# Fixed penalty charge - wrong name



## jim (24 Aug 2018)

i got a fixed peno charge 2 mnths ago for a minor driving offence. However, the notice I received is in the wrong name. They got my address correct and my number plate but my name is wrong. Its close to my name but isnt my name!

I ignored the charge and today a garda hand delivered another one with a slightly increased fine from €80 to €120. It says i can go to court in a month and challange it or i can pay the €120. The hand delivered charge is still in the wrong name.

What happens if i just continue to do nothing on this and ignore it?


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## mathepac (25 Aug 2018)

Fáilte romhat go cloud cuckoo land. It's up to you to go to court and get the schmozzle sorted one way or another. You'll eventaully have a summons to court hand-delivered. Why accept the hand-delivered notice from the Guard if it's not for you?


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## jim (25 Aug 2018)

My partner signed for it when i was at work. 

What if i just do nothing? Its not in my name.


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## Zenith63 (25 Aug 2018)

Did you commit the offence?


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## Cervelo (25 Aug 2018)

My advise would be to pay the fine now for two reasons, one you obviously committed the offence or somebody using your vehicle did and two if you go to court and loose you will then have a motor conviction on record which you will have to inform your insurance company about and may affect future motor insurance premiums


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## jim (25 Aug 2018)

Oh holy god - of course i committed the offence. Im guilty here. Im guilty as hell. I deserve the fine and i should.pay the fine. I prob even deserve to go to gaol for many many years. I drove all over that bus lane so I did.

This I know. Im not looking for advice or for the moralistic guidance on what to do. I know what i should do and i know what i will do.

Im looking for an answer to a simple question hopefully from a knowledgeable individual 

Given that the name on the notice is not me, if I were to do nothing in this.scenario, what would the likely outcome be?

A) i go to court and its struck off on a technicality.
B) life in prison
C) the gardai woukd eventually figure out their mistake get my name right and re issue it.
D) i go to court and judge calls out my nonsense re name being wrong amd fines the crap out of me.
E) some other crazy outcome that I cant even imagine


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## JohnJay (25 Aug 2018)

my guess: d)


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## jim (25 Aug 2018)

Hoping to hear from someone with experience in relation to this kind of thing. This is a faux paux on the part of the gardai that I think renders the notice null and void. Am i wrong?


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## Cervelo (25 Aug 2018)

Well why don't you just ignore the fine go to court and report back to us with your new found enlightenment


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## jim (25 Aug 2018)

Just looking for answer to the question above Cervelo, thats all


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## noproblem (25 Aug 2018)

Jim,
A friend was pulled for drink driving, got served with the summons with the surname Sam on it instead of Simon, went to court and the charge was struck out. Very slightly over the limit, but over it all the same. Don't want to give much more detail for obvious reasons


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## Romulan (25 Aug 2018)

noproblem said:


> Jim,
> A friend was pulled for drink driving, got served with the summons with the surname Sam on it instead of Simon, went to court and the charge was struck out. Very slightly over the limit, but over it all the same. Don't want to give much more detail for obvious reasons



Similar experience some time ago, correct day and time but wrong offence and location on the notice.
Went to court on the day, found the guard and told him I would be pleading not guilty.

He struck out the charge on the spot.


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## SparkRite (25 Aug 2018)

At the end of the day it will come down to the presiding judge. It will depend on whether he/she wishes to
amend the charge sheet/summons, which they are empowered to do. If the judge is in bad form or indeed
the "wrong" name is just a small mispelling/typo then it may not go in your favour.
However if the judge is sick and tired of the Gardai not doing their job correctly then it may well be struck out.
The above scenario from @Romulan is a way more serious compilation of errors than a simple erroneous name.

What it boils down to is, if you are a gambler, and wish to take your chances in court, personally I wouldn't as I
feel that if it goes against you, you will end up with increased fine and points which may culminate in you paying
a lot more than €120 over the next three years.

Just my two pennys worth........


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## Palerider (25 Aug 2018)

I have been to Court as an observer, what I experienced in cases like this where there was some anomaly or other was the Judge asking if it was your car and you driving when offence committed, in other words do you accept it was you that committed the offence answer was yes in most cases, Judge then gave benefit of probation act, if answered no the case was put back for a full hearing.


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## SparkRite (25 Aug 2018)

@Palerider , yep, its all down to the judge and what humour they are in on the day.
Strange one though giving the benefit of the probation act. I never came across that in regards to a motoring offence,
didn't know there was room for discretion or movement as there are set down fines/points.

While many summary offences dealt with in District courts benefit from the POA it does mean that the judge believes 
the alleged offences to be proven and therefore the accused to be guilty of same.

@noproblem Your friend was very lucky to have such a serious offence to be struck out on that basis. However the court would not
know the intoxiliser reading until after conviction and before sentencing. So whether he/she was just over the limit or was as "pissed as a judge" (as the saying goes, pun intended) had no bearing on the end result.


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## noproblem (25 Aug 2018)

@noproblem Your friend was very lucky to have such a serious offence to be struck out on that basis. However the court would not
know the intoxiliser reading until after conviction and before sentencing. So whether he/she was just over the limit or was as "pissed as a judge" (as the saying goes, pun intended) had no bearing on the end result.[/QUOTE]

Funny you should say that because the Super (who he knew) saw him in the court and asked him what he was up for, he was told,  was also told of the name on the summons and he said the case would be struck out. Serious offence or not the Super had no doubt and was right.


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## john luc (25 Aug 2018)

go to court. You have a clear chance this will be waived as you will state that this is not your summons. Bring I D with you showing your correct name. If you don't go to court when it comes up you will be fined as default.


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## peemac (30 Aug 2018)

What district is it?

If Naas, pay the fine tomorrow.  Do not risk Desmond Zaiden - he suffers no fools and will throw the book at you if it's only a slight error and that all other details are correct. 

One case last year someone claimed he did not get the summons - Zaiden asked who lived in the house. Wife, and two adult kids. Zaiden wanted all three to come in a swear that they did not take in the summons.

Not sure how it ended.


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## noproblem (30 Aug 2018)

I very much doubt that having to swear in court means anything anymore.


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## jim (31 Aug 2018)

peemac said:


> What district is it?
> 
> If Naas, pay the fine tomorrow.  Do not risk Desmond Zaiden - he suffers no fools and will throw the book at you if it's only a slight error and that all other details are correct.
> 
> ...



The point is my name is incorrect. The summons is not in my name. And because of this, theoretically, I never received the initial Fixed Penalty Charge. I only received the summons because it was hand delivered by a Garda.

Out of courtesy I will go to court, bring my passport and explain to the judge that I have taken the day off work to come here in spite of this summons not being in my name and me not having ever received the initial FPC.

If asked did I do the deed I will of course say I did (although I think it was a farcical decision by the Garda but that's another matter and I don't want to debate that here). My car reg is on the summons and my address is correct.

Again, the point is, whilst I did commit the offence, I never received the initial FPC, due to my name being incorrect, its still incorrect but here I am. I have it on good authority that itll be struck out.

Its in Blanchardstown court.


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## dereko1969 (31 Aug 2018)

Why did your partner accept it if it was in the wrong name? It must be close enough.
You did receive an initial FPC albeit with the incorrect name, why did you open it if the wrong name was on it? Why did you open the second notice if it had the wrong name on it?
Why are you appearing in court having read a notice addressed to someone else?
The Garda have way more than their fair share of incompetent idiots.
Whilst the name is wrong, 2 of the 3 other identifying markers are correct (licence plate and address), you are showing up. I would hope and think that the Judge will find against you.


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## TheBigShort (31 Aug 2018)

jim said:


> Hoping to hear from someone with experience in relation to this kind of thing. This is a faux paux on the part of the gardai that I think renders the notice null and void. Am i wrong?



Id say you are. 
The judge will probably ask you did you commit the offence. If you say yes, then the misspelling of your name becomes incidental to the case. 
If plead not guilty, then you may have a case - but would probably need a solicitor or barrister to present your case on your behalf. 
Which will probably cost a lot more than the fine, for the offence which you did commit.


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## jim (31 Aug 2018)

dereko1969 said:


> Why did your partner accept it if it was in the wrong name?
> 
> It must be close enough.
> 
> ...




1. you'll have to ask her  she shouldnt have I suppose.
2. it is but its still not my name. this stuff is black or white
3. because i was curious. from a legal perspective i didn't open it/never received it/ it was town in the garbage can
4. because it was hand delivered by a garda and it was intended for me.
5. nail on head mon amis. as mentioned have it on good authority that this is the correct course of action for me in this instance otherwise the notice might eventually be amended into my name....but this is the crux of my question!
6. maybe, maybe
7. again, this is the crux of my query and I have it on good authority that it will be struck out by 90% of judge as they have done time and again in the past, on a technicality...

ultimately its hard to know what to do here...pay €120 and forget about it....go to court and save myself €120 which seems to be the likely outcome...go to court and suffer an increased fine which seems to be an unlikely outcome.


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## jim (31 Aug 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Id say you are.
> The judge will probably ask you did you commit the offence. If you say yes, then the misspelling of your name becomes incidental to the case.
> If plead not guilty, then you may have a case - but would probably need a solicitor or barrister to present your case on your behalf.
> Which will probably cost a lot more than the fine, for the offence which you did commit.




apparently the judge generally strikes this kind of stuff out as its technically not me even though iv been good enough to go to court on the day and admit I did commit the offense.

as things stand im inclined to rock up on the day with passport and point to the fact that the summons is not addressed to me and because of that I never received initial FPC.


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## TheBigShort (31 Aug 2018)

jim said:


> apparently the judge generally strikes this kind of stuff out as its technically not me even though iv been good enough to go to court on the day and admit I did commit the offense.



I have re-read your first post. I mistook the spelling to be on the summons instead of FPC.
Quite possible the summons could be struck out, but then again an inquisitive judge might impose the penalty leaving you to appeal to a higher court. 
Let us know how you get on.


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## noproblem (31 Aug 2018)

Why are you going to court at all? As for the judge asking if you committed the offence on the summons, the answer has to be a big NO. You did not commit the offence on that summons because it's not you on the summons. Did you commit a similar offence? That might be true , but might be also true of several people in the courtroom and I doubt the judge is going to find everyone guilty of the guards mistake.


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## Cervelo (31 Aug 2018)

Question, Where did the name on the FPC come from ??
Were you stopped by a Garda and asked or did the FPC just arrive in the post


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## mathepac (31 Aug 2018)

But you said above you received the original fixed penalty notice and had time to query it then. What has changed, theoretically?


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## SparkRite (31 Aug 2018)

This whole scenario can be pulled asunder over and over here, but no definitive answer will ever be arrived at.

The OP has a choice either pay the fine and forget about it or take their chance in court, simple as.......

As I said IT IS DOWN TO THE JUDGE on the day and how he/she feels about mistakes such as this.

At the end of the day, everybody knows, including the OP, that the FPC(s) and the summons was directed to them and them alone.


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## cremeegg (31 Aug 2018)

jim said:


> What if i just do nothing? Its not in my name.



To misquote the great Brendan Behan, They can fine me under the wrong name, they can summons me under the wrong name, they can jail me under the wrong name.

Seemed to work out better for Behan.


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## jim (31 Aug 2018)

Thanks everyone for your tuppence worth. I dont want to drag this thread out much longer.



Cervelo said:


> Question, Where did the name on the FPC come from ??
> Were you stopped by a Garda and asked or did the FPC just arrive in the post



Just to clarify, the name on the FPC and the summons is the same and is not me. A garda obv spoke to me on the day of the offense and had my driving licence. Bonkers that he still got my name wrong.

Very undecided what to do now....pay fine, go to court and take my chances, dont do anything. Im leaning towards going to court and hope the judge strikes it out....ill be sure to update this after. Its not for 7 weeks though.


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## Gordon Gekko (31 Aug 2018)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all that happens is that either the OP or the Garda informs the judge that there’s a minor error with the name on the summons/speeding ticket, and then the judge instructs the clerk of the court to amend it and things kick-on.


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## jim (31 Aug 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all that happens is that either the OP or the Garda informs the judge that there’s a minor error with the name on the summons/speeding ticket, and then the judge instructs the clerk of the court to amend it and things kick-on.



Sounds plausible Gordon and how it prob should go in fairness but what are you basing this on? Experience or guesswork? I am reliably informed that this “minor error” is in fact significant enough for the judge to strike out the summons.....on the basis that it isnt addressed to me.


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## peemac (31 Aug 2018)

You're not saying how wrong the name is which suggests it's  not hugely different to your name. 

You might get a judge on a good day, you might not. 

A day in court over €80 - especially as you accept it was you. 


I wouldn't take that risk


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## Gordon Gekko (31 Aug 2018)

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c60...d77fd0a1ce7bec2880256d2b0046a066?OpenDocument


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## Purple (13 Sep 2018)

You are guilty of the offence. Have the balls, backbone and integrity to pay the fine without wasting the time of the Court and the Gardai and costing your fellow citizens money.
It boils down to one thing; have you got any integrity? 
If you then pay the fine. 
If no then carry on with your currently proposed court appearance.


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## noproblem (13 Sep 2018)

Your opinion Purple, but life don't work like that Hombre and I wouldn't be too quick to attack the mans character either. Mistakes sometimes work in your favour and when they do it's good. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## john luc (14 Sep 2018)

Mr Purple sir you should be careful when you stand up to straighten your back as being so stiff and righteous you might injure yourself


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## dereko1969 (14 Sep 2018)

No, purple is right. This is just an example of the kind of thing that leads to drink drivers getting away with stuff and has created a mini-industry for solicitors.


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## T McGibney (14 Sep 2018)

dereko1969 said:


> No, purple is right. This is just an example of the kind of thing that leads to drink drivers getting away with stuff and has created a mini-industry for solicitors.


The penalties for moderate drink driving are now so harsh and disproportionate (with automatic lengthy driving bans kicking in at an alcohol limit 37.5% lower than that applying in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, with no discernible difference in road accident rates between jurisdiction) that those accused of such offences will hardly be shy in asserting their rights to contest such charges when they are raised against them.

It's not at all disreputable nor dishonourable for citizens to assert these rights.


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## jim (14 Sep 2018)

Lads i drove in a bus lane (far from drink driving) and tbh it was harsh but im not debating that here. 

To reiterate, My only quandry here is whether or not the summons and original fixed penalty are void due to my name not being correct on it. And not just slightly mispelled its a different name.

Im still unsure what to do. Iv tried phoning the garda in question, left a msg, but he hasnt yet come back to me.


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## john luc (15 Sep 2018)

challenge it as it is not in your name


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## noproblem (15 Sep 2018)

At this stage you've got every type of advice available on which to make up your mind. Do that and come back and tell us when the case is kicked to touch before we all start giving out to each other.


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## jim (14 Oct 2018)

After a month of trying to track down and chase the garda that issued the charge/summons. I finally got an enail response from them this morning. 


"It seems there is an error in the summons.  The case will be struck out and not re-entered.  You need not attend as you are not the person named in the summons"


Mission accomplished.


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## Cervelo (14 Oct 2018)

Wow, well done Jim I didn't think it would be that easy to get it struck out
On a side note the other day I got stopped for speeding, first time in over 20 years doing 80 mph in a 55 zone luckily for me I'm in America at the moment and the state trooper only gave me a yellow written warning, no fine no lecture just "Enjoy the rest of your trip".


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## noproblem (14 Oct 2018)

jim said:


> After a month of trying to track down and chase the garda that issued the charge/summons. I finally got an enail response from them this morning.
> 
> 
> "It seems there is an error in the summons.  The case will be struck out and not re-entered.  You need not attend as you are not the person named in the summons"
> ...



As I thought. There was never going to be any other outcome.


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## jim (14 Oct 2018)

lessons learned:

1. It was difficult to get in touch with and get a response from the issuing Garda.
2. Any Garda I did speak to, in trying to reach the issuing Garda, was difficult to communicate with!
3. if there is a material error on the summons or FCN then its will be struck out. Contact the issuing Garda rather than going to court and they will effectively strike it out at that stage.
4. I acknowledge that I got lucky - I committed the offence but Garda incompetence got me off.


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## DirectDevil (17 Oct 2018)

jim said:


> After a month of trying to track down and chase the garda that issued the charge/summons. I finally got an enail response from them this morning.
> 
> 
> "It seems there is an error in the summons.  The case will be struck out and not re-entered.  You need not attend as you are not the person named in the summons"
> ...



Put down that Champagne bottle ! There is one potential wrinkle.

What has been cited to you is strictly technically correct in legal speak and Garda speak.

However, if there is time to issue another summons against you - with all particulars correctly stated - you are still at risk of getting one.

*The core point is the date of the alleged offence.*
From the date of the alleged offence there is a six months time limit for summary cases like this.
The six months period starts from the date of the alleged offence.
It is the period within which a Garda must apply to the summons office for a summons.
Once that time limit has been complied with you can be served even after six months from date of alleged offence.

P.S. I don't know the time limit within which they are obliged to send the FCN. If they are out of time on that you will probably be alright.


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## noproblem (17 Oct 2018)

Why don't you read the email response he got back from the Gardaí and I don't remember him saying anything about a champagne celebration either?

"The case will be struck out and not re-entered".


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## DirectDevil (19 Oct 2018)

noproblem said:


> Why don't you read the email response he got back from the Gardaí and I don't remember him saying anything about a champagne celebration either?
> 
> "The case will be struck out and not re-entered".



Careful now. I did read it.

The summons will be struck out and not re-entered.
That means that the summons issued against the entity shown on it will be struck out.
That entity is *not* the OP.
Therefore, there is currently no case against the OP to be struck out.

OP correctly told he does not need to come to court either as he is *not* the person named in the summons.

My only point is that if the Gardaí are still within the time to do so they could yet issue a FCN against OP in his correct name.
Obviously, if that time limit has expired OP can open the metaphorical bottle


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## noproblem (19 Oct 2018)

Good lad, you're learning.


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## DirectDevil (20 Oct 2018)

noproblem said:


> Good lad, you're learning.



In what specific sense ? I said nothing essentially new in post #50


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