# Vodafone / Verizon Sale



## Bedlam

Hi 

I hold vodafone shares and am wondering as a result of the above transaction how much I could expect to receive per share when the cash is distributed to shareholders once the sale is completed

Thanks

Bedlam


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## mercman

The answers to this remains unknown. Shareholders will have to await until Vodafone decide to advise shareholders of the amount of dividend and date of payment. Nothing has been learned as yet.


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## runner

The media suggests its around 1 euro per share.


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## PMU

You can find all about the Verizon Wireless deal on the Vodafone web site at [broken link removed]

  The  return to each shareholder is estimated at 112p GBP per share (depending on the price of the Verizon shares and the GBP/USD exchange rate when the deal is done).


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## Eithneangela

So that means that those meaningless bits of paper that I keep getting since I got Eircom shares and didn't sell them at the time, might actually be worth more than the paper!


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## PMU

Vodafone should be posting out details  next week of its intended sale of Verizon Wireless to shareholders, but if you can’t wait for the documentation you can download it now from Vodafone’s web site: [broken link removed]*.  *Note section 2 Irish Taxation for the tax consequences for residents of Ireland.

  There is also a guide to what will happen at:[broken link removed]


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## Tom G

*vodafone Shares*

I  haven’t got my documents yet but from the doc on your link it looks like we are going to get EUR 1.23  Per Vodafone share that we hold ; that is if I am reading  the Faq correctly.  At today’s currency rate  we would get .88 eur+.35  eur =1.23. { in stg (£ 0.75+.£ 0.30) }      

We  sign 2 documents 1: Form of election  2: Selling document for the verison. ??. The other docs are if you are attending the meeting ??


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## Tom G

*income tax or Capital Gain*

There is mention of an option to claim it as income tax . Does the Irish tax system allow us to claim the money as income. Useful for retired share holders .  or has it to be capital gain ?


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## octopus

Stupid question but do I need to fill out the second form to receive the dividend?
 If I agree to sell the Verizon entitlement, what does that mean?

 Thanks for any help, I don't know much about shares hence the reason I have these in the first place.


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## WizardDr

Is one better off taking the Capital or Income payment?


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## sole

I have been attempting to understand the documentation but am having difficulties. I have only about 200 shares so I expect there is no capital gains. Also I cannot make out the value. It seems Vodofone shares are today about £2.20. But  is it just £1.05 that we are going to end up with or will I still have some Vodofone shares.
Any help will be appreciated.


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## Dermot

As I understand it you retain the same amount of shares but they will be priced lower on the stock market after this payout has taken place


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## frankmac

WizardDr said:


> Is one better off taking the Capital or Income payment?


 
 If its your only CG for the year then that would be the way to go, as the gain would be less than your €1270 exemption. I think.


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## Tom G

*vodafone Shares end game.*

Solo .Having 200 shares at todays value of £2.30, gives you a total value of £460. 
By 2nd week of March 14 you will have received a cheque of £60+£150=£210. £60 is a return of cash from Vodafone & £150 is if you agree to sell your new Verison shares. In my own case I will be agreeing to let them sell them for me, as its not worth holding a small number of shares that are quoted in the American stock exchange. 
You still have 200 vodafone shares,but the market will now value them at something like £1.25 per share. That's a total value of £250..  Well you didn't have much choice but effectively you have liquidated £210 of your of your original £460.


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## Tom G

*sell Verison*

Octopus .I thing above should answer your question.


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## sole

*Sell Shares*



Tom G said:


> Octopus .I thing above should answer your question.


Thanks. That sure simplifies it for me.
sole


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## Tom G

*Friday tipps on vodafone pasted below.*

Private investors in Vodafone have been receiving a circular regarding the outfit’s sale of its take in Verizon Wireless in their mailboxes. As a part of the same, come February 24th they will become shareholders in a New York Stock Exchange-listed firm of which they may know very little. A number of Vodafone’s institutional shareholders preferred to retain their presence in Verizon as they think it has good prospects. The Times’ Tempus, however, sees otherwise. In fact, he cannot understand why UK retail investors would want to keep their Verizon shares. Hence, his advice is to make use of the free share dealing facility which has been put in place and sell them. Vodafone stock, on the other hand, is a different matter. “Having advanced by 20p since the deal was announced they are still worth holding,” Tempus said.


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## Grizzly

My son bought Eircom shares when they were first brought to the market and subsequently they became Vodafone shares. He has a share certificate for these. Is this share certificate the document that he uses if he wants to sell these today on the "open" market rather than wait for the Verizon deal? Something at the back of my mind tells me that the certificates were changed to the paperless online type? Also were there any splits or re-pricing of these shares over the years or does he still hold the original amount of Vodafone shares as per his share certificate/


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## PMU

Grizzly said:


> My son bought Eircom shares when they were first brought to the market and subsequently they became Vodafone shares. He has a share certificate for these. Is this share certificate the document that he uses if he wants to sell these today on the "open" market rather than wait for the Verizon deal? Something at the back of my mind tells me that the certificates were changed to the paperless online type? Also were there any splits or re-pricing of these shares over the years or does he still hold the original amount of Vodafone shares as per his share certificate/


  Your son would have received a share cert for his Eircom shares on flotation on 14 July 1999. If he held onto the shares he would have received a certificate for the bonus shares on 17 July 2000. In 2001 Eircom sold Eircell to Vodafone via  a share for share transaction and your son would have received a Vodafone share certificate on 29 May 2001.  Vodafone subsequently reorganized its capital structure and your son would have received a new share certificate on 31 July 2006.  This is the certificate your son needs to sell his shares. The number of shares on this certificate should equal the number of shares on the Vodafone Form of Election: Return of Value 2014 form sent out just before Christmas by Vodafone.


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## Grizzly

Thanks PMU for that. Very helpful. Incidentally if he got Vodafone shares for the Eircell sale does he still hold any original Eircom shares or what happened to this portion of his original Eircom purchase. From memory he got some sort of cash payment along the way?


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## PMU

Grizzly said:


> Thanks PMU for that. Very helpful. Incidentally if he got Vodafone shares for the Eircell sale does he still hold any original Eircom shares or what happened to this portion of his original Eircom purchase.



 He holds no Eircom shares.  While this is open to correction, it is my understanding that in 2001 Eircom swapped some of its shares (i.e. its shareholders’ shares) for Eircel shares and then swapped these Eircel shares for Vodafone shares.  So your son ended up with both Eircom and Vodafone shares.  In November 2001 Valentia bought Eircom at EUR 1.335 per Eircom share; your son would have received a cash payment for his remaining Eircom shares at that stage, and your son, and the other original Eircom investors, would thereafter hold no Eircom shares.  



Grizzly said:


> TFrom memory he got some sort of cash payment along the  way?


 He also would have received a cash payment in August 2006 of 0.15 GBP per share from Vodafone following the reorganizing of its capital structure.


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## Grizzly

Thanks PMU that information is really helpful. One last question if I may. Under the proposed new Verizon deal I understand there will be a cash payment, some Vodafone shares and some Verizon shares. At this stage my son wants rid of the lot.  If I go in to the market place next week I can sell his Vodafone shares on the open market for circa £2.30 and forget about the Verizon deal. However he will have dealing charges. Do you know if there will be a facility to offload the lot for free when the proposed merger/takeover takes place?


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## Lauren

My mother has passed over the Vodafone/Verizon documentation for me to interpret (blind leading the blind a bit!).
She and my dad (both OAP's) have a small number of shares in Vodafone. It seems to make sense to me that they maintain those shares but agree to sell the Verizon ones. I'm looking through the forms to be filled in and have a few questions:

On the General Meeting Form of Proxy they are asked to authorise the company to purchase its own shares? If they vote for this what does it mean?

On the Return of Value form there is an option to receive a capital payment rather than an income payment. Their default option is an income option. What would changing this to a capital payment mean? Any implications for them as OAPs?

Thank you in advance to whoever might have the time to reply. Happy New Year.


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## soy

Seems like the best thing to do is cash out completely at this stage. For most small Irish shareholders there seems little point holding onto the verizon shares, and I would apply the same logic to the consolidated vodafone shares. Too much hassle to hold such a small amount of shares.


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## Hen

Am I correct in thinking that if you have no other Capital Gains in 2014 it would be best to select the capital payment even if you hold a large number of shares?


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## NouveauxPoor

Hen said:


> Am I correct in thinking that if you have no other Capital Gains in 2014 it would be best to select the capital payment even if you hold a large number of shares?



I was thinking that too. It says on revenue.ie that "The first €1,270 of an individual's annual gains is exempt. The balance is chargeable at 30%."


So, if you have only a small number of shares or are in the top income tax bracket surely you are better off taking the capital income option??


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## Lauren

What is the difference between a capital payment and an income payment? I'm still trying to work that out.


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## phoenix

What happens if you don't return any of the forms.  Struggling to understand the documentation.  Thanks


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## Eithneangela

+1. Only got the remainder of shares from the Eircom debacle, don't understand the documentation from Vodafone re the options. So, if I don't respond by the date indicated, am I penalised in any way?


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## CianMcB

*Vodafone/Verizon*

I have 1,550 shares in Vodafone which represent shares I got from my original investment in Eircom at the time of the initial Public Flotation, together with additional shares acquired under Vodafone's Dividend Reinvestment Plan. My understanding is that I have an option to treat the current distribution as an income or a capital distribution. I pay income tax at the high rate (41%)
Accordingly am I correct to opt to take the payment as capital, my understanding is I should have no Capital Gains Tax to pay as the total value of the remaining shares and any monies now received will still be less than the original investment.
But if I take the payment as income, I could be liable to income tax and USC on the monies received. does this sound like a correct assessment of the situation? The documentation from Vodafone doesn't deal with the taxation implications of the proposed payment. Any guidance would be appreciated.


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## Monksfield

For most if not all of those who have small holdings going back to the flotation it has to be better to take the distribution as capital. €1270 per individual CGT exemption (by two for a couple) closes the matter even were CGT rate not lower than the marginal income tax for most people.

Even for those with no income tax liability if the CGT liability is within their exemption they still pay nothing. The situation could be different for people with other capital gains in the year  but most of these are likely to be carrying other losses forward so will still be quids in under CGT treatment.


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## Kimmagegirl

Incidentally for those who purchased the max amount of shares allowable on the flotation of Eircom and with the bits sold off and payments received over the years and if we were to sell our remaining shares today in the open market would we be making a loss or would we be making a gain on our original investment?


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## monagt

and if taking shares in lieu of dividends (at diff share prices and diff exchange rates ove the entire period) ... a nice little complex spreadsheet in required


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## PMU

Kimmagegirl said:


> Incidentally for those who purchased the max amount of shares allowable on the flotation of Eircom and with the bits sold off and payments received over the years and if we were to sell our remaining shares today in the open market would we be making a loss or would we be making a gain on our original investment?


  You have a loss.
  From what I can see, and leaving dividends aside, for every 1,000 IEP of Eircom shares you bought on flotation, you would have been allocated 325 shares at a flotation price of 3.07 IEP per share.  If you held the shares you were then allocated an additional 13 bonus shares. So you now had 338 shares for your initial investment of 1,000 IEP, i.e. for 1,270 EUR.  
  Following the sale of Eircell in 2001 you would have received 160 Vodafone shares and in Nov 2001 your Eircom shares were bought by Valentia for 1.335 EUR a share, so you would have received 451.23 EUR.  
  Vodafone reorganized its capital structure on 11 August 2006 and you would have received a return of capital of 36.27 EUR (i.e. 0.15 GBP per share at an exchange rate of EUR1:GBP 0.682361) and a new share certificate for 144 Vodafone shares.
  If you sold these shares on 31 December last at the closing price of 2.37 GBP per share (and an exchange rate of 0.83370) you would have received about 409 EUR.  In reality it would be less than this as you would have dealing costs and tax to pay.  

So this should give you an idea of the loss you have for every 1,000 IEP invested.
  [The above is to give  some idea from my records of the transactions that took place following the floatation of Eircom.  It is provided for informational purposes only. If other posters have better information please correct it.  Note - This is *not *advice on the tax treatment of the Vodafone shares for CGT purposes.   Revenue issued a tax briefing (no 46) on this, which should be followed for tax purposes and not the above.]


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## Billo

I do'nt want to hijack this thread, but I sold all my shares in Vodafone in late 1999(including shares in my wife's name and children's names). They continued to send me dividend shares and despite numerous e mails asking them to stop and explaining the situation they continue to send me correspondence and dividends. This is now going to a previous address as I have moved on.
The shares in Vodafone arose from Eircom,Eircell etc.

Their latest response is :

"Thank you for your recent communication, which was received on 30 December 2013.

As you are not the registered holder of the shares held under the Shareholder Reference Number provided in your letter dated 23 December 2013, we are unable to disclose any information to you.

Data Protection
Our policy of customer confidentiality is in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. This means that we are unable to disclose any information or act upon an instruction relating to a holding, without the written consent of the holder or, their legally appointed representative.

Regards



Internet Response Team "

How should I get them to stop sending dividends and correspondence without going to the expense of legal representative ?


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## 10amwalker

*Verizon shares*

Hi,

My husband and I each have 137 vodafone shares ( Eircom days) and are tending towards accepting the 4 verizon shares which will be allocated to each of us. Could someone tell us the pros and cons for keeping the verizon shares.
We do not have a share portfolio however like monitoring the share activity.

Thanks


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## Odea

10amwalker said:


> Hi,
> 
> tending towards accepting the 4 verizon shares which will be allocated to each of us.



Why would anyone want to hold 4 shares?


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## monagt

I would take the free deal to off load and avoid the costs later over 8 shares


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## 10amwalker

Dah !!!

That makes sense !!!
Thanks


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## triona

Hi,

Thanks in advance. This thread has really simplified things for a novice (as you can probably guess from the following question!)

How is the capital gains tax calculated? Is it based on the amount invested initially (in my case when I bought Eircom shares)? Then is the exemption the allowable amount of capital gain made in 2014? 

Triona


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## phoenix

phoenix said:


> What happens if you don't return any of the forms.  Struggling to understand the documentation.  Thanks



The above appears to have got lost in the thread and I was wondering if anyone knew the answer.  Thanks. P


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## Protocol

See page 10, Q22.

Your answer is there.


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## seantheman

phoenix said:


> What happens if you don't return any of the forms. Struggling to understand the documentation. Thanks


 


phoenix said:


> The above appears to have got lost in the thread and I was wondering if anyone knew the answer. Thanks. P


 
On the white 'Form of Election:Return of Value 2014. it states,

If you have a bank mandate and email address on file with Computershare (as indicated in Box A above) and you wish to recieve "Your Default" consideration (indicated in the shaded area below) you should not complete or return this form.

If you don't have bank mandate and you don't submit one prior to cut off date,all money due will be paid by cheque in your default currency.


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## phoenix

Thanks.


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## cork

I am finding all this confusing.

I don't want the Verizon shares. (I won't be having more share dealings this year).

Do people have the choice then to keep or sell their existing vodafone shares?


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## Protocol

You can't refuse to accept the Verizon shares.


But you can choose to sell them straight away.

A dealing form to sell the Verizon shares is included in the pack.

You can elect to sell the Verizon shares by ticking the box, signing and returning this form.


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## Protocol

cork said:


> Do people have the choice then to keep or sell their existing vodafone shares?



This deal does not involve the buying or selling of the Vodafone shares.


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## valparaiso

*Vodafone on its own*

My wife holds 175 Vodafone shares.
If she sells them now does she lose out in financial terms on the verizon deal ?


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## cork

what does the the B Shares option mean?


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## tml

found the info I was looking for !


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## Janet

PMU said:


> Your son would have received a share cert for his Eircom shares on flotation on 14 July 1999. If he held onto the shares he would have received a certificate for the bonus shares on 17 July 2000. In 2001 Eircom sold Eircell to Vodafone via  a share for share transaction and your son would have received a Vodafone share certificate on 29 May 2001.  Vodafone subsequently reorganized its capital structure and your son would have received a new share certificate on 31 July 2006.  This is the certificate your son needs to sell his shares. The number of shares on this certificate should equal the number of shares on the Vodafone Form of Election: Return of Value 2014 form sent out just before Christmas by Vodafone.


I did the same - bought the minimum amount of Eircom shares (oh the innocence of me in those days!), ended up getting Eircell and then Vodafone shares. Started getting dividend cheques for silly amounts like 26p, tried to cash them when we switched to euro (or something like that) and most of them were out of date. I was supposed to contact Vodafone and get them re-issued, meant to read all of the stuff on the dividend reinvestment plan so I wouldn't have to deal with it all and since then, well, I basically didn't and all that stuff has been sitting in a box. This is a good incentive for me to try and figure out whether I even actually still have anything - certainly haven't had any post from Vodafone for many years (following at least three moves, although always with post forwarding for at least one year after each move). It was on the agenda for this year but I'm going to pull it forward to deal with it now. Spoke to Vodafone (actually I think it was Computershare I got put through to) just now to find out what information I need to find to give them the best chance of finding me in their system. Just in case anyone is in the same position and/or interested in knowing how that all works out, please let me know and I'll start a thread on it. Or if there is already a similar thread, would love to know about it. Thanks.


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## kbie

Another interesting piece of information I have seen in Section 4 (14) of the 'Guide to Shareholders' relates to the Share Certificates which are held by individual shareholders. 

These are required for selling of shares but after this process is completed, these share certificates can be destroyed. The records will then be held by Computershare. 

This is good news as some of my share certificates were inadvertently recycled amidst all the paper received down the years.


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## Janet

Found my share certificate for Vodafone and if being out of contact with them for ten years or so hasn't changed anything I am the proud owner of 47 shares. 

Just have one slightly off-topic question and am wondering if someone knows the answer. On the share certificate it states that "the above-named is/are Registered Holder(s) of forty seven Ordinary Shares of US$0.10 each, fully paid, in Vodafone Group ... ... " - why is the value given in USD and not GBP? And surely that wasn't the actual share price at the time - from what I can find on google, share price in the first half of 2001 didn't go much above 20 but I thought that was dollars rather than cents.


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## fandango1

Might be a stupid question but here goes.....

Does anyone know if it matters if all the forms go in the pre-paid envelope? I ask because
If not completing preferences for blue & yellow forms online, they can be returned in the pre-paid envelope. The Form of Election & Dealing Form need to be returned to a slightly different address '...Bristol, BS99 6AR' rather than '...Bristol, BS99 6BF'.


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## monagt

> Does anyone know if it matters if all the forms go in the pre-paid envelope? I ask because



Yes, if you decide not to do voting online, I checked with the help line


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## fandango1

monagt said:


> Yes, if you decide not to do voting online, I checked with the help line



Just to clarify, is that a Yes they can all go in the one envelope? 

Thanks


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## monagt

Yes. Ring the help line number provided..........easy to ring and helpful.


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## elcato

Irish times have put a good summary into yesterdays paper. Here it is.


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## Hen

Talking to Computershare today and the girl told me that the capital payment versus the Income Payment was irrelevant as the payment would have no tax deducted. My question is why this issue of tax was raised at all. The only reason I returned the form was to select the Capital Payment option as it was not default.


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## SoylentGreen

Just remember that you will probably have two Vodafone share certificates. One was replaced with the other when there was a consolidation. Check the share certificate against the number of shares that is recorded on the offer document.


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## europhile

Only hearing about this today.  I don't appear to have received anything.  What happens if you do nothing?


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## Janet

Hen said:


> Talking to Computershare today and the girl told me that the capital payment versus the Income Payment was irrelevant as the payment would have no tax deducted. My question is why this issue of tax was raised at all. The only reason I returned the form was to select the Capital Payment option as it was not default.


I'm not sure Comutershare is the best place to get tax advice from. Perhaps she's talking about withholding tax in the US or something. Certainly, the guy I spoke to there last week had no clue about the tax implications and wasn't able for much more than telling me he'd send me the information by post (still no sign of it).

There's another article in the Irish Times today, dealing with the provisional guidance from Revenue on the situation, and these are the last couple of sentences in it:


> While sobering, it does mean no capital gain arises and therefore no liability to capital gains tax.Those choosing to take the windfall as income will, however, face an income tax bill at the highest rate they pay this year.


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## Brendan Burgess

*Vodafone share deal windfall to escape tax*



I haven't been following this story at all, but why is it being described as a "windfall"? 



Why are they "escaping" tax? 



*



			Irish investors to gain €27.5m from sale of US business
		
Click to expand...

*


Maybe, they are getting a gain on some recent valuation?




> But Revenue says that the value “base cost”, or original value of the US  arm of the business is close to €2.18 per Vodafone share. Thus Revenue  estimates that shareholders will be nearly one euro down on each of the  Vodafone shares under the “windfall”.


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## Janet

Brendan Burgess said:


> *Vodafone share deal windfall to escape tax*
> I haven't been following this story at all, but why is it being described as a "windfall"?


Slow news day?  

To be perfectly honest, I've already spent more of my time on trying to sort out my (long-ignored) Vodafone shares than I will get from the "windfall" but still, if I weren't taking my time into account then it'll be 40 or 50 euro's worth of free money for me.  Free money gets people excited and excited people buy more newspapers, I suppose. And there could be one or two people who own substantially more than my 41 shares, who might justifiably feel like they're getting a windfall.


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## Drakon

I suppose it's a windfall because the shareholder are due to get an unexpected gain.


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## Drakon

europhile said:


> Only hearing about this today.  I don't appear to have received anything.  What happens if you do nothing?



http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182033&page=3#42


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## Drakon

Janet said:


> I did the same - bought the minimum amount of Eircom shares (oh the innocence of me in those days!), ended up getting Eircell and then Vodafone shares.


Same here; I chose the share reinvestment option from the get-go and am up to 879 now.


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## Janet

Belton said:


> Same here; I chose the share reinvestment option from the get-go and am up to 879 now.



Wow. Well, now you're just making me jealous. Wish I had actually filled out that piece of paper after all. At the time I had gotten a bit of a kick about receiving a dividend cheque and since it was such a tiny amount I didn't think it was really worth bothering about. Oh well, hindsight and all that. Should never have gotten into it (buying shares I mean) before I was in a place to actually bother looking after the bureaucratic side of things properly. 879 shares is definitely a bit more windfally - maybe it's not entirely unjustified.


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## Ceist Beag

Belton said:


> I suppose it's a windfall because the shareholder are due to get an unexpected gain.


That's the whole point though - it is not a gain! What is happening here would be better described as "Eircom shareholders to crystallize losses on 50% of their holding".


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## rayn

How can people decide on gain or not. Does it not depend on share price post event.


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## harriet

Ok I am really sorry but I like so many others are confused and I am not understanding it all.    I have been in contact with the helpline as again like so many I moved address many years ago and have not received anything in a number of years.   Change of address is all done and they are transferring my unclaimed dividends today and are doing same for my husband.   He was able to have his Share Ref Number confirmed over the phone but they would not give me mine but have given me details of my holding etc...

I know there are 2 forms to be complete by 11.15 on Sunday next 26th January.   Obviously I will not have my pack before then.    

This is my question - If these are not completed and returned by then does that penalize us for tax free option - ie capital 

I know I have been really stupid not keeping things uptodate


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## micamaca

I'm also not sure what to do 
I logged on online to vote. Despite there being two voting forms, I only seem to be required to vote online once. Fair enough...whatever. 

But I'm not sure which option I should opt for when it comes to the sale of Vernizon shares. I don't reside in Ireland anymore, but we do rent our house out and pay tax on the rental income. My husband takes care of the return, but I would imagine we are well below the high income tax bracket. But I will check with him. 

I tried reading the revenue's brief in one of the key posts, but my brain is numb. I don't do so well with figures. Should I opt for income tax option or the capital gains tax option? Do I need to declare something after I do this? 

Thanks in advance for your advices. 
m


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## Janet

harriet said:


> This is my question - If these are not completed and returned by then does that penalize us for tax free option - ie capital



I spoke to them again today as I have not yet received the pack which I requested last Wednesday. I was told that it takes up to ten working days for overseas post and that it was sent on 19th January by airmail (apparently everyone works on Sundays now, who knew).  Anyway I asked her about the deadlines and she said the deadline for choosing what to do (whether to take the special dividend or capital) is 20th February. 

The deadline that is this week is for the vote on whether to go ahead with the transaction, as far as I understood. Given that I have very little opinion on that aspect, not to mention such a miniscule holding that my vote really won't have any impact, I don't think this is particulary important if I miss it. Perhaps someone with more of a clue than me could confirm that.


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## Ceist Beag

The simple guide to anyone who bought these as Eircom shares back in the day is to opt for the Capital Gains option as there are no gains and therefore no tax to pay (you can even use the loss to offset other gains if needed).
Harriet, the forms to be completed by the 26th can be completed online (check out the two links under Online Voting at their [broken link removed]) but even if you don't complete them, it's only to vote on whether you want this event to go ahead or not and to be honest most shareholders here will have such a tiny holding it won't really make a difference.
The important form to complete and return (if you don't want your returns treated as income tax or the other default options on the other questions) is the Form of Election.


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## Janet

Just also found this article in the Irish Times from yesterday, which is a sort of "vodafone shares for dummies" format (or at least, I understood most of it). 
Making the right call with your Vodafone shares
The form of election (choosing whether to take a dividend or capital) is important and due by 20th February and attached to that is, apparently, the other important one, which allows you to choose to sell your Verizon shares immediately (and for free, i.e. no commission or charges if I've understood correctly). That needs to be sent in by 4th April. 

He also notes the following, which is probably not a bad reminder for a lot of us:


> One last thing – use an X, not a tick in filling the boxes. That’s what they ask for and share registrars can be picky about these things. You wouldn’t want to face a tax bill for such a simple error!


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## Bumper22

*Is it too late to choose capital or income ?*

I want to choose the non-default option but fear I am too late. I requested a new pack from Computershare today, it probably won't arrive in time to fill out the online voting forms (deadline is the 26th). My question is, if I miss that deadline, are all subsequent deadlines irrelevant  ?
For instance there is a February 20th deadline to choose between capital or income.


----------



## Protocol

harriet said:


> I know there are 2 forms to be complete by 11.15 on Sunday next 26th January.   Obviously I will not have my pack before then.
> 
> This is my question - If these are not completed and returned by then does that penalize us for tax free option - ie capital



The first two (coloured) forms are for voting for the transaction or not.

If you don't vote, no big deal.

The big shareholders will vote for the deal.

So don't worry about not voting.

Not voting will not exclude you from the return of value.


----------



## Shakespeare

*ESOP Vodafone shares*

Can anyone confirm that there is likely to be a CGT liability on the Vodafone/Verizon payout if some of your Vodafone shares are as a result of the eircom ESOP and thus have a "nil" base cost?


----------



## Legion748

Hi Guys

 Please can you help, I hold Vodafone shares yet have not received my " info " pack, and cannot find anywhere I can ring to follow up why etc, My address is correct on my holdings etc....if I do nothing I assume I will automatically be posted.?...or given the new shares via the stock purchasing company I use.?

 Any help greatly received...

 thanks


----------



## Sue Ellen

Legion748 said:


> cannot find anywhere I can ring to follow up



See here.


----------



## Drakon

Ceist Beag said:


> That's the whole point though - it is not a gain! What is happening here would be better described as "Eircom shareholders to crystallize losses on 50% of their holding".



The Eircom aspect is incidental.  People who are Vodafone shareholders, whether thru' the Eircell sell-off, or through buying Vodafone share, are to receive unexpected money.  The gain or loss aspect really depends on what a shareholder bought the shares for, or what price they were acquired.

Personnally speaking, I have these Vodafone shares as a result of the Eircom privatisastion 15 years ago.  Then when Eircom was refloated ten or twelve years ago, I bought into Eircom again.  Lovely dividend back then, 7%.  And I sold them at a profit.  Gain overall for me.


----------



## IsleOfMan

Some years ago Vodafone wrote to people saying that they were no longer going to post out dividends to people. My son had the initial holding of these shares. I don't believe that he responded to the notification about the dividends. The dividends then stopped coming. Has anyone any idea as to where these ended up?


----------



## harriet

All he has to do is ring 01 6968421 and give them his bank account details and they will transfer whatever dividends he is due


----------



## elcato

> Some years ago Vodafone wrote to people saying that they were no longer going to post out dividends to people.


I believe they gave the option to buy new shares instead. Are you sure this is not what happened and that they sent certs out instead ?


----------



## Greekwife

Ok - so got a letter today from Vodafone addressed to my husband about this Share thing.  He is abroad for work so I opened it.

I didn't even know he had Vodafone shares as apparently his Dad bought the original Eircom ones for him and he still has them and he basically forgot about them.  He doesn't get any dividends (money) though and he says that he thinks that he gets new shares instead ?  Doesn't seem to have any other documentation in relation to this at all.

Anyway he is PAYE and doesn't do a Tax Return as we have no other Income  - so what does this mean now ?

I have read the Irish Times article saying he should opt for the Capital Payment Option in order to pay less (no ?) tax.

So if he does this then does he have to file any sort of Tax Return ?


----------



## p15574

Probably a stupid question, but do you have to put a stamp on the pre-paid envelope, ie is it valid for posting from Ireland? I can't get definitive information online, the Royal Mail website implies that prepaid post for Ireland has to be in a different format, like the usual FREEPOST envelopes you see.


----------



## harriet

Anyone receive their duplicate forms yet?


----------



## Janet

harriet said:


> Anyone receive their duplicate forms yet?



Nope. Was going to ring them today but I forgot to bring my reference number with me. I did get my notice of dividends though and was able to register online. Just waiting for the activation code to arrive and I think then I'll be able to make my elections online and not have to wait for the forms.


----------



## Cagey

p15574 said:


> Probably a stupid question, but do you have to put a stamp on the pre-paid envelope, ie is it valid for posting from Ireland? I can't get definitive information online, the Royal Mail website implies that prepaid post for Ireland has to be in a different format, like the usual FREEPOST envelopes you see.



You don't need a stamp. This is Royal Mail International Business reply Service (hence the by Air mail in top Left). Google "Response Payee Grand Bretagne" for more.


----------



## br1an

Hi all.

First post 

I am completing the 'Form of Election' form and was wondering if selecting the option of payment in sterling would be beneficial? What exchange rate would be used if I select Euro, v's my banks standard rate?

Thanks.


----------



## Janet

Janet said:


> Nope. Was going to ring them today but I forgot to bring my reference number with me. I did get my notice of dividends though and was able to register online. Just waiting for the activation code to arrive and I think then I'll be able to make my elections online and not have to wait for the forms.



Phoned today only to be told that no pack had been sent out to me. I knew the first guy I spoke to wasn't able for the fact that I had more than a simple yes/no type question. However, his colleague from today sounded very competent and has said he has now organised for me to receive a new pack so hope springs yet again. 

Also, just to note, in case I confused anyone by saying I could make my elections online - apparently the online elections were only relating to the voting aspect (which has now passed). For the decision on how to take your payment and whether to directly sell the Verizon shares, you do need to fill out the forms. Sorry, hope I didn't mix anyone else up with that comment.


----------



## Drakon

p15574 said:


> Probably a stupid question, but do you have to put a stamp on the pre-paid envelope, ie is it valid for posting from Ireland? I can't get definitive information online, the Royal Mail website implies that prepaid post for Ireland has to be in a different format, like the usual FREEPOST envelopes you see.



Her local postmaster advised my mother to put a stamp on the letter (90c).


----------



## harriet

Janet we've not received ours either.  Hope they haven't gone to old address as one of the letters I got during the week confirming our change of address went to our old address!!!!   Must ring again


----------



## Drakon

I'd be interested to know if Revenue will investigate how many of the Vodafone shareholders have been paying tax on their dividends over the last decade or so.


----------



## EmzD

I have a question on the white form to be returned.
We mistakenly signed short name on the form "Paddy" instead of "Patrick", which was the full name detailed on the form, will this make our form and election to sell void? Unfortunately only realised this after we posted it back!


----------



## Sue Ellen

EmzD said:


> I have a question on the white form to be returned.
> We mistakenly signed short name on the form "Paddy" instead of "Patrick", which was the full name detailed on the form, will this make our form and election to sell void? Unfortunately only realised this after we posted it back!



Hi,

Welcome to AAM.

Might be best to give them a call at 01-6968421 and clarify with them, perhaps they might accept an e-mail with clarification.


----------



## harriet

Can someone tell me where I can download the forms?    I'm still waiting for them to come by post.  Was told last week they were issued on the 28th Jan but still no sign.


TIA


----------



## Sue Ellen

harriet said:


> Can someone tell me where I can download the forms?    I'm still waiting for them to come by post.  Was told last week they were issued on the 28th Jan but still no sign.
> 
> 
> TIA



As the forms are printed specific to the person its hard to imagine that it will be possible to download them and certainly have not heard anyone mention this option to-date.


----------



## octopus

I'm reading here about people waiting on forms to be posted.
 I received the notification from Vodafone last year and I filled out and sent in the form, electing to sell the Verizon shares.
 Should I have gotten further correspondence or are some people still waiting for the first letter?


----------



## Janet

octopus said:


> I'm reading here about people waiting on forms to be posted.
> I received the notification from Vodafone last year and I filled out and sent in the form, electing to sell the Verizon shares.
> Should I have gotten further correspondence or are some people still waiting for the first letter?


Yes, I'm still waiting for the first letter. I had moved several times over the years and hadn't had any correspondence from them for a long time, as they didn't have my address anymore.


----------



## octopus

Janet said:


> Yes, I'm still waiting for the first letter. I had moved several times over the years and hadn't had any correspondence from them for a long time, as they didn't have my address anymore.


 
Thanks.


----------



## Janet

And it arrived today. The form is actually printed with my address from years ago (four addresses ago, the last one I remembered to update them with until recently) and there was just a sticker with my current address stuck on the window of the envelope. It's just a standard A4 envelope with a white Form of Election: Return of Value 2014, the envelope to return the form in, a terms and conditions booklet, a Vodafone branded "Return of Value to Shareholders, A Guide for Shareholders" and the larger document which is the full, official proposal.


----------



## Male Doon

Just coming in very late on this whole issue...have shares , probably got documents, then threw the documents out not realising the importance of filling in the form in order to benefit from the sale.
Only realised last night, from an article in one of the local papers, that the deadline for your preferred option is 20th this month.
So rang this am, they are going to send out duplicates, but touch and go whether I can return them before the deadline (one o'clock next Thursday).

I'd need to have the envelope sent by DHL or similar by next Wednesday morning at the very latest, so it looks like I might be too late.
So, the default mechanism then kicks in, I understand. You can then receive payment but lose half of it in tax?
From memory, the article in the paper said that if you did get documents returned in time, that option B. was the best bet in terms of losing out the least.
Anyone any thoughts on that?
I apologise in advance if some of these issues have already been discussed, just thought I'd get the very basic facts just in case I do have to fill out the forms in a hurry!


----------



## seantheman

Janet said:


> And it arrived today. The form is actually printed with my address from years ago


Have you had your dividends reinvested in buying extra shares all these years or had the dividend cheque been going to this old address?


----------



## Janet

seantheman said:


> Have you had your dividends reinvested in buying extra shares all these years or had the dividend cheque been going to this old address?


No, I hadn't signed the dividend reinvestment forms unfortunately. I started a separate thread (Dealing with Vodafone shares after moving several times and no contact for years) in case anyone else had the same issue. They've sent me a dividend cheque for the first couple of years I missed as it's in sterling. The dividends since they switched to issuing them in euro will be transferred to my bank account.


----------



## Male Doon

Panic over! Found the forms at home, sending them off today...phew!


----------



## Protocol

Male Doon said:


> So, the default mechanism then kicks in, I understand. You can then receive payment but lose half of it in tax?
> From memory, the article in the paper said that if you did get documents returned in time, that option B. was the best bet in terms of losing out the least.
> Anyone any thoughts on that?



AFAIK, the actual payment value from Vodafone will be the same in both capital and income options.

The income payment is taxable, but I don't think it's taxed *at source* by Vodafone.

As all former Eircom shareholders are still losing, there is no capital gain.


----------



## europhile

Apologies if this has already been asked.  Is there an email address where shareholders can contact Computershare? I was on hold to them this morning for half an hour and am not in a position to phone again today.  Many thanks.


----------



## Rsa17

I lost my share certificates and all docs re my vodafone shares. Is there an easy way to get them reissued so that I can avail of this offer. 
I assume my address at the time and date of birth etc will help 
Any assistance appreciated


----------



## CarPark

Stupid question:
 What is the address to which we should return the "form of election: Return of value" form? 
 There is a pre-paid envelope that came with the pack, but it doesn't specify if that was for the meeting form proxy documents or the return of value forms.  
 Thanks in advance,


----------



## Olivetti

*Pack not Received*

I am in the same boat as other posters, trying to update address with Computershare.

They told me that they posted out packs on 20 Jan, never received. I rang them again ten days or so ago, and they promised to send out another set. Nothing yet. I reckon if they don't arrive today, I have no chance of getting them back in time.

So my question, how will the Revenue know whether I have elected for capital (which I will if the form arrives in time) or income (which will be the default if it doesn't). If at tax return time I say capital, then are they going to check all the hundreds of thousands of Irish shareholders against the Vodafone records?

Btw the Vodafone handling of this has been, as one of the Sunday papers noted, brutal. Guess they don't care.

Thanks.


----------



## Protocol

Revenue won't know.

They are self-assessment taxes.


----------



## harriet

Olivetti said:


> I am in the same boat as other posters, trying to update address with Computershare.
> 
> They told me that they posted out packs on 20 Jan, never received. I rang them again ten days or so ago, and they promised to send out another set. Nothing yet. I reckon if they don't arrive today, I have no chance of getting them back in time.
> 
> So my question, how will the Revenue know whether I have elected for capital (which I will if the form arrives in time) or income (which will be the default if it doesn't). If at tax return time I say capital, then are they going to check all the hundreds of thousands of Irish shareholders against the Vodafone records?
> 
> Btw the Vodafone handling of this has been, as one of the Sunday papers noted, brutal. Guess they don't care.
> 
> Thanks.



I have been onto them several times now and am in same boat.   They told me they would send them First Class last Tuesday and nothing.   Was told the week before that they had been issued on 28th Jan only to be told last week that they were never posted.    Appalling service.  I don't believe they have been issued at all


----------



## JohnJon

Hi I am in the same boat as other, never got a pack (TBH I may have, Vodafone send that much circulars that it may have been dumped with them). So at this stage I can't select anything. I have about 1200 shares, does anyone know what is the default implications for a small holding like this?


----------



## Dec05

Does anyone know how long it takes for the postal system to deliver a letter from Ireland to the UK ? I cant find an answer on the an post website.
Thanks


----------



## airgead07

Only received one Pre paid envelope, it was for the proxy meeting.

Po box number is BS99 6BF. Form of Election needs to go to BS99 6AR.


----------



## airgead07

If posted tomorrow will it make the deadline on Thursday?


----------



## mct1

I sent mine yesterday afternoon Express Post International - costs €9 (but worth it - serves me right for ignoring this until I saw the Saturday Irish Times article). I post and receive stuff regularly from the UK and it takes 3-7 days normally but can take 10. Send it Express Post today and it should arrive by Thursday 1pm. You don't have to use the envelope they send. The mailing address is on the forms.

 PS. I should say that they estimate 2 working days but won't guarantee it - still your best bet at this stage imo.


----------



## europhile

Mine were posted out on Friday and I was told they would arrive today. But no sign. Guess I wasted Friday trying to get through to Computershare.


----------



## harriet

I've just been on to them once again to be told that 3 packs were issued to me at my current address but I've not received any of them even there is no problem with any of my other post.    Too late now to avail of any options - was just given an address I could sent a letter of complaint to


----------



## Drakon

Olivetti said:


> Btw the Vodafone handling of this has been, as one of the Sunday papers noted, brutal. Guess they don't care.



I've found their handling excellent.


----------



## Drakon

I've just been issued new Vodafone shares as part of the dividend reinvestment scheme.  Will these be included in the bonanza?


----------



## Janet

Article in the Irish Times today with more details of the share consolidation and sale.

So for every Vodafone share I have, I'll receive 0.026th of a share in Verizon. And then in a week or so, the shares I do have in Vodafone will be reconsolidated and for every 11 I hold, I'll receive 6 of the new shares instead.


----------



## Tentman

Janet said:


> Article in the Irish Times today with more details of the share consolidation and sale.
> 
> So for every Vodafone share I have, I'll receive 0.026th of a share in Verizon. And then in a week or so, the shares I do have in Vodafone will be reconsolidated and for every 11 I hold, I'll receive 6 of the new shares instead.



So its a win, win for Vodafone


----------



## harriet

Stupid forms arrived this morning.  Phoned to ask if I could fax completed docs to them and told "I'm afraid that isn't an option" - again just been told to complain.


----------



## harriet

Belton said:


> I've just been issued new Vodafone shares as part of the dividend reinvestment scheme.  Will these be included in the bonanza?



I've found them absolutely appalling


----------



## Mayhem

*Vodafone shares - income option rather than capital*

Hi there,
Unfortunately for the Vodafone share election I chose the default option for receiving the payout as income rather than capital. I now realise that if I selected capital payment instead I would not have any tax liability. Does anyone know how much income tax I will be liable for in Ireland? I only have 280 shares, and currently working in the uk so don't pay tax in Ireland. I have in previous years declared and paid tax on Vodafone dividends, but since leaving Ireland for work I have not made any self assessment returns to the tax office- although dividend payouts have been relatively small. However I have made all property tax payments, so am keen to comply with whatever taxes I need to pay - just don't know what it will end up costing me? Am I able to avail of a tax credit or allowance? Any help or advice is much appreciated! Thanks


----------



## rayn

Can someone please check these figures.
If I held 1100 vodafone shares and sold them prior to split at £s2.40 i would have got *€3200*
After split I get:
Cash €400  (1100*0.365c)
28 verizen shares @ 46$ = €938
600 vodafone shares @£s2.47 = €1800
Total *€3138*
I understand that values are changing all the time but am I doing things correctly?


----------



## Jpg49

I opted for the capital tax option and sent off my forms on 14th February. This morning I received a letter, dated 25th. Feb. to inform me that they had received my form after 1pm on 20th. February and the default options will be applied. In other words the "windfall" will be treated as income for taxation purposes.  I rang Computershare for an explanation and they placed the blame on the Royal Mail and there is nothing they can do. It would appear that 6 days are not sufficient to send a letter to England! Anybody else have a similar problem


----------



## Rah

I sent my forms on 13th February and also received a letter on the 27th (dated 25th) which informed me that I had missed the deadline. 
It is curious that a letter from Computershare could arrive back to me in 2 days while it takes more than 6 working days to send a letter to Computershare. 
I returned my election form in the envelope provided but I am now wondering if this envelope was only to be used for the return of the proxy form and that perhaps this caused an extra delay for it to be forwarded to a different office. Bottom line however is that Computershare surely received the form in time just not in the correct postbox.


----------



## Tom E

Belton said:


> I've found their handling excellent.


 
You are one of the lucky ones.  I have found them to be pretty pathetic.  I think their call centre staff are under severe pressure as the two I have spoken sounded very tense and far from helpful.  I also believe that they were giving out information that may be wrong and should be verified by the Irish Revenue beforehand.


----------



## TravisT

Originally Posted by *Belton* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1374429#post1374429 
_I've just been issued new Vodafone shares as part of the dividend reinvestment scheme.  Will these be included in the bonanza?_

There is no bonanza. How is there a bonanza?


----------



## Janet

Article by Dominic Coyle in today's Irish Times: How to complain over Computershare handling of Vodafone payout

I haven't yet gotten a letter telling me my form wasn't received. I posted it from Germany on 14th February but didn't send it via courier as, given the amounts involved, that would have cost me about as much as I'm due to get back and I've already spent far too much on phone calls to Computershare anyway.


----------



## ClubMan

Rah said:


> I returned my election form in the envelope provided but I am now wondering if this envelope was only to be used for the return of the proxy form and that perhaps this caused an extra delay for it to be forwarded to a different office.


I posted everything back in the one envelope and had no problem.
I think I posted the stuff back around the first week of February.


----------



## ClubMan

rayn said:


> Can someone please check these figures.
> If I held 1100 vodafone shares and sold them prior to split at £s2.40 i would have got *€3200*
> After split I get:
> Cash €400  (1100*0.365c)
> 28 verizen shares @ 46$ = €938
> 600 vodafone shares @£s2.47 = €1800
> Total *€3138*
> I understand that values are changing all the time but am I doing things correctly?


Assuming you sell your Verizon shares you should be getting about €1.24 per original Vodafone share between the return of value and sale proceeds of the Verizon shares. For some reason I only got the former lodged to my bank account so far but my Computershare investor account online seems to show that the Verizon shares have been sold...


----------



## rayn

Thanks Clubman, funny how all media and "experts" called it as a windfall. It seems more of a consolidation, with little if any financial gain.


----------



## ClubMan

rayn said:


> Thanks Clubman, funny how all media and "experts" called it as a windfall. It seems more of a consolidation, with little if any financial gain.


Well Vodafone themselves call it a "return of value" which is accurate. 

[broken link removed]

Anybody else in the same position as me - i.e. c. €0.365 per original Vodafone share paid to bank but no sign of the proceeds of the sale of the Verizon shares which should be another c. €0.875 per original Vodafone share? As far as I can see the latter should also have been paid today but maybe it's at close of business or something...


----------



## emeralds

We got 3 payments to the bank today. €150.58 (twice for two lots of 420 shares) and €3.94 for 11 shares. So marginally less than we should have got? (at 0.365c per share)...


----------



## ClubMan

Sorry - €0.365 was from some recent article (Irish Times?) and based on exchange rates at the time. The actual € pay out may be difference due to change rate fluctuations since then. My actual payout per share was €0.3585. I'm just wondering when the proceeds from the sale of my Verizon share (CDIs) will be lodged as I thought it was today as well...


----------



## airgead07

no correspondence received to date on this and no payment to bank account.

Check investor centre and there was a consolidation transaction on 24 Feb 2014. Payment Instructions were also updated on 21 Feb, not sure if this indicates my forms were received on time???


----------



## Protocol

The cash element of the Return of Value is paid on 4-Mar.

See press release dated 21-Feb:

[broken link removed]


If you decide to sell the Verizon shares element, that payment comes later.


----------



## Protocol

Also note that even though my divs are bank into a bank account, the proceeds of the sale of the Verizon shares will be issued by cheque.


----------



## Janet

Just had a look at investorcentre and it looks like they did receive my form on time (posted from Germany on 14th February). There is a capital payment (EUR14.70) and a fraction payment (EUR2.65) listed on the document that's shown under "My Documents". Woohoo, I'm rich, I'm rich!

I received 1 whole Verizon share and the fractional bit. My return of value for Vodafone shares was USD20.20. The exchange rate used, if anyone's interested, was EUR1 : USD1.37445. 

The money hasn't hit my bank account yet but I haven't actually received any money to that account yet so I need to check with them if they will actually pay to a German account. I submitted my bank details a few weeks ago - a few days later I received a letter asking for bank details saying that dividend payments in euro could only be paid to an Irish bank as it's some kind of special set-up. However, a day later I received the activation letter for investorcentre and when I logged on it confirmed that my bank details had been amended so I assumed that the letters had crossed or something. Not sure now so will have to contact them again to make sure they will pay to a German account - given SEPA it shouldn't be an issue but since it's the UK and not a eurozone country, perhaps it is.

Edited to add: My return to value money (the 14.70 and the 2.65) is in my German bank account this morning (Wednesday 5th March). I might just treat myself to lunch out today.


----------



## ClubMan

Protocol said:


> Also note that even though my divs are bank into a bank account, the proceeds of the sale of the Verizon shares will be issued by cheque.


OK - thanks. That was my mistake. I assumed that if I elected to get the return of value/share consolidation payment to my bank then the same applied to the proceeds of the Verizon CDI sale. But I read the guide that I linked to earlier again and it does seem to say that the latter payment would be by cheque. So I'll just sit tight and wait for it...


----------



## Janet

Another document has been added to "my documents" on investorcentre today, showing the sale of my lone Verizon share. I assume the cheque (for EUR34.08) will make its way to me. That'll bring my total "windfall" up to just over EUR50. Yay! 

Actually, looking more closely at the document I'm wondering if it was already in the system and I didn't see it. The settlement date given (for the sale of my Verizon share) is 27 February 2014.


----------



## elcato

I don't recall giving them any bank details when I filled these forms in originally. Can someone confirm that in this case I will receicve two cheques, one for consolidation changes and one for sale of the (verizon) shares ? Or would they be capable enough of just waiting for the sale to go throgh and send one out ?


----------



## gipimann

elcato,
Do you receive your vodafone dividend into a bank account?   That's where my consolidation change funds were lodged (yesterday).

The Verizon share sale cheque arrived today.   Like Janet, I think I'll treat myself to lunch


----------



## runner

Got 2 cheques for 13 euro and 0.87c..happy days!


----------



## Janet

elcato said:


> I don't recall giving them any bank details when I filled these forms in originally. Can someone confirm that in this case I will receicve two cheques, one for consolidation changes and one for sale of the (verizon) shares ? Or would they be capable enough of just waiting for the sale to go throgh and send one out ?



You're due one payment from Vodafone (or more likely two, as you'll probably also have a fractional payment, in addition to the capital one) and one payment from Verizon. The Vodafone ones seem to be paid into a bank account if you already have one saved with Computershare. The Verizon one is a cheque payment to everyone. 

Did you keep a copy of the form when you sent it back? One of the items listed was how you would receive payment. If you have a log-in for the Computershare website (which is called investorcentre), you can check it all there.


----------



## niallshox

Computershare look after share-dealing of ordinary shareholders in Vodafone. Vodafone recently carried out a 'Return of Value' to shareholders following the sale of their 45% stake in Verizon USA. Shareholders were asked to elect to receive their 'windfall' as income or capital, where income would be taxable while capital would not (for the vast majority of shareholders). A 'Form of Election' was to be sent to Computershare before Feb 20th 2014. 
I and many others mailed our form well before the deadline to be told by Computershare that they either didn't receive the forms or the forms arrived late. This leaves us liable to an income tax bill (in my case almost €1000). This is crazy as my form was mailed 11 days before the deadline. I wonder if Computershare simply didn't have the manpower to deal with the 380,000 Irish shareholders and took the simple way out of saying that they never received the forms? A collective revolt needs to be coordinated by a financial regulator or by some good business journalist?


----------



## Janet

niallshox said:


> A collective revolt needs to be coordinated by a financial regulator or by some good business journalist?



Not really. All it needs is for all the individuals involved to make complaints. There was an article by Dominic Coyle in the Irish Times the other day outlining exactly how to do that. I posted the link above and also in the other thread specifically about this problem: Vodafone Return of Value forms arrived too late


----------



## niallshox

*Vodafone Computershare disorganisation*

Computershare look after share-dealing of ordinary shareholders in Vodafone. Vodafone recently carried out a 'Return of Value' to shareholders following the sale of their 45% stake in Verizon USA. Shareholders were asked to elect to receive their 'windfall' as income or capital, where income would be taxable while capital would not (for the vast majority of shareholders). A 'Form of Election' was to be sent to Computershare before Feb 20th 2014. I and many others mailed our form well before the deadline to be told by Computershare that they didn't receive the forms (or the forms arrived late for many other people). 

This leaves us liable to an income tax bill (in my case over €800). This is crazy as my form was mailed 11 days before the deadline. 

I wonder if Computershare simply didn't have the manpower to deal with the 380,000 Irish shareholders and took the simple way out of saying that they never received the forms?

I phoned their Dublin number today to be told they still have no record of receiving my 'Form of Election' letter (quoting my SRN : Share Ref Number).

After all that I received approx €600 to my bank account directly yesterday 4/3/14 and approx €1500 by cheque today 5/3/14. Page 26 of the Vodafone 'Return of Value to Shareholders - Guide' states that this is how one would expect to receive his/her payment having taken the 'Income' option. The guide however isn't clear on how payment would be made if the 'Capital' option was chosen.

*Please let me know how one's payment is received if they elected the Capital option?*

I ask this question as the experience I have had with Computershare has been terrible. I'm wondering if the lady I spoke to this morning got it wrong and if there is any chance that maybe I was processed as 'Capital' and not 'Income'?

Sorry if this all is very confusing, but it definitely has me confused.  Thank you.

[Mod Edit: Thread merged with existing thread]


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## Brendan Burgess

Do we really need yet another thread on this issue?

[Mod Edit: Thread merged with existing thread]


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## niallshox

I believe so. I think that this query is new now that people have received their payments and are still unsure if they need to make a declaration to Revenue. If so I believe that Computershare are at fault and not the individual shareholders who followed the procedures offered by Vodafone. Collectively we might have a voice if Computershare have made errors that have cost a lot of people a lot of money.
 Thanks.

Furthermore, nothing on the paperwork from Computershare re either the Vodafone portion or the Verizon portion makes any reference to whether the payment is 'income' or 'capital'. It is all left very loose, and nobody wants to receive a knock on the door from Revenue looking for back-tax and interest and penalties for someone else's mistakes.


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## RedDevil

Arrived today
5 Verizon letters
5 Vodafone letters
10 cheques e.g 1.42
Holding back on Verizon dealing and still
stuck with less valuable Vodafone shares
It is a pain in the ***


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## ajapale

niallshox said:


> *Please let me know how one's payment is received if they elected the Capital option?*



I chose the capital option and chose to dispose of any Verizon shares as soon as possible. I left it very late to inform them of my choice but they recieved the from just before the closing date.

I got three cheques today:

Vodafone Return of Value - Capital Payment: €211.54
Vodafone Fraction Payment: €17.53
Verizon - CDI Sale Advice Note: €511.25

It is fairly clear to be that these are capital payments.


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## niallshox

Thanks ajapale.

 As mentioned earlier, I spoke to a representative of Computershare today and she told me that they haven't received my 'Form of Election' and therefore my payment was processed as 'income' by default (not capital).

 However, at this point I have no faith in anything that comes from Computershare regarding this Voda/Verizon sell-off.

 I also received three payments.

 1. Vodafone Return of Value - *Capital* payment: €634.26 (direct to bank a/c)
2. Vodafone Fraction payment: €17.79 (direct to bank a/c)

3. Verizon - CDI Sale Advice Note: €1567.84 (received by cheque today)

 The Vodafone paperwork clearly states 'Capital payment' while the Verizon paperwork only makes a cursory reference to showing the documentation to HM Revenue to calculate any 'Capital gains tax liability'. There is no direct mention of this being a Capital payment otherwise.

 I would be very happy if you could confirm if your paperwork is similar.

 Thanks again.


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## Hen

niallshox said:


> Thanks ajapale.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, I spoke to a representative of Computershare today and she told me that they haven't received my 'Form of Election' and therefore my payment was processed as 'income' by default (not capital).
> 
> However, at this point I have no faith in anything that comes from Computershare regarding this Voda/Verizon sell-off.
> 
> I also received three payments.
> 
> 1. Vodafone Return of Value - *Capital* payment: €634.26 (direct to bank a/c)
> 2. Vodafone Fraction payment: €17.79 (direct to bank a/c)
> 
> 3. Verizon - CDI Sale Advice Note: €1567.84 (received by cheque today)
> 
> The Vodafone paperwork clearly states 'Capital payment' while the Verizon paperwork only makes a cursory reference to showing the documentation to HM Revenue to calculate any 'Capital gains tax liability'. There is no direct mention of this being a Capital payment otherwise.
> 
> I would be very happy if you could confirm if your paperwork is similar.
> 
> Thanks again.



On your figures do you have a capital gains liability assuming that you have no other capital gains for the year? I still have not elected to sell my Verizon shares but have till next month to decide and I was wondering would they lead to a capital gain?


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## sole

*Cashing Vodofone joint cheques*

I got my cheques for Vorizon etc shares. 3 cheques for myself - no problem there I will lodge them to my acc.. But We had bought shares for our 3 children (now adults) and we have 3 cheques for them also. They have individual accounts but not a joint acc for  the 3 of them. Can one lodge the cheque even if it has 2 other names on it and it is marked 'non negotiable'.
The cheques amount to 80 euro so we don't want to have to open new accounts as  the 3 are not in the same country now.
Is there a simple solution.


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## 1dave123

Hi Folks - here is my experience just in case it is of interest.

I opted for 

*     Capital return option 
*     Sale of Verizon Shares asap
*     Two payments were made direct to my bank a/c. One on 4th March and one on 5th March.  The 4/3/2014 payment was the Vodafone share cash payment.  The 5/3/2014 payment was a fraction payment relating to the Verizon share purchase
*     I received a cheque yday re the sale of my 9 Verizon shares  -  €306.75

That just about covers it I think.


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## niallshox

As far as I've seen the Revenue have informed shareholders of Vodafone Shares (Eircom originally) will not be subject to CGT due to the accumulated losses since the IPO. This is dependent as your payment being processed as 'capital' and not 'income'.

However if your paperwork wasn't received on time by Computershare, the default is that your payment is deemed income and will be subject to up to 55% tax, USC, etc.


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## ClubMan

ClubMan said:


> OK - thanks. That was my mistake. I assumed that if I elected to get the return of value/share consolidation payment to my bank then the same applied to the proceeds of the Verizon CDI sale. But I read the guide that I linked to earlier again and it does seem to say that the latter payment would be by cheque. So I'll just sit tight and wait for it...



Cheque for Verizon proceeds came in the post today.


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## Aloysius

So what's the bottom line? Is it still approx €1.25 per Vodafone share! split between 2 or 3 cheques?


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## ClubMan

niallshox said:


> Furthermore, nothing on the paperwork from Computershare re either the Vodafone portion or the Verizon portion makes any reference to whether the payment is 'income' or 'capital'.


This is incorrect. The guide issued to shareholders deals with this issue.

[broken link removed]

E.g....



> If you are tax resident in the UK or Ireland (or certain other jurisdictions) you will have a choice as to
> the tax treatment (capital*gain or income tax) in relation to the Return of Value. If you do not make
> a choice you will receive income tax treatment on your Return of Value. Please refer to Question 6
> in Section 4 of*this guide and to Part X of the Circular for further details.


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## ClubMan

Aloysius said:


> So what's the bottom line? Is it still approx €1.25 per Vodafone share! split between 2 or 3 cheques?


Yes: 

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...t-details-of-payout-in-verizon-deal-1.1697080

The Vodafone share consolidation return of value is paid to your bank or by cheque depending on what option you chose on the election form.

The Verizon CDI sale proceeds come by cheque if you chose to sell them.


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## chillaxed

So if I had spent £1000 IEP on eircom shares the first day how much would I have gotten back over the years between the various payouts, dividends and the present value of the shares.

 In other words am I looking at a loss overall and what kind of %?


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## ClubMan

chillaxed said:


> So if I had spent £1000 IEP on eircom shares the first day how much would I have gotten back over the years between the various payouts, dividends and the present value of the shares.
> 
> In other words am I looking at a loss overall and what kind of %?



This Revenue note may help here:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cgt/vodafone-shareholders.html


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## monagt

Was there a maximum amount that you could buy at the start?
Does anyone have a table of amounts due?
Say 500 initially with divs reinvested and Verzon sold would yield ???
Say 500 initially with divs NOT reinvested and Verzon sold would yield ???
Say 500 initially with divs reinvested and Verzon NOT sold would yield ???
etc.


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## niallshox

Thanks Clubman. I should have clarified that nothing on the paperwork received with the Verizon cheque states whether it is 'income' or 'capital' apart from a cursory mention of HM Revenue and CGT.


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## Janet

niallshox said:


> Thanks Clubman. I should have clarified that nothing on the paperwork received with the Verizon cheque states whether it is 'income' or 'capital' apart from a cursory mention of HM Revenue and CGT.



I think (but am open to correction) that it was only the Vodafone return to value portion that had an option to receive it as capital or income. The Verizon sale, if you chose to immediately dispose of your new shares in Verizon, is a bog standard sale of shares, which is _always_ a capital disposal. Maybe someone who's more experienced than I am with buying and selling shares can confirm that.


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## 1dave123

Hi Janet - that is my understanding too.  

The Vodafone letter dealing solely with the return of value element does state that my €125 is a Capital Payment. 

Cheers


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## monagt

> new shares in Verizon, is a bog standard sale of shares, which is always a capital disposal. Maybe someone who's more experienced than I am with buying and selling shares can confirm that.



OK - but the Verizon shares are part of the Vodafone holding...they were not free.............so what is their acquisitor value if you has to treat them as bog standard??

I think all is return of value


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## PMU

chillaxed said:


> So if I had spent £1000 IEP on eircom shares the first day how much would I have gotten back over the years between the various payouts, dividends and the present value of the shares.



I gave an answer to this in this thread http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182033&page=2. (post #34).

For dividends paid you can can check out the Vodafone web site [broken link removed]


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## margaret1

My preference forms were not opened in Bristol before the 1pm deadline on the 20th so the online share default will be in place for the remaining vodafone shares. Would anyone know when we expect to be issued with them and the computershare ID and also if it is straight forward to register online and sell the remaining vodafone shares. Thanks


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## freddiek

guys, need a little help please. know nothing of the recent deal, just doing this on behalf of a parent who is a bit confused:


my mother had shares worth about 95 euro in Vodafone until recently.

She opted for the Capital payment on the "Return of Value form".

she has received 2 different payments in the last week or so.

one was for €12.19 - 'capital payment'. the second was for €30.32 - 'fraction payment'

additionally, it looks like she has also been granted 18 new shares. worth about 50 euro currently.


She had presumed that by completing the "Return of Value form" she would receive the full value or close to that of the 95 euro that her old shares were worth at the time.

So she's surprised that she has got less than half of that so far as well as the fact she never intended or wanted to receive these 'new shares.


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## Janet

She should also receive a cheque from Verizon if she chose to sell the Verizon shares arising as a result of the sale. If she hasn't already done so, she still has until 4 April to send in that form. That was the second page of the form she would have filled out to get the capital payment. I'd really recommend reading through all of this thread - including the links to the various articles in the Irish Times, which explain quite well exactly what happened. As a very small shareholder, she wouldn't have had any choice with regard to "the fact she never intended or wanted to receive these 'new shares" - there was a shareholder vote to decide whether to go ahead with it or not but her tiny shareholding wouldn't really have had a deciding vote.


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## Shaz

Hi,
Would the net cheque amount from Vodafone been different if capital payment instead of income payment was chosen? When would it have been better to choose income payment? I did not inherit vodafone shares from eircom. Just bought them directly myself from a stockbroker in Feb 2013.. I have no other capital gains/loss and pay income tax at 41%. Thanks.


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## frankmac

Ok this is a bit longwinded and I hope it can be understood.

A week before the due date I returned the completed forms opting for "capital" and to sell Verizon shares. I then received a letter saying it was received late and that the proceeds would be treated as income.

I then received a further letter with a "dealing form" to sell the Verizon shares commission free on or before 4th April 2014, however before I got the chance to return this form I received a cheque for the proceeds of the sale of my Verizon shares.

Should I now assume that they did receive my forms on time and treat the monies received as capital.


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## Janet

frankmac said:


> Should I now assume that they did receive my forms on time and treat the monies received as capital.



What does it say on the document from Vodafone outlining the numbers? Mine clearly states that it was a capital payment.


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## Hen

I still have not received any money into my bank account or anything in the post about the sale but when I log online I can see the new shares I hold so the transaction for me seems to have happened. I did not opt to sell my Verizon shares but I have received a letter telling me that I can sell them so I am receiving post. Is it possible to see online what has happened or have I to wait for the post and the lodgement to my bank account?


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## olivia

*What happens now.................*

I received a cheque to the value of €1056.59 for the sale of 31 Verizon shares (average price is €34.08 per share).  What happens now in the process?  Will I be getting another payment and if so, for how much and when should I expect to get it?  I owned the number of shares which resulted from the initial purchase of Eircom shares in the IPO in 1999.


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## Drakon

So people have received their cheques for the sale of their Verizon shares already?  I'd assumed that this would all happen after 4th April.  I only lodged my first two cheques on Tuesday and sent off the final form yesterday.


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## luckystar

I'm very confused by all of this but also very angry; sent form in plenty of time for the selling of Verizon shares with no trading cost and got a letter back today to say it arrived too late


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## Drakon

Got my cheque.  23 shares @34.71 per share.


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## shamrocklady

I'm in the same position.  I was just wondering if you were ever able to resolve this.  Thanks.


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## Nige

Great news for those who got less than €1,000 from the deal and whose option to have it treated as a capital gain was not processed on time - the Revenue will treat these cases as CGT unless you opted for income tax treatment.
http://www.independent.ie/business/...-new-tax-relief-in-finance-bill-30689301.html


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