# always skint at end of the Month



## NatNif (20 May 2008)

Age: 32
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 29

Annual gross income from employment or profession: 70000
Annual gross income of spouse: 55000

Type of employment: 
I am a Consultant
Spouse is Public Sector

In general are you spending more than you earn or are you saving? 

Rough estimate of value of home 450000
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: 330000
*What interest rate are you paying? 4.75*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
CU Loan of 12000
CC 1000

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? Mostly yes
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? 1000

Savings and investments: No Savings

Do you have a pension scheme? I dont, spouse does with Civil service pension

Do you own any investment or other property? No

Ages of children: None

Life insurance: Yes €30 per month

Utilities:
Gas ave €100pm
ESB 


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you? *
We seem to be struggling every month with the bills. the biggest problem is that i try to save money but the OH spends more than they earn. I have tried talking to them abiout this but its is very difficult to broach the subject.


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## eileen alana (20 May 2008)

MABS, they are very good at giving advice about budgeting and managing your money


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## NatNif (20 May 2008)

Hi Eileen,

thanks for the reply. I have suggested this to the OH and she is unwilling to go.

I have done up a spreadsheet of all our monthly expenses. We do keep seperate accounts and the OH is nearly always short and i ahve to carry the shortfall which in turn leaves me skint every month.

My expenses are the following every month
Mortgage 1387.43, 
Life assurance 28.49,
Phone 85.00,
House Insurance 26.25
TV Licence 13.75
Gas 100.00
Electricity100.00
Holiday Budget 600.00
House Maintaineance 166.67
Public transport 450.00
Card duty 5
Food 178

The wife has a car and the expenses associated with that are approx as i don't know for sure as regards petrol but i pay the insurance, tax and servicing etc.
Car Insurance 33.00
Car Service 15.00
Food 200.00
Car Tax 37.50
Car Maintaineance 41.67
Card duty 5
Petrol 300.00
CU Loan 325.00
VHI 57.48


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## Satanta (20 May 2008)

You have a combined income of €125k. 

You have unsecured debt of €13k and mortgage debt of €330,000. You'd need to provide a little more information (term, monthly payments, rates, etc.) to get any meaningful feedback on these.

From the (limited) information provided, you seem to have the income to manage that level of debt. It seems to be lifestyle spending which is causing the problem. If you read through some of the many threads in the money makeover section you'll find a lot of advice which might be of benefit to your situation (e.g. spending diary to see where your money is actually going).

Edit: Posted before the OP replied.

In the above costs the thing that immediatly jumps out is the €600 p/m (€7,200 p/annum) holiday budget. This seems one area where savings can certainly be made (if required - budget holidays can be just as much fun and there are plenty of bargains out there).
The phone cost of €85 p/m also seems a little high, but not knowing the details (required for work etc. etc.) hard to comment on this.
The public transport cost of €450 p/m (€5,400 p/annum) also seems on the high side. Are you / Can you avail of an annual tickets (gaining tax relief on the purchase)?

There is no allowance in the above budget for entertainment (e.g. pubs, clubs, cinema etc.). There's also no mention of costs associated with clothes, yet it details a small amount against card duty. In order for a budget to be effective, it needs to be very accurate (down to the nearest euro). The devil is in the detail. Everything from the odd packet of cigarettes on a Saturday night to the new pair of shoes for a holiday.


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## NatNif (20 May 2008)

Hi Satanta,

I have been looking at this site for a while and have gone through prettty much all the budgeting posts and have used spending diaries and even got spending diaries from mabs to try and get the OH to participate but that idea fell on deaf ears.

I keep a keen eye on all my bills and outgoings but its impossible to do the same with the OH. I try to use Laser for all purchases and where not i keep all jmy receipys anyway.

I suppose the only things i haven't added is that we dine out occasionally and that would cost about 200 pm roughly.

I know we should be able to live easily on the income we have but perhaps that is part of the issue the OH spends more than she earns, i cover any shortfalls but it does make things tense between us.


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## CN624 (20 May 2008)

My first reaction is you must have forgotten to add a decimal place in your income figure   Otherwise I'm not sure how you are skint every month on a combined salary of €125,000.  

Your outgoings do not seem any way excessive for that level of income. Is there something you aren't telling us about your OH's spending?


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## NatNif (20 May 2008)

Phone is needed for Business so can only perhaps save a tiny bit there,as we need the broadband which is 50€ pm and the rest is calls. but we have cut that back recently as the OH is beginning to take on board some things and the last bill was under 60€. 

The holidays are needed as we want to get a lot of travel done before having Kids. so there are holidays we want to do before we have any, we do want to plan for the future. But i reckon we can't afford kids, i need the public transport as i take a lot of taxis, although i have recently stopped doing this and walk nowadays since the weather has improved, however it does mean having to get up 1.5 hours earlier to get to the station and then 2 hours public transport commute each way, which isn't great... I still get taxis when its lashing... Thankfully not for the last couple of weeks.

Travelsaver tickets are an option i looked at before,but i work through umbrella companies and i don't think they allow it. although i can expense the tickets and get tax back that way anyway....


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## so-crates (20 May 2008)

Where to start! Firstly, I think that your other half has a little bit of a spending problem. They aren't paying towards the mortgage so basically they are living rent-free on an income of 55k and they can't keep in it? By the looks of what you have listed below, you pay for holidays too. That is a bit unreal, what are they spending it on!!? By my calculations (based on what you have listed below), your list amounts to €3140.59 and your OH's list amounts to €1014.65 *including* car-related expenses that you are forking out for. Excluding those, by that list they have monthly outgoings of €887.48!!! SO the question is.... what are they spending the money on? I know I am repeating myself here but there does seem to be a pretty sizeable chunk of cash going astray somewhere in that. From your list your OH is only contributing €200pm to household expenses (€500 if you include the car. I am excluding the CU loan as evidently that is something they took out alone so am assuming it was for their benefit rather than yours collectively), so in effect you are operating as a single income household, i.e. yours plus a little bit extra.

They may not want to discuss it but this is a serious issue. They are beyond their means and they are putting both of your financial well-being in jeopardy. Both of you need to start HONESTLY recording a spending diary and to account mutually for your expenditure at the end of the month. It may cause rows, in fact it probably will but (and I am being blunt here) if they cannot account for their incomings and outgoings they are taking the proverbial. It is disrespectful to you to treat you as a free money bank and just abuse your income to shore up extravagance. Starting to sound a little outraged now 

Has this been an ongoing issue? Or did it suddenly become a problem? Have they given any explanation for the shortfall? I am not asking you to answer these questions in public but I think you need to consider them in private at least. Potentially there is something your other half is concealing from you that might be detrimental to one or both of you. Money issues is frequently cited as one of the root causes of broken or strained relationships (in the UK at least) so the sooner you get to the bottom of this the better for you both.

On your side the only thing I can note is that you seem to be spending an awful lot of money on public transport. If this is your commuting cost, look into the taxsaver scheme immediately (assuming you are not self-employed, in which case is it a business expense?).

Seems I was a bit slow - I will leave the post as it is but I notice you have answered some of my points already


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## Satanta (20 May 2008)

NatNif said:


> I know we should be able to live easily on the income we have but perhaps that is part of the issue the OH spends more than she earns, i cover any shortfalls but it does make things tense between us.


The OH is on a very healthy income. They should be more than able to live within their means without you having to bail them out.

Given the fact that they also refuse in seeking any sort of help/advice (even a free and confidential service such as MABS), the problem is a fairly serious one. 

From the budget set out above, you have monthly outgoings of €4,355.24. I don't know what the net monthly take home is (it obviously depends on the specific circumstances) but there is a significant amount of extra outgoings eating up your monthly cash flow.

The obvious advice to give is to get your OH to cover their half of the household bills, their own car costs, etc. etc. and not to bail them out so easily if they overspend. Keep your accounts seperate and each cover their own cost of living. On a salary of €55,000 this shouldn't be a problem for your OH. 
However, as this is a relationship and not simply a financial arangement, it may not be so simple for you to act on this.


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## NatNif (20 May 2008)

Hi CN624,

Nothing too mad, about the OH's spending its just that she does tend to spend more than she earns. we are however clearing the Loans for remodelling the kitchen and should have that cleared in the next few months. but its easy to focus every so often and not spend too much but then when we achieve a goal it seems that we go back to the same old ways...

the situation is far from Dire, but i would like to build up a bit of a kitty for emergencies and start a pension for myself and get a car(If i can afford it)....

I think the problem is that my attitude is that you should only spend what you have and save up for big purchases and the OH can't delay gratification too often.... and spend what she is going to get it doesn't help that she has a second job that comes in lumps and she has the mindset that she is getting x amoutn of money isn 3 months time so that will clear the credit card/loan/college fees. however she does tend to overestimate what she recieves...


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## so-crates (20 May 2008)

NatNif said:


> ... it doesn't help that she has a second job that comes in lumps and she has the mindset that she is getting x amoutn of money isn 3 months time so that will clear the credit card/loan/college fees. however she does tend to overestimate what she recieves...


so her income is in excess of the €55k? and she still can't live within it? NatNif, you are being far too nice. She may have a want now attitude but she can't just expect to lean on you to get what she wants - she needs to learn some discipline in her expenditure, it is a child's attitude to expect immediate gratification.

If the extract of expenses you listed was elucidated from a diary (as some of the expenses are obviously for a longer period, adjusted to be monthly) that diary isn't telling the whole truth because the money in is being eaten up by a much smaller list of money out.


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## eileen alana (20 May 2008)

NatNif  - You really should try with the spending diaries again and account for every euro of money that comes into the house.  That is going to be a very difficult thing to do and you have to remain focussed and committed to it, difficult I know with a wife/partner that demands instant gratification but if you don't curb the spending now it may lead to more long term problems down the road.  You are very lucky to be earning so much. There are many people who struggle to pay mortgages 4 and 5 times their annual salaries as well as all the other household, childcare and transport bills.


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## CN624 (20 May 2008)

Do you know what she is blowing it on every week? Is it expensive clothes or shoes? Does she realise at all that her spending might be out of whack with her income?


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## D8Lady (21 May 2008)

What would happen if you stopped bailing her out? 
She'd have to face the results of her own spending behaviour. 

For the sake of your relationship & future, sorting this out needs to be a shared responsibility. Some of what you say seems to be getting through but not enough. 

Can I suggest the following strategy? It was useful for me and may help to broach the subject with your OH.  
The 60% solution

Essentially, aim that your day to day expenses are 60%  of your income. 
10% to pension (or use to clear debt, then switch it to pension)
10% to long term savings / investment (what will happen when family starts to grow?)
10% to short term savings (you said you want a car) 
10% for fun (holidays, nights out)

The key thing is that each of the 10%s should be automatically paid into your savings/investment/ pension accounts before you even see it. 
Decide between you what your priorities are, this year, next year, 5 years.  Tinker around with how you both want to allocate your income. Once agreed, make it automatic.

Best of luck, 
D8L


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## Bronte (21 May 2008)

OP as a consultant you are self employed I guess, what is your net income,   I ask this as I'm wondering why would business travel expenses come out of your take home pay.  Also how much do you actually spend on taxis?  I find it amazing that you think 125K is not enough to be able to afford kids on.  You have not actually clarified what your partner is overspending on, until you know all the figures you have not proven that is it she and not you, or both of you (as you are after all a couple) that is overspending.


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## paddyd (21 May 2008)

Bronte said:


> I find it amazing that you think 125K is not enough to be able to afford kids on.



I would concur with this. It may sound unusual, but don't worry too much about being able to 'afford' kids. Otherwise none of us would ever have them  Yet it somehow works itself out.


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## mik_da_man (21 May 2008)

I was in a very similar suitation and it's a tough one.
I was paying for a lot of the GF's car costs and shopping. It was only when I sat down and went through my statements that I realised how much it was costing.
I took a tough approach, and let her know how much of MY money she was spending and that it had to stop. I asked her where her money was going and she couldn't answer, until one day I came home to find her with a load of new clothes. Turned out that she was treating herself from her money and using mine to pay for day to day stuff.
I picked a point in time and totted up a few of the bigger costs, Car insurance, tax... and said that she had to pay me back over time for them and that if there was anything else that she wanted that I would add it to her bill. We set up a SO from her account to mine to clear off some of the money and if she asked me to pay for more things for her I would  let her know that the SO would go up too.

A lot of people might think it was a bit extreme but it worked, and it did put a fair bit of strain on the relationship.

Mik


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## annR (21 May 2008)

Natnif
I think that you know your money matters will have to be thrashed out with your wife.
What is she spending the cash on, and does she realise there is a problem?  Why are you covering her shortfall?  Does she take any financial responsibility at all for your future and future family?
A


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## Guest128 (21 May 2008)

In the name of God, if you are spending 450 per month on public transport and obviously never driving the car, why are you paying the insurance, tax and servicing for it?!

You also seem to pay all the house related stuff, gas, electricity, maintenance, insurance, TV license!

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous situation to let yourself get into, chivalry died when equality got fashionable, I think you need to start realising that and half a long chat with your wife....


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## NatNif (21 May 2008)

Hi all thanks for your replies,

I have tried to broach this subject many times with OH but its always ends badly and achieves nothing. 
The OH will pay heed for a short while however she does slip back to the old routine very quickly.
And then it seems to be a never ending cyle.
she does cover the loan herself and her own petrol expenses, and on  whim's she will even pay the odd utility bill, but its just to get her to be consistent is the most difficult part.
I have tried a few things, namely seperate accounts and spiltting the utilities bill between us she take reponsibility for some and i take some but then bills mightn't get paid and this would worry me and then after a while i just end up paying for them all anyway.

when debt get really bad i can persaude her to give me control of the credit cad and at one stage we used to put all income into a joint account which worked very well. but when we got clear the OH wanted independence again and then it being going on like this for the last few years.

we don't seem to be spending in an extravagant way(apart from hols), but it does seem to fritter away...
I have tried to get her to keep a spending diray and showed her what i use, even tried to get her to get receipts for everything and then i would do it for her but then she would have no privacy...


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## NatNif (21 May 2008)

forgot to say we do have dogs and spend about 160 a month on them for their food, we normally would buy a few chickens a week for them and dog nuts. as the dogs always leave dog food from tins after them and i would prefer them to eat freshly cooked meat anyway...


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## Soldier (21 May 2008)

god lot of money on petrol there. lots of ways to easily cut back. just buy essentials in the shopping to to places like aldi and lidl they save a few quid. life insurance i got my life insurance from www.mylife.ie and it worked out at 150 for the whole year. mayb you should do an online quote. 
electricity wise always turn lights off after you. just cut back on the luxurys for a while itll be hard but if it gets you out of this hole its worth it.


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## Guest128 (21 May 2008)

Who pays for the dog food and the chickens? €160 a month sounds very expense as well, would suggest feeding them your dinner left overs and potato skins, when they get hungry enough they'll go for them. 

TBH it seems like ye have lots of items that sound way above what I would expect to hear people spending on same; namely the holiday fund, the dog food, the public transport, the petrol (would you mind me asking what type of car and size engine it is?).

Coupled with that, TBH your wife is taking the proverbial and using you like a doormat. Im not trying to offend but people constantly (you have mentioned "it being going on like this for the last few years") taking others for granted really gets on my goat.....


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## NatNif (21 May 2008)

Hi soldier,

its not that we are in a hole we have only a small amount of debt and that will be cleared shortly, but its just that as soon as we clear one debt another debt pops up and then the whole charade begins again. 

i think what iwant is to be in a position where we both contribute and the contributions are reliable from both of us. 

its just that we seem to be firefighting bills all the time and that is serious hassle. i would prefer a situation where there is money in the bank and if we need something that we save up for it and not just put it on the cards and pay for it over a few months.

however when we do clear loans any extra cash never materialises and hence the dilemma. 
It seems the more we earn the more that is spent and this is going on for a long time.
the OH attitude is if she needs more money she will just go out and earn more through contract work and she often does this when things are getting out of control.

I think our attitudes are different towards money, The OH is working on career advancement and when finished her courses will be pulling in a lot more moneyat least 70k, and she can do private work as well. its just that she seems to spend this before she gets onto that step of thwe ladder.

Whereas i have the attitude that we should/could survive on what we earn now, no bother and that if we do have kids that we can cut back on certain areas to afford it...

I suppose i just want to get to a level of not stressing over this and that any money issues are a shared burden.


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## Gus2008 (21 May 2008)

Hi NatNif

The problem seems to be with your relationship, as opposed to spending problems. If your OH doesn't take your desire to resolve your financial situation on a more longterm basis seriously, there is no money advice anyone here can give you that'll help!

You have a healthy income, and there's no real excuse for you to be just breaking even when you should be making your money work for you! The fact that you don't have a pension, amongst other issues you raised, needs to be addressed sooner as opposed to later! 

Maybe you need to just sit her down and explain how important this is to you. If she realises that this is really stressing you out, then she may listen to you as opposed to feeling like you nag her. Failing that, I would advise that you stop subsidising her lifestyle and let that action get her attention! It may be harsh, but if this pattern continues, you could find yourself in a bad debt situation.


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## eileen alana (21 May 2008)

NatNif said:


> forgot to say we do have dogs and spend about 160 a month on them for their food, we normally would buy a few chickens a week for them and dog nuts. as the dogs always leave dog food from tins after them and i would prefer them to eat freshly cooked meat anyway...


 

The dogs are better fed than some families are!! Go to the butchers and asked for scraps and bones, boil them up at home the dogs will love them


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## annR (21 May 2008)

> I have tried to broach this subject many times with OH but its always ends badly and achieves nothing.


 
Why is this?  What are you suggesting to her and what exactly is her reaction?



> but when we got clear the OH wanted independence again and then it being going on like this for the last few years.


 


> even tried to get her to get receipts for everything and then i would do it for her but then she would have no privacy...


 
Is the independence and privacy an issue for her?  she obviously has a completely different approach to cash in any case.  Personally I think that trying to force her to manage her money your way could be impossible.

Should you consider having totally separate finances but coming to an agreement in terms of savings and contributions from her which is acceptable to both of ye?  Can you set up some way of her managing her own debt whatever way she wants and not allowing it to interfere with you?

Possible scenario - she does her own spending and you control everything else.  She sets up a standing order which contributes to you what you require to service the bills regularly and perhaps to save for the future.  As larger expenditures come up like holidays - she should stump up her contribution or else ye are not going.  Refuse to take out loans for other expenses - wait until the savings are there.  If she does want it now - she can take out her own loan in her own name, contribute her half to you and deal with the debt herself.

Her own debts may spiral completely out of control but maybe thats what it takes for her to take more responsibility for paying them.


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## z104 (21 May 2008)

The dogs will eat the nuts when they're hungry enough. redmils dog food lasts our dog for a month when mixed with scraps ( pasta/potatoes/rice/meat e.t.c. and costs 25 euro for 15kgs. redmills is a very good brand of dog food.
160 euro is pardon the pun "nuts"


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## NatNif (22 May 2008)

Yeah I reckon we can cut back on certain items including the dog food.

I do try to speak to the OH about it often and i get assurances that she will send on cash to me every month then does it for a month or two but it eventually stops and is very inconsistent.
She then seems to live very frugally for a month or two but then ends up on a splurge. and then we are back to square one.

As i said i have tried seperate accounts and with the OH transferring money to the joint account to cover bills but this works only briefly before reverting back to smaller sums or none at all...

i would like a consistent cashflow as that would be the best way to budget for both of us...


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## Guest128 (22 May 2008)

Why dont you get a standing order or direct debit set up? Get the one thats most difficult to cancel so she might just not be bothered. Better still get the bank to set one up where both parties must sign to start it and sign to stop if, if this is possible. You are heading down legal routes at this stage though....


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## paddi22 (22 May 2008)

160 euro a month on dog food is crazy... we fostered our parents dog as she was a bit too much for them. They had only fed her on the best of meats and boiled chickens... when we got her we grandually switched her to dry food and she is perfectly happy on it now..


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## annR (22 May 2008)

Natnif
This is starting to sound ridiculous.  You've tried talking to her, works for a while, the she doesn't bother anymore etc etc relying on her to transfer money instead of setting up a regular standing order.  What kind of advice are you looking for here?  How to survive being married to a golddigger?
A


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## ClubMan (22 May 2008)

This thread has become a _Letting Off Steam_ issue so is now closed.


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