# Extension Woes



## SemperFi (14 Jan 2009)

Hi,

I need a bit of advice. 

I had a single storey extension appended to the side of my house 5 yrs ago. 

To all extents and purposes it looked like a good solid build. The foundations were bigger than needed to be apparently (I pointed out the ground was soft)

From day 1 it has had insulation problems. About 3 years later the builder finally came back to fix it, added insulation , but this has not resolved the issue. (I am fairly sure I now know what needs to be done to fix this but lets not dwell on that right now)

Now at 5 years it looks like it has settled away from the house (about 3/4 of an inch). Symptoms include some cracks here and there on internal plasterboard and a clear gap where it meets the house on one side and the drain pipe draining to the opposite end of the downpipe.

I am trying to get the builder back (fairly well established dublin based company) but he is avoiding me.

So I guess I need to know:

Do I have any obvious recourse to get him to fix either of the above issues.

Also If 3/4 of an inch settle after 5 years something to freak out about ? 

All replies appreciated.


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## sydthebeat (14 Jan 2009)

extensions will ALWAYS settle different than the original building, the trick is to do as much as possible to reduce this impact....

to be honest, i dont think you can go after the builder.... its not his responsibility to ensure the structural integrity of the build... its up to a structural engineer or archiect to certify this. Did you have one involved in the build?

all i could advise is to 
(a) fill the gaps with mortar and plaster over
(b) keep an eye out for more cracks, its possible the 3/4 inch in 5 years is the maximum movement...


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## SemperFi (14 Jan 2009)

sydthebeat - thanks very much for this. 

Yes a qualified architect was involved (provided by the builder but nevertheless a genuine about-to-retire one).

I am going to get it surveyed to see exactly what is going on and will let you know. Thanks a mill for that reply. Much appreciated.


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## sydthebeat (14 Jan 2009)

no problem.. if an architect was involved and provided certification (cert of complaince with building regs and planning permssion) for the build... its possible they may be liable if this turns into a major mess....


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## ted (14 Jan 2009)

sydthebeat said:


> to be honest, i dont think you can go after the builder.... its not his responsibility to ensure the structural integrity of the build... its up to a structural engineer or archiect to certify this.


 
Why would it not be the builder's responsibility to ensure structural integrity if it is possible that he didn't follow architect's specification and / or make adequate provision to ensure the extension tied in to the existing structure. Ultimtely the responsibility has to lie with the builder. The raft might have held together but if the ground beneath was not excavated properly then this is the builder's responsibility surely.


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## sydthebeat (14 Jan 2009)

ted said:


> sydthebeat said:
> 
> 
> > to be honest, i dont think you can go after the builder.... its not his responsibility to ensure the structural integrity of the build... its up to a structural engineer or archiect to certify this.
> ...



Nope... if the builder builds to the spec hes given he's fine...
if he doesnt build to the spec hes given, and the architect signs it off, the architect takes the responsibility.
If hes given no spec, he can basically do what he wants....


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## MCK111 (15 Jan 2009)

I disagree, see below:
TGD Part A
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1639,en.pdf
TGD Part L 2007
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,16557,en.pdf

The extension would have to be designed and built in accordance with the building regulations. Check out page 3 of TGD part A linked above, i.e. page relating to the actual regulations. 
It is the contractors/ builders responsibility to build in accordance with the regulations; the Architect has a responsibility to design in accordance with such. 
Ground Movement and Insulation Standards are mentioned in the regulations, and expanded upon in the TGDs
The Architect's certification could be (probably is) based on a visual inspection carried out on a certain date, i.e. superficial, or perhaps there was regular inspections? Either way he certainly wasn’t on site for the entire build. 
His responsibility would be at most only partial, if he had provided construction drawings with specification errors . Such misleading instructions do not alleviate the builder from his obligations to conform to the law. I.e. the architect’s instructions hold weight under the private contract, he cannot instruct a builder to break the law, or the contract becomes void – marred by illegality. 
If the builder himself had employed the architect, design/ build, to produce construction drawings, then should the architects design be at fault the builder would have a case against the architect, although this division of responsibility would probably have been sorted out with a collateral warranty.  The O.P. should still first approach the Builder, i.e. the person with whom he had the contract.
However if the house was sold, and subsequently it was discovered that it did not meet the regulations at the time it was built, then the Architect would be at fault (probably to a bank!) if he knowingly, or through negligence certified a building as conforming to regulations when it did not. Now the new owner can seek out the architect to remedy the situation.


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## SemperFi (15 Jan 2009)

I will keep the thread updated when I have more info, thanks for all of your considered responses to date. Getting a surveyor out soon.


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## MikeLavelle (15 Jan 2009)

Hi There!
All i would say on this is speak to you Solicitor and see what they think. Give them a call on the phone as make sure you point out you only want their opinion or else they may charge you. 
If my memory is correct the builder is liable for up to 5 years. so you need to move quick on this one. that might be why he is avoiding you. Plus in this day and age a bit of bad press could be extremely bad for that builder so i would seriously have a word with a legal person. 

Cheers, 

Mike Lavelle
LIFE Ireland


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## Dreamerb (15 Jan 2009)

MikeLavelle said:


> [...]make sure you point out you only want their opinion or else they may charge you.




Perhaps if we call our doctors and tell them we only want a diagnosis, they won't charge us?


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## SemperFi (15 Jan 2009)

MikeLavelle said:


> Hi There!
> All i would say on this is speak to you Solicitor and see what they think. Give them a call on the phone as make sure you point out you only want their opinion or else they may charge you.
> If my memory is correct the builder is liable for up to 5 years. so you need to move quick on this one. that might be why he is avoiding you. Plus in this day and age a bit of bad press could be extremely bad for that builder so i would seriously have a word with a legal person.
> 
> ...



Ooooh. Its very close to that date.....  I will find out - cheers. (edit : Checked - still a good few months short of 5 years)


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## SemperFi (23 Jan 2009)

Well had it surveyed and am fairly happy with the result. I wont divulge the survey details here but the surveyor said that @ worst case the part at risk is an outer wall with foundation under it and as such is protected by home insurance.


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