# Decided we need a house extension. How do I get myself properly informed on the process?



## buckfast (31 Mar 2016)

Hey All,


My partner and I have just purchased a new house and it needs redecorating and also an extension. There is a small existing extension at the rear, and we would like to add onto this, but still keeping below the area limit beyond which planning permission is required.


This is all new territory for me and I just wonder if anybody has any recommendations for what I should be reading up on in order to best inform myself on the do’s and don’ts, building standards, costs (how do I know I am getting value for money), architects, surveyors etc.


Any help is sincerely appreciated.


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## nutty nut (1 Apr 2016)

You wont be able to add to a side extension as its not exempted development. Planning permission will be required.

There are lots of rules and regs you do have to comply with so I would suggest you engage a local architect, engineer or architectural technician to keep you right.


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## buckfast (1 Apr 2016)

Thanks . I should be OK as its a rear extension, not to the side


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## BlackandBlue (1 Apr 2016)

buckfast said:


> Hey All,
> 
> 
> My partner and I have just purchased a new house and it needs redecorating and also an extension. There is a small existing extension at the rear, and we would like to add onto this, but still keeping below the area limit beyond which planning permission is required.
> ...


Its new to you but how old is it?
How old is the extension?
Would it support your bigger extension or would it need to be demolished first?

You say "just purchased" so I assume you had an engineer do a survey for you?

You may be better off paying them to advise you.


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## buckfast (1 Apr 2016)

Yes we had an engineer do a survey. But the report does not go into such detail. We will be getting professionals such as architects etc, but what I am really thinking is that it is not the wisest thing to just pay somebody and sit back thinking all will be 100%. Its always been my experience to be as well informed as possible in these situations. I know I am not being specific. But would hope people who've been through this before might be able to guide me on what to look out for, even while employing an architect or engineer.


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## Leper (2 Apr 2016)

Hi Buckfast, Speaking as a guy who employed a builder to extend our house, convert the garage and build new bedrooms overhead in the distant past, I think I have been through the mill and am fairly qualified to advise.

Our builder after doing some extensions in the area took a turn for the worse (alcoholism) when he started ours. What had taken six weeks in other houses started to run into six months + in ours.  I was foolish enough to pay the builder in advance, but held a few bob back until completion. After elastic forgivenesses from me, (and in the interests of brevity here) I sacked the builder.  He sacked his workers.  I re-employed two of his workers (the other four were the greatest dossers in the history of the state, and I am being kind in my description).

You could employ a Project Manager who will charge you about 10% of the full building amount.  The PM will probably know the builder anyway and one way or another you will feel that you flushed the 10% money down the toilet.

My Hard Earned Advice:- (i) Pay the builder at different stages of the building work.  Do not part with any money until you are fully satisfied that the work is done properly. Builders take short-cuts, be aware of this.
(ii) Get Planning Permission. I don't care what you believe to be below the requirement of what you need.

Epilogue (as in all good Hollywood Quinn-Martin Productions):- My drink crazed builder sued me through a solicitor having threatened me with violence previously.  The solicitor threatened me with court action, costs, an entry in Stubbs etc.  I told the solicitor (another inspired twit) "to bring it on!" That was the last I heard from either the solicitor or the builder . . . and I lived happily ever after.


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## Sue Ellen (2 Apr 2016)

I would agree with the planning permission, project manager and staged payments.  In the meantime educate yourself through any free reading that you can find on the internet.

[broken link removed]


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## buckfast (2 Apr 2016)

I'm intrigued about why I should apply for planning permission. If below 40 sq meter and follows the other conditions, and we hire architect or an engineer - who will know about what qualifies as exempt and what doesn't - then why would I go through unnecessary admin and expense of the planning process?


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## postman pat (2 Apr 2016)

buckfast said:


> I'm intrigued about why I should apply for planning permission. If below 40 sq meter and follows the other conditions, and we hire architect or an engineer - who will know about what qualifies as exempt and what doesn't - then why would I go through unnecessary admin and expense of the planning process?


Hi Buckfast,
               im intrigued a little by your reaction to the advice you asked for and got!
I have found from experience that you need qualified professionals for a good outcome, as there are so many pitfalls,dodgy builders,planning restrictions,neighbours complaining etc and by the way not ALL estates are exempt from planning(40 sq metres or not)


 Pat


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## Insidesmoke (2 Apr 2016)

Doing a full renovation at the moment after buying a place in November. Didn't bother with an architect as wasn't building anything new. Get detailed plans drawn up by an engineer or draughtsman. Knocking an internal load bearing wall, complete rewire, new plumbing system, insulation, floor etc. Have a structural engineer look the place over. Put the plans out to tender (i.e. get the names of a few builders and contact them). Most importantly get a recommendation for a builder. Can't stress this point enough. We have a builder recommended by a trusted source. Not cheap but very good - takes a lot of pride in his work. Try use a local one, so that their reputation matters. Cost is a tricky one, they're never cheap and will always quote you the high end. At the moment the good ones are busy. Project Manager - don't see the point. The builder will just out source most jobs anyway. Only use a PM if you're sourcing the plumber, sparky, etc. Otherwise leave it to the builder.


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## Leper (3 Apr 2016)

buckfast said:


> I'm intrigued about why I should apply for planning permission. If below 40 sq meter and follows the other conditions, and we hire architect or an engineer - who will know about what qualifies as exempt and what doesn't - then why would I go through unnecessary admin and expense of the planning process?



An architect will design, an engineer will advise on building and neither are really concerned with planning laws. If they say they are, don't believe them. In fact, it can be of benefit to them when planning permission is refused. Talk to anybody (especially in our main holiday areas) the difficulties of trying to get architect designed/engineer-influenced buildings through the planning process. The Healy-Rae's made political gain on their advice of the planning process in Co-Kerry, I kid you not.

Let's say you go ahead and build your extension to learn after completion that you should have applied for planning permission.  The cost of applying is very little when compared to your spend. That few bob spent probably will save you a fortune later. What if you are informed that even after completion you must apply for retention of the build? What if you are ordered to take down the extension? Don't play God, apply for planning permission and do everything right. You're talking about on extension to an existing extension and from where I sit these are usually disasters. Use your head, apply for planning permission.


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## newirishman (3 Apr 2016)

Leper said:


> An architect will design, an engineer will advise on building and neither are really concerned with planning laws. If they say they are, don't believe them. In fact, it can be of benefit to them when planning permission is refused. Talk to anybody (especially in our main holiday areas) the difficulties of trying to get architect designed/engineer-influenced buildings through the planning process. The Healy-Rae's made political gain on their advice of the planning process in Co-Kerry, I kid you not.
> 
> Let's say you go ahead and build your extension to learn after completion that you should have applied for planning permission.  The cost of applying is very little when compared to your spend. That few bob spent probably will save you a fortune later. What if you are informed that even after completion you must apply for retention of the build? What if you are ordered to take down the extension? Don't play God, apply for planning permission and do everything right. You're talking about on extension to an existing extension and from where I sit these are usually disasters. Use your head, apply for planning permission.



I wouldn't try to go through planning process without an architect. Apart from being familiar with the planning process as well as planning laws, an experienced architect knows usually what's possible with the planners and what's likely to cause issues. 
I'd disagree with your statement that architects are not concerned about planning laws.
Agree though that you should always apply for planning permission. It is cheap enough and makes things much easier when you're trying to sell the place.


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## buckfast (3 Apr 2016)

Pat, nobody had outlined the reasons why i should seek planning permission. Now that i have that advice and understand the reasoning, I'm in a better position to make a decision.  Don't jump the gun.


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## postman pat (3 Apr 2016)

buckfast said:


> Pat, nobody had outlined the reasons why i should seek planning permission. Now that i have that advice and understand the reasoning, I'm in a better position to make a decision.  Don't jump the gun.



???


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## Bronte (4 Apr 2016)

Leper said:


> My Hard Earned Advice:- (i) Pay the builder at different stages of the building work.  Do not part with any money until you are fully satisfied that the work is done properly. Builders take short-cuts, be aware of this.
> 
> .



I'll second this advice and add a *good* builder is worth the cost.


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## Leo (4 Apr 2016)

postman pat said:


> ???



A few posters recommended getting planning for a planned exempt development without offering a reason, the OP simply asked why. Not sure why you felt the need to question that, OP is simply trying to educate themselves, as is the purpose of this forum.


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## Clubber Lang (4 Apr 2016)

Just coming at this from another angle - Buckfast, what do you plan on handing over to the builder to price?

Are you going to draft up detail drawings and a building specification yourself?  Just this is where you will get caught in terms of additional costs through possible unknowns and the subsequent on-site arguments over whether certain elements were supposed to be included in the original scope of works.

With this in mind, I would recommend engaging with a professional unless you think you can do it.

Going back to the dilemma over planning - if going down the professional route - before committing to anything, ask if you need planning and talk out the costs from there; you can always walk away and re-think things if not happy, and like with sourcing a builder - seek price estimates from at least 3 professionals.


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## BlackandBlue (9 Apr 2016)

There is currently an extension that they are aware of but what other amendments were made to the original house?
How do they know what they propose is exempt?

The average person has very little real knowledge of building and the associated standards/regulations.
Not to mention the local development plan(s).

There is loads of information available on the internet.
Sorting the relevancy can be difficult.
You can find very general info and guidance but the specific application to a specific building on a specific site will not always be so clear cut.

Getting planning permission for any major external change will ensure that everything is as it should be.

In the future should they decide to sell there will be no questions about the "extension".

Remember this is your money. Spend a little to save a lot.


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