# What about Bank of Ireland



## rodger (10 Mar 2016)

I see Aib and PTSB introducing redress schemes. I even hear mention of Kbc.

But what about BOI?

What are they doing?


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## Black_Adder (10 Mar 2016)

Be patient. The approaches by Banks are due in by end of March.
What will be highly interesting is what the Central Bank know (or don't know).
It would be pure idle speculation on my part [a virtually certainty] to suggest that the Central Bank may know more than they are
letting on - which I am not saying for the avoidance of doubt.


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## Onceagain (25 Mar 2016)

*BANK OF IRELAND CUSTOMER'S*

BOI have now set up a mortgage tracker examination section. They are conducting a review, due to be completed by the end of this year.
Details are as follows. People can ring or they say they will be in contact with customer's who are affected directly!! 

1890882722 and by post to Bank of Ireland Tracker Mortgage Examination, PO Box 400, Castleisland, Co Kerry.


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## PadKiss (25 Mar 2016)

This from a lender who assured the Central bank it had captured all tracker cases in 2011 with 2091 accounts restored to their tracker margin. I know that all cases were not captured in this initial investigation and will be working to ensure that all accounts are investigated this time including the 1,800 affected staff. Be certain of it
Padraic


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## MAX01 (25 Mar 2016)

Why is the IBOA not fighting for the 1800  BOI staff who lost their Trackers? I rang them in 2009 and they did not want to know, said it was not a union issue. Every member of the union pays over 300 euro subscription yearly. Larry Broderick is the highest paid Union exec in Ireland. I hope all the staff affected have cancelled their subs, perhaps they might do something then when they see their cushy jobs under threat


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## Onceagain (25 Mar 2016)

Internal memo to staff.


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## Onceagain (31 Jul 2016)

Article in Irish Times by Ciaran Hancock on Friday stating that bank of ireland  are contacting customers who are due reddress, has anyone received calls letters yet??


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## mister32 (31 Jul 2016)

That's interesting about bank of Ireland.

But didn't make any sense.

The central bank has already said the first step is to restore trackers. Put people back on the correct rate.

Subsequently a process will be discovered to best provide redress.

So what Boucher said makes no sense because first Bank of Ireland needs to identify who lost their tracker.

He didn't even mention that.


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## Hogmeister55 (23 Sep 2016)

There seems to be no information coming from Bank of Ireland at all - has anyone received their tracker back, got a letter or even been told their case is being looked at? 

There was a report of 1 tracker being restored as part of the BOI investigation a few months back but no details given of why.

I thought as each case of error was found the tracker had to be restored immediately with compensation to follow later. If an estimated 3300 trackers are expected to be restored why have we heard nothing yet?  Surely a few of these 3300 have been looked at by now?


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2016)

Where does the figure of 3,300 come from? 

Brendan


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## Hogmeister55 (23 Sep 2016)

The Irish Times article on July 29th stated the following:-

"Financial services broker Padraig Kissane, who has pursued cases with the banks on behalf of borrowers, has estimated that about 3,300 customer accounts are affected at Bank of Ireland, including about 1,800 staff, and around 3,000 at AIB. "

I have no idea if this estimate is correct but assuming it is then it is surprising no one has heard anything yet.


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## todo (23 Sep 2016)

I'd also like to know why Bank Of Ireland do not feel the need to communicate with their customers. As part of the process the central bank should have told each and every bank to provided progress reports to each account that is being reviewed, surely at this point they know what the scope of the review is and have identified which accounts they are going to review.


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## Gerry Canning (23 Sep 2016)

todo.

BOI don,t feel the need, because their co-incompentants and friends in Central Bank shield them, as they have shielded them for years , whilst pretending they are all really  consumer focussed..
BOI and most Banks  are largely aided by anyone who still believe Banks have anything approximating to a moral compass, (and that includes posters.)
It continues to astound me on posts that say things like (do banks not realise ) etc. Of course they do and rely on our thought that they are honourable to lull us into accepting them.
It is sad but Banks must not be trusted, and BOI are to be the tracker checkers ! .

Padraig Kissane , would be redundant if there was a semblance of equity in Banking.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2016)

Hogmeister55 said:


> "Financial services broker Padraig Kissane, who has pursued cases with the banks on behalf of borrowers, has estimated that about 3,300 customer accounts are affected at Bank of Ireland, including about 1,800 staff, and around 3,000 at AIB. "



OK. I wonder where he got the estimate from? 

ptsb had 1200 customers affected but had a much more systemic issue - a supposed computer glitch which allowed people out of their fixed rate early at no cost.

I am not aware of any similar problem at AIB or BoI. 

It could probably be estimated by the provisions they have made in their accounts for the cost of the redress scheme.

Brendan


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## todo (23 Sep 2016)

Gerry Canning said:


> todo.
> 
> BOI don,t feel the need, because their co-incompentants and friends in Central Bank shield them, as they have shielded them for years , whilst pretending they are all really  consumer focussed..
> BOI and most Banks  are largely aided by anyone who still believe Banks have anything approximating to a moral compass, (and that includes posters.)
> ...



Couldn't agree more Gerry, its completely unfair, they can do as they please and we will always be there to bail them out when they need it.


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## Hogmeister55 (23 Sep 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> OK. I wonder where he got the estimate from?
> 
> ptsb had 1200 customers affected but had a much more systemic issue - a supposed computer glitch which allowed people out of their fixed rate early at no cost.
> 
> ...



In July AIB confirmed they have around 3000 cases and have started contacting customers - they also added an extra 85m provision to cover the redress in addition to 102m they already had set aside. 
The statement by Bernard Byrne apologised and admitted the bank was "not sufficiently clear with customers or we failed to honour contractual commitments". No details as to whether it was a widespread computer or human error. 

BOI have made no provision to date and will only say they are complying with the central bank investigation.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Sep 2016)

Thanks Hog

Do you have a link to that announcement? I looked but couldn't find it.

Brendan


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## Hogmeister55 (24 Sep 2016)

Hi Brendan,

I can't post the link as I am a new forum member. I got the information from the Irish independent (Charlie Weston) on 28th July - titled "AIB to tell 3,000 they are getting trackers back"


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## PadKiss (24 Sep 2016)

Hi Brendan

In reply to above straight forward really BOI Staff informed me of the 1,800 number of staff that are affected and that leaves 1,200 as my 'wild guess'. This figure also comes from the narrowness of the investigation by BOI in 2011 where 2,096 were uncovered which was so narrow that BOI took full advantage of it in terms of who they had to restore to fill the need so to speak of the request from the Central Bank. Mr. Boucher and his merry bunch of executives, must be in some way accountable for this, Then there is the cases I have restored in the past number of years either through the FSO or directly with the bank which leads me to be certain there has to be at least another 1,200 affected customers with similar complaints and entitlement to their tracker margins given the level of loans done during this time.


Another aspect of this investigation is the extraordinary result that all lenders are guilty of some messing with their customers but not one senior manager has been held accountable as yet and this is the aspect of the investigation that is not taking place. It needs to be remembered here that this was in the main family homes they were messing with and it was all deliberate, and I know you don’t believe that but I have to totally disagree with the evidence I hold.

I am certain meetings took place in all the institutions with regards to trackers, as the elephant in the room was tracker loans either commercial or domestic. I'm not sure that it will ever get out but it won't be for the want of trying on my part. I read with anger the interview in the Irish Times today with the Chair of AIB stating


_"Richard Pym says legacy problems largely solved and State is free to sell its equity stake"_


That’s a lovely way of saying it is now behind us that we ripped off our own customers for the past 6 years or more and it's now largely solved, with not one customer compensated and plenty still over paying on their loans. The arrogance is astounding.

But then again maybe people like Sarenco and you are right and all is well within our septic pools of lenders and they are at least sorting it out and I am just ranting. The resistance that still exists is remarkable even after being caught. What they did is a disgrace and they should be ashamed to call themselves bankers in the traditional sense. But to go for the weakest and most vulnerable of their customers, like families is a crime and was also fraudulent. The people in charge who gave the go ahead for the crime that took place should be held accountable and I have been concentrating on getting it right for customers for the most part but don’t think I am forgetting the other aspect of this which I will be beginning to state a lot more from when the banks have finally drawn up some Redress package.  A package and set of rules that will I'm sure be swayed towards the lender first and customer second as the PTSB one is.

But then again "these legacy issues are largely solved". Are they????

 Try saying that to the people who have lost their homes in this debacle irrespective of which lender it is, something these families have to live with forever. Some legacy solving that is.
 There you go my rant for the day only it's not a rant as I believe in everything I state, and somebody must do so for the customers affected on a daily basis now ongoing for 6 years or more.

But then again there is the Bank view........

  'But, no guess what, we are back in profit now so we can sort you out (but we wont make it easy) and sorry about that but you know pillar bank, profit, country, strength and all that'......  

Regards,


Padraic Kissane


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Sep 2016)

PadKiss said:


> Another aspect of this investigation is the extraordinary result that all lenders are guilty of some messing with their customers but not one senior manager has been held accountable as yet and this is the aspect of the investigation that is not taking place.



There are enforcement actions taking place against ptsb and Ulster Bank by the Central Bank.  The Central Bank takes ages to bring these to conclusions.  They will probably reach a settlement rather than have a public hearing. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Sep 2016)

PadKiss said:


> But then again maybe people like Sarenco and you are right and all is well within our septic pools of lenders and they are at least sorting it out and I am just ranting.



Which presumably explains why I host Askaboutmoney.  And why I have been highlighting the fact that Irish lenders are charging about 1.5% to 2% more than the eurozone average. And why I go to the AGMs of AIB, BoI and permanent tsb and raise these issues - usually on my own.

It is also why Sarenco has put forward the only well argued case I have seen against ptsb's arbitrary choice of prevailing rate.

Brendan


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## Sarenco (24 Sep 2016)

PadKiss said:


> But then again maybe people like Sarenco and you are right and all is well within our septic pools of lenders and they are at least sorting it out and I am just ranting.



Padraig

With the greatest of respect, I never suggested that you were ranting and I certainly never suggested that all was well with our banks.

The internal bank memo from October 2008 reported on Prime Time last year stated that roughly 1,800 BoI staff members signed MFAs in 2006/07 when they opted for the discounted staff fixed rate product, that those MFAs superseded the terms of their original loan offers and did not entitle borrowers to roll onto a tracker rate at the end of the fixed rate term.

I have no idea whether or not that memo accurately summarises the contractual position.  However, you stated very clearly on that Prime Time programme that these 1,800 borrowers were contractually entitled to roll onto a tracker rate at the end of their fixed terms.  You offered no explanation as to why that was the case and I would again invite you to explain the rationale for your position.


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## PadKiss (24 Sep 2016)

Don't change the ground here Brendan I am only talking trackers on this Thread not SVR's and you know my thoughts on that matter which I know is another rip off and I take exception to your view on you being the only one campaigning for lower SVR's its not only your ground with respect. You are wrong on some aspects of the Tracker matters as is Sarenco but either of you will never likely accept that which by the way is also fine. 
 Padraic


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## Sarenco (24 Sep 2016)

Padraig

I note that you have again declined to offer any explanation for your position.

I appreciate that you are emotionally involved in this issue as your professional reputation largely rests on proving your case with regard to the 1,800 BoI borrowers.  However, if you are saying that I am "wrong" on certain tracker issues (which is obviously entirely possible) then I think it's only fair that you offer some explanation for your own position.


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## PadKiss (24 Sep 2016)

None coming to you so respect that please thanks. Emotional , dont claim to know me


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Sep 2016)

PadKiss said:


> Don't change the ground here Brendan I am only talking trackers on this Thread not SVR's



Here is the exact context of your comments:



PadKiss said:


> _"Richard Pym says legacy problems largely solved and State is free to sell its equity stake"_
> 
> 
> That’s a lovely way of saying it is now behind us that we ripped off our own customers for the past 6 years or more and it's now largely solved, with not one customer compensated and plenty still over paying on their loans. The arrogance is astounding.
> ...



I have read the article and he does not appear to mention trackers at all.

I respect the work you have done on trackers. I have often referred people to you to progress their claim. 

If I question your arguments in some cases, it does not mean that the lenders are doing everything right. 

You are taking a number of ptsb cases to the High Court. You should be welcoming people who support what you are doing, challenging your arguments.  

Brendan


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## PadKiss (24 Sep 2016)

_"I have read the article and he does not appear to mention trackers at all."_​But their legacy issues are sorted, now isn't that a surprise in the middle of an ongoing investigation that is not complete
Never a problem having discussion/debate and even argument with you, respect your views actually, it does not mean I agree with you
But this particular thread is about Trackers and not SVR's


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## Sarenco (24 Sep 2016)

PadKiss said:


> None coming to you so respect that please thanks.



Fair enough.

But I hope you forgive me for not accepting the infallibility of your pronouncements.  

If you are not prepared to present your arguments then I can only draw my own conclusions.



PadKiss said:


> Emotional , dont claim to know me



Are you saying that you are not emotionally involved with this issue? 

Your posts certainly give the impression that you are -  "septic pool of lenders" is hardly a detached turn of phrase and you did say that you read an article "with anger"...


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## Onceagain (25 Sep 2016)

We have all been told by Boi tracker review section that our trackers are under review, since April, we would have been informed by boi at this point if we were flogging a dead horse. The central bank are giving them too much time. Not sure why it's taking so long, but we all knew Boucher be the last nut to crack.


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## Hogmeister55 (25 Sep 2016)

Onceagain said:


> We have all been told by Boi tracker review section that our trackers are under review, since April, we would have been informed by boi at this point if we were flogging a dead horse. The central bank are giving them too much time. Not sure why it's taking so long, but we all knew Boucher be the last nut to crack.



I have contacted the BOI helpline and they would not even confirm my account was being looked at, just gave me a standard reply saying that IF I had a tracker it would be reviewed, they also said that unless an error was found that I would not receive any letter at all - so I don't necessarily think that hearing nothing is good news. Based on the helpline information I may never hear anything - ever. 

That is the worst about this review - no communication at all.


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## Gerry Canning (29 Sep 2016)

Dear Padkiss,

AIB,s issues ARE largely solved because of the 6 year Statute of Limitations !

On my (pet) hate Payment Protection Insurance ,PPI, all Banks have, with the connivance of Central Bank, Ombudsman etc got away with stealing 2.5 Billion.
I find it strange the Uk pays out yet we did not.
I leave you to trawl through mortgage issues !

Brendan ,

Arn,t enforcement proceedings a lovely way of doing little slowly ?
And by the time they are concluded most people have moved on.

Central Bank is NOT to be trusted .


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## Ammo (29 Dec 2016)

Just wondering if anyone has received any further information recently. No communication from BOI in months, we were told we would hear something before the end of the year. Also does anyone know of any groups campaigning against Bank of Ireland? Would like to get in touch with people in the same situation.
Cheers,
Ann.


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## todo (29 Dec 2016)

Ammo said:


> Just wondering if anyone has received any further information recently. No communication from BOI in months, we were told we would hear something before the end of the year. Also does anyone know of any groups campaigning against Bank of Ireland? Would like to get in touch with people in the same situation.
> Cheers,
> Ann.



Hi Ammo, What happened in your particular situation? I'm a Bank of Ireland customer waiting for the review to come to an end, I've have not received any written communication that my mortgage is part of the review, but I have been told it verbally over the help line.


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