# Shipping Engagement Rings



## catweazle (22 Jan 2008)

I have to send my fiances ring over to Antwerp to get it repaired, I cant seem to find any couriur, eg fedex or Dhl that will do it for me, saying the max they can provide insurance is for 500 euros. Does anyone know where I can do this


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## shesells (23 Jan 2008)

Ryanair day return to Charleroi? Deliver it yourself? Likely to be cheaper than a courier and you get peace of mind.


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## Yachtie (23 Jan 2008)

A few years back I needed an item shipped and the likes of FedEx and DHL wouldn't hear of it. 

I contacted the small courier company here in Dublin (they are called Shooting Star) and they not only took the job but I was very, very pleased with them. Their rate was reasonable and the service excellent. Look them up in the phone book or golden pages, they may be a ble to help.


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## mrgtbad (9 Feb 2008)

catweazle said:


> I have to send my fiances ring over to Antwerp to get it repaired, I cant seem to find any couriur, eg fedex or Dhl that will do it for me, saying the max they can provide insurance is for 500 euros. Does anyone know where I can do this


hi catweazle.


this is a very interesting post.

recently, people went mad when i pointed out some disadvantages about buying overseas.this was only one of my points.many of the courier companies simple wont except jewellery.a few will but only offer 500 us dollars cover.so what to do.except the risk and have sleepless nights.
or fly over which is a hassle.if it was me, i could only fly at weekends and the airline jack up the prices then.plus i dont want or have the time to travel.
all this needed to be included in the purchase price.if it was bought in dublin a trip into town was all that was needed.thats 1 euro.my last cheap flight to the mainland cost 220euro plus a few extra hidden charges.
clubman didnt let the tread explore this some more,he closed it suddenly.there was some great debate going on.
i hope it goes well for you.


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## John Rambo (10 Feb 2008)

mrgtbad said:


> p>
> recently, people went mad when i pointed out some disadvantages about buying overseas.this was only one of my points.many of the courier companies simple wont except jewellery.a few will but only offer 500 us dollars cover.so what to do.except the risk and have sleepless nights.
> or fly over which is a hassle.if it was me, i could only fly at weekends and the airline jack up the prices then.plus i dont want or have the time to travel.
> all this needed to be included in the purchase price.if it was bought in dublin a trip into town was all that was needed.thats 1 euro.my last cheap flight to the mainland cost 220euro plus a few extra hidden charges.
> ...


 
As someone who SAVED a five figure sum by travelling to Antwerp because of what I read on AAM I would disagree with Mrgtbad. A flight to Brussels cost me €80 return, the train to Antwerp was a few euro and other posters have given examples of courier companies who will take jewellery.


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## mathepac (10 Feb 2008)

mrgtbad said:


> ...if it was bought in dublin a trip into town was all that was needed.thats 1 euro...


If it was bought in Dublin and OP lived in Dublin that might be true, but please don't assume everyone on here lives in Dublin, as we don't.


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## mrgtbad (10 Feb 2008)

John Rambo said:


> As someone who SAVED a five figure sum by travelling to Antwerp because of what I read on AAM I would disagree with Mrgtbad. A flight to Brussels cost me €80 return, the train to Antwerp was a few euro and other posters have given examples of courier companies who will take jewellery.


 

i would disagree with john rambo.i've just checked flights to  brussels next weekend and it will cost 257euro.  and i would have to stay overnight , thats another 100 euro at least.plus transport costs.
all in   € 400/500.
plus i have to be away from my familly.i'd be very annoyed.    and what johnrambo forgets is it may take a few days to be repaired. what then, another flight hotel etc  
accountants eh?


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## mrgtbad (10 Feb 2008)

mathepac said:


> If it was bought in Dublin and OP lived in Dublin that might be true, but please don't assume everyone on here lives in Dublin, as we don't.


 i'm sorry mathepac, i didnt mean for it to come out like that.sorry again.


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## mercman (10 Feb 2008)

First try UPS. They can offer Insurance. Also in some cases the Household Insurance might cover it for a small amount extra if you tell the Insurance company first. I see the point that Mrgtbad is making. He is obviously in the trade but a few things to remember. We all know of people that have gone to Dubai and they will tell you they bought beautiful jewelry. I have had some bought out there and seen quite alot and in most cases it is rubbish. I have purchased in Antwerp anD 'Caveat Empto' Saying that there are deals overseas but you need to know what you are doing. Personally I try to use local trade and will haggle the price which normally works. And I am not in the trade.


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## mathepac (10 Feb 2008)

catweazle said:


> I... eg fedex or Dhl that will do it for me, saying the max they can provide insurance is for 500 euros. Does anyone know where I can do this


Its a while since I used the facility, but registered packets with An Post could have a declared value. I can't remember what the upper limit was but it was certainly in excess of 500 euro.


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## John Rambo (11 Feb 2008)

mrgtbad said:


> i would disagree with john rambo.i've just checked flights to  brussels next weekend and it will cost 257euro.  and i would have to stay overnight , thats another 100 euro at least.plus transport costs.
> all in   € 400/500.
> plus i have to be away from my familly.i'd be very annoyed.    and what johnrambo forgets is it may take a few days to be repaired. what then, another flight hotel etc
> accountants eh?


 
I agree there is hassle and expense in getting to Antwerp but your example is a little unfair. Flights are always expensive close to the departure date. The "normal" price is about €80 return. It's a simple financial calculation...is the money you save worth the potential hassle/expense? For me it was. So, which jeweller do you work for anyway?!


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## mrgtbad (11 Feb 2008)

hi john rambo.
these where the costs of the flight.
you keep quoting €80 but no mention of hotel cost transfer costs.i did not make up this flight pricing.its ryanair.as i said,if the ring takes a week, are you going to travel to collect again?and if your not happy with repair or you have a dispute, how will you resolve this.i bought a computer recently and had a problem with it. i was told where to go, but when my solicitor rang them up advising them of our intentions, they resolved the issue.if i had bought it in antwerp and they decided still not to help, i'd give up.

but do you work for phillip harold? you are always recommending him and say it costs 80euro to get there.

you mention in your 21/11/2007 post  the following

 "it's 3 princess cut diamonds which together make 1.75ct.That makes sense alright, you certainly got a good deal...I thought you were saying it was a solitaire (one diamond) which would cost c.€25K in Antwerp/US/Dubai and probably €40K in Ireland!It just shows you, there's value to be had"

i have seen a 2ct diamond in a jewellers window on wicklow street for under 19k.its tag said Hsi

you dont really know what your talking about.is that fair for me to say? your pricing is way way off.
i'm a bit shocked at what your doing.

this ring you bought which saved you 1000's, are you really so sure?


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## mrgtbad (11 Feb 2008)

mercman said:


> First try UPS. They can offer Insurance. Also in some cases the Household Insurance might cover it for a small amount extra if you tell the Insurance company first. I see the point that Mrgtbad is making. He is obviously in the trade but a few things to remember. We all know of people that have gone to Dubai and they will tell you they bought beautiful jewelry. I have had some bought out there and seen quite alot and in most cases it is rubbish. I have purchased in Antwerp anD 'Caveat Empto' Saying that there are deals overseas but you need to know what you are doing. Personally I try to use local trade and will haggle the price which normally works. And I am not in the trade.


 

hi merc,
i'm not "obviously in the trade" 
i agree with all you said- except the bit about me


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## John Rambo (11 Feb 2008)

mrgtbad said:


> hi john rambo.
> these where the costs of the flight.
> you keep quoting €80 but no mention of hotel cost transfer costs.i did not make up this flight pricing.its ryanair.as i said,if the ring takes a week, are you going to travel to collect again?and if your not happy with repair or you have a dispute, how will you resolve this.i bought a computer recently and had a problem with it. i was told where to go, but when my solicitor rang them up advising them of our intentions, they resolved the issue.if i had bought it in antwerp and they decided still not to help, i'd give up.
> 
> ...


 
Hello Mrgtbad...no I do not work for Phillipe Harold. I am just a satisfied customer. I mention a figure of €80 because myself and my fiance paid €160 return for the two of us. The transfer costs were negligible, something like €10. I did a lot of research into types of rings. HSi is not particularly good, and the different cuts also affect the price. Princess is not as expensive as round etc. I went to Applebys, Paul Sheerans, Rocks, Boodles, all the places and priced the ring we wanted. In Ireland it would have cost me between 20 and 25 thousand euro. I was able to buy the same spec ring, same quality of diamond for roughly half this. Think about this...diamonds are priced in dollars and the dollar has collapsed over the last two years for a number of reasons. Therefore Irish jewellers buying diamonds are coining it on the exchange rate. I paid in US dollars, thus saving this. Margins in Ireland on everything, not just jewellery are astronomical. I have no problem recommending a service I have had good experience with and if I've any problems I'd either use UPS or any courier that cover expensive items or just go myself.


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## John Rambo (12 Feb 2008)

mrgtbad said:


> i have seen a 2ct diamond in a jewellers window on wicklow street for under 19k.its tag said Hsi
> 
> you dont really know what your talking about.is that fair for me to say? your pricing is way way off.
> i'm a bit shocked at what your doing.
> ...


 
Mrgtbad...I'm sorry to say it's you who does not seem to know what you're talking about. I did some research into this ring you allegedly saw for €19,000. First of all, I'm going to assume it was a round diamond solitare, i.e. the most expensive type. It may not have been, but that would just reinforce my argument further. Pricing that stone on www.diamondland.be which is a good guideline a 2ct H Si round diamond goes for around US$16,356. That's €11,518 at today's exchange rate of 1.42 (the actual physical rate you'd get in the bank, not the headline rate) Now as previously described in other threads, many jewellers in Antwerp will waive the VAT element if you pay them in cash. That is entirely a matter for you and for them. If you do this, the price becomes €9,519. Also, as mentioned in other threads the gold ring/setting is complementary. From this example, you can see that the person buying this ring you saw in Wicklow Street would be paying 100% more than the person buying the same ring with the same specifications in Antwerp. I think it's fair to say that it doesn't really matter whether the flight you might have to take to Antwerp is €80 or €250 when you look at it like this!


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## addob (12 Feb 2008)

John Rambo said:


> I agree there is hassle and expense in getting to Antwerp but your example is a little unfair. Flights are always expensive close to the departure date. The "normal" price is about €80 return. It's a simple financial calculation...is the money you save worth the potential hassle/expense? For me it was. So, which jeweller do you work for anyway?!


 
mrgtbad, I have to agree with John Rambo, you have been very outspoken about your opinions with regards to rings and diamonds yet have not once been honest about your connection to a trade you are obviously linked to.

I take everything you say with a grain of salt until you come clean about your connection.

addob


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## csirl (12 Feb 2008)

> I have to send my fiances ring over to Antwerp to get it repaired,


 
Is there any reason why the ring cannot be repaired in Ireland? 



> I went to Applebys, Paul Sheerans, Rocks, Boodles, all the places and priced the ring we wanted. In Ireland it would have cost me between 20 and 25 thousand euro.


 
I have some relatives in the jewellery business in Ireland - wholesale mark-up on imported jewellery is MINIMUM of 100% and could be up to 400%. The biggest mark-ups are in the large chains of jewellers. You will usually get better value in independent jewellers (ie. not part of chain) and most will be able to obtain specific pieces or stones (from wholesalers UK or Belgium) on request.


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## John Rambo (12 Feb 2008)

csirl said:


> Is there any reason why the ring cannot be repaired in Ireland?
> 
> 
> 
> I have some relatives in the jewellery business in Ireland - wholesale mark-up on imported jewellery is MINIMUM of 100% and could be up to 400%. The biggest mark-ups are in the large chains of jewellers. You will usually get better value in independent jewellers (ie. not part of chain) and most will be able to obtain specific pieces or stones (from wholesalers UK or Belgium) on request.


 
You're absolutely right Csirl...a site like this is great for pointing people in the direction of value for money, despite the attempts of vested interests to use smoke and mirrors to deflect consumers away from getting a fair deal.


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## csirl (12 Feb 2008)

There are three pieces of advice I'd give on engagement rings:

1. Buy for the stone, not the ring. The ring is usually only a small fraction of the price of the whole thing. Stones are can be easily remounted on a totally different ring at any time. My wifes has been remounted twice since bought it and no doubt will be done again in the future - she like changing it. The large chains often dress up a relatively poor diamond on a fancy ring to make it look more expensive. Be wary of sales staff who say the diamond is a little less expensive, but the better ring makes up for it - this is rarely true. You would be surprised how many people buy poor diamonds just because they look great in the shop window on a fancy ring/mounting.

2. The other jewellers trick is with those rings with multiple diamonds - usually 3 or 5 or some other odd number. Usually the central diamond is the best quality one and the others are inferior. If you ask about the quality of the stones or want to examine more closely, you usually get shown the central one. You need to examine and ask specific questions about all the individual stones. Bear in mind that the sales assistant may only have been told the spec of the central stone and may assume that they are all the same. 

3. One large stone is always much more expensive than two small stones of same grade where carat of two small is same as carat of large.


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## Yeager (12 Feb 2008)

My girlfiend and I are off to Antwerp in a few weeks to get her ring. We have shoped around a good bit here in Ireland both in Dublin and the rest of the country, but the prices for the diamond spec you get here are outrages comparing to Antwerp. We (well I) intend spending the same amount as we would have here but we will be getting a better spec. Its not all about cost savings likewise a trip away to do this will always be something to remeber. I must admit after endless research on treads like this one etc majority if not all the feedback is positive as long as you keep it to the reputable dealers.


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## mrgtbad (3 Jun 2008)

dear john rambo.
ive looked at the web site.
a 1 ct is h si  is ,using your 1.42 conversation rate, eur€3822 add on the VAT €4625 plus a plat simple mount 500euro equals €5100 plus travel etc there,hotel 400 flights 250for him and her.. total its probably going to work out at €6k.
i guess in dublin you can look and get something for that are almost that.

Rambos suggestion of being a tax evader is foolish.
1: if you are going to deal with a jeweller who will do something that bent, you can be assured that he will be just as bent with you.he will sell you a poor quaility diamond with no worries.come on rambo, think! use your head.

2; if you are tax evading there is no real price comparsion between them and here.if you found a tax evading jeweller here the prices are the same

3;if you pay cash to avoid VAT youve no reciept equals no come back.i'm really surprised you dont understand this.

4;if as rambo suggests you illegally  buy and avoid VAT how will you insure the ring.if its lost, you will not be able to produce reciept and the insurance company will refuse to pay out.

4;for every 100 h si diamonds only 10 are great.the rest are poor.thats what your been sold over seas.here comes the thick paddies

so to recap, itll cost you 6k to make a purchase in belguim at least!compared to 6.5k here
 so your magical saving of 100% is wrong.
and at least with dublin you deal with local jewellers who can be sued if your sold a dud.
will you tell us what interest you have in the mistruth of massive savings and your interest in the business??


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## mrgtbad (3 Jun 2008)

John Rambo said:


> Mrgtbad...I'm sorry to say it's you who does not seem to know what you're talking about. I did some research into this ring you allegedly saw for €19,000. First of all, I'm going to assume it was a round diamond solitare, i.e. the most expensive type. It may not have been, but that would just reinforce my argument further. Pricing that stone on www.diamondland.be which is a good guideline a 2ct H Si round diamond goes for around US$16,356. That's €11,518 at today's exchange rate of 1.42 (the actual physical rate you'd get in the bank, not the headline rate) Now as previously described in other threads, many jewellers in Antwerp will waive the VAT element if you pay them in cash. That is entirely a matter for you and for them. If you do this, the price becomes €9,519. Also, as mentioned in other threads the gold ring/setting is complementary. From this example, you can see that the person buying this ring you saw in Wicklow Street would be paying 100% more than the person buying the same ring with the same specifications in Antwerp. I think it's fair to say that it doesn't really matter whether the flight you might have to take to Antwerp is €80 or €250 when you look at it like this!


 
on the web site you recommend a 2 ct hsi is dollar19700 thats13900 euro plus a mount and setting 500 equals euro14400 plus the VAT €17425.
you could get something in dublin for that with out travelling and costs.

you are mis calcuating.look at your numbers again.the US$16356 did not include the VAT.
so much for balanced debate.
keep you smart remarks to your self (ie its me who doesnt know what hes talking about)and look at your figures


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## Yeager (4 Jun 2008)

mrgtbad - i would like to correct you on point 3 above, I purchased from Harrold Phillip (no affiliation other than a very very satisifed customer) earlier this year in cash saving on the tax and I did receive a receipt, international diamond cert etc.

For the record i was organised and booked my flights a few weeks in advance and got them cheaper than 80 quid each with Aerlingus to Brussels.

Anyone thats serious about buying >1 carat diamond, D-E colour would be foolish to purchase in Dublin/Ireland. I did months of research on this...........prices down the country were high but Dublins were just plain and simply a rip off.


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## John Rambo (4 Jun 2008)

Mrgtbad...why have you resurrected this thread? Everyone believes you have a vested interest in turning people off buying diamonds abroad. Your manipulation of figures is bizarre. Including the VAT still leads to massive savings. On this forum you've tens of people delighted with what they got...and then you who is vehemently opposed to the whole process. Again, I say I saved a 5 figure sum by purchasing in Antwerp...phenomenal stuff.


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## mrgtbad (4 Jun 2008)

John Rambo said:


> Mrgtbad...why have you resurrected this thread? Everyone believes you have a vested interest in turning people off buying diamonds abroad. Your manipulation of figures is bizarre. Including the VAT still leads to massive savings. On this forum you've tens of people delighted with what they got...and then you who is vehemently opposed to the whole process. Again, I say I saved a 5 figure sum by purchasing in Antwerp...phenomenal stuff.


 
hi rambo.
you have not looked at the mistake you made.the site you mentions has written in small writing that it does NOT include VAT.i checked this site.
a 2ct h si costs   €13900 thats for a loose stone.add a mount say €500 and add 21% VAT equals €17424.
i'm not been smart but you are not a very good accountant.also for an accountant your suggestion of evading tax is shocking.

please tell me excatly where i am making the mistake with the numbers above, not like the last reply which did not address the details.
again, i am certain i saw a 2ct h si mounted in a shop in wicklow for that price above.


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## mrgtbad (4 Jun 2008)

Yeager said:


> mrgtbad - i would like to correct you on point 3 above, I purchased from Harrold Phillip (no affiliation other than a very very satisifed customer) earlier this year in cash saving on the tax and I did receive a receipt, international diamond cert etc.
> 
> For the record i was organised and booked my flights a few weeks in advance and got them cheaper than 80 quid each with Aerlingus to Brussels.
> 
> Anyone thats serious about buying >1 carat diamond, D-E colour would be foolish to purchase in Dublin/Ireland. I did months of research on this...........prices down the country were high but Dublins were just plain and simply a rip off.


hi Yeager
i dont think a company can decide to wavier the VAT.that is a tax levied by the government..if they have evaded tax i dont know how a real reciept could be issued.it couldnt be? 
i think anyone flying overseas with 8000cash to make a purchase of such a small but important thing is a bit mad.youve no real come back if your sold the runt of the diamond liter.and just of note i got a quote from harold and he was from what i remember only 500euro cheaped than what i could find in dublin.


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## mercman (4 Jun 2008)

mrgtbad, Although I try and support the local trade, there are real bargains overseas. The truth is that the Dublin jewelers and those in the trade simply do not want to 'trade'. In the past week I have spoken with a some persons I know in the trade and they themselves are telling me head away if I want to purchase top quality  over 2 cts diamonds. You must remember it's not the buyers that are evading the Tax - it is a sellers problem. Simply there is no point in trying to keep the Ireland flag flying when we are living in a much bigger market. And the locals won't thank you whilst making a fool of yourself. I purchase quite a bit of jewelry and I will be travelling hereonin.


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## mrgtbad (5 Jun 2008)

mercman said:


> mrgtbad, Although I try and support the local trade, there are real bargains overseas. The truth is that the Dublin jewelers and those in the trade simply do not want to 'trade'. In the past week I have spoken with a some persons I know in the trade and they themselves are telling me head away if I want to purchase top quality over 2 cts diamonds. You must remember it's not the buyers that are evading the Tax - it is a sellers problem. Simply there is no point in trying to keep the Ireland flag flying when we are living in a much bigger market. And the locals won't thank you whilst making a fool of yourself. I purchase quite a bit of jewelry and I will be travelling hereonin.


 
hi mercman.
my problem is 2 fold.any time i try to find out if there is abargin overseas, the rings simply dont work out much cheaper.often they are more expensive when you add in travel cost.and not to mention the reputability of suppliers overseas.also if you have a problem you have to fly back and risk been ran around.. and suing is out of the question.for me , all my big purchases ie cars etc i'll always buy local.
its not that i want to support local really.. its about a commercial decision. i know theres a chance that there could be a problem and i want to get back to the shop.

 evading the tax is a issue.
ie.if you bring in a ring from america and bring it home without import tax being paid-it is an illegal import.NO insurance company will pay up.
so if you have a 20k ring there is no way to get insurance which will pay out.ring up an insurance company and find out.so the risk is too great in my opion.also if your tax evading that might explain why the rings are more expensive here.if the all the jewellers evaded tax over her, there would be no hospitals for your elderly parents or schools for your kids etc etc you knowwhat i mean?
what kind of 2ct do you plan to get and how much can u get it for?just been nosey ;-)


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## mercman (5 Jun 2008)

mrgtbad, hang on i will send you a PM


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## mrgtbad (5 Jun 2008)

sure


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## staunton (6 Jun 2008)

I insured my other halves New York engagement ring when we got back very easily.
Just got a written valuation specifying the diamond type and size as well as its value to replace in Ireland.
This was no problem to the valuer who seemed to be very genuine and is established in the area for 30 years.
He was extremely impressed with the value for money we got and confirmed we could not have got a similar diamond for anywhere near that price in Ireland ( Was worth several multiples of the purchase price ).
Also the price included NY taxes.


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## mrgtbad (6 Jun 2008)

staunton said:


> I insured my other halves New York engagement ring when we got back very easily.
> Just got a written valuation specifying the diamond type and size as well as its value to replace in Ireland.
> This was no problem to the valuer who seemed to be very genuine and is established in the area for 30 years.
> He was extremely impressed with the value for money we got and confirmed we could not have got a similar diamond for anywhere near that price in Ireland ( Was worth several multiples of the purchase price ).
> Also the price included NY taxes.


 
Did you declare and pay import tax on return?the insurance company will take your money but if you lose it and need to claim they want to see that it has not been illegally imported in to this country.if it has the wont pay out.


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## John Rambo (6 Jun 2008)

Seriously Mrgtbad, what is your connection with the jewellery business in Ireland. The VAT isssue you've highlighted is an issue and I overlooked it but that was in a quick one minute search to disprove some of your wild claims. Frankly, I've bigger and better things to be doing. You are spending an inordinate amount of time bad mouthing the concept of buying diamond rings anywhere other than Ireland. Again, I ask why? I couldn't care less about websites or what you've seen in shops. I did a lot of research before buying my fiance's ring. We went to Weirs, Appelby's, Rocks, Paul Sheeran, and Boodles. We saw numerous examples of the design of ring we wanted with the cut and clarity we wanted. These were all in the €20000-€25000 range so we're not talking about chump change. Then, on the advice of posters here I looked into the Antwerp option and got the same ring, same spec for far far less. And just to clarify a point for you items purchased in the EU are not subject to duty and equally monies paid over to a retailer are assumed to be VAT inclusive. As for you insurance scaremongering it just isn't true. You just get it valued and stick it on your insurance. Do insurance companies start querying where you bought iPhones or golf clubs? No they do not. And finally, you consistently inflate the costs of travel...why? Why are you so concerned with people buying abroad? It's unnatural...unless you have a vested interest in which case you should divulge it.


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## staunton (6 Jun 2008)

As with I suspect 99% of people we did not declare our ring. This would have added 20% to the cost of it.
However this is negligible in comparison to the amount we saved by purchasing abroad ( several hundred per cent ) as confirmed by the professional valuation who as I said being an EXPERT in this field for over 30 yrs confirmed that a valuation cert is perfectly adequate for insurance purposes.


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## mercman (7 Jun 2008)

mrgtbad has managed to insult everybody and everything that is not willing to agree with him. There is so much posted by him that it remains that he is simply putting people off from even going into a local Jewelry shop. It is everybody else that is wrong according to him. He wants us all to ensure that the VAT returns of the people we purchase goods from are adhered to. Even the Insurance companies do not know as to what they are doing. mrgtbad - what a guy !! You have done the exact same for the jewelry business in Ireland as Hitler did for the German tourist market.


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## John Rambo (7 Jun 2008)

mercman said:


> You have done the exact same for the jewelry business in Ireland as Hitler did for the German tourist market.


 
Or what Malcolm MacArthur did for the bowtie business in Ireland...


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## mrgtbad (7 Jun 2008)

calm down girls.i'm just doingwhat eddie hobbs says we should.compare like for like.i have queried things
;it not insulting people ... 
i stand by all ive said.i wont buy a computer overseas.its just me.
ring up yourinsurance company.tell them youve imported a ring and evaded paying TAX and ask them will they pay out.youll need to talk to person who deals with claims.as a tax payer i thing evaders are scum.
mr rambo, what are these bigger and better things you have to do?

and i am flattered to be compared with hitler.like him, i favour hanging my enemy's
with pianowire.( there was also very little crime in the third reich)
so to summerise... no one likes me?


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## ajapale (7 Jun 2008)

I'm invoking Godwin's Law and closing this thread. When the "Third Reich" is invoked then the thread has passed the point of being of any interest to us here on AAM.


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