# AIB in deal with David Hall's Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation



## Brendan Burgess

David Hall has been tweeting about some big deal he is announcing tomorrow 



> *David         Hall* ‏@*davidhall75*       working on a new initiative to       help distressed mortgage holders with @*GTCost* & @*arthurmullan* which has       been finalised.Details on Monday






> *David Hall*     ‏@*davidhall75* https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/396622278135656448                         We can talk about this  mortgage crisis for the next few years or we can move to the next level  & make an effort to solve it.Monday it begins




He is having a big media event tomorrow: 



> Media Notice
> 
> David Hall and the Board of the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation  (IMHO) invite you to attend an important media briefing in Buswells  Hotel on Monday next at 10.30 am.
> At the briefing, details will  be revealed concerning a significant  initiative in assisting homeowners who find themselves in mortgage  difficulty. This should be of great interest to the large numbers of  people who find themselves in this position.
> 
> What: IMHO press conference
> Where: Buswells Hotel, Dublin
> When: Monday Nov 4
> Photographs: 10.05 am
> Press briefing: 10.30 am


Niall Brady reports in today's Sunday Times that it is with AIB. 



> AIB is engaging the IMHO to provide independent debt advice  to the 10% of its customers who are in mortgage arrears.
> 
> ...David Hall's organisation will act as mediator between AIB and customers seeking a permanent restructuring of their mortgages. The bank is expected to pay for the advice provided


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## Brendan Burgess

Fair play to David Hall for pulling this off. 

I have tried to engage with the lenders and the IBF  on issues such as producing a protocol for unsustainable mortgages and I have got absolutely nowhere. I wasn't even looking for payment!  I must revisit my strategy - it may be more effective to rant and rave rather than to be reasonable and rational.

It seems that David Hall is now going to get paid for representing AIB borrowers in arrears.  This is a very welcome development assuming he retains his independence. They will have to publish their Memorandum of Understanding with AIB, so that borrowers using their service know what the ground rules are. 

It probably makes sense for AIB as well. It's much better to pay David Hall to do this than to pay a Personal Insolvency Practitioner. 

It will be interesting to see how they deal with strategic defaulters.  As the Sunday Times reports: 



> Hall clashed with AIB's Chief Executive in August after Duffy claimed that 20% of customers in arrears were strategic defaulters.
> 
> "If 20% are allegedly strategic defaulters, why has AIB not sorted out the other 80%" Hall said at the time?



"Clashed with AIB" is a bit of an understatement. He accused the AIB Chief Executive of lying 






> *David Hall*     ‏@*davidhall75*
> 
> Mr. Duffy while you were  cleverly lying about strategic default numbers your own 90+ arrears  figures went up by 2%! Nat avg 2 qrt .4%!!!!


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## Brendan Burgess

I wonder will he feature AIB's repossessions on his online register of repossessed homes?


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## Brendan Burgess

I was at the press conference this morning, and here are the highlights. 

AIB will be giving the IMHO €150,000 to run a pilot project for 6 months. 

Borrowers who wish to get advice and representation can go to the IMHO. 

The IMHO will not be changing their procedures or policies or attitudes in any way. 

But the IMHO will be able to employ 5 new  people to provide advice over the phone and in person.

They expect to do around 300 - 400 deals a month through this service.

If demand is higher than expected, AIB will allocate more money to it.

None of the directors of IMHO will be receiving any fees, salaries or expenses. 

AIB won't have any influence at all on the way IMHO sets up this service.

The work of IMHO in relation to customers of other banks won't be affected in any way. 

AIB will be announcing details of a new split mortgage product in about two weeks' time.


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## Brendan Burgess

*NEW INITIATIVE TO ASSIST HOMEOWNERS IN DIFFICULTY*​​ The  Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation (IMHO) in conjunction with AIB  Group (which includes EBS and Haven) today announces an upcoming  initiative offering homeowners in difficulty with their mortgage  repayments the option to avail of an independent third party facilitator  to advise and engage with AIB Group on their behalf. The initiative  will be available free of charge to all AIB Group residential mortgage  customers who wish to avail of the service.                          

Mortgage  holders in difficulty will be provided by the IMHO with a designated  point of contact where they will be assisted with and advised on the  completion of a Standard Financial Statement (SFS) which is a key  component for determining the most suitable solution for the resolution  of the arrears. This assistance will be provided over the phone, online  or in person. All advice will be supplied on a fully independent basis  by the IMHO and a dedicated group of advisers from the IMHO will operate  the initiative for AIB Group customers. The IMHO will then submit the  relevant information to a designated team in the AIB Group arrears  support unit for consideration and agreement of next steps                         

This  service is being offered as an alternative way for AIB Group homeowners  in difficulty to engage with the bank and will operate alongside AIB’s  existing mortgage arrears solutions channels. The IMHO’s ongoing advice  and services to customers of other institutions will remain unchanged.                         

_Director of the IMHO, David Hall said: “_This  is a ground breaking initiative to ensure customers are given access to  independent advice and representation in dealing with AIB, EBS and  Haven. The cost of this service is grant aided by AIB Group but  independently provided, staffed and managed by IMHO. Customers of AIB  Group who are experiencing difficulty paying their mortgage will have  the benefit of free and independent professional advice to help them  engage with AIB Group and reach a sustainable solution.                         

“The  IMHO has successfully concluded many agreements with AIB Group in the  past year and this joint initiative is a recognition of the success that  can be achieved. The IMHO believes that this initiativerepresents a  wonderful opportunity to help a larger number of borrowers who are in  arrears.                         

“It  is important that borrowers are aware that the new code of conduct in  mortgage arrears, which was launched in July 2013, compels banks to take  action against borrowers who have not engaged. This initiative aims to  help those who are reluctant to engage with the banks. The enormous  pressure on borrowers who are in trouble frequently leads to a fear of  dealing with financial institutions. We anticipate that this unique  arrangement will help to drastically reduce that pressure and that  fear.”                         
Head  of the Financial Solutions Group at AIB, Brendan O’Connor said: “We  strongly welcome this joint initiative with the IMHO that opens an  important additional engagement and resolution channel for our mortgage  customers in difficulty. Engagement is a crucial part of the arrears  resolution process and we view this initiative as an important  additional avenue available to customers in difficulty. We recognise  that some of our customers are reluctant to deal with the bank directly  and view thisinitiative as a means for people to seek free help and  advice from an independent party as part of the resolution process.”                             

                                   This free of charge initiative will be operational from with further information available on the IMHO website atwww.mortgageholders.ie


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## Brendan Burgess

As a result of questions I asked, we got the following information 

AIB will not be changing its practices or policies in any way.

Borrowers who use the IMHO service won't be getting any better deals than they would get by going directly. (But they would be better informed and empowered) 

AIB said it was targeted at the 8,000 to 10,000 borrowers in arrears who  have not submitted Standard Financial Statements.  But anyone can go to  IMHO for advice. 

IMHO has been getting deals for people over the past 12 months including debt write down and debt write off where the home is voluntarily surrendered. 

I asked about people who had been through MARP and the MARP appeal who  had been told to surrender their home. They can go to the IMHO but AIB  won't be changing their decision unless there is some significant new  information disclosed.  It's not a second bite at the cherry.

I asked AIB if they would fund MABS to do such work and Brendan O'Connor from AIB said that they are open to working with anyone who can help them get in Standard Financial Statements.

Where homes are voluntarily surrendered, the IMHO will not be featuring them on their register of repossessed properties. Where AIB repossesses a property against the borrower's wishes, the property will be featured.  The IMHO is sorting  out a few Data Protection issues and will then go live with the register.


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## Brendan Burgess

So what are the implications for AIB borrowers? 

You should use the IMHO  for advice and to represent your interests. 

They will presumably give you good advice and  they will help you complete the SFS. 

AS IMHO will have a dedicated division with the AIB arrears unit, they will presumably be able to get decisions quicker. 

It's probably a bit like a mortgage broker, I suspect that IMRO will get you a better deal that you would get by going directly. 

It depends on how busy IMRO gets.  It's hard to see 5 advisors putting through 400 deals a month.


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## RainyDay

Brendan Burgess said:


> I asked AIB if they would fund MABS to do such work and Brendan O'Connor from AIB said that they are open to working with anyone who can help them get in Standard Financial Statements.


This is an interesting point. Do AIB have to tender all contracts? I recall that Anglo/IBRC used to publish some tenders on etenders.gov.ie;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/p...D=61758&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/p...ID=9595&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

How did AIB come to pick IMHO as their preferred partner for this? Should they not have tendered and come up with the best value provider - perhaps somebody who has experienced staff already in place?


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Rainyday

I suggested to AIB that MABS would have been a much better partner with 60 offices around the country and they replied that they had been approached by IMHO and so dealt with them. But they are open to doing similar deals with other groups, including MABS.

I don't think that AIB has to put stuff out to tender.


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## Delboy

I thought all State run organisations had to go the tender route!!!


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## Brendan Burgess

A good summary of it from Sinéad Ryan in the Indo online

*Sinead Ryan: Mortgage holders' body and AIB an unlikely marriage but a good start*


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## WizardDr

Dealing with mortgage arrears on behalf of a number of people, the common issue is huge distress even where I can see fairly straight forward solutions.

What it has told me is that many people cannot deal with this themselves and need assistance. 

A third party is able to strip away the emotion and the baggage and get the deal done.

I am of the view that the ISI is not a workable situation for many. And many postings here confirm that.


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## Bronte

Brendan Burgess said:


> AIB said it was targeted at the 8,000 to 10,000 borrowers in arrears who have not submitted Standard Financial Statements. But anyone can go to IMHO for advice.
> 
> .


 
A fee if 150K works out at 15 Euro per borrower who has not completed the SFS. 

They are hiring 5 people to do the actual talking to borrowers, who by the fact they have not managed to fill out a SFS will be very tricky people to deal with, no way does it make sense at 15 Euro per person.

Even if you take the figure of 400 people a month, for 6 months, that's 2400 people, the fee works out at 62 Euro per person. It could work out very cheap for AIB if it gets the borrowers to engage. 

It's about 92 people to process a week, divided by 5 people, makes 18 cases per worker a week

The costs for AIB trying to tackle any one of the non engaging borrowers in a legal way is obviously not working. Why is that, wasn't the new insolvency service meant to sort all this out. Another white elephant it seems to be. I pity the poor PIP's who have paid for insurance and training in the hope of getting a lot of business. 

How do the directors of IMHO get paid?

It is a great idea though for stressed borrowers to have somebody independant to help them. And fair play to David Hall on this. It's amazing that Mabs is not involved, when this area is precisely their area of expertise.


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## RainyDay

Bronte said:


> A fee if 150K works out at 15 Euro per borrower who has not completed the SFS.
> 
> They are hiring 5 people to do the actual talking to borrowers, who by the fact they have not managed to fill out a SFS will be very tricky people to deal with, no way does it make sense at 15 Euro per person.



Good points - will five people (yet to be recruited, willing to take on a 6-month contract with no ongoing commitment, currently with no office or phone or laptop or email or website or safety statement or ....) in a startup environment be able to do meaningful work to close deals?


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## ClaireM

Bronte said:


> It is a great idea though for stressed borrowers to have somebody independant to help them. And fair play to David Hall on this. It's amazing that Mabs is not involved, when this area is precisely their area of expertise.



MABS already do this for anyone with any bank. Help with an SFS, deal with the bank etc

Maybe this is just an alternative?


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## ang1170

Delboy said:


> I thought all State run organisations had to go the tender route!!!


 
They're State owned (almost!), not State-run. They're free to do business in any way they like (probably why they got into such a mess in the first place....).


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## Bronte

ClaireM said:


> MABS already do this for anyone with any bank. Help with an SFS, deal with the bank etc
> 
> Maybe this is just an alternative?


 

But why would you need an altrernative if Mabs will do it for free?  Unless Mabs is not working, or the banks will not do deals with Mabs?


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## ClaireM

Bronte said:


> But why would you need an altrernative if Mabs will do it for free?  Unless Mabs is not working, or the banks will not do deals with Mabs?



I think people have different perceptions of different organisations. People who are not willing to go to MABS might be willing to go to David Hall.

I think AIB just want people in the process regardless of who facilitates.


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## wbbs

MABS won't really try and do a 'deal' as most people see it for you.  They will help you fill the SFS (maybe, some offices refer you back to your own bank who should have staff to help you deal with it) and they will write to all your creditors and probably get agreement from all them to apportion any excess income  but that is about as far as they will go.  Actually negotiating what David Hall  would call a deal is not really what they would do to best of my knowledge.

Now I do think they actually should have been given this role but for whatever reason they were not.


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## Kine

Having someone to negotiate a deal on your behald still doesn't mean the banks are willing to do them!


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## Bronte

The head of AIB gave a fascinating interview last Monday, I think it was Sean O' Rourke.  He mentioned that if the scheme with the consumer champion David Hall works he will have any amount of money to continue funding this new option.  

I recommend people listen to the interview, would be interested in people's view of the AIB chief.


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