# On "24 hour call" after judgment against me. Neighbours claiming my tenants are noisy



## mark71 (27 Mar 2011)

I recently was brought to court over a noise issue regarding my tenants.

The full story is a bit long to go into here but I'll sum it up briefly. 

My house is next to the neighbours from hell. Myself and my family were forced to leave the house 4 years ago for our sanity and can't sell it so I'm forced to let it to try and cover two mortgages.

  No matter who goes into the house the neighbours are constantly ringing the Guards making complaints till the tenants get so fed up and leave.

Now they have brought me to court where the Judge ruled that I should give my phone numbers to the neighbours and to the Guards, being on 24hr call. 

Only 2 days after handing over the number I had a call after midnight saying my neighbours were in trouble with my tenants. 

They said the tenants were throwing things onto their roof! As per usual when the Guards called to my tenants they were found to be doing nothing wrong.

   The thing is I know full well that if my tenants flush the toilet with the window open I'll be getting a call.

   My question is, can the judge make such a ruling? Expecting me to be on 24hr call, 364 days a year? Even a doctor, Guard or Fireman isn't expected to do that. What about if I'm away? Am I expected to come running when I get another spurious call?

 I looked at appealing the decision which would go to the Circuit Court but this would cost a minimum of €5,000! Which I don't have.


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## Bronte (28 Mar 2011)

It's quite obvious the tenants are at fault if a judge has ruled against you.  You need to evict the tenant's it would seem.


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## Sue Ellen (28 Mar 2011)

Bronte said:


> It's quite obvious the tenants are at fault if a judge has ruled against you.



But is it quite obvious?  If there is a regular turnover in the tenants they can't all be making noise as I learnt over a 14 year period living next door to a rented house.  If the guards found in this instance that the tenants were not at fault surely there must also be a problem with the neighbours also?


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

The house the other side of these people is in the same situation he also can't sell or get tenants.

Since June 2007 I've had 5 sets of tenants with the house being empty up to 10 months at the longest stretch. 

Not one set of tenants has seen out a year contract with the quickest leaving after only 6 weeks.

So no , not obviously the tenants.


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## Ceist Beag (28 Mar 2011)

Not doubting what you say at all mark71 but why did the judge rule on the side of the neighbours? Have you kept track of the number of complaints made by them and how many of them were unwarranted or rejected by the Gardai? You might need to start keeping a log if you haven't up until now as it sounds like the neighbours are being viewed by the courts as the victims in this, not the other way around.


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## hfp (28 Mar 2011)

If the neighbours are constantly ringing the guards when your tenants are doing nothing wrong, could the neighbours not be prosecuted for wasting police time?  How did this manage to get to court if there has been no evidence of wrongdoing by your tenants?


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## Sunny (28 Mar 2011)

Did the Judge just order that you give them your number? Just don't answer it at unreasonable hours.


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

In the court I had copies of the complaints made to the noise environment by my neighbours about my tenants and also complaints they made about  two people living across the road from them. After my response to the noise environment there was no further investigation. On the two people across the road there was an investigator sent out who reported nothing going on to warrant complaints.

In the court my neighbour had copies of the Garda statements for each time they were called out. My solicitor ask to see them and on each one the Guards stated there was no excess noise!  The neighbour countered this by saying they warned the tenants they would call the Guards she then said they'd turn the music down when they knew the Guards were on the way then turn it back up again when gone. 

It seems it was my word against their word and I lost.

About the prosecuting for wasting police time. I asked about this and the Guards told me they have to respond to every call made. Even they are sick to death of them.

When I was living there myself a common why to get the Guards out was for them to ring saying they could hear a woman in distress. 

The person I bought the house off back in 1999 was himself a Guard who I only learnt later had been trying to sell the house for 9 years!  He and his wife were driven to breakdowns by these people.


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

Sunny said:


> Did the Judge just order that you give them your number? Just don't answer it at unreasonable hours.



He told me I was to be on 24hr call, ridiculous. I have to be up at 4.20am for work! I don't know is this for the length of this letting or for as long as I own the house. I'll have to try and get some clarification on this of my solicitor.


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## Ceist Beag (28 Mar 2011)

mark71 could you not approach the Gardai and ask them to make a representation on your behalf (to state that they have called out each time and on each occasion found nothing to warrant the call out)? And also could you ask the Garda you bought the house from to make a statement on your behalf? It sounds like you have more than just your word against your neighbours so this should help your case.


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## AlbacoreA (28 Mar 2011)

So the judge took the word of the neighbour over everyone, Guards, Landlord, Tenants, investigator. Thats hard to accept. 

Could you install CCTV with sound recording. Then you have evidence that the sound didn't change when the Guards were called.  Then sue the neighbor for harassment, loss of business, etc.


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

Ceist Beag said:


> mark71 could you not approach the Gardai and ask them to make a representation on your behalf (to state that they have called out each time and on each occasion found nothing to warrant the call out)? And also could you ask the Garda you bought the house from to make a statement on your behalf? It sounds like you have more than just your word against your neighbours so this should help your case.



I asked about this and thought myself that statements from the previous owner and tenants would be good enough but I was told no, by my solicitor. He said I'd need concrete proof of what they were doing and would need to hire a private investigator to get this. All in all to go this route and try and get them through the courts would cost me about 8k!

A favorite trick of theirs is stabbing car tires in the sidewall. We had at least 6 done and various tenant's have had theirs also. Every one knows who's doing it , but no proof.


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## AlbacoreA (28 Mar 2011)

You need a camera. Even a hidden camera pointing at the first camera. They are bound to attack it.


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## Ceist Beag (28 Mar 2011)

Between this and the other Neighbours from hell thread, there really is something wrong in this country when it comes to protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty in cases like this! Crazy stuff, and no doubt a major headache and stressful situation for yourself Mark and the OP in the case of the other thread.


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

AlbacoreA said:


> So the judge took the word of the neighbour over everyone, Guards, Landlord, Tenants, investigator. Thats hard to accept.
> 
> Could you install CCTV with sound recording. Then you have evidence that the sound didn't change when the Guards were called.  Then sue the neighbor for harassment, loss of business, etc.



It's a catch22 situation. I have to get the tenants to help and there's only so much they'll put up with. With so many places available it's a wonder they're staying anyhow. Then when the place is empty of course there's no noise. 


Yes, a Guard called to us last week ,the night after they had another spurious call out. He told us they couldn't believe they had got away with this kind of thing again. This family have been before this same judge countless times but of course he has to take each case as a separate episode.


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

Ceist Beag said:


> Between this and the other Neighbours from hell thread, there really is something wrong in this country when it comes to protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty in cases like this! Crazy stuff, and no doubt a major headache and stressful situation for yourself Mark and the OP in the case of the other thread.



It sure is stressful. Nearly 12 years of this for my family and I. The poor man and his family across the road have had it for 30 odd years and have spent thousand's in court to get nowhere.

The killing thing is this family have another house in the country about 2 miles from the one they are causing all the grief in. No one can understand, why, if they want to live with out anybody beside them they don't move out to the other house. Then everyone would be happy.


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## ajapale (28 Mar 2011)

Askaboutlaw is for legal questions not covered else where on AAM.

All aspects of the private landlord / tenant relationship (including legal issues) are covered in  Property Investment, Landlord & Tenants' rights.

Generalised rants are covered in Los.

aj
moderator


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## ajapale (28 Mar 2011)

mark71 said:


> My question is, can the judge make such a ruling? Expecting me to be on 24hr call, 364 days a year?



What does your solicitor have to say about the ruling?


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## mark71 (28 Mar 2011)

ajapale said:


> What does your solicitor have to say about the ruling?



I got a letter from him the end of last week for his fee and just a couple of lines instructing me what I had to do according to the Judge. I'll be writing to the solicitor tonight to see if I can get a better understanding of what is expected of me.


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## Bronte (29 Mar 2011)

Mark I can see why you left the house.  Have you any idea what is wrong with the neighbours that they need to be constantly complaining.  

You can't do anything about the judge believing them instead of you which is what the case seems to have boiled down to.  Why do you think the judge felt that way about them, were they very good in court.  Were the tenants in court? 

In relation to the phone, you could be a heavy sleeper and might miss the call etc.

Going back to the incident of the neighbours calling out the guards that the tenant's were throwing stuff on the roof, if there was no stuff on the roof what did the guards say?


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## Complainer (29 Mar 2011)

I predict a voicemail message something like this;

"Thanks for calling your friendly neighbourhood landlord. If you would like to make spurious complaints about noisy tenants, please press 1. If you would like to tell the police about the tyres that you've just punctured, press 2. If you would like to make up stories about well behaved tenants, press 3. Otherwise, leave a message, and I'll call you back when I wake up."


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## Trustmeh (29 Mar 2011)

Personally your on a loser here. I would rent the house out to the worst possible tenant you can think of. Might as well have a tenant in there that REALLY causes them problems - rather than rent to good people that are gonna get abused. Turn your phone off - no need to answer the call directly as long as it goes to voicemail.

I am serious.


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## mark71 (29 Mar 2011)

Bronte said:


> Mark I can see why you left the house.  Have you any idea what is wrong with the neighbours that they need to be constantly complaining.
> 
> You can't do anything about the judge believing them instead of you which is what the case seems to have boiled down to.  Why do you think the judge felt that way about them, were they very good in court.  Were the tenants in court?
> 
> ...



I really do not know what is wrong with them. They have cctv back and front,
their letterbox is sealed up and the kids have been moved to and from every school in the area for various reasons. None of there family is speaking to them and they have no friends. I have met his brother and her sisters and they are fine decent people who'll have nothing to do with them.

Regarding the court. The neighbour represented herself and just told lie after lie to good effect. Swearing on the Bible meant nothing to her.

In a further development we had another  another letter from them today.
Where before they said the tenant was throwing stuff on the roof that's now changed to he was on my roof hitting it with a hammer!!! They also say the Guard was called twice to the house to deal with it. The Guard told us he called just the once and nothing was going on. We are in the process of trying to contact the Guard to show the letter.

They also said hammering was coming from my house at 2am two nights in a row waking them. Once again just my word against their's.

She also mentioned the phone on the letter, wanting confirmation it's my number as it went to message minder when she rang and looking for my landline of which I don't have. Of course when she rang me it came up as private number so how could I get back to her ?



Trustmeh said:


> Personally your on a loser here. I would rent the house out to the worst possible tenant you can think of. Might as well have a tenant in there that REALLY causes them problems - rather than rent to good people that are gonna get abused. Turn your phone off - no need to answer the call directly as long as it goes to voicemail.
> 
> I am serious.



It makes no difference who I rent to. In the end it all falls back on the Landlord.


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## AlbacoreA (29 Mar 2011)

Perhaps the person has some heath issues that are causing this. Some times sick people are really convincing and brilliant in their delusions. 

Regardless I really think you need CCTV that captures sound and only covers your own house. Its the only way you'd be able to dispute any of this.


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## TreeTiger (30 Mar 2011)

It seems to me that you're not getting helpful information from your current solicitor, so I would consider looking elsewhere.  I would be surprised if, these days, you wouldn't get a brief chat with a solicitor at no charge to find out what they could do for you.

Certainly recording of some sort would help your case, whether audio or visual, and this doesn't have to cost a lot of money.  But it would be useful to be able to show that ther was no disturbance occurring before the neighbours reported their latest issue, rather than having to defend or deny the non-existent disturbance afterwards (if that makes any sense).

Have you tried talking to your local councillors or TDs?

Good luck, I feel for you in this awful situation.


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## Bronte (30 Mar 2011)

Why on earth do they have the letterbox closed, how do they get letters.  

How about a softly softly approach and a bit of deviousness.  Did she send the letter directly to you.  That's excellent that she's putting things in writing.  Why don't you reply in writing and get proof of posting.  Not the registered post but the one in the post office that proves you have sent a letter but she won't know this.  Maybe a few months of correspondance which will eventually prove that you are being a good landlord and being sympathic to her will eventually lead to a written trail of how crazy she is.  

In the letter(s) you should reply along the lines of 'My apologies for missing the call, at 1 am last Thursday the 22 March,  unfortunatly I don't have a landline as I can't afford one.  Not sure what happened the phone but I had it right beside my bed but it must have not rung long enough to wake me up.  I would like to get the situation resolved.  What would you like me to do.  My problem is the PRTB say I cannot evict the tenant's unless I have proof of their misbehaviour.  As they make noise and are a nuisance all the time maybe you could tape them with your CCTV camera so that I can then evict them.   Things like that.  Not all in the first letter either.  Also if she wrote that the guards were called twice, ask her at what times and then get proof in writing from the guards that she called them once etc.  

Another question, as they have CCTV front and back did the guards or the judge not ask them for the tapes to prove what the tenant's were doing?

Were the tenants in court.  Was it only the female neighbour who spoke in court.  I find it hard to believe that two people could be crazy.  Would the man agree with his wife?

In the letter does it state that the tenants were hammering, does the garda state that he was told they were throwing stuff on the roof.  Why didn't the guard ask the neighbours where the stuff that was thrown went?  

If the tenants are not at fault how come the lady is up at night so late making calls to you and the guards, does she not work or get up early ?


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## mark71 (30 Mar 2011)

They collect their post from the post office. I think the reason the letterbox is sealed is because they have upset that many people they're afraid what might come through it.

The idea you give about the letters is a great one and something I'll be starting straight away. Thanks.

As for cctv tapes, no the judge did not ask for any. Her word seemed good enough for him.

No tenants were in the court and yes he is as bad as her if not worse. Only recently he was fined €2,000euro for attacking the local school vice principal.

This family once sent out their children with balloons up their jumpers to pop them, mocking the elderly neighbour next door who had breast cancer. This is the mentality we are dealing with.

Regarding the letter. We gave a copy to the Guards yesterday who are going through it and noting all the false claims. The Guard said if it ended up in court again they would come in and vouch for us .

Both of them do not work and are living of disability for him, but that's another story.

Where as we, like a lot of people, are now a single income family trying to survive and pay two mortgages forced on us by these people.

To them taking people to court or being brought to court themselves is just a hobby or day out .


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## SPC100 (14 Apr 2011)

I dont understand how the judge could find against you. It sounds like either a) you need to gather more proof, statements from gardai, other neighbours, tenants, previous owner etc., This is multi-decade so should be easy to get tonnes of proof. or b) the judge did not spend long enough reviewing the details. c) you were not represented well enough

Rather than appealing, would it be cheaper to take the neighbours to court for something else?

No human can be available 24 x 7 . I think a full voicemail message would be plenty fine. "sorry I cant get to the phone right now. please leave your name and number and I will ring you back ASAP"

In terms of further evidence for future court cases, I would bring witnesses with me each time to the house, and get mini statements each time from them and the garda who arrives. I would also log each call they make.


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## SPC100 (14 Apr 2011)

bronte said:


> why didn't the guard ask the neighbours where the stuff that was thrown went?


+1


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## mark71 (17 Apr 2011)

Since I last posted on this there have been a few more developments.

We had more calls late at night and in the early hours complaining of noise, hammering wood at 2am!? Once again the Guards called to the house and there was nothing to see or hear. 

We've also had another letter from these people with made up allegations against my tenant, now only one person there ,the second left. The good thing is all the Guard statements are opposite to what they are saying. 

Only last Sunday she rang us 3 times in the afternoon complaining her children could not study due the noise coming from my house. My wife called over and once again nothing. She then rang the local Gardi nine (9) times!! to complain. The Guard called to the house and not a sound. It turned out the tenant had gone out early that evening. Must have been ghost's. 

I was speaking to the court clerk who told me she has been ringing them non stop to try and get another court order put on me for not answering the phone. So our file is now in front of the judge at the moment. We were told to send in a letter to him detailing everything with all letter's and statement's accompanying  it. Please God we get some result this time.

Also, on another phone I have I've been getting a couple of calls a day from a private number. This started the day after I gave my number to these people.
The phone just rings a max 4 times then stops. I answered once there was someone at the other end but said nothing. Last Thursday I got my second call of the day again but this time answered with a ref's whistle blasting it down the phone. No more calls since then.


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## ajapale (17 Apr 2011)

TreeTiger said:


> It seems to me that you're not getting helpful information from your current solicitor.



I agree with TreeTiger.


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