# Checklist to lower the risk for landlord



## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

I don't agree with relatives decision to rent out a house  .but rightly or wrong they going ahead ..they will be renting  to a professional couple with 2 small kids.

Any advice on tasks that lower the risk ?

A lease..is there a link to an update template?

Deposit..what the going rate ..1 month 2 months?

Take pictures of the house beforehand

References ..whats OK to ask for ..previous landlord..employer?

I've never rented so I'm clueless but want  to gather collective wisdom / experience here to advise them best i can ..

Thanks


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## LS400 (6 Apr 2021)

Are they as clueless?

if so, don’t get involved, and let an agent take care of business.


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## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

LS400 said:


> Are they as clueless?
> 
> if so, don’t get involved, and let an agent take care of business.


As I said at the start ..I don't agree with the decision..but they going ahead anyway ...they don't want to.use an agent ...it is what it is ...any help appreciated


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> I've never rented so I'm clueless but want to gather collective wisdom / experience here to advise them best i can ..


Use an agent for letting and management.


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## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Use an agent for letting and management.


They dont want to use an agent..nothing to.do with saving money .they dont need to rent it and trying to do this couple a favour....hence I'm asking here...


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> They dont want to use an agent...hence I'm asking here


Well they should if they don't know the very basics.

It looks like they are paying tax at the higher rate and with two kids won't have much time on their hands.

Agent costs are deductible against tax and a good agent is really worth it.


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## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Well they should if they don't know the very basics.
> 
> It looks like they are paying tax at the higher rate and with two kids won't have much time on their hands.
> 
> Agent costs are deductible against tax and a good agent is really worth it.


Maybe my bad..the landlords took early retirement ...they have property ..just asset allocation..they dont need to rent it out ..they have been approached by a professional couple with 2 kids who are desperate to live in the area ..they trying to help them out ...correction they are going to help them out .....I thought I'd ask here ..


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Apr 2021)

Sorry I misread.

There is a lot of info on the RTB website if they are going with a DIY approach.


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## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Sorry I misread.
> 
> There is a lot of info on the RTB website if they are going with a DIY approach.


Thanks. Do they have to register with the RTB?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> Do they have to register with the RTB?


Yes.


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## tom_tom (6 Apr 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Yes.


Thanks


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## noproblem (7 Apr 2021)

Have a look at today's Irish Indo and read what really happens today in the letting business. By the way, it's happening more and more every day and not a word about it. Below is a small extract of one story.

"The landlords of a Limerick property have spoken out about the emotional and financial stress they’ve experienced after a two-year dispute with their tenant, who owes more than €27,000 in rent.

Dan Corbett and his wife, Joy King-Corbett, took a case with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) after their tenant stopped paying rent in December 2018.

The RTB found in their favour, ordering the tenant to vacate the premises and pay the outstanding rent of €5,052 in 25 consecutive payments of €200.

However, nearly two years later, she is still living in the house"


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

noproblem said:


> Have a look at today's Irish Indo and read what really happens today in the letting business. By the way, it's happening more and more every day and not a word about it. Below is a small extract of one story.
> 
> "The landlords of a Limerick property have spoken out about the emotional and financial stress they’ve experienced after a two-year dispute with their tenant, who owes more than €27,000 in rent.
> 
> ...


Yup I read that today ..personally I would not be a landlord..and there's good reason my relative shouldn't be ..but ..they've made a decision...there's a lot of worse case scenarios...and I don't believe the RTB (or the PSRA sure half the letting agents in Dublin not registered  or homebond) is worth a toss ..but I do want to be aware of what their responsibilities are and try protect the downside


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## CuriousCork (7 Apr 2021)

We have two properties rented out through agents. We pay them 10% and it is the best money we can spend. We have never had issues with tenants, as they know how to vet tenants and take up references.


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## elcato (7 Apr 2021)

My advice would be to concentrate on the people who approached them first. How and why did they (ask themselves this btw) approach ? How well do they know them ? Check out their employment status by linkln. Google their names. Find out as much as you can about them. Where are they living now ? Who is their landlord ?


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## dereko1969 (7 Apr 2021)

Get a reference from previous landlord.
Get details of their employment, if they know you know who employs them it may reduce potential maggot acting.
Make sure utilities go in their name not your relatives.
Don't overthink it.


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

elcato said:


> My advice would be to concentrate on the people who approached them first. How and why did they (ask themselves this btw) approach ? How well do they know them ? Check out their employment status by linkln. Google their names. Find out as much as you can about them. Where are they living now ? Who is their landlord ?


Long story the couple former home owners in the area are now in limbo there's no suitable houses for rent in the area and approached every possible contact until my relatives name came up


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

dereko1969 said:


> Get a reference from previous landlord.
> Get details of their employment, if they know you know who employs them it may reduce potential maggot acting.
> Make sure utilities go in their name not your relatives.
> Don't overthink it.


Thanks
Apart from knowing they have a job ..what specifically does knowing their employer matter ...is it just potential loss of reputation if things got messy


CuriousCork said:


> We have two properties rented out through agents. We pay them 10% and it is the best money we can spend. We have never had issues with tenants, as they know how to vet tenants and take up references.


Yup ..whilst I'd never be a landlord myself if I found myself in that situation I'd use a agency ..but everyone's different .
Having said that ..I know of one letting agent  not registered with a string of judgements against them ...Happily making a living as of right now...runs a brass plate operation..nothing for the sheriff to grab when they come calling to enforce the writ ....lots of strong language from PSRA but sweet FA action.....sure use an agent its a no brainer ...hmm you just lucky if you have decent tenent and a decent legit agent ..


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## cremeegg (7 Apr 2021)

The Limerick story and the like are outliers. I wouldnt loose sleep over that.

Problems do occur however, and the best way to avoid them is by avoiding problem tenants, not easy to identify in advance of course.

I must say I do not like the situation here. Your relatives are not just renting a property, they are renting to a defined tenant. A tenant with a hard luck story. While anyone may have a set-back in life, every problem tenant has a hard luck story. The tenants problems end up being the landlords problems, and thats true even where the problems are genuine and no fault of the tenant. 

 And I really do not like this one.



tom_tom said:


> Long story the couple former home owners in the area are now in limbo there's no suitable houses for rent in the area and approached every possible contact until my relatives name came up


is it true that there is no property available to rent in the area. That is very easy to check.


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## RedOnion (7 Apr 2021)

To summarise.
Your relatives own a 2nd property. It's currently vacant, not rented and they don't need the rental income. They don't have any intentions of selling the property.
They've been approached by a couple who would like to rent the house from them.
If they hadn't been approached, they have no interest in renting the property.

This doesn't sound like the usual case where their biggest concern is not getting rent paid on time? So what is the concern you're trying to protect them from?

Just make sure everything is above board. Registered with RTB, utilities in tenants names, correct insurance in place, and tax returns filed correctly. They can ask for 2 months rent as deposit.


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

RedOnion said:


> To summarise.
> Your relatives own a 2nd property. It's currently vacant, not rented and they don't need the rental income. They don't have any intentions of selling the property.
> They've been approached by a couple who would like to rent the house from them.
> If they hadn't been approached, they have no interest in renting the property.
> ...


Thats it ..and If what you said at the end is it then fine ...

1. The tenent stops paying the rent ..they dont need it but it may cause stress.

2. They decide or need to sell in 2yrs ..and having followed the process the tenent won't move


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

cremeegg said:


> The Limerick story and the like are outliers. I wouldnt loose sleep over that.
> 
> Problems do occur however, and the best way to avoid them is by avoiding problem tenants, not easy to identify in advance of course.
> 
> ...


Its true ..I checked ...only apartments..and a couple far to big with monster rent


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

cremeegg said:


> The Limerick story and the like are outliers. I wouldnt loose sleep over that.
> 
> Problems do occur however, and the best way to avoid them is by avoiding problem tenants, not easy to identify in advance of course.
> 
> ...


Interesting point ..but what filters would you suggest to find the best tenent ?

Its a couple with kids, jobs (i don't believe a word i read on linkedin but yeah they are both there) ..they had a property in tbe area but sold it and are now in limbo....the evidence of that is the.kids are in the local school ..that has been verified


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## RedOnion (7 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> they had a property in tbe area but sold it and are now in limbo..


Do you know why they sold it? Were they trying to trade up, or was the house repossessed? What are their intentions - are they hoping to buy in the short term if a house comes available, or rent for the forseeable future?


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

RedOnion said:


> Do you know why they sold it? Were they trying to trade up, or was the house repossessed? What are their intentions - are they hoping to buy in the short term if a house comes available, or rent for the forseeable future?


Yes ..the sale was verified ..the limbo part unclear but no suggestion or evidence of any issues with the couple....intentions are to buy again


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## Gordon Gekko (7 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> Long story the couple former home owners in the area are now in limbo there's no suitable houses for rent in the area and approached every possible contact until my relatives name came up



Run a mile.

My read through is that these potential tenants are the entitled sort who’ve run into financial difficulty and can’t accept that they can no longer afford to live there.

People who get into financial difficulty once are more likely to do so again. And then your relatives become the patsies.


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## cremeegg (7 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> Interesting point ..but what filters would you suggest to find the best tenent ?


There is no magic method, but if you can confirm that they are not in financial difficulties that is a good start. If they can pay a good deposit and a months rent in advance that is a good sign.



tom_tom said:


> .they had a property in tbe area but sold it and are now in limbo....the evidence of that is the.kids are in the local school ..that has been verified


Kids in school in the area. If these people find themselves unable to pay the rent, and that can happen, will they willingly move out.

As a practical suggestion I think your relatives are entitled to ask for a detailed explanation of how this family sold and now have no accommodation, and to see that they can comfortably afford to pay the agreed rent.


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## elcato (7 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> approached every possible contact until my relatives name came up


Well everybody else has managed to say no, alarm bells


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Run a mile.
> 
> My read through is that these potential tenants are the entitled sort who’ve run into financial difficulty and can’t accept that they can no longer afford to live there.
> 
> People who get into financial difficulty once are more likely to do so again. And then your relatives become the patsies.


They are right to be cautious..but thats not the case here..there's no suggestion or evidence of financial struggle


elcato said:


> Well everybody else has managed to say no, alarm bells


To clarify....they asked around the neighbourhood for ..off market opportunities and I think through a neighbour of the vacant house got in touch ....as I said my advice was not to proceed..but the decision already made so they just want to ensure they follow the process


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## SPC100 (7 Apr 2021)

What you really want to know is that they are honest, responsible, live within the law,  pay their debts, can afford to pay the rent (potentially even on reduced income) but all of that is hard to determine.

It is all too easy to fake references, and have fake referees.

You could try to organise to visit them where they are currently living, to try and get some measure of them, and see how they have handled their current property.

Biggest risk is non payment and or destroying the house and or refusing to leave.

Biggest protection against these IMO is to know that they have the money or earning capacity to pay e.g. 
a) Have they have a lot of money in the bank/invested (relative to the price of the house, e.g. a couple of years of rent)
b) a lot of earning power (relative to the market rent)
c) they can afford the rent (i.e. all the earning power is not spent on lifestyle, new cars, private schools, gambling, drink, drugs etc.,)

If they have sold and are looking for another house they might have a lot of money? If there were forced to sell they might have none?

Seeing their actual mortgage approval (for the house they plan to buy, assuming they are between sales?) might at least indicate that a bank thinkgs they are good for a repyament capacity of x.

They approached your relative, and have no other options apparently, so I think your relative could easily request to see bank statements, and P60s for last few years, to help determine their financial situation. I don't think this is typically requested in Ireland today, but in my opinion it is sensible. Many tenants might feel this is too invasive, but these particular ones are trying to convince your family.

Biggest hassle would be constantly late payment or tenants constantly asking for things.


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

SPC100 said:


> What you really want to know is that they are honest, responsible, live within the law,  pay their debts, can afford to pay the rent (potentially even on reduced income) but all of that is hard to determine.
> 
> It is all too easy to fake references, and have fake referees.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that  .


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## Gordon Gekko (7 Apr 2021)

If these people sold their house, then they have cash. The landlord could look for a bigger deposit and more rent paid upfront.


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## tom_tom (7 Apr 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> If these people sold their house, then they have cash. The landlord could look for a bigger deposit and more rent paid upfront.


They do have cash ..got it ..that will be factored into the deal


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## dereko1969 (8 Apr 2021)

Get 3 months deposit.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Apr 2021)

There is no legal maximum but the RTB recommends one month's rent payment as deposit.

If you are looking for three months deposit then you feel there is a big risk of non-payment of rent.  Which should make you ask why you are accepting these tenants in the first place......


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## Buddyboy (8 Apr 2021)

tom_tom said:


> ..as I said my advice was not to proceed..but the decision already made so they just want to ensure they follow the process



If they ignored your advice in the first place, what makes you think they will follow any advice you are going to give now?

For example, if you say they should get 3 months rent as deposit, they might just turn around and ignore that and get 1 months.

I'm saying this with the best of intentions, you appear to be spending a lot of time on their behalf, when they ignored your (sound) advice in the first instance.

And if it goes pear-shaped, will you be blamed? e.g. "you said to get 3 months rent, but now they haven't paid rent for 6 months and won't leave".

If it was me, based on what your have said (and the responses you have been given), I would tell them that they have ignored your advice and obviously think they know better, so off with them. Let them do the research on how to get good tenants.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Apr 2021)

Buddyboy said:


> If it was me, based on what your have said (and the responses you have been given), I would tell them that they have ignored your advice and obviously think they know better, so off with them. Let them do the research on how to get good tenants.


+ 1


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## tom_tom (8 Apr 2021)

Buddyboy said:


> If they ignored your advice in the first place, what makes you think they will follow any advice you are going to give now?
> 
> For example, if you say they should get 3 months rent as deposit, they might just turn around and ignore that and get 1 months.
> 
> ...



I've got some good general advice from the thread...and that's all I'll be passing on ..here's the links heres the key variables and some things to consider ...thats it ...the decision was made before I got involved.


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