# Parents pension fund



## ankles (5 Nov 2007)

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice on behalf of my parents. They started a pension fund 19 years ago. This is now loosing money; the company in question continues to write to them asking them to up their contributions. 

My mother is very upset about this, and feels she is not getting a fair deal, if they were to cash it in now they would loose money. 19 years ago someone came to the house and sold them the package, told them it would be a managed fund. From what I could see this has been loosing money for several years, so I don't think this is being managed very well. 

I have a suspicion that there is something else going on here, there are details in the brochures that when the pension enters stage 3 (19 - 30 years) that if it drops by X% that the company do not have to pay out.

I'm a bit worried that they are going to lose out on this money. 19 years ago they were not very well up on all this.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2007)

What sort of pension fund is this? 
Who is it with?
What funds/assets is it invested in?
What charges apply (including any that ate up contributions early on)?
Is there any mention of "initial units" anywhere in the documentation?
How much have they contributed to date and what is the current encashment value of the policy?
What ages are they and when are they planning to draw down the pension benefits?

Are you sure that it's a pension and not some sort of combined life assurance and saving fund?


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## ankles (5 Nov 2007)

Clubman,

I don't have all these details at the moment, the fund is with Irish life, I'm not sure what sort of a fund it is, but it could possibly be a conbined life assurance and saving fund.

I'll get back to you as soon as I can with the details.


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## oysterman (6 Nov 2007)

It doesn't sound like a pension product at all but rather some sort of whole of life savings/assurance policy. A lot of these are really poor products from the point of view of the consumer. Do get back with more details.


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## MMilken (6 Nov 2007)

It sounds like what is called a flexi-plan - basically a combination of a term life insurance policy with a savings policy, these plans often see dramatic increases in cost in later years.

The plans may not be so bad - the main problem (in my view) is that they were sold by people who did not understand them and as a result the people buying them also did not understand them.

Look out for the words 'Flexi' or 'Reviewable' in the policy documents - if so then it is this 'dreaded' type of policy.


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## ClubMan (6 Nov 2007)

Assuming that it is such a plan then why on earth did they ever assume that it was a pension plan!? I suppose - depending the specific details of the case - there's a (slim?) chance that they have grounds for a misselling case here or would the timeframe be beyond the remit of the likes of the [broken link removed], [broken link removed] etc.?


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## MMilken (6 Nov 2007)

I have yet to see someone win a case on this type of policy - basically because they were not mis-sold (in the cases I have seen) more that they were sold without being understood by buyer and seller.


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## ankles (11 Nov 2007)

What sort of pension fund is this?
From what I can tell, it seems to be a Lifesaver plan (there is  a pension attached to this) 

Who is it with?
Irish Life

What funds/assets is it invested in?
Exempt Managed Fund (series 3)

What charges apply (including any that ate up contributions early on)?
Fund Management Charge of .75%

Is there any mention of "initial units" anywhere in the documentation?
I don't see anything about initial units.

How much have they contributed to date and what is the current encashment value of the policy?
As of Sept 2004(latest statement I can see) contributions were €11453.49. Current value (as of sept 2004) if they werer to cash it in €4818.77
There's a fund management charge of .75%

What ages are they and when are they planning to draw down the pension benefits?
Pension is in my fathers name he 59, not sure when he's going to cash it in but it matures onthe 1st may 2018
Are you sure that it's a pension and not some sort of combined life assurance and saving fund?


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## ClubMan (11 Nov 2007)

ankles said:


> What sort of pension fund is this?
> From what I can tell, it seems to be a Lifesaver plan (there is  a pension attached to this)


What do you mean "attached" to this? What else is this thing if it's not just a pension?





> What charges apply (including any that ate up contributions early on)?
> Fund Management Charge of .75%


What other charges ever applied (e.g. percentage of each contribution, bid/offer spread etc.)?

You talk of "cashing it in" but this is not a term commonly used in relation to pensions in my (amateur) experience. Are you *absolutely sure *that this is not actually some sort of combined life assurance and savings plan?


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## MMilken (12 Nov 2007)

I think it sounds like a flexi life/savings policy.

Maybe a sales person mentioned the word pension to clinch the sale?


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## LDFerguson (12 Nov 2007)

One quick phone call to Irish Life would clear up once and for all whether or not this is a "pension" policy at all.  From what you've posted above, I'd say not.  

There is probably life assurance cover attaching to this policy, the cost of which is eating into the value.  As your parents get older, the cost of the life cover is increasing.  Again, this can be checked with Irish Life.


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## ankles (12 Nov 2007)

All,

Thanks for the replys, I think the best thing now is for my parents to contact Irish Life directly, the information I'm providing seems to be generating more questions than answers (my fault). I just don't understand exactly what it is they signed up for. 

I'll tell them to contact Irish life and keep you posted as to the outcome...

Thanks again for the help.


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## ClubMan (12 Nov 2007)

In my opinion they should put their queries in writing asking for a written reply since that is the best bet on getting accurate info and not some spiel.


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