# Conor Skehan :'Nothing but the facts will do when tackling homelessness'



## Brendan Burgess (9 Dec 2019)

A great article, well worth reading in full 



The facts are that, in terms of comparisons on the broad canvas of housing, Ireland now fares well in the context of Europe; having the fourth lowest level of overcrowding; the fifth lowest housing overburden rate and Europe's lowest levels of severe housing deprivation and households with children facing overcrowding.

Indeed, in every one of the 11 factors examined in the indicators of European Homelessness 2019 report, Ireland is better than the EU average in every one, except in the fundamental issue of arrears - as well as the prevalence of lone women with dependent children among households experiencing damp housing. These are facts.

...

Homelessness is a very different thing from rough sleeping - the subject of most posters that seek funding for homelessness. The Dublin region has 92 people who were recorded as rough sleeping this year compared to 152 in 2018. Brussels has 150 rough sleepers; in 2015 Lisbon had 431. It is sobering to consider the comparable figures for larger cities such as London which has 8,855; Paris 2,232; Los Angeles 44,000; Seattle 12,112; San Francisco 9,700; New York City 3,588, and San Diego 8,576. Homelessness is a part of the reality of capital cities and large cities all over the world.


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## Conan (9 Dec 2019)

Aghhh Brendan, this does not suit the prevailing narrative of SF, PBF, Solidarity, Cillian Murphy, Glen Hansard etc etc. Everything’s the fault of the Government, clearly. Of course houses can be built in a week, everyone knows that. And sure nobody ever objects to proposed housing and apartment developments. Stick to the script Brendan.


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## 24601 (9 Dec 2019)

There's a lot of things you can't really say out loud about homelessness (and increasingly lots of other things). Well you can but you risk all the usual cliches about being a right wing so and so, and it's generally not worth the hassle in this ultra liberal PC age we seem to be in. It's sad to see so many people talk about Ireland like it's some sort of third world backwater all the time (probably not allowed use the term third world now come to think of it?). We have many social issues but we continue to perform better than nearly everyone in most areas of any consequence, but you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise when you pick up a paper or listen to the radio. 

I asked a colleague recently if she thought the government has the wherewithal to reduce homelessness to zero. She said yes. I asked whether they _should _implement all the policies required to get us there. She said yes. Imagine living in that Ireland.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Dec 2019)

Conor Skehan is not afraid to be unpopular which makes him a pretty rare species in this country today.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (9 Dec 2019)

My pet theory is that:
1) 90% of journalists live in Dublin
2) journalism pays badly due to the death of advertising

Ergo journalists struggle to find a place to live. They talk to their friends - mainly other journalists - and keep it on top of the news agenda.


In reality housing is an acute issue for a small share of the population, but in fact a non-issue for the majority.


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## gianni (10 Dec 2019)

Local school in our area is fundraising to "help feed the thousands of homeless this Christmas". I got daggers looks for suggesting that there aren't thousands that need feeding.


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## odyssey06 (10 Dec 2019)

gianni said:


> Local school in our area is fundraising to "help feed the thousands of homeless this Christmas". I got daggers looks for suggesting that there aren't thousands that need feeding.



That's another reason why it gets so much attention - all the different charities.

I've been giving to different homeless charities for last 20 years, at this point, I'm beginning to think it is time to stop. We're spending €20 billion on social welfare, I pay a huge amount in tax and it is a government responsibility not something that will be resolved or should be funded by charitable donations.

We can accomodate 6000+ people in direct provision at a cost of €35 - €100 per person per day.
This is not about money.


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## galway_blow_in (10 Dec 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> That's another reason why it gets so much attention - all the different charities.
> 
> I've been giving to different homeless charities for last 20 years, at this point, I'm beginning to think it is time to stop. We're spending €20 billion on social welfare, I pay a huge amount in tax and it is a government responsibility not something that will be resolved or should be funded by charitable donations.
> 
> ...



The capuchin centre is my only choice, the rest are mixed up with some kind of left wing activism.


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## Blackrock1 (10 Dec 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> A great article, well worth reading in full
> 
> 
> 
> ...



at least someone has the mettle to report factually, id imagine he will be attacked ferociously for it.


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## Peanuts20 (10 Dec 2019)

What is the definition of homelessness?
Is it rough sleepers (yes)
is is those living in short term accom such as hotels (yes)
Is it people couch surfing (probably not quantified- yes in my view)
Is it people still living at home with family or friends and who cannot afford to get a place of their own- (possibly depending on the circumstances)


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## The Horseman (10 Dec 2019)

Peanuts20 said:


> What is the definition of homelessness?
> Is it rough sleepers (yes)
> is is those living in short term accom such as hotels (yes)
> Is it people couch surfing (probably not quantified- yes in my view)
> Is it people still living at home with family or friends and who cannot afford to get a place of their own- (possibly depending on the circumstances)




So almost everyone. Homeless in the past was for those who did not have a roof over their heads. Nowadays because you don't have your "forever home" (which is a term that really bugs me personally) see themselves as homeless.


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## Delboy (10 Dec 2019)

A lot of Charities = a lot of CEO's, CFO's, Policy Officers, HR Heads etc. Its a racket and everyone and anyone is getting in on it.

I saw last night on the Claire Byrne Show a charity from Portlaoise that come up to Dublin 2 nights a week to give out food and clothes. Another lad who's coming up from Monaghan with hundreds of coats and hangs them on the Ha'penny bridge every week but now the Corpo are removing them.

Madness


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

The Horseman said:


> So almost everyone. Homeless in the past was for those who did not have a roof over their heads. Nowadays because you don't have your "forever home" (which is a term that really bugs me personally) see themselves as homeless.


My 21 year old son is living at home as he can't afford his own place (he's in college). It seems the poor lad is actually homeless. I must let him know. I hope he's not too shocked.


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## dereko1969 (11 Dec 2019)

I think there's a lot of merit in the article but disparaging people who live in B&Bs or Hotels where families have to walk the streets during the day and have nowhere suitable to do their homework is obnoxious - some of them may be waiting and playing the system for "a forever home" but I would think that's a very small minority, a little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. Season's greetings and all that.


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## Blackrock1 (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> I think there's a lot of merit in the article but disparaging people who live in B&Bs or Hotels where families have to walk the streets during the day and have nowhere suitable to do their homework is obnoxious - some of them may be waiting and playing the system for "a forever home" but I would think that's a very small minority, a little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. Season's greetings and all that.



we have more than enough empathy, what we dont have a sensible reaction to the actual facts.

as others have said it suits everyone in the charity game to talk it up.


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> but I would think that's a very small minority


What evidence did you use to form that opinion?
Do remember that Conor Skehan was Chair of the Housing Authority.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (11 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> What evidence did you use to form that opinion?
> Do remember that Conor Skehan was Chair of the Housing Authority.



There is evidence on this. From the Irish Times in 2018



> In January 2015, following the death of Jonathan Corrie who had been sleeping rough near Leinster House, *the then minister for housing, Alan Kelly, ordered that 50 per cent of all social housing available in Dublin city and county was to be allocated to homeless people.*
> 
> Prior to this, 10 per cent of social housing was allocated to homeless individuals or families in Dublin city and 4-6 per cent in the rest of Dublin.
> 
> ...


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## dereko1969 (11 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> What evidence did you use to form that opinion?
> Do remember that Conor Skehan was Chair of the Housing Authority.


I have no evidence other than perhaps a misplaced trust in people to generally (I did state minority) do the right thing by their children. I don't see any evidence for the opposing view either. Conor Skehan doesn't actually state anywhere in the article that people are deliberately overstaying in hotel/b&b accommodation in order to game the system.


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> There is evidence on this. From the Irish Times in 2018


What's that evidence of, other than a stupid, populist, knee-jerk policy?


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> I think there's a lot of merit in the article but disparaging people who live in B&Bs or Hotels where families have to walk the streets during the day and have nowhere suitable to do their homework is obnoxious - some of them may be waiting and playing the system for "a forever home" but I would think that's a very small minority, a little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. Season's greetings and all that.


Why not think of this another way. If you had no job, and no income other than the dole. Would you stay in Dublin with your children in a hotel room for a year or two or three? Or would you move to rural Ireland and rent a house, paid for by the state?

Would you bring your children to be fed at a soup kitchen equivelant.


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> I have no evidence other than perhaps a misplaced trust in people to generally (I did state minority) do the right thing by their children. I don't see any evidence for the opposing view either. Conor Skehan doesn't actually state anywhere in the article that people are deliberately overstaying in hotel/b&b accommodation in order to game the system.


The right thing by their children is to get a house, the best house they can get, even if that involves lying.


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> Why not think of this another way. If you had no job, and no income other than the dole. Would you stay in Dublin with your children in a hotel room for a year or two or three? Or would you move to rural Ireland and rent a house, paid for by the state?


You'd stay in Dublin if you were really only spending half the time or less in the B&B and the rest with your parents in their council house, just like people did for decades before the State giving you a house became a human right.


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2019)

Delboy said:


> A lot of Charities = a lot of CEO's, CFO's, Policy Officers, HR Heads etc. Its a racket and everyone and anyone is getting in on it.
> 
> I saw last night on the Claire Byrne Show a charity from Portlaoise that come up to Dublin 2 nights a week to give out food and clothes. Another lad who's coming up from Monaghan with hundreds of coats and hangs them on the Ha'penny bridge every week but now the Corpo are removing them.
> 
> Madness


Yes oddly Dublin is full of people giving to charity who wouldn't dream of letting a homeless person into their home. (not would I btw).  There are council houses that have three or four bedrooms where the original occupants have passed it down to their single son or daugher. Or same house but sons and daughters have moved out and parents are still in the council house either as a couple or single.


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## The Horseman (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> I think there's a lot of merit in the article but disparaging people who live in B&Bs or Hotels where families have to walk the streets during the day and have nowhere suitable to do their homework is obnoxious - some of them may be waiting and playing the system for "a forever home" but I would think that's a very small minority, a little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. Season's greetings and all that.



But we have afterschool clubs, library's, relatives houses. The houses may not be big enough to have beds in them for the people who don't live there but there is still space to do homework etc. 

While the above is not ideal it can work. 

Another poster commented about moving out  of Dublin. I know if I had a choice between my family being homeless and living in a B&B, Hub or hotel or been given a property outside of Dublin and I was not working I would take the property in a heartbeat. 

It appears that people want a particular property/location but need a property/location. There is a difference between want and need but some people don't or won't differentiate between them.


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> You'd stay in Dublin if you were really only spending half the time or less in the B&B and the rest with your parents in their council house, just like people did for decades before the State giving you a house became a human right.


I wouldn't last in a B&B for a day never mind a week.  But if I wanted to get a free house in Dublin I might.  Particularly if I had nothing else and I had no intention of working.  My siblings had to work in Dublin. When they couldn't afford Dublin rents they lived out of town wherever that was.  And if that didn't make sense they moved elsewhere.  I've had siblings and friends in Dublin city center, staying with relatives, digs, moving out to Kildare etc.  Moving out of a Dublin apartment when it got too small for the growing family.  Not one of them ever spent a night in a B&B or hotel.  And when they lost jobs they moved home or back to a spouse (celtic tiger to bust to boom).  I know many people from abroad who are moving to Dublin.  Despite the accommodation crisis.


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2019)

dereko1969 said:


> I think there's a lot of merit in the article but disparaging people who live in B&Bs or Hotels where families have to walk the streets during the day and have nowhere suitable to do their homework is obnoxious - some of them may be waiting and playing the system for "a forever home" but I would think that's a very small minority, a little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. Season's greetings and all that.


If I were in a hotel with a load of other people I'd ask the hotel if I could use a function room to organise homework classes (when the function room was empty) and I'd make sure that I'd leave the space spotless so the hotel would be happy to accommodate me.  

If that didn't work I'd go to the local library and get my kids to do their homework there.  

Honestly it's like everybody has turned into a baby.  I heard a refugee a couple of weeks ago whose children weren't allowed to to school and so were watching tv all the time.  Has she never heard of a book or turning off the tv.


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## Bronte (11 Dec 2019)

Conan said:


> Aghhh Brendan, this does not suit the prevailing narrative of SF, PBF, Solidarity, Cillian Murphy, Glen Hansard etc etc. Everything’s the fault of the Government, clearly. Of course houses can be built in a week, everyone knows that. And sure nobody ever objects to proposed housing and apartment developments. Stick to the script Brendan.


Did those people not occupy an empty building a year back and try and put homeless people into it.  Until it all went pear shaped.  Because much like the state there are some people it's near impossible to help. 

(there are objections this week to a housing developement of 1K homes)


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## Purple (11 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> I wouldn't last in a B&B for a day never mind a week. But if I wanted to get a free house in Dublin I might.


Particularly if in reality you weren't homeless but rather living in your parents house most of the time.


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## Gervan (11 Dec 2019)

It is difficult to define the "homeless".
I currently have 8 people sharing my 3 bedroom house. It is not ideal.
One is a student, and can pay his way. 

The others are non-Irish (but legally resident) immigrants (?) refugees (?) not related to me.
One couple have the sole earner now on unpaid sick leave for months, with no income. The family with 3 children have two part-time minimum wages coming in. Neither family is in a position to cover rent and utility bills.

Nevertheless, I did respond to an agency advert for a 3 bedroom house for rent, thinking they might manage it with a little assistance, but was told the property was not suitable for a family with three children. Each child had to have its own bedroom.

We are all, including me, very thankful to have a roof over our heads, even if it's not the warmest or most comfortable.
It is a terrifying thought that if something happens to me, these families would truly be homeless.
They are not currently shown on any list as homeless, but if we were ever to be officially inspected, the accommodation would surely be regarded as unsuitable. 

I don't like the superciliousness in this thread about desire for "forever houses". There are many not-exactly-homeless people in the same position who would take up any rental property they could afford, and make the best of it. But the properties are not available, affordable, or the agents and landlords are considering only the cream of rental applications.


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## theo67 (11 Dec 2019)

I have an acquaintance living not too far from us.He has a city council 3 bed house to himself at very low rent.He is kinda separated from wife and kids who live in another country not too far away. 2 kids visit briefly maybe twice a year.He spends a lot of time abroad. I suggested  once or twice to him that he must come under pressure to share the house or give up 3 bed for a family.He never does.Seems fact that kids visit occasionally means he retains entitlement to 3 bed.Seems very,very generous if accomodation is as scarce as we are told.Maybe its easier leave him there than find a one bed but seems a bit crazy.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (11 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> What's that evidence of, other than a stupid, populist, knee-jerk policy?



It's evidence in support of your original point......


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## fidelcastro (12 Dec 2019)

Nice Christmas spirit on show here folks, hope you enjoyed a good nights sleep and the Latte tastes good this morning.

To homeless person "what are you complaining about, ....dont you know its much worse in London,  New York , San Fran,  ......Alleppo, Aden...Gaza"

Lovely.

The simple solution to homelessness is guess what...to build houses.










						'It’s a miracle': Helsinki's radical solution to homelessness
					

Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is falling. Its secret? Giving people homes as soon as they need them – unconditionally




					www.theguardian.com
				




Otherwise you'll pay a multiple of the costs in prisons, joblessness, drugs, healthcare.

And please, to the landlords , give up  the moaning about how much income tax you pay on rental incomes.  Your rents are at levels that you could not have dreamt about 10 yrs ago, and besides, its not as it you actually scrubbed a toilet to earn the money.

Fidel


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## Leo (12 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> its not as it you actually scrubbed a toilet to earn the money.



Bitter much?


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## Sophrosyne (12 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> The simple solution to homelessness is guess what...to build houses.



And we need 21st century house building methods.


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## Purple (12 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> Nice Christmas spirit on show here folks, hope you enjoyed a good nights sleep and the Latte tastes good this morning.


 Thank you and yes, it was lovely.


fidelcastro said:


> The simple solution to homelessness is guess what...to build houses.


Yes, That's what many of us have been saying. I've been pointing out how difficult that it due to labour shortages.
The Finns have endless amounts of money and their bright shining solution is communal living. The Loony Left has already rules that out and the spineless cowards in FF have, as usual, danced to the Shinner's tune.


fidelcastro said:


> Your rents are at levels that you could not have dreamt about 10 yrs ago


10 years ago they were losing money.


fidelcastro said:


> and besides, its not as it you actually scrubbed a toilet to earn the money.


How do you know?


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## Purple (12 Dec 2019)

Sophrosyne said:


> And we need 21st century house building methods.


Indeed.


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## Bronte (12 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> And please, to the landlords , give up  the moaning about how much income tax you pay on rental incomes.  Your rents are at levels that you could not have dreamt about 10 yrs ago, and besides, its not as it you actually scrubbed a toilet to earn the money.



Oh yes I have absolutely scrubbed toilets. Cleaned out the most dire fridges and encrusted cookers.  Rebagged gardens of household rubbish.  

All my rents are not just below market rates, but way below.  Tax take has increased. I'm now in a situation that I want to majorily renovate my properties but I've to comply with a whole host of bureaucroacy to do so.  So I'm not going to renovate now, I'm going to wait and then evict my tenants, to the letter of the law, which the RTB recently helpfully sent to me (and other landlords).  And then yes I might get amazing rent.  Or I might very well decide to sell as the hassle is getting worse (annual rtb registration now to drive us all crazy)  

Are you taking in the homeless to your spare room?  

I'm housing refugess, asylum seekers, economic emigrants. Before them it was Polish and Lituanian workers.  Now most of my rent comes from the government via HAP.  Some of my tenants will not turn on the heat and my property is deteroriating.  Which is why I have to renovate.  The new standards are higher than what I have in my own home.


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## Bronte (12 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> 10 years ago they were losing money.



And there were many voids too. It is a cyclical business.  And each time the governement intervens they make it worse.  All the landlords threatened with this latest law should up their rents.  I know I wish I had. But I naively didn't want to do it to my tenants.  More fool me.


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## Bronte (12 Dec 2019)

Sophrosyne said:


> And we need 21st century house building methods.


We need modern good sized appartments in high rises.  With proper regulation as to what gets built.


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## Purple (12 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> And there were many voids too. It is a cyclical business.  And each time the governement intervens they make it worse.  All the landlords threatened with this latest law should up their rents.  I know I wish I had. But I naively didn't want to do it to my tenants.  More fool me.


I moved into my current house 4  years ago. Recognising that I am an excellent tenant and that coming up with the rent each month was a struggle my landlord lowered it by €100 a month. He has not increased it since. I'm currently paying about €500 - €600 a month below the market rate. If I move out he can't increase it much now and if the Shinners and their FF lap dogs get their way he won't be able to increase it at all. Why should my landlord be punished for being nice?


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## Purple (12 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> We need modern good sized appartments in high rises.  With proper regulation as to what gets built.


That requires a level of competence in planning, design and construction that we don't seem to possess. 
It would be great to get local government removed completely from all planning decisions. 
It would be great to see something like planning permissions given on the basis that if construction doesn't start within X time period there would be a CPO slapped on the site and the State would build the houses.
It would be great to see the construction sector start to use 20th century building methods (expecting 21st century methods would be too optimistic).


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## Bronte (12 Dec 2019)

Gervan said:


> I currently have 8 people sharing my 3 bedroom house. It is not ideal.
> One is a student, and can pay his way.
> 
> The others are non-Irish (but legally resident) immigrants (?) refugees (?) not related to me.
> ...




Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post.  You have one paying tenant, the student.  Presumably they get one of the 3 bedrooms.  And the other 7 people are in two bedrooms.  Is that family of 5 in one bedroom.  

The only adult working full time is you?
The Family of 5, the two adults work part time.  Why not full time?
And the other couple, neither is working. One is sick. Why is the other one not working?
Where do you sleep? 
Who told you each child has to have it's own bedroom? 
Why is your house not warm?


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## Bronte (12 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> That requires a level of competence in planning, design and construction that we don't seem to possess.
> It would be great to get local government removed completely from all planning decisions.
> It would be great to see something like planning permissions given on the basis that if construction doesn't start within X time period there would be a CPO slapped on the site and the State would build the houses.
> It would be great to see the construction sector start to use 20th century building methods (expecting 21st century methods would be too optimistic).


I agree with you Purple. But based on some quotes I got for jobs it's impossible to build realistically with the cost of building versus sale price.


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## Purple (12 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> I agree with you Purple. But based on some quotes I got for jobs it's impossible to build realistically with the cost of building versus sale price.


That's because the builders are like the small beef farmers; rubbish at doing their job and expect someone else to pay for their incompetence.


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## fidelcastro (12 Dec 2019)

Purple said:


> The Finns have endless amounts of money ....


Not sure about why you think that.  there isnt that much money in growing timber, 



Bronte said:


> Oh yes I have absolutely scrubbed toilets. Cleaned out the most dire fridges and encrusted cookers. Rebagged gardens of household rubbish.


You can actually get tax relief on cleaning - its an allowable expense, 


Whats wrong with the state building houses for people who can't afford it.  It was done in the 50's,60's,70's. when we didnt have two pennys to rub together.....  yes, It does costs a fortune, yes , no one would willingly give peoples a "free house"  but if you dont, it'll cost you multiples of the sum in the future. 

Oh no, I've got it....we must always follow & copy England and follow its Thatcherite policies.  Good one, hope that ends well.


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## Gervan (12 Dec 2019)

Bronte said:


> Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post. You have one paying tenant, the student. Presumably they get one of the 3 bedrooms. And the other 7 people are in two bedrooms. Is that family of 5 in one bedroom.
> 
> The only adult working full time is you?
> The Family of 5, the two adults work part time. Why not full time?
> ...



I don't really think your questions are relevant to this thread, Bronte. I was trying to demonstrate the "hidden homeless" problem and the difficulties people face finding private accommodation.
The parents of small children are of course juggling employment with caring for the children. The baby sleeps with them, and the other children have another room. 
The partner of the sick person has been applying for jobs for a year without any success. He is of the generation that finds the idea of applying for welfare abhorrent.
Although the house is a 3 bedroom, one downstairs room has been brought into use as a bedroom, and there is also a converted attic.

I was told by the agency dealing with the three bedroomed house for rent that an application by a family with three children would not be even be considered. They could only apply for a four bedroomed property. I don't know if that is the policy of the agency of landlord.

I find your question as to "why my house isn't warm" totally baffling. A combination of poor insulation, as with an old house, and insufficient funds for me to run the heating for 24 hours a day.....


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## Conan (12 Dec 2019)

SF and Eoin O’Broin are particularly vocal about homelessness. Perhaps they might put their money where their mouth is and donate some of the €4.7m inheritance towards this cause? After all they surely haven’t spent all the millions from the Northern Bank robbery?


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## fidelcastro (13 Dec 2019)

Meanwhile Dublin Corporation spend money (22 million est.) on inclusive leisure facilities in the inner city.....white water rafting at 150Euro a go according to media reports.  Well priced for the corporates, but not the locals


What about building a municipal swimming pool for the people.    No chance!


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## galway_blow_in (13 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> Not sure about why you think that.  there isnt that much money in growing timber,
> 
> 
> You can actually get tax relief on cleaning - its an allowable expense,
> ...



The state can't even collect income from the houses it currently owns, (nor can it evict rogue tenants) never mind embark on a massive building of houses


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## Purple (13 Dec 2019)

Conan said:


> SF and Eoin O’Broin are particularly vocal about homelessness. Perhaps they might put their money where their mouth is and donate some of the €4.7m inheritance towards this cause? After all they surely haven’t spent all the millions from the Northern Bank robbery?


There might be a few bob in Jean McConville's handbag as well, if they can remember where they put it.


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## odyssey06 (13 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> Meanwhile Dublin Corporation spend money (22 million est.) on inclusive leisure facilities in the inner city.....white water rafting at 150Euro a go according to media reports.  Well priced for the corporates, but not the locals... What about building a municipal swimming pool for the people.    No chance!



It's an unfathomable *cough* decision.
Are they spending that money on that so they won't have to spend it on something that brings messy responsibilities such as housing?


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## fidelcastro (13 Dec 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> The state can't even collect income from the houses it currently owns, (nor can it evict rogue tenants) never mind embark on a massive building of houses


There are lots of things the State isnt good at doing efficiently.  The list is extensive.  So your suggestion is we privatise housing of our citizens to vulture funds.   
What next schools too.   I suspose a hard Irexit is next , to copy your  British Buccaneeers.




Purple said:


> There might be a few bob in Jean McConville's handbag as well, if they can remember where they put it.


Please, that isnt a nice joke,  and her  her body was found.   I guess you object to Fianna Fail / Fine Gael too, or prefer Trump ?


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## Purple (13 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> Please, that isnt a nice joke,  and her  her body was found.   I guess you object to Fianna Fail / Fine Gael too, or prefer Trump ?


It's not nice that the organisation that killed her gets a serious chunk of the vote in this country. It's always worth reminding people who the Shinners really are when you look behind the curtain. 
I'd vote FF or FG or Trump or Paul Murphy or Mick Wallace any day of the week before I'd vote for child killers and their apologists.


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## galway_blow_in (13 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> There are lots of things the State isnt good at doing efficiently.  The list is extensive.  So your suggestion is we privatise housing of our citizens to vulture funds.
> 
> 
> the state cant collect rent or evict rogue tenants as the political left and media would hammer them


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## Leo (16 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> You can actually get tax relief on cleaning - its an allowable expense,



You know it isn't if you do it yourself!


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## Leo (16 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> Meanwhile Dublin Corporation spend money (22 million est.) on inclusive leisure facilities in the inner city.....white water rafting at 150Euro a go according to media reports. Well priced for the corporates, but not the locals



If the locals in social housing just paid two thirds of the arrears on their means tested rent they'd have cash to spare after building that!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (16 Dec 2019)

fidelcastro said:


> There are lots of things the State isnt good at doing efficiently.  The list is extensive.  So your suggestion is we privatise housing of our citizens to vulture funds.
> What next schools too.   I suspose a hard Irexit is next , to copy your  British Buccaneeers.



The state is actually very competent and building schools and filling them with teachers.

Social housing much less so.


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## Purple (16 Dec 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> The state is actually very competent and building schools and filling them with teachers.
> 
> Social housing much less so.


I'm not sure about the building schools bit.
Teachers are both "Front Line Staff" and "Professionals" and so you are not allowed to criticise them. They are not as untouchable as Doctors or, the holies of all, nurses, but you still aren't allowed to say anything bad about them.


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