# Disclaimer for kids soccer group organiser



## BlueSpud (18 May 2007)

I am organising a game of soccer once a week for the kids in my sons class (7 year olds), as they have limited opportunity to play in and after school. We have an organised session one evening a week with a great turnout, but I am concerned that if anything goes wrong, myself & other organisers might find ourselves on the receiving end of a law suit. I do not want to go down the route of forming a club and all that goes with it, as we will only play in May/June & Sept/Oct.

What I would like is to get my hands on a disclaimer that the parents would sign to say that the parents are responsible for their own kids and not the organisers.

Anybody got anything that I could use, that is known to be solid?


----------



## Vanilla (18 May 2007)

Disclaimers don't work. You need insurance.


----------



## car (18 May 2007)

vanillas right bluespud.  Call First Ireland at 01-8820818 and ask for a First Ireland Club Care Quotation.  They'll give you all the info you need.  
Theres another crowd called ODriscoll/ONeill who _used_ to do sports insurance not sure if they still do and I dont have a number for them.  

Also, ask the kids if their parents have health insurance, they should be covered under that,  VHI/BUPA policys would be be far better then anything youd get from sports insurers.


----------



## simplyjoe (18 May 2007)

Be carefull especially in the area of child protection. Soccer coaches have to undergo training to avoid incorrect accusations being levied at them. For instance there should always be two adults present when you are coaching or transporting kids. I would say you have to join a club!


----------



## monkeyboy (18 May 2007)

BlueSpud said:


> What I would like is to get my hands on a disclaimer that the parents would sign to say that the parents are responsible for their own kids and not the organisers.
> 
> Anybody got anything that I could use, that is known to be solid?



Sad that this is the world we live in that you cannot do such a thing without personal risk. Will have to cover bases in red tape and insurance as the others say. May make it financially infeasible thoguh :-(


----------



## BlueSpud (18 May 2007)

simplyjoe said:


> Be carefull especially in the area of child protection. Soccer coaches have to undergo training to avoid incorrect accusations being levied at them. For instance there should always be two adults present when you are coaching or transporting kids. I would say you have to join a club!


 
In this situation, most of the parents will be present, and we will not be transporting tids to play matches.  The games will be among themselves.


----------



## BlueSpud (18 May 2007)

car said:


> Call First Ireland at 01-8820818 and ask for a First Ireland Club Care Quotation.


 
Called these guys and they said that they will only cover us if we form a club and play against other teams......





car said:


> vanillas right bluespud.
> ....
> Also, ask the kids if their parents have health insurance, they should be covered under that, VHI/BUPA policies would be be far better then anything youd get from sports insurers.


 
Surely the above is inconsistent. If the VHI/BUPA policies would do, we would not need for cover at all.

As most parents will be present, I don't expect issues with child protection. What I am more concerned about are injury claims. If a child gets a nasty injury, can the parent come after me for negligence, even though I am not purporting to be an expert adhering to well defined guidelines.

The whole thing was my brainchild, but other parents ref the matches etc and are involved in other capacities. Could a number of people be targeted in the event of a problem, and surely a disclaimer should carry a lot of weight, i.e. that the parent knows that the organisers do not take responsibilities on themselves.


----------



## ramble (18 May 2007)

If the kids parents are present, then I don't  see how you could be sued short of you or one of the other parents actually hurting one of the kids.  If a group of adults were meeting up once a week for a football game (not unusual) and one of them breaks a leg falling over the ball can he sue the guy who's turn it was to book the venue and send the texts ?  If you are not a club, are not holding yourself out as giving lessons for a fee, or offering to mind the kids, then how can you be responsible for them.  

Seven year olds are small kids, shouldn't be out and about without a parent, just make sure the parents know that - tell them they have to stay and watch.


----------



## BlueSpud (19 May 2007)

ramble said:


> If the kids parents are present, then I don't see how you could be sued short of you or one of the other parents actually hurting one of the kids. If a group of adults were meeting up once a week for a football game (not unusual) and one of them breaks a leg falling over the ball can he sue the guy who's turn it was to book the venue and send the texts ? If you are not a club, are not holding yourself out as giving lessons for a fee, or offering to mind the kids, then how can you be responsible for them.
> 
> Seven year olds are small kids, shouldn't be out and about without a parent, just make sure the parents know that - tell them they have to stay and watch.


 
Thats more or less what I feel, but I would like it to be confirmed legally.  Guess i will have to go to a solicitor to get a definitive ruling.


----------



## car (20 May 2007)

> Surely the above is inconsistent. If the VHI/BUPA policies would do, we would not need for cover at all.


Ive been involved with soccer clubs for years and insurance is always a greyish area, the general rule seems to be if you form a club that plays against other teams you need to take out team insurance ala that crowd I mentioned, If a player signs for the team then he/she is automatically covered under the teams policy. Ive no connection with any of those companies btw I was just aware that they did sports ins.    
However, if you have your own insurance through VHI/BUPA the level of cover you have is generally higher then that through the club insurance.   I may be wrong on this but I think if you claim under one policy you cant claim under the other.  Not everyone has their own insurance though.   
It might depend on the venue as well e.g, private hall/astro pitch/council field as to what level of cover is required as there might be cover already built into whatever monies you're parting with to pay for the facilities.
Fair play for doing it anyway.


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

car said:


> It might depend on the venue as well e.g, private hall/astro pitch/council field as to what level of cover is required as there might be cover already built into whatever monies you're parting with to pay for the facilities.


 
We are using the local park, and bcos we are not a club, the park dont want to know about us.  We are just a bunch meeting for a game of footie & would have to move if they wanted to use the pitch.


----------



## ubiquitous (21 May 2007)

See http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=55164 for an example of the type of thing you are up against.


----------



## therave (21 May 2007)

good on you bluespud for organising such an event.. it's a pity some other parents don't ake such an interest in their kids and do the same...


----------



## May07 (21 May 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> See http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=55164 for an example of the type of thing you are up against.


 
All very childish, this is a public forum, are you are a moderator that you can pick and choose what you don't agree with and then move around other threads.  My question was a genuine one, my nephew was not at a soccer camp!


----------



## ubiquitous (21 May 2007)

I'm not a moderator actually. I can't see what basis you have for labelling me as childish. Surely your nephew's case is directly relevant to the OP's query on this thread? I don't see much difference, except perhaps the setting...


----------



## May07 (21 May 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> I'm not a moderator actually. I can't see what basis you have for labelling me as childish. Surely your nephew's case is directly relevant to the OP's query on this thread? I don't see much difference, except perhaps the setting...


 
Actually the fact that the OP has gone to the bother of asking this question means he is acting in a responsible manner!  As you can see from the replies life isn't as straightforward as you seem to think, everyone needs insurance for all sorts of activities these days, you make it sound like anyone who makes a claim for insurance is on the take!


----------



## ubiquitous (21 May 2007)

May07 said:


> you make it sound like anyone who makes a claim for insurance is on the take!



Where did I say that?


----------



## May07 (21 May 2007)

This Thread was started by Bluespud regarding his concerns so I'm not getting into a tit for tat with you, your oponion on insurancs is obvious from your posts, your entitled to your oponion and I'm entitled to mine.


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> See http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=55164 for an example of the type of thing you are up against.


 
Scary, isn't it, and I am sure there are many that would not even ask if they had a leg to stand on, just jump straight in.

Shame really, I would hate to back out of this gig we organised as we have had almost 100% attendance since we started & the kids love it, even the ones that cant kick a ball.

Spoke to my solicitor & she said she would not like to advise me on the subject as she had no experience. What chance do you have.


----------



## Vanilla (21 May 2007)

I agree it is a shame that small events like this cannot take place without the inevitable worry over liability. 

I've often had clients come to me in the past about similar issues- from allowing something to take place on their land- to companies organising employees events- to this type of voluntary activity. My advice has always been the same- you could be held liable, so get insurance. If the insurance costs too much, then ask yourself do you want to put your house, your property on the line if one person decides to sue you.

The reality is that no solicitor will draft a disclaimer for you because one does not exist to cover the situation. If you do something negligent and because of that negligence someone is injured then you can be sued. Even where the negligence is questionable, you can still be sued- you might not be held liable, but do you want to face a few years of worry and legal bills before a court verdict?


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> The reality is that no solicitor will draft a disclaimer for you because one does not exist to cover the situation. If you do something negligent and because of that negligence someone is injured then you can be sued. Even where the negligence is questionable, you can still be sued- you might not be held liable, but do you want to face a few years of worry and legal bills before a court verdict?


 
Forgive my ignorence, but I dont know how any of us could be negligent. We are not adhering to any standards, and all of the parents are on the spot. If any of the helpers are being "negligent", they will be doing so under the glare of all the parents.


----------



## Vanilla (21 May 2007)

Where are you going to play? Will this area be safe? Will it conform to standards acceptable on a soccor pitch. Will you be providing safety equipment? Will you be ensuring that the children are wearing acceptable gear? Will you be ensuring that there is medical help on standby?

These are only the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

The game is billed as a knockabout, we will not be ensuring anything.  No more so that if a group of kids meet in the park for a kickabout, except better in that there will be parents present.

We are offering no expertise or guarentees, nada, nothing.


----------



## Vanilla (21 May 2007)

That doesnt matter. You are organising it, therefore you should ensure it is safe. If you do not, you are liable.


----------



## Flexible (21 May 2007)

Anything here that might be of benefit ? I am involved in a club myself and we use O Driscoll O Neill who are good when it comes to adult teams ( loss of earnings and so forth ). Can you get involved under the auspices of a local team ( pay membership ) and still do your own thing ?

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]


http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=43


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

Flexible said:


> Anything here that might be of benefit ? I am involved in a club myself and we use O Driscoll O Neill who are good when it comes to adult teams ( loss of earnings and so forth ). Can you get involved under the auspices of a local team ( pay membership ) and still do your own thing ?
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> ...


 
Thinking outside the box, you cant beat it. I will definatly look into this one. My lads are in a club, I will approach the club and see what happens.

Flexible thinking, Flexible.


----------



## BlueSpud (21 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> That doesnt matter. You are organising it, therefore you should ensure it is safe. If you do not, you are liable.


 
Regarding ensuring it is safe, it is on Co. Co. pitches, so I suppose that brings a certain level of assurance with it. It is supervised by a number of parents, mostly people with common sense.

My kids play in the nursery (development) section of a club, in a Co. Co. park, with a stream near by. We operate in a similar fashion, but without a stream. Better perhaps because with those Saturday games, the only people involved are a ref per game. We nominate linesmen as well as referees.

Vanilla, sorry but I sould like I am trying to convince myself to keep going where common sense might say drop it.


----------



## BlueSpud (25 May 2007)

Turns out that one of the dads in the group is involved in insurance, and has taken on the mantle.  As he said himself, insurance people tend to be more realistic than solicitors.  If he comes up with anything concrete, I can make it available if it is generally applicable, and if anyone is interested.


----------



## Vanilla (25 May 2007)

BlueSpud said:


> As he said himself, insurance people tend to be more realistic than solicitors.


 

Is that so?


----------



## BlueSpud (28 May 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Is that so?


 
I'm one of those people who believes the last thing they were told.......................


----------

