# Buying Silver or Gold in Ireland



## discovery101 (24 Apr 2019)

Hi Guys can you recommend any good reliable places in Ireland to buy any of the above? I am a newbie in the field.

thank you in advance.


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## landlord (25 Apr 2019)

I used to buy from Goldcore in Ireland, but I have been told the cheapest around for Europe is 
https://www.europeanmint.com/
I haven’t tried them yet. Has anyone else?


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## Daddy Ireland (20 Jul 2019)

What about Bullionbypost ?


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## Tintagel (21 Jul 2019)

Quite a lot of the early pre 1943 Irish coins had a high concentration of silver. Shilling, Florin, Half Crown, Pearse Coin.  As well as being collectable for their dates you can have fun seeking out the rarities. Many are available on www.adverts.ie etc


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## Laughahalla (21 Jul 2019)

If you are buying physical silver you could pay vat on it if bought in Ireland or UK. Be sure to check this out first before you buy. Gold is not subject to VAT.

Geiger edelmetalle in Germany do not charge VAT as well as [broken link removed]   Both are legit/good companies that deliver to your door.

Stay away from gold/silver for numismatic reasons. you will pay an additional premium above the price for gold/silver for these.


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## Daddy Ireland (21 Jul 2019)

Strongly thinking of investing 20% of my funds in physical silver.   The time will come again and I won't be waiting a decade to see the price of silver double in price from its current € 14.50   Thanks Laughahalla, I will look into both those companies and purchasing without Vat would be the aim.


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## Marc (21 Jul 2019)

really? Is this a “thing” again?


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## Daddy Ireland (21 Jul 2019)

Yes Marc it is.   Since when is investing in gold or silvet a fad 'thing'.
So you dont recommend your clients invest a portion of their wealth in precious metals ? Now that surprises me.


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## Laughahalla (22 Jul 2019)

You should note, It can be a pain/risky to store your own physical gold/silver. To sell it can be a pain too. Obviously , you will be able to sell it at market price but it might take some time and effort to find a buyer.


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## landlord (22 Jul 2019)

I use europeanmint.com for silver








						2020 1 oz $5 CAD Canadian Silver Maple Leaf Coin BU
					

Buy the 2020 1 oz $5 CAD Canadian Silver Maple Leaf Coin in Europe.




					www.europeanmint.com
				



They are the cheapest around for commission. 
And fast delivery. I used to use Goldcore who were reputable too, but Europeanmint are much cheaper.


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## EmmDee (22 Jul 2019)

Daddy Ireland said:


> Yes Marc it is.   Since when is investing in gold or silvet a fad 'thing'.
> So you dont recommend your clients invest a portion of their wealth in precious metals ? Now that surprises me.



You might want to have exposure to metals in your portfolio, but actual bullion is surprising. There are risks and practical difficulties with it and admin costs. I'm guessing the buy / sell spread on physicals is a lot wider than an equivalent ETF


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## galway_blow_in (22 Jul 2019)

Just buy the gold ETF ( GLD)


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## joe sod (23 Jul 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Just buy the gold ETF ( GLD)


 
but is there not the usual horrible tax implications from holding etfs in ireland , 8 year deemed disposal, 41% tax etc, (unless you can buy the US domiciled ones)


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## galway_blow_in (23 Jul 2019)

joe sod said:


> but is there not the usual horrible tax implications from holding etfs in ireland , 8 year deemed disposal, 41% tax etc, (unless you can buy the US domiciled ones)



Oh yeah, forgot about not being able to buy U. S domiciled etfs anymore


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## Daddy Ireland (24 Jul 2019)

So have I understood correct in my pursuit of purchasing physical silver.
Buy silver coins outside of Ireland vat free as recommended by Laughahalla.  I say silver coins rather than bars as easier to offload I would imagine and if a crisis hits very easy to offload.  I gather coins ate more costly than bars but for the convenience of moving them on I think coins are the best option.  I would plan on storing them in a very safe place where nobody but my immediate family would know of their existence.  I dont like ETF's.   Any advice as to type of silver coins that are best to purchase.   I wouls be looking at purchasing €10k to €15k worth.


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## Daddy Ireland (24 Jul 2019)

Laughahalla said:


> Stay away from gold/silver for numismatic reasons. you will pay an additional premium above the price for gold/silver for these.


When you say stay away from gold/silver for numismatic reasons what exactly do you mean.  Do you mean do not buy coins ?


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## Laughahalla (24 Jul 2019)

Daddy Ireland said:


> When you say stay away from gold/silver for numismatic reasons what exactly do you mean.  Do you mean do not buy coins ?


Coins are fine and portable enough.
Some people buy special edition gold and silver coins because they like collecting the different editions of the coins or special runs that the mint brought out . Those people pay a premium over the gold/silver market value for this.They're like stamp collectors.

When buying gold/silver coins for potential SHTF situation then stick with the regular American Eagle, Canadian maple leaf, Austrian Philharmonic e.t.c. No need to buy the special version of them. If you do you'll pay more than the value of the the gold/silver.

There is worse ways to spend your money, you'll always get spot price for it so it's like spending but you're actually buying something that "should" keep it's value and possibly increase.


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## Daddy Ireland (24 Jul 2019)

Thanks Laughahalla. Do you recommend one coin over the other like if I was buying a once off €15k worth or should I buy a mix of the coins you state ?
If the coins remain in the plastic bags they come in stored underground in a dry place should that ensure they will not tarnish ?  If coins tarnish I assune they can down the road be individually cleaned prior to selling.
I am buying these for my kids futures and or for the next economic collapse like there was a few years ago when silver reached US$32.


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## landlord (24 Jul 2019)

A monster box of silver maple leafs is about €7,500  or at least it was a few weeks ago when I last bought one.  Probably gone up a bit since then.   You could buy two of those


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## Daddy Ireland (24 Jul 2019)

Landlord - from europeanmint.com vat free ?
Also are the coins in the monster box wrapped enough to store underground ?


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## landlord (25 Jul 2019)

I believe that they are VAT free, (sales@europeanmint.com)  but It almost doesn’t matter. 
What’s important is who is the cheapest when you include the TOTAL cost with delivery etc... and I am pretty sure you won’t find anyone else cheaper. 
Yes they can be stored underground.


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## Daddy Ireland (25 Jul 2019)

Thanks Landlord.


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## Laughahalla (25 Jul 2019)

Daddy Ireland said:


> Thanks Laughahalla. Do you recommend one coin over the other like if I was buying a once off €15k worth or should I buy a mix of the coins you state ?



you should just probably buy the cheapest you could get because silver is silver. When resold you will get the spot price or spot price + % whether they are American eagle , Canadian maple leaf or Austrian Philharmonic.  Saying that, it is nice to have a variety but if they're going to be buried that doesn't really matter.


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## Daddy Ireland (25 Jul 2019)

Thanks again.


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## Marc (25 Jul 2019)

Lol. These threads really make me laugh.

An investment has two characteristics 

An income made up of interest, rent or dividends and;

An expectation of a capital gain based on the discounted present value of the income stream.

Chocolate coins don’t pay a dividend, can’t pay a dividend and never will pay a dividend.

The valuation is therefore a wild guess.

To avoid losing your shirt when anyone mentions silver at $32 an ounce feel free to google “hunt brothers corner the market” or “Russian invasion of Afghanistan”

You’re welcome


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## Grizzly (18 Aug 2019)

Are all coins on sale 24 karat gold?


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## joe sod (18 Aug 2019)

Marc said:


> An expectation of a capital gain based on the discounted present value of the income stream.


 
but what about the "investors" buying german long dated bonds at negative interest rates now, surely that deserves a bigger laugh, the height of insanity in my view, they are paying 101 euros now for a bond that returns them only 100euros in 10 years time.  When that is happening the guys buying silver and gold are rather sane


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## Sarenco (18 Aug 2019)

But will €101 worth of gold coins be worth €100 in 10 years' time?  Who knows?

All investment returns are relative.


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## noproblem (18 Aug 2019)

Sarenco said:


> But will €101 worth of gold coins be worth €100 in 10 years' time?  Who knows?
> 
> All investment returns are relative.


Hope not  One thing's for sure though, it will have value


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## joe sod (18 Aug 2019)

@Sarenco imagine if you bought a 100 reichsmark bond in 1913, in 1923 you you redeemed your bond and got back 100 reichsmarks, which was worth nothing because of the hyperinflation, yes this is an extreme example. However the guys paying over 101 euros today for a 10 year 100 euro german bond are taking an enormous leap of fate. In 1913 if you bought an ounce of gold you still had that ounce of gold in 1923, hopefully if it was not robbed, but you were not going to be robbed of the 100 reichsmark bond in 1923.


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## Sarenco (18 Aug 2019)

joe sod said:


> However the guys paying over 101 euros today for a 10 year 100 euro german bond are taking an enormous leap of fate.


Why?

Are you suggesting the German State will default?

Personally I think that buying a lump of yellow rock and expecting it to retain any value requires a much greater leap of fate.


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## joe sod (18 Aug 2019)

Sarenco said:


> Are you suggesting the German State will default?



no, but the weimar republic also did not default , they just repaid you with a worthless currency, yes I am using this as an extreme example. However if you are crazy enough to pay a 101 euro for a 100 euro bond, maybe you should also buy some yellow metal to protect you , the future is unknowable but the guys buying those bonds for crazy prices are pretending that they can.


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## Sarenco (18 Aug 2019)

I'm pretty confident that one of the most highly rated sovereigns on the planet will not default on its obligations.  

I'm also pretty confident that the deepest, most liquid market in the world will do a better job than me of assessing future inflation expectations.

I've zero interest in buying blobs of yellow metal with no intrinsic value.  But thanks for the (unsolicited) advice.


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## joe sod (18 Aug 2019)

Sarenco said:


> 'm also pretty confident that the deepest, most liquid market in the world will do a better job than me of assessing future inflation expectations.



but they clearly got it wrong in 2007,2008 with irish, greek and italian soverign bonds, and also bank bonds. If the market had worked properly they would have been defaulted on, but as we know they were not defaulted on not because of the "wisdom" and foresight of the bond markets but because they were protected by the european governments and the ECB. It is that intervention more than anything else that has resulted in the negative interest rates of now. The emperor now has no cloths but the bond markets are pretending he does have or are unwilling to look, if inflation takes off again the emperor wont be able to put back on his cloths again because he threw them away.


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## Sarenco (18 Aug 2019)

Government bond yields of the PIIGS spiked in the wake of the financial crisis due to default concerns - nothing to do with an unanticipated spike in inflation expectations.

We have been living with negative yields in Europe for around five years now.  In that time, the FTSE EMU Government Bond Index has returned an annualised 3.66%.  Not too bad as things turned out.

But you're right - bond investors are paying for safety.  Nothing wrong with that - it's certainly not "crazy" as you keep insisting.

Pretending you know something that has escaped the attention of institutional bond market participants is just silly.


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## tecate (18 Aug 2019)

Here's another way of purchasing gold and silver.


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## AileenWalsh (18 Sep 2019)

Sarenco said:


> Why?
> 
> Are you suggesting the German State will default?
> 
> Personally I think that buying a lump of yellow rock and expecting it to retain any value requires a much greater leap of fate.


I held is value pretty well over nearly 5000 years.


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## BoscoTalking (25 Sep 2019)

At the risk of sounding very thick; Where would one keep a stash of gold or silver? When one lives in the average three bed semidetached and does not have an acre to bury, or a seller seller to lock it away... 

Genuine question as it seems daft to have cash on deposit and yet there are very few alternatives gold and silver being reasonable enough on paper.


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## cremeegg (25 Sep 2019)

Some interesting perspectives here.



joe sod said:


> In 1913 if you bought an ounce of gold you still had that ounce of gold in 1923,



This is obviously true, for any dates.




Sarenco said:


> I'm also pretty confident that the deepest, most liquid market in the world will do a better job than me of assessing future inflation expectations.



This is clearly sensible advice. However the probability of significant inflation in the medium term cannot be described as nil. It is not unreasonable to allocate a portion of your assets to protecting yourself against it. It is also not unreasonable to think that precious metals will hold or even increase their value in real terms, if inflation rises. Even if you think blobs of yellow metal are preposterously overvalued, there is no reason to think they will not continue to be. In fact if inflation takes off they are very likely to hold value.



joe sod said:


> but what about the "investors" buying german long dated bonds at negative interest rates now, surely that deserves a bigger laugh,



No doubt they have their reasons, I suspect that the buyers of these bonds are not actually investing as such. They may have future obligations to meet and wish to know that the funds are in place, without any view to a return.

But I agree that it makes no sense for the average investor. Bits of paper with no yield are like blobs of yellow metal, you hope they will be worth something in the future. A €1,000 bond will be worth €1,000 in 10 years time I have no doubt, but there is a small possibility that a loaf of bread will cost €1,000 by then. An ounce of gold will still be the same ounce of gold, whether it will represent a weeks wages or the price of a loaf in 10 years time, who knows. Though if inflation takes off that in my opinion will increase the chance of gold holding its value. people would lose faith in currency and turn to gold.

If only someone could identify an asset that would have an intrinsic value which would remain the same irrespective of inflation, and if it could pay a dividend along the way that would be great. Now what could that be.


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## joe sod (25 Sep 2019)

cremeegg said:


> only someone could identify an asset that would have an intrinsic value which would remain the same irrespective of inflation, and if it could pay a dividend along the way that would be great. Now what could that be.


Well I presume you know the answer to that, property, utilities, defensive shares, brands ( although in today's world brands are losing their power), oil (it's not going away you know)
But in a period of high inflation the best performing asset is gold and precious metals, they don't just hold their value they way outperform everything else, that's why even having just a small portfolio of gold makes a huge difference in an era of high inflation.


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## tosullivan (18 Nov 2019)

Looking at European Mint for some silver coins maybe 4 tubes
Shipping comes in at €45 but its down as VAT Free
Has anyone ever bought from them and been caught this side for taxes on delivery?


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## Slim (23 Feb 2020)

tosullivan said:


> Looking at European Mint for some silver coins maybe 4 tubes
> Shipping comes in at €45 but its down as VAT Free
> Has anyone ever bought from them and been caught this side for taxes on delivery?


The cost of the coins seems to include a hefty premium for the striking etc. Is this normal or does it depend on the coin/country of origin?


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