# transfering AVC into AVC PRSA



## television (25 Apr 2008)

I am thinking of opening a AVC PRSA with eagle star through labrokers.I have a AVC with MArsh through the TUI. How do I transfere this fund into my new PRSA


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## LDFerguson (25 Apr 2008)

Once you have the new AVC PRSA set up, contact Marsh and tell them you want to transfer your fund from the old to the new.  They'll send you the forms.


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## television (26 Apr 2008)

thanks for that answer LDferguson


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## HAL9000 (30 Apr 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> Once you have the new AVC PRSA set up, contact Marsh and tell them you want to transfer your fund from the old to the new. They'll send you the forms.


 
Hi LDFerguson
Do you know if the full value of the fund will be transferred or will Marsh apply some penalty for pulling out of their scheme.


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## television (30 Apr 2008)

I opened it in October so fund value small.


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## willbee (16 Jun 2008)

Hello Television,
I am a teacher also with an AVC with Marsh. Do you mind me asking, Why are you changing?


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## television (17 Jun 2008)

There charges are huge. For every 100 E you put in they invest 95 for you and pocket the rest (as well as a 1% management fee). There are companies where you can get 100% of money invested. This makes a huge difference over 30 years. From my calculation (50 grand or more) I have not actually changed yet becuase I am changing jobs in sept. Waiting until then. instead of having a AVC you will have to take out a PSRA AVC. from my reading exacly same as an AVC. The only problem is that you do not get advice as towhere to invest as you doit yourself. However there was another company who used to to work for marsh. they came to our school and told us that they have smaller charges than Marsh but you have to take out a prsa avc with them. Yes they have smaller charges but their still quite high. So  what I have done is talked to the guy from the alternative company to marsh asked him where he suggested investing the money and then used this advice to go through a discount broker. Such as ebrokers.another complication (miinor) is getting the tax sorted out but this is minor.


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## LDFerguson (18 Jun 2008)

television said:


> Yes they have smaller charges but their still quite high. So what I have done is talked to the guy from the alternative company to marsh asked him where he suggested investing the money and then used this advice to go through a discount broker.


 
Did you pay this guy a fee for his time and advice?


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## television (18 Jun 2008)

no. whats your reason for asking that question


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## LDFerguson (18 Jun 2008)

From your post above, it appears that you have deliberately wasted the time of the "other" broker you refer to, by seeking advice about where to invest the money, only to then transact the business through a discount broker.  You seem to be suggesting that willbee adopt a similar approach.  

If my interpretation of your posts is correct, I don't think it's a very nice thing to do.  Would you tell the broker up-front that you have no intention of actually transacting the business with him and are just looking for free advice?


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## television (18 Jun 2008)

okay fair point. And to be fair I had intended to go with him. the only reason I did not was that his charges were quite high, and at his meeting witha ll the staff he siad his charges were significanly reduced. the reality when i got talking to him was a small reduction.


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## LDFerguson (18 Jun 2008)

Thanks for clarifying.  I've no problem with people speaking to several advisors looking for the best deal.  I just wouldn't like to hear anyone promoting the idea that one should try to obtain free advice from one broker under false pretences and then transact the business with another.


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## Eggball (23 Jun 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> Thanks for clarifying.  I've no problem with people speaking to several advisors looking for the best deal.  I just wouldn't like to hear anyone promoting the idea that one should try to obtain free advice from one broker under false pretences and then transact the business with another.




Why not?  Don't brokers believe in the law of the jungle?


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## LDFerguson (24 Jun 2008)

Eggball said:


> Why not? Don't brokers believe in the law of the jungle?


 
I made my opinion clear in Post Number 10 above.


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## Eggball (24 Jun 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> I made my opinion clear in Post Number 10 above.




Okay.  My opinion is that I wouldn't have the slightest problem wasting the time of a broker by using him as a check against another.


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## LDFerguson (24 Jun 2008)

Eggball said:


> Okay. My opinion is that I wouldn't have the slightest problem wasting the time of a broker by using him as a check against another.


 
That's not what was being discussed in the original point.  The original point was about deliberately obtaining free advice from a broker about fund choices / investment strategies using false pretences, then transacting the business through an execution-only service.


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## willbee (25 Jun 2008)

Sorry folks but I'd like to get back to the origional post. After reading alot on AAM and other links on AVC's and PRSA's, I got the pack through LA brokers for the Eagle Star PRSA. I rang Marsh to enquire if I wanted to transfer all of my acummulated fund from my Marsh AVC (about 10K) to my Eagle Star PRSA would there be any transfer fees. The girl sounded bamboozled and has now given my details to their consultant who is going to ring me to enquire as to my reasons for moving. I was only making an enquiry. Aside from their high admin charges and fees already highlighted on this web-site, are there other reasons from anyone out there why I should move from TUI/Marsh to Eagle Star or another PRSA.


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## mula (26 Jun 2008)

willbee said:


> Sorry folks but I'd like to get back to the origional post. After reading alot on AAM and other links on AVC's and PRSA's, I got the pack through LA brokers for the Eagle Star PRSA. I rang Marsh to enquire if I wanted to transfer all of my acummulated fund from my Marsh AVC (about 10K) to my Eagle Star PRSA would there be any transfer fees. The girl sounded bamboozled and has now given my details to their consultant who is going to ring me to enquire as to my reasons for moving. I was only making an enquiry. Aside from their high admin charges and fees already highlighted on this web-site, are there other reasons from anyone out there why I should move from TUI/Marsh to Eagle Star or another PRSA.


 
it depends,

do you know enough to DIY it? if you do then i dont see any reason not to. all the info is available through your employer and online if your willing to do the research and educate yourself. on the other hand if you havent a clue about your superannuation now and are unlikely to keep up with the changes as they happen then you might be better off getting someone to advise you so it gets done right.

Using televisions method wont work in the long run for 2 reasons. firstly the guy he tapped for the advice is unlikely to waste his time again and secondly you'll run out of guys/girls to call as there are very few companies advising on the superannuation aswell as avcs and even fewer that are any good.

mula


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## willbee (26 Jun 2008)

Ok Mula, I take your point, but there are '*Default investment Strategy' *as an available option on the Eagle Star PRSA form that would move the fund accordingly as it would mature over the years. At worse would this be ok as opposed to paying the high charges to Marsh over lets say, 20 years. What would you advise???.

By the way when I rang Labrokers Helpline to get advice on a query filling out the form I found 'John' most helpful.


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## television (26 Jun 2008)

willbee your doing all the right things. Default is where i was going too. Keep me posted and well done.


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## television (26 Jun 2008)

mula said:


> it depends,
> all the info is available through your employer and. mula


 
What do you mean avalible through your employer???


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## mula (27 Jun 2008)

television said:


> What do you mean avalible through your employer???


 
your employer ie dept of ed or vec


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## willbee (27 Jun 2008)

mula said:


> it depends,
> 
> do you know enough to DIY it? if you do then i dont see any reason not to. all the info is available through your employer and online if your willing to do the research and educate yourself. mula


 
I have a lot of research done on PRSA's and AVC's and would love to DIY it, but as regards swopping and changing my investment from fund to fund, depending on which would be performing better where could I get that info from on a regular basis???, 

I think what Television is saying is that the employer (Department or VEC) certainly would not have that info and does n't have to.


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## willbee (11 Jul 2008)

Ok folks, just and update on my situation, I was onto my Marsh Adviser again today about changing my AVC to an Eagle Star PRSA AVC, the reason? because of their high charges already well covered on AAM. He said their would be no charge only a "*Market Value Adjustment" *charge, but he did n't get into how much? What is this and how much could it be? My fund would be in the region of €9000.


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## GSheehy (11 Jul 2008)

Hi willbee,

'Marc' has an excellent post here http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=664750&postcount=1 on with profit funds and it covers 'MVAs' abourt half way down the page.


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## willbee (15 Jul 2008)

Ok, a further update I got onto Marsh today again about the current rate for *MVA,* My adviser told me it was 13% and did not recommend to move the fund while there was MVA. Thats 13% of €9000? How long might period this last? Can I still decide to freeze my contributions to the Marsh AVC and start up a PRSA Avc  with Eagle Star?


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## television (15 Jul 2008)

unbelievable, I would suggest to you that you look carefully into this 13% business. sounds very high.


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## willbee (16 Jul 2008)

Please, tell me where can I find out such info??? I thought this is a standard charge common with all avc's that would be switched, or is it meant to be a deterent from moving from one avc provider to another?


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## television (16 Jul 2008)

maybe it is i just dont know but how exaclty do they justify this, perhaps ask LDferguson i,e message him??


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## willbee (6 Aug 2008)

Further update, after looking into it alot of detail and using alot of info from AAM website, (the best website for sourcing information of all), I've decided I will be freezing my AVC with Marsh. Because of the Market Value adjustment which is now gone up to 19% since July, I would be shooting myself in the foot if transfered the fund. Instead I will be continuing my contributions with an Eagle Star PRSA, Balanced Performance and/or Managed fund, claiming the PRSI and Tax relief myself. I spoke to the Marsh Rep. and put it to him about all the charges on contributions they were charging compared to a standalone prsa/avc, he had no answers for me. Thank God I am still relative young, and I have n't lost toooo much to Marsh. Does anyone have any comments before I take the plunge!!!


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## television (6 Aug 2008)

So what you are doing is 

1. leaving your existing fund with marsh but not paying in any more
2. creating a prsa avc with egal star

Am I right?


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## willbee (6 Aug 2008)

That is exactly correct!


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## television (6 Aug 2008)

What implication will that have for you when you try to get the money out of Marsh?


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## willbee (6 Aug 2008)

television said:


> What implication will that have for you when you try to get the money out of Marsh?


 
I cant take the money out, I will be leaving the fund (around €9000) in Marsh (Secured Perfrormance Fund) until retirement. I can still contribute to it again if desirable. However after asking the Marsh Rep., he told me that I can, draw down all of it in retirement i.e. maximise my Tax free lump sum and then increase my pension or have the ARF option. So I am happy enough with that. Once you contribute to any AVC you cant get the money back anyway until you retire.


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## television (6 Aug 2008)

yes but will they charge you a yearly fee for holding the fund?


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## willbee (6 Aug 2008)

television said:


> yes but will they charge you a yearly fee for holding the fund?


I am assuming they will keep charging tha Administration fee, of 1% but if the fund keeps growing by even a small amount it should sustain that. The other option is to withdraw all of the fund  (around €9000) and be deducted the *Market Value Adjustment of 19%* and be finished with them, but that would mean around €1710 down the tube. What would *you* do???????


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## television (7 Aug 2008)

one per cent of nine grand over forty years is that 3600 and thats not taking into account the compounding of your money. Or am I missong something


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## willbee (7 Aug 2008)

television said:


> one per cent of nine grand over forty years is that 3600 and thats not taking into account the compounding of your money. Or am I missong something


 
Well From now until I intend to retire would be 20 yrs or there abouts, so that works out at around €1800, so it is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, as they say, but its a good point you make, thanks. If the *MVA* drops from 19% in the future, I'll be ready to withdraw then.


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## television (7 Aug 2008)

As your nine grand increases if your fund increases then the one percent of that figure becomes greater. Id say take the hit and take your money out of there and transfere it to your new fund. Of course Im no expert. would really appreciate if you kept me updated.


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## willbee (7 Aug 2008)

Will do, Television, I am a TUI member myself and am totally p***ed withthe union and they way they have treated their members.


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## television (8 Aug 2008)

willbee said:


> Will do, Television, I am a TUI member myself and am totally p***ed withthe union and they way they have treated their members.


 
We have ourselves to blame if we dont look into these things carefully. If increadable thre unions back blatently uncompetitive groups to run the AVC.


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