# Management company refuses to repair roof leak



## PinkElf

I'm an owner in an apartment complex. My tenant reported a leak to me and I in turn reported it to the management company. Never been a day late with my service charges in the past 7 years.  A number of people in the complex have not been paying their fees so the whole complex is impacted. This is the response I got, please advise:

"
I am reverting back to you in relation to the current leak in your property.
Unfortunately, just at the moment, I am not in a position to send a roofing contractor to site to address this problem.
You should have received a copy of the attached notice from your Board of Directors which was sent to all owners back in July. Unfortunately the financial situation for the management company has not improved since this notice was issued. Whereas I am aware that your own service charge fees are paid up to date, the non payment, or insufficient payment, by your fellow owners has severely impacted your management company’s ability to trade and I cannot engage the services of a contractor in the sure and certain knowledge that he is not going to be paid for his work (for the foreseeable future at least).
Obviously if/when the financial situation changes we can then appoint a roofing contractor to repair the roof. In the meantime we would ask that your tenant monitors the leak closely.
Kind regards,
XXXXX XXXXXX
Property Administrator


"


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## niceoneted

I would be inclined to get the leak fixed myself and take the cost out of future Management fees.


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## Joe_90

That's fine but if the leak is in the OP apartment, if not they have no authority at access and carry out works on other parts of the building.

Is it something that the building insurance would cover?

I understand the frustration of the OP but blaming the directors is not the answer, it's your fellow apartment owners who don't pay their fees.

Perhaps you should become a director of the management company.


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## lantus

The roof is private property of the OMC. To access and repair it would be trespass and may easily invalidate the entire block insurance policy if unauthorised works are carried out against the companies wishes. You may come to an arrangement with the directors by suggesting they get quotes and you will meet all or a portion of the cost yourself.


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## mathepac

Joe_90 said:


> ...
> I understand the frustration of the OP but blaming the directors is not the answer, it's your fellow apartment owners who don't pay their fees. ...


Part of the overall responsibility of the management company is to maintain the fabric of the building and to ensure that there are adequate funds in the kitty or insurances in place to carry out maintenance work. In the OP's case the directors are failing in their duties and responsibilities in not collecting arrears from property owners who have failed to pay service charges. It is up to the directors to "incentivize" reluctant payers.

Call an EGM, vote out the current directors and establish a new active board in order to stop the property falling in to serious disrepair.


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## Joe_90

Have you a golden bullet to get management fees paid?

Are you involved in many management companies?


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## mercman

More important, is the Insurance premiums paid up to date. If they are well and good, commence making a claim. If they are not, then there could be a massive problem, as lenders rely on Insurance as a form of security in cases where owners have mortgages on their properties.


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## Dermot

[mathepac

Call an EGM, vote out the current directors and establish a new active board in order to stop the property falling in to serious disrepair.[/QUOTE]

What is the exact procedure for doing all of the above as a Management Company that I am a member of needs a serious shake up of its Directors


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## Joe_90

If you asked the current directors they may give you the job, it's one of the most thankless tasks in the world.


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## Dermot

Joe_90
If you asked the current directors they may give you the job, it's one of the most thankless tasks in the world.

I may open a new thread on the subject. I would in normal circumstances totally agree with you but these people do not want to leave or co operate with anybody.  It is a long story but they are using their position for financial gain and ripping off the Management Co with fees and will not account for anything.


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## mathepac

Joe_90 said:


> Have you a golden bullet to get management fees paid? ...


IME there is no silver bullet or panacea in these situations, but based on the information supplied it sounds like the current board members are unable / unwilling to discharge their responsibilities. Step 1, replace them.


Joe_90 said:


> ... Are you involved in many management companies?


Not any longer TG.


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## mathepac

Dermot said:


> ...
> What is the exact procedure for doing all of the above as a Management Company that I am a member of needs a serious shake up of its Directors


First consult your copies of the Memorandum and Articles of Association of your  management company. As a property owner in the development and as a company member in good standing you should have copies of them.

Secondly from a company law perspective look here:-  http://www.odce.ie


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## lantus

unless the damage was caused by storm or fire it is unlikely it will be covered. Given the excess is probably thousands and the rise in annual premium would be even more it would be very bad practice to claim on the policy for such a reason. Its there to protect against massive loss. Not a chipped nail.

Enforcing the lease is easier said than done. Despite the law being on your side you can often face the most vicious and hatful threats and intimidation or blackmail from unit owners and even their friends, family and third parties who may be affected. It takes a lot of determination to see it through.


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## Joe_90

The MUD Act was brought in to protect unit owners from Developers.

It does nothing to protect unit owners from other unit owners who don't pay their subs.

In a recent company I saw every member refused to pay their sub because 1/2 had not paid in the prior year so only the insurance could be paid and maintenance could not be done.

The directors had to pay the insurance for the property themselves.

The Mgt Co can do things like bring in parking permits to try and ensure payment but that can be expensive.  Something will have to be done as people like the OP who pay their subs are being unfairly affected.

Anyone got any suggestions?


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## lantus

MUD act doesn't help directors run the company either. Its a tough system that forces members of a community to take up positions of responsibility which can easily result in them having to take fellow neighbours to court or restrict access, parking. Not the best thought through system. Little wonder why so few people want to take up the job and OMCs are failing around the country.

People would rather have a property worth nothing than the real threat of a petrol bomb or worse coming at them. It might only be threats but put yourself in that situation when you have kids and see how well you sleep at night knowing at any time some scum bag come at you and seriously hurt you or your family.

There needs to be an overhaul of the law so that at the very least a service fee is tied into a mortgage payment and cannot be left unpaid except in all but the most extreme circumstances. The banks should be liable to pay the fee if unpaid for whatever reason and the costs taken from the property which they can take ownership of much easier. This must be retrospective to ensure all existing companies and members are encapsulated. In the event that people don't have a mortgage they must be tied into their bank account so that the service fee becomes like a mortgage payment without the actual mortgage.

If Directors didn't have the responsibility of being tax men and enforcing very difficult financial matters they could focus on building maintenance and we would almost certainly have more people take the job on. People don't want the job of having to enforce payment on fellow neighbours.

Basically the responsibility of unpaid volunteers must not include chasing people down for money IMHO. There are people who would not that job for substantial money.


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## PinkElf

Joe_90 said:


> I understand the frustration of the OP but blaming the directors is not the answer, it's your fellow apartment owners who don't pay their fees.
> 
> Perhaps you should become a director of the management company.


 

I reread my post and I dont see anywhere that I blamed the directors...


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## PinkElf

Thank you all for you resposnes, please keep them coming...


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## Joe_90

PinkElf said:


> I reread my post and I dont see anywhere that I blamed the directors...



Thread title


> *Management company refuses to repair roof leak *



I interpreted this as you blaming the directors - if not the directors then who?


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## STEINER

Joe_90 said:


> The MUD Act was brought in to protect unit owners from Developers.  *How does it do this? In my OMC the directors are employees of the developer.*
> 
> It does nothing to protect unit owners from other unit owners who don't pay their subs. *about 20% of owners in my OMC don't pay at all and fees owing just increase year on year.  The most recent audited figures show a debtor balance of 300k which is all overdue and 10% up on previous year*
> 
> 
> The Mgt Co can do things like bring in parking permits to try and ensure payment but that can be expensive.  *that got a mention in the media today out in Ongar in Dublin http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...mes-in-row-over-management-fees-30534219.html *Something will have to be done as people like the OP who pay their subs are being unfairly affected.
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions?



With my own OMC, the high level of non payers is forcing cut backs in maintenance.  20% of unit owners are not paying, with a lot of these owing several years in fees.  There isn't any improvement year on year.

Some fees will only be recovered when units are sold, I can't see the 150 non-paying units being sold in my complex anytime soon.

That clamping of vehicles sounds like a possibility.


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## PinkElf

Joe_90 said:


> Thread title
> 
> 
> I interpreted this as you blaming the directors - if not the directors then who?



*sigh*. Not looking to get in an argument with you. Forget it. Thank you!


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## Bronte

PinkElf said:


> In the meantime we would ask that your tenant monitors the leak closely.
> 
> "


 
I've only seen this thread now and all I can say is OMG   Another reason to stay away from 'managed' estates.


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## Bronte

PinkElf said:


> *sigh*. Not looking to get in an argument with you. Forget it. Thank you!


 
Relax it's just the way he read it.  

Do you know where the leak is, would you be willing to pay for it to be fixed?  Is the location easily reached?


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## Leo

Bronte said:


> Do you know where the leak is, would you be willing to pay for it to be fixed?  Is the location easily reached?



I wouldn't recommend that approach. That could leave the OP liable for significant costs if they undertook unauthorised work on property that does not belong to them.


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## Bronte

Leo said:


> I wouldn't recommend that approach. That could leave the OP liable for significant costs if they undertook unauthorised work on property that does not belong to them.


 
I'm sorry Leo I take a different view.  If a leak is allowed to get worse it will do serious damage, then he'll have no tenants and no income and be in a lot more trouble.


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## Leo

Bronte said:


> I'm sorry Leo I take a different view.  If a leak is allowed to get worse it will do serious damage, then he'll have no tenants and no income and be in a lot more trouble.



I hear you, leaks can result in very significant damage over time, but undertaking illegal works could leave them in a much worse situation. And that's even assuming they can get someone to carry out the work without proper authorisation. 

I've a friend in a very similar situation who's also getting nowhere fast as the MC say they have no money due to the number of units not paying their charges. They told the MC they'd just go get the work done themselves, the MC warned them they if they proceeded, the MC would take action against them for the full costs of undoing anything they did plus all repairs required to the area.


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## so-crates

If they have written permission from the MC to do the repairs would that resolve the legal position? My concern would be going forward would it have any impact on the insurance or on any future repairs. The MC would have to undertake to accept the job done by whoever the OP gets to to the work.


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## Leo

Yes, that would then allow for the work to take place, but they are then  liable for all costs incurred. Leaks can be notoriously difficult to  track down, and expensive to repair. Introduce the height involved in  most apartment complexes and that brings the extra expense of  scaffolding, hoists, etc. into it. The investigation phase alone could  run into thousands, the repairs, 10s of thousands.

They would also need to be very careful that the agreement with the MC dosen't end up with them being responsible for any ongoing or future issues in that area. I'd strongly recommend seeking legal advice before going down that road.


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