# wood pellet burner



## padraigsmith (7 Jul 2008)

Can anyone give me any information on wood pellet burners?  Is it the way to go?  Which one to buy? etc.  Thanks.


----------



## extopia (7 Jul 2008)

I've dealt with this company. Their site is good for general info.


----------



## WaterSprite (8 Jul 2008)

The stanley stoves website also has good info on what's available, going through the products for each service (cooking only, heat only, heat and water etc.)  It's also a good starting point for figuring out what you want to achieve.  SEI also good for grant information and they have links to approved suppliers whose webpages I'm sure will also have good info.

Sprite

p.s. Just realised my mistake here - the stanley stoves aren't wood pellet stoves - you can choose from  solid fuel, oil, gas etc depending on what system you want.  Sorry for bungle.  SEI certainly has info on wood pellets though.


----------



## yob (9 Jul 2008)

Had my boiler serviced,the engineer was explaining that 3 of his customers had changed to pellet burners,and have since gone back to oil,perhaps you should post thread asking if anyone is using pellets and there benefit,


----------



## LouthMan (9 Jul 2008)

It must be bad with the price of Oil ! What do you use Yob ?


----------



## ninsaga (9 Jul 2008)

Would be interesting to know why these people switched back to oil.... but I can guess a couple of reasons.....
- they are buying pellets bagged instead of bulk - costs twice as much
- the boiler they have is at the bottom end of the market ie. Gerkos perhaps which I read somewhere has issues with regulating heat & also require regular cleaning & emptying the ash pan every day or so - enough to put anyone off!

- top of the range boilers take care of all that stuff but cost a fortune ie €12-14k.

Have no direct experience myself as I'm using gas - but I did check them out quite a bit in the past.


----------



## LouthMan (9 Jul 2008)

Thinking of putting one in my new house but which model is best ? Anyone ? Cost also ?


----------



## ninsaga (9 Jul 2008)

Windhager, KWB, ETA, Okefen, Froling... top of the range but priced as mentioned above.
Benekov would also be worth checking out - a little bit cheaper.


----------



## Duffman (9 Jul 2008)

ninsaga said:


> Would be interesting to know why these people switched back to oil.... but I can guess a couple of reasons.....
> - they are buying pellets bagged instead of bulk - costs twice as much
> - the boiler they have is at the bottom end of the market ie. Gerkos perhaps which I read somewhere has issues with regulating heat & also require regular cleaning & emptying the ash pan every day or so - enough to put anyone off!
> 
> ...


 
Just some comments regarding Gerkros - I have a woodpecker boiler myself. 
-The only real issues with regulating heat is that it only seems to have half power & full power - not the most efficient way of doing things. However, its still reasonably efficient - am currently waiting for some sort of digital panel that will solve that problem by regulating over 5 levels.
-The ash pan only needs to be emptied once every two weeks at most even at the height of winter.
- Its recommended that it is cleaned out once a year. However, the cleaner it is the more efficient it is so I personally clean it 2 - 3 times a year. And the cleaning itself is effectively what an engineer would do if he was servicing it (bar changing elements etc) so by doing that yourself it saves money on maintenance (I personally wouldn't have a clue how to service an oil boiler).

In short - the boiler is good but the customer service from gerkros is simply crap. If you can buy the gerkros boiler from someone else & ensure you have some sort of service back-up then you should be ok.


----------



## ninsaga (9 Jul 2008)

Ok Duffman...thanks for clarifying


----------



## yob (10 Jul 2008)

i use oil louthman,was looking to change to pellets 2 years ago,but got alot of negative feed back,and as has been explained above very expensive(buy alot of oil for 12-14 thousand even at todays prices).
hi ninsaga,it would appear to be  due to inefficancey,and the rads didn't get as hot as with the oil.
dont know how they where buying the pelletts,but i believe one guy had difficulty getting them and was without for over a week.so i stayed with the oil.but i did install the solar panels.


----------



## LouthMan (10 Jul 2008)

Borrow the 14K and it ends up at 28K. How long would that take to make up the difference on the savings ? Has anyone done a ROI on Oil and wood chip/pellet ? Take 15 years to start saving ?


----------



## Chuckles (10 Jul 2008)

Spoke with a guy earlier this week who is using a woodpellet boiler(can't remember which brand) he had it installed last year and said he bought the minimum delivery,3 tonne at the begining of November at a cost of €600 and it brought him right through to April this year... thats the winter covered for far less than the price he reckons it would have cost him on oil. 

He kept his oil burner and tank for the very reason that people have mentioned, all the horror stories that he'd heard. He said his average burn time on the boiler was for 7 - 8 hours per day over the winter and that the downsides on a pellet system were that unlike oil, you couldnt boost the system for an hour and feel the benefit of heat in the rad's like you can with oil as wood pellet takes a little longer for the heat to get going but, on the cost side, it was far more feasible than oil.

I think he mentioned that he paid 6 or 6.5k for the boiler and got a 4.5k grant but, this is now reduced to 3k but, that was just the boiler, the pluming and that would have been extra I'm sure


----------



## ciaranie (10 Jul 2008)

Has anyone heard of the Kunzel PL15 pellet boiler?


----------



## Prankster (11 Jul 2008)

also have a woodpecker, in a year, going grand, bit of maintenance required but not much. cost me 1500ish net (sei grant) to get it+have it  installed, beats paying 15k for top of the range jobbie. effiency is good, pellets easy to get, and they're not oil. nice smell when she starts up, also beats fumes from oil burner.
guy who installed it serviced it about a week ago, nothing wrong with it, just a yearly thang.
just using it at mo to heat water, using very few pellets.
re: using the boost option, they would be as nearly as quick surely as an oil boiler if connected to rads?


----------



## string11 (14 Jul 2008)

Kunzel PL15 is a top of the range machine and costs about 8000 from www.whi.ie also i live in N Ireland and wood pellets cost 130 a ton so heating my house with kunzel will save me 1100 a year


----------



## sidzer (14 Jul 2008)

Eco-Friendly friends of mine had a wood pellet burner installed in their new cottage house - not sure what make but it caused major heartache.. Some trouble with electrics - very bad service from the agent - pellets were stored in a wooden shed and started to get damp and stick in the hopper. In the end they took it out and put in oil!!! 

Pity - It was a beautie in the kitchen - nice flame and smell when it was working. 

I still think its worth researching with the way oil is going.

Best of luck


----------



## chimpster (14 Jul 2008)

sidzer said:


> pellets were stored in a wooden shed and started to get damp and stick in the hopper.



You wouldn't store oil in and self made container in a shed and wood pellets need to be treated in the same fashion.

Either buy a proper bulk silo or get guidance on building a proper stroage facility from marine ply.


----------



## jackswift (15 Jul 2008)

sidzer said:


> Eco-Friendly friends of mine had a wood pellet burner installed in their new cottage house - not sure what make but it caused major heartache.. Some trouble with electrics - very bad service from the agent - pellets were stored in a wooden shed and started to get damp and stick in the hopper. In the end they took it out and put in oil!!!
> 
> Pity - It was a beautie in the kitchen - nice flame and smell when it was working.
> 
> ...


 Why do everyone think that wood pellets are eco-friendly? For starters wood pellets need to be dried to 95% dry matter this uses a lot of diesel which is why they are so dear to buy. The drying process is not eco-friendly. They need to be stored very well to stop them getting damp otherwise they won't burn.


----------



## Mrs Aol (15 Jul 2008)

We have a Wamsler wood pellet stove with integral boiler. We have it a year now and are very very happy with it. 

I think you'll find that alot/most of the people with negative stories and things to say don't actually have wood pellet stoves/boilers themselves.


----------



## jackswift (16 Jul 2008)

Mrs Aol said:


> We have a Wamsler wood pellet stove with integral boiler. We have it a year now and are very very happy with it.
> 
> I think you'll find that alot/most of the people with negative stories and things to say don't actually have wood pellet stoves/boilers themselves.


 For your information I have a Wamsler wood pellet stove just like yours.


----------



## Mrs Aol (16 Jul 2008)

quite simply, jackswift, I don't believe that you do.

before this goes any further, let me say that I will not be drawn into your time wasting games and will make no further comments towards you.


----------



## Leo (16 Jul 2008)

Mrs Aol said:


> quite simply, jackswift, I don't believe that you do.
> 
> before this goes any further, let me say that I will not be drawn into your time wasting games and will make no further comments towards you.


 
That's some leap based on the information given. 

If you're not prepared to back up your comments or assumptions, then perhaps AAM, let alone any online forum, may not be the place for you.
Leo


----------



## ninsaga (16 Jul 2008)

mrs Aol said:


> quite Simply, Jackswift, I Don't Believe That You Do.
> 
> Before This Goes Any Further, Let Me Say That I Will Not Be Drawn Into Your Time Wasting Games And Will Make No Further Comments Towards You.



Meeeeeeooooooowww!


----------



## DavyJones (16 Jul 2008)

Mrs Aol said:


> We have a Wamsler wood pellet stove with integral boiler. We have it a year now and are very very happy with it.
> 
> I think you'll find that alot/most of the people with negative stories and things to say don't actually have wood pellet stoves/boilers themselves.



I work in the industry and would not fit one in my home under any circumstances, Condensing boilers are the way forward. In the last 6 weeks I know 2 people who have pulled out their wood pellet boilers and a lot more considering doing the same.


----------



## lastbuilders (16 Jul 2008)

I have had a Dor / Scotte wood pellet boiler for the last 18 months with no problems to report. Pellet costs last year about 6oo euros which I believe is a good saving on oil. There is more maintenance with it as you have to empty ashes but I knew this before installing it. 

Lastbuilders


----------



## stevo (16 Jul 2008)

Davy Jones,

I am tempted to install a condensing boiler in my own home but recently heard Gas prices are to rise by 40% in the near future, would you still recommend them ?

I believe condensing boilers are particularily suited to UFH due to the low temp they can operate at when heating the water


----------



## DavyJones (16 Jul 2008)

stevo said:


> Davy Jones,
> 
> I am tempted to install a condensing boiler in my own home but recently heard Gas prices are to rise by 40% in the near future, would you still recommend them ?
> 
> I believe condensing boilers are particularily suited to UFH due to the low temp they can operate at when heating the water



yes, they claim to be 98% efficient compared to around 70% for standard boiler. Wood pellet burners in my opinion is only  a fad, I'll wait for something better to come along.


----------



## badabing (16 Jul 2008)

jackswift said:


> Why do everyone think that wood pellets are eco-friendly? For starters wood pellets need to be dried to 95% dry matter this uses a lot of diesel which is why they are so dear to buy. The drying process is not eco-friendly. They need to be stored very well to stop them getting damp otherwise they won't burn.




Been reading the posts and alot of rumours to dispel here
Pellets are dried with wood, not diesel, when buying in bulk they are not dear to buy, cheaper than on the continent in fact and the price has been steady over the last 3 years.
3 golden rules when installing a pellet boiler
-Good plumbing, nothing fancy, in fact the simpler the better, good tall flue and a hot water storage to balance out the load.
-decent sized silo
-half decent brand supplied by someone with a track record


98% efficiency from a condensing gas boiler?..highly unlikely in practice. In my experience its not hard to get in the high 80's throuhout the year on pellets


----------



## ninsaga (17 Jul 2008)

DavyJones said:


> ..........Condensing boilers are the way forward. ........



..now that's a bit short sighted ...... why is it that in Austria/Germany that wood pellet boilers have been in use for 20 yrs yet you would consider that condensing boilers are the way forward. If they wee that bad then I'm sure they would not have taken off over their either.

I think the problems here have been...
- rising costs of pellets
- lack of availability of pellets last year or year before
- previous problems with Balcas pellets (now stablised as far as I know) ie the pellets were to long & alot of dust in bulk deliveries.
- some boilers not modulating or inefficient
- most models of boilers require cleaning & emptying the ash pan
- people buying bagged pellets (much more expensive than bulk)
- having to make provisions for a silo

I hear of people (though here), who are switching back to oil - would be interested to know exactly though what their particular reasons are


----------



## DavyJones (17 Jul 2008)

ninsaga said:


> ..now that's a bit short sighted ...... why is it that in Austria/Germany that wood pellet boilers have been in use for 20 yrs yet you would consider that condensing boilers are the way forward. If they wee that bad then I'm sure they would not have taken off over their either.



Short sighted, I think not. When I say condensing boiler I mean the actual way the boiler works and not the type of fuel it uses. Do you know that an oil burner will burn pure and used vegetable oil with just slight modifacation. that is the way forward. Anybody burning keresone can make the switch with very little cost.

 Until wood pellet burners improve for the resons you mention, I for one would not touch them.


----------



## krissovo (17 Jul 2008)

I am building at the moment and very interested in this thread as the plan was to use wood pellets.

I think I want to know the truth, there is a lot hearsay from what I can gather on this thread so if any one has facts then step forward and offer you opinion.  I built a couple of years ago and put in a woodchip boiler unfortunately I didnt end up living in the house so I cannot form an opinion.

If you do not want to post then please PM your advice/experience


----------



## Duffman (17 Jul 2008)

DavyJones said:


> I work in the industry and would not fit one in my home under any circumstances, Condensing boilers are the way forward. In the last 6 weeks I know 2 people who have pulled out their wood pellet boilers and a lot more considering doing the same.


 
Can you just clarify what part of the industry you are in?  I'll presume its not in the wood pellet industry anyway - would it be oil by any chance?

I notice that so far the only really negative posts about wood pellet boilers have been from people who don't have them - but of course they all 'know people who did but had them taken out.'   
Look back through the posts from those who do have pellet boilers & generally they recount positive experiences.


----------



## jackswift (17 Jul 2008)

badabing said:


> Been reading the posts and alot of rumours to dispel here
> Pellets are dried with wood, not diesel,



The sawdust has to be dried to 92% dry matter before the pellet making process begins, it is not made into pellets first and then dried. Could you post a link explaining how the sawdust is dried with wood.


----------



## DavyJones (17 Jul 2008)

Duffman said:


> Can you just clarify what part of the industry you are in?  I'll presume its not in the wood pellet industry anyway - would it be oil by any chance?
> 
> I notice that so far the only really negative posts about wood pellet boilers have been from people who don't have them - but of course they all 'know people who did but had them taken out.'
> Look back through the posts from those who do have pellet boilers & generally they recount positive experiences.



I run a heating and plumbing business, We also fit renewable energy products like solar panels and wood pellet burners. We are also certified to fit oil and gas appliances, both natural and LPG.

My cilents are normally well informed people both private and commercially. We get a spec and we do the work accordly. If you wanted us to fit a boiler that runs on potatoe skins we would do it.Evryone for there own. 

I am giving my personal opinion on this matter and firmly belive that condensing boilers of any fuel are a better choice with regard to installation and running costs.

wood pellet boilers have a future but only if they are massively improved. ~People want appliances with little or no maintance. I belive in the next 5 - 10 years there will be much better products out there so I wouldn't invest in them now,IMHO.

I think the same about solar panels, they too have a whole lot of improving to do. 

I also have no connections to any manufactur or fuel supplier I.E oil/gas/wood pellet


----------



## Duffman (17 Jul 2008)

DavyJones said:


> I run a heating and plumbing business, We also fit renewable energy products like solar panels and wood pellet burners. We are also certified to fit oil and gas appliances, both natural and LPG.
> 
> My cilents are normally well informed people both private and commercially. We get a spec and we do the work accordly. If you wanted us to fit a boiler that runs on potatoe skins we would do it.Evryone for there own.
> 
> ...


 
Well thats fair enough. But as I stated on a previous post, I personally have had no problems with my wood pellet boiler - except with after sales service which was non-existant - but that depends on the supplier. I still haven't seen a post on here from one of the "many" people who have changed back to oil. As a previous poster said, all the negative comments are from people who have never had one.


----------



## DavyJones (17 Jul 2008)

Duffman said:


> Well thats fair enough. But as I stated on a previous post, I personally have had no problems with my wood pellet boiler - except with after sales service which was non-existant - but that depends on the supplier. I still haven't seen a post on here from one of the "many" people who have changed back to oil. As a previous poster said, all the negative comments are from people who have never had one.



I understand where you are coming from. In the last few months we have change 3 or 4 back and are doing another one next week. Main reason was after- sales and no support of the product when there was a problem. However that is 5 people out of hundreds that have them. Nobody will ever call me up to tell me how good their boiler is running so I hear only the negatives. one of our installers won't fit wood pellet boilers anymore because of the lack of support from the manufactur and he ending up taking the flak when there was faults.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they work for some people, but I know there are too many potenial problems with the bulk of the units I have come across. However they will improve


----------



## badabing (17 Jul 2008)

jackswift said:


> The sawdust has to be dried to 92% dry matter before the pellet making process begins, it is not made into pellets first and then dried. Could you post a link explaining how the sawdust is dried with wood.



a wood fired furnace generates all the heat required


----------



## ElviswasGree (5 Feb 2009)

Wood Pellets make up 25% of the Swedish heating market.  95% of that is bag fed.  Pellets are eco friendly if made in a Combined Heat and Power Plant that effectively uses 1 tonne of saw dust to heat the other 1 tonne of saw dust that becomes your pellets.  No diesel.  Each and every boiler is basically the same, its the back up and explanation of operating from agents that differs.  For too long we have all been used to oil - no serevicing (very inefficient then) and not properly commissioned (waste of energy with too high psi in the oil line).

Pellets work well, they do require a bit of work, no where the same as the open fire/back boiler.  They are cheap to run, provided they are sized right.  I ahve seen guys with 30=40kW in houses 2000 sq ft!!  Madness and stupidity.  20kW is the max any house should need.  Buffers are a good way to go as they do allow for that 1 hour boost.  Gerkros boilers are loading boilers, and effectively any house over 2000 sq ft should have a buffer.  This is due to the water content, 75 litres.  If you look at the Scandanavian models they have water content of about 200 litres.  This means they can function well without buffers.  Do not listen to SEI and their nonsense about 60 litres per kW - crap!!  The Froeling has stainless steel inside which adds more cost, but this only menas you dont need to brush the inside walls - I for one would happily brish inside the boiler walls to save about €8,000!!  It is so importnat to get a good installer/agent with service contracts and an attitude taht cares for what they do.  I could reccomend a few.


----------



## Rathlynin (7 Feb 2009)

Put in a Gerkros Woodpecker for my brother in law in Meath in 2006 and he saved a fotune last year v's oil......The simpler the boiler the better...great name for a boiler too eh!


----------

