# Cost of replacing 24 yr old Potterton gas boiler



## elainem

Would anyone know the cost of replacing a 24 year old Potterton gas boiler with a condensor boiler. Currently the boiler is working perfectly, but the plumber who replaced a part in it last year said it is getting more difficult to locate parts - but I am still reluctant to replace it if it is working well.


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## lowCO2design

elainem said:


> Would anyone know the cost of replacing a 24 year old Potterton gas boiler with a condensor boiler. Currently the boiler is working perfectly, but the plumber who replaced a part in it last year said it is getting more difficult to locate parts - but I am still reluctant to replace it if it is working well.


what are your heating bills per year? a new boiler should half whatever they are


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## wbbs

Would it really halve it?  I have a 21 yr old Potterton gas boiler, also working perfectly TG.
I also use the gas for a hob, I got my tank filled recently and it cost practically 1,000 however it was over 13 months since last delivery.  I thought that was kind of good value, I have a 2,500 sq ft bungalow.   Would consider changing the boiler if I really thought it would halve the bills.


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## lowCO2design

let quantify this, what is the efficiency of your existing boiler? 

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lets say yours is circa 65% with current models at 95-97% efficiency, add % reduction of efficiency due to age, add any upgrades that are required to a 20+ year old system, maybe that's just the hot water tank and/or heating controls (so if you want the HWT heated, you dont have to heat the Rads etc and vice versa) 
its easy to see how you'd save half your running costs by upgrading the boiler, paying for itself in the first few years

[broken link removed]

plus there's are grants available 

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the next question is, if you're boiler is 20+ years old, what level of general building fabric upgrades are required?

Low CO2 Design Ltd


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## JohnJay

I'm always weary of the "change your boiler to save money" story. I too have an old Potterston boiler. My gas bills are usually pretty low (I have a small house and not a big heat fan) so my gas bill averages out at about €90 per bill. €10 of this is a standing charge, and I guess another €10 (very min) is used by my gas hob. That means it costs €70 to heat my house for 2 months. Even if a new boiler saved me 30% (which I cant see happening) I would save €126 per year. I would be a long time saving the price of a new boiler at €126 per year! 

I think I will let my old boiler limp along for as long as it can. Hopefully I can get a few more years out of it and the new boilers in a few years will be even more efficient and maybe cheaper than they are now.

BTW - the SEAI grants are a joke. The grant is for €560 but only when you use an approved supplier.  Most of the approved suppliers will add on €500 for the pleasure of being approved.


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## wbbs

Right, that's all too complicated for me, I'm not going to shell out to replace radiators etc or do any major work to fabric of house itself.   I am happy enough paying average 100 approx p.m. for my heat and hob, it seems reasonable to me when I talk to people who have oil, I know we are probably not comparing like with like as their houses might be in need of upgrading too.  I know my house is certainly very draughty from a badly done attic conversion but without incurring massive costs there is not much I can do about it now.

Will keep going until my trusty old Potterton gives up, hopefully not for a while yet.   Any of the original fittings in this house that I have replaced have not lasted anything like the length of the originals, they just don't make stuff as good I think.  I had a 30 yr old upright freezer that I eventually got rid of because it was icing up due to a door seal fault, new one is less than 3 yrs old and is useless, needs defrosting once a month, ices up worse than the old broken one, service man out 3 times and says it's fine!


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## lowCO2design

wbbs said:


> Right, that's all too complicated for me, I'm not going to shell out to replace radiators etc


i never mentioned rads


> or do any major work to fabric of house itself.   I am happy enough paying average 100 approx p.m. for my heat and hob,


good for you


> I know my house is certainly very draughty from a badly done attic conversion but without incurring massive costs there is not much I can do about it now.


i suppose you'd have to define 'massive' and how you value comfort of your home where one spends a fare portion of their time


> Will keep going until my trusty old Potterton gives up, hopefully not for a while yet.   Any of the original fittings in this house that I have replaced have not lasted anything like the length of the originals, they just don't make stuff as good I think.  I had a 30 yr old upright freezer that I eventually got rid of because it was icing up due to a door seal fault, new one is less than 3 yrs old and is useless, needs defrosting once a month, ices up worse than the old broken one, service man out 3 times and says it's fine!


 i have to agree that you get what you pay for.

but let me put it another way, do you have a twenty plus year old car and your timing belt is due to be changed, do you change it or wait for it to go? or then again, do you upgrade to a newer  model every few years for comfort and to reduce running costs/risk of break down?
if your happy with a draughty house, grand. and willing to wait for the boiler system to go completely fail fare enough. lets hope its during the summer


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## wbbs

Funny enough I have a 14 year old car which is due a timing belt change and I am holding out until the last minute, if it goes it goes.  

It's not about spending the money, it's about not having it to spend!


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## john martin

I notice that nobody has given an answer to your original question. There are quite a few variables but the cost to replace boiler only would be in the region of 2000 euros for a good quality boiler.


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## Knuttell

If it were me I would look to get a Veissman condenser boiler,they are pretty much top of the range when it comes to boilers and are bullet proof. 

I would think you would get one fitted incl system flush and a magnetec system? etc for €2,000-2,100.I had one fitted a year ago and have the chaps number,very reliable and obliging fella,needless to say I got 3-4 different quotes before I engaged him.

However if its still working there is no need to replace it,when next it gives trouble then you need to work out which is cheaper,repairing or replacing.


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## Shane007

I am in the business & most of my work is heating control upgrades & gas & oil boiler replacements. Saying that, I think SEAI is slightly exaggerating their figures or not fully explaining their publications.
Firstly, they work their figures from the most basic system & each point added gives a saving. For example adding a timeclock would add say 5%. I don't know a boiler system apart from solid fuel that does not already have a timeclock. Other additions are zone valves, thermostats, TRV's, etc. & each measure adds a saving.
High efficiency gas & oil boilers offer very differing savings.
Whilst a condensing boiler has a return temperature <20C lower than the flow, the boiler is in its most efficient state. This will deliver a saving of 15% over a standard efficiency boiler. If the boiler is over-sized, the system return will rise & eventually take the boiler out of condensing mode. At this stage, the boiler will only achieve a saving of approx 5% over a standard efficiency boiler.
This is for both oil & gas.
Where the gas boiler now wins hands down over an oil boiler & delivers far greater than 15% savings is its ability to modulate. A HE gas boiler will monitor its return temperature, turn down the flame to maintain a flatline demand & operate for longer but using a very small amount of gas. Think of it like boiling a pot of water on a gas ring. Full flame to bring it to boil, then simmer it just below boiling point to maintain the desired temperature but only on low flame, rather than full flame, let it cool a bit, then full flame, and so on.
Added with zone controls a gas boiler will behave exactly to suit the demand required of it at that particular moment, using only the fuel required. 
This is where the future lies with system efficiency. Obviously insulation & heat losses come into play but I am talking about the heating system.


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## wbbs

That's very interesting and especially about the gas boiler.  I don't understand the nuts and bolts of the thing obviously but I have always thought my boiler must use less gas to keep the radiators at the temp it does than the oil I had in previous house.  There is a dial on the boiler from 1 to 5, I have never turned it past 1.5 or so and at that you couldn't put your hand on a radiator, normally it is at a little less than 1.


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## Shane007

Your 21 year old gas boiler will certainly only fire on full flame or nothing. The setting on the dial will just make the boiler short cycle more frequently.
At that age, it may also have a permanent pilot light. If it does it is costing you approx €150 per year just to keep the pilot lit!


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## wbbs

Ok, I get it now, yes it does go off and on the whole time.   Must have a look tomorrow, I think there may be a pilot light alright, that's expensive just to keep that lighting!   Quite a percentage of the total €1,000 usage for year!


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## Shane007

If the pilot goes out when the boiler is off, then it is not a permanent pilot so the cost I quoted is not applicable.
Boilers such as the floor mounted Kingfisher have permanent pilots. Luckily most have all now been replaced but they are still out there.


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## elainem

*Replacing a 24 year old Potterton boiler?*

Hi! Everyone, thanks for all your comments/advice. The first quote I got was for e3000 - where I would pay 3000 up front and then claim the e500 grant money back - this seems quite a large amount to me for a boiler change, and I also wondered was this whole grant thing a bit of a scam! The plumber (who has done work for me before) said that zoning the heating system - which he said can be done on my system - would increase the energy efficency of the boiler and add to the BER rating. Is this true? I really don't see the point in putting zoning in on a two bedroomed house with open planc kitchen and living area? Am I correct? This quote was for a Bosch boiler.

The second quote was for e1850, with a Bosch boiler also, but without zoning.

I would welcome any comments/advice re the quotes.


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## Shane007

You are at nothing with either of them if a full & proper powerflush is not carried out before the new boiler is installed. It is part of manufacturer's warranty conditions. By the sounds of the pricing, it is not included in either.


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## elainem

*Replacing a 24 year old Potterton boiler*

Hi! Shane007, what should the cost be if a Powerflush was done before installation?

I will certainly now make sure it is done.


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## Shane007

A Powerflush on its own costs about €450 but we would always considerably discount the price if we were also replacing the boiler.
A proper Powerflush will take a day to complete to if they can Powerflush & change the boiler in the same day, something is amiss. It will be a 2 day job in total.
A drain down & refill is not a Powerflush. It is done with a dedicated Powerflushing machine & Powerflushing chemicals. The system should be properly inhibited upon completion also.
Also make sure they can fully commission the boiler with a flue gas analyiser. This is also a regulation & a must but many do have have one. Make sure you get a print out of the analysis.


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## elainem

*Replacing 24 year old gas boiler?*

Hi! Shane007, thanks so much for that advice. It's very clear. I'm pretty sure they were both not going to do the Powerflush. Just one more thing, can you let me know what 'properly inhibited' upon completion means - I understand the rest of the stuff, including the print-out bit?

Thanks.


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## Shane007

It means adding a chemical protection inhibitor such as Fernox F1 into the system following the Powerflush & boiler replacement. It coats the internals of the complete system to help prevent sludge from being created in the future.
Some don't Powerflush but add the inhibitor but this can cause problems if added to a dirty system.


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## elainem

*Replacing a 24 year old Potterton boiler?*

Thanks a mil! Now I understand what you mean! They will probably all be a bit flummoxed when I ask them about Powerflush and inhibitors! It's probably not the kind of questions they would think a woman would be asking!


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## Shane007

You're very welcome


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## Famous five

elainem said:


> Would anyone know the cost of replacing a 24 year old Potterton gas boiler with a condensor boiler. Currently the boiler is working perfectly, but the plumber who replaced a part in it last year said it is getting more difficult to locate parts - but I am still reluctant to replace it if it is working well.



I'd keep it till it dies as I changed mine and it was meant to lower bills, I live in a3 bed semi with attic conversion with electric cooker, stove fire on all day so gas in for 30 mins in morning and 3 mins at night, got a bill of 280 so if I was to put money into anything it would be for a stove with back boiler that heats rads.


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## lledlledlled

Hi guys, I'm in a similar situation to the OP.

My gas boiler (with permanent pilot light that has started to go out) is over 20 years old so I'm thinking of replacing it. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth the money. My current gas bills in winter are €40 per month which should drop a bit once I finish upgrading my attic insulation. In the warmer months I only use a bit of gas for cooking and I manually turn off the boiler pilot light. I have an electric shower so little or no DHW requirements.

I'm a bit sceptical whether a new boiler will 'halve' my bills. I am in a small terraced 2up 2down house (six radiators). It's just myself and the wife here (for the moment!) and if/when kids arrive we will be looking at moving to a bigger house and renting out this one. So our tenants may be the main beneficiaries of a more efficient boiler. I suppose we'll have to replace it at some point though and I'm beginning to think we might as well do it while we still live in the house. What size boiler should I be looking at? I know it's difficult to say without seeing the house but any ideas? I'm thinking I'd like to undersize it a bit if it means better efficiency. I think this may require replacing one of the radiators with a bigger one.

Is there any point in going for heating controls in my case? I don't think we need different areas zoned due to the size of the house. Surely we can just adjust the valves on the radiators in areas not being used? I would like to be able to heat the water without heating the radiators (which I currently cannot do) but if this adds major cost we can work away with our power hungry electric shower. If we were to shower using the DHW I think we'd need a pump to get decent pressure. If I don't go for the heating controls, I presume this rules me out of SEAI grants? 

I've read (admittedly from guys who profit from doing it) that a full Powerflush is essential when replacing a boiler. Although my system is old, the radiators are red hot and the only noise they make are normal expansion sounds as far as I can tell. Although maybe I'll get the flush done too if I can get a good price. How much extra would this be, considering the size of the house? 

Would be really grateful for any replies. This is a big investment so I don't want to make a mistake. From what I've read I'd like to go for a Veissmann or Worchester if I can afford them. I've just got one quote back so far which recommended a 15 kw glowworm hx boiler. Any thoughts on these?


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## JohnJay

lledlledlled said:


> My current gas bills in winter are €40 per month which should drop a bit once I finish upgrading my attic insulation. In the warmer months I only use a bit of gas for cooking and I manually turn off the boiler pilot light. I have an electric shower so little or no DHW requirements.



so if you take out the standing charges your gas usage is about €35 a month. 
Even if a new boiler saved you 20% that would be €7 per month, or €84 a year. 30% would save you €125 per year. It would be a long time paying back the cost of a new boiler. 

Of course there is an argument that your old boiler might break down and leave you without heating. But from what I hear, some of the newer ones are prone to breakdowns too.

You'd probably be better spending a few 100 extra on attic insulation.

As for power flush - I know nothing about it but from what I read about it it makes sense. If there is gunge in your heating system then it has to reduce efficiency.


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## Shane007

lledlledlled said:


> I'm a bit sceptical whether a new boiler will 'halve' my bills. I am in a small terraced 2up 2down house (six radiators). It's just myself and the wife here (for the moment!) and if/when kids arrive we will be looking at moving to a bigger house and renting out this one. So our tenants may be the main beneficiaries of a more efficient boiler. I suppose we'll have to replace it at some point though and I'm beginning to think we might as well do it while we still live in the house. What size boiler should I be looking at? I know it's difficult to say without seeing the house but any ideas? I'm thinking I'd like to undersize it a bit if it means better efficiency. I think this may require replacing one of the radiators with a bigger one.


It is very rare that you will save 50% especially with such small usage. The larger the usage and the larger the system, the easier it is to achieve larger percentage savings. Your pilot light is costing you approx €10 per month to have it on.
Boiler size approx 15 - 18kw but this should really be sized correctly depending upon the size of the rooms, floor types, number of external walls, etc.



lledlledlled said:


> Is there any point in going for heating controls in my case? I don't think we need different areas zoned due to the size of the house. Surely we can just adjust the valves on the radiators in areas not being used? I would like to be able to heat the water without heating the radiators (which I currently cannot do) but if this adds major cost we can work away with our power hungry electric shower. If we were to shower using the DHW I think we'd need a pump to get decent pressure.


Heating controls are always of benefit. You must way up the benefit of timing when the upstairs heating comes on, having it temperature controlled & only heating where you want when you want towards the cost of installing zones.



lledlledlled said:


> If I don't go for the heating controls, I presume this rules me out of SEAI grants?


Yup


lledlledlled said:


> I've read (admittedly from guys who profit from doing it) that a full Powerflush is essential when replacing a boiler. Although my system is old, the radiators are red hot and the only noise they make are normal expansion sounds as far as I can tell. Although maybe I'll get the flush done too if I can get a good price. How much extra would this be, considering the size of the house?


It is an absolute must to powerflush a system when installing a HE boiler. It would be akin to fitting a brand new engine in your car but re-using the old oil from the old engine! Nuts.... Sludge will destroy a HE gas boiler heat exchanger. They are so much responsive than a standard efficiency boiler it they have very small passage ways in the exchanger.
Only today, I was called to a one year old HE gas boiler with a destroyed exchanger because the installer did not powerflush. He only drained & refilled but called it a powerflush.


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## lledlledlled

Thanks Shane,

I got a guy out yesterday to have a look at the house. He's to send me a quotation today. He recommends installing either Ideal or Baxi brands. He says the Viessman & Worchester are top of the range but as we have such little gas demand it might not be worth paying the extra. He also said rather than full powerflush he'd stick a high power magnet on the system which would get rid of all the little bits of steel, after which he'd pour in chemicals to get rid of more & finally put in an inhibitor.

At present I only really use my boiler in the coldest six months of the year so the pilot light is only lit for this time. Still, it's a waste all the same.

I'm not going to go with zoned heating controls at this time. We have a small house and hardly any need for hot water as we have a dishwasher & electric shower. I'll get TRV's and set room temperatures that way.

I still can't decide if I'd be better off keeping the existing system until it packs it in. Our gas bills are only €45 per month in the coldest months and that includes gas for cooking. We'd be a long time making back a €2000 installation.


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## Shane007

Change your installer. Sticking a magnet cleanse on a system is a waste of time. He is only suggesting that because he does not have a Powerflushing machine. It is a must for gas boilers.
Regarding the boilers, he had quoted you for the cheapest on the market. For a small bit more, perhaps €100, you could go for a Bosch, Viessmann or an Ariston. My preferred is the Ariston because its parameters can be changed to suit your small system. Extremely adaptable.
Your usage is very small so you would have to decide on whether the boiler is worth replacing or not. If the boiler is running fine & is heating all the rads & water sufficiently, it may not be worth replacing.


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## lledlledlled

Shane007 said:


> Change your installer. Sticking a magnet cleanse on a system is a waste of time. He is only suggesting that because he does not have a Powerflushing machine. It is a must for gas boilers.
> Regarding the boilers, he had quoted you for the cheapest on the market. For a small bit more, perhaps €100, you could go for a Bosch, Viessmann or an Ariston. My preferred is the Ariston because its parameters can be changed to suit your small system. Extremely adaptable.
> Your usage is very small so you would have to decide on whether the boiler is worth replacing or not. If the boiler is running fine & is heating all the rads & water sufficiently, it may not be worth replacing.



I'll certainly get a few more quotes but he seemed fairly professional to me. He said he can and will do a powerflush if we want it but there's a 5% chance of it causing a leak due to the age of the system. 
He'll also do the Viessmann which would involve going down the SEAI route (zones, BER, etc) and would work out at €250 extra, above an 18kW Ideal Logic. 
Is there anything wrong with the Ideal boiler? He said there's a five year guarantee. I presume it's the same with a Viessmann.


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## Shane007

Anybody who has Powerflushing equipment would not suggest putting in a magna cleanse as an viable alternative. I have only had a call out on Monday to a destroyed heat exchanger in a 1 year old gas boiler. I cannot stress the importance of it enough.
Regarding Ideals, IMHO they are an ok boiler, fairly low down on my list.
Why do you have to go the SEAI route if you wish to install a Viessmann? That's a new one to me!


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## lledlledlled

Shane007 said:


> Anybody who has Powerflushing equipment would not suggest putting in a magna cleanse as an viable alternative. I have only had a call out on Monday to a destroyed heat exchanger in a 1 year old gas boiler. I cannot stress the importance of it enough.
> Regarding Ideals, IMHO they are an ok boiler, fairly low down on my list.
> Why do you have to go the SEAI route if you wish to install a Viessmann? That's a new one to me!



I don't have to go down the SEAI route but if I don't the difference in the jobs is €700, as extra pipework will be involved if I want to use it properly. If I do go the SEAI route I get a better quality boiler, zoned heating/DHW controls & a BER cert for €250 when you take the grant into account. If installing the Ideal, he will put a lever valve on my HW tank so I won't waste money heating the water every time I put the heating on which is currently the case. I have a very low HW demand because I have a dishwasher & electric shower.

I have a couple of other questions since getting the quote. It'd be great if you could fill in a few more blanks for me:

Does the installer need to have done a Viessmann course in England for me to get a five year warranty or do I get this anyway?  

What should the Temperature Out and Temperature In figures be to achieve high efficiency? I think he said it would be 70 and 50 degrees C. Should the return be less than 50?

I read somewhere that in order to ensure that the boiler is often in condesing mode, it might be an idea to slightly indersize it. Is this advisable? 

In case you're interested the two boilers he's quoting for are Viessmann Vittodens 19 kW and Ideal Logic 18kW. I've read that the Logic series is better than past Ideal ranges. I'm not sure if the Viessmann is 100W or 200W. What is the difference in performance?

Do you reckon the installer doesn't have a proper Powerflush machine? I'll make sure to check that he does. Is his reasoning for the magna clean option not valid, i.e. the high velocities of the powerflush could cause a leak on an old system? I was just on to my dad there. He got a WB boiler put in two years ago. Presumably it's a higher output as the house is bigger, they love heat, and use DHW for showers. He said the installer never ran anything through the radiator system! Is this something he can/should get done now? How much would it cost? It's a four bedroom house, think there's ten radiators in total. 

Thanks again.


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## lledlledlled

It just occurred to me that the boiler will need to be wired electrically. Is this something that is normally included in the quote or is it a separate job? I would have presumed paying for supply & installation of a boiler meant that it'd be up and running when he left. I'd better check this with him too.


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## sulo

Be interested to know - what impact the whole process has on existing floors, walls, rooms .... i.e do they have to pull up flooring to access pipes?  What re-work needs to be done?

I have a Kingfisher free standing potterton, and its no doubt OLD!.. However it is working.. but I have always wondered the impact replacing it will have on my home (especially the new floors/tiles I have downstairs)!!!


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## lledlledlled

sulo said:


> Be interested to know - what impact the whole process has on existing floors, walls, rooms .... i.e do they have to pull up flooring to access pipes?  What re-work needs to be done?
> 
> I have a Kingfisher free standing potterton, and its no doubt OLD!.. However it is working.. but I have always wondered the impact replacing it will have on my home (especially the new floors/tiles I have downstairs)!!!



I'm no expert so I'll leave the fact to the other guys but I did get a quotation for a similar job this week so I'll tell you my situation. I'm looking at replacing my 20+ year old gas boiler. 

As the new one has to go on an external wall, the pipes will be going a different route to the old boiler so the old pipes can just stay where they are. The new installation involves running two pipes from my gas meter (which is attached to the outside of the front of the house) to the new boiler which will be in the room directly upstairs. Unfortunately this will mean being able to see two white plastic pipes running up the outside of the house unless I tear apart my kitchen to run them inside. 

Another option would be to site the boiler on a wall at the back of the house. This would use existing gas pipe routes. However, the RGI I got the quote from says the existing pipes (I think he said they're an inch and a half) need to be replaced by bigger pipes (I think inch and a quarter), otherwise the boiler wouldn't get enough gas. In my case it wouldn't involve a huge amount of disruption to the house but it would add significant cost to the job so that rules it out for me. Although I hate the thoughts of pipes running up the outside of the house. The RGI said I can paint them the colour of the house. I might look into building some sort of box around them. 

I suppose the only way you'll know what the job involves in your house is to get an RGI in to price the job. And then get a few more quotes. Every installer seems to have a different solution as far as I can see.


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## Shane007

lledlledlled said:


> It just occurred to me that the boiler will need to be wired electrically. Is this something that is normally included in the quote or is it a separate job? I would have presumed paying for supply & installation of a boiler meant that it'd be up and running when he left. I'd better check this with him too.


Most registered gas installers are also certified for electrical minor works. This covers how to properly wire a complete heating system the way it should be done A - Z. How good the installer is will vary like any trade or professional. 
A boiler installation would always include wiring & full commissioning with flue gas analysis.


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## Shane007

sulo said:


> Be interested to know - what impact the whole process has on existing floors, walls, rooms .... i.e do they have to pull up flooring to access pipes?  What re-work needs to be done?
> 
> I have a Kingfisher free standing potterton, and its no doubt OLD!.. However it is working.. but I have always wondered the impact replacing it will have on my home (especially the new floors/tiles I have downstairs)!!!


A great boiler for its day. Fairly bullet proof and very uncomplicated. Downside is very slow to heat & has a permanent pilot light which on average costs €150 per year to keep lit.
I recently took out one which is now in the training college so that installers can get experience on them.
Regarding disruption, for a boiler swap over, there would be no floors required to be lifted. Zoning works may have but it would be extremely rare for follow up repair works to be done. We lift carpets, floors & re-instate everything on completion & homeowners never realise what we have disrupted.


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## sulo

Thanks Shane.


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## PolkaDot

Shane 007, you seem to really be in the know about these things.

Could you give me an indication on what is the typical price difference between a Viessman & Worchester boiler? Assume say 24kV size.

Thanks


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## Shane007

Both are very good boilers but....
Bosch has a very awkward to service heat exchanger so many service engineers are encouraged to leave til the following year to clean. Then the next comes & it still doesn't get done. Then the guy who does open it has a mare of a time to get the carbon deposits from it & it gets worse every year. I don't like their standard telescopic flue either as the joint ends up within the wall cavity which can never be inspected for leakage.

Viessmann, an excellent boiler but just too expensive for what it is. It has not re-invented the wheel for why €250 more expensive than it's nearest same quality boiler.

So for me, there are equally as good quality boilers on the market that are cheaper & have all the bells & whistles but don't cost as much, as easier to service & have even more advanced internal controls.


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## Silvergirl

I've a Potterton too that is also plus 20 years and has finally sprung a leak. The gas engineer told me that as it's an older system I should replace it with another Potterton Baxi A Rated boiler - it should have a cast iron heat exchanger, and I should get another 20 years problem free. He also recommended to get the full kit replaced, you can save money on the short term reusing the old parts but they will also start to go in the next few years. Got quote 2K to replace the lot. Is this a good price? He said he can do other boilers for around 1700 but they may last 5 years. I know a few of my neighbours have had theirs replaced after only 4/5 years use. It's in our old house which is now a rented property so I'd rather do it once. 20 years is good value for money, 5 years isn't!


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## Shane007

Baxi has issues with their gas valve. They brought in a new technology valve that has back fired on them. They are being taking off the market in the UK & rest is being pawned off on the Irish market.

Either way, make sure your installer is carrying out a full mechanical power flush of your heating system prior to the replacement. This is why boilers are only lasting 5 years. Many decent boiler makes are offering 5 year parts & labour warranties.


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## Silvergirl

Thanks Shane, does any other boiler you'd recommend have a cast iron heat exchanger. Will def get him to do a power flush, thanks for your advice. Does the price sound about right?


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## Shane007

For a Baxi, probably about right. For higher quality 5 year warranty boiler including power flush, I would be in region of €2,200.

No high efficiency boiler has a cast iron heat exchanger! They all have stainless steel or aluminium. Many will give a 10 year warranty on their heat exchangers, but conditions apply, i.e. how clean is the system, was it power flushed, was inhibitor installed, was the boiler properly commissioned & has it been annually serviced by an RGI since it was installed.


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## Silvergirl

Thank you for your help.


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## PolkaDot

Shane007 said:


> So for me, there are equally as good quality boilers on the market that are cheaper & have all the bells & whistles but don't cost as much, as easier to service & have even more advanced internal controls.



Would you be able to recommend a couple of alternatives that would be worth looking into?

I've just bought a house and I'm looking into whether or not I should upgrade the boiler. I found some documentation indicating that the previous owner switched from oil to gas in 2003. The current boiler is a Potterton Kingfisher Mf. I'm not sure whether I should spend €2-€2.5k on a new boiler. I'm on a tight budget and have plenty of work to do in the house. 

If you're interested in coming to have a look and giving me a quote, please PM me. I'm based in Dublin.


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## Shane007

PM sent.
Kingfisher is a fairly simple but bulletproof boiler. Downside is the efficiency is very low. They also have pilot light which will be costing approx €150 per year to keep lit.


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## dbm103

Hi Shane,

We need to replace our old Mynute boiler and our house is in an area that has water pressure issues and we have been advised by one guy not to go with gloworm flexicom for that reason, as the gloworm would be too sensitive.  The Ideal Logic IE, was suggested as an alternative, as it is especially for the Irish Market.  Just wanted to know what you think and if you have come across it.  My concern is that Ideal seems to be at the lower end of gas boiler range. Thanks


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## Shane007

When you say your area has water pressure issues, are fitting a combi boiler or a system boiler? If you are installing a combi, you should not be connecting it directly to mains. It should be through a breaker tank & booster pump.
If a system boiler, then the area mains pressure will have no bearing on your heating system.

Both those boilers IMO would be bottom of my list of boilers.


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## moneybox

Shane007 said:


> .
> 
> So for me, there are equally as good quality boilers on the market that are cheaper & have all the bells & whistles but don't cost as much, as easier to service & have even more advanced internal controls.


 
Shane 007, I am about to change my 14 year old gas potterson boiler, can you recommend a good quality condenser boiler.

This is a very informative thread, many thanks to you for your knowledge and expertise in the area.


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## Shane007

moneybox said:


> Shane 007, I am about to change my 14 year old gas potterson boiler, can you recommend a good quality condenser boiler.
> 
> This is a very informative thread, many thanks to you for your knowledge and expertise in the area.



Probably the Vokera iMynute. It was only released this year & is probably the most efficient boiler on the market due to its high modulation rate.
Boilers lose a lot of efficient if they cycle on & off too many times per hour as there is unburnt gas exiting the flue when the switch on & off.
All Band A boilers have a modulation ratio of 4:1 but the iMynute has a ratio of 8:1. This means 20kw can match a system demand down to 2.5kw where any other boiler, including Vokera's other range, can only modulate down to 5kw. 
So basically the flame turns down to a trickle heat maintaining the system demand when it is hot, but only using minimal gas to do so. This equals very few cycles per hour.
It also has an excellent heat exchanger. Their distribution centre is in Ireland too so parts are easily accessible & cheap too.

Cost wise, it's about €150 more expensive than say the Vokera Vision. 
Other good boilers on the market would be Ariston, Worchester Bosch, Valliant & Viessmann. Viessmann are about €400 dearer than the others & I can't seem to see where the extra money is. It has a stainless steel heat exchanger, which are pretty much bullet proof, but they take much longer to heat as s/steel is a poor conductor of heat.


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## moneybox

Thank you Shane for the updated information on the most efficient condenser gas boiler, it is great to know this.  Next, do I just contact a registered gas installer in my area and ask them if they cover all the questions posted above such as flushing the system etc and when I do fine someone reputable do I then apply for a grant towards the purchase cost. Would you be able to recommend anyone in the Cork area, I would love to get you but I gather you are based in Dublin


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## Shane007

There is no grant for a boiler only upgrade. It must be accompanied with a full heating control upgrade also.
There is a carbon credit scheme that you maybe able to avail of.

The worst thing you can do is just pick an RGI from a list. Their abilities vary dramatically. 
I would most certainly go by recommendation or referral. Perhaps you could put up a post in the Recommended Trades section. Check with family, friends or work colleagues and ask as many questions as feel necessary. If they cannot answer them and instil confidence, then walk away. There are plenty of good installers out there.
I cover Kilkenny to Dublin, I'm afraid, and I don't know any installers in the Cork area.


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