# Motorway sliproad...who is supposed to yield?



## micamaca (17 Aug 2006)

I really don't know who is supposed to yield anymore...I find myself yielding if i'm on the sliproad merging onto the motorway, which I would think is right. But if sliproad ends what the hell are you supposed to do? It can be very busy at peak-times, some sliproads are very short and I often find I'm at the end of the sliproad and no-one is letting me in... What are the rules here? 

And today I was driving on M1, in the left lane.  A sliproad brought a van and two motorcycles down who coming to the end of sliproad did not slow down and were waiting to slip in to this left lane and here am I ....this time I moved into the right lane as there was just about room... but its ridiculous I'm yielding in both cases!  I do make room if I can but if I had not been able to move into the right lane, would they be entitled to drive in front of me....ie do I have to brake completely to let them in or do they ?  Someone please point me in some direction...this is one area that should be covered in driving test as then I might know!  It scares me!


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## Seagull (17 Aug 2006)

Traffic on the slip road is meant to yield. Drivers on the main road are meant to show some degree of consideration for traffic trying to join the road.


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## Eeek!!!! (17 Aug 2006)

From [broken link removed]

These slip roads are designed to give drivers the time and space to merge smoothly with traffic already using the Motorway and in particular the nearside land.

Your aim as a good driver should ensure that you do not cause other drivers to alter course or speed. 
As vehicle on the Motorway have priority and may not be able to move over, thereby allowing you to enter your skill with regard to early vision, good planning and acceleration sense should allow you to merge safely. 
Extremely heavy traffic or poor planning may cause you to stop in the acceleration lane.


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## micamaca (17 Aug 2006)

Grand thanks, well at least I know what is expected of me now. I honestly wasn't sure if am I supposed to stop...and its intimidating sometimes with rush hour traffic sitting behind me and I don't know what the right procedure is. At least if I know what I'm supposed to do, I can safely take time to merge and stop in sliproad if necessary. 

I'm afraid in these days of increasing traffic and delays, consideration for other drivers is at a minimum.  Had someone overtake me on a thick white line coming up to a roundabout, which was a new one on me!  And I wasn't driving slowly considering the roundabout up ahead!  People are very scary! 

The slip road I have to use is very short, its from M50 to M1 Northbound. It seems as soon as you come down the sliproad and can just about start seeing traffic in your side mirror, you're supposed to be entering the lane.  Other sliproads are a decent size, this one is a quarter of the size of others. And the traffic does be manic!  But thanks, at least I'm armed with the knowledge now.


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## Satanta (17 Aug 2006)

micamaca said:


> But thanks, at least I'm armed with the knowledge now.



hehe, still wouldn't always trust drivers in the slip road to obey this... 
nearly had an accident from exactly this scenario in front of me this morning when the driver before me on the slip (also on a mobile at the time) didn't yield (or time his entry, just had to slow down for a few seconds and could have entered perfectly safely) and only the quick reactions of the oncoming driver (a female Polo driver - if she's reading "Good work!") stopped a crash.


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## magunkey (17 Aug 2006)

The car on the motorway must yeild to oncoming traffic!


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## Eeek!!!! (17 Aug 2006)

magunkey said:


> The car on the motorway must yeild to oncoming traffic!


 
Can you provide a link to support that?


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## magunkey (18 Aug 2006)

Eeek!!!! said:


> Can you provide a link to support that?



As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway. The reason for the overtaking lane is to allow you to move in to it for the purpose of overtaking. If you find yourself stuck in the inside lane, unable to move safely into the overtaking lane, you MUST yeild to traffic joining your lane.

If you want links. I can post you any junction up to the west LINK if you like, where idiots think it's fair game to force joining traffic to stop rather than letting them filter in. 

We've finally managed to get a few motorways in this country but most of the idiots driving on them think they should either sit in the outside lane doing 70Khms or refuse to let other join at junctions.

Is just basic ignorance!


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## Berni (18 Aug 2006)

magunkey said:


> As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway. The reason for the overtaking lane is to allow you to move in to it for the purpose of overtaking. If you find yourself stuck in the inside lane, unable to move safely into the overtaking lane, you MUST yeild to traffic joining your lane.



The rules of the road would disagree with you. Traffic already on the motorway has priority.


> *Joining a Motorway* _When you join the motorway by way of a slip road you must give way to traffic already on the motorway_


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## John_DI (18 Aug 2006)

HI,

As Berni and Eeek!!!! have posted, traffic on the Motorway have priority.  However, they should show wee bit of courtesy and allow traffic to join.

In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road.  Overtaking lane would then be free for traffic on the Motorway to move over to allow merging traffic to join.

Here is the full section on Motorway driving in the proposed new Rules of the Road  http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html


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## sam78 (18 Aug 2006)

I had a truly horrible experience of the yield/not yield dilemma not long after I passed my test some years back. 

I was joining the M50 Southbound at the Liffy Valley junction and approaching the end of the slip road, the left motorway lane was completely clear and just as I was about to join, a white van in the overtaking lane decided he wanted to undertake the line of traffic ahead and barrelled up the left lane just as I was about to merge - also behind me on the slip road was a car tailgating me as I drove at approx 65MPH gaining speed - to make matters worse there was at the end of the slip lane a car was parked in the hard shoulder. 

As it all happened so quickly, it left me being faced with the prospect of having white van man or tailgating renault attaching himself to my rear bumper or come to an abrupt halt at the end of the slip road thanks to the car in the hard shoulder - in the end as the car tailgating me finally slowed down so I could decrease my speed while rapidly approaching the blocked hard shoulder as white van refusing to slow down his undertaking move, was able to slot in behind the white van - was not a very nice experience!! 

From that day on, have never expected even the slightest bit of courtesy from most road users of the M50!!


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## HighFlier (18 Aug 2006)

The real problem is the mickey mouse so called "motorways" in this country do not have proper slip roads. Mainly they are too short and angle of connection is too tight.

Whatever the rules of the road says, to help free flowing traffic one should move to the fast lane if it is safe to do so. Anyone used to driving on the continent will have experience of how this works.


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## Eeek!!!! (18 Aug 2006)

magunkey said:


> As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway. ...Is just basic ignorance!


 
From the draft revised version of the Rules of the Road for public consultation (the full text can be found here http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7604-0.pdf):

*Joining the motorway*
_*When you join the motorway by way of a slip road you must give way to traffic already on the motorway. *_Use the acceleration lane to build up your speed before merging onto the motorway. Motorists must obey road signs and road markings and must not drive on hatch markings before merging with traffic. Watch for a safe gap in the traffic in the left-hand lane and adjust your speed as you join the motorway in order to match, as near as possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane. Only move into one lane at a time. Stay in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before attempting to overtake. 

Again magunkey, can you provide a link to back up what you say?


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## Albany (18 Aug 2006)

I have driven on motorways in many countries outside Ireland and the norm there is for traffic to move over to the overtaking lane so merging cars can enter the motorway at the correct speed. It worked well and very rare to have to brake sharply like on the M50. However the volume of traffic on the M50 doesnt facilitiate this here. Neither does the attitude of many other drivers, who view it as an offence for others to move into the mis-named 'fast' lane to facilitate the slip road users and even more heinous to then proceed to drive at the speed limit until safe to move back into the left lane. I think the government should do a TV advert campaign for motorway use as noone is sure of how 'Irish' motorways work!


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## micamaca (18 Aug 2006)

Eeek!!!! said:


> From the draft revised version of the Rules of the Road for public consultation (the full text can be found here http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7604-0.pdf):
> 
> Watch for a safe gap in the traffic in the left-hand lane and adjust your speed as you join the motorway in order to match, as near as possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane.
> 
> ...


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## jdwex (18 Aug 2006)

magunkey said:


> The car on the motorway must yeild to oncoming traffic!


You have this wrong. Traffic on the motorway must show consideration, traffic on the slip road MUST yield. (Current rules)
[broken link removed]



> Joining the Motorway
> 
> When you join the motorway by way of a slip road you must give way to traffic already on the motorway. Watch for a safe gap in the traffic in the left-hand lane and adjust your speed as you join the motorway in order to match, as nearly as possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane. Stay in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before attempting to overtake.


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## euroDilbert (18 Aug 2006)

Magunkey - you are wrong about this. In addition to the other references :



> When you join the motorway by way of a slip road you must give way to traffic already on the motorway


from [broken link removed]


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## jdwex (18 Aug 2006)

John_DI said:


> In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road.  Overtaking lane would then be free for traffic on the Motorway to move over to allow merging traffic to join.



I disagree with you here insofar I don't think it should be legally forbidden. Unnecessary weaving causes "phantom jams" at motorway intersections
On another note, did anyone notice that  gantries on the Southern part of the M50 unnecessarily direct south bound traffic into the overtaking lane?
[broken link removed]


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## owlface (18 Aug 2006)

Having driven in a few countries in europe, most motorway junctions (with regard to joining slip roads) safely operate on a 'zip' style format, i.e get our speed up on the slip rd as much as possible to motorway traffic's speed and blend in safely.   With more dual carriageway and motorways in ireland with 3 lanes and more, iI recommend a pair of 'blind spot mirrors' which are small self adhiesive mini mirrors which show idiots undertaking and aso help you to keep an eye on those vehicles which hover behind your pillar out of sight.


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## Guest127 (18 Aug 2006)

jdwex; couldnt agree more. used the M11 for the first time few weeks back. Coming from M1 to M50 to M11. Unfamiliar with road and so was the motor behind me ( also LH reg) we both kept weaving in and out as I ( and probably the other driver) thought that I was going to be 'slipped' off the the left if I didnt enter the RH lane. Took me  about 3 junctions before I realised that the LH was perfectly ok to continue on in.


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## jdwex (18 Aug 2006)

cuchulainn said:


> jdwex; couldnt agree more. used the M11 for the first time few weeks back. Coming from M1 to M50 to M11. Unfamiliar with road and so was the motor behind me ( also LH reg) we both kept weaving in and out as I ( and probably the other driver) thought that I was going to be 'slipped' off the the left if I didnt enter the RH lane. Took me  about 3 junctions before I realised that the LH was perfectly ok to continue on in.




I sent an email to the NRA (National Roads Authority) asking for the rationale regarding the signage, but they never bothered replying. My theory is they got a graduate engineer who doesn't drive to design them.
jd


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## John_DI (19 Aug 2006)

Hi,

jdwex Wrote:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John_DI*
> _In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road. Overtaking lane would then be free for traffic on the Motorway to move over to allow merging traffic to join.
> _
> ...


I do not understand.  What "Weaving"

You are driving on a motorway approaching a slip road.  You see a vehicle on the slip road joining.  The overtaking lane is clear so you move over, give him your lane.  After he/she joins you then move back to the left hand lane.   Depending on your relative speeds  - either in front or behind.

However if there is traffic overtaking you at the slip road you will be unable to move over and make room, hence my point -  approaching a slip road the overtaking lane should be clear.

Institute Advanced Motoring Book


> As you approach and pass an entrance slip road, keep an eye on the traffic about to join the morotway.  If it is safe for you to move from the left hand lane to the center lane without worrying a driver coming up behind it is considerate to do so in order to make easier for the driver joining the motorway as well as to keep yourself out of trouble.


I did say "in an ideal world".  On Motorways in Ireland the overtaking lane is quite often more congested than the  left hand lane.


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## delgirl (19 Aug 2006)

Eeek!!!! said:


> Motorists must obey road signs and road markings *and must not drive on hatch markings before merging with traffic*.


 
That's great if motorists know what the hatch markings and closed white lines are for - unfortunately too many here in Ireland don't and it's incredibly dangerous.  

I've almost been hit on a few occasions by speeding cars joining the motorway on the slip road and driving across the hatch markings unexpectedly.

One of the places I've become very cautious with is where the M11 joins the M50 southbound.  Motorists don't seem to know what lane to get into and recklessly cut across the hatch markings and closed white lines.

Motorway driving should be included in the driving test as it is in places such as Germany and Switzerland.


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## jdwex (19 Aug 2006)

delgirl said:


> That's great if motorists know what the hatch markings and closed white lines are for - unfortunately too many here in Ireland don't and it's incredibly dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the places I've become very cautious with is where the M11 joins the M50 southbound.  .



People seem to panic when there are two merging lanes and they notice the right hand lane beginning to merge. They then shoot across the hatching/ solid white lines..


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## jdwex (19 Aug 2006)

John_DI said:


> Hi,
> 
> jdwex Wrote:
> 
> ...


Essentially cars moving from one lane to another tends to cause congestion on motor ways. Have you never come across those strange tailbacks on motorways that seem to occurr for no reason?
I've never come across a motorway anywhere in the world where overtaking would be forbidden near intersections.
A lot of Irish drivers seem to trundle dow the slip road at 70-80 km/hr without trying to match the speed of the motorway traffic.
jd


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## John_DI (19 Aug 2006)

Hi

jdwex Wrote:

 	Q





> uote:
> Originally Posted by *John_DI*
> _Hi,
> 
> ...




Thank you for the above explanation, but I would not call moving over to accomodate someone joining the motorway "weaving".   Neither does the Institute of Advanced Motorists who say you should move over. (Quoted in my last post).  

Also,  Roadcraft,  The Police Drivers Handbook say to move to the lane on your right or "make slight adjustments to your speed".  

I use both methods, but of the two much prefer to move over - IF the lane is clear. 

I think your intentions are much clearer to the person joining if you indicate and move out to the overtaking lane.  They see the indicator and the empty lane and enter.  Slow down, or as they say "Slight adjustment" is not as obvious.  And you have more freedom/options in the overtaking lane.

jdwex Wrote:


> I've never come across a motorway anywhere in the world where overtaking would be forbidden near intersections


.

I never used the word forbidden. What I said was



> In an ideal world, nobody should overtake approaching a slip road.



Just meant that people should use common sense leave the overtaking lane clear at joining junctions.

Rgds


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## sonnyikea (21 Aug 2006)

magunkey said:


> As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway.


 
With all due respect, you seem to know a lot about cars from your other posts, but this is a basic misunderstanding of the rules of the road. If this is an indication of the confusion that abounds in drivers in this country it is no wonder the death rate is the way it.

To suggest that a car travelling at 120kph gives way to a car travelling at any speed between 0 - 120kph is absurd. I only hope you meant that the motorway car should move over to allow the slip road driver on to the motorway if they can do so safely. The OP was alluding to the what the law is when the motorway is congested and it is impossible for the left lane driver on the motorway to pull into the outside lane.


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## jdwex (21 Aug 2006)

jdwex said:


> I sent an email to the NRA (National Roads Authority) asking for the rationale regarding the signage, but they never bothered replying. My theory is they got a graduate engineer who doesn't drive to design them.
> jd



I got a reply! Looks like those gantries will be gone..



			
				NRA said:
			
		

> Dear Mr. jdwex,
> 
> Thank you for your email regarding gantry signs on the M50.
> 
> ...


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## zag (21 Aug 2006)

Sigh.

Why does the NRA think it has to re-invent the wheel every time it goes to do something ?  I could be wrong, but I thought there was pretty much a global standard when it came to motorway signage, they don't need to employ the nice people from market research to see what people think of their signs, they need to employ roads professionals to do what the rest of the world is doing when it comes to these signs.

It's a bit like the way Ireland is ahead of the curve (or so the NRA thinks) when it comes to motorway rest areas.  The rest of the world has them on motorways (and to a particular standard) and doesn't just rename the local filling station as a rest area, regardless of opening hours, standards, ability to take HGVs, etc . . . 

Motorway signs are supposed to be clear and unambiguous because the people reading them are likely to be zooming by at 120km/h and shouldn't have to take their mind off their driving to try to second guess what the NRA really meant when they erected the sign saying this lane leaves the motorway ahead.

z


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## Albany (6 Sep 2006)

cuchulainn said:


> Coming from M1 to M50 to M11. Unfamiliar with road and so was the motor behind me ( also LH reg) we both kept weaving in and out as I ( and probably the other driver) thought that I was going to be 'slipped' off the the left if I didnt enter the RH lane. Took me about 3 junctions before I realised that the LH was perfectly ok to continue on in.


 
Maybe you should let the NRA know - I completely agree with you - the overhead signs are very misleading!


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## RS2K (7 Sep 2006)

magunkey said:


> As a motorist you are obliged AT ALL TIMES to give way to traffic joining a motorway. The reason for the overtaking lane is to allow you to move in to it for the purpose of overtaking. If you find yourself stuck in the inside lane, unable to move safely into the overtaking lane, you MUST yeild to traffic joining your lane....
> 
> Is just basic ignorance!



With respect that's rubbish.

When you are joining a motorway from a slip road you should indicate to express your intention to do so. Traffic already on the motorway may perhaps move over one lane to help you or perhaps slow down. If traffic is heavy and slow this may not be possible. The reason for acceleration lanes is to enable the traffic joining ther motorway to match speed with the flow of traffic.

Buy a copy of How to be an Advanced driver from the IAM. Details are on page 64.


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## RS2K (7 Sep 2006)

From the Highway Code (UK)

*Driving on the motorway*

*Joining the motorway* *233:* When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should 

give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.


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## lisam (7 Sep 2006)

I hope i dont come acroos any of ye who dont know that the cars on the motorway have priority when I'm on the M50 tomorrow!!


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