# Summoned for dangerous driving after receiving a fixed penalty notice!



## cuz (4 Feb 2017)

Good evening
I was involved in a car chase with the gardai last year from which I escaped. I volontarily went to the station a couple of days later and made a statement.

A number of weeks later I got a fixed charge penalty notice for failure to stop for a guard or something to that effect, €80 fine and two penalty points. I was delighted at how easily I had gotten off.

How wrong could I have been, last week a different guard called to my house and presented me with a summons for dangerous driving. 

Would this be normal to get a small penalty first followed by a more serious one?
Could this affect my chances of getting a visa to say the US in the future?
Also how much roughly would a solicitor cost for this sort of charge?

Many thanks


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## vandriver (4 Feb 2017)

With up to 6 months jail and a 20k fine(admittedly these are maximums),as well as a mandatory 2 year loss of licence,how can you afford not to get a solicitor ?


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## cuz (4 Feb 2017)

I'll definitely be getting a solicitor, I was simply wondering how much it would roughly cost?


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## vandriver (5 Feb 2017)

And my point is that whatever it costs,you need to find it.(you could sell your car)


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## cuz (5 Feb 2017)

If you could answer the questions that I'm asking I'd greatly appreciate it.


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## Leper (6 Feb 2017)

Well, Cuz you cocked up and it took you two days to own up.  Whether you needed to own up or not will be relevant in court. How much is it going to cost you in legal fees?  I don't know, it won't be cheap and it looks like you will be playing with the leniency of a judge in the near future too.


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## emeralds (6 Feb 2017)

Is dangerous driving a criminal offence? If it is and you are convicted then yes it will affect your chances of getting a visa to the US.


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## Leo (6 Feb 2017)

Let's try to stick to the questions asked by the OP and let the judge pass judgement.


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## peemac (8 Feb 2017)

The OP committed two offences and gardai are quite rightly taking action on both. The gardai probably have footage of the chase and this will be presented.  
Dangerous driving conviction usually has a driving ban & hefty fine and years of high insurance costs.

If you have a good solicitor you may get it reduced to driving without due care if you are very lucky.


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Feb 2017)

Surely there should be additional charges here?

Driving dangerously is one thing; a car chase and "escaping a car chase" are surely more serious?


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Feb 2017)

cuz said:


> Could this affect my chances of getting a visa to say the US in the future?



Yes ... even before Trump arrived on the scene.


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## peemac (8 Feb 2017)

Regarding travel to USA (or Australia),  if you are convicted of dangerous driving  you will have to apply for a visa. The tourist waiver system is not available to you.

For Australia,  you'd have about 20% chance,  for usa, probably less than 1%.

Assuming you are over 18, your record does not get expunged (that may change),  so it will stay with you for life.

Hence I'd advise getting good solicitor,  try and plea bargain to careless driving,  apologise profusely and show why you will not act in such a way again.


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## Ravima (10 Feb 2017)

Whatever it costs, try to plead guilty to S51A1 - undue care and attention - no endorsement and a fine.


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## thedaddyman (13 Feb 2017)

So yes, it's a potential criminal conviction as you could be jailed. Potentially this could result in the USA not not granting you a Visa, you are required to state any convictions when applying. You should contact the US embassy for more details

If you are unable to afford a solicitor you should look to see if you have an entitlement to Free Legal Aid


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## JG0009 (7 Mar 2017)

You were a headbanger going back down and making a voluntary statement. Who told you that was a good idea?


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## cuz (12 Mar 2017)

Thanks for the replies, could anyone give me a ballpark figure?



JG0009 said:


> You were a headbanger going back down and making a voluntary statement. Who told you that was a good idea?



A retired garda told a pal of mine. What makes you say that?


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## DirectDevil (4 Apr 2017)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Surely there should be additional charges here?
> 
> Driving dangerously is one thing; a car chase and "escaping a car chase" are surely more serious?



The car chase element might constitute an *aggravating* element of the evidence on the dangerous driving charge as distinct from a separate charge. 
The Gardaí have already elected to deal with the failure to stop matter by the fixed penalty notice so nothing further can arise in relation to that specific issue.


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## DirectDevil (4 Apr 2017)

JG0009 said:


> You were a headbanger going back down and making a voluntary statement. Who told you that was a good idea?



The Gardaí probably had enough evidence to identify the vehicle and to follow the evidence trail thereafter.

However, two vital proofs in RTA cases like this is are *identification* of the suspect and *proof of driving* by that suspect. If Gardaí cannot offer evidence of proofs to the required standard the accused has to be acquitted. The standard of proof is the criminal one of beyond reasonable doubt. Against this background the OP has to be given substantial credit for an early admission of facts and total co-operation on his initiative i.e. he went to the Gardaí before they came to him.

I note an earlier suggestion in the thread of a plea to a lesser charge of driving without due care and attention which I assume to mean the specific charge of careless driving. On the basis of what has been posted here I would expect that the OP would do well to get the prosecution to agree to accept a plea of guilty of careless driving.

OP you should get a written quote from any solicitor before you instruct them to deal with the case. Prices vary considerably but you could be looking at a couple of hundred euros even allowing for VAT @23%. The solicitor's charge should reflect the amount of work that goes in to the case and any complexities that might arise.

In short summary, the best option here looks like a plea to careless driving with heavy argumentation of several meritorious points of mitigation. (I am saying this on the basis that you may have made incriminating admissions of fact after being cautioned.)


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## Ravima (7 Apr 2017)

S51A1 - undue care and attention - a lesser charge than S52 careless driving. 

Depending on the judge, you might get probation act for a donation to charity. Whilst I accept this is not a universally admired method of justice, it would mean you are free of any conviction. If you are intending to emigrate, this would be a good result for you.


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## cuz (7 Sep 2017)

Hello, I'm due in court in six weeks time for the third time and I was wondering if a map from this site would be acceptable in court? townlands.ie
Also if anyone was wondering the case will cost me €570 for the three visits.


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## Leo (11 Sep 2017)

cuz said:


> Hello, I'm due in court in six weeks time for the third time and I was wondering if a map from this site would be acceptable in court? townlands.ie




That site is just using Open Street Mapping. It's open source, so is prone to some errors, whether it's acceptable will probably depend on the purpose you intend to use it for, and the level of accuracy required.


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