# Putting Personal Finance on the Curriculum



## Freddie Kruger (12 Nov 2003)

I have been pondering over this issue for some time now and would welcome any suggestions as to how best to formalise an approach.

If there is ever going to be a successful address of the apparent lack of knowledge on basic financial issues in our society, I think that this is the best place to start.

It doesn't have to be a full-time subject. An hour a week with an advisor, covering topics like insurance, pensions, mortages, bank accounts etc. would go a long way towards giving graduates the basics.

What do you  think?

Is it something that AAM and the Advisor community could work together on?


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## tedd (12 Nov 2003)

Which curriculum do you refer to? Personally, I would favour national school children getting basic financial education, especially on things like savings.


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## Freddie Kruger (13 Nov 2003)

Hi Tedd,

I was thinking about the 15 to 18 year olds. Before they leave the school system or take their first student loans for college.


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## nogser (13 Nov 2003)

To put this on the cirriculum you have to take something else off.  Given the focus on exams I remember switching off for any of the non core subjects like religion.  These were seen as a break in the weekly grind.

However this could be something for the transition year.  I don't know what the schools are covering nowadays in this.  Perhaps a pack could be developed for schools to cover over a 4-6 week period.

Nogser


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## Teacher (13 Nov 2003)

*personal finance*

Personal Finance is taught in some schools that have a Transition Year.

Students find it most helpful for things like car insurance, tax forms, emergency tax, personal loans, minimum wage etc.

However, there is no set curriculum or good Personal Finance packs available for students/teachers.

Perhaps, an AAM Personal Finance pack for beginners would be a good idea.


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## jem (14 Nov 2003)

*Re: personal finance*

Freddie 
You could be on to a winner here,
I would sugest that you first of all talk to the principal of the local school and take it from there.


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## Murt10 (14 Nov 2003)

*Re: personal finance*

I agree with the idea but can you put an old head on young shoulders. 

I remember Civics classes at school. They were boring because you couldn't relate to them. Maybe todays children are different.


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## nogser (14 Nov 2003)

*Re: personal finance*

There was a survey of 16-18 year olds last year.  I can't remember the exact figure but large numbers were working part time to fund phones, social life etc.  Dealing with the Taxman, saving etc would be very relevant to these students.

Nogser


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Nov 2003)

*Re: personal finance*

Does Home Economics cover any personal finance issues?

Maybe it's not caused Home Economics any more?

Brendan


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## fatherdougalmaguire (14 Nov 2003)

*Re: personal finance*

We used to have a 'civics' class in school. It was when there was a 4 year Inter Cert curriculum. We even did Latin. I digress.

Although we didn't do personal finances, we did do stuff about government and how the country is run. In that vein maybe something which would include an element of how social welfare works, getting a mortgage, how PAYE works, etc. - grown-up stuff. I wouldn't see it as an examinable subject. I think it's good to have non-examinable subjects in school.


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## Adolphus Briggs (14 Nov 2003)

*Finding the time.*

Take Irish off the subject list and replace it with Finanial studies. A usless subject replaced by a useful subject. simple.


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## Skinflint (14 Nov 2003)

*.*

Put spelling on the curriculum!


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## Marion (15 Nov 2003)

Hi Freddie

If you have a look at any of the Leaving Certificate Business books you will find that it covers some personal finance issues that you mention

The consumer and conflict resolution including relevant legislation is well covered. 

Household finance is covered - it looks at short, medium and long term sources of finance; banking facilities and account types, current a/c forms, loan applications and forms, statements, houselold budget. 

Household insurance is covered - principles, form filling,(proposal, claim) risk and cost, types of insurance for the household (car, home, health, critical illness, life, personal accident)

Household taxation is covered - PAYE, Self assessment, tax calculation, forms, DIRT, CGT, CAT, VAT.

Finance, insurance and taxation is also looked at from the business as opposed to the household perspective.

This builds on the Junior Cert Business Studies course where these topics are first introduced. 

Social and Scientific (Home ec) also covers consumer issues and budgets.

However, many students will have no access to this topic because business is not available as a subject in the school, or the student elects to take on another subject. Also, many students do not do transition year or personal finance may not be an option coverered.

I agree that all students should have some personal finance training.

Marion :hat


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## heinbloed (16 Nov 2003)

*comment*

Math and logic would do the trick plus a little bit of literacy.The latest OECD report recommends it.


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## garrettod (25 Nov 2003)

*...*

Hi Marion,

While your corect to say that many aspects of what Freddy has suggested, are covered to a greater or lesser extent - I do not think it's done aswell as it could be.

I reckon it's a great idea, but I would propose it be a class a month, starting from the age of about 7-years with savings to begin with (& all pupils to participate with a very small, but regular savings contribution) 

Regards

G>


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## daltonr (17 Dec 2003)

*Re: ...*

Lets be honest what we're talking about here is equiping people with the ability to see through the bullsh1t when dealing with financial service providers.

i.e.  * Over priced payment protection.
      * Questionable ways of charging for Payment protection.
      * Extended warranties that nobody needs.
      * Questionable Hire purchase schemes such as Balloon 
         payments, and "interest free options" that are nothing 
         of the sort.
      * Unnecessary and overpriced insurance products.

I'd compare it to the difference between explaining what a pension is, and explaining the impact of higher or hidden charges on a pension.

It'd be interesting to give each student €1000 on starting school, which they could not spend but which they could invest (based on lessons learned in school).  Anyone who passed their leaving cert would get access to the fund.  

Probably impractical though.  But a good incentive to stay in school.

-Rd


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## Freddie Kruger (16 Jan 2004)

*Re: ...*

Hey. Hey

It seems IFSRA are talking to the Department of Education about this issue.

It is their intention to develop an Action Plan for financial planning education including a schools programme and publish a Consultation paper by June 2004

I can now sleep soundly again


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## cushtie (16 Jan 2004)

*Quote
"I reckon it's a great idea, but I would propose it be a class a month, starting from the age of about 7-years with savings to begin with (& all pupils to participate with a very small, but regular savings contribution)"*

I remember when we were in National School we had something along the lines of this. We used to buy saving stamps for around 1p or 5p or something off the teacher and stick them in a little book and at the end of the year she would give us all back the money, it's a bit vague in my head now but it was in the early 80's.

The teacher in question was also the wife of the local postmaster so maybe it was An Post thing that she just helped us out with. Does anyone else remember something like this


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (17 Jan 2004)

I remember the Post savings stamps books and 5p savings stamps all right but I don't remember school promoting them. This was well before the Celtic Tiger for the benefit of our younger readers! :lol   This seems to be the modern version: www.anpost.ie/personal/fi...chool.html  The fact that the stamps are now €1 each gives you an idea of the effects of inflation and the increase in general affluence since my time ...


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## Tolbam (18 Sep 2004)

*Re: ...*

ISFRA are currently looking for comments on a financial education program.  They say that the results will be published on the web.

Paul


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## Marie (18 Sep 2004)

*Re: ...*

Paul - Perhaps you should send them the URL for this thread.  The basic idea of financial education at primary school level and ways of implementing it appear a number of times in past AAM threads.


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## crugers (20 Sep 2004)

Not too sure that Brendan will apreciate the input but the Credit Union movement have a Youth Development Programme.
Tallaght & District CU facilitated a credit union being formed in a local school, run by the pupils!
And more!
[broken link removed]


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