# Primary School Question .



## senni (26 Jun 2013)

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*Hi Please help me ..Yesterday my 6 year old son came home in tears , telling me as best he could ( no school note ) that his class is "breaking up" and he is going into a different class (1st ) next year with some boys who are not his buddies. His two best friends are going together into another class . So i asked his principal this morning to explain as he doesnt know whats after happening...  THe Principal tells me that they have received an extra teacher for mainstream, she needs to use her up so she is splitting all of the new 1st class up for septand he will have only 14 in his new class  ( yes 14 ! ) I said but " he is not with his two friends " but two boys he never ever plays with . The principal explained that he had picked these other boys himself ..I said When ?  MY son says he didnt and doesnt know or rem being asked ( hes only 6 ! ) i asked her could he go in with his friends if the class numbers are so small as his socialable and emotional side will suffer if he changes from his best friends now after 2 years together ..she flatly told me no !and i have no rights to expect it to be chasnged and shes not changing her mind .. I was flummoxed !  ive never ever ever caused a problem , gone in , complained on anything with this school. In fact my two older children went though it , with brilliant results . She is a new principal since last year. she says he is with his friends and im saying hes not ( i dont even know the other boys ..) and shes says there is nothing i can do about it !! Really.. Have I any rights ..she tells me NO " Im devasted for my little fella , who now thinks he did something wrong.. hes only 6.. and a good little boy ..middle of the road accademically but a lovely little chappy ...have i no input re my childs education or emotional or social rights ??? 
Can she just do this to him and i cant say ..please dont ... he is so sad tonight ... I jave requested a second meeting on monday so that my husband can come in as my boy does not understand ...please give me some guidance


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## redwellies (26 Jun 2013)

While I understand your son is upset at the prospect of his class being broken up, in the long term he will be incredibly lucky being in a smaller sized class.
Most classes today have 30 children, or there about. Your son will benefit from having much more one to one time with his teacher. 
I am assuming your little boy is going into senior infants..... Would I be right in assuming he knew very few of the children in his class when he first started in Junior Infants? ... I'm sure by the end of day one he was coming home with stories about his new friends.
I'm sure your little boys worries are only being nurtured by your own apprehensions...... Being mixed up with other children is not going to have a long lasting emotional impact on your little boy. If anything, it will be a positive experience for him.


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## PaddyBloggit (26 Jun 2013)

The school should have a written policy in relation to splitting classes.

In our school classes are split according to pupils' ages.

Ask to see the policy.


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## Sandals (27 Jun 2013)

My daughters class was split - in boys and girls. Boys moved into principal class but unfort girls stayed with past years teacher and now I def feel my child was at a loss as she repeatedly said they doing stuff they'd done before. We did get a letter discussing this change etc.

Children are very resilient, The new boys could turn out to be his friends for life.


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## Curlysue76 (27 Jun 2013)

A few years ago my son's year had one and a half classes, the other half class shared a teacher with class below. Then they decided to make 2 smaller classes. My son was one of the youngest in his class so was offered to move over to other class with some other kids. I was asked to come in and discuss this with the principle. Only one other boy was willing to move as well. Luckily it was my son's best friend. It was totally up to us if he moved or not. 
I know this is not always possible but i think you should have been given some notice about this and a chance to discuss it with teacher or principle. It worked out well for my son as he loved this new teacher and was in a smaller class so got more attention. 
Your son will adapt very quickly to the new class. Is there any chance you could arrange play dates with some of the kids in the new class over the summer holidays? I don't mean to be flippant but your son is very young and 2 months off is a long time and by sept he will prob be over his upset. 

Hope it all works out for him.


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## AlbacoreA (27 Jun 2013)

Our school refuses any individual requests for moves between classes to be near friends. Because they reckon they be flooded with requests. And I assume they can't make everyone (parents) happy. I can't imagine there would be that many requests as most kids would be happy where they are. 

I'd be more concerned where the teacher tells you something that doesn't ring true, like they are his friends when you know they aren't. Kids will often give an answer they think people want to hear rather than what they really feel. Perhaps that happened. Bit it seems odd to the kids would be asked to pick themselves. I find that hard to believe. Do teachers agree with the Principle, that these are his friends?

Meeting the same kids out of school in football, swimming or other such class will help to bond them and mix. We done this a lot as one of ours had a similar experience being one of the few to split from his peers when the classes were created and divided. I think its important to be with your friends.


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## fobs (27 Jun 2013)

My kids have both been in mixed classes and we were given no choice on the matter. In my daughters school they mox the class so there is a mix of ability in the classes. THey were allowed to write the names of 3 of their friiends and were guaranteed they would end up in same class of at least one (she was 4th class at the time so older)

My son in his previous school there was 2-3 classes each year of his year (mixed sex up to 1st class then they change school) and they mixed them up each year. He had no bother making new friends and it helped widen his circle of friends.


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## TarfHead (27 Jun 2013)

If I were you, I would take this as a given and sell the upside to your son. He is to be one in a class of 14, so there are 13 other kids for him to get to know. I assume all first class classes will have common break times so he'll still get to see his current buddies at break and yard time. And there's always the after-school time to plan for.

I think you should work with the Principal on this one. If she accomodates your request, then she may have other requests to accomodate so it is easier to not allow any.

I believe you do not have any rights to be upheld by the Principal.

With 14, you've a lot to be grateful for. My son finishes national school tomorrow and his class has been over 30 since 2005.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

HI RedWellies..Thank you for your reply ..My son is going into 1st class and has spent 2 years primary and 1 year post primary with his 2 other friends .. he is not with either now and he is very very upset.I do not show my feelings to him on the contrary i am up beat about it but he is terribly terribly sad. His class only had 20 in it before so to mash them all up at this stage i think is madness.  



redwellies said:


> I am assuming your little boy is going into senior infants..... Would I be right in assuming he knew very few of the children in his class when he first started in Junior Infants? ... I'm sure by the end of day one he was coming home with stories about his new friends.
> 
> 
> I'm sure your little boys worries are only being nurtured by your own apprehensions...... Being mixed up with other children is not going to have a long lasting emotional impact on your little boy. If anything, it will be a positive experience for him.


 
I know that Social and Emotional wellbeing of children are as important as educational and he has to start all over again while his friends bound happily together into theres.. no its just not right .


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Dear PaddyBloggit

That is a great idea, thank you for your advice , as its advice about bringing the matter forward i am after ..Board of Management ...INTO ..Dept Of Education



PaddyBloggit said:


> The school should have a written policy in relation to splitting classes.
> 
> 
> Ask to see the policy.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Dear Mugga

Yes this is a huge point with all the parents ..

No Note
No Communication from the school
Letting a 6 year old , go home to explain to his parents when he isnt even sure himself what is going on or why other than how upsat he is that he is not with his 2 friends , who are together.. The new principal is acting like the something out of the novel Animal Farm ..an indifference "Napolean is always right" George Orwell ... Well i am sorry but Principals are not always right..but it seems they can do what they want...



mugga said:


> Iwould agree with this, although I do think the school should hae notified parents of this


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Dear Sandals

Thank You ...Somebody who emotionally knows what he is feeling and what i am worried about .. THis is my third child and i know how some changes can affect education...As someone who has a third level education, i know that peers are as important as teachers..

He is not with any of his friends but split ..




Thank you 





Sandals said:


> My daughters class was split - in boys and girls. Boys moved into principal class but unfort girls stayed with past years teacher and now I def feel my child was at a loss as she repeatedly said they doing stuff they'd done before. We did get a letter discussing this change etc.
> 
> Children are very resilient, The new boys could turn out to be his friends for life.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

THanks Curlysue,

I agree with you re the comunication ..which was totally void ..

unfortunately ...lets call a spade a spade ..

these other 3 boys are not the type to invite over, even for a play date .. they are boys whos language is very colourful etc..

now blast me if thats terrible to say but this is the truth ... 

so no this is not an option 



Curlysue76 said:


> A few years ago my son's year had one and a half classes, the other half class shared a teacher with class below. Then they decided to make 2 smaller classes. My son was one of the youngest in his class so was offered to move over to other class with some other kids. I was asked to come in and discuss this with the principle. Only one other boy was willing to move as well. Luckily it was my son's best friend. It was totally up to us if he moved or not.
> I know this is not always possible but i think you should have been given some notice about this and a chance to discuss it with teacher or principle. It worked out well for my son as he loved this new teacher and was in a smaller class so got more attention.
> Your son will adapt very quickly to the new class. Is there any chance you could arrange play dates with some of the kids in the new class over the summer holidays? I don't mean to be flippant but your son is very young and 2 months off is a long time and by sept he will prob be over his upset.
> 
> Hope it all works out for him.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

THanks Albacore 

Would you believe it some parents dont even know yet .. as their children havent told them ..one parent was shocked when i asked her what she thought ? she reallly did not know ( no note ) and her boy had not told her .. upon asking him in front of me , he said he wasnt sure ...he only knew his class room number.. 

some parents are abroad as they took their kids out early to go on hols ..

He genuinely is not a happy bunny . His principal told me he is with a friend ..its laughable hes not .. my son said the other boys picked each othar and some other boy picked him ..he thought it was to sit on a bus to go somewhere ...they are only 6 and didnt understand ..i mean to send out no notes ..is just amazing 

His Teacher pulled me aside and told me "that if it was her child she would be very unhappy for my little boy as he didnt go with any friends " she said not to use her name as she would have to deny it ..imagine her own teachers are scared of the principal !! this upset me more.  



AlbacoreA said:


> Our school refuses any individual requests for moves between classes to be near friends. Because they reckon they be flooded with requests. And I assume they can't make everyone (parents) happy. I can't imagine there would be that many requests as most kids would be happy where they are.
> 
> I'd be more concerned where the teacher tells you something that doesn't ring true, like they are his friends when you know they aren't. Kids will often give an answer they think people want to hear rather than what they really feel. Perhaps that happened. Bit it seems odd to the kids would be asked to pick themselves. I find that hard to believe. Do teachers agree with the Principle, that these are his friends?
> 
> Meeting the same kids out of school in football, swimming or other such class will help to bond them and mix. We done this a lot as one of ours had a similar experience being one of the few to split from his peers when the classes were created and divided. I think its important to be with your friends.


 
I alawys meet his friends for rugby, hurling and gaa football and his friends come over here regularly so he will keep in contact with them that way but again from his point of view.. its now 2 together and he is on his own .. its so sad for his little body to be thinking like that and in no way do i enforce it ..i am extreamly positive about it all


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Dear TarfHead

Are we not in a democracy ?? Does a principal rule with no Accountability ?? really ???

NO NOte 

No Communication

I am not the only parent annoyed ...

Surely she could have put him with 1 friend .. 


I am sorry but this Principal has caused a good few enemies in her first year ...

Communication is everything


TarfHead said:


> If I were you, I would take this as a given and sell the upside to your son. He is to be one in a class of 14, so there are 13 other kids for him to get to know. I assume all first class classes will have common break times so he'll still get to see his current buddies at break and yard time. And there's always the after-school time to plan for.
> 
> I think you should work with the Principal on this one. If she accomodates your request, then she may have other requests to accomodate so it is easier to not allow any.
> 
> ...


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Surely We can go to the board of management , INTO or the DEpt of Education to voice our dissattisfaction as to the way the principal did not communicate these changes ? 

SURELY ?


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## AlbacoreA (1 Jul 2013)

I would keep up the pressure. In my experience schools and principles are a law unto themselves. If you could get some of the teachers on your side it would probably help. I would try everything. 

We went through an issue with our local schools changing the catchment unfairly and got nowhere. They can simply do what they like, once its in their rules somewhere. As Paddy said you should ask to see their policy on splitting classes.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

I just spoke to the dept of education and seemingly ... they are powerless ... imagine ..another aspect of this beautiful country with no accountability ...politicians , bankers , financial regulators and now principals !! 

I can go to the board of management and thereafter the BISHOP !!!! The Dept can do nothing 

How in the name of god is there no accountability for PRINCIPALS ... Madness ..

I love our country but sometimes it infuriates me


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

AlbacoreA said:


> In my experience schools and principles are a law unto themselves.
> 
> 
> Oh So True


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

OH SO TRUE 



AlbacoreA said:


> . In my experience schools and principles are a law unto themselves.


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## Leo (1 Jul 2013)

senni said:


> Are we not in a democracy ?? Does a principal rule with no Accountability ?? really ???



Schools aren't democracies!


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## TarfHead (1 Jul 2013)

senni said:


> .. Are we not in a democracy ?? Does a principal rule with no Accountability ?? really ??


 
I did not state that '_a principal rules without accountability_'. I offered an opinion that you do not have a right to expect for your point of view to be upheld. If you don't like how a school is managed, you know what to do.

The principal is accountable for the smooth running of the school. It would be chaotic is the principal had to take into account all individual preferences. This principal would seem, on your account, to have 'dropped the ball' on the way in which this decision was communicated. buit that's in the past and can't be revisited.

In my daughter's school, there has been a significant turnover in teachers, people on temporary contracts getting permanent positions in another school, people taking career breaks, people retiring. My daughter's class is the only one for which the teacher for next year has yet to be announced. My wife, my daughter and I don't like that uncertainty, but that's something for my wife and I to deal with.

I was talking to the principal of a different school last week. 2 days before the school breaks for the Summer holiday he gets his confirmed teacher numbers for September and they're significantly different to what he had been planning for. So now he has to start again.

School principal ? I wouldn't do it for twice the money.


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

Leo said:


> Schools aren't democracies!


 

no and seems neither is ireland !


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## senni (1 Jul 2013)

I will do a letter to the board of management with the view that ... communication was void in the implementation of splitting up all the first classes ..

Hopefully in the future this principal may learn to send out notes to us , the parents communicating new changes, whatever they are..

Communicating is key ... properly and not through a six year old..

The dept needs to change this system fast


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2013)

senni said:


> no and seems neither is ireland !



What is that supposed to mean?


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## Woodie (1 Jul 2013)

OP asked for guidance.  IMHO whilst this is perhaps a traumatic incident in your young child's life now it will be long forgotten soon enough.  Life  throws many different paths at our children including some neither they nor we fully can control.  Personally I feel these challenges will be character builders on how to cope with the adversities of life.  Maybe at six in a smaller class your child will make new friends and experience new things.   For sure once primary ends the whole process will start again and again at university DG that you get that far.
Lining up for a moral battle and talk of democracy on what is a relatively minor issue seems a bit over the top.  Take a deep breath and explain to your child that sometimes we are placed where we don't want to be but if we are brave and open we can experience exciting new things.  The existing friends (if they really are) will still be there after school and at break.  If you find at a later date the experience is negatively impacting your child's learning then by all means get your self in gear for a campaign to change it.


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## dmos87 (1 Jul 2013)

OP, you want opinions, and mine is that you are making this a far bigger deal than it really is. Classes are split all the time in primary schools - its very common, happened to me twice. Did you expect them to stay in the same class forever, and on to college together too?!? Yes, your son is in one class and two friends in another. Next year it might change again. 

When I was younger, we moved a lot as my family grew. I clocked up 4 different primary schools in total. With each new school I went to, I lost my existing friends and had to start all over again. First day of school was met with anxiety but I always got through it. I now have a few different groups of friends, but I can honestly say none of my close friends are from primary school - its all from 1st year onwards. That might be in part because we moved so much but it hasn't done me any harm! In fact, I reckon its part of why I am so sociable, having to make new friends. I was a bit of a target, big glasses, awkward etc. so yeah, I reckon it helped.

There are only a few things you as a parent can really do:

1 - Talk to principal re: notification going forward. (Remember that even if you had been told, theres still nothing you could have changed about it).
2 - Explain to your son that as he gets older and goes into new years, he won't always have the same people in his class - and highlight this is a good thing because he will make more and more friends and get to know everyone. Explain he will still see the other two at activities etc.
3 - On first day back at school, have a quick word with his new teacher, explain his anxieties (and yours), and ask her to sit him with someone who is friendly. 

At the end of the day, he will be fine. This is a life lesson for him, it will not scar him as you fear. You can't shelter him from this unfortunately.


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## AlbacoreA (1 Jul 2013)

I don't think you can assume all kids will react in the same way.


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