# Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over property purchase?



## foxylady (16 May 2008)

Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase, if so where they successful and what were costs.

Our situation is after having bought newbuild that is going way beyond the completion date we want our money back and have been told this is only way to go.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

Is this not a clear breach of contract not requiring any arbitration? What has your solicitor advised?


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## foxylady (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*



ClubMan said:


> Is this not a clear breach of contract not requiring any arbitration? What has your solicitor advised?


 

Arbitration is what he has advised.


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## Vanilla (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

Some contracts combine with building agreements and would have a clause whereby any disagreement would have to be submitted to arbitration.


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## quinno (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

Usually a clause for concilliation as well, less formal than arbitration proceuure. Bear in mind also that arbitral award is final (i.e. no course of appeal). In my experince, used quite commoinly in land / lease disputes. Usually, an arbitrator heards each side and awards pretty quickly.


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## foxylady (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*



quinno said:


> Usually a clause for concilliation as well, less formal than arbitration proceuure. Bear in mind also that arbitral award is final (i.e. no course of appeal). In my experince, used quite commoinly in land / lease disputes. Usually, an arbitrator heards each side and awards pretty quickly.


 

This is for purchase of property not land or lease and I am wondering if anyone on here has had to do this and what there experiences were, i.e costs outcome etc.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

?


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## Saudi (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

The arbitration process is in Ireland is becoming more like the courts.  Takes a similar length of time and can cost just as much if not more (you have to pay the arbitrator).  If you win you are entitled to your costs just like in court (obviously there are rules in relation to this and you should discuss this issue with your solicitor)

Your solicitor should be able to tell you what issues you should consider in proceeding to arbitration (just like he would if you were issuing proceedings in court).  Never go down this route lightly as it can be long and expensive.

A clever solicitor might be able to get around the arbitration clause (some times a developer might not even realise the dispute is subject to arbitration) and bring the matter through the courts which the developer might not like as it would be on public record and therefore open to scrutiny by the press.

Good luck with it.

S


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## foxylady (16 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*



Saudi said:


> The arbitration process is in Ireland is becoming more like the courts. Takes a similar length of time and can cost just as much if not more (you have to pay the arbitrator). If you win you are entitled to your costs just like in court (obviously there are rules in relation to this and you should discuss this issue with your solicitor)
> 
> Your solicitor should be able to tell you what issues you should consider in proceeding to arbitration (just like he would if you were issuing proceedings in court). Never go down this route lightly as it can be long and expensive.
> 
> ...


 
When u say through the courts would this not be more costly than arbitration?


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## ramble (19 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*

Arbitration can sometimes be more expensive than the courts.  An arbitration will have 2 sets of lawyers to be paid as in court but the arbitrator must also be paid, and they are not cheap.  Typically 400 per hour.  Judges are, apart from a small fee to the court, free. The arbitrator has no vested interest in getting through the case quickly (He's getting paid by the hour!) whereas a judge will have a long list of cases to dispose of.  Judges are also typically more pro-active in getting through things put in front of them whereas and arbitrator can ask for all sorts of experts etc.  Judges tend to be more favourable towards joe punter rather than big builders.  You might talk to your solicitor about his previous experience of arbitration and ask him to talk to a barrister practicing in building arbitration/law about your case.


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## foxylady (22 May 2008)

*Re: Arbitration Advice*



ramble said:


> Arbitration can sometimes be more expensive than the courts. An arbitration will have 2 sets of lawyers to be paid as in court but the arbitrator must also be paid, and they are not cheap. Typically 400 per hour. Judges are, apart from a small fee to the court, free. The arbitrator has no vested interest in getting through the case quickly (He's getting paid by the hour!) whereas a judge will have a long list of cases to dispose of. Judges are also typically more pro-active in getting through things put in front of them whereas and arbitrator can ask for all sorts of experts etc. Judges tend to be more favourable towards joe punter rather than big builders. You might talk to your solicitor about his previous experience of arbitration and ask him to talk to a barrister practicing in building arbitration/law about your case.


 
Thanks for that, our solicitor gave the impression that arbitration is much cheaper and faster than going to court.


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## dazza21ie (22 May 2008)

*Re: Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase?*

I think the advice above might be misleading. Arbitration is usally quicker and less expensive than court proceedings. If the contract for the property purchase states that disputes must go to arbitration then this is the only option because if court proceedings are started they will more than likely be stayed by the other side. I think you should take your solicitors advice.


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## Hasslehoff (22 May 2008)

*Re: Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase?*

I think you should look at the contract first to see if there is a remedy, breach or term in there that will allow you to repudiate the contract. That is the first thing to rule out before leaping to arbitration or court, seriously a Builder versus a homeowner. Have you asked to be released from the contract due to the time delay ? Is the completion date an express or implied term within the agreement? Can you apply for equitable relief that is have there been broken promises ?


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## foxylady (23 May 2008)

*Re: Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase?*



Hasslehoff said:


> I think you should look at the contract first to see if there is a remedy, breach or term in there that will allow you to repudiate the contract. That is the first thing to rule out before leaping to arbitration or court, seriously a Builder versus a homeowner. Have you asked to be released from the contract due to the time delay ? Is the completion date an express or implied term within the agreement? Can you apply for equitable relief that is have there been broken promises ?


 

We were told we can be released from contract but not get our money back. Apt was supposed to be ready after 18 months, then was extended to 24 mths which would be next month, but the foundations have not even been poured yet. I dont really want to go to arbitration because now we are told it will cost thousands and might not even work so obviously we cant afford to do this.


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## One (26 May 2008)

*Re: Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase?*

Hi there,

I have experience of going to arbitration once (for defects to the house) and I was advised on a different house that I was going to have to go to arbitration when the builder stopped all work on the building site. 

My comments on this will only be of very limited value but here they are anyway..........
(1) Arbitration will (should) results in you taking no financial loss whatsoever if your solicitor is on top of things. However arbitration is a worrying process for you, but if you can be confident that things will work out, that should be some comfort.
(2) Take notes! Record details! Any arguement / dispute / arbitration is easier to resolve in your favour if you have taken careful note of what is happening. An example of this may be if your builder said he will finish the plumbing by April and he has not done so, take a note of exactly what he said, when he said it, etc.. Detail the times and dates of all the work he had done....i.e. He may have done two days work on electrical fittings in March, and then done nothing else or the rest of the month, he may have done soem other work in April and then done nothing else or the rest of that month, etc. Record this. It will show that the builder is being very When a person can produce details at an arbitration, it is very persuasive.


Hope this helps a small bit. (We won the first arbitration)


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## One (26 May 2008)

*Re: Has anyone ever gone down the road of arbitration over propety purchase?*

P.S. I didn't have to go to arbitration the second time (on the different house), as the builder went bankrupt.


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## homeowner (27 May 2008)

When I bought my apartment 5 years ago there was a serious problem which the builder refused outright to fix.  I refused to close.  After several months of stonewalling from builder and notices to close the deal or else face penalties and interest, I decided to go to arbitration to get out of contract and get my deposit back.  My solicitor wrote to the building company advising of filing for arbitration and then we went on hols for 2 weeks and didnt answer the phone.  When we came back there were 10 missed phone calls from the builder, he met us on site the next day with our solicitor and under took to fix the problem.  We closed within a month.

Sometimes the threat of arbitration is all it takes to get things done.


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## roytheboyo (27 May 2008)

Hi,
I am an arbitrator, i am not a lawyer, i am an engineer with law qualifications.  The cost is nowhere near 400 per hour, it is usual to fix the costs before the arbitration procedure, as a genuine pre-estimate of the amount of time required.  Fees are usually 1k to 2k.  Lawyers do not need to attend the arbitration hearing (if there is one, it can be done by exchange of documents only), only the parties should attend, although they can bring legal representatives if desired.  Some of the info above is misleading, i think it is a quick, final, cheap resolution and benefits both parties.


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## Saudi (27 May 2008)

I'm sorry but Roytheboyo are you for real?

It is very unusual to fix the cost of the arbitration prior to the arbitration proceeding.  It is also unwise to say there is no need for legal reprentation for a dispute.  It totally depends on the matter in dispute.  

To be honest from your description you seem to be referring to a holiday dispute and are not taking in to consideration the original posters query which relates to the purchase of a house which is taking longer than contracted for.

As previously indicated by many posters Foxylady should take legal advice on this matter.


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## foxylady (28 May 2008)

Saudi said:


> I'm sorry but Roytheboyo are you for real?
> 
> It is very unusual to fix the cost of the arbitration prior to the arbitration proceeding. It is also unwise to say there is no need for legal reprentation for a dispute. It totally depends on the matter in dispute.
> 
> ...


 

I have been taking legal advice but to be honest solicitor is not exactly killing himself trying to resolve things


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