# Refused refund on faulty product



## Helen (13 Feb 2006)

Hi,

I recently purchased a product (hands free car kit) which turned out to be faulty. The vendor admitted the product is faulty but is refusing to give me a refund as I don't have the original packaging. The original packaging was a bubbled plastic casing which needed to be cut through with a scissors to access the product so I can't understand why it would be of any use to anyone. 
I've tried complaining to a supervisor in the customer care department but she is standing her ground. I've also emailed consumer affairs, so waiting on a reply from them.
Does anyone know if they are entitled to refuse the refund on this basis?

Thanks


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## tiger (13 Feb 2006)

No.

According to this summary of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980. on the [broken link removed]


_If goods are not of merchantable quality or are not fit for their purpose or are not as described the consumer is entitled to a remedy. 

_
_If the reason for the complaint is not trivial and is discovered soon after purchase, the consumer is entitled to reject the goods and insist on a full refund provided prompt action is action is taken. 

__If the goods have been used for some time, or if there is undue delay in making the complaint, or if there is reason to believe that the goods have been accepted, the consumer's entitlement, at best, may be to a repair or to a partial refund._


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2006)

If the goods were faulty then you are entitled to a refund regardless of the packaging issue. From what you've posted the vendor hasn't a leg to stand on. Check out or contact ConsumerConnect, [broken link removed] and/or  for more information on your statutory rights. The  is always an option if it comes to it.


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## gauloise (13 Feb 2006)

Hi Helen,

Here is a reply I received from the concumer affairs which you might find useful.
Thank you for your e-mail, concerning your faulty television.
The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 gives various rights
to consumers, in particular, that goods should be of merchantable
quality, that is fit for their purpose and reasonably durable. Where
these conditions are not met, you may be entitled to a repair,
replacement or refund.
I would point out that disputes involving the quality of goods and
services are matters of civil law, and, as such, must be resolved by the
parties themselves, if necessary by recourse to the courts. As the
retailer has offered a repair you may accept this once it is of a
permanent nature and satisfactory. It must also be completed within a
reasonable period of time. However the retailer is not obliged to
provide a replacement while repairs are being carried out. Should you
not be happy with the repair on return of your television you may then
seek a replacement or refund.
For more information on your rights as a consumer all our publications
can be viewed on our website at [broken link removed]

Here is the mail of the person who dealy very quickly with my query: Elisa_Goode@entemp.ie..

Good luck!


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2006)

Poor show on the _ODCA's _part not to point out the _Small Claims Court_ option here!


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## Marion (13 Feb 2006)

Return of the product with packaging will only be relevant if you happen to change your mind about the good and it may well be a term of the sale.

However, the good is faulty and so you are entitled to your consumer rights.

Marion


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## DrMoriarty (13 Feb 2006)

Helen said:
			
		

> The vendor admitted the product is faulty but is refusing to give me a refund as I don't have the original packaging.


Are they planning to knowingly resell a faulty product to someone else?  

I'd be very insistent, and I'd ask the supervisor who has so far wasted your time to confirm her full name, so that you can be sure of spelling it correctly in your letter of complaint to company headquarters.


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## gauloise (13 Feb 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Poor show on the _ODCA's _part not to point out the _Small Claims Court_ option here!


 
Hi Clubman,

They did in fact point out small claims court, I thought my message was too long hence probably edited too much..here is the rest:

In this regard, the small claims procedure is a special mechanism for
dealing with small claims within the District Court structure and is
designed to handle consumer claims cheaply and informally without
involving a solicitor. Claims involving amounts up to €1,269.74 may be
dealt with through this procedure and details of the District Court
Offices and Small Claims Registrars are given in the telephone book.
Applications forms can be downloaded from the Courts Service website
www.courts.ie


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2006)

Fair enough - thanks for the clarification. Note that the _SCC _limit was recently increased to €2K although the fee was also increased (from €9 to €15 I think).


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## Helen (13 Feb 2006)

Thanks gauloise for posting your reply from the ODCA. 

I had read the summary of the sale of goods act and spent 30 minutes on the phone to a supervisor arguing about it but she is insistent that the act covers them if I don't have the packaging. 
After 30 minutes I just had to give up and am going to pursue it through other avenues.

When I get a reply from the ODCA (and if it confirms my position), I will forward it to her as I have her email address and see what her reply is. 

Am I allowed to post the name of the shop as naming and shaming would allow me to let off some steam!


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## DrMoriarty (13 Feb 2006)

We have a separate forum for that...

Why not wait until you see how you get on?


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## kazbah (13 Feb 2006)

I don't see anything wrong with naming the shop.  I can't believe they are stll being so insistant even after you have quoted the Act to them.  Stick to your guns and don't let it go!


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## DrMoriarty (13 Feb 2006)

No, there's no reason not to name the shop. They don't seem to have provided a very good service so far...


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## gauloise (13 Feb 2006)

Hi Helen,

Good luck with your case.. I am sure that you will find that you are within your rights..keep us posted!


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## Helen (13 Feb 2006)

Shop in question is the Car Phone Warehouse ... I feel better already!


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2006)

Personally I would have held back on naming them now and used this as a bargaining tool in enforcing the relevant statutory rights - i.e. mention that you might highlight their name and approach to statutory rights on this popular discussion forum called _AAM_.


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## Helen (13 Feb 2006)

I did inform her of my intention to post here at the end of my 30 minute discussion but she wasn't the slightest bit bothered.
Maybe her sales and marketing division would have a different reaction though. Don't think the negative publicity is worth the 100 euros we're talking about.


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## gauloise (13 Feb 2006)

When mext talking to the supervisor remind her of these:
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE] 
[SIZE=-1]At Carphone Warehouse everything we do is based around you, our customer. With this in mind we have *five fundamental rules* that we aim to live by:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]If we don’t look after a customer somebody else will.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Nothing is gained by winning an argument but losing a customer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Always deliver what we promise. If in doubt under promise and over deliver.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Always treat our customers as we ourselves would like to be treated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The reputation of the company is in the hands of each and every individual.[/SIZE]
and tell her that you have forwarded copies of all dealings to 
smackarel@cpw.co.uk the CEO and see if that doesn't get her/him moving!


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## Helen (13 Feb 2006)

Gauloise - that's brilliant! 

I'm going to forward her response to the CEO in the UK. I had also lodged a complaint via email which luckily the same girl ended up answering. So I have a written record of the dispute


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## gauloise (13 Feb 2006)

Let us know how you get on!


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## kazbah (13 Feb 2006)

That is great advice from Gauloise.


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## eiregal (14 Feb 2006)

Why did the consumer affairs office refer to your e-mail about a faulty television when it's a car hands free kit that you bought?


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## ClubMan (14 Feb 2006)

_Helen _posted the original query about the hands free kit. _Gauloise _posted the correspondence about the _TV_.


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## Helen (14 Feb 2006)

Hi,
Just an update to my progress. I emailed the CEO and a representative from his office replied. Here is an excerpt ..

"As you are unable to return the packaging we are unable to offer a full refund, we can offer you a credit note for the full value of the faulty product as a gesture of goodwill.
Once again I apologise for any inconvienence you feel you may have suffered and hope that as a valued customer of ours, you will continue to use us for any of your future mobile communication needs."

Ha ha! I think they should replace "gesture of goodwill" with "because it's the minumum we are required by law to offer".

I've written back reiterating the events and also saying that I would be lodging a complaint with the small claims court. 

I spoke to Consumer Affairs and they agreed that I did not need the packaging to obtain a refund, however I am still waiting on a written response. Gauloise, I wrote directly to your contact and also the contact on the ODCA website. 

I'll keep you updated with what happens next.


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## ClubMan (14 Feb 2006)

Send them these links to apprise them of customers' statutory rights in this context:

ConsumerConnect.ie
[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


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## kazbah (14 Feb 2006)

Well Done Helen - you are doing a very through job following it up!


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## Helen (16 Feb 2006)

Representative from CEO office has finally agreed to giving me a refund.   Thanks all for your support!


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## gauloise (16 Feb 2006)

Hoorah! Well done for sticking to your guns!


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## Proactive (16 Feb 2006)

OMG Well done!


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## ClubMan (16 Feb 2006)

Well done. Shame on the vendor for attempting to abrogate your statutory consumer rights though!


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## Joe1234 (16 Feb 2006)

I recently bought a phone in the carphone warehouse.  Was back with it after a week as there was a fault with it.  Had no packaging.  Got it replaced, no quibble.  I was actually going in with the intention of trying to quote the 1980 act, but it wasn't even necessary.


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## Helen (17 Feb 2006)

Amazing! Which branch was it? 
I bought mine in Stephens Green. 
Maybe it depends on the product. Part of their argument was that they wouldn't get a refund from the manufacturer if they didn't have the packaging. I know that should have no bearing on me, but maybe that's why they would treat the two cases differently?


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