# Irish Independent website



## Purple (7 Jul 2020)

Has anyone else had issues with the Irish Independent Website?
I subscribed but cannot log on on my work PC (Google Chrome), on the App on my phone or on a Safari browser on my iPhone.
After emailing them and getting no response I am going to cancel my subscription. Has anyone had a problem with that?


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## MrEarl (7 Jul 2020)

Must admit, I'm not a fan of paying them for the service either - their pricing is wrong, and content "mixed", at best.


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## Leo (7 Jul 2020)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> They can just label any popular article as premium,



I reckon that is the strategy, monetise the click-bait.


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## Steven Barrett (7 Jul 2020)

I subscribe to a few newspapers and podcasts. The Irish newspapers are the most expensive and by a long distance, the worst value for money. That's the problem with operating in such a small pond, they don't have the level of resources the likes of the NYT or the Guardian have to carry out proper investigative journalism. 

But even the Indo was a step too far for me. I couldn't bring myself to paying for that tripe.


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## tallpaul (7 Jul 2020)

It was rubbish before and it is still rubbish now!! No way would I pay for it and that is coming from someone who pays for The Irish Times, The Guardian and the New York Times and so is not afraid to pay for news.


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## AndroidMan (7 Jul 2020)

Yes.. The app notifies you with latest news events but you need to subscribe to view them. Whats the point!
And then oddly enough, some of the articles flagged as "premium" are actually not blocked on the app.


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## dereko1969 (7 Jul 2020)

Their IT system is a joke, before the paywall i was registered on the site and I'd say 80% of the time when I logged in I still couldn't access the material, gave up on it.


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## Steven Barrett (8 Jul 2020)

I know it's off topic but it's amazing how long it has taken newspapers to monetize their websites. I have no problem paying for content as long as it is good. They should have done it years ago. The Guardian is an interesting approach by putting out free content and you pay for it if you want (they also annoy you by constantly asking for money). I use that site more than any other news site, so I am quite happy to pay.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jul 2020)

SBarrett said:


> I know it's off topic but it's amazing how long it has taken newspapers to monetize their websites. I have no problem paying for content as long as it is good. They should have done it years ago. The Guardian is an interesting approach by putting out free content and you pay for it if you want (they also annoy you by constantly asking for money). I use that site more than any other news site, so I am quite happy to pay.



Yes but the Guardian has been funded for years by a very lucrative sale of a car website.

In my view only very-high quality content survives in paid-for format, so FT, WSJ, NY Times, etc. I had my doubts about the Irish Times but it seems to be working.

The Indo just doesn't have the content to justify a subscription, and hasn't for years. But I guess they have to try. Ireland is just about big enough to support subscription-only services but far too small to support ones based on web advertising.

They also all have to compete with the best resourced newsroom in the country (RTÉ) putting all content online for free.


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## Purple (8 Jul 2020)

I've a subscription to the NY Times. It was only €1 a month. It's waaaay to the left of the Guardian on social issues. I can't read the Irish Times, it's just too full of itself. I don't read the weekend papers as they are full of opinion pieces; if I want a smartass giving a condecending opinion on the news I'll read Miriam Lord, if I want the opinions and insights of a sanctimonious know-it-all I'll read Fintan O'Toole but if I want proper analysis I'll look elsewhere. 
It is really hard to find good journalism. 
On RTE Tommy Gorman is excellent on Northern Ireland, Mark Little was very good, Philip Boucher Hayes is also very good at giving overviews and explaining issues but generally the rest are not great and more interested in being personalities. The Independent is opinion pieces and bits from other paper, the Irish Times full of people giving opinions rather than reporting on and analysing the news though John Fitzgerald, Stephen Collins and Diarmuid Ferriter  can be a good read.
The (Cork) Irish Examiner is really hard to read and is the Pepsi of Irish Newspapers; you only read it if they don't have the one you want.


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## Early Riser (8 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> I've a subscription to the NY Times. It was only €1 a month. It's waaaay to the left of the Guardian on social issues. I can't read the Irish Times, it's just too full of itself. I don't read the weekend papers as they are full of opinion pieces; if I want a smartass giving a condecending opinion on the news I'll read Miriam Lord, if I want the opinions and insights of a sanctimonious know-it-all I'll read Fintan O'Toole but if I want proper analysis I'll look elsewhere.
> It is really hard to find good journalism.
> On RTE Tommy Gorman is excellent on Northern Ireland, Mark Little was very good, Philip Boucher Hayes is also very good at giving overviews and explaining issues but generally the rest are not great and more interested in being personalities. The Independent is opinion pieces and bits from other paper, the Irish Times full of people giving opinions rather than reporting on and analysing the news though John Fitzgerald, Stephen Collins and Diarmuid Ferriter  can be a good read.
> The (Cork) Irish Examiner is really hard to read and is the Pepsi of Irish Newspapers; you only read it if they don't have the one you want.



Interesting opinion piece. Are you exploring a gap in the market?


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jul 2020)

Anecdotally I think they’ve actually driven traffic to the Irish Times website.

I’ve heard quite a few people say “now that this rubbish is no longer free, why would I pay them €10 a month when I can get the Irish Times for €12 a month?!”


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## johnl68 (8 Jul 2020)

I never use the independent, i find it unbearable. I pay for Irish Times & Guardian. However I do use my library card to access pressreader(Washington Post, LA Times, Telegraph etc. are all available). Also gives acces to rbdigital which has magazines including Economist, Newsweek, Time and many many more!


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## AlbacoreA (9 Jul 2020)

Most of the time when an article is behind a paywall (on certain sites) you can find it on free news sites. Because they didn't write it. 

Also on certain news sites their articles are so bias and deliberately distorted, I wouldn't call it news anymore.


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Jul 2020)

I honestly don't know why people pay for access to news online. A day later it's old news anyway.

I read breakingnews.ie and the rte news online (even though I think the RTE News site is awful).

That gives me more information that I need for the day.


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## johnl68 (9 Jul 2020)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I honestly don't know why people pay for access to news online. A day later it's old news anyway.
> 
> I read breakingnews.ie and the rte news online (even though I think the RTE News site is awful).
> 
> That gives me more information that I need for the day.



That's a fair point. But it's opinion and analysis I pay for, we need to support investigative journalism also. RTEs site is fairly sparse sometimes but I recently found Fergal Bowers to be excellent along with Tommie Gorman(as mentioned above)


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## Cricketer (9 Jul 2020)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I honestly don't know why people pay for access to news online.


Because we need trusted, varied and relatively impartial news sources Paddy. The people working in these organisations need to be paid. Wait a few years till they're gone, then come back and tell us how worthless they were.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Anecdotally I think they’ve actually driven traffic to the Irish Times website.
> 
> I’ve heard quite a few people say “now that this rubbish is no longer free, why would I pay them €10 a month when I can get the Irish Times for €12 a month?!”


Do you really think the Irish Times is better?


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## Steven Barrett (9 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> I've a subscription to the NY Times. It was only €1 a month. It's waaaay to the left of the Guardian on social issues. I can't read the Irish Times, it's just too full of itself. I don't read the weekend papers as they are full of opinion pieces; if I want a smartass giving a condecending opinion on the news I'll read Miriam Lord, if I want the opinions and insights of a sanctimonious know-it-all I'll read Fintan O'Toole but if I want proper analysis I'll look elsewhere.
> It is really hard to find good journalism.
> On RTE Tommy Gorman is excellent on Northern Ireland, Mark Little was very good, Philip Boucher Hayes is also very good at giving overviews and explaining issues but generally the rest are not great and more interested in being personalities. The Independent is opinion pieces and bits from other paper, the Irish Times full of people giving opinions rather than reporting on and analysing the news though John Fitzgerald, Stephen Collins and Diarmuid Ferriter  can be a good read.
> The (Cork) Irish Examiner is really hard to read and is the Pepsi of Irish Newspapers; you only read it if they don't have the one you want.



Opinion pieces is the reason I pay for online newspapers. The NYT doesn't stay at €1 a month for long. Full price is €14 a month. A great feature in that paper is the breakdown of what actually happened when there's a major event. They piece together all the available footage and communications. Irishman Malachy Browne recently won a Pulitzer for the work his did on piecing together details on Russian attacks in Syria. He had previously won an Emmy on work done on detailing the Las Vegas shooting. This is the kind of resources the Irish papers just can't afford to give their journalists.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2020)

SBarrett said:


> Opinion pieces is the reason I pay for online newspapers. The NYT doesn't stay at €1 a month for long. Full price is €14 a month. A great feature in that paper is the breakdown of what actually happened when there's a major event. They piece together all the available footage and communications. Irishman Malachy Browne recently won a Pulitzer for the work his did on piecing together details on Russian attacks in Syria. He had previously won an Emmy on work done on detailing the Las Vegas shooting. This is the kind of resources the Irish papers just can't afford to give their journalists.


I agree that the NYT has excellent investigative journalists. The standard of the writing, as in the quality of the prose, is also excellent. 
Their breaking news and political reporting is very liberal/left though. I base that on the fact that I'm very liberal on social issues and I agree with nearly everything they say. They are like the Irish Times only with quality investigative journalism, good copy editors, a high standard of overall editorial integrity and they don't try to use opinion writers who offer very little insight as a substitute for actually reporting the news behind the news. 
I have a €1 a month subscription for a year.


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## Gordon Gekko (9 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> Do you really think the Irish Times is better?



You’re kidding, right?


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Jul 2020)

Cricketer said:


> Because we need trusted, varied and relatively impartial news sources Paddy.



But how trusted and impartial are they? Just because they charge for content, it doesn't make them any more credible than sources that don't. They tell the same stories I can access for free elsewhere.

I have enough in what I access without paying anymore for it. RTÉ News costs me via the licence. SKY News costs me via monthly subscription.

I gave up buying newspapers long ago. They started to carry less and less content and what they do carry I can get on the headlines of the six o'clock news every evening.


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## Steven Barrett (9 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> I agree that the NYT has excellent investigative journalists. The standard of the writing, as in the quality of the prose, is also excellent.
> Their breaking news and* political reporting is very liberal/left though*. I base that on the fact that I'm very liberal on social issues and I agree with nearly everything they say. They are like the Irish Times only with quality investigative journalism, good copy editors, a high standard of overall editorial integrity and they don't try to use opinion writers who offer very little insight as a substitute for actually reporting the news behind the news.
> I have a €1 a month subscription for a year.



Did you read Tom Cotton's Op Ed? The internet almost melted that the NYT allowed it in their paper!! An editor resigned over it. Goes against allowing people have a different opinion, even if you disagree with it. 

Wapo is on offer too. Some good writing in that. Bought a year's subscription which will get me past the November election and the inauguration. I hope my interest in US politics will wane after that...


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## Purple (9 Jul 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> You’re kidding, right?


No, I find that the IT writes from a very narrow base. It represents the opinion of liberal, urban, wealthy socialists. What could be called the smoked salmon socialists. It derides those who hold opposite views and is smug and self righteous in it's outlook.  
It is like a newspaper version of our President Michael D ("I have lived a life of integrity!") Higgins.


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## Gordon Gekko (9 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> No, I find that the IT writes from a very narrow base. It represents the opinion of liberal, urban, wealthy socialists. What could be called the smoked salmon socialists. It derides those who hold opposite views and is smug and self righteous in it's outlook.
> It is like a newspaper version of our President Michael D ("I have lived a life of integrity!") Higgins.



That’s certainly a point of view.

You mean the people who should be running the country, right?


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## Purple (9 Jul 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> You mean the people who should be running the country, right?


The people who think they should be running the country, if only the electorate was as educated, ethical and intellectually developed as them. The people who never employed a person from a deprived area in their life, are on the right side of a form of economic apartheid and often have very well paid publically funded jobs. Yea, those people.


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## Gordon Gekko (9 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> The people who think they should be running the country, if only the electorate was as educated, ethical and intellectually developed as them. The people who never employed a person from a deprived area in their life, are on the right side of a form of economic apartheid and often have very well paid publically funded jobs. Yea, those people.



Think about how stupid the average person is. Then think about how half the people you see are more stupid than that person. Social media has given a platform and a voice to every eejit in the world. In a properly functioning society, the most moronic viewpoints wouldn’t be shouted the loudest.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Think about how stupid the average person is. Then think about how half the people you see are more stupid than that person. Social media has given a platform and a voice to every eejit in the world. In a properly functioning society, the most moronic viewpoints wouldn’t be shouted the loudest.


And then think about how self serving elites are and how dangerous the tyranny of the virtuous is when their ends justify their means.


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## Early Riser (9 Jul 2020)

Cricketer said:


> Because we need trusted, varied and relatively impartial news sources Paddy. The people working in these organisations need to be paid. Wait a few years till they're gone, then come back and tell us how worthless they were.



Agreed.  An independent press is one of the pillars of democracy. If we want to keep it we will have to pay for it. We may get “free” content from other sources but without any forms of journalistic standards and no filter whatsoever for fake news. It is worrying that so many now seem to take their news from social media of one form or another. We are leaving ourselves wide open for manipulation and coercion.

All newspapers have an opinion. I prefer when they are relatively open about it. Also I have no difficulty with opinion pieces. If nothing else they are a test for one’s own biases. But I prefer a differentiation between opinion and reporting. This is an area where some media fail.

There is plenty of opinion in the Irish Times. Some of it greatly irks me, some of it I nod along with. It would be easier to only read the opinions that comfort me but probably more valuable to read the other ones. And there is a wide diversity. Ciara O’Brien v Una Mullaly for instance. But in general the others offer a wide spectrum of views – I don’t see much groupthink between, say Fintan O’Toole and Mark Paul. Newton Emerson, Cliff Taylor, John Fitzgerald, Chris Johns, Rosita Boland, Stephen Collins, etc, offer a wide range of views. Current affairs, politics and policy is about opinions and values just as much as it about facts, so it is good to get a variety. As long as it relates back to verifiable facts, which much of social media does not.

Quality, independent media will not survive if is not paid for. I subscribe to the IT and to The Times. I like the latter for the Sunday edition in particular. The weekday editions have little specifically about Ireland but it is quite good for world and British news and opinion. On some topics the opinion can be bracingly different from what we get in Ireland, eg, Brexit. Again this is surely good? It is also very good value for €5.

I don’t subscribe to the Guardian as I don’t have time to read any more (or don’t want to give any more time). It is very overt in its biases as is the Mail, in a different way. I check in with The Mail from time to time to stay in touch! I have considered subscribing to the Guardian just as a contribution to its continuing existence (and its investigative pieces can be very good). I have not considered the Mail – shows my biases! But it is good that they are both there with their biased opinions.

Anyway that is my opinion. And it is free ! Anyone who doesn't agree is smug, elitist, leftie, fascist, reactionary ( substitute your own pejoritave).


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