# Nationwide UK - Definition of "Month"



## Gervan (1 Feb 2014)

I think one advantage Brendan, is the flexibility. If you could get 2.5% in KBC for a 12 month deposit, you wouldn't have access to your funds. This way there are various sums at different banks, different interest rates, different access rules. 
Also, for some of us €125 is not insignificant.

CiaranT, the rules you quote in the Best savings guide for Nationwide Regular saver seem too complicated.
You wrote: 





> A 'month' begins as at the date that you make your first deposit, each  subsequent monthly cycle then repeats in the same manner. For example,  if your first lodgement is on the 10th, then each monthly cycle is from  the 10th of each month to the 9th of the next month.


I made my first €1,000 lodgement on 15th July, the second on 2nd August. It wasn't rejected, so I think the "months" are indeed calendar.


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## llgon (1 Feb 2014)

I had same experience as Gervan, opening lodgement of 1000 on July 31st and made another on 12th August.  Worked as well on my wife's account.   That gives another piece of advice that you might consider adding CiaranT -open accounts for your spouse if you have one and do everything x2


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## Lightning (1 Feb 2014)

Gervan said:


> I made my first €1,000 lodgement on 15th July, the second on 2nd August. It wasn't rejected, so I think the "months" are indeed calendar.



The payment will not be rejected. The problem is the payment will not earn 4.00% until 15 August 2013. You will earn the 'call account' rate from 2 August 2013 to 15 August 2013. 

My point about NUK not following a calendar month is correct. I will add a note to say that the rule applies to the accrued interest calculation to earn the top rate on this account.


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## TomOC (2 Feb 2014)

Gervan said:


> CiaranT, the rules you quote in the Best savings guide for Nationwide Regular saver seem too complicated.
> You wrote:
> I made my first €1,000 lodgement on 15th July, the second on 2nd August. It wasn't rejected, so I think the "months" are indeed calendar.



The months are not calender months but what Nationwide UK class as the first month is unclear. 
I opened this account a few months back and queried with the bank a few times how the account worked.  It is very confusing but how I think it works is the second payment must be made within a month of the first.  So.......
Say you opened on the 15th July, the Second payment had to be made on/ before the 14th August, the third on/ before 14th September.  

(I had initially expected that based on the account opening above that I could not make another transfer till after 15th August, this is not correct.  However they said they were not penalising for 'missing' the second payment due to confusion, apart from that months payment was missed and only a total of 14000 could be paid into the account)


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## Lightning (2 Feb 2014)

TomOC said:


> The months are not calender months



Exactly. 



TomOC said:


> It is very confusing but how I think it works is the second payment must be made within a month of the first.  So.......
> Say you opened on the 15th July, the Second payment had to be made on/ before the 14th August, the third on/ before 14th September.



I am not saying you are wrong but there is nothing in the NUK T&C's that clearly states that different rules apply to the date period of the second lodgement.

I have sent NUK a few queries on their definition of a month and the rules for the second lodgement. 

One thing is certain, NUK need to be far more transparent on their definition of a month.


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## Gervan (3 Feb 2014)

This should maybe go in a separate thread about the Nationwide UK Regular Saver account.
I've just spent 15 minutes on the phone with a NUK customer services manager. Although the maturity date is 15 months after the start date, within that, they are accepting calendar month as an operating month. 
By above definitions of "month" in this thread I would have lodged €1250 in my third "month", and wanted to know if I was getting lower interest on the part over €1000, but I've been assured it isn't so. 
A lodgement over €1000 in the calendar month would not be rejected, but the customer would be given a call and offered the choice of having the overpayment returned, or getting the lower call account interest. 
Has anyone experienced that?
In the final month we have to be sure to lodge 100-1000 before the anniversary date.


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## Lightning (3 Feb 2014)

Why can NUK not make this really clear on their website?  

NUK have told me:



> The terms of the account state that you must not exceed a lodgement of €1,000* in any 30 day period*.
> 
> The 15 month term of the account began the day your first lodgement was received into the account.
> 
> *Therefore the monthly cycle does not run by calendar month*, rather from the 8th to the 8th of every month as your first lodgement was received on the 8th.



I have responded, asking NUK to please advise on the below points. 

(1) Do you really mean the 8th to the 7th?
(2) Why does your website state "month" multiple times rather than monthly cycle? The term month can easily confuse people as it is reasonable to think that "month" means calendar month. 
(3) Do special rules apply to the first monthly cycle, as I have read reports of this? i.e. If the first deposit is received on the 8th, Is it okay to wait until the 9th of the subsequent month before making the next deposit?
(4) Why do you say there is a "30 day period" when many months have 31 days. Do you really mean a monthly cycle rather than a 30 day cycle?


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## Gervan (3 Feb 2014)

Just when I thought I understood!!
I hope you can get definitive answers.

CiaranT, is the AIB regular saver also like this, with a "monthly cycle" rather than a month?


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## Lightning (3 Feb 2014)

AIB use calendar month for minimum and maximum lodgements. However, the lodgement has to be received between the 1st and 25th of each month.


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## TomOC (4 Feb 2014)

For clarification on my earlier mail, I went through this exact ordeal three month ago.  (2 or 3 phone calls and 2 emails) 
The second payment is to be made within one month of the first.  If the second payment is not made in this time you miss the 'second' payment.  They are treating the first payment to open the account as the end of that 'month' period and also the start.  

 eg First lodgement, today 4th Feb. (This with nationwide UK is treated as a short 'month', 1 day). The second payment can be made anytime between the 5th Feb and and 4th March). 3rd payment the 5th April to the 4th May.  

So to maximize on this account what you should do is add 1000 on first day. 
4th Feb 1000
5th Feb 1000
5th March 1000
5th April 1000

This is my understanding after repeated contact with Nationwide


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## Lightning (4 Feb 2014)

Spot on Tom, exactly what I was told too. 

I will add detail to the best buys. 

I hope NUK do the same on their website.


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## llgon (8 Feb 2014)

I have checked my lodgement dates to this account in light of the informatiom I have gotten from this thread. I have made lodgements every calendar month since July. However on one occasion (December) it was outside the monthly cycle as described by Tom and CiaranT.  Does this mean that I will receive a call rate of interest on the entire deposit for the entire term? Will I only be advised of this by NationwideUK at the end of the term?  Is this the motivation behind the ridiculous and complicated rules? I will be phoning them next week to find out.


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## TomOC (9 Feb 2014)

Check with them.  They do have very complicated rules but definitely do not enforce them for the missed second payment.  I missed the second payment (due to the confusing rules) and they said it would not affect the interest rate on the account just that I would only be able to make 14 rather than 15 payments.  
However if you were late paying the 'December' payment does that mean you paid more than than the max in the January payment window?  That could be more of an issue


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## MugsGame (13 Apr 2014)

> *A 'month' does not correspond to a full calendar month. There are important points of note with this regarding (1) the first lodgement, (2) second lodgement and (3) then subsequent lodgements which is best explained by an example. (1) If the first lodgement is made on 4 February (Nationwide UK treated as a short 'month', 1 day), (2) the second lodgement can be made anytime between 5 February and 4 March, (3) The third lodgement anytime between 5 March and 4 April. Each subsequent monthly cycle then repeats in the same manner.



Based on my own experience, I believe the above note in the Best Buys regarding the NWUK Regular Saver is wrong (or confusing, as I have interpreted it in a way contrary to the way NWUK operate the a/c.).

I opened a NWUK regular saver a/c on 2nd Apr, made an opening lodgement of €1000 on 7th April, and a further lodgement of €1000 on 8th April. On the 9th April my second lodgement was transferred to a new call account earning only 0.5%. Action is required on my part to access the funds in the call a/c, they will not be automatically moved over in a month. 

I received a statement for both my regular saver a/c and the new call a/c showing the transfer, and a letter which states:



> The terms and conditions of our Regular Saver account states that lodgements to a maximum of €1,000 per month are permitted. As you have lodged in excess of this amount during one month, the excess funds have been placed in a Regular Saver Call Account ... Please note that because the start date of your account was 7th April 2014, you are permitted to lodge between €100 and €1000 from the 7th to the 7th of each month.



My interpretation of this is that my second lodgement should not have been made until 8th May, and that I can continue with my regular payments then.


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## Lightning (13 Apr 2014)

MugsGame said:


> Based on my own experience, I believe the above note in the Best Buys *regarding the NWUK Regular Saver is wrong *(or confusing, as I have interpreted it in a way contrary to the way NWUK operate the a/c.).
> 
> *I opened a KBC regular saver a/c* on 2nd Apr, made an opening lodgement of €1000 on 7th April, and a further lodgement of €1000 on 8th April. On the 9th April my second lodgement was transferred to a new call account earning only 0.5%.



The rules for a KBC regular saver account obviously do not apply to a NUK account. 

Did you open a KBC regular saver account as you stated above or did you open a NUK account?


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## MugsGame (13 Apr 2014)

Sorry, have corrected my post to say NWUK in all places. My problem experience relates to NWUK (I have just processed letters from both KBC and NWUK regarding regular savers I opened with both this month, hence the slip.).

If anyone has operated an NWUK Regular Saver a/c in the way described in the Best Buys, and not had a Call a/c opened, please let us know.


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## Lightning (13 Apr 2014)

No worries. 



MugsGame said:


> Based on my own experience, I believe the above note in the Best Buys regarding the NWUK Regular Saver is wrong (or confusing, as I have interpreted it in a way contrary to the way NWUK operate the a/c.).



Thanks for the feedback. 

Confusing? Yes because NUK have confusing rules around the definition of a month. 

Wrong? NUK T&C's do not properly cover this point nor have they taken feedback on board with regard to a lack of clarity on this point. Hence, the definition was based on correspondence here. 

I will simply edit the rules, for a 'month', for NUK, in the best buys, with a link to this thread.


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## MugsGame (13 Apr 2014)

Agreed the NWUK T&Cs don't clearly cover this point. I read them a few times, but decided your note in the Best Buys was probably correct.

However, skimming the various posts on this, I don't believe anyone has posted to confirm that a second payment made within 30 days of the first was accepted. The only posts I can find are from people who are relaying their understanding of what NWUK staff have told them. 

Thanks for you hard work keeping the best buys up to date!


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## Lightning (13 Apr 2014)

Thanks. Point taken that the definition of the first month should be excluded from the best buys, I have edited the best buys.


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## llgon (13 Apr 2014)

MugsGame said:


> However, skimming the various posts on this, I don't believe anyone has posted to confirm that a second payment made within 30 days of the first was accepted.



See first two posts in the thread.  I rang NUK after this thread appeared. They confirmed what other posters had said regarding lodgements and that all my lodgements were in order. Looks like they might have changed rules for newer accounts.


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## MugsGame (14 Apr 2014)

Thanks. Although your second lodgement was within 30 days of the first, it was still in the next calendar month, so that may have made a difference.

I rang them today and they confirmed that my second lodgement should not be made until the 7th May.


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## MBags (16 Dec 2014)

I'm looking in to this account now and I am wondering if this has been cleared up.  It appears from the poster above that if you lodge the max of 1k when opening the account, then you must wait 30 days before the second deposit.


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## Lightning (17 Dec 2014)

MBags said:


> I'm looking in to this account now and I am wondering if this has been cleared up.  It appears from the poster above that if you lodge the max of 1k when opening the account, then you must wait 30 days before the second deposit.



That appears to be the case. There has been so much confusion about this point I suggest you confirm that your understanding is correct with Nationwide UK (Ireland).


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## pudds (26 Jan 2015)

I got this message from NW today.



> As you have stated, your first payment in to your account will be on the 27th January 2015. Assuming you are lodging the maximum 1k each month to your account then your next months due lodgement date is the 27th February 2015. Lodgements should continue in to your account on the 27th of each month for the full 15 month fixed regular saver term.


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## pudds (28 Jan 2015)

....


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## TomOC (30 Jan 2015)

This is the most complicated savings account I have ever seen.  From the reply you got I do not know are you meant to lodge the 2nd payment any day before 27th Feb or when.  It looks like rules may have changed on this account a while ago.  Its best to ring them up I think.  This account was very unclear from the start.


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## Gervan (30 Jan 2015)

I had two of these accounts on the go (self & husband) which matured late last year with exactly the amount of interest I expected. I had not stuck to any rigid schedule. 
I made a phonecall at one point and was told as long as there was one deposit a calendar month that would be fine. As it was. I don't think you have to stress about the definition of a month.


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## Lightning (30 Jan 2015)

Gervan said:


> as there was one deposit a calendar month that would be fine



Which contradicts what they have told others, some people were told that it must be on a fixed date and some others that there is 30 day windows for each payment and some others told other things.

In a nutshell, I don't think Nationwide UK (Ireland) stick to any fixed rules and, as you indicated, they are reasonably flexible when calculating your eligibility to the interest.


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## pudds (30 Jan 2015)

TomOC said:


> Its best to ring them up I think.



I prefer to pm them and get it in writing, you could be told anything over the phone.
Shame they cant put it up on their front page along with their sales pitch and avoid all this confusion.


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