# Over 50% of mortgage holders in long term arrears are paying nothing



## Protocol (10 Nov 2022)

More information:









						Half of those in long-term arrears paid nothing on their mortgage in the last two years
					

HALF of mortgage holders who are in long-term arrears paid nothing to their lender last year and the year before.




					www.independent.ie
				





"HALF of mortgage holders who are in long-term arrears paid nothing to their lender last year and the year before.

Stark new figures from the Central Bank show that most of these accounts where nothing was paid are more than five years in arrears.

No payments were made on some 14,000 mortgage accounts in 2020 and 2021.

The findings suggest that strategic arrears, where people don’t pay even though they could pay something, may be a factor for some of those failing to pay anything on their mortgage.

Some 27,000 mortgage accounts, which representing 21,500 households, are in long-term arrears.

This is despite almost 14 years having passed since the financial crash that saw thousands of people get in the difficulties meeting their repayments."


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Nov 2022)

Understanding Repayment Amounts of Long-Term Mortgage Arrears Borrowers | Central Bank of Ireland
					

This behind the data publication focuses on understanding Repayment Amounts of Long-Term Mortgage Arrears Borrowers




					www.centralbank.ie
				




This is my summary from their figures 


About 12,000 mortgage holders ( with 14,173 accounts) lived free of charge in their homes in 2021


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Nov 2022)

It is a pity that they don't tell us the number of people who have paid nothing at all in, say, 5 years.

Brendan


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## gipimann (10 Nov 2022)

The Irish Times says "the majority" of those who paid nothing are in arrears for 5 years

_The average outstanding balance of accounts making no repayment in 2021 was €240,410 and the majority of these accounts were more than five years in default, the bank said in a report published on Thursday_


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## The Horseman (10 Nov 2022)

Does this not surprise people? We have allowed people remain in properties where they paid nothing for years. 

It begs the question why bother paying.


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## Bank Manager (10 Nov 2022)

100% agree.  One of the reasons why Banks outside the country are reluctant to enter the Irish market...


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## noproblem (10 Nov 2022)

I wonder would the percentage of borrowers not paying their mortgages be similar to the percentages not paying their rent. It's a shocking reflection on who/what we are. Always wanting everything but won't pay for anything. Would possibly be a fair reflection on those who are always shouting, marching and never satisfied.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Nov 2022)

noproblem said:


> It's a shocking reflection on who/what we are.



It's a shocking reflection on the 12,000 who are paying nothing.

It is not quite as shocking a reflection on the rest of us.  But it does say something about our politicians and their failure to behave like adults.

Brendan


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## Purple (11 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It's a shocking reflection on the 12,000 who are paying nothing.
> 
> It is not quite as shocking a reflection on the rest of us.


Where's the clamour to have those houses reposed and sold to people who will/can pay the mortgage?



Brendan Burgess said:


> But it does say something about our politicians and their failure to behave like adults.
> 
> Brendan


The politicians we elect and re-elect.


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## Purple (11 Nov 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It is a pity that they don't tell us the number of people who have paid nothing at all in, say, 5 years.
> 
> Brendan


I know a woman who lives in a large house in the Dublin Mountains who has never made a single mortgage repayment. She's been there 8 years.


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## Purple (11 Nov 2022)

The broader problem of mortgage arrears was covered before.


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## Cervelo (11 Nov 2022)

Purple said:


> I know a woman who lives in a large house in the Dublin Mountains who has never made a single mortgage repayment. She's been there 8 years.



I'll take your one woman and raise it by my brother in-law!!

I have two brother in-laws, the first was and still is a very successful business man whose salary pre retirement was in the high six figures if not low seven figures and now after five years of retirement because he couldn't hack it has a low to middle six figure salary again

My other brother in-law hasn't worked since the early noughties just touching twenty years, if he wanted to work he could but he chooses not to 
He instead has decided to rely on the hand outs that he can beg from family members and the law society, he's a barrister
He has only started to pay for his mortgage in the last couple of years only because he ran out of legal options not to,
but he's not paying for it, the state is as he and his wife are now fully funded by social welfare payments
And what's more shocking and irritating to us onlookers is that about ten years ago he received a small inheritance that would have cleared the mortgage amongst other things but instead paid for house renovations, new kitchen, new car, family holidays and other frivolous stuff

Now on one hand I think it's disgusting and annoying that he is able and facilitated in the way he chooses to live his life 
but on the other hand I'm inclined to take my hat off to him maybe not so much to say "chapeau" but rather the sense of entitlement of this man


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## Rasputin (11 Nov 2022)

Don't pay your mortgage for a year an you are up 24k in the bank tax free (based on 2k a month mortgage), bring that out to 5 years and you have 120k. if you push that out to 10 years, you'd have a quarter of a million. Take the house I don't care, i'll just buy one with cash and still be rent free. Essentially I've I'll never have had to pay either mortgage or rent - suckers .
An extreme situation, but how a system allows anyone to live in a house without paying anything towards it for such long periods is beyond me, and get away with it.


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Nov 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Don't pay your mortgage for a year an you are up 24k in the bank tax free



Only for people with low equity or negative equity. 
Most people now have equity in their homes and they know that if they don't pay their mortgage, this is going to be frittered away.
And most people actually want to stay in their homes.

Brendan


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## blanketyblank (11 Nov 2022)

Our system is wrong if these people can stay in homes and never pay!    It needs changing but we have limp politicians who are afraid to say anything negative about anyone for fear of a vote and until someone new comes along itll just remain so.


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## Rasputin (11 Nov 2022)

blanketyblank said:


> Our system is wrong if these people can stay in homes and never pay!    It needs changing but we have limp politicians who are afraid to say anything negative about anyone for fear of a vote and until someone new comes along itll just remain so.


Well if that someone new is Sinn Fein, it definitely wont change


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## ryaner (11 Nov 2022)

The worst thing to happen in this area was the grouping of the can't pay with the won't pay people. There is a huge difference between the deals being done by those honestly trying and experiencing some bad luck and those who are outright trying to, and seemingly succeeding in scamming the system.


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## dubdub123 (11 Nov 2022)

Wonder what the value of the homes are. Is this more likely for high net worth individuals who have deeper pockets to cut deals years later? A lot of regular punters would ruin their credit rating and not be able to get loans Id imagine. 
Would be interesting to see more of a breakdown. Very annoying though reading this as someone who struggled to emsure I paid morthage paymebts for many years while others lived it up with zero consequences.


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## Delboy (11 Nov 2022)

Purple said:


> Where's the clamour to have those houses reposed and sold to people who will/can pay the mortgage?


Careful now, you might cause a Tsunami!


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## Purple (14 Nov 2022)

Delboy said:


> Careful now, you might cause a Tsunami!


Brilliant!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Nov 2022)

Interesting to see how little of the problem mortgage are left with the banks and so many with the funds



> RCF/CSFs held three quarters of accounts that made no repayments in 2021, but accounted for the majority of LTMA resolutions​RCF/CSFs have played an increasingly important role in the Irish residential mortgage market, holding a significant proportion of PDH mortgages. At end-December 2021, these firms held 14 per cent of all PDH mortgages outstanding, but 65 per cent of LTMA PDH accounts.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Nov 2022)

I'd really love some anecdotal evidence from the banks/funds about the 4,004 mortgages *in over 10 years of arrears and not paying a cent*.

What is stopping them from repossessing here? 4,000 dwellings worth even €200k each is €800m of value they have security over that they are not exercising.


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## ClubMan (14 Nov 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> What is stopping them from repossessing here?


The unwieldy and long drawn out courts process that is very tolerant of those who can't or won't pay?

Brendan used to regularly visit and report on the repossession court hearings but I don't know what's happening there these days.


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## AlbacoreA (14 Nov 2022)

ClubMan said:


> The unwieldy and long drawn out courts process that is very tolerant of those who can't or won't pay?
> 
> Brendan used to regularly visit and report on the repossession court hearings but I don't know what's happening there these days.



I'm not sure its tolerance, or an interest in drawing it out.


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## Allpartied (14 Nov 2022)

Are these all primary principal residences?
There are even more outrageous stories of buy-to let landlords, pocketing the rent, and not paying the mortgage.


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## The Horseman (14 Nov 2022)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news...-than-27000-each-in-unpaid-rent-42143729.html just something for comparison  purposes.


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## blanketyblank (15 Nov 2022)

Wouldnt happen if the money was taken at source _ direct from bank account or source of income _  shouldnt be allowed happen!    Ridiculous


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## lff12 (22 Nov 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Don't pay your mortgage for a year an you are up 24k in the bank tax free (based on 2k a month mortgage), bring that out to 5 years and you have 120k. if you push that out to 10 years, you'd have a quarter of a million. Take the house I don't care, i'll just buy one with cash and still be rent free. Essentially I've I'll never have had to pay either mortgage or rent - suckers .
> An extreme situation, but how a system allows anyone to live in a house without paying anything towards it for such long periods is beyond me, and get away with it.


I think what gets missed is that often this is not the only debt such people are not paying. A significant number of people not paying their mortgage are also missing utilities, business debts, personal loans and other forms of credit.


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## lff12 (22 Nov 2022)

ryaner said:


> The worst thing to happen in this area was the grouping of the can't pay with the won't pay people. There is a huge difference between the deals being done by those honestly trying and experiencing some bad luck and those who are outright trying to, and seemingly succeeding in scamming the system.


Is the issue not so much that the deluge is simply too much for courts to handle?
And we probably need dedicated courts to deal with financial debts, and possibly also personal and small business debts?


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## ryaner (22 Nov 2022)

lff12 said:


> Is the issue not so much that the deluge is simply too much for courts to handle?
> And we probably need dedicated courts to deal with financial debts, and possibly also personal and small business debts?


The courts are backlogged sure, and it is insanely difficult to repossess a house from the won't pay people. The reality should be if someone refuses to pay and not engage, they should be out very very quickly.


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