# ebs question re tracker 2005



## Shamu1 (31 Mar 2016)

New Member

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Hello All,
I'm new to this site but from lurking in the back round I believe Brenda b or Patrick k might be able to advise me on where to go or not with the below.
I took out my mortgage in June 2005 with ebs. On the loan offer letter it states the rate is 3.25 Base and (3.3 apr) which I can only assume was a tracker rate as it does not say fixed or varible. I had this rate a couple of months and then fixed the rate for 3 years following that our only option was to fix or go on varible.

I also have a document from Jan 2006 to say there was an increase of 0.25% in ecb rate so my rate went to 3.5. I have my statement for 2005 and there after. Any advise would be great. Thank you


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## Shamu1 (10 Aug 2016)

Just wondering if anyone can advise on above?


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## Sarenco (10 Aug 2016)

What did the terms of your fix say would happen on expiry of your fixed term?  That's really the key issue.


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## Shamu1 (10 Aug 2016)

It just says on the letter that the fixed term will end after Dec 2008 and that's it. I think it must of went bavk on to varible then because I then have a letter in June 2009 advising me what the fixed rates are and attaching some forms. I really need to see the forms we signed don't I?


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## Sarenco (10 Aug 2016)

Shamu1 said:


> I really need to see the forms we signed don't I?



Yep, otherwise we would only be guessing.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Aug 2016)

Shamu1 said:


> On the loan offer letter it states the rate is 3.25 Base and (3.3 apr) which I can only assume was a tracker rate as it does not say fixed or varible.



That is not a correct assumption. 

Unless your mortgage offer said something along the lines of "The mortgage rate will be at a margin of 1% above the ECB rate", then you did not have a tracker mortgage. 

Having said that, I don't understand the reference to "3.25% base".

It's more likely that your offer said "we can vary the rate from time to time at our discretion."

EBS had the lowest proportion of tracker mortgages, so I think it's very unlikely that you ever had one. 

Brendan


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## peemac (11 Aug 2016)

I would guess that a rate of 3.25% would be equivalent to an apr of 3.3%. Apr's don't really matter on mortgages as they assume the rate is the same for the life of the mortgage but banks still must state them. I think the slight difference in the two rates is due to the apr including some charges.  (I may stand corrected on that).

Stating that 3.25% was a base rate would suggest that the original rate was a standard variable rate of 3.25%.


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## Truffade (16 Aug 2016)

I have a similar question regarding EBS.

We had a tracker mortgage with EBS (on our PPR) that we converted to 5-year fixed in 2006. Once the fixed term expired, the mortgage switched to SVR, which we have been on ever since.

My question is - do we have a case to be included under EBS's tracker redress scheme? (And if "yes" or"possibly", what action should we take? Wait to see if EBS write to us or contact them directly?)

Many thanks.


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## notabene (17 Aug 2016)

Possibly - I think the first thing you need to do is dig out your mortgage contract & fixed rate documents and see what they say regarding the tracker & fixing - you'll have a good idea once you read those and can proceed from there


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## Truffade (17 Aug 2016)

notabene said:


> Possibly - I think the first thing you need to do is dig out your mortgage contract & fixed rate documents and see what they say regarding the tracker & fixing - you'll have a good idea once you read those and can proceed from there



Thanks notabene.

I rang them today. Needless to say, the helpline wasn't very helpful and essentially said "wait and see if you get a letter in a week or two".

I just dug out the relevant letters.

We took out our original mortgage in Nov 2004 on a 'teaser' fixed rate for one year.
When that expired, we were given a range of options (fixed, SVR, tracker).

We elected to go Tracker (ECB + 1.05%). I have a letter from EBS dated 30\11\2005 confirming this.

We then (in our infinite wisdom!) elected to go on a 5-year fixed rate in November 2006.

When this finished in November 2011, we were put on the SVR.
I have a letter from EBS dated 09\11\2011 saying:
"At the end of this month the fixed rate term of your loan will expire. Your payment will revert back automatically to the current variable rate, you are not required to do anything."

So the chronology is:

Had tracker
Chose to go on fixed
Were reverted to SVR at the end of the fixed period (which we have been on ever since)
Does it sound as though we might have a case? I see no letters in my file from the time we switched to fixed and certainly nothing warning that we would lose our tracker after the fixed period was up.

Many thanks. I have no idea if our case fits the criteria or not!


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## notabene (17 Aug 2016)

Possibly!

Have you looked through your actual mortgage agreement? For example in mine it says the tracker was for the life of the mortgage & was told this by the bank,broker & reading it before fixing. The FSO deemed because of this I should have defaulted to a tracker rate upon completion of the fixed rate.

Similarly some of the AIB customers had the option of an offer tracker on completion as one of their options - is there anything like this in your original mortgage contract or fixed rate document?


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## mister32 (17 Aug 2016)

I think you have a good case.

At face value when you fixed, you were accepting an option within your tracker agreement to fix for a period of time.

After that time you were entitled to expect to return to tracker.

I suggest you raise a complaint with the financial ombudsman fsob.

Also email the central bank to bring it to their attention.

Also contact a solicitor or eg Padraic Kissane.


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## Annamo (17 Aug 2016)

mister32 said:


> I think you have a good case.
> 
> At face value when you fixed, you were accepting an option within your tracker agreement to fix for a period of time.
> 
> ...


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## notabene (17 Aug 2016)

mister32 said:


> I think you have a good case.
> 
> At face value when you fixed, you were accepting an option within your tracker agreement to fix for a period of time.
> 
> ...



All good suggestions but I think you need to go through the documentation first just to be as sure as possible before you move on to the next steps such as the FSO & and a third party advisor - the central bank can't do anything for individuals unfortunately!


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## Monbretia (17 Aug 2016)

Were you within a tracker agreement though?  You started on a fixed, when that was up you were offered what they had at the time which included a tracker, you went with fixed again and when that was up tracker was not an option.  Does your original loan offer specify that after the one year rate you have the option of tracker?


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## Annamo (17 Aug 2016)

We also moved from tracker to fixed rate with ebs in 2006. Fixed rate conversion form said we would return to the "applicable variable rate then prevailing" on expiry of fixed rate, we thought this would be the tracker as that was our applicable rate. Went to the fso who ruled with the bank as our original loan offer stated you could move from the tracker only once in the life time of the loan. Felt it was unfair as this info was not highlighted again in the fixed rate conversion form. We did not look at original loan offer when fixing,  our mistake in hindsight - on svr now.


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## notabene (17 Aug 2016)

Annamo said:


> We also moved from tracker to fixed rate with ebs in 2006. Fixed rate conversion form said we would return to the "applicable variable rate then prevailing" on expiry of fixed rate, we thought this would be the tracker as that was our applicable rate. Went to the fso who ruled with the bank as our original loan offer stated you could move from the tracker only once in the life time of the loan. Felt it was unfair as this info was not highlighted again in the fixed rate conversion form. We did not look at original loan offer when fixing,  our mistake in hindsight - on svr now.



that is gutting...very important to look at original mortgage contract


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## todo (18 Aug 2016)

Annamo said:


> We also moved from tracker to fixed rate with ebs in 2006. Fixed rate conversion form said we would return to the "applicable variable rate then prevailing" on expiry of fixed rate, we thought this would be the tracker as that was our applicable rate. Went to the fso who ruled with the bank as our original loan offer stated you could move from the tracker only once in the life time of the loan. Felt it was unfair as this info was not highlighted again in the fixed rate conversion form. We did not look at original loan offer when fixing,  our mistake in hindsight - on svr now.



In my view this is just one of EBS's very clever terms and conditions. In my opinion, you should make sure your mortgage is part of the review process and if the decision is negative fight it again with the FSO on the grounds that what they did is in breach of the consumer protection code.

General principle 3, "does not recklessly, negligently or deliberately mislead a customer as to the real or perceived advantages or disadvantages of any product or service" 
General principe 6,  "makes full disclosure of all relevant material information, including all charges, in a way that seeks to inform the customer"

This is just my view, but when they offered you the fixed rate they should have informed you that you would not be able to return to the tracker rate you were on.

The real advantage of them getting you on a fixed rate was so that they could get another tracker off their books. So their wasn't full disclosure and it was also misleading.


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## Monbretia (18 Aug 2016)

But that's attributing what we know now to 2006!  They weren't trying to get rid of a tracker at that stage, the real advantage of getting customers to fix for 5 yrs in those times was to stop them switching, you had tied in your customer for 5 yrs, switching was big business at the time.


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## todo (18 Aug 2016)

Monbretia said:


> But that's attributing what we know now to 2006!  They weren't trying to get rid of a tracker at that stage, the real advantage of getting customers to fix for 5 yrs in those times was to stop them switching, you had tied in your customer for 5 yrs, switching was big business at the time.



Banks are clever there is a real advantage to them back in 2006 in knowing that if they get this customer to fix, they can set whatever interest rate they like at the end of the fixed period. EBS would have know this and no doubt part of the strategy when they included that rule in the terms and conditions.

There should have been full disclosure, they should have spelled it out, that at the end of the fixed period we can charge you 150% interest if we like.


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## Monbretia (18 Aug 2016)

I don't know!  I think you're attributing far too much brains and forward planning to banks , a lack of both was more the problem.
  Customer could just switch at the end of the 5 yrs if they upped it to 150%.


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## todo (18 Aug 2016)

Monbretia said:


> I don't know!  I think you're attributing far too much brains and forward planning to banks , a lack of both was more the problem.
> Customer could just switch at the end of the 5 yrs if they upped it to 150%.



I think that might be part of the problem, we accepted that banks were acting in the customers best interest, but the clever clause they had in the terms and conditions was in the banks best interest. They knew exactly what they were doing by including that term.

In my view they are in breach of the code of conduct by not seeking to inform the customer when they signed up for the fixed rate, that at the end of the fixed rate they would not return to the tracker rate, but too a rate that they could set to what they like.

If the customer was in negative equity or had a tarnished credit rating they may not be able to switch and would be forced into paying the 150%.


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## Annamo (18 Aug 2016)

Thanks so much for your opinions. Other banks seemed to have been very clear on what options you had at end of the fixed term. EBS just said applicable variable rate then prevailing. How can I ensure our case is included in the review?


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## todo (18 Aug 2016)

Annamo said:


> Thanks so much for your opinions. Other banks seemed to have been very clear on what options you had at end of the fixed term. EBS just said applicable variable rate then prevailing. How can I ensure our case is included in the review?



I'd start by calling them and asking if your account is part of the review and then go from there.


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## Annamo (20 Aug 2016)

Just an update - Contacted ebs , all loans are in the review process , ours wasn't in the first batch but it will be reviewed and we should hear by Christmas what the outcome is


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