# Management Company Private Housing Estate



## igora (3 Nov 2005)

Hi, 

Does anyone know if it is legal for a developer to create a management company for the upkeep of a private housing estate (as opposed to an apartment block)?

I believe this issue was highlighted on RTE's 5-7 Live programme yesterday.

Did anyone hear the programme and know of its outcome?

Thanks,

Igora


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## ClubMan (3 Nov 2005)

Whyever would it be illegal? Use the search and browse the site to see several threads on the whole issue of management companies and agents that might also be of interest to you.


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## Carpenter (3 Nov 2005)

Minister Dick Roche spoke on the issue, the issue had been raised in the Dail, i.e. some planning authorities were making the formation of management companies a condition of planning  permission in the case of housing (not apartment block type) developments.  A case in Co. Kildare was cited.  The minister indicated that this was not acceptable or desirable in the case of traditional housing estates but acknowledged thast the issue was very different in the case of apartment blocks where common areas etc necessitated such a management arrangement.  Some authorities have been imposing this as a planning condition to eliminate any responsibility for taking in charge of a scheme on completion.  However despite what Minister Roche says I'm aware of at least two schemes locally where a management structure exists in the case of housing estates and the local authority will not be taking these estates in charge as a result.  Moreover the benefits of an estate being taken in charge are questionable given that all local authorities are insufficiently funded to carry out anything other than the most basic repairs and maintenance- in the main such repairs are confined to work on sewers and water services only.  Residents must still pick up the tab on maintenance of green areas, signage etc.


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## RainyDay (3 Nov 2005)

Note that by not having to go through the 'taking in charge' process, the developer can skimp on having to meet the normal minimum requirements which the council would insist on. The management company (i.e. the residents) is left to pick up the bill. There are also cases (moreso in apartment blocks) whereby the builder retains a significant number of units in the development under his ownership, and therefore had substantial influence/voting rights in the management company.


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## ClubMan (3 Nov 2005)

Is that true in all cases? I know that in our case the developer had to lodge a bond with the _Corpo _(now _DCC_) in relation to the utilities (sewage, surface water etc.) which was to be used (and was used as it happens!) in the event that these were not completed to the required specifications before being connected to the public systems.


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## Dearg Doom (4 Nov 2005)

Personally I support the mandatory creation of a management company for private housing estates, where the residents have the voting rights to control it. Speaking as a frustrated chair of a residents committee I find it infuriating that some of the residents refuse to contributes a small sum towards the upkeep of the comman areas and yet have no problems enjoying them, allowing their children to play on the green areas, and enjoying the increased value/saleability of their houses on backs of the rest of the residents. All unpaid fees set my the management company should be required to be paid before a house can be sold.

Rant over.


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## ClubMan (4 Nov 2005)

Dearg Doom said:
			
		

> All unpaid fees set my the management company should be required to be paid before a house can be sold.


As far as I know they are. At least that's the case with our estate/management company where when it comes to selling the house the seller will need something stating that any outstanding charges/arrears are cleared. I guess the buyer's solicitor will check for this when processing the legal documents (covenant? lease?) attaching to the management company agreement or something like that? Apart from that any arrears are always treated as collectible by the management company/agent and they charge interest and legal fees back to the debtor if necessary.


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## Ms X (4 Nov 2005)

Check this out:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1497608&issue_id=13207&eid=161346


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## ClubMan (4 Nov 2005)

The headline ("Minister abolishes 'illegal' household charges") doesn't match the article itself. Maybe they meant something other than "abolishes" - e.g. "admonishes" or "lashes" ?


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## igora (4 Nov 2005)

Thank you for all your replies.

I hope Minister Roche will clarify the situation in the coming months.


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## MOB (4 Nov 2005)

Folks,

there are two related but quite distinct issues:

1.   Some Local Authorities are forcing developers to form management companies.  It is this which the Minister feels is unjustified and possibly illegal.

2.   Even where there is no compulsion to do so, many developers of their own volition form management companies. This can be for a number of reasons such as :

A.  Developer doesn't want to wait 8 years for local authority to take estate in charge (though in fairness, delays like this are almost a thing of the past)

B.  Developer doesn't think local authority will keep the place well and wants to address the concerns raised by Dearg Doom above.

C.  Developer is a cowboy, happy to forfeit his bond and just get the heck out of there.

I sell housing estates for builders.  My standard practice is to retain the right to form a management company.  All house buyers are obliged to join the management company if one is set up;  This means that if it becomes apparent that there is a need for such a company, my clients (good reputable builders, bless them) can facilitate, but if there is no real need for one (active residents association with no real problems) the residents can be spared the expense of keeping a limited company in existence.

I don't think there is any legislation which could stop developers forming management companies.  Bear in mind that under scenario 1 above (management company forced by local authority) the residents would have to pay for repairs to sewers and watermains within the estate, which is clearly unfair in circumstances where the local authority are funded to take responsibility for such items.   Under scenario 2 above, the developer-led management company is usually only responsible for keeping the standard of decor a wee bit higher than would otherwise be the case.


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## ClubMan (4 Nov 2005)

Are there issues with the title the land on which some developments are sited that would provide the rationale for having a private management company? In our case the development is on land previously owned by the _Department of Defence _and this (or the title/transfer of the land) was cited as a reason for there being a private management company (although some utilities are taken care of by the council). Does that make any sense or was somebody talking rubbish to me?


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## CCOVICH (22 May 2006)

Note:  post from 2Pack below stripped from this thread



			
				2Pack said:
			
		

> I do feel that FF and the PDs are in for an awful shock on the doorstep when the next election campaign starts because of the lack of regulation of these entities and they way in which they can simply present their victims with extortionate demands every year ....in certain cases that is .
> 
> There are swathes of new housing in the larger cities where nobody will vote for the government because they have been hung out to dry by the developers and their cronies in property management .
> 
> ...


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## CCOVICH (22 May 2006)

Can we keep the discussion reasonable and on topic please-any ranting can be done in _Letting off Steam_.

Thanks.


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## AKA (22 May 2006)

My problem with management fees in housing estates is that people in the housing estate across the road that's a few years older are not paying it.  It should be everyone or no-one.

Do councils take over housing estates anymore?  What happens if there are a few duplexes in the same estate that seperate from the houses?

I don't mind paying for extra care to keep the housing estate to a high standard  - I know of one housing estate where the residents association pays 75 euro a year and they employ a gardener to take care of open areas.  The place looks great.  I pay 300 euro to a management company a year and the upkeep of the estate is quite poor.


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