# Key Post: Electric storage heater repairs/spares.



## ClubMan

Anybody know where I can get a replacement element for a Unidare storage heater which seems to have burnt out? Or do storage heaters have replaceable fuses built in which should be checked first? Alternatively, any recommendations on a reliable/affordable electrician to carry out the repair (Central Dublin)?

Brrrrr......


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## bstop

*Re: Electric storage heater repairs/spares*

There is an overheating fuse link in storage heaters this could
be melted. The controller thermostat could be faulty also.
If you can get a loan of a multimeter you could check out these quite easily. Is your heater a slimline type?
If it is it it will have more than one element, so it would be unlikely that all are burnt out.
You would probably get parts from a Domestic appliance spares supplier , which are listed in the golden pages.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Electric storage heater repairs/spares*

Thanks _bstop_ - I noticed a funny noise from the heater last week when it was charging (I was up late!) and it failed a few days later. It doesn't seem to charge up at all now so something is completely kaput. I'll check the overheating fuse - do you know where it's normally located? I have a multimeter and can also check the thermostat in case the "input/charge" circuit is broken. It's not very slimline - it's about six inches deep. I'll try my usual source (the domestic appliance parts place on North Frederick Street) for the part or advice on where to get it if it proves necessary. Thanks again for the advice.


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## flash

*euphony*

and I believe that when one "consultant" signs another up, then the first "consultant" gets a cut on an ongoing basis from the first "consultant" and so on.

The numero uno "consultant"  or even 2nd or 3rd must be millionaires several times oven

look pyramid 2 me


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## ClubMan

*Re: euphony*

And there's me thinking it was just a burnt out element! :eek 

:lol


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## ClubMan

*Re: euphony*

Isolated it from the mains, partially disassembled it (front panelling etc. - not the bricks/elements or anything nasty like that), cleaned it out (7 years worth of dust & fluff which can't be good!), inspected the connections, switches and "fuseable link" for damage but everything seemed OK. Reconnected it to the mains and lo and behold it kicked into life at 11pm when the charging cycle starts! Strange. Hope the house doesn't burn down tonight! :lol


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## bstop

*Re: euphony*

Your problem might have been dirty contacts on the charge
thermostat ,that would cause sparking or sizzling noises.


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## ClubMan

*Re: euphony*

When you say "charge thermostat" do you mean the "charge/input" control on the heater itself as opposed to the room thermostat or something else inside the heater? I thought that input knob controlled a variable resistor (potentiometer?) or something like that but it seems to simply be a purely mechanical device (like a bi-metallic strip sort of gadget)? Maybe it was just dirt. Thanks for the help!


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## bstop

*Re: euphony*

Yes its the bimetalic strip device in the heater that i was
refering to. Its fairly basic technonogy, no electronics.
You can spot most faults by simply having a close look inside
the heater.


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## ClubMan

*Re: euphony*

Thanks again for the help/advice _bstop_!


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## wowser

*brrr...*

Anyone know about  getting more efficient storage heaters. Mine are 7 years old (Unidare I think) and are pretty pathetic at the "storage" part.  I saw some on an american website that seemed better (probably using old space-shuttle tiles) but no indication of anything available in this neck of the woods.

thanks...


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## Sarsfield

*Storage Heater Timer gone Crazy!*

My storage heaters have started coming on and off at the wrong times.  They come on in the wee small hours and are still on when I go out to work at around 9am

In fact I don't think they came on at all on Sunday night.

Any idea how or where I can adjust the timer?  I did find something on the fuseboard but it doesn't seem to make any difference.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s

*Re: Storage Heater Timer gone Crazy!*

Unless you have individual timers on your radiators it sounds like your night rate meter timing could be askew. Try checking the main and night rate meters to see if the time looks correct on them. If not call the ESB.


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## Sarsfield

*.*

ESB coming out on Tuesday to replace timer.  Thanks all.


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## Sarsfield

*One further question*

Does the dodgy timer mean I've been getting charged off-peak rates during the day, or that my storage heaters have been charging up on full rate ESB?


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s

*Re: One further question*

If your heaters have been charging up outside the Night Rate periods then you will presumably be charged full whack. If this was happening and it was because the meter timing was off (was it?) then you should contact the ESB and try to negotiate a discount.


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## sarsfield

*.*

Storage heaters came on at 11pm this evening!

ESB obviously arrived and did the job as promised.  Well done


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s

*Re: .*

Do you know if you they were charging on the daytime tariff at any stage and, if so, if there's any scope for obtaining any sort of compensation/refund? Basically - check your next bill carefully and if it's estimated check it against the actual meter reading!


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## sueellen

*Re: >>Optimum use of storage heating*

*Some other posts*

*Ocras
Frequent poster
Optimum use of Storage Heating.*

I got some private PM’s regarding a storage heater post which accidentally disappeared into cyberspace, so I will repost it again. I hope it is of use too some AAM users. I also think that the ESB would be doing their energy conservation/awareness policy a lot of good, if they were to advise customers of their efficient use, as I believe a high proportion of storage heater users do not know how to use them correctly, at a financial cost

1. Storage heaters are exactly that. They store heat which is generated at night (11pm to 8am), by means of a cheap rate tariff, as there is not a high demand on our electricity grid at night. This is a separate meter that the consumer has and a separate sealed timeswitch, supplied by the ESB.

They store heat by means of elements heating bricks within the heater unit. To stop this heat dissipating immediately (during the night), the storage heater unit has an insulated housing.

To release this heat, there is an internal mechanical flap at the top of the heater, which the user can open to varying apertures, which allows heat to escape from the bricks and heat the surrounding environment.

2. To control the amount that we heat the bricks up to, we use the thermostat (Input Dial, situated at top or side of heater). This is a trial and error setting as it is relevant to the insulation properties of the building and heat required. As a base, during very cold weather, have it set high. During cold weather have it set medium. When the property is vacant, and dampness needs to be avoided, set both low. What you pay for your heating, will be proportional to this setting, but is also relational to the setting of the mechanical flap (Output Dial, situated at top or side of heater).

In other words, a kettle would take more time to boil, and hence use more electricity, if the lid was left off.

3. To control the amount of heat we let out of the heater, we use the Output Dial (mechanical flap). This should ideally be closed (output set low) during the night. As the bricks heat up, there is always some escape of heat through the insulation of the housing, which heats the surrounds adequately.

If we have this flap open (output set high) during the night, then the bricks are constantly releasing heat, so the thermostat does not control the input and you are constantly paying. Alongside this, the bricks have not stored enough heat to dissipate out during the day.

So the ideal setting for the flap is to have it closed during the night, and to be opened gradually during the day, as the heat is required. (please note, that if the area is still cold at night, with the input set high, you should open the flap slightly (output set low/medium)).
So, to summarise, Input is left at a certain setting relevant only to weather periods.
Output is left low at night and adjusted daily, relative to the heat required.

4. On the subject of combination heaters; In my personal opinion they are terrible. They have nothing to do with the storage heater. They are a separate convector heater, stuck on to the front of the storage heater, and run only on the high ESB tariff, day or night.

They have very bad thermostatic qualities, as they are attached to the storage heater, and hence their thermostat is reacting to the heat that is directly around the storage heater. They will cost you.

What I would recommend as a supplementary backup heater, irrelevant of what your main central heating system is, is the oil filled electric radiators on wheels. Their thermostat reacts excellently to the surrounding temperature, and does not click on, due to nuisance drafts, such as a door opening momentarily. In other words the differential in the thermostat is energy efficient.

*sueellen
Moderator
Re: Optimum use of Storage Heating*.

Hi Ocras,

Thanks for taking the trouble to post this helpful/informative post. Hopefully it will prove useful/cost effective to any AAM storage heater users. 

Thanks again,

Sueellen. 

*Daithi
Registered User
I would like to add*

All storage heaters should be on timers. ie turn on and off at the required times set by the low rate of electricity.

Its amazing how many people leave the heater on all day using the day rate.

These heaters can be extremely economical if used correctly.

If you switch over to a night time meter then you should make damned sure that you have a timer on your dish washer, washing machine, dryer, hot water etc to make sure you get the value for the extra standing charge.

These appliances should come on during the low rate time.

*Ocras
Frequent poster
Re: I would like to add*
-
Hi Daithi, it's a correct addition, but is relevant to "Gold Shield Homes" or "Night Saver Tarriff" system only.

For any readers, my post related to standard storage heating installations which is indicated on their ESB bill. 

*ClubMan
Administrator
Re: I would like to add*

Its amazing how many people leave the heater on all day using the day rate.

With Nightsaver/Goldshield storage heaters this is not possible unless the night meter's clock is out of whack or you are actually referring to the convection heater part of combined storage/convection heaters? 

*Daithi
Registered User
Any storage heaters i've seen*

Any storage heaters i've seen can be left on in the day time and are not convection heaters.


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## jackblack

can anybody tell me what my timer switchs should read for low cost,night and day?


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## Tigerlily

*Help! Electric storage heater manual needed!!*

Hi all,
I have just moved from Germany to England and in some places I am completely lost. I have storage heaters in my house and I have no clue how to work them. Since it is becoming kind of cold in the evenings, I would be very very happy if you could help me out. 
It says 'Unidare' on top but I can't find a type or serial number. The heater has on top a little flap. Inside are two dials with numbers 1 to 6 on them. One says 'output' (left side) and the other one says 'input' (right side). Additionally there is another dial on the right side of the heater, also with numbers from 1 to 5 on it. There is a switch as well (red, 1 and 0 on it). On the wall next to the heater are two switches. One says 'offpeak' and nothings seems to happen if I use it. The other turns obviously the heater on, but can anybody please explain the whole thing to me?
I would like the heater to use the cheaper night rate and then give heat in the evenings. What do I have to do that this happens?

Thank you very much for your help, it is much appreciated!


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## ClubMan

*Re: Help! Electric storage heater manual needed!!*



Tigerlily said:


> Inside are two dials with numbers 1 to 6 on them. One says 'output' (left side) and the other one says 'input' (right side).


Input controls the amount of charge the heater stores up overnight. Try setting this to the maximum initially. Output controls (well sort of - it's a bit hit and miss with storage heaters) the amount of heat emitted during the day. If you are out all day and only in in the evening set this to min while out and then to medium or max when you get in. If you are there all day then set it to low or medium. The amount of charge stored up may also depend on any room thermostat(s) installed and their setting. In general the idea is that the output should be cranked up when you want a boost of heat from the storage part of the heater. That's the theory anyway! As I say it's all a bit hit and miss but if the property is well insulated (e.g. _Goldshield_) then it may not matter as much of the heat will be retained. 


> Additionally there is another dial on the right side of the heater, also with numbers from 1 to 5 on it. There is a switch as well (red, 1 and 0 on it).


 Sounds like it's a dual mode storage and convection heater. The idea being that the storage heater provides the background heating and the output can be used to give a boost (it basically opens vents over the storage heater blocks allowing more heat to escape) but sometimes you may need to switch on the convection part of the heater (which uses electricity there and then unlike the storage part which uses night rate electricity overnight) or a fire or whatever to give more heat. The dial on the side may be a heat setting for the convection part. Not 100% sure.


> On the wall next to the heater are two switches. One says 'offpeak' and nothings seems to happen if I use it.


 I presume that's the storage heater switch. If that is the case then nothing will happen immediately but if you leave it on overnight it will charge up. However you will want to double check this in case it's something else and you run up a huge bill overnight testing this!


> The other turns obviously the heater on, but can anybody please explain the whole thing to me?


 That's the convection heater part and uses electricity immediately. 


> I would like the heater to use the cheaper night rate and then give heat in the evenings. What do I have to do that this happens?


 My guess is that you need to switch the other switch on and leave the heater charging overnight with the input set to max (or whatever) and the output set to low. 

Why not just ask your neighbours if they have the same system?


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## Tigerlily

Clubman,

thanks ever so much for shedding a little light on the heater-problem. I think I will be fine now but to be sure I will try to ask the neighbour.
Thanks a lot!


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## positive ion

Hi,
I'm having problems with my storage heating system. Basically there's no voltage at the switch at the storage heaters. So then went to the fuse board and checked for voltage into the contactor which it has when the timer kicks in but no voltage out so I'm wondering if anybody would know where i could get a cutler-hammer contactor part number CE12BNC400 SERIES A1. I've tried five or six places in north dublin but no luck. I can get them in from England but Dublin would be handy! 
Thanks
Positive Ion


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## thimble

Can anybody recommend someone to repair a storage heater? South/central Dublin.

Mine was working fine but has suddenly stopped. In view of ClubMan's experience, I turned off the mains, took off the front and hoovered it out (with my fingers crossed) but no joy, and I don't know enough about electrical items to try anything else.


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## Moneypit

Thimble, from a recommendation on this site I rang a guy called Robert McCormack a couple of months ago to fix a storage heater in a rented apartment I own, he was very good as in he turned up on time and didn't charge mad money for calling out, turned out our problem was just down to a blown fuse but I'd use him again, his number is 0864022142.


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## thimble

Thanks Moneypit!


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## Auntie

*Re: Electric storage heater repairs/spares*

I just bought a second-hand home and the 2 input and output knobs are missing on the main storage heater. I sourced a website in the UK that delivers to Ireland but minimum order is £15 and these knobs are only £2.50 each or something. Anyway, can anyone point me in the direction of a shop that might sell such things? 

Clubman you mentioned a place in North Frederick St, but that was in 2002. 



ClubMan said:


> I'll try my usual source (the domestic appliance parts place on North Frederick Street) for the part or advice on where to get it if it proves necessary.


 
Is it still there do you know, or can you tell me the name of it? 
Any info appreciated, thanks. Tried Golden Pages online but 'Domestic Appliance Spare Parts' only gave me a place for Gas heating.


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## ClubMan

Mastercare are my preferred spare parts supplier these days. Recommended by somebody else here on _AAM _and the are very good/helpful/competitive in my experience. The spare parts place in _North Frederick Street _was closed the last few times that I passed by. Not sure if it's closed for good or what but they are a lot dearer than _Mastercare _anyway.


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## Auntie

That's great, thanks for the info, I'll try them


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## indi.lady

*Storage Heater*

Our storage heater has decided to stop working for no apparent reason. We think it might be something to do with the timer.Can anyone tell me who i should contact- the ESB maybe?

Thanks


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## ClubMan

*Re: Storage Heater*



indi.lady said:


> We think it might be something to do with the timer.


What timer? You mean the one that switches over from the day to night meter?


> Can anyone tell me who i should contact- the ESB maybe?


If you think that the meter is faulty then call the _ESB_. Otherwise it's your own responsibility so call a sparks.


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## jules40

Hi!

My storage heaters are storing heat during the day and I've noticed my bills go up!
In March I had a new meter fitted...this is been happening since then I think!
Do you think I need my meter checking out or could it be something to do with the wiring/fuse box????

Jules.


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## ClubMan

What do you mean by "storing heat during the day"? This is what they are supposed to do. Do you mean that they are using electricity during the day and not just charging up on night rate electricity? If so how are you verifying that this is the case? Do you have dual day/night meters as would normally be the case with storage heaters (which will charge up on night rate between 11/midnight and 8/9AM)? Was the meter change done by a qualified electrician? Why did you need a new meter installed? In short - not enough info.


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## jules40

ClubMan said:


> What do you mean by "storing heat during the day"? This is what they are supposed to do. Do you mean that they are using electricity during the day and not just charging up on night rate electricity? *Yes,* *Normally they store heat during the night on economy 7, not during the day, but mine are. They keep clicking on, using the electric to store more heat.* If so how are you verifying that this is the case? *One of the heaters continued to store during the day and ended up overheating and burnt out.* *This has been replaced by a new heater, but is still heating up during the day!*Do you have dual day/night meters as would normally be the case with storage heaters (which will charge up on night rate between 11/midnight and 8/9AM)? *The meter was changed from a very old one to this new digital one. It has 3 rates on it...rate 1, 4, and 8. I don't understand why it has 3 rates? I thought it would just have the 2 rates...the old meter did! *Was the meter change done by a qualified electrician? *Yes! *Why did you need a new meter installed? In short - not enough info.


 
I have checked the consumer unit for potential problems with fuses etc...it's fine! All the wiring for the heaters is fine, I just can't understand why they are using electric during the day to store heat. 
The only conclusion I can come to is that the meter was not installed correctly. It is a combined/all-in-one meter which has small box-like attachments connected to it...Im asuming these could be what regulates the economy 7 switch-over times????

Since the meter was changed, my bills have virtually doubled!
I live alone...use the usual electrical household items and only have 2 storage heaters on during winter, yet my winter bills have gone from ?£245 per qtr to £475...this is ridiculous for the small amount I use. Im also not home that often, as I work shifts!

Can you please give me some idea as to what might be happening, as this is doing my head in!!!!

Thanks!
Jules40.


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## Hoagy

Reading your post makes me suspect you're in the UK.
Most if not all of the advice you will get here relates to Ireland.
Storage heating is controlled differently in the UK, so you would have a better chance of getting an answer on the excellent UK electrical forum
Diynot
From your description I think you may be talking about a time switch rather than a meter.


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## jules40

Hoagy said:


> Reading your post makes me suspect you're in the UK.
> Most if not all of the advice you will get here relates to Ireland.
> Storage heating is controlled differently in the UK, so you would have a better chance of getting an answer on the excellent UK electrical forum
> Diynot
> From your description I think you may be talking about a time switch rather than a meter.


 
Thanks! Yes I am in the UK. I will try this other forum you suggested.
Thanks again!
Jules40.

P.S. This is a brilliant forum site!


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## triple_rotor

hi
just a quick question say you had both dials set at 6(or the highest setting)and just left it at that over night how early would the heater run out of heat the next morning???thanks


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## Lauren

If you leave both dials at max then you will have maximum heat in the early part of the day with a lot less heat for the evening...The storage heater won't go completely cold in the evening but you would like need some further boost for say a living room area. I tend to leave the output really low all the time and it slows down the heat output process somewhat. 

In general though I think storage heaters suck!


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## Simeon

Anyone with anything positive to say about storage heaters? Am thinking about installng same in old (but shortly very well insulated) house. Each room will also have a wall hung thermostatically controlled oil-filled rad.


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## ksarah

Hi

Need some advice here please

I have 2 Dimplex CXL Storage heaters with convector and both stopped working recently. They are both pretty old.

Turned on the convector on one the other day and I heard a loud bang! Same happened the other one a few weeks before. So I've turned them both off at the switch and also at the fuse board. Therefore I have no heating at all at the moment.

Today I removed the front panel on one of them and hoovered it out. Inspected all the wires and they look okay to me. Nothing that I can see looks wrong.

Just looking for some advice on fixing this. Whereabouts am I looking for the fuse or what other obvious things should I be looking for?
I'm assuming just the convector wont work and that the storage heater will work if I turn it on. Is it safe to do this?

Found the layout of the inside of the storage heater here


Can someone tell me what number part is the fuse?

Thanks in advance


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## Seb38

I’m having problems with my storage heating and now it is getting really cold out I am starting to panic! 
The problem started to happen about a year ago, there was no voltage at the switch of each of my 3 storage heaters so when the timer kicked in and the controller on the fuse board switched on the heaters did not. They would eventually turn on but only for a few hours in the morning. I had the ESB out to check the timer as this had been an issue before but they assured me it was working (we have one timer for our block of 6 apartments). I worked around this last year by having the controller set to constant which I know is only a test setting so tut tut to me, but it got me through the winter. I decided this year to get the problem fixed properly so I got an electrician out. He said he could not find a problem at the fuse board and didn’t know much about my particular controller (devireg 710-2) but suggested replacing the controller as this could be the problem. €160 and a week later I still have no heating although the problem has now changed. The controller no longer switches on when the timer kicks in. It does eventually come on at about 6.30 and switches off again at 9, 2.5 hours heating is not going to get my through the winter this time and since the controller is no longer coming on when the timer kicks in I cannot even use the constant setting option. My electrician does not know what else to do….
A couple of other things to note; my heaters are creda, the input and output dials are set at the recommended settings, the boost feature on the main heater has stopped working. I have also checked with some of my neighbours and they are not having any problems with theirs. 
Hope someone can advise as I am getting very cold J


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## Bloodangel

Hi there, 

I have creda storage heaters in my property. 
They have 2 dials on the top... a input and a output. Each dial goes from 1 to 6. 

Can anyone please help me with what to have these 2 dials set on please? 

At the moment they are both set on 4.  Will a setting of 4 on each cause my electric bill to be more expensive? 

At the moment i am in all day as i am unemployed, so need the heat from about 8am when my daughter wakes for school...through to when i go to bed about midnight. 

Thank you so much for your help 
Mark


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## ClubMan

Did you read in full the existing threads (including this one) about how to use storage heaters? It's all explained already. And there is information elsewhere (e.g. _ESB _website) about them too.


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## Bloodangel

i did read the previous posts, but im still non the wiser about what to set the dials on 

Do you have link for the info on the ESB site please?

thanks


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## Hoagy

You can download the user manual [broken link removed]


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## ClubMan

If you need heat all day then I would recommend:


Make sure that all thermostats (e.g. any master (usually wall mounted) thermostat, individual room thermostats (usually wall mounted in each room that has a storage heater) and any radiator thermostats (not always present)) are adjusted to give the appropriate level of heat desired (usually the the thermostats are marked with indicative termperature settings).
Set the input to 6.
Set the output to 1 at night.
In the morning if the heat is not already sufficient then gradually increase the output setting until it is. If the heat is insufficient throughout the day increase the output setting. Or when you need a heat boost later in the afternoon/evening set the output to 6. Remember step 3 before retiring to bed!
If you find that there is too much heat as a matter of course then go back to step 1 and/or decrease the input setting.
Unfortunately with storage heaters (especially if they charge up during a mild night and then there is a cold snap the next day) you may run out of stored heat during the day and have to fall back on other sources of heat (e.g. open fire, convection heaters, standalone oil filled electric heaters etc.). Storage heaters are not the most precise form of heating especially on demand. If electricity is the only heating option then I would consider having an oil filed electric radiator in as a backup rather than using the convection panel heaters sometimes bundled with storage heaters or in ancillary rooms in a _Goldshield _house. Make sure that any standalone heater is suitably spec'd for the space to be heated.


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## Bloodangel

thanks all for your replies and help


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## Lauren

Clubman did you mean for point 3 to be

Set the _output_ to 1 at night?

What works for me is to have the Input at 6 and leave the output permanently on 1 so that the heat is released slowly during the day. 

I have storage heaters but no thermostats.


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## ClubMan

Lauren said:


> Clubman did you mean for point 3 to be
> 
> Set the _output_ to 1 at night?


Yes - that was a typo which I have now fixed.


> What works for me is to have the Input at 6 and leave the output permanently on 1 so that the heat is released slowly during the day.


Same here.


> I have storage heaters but no thermostats.


Are you *absolutely *sure that there are no thermostats anywhere controlling your storage heaters' overnight charging?!


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## lollops

how do the thermostat controls work??


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## ClubMan

They attempt to control the temperature so that it never goes above the set point. I think that there is usually one thermostat which controls charging up overnight and one or more that controls the heat output during the day.


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## lollops

i think if u charge up at night, then the day one doesn't apply. But I'm not sure what the night setting should be at, so i just have it in the middle.


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## ClubMan

Actually the individual room thermostats may be controlling the heat output of the panel convection heaters built into some storage heaters (and provided for boosting the heat when the storage heater runs out of stored heat). And then the main thermostat controls the charging overnight. Apologies for any confusion caused.


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## Lauren

ClubMan said:


> Are you *absolutely *sure that there are no thermostats anywhere controlling your storage heaters' overnight charging?!



I'm confused about this now...There must be SOMETHING somewhere...After you asked me that last week I noticed that on the very cold days last week the storage heaters were piping hot and almost too hot....great heat from them from early in the morning and even in the evening the temp was still high....Now this week they are nowhere near as hot and I haven't made any changes to the input or output....What would a thermostat look like? Could it be built into the storage heater? Could there be one for multiple apartments in a block? Thanks in advance for your help...


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## linders

I have dimplex storage heaters that are coming on at the wrong times. I notice the red light at the fuse switches come on at 9.30 in the evening and go off about about half an hour later. After reading this thread I am going to call ESB tomorrow about the time clock. Have you called ESB Lauren?
I have no access to the ESB time clock to check it as they are in the basement of my apartment building.

I have noticed on that on the fuse board there are day and night knobs with red flashing lights and turn to -4, -2, 2, 4 . What should these be set to?

Thanks for the help


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## Lauren

Haven't called the ESB no and not sure what those clock things mean either. Mine come on at the right time but seem to vary considerable in temperature so must be regulated by a thermostat somewhere as Clubman has suggested..I have no idea where that might be though!


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## boomer3

linders said:


> I have dimplex storage heaters that are coming on at the wrong times. I notice the red light at the fuse switches come on at 9.30 in the evening and go off about about half an hour later. After reading this thread I am going to call ESB tomorrow about the time clock. Have you called ESB Lauren?
> I have no access to the ESB time clock to check it as they are in the basement of my apartment building.
> 
> I have noticed on that on the fuse board there are day and night knobs with red flashing lights and turn to -4, -2, 2, 4 . What should these be set to?
> 
> Thanks for the help


 
Hi folks, I work for the ESB and regularly get calls to apartments for Faulty NSH. A lot of the problems but not all are caused by the heating conntroller fitted in the apartment distribution board. Its the little box with the -4 -2 +2 +4 and is usually a DEVI REG 710-2. The dial on the left labelled DAY should be left at the mid setting as it isnt required in normal use. Set the dial on the right labelled night to the mid position initiatly. after a day or so if you require more heat turn it clockwise a little and vice versa if you need less heat. The unit has a temperature sensor mounted outside the building and sometimes they are placed in the wrong location it can drive the controller nuts.these units are great when they work but are a real pain when they dont. if they are working correctly many people think there heaters are coming on late when in fact the unit has decided that less heating charge is required and delays the switch on period for the storage heaters.


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## boomer3

Hi folks, I work for the ESB and regularly get calls to apartments for Faulty NSH. A lot of the problems but not all are caused by the heating controller fitted in the apartment distribution board. Its the little box with the -4 -2 +2 +4 and is usually a DEVI REG 710-2. The dial on the left labelled DAY should be left at the mid setting as it isnt required in normal use. Set the dial on the right labelled night to the mid position initiatly. (ie the pointer symbol at the 12 o clock position) after a day or so if you require more heat turn it clockwise a little and vice versa if you need less heat. The unit has a temperature sensor mounted outside the building and sometimes they are placed in the wrong location it can drive the controller nuts.They can be tested for continuity or resistance value by electrician. these units are great when they work but are a real pain when they dont. Connection diagram can be downloaded by searching on Google for DEVIREG 710-2. if they are working correctly many people think their heaters are coming on late when in fact the unit has decided that less heating charge time is required and delays the switch on period for the storage heaters.


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## boomer3

set the input knob to 6 for maximum charge and set the out put knob to 4-5 setting. you will have to vary the output setting to suit your personal taste for heat but basically the higher the output setting the later in the day the bulk of the stored heat will be released in to the room. Hope this helps


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## redtaz

Folks,

Have been scouring your posts for info about one of my Creda Supaslim Combi Heaters (Model No. 79358S, Cat. No. TSR18CW) that isn't taking charge overnight. I've opened it up and compared it to the second one in the apartment which is working fine. Nothing of note there.

What I did do though, was swap the Input Thermostat from the dodgy heater with that from the working heater, last night. This morning, we had heat coming from the previously bad heater and none from the good one.
That was the only work I did on them yesterday, so I can only assume that I have a bad switch. Has anyone seen a switch go bad in the past?

I did notice that the contacts on the Input switch do not open when the knob is dialled down. If you gently put some pressure down on the knob it pushes the small rod (which touches one of the contact arms) causing the contacts to open. I set the Input knob to 6 last night and ensured that the contacts were closed, but as I said, no heat this morning. Not sure about the technology used in these switches. Just looks like a bi-metallic strip alright, as one previous contributor suggested. My assumption is that once you have set the knob to the desired input (in our case, due to the cold weather at the moment, we have it at 6), the contacts are closed and you do not need to mess with the setting again - until you decide you do not need a full charge at night, as the weather gets milder. Since there was no heat today, I can only assume that proper contact is not being made OR is there some other reason why it would not work??

Going to clean the contacts and re-install it today and test again tonight.......will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

Anyone else seen this issue in the past? If so, and if it is a case for replacing the Input Thermostat, does anyone know where you might get one? 

Your help would be greatly appreciated.


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## redtaz

In case anyone is interested, we have heat this morning! Cleaned the contacts with a bit of sandpaper yesterday and re-installed into the heater. Last night I set the heaters up to maximum input and this morning the apartment is toasty warm...........particularly good since the place is covered in snow and currently it's falling hard. 

Hope this helps others.


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## Gondola

posted in error


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## Gondola

Gondola said:


> the building and sometimes they are placed in the wrong location it can drive the controller nuts.They can be tested for continuity or resistance value by electrician. these units are great when they work but are a real pain when they dont. Connection diagram can be downloaded by searching on Google for DEVIREG 710-2. if they are working correctly many people think their heaters are coming on late when in fact the unit has decided that less heating charge time is required and delays the switch on period for the storage heaters.


 
Very good explanation boomer3. It makes A LOT of sense now. Do you know how I can locate the unit mounted outside? And what would be a 'wrong place'?


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## ts2252

Hi Redtaz,

Did you manage to find the spare thermostat - if so, please can you tell where from.  I have similar issues that you have experienced with your storage heater.


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## redtaz

redtaz said:


> In case anyone is interested, we have heat this morning! Cleaned the contacts with a bit of sandpaper yesterday and re-installed into the heater. Last night I set the heaters up to maximum input and this morning the apartment is toasty warm...........particularly good since the place is covered in snow and currently it's falling hard.
> 
> Hope this helps others.


 

Hi ts2252, 

Never found a replacement I'm afraid, all I did was above........fortunately, that worked for me.

Good luck with it.


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## Galley1

Thank god someone knows what im talking about. I live in a 3 bed apartment with huge ESB bills and am frezzzzing cold! I have been onto the ESB and the management company for the past 2 years about this and not 1 person knows what im talking about. I finally got access to my meter and found that my night time meter was not switching on till sometime during the night and the devireg 710-2 does not switch over till around 4am. Would this be the reason for my high ESB bills do you know??? please help


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## MindFast

Hi all,

I moved into a new apt as well, took me ages to figure out what the Devi Reg does but I managed thanx to boomer3. Thanx boomer.

Now that this is sorted I thought I would try out the storage heaters see if they are working ok. There is two in the gaff one of them has two switches next to it. One switch turns on anytime so I thought that would be the switch for the peak times.

I left that one off and switched on the other one that wouldn't come on thinking that it will probably work after midnight when the off-peak rate kicks in. Switch did not come on at midnight. Checked again at 2:00am before I went to bed, the switch light was still not on. Woke up this morning...Heaters cold as ice.

I am wondering, am I not gettind night rate here, is that possible? Checked the meter downstairs, has a night and a day indication alright. Or is it that the heater is not wired properly? Or is it something different altogether? What would I need to do to check?

I am worried it's gonna be something dead simple and if I call an electrician he'll charge me a full call-out for something I could have done myself!


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## saturdayrant

Hi All,
I have combined storage/convection heaters (Dimplex XMC724N), and just recently got a dual meter so the storage heater part should work. However, they're not coming on. Not an immediate problem but needless to say I would like to get them working before winter. A devi reg 710-2 is controlling my storage heaters and as I understand it, the heaters aren't coming on because the outside temperature is too high. However, the little light on the day side of the devireg is flashing rapidly red and green, while the light on the night side is flashing on and off red. Is this OK? 

Also, an earlier post indicated I could get an instruction manual for the devireg if I google it. All I can find on google is a devireg 710, which is different and seems to refer to underfloor heating. I've e-mailed devireg UK buit no response so far. devireg ireland seems to have closed down. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## johnnyboy83

Hi There,

I have a Creda TSR18CW storage heater and need help figuring out how to use it - having read previous posts I kinda think it's either broken or I'm just not using it correctly.

I have 2 switches on the wall beside the heater (neither of which have LED lights). One of theses switches activates the fan heater so that I have instant heat, so I am assuming that the other one activates the storage heating setting??? Additionally I have the input and output dials on the top of the heater.

However I also have an IMIT TA3 thermostat mounted on the wall (not really sure if this is anything to do with the heater - and if so what temp should it be at?).

I also have that DeviReg thingy in my fuse box with the day and night settings -4 -2 0 +2 +4. The 2 dials are set at the 0 setting. However, the green light on the day setting is on constantly while a little red light flashes on the night one...this is the case all day long - green one never turns off and red is constantly flashing. Does this mean it's broken, is this my problem?

Anyway, having read through previous posts I turned the switch on at the wall (the one that doesnt give instant heat) and turned the input dial to 4 and left the output one at 2. Input one clicks at 4 and has the tiniest bit of resistance, while the output one moves freely with no clicks or any hint that it could be attached to something. Left this on all night in the hope that when i woke up this morning I might have some heat...unfortunately the place was still freezing.

Am I doing something wrong? Is my storage heater broken or is it something completely different?

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated as the place is freezing and I can't seem to figure out what's wrong with the thing.

Cheers


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## Jetblue

johnnyboy, I'm in a rush now but will get back to you tomorrow. You're on the right track but the flashing red light on the Devi will go on solid red when it is charging the heater. There is usually a temp sensor mounted outside somewhere and connected to the devi too.


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## johnnyboy83

Thanks Jetblue,

I've tried again tonight by putting both input and output to max settings and turned up the thermostat on the wall so hopefully it might do something tonight...wont get my hopes up though.

I'll let ya know if it works


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## spwizard

Hi JohnnyBoy83/Jetblue,

Sorry to butt in here. I'm looking for some advice too with my storage heating, it's a similar problem (I think).

The storage heaters have been working properly for the past 8 years but this autumn when I turned them on again they hadn't been heating up/charging up until last weekend. From reading above this could be to do with the external temp probe. However it seems that they're heating up during the day now?!

There is minimal heat coming out in the morning and the red-light on the wall switch beside the heater is not on in the morning. (For the past 8 years that red-light at the wall switch used to be on in the morning when I got up ~6:30am). 

Now there is plenty of heat coming out in the evening and last Sunday I noticed that the red-light at the wall switch was illuminated at 1 o'clock in the day. At the time I checked the Devi and the 'Day' light was red too (it's normally green). So I suspect that the heaters are charging during the day rather than the night.

Is this possible? How could I check this? I recently changed to Bord Gais supply, could this be the reason? I'm going to keep a note of the reading from the meter to see if there's a large amount of power consumed during the day (when the only appliance turned on is the fridge). 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## Jetblue

Hi spwiz, at least your heater IS working! So your problem is easily diagnosed and fixed.
There is a timeclock which controls the hours that the storage heating can charge up! If you live in a private house this clock will be beside your meter in the cabinet, if an apartment block then usually all the meters and timeclock are together. Usually placed in an enclosure in a common hallway however I have seen them hidden in a plantroom too. 
Note: if you live in an apt with dualtariff metering and your timeclock time settings are wrong you are probably paying nightrate prices for day units and vice versa.
Anyway these timeclocks are the property of the Esb(as are the meters) and are sealed with a lead seal. Ring them and they will come out and correct the time or probably replace the clock, they do go faulty.

Apologies if i'm a little incoherent this morning, flu I think.


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## johnnyboy83

hey Jestblue and spwizard,

I HAVE HEAT!!! 
I have absolutely no idea what i did differently to the previous night but there was heat coming out of the heater this morning.

I think there could be a connection problem with the input switch coz i pressed down on this really hard and heard a little click when I was turning it...similar to the click I was getting on the output switch when I was turning it.

My only question now is - do I need to turn off the switch at the wall during the day, or do I leave it on? 

If I leave the switch on will the heater keep storing heat and thus give me a huge bill coz I'm into using day units - or does it know only to store at night time??? Or do I leave the switch on and simply turn down the input switch and turn up the output one?

Sorry, I'm a complete retard when it comes to this whole storage heating thing...the next place is defo gonna be gas heating - so much easier to understand.


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## Jetblue

Lads,

Here's a post I have copied from another site. It explains the Devireg 710-2 operation very clearly, I think.

"the white box on the outside of your apartment is the temperature sensor for your storage heating. It tells the thermostat on your fuse board the outside air temperature and then the thermostat adjusts the amount of charge taken in. The Devireg™ 710-2 is used to regulate accumulating heating systems (Storage Heaters) where low-tariff rate electricity is available.
The Devireg 710-2 is an energy saving device for storage heaters that offers the user a completely automated system, whereby the controller makes adjustments automatically to the amount of charge taken in. This is done by way of an outdoor temperature sensor.

The 710-2 anticipates how much of a charge is to take in, by taking readings from the outside sensor, this charge is then automatically taken in by the stat at its most cost efficient time.

Note: The low tariff times in Ireland are

In winter time the charge is from 11.00pm to 8.00am
In summer time the charge is from 12.00am to 9.00 am

Eg. It’s November (Winter time)

The outside temperature is +2oC; the Devireg 710-2 estimates that a 70% charge is needed in order to hit the desired temp for the next day, this works out at a 4hr and 50min charge. The 710-2 then decides to “Back Charge” this required time. So it begins to charge at 3.10am and switches off at 8.00am, this relates in to a saving of 30% for that night."

Thanks Eoin!

Johnnyboy,

Your storage heater will only charge up when the Esb timeclock allows it to do so, the timeclock will call in the cheap rate electricity so even if your heater was charging during day hours it would be doing so using cheap units.

I would only turn the isolating switch off during the summer months when you don't want any heat
I would turn up the input switch to the max, the Devireg is limiting the charge time anyway.
I would switch the output switch to 0 or 1 when going to bed and turn it up high when I get back to the house after work and I need the most heat. Keeping the output low during the day should retain the most heat in the heater till you need it most, in the evening.


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## spwizard

Thanks Jetblue for explaining how the system works, it's a lot more complex that I first thought but you've made it clear. 

I've been keeping an eye on the meter readings and charge-up times. It appears that the heaters are indeed charging during the day but still at the night rate. This has pro's and con's (i.e. nice and toasty in the evening Vs not too warm in the morning). I can live with it, in fact getting it 'fixed' could lead to the rooms being cooler in the evening as the 'charge/heat dissipates during the day. Swings and roundabouts really. Do you know if the ESB charge to fix this?


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## Jetblue

Hi Sp,
If the lead seal is intact on the timeclock then the esb have no grounds for any arguements, it's just a faulty timeclock! If the seal is broken/missing then the system may have been tampered with. Saying that, I've never known them to hassle anyone unless they have evidence ie: that they have been calling regularly to monitor the settings.
They don't charge any fee to call out and replace the clock, it's in their interest to do it, as you've worked out!
As regard the pros and cons, are you living in an apt or house? In apts the water may be heated by an immersion, this immersion is controlled by a timeclock in the apt which is set to bring on the immersion during the off peak hours. ie: Water might start to heat at 6.30 am to give you hot water for a morning shower. However you may now be paying "dayunit" prices for this heated water. This is especially applicable during summer months when you are using water and not space heating.
You need to have a good look at a years previous bills to assess which way you're better off!
Also, in apt blocks there is usually only one esb timeclock for all the apts, so all your neighbours are in the exact same boat.

On a rant, as an ex esb employee, it always shocks me how negligent meter readers are when it comes to checking  seals and timeclock settings.


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## spwizard

Hi Jetblue (& storage heater users),

Just an update on my storage heater timer encounter. I checked the seal and it hadn't been tampered with and the 'timer' continued to turn on in the afternoon/evenings (but still apparently using night-units). 

Today though the heaters didn't charge and I've noticed a burning/melting plastic smell in the hall. The switch for 'Storage Heating' has tripped and there's a fair bit of deformed plastic around it, so much so that the screw-in fuse holder beside it has moved a bit. I'm in an apartment block, only 9 years old, so the wiring etc should be fine. I'll call an electrician and get this looked at.

Could the erratic timings of the heaters been a warning sign?


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## Jetblue

YES, CALL A GOOD SPARK STRAIGHT AWAY!!

Any indication of heat or burning smell from a fuse/mcb board is BAD! and must be investigated thoroughly IMMEDIATLY!

I'ts rarely seems popular to advise someone on AAM or and other Boards websites to call in a professional to do a job rather than tackling it diy and saving money.
However where Electricity is concerned all professionals know that SAFETY is by far the most important element of any electrical job.
In other trades such as plumbing, carpentry etc the consequences of a bad job may be costly and inconvenient but they are rarely fatal. In electrical work they may be.


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## spwizard

Hi JetBlue,

I got the number of a spark from a friend yesterday evening. However things took a turn for the worst last night when, at about 3am, the power went completely from the apartment (I was woken by the burglar alarm signalling 'Mains Fault'). 

I disabled the alarm (thankfully the back-up battery prevented the bell box going off) and flicked-off the main supply trip switch. A sleepless night ensued. I contacted the spark first thing this morning. He found that the main supply wires on the fuse board (into the screw-in fuse) had been overloaded and generated enough heat to melt the plastic from the wire and just about any plastic nearby. 

He said it could have been due to loose connections but when I told him about the storage heaters charging during the day he suggested that there may have been excessive loads on the wire at weekends. Considering that the heaters were charging whilst several loads of washing, oven, kettle and occasionally the tumble drier were potentially all on the go at once over the course of the last few weekends, it sounds plausible to me. Needless to say I've arranged for the ESB to fix the timer 

So if the daytime charging, combined with hectic weekend household activity, contributed to the overload then that's certainly something I hadn't considered when weighing up the pros & cons of the timer problem.

What do you reckon about the diagnosis?


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## Jetblue

Yes, that sounds plausible! but!
The supply cable is normally sized for an 80amp load, the main fuse is usually 63amp.
Certainly the cable shouldn't have been supplying to a fuse with a greater rating than it's current carrying capacity.
If your installation is overloaded then the main incoming fuse should blow at the fuseboard.
Insulation melting off a cable at a termination such as a fuseholder would indicate a loose connection to me. The heat is generated by the resistance of the connection and transmitted along the cable. There would usually be discoloration and damage at the connection too.
All fuseholders, mcb's and distribution boards are not created equal! There are quality and price differences between manufacturers.
Termination points and clamps do come slightly loose with age also, this effect is more noticable with terminations that are subject to high currents(compared to rating) and especially if the current varies a great deal, ie: heating and cooling effect.

Does all this make sense?

If I were you I would be reassured if the spark has replaced the main fuse holder and checked/tightened the rest of the terminations in the board.


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## Jetblue

OH, and remember you're in an apt block aren't you so when the esb change the timeclock it will affect all your storage heating using neighbours too, won't it?
and have any of them suffered similar probs to yourself?


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## spwizard

The end of the saga:
It appears that the ESB came and changed/fixed the clock during the week as the heaters are charging during the night now. To be honest I don't know if my neighbours had the same problems, I rarely see them, but I'm curious and will ask  next time I bump into one in the corridor. Thanks for sharing your knowledge JetBlue.


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## andycole9

Hi all. I have read through alot of the posts and most things make sense. I have a few other questions though. i have three storage heaters in my apt, one of which is a combi, i.e. it has a manual fan. By manual though, i mean i can turn it on once the ESB night rates kick in, about 23.00 each night. i would have thought that the whole idea behind a manual option, is that i could turn it on when i wanted to. Does anyone have one of these Creda combi storage heaters? 

I have tried to put the input at 6 and output at 1 over night tonight and will then increase output tomorrow evening and see if that makes a difference on the other two heaters. As a general rule of thumb, should i leave input at 6 all the time and output at 1 overnight, increasing it in the evening to release the heat? Also, can i leave the main switch on, all the time? It only costs once 23.00 comes along and the red light comes on, right?

Finally, i have two electric mounted heaters with timers. Again, is it ok to leave the main power switch on, all the time but since i have it on timer, it will only cost me when the heater flicks on per the timing i have it set to?

Thanks for your help


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## 14Sarsfield

Hello,

I recently moved into my new rented flat and it has Creda storage heaters - TSR18acw and TSR12mwv.
I set the input to full overnight and left the output closed but when i got up this morning I opened the output and no heat is coming out. I have tried closing the input but still no heat comes out. Have I done something wrong, do I need to heat for more than one night or does it sound like my heaters are broken. Is there anyway to carry out maintenance on the heater myself if not where can I call to get someone to have a look at it,

Thank you

Any help would be greatly appreciated

David

Dublin


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## Jetblue

Is the flex outlet on the wall beside the heater switched on?
Are all the Mcb's in the distribution board "ON"?

Call your landlord, surely the apt had heat during the recent prolonged cold period.


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## G.Headwound

*Adventures in storage heating electriciblastifundibulums*

The missus and I just moved into a new place in Nov with 3 storage heaters. The oddness abounds...

At first we were getting no electricity to the heaters, day or night. We got the contactor replaced and voila! heat was being stored galore, BUT...


We discovered that the day/night timer (at the meter) was set to have "night" start ~12.30 and end at ~21.30.
Regardless of "night" or "day", the storage heaters were constantly ON, in that they always getting juice and weren't getting switched off from "night" to "day". It's easy to test this if you have a phase tester and access to the electrical panel, but even if you don't (like we didn't), you can *easily* tell by the rate at which the meter is running if you have access to that.
So, at least we have heat (and good thing too, 'cause it's COLD!), but if we want to not pay a fortune for it, we have to go around and switch the storage on/off at the wall at the appropriate times... not an ideal situation if we're not home at 12.30 and 21.30.

So I had a look at the panel. Indeed, the electrician who replaced the contactor had set the "day" knob on the controller to "CONST" which I discovered, after reading this *epic *thread, means "CONSTANT", is used for testing, etc., etc.

So, I turned the "day" knob to 0 (vertical) and immediately the contactor clicked over (i.e. it turned off, which was good as it was ~20.00 last night when I did this - which, according to our meter timer, is "night"). Problem solved, thought I! I was quite wrong.

About 20 mins later and about every 20 mins after that, the contactor clicks over again. I say "about every 20 mins" because the controller has become, for all intents and purposes, a petulant teenager, wantonly flipping the switch at random - perhaps whenever it gets bored - and blatantly ignoring any instruction from the meter timer as to what it should or shouldn't be doing. It has a setting for "night" as well but there is no knob, just some graduations around  a vacuous hole from which it issues silent yet insidious taunts.

Anyone have any idea where to go from here?

I have an illustrative image of the panel, but I don't have enough posts to link to it, so... *shrug*

tl;dr

*Storage heaters are switching on and off at the panel every 20 mins or so.*


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## G.Headwound

*Tariffs*



sueellen said:


> *Ocras
> Frequent poster
> Optimum use of Storage Heating.*
> 
> {snip}
> 
> 4. On the subject of combination heaters; In my personal opinion they are terrible. They have nothing to do with the storage heater. They are a separate convector heater, stuck on to the front of the storage heater, and run only on the high ESB tariff, day or night.
> 
> {snip}



I'm not sure what the "high ESB tariff" *Ocras* is referring to if it's something other than the "day" tariff. Perhaps tariffs have changed since 2002?

From what I've gathered, the day and night tariffs are regulated by a timer switch that feeds the dual day/night meter (in the older, non-digital systems) according to the timer's setting (and the on/off tabs on the dial face) at the entry point to each residence. Whatever the timer is currently at, that's the tariff you're getting throughout. 

I.e. If it's "night", *all electricity you use *inside your residence is on the "night" tariff, including all convection (boost) heating; likewise for "day".

If anyone knows otherwise, please advise!

Since the controller in my _electrical panel _is set to "CONSTANT", the storage heaters are constantly getting electricity to store heat, regardless of what time it is.


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## Hihifrds

hi,

I have a storage heater problem myself which is particularly strange given that the heaters all worked fine until yesterday and that the problem has affected 3 heater simultaneously.

Up until yesterday, the 3 heaters were storing heat from 11pm until 7am. The red light lit up to indicate this.

Then yesterday they lit up (started charging) at 8am and had I not switched them off, they would have still been charging after 8pm.

I turned them on again just before 11pm to see if they would charge as normal, but they didn't charge overnight. They lit up at 8am.

They are still working fine, releasing heat well, but only charging during the day. So it will cost me twice as much for the same amount of heat if I don't do something about it.

I have had them for around a year and they have worked perfectly up til now. The fact that it is affecting all 3 at once implies a problem with the esb box, which hasn't been changed lately. The fuse box looks fine too.

if anybody has any nuggets on this one I'd bow to your superior knowledge.


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## coquito

I need help. Am on committee of local community building which is 13 years old with combination of storage/convection heating. Never had a problem with the heating until about two years ago and now we have complaints about the place being cold. Do these heaters lose their efficiency? Always found the controls iffy, do the newer heaters have better controls? What are the alternatives to storage heaters? Can't have gas or oil, no place to put a tank, has to be electric. Would appreciate help asap.


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## Coyner

*Storage heater works one night a year!*

Hi,
Can someone please enlighten me here! My storage heater in my apartment works one night a year...the same night for the last three years! There is another storage heater in the apartment that seems to work ok. I rang the ESB and they say that because my meter is switching between day and night units, it's not their issue. I've asked an electrician (not a very good one) and he didn't have a clue. Any ideas?


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