# Form 11, Form 11e or Form 12



## Tim Robbins (8 Jun 2012)

Gi,
I am PAYE worker and also rent out my apartment.

Previously I have done Form 12 returns but I think I may have to do Form 11 this year.

Getting confused by all this.  Can anyone tell me when I do:

1. Form 11
2. Form 11e
3. Form 12

Just so I am 100% sure.

Thanks.


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## Black Sheep (8 Jun 2012)

If your income from self employment/rental is under E5,000 the form 12 will be ok.  

If it's over that form 11e. This will take you out of the PAYE system and you will be dealing with self assessment system (a pain in the b....)


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## Tim Robbins (10 Jun 2012)

Black Sheep said:


> If your income from self employment/rental is under E5,000 the form 12 will be ok.
> 
> If it's over that form 11e. This will take you out of the PAYE system and you will be dealing with self assessment system (a pain in the b....)


I thought the threshold was lower than 5,000?  And does your PAYE income not make any difference?


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## Black Sheep (10 Jun 2012)

*1) Definition*

  All self-employed persons aged between 16 and 66 years of age, with  reckonable income or emoluments of €5,000 or more per year, are liable  for compulsory insurance at Class S.


*6) Rates of Contributions*

  Standard Rate:      Class S contributions are payable at 4%
                           of reckonable income - subject to a minimum
                           payment of €253.

Your PAYE income will be taxed as usual through your employment and you will declare your Rental income on the Form 11e or 12 as appropriate. Both are then added together and taxed at the appropriate rates


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## mandelbrot (10 Jun 2012)

Black Sheep said:


> *1) Definition*
> 
> All self-employed persons aged between 16 and 66 years of age, with  reckonable income or emoluments of €5,000 or more per year, are liable  for compulsory insurance at Class S.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure about the relevance of the above to the OP's question, which was in relation to what tax return they should be completing.

OP if your net income from non-PAYE income exceeds €3,174, then you are a chargeable person, and required to complete a self-assessment return (Form 11 or Form 11e).

Form 11e is just a slightly truncated Form 11. If you're going to have to file under self-assessment, you'd probably be better off to just do it online, using ROS (not the same thing as PAYE anytime), as it will calculate your liability etc... for you.


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## Black Sheep (11 Jun 2012)

That figure of 3174 changed to 5,000 in 2011


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## mandelbrot (11 Jun 2012)

Black Sheep said:


> That figure of 3174 changed to 5,000 in 2011



For PRSI purposes yes, but try as I might I can't see that change in any of the recent Finance Acts or any of the material on the Revenue website? 

What you've quoted is clearly DSP information, but have you seen anything that says the definition of a chargeable person for tax purposes has been amended likewise (I know it would be sensible if it had, but that doesn't mean anything!).


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## Black Sheep (12 Jun 2012)

You're correct of course. Just wasn't thinking at the time.
No logic in revenue


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## mandelbrot (13 Jun 2012)

Or maybe DSP went on a solo run! Either way it's a bit bizarre.


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