# Is Auctioneer telling porkies.



## minkydog (9 Apr 2009)

Hi. We spotted house we like and would like to make offer. Auctioneer tells us that there is already an "offer" of 298k on this house, and builder will not let it go for anything less than 320k. It has dropped already from 365k. So my question is when an auctioneer tells you there has been an "offer" on a property, is there some legal or moral code that he has to follow to tell you the truth............think I already know the answer to this. We would not be in a position to offer 298k so want to bid lower to see what happens, but dont want to look stupid by offering less than the so called "offer" if you know what I mean.


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## chrisboy (9 Apr 2009)

Who cares if you look stupid? If they had an offer of 298k on a house lookin for 320k then it would be sale agreed in these times.. Think the EA is windin ya up..


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## j26 (9 Apr 2009)

Whether s/he's being honest or not depends on the person.

If you still want to make a lower offer, just say that you can't match the 298k, but you can offer XXXX, so if the 298 offer falls through for whatever reason, then you would like your offer to be considered.
Also mention that you are looking at other properties, so if the seller is considering your offer, the EA should let you know within the week, as otherwise you may have made a firm offer on another property.


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## mathepac (9 Apr 2009)

minkydog said:


> ... when an auctioneer tells you there has been an "offer" on a property, is there some legal or moral code that he has to follow to tell you the truth...


Not that I am aware of


minkydog said:


> ... .think I already know the answer to this...


'Course you do


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## MrMan (10 Apr 2009)

If you cant afford to meet 298k then the question is irrelevant, offer only what you are comfortable and you can do no more than that.


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## Slaphead (10 Apr 2009)

Just tell him you cant match 298 and thank him for his time, plenty more fish in the sea, prices are only going one way.


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## Senna (10 Apr 2009)

This is just the usual EA Bull.  If you are interested, tell him/her that you dont think 298k is a reasonable price (dont mention budget), but you might consider a figure close to it, dont mention any figure.  Tell them if the builder does become interested, they have your number.  If they dont phone back, no harm, if they do phone then the advantage is yours and you can play hardball on your terms.


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## parkmagic (10 Apr 2009)

Senna said:


> but you might consider a figure close to it.


 
Why give that away?


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## mcmenad (10 Apr 2009)

I agree with parkmagic. Why divulge any figure to an EA. The ball is firmly in the buyers court. You owe the EA and the builder zero.


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## Sage (10 Apr 2009)

We have been looking at houses and so far we have called 5 agents. 4 out of the 5 have told me that there is an offer on the houses. Spoofing, the lot of them! One of the houses we rejected and is still up on daft. Right now its so hard to get a mortgage i find it hard to believe that any house has an offer on it. And im pretty sure that if anyone got an offer they would be jumping at it and not so eager to hold off on accepting it, just so we can view it. I can smell the lie and to be honest its actually turned me off buying with those agents. Im more excited about seeing the house without the lie attached as i know the agent is at least upfront enough to start.


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## Bronte (10 Apr 2009)

Estate agents are just trying not to waste everybody's time.  They say there is a certain offer because the vendor has said they don't want to sell below a certain price.  You are not entering into a relationship with the EA, it's a business transaction, just offer your price and see what happens.


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## MrMan (10 Apr 2009)

Sage said:


> We have been looking at houses and so far we have called 5 agents. 4 out of the 5 have told me that there is an offer on the houses. Spoofing, the lot of them! One of the houses we rejected and is still up on daft. Right now its so hard to get a mortgage i find it hard to believe that any house has an offer on it. And im pretty sure that if anyone got an offer they would be jumping at it and not so eager to hold off on accepting it, just so we can view it. I can smell the lie and to be honest its actually turned me off buying with those agents. Im more excited about seeing the house without the lie attached as i know the agent is at least upfront enough to start.


 
An interesting talent you have there, lie smelling. If you are looking for a house without an offer on it it doesn't mean there is a lie attached it means just that there are no offers, why do people get so ratty when they view a house, like it want it and then find out that someone else wants it too. Is that so implausable or are your tastes extremely individual?
If people think that an EA is lying that shouldn't matter because surely people have the sense to stay within their budget and only offer what they think is reasonable?.


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## mercman (10 Apr 2009)

Yeah and maybe but there is nothing worse than having somebody tell you bareface lies to your face. If you are a cash buyer (not in a chain) tell the EA and make your price in line with what you can afford. And if the builder will not sell below a much higher price then he is mad. You just might get a better chance when the Government's agency gets around to selling the properties.


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## Senna (10 Apr 2009)

parkmagic said:


> Why give that away?


 
Firstly i'm guessing the OP has genuine interest in the house.  The EA usualy states these "offers" because thats a price the vendor will not go below, by saying you would considder an amount close to it, you are giving the EA room to go back to the vendor, with the chance of a slightly lower offer.  But as i said you have not named any amount but atleast you know the 298k is bull and they will take below it.  The balls in your court then.


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## mercman (10 Apr 2009)

In Irish terms 298k means 265k. So start at 250k and go up bit by bit.


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## JiggetyJig (10 Apr 2009)

I have been to see about 7 houses in the last month or so - in all cases I was told that there were no offers on the table and the owners were open to offers!
It was so nice not to feel under any pressure!


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## minkydog (10 Apr 2009)

And thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I think the times they are a changing and EA's I hope are a dying breed. We have dealt with the American system in the past and it is much more civilised system for the buyer than over here. I really do feel that EA's here are many goldfish in a bowl with a dwindling supply of water.


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## DeclanP (11 Apr 2009)

In our part of the world, the builders are dispensing with auctioneers and trying to sell the estates themselves at knockdown prices. Might be no harm if the OP went to the owner of the property to get the lie of the land. Auctioneers are a dying breed . . . thankfully.


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## MandaC (11 Apr 2009)

DeclanP said:


> In our part of the world, the builders are dispensing with auctioneers and trying to sell the estates themselves at knockdown prices. Might be no harm if the OP went to the owner of the property to get the lie of the land. Auctioneers are a dying breed . . . thankfully.



That's a bit unfair.  When I sold my house in Lucan in 2006, the market had just started to turn slightly.  I had a really bad EA and she had not got a clue about this.

After a while with no results, I switched to a guy who really knew his stuff and got me the sale I needed.   They were excellent and I dont think I could have sold without them.


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## Smart_Saver (11 Apr 2009)

hi,
I have a similar question. A friend of mine fom overseas is looking at buying an appartment. We're trying to help out with a little advice. When I have looked however at some figures in Auctioneers or EAs they seem still to be v. expensive. You hear this information about prices having fell up to 40% etc or being back at 2004 levels. Reason I say this is becasue I bought my own house in 2004 and houses of a similar vein in the same area are still being put in the paper (at so called reduced rates) for 30%+ than my 2004 price.
My question is does anyone know where one could find info on house prices for this time frame ie. 2004 - so to have something to check against in terms of seeing if these prices being offered are accurate?
Thanks.


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## Guideline (11 Apr 2009)

Senna said:


> Firstly i'm guessing the OP has genuine interest in the house.  The EA usualy states these "offers" because thats a price the vendor will not go below, by saying you would considder an amount close to it, you are giving the EA room to go back to the vendor, with the chance of a slightly lower offer.  But as i said you have not named any amount but atleast you know the 298k is bull and they will take below it.  The balls in your court then.




I aggree with Parkmagic here.  Say you have a genuine interest in the house, but at the right price, you dont have to say what the price i.e. "a fair bit" below the asking price.


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## MrMan (13 Apr 2009)

minkydog said:


> And thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I think the times they are a changing and EA's I hope are a dying breed. We have dealt with the American system in the past and it is much more civilised system for the buyer than over here. I really do feel that EA's here are many goldfish in a bowl with a dwindling supply of water.


 
I think you have hit the nail on the head with 'thats exactly what I *wanted* to hear'. You were given news that didn't suit and automatically went into defensive mode. The American system would be welcomed by EA's as then the commission rates could rise to 3% and not forgetting the charge of up to 3% for the buyer too.


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## minkydog (13 Apr 2009)

MrMan said:


> I think you have hit the nail on the head with 'thats exactly what I *wanted* to hear'. You were given news that didn't suit and automatically went into defensive mode. The American system would be welcomed by EA's as then the commission rates could rise to 3% and not forgetting the charge of up to 3% for the buyer too.


 
I was not referring to the amount of money that EA's recieve, but the system whereby in the states the EA is working for the buyer and not the vendor. I know the vendor has his own EA working for him, but the system over here where you have two sharks circling a small fish is totally wrong. 
The EA working for you in the states is working in your interest. e.g. when we were buying in the states 5 yrs ago our realtor pointed out to us these pipes that were sticking out of the ground closeby to the back of the property. We did not know what they were, he said there was a dump here 10 years back and the pipes were there to release any methane that had built up. Do you really think that would have happened here.....not a chance.


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## MrMan (13 Apr 2009)

minkydog said:


> I was not referring to the amount of money that EA's recieve, but the system whereby in the states the EA is working for the buyer and not the vendor. I know the vendor has his own EA working for him, but the system over here where you have two sharks circling a small fish is totally wrong.
> The EA working for you in the states is working in your interest. e.g. when we were buying in the states 5 yrs ago our realtor pointed out to us these pipes that were sticking out of the ground closeby to the back of the property. We did not know what they were, he said there was a dump here 10 years back and the pipes were there to release any methane that had built up. Do you really think that would have happened here.....not a chance.


 
The EA that works for the buyer is paid by the buyer so of course they are going to act in you interest. It would be a great extra source of income over here for EA's if there was a market there where buyers wanted to employ an EA to act on their behalf. Do you think that EA's that are paid solely by a vendor to sell their house should act in a way that was not to the full benefit of that vendor?


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## minkydog (13 Apr 2009)

Do you think that EA's that are paid solely by a vendor to sell their house should act in a way that was not to the full benefit of that vendor?[/quote]

Of course not, being a vendor myself in the past. But I do think it is a high time that the American system should be put in place in this country. From first hand experience of it, IMHO it is a fair system where if you employ an EA to show you different properties he/she would be able to point out the positive and negative aspects of the property, and then you the buyer would be able to make an informed decision thus taking away the buyer beware headache from the process.
Also in the states at present realtors are dropping there commissions to 1.5%, so 3% in total for the sale of a property, and not 6% that you wish for.


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## MrMan (13 Apr 2009)

minkydog said:


> Do you think that EA's that are paid solely by a vendor to sell their house should act in a way that was not to the full benefit of that vendor?


 
Of course not, being a vendor myself in the past. But I do think it is a high time that the American system should be put in place in this country. From first hand experience of it, IMHO it is a fair system where if you employ an EA to show you different properties he/she would be able to point out the positive and negative aspects of the property, and then you the buyer would be able to make an informed decision thus taking away the buyer beware headache from the process.
Also in the states at present realtors are dropping there commissions to 1.5%, so 3% in total for the sale of a property, and not 6% that you wish for.[/quote]

Like i have already said, that system would be openly accepted here, would the irish people be willing to pay for the service, prob not. I'd be happy with the 1.5% never mind 6%. The NAR (US equivalent of IAVI) has also invested alot into changing the publics perception of EA's in recent years and has really put the effort into re-branding the profession. They tackled the issue that many people automatically didn't trust EA's yet most didn't have a first hand 'bad experience'. I did a similar study a few years ago and also found similar results.


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## corcoran1 (13 Apr 2009)

as usual a question is asked and everyone goes off on a tangent forgetting that the original poster actually wanted advice. Im in the exact same position. I viewed a house on Friday that has been reduced considerably since going on the market. There hasnt been any intrest over the last year but I was told by the EA that they had an offer on Thursday(the day before I viewed) of €60k below the asking(the house has been reduced by approx 35% since being put up for sale 18 months ago). As it needs loads of work I'd like to get it for as little as possible. I told her that I would call her and arrange a second viewing with my partner. She said fine and that If they didnt get another offer then they would prob go with the offer that they have(apparently its an executor sale). For a house that has had little intrest I was surprised that she didnt give me a day or two to come back to her but she just said we could arrange something for the following Thursday or so. My plan is to let her know that I'm not in a chain, am mortgage approved and am keen to move ASAP. I will then offer less than the offer that she supposidly has and see what her reaction is. Just to be safe I'll ask her to keep me informed before a final decision is made(I will have to choose my words carefully here). I dont believe that there is an offer already there. My advice is to offer the figure that you had in mind that you are comfortable with and let her know(lie if you have to) that you're not in a chain etc etc. In other words make youself out to be a safe bet(just in case there is someone else sniffing around)


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## MrMan (14 Apr 2009)

corcoran1 said:


> as usual a question is asked and everyone goes off on a tangent forgetting that the original poster actually wanted advice. Im in the exact same position. I viewed a house on Friday that has been reduced considerably since going on the market. There hasnt been any intrest over the last year but I was told by the EA that they had an offer on Thursday(the day before I viewed) of €60k below the asking(the house has been reduced by approx 35% since being put up for sale 18 months ago). As it needs loads of work I'd like to get it for as little as possible. I told her that I would call her and arrange a second viewing with my partner. She said fine and that If they didnt get another offer then they would prob go with the offer that they have(apparently its an executor sale). For a house that has had little intrest I was surprised that she didnt give me a day or two to come back to her but she just said we could arrange something for the following Thursday or so. My plan is to let her know that I'm not in a chain, am mortgage approved and am keen to move ASAP. I will then offer less than the offer that she supposidly has and see what her reaction is. Just to be safe I'll ask her to keep me informed before a final decision is made(I will have to choose my words carefully here). I dont believe that there is an offer already there. My advice is to offer the figure that you had in mind that you are comfortable with and let her know(lie if you have to) that you're not in a chain etc etc. In other words make youself out to be a safe bet(just in case there is someone else sniffing around)


 

To choose your words carefully I would say as little as possible. If you make an offer she is obliged to keep you informed. My advice would be pick a price you can afford and want to pay and put that forward, if she says its way off the mark and thats all you are willing to pay. Don't go on about the market or be aggressive, if you are nice to deal with people often will try a little harder to make a deal work in your favour.


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## alspants (23 Apr 2009)

Its funny how lies gets to porkie pies which then gets to porkies which is more understandable as lies then pies.


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## parkmagic (25 Apr 2009)

MrMan said:


> To choose your words carefully I would say as little as possible. If you make an offer she is obliged to keep you informed. My advice would be pick a price you can afford and want to pay and put that forward, if she says its way off the mark and thats all you are willing to pay. Don't go on about the market or be aggressive, if you are nice to deal with people often will try a little harder to make a deal work in your favour.


 
Pick the absolute cheapest you think, not the amount you can afford.


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## MrMan (27 Apr 2009)

parkmagic said:


> Pick the absolute cheapest you think, not the amount you can afford.


Thats kind of why I said 'can afford and *want to pay' *I was making the assumption that everyone wants the cheapest price.


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## Setanta12 (27 Apr 2009)

Onto that tangent again - but people should read Freakonomics about EA's and how they can work against the Vendor.


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## MrMan (27 Apr 2009)

Setanta12 said:


> Onto that tangent again - but people should read Freakonomics about EA's and how they can work against the Vendor.


 
It makes plenty of interesting arguments, but you can ardly say any of them are defining. They offer interesting alternatives to topical circumstances.


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## television (27 Apr 2009)

MrMan said:


> Thats kind of why I said 'can afford and *want to pay' *I was making the assumption that everyone wants the cheapest price.


 
I *can afford* to pay  a million pounds if im earning 50 million a year. I may love the house and *want to pay the million*. Sometimes people want something more than the value of something and think becuase they can afford it they will have it.  Its the problem with the celtic tiger over the last 10 years


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## MrMan (28 Apr 2009)

television said:


> I *can afford* to pay a million pounds if im earning 50 million a year. I may love the house and *want to pay the million*. Sometimes people want something more than the value of something and think becuase they can afford it they will have it. Its the problem with the celtic tiger over the last 10 years


 
Even people with money always wanted the best deal for themselves. They were willing to go the extra mile, but first and foremost everyone wants to get a 'deal'.


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## Locke (30 Apr 2009)

2 Tales from Friends. 

First one. 

Friend puts offer on house, EA says higher offer put in by already by couple who saw on the same day. Friend knew couple to see, went and said, no point in trying to outbid each other (so one of them can get the house) Couple said they hadn't put on an offer on the house. EA fibbing.

Second, 6 years ago, another friend bidding on house she really wanted. Offer rejected. She was dissapointed by it and called into house she wanted to chat to the sellers about the property when it was sale agreed.

Sellers said they had acepted a lower bid, EA never passed on her offer. Reletive of EA had bid lower.

They cannot be trusted. You are the one with the money. You call the shots. Walk all over them, don't let them walk all over you.


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## MrMan (30 Apr 2009)

Locke said:


> 2 Tales from Friends.
> 
> First one.
> 
> ...


 
It's always good to get the perspective of a friend of a friend.


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## Locke (30 Apr 2009)

MrMan said:


> It's always good to get the perspective of a friend of a friend.


 
Doesn't really bother me what way you take it MrMan

Take it whatever way you want but they're reputation preceeds them.


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## MrMan (30 Apr 2009)

Locke said:


> Doesn't really bother me what way you take it MrMan
> 
> Take it whatever way you want but they're reputation preceeds them.


 
I shouldn't have posted tbh because this is exactly the type of ignorant babble that gets spouted about most professions from time to time.


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## Locke (30 Apr 2009)

Is it really? Then why bother posting it? Or should I assume that my input isn't permitted?

Why not bring something constructive or simply bring nothing at all. It's people like you with your high and mighty opinions (or lack of) that really bring down this board.


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## MrMan (30 Apr 2009)

Locke said:


> Is it really? Then why bother posting it? Or should I assume that my input isn't permitted?
> 
> Why not bring something constructive or simply bring nothing at all. It's people like you with your high and mighty opinions (or lack of) that really bring down this board.


Well one of my friends told me that their friend told them that my posts were constructive, so they must be. Hope thats not too high or indeed mighty.


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## SteH (30 Apr 2009)

Why are people buying at the moment... oh wait they're not. Here is a quote from the central bank's monthly statistics report released today:
"_The net increase in residential mortgage credit during the first three months of 2009 was €428 million. The comparable figure for the first three months of 2008 was €2.6 billion._" 
In March alone there was only €20million in mortgages given out, an all time low. So people are not buying and therefore I would advise the OP that making an offer of €260,000 is probably more realistic. [broken link removed] and the estate agent is on commission so they are doing whatever they can to get the sale. If you don't get accepted then walk away, you are in the minority of people as you are trying to buy when everyone is trying to sell. You can offer what you like.


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## lulu1 (30 Apr 2009)

time to play hardball only offer what you can afford/think house is worth to you- all auctioneers I've dealt with over last few weeks told me the following with straight faces:
1. they are selling one house per week
2. demand so high they have run out of 3 & 4 beds
3. when asked why sellers were selling in these hard times - auctioneer stated they want to trade up and now is best time to sell

????!!!????!!! methinks auctioneers have not landed in 2009 yet, suffering from remember the old days of 2005 syndrome.  Also overheard auctioneers on phone giving much guff to weary sellers ("I def have someone interested in your home") - to date only met one honest auctioneer who said it like it is "ignore prices the list they've come down again"  play hardball - and ignore the guff


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## Locke (1 May 2009)

MrMan said:


> Well one of my friends told me that their friend told them that my posts were constructive, so they must be. Hope thats not too high or indeed mighty.


 
Yeah? Well, they were having you on.


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## sarajane2009 (1 May 2009)

When my Husband and I were buying our first house, the EA who was selling the original house we went to see gazzumped us. No time for them. 

FAO MrMan - Are you an Estate Agent? You seem to be ignorant to the fact that these things go on with EA's. I agree with Locke, their repuation preceeds them and I know this for a fact from personal experiences.


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## NorthDrum (1 May 2009)

Like in any profession there are dodgy EA's and good honest ones .

When I bought the house I am in now, the EA was actually a friend of my Aunty's. Now Im not sure if this was their fault, but they advised me to buy this house quick (which I took in good faith and did) as the others had been sold out. Apparantly 3 of the houses fell through (there werent that many sold in my estate!) and were sold at a knockdown price (up to 8%) in the space of a week of me buying . . My neighbour told me what they paid and I nearly went mad . .

Take what you want from that.

Personally from the OPs point of view if the house is coming down from €365k, I would think that €250k is a good figure to start on. The buyer has all the power in the marketplace. If you see a place you like, dont get too emotionally attached (as thats when we make mistakes). Accept that theres plenty more out there and that you have control of what you bid for the property (not what the property will be sold for).

http://www.thepropertypin.com/

This website gives rough indication of where property was and is now (in many cases). Worth a look . .


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## Lobby (1 May 2009)

Locke said:


> 2 Tales from Friends.
> 
> First one.
> 
> ...


 
In your second example then you are advocating that the vendor should have gazumped the offer thay had already accepted????


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## Lobby (1 May 2009)

sarajane2009 said:


> When my Husband and I were buying our first house, the EA who was selling the original house we went to see gazzumped us. No time for them.
> 
> FAO MrMan - Are you an Estate Agent? You seem to be ignorant to the fact that these things go on with EA's. I agree with Locke, their repuation preceeds them and I know this for a fact from personal experiences.


 

EAs don't gazump people - vendors and bidders do. EAs are obliged by law to pass on higher offers even if the property is already sale agreed. The decision to then gazump is entirely the vendors.


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## sarajane2009 (1 May 2009)

Lobby said:


> EAs don't gazump people - vendors and bidders do. EAs are obliged by law to pass on higher offers even if the property is already sale agreed. The decision to then gazump is entirely the vendors.


 
Oh come on, don't be so naive. If you have sale agreed you have sale agreed. There needs to be some level of trust in the process. Is it any wonder they have that weasled perception floating about


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## Locke (1 May 2009)

Lobby said:


> In your second example then you are advocating that the vendor should have gazumped the offer thay had already accepted????


 
Lobby.

She had put in offer before lower offer had been recieved.. So no. That is not what I am suggesting. Effective use of the Question Mark key though. Well done.


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## Lobby (1 May 2009)

sarajane2009 said:


> Oh come on, don't be so naive. If you have sale agreed you have sale agreed. There needs to be some level of trust in the process. Is it any wonder they have that weasled perception floating about


 
Sale agreed has no legal meaning in this country, if an EA doesn't pass on a higher offer then they can be sued for negligence. 

It may not be right, but the problem here is the law as it stands.


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## Lobby (1 May 2009)

Locke said:


> Lobby.
> 
> She had put in offer before lower offer had been recieved.. So no. That is not what I am suggesting. Effective use of the Question Mark key though. Well done.


 
In that case the EA has been negligent and not acting in its clients best interest.


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## MrMan (1 May 2009)

sarajane2009 said:


> When my Husband and I were buying our first house, the EA who was selling the original house we went to see gazzumped us. No time for them.
> 
> FAO MrMan - Are you an Estate Agent? You seem to be ignorant to the fact that these things go on with EA's. I agree with Locke, their repuation preceeds them and I know this for a fact from personal experiences.


Hi Sarah, I see you are new so yes I am an (out of work) EA (reason I say you are new is that i have posted that I am an EA many times in line with guidelines etc).
When you say that the EA gazumped you I presume that you mean the EA actually owned the house otherwise he couldn't actually gazump you. EA's must pass on all offers to their clients and also give them advice. Do you know that whenever a situation arrived and a new offer came in to gazupt the sale agreed offer I would generally have said stick to the original offer because the new one might not be stable. Guess what 9 out of 10 people did in this situation? And then I would have to pick up the phone and take the flak as the greedy weasel EA, I guess its easier for people to have a fall guy than to open their eyes and see the truth.
As regards my ignorance to what goes on within my profession, I have stated many times that bad practices are in place in some companies, but i would never have the proof or believe that bad practices are carried out by all. It would be quite a statement to label an entire profession like that.
I dealt with integrity and with people who put reputation first as the key to survival in the long term. You can be shrewd and maintain your integrity.


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## MrMan (1 May 2009)

sarajane2009 said:


> Oh come on, don't be so naive. If you have sale agreed you have sale agreed. There needs to be some level of trust in the process. Is it any wonder they have that weasled perception floating about


 
If I sale agree your house for 400k and subsequently receive and offer for 415k. i *have *to put that offer to you. you then make the decision. Do you take the 400k or can you see what the extra 15k could do for your family? My advice would be based on the strength of each bidder and the information at hand, I haven't been instructed to give lessons in morality. Which offer would you choose. As your EA it would be easier for me if you took the original offer because then I could take the new guy to look at similar properties, if you take the new offer the gazumped party would consider me the bad guy and I would prob lose his current and future business.


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