# Gay young people



## Purple (30 Jun 2010)

I was at the Greenday concert with my eldest son last week and there were two girls beside us who were obviously a couple. They were in their teens, maybe 17-18. I found myself feeling proud of them despite not knowing them and hope if any of my children are gay they will have the courage those two have to openly embrace who they are and not try to deny who they are for the sake of any outmoded convention.

How do the other parents on here feel on the topic?


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## z104 (30 Jun 2010)

Were they good looking


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## Teatime (30 Jun 2010)

Hot lesbo action eh?! I am sure your son was well impressed


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## MrMan (30 Jun 2010)

or they possibly were trying to distance themselves from convention and were acting out, thus not being true to themselves.


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## Caveat (1 Jul 2010)

Possibly MrMan - but I think the converse is more likely.

I'm not a parent but I'll answer anyway 

I've noticed this openly gay thing amongst younger people since around the mid 90s and I think it's great.

I think teenagers in general are less inhibited than they were in my day anyway (lad).

They are also more optimistic about options open to them in life and less concerned about convention - even within their own subcultures. E.g. an "Emo" kid might think nothing of letting it be known that he is mad into football even though it's 'against the rules' as it were. A full on metal girl might like sewing and cups of tea - and wouldn't care who knows it.

In my time we were all much more circumspect about these things. Sexuality these days is as mundane as which beer you prefer - and I for one am glad.

Of course yes, there is an element of "oh aren't we shocking" but I think it's the minority. Teenagers eh?

I'm waiting for the day that to stand out and make a statement, kids are going to wantonly display the fact that they *don't* have tattoos/piercings etc, are into the most conventional 'musak' around, and are fiercely straight.


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## z104 (1 Jul 2010)

Or come out as Hetrosexuals.


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## Ciaraella (1 Jul 2010)

MrMan said:


> or they possibly were trying to distance themselves from convention and were acting out, thus not being true to themselves.


 
Quite possible but also good to see that young people are not afraid to stand out, i know that when i was a teenager, only 10 years ago there were many who would do anything to blend in with the crowd, rightly or wrongly i think lots of young people have much more confidence than even ten years ago.

I'm not a parent but i remember watching 'growing up gay' in ireland on rte (I think) last year and promising myself that if i'm lucky enough to have kids that i'll always try to communicate to them that i'll love and support them no matter what. There's nothing as heartbreaking to see as parents criticising/condemning their children for a reason like sexuality when at the end of the day what most children want is their parents approval.


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## ney001 (1 Jul 2010)

I think it's so much easier for gay people these days, particularly young gay people.  My sister is in secondary school and knows of two girls who are openly gay and it's just accepted; in m  I know of a man in his 70's now who is gay but has spent his entire life alone living in a small village because he just wouldn't dream of having a partner for fear of what people will think, he is of a generation that just can't be open about such things.  I myself genuinely wouldn't care if my children were gay once they were happy in themselves about it and can accept it themselves.


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## Sunny (1 Jul 2010)

I think it is a sin.


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## Purple (1 Jul 2010)

Niallers said:


> Were they good looking


One was, one wasn't. The usual 


Teatime said:


> Hot lesbo action eh?! I am sure your son was well impressed


 It wasn't that hot, I've seen better on the porno-net.


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## Latrade (1 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I think it is a sin.


 
C'mon, an old fogie trying to "be still with it man" by going to a Green Day concert isn't that bad. Not that I agree with it, some of my best friends are old fogies still trying to be with it, but what they get up to is up to them as long as they don't harm anyone else.

I just wish they wouldn't flaunt it so blatantly. Think of the children.


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## Purple (1 Jul 2010)

Latrade said:


> C'mon, an old fogie trying to "be still with it man" by going to a Green Day concert isn't that bad. Not that I agree with it, some of my best friends are old fogies still trying to be with it, but what they get up to is up to them as long as they don't harm anyone else.
> 
> I just wish they wouldn't flaunt it so blatantly. Think of the children.



Lol 
There were plenty of people there older than me (in their 40's, 50's and 60's) so I didn't stand out that much.


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## TarfHead (1 Jul 2010)

Purple said:


> Lol
> There were plenty of people there older than me (in their 40's, 50's and 60's) so I didn't stand out that much.


 
And they were just the band ?



Speaking to my brother-in-law the other day, he had me in stitches with his tale of him, and other fathers, wandering aimlessly around The Point while his daughter enjoyed some band ( who I hadn't heard of when he told me, and can't remember now - something to do with the Twilight movies  ?) in concert. He reckoned they really should have some sort of a creche for such 'lost souls'.

Back on topic, through half paying attention to the witterings of my wife's teenage niece, the practice of coming out seems to be way above what I assumed to be the national average (1 on 10) ? Are they all making an honest declaration of their sexual orientation, or is it part of contemporary teenage behaviour, or is she just bluffing  ?


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## Betsy Og (1 Jul 2010)

Parents can make you laugh sometimes - mine are late 60's & 70's, recently when talking to my Mam (forget the exact context) but it was mentioned that so and so was/could be gay - and she seemed genuinely horrified/bewildered - a bit like Donal Og's dad who wanted to get him "fixed".

Years ago she enquired as to what the word that sounds like anchor meant and was again appalled, though that subject is also now much less taboo.

So its a generational thing. Also as a rural dweller I thing such attiude changes take longer to emerge in rural areas - its not like there a visible gay scene in rural Ireland (or if there is I'm oblivious to it), whereas in cities theres probably a wide awareness at least of gay bars. Plus rural ireland doesnt offer the anonimity of cities so I'd say its a brutal place to live if gay.


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## TarfHead (1 Jul 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> Parents can make you laugh sometimes - mine are late 60's & 70's, recently when talking to my Mam (forget the exact context) but it was mentioned that so and so was/could be gay - and she seemed genuinely horrified/bewildered ..


 
My parents, in the year between getting married and the birth of my sister, used to go into the city (Dublin) for a night out. My father liked to go to the pubs that were popular with the literary crowd, e.g. Behan, Kavanagh, etc.

In Davy Byrnes one night my mother was astonished to see 2 men kissing. From a small town in Co. Dongeal, she had never heard of such a thing. My father explained it to her and also shed some light on why a neighbour of hers, in the same small Co. Donegal town, was known as '_John the Lady_'  !


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## Complainer (1 Jul 2010)

I remember having to explain to my 50-something mother what 'hetrosexual' meant, when I was about 12.


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## truthseeker (2 Jul 2010)

TarfHead said:


> In Davy Byrnes one night my mother was astonished to see 2 men kissing. From a small town in Co. Dongeal, she had never heard of such a thing.


 
In the mid 90s I worked for a Saudi Arabian in the US (J1 visa). He was only in his 20s and wasnt fully acclimatised to western culture (he thought all us girls were very immodest in clothing wearing shorts and vest tops for example).

He was terribly interesting to talk to about cultural differences. He told me he had never even heard of the concept of homosexuality until he came to America and that there was no word for it in his language that he knew of. It just wasnt something that he had ever thought of or knew existed. 

He didnt think there was anything wrong with it (where I worked for him was in a very popular gay resort so there was a lot of open homosexuality about) and said that if any of his children were homosexual he would be ok with it - but that they could only be homosexual in a particular culture, it would never work back in his home town as they would be ostracised and he wouldnt want that for them - nor would he want it badly reflected on him. So if it came to it and he had to go back to Saudi Arabia he wouldnt accept a gay child, but it would be ok in America - but fundamentally he didnt mind the concept of homosexuality.


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## Caveat (2 Jul 2010)

truthseeker said:


> He told me he had never even heard of the concept of homosexuality until he came to America...


 
C'mon, he had never even *heard* of the concept? 

A bit of a cultural dig at the decadent west there I think. For it to be illegal in countries there has to be a pretty strong awareness of the concept or the existence of gay people.


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## Firefly (2 Jul 2010)

TarfHead said:


> My father explained it to her and also shed some light on why a neighbour of hers, in the same small Co. Donegal town, was known as '_John the Lady_'  !


 
Never knew the head of the FAI was from Donegal


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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Purple said:


> How do the other parents on here feel on the topic?


I have a very strong preference that none of my children turn out/are (I don't know whether the in vogue reason for being gay is by choice or by nature) gay.  I suspect that many (most) parents would have a similar view, if not express it publicly.  Equally I would expect mine to be in the minority of expressed views on AAM.


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> I have a very strong preference that none of my children turn out/are (I don't know whether the in vogue reason for being gay is by choice or by nature) gay. I suspect that many (most) parents would have a similar view, if not express it publicly. Equally I would expect mine to be in the minority of expressed views on AAM.


 
I think it is a fair reaction considering the amount of rubbish that gay people still have to put up with (getting better though). I presume it is not the actual 'gay' part that you have the problem with of course.


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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I think it is a fair reaction considering the amount of rubbish that gay people still have to put up with (getting better though). I presume it is not the actual 'gay' part that you have the problem with of course.


Well, I'll presume you're not being disingenuous and simply baiting me, but you presume too much.


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## DB74 (2 Jul 2010)

I have a terrible fear of lesbains - they make me feel very unwanted and useless!


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## fobs (2 Jul 2010)

I would hope that none of my kids are gay but if they are then I will accept them. It would not be my preference for them though.


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## Complainer (2 Jul 2010)

Caveat said:


> C'mon, he had never even *heard* of the concept?


Bet he know a thing or two about camels, mind you.


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> Well, I'll presume you're not being disingenuous and simply baiting me, but you presume too much.


 
I am not baiting you but I don't believe that the majority of parents in this country would be upset that their kids turned out gay because they have problems with the whole idea of homosexuality. I think most people would just prefer that their kids did not have to suffer prejudice.


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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I am not baiting you but I don't believe that the majority of parents in this country would be upset that their kids turned out gay because they have problems with the whole idea of homosexuality. I think must people would just prefer that their kids did not have to suffer prejudice.


Fair enough.  We just differ on the rationale for parents preference for a hetero child so.


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## Complainer (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> Fair enough.  We just differ on the rationale for parents preference for a hetero child so.


Perhaps you might like to explain the rationale for your own preference so.


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## truthseeker (2 Jul 2010)

Caveat said:


> C'mon, he had never even *heard* of the concept?


 
Thats what he claimed. I disputed this as well - but he was from a small village and had come to America as an 18 year old - so its possible he was just naive.

And Complainer - he WAS aware of the concept of beastiality


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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Complainer said:


> Perhaps you might like to explain the rationale for your own preference so.


Not particularly, I don't really want to get into a PIAF (not the deceased French warbler) debate.  It suffices to say that I view homosexuality as an aberration.  That said I don't care what consenting adults get up to, but I do have an issue with the gay agenda.


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## Caveat (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> Not particularly, I don't really want to get into a PIAF (not the deceased French warbler) debate. It suffices to say that I view homosexuality as an aberration. That said I don't care what consenting adults get up to, but I do have an issue with *the gay agenda*.


 
As I understand it you are fairly staunchly catholic and conservative in your views - not an intended insult, just an observation.  And that's fine.

But the highlighted phrase looks seriously like right wing paranoia to me.


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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Caveat said:


> As I understand it you are fairly staunchly  catholic and conservative in your views - not an intended insult, just  an observation.  And that's fine.
> 
> But the highlighted phrase looks seriously like right wing paranoia to  me.


I'm a failed agnostic but my views aren't informed by religion.  I'm definitely right of centre on many issues.   I don't believe I'm paranoid but as the saying goes "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you" .


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## Purple (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I am not baiting you but I don't believe that the majority of parents in this country would be upset that their kids turned out gay because they have problems with the whole idea of homosexuality. I think most people would just prefer that their kids did not have to suffer prejudice.


 That's my view, though upset might be a bit strong.


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## Complainer (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> PIAF


??????
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## michaelm (2 Jul 2010)

Pointless Internet Argument Forum.


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## Latrade (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I am not baiting you but I don't believe that the majority of parents in this country would be upset that their kids turned out gay because they have problems with the whole idea of homosexuality. I think most people would just prefer that their kids did not have to suffer prejudice.


 
I'll stick my neck out on this and even accept any bashing and shouts of hypocrasy, bigotry or whatever.

I don't have any issue with being gay (insert cliche that some of my best friends etc). Sexuality doesn't concern me, doesn't shock me, doesn't enter into my thought process. It's who you are, same as they're short, tall, dark, fair, etc. 

But, if I had a preference would I prefer a child to be "straight"? Yes. Is this because they'll face prejudice and I want to protect them? I'd love to say yes it is. I'd love to keep my liberal, accepting, understanding, inclusive, diversity tag and say any reservation would be because I didn't want my child to suffer any harm. But that'd be a lie, it's because I just would prefer them to be straight.

I know if they were gay I would support them and it really wouldn't bother me or affect my relationship, but if the question is "preference", I'd prefer them to be straight. I could spout some pseudo-scientific justification that it's because being straight means I have a greater chance of my genetic material passed on for another generation. Yeah, that's it, genetic material. But no, I'd just prefer them to be straight. 

Maybe there's a psychoanalysis argument that it's to do with "sharing" things as father and son or whatever, maybe Freud would suspect latent, hidden stuff deep down. 

It's completely hypocritical, it's completely against my own moral compass, I disgree with michaelm's views on the nature of being gay, but I stand by my preference.


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2010)

Latrade said:


> I'll stick my neck out on this and even accept any bashing and shouts of hypocrasy, bigotry or whatever.
> 
> I don't have any issue with being gay (insert cliche that some of my best friends etc). Sexuality doesn't concern me, doesn't shock me, doesn't enter into my thought process. It's who you are, same as they're short, tall, dark, fair, etc.
> 
> ...


 
It's fair enough. I will leave the psycho-analysis to someone better qualified!


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## Vanilla (2 Jul 2010)

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, Latrade, but how much of your opinion is informed by how gay people are _today_.

Because I genuinely feel that what a 'gay person' is like today will be changed substantially- already has changed and will continue to do so due to the changes in society. 

When being gay becomes mainstream, accepted, on a par with not being gay- then our perception of what a gay person is will also change.

They will no longer be someone apart from the norm, they will just be the norm.

I'm explaining it badly, but I think some peoples fear of their child being gay is because of what they think being gay means- something different. And when mainstream society accepts them as not being different, the fear will be gone.


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## Latrade (2 Jul 2010)

Vanilla said:


> I'm explaining it badly, but I think some peoples fear of their child being gay is because of what they think being gay means- something different. And when mainstream society accepts them as not being different, the fear will be gone.


 
Being honest, for me it's nothing to do with that, well in the main. I think being gay is slowly getting to the point where it is no longer whispered behind hands, where it is accepted. I see myself as being part of that inclusive group of people for who it really isn't an issue, the personal caveat is that I think the inclusion and diversity is great, I fully support rights and equality, I fully support people being accepted and comfortable even if they're of a different sexuality to me...just as long as it's someone else's child.

As I say, if a child of mine was gay, I'd love them and support them with every once of being I have. I'd just prefer if they were straight. I accept that probably means there's some latent homophobia there.


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## Teatime (2 Jul 2010)

michaelm said:


> "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you" .


 
Class quote


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## truthseeker (2 Jul 2010)

I wouldnt care less if I had a child who turned out to be gay.

What would bother me would be if I had a child who turned out to be a nasty person.


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## Ceist Beag (2 Jul 2010)

Latrade pretty much sums up my thoughts. Maybe it's because I would like my kids to be more like me I dunno but yeah in terms of preference I'd prefer if they were straight.


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> Latrade pretty much sums up my thoughts. Maybe it's because I would like my kids to be more like me I dunno but yeah in terms of preference I'd prefer if they were straight.


 
I wonder would gay people prefer their kids to be gay!


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## Firefly (2 Jul 2010)

Latrade said:


> As I say, if a child of mine was gay, I'd love them and support them with every once of being I have. I'd just prefer if they were straight. I accept that probably means there's some latent homophobia there.


 
I'm with you on this Latrade and you did a better job than I could in explaning it without offending anyone.


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## Ceist Beag (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I wonder would gay people prefer their kids to be gay!



So even though I preempt my thought with "maybe" and end it with "I dunno" you have to pick this up as a contentious statement Sunny! I probably should have followed the same line as Firefly and just said I agreed with Latrade!


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## Sunny (2 Jul 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> So even though I preempt my thought with "maybe" and end it with "I dunno" you have to pick this up as a contentious statement Sunny! I probably should have followed the same line as Firefly and just said I agreed with Latrade!



No no, wasn't aimed at you at all. Just wondering if it worked the other way!


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## Betsy Og (2 Jul 2010)

I would also prefer my kids to be straight, just from the point of view that a) its what I know (ok not a great reason) and b) I'm looking forward (already) to playing with my grandchildren and, without getting into the whole gay marriage & right to adopt or whatever, I think it would be lot more strightforward if those grandkids were as a result of a marriage of man and woman. 

A traditional outlook I know, but not to say its less valid that others. But to re-iterate, like all other posters, if my kids were gay I'd just had to bottle my initial dissappointment (arising from selfish reasons) and make sure I supported them in every way I could - its their life, their right to be happy, what I want for them doesnt count as compared to what they want for themselves.


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## DB74 (2 Jul 2010)

Civil partnerships for same-sex couples coming next year

Personally I would prefer either same-sex couples get full marital rights OR else that hetero couples can avail of the same legislation

Its discrimination otherwise IMO

[broken link removed]


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## MANTO (2 Jul 2010)

Sunny said:


> I wonder would gay people prefer their kids to be gay!



haha very good 

I have read this with great interest. I am a 28 year old gay male and not one thing said here has bothered me, if anything, i think its great that people are having an honest, intelligent conversation.

For those who would prefer their kids to be straight, of course they would when you look back over the past years. It was frowned upon, it was the 'Them' attitude. There were beatings and bullying.

But, attitudes change as does society as do people. When i came out at 17 and started going to gay bars / clubs, every second person walking by as you entered the bar would be gawking at you like you were entering the realm of all evil.

Today, not one person would bat an eyelid. Infact, it got to the point in the George (dublins main gay club) that they had to start turing away straight people (what does that say).

But all in all, if your child does turn out to be gay, be there to support them. When i told my parents on a saturday morning over a cup of tea, the first thing my father said was - are you happy - the second thing he asked - when are you bringing us into the George. I was extremely lucky but i have met many a friend over the years who have no contact with their family and its very very sad.

Those families and the gay child have missed out on so much. 

On a light hearted note - I can see why poeple look funny at the extremely loud camp gays running around - I look at them funny too


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