# Saturn Investments Europe plc



## Centaur (3 Jul 2009)

I have a substantial investment in the 2005 series of these 6.25% bonds.  I've just been informed by my stockbroker that they are now worth 3 cent in the euro as a result of action by Morgan Stanley.  There was Eur 35m in this issue.  I would be very keen to contact other bondholders.


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## abbott (6 Jul 2009)

I have received the same communication from stockbroker.  Eager to discuss with other bondholders.  There appears to be little information (at least online) published about this.


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## Julie (14 Jul 2009)

I also have received simular letter from my stockbroker (Dublin),also eager to discuss with others.


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## insider (15 Jul 2009)

Hello all I'm a new user of this site.

I have previously worked at all levels of the financial services industry in Ireland. I have been galled by the systematically poor level of investment advice which has been dispensed in Ireland. There is a huge amount of anecdotal evidence of incompetence, misselling and outright fraud with relation to investment advice.

I have observed this level of incompetence and abundance of poorly qualified investment personnel first hand.

It has been prevalent by staff within all of the major retail institutions in the country and many private investment advice companies. This is pretty much driven by the commission based business models many of the assurance companies, banks and financial advisors work from.

If you feel you have being given incorrect, fraudulent or negligent advice I am happy to take questions and give impartial advice as to whether you have a strong case with the ombudsman regarding a complaint.

I am not looking for any fee of any kind just to help those who have been clearly badly served. please see my thread


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## Statto (22 Jul 2009)

I also have a large investment in this Bond and received a similar notification and would be very interested in talking to other Investors.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2009)

Kathleen Barrington discusses this investment in yesterday's [broken link removed]and [broken link removed]

Some Credit Unions have got refunds through the Ombudsman because the bond did not meet the criteria for Credit Union investments.

She also reports on the Askaboutmoney discussions.

Can anyone enlighten us as to what this bond actually did? Was it a geared bond? In what did it invest? 

Did Bloxhams manufacture the bond? There is nothing about it on their [broken link removed].

Brendan


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## Stargazer (26 Oct 2009)

Should private investors approach the Ombudsman? Would different criteria be applied to them?


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## Brendan Burgess (26 Oct 2009)

An individual can invest in any product.

A Credit Union is restricted to investing in certain types of products. 

So an individual could not claim on this basis.

I know nothing about these bonds. What is the problem? Why do people think that they have a case? 

If you think you have a case, take it up with the seller of the bond or the issuer. If they reject your complaint, then you can go to the Ombudsman.


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## Stargazer (27 Oct 2009)

In January 2005 I was looking for a successor to a bond that hat just matured, it had paid 7.75% p.a. I asked my broker to advise a suitable replacement. Three possibilities were put forward, the most attractive was a Dresdner Bank 6.255 bond maturing in 2031.I was told that there would be no capital loss on its redemption in 2031.
When the Contract Note for the purchase of the Dresdner Bond arrived it was described on the Note as SATURNS INV EUROPE. I was told that this had been done "for administrative reasons". 
The interest duly arrived in January of 06, 07, 08 and 09. Then, out of the blue, in June 09, we (two of my daughters had also purchased the same bond) got letters from the broker saying that there had been early redemption and that we would only get a return of 3 cent in the euro. 
The broker told me on the phone that the institution that had actually issued the bond was at fault and that the matter was being taken up with the institution.
I wrote to the broker to the effect that we were looking for a return of our capital and any outstanding interest. I asked for details of the arrangement whereby the Dresdner bond had been changed to SATURNS.
I got a 71 page document dated 31/01/2005 together with an assurance that progress was being made in the discussion with the financial institution.

I have come to the conclusion that the broker was remiss and if I do not get satisfaction there that I should go to the Financial Ombudsman.

I would be interested in making contact with other investors in a similar position.


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## Centaur (9 Nov 2009)

There now seems to be 8 investors that have come forward.  Is it worth trying to arrange a meeting or what?  

I know some people are outside Ireland but perhaps they could send a representative to a meeting (in Dublin, I suppose)?  

What do you think?


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Nov 2009)

I spoke to Robert Moynihan who took the case on Saturn to the Ombudsman on behalf of Abbeyleix Credit Union. (He also won the Enfield Credit Union case against Davys). I know Robert as he was on the Industry Panel of the Financial Regulator when I chaired the Consumer Panel. He is already handling one other case on behalf of a private investor. 

He is prepared to represent investors for a fee. But he does not charge for the first meeting. I would suggest that a few of you organise a group  meeting with Robert and discuss how to progress this.

Robert can be contacted on 086 384 2495 or robertmoynihan@eircom.net


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## abbott (6 Dec 2009)

All interested parties should closely watch the developments in the following court case.  Bloxham is being sued for alleged mis-selling of the Saturn instrument to the Solicitors Mutual Legal Defence Fund:

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news...tor-fund-sues-bloxham-over-84m-alleged-bond-/


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Dec 2009)

More information from [broken link removed]

Obviously, every case has to be judged on its merits, but if the Solicitors Mutual Defence Fund "were unaware that therew wasa call optionexecisable by Morgan Stanley, which compromised the intergity of the bond", I would have thought that retail investors would have a good case. 

Brendan


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## abbott (9 Feb 2010)

Snapshot of current (February 9th 2010) actions initiated against Bloxham over the Saturns instruments in High Court, Commercial Court.

Publicly available information at www.courts.ie . Year and case number in bold.

*2009 10863* SOLICITORS MUTUAL DEFENCE FUND LIMITED -V- COSTIGAN P/A BLOXHAM & ORS

*2009 11028* LK SHIELDS SOLICITORS -V- COSTIGAN P/A BLOXHAM & ORS

*2010 559* GREYSTONES AND DISTRICT CREDIT UNION -V- MCDONNELL [PRACTISING UNDER STYLE OF  BLOXHAM] & ORS

*2010 840* P ELLISON & ANOR -V- BARRETT P/A BLOXHAM & ORS


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Feb 2010)

In the [broken link removed], the Judge admitted another case to the Commercial Court. 



> They claim Bloxham’s wrote to them in early 2005 suggesting a number of options for reinvesting maturing funds and that a Dresdner bond was sold to them “as a low-risk product with no identified possibility of capital loss”.



And they subsequently lost 97% of their investment.


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## abbott (21 Apr 2010)

*Morgan Stanley Report $1.4 billion profit in Q1 2010*

Does anybody have insight into the financial robustness of Bloxham to withstand the following scenarios were they to happen:

1. If their pursuit of Morgan Stanley is unsuccessful.
2. If they are ordered to reinstate the 30 Million Euros to investors that they allegedly misinformed.
3.  If the several cases against them in the Commercial Courts are successful.

All 3 happening could see Bloxham in the hole for around 50 million Euros.

Could they sustain that?


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## Monksfield (21 Apr 2010)

*Bloxham credit*

As far as I know,FBD Insurance is a partner in Bloxham and would therefore be jointly & severally liable.This means on the hook for the whole extent of the partnership's liabilities.As an entity with deep pockets,this could be very good news for anyone who gets a judgment against Bloxham.Bear in mind that Morgan Stanley is also in the picture here and may be forced to cough up. - I am not certain that they have been joined in any of the existing cases but safe to assume that they will be enjoined by Bloxham.


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## Complainer (23 Apr 2010)

Monksfield said:


> As far as I know,FBD Insurance is a partner in Bloxham and would therefore be jointly & severally liable.


AFAIK, FBD is a shareholder in Bloxham, not a partner, and therefore would NOT be liable.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Apr 2010)

Monksfield

Good spot.

It is actually a partnership but FBD describes itself as a "limited partner" which presumably means that it has limited its liability in some way? 

[broken link removed]

Brendan


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## OakesP (25 Apr 2010)

I would caution, without mentioning any names of any persons, for people to tread carefully without first checking to see whether their proposed consultant to represent them on investment losses is: (i) a chartered accountant in practice; (ii) a practising solicitor; or (iii) a person regulated by the Financial Regulator to give investment advice.  If they do not meet any of the foregoing then proceed with great caution.  Even if they are not one of the above and you are happy to use the consultant check that he/she/it have/has appropriate professional indemnity insurance.  There are a number of people out there operating in this space that don't meet any of these requirements.  As to why the Law Society, CARB and indeed the Financial Regulator have not move to 'enquire formally' of these type of people/companies is beyond me and I know a few lawyers who are planning to challenge the bona fides of some of these people/entities.    Also read the Davy v Enfield Credit Union case (search the terms in courts.ie).

Caveat Emptor springs to mind re your choice of consultant regardless of their professional standing.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jul 2010)

[broken link removed]

from today's Irish Times



> A RETIRED solicitor and his wife have settled their Commercial Court  action against various partners in Bloxham Stockbrokers over allegedly  negligent advice to invest in a bond which later fell by more than 97  per cent in value.
> The action by Maurice Curran, a former chairman  of the Solicitors Mutual Defence Fund (SMDF), is among 10 sets of  proceedings brought over the same bond in which Bloxham is facing claims  amounting to some €10 million.
> ...
> 
> Yesterday,  Mr Justice Peter Kelly was told by Declan McGrath, for Bloxham, and  Bernard Dunleavy, for the Currans, the couple’s action had settled and  could be struck out with no order except one vacating costs orders made  to date.The Curran case was listed for hearing on February 1st  next along with two of the other actions against Bloxham.


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## Centaur (17 Feb 2012)

*...the end of the matter...*

I started this thread so just to let you know how it finished up.  Having got no satisfaction from Bloxham, I eventually took the case to the Financial Ombudsman.  Bloxham appealed the Ombudsman's finding against them but eventually settled just before the High Court hearing.  I must say the people I dealt with at the FO's were excellent.

I understand the case taken by Bloxham is ongoing in London.


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## abbott (1 Jun 2012)

*On 12th April 2010 - foresaw Bloxham demise*

Given my experience of how Bloxham was run, the news this week that Bloxham is finished does not shock me at all.  I have sympathy for the "grunts" but not for the upper management.  As an unlimited liability partnership, are they on the hook for the 13 Million Euros owed?  Also what happens to the court-case against Morgan Stanley?  Any insights/speculations?


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## mercman (5 Jun 2012)

abbott said:


> I have sympathy for the "grunts" but not for the upper management.  As an unlimited liability partnership, are they on the hook for the 13 Million Euros owed?



I'd say they are, and it appears the fault of the Management and the Central Bank & Financial Regulator. These entities have been inspecting books in this firm for months and they didn't pick it up. They only got to know as some person sent an e mail in error to them. What a fantastic Financial system we have in this country !!

It also leaves the fact that is doubted if the Irish Stock Exchange will last much longer unless some of the big UK or US firms come in here. But then they just might be able to show the regulator authorities how to actually do the job. Meanwhile they should be ashamed of themselves.


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