# ATM fraud - didn't get money back



## geoffdowling (30 Aug 2007)

folks, i need help. I had an account with permanent tsb,put my SSIA savings into this account to do up house, only intended writing cheques from the acc. i withdrew a sum of money once for an emergency in may,low and behold a cheque bounces in june and i find out my account has been cleared out, nearly 2 grand stolen. I was waiting 10 weeks for tsb to investigate and refund me...........they have just informed me i am not getting a penny, they said my card wasnt skimmed and somebody must have got my pin and card !! That is impossible as card was locked in my safe. what do i do now ?? cant believe i have been treated like this.

TSB are a disgrace,they have left me high and dry, newly married, young family and new mortgage, i am the victim of a crime and they made me feel like i was the criminal.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

Complain to them in writing and if you exhaust their complaints process without satisfaction then consider making a complaint to the [broken link removed]. It will take time but could be worth it.


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## themetunegal (30 Aug 2007)

Hello geoffdowling,

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. 

Can the TSB not provide you with details of when / where / how the money was withdrawn. You indicate that you had €2k stolen from the account - this would either mean someone entering a bank branch to withdraw in full or a series of ATM withdrawls. The locations / times etc of these transactions may be able to shed some further light.

Hope you manage to get it sorted out.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

You could also try reporting it to the _Gardaí _if you have not already done so but I'm not sure what they might do...


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## pc7 (30 Aug 2007)

keep at the bank, arrange to meet the manager, if you have other accounts/mortgages say you will leave the bank over their treatment of you.  fight for it, if you make enough fuss hopefully they might refund you.


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## efm (30 Aug 2007)

Take a look at this thread that details the procedure for reporting ATM skimming with BoI.  The procedures should be broadly similar.  The important thing is to report it to the Gardai so that TSB have to take it seriously.  However, before you report it get a copy of your statement and look at the transactions and identify the ones you didn't make.


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## geoffdowling (30 Aug 2007)

Thanks folks,
just to clarify on above, it was a serious of ATM withdrawals from various machines across city, i have examined all these from transaction rept and i obviously reported to gardai when i discovered the theft in july. The gardai didnt help me really, said they checked CCTV but couldnt make out faces !! ( how poor is that ) , the guard dealing with it ended the conversation by saying " dont let them away with it, those who shout loudest get heard " ( what the bloody hell use is that !! ) I am fuming to be fair.
I have wrote to bank etc and awaiting response, but to be honest after my meeting with the manager yesterday, he basically told me to go away as we wont get our money back.

Its an absolute outrage, myself and my wife had a sum of money to invest/save after a property sale and were going to put it into TSB but i wouldnt pee on them now if they were on fire. 
Talk about customer service! id advise any and everybody to pass this story onto whoever you know so as to stay away from this bank,if the same thing happened to you, you could lose your life savings through no fault of your own.......Permanent TSB are a disgrace


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## DrMoriarty (30 Aug 2007)

It sounds like there's little to be gained by dealing face-to-face with them, and if you lose your temper and/or get abusive with anyone you'll undermine your own position completely. Step back, take a deep breath, and follow ClubMan's advice above:





ClubMan said:


> Complain to them in writing and if you exhaust their complaints process without satisfaction then consider making a complaint to the [broken link removed].


Include all the relevant info, impress upon them that you do not wish to deal with that manager again, require that they acknowledge and address your formal complaint within the statutory time limit and indicate that, depending on their response, you will be lodging a complaint with the ombudsman and thereafter referring the matter to your legal advisors, if need be.

Shout loud, but shout calmly.


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## geoffdowling (30 Aug 2007)

Thanks Doc.......ill follow the advice to the letter but i am not very hopeful. Let you know how i got on.

GD


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## DrMoriarty (30 Aug 2007)

geoffdowling said:


> they said my card wasnt skimmed and somebody must have got my pin and card !! That is impossible as card was locked in my safe.


These positions can't both be right; go back to the _Gardaí _and, if at all possible, get a statement from them confirming the existence of CCTV footage of these withdrawals being made at times/locations X, Y, Z. Whether or not the individuals' faces can be identified may be of secondary importance.


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## Mr Magoo (30 Aug 2007)

geoffdowling said:


> they said my card wasnt skimmed and somebody must have got my pin and card !!



How do they know it wasn't skimmed?? A skimmed card is the only explaination if your card was locked away.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

geoffdowling said:


> Thanks Doc.......ill follow the advice to the letter but i am not very hopeful. Let you know how i got on.
> 
> GD


If it gets that far then the _FSO _seem to be very scrupulous and determined in dealing with consumer complaints where necessary. It may take time as I said but if needs must...


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## Bronte (31 Aug 2007)

Is there anybody in your house who may have had access to the safe who also knows the pin number (or do you keep the pin number with it) .  That's where I'd start.


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## geoffdowling (31 Aug 2007)

Re Bronte, only myself and my wife, so unless we are stealing from each other then no !


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## ClubMan (31 Aug 2007)

Is it a _Chip & PIN _card? With these the banks are pushing much more liability onto the cardholder in a lot of cases. See www.chipandspin.co.uk for example.


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## Bronte (31 Aug 2007)

Were you and your wife out of the country when any of these withdrawals took place - might help prove that it couldn't have been with your card


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## walsh101 (31 Aug 2007)

Same thing happened to my hubbie awhile ago, although not as money involved but he made to bank list the times and places where the money was withdrawn and was able to prove that he wasn't there, so get hold of anything that proves your whereabouts at the given times, i.e jobsheets, docs appointment, even receipts from shops or supermarkets have the time and date on them (although I know that not everyone keeps receipts).
If you have no luck then tell them you are willing to sit outside their branch ( even if your not) with a placard, nobody likes bad publicity !!!!!!


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## Lauren (31 Aug 2007)

I'd be onto Newstalk or another radio station. Brenda Power (her show starts at 9am) would be interested in this one.....She and others in Newstalk seem to be able to make things happen for consumers! You have nothing to loose. Don't give up Geoff! Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Fluffy2006 (31 Aug 2007)

Hi
I don't think this will be of much help at all _but _my husbands card was also skimmed (laser/atm) and roughly E1500 taken out. When he reported it, he was told that it had been taken in a series of E10 purchases and E90 cashbacks over a four days (Friday to Monday) and all from the same shop. 
He was told that he'd be refunded as it was a case of fraud - the onus was on the shop to check the card etc but that if it had been used in an ATM it would have meant they would have got his PIN and thereby putting the onus on him to keep it secret. This is my reasoning for thinking the Chip and Pin cards are a terrible idea. 
Also, even though PTSB admitted he was right etc, he was waiting over a year to get the money refunded! Terrible service, we are looking about to move our bank also.


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## ClubMan (31 Aug 2007)

To the original poster - have you followed my advice of making a formal complaint to the bank and, if necessary, taking it to the _FSO_?


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## geoffdowling (31 Aug 2007)

I dont think bank suspect me or my wife ( well i hope not ) they are saying somebody had access to our card and our pin ! No chance


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## geoffdowling (31 Aug 2007)

Hi clubman
Yes i have wrote to bank and am awaiting reply,from there i will be contacting the regulator and ombudsman.


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