# BoS Tracker - Mortgage Capital Write-down - no arrears - How To?



## slingblade (21 Apr 2013)

Hi,
    I have a tracker mortgage with Halifax Ireland of 390,000 with 30 years left.
Rate is ECB +.75.

I am not in arrears.

How do I go about negotiating a capital write-down on condition I pay them off in full?

What sort of % write down of the capital could be possible with Halifax?

thanks in advance


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## Luternau (21 Apr 2013)

Why would they agree to any write down? You are not in arrears. They will just state that you adhere to the agreement you entered -and to which they are honouring.


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## ang1170 (21 Apr 2013)

Luternau said:


> Why would they agree to any write down? You are not in arrears. They will just state that you adhere to the agreement you entered -and to which they are honouring.


 
Because at that rate of interest, it is loss-making for them?


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## Luternau (21 Apr 2013)

Maybe, it is loss making. But how will writing off some of a loss making loan benefit them?
However, if you were in a position to pay off the mortgage or a significant chunk of it, you may get a deal that way. PTSB did offer a % bonus on lumpsums off trackers before-pay 5k, get €500 (I think it was 5%) added to it. That was a long time ago though.


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## slingblade (21 Apr 2013)

*Reasoning for deal*

Hi Luternau,
                There have been several articles in the national press that have stated that a 300k mortgage with 20 years to run will cost a bank up to 100K.
This takes into account the cost that the banks have to borrow the money at in order to lend it out at a lower rate for the next 20 years.

Halifax have also recently sold their Irish commercial loan book at 20c in the euro and seem to want to get out of Ireland at any cost.


best regards


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## Luternau (21 Apr 2013)

I am aware of the articles but they are generic ones that include Irish banks-how do you know BOSI are loosing money on them for certain? They can get funds from the UK cheaper than Irish banks get money.
Re selling the loans to 3rd parties, it's easier for them to do this in blocks, than get into separate deals with individual borrowers. 
There are other threads on this and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has got a deal. Why should they dona deal if the borrower is paying? 
I will give you the point that if they are loss making they should be keen to do deals. So, make them a reasonable offer to pay the loan in full (not a restructure) and see what they say!


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## ang1170 (22 Apr 2013)

Luternau said:


> There are other threads on this and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has got a deal. Why should they dona deal if the borrower is paying?
> I will give you the point that if they are loss making they should be keen to do deals. So, make them a reasonable offer to pay the loan in full (not a restructure) and see what they say!


 
You've answered your own question: they'd do a deal if it reduced that loss. Whether they would actually do one in practice is another matter entirely, as it has very widespread implications.

To the OP: I'd try and get advice from someone who's actually done this, but it could be very difficult to find someone who will talk about it, if it has indeed happened.


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## Commercial (22 Apr 2013)

I am dealing with BOS/Certus on a weekly basis and they are not doing deals based on trackers on private homes to the best of my knowledge. If you were in arrears and showing distress financially, they would sell the property to a third party at market value, but it has to be an arms length transaction and not a lump sum from the mortgage holder.
So you're chances of a deal are slim to nil, unless they sell the loan book to a third party fund. They have sold only a portion of the commercial loan book to a third party, the rest is being administered by Certus.


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## Luternau (22 Apr 2013)

ang1170 said:


> You've answered your own question: they'd do a deal if it reduced that loss.



I also said that I felt it was unlikely they would get a deal, a point you also agree with, and so too does @Commercial. More questions in my post than answers!
Logic tells you they should do a deal, however that does not mean they are doing them or will. Lots of other factors at play.


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## slingblade (24 Apr 2013)

*Any Recommendations*

Hi,
    Could anybody recommend a solicitor or agent who has experience getting write-downs off the bank?

thanks
John


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## ally_f00 (30 Apr 2013)

Hi commercial quick question for u please have an outstanding mortage of 350k on a motorium. partner died in a car accident and unfortunately no mortgage protection. Small life assurance for 100k and house value is 140k. Have tried to get debt writedown but they have refused twice. Mortgage is circa 1200 a month cant now afford that as single parent. Self employed earning around 1000 a month after expenses. Do u believe they are definitely not doin debt writedown and there next step would be repossession as I cant honestly afford repayments of 1200 due to my circumstances. If I was to get full time employment earning say 18k I would then have to pay crèche fees etc so income unfortunately wont change. My partner was the main earner


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## Bronte (30 Apr 2013)

ally_f00 said:


> an outstanding mortage of 350k on a motorium. Small life assurance for 100k and house value is 140k. Mortgage is circa 1200 a month cant now afford that as single parent. Self employed earning around 1000 a month after expenses.


 
Hi Ally and sorry for your tragic circumstances.  What are you intending to do with the 100K.  Are you not entitled to mortgage interest supplement.  With that you could surely afford to pay the mortgage using the 100K for the capital element?


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## Palerider (30 Apr 2013)

Debt writes off are not new, they have always been there going back as far as you want to, they are an everyday part of the risks of being in the lending business.

Debt write downs only really came into peoples minds when it could impact them, deals are being done taht write off portions of debt, each one is based on commercial reality and each subject to a confidentiality agreement. If I were to benefit then I would not be talking about it anywhere.


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## TRS30 (30 Apr 2013)

Palerider said:


> Debt writes off are not new, they have always been there going back as far as you want to, they are an everyday part of the risks of being in the lending business.
> 
> Debt write downs only really came into peoples minds when it could impact them, deals are being done taht write off portions of debt, each one is based on commercial reality and each subject to a confidentiality agreement. If I were to benefit then I would not be talking about it anywhere.



Interesting point. Would a confidentiality agreement preclude you from posting anonymously about in on a website such as this?


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## Commercial (30 Apr 2013)

The confidentiality agreements are primarily to prevent you from going to the media. How can it prevent you from posting anonymously as TRS30 stated or speaking to friends and family. 
I have been involved in a debt writedown where I have not been asked to sign a confidentiality agreement which was an oversight on the Banks behalf.


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## TRS30 (30 Apr 2013)

Commercial said:


> The confidentiality agreements are primarily to prevent you from going to the media. How can it prevent you from posting anonymously as TRS30 stated or speaking to friends and family.
> I have been involved in a debt writedown where I have not been asked to sign a confidentiality agreement which was an oversight on the Banks behalf.



Commercial

What are your thoughts on BOSI approach to write downs in the medium to long term? 

With the likely ECB rate cut in the next couple of weeks will this put them under more pressure regarding their tracker mortgage customers? 

Do you think they will only do deals (at any time) with those in arrears or will obvious unsustainable mortgages?

I appreciate it is only your thoughts or opinion. 

Thanks


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## honest (30 Apr 2013)

Commercial said:


> I have been involved in a debt writedown where I have not been asked to sign a confidentiality agreement which was an oversight on the Banks behalf.


Its interesting that many peoples experience with banks is different. Sometimes even when arranging the mortgage,the banks can neglect to evaluate borrowers ability to repay or even check if they are in a job or business or not. Other oversights can include getting people to sign a confidentiality agreement, as was your experience with your debt writedown.  Did they ask you for a sworn statement of affairs, or is that always or not always asked for too?


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## Commercial (30 Apr 2013)

A sworn statement of affairs has always been asked for, in my experience.


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## Bronte (3 May 2013)

slingblade said:


> Hi,
> Could anybody recommend a solicitor or agent who has experience getting write-downs off the bank?
> 
> thanks
> John


 
You could probably do the negotiation yourself.  Not sure how much cash you have but have you worked out if you can get a better return on the money than paying off your mortgage?


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## slingblade (12 May 2013)

Hi Bronte,
             I would only pay down the mortgage if they give me a significant write-down otherwise they can hold the mortgage for the next 30 years and incur annual losses every year if they prefer.  

thanks


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## Luternau (12 May 2013)

Why would they do a deal?

@Commercial has already said they are not doing deals on Residential mortgages. 

You seem to have an idea what you want from them so make them an offer and see what they say. What harm?


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## Gerry Canning (13 May 2013)

slingblade said:


> Hi,
> I have a tracker mortgage with Halifax Ireland of 390,000 with 30 years left.
> Rate is ECB +.75.
> 
> ...


...................................
On standard mortgages I have heard of no write downs whilst the customer is paying. It would make commercial sense to cut their losses and give you a circa 20% writedown as they are (giving) you money as it is. Halifax are presently wading through Commercial and Buy to Let stuff. I would think they will in time visit cost of Trackers.
If you have a few bob, lock it into somewhere like Post Office and await developments.


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## TRS30 (13 May 2013)

As per my other thread on this subject, I have written to BOS again today to ask them for their position on a number of different options, including any capital write down. 

Will let you know their response.


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## homers (28 May 2013)

Hi TRS30.. have you had any feedback from BOS on the options?


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## TRS30 (29 May 2013)

homers said:


> Hi TRS30.. have you had any feedback from BOS on the options?



Nope; no response as of yet. 

However when I was on the phone to them about an issue to do my DD's the guy was reading some notes on my file (not sure if he was suppose to be reading them out loud to me!) and one was in relation to a request for a redemption figure which is supposedly with the under writers. 

So at least I know they have the request so will sit tight and wait for a response. 

Will update once received.


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## franknew275 (4 Aug 2013)

Commercial said:


> I am dealing with BOS/Certus on a weekly basis and they are not doing deals based on trackers on private homes to the best of my knowledge. If you were in arrears and showing distress financially, they would sell the property to a third party at market value, but it has to be an arms length transaction and not a lump sum from the mortgage holder.
> So you're chances of a deal are slim to nil, unless they sell the loan book to a third party fund. They have sold only a portion of the commercial loan book to a third party, the rest is being administered by Certus.



Hi you say you are dealing with BOS/certus, I am looking for someone to negotiate on my behalf if you are intersted


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## TRS30 (6 Aug 2013)

TRS30 said:


> Nope; no response as of yet.
> 
> However when I was on the phone to them about an issue to do my DD's the guy was reading some notes on my file (not sure if he was suppose to be reading them out loud to me!) and one was in relation to a request for a redemption figure which is supposedly with the under writers.
> 
> ...



Just a quick update. 

I have still not received a response to my letter sent in May to wrote them again last week with a copy of the original letter sent. Hopefully they will reply to this one!


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## LH80 (19 Sep 2013)

Any response yet? I have 2 investment mortgages which are both interest only for the lifetime of the mortgage and are both low trackers. I wonder would I be able to do a deal.


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## TRS30 (20 Sep 2013)

LH80 said:


> Any response yet? I have 2 investment mortgages which are both interest only for the lifetime of the mortgage and are both low trackers. I wonder would I be able to do a deal.



No!

I finally rang BOSI directly last week and they confirmed they received by letter on the 2 August however no one could tell me why I didnt get a response. Someone was to ring me back in 48 hours, this day last week!

This has just reminded me that I was to ring them again. Will do it now.


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## TRS30 (13 Nov 2013)

TRS30 said:


> No!
> 
> I finally rang BOSI directly last week and they confirmed they received by letter on the 2 August however no one could tell me why I didnt get a response. Someone was to ring me back in 48 hours, this day last week!
> 
> This has just reminded me that I was to ring them again. Will do it now.



Just to update. 

Finally got a response from BOSI; no apology for taking 3 1/2 months to reply!

They are not willing to offer any discount on paying off either PPR or BTL tracker. Standard blurb about they having the right to receive full repayment etc. 

Guess that puts that to bed for awhile. 

Is going to be a hard choice now to move house as the tracker has just got cheaper again!


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## cremeegg (13 Nov 2013)

Hi TRS30

I have just seen this thread for the first time. I am in a similar position. 

In all the research I have done the one clear piece of information I have gained is that they want you to make them an offer.

e.g. I will pay you €30k in full and final settlement of my outstanding mortgage of €100k

they will then accept or reject your offer.

I intend to make them such an offer as soon as I can figure out how much I should offer. With a 25 year IO at ECB + 0.75 I will be offering them 30% max. More than that it is not worth my while

This thread is also around the same issue http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=183252


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Nov 2013)

cremeegg said:


> I intend to make them such an offer as soon as I can figure out how much I should offer. With a 25 year IO at ECB + 0.75 I will be offering them 30% max. More than that it is not worth my while



Interesting to see if you change your offer after you "figure out how much you should offer". 

I don't believe that they are accepting any offers at all. If they are, you would need to be offering around 90%. 

Brendan


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## TRS30 (14 Nov 2013)

cremeegg said:


> Hi TRS30
> 
> I have just seen this thread for the first time. I am in a similar position.
> 
> ...



Hi Cremeegg

How have you been talking to, BOS directly or Certus? Are you talking to them directly or through a third party? 

Be very interest to hear how you get on.


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