# Know As You Go



## fjgh15 (26 Aug 2011)

Most of us, these days, whether on our land line, or mobile, have a package so that some of our calls are covered. It might be all calls to landlines in Ireland, or all calls to the same network from our mobile. By and large these packages are very useful, *if* you can stay within the rules and mostly operate within your package. The problem is that often, you can't know, at the time of making the call, whether it's covered by your package or not and the first you know of it is when you have to pay the bill, or find all your credit gone, or enormously depleted. To me this seems unfair. I think it should be at least made clear, when I'm making the call, whether it's part of my plan or not.

  At the moment, when you make a call from an Irish network mobile, there is an indication, in some cases, of whether you will pay extra or not. For example, if I have an 086 number with O2 and I am calling another 086 number which has migrated to a different mobile company, there is a slight "beep" just before the number rings. If, however, I am calling, from the same 086 O2 phone, an 087 number, (or 085, 083 etc) I get no indication of whether this call is covered or not, even if it has migrated to O2.

  I think it should be possible that the caller is let know, before the call commences, whether it's covered in their package, or not. Simply replace the "beep" with an announcement saying "Free" or "Charged" or whatever format would let the caller know what the hell it is that he's doing. This should be applied to all calls made, whether from a land line or a mobile phone.

  The more I think about it the more unfair it seems to me that you cannot know, when making a phone call, whether you're paying extra for it or not.

  I have contacted both Comreg and the Dept of Communications about this and the people I spoke to had never heard of such an idea before, but both admired it greatly as a service to consumers. The extent of Comreg's powers is that if enough people mention the same idea to them within a certain amount of time, they will recommend it to the different phone companies.

  I cannot see any phone company or service provider jumping on this willingly or chomping at the bit to implement it. It would only work properly if all companies and service providers implemented it anyway.

  I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or impressions on this idea, and please, if anyone thinks well of it, do contact Comreg on 018049600, and/or the Department of Communications on 016782000.

  [FONT=&quot]I hope I've explained my idea well enough but would welcome any questions.[/FONT]


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## JoeB (26 Aug 2011)

is it not that you hear a beep when you are calling a phone on a different network, .. so beep = charged, and no beep = same network, so no charge? (in other words the phone knows about netwrok switches.. 086 to 086 can either be a free call, or a charged call, .. depending on whether the numbers have ported to different networks.)


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## fjgh15 (26 Aug 2011)

JoeBallantin said:


> is it not that you hear a beep when you are calling a phone on a different network, .. so beep = charged, and no beep = same network, so no charge? (in other words the phone knows about netwrok switches.. 086 to 086 can either be a free call, or a charged call, .. depending on whether the numbers have ported to different networks.)


Hi Joe - the beep, as explained to me by O2, merely alerts you that the number you are calling has migrated from the network you are on to a different network. Whether or not you are charged for the call depends on your package details.
What do you think of my idea, though?


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## Sue Ellen (27 Aug 2011)

fjgh15 said:


> What do you think of my idea, though?



Hi,

I think your idea is excellent and just wonder if it is actually physically/technically possible to achieve this?  

I have on a number of occasions brought Vodafone to task for what I call their sneaky tactics.  Not necessarily on calls but on changing charges/procedures and not notifying people in their T/Cs.  I would immediately point out that its not about the money which can be quite small in some cases but about the manner in which they go about making these changes.


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## d2x2 (27 Aug 2011)

I'm with OP on this and see no reason this cant be done. 1) when I use 13434.ie they are able to tell me how much per minute the call will cost as soon as I dial the number 2) o2 are able to beep, or afterwards tell me when I have gone over my allowance. Obviously operators can have the info but dont want users to know.


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## JoeB (27 Aug 2011)

not really. I think the beep more or less performs this function now. It tells you if the phone you're calling is on a different network, and that's usually enough to let you know if the call is chargable or not. (but the beep is quite, and can easily be missed on poor quality connections, so it's not great. It should be possible to text a number to your operator to find out what network the number is on... that can be done, I just can't remember how.

Billing doesn't take place instantly, so the idea of a 100% accurate beep, for all charged calls, is not feasible in my view. A call made at 2pm may not be available to the billing system till 2.15pm... and so beeps given between 2.00pm and 2.15pm could be wrong. .. in other words, your free call allowance may be used up but the beep sytstem can't know until after the billing system does... at or after 2.15pm, despite running out of free calls at 2.00pm.


I still think the billing systems aren't great, and there are legitimate complaints. If limits apply to a service it should be possible to find out how much of your limit has been used, in close to real time. The 'unlimited' services with clear limits are just silly in my view... it's only in the telecommunications industry that you can describe products as 'unlimited' despite applying clear limits.


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## fjgh15 (27 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the replies and the ideas. I do appreciate all of them. 
*JoeBallantin* - isn't it amazing how if you are on a Pay As You Go phone that they know exactly how much credit you have at all times, especially when you've none left. And they can also take into account if you've topped up by whatever amount they set to get the 30 days free calls and texts to your own network, and they instantly know when the 30 days are up and start charging you for those calls again?
If that is possible, in real time, surely my idea or very similar to it should also be possible? 
I think it is only fair that you know what you're paying for as you're doing it. What do you think?


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## JoeB (29 Aug 2011)

Well, your suggestion is to have someone say 'Free' or 'Charged' at the start of each call. It does sound pretty good, and it should be done. 

Your point about Pay as you Go knowing when your credit runs out, in real time is a good one.

There will always be a problem if a call changes from a free call to a charged call during the call,.. but this is a pretty minor problem, and maybe a voice could come on saying 'now charged'.

I think it's too  difficult with the various types of billing in use. 

Overall I don't think there's the demand for it., and many people would want to turn it off. It should be possible to make a free call to check what network a mobile is on, or to send a free text. That can be done as far as I know.

I think limits should be clearly identified,.. so when you are approaching your limit, of either calls or data, that some indication is given, and that you don't just start getting charged where previously it was free, or within your limit.


COMREG are the people to help you with this, you could try contacting them.


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## fjgh15 (30 Aug 2011)

*JoeBallantin* - I did talk to Comreg about this and the extent of their powers is that if enough people mention the same idea to them within a certain amount of time - they can recommend it to the phone service providers, nothing more than that, unfortunately. 
I also contacted the Dept. of Communications about it and am told that the idea will be shown to the minister and that I will be contacted back.
If you think well of the idea, and you seem to, could you, and anybody else, please contact Comreg on 018049600, and/or the Department of Communications on 016782000.


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## JoeB (30 Aug 2011)

Well, in my opinion that's an inappropriate response from COMREG. Are you saying that it's not possible for you to tell if you're going to be charged or not, and COMREG are happy with that situation? You can only find out how calls are charged after you have made them?

I think COMREG either got more information from you, or that they should have got more information from you, before saying they can do nothing. If your operators billing system is secret then something should be done.


I am effectively barred from both COMREG and the Dept. of Comms, .. due to making a complaint about the fact that our government is allowing 74 private companies to break both Irish and EU law, and that that situation has gone on for nine years. They refuse to deal with acknowledged lawbreaking stretching over nine years.. so they will hardly help you with this. That's my opinion.


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