# The latest from Ryanair



## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

The following is from another website.

*MEMO from Ryanair Management to all Ryanair pilots*



> It appears that BALPA – the people who charge you money for doing nothing – are back. No surprise there. Having failed to win union recognition in Ryanair last time, they will be looking for another ballot this time, so that they can charge Ryanair pilots 1% of your salary each year in order to deliver you … nothing. Let me make Ryanair’s position on BALPA perfectly clear as follows;
> 
> 1. We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining BALPA, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organization he/she so chooses.
> 
> ...



The following response was on the same site.



> Warick Brady is the operations manager for Stansted, he is also in charge of keeping Micheals **** clean with his tongue.
> 
> After reading the memo sent out by Micheal (with Warricks name on it, so he will be the one in we will have to sue in court for intimidation when your promotion does not come when it is due) I am now of the opinion the it is essential to join BALPA.
> 
> ...



War is breaking out in Ryanair...standby for further developments.


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## ajapale (4 Aug 2004)

Asimov,
Please post the link so that the content can be verified.
ajapale


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

All in good time Ajapale, all in good time.


New development.

O'Leary called a meeting of all Stansted Pilots on July 7th at which he was to browbeat them over their intention to join BALPA. 

The guys were required to attend *on their own time*.

There was a turnout of about 20 who were pressganged into it.

Not only was the first meeting ignored, but subsequent sessions were also boycotted.

He has now sent the following threatening letter to all the guys in Stansted.



> RYANAIR
> Date: ……, 2004
> Dear XXXX (Insert Name)
> 
> ...



What a nice place to work!


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Please post the link so that the content can be verified.*

*All in good time Ajapale, all in good time.*

Eh...no offence Asimov, but how does anyone know that you're not just making all this up? I don't see why posting the link to the website is something that requires a drumroll?


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

Making it up? I've got better things to do with my time than invent yards of drivel.

Are you of the opinion that this is so outrageous that it *must* be made up?

I'd agree with you...only its for real!

I'll post the link when I'm ready.


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

*Are you of the opinion that this is so outrageous that it must be made up?*

No, I never said that. I don't know though do I...because you won't post the link :\ 

*I'll post the link when I'm ready.* 

I'm sorry, but I really have no idea why you want to keep this a secret from people? Is it for dramatic effect? If so...I'd be surprised if people cared all _that_ much. But I could be wrong.


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

Nothing to do with drama Piggy. Why do you always look for a conspiracy theory? Would you consider the possibility that the thread is on a secure website?

The thread is now 31 pages long and growing. The size of the thread is indicative of the pent up anger in that company.

Are there any lawyers reading this who could give an opinion on the legality of the threats contained in this letter and whether it would constitute bullying in the workplace?


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## ajapale (4 Aug 2004)

*Rule 14*

Asimov,



> Rule 14) Please respect copyright:
> If you quote from a publication or website, always acknowledge the source and provide a link.



For all we know you are part of the RyanAir publicity office or some class of a Troll.

Also, if you have a conflict of interest perhaps it would be best to declare it now?

ajapale


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

Sorry Asimov...I have to agree with Ajapale on this. 

*Would you consider the possibility that the thread is on a secure website?*
Then how can anyone on a *public* website like AAM verify that what you're saying is true or just pure made-up nonsense. I'm not saying it is mind you...because I can't verify either way, can I?


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

No need to work yourselves into a lather.

Heres your 'proof'.

[broken link removed]

I expect you'll need a few hours to read it all.
See you later.


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

What was the big deal about posting that? :\


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## ajapale (4 Aug 2004)

*Rule 14*

Thanks Asmimov,
I was beginning to think that you were a troll or worse part of the RyanAir publicity machine.



> Welcome to PPRuNe, The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork



ajapale


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

Finished reading it already Piggy?

The simple reason was that most people (like you) wouldn't be bothered enough to trawl through 31 pages, and/or wouldn't understand what was being said in most of the posts anyhow. 
Its too much information and a distraction from the issue. The extracts I posted are an accurate precis of the whole thread. 

But then, distractions are something you enjoy though...I've noticed. Try to contribute something useful, or stay away.


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## Asimov (4 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

Ajapale, how could you imagine the Ryanair publicity machine would benefit from having the public know about the impending war in their company?
It wouldn't do the share price a lot of good, would it.


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

*Finished reading it already Piggy?*
Eh...no! I think you misunderstand the point of posting a link coupled with qoutes. It's to verify that they *are* qoutes and not just stuff you made up yourself. That's all.

*The simple reason was that most people (like you) wouldn't be bothered enough to trawl through 31 pages, and/or wouldn't understand what was being said in most of the posts anyhow.* 
That's why you post the link *with* the posts in the first place. For verification.

*But then, distractions are something you enjoy though...I've noticed. Try to contribute something useful, or stay away.*
I see. Fascinating. You're getting personal. Nice. Care to expand on that?


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## piggy (4 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

*how could you imagine the Ryanair publicity machine would benefit from having the public know about the impending war in their company?*

No publicity is bad publicity (some might say).


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## ajapale (4 Aug 2004)

*Macho Posturing*



> how could you imagine the Ryanair publicity machine would benefit from having the public know about the impending war in their company?



Of course Ryanair benefit from reports that they are aggresively tackling trade unions.

Incidently have you read to O'Leary interview in last sunday's Sunday Times? You could ask the question how Ryanairs publicity machine benefits from.. attacking democraticlly elected ministers, disparaging people in wheel chairs, bigger breasts on the RyanAir logo and people from Westmeath (in gerneral). All these events are carefully crafted and balanced to optimise 'shareholder value'. You have to hand it to them theire unconventional approach is very effective.

So in answer to your question even if you are not part of the RyanAir publicity machine you are doing a great job of giving them free publicity.

ajapale


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## MOB (5 Aug 2004)

*Who is Asimov*

I offer no opinion on Ryanair (ok, I lied, I like them) but how can you call this a "Veiled threat"

"Those who are not willing to deal directly with the company will not be provided the superior benefits that Europe’s most successful airline brings from this positive engagement. "

It is not veiled at all.  It is perfectly clear, perfectly up front, perfectly honest.  No pussyfooting, no deliberate ambiguity so as to allow for future "wriggle room", just a plain statement of intent.  In my view, such clear communications are to be praised.


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*



> Of course Ryanair benefit from reports that they are aggresively tackling trade unions.



Ajapale there are no unions in Ryanair...yet.

What is actually happening is that O'Leary is "aggresively tackling" his once loyal (and happily un-unionised) workforce so hard that he is driving them into the arms of the unions.

"So what" you may say?

Well, maybe nothing, maybe everything! 

If the unions DO get a foothold in Ryanair it could change the situation there entirely, and not just there but in many other companies where O'Learys tactics are being copied.

MOB, you miss the point.
The threat is certainly veiled, in that it says just enough to get the threat across to the staff, but not explicitly enough to have Mr.Warwick Brady immediately faced with a cast iron prima fascie 'constructive dismissal' case in the event he ever carries it out. 
So I challenge your statement that suggests Ryanair management are "perfectly clear, perfectly up front, perfectly honest"...they are - on the contrary - slimy and weasley worded bullies.

Still, its great to get this out in the open. Even if it gives Ryanair some "advertising for free". They're welcome to it. Its the kind of advertising that is about to blow up in their face.


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*Piggy*

Oh, by the way Piggy (almost forgot you).

Do you EVER add anything to a thread? Besides dissertations on your wounded pride?

You could digress for Ireland.

Go away.


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## piggy (5 Aug 2004)

*Re: Piggy*

*Do you EVER add anything to a thread?*
Do you mean like having to ask someone over and over to provide something really simple and necessary to get them to provide a link to verify their quotes?

By the way, you might want to answer ajapale's question and let us know if there's a conflict of interest here? Or is that not important either?

*Still, its great to get this out in the open. Even if it gives Ryanair some "advertising for free". They're welcome to it. Its the kind of advertising that is about to blow up in their face.* 
Incidentally, I think you underestimate a company like Ryanair. I have little interest in what they do to be honest, having absolutely no links with any airline (bar as an occasional user of their service), but I don't think that anything is going to blow up in their faces. I could be wrong but that's my view.

I could've sworn you'd retired.


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## ohnonotThargagain (5 Aug 2004)

*War is imminent ?*

"War is breaking out in Ryanair...standby for further developments" is what Asimov tells us in the first post.

It turns out that the 31 pages on the pprune thread go back over a month. Seems that war is so imminent it has been bubbling under for a month and none of the papers have picked up on it.

It is an interesting discussion, but I don't think the airline is going to collapse just yet.

ohnonotThargagain


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*



> ...none of the papers have picked up on it.



Oh...well then, maybe I *am* making it all up!
Haven't I been a busy boy...31 pages of angst!

The main reason the papers *here* haven't picked up on it is this is mostly brewing in Stansted. The Irish papers are all in O'Learys back pocket anyhow so who'd expect reporting here at this stage...it'll take a strike to get their attention, and even then the editors will be looking to their advertising revenues.

That thread is now the longest on record on that very busy site. It is at the top of the page every day. And if you scroll down the front page you'll read several other negative threads about Ryanair...written by Ryanair employees.

You think this has just started in the last month? Sadly misguided. 
You sound like a Ryanair manager...ignore it and it might go away...or threaten them a bit and they'll buckle.
Not this time.  

No, Ryanair won't collapse if BALPA gets in...but O'Leary won't have the massive free hand he's had up to now, and he knows it. Why else does he even bother to make an issue of it, even less squeal like a stuck piggy at the very idea.
Perhaps it frightens him.

Maybe Mick understands the consequences better than you do.

I read yesterday that one of the stockbroking companies is rating Ryanair shares a HOLD. On the same day they dropped yet again. One wonders...are they ignoring the fact that O'Leary has labour problems about to break over his head? Maybe they aren't doing their research very well. Never trust a stockbroker, eh.

I'd reckon they're a SELL...you'll get a much better price after the fallout from the strike.


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## piggy (5 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

*You sound like a Ryanair manager...ignore it and it might go away...or threaten them a bit and they'll buckle.*
So anyone with a dissenting view from yours is a 'Ryanair manager' eh?

*I'd reckon they're a SELL...you'll get a much better price after the fallout from the strike.*
So without declaring your conflict of interest in this discussion you're advising people they should sell their holdings? Hilarious Tharg. Where's MAC in all this?

Sure maybe you're right and the strike will go ahead and we'll never hear anything about it because as you say, he has the papers in his back pocket!!


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## ILS28 (5 Aug 2004)

*PPRuNe*

Interesting thread.

That website PPRuNe is an amazing source of information and communications in the aviation world, and many stories have appeared there before being picked up by the press. Its a well known fact that journalists read it continuously, and seek insider information there. So much so that a warning has been placed at the bottom of every page reading as follows:



> As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. *In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.*



As to how large the traffic on the site is...all I can say is Brendan would love to be so lucky.
Here are some statistics:



> PPRuNe, otherwise known as the Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork started 7 years ago as a sideline hobby for founder and airline pilot Danny Fyne. What started as a group of dedicated UK and European pilots who would post a few hundred messages a month, has grown into the premier global forum where professional pilots and those in the airline industry communicate through over 1200 posts per day.
> 
> With over *60,000 registered members* out of nearly 200,000 readers globally, in as many countries as there are in the world, PPRuNe has been recognized and written about in many famous publications.
> 
> ...



I think they're a credible source.


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## MOB (5 Aug 2004)

*Re: PPRuNe*

I have never yet seen a Ryanair discussion on this forum in which one  side was convinced by the other to change his/her view. So I have to admit it is perhaps a little silly of me to dip my foor in here.  But, Asimov,  you say

"The threat is certainly veiled, in that it says just enough to get the threat across to the staff, but not explicitly enough to have Mr.Warwick Brady immediately faced with a cast iron prima fascie 'constructive dismissal' case "

Obviously if there is something insidious in the Ryanair statement which is "not explicit", it must be be implicit.   I am not being a smart alec:  I genuinely don's see any implied threat.  I do see an explicit one.


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## Tharg Consistency OAsimov (5 Aug 2004)

*Consistency is my middle name you know*

"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent"

"I think they're a credible source."

Consistency in a world gone mad.

"In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions"

Indeed they may.


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*Ryanair*

I think from now on I'll just call you Lurker. 
You have too many IDs.

Yep...a fake is easy to spot on PPRuNe. They drop in on the rare occasion, but get short shrift. You might be fooled...thats why the warning is there. For the easily misled.

This is another Piggy (Lurker) digression, but for the record...I'd put PPRuNe far above most newspapers as a source of information because I've seen news story after news story reported there before it ever hit the press. And when any such story finally (if ever) hits the press its usually reported so innacrately as to be hardly recogniseable. Lazy journos, waste of skin.
What is a newspaper anyhow, except a collection of second hand information filtered and misreported by hacks with other agendas? They don't MAKE the news...they are there simply to repeat it, and they generally can't do that right either.

I prefer to get the news first hand.
When BALPA call for negotiations with O'Leary over a new Ryanair pilot pay claim we'll see who got it right..FIRST.


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## piggy (5 Aug 2004)

*Re: Ryanair*

*I think from now on I'll just call you Lurker. 
You have too many IDs.

This is another Piggy (Lurker) digression*

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? Are you inferring that I'm posting in this thread under different unregistered user names? If so, *I'm not* and an AAM administrator can verify that I'm sure. I'd ask any administrator who reads this to please do so to clear the matter up...if that's allowed? Thanks.
For the record, on the rare occasion that I do use an unregistered username I'd pick something much more civilised...like, oh I don't know...ralph or something! 

So...it would look like there's _many_ people here debating an _opposing_ point to yours Asimov...yet you choose to turn on me all the time. I could've sworn you said you'd retired!!

You really are hilarious though. I see you're the same poster who regularly likes to dodge answering difficult questions that might scupper your point of view in a debate, like your _conflict of interest_ perhaps (or am I just being a broken down record?), choosing instead to try to denigrate the person who's asking them....ie me. Good to see your consistent in something anyway.


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## aha (5 Aug 2004)

*piggy in different aliases*

thought so on a few occasions


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## piggy (5 Aug 2004)

*Re: piggy in different aliases*

Yes aha...and I'm sure a lot of people do. Except I don't ever use different names _within the same thread_...or at least not in a debate anyway, when doing so would back my own point of view up.

The few times I do use them it's usually if I have a financial question and wish to remain (relatively) anonymous.


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## aha (5 Aug 2004)

*good answer*

fair enough, no prob with that
A


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*ALT*

Christ, does no one here see that Ryanair are a bunch of thuggish louts who'll just rip off the Irish people and unions at the drop of a hat ?

Are youse blind or what ?


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## waitAminute (5 Aug 2004)

*ryanair*

The people voted for Ryanair with their feet. 
I don't like O'leary, his manner or his loutish airline but I will use it.

I get sick of people complaining about it (they wanted it and with O'leary, what you see is what you get.)
wat


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## Asimov (5 Aug 2004)

*wat ? Twat more like it*

Moron


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## rainyday (6 Aug 2004)

*Re: wat ? Twat more like it*

Why is it that every Ryanair thread ends in this kind of abuse. Are you not capable of discussing the topic without getting personal.

Thread closed.


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