# Contributory Irish/UK pensions



## Nollaig (20 Oct 2017)

Hi
Quick question about contributory pensions. If a person has enough contributions both in Ireland and in the UK, can that person claim a contributory pension in both places


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## jpd (20 Oct 2017)

Yes, under EU rules both countries take into account the total of your contributions, both countries combined, to calculate your pension entitlement and then pay a proportion of that depending on the contributions you made in each country.


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## jpd (20 Oct 2017)

Of course, Brexit may change all that for the UK


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## Nollaig (24 Oct 2017)

Hi
Thanks for the reply. I am not certain if I explained myself properly. My query is can I claim a contributory pension in bot countries separately if I have sufficient contributions, both ordinary and voluntary in both countries.


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## jpd (24 Oct 2017)

Yes, but you will not get the full amount from both countries, only a proportion.


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## Conan (24 Oct 2017)

Remember that if you claim two pensions, the level of the UK pension is much lower than in Ireland. So you might need to consider whether two small pensions is better than having the UK contributions added to your Irish contributions to get a higher Irish pension.


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## Grueler (24 Oct 2017)

Any idea what the proportion is ?


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## Conan (24 Oct 2017)

It all depends on your record in each country. You neeed to enquire from each as to what the separate payments might be and then check with the Dept of Soc Protection as to what you might get if your UK record was added to your Irish record.


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## jpd (24 Oct 2017)

How it works - or at least, how it is supposed to work

1. Each country will calculate how much you are entitled to only taking into account your contributions in each state - this is minimum entitlement ie two separate pensions based on your contribution record in each country.

2. Each country will also calculate what your entitlement would be had all of your contributions been made in each country. They will then reduce this in accordance with the ratio of contributions made in the country compared to the total contributions.

The higher of the two is your entitlement from each country, so you will end up with two pensions.

If you apply to the Dept of Social protection for a pension in Ireland and let them know your contribution record in the UK (with details of when and how much, etc you contributed) they will contact the UK on your behalf and do all the paperwork. I think you need to allow up to 6 months for the process to be carried out.


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## Grueler (25 Oct 2017)

How does this work in relation to retirement dates, my british pension is payable at 66 while my Irish pension wont be due until I reach 67?


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## jpd (25 Oct 2017)

Sorry, no idea. I presume that you can claim one when your 66 and the other when you are 67 - contact the Dept of Social Protection their website is full of info and you can always ring them if needed https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/a-retired-or-an-older-person.aspx


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## Black Sheep (29 Oct 2017)

You can have a full UK pension and a 98% Irish providing you have sufficient contributions in both countries.


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## Nollaig (1 Nov 2017)

Thanks for all the replies, I have made voluntary contributions in England to bring up my contributions and it is a relief to know I can claim the contributory pension in the two countries.


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## Carnmore (7 Feb 2018)

Black Sheep said:


> You can have a full UK pension and a 98% Irish providing you have sufficient contributions in both countries.



If the contribution record entitles the claimant to 100% from UK and Ireland, why only 98%?


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## noproblem (7 Feb 2018)

I'm not judging anyone but I am puzzled. How can someone have worked and contributed enough over the required time in 2 countries to get 2 full pensions?


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## Protocol (7 Feb 2018)

It's possible to get a full Irish pension with ten years work.


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## noproblem (7 Feb 2018)

I'm guessing that's because if you were self employed and the business went under or whatever and unemployment kicked in and you then paid a yearly contribution towards the pension? But to get a full pension from 2 countries?


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## Protocol (8 Feb 2018)

Start paying PRSI in Irl at age 54.

Pay at least 520 conts.

Retire at 66, you will get the full CSP.


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Feb 2018)

Protocol said:


> Start paying PRSI in Irl at age 54.
> 
> Pay at least 520 conts.
> 
> Retire at 66, you will get the full CSP.


Retire at 54 /55 on a D stamp work or get  PRSI credits  Retire and get two Irish government  state paid pensions One at 54/55 and another at 66,

Same goes for people who worked in family type  family business  and know the way around the system putting off paying PRSI until 10 years before they reach pension age,


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## Early Riser (8 Feb 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Retire at 54 /55 on a D stamp work or get PRSI credits Retire and get two Irish government state paid pensions One at 54/55 and another at 66,



I' m not sure about this:

-Retiring at 55 will mean an actuarially reduced pension (unless in one of the occupations in which  normal retirement is at this age, eg, gardai, prison officers). Also, you are unlikely to have full service at this age. So either an actuarially reduced pension on incomplete service, or a larger deferred pension but still on incomplete service.

-For a pro-rata contributory pension you need a minimum of 260 paid full rate stamps. So you would have to work at least five years. Possibly credits at Class A could be earned after that.(If applying for credits directly after Class D retirement, they would only be at Class D rate.)

-Under the averaging rule the clock started ticking when the first PRSI contribution was made - even if this was a Class D contribution. So no chance of a full Contributory Pension.



Protocol said:


> Start paying PRSI in Irl at age 54.
> 
> Pay at least 520 conts.
> 
> Retire at 66, you will get the full CSP.



But too late to start now - isn't it total contributions only from "around 2020"?


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Feb 2018)

[QUOTE="Early Riser,
There are more loopholes In the prsi system working against the people who funded it all of there life through payroll , public and private sector  when it comes to how much you pay in and how much you get out at retirement,


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## dan rather (8 Feb 2018)

Could you be better off emigrating to work Germany or the Uk if you had worked for 20 years in Ireland but want to maximize your state pension? you could then use discredits toward the foreign pension claim


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Feb 2018)

dan rather said:


> Could you be better off emigrating to work Germany or the Uk if you had worked for 20 years in Ireland but want to maximize your state pension? you could then use discredits toward the foreign pension claim


Not Germany they have a proper system  ,The government in Germany look after the people who worked all of there life they even have a system for looking after people who have paid in for 35 years can retire at 63 if they can no longer do this kind of work because of there age,

In Germany the government  keep looking over there shoulder to make sure the people who pay there wages are looked after

  When the  troika came to town one of the first  changed was to lower PRSI A1 in other words it was only the people on PRSIA1 who paid a usc tax up until then,


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## dan rather (8 Feb 2018)

New plan so, I wonder what about Portugal


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Feb 2018)

dan rather said:


> New plan so, I wonder what about Portugal


5% tax  if you own a property there if you can  move there part time  4 years before you retire,


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## Lisboa (18 Feb 2018)

Nollaig said:


> Thanks for all the replies, I have made voluntary contributions in England to bring up my contributions and it is a relief to know I can claim the contributory pension in the two countries.



That's good; I assume from your original post, you're aiming for both full state pensions? 




noproblem said:


> I'm not judging anyone but I am puzzled. How can someone have worked and contributed enough over the required time in 2 countries to get 2 full pensions?



Well you can continue to pay voluntary contributions after leaving a country, upon meeting certain requirements.

The UK allow you to pay voluntary contributions as long as you had lived / worked there for at least 3 years prior to leaving. 

Ireland allow you to opt to pay voluntary contributions but only if you have already paid 520 weekly contributions. 




Black Sheep said:


> You can have a full UK pension and a 98% Irish providing you have sufficient contributions in both countries.



I haven't heard or read anything about this before; do you have a source for this information? Is the 2% deduction just an Irish tax due to the 'other' source of income?


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## Ciru75 (22 Feb 2018)

Lisboa said:


> Well you can continue to pay voluntary contributions after leaving a country, upon meeting certain requirements.
> 
> The UK allow you to pay voluntary contributions as long as you had lived / worked there for at least 3 years prior to leaving.
> 
> Ireland allow you to opt to pay voluntary contributions but only if you have already paid 520 weekly contributions.


Can you make PRSI (or equivalent) contributions in two countries at the same time?


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## delfio (22 Feb 2018)

Ciru75 said:


> Can you make PRSI (or equivalent) contributions in two countries at the same time?



Yes, you can work and pay PRSI in Ireland and also pay voluntary national insurance contributions usually 'class two' in the UK that only cost around £130 a year and yes if you pay into the UK system for 35 years you get full UK pension as well as full or nearly fulI, (depending on your prsi record), state pension in Ireland. Class two in the UK was due to be abolished this coming  April but they have deferred it for a year, next year it will be the more expensive class three which cost approx £750 a year, still a mighty good deal.  No one knows what will happen to expats pension after the brexit. The UK government have given some assurance that it will continue as it is but as things stand nothing is written in stone. They may very well decide to not gaurantee the triple lock increase every year.

PS, please note you must have lived and worked in the UK for three years before you can pay voluntary national insurance contributions  from abroad. You also need a minimum of ten years contributions to be eligible for minimum pension, the same as what it is like in Ireland.


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## Lisboa (24 Feb 2018)

Ciru75 said:


> Can you make PRSI (or equivalent) contributions in two countries at the same time?



Just to add to the informative answer provided by delfio; it also depends on which two countries, and specifically the rules from the country in which you wish to opt in to pay the voluntary contributions. 

If you come from the UK to Ireland (or any other country), you can opt in to pay UK voluntary contributions (upon meeting the aforementioned 3 year rule) and shouldn't have any problems even if you are paying your compulsory PRSI in Ireland.

But if you went the other way, from Ireland to the UK (or any other country in the EU), then Ireland would likely not accept your voluntary contribution application if you started to work and were paying UK National Insurance. 
Of course, the UK is leaving the EU on 29th March 2019, so possibly after this date it would be possible. 

I'm interested and curious in reading other people's experiences of paying UK voluntary contributions whilst living in Ireland (or elsewhere), and if they are building towards a future of claiming both the 2 full state pensions.

As for myself, well I'm in my 30's, I've been working in Ireland for just over 10 years, so I've just passed the 520 PRSI contribution mark, which I guess will get me something from Ireland at old age, no matter where in the world I may be. I only have a handful of UK contributions to my name, but I'm on the verge of making a lump sum payment to UK Revenue to purchase a handful of backdated years.


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## fistophobia (3 Mar 2018)

Stopping work at age 65, then having to sign on... who are these people?
How is it possible, you have worked 40 odd years, and then cant self finance a year or two on your own, WTF?


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## delfio (3 Mar 2018)

fistophobia said:


> How is it possible, you have worked 40 odd years, and then cant self finance a year or two on your own, WTF?



You don't know people's circumstances, many are on very low wages all their lives, maybe others are helping out adult children etc.

A few days ago, our government had to give a double week fuel allowance as some of our citizens didn't even have a spare €20 to buy an extra bag of coal. I was even surprised at that.


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## Lisboa (4 Mar 2018)

fistophobia said:


> Stopping work at age 65, then having to sign on... who are these people?
> How is it possible, you have worked 40 odd years, and then cant self finance a year or two on your own, WTF?



I suppose that there are a few contracts of employment out there that have written into them a mandatory retirement age of 65. 
The government won't pay them their state pension until their 66th birthday, so they either claim unemployment benefit for 12 months, or find another job.


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