# Unofficial Child Minding



## legend99 (15 Sep 2005)

Lads,
What kind of rates are people used to for the type of set-up where a friend of say a kids grandparent minds the child. I know that the standard issue with this type of set-up is that its all blackmarket, tax free, parent should probably be paying PRSI, child minder should declare for tax but noone does.

So with that set-up, anyone give me a range of what say 3 afternoons a week for a child aged 5 upwards, being minded from 1pm to 6pm might cost?

And please, no lectures on tax stuff...without these type of women minding kids the country would fall apart as thousands of parents would suddenly not be able to work.


----------



## Henny Penny (15 Sep 2005)

A woman I know of charges 15 euro per child per day.


----------



## ubiquitous (15 Sep 2005)

€15 euro per child per day wouldn't be abnormal in my own neck of the woods


----------



## Purple (15 Sep 2005)

I'm payinf too much so...


----------



## DaveD (16 Sep 2005)

I'd expect to pay more than €15 for 5 hours child minding and certainly more than €15/day, the woman Henny Penny knows must be running a charity service.

I wouldn't imagine €3/hour gets the child very much attention. Childcare is expensive and no reason to expect it not to be, but its the person doing the minding thats important


----------



## ubiquitous (16 Sep 2005)

The converse of that point is that expensive childcare is not necessarily any better than cheaper childcare.


----------



## Henny Penny (16 Sep 2005)

No she's not running a charity. I'm not in Dublin ... but this woman is making a mint. She has upward of 25 children every day. Despite repeated attempts the health board has not been able to close her down ... parents just withdraw their children until the heat is off ... or claim that it's a birthday party etc. Do the maths ... 25children * 15euro *52weeks ... all tax free! Children's welfare does not enter the equation.
On the flip side, one of my neighbours also minds a single child ... and charges 65/75 euro per week ... and treats the child as one of her own.


----------



## Diziet (16 Sep 2005)

DaveD said:
			
		

> I'd expect to pay more than €15 for 5 hours child minding and certainly more than €15/day, the woman Henny Penny knows must be running a charity service.
> 
> I wouldn't imagine €3/hour gets the child very much attention. Childcare is expensive and no reason to expect it not to be, but its the person doing the minding thats important


 
I pay €20 per day for 6 hours childminding for a 4 year old. I also pay my minder 4 weeks holiday a year. Very happy with the minder, and my kid gets plenty of attention. What would you consider a non-charity service, based on the fact that this is all cash in hand? 

I have known a minder who charged €8 per hour and provided an abysmal service. Cost is no indication of quality.


----------



## polaris (16 Sep 2005)

We pay €220 per week to a childminder to mind a 9 month old and a school-going 5 year old, this includes any holidays she takes during the year.

However, she comes to our house every morning and collects our son from school so she's worth every cent.


----------



## Lorrie (16 Sep 2005)

I pay an excellent rate of €60 per week and she collects my ten year old son from school at 2.30 pm until 5.00 pm. She is very fond of him and he loves it there.


----------



## DaveD (19 Sep 2005)

"Childcare is expensive and no reason to expect it not to be, but its the person doing the minding thats important"

I think some may not have understood me correctly, I did say that its the person doing the childminding and not the cost thats important, always within reason of course.

Diziet, if you're happy with the person minding your child then thats the important thing, the fact that you're getting the service cheaply is just a bonus for you, although the taxman mightn't see it that way.

Henny Penny's reply concerning the woman minding sort of illustrates my point. Its just not humanly possible for one person to mind 25 children and parents who leave their children with her should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## Summer (20 Sep 2005)

"Henny Penny's reply concerning the woman minding sort of illustrates my point. Its just not humanly possible for one person to mind 25 children and parents who leave their children with her should be ashamed of themselves."


It never ceases to amaze me that when the childcare legislation was introduced it applied to all non school going children. So if your 4 year old was being minded it had to be a ratio of 8 children to 1 adult. He is still 4 and starts school in a classroom of 33+ children and there is no problem.


----------



## JohnnieKippe (22 Sep 2005)

We pay €25 per day for our 18 month old. 10am till 5.30. Very happy with child minder. Its 3 days a week - so €75 per week. We pay 52 weeks a year regardless of hols etc as we value the minder so much.


----------



## delta73 (25 Sep 2005)

I was paying 5 euro an hour to my childminder, my son (now 19mths old) was with her from 8.30am - 3.30, so that worked out at 35 euro per day, I supplied all food/nappies etc. 

We weren't particularly happy with the care he was getting for various reasons, he is now in a creche, we pay 210 euro per week.



I fully agree with you Summer about children of 4 being in a classroom with so many other children and only one teacher. What a pity the government haven't made good on their promise of having smaller children in classes of under 20!!!


----------



## quarterfloun (21 Oct 2005)

You could  always look after your own children............


----------



## pokerwidow (22 Oct 2005)

quarterfloun said:
			
		

> You could always look after your own children............


Work?
My 2 year old goes to a local women, who has become a great family friend, for two mornings a week.  The hours are from 9.00 to 1.45 and it costs €20 a day.  How could anyone look after 25 children at the same time.  I only have three and we have lovely multi-coloured abstract art work all over our cream walls.  The chances are that an accident is going to happen in that house.  Who cares about the cost then?


----------



## brodiebabe (22 Oct 2005)

quarterfloun said:
			
		

> You could always look after your own children............


 

It is not always possible to mind your own children if you working, in college, etc.


----------



## oysterman (22 Oct 2005)

Summer said:
			
		

> It never ceases to amaze me that when the childcare legislation was introduced it applied to all non school going children. So if your 4 year old was being minded it had to be a ratio of 8 children to 1 adult. He is still 4 and starts school in a classroom of 33+ children and there is no problem.


Pupil-teacher ratio question is a red herring in this context. Teachers are professionals so the atmosphere and activity will be very different in a classroom. Child-childminder ratios need to be way lower.


----------



## stano (16 Sep 2006)

I pay 5 euro an hour each for my two children, a 1 and a 3 year old, but they only go for 4 hours and she's so flexible it's wonderful.  She will take them at short notice and so on.
I also pay for a play school place for the 3 year old and a morning crech for the baby 3 days a week, but these are subsidize by the government as the area I live in isn't the best and they want mothers to go to work I guess.


----------



## tosullivan (17 Sep 2006)

quarterfloun said:


> You could always look after your own children............


not everybody is in the position financially to do this so negative comments like this are not helpful

I would guess €5/hr would be adequate...


----------



## Henny Penny (17 Sep 2006)

I disagree. Many people choose to work. Finance has nothing to do with it. 

I think there is a huge amount of pressure on people to work, especially when all of their peers are working. I think also there is a fear that if you get off the career ladder, you will never get back on.

Perhaps if the work of parents in the home was given the recognition it deserves, parents would not feel embarassed to be stay at home parents.


----------



## fobs (18 Sep 2006)

We pay 3.25 per hours per child in our creche with a 10% discount for the 2nd child so pay 188 for one child full-time (with meals) and the other child for after schools 5 days a week. This creche is part-funded by the southern healthboard and so is not a for-profit making business.


----------



## coleen (30 Sep 2006)

I work in a childcare centre that is in aschool for school going children. We run pre- school in the morning 18 children 3 adults. We collect school going children from their classes when school is finished  give them some food and do the home work. We have approx 18 kids in the evening again 3 adults and when home work is finished we have a fine sports hall to adjurn to for games dance and music etc. We are funded by the eocp  equal opurtunites for children programe. We charge 25 euro per week per child and all the kids love it. It is a great boost for parents to have this affordable childcare. It is only available because the wages of the 3 workers are total funded by the goverment and also because the school principle allows it to happen in the school. It is a rural school and they had spare room available 1 for pre school 1 for after school which has been decorated like a sitting room in a house, large couch telly and lots of toys. We have 18 kids betwwen 3 of us in a very large space with a fine inddoor space and I could not imangine anyone being able to look after 25 in a house setting. It must be like a zoo


----------



## RainyDay (1 Oct 2006)

Henny Penny said:


> I disagree. Many people choose to work. Finance has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I think there is a huge amount of pressure on people to work, especially when all of their peers are working. I think also there is a fear that if you get off the career ladder, you will never get back on.
> 
> Perhaps if the work of parents in the home was given the recognition it deserves, parents would not feel embarassed to be stay at home parents.


Please tell me that parents aren't making decisions about childcare based on peer pressure and/or embarrassment? Where do the interests of the child come into play?


----------



## michaelm (2 Oct 2006)

quarterfloun said:


> You could  always look after your own children............


It seems to me that many people are too quick to rule out looking after their own.  Understandably, some people must work just to make ends meet but many more choose to work to maintain their lifestyle.  It sickens me to think of the army of little kids dropped off to crèches etc. every morning with many parents convincing themselves that the kids are better off.  Double income families who choose to stay double income when their children are small are really missing out.  The kids grow up really quick, I suspect that many parents will regret their choice down the line.


----------



## babydays (2 Oct 2006)

Henny Penny said:
			
		

> I disagree. Many people chose to work. Finance has nothing to do with it


 


Many, many people HAVE to work. I gave up work this year as we now have 2 kids. Everyone's assumption is that it was cheaper (given childcare costs in the creche) for me not to work. So wrong. After childcare costs we still had a very good income. Now, on one income, we are barely scraping through. I (and husband) are really happy that I am not working (less pressure, kids more relaxed etc etc) but the financial implications are very scary. We are doing everything we can to minimise costs and are quite scarred about the gas and electricity increases coming along (oh and the mortgage increases too!). 

Many people, through no fault of their own, have to work to be able to pay for basics.


----------



## Henny Penny (3 Oct 2006)

Hi Babydays,
I'm not trying to irk anyone with my comment that many people choose to work .... but I do feel it is true. 
I don't think anyone can have it all ... if you are at home you have time with your kids, but not money ... if you are at work you have money but not time ... it's trying to get the balance right. 
I know many women who would not dream of giving up their jobs outside the home, because it affords them a certain lifestyle and independence that they want ... and I'm not judging that, I'm just questioning whether every mother or father should feel they need a job outside the home ... when they could survive on one income ... and I use the word survive ... because with one income there is little room for luxuries.
I wonder whether parents and in particular mothers feel that staying at home to mind their children is a valid choice in today's world.


----------



## Crea (3 Oct 2006)

HP - of course staying at home to mind your own kids is a valid option. There are legions of women who do this but you don't hear too much about them because all the political issues relating to children are to do with the cost of external childcare, not the cost of a family of having only 1 income. I know it's a personal choice whether to stay home or not but if there is any talk of giving more to working parents than to stay at home parents I will be storming the gates of the Dail. 
And you are so right  - you can't have it all....except if your partner is really rich!


----------



## nelly (4 Oct 2006)

well I agree you can't have it all and although I don't condone the woman with 25 children at home i think folks who decide to stay at home and take in 2 or 3 children among with their own darling. They make a few bob (although their house, car and garden will naturally take a battering) and give other parents an alternative to the creche. Hats off to them.


----------



## babydays (4 Oct 2006)

HP - I suppose there are so many rationales for working or not working and I'm wanting to say that nothing is straightforward - as you seem to accept..but I need to rant a little!!

I do agree that there's a lot of pressure on both spouses (particularly women) to work (as well as financial pressure). My mother in particular felt it was a waste of my education and profession to chuck it in (for a few years?). My husband also had a hard time getting his head around it. Luckily my colleagues and his colleagues supported it. Now my husband is in 7th heaven! At least once a week he tells me how happy he is that we made this choice!

It's funny alright that we've gone so far that it's difficult to be able to take up the most important job of looking after our kids without being seen as old-fashioned. 

I do think that our generation has a difficulty in living with less. I certainly do! At the same time the luxury of time and non-stressed kids is worth a hell of a lot. At the same time I also recognise that we are exceedingly fortunate that we can afford to be able to have me at home with us on one salary.  Yes it is a choice (time over money/clothes/eating out/cinema/theatre boo hoo!!!) but it is also a luxury that we can do that. Many, many people don't have that choice today. 


Re unofficial child minding (back on topic!) I think a couple of kids extra 2/3 in a house with kids is beneficial all round. Is the responsibility of the parents leaving them with the child-minder to acquaint themselves with the child-minders' methods and activities with the kids.


----------

