# PTSB will not show T&C of Warehouse mortgage.



## itsallwrong (27 Sep 2013)

Q - I have seen the paperwork for only one split mortgage and it said that  the money could be 
moved from the warehouse at the sole discretion of  the lender.

Q - New Beginning. "The contracts for split mortgages  are very one-sided. They are so much in favour of the 
banks that I  would regard them as draconian," he said.

I rang PTSB who offered  me a split mortgage.  
I have been given a moratorium offer for the next  6 months.  
This is a reduced payment schedule that will be the same as the warehouse payment.  
A kind of test to see if you can pay the pending offer.
So I rang asking for the T&C of the pending warehouse  offer.
They only send that out at the end of the 6 month option.

Why are they not showing you what is after the moratorium peroid?
The person in PTSB kept repeating the mantra of 'we only send that out after the moratorium period is finished'
I find this very suspicious.
Do any members have a PTSB warehouse mortgage?
Can they upload the T&C?

While a warehouse option is a lifeline for many, I get the feeling of
'dying men clutch at straws' for many borrowers.

Is  this a ploy to reduce arrears figures and then the supposed 'out of the  woods' customer is back 
at the mercy of the banks in a few years time.?
The warehoused portion is not going to stay at 0% for the duration of  the mortgage.  
I would not hold much hope for it staying at 0% for any  length of time.  Then again I don't know that.
I have not seen the contract!!!

There  is a blanket clause in all mortgage contracts that allows the bank to  raise the rate 
whenever they deem it necessary, regardless of the ECB  rate.  The power is still firmly one side of the fence.


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## Gerry Canning (27 Sep 2013)

Have seen ptsb split mortgage. What I read the 6 month to be is that pay the split for 6 months then keep paying split amount . It means the Warehoused amount STAYS at 0% for the term of the split mortgage.
From a pragmatic view; take it from ptsb (does not leave YOU worse off) After 6 months I would think you will STAY on split mortgage amount and the warehoused element will always stay @ 0%.

You are RIGHT not to trust them , and you may be right to be sceptical of their motives, BOTTOM LINE though it has the makings of a good deal.

When you have it bedded down after the 6 months , I suggest you review the Insuance they are charging you, You will probably find you are paying FAR to much.


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## Mrs Vimes (27 Sep 2013)

itsallwrong said:


> Why are they not showing you what is after the moratorium peroid?
> The person in PTSB kept repeating the mantra of 'we only send that out after the moratorium period is finished'
> I find this very suspicious.



I suspect they haven't written the t&c yet?

Any reduction in interest rate (ie 0% on a portion) for any length of time is a help - may not help long term, but I don't see how you would be any worse off after the 6 months?


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## itsallwrong (28 Sep 2013)

Q - I suspect they haven't written the t&c yet?

They are written for sure.  People have been given the options.
The exact figures which are unique to each mortgage are irrelevant.
The new contract T&C would pretty much be the same for everyone.

I find it very odd that they are not willing to show the T&C before the
signup offer.


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## commonsense (28 Sep 2013)

itsallwrong said:


> Q - I suspect they haven't written the t&c yet?
> 
> They are written for sure.  People have been given the options.
> The exact figures which are unique to each mortgage are irrelevant.
> ...



It could be that people may not like the T&C's  and may turn it down citing lack of affordability? 

They seem to be testing the affordability first before making the offer formally.


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## itsallwrong (28 Sep 2013)

They know you can or cannot afford the offer. They work it out.
If you cannot afford the split offer, they don't do the test offer - they will just
tell you to sell up, if it's worth their while (no neg.eq.)

q - It could be that people may not like the T&C's and may turn it down citing lack of affordability?
Contradictory.  The offer makes your payment smaller.
Liking the T&C is not a choice people being offered a split mortgage have.
You take our offer or clear your arrears quickly.
Otherwise we deem your mortgage unsustainable and start the process to boot you out of your house.


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## commonsense (28 Sep 2013)

itsallwrong said:


> They know you can or cannot afford the offer.  They work it out.
> If you cannot afford the split offer, they don't do the test offer - they will just
> tell you to sell up, if it's worth their while (no neg.eq.)



Yes but even if they know and then they set the test for 6 months, you may not like the T&C's when they're presented to you and if you refuse the offer then they could justifiably say - "we've tried every solution with this person and they have refused" - then they force the sale.


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## itsallwrong (28 Sep 2013)

I prefer...
'we've tried every fair and balanced solution ..'

To revert to the first concern I made.
"The contracts for split mortgages are very one-sided. They are so much in favour of the 
banks that I would regard them as draconian." 

Hardly sounds like an amicable agreement being offered.
Power is still one side of the fence.


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## commonsense (28 Sep 2013)

itsallwrong said:


> I prefer...
> 'we've tried every fair and balanced solution ..'
> 
> To revert to the first concern I made.
> ...



Yes but what's fair and balanced to you and what's fair and balanced to the banks are possibly poles apart. 

The power will always lie with the banks - I doubt that will change.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Sep 2013)

Hi itsallwrong

1) ptsb is under no obligation to offer you any variation to your contract.  
2) You are not signing up for anything for the next 6 months, other than a reduced repayment. 
3) As you have a SVR mortgage, the terms of the split mortgage will be advantageous to you - they can only be an improvement on your present position. 
4) So sign up to this 6 month agreement. 

*If you are considering opting for insolvency, it would be different 
*5) If you were considering going for a PIA, then you might consider it worthwhile, going for it now, rather than waiting 6 months.  But I don't understand that to be the case. 

6) I thought I had uploaded the terms and conditions of the ptsb split mortgage on askboutmoney. I have certainly read them, and they are fine. To describe them as "draconian" is nonsense.  

7) I raised the issue of the Bank of Ireland doing what you are describing in this post. 

It looks as if ptsb have changed their policy on this. 

Brendan


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## Gerry Canning (30 Sep 2013)

Had an interesting conversation with Senior man in Ptsb. 
He thought that Ptsb were using the 6 mths for a few reasons.
1. to test customers resolve ,particularly were there is large neg equity.
2. to test customers affordability , as many customers are close to insolvent.
3. If customers don,t pay then Ptsb can then rightly move to legal etc.

Her bottom line is that Split Mortgages are NOW being done in a sensible/fair manner and if atall possible customers should take them.

I am not a Bank Fan but seems fair.

3.


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## Cantalia (18 Oct 2013)

Brendan, I think this should be a separate thread but can I ask does anyone know when do the banks, AIB in particular, have to report back to the government about their progress in resolving the mortgage debt issue. What is the percentage of distressed loans they are to have dealt with by December? Is it December? I know they were before a parliamentary committee over the summer but we were one of the distressed who were "dealt with" but actually we were just left in the same position for another six months. I am just trying to get an idea of what pressure they are under? When do they have to go before the parliament again to answer for themselves.? Thank you.


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