# Opinions on gaming and children



## Susie2017 (7 Jan 2018)

Just looking for opinions on buying either an x box or other gaming machine for young children. I have read that some children have developed gaming addiction which results in them spending hours on these machines, night after night, full weekends, Christmas holidays to the exclusion of all other activities including mealtimes, conversations with family members, hobbies etc.  I have spoken to parents who won't buy them, others who restrict access with strict time limitations and others who say well at least they know where their kids are and that they they know the passwords etc. Just wondering what people's thoughts on here are. My instinct is to avoid them at all costs in the first place. I wouldn't dream of leaving my child at an amusement arcade in the evenings or weekends playing video games so just because it's under my roof in an upstairs bedroom doesn't make me feel anymore comfortable about it.


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## odyssey06 (8 Jan 2018)

Some of the games can be quite addictive... I think you do need to set time limits. I say that as someone who has forgotten to eat cos of games rather than as a parent!

Another thing I would be worried about is if they are playing online, will they only be playing with school friends etc or can some random guy start talking to them in game.

Another thing that has changed since my gaming day is in the old days you bought a game, it was relatively expensive but that was the extent of your outlay no matter how many times or how long you played it for. Now with online gaming the players are encouraged to stump up more credit so they have more players \ options in game, so it's like an arcade in that respect - constant revenue outlay. 

If they are into online gaming you might need to look at your broadband package also, gonna tie up a lot of bandwidth and data usage.


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## RedOnion (8 Jan 2018)

What age kids are you talking about?

Just to add to what @odyssey06 said, some of the games are extremely violent. I've seen parents spend ages to make the decision to buy a console, but then once they have it buy whatever games the kids want.

I don't think the bedroom is an appropriate place for a console in any event.


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## michaelm (8 Jan 2018)

The Wii is a good option for younger kids.  They are cheap as chips second-hand from the games shops and so are the best games.  You'd want to restrict use to weekends and also apply time limits.


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## Leo (8 Jan 2018)

Gaming addiction has just recently been classified as a recognised disorder by the WHO, though there are many dissenting voices.

Many modern games, particularly those that offer the ability to progress through add-on purchases, follow a model that intentionally engage the pleasure and reward centers of the brain. Couple that with the much more immersive experience offered by modern gaming platforms and you have all the ingredients for an addictive product. Some are more predisposed to this than others, and you may already know if your children are that way inclined. The gaming industry has been so successful in exploiting this area of psychology that other industries are looking to leverage gamification in their products or services.

That said, in the right environment with the right controls in place, there is no harm in it. Gaming is such a large part of childhood now that banning it outright is likely to be counterproductive. Exposure to a potentially addictive activity and learning to manage this could even be very beneficial.


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## Ceist Beag (8 Jan 2018)

As others have suggested, nothing wrong with gaming in itself so long as you know/monitor what games they're playing and set time limits. Weekend only is what we do (apart from holiday season) and only for a couple of hours at the weekend. Also, they play in the living room where we can see them, I'm with RedOnion in that I don't think the bedroom is an appropriate place for a games console. Online gaming isn't something we've had to deal with yet so I'd be interested to hear views on how to manage this.


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## cremeegg (8 Jan 2018)

I have 3 sons who are fairly heavily into the xbox. So a bit of a thing with me.



Susie2017 said:


> Just looking for opinions on buying either an x box or other gaming machine for young children.



How young is young. Unless you are a very committed opponent of the xbox it will become a big thing in your house. No harm to delay as long as possible. As said above a Wii is a very different machine and a good alternative for as long as the kids will accept that.



Susie2017 said:


> I have read that some children have developed gaming addiction which results in them spending hours on these machines, night after night, full weekends, Christmas holidays to the exclusion of all other activities including mealtimes, conversations with family members, hobbies etc.



If you get an xbox your kids will spend more time on it than you consider reasonable. In my opinion to call it an addiction is silly. Its not heroin.




Susie2017 said:


> I have spoken to parents who won't buy them,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Niall56 (8 Jan 2018)

This came up a lot at Christmas. I've a 5 year old relative with a hand-held console who was quite infatuated with it. His parents restrict the use of it but 5 seems so young. On the other hand, I've a friend with a 7 year old who absolutely forbids the use of gaming consoles.  I have to say I lean towards his point of view. I know older kids- 10 or 1 - who despite their parents' best intentions, manage to play GTA or Call of Duty - both, I think, are over 18. I'm not so old that I don't remember how addictive GTA was for me in my twenties. What effect does it have on children?


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## Thirsty (8 Jan 2018)

Simple solution - don't have them in the house.

Unlike education, clothing, food, love, support, dentist visits etc., - your children will not come to any harm without them.


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## Purple (8 Jan 2018)

Limit the time they can use it (us it as a reward for doing chores, study etc.).
Don't have it in a bedroom.
Control the games they are allowed to play (an 18's game is for adults)
Be really careful about internet access while playing. I don't allow this for younger kids.


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## Purple (8 Jan 2018)

Thirsty said:


> Simple solution - don't have them in the house.
> 
> Unlike education, clothing, food, love, support, dentist visits etc., - your children will not come to any harm without them.


Same applied to TV, Sweets, most toys etc.


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## Thirsty (8 Jan 2018)

> Same applied to TV, Sweets, most toys etc.


Yep!


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## Purple (8 Jan 2018)

Thirsty said:


> Yep!


Jasus, yez're hard on dem kids!


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## Thirsty (8 Jan 2018)

The worst complaint I ever heard about Lego was how painful it is if you step on it with your bare feet.

Never heard warnings about addiction to Roller Skates.  

I've never seen a child screaming and crying for strawberries in the supermarket.

No concerns about exposure to inappropriate language or criminal behaviour when playing Monopoly (though there was that time the banker become suddenly rich....).

In truth we make these rods for our own backs.


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## Purple (8 Jan 2018)

Thirsty said:


> The worst complaint I ever heard about Lego was how painful it is if you step on it with your bare feet.


 Not to be treated lightly! The dog can also eat them (not as dangerous as the dog eating the tiles from scrabble; my dog did that and the vet said her next crap could spell disaster!)



Thirsty said:


> Never heard warnings about addiction to Roller Skates.


 Sure you could die from a fall then rollerskating!



Thirsty said:


> I've never seen a child screaming and crying for strawberries in the supermarket.


My son (then 3 years old) once cried because we didn't have any olives. That's the result of exposing him to nice food from a young age.



Thirsty said:


> No concerns about exposure to inappropriate language or criminal behaviour when playing Monopoly (though there was that time the banker become suddenly rich....).


 Ye'd want to hear us playing monopoly. 



Thirsty said:


> In truth we make these rods for our own backs.


 Yes, yes we do.


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## RedOnion (8 Jan 2018)

Purple said:


> not as dangerous as the dog eating the tiles from scrabble; my dog did that and the vet said her next crap could spell disaster!


Brilliant!


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## mathepac (8 Jan 2018)

cremeegg said:


> In my opinion to call it an addiction is silly. Its not heroin.


And there is the danger, lay people don't know enough to hold informed opinions in this specialised, medical area. 

Like addictions to gambling, shopping and sex, for example, the behaviour itself, the planning, hiding, manipulation of others, etc are the addiction, and for someone with a predisposition, they *are* the heroin or the substance of choice. The "behavioural" addictions are sometimes referred to as the hidden ones as there is no visible substance involved and no visible intoxication of the sufferer.

Compulsive gaming, home-based or internet-based is closely related to compulsive gambling, to the extent that compulsive gamblers in recovery are asked to avoid any activity (or substance) that may cause relapse or be used as a replacement maladaptive behaviour. Gaming is one such activity.

This is a highly complex medical subject and a very sensitive area could I ask that the topic be closed to further discussion.

Consult the DSM IV-TR, DSM 5, WHO sites, etc. This one is the *ICD-10*, the international classification of diseases for more information. ICD-11, currently under development.


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## cremeegg (8 Jan 2018)

Mathepac, I am sorry if this is an area that has impacted you, but you cannot just close your ears and say "doctors, doctors, doctors".

See here for a view of the ICD and its attitude to a mental health issue that is somewhat better understood than gaming "addiction"  https://www.theguardian.com/society...depression-wrong-johann-hari-lost-connections

As a parent of game devoted kids, I repeat *my opinion* that to call excessive gaming addiction is silly. I will go further and say that it can be an effort to pass responsibility that should belong to a parent over to a medical treatment.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Jan 2018)

Re. addiction and the use of the term:

*Apple must fight toxic iPhone addiction among children, urge two large investors with $2 billion in shares*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-urge-action-curb-child-gadget-addiction.html


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## Susie2017 (8 Jan 2018)

Many thanks folks for all the comments. I disagree with only one. I believe there is plenty of evidence that gaming is addictive. It affects the same receptors (dopamine related) in the brain that heroin and other addictive drugs such as alcohol release. It absolutely is habit forming. This is apart from the other hazards of who they are talking to online which is also a worry.  There are many horrific stories out there of neglect/death of children who's parents who are addicted to games and who didnt look after their children's nutrition or safety in order to satisfy their addiction. There are also many stories of young adults who have taken their own lives due to gaming issues.  There are clear links to reduction in academic performance, reduced attention at school, increased likelihood of depression, anxiety and irregular/ disrupted sleep patterns. They are also a link to increased likelihood of addictive behaviour in other areas eg gambling in adulthood. I know of one 18 year old who punched a hole in his bedroom wall at 3 am when he missed out on the next level of a game. He also subsequently physically attacked his mother when she tried to remove the machine from him. Im wondering if there are many parents out there who specifically have refused to buy consoles out right. It seems like most parents give into peer pressure nowadays and the manufacturers win in the end but at what cost ? Im personally leaning towards a blanket ban. My kids are preschool right now but I can see this coming down the tracks.


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## RedOnion (8 Jan 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> My kids are preschool right now but I can see this coming down the tracks.


You'll have lots to worry about between now and when they're old enough for games consoles!


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## Susie2017 (8 Jan 2018)

Like what Red onion ? . By the way cremegg that's a great article from the Guardian. Thanks for posting it. Couldn't agree more with it. Anti depressants are not the answer yet we use them so much. Drug companies making a fortune. Psychiatrists will get richer.  Still think gaming is addictive though....don't fancy the hassle with these machines.


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## cremeegg (8 Jan 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> There are many horrific stories out there of neglect/death of children who's parents who are addicted to games and who didnt look after their children's nutrition or safety in order to satisfy their addiction.



if this is your concern, then perhaps you are right to avoid the Xbox


Susie2017 said:


> I know of one 18 year old who punched a hole in his bedroom wall at 3 am when he missed out on the next level of a game. He also subsequently physically attacked his mother when she tried to remove the machine from him..



18year olds can behave like this for many reasons. I would suggest that the relationship had issues beyond gaming. 



Susie2017 said:


> My kids are preschool right now but I can see this coming down the tracks.



I see


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## Thirsty (8 Jan 2018)

> Im personally leaning towards a blanket ban


I'd agree, just don't buy them.  Like drink or fast food, you can't stop them from getting it elsewhere, but you don't have to supply it.


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## mathepac (9 Jan 2018)

cremeegg said:


> Mathepac, I am sorry if this is an area that has impacted you, but you cannot just close your ears and say "doctors, doctors, doctors".


There you go again, making invalid assumptions based on zero evidence or insight. The issue under discussion has had no direct impact on me, my children, or grandchildren or others in my extended family. I have however seen at first how gaming addiction has devastated adolescents and their families. The only one closing their ears and disputing the dangers of gaming for young minds seems to be you.

The ICD-10 and DSM are used extensively by medics in Ireland, the HSE and the WHO for disease diagnosis, classification and reporting and for treatment plan formulation. This has been the case for many years.


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## AlbacoreA (9 Jan 2018)

I would avoid consoles as long as you can.


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## RedOnion (9 Jan 2018)

I didn't mean that there are things you should be worrying about, but more this shouldn't be on the list! My own children are pre-school, and games consoles haven't even crossed my mind. At a push I might consider a Wii for family events when they're 9, but an actual console is for when they're in 2nd level.

Whatever you decide, it's important that both parents agree on. I've seen friends where dad uses the kids as an excuse to okay FIFA all the time.

By the way, I'm in my mid 30's, and I grew up without a TV. Best decision my parents ever made. Don't but into the whole idea that your kids will be bullied if you don't have a console. Kids can be assholes, and I was bullied for several reasons, but never because we didn't have a TV.


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## Ceist Beag (9 Jan 2018)

Personally I'm much more in favour of allowing access, controlling same and educating the kids along the way, rather than an outright ban. As I said already, we limit the time spent on consoles (or devices) but we also make a point of highlighting poor behaviour when we witness it (usually when we're trying to get them to turn off the consoles/devices!). I absolutely agree that children do display signs of addiction with these things but personally I think it's better to make them aware of this, educate them how it is not something we or they should allow to become a problem and hopefully some of that sinks in and they get a better understanding of the signs themselves. I think an outright ban is too harsh and suggests that you don't think you can manage the situation but as a parent you should always be in charge and your kids should know this. Of course there will be rows along the way and there are times I want to throw the console out the window too! 
My next concern is how to manage online gaming, which as I said isn't an issue for us yet, but I'd like to be prepared for it if/when it does come along so that we can manage it.
FWIW to the OP, as your kids are still in pre-school I think there is plenty of time to think about this yet. In our case the children were around 7 or 8 I think before we introduced a console (and as others have said, we don't allow any violent games, only things like Harry Potter or FIFA).


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## Purple (9 Jan 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> Like what Red onion ? . By the way cremegg that's a great article from the Guardian. Thanks for posting it. Couldn't agree more with it. Anti depressants are not the answer yet we use them so much. Drug companies making a fortune. Psychiatrists will get richer.  Still think gaming is addictive though....don't fancy the hassle with these machines.


Gaming can be addictive for some people but not for most. The same goes for alcohol and even soft drugs; for most people a joint is a gateway drug to pizza but for some it will destroy their life. 
I agree with RedOnion, you are over thinking this way before you have to deal with it. 
By the time your kids are getting to that age it will all be VR and we'll think back fondly about GTA and our young people playing games where the worst thing you could do was shoot a prostitute.


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## Thirsty (9 Jan 2018)

"Outright ban" - no one is suggesting that gaming be banned. To do that you'd have to prevent your children from going to a friends house where they had them. But like junk food, you don't have to buy it.


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## Leo (9 Jan 2018)

Purple said:


> Gaming can be addictive for some people but not for most.



That really is the nub of it, and I'd imagine most parents would know their children well enough by that age to have seen the warning signs.  There have been numerous documented gaming deaths, mostly in Asia and involving older adolescents or people in their 20's and even early 30's. Some of these people played for days on end without even stopping to eat! 



Purple said:


> ...we'll think back fondly about GTA and our young people playing games where the worst thing you could do was shoot a prostitute.



Or a cop, unfortunately in this case in real life!


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## Susie2017 (9 Jan 2018)

Yes. I might be overthinking it but it's quite a real problem at the moment for a relative of mine who is only 10 years old. It's used every day and night, full days at weekends to the extent that the young man doesn't even bother getting dressed. He is 10 and the excuse used by mammy is that he will cut back when he goes to secondary as he will have more homework to do. Mammy is too busy working or on Facebook herself so it appears to be a lifestyle choice. I just don't want the same for my kids.


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## Ceist Beag (10 Jan 2018)

The problem there is clearly with the mammy, not the child.


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## Delboy (10 Jan 2018)

The issue I have with all technology etc is that you can ration it from the eldest child but when they eventually get at it, the younger ones inevitably get it then too.

We never let our eldest watch TV until he he was 4 or thereabouts. But his sibling was 2 by then so thats the age he started watching. 
I fear the same for when we get a proper console. Right now we have an old gamecube with just Mariokart on it. It's fairly limited but the 2 eldest (7 and 5) are mad about it though they only get it for about 2 hours a week. But already I can see how it impacts their behaviour in terms of temper(when it's time to turn it off or if 1 of them loses to the other or their Daddy!), excitement, lack of patience etc. It's been quiet scary in that aspect.


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## Firefly (10 Jan 2018)

Thirsty said:


> I'd agree, just don't buy them.  Like drink or fast food, you can't stop them from getting it elsewhere, but you don't have to supply it.



That's what we do as well. No consoles in our house. 

We have 2 kids and I have no doubt if we had bought games consoles they would be spending too much time on them. Like any kids they fight, but most of the time they just play with each other, be it monopoly, fussball or reading or out in the garden knocking around with a ball.

It's lovely to hear them playing "properly" and doing the whole role acting thing.

OP, if you don't have one already, I would highly recommend a good trampoline. Best thing we ever bought.


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## Susie2017 (10 Jan 2018)

Thanks Firefly. Good to hear from a parent who has resisted the peer pressure. The mother im talking about says they all have them therefore its cruel for them not to have them they will feel 'left out'. I dont buy into this. Do you get any negative vibes from other parents about not having one ? I like the idea of a trampoline but would worry about injuries !


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## Firefly (10 Jan 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> Thanks Firefly. Good to hear from a parent who has resisted the peer pressure. The mother im talking about says they all have them therefore its cruel for them not to have them they will feel 'left out'. I dont buy into this.


As my own mother used to tell me, the most difficult word for a parent to tell their children is "no".  We had "the chat" with our kids regarding games consoles and tablets and to be fair to them they haven't asked for them again. 

It's funny as at around the same time our eldest began to read on her own. I have no doubt that if we had gotten a console she would not be the reader she is today.

When it comes to books and reading in our house we have a simple rule. The kids can ask for any book they like and it will be bought for them (not out of their pocket money) as long as they commit to reading it. 



Susie2017 said:


> Do you get any negative vibes from other parents about not having one ?


Not really, it's not something that I would bring up to be honest. 



Susie2017 said:


> I like the idea of a trampoline but would worry about injuries !



The only injuries we've had on our trampoline were at the very beginning - Archimede's principle! And when other kids come round and are not used to trampolines. They are great though. Our two bounce away for ages!


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## MangoJoe (18 Jan 2018)

I am staggered at the way this conversation has unfolded.... The one-sided nature of it and the hyperbolic hand-wringing over the immense threat to the sanctity of happy and content family life utterly bewilders me.

I would also contend that there is an element of 'fear of the unknown' at play here as some of the apprehension, invention, fear-mongering and dissension is so grievously and utterly misplaced.

I'm in my early 40s now but alongside a lifelong penchant for the voracious consumption of books, a solid academic past to honours degree level and a full and varied social and sporting life I have always enjoyed the pleasant diversion and pastime afforded by computer and console gaming.

I started in the 80's with 'Pong' hooked up to a TV then an Atari 2600, 8086 PC (led directly to a lifelong interest in computing and a solid profession that I enjoy), skip through numerous generations/iterations of PC to Nintendo 64, PS2, Xbox 360 and currently a PS4.

What this odd thread has neglected to consider are the myriad of beneficial aspects to gaming. This is fun, pleasant and engaging pastime that requires concentration, consideration, planning, coordination, problem-solving, analytical breakdown of complex situations, evaluation of approach, correcting poor endeavor, dexterity, memory, communications, teamwork (in the event of playing with friends) empathy, reasoning - I could go on and on.....

All of my children are avid gamers and they are also socially adept, well-balanced, pleasant, charming and ultimately, happy little individuals (with the odd bit of usual badness as we all do!!). I've never seen the rage, malevolent sleep-cycles, satanism or blood-letting that this daft thread bleakly forewarns and should I ever see a child of mine struggle with their own mental health for any reason I will hopefully have the perspective and judgement to get them the help they need rather than pointing accusingly in histrionics at an incidental games console.

By the tone of this breathless and mindlessly paranoid thread I know it has escaped some that there are charming well-constructed and imaginatively written games - Its not all mindless violent shooting and swinging axes at orcs.

By the way typically my children must complete their homework and do their few token household jobs before being allowed to play and then they are asked to finish up after an appropriate period of time has elapsed at which point they read, play a mutlitude of sports, build with lego or draw charming pictures etc.

Finally a sincere word of caution to parents out there - There are certain children who may at certain times struggle emotionally and socially - they may not make friends easily or get picked for the team, ever, school might be tough to get through at certain times etc. Very often these kids are drawn to alternative outlets such as computer games and mystical magical board games etc. In the same way as you wouldn't grab a book from their hands and throw it in the fire please be aware that banning and censoring console or computer games risks simply closing another door on these kids out of pure ignorance and lazy, misinformed apathy.

*** Oh & I meant to mention earlier - Have any of you anti-gaming pulpit-bashers ever sat and passed a pleasant hour playing an age-appropriate game with your child? It can be a lovely thing.


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## Leo (18 Jan 2018)

MangoJoe said:


> The one-sided nature of it and the hyperbolic hand-wringing over the immense threat to the sanctity of happy and content family life utterly bewilders me.



Perhaps you need to read the thread again? Up to now there was a lot more balance and a lot less hyperbole that you seem to be suggesting.  



MangoJoe said:


> By the tone of this breathless and mindlessly paranoid thread...



So, can you point at the posts you consider breathless and mindless? 



MangoJoe said:


> you anti-gaming pulpit-bashers



And who are the anti-gaming pulpit-bashers?


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## MangoJoe (18 Jan 2018)

Leo, I said "mindlessly paranoid" and I aimed that at the tone of the conversation as a whole and not at anyone in particular in an insulting way.

Come on please? If Mammy or Daddy goes into Smyths and buys little Johhny and Mary a games console they are going to turn into crazed, addicted, under-performing, wall-punching drones?

The tone of the thread was very one-sided on the whole 'gaming is evil' vein, I very strongly disagreed with this sentiment and expressed this view - Surely balanced discussion is to be encouraged & I'm sure others will be along to share their own views in the fullness of time.....


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## Leo (19 Jan 2018)

For it to be an observable tone, there should be multiple easy examples you could quote? Who has said gaming is evil?

No one suggested that simply buying a child a console would turn them into some kind of monster. While it has been pointed out that for some people, they can be addictive, the collective tone here from my reading or the thread is that with the right controls in place, they are no harm. 

We're all for balance, but accusing other posters of being mindlessly paranoid, anti-gaming pulpit-bashers does nothing to promote a useful discussion. Care to start again with a more moderately worded post?


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## mathepac (19 Jan 2018)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Re. addiction and the use of the term:
> 
> *Apple must fight toxic iPhone addiction among children, urge two large investors with $2 billion in shares*
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-urge-action-curb-child-gadget-addiction.html


A great example of Dail Mail-itis, where they magic the word "addiction" out of thin air although it doesn't occur once in the quotes they feature from the investors' letter. 

Typical of the Daily Mail, Oirish or otherwise, who were featuring fake news before the Duck's era. Although I don't think they feature a red-top, it's fair to say they're the original of the species.


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## PaddyBloggit (19 Jan 2018)

mathepac said:


> A great example of Dail Mail-itis, where they magic the word "addiction" out of thin air although it doesn't occur once in the quotes they feature from the investors' letter.
> 
> Typical of the Daily Mail, Oirish or otherwise, who were featuring fake news before the Duck's era. Although I don't think they feature a red-top, it's fair to say they're the original of the species.



The story on Harvard Business Review:

https://hbr.org/2018/01/why-an-activist-hedge-fund-cares-whether-apples-devices-are-bad-for-kids

"Overuse of iPhones by children and teenagers, the letter pointed out, has been linked to lack of attention in the classroom, difficulty in empathizing with others, depression, sleep deprivation, and a higher risk of suicide."

The old adage ... too much of a good thing comes to mind. Wanting too much of anything could be classed as addiction. 

Bottom line is that parents need to properly regulate access.


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## cian8 (19 Jan 2018)

Our 7 year old son requested a console from Christmas this year. We were worried that it would lead to arguments over how much he would be allowed to use it. 

We bought him a Nintendo Switch. So far so good. If you download the app then you can set very detailed time limits - different amounts of time on different days in particular.

We have it set up so that it is only available Fri, Sat and Sun. With a max of two hours per day. 

The fact that this is set up has avoided a lot (all) arguments. He gets on screen reminders to say how much time is remaining and so there is no crap with “just five more minutes”. Although the two hours is max so we ideally don’t want reached regularly. Also, if there is misbehavior during the week he loses privileges for that weekend (well after a warning or two). 

He has gotten Mario Odyssey, Mariokart and Minecraft. None of those could be considered violent or inappropriate. Mariokart is useful because at least my wife and I and our parents can play with our son for 15 mins without having to learn complex controls and gameplay. 

I think is a suitable console for his age. I know he would love an Xbox or PS4 but they can wait until he is a teenager!


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## mathepac (20 Jan 2018)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Wanting too much of anything could be classed as addiction.


Check any of the standard texts or the criteria in screening or diagnostic tools for addiction and not one of them mentions this as a sign or a symptom of addiction and again the article you link to on the HBR website makes no mention of addiction, so I find myself at a loss as to the point you're trying to make.

Apple doesn't make or sell gaming consoles, but like GOOGLE, Sony, DELL, HP, Lenovo, IBM and lots of others, they do make devices that can access the web for online gaming or gambling and you can buy games that run on their devices.

Just to be 100% clear, the problem is not the device, the activity or even the substance. The problem lies with certain individuals'  potential to become addicted to that activity or substance.


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## PaddyBloggit (20 Jan 2018)

mathepac said:


> so I find myself at a loss as to the point you're trying to make.



I'll stop there so ... 

or not ...



mathepac said:


> The problem lies with certain individuals' potential to become addicted to that activity or substance.



That is the point I'm trying to make ... inanimate objects in themselves are harmless. It's the operators who can't mange them end up addicted.

My line still stands .... parents are the ones who need to monitor/restrict access to any activity that a child could get addicted to.


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