# Under investigation for rent allowance fraud



## snowballdog (13 Oct 2009)

I'm looking for advice, please bear with me, thanks.

I recently separated from my husband, I left. I'm claiming job seekers allowance for myself alone but the higher rent allowance rate as our two children stay with me half the time.

I have done a small bit of work for cash from home for some time but it has never been enough to survive on. 

I got a letter from the community welfare officer 2 weeks ago stating that my claim had been suspended pending investigation they were looking for my bank details, a form to be completed by my employer and for self employment and details of my partners income. 

I have been seeing someone but he is not my "partner", he has his own house and doesn't live with me, we are only together a few months. 

Apparently there was a complaint that I was working and living with someone. Clearly this complaint was by someone being malicious as the breakup with my husband was quite difficult, I have my suspicions. someone has been watching the house and saw my boyfriends car from time to time.
Citizens information said I am not allowed to know who made the complaint...IS THIS TRUE??

I got a letter from the person who gives me the work saying I don't work for him and never have also I have the CWO my bank details, they thought there was a lot of money going in but it was easily explained. 

she and a colleague arrived at my house the following day unnannounced, clearly in my opinion to catch me out, i have been doing some work voluntarily of late and was requested to provide a letter to this effect which i since have done. unfortunately my boyfriend was at the house when they arrived and they were incredibly rude to him, I was very distressed and upset by this and would like to complain only I don't want this to affect my claim. They also questioned why I left the family home and not my husband. IS THIS ANY OF THEIR BUSINESS? 

I was approved for emergency rent allowance pending a separation agreement as the house is in my name, thus knowing this I rented a house, borrowed the deposit and signed a 12 month lease. ARE THEY ALLOWED TO GO BACK ON THIS DECISION EVEN THOUGH IT WAS APPROVED AT THE TIME?

ARE THEY ALLOWED TO SHOW UP UNANNOUNCED LIKE THIS??

After I have put money in the bank to make sure I can meet my commitments I have had 10 euro to live on each week for the last 2 weeks. I'm cold and I can't afford oil. My sister lives 30 miles away and has been really ill and I can't afford the petrol to visit her. 

HOW LONG DOES THIS PROCESS USUALLY TAKE AND WITHOUT HARD EVIDENCE CAN THEY REALLY CUT ME OFF? CAN THEY DO THAT ON JUST A COMPLAINT?

DOES SNOOPING AND SPYING AND STALKING COME UNDER THE JOB DESCRIPTION OR AM I JUST BEING PARANOID? ARE THEY JUST OFFICE PEN PUSHERS OR IS THERE MORE TO THE JOB THAN THAT?

thanks

any advice appreciated.


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## j26 (14 Oct 2009)

snowballdog said:


> I got a letter from the person who gives me the work saying I don't work for him and never have


You've just admitted fraud there, so don't expect much sympathy

IS THIS TRUE?? - Don't know

They also questioned why I left the family home and not my husband. IS THIS ANY OF THEIR BUSINESS? Since you're claiming State funds, they are entitled to know why, particularly if it would be cheaper for you to have stayed and him to have left.

ARE THEY ALLOWED TO GO BACK ON THIS DECISION EVEN THOUGH IT WAS APPROVED AT THE TIME? - you said yourself it was emergency approval, so obviously it is provisional on your claim being valid

ARE THEY ALLOWED TO SHOW UP UNANNOUNCED LIKE THIS?? - Yes, but you are not obliged to let them in.  On the other hand if you refuse entry without a good reason it doesn't help your claim as you're not cooperating.

 HOW LONG DOES THIS PROCESS USUALLY TAKE AND WITHOUT HARD EVIDENCE CAN THEY REALLY CUT ME OFF? CAN THEY DO THAT ON JUST A COMPLAINT? They will look for evidence, and it sounds like they have some - unexplained amounts in a bank account, a person hanging around.  Whether that's enough, I don't know, and I have no idea how long it will take.  

DOES SNOOPING AND SPYING AND STALKING COME UNDER THE JOB DESCRIPTION OR AM I JUST BEING PARANOID? ARE THEY JUST OFFICE PEN PUSHERS OR IS THERE MORE TO THE JOB THAN THAT? Not snooping, but certainly investigating.  They are either Community Welfare Officers (from the HSE) or Social Welfare INSPECTORS (the clue is in the job title)  Do you really expect that everything you say will be taken as gospel?  They will look at the evidence.

any advice appreciated. - come clean.


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## snowballdog (14 Oct 2009)

HOW LONG DOES THIS PROCESS USUALLY TAKE AND WITHOUT HARD EVIDENCE CAN THEY REALLY CUT ME OFF? CAN THEY DO THAT ON JUST A COMPLAINT? They will look for evidence, and it sounds like they have some - unexplained amounts in a bank account, a person hanging around.  Whether that's enough, I don't know, and I have no idea how long it will take.  

I already said that I explained the amounts and they are legitimate, I am allowed to have friends/visitors, "emm sorry no, I can't get involved with you unless you are prepared to support me immediately...and you certainly can't come into my home unless you're prepared to help me with the rent". He owns his own house. I also wouldn't have thought rudeness to me and to visitors in my home would come under the job description.
 
DOES SNOOPING AND SPYING AND STALKING COME UNDER THE JOB DESCRIPTION OR AM I JUST BEING PARANOID? ARE THEY JUST OFFICE PEN PUSHERS OR IS THERE MORE TO THE JOB THAN THAT? Not snooping, but certainly investigating.  They are either Community Welfare Officers (from the HSE) or Social Welfare INSPECTORS (the clue is in the job title)  Do you really expect that everything you say will be taken as gospel?  They will look at the evidence.

there is no evidence, just heresay.

any advice appreciated. - come clean.[/quote]

not an option

 not helpful and all rather patronising to be honest


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## Bronte (14 Oct 2009)

If you have done something incorrect then I think you should come clean.  You may find the CWO sympathetic, they do understand about marriage break up and such like.  Presumable they have reasons for asking certain questions and they have a job to do which includes making sure that people are receiving what they are entitled to.  If you have answered their questions satisfactorily then I'm sure you won't be penalised.    

You have not specified how they were rude to your boyfriend.   But if he is only your boyfriend as versus your live in partner I don't see how they have any right to any of his details.  But you have stated that you were/are working part time and now you've gotton your 'employer' to make a false statement so how do you think the state officials are going to view you?  If you have done something wrong and come clean you just pay back what you owe and as far as I know you will still be entitled to welfare benefits based on your current circumstances.


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## j26 (14 Oct 2009)

snowballdog said:


> not helpful and all rather patronising to be honest



You asked several questions, I answered them.  However I don't like to see money given out on clainms that are not legitimate.

If you are concealing information (your work) from the investigators which might affect your claim, then you are engaged in fraud.  That's the simple truth, and I don't know how you have the neck to come onto a site where most of the members are complaining about tax and public spending being too high, and ask for assistance in defrauding the state.

And btw there is evidence - the extra money going into the account.  You can give an explanation, but that doesn't mean they have to believe it.   The person in the house is not conclusive evidence that you are living with someone, but it does lend some credence to the complaint, so it is likely that they will investigate further


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## truthseeker (14 Oct 2009)

snowballdog said:


> I got a letter from the person who gives me the work saying I don't work for him and never have also I have the CWO my bank details, they thought there was a lot of money going in but it was easily explained.


 
This is fraud. I dont understand what you have to complain about, you are committing fraud and are now being investigated. You are taking money off the state, paid for by the taxpayer and on top of that you are working and not declaring it. And then you complain because you are being investigated?

How often does your boyfriend stay over, if its more than 3 nights a week then that needs to be declared also.

So what if SW arrived unannounced? If you werent doing anything wrong then how would it matter when they arrive?

Its very hard to have sympathy tbh - you have admitted fraud.


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## Welfarite (14 Oct 2009)

The CWO/SWO or other investigator is entitled to query you fully where ther is the slightest evidence of any fraudulent claiming. From your post there would appear to be enough to warrant unannounced home visits and indepth interviewing and questioning, even under caution. A claim is not suspended lightly so, reading between the liens, there is more to this than youa re saying. 
They can call unannounced and can watch your movements, even videotape you, if needs be. They are not trying to 'catch you out', just ensuring that you are telling them the true domestic and monetary situation. They are acting on:

1. A report of alleged fraud
2. Working for cash in hand and not reporting this to SW.
3. Covering up this work with a false statement that you never worked (they nmay have evidence of this work and this letter will really put the cat among the pigeons)

I would suggest that you should not treat them as mere 'office pen-pushers' and that you treat their investigation seriously. Remember too that they are only looking at your Rent Allowance entitlements. They will have alerted SW who will no doubt be carrying out their own investigation into your JA claim and will probably be calling on you as well regarding that.


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## MandaC (14 Oct 2009)

Person who gives you the work and then lies about it should be prosecuted too.
Zero sympathy for liars I am afraid.

A lot of inconsistincies in the story.  SW perfectly right to investigate.


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## cookiedough (4 Nov 2009)

God have a heart this lady said in her post she does small amount of work so its not like she earning a wage. And if her boyfriend does stay that is hardly anything to do with the social welfare'

If your unfortunate enough to be on rent allowance which is one of the worst poverty traps there is, does that mean your not allowed be in a relathionship with some one new its ridiculous


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## eggerb (4 Nov 2009)

j26 said:


> ... _any advice appreciated._ - come clean.


 


welfarite said:


> i would suggest that you should not treat them as mere 'office pen-pushers' and that you treat their investigation seriously. Remember too that they are only looking at your rent allowance entitlements. They will have alerted sw who will no doubt be carrying out their own investigation into your ja claim and will probably be calling on you as well regarding that.


 

+1


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## dewdrop (4 Nov 2009)

I wonder do we all return to the Revenue small bits of cash that may come our way?


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## whampiri (8 Nov 2009)

maybe not, but when they come knocking I won't come running crying. fess up and take it as it is. To say that you sympathise with this is part of the reason(i did say part) this country is falling down the toilet. Failure to pay taxes=less revenue for govt=less money available to be pumped back into the system etc etc etc.


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