# Money from house on death of spouse



## MoneyM (3 Oct 2006)

Just wondering if somebody could give me some advice.

My sister has some serious health issues and even thought it doesn’t look like she’s going to die anytime soon she has this on her mind for a while now.

If (and I say IF) in the event she does pass away her hubby will get the house fully paid for (life insurance) he’s only young so she knows he’ll be able to move on with his life their house is worth over €400k, she wants to look after my mam by giving her €100k out of this.

She was thinking the following:

1) Gets a will done up to say that mam is too be giving €100k (so hubby will have to take a mortgage out for €100k or sell the house and give her the funds out of that.
2) Have solicitor to draft up a doc (and her hubby to sign) to say that after her death her mam has to be given €100k

Will any of theses stand up in court in the unlikely event that her hubby decides he doesn’t want to give it (my sister says she’ll come back and haunt him!!!)

Tks in advance.


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## ClubMan (3 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*



> *Some advice plse*


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## ClubMan (3 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*



MoneyM said:


> If (and I say IF) in the event she does pass away her hubby will get the house fully paid for (life insurance) he’s only young so she knows he’ll be able to move on with his life their house is worth over €400k, she wants to look after my mam by giving her €100k out of this.


Do you mean mortgage protection life assurance? What sort? See here. If it's decreasing term then the chances of there being spare cash left over after the cover assigned to the lender has paid out are probably slim. If it's level/convertible term then the difference between the amount covered and the outstanding mortgage should be available to her husband. Is it this excess that you're talking about?


> 1) Gets a will done up to say that mam is too be giving €100k (so hubby will have to take a mortgage out for €100k or sell the house and give her the funds out of that.


Is the husband agreeable to this sort of arrangement?


> 2) Have solicitor to draft up a doc (and her hubby to sign) to say that after her death her mam has to be given €100k
> 
> Will any of theses stand up in court in the unlikely event that her hubby decides he doesn’t want to give it (my sister says she’ll come back and haunt him!!!)


Best to get legal advice on this to be honest.


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## mmclo (3 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*

There should be no problem making a will doing what you describe subject to the previous comments on the insurance front.


Naturally I would stress I am not a solicitor or qualified to give actual legal advice


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## sheena1 (3 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*

As well as speaking to a solicitor she should sit down and talk this over with her hubby and her mother together. It amazes me how often people make wills and give no indication to relatives of their intentions only to have family disputes in the aftermath. Your sister should make her intentions very clear from the outset so that God forbid if she does pass away the your family and your in-laws won't fall out.


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## ramble (3 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*

If the house is in joint names, as joint tenants then it will automatically pass to  the husband by survivorship.  I suggest your sister gets legal advice.


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## MoneyM (4 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*

Clubman- Sorry about that title, I'll make sure I post a proper heading in future.

Thanks guys, it's all a little up in the air at the minute, she's going in for an op soon and I think it's all getting her down so she's thinking about everything but I know she's going to be fine and that she'll out live us all...

She has Mortgage Protection on death whereby it passes the full amount to the lender thus leaving the other person with the house fully paid.

She has spoken to both her hubby and my mam with regards to this and her hubby is in agreement whereby he'll give the 100k to my mam, I have told her to seek legal advice and she will she just wanted to see if it was possible to do as she knows that her hubby has full claim to the house and that it is really up to him if he wants to give the money away.
So that's why she is thinking if she gets something in writing that it won't cos problems IF something does happen to her.

Thanks again


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## ClubMan (4 Oct 2006)

*Re: Some advice plse*



MoneyM said:


> Clubman- Sorry about that title, I'll make sure I post a proper heading in future.



You can edit the title of this thread by following the instructions to which I linked above.



> She has spoken to both her hubby and my mam with regards to this and her hubby is in agreement whereby he'll give the 100k to my mam



The mortgage protection life assurance will be assigned to the lender so the husband will never get his hands on the money paid out - unless it's a level term policy paying out in excess of the outstanding mortgage amount.

I guess what is being suggested is that if the mortgage is cleared in this way then the husband will remortgage the house for €100K and then pay this to the mother in law? Note that this transfer will probably give rise to tax implications (e.g. _Capital Acquisitions Tax_).


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## MoneyM (4 Oct 2006)

Clubman- Done (and I even got it to rhyme!!!)  

Yes that's what she's hoping will be done, her hubby take out a further loan of €100k after the house has been paid off, (he's only 32 so a €100k mortgage isn't alot for him)

What’s she’s afraid off if this isn’t put in writing and her hubby changes his mind after her death my mam will get nothing, she’s going to wait till after the op and see how everything goes then and then seek legal advice.

Thanks


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## Miles (4 Oct 2006)

Why dont you and your brother in law split the mortgage of 100K to take care of your mother?

Hes only 32 but hes got to move on also!


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## Satanta (4 Oct 2006)

Also worth considering how the agreement is phrased.

If it's a "give 100k" situation, who knows what price the home may be worth. It may have risen to €500k or €600k or even dropped to €200k meaning your brother in law may end up passing her entire share of the house over to your mum.
Worth considering looking at just in case. Who knows what can/will happen in the future.


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## ney001 (4 Oct 2006)

She sounds distrustful of her husband so she needs to sit everybody down and make a will now.  Splitting mortgage sounds like a good idea.  What about hubby's family - what if he has to look after his own family at some stage but cannot because he has a mortgage to pay, what if he becomes ill and cannot pay a mortgage on his own?. Sounds like provision needs to be made for your mother now perhaps between all the siblings involved - not leaving it just to sister and brother in law


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## liteweight (4 Oct 2006)

I think Clubman already referred to a tax implication for your mother if hubby 'gifts' her 100K. In law he's not a relative and I think he can only give her approx 43K tax free. She would pay 20% gift tax on the balance. Your sister should really see a solicitor.


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## MoneyM (4 Oct 2006)

*Ney001-* My sister trusts her hubby 100% but a lot of things can happen after death of family member/ spouse and she just wants it that EVERYBODY knows were they stand etc. etc. So no arguments at all can pursue after she’s gone she’s is CERTAIN she doesn’t want that ( if you read my first post it’s my sister who is sick and wants my brother in-law to give my mam €100k on her death.)

*Miles-* No WAY I am taking a joint Mortgage out with my brother in-law, my sister wants to look after my mam (half of that house is hers and she wants it divided between the two people she loves i.e. her hubby and my mam) this has NOTHING to do with me whatsoever I am just helping her out with info, and to be fair 100k of a mortgage now a days is nothing and he will be able to move on with that, or maybe then sell the house and take his €300k and move somewhere where no mortgage is needed.

*Satanta –* She hasn’t thought about that at all, maybe she can get it in writing that a percentage of the value of the house is assigned to my mam, but I will have her think about this tks.


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## Vanilla (4 Oct 2006)

A will should be sufficient here to do what your sister wants.Even where the property is in joint names as joint tenants, the very fact of making this will should be enough to sever the joint tenancy. At the amount you are talking about her husbands legal right share to half of her estate (if they have no children) will be satisfied by the remaining equity. The amount will be treated as an inheritance from your mothers daughter rather than from your brother in law thereby conferring favourable tax thresholds. When your sister goes to make her will her solicitor should be able to explain all to her.


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## liteweight (4 Oct 2006)

Vanilla said:


> A will should be sufficient here to do what your sister wants.Even where the property is in joint names as joint tenants, the very fact of making this will should be enough to sever the joint tenancy. At the amount you are talking about her husbands legal right share to half of her estate (if they have no children) will be satisfied by the remaining equity. The amount will be treated as an inheritance from your mothers daughter rather than from your brother in law thereby conferring favourable tax thresholds. When your sister goes to make her will her solicitor should be able to explain all to her.



Well put!


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## dodo (4 Oct 2006)

First of all sorry to hear about your Sister,hope she gets better
Why should the hubby give his mother in law a penny, seems funny to me, did your sister have the house before she met her hubby and was helped out by her mother,  if they bought house are equals then why should he not get all that is due to him,  Put the shoe on the other foot, if he was to die how would your sis think about his mother getting 25% of her rightful cash.  
If I knew I was going to die soon there is no way I would expect my wife to give her own money away to my family, I think there must be more to it than what you are telling us,  To be honest if my wife asked me to do what your sister is asking her hubby to do and we had bought the house together and had no help from anyone, then my answer would be no and I would expect the same answer if show was on other foot,  I think your sister is making her hubby feel gulity, sorry to be straight. but it does not add up


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## ClubMan (4 Oct 2006)

Vanilla said:


> A will should be sufficient here to do what your sister wants.


Does the  not have any relevance here?


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## MoneyM (5 Oct 2006)

I spoke to her last night and she said after the Op (and IF it’s bad news) she’ll go and speak to a solicitor with regards to leaving a Will and cutting out the tax implications.

Dodo – To answer your question, the house was only bought after the two of them met my sister and her hubby put the same amounts in so therefore both of them own it jointly, however saying that my mam has been very good to them and my sister feels that this money will help her for the rest of her life, and as she owns half the house she’s leaving one of her half to her hubby and the other to my mam, her hubby is in agreement to it but she wants it in writing just so everything is above board. 

At the end of the day her hubby will have at least €300k I know it’s not his wife but he’s only young and will be able to move on with his life and live comfortably after, whereby my mam is on a pension ONLY and she wants to make previsions for her, it’s her money so therefore she can do with it (I hope anyway) whatever way she see fit.

Thanks again.


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## Swallows (5 Oct 2006)

My understanding of a* joint* tenancy is that when the first party dies the surviving party owns all the house.I must stress I am *not* a solicitor.Unless the joint tenancy is severed   by both parties ( by writing a letter to that effect and both signing it.) there would be no half left to distribute in a will. This can only happen if the house has been bought as tenants in common. Can anyone confirm this.


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## Carrigbabe (5 Oct 2006)

Why doesnt your sister just take out a brand new life assurance policy for 100k totally seperate from anything to do with the house and assign it to your mum? 
depending on what illness she has it may be difficult to get however. But worth looking into.


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