# Overwhelmed by size of Debt- Please advise



## Finance1

HI, 
The background is my husband liquidated 2 different companies about 7 years ago  and from that came bank debt( from personal Guarantee ) and revenue debt. He then became a sole trader and more revenue debt followed. I am his wife , was a director in the companies , had no involvement and took no salary.I am  a paye worker.  All the revenue debt is in my name solely as i was the assessable spouse. I did ask him to change this to his name a number of years ago but he did not want anything flagging with the revenue. 
For the last number of years i have struggled financially and mentally trying to keep paying this debt. Currently we owe approx 83k to revenue and 84k unsecured( in both names) to a bank. I am on a phased arrangment for the revenue debt for the next 10 years ( 700 month) and for the bank loan i am only currently paying less than half the agreed monthly amount. The bank have not contacted me yet re the reduced payment, There is also the 2018 revenue bill of 21k outstanding. Also with the revenue solicitor 8k outstanding. 
I work full time and have 3 children under the age of 12. I received a redundancy about a year ago but this redundancy has funded a lot of everyday expense eg dental treatment for one of my children, house repairs, oil bills. All our savings amount to this ,25k.
My husband is now a Paye employee but has no pension at all ( age 52).
we have a mortgage of about 430k . This has always been paid as the DD comes out the day i get paid. 

I would genuinely appreciate any advise as i am totally alone with all this debt. My husband will not talk about it , gets stressed when i mention it.  I am very emotional and overwhelmed by the size of the debt and the burden of trying to pay everyone for the next 10 years. It is me who manages the finances or tries to. As you can appreciate it has put a huge strain on the marriage. 

Can anyone help me re my options 

Thanks


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## Saavy99

Finance 1, I'm very sorry to read your post and tremendous stress you are under.  I can only advise you to reach out to MABS, they will be in a position to advise you further. Please look after yourself and your family,


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## TLO

Hi Finance1

As Saav99 says these situations are tremendously stressful.  The good news is that people have been through even worse and come out the other side.  More information is probably needed in order for posters to make suggestions.  Suggest you use the below post as a template for information that is needed:






						Case study - Information required for mortgage arrears and negative equity questions
					

Please copy and paste this post into a new thread. If you give comprehensive information, it will maximise your chances of getting comprehensive and useful results.    Income details Net monthly  (i.e. after tax) Income self:                  nature of income e.g. self-employed/public servant...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				




Just paste it into this thread and answer the questions..


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## Futurelookin

Finance1 said:


> HI,
> The background is my husband liquidated 2 different companies about 7 years ago  and from that came bank debt( from personal Guarantee ) and revenue debt. He then became a sole trader and more revenue debt followed. I am his wife , was a director in the companies , had no involvement and took no salary.I am  a paye worker.  All the revenue debt is in my name solely as i was the assessable spouse. I did ask him to change this to his name a number of years ago but he did not want anything flagging with the revenue.
> For the last number of years i have struggled financially and mentally trying to keep paying this debt. Currently we owe approx 83k to revenue and 84k unsecured( in both names) to a bank. I am on a phased arrangment for the revenue debt for the next 10 years ( 700 month) and for the bank loan i am only currently paying less than half the agreed monthly amount. The bank have not contacted me yet re the reduced payment, There is also the 2018 revenue bill of 21k outstanding. Also with the revenue solicitor 8k outstanding.
> I work full time and have 3 children under the age of 12. I received a redundancy about a year ago but this redundancy has funded a lot of everyday expense eg dental treatment for one of my children, house repairs, oil bills. All our savings amount to this ,25k.
> My husband is now a Paye employee but has no pension at all ( age 52).
> we have a mortgage of about 430k . This has always been paid as the DD comes out the day i get paid.
> 
> I would genuinely appreciate any advise as i am totally alone with all this debt. My husband will not talk about it , gets stressed when i mention it.  I am very emotional and overwhelmed by the size of the debt and the burden of trying to pay everyone for the next 10 years. It is me who manages the finances or tries to. As you can appreciate it has put a huge strain on the marriage.
> 
> Can anyone help me re my options
> 
> Thanks



Hello Finance 1.
What a horrible situation for you and especially to be essentially handling it alone  without support or communication from your husband. There are options. Revenue debt is handled differently than other debt but with that caveat, it may be possible for your husband to declare bankruptcy and for you to buy out his half of the house. (I don't know if there is equity in the property)You should look at a Personal Insolvency arrangement as an alternative. Contact IMHO straight away (Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation). They'll give you free advice and assess your situation. You need to make the whole situation more manageable and not be simply kicking the can down the road. Once you have a clear plan and time line a lot  of the pressure will lift. I've been through the process and it is life changing. Start with the IMHO and persevere. 
Good luck.


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## Fidgety

I too, am so sorry that you have to endure this stress and worry while trying to raise a family and live your life. Thankfully, there are options available to you both and in particular, as pointed out, MABS are very helpful in such circumstances. In addition, this forum is full of brilliant people who selflessly offer advice, encouragement and expertise on all manner of matters.

On a personal note, the reaction of your husband to this difficulty is not unusual,I have an Uncle who came within an inch of losing the family farm because he couldn’t handle the stress. He retreated from the world because he couldn’t cope and felt an undeserved sense of shame. It’s a very tough issue to deal with on top of the normalcy of life. You’ve done a great job keeping everything together and are to be admired. 

This can be resolved and will be. 

And remember, you are both dealing with a very stressful matter and need to keep going to find a resolution.


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## Mrs Vimes

My sympathies on your predicament. As others have suggested, MABS will be able to help you. I would also suggest a trip to the GP for both of you, it sounds like your husband is also very stressed but is dealing with it by not dealing with it and leaving it to you. This could be a sign of depression/anxiety. GP should be able to help.


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## Monbretia

Hate to be a bit of a downer but unless MABS have changed their rules they did not deal with any commercial debt, now worth a try but don't be disappointed if that is their rule, try them first and even if they can't help they may be able to point you in the right direction for another adivsor.


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## elcato

You need to fill in the form as suggested by TLO above. That way some of the PIPs might be able to help. You say the bank debt is unsecured. I'd stop paying this straight away but be prepared to be bombarded with phone calls which should be answered by telling them to put everything in writing, and letters which may sound threatening but in due course that is all they are, just threats. Ring revenue and ask them for more time and explain your situation.


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## Fidgety

Finance 1, hope you're doing alright. Please take TLO and elcato's advice and complete the template. This information will help others here suggest options. Great people with smart minds and good ideas post here. Help them to help you.


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## Jim Stafford

As other posters have suggested, MABS can be a useful first port of call.  If MABS feel that you need to see a PIP (and I believe you will need to see a PIP) then they may give you a voucher of €500 + VAT to see a PIP under the Abhaile Scheme to obtain expert advice.

it is very unfortunate that the recent changes implemented to the Abhaile Scheme has seen the number of PIPs participating in the scheme being reduced from 71 PIPs as at 24 January 2020 to just 34 PIPs today. At a time when AIB and Bank of Ireland have flagged that they will now start selling more family home mortgages the Government should be encouraging more PIPs to join the scheme, and not discouraging them. The recent changes make the scheme even more unviable for many PIPs.

Jim Stafford


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## Finance1

Thank you very much for your replies.Yes I am going to contact a PIP and see  what they suggest. 

just in relation to dealing with the Revenue,I rang them when the tax bill came in. I am currently on a phased arrangement. After been through 3  different people i was told very abruptly that i was already on a phased arrangement and nothing could be done. I am not sure if people on this site have dealt with the revenue but they are the mos difficult and nasty people to deal with. When i was o the phone i broke down and tried to explain my story. I totally understand this debt is owned but they dont care. i previously sent a letter a couple of years ago explaining the level of stress i was under but nothing changed in their dealing with me. 
if anyone has had revenue debt written down can you please let me know and did the case end up in the court. All the revenue debt is in my name and i find it very difficult as it was the decisions of my husband solely that has caused this to happen. i am a professional working fulll time but he made those decisions that has huge consequences for myself and my family.


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## seamus m

This mightn't be wisest advice but you can of course just stop paying revenue they will then proceed  with sherrif who upon discovering little to take will seek judgement against you for said amount .I don't know where it goes from there I have similar amount against me from 6 years ago.


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## sadie

Sorry this has happened to you. You have done nothing wrong. 
It is a burden enough being a mother of 3 children, working and keeping the whole show on the road. Trying to be Mammy to everyone and pretending everything is fine in front of the kids day in and day out. Having to tiptoe around very sensitive husband who gets stressed and then you are to blame for stressing him by wanting to talk about it. Meanwhile, who supports you and is mindful of your stress and the impact on you?
There is a very separate issue of the psychological burden on yourself. This is other part of Debt management.
I would suggest counselling for yourself. Have you an EAP employee assistance policy at work that provides counselling support? Otherwise, look for low cost services in your area, you can ask for a lower fee, whatever you can afford. 
A MABS meeting, at the very least, would mean the issue is voiced aloud in front of a third party and your husband cannot avoid hearing that.


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## Shinynails

Finance1

My story has some similarity to yours in that my husband liquidated a company which left us with significant debt owed through a personal guarantee. Also have 3 kids but I left my job (with his full support) to care for them 6 months before his company went bust. I was completely in the dark and blindsided by what happened.

His finances were in a terrible state and he honestly thought he would get another break and I would never have to know.
But his house of cards came down and now I am faced with debt from a situation that I did not create. I had savings etc and that helped but ultimately we needed a PIP to negotiate for us. I can recommend him to you in dm if you want. He has been fantastic.

Regarding my husband, he has an unrealistic outlook on money it is impossible to have a constructive conversation around finances with him. I feel like a total fool that I did not see this coming and that I believed all his lies for years. The risks he took with the family finances have floored me and we end up arguing about it when ever it's brought up.

So what do I do.... I engaged with a PIP and that has been a godsend. I realise that I must now and forever oversee all our finances. We are struggling for sure And our lifestyle has completely changed but we have a plan and a solution now and that is a lifeline. There is a better solution for your situation too I promise you. Have you looked at www.backontrack.ie

Re our relationship;  the level of betrayal is so hard to come to terms and very difficult. But we have 3 kids under 12 also and they are my priority. He's not a bad man or person by any means but he has made some very poor decisions and disregarded the impact they would have on me and the kids and I am struggling with that. We have lost a lot. So yes we should get professional help for the sake of our marriage at some stage. 
But you can only do one thing at a time. Seek advice on the debt first. Make the calls, schedule appointments, invite your husband to be part of it and hopefully he'll take the advice. In the event he does not want to engage, fire on ahead yourself. Knowledge is power and I'm sure there is a better solution for you right now,

 Dm me if you need to


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## Fidgety

Well done Shinynails. That took courage and guts to get out in front of the problem to try and resolve it. And you sound confident and determined, despite the difficulties, in getting it resolved properly.


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## RichInSpirit

Hi Finance1. Feel for your situation.
I ran a more or less failed business for years longer than I should have and ended up with huge debts including owing money to Revenue.
Working PAYE since for a number of years and very gradually getting back on track.
Finally cleared the Revenue Debt last year after various periods of paying them something, not paying them, dealing with their solicitors, ignoring their solicitors and so on.
Overpaying my highest interest bank loan at the moment and hope to clear that this year.
Then only 2 more loans to go. Still in 6 figure territory though! But the number of creditors is decreasing. And the future is beginning to look bright again!
Looked at bankruptcy at a stage but didn't go that route because of circumstances of other people close by at the time.

From your first post you come across to me as a brilliant manager and money manager as things stand and a very strong person.
I'd suggest that you do all the money management for your family. Get your husband to give you his pay packet and pay him a small allowance if he needs it.
If you pay big childcare costs at the moment it might even be more beneficial financially to get your husband to be a stay at home dad. Do school runs etc.
Micro manage your finances, transport and running a car (or cars) is one area where you could make savings. Food, clothes, lifestyle is another area. I heard a woman talking recently on the radio spending 20K less per annum by micro managing the money.
I think involve your children in being thrifty. It will give them a good financial education for their lives.


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## Leper

I've just read the posts by Finance1,Shinynails and RichinSpirit. To be honest I am devastated with what all of you must face after what's happened. I have no solutions. I have no doubt many are in this situation. The worst part for me is that the male of the species failed to come to grips with his spouse or in other words lived the lie to somebody with whom they should have been totally honest. For once, I don't know what to say.


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## Shinynails

Leper said:


> I've just read the posts by Finance1,Shinynails and RichinSpirit. To be honest I am devastated with what all of you must face after what's happened. I have no solutions. I have no doubt many are in this situation. The worst part for me is that the male of the species failed to come to grips with his spouse or in other words lived the lie to somebody with whom they should have been totally honest. For once, I don't know what to say.



Yep it's awful. There is a lot of emotional upheaval. But once the shock dies down it's important to have an action plan and focus on what you can do.

Adressing the  debt with professional guidance is a priority. There are options and no matter how bad the financial situation there is a solution.

Acceptance - accept your situation, the flaws in your partner - recognise what  you cannot change and accept what is. That does not mean you are ok with it or agree.
Stress and anxiety are fuelled by wanting a situation to be different. So be aware of the narrative and self talk running through your mind and let that go.
We can only deal with the now and what is in front of us.

I am in awe of how well Finance1 has dealt with the amount of debt and unhelpful communication with revenue and agree with Richinspirit that she is an impressive money manager and strong person.


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## Leper

The thrust of this topic has remained in my mid and I am a little confused. Three people (understatement) have suffered mainly through the efforts of their spouse running their respective business.  I accept not all businesses will profit. But, there is a common denominator with the three spouses here - that is the "debt" to Inland Revenue. 

I hear Revenue imposes penalties on arrears to be collected (@ 8% ?).  My question is:- How can you pay tax on losses as is the case with the three people here? I know I am having a "Lt Columbo" moment but the thoughts are flitting through my mind.

With respect:- 
(i)   Has Revenue been over zealous in their collecting here? Are they entitled to all the money "owed?"
(ii)  Did the company advisors fall down on the job? 
(iii) Have I missed something? Am I opening a can of worms?


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## Finance1

Finance1 said:


> HI,
> The background is my husband liquidated 2 different companies about 7 years ago  and from that came bank debt( from personal Guarantee ) and revenue debt. He then became a sole trader and more revenue debt followed. I am his wife , was a director in the companies , had no involvement and took no salary.I am  a paye worker.  All the revenue debt is in my name solely as i was the assessable spouse. I did ask him to change this to his name a number of years ago but he did not want anything flagging with the revenue.
> For the last number of years i have struggled financially and mentally trying to keep paying this debt. Currently we owe approx 83k to revenue and 84k unsecured( in both names) to a bank. I am on a phased arrangment for the revenue debt for the next 10 years ( 700 month) and for the bank loan i am only currently paying less than half the agreed monthly amount. The bank have not contacted me yet re the reduced payment, There is also the 2018 revenue bill of 21k outstanding. Also with the revenue solicitor 8k outstanding.
> I work full time and have 3 children under the age of 12. I received a redundancy about a year ago but this redundancy has funded a lot of everyday expense eg dental treatment for one of my children, house repairs, oil bills. All our savings amount to this ,25k.
> My husband is now a Paye employee but has no pension at all ( age 52).
> we have a mortgage of about 430k . This has always been paid as the DD comes out the day i get paid.
> 
> I would genuinely appreciate any advise as i am totally alone with all this debt. My husband will not talk about it , gets stressed when i mention it.  I am very emotional and overwhelmed by the size of the debt and the burden of trying to pay everyone for the next 10 years. It is me who manages the finances or tries to. As you can appreciate it has put a huge strain on the marriage.
> 
> Can anyone help me re my options
> 
> Thanks



Hi,

it has been nearly a year since i wrote my original post and for those interested this is my update. The year has had both ups and downs and once again i would like to hear your opinions:

1. I managed to negotiate a final settlement for an element of debt with revenue solrs. They agreed and that is cleared.
2. i have kept and also moved jobs and have a good salary. very grateful especially with Covid 19.
3. My husband has maintained the majority of income , small decrease with Covid so grateful too.
4, Have managed to keep on track with main revenue debt in the last year . Also relationship with husband has been good for the last number of months too.
BUT : here the downs
1. we went on holiday last year and needed a credit card for car rental. My husband applied and got limit of 8k. Obviously this was not needed and told him to reduce limit when he told me. this was never done.. As far a i know he has spent more or less the full limit , i found this out and he refused to answer any questions etc.. He has an expensive hobby and the money for this has never come from the joint accounts.
2. Also mentioned his banking app was working again. we have joint accounts in one bank and from conversation last week i asked him to show me his app and he has refused !!. I know he has credit card mentioned above and also sole account in the same bank . Now this is the man that has brought over 200k debt in to my life... Why did he refuse ?.
3. we have always had our finance joint since we married.
4. I also tried joint counselling over a year ago. I went on own first and the counsellor understood the level of debt etc as she is also qualified accoutant. We had one joint session and the counsellor asked him questions about the debt etc.. He refused to go to anymore..
So now, here I am not speaking to him as i dont think he is honest with me. He is trying to hold some conversation but no mention of showing me the app.
I would love people opinions to what should i do next ...


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## Bilbo1

Hi,
I'm very sorry you find yourself in your situation. I would say this is not a money problem but a relationship problem. You have joint finances with him, but he does not have joint finances with you. And he knew perfectly well why he was getting the 8K limit on the CC. 
From what you say, he's putting his hobby above the financial stability of his family. 
If he is refusing to attend counseling to try to save the marriage, what else is left to try? 
Maybe others with more experience in such cases can offer some advice


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## Mocame

I have a relative who had a serious alcohol addiction for many years and your husband's behaviour looks similar to me. Sadly a person with an addiction thinks mainly about themselves and not others. They also only change when they hit rock bottom and can see no other option. It strikes me that your husband has never had to face the consequences of his behaviour. You have been a real hero trying to keep the family finances together for the sake of the children.  However  that suits your husband just fine so why would he change?


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## Shinynails

Hi there Finance1, to echo another poster you really are a hero. Amazing achievement to have come so far in 12 months with that level of debt.


Finance1 said:


> Now this is the man that has brought over 200k debt in to my life... Why did he refuse ?.


You know why he refused. You are giving him the benefit of the doubt but he does not deserve that.

His actions are clearly telling you where his priorities and intentions lie.
His actions are still dishonest and risky.

This is a worry. I’m sorry to be so blunt but when my husband was fooling me I overlooked so many clues that in hindsight I wish I didn’t. Those clues were opportunities for me to dig deeper and confront what was happening. For lots of misguided reasons; I kept my head in the sand.

You have the choice to do something about his behavior or not. 
In 5 years where would ignoring his behavior potentially lead you and the kids....more than likely in a place you don’t want.

You deserve honesty, and if he is not behaving with integrity then why not, where are his values? 

You deserve more and you can’t make him behave differently but you do not have to accept dishonesty again.

Best of luck, stand strong in your power


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## Finance1

Bilbo1 said:


> Hi,
> I'm very sorry you find yourself in your situation. I would say this is not a money problem but a relationship problem. You have joint finances with him, but he does not have joint finances with you. And he knew perfectly well why he was getting the 8K limit on the CC.
> From what you say, he's putting his hobby above the financial stability of his family.
> If he is refusing to attend counseling to try to save the marriage, what else is left to try?
> Maybe others with more experience in such cases can offer some advice


Thanks so much for taking the time to reply .


Shinynails said:


> Hi there Finance1, to echo another poster you really are a hero. Amazing achievement to have come so far in 12 months with that level of debt.
> 
> You know why he refused. You are giving him the benefit of the doubt but he does not deserve that.
> 
> His actions are clearly telling you where his priorities and intentions lie.
> His actions are still dishonest and risky.
> 
> This is a worry. I’m sorry to be so blunt but when my husband was fooling me I overlooked so many clues that in hindsight I wish I didn’t. Those clues were opportunities for me to dig deeper and confront what was happening. For lots of misguided reasons; I kept my head in the sand.
> 
> You have the choice to do something about his behavior or not.
> In 5 years where would ignoring his behavior potentially lead you and the kids....more than likely in a place you don’t want.
> 
> You deserve honesty, and if he is not behaving with integrity then why not, where are his values?
> 
> You deserve more and you can’t make him behave differently but you do not have to accept dishonesty again.
> 
> Best of luck, stand strong in your power


hi thanks for taking the time to reply and to the other posters .. I find some days so hard as I feel I have taken one step forward in the relationship and now ten steps back. Money in my life is constant stress and worry due to level of debt he has gotten into . My salary each month goes into joint account where all bills are paid including his debt .. now clearly he has potentially a  sold account which I knew existed  but never saw a Bank statement and was told nothing in it . Also the explanation for cc was business expenses were put on it but balance as far as I know has not been cleared down . I have 3 amazing children and am doing everything for them but so hard when I feel is  not been honest. If there  was nothing to hide then show me the banking app ??..


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## Shinynails

You nailed it there when you said ‘you have taken one step forward’ however HE is not in step with you. You aren’t taking ten steps back but he may be dragging you backwards.  That is not your fault. He is accountable for his own actions he is acting very shady.

Is there anyone else, accountant/ bookkeeper that you can contact and ask for information? If not I would really consider legal advice and let him know you have no option as he won’t converse honestly with you. Not to go for seperation per say but to see where you stand considering how you have been implicated in his financial mid-dealings already. 

You don’t have anything to hide and you need answers. He is adding to your stress when you have been nothing but a saviour and solution to his problems.

I share your position as the wife of a good but financially stupid risk taking guy and mother to 3 children. The stress is enormous and nothing is the same. It’s very hard


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## Shinynails

Also, Finance1, what do you want? What is the ideal scenario for you? Obviously you want him to engage honestly with you. How likely is that to happen? Does he need to attend counselling again with you?...if he doesn't what then? 

Maybe you should engage back with a counsellor as you are looking for guidance and you could gain clarity through therapy? 

Sorry for throwing out questions and no need to answer them here but just wanted you to think about your needs.


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## AlbacoreA

Is there any advantage in forcing this to crisis. Stop putting your money in the joint account. Start putting it somewhere else. 

I don't know I'm just thinking out loud.


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## Zeus2020

He is taking advantage of you again if it was me I would get rid of him  life is too short you would be better off on your own with your own money and children  people like him don’t change as long as they have someone to fall back on to sort everything for then


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## Bronte

Finance1 said:


> My salary each month goes into joint account where all bills are paid including his debt .. now clearly he has potentially a  sold account which I knew existed  but never saw a Bank statement and was told nothing in it . Also the explanation for cc was business expenses were put on it but balance as far as I know has not been cleared down . I have 3 amazing children and am doing everything for them but so hard when I feel is  not been honest. If there  was nothing to hide then show me the banking app ??..


Is his hobby gambling, because that's what's screaming at me from your posts.  My husband has a Paddy Power account and he does his bets on the phone.  He doesn't have a gambling problem though.  

If his CC level is 8K and he keeps servicing that they are likely to increase his limit.  I have a SIL who runs up CC debt, drives my brother nuts so he every few years 'gift's her to pay them back and she runs it up again.  

Personally if this were me I'd not let a stone unturned to find out what is going on in his account.  Your husband is being very dishonest with you.


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## Northie

Hi Finance1 - 
You have come along way in a year - and as others have said you are a remarkable woman to get through what you have as well as working and raising a family. It may be easy to think that getting rid of him is the only next thing to do (I speak from experience when I say that just creates a whole other set of problems) - and that is a massive step which can stop you thinking about other small things you can do right now.

I don't know if you are still seeing a counsellor but if you're not consider going back. As you point out there is a huge amount of distrust in your relationship and you need a safe place to figure out exactly what your red line issues are.

Forget about the "joint finances" you don't have that if your husband wont share details of his account/CC with you, you need your own account. The joint account can stay for the household bills, debts etc but you need to be building up your own financial independence. It may only be 20 a month but start somewhere. A friend told me ages ago that you need to value yourself (ie "paying" yourself €20 a month) or no one will.

While I agree that he should be showing you his account details - what happens if he keeps refusing, you'll be stressed and beating yourself up over it. Work out what the family's monthly outgoing is and each of you are responsible for putting half (or whatever division makes sense) into the family account. You will be tempted to "cover" his portion - that's what you've been doing up till now - but at some point that has to stop. He needs to see that he's as responsible as you are to ensure your family is taken care of. Whether subconsciously or deliberately he has made you responsible for shouldering all the stress over this.

The hardest suggestion I have - for right now is to try and take the emotion out of it and trust me I know how hard that is. But in some ways as long as you are emotionally invested in "fixing" him you will always be taking one step forward to get dragged back 10 steps. In your head make it a business arrangement. You are partners in a business - "your family" and you both have monthly payments that must be made. Its not easy, you obviously have a sensible, reasonable head on your shoulders and put your family first - that makes it very difficult not to step in and want to see a problem fixed. Hence my suggestion on the counselling - you need to figure out for yourself what's worth fighting for and what needs to be let go of


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## AlbacoreA

You are facilitating his habits. Unless you stop, he has no reason to change. 
That is easy to say but not easy to do. Financially you are linked at the hip. 

I know married couples who didn't fall out with each other, but couldn't get past some practical issue. So separate and ultimately divorce  for that reason alone. This might be why people get divorced but ultimately get back together but not remarry, but retain their independence. 

You need a draw a line in the sand, and stick with it. Its the only path to financial independence.


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## Leper

"You need a draw a line in the sand, and stick with it. Its the only path to financial independence."
Probably the soundest advice you'll receive anywhere. Well said AlbacoreA. 
We gave that same advice to all our offspring as they grew older.


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## AlbacoreA

Its an incredibly tough situation.


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## dubdub123

After all that you've been through and how far you have come, he is going to drag you back into more and more debt. He clearly has no consideration for the impact to you (financially, mentally...) and also to your children.    You need to think ahead now and start to understand your options.  Would you consider speaking to a solicitor just to understand where you might stand?   Basically though if you are living in a family home, you both have the right to reside so he would not necessarily have to go. 
I think he's taking complete advantage of you and he's not being honest or supportive.   Don't him in an ultimatum but instead try and find out your options. separation/divorce is not an easy road but you would have some control back in your life and perhaps could rest a bit easy knowing that you are on the way to securing some sort of a future for yourself and children.   What an awful situation for you.


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## Finance1

once again thanks so much for all the people who took time to post .. it honestly means a lot to me .. I think I posted originally to see if there were other women like myself who became directors of their husbands company and ended up like me .
1. Some people have suggested me keeping my salary separate and only paying half of bills. The reason that I have not done this is because I manage all the finances . He does lodge his salary into the joint account each month but as u can appreciate the finances are tight each month paying everything. Also he has no pension no savings and I worry when there is no accountability from him how badly will his finances be in 5 or 10 years . 
2. I did threaten separation last year . I found out there was money on CC and rang a solicitor. The revenue debt is in my name so even if I separate I don’t walk away from debt . The solicitor told me I could stop paying and through the court challenge it’s not my debt . I don’t have money to challenge that .. 
3. I decided then to try and work at marriage and said nothing more of Cc . It does not go away, always in my mind .. more debt . But once again I am back here again. 
4 . Regarding the counselling not a hope of him going and the reason is she was asking all the right questions which he did not want to answer. He never wants to be accountable.. 
I am far from perfect but am a very good mother who is working full time and puts myself last . My husband on the other hand does not seem to understand that he solely brought the debt into my life but expect that he can continue and has done his expensive hobbies even though we can’t afford to at this time .. hence not letting me see the banking app. 
Apologies for long post but feeling a lot of hurt and pain at the way I have and am being treated.. Thanks again..


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## Shinynails

You are really hurting and it does not seem fair at all. Thank you for sharing, it is a painful place to be in.

I was similar to you in that I was left to settle a PG from my husband’s liquidated company. We lost a lot even friends .  He made bad company decisions and hid so much from me before it imploded. I had to find out myself like you ...firstly, become suspicious, being fed tales, being stonewalled and eventually I made calls and confronted him with evidence. It was desperate. 
 However in order for our marriage to continue new baselines were agreed and I had to see him genuinely address his behaviour and change his ways.

The hurt from financial betrayal is terrible. You are right to feel so much pain


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## Finance1

Shinynails said:


> You are really hurting and it does not seem fair at all. Thank you for sharing, it is a painful place to be in.
> 
> I was similar to you in that I was left to settle a PG from my husband’s liquidated company. We lost a lot even friends .  He made bad company decisions and hid so much from me before it imploded. I had to find out myself like you ...firstly, become suspicious, being fed tales, being stonewalled and eventually I made calls and confronted him with evidence. It was desperate.
> However in order for our marriage to continue new baselines were agreed and I had to see him genuinely address his behaviour and change his ways.
> 
> The hurt from financial betrayal is terrible. You are right to feel so much pain


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## Finance1

Thanks so much Shinynails. You clearly have gone through so much yourself!!..Can I ask do u trust your husband with money now ??.. How did you manage to get through it ??.


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## Shinynails

Honestly no, I do not trust him with money.  
I trust even less that he will resist falling back into the same way of thinking that led to his mistakes.
So I manage all the money now. He hands it all over. It’s transparent he can see what I do with it. I returned to work. My career break to spend time with the kids was the worst period of my life facing bankruptcy etc. Panicking that I had left a good job frantically trying to secure another feeling like such a fool. That precious time we both agreed I’d have at home with the kids he robbed from me too.
Getting through it and learning to forgive, accepting what is, moving forward takes time and acceptance was key. I had to just let go of what was lost and be present. He genuinely is doing the best he can to make amends. That is important to me too.

It is a really lonely place to be too. So reach out to either a really solid buddy or a therapist x


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## Finance1

Shinynails said:


> Honestly no, I do not trust him with money.
> I trust even less that he will resist falling back into the same way of thinking that led to his mistakes.
> So I manage all the money now. He hands it all over. It’s transparent he can see what I do with it. I returned to work. My career break to spend time with the kids was the worst period of my life facing bankruptcy etc. Panicking that I had left a good job frantically trying to secure another feeling like such a fool. That precious time we both agreed I’d have at home with the kids he robbed from me too.
> Getting through it and learning to forgive, accepting what is, moving forward takes time and acceptance was key. I had to just let go of what was lost and be present. He genuinely is doing the best he can to make amends. That is important to me too.
> 
> It is a really lonely place to be too. So reach out to either a really solid buddy or a therapist x


Thanks so much for all your posts and your honesty ... and taking the time .. You have done an amazing job yourself !!..  Wishing you the very best ..


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## Shinynails

Things can get better, they will get better. 

You can set new expectations. There has been some solid advice from the posters. Choose from the replies what aligns with your values, make new ground rules. You deserve honesty and respect and more. 

Wishing you well.


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