# The Consumer Voice



## Gen360 (24 Mar 2017)

In the Framework Document it mentions that the steering group must include a "consumer voice". It would be nice to know how many banks have used an internal party as this voice. I can't see how they could be impartial. Although I'm sure every bank has more than a few employees affected who would be brave enough to speak up.

_FRAMEWORK FOR CONDUCTING THE TRACKER MORTGAGE EXAMINATION

2. GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK AND CONTROLS

2.4 The Steering Group membership *must include a ‘consumer voice’ representative*, who may be an internal party._


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## Stitcher (24 Mar 2017)

I would think that Padraic Kissane would be ideal  for this role and consumers should insist on an external rather than an internal consumer representative on the steering committee.


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## Gen360 (25 Mar 2017)

As representatives of us the consumer I think it is only fair that the banks inform us who they are and how we can contact them?


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## PadKiss (25 Mar 2017)

I wrote on Thursday to both the Central bank and the Oirechtas Finance committee asking to be appointed to be the customers voice in the investigation across all lenders. I believe it is fundamentally important to ensure that the results of this investigation will not be that there are a whole batch of account holders who are left wondering what was that all about. For example I note the Redress letters being sent from AIB and the level of pandering to the customers is frankly taking us for fools. Commentary like " we gave you the wrong conditions at the start" but we will live up to them now makes a mockery of their attempt to explain the issues. 'Over 40 different types of issues uncovered by AIB', there is only one issue you did or you didn't take the tracker rate from people. I am sure the meeting held for the signing off of the letters within banks must have made for a very interesting meeting but what I am certain of in reading the Redress letters the last person anyone attending the meetings was concerned about was the customers. When I see the behaviour of PTSB in the Redress Process and especially the Customers Appeals Panel I wonder at times if I wasted the last 8 years. I really begin to wonder is there the willingness of any of these so called banks to resolve the issues, *PROPERLY* .
The attempt to put the big number out there on what has been awarded this week (78 million) conveniently left out that most of it was each customers own money. I have had to hold my words on the matter for the betterment of the investigation but I have read the commentaries on this web site and I really begin to wonder with some, do they really actually believe that our lenders have deliberately taken money by means that were ill thought through (and that is me being nice). All of them I might add. There are other words I could use and I stated before there is not one morsel of regret that I have seen within any of the lenders to date. Their only regret is that each has been caught, but have they really?????????????
The length of time it is taking is of further concern. If the shoe was reversed and we the customers did it the letters would be out within hours and days not months and years. It is linked to profit statements or the sale of a shareholding, guess yourself.!! 
But and its a major but, meanwhile each affected customer has to fund their illegal over charge while everyone of these banks gets ready. But ready for what the defence game on appeals.  
I have spent today doing appeals for affected customers and when i read the impact statements the real horror of what occurred comes through. Nobody seems to care within each bank what occurred. the good people within each bank and there are many, have told me they are afraid to say anything for fear of their own circumstances within the bank. You really wonder is it really a Bank I am talking about here. So I would ask all who choose to read this to start to wake up because I truly believe that the whole matter is only beginning and not ending and there will be matters that will only get true correction in the courts in Europe. The challenge for the Central Bank is great but the commercial weight of these lenders is a truly powerful animal. And they the banks know it. they are holding all the aces. It is truly time to shuffle that pack. 
I have stated before to many of you I will not relent and will on your behalf go where I have to because in my financial business 2 plus 2 is always 4 it is never 3 and will never be 5. 
To quote one directive that appears to be ignored within Ireland 

*"In the case of contracts where all or certain terms offered to the consumer are in writing, these terms must always be drafted in plain, intelligible language. Where there is doubt about the meaning of a term the interpretation most favourable to the consumer shall prevail."

You would think that is clear enough. 
*
_For the avoidance of doubt the customers are the consumers here. Not the Banks.
My message to all affected is to unite together and I will be beginning the Public meetings for each bank in April to ensure that each affected customers has the correct story because you will certainly not learn it from the Redress Letters. 
Best Padraic _


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## Gen360 (25 Mar 2017)

#Padkiss In 2010 When I realised we weren't getting our tracker back, having gone to the branch to complain, written to the bank to complain, called the bank to complain, each time being told no you're not entitled to a tracker we don't do them any more, go away you silly little man you should have thought before fixing - I gave up. Probably like most others and exactly like they knew we would. If you're stuck for a few quid you certainly won't be heading down to the high court. I knew as one person I had no chance.

Then I met Padraic and he gave me some hope. It wasn't just me it was lots of people who had been fobbed off. He said this could take some time, god knows he was right.

Fresh hope in December 2016. It's all going be sorted before Christmas. Oh actually maybe March, oops probably September. Oh look this is really difficult it takes time. Lots of time. And we have to fatten ourselves up for a big shares sale, and close some branches, we're really busy.

Last week while the review dragged on I ran out of money again and I had to go cap in hand to the bank again looking for my payments to be reduced.... come on guys I think I might get my tracker back from you, maybe you would be good enough to help me out in the mean time? I felt like Oliver asking for more....

It's definitely time that all of us silly little customers get together and cause a stink. There are between 10 and 20 thousand, possibly more affected customers. That's a lot of votes. That's a lot of wages that can paid to a credit union instead of a bank. Everyone of us customers has friends and family that can help make our voice heard. This is a scandal of epic proportions that in any other country would have already involved the law.

I would encourage everyone to attend any meetings that Padraic organises. It's time the Consumers Voice is heard.


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## Gen360 (25 Mar 2017)

Before I started my rambling rant I had intended to say it might be worth letting the Oireachtas committee know that we would like them to support Padraic's request to be the Consumer Voice. No better man for the job in my opinion.


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## Stitcher (25 Mar 2017)

I totally agree. We have to take on the banks, and I, for one, would love if it went to the European Courts. I felt duped when I lost my discounted tracker. I should have known there was something wrong. I was the stupid silly one. It was only when I heard about Padraic's work I began to feel I was not alone. I will ask my Dail reps to request  that PK is my consumer representative in any bank committee at the forthcoming Oireachtas meeting.

We need more publicity too. That's what's making it easy for the banks. This is not making big news. Richie Boucher moving on seems to be so much more important!


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## Gen360 (25 Mar 2017)

In fairness to Richie he's done a great job fattening up the goose for for the shareholders. Probably a good time time to get out, before whoever buys it realises they've bought a polished turd. One of fifteen polished turds.


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## Stitcher (26 Mar 2017)

I am smiling here at this turd analogy as back in 2009 when i was so distressed and helpless having lost my tracker, i used to wish that all the top Bank people would walk in dog poo every day, carrying the smell with them everywhere, their cars, their homes, their offices. Polished turds the lot of them with no scruples at all for their customers, whom they treat abysmally.


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## Lightening (26 Mar 2017)

Will also request (sending email to CB an committee members) that Padraic Kissane be the consumer voice. Would urge others to request this to their Dail rep/committee members before the next committee meeting in April. 
_

2.4 The Steering Group membership *must include a ‘consumer voice’ representative*, who may be an internal party._
_
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Need to get this to the media so customers are aware that we need Padraic as our "EXTERNAL voice".   The system here has been wiping our eyes for long enough.

 Look forward to attending Padraic's meetings.  We need to wake up indeed.


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## Mauritius (26 Mar 2017)

What I'm reading here is examples of the true 'consumers voice' which is moving, personal, witty and touching - the real life stories of real people who have been quietly living with this scandal for years. In my opinion, the Consumer Voice is a nominated person or number of people who's lives have been near ruined by this ongoing saga. A single voice or a lone story of survival of an ordinary person impacted can be very powerful when speaking to the media. I wonder why more people haven't spoken to the press.  Are people afraid that by speaking out they might blacken their names with the banks and undermine their chances of getting their tracker back?


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## Gen360 (26 Mar 2017)

#niall morris When and if this is all resolved I would imagine people will be queueing up to express their outrage a the behaviour of the banks and how they have treated them. Until this is sorted it is very hard for someone to discuss publicly very personal issues such a their finances, pressures on their family life etc. We're irish after all and sure everything is great. That is why I believe Padraic would be the ideal spokesman. He knows all the heartbreaking stories and he knows the system.

I think most people would be very wary of putting their own head above the parapet until this is sorted. We still have to deal with the bank and personally my level of trust is already very low. We are still at the mercy of the bank. As part of a group of many people however I would be very happy voice my opinion.


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## moneymakeover (28 Mar 2017)

Fair play to people like notabene who continue to fight the good fight.

By the way to make a bit of noise consider sending an email to

enquiries@central bank.ie

Suggest Padraic Kissane as the consumer voice


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## MsBinky (28 Mar 2017)

I agree, Padraic Kissane would be the  best person for the job,  his knowledge of every aspect is second to none.  That said, playing devils advocate here but would he be considered a conflict of interest given that he understandably earns money from appeal preparing? 

My concern would be that they might use this concern as a reason not to engage him.


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