# average management fees - apartments ?



## Midsummer

Hi - I would be interested to know what the average annual management fees were for an apartment (2 bed as an example).  The case in mind costs €1500 plus per annum which seems a really a high amount being more than a month's rent.

Thanks

M


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## geld

Last year mine as approx. 1650 for a 2 bed.  Am dreading to see what it is this year.
As a matter of interest....if you are an owner occupier, you can claim tax relief on the refuse collection proportion of the service charge only.
If you rent it out, then you can claim the entire service charge off tax.
This was clarified to me by my tax consultant last week.


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## bertie1

Euro 1500.00 in Cork City & Euro 950.00 in west cork, management company in place in the city complex , owners are running the management company in West Cork


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## Pulse

€2000.00 for a 3 bed apartment in Drumcondra


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## Stupid Boy

Folks... there is no average amount to be paid for an apartment... no two developments are ever the same...

Rents are generally on the decrease however the major category spends in a development

ESB
Insurance
Agents Fees
Refuse

They are all on the increase, therefore the previous one month rent rule of thumb has long since gone.

Dependent on the development a fair figure (again assuming a fair balance of services) for an apartment would be:

1 Bed - €1,200 - €1,500
2 Bed - €1,500 - €2,300
3 Bed - €2,300 - €3,000


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## rmelly

€1700 for 2 bedroom apartment in dublin


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## twofor1

€800, 2 bed  Louth, but it’s worth pointing out they are own door duplex type apartments, so no internal communal areas, lifts or electric gates all of which are big expenses for management companies.


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## Bessa

Hi i just paid 1,647 for a 1 bedroom in Dublin 8.


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## asdfg

Don't forget the management fee includes the building insurance on your apartments / duplex


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## Eblanoid

asdfg said:


> Don't forget the management fee includes the building insurance on your apartments / duplex


Other major costs:
Lifts
Landscaping/green areas maintenance.

The fee will be much higher if a sinking fund is being built up.  This fund can then be used to replace the lifts, roof tiles or paintwork when necessary.

I'm paying €1700 for a 1 bed near Heuston, but we've built up a sinking fund of over €200,000 and the place always looks well, so I'm happy with that.


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## Dustyman

E1,200 for a 3 bed duplex in Carlow town.


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## markpb

In my estate, it's €1,4000 for a duplex and €1,800 for an apartment (extra for the fire system, cleaning of the common areas, etc). We don't charge based on the number of rooms but the insurance is split based on the floor size. We have 16 acres of ground to landscape, four gates, three underground car parks to light 24/7 so it's quite expensive but hard to avoid.

Like the others said, comparisons between service charges is a fools errand - it's like comparing apples and oranges. If you wanted to compare landscaping fees, managing agent fees or something like that, then you might have a point.


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## L.J

Dublin City Ctr - €1729 for 2bed including parking charge (€165) - sinking fund is in place and the place is always well kept.  

Make sure that adequate insurance is in place - i.e. I was in another complex last yr where a fire caused loss of services (esb/water etc) we were re-housed in hotel for a number of weeks all covered by insurance - it's not always covered to this extent so worth checking


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## WHAT'SFREE?

€1250 per annum for 2 bed apartment in West Dublin.  No internal common areas.  No lifts in the development.  Approx 100 units in the estate.


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## asdfg

> management fee includes the building insurance on your apartments / duplex


 
Should also have mentioned that building insurance (rebuilding costs) should be reducing so insurance cost should smaller. Management fee should therefore be reducing


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## asdfg

posted in error


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## queenlex

Do these fees not turn anybody else off apartment living in Ireland?  I am renting a room and the owner pays something similar for a two bed apartment in Dublin which I think is crazy as people seem to get nothing for the fee, its like an extra tax that goes just to the developer instead of the Government!

Are management fees similarly expensive in other countries does anyone know?


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## purpeller

The point is that the owner does get something for these fees.  They get: building insurance, common area maintenance and lighting, lifts, landscaping, general building maintenance, etc.

If you own a house, you pay for all these things (where needed) as a matter of course, why should it be different for apartment owners?


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## ngwrbc

€1250 - 2 bed apt in Cork.  No lift, small building, 6 apts.  Entire complex approx 50 apts.  Actual cost amount is less but sinking fund being built up.  Service from agent only ok, marks out of 10 they'd just about be a 5 !


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## Guest116

purpeller said:


> The point is that the owner does get something for these fees. They get: building insurance, common area maintenance and lighting, lifts, landscaping, general building maintenance, etc.
> 
> If you own a house, you pay for all these things (where needed) as a matter of course, why should it be different for apartment owners?


 
No you dont, no lifts, "common area maintenance", usually no landscaping and generally significantly lower yearly costs compared to appartments management fees.


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## purpeller

You're taking me a bit too literally - obviously most houses don't have lifts but they do usually have gardens which require maintenance, hallways and landing require lighting and cleaning (certainly on a smaller scale to an apartment block corridor but still).


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## Serty

I think apartment management fees are crazy, i pay 1900 for Dublin 8 city location, i dont see the differenace between renting in the city v in the suburbs....i called my management company to complain about this, as rents are coming down, tenants are moving out of their countrys, price of living is coming down, job loses, salary cuts but the management companies can still charge these crazy prices.....IS there no one that we can complain to and ask for help....???


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## jdwex

Did you look at the budget and suggest areas that could be cut?


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## markpb

When it comes to apartment living, the only person you can rely on is yourself. The first thing you need to do is educate yourself as much as possible. Find out who your management compare any, who your managing agent is, get a copy of the budget for this year and your accounts for last year. If the agent/company are being awkward, the latter is available from the CRO website. Once you can see where your money is going, you're in a better place to decide if it's being well spent.

The next thing you should do is read [broken link removed], find some like-minded owners and set up a Residents Association. Make as much noise as possible, get involved as much as possible and, if it hasn't already happened, try to get the developer to go away and hand control of the company to the owners.


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## Eblanoid

Serty said:


> I think apartment management fees are crazy, i pay 1900 for Dublin 8 city location, i dont see the differenace between renting in the city v in the suburbs....i called my management company to complain about this, as rents are coming down, tenants are moving out of their countrys, price of living is coming down, job loses, salary cuts but the management companies can still charge these crazy prices.....IS there no one that we can complain to and ask for help....???



Do you not get it? If you own an apartment then YOU are a part-owner of the management company!

The fees are based on the management company's budget, which is agreed to by the members of the management company.

Instead of complaining, why not attend the AGM of the management company and offer to see if you can get cheaper quotes for some of the main costs of running the management company. I know that insurance is the main cost for my management company, and it has increased over the years.


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## so-crates

€550 3-bed duplex in Carlow. Obviously, no lifts etc.


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## finny

2 bed, dublin 1: €2,600. I win....

Just got a statement today, no accounts recieved ever, no notice of agm, heating billing still not ion place (i'm there a year).... I'll be requesting all of that before i pay a cent.


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## so-crates

Good grief finny - you are part of the managing company - you are only shooting yourself in the foot by not paying. Get involved not angry.


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## bhOnGRoSeTeS

Based on my search on the internet for a property, i'm keen in purchasing a 3 bed either in arena or tallaght cross. So is there anybody knows how much management fee for Arena and Tallaght cross?


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## Ruthie-81

hi i have a two bed in tallaght cross and the mgt fees are €2024.00 for this year, god knows what they will increase to in 2010


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## shesells

Those fees sound high - do you have lifts or gates? I'm in D15 and paying about €1200 for a 3 bed but no lifts or gates.

Fees are not static and are prone to increase or decrease depending on the financial situation in the development and repairs etc. required.


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## Ruthie-81

yeah it seems a lot but there are 4 lifts and a privately managed carpark which will obviously up the costs


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## Teknon

purpeller said:


> The point is that the owner does get something for these fees. They get: building insurance, common area maintenance and lighting, lifts, landscaping, general building maintenance, etc.
> 
> If you own a house, you pay for all these things (where needed) as a matter of course, why should it be different for apartment owners?


 

The maintainence on a house is far less than on an apartment.  My fees went up from 1300 to 1800 last year just because they were painting the windows ????  I could have bought a tin of ronseal for a tenner and done it myself for far less.  The sooner the government regulate management companies the better, they're a complete rip off !!


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## shesells

Teknon said:


> The maintainence on a house is far less than on an apartment. My fees went up from 1300 to 1800 last year just because they were painting the windows ???? I could have bought a tin of ronseal for a tenner and done it myself for far less. The sooner the government regulate management companies the better, they're a complete rip off !!


 
Have you actually any idea of the cost of painting? We've been quoted €60k to paint 8 blocks that are half brick!!

Management *companies* are not a rip off. They are the legal entity made up of all owners in the development and the company owns the common areas of the development. Management *agents* are hired by management *companies* to administer the day to day running of the development. Most people get annoyed with the agents and blame the company without even realising they are part of the company, and what their rights and responsibilities of owning in a managed development.


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## so-crates

Ever get that deja vu feeling shesells? I feel like a broken record sometimes when it comes to managing company/management agent!


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## DubShelley

Just wondering...if the maintenance fees are being increased should an official letter be sent out by the agent to inform owners...?? The first I heard of an increase was when I came home today to find an invoice for the coming year...fee has gone from €2,136 up to €2,432???

Also, there's a big difference on what you pay depending on how many bedrooms there are...the square footage doesn't come into it at all, e.g:

2 bed (847 sq foot) - €1,687.25
2 bed (945 sq foot) - €1,687.25
3 bed (1035 sq foot)- €2,431.99

Is this the norm? I think it's quite unfair as I'm in a 3 bed and the fee is so much higher than the 2 beds!


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## shesells

The invoice is your notice of the fees for that year. Fees do go up, and sending a letter to tell people they will be getting an invoice only adds to expenses which all add to costs.

As for the share of fees, depends on your leases, some specify a % of the total budget for the development, these tend to be the ones based on no of bedrooms. Calculating on size of floorspace would be too complicated.

In our development the two 4 bed houses pay more than double 1 bed apartment fees. But that's what the owners signed up to in their leases so there's nothing than can be done to change that.


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## Round Tuit

D15, own door 2 bed apartment - no lifts or gates - approx E1,200.
Dubshelly - The lease I signed on purchase of my apartment gave detailed info of the apartment rules (re satellite dishes, noise, washing on balconies etc) and also gave a breakdown on how fees are calculated. In my case it is based on square footage. There was a mathematical equation based on no of properties of each sq footage paying a % of the total fees in any given year. Everyone's leasehold agreement should detail this & should have been given a copy to keep. Purchasers would read this before signing (I hope) and thus would go into what is the apartment-owning experience with your eyes open. Down the line you then have the opportunities along with your fellow shareholders to elect directors and change management agents if you so choose. This year we expect our fees to go down slightly due to a renegotiation of agents fees and insurance, but not too much as we need to maintain our existing sinking fund.


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## maggiemae

Dublin 22- 1 bed apartment Annual fee 950


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## BCPK

2 bed ground floor station road Portmarnock, 1,700 this year!


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## minion

We have 14 apartments at the moment in Dublin.
1 beds - Average €800 per year
2 beds - Average €1100 per year

Some have been outrageous but we have got one of us onto the management committees of the troublesome ones and asked them to justify the charge for each different unit in the complex.  Then submitted to reduce the charges based on certain criteria.

Never failed yet to get a few hundred knocked off the annual charge once on the committee.

Usually if you cant get a breakdown and justified formula for these charges you're being taken for a ride.  Get one.


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## gabbo

Beaumont Woods, 2450. 2 bed. Outrageous.


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## minion

gabbo said:


> Beaumont Woods, 2450. 2 bed. Outrageous.



You need to get on the committee.  You are being robbed.  Ask for detailed breakdown of charges and definitely get copies of invoices (this is very important) so that you can see what work is being done for the money.  I bet most of the invoices come from companies owned by family or friends of the management agent.

Once you get invoices you should be able to see what work was done or was "said" to have been done.  You can then compile a report and pass it out at the next meeting.  Even pass it through peoples letterboxes.  And tell the agents that unles they get in line, you will be passing this report on to the newspapers and the police.  Thats always got the fees down for me.


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## rubberband

summerseat clonee co meath

2/3/4 bed houses  600 per year

2 bed apts 
3 bed duplexs (own door, no lifts) 600 to 955 euro (depending on size)


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## Leo

rubberband said:


> summerseat clonee co meath...


 
Note this thread is more than two years old.


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## twofor1

I posted in this tread back in 2009, quoting a fee of €800.00.

I have just paid my 2011/2012 fee, €660.00, last year was similar.

Are others seeing reductions ?


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## rubberband

these are up to date dec 20th 2012 fees...


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## zenga

minion said:


> You need to get on the committee. You are being robbed. Ask for detailed breakdown of charges and definitely get copies of invoices (this is very important) so that you can see what work is being done for the money. I bet most of the invoices come from companies owned by family or friends of the management agent.
> 
> Once you get invoices you should be able to see what work was done or was "said" to have been done. You can then compile a report and pass it out at the next meeting. Even pass it through peoples letterboxes. And tell the agents that unles they get in line, you will be passing this report on to the newspapers and the police. Thats always got the fees down for me.


 
You get a detailed breakdown of all the charges with your copy of the audited accounts every year!!! These are independently verified by auditors who go through each invoice, the accounts are then sent to the directors of the company (who are owners) and they sign them off. They are also presented and discussed at the AGM of all memebers which you are given 3 weeks notice of!!

The problem is in apartment living is that the people who live in apartments take on a totally different attitude to one they would take in their own homes. As soon as a light bulb goes or a bin overflows they cant wait to ring the managing agents to get a contractor out to fix it. They then ring the managing agent wondering why the repairs and maintenance figure is so high even though they were the very same people who caused the high figure in the first place!!!!!


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## alexandra123

Ours is gone up 20 euro this year - now at 320 for 2012


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## Ludo1

*Management Fee Cork City*

Hi there, i am buying an apt and the management fee I am supposed to take on is around 1600 euros. This building has no lift, tiny common areas and no garden. Waste disposal is not done by the mangmt company. I don't get it..I know it's Cork city centre but for such a small building, this seems too high to me...Does anyone pay such fees? My fear is that besides being financially challenging, i will never be able to resell the apt shall I ever need to! Thanks!


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## markpb

Ask for a copy of the accounts for last year so you can see where the money is spent. If you think it's too expensive and might cause you problems, don't complete the sale. Don't buy if you're not 100% sure you can pay - you'll only end up in court.


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