# 90 litre wine limit France to Ireland



## kitty81 (18 Apr 2019)

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right forum but I couldn't see which would be more suitable.

I have searched online for this to no avail. My father in law arrived back to Ireland by ferry recently and was stopped at customs.  He had just under the 90 litre limit so all was fine, however, they took his passport & reg number & said it was an annual limit rather than a per trip limit.

We are curious now about this as everywhere we had read it doesn't specify that it is annual & if it is, is it on a rolling period or calendar year? 

Needless to say he'll be fine with the quantity he has for a year or more anyway but would appreciate some clarity on it?


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## jpd (19 Apr 2019)

The Revenue website says


> If you want to bring in alcohol and tobacco products (up to the indicative limits below) without paying extra duty or tax:
> 
> 
> you must be 17 or older
> ...


No mention of per month, year or any period - if he imported 90L every week, then they would certainly be suspicious but 90L every quarter - hey, I'll drink to that!


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## newtothis (19 Apr 2019)

The regulation is that it has to be for personal use.

The 90 litre figure is just a guide, in the sense that if it's more then that it would be assumed not to be for personal use.

Having said that, they can also take other factors into account: for example, if you did the same trip every other day with 90 litres on each trip, you'd have an issue. Saying it's an annual limit seems excessive, though: maybe this was just said to put him on notice? I think in effect that if you start pushing the boundaries of the limits, the burden of proof shifts to you to prove it’s for personal use rather than customs having to prove the opposite.

See: [broken link removed]


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Apr 2019)

Exactly, it’s a guide. Someone with far more than that who was organising their daughter’s wedding and bringing back the wine would be fine, for example. They might be asked to prove it which would be easy enough.


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## Steven Barrett (19 Apr 2019)

They were marking his card. The limits are generous enough but if you push the boundaries, they'll clamp down on you.


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## kitty81 (19 Apr 2019)

Thank you for all the replies. I guess it all depends on who you get on the day so! 

In fairness, they are genuinely only using for family consumption......There is a couple of family occasions & they kindly provide the wine


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## Purple (24 Apr 2019)

90L per person is about 2.5 bottles a week. That sounds reasonable.


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## cremeegg (24 Apr 2019)

Purple said:


> 90L per person is about 2.5 bottles a week. That sounds reasonable.



For a 36 week year. Must be a maths teacher.


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## jpd (24 Apr 2019)

Apology in order - to maths teacher at least.
90L = 120 bottles of wine (75CL is the norm) so 2.5 is about right 48 weeks so Dry November


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## SparkRite (24 Apr 2019)

cremeegg said:


> For a 36 week year. Must be a maths teacher.



A little bit of 'fast fingered Freddy' methinks...........

90 /.75/52 = 2.307 bottles per week, just a mouthful short of 2.5


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## cremeegg (24 Apr 2019)

Purple is definitely a maths teacher. Who else would change the units from litres to bottles in mid question.


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## Purple (24 Apr 2019)

cremeegg said:


> Purple is definitely a maths teacher. Who else would change the units from litres to bottles in mid question.


No, just a budding alcoholic.


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## john luc (24 Apr 2019)

A know a retired European space agency scientist who told me that he keeps his research going be doing chemistry experiments of converting alcohol into urine


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## Palerider (25 Apr 2019)

john luc said:


> A know a retired European space agency scientist who told me that he keeps his research going be doing chemistry experiments of converting alcohol into urine



He is simply taking the P...


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## Macbeth (25 Apr 2019)

So, going back to the OP's situation, was the customs official incorrect in saying it was an annual limit and if so, what was his basis for doing so? The EU legislation makes no mention of annual limits.


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## SparkRite (25 Apr 2019)

Yes, he was incorrect.
And in fact 90L is also incorrect, as there is no limit for personal use.


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## newirishman (25 Apr 2019)

SparkRite said:


> Yes, he was incorrect.
> And in fact 90L is also incorrect, as there is no limit for personal use.



I recommend to read this 
[broken link removed]
And this
[broken link removed]

There’s no yearly limit mentioned, however, 

the goods must be acquired by you for your own personal use and you cannot intend to sell them.
Which is within the rights of the customs officers to asses.
You probably get away with a second trip shortly afterwards but exceeding the limits significantly within a reasonable timeframe can easily be argued against being for personal use.

You can of course still bring the stuff in, but you might be required to pay excise duty.
This is well within the spirit of the legislation, and you will be hard pressed to convince a judge otherwise.


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## llgon (25 Apr 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Someone with far more than that who was organising their daughter’s wedding and bringing back the wine would be fine, for example





kitty81 said:


> In fairness, they are genuinely only using for family consumption......There is a couple of family occasions & they kindly provide the wine



Would these examples definitely qualify as 'personal use' if there are quantities in excess of those cited by the customs officials and quoted in the Revenue guidelines?


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## newirishman (25 Apr 2019)

llgon said:


> Would these examples definitely qualify as 'personal use' if there are quantities in excess of those cited by the customs officials and quoted in the Revenue guidelines?



No, not necessarily. Personal means for use _by the person_ who imports the stuff. Not for family.


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## SparkRite (25 Apr 2019)

newirishman said:


> I recommend to read this
> [broken link removed]
> And this
> [broken link removed]
> ...



Yes indeed, as I said, 



SparkRite said:


> Yes, he was incorrect.
> And in fact 90L is also incorrect, as there is no limit for personal use.


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## Macbeth (25 Apr 2019)

A customs officer at Dublin port today told us there was an annuali limit and that if we travelled again later in the year and exceeded the 90 litres cumulatively, our purchases could be seized. How can they say this if it is not correct? Is there a new policy to intimidate travellers with a view to deterring EU purchases? If they did seize the stuff, what can you do?


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## Gordon Gekko (26 Apr 2019)

That’s utter nonsense...there is freedom of movement within the EU so if it’s clear that 1,000 litres of wine are for me, it’s fine. The problem is when it’s wooly, but if I can show, for example, that I’ve 300 people for a wedding, I should be grand with 225 bottles / 169 litres of vino.


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## Macbeth (26 Apr 2019)

I agree that it's nonsense but I'm not the only person who's been told this recently. If it's not true then why are customs officials saying it? They must have been told to do so. Are they bluffing? What's going on?


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## newirishman (26 Apr 2019)

Macbeth said:


> I agree that it's nonsense but I'm not the only person who's been told this recently. If it's not true then why are customs officials saying it? They must have been told to do so. Are they bluffing? What's going on?



Nothing is going on, and nobody is bluffing.
You can bring as much booze as you want, however, you might have to pay excise duty for anything in excess of the stated limits. Customs is more than happy to have you bring lorries full of wine on a daily basis and collect excise duty on it. If you don’t want to pay excise duty, the stuff will be seized.
Simple, really.

Edited to say that it is probably still worth doing the trip if you buying fo a wedding or a series of family events. Even if you add the excise duty you probably still save a lot of money compared to buying it in a shop or wholesaler, and you have a bigger selection of course.


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## Macbeth (21 Jun 2019)

Macbeth said:


> A customs officer at Dublin port today told us there was an annuali limit and that if we travelled again later in the year and exceeded the 90 litres cumulatively, our purchases could be seized. How can they say this if it is not correct? Is there a new policy to intimidate travellers with a view to deterring EU purchases? If they did seize the stuff, what can you do?


....just as a follow up....
I came back through Dublin Port again recently on a Sunday and while there were Gardaí checking passports, etc., there were no customs officers at all, so I could have brought in loads of wine. One extreme to the other.


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## Leper (22 Jun 2019)

Macbeth said:


> ....just as a follow up....
> I came back through Dublin Port again recently on a Sunday and while there were Gardaí checking passports, etc., there were no customs officers at all, so I could have brought in loads of wine. One extreme to the other.



Sometimes I wonder, Paddy the Irishman gets a rare break and takes advantage - Great! - We all love a break - Then somebody comes on here and blows the whistle ensuring nobody will get the same break in the future. Furthermore, every drug baron in the country now knows of what day to import their products of misery.

Advice from the Leprous One:- When you get a break, take it and stay quiet.


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## SparkRite (22 Jun 2019)

Leper said:


> Furthermore, every drug baron in the country now knows of what day to import their products of misery.



I can see it now, :-

"Mick, the lads from Colombia are on their way, with that shipment, it's coming via, Algiers, Morocco, Amsterdam and then the usual way in here."

"Tell them not to bother going half way round the world , sure I read on AAM that we can bring it directly in next Sunday. Now, why didn't we think of that before ?"

"Don't know Mick, thank God for AAM, sure it'll save us a fortune, by the way it's your round".

Incredible stuff.


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## odyssey06 (22 Jun 2019)

Sparkrite you are hereby fined one bottle of wine per user who read this thread. I will pm address.


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## keving1989 (5 May 2021)

Any idea what would happen in this situation; a business importing wine from France (would be included in shipment of stock from French supplier) not for resale eg. Christmas presents / gifts to customers. I wonder would this need to be declared to customs beforehand and if excise duties etc are to be paid


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## MrEarl (5 May 2021)

I would think that would technically be for commercial use, as the wine is going to be used as corporate gifts etc.


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## Leo (6 May 2021)

keving1989 said:


> Any idea what would happen in this situation; a business importing wine from France (would be included in shipment of stock from French supplier) not for resale eg. Christmas presents / gifts to customers. I wonder would this need to be declared to customs beforehand and if excise duties etc are to be paid



As above, personal exemption limits won't apply so excise will be due on the lot. The personal limit only applies to what you are transporting yourself and is for personal use. As this is being shipped by a carrier excise will be charged. The fact that you plan to gift it is irrelevant.


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## keving1989 (7 May 2021)

Thanks guys, will probably head up to the North when this minimum unit pricing comes in


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## Leo (7 May 2021)

keving1989 said:


> Thanks guys, will probably head up to the North when this minimum unit pricing comes in


If you're just in the market for the cheapest booze, are you not risking the cost of the trip outweighing any savings?


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## keving1989 (7 May 2021)

Usually in the North every couple of months so wouldn't be traveling up for the sake of booze alone


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## peemac (7 May 2021)

keving1989 said:


> Thanks guys, will probably head up to the North when this minimum unit pricing comes in


If you value your clients, I'd avoid giving them wine that would take the enamel off their teeth.

Remember, mostly only the cheap rubbish alcohol will be affected by this.

Your half decent €15 bottle, basic  quality €9 bottle and premium €25+ bottle will not be affected in any way.

The 3.99 bottle of pure rubbish, will.


Similarly on spirits, the €22 Jameson special offer, will still be €22, but the €13 bottle of own brand paint stripper vodka will become €20


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## Baby boomer (10 May 2021)

keving1989 said:


> Thanks guys, will probably head up to the North when this minimum unit pricing comes in


Yep, great savings available.  We have the highest rates of excise duty on wine in the EU and considerably higher than the UK.  The contrast for champagne and sparkling wines is particularly stark.  Excise duty in Ireland = €8.49 per litre.  Over the border in Newry, it's £3.81 per litre.  Then add VAT to the differential and you're getting it for fiver a bottle cheaper.  Throw in lower retail costs and margins and what costs you €20 per bottle here will often be about £12 in Newry.  And that's before you factor in the regular buy 6, get 25% off offers in both Sainsbury's and Tesco. 

You will of course miss out on the satisfaction of funding all that wasteful government spending down here.  Oh dear.   

BTW on the OP about the so-called limit for personal use, does personal use equal personal consumption?  I would have thought you're perfectly entitled to bring in stuff as gifts for family or friends, or if you're throwing a party.


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## Leo (10 May 2021)

Baby boomer said:


> I would have thought you're perfectly entitled to bring in stuff as gifts for family or friends, or if you're throwing a party.


The 90l limit applies as per above. Going back a few years now and before the 90 litre limit was put in writing, the advice on the ferries was personal use would only be accepted for large quantities on production of evidence of a function like a wedding.


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## Baby boomer (10 May 2021)

Leo said:


> The 90l limit applies as per above. Going back a few years now and before the 90 litre limit was put in writing, the advice on the ferries was personal use would only be accepted for large quantities on production of evidence of a function like a wedding.


It's playing their game to even refer to it as a limit.  There is no limit under EU law for personal consumption.  At best, it's merely a guideline below which personal use won't be challenged.  But you're still entitled to bring in more than the so-called limit for your personal use.  That's your absolute right as an EU citizen despite the sneaky attempt by the Irish state to give the contrary impression in order to preserve an exorbitant source of tax revenue.


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## newirishman (10 May 2021)

Baby boomer said:


> It's playing their game to even refer to it as a limit.  There is no limit under EU law for personal consumption.  At best, it's merely a guideline below which personal use won't be challenged.  But you're still entitled to bring in more than the so-called limit for your personal use.  That's your absolute right as an EU citizen despite the sneaky attempt by the Irish state to give the contrary impression in order to preserve an exorbitant source of tax revenue.


This is incorrect. You can of course bring as much as you want but you might required to pay duties.








						Rules for carrying alcohol, tobacco, cash in the EU and leaving and entering the EU - Your Europe
					

Travelling in the EU with wine, beer, spirits and other alcoholic drinks, and cigars, cigarettes and other tobacco products. Leaving and entering the EU with alcohol, tobacco and cash.




					europa.eu
				






> Be aware that each EU country can decide on a maximum amount of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages that you can bring into the country. These maximum amounts *must be at least*:
> 
> 800 cigarettes
> 400 cigarillos (cigars weighing maximum 3 grams each)
> ...



And check also here, where you will see that Ireland is using exactly those limits.

[broken link removed]


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## Leo (11 May 2021)

Baby boomer said:


> That's your absolute right as an EU citizen despite the sneaky attempt by the Irish state to give the contrary impression in order to preserve an exorbitant source of tax revenue.


As above, you're absolutely wrong. Ireland are perfectly entitled to apply excise on all imports, they just waive them below certain limits. 

It's also wrong to suggest that the application of excise on accompanied imports is a significant source of revenue.


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## EmmDee (13 May 2021)

keving1989 said:


> Thanks guys, will probably head up to the North when this minimum unit pricing comes in



Are you not then subject to import duties for commercial goods from a non-EU country?


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## Kilkenny Lass (15 Feb 2022)

Hi Guys

Can't find the answer to this so thought this thread was the best option.  What are the duty free rules for someone buying wine in France and then travelling to Ireland via the UK via ferries and land.  Can they use the EU allowance on arrival in Ireland?
Thanks


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## Luternau (15 Feb 2022)

I would say it's deemed declarable import to UK Customs on arrival from France. As far as I am aware, there is no bonded in transit to other EU country via UK regeme.it would be impossible to check or control that no duty free alcohol goods were offloaded in GB before export to Ireland. 
In Ireland, the customs then treat as import from UK so apply basic limit, not intra EU limit, of 60l of wine (deemed personal allowance) 
Ex France with a boot load of wine is best direct sailing to Ireland.


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## Purple (16 Feb 2022)

Kilkenny Lass said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Can't find the answer to this so thought this thread was the best option.  What are the duty free rules for someone buying wine in France and then travelling to Ireland via the UK via ferries and land.  Can they use the EU allowance on arrival in Ireland?
> Thanks


As above, it's best to go directly from the mainland to Ireland rather than going through Britain.


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## Kilkenny Lass (16 Feb 2022)

Thanks for replies guys.  I know its best to go directly from France to Ireland but seas are rough at the moment so thinking of changing route!!


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## Itchy (16 Feb 2022)

Kilkenny Lass said:


> Thanks for replies guys.  I know its best to go directly from France to Ireland but *seas are rough at the moment* so thinking of changing route!!


Especially with a trailer of fizz!


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