# Bullied at Work - Should I stay?



## elainem (2 Aug 2008)

Im currently being bullied at work, and it is escalating. 

It started with manager spreading roumours about my work not being good enough, which I actually heard back. Then telling new staff that I was completely unreliable and was hardly even in, even though I had missed only two days in nine months. 

Then she made two attempts to get rid of me, but Director of Nursing was furious, so I stayed. 

Now I have difficulty getting my holidays, even one day, 1st September to take my son to school on his first day. She suggests ask the assistant director of nursing, the assistant director says ask the manager, then the manager says she nevere said I should ask the assistant director so I am being made to look unreasonable. 

Told me the other day that another girl was coming to my job and I would have to move, but then completely denied it when the Director of Nursing got involved.

Others have told me what she has said behind my back, some have noticed the way she speaks to me - one of the secretaries even commented that the manager speaks to me 'like a dog' and said they had all notied how she treats me. 

Im tempted to leave - have some savings in the bank, and two rental properties, no mortgage, no car loan, two kids - 4 and 6, and maintenance from their dad. 

Im contemplating doing agency. 

Im also commencing course in systemic therapy this september so I can eventually get out of nursing in 4 years time d.v. 

Have thought of going to union, but rep. is very close to assistant director of nursing.  Also other bullying cases in past have not had much success going this route. 

Would I be mad to resign? - My contract ran out yesterday 1st August, but they are keeping me on - although no new contract because of the embargo. 

I have a thyroid problem which makes the stress of bullying more difficult for me.

Any advice greatly appreciated.


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## ClubMan (2 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> Currently being bullied at work, and it is escalating.


Have you made a formal complaint in work about this?


> Now I have difficulty getting my holidays, even one day


You have a statutory entitlement to take your holidays subject to reasonable negotiation about timing with your employer.


> She suggests ask the assistant director of nursing, the assistant director says ask the manager, then the manager says she nevere said I should ask the assistant director so I am being made to look unreasonable.


Or maybe they are being made to look incompetent. Why not get them together and ask which of them has the final say in this if they cannot tell you?


> Told me the other day that another girl was coming to my job and I would have to move


Move where?


> Others have told me what she has said behind my back, some have noticed the way she speaks to me - one of the secretaries even commented that the manager speaks to me 'like a dog' and said they had all notied how she treats me.


Second hand reports like this may not be totally reliable.


> Tempted to leave


If at all possible don't unilaterally leave but wait until you have secured alternative employment.


> Have thought of going to union, but rep. very close to assistant director of nursing.  Also other bullying cases in past have not had much success going this route.


You mean other cases in this organisation or other cases of your's?


> Would I be mad to resign


Not mad but it might be rash.


> Have thyroid problem which makes the stress of bullying more difficult for me.


Contact your _GP _about this and if s/he considers it related to your work issues and thinks that you need to be certified for sick leave.


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## ney001 (2 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> Currently being bullied at work, and it is escalating. Started with manager spreading roumours about my work not being good enough, which I actually heard back. Then telling new staff that I was completely unreliable and was hardly even in, even though I had missed only two days in nine months. Then she made two attempts to get rid of me, but Director of Nursing was furious, so I stayed. Now I have difficulty getting my holidays, even one day, 1st September to take my son to school on his first day. She suggests ask the assistant director of nursing, the assistant director says ask the manager, then the manager says she nevere said I should ask the assistant director so I am being made to look unreasonable. Told me the other day that another girl was coming to my job and I would have to move, but then completely denied it when the Director of Nursing got involved. Others have told me what she has said behind my back, some have noticed the way she speaks to me - one of the secretaries even commented that the manager speaks to me 'like a dog' and said they had all notied how she treats me. Tempted to leave - have some savings in the bank, and two rental properties, no mortgage, no car loan, two kids - 4 and 6, and maintenance from their dad. Contemplating doing agency. Also commencing course in systemic therapy this sept. so I can eventually get out of nursing in 4 years time d.v. Have thought of going to union, but rep. very close to assistant director of nursing.  Also other bullying cases in past have not had much success going this route. Would I be mad to resign - contract ran out yesterday 1st August, but they are keeping me on - although no new contract because of the embargo.  Have thyroid problem which makes the stress of bullying more difficult for me. Any advice greatly appreciated.



Hi Best of luck with what you decide - I would just be careful about how much information you post re your job, you have mentioned specific titles of people etc -you wouldn't know who is an aam'er.  Good luck


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## S.L.F (2 Aug 2008)

Hi elainem,

I had the misfortune to be targeted by a bully in the past not a nice thing at all.

When I come across them now and they try to target me I expose them for what they are, stupid, incompetent, attention seeking parasites.

Trying to explain to people about what it is like being bullied is very difficult because a lot of people think you are over reacting.

The sad reality of the matter even if you do make a complaint against your bully the chances are nothing will be done.

Its quite common for  bullies to be promoted in order to get rid of them, so instead of being fired as they deserve they get more money and more power to make peoples lives utter misery.

I had a quick look through the net for you and found [broken link removed]

I hope it is of use to you.

SLF


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## enoxy (2 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> . Would I be mad to resign - contract ran out yesterday 1st August, but they are keeping me on - although no new contract because of the embargo. Have thyroid problem which makes the stress of bullying more difficult for me. Any advice greatly appreciated.


 
Yes you would be mad to resign - fight your corner or else you will be picked on wherever you work - I never cease to be amazed at the politics/games that go on in public/health sector work environments. The last person to be considered by all concerned is the patient/client.


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## becky (2 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> Currently being bullied at work, and it is escalating. Started with manager spreading roumours about my work not being good enough, which I actually heard back. Then telling new staff that I was completely unreliable and was hardly even in, even though I had missed only two days in nine months. Then she made two attempts to get rid of me, but Director of Nursing was furious, so I stayed. Now I have difficulty getting my holidays, even one day, 1st September to take my son to school on his first day. She suggests ask the assistant director of nursing, the assistant director says ask the manager, then the manager says she nevere said I should ask the assistant director so I am being made to look unreasonable. Told me the other day that another girl was coming to my job and I would have to move, but then completely denied it when the Director of Nursing got involved. Others have told me what she has said behind my back, some have noticed the way she speaks to me - one of the secretaries even commented that the manager speaks to me 'like a dog' and said they had all notied how she treats me. Tempted to leave - have some savings in the bank, and two rental properties, no mortgage, no car loan, two kids - 4 and 6, and maintenance from their dad. Contemplating doing agency. Also commencing course in systemic therapy this sept. so I can eventually get out of nursing in 4 years time d.v. Have thought of going to union, but rep. very close to assistant director of nursing. Also other bullying cases in past have not had much success going this route. Would I be mad to resign - contract ran out yesterday 1st August, but they are keeping me on - although no new contract because of the embargo. Have thyroid problem which makes the stress of bullying more difficult for me. Any advice greatly appreciated.


 
I find the fact that you are being kept on but not getting a contract hilarious - you are entitled to a contract, the 'embargo' has nothing to do with the contract. 

I would not resign to do agency work - you will lose out on contributing to the pension scheme. 

You should make a complaint under the Dignity at Work scheme. 

You pay the union to assist and advise you in these matters and the relationship the rep has with the DoN should have no bearing on this.


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## eileen alana (2 Aug 2008)

Bullies love an audience, speak to this person on their own and you'll see him/her turn into a insecure, shivering whim.


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## elainem (2 Aug 2008)

Hi! everyone, thanks for your replies.

Clubman, I am wary of making a formal complaint as a colleague of mine made one and the bullying increased, so much that she finally left.

In relation to whether I have been bullied before, no not at this workplace, but in England, myself and two of my colleagues were bullied because we stood up for someone who was being accused in the wrong. We won, through the union, but it was at great personal cost, and I was single at time and also without thyroid condition.

In relation to moving me. Two managers (my own and a friend of hers who is waiting to step into this workplace on my own manager's retirement) and the ACNO told me that I could not go back on to the wards as they were fully staffed (I currently work in community and had offered to go back to the wards), and the only other position available was a Day Centre where, due to childcare arrangements, I had previously told them I would be unable to work at the moment. Further, the Day Centre would not allow me to utilise any of my skills from the psychotherapy course, which the DON said they needed. The DON was furious when he heard about the planned move, as apparently he had known nothing about it.

Becky, thanks for your reply. Any temporary staff whose contracts have expired did not get them renewed, but were kept on at the same hours. We have asked for them to be renewed, and suggested to management that we are entitled to a contract, but they said the HSE was not giving out new contracts due to the embargo.

In relation to the Dignity at Work Policy, I am aware of it, but given what happened to my colleague in our workplace (as mentioned above), I don't think it will carry much weight - but I could be wrong.


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## Vanilla (2 Aug 2008)

As an aside, my sister in law ( in France) had/has a thyroid problem so I know how seriously this can affect your health and even your outlook. Under the great French healthcare system she was off work for over a year ( on full pay), and a taxi was sent to her house to bring her to a spa once a month for an R&R day. What are the chances of Mary Harney bringing in the likes?! 

Personally I'd look for another job and move when I got the new job. The last thing you need is more stress esp as you are a single mother. God knows that's hard enough on its own without bringing a hard time at work into the equation.


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## elainem (2 Aug 2008)

H! Vanilla, thanks for your comment. I am definitely leaning towards finding a new job - might be difficult in today's economic climate and I live down the country, though not too far from Dublin that I couldn't get some temporary work.

Yes, a thyroid problem does affect one's outlook. My friend could never understand how I could get so tired in the evenings and how emotional conflict or events such as being burgled could leave me flattened. However, she then got a mild thyroid problem, which, since she is a herbalist, managed to right with herbs and no need for orthodox medication. She now can understand how I feel, and said that when her thyroid was low she felt like someone had taken her batteries out.


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## Diziet (2 Aug 2008)

elaine, I would strongly advise you to keep a detailed journal of any incidents - who said what, dates, times, who was present. Be very dilligent about this. Do not keep it at work. 

If you choose to make a formal complaint, or even an informal approach to the DON, this will prove invaluable. 

all the best,
Diziet


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## Brianne (3 Aug 2008)

Firstly , are you a qualified nurse? I ask because I find your comments rather strange as regards comments re herbalism etc. If you have a thyroid 'problem' which is being adequately treated , you shouldn't experience that level of tiredness, so firstly you should see your doctor. 

Presumably, you are a member of a union , so why not contact your representative.
As a previous poster said , keep a diary of events.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of listening to what others have to say like this. This is the cause of a lot of trouble in workplaces, do any of us really want to know what others are saying and very often comments are taken out of place.Also some people like ' stirring the pot' and have their own agenda.

Why not ask other staff as to whom they apply to when they wish to avail of leave?Find out and then write to the relevant person, applying for same.

If a manager speaks to you in a fashion that you construe as bullying, why not say quietly to them that you consider that you are being bullied and you would like to discuss the matter further?

Would it not be better to deal with your concerns and then make up your mind as to whether or not the job suits you?

Regardless of what qualifications you have,  as you are a contract worker, you will be deployed according to the need of the organisation. You may not get exactly the job you want and this is not normally construed as bullying.

If you don't follow the procedures as laid down, you can leave and complain all you want but you will severely weaken any case you may have. 
Best of luck, you may be surprised and find that you may be able to resolve your differences with communication.


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## ClubMan (3 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> However, she then got a mild thyroid problem, which, since she is a herbalist, managed to right with herbs and no need for orthodox medication.





Brianne said:


> Firstly , are you a qualified nurse? I ask because I find your comments rather strange as regards comments re herbalism etc.


I have to agree with _Brianne _- "herbalism" (assuming this is what we're actually talking about and not some completely quack therapy) may have something to offer in some cases but "orthodox medicine" probably should be the first port of call in cases such as this.


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## elainem (3 Aug 2008)

Hi! Clubman and Brainne, I myself and not using herbal treatment, it worked for my friend who is a herbalist and whose thryoid was slightyly underactive. I have been taking orothodox medication (eltroxin) for years and am under the care of a consultant endocronologist. My thoyroid is completley non-functioning. When I am under periods of stress, I get tired, and my medication usually has to be increased for a short period, that's why I have to consider the impact of making a formal complaint, or starying in my current job on my health.


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## ClubMan (3 Aug 2008)

Fair enough. Not sure why you threw in the comments about your friend and her herbal treatment so though.


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## Vanilla (3 Aug 2008)

What is the best possible outcome if you follow through with a complaint at work re bullying? Will this person be removed? Is that at all likely? If so then certainly think about it ( but not at the cost of your own health). If not...


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## miselemeas (3 Aug 2008)

> In relation to whether I have been bullied before, no not at this workplace, but in England, myself and two of my colleagues were bullied because we stood up for someone who was being accused in the wrong. *We won*, through the union,* but it was at great personal cost,* and I was single at time and also without thyroid condition.


 
 If I was in your position I would take the matter through the official channels.  Your Union should be supportive in all circumstances  - you say the union rep is a friend of the asst dir of nursing, so just put everything in writing and (s)he can't ignore it.  You can always take it to the next level if no action is taken within a reasonable amount of time.  It's natural to be apprehensive of course, nobody likes hassle in their workplace/life but bullying is a very serious matter.  

Remember your previous success, however our own health is paramount so consult your physician, who may advise sick leave until the matter is settled.

Research other employment opportunities as you may wish to consider making a move regardless of the outcome.


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## dodo (3 Aug 2008)

Elainem You are in a position to stand to this person and win, You seem to be comfortable money wise, so a big weight of your shoulders,other people don't have that luxury and would be to afraid to take this person on.You in my opinion are in that position and she needs to be thought a lesson.If you just leave she wins and then she can just go a do it to another person who will have to put up with her bullying because she really need the money that this job brings.
I hope you have used a diary to note all this down, date and times etc, if not start doing it, 2nd don't know if this is allowed or not but could you record her on your phone. The easy option for you is to leave and who would blame you, but I don't think it is the right thing to do, do you ?
You have children and the chances they will be bullied sometime in their lives is quite high,so for me that is another reason why you need to stand up to this bully.


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## Diziet (3 Aug 2008)

Natural decency and justice say 'stand up to them'. Common sense says that you should weigh your options according to your own life and priorities.

The reality is that organisations close ranks when a complaint of bullying is made, and it gets very hard for the complainant. If the policy specifies an independent investigator, the chances of success are better. If the investigator is a senior person in the organisation, there is generally too much conflict of interest for the decision to be trusted and respected (regardless of how well they did their job). 

I know of a few very valid complaints of bullying - not one of the had a satisfactory outcome for the complainant. It is important to think is advance what you want to get out of this.

Having said that, getting a bit of support higher up the scale appears to be your best bet.


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## Sn@kebite (4 Aug 2008)

Hello, 

I don't think moving job might work (?) because bullies are basically jealous cowards and no matter where you go to work another coward will be jealous of the same physical/mental quality you possess which this bully notices. But I understand I have been lucky enough to never encounter such foul behavior.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Diziet (4 Aug 2008)

Sn@kebite said:


> Hello,
> 
> I don't think moving job might work (?) because bullies are basically jealous cowards and no matter where you go to work another coward will be jealous of the same physical/mental quality you possess which this bully notices.



I don't agree. There are good and bad people everywhere, and if the above was true then every competent employee would be a target of bullying, which is patently not true. 

If you move, there is no reason to say that you would encounter the same behaviour.


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## Mpsox (4 Aug 2008)

Very confused by a lot of things in this posting. 

Firstly you said your contract of employment had expired but they are keeping you on without giving you a new contract. How can they do that?

Secondly you mention holidays. who actually has the authority to grant you time off. ?I would imagine your line manager is responsible for agreeing your holidays. The fact that he/she refused you one day may be perfectly reasonable if it is not suitable or the holiday quota is full. Refusing you a days holiday is not actually bullying

Much of the rest of what you are saying is hearsay, hearing rumours and stories back from colleagues. Do you actually have any proof your manager said this? will your colleagues support you if you make a complaint?

I accept this is an emotional issue for you. However I would honestly question at this stage if a complaint would get you anywhere

If you wish to take it forward, I suggest you start keeping a diary, with dates and times of specific incidents. You could also ask for an explanation as to why your leave is being refused.


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## television (4 Aug 2008)

elainem said:


> H! Vanilla, thanks for your comment. I am definitely leaning towards finding a new job - might be difficult in today's economic climate and I live down the country, though not too far from Dublin that I couldn't get some temporary work.


 
Moving may not solve your problems. Although you are not to blame for being bullied, whos to say the conditions where this is happening now could not happen again somewhere else. You need to deal with this first. Then move, knowing you have come to terms with it and sorted it out.


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## pinkyBear (5 Aug 2008)

Hi there,
I have massive sympathy for you as I have a nursing background and I know how bad things can get. I left nursing as a result fo being bullied during my Nursing days. This is a complex one - I would seek advise from either your INO rep or Siptu rep about this. 

I would also recomend keeping a diary of events that occur, note any witnesses as well. Should you hand in your notice???? 

That really is up to you - if you dont see yourself in nursing absolutly investigate courses that will enable you to go in the direction you want to. You might also take heart your Director of Nursing may well be aware of this persons behaviour..

Best of luck I've been there..
P.


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## pinkyBear (5 Aug 2008)

Hi there,
I forgot to mention there are two very good agencies - Allience and Nurse On Call - I have no affilliation with either. 
I worked with both and found NOC brilliant and they also have work down the country..


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## elainem (5 Aug 2008)

Hi! everyone, thanks for your replies. Pinky bear thanks also - no one can believe what the bullying in nursing is like unless you have worked in it - I think its endemic. Its nice to hear from someone who knows what its like. Thanks for the info about nursing agencies - have already applied to Alliance and they said there is loads of work for rpn's.

I have decided to resign. The way I looked at it was that I, along with two others, were the target of a bully in the U.K., the fight was long, ardurous and emotionally exhausting. It's not that I have a problem standing up to bullies, but that I don't think it is worth it this time. I live a modest life, so can get by with rental income, maintenance from the children's dad for the children, and 4 agencies shifts a month should be about €1,000 after tax.

An excolleague of mine was also bullied in the same hospital. She went right to the top and HR investigated it. In the end she was forced to resign as the colleagues of the bully made life so difficult for her - spreading roumous, making nasty comments about her in front of others - she could not take on everyone. Typical bullying tactics where the bully tries to isolate the target. Like my ex colleague, my bully has been in the service almost thirty years. My colleague felt that it was almost impossible to get anywhere when complaining against someone who had been there so long as often the people in the top jobs, including the  union reps had been in nursing school/college with them, and would back the bully to the hilt because of long-held ties.

Hopefully, in four years time, having, hopefully, managed to complete Masters in Family Therapy, I will be working partly privately, and maybe partly in the HSE, but I will have much more autonomy than I have now as a staff nurse, and will be much more of my own boss - in my view this is the longer-term way of getting out of the situation, and a career in which  bullying seems to be endemic and so easily tolerated.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments and advice. Much food for thought and very enlightening.


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## Diziet (6 Aug 2008)

A very sensible plan elaine, best of luck to you. I have first hand experience of what damage bullying can do to people and how organisations close ranks, so I think you are making the right decision. The change in career path is a good, positive plan too.


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## alaskaonline (6 Aug 2008)

> If I was in your position I would take the matter through the official channels.


i agree! 
by the way, there are different types of bullying going on in your case such as the hostile environment harrassment i.e. your manager telling lies about you, gossiping etc. so as the previous posters stated make notes of all incidents (past and present) and start writing a report at home. your intuition will tell you then if you want to go ahead and post the official formal complaint or not.




> consult your physician, who may advise sick leave until the matter is settled.


 
absolutely agree with her. consult your doctor and see if you can get sick leave. you can then type of your complaint without being intimidated by the bully. being on sick leave will also create a much stronger case as your health seriously suffers under this enormous stress and this problem cannot be ignored.




> Research other employment opportunities as you may wish to consider making a move regardless of the outcome.


 
it's always good to keep your options open.

and last of all, you can also contact a Rights Commissioner at the Labour Relations Commission on 1890 220 227/01 6136700 at Tom Johnson House, Haddington Rd, D4.  they deal with bullying grievances through mediation and/or arbitration. they are independent adjudicators who investigate disputes referred to them under specific legislation and are the main State Agency with responsibility towards bullying. they can assess internal investigations to check procedural fairness as well as carrying out investigations themselves


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## pinkyBear (6 Aug 2008)

Hi there,
I think you have an excellent plan and agency work is brilliant - effectively you are your own boss - I did it for 7 years on and off. 

It is sad to say but I think you have made the correct decision - but what you could do is after you recieve your reference from the hospital - send the director of Nursing and HR a registered letter outlining the behaviour of the person in question. Therefore she will have to recieve it and read it and they cannot do anything to you. 

But you know I have never really looked back since I lefet nursing - in IT people are somewhat more balanced! normal even.. No matter how difficult and stressful the work is...

All the best elainm.. you'll never look back once you have left


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## elainem (7 Aug 2008)

Hi! everyone, thanks again your replies and advice. Pinky Bear, I'm glad people in other professions seem a bit more balanced and normal!! I'm always amazed at how unbalanced, almost sadistic (strong words - I know) in nursing (and other allied professions e.g. social work) - which are supposedly involved in healing and nurturing. Knowing that you have never looked back after leaving nursing is very reassuring as I am about to undertake a four year (and very expensive course) in Family Therapy to change careers. Thanks again to all of you.


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