# Returning to Ireland - potential debt from uk employer



## chicco18 (4 Apr 2019)

Hi

Im in the process of returning to Ireland from UK to escape the Brexit madness. My current employer of 5 years have requested that I return my recent bonus payment! Apparently they have recently altered our T&C which allows for this.

Regardless of the legality of this request, if my employer decide to persue the payment in the UK courts, does this debt follow me back to Ireland also? 

If the UK ever manage to leave the EU, wouldn't this  make debt recovery in ireland extremely difficult.

If anyone has any info or experience dealing with these issues your input would be very much appreciated.

Thanks


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## PaddyBloggit (4 Apr 2019)

chicco18 said:


> return my recent bonus payment



em... why don't you return it? If you've broken the T&Cs with regard to it.... then pay it back.

AAM isn't in the business of advising users on how to evade their financial responsibilities.


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## Saavy99 (4 Apr 2019)

chicco18 said:


> Hi
> 
> Im in the process of returning to Ireland from UK to escape the Brexit madness.



You won't escape it here, it never leaves the news morning noon and night, every second news item is Brexit Brexit Brexit


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## Peanuts20 (5 Apr 2019)

Only thing they can do is pass the debt to a collection agency. Without knowing how much the bonus is its hard to say if it is worth their while or not to do so but having such a claim outstanding could influence your credit rating. Can you negotiate with your employer and agree to return a portion of it to save them the cost of trying to collect it. ?

Also you should contact the UK tax office to understand the implications of both paying back a bonus on tax already paid and to see if you are going to be entitled to any kind of rebate if you have not completed a full tax year in employment in the UK


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Apr 2019)

How much is the bonus?

I would be doubtful that they would pursue this unless it is very large. In most cases they just try to scare employees into complying.

They don't want a costly trip to whatever the UK version of the WRC is.


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## chicco18 (5 Apr 2019)

Thanks for all the replies



PaddyBloggit said:


> em... why don't you return it? If you've broken the T&Cs with regard to it.... then pay it back.
> 
> AAM isn't in the business of advising users on how to evade their financial responsibilities.



Its not as straight cut as simply returning it.I am seeking legal advice with regards to whether the employer is permitted to alter the T&Cs without reasonable notice to employees. To me it seems ridiculous that they can claim back a bonus in April 2019, for work carried out in the 2018 year.



Peanuts20 said:


> Only thing they can do is pass the debt to a collection agency. Without knowing how much the bonus is its hard to say if it is worth their while or not to do so but having such a claim outstanding could influence your credit rating. Can you negotiate with your employer and agree to return a portion of it to save them the cost of trying to collect it. ?
> 
> Also you should contact the UK tax office to understand the implications of both paying back a bonus on tax already paid and to see if you are going to be entitled to any kind of rebate if you have not completed a full tax year in employment in the UK



They are seeking c.£10k to be returned. If the situation gets messy, I will try and cut a deal. My biggest fear it that there will be a charge against me in the UK that effects my credit rating in Ireland and my chances of getting a mortgage. I will look into the tax implications also, thanks Peanut.

Does anyone know how easy it will be to hand over a UK debt to a debt collecting agency, for chasing in Ireland?

ps- I cant figure out how to like your posts, but once I do I will like them all, cheers!


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## Saavy99 (6 Apr 2019)

It's extremely doubtful they will chase you in Ireland for a debt of 10,000. The cost of taking this to court will be huge for them.

https://businessandlegal.ie/enforcing-uk-debt-in-ireland-debt-collection-in-ireland-for-uk-creditors

I wouldn't be giving them my address in Ireland for starters and I also think it's ludicrous of them trying to recover a bonus from you  for work you have already carried out. It's not as if you borrowed the money and you doing a runner....

Also have read through this,

https://www.yourmoney.com/saving-banking/what-happens-to-your-credit-score-when-you-move-overseas/


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## qwerty5 (6 Apr 2019)

While you say terms and conditions what does your contract say? You can update your terms and conditions all you want but if the contract hadn't been amended I'd be referring to that  

For example, my contract says something along the lines that I become ineligible for any upcoming bonus the second I hand in my notice. Seems a bit weird that they'd chase a past bonus payment .


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## chicco18 (6 Apr 2019)

Thanks Savvy, the links are extremely helpful, I did not realise that my credit rating would not travel with me, this may actually be a negative for me as I have a perfect credit rating in the UK and most likely dont have any credit rating in Ireland at all as I have lived in the UK for 9 years. Yet another obstacle to moving home!

Also, I wont be giving them my home address, but they will be able to track down my place of work very easily as my role in work in quite niche and there are only a small number of firms in Dublin where I could work. I assume there are laws in Ireland which prevent debt collectors contacting you at work.



qwerty5 said:


> While you say terms and conditions what does your contract say? You can update your terms and conditions all you want but if the contract hadn't been amended I'd be referring to that
> 
> For example, my contract says something along the lines that I become ineligible for any upcoming bonus the second I hand in my notice. Seems a bit weird that they'd chase a past bonus payment .



In brief the contract which was signed 4 years ago states:

_"....... the company retains the sole right to amend, alter or withdraw incentives schemes at any time"
_
They then went and recently changed the terms of the scheme so that if any employee leaves the company between April and October, they have to pay back the net bonus figure. I wasn't aware of this change and neither were the majority of people that I have discussed with. The conditions of the scheme are buried deep in the intranet, which is notoriously difficult to navigate.

I probably should have been more on the ball with regards to this. But it is an incredibly sneaky change and one that seriously undermines the worth of the employee. Im now in a situation where they may come after me for the repayment, not the way I expected to be treated after 4 years of late nights and dedication.


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## cremeegg (6 Apr 2019)

PaddyBloggit said:


> AAM isn't in the business of advising users on how to evade their financial responsibilities.



Really ? I have tried to raise the question of how far AAM posters should go in advising people of their rights/helping them avoid their responsibilities many times without ever seeing a consensus. In my opinion providing info is always reasonable.



Peanuts20 said:


> Only thing they can do is pass the debt to a collection agency.



While I am not a lawyer, I do not believe that they could pass on a debt like this.

To enforce a debt in the UK your employer would probably have to get a court order, which seems unlikely, they gave you the money, for them now to argue that you are not entitled to it would be laughed at in court, in my non-lawyers opinion.

If they did get a UK court award against you, they would then have to apply to an Irish court to endorse the UK courts order, which is supposed to be fairly automatic, but I think it requires application to the High Court. While Brexit might effect this process, it long pre-dates Brexit and would probably be unaffected, (the process that is).

Then they could contact an Irish debt collection agency to pursue you.

It will never happen.



chicco18 said:


> I did not realise that my credit rating would not travel with me, this may actually be a negative for me as I have a perfect credit rating in the UK and most likely dont have any credit rating in Ireland



There is no credit rating system in Ireland like there is in the UK. There is the ICB which holds records of missed repayments and the new CCR which holds records of loans. Neither amount to a credit rating system as they have in the UK.


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## PaddyBloggit (6 Apr 2019)

cremeegg said:


> In my opinion providing info is always reasonable.



Yes, providing that reasonable information is helping the poster to deal with their financial difficulties in a legal manner.

Advising someone on how to avoid their financial responsibilities always leads to consequences somewhere else ... higher interest rates, higher insurance premia etc.

My post was based on the OP's opening post ... where he spoke about 'debt' and 'debt following him back to Ireland'.

My comment was based on the fact that he looked as if he wanted to avoid/run/hide from this debt.

Only in later posts did the OP provide more clarification that the bonus was a payment for work done last year. That to me, throws a new light on the OP's situation .... of which I am sympathetic towards. His first port of call should be to discuss/negotiate with his employer to see if he can sort it at source.

The likelihood of the debt being chased up in Ireland is remote, but what about employment record/references etc.

A prospective employer in Ireland may find out about his difficulties and that may work against him in getting employment here.


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## Purple (16 Apr 2019)

chicco18 said:


> I wasn't aware of this change and neither were the majority of people that I have discussed with. The conditions of the scheme are buried deep in the intranet, which is notoriously difficult to navigate.


While your employer may well have the right to change T's & C's they also have a duty to communicate those changes in a clear and up front manner.


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## chicco18 (23 Apr 2019)

Thanks for all the replies, I haven't received any further correspondence from my employer with regards to my issue. However I will update this thread once I understand their intentions.


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