# Stopped for no Road Tax



## Franco7 (23 May 2019)

Hi,

Today I was stopped in Dublin City by chance by Gardaí on patrol that happened to be crossing the road and got a summons for tax that is out since 2017 and I even had it declared off the road, reason being because this was the backup if my wife’s car (primary) give trouble and trouble it did in April which forced us to my car.
The Garda touched on the valid NCT pointing that  I had obviously driven it then to test it which he’s right and again it was temp due to the primary car being out.
It’s safe to say this has caught up with me because just two weeks ago I received a fixed charge from be by a traffic warden in a free car park so a double whammy if you like.
Thankfully he didn’t impound the car since I had the wife and kids in the back and maybe that’s why plus not being from the area at that.
Ok am not here looking for sympathies and am sure anyone reading this would be thinking you would have learnt your lesson by now but giving an account of what I just said what do you reckon will happen when I go to court as I have never being in this situation before, am paranoid to think what sort of fine I will be hit with and if the judge would take my circumstances into consideration at this time with finances etc?


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## mathepac (24 May 2019)

If (once) summonses are served you will need a solicitor. You will almost certainly get points on your licence and a fine.


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## Leper (24 May 2019)

1. You don't need a solicitor. Go to court and plead you case. You probably will be fined and perhaps get a couple of penalty points. Consider youself lucky if it only a fine you get.
2. You were caught driving a car with no road tax. Tough - most of us pay road tax. Your "back-up car" excuse is just that, an excuse.


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## Andrew Murphy (24 May 2019)

If you skipped paying the road tax it is likely you skipped the insurance too. Hopefully you will learn from whatever the outcome is as you not only endangered your wife and kids but other road users too.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2019)

Hi Franco

Had you a valid insurance disc? I presume you had, or the Garda should have impounded the car.

But you have been driving it since April without paying tax?

Brendan


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Thanks lads, so the judge can give you points on your license for any road offence solely depending on himself/herself?


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Andrew Murphy said:


> If you skipped paying the road tax it is likely you skipped the insurance too. Hopefully you will learn from whatever the outcome is as you not only endangered your wife and kids but other road users too.



No no I was covered with everything else.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2019)

Franco7 said:


> the judge can give you points on your license for any road offence solely depending on himself/herself?



Yes, it's a crazy system.

You should have got points automatically and a fine equal to twice the annual road tax. 

There should be no need for the waste of the state's time and money in going to court.

Brendan


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## michaelm (24 May 2019)

mathepac said:


> You will almost certainly get points on your licence and a fine.


Really?  Can you get points for non display of Tax?  I thought penalty points could only be issued in relation to safety . . anything else weakens a points system which should be solely about road safety.





Brendan Burgess said:


> Yes, it's a crazy system.


I think the whole collection, checking and enforcement of road tax is crazy.  Just add it to fuel costs and allow hauliers and farmers some kind of rebate.  Save Garda and Court time, and it becomes difficult to avoid.


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## Palerider (24 May 2019)

there are no excuses, I see so many out of date taxed cars when Im out walking, you are lucky the car was not seized, it should have been.


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## Feemar5 (24 May 2019)

Penalty points for non payment of motor tax is not listed on the RSA website but points for not having insurance and NCT are listed.


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## mathepac (24 May 2019)

michaelm said:


> Really?  Can you get points for non display of Tax?  I thought penalty points could only be issued in relation to safety . . anything else weakens a points system which should be solely about road safety.


Yes, really. It's not just a non-display offence. OP signed a form declaring his vehicle off road and then used it while the declaration was in force. There was no tax disc and the vehicle was untaxed at the time of detection. That's three offences so far, and the most serious offence, which supercedes any safety considerations,  is apparently attempting to deprive the State of revenue through a false declaration.

In the OP's position, I'd immediately pay all retrospective motor tax and declare the car back on the road in preparation for his appearance in court. 



michaelm said:


> I think the whole collection, checking and enforcement of road tax is crazy.  Just add it to fuel costs and allow hauliers and farmers some kind of rebate.  Save Garda and Court time, and it becomes difficult to avoid.


Jobs for public service boys and girls, sure what would they be doing otherwise?

Adding motor tax to the cost of fuel might just increase the demand for smuggled/illegal fuel.


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## peemac (24 May 2019)

If you regularise the tax immediately and bring the back tax receipt with you and proof that it is currently taxed, and this was a first offence. You will be dealt with leniently.  
Obviously it should have been taxed, but bring all info with you including details of issues with main car and you'll be ok. You may be lucky and get off completely or you may get a fine of about €200.

If you pay back tax and current tax immediately, (as in today or Monday) the garda that stopped you MAY not issue the summons.

But as others said, VERY luck car wasn't taken on the spot. (tow and storage fees would apply + proof of back tax paid)


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Palerider said:


> there are no excuses, I see so many out of date taxed cars when Im out walking, you are lucky the car was not seized, it should have been.



You need to get out more it would seem?


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Bizarre how some people (founder included) are not up to speed regarding the whole penalty point system, which in this case points are not issued for such an offence as the  majority of posters clearly illustrated.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2019)

Franco7 said:


> Bizarre how some people (founder included) are not up to speed regarding the whole penalty point system



I claim little knowledge of the penalty point system.

I just expressed an opinion that tax defaulters like you should get penalty points and fines automatically to stop wasting the time and money of the state. 

Brendan


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## Dermot (24 May 2019)

No penalty points for No Tax but it could have been impouded with all the associated costs.  You will need to pay back motor tax for the period that the car was genuinely off the road.  Back up car will not cut the mustard without it being fully compliant even for temporary use.  Go to your local motor tax office and regularise the matter immediately.  Turn up in court with all your documentation with your documentation and plead your case yourself


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Dermot said:


> No penalty points for No Tax but it could have been impouded with all the associated costs.  You will need to pay back motor tax for the period that the car was genuinely off the road.  Back up car will not cut the mustard without it being fully compliant even for temporary use.  Go to your local motor tax office and regularise the matter immediately.  Turn up in court with all your documentation with your documentation and plead your case yourself



Yep will have to try and make it up someway by the time I appear, I could have saved myself from all of this by just putting it back on the road for 3 mths even if I let it expire again but the fact it’s 2017 no complaints you live and learn I guess.


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## elcato (24 May 2019)

Franco7 said:


> Bizarre how some people (founder included) are not up to speed regarding the whole penalty point system,


Why should the founder or anyone here know this ? The clue is in the name of the site .....


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

Well he clearly said ‘yes’ to what I was asking so what does that mean to you otherwise he was confusing the situation on how he answered me?


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## SparkRite (24 May 2019)

mathepac said:


> If (once) summonses are served you will need a solicitor. *You will almost certainly get points on your licence* and a fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suspect you mistaken here @mathepac , AFAIK and following some research, in concurrence with other posters it appears there is no process in place for penalty points to be awarded for the alleged offence(s) stated in the OP.

Penalty points, as I'm sure you know, are for breaches pertinent to road safety and while you may opine that the OP's offences 'supercede any safety considerations', it does not follow that penalty points will be incurred.    

Good advice has been given here in that the OP should, as soon as possible,  tax the car and pay all back tax due as well.
I know the OP said he has been summonsed already, but I very much doubt that, more than likely the guard took details and informed him that he would be reported with intention to prosecute. Wait and see if a summons or a fixed penalty arrive, but in the mean time get the tax in order.


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## mathepac (24 May 2019)

I looked on the RSA site and got the penalty points document and agree I was mistaken in thinking that misusing the off-road declaration attracted points according to the 3 year old PDF. Sorry if I misled anyone.

It seems I'm not the only one confused by the rules surrounding the off-road declaration.  The two exceptions to the declaration rules are taking a car to or from an NCT centre or taking it to or from an appointment with a repairer having failed a test. The Guard who stopped the OP didn't seem to understand that either.


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## Franco7 (24 May 2019)

mathepac said:


> I looked on the RSA site and got the penalty points document and agree I was mistaken in thinking that misusing the off-road declaration attracted points according to the 3 year old PDF. Sorry if I misled anyone.
> 
> It seems I'm not the only one confused by the rules surrounding the off-road declaration.  The two exceptions to the declaration rules are taking a car to or from an NCT centre or taking it to or from an appointment with a repairer having failed a test. The Guard who stopped the OP didn't seem to understand that either.


That’s right because I had a valid NCT which proves that I indeed had the car on the road at a time I had declared it off and not just this time.


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## Palerider (24 May 2019)

Franco7 said:


> You need to get out more it would seem?



Shame the Garda did not seize your untaxed car, you would still have your Court appearance and points on your licence for your untaxed car, untaxed since 2017.

And you don't get a summons from the Garda who has just stopped you in recent days according to your post....you get a ticket, Court follows if that ticket remains unpaid or disputed.

Spin a better yarn if it goes to Court, if you got a ticket pay it and tax your car if using it in a public place.


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