# Morning Ireland interviews with three people facing difficulty getting on the housing ladder



## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Very interesting interviews this morning.

The first is a 26(I had earlier thought she said 36?) year old single woman living in the country. Not sure where. She is working. She will be on the housing list for another 10 years as she has no children. She has been advised to quit her job and have kids on her own to get on the housing list.

I have great sympathy for her. She should be prioritised on getting social housing close to where she is working.

People who are not working should be allocated housing wherever in the country it is available. Having children should not allow you skip the queue.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

The second was a woman renting with her husband and 5 children in Greystones. "We always wanted a big family and we want to stay in Greystones.We can afford to buy a house for €500k but there is nothing available in Greystones for us". 

People have to make choices. She is costing the taxpayer a fortune with her 5 children.  If she wants to have 5 kids, that is her business, but then she has got to make big sacrifices elsewhere.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

the third was an engaged couple living in Glenbeigh Co. Kerry. "We are not from the area, but we fell in love with the place and want to live here. We want to build our own home, but the planning won't allow us."

Presumably the scenic beauty of Glenbeigh is why they fell in love with the place and now they want to destroy it with a proliferation of one-off housing.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Here is the actual piece

Housing For All plan to be launched today​Amy Ní Riada speaks to those eagerly awaiting the details of the government's Housing For All plan.




www.rte.ie

Grace lives in Tralee is 26 and has been on the social housing list for 7 years. "I have been told by professional people to whom I went for advice, I would be better off if I quite my job, went on the dole, went away and had a child, alone . I would be far better off as a single mother not working. It's sad when you want to work.

For Rachel O'Sullivan in Greystones Co Wicklow, she says that having children was not the answer to her efforts to have a home. We cut our own cloth. We went on to have 5 children, that is what we wanted. We wanted a big family but we sacrificed a home because of that" Rachel's husband is earning 3 times the average wage and yet in 10 weeks's time when her lease is up, her family is facing the very real threat of becoming homeless. "We have mortgage approval for almost half a million euros but month by month it's getting further out of our reach. Moving out of Greystones is not an option for Rachel's young family...

Others haven't even got to the bidding stage even with two stable wages coming in. "Connie O'Connor . I live in Glenbeigh - I am from Cahirciveen and I want to settle down with my fiancée in the Glenbeigh area. "Unfortunately because we are not both from the Glenbeigh area we wouldn't be able to get planning if we bought a site because we don't have a history in the Glenbeigh area"

While all three are different, they have expectations from today's Housing for All Plan

Rachel: I would love to see a vacant house tax. This country badly needs it. I can drive two minutes from my house and there are new build estates that have houses empty in them for 4 years now. They are for sale for €585k and they won't take an offer under that. And those houses are empty now and they have been for 4 years.

Grace from Tralee: It's very easy for the government to support someone who doesn't have a job who is already on social welfare but I would like to see support for those who are "bursting" themselves week in week out


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## NoRegretsCoyote (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She is costing the taxpayer a fortune with her 5 children.


Unlikely on average. Over a lifetime they will pay a lot of taxes, including to fund your pension and mine.


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## PGF2016 (2 Sep 2021)

@Brendan Burgess - were any of the latter two cases challenged on their situations? 

I'm guessing the single lady was a low earner in that case she seems to have a genuine need for assistance. 

The other two cases are having difficulty getting on the housing ladder because of their own choices. 

I see it as nothing but a positive that the Glenbeigh couple are unable to get planning for one off housing.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Unlikely on average. Over a lifetime they will pay a lot of taxes, including to fund your pension and mine.


In the meantime it's costing between €35k-€40k a year to send them to school. Add in children's allowance, medical costs etc and the State is probably spending a minimum of €60,000 a year on them. Should they also get a free (or close to free) house in a high-cost area ahead of someone who can buy the same house on the open market.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Hi Purple
Just to be clear, the woman with the big family was not looking for social housing.  Her husband earns 3 times the national average salary. But she just wants to buy a house big enough for her big family in Greystones. 

I know people from Greystones who would love to stay in the area, but can't afford to.  They buy elsewhere and hope, that, in time, they can trade their way up and back.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

PGF2016 said:


> @Brendan Burgess - were any of the latter two cases challenged on their situations?



Not at all. 

They only challenge government politicians and bankers and landlords. 

Brendan


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Purple
> Just to be clear, the woman with the big family was not looking for social housing.  Her husband earns 3 times the national average salary. But she just wants to buy a house big enough for her big family in Greystones.
> 
> I know people from Greystones who would love to stay in the area, but can't afford to.  They buy elsewhere and hope, that, in time, they can trade their way up and back.
> ...


Fair enough. I'd also like lots of things I can't afford. Do you think morning Ireland would like to interview me?


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## Eireog007 (2 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> Fair enough. I'd also like lots of things I can't afford. Do you think morning Ireland would like to interview me?


Purple “I get very despondent at being priced out of the unicorn market”

Morning Ireland Presenter “What about that Minister, what are the government going to do about the provision of affordable Unicorns?!”


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Eireog007 said:


> Morning Ireland Presenter “What about that Minister, what are the government going to do about the provision of affordable Unicorns?!”



Minister: "Well Aine, my department is working on it and we hope to have a plan in place to provide them to everyone in the country by the end of next year. We have provided more free unicorns than any previous government."


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## PGF2016 (2 Sep 2021)

I, for one, am more than willing to pay a unicorn tax if it means every gets access to a unicorn. Unicorns are a human right.


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## locknbarrel (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Very interesting interviews this morning.
> 
> The first is a 36(?) year old single woman living in the country. Not sure where. She is working. She will be on the housing list for another 10 years as she has no children. She has been advised to quit her job and have kids on her own to get on the housing list.
> 
> ...


I listened back. First woman was 26. That does change it slightly. She's only starting out on her working life. A social house will station her in one area and will make her reluctant to move to take other opportunities.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

PGF2016 said:


> I, for one, am more than willing to pay a unicorn tax if it means every gets access to a unicorn. Unicorns are a human right.


We should have a constitutional amendment to enshrine the right to Unicorns. I'm sure there will be no unintended consequences and having it in our constitution will somehow make Unicorns available for all.


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## Itchy (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She is costing the taxpayer a fortune with her 5 children.





Purple said:


> In the meantime it's costing between €35k-€40k a year to send them to school. Add in children's allowance, medical costs etc and the State is probably spending a minimum of €60,000 a year on them. Should they also get a free (or close to free) house in a high-cost area ahead of someone who can buy the same house on the open market.



Why have you chosen to make these snide, _ad hominem_ comments? You didn't even read the circumstances, she wasn't looking for "a free house", yet straight to turning her circumstances against her. How is she responsible for what the state policy on family is? If I need help with housing and I receive another benefit by default, should I be excluded? 

She clearly has to cut her cloth, she was lamenting the housing crisis forcing her to make choices between buying a (suitable) house and staying in her community. The housing market has outperformed expectations considerably in the last year or two and you're holding child benefit and children's schooling against her.


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## Eireog007 (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Minister: "Well Aine, my department is working on it and we hope to have a plan in place to provide them to everyone in the country by the end of next year. We have provided more free unicorns than any previous government."


Oddly enough I think a government representative promising unicorns to everybody in the country, being 5 years late and €1 Billion over budget to finally deliver a load of donkeys with dildos strapped to their heads is an apt metaphor for all Irish government policies.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

Eireog007 said:


> Oddly enough I think a government representative promising unicorns to everybody in the country, being 5 years late and €1 Billion over budget to finally deliver a load of donkeys with dildos strapped to their heads is an apt metaphor for all Irish government policies.


Brilliant.


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## PGF2016 (2 Sep 2021)

Eireog007 said:


> Oddly enough I think a government representative promising unicorns to everybody in the country, being 5 years late and €1 Billion over budget to finally deliver a load of donkeys with dildos strapped to their heads is an apt metaphor for all Irish government policies.


Brilliant.

On a more serious note I think the guests on Morning Ireland were poorly chosen if they wanted to highlight a housing crisis.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Why have you chosen to make these snide, _ad hominem_ comments? You didn't even read the circumstances, she wasn't looking for "a free house", yet straight to turning her circumstances against her.


Brendan correct me on that and I said "Fair enough".


Itchy said:


> How is she responsible for what the state policy on family is?


She's not. 


Itchy said:


> If I need help with housing and I receive another benefit by default, should I be excluded?


No, you should be grateful and do everything you can to become self reliant so that you don't have to live off your neighbours.



Itchy said:


> She clearly has to cut her cloth, she was lamenting the housing crisis forcing her to make choices between buying a (suitable) house and staying in her community.


I'm in the same boat. I don't expect other people to subsidise my wants.


Itchy said:


> The housing market has outperformed expectations considerably in the last year or two and you're holding child benefit and children's schooling against her.


No, I'm pointing out that there is already a massive social transfer to middle income families from single people and rich people.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

PGF2016 said:


> Brilliant.
> 
> On a more serious note I think the guests on Morning Ireland were poorly chosen if they wanted to highlight a housing crisis.


Morning Ireland, and RTE in general, frame everything in a human interest context. It raises emotions and dampens down the rational part of the listeners brain.


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Sep 2021)

They’re brought on to troll the general population and to generate clicks. Some woman with 5 kids whinging about not being able to buy a house. You couldn’t make it up.

Eireog007 may be on to something though; Three of those donkeys with dildos stuck on their heads in a petting zoo; maybe paint them pink or purple as well?

And then call it the ‘Menagerie a Trois’? Or the ‘Heavy Petting Zoo’?


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## PebbleBeach2020 (2 Sep 2021)

i don't like the tone in this thread at all. I didn't hear the interview. I have sympathy for the first lady absolutely. She is working and because of that and not having kids, she is being left to fend for herself.

The second lady, she wanted a big family. That's her choice, best of luck to her. If she was claiming everything available to her, she'd be lambasted. Her husband has a great job and earns a fine salary (by all accounts) and they have a budgetof 500k to purchase a house. Surely, in a normal functioning economy and building sector, 500k would be sufficient to purchase a 4 bedroom home for her family. Yes some of the kids will have to share if it's a four bed. But giving out about how much her kids cost the state, bloody here lads. Kids cost money, this couple can well afford to raise their kids, they aren't looking for a free house, they want to be able to purchase a home to suit their needs (presuming she doesn't want a 6 bed detached or anything?!). I would have sympathy for her situation also.

The final couple in Glenbeigh (blow-ins) they want to move to a rural location. Isn't that something that is being talked about being encouraged?! Perhaps if an estate development in the area was under construction, they and others similar in their sitation would purchase in an estate setting in the area and the demand for one off housing would wane. I would have the least sympathy for this couple out of the three situations, but at the same time, the point here is the lack of development in rural areas, moving away from one off houses, when moving to such areas will help reinvigour such areas, arrest decline and can bring live back to such areas.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (2 Sep 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Some woman with 5 kids whinging about not being able to buy a house. You couldn’t make it up.


Absolutely shocking talk imo. What has the number of kids she has got to do with anything? You are being very unfair. Again, they can afford 500k purchase of  house. How much tax is this man paying on a salary of probably 120k a year?????


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## Eireog007 (2 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> Brilliant.


Always nice to be appreciated


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

PGF2016 said:


> On a more serious note I think the guests on Morning Ireland were poorly chosen if they wanted to highlight a housing crisis.



I thought that the selection was quite good. 

It highlighted for me how some people have unreasonable expectations.  And the government can't meet all of them.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> What has the number of kids she has got to do with anything? You are being very unfair.



She wants to have a big family, and that is their choice.

But they are going to have to make sacrifices if they make that choice.

She is complaining that she can't live in Greystones a highly desirably area with very high house prices. 

If she said "We wanted to have a big family so we relocated to Leitrim where we could afford to buy a 6 bed house on an acre of land" , I would say, fair play to her.

It seems that we have developed a culture in Ireland where people want something so they think that they have a right to it and don't have to make a sacrifice to get it. 

Brendan


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## skrooge (2 Sep 2021)

I didn't hear any of these. I must listen back. 

Before I do...We have limited social housing. It'll take time to build up supply - if we ever do. But before that we need to prioritise the least well off.  

What is the 26 year olds current housing situation. Put bluntly what's the case for having her on the list at all? Fair enough if we're drowning in social housing let's help all but we're not. Unfortunately it's the squeezed middle that will be helped last.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> and they have a budgetof 500k to purchase a house. Surely, in a normal functioning economy and building sector, 500k would be sufficient to purchase a 4 bedroom home for her family.


Plenty of 4 bedroom houses within her budget within a 5kn radius of Greystones so Good news!


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## Leo (2 Sep 2021)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> Isn't that something that is being talked about being encouraged?! Perhaps if an estate development in the area was under construction, they and others similar in their sitation would purchase in an estate setting in the area and the demand for one off housing would wane.


You missed the 'We want to build our own home, but the planning won't allow us' bit. 

While it's true government policy is to encourage more settlement outside of Dublin, the goal is for this to be more sustainable and less environmentally damaging way, and to focus development around towns and not every tiny village in the country. Some counties will allow one-off housing in more remote areas where they have identified a need to revitalise a local community, but Glenbeigh certainly does not fall into that category.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

skrooge said:


> Before I do...We have limited social housing.


We have 170,000 social housing units in Ireland. Another 65,000 are provided through HAPS and other schemes which compete with the private market. That's over 20% of the housing stock.


skrooge said:


> It'll take time to build up supply - if we ever do. But before that we need to prioritise the least well off.


Why? I think we should prioritise working people on low incomes.


skrooge said:


> What is the 26 year olds current housing situation. Put bluntly what's the case for having her on the list at all? Fair enough if we're drowning in social housing let's help all but we're not.


Agreed.

the good news generally is that there are still more than 2000 unsold affordable houses around the country.


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## PGF2016 (2 Sep 2021)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> I have sympathy for the first lady absolutely. She is working and because of that and not having kids, she is being left to fend for herself.


Why shouldn't she fend for herself? She's 26 and working. Why doesn't she save for a few years? Come back when she has saved diligently and is still unable to afford a house and then by all means she should look for assistance.


PebbleBeach2020 said:


> The second lady, she wanted a big family. That's her choice, best of luck to her. If she was claiming everything available to her, she'd be lambasted. Her husband has a great job and earns a fine salary (by all accounts) and they have a budgetof 500k to purchase a house. Surely, in a normal functioning economy and building sector, 500k would be sufficient to purchase a 4 bedroom home for her family. Yes some of the kids will have to share if it's a four bed. But giving out about how much her kids cost the state, bloody here lads


One poster mentioned the cost to the state. 

Dublin (and the surrounding area) is thriving. Property is expensive. It's the same the world over. This isn't a problem specific to Ireland. 

And €500k is sufficient to purchase a 4 bed home in many locations. Just not her preferred location. 

On the salary mentioned they can have, within reason, anything they want in life, just not everything.


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## skrooge (2 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> We have 170,000 social housing units in Ireland. Another 65,000 are provided through HAPS and other schemes which compete with the private market. That's over 20% of the housing stock.


So we have 170k social housing.... The rest is just papering over the cracks of insufficient social housing and pushing up rents for all. 



Purple said:


> Why? I think we should prioritise working people on low incomes.


What would you do with people on no income?


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## Itchy (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She wants to have a big family, and that is their choice.
> 
> But they are going to have to make sacrifices if they make that choice.
> 
> ...



I actually listened to this piece on the back of your comments, which in my view are completely unreasonable.

Yes she acknowledged that she has a big family and she also acknowledged that she has scarified the opportunity of purchasing a house because of that.

Yes she is complaining she cant live in Greystones, but she is complaining that she has been ready to buy for two years and the market has accelerated away from her. She is now in a position that her lease is up. And specifically in relation to Purples comment:



Purple said:


> Plenty of 4 bedroom houses within her budget within a 5kn radius of Greystones so Good news!


She noted that she cant even get to bidding stage because the house listed for 500k already has a bid of +40/50k before she can get to view it.

Further, she noted that 5min from her house there are new builds for 585k that have been vacant for 4 years, and they wont accept any offers under that.



Brendan Burgess said:


> It seems that we have developed a culture in Ireland where people want something so they think that they have a right to it and don't have to make a sacrifice to get it.



From my listening to the piece, you have misrepresented the comments of this particular speaker. She was complaining about not being able to buy in her community, that's it. At no point did she indicate that she expected to have a right to anything. How did you infer that from what she said?

She didn't "use" the fact she has a large family in any way to look for some sort of help. It seems to me that her issues are all meritorious and they are the same as those reflected here (and elsewhere):





__





						Central Bank wants your views on the mortgage lending limits
					

You can calculate the amount someone can borrow using any criteria you like but things happen that screw up the best laid plans and those things are more likely to cause people on low incomes to be unable to pay their mortgage.  Indeed but you originally argued that using net disposable, as...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				




In fact on that thread, you said (reasonably):



Brendan Burgess said:


> We have to focus on the real problems which are the lack of houses available for first time buyers and their high prices because it's expensive to build them and because investors are buying them to rent for social housing.



I still cant understand why you brought up the fact and implied, that someone cant participate in the housing discussion because state pays her her kids schooling? Like she wasn't grateful enough to participate?  

I think you'll feel better if you 'talk to Joe'...


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

skrooge said:


> So we have 170k social housing.... The rest is just papering over the cracks of insufficient social housing and pushing up rents for all.


How many free (almost) houses do you think we should provide?
I'd rather see the oligopoly that controls development land tackled, the tax system used to punish land hording, the State support companies that manufacture off-site housing modules and all of the other issues that cause houses be unaffordable for so many people.  


skrooge said:


> What would you do with people on no income?


What people with no income? 
There are plenty of people with no job but the tax payer gives them an income. If you don't have a job you are mobile. They should be given social housing in a lower cost part of the country.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

PGF2016 said:


> On the salary mentioned they can have, within reason, anything they want in life, just not everything.



PGF , that is a great line. Expect to see me plagiarising it at the next opportunity.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> From my listening to the piece, you have misrepresented the comments of this particular speaker. She was complaining about not being able to buy in her community, that's it. At no point did she indicate that she expected to have a right to anything.



She was complaining about not being able to buy a house in Greystones.  In other words, there is something wrong with the system that she can't have 5 children and live in a big house in Greystones.   She was interviewed as a victim of the housing crisis.  She is not. 

She can well afford to have 5 children, if admittedly, at my expense.  Or she can afford to live in Greystones.

As a wise man once said, "she can have anything she wants, just not everything she wants." 

Brendan


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## joe sod (2 Sep 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> They’re brought on to troll the general population and to generate clicks. Some woman with 5 kids whinging about not being able to buy a house. You couldn’t make it up.


They must be copying the channel 5 documentary format, such riveting viewing like
"On Benefits and Proud" or
"Bargain Brits on Benefits"
Very revealing though especially when they turn up their noses at low paid jobs in hospitality or construction as beneath them and that benefits are their right .
It's also honest and funny though which is why channel 5 has gone down this road.
I doubt they would get this honesty from the "middle-class"


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Sep 2021)

Having 5 kids and one’s housing requirements are kind of related, no?

So only a fool would go on the airwaves and say “look at me, I have 5 kids, and I’m struggling to find a suitable home in the area I want”.

Laughable.


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## Itchy (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She was complaining about not being able to buy a house in Greystones.  In other words, there is something wrong with the system that she can't have 5 children and live in a big house in Greystones.   She was interviewed as a victim of the housing crisis.  She is not.
> 
> She can well afford to have 5 children, if admittedly, at my expense.  Or she can afford to live in Greystones.
> 
> ...



There is something wrong with the system! 

Stereotyping and generalisation (of c. 45 secs of radio) brought you to your conclusions.


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## Itchy (2 Sep 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Having 5 kids and one’s housing requirements are kind of related, no?



Apparently Brendan is paying for them so it shouldn't be a factor...



Gordon Gekko said:


> So only a fool would go on the airwaves and say “look at me, I have 5 kids, and I’m struggling to find a suitable home in the area I want”.



Ah here! She clearly said in the piece that there is a suitable vacant property in the area, that they wont accept an offer on.


Strategically vacant property, artificially inflating market prices in a supply crisis - No comment

5 kids in the family - Too bad, move to Leitrim


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Apparently Brendan is paying for them so it shouldn't be a factor...


Well he is. Single people on high incomes pay for most things in this country. I've 4 kids; thanks Brendan! 


Itchy said:


> Ah here! She clearly said in the piece that there is a suitable vacant property in the area, that they wont accept an offer on.
> 
> 
> Strategically vacant property, artificially inflating market prices in a supply crisis - No comment


Yes, that's a problem. The owner should be taxed each year that they are empty. Maybe a 10% rate would get the houses on the market.


Itchy said:


> 5 kids in the family - Too bad, move to Leitrim


Or Bray, or an available suitable house a 5 minute drive away. Leitrim is a bit far, although there's no shortage of grey stones there.


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## The Horseman (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Apparently Brendan is paying for them so it shouldn't be a factor...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why should an offer be accepted?

Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage? 

Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.


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## Purple (2 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> Why should an offer be accepted?
> 
> Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?


Totally different thing. The value of a house is as much a reflection of government policy as anything else.



The Horseman said:


> Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.


Housing is more than just a private business. There is a public good aspect to the provision of housing.
We use the taxation system for social engineering all the time. The developer doesn't have to sell the property but we should use that taxation system to encourage them to do so.


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## The Horseman (2 Sep 2021)

Purple said:


> Totally different thing. The value of a house is as much a reflection of government policy as anything else.
> 
> 
> Housing is more than just a private business. There is a public good aspect to the provision of housing.
> We use the taxation system for social engineering all the time. The developer doesn't have to sell the property but we should use that taxation system to encourage them to do so.


 It's not a totally different thing. You want to force the other party to accept your condition. Why should one party be treated more favourably than the other. Both parties should be free to agree a deal that both are happy with.

Housing in the private market is a private business. We may use the taxation system for social good but it should not be so punitive for those who actually take the risk to provide for themselves. 

If the value of developers property fell below the price to cover his costs and make no profit at all would you be in favour of giving him a profit from State funds?


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## Itchy (2 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> Why should an offer be accepted?
> 
> Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?
> 
> Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.



I'm not saying any offer should be accepted, I'm not saying her offer should be accepted. I am saying speculative land hoarding is driving up market prices having a real impact on peoples lives. This is the issue, not the number of lattes they drink or what class their kids are in. Everyone has to cut their cloth, I think everyone acknowledges that.

In another thread you acknowledge a lack of supply but you don't think vacant properties are factor or part of a solution? Private property rights are absolute?

Property is a business, but you cant build what you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. There have always been conditions of use.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Hi Itchy 

Here is the actual piece 









						Housing For All plan to be launched today
					

Amy Ní Riada speaks to those eagerly awaiting the details of the government's Housing For All plan.




					www.rte.ie
				




Grace lives in Tralee is 26 and has been on the social housing list for 7 years.  "I have been told by professional people to whom I went for advice, I would be better off if I quite my job, went on the dole, went away and had a child, alone . I would be far better off as a single mother not working. It's sad when you want to work.

For   Rachel  O'Sullivan in Greystones Co Wicklow, she says that having children was not the answer to her efforts to have a home.  We cut our own cloth. We went on to have 5 children, that is what we wanted. We wanted a big family but we sacrificed a home because of that" Rachel's husband is earning 3 times the average wage and yet in 10 weeks's time when her lease is up, her family is facing the very real threat of becoming homeless. "We have mortgage approval for almost half a million euros but month by month it's getting further out of our reach. Moving out of Greystones is not an option for Rachel's young family...

Others haven't even got to the bidding stage even with two stable wages coming in. "Connie O'Connor . I live in Glenbeigh - I am from Cahirciveen and I want to settle down with my fiancée in the Glenbeigh area. "Unfortunately because we are not both from the Glenbeigh area we wouldn't be able to get planning if we bought a site because we don't have a history in the Glenbeigh area" 

While all three are different, they have expectations from today's Housing for All Plan 

Rachel: I would love to see a vacant house tax. This country badly needs it. I can drive two minutes from my house and there are new build estates that have houses empty in them for 4 years now. They are for sale for €585k and they won't take an offer under that. And those houses are empty now and they have been for 4 years. 

Grace from Tralee: It's very easy for the government to support someone who doesn't have a job who is already on social welfare but I would like to see support for those who are "bursting" themselves week in week out


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Rachel's husband is earning 3 times the average wage and yet in 10 weeks' time when her lease is up, her family is facing the very real threat of becoming homeless.



This was a ridiculous comment by the reporter.  But in this mad world, maybe someone earning €120k who refuses to move out of one of the areas with the highest house prices in Ireland, would make it into the homeless stats.

But when they classify people in this situation as homeless, they demean the people who are genuinely homeless.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Stereotyping and generalisation (of c. 45 secs of radio) brought you to your conclusions.



Hi Itchy 

She is very typical of people's attitude to housing over the years. 

Most people I know would have loved to stay in the area where they were born. But they couldn't afford to. And they just bought where they could afford.  Most people I know deferred having kids until they had got the house.  But some people choose to have kids and then complain that they can't buy a house.  

Or they have kids to go higher on the housing waiting list. 

It's a mad system.

Brendan


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## andrew2000ad (2 Sep 2021)

Don't really want to rant and derail - But I can at least toss in my knowledge on Greystones.

I'm across the road from those new houses. They are massively oversubscribed with buyers. Essentially they are all sold for the next few phases, and Sherry Fitz are just shopping for the perfect buyers at this stage. I'm not sure if there is a bidding war, but they certainly are not waiting for anyone to get a Mortgage in place.

Those vacant houses - They are from the same developer (Cairn Homes) and are across the road. There's 3-4 of them sitting empty, and it's difficult to get a straight answer on why. They have sat empty since I moved in 2 years ago. The house I'm in sat empty for a year and a half. I know someone trying to buy either one of the empty houses, or one in Archers wood - and they are just not open to offers for either.

Second hand houses are naturally in bidding wars.

Other big issues in the area in short are the School and Creche shortages, and Transport to Dublin getting very bad south of Greystones (assuming Dublin jobs given the price of houses). You can move further South, but the sacrifices seem pretty major. It's difficult to keep the high paying job while ferrying kids to scattered Schools.

Where should they live I suppose? Stay and rent - I'd worry a lot about being priced out on Rent, and I'd go any Morning Ireland and complain before waiting for it to happen.
Up and move to (again presuming Dublin jobs) a more affordable side of Dublin I guess, Wicklow not an option at all.


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## jpd (2 Sep 2021)

The population of Greystones and surrounding area has grown in line with the development plans set out 5, 10 and more years ago. The population growth is defined by central Government and then pushed down on the counties for incorporation into the 5 year plans.

Newly built housing in Greystones area is in line with the planned population increases - unfortunately, this being Ireland, other resources have not followed or rather preceded the housing/population increase (schools, creches, transport, etc etc ) and so are woefully lacking.


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## odyssey06 (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> This was a ridiculous comment by the reporter.  But in this mad world, maybe someone earning €120k who refuses to move out of one of the areas with the highest house prices in Ireland, would make it into the homeless stats.
> 
> But when they classify people in this situation as homeless, they demean the people who are genuinely homeless.


None of those people are homeless.

And the solutions to the 'on the streets' homeless has very little to do with the wider housing market issues of supply and rising prices.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Sep 2021)

andrew2000ad said:


> They are from the same developer (Cairn Homes) and are across the road.



Andrew that is very interesting. 

Are you sure that Cairn Homes still owns them? Could they have sold them and the new owners have decided not to sell them? 

It would make no sense for Cairn Homes to hoard sellable houses.  
They make their money from developing and building homes.
They don't want a lot of capital tied up in houses.

If they were taking some bet on the market, then they wouldn't be selling any homes.

It's odd that they are trying to sell homes and yet, at the same time,  won't sell two or three in the same or in a nearby development.

The only thing I can think of is that they signed contracts to sell them and the buyers didn't honour them and so they are subject to legal action.  But with house price rises, they should just sell them to new buyers if their contracts allow them to do that.

Brendan


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## The Horseman (2 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> I'm not saying any offer should be accepted, I'm not saying her offer should be accepted. I am saying speculative land hoarding is driving up market prices having a real impact on peoples lives. This is the issue, not the number of lattes they drink or what class their kids are in. Everyone has to cut their cloth, I think everyone acknowledges that.
> 
> In another thread you acknowledge a lack of supply but you don't think vacant properties are factor or part of a solution? Private property rights are absolute?
> 
> Property is a business, but you cant build what you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. There have always been conditions of use.


Where did I make any reference to the number of lattes etc. 

I have not changed my view that supply is the issue. The issue I have is that people/businesses who speculated should not be forced be it punitive taxes etc for their speculation working out. 

If the State wants to resolve the issue then let it build on its own land. Vacant properties are the owners to do what they want with them. They legally own them. I don't accept that owners should be forced to do anything other than maintain the property that's its safe. 

Private property owners if they leave them empty is their right. If I have a second property that I want to leave vacant then why are your rights more than mine because you want to live in it. We are both citizens of the State and should both have equal rights. Why should yours trump mine?

Yes property is a business but the State are constantly changing the terms of business. 

I have asked this same question on multiple occasions and have yet to get an answer. Who is going to pay for all these properties. People say the costs are to high but we have scarce raw materials and construction labour so people want increased building regs,insulation and energy efficient properties but don't want to pay the costs associated with achieving theses levels.


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## The Horseman (2 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Itchy
> 
> She is very typical of people's attitude to housing over the years.
> 
> ...



This particularly struck a chord with me. Here we have a woman at the age of 19 goes on the housing list. 

Based solely on the person's age of 19 they have not even tried to look after their long term housing needs rather made a conscious decision that the State would house her long term. 

I don't have an issue with someone in their late 30's or early 40's being housed by the State having spent 15 or 20 yrs actually trying to sort their housing situation for the long term.


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## Introuble83 (2 Sep 2021)

As someone with a large family I feel the woman should purchase a 3 bed in her preferred area and extend the downstairs or convert the attic. This would be a regular occurrence for large families. No need to go on national tv and complain about the housing crises in my opinion


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## gianni (2 Sep 2021)

Not sure that the argument of "staying in their community" should be entertained. 

Its not like we live in a sprawling landmass with drastically different cultures, dialects and customs. You'll always find like minded people in whatever community you live in.


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## Purple (3 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> This particularly struck a chord with me. Here we have a woman at the age of 19 goes on the housing list.
> 
> Based solely on the person's age of 19 they have not even tried to look after their long term housing needs rather made a conscious decision that the State would house her long term.


If you were 19 and you knew that if you put your name on the housing list you'd be given an almost free house in 10-15 years why wouldn't you put your name on the housing list? Getting a Council House is like winning the Lottery. You'd be crazy not to. 
The same applied to couples who have kids where he buys the house and rents it to her. She's officially a single parent so gets HAPS. The State then pays their mortgage for them. They would be mad not to do it. 

As long as the system is structured as it is we'll always have a 'Homeless problem'.
As long as the State is using the taxes they gather from potential first time buyers to price them out of the market we'll have a problem with first time buyers not being able to access the market.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Sep 2021)

Greystones Rachel was back on this morning giving her views of the Housing for All plan

She was introduced by Rachel English as "facing eviction in 10 weeks' time." RTE missed an opportunity to describe her as "homeless". 

She is "seriously  disappointed and underwhelmed" . 

She said we need a Vacant House tax now.

She said that Help to Buy and Shared Equity are shown to inflate prices but the government will go ahead with it anyway.

The funniest bit was "I'm ready to leave the country, if it wasn't for the fact that I have five children..."

She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.

Brendan


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## Purple (3 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.


Yea, it's really hard to take RTE seriously when their flagship news program is so utterly tabloid. I know they have a strong left-wing populist agenda but there's just no effort to actually be journalists. These are the same people who turn their noses up at Fox News.


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## PaddyBloggit (3 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.


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## Itchy (3 Sep 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.



Its not called Brayruit for nothing...

Ridiculous comment TBF


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## odyssey06 (3 Sep 2021)

Itchy said:


> Its not called Brayruit for nothing...
> 
> Ridiculous comment TBF


According to the Irish Times* there is a lot of prejudice against Greystonians from other parts of South Dublin... the epithet 'Sand People' has been applied to them.

* ref: Ross O'Carroll Kelly


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## time to plan (3 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> Why should an offer be accepted?
> 
> Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?
> 
> Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.


Depends on your view of the public interest. Everyone but the craziest libertarians accepts that the state has the right to tax incomes and / or assets, so private property is clearly not sancosanct. So why should land, bricks and mortar be exempt from a taxation regimen that encourages productive use (in this case habitation)?


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## The Horseman (3 Sep 2021)

time to plan said:


> Depends on your view of the public interest. Everyone but the craziest libertarians accepts that the state has the right to tax incomes and / or assets, so private property is clearly not sancosanct. So why should land, bricks and mortar be exempt from a taxation regimen that encourages productive use (in this case habitation)?


I did not say the State should not tax income or assets. It is the level of taxation that I have an issue with or the forcing people to act in a particular way by introducing punitive tax regime.

If I did not have a car and yours was sitting outside your house and I needed a car to get to work because of no public transport to were I work should you be forced to let me use yours? 

Or should you be taxed even more on your car as it is not being used productively to get me to work and others like me for the good of society and by extent public interest?

Why not go further and force companies to pay the wages you think people deserve. 

When exactly do individuals accept life is about choices and you need to live with the consequences of your choices rather than always expecting to be bailed out by the State (ie the taxpayer)


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## misemoi (4 Sep 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> According to the Irish Times* there is a lot of prejudice against Greystonians from other parts of South Dublin... the epithet 'Sand People' has been applied to them.
> 
> * ref: Ross O'Carroll Kelly


Despite the best efforts of estate agents, Greystones is in Wicklow, but perhaps culturally it's South Dublin


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## Purple (6 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> Why not go further and force companies to pay the wages you think people deserve.


Isn't that what Unions and collective wage agreements etc do?


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## time to plan (6 Sep 2021)

The Horseman said:


> I did not say the State should not tax income or assets. It is the level of taxation that I have an issue with or the forcing people to act in a particular way by introducing punitive tax regime.
> 
> If I did not have a car and yours was sitting outside your house and I needed a car to get to work because of no public transport to were I work should you be forced to let me use yours?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you're talking about cars. Sounds like some kind of slippery slope fallacy argument. The availability of cars is not constrained by planning policy, so is quite different from housing. Your comment around 'why not go further...' suggests to me that you may like to employ the slippery slope fallacy rather than argue a point on its merits, but apologies if I am mistaken there.

And I'm unsure why you would associate a taxation regimen to encourage people who have empty properties to put them into use with individuals 'always expecting to be bailed out by the State (ie the taxpayer)'. Most bizarre.


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## Cervelo (7 Sep 2021)

misemoi said:


> Despite the best efforts of estate agents, Greystones is in Wicklow, but perhaps culturally it's South Dublin


My parents made the move to Greystones in '79 and though I didn't want to go as a twelve year old I had no choice
My friends in school were all South Dublin based and started to slag me about being a Wicklow culchie
My only retort was that I may live in Wicklow but we're still in the 01 directory


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