# If we're struck off, what's the worst that can happen?



## ApplePie (3 May 2006)

My husband and I had our own business which we put into voluntary liquidation a while ago. The business didnt have enough funds to appoint a liquidator and our accountant was unable to locate one. We held a creditors meeting to which all creditors were invited. Most creditors were owed a relatively small amount and they were aware of the circumstances behind the collapse of the business. Those creditors didn' t attend. It was only about 3 creditors who attended and they decided not to appoint a liquidator themselves. 
Our largest creditor is the Revenue Commissioners.

We have started on the road to Voluntary Strike off and have a letter of no objection from the Revenue Commissioners. As part of the vol strike off, we must product accounts which, firstly, we do not have the money to pay for and which secondly, we do not have the time to produce. We received a letter which tells us that unless all accounts are completed within 2 weeks, we will be struck off involuntarily. The amount of work involved in getting stuff to an accountant that we cannot afford, is phenomenal and cannot be done by me. 

A little bit of background........ We went into liquidation as a result of the business losing money, as a result of us taking our eye off the ball for a number of months. My husband was seriously ill, we lost a very close family member and I had a major illness... all in the space of a few months. The business spiralled out of control and our only option was to wind it up. Our health problems were such that to continue would have been dangerous to our health and family. As a result of everything that has happened, my husband (who is the business brain in the operation!) is very severely depressed at the moment. He suffers from clinical depression and cannot handle stress right now. We know this will pass as he is very close to recovery and we know that my old hubby will be back with us again. But the crux of the problem is that I cannot tell him that we're about to be struck off. From my knowledge of his illness, I know that it could push him over the edge and I'm terrified that if I do, he and our family will become a statistic.

I don't understand the ins and outs of the accounts side of things. That's all his 'baby' if you know what I mean. 

So, I'm trying to figure out whether we should just let the strike off take place. Our old accountant told us at the time that he would always be able to testify that we never traded recklessly so we have that going for us. Does the letter of no objection from the Revenue Commissioners mean anything for the future?

Sorry, I should have clarified... our only fear, in terms of money owed, is that the Revenue Commissioners will come after us for the amount owed and will demand it now. Does the letter from them mean that they have written if off and won't look for it?

So, to summarise... what is the worst that can happen to us? 

Can the RC request all monies to be paid by us as directors? 

It was a limited company, I understand it loses it's limited liability status once it's struck off - is that correct?

Can any of the other creditors (who have told us they have written off the debt) come seeking money?

Does the fact that we have no money or property stand to us in any way?

What else will happen? Will we be named personally in Stubbs Gazette or some such publication? Will it be a quiet affair or a very public hanging??

Any advice or information you have would be so gratefully appreciated. I haven't discussed this with my husband as, frankly, right now, he's not able for it.

Thanks so much for reading this!

Sarah


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## Purple (3 May 2006)

I can't advise you of the ins and out's of this but have you made your contact in the Revenue Commissioners office (whomever signed the letter) aware of your background and the circumstances that you are in health wise (backed up with letters from your and your husbands doctors?) They are quite reasonable and take this sort of think into account. They are not looking to hang you out to dry, just to get what you owe then within a reasonable time frame. The worst thing you can do is to ignore them. A phone call with a view to a face-to-face meeting will do no harm and might do some good. MABS or the Citizens advice Bureau might be able to help you, or point you in the right direction as well.
Best of luck whatever happens.


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## woods (3 May 2006)

The most important thing is to take care of your health or all the rest will not matter. You have got to try to stop worrying about it (or at least worry less). There is a limit to what you can do and when you have done all you can then try to get it out of your head.
They can not take what you do not have and lots of people suffer setbacks like this and bounce back. There is no shame attached to you as you have done all you can. 
Contact everyone concerned and put your case to them but remember that the company is not you, and the company failed, not you.


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## runner (3 May 2006)

Previous comments correct. The Revenue know many business fail for genuine reasons and wont hammer your. Talk to them as suggested. When there is no obvious fraud and genuine health issues they tend to be pretty fair. Look after yourself and be grateful its not a bank thats owed money!


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## ApplePie (4 May 2006)

Thanks so much for your replies folks. You have really put my mind at ease. Hopefully I can sort something with the RC. We'll have no problems convincing them that we have nothing bar health problems!

Apart from the RC, can anyone tell me what else might happen if the strike off just goes ahead.

Thanks again. You're all very good to reply to me!

Sarah


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## Delber (4 May 2006)

If you could get a letter from each creditor stating that they have no intention of pursuing their debt with you. The CRO website can also outline the consequeces of being involuntarily struck off ( I think it means you are restricted from mangaging a company in the future). You should remember your Health is your wealth and that business' fail everyday and  it can be due to reasons that are not as mitigating as yours and these people seem to survive to trade again. Dont be too worried as I'm sure in your situation people will understand and even be sympathetic. Best of LucK in the future and be sure to mind your health.


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## jgently (22 May 2006)

Hi Sarah,
I have just finished a start-your-own-business course with FAS. The middle-aged gentleman giving the course has been helping out businesses for about 30 years, working for FAS, Enterprise Ireland etc. so he's been around the block so-to-speak.
Anyways, among the many pieces of good advice he gave us over the 10 weeks, a couple will hopefully ease your mind.
Firstly, he said that you should always talk to the revenue, that they are not ogers. If you get into problems, honest problems, they can actually be there to help sometimes. They do not want to squeeze anybody dry mainly because it is just not in their interest.
Secondly, he gave a short history of limited companies. They were originally set up in the south of England for merchant traders as to risk your own money in a ship coming from Africa that may well sink was just too much for anyone to risk. Essentially companies were set up to allow people to fail every now and then without the consequences being too dire. 
Thirdly, most companies fail, that's a fact. Ask any successful entrepreneur how many times it took them to make it. If they were held personally responsible then the word "entrepreneur" would cease to exist, commerce as we know it would not exist , there would be no enterprise and the economy would stagnate. By having the get-up-and-go to set up a company you're doing the government and the economy a favor!

On a more personal, perhaps practical note. My father suffers from something similar to your husband and my mother found herself in a similar position, although not on the same scale (He retired early and there was a rented house with unkept accounts that had to be sold off). She went in to the revenue (on Mount St I think), very worried, with a box of receipts and a (true) story. The very nice person behind the desk took everything, helped her with all the forms and she came out of it with a small refund in the end. Not the same I know but she was mighty relieved at the time.

Best of luck anyway

Jack.


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## cardigan (22 May 2006)

Hi Sarah,

Just a quick point about the company being involuntarily struck off the register. 

If the company has been struck off involuntarily for failure to submit accounts, you have one year to put it back on the register relatively cheaply. (After one year, you need to go to the High Court to put it back in place - can be very expensive). So the upshot is that you have a year to sort your affairs out and then arrange for it to be voluntarily struck off, as long as it has no debts. If the company hasn't yet been struck off, you could call the CRO and ask them for an extension or to waive late filing fees. It is rare for them to waive the late fees but I have seen it happen once!

Given that you have some extra time to produce the accounts, will your accountant allow you to pay the fees over a period of time or allow you a discount given your circumstances? Is there someone (business studies student?) who can put together the accounts for you cheaply/for nothing which you can then send in to the accountant to audit?

If I was in your situation, I would prefer to strike off the company voluntarily, as long as the company had no debts. Leaving the company get struck off involuntarily could result in problems for the directors. (More on www.cro.ie and www.odce.ie). Then again, this may not be a priority at this time for you.

All the best to you and your husband.


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## bond-007 (23 May 2006)

The CRO strikes off thousands of companies every year for failure to file accounts. They can't possible chase all the directors, they simply don't have the resources. 

Worry about your health and don't worry about what might never happen.


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## nlar (26 Jun 2006)

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## Purple (27 Jun 2006)

nlar,
They will not take your family home and they will not put you in prison. I would suggest that you and your husband call Revinue and request a meeting. Then tell them the truth about your ccircumstances.
Ignoring the issue will not make it go away and the interest will be added every year. They will work with you if you show a willingness to face the issue but if they are not aware of your circumstances they will not be able to help.


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## Ms X (27 Jun 2006)

Hi everybody, 

Without getting into too much detail.............the whole purpose of setting up a limited liability company is that it becomes a separate legal identity. This means that if the company is sued, then you as a person has NOT been sued. It is the company that has ben sued. 

In the same situation when it comes to liquidating companies..........taken that you as a director of a company has been running it to the best of your abilities (no frauds, scams, etc.)..............then you are in the clear. 

If the company goes under so does the debts. With a personal liability company you personally are never owned any one else money...........this is because of the limited liabililty company. It servers as a shield. 

If the company is liquidated the creditors wont get their money.........and thats that.


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## howareya (28 Jun 2006)

Mr X,  i taught it wasn't as clear cut as that anymore.  Yes the company has limited liability and if it gets sued the directors won't be liable but are the courts not looking through the "company" to the directors and following the director these days.
Maybe this it is in cases where it is proven that the directors have traded recklessly or there has been fraud or something like that.


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## deem (28 Jun 2006)

Ms X said:
			
		

> Hi everybody,
> 
> Without getting into too much detail.............the whole purpose of setting up a limited liability company is that it becomes a separate legal identity. This means that if the company is sued, then you as a person has NOT been sued. It is the company that has ben sued.
> 
> ...


 
Thats the thing though if the company is struck off for failure to submit accounts I believe the incorporation thing goes out the window and the directors can then be subject to some personal liability.   as failure to submit accounts gets you witht the fraud, scams bit, It is a chance that people are taking all over Ireland and many have gotten away with it however it is something that's being clamped down on

I certainly know the new companys act thats due out shortly has a whole host of different situations where people should avoid at all costs being involuntarily struck off


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## nlar (28 Jun 2006)

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