# My Story 1 Income, Spouse & 2 Kids



## tomtim

*Age:*
  27

*Spouse’s/Partner's age:*
  31

*Annual gross income from employment or profession:*
  E40   (Net 2900)
*Annual gross income spouse:*
  0

*Type of employment:*
  Private sector

*Expenditure pattern:*
  Poor Money Management. Small over spend for 4 years, V high rent before home purchase.

*Rough estimate of value of home*
  E150,000

*Mortgage on home*
  E250,000  100% mortgage over 30 years (commenced 2009)
Shared Ownership with DCC

  Owing E240,000 - we've been paying our mortgage for 2 years now.
  5/6 missed payments to date.

*Mortgage provider:*
  Dublin City Concil

*Type of mortgage: *
  Fixed rate

*Interest rate*
  5.39%

*Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc*
  BOI Credit Card Visa: 3k 
BOI Loan: 20K
  Halifax Credit Card Visa: 5K
Family Loan: 2K
Mortgage Arrears: 6K

*Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?*
  No, pay off minimum | Extra when available

*Savings and investments:*
  None

*Do you have a pension scheme?*
  No

*Do you own any investment or other property?*
  No.

*Ages of children:*
  1 and 4 

*Life insurance:*
  Yes.

*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*

I'm basically living hand to mouth every month, most months I need to take a small loan from the parents or sell something to get by (Put food on the table)
We dont drink or smoke.

Stuck in a rut the last 6 months with no end is sight.
The credit card dept is a killer (Used when we moved in - we bought an empty shell)
Also we cant make the payments on the 20K loan so expect this to go to court sometime in the future, went to mabs etc... and send in countless offers for payment, all rejected so I'm not too concerned about this. Will be happy when a judge means tests us and agree a sensible payment plan.

I'm looking for some advise the dept is clearly unmanageable for us or is it?

Thanks for any comments, Tom


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## tomtim

This is our monthly Expenditure.

Mortgage     1024
Maintenance / Service Changes     65    
Food /Housekeeping     550     
Electricity     80
Gas/Oil     100
Mobile Phones     65
TV Licence     13
TV / Broadband Expenses     62
Motor Insurance     146
Road Tax     30
Fuel     90
Life Assurance     25
Hailifax Credit Card     180
Bank of Ireland Credit Card     70

Total: 2,500

I think that's everything


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## Bronte

Tomtim welcome to AAM.  You're going to have to be more forthcoming. If your income is 2900 and your expenditure is 2500 there is no problem. Also if you haven't paid your mortgage for 6 months that's an extra 6K you've spent on something. What is that.

Can you explain what the DDC scheme is exactly?

Something not right about the value of the property versus mortgage based on a 2009 purchase?


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## fizzelina

Motor Insurance at €146 a month would be €1,752 a year! Surely this is not right either? Also you need to start keeping a spending diary as it's not immediately clear where the extra money is being spent, how did you miss mortgage repayments what did you spend the money on. Also you don't include any spending on children (doctors, clothes etc) A spending diary will let you both see exactly where your money goes.


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## truthseeker

OP - I think you have listed some of your figures for the month as the bi-monthly figure.

Electricity, gas/oil seem high per month. 
So does tv/broadband - mine costs 40 euro every 2 months (basic package).

As fizzelina says - motor insurance seems high as well.

Id also question 550 a month on food/housekeeping - if you shopped to a list in cheaper places like LIDL you could get that down somewhat.

If youre 6k arrears on the mortgage in only 2 years - what was that spent on?

You are also missing 400 from your monthly list of expenditures.

Bronte - it IS possible for the NE to be that high in only 2 years. If the OP had contracts signed they may have bought off plans in 2008 and set the price at 2008 prices and then suffered the massive drops since then.

Can your wife work? I realise this will cost you in terms of childcare but if she could get a part time evening job perhaps she could earn something while you mind the kids?

I agree with Fizzelina - you need to organise a spending diary and see exactly where your money is going.

Are you claiming back everything you can - MED1, bin charges etc? Are you claiming your wives tax credits while she is not working?

Over what period did you run up the unsecured debt? I cant see how you were approved for a mortgage based on the level of unsecured debt (which I assume has not just happened in the past 2 years) and your salary? Have your circumstances dramatically changed, salary drop or something since you got your mortgage?


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## tomtim

Thanks for the comments, I understand the 400 shortfall between expense & income but I don’t factor in money spend on the kids, birthday parties, basic entertainment, a couple of games of Pitch & putt etc....

I'm claiming my wife’s tax credits, we would be down money if my wife started working with childcare costs and losing the tax credits.

The 8K CC debt is from making the apartment liveable - needed to purchase everything.
All appliances, beds, kitchen, furniture, floors etc....
20K we got just after the mortgage (Was surprised I got it TBH) - Used to pay back parents.

2 weeks after getting the 20K loan I got a 20% decrease in Salary (No warning)

The 6K arrears came about from childcare costs before my son started school (450 PM) - This pushed us over the edge for a long time (I won’t go into all the details of this - Wife was not at home during this time etc....)
Also trip to London to organise wife’s Visa - needed to bring kids & had to stay 3 days.


I will start by keeping a spending diary and see how we get on from next month.


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## tomtim

I should point out the DCC is Dublin City Council - we bought in early 2009 for 250K from Affordable housing, the same apartment 1 year later were €150K 

Laugh or cry or maybe just desperate to bring my monthly rent expense down – I was paying 1300 for a 2 bed very small apartment.


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## truthseeker

OK - I understand about the shortfall in expenditure, I think you need to take note of your mental way of prioritising money here - cut down (or out) what you can in terms of basic entertainment, birthday parties etc... The money spent on these could go a long way to helping clear debt and if you prioritise that first and then do free stuff for entertainment after you will be helping yourself.

I have the same comment re the 8k for outfitting the home, you were already 20k in debt plus a mortgage and you ran up the costs of decorating an empty shell - I realise there are some things that are needed new but you werent in a position to spend that kind of money and you did - when I first moved into my apartment, I paid for flooring, curtains and kitchen appliances - and the rest of it was free secondhand furniture, I only replaced the broken down old couch I had been donated 3 years after I moved in - same for the bed, tv, bookcasing etc....

The above is all just about attitude to money and making clearing debt the priority rather than having the things we want to have immediately.

To address your immediate situation, take another look at those monthly expenses, as has been said, some look high and may be bimonthly expenses listed. Keep a spending diary and look at where you can cut costs.
Make changes to lifestyle, cheaper shopping, free/cheap entertainment.

Can you sell anything? A friend of mine did a clear out and sold her 'junk' for nearly 500 euro at a car boot sale - an injection of that kind of cash to a credit card debt would help you a lot.

An evening/part time job for your wife or yourself? Delivering fast food?

Do you or your wife have any marketable skills you could teach - playing a musical instrument, grinds for students, nixers for carpentry/electrical/plumbing/handyman type work?

Have you looked at cutting back any packages/utilities - ie, moving to a cheaper electricity supplier, going to basic for the tv/broadband, cheaper mobile phone package?

How much is your car worth - could you sell it and get something cheaper? 

Make sure you have applied for everything you can re revenue/social welfare - I notice you havent listed childrens allowance on income but you must be getting that?  

In theory with your salary + childrens allowance, and your mortgage of approx 1000 a month you should be able to live well, pay your expenses, and work on your debt but to do so you will need a disciplined attitude to what you are spending and how to cut back and make lifestyle changes - but I think it is doable.

The spending diary needs to include every single cent that comes in and goes out, sometimes people are spending silly sums on work lunch or coffees or newspapers that can just be cut right out. Leave no cent unaccounted for - there is always some silly drain on the finances that can be addressed with discipline.


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## tomtim

Thanks for the detailed reply, just discussed with the wife and I'm determined to sort this budget out. Just like you said it should be manageable.

I have prepared the budget planner for the rest of the year; with every detail for the month of May so will keep a log & find out where our money is wasted.

You hit the nail on the head with regards to our attitude to money - I leave all the finances up to the wife and her attitude is less than perfect - Live for today, you could be dead tomorrow type comments   :-O

I think I had my head in the sand for too long, I'll be managing all the finances for the next few months to see if we can get back on track.

Will keep this thread updated, it’s proved to be a real kick up the ass.


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## horusd

Tomtim a couple of add'l comments in addition to other posters:

1. Your TV/BB package could be cut. Switch to free to air TV (total outlay of 200 approx). My BB & phone costs 45.00. You could reduce down this amount.

2. Check callscosts.ie for best phones deals.

3. Life Ass. at 300 PA seems quite expensive. Check for alternative quotes. There are various brokers & online quote engines. Consider a post in the Life Assurance section of AAM.

4. 550 seems fairly ok for food, but could you budget 10% reduction to 500 and see how you do? Recycle food for sandwitchs etc.

5. The spending log is a great idea, but have you also prepared a budget? Set targets etc? 

6. Do you know which are most expensive loans? These should be prioritised for 1st clearance. Can you swtich to 0% offers on any cards?

7. 90 on fuel is not excessive, but can it be reduced? Do you need car ? Could you sell it? Could you walk/bike/ bus it occasionally?

8. You will need a savings plan too for emergency cash, Doctors etc. Could you set aside something for this? 

9. Can you reduce temp on heating by 1 degree and save on this somewhat? Have you shopped around for best deals on gas/electricity?

10.You need to bring your wife on board on this. She needs to buy into the plan, and both of you need to see light at the end of the tunnel. A good plan includes little treats so it's not all hard graft. Make saving into a challenge and make it fun. Set out a clear plan that you both can stick with.


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## tomtim

Hi, Good points, Answers in bold

1. Your TV/BB package could be cut. Switch to free to air TV (total  outlay of 200 approx). My BB & phone costs 45.00. You could reduce  down this amount.
*I'm using free NTL 12 channels at the moment - The BB costs are €50pm for 50mb from magnet - its been rock solid for 2 years now and we both use it 4+ hours per day.
I could replace with NTL BB but my experience with them was difficult to say the least.*

2. Check callscosts.ie for best phones deals.
*Bill pay Mobile phones will be out the window when contracts are up in 2 months so can reduce from €65 to €30 or lower*

3. Life Ass. at 300 PA seems quite expensive. Check for alternative  quotes. There are various brokers & online quote engines. Consider a  post in the Life Assurance section of AAM.
*I'll have a look into this - I get life insurance with the mortgage but its void if I'm in arrears so I took out a private policy - I'll get clarification on this to be sure.*

4. 550 seems fairly ok for food, but could you budget 10% reduction to 500 and see how you do? Recycle food for sandwich etc.
*Yes we agreed €500 will be enough*.

5. The spending log is a great idea, but have you also prepared a budget? Set targets etc? 
*Targets are set for spending and the most important debt will get priority.*

6. Do you know which are most expensive loans? These should be prioritized for 1st clearance. Can you switch to 0% offers on any cards?
*Yes I have a bank overdraft & little woods Ireland overdraft that are top priority. Goal is to have them cleared in 3 months*

7. 90 on fuel is not excessive, but can it be reduced? Do you need car ?  Could you sell it? Could you walk/bike/ bus it occasionally?
*Really need the car with the kids - I walk / cycle to work so its not used everyday. The car is worth €1300*

8. You will need a savings plan too for emergency cash, Doctors etc. Could you set aside something for this?
*I wont have anything in May, maybe June & July to start this.*

9. Can you reduce temp on heating by 1 degree and save on this somewhat?  Have you shopped around for best deals on gas/electricity?
*Yes - we changed from ESB to Bord Gas and finally to Airtricity - Happy with them now.*

10.You need to bring your wife on board on this. She needs to buy into  the plan, and both of you need to see light at the end of the tunnel. A  good plan includes little treats so it's not all hard graft. Make saving  into a challenge and make it fun. Set out a clear plan that you both  can stick with.         
*I feel she is 100% on board now, some serious eye openers today when going through everything. From May on we have a cash budget and no more delaying payments.*


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## lionstour

horusd said:


> 10.You need to bring your wife on board on this. She needs to buy into the plan, and both of you need to see light at the end of the tunnel.


 
An excellent reply horusd. This is the most important element of getting back on their feet. However in his previous post the original poster said



> I leave all the finances up to the wife and her attitude is less than perfect - Live for today, you could be dead tomorrow type comments :-O
> I think I had my head in the sand for too long, I'll be managing all the finances for the next few months to see if we can get back on track.


 
Seems to me his wife might end up feeling resentful and unappreciated if he starts calling the shots from now on financially and takes all the financial decision making over. 

Was his head really in the sand when all this was going on? In any regards they need to act like a team, they are both equally to blame and both need to be equally involved in the solution.


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## tomtim

Hi, Yes we trashed this out today and I made sure,  1000000% sure she was happy with me looking after the finances. As for head in the clouds - Yes I knew things weren't going smoothly but was stupid and lazy I suppose - I should have stepped in much earlier.

I have a great track record of managing my finances but since getting married + kids I took a back seat BIG TIME!!!!

Definitely both our faults, I'm not blaming anyone except myself.
Your right we both need to be involved in the solution, my part is looking after the finances and my wife the allocated spending.


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## horusd

Sounds like your on the ball tomtim.When you say private policy is this an add'l cover or did you just replace the existing one? You are both  non-smokers ( I assume it's a joint cover) the loan is not a large one, I imagine there are better quotes available. You dont mention the overdrafts in the original post. Are these attracting higher rates than the credit cards? If not, prioritise the cards. I have very reliable BB @ 45 pm with Vodafone, 8 mb, it's very adequate.


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## horusd

As a by the by, the spending targets are great, but remember you want to plan beyond them to a better future. So, plan to have X debts paid off, savings started target Y amount by whenever, maintain income at at least 10% -15 % more than expenditure, have plan to deal with potential interest hike ( know what a 1/2 % change would cost etc). Look up Karl's mortgage caculator, it's on AAM or just google it. Maybe review ways to increase income. Wife minding kids ? Ensure you know and claim all tax credits, including medical expenses.  See all this as a challenge, make it a game you both want to win. Your attitudes will be key to all this. Well done to you and the wife, you're making a good start.


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## tomtim

Yes overdrafts are attracting the highest rates - Totally €2,200 owed
They came to light today!

The Life assurance is Additional Death cover for €250K just a precaution.

Its perfect timing as I just got paid today and all debts paid first and a clear budget / plan for May. ( I have all the online banking setup so no need to got to the bank / post office for bill payments) NO EXCUSES!!!

I feel I need to get the budget nailed down for the first couple of months & bring any unpaid bills back on track and get the monthly / Bi Monthly flow going.
e.g. Not preparing for the Gas & Electric bill - These will be taken into account every month so no more surprises or payment delays.


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## tomtim

Here is this months outgoings,

Mortgage                    790 (Interest Only)
Electricity                    160
Gas                    160
Mobile Phones                    65
Internet                    50
Food Supplies                    500
Littlewoods                    60
Maintenance  Fees                  78
Bank of Ireland Overdraft                    169
Bank of Ireland Credit Card                    60
Halifax Credit Card                    180
Life Assurance                    22
Car Petrol                    100
Personal Debt                    240
One off Overdraft                    165

Total Income:     €3,010
Total Out Going:  €2,799
Remainder:        €211

I'm getting hit with the Gas + Electric + Personal Debt + One off Overdraft this month so not much to play with.
These shouldn't be an issue next month.


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## Bronte

tomtim said:


> Mortgage 790 (Interest Only)
> 
> Electricity 160
> Gas 160
> 
> Littlewoods 60
> 
> 
> Bank of Ireland Overdraft 169
> Bank of Ireland Credit Card 60
> Halifax Credit Card 180
> One off Overdraft 165
> 
> .


 
So you negotiated the mortgage to interest only. How long is this for and what did the bank agree in relation to the arrears.

What is Littlewoods?

In relation to the 4 loans above can you post the interest rate and whether that is a minimum payment or capital plus interest.

In relation to gas and electricity, is that a winter bill, it's very high for one month. Why in your first post was their fuel in addition? How do you heat the house.

As other posters have said it's very important that both you and your wife are completely in line now. It's no good you being in charge of finances if she overspends etc. That's where a budget comes in. If you're not in line there will be arguments and excuses. Number one cause of fights in marriage. 

In relation to the small loan to family of 2K is that where the 240 repayment is coming from this month? Would they be willing to give you a six month break on repayments so that you can tackle your other debt first. 

There is absolutely no reason why you cannot live on your salary. Have a look at the advice on here to others in the money makeover for other tips. 

Could you (to help others) explain how you got on with Mabs. Particularly which institutions wouldn't agree to a payment plan. Also can you clarify if you are being taken to court, as per your first post. 

Think you and your wife also need to look at some kind of another income stream for a year or so to get down the debt. 

Truthseeker - thanks for that info re 2009, didn't think the prices changed that much in that time period but you live and learn. Doesn't matter to Tomtim though as he can afford everything once he gets his debts down.


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## tomtim

Hi, Answers in bold,

So you negotiated the mortgage to interest only. How long is this for and what did the bank agree in relation to the arrears.
*On Interest only 6 Months with a view to reducing the arrears - no deadlines etc... Very helpful in that regard.*

  What is Littlewoods?
*Mail-order website - Wife’s Clothes & other useless items. *

  In relation to the 4 loans above can you post the interest rate and whether that is a minimum payment or capital plus interest.
*Halifax 0% - I have a repayment plan of 180pm negotiated.*
*BOI CC 16.9% - This month is minimum payment*
*BOI OD 14.9% - This month is capital plus interest*
*Littlewoods credit 39.5% - Small capital plus interest*
*One off overdraft 16.9% - Paid by default when I got paid - very rare I have this.*

  In relation to gas and electricity, is that a winter bill, it's very high for one month. Why in your first post was their fuel in addition? How do you heat the house.
*We have Gas for all heating - Water & Central - That bill is for 2 months & still quite high - I'll be adjusting the settings this evening.*

  As other posters have said it's very important that both you and your wife are completely in line now. It's no good you being in charge of finances if she overspends etc. That's where a budget comes in. If you're not in line there will be arguments and excuses. Number one cause of fights in marriage.
*Yes - I feel this will be the most difficult - She now has a weekly budget of €175 for May and has agreed to not spend on any unessential’s.*
*We'll see how it goes - I'll go over everything from week 1.*

  In relation to the small loan to family of 2K is that where the 240 repayment is coming from this month? Would they be willing to give you a six month break on repayments so that you can tackle your other debt first?
*No the 2K is on the long finger - I needed to borrow an extra 240 last month.*

  There is absolutely no reason why you cannot live on your salary. Have a look at the advice on here to others in the money makeover for other tips.

  Could you (to help others) explain how you got on with Mabs. Particularly which institutions wouldn't agree to a payment plan. Also can you clarify if you are being taken to court, as per your first post.
*Bank of Ireland - Spoke to mabs and they explained what procedure I should take - I sent in 5 offer letters & Statement of earnings / expenditure. They point blank refused all of them.*
*It’s with the solicitors now - again I sent offer letters & Statement of earnings / expenditure. They agreed the figure was acceptable but were under strict instruction to get a judgement against me. 1.5 years later I’m still waiting for the court date.*

  Think you and your wife also need to look at some kind of another income stream for a year or so to get down the debt.
*Yes - I do nixers when available I should have an extra €400 this month, I will look at something more permanent.*

  Truthseeker - thanks for that info re 2009, didn't think the prices changed that much in that time period but you live and learn. Doesn't matter to Tomtim though as he can afford everything once he gets his debts down.


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## truthseeker

Well done Tomtim - you are making brilliant progress just getting a handle on all of this and making the mental shift towards change.

Ive a couple of queries for you - electricity seems high even for 2 months - are you guys using electricity hungry devices like a tumble drier? With the weather the way it is there is no reason not to dry clothes in the air (even in an apartment can be put on a clothes horse next to an open window).

Online buying is a killer, you dont feel the pain until you see the credit card statement - try to knock this on the head completely. One useful trick I use for this is to delay buying something for a few days. A lot of the time once the initial impulse is gone and a few days have passed you realise you dont really need the item.

WHat is your wifes weekly budget of 175 for? Does this include groceries? It seems high if not.

I also thought of something in relation to your situation yesterday evening, your wife is at home in the daytime minding your 1 year old yes? Could she child mind someone elses child at the same time for payment? (I see someone else has made the same suggestion - worth looking into).

You havent listed any entertainment expenses or gym etc... Make sure to include these in your budget so you dont accidently run over.


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## horusd

As you have 0% interest on the Halifax, can you reduce amount to a minimum payment and pay off the higher BOI CC or Littlewoods ?

Did you neg. this deal with Halifax? If so,can you appraoch BOI as well and ask them to freeze interest?

Can your wife mind some children do some babysitting? This would seem very important so that she bears responsibity for paying off debt as well as you.

Have you switched to energy saving bulbs etc, use immersion only when necc ?

Can you advertise your nixer's as an add'l income stream?

Reconsider whether that add'l life cover is necc. What does it cost? Can you get an all in one package that will cover you if in arrears? Post in Life section of AAM for opinons on this. There are some professionals who will advise you.


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## tomtim

Yes the €175 includes the shopping & entertainment etc..

My wife could child mind but given her LARGE circle of friends everyone is a stay at home parent. I'll investigate this!
She went to 7 Friends kids birthdays last month FFS 

------------------------



As you have 0% interest on the Halifax, can you reduce amount to  a minimum payment and pay off the higher BOI CC or Littlewoods ?
*The €180 is minimun for Halifax they were going to sell the debt to collectors before this was put in place so want to stick to the aggreement.*


Did you neg. this deal with Halifax? If so,can you appraoch BOI as well and ask them to freeze interest?
*Yes & maybe - Im not sure BOI will talk to me with the loan issue - I'll call and see.*


Can your wife mind some children do some babysitting? This  would seem very important so that she bears responsibity for paying off  debt as well as you.
*Yes possible - comments above.*


Have you switched to energy saving bulbs etc, use immersion only when necc ?
*Yes - I will be changing the autostart in the morning for hot water etc...*


Can you advertise your nixer's as an add'l income stream?
*Yes will do this over the next couple of days.*


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## horusd

tomtim, you're being very proactive great. Your wife needs to be the same so you're both singing from the same hymn sheet. Advertise babysitting/child minding  in local shops, boards etc. Perhaps she could do this? You have a lot of great ideas on here, and the rudiments of a plan. Ring banks, advertise nixers etc. Set this all down in a to do list for the next few days and weeks.  Set out a budget plan for wife's 175 and how this is used/broken down. Keep receipts, perhaps ask her to do this as her part in the strategy. Set aside 1 hour every other day to review. What's working, what needs to change etc. Planning is critical to the whole process. As is managing the plan. Highlight top priorities and work down the list.  Again, well done. You will be suprised at how quickly you can bring control over all this I think.


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## Greta

Tomtim, as you say you used to manage money OK before the wife came along you should be able to sort everything out, now that you have taken control again, I am very hopeful for you.

I think if one spouse is capable of looking after finances, that's enough provided the other one doesn't sabotage all the efforts by reckless spending, running up secret debts etc. If you actively manage the finances and your wife at least sticks to the budget you set, you should pull through.

Paying 40% interest on Littlewood (or anything else) is crazy and has to stop. Maybe, if she wants to spend extra, on top of the budget, on unnecessary things, she could earn it - by babysitting, delivering leaflets in the evening etc? It might teach her the value of money and will keep the family budget safe.


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## tomtim

Hi,

Thanks for the comments,
Budget for this week: €175

Here's what was spent today,

Baby Milk + Normal: 15
Mc Donald's: 9
kids clothes: 16
Postal Order: 15 (More crap we don't need)
Kids Toy: 10
2x Cutlery sets + 2 candle stands: 48
Lotto: 3

Total: €116

Now you see what I'm dealing with 
Had another serious talk - I think its hitting home now.
€62 until next Sunday & not a penny more. Aldi tomorrow.


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## horusd

Clearly the message hasn't got thro yet. But it may take a bit of time. It would really be better if you both had ownership of the debt problem and finding the solution.You taking control is at best, a short-term solution.


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## niceoneted

Tomtim, 
I admire you as you seem determined to sort the lot out. 
I suggest giving your wife less money. Go and do the food shopping with her. then give her an allowance for herself. say 30-50 a week.
A lot of what she bought today is useless spending but you know that. 
You really need to keep on to her about it. 
I am a saver so her behaviour would drive me mad. 
Best of luck.


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## truthseeker

OP - whats the access to money? Joint bank account, laser cards, cheque books?

It sounds harsh but you need to cut all avenues of access to money except the allocated weekly budget. I cannot see how your wife is taking this seriously if 116 of weekly budget was blown in one day on items like candle holders, cutlery, mcdonalds etc...


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## tomtim

Yes it’s getting through slowly - There is no way I'm letting this slide. I can’t stand living the way we were the last 2 years.

It was said earlier this is a lifestyle shift - I'm very happy to embrace it and get to a good position month after month. I will keep on her with the spending.
Cutting access would be like cold turkey to a drug addict, I suspect I will need to move this way but in a more gradual approach.

Access is via laser card - She took the €180 out this morning but had pre-arranged to buy the 2x Cutlery sets + 2 candle stands for €48 a few days ago. NO EXCUSE WTF do we need this for?????
Can’t get annoyed as it will just lead to arguments.

Will keep plugging away - I will be doing all the food shopping with her.
Will update as the week progresses.


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## Greta

truthseeker said:


> It sounds harsh but you need to cut all avenues of access to money except the allocated weekly budget. I cannot see how your wife is taking this seriously if 116 of weekly budget was blown in one day on items like candle holders, cutlery, mcdonalds etc...



I agree. Open your own bank account, if you don't have one already, i.e. without her, cut her access to any money except a small weekly allowance. No joint credit cards, store cards etc. 
No joint savings accounts either - if she does manage to run up debts in her own name, you need to make sure that *her* creditors can't come after *you*. I am still reeling from 40% interest on Littlewood spending...

With two small children to take care of, financially among other things, such behaviour is inexcusable, it seems your wife has a spending problem akin to a drug problem. Cutting off access to money is the only cure, so long as you provide access to money, you are acting as her enabler, i.e. enabling her to continue with her addiction.

Talking to her about it is all well and good, but so long as she has access to money, she might just be unable to fight her addiction. There really should be shopaholics rehabs, but as there aren't, you'll have to get it under control yourself Best of luck!

PS Could you return some of the useless stuff she bought and get refunds? Or at least sell it, even for half-price? It will get you some money and it might get through to her that there is no point buying useless stuff if it gets taken away from her.


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## becky

tomtim said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the comments,
> Budget for this week: €175
> 
> Here's what was spent today,
> 
> Baby Milk + Normal: 15
> Mc Donald's: 9
> kids clothes: 16
> Postal Order: 15 (More crap we don't need)
> Kids Toy: 10
> 2x Cutlery sets + 2 candle stands: 48
> Lotto: 3
> 
> Total: €116
> 
> Now you see what I'm dealing with
> Had another serious talk - I think its hitting home now.
> €62 until next Sunday & not a penny more. Aldi tomorrow.



I know a girl through a friend who sounds just like your wife.  She use to blow €100 on crap in a pound shop.  Her husband who is self employed now gives her cash every week and does the food shop with her.  She has no access to credit cards or laser cards.  it seems he had to do this after some terrible credit card bills.  She was very resentful of this despite admitting that her spending was out of control.

My friend maintained one of the problem was her trying to keep up with the celtic tiger stay at home mothers, my friend included.  Another one, which sounds like your case, is she was always buying house stuff (in the pound shop) as they had moved into in a new house.  

My friend has the use of the cc card etc but would never spend €100 in a pound shop. She stopped buying stuff in front of this girl so as not to encourage her. This girl often remarked (isn't it well for some) on how I could buy what I want (I have a zero credit card bill).

As you said you have to try and deal with the issue, with hopefully not too many arguments, but she was use to spending at will up to now so an adjustment period is inevitable.

Best of luck.


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## horusd

tomtim said:


> Yes it’s getting through slowly - There is no way I'm letting this slide. I can’t stand living the way we were the last 2 years.
> 
> It was said earlier this is a lifestyle shift - I'm very happy to embrace it and get to a good position month after month. *I will keep on her with the spending.*
> *Cutting access would be like cold turkey to a drug addict, I suspect I will need to move this way but in a more gradual approach.*
> 
> Access is via laser card - She took the €180 out this morning but had pre-arranged to buy the 2x Cutlery sets + 2 candle stands for €48 a few days ago. NO EXCUSE WTF do we need this for?????
> Can’t get annoyed as it will just lead to arguments.
> 
> *Will keep plugging away - I will be doing all the food shopping with her.*
> Will update as the week progresses.


 

tomtim addicts recover by taking responsibility and owning the problem.  There are reasons why people act the way they do. This might be worth exploring. Is she bored? What's motivating the behaviour? 

You  taking full responsibility  (even with her agreement) is a sure way to infantalise her. You become a parent to three rather than two. But I think you know that. The better way is to treat her and expect her to act like an adult. Taking responsibilty is a learning experience. Money is a joint responsibility where you will want to act as partners in finding a way out of these problems. It may take a bit longer, but unless you intend to manage the money forever and act as a parent, you will need to deal with this jointly.

 And recall both of you got into this problem together, your wife wasn't acting alone. I'm not assigning blame as it's pointless. But this problem cannot be totally laid at your wife's door.


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## blueskies

Excellent responses Horusd,excellent financial advice coupled with compassion and insight.


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## horusd

Thanks blueskies, as tomtim is already aware, financial matters are a joint responsibility. But the jokey  comment in post 25 " see what I'm dealing with" indicates, there may be a tendency to view this as the wife's problem.

 This cannot be the case. This problem didn't fall out of the sky in the last few weeks, months or even years, and the OP is very aware of this to his credit. Taking financial responsibilty is and always was a joint venture. To blame the wife, and try to control her now would deny his part in the creation of the problem. This would be both wrong and unfair, and I think the OP is very aware of this.


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## tomtim

Hi Guys, Great comments,

I don't want to turn this into a blame game as it will get us nowhere but just for the record - My personal out goings i.e. Money spend on myself by myself per month is about €50 - That’s a bad month.

I have free transport to & from work, free lunches; I might go for a game of pitch & putt 3 times a month - That's it. I never carry money on me.

  Anyways, we have talked again & again about the budget and if she doesn’t stick to it then I explained I will need to cut off the access.
  The wife’s spending behavior is nothing new; her happiest time is shopping and buying stuff on the internet even though it’s not needed – My understanding is it stems from her childhood – Single parent, very tight financially, lost parents at a young age, Money was always an issue, trying to fill a void I guess etc…

  By no means is she bored, very active always doing something or going somewhere with friends etc…

Spending today,

€80 on Food supplies (Most of which should last for 2x weeks)

Total Spend so far: €196

Sold an item yesterday for €150 so that will offset yesterdays mess.


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## tomtim

Another positive, I adjusted the hot water last night. It was running for 3 hours every morning, changed it to 30 mins and still have hot water for shower and warn water for the day.

Saves 75 hours of gas per month.


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## Yachtie

tomtim said:


> Another positive, I adjusted the hot water last night. It was running for 3 hours every morning, changed it to 30 mins and still have hot water for shower and warn water for the day.
> 
> Saves 75 hours of gas per month.


 
A couple of years ago (before several gas price hikes) I worked out that an hour of gas usage cost us €1. I hope that your savings are in around that range, it would be a nice bit of extra cash to have. 

Also, when it comes to heating water, I use immersion when gas heating is not required. I find immersion to heat the water a lot quicker than the gas and *I think* that 1/2 hour of immersion is cheaper than 1hour of gas heating. May be worth checking out. 

Have to add that I aree with all the advice you already received and wish you luck.


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## tomtim

Well first month is over now - went fairly well - Had a couple of unexpected spends I didn’t really plan for,

Wife did some driving lessons & passed the driving test - so cheaper insurance in a couple months’ time which should payback. (That’s the Family loan €260 at the end)

Here is June’s budget - Knocked €300 off the Littlewoods debt - That will be totally gone on the 1st of July.

Also I’m still catching up on the mess of the other bills, Electric & Gas payment this month; also 2 months phone payments & a surprise overdraft €60 on the wife’s account.

Mortgage    810
Electricity    100
Gas    90
Phone    90
Internet    50
Food Supplies    500
Littlewoods    300
House Maintenance    78
Bank of Ireland Overdraft    169
Bank of Ireland Credit Card    70
Halifax Credit Card    180
Life Assurance    22
Car Petrol    100
NTL Final debt    60
Overdraft    60
Family Debt    260

Total: €2,939

Total Income is €3010 so that leaves €71 in the emergency fun.


So first month is over & I feel we are making some progress.


Thanks for the comments so far - Its great to get all this all clear and planned in my head.


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## suzie

Contact your insurance company, as you may be due a rebate now rather than at renewal...no harm in asking...

S.


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## horusd

April ? 2011

Mortgage 790 (Interest Only)
Electricity 160
Gas 160
Mobile Phones 65
Internet 50
Food Supplies 500
Littlewoods 60
Maintenance Fees 78
Bank of Ireland Overdraft 169
Bank of Ireland Credit Card 60
Halifax Credit Card 180
Life Assurance 22
Car Petrol 100
Personal Debt 240
One off Overdraft 165

*Total Income: €3,010*
*Total Out Going: €2,799*
*Remainder: €211*

Mortgage 810
Electricity 100
Gas 90
Phone 90
Internet 50
Food Supplies 500
Littlewoods 300
House Maintenance 78
Bank of Ireland Overdraft 169
Bank of Ireland Credit Card 70
Halifax Credit Card 180
Life Assurance 22
Car Petrol 100
NTL Final debt 60
Overdraft 60
Family Debt 260

Total: *€2,939
*
*Total Income is €3010 so that leaves €71 in the emergency fun.
*

Well done tomtim, you seem to be making real progress. I'm a bit confused about the differences between the two months. Did you ditch the mobile phones? Are the gas/esb bills monthly rates or normal bi-monthly? You probably rounded some figures off by the looks of it. But the improvement is impressive!


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## tomtim

Yes the Electric + Gas was a little overdue - All is cleared now so we should be back to the normal bi monthly payments.

Thanks for the advise Suzie - Got a €50 rebate from the Insurance company.


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## Thirsty

> I suggest giving your wife less money. Go and do the food shopping with her. then give her an allowance for herself. say 30-50 a week


Good Grief! I had to check the date twice when I read this (and similar remarks).  It's 2011 folks, not 1911.


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## millieforbes

to be fair I'd suggest the same if it was the husband with the money problems - I dont think this is a keeping the little woman downtrodden issue


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## f9710145

Thirsty said:


> Good Grief! I had to check the date twice when I read this (and similar remarks).  It's 2011 folks, not 1911.



They're in debt and trying to get out of it - we're doing fine, husband  has a good job but I'm not working anymore and I don't spend anywhere  near €30 - €50 a week, more likely that in a month!  If I need something  then I'll spend or if I'm meeting friends out or something but that's  all.  If we were trying to get out of debt then I wouldn't be spending  even that much.


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## tomtim

Month 3 now Guys - Feeling great this month. Littlewoods in finally gone - I called to cancel the credit on the account so no worries of it happening in the future.

Also I have a large surplus which I'm planning on putting against the BOI credit card

Budget this month:

Mortgage    810
Electricity    100 (Plus balance on the account - Dont want any surprises when the bill comes in)
Phones 65
Internet    50
Food Supplies    500
Car Petrol 90
Littlewoods 300
House Maintenance    78
Bank of Ireland Credit Card    70
Halifax Credit Card    180
Life Assurance    22
Family Debt 50
Kids Summer Camp 130

*Total Income: €3,010
Total Outgoing: **€**2,445
Remainder: **€565 + **€**200 spare cash**
Surplus of €765*

So the next target is the BOI Credit card currently running @ €2,400

My aim is to have in gone on or before October which is very realistic.

Then onto the Halifax card.


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## Greta

Well done!


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## niceoneted

Tomtim, well done so far you are doing great. 
I'm just wondering why has the mortgage payment decreased - it was €1024 in your initial post and is now down to 810 - have you gotten an interest only period.( might have missed this along the way in the thread sorry if I did). 
Also There is no mention of the payment on the BOI loan. what is happening there? 

Well done overall though with almost €800 surplus. Keep it up and you know what before too long you will not only have cleared your debt but you will not believe the savings you have.


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## tomtim

Yes I'm on interest only until November then its up for review again.

The BOI loan and Over Draft are with the solicitors - I met with mabs to try and negotiate a  payment plan so should have an update on this in the coming months.

The main focus is clearing the existing debt one at a time - It will be a long process but its great finally knowing where we stand every month.


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## horusd

Great stuff tomtim. It might be useful to factor in (and save) the amount due for mortgage and BOI loan/OD. You could set up a separate account for these. One of the instant access high interest one's might be useful, such as P/tsb online account offering 4%, or some other option, if that's not possible.  Eventually you will have to return to normal payments, and it's as well if you begin to cope with this. You may also need to cope with an interest rate rise. Dealing with these now as if they were happening will give you a more accurate picture of what sustainable budgetting is, and allow you to continue to make savings where possible. 

 It might also be useful to try & reduce the food budget to 450  pm and see how that goes.


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## tomtim

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]Yes I agree - the BOI loan and OD is still hanging over me - My plan is to clear all existing debt before the BOI payments – These will most likely be 500 per month.

My goals and the totals I want to clear are,

BOI CC: 2400 (Oct 2011)
Halifax CC: 4800 (July 2012)
Family Loan: 1800 (Nov 2012)
Mortgage Arrears: 6000 (Dec 2013)

Total: 15,000 @ 500pm = 2.5 years


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## choccy

what exactly does your wife spend the 175 per week on if not food (which comesfrom the 500 budget)- is she still clothes shopping? 
you should get her to direct most of this money to littlewoods at least til its cleared especially as i'm guessing she ran up that bill. 39.5 % interest is insanely high- if you can squeez few extra euro from anywher its your highest interest rate by far so should be a priority. 

also for who ever does the food shop- apart from buying your tomatoes/ beans/ pasta /cereals from Aldi /Lidl ( half the price ) you can make great savings by watch the meat offers in supervalu and dunnes- they usually have 3 items for a tenner- eg a chicken, 4 chops and a pound of mince. so sounds like not much but means you have have 3 family dinners for 15 euro when you throw in a few spuds and veg.  

babies can suck a lot of cash up too so same goes for nappies- see how your 1 yr old goes on aldi nappies- 8 euro for huge pack and they're fine. watch out for deals in boots on baby formula ( normally about 8-9 euro a tin- they often do the 2 for 1 offer on it ), only buy baby wipes when they less than 1.30 a pack, own brand baby shampoo is grand. only buy kids clothes in pennys. 

all this ads up to savings over course of a month or more and you shoudl be able to get below the 500 for food easily.
but you seem to be nabk in control so good luck with your savings plan !


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## tomtim

Thanks for the comments - The littlewoods debt is gone now - paid in full.

I am monitoring the daily / weekly spend so the 175 is generous. Will keep an eye on it.


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## tvman

Tomtim

that's a very impressive turnaround in the last few months - well done

tvman


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## xpresso

*well done Tomtim*

I am inspired by your commitment tomtim, I know I am only of the lucky ones (so far!) and I am well aware that I could be in the same situation easily in a couple of months if I lost my job. This thread should be a great training session for people who want to reduce their debt.  I monitor our outgoings weekly using a spreadsheet and once every month I look at an outgoing and aim to reduce it even by a few euros. One of our main things we do when we want to buy something is to look at it, write down WHY we want it! Then wait a week or so and if we still think we need it then we buy it,(we often forget what we wanted in the first place) but we would never buy something we didn’t really need if we did not have the cash in the bank, our only loan is the mortgage as we took a similar approach to what you have done about 2 years ago. It is worth it; please keep it up and even this post. It gives you a focus and encouraging comments. My Partner has a budget of 300 euro per month which is transferred to her bank account monthly I have the same. So If we want to go out, go on holiday / weekend away or need clothes it comes out of our individual accounts, the joint account then pays all the bills and even that now is building up savings but that is then used for emergencies. We intend when the joint account reaches €1500 is to move that money to a savings account that we can’t touch for 40days. Then build it up again and transfer that money etc. 

Note : we are also 1 Income, Spouse & 2 Kids (net income 3200  including Child allowance) similar outgoings but no CC or overdraft debts).

we will watch this post with interest.


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## Mommah

truthseeker said:


> You havent listed any entertainment expenses or gym etc... Make sure to include these in your budget so you dont accidently run over.


+1 
You need some sort of social life or you'll end up going off the deep end.
Maybe once a month out together and once a month out with friends.??


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## tomtim

Hi All,

Another quick update - Month 5 now (Things are looking up)
I didn't post anything for month 4 because we had a holiday that cost €950 so wiped us out - I personally knew by going it would cause financial grief but foolishly agreed to go.

Anyways Budget this month:

Mortgage    820
Gas/Electricity    100
Phones 65
Internet 100 (Didn't pay in month 4)
Food Supplies    500
Car Petrol 90
House Maintenance 80
Bank of Ireland Credit Card 100
Halifax Credit Card 200
Life Assurance    22
Family Debt 50
Kids Club 80
TV License 160
Car Tax 100
Car Insurance 133 (First payment for new policy - 38pm for 10 months)
Family loan 300 (Because of the holiday )
Home improvement 100

*Total Income: €3,700 (Slight increase this month)
Total Outgoing: **€**3,000
Remainder: **€700**
Surplus of €700

*So everything is paid and with the increase in income this month I can knock a good bit from the Bank of Ireland Credit card.Overall happy with how things are progressing*.
*


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## niceoneted

Tomtim, thanks for the update. You might post current outstanding balances on the CC's so as it can show how you are getting on. 
could you use the €700 surplus to actually pay for the car insurance rather than having the 10 monthly installments to pay and then you could put the installment money away each month and you will have insurance money up front from next year.


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## JoeRoberts

I've followed this tread for a few months and greatly admire the way Tomtim has taken control and set out on the correct road. Like many peeps he is coming from a place where he did not understand his expenditure.

But then I see €950 on a holiday. I just don't understand this. 

We are not in the difficulties that tomtim is in but still decided against holiday this year. I think people have to get this holiday idea out of their heads for a few yrs. Have a holiday at home in your own house with a few day trips with a picnic doing things you could not normally do while at work. A holiday is about changing the daily routine. e.g. having the dinner in the garden on a tuesday.

Phones + internet still at €115 / mth - this is unreal.
Find the lowest package available that gets a basic connection. We pay €45 / mth for all local calls (anytime) and 8mb internet to Vodafone. There is a €40 package with off-peak calls. Plus we allow €20 each for mobile. Total €85.


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## Khublei

JoeRoberts said:


> I've followed this tread for a few months and greatly admire the way Tomtim has taken control and set out on the correct road. Like many peeps he is coming from a place where he did not understand his expenditure.
> 
> But then I see €950 on a holiday. I just don't understand this.
> 
> We are not in the difficulties that tomtim is in but still decided against holiday this year. I think people have to get this holiday idea out of their heads for a few yrs. Have a holiday at home in your own house with a few day trips with a picnic doing things you could not normally do while at work. A holiday is about changing the daily routine. e.g. having the dinner in the garden on a tuesday.
> 
> Phones + internet still at €115 / mth - this is unreal.
> Find the lowest package available that gets a basic connection. We pay €45 / mth for all local calls (anytime) and 8mb internet to Vodafone. There is a €40 package with off-peak calls. Plus we allow €20 each for mobile. Total €85.



Ah well now he already said it wasn't the best idea. I know lots of people who aren't in the best financial place but still went on holidays this year. Mental health is very important too, you should do whatever it takes to stay healthy. 
Keep going Timtims, you're doing well!


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## tomtim

Month 6 is finished - Getting easier now although the morgage will be jumping to 1100/1200 from December and the €20,000 BOI loan has came up with the solicitors, I sent them an offer letter which hopefully will be accepted otherwise it will be going to court.

Budget this month:

Mortgage 900 (Still on interest only)
Gas/Electricity    155
Phones 55 - (Soon to be 25 - My contract is nearly finished)
Internet 40 (Saving 10 per month on this)
Food Supplies    500
Car Petrol 90
House Maintenance 80
Bank of Ireland Credit Card 100
Halifax Credit Card 300
Life Assurance    22
Family Debt 190
Car Insurance 39

*Total Income: €3,021
Total Outgoing: **€**2,471
Remainder: **€550

*Will be able to put some money onto the BOI credit card this month and have a contingency incase anything comes up*.
*
Thanks for the comments so far, its really helps knowing people are following my story. It certainly makes for a better home life knowing there is money there from the first of the month until the end.


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## truthseeker

tomtin - youre doing great. Really well done!!

Its so good that you come back and post updates, this thread will be so useful to people who find themselves in a similar situation to you and cant see a way out.


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## tomtim

Some more good news - The BOI debt have accepted a reasonable payment plan that’s affordable so hopefully that’s everything in place for me to clear the debts over the next couple of years.

I'll keep this thread updated every month!


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## Bronte

tomtim said:


> Thanks for the comments so far, its really helps knowing people are following my story. It certainly makes for a better home life knowing there is money there from the first of the month until the end.


 
This is a great thread, you are doing so well and are such an inspiration to others.  Well done on the BofI deal, it shows others that if they sit down with their bank deals can be made.  

You might need to factor in saving something for xMas.  You don't want to get wiped out again by a big blip like that.  Home made presents etc.  I had roast chicken for xmas dinner last year (long story) and it was a perfect dinner in every way, the best in years.


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## xpresso

*keep it going*

Hello Tomtim,

Just wondering how you were getting on 6 months down the line.

hope all is to plan and all going well.


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## Odea

Bronte said:


> . I had roast chicken for xmas dinner last year (long story) and it was a perfect dinner in every way, the best in years.


  Just to throw in something here. SuperValu had frozen turkeys on special last December for one day only at €5 for 4 kilo bird. I also picked one up this Easter also for €5. Available one day only. You need to register with website to get email that is sent out the day before. Bought the following in Aldi on Good Friday. 2 kilo bag of Kerr Pink Potatoes 18c, pack of 6 tomatoes 18c, Bag of carrots 18c, 6 Kiwis 18c, pack of Parsnips 18c.
I certainly think that roast chicken is more flavoursome than turkey.


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## tomtim

Its been ~6 years since my last post.. hard to believe but so much has changed since 2012. 

In late 2012 I decided we were not going to sacrifice the next 30 years paying down a 250k mortgage for a 2 bed apartment which was valued at 100k and needing 30k remedial works due to extensive pyrite damage. I voluntarily surrendered the property and focused on earning more to provide for my family. I set a goal of earning three digits per year and started working towards it. It required moving city, a lot of sacrifice and changing companies a number of times but here we are. Its been a very hard slog, I'm on the verge of tears thinking about all the financial This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language we have been through as a family the last few years, I won't bore you with the stories but there are many. 
All debts are paid off now and we are finally comfortable every month, not needing to worry about bills, when is payday, selling stuff to pay bills and so on. I am happy to report we have zero loans or credit cards and I can say with absolute certainty it will stay that way indefinitely. The focus now is on continuing to increase our income, continue saving and purchasing a home with zero mortgage. We have decided to wait this current housing bubble out for 5 more years and evaluate.

I will report back again hopefully sooner this time.


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## dub_nerd

Congrats!


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## RichInSpirit

Congrats Tomtim!


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## gnf_ireland

Congrats on sorting out your financial affairs - not easily done I am sure, and was no doubt required very hard decisions



tomtim said:


> purchasing a home with zero mortgage


This is a noble objective, but if you are paying rent at the same time as saving for a house it may not be the wisest strategy overall.

That said, you may not be in Ireland and therefore things may be different


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## PGF2016

Fair play. Well done.


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## Humpty Dumpty

Brilliant


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## Noble_T

Just wow! I was sending you a pm about something but looks like the feature is disabled (or I'm just unable to find the option).


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## Leo

Noble_T said:


> Just wow! I was sending you a pm about something but looks like the feature is disabled (or I'm just unable to find the option).



New members are not allowed to PM.


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