# Kids starting job... living at home ... how much "rent" should they pay?



## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

Happy New Year to everybody!

2 of my kids will be finishing college this year and will be starting work. 

Following work placement, Child #1 has already been offered a job with a US multi-national company and will be starting in September. His starting salary is just over €71K.
Child #2 is in the medical field and has done placements during her course. Last summer (2021) one of the hospitals she worked in took her on for the summer, with full pay. She's hoping that she might get a permanent job in the same hospital when she finishes.  She'll be expecting a salary of around €35K.

It's been a financial struggle for my wife and I to get them this far - see this thread - but it has been wort it. 

As they'll be earning, they'll need to contribute towards the costs.  However, I'm not sure how much we should be asking for.  Is it fair to ask child #2 to be paying the same as child #1 considering the difference in salary?   I know if they were renting a place of their own, the salary difference wouldn't come into it. If they are going to live at home for a while, we'd like them to contribute towards their "keep" as well as save towards getting a place of their own. I'm wondering how much other parents are getting from their kids who are in full time employment?


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Jan 2022)

Happy New Year.

Firstly, it’s great that they’re both doing well.

There’ll be different opinions on this. My own is that they should definitely pay something, and that the higher earner should pay more.

Then there’s the question of how much and also what you do with the cash. Their ‘take homes’ will be €48,000 a year and €29,000 a year according to the Deloitte tax calculator. To put it in context, that’s basically €4,000 a month of disposable income for your son. Very few people would have that after their other commitments are taken care of.

As an aside, you should advise your son to start funding his pension to the max, i.e. 15% of €71,000 per year (I’m assuming he’s not Van Wilder). The impact of starting so young should be huge. It sounds like your daughter is joining the public sector, so she should familiarise herself with that system.

Personally, I would ask him for €1,000 a month and her for €500 a month. But I’d actually set the money aside as their own (without their knowledge) and then give it back to then when they’re buying a property. I would actively encourage them to start saving for deposits as well. There would be no tax issues; just document it in simple terms on a one pager, i.e. that it’s their money.

Living at home for €1,000 a month and sticking a net circa €500 into his pension, he should still be able to save €1,000 a month pretty easily.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (2 Jan 2022)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Personally, I would ask him for €1,000 a month


At €1,000 a month he could rent a room anywhere he likes and not have to live with his parents!

@Ger1966 There's an amount here where you and your son can do right by each other in all respects but that amount is well below €1,000 a month.


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## jim (2 Jan 2022)

I would ask higher earner to pay a bit more because ultinately you parents have helped them get this far. Yes, if renting off their own ba then salary would be irrelevant but in this situation i think its a relevant factor but not overly so.

1k pm for me is too much to ask.

I would ask for a % of each of their disposabke income. Say 15%. So on 4k disposable thats 600pm.

I would hope though that they see the help that you, as parents, have given them and rather than you asking they will volunteer a fair monthly contribution. Maybe ask them what they think would be fair and go from there.

I wouldnt hold the money to give back to them to help with buying. No way Jose. Id use their contribution to pay expenses and to enjoy as part of you and your spouses disposable income.


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## Thirsty (2 Jan 2022)

Does the salary for offspring #1 include shift allowances/bonuses?   If he is working shift hours, then a car will be essential.  So that's an additional living cost.

Encourage him to max out any benefits such as APSS and / or Pension if available. Few of us in our early 20s thought pensions were important.

I don't think I'd want to pay 1k a month & continue to live at home!  

I didn't look for money from working offspring myself, but I think I'd start the conversation with them first and then perhaps a % approach would work well.


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Jan 2022)

But the €1,000 isn’t just rent; what about food, utilities, etc?


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## MrEarl (2 Jan 2022)

Hello,

I agree with Gordon - albeit, I think I'd be asking for 35% of net take home pay from each child,  rather than getting into specific numbers that may need to be renegotiated in a year's time etc. Once it's set at 35%, it's easy to recalculate, there's a level of fairness, and there's no re-negotiation

If the children remain with you long term,  you might consider giving them some of the money back, to help them with a deposit for a home, in years to come - but that's solely your choice, and remember, if you do it for one, you'll have to do it for both children.

Getting both to start making personal pension contributions, once they are hitting the higher tax bracket, makes a lot of sense.

While not trying to "frog march" them out the front door, they do ultimately need to move out, and become self sufficient,  so don't worry about charging them something similar to an arms length rent, or mortgage repayment.


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## Cervelo (2 Jan 2022)

I think it depends on what you mean by "living at home, if their expecting to treat the home like an all inclusive hotel and still have everything done for them like cooking, cleaning and washing then somewhere in and around 20% of their net take home 
If they are looking after themselves and pulling their weight around the house and buying and cooking their own food I think somewhere around 10% of net pay would suffice in my humble opinion
While I do like Gordon's idea of squirreling away some of the rent to give back at a later date it might cause a small problem if one child is given more than the other or you feel under pressure to give the second child the same amount as the first child


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Jan 2022)

For what it’s worth, my parents didn’t take any money from us, but my Dad has since told me that they think it was the wrong approach.

Running a household costs money; it just doesn’t make sense to have a grown adult pulling in €71,000 a year and not ponying up a material amount of cash.


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## MrEarl (2 Jan 2022)

Cervelo said:


> I think it depends on what you mean by "living at home, if their expecting to treat the home like an all inclusive hotel and still have everything done for them like cooking, cleaning and washing then somewhere in and around 20% of their net take home
> If they are looking after themselves and pulling their weight around the house and buying and cooking their own food I think somewhere around 10% of net pay would suffice in my humble opinion


At those rates, you'll have half of the members of AskAboutMoney looking to move in with you!


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## Cervelo (2 Jan 2022)

MrEarl said:


> At those rates, you'll have half of the members of AskAboutMoney looking to move in with you!


Haha, the commute might be a bit long at the moment


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## PebbleBeach2020 (2 Jan 2022)

Ask each of them what they think is fair to contribute. At the end if the day, they are yr children. I'd be more inclined if they were paying into a pension or saving to put towards a deposit then bully fir them and help them along the way. 

A contribution to food, utilities, heating, broadband etc no problem, but I wouldn't be one for charging rent tbh. Unless they were pissing their wages away.


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## Clamball (2 Jan 2022)

I would be inclined to the 35% of take home pay.  While it is wonderful for adult children to live at home with very little responsibility in terms of food, cleaning, washing, utilities etc., there is a significant impact on the household.

I would use the money to:
Do household improvements, all that wear and tear from the 20 odd years of kids, breakages, making do, buying low quality because that was all you could afford. 
Improve the quality of food in the groceries.
Get the more luxurious shampoos, soaps etc.
Leave the heating on for longer than normal.
All those jobs you have been putting off for years because you were shelling out money for extras and education for the kids.

Spending this way improves the lives of all in the household.  If you still have a mortgage pay it off faster.

And it focused the mind of the adult kid - do they want to continue to live at home or move out to spend their money as they wish.  My adult kids are either still in education or living out of home so this is all theoretical on my side.  I might think differently when it actually happens.  But I did have a friend who paid 50 % of take home pay to live at home.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

> As an aside, you should advise your son to start funding his pension to the max, i.e. 15% of €71,000 per year (I’m assuming he’s not Van Wilder). The impact of starting so young should be huge.



Thanks Gordon. I've spoken to him about AVC's and that's something that sparked an interest in him.  

I should have also said that he gets a "signing bonus" of €12K spread over 2 years.  He gets €6K in his first pay (as well as his monthly salary), and the remaining €6K is paid monthly from month 13 to month 24.  I explained to him that if he made an AVC of the €6K "signing bonus" that he'd get ~50% tax relief on this. However, he pointed out to me that as he'll only be paying tax for 4 months (_he'll be starting after the August pay run,_ _so his first salary payment will be towards the end of September_, he'll "only" be paying 20% tax, for the full year, so he's questioning the benefit of making this AVC.  Any tips on how to persuade him to make this AVC anyway even if he only gets the 20% benefit? From month 13 onwards though, he is going to make a monthly AVC of €500 for the second part of the payment.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

> Does the salary for offspring #1 include shift allowances/bonuses? If he is working shift hours, then a car will be essential. So that's an additional living cost.



@Thirsty no, that's the "basic" salary.  There are annual performance reviews and stock awards, so he could earn some more. 

He will need to drive to the office and use the toll bridge (he drove that for 3 months during the summer), so he's aware of daily toll charges as well as petrol.  It's amazing how fast people notice these costs when they're coming out their own pockets rather than Mum and Dad's bank account

He has an old car and is using this so petrol cost him a lot during the summer.  When he saw what he was being offered, he started to talk about a new electric car... probably a Tesla. I ran through the monthly repayments with him, so I think a Tesla is off the agenda!


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

> Ask each of them what they think is fair to contribute.



@PebbleBeach2020 my son certainly knows the "going rate" for renting in Dublin.  Some of his friends are renting apartments and are paying about €800 per month and that's before food and utilities, as others have pointed out.


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## MrEarl (2 Jan 2022)

Get him to pay for a charging point at your house (there's possibly a grant towards this cost), if he's looking to get an electric car - and then, enjoy the discussion as to what apportionment of the electricity bill he's going to pay.

Also, are there any tax benefits to having the kids "gift" their parents money, each year?


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

Clamball said:


> I would be inclined to the 35% of take home pay.  While it is wonderful for adult children to live at home with very little responsibility in terms of food, cleaning, washing, utilities etc., there is a significant impact on the household.
> 
> I would use the money to:
> Do household improvements, all that wear and tear from the 20 odd years of kids, breakages, making do, buying low quality because that was all you could afford.
> ...


Agree totally @Clamball It'd be nice to have a bit of extra cash to do what you've called out above.


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## luckystar (2 Jan 2022)

I would be of the opinion of: spend a third, save a third, hand a third up. Then up to the parent whether part of this is squirrelled away and perhaps handed back when buying a home etc. But I think it’s very important to take a decent chunk while also instilling the importance of saving


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Jan 2022)

A covenant might be of use here.

Kids can gift up to 5% of their income to parents and it can work well where the child is a higher rate taxpayer and the parent isn’t.


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## ATC110 (2 Jan 2022)

Clamball said:


> I would be inclined to the 35% of take home pay.  While it is wonderful for adult children to live at home with very little responsibility in terms of food, cleaning, washing, utilities etc., there is a significant impact on the household.
> 
> I would use the money to:
> Do household improvements, all that wear and tear from the 20 odd years of kids, breakages, making do, buying low quality because that was all you could afford.
> ...



Sound advice. There have been multiple posts on AAM by parents solving all their children's problems and bankrolling their lifestyles, storing up  future practical and mental health problems for them in the process.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Happy New Year.
> 
> Firstly, it’s great that they’re both doing well.
> 
> ...


It sounds like your daughter is joining the public sector, so she should familiarise herself with that system.

That's correct @Gordon Gekko That's where she's hoping to get a job.  I'm not familiar at all with the Public Sector pension.  Is there something she should be looking at? Thanks!


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## Leper (2 Jan 2022)

Deleted.


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## twofor1 (2 Jan 2022)

Ger1966 said:


> I'm wondering how much other parents are getting from their kids who are in full time employment?


Ours got off light paying €300 - €350 monthly, that enabled them to save for their own place, and we were happy just to get a contribution.

It worked, we got rid of them.


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## michaelm (2 Jan 2022)

I'd look for 25% of monthly net pay with a floor of €350 (and perhaps a ceiling of €1000).  No question about it, something need to be handed up.  There has to be an incentive to move out.


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## noproblem (2 Jan 2022)

Who made the decision they were going to live at home, and why?


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## Black Sheep (2 Jan 2022)

Of course you should be charging them rent.  I suspect they may have full board including extras, toiletries, maybe even the use of the family car at times etc so this may not be compared to basic rent and I don't understand the idea of returning it to them when they leave. By all means I would be in favour of giving them a leg up when they move into their own place and have done this for all of them.
You won't believe the difference in the general household bills when they're gone and you'll find yourselves starting all over again to live your new lifestyle


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## POC (2 Jan 2022)

Interesting to see the different opinions and methods of calculation.
Our eldest is in his second year working. He tells us most of his peers are paying less than him, if anything. 
As a point of principle, we want him to pay something, but still be able to save. We asked for €300 for his first year working. The plan is to increase it every year - but stay below market rate. He's currently paying €400. He tells his younger brothers he's paying 'rent'.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

noproblem said:


> Who made the decision they were going to live at home, and why?


It was my son @noproblem who brought it up.  

He mentioned one of his friends is paying €800 per month and he also mentioned another friend who has a car loan repayment and rent coming out of his account a few days after he gets paid and when these are taken, he has less than half his salary left.  Both of these lads are from Dublin and my son didn't see the point in doing this, particularly if they're trying to save for their own place.  We (my wife and I) said that we have no problem with him living at "home" when he starts working, but he'll have to contribute.  I'm just trying to see how much others, who are in a similar position to me, are getting from their kids.


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## misemoi (2 Jan 2022)

Could you calculate the cost of running the home, eg utilities, mortgage, any food they use? Or estimate how much you could get renting the room under the same conditions to arrive at a figure ?


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

Black Sheep said:


> Of course you should be charging them rent.  I suspect they may have full board including extras, toiletries, maybe even the use of the family car at times etc so this may not be compared to basic rent and I don't understand the idea of returning it to them when they leave. By all means I would be in favour of giving them a leg up when they move into their own place and have done this for all of them.
> You won't believe the difference in the general household bills when they're gone and you'll find yourselves starting all over again to live your new lifestyle


You're correct @Black Sheep. Both have full board with all the "trimmings" e.g. laundry, TV, broadband. 

My son has his own car (it's a 15 year old banger. He paid his insurance in October with the money he earned while doing his placement). That was "unexpected", so I totally get your final point re the difference in bills! 

My daughter is learning to drive in family car (failed her test a few weeks before Christmas, so there'll be more money spent on pre-test lessons )


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## Clamball (2 Jan 2022)

POC said:


> He tells us most of his peers are paying less than him, if anything.
> As a point of principle, we want him to pay something, but still be able to save. We asked for €300 for his first year working. The plan is to increase it every year - but stay below market rate. He's currently paying €400. He tells his younger brothers he's paying 'rent'.


I would get the same argument from my kids, that their friends would pay nothing living at home, so I would be be ready with my point of view first
- need to make a contribution to the household expenses if living at home
- perfectly happy for them to move out if they don’t want to contribute
I think keeping the emotion out of it, being very matter of fact, that why would an adult not contribute to a household where they are living if they are earning.  It can be a wired transition going from a dependant to a contributor, but none of us get to use all our wages for leisure activities or savings.


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## noproblem (2 Jan 2022)

It will be interesting when your son and daughter bring their partners, friends, etc, back to YOUR house. If and when they do start to pay for their "stay", have rules, or you'll very quickly, with your wife, become the tenant. All good and well the parents helping out grown up offspring (not children anymore) with saving for deposits, but be careful it doesn't get too comfortable for them. I'm all for helping out, in almost every way. However, this is a road I would be reluctant to go down, and always have been for many, many reasons. My children always knew this, they're grown up now, with their own kids, and I well know the toll it takes to mind them all over long holiday weekends, like Xmas, Easter and bank holiday w'kends too. It seldom occurs to them that those nice free days might be the time we ourselves might wish to spend away from it all. Am I selfish? Not a bit. Impossible to calculate what we gave up to sometimes enjoy those days. Do what you have to GER1966, but be careful and sensible about it.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

misemoi said:


> Could you calculate the cost of running the home, eg utilities, mortgage, any food they use? Or estimate how much you could get renting the room under the same conditions to arrive at a figure ?


Food is certainly expensive @misemoi. At one stage, I counted 5 different types of milk in the fridge .... "full fat", "low fat", vanilla, oat and soya - with the last 3 being over €2 per litre . I've noticed too that the food bill jumps a lot when child #3 goes grocery shopping with my wife. We make a conscious decision now that only my wife does the weekly grocery shop.


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## Ger1966 (2 Jan 2022)

noproblem said:


> It will be interesting when your son and daughter bring their partners, friends, etc, back to YOUR house. If and when they do start to pay for their "stay", have rules, or you'll very quickly, with your wife, become the tenant. All good and well the parents helping out grown up offspring (not children anymore) with saving for deposits, but be careful it doesn't get too comfortable for them. I'm all for helping out, in almost every way. However, this is a road I would be reluctant to go down, and always have been for many, many reasons. My children always knew this, they're grown up now, with their own kids, and I well know the toll it takes to mind them all over long holiday weekends, like Xmas, Easter and bank holiday w'kends too. It seldom occurs to them that those nice free days might be the time we ourselves might wish to spend away from it all. Am I selfish? Not a bit. Impossible to calculate what we gave up to sometimes enjoy those days. Do what you have to GER1966, but be careful and sensible about it.


Excellent point @noproblem.

While I'm not a grandad yet - and hopefully won't be for a while!! - I have older brothers and sisters who are, and I see them being called on to mind the grandchildren on bank holiday weekends so their children can have a "break". Unfortunately, their kids don't consider that their own parents might have plans for those same weekends. 

My wife has suggested that we down-size to a smaller house once child #3 gets sorted and use some of the proceeds to buy a one bedroom apartment in Spain or France and spend 6 months of the year there.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (3 Jan 2022)

If he can rent in Dublin for 800 why the hell would be want to live at home and pay 1000 or 35% of nett pay?! Will you and the wife let me bring home girls or fella if that's his thing, after nights out? Will you allow your daughter to bring back a lad if she wanted???

Seriously, do you want to treat your children as tenants or do you as your loved ones. Charge them a nominal amount, 250 or 300 and let them enjoy life, have experiences, travel, and save for a house.

Remember you can rent-a-room for €14,000 max a year. Any higher than that and you'll pay 50% tax on everything received. I'm not wealthy but before I'd charge my children rent that is being proposed here when they get to working age. Instead, I'll give them advice and guidance. I'd imagine they will need help and assistance when they get to that age in 20+ years time than me taking money off them when my mortgage in all likelihood will be paid and I'll be nearly 60!


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## Gordon Gekko (3 Jan 2022)

The point has been made previously that there’s a difference between rent and “full board”.

We’re talking about an adult earning €71,000 a year and living with his parents. Free board, free utilities, free food.

I genuinely think €1,000 a month is about right, but I would give him the money back when he’s buying a place.

As for having “guests”, I’d go with my own experience; I wasn’t allowed to bring randomers back but longer term girlfriends were fine.


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## MrEarl (3 Jan 2022)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> Remember you can rent-a-room for €14,000 max a year.


That's €1,166.67 per month - exclusively for rent,  it didn't include food, contribution to light and heat, TV, broadband, laundry etc. All of those perks are very likely to be included, when adult kids live with their parents. Renting at €800 pm also doesn't include all of those benefits, I'd bet.

If someone is earning, they need to pay their way... Even if its at a discounted level, to what it would cost them, if they lived away from home.


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## MrEarl (3 Jan 2022)

Gordon Gekko said:


> As for having “guests”, I’d go with my own experience; I wasn’t allowed to bring randomers back but longer term girlfriends were fine.


While that sounds about right, things have changed a lot, since we were all  young, so what seems reasonable to our age group, might be completely unreasonable to the 20 somethings. Remember, they've got Tinder etc.


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## Gordon Gekko (3 Jan 2022)

I think that the most important thing, and especially in the context of a site like AAM, is teaching kids of all ages that money doesn’t grow on trees.


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## JohnJay (3 Jan 2022)

I hope all those parents who treat their children like tenants are saving all that cash so that they can pay their children to be their carers when they get older and need someone to look after them. 


If an adult child is earing 60/70k plus, then its time for them to get out in to the real world and rent a room somewhere else and start adulting. But some young lad or girl earning a few quid in their first job then be happy that they are contributing a few quid for the grocery bill. 

You brought them in to this world. Its not an easy time to be a young adult. Give them a break. They might have to choose your nursing home some day!


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## Pinoy adventure (3 Jan 2022)

Gordon Gekko said:


> I think that the most important thing, and especially in the context of a site like AAM, is teaching kids of all ages that money doesn’t grow on trees.



I though everybody has a money tree these days


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## Gordon Gekko (3 Jan 2022)

Pinoy adventure said:


> I though everybody has a money tree these days


Only Sinn Fein/IRA…


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## huskerdu (3 Jan 2022)

the amount of rent is these circumstances is very dependent on the household income and outgoings . In a one income family, with a mortgage , the child’s income could be a significant addition . two earners with the mortgage paid off are likely to not need the money , so it’s about the principle of contributing . 
Also, contributing to a household goes beyond money . If you ask your adult children for money and they get a full hotel service , including cleaning and laundry, they sre definitely not going to learn to adult . 
Regardless of the money , rules need to be set about sharing a living space which means sharing the chores. In fact, I think it’s more important than money


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## Neek01 (3 Jan 2022)

It really depends how much you need the money. If you are struggling with a mortgage or loans from putting them through college I would discuss this with them and come up with a reasonable figure of what would allow you to live more comfortably, and also allow them to enjoy their new earnings and save a decent amount. Both are going to be on decent wages so I would definitely expect a contribution. 
I would also discuss with them the importance of setting up a standing order to a savings account that can't be easily accessed. Get the amount being paid to you set up as a standing order also and you won't have to be reminding them, plus it will help if they were to apply for a mortgage. 
I didn't pay much at home but I bought food, cooked dinners for everyone, cleaned, funded my own car etc. I think if your adult kids want to live at home they need to be somewhat helpful also, not creating extra work constantly.


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## JohnJay (3 Jan 2022)

our wonderful education system sends our 18 year olds out in to the world proficient  in the modh coinníollach, but doesn't teach them how to drive a car, cook for themselves or put a roof over their heads. I'm not a parent, but surely a parents role should include guiding them on how to save a bit of money so that they can eventually live independently. I'm not sure charging them market-rate rent is the way to do that!


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## MrEarl (3 Jan 2022)

JohnJay said:


> I hope all those parents who treat their children like tenants are saving all that cash so that they can pay their children to be their carers when they get older and need someone to look after them.
> 
> 
> If an adult child is earing 60/70k plus, then its time for them to get out in to the real world and rent a room somewhere else and start adulting. But some young lad or girl earning a few quid in their first job then be happy that they are contributing a few quid for the grocery bill.
> ...


Dare I suggest that kids owe their parents Big Time, for their first 18-24 years on the planet?

Very few kids were brought up on bread and water, most had TVs in their bedrooms (with Netflix), a tablet, the latest mobile phone,  a decent weekly allowance, a wardrobe full of designer labels, a holiday with their pals (pre Covid). etc etc etc. Those kids who didn't have all of these things, and more, probably had parents who struggled the hardest, to provide what they could.

This endless sense of entitlement from Millennials is disgraceful, and needs to be stopped.


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## cremeegg (3 Jan 2022)

Here is my take.

Don't charge your kids 'rent'. Its a family home, they are part of the family.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask them to contribute to the expenses of the home if they are earning an income. Maybe just a small contribution if its a low paid or part time student type job. A full contribution if they are earning a proper wage, and €35k is certainly a proper wage. I do not see why you would ask the high earner to pay more, that's hardly fair.

A full contribution towards the costs of running the home, electricity, heat, insurance, food. 

As for the labour needs in running a home, washing, cooking, cleaning, lawn mowing, they should do their share there too.

Well done on getting your kids to this stage, I hope mine will turn out as well.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (3 Jan 2022)

JohnJay said:


> I hope all those parents who treat their children like tenants are saving all that cash so that they can pay their children to be their carers when they get older and need someone to look after them.
> 
> 
> If an adult child is earing 60/70k plus, then its time for them to get out in to the real world and rent a room somewhere else and start adulting. But some young lad or girl earning a few quid in their first job then be happy that they are contributing a few quid for the grocery bill.
> ...


Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Comparing your generation to the generation of today isn't comparable. I don't know many 30-50 year olds who have Saud that they'd love to be in college or finishing college these days.

Charging your son €1000 a month rent (what is your mortgage each month in fairness) is absolutely crazy. 

They are your kids. Teach them money yes. I'd rather take great comfort and pride if my children were earning that amount of money out of college, and making saving for a house and seeing the world, travelling and experiencing life.

The daily grind starts quickly, once they aren't blowing their money and they are sensible, Christ sake cut them some slack. I'd hope your son would sooner move out and gain some independence before paying €1000 a month to rent a bedroom from his parents


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## Thirsty (3 Jan 2022)

JohnJay said:


> parents role should include guiding them on how to save a bit of money


Come back to me when you have mid/late teens in your house & let me know how much of your 'guidance' they listen to!


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## Leper (3 Jan 2022)

What an interesting thread. I put up my tuppence worth yesterday and deleted it almost immediately. I am amazed at the posters here who look on their children as products who must contribute X% of take home pay as a "thank-you" for their upbringing and accommodation. Then I see a poster saying his kids are the ones who'll decide in what rest home he'll spend his last weeks before snuffing it.

I'm a grandparent and I would hope our kids (now parents) would treat their off-spring not like a money making product. There has to be some middle ground where those kids who can afford it can contribute to the family expenses while residing there. The last thing I would want is alienate our kids over money. Life is not easy and lots get thrown at everybody and if it's only money problems then be thankful. Yes, I believe kids should contribute towards their keep, but I think also that they should contribute to the well being of the household (cutting grass, cooking. painting etc).

But, treating them as a money making asset will make an ass of you. We come this way only once; enjoy while it lasts. Oh! and stay around as long as you can, grandchildren easily outweigh your own kids in nearly every way. They think grandparents are heroes. They're right!


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## Ger1966 (3 Jan 2022)

JohnJay said:


> I hope all those parents who treat their children like tenants are saving all that cash so that they can pay their children to be their carers when they get older and need someone to look after them.
> 
> 
> If an adult child is earing 60/70k plus, then its time for them to get out in to the real world and rent a room somewhere else and start adulting. But some young lad or girl earning a few quid in their first job then be happy that they are contributing a few quid for the grocery bill.
> ...





> They might have to choose your nursing home some day!





>


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## Ger1966 (3 Jan 2022)

cremeegg said:


> Here is my take.
> 
> Don't charge your kids 'rent'. Its a family home, they are part of the family.
> 
> ...


Rent probably sounds a bit mercenary all right @cremeegg. I should call it a "contribution" .... just like the €3K that I pay to their college each year is a "contribution" rather than a "student fee"


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## Ger1966 (3 Jan 2022)

Leper said:


> What an interesting thread. I put up my tuppence worth yesterday and deleted it almost immediately. I am amazed at the posters here who look on their children as products who must contribute X% of take home pay as a "thank-you" for their upbringing and accommodation. Then I see a poster saying his kids are the ones who'll decide in what rest home he'll spend his last weeks before snuffing it.
> 
> I'm a grandparent and I would hope our kids (now parents) would treat their off-spring not like a money making product. There has to be some middle ground where those kids who can afford it can contribute to the family expenses while residing there. The last thing I would want is alienate our kids over money. Life is not easy and lots get thrown at everybody and if it's only money problems then be thankful. Yes, I believe kids should contribute towards their keep, but I think also that they should contribute to the well being of the household (cutting grass, cooking. painting etc).
> 
> But, treating them as a money making asset will make an ass of you. We come this way only once; enjoy while it lasts. Oh! and stay around as long as you can, grandchildren easily outweigh your own kids in nearly every way. They think grandparents are heroes. They're right!


Hi @Leper It wasn't my intention for the post to come across as seeing my kids as "money making asset". I've been parenting now for almost 24 years and I'm still learning!  Each phase throws up something new, and that next phase, for me, is where they're getting ready to go into the "real world".

I was curious to see how others handled this.


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## Hansen (3 Jan 2022)

Wow, I’m tearing up at the goodwill some of the parents on here are showing their adult kids.
Back in the day my parents encouraged me to set up an SSIA in my name when I was working and living with them so they could use it as well as their own to lodge money into it, not for me mind! And I was expected to pay rent weekly but given one evening’s notice when I was asked to leave, but that’s not relevant here.
My question is if adult kids are paying rent to their parents surely they are entitled to renters rights some form of notice/tax relief on the rent they’re paying at home?


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## Thirsty (3 Jan 2022)

Hansen said:


> entitled to renters rights some form of notice/tax relief on the rent they’re paying at home?


Nope.


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## noproblem (3 Jan 2022)

JohnJay said:


> You brought them in to this world. Its not an easy time to be a young adult. Give them a break. They might have to choose your nursing home some day!


Better again if they took care of the parents as a thank you. No need for a home then.


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## niceoneted (3 Jan 2022)

They are adults. Why not sit down with them and discuss it. They might intend to stay living at home. That would be my starting point. Break it down to an amount for bed/ utilities/ basic food items. Get them to cook an night of two a week too.


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## Leper (4 Jan 2022)

Working "children" residing in the "nest" know they should be contributing to the economy of the household. If they have to be reminded, then something went wrong along the way of their upbringing. Most of them know they are going to inherit the nest anyway so it is in their own interest to contribute to its well-being. 

The "kids" want to fly the nest too. They want their independence. They'll soon discover that life outside of the nest is more trying than they expected with having to pay rent. utilities, deal with landlord, do washing, cook, upkeep etc. Mom's taxi is no longer an option either. 

Niceoneted (above) hit the nail on the head, talk to your kids and you'll soon learn if your parenting skills were up to the mark.


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## Thirsty (4 Jan 2022)

Leper said:


> talk to your kids


As previously recommended by Thirsty in post #5


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## Ceist Beag (4 Jan 2022)

MrEarl said:


> Dare I suggest that kids owe their parents Big Time, for their first 18-24 years on the planet?
> 
> Very few kids were brought up on bread and water, most had TVs in their bedrooms (with Netflix), a tablet, the latest mobile phone,  a decent weekly allowance, a wardrobe full of designer labels, a holiday with their pals (pre Covid). etc etc etc. Those kids who didn't have all of these things, and more, probably had parents who struggled the hardest, to provide what they could.
> 
> This endless sense of entitlement from Millennials is disgraceful, and needs to be stopped.


Whilst I agree with the general thrust of your post MrEarl, is this really what "most" kids have these days? TV in their bedroom is an absolute No-No for us (including ourselves). Latest mobile phone? No again, they get a replacement with roughly the same frequency as ourselves (i.e. every 4 years or so) and never get a new one (refurbished are fine). Wardrobe full of designer labels, hardly, my daughter and her friends all shop in Penneys! Holiday with their pals - for kids? Not a chance. Maybe you are referring to adults earning a wage here MrEarl, not kids?

I think a couple of posters put it exactly as I would. Sit them down, discuss the cost of running and maintaining a household, ask them what they would view as being fair and reach an agreed figure. I absolutely don't agree with those who suggest the son earning more should pay more, why should he? He's already paying more tax, don't introduce yet another PAYE levy on the chap! However, again as others have said, do explain the value of a savings account (or investment fund) to start regularly setting aside money. Also explain the value of goals for those savings. And finally, again as has been said by many, don't just focus on the money. If not already doing so, ensure everyone does their fair share of the work around the house and now is an ideal time to tackle any jobs around that have been put on the long finger.
Ultimately look on this as bonus time with your children as they will be gone soon enough but also look on it as more time to impart some of what you have learned when it comes to life skills.


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## Steven Barrett (4 Jan 2022)

I certainly wouldn't be treating my kids as income generating tenants. I would look for a contribution from both. Slightly more from the boy but not double just because he earns double. 

I would take one of two approaches:

1. charge a higher amount and keep some of it as savings that they would get back when they move out. 
2. A lower amount, which is used as part of housekeeping. 

I would discuss this with them both and let them know if you are saving money for them. They may both decide different options. A charge of €100 - €125 a week - €400 - €500 a month would be reasonable to me. 

I would also tell them that there's one type of milk bought. If they want oat milk or vegan ice cream, they can get it themselves. 


And they can do their own ironing


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## Steven Barrett (4 Jan 2022)

...and I 100% agree with @Gordon Gekko on teaching your kids the importance of saving from the beginning of their working career. Making contributions to pension plans and having a savings account is very important. The boy will be able to do this quite easily given his starting salary but the girl will find it harder to do so.


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## HecTom (5 Jan 2022)

I agree with you Luckystar on the third thing. It did me no harm and I fact helped me out in my working life.
Parents have this financial struggle  in bringing up kids but now it's your time it's only fair. Make sure they don't get too comfortable or they'll never leave and you get consumed in their financial struggles. Best to give them a wee shove out of the nest.


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## Firefly (6 Jan 2022)

I would actually "charge" each of them the same. Your son is already paying more in tax for earning more than your daughter, so I wouldn't penalise him again.


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## Purple (6 Jan 2022)

Who the hell washes their adult children's clothes for them?
My 18 and 19 year old do their own laundry and if I'm not there to make dinner I tell them what's in the fridge for them to cook for themselves. My 12 year old is well able to cook and put washes on. 
Rather than taking rent how about making sure they can do laundry and cook and wipe their own backside.

I'd make sure they are saving and have a pension but I don't think I'd take rent. I'd offer them the option of saving a good chunk of their take home pay, locked away for 5 years plus, or giving it to be in rent. They'll be working and paying rent and mortgages and looking after their own kids for long enough. Let them have a few years with the time and resources to travel and enjoy themselves first.


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## Blackrock1 (6 Jan 2022)

I have read a lot of this but not all, but to be honest i would question a) why you would want them to live at home and b) why they would want that. My situation is a little different as i went to boarding school and then lived away from home for 3rd level (in fairness costs of this were paid by my folks) so was effectively out of the house at 13 but anyone earning a reasonable salary should make their own independence a priority. Its best for everyone if they both move out and start making their own way in the world imo.


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## Ger1966 (6 Jan 2022)

> a) why you would want them to live at home and b) why they would want that.


@Blackrock1 

a) - I don't, but if they start paying full-market rent, then having a deposit for a place of their own will be even harder than it is;
b) - see a

How about you? When you finished 3rd level and got a job, did you continue to live away from home (assuming your home was in the same location as where you got your job?)


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## Blackrock1 (7 Jan 2022)

Ger1966 said:


> @Blackrock1
> 
> a) - I don't, but if they start paying full-market rent, then having a deposit for a place of their own will be even harder than it is;
> b) - see a
> ...


Yes as soon as i got a job i got my own place, it would not have entered my head to move home to be honest, and im sure my parents didnt really want to see me staggering in at 2am on a friday night and sleeping it off until lunch time time the next day either 

Independence is very important, and its getting harder for kids to have any, i see with my own young kids, i need to actively encourage them to engage with say shop keepers or waiter or people like that as the default now is for parents to do everything for them.


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## losttheplot (7 Jan 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> Yes as soon as i got a job i got my own place, it would not have entered my head to move home to be honest, and im sure my parents didnt really want to see me staggering in at 2am on a friday night and sleeping it off until lunch time time the next day either
> 
> Independence is very important, and its getting harder for kids to have any, i see with my own young kids, i need to actively encourage them to engage with say shop keepers or waiter or people like that as the default now is for parents to do everything for them.


Previous generations grew up with a single TV in the house and maybe sharing a bedroom with siblings. We couldn't wait to get out.


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## Steven Barrett (7 Jan 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> Yes as soon as i got a job i got my own place, it would not have entered my head to move home to be honest, and im sure my parents didnt really want to see me staggering in at 2am on a friday night and sleeping it off until lunch time time the next day either


My friends from college who were from the country all continued to rent in Dublin once they finished college. Us Dubs, all continued to live with our parents. Looking back, I wish I moved out earlier.


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## Blackrock1 (7 Jan 2022)

Steven Barrett said:


> My friends from college who were from the country all continued to rent in Dublin once they finished college. Us Dubs, all continued to live with our parents. Looking back, I wish I moved out earlier.


i remember having a conversation with a guy i ended up hiring who was in university the same time as me, he lived at home and i was living with friends, the more we spoke about college and our experience the more he realised that our experiences were quite different and he felt he missed out on a lot of that. But i guess most dubs that goto 3rd level will live at home.


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## noproblem (7 Jan 2022)

Steven Barrett said:


> My friends from college who were from the country all continued to rent in Dublin once they finished college. Us Dubs, all continued to live with our parents. Looking back, I wish I moved out earlier.


Are you yourself not from the same country as your "friends from college"?


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## Purple (8 Jan 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> I have read a lot of this but not all, but to be honest i would question a) why you would want them to live at home and b) why they would want that. My situation is a little different as i went to boarding school and then lived away from home for 3rd level (in fairness costs of this were paid by my folks) so was effectively out of the house at 13 but anyone earning a reasonable salary should make their own independence a priority. Its best for everyone if they both move out and start making their own way in the world imo.


Different world now. Rents are far higher so it’s much harder for young people to be independent.


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## Leper (8 Jan 2022)

Deleted -Thanks Purple (below) - bit of another senior moment from me.


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## Purple (8 Jan 2022)

@Leper , wrong thread?


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## Clamball (8 Jan 2022)

There are as many different views on here as there are parents and kids.  So the solution will be unique to each family.  You are clear that you would prefer them to live independently but you worry about the high cost of that and they may choose to live at home but you are clear that if they do so you would like a contribution to the household expenses.  

Have a family meeting, lay out the costs of running the household.  What % of your take home pay it is.  If the kids want to live at home when they are working mutually come to an agreement of what contribution they want to make to the household expenses.  Deliberately set it higher than the kid is comfortable with since you are clear you would prefer them to live independently and passing this over to you every month should be a bit painful.  Definitely don’t call it rent.  

Whether you use the money to improve the household or save to give back to them when they are looking to purchase a house is up to you and dependant on your family circumstances.  

Staying respectful and matter of fact about the process and leave the emotion out of it.  (Of course you are planning to contribute to the household expenses now that you are earning and living at home, so let’s decide on what is fair for all…)


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## misemoi (8 Jan 2022)

It also brings to mind the varying careers of your children, and what they are suited to and how they are compensated. So of for example your child becomes a teacher, they might need less support with raising kids as they have more time off, but might appreciate financial help. A person with a well paid job with less time off might appreciate grandparents who can help with childcare. So it's not always black & white & there are many ways to support your children.


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## Baby boomer (8 Jan 2022)

I'm absolutely amazed at the tone and content of some of the responses here.  There seems to be a simmering intergenerational resentment that I find hard to fathom.  The way I look at it, building wealth is a multi-generational family project.  We have, or should have, evolved past the "push them out of the nest" strategy of the animal kingdom!   Each succeeding generation should aspire to leave the overall family situation in a healthier financial state than they were born into themselves.

To me, this is a fundamental parental responsibility.  It's your choice to have them, after all, so do right by them!  First comes education in basic values of self reliance and responsibility, so teach them to cook, clean, shop, tidy, do laundry and basic household, garden and car maintenance.  That goes for boys AND girls, BTW.  

Then comes education in financial matters and the instilling of good habits.  Explain how the family finances work, and what goals the family is working towards.  This includes avoiding/minimizing short term debt, financing the family home and making provision for parental pensions, children's education and other investments.

Then it's education and getting them on a good career and financial trajectory.  Make it clear that you will help to the extent you can to get them set up and established but that it's ultimately their own responsibility.  

The key thing here is balance.  You shouldn't go beyond what you can reasonably afford.  And parents need to look after their own essential needs like mortgage and pension provision, before helping out adult children.  

Applying these principles, I would suggest that the "rent" question solves itself. As long as they want to stay at home, that's fine, they are welcome, it's the family home after all. .It should come fairly naturally that they help out a bit at home, both by doing a fair share of the household work (which they've learned to do anyway) and by picking up expenses like groceries, the odd bill, or perhaps buy some furniture or other stuff for the house.  

Encourage them to save to buy a place of their own.  Matching their savings, euro for euro, is a good idea if you can afford it.  (Again, parental assistance should not be at the expense of necessary parental pension provision, or - worse still - equity release from the family home.)   If they do want to move out and rent, crunch the numbers with them and show how that eats into savings potential and lengthens the time before they can buy.  Then it's their choice.  

And instil the idea that what you're now doing for them, should hopefully allow them to do likewise for their children (your grandchildren) when that time comes.  

Finally, tell them what provisions you've made in your wills and give them an idea of what they might expect to get - hopefully in many decades time!


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## HecTom (8 Jan 2022)

I think most of us would like our adult children around us for a variety of reasons preferably with their own front door. It's great to be able to help them achieve this goal as alot of parents are doing this today.

 If they do continue to live in the family home helping out with bills etc. this becomes part of their education.The issue of independence should always be on the agenda.
It would appear from most of the comments that we all think much the same. It really depends on what stage we are at in life.


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## Blackrock1 (10 Jan 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> I'm absolutely amazed at the tone and content of some of the responses here.  There seems to be a simmering intergenerational resentment that I find hard to fathom.  The way I look at it, building wealth is a multi-generational family project.  We have, or should have, evolved past the "push them out of the nest" strategy of the animal kingdom!   Each succeeding generation should aspire to leave the overall family situation in a healthier financial state than they were born into themselves.
> 
> To me, this is a fundamental parental responsibility.  It's your choice to have them, after all, so do right by them!  First comes education in basic values of self reliance and responsibility, so teach them to cook, clean, shop, tidy, do laundry and basic household, garden and car maintenance.  That goes for boys AND girls, BTW.
> 
> ...



i didnt see any intergenerational resentment at all to be honest. While i agree with some of your post, the overarching tone seems to be let them live at home as long as they want. If you think thats healthy then i would fundamentally disagree, young adults need independence and need to grow up and spread their wings. If there is a defined period where someone is actively saving towards a goal, then that makes sense but otherwise i dont think its healthy.


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## Purple (10 Jan 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> i didnt see any intergenerational resentment at all to be honest. While i agree with some of your post, the overarching tone seems to be let them live at home as long as they want. If you think thats healthy then i would fundamentally disagree, young adults need independence and need to grow up and spread their wings. If there is a defined period where someone is actively saving towards a goal, then that makes sense but otherwise i dont think its healthy.


Yes, but with the massive concentration of wealth in the older generation over the last 12 years it is much harder for young people to spread their wings. We have used made up money to replace our wealth since the crash and that is the main driver of house price increases and the stock market boom that's replaced our pension pot losses. It has also caused a corresponding devaluation of labour in real terms. That means our kids end up having to stay at home longer. We can't have it both ways; we mortgaged their future to replace out wealth, we can't now tell them to get out there and make their way in the world when our selfishness has made that so much harder than it was when we were starting off.

Any intergenerational resentment should be aimed squarely at us the parents.


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## Leper (10 Jan 2022)

Purple said:


> Yes, but with the massive concentration of wealth in the older generation over the last 12 years it is much harder for young people to spread their wings. We have used made up money to replace our wealth since the crash and that is the main driver of house price increases and the stock market boom that's replaced our pension pot losses. It has also caused a corresponding devaluation of labour in real terms. That means our kids end up having to stay at home longer. We can't have it both ways; we mortgaged their future to replace out wealth, we can't now tell them to get out there and make their way in the world when our selfishness has made that so much harder than it was when we were starting off.
> 
> Any intergenerational resentment should be aimed squarely at us the parents.


1. It has never been easier for young people to spread their wings. Bank of Mom and Dad, cheap air travel, university education, labour laws  all contribute to the welfare of our youth. 
2. Us older folks are not using any made up money. We earned the stuff through thick and thin. No Nanny State existed for us. And now it's about time we thought of ourselves first (for a change). 
3. Us Oldies but Goldies never caused any devaluation of the Euro, blew the stock market or advised the banks to lend too much to people who were never going to repay. We're too wise, something that is missing from the mouths of those who are coming after us.
4. We worked, we had no PUP. It was work or starve. When I started working fulltime there was no five day week, little trade union representation, and a system that taxed us to the hilt.
5. When I look back I don't see how intergenerational resentment should be aimed at us.


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## Purple (10 Jan 2022)

Leper said:


> 1. It has never been easier for young people to spread their wings. Bank of Mom and Dad, cheap air travel, university education, labour laws  all contribute to the welfare of our youth.


Bank of Mum and Dad? How upper middle class of you.


Leper said:


> 2. Us older folks are not using any made up money. We earned the stuff through thick and thin. No Nanny State existed for us. And now it's about time we thought of ourselves first (for a change).


I remember the 80's. There was Dole and Welfare around back then. My mother grew up in a Council House. That was "Nanny State".


Leper said:


> 3. Us Oldies but Goldies never caused any devaluation of the Euro, blew the stock market or advised the banks to lend too much to people who were never going to repay. We're too wise, something that is missing from the mouths of those who are coming after us.
> 4. We worked, we had no PUP. It was work or starve. When I started working fulltime there was no five day week, little trade union representation, and a system that taxed us to the hilt.


Yes, and when the stock market did collapse and property prices collapsed governments (made up of older people) made up a load of money to re-inflate the economy and the price of property. That's where the money in the bank of Mum and Dad came from. You may well have earned it but it was wiped out in the crash. It was gone, a good half of it, and it replaced by made up money which was a result of a political decision.


Leper said:


> 5. When I look back I don't see how intergenerational resentment should be aimed at us.


Open both eyes. 
Do you acknowledge that there was a financial collapse that resulted in a property price crash?
Do you acknowledge that international money supply has doubled since then and that money had been the main driver in stock market and property price increases? 
Do you acknowledge that without State intervention the Banks would have collapsed and your Savings would be gone? 
Do you acknowledge that without massive borrowing your State pension would be gone? 
Do you acknowledge that you won't be repaying that money?

Do you see the link between the above and high property and rental prices?


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## Blackrock1 (10 Jan 2022)

Purple said:


> Yes, but with the massive concentration of wealth in the older generation over the last 12 years it is much harder for young people to spread their wings. We have used made up money to replace our wealth since the crash and that is the main driver of house price increases and the stock market boom that's replaced our pension pot losses. It has also caused a corresponding devaluation of labour in real terms. That means our kids end up having to stay at home longer. We can't have it both ways; we mortgaged their future to replace out wealth, we can't now tell them to get out there and make their way in the world when our selfishness has made that so much harder than it was when we were starting off.
> 
> Any intergenerational resentment should be aimed squarely at us the parents.


im not the older generation, nor the younger generation to be fair, but i started working say 16/17 years ago, i got a placement at a large accounting firm, it paid 28k a year starting i think, one of the OP's kids is starting on 70 odd with add ons to come, that kid cant afford to spread their wings??? and i could.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (10 Jan 2022)

i started working in dublin 17 years ago in the IFSC on 23000 euros a year. I afforded rent, living, travelling home and savings on that.


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## Thirsty (10 Jan 2022)

Leper said:


> We worked, we had no PUP. It was work or starve. When I started working fulltime there was no five day week, little trade union representation, and a system that taxed us to the hilt.


Hm.... shades of Monty Python -_Château de Chasselas_


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## Baby boomer (10 Jan 2022)

My thirty year old, qualified in the same discipline as myself, is earning a larger salary than I ever did with one of the big MNCs.  I'm both delighted for her and envious at the same time.  That kind of job didn't exist at that salary level back in the day.  Point is some things are better for this generation, some are worse - swings and roundabouts.


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## Purple (11 Jan 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> My thirty year old, qualified in the same discipline as myself, is earning a larger salary than I ever did with one of the big MNCs.  I'm both delighted for her and envious at the same time.  That kind of job didn't exist at that salary level back in the day.  Point is some things are better for this generation, some are worse - swings and roundabouts.


I bet she couldn't buy your house though.
I agree that some things are better but many of the important things are worse. When I bought my first apartment in 1993 it cost €70k. That apartment is now with €400k. Rent was €500 a month. It's now €2500 a month. Wages haven't got up five fold since then, they have doubled. In real terms rent is 2.5 times higher and prices are nearly 3 times higher. Is your daughter earning 3 times what you earned?


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