# More examples of good value in NI, poor value in RoI



## Protocol (12 May 2008)

This weekend I came across more examples of the good value available in the north.

I had a Sunday roast dinner (roast pork or beef, etc., with roast potatoes, stuffing balls, Yorkshire pudding, veg) with a free drink for 5.59 stg.

That's means a pint of ale and a dinner for *7.20 euro*!!

Compare this to a firend who paid *5.30 euro* for a 33cl bottle of Miller in Langton's in Kilkenny on Sat night.

I know the overheads and costs are lower in NI, but still, such value.

Other examples: all bottles of wine will be 5.39stg or about 7 euro in J D Wetherspoon pubs in NI during their wine festival.

Yes, that's right, *7 euro per bottle*.

I also got 440ml cans of Murphy's draught stout, reduced from 67p to 47p in Lidl in Enniskillen. Unreal price. That's about *70c for 500ml*.

Sure I had to take a tray or two at that price!!!!


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## Caveat (12 May 2008)

In general, I do not do *any* substantial food or alcohol shopping in the Republic whatsoever, precisely for the above mentioned reasons. A pint of milk or loaf of bread here or there is the height of it.

I suppose I'm lucky in this respect as it is convenient for me to shop in the north.


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## Jock04 (12 May 2008)

I was home a couple of weeks ago & was delighted to show my in-laws decent city-centre pubs where a very good pint of Guinness was about €2.10.
A meal for a fiver? No problem, take your pick from the menu. Not a gargantuan feast, nor haute cuisine, but perfectly acceptable as a pub meal.

This thread got me thinking about when people back home used to complain that the price of a new car was higher in Scotland than, say, Belgium.

The "official" response from the motor industry- sorry, don't recall the who or what was he- was that the cars are priced "based on what the market will stand".

Anyone feel that a similar rational is at work here?

(ps - before anyone feels the need to point out - yes, I know, you don't have to buy it!)


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## Caveat (12 May 2008)

Jock04 said:


> I was home a couple of weeks ago & was delighted to show my in-laws decent city-centre pubs where *a very good pint of* *Guinness was about €2.10.*


 
 Please tell me this is a typo Jock...


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## Jock04 (12 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> Please tell me this is a typo Jock...


 

Caveat, my friend, I cannot tell a lie.

Well, OK, I _won't_ tell a lie! 
The Goose on Union Street - and others - Guinness £1.50 to £1.60 sterling.

There was still a few pubs with lager of the day at 99pence too.
And by that I mean maybe draught Coors or McEwans lager, named brands.


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## Protocol (12 May 2008)

Here are some Enniskillen prices:

Guinness = 2.10 stg = 2.70 euro

Coors lager = 1.79 stg = 2.30 euro

*Let me repeat that, EUR 2.30 for a pint of lager, while it's 4.00-5.00 in the RoI. Just a few dozen miles away.*

Beer and burger (certain times) = 3.99 or 4.49 stg = under 6 euro

Wine = I think about 2.00 stg for a 175ml glass = 2.60 a glass


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

What are the tax rates on alcohol in the UK?


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## Protocol (12 May 2008)

VAT here is 21%, VAT in UK is 17.5% (cafe/restaurant food may be different).

*Excise duties* on alcohol:

UK: 14.96 stg per hectolitre per % alcohol (= *19 euro approx*)

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ls&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_PROD1_027236

This means 8.50 pence per pint per %, or 35.7 pence per pint for 4.2% beer.

Ireland: *19.87* euro per hecto litre per % alcohol

[broken link removed]

*So there is very little difference in the tax rates.*


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## ubiquitous (12 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> Here are some Enniskillen prices:
> 
> Guinness = 2.10 stg = 2.70 euro
> 
> ...



Presumably these rates are from the Wetherspoon pub The Linen Hall? In my experience its a very poor pub for food. It competes vigorously on price by running happy hour and other promotions. However unless you confine yourself to the promotion products, its not particularly cheap either.

In general, pub food in the North is not nearly as good as south of the border. Ditto for most restaurants. In Co. Cavan the restaurants along the border are all booming due to a large trade coming from the North - even though they are way dearer than their competitors up there.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Presumably these rates are from the Wetherspoon pub The Linen Hall? In my experience its a very poor pub for food. It competes vigorously on price by running happy hour and other promotions. However unless you confine yourself to the promotion products, its not particularly cheap either.
> 
> In general, pub food in the North is not nearly as good as south of the border. Ditto for most restaurants. In Co. Cavan the restaurants along the border are all booming due to a large trade coming from the North - even though they are way dearer than their competitors up there.




Agreed. I would rather spend extra to sit in good surroundings (the few Wetherspoon pubs I have been have been shabby, dark and dirty). When I have eaten good food in Northern Ireland it has not been that much cheaper than south of the border.


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## Protocol (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Presumably these rates are from the Wetherspoon pub The Linen Hall? In my experience its a very poor pub for food. It competes vigorously on price by running happy hour and other promotions. However unless you confine yourself to the promotion products, its not particularly cheap either.
> 
> In general, pub food in the North is not nearly as good as south of the border. Ditto for most restaurants. In Co. Cavan the restaurants along the border are all booming due to a large trade coming from the North - even though they are way dearer than their competitors up there.


 
Yes, I am referring to J D Wetherspoon pub.

I agree the ambience and atmosphere is not great in there. It's not upmarket. You wouldn't go on a date there.

I also agree that the food is by no means brilliant.  I'd say they don't employ any chefs.  It is simple, "canteen" style food.

In contrast, I recently paid 12.95 for a "Sunday lunch" dinner in a nice restaurant in Kilrush. Yes, the food was better than JDW, and yes, the atmosphere maybe was better.

But, and this is my key point, was it worth that much more?

*12.95 in Kilrush restaurant (no drink)*

*versus*

*7.20 in JDW including a drink (Guinness, ale, wine, lots of choice)*


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## Protocol (13 May 2008)

Purple said:


> Agreed. I would rather spend extra to sit in good surroundings (the few Wetherspoon pubs I have been have been shabby, dark and dirty). When I have eaten good food in Northern Ireland it has not been that much cheaper than south of the border.


 
"Shabby, dark and dirty" - ok, they are not like Cafe en Seine or other similar large modern pubs.

But I can't agree with shabby and dirty.  Simple, less decorated, more basic, yes.

Anyway, I prefer the way the simpler fixtures and fittings leads to lower prices.


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## Caveat (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Ditto for most restaurants. In Co. Cavan the restaurants along the border are all booming due to a large trade coming from the North - even though they are way dearer than their competitors up there.


 
OK, but places like _The Olde Post Inn_ and _McNean's Bistro_ are among the best provincial restaurants in the country - hardly a fair comparison.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the franchised type pub/diner places in the UK are pretty grim, but do you really think that restaurants (_proper_ restaurants) in NI, in general, are of lower quality than in the south?


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> OK, but places like _The Olde Post Inn_ and _McNean's Bistro_ are among the best provincial restaurants in the country - hardly a fair comparison.


I can't see how you can accuse me of making an unfair comparison when I didn't even mention these places, let alone compare them to anything. For what its worth, in the Cavan area there are several less upmarket restaurants like Polo D's in Ballyconnell that are also booming from Northern trade, even though there are plenty of similar establishments in the North.



Caveat said:


> but do you really think that restaurants (_proper_ restaurants) in NI, in general, are of lower quality than in the south?


In a word, Yes


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## Jock04 (13 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> "Shabby, dark and dirty" - ok, they are not like Cafe en Seine or other similar large modern pubs.
> 
> But I can't agree with shabby and dirty. Simple, less decorated, more basic, yes.
> 
> Anyway, I prefer the way the simpler fixtures and fittings leads to lower prices.


 
Admittedly, I've been in one Wotherspoon's pub in the North which wasn't up to much. Seen a couple from the outside that I wouldn't patronise either.
But they're not all like that, some are like [broken link removed].  "The Counting House" in George Square, Glasgow.
No affiliation, other than I sometimes spend some money there.


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> I also agree that the food is by no means brilliant.  I'd say they don't employ any chefs.  It is simple, "canteen" style food.
> 
> In contrast, I recently paid 12.95 for a "Sunday lunch" dinner in a nice restaurant in Kilrush. Yes, the food was better than JDW, and yes, the atmosphere maybe was better.
> 
> ...



You can get a Sunday roast type dinner (non-subsidised) in hospital canteens around the country for not much more than a fiver. The thing is that the stuff is so basic that you mightn't want to make a habit of it. Ditto with Wetherspoons.


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## Caveat (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> ... I didn't even mention these places...


 
OK, fair enough. I read 'Cavan restaurants', 'booming' and 'far dearer' and made assumptions.

I'm intrigued by your opinion that the NI restaurants aren't as good though - no reason to dispute this and I haven't eaten in enough of them myself to have an opinion - but it's the first time I've heard this.  It seems strange to me that there should be a marked difference.


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

Well, put it this way, its commonplace for Northerners to travel south to eat out - formally or casually. I never, ever hear of Southerners travelling north to eat out. I suspect that there isn't much of a tradition of eating out up North, possibly due to the legacy of the Troubles.


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## rabbit (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> You can get a Sunday roast type dinner (non-subsidised) in hospital canteens around the country for not much more than a fiver. The thing is that the stuff is so basic that you mightn't want to make a habit of it.


A fiver did not go far in the last hospital canteen I was in.    As regards being non-subsidised, do the prices in the canteen reflect market prices paid for overheads / rent / elec / insurance etc.  Besides, canteens have a captive audience, so to speak, so the comparison is like comparing apples + oranges.


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## rabbit (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Well, put it this way, its commonplace for Northerners to travel south to eat out - formally or casually. I never, ever hear of Southerners travelling north to eat out. I suspect that there isn't much of a tradition of eating out up North, possibly due to the legacy of the Troubles.


 
People eat out in N. I too, and I have seen southeners eating out there too ...

Talking of eating out, before "celtic tiger" Ireland eating out was not very common for many southeners either..


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

rabbit said:


> A fiver did not go far in the last hospital canteen I was in.    As regards being non-subsidised, do the prices in the canteen reflect market prices paid for overheads / rent / elec / insurance etc.  Besides, canteens have a captive audience, so to speak, so the comparison is like comparing apples + oranges.



Last time I was in the canteen in Tallaght Hospital, I got a basic "meat & two veg" dinner for around a fiver.

My point was that just because a hospital canteen is cheap doesn't mean that is a particularly attractive option.


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## rabbit (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> My point was that just because a hospital canteen is cheap doesn't mean that is a particularly attractive option.


 
agreed


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## Berlin (13 May 2008)

Litre bottle of powers whiskey £17.98 in Asda, Enniskillen 9/5/2008, converted to €23.08. Same bottle €37.74 in Dunnes, Sligo 10/5/2008.


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## MandaC (13 May 2008)

The minute I read the post about the pub grub cheap in NI, I just knew it had to be one of those Wetherspoon places.

I was in one in Glasgow and it was the scariest place I have ever been in. Bar none.  The food looked absolutely awful.  You just cant compare the likes of that to a half decent carvery lunch in one of our better pubs.


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## Purple (13 May 2008)

Berlin said:


> Litre bottle of powers whiskey £17.98 in Asda, Enniskillen 9/5/2008, converted to €23.08. Same bottle €37.74 in Dunnes, Sligo 10/5/2008.



When you take away the tax what's the real difference?


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## Jock04 (13 May 2008)

MandaC said:


> The minute I read the post about the pub grub cheap in NI, I just knew it had to be one of those Wetherspoon places.
> 
> I was in one in Glasgow and it was the scariest place I have ever been in. Bar none. The food looked absolutely awful. You just cant compare the likes of that to a half decent carvery lunch in one of our better pubs.


 

Was that the one near Central Station? Wouldn't go near it either. Wrong end of town, really. 
I don't think anyone is - or can - comparing basic pub grub to a decent carvery lunch in "one of your better pubs". That applies anywhere. But comparing like for like with many products, Guinness for example, you can buy cheaper elsewhere.


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## MandaC (13 May 2008)

No from what I remember it was Jamaica Street. (is that a place) We stayed in the Jury's up the road from it, scary scary place too.

One of the original posters got a a pint of ale and a dinner for 7.20 euro(in a Wetherspoon place) whilst their friend paid €5.30 for a bottle of miller in Langtons.  Judging by the place I was in, the €5.30 for the miller would be infinitely better value.


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## rabbit (13 May 2008)

One example from one street in one city in one country does not prove anything.  I have relations who toured around Scotland recently and they were amazed at the great value for money in grub and drink...oh, and they got friendly service too.


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## Jock04 (13 May 2008)

MandaC said:


> No from what I remember it was Jamaica Street. (is that a place) We stayed in the Jury's up the road from it, scary scary place too.


 

Aye, that's the same one Manda. Not the nicest part of the city centre, especially since the working girls got moved not far from there when their old haunt was turned into mega-priced apartments.  Attracts all sorts of low-lifes.
Next time, try the one on the corner of George Square - The Counting House. A very different experience, but at the same price.


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

rabbit said:


> One example from one street in one city in one country does not prove anything.  I have relations who toured around Scotland recently and they were amazed at the great value for money in grub and drink...oh, and they got friendly service too.



The only place in Scotland I have been to is Edinburgh, and prices there in restaurants and pubs are not much different to home. Incidentally, we recently researched a tour of Scotland for a summer family holiday but abandoned our plans when we learned that the country's tourist venues as a whole have a reputation for being child-unfriendly.    I can't vouch whether this is 100% true but it came from a normally-trustworthy source (possibly the Rough Guides)


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## rabbit (13 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> The only place in Scotland I have been to is Edinburgh, and prices there in restaurants and pubs are not much different to home. Incidentally, we recently researched a tour of Scotland for a summer family holiday but abandoned our plans when we learned that the country's tourist venues as a whole have a reputation for being child-unfriendly.  I can't vouch whether this is 100% true but it came from a normally-trustworthy source (possibly the Rough Guides)


 
A steak and chips in a decent restaurant in Edinburgh is about 13 to 14 sterling...about 17 to 18 euro. You will not get that in Dublin. They have kids too, no problem there.   Check your source again, I doubt it was the rough guides.


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## ubiquitous (13 May 2008)

I can get steak & chips for €18 or so near my home. I don't live in Dublin. 

Edinburgh is not child-unfriendly, however as I say I have read that Scotland as a whole is not regarded as a child-friendly country for tourists. As I say,I can't vouch whether this is 100% true.


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## Jock04 (14 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Edinburgh is not child-unfriendly, however as I say I have read that Scotland as a whole is not regarded as a child-friendly country for tourists. As I say,I can't vouch whether this is 100% true.


 
I think a lot of this perception stems from the law which doesn't allow children into public bars. Other than that, I can't think of any major difference.


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## Purple (14 May 2008)

rabbit said:


> A steak and chips in a decent restaurant in Edinburgh is about 13 to 14 sterling...about 17 to 18 euro. You will not get that in Dublin. They have kids too, no problem there.   Check your source again, I doubt it was the rough guides.


I can, and I live in Dublin.


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## Protocol (15 May 2008)

Please tell me where you can get a steak in Dublin for 17-18 euro?

More value in NI:

Cup of coffee in JDW for 70-80p or *1 euro*.


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> Please tell me where you can get a steak in Dublin for 17-18 euro?
> 
> More value in NI:
> 
> Cup of coffee in JDW for 70-80p or *1 euro*.



This isn't exactly true. JDW normally offer a promotion special on a particular coffee product (cappucino, espresso etc) for about 75p, but if you want any other type of coffee or tea you pay the same as everywhere else.

My local Statoil/Topaz garage does the same, offering coffee and a bar this morning for €2, yet they are an expensive choice for almost everything else. If I were to use the "coffee & a bar" offer to try to convince you that Statoil/Topaz is great value for refreshments, and emblematic of the great value in cafes in the Republic, you would laugh at me.


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## Protocol (16 May 2008)

But your example is of a *takeaway* nature.

Whereas I can *sit down* in a JDW pub in NI, and have a coffee for 1 euro.

Here is a pdf of a part of their menu:

[broken link removed]

The coffees on this are *all* 99p for a small, 1.19stg for a large.  That's *1.55 euro* for a large one.

The prices aren't the same all over the UK, that accounts for how it's 79p in NI.


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> But your example is of a *takeaway* nature.


No its not, my local Statoil/Topaz has extensive sit-down area, as have many (most?) of their outlets

Btw, its a bit pointless linking to a pdf which you then concede does not apply in NI.


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## Protocol (16 May 2008)

Also on that menu, note the following:

a traditional breakfast for under *3.50 euro*

a 10-oz aged rib-eye steak for *under 12 euro*

a tuna or ham baguette or ciabatta for *under 3.50 euro*

guest ales for *under* *2 euro a pint*


Plus wine for under a *tenner euro a bottle*, in a pub.

I have to say again*, such value.*


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

But...



Protocol said:


> The prices aren't the same all over the UK.


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## boaber (16 May 2008)

To see if there truly is good value in the North, you should compare like with like, i.e. look at the prices for the same products in the same stores North & South of the border.

For example

MP3 player is €179.99 in Argos in The Republic.  The same is £99.99 (€125) in Argos up north.  It has been reduced from £119.99 (€150)

In NEXT, look at the Grey Linen Suit on the Irish website compared to the [broken link removed] website.  €166 in Ireland and £110 in the UK (€137.50)

These are just two examples, but there are 1'000's more.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

That's not comparing like with like since it does not take into account the cost of living and of doing business in the respective regions/jurisdictions.


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## Sylvester3 (16 May 2008)

I've lived in NI, England, and I'm now living in Ireland. I think the best place for value was in England, North London, because of the sheer size of the market - you could find a huge range of stores to investigate with tremendous competition between them. However I find the Tax burden here to be much less than in the UK, so frankly my wife and I are much better off here.

In the UK, we had a tiny apartment whilst living off two salaries, whilst here we are living off one salary, my wife is in college and we can afford a nice three bedroom home, so we feel much wealthier. The tax breaks and reliefs here are wonderful, and the lack of the burdensome council tax is a huge relief to our budget.


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## boaber (16 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> That's not comparing like with like since it does not take into account the cost of living and of doing business in the respective regions/jurisdictions.



So are you saying that there is no way to compare the cost of goods between different countries?

I don't think the cost of living and of doing business has any relevance in my post.  The price of the MP3 player in Argos for example is the same no matter where you live in Ireland, as it is in the UK. i.e London certainly has a higher cost of living and cost of doing business than say Enniskillen, yet the prices are the same.


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## ubiquitous (16 May 2008)

boaber said:


> So are you saying that there is no way to compare the cost of goods between different countries?



http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/about.cfm



> Big Mac Index
> 
> Burgernomics is based on the theory of purchasing-power parity, the notion that a dollar should buy the same amount in all countries. Thus in the long run, the exchange rate between two countries should move towards the rate that equalises the prices of an identical basket of goods and services in each country. Our "basket" is a McDonald's Big Mac, which is produced in about 120 countries. The Big Mac PPP is the exchange rate that would mean hamburgers cost the same in America as abroad. Comparing actual exchange rates with PPPs indicates whether a currency is under- or overvalued.


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## ClubMan (17 May 2008)

boaber said:


> So are you saying that there is no way to compare the cost of goods between different countries?


No - that's not what I said at all.


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## podgerodge (21 May 2008)

IKEA Belfast - £1.80 for a kids meal of fish finger, peas, chips + jelly + soft drink (I wasn't that hungry!)  = €2.30
If they ever open down here I bet it won't be anywhere near that price.

Large Hotdog (I felt hungry later on) - 80p = €1.

Maplin Electronics Belfast - everything cheaper as their republic stores are basing prices on exchange rates of roundabout .66 instead of .79.   Hence an item for £100 is about €150 down here versus the equivalent of €125 up in Belfast.  Happy days.


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## Protocol (22 May 2008)

Irish Times (Sat) = £1 = 1.25-1.30 euro, whereas it's 2 euro in the RoI.

NB: 12.5% VAT on newspapers in the Republic.


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## xavier (22 May 2008)

In the recent past I have purchased the following items.

A watch, one alloy wheel, fitted car mats and a pair of sunglasses. In all cases I purchased the goods in the North/UK.

The watch was €495 here, I paid £280 for it.

The alloy wheel was €465+vat here, quoted price up north £274 but paid £260. Irish guy wouldn't entertain a haggle.

Fitted car mats were €135 here and purchased for £55 up north.

Finally the sunnies were €270 here and I paid £165 + £4.95 delivery from the UK.


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## Joe1234 (22 May 2008)

Protocol said:


> Irish Times (Sat) = £1 = 1.25-1.30 euro, whereas it's 2 euro in the RoI.
> 
> NB: 12.5% VAT on newspapers in the Republic.



Should the VAT rate not be 13.5%?


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## Joe1234 (22 May 2008)

Small cartons of Milupa Aptamil 2 (baby food) 50p last week in Sainsbury's, and €1.19 in Tesco.


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## efm (23 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> That's not comparing like with like since it does not take into account the cost of living and of doing business in the respective regions/jurisdictions.


 
I agree, and I have argued something similar in other threads; however, how do we calculate / investigate if this difference is just the different cost base of different jurisdictions or is increased profit margin for southern retailers?  Is there any way to baseline the different cost bases to allow a true comparison for consumers?


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## Purple (23 May 2008)

Untimely if the Irish consumer is less price sensitive than the UK consumer the retailer will see it and charge more for the same goods. Anyone who thinks this is wrong should ask themselves if they would, when selling a house or car, sell for the highest amount possible or cap their price at what they thought was fair a market price.


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## sam h (23 May 2008)

> I agree, and I have argued something similar in other threads; however, how do we calculate / investigate if this difference is just the different cost base of different jurisdictions or is increased profit margin for southern retailers? Is there any way to baseline the different cost bases to allow a true comparison for consumers?


 
It's true that to do a real price comparison, you would have to take into account numberous factors (rent, insurance, wages, rate of exchange, etc).  But that is not feasible for most people - it generally come down to whether it is worth the hassle & cost of a drive up north.  As sterling changes and retailers not passing on the savings - I reckon more will be doing their own analysis and getting into their car for a wee drive !!


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## efm (23 May 2008)

Purple said:


> Untimely if the Irish consumer is less price sensitive than the UK consumer the retailer will see it and charge more for the same goods.


 
I agree 100% and I am happy to live in a market economy where this is possible. However, I think that part of that price insensitivity is down to consumers not knowing the difference, in real terms, between the cost base in Ireland and the cost base in the UK.

I accept that there are higher transport, labour, excise (where applicable) and VAT costs in Ireland than in the UK. Is it possible, or has anyone done it, to come up with an average of the price differential that these different costs add to a consumer good?

To take Joe1234's example of Aptamil baby food, the cost in euro is €0.63 in the UK versus €1.19 in Ireland - if we take a cost base differential of 25% (I'm just guessing) then the equivelant price in Ireland should be €0.79 - does this mean that the €0.50 extra is the profit margin for the retailer in Ireland?

Is it possible to come up with a matrix of cost base differentials for different goods? eg for non perishable groceries the cost base differential is 27% - so if a price in Ireland is more than 27% higher than the one in the UK then Irish consumers are not getting a good deal.

If this information was available it would allow consumers make informed decisions about their purchases and willingness to accept a retailers price.

As I write this I am thinking there must be some EU wide central CPI or other index which measures this - or should I just put the tinfoil hat back on?


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## ubiquitous (23 May 2008)

efm said:


> To take Joe1234's example of Aptamil baby food, the cost in euro is €0.63 in the UK versus €1.19 in Ireland - if we take a cost base differential of 25% (I'm just guessing) then the equivelant price in Ireland should be €0.79 - does this mean that the €0.50 extra is the profit margin for the retailer in Ireland?



Perhaps. However I suspect that at least some of the extra profit margin is being pocketed by manufacturers and distributors - especially as I understand it is illegal in this country for a retailer to offer price discounts on artificial baby food.


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## ubiquitous (23 May 2008)

efm said:


> Is it possible to come up with a matrix of cost base differentials for different goods? eg for non perishable groceries the cost base differential is 27% - so if a price in Ireland is more than 27% higher than the one in the UK then Irish consumers are not getting a good deal.
> 
> If this information was available it would allow consumers make informed decisions about their purchases and willingness to accept a retailers price.
> 
> As I write this I am thinking there must be some EU wide central CPI or other index which measures this - or should I just put the tinfoil hat back on?



I can't see how such a price index could operate meaningfully. Even within a single economy, every product and every retailer has a different cost base. When one compares different economies using different currencies, it would be very difficult to objectively measure the effect of legislative requirements on comparative prices. To take one example, how does one determine whether the Irish plastic bag levy increases or decreases retailers costs?


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## Protocol (23 May 2008)

Yes, costs are higher in the RoI:

- Wage rates
- Rents very high, I'd say
- Overheads (utilities, insurances, waste, etc.)

Also, indirect taxes are higher:

- 21% VAT vs. 17.5% in UK
- 13.5% VAT vs I'm not sure of the lower rate in the UK
- Higher excise duties on alcohol

However, taking all that into account, I still feel we get bad value in RoI.

This is due to:

- higher gross and net wholesale and retail margins here
- higher willingness-to-pay, so we are charged more because we are willing to pay more
- a general lack of competition

So I suppose some of it is our own fault


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## colin79ie (23 May 2008)

A good example is Sky. If anyone gets the fliers in UK magazines or whatever, compare the cost. I think the Basic package is £16/month. This also includes broadband and phone calls.

I have the basic package here for €30/month. And the only extras I get are junk mails through the letterbox!

You can't explain this one away with higher wage costs etc. Their main technical base is in the UK. They don't require any service centres here. It's all done privately and paid for directly by the consumer in most cases. Most of their staff are in the UK.

Quite simply....RIP OFF REPUBLIC.

Take the diesel price hike. I reckon it's purely down to the fact that the VRT and tax changes in July mean that most will be looking towards diesel cars. The oil companies here know this and hike up the prices. They know people will buy it so they don't care.

I do all my shopping in NI for the simple reason that it's cheaper. Recently had to buy a packet of pampers baby wipes in Super Valu. €4.65 for one pack of 72. In Sainsburys in NI. £5.99 for 4 packs of 72.
I usually see that for €100 euro in NI you could fill a shopping trolley. In the republic you could maybe cover the bottom of it.


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## ubiquitous (23 May 2008)

colin79ie said:


> A good example is Sky. If anyone gets the fliers in UK magazines or whatever, compare the cost. I think the Basic package is £16/month. This also includes broadband and phone calls.
> 
> Quite simply....RIP OFF REPUBLIC.



Surely this should be "RIP OFF SKY" ?


colin79ie said:


> Take the diesel price hike. I reckon it's purely down to the fact that the VRT and tax changes in July mean that most will be looking towards diesel cars. The oil companies here know this and hike up the prices. They know people will buy it so they don't care.


But how then do you explain the fact that diesel prices in the UK and elsewhere have risen in tandem with the prices here - even though VRT only exists in Ireland and there are no corresponding motor tax changes in the UK this July?


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## ClubMan (23 May 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Surely this should be "RIP OFF SKY" ?


And/or lazy consumers - e.g. those who don't bother to avail of comparable FTA satellite _TV_/radio for a once off fee to cover any hardware installation (and not even that if you have _SKY _gear installed and cancel after one year's subscription) but prefer to pay "rip off" charges instead?


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## jmayo (23 May 2008)

Joe1234 said:


> Small cartons of Milupa Aptamil 2 (baby food) 50p last week in Sainsbury's, and €1.19 in Tesco.



Joe where was that Sainsbury's store ?
I might be off to load up the car trailer one of these weekends


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## Joe1234 (24 May 2008)

jmayo said:


> Joe where was that Sainsbury's store ?



Armagh.  On Thursday week last.


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## ubiquitous (24 May 2008)

I came across the following classic quote, which indicates that this problem is not a new one.



> Of course the tourist will want facts. He will principally want to know why taxation is so high, why Dublin is the most expensive city in Europe, why Irish whiskey is dearer in Ireland than it is in England, why Irish roads are bad for motorists compared to English roads.



Liam O'Flaherty _A Tourist's Guide to Ireland_ written in ...... 1929 




(quote ref: Page 46 of Wolfhound Press edition, published in 1998 IR£5.99, now for sale for GBP£2.00 in Bargain Books, Enniskillen   )


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## ashambles (25 May 2008)

> A good example is Sky. If anyone gets the fliers in UK magazines or whatever, compare the cost. I think the Basic package is £16/month. This also includes broadband and phone calls.
> 
> I have the basic package here for €30/month.


Actually this isn't a good example, basic Sky in the UK is 16 pound in Ireland it's 20 euro. I believe Irish consumers also get more channels on this mix than UK customers as the Irish channels are included. I'd guess however few in the UK or Ireland are on this most basic package, as it involves downgrading.

Maybe a better example would be RTE who were charging 50c for texts votes for Eurovision, BBC were charging 15p for phone call votes. Weren't RTE running the euro ripoff story all week?


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## RMCF (28 May 2008)

I see Brian Cowan said today that he is going to take action against the big supermarkets/retailers if they don't align their Euro prices to the Sterlign equivalent they are charging.

Good on him.


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## Calico (28 May 2008)

RMCF said:


> I see Brian Cowan said today that he is going to take action against the big supermarkets/retailers if they don't align their Euro prices to the Sterlign equivalent they are charging.
> 
> Good on him.



What can he do though?


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## ubiquitous (28 May 2008)

> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye


Matthew 7:3


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## RMCF (31 May 2008)

Saw a new example of rip-off Ireland in a local shop on the way to play football the other day.

I was going to buy Lucozade Sport and seen one with 25% extra free. Paid for it and thought it was expensive. On leaving the shop I walked past the shelf and looked at the price labels underneath the drinks.

The *25% extra FREE* one was 20% more expensive than the ordinary one.

As they say, no such thing as something for FREE>

I have a good mind to report them to whoever produces Lucozade, if I thought it would do any good.


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## gebbel (31 May 2008)

RMCF said:


> The *25% extra FREE* one was 20% more expensive than the ordinary one.



That takes the biscuit. Seriously though this whole rip off culture is causing me to feel very angry and frustrated. I need an outlet for this. Does anyone recall the uproar in Greece when they joined the Euro? Like here, prices were rounded up to an even figure. Consumers there, unlike here, decided enough was enough and organized a mass protest. I'm not saying that's what we should do but, if one were organized here, I would deffo be there.


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## ubiquitous (3 Jun 2008)

gebbel said:


> Consumers there.. decided enough was enough and organized a mass protest.


...which resulted in....???


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## ClubMan (3 Jun 2008)

RMCF said:


> I have a good mind to report them to whoever produces Lucozade, if I thought it would do any good.


Why not just check the prices of goods more carefully before purchasing the next time? It was your own fault that you paid "too much". Besides - what to you expect the manufacturer to do? Try to enforce RRPs which would simply be yet another barrier to competition? Why didn't you bring the item back before leaving the shop, complain and get a refund or replacement (i.e. the cheaper product)?



gebbel said:


> That takes the biscuit. Seriously though this whole rip off culture is causing me to feel very angry and frustrated. I need an outlet for this.


Why not exercise your right as a consumer to make informed purchases at what you consider the most competitive outlets? That's the best way to engage in direct action and effect change. On the other hand...


gebbel said:


> Consumers there, unlike here, decided enough was enough and organized a mass protest. I'm not saying that's what we should do but, if one were organized here, I would deffo be there.


... if that's how you feel then why don't *YOU *organise one rather than waiting for somebody else to do all the hard work? Or maybe you just want to bleat about the issue rather than actually doing something?


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## Megan (3 Jun 2008)

I was in Newry on Saturday and a number of shops was given € to the £. Notice in Saturday's Indo that a number of shops in Belfast were given the same rate for the weekend.  Debenhams were given approx 81 cent to the £. The other thing I noticed that alot of shops had notices on their doors or in the window for fulltime and partime staff. The carpark had about 75% cars with republic number plates. 4 hours free parking in the Quays. I was also parked for approx 2 hours in the Buttercrane for free. 5 hours free parking (that would costs me €5 at home)


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## ClubMan (3 Jun 2008)

Megan said:


> 5 hours free parking (that would costs me €5 at home)


5 hours *free *parking would cost €5 in the _Free State_? Now that *IS *a rip-off.


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## Megan (3 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> 5 hours *free *parking would cost €5 in the _Free State_? Now that *IS *a rip-off.



You are saying it is a rip-off not me. I know €1 per hour isn't expensive for parking in the republic but it is €1 per hour dearer then Newry.


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## RMCF (3 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Why not just check the prices of goods more carefully before purchasing the next time? It was your own fault that you paid "too much". Besides - what to you expect the manufacturer to do? Try to enforce RRPs which would simply be yet another barrier to competition? Why didn't you bring the item back before leaving the shop, complain and get a refund or replacement (i.e. the cheaper product)?
> 
> 
> Why not exercise your right as a consumer to make informed purchases at what you consider the most competitive outlets? That's the best way to engage in direct action and effect change. On the other hand...
> ...


 
Personally I wasn't overly maddened about the different prices.

I was giving the example more to show how much of a con it can be to shop in the RoI, and the reason I am delighted that I live right on the border, where I often get to buy my Lucozade in packs of 4 at half price when the NI supermarkets or shops run promotions on it.


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## ubiquitous (4 Jun 2008)

RMCF said:


> I was giving the example more to show how much of a con it can be to shop in the RoI, and the reason I am delighted that I live right on the border, where I often get to buy my Lucozade in packs of 4 at half price when the NI supermarkets or shops run promotions on it.


I think it a bit simplistic to use this this as an example of "how much of a con it can be to shop in the RoI" when its not unknown for retailers in NI or GB to do likewise.


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## ClubMan (4 Jun 2008)

RMCF said:


> Personally I wasn't overly maddened about the different prices.


In that case why would you bother having ...


RMCF said:


> ... a good mind to report them to whoever produces Lucozade, if I thought it would do any good.




Of course if you are not really bothered by alleged "rip offs" and "cons" (or what I might term simple pricing discrepancies) then it seems odd to bother posting and complaining about them here...


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## truthseeker (2 Jul 2008)

They had a piece on TV3 news yesterday evening about a guy who has set up a service to collect Irish shoppers, drive them up North, let them out at Sainsburys and then collect them when theyve done the shopping and bring them home again. He stated the first trip was free and if it went down well and the shoppers thought theyd be interested in a regular trip he had every intention of setting it up.
There were a number of housewives interviewed making statements like 'Ive saved half of what Id usually spend on groceries', 'Ive saved at least 70 euro', 'oh Ill definitely be back, theres huge savings' etc....
It would seem that shoppers are starting to vote with their feet on this.


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