# dog was attacked by another dog - how best to seek justice?



## Jock04 (6 May 2008)

My dog was attacked by another dog at the weekend, and has been left with a deep gouge in her back, and she is clearly sore in other areas.
Mrs Jock took her into the vet this morning & the upshot is the dog has to stay there for most of the day to receive treatment. This will cost us €200 plus Mrs Jock has lost a chunk of her working day, which she won't be paid for. She also has nasty scratches on her hand from trying to get the attacker off our dog.
We spoke to a Guarda after the attack - the 3rd time it has happened to our dog and other dogs have been attacked too. He's visiting the owner today "to tell him to get rid of the dog."
Now, the owner is a well-known local ne'er-do-well who exists on welfare payments & would surely show any court that he can't afford to recompense us. I know he's going to lose 1 of his 3 dogs, but this will soon be replaced by another, going on previous trouble he's been in because of dogs. I still feel that he should be made to pay in some way for continually failing to control a savage dog. I'm also obviously aggrieved at the financial loss we have endured because of this.

I'd appreciate any guidance as to whether it's worth pursuing this in a small claims court. If so, what's likely to be involved?
Or is there any other legal way to both punish the owner & claim recompense?
Thanks in advance...


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## Caveat (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

Hi Jock

No real experience or knowledge with this, but maybe if you contact the ISPCA? maybe not within their remit, but they might have some experience of your predicament and input/advice on the best way to proceed.

There may even be an animal welfare aspect to this anyway.


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## rmelly (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

If this is the third time, can you ask the Guard to push for all the dogs to be removed from him and that he be banned from having any animal?


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## Jock04 (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*



rmelly said:


> If this is the third time, can you ask the Guard to push for all the dogs to be removed from him and that he be banned from having any animal?


 
Good point, and one I've already raised. He had all his dogs taken from him once before due to maltreatment, however I don't know whether he was banned from keeping dogs again. It certainly wasn't too long before he replaced them in any case.
I'd actually have mixed feelings about having his other dogs taken away as they are no bother at all, but if I knew they were going into a home rather than being put down, I could certainly live with that.
I think I'll give the Guard another call to push for all the dogs to be removed. I'm already pretty much resigned to losing out on the financial side of this unpleasant situation.

Thanks for the comments so far, gents.


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## truthseeker (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

Disgraceful, I suggest that as well as speaking to ISPCA you speak to your local dog warden, this man may not have all dogs licensed and dog warden can seize them if thats the case. Dog warden may also be able to advise you on other issues.
No dog should be allowed out unsupervised.


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## Satanta (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*



Jock04 said:


> I'd actually have mixed feelings about having his other dogs taken away as they are no bother at all


Given the facts outlined by the OP, I understand where you're coming from with this. It's not the dogs fault, it's down to the owner.

However, in the current situation the dogs are a threat. They (one of the current, and previous animals from the limited information provided) already attacked other animals, with the potential for them to attack young children in the future. 

Obviously that might never happen, but the way the animals are currently being "cared" for (or not as it appears) does open up the possibility of this happening.


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## Jock04 (6 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

Good shout, Satanta.
The 2 "OK" dogs are actually offspring of the vicious one. I am a bit concerned about how they'll react when their mother is removed.

The incident actually happened in our garden. Our dog was on it's leash, Mrs Jock & her brother in law were about to take it & her 4 year old nephew to the beach, when they saw the 3 dogs approaching, so turned back to let them pass. However, the attacker came straight into the garden & attacked our dog from behind.  The other 2 followed it in, but did not join the attack. Thankfully, the child was quickly removed from the scene, but I shudder at what might have happened, especially given the injuries to my wife.
I just don't see removing this dog - or dogs- as a long-term solution. As stated before, he's already had dogs taken from him, and clearly hasn't learned from the experience.
Getting more angry about this by the minute, I'm really wishing now I had dispensed my own justice. And I know that's wrong.


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## Complainer (8 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

Would his house insurance public liability cover the damage caused?


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## Jock04 (9 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*



Complainer said:


> Would his house insurance public liability cover the damage caused?


 
He doesn't have a house, he lives in a very run-down mobile home. Chances of him having insurance - nil.
I'm resigned to losing the 200 odd euro on the vet's bill & Mrs Jock's lost wages, and I can live with that. I just feel that I want him to suffer some sort of punishment for continually failing to control his dog.
The Guard phoned Mrs Jock on Tuesday to say he would be visiting the owner that day & would let her know how the matter had been dealt with.  Surprise, surprise, last night he was out last night with his 3 dogs as usual. Not a peep from the local Guard.
I'm calling the Dog Warden today because I want that dog off the streets. Maybe I should have called them first, but because Mrs Jock was injured I felt the Guards were the right people to deal with this.
Very disappointed at the lack of action, the Guards here aren't exactly over-run with crimes to solve. Really feeling now that I should have dealt with it myself.


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## truthseeker (9 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*

The Guards should be treating it as assault if your wife was injured.

Best bet is the dog warden, there has been a lot of hassle re dogs in my area and the guards were always useless but calls to the dog warden had the offending mutts removed.


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## Marathon Man (9 May 2008)

*Re: Dog attacked - how best to seek justice?*



Complainer said:


> Would his house insurance public liability cover the damage caused?


Apparently this guy hasn't got a house, and so probably doesn't have house insurance (might have public Liability insurance on his cover for the mobile home - if he has any cover at all)

Nevertheless:

Dangerous Dogs, per control of dogs act; If they are in a public place and are NOT on a lead and/or NOT muzzled and/or NOT under the control of a person aged at least 18, then P.L. cover on house insurance policies does NOT cover.

All other dogs: House insurance P.L. policy will cover it.


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## csirl (12 May 2008)

I was under the impression that if a dog attacks and injures a person, it can be put down at the request of the victim?


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## Caveat (12 May 2008)

csirl said:


> I was under the impression that if a dog attacks and injures a person, it can be put down at the request of the victim?


 
That's what I thought too TBH, but maybe it's one of those 'barstool' theories...


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## Jock04 (12 May 2008)

latest news - we got a call from the Guard on Saturday to say he had been busy but was going to see the dog owner that day. He had said in his previous call that the dog would probably be put down.

Well, Monday afternoon now & still no call, and the dog is still at large.
So, over a week after a dog bites a person, a dog with a history of aggessive behaviour, nothing has been done.
Gives you a nice warm feeling inside, eh?


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## Brendan Burgess (12 May 2008)

Have you called the dog warden? 

Brendan


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## Jock04 (12 May 2008)

Hi Brendan

As said earlier, I had intended calling the dog warden at the weekend.
However, having received another call from the Guard, I felt it best to let them deal with it, rather than cause any confusion or indeed annoyance by bringing in another official body.
If there's no call from the Guard by this evening to say the matter's dealt with, I'll certainly be calling in the Dog Warden first thing tomorrow.


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## Jock04 (14 May 2008)

So, having spoke to the Dog Warden, if we put our complaint in writing, the dog will be removed. The fact that a Guard saw Mrs Jock's scratched & bleeding hand did our case a lot of good, I think. The letter is already in the post.

Anyway, another day or two & a dangerous dog will be off the streets. I'm delighted about that, if a little disappointed it took so long. Someone could have been badly hurt in the last 10 days.


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## truthseeker (14 May 2008)

Good work.

In the event of future issues perhaps be best to tell the Gardai up front that you intend calling the Dog Warden without delay or call the Dog Warden first (depending on time of day) - at least that way the dog would be removed faster and the Gardai have no cause for annoyance/confusion.


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## Jock04 (14 May 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Good work.
> 
> In the event of future issues perhaps be best to tell the Gardai up front that you intend calling the Dog Warden without delay or call the Dog Warden first (depending on time of day) - at least that way the dog would be removed faster and the Gardai have no cause for annoyance/confusion.


 

Thanks, TS
The Dog Warden wouldn't have been working as it was a Bank Holiday weekend. Although, tbh, I didn't even think of that at the time. My dogs' back was ripped open & Mrs Jock had nasty looking gashes on her hand & was very shocked. I only knew that if I didn't report it to someone, I'd have taken my own justice........and come off the worse in the end.
I'm actually quite pleased with myself that I didn't lose the plot.....probably means I'm getting old or something!


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## truthseeker (14 May 2008)

Jock04 said:


> Thanks, TS
> The Dog Warden wouldn't have been working as it was a Bank Holiday weekend. Although, tbh, I didn't even think of that at the time. My dogs' back was ripped open & Mrs Jock had nasty looking gashes on her hand & was very shocked. I only knew that if I didn't report it to someone, I'd have taken my own justice........and come off the worse in the end.
> I'm actually quite pleased with myself that I didn't lose the plot.....probably means I'm getting old or something!


 
Thats something I find annoying about the Dog Warden, there was an unattended Rottweiler outside my home recently at 5.10pm and I phoned the Gardai as there were children playing nearby, no collar, no leash, no muzzle, no owner about etc....it is illegal to have this breed in public without proper restraint and I was told that if I called the Dog Warden at 9am next day he would deal with it?!?!? 

No surprise you didnt even think of it with the upset, but at least its being sorted now.

Ah youre not that old Im sure - its maturity not age


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## Jock04 (21 May 2008)

Sadly, this story's not over yet.

Mrs Jock sent the letter to the Council, Environment Dept as requested. Couple of days later, she calls them to see what's happening.
The response: We can't do anyting about it because it happened on private land, you'll have to involve the Guards.
I've sat on this for  days to prevent myself from an anti-council rant but you might just be able to consider just how frustrated I'm feeling.
Anyway, Friday evening Mrs Jock decides to risk taking the dog to the beach again. Walking home back up the boreen, she hears dogs barking, our dog naturally barks back, then she sees the dog which attacked her & our dog tearing up the boreen towards them. Luckily, she had a good head start & got home safe, and the dog didn't follow as far as our garden. It was nowhere to be seen, and neither was it's owner, when I went out looking for them carrying my trusty 3 wood.
So, further calls to the Guarda, the one dealing with it is either off shift or out on enquiries.
Whatever eventually happens, I've learned that no-one we've contacted gives a crap about either my wifes' or my dogs' safety. Absolutely stinks of "keep fobbing them off & ignoring them & it might go away". I'll repeat what I mentioned in a previous post here - we do not live in an area where crime is commonplace. I'm sure the Guard will have some other things to do, but this has gone on since the last Bank Holiday weekend.
I don't feel we've had, or likely to get, any kind of justice. I'll know better next time. 
Rant over, thanks for bearing with me.


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## Caveat (21 May 2008)

Did you try the ISPCA (or similar) route Jock?

I'm sure they won't (and can't) get too involved but they might be familiar with your predicament and may have specific advice/recommendations.

Probably worth a try anyway?


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## Jock04 (21 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> Did you try the ISPCA (or similar) route Jock?
> 
> I'm sure they won't (and can't) get too involved but they might be familiar with your predicament and may have specific advice/recommendations.
> 
> Probably worth a try anyway?


 

Thanks Caveat.
Yeah, it might be worth a call to ISPCA, but you know what, it's stressfull making all these calls & being reminded of what happened & how everyone seems happy to wring their hands & do nothing. From a happy family day out, we've gone to Mrs Jock and her dog being injured, getting the run-around from everyone we've contacted & Mrs Jock both stressed by the continued hassle & actually now very nervousto leave the house on foot.
If it had simply been a dogfight I could've lived with that. But Mrs Jock was attacked & left with nasty cuts to one hand & a lot of bruising to both. And still we can't get any officials to show any interest.

My faith in official bodies - nil.


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## Caveat (21 May 2008)

Well somebody has to say it, and it may seem over the top ... solicitor?


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## Jock04 (21 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> Well somebody has to say it, and it may seem over the top ... solicitor?


 

Well, I'm glad it was you!

To be honest, Caveat, I think it would be pointless.
The owner is a constantly drunk, caravan-dwelling, picking cockles to supplement his welfare cheque waster. 
A solicitors letter would not, I think, faze him at all, and even if he was willing to pay compensation I wouldn't want it. I honestly doubt that even the threat of court action for being complicit in an assault would bother him one bit - what is a court likely to do to him?

Brighter news in a call I just got from Mrs Jock. She had phoned the Guards again this morning to see if any progress. (Was told yesterday that the Guard would be on 9am to 6pm shift today.) First got told he was on shift at 12. Called back at 12:30 to be told he was off until Friday. I'll spare you how she & I both felt at that point!
Anyway, eventually got put onto another Guard who said he would check up. Sure enough, a few minutes later he calls her back to say that the original Guard had logged 3 visits to the caravan, but no-one home on any occassion.
So maybe, just maybe, there will be some progress on Friday.
You'll excuse me for not holding my breath while I wait!


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## stevec (21 May 2008)

At this point, would you consider a letter / phone call to your local TD or councillor?

Tell them that you and Mrs. Jock are in constant fear of being attacked (again) by the dog and the despite reporting it to the authorities, nothing has been done.

There's nothing to lose.


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## truthseeker (21 May 2008)

stevec said:


> At this point, would you consider a letter / phone call to your local TD or councillor?
> 
> Tell them that you and Mrs. Jock are in constant fear of being attacked (again) by the dog and the despite reporting it to the authorities, nothing has been done.
> 
> There's nothing to lose.


 
Thats a great idea - our local councillors are always willing to help out in situations where the authorities are doing nothing - although in this case the Guards seem to be trying to do something but the man isnt in anytime they call.


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## Jock04 (21 May 2008)

I'd have been reluctant to involve anyone else in case it put the Guarda's nose out of joint - we have to live here, in our small community.

I am more hopeful now that we know there have been attempts at action, wish we had known that last week. Would've saved a lot of worry & stress.

Thanks for all the advice folks, hopefully I can post a positive closure on this soon!


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## Bronte (22 May 2008)

I would give a time limit of one week to the Garda and if no result (or Garda doing nothing) go down to the station and make sure they take a written report and include the letter from the Dog Warden, phone calls to officials rarely work.  You don't have to complain about the Garda in your report, be polite,  but I'm guessing they will be more proactive when it's written down.  Alternatively send a registered letter to the station with a list of your complaints.


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## Jock04 (28 May 2008)

Well, this isn't the update I hoped to post but.................

Call from the Guarda to Mrs Jock last night. He's been down to the dog owner, told him there was a complaint, owner says he controls his dogs.
Guarda says he is not empowered to remove the dog, so basically....tough. He will, however, go back to the owner with the Dog Warden & further warn him about his dog, if we want him to. Woohoo. If we want to proceed further, she has to make a formal statement & go to court to give evidence. Next local court is in June, dog owner will get a solicitor supplied by the state & we will have to go back to court the following month when he presents his defence. So, no walking our dog this summer. Mrs Jock tells him about the further incident when the dog chased her up the boreen, Guarda sees nothing here that will spur him into furher action.
During the course of the phone call, Guarda claims to have only heard about this matter last week and we should have reported it sooner. Mrs Jock reminds him that he actually phoned her the day after the incident, to say he had been advised by the Guarda we reported it to on the day. He also makes comments which Mrs Jock took as being a "friendly warning" that the dog owner was a bad lot. Guarda's final offering is that we should pursue the matter through the Dog Warden, as " the law does not allow him to remove the dog." Mrs Jock reminds him that she was also attacked - the Guarda we reported it to saw her hand pouring blood-, and had it been a person, they would surely be dealt with, but a dog seems able to bite a person & no action taken?
"Ah, well, that's the way the law is".

So, to get a dangerous dog off the street, Mrs Jock has to lose more time off work, hire a solicitor & go through the stress of 2 court appearances, with no guarantee of justice. 
Am I wrong to feel we've been totally let down, dismissed as a nuisance, fobbed off?  I don't know whether I'm more sickened or angry.


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## Vanilla (28 May 2008)

That is a disgrace. Get on to your local authority, to the dog warden, tell him your wife has been attacked by this dog and he has the power to seize the dog. Get on to your local councillor for good measure to ensure action is taken quickly. The action should be taken by the County Council and you will not need to hire a solicitor of your own.


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## Jock04 (28 May 2008)

Hi Vanilla
Thanks for the advice - I was kinda hoping you'd show up!

Unforunately, as you'll see above, when we reported to the Dog Warden, he asked us to confirm in writing to his superiors.  This we did, only to be told that they wouldn't/couldn't act because the attack happened on private land. The fact that the dog chased my wife & her dog along a public road & followed them into the garden seems to make no difference to them.


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## Vanilla (28 May 2008)

Jock04 said:


> Hi Vanilla
> Thanks for the advice - I was kinda hoping you'd show up!
> 
> Unforunately, as you'll see above, when we reported to the Dog Warden, he asked us to confirm in writing to his superiors. This we did, only to be told that they wouldn't/couldn't act because the attack happened on private land. The fact that the dog chased my wife & her dog along a public road & followed them into the garden seems to make no difference to them.


 

That is where the local councillor will come in- if their initial problem was that the attack was on private land then now they have no excuse- push, push, push- it is the only way they will take this seriously. I really think it is outrageous that your wife cannot walk the dog without fear of being attacked. I think you are correct however in stating that a solicitor will be able to do nothing for you except take a civil action against this man which would ultimately be useless and will just cost you money.


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