# Can cats be declawed?



## MargeSimpson (12 Apr 2005)

We have two cats. They finally hit 6months old, so we got them spayed. Now they are out and about and happier for it. But now they are jumping up and down off our cars and scratching the paint. Needless to say 'Homer' and I are not too impressed.  Has anyone any success dealing with a problem like this? Can cats be declawed??


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## Marion (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Yes they can. Google threw up this [broken link removed]. 

Marion


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## ClubMan (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Some people consider this a very cruel thing to do to a cat. Why not consider some of the alternatives listed in the article or maybe donate them to owners that are less car proud instead?


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## MargeSimpson (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I agree. It does seem very cruel. It would leave the cats 'handicapped'. I'm not THAT car proud. I'll turn a blind eye.


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## DOBBER22 (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				MargeSimpson said:
			
		

> I agree. It does seem very cruel. It would leave the cats 'handicapped'. I'm not THAT car proud. I'll turn a blind eye.


 
Oh but what about the poor cars! They need lovin too


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## Sue Ellen (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Gently spray water on them.*

JR says if you were to lightly spray water on them any time you catch them on the cars they might get the message and stay away from them.


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## MargeSimpson (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

sueellen, you have to catch them first! 
They climb up underneath the cars into the engine compartment and settle down for a kip.
Anyone would think they were being miss treated. Two weeks ago we spent 100 euro on a kennel for them. Lined with their favourite blankets and cushions. 
Obviously what I need is two toddlers running around then my priorites would be refocused very quickly!!!


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## DOBBER22 (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I vote for the toddlers they are way funnier


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## z107 (12 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

cats>cars

In many countries it's illegal to declaw cats for cruelty reasons. It might be illegal in Ireland.

Paws have claws.


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## HB1 (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

It is illegal under EU law.Name me the person who does so and I bring him/her to court.
Why do you keep pets at all,Marge?!
If you need a substitute for a baby-I am going the psychological way-you could amputate their legs as well....


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## sherib (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I'd agree with previous posters that it would be cruel to get them declawed but congratulations on getting them spayed. Not a cat person but have been feeding two wild cats (actually very timid) for almost eight years now so have been observing their behaviour. 

I often see them sharpening their claws on railway sleepers in my garden or else on the bark of a particular tree. They seem to like softish wood they can make an impression on i.e. claw out splinters of wood. If you could get some suitable wooden material maybe that could solve the problem? A vet or a veterinary nurse could advice on that I'd imagine. Wouldn't it be awful for them if they couldn't scratch?


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## Christine (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

My response will probably not go well after reading all the others but...my 2 cats were declawed at the age of 4 months which is what my Vet advised. They had abslutley no problems but it can be more difficult if the cat is older. That was done 13 yrs ago because I wanted mine to be house cats which was also advised by the Vet for a lenghty life of likely 18-20 years.  Most outdoor cats to not live that long.  I love my cats madly and also love to not have clawed up furniture. Declawed cats have a much more difficult time of defending themselves so I would only do this if you keep your cats inside. That said, now everyone can reply and disagree with me.


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## Unregistered (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

What do you mean by "house cats"?  

Do they not go outside at all?  Are they under kitty house arrest?


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## ClubMan (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

"House cats" always struck me as a _US/Canadian_ thing where they keep them indoors all (and I mean all) the time. A close family friend in _Toronto _has three that never venture outdoors. Mind you, I was recently speaking to a former colleague who lives near _Seattle _who mentioned one part of the rationale for keeping them indoors in his area - racoons will eat them if they're outdoors!


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## Unregistered (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				MargeSimpson said:
			
		

> We have two cats. They finally hit 6months old, so we got them spayed. Now they are out and about and happier for it. But now they are jumping up and down off our cars and scratching the paint. Needless to say 'Homer' and I are not too impressed.  Has anyone any success dealing with a problem like this? Can cats be declawed??


Yes, they can be declawed - and it is a horrible, abusive, mutilation to any living thing that leaves them unable to climb or fight to defend themselves. Try pulling off one of Homer's toenails the next time he leaves the toilet seat up before you proceed with your plan. I've never heard of cats scratching car paintwork. Their claws are normally withdrawn inside the paw.

If you can't keep them, find a good home for them - Don't mutilate them.


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## Unregistered (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> "House cats" always struck me as a _US/Canadian_ thing where they keep them indoors all (and I mean all) the time. A close family friend in _Toronto _has three that never venture outdoors. Mind you, I was recently speaking to a former colleague who lives near _Seattle _who mentioned one part of the rationale for keeping them indoors in his area - racoons will eat them if they're outdoors!




The main reason for not letting cats out in the US is that they may come back with Rabies after a fight with a racoon or squirrel.


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## MargeSimpson (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I have no intention of declawing them now. Until last night I didn't know what was involved or how it affected them. I just saw scratches on the car and figured it was a solution. 
And as for the toddler comment.....HB1, that was in jest!


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## legend99 (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I know if you do declaw them you cannot leave them out any more as they are essentially defenceless and will get the crap kicked out of them in any fights...


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## MissRibena (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I have a cat (who coincidentally is called Homer!) and I love him to bits. For the first couple of months, I didn't let him out at all as the last cat I had went walkies and never returned   He's eight months old and has been spayed.  Now that he's outside all day he doesn't bother with his scratcing post and if If he looks like he's going to claw anything indoors now, I just have to say "Homer!" and he knows it's bold.

It works when he tries to drink from the loo too. I don't know why cats are always trying to drink out of puddles and water features (my mother's cats) when they have fresh water in their bowl. I used to think that it was tap water was too cold but it's not.

Rebecca


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## casiopea (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Unregistered said:
			
		

> What do you mean by "house cats"?
> 
> Do they not go outside at all?  Are they under kitty house arrest?



House cats are usually pure breed cats, who are born into what is called "kitten pools".  These are cats who's parents were indoor cats and parents parents etc. They are usually very purely breed and therefore quite "delicate".  Like birds that were born in captivity (ie canaries) it is actually quite dangerous to let these cats out unless you do have a very closed garden/space.  Usually claws or no claws they wouldnt do well in an attack from another cat and they certainly wouldnt be able to negiotate roads and cars.  Quite often they are killed by car also immediately once they are let out.


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## Noor77 (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Oh dear.
I really, really hope you don't get them declawed Marge - I'm glad you have changed your mind. Declawing is totally inhumane. I can't believe the unregistered poster "Christine" ...getting her cats declawed and keeping then inside constantly. People like that shouldn't be allowed keep pets. I have two cats myself, a brother and sister, and they love being outisde...and are fond of getting lazy inside by the fire too! There are particular trees in the garden that they love scratching, and we also have a patch of catnip that they are crazy about  They do tend to sit on top of the cars though - they especially love getting on them just after they have been driven so they can sit on the bonnet which will still be warm from the engine running.


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## MissRibena (13 Apr 2005)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Don't know what planet I was on earlier when I posted as I left out the main point I intended to make; that when Homer was inside all day he would get notions about scratching the carpet on the stairs or the arm of the couch. Every time he did, I picked him up and put him at his scratching post and he got the message eventually. Maybe Marge could try that.

Rebecca


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## Tarquin (21 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

I grew


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## Sherman (21 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Tarquin said:
			
		

> I grew up with our cat being a house cat and I don't think it was right. At home at that time, we all had the best of intentions, my parents house has farming families on either side, with no regards for animals as pets and several cats were killed viciously by these farmer's dogs. Then my sister found this tiny wild (probably feral) kitten years ago, brought her home and my mother insisted that if she was going to be kept, that she had to be a house cat. Kit Kat is now 13 and seems contented enough but she goes mad with frustration at times when she sees a bird outside she wants to hunt or the leaves blowing. She was never declawed, however, my mother willing to put up with scratches on the furniture. Our vet said its best to declaw them as kittens and only if they are being kept indoors, he had offered to do Kit Kat as a kitten but my mother refused.
> 
> Whatever about the declawing, I wouldn't have a cat house bound, that is also cruel in its own way. And you live in constant fear of them getting out (an open window or door) and knowing they wouldn't survive, through you imprisoning them to begin with.


 
I wasn't going to bother replying to this because frankly I'm sick to the teeth of arguing with people, but what the hey. For further info and extensive scientific/veterinary links on what I'm about to say, search for other 'discussions' on this topic I've been involved in here.

Keeping cats indoors is in no way cruel. Current veterinary best practice in the US, and increasingly in Britain, is that keeping cats indoors at all times is the only responsible way to keep cats. Ireland, as usual when it comes to matters of animal welfare, is a generation behind. Please do a google for indoor cats, and actually read up on some of the expert opinions, before spouting off about 'cruelty' etc.

Also, when talking about animals, it helps to avoid anthropomorphisation.

On the subject of declawing, any vets I have met would likely drop someone as a client who requested that their cat be declawed. It is amputation and mutilation purely for human convenience.

If your furniture is that precious, you should not have _any_ animal, nor for that matter children, given the damage kids can do.


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## z107 (21 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



> Keeping cats indoors is in no way cruel



How do you know this? How do the 'experts' know this?

Unless you can become a cat, or directly tune into a cat's brain I can't see how any conclusions can be made one way or another. (This is not quite anthropomorphisation)


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## micamaca (21 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Sherman said:
			
		

> Also, when talking about animals, it helps to avoid anthropomorphisation.


 
Anthro-who?

Anyway Marge I'm sure you've made the right decision in not doing it...and I've enjoyed reading the thread because sometimes I feel people just don't understand or appreciate animals as pets, and look at all these people who do, so that's all for the good! 

Our cat started to scratch our new couch just as I got the wrapping off it, I sprayed her with water in the face immediately as she did it, and I tell yah, she didn't go back for seconds!   A little sprayer for the plants did the trick nicely... and a tree or scratching post, even in the garden helps. We have a palm and the cat just looooves going up, all claws out for a good scratching! She used to sit on neighbours car all the time and he never complained about scratching so it must have worked. 

Best of luck with it, but if you get frustrated remember... 

"one small cat changes coming home to an empy house to coming home."

so you're twice blessed!


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## MargeSimpson (22 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Nope, we did not get our cats declawed. I grew up with a dog so getting cats was a steep learning curve. I hadn't realised that declawing cats was basically handicapping them. We have two happy cats that kept the mice at bay coming from the unoccupied house next door. That would have been a bit difficult without claws!!


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## Cati76 (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				umop3p!sdn said:
			
		

> How do you know this? How do the 'experts' know this?
> 
> Unless you can become a cat, or directly tune into a cat's brain I can't see how any conclusions can be made one way or another. (This is not quite anthropomorphisation)


 
I used to have a cat (she died a year and a bit ago, and still miss her!)
She was a house cat. We live in an apartment, and she used to "walk" my sister to the lift when she was leaving to school in the mornings....but not too far from our door.If she heard the door closing behing her, she would run towards to door, and if it was already closed, she would start meowing and scratching the door until we open it....She didn't like going out at all. We have a balcony (it's a fourth floor, so we were afraid of her jumping trying to catch birds) Only once I saw on the rail, trying to catch a bird, I almost have a heart atack, because i thought she was going to jump!!! She loved being outside in the balcony, looking for a bit of sun, always sit in the warmest part of the house (next to the heater pipes!).
When I moved out from my parents house, and I couldn't look after her when they were on holidays, the started taking her with them. They go to a house in the country, where the door are always open, and she would never leave the garden!! She was just to well look after to go wandering anywhere else.
I would like to get another cat soon, and i'll do my best to "house" train it, so that there is not need for him/ her to go outside!
I think it's no cruel at all living the cats ouside. What it's cruel is not having then in or out....depending on what suits the owner!


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## z107 (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

^ interesting. I think bloke cats tend to like to roam a bit more.


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## Sherman (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				umop3p!sdn said:
			
		

> ^ interesting. I think bloke cats tend to like to roam a bit more.


 
Only when intact. Neutering usually ends any urge to roam widely, and also usually prevents spraying/territory marking.


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## Purple (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

If you own a cat and let it out to roam around the place you should make sure it doesn’t kill anything. The same goes for dogs or any other pets. If de-clawing is what it required to guarantee this then that is what should happen.


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## RainyDay (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Purple said:
			
		

> If you own a cat and let it out to roam around the place you should make sure it doesn’t kill anything. The same goes for dogs or any other pets. If de-clawing is what it required to guarantee this then that is what should happen.


I take it your car never murders any insects or anything while driving around, right? Anyone considering declawing should have their own fingernails & toenails removed first to find out how good an idea it is?


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## Cati76 (27 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				RainyDay said:
			
		

> I take it your car never murders any insects or anything while driving around, right? Anyone considering declawing should have their own fingernails & toenails removed first to find out how good an idea it is?


You read my mind RainyDay.
We got out cat neutered (sp?) and I suffer so much when i saw her after the surgery....her eyes looking at me so sadly! But even for house cats it has to be done just in case!....
De-clawing a cat or a dog it's cruel, and i am of the opinion you shouldn't do to somebody (something) what you wouldn't like to be done to you.....
Have you ever scratched with your nails a really expensive clothing or curtains.....? Maybe then you should be declawed to  becasue of that!


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## Sherman (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Cati76 said:
			
		

> You read my mind RainyDay.
> We got out cat neutered (sp?) and I suffer so much when i saw her after the surgery....her eyes looking at me so sadly! But even for house cats it has to be done just in case!....


 
Neutering and spaying has significant health benefits quite apart from the possibility (or certainty if your cat is female and has access to the outdoors) of unwanted litters. The life span of a cat or dog is significantly increased by neutering/spaying. Also, aggression, and the attendant certainty of territory fights etc., which through wounds sustained carry the risk of FIV, FLV etc. is greatly reduced.

Also, de-clawing is even more horrific than the human equivalent of removal of finger and toe nails. It is more like having your fingers and toes chopped off at the first joint on each finger/toe.


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## legend99 (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				umop3p!sdn said:
			
		

> How do you know this? How do the 'experts' know this?
> 
> Unless you can become a cat, or directly tune into a cat's brain I can't see how any conclusions can be made one way or another. (This is not quite anthropomorphisation)



In fairness, we know stuff about babies. You don't have to be able to talk to an animal to know what it does.


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## micamaca (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Purple said:
			
		

> If you own a cat and let it out to roam around the place you should make sure it doesn’t kill anything. The same goes for dogs or any other pets. If de-clawing is what it required to guarantee this then that is what should happen.


 
Cats hunting and killing birds etc is a part of nature. I don't like it either and I even stopped my cat from killing a mouse twice but I understand why she does it.  It's their natural instinct, just as birds eat worms and mice eat whatever it is mice eat...the only difference is cats are fed so they don't eat their kill, but that doesn't stop their natural instinct. Look at all that mankind kills just for sport, that to me is much more unnatural.


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## Lumpsum (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

Some vets will put mini caps on a cat's claws. Don't know how this sits in the cruelty stakes.  Perhaps it leaves them with enough grip to climb and do normal cat things, while blunting the damage to furniture, so to speak.  Don't know, but a vet will.


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## Lumpsum (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

This site has stuff about it.

[broken link removed]

Seems they do blunt cats self defence ability, so not for cats that wander in the great outdoors.


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## Gordanus (28 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*

A cat that has been brought up from kittenhood indoors eg in an apartment doesn't suffer.  A cat that previously had freedom to roam will not be happy if kept indoors.  I always understood that declawing was only for apartment-dwelling cats.   
I'm glad my cat hunts!  She gets rid of excess spiders indoors!  (Excess, because she doesn't get them all).  She's not a great hunter judging by 3 birds in 5 years.
The problem with training cats is that you do need to be around a lot of the time; otherwise they do the undesired behaviour when you're not there.  Rebecca, my understanding of traininig animals is not to use their name as an admonition or they'll associate their name with being given out to, and think you're giving out when you're just calling them for supper - just a hint! (Tone of voice may help though)


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## RainyDay (29 Jul 2006)

*Re: Can cats be declawed??*



			
				Gordanus said:
			
		

> I'm glad my cat hunts!  She gets rid of excess spiders indoors!  (Excess, because she doesn't get them all).  She's not a great hunter judging by 3 birds in 5 years.


Cats don't have a great hunting instinct. If they haven't be thought to hunt by their mother, they won't make great hunters. This is yet another good reason not to take a kitten away from the mother too early.


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## Gordanus (29 Jul 2006)

well, she'd like to hunt!  She spends a lot of time in the garden lookiing at the birds with a twitching tail, and goes mad if a moth comes indoors.  Got her from a rescue centre so don't know how old when parted from her mother.  But all her kitten-play was stalking and pouncing.  And she still will attack your feet if you move them while lying in bed.  Great fun.


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## bocade (29 Jul 2006)

Don't declaw.  Cats need claws as a defence mechanism if the are outdoors at all.  

I am surprised at the cats scratching the car.  I have never experienced this with our cars/cats and they love sitting on the bonnet.  Water is a good way to stop a cat going/being somewhere.  They hate getting wet but I would suggest on good drenching (not a sprinkle), it doesn't harm them but gets the message across in one go. I have done this when out cats started eating the dogs food,a single saucepan of water and it never happened again.


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## casiopea (31 Jul 2006)

On the furniture issue, surely the solution is to trim the cats claws?  Not Declaw but trim, a cat scratches furniture to sharpen his claws (for defense) and to trim his claws.  Sometimes if a cats claws get too long you can hear him or her "tapping" rather than "padding" across your lino or wooden floor. If the claws are too long it can irriate his pads and be quite painful.  If you trim (you can buy a claw scissors in vets or most good pet shops or you can go to the vet and he'll do it) youve decreased the need for pussy to scratch your furniture, he'll still give it a shot but the need will be gone. He'll still have claws for fighting and giving his owners a quick swipe to remind them who's boss.


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## Purple (31 Jul 2006)

According to [broken link removed] site cats kill 75 Million birds a year in the UK. The RSPB say it's 55 million and that it has no significant effect on bird populations. This may well be the case but cats are pets and so are not a part of a balanced ecosystem. They can, and in many cases have, caused huge problems where they live in large numbers. If de-clawing is too cruel so be it but I don't accept that a bell on their collar is a form of torture. If there is no humane way of controlling cats then they are not suitable to be kept as pets. The argument that it's their nature is not good enough. If my dog kept getting into my neighbours garden I would not shrug my shoulders and say he’s a good climber.


			
				RainyDay said:
			
		

> I take it your car never murders any insects or anything while driving around, right??


 Are you serious?


			
				RainyDay said:
			
		

> Anyone considering declawing should have their own fingernails & toenails removed first to find out how good an idea it is?


 Does this apply to your balls if you are considering neutering?


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## casiopea (31 Jul 2006)

Purple said:
			
		

> According to [broken link removed] site cats kill 75 Million birds a year in the UK. The RSPB say it's 55 million and that it has no significant effect on bird populations....but cats are pets and so are not a part of a balanced ecosystem.



Hi purple,

I think you are raising an interesting point but Im kind of confused by it.

Domesticating cats, I would think would reduce the number of cats out there, and therefore the effect on birds.
Domestic cats and cats in cat homes are usually nutuered. If cats werent domesticated and allowed go wild (Im making the assumption here that you cant kill or nutuer them as that is also playing with the ecosystem) they would multiply in vast numbers and as they arent feed by owners are hungry and likely to kill more. The impact on birds would increase exponentially.




			
				Purple said:
			
		

> They can, and in many cases have, caused huge problems where they live in large numbers.



This would very much be the case with wild cats in my example above, by domesticating them they are less likely to form and hunt in packs.

I think you are raising an interesting point about domestication and the impact on eco systems, obviously the pros and cons apply to all domestic animals and not just cats.


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## Purple (31 Jul 2006)

I heard a lady from the DSPCA on the radio a year or so ago. She said that the number of feral cats in Dublin would outnumber people within a few years. I can't find any solid information on this though. The point about cat’s impact on wildlife is that they are not part of the ecosystem in the first place so any impact should be minimised.


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## RainyDay (31 Jul 2006)

Purple said:
			
		

> Does this apply to your balls if you are considering neutering?


Touché!

I don't quite see the logic of your concern about cats not being part of the eco-system. Your car isn't part of the eco-system, and I guess it kills millions of insects on its regular travels. Should we be seeking to minimise your car use?

[No, of course I'm not serious - but it's the same logic, isn't it?]


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