# Revenue debt and jobless now. Are there any options for me?



## rubber money

Hello Everyone,

I've read all the posts here about bankruptcy in the UK and Ireland and have learned a lot from those who post. Thanks for the invaluable information. 

As much as I've read I haven't been able to answer the question to my own situation and I can't afford to pay for the advice.

I would be very grateful for any and all advice.

I was self employed for 10 years and stupidly didn't make tax returns. The only employee I had one was my partner. I only ever worked for one company on a contract basis.


Revenue caught up with me and I entered a payment plan and make regular payments for about a year. Then I lost the contract job and have been out of work since. I have no idea how much I owe Revenue in unpaid VAT, USC, Income tax, PRSI etc.

Would this be classed as fraud in relation to ' Revenue debt's which came about by fraud'?

If I was declared Bankrupt, would my Revenue debt's be clear?

I do not owe money to anyone else. 

I do not own a home or any property and lost the home I was renting when I lost the job.

I have no income: I have not approached Social Welfare as I believe I would not be entitled to anything. I am living on handouts from my family.

I have no loans, assets, savings, pensions or job.

At the moment I can't see any way forward. My family told me to read the thread here and see if anything here could improve my situation.

I estimate my Revenue debt's to be in the region of €150,000, a lot of which is penalties and fines but that is just a guess. I have paid approx. 30,000 euro under the payment plan.

For the last year I have been living like a hermit with family as I have no means to support myself or pay my debts. I have no children.

I am terrified of facing Revenue, courts, jail as my mental health would not take the strain.

Can anyone suggest an option that may work for me or am I doomed?

Thanks for reading


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## elcato

You should approach your local health board and explain the situation. They can give you emergency payments as well as offer advice. I doubt they would jail you but do write to them and explain the situation. The best advice is to meet all the problems as they arrive, do not bury your head here.

*Renamed title to reflect the post


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## dereko1969

Firstly - you're not doomed, you owe some money that's all.

Secondly, go into social welfare, explain your situation and start signing on, even if you're not entitled to any money it's important to regularise your situation going forward, they won't give a tuppence about what you owe Revenue.

Thirdly, I'm a little confused, you seem to suggest that you came to an agreement with Revenue but then that they might come after you for fraud? If you lost work and couldn't meet the payments you'd already agreed with Revenue then another payment plan will have to be made, this happens more than you think, you're not the only person this is likely to have happened to. So contact Revenue and explain your current circumstances, you should have a letter setting out the terms of your agreed repayment plan, write to or ring the Inspector who signed this and tell them the story, it's better to contact them sooner rather than later, but if you can't pay you can't pay. It's not fraud if they agreed to a payment plan which you now cannot complete, it's just life.


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## WizardDr

First of all - if you falsified returns and claimed back tax you were not entitled to would be where there would be an issue. 

If your circumstance is that you did not make any return and they then caught up with you then that is a different matter.

Basically if you have paid some money and still owe money then for example they cannot stop you getting a job and cannot deny you tax allowances. 

Like all these things - I think you should meet a good accountant first. Andrew Feighery of CGC in Harolds X is somebody I would recommend - there may be others.


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## rubber money

Thank you everyone for all the replies and for not having a go at me, it very much appreciated.

I never falsified any claims, my crime is I never made any returns. Revenue audited me and set a payment plan which I kept to until I lost the contract.

I couldn't face Revenue knowing I had no means to pay as I am terrified of going to jail.

When I mentioned fraud it was that I am confused if the money I owe Revenue is considered fraud as I didn't make any tax returns. If I was to be declared bankrupt and the taxes would still be owed to Revenue. Is it considered fraud by Revenue as I never declared returns for years ( I hope that reads correctly). 

As I have no means to support myself, the family member who is letting me stay with them is not working and in receipt of a disability allowance type payment, they own their own home. I cannot approach the Department of Social welfare to make a claim as the family member is also in receipt of a household benefits package and would lose this with me living here.

I also don't think I could claim anything as I was self employed and made no returns.

I have never claimed from Social Welfare ever.

Without this family member I would be on the street as I have no where else to go.

Thanks again to everyone, I haven't spoken a word of this to anyone outside my immediate family as I am truly ashamed of where I find myself.


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## munchy

From what I understand your revenue debts are cleared if you declare bankruptcy in the UK but Im not sure about the new Irish insolvency act. If there is fraud however, I understand that they can still prosecute but your debt is still likely cleared. Have you considered the UK bankruptcy route?


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## ClaireM

Do you still have any documents from your deal with Revenue? If you have been found to have committed fraud it should stay it in the documents. Alternatively you could phone or write and ask them.

You can fill out a statement of affairs form for Revenue so they know why you are not keeping to the arrangement. 

If you have no income or assets you should get at least an SWA payment of €186. this is considerably more valuable than the household benefits package and you could contribute to the household.


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## Bronte

So far I don't see any fraud.  Not filling out returns is not fraud, but filling deliberately filling out returns incorrectly or claiming taxes that one is not entitled to would be fraud.  

You seem to be very stress about this, but you don't have any money or assets so you need to talk to revenue to see if they will write this off and if not whether you need to go through the new insolvency system (later this year maybe) to get the revenue debts cleared. 

You also need to sort out an income for yourself.  You are entitled to social welfare and nobody else can do this for you only yourself, there really is no reason for you not sign on.  And when you're getting some kind of payment you can rent somewhere with rent allowance.


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## dereko1969

You won't go to jail for not meeting the Revenue payment plan but your situation will be looked at more favourably if you contact them rather than keeping your head buried in the sand. 

The fact that you came on here shows that you are starting to address the issues, well done, now just pick up the phone or email into Revenue and ask to meet them to address the situation - they're not monsters, they're not going to lock you up, they'll try and find some way of getting a long-term solution.


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## WizardDr

@rubber
I concur with dereko1969

And get advice - I have mentioned an accountant whom I believe will give you
a fair assessment. You can then decide what you are going to do.

You address matters one by one and watch the damn millstone disappear.

There are plenty of options and forget about what you did or didn't do and anyway these days there is no particular shame - so get cracking.


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## Gerry Canning

WizardDr said:


> @rubber
> I concur with dereko1969
> 
> And get advice - I have mentioned an accountant whom I believe will give you
> a fair assessment. You can then decide what you are going to do.
> 
> You address matters one by one and watch the damn millstone disappear.
> 
> There are plenty of options and forget about what you did or didn't do and anyway these days there is no particular shame - so get cracking.


 Could not AGREE MORE.
No doubt you messed up. Did you murder anyone ?? Did you go out of your way to do the Revenue ??
There is NO way I can see jail , believe me, if you were marked for jail ,there would be a large Queue in front of you!! 

AS ABOVE , START SORTING AND YOU CAN THEN START LIVING< YOU ARE NO GOOD TO IRELAND BY STAYING IN A BUNKER !!!and good luck.


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## jksna

Hello, so sorry to hear what you are going through, sadly my husband can relate to you. My husband had a business that the landlord was not good, so he proceeded on to another premises doing the same business both businesses incurred revenue debt, which he was in a payment plan too. Long story short it got too hard to maintain with debt growing so he closed, he is not sure of the full debt as we can not afford a accountant to do the books. The fear he has, not going out living like a hermit, feeling that he committed fraud regarding revenue as in the second premises,family members signed up for the new company. The fear everyday is getting worse, he has sent them a letter last November detailing that he was behind the whole business, but has no word back yet. I had to reply to see how you are getting on now and if you have any further information. This is my first time to send anything on this. Many thanks for reading this. If time could be turned around, he was trying to keep the business going, but that is when you are under pressure.


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## Steve Thatcher

From what I can see there is no fraud here, just an unpaid tax bill, which has now been agreed, part paid and now defaulted.

You asked if it would be written off by bankruptcy in the UK. answer simply YES

Steve Thatcher
Www.helpwithdebtuk.com


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