# Can hotels refuse guests a smoking room? What are consumer rights in this area?



## susie (18 Mar 2010)

According to the legislation hotel bedrooms are exempt from the smoking ban, so how then can hotels refuse guests a smoking room? What are consumer rights in this area? Some hotels are imposing fines of up to €200.


----------



## huskerdu (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

Can you explain that a bit better ? 
I think that what you are saying is that a hotel has fined a guest for smoking in a non-smoking room. Can you clarify ?

I dont know of any legislation that obliges a hotel to allow smoking in bedrooms. 
Are you suggesting that there is, or that there should be ?


----------



## Caveat (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*



huskerdu said:


> I dont know of any legislation that obliges a hotel to allow smoking in bedrooms.


 
Nor do I and I think in practice it is uncommon - at least in this country.

I know for a fact the Skylon have smoking rooms though.


----------



## 4th estate (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

The legislation on the smoking ban allowed smoking in hotel rooms as it was considered to be "your home" for the time you are in it, or something like that.

Many hotels offer smoking or non smoking rooms (I have a mother who is an inveterate smoker, and have taken her away in Ireland a few times, so I know!)

However, some hotels have a total non smoking policy. So if you are a puffer of the baccy, check before you check in!

As for the OP's question, I would say the hotel either had a no smoking policy, or did not have a smoking room available. So if you decide to smoke in a non smoking room, they are fining people. That would be to deter guests from having a go where it is not allowed I would think. As for the consumer rights thing, sorry, don't know. But as I said, make sure before you book that you get what you want, and in this day and age for hotels, they will give you exactly what you want if it is within their policy.


----------



## susie (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

Sorry if my query was unclear. 

No, I do not mean a fine for smoking in a non-smoking room, I mean when a smoking room is requested the guest is informed the hotel has a total non-smoking policy and fine will be imposed should evidence of smoking is found in room.

However, my real query is, if the legislation states that a rented room is one's home for the duration of their stay, is it unreasonable then to expect a facility would be provided, perhaps smoking rooms of one floor?


----------



## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

What legislation are you talking about, specifically.


----------



## mathepac (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

Presumably this (in summary form) - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...ty/ban_on_smoking_in_the_workplace_in_ireland

OP may be confused about this - "The Government has stated that even though certain places are exempt  from the ban, *all employers*  (even those who are exempt) *still have  the right* to *enforce the legislation*. In other words,  even though the above organisations and institutions are not obliged to  enforce the ban, they are free to do so if they wish."


----------



## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

Also, I assume it doesn't matter if something is unreasonable (which is a subjective opinion)  if its legal.


----------



## huskerdu (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*



mathepac said:


> Presumably this (in summary form) - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...ty/ban_on_smoking_in_the_workplace_in_ireland
> 
> OP may be confused about this - "The Government has stated that even though certain places are exempt  from the ban, *all employers*  (even those who are exempt) *still have  the right* to *enforce the legislation*. In other words,  even though the above organisations and institutions are not obliged to  enforce the ban, they are free to do so if they wish."



Thanks for clarifying that. So, in answer to the OPs questions, a hotel does not have a legal obligation to provide a smoking room. 

I would be horrified if it did.


----------



## steph1 (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: smoking & hotel bedrooms*

Before booking into a hotel always check that smoking rooms are available in the hotel I smoke myself and always do this and if its not clear on their website ring them and check.  You have to request a smoking room when you are checking in at reception although a few times I have been asked straightaway if I required a smoking room.
Funny thing is I have been in a few hotels over the last two years and requested a smoking room.  Then had to ring around looking for an ashtray


----------



## tetStevens (26 May 2010)

steph1 said:


> Before booking into a hotel always check that smoking rooms are available in the hotel I smoke myself and always do this and if its not clear on their website ring them and check.  You have to request a smoking room when you are checking in at reception although a few times I have been asked straightaway if I required a smoking room.
> Funny thing is I have been in a few hotels over the last two years and requested a smoking room.  Then had to ring around looking for an ashtray



Same here, I also smoke and most of the time, I encounter the same situation, smoking room with no ashtray at all.  While other hotels that have no smoking rooms suggests that I use the balcony instead.

I guess, these kind of policy depends on the hotel's discretion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
-C. S. Lewis


----------



## JoeB (30 Jun 2010)

I can see both sides to this.

People may have a reasonable expectation that they can smoke in the room.. they may be foreign for example, as if that explains everything...

But anyway, people might expect to be allowed smoke, and may not ask for a smoking room, as why would they?, they may never have experienced a no-smoking hotel.


For example, if a hotel had 'no sleeping' rooms, as they'd be perfectly entitled to do if they wanted, ... I don't think they could fine people for sleeping in the rooms, as people had a reasonable expectation of being allowed to sleep in the room. Same thing with the smoking.


Mainly I think that for the hotels that are totally non-smoking.. this fact should be communicated to the customers before they pay, and before they book.


----------



## hippy1975 (30 Jun 2010)

Ridiculous comparison there between sleeping and smoking, smoking is not vital for life despite what some smokers seem to think (I'm a former smoker myself) and it's not a civi right either as the OP seems to think given the question on consumer rights


----------



## AlbacoreA (30 Jun 2010)

Sleeping in a room doesn't make it turn yellow, and create a smell thats almost impossible to remove from everything in the room.


----------



## JoeB (30 Jun 2010)

The point wasn't totally about sleeping.. it was about what reasonable beliefs people might hold about what they're entitled to do in a hotel room.

So people expect to be allowed sleep, and so if they weren't allowed that would have to be communicated to the customer, as reasonable  people wouldn't expect a ban on sleeping in a hotel room.

Smoking is similar, but not as black and white, ... many people would expect to be allowed to smoke with nearly the same certainity as they think they'd be allowed sleep...  so if they cannot smoke the hotel must make it clear. I think no smoking hotels are limiting their customer base, but it is their choice. People may not book weddings or conferences in such a hotel, but then maybe other people would be more likely to book...

What about the following policies, 'no drinking alcohol', 'no sex', or 'no gay sex'... I'm sure each of these is implemented in a hotel or B&B somewhere... the customer should be told before booking if any of them apply, or smoking.


----------



## AlbacoreA (30 Jun 2010)

Smoking is not similar. Its that simple.


----------



## JoeB (30 Jun 2010)

Yes,  smoking is not similar to sleeping or having sex... however it's the right to smoke, or the right to sleep, or the right to have sex that could be considered similar, hence my comparision.

I feel people's expectations about the uses to which their hotel room can be put would vary, and that many people would expect to be allowed smoke, or to have sex. Hence the need for hotels to clarify what can and can't be done.


----------



## AlbacoreA (30 Jun 2010)

There is no right to smoke.


----------



## JoeB (30 Jun 2010)

That's fine, as long as it's made clear.. otherwise the hotel may have mis-sold the room.

In the OPs case... Susie wasn't aware it seems that the hotel was totally non-smoking, if she made the booking without being told this I think she should receive a full refund. If the hotel refused to give a full refund I'd say that they'd be wrong to do so.


----------



## Padraigb (30 Jun 2010)

I'm a smoker. I spent last weekend in a hotel. When booking, I didn't ask what the hotel's policy was on smoking, nor was I asked what my preferences were. We were assigned a non-smoking room -- that was the only type of room they had as it's a totally non-smoking premises. That didn't bother me at all, as I never smoke in bedrooms. I didn't feel I had been mis-sold, and would think it unreasonable to ask for any, let alone all, of my money back.

[My principal smoking companion in the great smoking zone known as "outside" was the hotel's proprietor.]


----------



## txirimiri (30 Jun 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> I can see both sides to this.
> 
> People may have a reasonable expectation that they can smoke in the room.. they may be foreign for example, as if that explains everything...
> 
> ...


----------



## thedaras (30 Jun 2010)

I started a thread about something similar a while ago,maybe check that out and see what replys were given..

Interesting that those who told the hotel they required a smoking room ,where always facilitated in the end...

I would think there would be little chance of them turning down any customers these days,and most will do what they can ,under threat of taking your cutom elsewhere..


----------



## AlbacoreA (1 Jul 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> That's fine, as long as it's made clear.. otherwise the hotel may have mis-sold the room.
> 
> In the OPs case... Susie wasn't aware it seems that the hotel was totally non-smoking, if she made the booking without being told this I think she should receive a full refund. If the hotel refused to give a full refund I'd say that they'd be wrong to do so.


 
I'd say its bad business to refuse a refund. 

However I don't see that a hotel mis sold anything. if you have special requirement, its up to you mention it on booking.


----------



## JoeB (2 Jul 2010)

Taximiri.. In Ireland we have completely no smoking hotels, so asking for a smoking room does you no good, they don't have any, just large fines for smoking.


I don't see smoking as a special requirement... that's the point, but times do indeed seem to be a-changing. My examples.. no-one would consider having sex to be a special requirement, and a customer could be rightfully upset if the hotel had a rule banning it.

My own view is that a smoker should not have to specially ask if smokers are accommadated, it should be assumed that smoking is allowed, at least in some rooms. But this seems to be changing, and I can see a day, not too far off it appears, when smokers must ask.. however I don't think that day is today, and the OP didn't ask, and was dissapointed when she arrived.


----------



## AlbacoreA (2 Jul 2010)

Seems to be a problem of perspective here. 

Smokers don't notice the impact smoking has on others. Ignoring the health issues for a moment, or the law. Smokers usually don't even notice the smell of smoke, whereas its very noticeable to others.  A non smoker usually can't stand the smell of smoke, especially stale smoke in a room and off everything in a room. Smoking permeates everything in the room, and stains walls, ceilings etc. So its not like you can open a window and then re-rent the room as non smoking room. Cleaning a smoking room back to the level of a non smoking room is a major job. That has a cost. By smoking in a room you make it off limits for non smokers. That is also going to have a cost impact. As there are more customers who are non smokers. 

Therefore it in no way similar to sleeping, or sex which were the ludicrous comparisons made earlier. 

When you go to another country you should be aware of the rules/laws. Ignorance is no defence.


----------



## AlbacoreA (2 Jul 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> ...OP didn't ask, and was dissapointed when she arrived.



Did the OP say that?


----------



## Dicette (2 Jul 2010)

AlbacoreA said:


> There is no right to smoke.


 

I was at a Massive Attack gig a few years ago and they had a ticker-tape thingy going in the background relating to peolple's freedoms being compromised and human rights violated - most items were along the lines of Rendition Flights etc - all very noble, then in the middle of it was "The Right to Smoke" - have to say, they lost me there.

Re smokers, smoking in non-smoking rooms - this is a big issue for hotels - as a non-smoker on more than one occasion I have asked to change rooms, when I have been assigned a "non-smoking" room that smells of smoke. 
As the majority of people are non-smokers, it makes business sense for a hotel to have a majority of their rooms designated non-smoking.


----------

