# How do I calculate stamp duty clawback?



## Shrimp (21 Nov 2007)

I bought my first home in June 2005 (for E280,000) and as a first time buyer was exempt from stamp duty (which would have been around E11,000 before the change). Now, for family reasons, I'm back living with a parent for a while and have decided to rent out my own home. I've been trying to do a rough calculation on how much I would have to pay in stamp duty clawback but I can't make head nor tail of it. The Revenue site says "the clawback amounts to the difference between the higher stamp duty rates and the duty paid" - err, what?! Are there any experts out there who can give me a rough figure or should I just contact Revenue and ask them about it? Many thanks.


----------



## mf1 (21 Nov 2007)

14000.00. No duty for ftb. Investor rate is/was 5% = 14000.00. 
Due when rent received from property. 

Where did you get 11K from? Was that ftb rate prior?

Or you could sell. No stamp duty. No CGT. Although you incur sale costs and you are off the property ladder. Plus not much is selling. Or you could not rent it out. 

mf


----------



## bacchus (21 Nov 2007)

Shrimp said:


> I bought my first home in June 2005 (for E280,000)



At that price, it must have been in a place worse than the "Godforsaken hell-holes" you referred to in this thread which seems to have offended many posters.




			
				Shrimp said:
			
		

> Let's stop being polite....the 'newer' parts of Lucan are Godforsaken hell-holes, unless your idea of heaven is concrete/roundabouts/crime/ Lidl/Aldi/Bookies/graffitti, with barely a patch of grass for a kid to kick a ball on. Most of the people who live there only do so because they can't, unfortunately, afford any better.


----------



## Nige (21 Nov 2007)

If you bought your house new, the VAT on the sale (13.5%) should be deducted from what you paid, before you calculate the stamp duty.


----------



## Shrimp (21 Nov 2007)

bacchus said:


> At that price, it must have been in a place worse than the "Godforsaken hell-holes" you referred to in this thread which seems to have offended many posters.



The truth can be a painful thing Bacchus


----------



## Shrimp (21 Nov 2007)

mf1 said:


> 14000.00. No duty for ftb. Investor rate is/was 5% = 14000.00.
> Due when rent received from property.
> 
> Where did you get 11K from? Was that ftb rate prior?
> ...



Thanks for that mf1, appreciated. Yeah, E11,000 was roughly the figure I would have had to pay before the lovely Mr Cowen saved me. 

PS mf1? I forgot to ask, is there no reduction in the clawback even if you lived in the house for a couple of years? ie If you rented it out a month after buying it or 4 years and 11 months is the clawback the same? Thanks.


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2007)

Shrimp said:


> is there no reduction in the clawback even if you lived in the house for a couple of years?


No - there is no reduction in such circumstances.


> ie If you rented it out a month after buying it or 4 years and 11 months is the clawback the same?


 Yes - it's all or nothing with the _SD _clawback.


----------



## mf1 (21 Nov 2007)

Shrimp - see what Nige has said above - if it was a new house then the VAT should be deducted. You'll probably need to take up your Deeds  through your solicitor to check this out. 

On a technical note - to what do Revenue affix the receipt for stamp duty in this case? Do they want the original Deed ( ok if its Registry of Deeds as the original will be with the lender) but a bugger if  its Land Registry as Transfer has to be taken up from LR.

Anyone know?

mf


----------



## Shrimp (21 Nov 2007)

Many thanks for the latest replies mf1 and Clubman. Before I read them I rang Revenue just to clarify the situation and their info was exactly the same as yours, ie no sliding scale (which strikes me as a bit unfair, but anyway....). And mf1 was spot on with his calculation on what the clawback would be, about E14,000....which, needless to say, has ended any plan I ever had to rent out my house!

Really not sure what to do now. I genuinely have *no* interest in going down a shady route - eg pretending I still live there full-time and renting out a room(s), or finding tenants who are happy to do everything under the table (as a letting agent I spoke to last week suggested I do) - because I just don't want to live in fear of Revenue catching me, and then having to pay the penalties. I could claim I object to the 'shady route' for moral reasons, but I'd be lying, it's just the fear of being caught.

If any of you were in this situation what would you do?  

I know all discussion of the property market is banned here so I won't go down that route, but just as a point of information I've tried to sell the house with no success, despite the asking price being dropped from E390,000 to E350,000 (and falling).

Circumstances mean I cannot live in the house for the forseeable future, the clawback (which I cannot afford) makes it impossible to rent it out.  Is there any other option you can think of?

Many thanks again for the advice.

PS mf1 - meant to clarify, it wasn't a new house when I bought it. Although it looks like new now


----------



## Persius (23 Nov 2007)

Standard advice here these days seems to be "drop the price". After all, if you bought it for €280k, surely you can sell it for €300k and still break even. If the alternative is to continue paying a mortgage you can't afford, then it may be worth it.


----------



## Shrimp (5 Dec 2007)

Persius said:


> Standard advice here these days seems to be &quot;drop the price&quot;. After all, if you bought it for €280k, surely you can sell it for €300k and still break even. If the alternative is to continue paying a mortgage you can't afford, then it may be worth it.


 
Never thought I'd say 'love you Mr Cowen'  The clawback change today means all my mortgage woes are over, can now rent it out - and I already have three tenants ready to move in. Happy days.


----------



## bacchus (5 Dec 2007)

Shrimp said:


> Never thought I'd say 'love you Mr Cowan'


Who is that? a new minister?


----------



## asdfg (5 Dec 2007)

> The clawback change today means all my mortgage woes are over, can now rent it out - and I already have three tenants ready to move in. Happy days.


 
Be careful, 2 years clawback is available on houses bought from today.
The same will probably apply to the increase in the rent a room relief to 10K 
See [broken link removed] 

although not mentioned in the ministers speech the devil will be in the detail.


----------



## asdfg (5 Dec 2007)

Just came across this so shrimp as you say happy days Scroll down to "Claw-back of Relief for First-time Purchasers and other Owner-Occupiers "


----------



## Shrimp (6 Dec 2007)

duplicate


----------



## Shrimp (6 Dec 2007)

bacchus said:


> Who is that? a new minister?


 
Corrected, apologies....but you're still very miffed about my views on Lucan, aren't you ;-)


----------



## Shrimp (6 Dec 2007)

asdfg said:


> Just came across this so shrimp as you say happy days Scroll down to &quot;Claw-back of Relief for First-time Purchasers and other Owner-Occupiers &quot;


 
Many thanks for that asdfg. I was worried alright that the clawback change only applied to houses bought from today but checked it so knew I was covered. Thanks again.


----------



## Shrimp (6 Dec 2007)

PS





bacchus said:


> I wish.... it tooks 3 weeks (mid Nov) for a large enveloppe to make it from Donegal to Dublin. (correct stamp amount was paid, so under payment was not the source of the delay).


 
What's an enveloppe? ;-)


----------



## dewdrop (6 Dec 2007)

after the euphoria of the relaxation of the clawback and the temporary aanxiety, since removed, that it only applied as from now i feel exhuberance should be tempered by a clear understanding of lthe implications of renting your home which has been clearly outlined in other threads. to save numerous queries perhaps club administrator would again outline these....many thanks to him/her for patience in explaining athe previous situation


----------



## SCvilla29 (18 Jan 2008)

What if you started renting last summer?  I purchased in 2004, lived there for 2 and a half years and have now moved and rented.


----------



## ClubMan (18 Jan 2008)

Are you asking if you would be liable for the clawback of _SD _in this situation? The answer is yes since you rented out within 5 years of purchase. The new 2 year clawback period only kicked in for Budget 2008 (backdated to 5th November 2007 I believe).


----------

