# After Covid



## Cervelo

For some unknown reason I got a call from my doctor for my first vaccination, not sure why I'm getting it now but I'm not complaining
Now that I've had the first jab my thoughts are starting to focus on life after covid and everything returning to normal
And like most people I'm looking forward to doing a few things that we have been unable to do for the past year like going to the cinema, eating out and travel
But I'm wondering what are the things that people are not looking forward to returning to normal??

I've two at the moment 
Increased traffic on our roads and the noise that comes with that and how it will affect my cycling
The door bell ringing on an afternoon with an unexpected visitor popping over for a cuppa and a chat when you have other plans for the afternoon


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## Purple

Cervelo said:


> But I'm wondering what are the things that people are not looking forward to returning to normal??
> 
> I've two at the moment
> Increased traffic on our roads and the noise that comes with that and how it will affect my cycling
> The door bell ringing on an afternoon with an unexpected visitor popping over for a cuppa and a chat when you have other plans for the afternoon


You sound like a bit of a grump, if you don't mind me saying.


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## Cervelo

Purple said:


> You sound like a bit of a grump, if you don't mind me saying.


Only a "bit of a grump", you should have a chat with the OH she'll give you the full story


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## joe sod

A lot of marriage and relationship break ups coming , the normal scaffolding and release valves of normal functioning society were removed. Many people will embrace the freedom of single life after this. Inflation and rapid price increases of everything. A lot of people used to sitting at home , not having to goto work and all that, be difficult to get them back into work especially into lower paid menial jobs, therefore have to pay more which again leads to higher prices.


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## EasilyAmused

I expect prices to rise. People have not been spending and have been saving at low interest rates. It’s already happened with the housing market. Heard some “back to Celtic Tiger price levels” in some headline. The same will apply to other things in limited supply. 
Taxes will rise to pay for the pandemic.

A lot of the benefits of the lockdowns, like more exercise and slower pace of life, will be forgotten in a year or so. Just like the post CT reality check.

All the bad habits of old will return.

Climate change will continue unabated.


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## Purple

The Government spends over 50% of our GNI so they will be the main drivers of inflation, if there is such a thing.


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## noproblem

Cervelo said:


> 've two at the moment
> Increased traffic on our roads and the noise that comes with that and how it will affect my cycling
> The door bell ringing on an afternoon with an unexpected visitor popping over for a cuppa and a chat when you have other plans for the afternoon


Know exactly what you mean Cervelo. The main thing i've missed is the travelling which i'll be doing towards the end of the season, around end Sept,/Oct. One thing I won't be doing is the Cinema or the pub and as for neighbours calling over? Hopefully they don't even consider it, I know I won't be visiting any for a very long time. I see enough of them and no i'm not in any way a grump. As long as my own family and friends are in my loop I couldn't give a toss. One thing that in no way will surprise me is,  we could very, very easily find ourselves in another lockdown. We all know the real lockdown has been over for a few weeks now, God only knows what some eejits will get up to now, and i'm not talking about teenagers either. Good luck to everyone especially older people who haven't met family for a long time. Enjoy it while it lasts


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## almostthere

I will visit the dentist and optician, not looking forward to it though. I know I can do these now but I will feel safer as things return to normal. I will have a pint, but in the afternoon when the pub is almost empty. I will get down on my hands and knees and open up the box of toys for my grand children that haven't been opened in over a year. Our grand children will visit and they will stay over with us.

I am looking forward to travelling on holidays again but not looking forward to busy airports and packed planes, early morning flights......but I need to travel.
Not looking forward having some jobs done around the house that will involve tradesmen and all that involves. I can't do these myself but they will need to be done.


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## Purple

almostthere said:


> I will visit the dentist and optician, not looking forward to it though.


I've been to both since the lockdown(s). No problems at all.


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## Purple

I'm not looking forward to travelling for work. I haven't been on a plane in a year and a half and I haven't missed it.


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## RichInSpirit

Get a hair cut. The hairdresser was busy when I called last November or December so didn't get a trim since last July or August.


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## EasilyAmused

Cervelo said:


> But I'm wondering what are the things that people are not looking forward to returning to normal??



I don’t fly much and I don’t like all the queuing in airports. 
The Covid vaccine certificate queue will be another layer of standing around. 
Which will mean getting to the airport that bit earlier.

Why don’t they put webcams in airports so we can assess how busy they are before leaving the house?


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## EasilyAmused

joe sod said:


> A lot of marriage and relationship break ups coming , the normal scaffolding and release valves of normal functioning society were removed.



Bill Gates, eh?!


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## Cervelo

Speaking of air travel, saw this the other day and thought it was amusing 









						World's Funniest Flight Attendant Leaves Passengers In Hysterics
					

ID: 1557326World's Funniest Flight Attendant Leaves Passengers In HystericsSubscribe to Caters Clips: http://bit.ly/CatersClipsSubscribe A man has been dubbe...




					www.youtube.com


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## joe sod

EasilyAmused said:


> Bill Gates, eh?!


Yes exactly, we are indulging in schadenfreude now   , still it can't be the pressures of covid, working from home stuff that affected them , they could have a mansion to themselves anyways with their wealth. In a way the aristocrats were right all along, why could they not just stay together and just pretend. But they are reaping what they sowed now with the whole social media phenomenon


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## Purple

joe sod said:


> still it can't be the pressures of covid, working from home stuff that affected them , they could have a mansion to themselves anyways with their wealth.


Well the gaff is 60,000 square feet so I'm sure they can keep out of each others way.


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## Leo

EasilyAmused said:


> Why don’t they put webcams in airports so we can assess how busy they are before leaving the house?



We don't all live 5 mins from the airport!


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## EasilyAmused

Purple said:


> I'm not looking forward to travelling for work.



AFAIK if you can WFH and you want to, you can.


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## Purple

EasilyAmused said:


> AFAIK if you can WFH and you want to, you can.


I mean the getting on airplane type of travelling.


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## Paul O Mahoney

No doubt many will return to the usual narrative of blaming the ills of the world on people they have never met .

Pragmatism/Altruism will yet again end up in the ditch...humanity will have "dodged another bullet " only to survive and create the same reasons why the pandemic happened in the first place.

Those reasons include abject poverty of billions and an planet dying more every day. 

And when the next pandemic arrives, and it will we will repeat what we just done...... and so on and on.

We really need to develop a different way of doing things , the planet has enough to feed and shelter everyone and as scientists have shown when we have a common goal/threat we do great things....for a while 

I have my dreams and understand the reality its a pity they'll never merge.

And of course I ll be having a creamy pint of Guinness.


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## EasilyAmused

Cervelo said:


> But I'm wondering what are the things that people are not looking forward to returning to normal??



One of the things I’ve relished the most during lockdown is the restaurant standard steaks and fish in butchers and fishmongers. 

I picked up a couple of t-bones steaks during the week and the fillet side was nearly as big as the sirloin side. And I’ve been buying these regularly since March of last year. You can actually walk into a butchers and expect to get such a t-bone. 
Normally it would be pure chance to get one of those. And that’s just t-bones. The same can be said for so many other cuts of meat. Lots of marbling too. 

Likewise in the fishmongers. I’ve only every seen such big plaice, John Dory, sea bass, red mullet, etc, in restaurants. But now and only for another few weeks they’re available to us all.

I’ll miss those culinary treasures.


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## joe sod

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Pragmatism/Altruism will yet again end up in the ditch...humanity will have "dodged another bullet " only to survive and create the same reasons why the pandemic happened in the first place.
> 
> Those reasons include abject poverty of billions and an planet dying more every day.


but thats not the reason why the pandemic happened, we still don't know how it started, remember.  There is one theory basically accepted now that it started in the "wet market" in Wuhan. Those "wet markets" are not because of abject poverty because it still costs money to smuggle exotic animals from Africa. China is now a superpower , it is not a country in "abject poverty" and uniquely largely succeeded even though a highly populous country in suppressing the virus. That explanation might have been acceptable in the 60s or 70s under Mao but not today


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## EasilyAmused

joe sod said:


> but thats not the reason why the pandemic happened, we still don't know how it started, remember.



I assume @Paul O Mahoney is referring to our destruction of the environment, not Wuhan.
AFAIK there have been more pandemics in the last 20 years than in the entire 20th century. And most of these can be attributed to humans encroaching on wild areas.

On a side note, it seems that the positive effect of the lockdowns on the environment has been short lived.


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## Paul O Mahoney

joe sod said:


> but thats not the reason why the pandemic happened, we still don't know how it started, remember.  There is one theory basically accepted now that it started in the "wet market" in Wuhan. Those "wet markets" are not because of abject poverty because it still costs money to smuggle exotic animals from Africa. China is now a superpower , it is not a country in "abject poverty" and uniquely largely succeeded even though a highly populous country in suppressing the virus. That explanation might have been acceptable in the 60s or 70s under Mao but not today


You clearly have never visited China Joe, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong to name 3 aren't representative of the rest of the country , a City like Hangzhou about 11m people and 600 kms East of Wuhan looks very shiny but when you walk the city poverty is in full view and is adject. Go further into China and poverty is even more stark. 
If you believe that China contained the virus you really need to research more and not take the word of a totalitarian regime.

Mankind is encroaching and destroying more of the natural world and this is causing more and more diseases and if you look at the recent breakout of Ebola it was again in countries where poverty is abject and where clean water is a luxury. 

Of course add in "Globalisation " and we have all the ingredients for more and more frequent pandemics and one will evate all our scientific capabilities what then?


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## Purple

Humans have always destroyed their environment. When the first farmers arrived in the West of Ireland the Burren was a forest. Human intervention is what turned it into a slab of rock (all be a very nice slab of rock). The first people in Australia burned down most of the forest. People had only been in New Zealand a short time and managed to burn down a third of the forests there in less than a thousand years. The Woolly Mammoth survived many severe ice ages only to be hunted to extinction by humans less than 2500 years ago. In fact we wiped out all of the large predators and largest game in the Americas, Europe and most of Asia before we'd invented the wheel, metal tools or writing.
The problem now is there are so many of us and we consume so much more.


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## Cervelo

Purple said:


> The problem now is there are so many of us and we consume so much more.


And with the current population near or at 8 billion and an estimated 2 to 3 billion been added by 2050
I think I read somewhere that we are now classed as outbreak species and with an extra two plus billion to feed, clothe and house
I don't think you need to be a genius to work out where we are heading


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## Purple

Cervelo said:


> And with the current population near or at 8 billion and an estimated 2 to 3 billion been added by 2050
> I think I read somewhere that we are now classed as outbreak species and with an extra two plus billion to feed, clothe and house
> I don't think you need to be a genius to work out where we are heading


Forecasts are that the population will max out at around 10.5 billion and then start to decline again. There are more than enough resources to feed, cloth and house that many people if we choose to behave responsibly.


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## Cervelo

But is that not what the problem is, we are not behaving responsibly


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## seamus m

Rip off Ireland at its finest dry  haircut now 18 euro was 14 safepass now 200 was 120 in 2018 I hope the staff are watching the prices and pushing raises they will need them!


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## Paul O Mahoney

Purple said:


> Forecasts are that the population will max out at around 10.5 billion and then start to decline again. There are more than enough resources to feed, cloth and house that many people if we choose to behave responsibly.


I've been saying this for so long I thought I going mad, and this isn't socialist thinking, if trade was conducted in a manner that " everyone got something " from the relationship it would really " rise all boats" . Seeing children extracting cobalt in sub-human conditions just isn't right and this is only one example. 

I'm still hoping that this pandemic might begin the change process but all we see is tokenism particularly in the area of vaccines.
 I don't agree with the suspension of patents but equally I don't agree with massive deals being struck by "richer countries " when billions still await any type of treatment.


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## Purple

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I've been saying this for so long I thought I going mad, and this isn't socialist thinking, if trade was conducted in a manner that " everyone got something " from the relationship it would really " rise all boats" . Seeing children extracting cobalt in sub-human conditions just isn't right and this is only one example.
> 
> I'm still hoping that this pandemic might begin the change process but all we see is tokenism particularly in the area of vaccines.
> I don't agree with the suspension of patents but equally I don't agree with massive deals being struck by "richer countries " when billions still await any type of treatment.


I'm still of the view that me, in my late 40's, getting a vaccine before an 80 year old anywhere else in the world is morally reprehensible.

If we can't do the right thing when it comes to something so binary and simple how will we ever do the right thing when it comes to things like making purchasing and lifestyle decisions based on the impact of up-stream supply chains?

If we won't do the right thing when it comes to vaccines so that we can get a haircut sooner how will we ever change our food and clothing purchase preferences as they are the biggest drivers of climate change?  

Climate change is a much bigger issue than Covid19. In fact Covid19 is just a minor symptom of Climate change.


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## Paul O Mahoney

Purple said:


> I'm still of the view that me, in my late 40's, getting a vaccine before an 80 year old anywhere else in the world is morally reprehensible.
> 
> If we can't do the right thing when it comes to something so binary and simple how will we ever do the right thing when it comes to things like making purchasing and lifestyle decisions based on the impact of up-stream supply chains?
> 
> If we won't do the right thing when it comes to vaccines so that we can get a haircut sooner how will we ever change our food and clothing purchase preferences as they are the biggest drivers of climate change?
> 
> Climate change is a much bigger issue than Covid19. In fact Covid19 is just a minor symptom of Climate change.


I've thought about that ie getting the vaccine before others older than me especially in poorer countries but whilst many would agree I view it like putting on your oxygen mask before your children in a plane emergency. 
If the vaccine producing countries weren't vaccinated first who would produce?
And would the truly needy/elderly get them?
Corruption is another pandemic the WHO while well intentioned, really have no power nor does the UN/ Unicef .

I'm afraid there are very few willing to change anything and that's what is frustrating , I'll safely say this the vast majority would prefer a level playing field.

Suppose really the only thing us individuals can do is make their little piece of the world and Society and little bit better and hope is catches on.


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## Purple

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I've thought about that ie getting the vaccine before others older than me especially in poorer countries but whilst many would agree I view it like putting on your oxygen mask before your children in a plane emergency.


It's more like finishing the movie you are watching then putting the oxygen mask on your children. 
I am at almost no risk from Covid19.  The same goes for everyone else under 50 who isn't sick already. There is no medical justification for vaccinating me ahead of the sick and vulnerable in other countries. There is no reason, economic, social or other that justifies it. It is simply a case of valuing our convenience more than the lives of people in other parts of the world. 

This is something simple and tangible that we can actually do now that will save lives... but we are choosing not to because it doesn't suit us., because it's mildly inconvenient. 

In that context talk of climate change, child labour and inequality from us all ring very hollow.


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## Purple

Paul O Mahoney said:


> If the vaccine producing countries weren't vaccinated first who would produce?


What, like India?
The EU has exported half of the vaccines we have produced. The USA and UK have exported none worth talking about.


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> Rip off Ireland at its finest dry  haircut now 18 euro was 14 safepass now 200 was 120 in 2018 I hope the staff are watching the prices and pushing raises they will need them!


And there has been no change to the barbers shop or the numbers allowed into a room for the safepass course?


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## Firefly

Herself went to the hairdressers yesterday. All's grand in the house again


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## Purple

Firefly said:


> Herself went to the hairdressers yesterday. All's grand in the house again


Do you recognise her again?


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## Firefly

Purple said:


> Do you recognise her again?


Not really


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## Purple

Firefly said:


> Not really


Covid Stone?


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## Prosper

@Firefly @Purple Careful lads, careful !!


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## Purple

Firefly said:


> Not really


I should have been clearer; I meant do you recognise her physically, not after all these years do you recognise her as the women you married.


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## EasilyAmused

Purple said:


> I'm still of the view that me, in my late 40's, getting a vaccine before an 80 year old anywhere else in the world is morally reprehensible.



“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”

— Albert Einstein


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> And there has been no change to the barbers shop or the numbers allowed into a room for the safepass course?


The change will be a lot will do what they done for last 18 months and as regards safe pass they still will have to be done so it's only time issue and full classes untill caught up on.Covid can't be used as excuse to drive everything up and still pay very little wages.A lot of businesses weren't much worse off and  got to spend a lot of quality time at home no matter what they say.


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## Firefly

Purple said:


> I should have been clearer; I meant do you recognise her physically, not after all these years do you recognise her as the women you married.


Yip, still the same doll


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> The change will be a lot will do what they done for last 18 months and as regards safe pass they still will have to be done so it's only time issue and full classes untill caught up on.Covid can't be used as excuse to drive everything up and still pay very little wages.A lot of businesses weren't much worse off and got to spend a lot of quality time at home no matter what they say.



Seems to be nothing but speculation with no substance there. Has there been any changes in the layout or safety procedures in the barbers? Where was charging €120 for SafePass training that is now charging €200 and have class sizes or anything else that affects operating costs changed? The Eolas fee has risen of course, so if both examples included that you get part of the increase.


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> Seems to be nothing but speculation with no substance there. Has there been any changes in the layout or safety procedures in the barbers? Where was charging €120 for SafePass training that is now charging €200 and have class sizes or anything else that affects operating costs changed? The Eolas fee has risen of course, so if both examples included that you get part of the increase.


There's no speculation,the price is up.  of course it's class size but people will still have to get it. Haircut rise has to do with cleaning, thats what's on poster anyway


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> There's no speculation,the price is up.  of course it's class size but people will still have to get it. Haircut rise has to do with cleaning, thats what's on poster anyway



Ah right, so there are increased costs for the suppliers and a reduced income, but you're calling that a rip-off???


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## Paul O Mahoney

Purple said:


> What, like India?
> The EU has exported half of the vaccines we have produced. The USA and UK have exported none worth talking about.


India is a basket case , I mean they have everything to produce billions of doses , told Pfizer to run more trials in India, Pfizer told them " up your twist" AZ sent most of what they produced to Europe.

Modi allows millions do what they want and then starts whingin that supplies of materials are blocked, ok from the US they are but again India has the capability to produce that stuff.

It's vaccine was going to provide vaccines first for India herself and then the poorer countries? 

India is an example of arrogance in this pandemic and if that's an example of what other countries might do wrong it's a shining example


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## Purple

Leo said:


> Ah right, so there are increased costs for the suppliers and a reduced income, but you're calling that a rip-off???


This reminds me of people whining that everything is half the price in Spain as they are here. When they are told that yes, but wages in Spain are half what they are here too they don't see the connection.


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## Leo

Purple said:


> This reminds me of people whining that everything is half the price in Spain as they are here. When they are told that yes, but wages in Spain are half what they are here too they don't see the connection.



Yeah, it's just easier to blame greedy business owners rather than try to understand the costs of doing business here and doing something constructive about that.


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## seamus m

Purple said:


> This reminds me of people whining that everything is half the price in Spain as they are here. When they are told that yes, but wages in Spain are half what they are here too they don't see the connection.


The wages haven't gone up that's the point


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> Yeah, it's just easier to blame greedy business owners rather than try to understand the costs of doing business here and doing something constructive about that.


The issue is it's too dear to live for people on the minimum wage .I'm not as worried about business owners


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## Purple

seamus m said:


> The issue is it's too dear to live for people on the minimum wage .I'm not as worried about business owners


Most people on the minimum wage live in middle to high income households. No family is living on the minimum wage as they get FIS and other supports. The problem is that the State spends about half our GNI and the State is incredibly wasteful and inefficient. While that's the case there's little any of us can do to improve things. The Squeezed middle is being squeezed by State sponsored waste.


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> The issue is it's too dear to live for people on the minimum wage .I'm not as worried about business owners


Without business owners you have no jobs! Business owners face the same costs of living as the rest of us and rising costs of running their businesses. To accuse them of operating a rip-off without justification does nothing to spotlight the drivers behind their increased costs that impact all of us.


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> Without business owners you have no jobs! Business owners face the same costs of living as the rest of us and rising costs of running their businesses. To accuse them of operating a rip-off without justification does nothing to spotlight the drivers behind their increased costs that impact all of us.


You are trying to twist all the time .without hard working staff you don't have businesses the rip off Is in the increased prices a blind man would see them .wages are the same increased costs are other rip off businesses that you so want to protect.


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## seamus m

Purple said:


> Most people on the minimum wage live in middle to high income households. No family is living on the minimum wage as they get FIS and other supports. The problem is that the State spends about half our GNI and the State is incredibly wasteful and inefficient. While that's the case there's little any of us can do to improve things. The Squeezed middle is being squeezed by State sponsored waste.


There are plenty of working  people living on the  breadline maybe not in your world


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## Purple

seamus m said:


> You are trying to twist all the time .without hard working staff you don't have businesses the rip off Is in the increased prices a blind man would see them .wages are the same increased costs are other rip off businesses that you so want to protect.


That makes no sense. Rents are increasing, VAT has increased, insurance has increased significantly, raw materials have increased significantly for many businesses. Do you expect businesses to run at a loss or do you expect them to increase their prices as their costs increase?


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> You are trying to twist all the time .without hard working staff you don't have businesses the rip off Is in the increased prices a blind man would see them .wages are the same increased costs are other rip off businesses that you so want to protect.


I'm not. You claimed these businesses were operating a rip-off based on an anecdote of prices increasing without any acknowledgement of the impact of covid restrictions on how they currently operate, or on rising costs they face elsewhere in staff, supplies and government. Now that you can't provide any detail on the costs to those businesses you just claim they are being ripped off.


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> I'm not. You claimed these businesses were operating a rip-off based on an anecdote of prices increasing without any acknowledgement of the impact of covid restrictions on how they currently operate, or on rising costs they face elsewhere in staff, supplies and government. Now that you can't provide any detail on the costs to those businesses you just claim they are being ripped off.


There was nothing anecdotal about the 2 examples I saw and paid for or is it only your word that's gospel.My claim is that it's now dearer to live in Ireland and wages haven't gone up .It's my claim that businesses haven't  increased wages to minimum wage earners but have increased prices making Ireland unaffordable for said workers.Its your claim that it's justified .


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## Purple

seamus m said:


> There was nothing anecdotal about the 2 examples I saw and paid for or is it only your word that's gospel.My claim is that it's now dearer to live in Ireland and wages haven't gone up .It's my claim that businesses haven't  increased wages to minimum wage earners but have increased prices making Ireland unaffordable for said workers.Its your claim that it's justified .


No, you claimed that businesses are ripping people off. Others have said that their costs per transaction have increased so their charge per transaction have increased. Therefore it's not a rip-off. 

Affordability is a completely different thing. It's worth remembering that is a business is offering goods or services at price which their customers can't afford then the business will go bust. 
Therefore the issue which you are concerned with, and I agree with you on this, is income disparity or really net income disparity.


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## Cervelo

seamus m said:


> Rip off Ireland at its finest dry  haircut now 18 euro was 14


Back in the 80's I made the mistake of using "Wash & Gone" and by the mid 90's there was very little left for the Barber to cut.
IIRC back then a dry cut (#1 all over) was just under £10 Punts in the Trinity Barber every couple of weeks, 
So I'm quite surprised that 25+ years later it's only gone up by a relative small amount!!  
Nowadays the Gillette Fusion does both face and head and I never had a bad hair day since 95
Well except for the day I used a Merkur single blade razor


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## almostthere

Up until a few years ago I got my hair cut in a barber's in the Stillorgan area. Dry cut, old pharts rate, €8.  Unfortunately one of the staff nicked one of my ears and cut it when using their comb.  Another staff member would occasionally cough over you as he clipped away. Two years on and this cut has never fully healed....almost but not fully.

This barber's is no longer there but I had moved on elsewhere anyhow, and now pay €15.  There are still barber's offering the old pharts rate of below €10.


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> There was nothing anecdotal about the 2 examples I saw and paid for or is it only your word that's gospel.My claim is that it's now dearer to live in Ireland and wages haven't gone up .It's my claim that businesses haven't  increased wages to minimum wage earners but have increased prices making Ireland unaffordable for said workers.Its your claim that it's justified .



I didn't see you provide any evidence, so how is it not anecdotal? 

You accusing these businesses of operating a rip-off (cheating people out of money) without any evidence or acknowledgement that costs across the board are rising, that's unfair on those businesses. You then going on to say that it's now dearer to live in Ireland, do you not acknowledge that these business owners would have to charge more in order to cover those increasing costs?


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## seamus m

How is within  24 hour result covid test  between 120 euro and 140  euro in Ireland ,only 60 to 70  in Spain, denmark and Sweden .these are what I've seen and paid so far.we are hardly been ripped off


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## joe sod

Looks like the end date of the Covid pandemic in Ireland is October. Most of the restrictions will be lifted in September, the last remaining ones like nightclubs will open in October and NPHET will also be disbanded in October, Hoorah


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## odyssey06

joe sod said:


> Looks like the end date of the Covid pandemic in Ireland is October. Most of the restrictions will be lifted in September, the last remaining ones like nightclubs will open in October and NPHET will also be disbanded in October, Hoorah


I'll believe it when we get through the winter!


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## SlugBreath

I read that despite being one of the European countries with the highest take up of vaccinations we have one of the highest incidents of Covid infection.  Israel, the poster boy is not doing too good either. The UK is also very high.

Why is this the case?  Let's hope that all those vaccines while protecting us against serious illness have not weakened us in some other way.


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## Cervelo

SlugBreath said:


> I read that despite being one of the European countries with the highest take up of vaccinations we have one of the highest incidents of Covid infection.  Israel, the poster boy is not doing too good either. The UK is also very high.
> 
> Why is this the case?  Let's hope that all those vaccines while protecting us against serious illness have not weakened us in some other way.


I could be wrong but I think Ireland has gone from being the best in Europe to the worst 3 times now and I'm beginning to think along the lines that it's going to be "living with Covid" rather than "After Covid"
For me It's a bit of a head melt as I'm beginning to question whether I'm going to be able to travel to Spain this November now that the talk seems to be focusing on the actual efficacy of the vaccines we have got and if & when we're going to get our booster shots
I'm not worried about the actual vaccine per se I'm more worried about getting covid and what the long term effects on me would be or any of the poor unfortunates who have already got it and are now suffering with Long Covid.
Strange and worrying times indeed.


----------



## almostthere

Cervelo said:


> For me It's a bit of a head melt as I'm beginning to question whether I'm going to be able to travel to Spain this November now that the talk seems to be focusing on the actual efficacy of the vaccines we have got and if & when we're going to get our booster shots


We have been browsing flights in recent weeks.  After two years of not flying and being nervous fliers we are reluctant to get on a plane again. We have said that this is a foolish way of thinking so we came to the conclusion that we will take an initial short flight to Northern France or Netherlands. Try a smaller airport without the crowds.
Then we read of the crowds, the queues, the form filling, vouchers, the yobs, etc.  Lots of reasons not to travel............but we need to travel......we want to travel.....
I hope we can get some sort of booster vaccine.  Apparently we will be glowing after we get it.
Family members have travelled and no problems. Other family members have stayed at home, following all the precautions and a couple have come down with colds, sniffles etc  but not Covid.  You wonder....where did they get these colds/sniffles/sore throats...from?

Cervelo, you want to get back on your bike again.  Leper can avoid the crowds in his apartment......the only way we can do these things is by doing them.....


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## joe sod

SlugBreath said:


> I read that despite being one of the European countries with the highest take up of vaccinations we have one of the highest incidents of Covid infection.  Israel, the poster boy is not doing too good either. The UK is also very high.
> 
> Why is this the case?  Let's hope that all those vaccines while protecting us against serious illness have not weakened us in some other way.


I think because the young and unvaccinated are getting infected, they had no exposure before due to the very restrictive regime we had for the last 18 months in comparison to Europe where people have already been exposed to covid. In Israel and UK they have many cases due to how quickly they opened everything up after vaccinations.
The one thing from all this is that nobody got it right look at Australia and new zealand they are now at the back of the queue even though they were the poster boys a year ago


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## joer

It just goes to show how unpredictable Covid is . We will have to live with and respect it.


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## kinnjohn

joer said:


> It just goes to show how unpredictable Covid is . We will have to live with and respect it.


I am in Austria on holiday,
Very few using masks, all opened up and back to the new normal, the only difference now is everywhere you go where there are crowds people are using covid trackers all the time to track their movements
In restaurants, each table has a tracker barcode which you scan and upload on your phone, they use the same system everywhere people meet,


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## joer

kinnjohn said:


> I am in Austria on holiday,
> Very few using masks, all opened up and back to the new normal, the only difference now is everywhere you go where there are crowds people are using covid trackers all the time to track their movements
> In restaurants, each table has a tracker barcode which you scan and upload on your phone, they use the same system everywhere people meet,


 It is a good idea . Do you think that might catch on here?


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## kinnjohn

joer said:


> It is a good idea . Do you think that might catch on here?


I am surprised no one in the Media or catering sector or the Government or any of the political parties have not suggested using a system like the use in Austria to open up fully in Ireland before now,
Austria test school children  Monday Wednesday Friday during school term, rather than pushing vaccination they have settled into testing  unvaccinated people when they require testing,


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## Purple

kinnjohn said:


> rather than pushing vaccination they have settled into testing unvaccinated people when they require testing,


That's a bit silly. It makes far more sense to vaccinate people.


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## Majka.21

Cervelo said:


> Back in the 80's I made the mistake of using "Wash & Gone" and by the mid 90's there was very little left for the Barber to cut.
> IIRC back then a dry cut (#1 all over) was just under £10 Punts in the Trinity Barber every couple of weeks,
> So I'm quite surprised that 25+ years later it's only gone up by a relative small amount!!
> Nowadays the Gillette Fusion does both face and head and I never had a bad hair day since 95
> Well except for the day I used a Merkur single blade razor


gotta use a quality razor when shaving the head


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## kinnjohn

kinnjohn said:


> I am surprised no one in the Media or catering sector or the Government or any of the political parties have not suggested using a system like the use in Austria to open up fully in Ireland before now,
> Austria test school children  Monday Wednesday Friday during school term, rather than pushing vaccination they have settled into testing  unvaccinated people when they require testing,





Purple said:


> That's a bit silly. It makes far more sense to vaccinate people.


(I posted on the wrong thread should be in the Travel would you go section,)

 Purple,It makes far more sense to you and me,

 But there are others who feel different for many reasons from anti-Vaccination
to people who think the most Vulnerable around the World should be vaccinated first ahead of young people who possibly got covid and never realize they had it,
The Vulnerable in Vienna are getting their booster shots already,

I already posted on this site how grateful I was to receive my Vaccination several months ago,
Which speaks for itself,

The people who set  us up on the local web-based tracy app and booked the apartment We stayed in, were an east European family of six  who worked in Ireland up until the 2010 crash,( Friends of one of the people in our group,)

  the parents and one of the children are Vaccinated the other are not, one is old enough to make up her own mine, the two younger children because their parents decided not to vaccinate them at this stage,

The day we arrived the Family took us for a walk  stopping for Ice cream at a highly recommended local ice cream outlet,

I saw firsthand the local tracy app in action, for the first time, the QR codes are posted up every you go so you can scan them if you are going to spend more than 15 minutes in the company of people who are not part of your group,

I noticed the one who decided not to be Vaccinated seemed to be using the local app once she stopped for any length of time  I only found out later she was not vaccinated,

Tourists have free use of all Covid  testing facilities provided to locals,

I think I have posted enough for now on this site,


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## Cervelo

Strange how the mind works sometimes, last night we went out for a meal to celebrate a friends birthday 
It was the first time myself and Mrs C were in a restaurant since our last meal out in Madrid beginning of March 2020
Nothing fancy Elephant & Castle because the birthday girl loves chicken wings and had never been to an Elephant & Castle!!
Anyhow we've just asked for the bill and my throat starts to feel sore and my brain starts to go into overdrive 
Did I wash my hands correctly, did I use enough sanitizer, did I touch something and then touch my face etc etc
A few minutes later I'm in the car saying to Mrs C "I don't want to alarm you but my throat is very sore"
To which she replied" I'm not surprised, I haven't seen you talk that much in the last two years" 

So it would appear not only do I have to get use to having people in close proximity to me, now I also have retrain my throat for sustained conversation over the dinner table


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## Purple

kinnjohn said:


> people who think the most Vulnerable around the World should be vaccinated first ahead of young people


I'm one of the people who believes that.


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## Bronco Lane

SlugBreath said:


> I read that despite being one of the European countries with the highest take up of vaccinations we have one of the highest incidents of Covid infection. Israel, the poster boy is not doing too good either. The UK is also very high.
> 
> Why is this the case? Let's hope that all those vaccines while protecting us against serious illness have not weakened us in some other way.


Yes, I wonder why our infection rates are so high compared to other countries in Europe despite over 80% of our population aged over 12 being vaccinated.

My own family and friends have come down with sore throats, runny noses, headaches and tiredness in recent weeks. They have all had Covid tests and none tested positive. All vaccinated.

It's like a summer flu.


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## odyssey06

Bronco Lane said:


> Yes, I wonder why our infection rates are so high compared to other countries in Europe despite over 80% of our population aged over 12 being vaccinated.
> 
> My own family and friends have come down with sore throats, runny noses, headaches and tiredness in recent weeks. They have all had Covid tests and none tested positive. All vaccinated.
> 
> It's like a summer flu.


The 'summer virus' is mysterious. The same thing happened last September. People have been on holidays but with all the measures and distancing how is it spreading? 
A lot more people seem to have it than covid (anecdotal).
I said summer virus, because in comparison, we didn't have a flu season last winter.

Also mysterious are out infection rates. In comparison Denmark lifted the last of its covid restrictions

_73% of Denmark’s 5.8 million population is fully vaccinated. Of those aged 65 and older, 96% are fully jabbed.
With around 500 daily Covid cases and a reproduction rate of 0.7, Danish authorities say they have the virus under control._









						Denmark lifts the last of its Covid restrictions
					

50,000 people will attend a concert in Copenhagen tomorrow.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## Cervelo

Personally I think it's down to peoples letting their guard down now that they been vaccinated
The efficacy is around 80% so for me that means 2 out of every 10 people could be potential carriers
I feel that I'm more careful now than I was a year ago as I don't know what my personal efficacy is


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## Leo

odyssey06 said:


> The 'summer virus' is mysterious. The same thing happened last September. People have been on holidays but with all the measures and distancing how is it spreading?


Kids are back in school. 

I've a family member working in one of the hospital labs who says there has been a large spike in viral infection, many of our extended family have gotten it and the kids are the vectors.


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## Purple

Cervelo said:


> I feel that I'm more careful now than I was a year ago


I know I'm not. The risk of serious infection and death has reduced significantly and my actions have changed accordingly.


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## Bronco Lane

Cervelo said:


> Personally I think it's down to peoples letting their guard down now that they been vaccinated
> The efficacy is around 80% so for me that means 2 out of every 10 people could be potential carriers
> I feel that I'm more careful now than I was a year ago as I don't know what my personal efficacy is


I think that we are the same. We still take the same precautions as we did before vaccination and will continue to do so. We will tread lightly as we go and slowly we will ease the precautions that we are taking until the daily cases drop significantly.

However I look around me and everyone else seems to be relaxing quite a bit and wonder are we being too cautious.  We will continue to wear facemasks over winter to protect from the flu.

I am beginning to feel that we can change our lifestyle and incorporate this new cautious approach to the way we live.  Our biggest problem will be dealing with those Covid worry flashpoints that we all encounter from time to time in our daily lives without stressing too much.


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## odyssey06

Leo said:


> Kids are back in school.
> 
> I've a family member working in one of the hospital labs who says there has been a large spike in viral infection, many of our extended family have gotten it and the kids are the vectors.


Oh I get that, I just wonder about its source \ repository. Is it a new virus, or a virus being kept alive in circulation somewhere.


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## Leo

odyssey06 said:


> Oh I get that, I just wonder about its source \ repository. Is it a new virus, or a virus being kept alive in circulation somewhere.


Just another evolution of the ever-present virus that typically hits hardest in winter after schools go back.


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## Cervelo

Purple said:


> I know I'm not. The risk of serious infection and death has reduced significantly and my actions have changed accordingly.


This is where I differ from you and I presume most of the people, the risk as I believe it is now at BEST 20%, so 20% of vaccinated people will get the virus, which they tell is like having the flu and 5% of those infections will likely require hospitalization and I'm not sure what the percentage of those end up in ICU and what the death rate is of those poor unfortunates.

In the past twenty years I've got caught a cold or flu three times and that was during the five years that I worked in a local bike shop.
Most of the time I was at home building and maintaining their website for them but part of the deal was I wanted to work on the shop floor as it was something I've never done before so one or two days a week I was on site and that I believe from a customer is where I caught the cold/flu

Covid is not the flu and I think its wrong to think like that, the was a Priest up in Donegal who summed it up nicely for me in March 2020
I cant remember exactly what he said but what I heard was, This virus wants to kill you, that is it's sole purpose in life, to destroy it!!

I'm not letting Covid put my life on hold any more so yes I am going to try and get back to the life that I enjoy, cycling in Spain, meals out, going to the cinema, meeting friends and family etc etc but I also going to increase my awareness and vigilance of covid around me
I don't think it's a good idea for us to be dropping our guard while the virus is still mutating and what seems to be coming to light at the moment is that the vaccines that we have all got might not be a effective as we all thought they were going to be a year or so ago

The world has changed and as Bronco Lane says and I paraphrase here,
We have to change our lifestyles and incorporate this new cautious approach to the way we live.


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## Leper

Remember Larry Hagman (JR Ewing in the television series Dallas). He appeared on a Dept of Health tv ad saying "Never be polite about your health"- it was an anti smoking ad and his message was right. Don't be polite to people flaunting the Covid restrictions, especially now.


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## Cervelo

Leper said:


> Remember Larry Hagman (JR Ewing in the television series Dallas).


Indeed I do, and I remember the seeing some of his anti smoking ads as well. I'm remembering the one where he said something like
Kissing a smoker is like kissing an ashtray!!
Now I'm looking at Mrs C in a slightly different way


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## Purple

Cervelo said:


> This is where I differ from you and I presume most of the people, the risk as I believe it is now at BEST 20%, so 20% of vaccinated people will get the virus, which they tell is like having the flu and 5% of those infections will likely require hospitalization and I'm not sure what the percentage of those end up in ICU and what the death rate is of those poor unfortunates.



Older people (over 75) who are vaccinated are still more likely to die if they get Covid than someone in their 20's who isn't vaccinated. The vaccine is not a panacea. On that we agree. 
I'm not hand sanitising anywhere near as much as before. Not because I don't care but because it's been shown to be pointless. 
I still wear a mask all day in work but I go to pubs and restaurants and I don't worry about catching Covid at all.


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## SlurrySlump

Purple said:


> I'm not hand sanitising anywhere near as much as before. Not because I don't care but because it's been shown to be pointless.
> I still wear a mask all day in work but I go to pubs and restaurants and I don't worry about catching Covid at all.


I wish I was that confident.  I still believe, rightly or wrongly, that the chances of me picking up something in a pub to be pretty high. I would still look to sit outside or visit during a quiet afternoon.


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## Cervelo

Purple said:


> I'm not hand sanitising anywhere near as much as before. Not because I don't care but because it's been shown to be pointless.


I have to agree with you here, I don't sanitise at all really compare to most people I see 
My background is in the meat processing area so I have a very good if not anal attention to having clean hands and where those hands touch 
and would really only use a sanitiser when I haven't had access to hand washing facilities for a while


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## kinnjohn

SlurrySlump said:


> I wish I was that confident.  I still believe, rightly or wrongly, that the chances of me picking up something in a pub to be pretty high. I would still look to sit outside or visit during a quiet afternoon.


 sitting outside possibly sitting with unvaccinated people,


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## Purple

SlurrySlump said:


> I wish I was that confident.  I still believe, rightly or wrongly, that the chances of me picking up something in a pub to be pretty high. I would still look to sit outside or visit during a quiet afternoon.


I set outside because the atmosphere is better but with windows open and social distancing in place I'm not concerned.
I wouldn't go into a Nightclub or a racked pub where everyone was close together.


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## michaelm

I've gone from not being unduly concerned, at the height of it, to being unconcerned now.  We're probably all going to get the Delta anyway (I'd be surprised if I haven't had it already).  Time we ended all restrictions methinks.


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## ClubMan

Purple said:


> a racked pub


Didn't realise that Hooters had opened in Ireland...


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## Purple

ClubMan said:


> Didn't realise that Hooters had opened in Ireland...


It's not a Hooters and you have to know the password to get in.


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## kinnjohn

Purple said:


> It's not a Hooters and you have to know the password to get in.


just don't say the wrong word or Civid will be the least of your worries,


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## Purple

kinnjohn said:


> just don't say the wrong word or Civid will be the least of your worries,


Yep, there's no vaccines for that stuff.


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## SlurrySlump

Just sitting in a Ryanair "chat" queue with 60 poor souls ahead of me. Just to ask a simple question.

The "BOT" was useless and so was the first person who made contact with me from their chat room......just passed me on to someone else.


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## SlurrySlump

SlurrySlump said:


> Just sitting in a Ryanair "chat" queue with 60 poor souls ahead of me. Just to ask a simple question.
> 
> The "BOT" was useless and so was the first person who made contact with me from their chat room......just passed me on to someone else.


Well after being dumped by the first Ryanair chat person I got on to a second person after waiting an hour.


My Query.

I was given replacement Gift Cards for used Gift Cards in respect of cancelled flights.  They only issued these with a life of one year.

They needed to be used this week.  I contacted Ryanair to ask them if they would extend the life of them by 3 months. They just refused.

They have not loaded a lot of their Spring 2022 flights on to their system yet.  My choice of destinations is limited.

They are advertising sale after sale at the moment, they want our business.......they have people out there with these "replacement" vouchers for flights that *Ryanair cancelled*.......why don't they just extend the lives of these vouchers and create a bit of goodwill.  They will all be used up over time....


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## Kimmagegirl

SlurrySlump said:


> They will all be used up over time....


I would say that there are many people who were given these vouchers and lost them or didn't bother to use them.

Ryanair were happy to "refund" you with a Gift Card if you originally paid by Gift Card......they would not refund you cash.......they said "like for like" to me when I queried this.

However, when I look at the price I paid for my cancelled flights and the new price to the same destination next year....they are not charging "like for like".  In my case the cost of the flights has nearly doubled.  When you add in the ridiculous new price for your priority boarding and carry on suitcase, they are certainly going to make all their money back.

They should extend the lifetime of the Gift Card replacements that they re-issued for flights that they cancelled.


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## Leper

Purple said:


> I know I'm not. The risk of serious infection and death has reduced significantly and my actions have changed accordingly.


Somehow, I get the feeling with people becoming more complacent the Covid virus will re-visit with dreadful consequences. I hope I'm wrong; it's just that gut feeling.


----------



## joer

Leper said:


> Somehow, I get the feeling with people becoming more complacent the Covid virus will re-visit with dreadful consequences. I hope I'm wrong; it's just that gut feeling.


I agree . It is way too soon to be letting down our guard against Covid. If we go back in to lock-down in a few months time , which I hope we don't, the people who have let down their guard will be the same people who will be complaining the most about lock-down and restrictions.
I read an article lately somewhere about Italy not allowing non-vaccinated people back to work without pay. Will this happen here I wonder.


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## Cervelo

So I'm out with my bike mechanic yesterday morning and when I arrive there is him, his business partner and another fellow chatting about their Covid experiences in particular how their feeling after they have recovered and the problems their having with breathing and tiredness
and as soon as they see me with my mask on, their questioning me "why sure we've all had Covid now so there's no point"

I'm outside the shop removing sealant from my wheel when a couple arrive with their child and have started a conversation with my mechanic 
and of course it's about Covid and again in particular the problems that they are having and what they hear of other peoples recovery
And a joke is made about how I'm making them all feel bad about not wearing masks to which I respond that after hearing what they have all been saying I can't believe that they are not wearing masks especially given that one of them is a doctor

About half an hour later a non mask wearing woman arrives in to the shop with her bike to get serviced and precedes to tell us all that she's just come from a PCR test and is now awaiting her result because she's not feeling well

We went up to Stillorgan post office yesterday afternoon and as I'm walking by McDonalds a man beside me with both his hands in his pockets starts to have a good healthy prolonged cough and I say "you'd think after what we've all been through for the last two years you'd have the bleeping decency to cover your mouth with your hand".  He just looks at me as if I've two heads

Am I losing it, have we forgotten that there still is a pandemic here or am I been over cautious about it all ??


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## odyssey06

I think a certain fatigue has set in about the precautions after 2 years ... especially if someone doesnt see themselves or close contacts as vulnerable or had had it before.
Even if you have had it before, you can still get a bad dose from it, maybe not hospitalisation bad but a mini flu.


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## odyssey06

Just thinking would be helpful if we could have home (or GP surgery or pharmacy) quick antigen tests for say strep throat, flu, RSV... or maybe the latter viruses mutate too quickly.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Covid: Blood clot risk higher for six months after having virus
					

Lung and leg clots were much more likely in seriously ill patients, but mild cases can be affected.



					www.bbc.com
				




This is a very large study and the results might be shocking to some. I think over the coming years the long term effects of Covid-19 on people will be known and some are not going to be pretty.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Cervelo said:


> So I'm out with my bike mechanic yesterday morning and when I arrive there is him, his business partner and another fellow chatting about their Covid experiences in particular how their feeling after they have recovered and the problems their having with breathing and tiredness
> and as soon as they see me with my mask on, their questioning me "why sure we've all had Covid now so there's no point"
> 
> I'm outside the shop removing sealant from my wheel when a couple arrive with their child and have started a conversation with my mechanic
> and of course it's about Covid and again in particular the problems that they are having and what they hear of other peoples recovery
> And a joke is made about how I'm making them all feel bad about not wearing masks to which I respond that after hearing what they have all been saying I can't believe that they are not wearing masks especially given that one of them is a doctor
> 
> About half an hour later a non mask wearing woman arrives in to the shop with her bike to get serviced and precedes to tell us all that she's just come from a PCR test and is now awaiting her result because she's not feeling well
> 
> We went up to Stillorgan post office yesterday afternoon and as I'm walking by McDonalds a man beside me with both his hands in his pockets starts to have a good healthy prolonged cough and I say "you'd think after what we've all been through for the last two years you'd have the bleeping decency to cover your mouth with your hand".  He just looks at me as if I've two heads
> 
> Am I losing it, have we forgotten that there still is a pandemic here or am I been over cautious about it all ??


No your not losing it , I witnessed similar yesterday both on public transport and in a shopping centre . I just cannot fathom these actions.


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## Cervelo

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Covid: Blood clot risk higher for six months after having virus
> 
> 
> Lung and leg clots were much more likely in seriously ill patients, but mild cases can be affected.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very large study and the results might be shocking to some. I think over the coming years the long term effects of Covid-19 on people will be known and some are not going to be pretty.


It's funny you referenced this (Not) but the business partner mentioned that he's booked a full cardiac check up because he feels something is not right in that department since he got Covid, his appointment is end of June and as far as I can see doesn't wear a mask when dealing with his customers


----------



## michaelm

Cervelo said:


> Am I losing it, have we forgotten that there still is a pandemic here or am I been over cautious about it all ??


Over cautious at this stage, I'd venture.  Each to their own.  Time to get on with it methinks.


----------



## Gordanus

I think people equate post-covid with pre-pandemic times.

It's not. 

It's about living with endless covid variants, doing as much prevention and reduction of transmission as possible. 

Not that anyone here in the HSE or government seems to recognise that. Or there'd be grants available to enable businesses and the HSE to install air filtration. There'd be encouragement to wear masks on public transport, to have windows open as much as possible.

Just like in the energy sector, we're sliding towards foreseeable problems: an increase in Long Covid (the liklihood of Long Covid rises with each successive infection); the longer term effects of having had a Covid infection - heart attacks, rising especially in the over 40s; "brain fog" i.e. cognitive decline; and so on.

This is well known in the scientific/medical community, but the governments just don't want to hear it. I had a boss one time (working in the HSE), who kept saying to me, "Don't come to me with problems! Come to me with solutions!" Had to tell him that I **was* *coming with solutions, but he kept brushing them off - too expensive, too difficult etc. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00403-0

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/09/03/what-covid-19-is-doing-to-the-heart-even-after-recovery

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

https://www.theguardian.com/society...long-covid-two-years-after-infection-says-ons


----------

