# Plan to take early retirement and move to Spain - advice!



## Caveat (7 Jan 2009)

Hi all

This is far from fleshed out but just wondering what the potential for semi-solvency and any other options may be.

Plan to take early retirement - say 55 - which would be in 16 years time.

By then, we expect to have savings of approx. 100K - possibly more.

We intend on paying off our mortgage too - which would leave us with complete profit from house sale here - current value approx. 280K.

Over the next 20 years or so we would also expect inheritance of around 300K. We don't have kids.

Paying into PRSA at the moment - will investigate options there - what about state pension too?

We plan to live in basic comfort, in semi retirement - maybe work part time for 10 years or so and we plan to buy modest accommodation outright.
We're not the kind of people who need much money - probably won't even keep a car for example, will grow own veg. might even keep chickens etc.

It's all very rough and a bit vague but do you think this is feasible? My main concern is that we may be comfortable enough for 10-15 years and then may struggle a bit (the longer we live! )

What support if any can i expect to get from Spain? 

Any specific advice/ideas etc?

Would really love to do this and be able to enjoy it while I'm relatively young.


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## Vanilla (7 Jan 2009)

Ahh, I love this sort of thread. That's kind of like my dream retirement, except mine would include our children and definitely no chickens, the South of France rather than Spain and a classic convertible of some sort. And if I'm entirely honest, not the vegetables or the 'basic' part of the 'basic comfort' either. Actually not really alike at all...

So anyway, where were we? Oh yeah- do you speak fluent Spanish? Will your skills translate to Spain- ie will the Caveats be employable 55 year olds in Spain? Do you know where you would like to live? If so, have you spent much time there? Is it accessible to home- ie cheap flights/ferry?


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## briancbyrne (7 Jan 2009)

id second that in terms of "have you spent much time over there"?
My parents are retired and have thier own place in Spain and spend stretches of 5-8 weeks over there at a time, but there is no way they would live there permanently....they reckon they would get bored very quickly.


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## Caveat (7 Jan 2009)

OK, to answer some questions:

Have basic Spanish - will be fluent when we move - no problem.

Have spent a fair bit of time there and like Spain and the lifestyle - have Spanish friends, have a location in mind and definitely will not get bored.

Re skills, well, we are only talking about p/t work so anything considered.
With 2 maybe 3 languages (have good French) we should be employable enough. Have skills that could be used.

Not too sure about the chickens etc BTW but just making the point that we don't need much. 

Day to day cost of living will be cheap anyway.

Accessibility should be OK but don't envisage coming back much - maybe just funerals etc.


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## Vanilla (7 Jan 2009)

The part-time job is the one that would be difficult, I think. Remember that for most unskilled jobs you still need to be completely fluent in Spanish. For the skilled jobs you may be competing with someone who has references and an academic background that is recognised while yours may not. I know quite a few of my friends who moved to France and who, despite having recognised qualifications here, could not get employment. At all. That is despite being in their 30s which is more employable than in late 50s I would think. I mean- not even say as a cashier in a supermarket, or pub work. Of course employment is notoriously difficult in France at the moment anyway- what is Spain like? 

I'd also be worried about the difference between holidays and the reality of day to day living in Spain. But if you go there a lot then it should be fine.

Have you thought about buying something now over there? Possibly buy to let?


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## Caveat (7 Jan 2009)

Vanilla said:


> The part-time job is the one that would be difficult, I think. Remember that for most unskilled jobs you still need to be completely fluent in Spanish.


 
I agree - but we will ensure we are fluent.  I think we'd be foolish to go at all otherwise.



> Of course employment is notoriously difficult in France at the moment anyway


 
I suspect that this has as much to do with French protectionism as economic conditions though - Spain are much more dependent on things like tourism and and fluent English speakers are in much greater demand.



> what is Spain like?


 
Well outside of tourism, not great I suppose. 

Might have to commute a little to a _slightly_ more touristy area to work in - but certainly won't be living there.



> I'd also be worried about the difference between holidays and the reality of day to day living in Spain.


 
You're right - you never really know - even if you think you know the country.  It's a bit of a risk I suppose . Spanish friends can and have advised re cultural pitfalls, day to day life, expectations etc -  I think we'll manage. 



> Have you thought about buying something now over there? Possibly buy to let?


 
Not going to happen - not in a financial position to do this really.


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## truthseeker (7 Jan 2009)

My OHs mother lives in Spain now (has done for around 5 years). She is not fluent in Spanish - very basic grasp of it.
She has had a number of part time jobs - never has any issues getting part time work. She tends to work part time for a few months, gives up job (occasionally job dries up due to place closing down or lack of business), comes back to Ireland for a few weeks, goes back over, looks for another part time job etc.....

The types of work she has done has been mainly bar and restaurant work. 
Due to friendships she has made there she has one or two more or less permanent offers of part time work for busy periods (summertime work), so long as she lets them know in advance if she will be free that summer.

Her day to day expenses are not high, no car, lives a simple lifestyle etc...

The area she is in is a quiet part of a bigger touristy area. There are a lot of Irish and English people either living there or spending long periods of time there.


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## Caveat (7 Jan 2009)

Sounds promising Truthseeker!

OK, purely financially, looking at numbers very roughly:

House in Spain in today's market: 180K
Our house, today's market: 280K

100K + proceeds of sale of contents/cars etc (some of which will probably furnish new house) - so leave it at 100K.

+ 100K savings

= 200K in our pockets arriving in Spain with no mortgage.

Inheritance of approx. 300K to follow (if not before)

+ PRSA x 2 + state pension x 2

+ 2 x p/t weekly incomes...

...I don't think it looks too bad?!


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## Vanilla (7 Jan 2009)

Does look good. When does the state pension kick in? At 60? And you def will be entitled to claim this in Spain and it is at parity with Ireland?

What's the medical system like( you know cause you will be getting ever more old and creaky)? 

What about cost of living- heating, electricity, water etc?

Finally what happens if one of you dies- still happy in Spain? Do you need a get-out clause to come back to Ireland and still be able to afford a house here? Maybe you could think about keeping the Irish house if the rental is good enough? Would this be actually a good income to supplement the pension? How or would this be taxable?


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## Caveat (8 Jan 2009)

TBH I know very little about pensions/PRSA etc so all this will have to be checked.



Vanilla said:


> What's the medical system like( you know cause you will be getting ever more old and creaky)?


 
Quite good - better than here and drugs/medicines are _much_ cheaper.



> What about cost of living- heating, electricity, water etc?


 
Low - no heating bills, electricity less than here:works out around €30 pm for a small house - water is metered and if you don't have a pool, it's only something like €15 pm.  Various local taxes total around €250 pa. Certainly food, eating out, alcohol, most clothes - all a lot cheaper.



> Finally what happens if one of you dies- still happy in Spain?


 
I guess cross that bridge when we come to it - haven't thought about it. But as I said, we have friends there.



> Do you need a get-out clause to come back to Ireland and still be able to afford a house here? Maybe you could think about keeping the Irish house if the rental is good enough? Would this be actually a good income to supplement the pension? How or would this be taxable?


 
Haven't really considered any of this but part of me wants to make a complete break. No idea about taxability of rental income TBH.


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## Mommah (8 Jan 2009)

is an excellent forum about living in France mainly populated by british retirees.

The upshot of what I have gleaned from it is that most british retirees last 2 years in France. Their return to blighty is driven by different factors.
Some miss being "native", some have a change in circumstances eg ill-health(particularly as one ages), some have family at home who need help. Currently many as moving back because the weakness of sterling has decimated their pensions.

There was a thread about whether or not to keep a foothold in the UK while retiring in France and the answer was a pretty unanimous YES.

They are more exposed that you because of the currency risk. But you could still be stuck out in Spain with a property you can't sell for enough to buy a home back in Ireland.

Property in France, dunno about Spain, is MUCH less liquid than property in Ireland. even in the good days it could take more than a year to shift property in France.

In France the transaction costs are extremely high, especially if you buy a house more than 5 years old, can be up to 50%.

So my advice to you, based on my knowledge of France rather than Spain is to consider:

Renting your Irish property and using the money to rent somewhere in Spain for at least 2 years. Then if you are commited to Spain, downsize the irish property, rent out the downsized property, but still keep a foothold here.

Consider your move to Spain as something you will do for 15/20yrs or so.
It is unlikely you will want to be in a foreign country as a widow/widower in ill health etc etc.


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## Lollix (24 Jan 2009)

If you're thinking of a move in ten years time, I'd advise buying someplace now while the market is flat, and putting a bit of effort into paying it off before you move. Then, as you wind down here, you can spend more and more time in the Spanish house until you are equally at home in both places; this should make the transition much less stressful.
From what I see of expats who have made the move, the key to a successful transition is fluency in the language. You need to be able to read the papers, watch TV programmes and converse with neighbours easily. Otherwise you'll always be an outsider and you won't settle in.


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## SLICODE (24 Jan 2009)

*Re: Plan to take early retirement and move to France/Italy - advice!*

Fascinating topic.  Anyone have info on life in either France or Italy.  Have always wanted to move to either.  Have very good French but no Italian - though it seems easy enough to learn with similarities in languages.

Agree with opinions about not casting yourself adrift completely and having some kind of base retained here, but would like to investigate it now so once kids have finished school - 5 years time - can try doing 3-4 months a year, and building that up over time.

From weather and lifestyle point of view, the south of France would appear to be better or have other people got a view on northern France?

and if Italy - have been to Rome, Florence, Venice, and parts of the north-western coast - but don't know the areas well.  I know Tuscany is meant to be the idyllic spot, but that's only hearsay to me.


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## korpy (25 Jan 2009)

Caveat said:


> Sounds promising Truthseeker!
> 
> OK, purely financially, looking at numbers very roughly:
> 
> ...


Beeing mortgage free you could let your house in Ireland and have another monthly income ( the rent)


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## coleen (25 Jan 2009)

I too am thinking of this. I have some spanish and am looking at becoming fluent over time. Our situation is a little different. We would be thinking of doing this in a 10 year time frame. We both have jobs now with no pensions but we have 2 propertys currently let with current rental income of 1800 per month. We would like to keep our residence here as we have grown up kids and would like to spend holidays in Ireland. We will be entitled to contributery pension at pension age 66 and should have savings of 100k. We like the idea of living somewhere warm. We both play golf so would have to have golf membership and we are also into hill walking so feel we would not be bored. We are hoping that the 1800 rental income would be enought to live off as it would be another 7 years before we quailify for contrib pension but would like to have made the move before 66. We would both consider working 2 -3 days per week or for a 12 week period. I currently work in the education sector and have done a tefl course so this might be of use. We feel by keeping our house here that we will have kept our options open. It is hard to know how much money you would need to support a comfortable lifestyle in spain.


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## Shepherd (25 Jan 2009)

Hi
I am very interested in this idea also. Can anyone recommend a good spanish forum comparable to that of the french one, Totalfrance.com.
Thanks.


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## Caveat (11 Jun 2009)

So has anyone done anything about this?

I haven't done a lot TBH but I am improving my Spanish and have an absolutely ideal location in mind.  No, not telling.


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## Mommah (13 Jun 2009)

Well yes, I'm living in France.
We planned it as a year out, mid-life crisis thing.
It has gone extremely well.

We are moving home in September...cos that's what we planned.
But honestly we are doing it a bit reluctantly.
However earning a decent wage here would be tough and would probably involve buying a business, which we are not prepared to do  right now.
For retirement it would be ideal.

You never know if things are as bad as everyone says back home, we might come back!

However, I would comment that hubby and I being together 24/7 has had its challenges. He loves it, but for me its been a big change. One that I hear from wives of retired men all the time. Before retirement they are often the boss at work and then they retire and start to unwittingly take control of their OH's daily life and change it. Involving alot of compromise in a previously very independant life. I know of at least one retired couple where the wife couldn't stand it and left her hubby of 30 odd years and went home, for good.

The language thing is extremely important.
you will probably end up mixing in an ex-pat community, but being able to take care of your own daily business is really important.
I speak decent enough french and don't have the "problems" with the locals that the non french speaking ex pats all seem to complain about.

It sounds like you are planning it well. Good luck!


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## Caveat (13 Jun 2009)

Hope it went well Mommah.

Ex-pats.  No thanks. I'll be doing all my best to avoid that community TBH.

Can I ask how long you were there Mommah?  More details on pros/cons?


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## z109 (13 Jun 2009)

State pension is at 65.

Your options to take money out of your PRSAs at 55 are probably limited, but I presume you will be looking at an ARF or an AMRF - LDFerguson or GSheehy will be able to give you better advice. You'll need a decent sum in the PRSAs to be able to do this.

Spain has huge housing over-supply, 20% unemployment and many stretched borrowers. The housing bust over there will be painful. The market is not in any way, shape or form flat. It will decline for the forseeable future.


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## Mommah (14 Jun 2009)

Caveat said:


> Ex-pats. No thanks. I'll be doing all my best to avoid that community TBH.


It's harder than you think.
You need to be extremely fluent in a language (slang, phrases etc) to be able to have a good relaxed chat with people.
I've lived in 3 different foreign countries and always ended up with most of my friends being ex-pat.
One reason is the language and the other is that the natives already have their quota of friends and its more difficult to get into their scene. The ex-pats tend to be building social contacts and more open to meeting new people. My two french friends here are both blow-ins from far corners of the country.



Caveat said:


> Can I ask how long you were there Mommah? More details on pros/cons?


I've only been here a year in total. Because that was the plan...a sabbatical. My OH is in the construction game and we felt it was a good time to do it. We rented out our house and rented one here in france for much less.

Pros for me:
The weather, winter and summer the weather is fab.
The weather enables a very outdoor lifestyle.
Therefore we are all much more active.
The french school system is simply fantastic, we have 2 kids in the village school.
Both my hubby and my son have developed a 6-pack since we arrived.
The social values here are very much around community and family.
There is 2 hour lunchs in the middle of the day.
All the workmen are in the restuarants chatting and laughing.
We have more time to be a family, we have got to know each other better.
Life is pretty simple, everyone has a veg patch, a few cows on the mountain, some goats, makes cheese...etc
Cost of living is lower than ireland, so if you are living on a fixed income...it will go further.

Cons.
Family and community are very tight knit and difficult to break into...therefore you rely on ex-pats for social life.
Being together 24/7 can be challenging.
Huge rate of marriage breakdown in this region....? reasons.
High rate of male suicide.
Difficult to make a living, most of the ex-pats are very entrepreneurial...involved in a bit of this and a bit of that....but most would be considered not well off by irish standards. Drive bangers etc.
Difficult to reach the level of language proficiency to really fit-in.
This is a touristy region and locals can be a bit wary of foreigners.
Locals around here not really that friendly. Even french from other regions say this.
Night life practically non existant.
My in-laws couldn't get over how quiet the town is in the even. All the action is at lunch-time.


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## Caveat (14 Jun 2009)

Thanks for that Mommah.


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## Stronge (11 Jul 2009)

eyeonspain.com is a good forum about relocating to Spain  mostly English and Irish people on the site.  You get lots of interesting bits of information about buying etc.


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## Lex Foutish (12 Jul 2009)

Mommah, I don't think I'd agree with you 100% about being fluent to have a relaxed chat with the locals. Maybe in France but not in Spain, I think. Like Caveat, I have reasonably ok Spanish and when I visit Spain, (and go off the beaten track, as I am wont to do), I find the locals want to talk to you in a relaxed and helpful manner and try to polish up your command of the language. 

Excellent post on pro's and con's. Well done.


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