# Is €1,900 expensive for a root canal & crown?



## TreeTiger

My new dentist (previous one just retired) told me today that I need a root canal and crown on a back tooth, and that it would cost €700 for the root canal and €1,200 for the crown.  Apparently that's saving me money as I could instead be referred to a specialist for the root canal which would be even dearer.

I'm shocked at the cost of this work and wonder is my new dentist particularly expensive or is this a fairly standard price?


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## Madilla

I had a root canal filling recently and the total cost was €400.


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## Vanilla

And I've just recently got a crown for €700.


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## michaelm

TreeTiger said:


> . . it would cost €700 for the root canal and €1,200 for the crown.  . . is this a fairly standard price?


Sounds dear to me.  I paid around €600 recently for a root canal.  I probably need a crown, €700 (second from back tooth).


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## flattea2

quoted 350 for a root canal only last week


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## heretohelp

had root canal recently for 700 and crown for 500


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## gebbel

TreeTiger said:


> My new dentist (previous one just retired) told me today that I need a root canal and crown on a back tooth, and that it would cost €700 for the root canal and €1,200 for the crown



Sounds like it's time to get another new dentist.


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## joanmul

I'm having a root canal and crown done in Newry for stg£593 over these few weeks.


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## aircobra19

Wonder where in the country ye are getting these prices and what type of practice is it. I've seen those kinda prices from Dentists in the D.4 area. Obviously if travel across the country and even to another country you are going to get it cheaper.


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## TreeTiger

aircobra19 said:


> Wonder where in the country ye are getting these prices and what type of practice is it.


It's in Dublin suburbia, ordinary practice, new dentist has just taken over from previous one who has retired.  Previous one just did ordinary stuff, no specialist areas so far as I'm aware. 

I'm glad to see that the quote I got doesn't seem normal, I was kind of wondering is a back tooth more complicated or something.  Never realised a mouthful of teeth were so valuable, don't adults have a couple of dozen teeth or more, it could get very expensive!  I know dentists are highly trained, and their equipment is expensive, and assistants have to be paid and so on, but really, is it not madness to expect an ordinary person to pay this sort of money?


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## eileen alana

Don't forget, you can claim tax relief on the cost of the treatment.


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## basamin

if it is a back tooth i would get it extracted.iwould only get a root canal and crown if i could see the tooth when smiling. extractions only cost €20 -€30 a major saving compared to €1900


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## aircobra19

Seems pricey for "Dublin suburbia, ordinary practice". Considering its the same as D4 prices. 

Some areas and practices are going to be more expensive than others. You can also shop around if you want a better price. As you can see from the above comments. Obviously there are good and bad dentists, and all range of prices. 

Having had experience of bad dentists, I would put value on a dentist that you've a good history with. Some people might not have the time free to take a few days off to go visit the Dentist, considering that root canals and crowns take multiple visits. If your self employed taking a couple of days off might cost more than the savings are worth. 

That said its huge money. Especially if you've more than one to do.


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## aircobra19

basamin said:


> if it is a back tooth i would get it extracted.iwould only get a root canal and crown if i could see the tooth when smiling. extractions only cost €20 -€30 a major saving compared to €1900



Seems unrealistically cheap for an extraction. The cost would depend on the tooth I'd assume. Some might be tricky. I assume you need your back teeth to chew, your fronts are for biting. No?


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## basamin

it is cheap for an extraction that is why dentists tell you that you need a root canal. also your back teeth push together over time to lesson the gap.so go back to your dentist and tell him you want to get the tooth extracted ,not your wallet!!


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## aircobra19

Well that comes down to if you want your tooth or not. If you've only a problem with one tooth, that might work. If you a problem with 3 or 4 then thats a different situation.


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## TreeTiger

Well in my case I had a back tooth on the same side extracted as a teenager by a very scary dentist, and some years later had wisdom teeth removed, so there would be more "space" than I'd like where the problematic tooth is.  I don't show all my teeth when I'm smiling but I probably do when I'm laughing!

But I think many people would be inclined to do the same thing as basamin suggests, I mean that sort of money would buy a family holiday.  I'm sure many people given a quote like I got wouldn't realise that dentists prices vary hugely (I didn't until yesterday  ) and would just have to lose a tooth as they couldn't afford nearly 2 grand to save it


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## aircobra19

Would most people with bridges and dentures prefer to have saved their teeth if they could. At what price? You're going to have your teeth for 50~60yrs, a family holiday is only 2 weeks.


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## crazyhorse

Hi TreeTiger

My dentist is based in D4, I recently had crown work done and it wasn't near the price you were quoted. It was in the region of 900 EUR, and you can claim tax back on this. He has done crown work for me previously that have lasted almost 10 years, still perfect, never a day's trouble.  

For major work I would definitely recommend getting a second opinion on this, and also asking for confirmation re 'life expectancy' of the crown work.

My regular dentist was on holiday and I went to a different one shortly before Christmas as I had some gum pain - he told me I needed 2 root canals! Lived with the pain until my usual dentist came back, he did a full check and advised that there was absolutely no way I needed root canal, and would refer me to the Dental Hospital if I wanted them to confirm his opinion.
Point is, there are some cowboy dentists out there. For major work like this, and given the price you were quoted it is worth getting a second opinion.


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## ophelia

What dentist only charges E20 - 30 for an extraction. My extraction cost E300, complicated one, with 8 stitches. I would never recommend anyone to get a tooth extracted unless there is absolutely no hope for it. Root canals and crowns are in general very successful, and are much better than getting dentures later on.


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## basamin

if you PM me i'll give you his name.like i said before dentists don't make money on extractions ,they make money on the more complicated procedures.


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## olivia

I have just been quoted 2000 € for 2 root canal and crown on 2 lower back teeth.  I live in surburban Galway.


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## olivia

.............my error - that was 4000 € - 2000€ per tooth


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## sam34

got a quote of 800 for a root canal, so got an extraction for 70 instead...


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## sparkeee

i got a crown a year ago for 150 euro and i am delighted with the work.


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## justsally

I am having a bottom back tooth root canal treated and crowned. Cost - Root canal treatment 500 Euro, crown 900 Euro. Extraction would be a last resort, the dentist said if I have it removed, as a consequence, I would lose the relevant upper bite tooth sooner rather than later. Btw, the treatment cost may depend on how many roots are on the tooth, i.e. more time etc. involved in treating same; the back tooth has 2 roots so probably more expensive than a single root. North Dublin.


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## agencydude

I recently paid €1350 in a D2 clinic for root canal treatment on a premolar tooth. 
The time in surgery was only 1.5 hrs 
It makes you think about going abroad to get treatment.
My normal dentist wouldn't do the treatment as he didn't have equipment.


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## Guest106

Could some competent person please tell us what it is that justifies the kind of expenditure that is being quoted here in posting after posting.  What I mean is what are the elements that give rise to this kind of expense, i.e. give the breakdown as regards costs.   Let's remember that in each individual case most of this work is done in an hour or so only to be followed by another similar patient and that could mean 6 to 8 patients per day and all at this phenomenal cost ?  Does the cash help to steady the dentist/orthodonist's nerves and hold stress in check or what ?  If the cost isn't in the materials then it must be accounted for largely by the time factor.  Clarification would be welcome and might well help us to bear these punitive payments.


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## Guest106

Interesting, isn't it ?.....how this thread has gone from "me too" "and me" to complete dryup once the crunch question is asked ?


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## PGD1

My wife was quoted some astronomical figure for an extraction. her local dentist advised that the person doing the extraction and the implant was the same one so she was referred to a specialist.

On the day she was told to pay her extraction money but the was told to pay 400 for the anesthetist and 800 for his drugs!!!!   so the extraction cost about 2000.

She recently went back for a checkup and was told the implant would be about 1000 (I can't remember the exact figure) and that she would again have to pay the 400 + 800.

She will still then have to pay for the crown.


By my reckoning the extraction, implant and crown is costing EUR7000.

How can this be? Are we being ripped off?  I know there can be differences between hard to access teeth, or complications for various reasons but it still seems like alot of money to me!!!


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## aircobra19

I'd like to a break down of it aswell.


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## teachai

Obviously there is a fair bit of expense in training to become a specialist in these areas, but some of the figures quoted here sound extortionate.  

The most I've paid for root canal treatment on a tooth is €650 and thats on tricky back teeth.  My dentist then has to do the crown (max €150).  

I can understand charges in less populated areas being higher, as the volume of customers going through the door is probably less than it would be in the greater Dublin area.

If you're prepared to travel, then you'll have far more options.


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## Ancutza

The prices quoted are scary, scary!! You all should be getting the work done abroad for heavens sake!


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## markowitzman

> My wife was quoted some astronomical figure for an extraction. her local dentist advised that the person doing the extraction and the implant was the same one so she was referred to a specialist.
> 
> On the day she was told to pay her extraction money but the was told to pay 400 for the anesthetist and 800 for his drugs!!!! so the extraction cost about 2000.
> 
> She recently went back for a checkup and was told the implant would be about 1000 (I can't remember the exact figure) and that she would again have to pay the 400 + 800.
> 
> She will still then have to pay for the crown.
> 
> 
> By my reckoning the extraction, implant and crown is costing EUR7000.
> 
> How can this be? Are we being ripped off? I know there can be differences between hard to access teeth, or complications for various reasons but it still seems like alot of money to me!!!


well done to your dentist for referring you for extraction with specialist.
The reason for this is the specialist needs to retain the maximum amount of bone during the extraction so as to allow the implant the best chance of success.
Expensive.......sure is..........worth it in the long term?.........undoubtedly!
Replacement of failed implants is nigh impossible so you only get one chance to get it right which is where the specialist comes in. Root canal same thing.......retreatment of failed root canals has a much lower success rate and are often more expensive.
People often have decisions to make in life on quality or price.
In healthcare often price means lower quality and in the realm of endodontics and prosthodontics especially so.
Don't make your decision solely on price but investigate and assure yourself you are getting quality.
Get second opinions etc etc and written estimates etc.
Good luck.


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## irash

I can't believe it!!! Nothing can justify this kind of prices!!!
Of cause we all want to keep our teeth at any cost, but maybe it's time to look at so called medical tourism.
I had root canal treatment and a ceramic crown done for... 100 euro in Ukraine. But you do not have to go that far.  Hungary, Poland and the Baltic states have these services available at 250-300 euro (and most doctors speak English there) Plus you can have a nice 3 day break abroad. And all of this within the price of 1 crown here. If one has a few teeth to do, isn't it the way?
The difference in price is not because the materials used or service are worse, it is because the dentists own work is very cheap there (i.e. a dentist in the Baltics makes 500-700 euro a month)


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## Mauri

My son lives in Belgium, in the past two weeks he has had, check, up xray, four fillings piece replaced on front tooth that was broken and repaired when a secondary school student. (The replacement piece was not successful even after two attempts in Ireland.),cleaning. The cost of this treatment was €100. His Belgium equivalent  PRSI  paid €250. Had he not had cover the cost would have been €350. Irish dentists explain please.


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## Ancutza

Well said Irash!! Many of my own circle of friends have travelled out to Romania to my dentist who has a state-of-the-art surgery, only works with french-manufactured materials and lectures internationally on reconstructive surgery.  

The price? Around a third of what it is in Ireland and thats after flights, hotels, meals etc. Loads of references available for this guy from satisfied Irish customers.

This whole scare-mongering thing by certain irish dentists about having work done abroad really gets my goat! You can't defend the indefensible, i.e. the irish guys are simply charging their clients too much.

Rant over! Sheeeeeessssssssssshhhhhhhhhh.....


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## aircobra19

Mauri said:


> My son lives in Belgium, in the past two weeks he has had, check, up xray, four fillings piece replaced on front tooth that was broken and repaired when a secondary school student. (The replacement piece was not successful even after two attempts in Ireland.),cleaning. The cost of this treatment was €100. His Belgium equivalent PRSI paid €250. Had he not had cover the cost would have been €350. Irish dentists explain please.


 
Are you talkng about crowns or fillings?


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## markowitzman

as a practising Irish dentist the situation with failed treatments abroad is getting worse and worse! Cases of completely infereior quality of work. Cases of complete overtreatment.....clinically I have seen numerous cases of maybe a crown or two needed and the patient returns with 8, 10 crowns!!!!!!!!!!! Cases with advanced prosthodontics rushed into a fortnight which should take a year or more to complete correctly. Cases with completely inferior root canal treatment with persistent bone infections underneath. Cases with implant failures within a year or two of surgery. Cases with failed crown and bridge work due to no attention given to the existing gum condition.  I could go on and on..... I could not give a damn where a patient goes for treatment........I am snowed under with  work and have never been busier!! What really worries me is the shocking work that I am seeing at an all too frequent basis from abroad. Media are now beginning to cotton on to this and recent interviews with university professors from Dublin and Cork eloquently detailed what I have said above. They are inundated with cases of failed treatment abroad. This situation is getting worse and worse and I feel so sorry for the patients so afflicted. With loosening of the advertising noose on us here in Ireland we should be much more able to deal with this crisis in the media.  Get a SECOND OPINION for any case involving proposed treatment which involves multiple crowns etc and implants.


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## irash

markowitzman said:


> Get a SECOND OPINION for any case involving proposed treatment which involves multiple crowns etc and implants.


I completely agree with this. As to the rest of your "horror story" - any specialist in his area in any country would tell you how "wrong" they do the same thing abroad (yet people in these foreign countries have not lost all their teeth by now due to unprofessional dentists there!). 
Yes, there are cases when some complications happen. Are there no such cases in Ireland? My friend went to an Irish dentist and had his tooth ruined by that dentist. 
Any honest dentist will tell the patient that he can not guarantee 100% that there will be no complications, even if he had made no mistakes in his work.
Yes, there are cases when a patient/client comes across a dentist/other type of specialist, who is [SIZE=-1]lacking in conscientiousness [/SIZE]or experience. And this does not depend on the country as much as on the individual. 
One thing that is really more risky is that if some complications occur upon patient's return to Ireland, he'd need to go back to where he had his treatment or pay that huge money in here to get it sorted. 
To avoid unprofessional dentists here or abroad one would always have to check their references.


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## Askar

Quite obviously Irish dentists have a vested interest in scaremongering. Like Irash, the only scare stories that I know about have been bad work by Irish dentists. Indeed, my own UK qualified dentist suggested that Irish practising dentists were better then their UK equivalents, but since she would have been qualified under the UK system I could only assume that she was worried I would be shopping around for the crown she said I needed. The UK medical profession (including dentists) are probably better trained and regulated then their Irish counterparts imo. However, through the restriction on supply in professional numbers and various restrictive practices the Irish customer gets a poor deal. The high prices referred to in this thread are a symptom of this general problem.


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## Eithneangela

Had 6 root canals/crowns done, about 10 years ago now.  Worth doing, but not at that price.  Extraction means roots come out as well which can cause change in facial structure depending on location of roots.  Why not investigate 'foreign' dentists and combine your treatment with a holiday.


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## Guest106

markowitzman said:


> as a practising Irish dentist the situation with failed treatments abroad is getting worse and worse! Cases of completely infereior quality of work. Cases of complete overtreatment.....clinically I have seen numerous cases of maybe a crown or two needed and the patient returns with 8, 10 crowns!!!!!!!!!!! Cases with advanced prosthodontics rushed into a fortnight which should take a year or more to complete correctly. Cases with completely inferior root canal treatment with persistent bone infections underneath. Cases with implant failures within a year or two of surgery. Cases with failed crown and bridge work due to no attention given to the existing gum condition.  I could go on and on..... I could not give a damn where a patient goes for treatment........I am snowed under with  work and have never been busier!! What really worries me is the shocking work that I am seeing at an all too frequent basis from abroad. Media are now beginning to cotton on to this and recent interviews with university professors from Dublin and Cork eloquently detailed what I have said above. They are inundated with cases of failed treatment abroad. This situation is getting worse and worse and I feel so sorry for the patients so afflicted. With loosening of the advertising noose on us here in Ireland we should be much more able to deal with this crisis in the media.  Get a SECOND OPINION for any case involving proposed treatment which involves multiple crowns etc and implants.



This explanation contains some good information concerning the dangers of getting dental work done abroad with dubious professionals and I have no issue with that as I think the warning is quite valid.
However, I see no attempt to explain to us why the high cost of dental fees obtains here and very specifically since we are invited to accept that there is no shortage of work to be done.
Give us the true breakdown of costs.


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## markowitzman

over 80% of Irish population are entitled to state subsidised dental care.
For the high end items there is a huge regional variation in fees which obviously depends on the cost/overhead structure of the individual practice so to generalise is nigh impossible.
I think it would be fair to say however that all practices here would have costs of six figures plus (100-200k per chair would be typical).
Overhead of 60-70%+ seems pretty much the norm.


> I see no attempt to explain to us why the high cost of dental fees obtains here and very specifically since we are invited to accept that there is no shortage of work to be done.


Most dentistry required here is routine preventive based work which is still cheap for the patient and mostly state subsidised.
My point is that these foreign outfits seem to skip over this VITAL work so as to overtreat using high end treatments which are in my experience not in the patient's best interest.
I will accept it is very difficult to take seriously anecdotal stories of "clinical success" on a forum like this. 
Moreover the human psyche I have found does not like to be told that they made a mistake when informed of failed treatment rendered abroad.
Good luck to all who had complicated treatment in a short time abroad.
To those who are contemplating, by all means get a treatment plan from these outfits but please please go to your local family dentist for a SECOND OPINION before jumping on the plane.


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## markowitzman

As an example of regional variation we charge 600 for crown whereas in urban areas this would be up to double?


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## malene

Hi, ok, I need to get root canal and a crown which I'm told in total will cost 700. I'm on less than 100 a week, working part time. I have a medical card (but my dentist stopped taking them). 

I lost my job seekers allowance of 106.50. Will my health board dentist do this for free on my medical card. I'm 33. My own dentist said the tooth might flare up and swell up within 2 weeks and I'm going against her desire to do the work, purely because of the cost. 

Do I rob a bank or just shoot myself if the pain gets unreal? Seriously, what are my options?

Thanks.

p.s the tooth is to one side of the mouth, around my cheek. (I heard the HSE only covers front). It had a deep filling which she drilled out, she then hit blood it was that deep. She put in a temp white filling until I make up my mind, with the warning it might flare up within 2 weeks.


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## aircobra19

I the old days they'd just pull it out and leave the gap.


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## malene

aircobra19 said:


> I the old days they'd just pull it out and leave the gap.



Yeah, but don't u need to put something back to stop the teeth closing in together? Won't that cause problems later? Fine if it's a back tooth, but if it's on the side or about 6 or 7 in from the center of your mouth, then surely something's going to go wrong there.


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## aircobra19

malene said:


> Yeah, but don't u need to put something back to stop the teeth closing in together?


 
No idea.


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## markowitzman

the main aim is to prevent further tooth loss with simple preventive treatments whereas.............


> don't u need to put something back to stop the teeth closing in together?


some of these foreign outfits would revert to above in double quick time before you get back on the plane!......which in a disease susceptible patient would increase the risk of further tooth loss.


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## aircobra19

markowitzman said:


> the main aim is to prevent further tooth loss with simple preventive treatments whereas.............
> 
> some of these foreign outfits would revert to above in double quick time before you get back on the plane!......which in a disease susceptible patient would increase the risk of further tooth loss.


 
I'm not following you at all. What do you mean?


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## markowitzman

putting something back in to replace missing tooth is doomed to fail in the presence of active disease be it gum disease or active tooth decay.


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## euro2000

As Irish Dentists don't advertise their prices how do you propose we shop around? I paid €250 for a consultation last week, I would have to pay this or more each time I wanted a second opinion. 



markowitzman said:


> .
> .
> Get second opinions etc etc and written estimates etc.
> Good luck.


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## markowitzman

I could not agree more.
Advertising has to change so as to level the playing field.
We have price lists in waiting rooms but we should be allowed to advertise to the wider public.


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## aircobra19

markowitzman said:


> putting something back in to replace missing tooth is doomed to fail in the presence of active disease be it gum disease or active tooth decay.


 
Thats a different thing. Do you "have" to put something in to stop the gap closing? Why is the gap closing a bad thing?

Active disease is another issue.


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## markowitzman

Nope you don't have to put something in to stop gap closing as in many cases the preexisting bite is stable.
Teeth can tip into spaces and opposing teeth can overgrow into these spaces which can increase the risk of gum disease, tooth decay and bite problems.
Mechanically putting something in, in the presence of active disease is below the standard of care.
Active disease is the key issue and supercedes all other concerns including gaps closing etc etc.


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## aircobra19

Then why on earth would some one put something in the gap?



markowitzman said:


> ....some of these foreign outfits would revert to above in double quick time before you get back on the plane....


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## malene

aircobra19 said:


> Then why on earth would some one put something in the gap?



Imagine looking in the mirror, look at your middle tooth and count 5 more to the right. I have tooth with a deep filling that was drilled out and the dentist wants to put something back in to save the tooth, i.e crown and she wants to do root canal too. Total 700. I've said hang on, even though it might flare up and get infected again within 2 weeks!! . She said if I get extraction, I'll have to put in a bridge or something to fill the gap. 

I'm working one day a week and have a medical card, but she doesn't take them. And I read here that the HSE will only pay for crowns for front six, upper and bottom. 

Will I just get a damn extraction or what and if I win the lotto later, put a bridge . 

mal


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## aircobra19

Hang on, step back. 

1) I said an alternative to having a root/crown is to have an extraction. 

2) You said you need something in the gap to stop them closing together.

3) markowitzman says you don't need anything.

I'm just making the point is that if you can't afford crowns/root canals, you don't have to have them. Yes you have to live with the gap. But you can either afford it or you can't.


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## markowitzman

aircobra19 get yourself 550 points and give five years plus to dental hospital and then you will understand..........
Good luck!


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## aircobra19

Could you be more condescending? Understand what? Either you can afford to get expensive dental work or you can't. You don't need to be a dentist to work that out. 

You often read stories of famous people, celebs, once they get a bit of money getting their teeth fixed up. Ronan Keating is rumoured to have spend 20k on dental work. What would these celebs done if they didn't have money? They would have lived with what they had.


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## teachai

malene said:


> Hi, ok, I need to get root canal and a crown which I'm told in total will cost 700. I'm on less than 100 a week, working part time. I have a medical card (but my dentist stopped taking them).
> 
> I lost my job seekers allowance of 106.50. Will my health board dentist do this for free on my medical card. I'm 33. My own dentist said the tooth might flare up and swell up within 2 weeks and I'm going against her desire to do the work, purely because of the cost.
> 
> Do I rob a bank or just shoot myself if the pain gets unreal? Seriously, what are my options?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> p.s the tooth is to one side of the mouth, around my cheek. (I heard the HSE only covers front). It had a deep filling which she drilled out, she then hit blood it was that deep. She put in a temp white filling until I make up my mind, with the warning it might flare up within 2 weeks.



Thats a pretty reasonable price to me.  Of course you do get 25% back but only after you submit your form.   
If you need the treatment, get it done.   It'll only get worse otherwise and you'll probably end up paying more in the long run. 

The other thing is that eventually, students have to practise on live patients but they would be supervised so you could consider this route. Contact the universities. (either UCD or Dublin will definitely have students)


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## Ancutza

Truly a well thought-out response by the dentist.  Implies that most of us are dummies and not worthy of respect.  Lambs to the scalpel in fact! I'm sure that all levels of education are represented on this board and hooray to that!  

Disgraceful one-upmanship! The basic argument here, and one Marko fails miserably to refute, in spite of his scare-mongering, is that Irish dental patients are being shamelessly exploited by a profession who, if Marko is one shining example of, appear to place themselves a cut above.


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## markowitzman

Ah schucks Ancutza, you shouldn't have!
Nice post!


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## markowitzman

> Understand what? Either you can afford to get expensive dental work or you can't.


You have completely missed my point.

Expensive dental treatment will FAIL in certain mouths with ACTIVE disease.
A building analogy............
A bridge is being built accross a river.
This is the same situation as in the mouth with the space being the river and the two teeth either side being the respective banks.
Assume the banks are bog (ie no support or foundations)...........what will happen the bridge? It will fail............same thing in the mouth...........if not sufficient bone support on the teeth either side the bridge or implant will fail especially in the presence of untreated gum disease.
Then someone may say if a bridge/implant does not have a good outlook what about a denture? Invariably dentures make untreated gum disease worse and increase the risk of new cavities.
Conclusion
In the presence of active/untreated disease no treatment is better than expensive replacements which are doomed to fail.

Moral of Story
I have seen numerous cases of untreated gum disease/tooth decay arriving back from abroad with expensive replacements which will fail. Therefore one must get active gum disease etc treated before bridges/implants. 2 weeks is not a time frame to do so.

There is a big difference between scaremongering and good basic science.
I am not devoting my time as a frequent poster here to defend my profession as they are well able to represent themselves!
I have seen horrific cases coming from abroad and this needs to be highlighted.
If I achieve anything on this thread I hope the least I achieve is that patients at least get a SECOND opinion.
If I don't achieve this, all I hope is that these horrific cases do not come to my door as believe me there is nothing worse to tell someone that this is the case and that the remedial costs are multiples of what they have paid.


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## aircobra19

markowitzman said:


> You have completely missed my point.
> 
> Expensive dental treatment will FAIL in certain mouths with ACTIVE disease....
> 
> 
> Conclusion
> In the presence of active/untreated disease no treatment is better than expensive replacements which are doomed to fail.
> 
> Moral of Story
> I have seen numerous cases of untreated gum disease/tooth decay arriving back from abroad with expensive replacements which will fail. ....


 
I still don't get it. Because malene was talking about treatment from an Irish dentist, who is suggesting root canal and crown treatment. Which malene can't afford. I'm just suggesting an alternative is extraction which is much cheaper. You don't have to get a bridge later. Its a nice to have, not need to have. Sorting out active disease/active decay is not optional. You simply have to do that. Its unlikely to involve significant cost though, and you can't simply wait to sort that out and leave someone in pain. Personally I would go with the root/crown. I don't know much about bridges but they seem far more hassle, from talking to people with them, and I'm guessing more expensive. I've had a few root/crown treatments myself. At least one was done to fix an immediate problem.   

markowitzman you keep replying about going abroad and active disease? I'd have hoped you'd be able to advise about the pros and cons about root/crown vs bridge work.


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## markowitzman

> I still don't get it. Because malene was talking about treatment from an Irish dentist, who is suggesting root canal and crown treatment. Which malene can't afford. I'm just suggesting an alternative is extraction which is much cheaper. You don't have to get a bridge later. Its a nice to have, not need to have. Sorting out active disease/active decay is not optional. You simply have to do that. Its unlikely to involve significant cost though, and you can't simply wait to sort that out and leave someone in pain. Personally I would go with the root/crown. I don't know much about bridges but they seem far more hassle, from talking to people with them, and I'm guessing more expensive.


Yes if one cannot afford root canal and crown then the best option is extraction followed by routine treatments to sort out active disease. You are spot on aircobra to suggest this. My point is that these foreign outfits are bypassing the key stage of getting rid of active disease in favour of overtreatment in the form of elective treatments which may not suit the mouth into which they are put.
In general where there is adequate healthy tooth above the gum root canal/crown is preferable than bridge work from a cost and conservation of tooth structure point of view. A bridge invariably involves cutting down two healthy teeth down to a stump which can increase the risk of future root canal treatments on these teeth.
Lots of generalities above but if the root canals done with an endodontist great chance of holding onto teeth.


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## Askar

markowitzman said:


> Yes if one cannot afford root canal and crown then the best option is extraction followed by routine treatments to sort out active disease. You are spot on aircobra to suggest this. My point is that these foreign outfits are bypassing the key stage of getting rid of active disease in favour of overtreatment in the form of elective treatments which may not suit the mouth into which they are put.
> In general where there is adequate healthy tooth above the gum root canal/crown is preferable than bridge work from a cost and conservation of tooth structure point of view. A bridge invariably involves cutting down two healthy teeth down to a stump which can increase the risk of future root canal treatments on these teeth.
> Lots of generalities above but if the root canals done with an endodontist great chance of holding onto teeth.


 
I still think you are missing a point. If your Irish dentist says you need root canal and crown, and you then decide to shop around for that treatment abroad, then the risk you refer to would be based on faulty advice of Irish dentist. You are not submitting to elaborate extra treatment, but carrying out a procedure recommended by your Irish dentist.


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## aircobra19

Hes saying is thats theres no point in spending lots of money fixing teeth if theres a ongoing issue with decay or gum disease. You need to get that sorted and on top of it, with your own eating habits, dental hygiene etc. Otherwise you might be back in 6 months getting all that work redone. If its an emergency then thats a difference scenerio. You need to do something quick. But thats regardless of where you go. Saving/repairing teeth is expensive. Either you can afford it or you can't. Personally I'd prefer to drive an old car and save my teeth. You'll hopefully have the teeth for your entire life. You see many older people driven batty with problems with bridges, dentures etc.

If you have a crown/root canal done thats probably 3 visits with a gap of a week or two between. Personally it makes more sense for me to go to a dentist thats 5 mins walk away, and knows my dental history than taking a bunch of time off which I don't have.


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## werner

In Ireland there are extraordinary dental fees overcharged imo and most others for both routine and complicated dental requirements

I would suggest that the original poster check out Northern Ireland for dentistry

I would highly reccommend these as a starting point in Newry and if you required major work of an extraordinary nature they will put you in contact with the right people [broken link removed] all fees at a much lower price and with top quality treatment. And no I have zero connections with them.

Don't believe any nonsense from Southern based "dentists" about different training or different materials being used in the North than down South. You will receive excellent treatment (in many ways better) and the exact same materials being used for crowns etc.

Dentists here doth protest too much!


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## markowitzman

feck!
They are more expensive than us for all dentures, post and core, tooth whitening, maryland bridge and veneers.
Werner thanks a million for that link.
Now I really need to review our prices!


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## aircobra19

Will you be posting a link to your prices?


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## markowitzman

This is exactly my point aircobra as the current advertising guidelines prohibit this, but thankfully change is afoot and soon the playing field will be level and we can market much more effectively against these sources.
My prices are displayed in waiting room fwiw.


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## aircobra19

Wasn't aware of that. TBH.


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## Askar

It appears that dental services are subject to the following:
Restrictions on advertising
Restrictions on who can fit dentures
Restrictions on number of dentists qualifying to meet a rising and aging population.

Are there any other restrictions associated with the provision of dental services? Does the association produce recommended fee guidelines for its members?


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## markowitzman

> Does the association produce recommended fee guidelines for its members?


Not now or ever. Completely illegal and anti-competitive.


> Are there any other restrictions associated with the provision of dental services?


Government induced specifically for the poorest in society. Medical card scheme is disgraceful. Completely underfunded, terrible admin nightmare run by HSE which have NO interest in patient care and are hounding practices out of the medical card scheme.


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## hola

Was on holiday in spain.  Got root canal for 70euro and crown for 195euro!


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## colm5

Hi,
Went to Newry and got a root canal and best crown avaialble for 850euro... happy days..
My Kildare dentist offered me the option of parting with 1800euro..No thanks...

Colm..


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## Megan

Had root canal treatment on back tooth yesterday and will have to have the tooth crowned. Total cost €750 in Newry. Have to have it crowned as I only have 2 back teeth on that side and I want to keep my own teeth for as long as I can. I paid €44 for a checkup + 3 xrays. One filling on back tooth cost €38 and cleaning €19. The dentist told me it costs more to have root canal done on a back tooth. The dentist I go to in Newry studied and trained in Dublin.


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## Megan

markowitzman said:


> feck!
> They are more expensive than us for all dentures, post and core, tooth whitening, maryland bridge and veneers.
> Werner thanks a million for that link.
> Now I really need to review our prices!



Will you be reviewing your prices on just the above list or on all your treatments?


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## markowitzman

reviewed all.
with 80% of Irish pop entitled to state subsidised care really do not have much to do with routine treatments.
Higher end stuff we were way too cheap and we were too busy.
Line queuing theory tells me to either increase capacity, increase speed/productivity or raise prices.
Have increased capacity with more chairs etc, happy with productivity with staff training and continuing education which leaves increasing prices which has been done.


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## Ancutza

Which only leads any sensible person to shop around and have the work done outside the ROI.


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## markowitzman

Ancutza you assume by the word review this means upwards only.
Not true.
For reatments that require very little chair time like bleaching we have slashed prices as costs have reduced.
What do you think has happened to demand.
Up, up up.
Now more profitable than ever as a result.
I know many colleagues who are doing similar with same results.


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## Ancutza

markowitzman said:


> Have Increased Capacity With More Chairs Etc, Happy With Productivity With Staff Training And Continuing Education *which Leaves Increasing Prices Which Has Been Done. *:d


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## Askar

markowitzman said:


> Ancutza you assume by the word review this means upwards only.
> Not true.
> For reatments that require very little chair time like bleaching we have slashed prices as costs have reduced.
> What do you think has happened to demand.
> Up, up up.
> Now more profitable than ever as a result.
> I know many colleagues who are doing similar with same results.


 

Yes. This is what happens in restricted markets, where supply is constrained and demand is increasing. Interesting that you 'know' about pricing activities of your colleagues.


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## markowitzman

absolutely and totally flawed argument when it comes to procedure like bleaching.........
your hairdresser, beauty therapist discount store, pharmacy and online shops activley market and "provide" this procedure.
I have seen ridiculous damage done by some of these sources to people's dentition. I have researched the market and yes have reduced fees considerably so as to undercut these fly by night merchants so as to benefit our clients.
Like minded colleagues are now doing similar.
10-16% carbamide peroxide is ce approved and can be safely used in the mouth.
I had a case seen by a local beauty therapist who advertised full page for bleaching in a local paper. They were using 40%!! and the marketing ploy was that "your dentist can not get this concentration!!".
Their fee was 150% of ours and they were using completely unsafe concentrations of bleach and sadly this case required root canal treatment which was totally attributable to this bleach concentration.
Buyer beware!


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## Ancutza

Markowitzman, you have quite clearly stated that you *RAISED* your prices! A freudian slip perhaps?? Now your trying to finesse the issue by spitting feathers.

Which is it? Did you raise 'em or drop 'em?


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## Satanta

Ancutza said:


> Markowitzman, you have quite clearly stated that you *RAISED* your prices! A freudian slip perhaps?? Now your trying to finesse the issue by spitting feathers.
> 
> Which is it? Did you raise 'em or drop 'em?


To be fair, the comment on "increasing prices" has to be viewed in context.



markowitzman said:


> reviewed all.


No mention of increasing all.



markowitzman said:


> Higher end stuff we were way too cheap and we were too busy.
> Line queuing theory tells me to either increase capacity, increase speed/productivity or raise prices.
> Have increased capacity with more chairs etc, happy with productivity with staff training and continuing education which leaves increasing prices which has been done.


Where the "increasing prices" was mentioned was in relation to where the previous review had suggested that on the "higher end stuff" they were "way too cheap". 

[No connection with markowitzman or his business]


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## galwegian44

Wow....would you let this man put his fingers in your mouth? 



markowitzman said:


> aircobra19 get yourself 550 points and give five years plus to dental hospital and then you will understand..........
> Good luck!


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## Leon76

I having some work done at present and here is some of the prices I'm paying.

Clinical examination €50

Tooth drainage €250

Wisdom tooth extraction €100

Root canal €850.00

All this work done. Now need crown. Told me it would be €1000. I nearly fell off the chair. 

This guy is good but these prices are omething else,any comments


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## ciara_henegh

hi i was wondering about dental implants. i need one and have been quoted 1300 here in the west of ireland and am wondering if its cheaper up north and if so where would be recommended?


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## Ancutza

Spoke to this dentist guy I know out here in Romania this morning.  He's worked on several of my friends and family members.

A root canal costs 70 Euros but apparently there can be up to 3 to be done in a tooth.  Didn't know that!


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## Megan

Ancutza said:


> Spoke to this dentist guy I know out here in Romania this morning.  He's worked on several of my friends and family members.
> 
> A root canal costs 70 Euros but apparently there can be up to 3 to be done in a tooth.  Didn't know that!



I had a root canal treatment done on a back tooth (3 roots) for £250 (Approx €312) in Newry a week ago.


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## Ancutza

Well that's proof of what I've been saying and it also proves that you don't have to look too far outside of the Republic for sensible prices.

Could you please PM me the details of your dentist in the north Megan. The nephew of a friend of mine has been quoted 800 and 675 Euros respectively for the same work by two different dentists in Dublin. I had suggested to him that he might come out here for the work to be done but he has problems with taking the time off work.

I'd be delighted to pass on the details assuming, that is, if you are happy with the work of the NI dentist.


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## RevaHealth

markowitzman said:


> This is exactly my point aircobra as the current advertising guidelines prohibit this, but thankfully change is afoot and soon the playing field will be level and we can market much more effectively against these sources.
> My prices are displayed in waiting room fwiw.



Good news for everyone, the Dental Council of Ireland have issued a new code of practice, which you can download here:

Code Of Conduct Pertaining to Public Relations and Communications

It specifically encourages publication of prices and fees and explicitly allows the use of websites to do so.

Phil

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## markowitzman

far from satisfactory in my book....
does not go far enough and it is a very poor guidance document which is so light on specifics and presents more questions than it answers.
a step in the right direction but only a start albeit a poor one.


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## minion

*RateMyDentist.ie*

What we need is a Rate My Dentist website.  A Rate My Doctor website wouldnt go amiss either.  People could post up prices they paid or were quoted and satisfaction rating of quality of work too.


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## markowitzman

> satisfaction rating of quality of work too.


how would you assess quality of work done?


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## Rachob

Hi,
Slightly off topic,but need advice asap. Just moved to Clondalkin area, need to see a dentist soon as experiencing pain. Not familiar with the area and really need to know who to go to. I had two huge fillings put in two back molars approx 2 years ago, at the time I was told the size of them could damage the nerve and may result in needing a root canal. I thought if / when this happened it would be years away. Had some trouble with it earlier this year,went to a Dub City centre clinic who took x-rays. Dentist said they *thought* there may be the beginings of root damage and i may need a root canal. She said it would be approx 2,000 and wanted to get started straight away -after only saying she thought there may be some damage. I felt she wasn't really paying much attention as she then went on to say, 'Oh you'll want to discuss this with your parents I'm sure' - I'm 26 and living with my partner!!! But anyway, it's been giving me trouble for a few weeks now - very sensitive to hot and cold and I'm now having the awful feeling it has become a bit loose. Absolutely terrified - im ok with dentists in general, but im very squeamish with needles and just knowing what they are doing to me and it often makes me really nauseated and faint - have had experiences where dentists have given out to me when I said I felt sick, so that makes me even more nervous about going to an unknown area now. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## markowitzman

get to an endodontist asap. Feeling of looseness is the precursor to abscess in many cases.


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## Rachob

god really? What exactly is an endodontist? Can you recommend anyone?


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## minion

markowitzman said:


> how would you assess quality of work done?



I went back to a dentist after a bodged job (irish).  He tried to charge me more money to fix it.  I decide to get a second opinion.  Second dentist told me how bad a job was done and repaired it beautifully for less than half the price quoted to fix it by the shyster who did it in the first place.

I think i can tell when im happy with a dentists work easily enough.


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## minion

Rachob said:


> Hi,
> Slightly off topic,but need advice asap. Just moved to Clondalkin area, need to see a dentist soon as experiencing pain. Not familiar with the area and really need to know who to go to. I had two huge fillings put in two back molars approx 2 years ago, at the time I was told the size of them could damage the nerve and may result in needing a root canal. I thought if / when this happened it would be years away. Had some trouble with it earlier this year,went to a Dub City centre clinic who took x-rays. Dentist said they *thought* there may be the beginings of root damage and i may need a root canal. She said it would be approx 2,000 and wanted to get started straight away -after only saying she thought there may be some damage. I felt she wasn't really paying much attention as she then went on to say, 'Oh you'll want to discuss this with your parents I'm sure' - I'm 26 and living with my partner!!! But anyway, it's been giving me trouble for a few weeks now - very sensitive to hot and cold and I'm now having the awful feeling it has become a bit loose. Absolutely terrified - im ok with dentists in general, but im very squeamish with needles and just knowing what they are doing to me and it often makes me really nauseated and faint - have had experiences where dentists have given out to me when I said I felt sick, so that makes me even more nervous about going to an unknown area now. Any help greatly appreciated.
> Thanks



Make an appointment with a dentist up the North and get the train.  What harm can it do to go and get a second opinion (and quote) a couple of hours travel away?


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## beekeeper

Apologies if I am repeating here but I have been quoted E1800 for root canal on one of my back teeth.  There is some connection to the nostril so seems reasonably complicated.  E1800 still seems extremely expensive.  Can someone please recomend a good dentist that can do root canal in the Dublin area and wont cost me an arm and a leg !  Thanks in advance.


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## TheRealZulu

I've just had my first root canal session on a molar. €400.
€400 for my next session, so €800 in total. That's with a specialist, and he was great (I was very nervous).
I have to work out how much my cron will cost - not looking forward to that.

The specialist is on the Navan road, near the Cabra Garda station.


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## Ancutza

This would have cost you 60 Euro per root with my dentist here in Romania.


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## deniz

Ancutza said:


> This would have cost you 60 Euro per root with my dentist here in Romania.


It is 20 E for the same in a country near Romania!


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## callaghanj

Friend got root canal and crown in Bulgaria recently for 120 euro. Book yourself a holiday and get it done overseas....dentistry is much cheaper in places like Hungary, bulgaria so I'm told!!!


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## beekeeper

I paid 890 for the same job in Dublin last week so I think you have a good deal unless you travel.  Problem is if you travel you will probably have a normal dentist do it for you instead of a root canal specialist... think its termed "endodontist".  eg up north its much cheaper but no qualified endodontist up there ! I was advised, especially with a molar, dont take a chance.

Hope this helps


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## markowitzman

finally a bit of sensible advice.......endodontist is the key.


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## sparkeee

Its robbery,i had a crown fitted in Marmaris in Turkey two years ago for 150 euro,its perfect,i have had no problems whatsoever,it was a modern state of the art surgery,the dentist spoke several languages and there were people from all over europe in the waiting room some were returning customers wanting other procedures,there was a whoe family from Denmark.Its rubbish people suggesting its better to have it done in Ireland.The dentist at the time would do a root canal for 100 europ plus 50 for the packing.My 150 included a complete teeth scrape and clean.When i go back for a holiday i will go in for a clean again and maybe get all my black fillings replaced with white,my missus had 8 of these replaced,its marvellous.


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## markowitzman

> maybe get all my black fillings replaced with white,my missus had 8 of these replaced,its marvellous.


presumably you are very aware white fillings on the back teeth have a poor survival rate compared to amalgam?.......was this explained to you? Are you aware white fillings shrink as they set and leak and are much more technique sensitive to place, require a rubber dam to ensure a better bond and if placed poorly set the tooth up for recurrent decay and root canals?


> The dentist at the time would do a root canal for 100 euro


are you aware that the state of the art is nickel titanium motor driven preparation of the root canal with SINGLE use of these devices in order to prevent cross infection...CJD etcetc.
This is the regulation now for root canal treatment with an endodontist.
The cost of these items if used for root canal treatment which they must is circa 100 euro worldwide as they are souced made and distributed by american multinationals which charge similar rates worldwide.
Now ask yourself is your friend in Turkey running a charity or cutting corners compared to an endodontist??


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## sunrock

A lot of people are going to northern ireland.Would it not be just as easy to go to mainland u.k. with cheap flights etc.For example in manchester or liverpool etc.
Of course it would have to be done on a private basis.I`d imagine the quality would be similiar to northern ireland or the republic but a bit cheaper...may be possible to fit in a dentists visit with a sporting event.


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## wjc

Had to have emergency root canal done while on holidays in portugal last week (unbearable pain in one of my big Molars). In Quinta Do Lago which is most expensive area of Algarve. Dentist and Nurse came in specially on Saturday and opened clinic. Did it all in one go. Took about 2 hours. Cost 400 euros. Thought I was being ripped off until I see what it costs in this country!


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## chefcorm

i had root canal treatment, 6 fillings and a crown done in newry for 650sterling....your been ripped off, go up north so much cheaper.


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## rco2000

chefcorm said:


> i had root canal treatment, 6 fillings and a crown done in newry for 650sterling....your been ripped off, go up north so much cheaper.


 
Hi, I need to get a crown & bridge-quoted 2k here last week!!!
Where in Newry did you get treatment please? Tks


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## John Rambo

This could be vested interest nonsense but according to a report on Newstalk 106 the other day, 75% of Irish dentists claim they're regularly required to repair or completely redo work done overseas. And no, I'm not a dentist!


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## rco2000

John Rambo said:


> This could be vested interest nonsense but according to a report on Newstalk 106 the other day, 75% of Irish dentists claim they're regularly required to repair or completely redo work done overseas. And no, I'm not a dentist!


 
I believe they failed to omit that some of this emergency repair work was done on poor work from other ROI dentists??


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## Concert

Have been getting all my dental work done in Spain for the past fifteen years as we have a place there.  Dentist has a brilliant practice and is well established and I didn't go to him without doing my homework.  Luckily I have never needed a whole lot of work but the usual fillings and scaling.  I usually attend the clinic every six months and my friends have had root canals and crowns done when they stay at a fraction of the price and work is perfect, highly competent people.


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## John Rambo

rco2000 said:


> I believe they failed to omit that some of this emergency repair work was done on poor work from other ROI dentists??


 
If they did then the report was entirely disingenuous because the headline claim was 75% - remedial work - dentists outside the State. Personally I just go to a guy I like (even though he's ridiculously expensive). If I had to, I'd consider going to the North but I'd stop short at travelling to Eastern Europe because I'm not convinced the level of care would be comparable.


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## pittskatty

It is definitely on the expensive side. In the US many people use a dental plan to reduce their costs. For example, this lady was facing a similar bill: http://dentalcool.blogspot.com/2009/10/surprise-crown-work-quote-3500-how-to.html then she saved about $1000 with a plan.


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## phoenix

Can anyone recommend an endodontist north or south of the border.  My own dentist happy for me to go either direction.  He is also normally happy to do root canal treatment himself if he thinks it is straight forward but has recommended I go to an endodontist.

Would be grateful for recommendations but must be a qualified endodontist.  Thanks


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## jonq74

i had the same thing.. regular dentist was unavailable for 2 weeks so i had to go to another practice in dublin fingal area as my filling had fallen out... was told i needed a crown and rootcanal for 1300 immediately or the world would end.. he said he could do it immediately... i said thanks but I would get my regular dentist to do it.. regular dentist took an xray said no need for at least a year....and beyond .... always get a second opinion and then decide whether you want to or not...


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