# VHI vs. Bupa vs. Viva....?



## DrMoriarty (17 May 2005)

Evening all,

I know this is a bit lazy of me, but... _(where are the smilies gone?)_

I've been with the VHI for ages, largely through inertia, but my renewal date is coming around soon and - having seen the renewal premium quoted - I'm thinking of moving to either Bupa or Viva. I know it's hard to compare policies and premiums directly, but would be interested in hearing any views on this before I go wading through the small print.

I've been quoted €1,104.52 (that's net of tax relief and of a 10% Group scheme discount) to continue on Plan A 'Options' for a family of seven - two adults and five kids; the 4th and 5th being free. I know that's pretty low-level cover; to be honest, it's only there to cover a worst-case scenario involving hospitalisation (we live in Limerick, and this plan entitles us to semi-private accommodation in all the main hospitals, or private if semi-private isn't available, as is often the case at the Regional...) Indeed, it hasn't even been worth my while to submit a claim in recent years, given the high excess and (pretty derisory) €20-per-GP-visit max.

We're all in pretty good health, thankfully. Typically, the bulk of our medical expenses consists of GP fees and prescription medicines and, as the youngest is now 6, even those have waned in recent years. Oh, and - having done more than our bit for the perpetuation of the Moriarty species - maternity benefit is no longer a consideration _(..damn, where are those smilies gone!)_

I'm still (as a responsible breadwinner!) reluctant to do without it altogether, but I can't help wondering whether I mightn't get better value with an alternative plan, and maybe some kind of HSA-type cover? My own salary - our only income, other than Child Benefit - is fully assured and insured, through an income continuance scheme, and all the kids are insured via their schools' schemes for accidental injury (24/7). Could I save myself a bit of money by opting for lesser cover? Or a plan that would reimburse me better for the kind of expenses that I most typically incur?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer..!


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## ClubMan (17 May 2005)

Have you had a look at the [broken link removed] which attempt to compare plans from different health insurance providers on standard criteria?


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## RainyDay (17 May 2005)

Note that the cover available from HSA and other similar cash-plans have very low coverage limits (usually of hundreds of euro) compared to the standard VHI or BUPA (and presumably Vivas, though I know little about them) policies. If you encounter a serious medical issue where treatment costs will run to thousands of euro, you'll need to either rely on the public health system, or shell out personally for the large fees involved.


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## DrMoriarty (18 May 2005)

Thanks guys, that's very helpful. It looks like I could certainly save a couple of hundred and get equivalent cover with Bupa (with similar out-patient benefits and excess), or pay €180 more with Viva and claim back much more (up to €630 p.a. for GP visits and the same again for dentists, and with only a €250 family excess instead of VHI/Bupa's €470)

I'll get on the 'phone and check that I'm not miscalculating anything...


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## Guest127 (4 Jun 2005)

doc. i appear to be thinking along the same lines as your self on this one. have thought many times about ceasing cover but always renewed in the end. plan b for many years and then when vhi gave 'cheaper' cover to students on 'options' I 'upgraded' to options. I already posted this elsewhere but to cut a story short changed my 21 year old from vhi to bupa last year( clubman dont get excited. shes in college and I have informed her that I will cover her Bupa costs until she finalises and then its up to her) as vhi messed me about. This year between consultant, hospital and other costs 1 day in bons in glasnevin came to over €1700 and bupa covered about €1300 of that. If had enrolled her in a plan higher ie essential plus then they would have covered about €1500 but as you state , its really for peace of mind, where an emergency or unforseen circumstance occurs as happened this year. for what its worth the bupa payment of €1300 will cover the cost of premiums for approx 4 years. Have an 18 year old now going to college and this year I am switching him to bottom Bupa plan


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## Guest127 (27 Jun 2005)

should have touched wood. 18 year old rushed into hospital on friday suffering from severe stomack pains. transferred from Louth Hospital to Drogheda for op ( supposed to take place on Friday night but was 'bumped' off until saturday. Apendicitis which was at advanced stage. Nurse mentioned 'free flow' which didnt sound good. but hes home and ok now TG. Staff at louth hospital dundalk and lourdes hospital drogheda couldn't have been nicer but the system is all wrong. Louth diagnosed the apendicitis on friday just after 7pm and sent him by ambulance to drogheda as the theatre in dundalk closes for the weekend at 6pm ( obviously the HSE does not expect anyone to get seriously ill in north louth after 6pm or on saturday/sundays) Drogheda kept getting more 'urgent' cases and the consultant we met was under pressure all day saturday. he knew my son was serious enough but as he outlined to us his was the team on duty and he had to keep prioritising his cases. finally got around to my fella at around 4.30pm on saturday, which could have been disastrous. any advice on whether i should get on the hse about this scandalous state of affairs? it was NOT the fault of the staff. they were clearly under pressure, especially the surgeon. its the system. For instance when my son was taken into the drogheda hospital the nurse on duty ( clearly under strain) attacked the ambulance men for 'takiing in new patients at this hour, (in ward at approx 8.45pm) , the ambulance drivers, clearly used to it chided her about the 'long face' and suitably disarmed she told them it wasn't their fault but _Dundalk's _for lumping her with an additional patient at that hour. Clearly it wasn't _Dundalk's_ fault but the Hse for closing the theatre in dundalk at 6pm. I also know in this  case being in the vhi was not a consideration during either the time in the louth or the lourdes. I know it will be when they come around to billing but it definitely wasnt with the doctors or nurses. they were just trying to get through their work as best they could. the surgeon on duty on friday night at midnight was the surgeon on duty on saturday as well.


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## DrMoriarty (28 Jun 2005)

Jeez, cuchulainn, that's one helluva busy/stressful weekend - for yourself and your wife as much as (and more than) all the professionals mentioned! Hope the lad is alright - at the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters.

Had an equivalent scenario (or nearly - burst appendix emergency, once again) with our 11-year-old, a couple of years ago. Thankfully the timing worked out OK and he was seen pdq down in the Limerick Regional (the paediatric ward there is light years ahead of anything an adult could hope for, checking into the same establishment...) But if the whole thing had come on top on a busy weekend night, I can't imagine what might have been. As it was, the surgeon told me (not the wife) afterwards that if he hadn't been seen to when he was, he could have died on a trolley within 6-8 hours.

It makes my stomach turn to think that this is the best our Health Services can do, in the 'greatest-little-oul'-economy-in-the-world' - private or public doesn't matter a dry sh1te in a scenario like you've just outlined. And as you've pointed out, the blame lies not with the hard-pressed doctors and nurses on the coalface, but with a succession of Ministers and - from here on in - with the HSE.

First off, take time out to recover from that ordeal - all of you. But afterwards, you'll be doing every one of us a favour by kicking up the most ferocious stink you can. Bollick your TD out of it. Write to the HSE and the Minister, and copy it all to the press. Get on to 'Uncle' Joe, 'Bollix' Ryan ('Auntie' Finucane being now 'retired', of course...) - anyone that'll give you some airspace.

Of course, I know you probably won't get round to doing any of that — any more than I did myself, two years ago (or on a few other occasions where I should have). We're too busy getting on with life and trying to look after our own responsibilities. But there's something deeply rotten in this country...

End of rant. Go well, and I hope the young fella makes a speedy recovery.


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## Guest127 (29 Jun 2005)

thanks Dr M. think i will write to hse about this. Louth is a small county and there  is a motorway all the way between the two towns but if monaghan is closed for business and navan is also closed for ops and dundalk joins in on weekends it puts a hell of a strain on the staff in drogheda.  we were supposed to be at a wedding in galway and its lucky we didnt go. i dont think the appendix actually burst but it was close. doc just said it was messy but nurse said that there was some 'free flow', whatever that is. i know they said they intended to do keyhole but it wasn't possible.It was stressful keeping being bumped back by 'more urgent' cases, utopic (?) pregnancy and perforated bowel being two specifically mentioned. hes ok. wants to get back to his summer job asap, tomorrow if we let him. Youth!
cheers
Cu


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