# Missing counterpart lease



## computerman (2 Jun 2010)

Can someone explain the implications of a missing counterpart lease and what is usually contained therein.

Is there a place where one can get a copy or example of one?

Tnx


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## mf1 (2 Jun 2010)

computerman said:


> Can someone explain the implications of a missing counterpart lease and what is usually contained therein.
> 
> Is there a place where one can get a copy or example of one?
> 
> Tnx



A counterpart lease is just a copy/duplicate of the actual lease - executed at the same time. 

So - are you looking for a missing lease? And have you approached (pick as appropriate) landlord/tenant/either solicitor/bank and asked if any of them have a copy?

mf


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## computerman (2 Jun 2010)

its a block of apartments, each sale of which closed without a counterpart lease. (dont ask me how).

A number of issues have arisen in relation to how the management company is run and I am assuming I can get some info (however vague) from the counterpart lease.

I have been in touch with bank, insurance co., solicitor other residents to no avail.


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## mf1 (2 Jun 2010)

Each purchaser gets an original and counterpart lease executed by the vendor on closing. The purchasers solicitor should return the  counterpart  executed by their client afterwards. 

It is impossible for all of the apartments to close without their Lease. It is one of the most vital aspects of the title. Every purchaser has to have a Lease. The Lease will be with their Deeds - probably with the lending institution from whom they borrowed. It is not hard for a purchaser's solicitor to take up their client's deeds. 

And the counterpart is just a duplicate of the Lease. 

mf


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## computerman (2 Jun 2010)

Thanks mf1, now I understand what the lease is.  However there seems to be a serious problem with this development in that the orig. leases are missing.  Its my understanding that the units closed on the basis on on going undertakings that they will be provided later.  this has been going on for years.  The management agency has informed me that this arises everytime a unit comes up for sale.


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## mf1 (2 Jun 2010)

That is very, very strange!  

There are some things that a purchasers solicitor could "overlook" or accept an undertaking on, on closing but the original Lease should never be one of them.  If the Lease is not available then the sale should not close. 

Have any of the original purchasers spoken to their purchasing solicitor to ascertain the position? I think that that is where I would be starting. And I would want some very serious answers. 

mf


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## computerman (2 Jun 2010)

Yes everyone has been talking to their solicitors,  I am living in the development for 20 years and have been surprised at how many times sales have gone through.  Its kind of "we know there is a problem" but if we all ignore it together - there wont be a problem!
I dont intend selling up so its not a problem for me.

I would like to ascertain whats is normally contained in the lease.  I have tried contacting legal and general stationers but cant get an answer on the phone.

I dont intend selling up so its not a problem for me.

The builders solicitors went out of business 15 years ago, my own solicitor has retired, and my building society dont have a copy.


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## Vanilla (3 Jun 2010)

I'd imagine its likely to be the copy conveyance/assignment of the common areas to the mge company that's missing rather than the lease of each unit. Open to being corrected on this but think you have taken it up wrongly.


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## computerman (3 Jun 2010)

Thanks V,

I think you are right I got in touch with a previous management company this morning who more or less said what you stated above.

In the meantime, Im still trying to get hold of the lease as I want to know details such as 
1. right to charge interest on late dues
2. quorum for meetings
3. shares per property / share rights etc etc.

This is not my field so I appreciate any replies.


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## Vanilla (3 Jun 2010)

The assignment/lease/conveyance won't have those details in it anyway.

Share per property- check your title or any owners title- in 99% of cases it is one vote per property.

Quorum per meeting- check the memorandum and articles of association of the management company- they should have it or get a copy from the companies office.

Interest on late payments- I doubt if this is contained in any document and you would probably have to put this for a vote at the next AGM.


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