# Irish Life suspends accepting new one-member Occupational Pension Scheme applications



## Dave Vanian (6 Jul 2022)

I got this from Irish Life today.  It will have an impact on small business owners and contractors operating through a limited company.  


*Important update on one-member company pensions*​Dear XXX

We wrote to you recently saying one-member schemes were still a valid choice for you and your clients.

However you will be aware of recent substantial developments affecting the area of pension provision for one member schemes across the industry. In light of these developments and, specifically, the more recent update in relation to the audited accounts requirement, we have considered the potential impact and decided to suspend accepting and issuing new one-member company pensions plans. We have made this decision to protect you and your clients from any adverse effects or unintended consequences while industry bodies work to understand the options available.

This decision does not impact top-ups or transfers into existing one-member schemes, nor does it impact Irish Life Corporate Business group company pensions.

We are actively engaging with industry and regulatory stakeholders and exploring all options to support you and your clients in the provision of suitable pension solutions.

We appreciate this is an uncertain time and not the desired outcome. We will be in regular contact with further updates.

If you have any questions in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact your account manager, regional sales manager or my colleagues Kenny Mellor and Marie Ann Reidy.

Regards,


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## Dave Vanian (7 Jul 2022)

Zurich Life and Aviva have made similar announcements.


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## DBL2018 (8 Jul 2022)

Any suggestions for alternative products ?


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## LDFerguson (8 Jul 2022)

DBL2018 said:


> Any suggestions for alternative products ?



If there are company contributions, a PRSA.  If not, a Personal Pension or a PRSA.  That said, the limitations on how much a company can put into a PRSA are far lower than an Occupational Pension Scheme.  But there are proposals to bring PRSAs into line with Occupational Schemes.  I'd be inclined to wait for further clarity as I know the pensions industry is working on this.


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## time to plan (13 Jul 2022)

DBL2018 said:


> Any suggestions for alternative products ?


Executive Pension? My musings from last year: https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/in-search-of-a-low-cost-executive-pension.222807/


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## LDFerguson (13 Jul 2022)

time to plan said:


> Executive Pension? My musings from last year: https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/in-search-of-a-low-cost-executive-pension.222807/



An Executive Pension is just another description for a one-member Occupational Pension Scheme.  They're not available at the moment, as they're the very type of scheme that has fallen foul of this change.


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## time to plan (14 Jul 2022)

LDFerguson said:


> An Executive Pension is just another description for a one-member Occupational Pension Scheme.  They're not available at the moment, as they're the very type of scheme that has fallen foul of this change.


Ah. I've obviously missed something.


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## Redder Than Red (18 Jul 2022)

I got badly affected by this too.  I had actually filled out all the paperwork in late June to start mine and was doing a lump sum of 40,000 from the company to kickstart it too as i have a LOT of missed time to make up for.
I heard back today from the pension crowd that this is all in limbo now and he’s waiting to hear back from the insurance company about what happens next.
Does anyone know how long it could take for the insurance companies to come up with a workaround here or alternative of some sort where I could put large lump sum from the company account into a pension and then say a regular monthly amount.  I wanted to do this directly from limited company account into the pension to use idle money sitting there in the company account and finally get a pension running as I’m very late starting one.
Thanks.


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## GSheehy (19 Jul 2022)

Work within the funding / age related contribution levels (for now) on a PRSA. There are no exit charges on PRSAs so if a solution to the Executive Pension is found, you can set one up and transfer to that.

Who knows, Pension Authority may say PRSAs are where it's at and we're bringing contributions rules in line with what was available on Executive Pensions. There was 'free' Trusteeship available on Executive pensions and my thinking would be that that's not going to be the case with the introduction of additional new requirements.

Gerard

www.prsa.ie


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## LDFerguson (19 Jul 2022)

It's still possible to set up a Small Self-Administered Scheme (SSAS) for one person.  

Regards, 

Liam
www.FergA.com


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## Redder Than Red (19 Jul 2022)

Thanks to you both!  Much appreciated.
Just with the SSAS Liam, I asked the question this evening to the chap who was attempting to set up the executive pension for me and he said the same issue applies with an SSAS as it also has to follow the new guidelines so it would be too expensive etc.
All very frustrating.

@ Gerrard, is it possible to make lump sum payments from the business into a PRSA?  If there is a yearly limit then I haven’t put in any pension payments over the last number of years so is there any leeway given for that, i.e backdating the tax allowance on it?
My concern here really is getting 40,000 out of the limited company and into some sort of pension before the company’s tax year ends.


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## LDFerguson (20 Jul 2022)

Redder Than Red said:


> Just with the SSAS Liam, I asked the question this evening to the chap who was attempting to set up the executive pension for me and he said the same issue applies with an SSAS as it also has to follow the new guidelines so it would be too expensive etc.



I wonder does he actually arrange Small Self-Administered Schemes?  They used to be very expensive unless you had a big fund, but now they're comparable in cost to an insured scheme, which is why we're arranging more of them than we used to.  And I checked with one of our trustees only this week and they're still happy to set up new schemes.


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## Redder Than Red (21 Jul 2022)

LDFerguson said:


> I wonder does he actually arrange Small Self-Administered Schemes?  They used to be very expensive unless you had a big fund, but now they're comparable in cost to an insured scheme, which is why we're arranging more of them than we used to.  And I checked with one of our trustees only this week and they're still happy to set up new schemes.


Thanks for that!
His response was that he does not recommend them “as they need to follow IORP ii guidelines and so they are very expensive” so maybe he just doesn’t arrange any at all.
 I guess if there’s no breakthrough with the EPP situation soon then I could approach a different advisor and ask to set up the SSAS so, seeing as my chap appears to be wrong about them not being an option.
My only hesitance is that around 15 years ago I had an EPP with him with 32k in it that we closed (ceased paying into) and he was intending to combine those old funds into my new EPP scheme, im not sure if that becomes more awkward now if i take on a new pension advisor?
With this SSAS would i be able to throw in large (ish) lump sums like 40k direct from the business etc?  Bearing in mind I haven’t paid in any contributions to anything over the last number of years?


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## Steven Barrett (21 Jul 2022)

Redder Than Red said:


> Thanks for that!
> His response was that he does not recommend them “as they need to follow IORP ii guidelines and so they are very expensive” so maybe he just doesn’t arrange any at all.
> I guess if there’s no breakthrough with the EPP situation soon then I could approach a different advisor and ask to set up the SSAS so, seeing as my chap appears to be wrong about them not being an option.
> My only hesitance is that around 15 years ago I had an EPP with him with 32k in it that we closed (ceased paying into) and he was intending to combine those old funds into my new EPP scheme, im not sure if that becomes more awkward now if i take on a new pension advisor?
> With this SSAS would i be able to throw in large (ish) lump sums like 40k direct from the business etc?  Bearing in mind I haven’t paid in any contributions to anything over the last number of years?


Sounds like he only does insured products.

It is no problem in combining your old pensions with the self admin one without involving your advisor. The forms go directly to the insurance company anyway, so he is not required.

The self admin pension is designed more for lump sum payments anyway. They aren't designed for the monthly direct debit cases as everything is processed on an individual basis manually.

The Pensions Authority has really messed up in shutting down pensions for a large amount of people. Not a great advertisement for the body supposed to regulate the very pensions they have just shut down.


...I was talking to a consultant in one of the self administered companies and he said they are still offering self admin pensions...for the moment. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## LDFerguson (21 Jul 2022)

Redder Than Red said:


> With this SSAS would i be able to throw in large (ish) lump sums like 40k direct from the business etc? Bearing in mind I haven’t paid in any contributions to anything over the last number of years?



The limits on contributions are calculated taking your age, salary, years of service, normal retirement age and other pension funds into account, so without knowing all that I can't say for certain, but if you haven't paid anything into a pension for a few years then ... probably.  

Anyway, the limits for contributions to a self-administered scheme are the exact same limits as for insured schemes so if your €40,000 had been calculated to be allowed into an insured scheme, then it would also be allowed into a SSAS.


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## Mamamia22 (21 Jul 2022)

What about people who have an existing company / executive pension set up. Do you stick with it or change the structure ?


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## GSheehy (22 Jul 2022)

Redder Than Red said:


> My only hesitance is that around 15 years ago I had an EPP with him with 32k in it that we closed (ceased paying into) and he was intending to combine those old funds into my new EPP scheme, im not sure if that becomes more awkward now if i take on a new pension advisor?



Not sure what all providers are doing but some are continuing to accept new contributions and top-ups into all existing Executive Pension Plans. 

TBH, there is a lot of info that the current chap you're dealing with doesn't seem to have explored, based on what you've posted. 

I think you should contact @LDFerguson or @Steven Barrett as you do need help and some solid advice.  


Gerard

www.prsa.ie


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## Steven Barrett (22 Jul 2022)

Hi Gerard

Life companies continue to allow contributions and top ups to existing executive pensions. they have stopped taking any new cases on, most since 8 July. And I know one provider said that any pipeline business must be issued by 31 July or else they won't accept it. 

There has been very little news from the life companies about this since it happened. I am presuming there is a massive amount of lobbying going on at present and nothing is being said until a workable solution is found. I am very interested in seeing what they are going to do for the tens of thousands of existing executive policies that now require annual reports and audited accounts?

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## LDFerguson (22 Jul 2022)

Mamamia22 said:


> What about people who have an existing company / executive pension set up. Do you stick with it or change the structure ?



Existing schemes can continue.  However, you should ask your broker to make sure that your scheme and its trustees remain compliant with the new regulations.


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## Redder Than Red (24 Jul 2022)

edit- post deleted to create new thread to avoid hijacking this one.


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## Steven Barrett (25 Jul 2022)

ITC have closed their self administered pensions to new business. I am not aware of any company currently opening one person company paid pensions. (there could be a pensioner trustee that I don't use). 

Very short sighted from the govt and the Pensions Authority. Not only from my perspective but from the ability of people to save for their retirement. Of course, it doesn't impact on those who made these decisions with the DB pensions.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Redder Than Red (25 Jul 2022)

Sorry for the presumably daft question but are PRSA’s still an option?  For those of us needing a one person solution?


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## LDFerguson (25 Jul 2022)

Redder Than Red said:


> Sorry for the presumably daft question but are PRSA’s still an option?  For those of us needing a one person solution?



They are indeed still an option.  However, PRSAs have far lower scope for employer / company contributions than one-person occupational pension schemes.  The maximum contribution to a PRSA for a person in their 40s, for example is 25% of salary and that's contributions from both employer and employee.  For this purpose, salary is capped at €115,000 so if your salary is greater than this and you're in your 40s, maximum PRSA contribution is €28,750.


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## Savvy (25 Jul 2022)

<Created a new thread>


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## Savvy (25 Jul 2022)

<Created a new thread>


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