# Can't get rid of tenants - help!



## Denbo (25 Jul 2007)

Many postings on similar situations but as you know every situation is unique!! Sorry its such a long story!!

Tenants moved in to my house in early Nove 06, references checked out and was really happy with my choice. Tenants were social welfare and were receiving payment driectly and suppose to pay on to me. They are a family of 6, parents and 4 childern. They however turned up on my driveway on the day they were to move in with furniture and childern in tow and advised me they didn't have the deposit to pay. I relented and allowed them to move in,( a decision I will regret for a long time to come) on basis they would pay deposit by end of Nov, but they never did, sat down with them in Dec to work out a plan for them to pay over a period of a few months, they made partial payment, 500 out of 1400, tried to negogiate a solution again but all communication broke down. They also were consistenly paying their rent late every month. I issued an evicition notice and contacted their social welfare officer to explain the situation, he was very sympathetic and offered to put the last months cheque on hold and send to me direcly once tenents move out to ensure I got payment. 

They however ignored eviction notice, when I called them a couple of days before the notice expired to ask them would they be moving they advised me they wouldn't, on the same call I asked could I make an appointement to view the premises they were non responsive. A week later I got a call from Threshold, advising me I could not evict the tenents until the PRTB hearing, I was extrememly alarmed when I got the call, as the lady informed me the tenents had visited her, I asked her had they accussed me as a landlord of harrasing them to leave, she said no, but I don't know why I got the call if they didn't make such an accusation? 

Currently waiting for PRTB to view the case, social welfare officer still holding the cheques( which now mount to 3.5K)

My concerns are:

Tenants are fabricating lies about me being an unreasonable landlord, will this be considered by PRTB? I don't know of any evidence they can produce to support this but their visit to Threshold has alarmed me!

I fear I am facing a long period of time before I see the back of these tenants, and since I can't give them a reference, how will they ever find another landlord??

If PRTB uphold my eviction notice, how will it be enforced, can these tenants stay as long as they want claiming the can't find any where else to live, at what point will PRTB take into consideration I may go bankrupt? 

I was due to make a stamp duty payment which I witheld to cover my rental expenses, living in fear tax man will knock on my door some day?

What are peoples experiences with PRTB, are they always sympathetic to the tenents?

Also can social welfare make payment of backlog rent eventually to me, this is a large sum of money, I fear if tenants get their hands on it I will never see it?

All advise welcome, I probably sound a bit dramatic but extremely stressed about the situation I am a small time landlord, and really need income to cover mortgage on the property!!


----------



## Purple (25 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

A friend was in a similar situation in 2005. His tenant was three months behind with rent and was refusing to leave. I advised him to offer the tenant €1000 to leave. He did and the tenant agreed. It cost him over €5000 (three months rent at €1400 plus the €1000 and a small legal bill) but the alternative was facing into months and possibly years of no rent and endless legal costs. 
I don't know how much help the PRTB will be (I suspect they will be more of a hindrance) but whatever course of action you take your main concern should be to get them out and getting your revenue stream back up and running, getting back money comes after that. If you have a good solicitor there would be no harm asking for general advice but you may well get the same on AAM for free.

I have been a tenant and a landlord and I would much rather be a tenant; they have most of the trump cards in these situations.
Good luck and don’t be afraid to post here as much as you want.


----------



## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*



> *Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*


I'll drink it if you're stuck.


----------



## Denbo (25 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

Think I would need something a little stronger at this stage, sorry about the SP!!!


----------



## CCOVICH (26 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*



Denbo said:


> I fear I am facing a long period of time before I see the back of these tenants, and since I can't give them a reference, how will they ever find another landlord??


 
In the same way that you rented to them without first getting a deposit I guess-someone will make a mistake.



			
				Denbo said:
			
		

> I was due to make a stamp duty payment which I witheld to cover my rental expenses, living in fear tax man will knock on my door some day?


 
You are still due to make a stamp duty payment and interest and penalties could very well be accruing on a daily basis.  A loss making rental property does not entitle you to any relief in this situation.  You may wish to either talk to Revenue directly or through a professional advisor as soon as possible.



			
				Debno said:
			
		

> Also can social welfare make payment of backlog rent eventually to me, this is a large sum of money, I fear if tenants get their hands on it I will never see it?


 
From what I have heard, I don't think they will pay this money.



			
				Denbo said:
			
		

> All advise welcome, I probably sound a bit dramatic but extremely stressed about the situation I am a small time landlord, and really need income to cover mortgage on the property!!


 
I hope it works out for you, but this illustrates the issues that many 'small time' landlords need to be aware of before taking the business decision to invest in rental property.


----------



## MrMan (26 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

Hi Denbo,

Its worth making a fuss to your local representative. The issue with social welfare tenants is they get their deposit from SW and that deposit is supposed to be taken from one place to the next i.e they get one deposit to last a lifetime. I don't see how the SW can justify holding the cheques until this is sorted out because their clients are still living under your roof. Social services do have a responsibility here and this is where you should apply your pressure. You've paid enough already for your mistakes, so don't sit back and wait for the PRTB to sort the issue for you. Ask the social welfare for confirmation in writing for the amount of rent that they are holding, that will be paid when the situation is resolved. Then send a letter to the most active local representative in your area and ask why are you being victimised by the social welfare i.e they are with holding your rental income.

Regarding the stamp duty, definitely get to the revenue and explain your situation.


----------



## csirl (26 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

You could talk to social welfare and ask to be paid directly rather than thru tennants. 

If I were you, I'd get rid of the tennants as soon as possible. No telling what damage they are doing to your property, what unpaid utility bills they are running up and what other sources of credit they are availing of using your address.


----------



## CCOVICH (26 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*



csirl said:


> If I were you, I'd get rid of the tennants as soon as possible. No telling what damage they are doing to your property, what unpaid utility bills they are running up and what other sources of credit they are availing of using your address.


 

They _are_ trying to get rid of the tenants but cannot do so unilaterally.


----------



## gotsomenow (26 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

When you say SW, do you mean rent allowance given out by a community welfare officer?  If so, I would get myself down to that particular CWO and meet him/her, explain your situation and hopefully a face to face will prompt them to pay you what is owed.  Bring a statement of what has/has not been paid.   It is a ridiculous situation and I hope you get something sorted.

By the way, I know someone that did the above and it worked out for them.

G


----------



## simplyjoe (27 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

I know threshold are there to represent tenants but do they not have an obligation to ensure the law is upheld? It seems like they are the ones doing the bullying. If it can be proved that these people intended to not pay the rent are they guilty of a criminal offence? Would such proof include a pattern of such behaviour in the past. In Germany tenants have huge rights all enforceable by law but on the other hand tenants that misbehave are equally treated with severe punishment and promptly.


----------



## bond-007 (31 Jul 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

There is no way that a CWO or Social Welfare will accede to your request for direct payment. The tenant can ask them to pay you direct not the other way round.


----------



## NHG (1 Aug 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*

We had a case back on the 11 April this year where we tried to evict a tenant under the Anti-social behaviour 7 day eviction Order route with the PRTB to date our case has not been heard. (Tenant threatened to shoot my dad).

Luckily as ours was a case that the guards decided to press a case against and the fact that we live locally and the friends of this guy live locally they got around him to move out of his own accord - leaving a nice tail of bills behind him.

My dad contacted the PRTB yesterday and they said that the case should be heard during september - Its a total disgrace! We pay good money to register our properties and tenants and then when we have a problem we have to pay another €25 and it still gets left on the long finger even though they say its an emergency case and fits into the 7 day notice requirement.

Why should the social welfare hold onto your money - it should be paid directly into your account not on hold til the case is sorted.

If I was back again I would not register my property with the PRTB. I friend of mine is having trouble with a landlord and he is not registered with the PRTB and my friend rang PRTB to tell them that he was not registered and they said that there is nothing they can do when he's not registered - I thought they were going to fine landlords who did'nt register.  They paid rent in cash, he would'nt give a receipt so that they could claim their tax free allowances and he refused to give them back their deposit saying that they painted the place - they did and imporved the place while living there 2 years - they have now found out that the house had been condemned by the authorities before they moved in. There is no justice for the people who try things by the book.


----------



## gotsomenow (1 Aug 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*



bond-007 said:


> There is no way that a CWO or Social Welfare will accede to your request for direct payment. The tenant can ask them to pay you direct not the other way round.



I have to disagree.  My brothers wife had a similar problem.  She approached the CWO and they contacted the tenants to notify them she was claiming the arrears and within a week she had a cheque issued to her.  Maybe this is not the norm, but surely worth a try.  If hardship/difficulties are being experienced by the OP as a result of the tenants not paying this will only stand in his/her favour.  

G


----------



## mangos (2 Aug 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents - help!*

Hi

The tenants moved in, in Nov 2006-you discussed matters with them in Dec 2006-when did you issue the eviction notice and was it in writing??  You are entitled to remove tenants from your property before the end of the first 6 months of tenancy without an explanation & if you give them the required period of notice.

Mangos


----------



## Purple (2 Aug 2007)

*Re: Can't get rid of tennents, HELP?*



bond-007 said:


> There is no way that a CWO or Social Welfare will accede to your request for direct payment. The tenant can ask them to pay you direct not the other way round.


I also disagree. A friend had problems with SW tenants not paying rent and SW had the payment made directly into his account.


----------



## NHG (3 Aug 2007)

Mangos is spot-on - get your solicitor to work on it!


----------

