# Co-Habiting Couple. One Dies. Others Entitlements



## RedStix (7 Sep 2007)

Hi All

I don't know where to post this but i thought this would be the best place so bear with me.

A friend of mine passed away suddenly in hospital last week after going in to receive treatment for a minor illness. While in hospital, she suffered a stroke (unrelated to original illness), which unfortunately led to her death.

Her situation was that she had been co-habiting with her partner for over 28 years. In all senses they were like a married couple, but they never signed that piece of paper.

Now since she has passed, her partner has been left with a minefield of paperwork that he is trying to sort through, e.g. mortgage, loans, credit card debts etc. He has a lot of questions but no one can seem to answer them.

In relation to the mortgage. The mortgage company has advised him that he can put a stop to the standing order for mortgage payments until the mortgage protection policy clears the mortgage. Unfortunately due to the fact that the deceased had to have an autopsy/post mortom, he has been advised that it could take anywhere up to a year to get the death certificate due to the circumstances surrounding the death. The mortgage cannot be settled until the death cert is issued but the interest will still be accumulating on the o/s amount. Is there anyway to stop the interest accruing or will he just have to pay it anyway?

In relation to a loan that she took out in her own name, the banks have told him that he has to pay it, even though it are not in his name and even though he did not guarantee it. They are treating them as if they were married and although the payments came out of a joint a/c in both their names, the loan was ultimately in her name. Does he have to pay this?

Is he entitled to any benefits etc? I know he doesn't qualify for a widowers allowance but the problem is he needs to know if he is entitled to any benefits after paying taxes for the last 25 years. The reason being is that they both have two little girls that they foster. One they have had since she was 7 months old (shes now 2)and the other they have had since she was 3 (shes now 7). Because the deceased is no longer there to provide full time care to the foster kids, he has had to give up work to look after them. These kids are more than likely with him for the long haul and it would break his heart to see them go to another home as they are his kids. I know not in the literal sense but they call him dad and he views them as his children. If the kids got taken away from him, his whole world will fall apart as they are everything to him as he is to them.

So now money is dwindling, no sign of the death cert for approx 1 year, he can't work as he is looking after the kids, he has no benefits as they were not married... i'd really appreciate it if anyone could point me in the right direction as to how i can help him. He's completely lost and even after spending 3 hours with citizens information, they could not help him as his situation is a very unusual one. They advised him to go back to work but that would mean giving up the kids which he is not prepared to do. And as there is no money coming into the house (apart from childrens allowance), he's said he can't afford a solicitor and i feel so helpless.

Sorry for the long post but any feedback would be appreciated.

RedStix


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## ClubMan (7 Sep 2007)

RedStix said:


> Now since she has passed, her partner has been left with a minefield of paperwork that he is trying to sort through, e.g. mortgage, loans, credit card debts etc. He has a lot of questions but no one can seem to answer them.


He may need to get legal advice on some or all of the questions involved. (Sorry - typed this before I read the full post!).


> Is there anyway to stop the interest accruing or will he just have to pay it anyway?


 What does the lender say? 


> In relation to a loan that she took out in her own name, the banks have told him that he has to pay it, even though it are not in his name and even though he did not guarantee it.


 Do you mean another loan separate from the mortgage? This does not sound right and I don't believe that he should inherit this debt from what you've posted. However it may be that it must be cleared from the deceased partner's estate.


> Is he entitled to any benefits etc? I know he doesn't qualify for a widowers allowance but the problem is he needs to know if he is entitled to any benefits after paying taxes for the last 25 years. The reason being is that they both have two little girls that they foster. One they have had since she was 7 months old (shes now 2)and the other they have had since she was 3 (shes now 7). Because the deceased is no longer there to provide full time care to the foster kids, he has had to give up work to look after them. These kids are more than likely with him for the long haul and it would break his heart to see them go to another home as they are his kids. I know not in the literal sense but they call him dad and he views them as his children. If the kids got taken away from him, his whole world will fall apart as they are everything to him as he is to them.


 *One-Parent Family Payment* ? If there are no other payments available then perhaps charities like _Vincent de Paul _might be able to help?


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## gipimann (8 Sep 2007)

If the person has no income and can't work, then he should contact the local Community Welfare Officer (based in health centres) and check out entitlement to Supplementary Welfare Allowance.   This can provide a basic income, and may be able to help with the Mortgage until things are sorted with certificates, etc.

Is he getting a Foster Allowance for the children?   I would presume that there is or was involvement from Social Workers at the time of placement of the children, and they can advise on this payment.


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## pat127 (8 Sep 2007)

ClubMan said:


> *One-Parent Family Payment* ? If there are no other payments available then perhaps charities like _Vincent de Paul _might be able to help?



There doesn't seem to be any specific mention of foster children in the welfare documentation. I'd strongly suggest a call for information directly to:-

Social Welfare Services Office
Department of Social and Family Affairs
College Road
Sligo.
Telephone: LoCall 1890 500 500 (from within the Republic of Ireland)

Dublin (01) 704 3000

Sligo (071) 913 5200

Ask for the Dept which deals with the OPF payment.

The HSE as the agency responsible for fostering should be contacted as well.


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## z109 (8 Sep 2007)

RedStix said:


> Unfortunately due to the fact that the deceased had to have an autopsy/post mortom, he has been advised that it could take anywhere up to a year to get the death certificate due to the circumstances surrounding the death.



I presume the delay is due to the fact there has to be an inquest? In this case, the coroner can issue an interim certificate of death - see  (section 12):
"Prior to inquest (or whilst awaiting the postmortem report) the coroner’s office will provide an Interim Certificate of the Fact of Death which may be acceptable to banks, insurance companies and other institutions."

He should also be entitled to lone parent allowance.

The CHILD CARE (PLACEMENT OF CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE) REGULATIONS, 1995 also has a section:
The health board shall:
"2. Provide such additional financial or other assistance, including support services, as the health board considers necessary to enable the foster parents to take care of the child."

Is there a risk with contacting the health board with finances in a poor condition? I'm sure your friend is thinking this. I don't know the answer though. I presume like all goverment bodies, it depends on who you get. As has been suggested earlier, applying through the link social worker for the foster children may be the best bet.


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## pat127 (9 Sep 2007)

yoganmahew said:


> The CHILD CARE (PLACEMENT OF CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE) REGULATIONS, 1995 also has a section:
> The health board shall:
> "2. Provide such additional financial or other assistance, including support services, as the health board considers necessary to enable the foster parents to take care of the child."
> 
> Is there a risk with contacting the health board with finances in a poor condition? I'm sure your friend is thinking this. I don't know the answer though. I presume like all goverment bodies, it depends on who you get. As has been suggested earlier, applying through the link social worker for the foster children may be the best bet.



If the Social Worker is in regular contact, then he or she will find out anyway but maybe it might be better if the foster-parent makes the contact first? The hope then would be that an arrangement can be worked out so that he can continue to keep the children. OTOH the HSE has a duty of care towards the children and this could have an effect on the outcome (sorry to say this but it's better to be prepared).

Another possible source of information is the Irish Foster Care Association see www.ifca.ie/


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## z109 (9 Sep 2007)

I'm sorry to say aswell, that your friend could be facing a difficult time in terms of inheritance (particularly as it sounds like the deceased partner owned the property). As they are not married, I suspect the inheritance tax (if there was a will) will be at stranger's rates (basically a tax on everything). If there wasn't a will, I am not sure that he will inherit anything - but maybe the children are entitled to inherit?

In addition to contacting social services, it may be worth contacting MABS to see if they can provide some free accountancy advice (?)


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## Lauren (10 Sep 2007)

What a sad situation....RedStix sorry to hear of the death of your friend and the plight of her partner....I hope the crew here at AAM can help just a little bit....


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## RedStix (10 Sep 2007)

Hi All

Thanks for the replies so far. 



> I'm sorry to say aswell, that your friend could be facing a difficult time in terms of inheritance (particularly as it sounds like the deceased partner owned the property


 
No, the property was in both their names so thats no problem. Its just he cannot afford to make the mortgage payments as he is not working because he is looking after the children, and it could be anywhere up to a year before he gets the death cert and the mortgage cannot be cleared until the death cert is presented.



> it may be worth contacting MABS to see if they can provide some free accountancy advice


I've made an appointment for him to see MABS this week so hopefully they will be able to give some advice.



> If the Social Worker is in regular contact, then he or she will find out anyway but maybe it might be better if the foster-parent makes the contact first


The social workers know about his partner passing away (he contacted them last week) but they don't know about the financial situation.

Could someone like FLAC help him sort out some issues that he's not sure of?


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## pat127 (10 Sep 2007)

RedStix said:


> Could someone like FLAC help him sort out some issues that he's not sure of?



Yes, but only for aspects which are of a purely legal nature. Don't expect them to be knowledgeable about Social Welfare for example. The advice given about which orgs to contact, MABS, Irish Foster Care Association, Social Welfare should take him in the right direction.


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## Welfarite (10 Sep 2007)

AFAIK, HSE (not SW) pay a Foster Care Payment (means-tested). I think the social worker is the best person to point your friend in the right direction. After all, the circumstances under which the children were fostered have changed drastically and these are vulnerable children who need the professional help that social services can give them. He should be honest about his financial situation with them for the kids' sake.


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## Welfarite (10 Sep 2007)

found this link which may be of help re fostering situation: http://fosteringfirstireland.ie/20questions.php#17


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## Vanilla (10 Sep 2007)

In relation to the mortgage- as another poster pointed out you should tell your friend to obtain an interim certificate from the Coroners office- this can be obtained very quickly. With this he/she should be able to ask the bank to freeze the mortgage account. Do not accept no for an answer.

In relation to the loan- the loan is repayable as a debt in the deceased's estate, if there are no other assets then the bank cannot do anything about it. If there are assets and a net estate is in credit then it would have to be repaid from the other assets. However otherwise your friend has no personal responsibility for this loan ( other than as perhaps the net beneficiary of the estate).


Remember that if the house was in their joint names as joint tenants it does not form part of the estate therefore will not appear as an asset in the estate.


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## RedStix (10 Sep 2007)

> In relation to the loan- the loan is repayable as a debt in the deceased's estate, if there are no other assets then the bank cannot do anything about it. If there are assets and a net estate is in credit then it would have to be repaid from the other assets. However otherwise your friend has no personal responsibility for this loan ( other than as perhaps the net beneficiary of the estate).


 
I called the bank in relation to this earlier on today. They have told me that this loan must be paid by the next of kin. I explained that there is no estate and no will but they stand by their decision. I have checked and the loan was solely in her name, and was not signed by a guarantor. Does this sound right that her next of kin would have to continue the payments? 

(In case it makes a difference this bank is regulated by the FSA in the UK.)

ps: Thanks for all help and suggestions thusfar. You have all been a great help and have pointed me in the direction of some helpful reading material. Thank you.


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## Madangan (10 Sep 2007)

If the loan was in her sole name and no guarantee then the party that can be liable for this is her estate. If no money in the estate then the estate is insolvent and the bank does not get its money.

I assume the reason the bank is adopting this stance is because it was being paid from a joint a/c. Is there money in that a/c and if so  does it belong to your friend or the deceased or jointly.

If there is no money  in that a/c for the bank to attempt to seize then the onus is on the bank  to proof  that your friend has a liability not  the other way around. Otherwise how are they going to enforce the debt?

Which bank is it? Also the a/c from which it was being paid is it with the same bank?


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## RedStix (10 Sep 2007)

> Which bank is it? Also the a/c from which it was being paid is it with the same bank?


 
The bank is HFC Bank Ltd. The loan was a personal loan/credit agreement for goods that she bought through a third party. The third party organised the loan for her with HFC. The bank account with HFC was in her name and there was no money in the account. She used to transfer money from her joint a/c (with another bank) into the HFC bank a/c once a month to cover the D/D amount.


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## Nige (11 Sep 2007)

I would remind the bank too that her partner is not her next of kin.


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## terrysgirl33 (11 Sep 2007)

First of all I'm sorry for your friends loss.

As regards the loan, they are trying it on, they cannot get money from her partner (unless he is a guaranteur), and they couldn't do that even if he was next-of-kin.  The agreement they had was with her, and it comes out of her estate or nothing.  A similar issue was dealt with here: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=57074

Can I ask (since you are here and not your friend) why he gave up work?  Could he have taken parental leave or sick leave untill he felt ready to go back to work?  Were there any family members who would have stepped in to help take care of the children, or could he have arranged childminding?  I realise it's a terribly terribly stressfull time, but I don't see how he is going to manage with no income .

Again, I'm really really sorry he is going through this.


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## RedStix (11 Sep 2007)

> Can I ask (since you are here and not your friend) why he gave up work? Could he have taken parental leave or sick leave untill he felt ready to go back to work? Were there any family members who would have stepped in to help take care of the children, or could he have arranged childminding? I realise it's a terribly terribly stressfull time, but I don't see how he is going to manage with no income


 
Well he's on sick leave until the end of Sept but he has to make his choice then. He would love to be back working but his partner was a full time stay at home parent and invested a lot of time in the children and he wants to continue that on. He is getting fostering benefit every week for the two kids and presuming that he can clear these loans, and once the mortgage is gone, he will be able to live off the money he receives for fostering. He has a budget done out and everything. Things will just be VERY tight if he has to continue paying her 2 loans as well, which he did not co-sign or guarantee.


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