# "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?



## cindilu

Hello,

My husband is self-employed and is in his late 40's.  We took out two policies with Combined Insurance which pays him if he has a long term illness or is in the hospital for a long time.  We thought this was a good idea a few years ago but since then the reps come back every six months or so trying to sell us more insurance that we don't think we need and don't want.  Sometimes it seems that they are using scare tactics to encourage us to sign up for more insurance.  

Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with this company?  Any advice or recommendations on other companies?

My biggest pet peeve with them so far is that they told us we could write the insurance off as a business expense so we bought the insurance then our accountant said we could not write it off.

I would love to get something comparable with another company if the price is right.


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## RS2K

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*

I'm not sure tbh. (will check) They direct sell by banging on doors and pestering and badgering people into signing a proposal.

The lowest form of life in relation to financial advice imho.


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## cindilu

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*

Thanks for your input, folks.  I think I'll try a broker.  FYI, Combined offer "income protection" type insurance to subsidize your medical insurance.  While the medical insurance will pay the hospital bill, Combined policies will pay you a certain income while you are out of work.  Haven't been really happy with them, tho.


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## mula

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*



cindilu said:


> Thanks for your input, folks. I think I'll try a broker. FYI, Combined offer "income protection" type insurance to subsidize your medical insurance. While the medical insurance will pay the hospital bill, Combined policies will pay you a certain income while you are out of work. Haven't been really happy with them, tho.


stay well clear of combined  go to a decent broker as recommended above.


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## ajapale

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*

Combined Insurance Company of Europe Limited.



> Welcome to Combined Insurance
> 
> Since 1919, Combined has specialised in bringing affordable,                      quality insurance products to individuals and families - and                      currently provides supplemental disability, accident, health                      and life cover to 5 million policyholders.
> 
> Combined is the                      largest consumer insurance underwriting company of *Aon Corporation*,                      the world's premier insurance brokerage, consulting services                      and consumer insurance underwriting organisation.
> 
> *Combined Insurance Company of Europe Limited is regulated                      by the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority.
> 
> * *Head Office:*
> Merrion House, Merrion Road, Dublin 4.
> Telephone: 01 2696522 Facsimile: 01 2838585.
> 
> 
> 
> *Customer Service*
> At Combined, we understand that planning for your family's protection                is your top priority so we've made it ours. Our commitment to quality                is not simply through our products but also to the service we aim                to provide you as our valued customer. We are continually reviewing                systems, programmes and procedures that will help us to serve you                better for years to come.
> We have a dedicated team of Customer Service advisers available                to assist you Monday to Friday between 9am and 5pm (except bank                holidays). You can contact us by calling 01 2696522


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## F. Kruger

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

If you want a lesson in 'salesmanship' and in how to overcome objections, invite a representative to visit you.


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## finegan1

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*

Totally agree.  My husband is plagued by this crowd.  They are so annoying and always say you need MORE MORE every time they visit.  AVOID


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## antoinolacht

*Re: Advice on Combined Insurance?*

What is the rule in Ireland on these guys? Is it legal to sell insurance door-to-door, or do you have to be referred (I thought there had to be a referral)?


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## Bedlam

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Strange to see that Combined (a direct sales operation) is owned by one of the country's largest Insurance Brokers ... AON


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## Johnny1

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



cindilu said:


> Hello,
> 
> My husband is self-employed and is in his late 40's. We took out two policies with Combined Insurance which pays him if he has a long term illness or is in the hospital for a long time. We thought this was a good idea a few years ago but since then the reps come back every six months or so trying to sell us more insurance that we don't think we need and don't want. Sometimes it seems that they are using scare tactics to encourage us to sign up for more insurance.
> 
> Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with this company? Any advice or recommendations on other companies?
> 
> My biggest pet peeve with them so far is that they told us we could write the insurance off as a business expense so we bought the insurance then our accountant said we could not write it off.
> 
> I would love to get something comparable with another company if the price is right.


I have been hunting this crowd from my door for the last 17 years I got insurance from them a few times only to cancel it shortly after and they still come the last time they called was a few weeks ago 2 of them one was a lovely sweet talking blonde that wanted to get her foot inside the door I kept them outside in the cold until they finally got the message and left. They never send the same person twice. They will start by telling you how much a month you will get for a cost of only a few cent a day and it can be wrote off against tax which is a new line. I keep telling them that if their insurance is that good then why do they have to call from door to door to sell it? it should sell itself with an advertisement. Common sense will tell you that when you subscribe that you are paying for all their expenses. I know for a fact that they will use every trick in the book when you make a claim such as (you are a day late with your claim) (your policy doesn't cover that) and many more. Take my advice stay away from them.


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## Brendan Burgess

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I seem to remember some years ago that the Annual REport on insurance showed that their claims to premium ratio was ridiculously low, something like 20%. 

Brendan


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## barryl

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Avoid this company,the real  rules on their policies are to be found in the small print.They may well be regulated in Ireland as stated above,but so are the moneylenders that charge huge rates to  and target the poor people of Ireland


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## SeanA

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Life companies need to contact you within a certain period, I think 6 months of the last time they spoke to you otherwise it is considered a 'cold call', which isn't allowed when selling certain policies. If it was me I would raise the question with them about the premium being tax deductible, I'm sure there are rules against this. Definitely talk to a broker, maybe even two just to compare what they have to say, you can get one from http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/insurance.html
A lot of these brokers are just interested in meeting targets and will do anything to met there. Also be careful of the cover provided, why did you need two policies, was one not enough, or am I misunderstanding you was it one each?


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## Ravima

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

another way to get rid of the salesman, is to invite him in, ply him  with tea/coffee, express great interest and when completing the form ,mention that your work involves explosives, and your hobbies include parachuting, mountaineering with ropes and guyr and deep sea diving. Also mention that you have a bad back and that your previous insurer said you were uninsurable after paying seven claims, so you are thrilled to see him and take out a further policy!!  

then get a stopwatch and see how fast he runs to the car.


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## Brendan Burgess

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Ravima

Have you tried this approach with the guys from Combined?  I think it might work with others, but you might still end up taking out a policy with combined.

Brendan


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## Ravima

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

no.

neighbours of mine working in a quarry took out policies. there was an accident in the quarry.................................. 

I decided thereafter not to do business with them.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



Brendan said:


> I seem to remember some years ago that the Annual REport on insurance showed that their claims to premium ratio was ridiculously low, something like 20%.


Sorry - can you explain what this means and why it is good (or bad?)?


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## Johnny1

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



ClubMan said:


> Sorry - can you explain what this means and why it is good (or bad?)?


Claims to premium ratio 20% it's easy to explain eg. they pay out €20 in claims for every €100 they get in premiums which is very good news for them in other words they end up keeping €80 out of every €100 paid to them.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Thanks for that.


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## lopin10

*Combined Insurance*

A rep came to me selling Combined insurance last Friday. Can anbody advise me regarding this company and there products. The sales person was looking for almost €900 for a hospital policy


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## RS2K

*Re: Combined Insurance*

They are both utter rubbish. Go consult an independent broker.


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## Easyriderait

*Re: Combined Insurance*

I know alot about this company.  Just a few points to mention:

1.  Firstly, their policies *ARE* tax deductable - but if you deduct it from your tax bill, you will pay tax on any money they pay you. Therefore, your accountant will tell you its not worth your while writing it off against tax.

2. Secondly, they are the only Insurance company in Ireland left with a licence to cold call your house/business/club. Due to new financial regulations, they now have to announce who they are at the door. If they don't do that - they are breeching regulations. Place a call to the regulator and the company with the reps name - this will sort them out.

3. Now, the financial regulator has stated that an insurance policy is only as good as your knowledge of the policy - this is the tactic used by these people to call on you every couple of months - to review your benefits(and sell you more). If you are a customer of theirs, and you do not wish to purchase any more insurance - call their office in Dublin and ask to put a calling instruction on your account. i.e. *Do Not Call* or *Appointment Only*.  This way, nobody can knock on your door!!

4. As for payment of claims - they say you have to inform them of the accident within 30 days. The regulator has said that all claims can be handled upto 365 days from event. Don't put up with their bullsh!t.


5. According to the Central Statistics office their are 14 accident providers in Ireland offering Personal Accident Cover. In 2006, the 14 providers paid out €36,000,000.00 in claims. Of this, Combined Insurance paid out over €26,000,000.00. That works out at 72%. Thats not too bad...


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## RS2K

*Re: Combined Insurance*



Easyriderait said:


> I know alot about this company.  Just a few points to mention:
> 
> 1.  Firstly, their policies *ARE* tax deductable - but if you deduct it from your tax bill, you will pay tax on any money they pay you. Therefore, your accountant will tell you its not worth your while writing it off against tax.
> 
> 2. Secondly, they are the only Insurance company in Ireland left with a licence to cold call your house/business/club. Due to new financial regulations, they now have to announce who they are at the door. If they don't do that - they are breeching regulations. Place a call to the regulator and the company with the reps name - this will sort them out.
> 
> 3. Now, the financial regulator has stated that an insurance policy is only as good as your knowledge of the policy - this is the tactic used by these people to call on you every couple of months - to review your benefits(and sell you more). If you are a customer of theirs, and you do not wish to purchase any more insurance - call their office in Dublin and ask to put a calling instruction on your account. i.e. *Do Not Call* or *Appointment Only*.  This way, nobody can knock on your door!!
> 
> 4. As for payment of claims - they say you have to inform them of the accident within 30 days. The regulator has said that all claims can be handled upto 365 days from event. Don't put up with their bullsh!t.
> 
> 
> 5. According to the Central Statistics office their are 14 accident providers in Ireland offering Personal Accident Cover. In 2006, the 14 providers paid out €36,000,000.00 in claims. Of this, Combined Insurance paid out over €26,000,000.00. That works out at 72%. Thats not too bad...



Hmmm. I'd take issue with a few of your points.

1/. Some of their policies may be tax deductable, subject to the normal terms and conditions. I checked their website, but surprise surpise they have no contract details on there. Their policies  however are listed as accident and health care. Accident policies cannot qualify for tax relief.

2/. I can see no special cold calling authorisation for this Co. I've checked IFSRA's website.

3/. My personal view is that a rep. of Combined, or anyone else's tied agent
for that matter, calling regularly to simply sell additional product to unsuspecting and probably uninformed consumers is a bad idea. How can the advice being given be of any worth? What if the products are awful value?


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## Easyriderait

*Re: Combined Insurance*



RS2K said:


> Hmmm. I'd take issue with a few of your points.
> 
> 1/. Some of their policies may be tax deductable, subject to the normal terms and conditions. I checked their website, but surprise surpise they have no contract details on there. Their policies  however are listed as accident and health care. Accident policies cannot qualify for tax relief.
> 
> 2/. I can see no special cold calling authorisation for this Co. I've checked IFSRA's website.
> 
> 3/. My personal view is that a rep. of Combined, or anyone else's tied agent
> for that matter, calling regularly to simply sell additional product to unsuspecting and probably uninformed consumers is a bad idea. How can the advice being given be of any worth? What if the products are awful value?



Just for the record - I don't like their sales tactics - very pushy.  But at the end of the day, these guys jobs are to sell - and some of them do it quite well.

Furthermore - as long as ISFRA allow Insurance companies to cold call - this practice will continue.  There is a box on their application forms that a customer can tick if they do not wish to be offered further cover.  This is common on anything you sign upto today.  This is often overlooked by the consumer - Buyer Beware.

As for value for money - they offer products that simply can't be beaten on price for coverage provided.  They are like ronseal - they do exactly what they say they do.  If it was anyother way, the regulator simply wouldn't let them sell their products in this country!!


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## RS2K

*Re: Combined Insurance*



Easyriderait said:


> Just for the record - I don't like their sales tactics - very pushy.  But at the end of the day, these guys jobs are to sell - and some of them do it quite well.
> 
> Furthermore - as long as ISFRA allow Insurance companies to cold call - this practice will continue.  There is a box on their application forms that a customer can tick if they do not wish to be offered further cover.  This is common on anything you sign upto today.  This is often overlooked by the consumer - Buyer Beware.
> 
> As for value for money - they offer products that simply can't be beaten on price for coverage provided.  They are like ronseal - they do exactly what they say they do.  If it was anyother way, the regulator simply wouldn't let them sell their products in this country!!



The pushy sales guys may do well, but what about the consumers?

Cold calling is not allowed afaik. I'll look up the code of practice later on to confirm. Assuming I'm right do these guys just openly flout the law?

Value for money. What do you base your claim on? Door to door Insurance sales, and premium collection is a very expensive way to transact business. All other things being the same, value for money should be inferior.


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## Easyriderait

*Re: Combined Insurance*



RS2K said:


> The pushy sales guys may do well, but what about the consumers?
> 
> Cold calling is not allowed afaik. I'll look up the code of practice later on to confirm. Assuming I'm right do these guys just openly flout the law?
> 
> Value for money. What do you base your claim on? Door to door Insurance sales, and premium collection is a very expensive way to transact business. All other things being the same, value for money should be inferior.




As far as consumers go, the figures speak for themselves:
In 2006, the 14 providers paid out over €36,000,000 in the 26 counties.  Combined paid €26,000,000 of this.

I think that you'll find that cold calling is allowed, although the regulator will probably phase this out in the next couple of years.  Therefore they are not breaking any laws.

These guys are commission only based.  95% of premiums are collected by direct debit.  The other 5% are collected through whats referred to as live renewal and the commission on this is non existant.

You won't find them advertising on the tv, papers, mailshot, etc - this coupled with the fact that their sales force are commission only, means that they minimise the cost and are therefore able to provide a very competitive product.

I have my own reasons to dislike this company.  You seem to be very anti-Combined.  Why is this?  Are you a former customer? Employee? IFA?


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## colmbie

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I know this company well. They sell 2 types of policies: Accident and Sickness

You claim for accidents on your accident policies and sickness on your sickness poliices...SIMPLE!

You CANNOT claim tax as their policies are not termed as "Permanent Health Care" policies. Some people claim the premiums as a legitimate business expense.

If you're making a claim you have "30 days or any reasonable period". If you're late, just call the office and they'll get you to write in with the details of the claim. If you're being up front with them, there'll usually be no problems with your claim. If you give them reason to be suspicious...

If you don't want reps to call to your house, call the office and ask to be put on the Do Not Call list. If a rep calls 21 days after that, call the office and make an official complaint.

If the reps are calling to your door, don't try to engage them in conversation, they're trained to turn most arguments into a sales pitch so just close the door in their face. I know this may seem rude but REMEMBER they're not your friend, they just want to make commission off your payments.

They are allowed to cold call but that will be changing soon when new regulations are put in place. 

They also ask your neighbours if they know anyone in the area that may be interested in buying insurance...which may be why they're calling to you.

If you've taken out policies with them, READ THE DOCUMENT and if you're unsure of anything CALL THE OFFICE. Possibly, a rep may have been a little "fuzzy" with the full details of the cover. This may be because they're under the impression you know your cover.

Normally, if they're calling to you to sell you cover again and again, you are taking out ADDITIONAL cover, your original policies remain in force. One of the signatures you sign when taking out policies is one that states you understand the level of cover you have and want more...BEWARE!

Check your bank for Direct Debits to CICE. If you have a number of them, call combined and ask for a list of all your policies.

If this list still leaves you confused, ask them to send out a Customer Care Rep to sit down with you, and go through all your policies in detail. 

Otherwise, if you can, call into their office in merrion Road, Dublin and one of the customer care staff will help you.

If you want to cancel your policies put it IN WRITING to BOTH your BANK and COMBINED and ask for written confirmation of the cancellation. You can also ask for a refund of any premiums paid in the 30 days prior to cancellation. if you don't ask...you probably won't get. 

If you don't receive the written confirmation from both your bank or combined, call to see if they got the letter. The postal service is not infallable and the letter may genuinely not have got to them. 

If you feel you were pushed into taking out the cover, you can also write in and cancel your policies within 30 days and get a full refund.

If you haven't read your policies you really are asking for trouble. Claiming ignorance of your cover or saying that the rep told you a different story is embarrassing... YOU'RE AN ADULT, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR KNOWING YOUR COVER!

Having said all this, I have dealt with combined in the past and they will sort out most problems quickly once you have provided them with the details.


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## Easyriderait

*Re: Combined Insurance*



RS2K said:


> I work in the business ok, I'm a Broker & Authorised Advisor. IFA is a UK term and not relevant here.
> 
> I've reviewed a few files and have come across Combined Ins. policies. In my experience they are very poor.
> 
> Commission hungry zero salary salespeople, with only 1 Co's products will sell because they have to in order to earn. Whether or not the product is suitable, well priced, comprehensive or otherwise, are all secondary issues to such a salesperson. Do you not agree?
> 
> I've checked and cold calling to individuals seems to be illegal as far as I can see.
> 
> I've also checked the IIF website, and can see no mention of the claims figures you mention. I find it hard to believe that Combined Ins. pay over 72% of total claims in the country. Please back up your statement. The information is not available from Combined's website either, as far as I can see.
> 
> Frankly it strikes me that you seem have an amount of knowledge on this Co. not normally available to the public. For this reason, I'd query your independence on the subject matter. Please clarify.
> 
> This website is widely read by many otherwise uninformed consumers, and I think it's justified that they are not misled in relation to Combined Ins. and their sales tactics, and products.
> 
> p.s. I've also reported this thread to the Moderators for reasons outlined above.




Firslty - Just to Clarify - I have worked for this company as a rep and an Area Sales Manager.  I no longer work for them and have no vested interest in the company.

I agree with your 1st point - but even going to a Financial adviser for Insurance is not what it seems - i.e. you do not sell policies from all companies including Cornmarket, Combined, Allied Dunbar, etc. - they have direct sales force.  Financial advisers get paid commission too - and it varies from company to company - so naturally you will try and steer consumer to a product where your commission is higher!!

As for their payouts, let me clarify - this info can be found in a blue book from ISFRA - sorry, I cannot remember the name of it, but if you phone ISFRA they can point you in the right direction.

Finally, their policies - i.e. their accident policy has only 3 exclusions - they do not discriminate against occupation, extreme sports, etc.  I thing you'll find that most accident providers will not insure you doing certain occupations/sports - this gives Combined an edge in my view.

P.s. - Can you clarify the point on cold-calling.  According to ISFRA - its perfectly legal???


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## RS2K

*Re: Combined Insurance*



Easyriderait said:


> Firslty - Just to Clarify - I have worked for this company as a rep and an Area Sales Manager.  I no longer work for them and have no vested interest in the company.
> 
> I agree with your 1st point - but even going to a Financial adviser for Insurance is not what it seems - i.e. you do not sell policies from all companies including Cornmarket, Combined, Allied Dunbar, etc. - they have direct sales force.  Financial advisers get paid commission too - and it varies from company to company - so naturally you will try and steer consumer to a product where your commission is higher!!
> 
> As for their payouts, let me clarify - this info can be found in a blue book from ISFRA - sorry, I cannot remember the name of it, but if you phone ISFRA they can point you in the right direction.
> 
> Finally, their policies - i.e. their accident policy has only 3 exclusions - they do not discriminate against occupation, extreme sports, etc.  I thing you'll find that most accident providers will not insure you doing certain occupations/sports - this gives Combined an edge in my view.
> 
> P.s. - Can you clarify the point on cold-calling.  According to ISFRA - its perfectly legal???



Your experience seems to be UK based. Fair enough, but it's a different market, but importantly with different regulation.

A "Best advise" principle applies here. Some brokers act on a fee basis also, with any commission earned being offset. Some clients best interests are served by advising them "do nothing". You also have to justify your "reasons why" you recommend a particular policy over any other. Commission cannot, on it's own, be one of them. So therefore I'd refute that point.    

I've checked IFSRA's webite. No sign of the info. I will check further though.

As regards the policies themselves, no details are available. It's impossible to comment therefore. There may or may not be merit in them.

My point on the direct salesmen still applies. If a client needed a pension for example, and had ample cover other than that, guess what they wouldn't get from a Combined Rep?


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## Easyriderait

*Re: Combined Insurance*



RS2K said:


> Your experience seems to be UK based. Fair enough, but it's a different market, but importantly with different regulation.
> 
> A "Best advise" principle applies here. Some brokers act on a fee basis also, with any commission earned being offset. Some clients best interests are served by advising them "do nothing". You also have to justify your "reasons why" you recommend a particular policy over any other. Commission cannot, on it's own, be one of them. So therefore I'd refute that point.
> 
> I've checked IFSRA's webite. No sign of the info. I will check further though.
> 
> As regards the policies themselves, no details are available. It's impossible to comment therefore. There may or may not be merit in them.
> 
> My point on the direct salesmen still applies. If a client needed a pension for example, and had ample cover other than that, guess what they wouldn't get from a Combined Rep?



Actually, my expierence is of both the UK and the Republic.

A Combined sales agent has to fill out a Demands and Needs Statement - like a simple Fact Find.  This asks questions of the Customer like - do you have any similar cover, do you have cover that pays from 1st day, etc.

If it's Impossible to comment on their policies, why then have you previously stated on this forum to stay clear of this Company???

My point on Financial advisers is that they typically advise customers to stay clear of companies like Combined - purely because they don't know the product and the Financial Adviser has nothing to gain by it - i.e. they will not recieve any payment for advising a client to take out one of these policies.


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## RS2K

*Re: Combined Insurance*

I see. Some of the references you've made on this thread are a little confused. This site deals with Ireland only incidentally.

All Combined Ins. policies quaify for tax relief - erm no they don't. IFA's, & Allied Dunbarr don't exist/operate here. Cornmarket are Brokers, not insurers. You referred to the CSO stats. covering personal accident claims. That has since become IFSRA's blue book (which doesn't exist afaik). I could go on but I've made my point I think, which is your posts are frequently factually inaccurate, and therefore potentially misleading.

A simple fact find can only provide simplistic answers, you've made a number of reasons for sale out of unique selling points. "They'll accept anyone" and "cover that pays from day 1". Are these reason enough? I think not. I've done a wee bit more digging and have found out that general Brokers can sell Combined Ins. products too. From one of those I found out that premiums are not guaranteed (reviewable annually) and that some policies stop paying after 12 months of a claim. No wonder they are so cheap. 

I commented on cases I reviewed. Older cases granted but the point is a valid one. I can't get info. on a current stuff. I wonder why? 

Lastly you made a quite damning statement "they offer products that simply can't be beaten on price for coverage provided". My question is how can you know that? IFSRA's authorisation for Tied Agents specifically prevents them from making comparisons with competing co's at the point of sale. As an ex. rep I suppose you'll just probably say "I knew this, but never mentioned it".

The reason for these replies is nothing personal, it's just I hate to see insurance improperly sold, which is exactly what I suspect a lot of these "high pressure" salesmen are doing daily.


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## Brendan Burgess

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Folks

When you want to reply, hit the Reply button, not the Quote button. 

If you hit the quote button, the entire post is reproduced.

Brendan


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## rinkh

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

My father took out a combined insurance policy years(c 10) ago with combined insurance.
The original premium was 207 pounds a year.
He is a farmer and would be on quite low income.
he is also now over 70 which cuts his benefit in half
It was a "sickness income policy","providing benefits for loss of time caused by sickness".
He was in hospital for 26 days. Was recovering for a further few weeks.
I have had to work on the farm and take time off from my own work to help out at home.
We recently got a cheque from combined for 100 euro.
This is a joke.
I didnt think something like this could be legal.
Deos anyone have any advise as to what to do.

also to easyriderait who says combined pay out 25,000000 a year should know that this means nothing unless you have further information on how much of a market share they have ie what their premium to payout rate is.

You can say my dad is stupid but first think of your parents and grandparents being approached by aggressive sales methods and i suspect very strongly outright lies.

any advise appreciated


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## RS2K

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Refer it to the Ombudsman rinkh.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



RS2K said:


> Refer it to the Ombudsman rinkh.


Do you mean the [broken link removed]? If so they you'll have to exhaust _CI's _complaints process and get a final response letter before the _FSO _will deal with it.


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## RS2K

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I'd assumed that had already happened ClubMan.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Fair enough. Just that some people here seem to recommend going straight to the _FSO_ without mentioning that they will only deal with complaints as a last resort.


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## rinkh

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Actually i havnt contacted the complaints dept.
My mom has contacted combined and they confirmed that he is only entitled to 100 euro.
I contacted them this morning asking for an up to date policy document and a breakdown of how they arrived at 100 euro.
Ill see where it geos from there.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Getting more info seems like a sensible idea. If there are grounds for complaint once you received these then make one (formally in writing). If, having exhausted the _CI _complaints process, you are still not happy then get a "final response" letter and take the matter to the _FSO_.


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## Rico

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

To be fair to Combined, the majority of the above grieviances seem to relate the manner of how the policies are sold ie door to door. There is little comment about the quality of the product for the price charged. I disagree with the view above that this is irrelevant. There are many products that are hard sell and there is huge element of sales with consumer products now. Most consumers are well informed and financial products are  heavily regulated. Alot of Insurance products are execellent value but you have to make sure you understand what you are buying. If it is complex product get advice but remember you have to pay for advice as with any other professional expertise. I would not totally disregard a product just because someone is using a hard sell.


----------



## RS2K

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I think you should re read the thread Rico.

Information on the products simply isn't available.


----------



## annR

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I don't know anything about Combined Insurance company but I do know that the best way to really annoy pushy sales reps is to waste their time.  If you have some time on your hands, invite them in for tea and play along before telling them to get lost.  Sales reps don't mind being told to get lost but they hate being led up the garden path, having their precious selling time wasted, and *then* told to get lost.  They'll have lost commission money because of you.  Word will spread and they'll avoid you like the plague.


----------



## Nicki38

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Hi, 

As far as combined insurance products go I cannot comment, they may be fantastic or they may be poor, thankfully we have never had to claim from them. However what I will say it that the one way to put anyone off a product, and I think I speak for most people, is hard selling. Its drips desperation! My husband had a combined insurance policy for years and never heard anything form them, then six months ago someone turns up at the door from CI just checking how things are going. He was a good Sales man I'll give him that as he managed to sell my husband another policy. My husbands understanding was that he was upgrading, and he was then told to cancel his original policy. Then another salesman from Combined Insurance turns up on the door last night pretty much demanding to see my husband when I said he wasn't available. He then came back and started talking to my husband. My husband told him that he had upgraded a few months back and cancelled his old policy, this Salesman informs him that in fact the previous Sales Rep wasn't telling him the truth and he is only covered for such and such rather than such and such, and in facte this new upgrade is actually of a lower standard that the previous policy.  His very words where 'you can't blame though he's only started with the company.'  Now what these people are trying to achieve seems to be commission everytime they call, any way possible, which hey its Sales what do we expect. But one thing for sure is that they will not be coming into my home again, selling, asking for personal details and making us feel bad just cause we don't jump at the chance of another exciting policy.


----------



## Bedlam

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I am looking at an accident policy from them and have been told it will cover parachute jumps. Looking at the policy conditions it doesn't say it does cover it but equally it makes no reference to it not being covered either.......any comments / opinions?


----------



## Ed054

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Bedlam,
For your interest AON sold Combined earlier this year.
Did'nt want them damaging their reputation methinks!


----------



## wellad

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I was advised that personal accident is not always the best insurance. The benefits only last for a couple of years. Not much good if you break your back!! I would see if you can get income protection from Friends first or someone else like that.


----------



## shankly1977

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

i recently read they were sold for nearly 3 billion us dollars to ace insurance which will make them the biggest accident and sickness ins company in the world. a friend of mine recently got paid 150000 from them so they cant be too bad


----------



## COLAKO

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

You can write these things off as a business expense if they're set up in the correct way. I suspect that whoever sold the policies set them up incorrectly or advised you incorrectly. Obviously it depends on the type of policies......If it's income protection, you can claim tax relief, life cover set up under what they call pension term assurance can also be claimed back, the word pension is misleading but it simply means a pension set up with just life assurance. Serious illness or specified illness cannot be offset against your tax bill. Dont get confused bewteen serious illness and income protection. Serious illness pays a lump sum if you contract one of about 30 illnesses. Income protection pays a portion of your salary if you cannot work due to illness of injury. Normal waiting period is around 13 to 26 weeks..........

Go to an independent broker for advise. They will noty charge a fee to look at your policies and make a recomendation or give advise. Nauturaly they would like to have your business and will profit from commission paid by the life companies...that's why the advise is free but in most cases it's good advise and shouldnt be devalued because it's free!

C



cindilu said:


> Hello,
> 
> My husband is self-employed and is in his late 40's. We took out two policies with Combined Insurance which pays him if he has a long term illness or is in the hospital for a long time. We thought this was a good idea a few years ago but since then the reps come back every six months or so trying to sell us more insurance that we don't think we need and don't want. Sometimes it seems that they are using scare tactics to encourage us to sign up for more insurance.
> 
> Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with this company? Any advice or recommendations on other companies?
> 
> My biggest pet peeve with them so far is that they told us we could write the insurance off as a business expense so we bought the insurance then our accountant said we could not write it off.
> 
> I would love to get something comparable with another company if the price is right.


----------



## Rightly dun

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

I had a policy with Combined Insurance Company some years back and I can hear that sales pitch ringing in my ears. You will be covered on trains plans buses cars trams and so on the list was endless. Covered for anything and everything. I cut my finger off and had to spend sometime in hospital, tried to claim and got nothing. When the Rep called to my door for the renewal, I told him about it and he said that he would look into it. I have never seen anyone from that company ever again.

Stay clear of them, and as op said shut the door on their reps.


----------



## pela222

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

Hi everyone
If you are saying Combined is EVIL mistercristo means your work ethics is so low that where ever you are or will be working I hope I will never deal with you!! It is "AWFUL, AWFUL job" when you cant sell one of the best product in Ireland - I understand your helplessness. If somebody is not for sales will not last longer than 1-2 months in Combiend and that what happend with mistercristo!!! Find different job (not sales) and stop putting bull-**** on web sites.
I'm working for Combined for 2,5 years. Never missrepresented customer, never forced anybody to take insurance and still finished as no. 2 in All Ireland Combined ranking as Sales Rep in 2007, and no. 12 in 2008. Im proud working for them cos I belive in product im selling and I know presonaly at least 40-50 customers for who I wrote policy, who are very happy with cover they have - but they know what they have!.

Combined has 2 accident policies and 2 health (+ one critical illness plan).
In accident there are no restrictions what so ever (so everybody can have it - exept disabled people).
In health there are question (QQS slip) to see if customer can qualify for policy (so not everybody can have it).
In 2,5 years I dont know single customer who did not get paid form her/his policy *if his/her accident/sickness was covered *.
You have full information about all four Combined products on web www.combinedinsurance.ie but for good sake if you got sick and you have accident policy you will not get a penny from Combined (but show me company who will pay in this circumstances). 
Customers who complain about Combined very often dont know what cover they have. I will not jugde if it is representative fault (not explaining policy correctly) or customer fault (not reading what signing - all documents are left in home). It can be either way. The conclusion is that if customer knows what he have he will not complain he cant claim on policy. The reason reps are visiting customer every six months is to make sure customer know what he/she has and to show other plans Combined have - Thats the sales lads, thats how it works.
If you have any doubts about Combined go on *www.financialregulator.ie* Is it not the best source? I thing it is better than reading what unsuccessful and full of grief ex-representative of Combiend is writing!!!  Download *Insurance Statistic Review for 2007* [broken link removed] and you will find out in table 14 (Accident and Health Irish Insurance Market) that Combined is paying in Claims more than any other company in Ireland (€28,552K out of €79,069K in total - 35% of claims), that was achived colecting in premiums €72,359K out of €309,818K in total (23,2% of premiums). Do you sill think it is policy with out value. Any coments on figures. It is easy to say "I heard this.., I heard that..." but how to fight with figures made by Indepandant Goverment Body? Or is just financial regulator doing favour to Combined?
I will leave U with it.

Dont listen to BS cos it will lead you to nowhere
Kind regard
Piotr


----------



## 00-steels

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

yes piotr's description couldn't be any more true, I work for combined now almost 2 years and was no 2 last year in ireland with sales.
Its all down to good ethics and practices, from my experience its how the policy is sold at the start will determine how satisfied a customer will be, I have always sold mine with a good explanation and my claims giving out to satisfied customers have fell just short of 60,0000 last year, had i not sold the policies, It would be almost 60,000 euros less that financially dependent people would not have towards a better standard of living occuring from an illness.

for sour ex reps out there: if sales isn't your job never run down the company you couldn't sell in

reg Philip S.


----------



## cam mama

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*

We had combined insurance annoying us all week. They appear at houses business and especially with farmers. We found their approach very pushy, they wouldnt give us a business card or paper work to review at our leisure in order to make an informed choice by looking at other policies out there. The most was they would leave the paper work with us for the night and then they took it back when we didnt go with the policy. I am in my 30's and educated and i was being thrown numbers from every policy they had and it was confusing hense the reason to ask for paperwork to mull over it over a week or so.  She kept saying we are old school and we come to your house  andd set the policy up there and then so thats what makes them different etc and they wouldnt be bothering with internet or even dealing with the rep next week as she wouldnt give her contact number! 
my gut is they are too good to be true.


----------



## jackswift

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



annR said:


> I don't know anything about Combined Insurance company but I do know that the best way to really annoy pushy sales reps is to waste their time.  If you have some time on your hands, invite them in for tea and play along before telling them to get lost.  Sales reps don't mind being told to get lost but they hate being led up the garden path, having their precious selling time wasted, and *then* told to get lost.  They'll have lost commission money because of you.  Word will spread and they'll avoid you like the plague.


 Yes you are right you don't know anything about Combined Insurance because you could beat them from your door with a stick and they will send back another ejit in 6 months to get the same treatment.


----------



## martinf

I started a basic accident policy with this company in the 90's when I was a motorcyclist but never had a valid claim. I cancelled the policy when I gave up the bikes (leather never suited me) and yet they proceeded to hound me for months afterwards.

I eventually sat down with a young lady who rang my doorbell at 21:30 at night and before I knew what was happening, she was filling in forms. I was tired after a long day and should have told her to back off but I learned my lesson (or so I thought). I ended up with reps calling 3 or 4 times a year, trying to convince me that my cover was falling behind inflation and also advising to "cancel this one and buy that one".

In the end, I was paying close to €2500 per year for my cover. Accident Hospital, Accident home cover, Critical illness, Hospital sickness, Home sickness and god knows what else.

They use the same line to get in the door that it's just a service visit to go through the benefits you have on the account but their intention is to lighten your pocket. 

I spoke to a cousin who works for them (making a mint) and he told me a few tasty inside details (after I plied him with beer). It didnt make pleasant listening. 

I made a claim a few years ago on a home policy that would pay me if I was sick on a doctors note (was costing me nearly a grand) and they only sent me a cheque for €90 approx.

Poor value for money and I cancelled the lot.

They are STILL calling to my door. 

http://www.facebook.com/business/dashboard/#/pages/Hate-Combined-Insurance/268953964562



RS2K said:


> The lowest form of life in relation to financial advice imho.



I agree 100%.
The last guy that came was about 20 and told me he was in his first month with the company. He admitted that he had no qualification to be handing out advice about my financial wellbeing. Would you take financial advice from a kid who probably worked in Tesco's 2 months ago?(no offence meant).


----------



## peterdeegan

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

Googled this company because I was sick of being pestered and this site came up on the first page.
Not a ver good sign, me thinks.
I made a claim with this shower a few months ago because I was off work for a week with that chesty bug that was doing the rounds.
Missed 5 days in total, had to pay €60 to the doctor and another €32 for tablets but only got about €50 from this lot.
They said they dont pay for the first few days on the policy!!
Why not?? I was feckin sick and couldnt work. I jst ended up out of pocket so they can stuff it where the sun doesnt shine. I will box the head off the next eejit that rings my doorbell.


----------



## joanne alder

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

My Husband and I had a very large amount of money invested in these policies but we cancelled them all because of the way the sales people act when they call.
They dont seem to care about your needs and just want you to buy more, more, more.
They are using a form now that they claim will show you exactly what you need, and its endorsed by the financial regulator. 
The last girl who called was told that the cover was cancelled and she was given the reasons why, yet she still persisted in the same manner. 

We wasted tens of thousands of euro with combined insurance and wish them the worst possible luck for the future.


----------



## WEAQ

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

in same boat had 6 staff on this money spinner.cancelled over year ago still getting calls and even reps calling in.stay away !!!!!!!!


----------



## dryanshaw

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



Bedlam said:


> I am looking at an accident policy from them and have been told it will cover parachute jumps. Looking at the policy conditions it doesn't say it does cover it but equally it makes no reference to it not being covered either.......any comments / opinions?



It's most likely true.  A lot of Combined's current policies have only the major exclusions that every company has (such as "war or acts of war, declared or undeclared," and "intentionally self-inflicted injury.")  Most policies that you look at with other companies have a page to a page and a half of exclusion-after-exclusion-after-exclusion.  Combined pay for a lot of things that most companies will not.  During 911, Combined was one of the very few companies that paid under a lot of there policies


----------



## dryanshaw

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*



peterdeegan said:


> They said they dont pay for the first few days  on the policy!! Why not??



It's called a waiting period.  Which is surprising that they have it.  I work for the Canadian division of Combined and we don't have waiting periods on any product I sell.  Weird


----------



## dryanshaw

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



Johnny1 said:


> I have been hunting this crowd from my door for the last 17 years I got insurance from them a few times only to cancel it shortly after and they still come the last time they called was a few weeks ago 2 of them one was a lovely sweet talking blonde that wanted to get her foot inside the door I kept them outside in the cold until they finally got the message and left. They never send the same person twice. They will start by telling you how much a month you will get for a cost of only a few cent a day and it can be wrote off against tax which is a new line. I keep telling them that if their insurance is that good then why do they have to call from door to door to sell it? it should sell itself with an advertisement. Common sense will tell you that when you subscribe that you are paying for all their expenses. I know for a fact that they will use every trick in the book when you make a claim such as (you are a day late with your claim) (your policy doesn't cover that) and many more. Take my advice stay away from them.



The have never advertised.  They have never NEEDED to advertise. 

You are not paying for their expenses.  Agents are self-employed and have no salary (at least in the Canadian offices, where I work.) 

Their operating expenses are actually a lot lower then your average insurance company.  This is because they don't have many ostentatious office buildings. they usually have meeting offices (which, by the way, are paid out of the managers pockets, NOT the companies.) 

As far as the policies go, Combined's policies have far fewer exclusions than nearly all other companies.  To date, I have never seen a policy that has fewer exclusions. 

They give you plenty of time to claim, and if, for whatever reason, you cannot claim within that date, then you can often right a letter explaining why you couldn't, and the company will honor the claim (even though LEGALLY they are not obligated.)  My manager just dealt with a claim that was over a year and a half old, and the guy got paid.  And last night I was talking to another agent from another city about 2 1/2 or 3 hours away and he went back on a claim, wrote a letter, and a ladies getting paid for breast cancer that she had SEVEN YEARS AGO!  I can't see any other company paying for that. 

We visit our clients every six months (or so) so that we don't run into "your policy doesn't cover that."  If we're back showing you what policies you need to complete your protection and you say "yes," then you don't have to worry about it.


----------



## dryanshaw

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*



cindilu said:


> Hello,
> 
> My husband is self-employed and is in his late 40's.  We took out two policies with Combined Insurance which pays him if he has a long term illness or is in the hospital for a long time.  We thought this was a good idea a few years ago but since then the reps come back every six months or so trying to sell us more insurance that we don't think we need and don't want.  Sometimes it seems that they are using scare tactics to encourage us to sign up for more insurance.
> 
> Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with this company?  Any advice or recommendations on other companies?
> 
> My biggest pet peeve with them so far is that they told us we could write the insurance off as a business expense so we bought the insurance then our accountant said we could not write it off.
> 
> I would love to get something comparable with another company if the price is right.



The reps come back to review your coverage and, if it's not complete, to discuss the weak parts of your coverage.  It's their responsibility.  If they show you a section that you don't have, then you say "no," then it's not there fault that you aren't protected.  If you're happy with the current coverage, and don't wish to have an agent address your needs in the future, call customer service, tell them you're very dissatisfied with the way they've handled yourself, and you're happy with your current coverage, and do not wish for agents to visit you in the future.  Throw a few swears in there and say it in an angry manor, and they should place you on the "do not visit" list.  

To find something dollar-for-dollar comparable with another company is quite difficult.  I would recommend a company that's similar to us, except they visit there client very seldom, but they don't exist in Europe.


----------



## dryanshaw

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"?*



Brendan said:


> I seem to remember some years ago that the Annual REport on insurance showed that their claims to premium ratio was ridiculously low, something like 20%.
> 
> Brendan



 Sounds like a load of <bad language removed by moderator>.  But, I don't know, maybe it did used to be...doubt it, but maybe.  Now it's way higher, better than most, I think


----------



## mathepac

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

... deleted ...

The main problem I see with his posts is that it is unlikely he has any first-hand information about the role of the Financial Regulator here, cooling off periods for direct sales, European / Irish consumer protection legislation, etc.


----------



## Lulu123

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

A guy from this crowd knocked on my door at 8pm last night, looking to speak to the man that used to own my house (now deceased). 

This chap basically barged his way in, which was actually a little scary as my husband was out and I have 2 small kids, one of which was beside me.

He gave me the spiel....talked fast and incessantly and throwing figures and numbers out. Eventually,when he did let me talk I explained that I work for a broker and knew all about this crowd and their claims.

He showed me the regulator report which showed they payout about 5 times what AIG etc pay out per year.

After I insisted that I didnt want any cover, nor did anyone I know he asked me would I tell him which houses on the road had young families or if I had any friends which he could have the addresses of. This guy was really pushing so I asked him to leave asap. 

He ran out the door but I was left feeling that if I hadnt have known anything about insurance etc that he would have badgered me into signing up for one of these things.

Basically my advice too is to shut the door then minute they start speaking !


----------



## ajapale

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

Hi Lulu,

If you are involved in or associated with the business you need to declare your interest.

aj
moderator


----------



## martinf

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*

I am heading into their offices today to make a formal complaint.
One of their staff called me yesterday (SUNDAY!!) to inform me that he would be out my way this week doing customer care calls and which day would suit. 

I believe there is some way you can have your stored details removed from a companies database. Anybody know how you do it?


----------



## TreeTiger

You can have your name added to the National Directory Database Opt-Out Register - [broken link removed] on how to do it.


----------



## Complainer

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*



martinf said:


> I believe there is some way you can have your stored details removed from a companies database. Anybody know how you do it?


[broken link removed]


----------



## Mickser_52

I have just had a visit from representatives from this company. 
A man and woman rang the doorbell. They introduced themselves but when I asked their business the woman told me that if they could step inside they would tell me. 

Foolishly I let them in (as they could have been anyone). They then gave me the spiel , showing me a list of names of other people in the locality who had signed up. They then showed me a form to fill in. I remained non commital and they eventually left. I found the whole process suspicious and looked them up on the internet and found this post.

Three questions:
1. Were they breaking rules by not identify their business before inviting themselves inside?
2. If so, to whom can I complain?
3. Are they likely to return at some other time when my wife might be on her own and imply that I had in some way made a commitment?


----------



## Complainer

Mickser_52 said:


> showing me a list of names of other people in the locality who had signed up.


If this list was real, they broke Data Protection laws by showing it to you. I suspect it was fictional. Did you recognise anyone on the list?


----------



## Mickser_52

I'm not a local so I wouldn't know that many people. The names were like Seán McCarthy but there's a lot of them around here. I did not ask them for identification, as I should have, so it would be difficult to make a complaint without the individuals' names.


----------



## sun_sparks

*Re: Advice on "Combined Insurance Company"? Pushy "hard sell" sales tactics?*



Lulu123 said:


> A guy from this crowd knocked on my door at 8pm last night, looking to speak to the man that used to own my house (now deceased).
> 
> This chap basically barged his way in, which was actually a little scary as my husband was out and I have 2 small kids, one of which was beside me.
> 
> He gave me the spiel....talked fast and incessantly and throwing figures and numbers out. Eventually,when he did let me talk I explained that I work for a broker and knew all about this crowd and their claims.
> 
> He showed me the regulator report which showed they payout about 5 times what AIG etc pay out per year.
> 
> After I insisted that I didnt want any cover, nor did anyone I know he asked me would I tell him which houses on the road had young families or if I had any friends which he could have the addresses of. This guy was really pushing so I asked him to leave asap.
> 
> He ran out the door but I was left feeling that if I hadnt have known anything about insurance etc that he would have badgered me into signing up for one of these things.
> 
> Basically my advice too is to shut the door then minute they start speaking !


 
+1

I was googling this company as I had a visit from a young female sales rep yesterday, which left me perplexed as to their incredibly pushy sales technique and more than a little annoyed at the hard sell.

Basically, this girl rang the door, said she worked for Combined and asked had I heard about them before. When I said no, she asked could she go through what they were with me. Next thing I knew she was in my hall, commenting on toys in the front room (asking about my daughter) and walking toward my kitchen. At NO STAGE did I invite her in. Foolishly I should have just kicked her out, but let her prattle on about Accident Insurance, talk about the neighbour's son who lsot the tip of a finger (how true this is I don't know) and then got rid of her. Not before she offered to come back that evening.

I've no gripe with people going door-to-door; I'm well capable of listening to a speel and getting shot of them, but to basically PUSH her way in.

Is there any recourse to complaint? Is it not trespass if she hasn't been invited in or asked my permission to enter my house? 

I feel foolish even asking - I should have just turfed her out, I know!


----------



## Gabbi

Hi All! Just a quick note with some facts to clear things up about CICE (Combined Insurance) - coming from a former customer care agent:

- CICE is a Chicago based health BENEFIT insurance company (not traditional healthcare such as VHI etc.) that was recently spun-off from AON and currently belongs to ACE.
- Its policies largely represent the type of American insurance models that Obama is currently trying to change against the odds of huge resistance from these huge multinationals and their powerful lobbies
- CICE (formerly known as CICI) was set up in Ireland in 1976 and agents from 2 divisions - the health and the accident divisions, started selling policies door-to-door / cold calling
- the former sold so-called Full and HIP (hospital income) cover, each costing only a couple of quid and easy to sell
- the latter sold so called health care i.e. SIP (sickness income), SHIP (sickness hospitalization) and CRIP (critical "5") policies
- these latter policies are still sold today of which the Sickness Income policy is probably the only one that is any good at all, as it pays you money if you are sick at home in any way
- The accident policies today are called accident disability policy (ADP) and accident hospitalization (AHBP)
- premiums for both types are steadily on the rise and are also index-linked

Now to the organisation and their methods:

Basically the company founder, W. Clement Stone, believed in the pyramid and snowballing business model.

- CICE managers recruit unqualified people from the street through local ads and after a brief rudimentary training send them (completely reliant on their own means of transport) out to cold call door to door (often in accompaniment of an SAR) and so impersonate qualified _multi-agency intermediaries_, _authorized advisors_ and ultimately insurance brokers.
- Each greenhorn and unqualified agent then is sent the same battery of bills and threats coming from the ICCL (investor compensation Ireland) that brokers have to pay in order to practice their fully qualified professions.

- The pyramid system works in the following way: the agents are so-called ARs or area representatives, that report to SARs or senior area reps, that report to DARs or district area reps, that in turn report to the RAR or main regional rep.  
- the more premiums the smaller agents bring in, the more the higher level managers get paid boni by the company and so the knock on goes up the ladder...
- If an AR sells €5000 worth of premium in a given six monthly period, his SAR will receive a bonus of €15000. The AR him/herself receives nothing except approx. 100% commission i.e. €5000 in six months work.
- The ARs only receive commission and no basic salary, which explains the aggressive nature of their behavior to sell, by getting foot in the door of each house.
- An average AR clocks up approx. €200 of overheads and expenses per week through driving around designated areas trying to sell, and on average earns about €400 through comm. leaving approx. €200 to live on, of which he or she has to declare (-+ 20%) to the collector general at EOY
- CICE keep a so-called "retention account" for each AR where they "retain" some of AR's earnings just in case the AR runs off with customer premiums
- The promise of paying out what each AR is due from the retention account is rarely upheld as it is a so-called "legitimate" way for CICE to rope back in expenses incurred through reps wages.
- There is a high turn-over amongst reps as many leave as soon as they see through all the lies and promises of exorbitant earnings (coming from the managers desperate to recruit and so receive their boni).

So that's about the size of it with CICE.

Feel free to post me any questions if you are a customer and worried about your CICE policies.

I would be glad to be of assistance

Regards,

Gabbi

Oh, and I forgot to mention that CICE forbids the ARs (threatening them with "zero tolerance") to sell to members of other socio-ethnic or economic groups such as from the immigrant or Travelling community...

If you are being hounded by the reps you can call HQ in Merrion Road Dublin at 012696522 and demand that your address be taken from the call list.


----------



## Complainer

Gabbi said:


> Oh, and I forgot to mention that CICE forbids the ARs (threatening them with "zero tolerance") to sell to members of other socio-ethnic or economic groups such as from the immigrant or Travelling community...


Do you have this in writing?


----------



## martinf

dabombxx said:


> How did this go?????



The uninterested young lady behind the counter claimed that the reps are self employed and she has no control over them. 
I asked WHO had control and she said their District Rep does. 
I requested the number of the district rep who was in charge of my area and she refused point blank.
Saying it was a personal number!!
If the person is in business, surely they should have a public line?

The service from that company is a joke.


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## P-Anderson

A bloke came up to me last night outside my house and flashed ID from this crowd. 
Said he was in talking to my neighbours and they told him to come down and have a quick chat (which is total "" because I asked them this morning and they never seen the guy before). 
He started fishing for information in my driveway, checking out the van and giving it the aul "So are you still in the decorating business? How's things going?" ...etc

I told him I wasnt interested and he said it's free to look at it so I left him in the drive and brought my cup of coffee out (my tools were drying off out there anyway). He gave me the whole inside story in the most cheesy, game show host way you could imagine and I challenged him on everything he said. 

Why are you going door to door? Why no adverts in the paper, tv, radio?? 

In the end he got a bit too big for his boots and literally called me a bad parent for not wanting to protect my daughter financially. 
At that stage I told him there was two ways he could leave my property. 

He didnt choose the slap of a hammer. 

These guys are mickey mouse and I am going to avoid them.


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## angry

I have worked for this company and my best advice is stay well clear and go elsewhere the more you buy the more sales people you will have at your door from combined.  also the reason i left is i tried to claim myself and had numerous problems and never received payment they will do anything they can to get out of paying and will constantly hastle you at all hours.  Go Elsewhere,.


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## angry

I used to work for the company and left becuase of there bully boy tatics stay well clear they dont pay out


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## schnurbart

Hi I'm new here but I'll had my experience so far with Combined Insurance..

Some years ago I activated accident & health policies.  I'm self employed so I figured it made sense to have some income in the event of an accident or severe illness.

Anyway, in June this year I suffered a quite severe neck injury & am unable to do my job as a result.  So I filled in the claim form & sent it back to them at the beginning of last month.  I made several telephone queries as to the progress of my claim & was told that it would be sorted out within 20 days of their receipt of the claim form.....

Today I received a letter from them which I assumed was a cheque.  It was however, a letter telling me that my GP hadn't ticked one of the boxes on the original form I'd sent in & that this would need to be rectified before the claim could proceed.  So I rang them & asked exactly where the mistake was & not wanting to assume anything I asked how long it would now take to rectify this very small error & proceed with the claim........ I was told another 20 working days.  

I then explained that I felt this was very unreasonable but was told quite abruptly that this was the way these things were handled & that I'd just have to go to the back of the queue  like everybody else.  I explained that this was a ridiculous amount of time to sort something so simple & was told again very abrubtly that this was their system.

I went on to explain that when their sales rep took a cheque from me in my kitchen that one of the questions I'd asked him was the timescale in procesing claims & had been told 'immediately'.  I was told that she couldn't account for the statements of their reps or words to that effect.

I explained that I found this to be a very quite frankly suspicious state of affairs.  I also added that I was very unused to being spoken to as a long time customer in such an abrubt manner.  I mentioned the Insurance Ombudsman & am considering going down that, or the legal route..  I'll keep you all informed as there seems to be some varying opinions on here about their form so you'll hear it from the horses mouth from here on in.


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## Nige

the financial regulator is investigating their sales tactics .


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## AboutCICE

*About CICE and response to original poster*

*To wolfetone:* You asked about sales earnings as a new salesman at Combined Insurance. CICE has a very high and rapid turnover of sales people, with new people hired constantly to compensate for the high attrition rate of recent recruits who do poorly at the difficult job, or who walk away in despair.

It is not for everybody and it is hard to make good money at it, but they won't tell you that when they hire you because they need to find the few people who can push the policies successfully, by seeing them in action. They use sales techniques to sell the job to applicants during the interview, just as new hires are expected to learn and use similar techniques of persuasion on the public.

*To pela222:* I also worked for the Combined Insurance Company of Europe (formerly Combined Insurance Company of Ireland) in Merrion House and I remember the tricks taught to sales people to persuade uninformed people to buy the products. I know the fast-talking patter, the careful use of a pen as a pointer (a taught technique) to draw a person's eye to items marked in bold ink on the front of the insurance policy document while pouring out a bewildering flow of detailed and promising speech, and not analyzing the hazardous fine print overleaf. The manipulation focusses the person's mind and holds their flooded attention in a way that suppresses independent doubts. It's like an illusionist ("magician") using misdirection to create the appearance of magic, but it's just basic psychology, a few crude but effective techniques.

I have heard the in-house training classes in the conference room where young sales recruits under instruction had to call out, together, "I feel happy! I feel healthy! I feel terrific!" while jangling loud Swiss cowbells like cult members (I am not making this up). This was designed to sell the feeling of sales success to hopeful recruits (_jubilation!_) and to foment enthusiasm, focus and drive to pressure the resistant public to cough up ready cash. Discouragement happened soon enough to the raw recruits so the motivational techniques attempted to inoculate them against despair when faced by likely failure. The saner ones rolled their eyes when you mentioned the cowbells. I did not work in sales, fortunately.

The office itself was decorated with various "motivational" posters with giddy sayings like "Do it _now_!" This and the cowbells are derived from the PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) "philosophies" of Chicagoan, Clem Stone, the company founder who gave $10,000,000 to "tricky" Dick Nixon's two election campaigns, back when $10,000,000 was _terribly_ serious money, forty years ago. Such easy largesse came ultimately from the pockets of ordinary policy buyers. You can look up Mr. Stone and his colossal gift very easily on the Internet. It would be interesting to know what Mr. Stone got out of it.

I remember a colleague in the claims department showing me an angry letter from a wretched farmer in County Cavan (where a lot of pork is raised) who was so frustrated by his dealings with the department that he threatened in writing to "make the name of Combined Insurance stink worse than the pig sh*t in these Cavan hills." _[My asterisk.]_

*To dryanshaw:* You said Combined Insurance accident policies cover parachute jumping. Be serious. How many people actually need that? Dragging parachuting into it is just a buzz-creating sales technique. Furthermore, the number of deaths and injuries from skydiving in Ireland is negligible. The sport is very safe: you carry two parachutes, a main canopy and a reserve (the second one is your _real_ insurance policy). Skydivers are scrupulously careful, attentive to detail, and more responsible than most sports people because the stakes are so high: small errors are potentially deadly, and everyone knows it. Combined Insurance payments to skydivers punch no serious holes in the bottom line because accidents are very rare. That is why the company is willing to provide coverage, so those premiums are easy profit.

*To cindilu:* As for the anger expressed by the original poster, *cindilu*, who was badgered by the sales people, Combined Insurance takes its money from you in three ways: New business, renewals, and conversions. A new policy earns the sales people a commission. A policy renewal keeps the money flowing in. A policy conversion is an "upsell" where they convince you to give them more of your money for extra "protection", and more commission for them. As an existing customer, you have proven yourself open to their sales efforts. They come back for more money because you are not an intimidating "cold call"; you are on their files as "easy", so they want you to convert your policy to a more expensive one.

It is simple to get rid of them by asking for their business cards, then telling them not to call again, and that you will call their office to cancel further visits — then _do_ call the office (269 6522). You can also allow your existing policy to lapse without renewal and refuse to waste your time by explaining why. You owe them nothing. I hope this helps.


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## NorfBank

They have been suspended from selling insurance by the Financial Regulator.

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## ajapale

Thread Closed: See here for more discussion.

Regulator's probe prompts Combined to suspend its Irish sales


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## Brendan Burgess

They have now been fined €3.65 million by the Central Bank

 				[URL="http://www.askaboutmoney.com/index.php"]Askaboutmoney.com  	>    	> Insurance not covered in other forums   	>  Combined Insurance Company fined €3.45m for hard sell tactics[/URL]


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