# Misled over Fixed Term Contract - Found another job now notice period is an issue



## JP1234 (11 Dec 2006)

Basically, when I was offered the job in June it was a fixed term contract for 6 months. I queried it at the time but was reassured that everyone is initially offered 6 months "probationary" contract which would be assessed near the end.  2 Weeks ago I had my 5 month performance review which went well and I was told that my contract was being extended for 3 months (again, told this was normal procedure) this was even written on my review notes signed by myself and my manager.  After asking several times when I will get an official extension letter I was told today that as someone is coming back from maternity leave earlier than expected ( coincidentally the week my original contract ends) my services are now longer required as of the date my original probation ends.   The person who was actually covering the maternity cover was offered a permenant position some time ago and without telling me they had slotted me in as maternity leave cover person and I think it has just worked out lucky for them that my contract was ending the same week. 

I know that as my contract does state FIXED TERM they can probably get away with no extending it for no reason but would a co-signed document stating my contract was being extended hold any weight if I was to take this further?   I would never have left my old permenant job for a _definitely not a chance of extension _maternity leave cover!  I also know that people who are covering maternity leave have this clearly stated in their job offer/contracts, including the name of the person they are covering for so there can be no claim that I misunderstood what was being offered to me.

Second question, despite wanting to walk out there and then today I thought it best to stay so my reference does not say I walked out, only to be told that the company has a policy of not giving references! I thought they were legally obliged to as not doing so could affect my future employment options but I can't seem to find anything which confirms this. 

The best I have been offered is to apply for a position on another department ( which has an average in the job time of 4 months before staff leave!) and my manager would "put in a good word" for me but right now I feel it might be better to see out until christmas then tell them I am not returning and put it down to a learning experience!


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## diarmuidc (12 Dec 2006)

*Re: Misled over Fixed Term Contract - is there any comeback?*



JP1234 said:


> The best I have been offered is to apply for a position on another department ( which has an average in the job time of 4 months before staff leave!) and my manager would "put in a good word" for me but right now I feel it might be better to see out until christmas then tell them I am not returning and put it down to a learning experience!



Do you really want to work for this company considering the staff turnover and how they have treated you?

Never leave anything as an assumption when dealing with a company. It's either in writing or nothing.


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## JP1234 (12 Dec 2006)

*Re: Misled over Fixed Term Contract - is there any comeback?*



diarmuidc said:


> Do you really want to work for this company considering the staff turnover and how they have treated you?
> 
> Never leave anything as an assumption when dealing with a company. It's either in writing or nothing.




Not really to be honest but the prospect of being out of work immediately after christmas doesn't exactly appeal either.

I am hoping that as I have it written and signed on my review notes that my probation was being extended for 3 months I might be able to hold them to that while I keep looking for something else.


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## shipibo (12 Dec 2006)

*Re: Misled over Fixed Term Contract - is there any comeback?*

Does contract state the 6 months is probationary ?? , what are in your terms and conditions .....  , even so, the probation period has elapsed, and they have let you go.

They have treated you poorly, but this is systematic in Ireland 2006.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Dec 2006)

*Re: Misled over Fixed Term Contract - is there any comeback?*

A lot of companies have a policy of not giving references. 

There are onerous legal requirements _if _you give a reference e.g. you can by sued for defamation. If you give a good reference to someone who was not good, the new employer may have a case against you. 

The best policy from an employer's point of view is to give no reference or else to give a purely factual one to say that "John was employed by us from Jan 2003 to June 2006 as a lorry driver. He left of his own accord". 

Good employees suffer from this, but I think that it is the correct policy from an employer's point of view.

Brendan


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## JP1234 (12 Dec 2006)

*Re: Misled over Fixed Term Contract - is there any comeback?*

It was a fixed term contract, which I was told was normal/everyone gets them to  start with etc.

I have managed to piece together what has happened, I should have been employed to cover maternity leave for a specific person but I was given the wrong contract. No-one noticed then due to  a management oversight they  went on to employ someone else on the mat leave contract I was supposed to have. As a result of a different maternity leave staff member deciding to come back earlier than expected the department has one too many staff and as my contract is due to end the same time she returns the department management have been very very lucky that they don't have to go to higher powers to explain why they are over staff budget.  

I am quite happy to have a fairly neutral reference, just confirming that I did work there and why I left. The company is well known locally for having a high staff turnover and for being a fairly rubbish employer, I will just have to move on and forget about it.

Thanks for the replies


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## JP1234 (1 Jul 2007)

Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread but my new problem with same company kind of relates to the above.

  After all my other problems I sent my cv round to various companies and this has finally paid off, on Friday I was contacted following an interview and offered a great new job with a company it is notoriously hard to get into ( good employers who’s staff seldom leave),  much better pay and conditions. I accepted immediately and informed my manager verbally and in writing I was giving a weeks notice. While expressing some disappointment she accepted this from me agreeing a week was all I have to give.   (The new job starts on July 16th and I want to have a week off in between jobs.)

  Half an hour later she took me aside and informed me that I had to give a months notice as my probationary contract was signed off by my previous manager so the week doesn’t apply. I explained to her (again) that my probationary was never signed off, that it was extended until April then this extension was withdrawn shortly after due to the problems stated above. I also reminded her that between 7th January and 1st February this year I worked without any kind of contract until my new one came into effect and that my new one was again a “temporary” contract ending on 1st August,  I asked her why, if my probation was over was I only given a temporary contract ( the other staff who started on the same day were given permanent at the end of their first 6 months) – she couldn’t answer. My argument is that if my probation was up I should have been let go or given a permanent contract, instead I was re-employed as a new starter in effect. The acceptance letter I signed and accompanying letter make no reference to notice periods.  According to  the Siptu website this is the situation regarding fixed term contracts:

*What About Fixed-Term Or Fixed Purpose Contracts?*

_   The Acts are largely silent on these matters. Given that a fixed-purpose contract may be of indefinite length, then notice should reasonably apply. A fixed-term contract arguably has a notice date built in. The Employment Appeals Tribunal (EAT) has, however, generally taken the view that even fixed-term contracts should be terminated by the employer and/or employee giving the appropriate statutory notice._


  The new job start date is immoveable, the person I am replacing is leaving the first week of August and I have to be trained.  Fortunately the company I am going to do not want a reference ( they apparently know what a bad company  my current employer is).

  My concerns/questions are
  -should I tell my new employer what the situation is upfront, I don’t want them to think I am the sort of person who walks away from a job ( I was in my 2 previous jobs for 5  and 11 years and left both on good terms and for very good reasons!) and I would hate them to find out what happened from someone else and think the worse of me.
  -The worse thing that could happen I imagine is they attempt to sue me for breach of contract, I know they have threatened people with this before but  I don’t know what the outcome was, should I be worried? If they did, what could happen? ( I am doing a very basic, barely above minimum wage admin job, nothing specialized) 
  -They might delay sending my P45, will my new employers be able to work out my correct tax allowance from a statement of allowances I have from the Revenue?

  Any help/comments much appreciated.


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## shesells (1 Jul 2007)

From what you've pasted it says that statutory notice is acceptable - so one week is all you have to give.

Check out www.entemp.ie for more info on statutory notice but as far as I can see you have every right to leave having given as much notice as you are legally obliged to.


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## gordongekko (1 Jul 2007)

go into work on Monday tell your boss to go **** herself and never darken your door again and walk out. it sounds like they have it coming.


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## Stifster (1 Jul 2007)

gordongekko said:


> go into work on Monday tell your boss to go **** herself and never darken your door again and walk out. it sounds like they have it coming.


 
There's damn all you can do to keep someone in a job if they want to leave. The employee certainly has the upper hand in that instance.


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## A_b (1 Jul 2007)

JP1234 said:


> My concerns/questions are
> -should I tell my new employer what the situation is upfront, I don’t want them to think I am the sort of person who walks away from a job ( I was in my 2 previous jobs for 5  and 11 years and left both on good terms and for very good reasons!) and I would hate them to find out what happened from someone else and think the worse of me.
> -The worse thing that could happen I imagine is they attempt to sue me for breach of contract, I know they have threatened people with this before but  I don’t know what the outcome was, should I be worried? If they did, what could happen? ( I am doing a very basic, barely above minimum wage admin job, nothing specialized)
> -They might delay sending my P45, will my new employers be able to work out my correct tax allowance from a statement of allowances I have from the Revenue?


I wouldn't tell my current employer about my new situation. They have treated you poorly all along and you do not owe them anything especially if they are renowed for being such bad employers. They would not go to the time and effort to sue you for breach of contract. As far as I know if you got a new contract, you are well within your right to give 1 weeks notice. Do not give in and work the extra week that you were going to take off, as you will just start your new job stressed!

As for your p45, I know someone who had a problem with getting theirs too and they simply rang the tax office with their new employers tax number and they sorted it out from there.


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## JP1234 (1 Jul 2007)

Thanks.    I have probably been fretting for no reason. I know that they can't physically drag me in and make me work, I am just a bit worried about if they can do anything legally against me and in the long term harm my future job prospects.  I have the whole history of all the messing around I have been put through written out but am not going to say anything when I go in tomorrow until they do and I intend to stand my ground. I definitely won't give them the extra week either - just keep my head down and stick it out until Friday.


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## gordongekko (2 Jul 2007)

on the safe ground just go to your doctor and tell her your stressed out and get a cert for a few weeks and then your are sorted. They have treated you terrible and you should just leave on your terms and not theirs, make monday your last day either way. Have a few days holidays, you deserve it for all the rubbish you have had to put up with.


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## RainyDay (2 Jul 2007)

gordongekko said:


> on the safe ground just go to your doctor and tell her your stressed out and get a cert for a few weeks and then your are sorted. They have treated you terrible and you should just leave on your terms and not theirs, make monday your last day either way. Have a few days holidays, you deserve it for all the rubbish you have had to put up with.


Bad advice. If you start work with your new employer at a time when your doctor has certified you as sick and not yet certified you as fit to return, you are asking for trouble.

I'd tell your current employer as little as possible, given the way they have messed you around. You don't owe them anything more than a week's notice.


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## Fajita (3 Jul 2007)

The minimum notice period required under Irish law is 1 week for employees who have worked for the company for less than 2 years. The only exception to this is if you have counter-signed a contract stating a longer period. 

That company has treated you really badly and you are well shot of them! Unfortunately the Unfair Dismissals legislation only kicks in if you have 1 year's service though, so I guess you need to just need to think of it as a learning experience.


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## Purple (3 Jul 2007)

RainyDay said:


> Bad advice. If you start work with your new employer at a time when your doctor has certified you as sick and not yet certified you as fit to return, you are asking for trouble.
> 
> I'd tell your current employer as little as possible, given the way they have messed you around. You don't owe them anything more than a week's notice.


Good advice, take it.


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## JP1234 (6 Jul 2007)

Purple said:


> Good advice, take it.



I did. Just about. They made it very difficult for me, constantly reminding me that I was breaching my contract. In the end I told them to sue me...and look forward to receiving their solicitor's letter.  Most of the management refused to even look at me all week and in a supreme act of childishness the MD had a hissy fit about us bringing in a few cakes and sweets for my last day....my leaving presentation was a rushed affair while he was not around...I am just glad the last 12 months are behind me


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