# I have no sympathy whatsoever with those "spoiled brat" taxi drivers.



## ajapale (9 Mar 2010)

I have no sympathy whatsoever with those "spoiled brat" taxi drivers.

Customers have very very long memories and I for one will never forget queuing for hours on St Stephens Green for taxis in the 80's and 90's. I commend the government ministers who burst up this cosy cartel.

I encourage the current taxi regulator not to cave in to their demands and to perhaps increase the number of taxis even more just to teach them a lesson.


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## Ancutza (9 Mar 2010)

Absolutely totally agree!


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## chlipps (9 Mar 2010)

indeed.. more taxis is more competition and hopefully reduce fares


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## Howitzer (9 Mar 2010)

chlipps said:


> indeed.. more taxis is more competition and hopefully reduce fares


Isn't this at the nub of their gripe? The market is open to competition but not on price.

I too remember the queues but in fairness todays taxi drivers weren't driving around back in the 80's/90's. Those guys made their money when the going was good and most likely got out. 

I almost always get the taxi on the way home now. The cost of nightlinks has contributed to that too.


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## Mpsox (10 Mar 2010)

If things are so bad for taxi drivers, why have so many people become taxi drivers in recent years?


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## Purple (10 Mar 2010)

Mpsox said:


> If things are so bad for taxi drivers, why have so many people become taxi drivers in recent years?



Because they have lost their other job.


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## shnaek (10 Mar 2010)

My wife works for a large American multinational. Four of their head guys arrived in Cork airport yesterday and had to ring the company to tell them they couldn't get taxi's. Some of the employees had to drive to the airport to pick them up. And we are supposed to be attracting jobs in to Ireland.


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## sunrock (10 Mar 2010)

In a way it is understanable as anyone can, as far as i am aware become a taxi driver in Dublin and Cork and claim their share of the pie.Of course jobs are scarce so many are tempted to try their luck.It is infinitely preferable to the situation that pertained back in the 80s and 90s.Can the taxi drivers get FIS or some form of welfare to supplement their earnings.
What are the regulations about becoming a taxi driver? Whats to prevent all types of conmen and criminal types becoming taxidrivers especially as they have no other job prospects.


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## Shawady (10 Mar 2010)

Purple said:


> Because they have lost their other job.


 
Or have taken it up as a second job. 
This was mentioned as an issue by one of the taxi guys this morning. Drivers that have full time jobs and then are going out cherry picking and working the busy nights.


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## Firefly (10 Mar 2010)

Shawady said:


> Or have taken it up as a second job.
> This was mentioned as an issue by one of the taxi guys this morning. Drivers that have full time jobs and then are going out cherry picking and working the busy nights.


 
Supply meeting demand then, don't they call this equilibrium?


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## thedaras (10 Mar 2010)

The taxi drivers held up the whole of O Connell street yesterday without any warning to the public.This did them no favors with the public.

That being said, If I hear one more taxi driver complain about making just 5e after ten hours work Ill scream!What they fail to mention is the 300e night.

The state of some of the cars is quite frankly an embarrassment!

In the likes of Spain ,Cyprus etc they have really well kept easily identifiable white taxis,but not here you could get a rust bucket on wheels or a Mercedes.

Everyone is in competition for work but we cannot control the number of applicants for the job.


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## Shawady (10 Mar 2010)

Firefly said:


> Supply meeting demand then, don't they call this equilibrium?


 
Yeah, but before regulation I know taxi drivers that would have worked just Friday and Saturday and made a good week's wages. Now they have to do a full week like most other people.
In saying that, one friend just does Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights and he still does ok.


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## Caveat (10 Mar 2010)

I haven't hired an 'official' taxi in years. Never will again if I can help it.


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## Purple (10 Mar 2010)

Caveat said:


> I haven't hired an 'official' taxi in years. Never will again if I can help it.



That's because you live in the middle of nowhere!


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## Yorrick (10 Mar 2010)

Welcome to the free market.

The Taxi drivers do have a legitimate grievance if unregistered Taxis are operating however they cannot be in a position to say how many people enter the market.
I know teachers and other occupations who have taxi plates and work weekends and summer months at it.
As long as they are correctly assessed for income tax and have a Tax Clearance Certificates they are free to do so.
Electricians, Plumbers etc regularly do nixers but you doint see the country being brought to a halt over it.


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## Caveat (10 Mar 2010)

Purple said:


> That's because you live in the middle of nowhere!


 
Well, yes, partly...

But it's still a true statement though


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## RonanC (10 Mar 2010)

Howitzer said:


> Isn't this at the nub of their gripe? The market is open to competition but not on price.


 
There is a maximun fare but Taxi Drivers are allowed to charge anything up to this maximum fare if they wish. They can offer discounts, they can advertise these discounts, but they dont because it is still a little cozy cartel for some (most) of them.

As for the "taxi drivers" on O'Connell Street, Dublin yesterday, who blocked another driver from working and shouted disgraceful things at him, including racist comments, while the Gardai stood on and looked at this happening (6.15pm ish). Shame on you all!


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## PyritePete (10 Mar 2010)

2 things - when taxi plates were exchanged over the years, they were ripped off by one of their own. Will anyone forget getting into a taxi in the 80's or 90's - stale smoke, driver smoking, manky cars etc.

While I have sympathy for people struggling to meet ends meet, they were architects of their own downfall.


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## Sherman (10 Mar 2010)

Taxi drivers are self-employed business people. The same rules of the market apply in the taxi 'profession' as they do in any other competitive segment - where barriers to entry are low, you have two options if you want to survive - provide a more efficient service cheaper, or charge more for a premium service. 

As in any other industry, if you choose not to do either of the above, or can't do either of the above quite as well as your competitors, you get driven out of the industry.


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## BoscoTalking (10 Mar 2010)

Yorrick said:


> Welcome to the free market.
> The Taxi drivers do have a legitimate grievance if unregistered Taxis are operating however they cannot be in a position to say how many people enter the market.


agreed


Yorrick said:


> I know teachers and other occupations who have taxi plates and work weekends and summer months at it.
> As long as they are correctly assessed for income tax and have a Tax Clearance Certificates they are free to do so.



But the health and safety / employment law should apply and make an even playing pitch.  I don;t want to hail a cab and have a driver that has racked up endless hours that nods off. a simple tachagraph would go some way to ironing that out.



Yorrick said:


> Electricians, Plumbers etc regularly do nixers but you doint see the country being brought to a halt over it


two wrongs never made  a right and all that...


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## Kine (10 Mar 2010)

I love how they refer to themselves as a "trade".


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## sunrock (10 Mar 2010)

Well as they say in london, they have the "knowledge".The black cab drivers there have to do exams so they have a very good knowledge of all the areas and routes...takes them about 4 years going around in a scooter.
There needs to be some regulation in Dublin etc for taxis. The drivers should have some basic training and testing, cars need to be of a certain standard.


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## Firefly (10 Mar 2010)

Kine said:


> I love how they refer to themselves as a "trade".


 
I've heard various spokesmen referring to 'everyone in the "profession"' which is hilarious


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## bren1916 (10 Mar 2010)

Why weren't those cars left sitting in the middle of O'Connell St. yesterday towed away and clamped?


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## levelpar (10 Mar 2010)

Is Mr. Ryanair moonlightling?


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## Latrade (10 Mar 2010)

at least the didn't head up to Newry for the day....


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## MANTO (10 Mar 2010)

Shawady said:


> Or have taken it up as a second job.
> This was mentioned as an issue by one of the taxi guys this morning. Drivers that have full time jobs and then are going out cherry picking and working the busy nights.


 
Tell this to many a person who cant get a taxi when there is a big rugby / football game playing. They want it every which way, well tough, get with the real world.


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## Randy (10 Mar 2010)

I'd love to know why the Gardai were facilitating this protest, I work on Fitzwilliam Square, but couldn't access pembroke street as it was closed last evening. 

1-why are taxis allowed to close major traffic routes
2-how come they can park their cars without paying the required fees and not get clamped


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## Complainer (10 Mar 2010)

ajapale said:


> I have no sympathy whatsoever with those "spoiled brat" taxi drivers.
> 
> Customers have very very long memories and I for one will never forget queuing for hours on St Stephens Green for taxis in the 80's and 90's. I commend the government ministers who burst up this cosy cartel.


While I don't have much sympathy either, I think your ire is misdirected. There were only 3,000 drivers in Dublin in the 80s and 90s, so most of today's drivers weren't driving back then. In fact, the smart drivers from the 80s and 90s sold their places for £80k in the years running up to deregulation, and left some other sucker with the big loan to pay off.


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## shnaek (10 Mar 2010)

Complainer said:


> While I don't have much sympathy either, I think your ire is misdirected. There were only 3,000 drivers in Dublin in the 80s and 90s, so most of today's drivers weren't driving back then. In fact, the smart drivers from the 80s and 90s sold their places for £80k in the years running up to deregulation, and left some other sucker with the big loan to pay off.



Some also bought bank shares in the heady days of the Celtic tiger. Some sold AIB shares at €24 a pop, leaving some other suckers with shares now worth €1.

I have some sympathy with anyone who has lost big money, but that's the way things are. We make choices and we have to take responsiblity for those choices in a free country. Caveat Emptor.


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## Capt. Beaky (10 Mar 2010)

sunrock said:


> Well as they say in london, they have the "knowledge".The black cab drivers there have to do exams so they have a very good knowledge of all the areas and routes...takes them about 4 years going around in a scooter.
> There needs to be some regulation in Dublin etc for taxis. The drivers should have some basic training and testing, cars need to be of a certain standard.


Taxis should be the same bright colour, have their rooftop lights on/off to show if they are for hire or not, be of minimum size and be in good nick. Too many cabs winging it with one headlight gone. In London any defects like this would have it parked up. A minimum float should be a must.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2010)

There is a huge oversupply at the moment in Dublin. This does cause severe problems for the everybody and not just taxis.


Taxis are still very expensive
There are severe traffic jams on Friday and Saturday nights
There are a lot of taxis forced to wait illegally outside pubs at night(if they wait at the rank, they won't get any fares)
There are a lot of taxis waiting in loading bays during the day
I would reduce the fares by 30%.
I would reduce the number of taxis. 

This would suit the customers as it would be a lot cheaper
This would suit the remaining taxi drivers as they would actually earn more money as they would be much busier. 

To reduce the number of taxis, I would bring in a very strict monitoring and points system. They would get special taxi points for illegal parking and massive points for overcharging - effectively a lifetime ban.

Every 6 months, just clear out the 5% with the highest accumulated points.

They would get positive points for special larger vehicles and disabled drivers vehicles. 

New entrants would still be allowed in but only if they have very good cars.


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## MANTO (11 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> New entrants would still be allowed in but only if they have very good cars.


 
& had a thorough background check / Passed a suitable exam (as said above about London drivers)


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## ajapale (11 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> There is a huge oversupply at the moment in Dublin. This does cause severe problems for the everybody and not just taxis.


If there is "huge oversupply" of taxis in Dublin at the moment could you estimate/quantify the level of over supply?

Apart from the taxi drivers (and I accept that they are not all boorish louts) what are the problems casused by the supposed "oversupply"?




Brendan said:


> Taxis are still very expensive


 The prices are set by the taxi regulator and do not relate to the normal supply/demand dynamic.



Brendan said:


> There are severe traffic jams on Friday and Saturday nights
> There are a lot of taxis forced to wait illegally outside pubs at night(if they wait at the rank, they won't get any fares)There are a lot of taxis waiting in loading bays during the day


 Provision of adequate ranks would solve this problem.




Brendan said:


> I would reduce the fares by 30%.
> I would reduce the number of taxis.


Maybe Im missing something but what problem will these actions address?



Brendan said:


> To reduce the number of taxis, I would bring in a very strict monitoring and points system. They would get special taxi points for illegal parking and massive points for overcharging - effectively a lifetime ban.
> 
> Every 6 months, just clear out the 5% with the highest accumulated points.
> 
> ...



Another unwanted quango consuming scarce resources !


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## Capt. Beaky (11 Mar 2010)

*TAXIIIIiiiiiiiiie! *


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Mar 2010)

ajapale said:


> Apart from the taxi drivers (and I accept that they are not all boorish louts) what are the problems casused by the supposed "oversupply"?



There are traffic jams in Dublin on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights caused by taxis continuously circling in a long snake. You really would have to see it to believe it. 

They park illegally - I don't really blame them. There is no space and there are no customers at the ranks. 




> Provision of adequate ranks would solve this problem.


There would  not be space for all the taxis.




> Maybe Im missing something but what problem will these actions address?



I would guess that taxis in Dublin are busy with fares around 20% of the time. It would be far better to have fewer taxis busy 50% of the time. They could then reduce their prices.


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## z107 (12 Mar 2010)

With any business, the natural course of action where there is oversupply is that people would give up being taxi drivers.
Taxi drivers can reduce prices or have better vehicles or do better deals to attract customers.

The last thing we need is yet more government intervention.


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## Firefly (12 Mar 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> The last thing we need is yet more government intervention.


 
I disagree. Government intervention is required for taxis..otherwise tourists would be ripped off at the airports where taxi drivers could charge what they like. I like what they have in NY. The max fare is something like 50 dollars to anywhere in Manhattan. 

I think the current price regulated by the regulator should become the max price and all taxis could charge less that this if they wanted. The price per mile should be easily displayed. This means that a taxi with an old car who can't/won't upgrade can charge a lower far to attract the business


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## Complainer (13 Mar 2010)

Firefly said:


> +1. A profession usually requires difficult examinations, coupled with defined experience requirements, controlled by an institute/body which also limits entrants, such as the Institute of Chartered Accountants etc


I think I've more respect for the taxi drivers!


Firefly said:


> I think the current price regulated by the regulator should become the max price and all taxis could charge less that this if they wanted. The price per mile should be easily displayed. This means that a taxi with an old car who can't/won't upgrade can charge a lower far to attract the business


Taxis can and do offer discounts. 
http://www.8202020.ie/


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## Bronte (15 Mar 2010)

Why does anything have to be done.  The law of supply and demand will mean those not making the money will have to give up. 

I too will never forget trying to get a taxi many moons ago in O' Connell street at night.  We had to wait two hours with no coats and it was freezing.  It was a long time before I'd go to Dublin for the weekend after that.  Surely nobody wants a return to that.

In relation to fares, there has to be regulation but it should be a max fare system and the taxi driver can charge anything under that if he wants to.  I much preferred it when there were hackney drivers with set prices from a to b so you always knew how much it would cost you and you didn't have to worry about getting a city tour and prices to match.


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## BONDGIRL (15 Mar 2010)

Well in my cicle of friends.. nowadays we usually drive to the location we are heading too (bar or club) and leave one car there.. then next day one of us drops that car owner to get her car.. saves us all about 10 euro each at start of nite. I know it doesnt seem like a lot but saves us going out in cold looking for one or ringing and waiting on one.. coming home I havent had a problem getting a cab in about 3 yrs


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Mar 2010)

Bronte said:


> Why does anything have to be done.  The law of supply and demand will mean those not making the money will have to give up.



In general, I agree with this philosophy but it should only be a guide and sometimes, exceptions have to be made. 

I was in Kehoe's on South Anne Street last night, and there were three taxis illegally parked and blocking any other cars trying to get by. 

Both sides of Merrion Row are blocked by taxis, turning a three lane road into one lane. 

Cars were parked and locked at the nearby taxi rank. 

So normal market forces do not apply. To survive, the taxis have to behave illegally. 

No one wants to return to the situation where there was a shortage, but we do need to remove the oversupply. It will result in lower fares and less traffic problems.


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## ajapale (17 Mar 2010)

Why not leave it up to the office of the taxi regulator who has to be commended for her offices work so far?

If there are problems with "snaking", and illegal activity by taxi drivers why not report the generalities to the taxi regulator for investigation and aciton? And why not report the specifics of illegality to the Gardai?

Why are a small number of (mostly Fianna Fail) politicians taking the side of these guys? and undermining the taxi regulators office at every hands turn?

In fairness the PD's they took the side of the consumer and faced down the actions of a minority of taxi drivers who are nothing more than boorish louts.

They are planning action tomorrow and I for one will be listening out for politicians who take the side of the consumer and support the office of the taxi regulator and the Gardai.

aj


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## Purple (17 Mar 2010)

If a taxi driver charges less than what's on the meter what happens when he/she does their tax return? Doesn't Revenue base their income on what's on the meter? If not then the whole area is still open to tax evasion.


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## Pique318 (18 Mar 2010)

Do you really think the meter is turned on for the majority of runs taking drunk people home ? I don't, and I reckon this is a major cash cow for taxi drivers, even more so in rural towns where weekend work is probably 90% of the business.


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## shnaek (18 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> No one wants to return to the situation where there was a shortage, but we do need to remove the oversupply. It will result in lower fares and less traffic problems.



How will it result in lower fares?


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## thedaras (18 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> In general, I agree with this philosophy but it should only be a guide and sometimes, exceptions have to be made. I was in Kehoe's on South Anne Street last night, and there were three taxis illegally parked and blocking any other cars trying to get by.
> 
> Both sides of Merrion Row are blocked by taxis, turning a three lane road into one lane.



If I were doing the same trying to get into a car park ,I would be very swiftly moved on.
This should not be allowed,and the gardai must carry out their duties .Imagine the situation if  buses did this..



> Cars were parked and locked at the nearby taxi rank.



Were these cars Taxis? As far as I know the driver must be present. 
If not ,once again where were the guards to enforce the law.




> So normal market forces do not apply. To survive, the taxis have to behave illegally.


I couldn't disagree with you more.The problem I have with this,is that it can be applied to any profession/trade.Where would this end?




> No one wants to return to the situation where there was a shortage, but we do need to remove the oversupply. It will result in lower fares and less traffic problems.


I agree with removing the oversupply,However it is up to the taxi drivers to make the decision as to whether they can continue in the business or not.Just like every other self employed person,whom cannot limit their competition.

I cannot see any situation where reducing supply would reduce fares.It would once again become a monopoly.

I hear taxi drivers complain of making 5 or 10 euro a night,if this is really the case,how come there are so many of them, How come they dont get a job in Mcdonalds where they would at least get 8/9 an HOUR,as opposed to a fiver a night.
How come they can pay the insurance,tax ,diesel, maintenance on a fiver a night?
Something just doesn't add up.


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## csirl (18 Mar 2010)

Taxi drivers are their own worst enemies at times. If the following was introduced, then you'd solve a lot of their issues:

1. All cars must carry at least 6 people.
2. All cars must be a particular colour.
3. All cars must be less than 7 years old.
4. Taxi cars can only be used for taxi business [eliminates the put a sign on the family car brigade]. A serious taxi driver would have no difficulty buying a dedicated vehicle. 
5. Permanently attached roof sign with "for hire" light.
6. All cars have Sat Nav.
7. Drivers must have valid Tax Clearance Certificate and no convictions for any public order, violence, sexual etc. type crimes.
8. No renting of taxi plates.


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## Purple (18 Mar 2010)

csirl said:


> Taxi drivers are their own worst enemies at times. If the following was introduced, then you'd solve a lot of their issues:
> 
> 1. All cars must carry at least 6 people.
> 2. All cars must be a particular colour.
> ...



Great idea.


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