# Cost of Patio



## Rico (21 Jan 2008)

We are putting down 37 sq metres of patio slabs, possibly indian sandstone. Got a quote for €900 for labour to include preparation, pointing,etc. Wondering if this was reasonable, approx three days work. Appreciate any views. Thanks.


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## Simeon (21 Jan 2008)

A lot of factors come into play ...... how much cutting....... how much digging out ...... just a fall one way or several ways ...... access etc. Three days for two men?  Putting in hardcore, vibrating it, a little concrete, semi-dry sand and cement, (Indian sandstone .... slabs will be of different thicknesses. So each slab will have a different bed). It's got to be done right - otherwise you get ponding, rocking etc. And finally the pointing. Good luck.


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## Scaper (21 Jan 2008)

About 30% of going rate, and would seem too good to be true, and as they say, if it is, it probably isn't. 

Reminds me of rogue traders and price slashing, people fall for it all the time, no matter how much advice is provided.


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## navi5ie (22 Jan 2008)

As a landscaper myself I woul advise against such a low quote. Wholesale cost price of indian sanstone is €26/square meter + V.A.T. @21%, giving a cost of the slab excluding hardcore, sand and cement, waste disposal, equipment and labour of €1164. Also be careful of the type of pointing used as Indian Sandstone is very porous and the use of sand and cement as pointing is not recomended. A product called "Rompox" is an epoxy resin and is the only pointing I have used in the past few years.


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## nt00deep (22 Jan 2008)

but the question related to labour costs


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## Scaper (22 Jan 2008)

navi5ie said:


> As a landscaper myself I woul advise against such a low quote. Wholesale cost price of indian sanstone is €26/square meter + V.A.T. @21%, giving a cost of the slab excluding hardcore, sand and cement, waste disposal, equipment and labour of €1164. Also be careful of the type of pointing used as Indian Sandstone is very porous and the use of sand and cement as pointing is not recomended. A product called "Rompox" is an epoxy resin and is the only pointing I have used in the past few years.


 
You must have very low pay rates and overheads if your labour is approx € 31/Sq m. The prevailing rate (charge out) for general labour within landscaping industry would start for example with maintenance/clearance @ € 30.00 - € 35.00/hr. Not much room in your rates for margin.

Actual pay rates for fitting paving would be higher. These rates would be typical of professional landscaping cos with full professional indemnity+employer insurances, tax compliant etc etc. 

We've been pointing sandstone and other natural stone paving for years with sand and cement, and we've never had a pointing problem. That said we work and finish to highest industry standards. Rompox and other similar products are popular with somer because they are easy to apply albeit during dry conditions only but are a much more expensive way of pointing. Sand cement pointing is much more durable finish and especially for maintenance of pave areas when cleaning with power washers might be required etc. 

Leaving aside area, site characteristics, paving sizes etc etc I've seen examples of sandstone paving installed for < € 30/Sqm or less and it looks it.

Like everything design, execution and finish are key and you ultimately get what you pay for.


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## navi5ie (23 Jan 2008)

My apologies I misread the question.
The price I quoted was the wholesale cost of Indian sandstone only!
Labour as "scaper" states can vary a lot from contractor to contractor. Factors which come into play can depend on site conditions and most contractors that I know will not give you a price per square meter for laying. On the subject of "Rompox" and similar products, they are more suitable than sand and cement for pointing due to ease of installation, they never stain the paving, they can be used in both wet and dry conditions and they are not affected by power washing. Most are in fact an epoxy resin which sets harder than the stone itself. The increased cost of such a product should be balanced against the labour time used in installing sand and cement and the potential damage to the paving surface by staining of the cement.


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## Scaper (23 Jan 2008)

navi5ie said:


> My apologies I misread the question.
> The price I quoted was the wholesale cost of Indian sandstone only!
> Labour as "scaper" states can vary a lot from contractor to contractor. Factors which come into play can depend on site conditions and most contractors that I know will not give you a price per square meter for laying. On the subject of "Rompox" and similar products, they are more suitable than sand and cement for pointing due to ease of installation, they never stain the paving, they can be used in both wet and dry conditions and they are not affected by power washing. Most are in fact an epoxy resin which sets harder than the stone itself. The increased cost of such a product should be balanced against the labour time used in installing sand and cement and the potential damage to the paving surface by staining of the cement.


 
Pointing with sand and cement is like painting windows, a competent painter wouldn't paint the glass, similarly a competent paver wouldn't stain the paving. But not everyone is competent.


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## mercman (23 Jan 2008)

Navi5ie is correct about the pointing - better off using the Rompox. Basically if you have a very cold winter and then power wash it could crack the pointing, break it and then causing the slabs to be loosened, allowing moss and weeds to grow etc. etc.


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## mathepac (23 Jan 2008)

Rico said:


> We are putting down 37 sq metres of patio slabs, possibly indian sandstone. Got a quote for €900 for labour to include preparation, pointing,etc. Wondering if this was reasonable, approx three days work. Appreciate any views. Thanks.



As has already been pointed out, that sounds incredibly low, even if you supply all the materials.

Based on personal experience, could I suggest that you have whoever you choose to do the work to go into detail in their quotation for the following:

1) Drainage - believe me rain or water won't just "run away"

2) Geotex - you will need a vegetation proof underlay to ensure weeds and vegetation won't grow  through the pointing or split the  paving

3) Stability padding (a thick honey-combed poly-felt that goes under the hardcore filling / blinding)  and helps to prevent sub-soil  movement, usually not too big a problem on "mature" sites, but it depends on sub-soil structure (sandy, clayey, etc.)

4) Disposal of spoil - you will probably have 8 to 15 M3 of turf and top-soil to get rid of. If you can reuse it yourself, great, if not be sure whoever you get has appropriate arrangements in place to recycle this stuff

5) Foundation / hard-core / blinding needs to extend about 0.5m beyond the paved area for stability

If you have thought of these already, fair play to you - I learned after the first rip-off job I paid for.

Best of luck, hope the project goes well.


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## aircobra19 (8 Sep 2008)

What did u do in the end?


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