# Moving to UK to file for Bankruptcy - How to deal with creditors?



## Natasha D (9 Oct 2013)

Dear Helpful Strangers,

I recently had a meeting with M.A.B.S regarding Personal Insolvency in Ireland, and learned that I am apparently too poor to enter into this process?    Go figure! If my situation weren’t so serious, I’d swear this is something you’d hear in a Monty Python sketch!  

I have concluded that emigration to the UK with a view to filing for Bankruptcy is the only viable option for me at this stage.  My partner and I, who is Scottish (and very generous with his flight miles ☺), have been commuting back and forth for the last year and I had hoped to relocate there in the near future but it looks like the Scottish Sequestration process is not a feasible option.  I’m therefore thinking that I will move to the UK for 6 months, file my petition for Bankruptcy and then go to Scotland (telling the authorities where I am etc). 

My house is in significant negative equity and my mortgage arrears are mounting constantly to the point that trying to sustain it has become a noose around my neck (euphemism of the year).  I am on an Illness payment of €188 p.w and the only contribution I can make per month is €340 Mortgage Interest Supplement which I receive from Community Welfare, when my monthly repayment should in fact be €1300.   I am also trying to service an unsecured loan at €50 per week, trying to keep everyone a little bit happy (nobody is!) and I have been in the M.A.R.P process for over a year which has been extended again and again.   Up until now it looked like I might be reinstated into my former employment (hence my lender’s patience), but this is now not going to happen.   Even if I were able to rent out the property I couldn’t manage the full repayment.  With the amount of stress my situation has caused and continues to cause, I just want to be free to try and move forward with my life and  Bankruptcy seems like the quickest and only viable solution at this stage after several years of trying so hard, and failing, to make this work.  I quit smoking, socializing (mostly), buying anything unnecessary, got rid of my car etc etc. Suffice it to say that I have been eking out an existence to survive not thrive and I can’t take it anymore.

So my questions relate to how best to proceed at this juncture?   Now that I have decided I am going to file for Bankruptcy (I have been thinking about this carefully for months) I’m not sure what to do, bearing in mind that I don’t care to keep the property:

1.	Should I contact my lender and try to enter an arrangement whereby the property will be sold and I sign an agreement to pay off the deficit (which is a lie as there is no possible way I will be able to find over €200,000)?

2.	Should I surrender the property and enter an arrangement?  (see note in parenthesis above which applies here as well).

3.	Should I just go, tell all my creditors where I am and ignore correspondence for 6 months before filing my petition?

4.	Some other option altogether?

5.	Am I free to sell my stuff to finance the move?

I have been following many of the case studies and forums here for a couple of months and want to thank you all for your helpfulness heretofore, even in general terms, and hope you can be of assistance with my queries also.

I intend to make contact with Steve Thatcher in the near future but it would be helpful to have some answers before I arrange an appointment with him.

Sorry for being so long-winded but this has been a verrrry long and painful story.  

Thank you all in advance.


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## Bronte (10 Oct 2013)

Natasha are both you and your partner living in Ireland? It's quite clear that your mortgage is unsustainable with the figures you've posted. 

Did you want to move to Scotland, I guess if your OH is working there it makes sense. I agree that UK bankruptcy is the business when it comes to sorting out a mess. I think the Irish system is a complete and utter joke. 

Yes you can sell your stuff to fund the move. But if I were you I'd figure our how much you will need, do this very carefully, and make sure you have that amount. 

The only person qualified on AAM to deal with the specifics of Scottish Sequestration versus UK Bankruptcy is Steve Thatcher. No doubt there might be an issue in relation to your plan to reside in the UK for 6 months and then move to Scotland would be a very important item to get legal advice on. I imagine if you're not married, it would be more helpful.  If you've read everything on here, you will no doubt conclude that it's better to hire a professional to get you through the system.  You'll need the money for that too.


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## Natasha D (10 Oct 2013)

Hi, Bronte,

Thank you for your reply. 

To answer your question... no, I have been living here all along and he has always been resident in Scotland.  We are unmarried.

My original hope had been that I could go there, so I'd have an important support mechanism in place while I go through this (further) nightmare situation but Sequestration is only applicable to unsecured loans so this and other technicalities mean this won't work out for me, hence my decision to go the UK.  The way I'm looking at it now is that it's a short term sacrifice to achieve a very significant long-term solution.   My understanding is that once you have been granted your petition for Bankruptcy, then you are entitled to move elsewhere providing the authorities know where you are at all times up until such time as you are discharged.  However, I will clarify this before doing anything silly or hasty.  

Any suggestions, please, on how best to proceed with the house etc?  Should I attempt to sell it, or, does that matter if my plan is to include it in my Bankruptcy application?


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## Cantalia (10 Oct 2013)

Steve thatcher always recommends going to the UK with unsecured debt, that is you either sell or surrender te house before leaving.
You should take the time to read all the threads in the insolvency section where all your questions have been answered many times for many similar stories. Best of luck!


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## Natasha D (10 Oct 2013)

Thanks, Cantalia,

I had somehow managed to overlook that advice until now re voluntary surrender of the property, only moving over with unsecured debts etc.  I think my brain is boggled with information overload. 

I understand that some lenders are delaying in responding to people's voluntary surrender documents.  If this were my experience, am I entitled to leave the country anyway and start establishing my COMI while they make up their minds once and for all, does anybody know?


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## Bronte (11 Oct 2013)

Natasha D said:


> I understand that some lenders are delaying in responding to people's voluntary surrender documents. If this were my experience, am I entitled to leave the country anyway and start establishing my COMI while they make up their minds once and for all, does anybody know?


 
Well if it were me I wouldn't be worrying about the banks getting their act together. In any case you can do what suits you, the bank can not stop you leaving. But as previously advised, better to have sold before you go. 

I imagine it would not be important to mention your boyfriend. Legally you are a single person. You might tell us how you get on and your journey along the way. It would be really helpful to others who are planning the same route. Best of luck.  It cannot have been easy to make this decision.


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## Steve Thatcher (11 Oct 2013)

Cantalia said:


> Steve thatcher always recommends going to the UK with unsecured debt, that is you either sell or surrender te house before leaving.
> You should take the time to read all the threads in the insolvency section where all your questions have been answered many times for many similar stories. Best of luck!




No I don't, I say that it is best to hand the property back before you go bankrupt, as this helps the OR and makes his involvement with you shorter than it might otherwise be. The property does not need to be sold and the debts do not need to be unsecured.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Steve Thatcher (11 Oct 2013)

Natasha D said:


> Thanks, Cantalia,
> 
> I had somehow managed to overlook that advice until now re voluntary surrender of the property, only moving over with unsecured debts etc.  I think my brain is boggled with information overload.
> 
> I understand that some lenders are delaying in responding to people's voluntary surrender documents.  If this were my experience, am I entitled to leave the country anyway and start establishing my COMI while they make up their minds once and for all, does anybody know?



yes by all means leave and what I get my clients to do is part way through the process write and send keys back and voluntarily surrender the property.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Cantalia (12 Oct 2013)

Sorry Steve, badly put on my part. As the banks already have the actual deeds, how does one go about actually handing it back?


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## Steve Thatcher (13 Oct 2013)

Cantalia said:


> Sorry Steve, badly put on my part. As the banks already have the actual deeds, how does one go about actually handing it back?



you simply need to "give up possession". By writing and saying you no longer want it, they should write back with voluntary surrender forms. Even if not, we say on our forms that the property has been handed back, that way the OR understands that you do not feel you still have an interest

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Natasha D (24 Oct 2013)

Hi Bronte,

My apologies for the delay acknowledging your response.  Yes, I will keep you posted.  I am thinking of blogging the experience as well but I probably won't post the entries until after the fact, just to err on the side of caution.  I imagine many people would be interested in reading it if the number of people who have read this thread are any indication.

This might sound strange but I feel like I've been through the worst of it already (bad investment, bad advice, bad timing, bad luck, illness) and having made this decision I now feel (paradoxically) a huge sense of relief.


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## Natasha D (24 Oct 2013)

Thank you very much, Steve, for being so helpful, as always.  I'll be in touch with you soon re: appointment, and will identify myself as this person when I give you a call.


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## Natasha D (24 Oct 2013)

Hi Bronte,

My apologies for the delay acknowledging your response. Yes, I will keep you posted. I am thinking of blogging the experience as well but I probably won't post the entries until after the fact, just to err on the side of caution. I imagine many people would be interested in reading it if the number of people who have read this thread are any indication.

This might sound strange but I feel like I've been through the worst of it already (bad investment, bad advice, bad timing, bad luck, illness) and having made this decision I now feel (paradoxically) a huge sense of relief.


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## Cantalia (24 Oct 2013)

Can someone suggest the wording of the necessary letter to be sent with keys and paperwork for a voluntary surrender of a property to a Bank, are there specific turns of phrase that should be used or is there a precise wording that needs to be used for "jingle mail". I mean what are the chances of the bank just posting the lot back to you????? Any help appreciated.


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## 44brendan (24 Oct 2013)

There is no exact wording. Strictly speaking banks would ask that their own documentation be completed, but this is not legally required. Just send a standard letter, clearly quoting your account details and your intentions. Either send the kays or arrange where they can be collected (solicitor/other party). Send the letter by registered mail and keep a copy.


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## prodigy81 (28 Oct 2013)

Do you have to tell your creditors your applying for bankruptcy on such and such a date?


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## Steve Thatcher (28 Oct 2013)

No you need only provide them with a change of address.

the law from europe simply requires, "that your creditors are reasonably able to ascertain your whereabouts"
In the case of normal people like us that is going to mean we need to give them our new address. You would if you moved from Dublin to Cork, this is no different and no more is required.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## prodigy81 (28 Oct 2013)

Ok Okay, so to clarify there is no need to inform them you are going applying for bankruptcy??


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## Steve Thatcher (28 Oct 2013)

prodigy81 said:


> Ok Okay, so to clarify there is no need to inform them you are going applying for bankruptcy??



If you need clarification rom what I have posted then the answer is no

Steve


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## prodigy81 (2 Nov 2013)

Okay, sorry but i really wanted to make sure. Another quick question for you Steve; when your declared bankrupt, are you only free from the OR when your house is sold? Like what happens if it takes a few years for the banks to sell your home?.


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