# Problems with KBC - Deposit account.



## Tintagel (30 Apr 2016)

I seem to be having a lot of problems with KBC. When I opened my account, a mess was made of it. Then when closing the account a mess was made of it.

Whenever I phone them they tell me that they have upgraded their IT systems in 2015 and as a result cannot access my information. They put me on hold for long periods of time. They say they will ring me back. A whole day will go by and then I receive a phone call to say that they haven't located their correspondence and that it will take a few days because it is in their "archives". My account is only 18 months old!

I have received letters from them that make no sense. (For accounts that have not been opened or renewed). Even though I close an account and get a confirmation of this, I also get a letter showing that it has been "rolled over". So I get a letter showing a new term, interest rate etc. even though this account does not exist. When questioned I am told that the "computer" did it and I should ignore them.

This happened 18 months ago when I rolled over an account. I was told it was an IT issue. Then 18 months later it has happened again. I am told it is an IT issue.

Anyone else having similar problems?


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## Boyd (30 Apr 2016)

Nope.

Have you signed up for KBC online banking? If not, do so immediately. If so, can you log into that and see exactly what accounts are open or not open. That should give you a clearer picture of your accounts.


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## Tintagel (1 May 2016)

Thanks. I just had a fixed term account with them. You would imagine that this would be a simple operation. You open the account for a fixed term at a fixed rate. I would receive correspondence at the start and at the end. Except the correspondence that I received at the end is not matching the correspondence that I received at the start. My gross interest has changed. I would understand my net interest changing with changes in DIRT but not my gross. How can I receive a letter at the beginning saying one thing but at the end saying something else. I have not made any adjustments to the account. 

They posted me a form just before the maturity date, asking me what I wanted to do with the balance on maturity. I returned the form with plenty of notice. I then get a letter saying that my account has been closed on the due date and the maturity sum amount. I then get another letter on another day saying that this account has been rolled over for another year. I also get a letter saying what my gross and net interest was, but that is different to the letter that I got when I opened my account. The gross interest has changed. The interest rate was agreed and fixed.

I then phone them and I am put on hold for long periods of time because of IT issues? I then ask to speak to a manager and I am told that they are all at "meetings".


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## Grizzly (1 May 2016)

I have heard that the new computer system is not picking up anything before 2015 in so far as the staff have to log out of one system and then back again to the current system so this may explain putting you on hold or calling you back.

I have also heard that their computer is automatically producing random letters that are not being pulled before they go out to their customers causing all sorts of confusion.

I don't understand why your gross interest should change though.

No excuse for not being able to speak to a manager if the person on customer services is not answering your questions.


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## ardmacha (1 May 2016)

Put in a request, citing the Data Protection legislation, for all correspondence and information they hold about this account.


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## Lightning (2 May 2016)

Tintagel said:


> I just had a fixed term account with them. You would imagine that this would be a simple operation. You open the account for a fixed term at a fixed rate. I would receive correspondence at the start and at the end. Except the correspondence that I received at the end is not matching the correspondence that I received at the start. My gross interest has changed. I would understand my net interest changing with changes in DIRT but not my gross. How can I receive a letter at the beginning saying one thing but at the end saying something else. I have not made any adjustments to the account.



Ignoring the letters for a second, have you manually calculated the net interest payment due? Did it correspond to what you received? This is obviously the most important thing.

KBC have automated postal letter issues. I have got automated letters telling me that I have rolled term deposits when I have not rolled them. I have also got automated letters stating incorrect maturity dates.


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## IsleOfMan (2 May 2016)

CiaranT said:


> Ignoring the letters for a second, have you manually calculated the net interest payment due? Did it correspond to what you received? This is obviously the most important thing.



How many days of interest do you get for an 18 month term. Is it 547?

If their computer generates a letter at the start of a fixed term at a fixed rate, I would have thought that this should not change unless someone inputs a change afterwards?


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## Lightning (2 May 2016)

What was the AER when you opened the fixed term account? Does (amount*AERrate*1.5*(1-.41)) equal what KBC paid you? 

The letter could simply be displaying incorrect data. What matters is what you were paid.


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## mathepac (3 May 2016)

https://ie.linkedin.com/in/*wim*-*verbraeken*-51409310 Write to this guy directly by registered post or ring and say you want to speak to him in person as no-one else seems to be available.


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## SoylentGreen (3 May 2016)

CiaranT said:


> Does (amount*AERrate*1.5*(1-.41)) equal what KBC paid you?



Wow Ciaran what is that formula? (Pass maths Leaving Cert for me) Could you show me what €90k @ 2.05% AER for18 monthe would calculate?

Thanks 
Soy


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## rob oyle (3 May 2016)

90,000*0.025*1.5*.59 = €1991.

Is that roughly what you received?


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## SoylentGreen (3 May 2016)

I got €1616 net?


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## Laramie (3 May 2016)

I think that I will have to go through my correspondence and calculations with KBC. We assume that a bank such as KBC would be getting the basics right? Take nothing for granted.

How can a change to an IT system cause calculations to change?


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## DMcL1971 (3 May 2016)

SoylentGreen said:


> I got €1616 net?



Soylent your figure of 1616 is actually correct. Rob has a small error in his formula, he used 2.5 as the interest instead of 2.05. Also KBC use a 360 day interest period therefore the AER of 2.05 actually becomes 2.02 for calculations.

90,000*0.0202*1.5*0.59 = €1608.93 NET

The reason you actually get 1616 is probably due to the exact number of days in your 18 month period.


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## SoylentGreen (4 May 2016)

Thanks for that. That's a relief. Could you just explain the formula you used in words just so that I can use it myself in to the future based on the example.  Why does 2.05 become 2.02? Regards


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## Kimmagegirl (4 May 2016)

KBC have a complaints procedure set in place. The problem is that you think you have actually logged a complaint but it is often treated as just a query. Insist that it is a complaint. They will contact you in writing in 5 days. Again the problem here is that you may get a letter, not dealing with your complaint. Or they may deal with part of your complaint. They may say that they are investigating. On and on it goes.....
I don't understand why they are having so much trouble locating their OWN correspondence. I had a problem with them. It ended up where I was feeding them with information based on the correspondence that I received from them. I was giving them dates of letters etc. They didn't seem to know about half of them.
Then when all else fails you get the "system error" excuse......


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## cremeegg (4 May 2016)

DMcL1971 said:


> Soylent your figure of 1616 is actually correct. Rob has a small error in his formula, he used 2.5 as the interest instead of 2.05. Also KBC use a 360 day interest period therefore the AER of 2.05 actually becomes 2.02 for calculations.



Is this true. Do KBC calculate interest over 360 days per year rather than 365. Surely that is illegal. 

As I understand it the basis for calculating AER is legally defined and not available for re-interpretation by individual banks. 

Maybe banks can decide how many days there are in a year for themselves and their customers, but it seems most odd.


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## DMcL1971 (4 May 2016)

cremeegg said:


> Is this true. Do KBC calculate interest over 360 days per year rather than 365. Surely that is illegal.
> 
> As I understand it the basis for calculating AER is legally defined and not available for re-interpretation by individual banks.
> 
> Maybe banks can decide how many days there are in a year for themselves and their customers, but it seems most odd.



I don't know why, but KBC are one of the few financial institutions that operate on the basis of a year being a fixed period of 360 days. This is part of their internal procedures. When they advertise an interest rate they are required by law to show the interest rate as an AER (Annual Equivalent Rate) in order to allow comparison to other banks products. Therefore the quoted AER is based on a year being 365 days while their actual applied rate is based on a year being 360 days. Therefore the actual rate applied will always be AER * (360/365).

This definition of a year only applies to calculating this actual interest rate. When annual interest is added to any account it is always for the full year (365 or 366 days) so you are not being short changed any interest. If you open a one year fixed account it is for 12 months regardless of how many days there are in those months or whether it is a leap year or not. Interest is always accrued on a daily basis for the number of days for which an account is open.




SoylentGreen said:


> Thanks for that. That's a relief. Could you just explain the formula you used in words just so that I can use it myself in to the future based on the example.  Why does 2.05 become 2.02? Regards



You can calculate gross interest on any normal bank account using the formula below.
=(AER/100/365)*Principal*(End Date-Start Date)*(1-DIRT Rate)

For KBC accounts you have to use this formula
=(AER*(360/365)/100/360)*Principal*(End Date-Start Date)*(1-DIRT Rate)

On your letters from KBC it should show the exact start and end dates and the exact interest rate applied.
Depending on the exact dates you might get a day more or a day less than exactly 18 months. Also the 2.05 AER when converted will have been rounded, so instead of 2.05*(360/365) = 2.0219178, they may have used 2.02 or 2.025 or 2.03

If you want to PM me the exact start date, end date and rate I can double check it for you.


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## SlurrySlump (5 May 2016)

I queried an interest amount that was credited to my fixed term deposit account. I got a phone call back to state that they made an error of €20+ and would be sending me out a cheque. When I asked, how this happened I was told "system error". I asked for a detailed explanation as to how this could happen and why it was left to me to find out and I heard nothing back. The cheque just arrived in the post despite the fact that I felt the amount of the error was more than the €20. No explanation.


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## pudds (5 May 2016)

I posted this on another thread, I got a letter confirming my dirt exemption on my account and a week later got another letter, confirming that I am subject to dirt as per my request.

Makes you wonder should we have gone near them!


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## SoylentGreen (9 May 2016)

Thanks DMcL1971. I am waiting for KBC to come back to me on this. They said it would take 5 days. We shall see.


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## Monbretia (9 May 2016)

Actually I just got confirmation of a fixed term rollover with them this morning for an account closed over a year ago.  To my shame I did not remember myself that I had switched the money when it matured to Rabo, anyway few weeks ago I got the instructions on maturity letter so I filled it in and sent it off.  Heard nothing so gave them a ring earlier this week, after being kept on hold for at least 10 mins the customer adviser came back and told me that account was closed the previous year on maturity and funds sent to Rabo.  Apparently instruction letter was an error so wasn't obviously going to be acted on (why someone wouldn't think to ring me and explain that when they got it I don't know).

I just thought it was funny on the day as I hadn't remembered myself that I had switched it but lo and behold today arrives me new deposit details for another year maturing in 2017 etc etc but of course nil balance.

A tad inefficient, wouldn't inspire me to invest again with them.


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## Grizzly (9 May 2016)

Monbretia. That's almost unbelievable. So they have rolled over a closed account not once but twice, even though you spoke to them about it and they confirmed that it was closed. This would be laughable if it weren't serious.
If something had happened to you, your executor would be tearing his hair out at this stage.


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## Monbretia (9 May 2016)

Yes, exactly, rolling over an account that doesn't exist any longer.  Well it obviously does as they must not have deleted it off their system, might ring them again tomorrow to ensure I am deleted as I don't think I'll be going with them again.


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## DMcL1971 (9 May 2016)

It sounds to me like it is the letter sending program that is messed up. It seems that all the accounts that have been mentioned are actually working correctly but KBC are sending incorrect letters. This has at least being going on since the start of the year when they failed to send the annual statements. It took 4 months before they sent most of them. Also they still send all their statements separately to the same address, I often get 2 or 3 statements for different accounts arriving in separate envelopes on the same day. What a waste of paper, envelopes, time and money. Particularly when you can already download them.


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## IsleOfMan (10 May 2016)

I see that posts to their Facebook page about this are being deleted very quickly. I wonder if this is the tip of some iceberg?


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## Grizzly (23 May 2016)

Tintagel said:


> Even though I close an account and get a confirmation of this, I also get a letter showing that it has been "rolled over". So I get a letter showing a new term, interest rate etc. even though this account does not exist.


I wonder how these non existent accounts are being treated in their balance sheet?


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## SoylentGreen (25 May 2016)

SoylentGreen said:


> Thanks DMcL1971. I am waiting for KBC to come back to me on this. They said it would take 5 days. We shall see.


 Update. Well they wrote to me after 5 days and said that they were investigating my complaint and this might take another 20 days. The 20 days are up this week. It seems that they will take the full 20 days, it would have been nice if they made a bit of an effort and got back to me earlier.


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## Tintagel (26 May 2016)

This is getting weirder. Following on from my opening post I have now received from KBC deposits section, a Certificate of Interest for my account stating that I received "nil" interest for the year 2015. I had an 18 month fixed term account maturing in early 2016.
Were they technically right is sending this out to me?


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## DMcL1971 (26 May 2016)

I don't know but they may be obliged to send an annual certificate of interest even when none has been paid.

Yesterday I received a new 2015 annual statement for one of my accounts. This was sent because the previous statement had displayed the wrong interest rate on it although the interest applied was correct. It certainly seems that their process for sending letters is an a mess but at least the actual accounts are correct.


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## DMcL1971 (26 May 2016)

Tintagel said:


> This is getting weirder. Following on from my opening post I have now received from KBC deposits section, a Certificate of Interest for my account stating that I received "nil" interest for the year 2015. I had an 18 month fixed term account maturing in early 2016.
> Were they technically right is sending this out to me?



And the postwoman has just delivered a letter through my door. I have now also got a certificate of interest for an account which returned no interest in 2015.


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