# how to help the Mum of a nocturnal baby?



## decembersal (10 Sep 2008)

Any idea's of how to help out a sleep deprived friend?
Thinking a big lasagne etc?


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## Caveat (10 Sep 2008)

Do you mean 'help out' as in help her to sleep, or as in pamper/compensate her?

Mind you a dirty big lasagne might do both.


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## becky (10 Sep 2008)

I like italian but not so mad about lasagne.


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## decembersal (10 Sep 2008)

Help out - as in to make life a little easier!


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## Teabag (10 Sep 2008)

"The New Contented Little Baby" book by Gina Ford. 
Would not recommend all of her teachings but she has some good tips and insights. Its all about routine routine routine...


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## sam h (10 Sep 2008)

Call around, make her a cup of coffee/tea, take out the hoover & get busy....don't forget to make a salad to go with the lasagna!!
Or mind the baby for an hour while she go's for a walk.


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## Vanilla (10 Sep 2008)

Cooking her a meal is a great idea. Possibly offer to do some ironing or other housework? Best of all, offer to take baby off her hands even just for a couple of hours so she can have a nap. 

Be wary of Gina Ford, that's a little too much like offering unwanted parenting advice which is only appropriate if asked for.


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## Bubbly Scot (10 Sep 2008)

The offer to mind the baby for a bit so she can take a nap sounds like a great idea. Bringing a lasagne over is a lovely thought and would be appreciated I'm sure. 
On the matter of housework, maybe the offer to take some ironing away (or offer to do it there while you have a natter). I'd say it depends how well you know her and how comfortable you would both feel if you started cleaning. As a woman, I would absolutely hate it if someone came into my house and started cleaning, especially if I was a tad emotional and overtired.


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## Diziet (11 Sep 2008)

I can verify from experience that the offer to mind the baby while the mother takes a nap is perfect. 

Years ago, when my first was very small, a couple of good friends dropped in. I made them tea, then said that they can talk among themselves and mind the baby. I was so sleep deprived that I then went for a blissful couple of hours sleep.

When I woke up, I realised that they hadn't actually offered, but thankfully they didn't mind being roped in to babysit


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## indebtedgal (11 Sep 2008)

Would you suggest that you sleep over for a night so the mom can get a night sleep in full.. i think that would be perfect..


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## decembersal (11 Sep 2008)

Thank you all very much for your ideas. I shall arrive laden and send her to bed!


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## sam h (11 Sep 2008)

> Thank you all very much for your ideas. I shall arrive laden and send her to bed!


 
She will appriciate that much more than a bunch of flowers or yet another set of babygros (age 6-9mths of course!!).

Always amazed us after we had our kids how people would just arrive & expect to be waited on!!


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## Purple (13 Sep 2008)

If the father is around why is he not doing some night feeds?
I did all of the night feeds on our first child as Mrs Purple was ill after the birth. It didn't kill me.


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## LDFerguson (13 Sep 2008)

Purple said:


> If the father is around why is he not doing some night feeds?


 
Because that's not a man's job.  The poor man is probably out working all day and when he comes home, he should have a hot dinner laid in front of him, after which she should bring him his slippers and a chilled beer for when he's watching TV and reading the paper.  

(Death wishes can be fun, actually.)


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## delgirl (13 Sep 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> Because that's not a man's job. The poor man is probably out working all day and when he comes home, he should have a hot dinner laid in front of him, after which she should bring him his slippers and a chilled beer for when he's watching TV and reading the paper.


I can't wait to see the responses to this one!


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## Ancutza (13 Sep 2008)

Absolutely and the last thing he should be bothered with is a wailing bairn.  Wouldn't they at least have the decency to volunteer to sleep on the sofa so he could get a bit of shut-eye?


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## Complainer (13 Sep 2008)

Purple said:


> I did all of the night feeds on our first child as Mrs Purple was ill after the birth. It didn't kill me.


It could explain why you are so cranky, mind you?


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## Purple (13 Sep 2008)

Complainer said:


> It could explain why you are so cranky, mind you?



It was ten years ago, it must be another reason


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## Caveat (14 Sep 2008)

Seriously though, is there a father on the scene? 

If so , and he is not pulling his weight, then feck the lasagne and tell him to grow up.


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## Vanilla (14 Sep 2008)

Maybe the mother is breastfeeding?


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## decembersal (14 Sep 2008)

To be fair I am just trying to be a good friend by bringing around a meal so to reduce the workload a bit. 
I am sure both parents are actively participating in the rearing of their baby.


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## television (14 Sep 2008)

Why is the baby not slleping. I suggest get the baby sleeping throughout the night and happy days all around. how old is the baby?


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## Purple (15 Sep 2008)

jaybird said:


> Theres many a man can't grow breasts overnight, you know. Apart from that, the father could be working shifts, or have a job that necessitates a good nights sleep. But none of that is anyones business, the OP was looking for ways to help her friend, not marriage guidance by remote.
> 
> OP, food and a few hours sleep are perfect ideas! As the mother of a baby who rarely sleeps even at 1 year old, I would have loved someone to turn up with a lasagne and send me to bed for even one hour. Actually someone making me a cup of tea would have been nice, the amount of people who arrive to goo at the baby and expect tea and biscuits is crazy.


 Very defensive tone there jaybird. The mother can express the milk in advance, or they can use formula milk for night feeds, or the father can wind/burp the baby after the feed. If he's working at night that's one thing, the rest is just a cop-out.



decembersal said:


> To be fair I am just trying to be a good friend by bringing around a meal so to reduce the workload a bit.
> I am sure both parents are actively participating in the rearing of their baby.


So he is doing his bit… good.
I agree with other posters that a meal (preferable one like a lasagne or a casserole) is a great idea. Taking the baby out for a few hours is also good.


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## sam h (15 Sep 2008)

Taking the baby out is also a great idea, we used to do that with my nephew....made it seem like she was doing us a favour as the kids wanted to bring their new cousin.  Could easily knock 2 hours out of the walk....and the added bonus is you have a hungry tired baby at the end of it, who will probably eat & then sleep for a few hours.  Plu mum doesn;t hear the baby cry so will have a proper nap.

TBH - most new mums will appreciate any bit of help.  Re - the dads, with the best will in the world, most men are working full time + travel time  - they could be gone from the house for 10hours plus per day.....so even if they are hands on, it can be a very long, tiring, lonely day


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## Carmel (16 Sep 2008)

I have to agree with Jaybird. When you are breastfeeding a young baby, expressing is not recommended (they can get confused between bottle and breast) and using formula can affect milk supply. So if breastfeeding is the choice that she has made, the mother is the only one who can feed the baby at night. But it can be really exhausting.

Definately the best offer would be for some uninterrupted sleep in the knowledge that someone else is looking after baby. If you bring dinner too, that would be a bonus.

For tips on getting the baby to sleep, I would recommend 'The Baby Whisperer,how to calm, connect and communicate with your Baby', it worked for me


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## Purple (16 Sep 2008)

Carmel said:


> I have to agree with Jaybird. When you are breastfeeding a young baby, expressing is not recommended (they can get confused between bottle and breast) and using formula can affect milk supply. So if breastfeeding is the choice that she has made, the mother is the only one who can feed the baby at night. But it can be really exhausting.
> 
> Definately the best offer would be for some uninterrupted sleep in the knowledge that someone else is looking after baby. If you bring dinner too, that would be a bonus.
> 
> For tips on getting the baby to sleep, I would recommend 'The Baby Whisperer,how to calm, connect and communicate with your Baby', it worked for me


Fair enough, what would I know; I only have three kids


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## Vanilla (16 Sep 2008)

Carmel said:


> When you are breastfeeding a young baby, expressing is not recommended (they can get confused between bottle and breast) and using formula can affect milk supply. So if breastfeeding is the choice that she has made, the mother is the only one who can feed the baby at night. But it can be really exhausting.


 

Well it is not recommended if you believe the La Leche type propaganda anyway. Having said that ( like to get a dig in at La Leche whenever possible so thanks for the opportunity  ) it's all about choice...


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## MOB (16 Sep 2008)

When did la Leche become fair game?  I thought it was a fairly harmless movement to support young mothers.  Apparently they are the boob police...........


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## Vanilla (16 Sep 2008)

MOB said:


> When did la Leche become fair game? I thought it was a fairly harmless movement to support young mothers. Apparently they are the boob police...........


 
Believe it or not La Leche are the facist dictators of breastfeeding.


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## casiopea (16 Sep 2008)

Well as someone who's currently going through what the OP's friend is going through, who is breastfeeding, pumping, who's OH is pulling their weight and the baby is sleeping "a bit" - Im still finding it a bit overwhelming and the offer of a lasagne, help with the ironing or simply the company during the day when we (baby and I) are alone would be wonderful. What Im trying to say is that just because OP wants to help her friend doesnt mean the partner isnt pulling their weight.

cas.

ps - the latest in Switzerland is that there is no such thing as "nipple confusion" and that breast and bottle can be mixed from about 2/3 weeks.


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## Vanilla (16 Sep 2008)

Congratulations Casiopea, that's great news. The first few weeks are pretty tough alright, but it only gets easier! Wishing you many years of happiness ahead.

That's what I meant about La Leche- they say- no expressing because of 'nipple confusion', no mixing of formula because your own supply will be diminished, blah, blah. In reality if your baby gets just one breast feed a day they get all the immunity and goodness from that and need no more. And it doesn't matter if it is from the breast or the bottle. New mothers need all the help they can get in my view so whatever makes life easier is going to make both mother and baby more relaxed and happier.


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## Carmel (16 Sep 2008)

Just like to say that I have no connection with the La Leche League. Have been breast-feeding my first baby for 4 months and am currently weaning him onto formula, took guidance from Holles St. midwives and public health nurse. 

Still say that sleep deprivation is the hardest thing about having a new baby and an offer of some peaceful sleep knowing the baby is looked after would be most appreciated.


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## sidzer (16 Sep 2008)

Any help would be gratefuly appreciated - cooked food / bit of cleaning great - but sleep is the king - so if you could facilitate that it wud b a big help...


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## Vanilla (17 Sep 2008)

jaybird said:


> Or Vanilla could give some results from her well informed, one woman study ?


 

At last, the recognition I have been longing for!

Seriously though, what 'facts' exactly are you saying are rubbish? I put the word facts in inverted commas since I would have thought it was clear that the above posts are opinions, not facts. If it was not clear, then let me just state that indeed the above posts were opinion based. As for not knowing anything about the realities of breastfeeding, again for the record, I breastfed both of my children.


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## casiopea (17 Sep 2008)

jaybird said:


> And I wonder why I might be defensive? What are earth are you talking about? You clearly know nothing about the realities of breastfeeding, but you seem to think youself more knowledgeable than an entire world wide non-profit organisation endorsed by the W.H.O and Unicef? I'd like to know where you got the above facts from, because to me they sound like utter rubbish.
> If anyone is interested in the actual facts, the La Leche league site can point you towards decades of both scientific and anthropological studies on breastfeeding. Or Vanilla could give some results from her well informed, one woman study ?



Breastfeeding I have found generates as much passionate debate as religion.  At the end of the day the mum and baby have to be relaxed and well be it that you breastfeed exclusively, breast & express, breast and formula or formula only and quite frankly other people's opinions don't matter.

To the OP, you sound like a lovely friend, ask your friend what she'd like.  For example I would not want someone to babysit for me just yet (am not ready) but having someone call over and help is wonderful.  A good friend dragged me out and make me breastfeed in public which was bizarrely very helpful as it got me over the first bf-public-experience.  Offering to come over and watch baby while she grabs a catnap might be very helpful - but again ask her what she'd like and well done on being such a good friend.


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## Purple (17 Sep 2008)

Jaybird, dismissing the opinion of another poster out of hand, especially one with first hand experience, does your credibility no good. 
All of my three children were fed with a combination of breast milk (during the day when Mrs Purple was at home) and formula milk (at night when I was home). None of them have any chronic health issues or allergies and they are all above average height for their age. 
I also agree that the La Leche league is far too strident in their beliefs and the way in which they publicise them.


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## casiopea (17 Sep 2008)

jaybird said:


> Why is that those of us who support breastfeeding are called strident, breastapo, and BF nazis? We are the vast minority, and yet are called bullies, for advocating breastfeeding. In the UK and Ireland, only 7% of babies are being breastfed at 4 months. I don't understand why anyone (other than Nestle et al) would want that figure not to be brought up?
> 
> All most of us want is for accurate advice and support given to women to feed their babies, whatever way they choose. And that is sadly lacking.



Hi Jaybird, your posts are very interesting I didnt realize figures are as low as that.  It might interest you to know that here in Switzerland after a natural/no complications birth you are kept in hospital for 5 days just to learn how to breastfeed!  My gynaecologist said to me on day 3; "you are perfectly healthy but the midwives inform me you have some problems with BF so you should stay in till that is resolved".  I must admit I was thinking "as soon as I spring this joint Im buying a box of formula" but on the first 5 days home from hospital a midwife (a BF nazi if ever there was one) called around to make sure Im sticking to it and to listen to my whinging and complaining - by day 9 it just took and we've been flying ever since.  If I had had her at home in Ireland I dont think Id be BFing now simply as left to my own devices I would have given up sooner and my OH obviously wanted to see me happy so he would have given in too.  It was only because of the "BF nazis" (lol) that we are still at it.  The BF nazi comes back for a visit at 3 months and 6 months again.....now if only I could find a sleep nazi to help we'd really be flying!

Sorry for going off topic


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## Bronte (18 Sep 2008)

I believe breast fed babies sleep better through the night so I would consider that a big advantage plus no sterlising/heating etc.  It is more calming that's from personal experience and Purple my kids will be shorter than normal not taller so it has nothing to do with breast feeding.  OP - I wouldn't like someone else other than family doing any housework for me, but sleep depreviation was the worst thing so letting your friend have a nap is a great idea, as is getting her out of the house, into the car going to a shopping center, these first trips after the first baby can be enormously trying.


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## Hurling Fan (20 Sep 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Believe it or not La Leche are the facist dictators of breastfeeding.


 
Very sorry to see anyone taking a pop at La Leche League Leaders - think they are wonderful women who work voluntarily to help mothers to breastfed their babies.  They take telephone calls all times of day and night, (when I was in hospital the Lactation consultant only worked 9 to 5 - very inconvenient if your baby was hungry in the early hours of the morning and your needed some help!) attend courses, run meetings, they even do house calls.  If you have any query re breastfeeding they will answer it honestly and if they can't (eg about taking medication while breastfeeding or whatever) will find the answer for you.  In my opinion, they know a lot more about b/f than GPs, public health nurses etc.  I think they do amazing work.  However, no body has to attend LLL meetings (it is not mandatory believe it or not) but if you really want to b/f and you are struggling they will to their utmost to help you.

Regarding one b/f a day theory, I've seen loads of friends go down this route and hey presto were feeding their baby by only formula a short time later.  The most basic concept of b/f is supply and demand.  So if there's no demand for breast milk, it will soon dry up.


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## Vanilla (20 Sep 2008)

I don't think I'm alone in having had a bad experience with my local La Leche league from what I read while I was actually BFing. 

My problem with La Leche is that they are too absolutist. So LL say no expressing because of 'nipple confusion'. As Casiopea said the current thought by many nurses/medical professionals is that there is no such thing as 'nipple confusion'. Yet LL still bang on about it. When I had my first child I was told by my local LL it was best not to express before 3 months or so, actually best never to express at all if I could help it. Like a fool I waited for the 3 months despite having many problems with BF-ing ( which I have to say I never had any help with from LL or my public health nurse). When the 3 months mark were up I started to express, and by then of course baby wasn't having any of the bottle. I was a sole trader and HAD to work. LL were no help, I just felt the strain of their disapproval that I had decided to express at all. I also lost a lot of weight after my first child was born, had recently gone through a bereavement ( my mother died, followed shortly by my father in law) which probably added to stress levels and I found keeping up a good supply to be very difficult. But LL say -NO Formula- so I really felt I couldn't supplement AND be a good mother. That led to a good deal of upset and stress which I think is a pity looking back on a time that should have been only happy. 

Luckily by the time I had my second child I had copped on, stopped going to LL, and instead looked for advice from a paediatrician in France ( who was the one who told me to cop on about supplementing with formula if I needed to- he said that if I even gave one breast feed a day, whether expressed or not, that this would be enough to give my baby as much immunity as if I was BF exclusively), and some other mothers who had BF longer than I had on my first and seemed much happier in doing so. By the time my second child was a few weeks old I was expressing and giving one or two bottles of expressed milk every day. I went on to BF exclusively for about 6 months as far as I can remember before starting to mix the odd formula feed without any difficulty.

All these ideas about giving formula causing problems with your own supply presuppose that  mothers are idiots IMHO, for gods sake, just express as well as giving formula and you will keep up the same supply. 

In a nutshell I think that LL lacked pragmatism and flexibility- if they concentrated more on showing mothers who are having problems how to keep BFing for longer whether that be by way of expressing or supplementing I think that there would be many more young mothers who would stay BFing for longer.


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## sandrat (20 Sep 2008)

I never went near LLL people. I got approached by one of them in a local shop when my baby was one week old (I thought I was doing great, to be up showered dressed etc and in the shop) she asked me "are you ok because you look dreadful?" Then asked if i was feeding her myself and told me i needed to go to the meetings or I wouldnt manage it for much longer. My daughter is 20 weeks old today and has never had formula. I have expressed since she was born because there was trouble latching in the beginning and she has never refused a bottle. After a few weeks she was flying on the breast but she still gets a couple of a expressed bottles today because of the attention I get if I try to feed in public. I'm 25 and was asking public health nurse about the numbers of people my age doing it in my area and the answer was none, just me. People come over and talk to you and look for wedding ring and then ask how long you have been married and then if its your first baby and then, oh well you should be doing this that and the other, when are you moving her to bottles, the spoon etc. 

I did have a great talk with a lactation consultant from cuidiu when my daughter developed eczema who was very helpful when people were saying she must be allergic to breast milk and my own doctor was demontrating with his own "boob" how to feed her! 

I don't think the way BF is pushed on people is the way to go, really it needs to be a cultural change where people mind their own business regardless of peoples choices. Just because someone is breastfeeding or bottle feeding in public doesnt give you the right to start giving advice. 

for OP i think letting her get sleep is a great idea. I found it great that someone offered to babysit for our anniversary which was when baby was only 4 weeks old which meant I got to get dolled up and go out for once. Felt a little bit more human.


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## Hurling Fan (22 Sep 2008)

Am sorry to hear Vanilla and Sandrat that you had negative experiences with LLL.  Must say my experience was totally the opposite and can say that I feel they really helped a lot of women who desperately wanted to b/f their baby but had got very bad help/advice from the medical system professionals, to get back on track with b/f.  I too gave my babies a few bottles once b/f was established as I knew there would be some stage I would have to be away from them even if it was only to go to the hairdressers.  Any meeting I attended the leader said during the introduction something along the lines of "take on board whatever information you hear here that suits you and your family" and that is literally what I did and didn't get stressed about an odd bottle of expressed milk here and there and didn't take every word as mandatory.

Still not convinced about one b/f per day giving a baby all the immunity they need and would have to see some research on that as I really believe human milk is the perfect food for babies!


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## annR (5 Oct 2008)

It's really interesting the way this topic has turned into a chat about breastfeeding.  I would agree that letting her get a nap and bringing some food is the best idea and it's probably best not to get involved in the feeding side of things unless she specifically asks for advice.  It's all about supporting whatever she is doing, not offering opinions or influencing no matter how well meaning.
I am breastfeeding my 9 week old daughter after a rocky start.  A few weeks ago someone asked me what would I like as a present for the baby and I just asked them to bring me food   They thought I was daft and wanted to buy some clothes or something. . . . people are out of touch with reality!  I would have loved a fruit basket  .  . . I was having real trouble keeping myself fed properly those first few weeks after my husband went back to work.


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