# teachers pay



## hopalong (22 Aug 2010)

cant believe what we pay teachers,its at max 60,000euros before allowances,and thats for primary school. see [broken link removed].  and also for principals another 42,469euros at max on top of the basic.looks like were out of control from the taoiseach pay right down.we just cant afford it.and dont bother ringing joe duffy ,he is also one of the top earners in rte who we pay for.see [broken link removed]


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## Pat Bateman (22 Aug 2010)

Here here...these people get 3-4 months paid holidays per year.  Their salaries should be pro-rated accordingly.


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## dmos87 (22 Aug 2010)

I have two sisters who are primary teachers, one who specializes in special needs (both are on approx 28k and have been teaching for a few years now). I see the work that goes in to teaching not just in the classroom but at home, schedule plans correcting homework, planning trips, projects, etc. Both of my sisters purchase extra tools out of their own money for their classes. When I have children of my own I would like to think that their teachers are compensated for all the work they do and more. Kids are tough to handle and a class of 30 or so is worth 65,000 per year in my opinion. It's one of the toughest jobs out there, one that I certainly couldn't do, and neither you by the sounds of it. And just so you are aware, obviously most teachers will never reach 65k per annum.

So while I disagree with your point on teachers pay, I agree that the country went mad during the good times and have allowed salaries to get ridiculous. Brian Cowen earns almost the same as the president of the US - that to me is ridiculous.


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## Pat Bateman (22 Aug 2010)

Your sisters actually earn the equivalent of more than €35,000 per annum.  They get 2-3 months extra paid holidays that none of the rest of us get.  And they work a half day EVERY DAY.  If analysed on an appropriate 'hours worked' basis, teachers are grossly overpaid.

Instead of moaning and playing the poor mouth teachers should be thankful for the handy number that they have.  And don't insult our intelligence by claiming that teaching is anything other than a handy number.  Unless you're teaching in 'bandit country' and at risk of being shot, stabbed or assaulted, it's a handy number.


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## dmos87 (22 Aug 2010)

I agree it is a handy number in terms of time off during the summer, etc. however people make out that the job is easy when its not! Think back to the terrors we were as children, and then tell me trying to teach 30 of that is easy....get real. My sister who teaches special needs has ended up getting stitches after one child grabbed her by the hair and hit her head against the corner of a desk (unintentionally of course). 

Yes, the hours are great but the work does not finish at 2.30pm - they don't make it up on the spot folks there are lesson plans that need to be done, homework to be corrected...the list goes on and on. 

And no, my sisters are not on that wage, I know what they earn in wage every two weeks. This year neither of them have been able to secure additional work for the summer because there are no jobs and one sister is not permanent so it is a real struggle for her at the moment - if the education system changed tomorrow and they were to work summers, their wages would not be increased at all.


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## hopalong (22 Aug 2010)

if you look at the web link you will see exactly how much from year one a teacher will be paid,plus the add on allowances,and for the moment leave out the special needs factors,lets talk about bog standard teachers.


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## valery (22 Aug 2010)

A teacher with a degree, which you would imagine would be the norm, earns an additional allowance of 3,000 euros.  Do they also start further up the pay scale than year 1?


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## chrisboy (22 Aug 2010)

Haha the old "teachers earn too much" thread! Hasnt been around for a while! 

They should work in the parks, or on the bin lorries durin the summer, shouldnt they? 

Quite simple, if you're that jealous of their money or their hours, then go and do the hibernia course. If ya cant beat them join em!!


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## mtk (22 Aug 2010)

pat bateman said:


> your sisters actually earn the equivalent of more than €35,000 per annum. They get 2-3 months extra paid holidays that none of the rest of us get. And they work a half day every day. If analysed on an appropriate 'hours worked' basis, teachers are grossly overpaid.
> 
> Instead of moaning and playing the poor mouth teachers should be thankful for the handy number that they have. And don't insult our intelligence by claiming that teaching is anything other than a handy number. Unless you're teaching in 'bandit country' and at risk of being shot, stabbed or assaulted, it's a handy number.


 

+1


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## ericsson (22 Aug 2010)

Haha completely agree with you Chrisboy! It's funny how the whole "Teachers have a cushy job" debate always circulated during the 'hard times' yet when times were good it was all "What would you want to be a teacher for?" It's funny the way life rolls...


Ericsson


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## RMCF (22 Aug 2010)

My OH is a teacher and has been for a few years, yet still puts in a lot of hours at home in preparation. Personally I wouldn't fancy her job, despite the great holidays. I like the idea of coming home from work and forgetting about it.

Having said that, I will say I think they are well paid. But after all, they have an important job. For me, you cannot put a price on good education. Its what dragged this country out of the dark ages.


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## chrisboy (22 Aug 2010)

hopalong said:


> cant believe what we pay teachers,its at max 60,000euros before allowances,and thats for primary school. see [broken link removed].  and also for principals another 42,469euros at max on top of the basic.looks like were out of control from the taoiseach pay right down.we just cant afford it.and dont bother ringing joe duffy ,he is also one of the top earners in rte who we pay for.see [broken link removed]



And judging by your punctuation, and use of capital letters, you possibly would have a lot to learn from these teachers who are so over-paid...


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## Complainer (22 Aug 2010)

Pat Bateman said:


> And don't insult our intelligence by claiming that teaching is anything other than a handy number.  Unless you're teaching in 'bandit country' and at risk of being shot, stabbed or assaulted, it's a handy number.



I'd quite like to see Pat dealing with 34 little 6-year-olds for 4.5 hours a day and see how much they can read at the end of that year.


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## Ancutza (22 Aug 2010)

> I'd quite like to see Pat dealing with 34 little 6-year-olds for 4.5  hours a day and see how much they can read at the end of that year.



ROFL at that one!  Couldn't agree more.  Good teachers would still be cheap at twice what they are currently paid IMO.  There are very few jobs as important in any civilised society.


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## Mpsox (23 Aug 2010)

Personally I know I wouldn't have the patience to deal with a room fun of "little darlings". Friend of mine is a headmaster, I remember him telling me how one of the kids once told him to f off, when he called the parents in, they said it was his own fault. As I said, I wouldn't have the patience

Having said all of that, I do think that the school year is too short, with far too many holidays, half terms, training days etc etc. Rather then worrying about what the teachers actually get paid, we should be reforming the school year so that our kids get more education.

I also think some teachers are actually underpaid. Let's remember that they are training the people who are the future of this country. Good teachers should be paid more, bad teachers should be paid less or better still sacked. Most of us on here can remember dull, uninspiring, incompentent incapable boring teachers from whom we learnt little. These should be cleared out


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## missdaisy (23 Aug 2010)

Pat Bateman said:


> And they work a half day EVERY DAY. If analysed on an appropriate 'hours worked' basis, teachers are grossly overpaid.


 
I know a lot of teachers and my sister is a teacher. While teachers may teach just over half a day they have to do a lot of class preparation aswell and actually work a full day between teaching, preparation and correcting. 

It's a tough job and I know I couldn't do it just to enjoy the long holidays.


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## MrMan (23 Aug 2010)

Pat Bateman said:


> Your sisters actually earn the equivalent of more than €35,000 per annum.  They get 2-3 months extra paid holidays that none of the rest of us get.  And they work a half day EVERY DAY.  If analysed on an appropriate 'hours worked' basis, teachers are grossly overpaid.
> 
> Instead of moaning and playing the poor mouth teachers should be thankful for the handy number that they have.  And don't insult our intelligence by claiming that teaching is anything other than a handy number.  Unless you're teaching in 'bandit country' and at risk of being shot, stabbed or assaulted, it's a handy number.


They probably work similar hours to normal jobs when you consider that they can't surf the net during work, take personal calls, chat to their colleague etc. When they are in class they are doing work until the bell rings, same can't be said for most jobs I would think.


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## truthseeker (23 Aug 2010)

MrMan said:


> They probably work similar hours to normal jobs when you consider that they can't surf the net during work, take personal calls, chat to their colleague etc. When they are in class they are doing work until the bell rings, same can't be said for most jobs I would think.


 
+1.
When you add in lesson plans, correcting homework and extra curricular activities there are hours outside of the classroom also bringing the job far more in line with 'normal' hours.

I know a couple of secondary school teachers, they are not loaded, both in fact bought affordable housing homes, so I dont think they are drowing in generous wages.


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## csirl (23 Aug 2010)

Salary scale is too long - 30k to 60k. Some teachers earn twice what others earn solely on seniority. The reality is that those on the first few points of the scale are probably underpaid and those at the top are probably overpaid. No way that any job can justify a 25 year pay scale.


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## liaconn (23 Aug 2010)

Has there not already been dozens of threads on this topic? Why start a new one?


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## Sunny (23 Aug 2010)

Threads like this are pointless. Teachers are overpaid. But so is everyone else.


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## Purple (23 Aug 2010)

I kind of agree with Sunny, we have very well paid teachers in this country, even relative to the rest of the population, but that’s not the main problem. 

The school day and the school year should not be determined by how much teachers are paid, rather it should be determined by the optimum time a child can spend learning. Over the last decade or so there have been multiple extra programmes added to the curriculum without any extra time allocated to teach them. I don’t think children can really spend any longer in a school environment each day so the best option would be shorted holidays. I also think that parent teacher meeting should be held in the evenings and in service days should be held while the children are on holidays. Secondary school teachers should have to spend the full school day on the premises; they are getting paid to be there so they should be there working. 
In my opinion most teachers work hard and put in 35-45 hours a week. Some do more and some do far less. I don’t buy the “they only work 20 hours a week” argument but I don’t buy the “It’s the most stressful job in the world and they need 2-3 months off each summer to recover” line either. Teaching doesn’t require high intelligence (I’m not saying it doesn’t require any) but it does require a particular aptitude and personality. You have to want to do it and you have to like doing it. If not it’s a life sentence for the teacher and damaging to the education of the children.

The debate about pay should not be framed solely in terms of what they deserve or don’t deserve. The state’s ability to pay also has to be taken into account. Over the last ten years there have been huge increases in funding for education but nearly all of that has gone on pay. I think that was a mistake. If more has been spend on better facilities and even more teachers (you can either have highly paid teachers or  lots of teachers, you can’t have both) then possibly we would have a better education system and less stressed teachers.


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## cork (23 Aug 2010)

I feel teachers are grossly overpaid.

They also give grinds.

How many even declare this income?

3 months holidays + Easter + Christmas.


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## liaconn (23 Aug 2010)

cork said:


> I feel teachers are grossly overpaid.
> 
> They also give grinds.
> 
> How many even declare this income? .


 

Well, if you're going to use this argument, why confine it to teachers? I would imagine undeclared income is much more pervasive in the self employed sector.


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## fizzelina (23 Aug 2010)

Plenty of people give grinds, not just teachers actually. Lots of professionals do give them but to be honest since recession hit I hear that the market has dried up considerably....


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## Purple (23 Aug 2010)

fizzelina said:


> Plenty of people give grinds, not just teachers actually. Lots of professionals do give them but to be honest since recession hit I hear that the market has dried up considerably....



Everyone should pay their taxes. Those who don't are stealing. Some tax cheats steal a large amount and some steal a small amount but that's usually down to opportunity rather than morality. The little guys think they are somehow different from the big guys but they aren't.


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## Caveat (23 Aug 2010)

Sunny said:


> Teachers are overpaid. But so is everyone else.


 
I'm bleedin' not!


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## truthseeker (23 Aug 2010)

Caveat said:


> I'm bleedin' not!


 
Im definitely not. Maybe I should start giving grinds


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## hopalong (23 Aug 2010)

as quoted "Looks like were out of control, from the taoiseach pay right down.we just cant afford it".the blog started out with remarks about the teachers pay,it is however about the civil servants on 50,000euro plus saleries.these payments are made mainly by the little people,the lower paid people,both in the civil service and public workers.they fund all these saleries,expenses etc.and really we cant afford it.


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## Sunny (23 Aug 2010)

I think we should wait till nearer the budget before the whole public v private thing starts again. We don't want to ruin it by starting it too early!


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## Purple (23 Aug 2010)

hopalong said:


> as quoted "Looks like were out of control, from the taoiseach pay right down.we just cant afford it".the blog started out with remarks about the teachers pay,it is however about the civil servants on 50,000euro plus saleries.these payments are made mainly by the little people,the lower paid people,both in the civil service and public workers.they fund all these saleries,expenses etc.and really we cant afford it.



That’s way too sweeping a statement to hold up to scrutiny. There thousands of public and civil servants on €50’000 and plenty of them give excellent value for money. Nobody can say that, en-mass, all civil and public servants are overpaid (or that those on lower incomes are under paid), there’s just far too many people doing far too many jobs to say that. What can be said is that the country can’t afford the pay bill it has but that’s a completely different point.


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## Caveat (23 Aug 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Maybe I should start giving grinds


 
If only "giving grinds" was as exciting as it teasingly suggests, I'd definitely consider it too...


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## shnaek (23 Aug 2010)

RMCF said:


> Its what dragged this country out of the dark ages.



Are we out of the dark ages?


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## Purple (23 Aug 2010)

RMCF said:


> Its what dragged this country out of the dark ages.



If teachers are responsible for the boom (as they kept telling everyone when they were looking for their massive pay increases) then how come they are not to blame for the bust?
Since it turns out there was no boom, just a bubble, will they now give the increases back?


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## Pique318 (24 Aug 2010)

Ah now Purple, giving back increases will affect the children's education, doncha know?

I love the irony of teachers (including maths teachers) using this kind of logic !

I do agree with Sunny though, let's not wear this particular topic out before we hear the budget cuts and the inevitable threats of strikes from all and sundry.


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## Concert (24 Aug 2010)

Have quite a few friends and relations who are teachers and most of them never have a positive word to say about their job, drives me mad.  They all live in beautiful homes, have the second home abroad in which they can spend their extended holiday in, unlike the rest of us who get two weeks.  Now -  some of these people are able to retire early on fat pensions, get their gratuity and I know one who  retired in May, got the gratuity and is returning to the school on a part time basis to earn more money.  Absolutely disgraceful.


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## truthseeker (24 Aug 2010)

Caveat said:


> If only "giving grinds" was as exciting as it teasingly suggests, I'd definitely consider it too...


 
Ah, your thinking of 'doing grinds' which is a completely different activity - doesnt pay as well at all


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## Purple (24 Aug 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Ah, your thinking of 'doing grinds' which is a completely different activity - doesnt pay as well at all


 I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject


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## Latrade (24 Aug 2010)

flahers2 said:


> Have quite a few friends and relations who are teachers and most of them never have a positive word to say about their job, drives me mad. They all live in beautiful homes, have the second home abroad in which they can spend their extended holiday in, unlike the rest of us who get two weeks. Now - some of these people are able to retire early on fat pensions, get their gratuity and I know one who retired in May, got the gratuity and is returning to the school on a part time basis to earn more money. Absolutely disgraceful.


 
Take out "teacher" and insert electrician, builder, plumber, taxi driver, etc during the good years.

And, if it were such a sweet existence, how come you didn't/don't get on the gravy train?


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## liaconn (24 Aug 2010)

flahers2 said:


> Have quite a few friends and relations who are teachers and most of them never have a positive word to say about their job, drives me mad. They all live in beautiful homes, have the second home abroad in which they can spend their extended holiday in, unlike the rest of us who get two weeks. Now - some of these people are able to retire early on fat pensions, get their gratuity and I know one who retired in May, got the gratuity and is returning to the school on a part time basis to earn more money. Absolutely disgraceful.


 
You know lots of teachers and they all have fabulous houses and second homes abroad??  How strange. I know lots of teachers who have very ordinary houses and go on package holidays like the rest of us.


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## Purple (24 Aug 2010)

liaconn said:


> You know lots of teachers and they all have fabulous houses and second homes abroad??  How strange. I know lots of teachers who have very ordinary houses and go on package holidays like the rest of us.


 I don't go on package holidays


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## liaconn (24 Aug 2010)

Yes, but you're not like the rest of us.


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## Purple (24 Aug 2010)

liaconn said:


> Yes, but you're not like the rest of us.



How should I take that comment?


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## demoivre (24 Aug 2010)

Purple said:


> How should I take that comment?



Like the rest of us.


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## Caveat (24 Aug 2010)

Where do packages go on holidays anyway? Some sort of luxury clearing depot with fancy chrome scales and where the bubble wrap pockets are filled with perfume or something?


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## ice (24 Aug 2010)

What should they be paid then ???

As someone else pointed out the scale is too wide.

Ironically its the newer teachers who tend to be 'better'. More enthusiastic, full of energy. The older ones who are there 20 years plus are just sick to the back teeth of it.
I know thats a gross generalisation but you know what I mean.

We can't expect them to work for 35K pro rata salary.....who would work for this? Its the kind of job that surely would become borning and there is not much career development. 

We need to overhaul the system. Teachers perhaps paid lower salaries but paid bonus on their performance or something like that.

Bad teachers (and there are many!)need to be held to account


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## aonfocaleile (24 Aug 2010)

As an ex-teacher myself, I know loads of teachers! Plenty of them put in lots of extra hours on planning, correction, training teams etc. Plenty others don't do anything of the sort. Sweeping generalisations such as that made by the OP are ridiculous and ill-informed. That said,  it always irks me a bit when my teacher mates are shocked and horrified that I usually work until after 7 at night. I don't think many appreciate the genuinely short hours they have to spend in the classroom. And I might be putting my hand out to be slapped here, but I agree that in comparison to other professions, teachers do a disproportionate amount of complaining about their jobs. It seems to be a bit of a culture within teaching.   People should also rememember however that its tough for teachers as well at the moment. For recent graduates, full time jobs are in very short supply. The most a lot can hope for is a temporary position such as maternity leave cover. I'm the last person in the world who'll defend the teachers of Ireland but we should recall the high leaving cert points necessary for entry to primary teaching. Anyone who can score nearly 500 points is no slacker in my view and certainly not after the soft option.


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## Concert (24 Aug 2010)

Latrade said:


> Take out "teacher" and insert electrician, builder, plumber, taxi driver, etc during the good years.
> 
> And, if it were such a sweet existence, how come you didn't/don't get on the gravy train?


 
I work as a nurse and in my opinion do a far more difficult job in a very busy Dublin hospital.  What I work at is irrelevent to the discussion.


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## Sunny (24 Aug 2010)

flahers2 said:


> I work as a nurse and in my opinion do a far more difficult job in a very busy Dublin hospital.  What I work at is irrelevent to the discussion.



Nurses are extremely well paid compared to international standards. And some of them are as bad at their job as some teachers are.


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## ajapale (24 Aug 2010)

This tiresome thread is now closed.


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