# Extra help for my 6 yo? Returned from UK should be in SInfants but now in JInfants.



## samanthajane (30 Apr 2009)

For the first 2 terms of this school year my daughter was is England. And had come on leaps and bounds.

She should be in senior infants but because there was no room left in the class has had to be put back to junior infants, and she is totally bored out of her head. 

We might have the option of pushing her forward this september to 2nd class, so instead of being a year behind she would be a year ahead. 

She does get some extra homework to do every night but in her words "it's too easy i want harder homework"

Her teacher is very good and does try to do other things with her in class, and i totally understand that she has 30 odd other children to teach as well so she cant spend time planning out extra different work to what the rest of the class is doing. 

Is it a good idea to get extra help for her so we could push her forward a class or am i better off keeping her the year behind. 

I try to do extra work with her at home as well, i give her new spellings every day and on a friday we have have a test, and i'm keeping up her reading as well, but i'm not a teacher and i dont know if i'm actually helping her or making things harder for her. I remember a few years ago helping my son and the teacher had to tell me to stop because i was confusing him with his reading because i was trying to teach him a different way to what she was. 

She's so eager to learn and i dont want to hold her back, but i dont want to push her either. I think she would be well able to handle the work in second class it's just getting her up to that level from now to september, we couldn't just put her into second class in september with the level of work she is doing at the moment, she would need the extra lesons. 

I'm not one of these mothers who thinks their child is a genious and wants to just push and push them, but she is a very bright young girl, loves school, homework and picks things up very quickly. Totally different to her brother who hates anything to do with school and it's a battle each and every night to get even half of his homework done. 

So should i leave her where she is or try and get her into 2nd class in September?


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## Red (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

So am I correct here - your options are progress to senior infants next year or second class.
Have you an option to put her in first class??

Would not recommend a jump from infants to second class ? The rest of class will be ahead in terms of reading, spelling & maths. As it is a first communion yer not much room to catch up. She will also be the youngest!

What does the teacher suggest ?


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## Smashbox (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

You should talk to the teachers. As if she could use a book from her 'proper' senior infants class to keep up with work.

I know when I was in primary school (long long time ago!) I was given an additional English book because I was mad into English, the teacher sourced out a different book and so I was happy enough. When I finished that one, he would get me another and so on. 

As for help Sam


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## samanthajane (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Sorry if i wasn't clear. 

She should be in senior infants at the moment going into 1st class in september, but was put back a year because no room in the class. So it's not an option for her to go into 1st class this september unless a few children dont come back to the school, because the senior infants class that is full at the moment will be the 1st class in september. So there will still be no places. 

She may be the youngest if she goes into 2nd class, but she's the oldest in her class at the moment. She's 6 1/2 where as some of the other children are having their 5th birthdays at the moment. 

Thats why i was thinking of getting her the extra help, so from now till september she would be doing the same kind of work as what the 1st class are doing at the moment so she would be around the same level as what they are going into 2nd class. 

Have spoken to the head teacher who said the main focus would be to improve her irish ( she goes to a irish speaking school ) she cant go into 1st class now as being away for 2 terms her irish is not to the level it should be for her to be in first class. All the irish i speak i have kept it up but i've not been able to take her further. 

In terms of reading, spelling and maths i've looked at some of the books for 1st class and they are not that much more advanced to the work she was doing in England. When she started school in England she was way behind the other pupils but she had extra help each day and her teacher even said she was amazed at how much she had advanced in just the 2 terms. When she left she was at the top of her class. 

At the moment she isn't learning anything she doesn't already know, she would need to continue doing the same level of work she was doing. I cant give her that which is why i wanted to get her help to keep her at the same standard.


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## gillarosa (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

I wouldn't recommend it, unless the extra school or home work her Teacher has done with her is part of the Curriculum of 1st Class which isn't likely as she has a Class full of Junior Infants. The curriculum of 2nd Class is dependant on the Child's gained knowledge of the prior three years and there are some major new developments such as being required to write in Irish rather than reading or aural work. Also, if it is a Catholic School there can often be a huge chunk of the School year from after New Year until May where preparation for the Sacrament is given a huge amount of time and that may not assist her in catching up either.


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## gipimann (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Just a couple of thoughts, based on my own experience (many years ago!) of being moved up a year (I did first and second class in one school year).   May not be an issue nowadays, but here goes anyway.

If your daughter is going to be a year younger than her classmates in 2nd class, she will always be a year younger than her classmates right through primary and into secondary school.   Might not make a difference now, but when the class is 14-15 and she's 13 it might be a different story.

I always felt I missed out on social development because I was with older children (who were a bit wary of this "smart one" coming into their class!).  But that could just have been me 

There used to be minimum age limits for the Inter/Junior Cert state exam - a child had to be 14 years old by 1st January in the year the exam was taken.  I made the deadline by a few weeks but a classmate of mine (who'd also skipped a year) didn't make it and couldn't sit the exam.  The school then had to get an exemption from the Dept of Education and Science to sit the Leaving Cert.

There was no transition year in my day, so I completed my secondary school education at age 16 - a bit young to be going to college if that's the proposed route (wasn't in my case, I went to work instead!).


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## thedaras (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Also, She would be too young too make her communion,I believe children must be 8,but open to correction on that one.

I was in a similar position in that I had moved from one county to another ,in one area the child was to start school in the september of the year he was 4,so on advice from playschool teacher and principal ,he started when he was 4 in the august,however when we moved the new school would not take kids under 5,so he had to go back to playschool untill the following september,which meant he was 5 in the august.

He was totally bored in junior infants,bored in senior infants,bored in 1st, 2nd ,and 3rd,but now hes in 4th class and its begining to even out more.
During his "boring "times he was given extra work to do,so he wouldnt get too bored or disruptive!

It also gave him huge confidence ,as all through school he tended to be the brightest in the class,( more due to the fact that he was the oldest .).

If I had moved him up a couple of years or a year he would have been ok,but would not have gained that confidence.And could have gone from being the brightest in the class to being the one to struggle.

Its a pity she cant be moved up just one year as that would be perfect ,could you plead with the principal? It can happen that kids leave that year for various reasons and espically in this economy,you may find a lot of people moving or leaving the country.
Best of luck ..


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## michaelm (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

In my experience the expect work rate and ability ramps up quickly between 1st and 2nd class.  To be 7 in 2nd class would seem young to me.  Better bored than struggling.  Keep in touch with the school, a place may well become available.


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## thedaras (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Can I also tell you that I was moved from 5th class to 1st year in secondary school,that meant that I had to make my confirmation in secondary school!! Oh the slagging was fierce!! But altough there were valid reasons for my being put forward,I dont think it was the correct decision ,in my case anyway,as socially it has an effect when all around you are 2 years older.


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## dereko1969 (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

I'm sorry I can't help the OP with advice on this one but could people generally refrain from the presumption included in a number of posts here that everyone in the country is a Roman Catholic?


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## Smashbox (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



dereko1969 said:


> I'm sorry I can't help the OP with advice on this one but could people generally refrain from the presumption included in a number of posts here that everyone in the country is a Roman Catholic?


 
Where was that?


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## AlbacoreA (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Whats the rush anyway. When you are in college or other it won't matter a bit if you are a year or two older or younger than those around you. 

Socially during school years it makes the most impact. 

Can you move her to a school where she can be with others the same age?


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## csirl (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Do you have the option of transferring her to another school in the area where she will be with the correct age group. It seems as this is an age thing due to there being no space in the class most appropriate to her age. If she stays where she is, she'll always be a bit more advanced. If she skips, she'll always be a bit too young. There are also social development issues - always better to be in the correct age group.


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## dereko1969 (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



Smashbox said:


> Where was that?


The references to Holy Communion taking up a lot the day in first class, can't do the multi-quoting, also most gaelscoilleana are multi-denominational i think so preparations for that may not actually be taking place during school hours.


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## samanthajane (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

I have a meeting with the head teachers tomorrow and we're going to have a chat. 

About her being 13 when others are 14/15 i wouldn't mind her being kept in primary school for the extra year and then moving up, i'm open to correction as i did all my education in england but when you hit secondary school you are split into different levels of ability. 

She is just so bored at the moment and her teachers knows that and even said it too me today, but she can only do so much in giving her extra work, she has 30 odd other children some of them are still only 4 going on 5. 

For the communion and having to be 8 i dont think thats true. 

My son was 1 of only two children that were in 2nd class last year. The other girl when she was in 1st class was the only one and she did her communion with the other pupils ( about 6 of them i think ) the school is only a few years old so the older classes would be no where near full. So she was only 7 when she did hers. They said because jack was the only child to do the communion they would leave him till the year after ( this year ) but since we were away for the first 2 terms it's too late for him to do it this year. 

Either way the communions and conformations wont be an issue with me. I'm not religious at all, and i hate what they have become. I dont mean to offend or disrespect anyone with what i'm about to say but it's not about anything but the money. A few years ago a total stranger that lived down the road came knocking on the door to show be how beautiful her daughter looked ( and she did ) and they she held her hand out. I was like what!!!! I dont even know you. Was then told by a cocky 8 year old that i had to give her €20!!! Door was shut pronto! 

I asked my son if he wanted to do his communnion and he replied " only if your going to let people give me money"

So it goes to show he only wants to do it because he thinks he will get money from it. If we were a religious family and went to church every week then yes there would be other reasons as well but were not so i dont see the point in either of them doing it. 

Thedars...it would be perfect to move her back up but it's just not possible the class already has to many pupils as it is. She been away for 2 terms and she's tried to play with her old friends but they dont want to know her anymore. She's not really bothered by that anyway she has made other friends. I picked her up from school today and asked if she had a good day to which i got a sigh and " it was ok i was just bored... i dont need to learn how to write my m's mummy i already know" 

Not sure i would want to move to move her to another school there is only the one irish speaking school in the area, and i'm not sure i would even get a place for her at another school. They had to open a new school as it was because there was about 20 children who couldn't get a place because all the schools in the area were full. This year the irish school as 2 junior infant classes as the demand was so high. The only reason i had no problem with my son getting back in is because they will only except children 1st class and above that already have a good understanding of irish so very few ( 2 i think ) new children started in his class. He's in 3rd class and is taught with other kids that are in 4th and 5th class, they couldn't just have 4 of them in one class so they are all put together.


Just to add on to the communnion issue, the only reason i had my son baptised was because at the time i was told that to get him into any local school he would need a baptisim certificate. Things have changed now, but 9 years ago i was told this by quite a few different people. When i went to see the priest i was totally honest with him about my reasons and he accepted that. ( my mother nearly killed me when i told her what i had said to him ) And i didn't want for him to be christened and my daughter not to be, so thats why she was as well.


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## thedaras (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



samanthajane said:


> > I have a meeting with the head teachers tomorrow and we're going to have a chat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## thedaras (30 Apr 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

opps incorrect info


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## samanthajane (1 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



thedaras said:


> samanthajane said:
> 
> 
> > *Absolutly the right thing to do.I had presumed you had already spoken with them about it.*
> ...


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## Complainer (4 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



samanthajane said:


> I have a meeting with the head teachers tomorrow and we're going to have a chat.


Hope the meeting went well. Can you push him to put you first on the waiting list for 1st class, in case another pupils drops out or moves from the area?



samanthajane said:


> Not sure i would want to move to move her to another school there is only the one irish speaking school in the area


If this issue is having as big an impact as you suggest, I would think you seriously need to consider moving school, even if it means going for an English-speaking school.



samanthajane said:


> Just to add on to the communnion issue, the only reason i had my son baptised was because at the time i was told that to get him into any local school he would need a baptisim certificate. Things have changed now


Not so much. Schools still discriminate based on religion, where demand for places exceeds the number of applicants.


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## cleverclogs7 (4 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

same situation.my daughter should be in 3rd class but had to stay back a yr because she was new in the school and no room.she was bord stiff so i got her the english,maths and irish for 3rd class and i do a little with her every day .shes welll able for 3rd class in september 09 and it wont do any harm if shes a bit more advanced.


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## samanthajane (5 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*



Complainer said:


> Hope the meeting went well. Can you push him to put you first on the waiting list for 1st class, in case another pupils drops out or moves from the area?
> 
> *There are already 4 children ahead of her. But these children just started school a year later ( parents didn't want to go to another school, so they decided to keep them back a year ) where as my daughter has been in school this past year learning. I'm also a bit peeved because when i informed them the children wouldn't be back at the start of the year because we would be in england but there was a chance i would be back, i was told their places would be kept open untill the start of the next year. I'm actually back a term early,  i haven't mentioned this dont really see the point, whats done is done. *
> 
> ...


 
*Good job i did get them christened then. *


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## samanthajane (5 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Also the meeting last friday never actually happened, the teacher was off sick and it was daddy that picked her up from school anyway i got stuck in work. 

When i mentioned about her moving up if anyone did leave i was told there were children ahead of her and it never really dawned on me untill i wrote the last post she should be put ahead of the others and she was in school and at that level now if not a bit ahead of them, where as the other children were kept back a year. I think i will have to bring up that situation with her, cause i dont see how that would be fair. Unless i totally misunderstood what she told me.


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## samanthajane (15 May 2009)

*Re: should i get extra help for my 6 year old?*

Just an update..i finally had the meeting with the head teacher.

The children that are ahead of her are not children that are currently in her junior infants class, they are children waiting to be transfered into the school from other schools. 

Also she said it's not possible for her to be moved up to 2nd class this September because it's not allowed ( in any school ) even if they are able for the work. 

So i have my 6 1/2 if junior infants tracing her m's and f's and then coming home and doing extra work from 1st class books that i got her. Her teacher said to do other things with her like art and crafts and nature ect and to stop doing the 1st class books.

The first thing she did when she got home from school today was go and get her 1st class spellings and maths books and asked what pages she can do!! 

I've never know a child that would prefer to do extra school work than go out and play with her friends or on the trampoline or swings. 

I'll have to get her some paints/crayons and get her to do that instead, cause at the rates she's going she'll have finished all the 1st class books that i got her last week before this school term is even over.


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## slightly (24 Jul 2009)

*Re: Extra help for my 6 yo? Returned from UK should be in SInfants but now in JInfant*

Number one, regarding other children being prioritised ahead of your child for entry to First Class, you should ask for a copy of the school enrolment or admissions policy which should contain the criteria on which new admissions are given preference. This should include new entrants to the school entering Junior Infants and entrants to other classes. You are entitled to see this, as are all other parents so don't accept no for an answer. Read this carefully and see if their policy on paper matches their policy in practice. Should this not include existing students skipping classes bring this to their attention.
In a related matter, while the maximum maximum average as outlined by the Dept. is 30 students per class, while one class had 20 another could possibly have 40, and the average would still be 30. The Dept can force schools to enroll above this where they deem there is *physical space* for additional students. If there is not, then tough luck!
Number Two, should your child continue ahead to Senior Infants, outline your concerns with the class teacher at the start of the year, of course making an appointment to meet her at a mutually convenient time and not ambushing just before school. Outline her ability and her need for more challenging school work. As with students with special educational needs, he/she should differentiate instruction and learning for children with exceptional ability also. Ask for a copy of an I.E.P for your child. (Individual Educational Plan). He/she will probably be surprised at this. 
Regarding spelling and reading, the teachers would probably prefer that you don't just use the next book in the scheme currently in use in the school as this makes things harder for them, instead ask for the names of similar or parallel schemes which would be similar in content and difficulty. Also ask is there a reading scheme in use in the class and what level or standard is being used. Your local library is a great resource for free reading material including audio books etc.

Ask him/her for the titles of suitable software and/or websites which you could use with your child at home. There are some very suitable titles available, including Irish titles which could help your child with regarding to Irish reading and vocab. As this is an English speaking school, Formal Irish reading instruction wil not start until Second Class, informal in First, this would be beneficial and maybe motivational to your child as she will have an extra challenge which other younger students in the class will not have. 

If this does not suffice, you can check out what exactly is expected of children in each class level, for each subject by accessing the Primary School Curriculum, from the NCCA website. 

Also, there are a number of online tools which you can use to access, download or create worksheets, exercises etc for FREE which you can use at home.
You can also download fonts which would allow you to create your own handwriting exercises to print off. If your child is bored with single letter formation, you could print off whole words, or the spellings you are doing with her. 

Personally, I would encourage lots and lots and lots of reading with her as this will help to alleviate her boredom in the long run. Ask the teacher if she was finished her work early, if she could read a book quietly. This would help alleviate her boredom and minimise the risk of disruptive behaviour due to boredom, which the teacher would appreciate.


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## samanthajane (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: Extra help for my 6 yo? Returned from UK should be in SInfants but now in JInfant*



slightly said:


> Number one, regarding other children being prioritised ahead of your child for entry to First Class, you should ask for a copy of the school enrolment or admissions policy which should contain the criteria on which new admissions are given preference. This should include new entrants to the school entering Junior Infants and entrants to other classes. You are entitled to see this, as are all other parents so don't accept no for an answer. Read this carefully and see if their policy on paper matches their policy in practice. Should this not include existing students skipping classes bring this to their attention.
> 
> *Didn't know about that, i will ask when the school term starts again.*
> *When she told me that the 4 others that were ahead of her arn't actually attending the school but awaiting places, it didn't seem right. Especially when i know someone 2 years ago that was refused a place for 1st class because her son had very little irish. That was the schools policy. My son started there in 2nd class but he had come from another irish speaking school. Could of also been that neither parents spoke irish. Speaking from someone that can only just about string a sentance together in irish, it is difficult.*
> ...


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## Liza (29 Jul 2009)

*Re: Extra help for my 6 yo? Returned from UK should be in SInfants but now in JInfant*

It's a tough judgement call and you have to go with your gut feelings. A wishy washy answer, I know, but in my class, I had a little girl who was younger than the others in her class in 5th class and it did her no favours, at all. 

She was always trying to keep up with the others, socially, and it meant she was not being herself, at all. Her mam told me that she still enjoyed playing with her dolls at home but when class mates visited, she simply followed their lead and pretended to be interested in whatever the others were interested in...I felt quite sad for her.

I noticed, in the classroom, also that she was frustrated as she didn't understand lots of what the others found interesting   ie boy/girl... girl/boy.  Believe it or not, it starts in Primary school!! I noticed she was forcing herself to act beyond her years. One year is a lot in the Primary school years. I found she got into trouble, sometimes as she, simply, did not understand what she was saying... using words and terms she didn't even want to.
 SPHE (Sex Ed) is another area to be considered. You can, always, ask for your child to sit in with the class lower for this but I find this can be embarrassing for the child as it puts the spotlight on her at a, potentially, delicate time during class...

That little girl, I referred to, ended up staying an extra year with me, by request of the parents, and we had a great year together. Mum amd Dad agreed it was the year she re-gained her confidence to just be herself. A MUCH happier child (I can't stress that enough!) I still meet her from time to time and still feel it was the right decision for her. 

As I say, it's YOUR gut feeeling that matters.

My brother was the youngest in his class and, thankfully, was a very studious pupil but he had to be to keep up. Even at leaving Cert level, my Mam still claims it was tough on him. I remember the older children in my class found everything less difficult, in general. Even if there are times when she may be bored, this, by far, beats a child with low self-esteem due to struggling with some or all class work, in my opinion.

I wish you the best of luck in your decision and hope it all works out. Good luck 

I suppose it depends on you and your child. Maybe she is a confident and self-aware young lady who is well fit to deal with the level of work and social side of things or maybe she will always find it that bit harder than the older children? 
No one knows their own child like a parent!


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