# What is the difference between "Land Registry" & "Registry of Deeds"?



## ajapale (8 Jun 2010)

What is the difference between "Land Registry" & "Registry of Deeds"? 

This has often perplexed me. I dont have any ongoing land transactions at present so consulting a solr is not an option.

Specifically does a different entity manage the alternative systems?

What is the history of the two schemes?

Do both schemes have folios and plans (maps).

Finally did McCarthy of an bord snip nua miss the weird little historical anomoly?


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## Vanilla (8 Jun 2010)

_The land registry is the old name for the Property Registration Authority of Ireland. So we used to call the title registered in the PRAI  'land registry title'. _

_Land Registry title is a government guaranteed title, it is the registration of ownership of land which is registered with a central authority on a mapping basis. So when land is transferred, a map must accompany any land divisions and therefore the new owners details are registered with the PRAI. Only land registry title has folio maps and folio numbers. Over 90% of the land mass of Ireland is land registry._

_The other type of title is 'Registry of Deeds' title or 'unregistered title'. In this kind of title it is the deed of 'transfer' which is registered. It does not need to be accompanied by a map, although it often is where subdivided. This is registered in the Registry of Deeds office. So if you have a registry of deeds title you will have a bunch of old title deeds, showing the transfers or conveyances or leases etc all the way back along. Commonly such titles will date back to around the turn of the last century, although what we call a good root of title may only go back 40 years. This title cannot be searched by map._

_Compulsory registration means that unregistered title is now compulsarily registrable in the PRAI whenever there is a transfer for value. This has been brought in in many counties and will eventually go country wide._


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## Padraigb (8 Jun 2010)

Useful post, Vanilla, thank you.

I kinda knew, but it's nice to have things set out so clearly.


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## j26 (9 Jun 2010)

The Land Registry and Registry of Deeds are in effect constituent offices of the Property Registration Authority. They are mutually exclusive registration systems of title to land (not to the land itself - it is possible for there to be several different titles to the same piece of land e.g the freehold interest, and leases, sub-leases etc)

The difference between the systems is best explained by saying that the Registry of Deeds registers the existence of a deed, while the Land Registry registers its effect. 
What this means is;

With a Land Registry title, the state has read the title and has determined that the person registered as owner is the legal owner of the property.  It keeps the deeds as proof of what it has done. The Registry of Deeds merely says that a deed exists that claims to relate to the property, but if you want to see the effect of the deed you will have to read it yourself.  The Registry of Deeds does not keep the deed, merely an edited copy of it, called a memorial, so you need to get that deed from the person who has custody of it. 

Land Registry title is backed by a State guarantee, while Registry of Deeds is not. 

To prove that you are the owner of property in Land Registry you only need to show a copy of the folio on which you are registered and a map shows the extent of the property,  whereas with Registry of Deeds you need to provide the purchaser with the title deeds going back into history (to a good root) and allow the purchasers solicitor to read them
to see if you actually do own it, and you need to interpret the maps on the deeds to see what property you actually own.  This can get very complex in urban areas, especially when the maps are not of great quality.

The history of the two Registries is a product of Irish history of colonisation and land agitation.  The Registry of Deeds was created in 1708 by Queen Anne as a means of recording the legal priority of deeds which would have an effect in the result of a dispute over ownership, and is one of the oldest State institutions in the country.  At the time there were very few land owners in the country, being primarily large landowners, so the system worked fine.  The Land Registry came into existence in 1892 to as a result of the decades of land agitation which culminated in the Land Purchase Acts.  With the vesting of land in small farmers from the landlords by the Land Commission, it was clear that the Registry of Deeds system would become so complex as to be useless, so a system devised in Australia in the 19th Century by Irishman Robert Torrens was adopted here to provide a simpler system of registration. This is basically the same system as is used today, and it is the system used in many countries throughout the world.  Because the Land Registry was originally designed as a system for vesting agricultural land, the result is that much of the land in the old urban centres remains as Registy of Deeds title. 

Government policy is to move all titles in the country to the Land Registry, and to eventually shut down the Registry of Deeds.  To this end, fees for "first registration" (the process of converting a Registry of Deeds title to a Land Registry title) are low, and compulsory registration is gradually being extended across the country.  At this point all land in the country is covered by compulsory registration except for land in Dublin and Cork, and they will eventually become compulsorily registerable.  The problem is that given the nature of land, the process will take many years to achieve.


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## Molli (20 May 2013)

Just found this old thread as I need a bit of info please.

My son purchased a house a few years back and part of the garden is registered with the land registry and the rest with registry of deeds. Seems strange to me anyway. 

Does anybody have any experience of this and how it can be all registered on one lot and is this an expensive thing to do?


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## mf1 (21 May 2013)

"My son purchased a house a few years back and part of the garden is registered with the land registry and the rest with registry of deeds. Seems strange to me anyway. "

Its not strange. 

"Does anybody have any experience of this and how it can be all registered on one lot and is this an expensive thing to do? "

It is probably a perfectly acceptable title. He does not need to do anything. If he wants to incur expense, he could go for first registration of the unregistered title but there probably is no need. 

When, and if, he ever sells it will be for the purchaser to register the unregistered title. 

mf


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## Molli (21 May 2013)

Thanks mf1 He eventually will be selling. I thought it might be more straightforward if all was registered together.


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## WizardDr (21 May 2013)

Folks - very useful posts demostrating the width of cpontributors knowledge on whats actually difficult enough conecptual matters. The only additional comment is that the Land Registry goes back to late 19th Century and the compulosry registartion only happened recently. Such pacy progress isn't exceptional in Ireland !


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## murphaph (30 May 2013)

My father passed away a few years ago and left some registry of deeds property in south Dublin. We are likely going to convey that property this year to the beneficiaries (my brother and I). Will we need to convert it to Land Registry? (I like this idea...to "tidy it up" so to speak).


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## Vanilla (30 May 2013)

No, you only have to do a First Registration on the first sale for market value. So on an inheritance or voluntary conveyance it is not necessary. You can do it if you want and it will certainly be an issue on the next sale so some people might prefer to do it. If the title is perfect, I possibly wouldnt, but if it could do with a bit of perfecting, then it might be recommended.


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## murphaph (31 May 2013)

Thanks Vanilla. Will ask our solicitor what he reckons then.


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