# Double laser Transaction



## cosy (27 Dec 2005)

I have just checked my bank account online and have noticed two laser transactions for the one shop (not duplicate).  I used a chip and pin card bought an item for €38.50 (have receipt) but my account also shows a laser transaction for the same shop,same date for €98.50.  Who should I contact.  Thanks in Advance


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## sandrabing (28 Dec 2005)

Where i work, such queries come from the bank who request a copy of signed slip or confirmation on pin been entered. If we cannot provide this we refund the customer. Contact your bank who should make all the necessary investigations for you.
Since it was a laser transaction, try and cast your mind back and try to remember if you asked for cashback. In most queries I deal with this is the case.


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## cosy (28 Dec 2005)

Thanks Sandrabing, definitely not cash back.  I had only one purchase in the shop for €38.50 (one item no cash back) receipt shows €38.50. Will ring bank today re other transaction.


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## Sue Ellen (28 Dec 2005)

I very rarely use Laser especially with cashback but if memory serves me well this would not necessitate a separate transaction and €98.50 would be an unusual amount to request?


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## mimi rogers (29 Dec 2005)

Hi,
Contact the store or the bank and this issue should be sorted within a matter of days. It could take a bit longer at the moment because of Christmas. Having the receipt makes things a lot easier. As you have internet banking, print of a statement that shows the incorrect amount being debited. You should get it back. Did you have enough funds to cover the amount of 98.50? It would be terrible if you didn't. I'd say that when complaining. I once had a DD come out one week early. Thank God I had enough money in the account. I would hate to get hit with a fee.

Mimi


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## ClubMan (29 Dec 2005)

cosy said:
			
		

> Thanks Sandrabing, definitely not cash back.  I had only one purchase in the shop for €38.50 (one item no cash back) receipt shows €38.50. Will ring bank today re other transaction.


Do you mean that both the receipt and the customer copy of the _Laser _docket both state €38.50?


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## cosy (30 Dec 2005)

Yes ClubMan and it got worse because a third amount of €88.35 was debited to my account yesterday from the same shop. When I contacted the bank this €88.35 and the €98.50 were "non verified pin transactions" while the €38.50 was veified by me entering my pin.  The Bank hinted along the lines of fraud in the shop as I had my card(which I've now cancelled).  They advised me to contact the shop and see what they had to say.  I contacted the shop today(first day back) the manager was surprised to hear my story and asked me was I sure that it was not the banks fault.  I gave her the details of the three transactions and showed her my original receipt for €38.50.  She called 15 minutes later and said that she had found the copy receipt for €38.50 but could not see the other two transactions on file,  she was very apologetic and said that they would contact the bank credit my account for the other two transaction while they "looked into it".  This was at 9:15 this morning and I have not heared from her since.

I have a few questions:

I think that the bank should have contacted the shop not me.?

I feel that I have a right to know how my laser was used (fraud) to debit my account for approx €180 ?

Will I be charged for my new laser card and if I am should the shop payfor it?

THANKS IN ADVANCE AND I HOPE IT ALL MAKES SENSE


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## ClubMan (30 Dec 2005)

Sounds very dodgy alright from what you've posted. I too would have expected the bank to follow this up like they do with suspected unauthorised credit card transactions when they do chargebacks to check of the payment was ever authorised. I would get onto them (the bank) again to insist that they do something although I'm not 100% sure what the terms & conditions mandate in this sort of situation.


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## Alex (31 Dec 2005)

i'd be furious if it happened to me. 

Alex.


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## cosy (31 Dec 2005)

I am furious,  I call into the shop again today and the manager doesn't seem to be doing anything.  She asked me did I get the money refunded into my account (I Haven't), she said that she contacted the bank yesterday morning and I should have got my refund.  She says that she has checked all Laser transactions and cannot find the two others that were debited to my account, I asked her did she talk to operator number 5(as per receipt) who served me on the day, "No she hasnt turned up for work today" was her answer.  When I asked her could I see the origanal shop copy of the €38.50 to see was my laser number on it she said that she had checked this and that only the last 4 digits are displayed and that she would have to go to the safe and get it but would I call back as the shop was busy.  I didnt call back as it was late.  She was very uncomfortable talking to me and I am now suspicious of her.  The shop is a franchaise and is very small with about 3 people working in it.  What should I do next?


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## RainyDay (1 Jan 2006)

Tell her you're reporting the theft to the Gardai in 48 hours if you don't have a satisfactory explanation. Don't accept the 'shop busy' stuff. Start talking loudly in front of the other customers about theft & fraud. Ask her how busy her shop will be if you start walking up & down outside with a placard highlighting the theft.


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## mimi rogers (1 Jan 2006)

I really do hope you get this issue sorted soon. Maybe you might name them and shame them after you get it sorted? I would like to avoid that shop if this is what they are doing to customers.

Mimi


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## cosy (3 Jan 2006)

Talked to the Bank this morning and they are seeking a full paper trail for the 3 transactions.  The new chip and pin cards are not much better than the old laser card as most people forget the pin and the signature is verified (same as old card).  When you do a laser transaction your card number does not appear on the customers copy just the last four digits EG *************1234,  Somebody told me that the full laser number appears on the shop copy???? can anybody confirm and again it is a chip and pin laser card.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

cosy said:
			
		

> The new chip and pin cards are not much better than the old laser card as most people forget the pin and the signature is verified (same as old card).


 Indeed. In fact some would argue that the old way of authorising payments with a signature is actually more secure than _Chip and Pin_!



> When you do a laser transaction your card number does not appear on the customers copy just the last four digits EG *************1234, Somebody told me that the full laser number appears on the shop copy????


 I don't think that the full number appears on any printed dockets.


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## JP1234 (3 Jan 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I don't think that the full number appears on any printed dockets.



I work for a place that does visa/laser/mastercard transactions and it definitely does print the full number along with the expiry date on the "shop" copy. 

Also, the shop could easily do the refund without the bank having to look for a paper trail.

If I was the OP I would march into the shop at a peak time and shout very loudly about unuauthorised transactions by the shop and see how quickly it gets resoved


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## cosy (3 Jan 2006)

> I work for a place that does visa/laser/mastercard transactions and it definitely does print the full number along with the expiry date on the "shop" copy


 
This is where I think the problem is, A person working in this shop used my laser number and entered two other transactions, took cash from the till to match theses two extra transaction.  The shop is telling me that there is no laser receipt for theses two transaction (Bull ****), Anyway the Bank need proof of theses transactions and are working on that, they told me that the three transactions took place inside one hour on 22nd December.  I have not made any further contact with the shop as I dont trust/believe the manager.  It is in a shopping centre and the manager of the shopping centre will not give me the owners name or phone number,  he says that he will contact the owner with my phone number???  As the shop is a franchise I am going to make contact with original company in UK and see if I can get the owners name.  If not I think its time to name and shame, WHATS JOE DUFFYS PHONE NUMBER


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

JP1234 said:
			
		

> I work for a place that does visa/laser/mastercard transactions and it definitely does print the full number along with the expiry date on the "shop" copy.


 I stand corrected so. I just checked a whole heap of _Laser _receipts from over the Xmas period and none of them contained the full number. I guess my survey sample was not large enough.



			
				cosy said:
			
		

> WHATS JOE DUFFYS PHONE NUMBER


http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/


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## cosy (3 Jan 2006)

Clubman

It doesn't print you number on "customer copy"  but prints it on "Shop copy"  which amazed me.  I did mention this to the bank and they were surprised as well.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

I see - seems strange alright. Anybody know why?


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## JP1234 (3 Jan 2006)

I think it's supposed to assist in tracing transactions in the case of dispute! 


There is some more information at www.aib.ie/merchantservices 
about their obligations regarding storing of data etc which might be useful to you Cosy.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

My mistake above regarding the printing of _Laser _card numbers in full on customer receipts - I rechecked my stash and noticed that some (e.g. _Aldi, Dunnes_) don't print them in full while others (e.g. _Clery's, Lidl_) do.


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## ribena (3 Jan 2006)

A friend of mine a few years ago ordered something from the internet with her credit card and a month later discovered 2 small transactions on her statement which weren't hers.  She rang the bank (AIB I think) and told them that she hadn't purchased these two items and the bank got back to her quite quickly afterwards and told her that she didn't have to pay for the transactions.  It appears that somebody working in the place in America where she ordered her original product had used her credit card details to make further purchases.  It does make you wonder how secure anything is.  Somebody in that shop has definitely pilfered that money and I would think that you should report it to the local Gardai in that area.  They will go to the shop and speak to the Manager and get it sorted for you quickly.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2006)

ribena said:
			
		

> A friend of mine a few years ago ordered something from the internet with her credit card and a month later discovered 2 small transactions on her statement which weren't hers.


In this case a _Laser _debit card was used so presumably the money is already gone and it's a case of getting it back - unlike a credit card where the card holder is not necessarily out of pocket immediately when suspicious/unauthorised transactions arise?


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## MugsGame (3 Jan 2006)

The bank don't have a valid authorisation for the cashback,
so I'd expect them to refund you the money. Then they have
to reconcile the difference with the merchant. 

At the moment, you are sorting out the bank's problem for them.

Bank procedures for dealing with credit card fraud are probably
cleaner and quicker, because of the consumer credit act, and 
because credit card fraud is more common than LASER fraud, but
I still think you have a case against the bank even if the bank tell you 
to deal with the merchant.


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## cosy (4 Jan 2006)

My bank account is reimbursed (today) for the two transaction but I am still seeking an explanation how this happened  My local Bank (BOI) are dealing with it and are very helpful, my initial contact was to 365 call centre and they cancelled my card and suggested that I contact the merchant.

I contacted the Franchise company in UK yesterday who have an area rep in Scotland and she will contact me today.  I gave then the date and time of the transactions and they can log on to the till from UK and check it out.  It seems so easy to me to solve this as the shop has a security camera (if it works) and has the date and times of the three transactions. They asked me had I notified the Police which I haven't, Should I?.

Thanks for all help and advice and I'll let ye know final outcome.


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## Danmo (4 Jan 2006)

Has anyone else noticed that Lidl receipts always contain your full laser no.? I am always extra careful when disposing of...


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## JP1234 (4 Jan 2006)

Glad you got your money back.

If it was me I would still make a report to the Guarda, it was theft and who knows on what scale the person(s) are doing it, they took nearly 200 euro off you in a matter of minutes, if it's a busy shop just think of the multiples of money they could be raking in doing this.

Good luck


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2006)

Danmo said:
			
		

> Has anyone else noticed that Lidl receipts always contain your full laser no.?


Yes - see above. They are not the only retailer that does this.


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## Alex (4 Jan 2006)

any of my laser receipts never contain the full number. i guess i just haven't made a purchase in a shop that dispalys the full number yet. by the way cosy, i'd report them if i were you. they messed you about.

Alex.


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## Lauren (4 Jan 2006)

Mods, is there a problem with naming the shop here? I certainly don't want to shop there or in any of their branches!


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## Alex (4 Jan 2006)

to be honest, i would like to know who they are too. i wouldn't shop there.

Alex.


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## jem (4 Jan 2006)

I will come back to u on that.


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## kkontour (4 Jan 2006)

Danmo said:
			
		

> Has anyone else noticed that Lidl receipts always contain your full laser no.? I am always extra careful when disposing of...


You need to buy yourself a shredder.  Guess where they were for sale last week...


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Jan 2006)

Please don't name the shop. We are all curious and we would love to know, but you are making allegations/implications of criminal activity. I don't want to put my house on the line defending a defamation case.

The news media have more resources to verify your story and take legal advice about publishing this very interesting story.

You have done the right thing. You have dealt with the shop and the bank. You have dealt with the owner of the franchise. You have got a refund. 

I think that the franchise owner should be allowed an opportunity to respond to you in full. If you are not satisfied with the response, then you should go to the Gardai, especially if you think that others have been affected. I think you should also ask Bank of Ireland if their fraud investigators have checked this out. The guys should not have a Laser facility if they have not got the procedures in place to deal promptly with fraud.

Brendan


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## cosy (4 Jan 2006)

All joking aside lads, some customer receipts contain full laser number,some contain last 4 digits.  Most shop copy laser receipts have full laser number and expiry date.  Why do they need this when they swipe the card and you enter pin or verify signature???  The bank was unaware that the in-store copy has all theses details, Although this varies from shop to shop!!!!


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## cosy (4 Jan 2006)

Brendan

I have no intention of naming the shop, but the level of customer care/relations is very poor (no contact from the shop/franchise) all they tell me is our rep will contact you.  There is alot of confusion about laser card numbers/receipts as per my previous post.  

thanks

T


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## cosy (11 Jan 2006)

I got a letter from the Franchise company in UK yesterday which stated how they pride themselves in customer care ........  "We will be in touch with you in the near future when our area rep comes back from Holidays"  They had the cheak to include a €10 voucher for the shop.  I got the money re-imbursed into my account as per previous posting but have I  a right to know the whole thing  happened??   I am in the process of replying to the letter and sending back the miserable voucher.


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## bond-007 (11 Jan 2006)

I still would contact the fraud squad for their opinion. Rep on holidays is not a good enough excuse.


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## Alex (11 Jan 2006)

if it happened to me i would report them.

Alex.


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