# Poppies/How to commemorate war dead?



## Decani (11 Nov 2006)

Where can you buy poppies in Dublin for Armistice Day?


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## lorna (11 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

try your local church of ireland.


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## ClubMan (11 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

Or try the [broken link removed] who should be able to help.


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## Thirsty (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



lorna said:


> try your local church of ireland.


why?


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## MugsGame (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



> try your local church of ireland.


With a name like Decani I'm sure they already have!

MugsGame (Cantoris)


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## Decani (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*


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## Amygdala (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

Having had a great grandfather and grandfather both of whom served as officers in WW 1 and WW 2 as many Irishmen did, I find sad that we do recognise their contribution here in the Republic.


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## GeneralZod (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

The recognition levels are going up though. As well as Islandbridge there's the Island of Ireland Peace Park in Messines, Flanders, opened in 1998 by the President of Ireland, Queen Elizabeth II of the UK and the King of Belgium.

My grandfather was in the Royal Field Artillery (WWI).


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## rabbit (13 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



Amygdala said:


> Having had a great grandfather and grandfather both of whom served as officers in WW 1 and WW 2 as many Irishmen did, I find sad that we do recognise their contribution here in the Republic.


 
I agree with you.  I know a few people, old men now but really decent men, who volunteered and served in WW2, like 50,000 other people from south of the border in that era.   They never talk about their experiences.  Many of their comrades gave their tomorrows so we can have our todays, and live in a Europe free from Nazism.


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## daveirl (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



rabbit said:


> I agree with you.  I know a few people, old men now but really decent men, who volunteered and served in WW2, like 50,000 other people from south of the border in that era.   They never talk about their experiences.  Many of their comrades gave their tomorrows so we can have our todays, and live in a Europe free from Nazism.


Agreed, I'd love to celebrate their sacrifice, but I have absolutely no interest in remembering British soldiers sent to kill Zulus etc, and who terrorised my grandparents during the war of Independence.


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## Binomial (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

What is the best way to commemorate Irish Soldiers who faught and died in the *United States* Armed Services in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, up to and including current conflicts?

BiN


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## Rovers1901 (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

There's official Government recognition of the sacrifice of Irishmen and woman by their presence at the commemoration in Islandbridge and the memorial service in St Patrick's. If you personally want to commemorate their sacrifice, why not attend either?

Personally I would never wear a poppy nor do i like seeing people on the streets of Dublin wearing them, but it's a free world so let them off. 

There's never going to be massive public commemoration of Irishmen fighting in WW1 or WW2 in the south because quite simply their deaths didn't achieve independence and no amount of revisionist history can change that......


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## NorfBank (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*

Their deaths didn't achieve independence for Ireland so there won't be massive public recognition - what an insular view.

Was it not more important that they helped defeat the march of Nazism?


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## Rovers1901 (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



NorfBank said:


> Their deaths didn't achieve independence for Ireland so there won't be massive public recognition - what an insular view.
> 
> Was it not more important that they helped defeat the march of Nazism?


 

And as above their deaths and contribution are recognised by the State. The orginal post and subsequent ones were about getting their hands on poppies and how to commemorate the occassion. The occassion is commemorated and poppies are available to buy.

Does Sweden have much public commemoration of WW1 and WW2?Anyone know?


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## car (14 Nov 2006)

> Their deaths didn't achieve independence for Ireland so there won't be massive public recognition - what an insular view.
> 
> Was it not more important that they helped defeat the march of Nazism?


WWI was not about nazism.  It was about money.   vincenzo wrote a piece last sunday about it, worth a [broken link removed].


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## propertyprof (14 Nov 2006)

car said:


> WWI was not about nazism. It was about money. vincenzo wrote a piece last sunday about it, worth a [broken link removed].


 
I actually cant believe this thread - are some of you serious??

The poppy commemorates those who have fought in all british wars (not just WW1 and WW2) - therefore you are commemorating the Para that were in Derry in 1972 etc. Some of you need to educate yourselves on what the poppy stands for before coming out what that kind of stuff!!!


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## propertyprof (14 Nov 2006)

*Re: Poppies*



daveirl said:


> Agreed, I'd love to celebrate their sacrifice, but I have absolutely no interest in remembering British soldiers sent to kill Zulus etc, and who terrorised my grandparents during the war of Independence.


 
well said - while we have all been making money recently we also seem to have forgotten our history!


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## Thirsty (14 Nov 2006)

"How to commemorate war dead", 

Support your community, do at least one volunteer job, raise your children to respect the society you live in, support education, live a full, decent life, always use your vote...that's how you will best remember those who died.  

And please let's not forget that if Hitler had won WWII, we would be living in a very different world right now...


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## Seagull (14 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> The poppy commemorates those who have fought in all british wars (not just WW1 and WW2) - therefore you are commemorating the Para that were in Derry in 1972 etc. Some of you need to educate yourselves on what the poppy stands for before coming out what that kind of stuff!!!


The poppy started as a symbol of remembrance after WW1, due to the poppies flowering around the battle fields.


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## car (14 Nov 2006)

> I actually cant believe this thread - are some of you serious??
> 
> The poppy commemorates those who have fought in all british wars (not just WW1 and WW2) - therefore you are commemorating the Para that were in Derry in 1972 etc. Some of you need to educate yourselves on what the poppy stands for before coming out what that kind of stuff!!!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day

If you were referring to my post about the origins of WWI, the post was not meant to detract from the overall meaning of rememberance day and the use of the poppy worldwide as a symbol for the last 80 years for those who died in ALL wars (not just british).

As posted above, the poppy was initially used as a rememberance for WWI.  I felt it important to note WWI (and consequently WWII) stemmed from money and power needs rather then Nazi idealogies to create an Arian race.


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## rabbit (14 Nov 2006)

Kildrought said:


> And please let's not forget that if Hitler had won WWII, we would be living in a very different world right now...


 
Well said.  We should be grateful to the millions of people, including the 50,000 Irish people from south of the border who volunteered and served in British forces in WW2 , who fought Nazism.   Some brave Irish people also made the ultimate sacrifice in the far east.  Had the Axis powers won it would be a different world we live in.


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## contemporary (15 Nov 2006)

I have talked to two english people over here who were spit on because they wore a poppy, the mentality of some people...


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## Seagull (15 Nov 2006)

It's not only the British who wear poppies to commemorate the war dead.


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## BillK (15 Nov 2006)

My Grandfather was with the Dubs at Gallipoli in the first WW; my Father and my Uncle, both born and bred in Dublin, were in the British Army during WWII.

I always wear a poppy at this time of year.


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## bogwarrior (15 Nov 2006)

Yorky said:


> Hiding behind a hedge waiting to ambush, planting bombs and then detonating from a safe distance via remote control and planting bombs in bins in town centres does not constitiute military history, by the way.



Yes, but killing civilians via computer controlled rockets does (not saying the British do this, but this is what happens in war).  Yes, the sacrifice of men and women should be acknowledged but not always the cause.  

I don't think anyone was defending the provos in this thread.  
Not wanting to wear a poppy doesn't make one a militant republican.  Having a contrary opinion on certain issues regarding the British Army in Northern Ireland doesn't make one a republican either.


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## edo (15 Nov 2006)

BillK said:


> My Grandfather was with the Dubs at Gallipoli in the first WW; my Father and my Uncle, both born and bred in Dublin, were in the British Army during WWII.
> 
> I always wear a poppy at this time of year.



Hear Hear - I've various relatives buried in war cemeteries in Belguim, Normandy and Singapore from both WWI and WWII , both in British Army and the US army.

the poppy commemorates the simple soldier who just followed orders and showed immense and in these days , unimaginable courage and bravery.

The first poppies were sold to help the unemployed soldiers who had returned from world war I and were then sleeping homeless in the Streets of London , many badly physically and mental scarred for life.

All and well here in holier than thou Ireland as we are way too self righteous and moral to get our hands dirty in such things as Fighting for our principles - we'd much rather have a demonstration down the middle of connell street on Saturday - that'll put the fear of God into karadic, mladic and Osama Bin Laden all right - We never had to worry about the Nazi threat , the British kept them at bay and us and our economy alive with Scarce resources they didn't have to spare - all over the principle of partition - not Devalera's finest hour

.


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## propertyprof (15 Nov 2006)

bogwarrior said:


> Yes, but killing civilians via computer controlled rockets does (not saying the British do this, but this is what happens in war). Yes, the sacrifice of men and women should be acknowledged but not always the cause.
> 
> I don't think anyone was defending the provos in this thread.
> Not wanting to wear a poppy doesn't make one a militant republican. Having a contrary opinion on certain issues regarding the British Army in Northern Ireland doesn't make one a republican either.


 
I am defending the provos on this thread actually!

If the IRA have to stoop to any tactics then you FORCE, yes force the Britis to 1. Recognise Irish self determination the I support that. I know that my not be a popular view on a happy little middle class forum like this but it is my view and the view of many.

As for poppies - it actually makes my sick to see Irish people wearing them - these are the same people that would lok down their nose at you for wearing a lily.

This is what the poppy commemorates!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

[broken link removed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Clegg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritsar_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Iraqi_beating_by_British_soldiers_video

I could go on, and on, and on, and on - and on!!!

Good to see Yorky show his true colour and defend Para 1 and 2 in Derry for murdering childern and shooting protesters in the back!

If you think that the poppy symbolises those honourable mecenaries and hirlings that "fought" for the brits during WW2 (like my uncle) then you have swallowed and line and need to do a reality check and find out what the poppy is really all about AND where the money go also!


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## propertyprof (15 Nov 2006)

edo said:


> We never had to worry about the Nazi threat , the British kept them at bay and us and our economy alive with Scarce resources they didn't have to spare
> 
> .


 
Oh I forgot the Brits won the war all on their own - my thanks to those jolly good chaps, hurrah!!! - you really are deluded, have you been watching too many movies??

next we will have the classic - _"if the britsh hadnt defeated the germans then we would all now be speaking a foriegn language!!"_ 

Only one thing wrong with that statement however, the Brits systemically attempted to destroy our language long before the germans started invading Poland.

more later is this jackeen flag waving continues!


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## rabbit (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> I am defending the provos on this thread actually!


 
Shame on you. Defending the people who butchered men , women and children. Still, I suppose it takes all types. There are links with the Nazis of course ...Sean Russell of the IRA died on active service on a German u-boat during the war, and Sinn Fein commemorated him with a statue a few years ago. They remain the only party in Europe to have had links with the Nazis. Thank God the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered and served with British forces over the decades done us proud, and helped guarantee our freedom from the Nazis and their s.f. bedfellows.

P.S. Wikipedia is edited by brainwashed republicans so much time and time again most reasonably intelligent people know it is so far from being independent that is is a farce, and the kind of drivel not even worth looking at.


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## rabbit (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> Oh I forgot the Brits won the war all on their own


 
Nobody claimed that. People from many dozens of countries around the world proudly fought with UK forces, which stood up to Hitler in 1939. We all know the part Russia and the US, as well as many other countries, played in fighting the axis powers.  I know a brave Irishman who served in the British merchant navy bringing vital war supplies to Russia, in the arctic convoys, in dreadful and v. dangerous conditions.  Our government did not do very much to stand up to threats to world peace like Nazism, Communism or the invasion of Kuwait by the 4th largest army in the world at the time. Its all too easy for people like propertyprof to snipe from the sidelines, having beneffited from sheltering under someone elses umbrella.


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## Seagull (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> If you think that the poppy symbolises those honourable mecenaries and hirlings that "fought" for the brits during WW2 (like my uncle) then you have swallowed and line and need to do a reality check and find out what the poppy is really all about AND where the money go also!


So all the Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Canadians, Indians, Burmese, and other nations that were involved in the wars and wear the poppy are mercenaries or hirelings. Bear in mind that there are now a significant number of immigrants in this country who respect the poppy, and are not British.

As has already been pointed out, Wikipedia is open to editing by anyone, and as such is not to be trusted when it comes to emotive issues.


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## bogwarrior (16 Nov 2006)

edo said:


> the poppy commemorates the simple soldier who just followed orders and showed immense and in these days , unimaginable courage and bravery.



Yes, as a matter of interest though,  do the Germans commemorate their war fallen of both wars?  i'd imagine a lot of germans were just following orders too.  Is it possible to honour the rank and file WW2 German soldier while discounting the evil ideology they fought for?
Koizumi in Japan stirred up a lot of controversy went he went to the Yaskuni (spelling?) shrine to honour the Japanese dead.  I believe there are convicted war criminals buried there, but it also commerates the ordinary soldiers.  Is their (personal) sacrifice worth less than a US or British casualty of war?



edo said:


> All and well here in holier than thou Ireland as we are way too self righteous and moral to get our hands dirty in such things as Fighting for our principles - we'd much rather have a demonstration down the middle of connell street on Saturday - that'll put the fear of God into karadic, mladic and Osama Bin Laden all right



the rest of the world doesn't seem to be too anxious to do anything about Karadic and Mladic either.  What should we do, send our lads into the Baklans to flush them out? 
We may not be an active member of the 'Coalition of the Willing' but we do proivide facilities in Shannon to assist the American government in their war.  
We also have over 1,000 soldiers deployed in the former Yugoslavia.




edo said:


> We never had to worry about the Nazi threat , the British kept them at bay and us and our economy alive with Scarce resources they didn't have to spare - all over the principle of partition - not Devalera's finest hour.



I agree.


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## Guest127 (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof:  dont know what kind of independent republic you aspire to. hopefully not one that supports the omagh bombing but it sounds awfully like it.


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## propertyprof (16 Nov 2006)

cuchulainn said:


> propertyprof: dont know what kind of independent republic you aspire to. hopefully not one that supports the omagh bombing but it sounds awfully like it.


 
What an idiotic thing to say, I would never support the intentional mass murder of innocent civilians - however, I am sure if "it was the Brits wot done it" then Yorky would say that warnings were given and the police lead the civilians into the area were the bomb was, especially as he seems happy that the paras are absolved of any blame for Bloody Sunday as he state that they did not shoot first - you are a disgrace and if I met you face to face sir I would certainly not be happy to met you - is your name Widgery by any chance?. I am sure the supporters of the British army on this forum would rejoice in the mass murder of the citizens of Dresden! now there is what your proud saviour of civilisation did during WW2.

How easily eaten bread is soon forgotten! Rabbit you are a disgrace and it is people like you who were the ones who spat on the heroes on 1916 - but shhhhh! its not OK to remember those brave soldiers who actually did selflessly sacrificed their lives (no need for conscription there!) because they are Irish - maybe their uniforms wernt smart enough for you eh??.

I am actually going to stop now because my face is red with rage - you disgust me you brainwashed anglophiles!


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## edo (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> What an idiotic thing to say, I would never support the intentional mass murder of innocent civilians - however, I am sure if "it was the Brits wot done it" then Yorky would say that warnings were given and the police lead the civilians into the area were the bomb was, especially as he seems happy that the paras are absolved of any blame for Bloody Sunday as he state that they did not shoot first - you are a disgrace and if I met you face to face sir I would certainly not be happy to met you - is your name Widgery by any chance?. I am sure the supporters of the British army on this forum would rejoice in the mass murder of the citizens of Dresden! now there is what your proud saviour of civilisation did during WW2.
> 
> How easily eaten bread is soon forgotten! Rabbit you are a disgrace and it is people like you who were the ones who spat on the heroes on 1916 - but shhhhh! its not OK to remember those brave soldiers who actually did selflessly sacrificed their lives (no need for conscription there!) because they are Irish - maybe their uniforms wernt smart enough for you eh??.
> 
> I am actually going to stop now because my face is red with rage - you disgust me you brainwashed anglophiles!



Absolutely Classic Property prof !- If you can't come back with some degree of reasoned debate - then a good old tunnel visioned rant will have to do instead.

Nobody on this thread brought up 1916 before and I dare say nobody here would have questioned the bravery of those who participated in it. I think you are completely missing the whole point of the thread here - That one side of our history until recently was completely airbrushed away and I would say it affects nearly every family in the country - 2 of my great grand uncles died on the Western Front in 1915-1916 and other brother , my great grandfather spent 1 and 1/2 years there , came home and joined the IRA and was arrested and sent to Frongoch in Wales for 2 years after 1916 for being part of the 1916 rising. Im sure many other posters can tell in a similar story , but for so long it was the heroes of 1916 and the war of independence who were lionised ,yet those who went to WWI , volunteered to win home-rule for Ireland were written out of the story- but as Hitler famously said - its the victors who write the history. 

But if you ever think there will ever be a more than a snowballs chance in hell of a United Ireland - then there will have to be recognition that there is more than one side to every story and more than one tradition on this Island and that being Irish is far more than being a knee-jerk anglophobe - something the more extreme elements of Irish Nationalism would be well advised to pay more than lip service to if they have aspirations to a Unified Ireland this side of next millennium.


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## BillK (16 Nov 2006)

July/August 1915   Suvla Bay

5th & 6th Battalions Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers
5th & 6th Battalions Royal Irish Fusiliers
6th & 7th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers
7th Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers

A battalion of infantry at that time consisted of approximately 1000 officers and men, so approximately 7000 Irishmen were fighting on the Gallipoli Peninsula. Many of these men lost their lives and it is for them and their successors during WWII that I and many like me wear a poppy in remembrance at this time of year.


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## Marion (16 Nov 2006)

I've got uncles who participated in both wars. One who died during WW1.  He and many other UCD students joined up when they finished college. He died in the war.  I have another uncle who was a member or the medical corps in WW2 - he survived the war.

Btw, I also have a gran aunt who was shot and killed by the Black and Tans because she opened a door of her business premises for a neighbouring child during curfew.

Marion


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## Guest127 (16 Nov 2006)

propertyprof:



propertyprof said:


> I am defending the provos on this thread actually!
> 
> If the IRA have to stoop to any tactics then ...........
> 
> ...


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## propertyprof (16 Nov 2006)

right I am going to tone it down a little cos I am just banging my head against a brick wall and just say this - rightly or wrongly remember you family members who died fighting for the British army in WW1 and WW2 and I will say is that you are wearing the wrong symbol for that purpose and the poppy commemorates all British solider in all British wars including those that were sent ot Ireland to attempt to crush the Irish.


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## rabbit (17 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> How easily eaten bread is soon forgotten! Rabbit you are a disgrace


 
No I am not a disgrace, far from it.    You are correct that eaten bread is soon forgotten...you do not remember and honour the millions of brave people who stood up to Germany in two world wars, to the invading Japanese of WW2, to the communist threat in the cold war, and numerous other wars.   But for them you would not enjoy life as you do today.   

People like you, and terrorists elected by nobody who maimed and killed, and people like the IRA man Sean Russell who collaborated with the Nazis, may think people like me are a disgrace, but so be it.   Time has proved us right.


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## Seagull (17 Nov 2006)

propertyprof said:


> the poppy commemorates all British solider in all British wars including those that were sent ot Ireland to attempt to crush the Irish.


As I've already pointed out, the poppy does not only represent British war dead.


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## Lumpsum (17 Nov 2006)

Rearing a puppy is not as divisive as wearing a poppy.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=318842&posted=1#post318842


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## rabbit (18 Nov 2006)

Its not divisive to most people around the world.  Lets face it, only the bigots could find it objectionable that other people may remember millions of war dead.   What opinion do the people who find it divisive and objectionable have on the Enniskillen Remberbrance day bombing ?   Even the russians - then the cold war adversaries of the British - strongly condemned that atrocity.   No divisiveness from them on poppies.


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## propertyprof (18 Nov 2006)

rabbit said:


> Its not divisive to most people around the world. Lets face it, only the bigots could find it objectionable that other people may remember millions of war dead. What opinion do the people who find it divisive and objectionable have on the Enniskillen Remberbrance day bombing ? Even the russians - then the cold war adversaries of the British - strongly condemned that atrocity. No divisiveness from them on poppies.


 
Selective history remebering is a skill which you hold in abundance.

Actually I think that you will find that most people in Ireland find the wearing of a poppy objectionable - and rightly so!

You might think the poppy represents somrthing else but actually you are wrong and havent a clue 1. what it actually stands for and 2. where the money goes.


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## propertyprof (19 Nov 2006)

Yorky said:


> It goes to help war veterans and their families and is distributed through the Royal British Legion. These people are often sidelined by the government so it is hugely beneficial to show them that people do actually care and are grateful for the sacrifice they made.
> 
> Unfortunately, unlike the republican "veterans" AKA spineless murderers , they don't have the option of lucrative incomes from criminality, politics and taxpayer funded "peace process" quangos.


 
Veterans of what Yorky??

Oh yeah the republican volunteers are so spineless that they give there lives for a noble cause with a nice little salary, army house, health scheme and a pension!!!

Also how was the republican cause supposed to fund their arming without smuggling etc - its nice and easy for the UVF/UDA and LVF they have the British Army and the British taxpayer to back them!!
Edited by Marion: intemperate personal attack removed. Please abide by the . How can anyone stand by the british army's involvement in Bloody Sunday - its the British army who are the murders so dont try and take the moral high ground - Loughall, Gibraltar, Derry, Lee Clegg - you disgust me


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## Guest127 (20 Nov 2006)

I said I wouldn't post again on this topic but reluctantly I have decided to. This topic started as a wearing poppy  debate and all I know is that there are too many graveyards in France and Germany ( and other places) filled with young Irish, British, American, Canadian, French etc etc ( on the allied side alone) filled with young citizens of the above countries who never again saw their parents,  wives, children, grandchildren, colour tv's, computers, man in space etc, so that me, and thousands like me, including propertyprof ( whether he likes it or not) could live in a free world. I agree with profertyprof on excesses by the brits, who doesn't? but there's the other side too - Gerry McCabe springs to mind fairly easily.


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## Purple (20 Nov 2006)

I always think of how Tom Creen, one of the greatest polar explorers who ever lived, has been ignored by Irish history because he was in the British Navy. I think that it is a shame that we have not properly commemorated the tens of thousands of Irish men that gave their lives in two world wars. Some of them went to fight for freedom, some of them went to fight so that their families could eat; it doesn't really matter why. What matters is that we have shamefully ignored them for so long.
Is the Poppy the right symbol to use? I don't know. I agree that it also symbolises those British solders that were sent to pacify the Irish. We should remember that many of the solders sent by the crown to crack heads in Africa and India were Irish and we were happy to do it…one third of Nelsons navy at the battle of Trafalgar were Irish. 

We are certainly not in a position to occupy the moral high ground when talking about the British armed forces. I think our moral abdication at least balances the scales.

The issue is whether the poppy is an appropriate symbol to commemorate Irish war dead. Since many Irish man died in the American armed forces in the Second World War (and some in the first), some died in the Spanish civil war, some died on both sides of the Napoleonic wars and many died fighting the English in 1798 and before, I think that we should have our own symbol.
That doesn’t mean that we should not respect the wearing of the poppy and the sacrifice of the vast majority of those it remembers.


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## daveirl (21 Nov 2006)

I'm in neither camp here, I'm not a Republican in the Sinn Fein sense of the word but I'm certainly not like Yorky either. One question Yorky, do you not think it's a bit absurd to suggest that the Provo's actions were completely outrageous and without cause and then in the same post suggest that poor old Lee Clegg was just a little upset because he was the target of the Provos? You're making out as if the Nationalist community had no reason whatsoever to mistrust British security forces.

Also you'd want to get off that high moral ground, you have no place on it when you think it'd be funny to see people getting killed on YouTube. Do you think American security forces having their heads chopped off while alive in Iraq is funny too, do you?


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## propertyprof (21 Nov 2006)

Yorky said:


> Not do it in the first place and be governed by the legitimate Irish army and the rule of law.
> 
> 
> They are funded the same way as the IRA: criminality. But those thugs are not as clever as the republican ones and don't have a global white collar business empire or other terrorists groups (such as Cocaine producing thugs in Columbia) to buy into their terrorising skills base.
> ...


 
now we see the true colours! no further comment needed!


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## ludermor (21 Nov 2006)

I have to say i disagreed with a lot of what Propertyprof had to say on this thread but Yorkys last comments sickened me.


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## rabbit (21 Nov 2006)

ludermor said:


> I have to say i disagreed with a lot of what Propertyprof had to say on this thread but Yorkys last comments sickened me.


 
What Yorky says is the truth and the truth is sure to sometimes educate those who have been indoctrinated with republican propoganda over the years.


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