# What happens with packages worth say €100 from UK after the car crash that is Brexit?



## WizardDr (12 Oct 2020)

Does anybody have a summary of this?

I think this is going to drive us insane.

BB - What is your view


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## Drakon (12 Oct 2020)

A movie obsessed colleague of mine used to regularly get items delivered from the USA to our workplace. 
One day a two foot tall statue of Rambo arrived. In order to sign for it, he had to pay something like €55 tax there and then. And he did.

Something similar I’d imagine if you were to order a two foot tall statue of BoJo, post Brexit, I’d imagine.


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## so-crates (12 Oct 2020)

Last year, as an experiment, I ordered something from Iceland (the country, not the shop!) as a lesson to myself in what the reality of the UK leaving the Customs Union would mean. The purchase, delivery, etc cost me €90, then when it landed in Ireland, it was another €47 before I could receive the package...


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## ant dee (12 Oct 2020)

Depending on what you import, would be about 5% Duties, 23% VAT, plus €15 flat customs clearance fee.

So the €100, would attract about €44 more.


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## dereko1969 (12 Oct 2020)

Simple solution, buy from the EU.


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## WizardDr (12 Oct 2020)

Many thanks but do you think Joe and Joan Public-Screwed- Taxpayers know?

Where is Charles Weston when we need him again?


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## PaddyBloggit (12 Oct 2020)

WizardDr said:


> Many thanks but do you think Joe and Joan Public-Screwed- Taxpayers know?



Unless they're under a bush, they should... We've been hearing so much about Brexit and the duties/taxes an exit by Britain from the EU will being.

As dereko says... source from the EU. I will when the time comes.


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## johnwilliams (16 Oct 2020)

what value package can you import before you have to pay above taxes etc? (also is it just value of item in package or total value uk shipping costs as well )


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## nest egg (17 Oct 2020)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Unless they're under a bush, they should... We've been hearing so much about Brexit and the duties/taxes an exit by Britain from the EU will being.
> 
> As dereko says... source from the EU. I will when the time comes.



I wonder in practice how easy it will be, the UK is physically very close to us, they speak the same language, have similar tastes/buying habits, use the same plugs etc... despite the size of the EU market, I expect it won't be as easy to source from there as we'd like. On the other side of the coin, it's a great opportunity for indigenous firms to step up.


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## WizardDr (17 Oct 2020)

Many thanks I think what is being said is that there will be VAT. It is the fixed charge that is disproportionate.

I think that with all the automation that Revenue have done that they could apply the VAT electronically to your PPS balancing and this would reduce the cost.

W


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## JMJR (18 Oct 2020)

Source from the EU when the time comes is a good shout.
I am looking forward to the breaking of the cosy agency arrangements that meant that for some goods EU suppliers could not engage with you and directed you to the UK agent.
J


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## torblednam (18 Oct 2020)

WizardDr said:


> Many thanks I think what is being said is that there will be VAT. It is the fixed charge that is disproportionate.
> 
> I think that with all the automation that Revenue have done that they could apply the VAT electronically to your PPS balancing and this would reduce the cost.
> 
> W



Great in theory but completely impractical / unfeasible to implement in the real world. 

Things that immediately jump to mind: 
1. uproar from civil liberties brigade, with accusations of Big Brother wanting to keep tabs on what everyone is doing / buying; 

2. a large number of people don't pay any tax and the collection process would therefore become very difficult and expensive for the State; 

3. you can be guaranteed people would shout identity theft and deny having received whatever items the liability attached to (just the act of them saying it, and being entitled to a fair due process around that assertion would render the whole process very expensive and inefficient). 

VAT is generally accounted for at trader level, rather than the state trying to chase millions of people for small sums, for good reason.


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## WizardDr (18 Oct 2020)

torblednam said:


> Great in theory but completely impractical / unfeasible to implement in the real world.
> 
> Things that immediately jump to mind:
> 1. uproar from civil liberties brigade, with accusations of Big Brother wanting to keep tabs on what everyone is doing / buying;
> ...


With regret the intrusion of big brother will be a reality as Revenue have dozens of people trained up.
They will be applying VAT and handing over collection to a 3rdParty where it is Cash-On-Delivery so they have outsourced the service.

The use of the PPS via the balancing statement is a most practical approach though Revenue despite having advanced systems have avoided for example combining  LPT and Income Tax - and avoided the tie up at great cost.

The LPT is a massive collection system and lo and behold is supposed to have every address in the country and you dismiss the suggestion that this would not be a simple process - with the address and Post-Code it could be incentivised such that having a postcode as part of the delivery allows the cost to be charged to your LPT and not have one the manual off the wall system costing extra.


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## torblednam (19 Oct 2020)

WizardDr said:


> The LPT is a massive collection system and lo and behold is supposed to have every address in the country and you dismiss the suggestion that this would not be a simple process - with the address and Post-Code it could be incentivised such that having a postcode as part of the delivery allows the cost to be charged to your LPT and not have one the manual off the wall system costing extra.



Not everyone owns property though, in fact the majority of the population doesn't. If an adult living with their parents imports a load of stuff and says nothing to their parents, mom & pop get lumped with a big bill, is that what you're saying? And you don't see any legal issues there?


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## DeeKie (19 Oct 2020)

The CCPC announcements on this are abysmal. Along the lines of “careful now”


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## Leo (19 Oct 2020)

DeeKie said:


> The CCPC announcements on this are abysmal. Along the lines of “careful now”



What role do you think they should be playing here?


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## Leo (19 Oct 2020)

johnwilliams said:


> what value package can you import before you have to pay above taxes etc? (also is it just value of item in package or total value uk shipping costs as well )



See [broken link removed].


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## Leo (19 Oct 2020)

JMJR said:


> I am looking forward to the breaking of the cosy agency arrangements that meant that for some goods EU suppliers could not engage with you and directed you to the UK agent.



That can be annoying alright, but I doubt it will change in all cases regardless of what the trade agreements are. Many of the UK companies will have legally binding agreements in guaranteeing them as the sole agents for UK and Ireland. Unless there are exit clauses that can be exercised or the red tape involved means the UK company want to give up the Irish market, we could be in for even more pain.


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## DeeKie (20 Oct 2020)

Leo said:


> What role do you think they should be playing here?


They have chosen to issue guidance to consumers. It is poor, in that it is vague, too general and does not spell out the practical effects for consumers.


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## Leo (20 Oct 2020)

DeeKie said:


> They have chosen to issue guidance to consumers. It is poor, in that it is vague, too general and does not spell out the practical effects for consumers.



So what is it missing? What effects are not spelled out? Just focusing on the taxes section, they state:



> When you buy from a business outside the EU, you pay Value Added Tax (VAT) if the value of the items plus shipping is €22 or more. VAT must be paid on imported items at the same rate that applies in Ireland for similar goods.
> 
> You also legally have to pay import charges such as customs or excise duties on items you buy from outside the EU which are valued at €150 or more. Before ordering from outside the EU, find out what VAT and import charges you may have to pay.
> 
> ...


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## JMJR (22 Oct 2020)

Leo said:


> That can be annoying alright, but I doubt it will change in all cases regardless of what the trade agreements are. Many of the UK companies will have legally binding agreements in guaranteeing them as the sole agents for UK and Ireland. Unless there are exit clauses that can be exercised or the red tape involved means the UK company want to give up the Irish market, we could be in for even more pain.



I would have thought that some sort of single market access right might apply?


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## vandriver (22 Oct 2020)

johnwilliams said:


> what value package can you import before you have to pay above taxes etc? (also is it just value of item in package or total value uk shipping costs as well )


From July 1st 2021,all parcels from outside the EU irrespective of value will attract VAT.
Your £10 item could end up costing €30 or more.


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## EmmDee (22 Oct 2020)

JMJR said:


> I would have thought that some sort of single market access right might apply?



Why? I think the argument made on the Brexit side was that "The EU needs us more than the we need them therefore will give us access to the single market". But since 2016 the EU has been pretty consistent - no access to the single market without allignment


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## yoyo21 (22 Oct 2020)

vandriver said:


> From July 1st 2021,all parcels from outside the EU irrespective of value will attract VAT.
> Your £10 item could end up costing €30 or more.


It only applies if the item and the p&p cost over €22 , anything below is exempt


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## Leo (22 Oct 2020)

JMJR said:


> I would have thought that some sort of single market access right might apply?



If they agree a trade deal to incorporate those terms then it will, but as it stands in the absence of such a deal, WTO rules will apply.


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## Leo (22 Oct 2020)

yoyo21 said:


> It only applies if the item and the p&p cost over €22 , anything below is exempt



I wasn't aware of this change, but @vandriver is correct. the €22 exemption is going away.


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## yoyo21 (23 Oct 2020)

Leo said:


> I wasn't aware of this change, but @vandriver is correct. the €22 exemption is going away.


That is news to me, that's a pity as it is very convenient to order small on line. Google translate will come on handy


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## johnwilliams (25 Dec 2020)

now that the deal is done ,what is happening  with this now ?


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## Leo (4 Jan 2021)

johnwilliams said:


> now that the deal is done ,what is happening  with this now ?



An Post say they have worked with the companies that ship ~95% of parcels here to apply any necessary duties are applied to your basket prior to purchase. 

Amazon have stated that Irish customers will face charges should they decide to return non-faulty products. Other vendors may well follow suit, or refuse returns of non-faulty goods now that the EU's online shopping protections no longer apply.


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## David_Dublin (4 Jan 2021)

Do any of the European Amazon sites have free delivery like UK site had re Amazon prime?


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## Zebedee (4 Jan 2021)

My understanding is that Amazon will automatically add Irish vat (on its own sales - not third party) so there shouldn’t be any additional costs. Apparently they are integrated with the revenue vat system (I don’t know the mechanics of this).

Other exporters in the U.K. should export without vat. So you’ll have to pay vat when it arrives (probably plus post “admin fee” of €10). It may not be worth while for some U.K. firms to set themselves up for export so we may find more limited choice.

At the moment I don’t see how addresspal works. U.K. vendors will add vat as it is going to a U.K. address so do you have to pay Irish vat plus admin fee when it arrives here?


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## Leo (4 Jan 2021)

Zebedee said:


> Other exporters in the U.K. should export without vat. So you’ll have to pay vat when it arrives (probably plus post “admin fee” of €10). It may not be worth while for some U.K. firms to set themselves up for export so we may find more limited choice.



That's not true, most UK companies that ship any kind of volume here have been reporting and paying Irish VAT for years.


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## PaddyBloggit (4 Jan 2021)

Someone suggested the German Amazon site on AAM so I'm going to source through it. Unlike the French site, you can change the language on the German site to English. Some descriptions are still in German but we'll see how it works when I actually buy something.

I'm going to wait a few weeks for the dust to settle and I'll see what goodies are out there.


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## Leo (4 Jan 2021)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I'm going to wait a few weeks for the dust to settle and I'll see what goodies are out there.



I looked at a few items that I was buying in the run-up to Christmas. Similar prices, but €19 delivery charge for Ireland on a <2kg package smaller than shoe box.


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## PaddyBloggit (4 Jan 2021)

Leo said:


> €19 delivery charge for Ireland on a <2kg package smaller than shoe box.



... so not as rosy as I first thought. One good thing out of this will be that I will stop spending on frivolous things.


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## BeeLazy (7 Jan 2021)

Does anybody know if I will have to pay duty and VAT on a phone which is being returned to me from the UK . I returned the phone before Christmas and they are sending me a replacement. I can't find anything on Revenue.

Ber


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## gipimann (7 Jan 2021)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Someone suggested the German Amazon site on AAM so I'm going to source through it. Unlike the French site, you can change the language on the German site to English. Some descriptions are still in German but we'll see how it works when I actually buy something.
> 
> I'm going to wait a few weeks for the dust to settle and I'll see what goodies are out there.



I bought a tablet cover from amazon.fr after Christmas.  I had tried and failed to buy from the UK and German sites, as the sellers (in China, I guess) said they couldn't deliver to Ireland due to Covid - their couriers wouldn't accept parcels for here.
The French package was delivered today, no problems with duty or additional charges.
Postage was higher than UK site, but not by much, and of course it's all priced in euro which helps.


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## Páid (8 Jan 2021)

Leo said:


> I wasn't aware of this change, but @vandriver is correct. the €22 exemption is going away.


That website states that the changes come into effect on the 1st July 2021.

Revenue still quote the €22 limit with 0% VAT here - [broken link removed]

I have a €10 book coming from the UK next week so I'll find out what happens then.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Jan 2021)

Páid said:


> I have a €10 book coming from the UK next week so I'll find out what happens then.



I hope it's not coning by DPD:

DPD UK halts road delivery services to Ireland amid Brexit changes


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jan 2021)

gipimann said:


> I bought a tablet cover from amazon.fr after Christmas.


For whatever reason amazon.de is generally better than amazon.fr on selection, price, and delivery times.

amazon.de actually stocks a very wide range of English books.


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## Páid (8 Jan 2021)

The book is discounted on the UK Amazon site and twice the price on the German Amazon site (including shipping).

I could cancel the UK order as it hasn't been sent yet but I'm going to leave it to see what happens.


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## Paul O Mahoney (8 Jan 2021)

Just watching the BBC and there are some serious issues with paperwork with a lot of trucks not being able to get into either here or France. 
They had a "representative " of some logistical group, said something like " the Irish and French authorities should show flexibility in order to get over these issues " not a direct quote but you get the gist.

My view is that they decided to leave and they got a deal,  but in reality did absolutely nothing in preventing this mess.


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## Páid (8 Jan 2021)

That book is in Aldi for €6.99 today by coincidence so I've cancelled the order from the UK.


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## Purple (10 Jan 2021)

Even if you order from Amazon.de there is a good chance it will be shipped through the UK so it will be held up for ages.


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## kinnjohn (29 Jul 2021)

Hi
I am looking to import a secondhand manual it is in book form from the UK,
cost 30 GBP, 
The actual postage royal mail to Ireland is 11.95 GBP
If  the person in the UK post it to me will it get held up for import duty /Vat
Can I pay any taxes due when it gets delivered,


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## kinnjohn (30 Jul 2021)

Hi
Secondhand Book/ manual is 30 GBP 
Shipping by royal mail is 11.95
Total 41.95 GBP
If it is posted by royal mail can I pay vat  on the 41.95 to post on delivery,


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## peemac (13 Aug 2021)

kinnjohn said:


> Hi
> Secondhand Book/ manual is 30 GBP
> Shipping by royal mail is 11.95
> Total 41.95 GBP
> If it is posted by royal mail can I pay vat  on the 41.95 to post on delivery,


Once it is clearly marked as a book, there should be no vat on it.

Possibly also try book depository or https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-ie 

Both of whom have huge selection including many manuals and low shipping and registered with customs.


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## kinnjohn (13 Aug 2021)

Thanks, peemac
I paid a total of  41.95
I got rid of the packet it was delivered in,  I noticed on the packet they charged vat,
 Thanks, I will know next time,


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