# vat liability on (new) second hand car??



## sidewalk (16 Jan 2009)

Hi going to england to buy bmw in the near future,find it very hard to find value spec i am after here.I seen a pre reg demo car from august 2008 with 1000 miles on it,the price very attractive at 33k all in inc vrt+uk vat.Would this car be classed as new in ireland and also be liable for irish vat.Was thinking about buying it with vat number and avoiding paying the uk vat would this help?


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## wexcar (16 Jan 2009)

Make sure you check with the dealer first, but if you are importing it to Ireland/exporting direct from UK they fill out a form from inland revenue which lets them sell it tax free to you. However you naturally have to pay the VAT in Ireland, 21.5% instead of 15% on the ex-vat UK price. 

The only thing you will prob have to do in this case is get the car shipped to a UK port as the garage will prob be reluctant to let it on the road.

There is a thing called Vat qualifying in the UK which is something like us paying vat or not depending on VAT number, so you would need to check that out first. Anyway, talk to the dealer, if they've done it before they will know, I bought an ex-demo last year with 3k miles and I done it as above no probs


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## denby11 (17 Jan 2009)

Would i be correct in saying if the car was over six months old and with more than 6000km on it i could be it in without paying the vat on it(no vat on secondhand cars)by providing my vat number over there?


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## deekster (17 Jan 2009)

Simple question, I'm about to make the trip over to the UK to buy a 2008 VW Golf.

I am registered here in Ireland for VAT, as a sole trader. I want to take advantage of this and buy a model advertised on Autotrader as 'Gross Vat Qualifying'.

So, I've been calling the dealers in the UK to investigate exactly what needs to happen in order for me to only have to pay 85% of the price of the car.
The dealers that I have spoken to (in the Greater Manchester area anyway) are generally clueless. And when they hear the Irish accent I think they lose interest a bit.

Some have said I have to pay 100% of the price to the dealer and then claim it back. I don't think this is right. And even if it were, from whom would I claim it?

Would anyone know exactly what I need to tell/show these guys in order to get the 85% price????????

Surely someone has done this before


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## sse (18 Jan 2009)

I'm not an expert on this but the purchase without UK VAT and then exporting and buying a "VAT Qualifying" vehicle are two separate things.

I'd suggest a search on this forum for buying a car without the UK VAT - I believe you need to fill in an export form which the dealer can then use to sell you the car without the UK VAT. I'm pretty certain somebody put up a step-by-step guide a while back but I can't find it now. I think the car has to be < 6 months and < 6000 km for this to be possible. Some dealers charge you the VAT-inclusive price and then refund you the UK VAT when the vehicle is physically exported.

From the HMRC website: 
*Exporting your motor vehicle to another EU country from the UK*


If you buy a new motor vehicle in the UK to take to somewhere else in the EU, you'll have to pay VAT on the vehicle in the other country when you arrive there. You won't have to pay UK VAT when you buy the car if you do all three of these things:

you or your authorised chauffeur personally take delivery of the new vehicle in the UK
you export it within two months of its supply to you
you and your supplier complete and sign form VAT 411 and send it to the address on the form
If you sell a new vehicle to someone who is moving to another EU country within two months, you may be entitled to a refund of VAT. This only applies if you aren't registered for VAT in the UK, and you can demonstrate that you have paid UK VAT on the vehicle.
Obtain form VAT 411 New Means of Transport

Generally I think you need to have the car delivered to the Republic or the port of export - you won't be able to drive it back. When you get it to Ireland you pay the VAT and the VRT (unless the revenue office want to check on the extras fitted in which case you get a waiver until the final figure is determined).

The "VAT qualifying" is a UK accounting term which means that the car has never had UK VAT applied on it - e.g. it was a hire car or something. The first "end user" has to pay the VAT but if the buyer is a VAT-registered business they don't have to *but the vehicle can't be used for any personal use.* It's something like that anyway, you don't need a "VAT Qualifying" vehicle to import it as far as I know.

Good time to buy a car in the UK!

SSE


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## denby11 (19 Jan 2009)

"Generally I think you need to have the car delivered to the Republic or the port of export - you won't be able to drive it back. When you get it to Ireland you pay the VAT and the VRT (unless the revenue office want to check on the extras fitted in which case you get a waiver until the final figure is determined)."


If you import a second hand car ie over six months <6000km can you bring it in gross of vat and get away with not paying the vat as there is "no vat on second hand cars here"-From vrt office


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## sse (19 Jan 2009)

I believe the car has to > 6m and > 6000 km to not pay Irish VAT, but I stand to be corrected.

SSE


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## rraido (23 Jan 2009)

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but you have to pay VAT on a car. Whether its here or in the UK VAT has to be paid. A dealer is the only one who can go over to the UK and quote their VAT number and get a second hand car VAT free over there and then he has to account for the VAT here.

If a car is < 6 months old or has < 6000 km's on the clock then its classed as a new means of transport and VAT is payable here. You can get the car VAT free in the UK in this instance, but VAT must be paid plus VRT when you bring the car to your local VRO to register it.


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## flightspeed (26 Jan 2009)

I'm trying to clear this VAT Qualifying business up myself. I have visited the HM Revenue site too. I am trying to Import a Mini from the UK. 
The difference between a 2007 and 2008 vehicle is about £1000 which seems like good value. I want to avoid any VAT issue and just want to bring in a second hand car that is over 6000km and over 6months old as is the Irish requirement.
The 2007 price is stated at £x,xxx
while the 2008 is £x,xxx (Vat Qualifying) 
I spoke to the garage and they told me that it was a demo model so they must state VAT QUALIFYING but I would not have to pay anything on top of the listed price. 
The price is the price.
Now seeing as it meets the Irish Criteria for a second hand car is that it. Home and dry? Take the 08, pay the price and forget the VAT Qualifying.
Or will the HM Revenue or Irish Revenue have a difficulty with this??
Also I do not want to claim any refund or the like on that price and am not trying to register myself for VAT. 
Am I safer just getting an 07 altogether??

Anyone with any knowledge of what this means please help!!


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## PatC (26 Jan 2009)

Hi There

You will have no problem with the 2008 which was more than likely a lease car or a demo etc. The vat would have been reclaimed on this car when it was new. You will buy at asking price. The dealer will have added vat back to this price already. Your liabity for vat in England or Ireland ends here. You have no futher liability as vat has only to be paid once in any European country. If you are vat registered you can fill a form 411 with the dealer and he will sell you the car minus 15% vat. You will supply your vat no. for this and claim your intention of paying 21.5% vat in Ireland. Nobody might pick up on the non payment back in Ireland as only vrt will be looked for. There is a name for this...VAT FRAUD. A serious offence. I hope this helps


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## PatC (26 Jan 2009)

PS 2008 model will be taxed on new co2 system. I dont know what model mini you are looking at but some of them are very low emmisions ie. low tax. 2007 car will always be on the old system


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## cloughy (27 Jan 2009)

not correct, any car imported will have VRT on the co2, but motor tax is based off the following (if www.motortax.ie) is to be believed:


A private car first registered abroad 
*prior to 1 January 2008 *will be taxed on *engine size (cc). *The new CO2 based system does *not apply *to second-hand imports that were registered abroad prior to 2008.

A private car *first registered abroad between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 *inclusive and subsequently registered in Ireland will be taxed on whichever is the lesser of the motor tax rates based engine (cc) or CO2 emissions.​ 
A private car *first registered abroad after 1 July 2008 *and subsequently registered in Ireland will be taxed on the CO2 rate.​ 
so any car first registered abraod 1/1/08-30/6/08 will have its motor tax based on the lesser of co2% engine size. Thats my understanding, and bringing in a car next week (April 08) where engine size motor tax is lower than CO2 so hope the above is correct. Please correct me if I am wrong.​ ​


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## sse (27 Jan 2009)

PatC said:


> Hi There
> 
> You will have no problem with the 2008 which was more than likely a lease car or a demo etc. The vat would have been reclaimed on this car when it was new. You will buy at asking price. The dealer will have added vat back to this price already. Your liabity for vat in England or Ireland ends here. You have no futher liability as vat has only to be paid once in any European country. If you are vat registered you can fill a form 411 with the dealer and he will sell you the car minus 15% vat. You will supply your vat no. for this and claim your intention of paying 21.5% vat in Ireland. Nobody might pick up on the non payment back in Ireland as only vrt will be looked for. There is a name for this...VAT FRAUD. A serious offence. I hope this helps


 
The VAT 411 form is specifically for the removal of a new means of transport by persons NOT registered for VAT.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...Forms&id=HMCE_CL_000046&propertyType=document

The "VAT Qualifying" indication on the price is not relevant, as stated above.

SSE


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## sse (27 Jan 2009)

BTW, to qualify as a "new" means of transport for export, the vehicle has to be < 6 mths AND < 6000km.

[broken link removed]

All you need is in the above link.

Happy purchasing.

SSE


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## flightspeed (4 Feb 2009)

excellent stuff....
Thats both right... Vat qualifying can be claimed back on certain cars, usually on new ones only but some demo models can reclaim vat and some garages put this up as an incentive to companies but does not affect a private buyer.

The 08 based on co2 is half the price road tax of an 07 based on engine.. over a third cheaper than an 06 of same model..   madness...

Bought the 08,  yesterday, in London...
thanks for the help


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