# Issue with cheque "A/c payee only"



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

Hello

My father passed away and in his will he left everything to my mother. My mother was the executor and she has probate. 

She has in her possession a cheque payable to my father "a/c payee only". It's not for a large amount. 

So far two banks have refused to lodge the cheque to her account (I sent them copies of everything - probate/will/death cert).

Aside from a statement that it is not their policy to lodge an "a/c payee only" cheque to a different account I cannot get a clear reason for their refusal

My knowledge in this area is very limited but is my mother not the legal owner of these funds?

If my father had an account with these banks I am guessing that the banks would release those funds to her (perhaps I am incorrect) ..... and to me this cheque is simply one step removed from this. 

In case you are wondering if we returned the cheque to the sender and ask them to reissue there would be fees to be paid that would put a significant dent in the cheque so keen to avoid that if we can. 

Would anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on this.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## Maread (21 Aug 2009)

Hi,
I'm no expert, but suggest your mum goes to her solicitors who dealt with the probate etc and ask them to write to the bank manager explaining the situation.  Presumably they would have dealt with the bank, changing the account to your mother's name.


----------



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

Hello Maread

Thanks for your suggestion. However we did probate ourselves (it was a very simple estate). 

I wrote to the banks myself and set out the position very clearly for them. In addition I offered to indemnify them to the value of the cheque. 

No success though!


----------



## Cashstrapped (21 Aug 2009)

I'm not sure if this can be done but did your Mam and Dad have a shared account anywhere, could she lodge it into that even by doing a quick-lodge so no questions are asked, worth a try I would think.

Also have you tried to lodge to the Credit Union, I have always found them to be a little less aware of the in's and out's of such cheques, just get your mam to sign it and lodge it to her account, again worth a try.


----------



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

Hello Cashstrapped

Unfortunately they had no jt accounts and she doesn't have a credit union a/c either. Good thoughts though. 

My big mistake/regret was closing my fathers a/c in the bank last year. If I hadn't done that we could lodge to his a/c and then transfer out - I have all his PIN numbers!

Cheers


----------



## Cashstrapped (21 Aug 2009)

Thats a pity Dave, one last thought there is no chance anyone else shares the same name as your late father, be it a brother of yours or a cousin so they could lodge it and then give the cash to your mother, grasping at straws I know.


----------



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

Funny you should mention that Cashstrapped. One of my friends at work suggested the same thing. 

As it happens my middle name is the same as my fathers first name and my own a/c is in my full name so I have toyed with the idea of trying to lodge it to my own a/c and then giving the cash to my mother. 

If I thought the bank wouldn't question it I'd do exactly that but I'd be a little nervous of the implications if they looked into it. 

It might be a last resort option though.


----------



## irishmoss (21 Aug 2009)

Is the cheque not out of date now though or is it a bank draft?


----------



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

It's a cheque and it's still valid.  Cheers


----------



## levelpar (21 Aug 2009)

As far as I am aware , the term a/c payee only  means that the cheque must be lodged to the account of the payee only which is your father. 

This lodgement along with whatever else is in the account would become part of your father's estate.

With regard to the suggestions of obtaining the funds by other means, namely using someone with the same name as your late father, I think that this would amount to fraud


----------



## 1dave123 (21 Aug 2009)

Hello Levelpar

My mother is the sole beneficiary of that estate and also the executor. She has probate. 

I don't get any sense from the bank that they doubt the legal entitlement to the funds - but for technical reasons they won't lodge the money to her a/c. 

To date I have not been able to persuade them to take a more pragmatic approach.


----------



## Cashstrapped (22 Aug 2009)

levelpar said:


> With regard to the suggestions of obtaining the funds by other means, namely using someone with the same name as your late father, I think that this would amount to fraud




Oops, wasn't meant to be a suggestion on doing something intentionally fraudulent, sorry OP thought it might be something that might be able to be done as I share the same name as my mam and have often lodged cheques payable to her into my account as she doesn't have a bank account either.


----------



## Cat101 (22 Aug 2009)

Cashstrapped said:


> Oops, wasn't meant to be a suggestion on doing something intentionally fraudulent, sorry OP thought it might be something that might be able to be done as I share the same name as my mam and have often lodged cheques payable to her into my account as she doesn't have a bank account either.


I've done the same for my Mam too.. I didn't consider it fraudulent as I hadn't stolen the cheques..
I wasn't pretending to be my Mam.
It was a request from my Mam to cash the cheque... 
Have I been breaking the law?


----------



## ACA (22 Aug 2009)

Can u not return the cheque whence it came with a letter explaining the circumstances and ask them to reissue?


----------



## Padraigb (22 Aug 2009)

A cheque crossed "a/c payee" can be endorsed in favour of another person and lodged to that person's account. Your mother is the legal representative of your father's estate, so she has the same legal capacity to endorse a cheque as your father would have had. An endorsement by her "as executor of the estate of ..." should be sufficient.


----------



## 1dave123 (22 Aug 2009)

Hello Padraigb

Thanks for your suggestion which would be consistent with my own thinking. 

However the banks are giving us a forward defensive on this one and taking a very strict line .. "A/c payee only" means the cheque can only be lodged to that named a/c. 

However I might use your specific line in my next correspondence with them.  

Cheers


----------



## Padraigb (22 Aug 2009)

"A/c payee only" is a general crossing, and does not limit it to being lodged in a particular account, or an account bearing the name of the payee. You could use such a cheque to pay for goods in a shop, and the shop could lodge it with the rest of its day's takings.

The catch is that no bank other than the one on which it is drawn has any obligation to deal with the cheque. It might be worth contacting that bank and asking them to sort things out. After all, your mother is entitled to the money.


----------



## 1dave123 (22 Aug 2009)

Thanks Padraigb

I was not aware of that. That's an option I had not considered. 

Cheers


----------



## levelpar (22 Aug 2009)

> A/c payee only" is a general crossing, and does not limit it to being lodged in a particular account


 
Surely "only" means payee and no one else


----------



## Padraigb (23 Aug 2009)

levelpar said:


> Surely "only" means payee and no one else



The words might suggest that, but long-established banking practice says otherwise. I suspect that it turns on the point that endorsing a cheque in favour of another person makes that person the payee.


----------



## levelpar (24 Aug 2009)

> The words might suggest that, but long-established banking practice says otherwise. I suspect that it turns on the point that endorsing a cheque in favour of another person makes that person the payee.


 
"  A/C payee only" surely means that the cheque has to be lodged to the account of the person in whose name it is made out  and as that person has died , it cannot be endorsed 

Of course, maybe anything goes nowadays


----------



## Mpsox (24 Aug 2009)

A/c Payee only and the requirement to lodge it to an account with the payees name only is not mentioned in any statute.  

However case law has set a precedence that if a bank accepts such a cheque into an account other then that of the payee, without carrying out sufficient investigation it can be held to be negligent if an issue arises subsequently


----------



## Padraigb (24 Aug 2009)

If levelpar's interpretation were correct, then we would have an absurd situation where a bank could hold on to money which it had been ordered to pay out. If a cheque is not defective, it should be honoured. 

I am not familiar with the precedent Mpsox mentions, but I am quite happy to believe it: it seems very reasonable. My opinion of reasonableness also includes the view that inspection of the Grant of Probate would amount to "sufficient investigation".


----------



## MaryBe (24 Aug 2009)

Padraigb said:


> A cheque crossed "a/c payee" can be endorsed in favour of another person and lodged to that person's account. Your mother is the legal representative of your father's estate, so she has the same legal capacity to endorse a cheque as your father would have had. An endorsement by her "as executor of the estate of ..." should be sufficient.


 One upon a time the banks accepted endorsed "A/C Payee Only" cheques - not now. I've had endless trouble with one particular bank over this and they maintain it has always been the case, even though I proved to them that they habitually accepted endorsed crossed cheques before.  It seems the banks are now tightening up so much that it will become impossible to get even your own money out!!


----------



## levelpar (24 Aug 2009)

> If levelpar's interpretation were correct, then we would have an absurd situation where a bank could hold on to money which it had been ordered to pay out


 
Ordered to pay out by whom?


----------



## Padraigb (24 Aug 2009)

levelpar said:


> Ordered to pay out by whom?



By the person who signed the cheque. Look at a cheque: the formula of words starts with "Pay ...". It is a written order from an authorised signatory on an account to the banker to pay a stipulated amount to somebody.


----------



## Seagull (24 Aug 2009)

Has the estate been finalised, and all your father's accounts closed? If so, can you not contact whoever issued the check and ask them to send a new one.


----------



## Peeete (24 Aug 2009)

Seagull... the reasons for not getting it re-issued have been outlined by the OP in the earlier part of the thread.


----------



## levelpar (24 Aug 2009)

> By the person who signed the cheque. Look at a cheque: the formula of words starts with "Pay ...". It is a written order from an authorised signatory on an account to the banker to pay a stipulated amount to somebody


 
Yes and in this case that "authorised signatory"   who made out the "written order" made it payable to someone who since died  and for some reason made to A/C payee only.


----------



## Padraigb (24 Aug 2009)

levelpar said:


> Yes and in this case that "authorised signatory"   who made out the "written order" made it payable to someone who since died  and for some reason made to A/C payee only.



None of that would invalidate the right of the executor to receive the moneys.


----------



## demoivre (24 Aug 2009)

MaryBM said:


> One upon a time the banks accepted endorsed "A/C Payee Only" cheques - not now. I've had endless trouble with one particular bank over this and they maintain it has always been the case, even though I proved to them that they habitually accepted endorsed crossed cheques before.  It seems the banks are now tightening up so much that it will become impossible to get even your own money out!!



One of my daughters received an "A/C Payee Only" cheque for her birthday recently. I gave her the cash and lodged the endorsed cheque in an account of mine in Permanent TSB and didn't have any problems.


----------



## mickeyg (2 Sep 2013)

*Crossed Cheque*

In the situation where a cheque is crossed "a/c Payee Only". Is it possible to lodge to a different account by using the automated Lodgment machine sin the lobby of almost all the banks now??


----------



## robbie00 (2 Sep 2013)

No it will be checked before processing and then sent back to the person who tried to depoist it incorrectly.


----------

