# Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Revenue



## amgd28 (16 Feb 2010)

I had a delay in filing my taxes online last November - I had lost my password to ROS and needed it re-issued.
I knew that I didn't owe the revenue any tax as had paid PAYE all year and my rental income was much lower than expenses.
So I didn't expect there to be a late filing penalty.
I just received a letter last Friday demanding over 1000 euro from revenue (the first such letter I received since filing).
On analysis it seems that I have been charged a late filing penalty of 1269.79 euro, turning a refund situation of approx 263 euro into a repayment situation of 1006.

I am gobsmacked at this - has anyone any advice? Have I any hope of clemency or should I just write the cheque from my (already largely overdrawn) account?


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## alexcoll (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

Would this be in relation to 2008 rental income only - presuming that your employer would have made return of income on your behalf?


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## amgd28 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

Form 11 filing - have had to do it for the last couple of years. I am a company director also but all my taxes and prsi (class S) goes through payroll and is filed and paid as part of the regular P30 submissions.
So yeah, the only additional income is rental - and I've never made enough there to make it taxable, given the expenses.


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## Graham_07 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

It's the company director bit that causes the problem, the s/charge is due on PAYE income also in those cases, not just on other income, hence the high s/charge. I'm afraid you're stuck with it.


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## DB74 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

I don't think it's a surcharge based on the tax though - I think it's a flat penalty for late submission

You should appeal, especially if you have a clean tax history with no previous late returns.

However, Revenue seem to be adopting a very hardline stance lately, attempting to squeeze every last cent out of normally compliant taxpayers when they miss a deadline by even a couple of days.

Can't lose anything by trying though.


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## amgd28 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

Thanks DB74. Yes it seems to just be a flat penalty for late - even though there was no tax due. 
I've put through payment for fear of further retribution but I really feel like I've been taken to the cleaners here


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## amgd28 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*



Graham_07 said:


> It's the company director bit that causes the problem, the s/charge is due on PAYE income also in those cases, not just on other income, hence the high s/charge. I'm afraid you're stuck with it.



I receive PAYE income only (with Class S prsi) from my company. I do not receive Directors enoulments or any other income from the company. As mentioned previously there was zero tax liability (I was in a refund situation)


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## Graham_07 (16 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*



amgd28 said:


> I knew that I didn't owe the revenue any tax *as had paid PAYE all year* and my rental income was much lower than expenses.
> So I didn't expect there to be a late filing penalty.


 


			
				amgd28;1003342[B said:
			
		

> ]I* receive PAYE income only (with Class S prsi)* from my company. I do not receive Directors enoulments or any other income from the company. As mentioned previously there was* zero tax liability* (I was in a refund situation)


 
You appear to be a proprietory director ( i.e. one with in excess of 15% shareholding and PRSI therefore at class S) and are in receipt of PAYE income from your company. The late filing surcharge in the case of proprietory directors is calculated as a percentage of the tax due BEFORE any credit for the PAYE paid on the salary/wages. You may have had a final nil liability as all tax due was paid through PAYE but the surcharge is calculated on the tax before credit for that PAYE paid. Take a look again at the assessment and see if this is the case. 

Interestingly, however the charge of €1269.79 you have been levied equates to IR£1,000. Some penalties, when €uro converted in 2002 were left at exactly the odd €uro amount of their previous even IR£ levels. This does then make your charge seem like a fixed penalty, however as I said, check the assessment and take 5% ( if it was filed within 2 months late) or 10% ( if filed more than 2 months late) of your liability before taking into account PAYE paid. Does that come anywhere close to the amount of surcharge levied. If it does, then you have your answer.


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## Bronte (17 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

For what it's worth I think revenue are being way harsh since you didn't owe any tax.  It smacks of big government going after the little guy.  Again.


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## opelcorsa1 (18 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

How late where you submitting the return??? I would state your case and appeal the decision, the late penalty is probably an automatic thing. What harm will it do


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## Graham_07 (18 Feb 2010)

*Re: Late Filing Penalty of 1250 euro turns refund situation into payment due to Reven*

Not being harsh, but where proprietory directors are concerned ( and the OP seems to be one as at PRSI class S ) , the rules on filing personal tax returns are well established. As a self-employed person ( which a proprietory director is considered to be ) returns must be filed by the due date and penalties apply for late filing. The surcharge applies to prop dirs on the gross tax DUE not after any PAYE paid. That is the incentive to file on time. I do not see Revenue being lenient, especially if this is not the directors first year filing.


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## seambie (9 Aug 2012)

Appealing revenue surcharges.....

I have recently submitted returns for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 on Revenue Online.

I am a proprietory director of 2 companies but have received no income from either of these companies.

I have paid significant tax through the PAYE system from 2006 to present day. The only income that did not go through the PAYE system during this period was rental income on which there is a (small) tax laibility for 2006, 2009 and 2010.

I have received a revenue assessment of income detailing late surcharges for late filing of returns. 

How likely is it that I will be appeal these surcharges?

My local tax office is in Meath.


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