# Parents being sued for accident during birthday party



## liaconn (13 Jan 2010)

A friend of mine's daughter will be 7 in a couple of weeks and is dying to have a party. My friend is very reluctant however because her sister and brother in law were sued after their child's last party because another child fell off the swing and broke her front tooth. Apparently the child's uncle is a solicitor and advised them to do this. 

 Following on all the talk of people looking for someone to take a case against if the slipped on last week's ice this just makes me think the whole compensation culture here has gone absolutely mad and people with a legal background are often the worst culprits.  

I know someone else who is a doctor but stays very quiet if she's out and someone needs medical attention for fear of ending up being sued.


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## Caveat (13 Jan 2010)

Doctors in this country seem to have a poor reputation with the non-Irish here.  They say that they don't seem to know anything and that patients seem to be referred to a specialist for the slightest thing.  Same reason as above - afraid of being sued.  The government should step in as it is now beyond ridiculous. 

Take Spain for example, works being done on footpaths and roads are regularly left unattended and not fully protected - sheer drops semi-exposed, uprooted paving stones etc.  Virtually no claims - except in extreme cases the attitude there is "well, you should watch where you're going shouldn't you?"

Proper order.


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## truthseeker (13 Jan 2010)

Totally agree with you on this Liaconn. I actually used to know a family where the mother was compo claim mad and her own relations were disinclined to invite her to their homes in case of a 'fall' and a claim to follow.

One of my neighbours cleared the footpath outside and I DID slip on it - didnt fall, but even if I had, in a million years I wouldnt have dreamt of claiming off them for it, sure I could just as easily have slipped anywhere else on the pavement at the time - its icy all over.


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## RMCF (13 Jan 2010)

Do 'accidents' not happen any more?


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## Purple (13 Jan 2010)

My daughter fell at a classmate’s birthday party in Lesureplex in Stillorgan and knocked out a tooth. When I arrived to pick her up the first thing the manager did was offer me the contact details of their solicitor.  7 year old children fall all the time; the place was not unsafe so why the hell would I sue? It was a baby tooth anyway so there was no real harm done.


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## liaconn (13 Jan 2010)

A lot of schools won't let the kids run around in the yard anymore, in case they fall and the school will get sued. It's terrible the way a few greedy, idiot parents can ruin it for all kids.


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## Graham_07 (13 Jan 2010)

I once had a serviceman call to fix a dishwasher. While in the kitchen with some water from the machine on the floor he said words to the effect "you want to watch those tiles, someone could slip on them & have a claim against you". I didn't leave his sight until he left the house and would never have him back. 

Someone said above do accident's ever happen any more, I remember being told as a child "accident's don't happen, they are caused". I wonder if this " someone must have done it to me" culture is, together with begrudgery is somehow hard wired into the national psyche somewhere.


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## Latrade (13 Jan 2010)

I suppose the moral of this is that when your kids' baby teeth fall out naturally, save them and then when someone has a party get the kid to fall over, produce the tooth as a injury and it's hello Disney Land Orlando for the summer holiday.


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## bb12 (13 Jan 2010)

but isn't this what you're public liability insurance is for? a friends child slipped in our yard and broke his front tooth a few years back. we called the insurance co to be safe and they said it was all covered by them if there was to be a claim (which there wasn't)


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## johnd (13 Jan 2010)

I think the fault lies with judges who award hugh sums for minor injuries and which in any other country would not even end up in court. That and ambulance chasing solictors who instead off telling their client to take a hike actually encourages them


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## Purple (13 Jan 2010)

Latrade said:


> I suppose the moral of this is that when your kids' baby teeth fall out naturally, save them and then when someone has a party get the kid to fall over, produce the tooth as a injury and it's hello Disney Land Orlando for the summer holiday.


 Or you could just break into a house, steal their stuff and sell it... it's the same thing; stealing.


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## Firefly (13 Jan 2010)

Purple said:


> Or you could just break into a house, steal their stuff and sell it... it's the same thing; stealing.


 
..and trip over something on the way out and sue them too


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## RMCF (13 Jan 2010)

Firefly said:


> ..and trip over something on the way out and sue them too



Or hang around til they come home, let the dad batter you, then sue him for GBH. 

Result.


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## sandrat (13 Jan 2010)

I remember my aunt being in the high court a few years back after a bad car accident. The case before hers was a boy who had tripped at a badly lit step on his holidays and lost a tooth. His parents sued the travel agent because it didnt mention the steps in the brochure. He got 15000. Incidentally it took 4 years for my aunts claim to get to court, wonder what is holding things up?


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## Mpsox (14 Jan 2010)

It's not just Ireland, I heard someone on the BBC talking about schools during the bad weather, seemingly some schools which were open had to close their playgrounds because of "health and safety" issues. The headmaster made the comment that if they had closed the school in it's entirety, the kids would have been let out skating and sledging by their parents instead anyway. 

I've a colleague of mine who was in a car crash a few years back, she is suing the guy who hit her for over €100k, all she got was a bit of a sore neck for a few weeks. She knows the case will be settled outside of court by the insurers for a proportion of that, hence why she is asking so much. Explains some of the posts elsewhere about increases in car insurance


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## Latrade (14 Jan 2010)

Mpsox said:


> I've a colleague of mine who was in a car crash a few years back, she is suing the guy who hit her for over €100k, all she got was a bit of a sore neck for a few weeks. She knows the case will be settled outside of court by the insurers for a proportion of that, hence why she is asking so much. Explains some of the posts elsewhere about increases in car insurance


 
I happened upon a TV3 programme the other night, one of those UK "nightmare" programmes. This was about beauty treatments. Some pretty shocking stuff in the last bit I saw a scalp with 3rd degree burns by poorly applied products in a salon and a gaping wound left by dodgy plastic surgeon. 

The kind of injury that requires extension repair and treatment and leaves a life long physicaly and psychological scar. In both cases the people sued, they both got around £20K compensation. I just laughed and thought I could probably double that for a bad back here. Suckers.


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## Slash (14 Jan 2010)

johnd said:


> I think the fault lies with judges who award hugh sums for minor injuries and which in any other country would not even end up in court. That and ambulance chasing solictors who instead off telling their client to take a hike actually encourages them



You are absolutely right. The ambulance chasers initiate the claim. Obviously, not all solicitors are unscrupulous, greedy, and amoral, but many are. The self-congratulatory, and incredibly pompous Incorporated Law Society of Ireland takes no action aganst these people.


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## MOB (14 Jan 2010)

Mpsox said:


> I've a colleague of mine who was in a car crash a few years back, she is suing the guy who hit her for over €100k, all she got was a bit of a sore neck for a few weeks.



But are you going to do anything about it?  If not, why not?   

Fraudulent or exaggerated claims constitute theft from all of us. 

"Ambulance chasing"  lawyers and unduly generous judges may indeed by a significant problem ( I give no opinion on this) but our very Irish inclination to look the other way (whatever you say, say nothing...) is in my opinion the single biggest problem in stamping out bogus claims.  

The "ambulance chasers" initiate nothing.  It is the claimants who initiate a claim.


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## Slash (14 Jan 2010)

MOB said:


> The "ambulance chasers" initiate nothing.  It is the claimants who initiate a claim.



Well, I thought it would be only a short time until a solicitor would jump to the defence of the so-called Legal Profession. I would probably do the same if I were a solicitor. However, Ireland's compo culture exists as a result of unscrupulous solicitors. If solicitors told potential clients with nonsense claims to get lost and cop on to themselves, there would be no compo culture.

Presumably, MOB will not agree, and that's fair enough.


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## Latrade (14 Jan 2010)

Slash said:


> Well, I thought it would be only a short time until a solicitor would jump to the defence of the so-called Legal Profession. I would probably do the same if I were a solicitor. However, Ireland's compo culture exists as a result of unscrupulous solicitors. If solicitors told potential clients with nonsense claims to get lost and cop on to themselves, there would be no compo culture.
> 
> Presumably, MOB will not agree, and that's fair enough.


 
Just out of interest, note the amount of threads on here that tend to end with "Who's liable?" or "Do I have a case?". This is before any consultation with a solicitor.

A solicitor will take on a case where there is a case. A case exists because of the current legal system rather than because of the solicitor.


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## MOB (14 Jan 2010)

Slash said:


> Well, I thought it would be only a short time until a solicitor would jump to the defence of the so-called Legal Profession. I would probably do the same if I were a solicitor. However, Ireland's compo culture exists as a result of unscrupulous solicitors. If solicitors told potential clients with nonsense claims to get lost and cop on to themselves, there would be no compo culture.
> 
> Presumably, MOB will not agree, and that's fair enough.



I don't think I did jump to the defence of the so-called Legal Profession.  

In fact, I thought that I was careful to express no opinion whatever on the various criticisms of the Legal Profession.  It is not a debate I propose to enter.  

I did raise what I thought was a point worth making:--it is commonplace to complain that 'somebody should do something'  but it is disappointingly rare for a complainant to actually get up and be that somebody.  I view it as one of our national failings.


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## Staples (14 Jan 2010)

If insurance companies properly challenged the legitimacy a few more claims rather than taking the administratively-efficent option of settling quickly, we might all be a bit better off.

That said, I think it's a bit rich for anyone in the legal profession to deny that its members (or at least some of them) don't actively encourage personal injury claims.  You only have to look at the Golden Pages for evidence of that practice.  It's a bit like saying that the banks didn't have a hand in excessive borrowing.


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## MOB (14 Jan 2010)

Staples said:


> That said, I think it's a bit rich for anyone in the legal profession to deny that its members (or at least some of them) don't actively encourage personal injury claims.



I take it that this is a general observation.   And again, just to be 100% clear, no such denial made in this thread;  a very firm no comment.


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## bogle (14 Jan 2010)

I remember all the hullabaloo when PIAB - www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/ - was being set up. 
Yes indeed, the legal profession welcomed it with open arms


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## gabsdot (14 Jan 2010)

I feel sorry for the kid whose parent's sued. She'll never get invited anywhere again.


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## Complainer (14 Jan 2010)

Graham_07 said:


> I once had a serviceman call to fix a dishwasher. While in the kitchen with some water from the machine on the floor he said words to the effect "you want to watch those tiles, someone could slip on them & have a claim against you". I didn't leave his sight until he left the house and would never have him back.


Don't shoot the messenger!



Latrade said:


> I suppose the moral of this is that when your kids' baby teeth fall out naturally, save them and then when someone has a party get the kid to fall over, produce the tooth as a injury and it's hello Disney Land Orlando for the summer holiday.


The modern-day tooth fairy!



liaconn said:


> My friend is very reluctant however because her sister and brother in law were sued after their child's last party because another child fell off the swing and broke her front tooth. Apparently the child's uncle is a solicitor and advised them to do this.


I presume she never drives a car either, because I've heard of car drivers being sued after an accident. And she never cycles or walks either, in case she causes an accident and gets sued. And she never picks up a knife, just in case. 

She's just a fool.


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## michaelm (15 Jan 2010)

Caveat said:


> Take Spain for example, works being done on footpaths and roads are regularly left unattended and not fully protected - sheer drops semi-exposed, uprooted paving stones etc.  Virtually no claims - except in extreme cases the attitude there is "well, you should watch where you're going shouldn't you?"


Spain is as you describe because of the lack of claims.  We should thank genuine claimants as it is because of them that our environment is relatively safe.  Fraudulent claimants should, of course, be prosecuted.


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## Staples (15 Jan 2010)

MOB said:


> I take it that this is a general observation. And again, just to be 100% clear, no such denial made in this thread; a very firm no comment.


 
None needed.  We're capable of drawing our own conclusions.


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## Caveat (15 Jan 2010)

michaelm said:


> Spain is as you describe because of the lack of claims. We should thank genuine claimants as it is because of them that our environment is relatively safe. Fraudulent claimants should, of course, be prosecuted.


 
Bit of a chicken/egg thing. I don't think Spain is particularly 'unsafe' as it happens. In comparison with this country it may appear to have a nonchalant or cavalier attitude but the sheer drops etc that I mention have always had proper signage etc and had quite obvious demarcation IME.  The main contrast with here I suppose is that the opportunities for fraudulent claims are more obvious - if people were that way inclined.


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## Bronte (15 Jan 2010)

MOB said:


> But are you going to do anything about it? If not, why not?
> 
> Fraudulent or exaggerated claims constitute theft from all of us.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with your point on the Irish inclination to look the other way.  But in Mpsox's case I personally would not interfere.  I wonder why that is.  Is that cowardly, is it wrong?


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## johnd (15 Jan 2010)

No fee no win is still the situation in this country, as i understands it. I think if you are suing someone then a certain amount should have to be paid up front. That would discourage those who sue for minor cuts and scraps. If the insurance companies made it clear that they would fight all questionable cases and no settling out of court would take place and solicitors cannot advertise that fact then the number of claims would drop.  

Have a look at the solicitor's pages in the Golden Pages and some of them would look more at home on Wanted Posters - talk about people ending up looking like their pets...


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## liaconn (15 Jan 2010)

It seems to be a mindset with a lot of solicitors. I know of another case where a child was being bullied via nasty texts by a number of kids in her school. The parents of the bullies were called to a meeting and most of them were very upset and concerned at their children's behaviour. One guy, however, (a solicitor) was more interested in threatening to sue the school for defamation (or something) because they couldn't prove that someone else hadn't used his daughter's phone to send the bullying messages.


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## Staples (15 Jan 2010)

liaconn said:


> It seems to be a mindset with a lot of solicitors. I know of another case where a child was being bullied via nasty texts by a number of kids in her school. The parents of the bullies were called to a meeting and most of them were very upset and concerned at their children's behaviour. One guy, however, (a solicitor) was more interested in threatening to sue the school for defamation (or something) because they couldn't prove that someone else hadn't used his daughter's phone to send the bullying messages.


 
In fairness, you don't have to be a solicitor to be that belligerent.  

Within the legal profession, as with all professions, there exists a range of competences.  With respect to those involved, I wouldn't regard conveyancing or personal injury claims as being at the high end of the profession and don't regard the skills or competencies needed to make a living from these services as being particularly challenging.

There's certainly a need to distinguish between the ambulance chasers advertised inthe Golden Pages and those who might offer a more rounded version of legal advice.


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## liaconn (16 Jan 2010)

Staples said:


> In fairness, you don't have to be a solicitor to be that belligerent.


 
No, but in my experience a lot of legal people start immediately looking at the legal side of a personal situation they find themselves in, instead of using common sense. Accidents happen, it doesn't always have to be someone's 'fault'. If your child is accused of something, your first concern should be the child, not the legal loopholes and scoring points.


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## indebtedgal (21 Jan 2010)

liaconn said:


> A friend of mine's daughter will be 7 in a couple of weeks and is dying to have a party. My friend is very reluctant however because her sister and brother in law were sued after their child's last party because another child fell off the swing and broke her front tooth. Apparently the child's uncle is a solicitor and advised them to do this.
> 
> Following on all the talk of people looking for someone to take a case against if the slipped on last week's ice this just makes me think the whole compensation culture here has gone absolutely mad and people with a legal background are often the worst culprits.
> 
> I know someone else who is a doctor but stays very quiet if she's out and someone needs medical attention for fear of ending up being sued.


 

I haven't read all the posts but would just like to say the parents of this child ( the one that fell off the swing) should be ashamed of themselves. What an example to give to their child. I am actually shaking with temper reading it. As a mother of 2 i am amazed at that. I wonder how many more birthday parties this child will be invited to...Ahhhhh.. NONE. My god, I am stuck for words. Please pass on to this family that are being sued my sympathy, and if anyone knows the parents that are suing. May they not have a minutes luck.


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## Brianne (21 Jan 2010)

In order to tackle what is basically dishonesty and theft which reduces the amount payable to genuine claimants and gives everyone involved a bad name,we have to act. Talk is cheap but people who commit fraud are guilty of crime. Here's what you do. 
The link should take you to the site of the Irish Insurance Federation which has a page dealing with fraud.
[broken link removed]


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## Bazoo (22 Jan 2010)

Staples said:


> In fairness, you don't have to be a solicitor to be that belligerent.
> 
> Within the legal profession, as with all professions, there exists a range of competences.  *With respect to those involved, I wouldn't regard conveyancing or personal injury claims as being at the high end of the profession and don't regard the skills or competencies needed to make a living from these services as being particularly challenging.*



What (if anything) are you basing this opinion on?


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## Latrade (22 Jan 2010)

Brianne said:


> In order to tackle what is basically dishonesty and theft which reduces the amount payable to genuine claimants and gives everyone involved a bad name,we have to act. Talk is cheap but people who commit fraud are guilty of crime. Here's what you do.
> The link should take you to the site of the Irish Insurance Federation which has a page dealing with fraud.
> [broken link removed]


 
The IIF basically give up, even with obvious and proven false claims. The Gardai don't take action and the judges don't take action (such as award costs etc for defending false claims). In effect there is no disincentive to not bring a false/exaggerated claim other than the moral argument and the costs to society.

I've had a couple of direct experiences with false claims, I remember on one occasion we (the employer) had not only witnesses proving it wasn't our fault, but even a representative from the actual person who was at fault stating the claimant had named the wrong party. We still lost and had to pay €30K compensation (for a twisted ankle). Our legal bill was €250,000.

We eventually won on appeal, but still had to cover our own costs for the original and the appeal.


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## MOB (22 Jan 2010)

Latrade said:


> We still lost and had to pay €30K compensation (for a twisted ankle). Our legal bill was €250,000.
> 
> We eventually won on appeal, but still had to cover our own costs for the original and the appeal.



These figures seem ridiculous.   Did you mean to say €25,000 for legal costs?


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