# Key Post:  House Building Direct Labour



## Elcato

I have just started a build and was wondering if it would be worth starting a thread on costs etc.

Foe example I have used fill at the following prices
4 inch down Euro 5 + vat per ton
sub soil euro 3 + vat per down

Digger driver + digger was euro 30 an hour + vat
1.2 ton roller was euro 300 a week inc vat

I am interested in prices for blocks, cement, insulation, labour etc


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## FDH

*House Building Direct Labour*

Hi ClareMan,

I'd definately be interested in listening to what you have to say about costings.  AAM is great for advice, but there is very little advice on selfbuilds via direct labour.

It's something that's happening more and more, and I feel a new topic / Main Category should be set up (Please AAM Admins  )

I'm Planning to self-build in Limerick next year, and would really appreciate if you could share any costings on AAM.

What type/size of house you building ?

Could you split it into phases:
Site Work :-
Foundations :-
First Floor Level   :-   etc...

I'm sure there'd be alot more interest, The Homes and Gardens sections is a good place to view this kinda info.

Regards,
FDH


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## Betsy Og

*costs*

about €1,200 for a radon barrier (probably worth it - especially if might ever sell).

Got brown woodgrain uPVC windows from Costellos about 7.5K (biggish house), including teak front door. Lot cheaper than anything else going.

Shop around is yer only man - golden rule !!

Velux windows were cheapest in Morans of Castleisland, about €250 a go including tile flashing (free delivery). 

McElligotts (also Castleisland) seem the best for bathroom fittings.

Drilling a well is about €2,250.


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## cushtie

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

Lads,

now were talking, I will be going down this road next year or year after so it is great to be able to get a feel for prices.

Keep em coming


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## Clare Man

*Concrete*

I have also been quoted 61 + vat (cubic meter) for concrete for the foundation

Blocks at about 480 including vat


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## waitAminute

*stop - this a good idea*

we could have a building project page whe people doing building projects could pout up ongoing prices for comparison
It beats - get 3 quotes rule.
wat


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## legend99

*..*

Sites guys///did you buy through an auctioneer...does the concept of people approaching land owners such as farmers exist?


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## cushtie

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

When we were buying the site we initially saw the site advertised (sign on the ditch) but knew a fella from the area so was asking him about it, turns out he was very good friends with the farmer selling it so he kind introduced me to him and we dealt directly with each other after that. 

Ended up buying more than the site but thats a story for another day!!!

When we were looking I remember stopping the car and getting out to ask a fella mowing his lawn if he knew of any sites for sale in the area that wouldn't be advertised etc. next thing another of his neigbour pulls up and before you know it I have a list of about 10 different people that might be interested in selling a site. 

so I suppose to answer your question yes the concept of people asking farmers directly does exist. another thing to consider is; if you see a recently built house in the area is to go and ask the people living there if they bought the site and if so could they give you the farmers name number - never know he might want to sell another one!


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## sinead76

*buying sites direct*

I bought my site direct from a farmer cos we knew of him and he lived up the road so we kind of introduced ourselves to him.  The other advantage to buying direct is that you can hand a few grand under the table thus avoiding stamp duty and the farmer avoids some CGT but we didn't risk it with this fella cos he's a bit of a chancer.

The biggest advantage is that we were able to name our price. We had heard on the grapevine that the man was in a bit of trouble so we approached him and said "how about we give you €30,000 for that site down there and he thought all his christmases had come together.

At the moment I'm trying to get a garage built, base is down, concrete poured etc. 
Anyone know the going rate for a blocklayer?  I'm talking about a cash job here, maybe some fella doing a nixer?  One person quoted me 90c per block


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## rainyday

*Re: buying sites direct*



> The other advantage to buying direct is that you can hand a few grand under the table thus avoiding stamp duty and the farmer avoids some CGT but we didn't risk it with this fella cos he's a bit of a chancer.


Hi Sinead - This isn't 'avoiding' tax. This would be evading tax.


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## Aphrodite

*Give it a rest*

Rainyday

This self-righteous "pay your tax, all the tax" crap is becoming a little bit fatiqued, wouldn't you agree.

I think most of the regular visitors here have got your message by now. Personally and professionally I have long since been weary of those who proclaim to be camping out permanently on the high moral ground.

Its very clear where you stand on this subject so just give the preaching a rest.


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## purple

*a nod and a wink*



> Its very clear where you stand on this subject so just give the preaching a rest.


Yea rainyday, give it a rest. Next thing you will be giving out about people who rob banks and defraud insurance companies and saying that's wrong as well!
Sure if the government got it they would only waste it on education or hospitals or the like, better off in your pocket Aphrodite, why should you pay your way, sure everyone else can do that for you, right? 


> Personally and professionally I have long since been weary of those who proclaim to be camping out permanently on the high moral ground.


 While I concede that rainyday has a better view than the rest of us, I don't think that pointing out that someone is advising a criminal act constitutes "camping out permanently on the high moral ground."



> you can hand a few grand under the table thus avoiding stamp duty and the farmer avoids some CGT but we didn't risk it with this fella cos he's a bit of a chancer.


 Is that what they call irony?


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## rainyday

*Re: a nod and a wink*

Hi Aphrodite - You obviously didn't notice the subtle change of focus in my post. I didn't say 'pay all your taxes'. I simply pointed out that the course of action recommended by Sinead would constitute tax evasion.

So rather than try to 'change the world' and get everyone in Ireland paying their rightful taxes, I've refocused myself to simply 'change the attitude of the world', i.e. eliminate the nod/wink attitude to tax evasion in Ireland.


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## delaneyd159

*Re: a nod and a wink*

Everyone shut up about the tax crap.  We all know the arguments - and we all make our mind up how we act legally and morally!  Leave this post alone so people can give advice about building costs etc.


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## FDH

*Blocklayer 90Cent*

Hi Sinead - I've not been doing any serious pricing yet, but 90c sounds really cheap.
I've recently spoke to someone who was quoted 1.80 a block.  (A bit High I think)

The avereage seems to be around 1.20 (limerick).
It all depends on who's laying them, and what your building.

90 cent sounds really good - Is he a cowboy ? ask for references, go see his prev work, call to house and ask owners about him ?
Ask locally about him, sometimes references can be staged, and you could be taking to one of his mates.  Also he'll only give you names of satisfied customers.

AAM - Alot of posts
Regards,
FDH.


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## cushtie

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*



> Everyone shut up about the tax crap. We all know the arguments - and we all make our mind up how we act legally and morally! Leave this post alone so people can give advice about building costs etc.



Well said, lets keep the Tax Evasion / Avoidance stuff for LOS etc.

Anyway I had to buy some slate the other day, just 15 slates (for a small job) came to €26 so that makes it €1.70 + per slate.

I'd say you would get them at around €1.30 to  €1.50 if you were buying enough for the whole roof, that was Chadwicks BTW.


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## Bill

*House costs*

A friend of mine just got a couple of quotes for a plasterer for his 3000 sq ft house of between €16k and €18k. Sounds expensive to me.. 
On the blockwork side 4 years ago it used to be a £1 per block and now it's around €1.30-1.50 a block , about right..
Keep these posts coming, it's great info for someone like me who's building in the near future, anyone got prices for plumbers and electricians..??


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## Dancork

*Question*

Would you people reckon I'd build a decent size house for say 150 -160k, not including price of site


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## murray

*building a house*

Dancork,
We'll be starting to clear our site in a couple of weeks and are planning to build 1800 sq. ft. for 160,000.  We don't have anyone in the trade to do us 'favours' and we are going to have geothermal heating which is included in the price.   This works out at 89 euro per sq. foot.


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## Clare Man

*Blocks*

I have worked out my blocks based on 

10 blocks per m2
double this if a cavity wall,

I understand that window openings are included in the overall area.

The only quote I have for my estimated 9,000 is 15,000 euro + vat.

Any body know how to estimate a roof, i not really sure how to start?


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## Dancork

*Self build*

Thanks Murray,

We'd be in same boat. may have one or two contacts in the trade but not many. Havent even go site yet so its a bit down the line


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## FDH

*Dan Cork: bit steep*

ClareMan,

9000 blocks for €15k +Vat - I'm presuming that is that including labour ?


My brother in law build a garage a few weeks back via direct labour, and his blocks were 60 cent each.

As for roofing estimation - that's a tough one, I've asked people advice on this, and I've been told that the best way is to ask around, bring plans and ask for written quotation.


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## Betsy Og

*should do*

DanCork,

You should get a house built for that. Ours is 2700 sq ft, - a bit bigger than you need to be honest

60k timber frame
110k builder (incl. plumbing, elctrical etc. etc.)
windows 7.5K
Misc. 8k (say, for bathroom fittings etc.)

just over 185. Going all block will probably save you as well - though, in theory, timberframe compensates you in the long run. 

Munster Area

will take a lot to decorate & funish but by degrees !!


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## jock04

*House building direct labour*

Great topic. I see in some of the posts though that a cost for "builders" is included. Wonder how much can be saved by hiring tradespeople direct. anyone have any info?


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## FDH

*Jock*

People have told me they saved 30 Percent.

It really depends, you could save say 20 percent, but you could have used better material, and have a better quality house & Finishes. 

It's your own choice really. but 20-30 percent is what I'm hoping for.

Drop you plans to a few builders and get some detailed quotes. Compare them to the average Price per square foot for you area - There's a quick estimate..


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## Clare Man

*Blocks*

Not including labour and I have had another quote of 22,000 not including labour.
They both stated its a complex build (i.e. not a rectangular block) and this is the reason for the quote.

The first quote did include their own scaffolding which they would erect themselfs and I have been told this would save me 1,500 approx. Anybody have any prices on scaffolding hire/erection?


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## Clare Man

*Blocks*

IOn the 22,000 quote I meant not including blocks


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## D

*Price*

Im going to be building a house over the next year or so in the Cavan\Monaghan area of the country, it'll be approx. 2500 sq ft and im going to do it by direct labour.  As i dont have a clue of these things, would a mortgage of approx. 150,000 euro be enough to build this !!??


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## FDH

*ClareMan*

HI ClareMan,

RE: Scaffolding.

I've heard of someone buying an old set of scaffolding, and selling it on after the build for the price they paid for it.


D - That's a big house, I'd say you be getting very close there.  It all depends on the house your building & the finishes you want.

That's 60 euro per squared foot. It all depends on the average for you location.


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## Clare Man

*Costing (Comments welcome)*

Hi D 
Here are my original costings for a 2500 square foot/ quality material etc

Item&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Cost (inc VAT)
Excavation/Backfill/land grading &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €20,000.00
Foundation/Structural Raft&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp              €30,000.00
Sewer treatment plant + installation&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €5,000.00
Precast concrete second floor&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €7,000.00
Walls (Insulation, Blocks,Lintels + Sills+ Labour)           &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp                                         €30,000.00
Roofing/Flashing/Ventilation&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €35,000.00
Windows/Conservatory/Skylights (Velux) &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp             €25,000.00
Gutters/Downspouts&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €5,000.00
Fireplace/Stove/Insert&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,500.00
Oil Tank + Boiler&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,500.00
Plumbing and Trim Fixtures&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €8,000.00
Underfloor Heating&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €8,000.00
Electrical and Trim Fixtures&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €8,000.00
Exterior\Interior Doors /Trim/Hardware&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €4,000.00
Plastering Interior + Exterior&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €10,000.00
Paint Interior/Exterior (materials only)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,000.00
Built in robes&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €3,000.00
Floor Coverings&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €10,000.00
Kitchen + Appliances&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €8,000.00
Bathroom + Accessories&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,500.00
Pavements&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,500.00
Landscaping (Materials only)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp €2,000.00


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## Betsy Og

*bit high?*

Sounds a bit high Clareman.

I've 2700 timberframe, maybe 80% built, not direct labour, should be less than 200K (not including decoration & furnishing)

Generally better to work with a high estimate re negotiating loan facility etc. but wouldnt think a 2500 should come to that, esp. if going direct labour.


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## cushtie

*Re: bit high?*

Clareman,

are they definite quotes of are they estimates that you have made yourself (and deliberately high so as you won't be caught short). As another poster said it seems a bit on the high side, then again I suppose it depends on the finish etc

€20K for the excavation etc seems very high, or are you taking into account special site conditions?


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## Ros Man

*Self Build*

Clare man

Am doing a self build in Roscommon at the moment, your quotes seem a bit on the high side.  Also going for the hollow core floor and for a 2,600sq house have been quoted €5,000 from a crowd in mullingar, but Quinns in Fermanagh quoted Stg1,800 which will work out cheaper and they can get it to me sooner.  Block work is working out at about €0.80 a block for the foundations and then about €1.10 for the main body of the house.  The reason for the price is the brother in law is an electrical contractor so he has got a few people like the block layer for a bit cheaper.

Blocks cost €380 per 1000 and concrete cost €54 a metre poured, these were prices got without favours.  Roofing, slates and 1st & 2nd fix of carpendery have been quoted at €9,500.  This is the cash price as to quote the man involued "the only problem is I only do cash jobs."

Just one piece of additional advice, when you start the build open at least 2 accounts with builders merchants that deliver and when you need small items like cement etc ring both up and play one off against the other. You will be amazed at the differences in prices and how quickly you can get a further reducion if you quote the price the "crowd up the road" have given you. 
Thats all I have priced at this time, but will post any more I get, would like to see this post continuing as there are plenty of people out their with information on where to source materials etc at reasonable prices.


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## FDH

*ClareMan*

That's 230,000 for a 2500 sq foot house.
That's 92 euro per sq foot.

The average around limerick/clare seems to be in around 70 - Custhie is right, unless you have expensive finishes / serious site excavation issues then you are definately overestimating.

You mentioned that your blocks are very unusual, thus why so expensive - price around was it 

Who are you getting the precast  first floor done by ?
How are you managing piping and electrics ?
Do you have to put a layer of cement over the slabs ?


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## Arrowmania

*Self Build*

I have been quoted €130,000 for building the shell of my house (3,200 sq.ft)

This includes all materials (Hallmark stone @ €36 per M) and concrete, blocks, roof timber and slates and labour to construct. This will leave the shell of the house built and roofed but with no plastering or inside work done.

The labour for blocklaying is working out at €27,000 to build the stone and €9,000 for the block work. The hallmark costs €60 per M (through window openings) to build.

I had budgeted for €250,000 to finish the house with underfloor heating and heat pump installed (€20,000 worth).

Can I do it or am I mad??


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## Betsy Og

*Mucho Grande Casa*

I'm forever getting ribbed by my builder & the guys he's getting about how big the house is at 2700 (though you'd think they like the work!!), so I'd say you're in for a good bit of abuse re how bit the house is at 3,200 !! 
;-)

Think you wont be much under the 250K but probably doable


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## Clare Man

*Prices*

These were my prices/guestamates for the bank, but the feedback makes me feel a lot safer. I knew they were mostly on the highside but said I would work a figure based on a %60 Loan value ratio.

The biggest problem is actually getting somebody to quote for the jobs, I am not sure if everbody else's experience but the building inductry in the midwest is mad. I have had a few trades people say things like "yes but only after December".


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## Clare Man

*Blocks prices*

Ros Man thoses block prices are excellent I assume it not through roadstone , or any national supplier.


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## Ros Man

*Block Prices*

Clare Man

Believe it or not, thoses prices are thru Roadstone and there is no cash involued either, there are quiet a few quarries & block companies in the area so the market is competitive here in the mid west region.

Ros man


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## Clare Man

*Blocks*

Thanks Ros Man,
I have a quote in my hand from roadstone of 
415euro / 1000 + vat

So I will be on to them on Monday for a chat I think, there is obviously room to move.


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## Clare Man

*concrete*

Ros Man,
Was the concrete spec 30N20


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## FDH

*ClareMan :  Info on Concrete First Floor.*

Hi Clareman - Can you give some info on the Precast concrete first floor.

Who did you get quote off ?
Do they install ?
Do you have to put a concrete screed on top ?
How are you managing services / Pipes / Wires ?

Do you have to put you support blocks on the side to take the weight ?

Cheers,
FDH.


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## jock04

*FDH, also architects fees*

First of all, thanks to FDH for the info ref employing direct labour.
This is a very useful topic. If it helps anyone who hasn't started yet, I was quoted a shade under €3K for Architects fees, to include drawings, all planning application work, site surveys, soil testing etc. Seems a little steep, but I'm assured my man is very thorough & will see the job right through, as he is also qualified to sign off stages as complete for the mortgage lender.
Are these costs fairly typical?


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## Clare Man

*precast*

Who did you get quote off ? Whelans

Do they install ? They come and measure then install with a mobile crane 

Do you have to put a concrete screed on top ? yes

How are you managing services / Pipes / Wires ?
Not sur yet 

Do you have to put you support blocks on the side to take the weight ?
I have sent them the plans and I will need some RSJ's over some of the windows but thats all


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## eamonn66

*precast floors*

to add to clare mans post, you submit your plans to the supplier and they their engineers advise you of any changes you need to make to your plans  / specific screeding requirements etc.  you normally plan upfront where you will need service holes etc and these are then cut out for you. this usually costs per hole as the process eats up expensive blades .
1 thing that might be an issue is the fitting of recessed light fittings . im not sure how  / if that can be gotten around


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## FDH

*Recess Lights*

Thanks Eamonn / ClareMan,

Has anyone gotton around recess lights on the underneath of a concrete first floor ?


Thanks,
FDH.


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## Ros Man

*Concrete Spec*

Clare man

Yes the concrete spec was for 30N20, which I believe is what you put into the foundation, well its in mine now.

Also got quote from Whelans for the hollow core floor, they are competitive but they quoted me a lead time of 12 weeks and from a reliable source I believe this is more like 14-15 weeks which is quite a wait.


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## kfpg

*Recess Lights*

I plan to do this underneah concrete hollowcore.

My understanding is you need to double batten on the underside of the precast floor. Double batten is to allow a sufficient gap between plasterboard sheets and concrete to fit the back of the spot and allow room for electrical connections, transformers etc, a single batten only wont achieve this.

After fixing battens I think the elec cable is routed around the ceiling leaving connection tails at the appropriate spotlight points. The second (lower) batten gets a notch cut out of it in the appropriate places to fit the cable around the ceiling neatly and allow the plasterboard to be fixed up to the ceiling flush with the battens with no issue of squashing cables. The last part obviously is marking the plasterboard in the right place to fit the light and match up with the elec cable positions.

I haven't done this yet so am open to correction but it does seem to make sense to me.


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## SteveO

*Breakdown of process up to where Brickie comes in.*

Great Post lads - Keep it going..

Question for Clareman - Did you get back onto roadstone ? did they drop the price of €415 / 1000 ?

Can anyone have a guess of cost to clear a flat 1/2 acre site, dig out foundations, and lay foundations up to the point where the blocklayers come in ?

Estimate :-
Clear Site =
Dig Foundations =
Lay foundations =

It's for a standard 2100 sq foot house.

Can anyone give a brief outline as the what has to be done to get to this point ?  Kinda like a simple step by step up to where the Blocklayer comes in ....

I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.
SteveO


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## jister

*Cost of stairs*

Does anybody have prices for a stairs, either a basic straight one or one with a 3/4 landing, different materials etc.?


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## FDH

*Jister & SteveO*

I'm estimating About €1500 - €2000 for a standard red deel stairs.

SteveO - Good question.  
I'm in a similare situation to you.

I'm not much use to you, someone else out there might be able to help you ?
I'd be interested in seeing an answer to it too.

Can anyone give a quick breakdown of getting a site to DPC level ? & a rough estimate.


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## kfpg

*Cremin Tanks*

Anyone out there got any experience or feedback regarding Cremin Tanks. I have come across them on a few sites and on their own site oxyvent.ie they claim they are the best thing since........

Just to explain the claim is that all heating systems inherently generate air and this causes inefficiency, the cremin tank supposedly removes all the air making heating systems '30% more efficient', sppeds up flow rates and therefore response times in underfloor heating systems, prolongs boiler / pump life etc etc

I can buy the theory, anyone know anymore about this. It seems to cost around € 490.


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## housey

*Cremin Tanks*

Re underfloor heating, is this a good job.  Thought about getting this done in Co. Donegal, asked a reputable plumber who does both rads and underground (with pipes underneath soil), he wouldn't recommend underfloor, too costly, not enough heat from soil to keep house warm, needed to have oil tank as well for heating.
Any comments greatly appreciated.


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## legend99

*..*

I was mad for the Cremin tank. Even got the builder within my estate on the case and they agreed to meet your man Cremin. The plumber on the estate said to me after that he didn't think it was worth fitting in your standard 3/4 bed estate house. He said it was worth only really if you had a very large house, or if for example you had a house where some of the rads would be very far away from the boiler. For example a bungalow 50 feet wide, with the boiler at the back corner end and rads at the other end.


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## murray

*foundations*

SteveO,
I have just got a quote for the foundations for our 1800 sq.ft house on a half-acre.  There is a lot of rock to be blasted first as well as road to be built.  The price is 10,000 and this will only bring it up to the raft stage.  Anyone know how much building a raft will cost?
M.


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## underground

*its recent, thats the biggest problem.*

the underground system (aka heat exchanger aka thermal sink ) and underfloor combination works fine but you should dryline as well as cavity insulate the outside walls , you should do that with oil too. consider triple and not double glazing too. 

remember that a wooden floor over underfloor is a bit daft because wood is an insulator so use thinnish wood 12- 15mm not 20-25mm thick floorboards.   

lots of plumbers hate underfloor because they get blamed if it goes wrong (like bursts) , it does sometimes but the insurance does not penalise you for having it so what the feck


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## underground

*floor slabs*

why hollow ?

solid slabs are cheaper and work just fine


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## Clare Man

*Cost of raft*

SteveO,
I have been quoted 10,000 for a raft not including concrete or vat


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## kfpg

*Precast Floors & Structural Screed*

Just to go back to this topic, would appreciate anyones advice and or explanations as to what is required and involved in putting a structural screed at first floor level on top of precast concrete hollow core slabs.

Is it just mesh laid out across the entire area with a 3 inch depth of concrete poured.

Do internal walls get built after and on top of the structural screed?...............


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## Pieree

*Plastering*

How do plasterers charge  ??
Per metre/yard.
Amount Cement
Time..

What are the typical costs


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## cushtie

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

I know there is a Key post already on Building Houses but this one seems to contain more relevent information.

Would it be possible for a moderator / administrator to add this as a key post also.


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## FDH

*Please give us what we want  ??*

Hi Cushtie,

I'd love to see a "SelfBuild" or "Building" forum Topic on the main AAM list.

If a Pre-budget 2005 forum can be setup then why not a "SelfBuild" forum ?

This thread is in "Mortgages & House Buying" which it prob would be more suited in "Homes & Gardens".
But having said that I think that H&G's wouldn't directly spring to peoples minds when looking for selfbuild advice.

Moderators - Please would you consider setting this up ?

The fact that this Thread has grown so much, shows the need/demand for such a forum.

Regards,
FDH.


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## cushtie

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

I'm not sure if this question was asked before on this thread but I was wondering how do you normally calculate square footage in a dormer. In a two storey it is simply the ground floor area X2. is it the same for a dormer / story and a half.

EG in a Dormer where your ground floor is 1350 sq feet what is the total square footage?


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## sunnyday

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

Great thread! 
As regards recessed lights under the concrete floor, don't these need 6 inches or more of clearance above them for heat dissapation? If so, you'd need 3 inch batons, and how do you fix them to the concrete ceiling? You could use the latest CFL type recessed lights which should be cooler, but can't be dimmed.

To any of you who have actual experience of building a quality house with a budget lower than Clareman's, I take my hat off.


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## furiousHarry

*Re: House Building Direct Labour*

If you find that this thread has been interested you, and you would like to see a new forum *Self-Build / HomeBuild / Sites*
then now is your chance to get it.

I've requested it in the new "feedback" section and the Administrators are unsure as to whether there is enough of a demand.

If you want it - then Post your opinion on the thread linked below.



I'd like to see more on selfbuilds including prices & advice.  There is an all round void out there containing such info.

Regards,
Harry / FDH.


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## cushtie

Well lads, (and lassies) I am waiting on the planning permission so have decided to really start looking at the prices of things.
has anyone done a list of everything that they are going to buy/cost

this is my attempt so far any additions and comments welcome.

Well Boring / Pump
ESB Connection
Digger / Dump Truck for site excavation /preparaton
Gravel / Hardcore for site
Foundations Labour
Foundations Materials i.e DPC,DPM, Readymix, Radon Barrier, Blocks, Cement, Sand, Insulation 
Groundworks Labour
Groundworks Materials
    Electrician
    Carpenter 
    Roofer
    Plumber
    Plasterer.
    TImber
    Blocks
    Slates
    Bricks
    Drains & chutes
   Insulation
   Window Sills
   Windows
   Chimney stacks
   Driveway
   Gates
   Paths
   Heating
   Radiators
   Hot tank
   Light fittings
   Sockets
   Skirting boards / Architraves
   Flooring (wooden, flagstones & tiles)
   Front door
   Internal doors
   Patio doors
   Fire place sitting room
   Kitchen stove
   Stairs
   showers
   toilets
    washand basins
    bath
   Kitchen units
   Utility units and sink
   Kitchen table and chairs
   Cooker
   Fridge
   Washing machine
   Dryer
   Dishwasher
   Suite furniture for sitting room
   Curtins and poles throughout


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## sunnyday

Damn good initial list! A few additions, maybe relevent;

Facia&Soffet
Quoins
Wardrobes
Mirrors for bathrooms
Extractor fans for bathrooms
Attic ladder
Outdoor tank for the heating (?)
Kerbing
Landscaping/planting
For showers, include trays&doors?
Alarm
TV feed eg. aerial, satellite
Phone
Development contribution (?)
Paint and/or decorator
Coving
Sand&Cement


If I think of more I'll edit the post!


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## harto1

Build insurance
Sewage - Septic tank/Waste treatment/connection to council system
Scaffolding
Dry lining / plasterboard
Fencing
Fixings and fasteners
Garage
Skip hire
Velux lights ?
Doorbell


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## jmc

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

I am planning to start building in county galway in the next few months and my engineer has told me it will be €120 per sq. foot to finish the house. I have asked some people building at the moment if this is accurate and they reckon its more like €80\sq foot?

Also the enginneer is charging me around €4500 for everything, surveying, drawing up plans, site layouts and applying for the PP....is this expensive or what I should expect to pay?


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## Bill2

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

On a related topic, i am building a 2700 sq ft house shortly and have been getting quotes from Timber frame companies for the supply and erect, they are all coming in around €60k give or take a few thousand, so no real winner there, what i'm looking for is feedback from folks that have used these companies in the past, (i've gotton quotes from all the main ones..)good and/or bad experiences, any unusual things occur, or disputes over extras etc.. I'm building in the midlands..
thanks in advance


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## Betsy Og

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

With timberframers, its all in the erecting crew, they are mainly subbies, and being subbies they aint too bothered. Get a couple of good carpenters of your own to do it if at all possible, you get charged over the odds for the erecting and as I said the quality may not be good.

Getting your own guys to erect it also saves the haggling over who was supposed to do what, e.g. grounds for plasterboard& rads (grounds are extra bits of timber nailed onto the partition to support plasterboard or radiators etc. try to think where you'll need them - plenty of them in bathrooms & kitchen for all the fittings and maybe if going to have  TV stands in the top corner of a room), finishing around dormers etc. etc.

Watch valley rafters (where the roof meets in a "V" running down from the top of the roof to the gutter) to ensure are done well, i.e. maybe ask for them to be doubled up - no shortage of timber when buiilding timberframe, dont spare it. Also the valley boards on the roof where the lead will go, make sure are plenty wide to take the lead, also ensure are solid i.e. not "spongy" to walk on or press - this is because they have to take the weight of lead and water or maybe snow/ice, you dont want sagging to result in leaks in your roof.

lastly - get a bitchy engineer, they may need to kick butt if its not going well


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## Galwayman

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*



			
				jmc said:
			
		

> I am planning to start building in county galway in the next few months and my engineer has told me it will be €120 per sq. foot to finish the house. I have asked some people building at the moment if this is accurate and they reckon its more like €80\sq foot?
> 
> Also the enginneer is charging me around €4500 for everything, surveying, drawing up plans, site layouts and applying for the PP....is this expensive or what I should expect to pay?


 
Just got planning in Galway, Engineer charged 3300 including VAT. Plans for Raft 650, 2500 for site visits and signoff, don't know if this is before or after VAT.


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## Galwayman

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

Can anyone provide me with a cost comparison between a raft and strip foundations. The site is fine so there is now particular need for a raft.


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## npgallag

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

BILL2... Im using century homes at the moment and find there sales dept. are not very good ...espically when building a 1 off house..have been waiting a month for delivery of frame. The blame for wait would be 50% century and 50% builder. Hopefully will get it next week. I picked century because site near there factory and builder can pick frame up himself as there artic would not get down my lane....IJM and Clarks both cheaper but when put in all extras pricese fairly similar. 
Galwayman....My raft foundation cost nearly 10k extra than normal. If not needed then better to go with strip as raft is full of steel which has sky rocketed in price in the last 12 months...


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## Sue Ellen

*Re: >> House Building Direct Labour*

These two sites might be useful:

[broken link removed]

http://www.iaosb.com/


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## southeast30

Was charged €1 per sq ft for plans and planning application, (house is 2900 sq ft) thought it was pricey but there were a few site visits involved and meeting planners etc, got planning permission first time.
Local council looking for €3500, for what I dont know as all services will be on site, what are other county councils charging??


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## liamcunningh

Hi all,

I am currently self building my own house, nearly at the final stage!!
Early in the build I was informed by me stonemason that my bloklayers did not put a dpc in the house. There is a radon barrier in place but no dpc above ground level (150mm above ground level). I asked my engineer about this and he said it would be okay as the radon barrier acts a dpc, and just to make sure to put my path level below radon level. He also said that putting a dpc in place is just like wearing two c*ndoms! You are being extra safe!! Has anyone got any thoughts on this? I am worried about rising damp in the future.....

Thanks,


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## techman

I am not an engineer but from what I know about building you have been told a pack of lies by your engineer. You must have a dpc. The radon barrier may have some dpc qualities but the engineer hasn't done his job re. supervision. Neither have the blocklayers.

Don't know what you can do now though?


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## paulocon

Excellent Thread and very useful..

I am thinking of putting together an online price-comparison database as, having gone down the self-build road myself, I'm aware of the lack of a central resource of info..

If anyone has any ideas on this, drop me a line..


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## MOB

I think the post about needing dpc may be incorrect.  I am not an expert, but here is an excerpt from one supplier's website (ballytherm.ie)

"To protect building occupants from risk of harm, buildings in at-risk areas must include Radon protection measures*. The minimum measure will be the provision of a Radon barrier across the entire footprint of the building.The detailing of the barrier will depend upon the floor construction, but in many cases one membrane can act as damp-proof membrane (DPM) and Radon barrier. "

Here is an excerpt from an IAB (Agrement) certificate for another product:

"Protech Regular 870 Radon Resisting Membrane, when installed in accordance with this Certificate, will also act as a damp proof membrane to protect the building against the ingress of moisture from the ground."

Incidentally, making allowances for my ignorance, I think a DPC is the strip inserted into a row of blockwork, while the DPM is the all-over membrane.  I am not sure, therefore, if my point above is wholly correct.

So I guess it depends on the product and how it is installed.

The correct installation of DPM is absolutely crucial in a timber frame house.  If you have rising damp in a concrete block, you have an unsightly nuisance.  If you have rising damp in a timber frame, you have a structural problem.


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## hacker

We are at the block stage of a self build and the best €170 we spent was for a quantity survey of materials needed.  We did this with Wallaces Wellington bridge, Wexford.  My brother had done the same thing and found it great. They give a list of materials needed for each building stage and breakdown the costs.  You dont have to get your materials from them but they are good to deal with.

Hacker.


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## paulocon

"I'd love to see a "SelfBuild" or "Building" forum Topic on the main AAM list.

If a Pre-budget 2005 forum can be setup then why not a "SelfBuild" forum ?"

Hi all,

Just on the back of this, I have set up a self-build forum which is available at
www.selfbuildinireland.com/forum

Literally just setup so open to suggestions as regards categories etc... 
Obviously, pretty empty at the moment but hopefully over time, it'll become a useful resource...


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## redape

*Overall cost of self-build*

Good to see some detailed costs here. I "have" to move back to Dublin in a few months (as in "the girlfriend's from Dublin and is going back with or without me!") but am having real problems with the price of property. The self-build thing is really growing in my mind as the only way that I would be happy paying double the mortgage I am in the UK. 

So, sorry for the vague question, but would it be feasible to buy a nice site within decent commuting distance of Dublin of less than 150k then build a nice place for less than 200K total ? 

Cheers.


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## paulocon

redape,

Chances of finding a site for 150k within 'decent' commuting distance from dublin are very slim.. You are looking at counties Louth, Meath, Kildare or Wicklow. While you may find sites in and around 150k in these counties, chances are that they will have Local Needs Requirements in place for planning purposes.

I've seen sites in Meath with full unrestricted planning go on the market at 450K!!


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## redape

Thanks paulocon... maybe I could buy the land and camp on it.


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## eljay

Help! It may seem obvious to you, but I am not clear if the "square footage" of a house cost is the gross-footprint (external measurement) of the house, or the summation of all the individual rooms?

Can anyone enlighten me please?

Thanks

eljay


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## cruchan09

Redape,

Carlow has good sites and (relatively) cheap building costs. Depends whether or not it is close enough to Dublin for you. If you work in west Dublin then it's not bad. Sites get progressively cheaper as you move away from Carlow town and Dublin. Around Tullow (one hour to Rathcoole / Tallaght) you will get a site for €100-150k. Planning can be an issue but old houses / ruins on land are commonly for sale - see [broken link removed]




I bought a 1.2 acre site near Tullow and built a 2,700sq ft house including full fit out and garage for a total of approx. €360k.


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## paddyd

paulocon said:


> Excellent Thread and very useful..
> 
> I am thinking of putting together an online price-comparison database as, having gone down the self-build road myself, I'm aware of the lack of a central resource of info..
> 
> If anyone has any ideas on this, drop me a line..


 


I think that there has been a definite slacknig in the builder prices for selfbuild projects. recently got a price for a quality finish of €71 sq.ft. Unbelievable. The builder said it was a 'local' price, as the site is close-by his base. 
Seemingly, builders have been looking to fill their pipeline as the building of estates will not continue at the same pace.


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## lorna

paddyd, we are experiencing much more competitive quotes for self build at the moment compared to this time last year.  i had guessed this was going to be the case so didn't start build last year.  
apparently building work has really tailed off in Co. Cavan and the guys from this area are scouting for work all over the Midlands.  we even had a call from my bro-in-law in ireland saying a builder was enquiring about our build plans as he is short on work and would do a good price !  we are going to hold out for good rates.


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## pyramid

Paddyd, what part of the country are you in? 71 euro/sq.ft is very reasonable! I recently got a qoute of 120 euro/sq ft for a 2000 sq.ft timber frame dormer bungalow. Everything included except the kitchen and the painting!

Thanks

Ray


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## Kmac

i've


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## Kmac

i've just been reading over the posts on this thread and would anybody here not consider going to a Quantity Surveyor with house plans and getting a full breakdown of the costs (be it direct labour) before starting on site?? believe me its worth it in the long term. the cost savings would greatly outweight the QS fee!!


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## paddyd

County Kilkenny.
Brother used this builder for a 400 sq.ft extension last year for €80 sq.ft, which is also very good for an extension, which can usually attract a premium.

€71 sq.ft is nearly cost price I'd say. I can't imagine we'll see anyone drop into the 60's. To be honest, you WANT your builder to make a few quid on the build, otherwise he won't give it the attention that you'd like, so no point in beating them to a pulp on price TOO much. 
(How else will his plumber and electrician afford their next X5!)


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## newlywed

just wondering if anyone has an excel spreadsheet done up on this that others could utilise


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## bobster2543

Hi Iam building a timber frame house from IJM 2500sq feet i am hopping the cost we be about 180k. so far i have spent
20k raft
49k timber kit with stairs internal partion, floor,s plasterboard and roof trusses.
6k 14 windows black on white pvc plus front back doors.
3k fees 
2k water
6k felt and slates

I have had a quote for felting ,battening and slating roof ect of 6500 euro
for fitting about 4200 slates. Is this a good quote? 

Thanks bob
If you have any questions on building a timber frame please ask i am also a second fix joiner , i have just moved here from scotland where timber frame is the majority of new builds, about 80%
​


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## pudzer

Hi PaddyD,

I am also in Co. Kilkenny and about to embark upon a self-build.  I would love to contact your builder to get a quote if you don't mind parting with such infomation?

Thanks a million!
Pudzer


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## Wicklow

*Re: Precast Floors & Structural Screed*



kfpg said:


> Just to go back to this topic, would appreciate anyones advice and or explanations as to what is required and involved in putting a structural screed at first floor level on top of precast concrete hollow core slabs.
> 
> Is it just mesh laid out across the entire area with a 3 inch depth of concrete poured.
> 
> Do internal walls get built after and on top of the structural screed?...............


 

The sheets of mesh need to be 'lapped' over each other, generally up to 300mm, but make sure that this lap doesnt become too high resulting in loss of concrete cover. 3 inch / 75mm is the normal depth.
As for the walls, they can be built on the screed, provided the slab & screed were designed to take their load.


----------



## B&T

Hi There, 
This is the first time posting, so I'm not sure if I'm posting in the correct area. I am planning a self build home and have  questions on possible additional costs to my project. 
I plan to build on a sheltered site that is reclaimed land. Gravel had been used from the land and reinstated with 2-3 ft topsoil. However it looks very wet and not well drained(lack soil underneath). I know farm machines have had problems on the same plot. 
Questions are:
How much could this end up costing to make sure theres enough backfill/rough fill and stability for block lorries , concrete lorries to be safe to travel onsite?
If anyone here has had foundations piledriven how much should I estimate for this? I assume It may need this type of support.
Does a timberframe home(being lighter i assume) need pile driven support as much as Concrete home?
Does a floating foundation increase significantly to the base of a house. 

Any answers on the above are appreciated


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## Jock04

bobster2543 said:


> I have had a quote for felting ,battening and slating roof ect of 6500 euro
> for fitting about 4200 slates. Is this a good quote?
> 
> Thanks bob
> ​





Bob

That quote sounds alright to me.
Always happy to help a Scot


----------



## masonchat

as a qualified mason (with merit i might add) this a rough guide for block prices in east cork area, prices do vary a little depending on the complexity of the house but in general,  dead work for footings 1.10/block  blockwork for house from floor to peaks  1.40/block is average  and all block layers charge through the opes eg doors and windows, this price includes all dpc's window cills and heads with the exception of cornered or conservatory window cills where they must be cut around steel frames, blockwork on timber frame houses range from 1.65 - 1.80/block  boundary walls 1.40/block  1.60/block if pointed work  1.80/if pointed on both sides  cavity blocks thats the ones with the hollow 1.80/block brickwork .90cent/brick


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## masonchat

just to add for small cash jobs garden walls etc  usually about 1euro/block cash for house 1.20/block


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## masonchat

soory  forgot add vat 13.5% to those prices, just saw an earlier person askin about dpc , if the blocklayer just forgot the dpc on the inside leaf of the house then you will probably be ok but the dpc should be there the radon often gets nicks, if they also put no dpc on the outside leaf then your footpath would have to be very low as the radon is in under floor and comes up out and over the block which holds in the floor and then goes down the face of that block so its actually 225mm below ur inside floor level


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## Liverpool

Check out [broken link removed] - has a cost estimator inbuilt for all types of work based on regions - only problem is doesent include VAT - I wonder why!!


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## kkelliher

To measure a roof just measure it as if your looking down on plan, this is how most roofers will charge. The cost of laying a slat is from €1-€2 depending on the type of slate (€1 for tegral etc up to €2 for natural.) this includes the battens and felt. 
There are 13-16 slates in a m2.
To measure the timber divide the length of your house by say 600mm. Round up and add one. this gives you the number of rafters. The rafter length will be a little over half the width of your house, say 1.2 times(remember builders dont do exact quantities, it takes too long and the difference is so small). 

Anyone doing a house i would advise getting a quantity surveyor (YES I AM ONE) to do all the quantities for you. Ths cost wil be nothing in comparison to the savings you will make buying everything yourself and employing directly. Shop around for a good one, they are also noway near as expesnive as Architects, Engineers etc but for self builders can help alot more.


----------



## wickla

http://self-build-in-ireland.blogspot.com/

I found this site handy and entertaining


----------



## ciara_woods

southeast30 said:


> Was charged €1 per sq ft for plans and planning application, (house is 2900 sq ft) thought it was pricey but there were a few site visits involved and meeting planners etc, got planning permission first time.
> Local council looking for €3500, for what I dont know as all services will be on site, what are other county councils charging??



We are building in templetown, co. louth and we are getting charged just under €5,000 for absolutely nothing.

We have bought the site with fpp, plans and foundations down (house is 3300sq ft) for €150,000, the best quote we've got for all the labour is €70k plus €450 per wk for a project manager as we both work long hours. we haven't got any quotes for materials yet but we have a Vat no so will save a bit, only have €170k in total after the site so I dont know if we'll finish it, but if we can get it weatherproof, we can do the rest bit by bit as we save.

Really nervous bout starting!


----------



## onq

ciara_woods said:


> We are building in templetown, co. louth and we are getting charged just under €5,000 for absolutely nothing.
> 
> We have bought the site with fpp, plans and foundations down (house is 3300sq ft) for €150,000, the best quote we've got for all the labour is €70k plus €450 per wk for a project manager as we both work long hours. we haven't got any quotes for materials yet but we have a Vat no so will save a bit, only have €170k in total after the site so I dont know if we'll finish it, but if we can get it weatherproof, we can do the rest bit by bit as we save.
> 
> Really nervous bout starting!



Some precautionary questions.

Have you seen a copy of the permission and its drawings at the Council offices?

If the foundations are already laid have you received a certificate from an engineer about their design and the groundsman/contractor about the built work?
Who actually installed the foundations and why was the project abandoned?
Is is just the strip or are the rising walls and the slab also in?

Specifically are you certain that; -


the foundations dimensions match the permission footprint
the foundation depth, design and concrete is all adeaquate.
all the rising wall pipe penetrations are in for the services
the radon gas barrier and the radon gas collector box and vent pipe are in
If problems exist with these elements they would be relatively easy to sort out now if notbut a lot harder to deal with later in the build.

ONQ.


----------

