# Is it legal to ban children from a pub in Ireland at any time of day?



## queenlex (11 May 2008)

Hi everyone,

I have noticed in Britain there are some pubs that have a 'no children at any time' policy and I was wondering if this is legal to ban children at all times in Ireland?

Many thanks in advance,

Q


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## Complainer (11 May 2008)

queenlex said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have noticed in Britain there are some pubs that have a 'no children at any time' policy and I was wondering if this is legal to ban children at all times in Ireland?


I have a vague memory of a pub in Wicklow (Ashford?) losing an Equality Tribunal case some years ago when they refused entry to a parent with a child. Check the case histories on the Tribunal website.


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## ajapale (11 May 2008)

"Matt the Treshers" in Birdhill Co Tipperary operate an child unfriendly policy. I remember a representative of the company that owns it defending the policy on radio some time ago.

I think the law in the UK is different. Have you ever seen kids in The Rovers Return in Coronation St?

Many pubs, coffee shops, restaurants operate a no buggy policy which they justify in terms of H&S.


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## Complainer (11 May 2008)

ajapale said:


> "Matt the Treshers" in Birdhill Co Tipperary operate an child unfriendly policy. I remember a representative of the company that owns it defending the policy on radio some time ago.


I stopped off in Matt's recently, and noticed a point on the menu stating that 'crying children must be removed'. While I always would remove a crying child (well, my own child anyway), I thought it was a little gruff.


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## Bob the slob (12 May 2008)

Pubs are not a place for children anyway.  I dont think they should be banned but I do think they should have to be gone at 5 o clock or so.


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## Complainer (12 May 2008)

Bob the slob said:


> Pubs are not a place for children anyway.  I dont think they should be banned but I do think they should have to be gone at 5 o clock or so.


The distinction between pubs and restaurants is getting more and more blurred. THere is nothing wrong with a family (including kids) enjoying a family meal in a pub.


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## ButtermilkJa (12 May 2008)

Not sure if it's the law, but as far as I know most pubs operate a "No children after 9pm" rule.

EDIT: 2004 [broken link removed] mentions '9pm' law.


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## FredBloggs (12 May 2008)

Complainer said:


> I stopped off in Matt's recently, and noticed a point on the menu stating that 'crying children must be removed'. While I always would remove a crying child (well, my own child anyway), I thought it was a little gruff.


 
Matt the Threshers (for those who don't know it) is on the main Dublin Limerick Road and a stopping off point for those who wish to refuel before continuing their journey.  They do not have big notices outside saying "NO Children Allowed!" so they are going to get a fair proportion of children as those travelling with children are more likely to stop.  Children cry and that's a fact of life - especially if they are in the middle of a long car journey and are tired or frustrated or have a dirty nappy or need some food.  
I have stopped there both with and with without my children and while it is annoying to be near boisterous/crying children when you don't have any with you I think the layout of Matt The Threshers is such that a child could be crying near you and it wouldn't have much effect on you.  (Much of the seating is in alcoves). 
I would however remove any of my children who were crying but I agree with Complainer that the direction on the menu is a bit gruff. 
Anyway I won't be going back there with or without my children - in fact I've passed it on my own several times in the last few months.  The reson for this is that the last time I called in a lady who I think is the owner/managers wife was very cool to us when we arrived.  This despite the fact that for once my children were impeccably behaved.  Also it was not a busy time and the clientelle already there were almost exclusively families.  We got the distinct impression from her that our business was not welcome. As did a family who were seated near us.

Sorry for the long thread but once I saw Matt The Thresher mentioned I had to have a rant.

(By the way I am 100% in agreement that children should not be in pubs when their parents are drinking or at night but this was at 3pm and Matt the Thresers is oprimarily a restaurant during the day)


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## MsGinger (12 May 2008)

I worked in pubs in the UK while I was in college there and I think I remember there being a specific licence you needed to have in order to allow children on the premises.  If you didn't have the licence you couldn't allow children on the premises at any time.


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## truthseeker (12 May 2008)

I dont think its appropriate for children to be in pubs at any time of the day or night. The primary function of a pub is for drinking alcohol in. I would never bring children to a pub for a family meal - not because I was worried about the effects of my children on others, but because Id rather not expose my children to people drinking their heads off and bad language being bandied about and the whole athmosphere that goes with it.

I agree the line between restaurants and pubs are becoming blurred but the restaurant/pub hybrids are still public houses no matter how nice the food is and in Irelands culture that means a generous sprinkling of heavy drinkers propping up the bar.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

Why/how is this an ask about business question?


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## Bronte (13 May 2008)

I went to a hotel recently with kids for lunch, very open plan layout and hard to tell the difference between the restaurant and bar,  after much looking only suitable table was in the bar area (proper table with booths so easy to contain kids), we were informed we had to leave as no buggies allowed due to Health and Safety, we asked for a high chair so that we could fold the buggy and were refused.  Does anyone know if there is such a health and safety law?


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## ajapale (13 May 2008)

Purple said:


> Why/how is this an ask about business question?



Hi Purple,

Ive just noticed now that it is in the aab section. I can only assume that the op has or is planning a pub business and wants to know the legality in the RoI of banning children.

For instance Matt the Treshers is the "ryanair" of the hospitality world and I think it is a perfectly acceptable business model providing customers are aware of the policy.

aj


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## Complainer (13 May 2008)

Bronte said:


> I went to a hotel recently with kids for lunch, very open plan layout and hard to tell the difference between the restaurant and bar,  after much looking only suitable table was in the bar area (proper table with booths so easy to contain kids), we were informed we had to leave as no buggies allowed due to Health and Safety, we asked for a high chair so that we could fold the buggy and were refused.  Does anyone know if there is such a health and safety law?


There is certainly no explicit H&S law that says kids are not allowed in pubs, but most legislation is general. There is no explicit H&S law that says that Harley Davidson motorbikes should not be ridden around pubs either, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.

I'd have thought that a 'no buggy' rule could well breach equality legislation, as it is discriminatory against families. Contact the Equality Authority for more advice.


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## queenlex (13 May 2008)

ajapale said:


> Hi Purple,
> 
> Ive just noticed now that it is in the aab section. I can only assume that the op has or is planning a pub business and wants to know the legality in the RoI of banning children.


 
This was the original idea but I guess its not easy going by some of the responses, oh well, next idea...


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## Soldier (14 May 2008)

i think it depends on the pub really. if its pub/restaurant i dont see a problem with it i remember when i was young we used to go for funerals/christenings for meal and the kids would play pool and drink coke and orange with the old skinny straws and the packets of taytos. oh they were the days but now adays i guess things are a little different.


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## Lobby (14 May 2008)

Complainer said:


> I'd have thought that a 'no buggy' rule could well breach equality legislation, as it is discriminatory against families. Contact the Equality Authority for more advice.


 
Buggies block potential fire escape routes - well that was the excuse we were given in the Granville in Waterford.

(Needless to say, we won't be visiting that premises again - children with us or not)


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## MrMan (14 May 2008)

> but because Id rather not expose my children to people drinking their heads off and bad language being bandied about and the whole athmosphere that goes with it.



i think that really depends on the pub, the ones that I would go to are well run and while there is banter later on in the evening I wouldn't have thought it unsuitable for kids. The time to avoid for bad language may be when there is a match on the big screen.
To eat out only at restaurants with kids is an expensive business I would think.


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## truthseeker (14 May 2008)

MrMan said:


> i think that really depends on the pub, the ones that I would go to are well run and while there is banter later on in the evening I wouldn't have thought it unsuitable for kids. The time to avoid for bad language may be when there is a match on the big screen.
> To eat out only at restaurants with kids is an expensive business I would think.


 
It probably does depend on the pub alright - certainly my local (which does great food), while not a terrible place is not somewhere Id like to see kids in, there are a smattering of regulars who take up seats at the bar and there is a lot of banter at all times of the day.
Perhaps a more modern pub thats got less of a 'regular' thing going might not be so bad.
There are very reasonably priced restaurants that you could take kids to that would avoid the scenario I mean at all.


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## MPH (14 May 2008)

Under the most recent Intoxicating Liquor Act a decision whether or not to allow children in a pub is at the discretion of the licence holder.  Once a licenced premises is 100% one way or the other there are no discrimination/equality issues and it is perfectly legal to have a sign saying 'Children not allowed at any time'. Similar to having an Over 21's or Over 23's policy, if it is not enforced unilaterally but rather is used by management selectively then they leave themselves wide open to having discrimination cases taken against them.


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## S.L.F (14 May 2008)

I think this business of "no buggys" is a clear breach of equal rights because the same thing could be said for people in wheel chairs.

Would it be possible for someone could be told they can't come into the pub until they stop swinging that white stick because they might trip someone up.

All too often owners of pubs are using health and safety laws to keep people they don't want in their establishments.


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## ajapale (14 May 2008)

MPH said:


> Under the most recent Intoxicating Liquor Act a decision whether or not to allow children in a pub is at the discretion of the licence holder.  Once a licensed premises is 100% one way or the other there are no discrimination/equality issues and it is perfectly legal to have a sign saying 'Children not allowed at any time'. Similar to having an Over 21's or Over 23's policy, if it is not enforced unilaterally but rather is used by management selectively then they leave themselves wide open to having discrimination cases taken against them.



Thanks MPH for what appears to be the definitive answer to the original question.



> Is it legal to ban children from a pub in Ireland at any time of day?



Follow on discussion can continue in LOS but for now the question has been asked and answered.


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## Complainer (15 May 2008)

Lobby said:


> Buggies block potential fire escape routes - well that was the excuse we were given in the Granville in Waterford.
> 
> (Needless to say, we won't be visiting that premises again - children with us or not)


This is (as I'm sure you're aware) complete and utter BS. Any parent can easily store a buggy in a way that doesn't block any escape route.


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## ajapale (15 May 2008)

Question asked and answered.


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