# Cemetery for Catholics only?



## pops (11 Mar 2008)

My children are not christened in the RC faith and although I was, I'm not a believer anymore.  My husband was brought up in the Church of Scotland and is also an atheist.  My worry is that should my children or my husband pre-disease me, will I be able to get a plot in my local cemetry where all my family have been buried? Sorry to be so morbid!!


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## RMCF (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*

Its something I never heard asked before.

I don't think that cemeteries would be only for Catholics, unless of course the land was owned by the Catholic Church.

I would guess that it is the right of every citizen to receive burial in a city cemetery irrespective of religion.

What else would the authorities do with your body otherwise


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## truthseeker (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*



RMCF said:


> I would guess that it is the right of every citizen to receive burial in a city cemetery irrespective of religion.


 
This is a very interesting question!!! RMCF - are 'city cemeteries' different to ones connected to particular churches or parishes?

I will also be in the position of not being a practising catholic when I die but I always thought Id go for the cremation option (nothing to do with religious beliefs though, just personal preference).


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## Marie (11 Mar 2008)

*Cemetry for Catholics only?*

You could check this through a local undertaker.  I always assumed cemetaries were denominational.  I live near a Quaker cemetery which is a burial place for Quakers (not others).  As far as I know the only 'inter-denominational' setups are the crematoria and the arrangement there is you bring the priest/vicar/rabbi of your own faith to conduct the last rituals.


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## gillarosa (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*

I could be wrong but I believe Glasnevin Cemetry is non - denom, maybe was even established specifically for that purpose


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## csirl (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*

Depends who owns the cemetry.


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## Trent (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*



pops said:


> My worry is that should my children or my husband pre-disease me


 
What kind of disease would they be planning to inflict on you?


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## Megan (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*



pops said:


> My children are not christened in the RC faith and although I was, I'm not a believer anymore.  My husband was brought up in the Church of Scotland and is also an atheist.  My worry is that should my children or my husband pre-disease me, will I be able to get a plot in my local cemetry where all my family have been buried? Sorry to be so morbid!!



If all your family are buried there - can't you be buried with them that is if there is enough time between their death and yours. I was at a funeral recently where the deaceased's funeral service (Mass) was in the ROI church and she was buried in the local COI graveyard where her late husband was buried. (She was ROI and he was COI and he was dead 30 years)


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## DavyJones (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*

Was at a funeral in a little village, where an elderly lady was being buried. she was a born again christian,before that she had been church of England. She was English and moved to Ireland a couple of years ago and had no famliy ties to area, She was buried in the local RC graveyard and had a very born again christian service. I think it depends on the parish preist at the time.


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## mercman (11 Mar 2008)

Jeepers Happy Days !! Good question - I am Jewish and for which the RC Church does not take Jews in for burial. My wife is RC and from good old Rural Ireland and she asked the priest a number of years ago would they take me and was told NO. There was a change of priest , for who we have become friendly with and  he says no problem. Likely to change when a different  priest is in place. Saying that I have no desire to go there and i'm off to the Jewish burial ground, but alas I have no intention going for a while. Forget me, for the OP, you had better do some (no pun intended) spadework on this subject with the local clergy .


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## RMCF (11 Mar 2008)

*Re: Cemetry for Catholics only?*



truthseeker said:


> This is a very interesting question!!! RMCF - are 'city cemeteries' different to ones connected to particular churches or parishes?
> 
> I will also be in the position of not being a practising catholic when I die but I always thought Id go for the cremation option (nothing to do with religious beliefs though, just personal preference).



I appreciate that many cemeteries are attached to churches and as such would be their property. But in many of the bigger cities there are large cemeteries that are 'standalone'. I always assumed that these were run by the local council. 

But I am no expert - perhaps I am wrong.


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## truthseeker (12 Mar 2008)

had a look on citizensinformation.ie - it would appear that cemeteries are owned by either local parishes or local authorities - no mention of religion so id imagine the local authority ones allow all faiths.


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## pops (12 Mar 2008)

Thanks for all the replies.  I live in (very) rural Ireland where there is only one cemetry and is as far as I know owned by the  RC and I don't fancy approaching the local priest as he is not the friendliest.  Hopefully he'll pop his clogs soon and be replaced by someone more open-minded.  I don't know if there is a crematorium in the West of Ireland but it's worth finding out.


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## mercman (12 Mar 2008)

pops -- There are no crematoriums in the West of Ireland.  If it remains a deceaseds  wishes to be cremated, the undertakers take the Body to Dublin to be cremated. As far as I know there are no  plans in the distant future to make this facility available. Not sure wat part of the West you are in, but have  you noticed that they are  amalgamating different paishes  due to the shortage of priests.


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## ubiquitous (12 Mar 2008)

pops said:


> Thanks for all the replies.  I live in (very) rural Ireland where there is only one cemetry and is as far as I know owned by the  RC and I don't fancy approaching the local priest as he is not the friendliest.



Usually the policies on these matters are dealt with at diocesan level, ie the bishop



pops said:


> Hopefully he'll pop his clogs soon and be replaced by someone more open-minded.



What a touching statement. If this is your attitude to him, I'm not surprised if "he is not the friendliest" to you in return.


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## mercman (12 Mar 2008)

ubiqutous. Whilst not a Christian and not wishing to take sides for either side, some of the clergy in this part of the country are downright ignorant.I've heard some of the stories from persons of happenings when people where young (in the last 40 years), to the present times, and it would make the hair stand on the back of your head. However, there are some extremely caring and pleasant priests who have to take up the role of compensating for the others' misgivings and blatant ignorance.


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## ubiquitous (12 Mar 2008)

mercman said:


> ubiqutous. Whilst not a Christian and not wishing to take sides for either side, some of the clergy in this part of the country are downright ignorant.I've heard some of the stories from persons of happenings when people where young (in the last 40 years), to the present times, and it would make the hair stand on the back of your head. However, there are some extremely caring and pleasant priests who have to take up the role of compensating for the others' misgivings and blatant ignorance.



That may be so but wishing for someone to die soon is a bit much, in my opinion...


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## mercman (12 Mar 2008)

Can't dissagree with your opinion but however I think that an euphemism should have been used in this case.


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## pops (14 Mar 2008)

This particular priest has spoken against single mothers in the parish, refused to babtize children whose parents who haven't been married etc. My children the only ones in the local school who haven't been christened or undergone their 1st communion and there has been a bit of pressure about this.  Whilst not exactly wishing anything terrible to happen to him, you can understand why I am reluctant in asking him about the use of the local graveyard.


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## mercman (14 Mar 2008)

pops - sounds familiar. We're both in the same part of the country allright. Send me a PM as to where exactly you are (which parish or town)


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## truthseeker (14 Mar 2008)

mercman said:


> pops - sounds familiar. We're both in the same part of the country allright. Send me a PM as to where exactly you are (which parish or town)



it happens in all parts of the country - id a friend went to a priest in Dublin asking for her son to be baptised and was practically chased out of the presbetery because she is a single mother - she went next door and the priest in there had no problems with it.


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## pops (18 Mar 2008)

I'm not saying that all priests are like this, but it doesn't make it easy for 'outsiders' to approach the church about sensitive matters like this when there are a few with such a reputation. I guess there are any rules as such then about who can and can't be buried in these cemetries?  Is it possible to buried in a place that isn't a consecrated area for example?


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## s_loop (18 Mar 2008)

pops said:


> I'm not saying that all priests are like this, but it doesn't make it easy for 'outsiders' to approach the church about sensitive matters like this when there are a few with such a reputation. I guess there are any rules as such then about who can and can't be buried in these cemetries? Is it possible to buried in a place that isn't a consecrated area for example?


 

Yes, it is but if you are to be buried as a Catholic the priest must perform an additional ceremony.  You should also own the land.  If the cemetary is owned by the Church (which in towns and villages they primarily are, in cities I do not know) then they are entitled to refuse burial in the cemetary.  Until recently in my home town all unbaptised children were denied access to the cemetary.


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## Caveat (18 Mar 2008)

Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?

(Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)


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## mercman (18 Mar 2008)

s loop. This is what I meant in my post of 11/03. The Jewish people were refused burial in the Christian graveyards years ago and that was that. Up to date situation is that there are a heap more graves in the Jewish Graveyard, for persons that died and people did not realise they actually were Jewish. Reckon it boils down to intermarriage years ago and when they die the Jewish burial Society takes them, no questions asked, as possibly the Christians may well of refused it. I must find out. Anyway the country has moved on in leaps and bounds over the past 10/15 years but unfortunately there are sectors out there who do not and will not facilitate their own, lest alone others. Strange but true.


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## mercman (18 Mar 2008)

caveat - surely if a person was baptised at birth, they hold a divine right to be buried in a Christian graveyard on death.


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## Caveat (18 Mar 2008)

mercman said:


> caveat - surely if a person was baptised at birth, they hold a divine right to be buried in a Christian graveyard on death.


 
Even if they subsequently reject that same church and it's teachings?

It's more of a question of integrity I think.  Maybe theologically, they have a right but do they have a moral right?

Because it's a sombre subject and obviously emotional, it's difficult to be coldly objective about it but really, if this were applied to other situations/societies/organisations could people avail of their services when it suited them but reject their doctrine in all other cases?

Anyway, this is OT really - apologies


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## Nige (18 Mar 2008)

Caveat said:


> Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?
> 
> (Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)


 
I think the issue isn't that non-Catholics are excluded from the cemetries but that (as with education) the Catholic church have a near monopoloy on burial grounds and there are few other options available for the many people who aren't catholic.


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## Caveat (18 Mar 2008)

I realise that Nige - but I was making a more general, related point - but as I said , a bit off topic - sorry.


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## Superman (18 Mar 2008)

Caveat said:


> Even if they subsequently reject that same church and it's teachings?
> 
> It's more of a question of integrity I think.  Maybe theologically, they have a right but do they have a moral right?



If the Catholic Church makes it so hard to leave the Church while one is alive (ex-communication is rather rare), it seems a bit rich that they feel they can kick you out when you are dead.


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## truthseeker (19 Mar 2008)

Caveat said:


> Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?
> 
> (Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)


 
I agree with this post - if you are not a practising Catholic then why should you be entitled to be buried in a Catholic graveyard? But the point of the OPs post is just that - they are NOT Catholic - so what choices are going to be available to them upon death?
If they dont live near a local authority graveyard then they may have to be buried a long way from their home making things awkward for family to maintain/visit the grave. 

I think that the unfortunate truth of it is that this country is predominantly Catholic and the church and state are still far too closely linked on some issues, like burial and education - to allow for many other options.


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## stir crazy (19 Mar 2008)

Well my point of view is this. My grandparents bought a plot in a nice part (like the residents would notice) of Mount Argus cemetary in the 1980's for something like 5 to 10 grand. Is'nt this cemetary connected to the adjacent Catholic church ?
Now after paying for this plot and owning it how can someone tell us who can and cant be buried there , regardless of religion ?


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## truthseeker (19 Mar 2008)

stir crazy said:


> Well my point of view is this. My grandparents bought a plot in a nice part (like the residents would notice) of Mount Argus cemetary in the 1980's for something like 5 to 10 grand. Is'nt this cemetary connected to the adjacent Catholic church ?
> Now after paying for this plot and owning it how can someone tell us who can and cant be buried there , regardless of religion ?


 
a bit of a side issue - but wonder would they have been allowed buy it if they werent catholic themselves (or perhaps they arent - please correct me if Im wrong).
in that case the catholic church probably think 'well you gotta promise to bring the kids up catholic if you have a catholic ceremnony so anyone getting buried there in the next couple of generations are probably catholic'?


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## stir crazy (19 Mar 2008)

truthseeker said:


> a bit of a side issue - but wonder would they have been allowed buy it if they werent catholic themselves (or perhaps they arent - please correct me if Im wrong).
> i



They were definitely Catholic. They did everything by the book, so much so that my Gran spent half her life savings (working 3 jobs for years) at the time to bury Grandad. I'm not sure what form the ownership of the plot exists in. I just know at least 5 grand was spent back in the early 80's when it was a lot more money than it is now. The whole funeral expenses etc came to twice that. This was old money too. Not Euros.


(Probably a good off topic aside comment is what a money making racket it has to be. If the Church wanted to improve its green credentials it should publish a paper congratulating those who get cremated as conserving precious land resources (burying Brass handles etc)  and therefore being less 'sinful'.)


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## truthseeker (19 Mar 2008)

stir crazy said:


> They were definitely Catholic. They did everything by the book, so much so that my Gran spent half her life savings (working 3 jobs for years) at the time to bury Grandad. I'm not sure what form the ownership of the plot exists in. I just know at least 5 grand was spent back in the early 80's when it was a lot more money than it is now. The whole funeral expenses etc came to twice that. This was old money too. Not Euros.
> 
> 
> (Probably a good off topic aside comment is what a money making racket it has to be. If the Church wanted to improve its green credentials it should publish a paper congratulating those who get cremated as conserving precious land resources (burying Brass handles etc) and therefore being less 'sinful'.)


 
so when you buy a plot do you have 'ownership' of the land and hence be allowed bury whoever you like there of whatever religion i wonder? i dont know the answer to that one but the church may raise an eyebrow if you say you want to use the plot for burial without a catholic ceremony - we really need a rep for the catholic church on this thread to set us straight!

totally agree with you about 'green credentials' - but then again promoting no contraception in countries with AIDS epidemics is not a good idea either and it happens.


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## rabbit (19 Mar 2008)

Superman said:


> If the Catholic Church makes it so hard to leave the Church while one is alive (ex-communication is rather rare),


 
They did not even kick out Hitler or Mussolini, and they were both Catholics.


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## mercman (19 Mar 2008)

Good Point Rabbit. So if one is baptised but chooses not to practice their religion, they are placed in a lessor or worser position than does who do wrong.


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## Marie (19 Mar 2008)

truthseeker said:


> so when you buy a plot do you have 'ownership' of the land and hence be allowed bury whoever you like there of whatever religion i wonder? i dont know the answer to that one but the church may raise an eyebrow if you say you want to use the plot for burial without a catholic ceremony - we really need a rep for the catholic church on this thread to set us straight!
> 
> totally agree with you about 'green credentials' - but then again promoting no contraception in countries with AIDS epidemics is not a good idea either and it happens.


 
When you buy a family plot you don't 'own' the grave you have the use of it. If anyone is stuck for a last resting place having lived the athiestic high-life the newest (non-denominational) solution is a green burial with a 'wrapper' of hessian or a simple recycled compressed paper coffin, all in the field or wood of your choice with a tree planted on top if you wish. We discussed this on AAM some years ago. I put some contact details for Irish green burials. 

As long as you don't bury a corpse adjacent to the human water supply system you can legally dispose of remains anywhere, including your own back garden.


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## mercman (19 Mar 2008)

Marie, No you can't. They brought laws in a few years ago to stop that kind of thing. In Ireland, Burials of humans are only allowed in designated areas


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## ubiquitous (20 Mar 2008)

mercman said:


> They brought laws in a few years ago to stop that kind of thing.



Many years ago, actually. There was a particular controversy about one such case well over a decade ago where a family were not allowed bury someone on their own land.


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## truthseeker (20 Mar 2008)

Marie said:


> When you buy a family plot you don't 'own' the grave you have the use of it. If anyone is stuck for a last resting place having lived the athiestic high-life the newest (non-denominational) solution is a green burial with a 'wrapper' of hessian or a simple recycled compressed paper coffin, all in the field or wood of your choice with a tree planted on top if you wish. We discussed this on AAM some years ago. I put some contact details for Irish green burials.
> 
> As long as you don't bury a corpse adjacent to the human water supply system you can legally dispose of remains anywhere, including your own back garden.


 

I agree with the previous 2 posters that you are not allowed to do this - however Marie Id be interested in seeing your 'Irish green burial' links?


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## eileen alana (20 Mar 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Many years ago, actually. There was a particular controversy about one such case well over a decade ago where a family were not allowed bury someone on their own land.


 

Was it about this particular story?

*Relief as woman's last wish granted* 

[broken link removed]


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## truthseeker (20 Mar 2008)

Or this one - which has absolutely nothing on the site to lead me to believe that the story is true and mentions practically nothing about the legalities of such a burial either - in fact the story states the the woman in question went ahead with her husbands burial without consulting the county council 6 years after an initial (and somewhat inconclusive) enquiry.

[broken link removed]


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