# Shortage of secondhand cars.



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

I need to replace my car pretty soon but there's hardly anything available (in Dublin area) in the models I'm interested in (Hyundai i30; Kia Ceed; Seat Leon). In keeping with my budget, I'm aiming for a 2015/2016 model. Probably to do with the demand due to shortage of new cars.

Granted, I'm a bit choosy about the car colour in that I don't like white, black or grey.

Would 2013/2014 models be too old, even if they're in good condition?


----------



## PGF2016 (26 Jan 2022)

Too old for what exactly? 

I have a 2013 low mileage model that you have listed and it's in perfect condition.


----------



## Leo (26 Jan 2022)

The average age of cars on the roads here is ~8.5 years, so even a 2013 model wouldn't be old by Irish standards.


----------



## Baby boomer (26 Jan 2022)

There's been a huge increase in the price of used cars ever since the pandemic severely curtailed production of new models.  It's a worldwide thing and won't ease until production ramps up again and demand for new cars is met. (Plus we have the extra wrinkle here that Brexit has messed up the UK import option.) 

Unfortunately it means that now is a dreadful time to buy a used car.    If you can hold off at all, prices should drop over the next year or so.


----------



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

PGF2016 said:


> Too old for what exactly?
> 
> I have a 2013 low mileage model that you have listed and it's in perfect condition.


Good to hear that. I suppose it depends on how well the car has been looked after. I tend to imagine that cars over a certain age will have more mechanical problems.


----------



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

Leo said:


> The average age of cars on the roads here is ~8.5 years, so even a 2013 model wouldn't be old by Irish standards.


I tend to think of anything over five years as an 'old' car!


----------



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> There's been a huge increase in the price of used cars ever since the pandemic severely curtailed production of new models.  It's a worldwide thing and won't ease until production ramps up again and demand for new cars is met. (Plus we have the extra wrinkle here that Brexit has messed up the UK import option.)
> 
> Unfortunately it means that now is a dreadful time to buy a used car.    If you can hold off at all, prices should drop over the next year or so.


I didn't move in time, as usual! The NCT on my present car is up in mid February and it isn't worth spending a fortune just to bring it up to standard. So I have to buy now, whether I like it or not.


----------



## dereko1969 (26 Jan 2022)

would you not just use the NCT to identify any specific issues rather than presuming there might be more issues that would make it not worth fixing?


----------



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

dereko1969 said:


> would you not just use the NCT to identify any specific issues rather than presuming there might be more issues that would make it not worth fixing?


I took it in for a service recently and the garage quoted me almost €3,000 in repairs and parts. Maybe they just didn't fancy taking on an older vehicle. The car itself is probably worth about €500–800.


----------



## banjopotato (26 Jan 2022)

We've always bought used cars, but the rise in the price of used cars entirely changed the calculation for us. Not only were the cars we were looking at much more expensive, but our own car had also increased in value. Add to that my own judgement that we're approaching a tipping point for electric vehicles and an offer of 0% PCP financing from VW, and we took the plunge on a new ID.3. Took them 6 months to deliver but they honoured both the trade-in quote and the 0%.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't have bought a new car on a PCP. My thinking though is that the problems in new car production and the likely continued rise in demand for used--particularly electric--cars make this a unique situation, one in which today's new EV is likely to retain a lot more of its value in 3 year's time than it otherwise would have. There simply won't be as many used cars in the 3-year-old sweet spot. Add to this that the government subsidies for new EVs may be reduced in the future, which is likely to increase the value of used EVs.

Anyway, this could all be wrong and there may be lots of other considerations I haven't taken on board. But we're loving the new car: it's like nothing I've ever driven before.


----------



## pingin (26 Jan 2022)

banjopotato said:


> We've always bought used cars, but the rise in the price of used cars entirely changed the calculation for us. Not only were the cars we were looking at much more expensive, but our own car had also increased in value. Add to that my own judgement that we're approaching a tipping point for electric vehicles and an offer of 0% PCP financing from VW, and we took the plunge on a new ID.3. Took them 6 months to deliver but they honoured both the trade-in quote and the 0%.
> 
> Ordinarily, I wouldn't have bought a new car on a PCP. My thinking though is that the problems in new car production and the likely continued rise in demand for used--particularly electric--cars make this a unique situation, one in which today's new EV is likely to retain a lot more of its value in 3 year's time than it otherwise would have. There simply won't be as many used cars in the 3-year-old sweet spot. Add to this that the government subsidies for new EVs may be reduced in the future, which is likely to increase the value of used EVs.
> 
> Anyway, this could all be wrong and there may be lots of other considerations I haven't taken on board. But we're loving the new car: it's like nothing I've ever driven before.


Congratulations on your new car. Great that you're enjoying it. There seem to be exciting things happening there.

I'm not going the EV route just yet, as I do long journeys on a regular basis. I did choose the worst possible time to change cars, when I could have done it two years ago. The Credit Union is my bank of choice.


----------



## noproblem (26 Jan 2022)

pingin said:


> Congratulations on your new car. Great that you're enjoying it. There seem to be exciting things happening there.
> 
> I'm not going the EV route just yet, as I do long journeys on a regular basis. I did choose the worst possible time to change cars, when I could have done it two years ago. The Credit Union is my bank of choice.


Expensive, I would have thought?


----------



## roker (9 Feb 2022)

pingin said:


> I tend to think of anything over five years as an 'old' car!


My car is 17 yrs old, averages 40mpg and doesn't us oil, it's reliable and only worth €1500, if anyone smacks into it I've lost nothing, I have savings for another car . Why get rid of it,


----------



## ClubMan (9 Feb 2022)

roker said:


> Why get rid of it,


Because many (most?) insurers won't cover it?
What kind of engine does it have that it doesn't use oil?


----------



## roker (9 Feb 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Because many (most?) insurers won't cover it?
> What kind of engine does it have that it doesn't use oil?


It of course needs oil but doesn't use oil. Petrol 250,000 km does not need Topping up between service.
It never failed a NCT, why should the insurance refuse it


----------



## Baby boomer (10 Feb 2022)

roker said:


> It of course needs oil but doesn't use oil. Petrol 250,000 km does not need Topping up between service.
> It never failed a NCT, why should the insurance refuse it


Reminds me of the old joke:

- Does she burn oil?
- She would if she got it!


----------



## Thirsty (10 Feb 2022)

roker said:


> never failed a NCT, why should the insurance refuse it


Your existing insurer will continue to insure you; but you'll find, if you try to change insurers, they won't take you as new business.


----------



## Nicetoknow (10 Feb 2022)

Does this happen at 10 years plus? Thanks


----------



## Introuble83 (10 Feb 2022)

pingin said:


> I didn't move in time, as usual! The NCT on my present car is up in mid February and it isn't worth spending a fortune just to bring it up to standard. So I have to buy now, whether I like it or not.


Put the ca thought the nct then make a decision . I have had many old Bangers that have passed an nct with zero work required. The age of the car is irrelevant. I’d it’s maintained correctly any car will last as least 20 years


----------



## ClubMan (10 Feb 2022)

Nicetoknow said:


> Does this happen at 10 years plus? Thanks


Depends on the insurer.
But more and more they're refusing to cover "old" cars.
I think that 15 years may be a more common cut off age?


----------



## Peanuts20 (10 Feb 2022)

Interestingly when I moved to a new hybrid a couple of years ago, my insurance was reduced even though the value of the car was more then my old one. I was told it was because hybrid drivers were considered safer drivers but also I would imagine it was because it doesn't have the same welly as older cars.


----------



## John Locke (10 Feb 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Because many (most?) insurers won't cover it?
> What kind of engine does it have that it doesn't use oil?


I changed from allianz to aviva last year, car is 14 years old.


----------



## roker (10 Feb 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> Reminds me of the old joke:
> 
> - Does she burn oil?
> - She would if she got it!


Or the guy that got a puncture, he was taking the wheel of and another guy came along and said "if you're taking the wheels I'm having the battery


----------



## Baby boomer (10 Feb 2022)

roker said:


> Or the guy that got a puncture, he was taking the wheel of and another guy came along and said "if you're taking the wheels I'm having the battery


The old ones are the best!!


----------



## odyssey06 (10 Feb 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> Interestingly when I moved to a new hybrid a couple of years ago, my insurance was reduced even though the value of the car was more then my old. I was told it was because hybrid drivers were considered safer drivers but also I would imagine it was because it doesn't have the same welly as older cars.


My 22 year old Toyota (1.3 hatchback) gave up the ghost and I've now switched to a Toyota hybrid which has actually more welly (1.5 hatchback) ... insurance was the same (Aviva).


----------



## Peanuts20 (10 Feb 2022)

odyssey06 said:


> My 22 year old Toyota (1.3 hatchback) gave up the ghost and I've now switched to a Toyota hybrid which has actually more welly (1.5 hatchback) ... insurance was the same (Aviva).


 
New hybrids have a kick, I'm on my 2nd one and it is much better then my first one in terms of acceleration, insurance still cheaper though


----------



## ClubMan (10 Feb 2022)

John Locke said:


> I changed from allianz to aviva last year, car is 14 years old.


Good luck next year when it's 15+ and most insurers won't cover it.








						AA Advice on how to insure older cars
					

Following news that two of Ireland's major insurance providers will no longer covercars over 15 years old, the AA offered this advice on insuring older cars




					www.theaa.ie


----------



## John Locke (10 Feb 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Good luck next year when it's 15+ and most insurers won't cover it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I also have a 100+ year old house and many insurers won't cover, I don't think it's that big an issue really, just get quotes from the ones that do..
That AA article is 7 years old, things may have changed anyway..


----------



## ClubMan (10 Feb 2022)

John Locke said:


> That AA article is 7 years old, things may have changed anyway..


Yes, most likely by even more insurers ceasing to cover 15+ year old cars in the meantime.


----------



## roker (10 Feb 2022)

odyssey06 said:


> My 22 year old Toyota (1.3 hatchback) gave up the ghost and I've now switched to a Toyota hybrid which has actually more welly (1.5 hatchback) ... insurance was the same (Aviva).


I heard that hybrids are not great on mpg, how do you find yours?


----------



## odyssey06 (10 Feb 2022)

roker said:


> I heard that hybrids are not great on mpg, how do you find yours?


Too soon to say as I only have it 2 weeks... I mostly city drive so lot of brake recharging opportunities. Would be different on motorway but havent been out of Dublin yet.


----------



## Roro999 (10 Feb 2022)

Car 16 years old. Not a problem for this year anyway.  Paying  premium later this month.


----------



## ClubMan (10 Feb 2022)

Roro999 said:


> Car 16 years old. Not a problem for this year anyway.  Paying  premium later this month.


How many quotes did you get?
Did you switch insurers?


----------



## Roro999 (10 Feb 2022)

ClubMan said:


> How many quotes did you get?
> Did you switch insurers?


With same insurance company for several years. It did cross my mind that my car was turning 16 years but the quote came out and I called them and got a discount. I got no other quotes.


----------



## RichInSpirit (10 Feb 2022)

I've a eighteen year old car with 430000km.
Bought for about a weeks wages 3 years ago.
I am hoping that it lasts another 2 years.


----------



## peemac (10 Feb 2022)

The insurance issue is with new drivers with no driving history. 

Doesn't really come into it for drivers with a good record.


----------



## Peanuts20 (11 Feb 2022)

odyssey06 said:


> Too soon to say as I only have it 2 weeks... I mostly city drive so lot of brake recharging opportunities. Would be different on motorway but havent been out of Dublin yet.


New hybrids are definately more efficient then older versions. My new one has a gauge that tells you what % of a trip is battery and non battery, driving around town and assuming it's charged then I get about 60-65% on the battery. I did a couple of 80k runs on it recently, about 50k of that on motorway and was averaging 20-25% on battery


----------



## Leo (11 Feb 2022)

peemac said:


> The insurance issue is with new drivers with no driving history.
> 
> Doesn't really come into it for drivers with a good record.


I was being refused quotes for a 13 year old car, and I had >25 years with zero claims.


----------



## John Locke (28 Apr 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Good luck next year when it's 15+ and most insurers won't cover it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the good luck, I've just insured my now 15 year old car.
Aviva were looking for €30 extra on the renewal this year, but switched back to Allianz for €105 less than that.

A ~20% reduction even with my geriatric jalopy.


----------



## roker (11 Jul 2022)

banjopotato said:


> We've always bought used cars, but the rise in the price of used cars entirely changed the calculation for us. Not only were the cars we were looking at much more expensive, but our own car had also increased in value. Add to that my own judgement that we're approaching a tipping point for electric vehicles and an offer of 0% PCP financing from VW, and we took the plunge on a new ID.3. Took them 6 months to deliver but they honoured both the trade-in quote and the 0%.
> 
> Ordinarily, I wouldn't have bought a new car on a PCP. My thinking though is that the problems in new car production and the likely continued rise in demand for used--particularly electric--cars make this a unique situation, one in which today's new EV is likely to retain a lot more of its value in 3 year's time than it otherwise would have. There simply won't be as many used cars in the 3-year-old sweet spot. Add to this that the government subsidies for new EVs may be reduced in the future, which is likely to increase the value of used EVs.
> 
> Anyway, this could all be wrong and there may be lots of other considerations I haven't taken on board. But we're loving the new car: it's like nothing I've ever driven before.


You're in trouble if Hydrogen takes off


----------



## roker (11 Jul 2022)

John Locke said:


> Thanks for the good luck, I've just insured my now 15 year old car.
> Aviva were looking for €30 extra on the renewal this year, but switched back to Allianz for €105 less than that.
> 
> A ~20% reduction even with my geriatric jalopy.


My car is 17yr old and my insurance went down this year


----------



## PaddyBloggit (12 Jul 2022)

roker said:


> My car is 17yr old and my insurance went down this year



What make/model of car is it? Did it go down by much?


----------



## roker (12 Jul 2022)

PaddyBloggit said:


> What make/model of car is it? Did it go down by much?


It's a Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol, it still doesn't use oil, averages 40mpg. I have the savings for another car but why change its only worth about €1500. The insurance was approx €45 less with Aviva, I thought this due to government action.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Jul 2022)

roker said:


> My car is 17yr old and my insurance went down this year


This is a trend.

Car insurance has fallen nearly 40% since mid-2016. In nominal terms it's as low as it was in 2001. 

In real terms it's cheaper than it's ever been since records began in the mid-90s.


----------



## Frank (18 Jul 2022)

How is insurance relevant to shortage and increasing prices of 2nd hand cars.
A touch off topic. 

I generally change every 3 years to bump up, newer tech / safety warranty and because I get bored and like cars. 
Never bought new before. 

Not this year as there just isn't the stock out there and defo no value. 
Also the sensible Franks is telling me "nothing wrong with the current car" I don't like him, even if true. 

Car lobby will be happy, even if there was availability in the uk the extra taxes kills most of the grey import market. 
Some very ordinary cars for crazy money.


----------



## Peanuts20 (19 Jul 2022)

Not sure about there being "no stock". Any dealership I pass seems to be crammed full of cars. However the price for good 2nd hand cars has gone through the roof. 

Personally speaking, I changed my car in Jan for a new model, my old one is still sitting, unsold, on the forecourt. It was in decent nick but the asking price is crazy for it


----------



## noproblem (19 Jul 2022)

Called into a showroom yesterday on way home from a day out. This car showroom/garage is a distributer of 3 well known car models. At first glance there are A LOT of new cars, SUV's, vans big and small on the forecourt, I counted 35 (11 vans) between inside and outside, there were at a rough count 30 x 2nd hand cars on display in different areas. Every new car, SUV and van, etc was sold. Half of the 2nd hand cars were sold with signs on them saying so, the rest were for sale and I must say the prices I saw for them were pretty high. If I wanted to book my own in for a service I'd have to wait until the end of the month but would need to make my mind up and book it in otherwise it would be out to August.  Enquired about a 21 2 car and it was one price only, not a penny off. Cash meant nothing. As for my own car, they gave the impression they would be more interested in just straight buying it off me rather than trading it against another car. I don't need to change car and didn't, just wanted to get an idea of what I'm hearing from a lot of people about garages and car sales, etc. Place didn't look busy but there you go, that was my experience.


----------



## Pinoy adventure (19 Jul 2022)

I walk past a well known car dealer every day.
The forecourt used too be packed but nowadays they are leaving about 6-8 feet between each car too make it look like there is loads of cars but there isn’t it’s almost bare.


----------



## T McGibney (19 Jul 2022)

Frank said:


> How is insurance relevant to shortage and increasing prices of 2nd hand cars.
> A touch off topic.


Very off topic indeed but a few AAM regulars keep bringing up the same "if it's 15+ years old most insurers won't cover it" nonsense every time older secondhand cars are mentioned.


----------

