# Doctor giving sick cert and a prescription over the phone?



## errigal (9 Nov 2006)

Recently I was off work sick, basic flu. Needed a sick cert for work.
Rang my GP, who i barely know. Over the phone I described my symptoms, and he said he would leave a sick cert at reception for me to collect, and that he would throw in a prescription just in case I needed it in later days.

When I collected both, I found out there was a 55 euro charge. (the same price as if I had seen him)... wasn't best pleased.

What do people think that 
a) I was charged 55 quid essentially just to get a sick cert. (I never wanted the prescription anyway)
b) That a GP would prescribe without even examining a patient.

Are both common practice ?


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## Purple (9 Nov 2006)

Your GP should be brought up in front of the medical council for that. You should report them.


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## Dreamerb (9 Nov 2006)

Seems pretty steep to me. I had to make a panicked call to my GP's surgery (I don't know my GP very well either, so analogous situation), because I wanted to get an inhaler prescription before going on holiday. I explained situation to receptionist and got a call from my GP about ten minutes later - he just wanted to check I wasn't suffering exacerbated symptoms or anything. We had perhaps a two or three minute chat, and he left the prescription for me to pick up. There was only a €10 charge for that - for about the same level of GP work, I should think. I'd certainly feel a little hard done by in your boots.


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## JohnnyBoy (9 Nov 2006)

I'm curious Errigal ,did u expect to be charged?


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## elcato (9 Nov 2006)

I haven't heard of this been done meself and would think its bad practice to do this by phone. However, why do you think the doc should not charge you for giving his opinion by phone and leaving out the cert for you ? Would you prefer that you had to get out of bed and go and see him ? €55 is standard consultancy charge for a doctor from my experience.


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## ubiquitous (9 Nov 2006)

Purple said:


> Your GP should be brought up in front of the medical council for that. You should report them.



Why, exactly?


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## Purple (9 Nov 2006)

ubiquitous said:


> Why, exactly?


The Doctor did not know the medical history of the OP or examine them. 
Issuing a prescription in these circumstances is unsafe. 
There have been numerous cases highlighted in the media of Doctors issuing (selling) sick certs to people that they have not examined or to people who they have examined but are not sick. This is, at the very least, unethical.


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## ubiquitous (9 Nov 2006)

Purple said:


> The Doctor did not know the medical history of the OP or examine them.


I'm not a medic, nor have I any connection with the medical profession but I don't think that providing advice by phone without an examination is inherently unethical. The North East Doctor on Call service have provided telephone advice to my family on several occasions including once when one of our children (aged only two weeks old at the time) displayed worrying symptoms. This was very useful to us at the time and I could not by the wildest stretch of the imagination class this assistance as unethical.



Purple said:


> Issuing a prescription in these circumstances is unsafe.


This may be the case depending on the circumstances but it hardly holds true for every situation?



Purple said:


> There have been numerous cases highlighted in the media of Doctors issuing (selling) sick certs to people that they have not examined or to people who they have examined but are not sick. This is, at the very least, unethical.


Again this depends on the circumstances.


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

It has been known from time to time that patients need and require repeat prescriptions. these can be arranged over the phone and i imagine the doctor would charge for this. In some instances patients can keep a doctor busy on the phone for well over 20 minutes and this would sometimes incure a telephone consultation fee or a prescription fee. Perhaps the presription that your doctor left were'nt for actual prescribed drugs but could have been gotten "over the counter" from your pharmacy.


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## ClubMan (9 Nov 2006)

I have obtained repeat prescriptions over the phone from my _GP _and there was no charge when I picked them up. I guess that's just his policy and other _GPs _may charge. I don't think that a phone consultation is necessarily untoward if the patient has *some *history of attending the _GP _in question (as seems to be the case here).


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## errigal (9 Nov 2006)

Just to add to the picture:

Ive attended the GP on 3 occasions before, over the last 7 years, for unrelated issues.

The phone consultation this time took about 2 minutes and was not in depth.

The prescription was for an anti biotic which is not available over the counter.

While I thought there may be some fee, it was not mentioned until I arrived to collect the sick cert. I thought it might have been 10-20 euro, thought 55 was pretty steep personally.


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

Doesn't sound ethical. I would be concerned


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## ClubMan (9 Nov 2006)

[broken link removed] mentions on page 8 "telephone consultations" which would suggest that they are not inherently unethical.


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## ubiquitous (9 Nov 2006)

If errigal's gripe is largely about the fee they were charged then there is hardly any question of ethical codes being broken. After all errigal did not complain when the doctor said they would leave a sick cert at reception for him/her to collect, and that a prescription would be included in this. I needed it in later days. If no fee had been charged, there would presumably have been no complaint.

In the circumstances a €55 fee sounds very steep but it is hardly serious enough to warrant a Medical Council investigation.


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

telephone consuls aren't unethical , but the prescribing of anti biotics without seeing the patient seems a bit strange, esp in this day and age.


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## errigal (9 Nov 2006)

This is correct. I was more than happy with not having to have a proper consultation, mainly because Id rather not waste a doctors time with a basic flu - the only reason I contacted the GP at all was that I needed a sick cert.

As no charge was mentioned during our conversation, I suspected there may be no fee, or a basic fee, but I felt properly ripped off with a fee of 55.

Ive suspected from previous visits that this GP is particularly fond of the greenbacks, so if the general feeling is that I was shafted in comparison with what other GPs do, it will probably be the last time he gets my business.


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## ClubMan (9 Nov 2006)

Brianp said:


> telephone consuls aren't unethical , but the prescribing of anti biotics without seeing the patient seems a bit strange, esp in this day and age.


In many cases _GPs _will make diagnosis and possibly prescribe certain drugs based on a simple _Q&A_ consultation with no physical examination - e.g. asking about symptoms and any previous history of reactions to or risk factors related to the drugs being prescribed. Whether this is done face to face or over the phone makes no odds as far as I can see.


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## ClubMan (9 Nov 2006)

errigal said:


> This is correct. I was more than happy with not having to have a proper consultation, mainly because Id rather not waste a doctors time with a basic flu


Are you *sure *that your _GP _prescribed antibiotics? After all they only work on bacterial infections and flu is a virus!


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

Im sure if you return the Prescription, and have chat to the receptionist and explain to her that you didnt want a prescription but only a sick cert they might reduce the price. Remember there are many G.P's nowadays and doctors dont like to loose patients. If you haggle enough, you should get your way.


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## errigal (9 Nov 2006)

Yes, 100% sure.

Also thought that was a bit strange afterwards. They were prescribed on the basis that "if" it got worse, in particular if my cough got into my chest. I never had any intention of getting them anyway so didn't really pass much heed. I suspect he was giving me the prescription as a means of justifying the charge, even though I didnt ask for it, or want it, given my symptoms at the time.

However I asked the receptionist if the charge would still apply without the prescription, and was told yes.


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

Many doctors have their fees outlined in their waiting rooms, ie blood test, repeat prescriptions etc, I would think €55 is very expensive for a sick note.


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## ubiquitous (9 Nov 2006)

errigal said:


> I suspect he was giving me the prescription as a means of justifying the charge, even though I didnt ask for it, or want it, given my symptoms at the time.



Quite likely. I think the business schools call this "adding value"  




errigal said:


> However I asked the receptionist if the charge would still apply without the prescription, and was told yes.



Well she would, wouldn't she... 



errigal said:


> ... if the general feeling is that I was shafted in comparison with what other GPs do, it will probably be the last time he gets my business.



Not a bad conclusion, and probably worth your €55 outlay to convince you to go elsewhere next time!


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## Brianp (9 Nov 2006)

Point well Made. Learn and move on


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