# non resident bank account



## cuchullain (1 Mar 2004)

I, along with 80,000 others have received a letter from a banking institution stating that the Irish Revenue have made enquiries regarding bank accounts held in Norn Iron by Free Staters. I reside in a border area and the account was for handiness more than anything. I opened it approx 20 years ago and overseas accounts etc was the last thing on my mind. Both my children were born in Newry and Vhi didn't cover the full costs and there was other costs involved too.That was the primary reason for the account. Since getting the letter I dug out the deposit book and at no stage did it go over £800 and at one point was down to .01p. The interest in the early stages seems quite high for the amount of money in the account but by the mid 90's had dwindled to under £1 yearly. In total there appears to be about £150  interest over the 20 years. The account was closed in 2001.
When I received the letter my first reaction was just to go ahead and declare the account and try and work out how much I was deemed to owe the Revenue. I visited their site and it appears that because I did not declare before Nov 2001 that I have penalties to pay.Also there is interest on the amount due. All in all a few hundred euro should cover it. BUT the site goes on to say that if the account is still active and I declare now that the penalty from 2001 to now can be mitigated by owning up but if the account is older that there can be no mitigation of the penalty. So me thinks f*** that for a game soldiers, I wont declare as there is absolutely no point. The only incentive I can see for declaring is that they (a) wont  publish my name  (b) wont  prosecute me.
I personally doubt that they will prosecute me for a few hundred euro and I dont think they can publish name for this amount but I could stand corrected.
I phoned the bank in Newry where I had the account and they confirmed that it was closed in 2001. How exactly will the revenue know that (a) I was the holder of the account  and (b) the amount of interest I was  paid over the 20 odd years. The bank informed me that their record at  most went back 15 years. I got the impression that all they were going to inform was my name and address. For the amount we're talking about are the revenue going to pursue all border residents, most of whom received this letter?


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (1 Mar 2004)

I don't understand the mention of "non resident" account since you seem to be resident in the Republic? Do you mean that this account is actually a bogus non resident account? Or do you mean that this is an overseas account that was not declared in respect of money used to fund it and/or interest earned? I'm also not clear if your outstanding liability is in relation to tax on deposit interest only or also in relation to income tax on the funds lodge to the account. One way or another it would make sense to regularlise the situation in relation to this account as soon as possible and preferably within the timeframe of the current Revenue investigations. If the sums involved are small then it's no real burden on you and it clears the slate in respect of your dealings with Revenue. If the sums are not small then delaying will merely dig you into a deeper hole with regard to liabilities, interest and penalties. This topic might also be of interest to you:


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## rainyday (1 Mar 2004)

There is another incentive to 'go straight' - Honesty, ethics, morality and all that good stuff. It's not just a matter of 'will I get caught?'


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## Ham Slicer (1 Mar 2004)

It doesn't matter if you live with one leg on each side of the border.  You are Irish resident with a non-resident account.  You did not declare the deposit interest on the account, regardless.

It would be a lot less hassle if you declared it now.

If you go on to the Revenue website there is actually a ready reckoner that will calculate the amount of tax and interest now due

[broken link removed]


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## sluice44 (2 Mar 2004)

> The only incentive I can see for declaring is that they (a) wont publish my name (b) wont prosecute me.



I don't think they publish your name if the value is less than 12,000euro.

They could prosecute you but how many people get prosecuted each year for Revenue offences?

Sluice


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## cuchullain (2 Mar 2004)

*non resident accounts*

0. in the eighty's it was  normal practice for branches of banks in Newry etc to advertise on billboards along the M1 for Southeners to open non resident accounts in Northern Ireland.  Equally banks in Dundalk etc advertised for Northeners to open  non resident accounts on our side of the border. An Post,which at was semi-state operated them for Northern Ireland residents. In the eightys before the punt fell way below the pound it was possible to obtain punt for pound on occasions. If for instance the punt was worth 95p sterling then it was not worth northeners while going to a bureau or bank to convert as they might even get less than they had starting off after exhorbitant charges etc.They were usually given 5p on the pound in shops and garages etc and a lot of garages etc would gather up sterling for customers etc who required it this way.
It made sense for someone who knew they were going to have to settle accounts etc in the North in sterling to try and accumulate sterling and it made better sense to open an account where at least you knew it was safe until required. My mistake was not declaring the interest but dont forget those adverts which stated that non residents of Northern Ireland didnt have to pay tax or declare it. Hands up all who would have declared their account? How could we possibly know that the 'big boys' were milking the system and that their actions would rebound on us all 20+ years later. A BOGUS  non resident account however is someone in the south who opens an account in the south and declares he lives elsewhere. My account, small as it was, was a genuine non resident account as I resided this side of the border and the account was on the other side.I have visited the revenue site and having studied it have come to the conclusing that I am better off staying stum on this one. For the very reasons that (a) The amounts are small but the penalties disproportionate  (b) there is no real benefit in coming clean. if they do come after me the amount I will be caught for remains the same as there is no mitigation in coming forward voluntary. Hence my earlier comment f*** that for a game of soldiers.
Sluice44 I agree with you on this on for the likes of me anyway unless they set out to make an example of someone.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (2 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident accounts*



> there is no mitigation in coming forward voluntary



That's not what the Revenue site says. If you choose not to regularise the situation now (by the stated deadline) then you are putting yourself at risk of even stiffer penalties if/when you are eventually found out. Basically you would be digging yourself into an even deeper hole. With the powers that the Revenue have these days to investigate accounts this is far from unlikely. I personally don't believe that it's worth taking this risk particularly if the sums involved are relatively small. Unlike Rainyday I wouldn't even bother appealing to the conscience or better nature of tax evaders but would stick to pointing out the practical issues involved.


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## VoluntaryDisclosure (2 Mar 2004)

*tax*

I'm not sure about this but maybe someone could clarify.  If you come forward now and make a full disclosure you will get mitigiation of penalties etc.  However, the amounts involved may be very small.  Once you've made that voluntary disclosure, you only qualfiy for reduced mitigation of penalties if you want to make another voluntary disclosure in the future (which hopefull you won't).


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## Cuchullain (3 Mar 2004)

*non resident account*

Thank guys. will give it more thought. The amounts are very small beer, just over £150 interest in 19 years. the bank in Newry informed me that they only kept records for 15 years and the first years appear to have the higher interest so if  they provide me with a statement which only details 15 years this is what I will declare.
0. You are correct. Having a conscience where the tax man is concerned slightly baffles me. We all pay our taxes in everything we do,  ie Work rsi and income tax,  Spend :Vat, have a windfall:Cgt, Savings irt( I know, I know), buy a car: Vrt and vat petrol taxes and road taxes, Die:death duties.So no, it would take a little more than conscience over tax before I would lose sleep.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (3 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*

(This message was left blank)


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (3 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*



> We all pay our taxes in everything we do



Obviously some of us don't...! :rolleyes 

I'm getting sick of people coming on here to look for advice about their tax evasion and then trying to make excuses and justifications for the holes that they've gotten themselves into or why they're not going to do anything about it even when faced with an ultimatum. I'm beginning to wonder if any of us should bother to gives these spongers any advice at all from now on... :\


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## Penny Foolish (3 Mar 2004)

*.*

If giving advice to certain people annoys you that much, then don't do it. Move on and read another thread


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## Denis (4 Mar 2004)

*non resident account*

As far as I'm aware the Banks have not passed any information to the Irish Revenue (yet). The Irish Revenue have yet to get a High Court order to give them the necessary powers. I know they got an order in relation to the Dirt issue on accounts in the R O I, but whats their chances of getting an order relating to disclosure of info. outside of the R O I?


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## Elcato (4 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*

Curious wrote :

There are new rules on the way (FA 2004 I think) that will allow the Revenue to ask all Irish financial institutions with operations abroad to provide details of accounts held by Irish residents. Not sure when they will come into effect.


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## bubbles (4 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*

what about the legislation in the countries where these accounts are held?

what if the legislation in say, Jersey, does not allow financial institutions situated on their territory to disclose info. about their clients???

Just a thought!

Bubbles


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## Tommy (5 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*

In general the authorities in various countries are far more willing to co-operate with each other on anti-tax evasion and anti-money laundering initiatives than they were 15, 20 or 30 years ago. Laws have been changed in several jurisdictions to facilitate such co-operation - something that would have been regarded as unthinkable a generation ago. Another by-product of globalisation I guess.


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## cuchullain (5 Mar 2004)

*non resident account*

If my memory serves, during 2000/2001 the Revenue Commissiones placed adds in newspapers and on notice boards in An Post etc advising that with effect from April 2001 the British Revenue and themselves had come to agreement on disclosing non resident accounts to each other. I cannot recall the exact wording but it was implied that if an account was not closed by April 2001 that the Revenue would be able to get details of interest earned from that time onwards. Hence thousands of border residents who had small accounts in sterling for convenience closed those accounts. 
O:I dont know anything about you, except your probably a Dub. Take someone like me who had two children and like all families went for spins etc on Sundays. In your case you may have gone to Bray, Wicklow mountains, Howth etc etc. In my case while we definitely went to Carlingford and the Cooley peninsula etc we also went to Newcastle, Silent Valley, Kilbroney Park in Rostrevor,Tollymore Forest Park,Slieve Gullion Forest Park, Marble Arch Caves, Armagh Planatarium, Navan Fort, Carrick a Rede rope bridge, Transport and Folk Museum on the Bangor Road outside Belfast. All these places required sterling. When Pres. Clinton spoke in Dundalk he referred to 'your sister city of Newry' 
What I trying to say is that most of us had an account in Northern Ireland for handiness. The fact that we got our few pounds interest tax free was perhaps regarded as a bonus, but never a malicious or thought out tax dodge. After all when the banks were advertising these accounts, where was the counter ads stating that these accounts were illegal etc? ok we should have declared the interest but being normal human beings we didn't assured by the banks etc that our accounts would never be disclosed to anyone. Thus when the Irish Revenue produced the information in 2000/01 that from April 2001 these accounts were accessible to them, most of us took heed and withdrew our savings.For whats it worth I had £101 sterling in my account and the interest for 2000 was 96P and for 2001 just over £1. 
would you have declared those amounts?
and for that the Irish Revenue now want to collect tax, penalties and interest of us. I think I will make them work for it in my case.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (5 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*



> I think I will make them work for it in my case.



Fair enough. I hope when they catch up with you that you get screwed.


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## Tommy (5 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident account*

Hi Cuchullain 

If you only earned £150 in interest over 19 years and the capital invested in the account was tax-paid and legitimate, no-one is going to screw you, so there's no need to get paranoid about it. Lets face it the amounts of tax involved are tiny. However if you ignore it, you could find yourself facing court proceedings for failure to co-operate with a Revenue enquiry. (Without some co-operation or input on your part, Revenue at this stage have no way of knowing whether you ever had £100 or £1,000,000 in your account) If I were you I would sort the problem out right now by writing to the Revenue and explaining briefly the circumstances of the account. After that there is absolutely no need to worry.


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## cuchullain (6 Mar 2004)

*non resident accounts*

oooooooooooooooooohhhhhh I've gone and  done it now, pissed poor old saint pious O the first off.
Thank, Tommy. From my own enquiries I gather that the banks are going to produce a printout of all non resident account holder and the amounts that they held at certain dates. This information will possibly go back about 15 years. Revenue will see the real 'smugglers' from the ordinary joe soaps from these  printouts, however the bank won't be disclosing the amount of interest earned etc so you are probably correct they will have to write to each individual to find out what that interest was. At that stage you might be able to bluff and deny the account was yours, whether, having access to the information from the banks they then consider it worthwhile getting a court order in order to check signatures etc held by the bank is another  matter.One of the carrots for coming out with your hands up is that from 1992 onwards the penalty is only 10% ,wheras if they approach you it reverts to 100%
but as I earned f*** all interest after 1992 anyway it wont make a lot of difference to me or indeed many others. Just as by the way, at  my place of work we were discussing this today and nearly everyone is in the same boat, ie very small amounts on deposit for handiness, bills, holidays etc in Norn Iron. I probably could dig out bills from John of God hospital in Newry from the 80's and prove that what the reason for the account was, but, bottom line, I didn't declare the interest. Neither did I claim medical expenses of course.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (6 Mar 2004)

*Re: non resident accounts*



> oooooooooooooooooohhhhhh I've gone and done it now, pissed poor old saint pious O the first off.



Tax evasion is tax evasion. Good luck. I'll keep an eye out for your name in the papers and Stubb's...


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## cuchullain (7 Mar 2004)

*non  etc*

I'll probably use a non de plume.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (7 Mar 2004)

*Re: non  etc*

A nom de plume might be of more use.


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## sluice44 (7 Mar 2004)

*Re: non  etc*

Touché


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## Tommy (8 Mar 2004)

*Re: non  etc*

Lads I'm closing this thread as the original query has been comprehensively answered.


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## murdoch48 (26 Sep 2009)

Hi everyone,

I´m a newbie, so if this is not in the correct place please forgive me.

I live in Spain [Canary Islands] and was wanting to open a Bank Account with an Irish Bank, however there are no longer any Branches here.

I´m completely disillusioned with the Spainsh Banking System, and as Ireland does accommodate Enlish speaking people, more than other European countries, and is Euro trading, like Spain, an Irish Bank would appear to be the best option.

I understand some Irish Banks offer non-resident postal/internet accounts, but I'm having difficulty finding one. The main reason seems to be that in the past most non-residents have open accounts purely for taxation benefits, and as such those Banks are looking for min investments of €5,000 plus.

All I want is a "Normal" day to day account, as I don´t have large sums of money to stash away!

Can anyone suggest, or know of a Bank which offers non-resident accounts which do not need a min investment of €5,000 please?

Roger Murdoch


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