# Fair Deal Scheme - increase in asset contribution from 5% to 7.5% p.a.



## The Ghoul (20 Jun 2013)

I have a few relatives in nursing homes who will be affected by this change from 5 to 7.5% in the Health (Amendment) Bill 2013 if the change applies to people already in nursing homes under the Fair Deal. 

According to Minister Reilly in a Seanad debate on 19th June, "Section 7 (of the Bill) increases the asset contribution to 7.5% for new entrants to the nursing homes support scheme" 
http://www.kildarestreet.com/sendebates/?id=2013-06-19a.206

However the Irish Independent previously reported the following quote from a Dept of Health spokesman: "The increased asset contribution will apply to both new and existing nursing home residents"
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle...r-deal-when-the-changes-kick-in-29136470.html

I have looked at the Bill myself but it's not clear to me. Has anyone any more info?


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## Sue Ellen (21 Jun 2013)

Going through the system at the moment and any time I ask the EHB staff about this increase they say that they are not kept to date on developments and know as much as me!  They did say at the same time that as far as they are aware that existing patients will not suffer the increase.


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## RPC757 (23 Oct 2013)

Am currently in the process of applying under the fair deal scheme for long term care on behalf of my mother. 

Have just received correspondence from HSE that as my mother is incapacitated and unable to sign the application herself I will need to apply to the local district court to become her care repersentative in order to place the nursing home loan on her PPR. 

Would be grateful if someone could let me know what is involved in this process, do I need to engage a solicitor, how much does it cost and how long does the process take. ? Thanks in advance.


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## GDUFFY (24 Oct 2013)

We were lucky to be advised by a Consultant in Beaumount to get an Enduring power of attorney in place quickly for our mother. We never heard of it ,but had it in place by following week through our family Solicitor. 

I would advise anybody who is dealing with a family member who is in early Dementia to act quickly as the person concerned has to be of sound mind when the Enduring power is created. If the person is deemed by either the Solicitor or Doctor to be not of sound mind you are too late. Our solicitor explained everything to our mother and so did the doctor ,she was happy we will make future decisions instead of the court about her care and finances.I think this needs to be highlighted more and at an earlier stage to families heading into dealing with Dementia.  



http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/before_a_death/power_of_attorney.html


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## RPC757 (24 Oct 2013)

I couldn,t agree more with you. I,ve been left with a situation where mother and fathers health declined rapidly early last year. Despite a will been made we never had any discussion in terms of bank accounts, shares etc etc. Father passed away in July and had major trouble accessing funds to cover the burial costs.  

Have 2 sons and I know when they are old enough I will sit them down and show them everything and how to access it. It should be a warning to everyone.

Would be still grateful if someone could answer my query from my last post.


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## twofor1 (24 Oct 2013)

RPC757 said:


> Would be grateful if someone could let me know what is involved in this process, do I need to engage a solicitor, how much does it cost and how long does the process take. ? Thanks in advance.


 
Sorry, have never been through the procedure, but you should find some answers here; 

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services_for_older_people/nursing_homes_support_scheme_1.html

*Procedure for appointment as a Care Representative*
The application for appointment must be made to the County Registrar in any county in the Circuit in which the person requiring a Care Representative now lives or in which he/ she has lived at any time during the past three years. 
You do not need to obtain legal representation in order to be appointed as a Care Representative. However, anyone who wishes to seek legal advice/representation is free to do so. 
For more information on the legal procedure, see Information Booklet on the Nursing Homes Support Scheme (pdf). You can also download the application form from the Courts Service website.


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## elcato (25 Oct 2013)

> Would be grateful if someone could let me know what is involved in this  process, do I need to engage a solicitor, how much does it cost and how  long does the process take. ?


I got a solicitor to do this for me but I should have probably done it myself. I'm not taking away the fact that it requires work and a solicitor is good enough value but if money is tight you could be as well off. The only danger may be that when you get to the court you may have forgotten one step or a document and would have to wait a while for another date. It's been two years since I did it so can't recall the awkward bits. When I was in court the people before and after me did so without a solicitor.

See this link.
[broken link removed]


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## Sue Ellen (27 Oct 2013)

RPC757 said:


> Am currently in the process of applying under the fair deal scheme for long term care on behalf of my mother.
> 
> Have just received correspondence from HSE that as my mother is incapacitated and unable to sign the application herself I will need to apply to the local district court to become her care repersentative in order to place the nursing home loan on her PPR.
> 
> Would be grateful if someone could let me know what is involved in this process, do I need to engage a solicitor, how much does it cost and how long does the process take. ? Thanks in advance.



Presumably you have dealt with the social worker and they have explained the 2nd option of paying a monthly sum towards the cost of the nursing home rather than the loan on the PPR option.  According to our nursing home most people appear to go down this route as it is much quicker.

We were told by the hospital that our relative could be in hospital for up to a year while the application for the loan option was processed.


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## STEINER (28 Oct 2013)

Sue Ellen said:


> Presumably you have dealt with the social worker and they have explained the 2nd option of paying a monthly sum towards the cost of the nursing home rather than the loan on the PPR option.



yes, that is the way with my relative. PPR untouched, the weekly charge of ~€300 paid by monthly DD is the only liability. Its tight enough though as this is met by the COAP and savings which are sufficient with the timescale in this particular case.


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## elcato (28 Nov 2013)

So getting back to the original question, has there been clarification yet ? According to [broken link removed] document it seems (but not clearly) to assess only new applicants at 7.5%


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## twofor1 (28 Nov 2013)

*How is my contribution to care calculated? *
The financial assessment is slightly different depending on when you applied for the Scheme.

There are two elements to your contribution. You will contribute up to 80% of your assessable income and 7.5% of the value of any assets per annum(5% of assets if the application was made prior to the 25th July 2013). 

*Will my house be taken into account? *
Your principal residence will only be included in the financial assessment for the first 3 years of your time in care. This is known as the 22.5% or ‘three year’ cap (15% if the application was made prior to the 25th July 2013) and means that after three years of care you will not be liable for any further contribution based on the value of the principal residence. 

Page 6 here:

*http://www.dohc.ie/issues/fair_deal/FAQs_07_2013.pdf?direct=1*


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