# €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?



## The Gooner (12 Nov 2007)

Hi all.

Through the maturity and encashment of an Endowment policy that I opened 20 yrs ago, I now have €70k to invest. Stock Markets look like they still have some way to go before full effects of the US sub prime debacle are fully felt, Irish Property seems on a downward curve over the next 12 months so now maight not be the most oppertune time to buy while banks seem to be offering decent enough returns (thank god for competition) on a series of deposit accounts.

I don't currently own any other irish or foreign property, I don't have a share portfolio and luckily, little debt either. I would liek to continue the savings habit - but what would you do - property , shares or leave on deposit for a while ? I am not looking at a short terms gain and am looking forward minimum 5-7 years.
Thanks in advance,
The Gooner.


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## queenlex (12 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - Property, Shares - or Neither?*

you could start off by putting 12k (1k a month) into one of the 7% plus savings a/cs property for one is going to be anything like that for a long time by the looks of it


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## johni (12 Nov 2007)

if your looking for a foreign investment at that level poland is the place to invest . an educated nation with a lot of money flowing back to the country. just like ireland of 20 years ago. the rest is history


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## The Gooner (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - Property, Shares - or Neither?*



queenlex said:


> you could start off by putting 12k (1k a month) into one of the 7% plus savings a/cs property for one is going to be anything like that for a long time by the looks of it


 
Thanks..... any suggestions on which is the best savings a/c to go with ?


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## The Gooner (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*



johni said:


> if your looking for a foreign investment at that level poland is the place to invest . an educated nation with a lot of money flowing back to the country. just like ireland of 20 years ago. the rest is history


 
Thanks John. Have you experience of buying in Poland yourself ? Any suggestions on how to investigate this further - are there agencys, developers who specialize in Polish property that you are aware of ?


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## ClubMan (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - Property, Shares - or Neither?*



The Gooner said:


> Thanks..... any suggestions on which is the best savings a/c to go with ?


See the _Financial Best Buys forum _and the many threads about combining high rate lump sum deposit accounts with high rate regular saver accounts.


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## The Gooner (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - Property, Shares - or Neither?*



ClubMan said:


> See the _Financial Best Buys forum _and the many threads about combining high rate lump sum deposit accounts with high rate regular saver accounts.


 
Will do.... thanks.


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## ubiquitous (13 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*



johni said:


> if your looking for a foreign investment at that level poland is the place to invest . an educated nation with a lot of money flowing back to the country. just like ireland of 20 years ago. the rest is history



Beware of sweeping statements like the above.


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## markowitzman (13 Nov 2007)

sounds like estate agent speak!


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## yob (18 Nov 2007)

I'd be incline to put the lump sum on deposit or garanteed bond,as things are going to be volitile for a while yet,and consider a monthly savings bond to continue the saving habit.


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## desperatedan (19 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

I think you would be well advised to split your lump sum over a number of on-line accounts, FA eSavings, Rabodirect, Anglo and Northern Rock come directly to mind, all c 4.5%-5% 

Be careful of the cut-off points for tiered interest rates, especially with FA.

Then you could open several of the High-Interest Regular accounts, c. 7% still available from FA, Halifax, EBS, AIB, etc, up to €1000 per/month on some

You could then set up a system to transfer money from the lump-sum accounts to the regular savings accounts, until the rates on these drop next year.

This would require a lot of active management.


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## CGorman (19 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*



Just to be helpful... heres the return (before DIRT) IF interest rates of 5% (deposit) and 7% (saver) stay put for 12mts. 

Assume lump on deposit at 5% and several saver accounts at 7% (total 3k a month)

Balance:

Deposit - Savings - Mt Int - Dep Int - Accumulated
67000	|03000	|279.189|       017.499|	0296.688
64000	|06000	|266.688|	034.998|	0598.374
61000	|09000	|254.187|	052.497|	0905.058
58000	|12000	|241.686|	069.996|	1216.740
55000	|15000	|229.185|	087.495|	1533.420
52000	|18000	|216.684|	104.994|	1855.098
49000	|21000	|204.183|	122.493|	2181.774
46000	|24000	|191.682|	139.992|	2513.448
43000	|27000	|179.181|	157.491|	2850.120
40000	|30000	|166.680|	174.990|	3191.790
37000	|33000	|154.179|	192.489|	3538.458
34000	|36000	|141.678|	209.988|	3890.124

Gross Total After 12mts: *73,890*

If in the very unlikely event that rates stay the same, the figure after 2yrs would be... *78,613* approx.... again dirt means its actually less


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## The Gooner (19 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Yeah - Have been looking at a number of the regular savings accounts and I note the comments on the thresholds - but anoone any suggestions on taking some risk with some of the money - what are your vies on Equities - or buy some BOI shares for instance ?


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## CGorman (19 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Cant speak about individual firms... against AAM TOS.

In general equities have come down dramatically in P/E terms in the past few months with banks and construction stocks hardest hit (much to my expense!). Personally I can see that its entirely possible that there's much more to go yet... but if you're willing to suffer a paper loss for the short term I do think there's good value out there - even on the domestic front. 

If I were you and didnt have much time or interest I'd stick a chunk of it into a fund (one with focus on growth firms, not income) and the balance maybe directly on a few speculative punts... but hey, thats just me...


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## yob (19 Nov 2007)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

i'd be incline to avoid the domestic financials,i just dont see where the growth is,unless they get taken over.but if you do want to stay domestic perhaps the construction firms,with legislation on new builds heading towards more energy efficant homes it suits some companies etc etc,do some research,but remember theres still a lot of volatility out there,so i stand by my first post......but this is only my opinion.


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## yob (21 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

hey gooner,just being going over this post,and find it interesting to see some of the replies,and am wondering what you decided if anything,interesting times dont you think.yob


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## thomsk (21 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Instead of savings accounts for a year - have you considered buying gold and silver? This can be done via owning it physically, or via ETF'S.
In recessionary times, they usually perform well. Maybe put half into savings, half in gold/silver?


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## yob (22 Jan 2008)

gold is up there at the moment,dont you think,i just wonder would you make more money doing nothing,and ride it out for a few more months,the water looks very chopie to me,but then thats just me,the wind could change!!!!!!!!!yob


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## thomsk (22 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Bought gold in september, and if I sold now( after costs ) I'd be up 23%. It's spot price has risen more than 3% today alone ( due to fed 75 pts cut ).

World economies look shaky at the moment, and 2008 doesn't look too well on stockmarket or property front (esp USA)

I would say that gold has a reasonable hike left yet! The negative news for markets seems to be incessant. There's talk of credit card overspending being the next slammmer...


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## yob (22 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

ye,i bought gold in august,but my guy is talking of taking some profit,its a tough call,but any money i have on deposit,in reserve i'm leaving there,i'm going to wait a while


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## markowitzman (23 Jan 2008)

would put 70k in leveraged equity fund ala bloxham high yield which is with pramit ghose.


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## czechmate (23 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*



markowitzman said:


> would put 70k in leveraged equity fund ala bloxham high yield which is with pramit ghose.


 
That fund is down 13% in November, another 4% in December, another 12% in January.  So about 30% in 3 months.  Equity =  high risk.  Leveraged equity = high high risk.  If you're happy with very large swings in your fund value, then fine go ahead but if you are not used to leveraged funds then make sure you are happy coping with the potential losses that go hand in hand with the potential gains.


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## Gautama (23 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Neither, at present.


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## mercman (23 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Have a look at the IIB Bank latest product (the Payout Portfolio). There is two choices 100% Capital Security or 80 % security with upside potential which surely should be over 3 years. Try www.iib.ie


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## sunnyside (26 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Yob / thomsk can I ask how you bought the gold?
Thanks


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## markowitzman (27 Jan 2008)

> Leveraged equity = high high risk.


depends on term of investment.........
over 7-10 years high high risk of making a lot of money!


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## markowitzman (27 Jan 2008)

and no early encashment permitted with this fund which prevents people selling out when they probably should not.


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## thomsk (28 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Sunnyside,
View the following link for a way of buying gold...

http://www.gold.ie/

Can also buy other precious metals, such as silver.
( There's also a video clip that can be viewed regarding the fundamentals of owning gold ).


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## Amru (28 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Don't forget that the price of gold can be volatile too, admittedly it has been volatile in the opposite direction of equities for the last few months. It will probably continue to rise but not necessarily, it could fall, so i wouldn't put all your money into gold.



Also here is a good quote from W Buffett about gold on Wikipedia:

"It gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."


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## smyths (28 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Is there something about spreading your deposits so that you only have €50,000 or less with each bank?  In this way you have a government guarantee to refund that amount should a bank go bust.  The sun is shining!  Why am i thinking like this?


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## Happy Girl (28 Jan 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*



smyths said:


> Is there something about spreading your deposits so that you only have €50,000 or less with each bank? In this way you have a government guarantee to refund that amount should a bank go bust. The sun is shining! Why am i thinking like this?


 
I stand open to correction but my understanding is that this figure is 20,000 euro.


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## ClubMan (28 Jan 2008)

www.itsyourmoney.ie - Protection


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## whatsmoney (31 Jan 2008)

Hi Gooner
Property or shares.... read this before making any decisions
[broken link removed]


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## maciej (2 Feb 2008)

*Re: €70k to invest - property, shares - or neither?*

Please check that site [broken link removed]  there is interesting property report in the left-up corner. Property location Krakow, Poland. 

Other investment opportunity is to invest in polish lands. They have expierience in that [broken link removed]


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## Jim1000 (22 Feb 2008)

Perhaps an interesting way to expose yourself to eastern Europe is to invest in a stock with exposure to the economies rather then put all your eggs in one basket (such as a friend who was sold a one bed apartment in Bulgaria only to realise it was a studio when the deal closed) Without naming names a certain domestic bank announced interest in Bulgaria today as well as having long standing interest in Poland. Bank of Ireland also have a fund opening for a second round I think which invests in a basket of global financial stocks that have been hit by subprime without being exposed to subprime. Think the minimum punt here is 20K.
I also have a friend whose wife is Hungarian. they went is separately to the same estate agent in Hungary on the same day and she was quoted 50K cheaper for the same property (he being the Irish foreign investor) Caveat Emptor


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## yob (8 Jun 2008)

well gooner here i am again reading this post,wow,what ever did you do with the funds from your endowment,hope you did your homework.yob


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