# Rent a Room- who to contact re problem tenant



## Broadcaster (6 Sep 2018)

A very close friend has rented a room in her home to a lady and her young daughter. One of her conditions was that no pets are allowed and no business can be carried on in her house.  However, as the room is a larger than the norm with an ensuite and a side sittingroom with cooking facilites, it is self-contained. 

The tenant/lodger has now taken in two cats and is also minding two children who come to the house at 6.30 in the morning!!  Needless to say my friend is not happy with this situation and has given the tenant 3 months notice which is up next week.  Unfortunately, the tenant is now threatening not to move and has been very abusive.  Does anyone know if there is an organisation for people who find themselves in this position.  I am not thinking about Tenancy Board  but some organisation for Rent a room people. My friend's solicitor has already issue a legal letter informing the tenant that she must move but the tenant tore it up!! 

I'm concerned for my friend who lives alone otherwise and has a serious heart condition.


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## T McGibney (6 Sep 2018)

She needs to go back to her solicitor.  As the person is a licensee, not a tenant, the Tenancies Board thankfully have no input here.


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## RedOnion (6 Sep 2018)

T McGibney said:


> As the person is a licensee, not a tenant, the Tenancies Board thankfully have no input here.



Normally correct, but the following might change that:



Broadcaster said:


> it is self-contained.



That's the first thing to clear up.


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## Setanta12 (6 Sep 2018)

Another letter from the solicitor with a moving-out date; then when she has left the house to go shopping etc (if she hasn't already moved out), have the locksmith to change locks - and then throw everything out onto street.

No other way IMHO .. ..


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## T McGibney (6 Sep 2018)

RedOnion said:


> _it is self-contained._
> 
> That's the first thing to clear up.


Didn't see that. Important point. Well spotted.


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## Broadcaster (6 Sep 2018)

Hi
RedOnion do you mean that because is it more than just one room this would make her ineligible for the rent-a-room relief!  Either way, she still needs to get the tenant out. Another friend did advise what Setanta12 suggested i.e. change the locks but she is reluctant to see a mother and daughter on the street! However, that may be her only option. She is totally stressed out at this stage and is beginning to be fearful of the tenant who is intent on making her life hell.  Dreadful how tenants can get away with this.

Is there a Homeowners association that can advise on situations such as this?


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## RedOnion (6 Sep 2018)

Broadcaster said:


> RedOnion do you mean that because is it more than just one room this would make her ineligible for the rent-a-room relief!


No, it could still meet the tax criteria for relief, but be caught up in tenancy legislation, unless your friend opted out prior to tenancy start.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...me/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html#l193c5


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## Broadcaster (6 Sep 2018)

As far as I know her solicitor advised her initially when renting to opt out of this.  Not 100% sure about that but I do know she availed of the rent-a-room allowance.


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## LS400 (6 Sep 2018)

Hang on, this is no more rent a room than the man in the moon..

On suite, yes, What rent a room comes with kitchen facilities and sitting rooms, pure skirting the realism of letting a self contained apt.

Change the locks?? Crazy, and as for the solicitor advising this in no more than a rent a room, crazy advise again!!


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## mugsymugsy (6 Sep 2018)

If and a big If it is a rent a room and therefore the are licencees then state to them clearly via solicitor if required that they are to vacate by x date. Ontce thisdate passes they are trespassing and the gardai should be called. Have a locksmith ready to change locks and turf them out. No ifs or buts.


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## Bronte (7 Sep 2018)

LS400 said:


> Hang on, this is no more rent a room than the man in the moon..
> 
> On suite, yes, What rent a room comes with kitchen facilities and sitting rooms, pure skirting the realism of letting a self contained apt.
> 
> Change the locks?? Crazy, and as for the solicitor advising this in no more than a rent a room, crazy advise again!!


You're incorrect. It is not relevant that it has a separate kitchen or sitting room.  What is relevent is if it is part of the property.  I have a converted garage to one of my properties. If I lived in the house it would be eligible for rent a room scheme.

A grandmother of mine used to have a bedsit, she converted a couple of bedrooms with cooking and seating facilities etc. 

There are many houses that have granny flats, complete with separate entrances, kitchens and sitting rooms. 

What you cannot rent is a separate building such as a garden chalet. 

Really the key would be could you legally separate the title of it, that's if it came down to it with revenue.  Interestingly for NPPR each 'unit' was treated separately, even if it were one property.


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## Bronte (7 Sep 2018)

Because this is not a tenancy, doesn't that mean the OP can evict and the PRTB can do nothing to her.  That's my understanding of the matter. And if the tenant calls the Gardai, the Gardai will tell her it's a civil matter.


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## mugsymugsy (7 Sep 2018)

It's not civil if someone is in a homeowners without permission which if they are a licensee then this is what they are. If it was civil then I could in theory just randomly turn up in your house and refuse to leave. Obviously that's extreme example but in reality licensees have little if almost no protection.


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## mugsymugsy (7 Sep 2018)

Apologies I read your reply incorrectly. Though my point stands it's not civil if the licencee thinks they have rights to enter the property without the homeowners permission.


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## Broadcaster (7 Sep 2018)

Just to clarify, the room/ensuite is part of her main home. In other words both she and the lodger/tenant(?) have to use the same front door so I guess she can avail of the rent a room option. It's not a separate unit.


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## mugsymugsy (7 Sep 2018)

Then turf them out whenever the homeowner likes they are guests in her home who are paying. By giving notice she is being polite and courteous but beyond that she owes them nothing bar returning a deposit if appropriate.


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## cremeegg (7 Sep 2018)

Some very confused and confusing comments on here.



Broadcaster said:


> As far as I know her solicitor advised her initially when renting to opt out of this.  Not 100% sure about that but I do know she availed of the rent-a-room allowance.



If the solicitor really advised this then they are an idiot. You cannot opt out of or into anything here.



1. The first question is wether the "renter" is a tenant or a licensee. This has nothing much to do with rent a room, which is a tax matter.

2. Of course we are not in a position to say for sure which it is tenant or licensee. It is basically for the house owner to decide and for the renter to challenge that if they wish. If they are sharing the owners home then they are a licensee.


If a licensee, the house owner can evict without notice, give them a reasonable notice just to be reasonable, then change the locks and call the guards.



Broadcaster said:


> she is reluctant to see a mother and daughter on the street!



More foolishness. Either she wants them out or she does not.


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## JPSaltee (13 Sep 2018)

I would also point out that many household insurance policies require that no commercial business is carried on at the house - can child minding be consider a commercial business? The household insurance policy could now be invalid with no cover for any claims of any type.
What tax is the "lodger" paying on the funds she is earning?
Is the premises safe to mind children in?
Perhaps the owner could advise Gardai that she is in fear for her personal safety?
Did she lay out the terms in writing of the "lodging" that she can refer to?
Does the owner have sole access to the electricty board/ gas board & could the supply to the relevant part of the house be stopped on the notice date?

Personally after the notice date as per the solicitors letter I would change the locks & put out all belongings with multiple copies of the notice letter.


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## Leo (13 Sep 2018)

Bronte said:


> There are many houses that have granny flats, complete with separate entrances, kitchens and sitting rooms.



In the vast majority of such cases where planning was obtained (as it should be), the conditions attached specifically prohibit the leasing of such a unit, or even their occupation by anyone who is not a direct family member. Once the original need no longer exists for the unit, the conditions also state that the unit must be joined back into the main house.


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## Sandals (15 Sep 2018)

Childminding is a business, one should register as self employed with revenue and claim tax exemption if earnings under 15k...yet, 90% of childminding is black market and uninsured. However any homeowner is running a huge risk as home insurance policy is indeed invalid if found childminding on the property, never mind the risk of a claim. Home insurance can cover up to three kids if declared.

Be up for 6.30am Monday morning and tell this parent the children aren't insured on the property and you'll call the Gardai if they don't leave. The tenant will soon move on, if childminding is her income.


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## WizardDr (27 Sep 2018)

District Court as you can file a complaint under Petty Sessions Act 1851


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## Broadcaster (4 Oct 2018)

Just as an update on this, the tenant is now looking for somewhere else to rent and has informed my friend that an estate agent will be in contact with her!  Obviously, this lodger wants my friend to give a good account of her.  I've advised her not to go down that route given the trouble this lodger has caused.  However, my friend believes this is her chance to get rid of her for good!  

My friend was also advised to put up a security camera pointing towards the front door so that she can see if this lodger is still bringing in children and the pets when my friend is not there.  Does anyone know if there are particular rules around having a security camera on her house.  She has every intention of telling the tenant that she would be installing this but is concerned about the data protection act.  Would she need to put a notice up that she has installed the camera?


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## mugsymugsy (4 Oct 2018)

She has no rights she is a guest. If she doesn't like it tough luck and suck it up or....move out.

Seriously your friend should give them person two weeks and then have black bags ready and a locksmith to change the keys.


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