# Suicidal over small debt



## dariuscork (19 Jul 2011)

A friend of mine has a personal loan for 13 k with B.O.I. but lost their job last year and could not keep up the payments, they have now received a horrible threatning letter from the banks solicitor stating if they dont pay the full amount in 7 days that court proceedings will commence with added legal costs and upon securing judgment wll be published in Stubbs Gazette and will be enforced by the Sheriff!!!
Please give advice as last night my friend was so distraught that I was genuinely worried for their wellbeing.


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## dariuscork (19 Jul 2011)

Forgot to say the loan was for a car which they had to sell at a major loss as they could not afford to keep it and unfortunately that money is gone as well.


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## horusd (19 Jul 2011)

Advise your friend to contact MAB's and  for free legal advice. The letter they received sounds like a standard one. Not wanting to downplay the problem, but your friend seems to be over-reacting to the seriousness of the debt relative to it's importance in the big scheme of things. Can they avail of some free counselling, even the Samaritians would help, so they can get some perspective on the problem. Dealing with the problem will help to reduce the anxiety. Have they spoken to their Doctor?


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## Sunny (19 Jul 2011)

Has he talked to the bank and explained the situation? There is a code of conduct that banks have to follow. No bank is allowed to pressurise someone into feeling suicidal. As Horusd says, your friend should talk to someone to help them get some prespective.


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## Guest105 (28 Jul 2011)

dariuscork said:


> Please give advice as last night my friend was so distraught that I was genuinely worried for their wellbeing.


 

Some people cannot cope very well with threatening letters, it totally freaks them out and they are unable to think or act in a rational manner.  It is vital your friend is supported and directed towards people or agencies that can help them.


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## dewdrop (28 Jul 2011)

Would definitely recommend friend calls to the bank..maybe he might find this difficult and might agree for someone, say yourself, to accompany him. As already said this letter is probably a standard type but ideally he should try and get some agreement with the bank.


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## zen (28 Jul 2011)

whos sending the banks threatning letters for their defaults......?No one, because we bailed them out with our tax money. So wheres is our bailout when WE get into trouble!? something is going to pop in this country. 
I'd send a letter back to them saying you paid them via the bailout with the electronically created money that never existed for them to loan in the first place.  Tell your friend to relax, they always send letters like that.


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## onq (28 Jul 2011)

Terrible to see this and I know exactly how your friend must feel.

As Zen says, something is going to pop in this country.

The banks aren't even lending into the economy.

They are actually shrinking it more and more.

They are black holes, not banks.

ONQ.


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## zen (28 Jul 2011)

[broken link removed]


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## frostie (8 Aug 2011)

dariuscork said:


> A friend of mine has a personal loan for 13 k with B.O.I. but lost their job last year and could not keep up the payments, they have now received a horrible threatning letter from the banks solicitor stating if they dont pay the full amount in 7 days that court proceedings will commence with added legal costs and upon securing judgment wll be published in Stubbs Gazette and will be enforced by the Sheriff!!!
> Please give advice as last night my friend was so distraught that I was genuinely worried for their wellbeing.



First of all, tell your friend not to panic - there is still no judgement in place from the court. These are harsh, but standard letters. As long as when the court date comes up, your friend can show a statement of means, showing what they reasonably afford to repay on a monthly basis, the judge should award an instalment order to that effect. If your friend does not turn up to the court date, the judge may award the full amount. Make sure they turn up to acknowledge the debt and show they are willing to try an make repayments. Also make sure that it's a genuine offer of repayment and that your friend is not promising more than they can afford. 

Before it gets there though, you could try doing this with the bank or it's solicitor before it even gets to court, and enter into a repayment agreement without the legal expenses. Keep a copy of the offer you make in writing, as this will help later on if the offer is not accepted.

Another thing to check out - is there any payment protection insurance on the loan, would this have covered your friend through losing their job - if not, it has possibly been mis-sold - something else which could help down the line.

w w w . f r o s t . i e


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## Gekko (8 Aug 2011)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=143928

Check out the above thread.  It sets out the procedure for court cases in relation to personal debt.

The advice reflected in the thread appears to be at odds with frostie's advice.  He/she appears to recommend attending court for a judgement.  The consensus in the above thread is not to attend court unless you dispute the underlying debt.


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## frostie (8 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=143928
> 
> Check out the above thread.  It sets out the procedure for court cases in relation to personal debt.
> 
> The advice reflected in the thread appears to be at odds with frostie's advice.  He/she appears to recommend attending court for a judgement.  The consensus in the above thread is not to attend court unless you dispute the underlying debt.



The reason being is that it hasn't got to that stage yet. If an agreement can be reached regarding the repayment before it goes to court, the creditor may still continue to get the judgement and then the instalment order. It is worthwhile submitting the statement of affairs to the creditor beforehand, and also to the court. Otherwise the court may award the amount in full, or at a much higher rate than the person can afford. It can be changed by way of a variation, but ultimately this is also avoidable with the judges and creditors consent to accept the amount the person can reasonably afford to offer.

If the order of the court is not adhered to, the debtor could then face prison - not for non-payment, but for contempt of court.


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## Gekko (8 Aug 2011)

frostie said:


> As long as when the court date comes up, your friend can show a statement of means, showing what they reasonably afford to repay on a monthly basis, the judge should award an instalment order to that effect. If your friend does not turn up to the court date, the judge may award the full amount. Make sure they turn up to acknowledge the debt and show they are willing to try an make repayments.


 


Gekko said:


> He/she appears to recommend attending court for a judgement. The consensus in the above thread is not to attend court unless you dispute the underlying debt.


 


frostie said:


> The reason being is that it hasn't got to that stage yet. If an agreement can be reached regarding the repayment before it goes to court, the creditor may still continue to get the judgement and then the instalment order. It is worthwhile submitting the statement of affairs to the creditor beforehand, and also to the court


 
Shouldn't the individual allow the judgement to be granted and then attend court to formalise the repayment arrangement?


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## frostie (9 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> Shouldn't the individual allow the judgement to be granted and then attend court to formalise the repayment arrangement?


It's very foolish not to attend the court - the court can award an instalment order at the same time as they grant the judgement, and they regularly do so, particularly when you don't show up to plead your case. There is also the possibility that the plaintiffs solicitor does not show up (it may be struck out, but can be represented) at which stage you will get an opportunity to accept liability for the debt and put forward your statement of affairs and repayment proposals. It is always in your interest to make an appearance.


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## Gekko (9 Aug 2011)

frostie said:


> It's very foolish not to attend the court - the court can award an instalment order at the same time as they grant the judgement, and they regularly do so, particularly when you don't show up to plead your case. There is also the possibility that the plaintiffs solicitor does not show up (it may be struck out, but can be represented) at which stage you will get an opportunity to accept liability for the debt and put forward your statement of affairs and repayment proposals. It is always in your interest to make an appearance.


 
Your post should be integrated into the other thread I was referring to as within that thread people are advised not to attend.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Aug 2011)

I have copied frostie's comments to the Key Post for a response by Time. 

Brendan


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## Time (9 Aug 2011)

Not true. The court has no absolutely jurisdiction to grant an  instalment order at the time of the initial judgement. All it can do is  grant a  judgement and if the creditor wants an instalment order it can  do so by issuing the appropriate summons. The instalment order is to  enforce the judgement. In any event the High Court and Circuit Court  have no legal powers to grant instalment orders at all. That is the  District Courts role solely.

Attending summary judgement hearings where there is no viable defence  only seeks to increase costs which is not advisable. If you owe the  money send the court and solicitor for the creditor a note saying you  consent to judgement. This saves costs.


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## Gekko (9 Aug 2011)

Time said:


> Not true. The court has no absolutely jurisdiction to grant an instalment order at the time of the initial judgement. All it can do is grant a judgement and if the creditor wants an instalment order it can do so by issuing the appropriate summons. The instalment order is to enforce the judgement. In any event the High Court and Circuit Court have no legal powers to grant instalment orders at all. That is the District Courts role solely.
> 
> Attending summary judgement hearings where there is no viable defence only seeks to increase costs which is not advisable. If you owe the money send the court and solicitor for the creditor a note saying you consent to judgement. This saves costs.


 
Thanks, Time.

frostie, would you care to respond?  You've put yourself out there as an expert in this field but your advice appears to be at odds with Time's.


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## frostie (9 Aug 2011)

Time said:


> Not true. The court has no absolutely jurisdiction to grant an  instalment order at the time of the initial judgement. All it can do is  grant a  judgement and if the creditor wants an instalment order it can  do so by issuing the appropriate summons. The instalment order is to  enforce the judgement. In any event the High Court and Circuit Court  have no legal powers to grant instalment orders at all. That is the  District Courts role solely.
> 
> Attending summary judgement hearings where there is no viable defence  only seeks to increase costs which is not advisable. If you owe the  money send the court and solicitor for the creditor a note saying you  consent to judgement. This saves costs.



What I am saying is that we have seen this happen before, with a number of own clients, where a judgement hearing has resulted in an instalment order being issued against the debtor at the same time. Not always, granted, but when it did happen, it was when the debtor had not attended. I can actually comment at first hand on this - it also happened to me about ten years ago - I ended up with an instalment order of my own I couldn't afford, but the variation order was fine afterwards. I appreciate what you are saying about the process is correct, but I would always advise the person to attend, as after my own experience, I do not like to leave anything to chance. It's my opinion that it's better to be safwe than sorry.


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## csirl (9 Aug 2011)

Op, calm your friend down and tell him not to panic. It will still be a while before it gets to court. He should make an appointment to see the bank and open up some dialogue with them. He should explain his circumstances and bring supporting evidence if he has it. As said by another poster - if he's uncomfortable in such circumstances, he should bring a friend along for support. The important thing is to keep up constructive dialogue with the bank and to be seen to be making an effort. The worst thing he can do is bury his head in the sand and not respond.

I do agree with Frostie re: court appearances. If you are summonses to appear in court for a judgement motion, you should always appear. It is always better to have any Orders made by consent - which can only happen if you appear (or a legal professional does on your behalf). On the other thread, posters alluded to the fact that you should not contest a judgement if you genuinely owe the money - this advice is correct, you are wasting your time and racking up costs. However, you are better attending and confirming you do owe the money - and you can do this in person.



> Not true. The court has no absolutely jurisdiction to grant an instalment order at the time of the initial judgement. All it can do is grant a judgement and if the creditor wants an instalment order it can do so by issuing the appropriate summons. The instalment order is to enforce the judgement. In any event the High Court and Circuit Court have no legal powers to grant instalment orders at all. That is the District Courts role solely


 
The High Court can and does issue Orders which provide for payments in installments. Usually where the case is settled at or just before hearing and where both parties consent and submit terms to the Court for inclusion in the final Order. Can also be included in Judgement Orders by consent i.e. where Judge Orders that the money is owed and both parties ask that the Order specifies agreed payments in installments.


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