# Incident at work, views please



## moesha (3 Feb 2008)

Something happened me in work and I would like to share it with you and give me your views.  

A new employee and I were talking , general chat while tooing and  frowing to the photocopier, between calls etc.  Still getting the work done but we were talking.  

Manager stops us and says, " are you girls going to be talking all afternoon?"

I answered "no".  Manager says "well good because there is plenty of work to be done now get on with it".

Manager walked away.  I was fuming.  I calmed down after a while and I approached managers office, knocked on the door and asked  if I could have a word.  Manager says " im too busy, I dont have the time, Ill have to see"  I said " well can you talk to me later" Same reply from manager.  I said "well will you let me know when you can have a word with me"  Same reply from manager.  I said "actaully this cant wait, please do not speak to me like im a child in a classroom, especially when we werent the only people talking"  Manager then scowled "leave my office now" .  I didnt answer and i left her office. 

Im in the Civil Service and the office I work in is quite small.  There were two other people in the office at the time and they both were on personal calls.  

What do you  make of this?


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## markowitzman (3 Feb 2008)

doesn't sound too productive if you were just talking and two others on personal calls.
I pity your manager...........oh but this is the public service so productivity not an issue.
Wonder what it costs us the taxpayer per hour to keep this office going?


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## moesha (3 Feb 2008)

If you read my post  properly I did say that I was talking while doing other things.  

Yeah I agree with you on pitying my manager.  SHe is paid to manage and while she did try to do that she just didnt do it the way she should have.  I mean she is paid approx €110k per year for her role. Dont fall off your seat markowitzman.  Im not exaggerating.   For that money you would expect a bit of professionalism on how to deal with talking employees.

Productivity issues are very important in the Public Service as far as I know.  Im in the Civil Service and we do have performance targets which in my case are always met.

Im not going to disclose what office I am located at but if you are interested in how much an office is costing the taxpayer per hour, please feel free to contact the Freedom of Information Section of your department of choice.  The cost of a FOI request if €15 as far as I know.


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## markowitzman (3 Feb 2008)

> Yeah I agree with you on pitying my manager.


Personally I would not work for 110k if staff not rowing with me. 


> but if you are interested in how much an office is costing the taxpayer per hour, please feel free to contact the Freedom of Information Section of your department of choice. The cost of a FOI request if €15 as far as I know.


spare me, tomorrow is Monday!
Re "the incident".....not an incident in my book but others may differ.
As a manager I would record this if it were an ongoing problem and would look at it at reviews etc or before that if serious.


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## Sue Ellen (3 Feb 2008)

Perhaps she was having a very tough day and needs a bit of leeway.

If its still bothering you a lot in a few days time when you have both cooled down then send her an e-mail and ask to meet with her to discuss the matter.


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## Joe1234 (3 Feb 2008)

sueellen said:


> Perhaps she was having a very tough day



Perhaps she was, but thats no excuse for that attitude.


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## ClubMan (3 Feb 2008)

You should take a bullying case against her and sue for €25M at least for emotional trauma.


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## moesha (3 Feb 2008)

Joe1234 said:


> Perhaps she was, but thats no excuse for that attitude.


 

Well thank god, joe feels the same way I do.  I thought it was just me, that she had an attitude.   I could have been going into her to talk about anything, managers are supposed to be approachable.  

I think what might have her riled up is because the new person that started, I happen to know.  NOt personally, but we are both from the same area and we know alot of people in common but not each other.  I think my manager was listening in and was piddled of about that.  Maybe not, but we are supposed to be having a mediation meeting sometime soon to sort this out.  Im so stressed out about it.  At this moment I cannot even comtemplate looking, speaking or listening to my manager.


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## moesha (3 Feb 2008)

Clubman, 

YOu mentioned the "b" word.  Which when mentioned, the incident is taken very seriously.  I didnt mention the word deliberately because thats the way I feel and I wanted you folk to from  a view of the situation without the "b" word even being mentioned.  (God im ramblin)


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## ClubMan (3 Feb 2008)

I was being sarcastic though. Your incident is a non event in my opinion (and you did look for opinions). Anything other than an eventual quiet word about it with the person in question is OTT as far as I can see.


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## markowitzman (3 Feb 2008)

is chatting at the photocopier part of your job description?
worth checking as one never knows with civil service!
Have to agree with clubman.........completely OTT.
My advice would not to bother the manager with this, as if you do I think you might just be letting yourself down.


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## Pulped (3 Feb 2008)

Seems like your manager was well within her rights to tell the two of you to stop yapping and do a bit of work. Also, if she is on 110k per year then presumably she actually does have quite a lot of work to do and doesn't have time to coddle you and worry about your feelings. I'd suggest that you forget about it and encourage the other people in your office to stop wasting our tax dollars.


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## ClubMan (3 Feb 2008)

Pulped said:


> doesn't have time to coddle you


Sounds like something a _Dublin Hannibal Lecter _might do to his victims! Probably with a glass of _Guinness _instead of the _Chianti _though...


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## mercman (3 Feb 2008)

moesha - Sorry to dissagree with you on one matter - The Civil Service is the most unproductive and unhelpful organisation anyone will ever come across. Basically its a job for life no matter how much or how little a Civil Servant does. Does the office you are in even perform a function ??

Regarding your incident - even the Manger is unproductive. Because, and from what you are saying the entire workforce are doing their own thing. She should send a letter to each member of her staff, advising them of their duties  and that personal issues should remain out of the office. Albeit, she just might of had a bad day. Check tomorrow if there is any change.


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## ClubMan (3 Feb 2008)

mercman said:


> Regarding your incident - even the Manger is unproductive.


Ah stop cribbing!


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## Murt10 (4 Feb 2008)

From reading the original post this seems like it may have been a one off. If this is the case then you might as well let it be. We all have bad hair days and irrationally strike out at anyone and anything.

If on the other hand it is happening more regularly them it looks like a case of bullying. The fact that you have gone into her office and had to be ordered out will have been noted. You are obviously well able to stand up for yourself. Bullies tend to leave people like this alone.

You might also like to read the attached. It seems that the Dept. of Finance does not want bullying in the civil service.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=507

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/circulars/circ232005.htm



Murt


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## Havana (4 Feb 2008)

Without meaning to cause offense to anyone, I have to say I find some peoples attitudes on here incredible and sometimes I wouldn't be surprised if people decide to never post again. The OP asked for peoples opinions, and I think they can be given without making someone feel their question is stupid. 

It may seem a non issue to some people but maybe its not to the poster. For what its worth I think the managers attitude was out of line. I manage staff and would never speak to anyone like that. Even if I was having a bad day I would ask them to come back another time, or if I did say something out of line like in this case I would always go back and apologise. I find people are much more productive if you speak to them with respect and create a working environment where thay can actually feel relaxed and enjoy work a bit. If the civil service is unproductive maybe its beacause they have managers like this who don't foster productivity or loyalty from their staff.


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## Joe1234 (4 Feb 2008)

Pulped said:


> Seems like your manager was well within her rights to tell the two of you to stop yapping and do a bit of work.



Of course, but the main problem seems to be the attitude when the op requested a moment to discuss the issue.


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## micmclo (4 Feb 2008)

What happened is a non incident and not worth worrying over.
Go read your employment contract, is talking by the photocopier included?
Actually in a lot of companies you can't even walk into your managers office without being asked to. Be grateful you could even do this.
If this manager is on 110k they must be fairly senior and they have more important issues to do.

Why don't you call in the union, people have striked over less.


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## dewdrop (4 Feb 2008)

please get into the real word and appreciate you have a job..have you got targets etc


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## diarmuidc (4 Feb 2008)

markowitzman said:


> is chatting at the photocopier part of your job description?


While I agree the whole incident is not a major one, I would have to question the ablities of a manager who would infer that having a chat at the photocopier/coffee station/desk would need to be in ones contract to be acceptable. Who do you have working for you? 
Do you actually manage people or a rack of Sun computers?


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## tomred1 (4 Feb 2008)

Moesha,
Perhaps if you didnt mention that you are a civil servant you might have got more sympaty and more constructive views. If this is a once of incident i wouldn't worry about it.


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## quinno (4 Feb 2008)

I'd say this is a one off incident, but may be no harm in noting this in a dairy. Was it once off? Bullying follows a pattern and someone snapping with you once off, within reason, does not constitute bullying. I worked in a semi-state agency where bullying was rife, and I can tell you you'll know when it hits you - very unpleasant experience.


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## DeeFox (4 Feb 2008)

I do not work in the public service and over my years of employment there have been a few "incidents" like this happen to myself or to colleagues and they tend to be forgotten about quickly.  I've snapped at others in the past (and been snapped at myself) and, instead of mediation meetings, have always found that offering to make a cup of tea works wonders!  As others have said, people do have bad days and it is not worth stressing about.  In my opinion a mediation meeting for something like this is a step too far.  A quiet word with your employer the day after the incident (when tensions have eased) should have sufficed - yes, she was unprofessional but if it was a one off and not a pattern of behaviour then maybe it's best forgotten.


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

Only one person can use a photocopier at a time! If two of us were standing chatting at the copier or chatting throughout the day I can assure you that we would be pulled up on it. 5 mins here and there is ok but not throughout the day. 
As for when OP went in to his/her manager she did say she was busy at that time and didn't have time to discuss it there and then but Op pushed for a time etc which would have heightened the situation and gotten the managers back up. 

And to then say "please do not speak to me like im a child in a classroom, especially when we weren't the only people talking"! Dear God, this woman is your boss! She is perfectly entitled to tell you to stop chatting and do sme work. If she had said it in front of a customer or something I would agree. I'd much prefer to get a "unofficial" telling off than be called into the office for a "chat". 
Get over it!


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## MrMan (4 Feb 2008)

> Only one person can use a photocopier at a time!



there were two photocopiers perhaps?


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## Thrifty (4 Feb 2008)

I agree with Quinno in that although you may have felt very annoyed by the incident unless it was a regular thing i would not constitute it as bullying and i feel anyone who has suffered serious bullying would agree. I do think your reaction may have been a bit over sensitive. Perhaps your manager was a bit hacked off that two people appeared to be chatting at the copier while another two were chatting on personal calls. This more than you saying you were a civil servant may account for the lack of sympathy and also the fact that most people who work in the private sector would have to take a different attitude or they would lose their job. 

Regarding your boss's reply - (while not trying to excuse his/her behaviour) it sounds to me that you were actually quite pushy in demanding an appointment. I think possible you could have handled it a little better if perhaps you had left it a little while so that you were both less emotional, had time to calm down and then talked to your boss. I do feel you seem to be demanding a certain level of behaviour from you boss which is right but you have to consider your own as well.


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

MrMan said:


> there were two photocopiers perhaps?


 
As per OP "A new employee and I were talking , general chat while tooing and frowing to the photocopier, between calls etc. Still getting the work done but we were talking"

No mention of 2. Regardless anyway. There are 4 people in our office and yes, sometimes we chat. But usually when we are back and forth between the copier or between calls there are other things we can be doing and we do them instead of talking to each other about our personal lives. And if we did use this opportunity to chat instead of working then we would fall behind. It is a fact that people can not be as productive if talking and working. An occasional 1 or 2 minute conversation is fine but any longer than this and I could see our manager (who is lovely) telling us to get back to work. Just because you reach your targets doesn't mean you stop working for the rest of the month.
And if you get a telling off when you admit yourself that you have been chatting all morning then the right thing to do is realise you probably overdid it, put the head down and work and all will be well in the morning!


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## ClubMan (4 Feb 2008)

Havana said:


> Without meaning to cause offense to anyone, I have to say I find some peoples attitudes on here incredible and sometimes I wouldn't be surprised if people decide to never post again.


Who are you referring to and why would they do that? It's a discussion forum and the original poster asked for opinions which they are receiving. If you have a problem with specific posts and think that they are in breach of the posting guidelines then use the _Report Post_  facility. Otherwise if you don't like what you see then avert your eyes perhaps?


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## Purple (4 Feb 2008)

It's a bad idea to criticize in public but it's no big deal. Move on, it's a non issue.
The idea that this required a mediation meeting is incredible.


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## Sunny (4 Feb 2008)

It is obvious that there is more here than meets the eye. I think we should set up a tribunal to investigate. A few years of trips to Dublin Castle should get to the bottom of it. 

Seriously though, it was poor management by the person involved and was probably rude but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.


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## Welfarite (4 Feb 2008)

I have read the original post a few times, to try and and suss out why a reprimand by management has upset the OP so much. There are two possibilities, 1. There is a history of bad feelings between the OP and the manager or 2.the OP is annoyed because they were reprimanded adn not the new colleague or the other 2 who were on "personal calls". 

This is a minor incident, with the manager possibly laying down the marker for the new employee. They wer well withing their rights to tell people to get on with their work. If the OP feels hard done by, bring it up at the next Performance Management appraisal meeting.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Moesha, I think your manager was very rude and abrupt.  Surely if you share an office you are allowed to talk with your colleagues.  Once the work is being done what's the problem.  You're obviously a very conscientious worker if you meet all your targets.  Also I think it's admirable that you were friendly towards the new employee in turn making her feel welcome.I think your manager should apologise.  I remember a good few years back I worked in a grocery shop part-time.  I was training in a new employee therefore we had to talk i.e. communicate.  The boss came up to me and said stop chatting in front of customers please.  I was fuming considering I was going out of my way to help him by training in the new girl.  The next day I went to his office and had a word.  I explained the situation and told him that I felt very annoyed.  He immediately apologised and said that he misunderstood what was happening.  There was no more about it.  He was very approachable and it was all sorted out.  Your manager seems totally unapproachable, I would demand an apology.  Why single you out of four people.I completely understand where your coming from and I think if people think that it's a non issue or if they want to pass a smart comment then they shouldn't comment at all.  Moesha looked for opinions not a firing squad.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Feb 2008)

If there is a lot of chatting, it can be very disruptive for other people including the manager. So it was quite appropriate for the manager to ask you nicely to stop chatting which she did. 

You were unhappy with the way she spoke to you and you asked for a word. That is fine. She should have used the opportunity to explain to you why she asked you to stop chatting. If she was too busy, then she should have agreed to meet you later. 

You should speak to her today and ask to discuss it. But speak nicely. Little incidents like this can lead to World War 3. It is a problem for you. It is a problem for your manager. You need to sort it out.

Brendan


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> Also I think it's admirable that you were friendly towards the new employee in turn making her feel welcome.I think your manager should apologise. I remember a good few years back I worked in a grocery shop part-time. I was training in a new employee therefore we had to talk i.e. communicate. The boss came up to me and said stop chatting in front of customers please.


 

There is a big difference between training someone in/making them feel welcome and discussing people you know, the area you're from etc    aka gossip!


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## TDON (4 Feb 2008)

If this was a once off, then it's likely your boss was having a bad day. She's only human even if on €110k and we all have them. However, she should not have spoke to you in front of other colleagues the way she did and more than likely knew straight away, she was wrong. She more than likely thought straight away "what have I done" and if not a bully didn't know how to deal with the repercussions and needed time to think and didn't know best how to deal with you and keep her superiority when you came to her door.

I think it was just bad management. However, there is no need for you to be on the receiving end.

You say you can bear to look or speak to her at the moment. Well if that's the case, at this stage you have both most likely cooled. So might I suggest an e-mail to her, that's calm, understanding and logical stating your grievance and that you'd like to talk about it. Chances are it will all be ok, even if things are a bit frosty for a few days. But it's better to get it sorted now.


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## beautfan (4 Feb 2008)

I don't agree with the managers actions you mentioned Mediation so I take it that you have already gone down the formal route.

If she wanted to set standards for the new employee she should have done this when she was inducting the new staff.  A new member of staff is a great oppurtunity to re-issue the standards. 

Once a year I issue an up to date list of duties/standards such as policy on personal calls and of course all the policies.


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## ClubMan (4 Feb 2008)

Purple said:


> It's a bad idea to criticize in public but it's no big deal. Move on, it's a non issue.
> The idea that this required a mediation meeting is incredible.


Have to agree 100%.


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## Shiraz (4 Feb 2008)

I cant believe most people´s replys to this post.

The poster is adult, responsible and getting her work done. So, during the working day she passes some time chatting to a colleague - big deal!! 
Do the people who replied never acknowlege or talk to their colleagues? We´re human, not machines, and it leads to a better work athmosphere if we get on with our colleagues.
Her manager has a cheek telling her to go back to work like a bold child - maybe the OP works late some evenings to get jobs completed, or works through lunchtime if needed. There needs to be give and take.

The manager sounds like an inexperienced manager who subscribes to the Theory X style of management which presumes that workers are inherently lazy and will avoid work if possible, and who need to be closely managed.
In a professional situation, it would be much more empowering and motivating to this employee if the manager subscribed to Theory Y management.


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## outspann (4 Feb 2008)

Let's look at it this way:

"I'm a manager supervising an office of 4 people and I have a fairly stressful job. Although my staff meet their targets, they do spend what I consider to be an unreasonable amount of time chatting to each other or on the phone.

A new employee started recently and I had hoped to instill a new work ethic within my group. However, last week when I arrived back in the office, I found 2 employees holding personal conversations on the phone, and two others - including the new girl - constantly chatting about friends from home. Despite my best efforts, this seems to have become a common occurrence.

Not wanting to cause a fuss, but still feeling that I had to say something, I asked the two girls not on the phone to get back to their jobs, before going into my office. A few moments later, there was a knock on the door, and one of the women that I had spoken to asked if I had time to talk to her. I have a very busy job, and I told her that I did not have the time. She then asked me when we could talk, and I replied that i would have to check and get back to her. She was obviously furious, and I felt that a conversation at this time would only escalate into an argument, not helping either of us. However, almost yelling, she told me in no uncertain terms that she would not accept being spoken to like a child. I had to demand that she leave my office!

Now, I don't mind a certain level of chit-chat, but I feel that it has now gotten to be too much. Add this to the fact that I am now challenged by members of staff who barge into my office because I dared to suggest that they stop talking and do some work! I'm at my wits end! Any advice please...."


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## beautfan (4 Feb 2008)

Outspan -  I'd love your salary €110K and only 4 staff.  I have 5 and not even half your salary.

There's a saying here - PIP and RIP.

Praise in Public - Reprimand in Private.


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

Or another alternative

" I was talking to the new girl and boss came in, called us both into the office and suggested we were not getting our work done and that our chatting was inappropriate. Does this count as a verbal warning? Surely all she had to do was ask us to go back to work. Was there any need to take the matter so seriously?"


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## outspann (4 Feb 2008)

Beaut, I'd love my salary too ! (?)

Two things: 

- One, maybe the boss reprimanded in public to get the point across to all four workers, ALL of whom were chatting away to one degree or another, and,
- Two, the boss didn't single out an individual member of staff for the reprimand. She was making a point to 50% (2/4) of her entire staff.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Oh I really think some people are getting really carried away here and need to come down off their high horse.The manager acted unprofessionally and that is the bottom line.  She should apologise which i'm sure Moesha would be more than happy to accept.By the way to all of the 'non-issue' people do your bosses or managers know how much time you are spending on AAM?


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## truthseeker (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> Oh I really think some people are getting really carried away here and need to come down off their high horse.The manager acted unprofessionally and that is the bottom line. She should apologise which i'm sure Moesha would be more than happy to accept.By the way to all of the 'non-issue' people do your bosses or managers know how much time you are spending on AAM?


 
And dont you think Moesha acted unprofessionally by (a) chatting with a new girl when they were supposed to be working (b) going to the managers office and demanding that she be allowed to speak there and then despite being told that the manager didnt have time to speak immediately.

I think that there are probably a few issues here, the OP was chatting on the job and when pulled up informally on it then stormed off to complain to the manager. She states that she was not happy at being spoken to like a child - but unfortunately the tale reads as though she was behaving like one.

Im sure there is more to the story - the manager should have made time to discuss the issue, but it sounds like the OP was badgering to say her piece which wouldnt have gone down too well.

Back to the original post - so what if other people were on personal calls at the time? Does that mean that the OP should not be reprimanded for chatting? Chatting in the workplace with the new girl does not send a great message about the work ethic of the office.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

truthseeker said:


> And dont you think Moesha acted unprofessionally by (a) chatting with a new girl when they were supposed to be working


 
But that's the point - they were working.  Are they supposed to go around like zombies and not utter a word to each other.  This is getting ridiculous.  Moesha did not do anything wrong.  The MANAGER is wrong.


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## zag (4 Feb 2008)

Is there a problem with chatting in the workplace ?

I don't know anyone who is contractually required not to chat during their work hours.

z


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## John Rambo (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> But that's the point - they were working.  Are they supposed to go around like zombies and not utter a word to each other.  This is getting ridiculous.  Moesha did not do anything wrong.  The MANAGER is wrong.


 
Having read through the thread I cannot agree with you. Moesha did do something wrong. Barging into the manager's office and refusing to accept that the manager couldn't discuss the issue there and then was unacceptable behaviour. I also would take issue with the "we're just chatting at the photocopier" bit. In an open plan office enviroment two people, one of them a new employee, standing at a photocopier and chatting away would annoy any manager. An earlier poster made a good point that a new employee arriving is a good opportunity to give other employees a proverbial kick up the backside regarding bad habits. As for trying to take this further, that would be ridiculous. It's a non issue and the OP should forget about it and take the criticism about chatting on the chin. We all chat in our workplaces or surf the internet from time to time. But it's a matter of balance, don't take the mickey and don't be brazen about it. If I were the OP I would ask the manager to go for a drink on a Friday evening or go for lunch or something and build a bridge. And in future, box clever about non work stuff when you're in work.


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## truthseeker (4 Feb 2008)

Clearly if the manager felt the need to pull the OP up verbally then she was chatting outside the realms of what was acceptable.

I dont think people are supposed to be zombies but when someone new comes into the office I do think that people should act professionally and not infer by action that chatting/gossiping about people/home/etc.. is ok. The manager had a point to make and made it by informally pulling the OP up on the matter.

The OP then barging into the managers office and insisting she be listened to was just bad judgement.


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## Lauren (4 Feb 2008)

Wonder if the OP is gone into hiding after the replies and interest in the thread!


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

moesha said:


> Manager walked away.  I was fuming.  I calmed down after a while and I approached managers office, knocked on the door and asked  if I could have a word.


Barging into the office?????


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## Welfarite (4 Feb 2008)

Lauren said:


> Wonder if the OP is gone into hiding after the replies and interest in the thread!


 

In fairness, the OP posted on her own time on a Sunday evening. she has not posted during her working day on company time ... unlike some, I would guess (including me)


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## John Rambo (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> Barging into the office?????


 
Semantics...barging in vs walking in slowly, refusing to leave and then going ballistic. It was still unacceptable behaviour.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

-I approached managers office, knocked on the door and asked if I could have a word. -well can you talk to me later-well will you let me know when you can have a word with me -actaully this cant wait, please do not speak to me like im a child in a classroom, especially when we werent the only people talkingManager then scowled &quot;leave my office now&quot; . I didnt answer and i left her office. .............................................Going ballistic?????


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## beautfan (4 Feb 2008)

I can't wait to hear the outcome of the mediation.

I think the manager will be told her upskill her people management skills because regardless of the rights or wrongs of the sisuation, she didn't handle it very well.

If you get €110K pa you have to be able to deal with staff who are not backwards in coming forwards.  

If I had this salary I'd be an absoulte delight of a boss!!!!


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## diarmuidc (4 Feb 2008)

John Rambo said:


> Semantics...barging in vs walking in slowly, refusing to leave and then going ballistic. It was still unacceptable behaviour.


You have comprehension issues if you read that into the OP. Please point out where the speed of her entry, the refusal to leave and her "going ballistic" is :

_I knocked on the door and asked if I could have a word. Manager says " im too busy, I don't have the time, Ill have to see" I said " well can you talk to me later" Same reply from manager. I said "well will you let me know when you can have a word with me" Same reply from manager. I said "actually this cant wait, please do not speak to me like im a child in a classroom, especially when we weren't the only people talking" Manager then scowled "leave my office now" . I didn't answer and i left her office._


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Diarmuid c looks like we're both on the same wave length


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## truthseeker (4 Feb 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> You have comprehension issues if you read that into the OP. Please point out where the speed of her entry, the refusal to leave and her "going ballistic" is :
> 
> _I knocked on the door and asked if I could have a word. Manager says " im too busy, I don't have the time, Ill have to see" I said " well can you talk to me later" Same reply from manager. I said "well will you let me know when you can have a word with me" Same reply from manager. I said "actually this cant wait, please do not speak to me like im a child in a classroom, especially when we weren't the only people talking" Manager then scowled "leave my office now" . I didn't answer and i left her office._


 
3 times the manager said "Im too busy, I dont have the time, Ill have to see'. And the OP still stood there waiting to say her piece - if thats not refusing to leave the office I dont know what is.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

What manager would make the response "i'll have to see" when a staff member wishes to discuss something?Thank God it wasn't an emergency


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## truthseeker (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> What manager would make the response "i'll have to see" when a staff member wishes to discuss something?Thank God it wasn't an emergency


 
A lot of managers - they are not just free at the whims of the staff!! How do you know the manager wasnt having an emergency?


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Well maybe she's not managing very well and taking it out on her staff or perhaps there's a bit of authority gone to her head.


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## ClubMan (4 Feb 2008)

Is this thread going anywhere at this stage?


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

No .  It got ridiculous ages ago.


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## truthseeker (4 Feb 2008)

no not really - OP asked for opinions and received them - some agreed with her some didnt, thats why the world is a fun place, because we are all different.


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## pc7 (4 Feb 2008)

well my tuppance worth is I think you should move on, your boss is your boss is your boss.  Its a one off run in reading from your post, she was wrong, you were wrong, put it behind you.  Your could work for someone a lot worse.


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## beautfan (4 Feb 2008)

pc7 there is mediation so putting it behind her isn't really an option anymore.

I realise that it's meant to be used to avoid a more formal bullying /haressment case being heard but to me its formal

I'd like to hear the outcome but the thread my soon.


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## John Rambo (4 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Is this thread going anywhere at this stage?


 
No, these threads always produce pages of responses where posters end up bickering over trivial aspects of what happened during an incident which nobody except the OP witnessed. The real issue gets forgotten and when the OP gets answers or suggestions he/she doesn't want, they're not happy. Who knows what happened? Who knows if we're getting the full story? Is "barging in" worse than "refusing to leave"? Who knows. The OP has heard plenty of varied opinions...the next move is hers.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Yes, let's wait to see what Moesha comes back to us with.


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

I'm not a manager but I do have my own office and if someone came in and asked to speak to me while I was in the middle of something and I said I was busy and would have to see (when I was free to meet with them) i would be very annoyed if said person kept insisting on an exact time and then proceeded to say it anyway especially when it was a complaint over being reprimanded for time wasting. If I was a manager then I would expect that I can reprimand 2 memners of staff for chatting all mornign without one of them then making an issue of it.
Would OP have preferred to be reprimanded in private with a verbal warning? The other 2 non involved staff members were on calls as per OP. So OP was not reprimanded in front of "everyone" or even publicly. The only people involved were the only people in the vicinity that were listening. 
As a matter of interest, what did the new girl say or do, I wonder? I am sure she thought "whoops, better get back to my desk and not get caught up in personal coversation again". Whereas OP has been around longer and would appear to have less respect for her manager. If this was something that happened day in and out then I would be all for her standing up for herself. However, OP admits they were chatting on and off all morning and can't accept that that is not the most constructive thing she could have been doing and that the manager wouldn't be a manager if she ignored that. 
A managers job is to manage the offices resources and ensure they are utilised in the most productive manner. Telling half your staff to stop chatting about personal matters is doing their job. 
Personally I think it is a sign of the times where someones boss ticks them off for standing around chatting and it results in a big drama with accusations of bullying and meetings to try and "resolve" the issue. WHAT ISSUE? Do your job and stop chatting and this won't happen. I'm only in the work force 8 years and I think that the OP is talking the modern working environments and all it's regulations too far as many people do. What happened to the boss being the one in charge? Isn't that what they are paid for? I understand that the position of power can be abused to the detriment of the workers but in this case it sounds like the OP has been mollycoddled in her employment where her boss cannot remprimand her without being dragged up in front of a mediation session for it. Madness!


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## ninsaga (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> Yes, let's wait to see what Moesha comes back to us with.



Well I suppose she will have alot to talk about at the photocopier today...


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## Flax (4 Feb 2008)

Both the OP and the manager did something wrong, but the OP is being quite pathetic to suggest this is some kind of bullying incident.



			
				Moesha said:
			
		

> I didnt mention [bullying] deliberately because thats the way I feel and I wanted you folk to form a view of the situation without the "b" word even being mentioned.


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## Margie (4 Feb 2008)

Great we've heard all the opinions over and over now let's wait to see what Moesha comes back to us with.  Let's not keep ranting on or the thread will be closed.


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## ClubMan (4 Feb 2008)

truthseeker said:


> no not really - OP asked for opinions and received them - some agreed with her some didnt, thats why the world is a fun place, because we are all different.


I'm not.


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## ninsaga (4 Feb 2008)

Yes... we are all unique ... just like everybody else.

Anyways, my guess is that moesha will come back with some more 'drama' (for which I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion anyway).


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## Purple (4 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I'm not.


I bet you’re not the messiah either.


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## ClubMan (4 Feb 2008)

No - just a very naughty boy...


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## Purple (4 Feb 2008)

Your not coming out today so...


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## davidoco (4 Feb 2008)

Moesha,  do you have an intermediate supervisor with whom you can talk to and let him or her act as peace maker? If you can't patch things up put in for a transfer but no matter what you do be very careful about using the word bullying as it may become more of an issue than it's worth. 
PS over the years I've seen grown women (no man yet) cry over just such a reprimand so you did very well in confronting the manager and not starting a b* fest in the canteen.


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## moesha (4 Feb 2008)

Holy moly, I really did not expect this thread to go this far.

Havent got alot of time at the mo but here are a few points I want to add

I did not barge into the Managers office, I knocked on an open door. 

There are no other immediate supervisor, she is it!!!!!

I do think Im being bullied and I have gone further about it, union, personnel, my GP. This has caused me so much stress. Now im waiting for the comments from some posters, who will have a good oul giggle about this. Which some people already have. Some people love a chance to have a swipe at the Civil Servants, personally I think their jealous. What other job owuld let you have the summer off to be with your kids, flexi time, come in early leave early the perks are endless. 


_Comments in breach of the Posting Guidelines Removed - Brendan_

Gotta go, this should keep the thread going for about another 5 pages now!!!!!

BAck later


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## Flax (4 Feb 2008)

I still don't understand how she treated you like crap.

Could you please explain what the bullying is? Currently I feel you're completely overreacting. Yes she's clearly a bit of a tit but that's not bullying.

BTW I'm not jealous of Civil Servants (quite the opposite actually.) Working in such a non-progressive environment would depress the hell out of me.


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## ninsaga (4 Feb 2008)

moesha said:


> Gotta go, this should keep the thread going for about another 5 pages now!!!!!



....well since you asked....... but let me summise....

- Boss tells you to get back to work
- you want to speak with her
- she says no & tells you to get out of her office
- you go to union, personnel & your GP....... did you do that before attempting to speak with her again? 
.... I wonder if she had shouted at you would you have a claim for deafness also?

(mods: savoury ref removed by poster)


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## ailbhe (4 Feb 2008)

Has this happened more than once? Has your fellow employee filed a complaint seeing as she was involved too?
I have a good job in the private sector and no jealously of the civil service. I've turned down a civil service position recently as it wasn't worth my while to take it, salary wise. So don't assume that people who disagree with you are just jealous.
If this was a once off then you are over reacting and I wouldn't like to see how you perform under stress. If it is not a one off then that is a different story but you really need to give the whole story in order to get good, sound advice.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Feb 2008)

Let's go back to the original post for a  minute:



> Manager stops us and says, " are you girls going to be talking all afternoon?"
> 
> I answered "no".  Manager says "well good because there is plenty of work to be done now get on with it".


That is a very nice way of telling people that they were chatting too much. The Manager handled this very, very well. A gentle reminder - no more, no less. There was no shouting. No name calling. 

What does the OP want her to have done? Call them in separately and make a much bigger issue out of it?

The manager faced a situation where all four of her staff were chatting about personal issues at the one time. Maybe she should have  told the other two to hang up the phone immediately and called an instant meeting to make her point formally and strongly?


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## markowitzman (4 Feb 2008)

maybe if the manager replace the 4 employees with 4 nice plants the office would be more productive and reduce the carbon footprint to boot?


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## John Rambo (4 Feb 2008)

I was the one who mentioned "barging" into the office. I did not mean bursting through the door and was only trying to convey the fact that the OP was in the office when the manager did not want her there. To hone in on this "barging" issue is a red herring. Look at the substantive issues...as Brendan said the OP was warned in a reasonable fashion for openly chatting about non work topics with a new employee. The fact that this has escalated to mediation with unions and doctors involved is bizarre, as given what I have read the manager did very little wrong. I'd dismiss the rubbish posted about jealousy and the civil service as it's clearly designed to provoke other posters. Given the facts as they've been presented, the attempted provocation of other posters, and the structure of the posts I believe this is a wind up. If it's not, then the OP is behaving disgracefully.


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## REMFAN (4 Feb 2008)

Margie said:


> Oh I really think some people are getting really carried away here and need to come down off their high horse.The manager acted unprofessionally and that is the bottom line. She should apologise which i'm sure Moesha would be more than happy to accept.By the way to all of the 'non-issue' people do your bosses or managers know how much time you are spending on AAM?


 
Exactly... Fifty lashes to the OP for wasting our tax dollars


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## WhoAmI (4 Feb 2008)

REMFAN said:


> Exactly... Fifty lashes to the OP for wasting our tax dollars



That should prompt a reply from Clubman wondering why you're paying your tax in dollars... 

(No offence or personal digs intended)


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## SandraD (4 Feb 2008)

Would your replies be different if the OP was not a Civil Servant?


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## Purple (4 Feb 2008)

SandraD said:


> Would your replies be different if the OP was not a Civil Servant?



No.
This is a non issue. The OP needs to grow up and get on with it. I know I've said worse to my employees (and they've said worse to me!).
In my opinion the OP is being childish and self indulgent. She was in the wrong and was embarrassed that she was told off in front of the new girl but that's not her bosses fault.


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