# Voluntary surrender process



## 1qwerty (19 Apr 2012)

Hi I am looking for someone who has voluntary surrendered their ppr.
  We have signed the voluntary surrender forms from the EBS last week. 
  I would like to know what type of process other people have gone through and a timeline of what happened to them 


  Bit of background.
  We have explored all other options renting, selling and rent a room. 
  The house is 200k in negative equity. 
  Health reasons are preventing work now and in the future.


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## ceramic (20 Apr 2012)

Somebody wrote a draft outline of a property surrender letter on one of the threads and they intended to send it to the bank.  It was a well written letter and he got feedback on how to tweek it from other posters.  It is on a recent thread but I cannot remember where it was unfortuneately


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## Bronte (20 Apr 2012)

1qwerty said:


> We have signed the voluntary surrender forms from the EBS last week.
> .


 
Hello 1qwerty and welcome to AAM.  Any chance you could write out the wording on the voluntary surrender form?  We haven't seen one of thise here on AAM.  

Hopefully this solution works out for you and ends the nightmare of your current situation.  It's good to see that the EBS are willing to let you work through this.  Have you done the negotiation with the EBS yourself or did you use a professional?


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## 1qwerty (20 Apr 2012)

Hi Bronte, I wish they were willing to let us work through this but they have been very slow in returning any calls and solicitor letter (normally 4 weeks for any question).They have acknowledged the mortgage is unsustainable and i think this is why they don’t want to deal with ourselves


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## 1qwerty (20 Apr 2012)

*Surrender of possession of mortgaged premises to EBS limited*

Surrender of possession of mortgaged premises to EBS limited 

  Prior consent of spouse to surrender of property (which is or has been a family home) pursuant to the family home protection act 1976
  Name..................hereby consent for the purposes of the family home protection act 1976 to the surrender of the property below to EBS limited.
  Date....................
  Signed by the said in the presence of  ..................................
  Borrowers(s) ..................................
  Mortgaged premises .............................
  Date of mortgage...................
  Current address of borrower 1
  Current address of borrower 2 (if different)
  I/we the above borrower(s) of the current address (es) above in view of my/our indebtedness of EbS limited and in view of the power of sale grated to EBS by virtue of the mortgage of the date above, hereby voluntarily surrender possession to EBS limited of the above mortgaged premises in order that EBS may exercise its power of sale 
  I/we hereby confirm that I/we have been made aware that surrendered possession of the premises, we will have no right to enter or regain possession to the premises and acknowledge that the premises will be sold and the proceeds used to discharge and sums due to EBS limited including the cost of sale. Any surplus thereafter will be used (as far as it required) to discharge any other debts which are secured on the mortgage premises.
  Delete as appropriate 
  I/we hereby certify that during the term of our ownership of the mortgaged premises the said premises comprised our principal private residence.
  Or 
  I/we herby certify that for the part of the term of our ownership of the mortgaged premises the said premises comprised our principal private residence.
  Or
  I/We hereby certify that during the term of our ownership of the mortgaged premises the said premises was never our principal private residence.

  I/We confirm that our new address for correspondence and service of notices is ...........
  I/We further acknowledge that in the event that there is a deficit on my/our account with EBS limited after the premises are sold and the proceeds applied to my/our account, I/We will continue to be liable to EBS limited for payment of this deficit under the terms of my/our mortgage.

  I/We confirm that I/We have been advised by EBS limited to take independent legal advice in relation to my/our voluntary surrender of possession and I/We have
  *(A) declined to do so
  (B)Taken independent legal advice form.......................
  Name of solicitor....................
  Address of solicitor....................

  I/We undertake to assist EBS limited and its solicitors in the event that any documentation is required form me/us to complete the sale of the property.

  I/We acknowledge that we have removed any articles of value from the premises and that any items remaining there may be removed by EBS limited and disposed of as they see fit. I/We confirm that we will have no cause of action or claim against EBS limited in relation thereto 

  Signed by borrower 1:
  In the presence of:
  Witness signature: 
  Witness address: 
  Witness occupation:  

  Signed by borrower 2:
  In the presence of:
  Witness signature: 
  Witness address: 
  Witness occupation:


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## demoivre (20 Apr 2012)

1qwerty said:


> Hi Bronte, I wish they were willing to let us work through this but they have been very slow in returning any calls and solicitor letter (normally 4 weeks for any question).They have acknowledged the mortgage is unsustainable and i think this is why they don’t want to deal with ourselves



200k in negative equity is a good enough reason too. What is going to happen with the shortfall ?


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## 44brendan (20 Apr 2012)

That's the problem in agreeing to sign this form. It should have been agreed with the Bank that the balance of the debt would be W/O!


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## 1qwerty (20 Apr 2012)

What is going to happen with the shortfall ?
  The honest answer is nothing I will never have the finances to pay this off now or in the future.
  I have a few options 
  Ignore it and hope it goes away when the bank realises the possibility of working is gone for health reasons. 
  Move up north and declare bankrupt after the required living time 
  Personal insolvency legislation in Ireland when its signed into law 

  We bought a house at the top of the housing market that was not close to family and support. After not paying any payment on the mortgage in over 2 years we owe the bank more than we originally borrowed! The arrears are accumulating every month with no hope ever of paying off. Losing the house is inevitable building up 3 or 4 years more arrears will not solve anything


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## Bronte (23 Apr 2012)

1querty, thank you very much for posting that up.  I'm glad for you that EBS are recognising the situation you are in and allowing you to deal with the problem without going to court.  

Are you still  in the house?  Does the EBS want you to stay there until the property is sold?

If after it is sold you cannot afford the shortfall thenmaybe the EBS will just write off the debt?  That would be the logical thing to do.


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## 2on2 (23 Apr 2012)

Hi Guys, My wife and I have decided to go into PTSB some time soon and voluntary surrender our house I was wondering if anybody heard how other cases have got on with this bank in the past I have been looking through AAM and cant seem to find any. We are in huge negitive equity and getting into deeper arrears every month we are both unemployed and we have a 35 year tracker mortgage. We feel we have no choice as we have used up the last of the small amount we had in savings. So any info on past cases would be great.


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## Bronte (23 Apr 2012)

2on2, are you not getting mortgage interest supplement from social welfare?


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## 1qwerty (23 Apr 2012)

Hi we are still in the house and the form have been with them but they have not called us back except for the usual 1650 on a Friday evening leaving a voice message 

2on2 i have to agree with you. it comes to a point when the mortgage is unsustainable and something needs to be done as you cannot pay this off even if you make payment for the rest of your working life


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## 2on2 (23 Apr 2012)

Hi Bronte, we are not getting mortgage interest supplement as we have only been paying a token to the bank to show that we are trying to pay something and we are paying well below our interest. The bank have been in contact with us and want us to start paying at least the interest but this is just not going to happen as we just do not have it. If we just had the mortgage we would manage but like everybody else we have all the other bills that come in and we have cut right down. We just do not see any light at the end of this so we are hoping the bank will let us sell. I understand a judgement will be taken out on us but we have looked at all the options and feel this is the best way forward so we can try and move on with our lifes. The pressure and worry all the time worrying about where to find the money for this and that is just too much we feel there must be more to life than this every day. We have a young baby so the faster this happens the better for us. So if anybody has experience with PTSB on voluntary surrender of their house I would love to hear how you got on...


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## Pope John 11 (23 Apr 2012)

Perhaps its time for AAM Mods to draft up a procedure, if possible for the Voluntary surrender of one's home.

I'm sure it would go along way to aiding those in difficulty.


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2012)

2on2 said:


> The bank have been in contact with us and want us to start paying at least the interest but this is just not going to happen as we just do not have it. If we just had the mortgage we would manage but like everybody else we have all the other bills that come in and we have cut right down. .


 
Most people who come on here want to keep the family home but you don't and I think you're right. Long term is is unsustainable for people to be part paying off their mortgage with massive arrears building up. Fair enough for a year or two to get people out of a difficult period but not longer than that. 

By not paying the mortgage you will force PTSB's hand. They will be forced to take you to court to get possession of the house. Write them a letter telling them you are unable to pay the mortgage, that you are willing to voluntarily surrender it and see what they say. I presume you are already in the Marp process. When they do eventually sell the property you will be liable for the shortfall but as you are on social welfare no court will order you to make much of a payment (instalment order) if any. As you've left go of the house in your head you're on your way to getting what you want.

One question for you, what do you mean if you just had the mortgage you would manage?


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2012)

Pope John 11 said:


> Perhaps its time for AAM Mods to draft up a procedure, if possible for the Voluntary surrender of one's home.
> 
> .


 
It's actually about time the banks and the government got around to dealing with this mess.  Talk talk talk and still no legislation.  And the legislation that is proposed has the banks handprint all over it.


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## Bronte (24 Apr 2012)

1qwerty said:


> Hi we are still in the house and the form have been with them but they have not called us back except for the usual 1650 on a Friday evening leaving a voice message


 
You came on here to ask others what was the procedure, but you're actually the first, it must be a new procedure and EBS are probably feeling their way on it.  

It is in their interest that you stay in the property until it can be sold I would have thought for a few reasons.  It's hard to sell quickly right now, unless you go the firesale with Allsops route.  Better a house is occupied than unoccupied as it can deteroirate quite rapidly.  Also would need to be watched to prevent squatters and vandals etc.  Boarding up houses costs money and brings property values down even further etc.   And who better to mind a house than the 'owners'.


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## 44brendan (24 Apr 2012)

This "Surrender Form" is a one-way deal. It should not be regarded as some kind of solution to anyone in arrears on their mortgage. By signing the form the mortgagor(s) is relinquishing posession of the property to the Bank/BS. If the property is subsequently sold for less than the mortgage outstanding the Bank/BS are fully entitled to pursue the borrowers for the residual debt.
Anyone considering relinquishing their PDH to the Bank should certainly do so, if the associated mortgage is unsustainable. However, it should only be relinquished on the basis of a satisfactory agreement in respect of the residual balance.


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## 2on2 (24 Apr 2012)

I have done alot of reading up today on voluntary surrender of home and I have come across something that has worried me. In a few articles I have read some have suggested that they could stop our social welfare payments if we were to voluntary surrender our home but that would leave us with nothing, I was wondering if anybody can tell me if this is true and is this a step they would likely take or even has it happened in the past??


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## 1qwerty (24 Apr 2012)

2on2:They would not stop your welfare payments if you could not afford your mortgage. I think the information you might of come across is on no fixed abode or moving back to parents house. The second could affect your payment if they are means tested.

Once your house is in the process of voluntary surrender process you can apply to have your housing needs assessed (rent allowance etc)




Quote from section 6 from Housing.ie Housing needs assessment guidance notes revised 




One of the basic elements in assessing whether to give social housing support to a household is to establish whether
that household has a need for that support. The principal way in which a housing authority determines whether there
is a need for support is to assess the household’s current accommodation and household circumstances. Regulation
23 sets out the specific matters which a housing authority takes into account in making a determination as to the
suitability of the household’s current accommodation, as follows:
1. if the accommodation the household currently occupies is an institution, emergency accommodation, a
hostel etc, or the household has no accommodation (i.e. sleeping rough);
2. whether the household is currently living in overcrowded conditions;
3. whether the accommodation is unfit for human habitation;
4. whether the accommodation is unsuitable for reasons of a physical, sensory, mental health and/or
intellectual disability within the household;
5. whether there are serious medical or compassionate reasons as to why the accommodation is
unsuitable;
6. where there are shared households and the applicant household has, in the opinion of the housing
authority, a reasonable requirement for separate accommodation; and
7. other grounds where the accommodation is materially unsuitable or there are compelling medical or
compassionate grounds.
If the applicant, or any member of the applicant’s household is living in their current accommodation for a period of
less than 3 months, the authority should request details of other previous accommodation(s) occupied by members of
the household. This is important as the local authority must satisfy itself that there is an accommodation need and
that there is no alternative accommodation currently available to the household that is suitable to their needs.
In cases where the household states that it is being forced to leave their current accommodation, a housing authority
may bypass an inspection of the existing accommodation where there is certain documentary evidence to support
the applicant’s claims, such as:
• copies of court orders for eviction;
• notices to quit;
26
• institutional discharge orders, etc.
In circumstances where the household is being evicted or has received a notice to quit their current accommodation,
it is important that the housing authority investigate the reasons for the eviction order/notice to quit in order that the
authority can take appropriate action at allocation stage in the context of their wider estate management role under
section 14 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1997.
In cases where the applicant claims that it is no longer possible to live in the family home, the decision of eligibly for
the authority rests on whether it is reasonable for the applicant to seek to obtain social housing support to secure
alternative accommodation. In accordance with Regulation 23, authorities should take into account whether:
• the family home is overcrowded or unfit for human habitation;
• whether their current accommodation is appropriate to meeting any special housing need;
• there is a concern as regards violence or abuse happening in the family home;
• there is a requirement for the applicant to live elsewhere for full-time education/employment reasons;
• there is a requirement for the applicant to live in a different location for reasons of facilitating access to
children by way of a formal custody agreement.
The housing authority will require documentary support to confirm the circumstances where a person if seeking to
move from (or cannot return to) the family home, e.g. documentary support from a social worker or a member of An
Garda Síochána.
Housing authorities may, in special circumstances, allow that, while the current accommodation is suitable to meet
the needs of the applicant, at present, it is reasonable to assume that this will not be so in the future. This allows
housing authorities a certain level of discretion, on a case by case basis, to allow that a person in currently adequate
accommodation could be assessed as having a housing need if there is a high probability that there will be a housing
need in the near future which, if not addressed, could put the applicant at risk of homelessness. One example of this
would be where a person with an intellectual disability is residing with elderly parents and, while their accommodation
is suitable at present, it will not remain so should the parents die or become unable to care for the person with the
disability. In this case, a housing authority could undertake a housing assessment on the basis that the applicant’s
current accommodation is not suitable to meet their housing need.
Another example would be where a private homeowner has unsustainable mortgage arrears such that the
accommodation is in the process of being repossessed and the homeowner is unable to afford rental accommodation
in the private sector and seeks to access the range of social housing supports. In these circumstances the following
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procedure should be followed. Where a borrower and lender have agreed to a voluntary repossession (after
pursuing any reasonable forbearance measures) the lender should complete a statement setting out the forbearance
measures that have been explored to sustain the mortgage and the borrower in their home and confirming that,
despite these measures, the mortgage is not sustainable and a voluntary repossession has been agreed. Upon
receipt of the statement and confirmation in writing, a housing authority may proceed to assess the household’s
eligibility for, and need of, social housing support, following the completion by the borrower of the required application
form and the provision of the required documentation. This assessment should take place in accordance with section
20 of the 2009 Act and the Social Housing Assessment Regulation. Housing Finance and Policy Development
Section of the Department will be issuing further guidance on the treatment of such cases in the near future.
In relation to the matters set out above which authorities must consider in making an assessment of ‘need’,
consideration should be had to the following legislation and guidance.


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## 1qwerty (24 Apr 2012)

main point of quote 

Another example would be where a private homeowner has unsustainable mortgage arrears such that the
accommodation is in the process of being repossessed and the homeowner is unable to afford rental accommodation
in the private sector and seeks to access the range of social housing supports. In these circumstances the following
27
procedure should be followed. Where a borrower and lender have agreed to a voluntary repossession (after
pursuing any reasonable forbearance measures) the lender should complete a statement setting out the forbearance
measures that have been explored to sustain the mortgage and the borrower in their home and confirming that,
despite these measures, the mortgage is not sustainable and a voluntary repossession has been agreed. Upon
receipt of the statement and confirmation in writing, a housing authority may proceed to assess the household’s
eligibility for, and need of, social housing support, following the completion by the borrower of the required application
form and the provision of the required documentation. This assessment should take place in accordance with section
20 of the 2009 Act and the Social Housing Assessment Regulation. Housing Finance and Policy Development
Section of the Department will be issuing further guidance on the treatment of such cases in the near future.
In relation to the matters set out above which authorities must consider in making an assessment of ‘need’,
consideration should be had to the following legislation and guidance.


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## Bronte (25 Apr 2012)

2on2 said:


> I have done alot of reading up today on voluntary surrender of home and I have come across something that has worried me. In a few articles I have read some have suggested that they could stop our social welfare payments if we were to voluntary surrender our home but that would leave us with nothing, I was wondering if anybody can tell me if this is true and is this a step they would likely take or even has it happened in the past??


 
Actually 2on2 there was something about this on here and in the newspapers a while back.  Why don't you post a separate thread just on this point and maybe one of the social welfare posters will reply with the current rules.  

1querty, what is your understanding of what will happen next in the voluntary surrender, particular in relation to the remaining debt?  Have the bank told you anything at all?


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## 1qwerty (25 Apr 2012)

Bronte: what i expect to happen next is the bank and ourselves to agree a hand over date and the process of EBS selling the house to start. 

On a side note they will not allow ourselves to sell unless we can come up with the 200k balance. This stops ourselves selling the house even if we had a buyer ready to purchase 

The remaining debt 
From our point of view it will be written off one way or the another. As health reason are preventing work and there is no possibility of repayment in our situation 
The bank can write it off or we will declare bankrupt


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## 2on2 (25 Apr 2012)

My wife and I are going in to meet the bank on Monday are very nervous about what is ahead of us. Has anybody got any pointers that I should keep in mind while we are speaking to them?  What do ye think will be the atmosphere will be like? We just want to get the ball rolling on this so our first question will be to let us sell and take it from there.  If anybody has any helpful information they can give me that would be great.


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## 44brendan (25 Apr 2012)

Looking at this from the side of the Bank, our priority is to obtain information and client co-operation in resolving the problems. There is no need for being nervous or apprehensive. Bank officials are not there to judge you (although I accept there are some individuals who are less than professional in their dealings with clients).
I'm assuming that you are in arrears on your loans. In that case bring a financial staement of affairs (summary of assets and liabilities) and income and expenditure statement with you. You are best in a position to know what you can afford to pay & whether any assets can be sold to reduce the debt. Generally the Bank will be reasonable in respect of repayemnt agreements (you cannot pay what you don't have) and the purpose of the meeting is to come up with a resolution that suits all parties.
Best of luck!


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## frebel (27 Dec 2012)

how long does this process usually take?

Know of a house with a non-irish owner who has left the country and wants to surrender house to bank after bank didn't allow sale to go ahead due to lower sale price

Do banks then go through the original agent or do they sell their houses by auction? Don't want to miss the sale of the house and have told agent to update me


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## LDhood (28 Dec 2012)

+1 I would also like to understand what process the Bank goes through when trying to dispose of a property that they have taken back in negative equity.

Anyone know?


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## Peter54 (31 Dec 2012)

This is a very long winded process.  I am currently trying to sell an investment property and the bank are not budging because of how little I have been offered.  They are convinced the property is worth more.  Every auctioneer I have contacted has told me I have two hopes of selling, Bob Hope and No Hope.  

So far I have lost three potential buyers and sadly each have been cash purchasers, each offer was lower than then the last.

The property is a terraced property and the adjoining properties have now become no-go areas.  The landlord who owns the whole block, apart from mine obviously, has advised me he will be seeking PP to knock the houses down around me.  This of course is a massive concern and will lower the value further.

The bank have their heads in the sand and just continue to send out letters stating that I am in arrears.  Arrears circa EUR600.00  

Currently I am servicing the debt with my own money and my main residence is suffering because of this.

Any help please?


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## Time (31 Dec 2012)

Stop paying them. They may take some notice then.

I am dealing with a case where a sub prime lender is refusing to repossess on a house where nothing has been paid in over 3 years. No amount of goading them is making them budge. The arrears are in the region of 60,000 at this stage and even the letters have dried up. The current occupants are about to abandon the house to the elements, the bank have not responded at all.


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## Wishes (31 Dec 2012)

As they say silence is deafening.  I've had the same experience.  Not sub-prime in my case but a bank who basically didn't want me near them.  I would write to them voicing my concerns and of course I would be fobbed off aggressively.  I got to meet with them once and swore I would never meet with them again, shows how intimidated I was.

Very strange that a sub-prime has not taken the bait.  I would love to hear the outcome of this and reasons why??


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## Kerrigan (2 Jan 2013)

I was recently in Court with a client and had the privilege ~ sarcastic ~ of listening to banks trying to seek possession of property.  Not one was a Sub Prime lender.  Wonder what has these guys so quiet?      

Voluntary Surrender is a grey area.  The Ivory Tower Brigade would have you believe that it is a simple process of handing the keys back to the bank, simply picking up the NE and paying it over a period of time.  The property will then be put up for auction and they will pick it up for a song!  

Currently this is not happening at the large scale some thought it would and now they have turned their sights to blaming the homeowner, who is damned if they do and damned if they don't.  

They are simply in fairyland and will continue to blame the homeowners for staying in properties they cannot afford and living rent free off the backs of the tax payers.  Of course they never consider that the banks will not allow them sell or take offers on their homes.  

Rant over but you get my point!


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## mark71 (9 Jan 2013)

My bank IRBC rang today and told us we have to make our mind up by the end of the month, deciding to sell our buy to let or hand it over to them. 

Their is approx. 165,000 owed on the property and the market value is only 35,000 due to a neighbour from hell situation. 

We have decided we will voluntary surrender the house and see how the bank get on trying to sell it. I don't believe it will sell for years if at all, The only good thing is we will be finished with the neighbours but we will have a ever growing debt.

What happens in this situation? Once you have handed the house over how long do they try and sell it for? And what happens if they can't sell it?

I'm paying my mortgage in full on my principal property and this is also in negative equity by 100,000 approx.


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