# 2 bed investment apartment, in/around Dublin city center. Any areas better / worse?



## evman99 (16 Jul 2013)

I am looking to buy a 2 bedroom investment apartment in or near Dublin city center. What would be considered good areas and what are areas to avoid ?

Thanks


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## oldnick (16 Jul 2013)

A good area to live in is not always the same as a good area  in which to invest.

For example, the yield on 2 bedroomed apts in much of the north inner city - Gardiner St , Capel St, Parnell St, Smithfield is much higher than around Baggot St.

The best  "ready-reckoner" is to pick  apts from daft.ie  myhome.ie which are for sale .
And then pick those that are for rent.
You will invariably notice that the slightly more down-scale areas produce a couple of percent more than the slightly posher areas.
(to take the example to extremes you can get a very high yield out of centre in parts of Crumlin and B'fermot and an abysmal yield in Aylesbury/Anglesea area)

Other than the usual provisos of an area not being next to a bunch of druggies whether in a clinic or rough corp flats (sorry I'm a snob), and being as near as possible to a LUAS line I cannot think of a particular area which should be avoided.

None of the above takes into consideration possible increases in capital values , a subject we don't discuss on AAM.

But whatever or whether you buy you MUST get hold of existing tenants and chat to them - say you're moving in and what do they think. They'll tell you far far more than any estate agent. Female tenants will quickly point out any problems in the apt complex


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## evman99 (16 Jul 2013)

thanks for your in depth profile ....

would you consider these areas as rough ?.... 

Gardiner St , Capel St, Parnell St


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## oldnick (16 Jul 2013)

Following is purely my own prejudicial view -working 33 years in that area and  owning apts for much of that time.....

There are hundreds of apts in and next to those streets mostly occupied by respectable generally youngish people , Irish and foreign. Not rough but certainly not posh.

Gardiner St does border a vast council housing area -and there are corpo flats  along parts of it, so that  would be ,to me, the least desireable street -though the nearer to Talbot Street the better. I wouldn't want an apt overlooking the street -traffic by day rowdies by night.

 Parnell St from Parnell sq to Capel St is - to me -  very slightly better and loads of shops for tenants at the ILAC. Still a few social housing areas -Dominic St- leading off it.

Capel St is perhaps least "rough" and is closest to  places like Temple Bar and the civilised south-side, and next to Jervis Centre.
It's also a quieter street for traffic -though still busy during the day. Quite quiet at night though.

I've concentrated buying around Capel street and tenants seem to like it. Maybe the lack of giant apt complexes helps. Not that many apts for sale on Capel St.

Dublin city centre has improved over the last decade and I believe it will continue to do so- even the northern part.


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## mercman (16 Jul 2013)

OP, I think it is pure madness  asking others on a forum as to what and which parts of Dublin are the best and most secure parts of the city to live. In reality as it's your money, you might be best to travel the areas concerned, morning, noon and night and then form your own opinion. Then if it all ends in tears, you only will have yourself to blame.


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## oldnick (17 Jul 2013)

One big aspect of AAM is being able to ask questions and get opinions from others who may have experience or knowledge or just a particular view about the subject.


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## evman99 (23 Jul 2013)

Hi

Do you know the Portland Lock apartments on Dorset street. What is your view on that area?

Tnx
Evan


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## shesells (23 Jul 2013)

OP you are clearly looking at areas where you think there is value in apartments. Personally I wouldn't go near them with a barge pole. I'm with mercman, check the areas out at various times of night and day. You might want company at night.


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## oldnick (23 Jul 2013)

Good rentals -close to centre and only few hundred yards from both Mater and Temple St hospital-good for rentals one beds 900 two beds 1.000-1.200 depending.

The yields here are good.
I said before the best investments are not the places one would choose to live. However, although near some poor (rough?) areas it is verging on Drumcondra and I've not heard horror stories about it. This complex is in a quiet area overlooking the canal -but I don't know what it's like at night as it's slightly out of the area I know best.

I agree that perhaps one should recon an area  and I dont think i can give more advice on this or other parts of inner city.


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## evman99 (4 Sep 2013)

*Bridgewater Hall off Summerhill Parade*

Hi Oldnick

If you dont min I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the area around Summerhill Parade and the Bridgewater hall apartments.

Take care

Evan


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## Hans (5 Sep 2013)

My daughter lived in portland lock area for a few years and even though I worried about her at night she assured me that she walked back late at night on her own (most of her friends lived in southside) and never felt in danger (not that stopped my worrying) but then would she be any safer doing that in any other part of the city. The apartments there are lovely and big with a balcony over the canal.


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## mercman (5 Sep 2013)

evman99 said:


> I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the area around Summerhill Parade and the Bridgewater hall apartments.



If you want an up to date current opinion, why not call in to the local Garda Station and the question directly, and then you'll find out about the area, the people and the nocturnal habits of the people.


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## dereko1969 (5 Sep 2013)

Sorry OP but it seems to me that you don't know Dublin at all. Would you be better off looking for value somewhere else where you do know the lay of the land a bit better? 

Presumably you'll be appointing an agent to look after the apartment? Would talking to one of them first be an idea?


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## mercman (5 Sep 2013)

Please refer to Post 5 that I made the same point. 

If the OP holds such a desire to rid himself of money, he might be best donating it to a credible charity. Some of the areas mentioned in this post would not be classed as friendly. Even the Alsations go around in pairs !!


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## RainyDay (5 Sep 2013)

Are you confident that residential property investment is the best home for your money in the current environment, and that you have a good understandings of the risks involved?


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## dub_nerd (5 Sep 2013)

oldnick, thanks for the replies.

Would posters mind not discouraging the OP from asking questions, or respondents from answering. You have no idea of his/her current state of knowledge, and it may be a completely casual question antecedent to seeking more detailed advice or doing their own investigations. The site is about sharing information, and there are others (like me) also casually interested in the answers. I repeat, you don't know the state of the OPs knowledge or their plans, so it is very presumptuous to tell them it is "pure madness" to merely ask a question.


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## Knuttell (5 Sep 2013)

evman99 said:


> I am looking to buy a 2 bedroom investment apartment in or near Dublin city center. What would be considered good areas and what are areas to avoid ?
> 
> Thanks



Three words followed correctly will at least set you off on the right foot,research research research.

You are off to a good start!

Smithfield,Inchicore,Phibsborough,IFSC (pricey)along the quays,Finglas,Capel st would be a very good bet.

Anywhere near to good transport links and amenities but close to the city is a good bet.

Nick is correct in every point he has made,with rentals its very much down to net yield.

Other points to consider

When you are looking at properties/apts do checks on the current property management agents.

What is their reputation like...google them.

What is the sinking fund like?

What are the annual fees?

In newer developments,the snags were not ever completed out,dragged out over the years and large sums of money are now needed to fix these snags.

Has the developer been NAMAED?

Google the particular complex you have in mind,nothing worse than tenants leaving one after the other either due to social problems or paper thin partition walls,tenants tend to post these experiences on fora.

Is there a higher % of owner occupiers (good sign)

How quickly will this rent and for how much..place a dummy ad,see what the response is like (let the phone ring out and return the call,unfair to put callers to expense)

Yield is your friend if you aren't getting a good return its simply not worth your time.10% plus

Do your sums,right down to the pound shilling and pence,factor in voids and every possible drain/cost on your finances.

Look at how future budgetary measures will impact your business,will tax relief on interest be cut further?

Will the property tax be hiked?

Best of luck with it mate.


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## delgirl (6 Sep 2013)

dub_nerd said:


> Would posters mind not discouraging the OP from asking questions, or respondents from answering. You have no idea of his/her current state of knowledge, and it may be a completely casual question antecedent to seeking more detailed advice or doing their own investigations. The site is about sharing information, and there are others (like me) also casually interested in the answers. I repeat, you don't know the state of the OPs knowledge or their plans, so it is very presumptuous to tell them it is "pure madness" to merely ask a question.


Would have to agree with this.

Just bought apartment myself in the last week in Dublin in an area where there are very few apartments of this size for rent in an affordable price range. 

It was a receiver sale and the price was, IMHO, an absolute solid investment considering the yield, the location, the quality of the build, the quality of the interior finish.

Went to 4 open viewings and there is huge interest in the Dublin area at the moment, particularly it seems from cash buyers. 

Each viewing attracted between 30 to 50 viewers. Was surprised at the number of Chinese investors who were at all 4 viewings and, according to the various agents showing the properties, they are buying all over Dublin for cash. Other viewers we chatted to were middle aged people who decided to invest as the return on the savings is dwindling, particularly since the reduction in interest on State Savings schemes.


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## sam h (6 Sep 2013)

Delgirl - Do you mind if I ask where you got the details for the receiver sale?  

Old Nick & Kutnell - some excellent points there, most I had on my check list, but there are a few extra which I will bear in mind,  

Kutell, you mentioned _"Has the property been NAMAed"_
What would be the various pros/cons of this (assume price could be a pro but management might be an issue)


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## rekhib (6 Sep 2013)

evman99 said:


> If you dont min I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the area around Summerhill Parade and the Bridgewater hall apartments.


 
Hi Evan, I'm not familiar with Bridgewater Hall itself but there is a Dublin bus garage in Summerhill that gets noisy at night so not ideal from a rental perspective, just something to bear in mind. It backs up the point about visiting the area day and night.

As @oldnick says, there are great yields in the north inner city at the moment. Best of luck with your investment.


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## dub_nerd (6 Sep 2013)

Delgirl -- would you also be able to say what area/post code it's in and what the approximate gross yield is?


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## Knuttell (6 Sep 2013)

sam h said:


> Kutell, you mentioned _"Has the property been NAMAed"_
> What would be the various pros/cons of this (assume price could be a pro but management might be an issue)



They are apparently very slow to deal with and I certainly wouldn't want to run my application back through underwriting again if at all possible,given that you could be talking about months then this is a reality. 

The other big downside for me would be NAMAs intention.Are they going to off load the estate or complex to the State or to a housing Charity who will in turn use it exclusively for social housing?

Too many known unknowns for me to consider dealing with them.


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## delgirl (7 Sep 2013)

sam h said:


> Delgirl - Do you mind if I ask where you got the details for the receiver sale?)


The four developments I viewed were all advertised in the national media and were posted on myhome.ie. According to the agents, all the apartments for sale in these 4 locations I viewed have now gone sale agreed.

The EA's adverts didn't state that these were receiver sales, but you can usually tell if it's a number of apartments in a development completed in or around 2008. Also if you call them, they're happy to tell you if it's a receiver sale and who the receiver is. 

Allsop Space also have a number of properties in receivership for sale not only by auction, but also by private treaty. They appear to be the favoured Estate Agent of the former Bank of Scotland (Ireland).

In my limited experience, the Receivers appear to be most interested in cash buyers and will accept an offer of the asking price very quickly if you have the deposit ready and can provide proof of funds.



sam h said:


> Kutell, you mentioned _"Has the property been NAMAed"_
> What would be the various pros/cons of this (assume price could be a pro but management might be an issue)


You really have to do your homework if buying from a receiver as you won't be able to get the same information or guarantees you would get from a private seller/developer. 

For example, Homebond will not cover these properties and, in the case of the development I am buying, Homebond cancelled their guarantee as soon as the Receivers took over. I'm not terribly worried about this as I think the Homebond guarantee was grossly overrated and not worth much in the first place, as can be seen from the Pyrite scandal. We've had the property surveyed and are happy with the report.

The contract from the Receiver's solicitor also includes lots of 'special conditions' that you wouldn't normally find in a standard contract, so you need a very good solicitor to advise you.

As for the speed of the purchase, perhaps it depends on who you are dealing with. In my case, the contract for sale was with my solicitor 2 days after my booking deposit was accepted and our closing date is estimated to be in approximately 3 weeks time.



dub_nerd said:


> Delgirl -- would you also be able to say what area/post code it's in and what the approximate gross yield is?


Dublin 18, I'm not sufficiently brave to tackle the city centre market like Oldnick , and the gross yield is 8%.


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## JohnJay (7 Sep 2013)

I lived in this development for a few months, between when I sold my old place and bought my current house. http://www.daft.ie/1728622

It was, by far, the best run development that I have ever seen. The management company employs their own manager/caretaker. It is slap/bang in the middle of the city, between O'Connell St and Temple Bar. I was living in a very small 1 bed, but the 2 beds look larger. My landlady at the time told me that she never had any bother finding tenants and the rent was pretty high. If I had the cash and was looking for an investment property I would be looking at something around there....


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## Knuttell (7 Sep 2013)

delgirl said:


> and the gross yield is 8%.



What is the net yield?Thats the bottom line.

If I wasn't getting 9.5-10%+ net yield then it just would not be worth the punt for me anyway.


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## ajapale (7 Sep 2013)

oldnick said:


> A good area to live in is not always the same as a good area  in which to invest.



Evman, this is some really good advice form oldnick, have a read of some of his replies on other threads. This is the property investment forum if you simply want to find out what an area is like to live in then post in location, location, location.



RainyDay said:


> Are you confident that residential property investment is the best home for your money in the current environment, and that you have a good understandings of the risks involved?



Have you considered RainyDays advice?



Knuttell said:


> Three words followed correctly will at least set you off on the right foot,* research research research.*



Some gread advice from Knuttell.



evman99 said:


> Hi
> I am an investor located outside of Ireland.
> I am looking to buy an investment property (buy to let) in Ireland.
> Does anyone know the ins and outs of getting a mortgage as a non  resident. Can anyone recomend a bank or mortgage broker that has  experience in doing it.
> ...



Have you considered the excellent advice given by LDFerguson in reply to your post last year?

Finally, have a look at www.thepropertypin.com for some good ongoing commentary.


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