# Building on a site you don't own



## alfaromeo84 (15 Dec 2009)

Hi all, i have been given a site at my home place, and intend to start building in the new year. It was my intention to transfer the site to my name at a later stage, not immediately, is this ok. I haven't been to settle the mortgage yet, could this prove a problem.


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## mf1 (15 Dec 2009)

alfaromeo84 said:


> Hi all, i have been given a site at my home place, and intend to start building in the new year. It was my intention to transfer the site to my name at a later stage, not immediately, is this ok. I haven't been to settle the mortgage yet, could this prove a problem.



Don't even go there! 

Do things right and in order so, first, before doing anything else at all, have the property properly transferred into your own name. 

It is not ok to build on land you do not own. It has all the potential to go belly-up. 

mf


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## Vinnie_cork (15 Dec 2009)

+ 1 on agreement.... Don't Build without owning it.


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## tommysmith (15 Dec 2009)

Who owns the site at present? I think from memory a transfef of land must be in writing.
I agree with the previous two posts, it is best to get it into your name. 

Suppose the present owners were to change their mind where would you be?
Suppose one of the present owners remarried and then died, how would you be fixed?

Also make sure access and egress issues are ok. Dont end up with a right of way etc. 
While everything is ok at present it is hard to see how things develope if the future. 

Best of luck with your plans to build a new house.


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## serotoninsid (15 Dec 2009)

From memory I *think* there have been a few threads on here recently from folks trying to sort out this very problem after the fact.  Sounds scary .....stay well a way.  Go the right way round it from the start.


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## Mpsox (15 Dec 2009)

basically you want a bank to lend you money to build a house on land you don't own !!!!

Assuming there is no family feud at some stage down the line, you can sort it out but you'll be wasting money for solicitors to do so instead of doing it now. Likewise in the current climate, I'm sure many lenders would not want the additional risk


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## LouisCribben (15 Dec 2009)

alfaromeo84 said:


> Hi all, i have been given a site at my home place, and intend to start building in the new year.


 

Strictly speaking you havent been given anything.
A verbal agreement to give you a site does not give you legal title to the land.
The person who "gave" you the site should go with you to a solicitor to put the land in your name, otherwise it's not your land.

I'd be surprised in the current climate if a bank will give you a mortgage without checking that the site is in your name.


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## mf1 (15 Dec 2009)

alfaromeo84 said:


> Hi all, i have been given a site at my home place, and intend to start building in the new year. It was my intention to transfer the site to my name at a later stage, not immediately, is this ok. I haven't been to settle the mortgage yet, could this prove a problem.



I looked at this again and I just have to ask the question - why would anyone choose to go at this project in the manner suggested? Its a sort of back to front way of looking at things. Or is that regarded as a perfectly normal way of doing things nowadays? 

Is it fear of the expense of getting proper legal advice? Or because they have the opportunity to do some work with a few of the lads? 

I've turned into both of my parents simultanaeously! 

mf


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## siteissues (15 Dec 2009)

hey just after transferring my own site after years of living in the new house. House built by personal loan and savings so never needed to actually own site (for a mortgage u def do). Parents land-who had panic over changes in this budget (not sure did they happen). Transfer from parent to child is free from CAT, CGT and stamp duty (at least before budget), revenue have to agree to the transfer in order to get exception.

Not much cost involved in simple transfer as in my case-have yet to get final bills but sol €950 plus VAT, €50 photocopy, €25 folio map, fee to land reg think €125 was stated, site valuation turned out to be €20 and engineer to mark map only €80 (had been told €300). All prices go up if uv work to do for bank.

Hope this helps any further questions just ask......


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## onq (15 Dec 2009)

siteissues said:


> hey just after transferring my own site after years of living in the new house. House built by personal loan and savings so never needed to actually own site (for a mortgage u def do). Parents land-who had panic over changes in this budget (not sure did they happen). Transfer from parent to child is free from CAT, CGT and stamp duty (at least before budget), revenue have to agree to the transfer in order to get exception.
> 
> Not much cost involved in simple transfer as in my case-have yet to get final bills but sol €950 plus VAT, €50 photocopy, €25 folio map, fee to land reg think €125 was stated, site valuation turned out to be €20 and engineer to mark map only €80 (had been told €300). All prices go up if uv work to do for bank.
> 
> Hope this helps any further questions just ask......



€80 to mark map only.

Did he even walk the site to confirm boundary?

There will come a point when all the economizing is going to end in tears.

ONQ.


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## Bluebells (16 Dec 2009)

You won't get a mortgage unless you own the site. I couldn't.


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## siteissues (16 Dec 2009)

onq said:


> €80 to mark map only.
> 
> Did he even walk the site to confirm boundary?
> 
> ...


 
Of course he physically walked and measured the site. i thought he was very cheap from the €300 I heard it would cost. I had to give him the original planning permission map and he confirmed the site matched the original PP.


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## onq (16 Dec 2009)

siteissues said:


> Of course he physically walked and measured the site. i thought he was very cheap from the €300 I heard it would cost. I had to give him the original planning permission map and he confirmed the site matched the original PP.



Astonishing price.
Senior engineer €150/hour plus.
Visit the site, walk the boundary, compare folio map and PP.
Return to the office, mark the map, write the covering letter.
Plus, given the liability taken on board I wouldn't do it for that money.

BTW, the normal assurance requried in a Declaration of Identity from a building professional for a solicitor is that "the land in sale or transfer lies wholly within the above-named folio" or words to that effect.

You're buying a piece of an existing folio.
Conveyancing doesn't recognise planning law, per se.
Just the fact that the land to be sold lies within the cited folio or folios.

Certifying that the land matches the permission will not even arise, since the matter goes to part of it being conveyed to the new purchaser and relates often to older registry of deeds maps.

When the property is built and you're issing a declaration at that time, it may be required to refer to the PP. I presume he used the new ITM maps from the Registry?

FWIW

ONQ.


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## MOB (17 Dec 2009)

€80 does sound ridiculously cheap.  Possibly, because the house was already there, the physical boundaries had already been well established and were already marked on the OS map - which would make the job a lot easier.  But still, fantastically cheap.


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## RKQ (18 Dec 2009)

MOB said:


> €80 does sound ridiculously cheap.


 
I agree €80 is very cheap. I think €150 +vat is very cheap for a straight forward Land Reg map.


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## onq (18 Dec 2009)

RKQ said:


> I agree €80 is very cheap. I think €150 +vat is very cheap for a straight forward Land Reg map.



Agreed, which is why I quoted an approximate hourly rate €150/hour plus and listed the tasks.



It usually depends on whether or not it is a service being provided as part of an ongoing involvement with an apartment development.

You'll agree a fee for that part of the work covering maybe 100 apartments.

Most firms who do this kind of work will have set fees for once-offs.

ONQ.


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