# Fair deal scheme - mother's house has had an offer from potential purchaser.



## psawyer76 (29 Jul 2020)

Hi all,
I’d appreciate some advice if you can. 

My mum has been in a nursing home for 5 years and is paying the fees from the nursing home loan using her house .She has a small amount of savings under the 36k threshold and so 80% of her pension is going towards her fees.  Her house is empty and is starting to fall into disrepair. The family are looking after it as best we can but none of us live locally or are able to put much money into it. It wouldn't be worth a huge amount of money. 

Someone has approached us about possibly buying the house. Let's just say hypothetically that happened, would I be right in saying that if we do that, her income is reassessed and that this would be a foolish thing to do?
Thanks for any help or advice.


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## Thirsty (29 Jul 2020)

If you sell, then yes, the proceeds will be included in the means assessment; whereas from the Fair Deal loan scheme you have now reached the max that can be deducted if the house is sold after her death (current rate 3 years @ 7.5% per year).  

If you don't want to sell, would you consider renting it?  You could include an agreement that the property will be maintained (grass/hedges etc.,).


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## psawyer76 (29 Jul 2020)

Thanks for that. We could consider renting but would  that  income need to be assessed too?


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## AlbacoreA (30 Jul 2020)

Yes they will take 80% of rental income. 

IMO, there just no point in selling it, or renting it, if you are in the fair deal scheme. 

Well not unless you just want rid of it, because its worth nothing and too much hassle.


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## Saavy99 (30 Jul 2020)

psawyer76 said:


> Her house is empty and is starting to fall into disrepair. The family are looking after it as best we can but none of us live locally or are able to put much money into it. It wouldn't be worth a huge amount of money.
> 
> Someone has approached us about possibly buying the house.



In the current environment SELL.
Consider yourself lucky someone has approached you with view to purchasing.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (30 Jul 2020)

AlbacoreA said:


> IMO, there just no point in selling it, or renting it, if you are in the fair deal scheme




Well there is a point in letting it if it maintains the value by preventing it from falling into disrepair.


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## elacsaplau (30 Jul 2020)

Isn't this an example of the lack of joined-up thinking of the Irish state?

We have a housing crisis yet the policy here is to effectively incentivise people to leave houses empty rather than have these houses used sensibly?


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## demoivre (30 Jul 2020)

Saavy99 said:


> In the current environment SELL.
> Consider yourself lucky someone has approached you with view to purchasing.



Only take this advice OP if you want 7.5% of the net proceeds, per annum, to be used to fund your mother's nursing home fees.


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## Saavy99 (30 Jul 2020)

The house has been left vacant for 5 years, probably already has maintenance issues and will likely become derelict as the more years pass by.


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## psawyer76 (30 Jul 2020)

Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, it’s crazy that a house has to lie empty for an undefined amount of time. I spoke to a helpful lady in hse and she said selling wouldn’t be the best option. Lots to think about.


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## AlbacoreA (6 Aug 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Well there is a point in letting it if it maintains the value by preventing it from falling into disrepair.



It would be cheaper to just to maintain it.  Renting causes more wear and tear that then has to paid for with 20% of the income. 
That's assuming no issues. 

I've looked after a few empty houses, and they didn't suddenly start falling apart because no one was in it.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Aug 2020)

@AlbacoreA 



psawyer76 said:


> Her house is empty and is starting to fall into disrepair. The family are looking after it as best we can but none of us live locally or are able to put much money into it.



The OP claims that it is falling into disrepair so I am advising on that basis.


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## Saavy99 (6 Aug 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> @AlbacoreA
> 
> 
> 
> The OP claims that it is falling into disrepair so I am advising on that basis.



Plus the chances of getting a half decent price will further diminish as the economy slides into recession.


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## twofor1 (6 Aug 2020)

We recently sold a house belonging to a deceased relative who was a long term nursing home resident under Fair Deal. In this case it cost €4k annually to keep the house maintained and empty, had the house been sold before death, the amount assessed on the house sale proceeds would have been over €40k annually.

Even for a house that was not worth much initially and is now falling into disrepair, it is hard to see it making financial sense to sell while in a nursing home under Fair Deal. But like everything else, crunch the numbers.

On the thousands of empty houses, belonging to Fair Deal nursing home residents, There was talk of incentives to make some of these homes available, that was 2 years ago, heard nothing since.

https://www.independent.ie/business...xqfnO2c6Cf5QOULy8XEWCSPBQCdzKh2RoCRgUQAvD_BwE


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## AlbacoreA (6 Aug 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> @AlbacoreA
> 
> 
> he OP claims that it is falling into disrepair so I am advising on that basis.



Sorry missed that.


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## Ryan (8 Sep 2020)

Is there any financial advantage to renting a persons home who has moved to residential care?


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## twofor1 (8 Sep 2020)

Has the owner moved to residential care under Fair Deal  ?

If so, in our experience we did not consider it worth renting the house.

Net rent will be considered income and like other income will be assessed at 80%.

What if you are unlucky and get tenents who don't pay the rent that you are being assessed on.

An income tax return would have to be made on the rental income.

Even if appointing a letting agent, being a landlord has many other headaches.

A further complication can be getting tenants out when the owner dies and the house has to be sold. If the Nursing Home loan was availed of, it is interest free if repaid within a year of death, if not, revenue’s interest rate of around 8% applies from date of death.

Seems like a lot of pain for little gain. That's why there are so many vacant Fair Deal houses.

I am aware of some who have let a trusted family member live in the house rent free as a caretaker, on condition they pay gas, electric, alarm monitoring etc and cut the grass / hedges, at least that way the house was being maintained and not costing much.


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## gianni (9 Sep 2020)

Ryan said:


> Is there any financial advantage to renting a persons home who has moved to residential care?



If the tenant was impeccable and there were no wear & tear issues, it would provide a very small return.


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## Ryan (9 Sep 2020)

Yes she has been approved but is still in hospital until a bed is available in there. She has an income lower than the state contributory pension having spent many years abroad which we think changes the picture a little.


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