# Football in the street



## roker (10 Sep 2012)

We live in a cul-de-sack of about 10 houses on one side only, I am constantly chasing neighbour’s young kids (6 to 10yr ) from outside of our driveway for playing football. This is not your normal football, they kick it from a few houses away high and it occasionally comes into our garden like a bomb on to our plants and potentially the car.

My wife’s hobby is gardening and she takes a pride of the garden and I don’t see why we should have it destroyed.
A ball glancing off a car can cause multiple scratches, I would think a direct hit is capable of denting a panel.
The neighbours should at this stage know what’s going on and don’t seem to be taking any action
At this stage we are afraid to leave our car in our own drive while we go on holiday.

I am thinking of a) confronting the neighbours direct
b) dropping a letter in the house
c) contacting the Gada (is it their problem?)

Any advice please

Roll on the rainy evenings


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## Sunny (10 Sep 2012)

Before you 'confront' anyone, why don't you call in, have a chat and explain the situation.


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## callybags (10 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> Before you 'confront' anyone, why don't you call in, have a chat and explain the situation.


 
+1.

I had the same problem a few years ago. Had a word with the parents and they couldn't have been nicer about it.

Now their two sons play ball up the road outside houses that don't seem to mind.


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## PaddyW (10 Sep 2012)

Don't go all formal with a letter. They'll probably think you a pompous so and so and encourage their kids to play ball more often down your waym


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## One (10 Sep 2012)

+1.

Some kids damaged a lot of trees and shrubs that the resident's association planted in the common area, because they were using young trees as goal posts. I had to call into the parent's houses about it. The parents were very good about it.


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## Knuttell (10 Sep 2012)

roker said:


> ]The neighbours should at this stage know what’s going on and don’t seem to be taking any action



Of course they do,nor will they as they are just lousy neighbours,you shouldn't have to be put in the situation whereby you have to knock on their door and ask them to control their kids but it looks like that is what its going to take.

These are they type of people who think nothing of littering or illegal dumping as long as its not in their back yard,be pleasant if possible with them but definitely be firm as these type will take a mile if an inch is offered and view anything placatory as a weakness.

This is a civil matter and calling the Gardai would be akin to using a shotgun to swat a fly.


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## Yachtie (10 Sep 2012)

We had (and to an extent still have) the same problem with unbearable noise on top. 

I have politely asked the children to move away to no avail. Then on a particularly bad evening, we called the Gardai who were absolutely useless so I would advise against doing that. Our call to the Gardai was followed by a polite letter to one of the parents to which we received two pages of insults and abuse. 

From experience, I would say try to talk to the parents and see how that goes. Not all neighbours and not all parents have much consideration for others and in our case, some seem to think that by living in a housing estate you *choose *to put up with all kinds of unaccceptable behaviour by both adults and kids. I am saying this just so you have realistic expectations of the outcome. 

Good luck!


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## Sue Ellen (10 Sep 2012)

This is one previous thread on this subject and there may be others.


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## Niallman (13 Sep 2012)

Just read down through that old thread. Some of the posters comments are jaw dropping. The "ah sure they're only kids" brigade who raise their eyebrows at people "over-reacting" because their cars are being damaged or don't get any peace and quiet in their own homes is just unbelievable.


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## liaconn (13 Sep 2012)

Niallman said:


> Just read down through that old thread. Some of the posters comments are jaw dropping. The "ah sure they're only kids" brigade who raise their eyebrows at people "over-reacting" because their cars are being damaged or don't get any peace and quiet in their own homes is just unbelievable.


 

I agree. It does explain though why some kids behave like that. Their parents obviously cannot see any harm in them bothering the neighbours, damaging their property or invading their space.


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## roker (13 Sep 2012)

There's something missing in law here, if neighbours make a noise etc. they can be reported to the garda. I plan to go out with a clip board, explain why they are being moved and take their names, telling them I will contact their parents for expenses when the damage is done.


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## Leper (15 Sep 2012)

I’m looking at Roker’s complaint from different angles. If what he is saying is true I.e. being mortar-bombed by a football from distance on a continuous basis and damage being caused to plants and maybe to his car, I think there is a case for approaching other neighbours and the parents of the footballers. 

However, it might be a case of over-reaction too. Chasing kids away from your driveway is a deserved invitation for trouble. Showing up with a clip-board demanding names and addresses certainly will raise hackles even from neighbours. And then you want compensation for a few wilted plants - recipe for disaster! What better entertainment than by being chased by somebody who will never catch up with you? Add in the clip-board and suddenly you have a control-freak at hand. 

I know our children played football on the road. Trying to stop the ball going into peoples’ gardens is like trying to stop the wind from blowing. There must be a happy medium here. The car has not been damaged, but there is the potential for damage. The bottom line is that there is no damage to the car whatsoever. Therefore, I think the OP is over-reacting. There are neighbours and you must live and let live.

Show me boys that never played games on the street and I will show you somebody who will have psychological problems sooner or later. I would much prefer to see people playing outdoor games than looking into a computer screen playing notional games of no value.

Certainly, if anti-social behaviour is at hand, there is a case for contacting the Gardaí. But, if it is a case of just a few plants being damaged, don’t waste their time, take it on the chin and you will get respect.


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## roker (15 Sep 2012)

I am not overreacting because I had damage to my car at a previous address, and had a window broken because they decided to hit stones with a stick. I have discovered a broken rear light on my present car in the drive, but to be fair I cannot categorically say it was done in my drive.
 As for the plants, a lot of money and time goes into this.
 I also think they should be outside getting execise but in the right places


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## The_Banker (15 Sep 2012)

roker said:


> There's something missing in law here, if neighbours make a noise etc. they can be reported to the garda. *I plan to go out with a clip board*, explain why they are being moved and take their names, telling them I will contact their parents for expenses when the damage is done.



Now I know your a crank.


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## Knuttell (15 Sep 2012)

Leper said:


> Show me boys that never played games on the street and I will show you somebody who will have psychological problems sooner or later.



Utter codswallop



Leper said:


> But, if it is a case of just a few plants being damaged, *don’t waste their time, take it on the chin and you will get respect*.



Utterly Bizarre codswallop

Why any one in their right frame of mind would seek to earn the respect of these people by willfully allowing their own property to be destroyed is entering GUBU territory.


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## Leper (16 Sep 2012)

Thanks for that Knutell plenty of unwanted inspiration for our youth there.However, you are entitled to your views.

If what I am saying is codswallop, how can you explain the elation of our athletes who performed at the paralympics?  These people had to endure adversity and pulled themselves into deserved fame and achievement through sport.  Most sport is learned in the street and not confined to football fields, running tracks etc. Let's say they confined their "sport" to computer games only - what would have been achieved?

Ask yourself a few more questions like:- Why do community Gardaí recommend involvement in sport for everybody?  Why is it that school teachers recommend sport with academic study also?

Sport starts in the road.  It has to start somewhere.  Soccer, GAA clubs welcome new members, but are hard pressed for adults for coaching etc.  Where there is a ball, a road, a field, a track, almost anything normal kids will entertain themselves.  

We all have to live and let live within reason - anything else is not normal. We are all different and seek different entertainment gardening, cycling, football, television etc. The problem is not everybody looks at others sporting entertainment in the spirit it deserves.


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## Niallman (16 Sep 2012)

Leper, this thread and the "elation of our athletes" have absolutely  nothing to do with each other. Roker biting his lip and allowing kids to  damage his private property does not forge a paralympian...although  having read the other thread referenced earlier where the OP's wife  nearly pinned a kid against a wall in error not expecting to come across  one on her property, there may be some unfortunate truth in it.

I  agree that we all have to live and let live within reason. However, it  is NOT reasonable to have to accept that your car or garden will get  damaged just because the local kids may be training for some distant  sporting event. None of the kids on our road play any particular sport  out on the road other than running around, cycling bikes etc. The  majority of them are nice good kids, but their parents have not yet  given them any understanding of respect for property or boundaries. As a  result, the paint-work of one of our cars was marked before it was even  one year old as kids had climbed up on it. Sun-cream is very dificult  to get off a car body! The garden that we work hard to maintain was  regularly damaged having been cycled on, hedges run through and broken,  our annual big display of tulips used get decimated by the kids picking  the nice flowers and then leaving them thrown on the road. We get on  with the kids and have explained why we don't want them coming into the  garden and they now respect that for the most part. 

I wouldn't  agree with Roker suggesting calling in the Gardaí though. Thats going a  bit too far too soon and I wouldn't imagine that theres any malicious  intent on the part of the 6-10 year olds. We were lucky enough in that  we didn't have to go any further than having a word with the kids.  However, a neighbour across the road recently had his car climbed on and  now has a scored windscreen and bonnet and is very definitely and  rightly involving the kid's parents.

Again, all of that has nothing to do with the future of Irish sport.


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## Leper (16 Sep 2012)

Kids play, thank God and long may it last.  A football is something kids use to play, thank God.  We have enough social problems in this country and I bet many are caused by people who never played sport on the street - but that is supposed to be codswallop, isn't it (see a previous post)?  

Gardening is a hobby enjoyed by most, even me.  Plants die, slugs attack etc.  Should we ban slugs? Of course not.  It makes gardening all the more challenging and rewarding. Most of us dont expect to find everything working the minute we wake up each morning.  Sometimes things dont work and we just get on with it; it is the same with gardening.


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## roker (16 Sep 2012)

next they will be allowed to play with a hurley and a sliothar.
Don't forget this is not about a little kick around, this kicking high and coming in like an out of control bomb.


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## SarahMc (16 Sep 2012)

roker said:


> I also think they should be outside getting execise but in the right places



And where would that be?  Not on the road outside your house, for fear they flatten your tulips with a ball, not on the common area as per the earlier post for fear they use young trees instead of jumpers for goalposts. 

Children playing outside can be a total nuisance, but societally it is very important for a host of reasons I shouldnt need to outline. If you cannot cope with children playing outside your house, you really shouldnt live in an estate. 

Climbing on cars is not ok. But football, hopscotch, kick the can, red rover, hanging out etc, all ok by me.


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## mugga (16 Sep 2012)

Playing football is fine but should not be done to interfere with the lives of others. A football match right outside your door is very annoying  and causes lots of excessive noise, shouting and the ball bangs off windows, doors, cars etc. I know as I.ve experienced it. Kids don't realise generally that they're being an annoyance, it's up to their parents to watch that they are not interfering with others. If they want to play football,  an adult --their parents--should lay down the rules so that others living near by are not upset by it. After all everyone on the road / estate should have a right to the peaceful enjoyment of their home.  To the OP I would say go speak to the parents as if they're any way decent they will sort out this problem. Let them know how it is interfering with your life, they probably don't realise it!!!!!!!!!!


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## Yachtie (17 Sep 2012)

SarahMc said:


> If you cannot cope with children playing outside your house, you really shouldnt live in an estate.


 
This is an absolute bugbear of mine! Where does it say on the purchase agreement that by buying a home in a housing estate you *accept* excessive noise, potential damage to your property, direspect and disregard by your neighbours and their children??? 

Once ONE person shows me such clause, I will agree that the OP and anyone else who has issues with children causing all kinds of racket outside of their house (including myself) is over-reacting! I agree that it's a lot more favourable that children play outside rather than sit inside glued to their computers and TV, but for goodnss sake, somebody please tell them that it's possible to communicate without screeching their heads off and take them to the park if they want to play football.


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## Sunny (17 Sep 2012)

Yachtie said:


> This is an absolute bugbear of mine! Where does it say on the purchase agreement that by buying a home in a housing estate you *accept* excessive noise, potential damage to your property, direspect and disregard by your neighbours and their children???
> 
> Once ONE person shows me such clause, I will agree that the OP and anyone else who has issues with children causing all kinds of racket outside of their house (including myself) is over-reacting! I agree that it's a lot more favourable that children play outside rather than sit inside glued to their computers and TV, but for goodnss sake, somebody please tell them that it's possible to communicate without screeching their heads off and take them to the park if they want to play football.


 
Can you show us the clause where children are banned from playing on the street or making any sort of noise in case it upsets you? Or where you are automatically entitled to respect? It's a neighbourhood that you buy into. Warts and all.

If your property gets damaged, there are laws to deal with that. If there is anti-social behaviour, there are laws to deal with that. As far as I know, playing and maybe shouting during the day/early evening is not against any law.


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## Yachtie (17 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> Can you show us the clause where children are banned from playing on the street or making any sort of noise in case it upsets you? Or where you are automatically entitled to respect? It's a neighbourhood that you buy into. Warts and all.
> 
> If your property gets damaged, there are laws to deal with that. If there is anti-social behaviour, there are laws to deal with that. As far as I know, playing and maybe shouting during the day/early evening is not against any law.


 
If you live in an apartment, there are rules against keeping pets such as cats and dogs, having wooden flooring, leaving your bycycle or pushchir on the landing, hanging your laundry outside AND children playing in the communal areas, including the underground or surface car parks. It is not the law but rules which make everyone's life a lot easier and everyone more comfortable. If you live in a house, you have the added benefit of being able to keep pets, have a floor of your choice and hang up your laundry in your back garden. If apartment residents are entitled not to be stumbling over bikes and pushchairs, not to have their car damaged by a football as well as to peace and quiet when they get home, why is it different for house owners? 

There are children on my road who are sent outside to play in front of other people's houses because mummy and daddy have had a long day and want to watch Coronation Street. It seems that if you complain, you are not just the 'grumpy neighbour' and therefore left alone but the one who should be made to put up with whatever they complained about and punished for having the cheek to complain. Respect, regard and consideration for others? Sure, what do we need them for?

The laws you mentioned don't deal with anything because nobody wants to enforce them in housing estates. If your car gets damaged by a neghbourhood children's football, the Gardai will tell you that it wasn't intentional (criminal damage) and therefore you should claim off your own insurance for the repair.


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## Leper (17 Sep 2012)

If you wanna live in an apartment, live in an apartment.  If you wanna live in a housing estate, live in a housing estate.  If you wanna live in the country, live in the country.  

But, leave the children play. We were all young once.


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## Sunny (17 Sep 2012)

Yachtie said:


> If you live in an apartment, there are rules against keeping pets such as cats and dogs, having wooden flooring, leaving your bycycle or pushchir on the landing, hanging your laundry outside AND children playing in the communal areas, including the underground or surface car parks. It is not the law but rules which make everyone's life a lot easier and everyone more comfortable. If you live in a house, you have the added benefit of being able to keep pets, have a floor of your choice and hang up your laundry in your back garden. If apartment residents are entitled not to be stumbling over bikes and pushchairs, not to have their car damaged by a football as well as to peace and quiet when they get home, why is it different for house owners?
> 
> .


 

Because the house rules are included in their lease. The rules are clear at time of purchase. You signed a lease without any of those rules.


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## roker (17 Sep 2012)

SarahMac: to clarify, I do not live in an estate and I own my house.


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## Yachtie (17 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> Because the house rules are included in their lease. The rules are clear at time of purchase. You signed a lease without any of those rules.



This just bolsters my point that unless there is a written rule or a law, some people feel entitled to do what they like without any consideration for others.


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## Sunny (17 Sep 2012)

Yachtie said:


> This just bolsters my point that unless there is a written rule or a law, some people feel entitled to do what they like without any consideration for others.



But you bought a house in an estate where there are no rules concerning communal living or being considerate neighbours. You could have great neighbours. You could have the neighbours from hell. You knew that when you bought. Why should the kids on the street live by your rules with regard to what is acceptable noise levels or not? (and I am not talking about damaging property or real anti social behaviour). 

If your neighbours feel the same as you, set up a residents committee and see what can be done.


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## Niallman (18 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> But you bought a house in an estate where there are no rules concerning communal living or being considerate neighbours.


 
So therefore people are perfectly entitled to be inconsiderate?! The people with the kids also chose to buy into an estate as much as the people without. That does not give them any automatic entitlements just because they're parents.



Sunny said:


> Why should the kids on the street live by your rules with regard to what is acceptable noise levels or not?


 
Why should the people on the street live by what the kids regard to be acceptable noise levels?

This is all about reasonable give and take. I personally don't have a problem with kids running around playing and making noise, I can understand how people might though. I do have a problem though with the potential for my property to get damaged. Whos going to pay when something expensive gets broken? I know some of the parents around are reasonable people who would be mortified if one of their children caused damage. Sod's Law being so, you can guarantee that it'll be Indignant Parent that you'll have to go talk to who'll take the "Sure they were only playing" line and "This is an estate, they've every right to be on your property".


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## Yachtie (18 Sep 2012)

Just to clarify, I am a parent to a very lively 2.5 year old boy who every once in a while decides to excercise his right to 'terrible twos' through screeching his head off and running around like a looper. However, I don't feel that he is *entitled* to screech in front of other people's front window or run into their flower beds and wreck their plants. Even thought of that happening mortifies me so when he starts, he is quickly picked up and brought into the house in order not to bother others. As a parent and a reasonably intelligent person, I don't need the resident's association or a rule book to tell me that my child is not as adorable and precious to other people as he is to me.


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## Sunny (18 Sep 2012)

Yachtie said:


> Just to clarify, I am a parent to a very lively 2.5 year old boy who every once in a while decides to excercise his right to 'terrible twos' through screeching his head off and running around like a looper. However, I don't feel that he is *entitled* to screech in front of other people's front window or run into their flower beds and wreck their plants. Even thought of that happening mortifies me so when he starts, he is quickly picked up and brought into the house in order not to bother others. As a parent and a reasonably intelligent person, I don't need the resident's association or a rule book to tell me that my child is not as adorable and precious to other people as he is to me.



Good for you. Come back in 20 years and tell us what he did as a teenager. I was a good kid. Never even had detention in school. Never smoked. Never drank. Never got in trouble with the guards. However, I played football and games outside my house and my neighbours houses with friends almost every single evening. We all did. Never realised I was such a scumbag.


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## Sunny (18 Sep 2012)

Niallman said:


> So therefore people are perfectly entitled to be inconsiderate?! The people with the kids also chose to buy into an estate as much as the people without. That does not give them any automatic entitlements just because they're parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who has said anyone has a right to be on your property? Who is saying anyone has the right to cause damage? Nobody is talking automatic rights. You know what you buy when you decide to live in an estate. That doesn't mean your life should be a misery but it does mean you will have to put up with some things that you would rather do without.


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## roker (18 Sep 2012)

> = you can guarantee that it'll be Indignant Parent that you'll have to go talk to who'll take the "Sure they were only playing" line and "This is an estate, they've every right to be on your property".


 
I had a window put out with a stone a number of years ago. I saw the lad that did it, when I went to the lads parents, she turned an asked him if he did it, and he said "no", her answer "if he said he didn't do it he didn't do it goodby"


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## Sunny (18 Sep 2012)

roker said:


> I had a window put out with a stone a number of years ago. I saw the lad that did it, when I went to the lads parents, she turned an asked him if he did it, and he said "no", her answer "if he said he didn't do it he didn't do it goodby"



There are idiots everywhere. Vast majority of patents are no different to you and me though and would take these things seriously.


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## DB74 (18 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> You know what you buy when you decide to live in an estate.



The vast majority of people who bought a house over the last 15 years had little or no choice BUT to buy in an estate, whether they wanted to or not.


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## Yachtie (18 Sep 2012)

Sunny said:


> You know what you buy when you decide to live in an estate.



The issue raised by the OP is not exclusive to housing estates. There are many, many residential areas in this country which are not estates. Probably all of older parts of any city. The likes of Ranelagh, Tempelogue, Dartry,... for example. 

How do you argue your point(s) when people from such high density areas with ample outdoor playgrounds and parks complain about football being played in their cul-de-sac instead of in the park just around the corner?

You are taking the discussion very personally. Nobody called you a scumbag! Albeit, I do consider one particular family on my street to be scumbags because they have absolutely no consideration for anyone else's needs, comfort or safety. Their children will kick their football into your window or wall, walk into your front garden as if they own it trampling over any plant that may be in their path and even scowl at you if you see them. Then their bikes, hoola-hoops, skateboards and who knows what else are strewn all over the road and one other neighbour has to move one thing or another almost every morning in order to reverse out of his driveway. Those children produce as much noise as a pack of angry gorillas, an elderly lady from the road parallel to ours has remarked. It's all different circumstances and different levels of annoyance but I really don't think that it's simple as 'ah you bought into it' and 'it's not illegal'. It's not illegal not to let an elderly person or a pregnant lady have your seat on the Luas or on the bus but nice and decent people still get up and afford a fellow passenger just a tiny bit of extra safety and comfort, even though they knew that there may be old or pregnant people on board when they bought their tickets / have paid the same full fare and are equally 'entitled' to a seat / ... .


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## Leper (19 Sep 2012)

The country is changing by the hour these days. Ireland Ltd used to change by the decade, but we've had recessions, booms and now back into a recession that nobody knows when it will end (if ever). Back in the 60's we had bonfires at crossroads even in the city, even platform dancing in some parts of the country. The 70's brough loads of tourism especially from the USA, the 80's brought so many more Yanks that we could ignore the best tourists of all, the Brits, the 90's brought some affluence along with the start of the boom, then into the noughties where many wanted to forget the past because times got so good.

Call the Fire Brigade to quench that bonfire. Get the Gardaí to arrest those somewhat voiciferous revellers after a few drinks, our road is a bit above the next one so stop those kids from playing football. The bikes, hula-hoops etc are an eyesore and should be unseen. Certainly the kids should be unheard. Let's have silence. 

Be careful, we might get that silence and when we get it, it will be the last thing we need. Children playing on the street are our protectors and living witnesses to anything happening on that road. Take the kids off the street and suddenly there is open season for house-breakers and other criminals.

I can think of lots to complain about, but football in the street is not one.


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## liaconn (19 Sep 2012)

No one is saying that kids shouldn't be allowed play outside. They're saying they shouldn't be allowed play in a way that causes damage to other people's property or unduly annoys the neighbours. They are also saying that, where a green or park is available, children should be encouraged to play there and not out on the street.
Obviously when you live in an estate you have to accept that there's going to be a certain amount of noise from neighbours. But also, when you live in an estate you're going to have to accept, as a parent, that your children will have to learn a level of consideration for the other people living close by. Unfortunately some parents think consideration is a one way street and anyone who complains about their kids is just a moaner and shouldn't be living in an estate if they don't like kids kicking footballs against their cars or skateboarding up and down the road at 11 o'clock at night or whatever.
It's not just parents of course. There are also people who seem to see nothing wrong with their dog keeping the neighbours awake all night, or with loudly revving their car at 6 o'clock every morning etc.


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## truthseeker (19 Sep 2012)

A small bit of common courtesy goes a long way.


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