# The NRA does it again



## gonk (19 Sep 2007)

The NRA ("No Rest Areas") is already notorious for refusing to allow service stations on motorways, with the result that it is possible to drive from Portlaoise to Dundalk without passing anywhere one can refuel or get a coffee and take a break.

Uniquely in Europe, it also resisted installing barriers as a standard on the central reservations of dual carriageways and motorways. Only after a number of deaths and an even greater number of near misses did it concede there was nothing special about Irish conditions which meant such barriers are not needed here.

It then set about retrofitting wire rope and post barriers to a large number of roads, despite protests from motorcycling groups that these presented a severe hazard to motorcyclists. 

From a report in today's (Sep 19) _Irish Times:_

_The European Commission has launched a review of the use of wire rope crash barriers such as those currently being installed on Irish motorways and dual carriageways._

_The Commission has asked the European Committee for Standardisation, which draws up technical specifications for industry, to review the use of such barriers, a Commission spokeswoman confirmed yesterday._

_The review was prompted by concern over the effects the wire ropes and poles have in a collision, particularly with motorcyclists._

_*The installation of such barriers has now been banned in a number of European countries - including Britain, Austria, Norway and the Netherlands - on safety grounds.*_

_*However, the National Roads Authority (NRA) is currently installing the wire rope barriers on all major roads where the central median is 15 metres or less.*_

[broken link removed]


How long before the NRA accepts that this type of barrier is not fit for purpose, that it has wasted our money and placed road users lives at risk by installing them, and replaces them?


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## xavier (19 Sep 2007)

ah sure it'll be grand.

Our agencies can always be relied on the choose the option that appears the cheapest but which turns out to be the most expensive. But when there is an endless supply of money and no accountability what should we expect?


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## Pique318 (19 Sep 2007)

I've heard bikers refer to that cable as 'cheese wire' which is understandable. UP near me, they removed the 'armco' barriers and put up the wire....

Armcos were probably dumped and the scrappie made a killing on it by selling it on.

Who pays in the end ?


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## Ron Burgundy (19 Sep 2007)

gonk said:


> The NRA ("No Rest Areas") is already notorious for refusing to allow service stations on motorways, with the result that it is possible to drive from* Portlaoise to Dundalk without passing anywhere one can refuel or get a coffee and take a break*.
> 
> Uniquely in Europe, it also resisted installing barriers as a standard on the central reservations of dual carriageways and motorways. Only after a number of deaths and an even greater number of near misses did it concede there was nothing special about Irish conditions which meant such barriers are not needed here.
> 
> ...




one esso just past naas and one just past newlands cross before you reach red cow roundabout.


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## gonk (19 Sep 2007)

Ron Burgundy said:


> one esso just past naas and one just past newlands cross before you reach red cow roundabout.


 
I was going by comments such as this in the Senate:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=SEN20050616.xml&Ex=All&Page=2

_Yesterday reference was made to the National Roads Authority’s policy on service stations on new motorways. The sentiment of the House was that it was an unwise policy. The NRA’s annual report states service stations should not be built beside motorways. The distance between Portlaoise and Dundalk is 150 km and no service station has been built on the route. The national roads policy is contradictory in that towns are bypassed while filling stations are not built on motorways, which means juggernauts are forced to stream through small towns. The NRA should rethink the policy and examine the German experience of filling stations at least every 16 km along roads that are more modern than ours. These would be the sentiments of the House in advance of the NRA’s meeting today._

Another route I know very well, and which is not much shorter at 120km, is Kilmacanogue in Wicklow to Dundalk. There is no service station anywhere on this route once you leave Kilmacanogue.


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## ubiquitous (19 Sep 2007)

Ron Burgundy said:


> one esso just past naas and one just past newlands cross before you reach red cow roundabout.



Is the Esso in Naas on the road north or the road south? If north (as I suspect), it is perhaps still possible to drive from Dundalk to Portlaoise without passing a rest-stop, even if this does not apply in the other direction?


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## Guest127 (19 Sep 2007)

must say I am not mad fond of that concrete barrier they have installed just south of the border to just north of the border. suspect its concrete so you definitely can't do a U turn as you approach the border  but would have preffered to see an armco barrier. it's classed as a 120 kph dual carriageway.


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## Ron Burgundy (19 Sep 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Is the Esso in Naas on the road north or the road south? If north (as I suspect), it is perhaps still possible to drive from Dundalk to Portlaoise without passing a rest-stop, even if this does not apply in the other direction?



you only need a rest stop in the motorway and there is a large part after naas that is not a motorway. I agree that there are no truck rest stops. But there are places for a car to pull in.


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## gonk (19 Sep 2007)

Ron Burgundy said:


> you only need a rest stop in the motorway and there is a large part after naas that is not a motorway. I agree that there are no truck rest stops. But there are places for a car to pull in.


 
Well, the NRA have conceded the point, because they are belatedly putting out the provision of service areas to tender.

How many dead or maimed motorcyclists will it take for them to admit they are wrong on these wire rope barriers too?


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## Ron Burgundy (19 Sep 2007)

gonk said:


> Well, the NRA have conceded the point, because they are belatedly putting out the provision of service areas to tender.
> 
> How many dead or maimed motorcyclists will it take for them to admit they are wrong on these wire rope barriers too?




the rope barriers ( chicken wire) are madness.


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## Guest127 (19 Sep 2007)

popped down to banbridge today and that concrete wall in the middle of the road stops short of the border. armco for a few hundred metres and then even in norn iron is the chicken wire thingy. that concrete barrier looks menacing and can't see how anyone unfortunate enought to have an accident with it could escape unharmed.


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## michaelm (20 Sep 2007)

xavier said:


> Our agencies can always be relied on the choose the option that appears the cheapest but which turns out to be the most expensive. But when there is an endless supply of money and no accountability what should we expect?


Unfortunately, this sums it up nicely.


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## snuffle (20 Sep 2007)

An area I live near has in the past few years installed a 2+1 system (south Kilkenny), ie one side of the road is two lanes for overtaking for a mile, while the other side is one lane, then it switches over to two lanes on the other side and one lane this side. It's divided by wire rope barriers. I think this is a particularly dangerous system as it seems to lead to drivers overtaking furiously while they have the two lanes, causing many near misses and numerous accidents as they try to pull back in as the lanes narrow back to one, also as the wire barrier is along almost the entire length of the stretch, you have a situation where  people have to drive for miles around back roads to access the side of the road they wish to travel on, and the parts that do have gaps to turn on/off the main roads, there have been fatal accidents as people wait to turn right and people smash into them while overtaking. 

Another thing that horrifies me is that local school buses drop children on eg westbound sides, and they run across the road, hop over the wire rope and run again over the opposite lanes on the eastbound side to get to their houses which the bus can no longer drop them in front of as the wire barrier prevents them from turning up the country roads they live on.

I applaud the NRA for trying to introduce a system which leads to better driving conditions, but this particular example was ill thought out in the extreme.


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## gonk (20 Sep 2007)

snuffle said:


> I applaud the NRA for trying to introduce a system which leads to better driving conditions, but this particular example was ill thought out in the extreme.


 
This is another area where they have done a U-turn (if you'll excuse the pun). The NRA has recently decided not to install any more of these - they have concluded it would be just as cheap and more effective to upgrade to a full dual carriageway.


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## snuffle (20 Sep 2007)

gonk said:


> This is another area where they have done a U-turn (if you'll excuse the pun). The NRA has recently decided not to install any more of these - they have concluded it would be just as cheap and more effective to upgrade to a full dual carriageway.


Hmmm, wonder if they'll now come down and rectify the mess they've made of this particular 2+1 system then!


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## gonk (20 Sep 2007)

snuffle said:


> Hmmm, wonder if they'll now come down and rectify the mess they've made of this particular 2+1 system then!


 
'Fraid not. From the _Irish Times_, July 25 last:

_A cost-benefit analysis also showed that an upgrade on a single carriageway national route to a 2+2 - with two lanes in each direction separated by a central barrier cost - between 10 to 15 per cent more than a 2+1 format._

_Because the 2+2 arrangement can also carry more traffic at 20,000 vehicles per day, compared to 14,000 for a 2+1, the NRA has decided to use this design layout as the basis for the widening of almost 850km of single carriageway national roads._

_*An NRA spokesman said the existing stretches of 2+1 developed during the pilot scheme would be left unchanged, and the design would remain as an approved option.*_

[broken link removed]


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## xavier (21 Sep 2007)

gonk said:


> 'Fraid not. From the _Irish Times_, July 25 last:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

It'll only take a few fatal accidents to change that decision - nothin like dead folk to make the NRA change their minds


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## rabbit (21 Sep 2007)

The NRA are nothing but bully boys and thieves.  I know of some land in a town which they " acquired" in 2004   by CPO for a new street , and, they paid ( in 2007 ) the property owner only half of what the same size piece of land sold right next door at public auction two years previously ( in 2004 ).   The underbidder at the auction in 2004 was the valuer for the Borough Council / NRA !


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## snuffle (22 Sep 2007)

xavier said:


> It'll only take a few fatal accidents to change that decision - nothin like dead folk to make the NRA change their minds



Unfortunately there have already been fatal accidents on this stretch of 2+1 I referred to earlier, plus many many complaints from local residents, but these were basically pooh-poohed. There have been 2 fatalities that I can think of off the top of my head on this stretch of 2+1, but in the article Gonk linked to, the NRA states there have been "no serious crashes on the 2+1 roads used in the pilot study" - well if fatal = not serious, I guess they are right.


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## contemporary (24 Sep 2007)

Pique318 said:


> I've heard bikers refer to that cable as 'cheese wire' which is understandable. UP near me, they removed the 'armco' barriers and put up the wire....
> 
> Armcos were probably dumped and the scrappie made a killing on it by selling it on.
> 
> Who pays in the end ?



i cant see much of a difference as a biker hitting an armco or the wire at 120kmph tbh


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## gonk (24 Sep 2007)

contemporary said:


> i cant see much of a difference as a biker hitting an armco or the wire at 120kmph tbh


 
If you hit it head on, maybe not.

If you hit it at an angle, you have a better chance with the Armco, because:

It's continuous, meaning you could slide along and/or be deflected;
The barrier is wider, spreading the impact loads compared to the wire rope;
The posts are enclosed within the barrier.
By comparison, the wire rope is rougher and narrower, meaning it would tend to cut if one slid along it, and the posts are not enclosed, so would cause more damage on impact.

Suffice it to say, as noted in the report above, a number of European countries have moved to ban the wire rope barriers. One can only assume their safety experts have good grounds for doing so.

Good info here too: [broken link removed] (Final report of the Motorcyclists & Crash Barriers Project - FEMA)


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## Seagull (25 Sep 2007)

The armco is less likely to hook under your chin and rip your head off.


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