# Denied Boarding



## Maz2408 (29 Apr 2019)

Husband and I arrived at Belfast international airport this morning for a Ryaniar flight to Lanzarote.  Went through security where passport was checked and no issues.  Arrived at gate, passports and boarding passes checked no issues.  Just as boarding was about to commence, the Man who had let us through at the fast track gate with no issues, came to us and asked to see my Husbands passport again.

On inspection he asked my Husband is this your signature, my husband said yes to be told signature was in the wrong place on the passport, something we were completely unaware of in the 5 years he's been travelling with the passport. At this point we apologised for not noticing the error and assumed he'd ask my Husband to sign the passport in the correct place.

Ultimately he was denied boarding and we have had to return home, losing out on an all inclusive holiday.  

We were told by the member of staff that the passport was invalid as it had been inserted on the data page rather than the page above.  I myself have the older passport which was issued renewed the year before my husbands, where the signature is on the data page, we're assuming thats why he signed his passport on data page 5 years ago, his previous passport would have been signed on the data page.

The signature on my Husbands passport may be in the wrong place but it does not cover or impede in anyway a single letter or digit of the information printed on the data page.

Other than the signature inserted in the wrong place the passport is in perfect condition, no rips, no frays or damage of any kind, all data, photograph and cover in perfect order.
I understand it was a mistake on my husbands part regarding the signature, but I have been scouring the internet for several hours and cannot find anything to imply that the signature in anyway invalidates the passport.
As I say the passport is 5 years old, we have travelled through security in Ireland, spain and the UK numerous times with the passport many of those times with Ryanair and the fault has never once been drawn to our attention at check in or at any border control.  We even travelled on the same flight to Lanzarote with Ryanair 6 weeks ago with our Children and Grandchildren, no issues. 
How can I find out if Ryanair where correct in claiming the passport was invalid.


----------



## Fisherman (29 Apr 2019)

More Ruinair nonsense ..


----------



## Palerider (29 Apr 2019)

Suggest you have the passport office confirm its validity on the date you attempted to travel in writing of course.

If they confirm this for yo in writing then you should not have been stopped by an individual untrained in the fine art of identifying a bogus passport, then, see a solicitor.

If they confirm it is not valid then it's on you.


----------



## noproblem (29 Apr 2019)

The onus is on the passport holder to make sure everything is in order and it seems from what you've told us here that it wasn't. Why are you trying to blame Ryanair ? Just because you may have got off a few times doesn't validate it.


----------



## Maz2408 (29 Apr 2019)

@noproblem Why are you assuming by anything I wrote that I am trying to blame Ryanair.  I am asking if Ryanair are correct in stating the passport is invalid when the only fault is a signature in the wrong place, that does not impede any text or data on the page.  I posted as their seems to be no litrature available anywhere online stating that a signature in the wrong place invalidates a passport.  There are lots of examples of passports torn or water damaged or looking like they may have been tampered with invalidating the passport, in this case there were no signs of any damage or of it being suspected of being tampered with.


----------



## Sophrosyne (29 Apr 2019)

Maz2408 said:


> I posted as their seems to be no litrature available anywhere online stating that a signature in the wrong place invalidates a passport.



Were I in your position, I would have immediately contacted the passport office.


----------



## Maz2408 (29 Apr 2019)

Will contact them tomorrow.


----------



## RichInSpirit (29 Apr 2019)

Digging out my passport for a check. 
Sounds like a real power trip individual you encountered.


----------



## Leper (29 Apr 2019)

RichInSpirit said:


> Digging out my passport for a check.
> Sounds like a real power trip individual you encountered.



I'm thinking the same thing, is there something more sinister amiss?


----------



## cremeegg (29 Apr 2019)

Maz2408 said:


> We were told by the member of staff that the passport was invalid as it had been inserted on the data page rather than the page above.



Your passport may be different from mine but AFAIK my signature was taken from the application form and put on the Passport by the passport office.


----------



## Maz2408 (29 Apr 2019)

@cremegg I have the same passport as you.  My Husbands was a newer passport issued a year after mine, instructing him that he must sign the passport.  Until today we didn't have any idea he had signed in the wrong page, under his printed surname of the glossy page with photo and details, he just thought that was were you signed as it was that page that had his signature on on the previous passport which is the same as yours and mine.  This is an online image of the new passport, as I said he signed under the bold printed surname, the signature doesn't cross any passport information.


----------



## noproblem (29 Apr 2019)

Maz2408 said:


> @noproblem Why are you assuming by anything I wrote that I am trying to blame Ryanair.
> 
> Why would you apologise if you weren't wrong? You did write the following. "At this point we apologised for not noticing the error".


----------



## Luternau (29 Apr 2019)

Edit

I have the new passport and used it lots of times before I signed it. You should contact the passport office. As far as I am aware, an unsigned passport does not immediately invalidate it.


----------



## Buddyboy (30 Apr 2019)

Was the flight full?
It may have been an easy way to resolve an overbooked flight issue.


----------



## michaelm (30 Apr 2019)

AFAIK Ryanair do not overbook flights (unlike, for example, Delta).


----------



## Maz2408 (30 Apr 2019)

@noproblem: We apologised because until that moment we didn't realise there was any error in where the signature had been placed.  What has that got to do with you stating we are trying to blame Ryanair.  I'm blaming nobody, as you say the onus is on the passport holder, that's not in anyway difficult for me to accept.  The question I'm posing is on what basis did the signature being in the wrong place invalidate the passport when it did not impede in anyway on any of the official data on the page. I understand there could be a security issue if a passport is in very poor condition or the plastic coating is peeling on the official data page, but in this case there was no damage or anything that would raise any security issue in relation to the validity of the passport, the only issue was a signature in the wrong place?


----------



## Leo (30 Apr 2019)

It's common enough with official documents that any marking outside permitted areas is usually enough to have them declared void.


----------



## Maz2408 (30 Apr 2019)

Thanks Leo, I did assume that was the basis of Ryanairs decision.  I'm just shocked that there is no information available on the DFA website or anywhere else addressing issues relating to under what circumstances is your passport invalidated.  To be fair even if we had of known before yesterday that the signature was in the wrong place, we would never have believed this would lead to invalidation of the document.


----------



## noproblem (30 Apr 2019)

All About Passports | The Passport ...
passportindex.org


----------



## elcato (30 Apr 2019)

Specifically from noproblem's link above:

*Should I Sign My Passport?*
Yes. Passports typically have a signature page that tell you exactly where you need to sign it. Some passports may also include a digital copy of your signature on the biodata page. It is important that you only sign your passport in the appropriate space on the designated page. Marking up your passport in any other way will invalidate it.

QED.


----------



## Maz2408 (30 Apr 2019)

Thank you for all the responses.  The signature wiped off easy, pity we weren't given that option yesterday.


----------



## SparkRite (30 Apr 2019)

Maz2408 said:


> Thank you for all the responses.  The signature wiped off easy, pity we weren't given that option yesterday.



Yes indeed an awful pity.
Or closer to the mark, an awful pity you didn't think of wiping it off yesterday.


----------



## Maz2408 (30 Apr 2019)

SparkRite this is true, even I can see the funny side of it.


----------



## Thirsty (30 Apr 2019)

If thats a genuine passport image, remove it asap!


----------



## Maz2408 (1 May 2019)

It's a sample passport stock image


----------



## Bronte (1 May 2019)

So new passports require you to sign it when it arrives. Rather than it arrive pre signed as in the past. And there’s a specific page for this. Anyone have an image of what this page looks like?

My 2009 passport has a laminated page, but my signature, under the laminate is under the ‘date of deliverance’ where it says ‘signature’

Thank goodness I read this thread as I’ll be renewing later this year and will be renewing for my youngest child before July.  I heard there’s a backlog due to Brexit.


----------



## Bronte (1 May 2019)

Maz2408 said:


> SparkRite this is true, even I can see the funny side of it.


I think it’s ridiculous that your husband couldn’t have signed the passport there and then when that’s all you needed to do. Where’s the humanity there when faced with grandparents going on holiday. What difference would it have made to that staff member.


----------



## RedOnion (1 May 2019)

@Bronte 
Here's what it looks like https://mobile.twitter.com/passportirl/status/466975694963372032?lang=en

It changed a few years ago to allow for online passport applications, so they wouldn't have to capture applicants signature up front.


----------



## Bronte (1 May 2019)

Thanks Redonion. Here’s more on how it’s common for people to forget to sign it, and how this is not a big deal. Which I agree with, OP should have been allowed to sign at the gate, article also confirms the importance of signing. One assumes it’s not a valid legal passport without the signature.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/important-detail-newer-irish-passports-15093202

I must look at the children’s passports, not sure if any were issued since this change in 2013. And they’ve flown loads of times.


----------



## RedOnion (1 May 2019)

Bronte, I don't believe it was just lack of signature that was issue in this case, but the fact passport had been defaced by writing on the data page.


----------



## elcato (1 May 2019)

I have never had the signature page checked when boarding, just the page with all the details. I'm guessing here that there was a signature on that page which deemed the passport invalid and was clear for the checker to see. Have to say I don't know which passport I have as I've never signed it before afaik. I suppose it's best not to sign it and if someone point it out just sign it there and then.


----------



## Sophrosyne (1 May 2019)

I have one of the newer passports.

The data page is opposite the "signature" page so that both can be checked together.

As far as I can remember, the documentation accompanying the passport advised me to sign the passport as soon as I received it.


----------

