# Using home as office



## thinkbiz (27 Mar 2010)

I have an online limited company and I'm using my home as my office. I have make other bedroom the workplace. Just wondering if I can pay a part of my rent from my business bank account? Will it be legal and justifiable?

Thanks in advance


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## papervalue (27 Mar 2010)

thinkbiz said:


> I have an online limited company and I'm using my home as my office. I have make other bedroom the workplace. Just wondering if I can pay a part of my rent from my business bank account? Will it be legal and justifiable?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
some on message board might say yes, but personally i would be against it, depend on what you sell online, would their be stock in house,

the things to take into account for future could be cgt on element of house sale if sold in future

any trs issues

their would be deduction against trade but should you would declare it as rental income as owner of property case v which would give rise to tax bill on that element

you want to get revenue permission in writing i feel- because an audit 4 year down the road and revenue auditor disallows it could become 
costly.


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## tenchi-fan (27 Mar 2010)

Agreed. technically, you could. but it just takes a revenue decision and all of a sudden you owe them a lot of money.

It's one thing using a room as an office, but try telling revenue your kitchen is a canteen and you might be in trouble.


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## thinkbiz (27 Mar 2010)

Well, its a rented house with 2 bedroom and I use one bedroom as  my office. Now I pay euro 1200 per month for this apartment as a whole and i'm just wondering that can I pay 400 out of my business, because genuinely I'm using it for business. What do you advice?


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## Paddy199 (29 Mar 2010)

Yes. Do you have any idea what the rent for an office of a similiar size would be else where?

Just return it on your Form 11 as rent €400, interest €400, no taxable profit.

Are you getting a rent credit. Again you should be OK here as you should exceed the threshold. 

Theres no problem here once you can justify the split and that the rent is at market value.

If house owed, advice may be different.


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## mathepac (29 Mar 2010)

All provided of course that - 


 the management company and the landlord have agreed in advance to have the address used as the company's registered offices (if that's the case)
 they have agreed to have commercial activities conducted from within a residential property
 the general public, the management company and other owners / residents / tenants are indemnified against potential loss / damage / hazards caused by commercial activities in a residential property
 that the local authority impose no restrictions based on an application for change of use from residential to commercial
the landlord agrees to have commercial rates levied against the property by the local authority.


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## thinkbiz (29 Mar 2010)

mathepac said:


> All provided of course that -
> 
> 
> the management company and the landlord have agreed in advance to have the address used as the company's registered offices (if that's the case)
> ...



Really?????? And If I don't do all this, will revenue catch my neck sometimes later?


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## jack2009 (29 Mar 2010)

Are you going to declare the rent as an income personally?  I assume yes so therefore is it not a robbing Peter to pay Paul situation?


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## DB74 (29 Mar 2010)

jack2009 said:


> Are you going to declare the rent as an income personally? I assume yes so therefore is it not a robbing Peter to pay Paul situation?


 
He doesn't own the property


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## mathepac (29 Mar 2010)

thinkbiz said:


> ... And If I don't do all this, will revenue catch my neck sometimes later?


I have no idea if Revenue will be interested and I didn't refer to them in my post, but I did list the other people / organisations who have a vested / legal interest in the fact that you're using someone else's residential property for commercial activities. 

I would hope that you asked the landlord's permission before launching your online business from his property, because of the possible consequences for him, such as -



Possible product / service liability claims
Customer or supplier judgments
etc.
registered against his property's address if things go badly for your business.


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## Hans (30 Mar 2010)

Is it possible that he could also be approached for rates by his local council as it is now a comercial property as well.


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## onq (30 Mar 2010)

It would apear the following matters arise.

You may need planning permission for a commercial use.
You may be obliged to pay rates on this commercial use.
Your rental agreement may not allow for this use.
If this is an apartment, it may affect the Fire Cert.
You may need business insurance for your work.

FWIW

ONQ.


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## Paddy199 (30 Mar 2010)

Firstly, thinkbiz never said he was going to use the property as his registered business address. Use your accountants. He may charge a small fee for this.

Secondly, while what you do say may be correct for an operation with stock and customer/suppliers visiting the premises, thinkbiz is conducting everything over the internet. He should be fine.

Revenue will need to see you declare the rent if you want to get a deduction for it.


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## onq (30 Mar 2010)

Paddy199 said:


> Firstly, thinkbiz never said he was going to use the property as his registered business address. Use your accountants. He may charge a small fee for this.
> 
> Secondly, while what you do say may be correct for an operation with stock and customer/suppliers visiting the premises, thinkbiz is conducting everything over the internet. He should be fine.
> 
> Revenue will need to see you declare the rent if you want to get a deduction for it.



I take your points but note the following;

---------------------------------------

Firstly, I didn't say he was going to do this - I took it that he implied he already was using it and I advised accordingly. 

The use of an accountant's office as a registered business address is a new one to me as normally I see solicitor's offices being used for such purposes.

I'm not sure how this goes down with the revenue or in terms of business credibility, so I didn't suggest this. Also I didn't assume that the OP had an accountant or solicitor.

---------------------------------------

Secondly, my understanding is that what I posted applies to every commercial use not supported by a primary place of doing business.

For example, teleworking during out of office hours or on occassional days from your home may not require a use, because there is a separate main firm that employs you with business address. 

My understanding is that running a commercial enterprise - including an office or adiministrative function - that is solely based in a home requries permission for the area so used and rates are payable accordingly. 

This may apply wether or not the home is the registered business address for the business per comment passed above. I know this because I run an architect's practice from my home and had to obtain a permission AND pay rates 

---------------------------------------

Running everything over the internet may alow the OP to consider where he want to take his profit worldwide, but if its here, I understand that above rules and regulations apply.

I am by no means an expert on how this may apply to other forms of business, just to my own and I am happy to be corrected or enlightened with with regard to either.

However I went through this process in 2002 and there is no correlation between the several arms of government - planners, rates office, collector general.

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon     as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be     taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in     Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at     hand.


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## mathepac (30 Mar 2010)

Paddy199 said:


> Firstly, thinkbiz never said he was going to use the property as his registered business address...


He never said one way or the other, which is why I originally said -


mathepac said:


> the management company and the landlord have agreed in advance to have the address used as the company's registered offices *(if that's the case)*





Paddy199 said:


> ...  Secondly, while what you do say may be correct for an operation with stock and customer/suppliers visiting the premises, thinkbiz is conducting everything over the internet ...


OP hasn't specifically said  what he is doing other than running a business from someone else's property, apparently without permission, so everything I've posted is still valid, unless you have additional information not posted here.


Paddy199 said:


> ... He should be fine...


I don't know what that means. Is it "fine" because no-one knows what he is doing in someone else's property, or "fine" because no-one will object when they find out?


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## thinkbiz (1 Apr 2010)

Ok. Here is the whole story

I have an online business. I have an office as well (Other than my apartment ofcourse). However my apartment is my company's registered address and I also use my apartment as my office sometimes ( the other bed-room).

First, Do I need to check with my landlord to have my apartment as my  company's registered address even though it is not my business address. 

Second, what are the consequences if I do not ask anything from my landlord and continue to use the apartment as my company's registered address as well as pay 1/3 of the rent by my business bank account. 

Please advise. And thanks a million


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## jack2009 (1 Apr 2010)

DB74 said:


> He doesn't own the property


 
I know but he is effectively sub letting part of the property to his business.


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## onq (4 Apr 2010)

thinkbiz said:


> Ok. Here is the whole story
> 
> I have an online business. I have an office as well (Other than my apartment ofcourse). However my apartment is my company's registered address and I also use my apartment as my office sometimes ( the other bed-room).
> 
> ...



====================================

You may get away with what you're doing if you have a primary office that you pay rates on.

But, trying to write off monies on a place; -


which you use only occasionally
where you have no planning permission
where you have no permission from the landlord
on which you don't pay rates
I think you'd be pushing your luck.

My understanding is that its eitherA) occasional home use - you don't need permission and you don't pay rates

or

B) full fledged commercial - you do need permission and you do pay rates​One or the other.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon     as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be     taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in     Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at     hand.


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