# Genuine VRT exemption?



## JakeB (20 Nov 2007)

Hi folks

Can anyone help me confirm if my circumstances allow me to bypass VRT?

I am an Irish citizen and have been living, working and paying tax in the UK for 15 months and intend to return home to Ireland in 12 months with a UK purchased car.  

I have receipts for UK tax, mortgage documentation, wage slips etc and am genuinely moving home permanently with my partner.  

If hypothetically I bought, taxed and insured an expensive used car in the UK 6 months before i return and then tax and insure it for 12 months in ireland, can i sell it without incurring VRT & VAT? Are there any other major costs involved or hidden obstacles?

For example, say if I splashed out on a used 2006 Porsche Cayman for GBP30k in the UK and I sell it 18 months later (6 mths in UK and 12 mths in Ireland) in Ireland for say €60-70k euro.  Is this a case where I can legally avoid VRT as a one off and make a handsome profit?  If so, whats to stop my partner (same circumstances apply to my partner except she's French) and I "investing" in two expensive cars before we return to take advantage of a one off situation? 

thanks in advance
Jake


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## RS2K (20 Nov 2007)

Sounds good to me.


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## myate (20 Nov 2007)

Sounds ok to me too. As long as you've had it 6 months or more in UK and keep for 12 months here. I've a Clio that I had a for a few years in UK and brought over last year when I moved. It's worth the same here now as what I paid for it then!


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## Frank (20 Nov 2007)

Best value is on a car with a 2.0 liter plus engine 

30% VRT 

Buy a good diesel and you will have no problem with resale.

BMW 530D will all the trim will go like hotcakes


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## Luternau (20 Nov 2007)

No problem in doing this-own for 6mths before importation, and keep for 12 mths after registration. Note 

Note the following;
-make sure you have all the paperwork-particularally evidence of working in the UK
-the registration date in Ireland is the date the VRT office sign off the paperwork, not the day of import.
-Only you are allowed to benefit from the tax break-so do not put any named drivers on it, or you risk claw back
-You are permitted to be the 1st owner
-There is no vat implication anyway, as vat will have been paid in the EU
-There is a requirment that the vehicle has reasonable mileage on it-to prove use of it, tho this is not enforced too much.

Check out revenue.ie  where there is info on VRT exemption


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## JakeB (20 Nov 2007)

thanks for the replies, looks like for a change our crazy VRT laws are working in my favour. i will try and make the most of it by buying the right type of car that will maximise my return.

The paperwork should be fine as i've a permanent job, a UK mortgage and will have been in the UK for over two years by then. the only concern is the named driver comment from Luternau

_"Only you are allowed to benefit from the tax break-so do not put any named drivers on it, or you risk claw back"_

is this really the case? my partner will inevitavly be on the policy as a named driver but will not hold any ownership of the car. In fact I plan to get her to buy her own car to bring over to ireland at the same time


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## Darando (20 Nov 2007)

Just remember you will have to have the porsche insured over here!!!! Have you checked how much your insurance will be for the 12 months you will it have it before you sell it - just so you don't get a big surprise after buying the car!. Let us know how much they quote 

Also by the time you sell, the car will be 1 year older so factor the depreciation into your profit. - although you will be driving a nice motor for a year


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## chlc (20 Nov 2007)

Buy a well spec'd  B.M.W 3 or 5 series either petrol or diesel or mercedes E200 again petrol or diesel automatic and sell it slightly cheaper than they go for here after the 12 months and you walk away with a tidy profit.http://www.carzone.ie/ for the prices they are retailing here.


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## xt40 (20 Nov 2007)

Darando said:


> Just remember you will have to have the porsche insured over here!!!!


i dont think that is true. we have a car that was brought in this way and it just states on the reg cert that the car may not before x date without the prior consent of the revenue commissioners. if im right the op could buy a car with 6k miles on it and bubble wrap it for the year he has to keep it.


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## Darando (20 Nov 2007)

xt40 said:


> if im right the op could buy a car with 6k miles on it and bubble wrap it for the year he has to keep it.


 

So would you risk a 60k motor being bubbled wrapped without insurance -what if it got stolen? I know which option I would rather. Ok not necessarily fully comp but at 3rd PF&T even if being left in a lock up.

(btw I didn't mean he _had _to get it insured - just that if he did then factor it into the cost also for profit)


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## JakeB (21 Nov 2007)

spot on about the insurance and depreciation Darando, I had actually factored that in, albeit not for the Porsche, may have been getting carried away a bit there ;-) 

In any case, with the right choice of car, spec, mileage etc it looks like I could still make a tidy profit even if I insured it and put a few miles on the clock.  I will own the car for 18 months and would find it impossible to keep such a nice motor under lock & key (and bubblewrap) for that long - life's too short! 

Anyway, I've still about 6 months to wait unfortunately, how am I going to tear myself away from Autotrader UK  & Carzone.ie....


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## Luternau (21 Nov 2007)

JakeB said:


> t.
> 
> _"Only you are allowed to benefit from the tax break-so do not put any named drivers on it, or you risk claw back"_
> 
> is this really the case? my partner will inevitavly be on the policy as a named driver but will not hold any ownership of the car. In fact I plan to get her to buy her own car to bring over to ireland at the same time



Be careful-by all means let your partner avail of the tax break too-thats whats its there for, but , the benifit of the exempted vehicle is attributable to you, and you alone. If you lend it,even free of charge, which is what having someone as a named drive is, you  are breaking the conditions attached to the break. Also you are only allowed to benefit on one vehicle-so if either of you are named on the others vehicle, this is seen as availing of two exemptions. Advise you to contact a VRT office -details on the web

[broken link removed] 

As your partner will have her own car to drive-will it be necessary for her to be on as a named driver? 
I got the Duty free exemption and got an X5. Intention to sell after one yr, now after almost 3 yrs, I still have it, and its still worth more than I paid-;-). Life is too short-will keep it unless I have to sell it. In Ireland a 3 series will be more saleable than a 5 series-in my opinion!


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## JakeB (21 Nov 2007)

Good call about the named driver, i'll look into it and if necessary just insure myself. I was looking at the X5's too, i'd quite fancy one, what type did you get?  3 years later and its still worth more than you paid - incredible!

I was just looking at road tax too, another Irish rip off story - belongs on another thread i guess but I pay GBP190 (€264)for my current car, a 2.4l petrol Accord which would cost me €786 in Ireland..


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## lorna (21 Nov 2007)

this is a subject i am interested in and have already been thinking about prior to this posting. We are moving back in July / August 2009 from London so seems silly not to make a handy profit.
what car / MPV / Jeep would people recommend taking back as a good resale opportunity ?
seems to be quite a difference in price on say a Toyota large MPV ? , or a VW Sharan ?
or as someone has already suggested a high spec BMW or Merc ?

i have seen some 06 BMW X5 3.0d Sports edition, 19,000 mls, auto, silver, diesel, a1 condition for between £25-27,000 and they seem to be 70-75,000 euros in ireland ! is this correct or am i missing something.  i know cars are expensive in ireland but this difference cant be right ?


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## JakeB (21 Nov 2007)

lorna - have a look here 

[broken link removed]

and here

[broken link removed]

the difference is due to vehicle registration tax (VRT). if you meet all the criteria to avoid taxation on your imported vehicle then its certainly worthwhile


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## lorna (21 Nov 2007)

JakeB, thanks for that, i will have a look through these sites. definitely going to do it, why not, especially as it is totally above board, nice tax free earner for a change !
also, according to the revenue site, you need to own the car in the UK for 12 months before moving back to ireland, not 6 months, is that correct ?  i always thought it was 6 months ?


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## ang1170 (21 Nov 2007)

JakeB said:


> Good call about the named driver, i'll look into it and if necessary just insure myself.


 
No need - you could name 100 people on the insurance, and that doesn't give them any claim to benefit from the sale. As far as I know they don't even check for insurance, never mind who's name is on it.

What they will check, and very scrupulously, is every last detail of the conditions attached to the exemption (i.e. are you genuinely moving residence, and what proof do you have).

I'd certainly check out the cost of insurance: I did this a few years back, discovered I couldn't afford to insure the car I was bringing in here and had to take it back and sell it.

Also: be very careful with choice of car. Most high-end cars have very heavy depreciation, some quite savage. Also, do not assume that the prices achieved by private sellers on places like Carzone are anything like those advertised: most people are very reluctant to buy privately something that costs say €50k, as they have no comback.

I'd be much more inclined to use it, as the other poster above has done, as an opportunity to get something you'd really like yourself, and keep it for a few years. You won't make a profit, but you'll have the pleasure of owning it, and the even better feeling of having been able to (legally) evade one of the most unfair and disliked taxes around.


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## dangerman (23 Nov 2007)

Hi also have a genuine VRT query:

My mother in law who is english is intending to move to Ireland in the latter half of next year. We have a young family and both of us work so she will be acting as our childminder. She retired from her work last year
She recently purchased a new Mondeo in the UK (she likes big cars) which she will be taking with her. Does anyone think she will have any difficulty in avoiding paying VRT?   
She will not be selling her UK property and will be living with us for initially. She retired from her work last year so she won't be able to produce any evidence of new employment. I don't even know if she needs a PPS no as she is receiving a pension in UK  
Any advise appreciate.


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## oopsbuddy (23 Nov 2007)

Another point that might be worth looking into is something I remember was well covered in the news a few years ago. UK residents commonly came over to Ireland to buy a new car from a dealer here and export it unregistered to the UK, thereby avoiding VAT in Ireland. When sterling was strong this was a well worn path for the UK buyers, and it was cheaper for them than buying teh same car in the UK. Then follow the 6 month ownership in the UK and 12 months here, and possibly get an even bigger saving. The more expensive the car, the bigger the saving for them. I openly admit I am not sure if this still applies, but could be worth investigating. I recall that when I was trying to buy a new car many years ago, the single biggest reason for the long delivery waiting times for a new car here was that the dealers here were so busy satisfying their UK customers first! As far as choice of car is concerned, saleability here is the biggest guarantee of decent resale value, so choose something that will sell easily here for good money, such as was suggested earlier, a good BMW diesel with loads of extras, like full leather etc.


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## dangerman (23 Nov 2007)

in reply to oopsbuddy "exporting un reg cars from Ireland to Uk" 
Yes I heard this. I spent a bit of time in around Newcastle and there is a  taxi company in Blyth called Phoenix. Around 4 years ago they purchased between 10-15 new cars from Ireland, Skoda Octavia and Surperbs ex vat


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## Persius (23 Nov 2007)

Might be worth buying the car 10 to 12 months before returning to IRL. That way you can insure it for 12 months in UK which is presumably cheaper. When you move to IRL, the insurance companies _might_ recognise your UK insurance and give you one year's no claims bonus discount.


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## pete123 (2 Jul 2008)

Hi guys,

First time poster so go easy on me... (sorry if my question has already been asked and answered a few times).

I'm planning to move to Ireland with my wife, and we'll have no problems with the residency rules.

My only question relates to lending the vehicle.  My wife will be the owner and registered keeper of the car, but according to the rules I wouldn't be allowed to drive it as you're not allowed to lend the car to anyone?
There are conflicting views in this thread - someone said it's fine to have an extra named driver on the insurance policy as the benefit from any sale still only relates to the owner, but someone else said that it's not the benefit from sale that counts, and that lending the car to anyone breaks the rules straight away.  This seems unfair on a husband and wife bringing a car over together - does anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Need to buy the car ASAP 

Thanks very much!
Pete.


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## NicolaM (2 Jul 2008)

Hi
I imported a car from the UK last year, and I was not allowed to have anyone else insured on it until 12 months post importation (ie the year that you have to keep the car , so you will not be liable for VRT). 
This was written on the documentation I got from the VRT office at the time.
You should contact your local VRO to confirm (details on [broken link removed] link).
I found the VRO helpful, but hard to get through to on the phone. They do respond to email questions also.
Nicola


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## pete123 (2 Jul 2008)

Hi Nicola,

Thanks for the speedy response!

I'll contact the VRO just to be 100% sure, but I was hoping that there's some kind of exception to the rule for husband / wives.  It seems a bit unfair if a family move over with a car, as it looks like only 1 person would be allowed to drive it for 12 months.  This probably wouldn't be practical for us and we'd have to pay the VRT as both my wife and I would need to drive the car in Ireland.

I'll let you know how I get on as soon as I have some news from the VRO (if they ever answer the phone!!!).

Cheers,
Pete.


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## pete123 (2 Jul 2008)

I just talked to someone at the VRO and he confirmed that it is fine for a husband AND wife to be insured on a car (providing that you meet all of the other VRT exemption requierements) and still avoid paying VRT.

He told me the rule that says you aren't allowed to lend the car to anyone in the first 12 months does not apply to spouses.

Hope this info helps anyone else moving to Ireland with families and a car!

Cheers,
Pete.


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## NicolaM (2 Jul 2008)

That's good to know.
I wonder if it applies to co-habiting couples too (My boyfriend hasn't been allowed to drive the car..)
Nicola


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## sse (2 Jul 2008)

Hi all

When did this come in? I imported a car under transfer of residence a year ago and I've just checked my registration certificate - there's absolutely nothing about insurance - just the note the "Disposal before xxxx requires revenue approval". There's nothing about insurance on that link BTW. Can anyone quote the text from their documentation?

SSE


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## NicolaM (3 Jul 2008)

Hi SSE
"Under the Transfer of Residence regulation only yourself or your spouse/partner, _*providing they transferred with you,*_ can drive the vehicle."(letter dated 7/Nov/2007)

(my italics)
That answers my own question, actually, as spouse/partner both mentioned.
However, it appears that they would have needed to have transferred back into the country too.
If not, then neither they, or anyone one else, may drive the vehicle according to this
Nicola


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## sse (3 Jul 2008)

thanks Nicola

Well I never knew that, although I can't see how it would be enforced - if you have the insurance disc etc. who's ever going to know?

I assume it's just for the first year anyway.

SSE


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## NicolaM (3 Jul 2008)

Hi sse,
I'm not sure how they could check.
Although if you're getting car insurance online, one of the Qs is if the car is imported.
Perhaps that would flag it to the insurance company, although I'm not quite sure why they'd care!
It is just for the first year (after registration date, not import date, by the way. My registraion date was some months after importing the car, bit of a pain), then you can do whatever you want with the car.
Certainly if you don't fufill the stated conditions, there is always the chance that you would have to pay the VRT that would have been owed if it wasn't a Transfer of Residence vehicle.
Nicola


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