# Accountant failing to file return



## JollyRoger (9 May 2014)

I had to file my tax returns for last year and I admittedly had made some mistakes with keeping records. Some were due to plain lack of attention and partially to leak that destroyed some records. 

Anyway I  got all my papers together and I gave it to an accountant. Being fair it was little more work for him than it should have been. While doing this he passed it onto  junior staff. They were incredibly unhelpful I needed to push them along the whole way and correct what they were doing.

So I was told it was all sorted but took 3-4 months. Then I got a letter from revenue that my corporation tax hadn't been filed. So I contacted them via e-mail. I got no response so I rang and told "For some reason they didn't have the permissions to file  this and had to request it and would file it once this happened" Fine I thought although annoyed knowing the "some reason" was they hadn't requested it and had forgotten to do it. 

So I receive notification from ROS saying they were granted access from 24/4/14.  I foolishly assumed that meant they would file it like they said. 

So I checked on Wednesday night and they hadn't filed it. So I sent an email saying it hadn't been filed and to ring me in the morning.  The next morning I received an abusive mail saying they were waiting to get access. This was simply not true. 
So I replied and said just file it and I would never have to deal with them again. Also pointing out they had access.
So last night checked it and still not filed. Then this morning I get communication from revenue stating their estimate and their withdrawal.

I am very annoyed about this should I file a complaint about this accountant?


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## DB74 (9 May 2014)

What did the accountant himself say?


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## JollyRoger (9 May 2014)

He was the one that claimed he was still waiting and sent the abusive e-mail.


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## MrEarl (9 May 2014)

Hello,

Assuming the situation is as you describe it and I'm missing nothing significant here, I would:

A) provide a copy of the abusive email to the Revenue to support your good intentions here and ask them for a formal response confirming the situation.

Then, assuming the Revenue evidence that your accountant has not been doing his / her job ....

B) make a complaint to whatever professional body your accountant is a member of.


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## Joe_90 (9 May 2014)

MrEarl said:


> A) provide a copy of the abusive email to the Revenue to support your good intentions here and ask them for a formal response confirming the situation.
> 
> .



The Revenue don't care about who is at fault.  Don't waste your time.  Get the accountant to file your return and get your books and go elsewhere.

MAKE sure that the annual return with the CRO is done on time.  If its not it's a major issue.

Make a complaint to the professional body of you wish.


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## T McGibney (9 May 2014)

Bit of history here which shines a rather different light on the above: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182422 The combination of late filing (meaning complusory statutory audit) and lost records could well mean an ODCE report for failure to keep "proper books of account". If so, this is a serious situation for everyone concerned, including the accountant and this may explain the delays.

The whole area of ROS permissions can be randomly messy, and we've had a few cases where we couldn't file returns because ROS kept rejecting them even though Revenue were saying we could. On at least one occasion the delays got so ridiculous that we had to send a hardcopy of the return to a helpful Revenue contact who apparently manually input the return onto their system. In fairness, in such cases, we've found Revenue very co-operative in removing surcharges where these have been caused by ROS delays, but the issues here seems to long pre-date the ROS hiccup.


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## JollyRoger (9 May 2014)

To be very clear. I already said I made a mistake and that it was addressed. The advice on that from here was incorrect and there was no penalty from revenue. I did have to pay for an independent audit which was fine. The mistake I made was when things were to be filed and nothing more. The money was simply sitting there waiting to be filed.
The accountant caused way more trouble and distress. Repeatedly asking for documents I had already sent. In the end he said everything had been filed and I had nothing to worry about. Then 4 months after that I got a letter stating that corporation tax had not been filed. He had forgotten to do this and request to be allowed do this as far as I can tell.
Then after being given permission he failed to file it. I then contacted him ask him to call me because it still hadn't been done. He then was abusive and still didn't file it. Then It was automatically done this morning.

There isn't actually any charge due or being taken. It is his professional conduct I am questioning. 

I don't see what different light this shines on anything as I freely admit I made a mistake but I did pay somebody to sort it out  and they failed to do it after assuring me all was done. 

P30 and Vat are all being paid on time for this year.


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## mandelbrot (9 May 2014)

JollyRoger said:


> To be very clear. I already said I made a mistake and that it was addressed. The advice on that from here was incorrect and there was no penalty from revenue. I did have to pay for an independent audit which was fine. The mistake I made was when things were to be filed and nothing more. The money was simply sitting there waiting to be filed.



The advice you got was not incorrect - you were told you were seriously late and that you could be liable to interest or a fixed penalty, and this was correct. The fact that Revenue didnt impose them doesn't make the advice incorrect.

Unless there's other advice you believe was incorrect?


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## JollyRoger (12 May 2014)

It was incorrect in that it said these things would certainly happen. People like to overblow all possible consequences on forums. That is incorrect, if somebody is looking for advice and wondering what is going to happen actual reality is what they are looking for. 
If somebody asked what will happen when I break a red light and people start talking about dangerous driving  charges, 10 year bans and a prison term that is incorrect. That is how I see it so yes incorrect from my point of view and extremely unhelpful to boot.


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## Bronte (12 May 2014)

JollyRoger said:


> It was incorrect in that it said these things would certainly happen. .


 
Where did the accountants state that 'x' would certainly happen.  I saw words like 

could be liable to interest

could well mean a report

etc.

It is far better that people are warned on the dangers of not filing on time.  In many cases revenue are understanding, but not always.


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## DB74 (12 May 2014)

JollyRoger said:


> It was incorrect in that it said these things would certainly happen. People like to overblow all possible consequences on forums. That is incorrect, if somebody is looking for advice and wondering what is going to happen actual reality is what they are looking for.
> If somebody asked what will happen when I break a red light and people start talking about dangerous driving  charges, 10 year bans and a prison term that is incorrect. That is how I see it so yes incorrect from my point of view and extremely unhelpful to boot.



Well to be perfectly honest you haven't a clue what you are talking about. There are no absolutes here. No-one can guarantee you what is going to happen, all that happened is that experienced people are giving you their opinion. Revenue can charge interest to whomever and whenever they want to, so long as they are within their rights to do so. The fact that they haven't charged you any interest now is absolutely no indication as to whether they may or may not charge you interest in the future.

Give your accountant my sympathies when you see him!


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## JollyRoger (12 May 2014)

Oh frequent posters who just love to jump up and down on people and say what they think is smart answers. How about actually being helpful? Might be a foreign concept to you now you staked out your own part of the internet to call your own. Maybe learn some common manners and sense.
At this point you aren't adding or helping on the topic at hand. Don't see the point to come on here just to nit pick and insult. 

I familiar enough with human nature to know the score. DBZ7 for example am I to take it you are normally not honest? What do you gain from insulting me? Have you helped anybody with your comments on this thread?
I know what I am talking about when it comes to the nature of post like yours. You wouldn't dare say that to somebody on the street but on your familiar part of the web you think it is acceptable. 
Thanks to those that were trying to help and grow up to those who didn't


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## mandelbrot (12 May 2014)

JollyRoger said:


> Oh frequent posters who just love to jump up and down on people and say what they think is smart answers. How about actually being helpful? Might be a foreign concept to you now you staked out your own part of the internet to call your own. Maybe learn some common manners and sense.
> At this point you aren't adding or helping on the topic at hand. Don't see the point to come on here just to nit pick and insult.
> 
> I familiar enough with human nature to know the score. DBZ7 for example am I to take it you are normally not honest? What do you gain from insulting me? Have you helped anybody with your comments on this thread?
> ...


 
You are very rude and ungrateful for the help/information that people have tried tried to give you on here. Posters like Joe90, DB74 and myself all have good track records in helping people out and answering posters' queries as helpfully as we can - and we are all experienced in the field and know what we are talking about.

I asked you a very simple question - you assert that you were given incorrect advice on here in your previous thread - what was it?? I told you that since some of the PAYE/PRSI was overdue to Revenue by in excess of 12 months that they might impose interest on the very late payment - under the legislation they are entitled to charge interest from the 14th of the following month in respect of amounts the company was due to deduct under PAYE for a month and which remain unpaid - that is a FACT. And while they don't generally operate it to the letter of the law, your company is very lucky it escaped without having interest imposed.

And DB74 is not insulting you - you don't have a clue what you're talking about, that's clear from your posts on both your threads - and people have tried to help you. We'll know better next time, or at least I will!


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## JollyRoger (13 May 2014)

mandelbrot said:


> And DB74 is not insulting you - you don't have a clue what you're talking about,





DB74 said:


> Give your accountant my sympathies when you see him!


That is an insult, just because he or others have given good advice at some point does not remove what is an insult. You have chosen to ignore bad behaviour because you know the people. I seem to be much more clued in on that respect. You haven't helped and seem much happier to berate me. I got your view no need to repeat you can go off and get angry with somebody who you judge not "grateful" enough.


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## Bronte (13 May 2014)

If I were you Jolly Roger I would fire your accountant, you've called into question his professionalism, his competence, you've stated he is abusive in his emails to you. 

In addition all the accountancy qualified and otherwise posters on here are of no help to you. DB74 make a funny jokey comment and you take umbridge. That's apart from what else you said. Well Mandlebrot summened it up nicely 

You come on here for *free* advice and you got at least 3 experts to give you *competent* advice, they asked you pertinent questions and when you were questioned on your actions you resort to insults. 

Your accountant has my sympathies too.


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## JollyRoger (13 May 2014)

Bronte said:


> You come on here for *free* advice and you got at least 3 experts to give you *competent* advice, they asked you pertinent questions and when you were questioned on your actions you resort to insults.
> 
> Your accountant has my sympathies too.


At no point have I insulted you! Yet you feel the need to insult me? You have just proved what I have already said.

Want to point out who I insulted first? People have got their panties in a bunch over me saying advice was incorrect. I stand by it from my point of view which I explained. That is not an insult.

I came on here to discuss something that happened on a public form not free advice. Responses have been overly hostile. I have respondent in kind against my better judgement. Nobody is acting maturely but as an newbie the hostility from frequent posters is a terrible sign of behaviour and moderation on this forum. 

NOTE: Not a single insult to you


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## Purple (13 May 2014)

Fire your accountant and move on.
Make sure you know what they are meant to do and make sure they do it. It's up to you to keep on top of them so don't assume that returns etc will happen on time.

In my experience accountants are just like everyone else; there are good ones and bad ones, there are organised one and disorganised ones. 
From the sounds of it your requirements are messy and your accountant doesn't want the hassle. It also sounds like he screwed up. It also sounds like you are high maintenance (no offense!) and he's not up to the job. Move on.


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## JollyRoger (13 May 2014)

Purple said:


> Fire your accountant and move on.
> Make sure you know what they are meant to do and make sure they do it. It's up to you to keep on top of them so don't assume that returns etc will happen on time.
> 
> In my experience accountants are just like everyone else; there are good ones and bad ones, there are organised one and disorganised ones.
> From the sounds of it your requirements are messy and your accountant doesn't want the hassle. It also sounds like he screwed up. It also sounds like you are high maintenance (no offense!) and he's not up to the job. Move on.


 
I hear you. By all accounts I am fully aware I made mistakes and never claimed otherwise. Never again will I rely on an accountant to do the job they are paid to do with out checking they are doing it. This accountant made it out like every record I had was wrong which when it came down to it was not true and had made me very nervous. I simply had filed on time. 

If I was to read this thread myself I would think I am high maintenance. That is not a true reflection of my work ethic nor my dealing with people. This is just amusement to me now. 

I should have listened to the people who warned me about him. It appears this is a pattern. I am sure some won't believe that.


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## Purple (13 May 2014)

JollyRoger said:


> Never again will I rely on an accountant to do the job they are paid to do with out checking they are doing it.



If you hired a builder to carry out work on your house would just assume that they were doing what you asked and they would be finished at the agreed date? I don’t think you would. Why would you treat your accountant (or plumber or solicitor or mechanic or doctor, etc) any differently? They are all just people you engage to provide a service. They are all human and they are all as likely as each other to be competent or incompetent, professional or unprofessional. You are spending the money; make sure you are getting what you are paying for.


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## Palerider (14 May 2014)

How were his charges, in line with comparables, more or less and have you paid him...?


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