# The Difference between Error and Fraud



## Gen360 (26 Oct 2017)

I think at this stage we can all accept the whole Tracker issue can be attributed to some sort of Error or Errors in the banks, obviously there was no collusion between banks or any directives given from the top, just a simple and coincidentally systematic Error.

if the banks were notified of the Error by thousands of customers and the Error was not rectified immediately, say within oh, 2 or 3 years and the Error is used to profit those who made the Error does that become a fraud?

Now this is obviously all hypothetical as all banks hold their customers in the highest regard and there is no suggestion that anyone acted inappropriately.

Just wondering what the difference is between Error and Fraud


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## SaySomething (26 Oct 2017)

Intent...


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## Gen360 (26 Oct 2017)

@SaySomething Surely if there has been an acknowledgement of error and no rectification, that would suggest intent, or is the non rectification just another error. They are really good at errors.


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## noproblem (26 Oct 2017)

Was having a meal with some friends last night and what you've said above came up in conversation. One of our group also mentioned the fact that customers of banks are paying back loans on houses, apartments, but don't live in them and have them rented out which in a lot of cases is in contravention of their loan contract. Made me wonder if some of the people looking for compensation now are some of those and if so, do 2 wrongs make a right? Might be another can of worms to be opened up if institutions feel the need?


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## SaySomething (26 Oct 2017)

The burden of proof is on the complainant.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Oct 2017)

noproblem said:


> customers of banks are paying back loans on houses, apartments, but don't live in them and have them rented out which in a lot of cases is in contravention of their loan contract.



A very interesting point. 

Maybe the lender should seek redress and compensation from the borrower? 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Oct 2017)

Gen360 said:


> I think at this stage we can all accept the whole Tracker issue can be attributed to some sort of Error or Errors in the banks,



Don't include me in that "we can all". 

Many of the cases are differences of opinion on what a contract and a fixed rate agreement mean.  There is no error as such.  

If the bank made an error and switched my 1% tracker to a 3.5% tracker without me doing anything and I pointed it out to them, I would expect them to check if other customers were affected and to fix it for them. 

Not one of the Springboard customers who were charged the wrong rate had complained.   It would have been good for ptsb if one of them had noticed it early on and they could have fixed it. 

Brendan


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## MrBanks (26 Oct 2017)

It was just a huge coincidence, that the differences of opinion on every mortgage contract favoured the bank. No error as such, just a difference in opinon? Are you really saying that? 
Not fraud either because the banks perpetuated it. It would only be fraud if joe public were the perpetrator. All the IT depts in each bank just increased the rates on 20,000 accounts magically without instruction.
That's brilliant.  Technology, you can't beat it.


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## joe351980 (26 Oct 2017)

Was it not initially said to have been a cliche in the system. Sorry mebt to say, glitch in the system  (Heads not right here)


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