# Survey on costs of running Apt complex / rating Managing Agents



## Aptdirector (24 Aug 2009)

I am a director of a management company, and am looking for independent information on costs such as managing agent fees, cleaning costs, rubbish disposal, insurance etc. My problem is that we incur all these costs but have no benchmark to compare the cost or quality of service we get for these costs. How do we know we are getting value if we have nothing to compare our costs or quality of service to?

I'm therefore hoping to conduct a comprehensive survey to capture all these issues. I'd share the results if anyone wants to participate. Please indicate an interest by posting a reply and I'll contact you.

Thanks,

John


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## ontour (24 Aug 2009)

John,

I think that it would be very difficult to compare like with like as there are so many factors that impact the cost including location, number of units, size of development open areas, level of service/ response times.  For insurance there is only a small number of providers serving the apartment common areas market in Ireland now.  They are looking at the claims history of each development or block to do their pricing.

I think that there are two things you can do to ensure you get the best value.  The first is to specify exactly the service you require.  Ask questions of other developments as to the strategies used to keep the costs down.  For example, with lift maintenance, you will get answers like, 'we have a contract with our lift maintenace company that does not include outside hours repairs that is 60% cheaper'.  The second is to get quotes from multiple recommended service providers.


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## shesells (25 Aug 2009)

John have you joined the Apartment Owners Network? www.apartmentowners.ie It's a great group and we share this kind of information and work to improve services etc

I would be wary of trying to rate managing agents...some of the bad ones are universally bad but others it can depend on who your property administrator is so two different developments could have very different experiences with one agency.


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## Stephenw105 (18 Oct 2009)

John,

A survey of this kind is badly needed.  Apartment Owners Network provides a forum for discussion where you learn a lot but no one to date has carried out a survey of this kind.  I am a director of a management company and any comparison of costs would be extremely useful to us in protecting our owners from being overcharged.  I am happy to partake. If the survey is carefully done it should be possible to compare like with like.


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## onq (18 Oct 2009)

I'd like to voice my support for this survey, with the caveat that the results should be published and sent to the ILS, IPI, RIAI and CIF [Solicitors, Planners, Architects and Builders] together with all the planning authorities in the country.

For years Management companies where the means whereby the responsibility of looking after private apartment schemes/"gated communities" were shouldered by developers.
Several problems arose to to the lack of definition of what are termed "the common areas" in schemes [particularly internal common rooms, meeting spaces etc.].

Originally these were touted as "necessary" for establishing a good community spirit but with nobody maintaining them the result was that these got neglected and later schemes were not required to include them, yet some early schemes may still have them.

Far more important is the requirement to keep the fire safety measures maintained to their commission requirements.
This includes fire detection and alarm systems and in particular the fire doors, which seem to take the brunt of late night revellers returning home.

Anecdotal horror stories abound with tales of management company's agents whose fees are so high they end up stripping the sinking fund.
Other stories exist of management companies which have been taken over show members decide to reduce the annual contribution to the sinking fund.
Such companies will not be able to afford the 20-year replacement cost of services, including lifts, which most apartment blocks possess and depend on for their ease of access particularly for disabled or elderly occupants.


The problem is that most people aren't interested in giving of their time to administrate the company of which they are a member.
They then seek "management agents" to do their work for them, and they get fleeced.
Or they seek a short term reduction in outlay and are storing up problems for the future.
To be blunt about it, you *do* get what you pay for, and if you're going to pay a pen pusher to deal with people-problems and building-problems, you'll pay through the nose.

It would be very useful if the survey could discover what solutions work best and publish them, taking all factors into account.

Perhaps a little outside-the-box thinking might be just the ticket.

ONQ.


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## markpb (2 Nov 2009)

One of the members of the Apartment Owners Network set up a survey to gather this information. We'll be publishing a report of our findings as soon as we've had enough responses. The survey is available [broken link removed].


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