# At what point can a management company change agent?



## AKA (20 Jun 2007)

Hi,

I'm just wondering in other people's housing estates how many management companies are there?  So far our housing estate of 250 units or so has been built by two developers.  There are two phases, and houses have been assigned to two management companies based on the developer.  Phase 1 had one developer - phase 2 - a second additional developer became involved.  Each developer set up a different management company.  The agent acting on behalf of management companies is currently the same.

There will be future phases in the estate.  I'm not sure at the moment if there will be more management companies.  i.e. in phase 3 will we automatically get our developers additional houses added on to our management company.

How do other housing estates work?  Do they have different management companies as phases progress?

We are wondering can one management company decide to change its agent - we have seperate agms etc?  Or do we have to wait until the housing estate is complete?  This could be another 5-10 years and we would like to change agent before then.

Does anyone know of any national bodies that offer information on this subject?


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## CCOVICH (20 Jun 2007)

The NCA have done some work on this recently, but I don't know if they came out with any conclusive answers to your question.

In short, as long as the developer retains control of the development, the agent is more than likely going to be of their choosing.


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## AKA (20 Jun 2007)

Thanks for the reply.  Yes I've had a look at that too.  

Is there any clear way of finding out if the developer retains control of the development?  In our case there are 2 developers who have contracted the work to 2 builders and then there are the two management companies.

I believe both developers have handed over phases one and two to the relevant management companies.  As far as we are aware all common areas are being maintained by the management company agents.  

Phase 3 continues to be refused planning permission - for the past 2 years.   I wonder at what point a new housing estate must be started.  I don't think the county development plans will give us much information on it.   I've heard there could be 4 or 5 phases.  

Not much legistation in this area yet it seems.


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## ClubMan (20 Jun 2007)

I thought that any individual management company could manage its own affairs completely and, as such, change agents whenever they liked within the constraints of any contractual agreement with the current agent?


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## AKA (22 Jun 2007)

Thanks.  We're looking into it.  It's a pity there's not much legislation or governing body for management companies yet.  Hopefully this will change.


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## Bubbly Scot (26 Jun 2007)

AKA said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yes I've had a look at that too.
> 
> I believe both developers have handed over phases one and two to the relevant management companies. As far as we are aware all common areas are being maintained by the management company agents.


 
If the hand over was complete and the developers are no longer listed as directors of the management company then you should be able to switch agency with no problem, subject to honouring any contract with the current one. You can check at the CRO website.



> Not much legistation in this area yet it seems.


 
Not much yet but it's coming.


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## AKA (2 Nov 2007)

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is an update on legislation in this area in the last couple of months?

We may have to change agent as we are paying a lot for very little after we had our first AGM.

For management companies with houses only has any management company (i.e. residents) not used an agent - we could hire a part-time administrator to take in the fees and source public liability insurance. We could source a local gardener to cut the grass for about half the fees we are paying currently.

I know that the Socialist party website that they are making progress in this area in North County Dublin.  Is anyone else working on it?

Thanks.


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2007)

Don't think that there has been any moves on the legislation front:

ConsumerConnect - Property Management

A colleague of mine lived in a small apartment development and the residents managed things on their own without the need for a management agent. The management agent is far from essential if residents are prepared to do whatever work is required themselves. You might still need professional advice on certain aspects (in particular insurance) though.


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## Butter (2 Nov 2007)

I am aware of housing estates who look after their own management company.  This is in estates where there are only houses and no apartments so the management company is only responsible for looking after green areas.  These estates have been handed over to the local authority.  The residents have to elect directors to the management company once the original directors resign (these are usually directors or employees of the original development company).
You need to elect people who will take on the responsibility involved in being a director of a registered company and will register audited accounts.  When the level of fees are decided then someone has to collect them from residents and there can be difficultly in getting everyone to pay up.  Usually though if there is a management company set up by the original developers then owners are legally obliged to pay the required fees.
It certainly seems to work out much cheaper if the residents organise grass cutting and upkeep themselves even if they contract it out to a landscaping company.  The residents also retain a bit much hand-on control as well instead of having to deal with a mangement agent.
In my own estate the original builders are currently paying for the upkeep of the green areas (not all that well though).  We hope that when they hand over the estate that we will elect our own directors to the management company and manage everything ourselves.  I know that the estate next to ours has fees of about €100 a year which covers all the upkeep and maintenance and grass cutting.  Considering that we originally paid €350 then managing it yourselves seems to be the most cost effective route.


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## AKA (2 Nov 2007)

Marg,

When theses housing estates were handed over to the council was the management company dissolved or retained?

In our estate Phase 1 containing only houses has a seperate management company from Phase 2 (houses and 1 block of duplexes)
Phase 1 planning permission did not specify requirement for management company.

We've seen another estate with no management company where a collection for grass cutting is made and people won't pay - they expect the houses that face the green to pay.   Here a residents association does the collection for €100.  There never was a management company here but they still have some issues.    

The residents assoc could take over the reponsibilities of the agent for one management company until the council takes over all but the grass cutting.  For the second management company there could be an issue with the duplex.

However we see issues due to multiple phases with multiple management companies etc.  

Thanks


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## Tara12345 (5 Jun 2008)

Hi

I'm looking for some advice on changing Managing Agents. I live in a complex in Blackrock. I have met with a few people who are dissatisfied with the service we are getting.however,the directors own a number of apartments and as they are getting preferential treatment from the agent, they are not interested in changing. is there anything we can do?
Thanks


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## Jack243 (5 Jun 2008)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]               Hi Tara

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]               Would love to know more...Please PM me with more details...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We are having a similar problem in our development...one woman owns six apartments and runs the show...the agent seems to do as she tells them. is it difficult to kick the directors of en masse?

Jack[/FONT]


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## Bubbly Scot (5 Jun 2008)

Jack243 said:


> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] is it difficult to kick the directors of en masse?[/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jack[/FONT]


 
Difficult? perhaps. You need to get yourself along to the next AGM where at least some of the Directorships should be up for a vote, it depends on what's in your mems and arts. Might be worth getting a copy of that and checking it out. Check too what vote each property gets, usually it's one vote per unit.

An agent WILL take the majority of instructions from the Directors as they are effectively the reps of the owners. A good agent however will encourage you to form a residents committee/association so that your voices are heard.

You need to get all the information you can and then use it to your advantage. Remember, you are paying your agent and they are there to do a job for you. Call them....often!

(Management Agent)


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