# Excellent article about farmers doing pre-nups



## Brendan Burgess (8 Feb 2012)

Caitriona Murphy wrote a great article in the Indo with three case studies about farmers getting married.

Case Study 1 - she agreed to sign 10 days before the wedding, after initially being taken aback by the suggestion.

Case Study 2


> However, before they signed the document, Ciara got cold feet about the  pre-nup, fretting that she was about to walk up the aisle with a plan  already in place for when the marriage would fall apart.
> 
> Distraught at his fiancée's emotional meltdown, William assured Ciara  that the only thing he really wanted was to marry her and he promptly  scrapped the pre-nup.



Case Study 3 - the mother in law produced the pre-nup and presented it to the woman just before they were due to get married.



> Marie's shock quickly turned into rage and, despite Cathal's insistence  that he knew nothing about his mother's bombshell, she broke off the  engagement and cancelled the wedding.


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## T McGibney (8 Feb 2012)

Catriona must have tremendous negotiation skills if she can manage to get so many farmers and their prospective spouses to divulge their own sensitive personal stories in such detail to a journalist.   Most of the farmers around my neck of the woods wouldn't even tell you what day it is, if they could manage not to.


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## Time (8 Feb 2012)

Pre nups are worthless in Ireland as they seek to undermine the institution of marriage.


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## mf1 (8 Feb 2012)

cashier said:


> Why do people still persist in drawing them up when they have no legal bearing?



From the article: 

"While there is currently nothing in Irish law that obliges a court to enforce a 'pre-nup', there is a growing feeling that they could be taken into account during divorce proceedings."

I believe we are heading in that direction. 

mf


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## Superman (9 Feb 2012)

mf1 said:


> "While there is currently nothing in Irish law that obliges a court to enforce a 'pre-nup', there is a growing feeling that they could be taken into account during divorce proceedings."


Taken into account for a short amount of time - with the more time passing and more different the later circumstances compared to the pre-marital situation, the less weight given to the pre-nup.


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## Time (9 Feb 2012)

That is if the court will even look at it.


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## Alwyn (9 Feb 2012)

From experience, they are not worth the paper they are written on.


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## Gekko (9 Feb 2012)

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been present at meetings where lawyers from the biggest firms have asserted that prenuptual agreements are meaningless in Ireland.


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## mf1 (9 Feb 2012)

Gekko said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but I've been present at meetings where lawyers from the biggest firms have asserted that prenuptual agreements are meaningless in Ireland.



Currently , yes, but as a practising family lawyer, I believe that we are moving in the direction of judicial willingness to consider/acceptance of properly drafted, well thought out and legally advised pre-nuptials as being persuasive in matrimonial cases. 

But sure what would I know!!!!!!

mf


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## Time (9 Feb 2012)

I was spun the same story 10 years ago. The situation has not advanced thus far nor is likely to without legislation.


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## Vanilla (10 Feb 2012)

mf1 said:


> but as a practising family lawyer... sure what would I know!!!!!!



Don't be silly, neither you nor I, nor the combined wisdom of all the people at the forefront of change in the law, the law reform commission and jurisprudence have nothing on anecdotal evidence, especially some decades old or the fella on the next bar stool ( I find him to be particularly persuasive).


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## Firefly (10 Feb 2012)

T McGibney said:


> Catriona must have tremendous negotiation skills if she can manage to get so many farmers and their prospective spouses to divulge their own sensitive personal stories in such detail to a journalist.  Most of the farmers around my neck of the woods wouldn't even tell you what day it is, if they could manage not to.


 
"If you've got something to say, say nothing and keep saying it"


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## Purple (10 Feb 2012)

T McGibney said:


> Catriona must have tremendous negotiation skills if she can manage to get so many farmers and their prospective spouses to divulge their own sensitive personal stories in such detail to a journalist.   Most of the farmers around my neck of the woods wouldn't even tell you what day it is, if they could manage not to.



Lol


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Mar 2012)

The guy on the barstool has advised me that the following factors may be influential in determing if a court in the future might find a pre-nup acceptable 

1) where the agreement is still fair (where both parties had separate independent legal advice and a sufficient cooling off period, and where full disclosure of the person’s means had been made); 
2) where a clause in the agreement states it will end at some time; 
3) most influentially, depending on how long the marriage has lasted.

They seem like reasonable criteria in drawing up a pre-nup. I think that there is very little to be lost by doing one, except some legal fees, and who would begrudge the legal profession that? 

I presume it would be useful at a later stage to have had full diclosure of each other's assets at the time of marriage. 

I also think that a separating couple could well be guided by what they put down in writing some years (or months) earlier, even if the courts refused to look at it.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Nov 2012)

The series of articles has just won the top prize in the Agricultural Journalism Awards


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