# Mass Verbal Warning.



## listerine (5 Nov 2008)

Hi people.
I have a query, I have a good idea of the response but all the same would like some feedback.

17 night workers were all invited into the office for a meeting ( no pre-notice of what we we're to be seen about ), after 14 turned up, (3 went back to work ) we got informed that we were having a verbal warning, because 5 of these night workers left work early, after our so called meeting was through,  an ordinary worker was informed to  explain to the  other  3  that they had  also  been  given  this verbal  warning.

As this has just happened we have had no letter from the company.
Surely the 5 guilty should have recieved this warning, and only those 5.

Steve


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## WaterSprite (5 Nov 2008)

That's outrageous.  It reminds me of national school where the whole class was punished if someone didn't own up to something.  What a crock.

And it has no legal basis.  

If you are in a union, then bring it up with your union rep and have the verbal warning expunged.  If not, I don't know if it's worth doing anything other than ignoring it.  If you (or any of the other innocent parties) gets another warning and this "verbal warning" is taken into account as a step already taken in the disciplinary process, then I'd challenge it at that stage.  They can't use this "verbal warning" as a stepping stone in any disciplinary process.


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## gillarosa (5 Nov 2008)

Hi Steve,

Sounds like a case where the Manager isn't full acquainted with Labour Laws or even what constitutes a verbal warning, maybe they meant it as more of a "I warn ya, don't be leaving early and skiving off as its been noticed"

You could approach the Manager or whomever arranged the meeting and explain your concerns. As you don't want your file with the Employer, if they have one, marked as having a verbal warning for absence marked against it.

M


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## Smashbox (5 Nov 2008)

WaterSprite said:


> That's outrageous. It reminds me of national school where the whole class was punished if someone didn't own up to something. What a crock.
> 
> And it has no legal basis.


 
I agree, and would take this further if it were me. I'd be raging! Its fair if the employer gives a warning to the five responsible, and then tells everyone that an eye will be kept on this thing happening, but no way can you all be warned in this manner.


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## z103 (5 Nov 2008)

> I agree, and would take this further if it were me.


But be careful!
Could it be the case that job losses are on the cards? How well is the company doing?


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## Purple (5 Nov 2008)

gillarosa said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Sounds like a case where the Manager isn't full acquainted with Labour Laws or even what constitutes a verbal warning, maybe they meant it as more of a "I warn ya, don't be leaving early and skiving off as its been noticed"
> 
> ...


This is good advice. Expressions of outrage are OTT.


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## Flax (5 Nov 2008)

gillarosa said:


> maybe they meant it as more of a "I warn ya, don't be leaving early and skiving off as its been noticed"


 
I also reckon this is what the boss meant.


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## Smashbox (5 Nov 2008)

listerine said:


> we got informed that we were having a verbal warning


 
This doesn't sound like a quick chatty warning, a verbal warning is a verbal warning and a step in the disciplinary line of action.


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## Welfarite (5 Nov 2008)

I certainblky would be suspicious of the motive for this approach. It may be a way of starting a "sacking process" for everyone in order to avoid redundancy payments down the line.


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## Purple (5 Nov 2008)

Welfarite said:


> I certainblky would be suspicious of the motive for this approach. It may be a way of starting a "sacking process" for everyone in order to avoid redundancy payments down the line.



It would not stand up to any scrutiny so I doubt it.


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## listerine (8 Nov 2008)

thanks guys.

This was my thoughts but just needed extended support away from my collegues...lol


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Nov 2008)

Listerine

Your post is a bit difficult to understand because you don't seem to like full stops. Could you please take a bit more time over future posts to punctuate them correctly.

There is no need for outrage at all. There is no need to join the Irish Society of Conspiracy Theorists and anticipate this is a way for the company to avoid paying redundancy in the event of lay-offs. 

It is perfectly valid for a manager to call in their employees and tell them that standards in general have fallen and that the team must improve its performance. 

You should simply ask the manager who gave the warning or their boss for clarification that this is what they were doing.

Brendan


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## television (8 Nov 2008)

Brendan said:


> Listerine
> It is perfectly valid for a manager to call in their employees and tell them that standards in general have fallen and that the team must improve its performance.
> Brendan


 
Valid perhaps to have a general chat about standards etc, not valid to issue all the workers with a formal verbal warning about leaving early when it only related to five of the workers.


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## ajapale (8 Nov 2008)

Is there trade union in the company? or in the industry?

In general TU's will resist this type of direct mass communication between the employer and employees.

Having said that I dont think there is any thing to stop the practice.

Was this simply a meeting at which the practice of leaving early was highlighted and the neccessity to improve pointed out or in addition was each employees file updated with a note to the effect that they had been given a formal verbal warning?


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## Miracle Girl (8 Nov 2008)

if this was an official verbal warning then this is normally viewed as the first stage of the companys disciplinary process and best practice would suggest that you be given notice of an impending investigation and a right to representation at any subsequent disciplinary interview. you would also be allowed the right to appeal and this should clearly be set out in any letter you get confirming your oral warning.
Before the disciplianary process is invoked then you should have been made aware that there was a problem (ie lateness skiving of early etc) in an informal manner and a team briefing in the case you describe above would be seen as that.
(exceptions would be in the case of gross misconduct ie stealing , hitting and picking on colleagues etc)

If as a result of the meeting above you have all been issued with a formal verbal warning (ie its on your file regardless of if you are guilty or not as opposed to your manager "verbally" telling you all to stop skiving off early!) then this is grossly unfair and *you should appeal in the first* *instance*. Natural justice must be used when completing the diciplianry process and this has clearly not happened here.
Do not wait and see what happens if you are investigated personally on something else in the future and they "claim" you have already recieved a verbal warning! if you do they will say that by you not appealing the first time then this indicates that you accepted the original warning.!!
you can take a " formal verbal warning "to the rights commisioners after you have exhausted the appeal process.

Good luck


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## Doolox (12 Nov 2008)

Have your HR department look into it. For a start they will give you access to your file so you can see whats written on it. A verbal warning has to be rocorded on file and you are entitled to see that file at a reasonable period of notice. Also it helps to know that your record should be erased after 1 year and you should check that this is the case.
If you are in a small company that doesn't have a HR department then you might have to resort to the NERA, National Employment Rights Agency who will put you on the right track. 
It is important to keep calm and "leave emotion at the door" when dealing with any issues at work. Record everything and get everything in writing.
Most employers are well aware of the law as it relates to employment and would not risk litigation trying to hassle their employees into leaving when a few thousand usually sorts it out, as opposed to the 10's of thousands even the simplest court case would cost.
By keeping an organised approach to the problem you will show that you are not a pushover, are guilty of nothing and have something positive to contribute to the company, not likely to be let go


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