# Natural stone vs stone cladding



## Silvergirl (26 Jul 2007)

Hi all,

Any comments on above? We will be having stone of some sort on a large square bay window on the front of our house, can anyone shed some light on the pros, cons, costs of either option?

Thanks
S'girl


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## sydthebeat (26 Jul 2007)

firstly natural stone and stone cladding are the same thing... natural stone is not structural and thus is 'clad' onto a wall.....

perhaps you mean natural stone (eg manor stone) v reconstituted stone??? (eg bradstone)......

all i know is natural stone cost about €30-40 per sq m to supply and could cost up to €120 per sq m to supply and fit.. im not sure of reconstituted structural stone...


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## Silvergirl (27 Jul 2007)

Thanks Syd,

That's what I mean, think Fernhill fake stone is around Eur 170 suppled & fit...

Is there maintenance req'd with natural stone? The fake stuff comes with a 30 year limited guarantee..

Wondering if people who have either can comment?

Thanks


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## sydthebeat (27 Jul 2007)

while some might have an issue with the label 'fake'.. i know what you mean.... but you must take into account when considering price that the reconstituted stone does not require a 100mm outer concrete block leaf... it actually *is *the outer leaf....

natural stone (limestone) is very low maintenance, the easiest ways to describe this is just to look at some historical buildings that still have great quality stonework.....


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## Fintan (27 Jul 2007)

Silvergirl said:


> Thanks Syd,
> Fernhill fake stone is around Eur 170 suppled & fit...
> 
> Thanks



That seems very expensive, I have dealt with Peter at www.StoneCladding.ie and the pricing would be a lot more competitve.


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## Silvergirl (27 Jul 2007)

Don't mean to cause offence by calling it that - but isn't fake what it is? An imitation / copy of the real thing? 

Perhaps imitation would be a better term...

I had heard from someone that you need to treat natural stone with sealant, I know what you mean about historical buildings however they are generally not comfortably habitable by todays' standards (castles etc tend to be damp, cold places) so just want to be sure there the stone wouldn't say go green or anything. Thanks for the info about the outler leaf etc.

Thanks for the stone cladding company tip, will give them a shout for prices.

BRgds


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## mudhut (21 Feb 2008)

Hello All

I  was just reading thru these threads on cladding, I have decided to go with a bradstone finish on my house front.

Its mentioned in the threads that reconstituted stone does not require a 100mm outer concrete block leaf... it actually *is *the outer leaf....,

When constructing timberframe the 4" block wall is secured to the kit with wall ties, is this the same with bradstone or will I need to build my house front with a traditional 4" block then an outer leaf built with bradstone ?

Also anybody have a rough idea of cost of labour for bradstone, I already have a quote from bradstone ,  

would appreciate any help you could lend 

thanks all

MudHut


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## poochie101 (12 Jan 2009)

Hi Mudhut, 
Just a warning about using the likes of bradstone as the outer leaf of you house. My sister did just that and has had major problems with leaks. She had all sorts investigations done on it and eventually had to have it plastered. she then got it faced with stone cladding from fernhill stone and has not had any problems since. Maybe this was a once off as i've seen a lot of houses using the like of bradstone, but she would'nt reccomend doing that. I've just had a quote from fernhill myself as i'm launching into building...Joy!! I have looked at other cladding stones and have decided this company is the best option for me, the rep calls out with all their samples and gave me a quote straight away and sent me off to see some of the stone i was intrested in on a house not too far away from where i lived.. good luck with your build.. you should have a look at their site www.fernhillstone.com


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## mini (22 Aug 2009)

How much did your sisters job cost with Fernhill


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## onq (21 Oct 2009)

Silvergirl said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Any comments on above? We will be having stone of some sort on a large square bay window on the front of our house, can anyone shed some light on the pros, cons, costs of either option?
> 
> ...



*A *Cladding is stone applied to a structural substrate. By implication it is non-structural, since it "clads" or "clothes" the building.
It can be stuck, mechanically fixed or hung - all in sheets 20-60mm thick, depending on the type of stone.

*B *Facing stone in traditional built work is usually a structural skin of coursed stonework, usually with binding stones at right angles going into the wall sometimes forming cross walls but often just giving "purchase" or hold. The external face(s) of the stone is(are) usually dressed in some way - picked, smooth or intentionally left "rough" sometimes with a 25mm "flat" rim all around the face.

These walls are usually two structural "skins" [one of which is the outer, high facing stone, the other being the inner which may be of rougher stone rendered over or brickwork] and the space between them filled with a rubble concretion to save money.
The individual stones can be anything from 125-250mm thick or more, particularly for corner-stones.

*C *Natural Stone outer leaf may be achieved using either; -
(i)  an outer coursed skin laid in mortar beds and tied directly back to an outer leaf of a cavity wall in block, a structural facing if you will with any interstitial cavities between stone and outer leaf filled with mortar, or
(ii) a structural outer leaf in stone laid in mortar usually 150mm thick minimum going up to 225mm. The cavity may be up to 150mm with suitable s/s ties to allow for the irregularity of the rear face of the stone.

Type *A * above, Cladding stone usually gives the game away rounding the corner at quoins or forming opes, much like timber veneer does.

Types *B * and *C * above, Stone facing or Natural Stone outer leaf, both give the "authentic" stone look but may cost significantly more.

All forms of stone finish need careful detailing of the heads and sills to preserve the "look" you are aiming for. 

Similarly the returns of the opes and the placement of the windows need to be carefully considered.

Cut stone heads and sills are expensive, particularly if the head integrates with a beam and the sill has receiving haunches and a weathering groove underneath. And that's assumnig we're just talking about straight sills hear and not projecting bay windows with corners.

Finally, one word of warning about mitred joints.
My personal preference where sills project out and return across the window is for cut corner-pieces.
Bevelled or mitred joints [cut on the 45 degree angle] usually open up from frost action and thermal movement of the stone and the mortar erodes.

HTH

ONQ.


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## galwaytt (24 Oct 2009)

sydthebeat said:


> while some might have an issue with the label 'fake'.. i know what you mean.... but you must take into account when considering price that the reconstituted stone does not require a 100mm outer concrete block leaf... it actually *is *the outer leaf....
> 
> natural stone (limestone) is very low maintenance, the easiest ways to describe this is just to look at some historical buildings that still have great quality stonework.....


 

I'll take issue with that actually - natural stone, in a facade, should ideally be backed with concrete blocks, preferaby scratch-coated plastered, too. Natural stone, particularly granite, is porous, and not waterproof. Dry jointed natural stone .....leaks like a sieve, and it needs a block backing to maintain a cavity over the inner leaf. Aside from all that, it's expensive.

Me ? Mine is 'fake' 'reconstituted' or whatever, but, works for me. Got mine from [broken link removed] in Carnmore, Co Galway. I have a better pic at work, so will post that after the week-end.

Advantage? Price, appearance (imho), speed of fit (finished in 1.5 days).


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## sydthebeat (24 Oct 2009)

galwaytt said:


> *I'll take issue with that actually - natural stone, in a facade, should ideally be backed with concrete blocks, preferaby scratch-coated plastered, too. Natural stone, particularly granite, is porous, and not waterproof. Dry jointed natural stone .....leaks like a sieve, and it needs a block backing to maintain a cavity over the inner leaf. Aside from all that, it's expensive.*




you are not saying anything which is at odds with what i posted???


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## onq (24 Oct 2009)

galwaytt said:


> Natural stone, particularly granite, is porous, and not waterproof.



Granite it is not porous - its an igneous rock, which means it was once molten and is a fused homogeneous, impermeable mass.

While you can come across examples of "weathered" of "shattered" rock, which may allow some water penetration, good granite is impervious to water penetration.

Thus its not the stone that admits water where its used as an outer leaf, but other causes can arise, including the type of mortar used - see this link about houses in Scotland made of Granite:

[broken link removed]

FWIW

ONQ.


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## galwaytt (27 Oct 2009)

sydthebeat said:


> you are not saying anything which is at odds with what i posted???


 yes, I see what you mean - must have read it funny.......



onq said:


> Granite it is not porous - its an igneous rock, which means it was once molten and is a fused homogeneous, impermeable mass.
> ONQ.


 
I take your point, so it is probably the laying of it, that is the issue I'm assuming.

FWIW, pic of my 'cladding', attached.


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## mini (11 Nov 2009)

Looks great!Can you give me contact number please. No luck on net. ta


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## galwaytt (12 Nov 2009)

Here you go:   

We started a small demo unit for ourselves today, and will be getting them to put one of their products on one facade - I'll post pics when it's up.


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## Sandals (12 Nov 2009)

Have used the same company to do around our built in range in the kitchen. 

Delighted with the results (just found they dont answer emails) and the polish lads that arrived were very nice and excellent at their job. Recommended not to put in the arch one sees normally as block light when working on range. total cost approx €500 material and €300 labour, done in one evening. Had original plan to do in brick but was costing twice this. This really looks amazing. In fact husbands boss had his range done a few weeks later in real stone (with arch and terrible cramped leaning in when cooking)and cost (he was told) €3500.  google new age stone.


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