# Petrol Prices in Ireland: are retailers engaging in anti competitive practices



## JR Rizzo (18 Jan 2007)

Sorry!
I know there have been many threads regarding petrol prices already,
but I wonder does anyone know the formula for how much irish petrol companies market their prices?

I'm sure it isnt an exact calculation based on daily oil price movements
and the petrol companies look to set ranges over periods of time that 
will mean they at least dont make a loss.

Oil is now nearing *US$50 *(with US/Euro 1.30 rate) and if you look at www.irishfuelprices.com
prices remain above euro 1 per litre in most places.

Is there a (effective!) watchdog consumer body in Ireland that can investigate this??

The only recent comment in news I can find is some AA guy trying to sound like a bit like your usual property agent spin doctor but not actually giving any constructive WHY reasons.
[broken link removed]


The primary strategy of petrol stations is the *competitive pricing strategy*
-> everyone keeps with a close range, if someone drops price then others HAVE to follow.
The fact that oil continues to decline and nobody has made significant cuts means maybe wholesale prices into Ireland have yet to change?

Petrol stations may charge a discount but hope you will purchase other
retail goods when paying, eg crisps, milk, etc etc
especially of the station is very busy (well located) eg Tesco, centra, etc

Petrol stations may charge premium if they are percieved as being more convenient, well located. (and prob higher costs)
- though this may mean they get more business anyway.

Petrol stations may charge premium if they are isolated and get little custom, ie connemara, kerry, etc 

At the end of the day, the savings you can get by "shopping around", say between e1.05 and e1.00 is negligible for most people in today's Ireland.

but oil has moved from near *US $80 to near US $50* 
a 35%+ drop (with probably favourable euro/US$ exchange rate now!)
and average petrol prices in Dublin have moved from *1.20 to 1*
approx 17% drop.

*Why hasn't the cost of everyone's petrol declined likewise?*


This is even more important when petrol and fuel have such a large knock on cost affect and *inflation* influence.

any ideas?
any comments from people who use home heating oil and gas?

JR.


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Jan 2007)

*Re: Again with the OIL!!! Petrol Prices in Ireland, whats the real deal??*

Please don't SHOUT!

ps Mods, this is surely a Letting Off Steam issue?


----------



## ajapale (18 Jan 2007)

*Re: Again with the OIL!!! Petrol Prices in Ireland, whats the real deal??*

JR,

Please dont *shout*.

If you like I can move this to "The Great Debates" section with a title like "The motor fuels industry in Ireland engages in anti competitive pricing activities" or something similar.

Alternatively if you want to rant I can move it to LOS but you will not be able to post there until you have 50 posts up.

aj


----------



## colin79ie (18 Jan 2007)

*Re: Again with the OIL!!! Petrol Prices in Ireland, whats the real deal??*

I am living close to the border in Donegal. Petrol prices are 108.9 at my local station. If I travel 50 miles down the road to another station of the same company, it is 100.9. Could someone tell me why we are being ripped off like this and nobody seems to care/do anything. 
It's strange to see that when oil prices go up the petrol follows the same day but when they drop, the petrol isn't as fast coming down, if it does at all.

As regards Home heating oil, I recently had an experience with a local oil supplier. My father in law was staying with us as I was away for a week. When I came back I found he had ordered 100 euro worth of oil. I couldn't believe it. The tank was already nearly full. Anyway, I went to pay the bill and it worked out at 80 cent per litre. I had a brief argument and have since changed oil suppliers.
It seems to me that the less money you have to spend on oil, the less you get. Celtic tiger?


----------



## Guest109 (18 Jan 2007)

*Re: Again with the OIL!!! Petrol Prices in Ireland, whats the real deal??*

yesterday in omeath co louth petrol 1.04 euro per litre

i have found out the heating oil you buy it costs a lot dearer per litre when buying a small delivery,so i always wait till im near empty can mean as much as 20 p per litre compared to small orders


----------



## ajapale (18 Jan 2007)

Ive changed the title to "Petrol Prices in Ireland: are retailers engaging in anti competitive practices" but am leaving the discussion in the car section.

I filled my car for 97c/l at the weekend. There must be something wrong if all the pertol retailers in Donegal are over 10c/l more expensive.


----------



## ranger (18 Jan 2007)

Jr Rizzo,

Totally agree with you. Petrol should be well under the €1 level. Nobody seems to care as too much money around. I've seen garages charging 1.15 per liter and IDIOTS filling up. Five minutes down the road it's 1.08. Write into Shane Ross of the Sunday Indo. He likes a good rant about uncompetitive practices and being ripped off. He does get his point across very well. Although, is anybody listening? My personal opinion people should vote with their cars . Although AAM is a great site you need media coverage to highlight this to the free spending Irish Public. I pay 98c per liter.


----------



## Satanta (18 Jan 2007)

Frequently travel between Dublin and Cork. Urlingford always seems to have prices well below the national average, or any other individual stations I see around the country in the days just before or after. 

Not too sure if it's the fact that the local stations keep each other low (the first station either side of the town usually has great prices, one a Texaco [Dublin side] I think and the other the one with the Wimpy attached [Cork side]) or whether the greater volume (good stopping point if doing a Dub Cork run) allows them to have smaller margins. 

Think it was 96.9 (possibly 94.9, can't remember for sure... have to look for the receipt) on Sunday when I spun through.


----------



## ubiquitous (18 Jan 2007)

In my neck of the woods, the keenest filling stations for petrol/diesel tend to be the ones selling a lot of sandwiches and tea/coffee - mostly at extortionate prices. One of the dearest places for fuel sells cheaper (but still nice) sandwiches - at around €2-€2.50 a pop. You gain on the swings and lose on the roundabouts.


----------



## CCOVICH (18 Jan 2007)

ajapale said:


> I filled my car for 97c/l at the weekend. There must be something wrong if all the pertol retailers in Donegal are over 10c/l more expensive.


 

Yes-Tesco were refused planning permission to open in Letterkenny.

Also, petrol in the UK/NI is more expensive than it is in RoI.  Donegal gets plenty of yellow reg customers at current prices.

Tinneys in Letterkenny are/were generally the cheapest around that area.  Donegal Town used to be good value as well.


----------



## redchariot (25 Jan 2007)

I think the issue that is often forgotten is the huge amount of tax that is included in the price of petrol, if you consider every time the price was increased in the budget over the years, you will start to see that the price for the actual petrol pre-tax will be much lower.

This is possibly a fair explanation for the apparent lack of proportionate drop in the price at the pump to the price of oil on the world maket. 

If you looked at it the other way, when the price of oil soared in recent years if our petrol prices went up proportionately, we could have been paying more than €2/litre at the height of the crisis


----------



## sabrina (26 Jan 2007)

Apple Garage in Gormanston Co. Meath is 98.9 unleaded


----------



## ajapale (26 Jan 2007)

most stations in tralee today are 96.9. there is anticipation of a further drop of 1-2c tonight.

Kelloil, Tralee and Tesco, Killarney are the reason for competitive situation in Kerry.

I imagine there is a peculiar set of circumstances at play in border areas. For years people used to travel north for petrol leading to closure of most of the stations in the southern border counties. In recent years this flow has reversed and demand from northern motorists on a smaller number of southern stations has led to the prices being "bid up". Retailers fearfull of a return to the situation that pertained in the 70's and 80's are making sure that the get a better margin.

Also the whitegate oil refinery on the south coast is an alternative source of petrol, which benefits independant operators such as Kelloil and Amber etc.


----------



## Froggie (26 Jan 2007)

Retailers dont all pay the same price for fuel. One station might be buying in Unleaded for 93c per litre while a neighbouring station might be paying 105c per litre. The same lorry might deliver the product on the same day. It depends on the type and age of the supply agreement they have with their supplier.


----------



## Pique318 (26 Jan 2007)

And it all comes from the same bowser in the port...Shell/Esso/Statoil etc... so don't think that Shell Unleaded is 'better' than Statoil cos of the Ferrari linkup....besides...use your purchasing power to stop an immoral company like Shell destroying everywhere they drill....hope Mayo doesn't become the next one !!


----------



## Mr2 (26 Jan 2007)

The short answer is yes they do.


----------



## ubiquitous (26 Jan 2007)

Pique318 said:


> besides...use your purchasing power to stop an immoral company like Shell destroying everywhere they drill....



Okay then, can you suggest what companies I should purchase from instead of Shell?


----------



## Smi1er (29 Jan 2007)

Quit yer moanin'

Filled up yesterday at 85.9p pl.... that's €1.25 if your money


----------



## kilomike (29 Jan 2007)

97.9 in Tesco Maynooth this evening


----------



## huskerdu (30 Jan 2007)

In asnwer to the OPs question, the reason that petrol has not dropped by 35%, as the price of a barrel of oil has dropped is simple.
The tax has not dropped and the cost of processing and transporting the petrol has not dropped. 

Yes, you are right, petrolstations with little local competition, do not have to offer competitive prices and unfortunately, people is rural areas probably have much further to go to get value for money. 

I am no fan of the oil companies but you have not shown any evidence of anti-competitive prices. If Irish consumers vote with thir feet, prices will be put under pressure.


----------



## RainyDay (3 Feb 2007)

JR Rizzo said:


> Is there a (effective!) watchdog consumer body in Ireland that can investigate this??


If you believe there is a cartel in operation, the Competition Authority would be the best people to talk to, though I reckon they would expect fairly hard evidence.


----------



## Guest127 (8 Feb 2007)

petrol actually fell in Dundalk in the past week to 99.9c. however with the cold spell in the usa it appears the price of  crude oil increased to nearly 60 dollars a barrell again. with the speed on lightning one dundalk garage has increased the price to 102.9 again. not so fast taking it down.  I would also think that with the dollar at 1.30 to a euro that the price should reflect that.  I know the old chestnuts ' taxes, vat, overheads etc will be trotted out but you have to admire the speed the garages can change prices when the price of oil goes up. beep beep as that cartoon character says.


----------



## bonzos (8 Feb 2007)

very sucessfull cartel in operation in sligo for number of years now.


----------



## Froggie (8 Feb 2007)

if you are a retailer then the more you sell the cheaper you buy the product. So if you stop buying from the small local stations then their volume will decrease, so their costs will go up, then they will close down. It has happened in England and France, it will happen here too.


----------

