# Litter Fine



## Deelite (17 Sep 2009)

My niece has got a fine in post for throwing a cigarette butt out driver side window.  She's in bits about it as she can't for the life of her remember doing it.  Anyway she got the bank draft for the 150.00 fine but then re-read the date on the fine itself.  Anyway in the heel of the hunt she says she was in the area stated without a doubt on the 26th of that month but she knows she wasn't there on the 27th as is stated on the fine.  She put the appeal in the day she received the fine - what do you think her odds are of a successful appeal.


----------



## allthedoyles (17 Sep 2009)

I was caught for leaving an empty plastic bag at a recycling centre . It was all on cctv and they had my car reg . .

Maybe if you are not on cctv you may have some chance in an appeal .

However , it may be cheaper to pay the fine ,a learn from this experience .

Appeals can be expensive .


----------



## Deelite (17 Sep 2009)

From my understanding my niece said that if the appeal fails she still has to pay 150.00 within 21 days from date of appeal - so it's worth a chance for her.  

I cant understand why they fined you for leaving a bag at the recycling centre - when there are no litter bins around.


----------



## allthedoyles (17 Sep 2009)

Deelite said:


> I cant understand why they fined you for leaving a bag at the recycling centre - when there are no litter bins around.


 
You are right - there were no litter bins around . It was a corner of a supermarket parking area .

There were bottle bins , ( green - brown - white ) and an  allumium can bin .

I just left the small empty plastic bag on the ground beside the green bin.

Cost me € 125  -  last December . 

Anyway , if she  has the chance to appeal for free , give it a go. If she is not on cctv , and can truly prove you are innocent , she may have a chance of success


----------



## Deelite (17 Sep 2009)

When they told you they had you on cctv - did you take their word for it or did you ask to see the footage.   A friend of mine was rear ended by a car in an area where there's meant to be cctv - however when she asked for it from the local council - she was told that the footage had been deleted after two days.......


----------



## TwoWheels (17 Sep 2009)

allthedoyles said:


> I just left the small empty plastic bag on the ground beside the green bin.


 
What part of littering are you having trouble understanding ?


----------



## allthedoyles (17 Sep 2009)

TwoWheels said:


> What part of littering are you having trouble understanding ?


 
Am I complaining ? - I paid the bill and learned from this , as outlined above .

I am trying to explain to the op , about the pro's and con's of appealing , silly .


----------



## Deelite (17 Sep 2009)

allthedoyles said:


> Am I complaining ? - I paid the bill and learned from this , as outlined above .
> 
> I am trying to explain to the op , about the pro's and con's of appealing , silly .


 

Thank you very much for kindly replying I found your opinions very useful.


----------



## nuac (18 Sep 2009)

If Deelite's niece smokes while driving, and usually throws her butts out the window she should stop doing so.     Both dangerous practices.

she should check if the 27th is the date at the end of the notice i.e. the date the notice was issued.   The correct date may be in the body of the notice.

Even if the notice has the wrong date, and if she writes to the Council to clarify, they can issue a summons for the correct date within six months of the incident, assuming the litter wardens notes show the correct date.

Even if the notice of the fine has the wrong date, that is not a defence to any such summons.  The Council is under no obligation to issue such fine notices and can always issue a summons.   The maximum fine on conviction on a summons under Section 3 of the Litter Act 1997 is €3,000.

Therefore the posters niece might as well pay the €150, and cease smoking while driving, and stop chucking items out of her car window.


----------



## csirl (18 Sep 2009)

Agree with the above. If there is a mistake, it may possibly be a typo, on the summons and she points it out, they'll most likely re-issue with the correct date.


----------



## bigjoe_dub (18 Sep 2009)

in dublin if you see someone chucking a ciggie-butt out of a car window can you report this to someone (give the reg, car make) or does it have to be a litter warden seeing you do it?


----------



## SparkRite (18 Sep 2009)

Deelite said:


> My niece has got a fine in post for throwing a cigarette butt out driver side window. She's in bits about it as she can't for the life of her remember doing it.


 
Now at the risk of starting a heated debate, surely your niece is "innocent until proven guilty" ?

Ie.: The onus is on the complainent to prove that she did throw the butt out the window and not on your niece to prove that she did'nt.

What if she just says "No I did NOT do that" ?

Is there CCTV footage,photographic evidence or witnessES ?


----------



## Deelite (23 Sep 2009)

SparkRite said:


> Now at the risk of starting a heated debate, surely your niece is "innocent until proven guilty" ?
> 
> Ie.: The onus is on the complainent to prove that she did throw the butt out the window and not on your niece to prove that she did'nt.
> 
> ...


 
Apparently no CCTV footage just the "litter warden" - however I don't think he pulled her reg plate out of thin air to be honest.   I'll let you know how she gets on - she originally had to pay the fine within three weeks but now with the appeal she has bought herself an additional six weeks or so.


----------



## shesells (4 Oct 2009)

You can indeed. There's a city council number you phone with details..you may be required to attend court as a witness if you make a report...a friend of mine reports drivers throwing cigarette butts out regularly and he's never been called to court but has always been willing to go if required. Litter is never acceptable.

see [broken link removed]


----------



## nai (5 Oct 2009)

If she is willing to go to court and have her case heard in front of a judge then the Litter Warden will be obliged to be present and present their case with their evidence (which would be a sworn statement). Does your niece have the resolve to do that, given that she's in bits over the receipt of a fine in the first place ?

anyway - it doesn't even have to be the driver of the car who throws out the rubbish/butts etc.... the driver is responsible for all passengers behaviour.

as an aside - do a google search for rubbish being thrown out of car windows hitting bikers - i've been hit a couple of times by cigarette butts and once by a nice big greener. Heard on biker.ie about another guy getting a dirty diaper across his visor.

So I hope your neice goes to court and comes up against a nice judge who bikes/cycles at the weekend


----------



## Deelite (26 Oct 2009)

My niece got a letter last week from the Litter Department addressed to her - but when she opened the envelope the letter was for some girl in Meath.  She rang up the Council and explained that the letter wasn't for her and got speaking to some nice person on the other end who asked her to return the letter she received and that they would again look into her appeal.  Her appeal still got rejected.

So I guess sometimes when people say in court they didn't get the "letter" they are being totally honest.  

So she is going to pay the fine.


----------



## enoxy (26 Oct 2009)

allthedoyles said:


> I was caught for leaving an empty plastic bag at a recycling centre . It was all on cctv and they had my car reg . .
> /quote]
> 
> 
> ...


----------

