# Can Gardaí just search any vehicle for no reason?



## ney001 (5 Aug 2008)

Hi just wondering, are the gardaí allowed to search any vehicle without cause/reason??.  Mr Ney just rang me he has my jeep today and I have his car, we are both insured on each vehicle.  Mr Ney had just run to the builders suppliers and had left his license in his jacket on site - gardaí didn't believe he was who he said he was as he had no ID with him.  They proceeded to search the jeep as he stood by the side of the road?.  I would have thought that a garda must have to suspect that the vehicle is carrying something it shouldn't be before they can search it, is this not the case?  At the end of the search they found a number of letters etc in my glove box and eventually came across a statement addressed to both of us from EBS mortage.  They gave him back the keys then and told him to produce insurance and license at station.


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## ClubMan (5 Aug 2008)

Any use?

Your _Rights_ & How to Deal with the _Gardaí_. - Indymedia Ireland


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## jhegarty (5 Aug 2008)

They can search if they suspect drugs..

I presume here they though he was giving a false identity.... I know in the UK they can search for that as well , but not sure about Ireland...


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## ney001 (5 Aug 2008)

I don't know what they suspected, they checked him against the system and found nothing.  He was carrying bricks in the back of the jeep, he asked where had he bought the bricks - show him a receipt etc.  He said that no matter what he said - they didn't seem to believe him!.


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## McCrack (5 Aug 2008)

Find out off him did he give them his permission for the vehicle to be searched. If he did then they do not need any legislative authority to search.

The situation could of went something like "Well Mr x do you mind if we take a look inside the jeep?" If he answered yes then they dont need authority.

I kind of suspect this is what happened.


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## starlite68 (5 Aug 2008)

get on to the garda ombudsman right away and complain...if they think they think they can throw their weight around like this.. there is no knowing where they will stop!


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## DavyJones (5 Aug 2008)

On the plus side, if your jeep had been stolen, you'd have it back now and the culprit would be caught. Sometimes the Gardai are damned if they do and damned if they don't.


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## McCrack (5 Aug 2008)

starlite68 said:


> get on to the garda ombudsman right away and complain...if they think they think they can throw their weight around like this.. there is no knowing where they will stop!


 
Nonsense. Both you or I or indeed the original poster do not know the exact facts/circumstances of this as neither of us were there to witness. What we have is limited facts from a third party. Youre shooting from the hip. 
And by the way I dont have any particular affinity towards the Garda but I just believe in a bit fairness to both sides.


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## ontour (5 Aug 2008)

I am with Davy Jones as I could just see the post here.... A Garda stopped my stolen jeep and the driver couldn't provide any form of identity but the Garda let him off with my jeep..can I sue them? 

I am not sure that I understand what the issue would be with allowing searches of vehicles.


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> They proceeded to search the jeep as he stood by the side of the road?


Are you asking us? Or just not sure?

As mentioned earlier if they asked could they search it and your husband (?) said yes then there's your answer.


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## starlite68 (6 Aug 2008)

> And by the way I dont have any particular affinity towards the Garda but I just believe in a bit fairness to both sides.


 
point taken.....if the man gave the gards consent to search his jeep then thats fair enough......strange,,but fair enough. on the other hand if he did not give consent,then they overstepped the mark.


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## jhegarty (6 Aug 2008)

> strange,,but fair enough. on the other hand if he did not give consent,then they overstepped the mark.




how should they have handled it ?


Just let him off on his merry way when he may not have a license , insurance or even permission to drive the vehicle ?


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## starlite68 (6 Aug 2008)

you dont have to search a vehicle to ask the driver for his licence ect...


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## jhegarty (6 Aug 2008)

starlite68 said:


> you dont have to search a vehicle to ask the driver for his licence ect...




but he didn't have his licence, that's the point... he had no ID at all..


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

If he had no license while driving then he could get 2 or 5 penalty points. Perhaps the _Gardaí _are letting him off lightly by just requiring him to present the license and other details at the station within some period of time?


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

starlite68 said:


> you dont have to search a vehicle to ask the driver for his licence ect...


The original poster has not yet clarified whether or not the _Gardaí _asked could they search the vehicle and if they did whether or not her husband consented. If they asked and he consented then there's nothing to see here folks.


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## Frasier (6 Aug 2008)

Is the suggestion that the Garda were doing anything other that verifying that the vehicle was not stolen or involved in any illegal activity.  I assume you are not suggesting they took particular dislike to Mr Ney and behaved unprofessionally.

If i had no identification and was driving a vehicle that was not registered to me I would expect the Garda to run further checks, up to and including searching the vehicle.  Not a big inconvenience I'd have thought. In fact, in the circumstance, if they had not made further checks I'd ask why not.

If the Garda recovered your stolen vehicle in this manner you would be here singing their praises.


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## sparkeee (6 Aug 2008)

they cant search it,they can arrest him then search it,but they must give a reason for the arrest.


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

sparkeee said:


> they cant search it,they can arrest him then search it,but they must give a reason for the arrest.


But if they ask can they search it and the driver consents then it's OK presumably?



Frasier said:


> If i had no identification and was driving a vehicle that was not registered to me I would expect the Garda to run further checks, up to and including searching the vehicle.


In that case you could be liable for 2 or 5 penalty points as mentioned above.


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

hi guys, thanks for replies.  He has informed me that he did in fact consent to the search of the vehicle yesterday.  Basically, garda asked him who's vehicle it was, he explained the situation and told them that he could produce his license within an hour at a garda station.  Garda looked into back of jeep, saw bricks etc and asked for receipt for them.  Garda then asked if he had ever been in trouble with the law and was he carrying drugs.  Mr Ney responded no to both and garda asked if he could search the jeep - Mr Ney consented as he did not want garda to think that he was hiding anything.  I understand he had no id and I understand that he did give his consent, my question is....is not carrying id reason enough to request a search of a vehicle and to ask somebody if they are carrying drugs?.  just seemed a bit odd to me that a guy wearing builders work clothes, driving a jeep loaded with bricks in the middle of a working day was stopped and searched?


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> hi guys, thanks for replies.  He has informed me that he did in fact consent to the search of the vehicle yesterday.
> 
> ...
> 
> garda asked if he could search the jeep - Mr Ney consented


Case closed so? Unless he might still get penalty points for not carrying his license while driving?


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

Don't think he'll be getting points - just told to produce license and insurance - I guess he might though!


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## ontour (6 Aug 2008)

> just seemed a bit odd to me that a guy wearing builders work clothes, driving a jeep loaded with bricks in the middle of a working day was stopped and searched?


 
because it is a commonly known fact that all persons involved with drugs drive japanese import cars, wear light jumpers with horizontal stripes, jeans and white runners and are outdoors only between the hours of 10pm and 4am !

To me it sounds like gardai who were polite and efficient in carrying out their duties.  They engaged in a professional manner to ensure the minimum inconvenience to the person that they had stopped.


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

ontour said:


> because it is a commonly known fact that all persons involved with drugs drive japanese import cars, wear light jumpers with horizontal stripes, jeans and white runners and are outdoors only between the hours of 10pm and 4am !



Don't put words in my mouth please - basically as stated it struck me as odd, particularly given the fact that his tools etc were in the back of the jeep and he had a receipt for the load of bricks that he was carrying so it was obvious where he had just come from!.   



> To me it sounds like gardai who were polite and efficient in carrying out their duties.  They engaged in a professional manner to ensure the minimum inconvenience to the person that they had stopped.



Actually he did not feel that the gardaí were being polite to him, he felt that he was under suspicion for something but he did not know what.  When stopped he immediately gave full name and address which is also the address to which the vehicle is registered.  He gave my name and number and also my work details so that they might in some way verify who I was and who he was, he offered attend garda station with license in an hours time.  I don't think that he was dealt with with the minimum of inconvenience - but that aside as you will see above he consented to the search so end of!


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> Don't think he'll be getting points - just told to produce license and insurance - I guess he might though!


If he doesn't then maybe he should be thankful that they went easy on him rather than complaining about them carrying out a search to which he voluntarily acceded?


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## Wolverine (6 Aug 2008)

Ney - I have to say that even though your other half gave permission, he probable had little choice in the matter.  If he refused, then they prob would have hauled him in, or at least taken up hours of his time, maybe they would have impounding the Jeep (and the bricks  ).

I can see why you would be angry,  but as clubman said, and I tend to agree, your other half is more than likely going to get away with no penalty points, so although they maybe flexing their authoritive muscles, they could have gone harder on him.

my opinion - Just forget about it, we all have to kiss a little a$$/take crap from time to time, for the sake of an easy life.


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

Actually he is not complaining - we were simply confused by the whole situation i.e why the vehicle would be searched in the first place and was not having id enough reason to conduct a search of a vehicle and ask are you carrying drugs - that's it - that's all there is to it!


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## efm (6 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If he doesn't then maybe he should be thankful that they went easy on him rather than complaining about them carrying out a search to which he voluntarily acceded?


 


Wolverine said:


> I can see why you would be angry, but as clubman said, and I tend to agree, your other half is more than likely going to get away with no penalty points, so although they maybe flexing their authoritive muscles, they could have gone harder on him.
> 
> my opinion - Just forget about it, we all have to kiss a little a$$/take crap from time to time, for the sake of an easy life.


 
 OP never said they were complaining or angry - she was just questioning the legality and / or normality of the incident.


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## DavyJones (6 Aug 2008)

Why was he stopped in the first place? they usually have reason, speeding, no tax etc. 
when I was younger I used to be stopped alot and searched (mainly looking in the booth) I think the reason was because I always drove cars that looked like they were dragged from the crushing machine in the junk yard.


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## Staples (6 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Perhaps the _Gardaí _are letting him off lightly by just requiring him to present the license and other details at the station within some period of time?


 
Are you asking us? Or are you not quite sure?


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Why was he stopped in the first place? they usually have reason, speeding, no tax etc.
> when I was younger I used to be stopped alot and searched (mainly looking in the booth) I think the reason was because I always drove cars that looked like they were dragged from the crushing machine in the junk yard.




The gardaí were doing tax checks, they had stopped a number of cars on front of him and waved him on, they checked his disk (in date) and then asked him for his license - and they rest as they say is history.  Really he was just confused as to the reason he was picked to be searched, he had a valid story as to where he was coming from and indeed where he was going - and his demeanor/attire/attitude did not warrant a question as to whether or not he was carrying drugs and/or a search of the vehicle.


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

Staples said:


> Are you asking us? Or are you not quite sure?


Obviously I am not sure since all I have to go on is the partial information posted here.


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## ClubMan (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> Actually he is not complaining





efm said:


> OP never said they were complaining or angry - she was just questioning the legality and / or normality of the incident.


Well the following comments seem to me to betray some level of dissatisfaction with the manner in which this incident/search was carried out:


ney001 said:


> Actually he did not feel that the gardaí were being polite to him, he felt that he was under suspicion for something but he did not know what.
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't think that he was dealt with with the minimum of inconvenience


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## gianni (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> Don't put words in my mouth please - basically as stated it struck me as odd, particularly given the fact that his tools etc were in the back of the jeep and he had a receipt for the load of bricks that he was carrying so it was obvious where he had just come from!.



Perhaps the Gardai had received word that someone driving a jeep and "disguised" as a builder had been involved in some illegal activity in the area ?


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## McCrack (6 Aug 2008)

God will this ever end?

This is all getting a bit silly people. We have established that he gave his consent for the jeep to be searched so that answers the question about the legality of the search. It was legal.

The Garda and indeed anybody can search another person's vehicle, home or person if the person to be searched gives his/her consent for them to do so. 

The question as to why they asked to search his jeep we will never know. I dont know what the Garda suspected or why. The only way that would of been evident was if the person had refused the search and the Garda then invoked a statutory power (if possible). 
We can all speculate, we will never know for sure.


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## bond-007 (6 Aug 2008)

McCrack said:


> The only way that would of been evident was if the person had refused the search and the Garda then invoked a statutory power (if possible).


I doubt they could. I would never let them search unless they invoke a statutory power.


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## Bop (6 Aug 2008)

What are you on about.. People that smuggle drugs, etc., dont have a sign on the side saying "drug smuggler". They try to blend in. If a guard stops a car or jeep for some reason and that driver has no id, whats the guard supposed to do.... Of course he has to ask questions and you said that your husband consented to the search. As mentioned above he is lucky he is not getting penalty points. Also very good point above that if your jeep was stolen you would be damn glad the guard asked a few questions. I think you should call the ombudsman alright and tell him you found a guard that does a bit of work......


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## April Raine (11 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> than complaining about them carrying out a search to which he voluntarily acceded?


sorry replied to wrong post!


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## April Raine (11 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I doubt they could. I would never let them search unless they invoke a statutory power.


 agreed. asking do you mind if we search is a sort of trick question - they are gambling people do not know their rights. would never let them near my car uinless they invoke law and tel me what law


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## April Raine (12 Aug 2008)

April Raine said:


> agreed. asking do you mind if we search is a sort of trick question - they are gambling people do not know their rights. would never let them near my car uinless they invoke law and tell me what law


Best way to answer their questions is with another question

Do you mind if we search your car?
Am I legally obliged to let you and if so under what law?


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## Guest106 (12 Aug 2008)

In terms of clarity on this topic, McCrack (post 8) is about as good as it gets.
That's it pure & simple.


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## ontheup (13 Aug 2008)

Just wondering,What would have happened if the driver said no to search
would the garda tell him ok then and send him on his way,#
my guess is no.
so how voluntary is this consent!


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## bond-007 (13 Aug 2008)

Unless the Garda had a statutory power to invoke he would have no choice but to let him go.


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## jhegarty (13 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Unless the Garda had a statutory power to invoke he would have no choice but to let him go.



could he have detained the car as he had no proof the driver had a license or was insured to drive the car ?


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## shipibo (13 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If he had no license while driving then he could get 2 or 5 penalty points. Perhaps the _Gardaí _are letting him off lightly by just requiring him to present the license and other details at the station within some period of time?



You misunderstand. " Driving without driving license" means no provo/ full license, not carrying it in car.


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## shipibo (13 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> If he doesn't then maybe he should be thankful that they went easy on him rather than complaining about them carrying out a search to which he voluntarily acceded?



He has every right to complain if he feels they treated him like a criminal, of course they have the right to pursue the jobs in an efficent manner, but courtesy and politeness does not cost a penny.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2008)

crumdub12 said:


> He has every right to complain if he feels they treated him like a criminal


The driver in question was committing an offence by not carrying a license while driving.


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## bond-007 (14 Aug 2008)

But was he prosecuted and/or convicted of any offence? Innocent until proven guilty and all that nice stuff enshrined in Bunreacht na hÉireann.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> But was he prosecuted and/or convicted of any offence? Innocent until proven guilty and all that nice stuff enshrined in Bunreacht na hÉireann.


Not carrying a license is an offence simple as. I sounds like they did not penalise him for this though. Nobody said or implied that he was guilty of anything else as far as I can see.


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## shipibo (14 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> The driver in question was committing an offence by not carrying a license while driving.




It happens, no big deal.

You get asked to produce at nearest station.


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## shipibo (14 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Not carrying a license is an offence simple as. I sounds like they did not penalise him for this though. Nobody said or implied that he was guilty of anything else as far as I can see.



What penalty could they impose ???


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## bond-007 (14 Aug 2008)

None, they would have to issue a summons to court and a judge would decide guilt and what penalty should apply.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2008)

crumdub12 said:


> What penalty could they impose ???


See my earlier post.



crumdub12 said:


> It happens, no big deal.
> 
> You get asked to produce at nearest station.


Why are there penalty points for it if it's no big deal?


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## jhegarty (14 Aug 2008)

crumdub12 said:


> It happens, no big deal.
> 
> You get asked to produce at nearest station.



that all fine if you can prove who you are ... if not you could give the name mickey mouse and drive off...


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## Peeete (14 Aug 2008)

ClubMan said:


> See my earlier post.
> 
> 
> Why are there penalty points for it if it's no big deal?



There are NO penalty points for not carrying a driving license on your person while driving a car.

What you pointed out early Clubman (as already mentioned by one other poster in this thread) refers to not having a current valid license for a car at all. 

See penalty point offences: http://www.penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php

Quote: Crumdub 12 "You misunderstand. " Driving without driving license" means no provo/ full license, not carrying it in car."


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2008)

Peeete said:


> There are NO penalty points for not carrying a driving license on your person while driving a car.
> 
> What you pointed out early Clubman (as already mentioned by one other poster in this thread) refers to not having a current valid license for a car at all.
> 
> ...


Ah - OK. I did misunderstand that offence so.


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## Voyager (14 Aug 2008)

> There are NO penalty points for not carrying a driving license on your person while driving a car.


 
Can I ask a question? There are 1 or 3 points for failure to produce a licence. Does this apply to when you are stopped by guard at the side of the road or do you get an opportunity to produce later.

Sorry if off topic. I'm just not clear about it.


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## Peeete (15 Aug 2008)

Voyager said:


> Can I ask a question? There are 1 or 3 points for failure to produce a licence. Does this apply to when you are stopped by guard at the side of the road or do you get an opportunity to produce later.
> 
> Sorry if off topic. I'm just not clear about it.



There is a lot of confusion as to what penalty points are enacted and what ones are not (even Clubman ). For instance the one mentioned in this thread is present in law but has not been rolled out yet. Therefore it is an offence but not a penalty point offence as of yet.

The road traffic act of 2002 states all penalty point offences. See the following page from the Irish Statute Book: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sched1.html.

However not all of these penalty points have been rolled out, including the one mentioned above. See the following parliamentry debate record for ones not included: [broken link removed]

For a full list of current penalty point offences see: http://www.penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

It should also be made clear that even for some of the penalty point offences that are active only a judge can give the points in court after a hearing and not the Gardaí at the side of the road.


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