# going to court - do we need solicitor



## clzn (17 Sep 2010)

Myself and my friend were in partnership as electricians until last year when we had to close up.  We deregistered the company (Not a limited company) but we owe 5700 euro to one supplier.  We have assured him that we would pay him whenever our circumstances allowed us to.  We have been stung ourselves by builders who wont pay us and we know we will never see this money.  We are now both on welfare and both our families are struggling to meet mortgages, other debts etc.

We have now received a letter to appear in court within the next few weeks and my question is - can we just go there ourselves and tell the judge of our circumstances.  We genuinely cannot afford to hire a solictor to act on our behalf.  This is a frightening time for us as we have no experience of being brought to court.

Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you


----------



## Brendan Burgess (17 Sep 2010)

Hi cizn

Oddly enough, I have been unable to find any online explanation of the court procedure. 

I suggested to the Courts Service that they should produce one, but they dismissed my suggestion. 

You will find a fair bit of information in this thread, but it needs to be written in a more readable format. 

Time has agreed to write a Key Post on the topic.

Have they got a judgement against you? If  not, and you are not disputing the debt, then I assume that you can consent to the judgement which would save you legal costs.


Brendan


----------



## clzn (17 Sep 2010)

Thanks for reply Brendan.

This started a few weeks ago when I received a solicitors letter to my home address stating that we should pay the money or legal action would be taken.  We used to use my home address as the business address.  I wrote back to the solicitor stating our current circumstances and heard no more until today when my ex partner rang me to say he had received a letter at his home from the solicitor outlining a date to appear in court.  In answer to your question about a judgement, the answer is I dont know - what is a judgement,.  We are not disputing that we owe the debt only that we cant pay it.  What do you mean we can consent to the judgement.  This is a new experience for us and we really havent got a clue about the legal system.


----------



## Time (17 Sep 2010)

Have you received a civil bill or a civil summons yet? You need to find that out first.


----------



## clzn (19 Sep 2010)

HI Time
Ive just seen the letter and there is a civil summons with it.  It gives different options - 1. pay up the debt plus costs - which we cant do. 2 - dispute the debt and send it to the court - we are not disputing that we owe the money, 3 - sign a consent form with the plaintiffs solicitor to be given time to pay  - this is not an option for us either as it doesnt look like our finances are going to change anytime soon and 4 - do nothing and appear in court in a few weeks time.
What do we do about going to court - do we write down all our outgoings and what we get on welfare and show the judge that we genuinely dont have the money. We have every intention of paying this bill if our circumstances change and we have told the supplier that in previous conversations.


----------



## Time (19 Sep 2010)

As there is no defence, there is no need to go to court at this time. They will get a default judgement and they will start enforcement by sending the sheriff to seize goods if any, judgement mortgage on any property owned by you and then by a summons to obtain an instalment order. It is at this hearing you will get to put your side i.e. on welfare, income and outgoings. The judge will then decide what you can afford to pay.


----------



## clzn (19 Sep 2010)

i am even more frightened now Time.  What do you mean by judgement mortgage.  There were 2 of us in this partnership - will both houses be affected.  Im scared of a sheriff coming to seize goods - what kind of things would he take


----------



## michael m (19 Sep 2010)

*Re*

Our company went through the mill in the last 18 months with money owed from developers, my feeling in your position is go to a recommended solicitor in the morning to take advice first and see what they tell you


----------



## clzn (19 Sep 2010)

We cant afford to see a solicitor as we wouldnt have the money to pay them


----------



## wbbs (19 Sep 2010)

Try Citizens Advice, some offer short informal meetings once month or so with volunteer solicitor for advice. (free)


----------



## Time (19 Sep 2010)

Absolutely no use in this case as there is no defence. If the money is owed there is no defence and a judgement will be granted.


----------



## Time (19 Sep 2010)

clzn said:


> i am even more frightened now Time.  What do you mean by judgement mortgage.  There were 2 of us in this partnership - will both houses be affected.  Im scared of a sheriff coming to seize goods - what kind of things would he take



Who are they suing? Both of you in your own names? 



> Im scared of a sheriff coming to seize goods - what kind of things would he take


If you only have a house the sherriff will take nothing. He is only interested in any assets of a business that he can easily take and sell on easily for cash.


> What do you mean by judgement mortgage.


A judgement mortgage is a charge on any property you own. It prevents you from selling it unless you pay off the debt first. Again this depends on who exactly there are suing.


----------



## clzn (19 Sep 2010)

hello again Time.  Can you explain what judgement mortgage is and what would sherrif want to take


----------



## clzn (19 Sep 2010)

sorry for that last question.  i had it typed before i saw your answer. i tried to edit it but it disappeared.

they are suing paddy joe bloggs and jimmy joe bloggs t/a bloggs and bloggs


----------



## jsmk (20 Sep 2010)

if you are on socialwelfare you might be entiteld to legal aid?


----------



## Time (20 Sep 2010)

You are not entitled to legal aid for debt cases.


----------



## Time (20 Sep 2010)

clzn said:


> they are suing paddy joe bloggs and jimmy joe bloggs t/a bloggs and bloggs


They will take the same action against both of you as if you were being sued separately.


----------



## Bright (20 Sep 2010)

clzn, 

Contact FLAC (Free Legal Advice Centre) and make an appointment with your local office. They have offices all over the country (usually in community centres or parish centres)  *1890 350 250*

As the name suggests - the legal advice is free and the person advising (either a Solicitor or Barrister) will talk you through the court process and the implications for you and what you can expect on the day.

Good luck with it.

Hope this helps

Bright


----------



## Time (20 Sep 2010)

FLAC are unable to assist with debt cases. This is a serious problem for everyone.


----------



## Bright (20 Sep 2010)

Time said:


> FLAC are unable to assist with debt cases. This is a serious problem for everyone.


 
FLAC can most certainly give advice to clzn on what to expect when he goes to court and what his right are and also what he may expect in relation to judgement mortgages, etc, However as you rightly point out they will not be able to represent him in court, but they can explain fully the process and what he can expect in court on the day, which may put his mind at ease.

Here is FLAC's information on their website in relation to Debt advice, etc:-

*Credit & debt law:* In response to the growing need for legal information and advice on credit and debt issues, FLAC has become increasingly involved in this area of law. Acting as a legal resource, FLAC supports money advisors and members of the public and aims to provide useful information on rights and entitlements through research and publications such as A Means to An End? an in-depth report on attachment of earnings for non-payment of civil debt. FLAC has also appealed for the state to end imprisonment arising from civil debt. The organisation has long called for for the (MABS) to be put on a statutory footing and for proper monitoring and regulation of consumer credit and other financial services in Ireland. 
FLAC also seeks to keep the public informed of their legal rights in this area. Thus the organisation provides technical legal support in the area of credit and debt law to advisors from MABS and the Citizens Information Board as well as producing publications on issues such as Moneylending and the Law.


----------



## onq (20 Sep 2010)

clzn,

Firstly, despite what you say, there may still be avenues of approach you can take to get your money back.
You need to take legal advice to explore them and do not make the mistake of sending a heavy around to get your money.

There may also be cutbacks you can make and you are going to have to make them.
I'm not being cocky about this, I have gone through the mill myself in the past five months, and still going through it.

You cannot just deal with one debt if there are others.
You cannot just stand idly by and let debt defaulters who haven't paid you away with this crime.
So first things first, do up your monthy accounts and see what long-delayed new years good intentions you are still enjoying.


 Pints on Friday night
 Cigaretters
 The Gym
 Sky or NTL/UDP [or whatever they are now]
 Foreign holidays
 Gambling
These are all well known "essentials" and they can be done without or trimmed back to lower levels if you have not done either before consider doing so now.

10 fags a day at €8.50 for 20 equals €1551.25 a year.
There are two partners and I am presuming two spouses and do you all smoke or is it nearer 20 rather than ten?
If either you all smoke or its twenty rather than ten, the debt would be mostly cleared within a year.
Make wise choices, do what you can.

In the review of hte judgement, make your case showing your outgoings and incomings and suggest a rate even a nominal rate, at which you can pay things off - €20 a month.
Also argue your position is not through wilful negligent or criminal action on your part, it is the current economic climate, the lack of work and the lack of payments of debts owed that has resulted in this.
It may be useful if you have spoken to MABS, the money advice and budgeting service and gotten your house in order before then.
This will show the court you're not running away from the debt and are taking all possible steps to get your house in order.
MABS will help you budget your money and buying wisely helps cut expenses.
You could also ask informally for a haircut for the debt.

For example €180 a week for food and goodies for three - three survive well on €75 a week through wise buying and looking for bargains.
Little things like Dunnes Stores bread at €0.50 and milk at €1.49 help the Euros stretch a long way.

But don't just sit there or ask here.
The finances are yours to deal with - no one else can do this.
You have to make your own budget planner out and stick to it

This might sound like a little tough love, but it may halp get you into a stable position.
Showing the Courts you are trying to manage a difficult situation will tend to go in your favour.
And arriving in Court looking like someone sombody will want to hire on the spot might just help a bit.

"You don't get second chances to make firt impressions" - this is never more true than with a Judge of the Circuit Court.

"Fail, to prepare, prepare to fail."

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

ONQ.


----------

