# Solicitors fee (solicitor is executor of will)



## simonshortt (16 Feb 2007)

Hello All,

I suspect I know the answer to this question already, but I hope someone can either confirm or deny it.

My father died late last year and his will appointed a solicitor as executor of the will.

It is a relatively straightforward will in that a mortgage free house and a few small value bank accounts are to be divided equally between my sister and myself. The estate is debt free.

So far, so good. The problem I have is twofold. 

Firstly, given the simplicity of the will (and this has been confirmed by the solicitor/executor), we do not wish to be forced to pay over up to 3%+VAT to the solicitor. It is my understanding that the executor is legally required to ensure that everything is in order. That is fine. What we both object to is the fact that he is using his own firm to carry out probate etc and charging us such a high percentage fee for the privilege. I have no objection to paying for his time / services; I do object to effectively being forced to do so.

Can we insist on either of the following (as after all, we will end up paying for the service):

A) Insist on having our own solicitor conducting the affairs of the estate and having the executor confirming everything is in order. 

B) Forcing the solicitor to agree to a mutually acceptable fixed price, rather than a percentage fee.

As I have stated before, we both feel that be have been maneuvered into a position where we both have no option to pay such high fees.

It is also worth nothing that the previous version of the will had both my sister and myself as executors. My father (82) brought the will to the current executor/solicitor for an update two years ago and that is when he appeared as named executor. This I find somewhat suspicious, but obviously there is no proof of anything.

Any thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

S


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## mangos (16 Feb 2007)

Dear S,

You are in a very difficult situation as the solicitor is the executor of your father's will.  He/she is obliged in this case to carry out your father's wishes but being the executor, they have enormous powers.  Your father's file belongs to the solicitor and you are only entitled to documents relating to you as a beneficiary such as title deeds for instance. The solicitor cannot be removed from this role save through the high court.  He/she is only obliged to provide you with a distribution account showing where your father's assets/expenses etc went.  He/she can also open up an executor's account to cover expenses, but I think is obliged to give you a copy of this.  Your father's bank accounts can be accessed by this solicitor.

As a starting point ask the solicitor to explain to you and the other beneficiaries what your entitlements are under the succession act, and find out his/her costs in writing.  Tell him/her you expect regular feedback as a beneficiary on the progress of administration of your father's estate.

My partner's mother died some years ago and the solicitor was the executor of her mother's will.  It was next to impossible to work with the solicitor and in the end my partner wrote to the law society who explained very clearly what my partner's rights were in this regard.  If you have difficulties with the solicitor you should write to the society and have them clarify your rights also.

I hope this is of some help
Mangos


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## pjq (17 Feb 2007)

Threaten him with Joe Duffy , Radio 1 . If you don't want to directly confront him , say that your sister wants to go to Joe but you would prefer not to be in the public eye.
Do not underestimate what you are dealing with , he has already taken advantage of an 82 yr old.
pjq


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## sherib (17 Feb 2007)

This is a very informative thread. It seems (unless I'm wrong) that the most important person to appoint is the Executor to a Will - apart from ensuring that the will is drawn up properly by a Solicitor. Is this correct? 

I was under the impression that there was no way out of having to pay a Solicitor a % plus VAT of the estate of a deceased which could be substantial and not very justifiable. From what I've read here that doesn't seem to be automatically the case. Does anyone know if I'm thinking along the right lines? Is is true that an Executor can also be a beneficiary? Thanks for any advice.


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## jpd (17 Feb 2007)

It is not necessary to appoint a solicitor as executor. However, in general, it will require the services of a solicitor to execute the will (ie transfer of land, submission of will to probate, submission to revenue,...) and for this they must be paid - but the fee should be negotiated before agreeing to hire the solicitor. Often a family member or members are named as executor(s).

An Executor can be a beneficiary. Only witnesses are barred from being beneficiaries.


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## pjq (17 Feb 2007)

So if the solicitor gets himself appointed as Executor ( you will be scr€w€d , unless you happen upon a "decent" lawyer ) if its someone else at least the legal fees can be negociated . 
pjq
PS-IMO ( I'm not a solicitor) you can take out probate and certainly the Revenue will deal with all citizens .


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## mangos (18 Feb 2007)

Just to further elaborate

When one makes a will, one should ensure the solicitor gives one an exact signed copy of the will.  Most solicitors will do this without asking and if the solicitor does not, I would be very concerned.  

To go back to the first thread relating to this issue.  When my partner's mother died, my partner found she was getting very little feedback from the executor solicitor without continously requesting it.  She took on another solicitor once probate was granted, to act for her.  However the two solicitors then corresponded with each other at a charge of E150 & vat for each letter.  The second solicitor also did not communicate effectively with her and she fired him.  Following a letter from the law society, my partner was told the executor solicitor was obliged to correspond with her when requested and once my partner underlined to the executor solicitor that she was aware of her right in this regard, the exec solicitor  clarified matters but only after a number of letters on my partner's behalf.

  Once probate was granted and the exec solicitor had completed her role as solicitor/executor there was a still a portion of the bill to be paid, which did not come out of the estate.  My partner was liable for this, but told the exec sol she would not pay the bill, until the former could give her a date/time for my partner to collect all documents to which she was entitled.  These included title deeds and a tax statement from the revenue.

The exec solicitor then had to comply and my partner got her documents.  She has now taken on a new solicitor to complete tasks which the exec solicitor was not obliged to do and is happy with the progress.

I really believe having seen what can happen and having spoken to other people about the issue of probate etc, that a solicitor should not be an executor of a will, I see no reason (unless there are tax/litigation issues), why probate cannot be granted within a year, I cannot understand why it takes ages for a solicitor to put someone's name on a property when a person inherits same (I know the land reg can be slow), but in some cases solicitors do not bother to give their client a progress report. 

I am also concerned, having tried to read the succession act, that after 5 years, it appears a beneficiary can do nothing if the estate still is not administered (except court perhaps).  *I am not sure if I have interpreted this point correctly.*

I think anyone experiencing difficulty with a solicitor on a general level should demand their file and leave.

Mangos


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## simonshortt (19 Feb 2007)

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Please do not get me wrong, I am not suggesting that we do not pay for the solicitor's time. My real objection is that in essence, we are being told that we must pay him a very large sun of money (+21% VAT) and when we question it, we get the stock response that i am entitled to charge this amount. 

My dad put his faith in the solicitor to 'do the right thing', especially since the executors of previous wills were always family members. I do not believe that the full implication of having the solicitor as executor was made clear at the time of will drafting. Obviously proving this is another matter.

I agree that negotiation of fees up front is necessary. However in our situation the fees are effectively being dictated to us. I feel that we are in a no-win situation. 

I will contact the law Society to see what they have to say. Might be interesting to see what they have to say, even if it is just a re-confirmation of the current situation.

One interesting point though. When I informed my own solicitor (not the one under discussion here) about the circumstances, he did remark that there was no schedule of fees attached to the will. I don't know whether or not that is standard practice, but it would help prevent any issues such as these arising.

When I get an update regarding the situation, I will post back. you never know, we might get a plesant surprise 

Thanks,

S


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