# Court appearance for drink drving offence. Is representation required?



## Frank Grimes (26 Mar 2008)

Hi all,
Just a quick one, a family member was charged with a drink driving offense and now has a court appearance. Is a solicitor required to be present to represent him or can he just turn up plead guilty and that will be that?


----------



## Hasslehoff (26 Mar 2008)

He does not need a solicitor however he should prepare some case to mitigate his loss. The judge may well ask him to take the stand and explain himself so he shoudl be prepared for that, depending onthe judge.So he should say that he has not taken a drink since the matter and has or is seeking to go on a course prescribed by his GP to curb his intake and that losing his licence may mean losing his job and that he has three kids to look after and a wifey. Violins in the background but all of this may have little effect and he will be convicted anyway but may influence the sentence.

If he takes the plead guilty charge he will end up with a ban anyway, the normal now is 1 to 2 years depending on the circumstances.

PS no smarmy remarks to the judge either.

So that will be that as you say! or spend 2000 on a sol for the day.


----------



## Frank Grimes (26 Mar 2008)

Sound. With the associated fine I don't think they'll be in a position to afford a solicitor also.
Thanks.


----------



## TheBlock (26 Mar 2008)

The judge may refuse to allow him to plead guilty until he gets some representation.(as happend to a family member who wanted to plead guilty)...this is a serious enough incident and he could lose his license for a year or two and face a substantial fine. There are (rightly or wrongly) ways in which solictors have gotten clients off with what appeared to be open a shut cases of drink driving.

I don't know where the figure of 2000 came from but he/she should be able to get a solicitor for a fraction of that (200). If a barrister is needed another (3-400) and this could save him his license and quite a few quid on future insurance policies.


----------



## clonboy (26 Mar 2008)

hi,,
i was in this situation,, used a solicitor, and it cost me 375 euro,, and another 350 when i appealed it 6 months later..

got 12 months ban and 300 euro fine,, thats a while back now,, prob 2.5 years


----------



## jhegarty (26 Mar 2008)

Hasslehoff said:


> He does not need a solicitor however he should prepare some case to mitigate his loss. The judge may well ask him to take the stand and explain himself so he shoudl be prepared for that, depending onthe judge.So he should say that he has not taken a drink since the matter and has or is seeking to go on a course prescribed by his GP to curb his intake and that losing his licence may mean losing his job and that he has three kids to look after and a wifey. Violins in the background but all of this may have little effect and he will be convicted anyway but may influence the sentence.
> 
> If he takes the plead guilty charge he will end up with a ban anyway, the normal now is 1 to 2 years depending on the circumstances.
> 
> ...



Are all sentences for drink driving not now mandatory based on blood/alcohol ratio ?


----------



## gipimann (26 Mar 2008)

TheBlock said:


> I don't know where the figure of 2000 came from but he/she should be able to get a solicitor for a fraction of that (200). If a barrister is needed another (3-400) and this could save him his license and quite a few quid on future insurance policies.


 
My brother was in court about 18 months ago on drink driving charge and employed a solicitor and barrister.   Total cost about €1100 for both.


----------



## Hasslehoff (26 Mar 2008)

I based 2000 on a worst case scenario , you need to remember that you may have 2 adjournments until the case is heard, possibly three in certain districts, you have the plea, then the hearing and maybe a missing Garda in there. However if you appeal after all that then you go to the Circuit Court and you will then need a Counsel so brief fee and representation for him would be €800 alone, if you are handing around all day you will need another €800 for a good solicitor but you can take one out of the pound shop if you like and that may mean getting off on a technicality or spending 12 months walking. 
to sum up "if you want to eat for €2 then expect a €2 dinner" under the Solicitors Act they must provide you with an estimate, but of course you knew that.


----------



## TheBlock (26 Mar 2008)

gipimann said:


> My brother was in court about 18 months ago on drink driving charge and employed a solicitor and barrister. Total cost about €1100 for both.


 

Was this for one apperance? The figure i quoted is also from experience and total was around 600 mark. I suppose as another poster has already pionted out it's down to who you employ.

Personally the gamble in getting legal advice is one I would take as if you are lucky to get the case dimissed you will save many thousands in future insurance costs.

I am in no way condoning drink driving.


----------



## Ravima (26 Mar 2008)

I'm not a solicitor, but in the case of drink driving, a soliitor should be consulted at least in the initial stages. I would suggest that solicitor be engaged to deal with the entire case, as there are many things that could happen mitigate your case. Yes, you have a 90%+ chance of being put off the road, but that other 10% is vital and luck coudl fall your way.

I hope that he or she has now learned his/her leson and will never again drink and drive.


----------



## BOF (11 Sep 2008)

How long can someone be left sitting around waiting to be notified of any court appearance before the offence lapses ?  I know of someone (no it's not me ) who has a failed test but has not been given any further notification of any sort.  Is it 6 months?  1 year?


----------



## j26 (11 Sep 2008)

Its not essential, but highly recommended.  A solicitor knows his/her way through the courts much better than a lay person.

If he wants to go it alone, he can do so, and there are some basic things to do;


Dress smart
Address the judge as "Judge" and generally be respectful to the court
If there are any extenuating circumstances (having to take a child to hospital etc) have them listed out and be ready to tell the court
If there are any particular hardships (need job for work - not just to get to and from it, pregnant wife etc) have them ready too
Be honest - the judge can generally spot a lie a mile off as he/she is looking at it all day.

I saw an elderly gentleman do it one time and the judge recommended in the strongest terms to get representation, even so far as calling an adjournment so he could get representation, but if he had insisted on going on, the judge would have done so.


----------



## BOF (11 Sep 2008)

j26, I bumped this 6 month old thread as it related to my own query.


----------



## Caveat (11 Sep 2008)

j26 said:


> I saw an elderly gentleman do it one time and the judge recommended in the strongest terms to get representation, even so far as calling an adjournment so he could get representation, but if he had insisted on going on, the judge would have done so.


 
As a matter of interest, what is the reasoning behind this?

Is it simply a sympathetic position in that the judge felt the defendant was making things worse for himself, or is it just down to the way the judge would like proceedings in his/her court to be conducted?


----------



## dymo (11 Sep 2008)

I was charge 280 for my Soilictor and €400 fine  and also 12 months off the road with the new law that is in you can not appeal after 6 months and it does depend on the ratio of alcahol in your blood stream.The least ammount of time off is 12 mths but it depends on the alchoal level.


----------



## j26 (11 Sep 2008)

Caveat said:


> As a matter of interest, what is the reasoning behind this?
> 
> Is it simply a sympathetic position in that the judge felt the defendant was making things worse for himself, or is it just down to the way the judge would like proceedings in his/her court to be conducted?



More of a recognition that the accused has a fair crack of the whip with representation present.  On one side you have the State with all its machinery and on the other you have the individual accused person.  Representation allows it to be balanced up a bit.  
Further, the Gardai do not always get it right, and exceed their powers sometimes.  Having representation there makes it more likely that any transgression will be spotted.  The evidence can be tested.
Also, particularly with elderly people, or people who are, shall we say, not the sharpest pencils in the box, there is the fear that they may not fully understand what's going on, and the implications of a finding of guilty.

And also, it's much more convenient to deal with someone who knows what he/she is talking about .


----------



## BOF (11 Sep 2008)

Umm, anyone answer the question that actually bumped this thread out of retirement ?   Muchos grassy This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language.


----------



## peteb (11 Sep 2008)

No offence but are they sure they werent given a date but were too drunk to remember it? I got arrested and failed the breath test and I was given a court date within 15 mins! And that was 5.30 in the AM!!


----------



## nuac (11 Sep 2008)

I have no sympathy with drunken driving, but anybody going into court on a charge of drunken driving without a solicitor is unwise.

On conviction there are minimum mandatory disqualification periods despending on the amount of alcohol in your system.

There are stringenst statutory requirements on Gardai dealing with these cases, especially regarding the arrest abd custody in the Garda barracks . Garda sometimes overlook some of these points when giving their evidence. That can often lead to a dismissal.

There have been numerous dismissals for breaches of procedures, defects either in certificaton or in the operation of the Lyons Intoxiliser.

There are nearly always Judicial Review cases running in the High Court on some of the above points. Some judges will adjourn cases if told a similar point is awaiting hearing in the High Court; some won't. A solicitor practising in that area will know the form.


----------



## drakey1 (11 Sep 2008)

Just as an aside, if you have a drink driving conviction most insurance companies ask for a solicitors letter stating the level of alcohol in the blood at the time, how long the ban was for, if it was appealed and the amount of fine paid.


----------



## DeclanP (11 Sep 2008)

Representation may not be required for a drink driving offence if the person before the court does not have a previous conviction for the same offence of if the reading is not bananas high or if the arrest was not as a result of a road traffic accident where other more serious matters arise. The shortest period of disqualification is for one year for the lowest reading, then two years if the reading is above this and then three years — assuming it is a first offence. Generally the judge will ask the person if they want legal representation and if not, they will get an opportunity to explain what happened. For a first offence, legal representation is not essential as long as the defendant appears in court.


----------



## BOF (11 Sep 2008)

peteb said:


> No offence but are they sure they werent given a date but were too drunk to remember it? I got arrested and failed the breath test and I was given a court date within 15 mins! And that was 5.30 in the AM!!




That I can't say (and they probably can't either).  Surely any confirmation of said date would arrive in the post soon-ish after.  Basically the offence and test results were 4 months ago and not a thing has happened since.  The person hasn't driven since and it has very visibly shaken them up.  Not trying to defend here but I can see (as a concerned relative) that they are psychologically already very much going through their punishment  and would like to know for their sake when the deadline is.


----------

