# Right to view a will



## STEINER

If I make a will, I take it that I control who sees it while I am alive, ie its not on public record or anything?


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## ClubMan

As far as I know a will only becomes a public document after probate and in the meantime it's private to the extent that you want it to be.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/before_a_death/making_a_will.html



> *Status of wills as public documents*
> 
> After probate has been taken out on a person's will, that will then becomes a public document and a copy can be obtained by anyone from the Probate Office or relevant District Probate Registry. The Probate Office also sends copies of the will, the Grant of Representation and the Inland Revenue Affidavit to the Revenue Commissioners.


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## pilotpilate

If a will is made & the person dies does the will have to be read & sent for probate . And what is the time limit to it been published or sent to Probate


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## mf1

Whole series of questions arise. 

Is there a will? 
Where is it?
Who is the  executor?
Who are the beneficiaries?

That whole thing about a will being "read" is essentially a "movie" fantasy. It does not happen in the real world. 

After that, it is a matter of fact in each case. 

You can check out Citizens Information website for more pointers.

mf


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## Padraigb

The executor should be made aware that there is a will, that he or she is nominated as executor, and be told where the will is to be found. Not even the executor need be privy to the contents of the will before death.


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## Gulliver

mf1 said:


> That whole thing about a will being "read" is essentially a "movie" fantasy. It does not happen in the real world.


 
It's not a fantasy!  I have been present at more than one of these - and I was never in a movie...


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## mf1

Gulliver said:


> It's not a fantasy!  I have been present at more than one of these - and I was never in a movie...



OK - I take that back. Replace with " there is no legal requirement for that to occur!" 

The fact that I regard it as pure drama is a separate issue!

mf


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## Padraigb

And we don't know whether Gulliver inhabits the real world or not. His choice of username suggests that he may have travelled to strange places.


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## pilotpilate

Their is a will.With the Executor.One of the deceased's daughters who is also the main beneficiary as told by her. according to the solicitor who made the will with the mother none of the rest of the family were mentioned in the will. The family home is involved . Does Probate have to taken out seen as their is property involved. Also out of the blue all of the sisters & brothers were given €1000 but no explanation given. If not mentioned in will how could this happen


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## pilotpilate

But after death does the will have to be read. Does probate legally have to be taken out. If i make a will & pay good money to do so i would expect that my wishes are respected . Does it not have to available to all the family


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## mercman

A will acts as the last wishes of a deceased person. The purpose of placing an executor is to ensure that the wishes are executed according to the will. Any deviation from the will has to be classed as suspect.


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## huskerdu

An executor does not have to show the will to anyone who is not mentioned. 
if you are mentioned in a will, you are entitled to see that part of the will, but not the complete document. 

When probate is completed, the will is then a publicly available document in the Probate office. It can takes months or more for this to happen. 

If you received a bequest of  €1000, you would be within your rights to ask to see the part of the will that states that. 

I know this sounds obvious, but have you asked to see a copy of the will ?


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## Odea

In my case the executor knows the contents of my fathers will and so does his wife (my sister) but the rest of us aren't allowed to know the contents.  Thanks Dad!


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## huskerdu

Odea said:


> In my case the executor knows the contents of my fathers will and so does his wife (my sister) but the rest of us aren't allowed to know the contents.  Thanks Dad!



I appreciate that you are under stress and in a difficult situation, but the law says that the executor has no legal obligation to show the entire will to others until probvate is completed. 

It is not fair to blame your father for this.


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## Mr. C.J.H.

Gulliver said:


> It's not a fantasy!  I have been present at more than one of these - and I was never in a movie...



Where? Did this happen in Ireland? This does not happen as a matter of practice.


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## Gulliver

Mr. C.J.H. said:


> Where? Did this happen in Ireland? This does not happen as a matter of practice.


 
When I said I was present at more than one of these, I meant I was present at precisely two. Where - the midlands.

It has been the normal practice in our family - there is no drama. It is the practice in the family that the executor should fully inform all members of the family of the contents by reading it with all present and should continually inform them of how he/she proposes to conduct that role. There has never been any dispute in the family during such process or afterwards.

I am at the moment personally acting as executor for my recently deceased brother.


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## sam h

Gulliver,

I think they were refering to the solicitor calling all the members of the family & the benificiaries into the (mahonahy clad walled) office for an "official" reading of the will and the gasps by all as everything is left to some distant relative. 

I was amazed when I called the solicitor after my father passed away & he came onto the phone to quickly announce - "you & X are the executors and all is splilt equally between the siblings".  No need to go into the office at all, other than to collect a copy of the will.

Obviously, I (as executor) called everyone else togeather to notify them of what was involved in the will, but there was no obligation on me to do so.

Sam


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## csirl

To be honest, if the contents of Wills were publically 'read' in advance of probate then it would eliminate a lot of bad feeling, confusion and possibly even underhand behaviour in a lot of cases. In this day and age, they all should be scanned and posted on a probate office website.

Probated Wills are public records accessable to all, so dont see the reason why they need to be kept secret at any stage of the process.


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## mf1

"In this day and age, they all should be scanned and posted on a probate office website."

No. 

Until the Will goes through Probate there are a lot of reasons why it may never get that far! 

Will is improperly executed. Will was made under duress. Testator did not have capacity.   

Which is why you are correct when you say: "Probated Wills are public records accessable to all"

"To be honest, if the contents of Wills were publically 'read' in advance of probate then it would eliminate a lot of bad feeling, confusion and possibly even underhand behaviour in a lot of cases. "

As it happens, I agree. But, in my  experience, there is nothing like the sniff of money to turn people into nasty, grubby, underhand etc.,etc. In most situations, there will be harmony and agreement about what should and will happen. In the cases I've seen, where there is disharmony, you can trace it back to the dynamics of family living and the desire of (e.g.) the Testator to cause as much grief in death as he did in life!

mf


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## Padraigb

Gulliver said:


> When I said I was present at more than one of these, I meant I was present at precisely two. Where - the midlands.
> 
> It has been the normal practice in our family - there is no drama. It is the practice in the family that the executor should fully inform all members of the family of the contents by reading it with all present and should continually inform them of how he/she proposes to conduct that role. There has never been any dispute in the family during such process or afterwards.
> 
> I am at the moment personally acting as executor for my recently deceased brother.


As a matter of dealing openly and honestly with people, I think there is nothing wrong with doing that.

But I would guess (and hope) that you don't do the Hollywood thing of inviting family members who are not beneficiaries so that they can suffer a somewhat public disappointment.


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## sam h

mf1 said:


> Until the Will goes through Probate there are a lot of reasons why it may never get that far!
> 
> Will is improperly executed. Will was made under duress. Testator did not have capacity.
> 
> Which is why you are correct when you say: "Probated Wills are public records accessable to all"
> 
> "To be honest, if the contents of Wills were publically 'read' in advance of probate then it would eliminate a lot of bad feeling, confusion and possibly even underhand behaviour in a lot of cases. "
> 
> As it happens, I agree. But, in my experience, there is nothing like the sniff of money to turn people into nasty, grubby, underhand etc.,etc. In most situations, there will be harmony and agreement about what should and will happen. In the cases I've seen, where there is disharmony, you can trace it back to the dynamics of family living and the desire of (e.g.) the Testator to cause as much grief in death as he did in life!
> 
> mf


 
Would it not eliminate some of the mystery if the will was posted (subject to the will being verified & full probate).

If people are excluded from seeing the will in full, they may not be aware that the will was / wasn't ligit.  

I have seen some nightmare stories posted here where beneficiaries get no feedback from the exectutor.

TBH, it wasn't an issue in our case as we made sure everything was as transparent & democratic as possible (maybe too much so in hindsight).

But some family dymanics mean that the executor may take steps that are beynd their limitations and by the time the will is made public, it maybe too late to rectify (and too painful to challenge)


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## mf1

"If people are excluded from seeing the will in full, they may not be aware that the will was / wasn't ligit."

You can turn that on its head as well - if they don't get the opportunity to cause trouble, they can't!

"But some family dymanics mean that the executor may take steps that are beynd their limitations and by the time the will is made public, it maybe too late to rectify (and too painful to challenge) "

I agree - but then you have to ask why the Testator ever appointed them? And if it was under duress or undue influence? And whether it is ever worthwhile challenging people who are capable of being underhand and devious to benefit themselves over others? 

Big issues. 

mf


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## csirl

mf1 said:


> I agree - but then you have to ask why the Testator ever appointed them? And if it was under duress or undue influence? And whether it is ever worthwhile challenging people who are capable of being underhand and devious to benefit themselves over others?
> 
> Big issues.
> 
> mf


 
People who are being underhand and devious to benefit themselves over others should always be challenged. There is a huge public interest in ensuring that wills are executed correctly. This should take precedence.


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## mf1

Who is going to challenge them? And who is going to pay the costs? And whose view of who is being underhand/devious will be accepted by a Court? It is not always as clearcut as some posters/clients would have anyone believe. 

Coming back to an earlier point - wills should be made public before Probate..........

Very often, a query raised is from a disappointed person who believes they should have 
been a beneficiary and tries to suggest that there is /was something underhand when, in reality, they were excluded for good reason. 

Over age children have no automatic entitlement to any share of their parents' assets. And nor do they have any entitlement to see a parent's will before it is Probated.  

mf


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## Padraigb

csirl said:


> People who are being underhand and devious to benefit themselves over others should always be challenged. There is a huge public interest in ensuring that wills are executed correctly. This should take precedence.


I tend to agree. I think it a deficiency that The Succession Act does not require an executor to make some form of report on the discharge of his or her obligations. A sensible executor should draw up such an account and give it to the key beneficiaries (by limiting to "key beneficiaries" I mean that is should be okay not to report to people who received small or token legacies).


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