# English soccer team



## haminka1 (27 Jun 2010)

overpaid spoilt primadonas with no heart for the national team. At the end of the day, if you have more chance to see them in a tabloid than in sports news, their defeat against germany is well deserved.


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## The_Banker (27 Jun 2010)

They were beaten well and despite the goal they didnt get, Germany deserved victory.

I cant see the reason for gloating though.


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## haminka1 (27 Jun 2010)

The_Banker said:


> They were beaten well and despite the goal they didnt get, Germany deserved victory.
> 
> I cant see the reason for gloating though.



i'm not gloating, just stating the way i see it. not irish myself so no 1916 trauma here


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## ninsaga (27 Jun 2010)

Yipee! I'm gloating


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## RMCF (27 Jun 2010)

My gloating will last for days.


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## mathepac (27 Jun 2010)

The_Banker said:


> ... I cant see the reason for gloating though.


My team (the one which I nominated as potential outright winners in another thread) won. Gloat, gloat gloat; gloat, gloat gloat ....


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## Caveat (28 Jun 2010)

Gloating or anything else aside, England were simply shockingly bad. They literally defended like schoolboys and passed like a pub 5 a side team.

Credit to Germany - they were good and easily the deserved winners but not to take it away from them, they were not outstanding. The final score was more reflective of a shambolic woeful England performance than of a classy German one.

In fairness to England I think they were demoralised. It seems that everyone in the team, in the country and the dogs on the street saw problems with Capello's tactics/strategy - unconventional formations and positions.  The players were stuck with something that they didn't want and that deep down they thought simply wouldn't work.


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## Shawady (28 Jun 2010)

I genuinely thought they would do better with Capello in charge. He did not seem to know what his best team was.
I am very surprised at just how poor they were.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

Not sure why anyone is surprised or is blaming Capello. England players are simply not good enough. Glen Johnson, Matthew Upson, Jermaine Defoe, Gareth Barry, Emile Heskey, Peter Crouch are not even good Champions League Players. Frank Lampard and Stephen Garrard are great players doing a certain job but are not great midfeild players i.e. in getting the ball and controlling a game (hence why Capello wanted Scholes back so much). John Terry is past his best. England have two world class players in Rooney and Ashley Cole. Rooney wasn't fit and hasn't been since he got injured. Cole had a good world cup despite his personal problems. 
They were rubbish against USA and Algeria. Despite the press reports, they were also rubbish against Slovenia who were the smallest nation at the world cup and lost to Northern Ireland in the qualifiers. Yesterday was a disaster waiting to happen. I have to say I was amazed at how bad they actually turned out to be though. For a team managed by Capello to concede a goal from a kick out is unbelievable. Having said all that, I was sorry to see them go out in that manner.


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## RMCF (28 Jun 2010)

Sunny said:


> Not sure why anyone is surprised or is blaming Capello. England players are simply not good enough. Glen Johnson, Matthew Upson, Jermaine Defoe, Gareth Barry, Emile Heskey, Peter Crouch are not even good Champions League Players. Frank Lampard and Stephen Garrard are great players doing a certain job but are not great midfeild players i.e. in getting the ball and controlling a game (hence why Capello wanted Scholes back so much). John Terry is past his best. England have two world class players in Rooney and Ashley Cole. Rooney wasn't fit and hasn't been since he got injured. Cole had a good world cup despite his personal problems.
> They were rubbish against USA and Algeria. Despite the press reports, they were also rubbish against Solvenia who were the smallest nation at the world cup and *lost to Northern Ireland in the qualifiers*. Yesterday was a disaster waiting to happen. I have to say I was amazed at how bad they actually turned out to be though. For a team managed by Capello to concede a goal from a kick out is unbelievable. Having said all that, I was sorry to see them go out in that manner.



No they didn't. Weren't in the same group.

Think you are getting mixed up with another qualifying campaign.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

RMCF said:


> No they didn't. Weren't in the same group.
> 
> Think you are getting mixed up with another qualifying campaign.


 
Yes they were. They lost 1-0 in Belfast in April 09. 

[broken link removed]


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## VOR (28 Jun 2010)

Sunny said:


> Not sure why anyone is surprised or is blaming Capello. England players are simply not good enough. Glen Johnson, Matthew Upson, Jermaine Defoe, Gareth Barry, Emile Heskey, Peter Crouch are not even good Champions League Players. Frank Lampard and Stephen Garrard are great players doing a certain job but are not great midfeild players i.e. in getting the ball and controlling a game (hence why Capello wanted Scholes back so much). John Terry is past his best. England have two world class players in Rooney and Ashley Cole. Rooney wasn't fit and hasn't been since he got injured. Cole had a good world cup despite his personal problems.



I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the players but Capello has to take a great deal of the blame.
I never really thought about club v international managers until this world cup. Capello is a good club manager. He is a rubbish international manager. That is beyond doubt IMO. It was his first time ever to manage at a tournament and he was terrible. 


Terry and David James had separate mini-mutinies.
He moved the players to a base far away from everything but then didn't manage the boredom.
He left players hanging on to see who would play.
He called up Paul Scholes and Carragher at the last minute.
He was stubborn and wouldn't change the formation when the whole world and his dog could see that 442 was never, ever going to work at this level.
He played Heskey when they needed goals.
He played Rooney against Slovenia when he should have been dropped after the Algeria game.
He publicly spoke about how important Barry was. Barry is useless at that level. Carrick is mediocre but 3 league medals and a chamions league might at least warrant a game. He could not be any worse than Barry and at least he would have ran after Ozil.
He talked about the usual "passion" rubbish. That way of playing is from the 80's.
Did I mention he played Heskey when they needed goals?


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## callybags (28 Jun 2010)

WEATHER WARNING
The North of England will experience severe flooding.
This is due to the whole of Scotland peeing themselves laughing.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

VOR said:


> I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the players but Capello has to take a great deal of the blame.
> I never really thought about club v international managers until this world cup. Capello is a good club manager. He is a rubbish international manager. That is beyond doubt IMO. It was his first time ever to manage at a tournament and he was terrible.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Can't argue about Heskey or Barry. Just look at the way Barry was considered crucial to England's hopes to show how desperate they were. I think the fact that Capello was looking to bring Hargreaves and tried to get Scholes at the last minute showed the confidence that he had in some of his players.


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## TarfHead (28 Jun 2010)

VOR said:


> I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the players but Capello has to take a great deal of the blame.
> I never really thought about club v international managers until this world cup. Capello is a good club manager. He is a rubbish international manager. That is beyond doubt IMO. It was his first time ever to manage at a tournament and he was terrible.
> 
> 
> ...


 

You forgot ..

sending on Subbuteo Wright-Phillips with 5 minutes left.
selecting Subbuteo Wright-Phillips & Aaron Lennon
John Terry is a good player for Chelsea, when he has Carvalho beside him and Cech behind him.
Frank Lampard is a good player for Chelsea, when he has Ballack beside him and Obi Mikel or Makalele or Essien behind him
Steven Gerrard was a great player for Liverpool, with Xabi Alonso and Javi Mascherano behind him. This season ? Not so much.

See where I'm going with this  ?

Rooney's form peaked in March. When he was on fire then, he was complemented by Park and Valencia and Nani being there for him.

Joe Cole was held out as the great white hope, but many conveniently forgot that he missed much of the season through injury and when he returned, he was nowhere near the player he had been, one back-heeled goal notwithstanding.


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## DB74 (28 Jun 2010)

Rooney didn't look fit anyway, and hasn't done since he got injured against Bayern Munich.

England's ability to keep the ball is virtually non-existent (as is Ireland's in fairness). IMO this comes from playing in the 100mph Premiership where it doesn't really matter if you lose the ball that quickly because your opponents will give it back just as quick.

Unfortunately for England, that doesn't happen in the International game.

In fact, England should be glad that they didn't meet a decent South American team, all 5 of whom would be capable of owning the ball for 65-70% of the game against a team like England.

Realistically England need a good long look in the mirror and they need to start at grass-roots level and try to teach kids to keep the ball and pass it rather than the good old-fashioned English way of a target man up front and a little man playing off him.

Thanks God they are out anyway.


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## RMCF (28 Jun 2010)

Sunny said:


> Yes they were. They lost 1-0 in Belfast in April 09.
> 
> [broken link removed]



They weren't.

Your own link shows that they were in with Croatia, Ukraine, Andorra, Belarus and Kazakhstan. They won all but one game.

Perhaps you are getting confused with the 1-0 defeat they suffered to NI in Belfast when David Healy scored? If so that was in Sept 2005, in qualifyign for the *2006 *WC.

Your clock is *way *out.


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## DB74 (28 Jun 2010)

Sunny is correct

[broken link removed]


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## RMCF (28 Jun 2010)

Back on topic I think the failure of England can be summed up in a few points:

1) Their players aren't as good as Sky TV will have us believe they are.
2) Their best players play better at club level cos they are surrounded by some of the worlds best foreign players.
3) They stick too rigidly at all age levels, right up to full international, on the 4-4-2 system. There is a lack of fluidity in their players and tactics.
4)  They pick the 11 best players in England, and then try to fit them into positions, rather than picking the best team. This is due to the fact that managers have found it impossible to drop some of the Golden Generation, and ends up playing some out of position just to have them in the team, a la Gerrard. I thought Capello was going to be the manager to have the balls to drop 'stars', but once he succumbed to pressure to play Becks until he got his 100th cap, you knew he had no backbone.
5) They lack the basics of control, passing and movement. Their game from U6 level is based on running mad, running fast, and not on ball retention.

And best of all, they aren't going to improve any time soon, cos we will soon be back into the full throws of 'the best league in the world', Rooney and Lamps and Stevie G will be banging them in again, they will be stuffing teams from Belgium, Turkey and Portugal in the CL, and all will be forgotten, until the next major tournament.


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## RMCF (28 Jun 2010)

DB74 said:


> Sunny is correct
> 
> [broken link removed]



Crossed lines, misread the original post. Apologies.

Thought he was chatting about England losing 1-0 to NI, not Slovenia.


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## Shawady (28 Jun 2010)

We are all wrong. They were just 'really tired'.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...lo_Fighting_For_His_Job_After_Germany_Win_4-1


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

I can understand someone like John Terry being a bit worn out but not sure a winter break would help! 
No English team got to the semi-finals of the Champions League. It wasn't a long season for them but I suppose it is a handy excuse.

Maybe Italy didn't play enough because of their break!


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## VOR (28 Jun 2010)

RMCF said:


> 4)  They pick the 11 best players in England, and then try to fit them into positions, rather than picking the best team



I agree with everything else you said except this. Heskey, SWP/Lennon, Upson, James and Barry are not the best players England have available. 

You can replace all 5 with Bent, Cole, Dawson, Hart and Carrick/Parker respectively. All are better players than the ones who started. They might not be world beaters but they are better.

The other point that nobody has mentioned is that the players just don't like each other.

I almost forgot to say that Glen Johnson is worst the full back I have ever seen play for England.  I had to get that out there. Hopeless doesn't do him justice. How that guy is a international full back I'll never know. He can attack a bit but he can't take up a position to save his life.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

VOR said:


> The other point that nobody has mentioned is that the players just don't like each other.


 
You would have to wonder about that as well. Especially after John Terry decided to speak for the 'boys' because he is a winner only to discover that the 'boys' didn't really think much of his idea to lead a players revolt. 

Personally John Terry should never play for England again. He is not even an international class defender. (of which there is a big shortage at this world cup and as a defender in a previous life, that saddens me!).


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## Shawady (28 Jun 2010)

Another point is that Capello did not seem to know what his best team was. Given his experience you would expect him to have his prefered starting 11 picked before the first game.
I don't think he used the same centre half, centre midfield or forward pairing for the 4 games. And he did not even use the same goalkeeper.


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## VOR (28 Jun 2010)

JT is only 29! It's painful how slow he actually is. And his style is just shocking.
Diving head first at the ball might go down well with the knuckle-draggers but it's no way to defend. 
Then you watch Pique and you see speed, style, composure, tackling ability, positioning, strength and skill all rolled in to one.


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## elefantfresh (28 Jun 2010)

> Then you watch Pique



I think he's missing a couple of front teeth from last week for his troubles.


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## csirl (28 Jun 2010)

Frank Lampard was a waste of space - didnt contribute anything. He was so bad, they were effectively playing with 10 men.

I think a lot of the players were under their club managers instructions to take it easy so they'd be fresh for the new season - reminding them who pays their wages. Both the Italian and French teams seemed to show signs of the same. It easy to see how friction between management and players can develop when the managers are trying to push the players in training, but the players are trying to conserve energy.


Rio Ferdinand got a lucky break - was able to use the excuse of a minor knock to get himself out of the WC.


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## Betsy Og (28 Jun 2010)

Terry always appears to me that he plays the game conscious of what the lads in the pub & the tabloids are thinking - thats why he wants to take the penalty, go bald headed for a block, call the lads in a huddle etc.

Making lads like that captain is no good for them, their sense of importance just spirals and their lack of focus means football suffers. He should never be made captain again and told if he doesnt start producing on the field then he can say bye bye altogether - he's supposed to be good defender - not the embodiment of English bulldog spirit (or whatever mantra he repeats when he looks in the mirror..... ok speculation, embodiment might be too big a word !)


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2010)

I see the calls to bring in Arry Rednapp as manager are getting stronger. You gotta love the English football community. Capello has won things where ever he has manged, has manged the biggest names in world football, has (had) a impecable reputation but the failure of the world cup is all down to him. It would never have happened if there was an Englishman in charge of the team (Steve McClaren, Graham Taylor, Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan, Terry Venables anyone) so it's time to get old 'Arry to rescue the situation.


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## levelpar (28 Jun 2010)

I am sending an email to the English FA to advise them to check out AAM and see where they went wrong. .  As for me , I have no answers


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## PyritePete (28 Jun 2010)

VOR said:


> I almost forgot to say that Glen Johnson is worst the full back I have ever seen play for England. I had to get that out there. Hopeless doesn't do him justice. How that guy is a international full back I'll never know. He can attack a bit but he can't take up a position to save his life.


 
Being a Liverpool fan... he wouldn't tackle his breakfast


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## Pique318 (28 Jun 2010)

VOR said:


> Then you watch Pique and you see speed, style, composure, tackling ability, positioning, strength and skill all rolled in to one.



Oh please, I'm blushing !!!


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## D8Lady (28 Jun 2010)

I heard they were getting a new coach soon - it'll be waiting for them in Heathrow


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## Feardorcha (28 Jun 2010)

What does it say about the standard of english midfielders when capello begged scholesy to come out of retirement


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## ringledman (29 Jun 2010)

Feardorcha said:


> What does it say about the standard of english midfielders when capello begged scholesy to come out of retirement


 
Not a lot, but Scholesy is a legend. 

Most gifted English footballer of the past 20 years.


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## RMCF (29 Jun 2010)

ringledman said:


> Not a lot, but Scholesy is a legend.
> 
> Most gifted English footballer of the past 20 years.




Might have done a job v USA and Algeria, but would not have counted v Germany or the likes of Argentina, Brazil or Spain.

Past his sell-by too.


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## Teatime (29 Jun 2010)

Roy Keane on why the English soccer team did not perform...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQ80x2MrG8


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## Sunny (29 Jun 2010)

Teatime said:


> Roy Keane on why the English soccer team did not perform...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQ80x2MrG8


 
Class!


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## levelpar (29 Jun 2010)

Originally Posted by *Teatime* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1055820#post1055820 
_Roy Keane on why the English soccer team did not perform...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQ80x2MrG8_



> Class!


 
Got it in one


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## Feardorcha (29 Jun 2010)

RMCF said:


> Might have done a job v USA and Algeria, but would not have counted v Germany or the likes of Argentina, Brazil or Spain.
> 
> Past his sell-by too.


 True but still better than whats there now


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## demoivre (30 Jun 2010)

The_Banker said:


> They were beaten well and despite the goal they didnt get, Germany deserved victory.
> 
> I cant see the reason for gloating though.



I'd say the English media are one of the main reasons why many gloat when the soccer team gets beaten. I have nothing against the England team, and am indifferent about soccer generally, but I think it's hilarious that the English media over the years have expected success from their teams that have won nothing in 44 years ! They have had a completely misplaced optimism in their teams and it's not as if England have even been regularly in serious contention in World cups - they have *never* beaten any of the top sides in the knock out stages of the World cup finals away from Wembley. 
We used to get the same rubbish from the English media  about Tim Henman during Wimbledon - Tiger Tim etc yet the guy never won any grand slam event.


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## sunrock (30 Jun 2010)

I think we had a bit of our own delusion about the Irish team.Commenting about the paraguay v japan match and the poor quality in it the RTE presenter and Giles and Brady began to moan about how the irish teAM WOULD  HAVE been much better than either of these teams and would probably have given a very good account of themselves if they had qualified.This silly talk totally ignored the fact that italy and France who got there after getting the better of the irish team , could not even get out of their group. 
The programme after it had heavily criticised the defensive nature of japan v paraguay then showed a clip of our golden moment when we beat romania on penalties and packies save and dave o leARYS GOAL. THERE WAS TOTAL AMNESIA ABOUT OUR TOTALLY NEGATIVE TACTICS AND THE FACT THAT iRELAND WERE PLAYING FOR PENALTIES. Not blaming Jack Charltons tactics, in being totally negative as we were playing against a much more skillful team.


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## haminka1 (30 Jun 2010)

sunrock said:


> I think we had a bit of our own delusion about the Irish team.Commenting about the paraguay v japan match and the poor quality in it the RTE presenter and Giles and Brady began to moan about how the irish teAM WOULD  HAVE been much better than either of these teams and would probably have given a very good account of themselves if they had qualified.This silly talk totally ignored the fact that italy and France who got there after getting the better of the irish team , could not even get out of their group.
> The programme after it had heavily criticised the defensive nature of japan v paraguay then showed a clip of our golden moment when we beat romania on penalties and packies save and dave o leARYS GOAL. THERE WAS TOTAL AMNESIA ABOUT OUR TOTALLY NEGATIVE TACTICS AND THE FACT THAT iRELAND WERE PLAYING FOR PENALTIES. Not blaming Jack Charltons tactics, in being totally negative as we were playing against a much more skillful team.



i guess we'll see in the ec 2012 qualifiers. strong group


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