# Fixed to Tracker.... where?



## newbie2009

Hi all, 
I hope Im posting in the right section! Im just wondering where about in my mortgage contract should it indicate what I will be offered at the end of my fixed term contact (5 years - ending 31/3/12)

Thank you


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## wbbs

On your original loan offer, the page that show the amount you are borrowing, the term etc, it should show what fixed rate you started at and what it will revert to.  If it is tracker with with say ECB plus some margin or other e.g. 1.25%.   That is assuming you started your mortgage on a fixed and not if you started on a tracker and then fixed, its not so clear cut then.


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## newbie2009

thank u.. that page with the little table indicates mortgage amount, interest rate, term, and fixed rate period, and %, there is no mention of what I will revert to in March?
I thought maybe it was somewhere else hidden away...


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## newbie2009

It does say:

Amount of each instalment from 27/3/07 - €1293
Amount of each instalment from 27/4/12 - €1280

but I also found this.....

"....... i further understand that any outstanding debt owning to ** Bank by me at any given time is secured on the property the subject of the tracker mortgage and must be repaid in full before the relevant title deeds can be returned or the relevant mortgage deed released"


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## wbbs

What exactly does it say on rate, what rate fixed, does it say anything else on that line at all?


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## newbie2009

*Details*

Hi!
It doesnt make any reference to what happens after the 5.06% 5 year fixed rate ends... it only indicates the difference in payment as above. I will post all info when I get home. Maybe Im missing something. 

Im holding out a glimmer of hope that I may be offered a tracker in March, mind its only a glimmer....

Thank you


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## djh

newbie2009 said:


> but I also found this.....
> 
> "....... i further understand that any outstanding debt owning to ** Bank by me at any given time is secured on the property the subject of the tracker mortgage and must be repaid in full before the relevant title deeds can be returned or the relevant mortgage deed released"


 

Hi newbie, 
were you looking over my shoulder last night? I did exactly teh same thing, looking up the mortgage doccuments, and read the very same line in mine, right above the bit that I signed. 

Similar to yourself, on the first page of the Loan Offer it is very specific on the fixed rate and when it is ending. But only gives an amount for the payments following that and no mention of a particular percentage rate. 

Like yourself, I am coming off a fixed rate next year. 

If anyone has an idea what it means I would be very greatful. 

DeeJay


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## newbie2009

Hey Deejay, 
Im at a loss to figure it out.. Im hoping I'll get offered a tracker. Im just trying to figure out what to expect. I wonder what bank you are with? Im not sure we're allowed say, but I'll PM you!
I will post my exact loan offer page this evening when I get home... and the complete paragraph which mentions the tracker.


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## newbie2009

*Exact Wording!*

Loan Offer Customer Credit Act 1995

Important Information as at 27/2/2007

1. Amount of credit advanced: €266,000
2. Period of Agreement: 40 years
3. Number of Repayment Instalments: 480
4. Amount of Each Instalment from 27/3/07: €1293
    Amount of Each Instament from 27/3/12: €1280
5. Total Amount Repayable: €615,370
6. Cost of this credit: €349,370
7. APR: 5.1%
8. Amount of endowment premium (if applicable): to be advised
9. Amount of mortgage protection premium (if applicable): To be advised
10. Effect on amount of instalment of 1% increase in first year in Interest Rate ** : €153.46

*Annual Percentage Rate
** This is the amount by which the instalment repayment will increase in the event of a 1% increase at the start of the first year in the interest rate on which the above calculations are based. 

The payment rates on this housing loan may be adjusted by the lender from time to time. END


It is the bones of it!


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## marksa

newbie2009 said:


> It does say:
> 
> "....... i further understand that any outstanding debt owning to ** Bank by me at any given time is secured on the property the subject of the tracker mortgage and must be repaid in full before the relevant title deeds can be returned or the relevant mortgage deed released"


 
it does not specify a set margin over ECB, if one is take "tracker" to equate to being an ECB tracker as opposed to e.g. a base rate tracker or a Euribor Tracker. So lets assume a good legal eagle or ombudsman looks at that and says ordinarily it would mean ECB Tracker. Then what margin? All it would imply is that the bank has to give you a tracker - they could and say the margin over ECB is say 3%. There is nothing contractually to say it would be the margin that they might have had on sale at time of your fixed rate drawdown in 2007 - that is not what you signed up for. But please do go to your bank on the specific wording of (ECB) tracker and demand a tracker and see what they offer.


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## newbie2009

Thank you Marksa! I'll will keep ye all posted!


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## newbie2009

Hi all!

Called the bank on 30th December. Was told I would get a letter in the next fortnight - nothing yet. Was chatting a good friend today who advised that I correspond in writing! So Im sending off a letter to the local branch tomorrow! Wish me luck!! 

djh - How are you getting on?


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## newbie2009

*Update...*

Hi all, 
just a quick update...

I got a response from my bank advising that I was not entitled to a tracker because I turned down the offer of a tracker 5 years ago... ?!?!

I have confirmed to the bank that only ONE offer was put on the table for me... five year fixed!  But that regardless of this, my mortgage documentation STILL states that the remainder of my mortgage is the subject of a tracker! (This is indicated on the page that I signed)

There has been quite a bit of to-ing and fro-ing since but I have not gotten much further.

The bank is adamant that I chose a fixed rate over the tracker and that I signed a document agreeing to the fixed rate! Now, I agree with the second part of this statement.... i did sign for a fixed rate..... but only because it was my ONLY OPTION. 

I hope Im making sense!! 

I have asked them today to provide me with documentation which confirmed that I was offered a tracker and refused same. 

The bank representative advised me at the outset of our conversation that she had spoken with the banks legal advisors etc etc and that she was obliged to inform me that her supervisor was also listening in on the call ?!?

And on a final point.. the para which I quoted to them in my first letter about the remainder of my mortgage being the subject of a tracker mortgage - well, she advised that this was a standard page in all mortgage contracts, and that it doesn't mean I'm in line for a tracker... However, I advised her that if this page was a standardised page, why was this the page I had to sign to agree to the mortgage?!? 

At this point she stated that her supervisor had indicated to her to end the call??!?!

Is there anything else I can do? I would not be going through all this hassle and agro if I didn't think I was entitled to a tracker.. Any advice?

Thanks guys


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## Guns N Roses

You need to read the *Terms and Conditions* that would have been attached to your *Mortgage Offer Letter*.

You are looking for something similar to the following:

"The interest rate applicable to the loan is a fixed rate and is fixed for the period set out in Part 1 of this Offer letter. At the end of the fixed rate period the Lender shall have sole discretion to provide any further or subsequent fixed rate period. If the Lender does not provide such a further or subsequent fixed rate period or if the Lender offers the Borrower a choice of interest at the end of any fixed rate period and the Borrower fails to exercise that choice then in either case, the interest rate applicable to the Loan will be a variable interest rate. This variable rate may vary upwards or downwards. *The interest rate shall be no more than x.xx% above the European Central Bank Main Refinancing Operations Minimum Rate for the term of the loan."*


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## newbie2009

Hi Guns n Roses, 
Thanks for the reply. There is no para like that in my documents... what about the attached paragraph?



 ".....i further understand that any outstanding debt owning to ** Bank by me at any given time is secured on the property the subject of the tracker mortgage and must be repaid in full before the relevant title deeds can be returned or the relevant mortgage deed released"

Any good?


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## newbie2009

Hi all, 
Just by way of an update... I sent off a letter to the FSO today detailing my complaint with the UB! Im not sure how long they have to respond, but I guess its a waiting game now. 
Say a little prayer!


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## djh

Hey Newbie, 
fingers are crossed for you! 

I'm still about a year behind you in this process (similar offer letter and signiture page), with my fixed rate expiring in March next year. 
Had a very poor resonse to my Data Protection request, and sent off a second letter requesting they check their files and send me the missing stuff. No reply as of yet to that. Reckon I'll be writing to the data protection comissioner soon. 

Just wondering, what had happened now that you're finished the fixed rate and are disputing with them what is supposed to happen next? Have they put you on to a variable without your agreement? Just curious what happens to the monthly payments and interest while there's no agreement.


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## newbie2009

Well djh!
My last letter from the bank indicated that even though they sent me my "options letter" in February... I am actually not due to come off my fixed rate until August? I find this quite bizarre... 

Actually I find the whole experience very bizarre... When this reaches its final conclusion, I will put up a post outlining all the details from my *4* Data Protection requests... to my interaction with my local branch.... and my correspondence with the banks mortgage centre, and also with the bank's complaints dept.... !

It would make a very good panto script!


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## rameire

further into the loan offer it should state fixed rate until such and such a date and then either svr or ecb + 2.20% or something like that.
might be loan type or interest type that the details may be under.
also the difference in the dates could be you got the loan offer in march but did not draw down till august, so the fixed rate would be applicable for five years from august


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## newbie2009

Hi Rameire,
My post above outlines exactly what the loan offer page states, see post No. 9. 
I have gone through the rest of the documents with a fine tooth comb, and nowhere in the document does it mention standard variable rate..... it does however mention "tracker"!


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## Blacksheep

Newbie2009 I am in the same situation as you and am currently
Awaiting a response from the ombudsman. 
Have you received a response from the ombudsman yet? 
Thanks


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## newbie2009

Hi Blacksheep,
I received correspondence from the FSO recently just advising that they had sent paperwork to the bank with a 20 working day response time. Ive spoken to a few folk who confirmed that it will take the bank a lot longer than 20 working days to respond to the FSO, but at least the ball is rolling now!
When did you send off your request to the FSO?


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## peteb

No it will take the bank 20 days.  but if this is your first instance of going to the ombudsman, months of back and forth will follow.  So don't hold your breath.


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## newbie2009

Ah, Im sure there will be a lot of too-ing and fro-ing, but the ball is rolling, so I'll just sit and watch it roll!


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## peteb

Is this ulster bank you are with?


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## newbie2009

Yup!


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## Blacksheep

newbie2009 said:


> Hi Blacksheep,
> I received correspondence from the FSO recently just advising that they had sent paperwork to the bank with a 20 working day response time. Ive spoken to a few folk who confirmed that it will take the bank a lot longer than 20 working days to respond to the FSO, but at least the ball is rolling now!
> When did you send off your request to the FSO?


 
I sent through the FSO application form at the end of October. 
I accepted the offer of mediation at the begining of November but the bank declined, I was advised by the FSO at the end of November that they would investigate the case but it would take between 6-8 weeks before a response would be received. 
I was just wondering how long I can expect to wait as I thought 6-8 weeks might be too good to be true..
I will continue to wait patiently like you 
Best of luck!


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## peteb

I started in April and didnt finish until last month.  Have you checked the "general conditions relating to the mortgage" Newbie?


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## newbie2009

Hi Blacksheep,
I sent in my initial complaint mid august, and I got an acknowledgement mid November, so approx 12 weeks for that! I was advised in that letter that a summary of my complaint would be sent to UB for their response (they were given 20 working days).
About a week later, I got a letter from the FSO, enclosing a copy of their correspondence to the UB, I think it was 27/11/12, so 20 working days from then!
I will update this thread as I progress!
Its a waiting game now I suppose


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## newbie2009

peteb said:


> I started in April and didnt finish until last month. Have you checked the "general conditions relating to the mortgage" Newbie?


 

Hi Peteb,
Is that in the contract itself? I went through my mortgage documents in detail, I could find no reference to SVR, only Tracker... so I sent in Data Protection request for all my mortgage documents, which I got (after a few attempts), but there is still nothing indicating SVR anywhere.

Newbie


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## newbie2009

Hi Peteb,
I hope you got a positive response from the FSO!
Newbie


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## Blacksheep

newbie2009 said:


> Hi Blacksheep,
> I sent in my initial complaint mid august, and I got an acknowledgement mid November, so approx 12 weeks for that! I was advised in that letter that a summary of my complaint would be sent to UB for their response (they were given 20 working days).
> About a week later, I got a letter from the FSO, enclosing a copy of their correspondence to the UB, I think it was 27/11/12, so 20 working days from then!
> I will update this thread as I progress!
> Its a waiting game now I suppose


 
It will be very interesting to see how it pans out.
Hopefully it will be a positive outcome.


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## peteb

I did Newbie.  But I knew where to look! More to follow later!


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