# Gender Pay gap



## Purple (16 Nov 2017)

Karl Deeter wrote an interesting piece on the Gender Pay gap and the reasons why it exists. Link
Do people here agree?
If he's right there is a lot of very disingenuous commentary going around on this issue.
_Edit: Link Added_


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## odyssey06 (16 Nov 2017)

I havent read the article but I dont think there is one for people who entered the workforce this century.


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## galway_blow_in (16 Nov 2017)

" Gender pay gap " is a complete myth but one which has become received wisdom , if it were a reality , who would bother employing a man when women are cheaper to pay , the average Nigerian in Ireland earns less than the average American living in Ireland, ditto the average brit earns more than the average Romanian, it's still illegal however to pay a Nigerian consultant doctor less than an American doctor, same deal with a female doctor 

There are clear reasons why on average women earn less , they often leave the workplace to have kids just as the better wages begin rolling in


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## Purple (16 Nov 2017)

I think the baby issue is solvable by making maternity leave into parental leave. Make it so that it can be shared between the two parents, say the mother has to take the first 6 weeks and the rest may be shared between both parents as they see fit. That way men are just as much of an economic risk as women.


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## galway_blow_in (16 Nov 2017)

Purple said:


> I think the baby issue is solvable by making maternity leave into parental leave. Make it so that it can be shared between the two parents, say the mother has to take the first 6 weeks and the rest may be shared between both parents as they see fit. That way men are just as much of an economic risk as women.



well if your number one goal is the reshaping of everything so as everything is exactly the same , i suppose

the kind of people who scream about " gender pay gaps " and such tend to want the state to dictate every move people make


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## michaelm (16 Nov 2017)

I must confess that I'm a 'Gender Pay Gap' denier.  Sure, women may earn less than men on average but that's largely down to the types of job it suits some people to do.


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## Palerider (16 Nov 2017)

I spent the bulk of my life in a workplace where men and women were paid the same, there was much more expected of the men, just my 10 cents...


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## Purple (16 Nov 2017)

Palerider said:


> I spent the bulk of my life in a workplace where men and women were paid the same, there was much more expected of the men, just my 10 cents...


That's very un-PC but it's probably true. It is kind of expected that women will take time off for sick kids, parent teacher meetings etc but if and when men do the same it is frowned upon. In my experience men are expected to work late and generally eat into family time when required but the same is not expected of women. I'm certainly not saying that's the way it should be but it is often the case, especially in smaller organisations.


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## Purple (16 Nov 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> well if your number one goal is the reshaping of everything so as everything is exactly the same , i suppose
> 
> the kind of people who scream about " gender pay gaps " and such tend to want the state to dictate every move people make


It's about giving people the same choices. 
Why do women get 6 months to bond with their children and men only get 2 weeks? equality has to work both ways. 
Why does children's allowance automatically go to the mother? Are fathers not parents too?


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## Purple (16 Nov 2017)

Women are more likely to have a third level qualification.
Women are less likely to be unemployed.
Women under the age of 35 earn more than men.
Men are 10 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured in the workplace. 

Is much of the gender pay gap a legacy of how things were?
Men over the age of 55, those who entered the workforce 30 years ago when there really was serious discrimination, earn more than women over the age of 55.


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## galway_blow_in (16 Nov 2017)

Purple said:


> It's about giving people the same choices.
> Why do women get 6 months to bond with their children and men only get 2 weeks? equality has to work both ways.
> Why does children's allowance automatically go to the mother? Are fathers not parents too?



Oh did you think the " equality " thing was about that ?


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## Purple (17 Nov 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> Oh did you think the " equality " thing was about that ?


What is it about then?


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## galway_blow_in (17 Nov 2017)

Purple said:


> What is it about then?



so did you honestly think those who shout loudest about gender equality actually gave a damn about the plight of men ?

feminism is poison


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## Purple (17 Nov 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> so did you honestly think those who shout loudest about gender equality actually gave a damn about the plight of men ?
> 
> feminism is poison



People who campaign for the rights of one group are not going to spend their energy talking about other groups. That doesn't mean they don't give a damn about those other groups. Concern campaign for those in need in the developing world. That doesn't mean that the people working there don't care about issues at home.


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## Slim (17 Nov 2017)

I think much of the argument is driven by focus on high profile jobs, e.g. RTE news readers, Ryan, Joe etc. The reality is that, because of gender, most women experience a shortfall in lifetime earnings compared with men. Women take time off work to have babies, raise them and when they return to work, they have fallen behind on pay awards, levels as compared with their male counterparts. Women are less likely to have the energy/time to undertake further education at a time when it will be most useful to their careers/earning powers. Many women opt for lower paid jobs to facilitate the childcare/time off to take care of kids. My wife took a few years off to have and part raise the kids. She is now 5 years behind in salary/career and promotion etc and will retire with a much smaller pension than me. But, she wouldn't exchange those years for the money. We are lucky in that we are in a public sector workplace and equality of pay is built in, now. There is no moral excuse for paying different rates for the same job based on gender or any other basis such as dated recruited, none at all. Perhaps women should receive incremental credit for the time off on career break to have/raise children?


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## galway_blow_in (17 Nov 2017)

Purple said:


> People who campaign for the rights of one group are not going to spend their energy talking about other groups. That doesn't mean they don't give a damn about those other groups. Concern campaign for those in need in the developing world. That doesn't mean that the people working there don't care about issues at home.



then drop the " equality " tag line

feminism is about lobbying for female advantage in any given situation or scenario , that and blaming men for every ill in the world

its utterly divisive , i fear for my fourteen month sons future in many ways


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## Purple (17 Nov 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> then drop the " equality " tag line
> 
> feminism is about lobbying for female advantage in any given situation or scenario , that and blaming men for every ill in the world
> 
> its utterly divisive , i fear for my fourteen month sons future in many ways


For me there is a real issue with the femininisation of society but saying that all people who identify as feminists are anti men and are looking for dominance rather than equality is just not true. There is certainly a group who are anti-men but they don't own the word feminist.


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## galway_blow_in (17 Nov 2017)

Purple said:


> For me there is a real issue with the femininisation of society but saying that all people who identify as feminists are anti men and are looking for dominance rather than equality is just not true. There is certainly a group who are anti-men but they don't own the word feminist.



well that strand are the most prominent and influential today


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## odyssey06 (17 Nov 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> well that strand are the most prominent and influential today



I think a line was crossed when quotas and 'positive' discrimination comes onto the table. That's nothing to do with equality. That is simply switching which cohort of society is 'advantaged' legally. Same with reducing the standards for Gardai, firefighters etc. Either you can do the job physically or you can't. If you can and you are a woman, that's equality.


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## Delboy (17 Nov 2017)

When women fight for gender quotas in sewerage works, labouring on building sites, pest control etc, then I'll sign up to gender equality across the board.


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## Purple (20 Nov 2017)

Delboy said:


> When women fight for gender quotas in sewerage works, labouring on building sites, pest control etc, then I'll sign up to gender equality across the board.


Good point. Will we see gender quotas in Nursing and teaching and law and medicine?
If you are in favour of gender quotas in politics and engineering and sciences then you should be in favour of the same in female dominated work areas.


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## dereko1969 (20 Nov 2017)

All a bit international men's day in here.


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## Purple (20 Nov 2017)

dereko1969 said:


> All a bit international men's day in here.



I didn't hear too much about that on RTE...


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## Delboy (9 Apr 2018)

*Bank of Ireland commits to gender equality in executive hires by 2021*
*Women currently account for 36 per cent of management and leadership roles in bank*
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...equality-in-executive-hires-by-2021-1.3455610

Tick tock boys!


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## Purple (10 Apr 2018)

Delboy said:


> *Bank of Ireland commits to gender equality in executive hires by 2021*
> *Women currently account for 36 per cent of management and leadership roles in bank*
> https://www.irishtimes.com/business...equality-in-executive-hires-by-2021-1.3455610
> 
> Tick tock boys!


If more women were on the boards of banks during the boom I don't think we'd have had the sort of reckless carry on we saw. When I heard the recordings of the Anglo executives it struck me that if half the people on the calls were women there would have been a completely different conversation.


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## odyssey06 (10 Apr 2018)

Purple said:


> If more women were on the boards of banks during the boom I don't think we'd have had the sort of reckless carry on we saw. When I heard the recordings of the Anglo executives it struck me that if half the people on the calls were women there would have been a completely different conversation.



Really? I'm not so sure... people said similar things about Noirin O'Sullivan just because of her gender, she would somehow be different to Martin Callinan, I observed no practical difference. What about Theresa May & David Cameron?

One step I would be in favour of is the Massachusetts law to stop prospective employers asking about your current or previous salaries. If there is a historic pay gap, this sort of questioning perpetuates it.


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## Purple (10 Apr 2018)

Teresa May is like the last person in the building who didn't hear the fire alarm. I don't think she's a good example of anything positive, male or female. 


odyssey06 said:


> One step I would be in favour of is the Massachusetts law to stop prospective employers asking about your current or previous salaries. If there is a historic pay gap, this sort of questioning perpetuates it.


 I like that idea.


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## willyfones (10 Apr 2018)

The highest paid group working in London are Irish Women, earning more on average then men.. of course no one cares about this particular gender Pay gap. 
I don't agree with any form of positive discrimination based on sex,, I don't think for a second my daughter has less of a chance of earning more because she is female. 
She already has a clear advantage at school, girls now outperform boys now in most subjects..  the lack of 'hands on' subjects like metal work, ect. that is common in Germany and France is more or less non-existent here, 
so language-based subjects and an ability to carefully take notes and clearly wright reams of blurb favour female students. There are also a shocking lack of men working in the teaching profession 90% of primary school teachers are now female. 
70% secondary teachers are female.  Again, there is little concern about this gender gap in the media.

I fully support equal pay for both sexes,,same work same pay,,  but I think its a complex issue that seems to gloss over a few things


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