# BoI Accepted tracker, then called about new fixed rate



## todo (19 Mar 2014)

Hi All,
   This is my first post, but I've used the site many times, its excellent. I thought I'd post here rather then start a new thread as this one sort of matches what I did.


I was first offered a fixed rate which I turned down.

I was then offered a tracker which I accepted and was very happy with it, a few days after accepting I got a phone call to tell me about a new lower fixed rate. During the discussions on the phone I was helped decide to take the new fixed rate offer.

Do you think I have any chance of getting the tracker that I was offered. If they had not called me I would never have changed.

Do I have a leg to stand on?

Many Thanks.


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## emeralds (19 Mar 2014)

When was this? Do you have anything in writing?


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Mar 2014)

I have moved this post as it bore little relation to the other thread.

It's unlikely you have a case, but it's probably worth pursuing. 

When did this happen? There is a 6 year time limit to complain, so if it happened before March 2008, then you are time barred. 

If you had posted here at the time, you would probably have got diverging views on whether to fix or go for the tracker. In retrospect it was the  wrong decision, but it is not possible to say that it was wrong at the time. 

You would have to have a strong record of them almost forcing the fixed rate on you against your will to have any chance. 

In one of the cases, the Ombudsman or the court held that as the person selling the mortgage was described as a "Mortgage Advisor" the complainant had a right to rely on their advice and that their advice was bad.  Just a small point in case the person who called you was described thus.

But as I suspect that all this happened before March 2008, it's too late to do anything.


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## emeralds (19 Mar 2014)

Don't forget also that at one stage fixed rates were very attractive compared to trackers, which were rising as the ECB rate climbed.


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## todo (19 Mar 2014)

Brendan, Many thanks for moving the post.

@Emeralds, I have all of the offer letters.

@Brendan, This happened in August 2008.  

I'll check if the person had a title in there previous correspondence.

I'm very grateful for your thoughts, I know my chances are very slim but then again there is allot at stake.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Mar 2014)

OK, you have no time to lose.

Send in a letter of complaint to the bank.  They will delay in dealing with it. Ask for a Final Response Letter. Get your complaint in to the Ombudsman immediately

Don't leave it to the last minute as there could be an administrative error which would cause you to miss the deadline. If you do it immediately, and you forget to sign the form or whatever, you will have time to fix it.  

Brendan


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## todo (19 Mar 2014)

Thanks Brendan


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## Bronte (20 Mar 2014)

I don't see how this is a runner, he was made various offers, and ultimately he decided against the tracker and for the lower rate, how is that the banks fault.


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## emeralds (20 Mar 2014)

What was the fixed rate you were offered? Our tracker rate is ECB + .95 and in March 2008 we were paying 4.95% (ECB rate then was 4%)


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## PadKiss (20 Mar 2014)

Ho todo
A few questions re your mortgage account
1)Was there a rate mentioned after the fix rate term ended, 
2)what bank are we talking about here. 
3)Did the loan close on the fixed rate or the tracker rate
4)when you say you accepted the tracker rate and subsequently changed to a fixed rate did you sign forms todo so (sorry about the pun) ie did the laon commence as a fixed or as a tracker.
5) some lenders stated on loan offers that were initially fixed, the rate the loan would move to after the initial fixed rate period is there anything on your loan offer 
Would need a bit more info here to fully advise but hope this helps somewhat Padraic


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Mar 2014)

> 5) some lenders stated on loan offers that were initially fixed, the  rate the loan would move to after the initial fixed rate period is there  anything on your loan offer



This really is your best chance. 

What does your loan agreement or letter of offer say? 

Some people took out tracker mortgages, but fixed for the first two years. After that, they should have gone onto trackers. 

Brendan


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

emeralds said:


> What was the fixed rate you were offered? Our tracker rate is ECB + .95 and in March 2008 we were paying 4.95% (ECB rate then was 4%)



The rate was ECB + 1.20, I think it would have been 5.4%


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

PadKiss said:


> Ho todo
> A few questions re your mortgage account
> 1)Was there a rate mentioned after the fix rate term ended,
> 2)what bank are we talking about here.
> ...



Hi Padraic

1) Yes the remainder was mentioned as "Variable at 5.450%"
2) Boi
3) On the fixed rate
4) I did sign the offer letter for the tracker and sent it back to the mortgage advisor, I think at this point the bank should have sent the details to my solicitor but my solicitor did not get any documents for the tracker. I guess what happened was the mortgage advisor called me and asked if I'd take the new fixed rate of 5.20% and then sent out the new offer letter. (if i'd missed that call, i'd be a lot better off now!!)
5) It mentions the remainder variable at 5.450%

Thank you for looking at this, if you need any other details just ask.


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> This really is your best chance.
> 
> What does your loan agreement or letter of offer say?
> 
> ...



No the agreement does not appear to have the special condition that the tracker offer has in relation to ecb rate.

On the other hand I don't think it was explained at any point that the tracker may not be available after the fixed period, so the new rate was an easy sell.

Thanks again.


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2014)

todo said:


> 4) I did sign the offer letter for the tracker and sent it back to the mortgage advisor,
> 
> I guess what happened was the mortgage advisor called me and asked if I'd take the new fixed rate of 5.20% and then sent out the new offer letter.
> 
> .


 
To me you got an offer of a tracker, you signed for it, but didn't take it as you then took the new offer of the fixed rate mortgage, and you drew down a fixed rate mortgage not a tracker mortgage. When people apply for a mortgage they can get different 'offers' from the bank. It's what they sign for and take that is important.

In your case you actually had 3 different offers, as you turned down the original offer of a high fixed rate.  

What was the tracker rate, and what was the low fixed rate and how long did it last?

If the offer you signed said fixed rate for x time reverting to tracker, then you might have a case.


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## emeralds (21 Mar 2014)

In early 2008 the ECB rate was climbing. A fixed rate of 5.2% would have looked attractive. We took out our mortgage in 2005 with our tracker rate. I remember that in 2008 we had a conversation about fixing. In hindsight I am very glad we didn't but I remember various commentators saying that those on trackers should fix because the fixed rates were going to be very attactive when the ECB rate went higher...


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2014)

That's it in a nutshell Emeralds, it's very very easy for us to look back now and say it was a case of mis selling or whatever, but at the time I would imagine it was the right decision for the borrower.


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

Bronte said:


> To me you got an offer of a tracker, you signed for it, but didn't take it as you then took the new offer of the fixed rate mortgage, and you drew down a fixed rate mortgage not a tracker mortgage. When people apply for a mortgage they can get different 'offers' from the bank. It's what they sign for and take that is important.
> 
> In your case you actually had 3 different offers, as you turned down the original offer of a high fixed rate.
> 
> ...



Bronte, thanks for your response. I think you are likely correct, I don't have any real grounds.

But to answer your questions, just in case

What was the tracker rate, and what was the low fixed rate and how long did it last?
1st Offer : 2yr fixed at 5.74%, special conditions state 1.25% + ecb after fixed period ends, there is a line item for 396 instalments Variable at 5.5% 
2nd offer : Tracker 1.2 + ecb stated in special conditions, there is a line item for 420 instalments Variable at 5.4%
3rd offer : 2yr fixed at 5.2% no mention in special conditions of what it is to return to, there is a line item for 396 instalments Variable at 5.45%

If the offer you signed said fixed rate for x time reverting to tracker, then you might have a case.
No special conditions mentioned on the third offer relating to ecb, however the 1st offer had this clause, I had not noticed this before.


I guess if the bank had some knowledge that the ecb rate was going to drop and then they created the new lower fixed rate in order to steer me way from the tracker then that would not have been the nicest thing todo. 
I had 3 offers in the space of 7 weeks, why didn't they offer the lowest fixed rate they could at the start. (I guess allot can change in a few weeks)

Could I argue that because the 3rd offer does not mention in the special conditions what will happen after the fixed term ends that I could be in some way entitled to a tracker rate or am I reaching a little bit?


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2014)

emeralds said:


> In early 2008 the ECB rate was climbing. A fixed rate of 5.2% would have looked attractive. We took out our mortgage in 2005 with our tracker rate. I remember that in 2008 we had a conversation about fixing. In hindsight I am very glad we didn't but I remember various commentators saying that those on trackers should fix because the fixed rates were going to be very attactive when the ECB rate went higher...



We probably should make a Key Post from this as it explains it so well. 



> 1st Offer : 2yr fixed at 5.74 then returning to 1.25% above ecb
> 2nd offer : Tracker 1.2 + ecb
> 3rd offer : 2yr fixed at 5.2% no mention in special conditions



Back it August 2008, the ECB rate was 4.25%

So 1st Offer:  5.74% fixed vs. 5.5% variable 
2nd offer: 5.45%
Third offer : 5.2% 

It would have seemed very reasonable to fix at 5.2% instead of taking out a variable rate of 5.5%. 

Brendan


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> We probably should make a Key Post from this as it explains it so well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess looking back the major mistake was not insuring that the second fixed offer had the same conditions as the first fixed offer.
The two offers look identical except for the special conditions on the back page. Once again the devil is in the detail.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Mar 2014)

Hi todo 

Have you both letters of offer? 

I have seen a recent ruling by the Ombudsman as follows: 

ptsb, if I remember correctly. 
Accepted Offer 1 where they fixed for 1 year and went to tracker afterwards. 
Before drawing down rang ptsb to enquire about fixing for two years.
They were told on the phone that the rate would be x. 
Got a covering letter saying "Here is revised contract where we have changed the rate and the period" 
Revised contract did not include going to tracker afterwards. 
Ombudsman upheld complaint and directed ptsb to return the tracker. 

Your case is different in that you made a choice between a tracker and a fixed rate. 
They were making a choice only between two different fixed rate periods.

Brendan


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## emeralds (21 Mar 2014)

If the euro zone crisis and financial crash had not happened, I wonder what the ECB rate would be now? And would those of us on trackers be ruing the day that we had not fixed for 5 or 10 years....


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## todo (21 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi todo
> 
> Have you both letters of offer?
> 
> Brendan



I still have all three offer packs in there original envelopes.

That is an interesting case. I think the last offer the one that I ended up taking is pretty ambiguous as to what would happen after the fixed rate period ended compared to the other two offers.


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