# Garage Extension



## Pique318 (24 Oct 2011)

Hi guys,

I want to build on a garage with utility room to the side of my house and have a few questions.

Is the 25 M2 PP exemption still applicable? Is this internal floorspace area?
I intend building to the limit of this.
I will have about 2' left between garage wall and boundary fence with neighbour as additional access to back garden, good idea or no ?
I have simple plans drawn up in Google SketchUp to illustrate to architect what I'm looking for. 
IS there any 'standard' price for estimation to give me an idea of what to expect for standard insulated cavity wall with tiled roof extension? 

Just started on this road so any help would be appreciated.


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## lowCO2design (24 Oct 2011)

Pique318 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I want to build on a garage with utility room to the side of my house and have a few questions.
> 
> Is the 25 M2 PP exemption still applicable?


 yes but is for a garage not a utility room which is 'habitable' and so requires planning


Pique318 said:


> Is this internal floorspace area?


 yes


Pique318 said:


> I intend building to the limit of this.
> I will have about 2' left between garage wall and boundary fence with neighbour as additional access to back garden, good idea or no ?


 best to leave an access pathway imo


Pique318 said:


> I have simple plans drawn up in Google SketchUp to illustrate to architect what I'm looking for.
> IS there any 'standard' price for estimation to give me an idea of what to expect for standard insulated cavity wall with tiled roof extension?


 circa 1000€ per msq

see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#part2 see schedule two for exempted developments

and [broken link removed] p26 & 31 for current build costs

this is straight forward job for an arch or arch tech but imo you should budget for planning costs also.


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## onq (25 Oct 2011)

Pique318 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I want to build on a garage with utility room to the side of my house and have a few questions.
> 
> ...



I think you should talk to your planning officer about the utility and ask if its classed as a habitable room.
Insulated cavity wall and tiled roof suggests a habitable room is being considered at some future date - i.e. its not a "shed".

What width is available to build? The ideal would be to leave a side passage of 900mm to allow ease of access for bins, mini diggers, etc.
However most cars really need an internal dimension of circa 2.6M in width although 2.4M will do if you're really stuck.

Are you considering going down this road to avoid the hassle and expense of a planning permission?
The 40 sq.m. exempted development limit includes all permitted and converted area as well.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                           as a defence or support - in   and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action      be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                           Real Life with rights to  inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter  at  hand.


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## daithi28 (25 Oct 2011)

Pique318 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I want to build on a garage with utility room to the side of my house and have a few questions.


 

Just to clarify, is this proposed garage at the side of the house detached or will it be attached to the gable of the house. If it is the latter, it's irrelevant what the floor area is, as it will require planning permission.


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## onq (25 Oct 2011)

Hi Picorette,

Could I just tease out your source for this comment?
Half the stuff I come across as relevent seems to stem from one line comments like yours. 

I've posted what I think is still the relevant extract from the planning and development regulations 2001.
The conditions or description don't seem to differentiate between whether its attached or not in terms of a garage or shed.

Condition 4 refers to it being located at "the side, but it seems to do so in relation to it being visible from the road and therefore it controls its visual impact.
However it doesn't refer to it as being "joined to the house" or "directly abutting" it as such.


Herewith what I understand is still the relevant extract from the Exempted Development Schedule from the Planning and Development Regulations 2001


*Description of Development*

_Development within the curtilage of a house_


*CLASS 3*

    The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of  any tent, awning, shade or other object, greenhouse, garage, store,  shed or other similar structure.

*
Conditions and Limitations*

 1. No such structure shall be constructed, erected or placed forward of the front wall of a house.
   2. The total area of such structures constructed, erected or placed  within the curtilage of a house shall not, taken together with any other  such structures previously constructed, erected or placed within the  said curtilage, exceed 25 square metres.
   3. The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house  of any such structure shall not reduce the amount of private open space  reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house to the  rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres.
   4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed,  erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where  any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those  of the house.
   5. The height of any such structure shall not exceed, in the case of a  building with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other  case, 3 metres.
   6. The structure shall not be used for human habitation or for the  keeping of pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses, or for any other  purpose other than a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as  such.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                            as a defence or support - in    and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action       be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                            Real Life with rights to   inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter   at  hand.


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## Pique318 (25 Oct 2011)

onq said:


> I think you should talk to your planning officer about the utility and ask if its classed as a habitable room.
> Insulated cavity wall and tiled roof suggests a habitable room is being considered at some future date - i.e. its not a "shed".


I have no intention of converting it into a bedroom/study/whatever, but I think that an insulated garage is probably more efficient for the rest of the house than an uninsulated one. 
I want the tiled roof to marry into the existing house and the rest of the development. The roof will not allow space for an attic room. 
Also, if we sell the house at some point in the future, the buyer may find the potential appealing. 
Converting its use to habitable will be their concern however. 
Will building the place with future potential make life complicated ?
The utility will be separated from the 'car part' of the garage by a wall and internal door and will be used for washing machine, dryer, and dogs (at times ). Does canine habitation count  ?


onq said:


> What width is available to build? The ideal would be to leave a side passage of 900mm to allow ease of access for bins, mini diggers, etc.
> However most cars really need an internal dimension of circa 2.6M in width although 2.4M will do if you're really stuck.


There's approx 3.8M from Gable wall to Boundary fence. 
I was thinking of 3.1M width for the garage, external dimensions, so coming down to 2.9 ext, will leave c.2.8m internal. 
Total internal length will be c 8.1M.



onq said:


> Are you considering going down this road to avoid the hassle and expense of a planning permission?
> The 40 sq.m. exempted development limit includes all permitted and converted area as well.
> ONQ.


Basically yes. There would be no realistic space for an additional 15M2 extension in any case.


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## Pique318 (25 Oct 2011)

daithi28 said:


> Just to clarify, is this proposed garage at the side of the house detached or will it be attached to the gable of the house. If it is the latter, it's irrelevant what the floor area is, as it will require planning permission.


It will be attached. I will upload a SketchUp file of what I have in mind later if anyone's interested.

Like ONQ, I was unaware of any requirements wrt PP regardless of it being attached or not.

Edit: can't attach files.


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## Leo (26 Oct 2011)

Pique318 said:


> Edit: can't attach files.


 
If you upload it to an internet file sharing site, you can then link to that.
Leo


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## Pique318 (26 Oct 2011)

Leo said:


> If you upload it to an internet file sharing site, you can then link to that.
> Leo



Ta Daaa
[broken link removed]


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## onq (26 Oct 2011)

Thanks Pique.

I'll look at this later today - out to meeting this afternoon.

Have to say your suggestion of 100mm wall thickness [2.9M ext, 2.8M int] is pushing it a bit 


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                             as a defence or support - in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal        action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                             Real Life with rights to    inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter    at  hand.


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## lowCO2design (26 Oct 2011)

Pique318 said:


> Converting its use to habitable will be their concern however.
> Will building the place with future potential make life complicated ?


no but imo you need planning, and imo you may aswell build it to be habitable in the future


Pique318 said:


> The utility will be separated from the 'car part' of the garage by a wall and internal door and will be used for washing machine, dryer, and dogs (at times ). Does canine habitation count  ?


 you are required to comply with current building regulations for any extension ( the a garage floor needs to be 150mm lower than the utility area)


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## onq (26 Oct 2011)

It needs a 100mm step.

TGD B 2006 Diagram 12 P. 75 

"Separation between garage and dwelling house"

"_1. Wall and any floor between garage and house to have 30 min. fire resistance. Any opening in the wall to be at least
100 mm above garage floor level and be fitted with an FD 30 (National) or E30 (European) door.

2. In the case of a single storey house, in order to maintain a 30 minute standard of fire separation between the house and
the garage, either:

the wall between the house and the garage should be taken up to the underside of the roof, 
or
the ceiling to the garage should be made fire-resisting._

This references Par. 3.2.4.2

"_3.2.4.2 Dwelling houses - Any wall separating
semi-detached dwelling houses, or houses in a
terrace, should be constructed as a compartment
wall, and the dwelling houses should be considered
as separate buildings.

If a small garage is attached to (or forms part of) a
dwelling house, the garage should be separated from
the rest of the house as indicated in Diagram 12."_


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                              as a defence or support -  in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal         action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                              Real Life with rights to     inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the         matter     at  hand.


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## onq (27 Oct 2011)

Hi Pique,

I've had a look at the Google Sketchup model.
Nice bit of modelling, but that's the trouble with it 

It shows too well the kind of long narrow side passage you're left with.
I suggest you either 

(i) incorporate it into the design and allow a through route through the buildings.

Or 

(ii) widen it to leave a minimum 900 mm clear allowing for a 300mm or so wall build up.

I'm a fan of pitched roofs, but in this case I'm not too sure.
Is the "hole" in the roof meant to be a rooflight or a cutaway view?


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                               as a defence or support -   in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal          action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                               Real Life with rights to      inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the          matter     at  hand.


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## Pique318 (27 Oct 2011)

Hi onq,

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my handiwork !!

I hear what you're saying about the passageway. I'm not sure if it's completely practical to have it there and it adds a level of insecurity to the property. Granted, any prospective lowlives could easily gain access to the back garden via the neighbours properties, but still.
With a garage door and doors in-line to utility and rear, the passage is practically pointless.

The 'hole' is a skylight for the main parking area.

I'm also with you about the pitched roof.
It's only a 15 deg slope. This is limited by the height of the apex, which is in turn limited by existing windows on the gable of the house.
15 deg is much less than the current building roof (not sure what is usual but it looks more like 45 deg.
I'd have to complete the model to see how it looks along with the existing dwelling before deciding. A flat roof is completely out though so it's 15 deg or no garage.


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## onq (27 Oct 2011)

Two things.

#1

I hear what you're saying about the rear access and safety.
Could I suggest that you consider whether the passage should be closed off entirely?

As matters stand it's too small for easy access and seems to waste a lot of potential space on a dank side passage which as you've noted can be a security risk.
You could talk to your neighbour about raising a shared wall which could take support from if there isn't on there already, with a parapet above your roof height (see below).

#2

As to the slope of the roof, you have sloped this the "long" way, reducing your slope to the minimum and below what is required for a tiled or slate finish.
It may have more to "flatten" because people seldom take account of the cill detail -vs- the roofslope and the requirement to flash and counter-flash adequately.

A cross-fall would raise the slope as well as reducing the height abutting your boundary wall and a hip at the front would "soften" the look of the extension to the street.
So long as the long parapet gutter is detailed correctly with a high valley guttering to cater for a snow melt, you should be fine plus it may reduce cost overall, but that's for the detailing stage.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                                as a defence or support -    in     and    of        itself  -         should       legal           action        be           taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                                Real Life with rights to       inspect     and       issue         reports    on     the           matter     at  hand.


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