# Sold House April '11, Tax Return 2012?



## Tir Eoin Abu (25 Sep 2011)

Simple question for you knowledgeable lot:

I sold my PPR in April 2011. Looking at the Revenue website, it looks to me that I need to file my tax return in respect of this by end Oct 2012, not end of Oct 2011. Is this correct?


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## ClubMan (26 Sep 2011)

Did I miss something or since when do tax returns need to be filed on foot of the disposal of one's _PPR_?


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## Tir Eoin Abu (26 Sep 2011)

According the Revenue's website (I'm not permitted to post URL; on the 'Buying & Selling' - "Buying a House" page under 'Personal Tax" ):

"Please note that even where PPR relief means that no CGT is payable you will still be required to provide a tax return in relation to the sale. "

This is what I'm referring to.

Under the "Popular Forms' section of the site, there is a link to Form 12 (which I'm assuming I'll need to submit) but it's for 2010. The deadline for submission of the 2010 form is Oct 2011, so I'm assuming the deadline for the 2011 form is Oct 2012. Is this right?


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## Gekko (26 Sep 2011)

There should also be a CGT return which you can file (it's for non chargeable persons - i.e. individuals not obliged to submit Form 11s or Form 12s).


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## mandelbrot (26 Sep 2011)

Gekko said:


> There should also be a CGT return which you can file (it's for non chargeable persons - i.e. individuals not obliged to submit Form 11s or Form 12s).



That's a CG1.

The 2010 one is here
www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cgt/.../formcg1.pdf

The 2011 one probably won't be available until the new year.


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## Tir Eoin Abu (28 Sep 2011)

Ok, thanks for the clarity all!


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## ClubMan (28 Sep 2011)

Tir Eoin Abu said:


> According the Revenue's website (I'm not permitted to post URL; on the 'Buying & Selling' - "Buying a House" page under 'Personal Tax" ):
> 
> "Please note that even where PPR relief means that no CGT is payable you will still be required to provide a tax return in relation to the sale. "
> 
> This is what I'm referring to.


Interesting - was never aware of that and I suspect that the vast majority of people are also unaware of this and don't file such returns even if technically they are supposed to? Unless the conveyancing solicitor takes care of it or something (which I doubt)...?


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## T McGibney (28 Sep 2011)

ClubMan said:


> Interesting - was never aware of that and I suspect that the vast majority of people are also unaware of this and don't file such returns even if technically they are supposed to?



Its another stupid layer of bureaucracy in this country. I filed one for a client some years ago, claimed the PPR exemption and the client got a bill for CGT, calculated at a straight 20% of the sale price! It took another letter to Revenue to get rid of the tax bill.


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## Gekko (28 Sep 2011)

I suppose Revenue feel that they need visibility of such transactions so they can identify cases where the current use value of the property and its market value aren't the same (in layman's terms where the buyer pays over the odds because the property has development potential).

I'm far from an apologist for Revenue, but PPR relief is probably the most valuable relief most people will claim in their lifetime...it's not unreasonable in my view for Revenue to want evidence of the relief claim.


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## T McGibney (3 Oct 2011)

Gekko said:


> I suppose Revenue feel that they need visibility of such transactions so they can identify cases where the current use value of the property and its market value aren't the same (in layman's terms where the buyer pays over the odds because the property has development potential).



Sorry, I can't understand how a completed Form 11 or CG1, which include a PPR CGT claim, could assist Revenue in identifying such cases?


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## Gekko (3 Oct 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Sorry, I can't understand how a completed Form 11 or CG1, which include a PPR CGT claim, could assist Revenue in identifying such cases?


 
Quite easily if the sales proceeds were out of synch with similar properties.

How do you think Revenue identify "development land cases"?


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## T McGibney (3 Oct 2011)

Gekko said:


> Quite easily if the sales proceeds were out of synch with similar properties.



But neither form 11 nor CG1 facilitate or allow any narrative description of the property being sold, merely generic terms such as 'development land' 'agricultural land' etc



Gekko said:


> How do you think Revenue identify "development land cases"?



In the first instance, from stamp duty documents.


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## mandelbrot (3 Oct 2011)

Gekko said:


> How do you think Revenue identify "development land cases"?



Under audit, or as part of the audit screening process...?


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## Gekko (3 Oct 2011)

T McGibney said:


> But neither form 11 nor CG1 facilitate or allow any narrative description of the property being sold, merely generic terms such as 'development land' 'agricultural land' etc
> 
> 
> 
> In the first instance, from stamp duty documents.


 


mandelbrot said:


> Under audit, or as part of the audit screening process...?


 
I've dealt with two "development land" scenarios over the last few years and both stemmed from the disclosure of the disposal on the relevant individuals' returns.  One Revenue district actually did a "CGT project" and closely inspected all PPR disposals.


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