# Landlord Raising Rent:So Im leaving, Now LL wont give deposit back.



## Radwanska (1 Apr 2008)

My situation is that my landlord wants to raise the rent on the apartment that i am renting from him from 700E to 800E. I cannot afford this rent increase so i told him that i would have to move out. He said fine, but he said i lose my deposit(800E). Am i righ to try and demand my deposit back? We dont have a contract or lease. Im not even sure hes registered landlord or paying tax.


----------



## GOBSTOPPER (1 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

He sounds like a thief ! You are entitled to your money back, so don't accept this ! www.prtb.ie contact these people and get advice on your rights before you do *ANYTHING.*


----------



## Radwanska (1 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



GOBSTOPPER said:


> He sounds like a thief ! You are entitled to your money back, so don't accept this ! www.prtb.ie contact these people and get advice on your rights before you do *ANYTHING.*


He said i have to give a months notice if i want to leave. I cant find anything online that says that a landlord cant increase rents and withhold deposit otherwise.


----------



## steph1 (1 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

As a matter of interest how much notice has he given about a rent increase.  Is he expecting this straightaway or is he giving you a month's notice.

He has no right to withold a deposit unless he has to repair or fix something that has got broken etc.


----------



## z103 (1 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

What I've noticed some tenants doing, if they pay in arrears (like most do) is not pay the last month's rent.


----------



## sam h (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

Do you pay your rent in advance or arrears?
How long have you been in the property?
Have you signed the PRTB forms which the landlord should have insisted on at the start of the tenancy?
Was there a contract?

I'm pretty sure he is not entitled to withhold the disposit except for breakages * rent arrears.  Contact Citizens Advice for some help.


----------



## shanegl (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



Radwanska said:


> He said i have to give a months notice if i want to leave. I cant find anything online that says that a landlord cant increase rents and withhold deposit otherwise.


 
He has to give you proper notice of a rent increase.


----------



## bankrupt (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



shanegl said:


> He has to give you proper notice of a rent increase.



Also, you are entitled to dispute the increase with the PRTB if you feel that it is excessive.


----------



## contractor (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



leghorn said:


> What I've noticed some tenants doing, if they pay in arrears (like most do) is not pay the last month's rent.



Yep and if you were my tenant you'd come home to find your stuff on the street and the locks changed.

You say you have no agreement?  Even verbal?  He sounds like a cowboy.  The usual contract would be for 12 month lease with a 6 month get out clause.  That means you can move out after 6 months with 1 months notice or wait until the term is finished.  Anything that breaches the contract will lose you your deposit, including breaching this agreement.  However no agreement, no lose of deposit.  You should point this out to him.


----------



## casiopea (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



contractor said:


> Yep and if you were my tenant you'd come home to find your stuff on the street and the locks changed.



That is common practice when there is no contract in place.  The landlord cant get too annoyed given that it was his responsibility to supply the contract.


----------



## contractor (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



> That is common practice when there is no contract in place. The landlord cant get too annoyed given that it was his responsibility to supply the contract.



You cannot tell the landlord you are not going to pay him your last months rent and expect him to let you sit there in his property with your feet up watching TV all smug and proud at how smart you are.  This will escalate and you'll be out of a home sooner than you think.  If there's a dispute you need to work it out.  

To be honest I don't think there is much you can do without a contract.  He has your deposit and with no agreement in place he can pretty much do what he likes.  You shouldn't have handed someone 700 euro with no signed agreement as to what it was for.  If I were you I'd just give him a months notice and move on.  And next time sign a contract!!


----------



## bankrupt (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



contractor said:


> To be honest I don't think there is much you can do without a contract.  He has your deposit and with no agreement in place he can pretty much do what he likes.  You shouldn't have handed someone 700 euro with no signed agreement as to what it was for.  If I were you I'd just give him a months notice and move on.  And next time sign a contract!!



If the tenancy is more than 6 months old then the tenant has strong protection in law (a part 4 tenancy).   The landlord is certainly not free to do what he likes, and your inference above that the OP could quickly see himself thrown out on the street is incorrect.  A landlord would be acting illegally to simply change the locks as you suggest.

It is wise to have a lease in place to provide stronger protection to the tenant but the new act provides reasonable protection in the absence of one.

OP - also consider contacting Threshold for more detailed advice (www.threshold.ie), they are very helpful.


----------



## Bronte (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

OP - it doesn't matter if you do not have a lease/contract.  Also it doesn't matter if he is registered with the PRTB or pays taxes from your point of view.  You've paid a deposit you're entitled to it back as long as you haven't damaged anything.  Can you give one months notice and leave?  I'm sure he has to give you proper notice of a rent increase in any case and if you don't accept it you should be able to give him notice.  The PRTB website will tell you.   They will also help you so why don't you call them that's what they're there for.  There are many threads here on AAM  on landlords/PRTB.  The PRTB seems to be very good at acting for tenants.


----------



## contractor (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



bankrupt said:


> If the tenancy is more than 6 months old then the tenant has strong protection in law (a part 4 tenancy).   The landlord is certainly not free to do what he likes, and your inference above that the OP could quickly see himself thrown out on the street is incorrect.  A landlord would be acting illegally to simply change the locks as you suggest.
> 
> It is wise to have a lease in place to provide stronger protection to the tenant but the new act provides reasonable protection in the absence of one.
> 
> OP - also consider contacting Threshold for more detailed advice (www.threshold.ie), they are very helpful.



There's no agreement as to what the 700 euro he handed over was for.  But glad to hear the tenant is protected from rogue landlords like this.  I was not suggesting that the landloard could legally turf him out.


----------



## MrMan (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



> Yep and if you were my tenant you'd come home to find your stuff on the street and the locks changed.



As other people have said it is you that would find yourself in trouble no matter how right you were. The other problem is that rarely will a tenant let you know that they are going to not pay the last months rent its usually a drawn out practice.

OP do you have a rent book?


----------



## robd (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



Radwanska said:


> My situation is that my landlord wants to raise the rent on the apartment that i am renting from him from 700E to 800E. I cannot afford this rent increase so i told him that i would have to move out. He said fine, but he said i lose my deposit(800E). Am i righ to try and demand my deposit back? We dont have a contract or lease. Im not even sure hes registered landlord or paying tax.



Some strong worlds getting thrown around in the replies here.  Some from contractor are highly illegal and would leave a landlord liable to a hefty fine from the prtb.

If you are renting a full property, (i.e. not sharing) you are entitled to a minimum of 1 months written notice of the rent increase, (i.e. it's 1 full month, then it's due at the next payment).  The rent can only be reviewed once every 12 months (thus if you're there less than 12 months it can't be raised till after the 12 month period is up.  That's the law as per the Residential Tenancies Act, available on www.prtb.ie
It is my experience that you have to fight strongly for your rights with regard to renting in Ireland.  Familarize yourself with your rights on threshold.ie and give them a ring for advice.  Some of the info you get from the various board sites can be quite inaccurate (all you have to do is read this thread to see that).


The prtb has a 6 month backlog at the moment so maybe not the route to go if things are tight for you.  If the situation is totally unworkable, you might be better to pay the 800 and give 1 months notice, then you're only be down 100 rather than losing the 700 deposit.


----------



## z103 (2 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



> Yep and if you were my tenant you'd come home to find your stuff on the street and the locks changed.


Just to clarify, I didn't say I'd necessarily take this course of action, just that I'm aware that others have. If paying in arrears, it's easy to just not pay up the last month's rent.


----------



## contractor (3 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



leghorn said:


> Just to clarify, I didn't say I'd necessarily take this course of action, just that I'm aware that others have. If paying in arrears, it's easy to just not pay up the last month's rent.



Fair enough.  I hear that a lot though "just don't pay your last months rent" as if tenants have squatters rights.  I wouldn't necessarily turf someone out either, I guess my point is that kind of action is going to escalate things and you could find the situation unworkable.


----------



## Radwanska (8 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

I was given  1 weeks notice of the increase.


sam h said:


> Do you pay your rent in advance or arrears?
> How long have you been in the property?
> Have you signed the PRTB forms which the landlord should have insisted on at the start of the tenancy?
> Was there a contract?


I pay one week in advance
I have been in the property for 3 months
I never signed anything
There was no contract

i ended up giving him the extra money but i told him i was giving my 2 weeks notice on the apartment. i call the prtb but they said it would take monnths for a adjudication hearing, i just cant wait that long and dont need my landlord threatening me.


----------



## sam h (8 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

Sorry to hear you gave you notice as I reckon his tactics are nothing short of bullying - if he only rented 3 months ago, he should have checked market rates at that stage.  

Have you made an agreement to get your deposit back?  There is NO reason for him to hold this back unless you have rent arrears or cause damage to the property.


----------



## Bronte (9 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

OP - a rent increase 3 months on is riduculous.  If I was you I would take a case with the PRTB now and move out if you have to, even if it takes a long time it's better that landlords like that don't continue to treat tenant's in this way (I'm a landlord).  Make sure you document everything, proof of how much you paid in rent, deposit etc.  The PRTB should tell you exactly what you need, maybe ring them and speak to someone else if you found your initial contact was not helpful.


----------



## sam h (9 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

I'd agree with Bronte (I'm also a landlord - we're not all out to fleece tenants!!). Chances are he is not registered & may not even be paying taxes on the rent (an opinion based on his sharp practice of increasing rent after 3 months, no contact & misinforming you that you would lose you desposit). Report it to PRTB & don't forget to claim your tax relief, for rent paid, from the taxman.


----------



## Superman (9 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*

I believe that rent reviews are allowed at most once a year - so you should have another 9 months before your landlord can up the rent.  (though I believe he can ask you to leave the apartment if you are not there 6 months, and you do not have a contract).


----------



## groom (11 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



contractor said:


> You cannot tell the landlord you are not going to pay him your last months rent and expect him to let you sit there in his property with your feet up watching TV all smug and proud at how smart you are.  This will escalate and you'll be out of a home sooner than you think.  If there's a dispute you need to work it out.
> 
> To be honest I don't think there is much you can do without a contract.  He has your deposit and with no agreement in place he can pretty much do what he likes.  You shouldn't have handed someone 700 euro with no signed agreement as to what it was for.  If I were you I'd just give him a months notice and move on.  And next time sign a contract!!



I don't see why the tenant should let the LL away with it. Sounds like the tenant has alot of options. I don't think you should listen to one landlord tell you to let another LL away with mugging you


----------



## Radwanska (17 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



groom said:


> I don't see why the tenant should let the LL away with it. Sounds like the tenant has alot of options. I don't think you should listen to one landlord tell you to let another LL away with mugging you


I dont have time to wait for a PTRB ajudication, especially for the sake of E100. Instead i plan on letting the PRTB know that hes letting a place while not being registered. Im also going to inform revenue that hes not paying taxes (he told me when i asked for his pps to claim rent relief)

has anyone experience with reporting tax evasion to revenue?


----------



## Cityliving (18 Apr 2008)

OK firstly you must report him to the PRTB as it seems likely that he is not registered if he behaves like this. 

It doesnt matter if you dont want to go through the hearing I think ( I am a landlord) landlords like this need to run out of the business. 

You are entitled to one months notice for an increase and even at that if it is above the current market rate you can challenge it with the PRTB. Additionally he is not entitled to keep your deposit except in breach of contract or damage of course.

Lesson to be learned is that you must sign a contract of some sort from now on.

If you want any advice on what these contracts should look like PM me.


----------



## Satanta (18 Apr 2008)

*Re: Landlord Raising Rent*



Radwanska said:


> he told me when i asked for his pps to claim rent relief


As an FYI... 
While a Landlords PPS number is requested when claiming tax relief, it's not required. Revenue will process the application without the PPS number.


----------



## ecstatic (18 Apr 2008)

Your not entiitled to it back unless you give him notice.


----------



## Seagull (18 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> Your not entiitled to it back unless you give him notice.


And he's not entitled to raise the rent without reasonable notification.1 week's notice of a rent increase is not reasonable notice, and so the notice period drops appropriately.


----------



## shanegl (18 Apr 2008)

Did you read the whole thread? 
The landlord is not entitled to unilateraly raise rent without proper notice. He's also not registered with the PRTB or paying tax. Of course the OP should get the deposit back.


----------



## contractor (21 Apr 2008)

shanegl said:


> Did you read the whole thread?
> The landlord is not entitled to unilateraly raise rent without proper notice. He's also not registered with the PRTB or paying tax. Of course the OP should get the deposit back.



Landlords taxes are his business and nothing to do with the dispute.  He also has until the end of the tenancy to register.  But if the OP leaves before he registers then he'll have no help from the PRTB and I'm afraid to say without anything in writing he'll find it hard to get help anywhere else.


----------



## Satanta (21 Apr 2008)

contractor said:


> But if the OP leaves before he registers then he'll have no help from the PRTB and I'm afraid to say without anything in writing he'll find it hard to get help anywhere at all.


This is a (potentially) valid point. Do the PRTB have any grounds to step in if it turns out the LL is not registered (which is not the fault of the OP)?

In such a case, I would use the threat of reporting the LL for non-registration, tax evasion etc. to encourage him to return the deposit. 

The OP has every trump card (the LL is totally in the wrong in so many ways), but will potentially struggle to get anywhere with the struggle (and it would potentially be a tough fight to get anywhere).


----------



## Purple (21 Apr 2008)

If you have given one months notice and he is still not giving you back your deposit then stay an extra month without paying (as he is holding a months rent for no reason).

 He is in the wrong and relying on inefficient bureaucrats to keep you from accessing your legal entitlements does not make him right.  
robd has covered the legal position very well. He's a stupid man; tenants have more rights than landlords. He should know that.


----------



## Dreamerb (22 Apr 2008)

contractor said:


> Landlords taxes are his business and nothing to do with the dispute.


Not the subject of the dispute, perhaps, but they're certainly not solely his business. They're also the business of Revenue, the Exchequer, and every tax-compliant person. And I have every sympathy with the suggestion that where a landlord is behaving badly, a tenant should explore every normal legal option to return the favour. 



contractor said:


> He also has until the end of the tenancy to register.


Not true. New tenancies must be registered within one month of the tenancy commencing; if a landlord registers late, a higher fee applies, and they are liable to prosecution and a possible fine if they are found not to have registered. 



contractor said:


> But if the OP leaves before he registers then he'll have no help from the PRTB and I'm afraid to say without anything in writing he'll find it hard to get help anywhere else.


That bit, unfortunately, is possibly true, although Threshold would probably try to provide useful advice. 

But your post appears to be broadly defending a landlord who is, if the OP's account is accurate,  plainly behaving badly and very probably illegally.  Unless I'm misinterpreting?


----------



## contractor (23 Apr 2008)

Dreamerb said:


> Not the subject of the dispute, perhaps, but they're certainly not solely his business. They're also the business of Revenue, the Exchequer, and every tax-compliant person. And I have every sympathy with the suggestion that where a landlord is behaving badly, a tenant should explore every normal legal option to return the favour.



Fair enough.  But the OP is only assuming.  Maybe the landlord hasn't been tax evading.  For example I do not have to file this years tax returns until October of 2009.  Now my tenants could get on their high horses and jump to conclusions that I haven't paid my taxes, and they'd be right....because they're not due until October next year.



Dreamerb said:


> Not true. New tenancies must be registered within one month of the tenancy commencing; if a landlord registers late, a higher fee applies, and they are liable to prosecution and a possible fine if they are found not to have registered.


Yes he'll have to pay €140 but he still has until the end of the tenancy to register without being fined.



Dreamerb said:


> But your post appears to be broadly defending a landlord who is, if the OP's account is accurate,  plainly behaving badly and very probably illegally.  Unless I'm misinterpreting?


No I just think certain advice given is inaccurate.


----------



## ecstatic (23 Apr 2008)

If you have no lease etc then its your verbal word against his what the rate is. 

Your effectivly squatting in the house without contract provided. Landlord is entitled to do what he wants raising rent. If your leaving you have to give an acceptable notice.


----------



## jhegarty (23 Apr 2008)

contractor said:


> Fair enough.  But the OP is only assuming.  Maybe the landlord hasn't been tax evading.  For example I do not have to file this years tax returns until October of 2009.  Now my tenants could get on their high horses and jump to conclusions that I haven't paid my taxes, and they'd be right....because they're not due until October next year.



The landlord said he didn't pay taxes when the OP asked for his pps number...


----------



## Afuera (23 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> If you have no lease etc then its your verbal word against his what the rate is.
> 
> Your effectivly squatting in the house without contract provided. Landlord is entitled to do what he wants raising rent.


Absolute nonsense. Maybe you should familiarized yourself with the relevant legislation before giving us those pearls of wisdom. The OP has strong tenants rights that are being trampled all over by the landlord in this case. If they took it all the way with the PRTB, they would be compensated for the illegal attempt to raise the rent (can not be done after 3 months) and attempt to hold on to their deposit. It may take time to resolve it fully but if the OP is in a position to do it they should to try and stamp out cowboy landlords like this. These kinds of chancers are of no benefit to the rental market whatsover.


----------



## Dreamerb (26 Apr 2008)

contractor said:


> I do not have to file this years tax returns until October of 2009.  Now my tenants could get on their high horses and jump to conclusions that I haven't paid my taxes, and they'd be right....because they're not due until October next year.


That depends, and ain't necessarily so. If you're a chargeable person (i.e. making in excess of €3,174 rental profit p.a.), you're liable for preliminary tax for 2008 by this October, unless it's your first year trading. 



contractor said:


> Yes he'll have to pay €140 but he still has until the end of the tenancy to register without being fined.


Source? I was working on the basis of what the legislation says - I have no idea where you're getting this. I refer you in particular to section 134 and 143 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 which provide, respectively, the obligation for a landlord to register a tenancy, and the terms on which a landlord who does not do so is guilty of an offence. Oh, and section 9 outlines the penalties for an offence under the Act. 

And, of course, it is in the interest of a tax-compliant landlord to ensure s/he is registered if there are any outstanding borrowing in respect of the acquisition of the property, since interest on such borrowings is tax deductible only if s/he has properly registered the tenancy. 

In relation to _ecstatic_'s post... what Afuera said, +1.


----------



## ecstatic (26 Apr 2008)

what the ll can do is change the locks as your squatting if you dont pay.


----------



## Afuera (26 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> what the ll can do is change the locks as your squatting if you dont pay.


Wrong again. I´m not sure what your comment even has to do with the OPs problem since there was no question of them not paying the rent.

Your advise should come with a major warning sign. Your comment above, for landlords to take the law into their own hands by changing the locks, would result in an illegal eviction. The PRTB can award penalties of up to EUR 20,000 if a landlord was to follow this line of action.


----------



## Dreamerb (27 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> what the ll can do is change the locks as your squatting if you dont pay.



Please stop posting misinformation. You're completely wrong and obviously are not familiar with the legislation governing this area. If you want to inform yourself, please read the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, the guidance notes, and look at the PRTB and Threshold websites. 

I really hope you don't have tenants.


----------



## Rightly dun (27 Apr 2008)

*has anyone experience with reporting tax evasion to revenue?*


Radwanska you asked in one of your posts about reporting tax evasion to revenue. Any citizen can make a report to revenue, just ring them and say that you want to make a concerned citizen report. They wont tell you of any outcome, but do it anyway please.
I am a landlord myself and this sort of action by any landlord needs to be stamped out. I have several tenants on a much lower rent than market value for several years now, but they keep my places in tip top condition and the low rent far out weights the cost of sorting a house out after a bad tenant. So again even if you have moved out report the son of a bxxxh.


----------



## ecstatic (30 Apr 2008)

Well i must read that.

Lucky for my eleven tenants they tend to pay on time.


----------



## Complainer (30 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> Lucky for my eleven tenants they tend to pay on time.


Lucky for you that you haven't followed your own advice.


----------



## ecstatic (30 Apr 2008)

Ohhh you think i havent??


----------



## Dreamerb (30 Apr 2008)

ecstatic said:


> Ohhh you think i havent??


I hope you wouldn't be so reckless and behave so illegally.


----------



## Thrifty (1 May 2008)

I think i read recently that Revenue are now checking out Facebook and internet sites to find tax dodgers! Ecstatic if you are following your own advice and do own eleven properties then i think there is a good chance you are going to get tripped up sooner or later and more than likely by your own tenants or perhaps your postings on chatrooms may prompt an investigation. The cost and penalties could be much higher in the end.


----------



## Complainer (1 May 2008)

ecstatic said:


> Ohhh you think i havent??


I'm sure we'd have read the court reports in the papers showing how much compo you had to pay over to your tenants if you had.


----------



## Captin Sobel (24 May 2008)

Yes revenue would be very interested to get this landlords details, you probably don't have his PPSN though if there was no contract signed? I myself would not get involved with someone who does not follow the rules though from the offset. No contract means they are not declaring so you can't be too surprised when they start messing you about.


----------



## eileen alana (24 May 2008)

Captin Sobel said:


> I myself would not get involved with someone who does not follow the rules though from the offset.


 
Very true, one has to take individual responsibility.


----------

