# Tax accountant costs for small business.



## fatboyPee (24 Aug 2007)

Hi,

Just a quick question if you would be so kind, my wife is setting up a ltd company with another person and is worried about the tax. Does the accountant they need to employ have to be chartered? How much does it cost for end of year accounts on average ? (The business will only generate around 20,000 a year).

Many Thanks

FBP.


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## Graham_07 (24 Aug 2007)

If the company is audit exempt ( see www.cro.ie for information on this ) 
then you do not have to have an accountant, however I would not recommend anyone to attempt to deal with Revenue and CRO without the benefit of professional advice, especially in the early stages of the business. 

There are a number of professional accountancy bodies in Ireland, and any of their members would be well capable of handling this business. You can get a list here. http://www.accountingnet.ie/resources/links/accountancy.php

Regards, fees, turnover would not be the main determining factor in fees, unfortunately any company, no matter how small demands a lot of work and fees depends on how much work the accountant has to do. You'd need to see some accountants and get quotes. You say generate 20K, is this turnover or net profit, how many transactions, how much of the work would the owners be doing on the books etc. all have a bearing on fees.


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## command (24 Aug 2007)

They do not have to be chartered. Accounts in public practice in Ireland belong ot a few different bodies. ACA is chartered, ACCA is certified and CPA is certified public. All are qualified to audit accounts etc. 

If you are worried about the ability of the accountant you pick, particularly in dealing with the revenue make sure for a start that they have a TAIN number. This is a tax advisor information number. An accountant will register with Revenue and be given this number. 

An accountant is not obliged to get one but most have them. If they don't have one then you need ot be a bit worried and I would advise caution in dealing with them. 

As for cost it will depend on how much work they expect the accountant to do. If the turnover is going to be low then vat registration may not be necessary which will mean one less tax for them to worry about. 

Their best bet is probably to pay an accountant for a consultation and get an opinion and some advise on how best to operate the business form a record keeping and tax compliance point of view.


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## capall (24 Aug 2007)

Why would a Ltd company be necessary for a business with a turnover of just 20k or even a profit of 20k ?
Would a partnership or sole trader option not suffice ?


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## fatboyPee (24 Aug 2007)

Thanks very much for all replies. Really appreciate the advice and comments.

The business is a playschool and will be run by the two partners. They were advised, where childcare is involved to be as formal as possible (liabilities etc?) to protect themselves? 20k is turnover but there is very little by way of overheads (rent, insurances and staffing costs mainly).

This has a bearing on  the accounts then as they will be doing what few transactions there are (x kids in the school payment weekly)....

Thanks

FBP


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## Guest112 (24 Aug 2007)

FBP

You may not be aware that there is a special tax relief for persons who mind children in their own home up to (if I recall correctly) 10,000

This may or may not fit in with the business plans of your wife


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## Graham_07 (24 Aug 2007)

APHRODITE said:


> FBP
> 
> You may not be aware that there is a special tax relief for persons who mind children in their own home up to (if I recall correctly) 10,000
> 
> This may or may not fit in with the business plans of your wife


 
NOt from Revenue but gives the basics of this relief :-

[broken link removed]


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## ubiquitous (24 Aug 2007)

fatboyPee said:


> They were advised, where childcare is involved to be as formal as possible (liabilities etc?) to protect themselves? 20k is turnover but there is very little by way of overheads (rent, insurances and staffing costs mainly).



Operating though a limited liability company will NOT in itself protect you against a significant claim if one arises in the course of your business. You should seek proper professional advice on this, and all compliance issues, before setting up a limited company. If your objective is to minimise professional fees, you will certainly not achieve this in the long run by operating a limited company.


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## fatboyPee (24 Aug 2007)

Thanks again guys....

the business is existing and running out of a premises so unfortunately it may not apply but the numbers when stacked up would mean that tax-wise she would be liable for very little  as the business playschool only runs half-days and 4 days a week....

FBP.


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## xxx (27 Aug 2007)

If you were to keep proper records - bank statements, cheques books and cash books written up showing all incoming cash and liabilities then annual fee should not be to high say approx €500 plus vat.
It is a good idea to have a ltd co because they are more formal than partnerships. Sometimes the best of friends go into partnership and fall out. As ltd co would be intitled to audit exemption it would be just as cheap to prepare ltd co accounts as partnership accounts.


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## ubiquitous (27 Aug 2007)

xxx said:


> If you were to keep proper records - bank statements, cheques books and cash books written up showing all incoming cash and liabilities then annual fee should not be to high say approx €500 plus vat.
> It is a good idea to have a ltd co because they are more formal than partnerships. Sometimes the best of friends go into partnership and fall out. As ltd co would be intitled to audit exemption it would be just as cheap to prepare ltd co accounts as partnership accounts.


You most certainly will not get annual limited company (or partnership) accounts, tax computations and returns prepared for €500 or anything near it. This might have been possible in certain circumstances maybe 10-15 years ago, but certainly not now, given the increased regulation and overhead costs in the meantime.


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## xxx (27 Aug 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> You most certainly will not get annual limited company (or partnership) accounts, tax computations and returns prepared for €500 or anything near it. This might have been possible in certain circumstances maybe 10-15 years ago, but certainly not now, given the increased regulation and overhead costs in the meantime.


 
Well thats all i would be charging personally (but as i said it would depend on the quality of the records)


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## ubiquitous (27 Aug 2007)

Is your work insured and are you regulated by a professional body? If so, you are providing a remarkably inexpensive service. Best of luck with it.


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## xxx (27 Aug 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Is your work insured and are you regulated by a professional body? If so, you are providing a remarkably inexpensive service. Best of luck with it.


 
Both of the above, thanks.


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## Joe1234 (27 Aug 2007)

xxx said:


> As ltd co would be intitled to audit exemption it would be just as cheap to prepare ltd co accounts as partnership accounts.



Limited companies are only entitled to the audit exemption if they do not get behind with their filing.


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## the mai rose (4 Sep 2007)

xxx

could you give me any idea how much i would be charged by an accountant i am a sole trader, first year just completed, earned approx 15,000. im concerned about the amount my tax bill would be and fees on top of that


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## Graham_07 (5 Sep 2007)

the mai rose said:


> xxx
> 
> could you give me any idea how much i would be charged by an accountant i am a sole trader, first year just completed, earned approx 15,000. im concerned about the amount my tax bill would be and fees on top of that


 
You need to give more information than this for anyone to give a meaningful estimate as most accountancy fees are time related. The fees will be linked to how much or how little time is spent not on the amount you made. Many people think their records are impeccable and that the accountant has very little to do but put them together, the reality is often very different and even a small case can, if records are not appropriately constructed in the first place, take quite some time , and threfore cost. Did you not check out accountancy and tax at the start of your year so as to get some advance idea ?


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## xxx (5 Sep 2007)

Whats your line of business?


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