# First Active hassling recent widow over mortgage



## MandaC (31 Dec 2008)

My friends husband died at the end of August.  Two weeks later she wrote to the Bank and explained the circumstances. She also went into the lender (First Active) the following week  (local branch) to explain the situation.  Girl in branch very helpful but when girl phoned head office to explain there were exceptional circumstances, head office did not want to know and just said, can she not pay herself.  Apparently because of the current economic climate, there are people looking to reschedule left right and centre. She is not working and has no income whatsoever.  However the girl in the Branch persisted with head office and my friend lodged in forms for a six month break.  That would have been in September and the break has not yet been approved.


The following week, my friend came home and her neighbour told her that there were two people sitting for hours outside her house.   They had called to the neighbours house and were asking the neighbours for contact details/information/etc.

When she got home, she saw his card said was mortgage "intermediary" and when she phoned he said he was just in the area. She asked if they could just not have phoned, or asked them to contact her by phone, as she was embarassed that they were asking neighbours questions about her. 

She explained that she had already called to the Branch and gave contact details of whom she spoke to. He was not aware of the contact.


Up and as far as last week, she is getting letters from a company called Cash Flow Services and Solicitors, etc.  Each letter is getting nastier.  They do not appear to want to listen at all and are saying these letters are computer generated.  Their internal communication system seems to be very poor with left hand not knowing what right hand is doing.

I feel it is putting undue pressure on someone already in a stressful situation.


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## PaddyW (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*

Sorry Manda, but did the husband not have mortgage protection in place?


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## MandaC (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*

Yes, mortgage protection is in place and a claim has been lodged.  However, mortgage protection wont be investigated  until the death certificate issues (after the inquest)
All of this has been explained to FA (both in person and in writing) and they dont really want to hear.  She asked could she get the six month break, whilst the mortgage protection claim was lodged and investigated.

There really is nothing that can be done at the moment and hassling someone is not helping.  She is getting to the stage where she is afraid to open her post.


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## Black Sheep (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*

This is a truly scary story and there were we all thinking our mortgage protection policies would actually protect us in such circumstances. That mortgage provider should be sued for breach of confidence - disclosing details to neighbours and harrassment.
Thank God my last ever mortgage repayment is due next Monday and I wa in touch with EBS to day to confirm same.


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## Complainer (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*



MandaC said:


> Yes, mortgage protection is in place and a claim has been lodged.  However, mortgage protection wont be investigated  until the death certificate issues (after the inquest)
> All of this has been explained to FA (both in person and in writing) and they dont really want to hear.  She asked could she get the six month break, whilst the mortgage protection claim was lodged and investigated.
> 
> There really is nothing that can be done at the moment and hassling someone is not helping.  She is getting to the stage where she is afraid to open her post.


She really should consider the Joe Duffy option, or other options to embarrass them into leaving her alone until the insurance claim goes through.


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*

MandaC said




> There really is nothing that can be done at the moment and hassling someone is not helping.



I think you should contact Head Office and notify them that you are going to make a complaint to the Ombudsman for maladministration. 

Check out the Consumer Protection Code as I am sure that they are breaking some aspects of the code. 

Many of us are financially literate and would be irritated by such behaviour, but most people are intimidated by it and it's not fair for a bereaved woman to be suffering it. 

Brendan


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## ClubMan (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*



Brendan said:


> I think you should contact Head Office and notify them that you are going to make a complaint to the Ombudsman for maladministration.
> 
> Check out the Consumer Protection Code as I am sure that they are breaking some aspects of the code.
> 
> ...


I agree - make a formal complaint to the lender and take it to the _FSO _if necessary. Perhaps somebody can help her with this as I can imagine that dealing with such issues may not be her foremost concern so soon after a  (sudden by the sounds of it?) bereavement.


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## MandaC (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*



agapanthus said:


> MandaC,
> While not doubting your story that just does not seem right, there are standard forms now in FA branches to apply for 6 mth break.  I would advise your friend to either go back to her branch or contact Credit Management in Head Office directly to discuss her case.




Can vouch that everything has been done by the book (I have been helping her and would be very financially literate) and yes there are the standard froms which were completed and lodged with the Bank when she visited branch in September. The delay seems to be in processing them.  Despite contacting many different personnel in the Bank, she is getting nowhere and is constantly told the moratorium(if that is what it is called) is not approved as yet!!!)    The six month break will nearly be up by the time it is approved, so it is probably pointless to even pursue it at this stage.    Also the mortgage intermediary person start quizzing her about the contents of the life protection policy, to which she started tearing the house apart looking for it and got stressed to high heavens.  Turns out the original policy document was lodged with the Bank(they insisted on this before draw down of the mortgage initially)  Just more rubbish hassling someone when they d'ont need it.

She is coming down to stay with me for weekend and I will talk to her and see if she is willing to make an official complaint (so this wont happen to anyone else) and if so, we will draft a letter on her behalf.


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## MandaC (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: Has anyone approached their lender to reschedule their mortgage?*



agapanthus said:


> Brendan,  just to be clear FA dont hand the forms out over the counter but they are there for use in conjunction with a meeting to discuss all options where there are difficulties.  Genuine cases are not usually refused, in cases where there are underlying problems possibly going back before the recent credit crunch then sometimes a different line is taken.  LTV is also very important.



Yes that is exactly how the girl in branch (who was quite helpful) dealt  at the meeting arranged.  Forms were completed and lodged then, but nothing else.

Is it usual to get approval in writing?


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## joe99 (5 Jan 2009)

Hi Mandac, 
  Sorry to hear about your friends situation. 
  I dont understand why the bank would continue to contact your friend considering the circumstances?

  Just a couple of points. 

    From dealing with banks on Probate cases, they are always understanding – The life policy clears the Mortgage & the bank is happy. Has your friend asked her solicitor to confirm everything with the bank? 
    Cash flow services are a debt collection agency, they seam to be involved very early. Was the mortgage already in  arrears prior to her husbands death? 
      I have seen a number of clients in mortgage arrears receiving visits from a local representative, they are usualy calling to help customers & make a recomendation. E.g. Payment breaks, interest only, reduced repayments etc. Did your friend try to make an appointment with the person?
    Im not sure if there is any breach of confidentaility - correct me if i am wrong - The individual left a card at your friends address? If they discussed your friends affairs there is a definate breech of confidentiality.
I would imagine this is exremely stressfull. Would recommend contacting your Solicitor & this individual from the FA Intermediary section for help.


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## VOR (5 Jan 2009)

MandaC, your friend has been treated terribly by F.A. She should not accept this shabby treatment during her very difficult time.

Joe99 makes many valid points and I agree that it is important to find out if the mortgage was in arrears prior to the death of the husband. This will play a part in how she should proceed from here. I however do not accept an "intermediary" calling up to the house is there to help.

If the arrears only started after the bereavement, I would do the following:

1) Go to a solicitor and get him/her to send a letter. Personally I would mention intentional infliction of emotional distress in the letter. She won't win it in court but it will be enough to get F.A. to back off.
2) Go to the branch and lodge a written complaint as request for a moratotium has not been processed in a timely manner.
3) Make a separate written complaint about having received calls, vists etc. after engaging the branch. 
4) Ring the head office and give the account number and the name on the account. Your friend should say she does not want to receive any more calls, letters or visits. Do not discuss the account with them. Just say that and no more. Everything else she says will just lead to more upset. Ask for the name of the agent and note the time and the name for your records.
5) Run the ICB (it will cost €6) and see if First Active's inaction has damaged the credit rating.

If she does the above, you will have lodged 2 complaints personally and one through a solicitor. They have 5 days to reply and acknowledge.
If the ICB is showing arrears since Sept, they will need to change that immediately on approval of the moratorium.Record the time and the agent's name on every call received. 

And when all is said and done I would not settle for an apology. Compensation should be paid.


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## danash (5 Jan 2009)

Could I suggest one more tack with FA - make a request under the data protection act 1988 for access to all information held on file by FA in relation to her. My guess is that the bank will be embarrassed by their failure to respond to this and will call her approving the moratorium immediately and back off in every aspect.

You have very specific rights under the data protection act and every financial institution is aware of the provisions. They do have 40 days to respond but the volume of work it generates usually drives a Manager to seek an alternative solution and ask you to withdraw the request if they solve your immediate problem.

I have used it several times and it is a very good way to get the attention of a senior manager.


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## rameire (5 Jan 2009)

i would get your friend to ring the head office, and ask have they actually received the payment break request from the branch, because the payment breaks should be actioned within their service level agreement, ie 3 days from receiving the request, if they never received the request it has been lost somewhere, then get onto the branch that got your friend to sign all the requests, they should hold copies of the payment break request, and get them to send up the request as a complaint and to be actioned urgently. 
i would also speak to the credit management team within the first active call centre and they will be able to advise of the process and time frames of requests and they might organise a meeting with your friend.

they prefer people to be actively seeking help and information regarding arrears and payments, instead of hiding away.

also because a payment break was requested under the circumstances posted, it does not mean the customer will get them.
they should not assume, the request will be approved in writing and should only be taken as approved until the confirmation is in your hand.


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## joe99 (5 Jan 2009)

I agree with VOR – with respect to the steps to take if the mortgage was not already in arrears. However, given the level of letters from Cash Flow Services & the difficulty that she is experiencing in getting a Payment Break… It sounds like the Mortgage must have been in arrears prior to the bereavement. The original post indicates that the bank was looking for contact details for the customer??
  I don’t see Danash’s point in making a request under the data protection act? This could cause further delays for the individual & wont help the situation.
I think she needs to engage her solicitor to liase with the bank - confirm the situation with FA.


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## danash (5 Jan 2009)

joe99 said:


> I don’t see Danash’s point in making a request under the data protection act? This could cause further delays for the individual & wont help the situation.
> I think she needs to engage her solicitor to liase with the bank - confirm the situation with FA.


 

And a solicitor wont delay the situation ? 

I'll wager she gets a resolution within hours of a data protection request. The banks hate dealing with them and usually look to resolve the problem asap. Quicker and cheaper than a solicitor.

If you want a quick solution this will help.....as I said I have used it three times and have had a resolution the same day in every case.


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## MandaC (5 Jan 2009)

There were no arrears prior to the bereavement.

A complaint will issue in writing about the way they have handled things to date and will take it from there. 

I was not really posting for advice in the first place before the thread was split, though I appreciate the feedback.  

I was just posting a response to Brendans query about how the Banks have dealt with people trying to reschedule their mortgage due to redundancy/money troubles.  The circumstances relate back to that (albeit indirectly) 

Again, thanks to all.


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## Hobbs256 (7 Mar 2009)

Make sure every thing is documented and complain to the Financial Regulator I would not accept this behaviour from any bank!  

We have a First Active mortgage and when we got married my wife got her name changed on the mortgage, it only took them six months to do it, they are useless.


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## MandaC (8 Apr 2009)

I have had a lot of people asking for an update on this thread, so just to briefly update you.  

Shortly after I posted another debt collector (outsourced) called unnanounced on a Saturday afternoon.  My friend was not in, but when she returned there was a card (no business address) just "call me re an urgent matter."  Because of circumstances of death, she thought it might be someone legal and phoned back in a flap.

Turned out to be debt collector.  The original person who called out had not updated the file, so the whole thing just went through the motions.  My friend ended up breaking down on the phone.

That was the last straw.  On the Monday, she contacted the Financial Regulators office and was given a number for to lodge a complaint with FA.  This lady was excellent and had everything sorted overnight.  An apology was issued, but there was no real reason given for the file not being updated by the various people involved.  It was acknowledged that the action should have been taken at the visit to branch.  It is amazing how you can get something sorted when you get through to the right person.

To cut a long story short the moratorium commenced for six months and with a bit of luck everything will be sorted by then (death certificate issued)

Whilst the treatment by the Bank was not malicious, the errors led to extra distress on someone who could not take it at the time.

Many thanks to those who offered help, it is more than appreciated.

What I have also learnt from the overall scenario is that everybody should have their paperwork in order.  It is not something you think of and nobody likes to think will happen, but when things are all over the place, it makes it more stressful for people left behind.

Thanks


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## Vanilla (9 Apr 2009)

Just wanted to make a point re someone's comment earlier that a solicitor would only delay things in a case like this. This is so far wide of the mark, it is laughable. This is exactly the kind of situation that you should go to your family solicitor with. Unfortunately we have many clients each year in similar positions and are well used to dealing with this situation.  Not only do I ( and hundreds of other solicitors) deal with all the paperwork for existing clients in this situation, make the claim, make the application for a moratorium, get interim certs from the coroner office, eventually vacate the old charge and get the title in the surviving spouse's sole name, but generally we do so without charging a fee.


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## Bronte (9 Apr 2009)

MandaC said:


> Whilst the treatment by the Bank was not malicious, the errors led to extra distress on someone who could not take it at the time.


  While it may not have been malicious it was contemptable behaviour by the bank.  It's just not good enough that an institution can treat a person who is grieving in such a manner.


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## MandaC (9 Apr 2009)

Will add that Solicitor is involved in sorting out the Estate.


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