# Parenting advice - start child in school at 4 or 5?



## j26 (7 Jan 2009)

I'm in a bit of a dilemma at the moment.
My daughter is 4 in August, and we are currently debating whether or not to start her in school in September or to hang off another year.

Some points in favour of sending her


She has done an assessment in her creche/playschool and they say that she is ready (she's on the same level as another girl who is 9 months older).
Her 2 best friends in the creche are starting school this year (one of them in the school she will be going to), so I'd be worried that she will feel she will be held back, and get bored or disruptive
She has the opportunity in later years to repeat the leaving.do transition year, and still be relatively young finishing education.
I started school when I was 4, and did okay

The main point in considering holding her back is her age - at just barely 4 I'd have concerns about how she would handle being the youngest in the class, even though she is tall, and her emotional maturity.

Many people are saying hold her back, but I'd be afraid that if we do that, it would stifle her development.

We have a baby due in June/July, so there is also the question of whether she would see being sent to school as her being ignored for the new baby, or whether she would see it as her moving on to new things and now she's the big sister with a whole new set of responsibilities.

Any opinions?


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## truthseeker (7 Jan 2009)

Id send her if I were you. 

If she has friends who are also ready for school then I dont think she would be less mature than other kids in the class (there is a wide variety of maturity amongst kids of the same age anyway so I wouldnt worry about that).

She will have an opportunity to travel or work for a year between school and college if she feels like it without starting college at a late age.

If she is ready for it then let her at it!


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## mosstown (7 Jan 2009)

my daughter had just turned 4 (August as well) when she started school.  We live in London. everything has been fine and i would say that i would notice the difference at the moment now that she is 9 in year 5 (equivalent to 4th class in Ireland).  she struggles a bit with maths but paying for tuition and teachers say this is a development issue because of her age.  if she had started school when she was 5 then i feel she would have had the upper hand.  as we intend moving back to ireland when she has finished year 6 then she will go into 6th class in Ireland instead of going to secondary school which i think will really benefit from.  on the other hand my other daughter started school when 5 (Oct) and she is having a much easier time (year 3 now) - equivalent to 2nd class in Ireland and is top of her class.  from my experience, i would say wait till she is 5, whats all the rush about anyway?  
i started primary school myself when i actually hadnt even turned 4 (I was 4 in the Sept) and looking back I think it would have been more appropriate to send me when i was 5 instead.  everyone in my class was a year older than me which is a long time in a childs development.


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## car (7 Jan 2009)

> Many people are saying hold her back, but I'd be afraid that if we do that, it would stifle her development.



some thoughts on this.

We had the same issue 2 years ago and were quite worried about it, our daughter was 4 in sept, we held her back til last sept and were glad afterwards as while we werent sure at the time, over the extra year she stayed at home it wasnt til the following feb/mar that we thought she was definitely ready.  

Balance stifling her development with enhancing it by only sending her when shes ready.  

She'll make new friends very easily so dont worry about that.

If you decide to send her, keep talking to her about the school coming up long before the baby comes and she wont see it as being pushed off.  Again we have that same poser now with 3rd due next week and our 2nd starting school in sept.  We keep telling her shes starting in sept and shes all excited so hopefully will balance any dilution of attention with new baby coming.   
All basically down to you though, every child is different and only parents will know if theyre ready.


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## huskerdu (7 Jan 2009)

I have never met a teacher who would recommend sending a 4 year old to school. 
I have never regreted waiting until 5, despite both my kids being well able for the work in montesorri. Thats not the issue. 

She will always be the youngest in the class, this may not be a problem now, but what about going to secondary school ( the leap from primary to secondary is a hard one for lots of kids), choosing leaving cert subjects, doing the leaving, choosing a college course .......


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## gipimann (7 Jan 2009)

Have you checked with the primary school that they have a space for your daughter?   The decision to send her this year or not might be out of your hands if the school can't provide a place.


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## mumof3angels (7 Jan 2009)

I think you should send her little girls a very much advanced than boys of 4yrs. Before anyone thinks I am been horrible I have 3 boys under 6 yrs


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## AriesWoman (7 Jan 2009)

I started school at 4 (but was 4 the previous April) and left school at 17 (didn't do transition year). I had to repeat the leaving to get the course I wanted in college and by the time I left college I was 23. 

However most kids do transition year now & if she wanted to do it or had to repeat the leaving it might help her to be the year younger. Also if she wants to do a long course in college and doesn't start till she 5 and does the transition year & maybe has to repeat the leaving she could be 1) older than other people starting in college & 2) older by the time she finishes education.

From she the assessement she sounds mature enough to start school. Also if her 2 best friends start school & she doesn't she might feel left behind.

Also as the previous poster said check that the school has a space for her.


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## Jack2008 (7 Jan 2009)

My advice (and its only my opinion) would be to leave her for another year. We did'nt and really noticed the difference when our son started in secondary school. 

I also think it would also be much more traumatic if you had to hold her back at some stage in Primary School because she was'nt coping! 
Keep her at home with you for another year and cherish every minute of it. At least next year there will be no question or doubt in your mind!


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## Dicette (7 Jan 2009)

I'm not a parent so can only give advice as someone who was 4 starting school and 16 doing leaving cert (17 shortly afterwards).

I always thought it was an advantage - from racing the girls in the class the year under me in school sports  but more importantly gave me a few more years to play with after leaving college. I manage worked professionally for almost 4 years and still go travelling by the age of 25.

The only time I ever found it a disadvantage being younger than my classmates was when I spent a summer on a J1 visa in the states and I couldn't legally drink (from a parent's point of view that is probably a plus) - still it taught me to be a little ingenuous!


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## FredBloggs (7 Jan 2009)

Like a lot of things this depends on the individual but I would err on the side of caution and hold her back.   She will be in class with some girls who are nearly a year older and at that age a year can make a lot of difference.


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## TLC (7 Jan 2009)

We sent our son at 4 and he got on fine, but the teacher recommended that we hold him back in 5th class as he wasn't really mature enough for 2nd level - we had our doubts about holding him back - dent his confidence & all that - but we took the advice & it was the best thing for him.  I don't regret sending him so early to school, he was well able for the first few years (and he said only "babies" go to playschool).  I don't have any girls but in the main, girls do seem to take school more seriously than most boys - judging from friends experience, so why not let her go & assess the situation as she progresses?


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## shootingstar (7 Jan 2009)

I sent my daughter in at 4. I feel it was a mistake. She had to stay back in 5th class as she wasstruggling and it just seemed like she wasn`t as "mature" as the girls in her class. Her teacher also mentioned this was possible as a result of going into school so young. So decision was - she had to stay back a year. She didn`t appreciate that at all...


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## Vanilla (7 Jan 2009)

We had the same dilemma last year. Our daughter was 4 in July. The childminder ( a HSE reg minder with over 30 years experience) said she was ready for school. There was a place at the school. The teacher advised against. Lots of different people said yes or no. I was 4 when I went to school myself but I had older brothers and sisters so was used to dealing with older and other children. My daughter is the oldest of two so she doesnt have the ssame exposure.

In the end I booked the place in school for her and waited until just before term started to make the decision. When the time came I thought it was best to keep her back another year. I am happy with my decision and know that she will be ready this year for sure. I think as her parent that you will intuitively know your own daughter better than anyone else- listen to advice, yes, but at the end of the day you are the best judge.


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## BoscoTalking (7 Jan 2009)

i can only say i was just 4 starting school and believe  i was not as emotionally intelligent as my classmates when i got to second level in particular - as in picked subjects to be with friends for an example and I feel I am not as confident as i might have been.
If you book her into school send her for the first day and then take her our then the school counts her on the roll for numbers so the teacher may thank you for it!


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## carrielou (7 Jan 2009)

My twins were 4 in the July and I started them in school in September, playschool said they were well capabable. I truly believed that in their first 3 years at school that the teacher would suggest holding them back. I checked at the end of each year and no teacher would recommend it. 

They are now in 6th class, the youngest in both classes and in the top 3 pupils.

They go into first year next September and I thank God that the local Secondary had decided to introduce transition year this year.

They were not too young to start school but they would have definitely been too young to finish school without doing the transition year.

My eldest was 4 in March and started the following September and she was always very bright and mature and still is. My only problem now is as a 15 yr old girl in 5th year, she is constantly with friends who are 16 and near 17. It can be a tough one sometimes but due to me sending her to school at 4 and others were 5 in her class, these are now her friends. This age gap doesn't matter when young but when they get to teenagers it makes an awful difference.

I have 2 younger sons, 1 will be 4 in March and I am fighting with myself every day. He so needs school but I really dont want to end up in the same predicement as my other 3. 

Not too bad with boys, but when it comes to soccer, hurling and football he plays a year younger than all his friends!

Not an easy decision and best of luck with whatever you decide.


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## TreeTiger (7 Jan 2009)

I would definitely say wait if you're considering a national school.  I spend some of my work time in national primary schools and have done some analysis of the national mathematics and reading tests.  It is noticeable how often the kids with the lower scores are younger on average than those with the higher scores.

If you're considering a private school your child stands a better chance insofar as it is easier to repeat a year in a private school, however national schools are allocated teachers on the basis of pupils enrolled and therefore they are reluctant to hold a child back.  If a child starts Junior Infants and are not able to cope and need to repeat the year, it means that the next year of Senior Infants has one less, and also there is one less place to offer in the incoming Junior Infants class.

Something else to consider is that it's not just about how intelligent your child is, the motor skills are very important, and it's hard to watch a child who is much younger than most of their classmates trying to deal with what should be a simple task like cutting out a shape on card.  They end up way underperforming on much of the artwork which is a large part of the Junior Infant year.

By the way, the child your daughter is being compared against may not necessarily be performing at the national average.  I wouldn't advise reading too much into a comparison against one child.

Lastly, although it seems a long way away now, when your child reaches 6th year, her friends will be having 18th birthday parties, often in places where alcohol is served, and your daughter will be far and away too young to go to these parties, which may well leave her feeling resentful.

Provided you keep her well occupied in the meantime, waiting another year will, I believe, be far preferable than starting her off in a situation where she is finding school difficult from the get-go.


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## Gordanus (7 Jan 2009)

Dicette said:


> can only give advice as someone who was 4 starting school and 16 doing leaving cert (17 shortly afterwards).



Ditto!  Was beginning to think I was an oddity going by this thread.  I spent 4 years working and living abroad before I went to college and so had a much better idea of what I wanted to do when I got there.  And I enjoyed college life to the full, without getting 'lost' or having problems adapting - great social life and good grades.   Although I wasn't old enough at 20 to be a mature student, I was more mature than many through my life experience.


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## pansyflower (7 Jan 2009)

Worth thinking also of the other end. 
Children in 6th may be "growing out" of Primary Schooling if older or more mature than their peers at this stage. It can be a difficult time for them [and those surrounding them!].


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## Sandals (7 Jan 2009)

I would wait. Seen the difference last May in my husbands niece whos five months off eight years making her communion, too young beside all other kids, not as much cop on really and finding school work difficult. My daughter born four months after the niece only making communion this May at eight plus five months. Asked two national school teachers this question, both said wait (unless the school need the numbers and child can always stay back). Hope this helps.....

As for second level, it becomes quite evident which first year is nearer the 12 years of age mark than the 14 mark.


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## gianni (7 Jan 2009)

Just to give another slant on it... I started in National School at 3, I wasn't 4 until the following May. I don't believe that it ever hampered my progress or caused any major problems. I think its really horses for courses - some children will be able for it and others won't. 

I had several older siblings so perhaps this was a factor in me being able for the 'rough & tumble' of school life ?? They were always around to look out for me and step in when required!!


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## SillyBilly (7 Jan 2009)

Without sounding cliched I think it entirely depends on the child.  I turned 4 in June and started school that Sept and thrived, but I think maybe it was more common to start school that age back then.  My bf's child started school at 4, did great for the first year or two and is now really struggling, it's clear it wasn't the right decision for that child.  

Overall, unless the child is already very clearly *too* advanced for playschool (not just the ability to keep up with the others) I think the safest decision is to wait until 5.  Just an opinion!


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## Stronge (7 Jan 2009)

I feel that this is one subject that only the parent can decide. Only you really know your child and how they cope in particular siutations.
My eldest child a boy went to school in Sept. and was five later that month. My second was a girl who started school in Sept and was 4 in the Octobert after.....  In some ways my daughter was more ready. She went through primary with no problems due to her age. There was transition year in her school so she was 17 when she did her Leaving Cert. I am talking about the 1980's when times and children were different lots of children stated school at 4 then.  I have seen children who start at 5 having problems.  Go with your gut feeling lots of people will say its too young but they do not know your child like you do.


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## allthedoyles (7 Jan 2009)

I would leave her until starting at 5 ............and she will start secondary at 13 ............and can still do transition year and finish at 18


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## Hillsalt (7 Jan 2009)

My daughter will be 4 in November 2009. She will start school in September 2010, 2 months before her 5th birhtday. 

My 1 year old son will also commence his schooling when he is 5.

A big factor for me as a father is that I want my kids to be 'street wise' so they will have an advantage over other kids, however slight, when they enter the educational system.


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## Mauri (7 Jan 2009)

Just my opinion, I'm the mother of four adult children, we decided to wait until they were 5yrs old to send them to school. Birthdays were April, May, June and August. They were not ready emotionally or psychologically to start at 4. Fortunately we had an excellent Montessori school locally and sent them for two and a half hours each morning. They were in a group of ten children to one adult. 
I think we are the only country in Europe who start our children in formal education at 4/5 yrs old in classes of at least *30, *which sometimes canlead to crowd control at best.I would be more concerned for the emotional development of the child, if this is upset the academic progress and confidence building will suffer. Children of this age are not ready to sit still and silent for the best part of  four and a half hours.They need lots of free and imaginative play. 
They may also be overwhelmed by such a large group of children, (as my 5 yr old daughter was) and perhaps teacher not having the time to listen to what ever is most urgent for them to express and get a response to at that moment.
My suggestion would be postpone primary school and place her in a good Play/Montessori group for a couple of hours each morning. Plenty of time for formal education. Best of luck.


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## shesells (8 Jan 2009)

I agree with the posters who say it depends on the child. I begged my mother to send me  to school at 4 and it was the right thing for me. Didn't have the option to do transition year so I was 17 when I did my leaving and 20 when I got my degree. I then took a year off to decide what I should do next and I was only 21 when I went back to do a Masters.

Age was never an issue for me and I didn't struggle at school at all. But then again I was able to read at 3. However my next sister was just a month short of 5 when she started school and she could have done with waiting another year. OP only you know if your child is ready but if she really wants to go then that has to count for something too.


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## purpeller (8 Jan 2009)

I think it really does depend on the child but to add my 2 cents:
I was an August baby who went to school at 4.  Growing up I was aware I was one of the youngest in my class but I never felt academically or emotionally behind.  I know now my parents feel they should have waited and asked every year if I should be held back but teachers never felt it was necessary.  My school had an optional transition year program which my parents insisted I do.  This was the only time I wished I'd gone to school at 5 - as without exception all my friends skipped 4th year.  However, I now believe that it was 100% the right decision for me and I went into 5th year prepared.

Best of luck whatever you decide.


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## alaskaonline (8 Jan 2009)

> I think we are the only country in Europe who start our children in formal education at 4/5 yrs old in classes of at least *30*


 
i am starting to think so, too. other countries have classes of 20-23 (max) and kids start school with 5/ 6/ 7 years of age. in these countries it is down to the month the child was born and a development test with what age the child starts school at.


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## aman (8 Jan 2009)

My oldest child is an August baby too & we sent her the month after she turned 5. I really feel that it was the best thing for her. I myself was sent to school 3 weeks before I turned 4 & was always the youngest in the class the whole way through & it definitely influenced my decision to wait for my child. I don't think she would have had any great difficulty with the academic work but I felt emotionally that extra year helped to develop her self confidence.

Many schools only take children who have turned 4 before April of that year into Junior Infants & any teacher I have ever spoken to has said it is better to wait until the child is older.


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## mariagalway (8 Jan 2009)

I would ask the school what their advice is, and also what the average age will be in the class she will be in.  The school my kids are in always advocates turning 4 before May when they are starting school.

I have a 6 yr old, birthday in June, who started school when she was 5.  There is a girl in her class a full year younger, and the difference between them socially is huge.  I think it is easier for kids to cope with school, especially if there is a big class size, if they start when they are a little older.


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## csirl (9 Jan 2009)

Depends on the child, but I'd always favour sending a child that is comfortable going to school at age 4.

Younger children have a much greater capacity to learn and adapt to new situations than older children. This is to do with the physical make-up of a young childs brain. As they get older, their brains set and learning is at a slower pace. The difference between a 4 and 5 year old is huge. 

A straw poll of people I know (not scientific) seems to suggest that those that went to school younger seem to have better long term academic results. I myself went to school at barely 4. A couple of years later there was an issue in the school over numbers and a bunch of kids were jumped a year i.e they skipped 1st class - those that were most advanced. Interestingly, most of these kids were barely 4 when they started and all also ended up in the top half of the class in the year they were jumped up into, though 2 years younger than most kids. I put this down to the physical capacity to adapt and learn more at a younger age.

Sending a kid to school at 5 means they will likely be 6 before the end of junior infants. This is far too old to be in junior infants for most kids. Kids can also be cruel with one another. In a kids world, kids who can do things at a younger age than their peers are looked up to by their peers and those who are older are looked down upon. 

You will also see a big jump in development of a kid when they start school. Kids who seem a bit overwhelmed during the first few days of term will soon settle down and become confident in their new surroundings within a few weeks. They will mature a lot in a short time.

Our education system is set up for a kid to start school at 4 years of age. Unless their are good reasons (which there can be in many cases), then kids should go to school at 4.


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## micheller (9 Jan 2009)

Myself and OH both went to school at 4 and both feel we benefited from this approach. Certainly I was always in the top of classes. We also feel we would have been bored stiff by being older in the 'baby' classes. 
It also meant that we felt no pressure to know exactly what we wanted to do in second/third level and felt we could travel/explore at our own pace. Being one of the youngest and having a teenage attitude in 5th & 6th year, I cannot imagine how I would have felt being 18 in school. Sounds awful to me.

We have twin June babies now and intend on sending them to school at 4 and a bit too.


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## j26 (9 Jan 2009)

Thanks for all the replies - I haven't been back since as my little "angel" broke the screen on my laptop .

Pretty much all of what you've been saying has been going through our heads for the past while, so we haven't got much closer to a decision.  I lean more towards starting her, but Mrs 26 seems more inclined to hold her back.

I think maybe the next step is to have a closer look at the assessment that was done (apparently a number of children were deemed not to be ready).  If it deals with the social and emotional rather than just intellectual and motor skills, I'd swing towards sending her.

I believe there are places available in the school she will be going to, so I think we'll book a place just in case.


Anyway, thanks to all for sharing your experiences.  It will help us.


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## turbo (10 Jan 2009)

I would wait until she is 5. Childhood is valuable. From my point of view why would you send the child at 4 if there was any prospect of her struggling to keep up with her classmates, either in Junior Infants or in later years. Childhood should be as carefree as possible and you want your child to be able to sail through school, an extra year will give her this edge. Involve your child in loads of extra-curricular activities in the meantime to keep her occupied and interested.  Also, she can continue with all her extra-curricular activities when she starts school, as hopefully the extra year will mean school won't be as taxing on her.

Best of luck


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## juke (10 Jan 2009)

Nothing to contribute save, thank *** I've no children - because the posts here are so divided. I had never realised this could be an issue.

OP - you'll make the best decision that best suits your child now - go with your gut - you know your child


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## BellaBooper (18 Aug 2009)

My Daughter has just turned 4 (August), I want her to attend the same school as my Son who is 2 years older than her.  It is an Irish Speaking school.  Over the last couple of years the school have been desperate for numbers, due to all the cut backs they need more pupils to make up the student teacher ratio.  I was told that she could start in Sep 09, so I planned for it.  Now it seems that they have too many pupils starting so they are prioritizing by age and she may not get in now.

I do have a place for her in another school and was thinking of sending her there for the year and then moving her to the Gaelscoil, where she would repeat junior infants.  I have called the Dept of Education and they advised that Children are no longer ALLOWED repeat years in primary school - does anyone know if this is true as I have had mixed reactions to this.  PPS numbers are given to the schools now, so is this how its tracked? I really dont want to mess up her place at the Irish School, but I need her to start school this year.


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## vectra (18 Aug 2009)

i would wait until the child is 5.  I sent my daughter at 4(she was 4 since April).  I found that she was the youngess in the class and i decided to let her repeat junior infants.  I can say it was the best decision i ever made.  That extra year makes an awful difference.  If you are not 100% happy about sending your child at 4, then don't.  I know of other children you are sent at 4 with no regrets, but i knew deep down i should not have sent her til she was 5.  I do think it can come against them in secondary school as they are that bit too young leaving school.  
best of luck


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