# Don't bother trying to pay your household charge yet - the site isn't work properly



## Brendan Burgess

You can now pay the charge on www.householdcharge.ie 

Being a responsible citizen, I decided to pay mine online. But it's very badly designed and, isn't allowing me to do so. 

Here are my comments 

1) It marks the mobile phone field as a required field. Does that mean that people who don't have mobile phones don't have to pay the charge? 

I left it empty and it did not cause a problem. 

2) It does something called an "address search result". 



> We have matched the address you entered to the following address. If  this is your correct address please click "Use Address". If this is not  your correct address please click "Search Again" or click on "Use  Entered” in Option 2 below.


Have they checked it against my PPS number? They should make this clear. 

3) Why do they need a security captcha. The one I got seemed very difficult to read 
tioneybr l'austerità

How many people know how to do an à ? I had to search around for it? 

4) 


> *There was an issue processing your request.            *
> 
> To return to the homepage of the Household charge System please click  here
> To try again please click                try again



5) If the problem is with the captcha, they should say this. 

I have now got this message 7 times. 

Most of the captchas are very difficult to read.
I tried the audio captcha twice and that was even more difficult. 

6) They should provide a phone number on this page if people are having problems.

7) I found the phone number, but I have now been holding on for 8 minutes and no reply.


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## Brendan Burgess

After 10 minutes holding, and on at least the 10th attempt, they answered the phone just as I successfully registered. 

Note: You will need these details to access your account again. Please keep them safe.


*First Name:                   *                                                              Brendan                                            
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




*Last Name:                   *                                                              Burgess                                            
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*Account Reference Code:                   * 




                             	You have completed registration successfully.
	Your Account Reference Code will now be sent to your email address.
	NOTE: If you are paying by Direct Debit you will need to *verify your email address.*
	Please read the email for further instructions.


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## Brendan Burgess

The woman answering the phone told me that  so many people are paying today, that the system is slow.

And they have asked the IT dept to fix the Captcha.

I suggested that they switch it off until it works.

Brendan


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## DB74

I'm having the same problems Brendan

I was on hold for 14 mins but the girl was no help and was pawning me off with rubbish reasons as to why it wasn't working (site down and/or captcha problems)

When I click on forgot password (in case that was my issue) the site tells me I am not registered even though I have received a "registration successful" email from them

I agree that the Capthca phrases are very difficult to read


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## DB74

Can you log in to the site now Brendan?


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## Protocol

RTE report that 2100 have registered so far.

To meet the 31st March deadline, and assuming 1.5m register online (which won't happen), 16,000+ need to register each day.

If the website can't cope so far, how will it cope with more demands?


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## Protocol

I registered and paid yesterday, Tue 3rd Jan 2011.

It did an address search, and found my house in its database.  I am interested in that, as it means they already have some sort of database.

I spelt my address "36 xxxx xxxx", but it matched me with "36 xxxxxxxx", with no spacing.

In fairness, both versions make sense, with or without spaces.


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## Brendan Burgess

DB74 said:


> Can you log in to the site now Brendan?



I have decided not to bother until they solve the problems.

The manager did ring me back and told me that they have terrible problems with the captcha.

He could not tell me the purpose of it.  

Brendan


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## Conshine

Dont suppose its designed by the same crowd that did the ryanair site?


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## DB74

I was able to log in eventually and pay the charge


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## Ceist Beag

Protocol said:


> RTE report that 2100 have registered so far.
> 
> To meet the 31st March deadline, and assuming 1.5m register online (which won't happen), 16,000+ need to register each day.
> 
> If the website can't cope so far, how will it cope with more demands?



That's pretty embarrassing if a site can't cope with 2100 users in a day! I think I'll wait until they get a handle on the teething issues before I go near it.


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## gipimann

Are they matching addresses with the Voters Register and/or the database from ESB Networks as was indicated in discussions when the charge was introduced?


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## gipimann

OK, I just registered.

Got through it without much difficulty, but I wasn't able to leave the mobile phone number field blank - unlike Brendan's experience earlier.

Logged in again, and tried to pay.  Got a server error message, so can't make a payment at the moment!


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## thedarkone

gipimann said:


> Are they matching addresses with the Voters Register and/or the database from ESB Networks as was indicated in discussions when the charge was introduced?



My guess is not from the latter (anyway probably prohibited under Data Protection legislation) on the basis that the ESB Networks has my townland (otherwise unused) and the match did not include said townland.

Once I got past the email page, it was plain sailing including payment.


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## gipimann

I must have hit a temporary error - I logged out, logged in again and was able to make the payment.


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## Mrmr

I managed to register, though they didn't like my address and I had to confirm it. 
Then they didn't like a payment by Laser and kept telling me i was an invalid Credit card number. I refreshed and recommitted to laser but it didn't work.
Finally managed to just setup a Direct debit mandate although that isn't what I wanted to achieve.

Dreadful website.


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## staff

I had no problem registering although the captcha was a bit difficult to read and it was just by chance that I got it correct.   

They dont seem to want my money mind you - anybody else have any problem with payment.


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## gipimann

staff,
Have you completed the section where you tell the site what type of water scheme you use and declare whether you're exempt or not?  Took me a while to work out that process and couldn't pay until I had done it.

If I recall, when your account details are displayed, there's a "NEXT" button at the bottom of the page.

The information in the "self-declaration" page states that the list of unfinished estates is available in the FAQs - however when you go to look for them, there's a list of phone numbers only.


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## staff

Hi Gipimann,

I did try the NEXT button but it wouldn't accept it - so I just came out of it and went back in and it was then happy enough to take my money.  Seems to be just some initial starting up problems.

Staff


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## Jethro

I managed to register, according to a confirmation email I received (although the registration process froze when I clicked 'create account'). Can't login to my account though, despite numerous attempts. It just freezes.

I was also surprised at how difficult the captcha words were. When I tried the audio version I had to laugh it was so unintelligible.

Considering we are all pretty annoyed at having to pay this in the first place I am amazed at the problems they are having with the site already. It's the last thing they want when they are asking people to go to the trouble of registering and paying.

Anyhow, I'm sure I can now look forward to lots and lots of reminders to pay, from a flawed but zealous system.


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## x4winnie

I've just made 3 attempts, but got stuck at the final fence each time, Captcha very difficult. An issue it said, unable to register my account. How do you do a fada, a letter A with a dash on top, think this could be the cause of my issue. So I didn't get to pay my dues yet.


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## RichInSpirit

I heard on Rte radio this morning that you can call into the local authority offices and pay there . I might do it that way .


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## Protocol

Three choices:

Online = 100 euro

By post using cheque = 100 euro

In person = 110 euro

They don't want queues of people in every town hall, so 10 extra charge.


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## Kerak

Captcha very difficult, have to agree, took maybe 12 attempts to get one I could read.

but once that was passed it was ok to pay by laser.


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## MeathCommute

Well I am fully registered and paid up. Now, it's time to HAMMER my local council offices for EVERY thing that I find wrong in my town.


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## serotoninsid

MeathCommute said:


> Well I am fully registered and paid up. Now, it's time to HAMMER my local council offices for EVERY thing that I find wrong in my town.


Good luck with that - they don't give a monkeys.  I'm still waiting for answers to questions put to my local planning office back in April.  I followed up again in November - and I'm still waiting.


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## ajapale

First two attempts just got to email. 4:00pm
Third attempt got to address (kicked out) 5:00pm
Fourth attmept just got to email.6:00pm
Fifth attempt got to complete transaction (7:30pm) but:



> The payment was *successful* but there was a technical problem communicating with the Household Charge system.
> 
> Please contact the support team on 1890357357 with the payment code to get the status of the payment updated.


. But the call centre only operates 9-5 monday to friday. The should state the opening hours on the page.

The captcha was very weird it contained the pipe symbol "¦" I havent seen one of those since I wrote MS DOS scripts back in the late 80's! and a "3" where you would expect an "E"!


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## billybound

Protocol said:


> Three choices:
> 
> Online = 100 euro
> 
> By post using cheque = 100 euro
> 
> In person = 110 euro
> 
> They don't want queues of people in every town hall, so 10 extra charge.


An extra 10 euros for people without a pc or cheque book then. Thats a nice rounded off figure of 10 euros, could it not be 9.99.


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## so-crates

Registered and paid though as with others the captcha nearly defeated me and I wasn't happy about the mandatory mobile number.


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## MargeSimpson

Mandatory mobile phone number??? Don't see why they would need this! Just more data collection!
They can contact me by post considering they have my address


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## Brendan Burgess

Lads

I gave great advice in the heading "Don't bother trying to pay yet" 

It looks as if you all want a technological challenge? 

As far as I am concerned, I can wait until they get it working properly.

I got through the first stage, but if they are double charging people, it will be very difficult to get the money back. So I am not paying, yet.

Brendan


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## so-crates

Brendan Burgess said:


> Lads
> 
> I gave great advice in the heading "Don't bother trying to pay yet"
> 
> It looks as if you all want a technological challenge?
> 
> As far as I am concerned, I can wait until they get it working properly.
> 
> I got through the first stage, but if they are double charging people, it will be very difficult to get the money back. So I am not paying, yet.
> 
> Brendan



Had already done it by the time you put this up


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## dewdrop

As a rather ignorant computer user i eventually got the payment made. My initial problems were that I did not read the screen carefully.


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## Fiskar

Cannot see what the rush to pay this is for, sad to see people wanting to hand over money in any form to this government.
It is only playing into their hands to see how glad homeowners are to pay up a 100€ tax so quickly. Would there be a rush to pay if it were 500€ as it may well be in a short while? Paying this so quickly will only serve to have the charge increased year on year.


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## ajapale

Brendan Burgess said:


> Lads, "Don't bother trying to pay yet"
> 
> It looks as if you all want a technological challenge?
> 
> Brendan



Yes, I must admit I was up for the technological challenge.

How will the system cope with an expected surge on the last few days of March?

I heard the LG Services today on MI.

He didnt deal with the weird/difficult captchas or the fact that the call centre only operates 9-5 M-F and that this fact does not appear in the website beside the call centre number.


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## Purple

I signed up and paid on Tuesday. No problems with any of it other than reading the first Captcha they offered me so I pressed the little button below it and they offered me one I could read.


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## mandelbrot

Fiskar said:


> Cannot see what the rush to pay this is for, sad to see people wanting to hand over money in any form to this government.
> It is only playing into their hands to see how glad homeowners are to pay up a 100€ tax so quickly. Would there be a rush to pay if it were 500€ as it may well be in a short while? Paying this so quickly will only serve to have the charge increased year on year.


 
There is no logic to that statement at all. By that reasoning no-one would ever pay any bill / tax on time, to forestall price / tax increases... 

I actually agree with you about not seeing what people's hurry to pay is, as I'd prefer to hang onto my €100 as long as possible (unless I expected rampant inflation!).


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## Brendan Burgess

Fiskar said:


> It is only playing into their hands to see how glad homeowners are to pay up a 100€ tax so quickly. .



Hi Fiskar

No one likes taxes of any type, but most of us realise that they are necessary.

A property tax is a great idea and it is important to show that the vast majority understand this and support it. 

Brendan


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## z107

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Fiskar
> 
> No one likes taxes of any type, but most of us realise that they are necessary.
> 
> A property tax is a great idea and it is important to show that the vast majority understand this and support it.
> 
> Brendan



The vast majority understand and support the tax? Do they? Do you have a source to back that up?
AAM seems to be the only forum I've read where people are so eager to hand over their hard earned money.

There are multiple reasons why people are not supporting this tax.


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## serotoninsid

Brendan Burgess said:


> A property tax is a great idea and it is important to show that the vast majority understand this and support it.


Absolutely - it is - provided that the capital raised converts into tangible public services.  Other states do this effectively.  However, we (IRL) seem to have a problem when it comes to 'value for money'....


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## Bronte

Why people on a money website would pay this charge 3 months early is beyond me.  The money should be left on deposit until the last moment.


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## serotoninsid

Bronte said:


> Why people on a money website would pay this charge 3 months early is beyond me.  The money should be left on deposit until the last moment.


Agree in principal - but €100 on deposit for 3 months - DIRT ?

I'm not even going to compute it....other than to say, if people lead busy lives (which the vast majority of us do), better to forego the interest and make sure its paid on time rather then get caught up on the savage interest penalties that they have in place.


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## Bronte

serotoninsid said:


> Agree in principal - but €100 on deposit for 3 months - DIRT ?


 
What about when the charge rises to 1000?


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## so-crates

Speculative Bronte. We don't know what it will be, we do know what it is and the penalty far outweighs any miniscule advantage to hanging onto €100 for three months. Even if it went to €1000 the interest it would attract in 3 months would be paltry


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## z107

A more obvious reason for paying later is to see how this pans out.

Things may well change if there is enough public opposition to this unfair tax.


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## MeathCommute

Bronte said:


> What about when the charge rises to 1000?


 
It will probably rise to 1000 if you don't pay it


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## STEINER

After several failed attempts I managed to register my property on the website.  That captcha is a pain and proved very hard to make out.

I won't be paying the €100 until 31st March,  I don't pay any bill 12 weeks in advance.


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## ClubMan

I registered earlier today and that went smoothly enough. I then tried to set up my direct debit details but it told me:



> "The account details you provided did not pass our strict validation
> procedures. This may be because you made a data entry error and you can try
> again by selecting the *Previous* button.
> 
> However it may also be because your account is unsuitable for Direct Debit
> payments or that the account requires mutliple signaturaries."


even thought it's a regular current account, I definitely entered the details correctly, I answered "yes" to the four additional questions on the page, it has a bunch of _DDs/SOs _already set up and in my sole name so multiple signaturaries (sic.) are not required.

This evening when I tried to see again if I could set up the _DD _I keep getting this when I try to login:



> *There was an issue processing your request.            *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To return to the homepage of the Household charge System please click  here


Update: oh - I guess I must've been getting entering _CAPTCHA _stuff incorrectly. They can be difficult to work out.

Bit of a mess alright... 



STEINER said:


> I won't be paying the €100 until 31st March,  I don't pay any bill 12 weeks in advance.


Surely paying by quarterly _DD _would be a better idea so as it allows you to pay 25% in advance and 75% in arrears? Although the specific timing of the quarterly _DD _payments does not seem to be clarified anywhere - I'd assume end of March, June, September and December?

Update 2: oh - _DD _dates clarified here and they are not quarterly.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/household_charge.html#ld1a9a



> 13 March 2012
> 14 May 2012
> 13 July 2012
> 10 September 2012


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## anby

Well, like a good citizen I logged on today to pay it. Put in all the info they ask for, site was very slow. Then at the end they tell you that there is a problem and they send you all the way back to the start!!! I suppose it IS an Irish webite, so you don't really expect any better (ah, shure, it'll be fine). So, to hell with all that, I'll wait until the legal letters start arriving, then phone them and tell them I tried to pay but couldn't and maybe they could send someone round to collect the dough........


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## greentree

anby said:


> Well, like a good citizen I logged on today to pay it. Put in all the info they ask for, site was very slow. Then at the end they tell you that there is a problem and they send you all the way back to the start!!! I suppose it IS an Irish webite, so you don't really expect any better (ah, shure, it'll be fine). So, to hell with all that, I'll wait until the legal letters start arriving, then phone them and tell them I tried to pay but couldn't and maybe they could send someone round to collect the dough........



I wonder what the legal position on that is? Especially if you had a printed/dated screenshot of the error.


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## pconsidine

I went to pay my €100 on-line today. However, the website demanded personal information such as my phone number and PPN. Nothing in the enabling legislation requires that I provide this information. This is a PROPERTY tax, attaching to residential property. It is NOT a PERSONAL tax.
As an experiment I entered a fictitious PPN number. The site demanded I insert my correct number. It is obvious that there is a connection to the PPN database embedded in this site. How bloody dare they!
I would strongly advise against paying the charge through this site until they remove these objectionable questions.
I will now be paying my €100 by cheque addressed to "Household Charge", P.O. Box 12168, Dublin 1. This cheque will be accompanied by the address of my residence and demand for a receipt. They are legally entitled to nothing else. Nada. Zilch.

Anyone for a Tea Party?

P. Considine.


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## Fiskar

mandelbrot said:


> There is no logic to that statement at all. By that reasoning no-one would ever pay any bill / tax on time, to forestall price / tax increases...
> 
> I actually agree with you about not seeing what people's hurry to pay is, as I'd prefer to hang onto my €100 as long as possible (unless I expected rampant inflation!).


 
Why is it to be paid within 3 months? is it a ruse to get all properties on a register and to bring in a second budget in June in order to get a second 100€.

Is the register going to be scrutinised in advance of the next budget in order to maximise the return from next years round of increases?

Don't get me wrong, I pay the NPPR and other related taxes, but what is knocking me since the start of the year are the increases in all sectors of the economy that are way in excess of the rate of inflation and yet no one is kicking up a fuss about it.
I did raise the NPPR and "Household charge" with my TD last tuesday and asked him to explain the difference. He told me there is none.


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## serotoninsid

pconsidine said:


> Anyone for a Tea Party?


Tea Party, a party directly elected with a mandate for legislative change and reform in all areas...(sorry, won't go any further off thread topic).


Tried again just now - like everyone else, can't get it sorted.


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## Berni

pconsidine said:


> Nothing in the enabling legislation requires that I provide this information


Well section 11b covers the PPSN, but the phone number seems to be their own initiative.


> (_b_) a local authority shall, at such intervals as the Revenue  Commissioners may specify, provide the Revenue Commissioners with such  information obtained by the local authority pursuant to this Act,  including tax reference numbers, as the Revenue Commissioners may  reasonably require for the purpose of enabling them to perform their  functions under a specified enactment
> ...
> “tax reference number” means— (a) in relation to an individual, that individual’s personal public service number (within the meaning of section 262 of the Act of 2005),





pconsidine said:


> As an experiment I entered a fictitious PPN number. The site demanded I insert my correct number. It is obvious that there is a connection to the PPN database embedded in this site. How bloody dare they!



Or your random check character was wrong and didn't pass validation.


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## Fiskar

Before you rush into paying this charge online you may want to review some of the issues presented in this blog

http://obriend.info/2012/01/04/household-chargea-data-protection-kerfuffle-in-the-making/

If the administrator deems it inappropriate then by all means please remove it.


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## paddyd

while I intend to pay the charge at some stage in the next 3 month, I find it amusing that in order for there to be full compliace, 17.7k households need to register every single day for 90 days in a row.

This isn't the pay-and-file self-assessment deadline
It isn't the 2nd home charge

They only affected a smaller % of the population. They haven't to my mind every collected a charge like this before, completely on the expectation of everyone being compliant.

What are they up to so far? Even allowing for the wave of people who always pay bills and taxes promptly, they've barely reached 1/3 of the daily level they need to be at, and they advertise the heck out of it - they are depending on it garthering momentem of its own.

Mass non-compliance on the cards, if for example they don't reach perhaps 250,000 by the end of the month? Will the legal charges & administration to chase non-compliance out-weight the tax taken


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## pconsidine

To Berni:

And how will having my PPSN specifically enable the government or its emanations perform its functions in relation to a property tax?

I''m all ears. (When you answer, pretend you're arguing the Revenue Commissioner's case in responce to my judicial review before the High Court)

Until I hear a good argument to the contrary I hold to my contention that there is no legislative authority to allow these people demand this information.

P. Considine


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## pconsidine

To sahd:

No, it won't accept a random number of the sort you used as an example. I tried twice with a fictitious number containing the appropriate number of digits followed by a letter (Actually, my real PPNS with three numbers altered.


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## Berni

Not being an officer of the Revenue, their inner workings are a mystery to me 
However, I would expect that the opening line of the legislation holds a clue as to why your ppsn is required: 





> AN ACT TO REQUIRE THE OWNERS OF CERTAIN RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES TO PAY AN ANNUAL HOUSEHOLD CHARGE



Also, the ppsn sahd provided isn't random, it's valid. Changing a couple of digits of your own would break the checksum.


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## pugwall

I registered and paid earlier with no issues. I found the instructions to be clear and the process took less than 3 minutes to complete. I don't know what the fuss is about!


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## Brendan Burgess

Folks

This thread is about paying the property tax. 

There are plenty of other threads about not paying it

I have had to delete off topic posts.

Please stay on topic.

brendan


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## pconsidine

Under the Interpretation Act the Long Title has no interpretatory status in relation to guiding the Court at to the rights and liabilities conveyed under legislation.

Unless, of course, there is an express provision in the enabling legislation making the owner personally liable to pay this tax.

In any case, there is no discernable reason as to why provision of a PPSN would be reasonably necessary to enable the Revenue Commissioners to process this tax. Remember, this information would be provided along with the payment and not where a home-owner has defaulted.

This is a prying exercise to collect information for the purposes of future recovery of taxes.


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## pconsidine

To Pugwall:

The fuss will be next year - or in a few years time when you have retired and the tax is the equivalent of €1,000. They will have your PPSN and will be able to extract it directly from your IR€1,000,000 pw (approx D€15) pension if you haven't paid by the due date.


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## horusd

I signed up for DD yesterday no hitches. I'm a bit surprised that people are paying it outright. I opted for the DD on the basis that inflation (if that still exists) will reduce it, and I'll save 20 cents on interest! Miserable sod that I am. Funny tho, the DD doesn't kick until March? Here's the schedule for anyone interested:

13/03/2012
14/05/2012
13/07/2012
10/09/2012


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## ClubMan

pugwall said:


> I registered and paid earlier with no issues. I found the instructions to be clear and the process took less than 3 minutes to complete. I don't know what the fuss is about!


Registration worked fine for me but I was unable to set up _DD _payment even after entering all details correctly and using an account that already supports many _DDs/SOs_. That's what my fuss is about anyway.


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## staff

I paid my household charge two days ago or so I thought but no money has been charged yet - has anyone else had this problem. I paid it outright by Visa but it has not shown up. Are they just slow to deduct it?


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## Bronte

so-crates said:


> Speculative Bronte. We don't know what it will be, we do know what it is and the penalty far outweighs any miniscule advantage to hanging onto €100 for three months. Even if it went to €1000 the interest it would attract in 3 months would be paltry


 
I guarantee you the charge will rise. There is probably going to be an emergency budget this year for a starter. Once they have everybody registered that will set the ball rolling. 

It is far preferable to have payments in my deposit account rather than paying all bills 3 months in advance, I don't know anybody who does that other then apparently loads of people on AAM. Do you all regularly pay your bills 3 months or more in advance?

In relation to the PPSN number, in the future when revenue start collecting the late payment charges it will be easy for them to see who has or hasn't paid with the PPSN number. And revenue will not be bothering to do this for a few years when the penalties will be massive. In addition on death no doubt there will be a rule that before an estate is disposed of that this charge has been paid, cross check with the PPSN number and hey presto tax windfall for revenue. All very good reasons to pay the tax. 

In relation to the actual computer system for paying, no doubt towards the end of March the system will collapse and the deadline for payment will be pushed out.


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## ClubMan

sahd said:


> If you are interested - there is a formula for checking valid pps numbers -
> 
> "
> In reverse order, each digit is multiplied by a weight, 2, 3, and so  on until the first digit is multiplied by 8. Add up each result. Divide  by 23 and the remainder (modulus 23) will indicate the character  position on the alphabet.
> Thus the PPS number 1234567 will be calculated as the sum of 7*2,  6*3, 5*4, 4*5, 3*6, 2*7 and 1*8. This 112 when divided by 23 leaves a  remainder of 20. The twentieth letter of the English alphabet is 'T'.  The correct PPS number is therefore 1234567T. Where the remainder is  zero, the check letter is W"


Interesting - well, at least to a geek like me! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Public_Service_Number#Check_Character

I see that expansion of the _PPSN _numbering system is also planned for 2013:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Public_Service_Number#Expansion

(Apologies if this is off topic...)


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## Bronte

Very interesting about how to create PPSN numbers.  Why on earth are people putting false one's when they make the household charge payment?


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## callybags

Bronte said:


> Very interesting about how to create PPSN numbers. Why on earth are people putting false one's when they make the household charge payment?


 
Paranoia.


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## ClubMan

_pconsidine _seems to be the only one here who tried to put in a fake _PPSN _and just did so as a test rather than based on any obvious paranoia...

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1231998&postcount=52


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## callybags

ClubMan said:


> _pconsidine _seems to be the only one here who tried to put in a fake _PPSN _and just did so as a test rather than based on any obvious paranoia...
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1231998&postcount=52


 
This post 





> To Pugwall:
> 
> The fuss will be next year - or in a few years time when you have retired and the tax is the equivalent of €1,000. They will have your PPSN and will be able to extract it directly from your IR€1,000,000 pw (approx D€15) pension if you haven't paid by the due date.


 
sounds like paranoia to me.


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## Bronte

Another interesting thing on the official website is it says you are liable for 12 years.  Does this mean that if you don't pay for say 30 years they write off the first 18 and you pay for the last 12?


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## so-crates

Bronte said:


> It is far preferable to have payments in my deposit account rather than paying all bills 3 months in advance, I don't know anybody who does that other then apparently loads of people on AAM. Do you all regularly pay your bills 3 months or more in advance?


I think this is probably a difference of interpretation. As I read it the charge is due now and there is a grace period of three months to pay it. As a rule I pay when the bill arrives I don't wait for the last minute as I am liable to and have in the past forgotten bills. Not likely with this one but easier to be consistent 



Bronte said:


> In relation to the PPSN number, in the future when revenue start collecting the late payment charges it will be easy for them to see who has or hasn't paid with the PPSN number. And revenue will not be bothering to do this for a few years when the penalties will be massive. In addition on death no doubt there will be a rule that before an estate is disposed of that this charge has been paid, cross check with the PPSN number and hey presto tax windfall for revenue. All very good reasons to pay the tax.


 
But there are far more PPSNs issued then there are people liable to pay this tax.



Bronte said:


> In relation to the actual computer system for paying, no doubt towards the end of March the system will collapse and the deadline for payment will be pushed out.



Woukdn't surprise me, it is a very short lead time for registering the numbers they are looking for, especially if registration continues to be as flaky.


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## Palerider

Those paying by d/d should be aware that their Bank will charge a fee for setting up the direct debit...


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## ClubMan

Palerider said:


> Those paying by d/d should be aware that their Bank will charge a fee for setting up the direct debit...


Not necessarily - depends on the fee structure that applies to your account. I have certainly never paid for _DD/SO _setups. See here for example or your own bank's schedule of fees booklet for your account:

http://compare.nca.ie/CurrentAccount


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## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> Registration worked fine for me but I was unable to set up _DD _payment even after entering all details correctly and using an account that already supports many _DDs/SOs_. That's what my fuss is about anyway.


They called me this evening to say that there was a bug in their system whereby it was not accepting some or all _PTSB _account details for DD purposes. They have fixed it now.


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## AlbacoreA

Probably outsourced.


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## ClubMan

Thought it was the _Local Government Computer Services Board _who developed the system?


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## PaddyBloggit

Why are people using fake PPS numbers on the site?


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## rameire

they arent fake pps numbers, they are other peoples pps numbers.


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## ang1170

rameire said:


> they arent fake pps numbers, they are other peoples pps numbers.


 
I pity the poor person with PPS number 1234567T, then.....


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## ang1170

PaddyBloggit said:


> Why are people using fake PPS numbers on the site?


 
Because it's impossible to pay without specifying a PPS number. If you don't want to give your own for whatever reason, you have to make one up.


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## mcloving

The site isn't the most secure I have used imho. It is very easy to enter other peoples adresses for instance. If you are using the above PPS number then you can't be traced. 
It really is comical that this is the best they can do.


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## rameire

mcloving said:


> you can't be traced.
> .


they know your property address!
do you vote by any chance
if so, the register of electors.
land registry.


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## mcloving

rameire said:


> they know your property address!
> do you vote by any chance
> if so, the register of electors.
> land registry.


 
you can still enter incorrect info and it accepts it. 

It just not well designed, its open for corruption.


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## PaddyBloggit

But why use a 'false' pps number?

If somebody is going to the trouble of paying the €100 surely they want the payment credited to them and not the person to whom the pps number is attached?

Will somebody here pay mine if I give them my pps number?


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## STEINER

paddybloggit said:


> but why use a 'false' pps number?
> 
> If somebody is going to the trouble of paying the €100 surely they want the payment credited to them and not the person to whom the pps number is attached?



+1


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## PaddyBloggit

But it is a tax payable by the person responsible for it!

Bottom line ... are we required to give a pps number when paying?

If we are ... why?

And if people give false info on site does it not constitute fraud?


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## ajapale

PaddyBloggit said:


> Bottom line ... are we required to give a pps number when paying? If we are ... why?



I reckon its an IT database thing. They are trying to use PPS number as a unique identifier. In rural ireland its not uncommon to have several Michael Murphys living in the same small townland.


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## Time

> And if people give false info on site does it not constitute fraud?


Not fraud at all.


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## ang1170

PaddyBloggit said:


> And if people give false info on site does it not constitute fraud?


 
A pretty odd fraud to give rather than obtain cash, if so......


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## ajapale

I think that giving a false pps number would be closer to a "false declaration" than to "fraud".


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## Time

Is there an actual requirement in law to supply a PPS when paying it?


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## Ceist Beag

Not according to the Household Charge website Time - see [broken link removed] where it makes no mention of PPS and only states that a receipt will be proof of payment. As ajapale said it's probably more to do with identifying the house in question in the case where multiple matches exist in a town (there are plenty of instances of this where I live as we often get post intended for a woman with the same name as Mrs Beag who lives only 4 doors down from us - no house numbers!). So if you're happy that you won't be confused with anyone else then I very much doubt you need to provide your own PPS number. It will be interesting tho to see if there will be much confusion at the end of March when the attempt is made to process the registrations made with the false PPS number.


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## rameire

id laugh if the reason why the pps was taken, is so that the individual could have extra tax credits. 1234567T would be minted.


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## Time

Lol! :d


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## scallywag

I note that some people are having trouble with the captchas.

There are two words which you have to type: one of them is the true test, the other is actually using you to help convert scanned text into digital form. In other words, they get you to type in one word and they check it against the graphical image; then for the second graphical image, you are actually typing in text for e.g. some piece of a scanned book which could not be translated into digital form reliably. The second word is a sort of crowdsourcing.

You obviously have to get the test word right, but for the other word it doesn't matter what you type. I tested this and I found that for me the *second *word was the true test; for the first word I typed in some rubbish and I still got through.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded, but try to just get the second word right and see what happens.


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## Olympian

Trying to register a new account today. Keep getting a "there was an issue processing your account" message. Tried about 10 times.

What a joke.


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## Padraigb

Olympian said:


> Trying to register a new account today. Keep getting a "there was an issue processing your account" message. Tried about 10 times.
> 
> What a joke.


The system went down yesterday evening. I have been promised that I will be advised by email when it is up again.


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## Padraigb

Padraigb said:


> The system went down yesterday evening. I have been promised that I will be advised by email when it is up again.


No email advice before the end of working hours. Logged on in the wee small hours (note the time of this post) and everything worked. 

[The captchas are a PITA: very difficult to read. I did a couple of refreshes before I got one I could decipher.]


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## Brendan Burgess

They system seems to be working now as I point out in this thread.


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