# self employed.. never paid tax... need dole



## darach (7 Nov 2011)

Ok....
business has gone down from 30k a year 2009, to 20k 2010 and looking like 16k 2011... after 10k running costs that leaves it as 20k,10k and now 6k this year.
All my savings are spent trying to keep it going and have been decimated by clients not paying on time/ bad debts etc.
I need to get on dole very soon or I will hit the wall....
What do I do?
Do the social welfare inform revenue of non declaration?


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## onq (7 Nov 2011)

You could try your community welfare officer at your local health clinic.
Ring ahead to find out what they he/she sits and go down and take a ticket and wait.
Alternatively, contact your local Money Advice and Budgeting Service office from www.mabs.ie.
I suspect you may have a difficulty availing of state support if you haven't paid tax/PRSI for three years.


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## gipimann (7 Nov 2011)

You won't qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit as a self-employed person, so you can only apply for Jobseeker's Allowance, which is means-tested.   Entitlement will depend on whether you're still working (it sounds as if you are), your availablity for full-time work, and any savings, investments, other income or property you may have.

Supplementary Welfare Allowance is also a means-tested payment, and if you're working 30 hrs per week or more, regardless of earnings, then you won't qualify.


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## onq (7 Nov 2011)

You *may* get job seekers benefit as a self-employed person -  if you have paid PRSI you may be entitled to it.

Other issues may prevent your getting it, depending on your current assets and debts.


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## donee (8 Nov 2011)

im self employed and in 2005/06 tax year i paid over €54k in tax. in 07 business had fallen off a cliff and we got a vat audit in Nov 07, in jan 08 we got a letter stating that we had no further liability, in Sept 08 after being asessed for JSA we were told we qualified for nothing, now i realise everybodies case is different so good luck to you if you get it


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## Complainer (8 Nov 2011)

I think the OP's concern is not so much around eligibility for JSA. It seems that his concern is outlined in the thread title 'never paid tax'. I don't know if your tax compliance (or non-compliance) is considered when applying for welfare. If there has been active tax evasion, it does seem more than a bit iffy that the OP would expect the State to support him when times go bad.


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## onq (8 Nov 2011)

There are several exclusions to getting Jobseekers Allowance -

- A second home
- A car on the mortgage
- More than €20K in savings
- Didn't pay PRSI (separate issue to VAT or Tax returns per se)

Many people who did well in the Tiger years may now be excluded due to the first criterion alone.
Their difficulty may be compounded because of the second house being in negative equity and no market for it.
I don't think the exclusions were framed with the current market in mind - they assume that you could sell at a profit.
However I was referring to Jobseekers Benefit, which isn't means tested like the Jobseekers Allowance, which is means tested.


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## onq (8 Nov 2011)

Complainer said:


> I think the OP's concern is not so much around eligibility for JSA. It seems that his concern is outlined in the thread title 'never paid tax'. I don't know if your tax compliance (or non-compliance) is considered when applying for welfare. If there has been active tax evasion, it does seem more than a bit iffy that the OP would expect the State to support him when times go bad.



Yeah I noticed that too, but when you're down on your luck, you need encouragement - that's not to condone a strategy of non-payment of tax never mind PRSI.


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## gipimann (8 Nov 2011)

Self-employed persons pay class S PRSI contributions.   
PRSI class S is not a qualifying class for Jobseeker's Benefit.

Having a second home, or more than €20k in savings, or a car on a mortgage does not exclude someone from getting Jobseeker's Allowance.

A second property will be assessed based on its capital value (value - outstanding mortgage).  Many properties purchased in recent years are in negative equity and therefore there are no means assessed.

The first €20,000 of savings is disregarded and there's a scale of means assessed for amounts over that.  For example, savings of €55,000 would be assessed as €90 pw means which is approx half of the single rate of Jobseeker's Allowance at 2011 rates.

Purchasing a car by re-mortgaging the family home may be a factor if a person is applying for Mortgage Interest Supplement (where only the amount of mortgage used to purchase or repair the home can be considered), but it's not assessed for Jobseeker's.

Dept of Social Protection may investigate why PRSI contributions have not been paid during the period of self-employment, just as they would if an employee's PRSI had not been paid by his/her employer.   Tax is a matter for the Revenue Commissioners and not Dept of Social Protection.


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## onq (8 Nov 2011)

Happy to stand corrected on the €20K limit gipimann - I may have taken it up wrongly.


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## Ildánach (10 Nov 2011)

Tax compliance (or otherwise) is not a factor that is taken into account when determining entitlement to Jobseekers Allowance.  

However, the two departments do share information, and it may be that the means test assessment for Jobseekers Allowance may end up bringing the failure to pay tax to the attention of the Revenue.  As your tax assessment is relevant to the means assessment, it is fairly likely that this will come to light.

It does sound however that your tax liability for the past few years is minimal, if anything at all.  Depending on prudent use of allowances and maximising your tax credits, you may find that you owe less tax than you think.  Of course, failing to submit a declaration is itself a problem, but if you go to the Revenue first with the information, you can perhaps sort the problem and come to a favourable settlement rather than sitting waiting for it to find you, which can often be the more stressful option.


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