# Witholding management fees?



## feebee (12 Apr 2011)

This is a bit complicated, but could do with some advice.

Living in a large development in West Dublin. Some of the houses in the estate (mine included) are built over the road i.e. cars can drive underneath to gain access to parking spaces at the rear.
We are having major problems with vans ignoring the height restrictions and driving through, damaging the buildings. My own house has been badly damaged twice, both incidents involving the Gardai and thousands of euros worth of repairs (luckily the drivers were caught both times and their insurance covered the damage).
Obviously something needs to be done to prevent this happening, so in this regard I have been on to the developer (not their problem), the council (not their problem) and the management agent (guess what, not their problem!). I then contacted my local counselor who took the matter to the local council area meeting where it was established that the management agent is indeed responsible for putting some measures in place to deal with this. I forwarded this response on to the management company at the time.

I spoke to the management agent in December 2010 and was told that they were in the process of putting together a solution (I think they were going to put up signs directing vans to use the other entrance). I have heard nothing from them since about this, despite sending numerous emails, none of which they have had the courtesy to respond to.

Management fees are due for payment soon, have I any right to withhold payment based on the fact that (as far as I am concerned) the management agent is not providing the service they should be? Is there any legal basis for this? I have had to pay for numerous minor repairs to the property over the last few years due to the fact that no preventative measures have been put in place.
I appreciate that by not paying up there is less money there to fund other services, and in this regard I have paid my fees in full and on time every year to date, but I am loath to pay this time round given that they have not even had the courtesy to acknowledge any correspondence (I have kept a record of all emails sent).

Thanks in advance.


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## purpeller (12 Apr 2011)

It's never the right move to not pay your service charge.  The management agent and the company they represent would be well within their rights to completely ignore you if you do.  I realise you're not getting anywhere with them at the moment.  

Are other properties effected by this issue?  If so, you could possibly gather together for a stronger case.  

Another option would be to get signs done up yourself.  You could try sending a registered post letter to the directors of the company outlining your problems, and saying that their silence will be taken as assent that they will pay for it and get signs made up.


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## Bronte (12 Apr 2011)

They should put up a structure before the bridge that will prevent large vans driving under the bridge.  Council's have done this to prevent travellers getting into parking areas with their caravans.  Doesn't look too complicated or expensive.  Sometimes they have metal rings hanging down to alert the driver.


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## feebee (12 Apr 2011)

Thanks for your replies.

I agree, it's not a good move to withold fees and i have never done so in the past, but at this stage i am just so fed up with them that i am loath to give them any money. 

Yes almost every other similar property in the estate has been damaged (some very badly, serious structural damage).

RE the signs, there is a height restriction sign on the building, which is generally ignored. I actually did have signs made up myself, which were hung from the "archway", however these were ripped clean off, taking most of the plasterwork with them. I have instead resorted to a solid 10 stone steel trim on each side of the building!

I agree the next best step might be getting all of the other owners together, strength in numbers etc.

Thanks again for your responses.


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## redfedora (12 Apr 2011)

to answer your question re the fees no you dont have a legal right to withhold payment.  you'll probably find that theres a clause in your contract that states the management company has no obligation to provide *ANY* services. if you refuses the management company would have every right to send your account for debt collection and besides that your arguement looses any legitimacy as the company can simply refuse to deal with you until your service charges are paid in full.  

What you should do is contact the directors of the management company directly and explain the situation to them. take photos of the damage to sho to them, record dates and times etc as proof.  The Agent takes direction from the directors. Raise the matter as an agenda point for the next AGM wriet to teh Agent and directors and ask them to discuss the issue as it effects many people. you'll probably find others share your sentiment. 

the easiest solution seeing as the drivers are just blind is to erect a height restriction barrier before the building like what you see on some street level car parks, theres a big yellow bar that goes above the entrance and it stops trucks etc from coming in. or at the very least they hit that and not the building. 

failing that give joe duffy a call


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## Yorrick (14 Apr 2011)

" failing that give joe duffy a call "

Is that what we have come to ?

You have signed the agreement. You are obliged to pay. There is a mechanism at the A.G.M. to raise matters of concern. Joe Duffy won't pay your legal costs when you are brought to court


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## redfedora (15 Apr 2011)

Yorrick said:


> Is that what we have come to ?


 
you obviously missed the  at the end of the line. maybe i should have inserted a  instead to save on the confusion. 

I think you'll find i said they dont have a legal right to withhold fees. 



			
				redfedora said:
			
		

> to answer your question re the fees no you dont have a legal right to withhold payment.


 
yep i sure did say that. 

on an other note I dont think the company actually has to erect some mechanism to stop the vans & trucks etc, they are only obliged to repair the damage, so raising the issue at general meeting may not actually achieve anything. that said if a number of others hold the same views as the OP then a resolution could be made on the night to get something done. but any company/agent with an iota of sense on will know that by erecting something then they will reduce the need for maintenance and insurance claims.


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## shesells (15 Apr 2011)

It is in the MC's interest to keep the development in as good a condition as possible. In our development we have installed sleepers in some parking spaces to keep the cars from damaging gable walls, and to prevent cars overhanging flowerbeds. It was money well spent. Similarly I think it would be in the development's interest to erect a solution to this damage, surely repeated damage will destabilise the houses leading to potentially massive claims on the MC insurance policy.

As redfedora says, you have NO rights to withold payment of management fees in any situation, you have committed to paying them at purchase and you face legal action to recover your fees if you don't pay. In the majority of cases, Management Companies and Agents withdraw co-operation from non paying units.


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## blacktalons (5 May 2011)

feebee said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> I agree, it's not a good move to withold fees and i have never done so in the past, but at this stage i am just so fed up with them that i am loath to give them any money.
> 
> ...


 just be aware that anything you "hang/put up" causes damage to any vehicle you will be 100% percent liable for damages !!


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## redfedora (6 May 2011)

blacktalons said:


> just be aware that anything you "hang/put up" causes damage to any vehicle you will be 100% percent liable for damages !!


 

seriously?? if teh driver was too idiotic to take heed of a big a$$ sign that blocks his way then the signhanger (is that a word??) is responsible?  got to love the twisted logic of Ireland. is the wall builder also responsible if the drive ploughed into it coz he zigged instead of zagged? 

sorry for the sarcasm i just find it incredible that someone crashes into something and they are free from any liability and may actually be due compensation.


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## zenga (24 Jun 2011)

You need to be very careful how you proceed with this matter.

No 1: Management Fee's

The management fee is for a range of services provided. Just because 2 people drive eraticly and cause damage to your apartment. How is this the managment companys responsibility??

No 2: If the management company were to erect any safety signs etc, they run a legal risk should anything happen, plus the costs of erecting the signage would be borne by all owners including yourself. At the end of the day the other owners may not deem it neccessary that it is done and would rather spend the money on another project. You would need to try and build a concensus in the developement for your case. Take an interest in the developement and turn up at the agm, this way you will get to know the other owners on the board and can make your plea directly to them.


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## Complainer (24 Jun 2011)

zenga said:


> No 2: If the management company were to erect any safety signs etc, they run a legal risk should anything happen


Could you please expand on this? How can erecting signs increase the risk to the management co?


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## zenga (19 Jul 2011)

I would imagine that by erecting signs they are effectively taking responsibility for the safety risk caused. Also as you stated earlier, signs were ripped off before. If a sign fell off onto someone it would be the person(s) that hung it that would be responsible.

Im afraid there is very little the management company can do in this situation, if people ignore the signs that are already errected what use will another one do??

And apart from signage what else could possibly be done to solve the problem??


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