# Is welfare fraud my only option?



## reboca (19 Sep 2006)

Hi folks, 

Back in January last, I had to leave my job due to a bout of major depression. I went into the social welfare office to apply for disability benefit but was missing just the one stamp so had to apply for disability allowance instead. I wasnt too keen on getting DA as i didnt want to remain out of work long term, the medication was working reasonably well and ive had major depressive episodes since i was a 14 year old suffering with anorexia and knew that I got over them within a few weeks to a lesser form of depression.


After handing in certs for 7 weeks and recieving no payment i was a bit confused but was feeling better at this stage and decided to try find work so got my final cert and was told to apply for DA which i did. I had to undergo a means test as i live with my partner in rented accomodation. This time i was left waiting 8 weeks for a reply which i only got because i called the social welfare inspector directly to ask what was happening!!! While i was on the phone he asked me questions similar to the ones in the interview but it was as if he wanted to to lie! I told him the exact same thing which was true about me living with my partner etc and he said fine hed get my payment sorted out and sure enough i got paid the next day but to my amazement i was awarded €23.60 euros. 


Anyhow I foudn a job soon after that was a temporary position and am now back to square one applying for UA. But this time I decided fraud is my only option and said i was living alone as €23 a week is enough to drive a depressive to suicide. I put everything down on the from as living alone have no capital single etc etc. A few days later i get a letter saying my claim has been awarded at 28 euros a week!!! I went back up to the office and had to fill in a form for the welfare inspector confirming i was single and all that, its been about 2 weeks now and im still waiting. I had a knock at my door yesterday which i did not answer as i just knew it was an inspector and my partners things were strewn all over the place. I know fraud is totally against the law and carrys penaltys but i am desperate as we cannot afford to live on her income and 28 euros a week. 

What should i do!?


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## Sn@kebite (19 Sep 2006)

*Re: Welfare fraud*

Hi Reboca, welcome to AAM, sorry to hear bout your terrible status at home.

The SW officials are like this, they try to shrug you off hoping you'll forget all about you rights to state payments.

I think you should try going to you local T.D., he/she might know what to do the inspectors at the offices hate letters from people above them looking into cases like this.

I really dont know what u could do though as you're supposed to be being payed if your elligible. You said you needed to commit WF. I would never advise this, especially if you're doing it out of desparation, as you will be caught, but if you were doing it out of dishonesty you'd probably get away with it.

Before you commit welfare fraud at least have proof that you tried everything else, i.e. have documents,record ALL of your telephone calls to the SW Office...etc. If i was you id walk around with a ''dictaphone'' in my pocket when i visit my TD, you never know it may stop you from going to jail one day.

Once again sorry to hear about you situation, I thought i was bad. 
Lets just wait for more posts.

Good Luck!......


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## KCT (19 Sep 2006)

*Re: Welfare fraud*

The SW will continue to pay you 28 p.w. until the Inspector is satisfied you are actually living alone. If you don't let them in they can't review your means. Your only option is to live at a separate address from your partner, then you will not be jointly assessed for UA.


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## Rose (19 Sep 2006)

*Re: Welfare fraud*

Have you checked all your options, you may be entitled to family income supplement or some other payment.


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## reboca (20 Sep 2006)

*Re: Welfare fraud*

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I really feel like I have the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. What kind of power do these welfare inspectors actually posess? I invite them into my flat and do they root into drawers, look into closets or what way does it work? I could do a james bond and hide all her clothes! But seriously my partner will probably leave me if i dont get enough at least to pay half the rent each month and 28 euros a week is well under that amount. She is stressed out enough with me and how things have been going and i cant blame her.

Is it possible that the decision will be made without a house call to me?


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## KCT (20 Sep 2006)

Given that an Inspector was trying to visit you then they may have made the decision that a house visit was necessary. They make a decision based on a risk assessment and it seems in your case that they have decided that it merits a home visit.


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## Sn@kebite (21 Sep 2006)

*Re: Welfare fraud*



reboca said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I really feel like I have the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. What kind of power do these welfare inspectors actually posess? I invite them into my flat and do they root into drawers, look into closets or what way does it work? I could do a james bond and hide all her clothes! But seriously my partner will probably leave me if i dont get enough at least to pay half the rent each month and 28 euros a week is well under that amount. She is stressed out enough with me and how things have been going and i cant blame her.
> 
> Is it possible that the decision will be made without a house call to me?




The main thing is don't stress out they will  be suspicious of you, just let them do what the will & if you've got nothing to hide as u said, the you've got nothing to fear.


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## Swallows (21 Sep 2006)

The Social Welfare will pay you what you are entitled to if you produce the evidence. Yes they do usually make a home visit in almost all cases. If you live with a partner then their income is taken into account.If your partner is not prepared to give you the money that you need to pay bills and live then you must move out and live alone. You must not claim for something to which you are not entitled.


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## xeresod (22 Sep 2006)

While I do have sympathy for the OP, how can he expect S.W. to believe that he is paying rent, esb, heating, food etc on €28 per week only. 

If he can convince them he is living alone, they will certainly be questioning how he lives on €28 and could assume he is working (or doing something illegal!) in order to fund himself.

Also, in addition to claiming UA he should also apply for rent allowance which (if he gets it) should make things a little easier. Another option is to approach the St Vincent de Paul who can be very helpful in this type of situation.


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## Thrifty (22 Sep 2006)

Reboca, have you queried your contributions- as you were only one week short the first time the temporary work you have done in the meantime may affect your contributions and you may now be eligible for the disability benefit. The Citizens Information may be able to help you or at least point you in the right direction.


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## MandaC (23 Sep 2006)

This type of situation sickens me and I cant believe the Social Welfare think it is acceptable for someone to live on €28 per week.  They are making it very difficult for the original poster to get his life back together.  There has to be something else he is entitled to.  I second the opinion to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau straight away.  

When my sister had her baby and herself and partner were living together, she got absolutely zero as it was expected that he support her.  Fine, ok, his family.  Neither of them were interested in pretending that they lived somewhere else and was an unmarried mother, etc.

Yet the other side of the coin, was that he got absolutely nothing in the way of tax relief because they were not married, ie he was still working on a single persons allowance, despite the fact that he was supporting them both.  The system needs a massive overhaul.


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## lff12 (23 Sep 2006)

I think this harks back to the days when a man was expected to "take care" of his wife etc insofar as she didn't have to work to make ends meet.  Of course this is no longer an option with the cost of living haven risen to such an extent that most couples wouldn't be able to get by on one income.

Having said that, that is the system, and fair enough, a single person living alone would then be much worse off than half a couple who arguably is benefitting from his or her partner's income.  The ludicrous thing about this is of course that it discriminates against heterosexuals as gay couples will be considered to be "roomies" by welfare unless you tell them otherwise.  (Laughably, any recognition of gay relationships by the state would put an end to this!)  I think the reduction in your payment is supposed to reflect the fact that you benefit in some way from living with a working partner who is expected to help you out.

Trouble is for you now is that you already have a payment history with welfare, and they pretty much that you don't live alone.  So if you try to suggest otherwise, you'll almost certainly be number 1 on their hitlist for fraud, and you are very unlikely to get away with it.  So I'd sugest either temporarily moving him or you out, or putting up with it, the alternative is a possible fine or suspension of all payments, not to mention potentially a jail sentence.


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## Snork Maiden (23 Sep 2006)

LFF12 is right.  If this is your second application they will know that you said you lived with your partner last time and the house visit was probably scheduled to rule out the anomolies between the two applications........

Dont lie to the social welfare.  In the long term its not worth it.   You sound like a genuine decent person and its usually the ordinary person who lies out of desperation who gets caught and punished as opposed to the gangsters and drug barons who claim every benefit the state provides while living it up in expensive homes etc!  

Be up front.  Let them know your financial status.  Contact citizens advice/mabs etc who may be able to help with your entitlements or debts.  In the meantime visit your local health officer who may be able to supplement your income.  

I know all this may seem a lot to take on particularly if you are feeling down at the moment but take it one step at a time.  At least if your honest and being up front you will have one less worry on your shoulders.   Best of luck and dont let an inequitable system turn you into a welfare fraudster..........


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## reboca (25 Sep 2006)

Thank you all sincerely for your replies. I've taken the main line of advice here to heart and I've decided not to try defraud the welfare service.


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## lff12 (6 Oct 2006)

MandaC said:


> This type of situation sickens me and I cant believe the Social Welfare think it is acceptable for someone to live on €28 per week.


 
They do.  They do not see themselves as under any obligation to give you anything simply because you have no income.



MandaC said:


> There has to be something else he is entitled to.


 
Not neccessarily.  If a self employed person goes out of business they are actually entitled to practically nothing, though can apply for means tested benefits.  Again there is no guarantee they will get anything.  Welfare does not see itself as a charity.


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## ClubMan (6 Oct 2006)

Off topic rant split to a new thread:

people coming into this country and getting rent paid to the tune of €1300 p.m.


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