain:- Ensure you can sell it, even at a loss. Some properties there cannot be sold, I kid you not (no planning permission, water treatment plant near etc). 

We continue to use our apartment and rent it out when we are not using it. But, the rental market on the Costas is swarmed with people like us and it is a Renters' Market. Our apartment is good, centrally located, modern, has magnificent views, within 2 mins walk to the beach and supermarket, restaurants and rental prices off season are around €700 per month including utilities, internet, parking etc. It is the warmest and driest area of Spain and attracts retired couples mainly from the UK. 

If I were asked to provide one sentence to prevent people buying property in Spain it would be:- You will pay €2K in community fees, Spanish taxes, Public LIghting Tax, Car-Parking tax even before you pay for electricity, water, refuse, internet charges, advertising. If you are comfortable with this then go ahead and buy Spanish property. Now is the time that is right and you'll never get a better chance to buy the right property.

Is it easy to rent out your Spanish property?:- During June, July and August you could make a fortune (€550 - €650 per week in rentals; deduct utility and internet costs). We use the place during the whole summer for family and friends thereby sacrificing the high end of rental earnings.

Can you purchase good quality property property in Spain?:- Yes. Remember, many bought off plan at a much cheaper price and can now sell fairly cheaply and still make a profit. I was not one of those, I regret to say. But, buy off plan is risky, what you are buying can change at any time before the building work is completed (a little secret you heard here first and probably the best advice you'll get).

Do I wish we hadn't bought?:- Yes (especially when I see how much I can rent there in the off season).
Will we try to sell within 12 months?:- No. But, perhaps in the near future? 
Will we continue to use Spain for holidays?:- Yes.

Summary:- If we hadn't bought in Spain we would have invested in well known investments and would have lost much, much more. There were worse investments than Spanish property, you know . . .


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## Derry2020 (7 Jun 2020)

\


Leper said:


> Hi Derry,
> I didn't walk blind into buying Spanish property like some in that recent RTE television programme. Their motive largely was greed (but with few exceptions). Mine was investment especially for our retirement years (a different sort of greed). I was never astute with money, lost heavily on Eircom shares (but it could have been much worse) and a subsequent investment portfolio was about as inspiring as Donald Trump's recent efforts. We bought an Irish holiday home years before and the location was too isolated, I kid you not. We took a hit there too with replacing the kitchen's flat roof, refurbishing the whole house with new windows etc, improving the site etc before we sold it on. Twenty years ago I had a lump sum to invest and I did all my research and that was a time when Jetmagic advised that 50,000 people from Munster had purchased property in the Alicante region alone.
> 
> My sights were set on Spanish bricks and mortar. What could go wrong? We bought an apartment that was going to have us set in clover after retiring. In 2007 the hit came and price of property in Spain was hit much harder than in Ireland. OK! - We weren't selling anyway, but thought we could plough through the recession, pick up some rentals, keep costs down and wait for things to improve. Then B R E X I T, something I needed like root canal treatment. But, in the years leading up to what will eventually be Brexit, property prices increased and even ours was within  €20K of what we paid. We thought we'd have another year of increase in prices and lax as we are we decided to hold ground and with my luck, the Coronavirus struck. Certainly, this will affect mainstream property prices in Spain, but probably only those that were "rubbishy." Rule Number 1 if buying property in Spain:- Ensure you can sell it, even at a loss. Some properties there cannot be sold, I kid you not (no planning permission, water treatment plant near etc).
> ...


Hi Leper

Thank you very much for your reply and more importantly, your honesty.

Your experience is really a flashing warning light for people interested in buying a holiday home abroad. You highlight very clearly the positives and negatives and to be fair, there are many positives. I’ve paid a lot of attention to all your posts on the topic, I do appreciate you coming back to me.

The area you purchased in is beautiful and your property should eventually regain its value. At that stage, you can decide to jump ship If it suits.

I wish you the very best
Derry


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## Gordon Gekko (7 Jun 2020)

I’m starting to think about buying somewhere overseas. Not today but sometime in the next 5 years or so. The plan would be to borrow some of the money. I think it’d be important to borrow the money locally rather than here. Just in case the Euro goes bang or something bad happens in that country.


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## Bronco Lane (8 Jun 2020)

I have the price of a decent Spanish property sitting in the Prize Bonds at the moment. My "wins" in the past year have been appalling. I keep saying that I am exiting these and am going to buy something somewhere.
I was lucky in that I purchased shares in a well known cement company last March when they hit their "low" in many years. I know "timing the market" is frowned on here but I like to think I did. Unfortunately I sold after a £5 rise per share, they have continued to rise by another £9 per share.  So I didn't time the exit properly. Still I made a chunky profit but not the huge profit that I could have made. Is this good luck or bad luck?
Leper, none of us get our timing right. 
I talk through purchasing an overseas property with my wife constantly. As Derry 2020 says above the reasons not to purchase outweigh the reasons to purchase. I am not sure if I like the idea of returning to the same place every year as the world is a huge place with lots to see. Then again Covid has made me look at things differently. Maybe I need to stick to one safe place than put myself at risk by travelling all over the place.
I am not sure if my sons, with their own families, would want to or have the time to use an overseas property. It could sit idle for long periods. I would not need to rent it out. 
I was looking at some pretty nice Spanish hotels this morning with a view to going away next year. I could have two nice holidays, including flights on the taxes and community fees that I would have to pay. Another couple of holidays on the other utility bills etc that I would have to pay. I usually have about 5 overseas DIY holidays every year. I spend about €5k in total. That is usually enough to sate my appetite. Throw in a couple of Irish summer breaks and that's enough.
But the lure of having somewhere abroad still draws...


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jun 2020)

It’s an interesting question. I’m also wary of tying myself to one place and feeling ‘annoyed’ if I’m somewhere else whilst I’ve bricks and mortar costing me money.

We have a plan to ease off quite significantly on the run-in to retirement and to try to spend a lot of Thursday evenings to Mondays outside of Ireland. Of course you could do that anywhere and rent, but I like the idea of a nice base that we could travel to easily, that could host family and friends comfortably, and that we could transition to living in for some months of the year over time.

On the one hand, you mightn’t choose to buy something now but equally you’ve longer to fund it and a greater ability to borrow.


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## Bronco Lane (8 Jun 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> It’s an interesting question. I’m also wary of tying myself to one place and feeling ‘annoyed’ if I’m somewhere else whilst I’ve bricks and mortar costing me money.
> On the one hand, you mightn’t choose to buy something now but equally you’ve longer to fund it and a greater ability to borrow.



I owned a mobile home in Brittas Bay back in the 90's. It was expensive to keep.
I did not get value out of it. I was working during the week and could only use at weekends. Many husbands travelled there on a Friday after work to meet up with the family who were spending the summer there. My own children were teenagers and didn't want to be there either. 
They have their own young families now and would probably love it if we still had it.
We also felt annoyed when we went elsewhere, knowing that we had this expensive holiday home sitting idle.

In retirement I am not sure even now that I would spend every weekend there during the summer. It really depends on the type of person you are. Many fathers were members of the local Blainroe golf course and played golf at weekends or just sat in their mobile homes and read the newspapers.

My brother owns a house in Spain. He spends a lot of time just reading books sitting in the sun. He has a car there but he hasn't travelled around Spain. In fact he seldom strays from the area where he bought.

I would hate this. I like to see lots of new places. If I owned in Murcia let's say but I wanted to travel to Seville I would need to stay overnight. I would probably think that I am paying for a hotel in Seville while having a home in Murcia. Why not just fly from Dublin to Seville for a few nights instead and not own a holiday home.


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## declan11 (8 Jun 2020)

Hi Folks. We have a one bed apartment in Nice, bought in 2007. Property prices in France have remained pretty static since then dropping and rising about 10-15% in the 13 years I think. We bought in the city centre, so it is saleable or rentable to residents if we needed to go down that route. We rent it out successfully when not in use, this year being an exception, and generally it pays its way. Costs are high with management fees, taxes and utilities, accountancy fees etc, so it would be very expensive to retain it just for personal use. We as a family generally get about 6 weeks use out of it and Nice is a great place with all of the attractions of a beach holiday with city life and cultural life as extras.  It has generated acceptable returns as an investment and we are very pleased we bought it.


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## Leper (10 Jun 2020)

I have a confession to make. Since we bought Spanish property we have gone to many other countries on holidays. OK! we use Spain for our extended off season breaks but we travel to other holiday spots as well. We are pretty partial to Italy and France. Usually we rent a car in Spain (you can pick up some good bargain rental prices in the off season) and we head off in whatever direction we wish. I can remember even one trip where we were skiing in the Alpujarras one morning and swimming in the Mediterranean later that day. Before somebody points out that the skiing in the Alpujarras is not as good as the slopes of Austria/Switzerland, I know that well, but I'm no Franz Klammer.

I know of many reasons for not buying a holiday home in Spain, but being confined to taking holidays there is not one of them.


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## 50andOut (9 Jul 2020)

Interesting post and thanks Leper for the well written overview of your experience, I loved that.

I am currently just at the starting phase of thinking of buying a property, most likely in Spain. This is part of a longer term retirement plan (10-15 years time), but rather than wait until I retire (and using the 25% pension lump sum), I am considering bringing forward and purchasing now (well in the next 18m-2 years) for a couple of reasons. 

1. I can afford the mortgage and my savings are doing nothing.
2. Prices are relatively low and maybe Covid will see them stall/drop over next year. 
3. If prices do eventually rise, I may not be able to afford it later at retirement.
4. It would allow my retired parents who live in the UK to join us on holidays for just the cost of a flight, so will be good for them financially and something they will most likely be past enjoying/not able for by the time I retire.
5. As the complete opposite of what someone said above, the €5/6k I usually spend on holidays with the kids will cover the annual fees and our holiday (flight only). I see this as a positive. Whilst I have no intention of limiting our travels to the one place - at the moment with 3 young kids it would be much more convenient to do so. Plus later on short breaks for 2 can be taken much easier and cheaper when we want to experience over places.
6. I am planning on renting out most of the year, where feasible (at least until retirement) and would hope to cover at least the interest portion of the mortgage and hopefully more.

The only thing putting me off which I do not have full details for is the rates and charges locally and TAX to pay on any income.

Does anyone have any good links for resources to further research?

thanks 50+O


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## Leper (10 Jul 2020)

In some areas of Spain you are obliged to register as a person who rents out his/her property. You must conform with safety/fire rules. The local "council" will expect to be paid 19% of the rental paid (minus utility fees etc for the periods of rentals). You may have to hire a financial advisor to act for you if you don't speak good Spanish. These fees to the council are paid quarterly in most areas. 

. . . . . and Spain being Spain the letting rules can change at any moment i.e. the 19% can be upped without notice and/or the expenses claimed may not be allowed. 

On the plus side:- The astute purchaser can bag a bargain by waiting until September before buying. If property is not sold by the end of December, it usually remains on the estate agents' books for most of the following year. You might find estate agents off loading then. But, don't jump into a situation to buy a high rise apartment in Ballymun-in-the-Sun resorts; you'll never sell it if you want.


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## Gordon Gekko (10 Jul 2020)

It’s probably worth setting out some of the various options for funding such a purchase:

- You can use savings
- Equity release in Ireland is no longer possible
- You can use some of your retirement lump sum
- You might inherit it (so there are foreign and domestic tax issues to consider)
- You could take out a local mortage; typical rates in Portugal and Spain for non-residents are circa 2.5% with loans of up to 70-75% provided. Terms can go up to 30 years depending on one’s age
- You could downsize and use some of the proceeds
- You could sell up lock stock and barrel and move overseas; friends of my parents did this and regret it to this day


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## Thirsty (10 Jul 2020)

Or you could have sense & not do it!


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