# I hit a roadwork sign: Would I have a claim against Co. Co.?



## funnymunny (25 Sep 2008)

I hit a roadwork sign Monday evening, belonging to the County Council.  It was slightly out on the road and there was an iron bar sticking out of the side of it parallel to the sign.  There was an oncoming car so I could not swerve to avoid it and the bar punctured the side of my car, tearing a gouge in it, ripping out the indicator light and smashing my mirror. 

I reported it to the guards as I knocked the sign flat and it may have caused an accident if somnone had to swerve to avoid it.  I also asked if I would have any recourse with the council, they said it was a civil matter.  

I contacted the council and they told me to send a letter outlining the details which I have done.  I took photos of the damage to my car but I was unable to take photos of the sign as it had gotten dark, there was no where safe to pull in and I was wearing dark clothes so it would have been unsafe to park down the road and walk back.  I drove back the following morning and the sign had been replaced.  

My question is this, there are no witnesses, the guards didn't take a statement as such and do not have my details so am I flogging a dead horse?

 I don't want 'compo', I would simply like some sort of payment towards paying for the damage to my car as I really feel the sign was too far out on the road and there was a part of it jutting out. 

Does anyone have any experience of this?


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## csirl (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

The key question is who's fault is the damage to your car?

Bear in mind that when driving thru roadworks, you are expected to drive slowly and cautiously expecting to see temporary signs, bollards, cones, barriers, equipment etc.

My inclination would be that if the sign was sitting in a place that you might expect to see a roadworks sign, then it may be difficult to prove the council is at fault, afterall, you hit the sign, not the other way around.



> There was an oncoming car so I could not swerve to avoid it


 
From this statement, it appears that you did not have a clear passage through this section of road. A key question is could you pass through with out crossing over the white line in the middle of the road? Your side of the road was obstructed by a road sign - was there enough room between your car and the centre line to allow you to pass without crossing the centre line or hitting anything. Usually when you are driving and your way is obstructed by parked cars, roadworks, skips etc. to the entent that you cannot proceed without crossing the centre line, then you DO NOT have right of way to proceed. The fact that the Gardai do not appear ot think that the oncoming car is at fault may suggest that they think you did not have right of way and so have no claim against the oncoming driver.


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## funnymunny (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

I'm sorry if i have confused the issue but not for one moment to do I think I have a claim against the on coming car.  I never mentioned the oncoming car to the guards except to explain that this is why I couldn't move out to the centre of the road to avoid the sign so there was no mention of fault.  The guards were not called to the scene, I simply rang them to say that i had knocked a sign and it was out of the road so they may need to have someone remove it in case it caused an accident. However, as I previously stated, I did mention what had happened and he said it would be a civil matter between me and the council.  

I agree with your point about there being an onus on me as the driver to proceed with due caution, but as I had passed a sign of similar size not a hundred yards previously without incident, I was most surprised and confused with the bang when I hit the other sign.  My issue isn't really even that the sign was slightly out on the road, but that there was a metal bar jutting out of the top it, which was certainly not on the previous sign and this is what did the damage, I was not expecting it to be sticking out of the side of the road and as the signs were close together, did not have time to stop safely or avoid the bar.  If the bar wasn't sticking out of the sign, I would have had plenty of clearance on 

However, your reply has given me some indication of how the council may treat the matter so I will not expect too much and will go through my own insurance in the meantime.  Thank you for your take on the matter.


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## csirl (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*



> I was not expecting it to be sticking out of the side of the road and as the signs were close together,


 
Can you expand on this with a description? You may have a point if the bar was not visible and sticking out in an unusual manner so that the sign did not conform with normal H&S standards. Do you mean that e.g. a metal pole that usually isnt part of a sign was jutting out onto oncoming traffic?


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## GOBSTOPPER (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

I think you should have regarded the sign as if it were a pedestrian or parked car. ie stop,wait for a clear safe way to drive around it. I know its a pain but I think your responsible for hitting something stationary. If it was an abandoned car sitting there and you hit it ,who would be responsible ? you I think. Maybe some legal eagle can advise of any precedent . I'm sure your not the first this has happened too.


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## funnymunny (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

Csirl, it was a standard square sign, on a metal frame (like an A frame I guess, in a billboard type style).  On the top of the sign, there was a metal bar, jutting out of the side of it....like a pencil sticking out the end of a spiral notebook is the only way I can think of to describe it.  If I had actually hit the sign itself, it would have only dented the car I imagine, but there is a hole straight through the left wing where this bar punctured the bodywork.

I see what you are saying Gobstopper and I was going to say if it was a pedestrian I would have had enough clearance....unless they were carrying an iron bar across the back of their necks...then I may not, so point taken.  

Again, thanks for the input, at least I know what to expect.  These are things that I had not really considered, so won't be disappointed when I a pfo letter.


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## Seagull (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

How far beyond the edge of the sign did the bar protrude, and did it have any kind of reflector on it?


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## Rose (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

what does a "pfo letter" mean


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## Marion (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

It means in polite language that the request will not be entertained.

Marion


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## PM1234 (25 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*



Rose said:


> what does a "pfo letter" mean



It stands for "please **** off". 

Its (usually) used to describe standard letters from companies/organisations who thank you for your letter and interest and advise they will keep your letter/application on file e.g. cvs.  

Receiving one usually means the company is not going to take any action as a result of receiving the (senders) letter.


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## funnymunny (26 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

Seagull, I think it protruded about a foot, but I'm not great with lengths so that wouldn't be set in stone. There was no reflector on it.  

In any event, I will wait and see what reply I get from the council. Given the replies, I am not expecting anything.  No doubt they get letters in every other day, about punctures due to potholes and broken windows from loose chippings and I have yet to hear of someone getting any joy from them. 

As previous posters stated Rose, term generally used when you get a letter after a job interview stating you did not get the job...in other words, please flip off. Although flip is not the usual word used.


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## Rose (26 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

Ah well, it just shows you can learn something everyday. Thank you all for the polite info.


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## Vanilla (26 Sep 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*

Hi funnymunny, this is the kind of post where it would be far better for you to go and see a solicitor in person and go through what happened to see if there is a potential claim. Many solicitors do not charge for an initial consultation but you can ring in advance and enquire. It is more than likely that, even if you have a case, if you write in yourself the co co will issue a standard letter denying liability. I did this myself once for the craic, wrote personally into the council with a claim for something they were clearly liable for, they wrote back with standard denial letter, then I wrote as a solicitor. Settled shortly afterwards.


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## funnymunny (2 Oct 2008)

You are wise indeed Vanilla!  Just said I would come back with an update.  Received expected pfo letter from Council as you said.  I am going to pursue it further through a solicitor, with a follow up letter, as you suggested simply because the tone of the letter annoyed me and they 'quoted' me incorrectly in the letter.  If that gets no joy I will consider the matter closed, nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## DavyJones (2 Oct 2008)

*Re: Would I have a claim with Co. Co.*



Vanilla said:


> I did this myself once for the craic, wrote personally into the council with a claim for something they were clearly liable for, they wrote back with standard denial letter, then I wrote as a solicitor. Settled shortly afterwards.




I can just picture you now Vanilla, entering the phone box as a civilian and exiting as a solicitor. Wrong do-ers beware!


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## Yorrick (2 Oct 2008)

"There was an oncoming car so I could not swerve to avoid it"

If it was a pedestrian dressed in dark clothing what would you have done ?

You were driving too fast considering the road conditions, light  and weather conditions. Now you want the Council to compensate you !


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## funnymunny (2 Oct 2008)

Have you read through this post?  I already stated that I would have enough clearance to safely pass a pedestrian.  I never said what speed I was going, nor mentioned weather or light conditions. As it happens it was 7.20 on a gorgeous dry sunny evening.  I was travelling with due caution and as also stated previously, would not have hit the sign except for the bar protruding from the side of it, which was not on any other signs, and had no purpose, nor was there a marking or warning on it. 

You make it sound as though I am looking for 'compensation' for whip lash and emotional suffering due to the incident, which I assure you is not the case.  I simply want a contribution towards the cost to fix my car.  I am not entirely foolish, it is unlikely I will get it, but it is my right to pursue it. People have expected the Council to 'compensate' them for far less.


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