# Get a dog instead of an alarm!



## MrEarl (4 Jun 2020)

Mr Burgess,

What exactly do you want to achieve, by having an alarm?

Deepening on the answer to that question, you may actually be better off getting a dog, or perhaps getting a dog and a more basic alarm system.

Having had both a dog and a monitored alarm for circa 10 years, I would take the dog ahead of the alarm almost every time, if asked to pick one.

My view is that the dog is a more likely deterrent - once it starts barking, a potential intruder is less likely to risk getting bitten, than just suffer the noise of an alarm go off and potentially a monitoring station start making phone calls.

If there's an intruder inside your premises, odds are your dog will help defend you. The box on the outside wall won't and neither will the nice person from the monitoring company, who phoned to first ask for your password and then, almost challenging your manhood to get you to go down the stairs in the middle of the night, to see if there's a couple of burglars waiting for you, before calling the Gardai to report your problem.

The dog doesn't stop working due to power surges, battery failure, dodgy software upgrades, faulty equipment, monitoring staff having slipped off for a smoke while your house alarm keeps ringing, unreliable mobile phone signal etc.

The extra benefits of a dog as a companion, and a bit of motivation to get you out regularly for some exercise, are definite extra benefits.

Granted, with a dog comes a level of responsibility. You may need to put some time into training, you can't leave it on its own and unattended for a week or two etc.


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## Mrs Vimes (4 Jun 2020)

Plus, your neighbours also get the joy of listening to your yappy mutt day and night whereas an alarm might only go off for ten minutes if you keep it serviced.
Sorry, I'm cranky today thanks to neighbour's yappy mutt.


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## SparkRite (4 Jun 2020)

While, on the whole, I agree with your suggestion Mr. Earl, I have had both.

I have found that my little box of electronic wizardry needs very little feeding, never chewed the furniture
and doesn't tend to leave deposits all over my garden and the odd one on the floor to greet me in the morning unlike
my canine 'deterrent' does.


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## mathepac (4 Jun 2020)

My neighbours 2-doors over came to my home  to thank me for my "yappy mutts" who alerted them to an intruder / potential burglar on their property last year. They know my dogs and when their barking continued beyond the norm, they switched on their outdoor lights and caught sight of a figure high-tailing it over their back wall into the fields that adjoin our back gardens. The dogs greet strangers  they see on "their" street or common area briefly but stop as soon as  they pass.

It was late night and unusually my dogs, a male Rottweiler and his tiny terrierist sister, were in their kennels in my back garden; they sleep indoors 99% of the time, but I was visiting family and was late home. I have signs warning about "Rottweiler Loose" in a couple of downstairs windows and on the side-gate to the back. Little do people casing the joint know that if they make friends with the Rottie, he'll invite them in for tay and buns, whereas they are at permanent risk of  having their ankles savaged by Ms. Terrierist, just because she feels like it!

Doggies get my vote, ya can't snuggle an alarm of a cold night watching telly!!


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## DK123 (4 Jun 2020)

What about expensive CCTV where the only advantage is that you can entertain yourself by watching your traumatic experience of getting mugged and robbed on video afterwards .I think a dog would be better here as well perhaps!


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## Leo (4 Jun 2020)

MrEarl said:


> The dog doesn't stop working due to power surges, battery failure, dodgy software upgrades, faulty equipment, monitoring staff having slipped off for a smoke while your house alarm keeps ringing, unreliable mobile phone signal etc.



The dog does consume vastly more energy/resources though...and I believe they need to be fed a lot more frequently than an alarm system needs maintenance, so from environmental and overall maintenance overhead perspectives, the alarm is a clear winner


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## Laughahalla (4 Jun 2020)

No doubt about it, Criminals really dislike dogs and will most likely go to a neighbouring house instead.
However, the Dog will cost you 10k-15k over it's lifetime. Grooming, Vet fees or insurance premiums, dog license, Decent food, kennel fees when you are away.
Then you have the time it takes to clean up after it. (Bigger dog, more food, bigger poo)

That 10-15 k invested , we'll say 100 euro per month over 15 years compounding at 7% would give you approx €31k ....


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## Saavy99 (4 Jun 2020)

Only downsides are you can't go on long holidays without incurring hefty kennel fees and vet bills may be very costly particularly as doggy gets older. But apart from that dogs are great at minding the house


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## Monbretia (4 Jun 2020)

Not a hope I'd get a dog regardless of the benefits unless you actually want a dog, they are living beings at the end of the day and need minding, lots of it!   Picking up poop is not a hobby I want either, done my time with nappies!  It's simply not an option for someone out of the house everyday or who goes away regularly.   

I won't even go into my neighbours constantly yapping terrier!   Believe it or not I actually like dogs but they are not for everyone's lifestyle.


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## MrEarl (5 Jun 2020)

Hello everyone,

While not wanting to take the thread off topic, I do want to make a few comments, in response to some posts above, as I think it important that certain things get clarified, or correctly explained to anyone not familiar with owning a dog:

* I have what would be described as a large, mature, full pedigree dog. He's always given quality branded food, he gets his visits to the vet, annual tablets and shots etc. He costs sub €1k per year, all in. It could be done for less, but I'm happy with what I pay for etc. I got rid of pet insurance years ago BTW, as it was a blatent rip off and having since had to pay for an operation for my dog, I'm still glad that I ditched the insurance. As for expensive grooming, it's completely unnecessary, but then again, so is shopping in Brown Thomas regularly and yet, some people still like to do it.

* Dogs need a little training, a little discipline, and regular exercise, then you don't have issues with them eating furniture etc. They are naturally a clean animal, so don't soil where they live, unless left with no choice. Giving them dry food, a stable diet and regular exercise, ensures the pick up is easy, and takes place outdoors. Puppies need a little time to be house trained, and very old dogs can lose control on occasion, just like humans - both are relatively brief periods, in a dogs life.

* Dogs don't have to be left in expensive kennels, many dog owners have family or friends, who look after the dog, of the owner goes abroad for a while. Also, many hotels and holiday homes in Ireland, the UK and France are pet friendly, so there's also the option of taking the dog with you, when you travel.

* There's no doubt that a dog and an alarm can't be considered direct alternatives, you'll need to put in some time with a dog, but you'll get a lot more back - far more than a good alternative to an alarm. The question really is, do you want to put in a bit of effort, in return for the various additional benefits that you get from a dog, above and beyond, a state of the art, mobile, living, house alarm & intruder deterrent.


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## Sue Ellen (5 Jun 2020)

Well said Mr. Earl.  Hoping also not to take the thread off topic but just want to forewarn people of the monetary value of their mutts.

Unfortunately these days its the dogs being stolen as they are often more expensive than valuables in the house.  Believe it or not dogs are being stolen all over the country at the moment and some possibly to order.

Its also very sad to see at the moment that so many people who are at home so much because of Covid feel the need to 'get' a dog.  They are buying dogs everywhere even from possibly Done Deal, Gumtree or illegal breeders.  They don't check their source out and think they are buying a possible pedigree.  Breeds such as cavichon etc are available which is a cavalier king charles crossed with a bichon.  Both breeds have many health issues so combining it in one dog can lead to a possible lifetime of vet visits.  This dog is a mongrel and not a pedigree but the small fluffy handbag aspect can be the attraction.

There is lots of money to be made and I have heard figures of €1,500 to €2,000 for a dog with no papers.  Rescues are also worrying that when people return to work these dogs will be dumped into rescues because the novelty has worn off which is something that happens regularly after times like Christmas.

Breeders offer to meet on places like the Naas Road to save people the bother of driving down to see the conditions that the dog was bred in or the health state of the mother or father.  I have heard of so many of these dogs dying within a few days of purchase because of possible  or other health issues.

We have all seen many dogs being confiscated at ports and this is why dogs are being transported from abroad although Ireland is considered the puppy capital of Europe.  This particular story caught my eye the other day.


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## kiabi1 (5 Jun 2020)

Hi All,

When I read this thread yesterday it got me thinking and as a dog owner myself I agree they are the best deterrent. Our dog is 12 years old and sleeps in the house at night. Over that time I believe he has earned his keep fending off opportunistic criminals. However, to anyone buying a dog today I would advise them to think twice about it. Particularly anyone who hasn’t owned one already in the past.

For me growing up in the country-side my family always had a dog. Yes, it is a lot of work feeding and caring for them and there is associated costs. However, the dog we currently have has grown up at the same time as my kids and it has given them an appreciation for animals their welfare and nature.

However, why I would be cautious advising anyone to purchase a dog is that society in Ireland has fundamentally changed over the last 20 years. In my younger years our dog would casually walk down the road, call to all the neighbours and likewise their dogs would roam around the neighbourhood. Back then nobody minded.

Nowadays we are living in a hyper sensitive health and safety era. People over-react to any deviation from the norm, a dog off the lead, a dog walking towards them, a dog greeting them. 

Fundamentally, If you purchase a big dog it needs space to exercise, if that means fencing it in your garden then fine if you have the space. However, there will always be times when a dog manages to escape. A gate left open inadvertently, the collar slips the lead or a door etc is left open and because society now has become so health and safety conscious as an owner one can get into trouble fast.

We also have to contend with the Social Media brigade. The goodie two shoes who believe every dog walking in the park is lost and take it upon themselves to phone dog wardens and post on FaceBook that they have found a stray dog even if it is in close proximity to where it lives.

Going back to the original topic of this mail forum thread. An alarm is also something that never interested me. When I built our house It was wired for an alarm but the repeated mundaneness of setting one and deactivating one everyday never appealed to me.

One alternative is home external camera’s with backup to the cloud. Affordable external home security camera technology has really advanced over the last few years with advances in intelligence built into them that can differentiate normal and abnormal behaviour. Of course anyone thinking about this should also consider the GDPR and privacy considerations. The health and safety brigade don’t just stop at dogs


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## Slim (6 Jun 2020)

I agree that cctv merely allows you to see what happened. Most burglars now cover their faces due to the common usage of cctv. We have a monitored alarm system and it is now ingrained in us to set it at night. In addition, our downstairs internal doors are locked at night so anyone who breaks in will be confined to the kitchen or utility unless they make a lot of noise breaking through solid oak doors. Also, an error by the technician means our living and dining rooms are alarmed even when we can move freely throughout the rest of the ground floor. Upstairs, bedrooms are all locked from landing side unless occupied. We lock our bedroom door when sleeping. Not impregnable but a lot of hassle for the burglars. Would love a dog though, but not willing to care for one at this stage.


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## Mrs Vimes (6 Jun 2020)

Gosh Slim, I hope you never have a fire in the house!


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## MrEarl (7 Jun 2020)

Slim said:
			
		

> ... We lock our bedroom door when sleeping. Not impregnable but a lot of hassle for the burglars. Would love a dog though, but not willing to care for one at this stage.



I know quite a few people who lock their internal doors, and I also lock our bedroom door (despite having the dog on duty, in the rest of the house).

I know someone who was woken up one night, to two guys standing over himself and his wife, while they slept. A very unpleasant experience...


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## Slim (7 Jun 2020)

Mrs Vimes said:


> Gosh Slim, I hope you never have a fire in the house!


Yes, me too. However, as we installed new smoke alarms 18 months ago and feel we can unlock the necessary doors, we are content. We have access to windows as a means of escape...as long as we are conscious, of course.


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## Slim (7 Jun 2020)

MrEarl said:


> I know quite a few people who lock their internal doors, and I also lock our bedroom door (despite having the dog on duty, in the rest of the house).
> 
> I know someone who was woken up one night, to two guys standing over himself and his wife, while they slept. A very unpleasant experience...


Yeah, happened down the road from us. They'd omitted to set the alarm. Very scary for them.


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## Monbretia (7 Jun 2020)

I lock a lot of internal doors at night or whenever I leave the house so basically if someone entered the house by any door/window around back or side they could go no further than kitchen/sitting room without breaking down a door, obviously the route to main exit is not part of that which is through hall, all keys are on my side of hall and in the doors at night.   So unless someone breaks in my front door I should be ok  

Fire wise I'd be gone out the window if the hall is blocked for any reason.  You've just reminded me I must replace the battery in a smoke detector that I took out when it started going off too easily.

I also have security sensor lighting all around the house, it works in the obvious way but they can all be turned on by a switch beside my bed so if I hear anything dodgy I can hit the switch and flood all four sides of the house with light, all deterrents are helpful!


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## twofor1 (7 Jun 2020)

Monbretia said:


> I lock a lot of internal doors at night or whenever I leave the house ........


I might lock internal doors when I am in the house, but never when I go out.

A neighbour of mine with an alarm also locks any rooms that had valuables in them when he went out.

He came back after being out less than an hour, his alarm was going off, nobody paid any attention to it. A rear window had been jemmied open with a crowbar or similar. Every door inside that was locked was smashed or jemmied open.

Not only did he lose a lot he had the additional problem of having to get several door’s / frames replaced, repaired and repainted. Had they not been locked they would not have been smashed.


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## Monbretia (7 Jun 2020)

They must seriously have come ready for battering with the right equipment!    I believe the opportunistic thief is unlikely to be that organised and if they are that determined then let them at it and just glad I'm not there!   

Both my neighbours have had break ins, one through open window, one open patio door, nothing major taken other than small stuff as I would say just someone saw an opportunity and took it.  One neighbour has a dog, aforementioned yappy terrier that I can't stand but don't know if he alerted them or not but home owner chased them down the road, she nearly caught them too


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## DK123 (7 Jun 2020)

A lot of modern day burglers still use a crowbar.It is known by them as the "big key" I think a good,well trained dog would be more effective in this case than an alarm.


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## mathepac (7 Jun 2020)

This is how alert my guard dog pack is this lunchtime. Wake them from their pre-lunch bloody mary induced coma and you'll be shredded!!


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## Sue Ellen (8 Jun 2020)

mathepac said:


> This is how alert my guard dog pack is this lunchtime. Wake them from their pre-lunch bloody mary induced coma and you'll be shredded!!



Its a hard ol' station all the same, mathepac 

Don't think I'd ever like to go back to the stage of not having a dog, worth their weight in gold, even if they are a lot of trouble sometimes.


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## MrEarl (8 Jun 2020)

twofor1 said:


> ...
> He came back after being out less than an hour, his alarm was going off, nobody paid any attention to it....



And that's traditionally been a problem, lots of alarms have gone off over the years and just been ignored. 

In theory, monitored alarms are supposed to overcome that issue, but I once had an experience with phonewatch where they didn't phone to check why the alarm was going off, for about two hours after the event. All the useless fools did was wake us up for a second time that night - then offered some sort of horse "poo" excuse for the delay.


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## MrEarl (8 Jun 2020)

mathepac said:


> This is how alert my guard dog pack is this lunchtime. Wake them from their pre-lunch bloody mary induced coma and you'll be shredded!!



Hello,

All you've got to do is put a photo of the big lad in a few of your windows, and you can be sure any intruders will move on 

Photos aside, I would be confident that your dogs would be up in an instant, if they heard in unfamiliar nose, got a scent that they didn't recognise etc.


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## Monbretia (8 Jun 2020)

MrEarl said:


> All you've got to do is put a photo of the big lad in a few of your windows, and you can be sure any intruders will move on




Love that idea, better than those neighbourhood watch stickers I'd imagine!


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## Purple (9 Jun 2020)

If you are out all day then don't get a dog.
If you have a small garden then don't get a dog.
If you travel frequently then don't get a dog.

I grew up with dogs and love them but the house is empty 12 hours a day so leaving a dog there on their own for that time would be cruel.


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