# Court summons



## Blossom (5 Apr 2010)

Perhaps members can help me.

In Dec 2008 I moved into Dublin. Because I was near everything I wasn't sure if I would keep my car or sell it. 

I made the stupid mistake of forgetting to renew my insurance and I got notice from the Gardaí in relation to this matter. Because I was busy (in the process of buying a new house) I can't remember the details very clearly but I think that I paid a fine. 

I'm going through all my bank records but to no avail- would it be possible that I may have paid online? I'm sure I paid anyway. 

I also called the garda station and spoke to someone who was very sympathetic and advised me to write a letter explaining my situation. However, I didn't do this and just paid the fine. Now ten months later I get a court summons in relation to this matter. 

I'm really confused... I (naively) thought that when I paid the fine that was it.   Does anyone have any idea what usually happens in court in these situations? To make matters worse I’m booked to go abroad with work the day of the court appearance. Could I get a solicitor to appear on my behalf…

Any insights or advice would be appreciated.


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## Sansan (5 Apr 2010)

Hi blossom, I don't fully understand your post, if you were stopped by the police for no insurance you would have been asked to produce your licence and/or insurance cert/ letter of exemption at a Garda station of your choice, so in court they will do you for failure to produce the above and for having the car in a public place without insurance, if you are lucky you will get 6 points and a nice fine, to be honest you are really looking at 1 year ban you can apply after 6 months to get licence back and a fine, I would not send a brief in my place I would try and ask the Garda due to personal situation to resechudle the court date, I would not hold out much hope of this either, 
best of luck,


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## Blossom (5 Apr 2010)

Sorrry I wasn't too clear. I wasn't caught driving without insurance. The car was just parked outside my house - I hadn't driven it in months and have since given it away.


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

So what you mean is you got a ticket because you wern't displaying a valid insurance disk, or no disk at all.  Was the car parked on the road or in your driveway? 

You said you got a notice, do you mean a summons to appear in court. What does it actually say? 

If you never once drove the car after the insurance had expired, then they cant take you to court


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## Blossom (5 Apr 2010)

The car was parked on the road directly outside my house. I hadn't driven it in the previous 7 months and I didn't drive it afterwards (I gave it away).  It had an insurance disk that was out of date. I can't remember what I initially got from the Gardai (although I'm nearly sure I paid something online).  What I got today is court summons saying '.... That you.... on ....a mechanically propelled vehicle reg no... was used while there was not carried on this vehicle an Insurance disk...etc' What should I do - ring the Garda station in question??


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## Billo (5 Apr 2010)

Blossom said:


> Sorrry I wasn't too clear. I wasn't caught driving without insurance. The car was just parked outside my house - I hadn't driven it in months and have since given it away.



Is it still registered in your name ?

Have you proof of sale ?

It looks like whoever  you gave it to was caught driving without insurance.


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

I think billo that she got this before she gave the car away. And even if it was afterwards that would mean that the driver gave her name and not their own. The summons said the word used.... to me that suggests that someone was driving the car. I know you have to have tax on a car even if it is parked outside you house but i dont think there is anything about having to have insurance if the car is just parked on the road. 

You need to read through the summons again.  If you are caught having no insurance, tax or even speeding they name the road and the area that you were caught or stopped on. 

This is very weird. The name of the guard should be on the summons as well, I suggest you contact them and try to clear this up. Find out exactely what this summons is for. Was someone else driving your car without your knowledge, or was it just because your insurance disk had expired. Even with it being expired they dont issue tickets outside people's house for no insurance, the only reason i can think that they do this is if your house is on a road that you have to pay for parking. But i just dont see them going around estates and slapping tickets on people, I'm sure there are loads of cars that are off the road that would not have nct or insurance disks you cant get done for that. 

Does it say anywhere on the summons that you failed to pay the fine. This could be because no fine was actually paid, maybe you are getting confused with something else. I've never had any dealing with not having insurance so you could have to pay the fine and appear in court as well. I'm not sure that even if the fine was paid thats the end of it.


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## bobalong (5 Apr 2010)

Hiya blossom,

A family member is a solicitor over with me today - we briefly talked of this. Straight advise from her and not as a money making opportunity by the way - "GO TO A SOLICITOR".

They can seek an adjournment in advance of your holiday. Plus it might work out cheaper both financially and ban wise to let the brief do your business rather than going with hear say OR what a Garda might say or remember.

Straight up - SOLICITOR - end of ...
Bob


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## Blossom (5 Apr 2010)

This definitely relates to the period of time before I gave my car away. I definitely wasn't driving it and it relates to an out of date insurance disk. Everything else was still in date (NCT, Tax etc). The name of the Garda is on the summons. Would it be okay to ring him to ask for clarification? Some conflicting advice here re. engaging a solicitor. Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated.


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## bobalong (5 Apr 2010)

Do you mind me asking - What clarification you need? Your insurance was out of date, your car, though unused was parked on a public road in this state. You were at fault - period.

Sorry to be so callous, but these are the facts. You are only prolonging things by ringing the Garda, all you will be told is what is on the summons. 

ENGAGE A SOLICITOR - you have gone outside of any grace periods, the court date is set, any further delaying and procrastinating is only going to penalise you severely .. no one else. 

Bobalong


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## mercman (5 Apr 2010)

Blossom said:


> The car was parked on the road directly outside my house. I hadn't driven it in the previous 7 months



And so says all of you. 

Bobalong has stated it very clearly. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Fail to understand what you want here. Someone else to go to Court and pay your fine for you ???.


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

bobalong i have to disagree with you there. The op was NOT at fault at all. As i said earlier i didn't think you had to have insurance to park your car on a public road outside you house. I have just rung my local garda station to confirm this and they have. 

There is no reason as to why the op should of received a ticket in the first place. She got the fine, thinks she paid and and she thought that was the end of it. Even if she did pay the fine she shouldn't of there was no reason for her to do so. She was not driving the car in the first place. 

She should contact the garda and explain the situation, yes time has passed but not everyone knows everything about the law. Maybe she just assumed she was at fault for letting it expire, and she did indeed need to pay the fine. Since she was asking our advice obviously she wasn't aware that you dont need to have a valid insurance to park on a public road. Now if she had of been parked anywhere else apart from outside her own home then of course she would of had to drive the car to get there in the first place, so she would of been breaking the law.


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## mercman (5 Apr 2010)

If the car was parked on a public highway then Insurance is required. What would happen if the car needed to be moved a couple of feet. Insurance would be required.


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

mercman said:


> And so says all of you.
> 
> Bobalong has stated it very clearly. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Fail to understand what you want here. Someone else to go to Court and pay your fine for you ???.



What a horrible thing to say.. you have bascially just said that she is lying, under what basic have you formed that conclusion? How would that benefit her at all by telling us wrong information.  

Coming out with unhelpful and hurtful comments is not helping anyone at all.


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

mercman said:


> If the car was parked on a public highway then Insurance is required. What would happen if the car needed to be moved a couple of feet. Insurance would be required.



What do you class as a public highway? I would say a road outside you house where other cars are parked and possibly children play is not a highway! 

Either way it makes no difference, the law as it stands says you dont need insurance to park your car outside of your house.  You cant say what if this and what if that, cause none of those things happened. Maybe it would be a different story is like you said the op had to move her car for whatever reason and something did happen, but that is not the case here.


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## mercman (5 Apr 2010)

My post is based on the fact that the car was parked on a Public Road. No ifs buts or maybes.


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## Blossom (5 Apr 2010)

I'm not disputing the fact that I should have had  insurance on my car even if it was only parked on the road outside my house. I'm sure many people use something similiar as an excuse. 

If some of you posters who are so quick to judge read my mails properly you would see that my question concerned my confusion re paying a fine and then months later receiving a court summons for something that I thought was settled.  It's not something that I've received before and wanted some advice before engaging a solicitor. When I go to court I will have no objection or problem paying whatever fine is imposed. What happened was a genuine (albeit stupid) mistake and I was looking for advice not criticism to make me feel worse!


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## mercman (5 Apr 2010)

An extract from the Rules of the Road:  _*A Garda may ask to see a valid motor insurance certificate anytime up to a month after observing or reasonably  believing that an uninsured vehicle has been used in a public place.*_


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## bobalong (5 Apr 2010)

Blossom,

My post - though terse - was just by way of saying where something like this is concerned and the fact that a court date has been set?? Do not mess around with it .. these things can have a knack of growing legs beyond what you expect is fair ..

If as you said "you paid a fine and then months later received a court summons for something that you thought was settled" AND if you cannot find proof of this payment, then go to the Garda Station where you paid the fine? They should have receipt book proof, bring that to court, get it quashed ..
bobalong


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## samanthajane (5 Apr 2010)

mercman said:


> An extract from the Rules of the Road:  _*A Garda may ask to see a valid motor insurance certificate anytime up to a month after observing or reasonably  believing that an uninsured vehicle has been used in a public place.*_



the key word being there is the word 'used'. 

All i know is that i rang the garda and they told me what they did. 

Blossom, you should be disputing the fact that you shouldn't of had the fine in the first place. Keep checking for the receipt or proof that you did pay. I found out that it is up to the garda in question weather to go to court or not even if the fine has been paid. If it was someone that had done this before a few times then they could feel that going to court is the right path to take. I think in this case you either (a) didn't actually pay the fine, so you have been order to appear in court for that and also for not having insurance, or (b) the garda has put through the paperwork for you to appear in court even though you did pay. In a lot of cases people who dont pay, often get orders to appear in court so as not to think they can just get away with never paying.

You need to find out for sure what it actually is. I dont personally believe you should of been fined in the first place. If you can say the car wasn't in use then you could get the fine dropped and the appearance in court cancelled. There cant be different rules for different garda, and the one i spoke to said if the car wasn't being driven you didn't actually need a valid insurance disk. 

There is no harm in going to the garda and trying to get it sorted out. Dont just let it go.


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## BeepBeep (16 Jul 2010)

> the law as it stands says you* dont need insurance to park your car  outside of your house*.


If it is a public road outside your house don't you need insurance?


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## niceoneted (16 Jul 2010)

Samantha jane - what way did you phrase the question to the Guard when you rang? Would they have thought that the car would be parked in a drive way. 
If parking in a public place whether car is in use or not you need insurance. 

To the OP - did you have the court date and what was the outcome?
In relation to you paying the fine (if you actually did) and then getting a subsequent summons - I would say it was because you have x no of days in which to pay the fine and you perhaps paid after that time frame thus getting the summons.


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## DriftMad (16 Jul 2010)

Just reading this, it's sooooo unfair, I know people who've been taken off 5 different cars for no insurance and no case in the court.


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## starlite68 (18 Jul 2010)

you dont need insurance fo a car thats parked up...only when its moving under its own steam, thats when insurance comes into play!


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## number7 (20 Jul 2010)

1. if you are unable to attend on the date summonsed then seek an adjournment until you are able to attend. Do this by ringing the court clerk they will advise you how.
2. Attend the court on the agreed date.
3. explain the situation to the judge and accept the fine he gives you.

If you have not paid the original fine by error or ommision and the judge accepts your cliam about not driving then the likely outcome is a doubling of the original fine and an award of costs to the state brief. so a €80 fine would become €160 and either €100 or €200 for costs depending on the mood of the judge.

If you have paid the fine but failed to produce proof of insurance to the station then the situation is a little different, it will depend on how the judge percieves your story. If the judge thinks you are telling porkies he could find against your for no insurance and that could carry a sentence of 1 year off the road and points and fine and costs.

or the judge could accept your story and treat it as non production of docs and you could get €100 to €200 plus costs.

Either way its important that you or a rep is in court on the agreed date if you have any proof of your story then I would bring it.

I am not offering this as 100% accurate advice just my experience. Theres lots of bad advice on this thread allready so hopefully I havent added to it.

Good luck


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## number7 (20 Jul 2010)

starlite68 said:


> you dont need insurance fo a car thats parked up...only when its moving under its own steam, thats when insurance comes into play!


 
Uninformed and incorrect


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## kieran160 (20 Jul 2010)

from the sounds of it you originally received a fixed charge notice (fcps) for "non display of valid insurance disc" which carries a fine which should have been paid within 56 days, the fine was not paid and a summons was issued. similar procedure to a parking ticket.

contact the garda and the garda can seek an adjournment to a suitable date if you are out of the country. 

on court date explain to the judge the circumstances, if convicted likely outcome is a doubleing of original fine. no penalty points or disqualification for non display of valid insurance disc, penalty points and disqualification only relates to someone summonsed and convicted for offence of "no insurance"


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