# What are the Fire Regulations for use of Polystyrene Tiles & Sheets in ceilings



## Towger (4 Oct 2009)

What are the Fire Regulations for use of Polystyrene Tiles & Sheets in ceilings? 

I have search the internet and come up with nothing, except people think they look dated and are dangerous. There is even a 1970's British government warning clip on painting them with gloss on UTube, but I can't find Irish regulations.
I am also lead to believe that more 'modern' tiles may have a fire retardant in them. When was this (year) added and is it added to Polystyrene sheets as well? If so, how to check without taking a blow touch to them?


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## Towger (5 Oct 2009)

While this thread has been moved to Home and Gardens, the question relates to a commerical building open to the public.


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## Complainer (5 Oct 2009)

Have you looked at the Part B Technical Guidance Document? http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/


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## onq (5 Oct 2009)

You'll need to offer some information on the building and the location of said tiles, i.e. 
the permitted use of the building
the current use of the building
the space in which thay are located
the year the building was commenced
the year the building was completed
If commenced post-August 1992, what the Fire Cert says
If commenced pre-August 1992, what the Building Bye-law Approval says [if there was one]
Whether any notices were ever issued by the Fire Officer.
Whether any notices were ever issued by the Building Control Officer/Bye Law Officer.

That sort of thing.

If this literature exists, you may find your question already answered therein.



ONQ.


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## sydthebeat (5 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> What are the Fire Regulations for use of Polystyrene Tiles & Sheets in ceilings?
> 
> I have search the internet and come up with nothing, except people think they look dated and are dangerous. There is even a 1970's British government warning clip on painting them with gloss on UTube, but I can't find Irish regulations.
> I am also lead to believe that more 'modern' tiles may have a fire retardant in them. When was this (year) added and is it added to Polystyrene sheets as well? If so, how to check without taking a blow touch to them?



domestic build or non domestic??
new or existing build?

if non-domestic new build, specification must conform to fire safety certificate submission detailing internal linings and fire spread. Generally class 0 only to be used.


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## Towger (5 Oct 2009)

Complainer, I can't find much on that link.

The building is:
Non domestic - Warehouse and office space.
Pre 1992, maybe late 60-70s.
Polystyrene Sheets/moulding cladding on the ceiling of the whole building (600sqm) roof (corrugated cement fiber??), extending from warehouse into 1st floor office space. Cladding looks pro fitted and in goodish condition, so I doubt original. Ceiling in 1st floor is about 5 feet at eves. Has fire alarm, emergency lights, fire exit, signs etc.


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## sydthebeat (5 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Complainer, I can't find much on that link.
> 
> The building is:
> Non domestic - Warehouse and office space.
> ...



contact your local fire officer and find out when the last visit was, and has he/she accepted the building as conforming to regulations....


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## onq (5 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Complainer, I can't find much on that link.
> 
> The building is:
> Non domestic - Warehouse and office space.
> ...



I would hold off doing any work on that ceiling for the moment. That roof sounds like old asbestos cement corrugated roof sheeting.
You would be well-advised to get Peter G. Byrne or another competent person to check for asbestos in the building before you undertake any remedial work to the ceiling tiles.

_Asbestos Consultancy Services Limited 
Headed by Peter G. Byrne M.Sc., M.I.C.I. A.C.S. Ltd., offers a comprehensive service including Building Surveying, Project Supervision, Air Monitoring, Sample Identification and Expert Witness.

"Hampdale"
75 Cedarwood Road
Glasnevin
Dublin 11

Tel: 01 834 0152 Fax: 01 8068475 Mobile: 086 826 1784 Email: byrnepg@indigo.ie_ 

I have no connection with Peter other than I retained his office on behalf of two clients on two separate jobs over the past two years and he appeared to give competent advice.

Asbestos installations can be managed, but this may involve leaving it well alone and monitoring its condition for cracking and/or dusting.
A specialist advisor like Peter will tell you what you need to know should you intend to either leave it there or proceed with refurbishment.

It sounds from your description as if the tiles are attached to the roof.
If so, doing any works to them might disturb the sheets and cause dusting.
This is a major health risk and should not occur if the building is currently occupied.
It may have implications for occupants of adjoining buildings and members of the public.
The roof may need replacement following the careful taking down and carrying away of any asbestos sheeting by a competent and licensed contractor.

If you are replacing the roof, you should check with the planning authority as you may need planning permission.
Section 4(i)(h) of the Planning and Development Act 2000 may seem to coverr a multitude, but removing a roof is not exempted development as far as I know.
Erecting a new roof requires permission.

Works affecting Part A Structure or Part B Safety of Occupants from Fire require a Fire Safety Certificate and roof replacement may fall under this definition - ask your local Fire Officer to advise you.

If you find you need to do any of the above, a competent professional should be retained to advise you and obtain the necessary statutory approvals, as well as to design and specify the new roof.

You might also consider going for a change of use to increase the potential lettability/value of the existing building depending on wht its current use is.

FWIW

ONQ.


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## Complainer (6 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Complainer, I can't find much on that link.


Did you find the Part B Technical Guidance Document?


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## Towger (6 Oct 2009)

Hi ONQ, We don't want to do anything to the roof, the polystyrene sheets are not attached directly to the roof, there is a gap of a few inches. They are held up by moulded Polystyrene lengths which appear to be attached directly to the roof steel work. My main concern is the fire risk, especially if 500W spot lights are hung from the main (exposed) support beams. If one was knocked out of alignment pointing up, or a sheet fell on it, could is set the roof on fire or melt a hole etc?


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## Towger (6 Oct 2009)

Complainer said:


> Did you find the Part B Technical Guidance Document?


 
Yes and I could only find one mention of the word polystyrene in it, which was related to insulation.


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## sydthebeat (6 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Hi ONQ, We don't want to do anything to the roof, the polystyrene sheets are not attached directly to the roof, there is a gap of a few inches. They are held up by moulded Polystyrene lengths which appear to be attached directly to the roof steel work. My main concern is the fire risk, especially if 500W spot lights are hung from the main (exposed) support beams. If one was knocked out of alignment pointing up, or a sheet fell on it, could is set the roof on fire or melt a hole etc?



its impossible to tell from the information supplied what the fire risk of these tiles are. They could be treated with some kind of retardant which would reduce the risk but thats hypotetical. Take one down a put a match to it....?!?!?

I think the bottom line is this.

They are a fire hazard. They also react to electrical cables.
If they are fixed to moulded polystyrene lengths then the fire hazard is also increased as these sub structures are also a fire risk.

If you want to minimise risk to both the people working in teh building and the stock held in the building, then they should be removed and a new metal rail system with fireboard sheeting should be installed.


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## onq (6 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Hi ONQ, We don't want to do anything to the roof, the polystyrene sheets are not attached directly to the roof, there is a gap of a few inches. They are held up by moulded Polystyrene lengths which appear to be attached directly to the roof steel work. My main concern is the fire risk, especially if 500W spot lights are hung from the main (exposed) support beams. If one was knocked out of alignment pointing up, or a sheet fell on it, could is set the roof on fire or melt a hole etc?



Hi Towger,

What you want to do and what you may end up doing simply through lack of competence, expertise and/or experience in these matters are two different things.

Merely taking down and re-fixing the tiles may cause enough disturbance for the Asbestos to start dusting and drilling and hammering certainly could.
You may find you need to have these Asbestos roofing sheets assessed as part of your Health and Safety protocol at work and their condition reported on.
I advise you not to work near them or the roof supports until you get this done and request comment from the inspector about carrying on work in their vicinity.
At the very least Asbestos is a hazardous substance, inimical to human health and working in close proximity to, or under, an Asbestos installation warrants special care.

Even today many employeers only paylip service to their duties under the Health and Safety regulations.
You've now been warned twice its over to you and the responsibility for future problems will lie with you and persons in control of the building.
Without contact details I cannot bring it to the attention of persons in control of the building, the building owner, occupier or the local authority.

ONQ.


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## Towger (6 Oct 2009)

Don't worry ONQ, no one works in this building at the moment. It is/was just the leading contender to take out a lease on. I only got to see the place myself in person over the weekend and on closer examination it did not live up to my expectations. From photos it lookes a lot more modern than it really is. Problems is, others don't realise the problems with asbestosis (which it may /mat not have) let alone the polystyrene etc.


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## onq (6 Oct 2009)

Towger said:


> Don't worry ONQ, no one works in this building at the moment. It is/was just the leading contender to take out a lease on. I only got to see the place myself in person over the weekend and on closer examination it did not live up to my expectations. From photos it lookes a lot more modern than it really is. Problems is, others don't realise the problems with asbestosis (which it may /mat not have) let alone the polystyrene etc.



Well that's a relief. Empty shells hold no eggs.

Yes, panels can cover a multitude and actually generate significant risk in a fire emergency - see below.

Older stock have a couple of problems and I include comments below from the PM which are suitable for general release.

I've made three minor edits for typo corrections (2) and clarity (1).

--------------------------------------------

Many of the older Industrial stock have asbestos cement corrugated roof sheeting and plastic corrugated rooflights.

The rooflights may require replacement as being a hazard under Part B in that they may melt and drip onto fleeing occupants.

The tiles with the interstitial cavity over them could allow a flash-over situation, with the fire getting ahead of people running away from it.

Specifically, the fire may propagate along the surface of unsuitable materials or in the cavity above it where there may be no cavity barried and race ahed of fleeing occupants.

During the spread the tiles and rooflights may melt and drip down on occupants causing burns and disabling them preventing them from fleeing the fire.

At the end of that gauntlet, partly burned occupants might find the fire blocing their exit.

All this is without knowing the building use or how things are stored in it - this is first principles stuff.

It is important to deal with these issues as potential hazards in the workplace, not merely as decorative upgrades.

- The possibility of unsuitable rooflights.
- The possibility of an asbestos cement sheet roof.
- The possibility of unsuitable tiles with no interstitial cavity barrier above them.

The employers liability under the Health and Safety legislation is significant and should be assessed in relation the the above, and any other potential safety risks that may arise.

You should also consider compliance with two things I have heard rumour of; -

1. The new Part L directive in relation to insulation and
2. The Green Agenda of carbon neutral buildings by 2013.

In other words, if doing a replacement, choose high performance insulated panels with the implications of same correctly assessed for the building use. We wouldn't want you to overheat.



ONQ.


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