# Child support - after new marriage



## Sophia57 (8 Oct 2006)

Can anyone answer this question - if the father subsequently marries someone else, but continues with maintenance, big part of child's life etc., is the mother entitled to go to court to have the new spouse's salary taken into account and the maintenance raised on this basis (not cos of inflation or anything)?

I ask because of a newly- married couple I know where the guy has a daughter from a previous short relationship. He has always supported the child and she stays with them every second weekend, goes on hols etc. Out of the blue the mother wants the new spouse's salary and property to be taken into account as she reckons the father is better off financially than he was before the marriage. The child is 13. The new spouse has just had a promotion in work, the guy's salary is the same.
Thanks


----------



## purplealien (8 Oct 2006)

Spouse has nothing to do with the equation - that's seen as her money. If the father has the same salary, i don't see why he should have to give over any more money. The mother should be happy that the father wants to be involved in his childs life and takes her on holidays etc.


----------



## pat127 (9 Oct 2006)

purplealien said:


> Spouse has nothing to do with the equation - that's seen as her money. If the father has the same salary, i don't see why he should have to give over any more money. The mother should be happy that the father wants to be involved in his childs life and takes her on holidays etc.


 
Does the following suggest that it might be otherwise:-

"When the court is deciding whether to make a maintenance order in respect of a child, it will consider the income, earning capacity, property and other financial resources of both parents. It will also consider whether either parent has other financial responsibilities such as a spouse or other dependent children."

Ref:


----------



## Sophia2457 (10 Oct 2006)

Hi purplealien and pat,

Thanks for the replies. I had read the info on oasis but it seemed vague to me on the point I'm trying to clarify - ie is the news spouse's earnings taken into account if the mother of the child applies to the court for an increase in maintenance.

Purplealien - are you speaking from a knowledge of a similar situation or a legal background? I tried to clarify this with the Citizens Information and they said (this on the helpline) 'surely that couldn't be the case! Sure nobody would marry anyone with kids if that were so!'. Hardly a definitive answer!!!!

The mother reckons the father is now better off financially now that he's married this other woman with a good job, and wants a piece of it. I can only report what I'm told, but it appears that there's still a lot of resentment on her side that the relationship between them didn't work out when the child was born 13 years ago, and I can't help but feel this is arevenge-based move. I may be wrong.

I do know the father adores the child, lavishes time, attention and money on her, has never missed a birthday or big occasion..I feel sorry for the new spouse as she never saw this coming - that her earnings would go to the upkeep of his child, who she loves dearly but still!

Maybe they should seek the advice of a solictor as the mother has already been told by one she has every right to have the new spouses's earnings and house taken into account when the amount of maintenance is determined.

At least the child doesn't know yet this wrangle is going on. Hope she never does.

I do know that when my brother in law died suddenly about 10 years ago, it was discovered he had just fathered a child with a young girl. Terrible shock for my sister, but in relation to the above when a maintenance order from his estate was sorted out by the court for this child, my sister's earnings were taken into account, which she (understanably) bitterly resented - she has 3 children by her husband. The law is not always fair, it seems.


----------



## mf1 (10 Oct 2006)

In theory, new partners salary assets should not  be taken into account. In practice, his circumstances have improved. The major issue however is not the state of his finances it’s whether he fulfils his legal obligations to support his child. If he already does, he will not be ordered to pay any more but the ex partner can still seek a maintenance order against him. She will file details of her financial circumstances with the Court and she will also have to demonstrate to the Court that she requires more money for the maintenance of the child – she is not entitled to any maintenance for herself if they were never married. He will then have to file details of his financial circumstances – and it is a deeply intrusive exercise – and it is likely that any joint bank accounts, assets etc etc will be taken into account. 

Like most of these cases, it will be judged on its merits. 

mf


----------



## Sophia2457 (10 Oct 2006)

Thanks mf1 - that's extremely helpful.

The point as you say is 'whether he fulfills his legal obligations to support the child'. Is there a law one can refer to to see what these obligations are? He's provided money, holidays, clothing, Christmas and birthday funding, special occasion financial support (like confirmation & communion), particular needs like schoolbooks, mobile phone, other equipment - I don't think he's ever refused anything he was asked for.

As well as being a big part of her life in terms of time and parenting.

He had no assets before his marriage - apart from his job. The house is the wife's (though he now pays towards the mortgage) and the deeds are in her name. The car is her's - with him as named driver.

They don't have much and they're really worried this will adversely affect them, though they want to do the right thing by the child. The mother is demanding he pay for the annual foreign holday she and the child take, as well as taking the child on holidays himself. It just seems too much. She has a very good job as legal secretary.

You can tell they're relatives - I know too much!

One last question - if he happened to lose his job, I suppose the wife will have to pay the maintenance (and all the rest) for him? They would be really badly off then, though it is a worst-case scenario.

Thanks for your patience!


----------



## mf1 (11 Oct 2006)

Cases are all different. I've seen them from one extreme to the other so for instance: 1. Serious   shortage of money - everyone just doing the best they can to 2. No shortage of money - one party being greedy and one party being mean. 

This case probably comes in somewhere in the middle. If you did a very crude calculation of the "running costs" of the child and if he is paying  half, its hard to see a Judge ordering him to pay more. Foreign holidays are not regarded by the Courts as necessary expenses - clothes, childminders fees, school fees, etc.,etc. are. 

If he lost his job, he would apply for a reduction in maintenance. Simple as that. 

There are no simple answers. If she is determined, let her take her application to Court, let him deal with it and the likelihood is that she will not get more than a nominal increase in maintenance . 

mf


----------



## mo3art (12 Oct 2006)

There is no legal obligation on the father's new wife to support his child from a previous relationship afaik.  The obligation technically is on both parents to support their child(ren) equally.

The father's means alone would be taken into account.  So if he is cohabiting which he obviously is, then the bills will be split in half and only his portion of the bills will be used when calculating his means to fund child maintenance.

I have not heard of one situation where the new spouse's salary is taken into account when calculating child or spousal maintenance if that's any help to you!


----------



## Sophia2457 (13 Oct 2006)

Thanks, mo3art - it certainly makes sense that what he has to pay out in his home situation would be taken into account and it would he assumed he pays half of all bills, running costs and mortgage (which is the case) 

I can see why mf1 said it is a deeply intrusive exercise - revealing all this personal information in open court. I hope the mother is satisfied with the increase he has just offered her - waiting to hear - and doesn't go to court as it sounds really stressful for all concerned.

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that the fact she is in a new relationship may be a factor. Maybe the new partner is insisting he will not support the child financially if he moves in and she wants to reassure him by getting as much as she can, down to holidays paid for. I do know the child is now suddenly available extra weekends and is being sent to visit relatives and friends around the country other weekends - eg put on a train to Galway (at 13, female and alone!) but that's another issue.

Have you much experience of these sort of cases, mo3art?


----------



## mo3art (13 Oct 2006)

I'm familiar with some cases like this.
It is extremely intrusive alright.  Unfortunately where there is a previous marriage or child(ren), most people wave goodbye to privacy & are signed up to struggles for 18 years and beyond!


----------



## purplealien (13 Oct 2006)

most people wave goodbye to privacy & are signed up to struggles for 18 years and beyond![/quote]
When do you stop paying maintenance.If the child decides to go to college at the age of 18 are you meant to pay half his fees untill he's finished?


----------



## mo3art (14 Oct 2006)

Technically until the child is 18 but if the child is in full time education, the non-custodial parent _can_ be expected to pay maintenance until they are finished.
At that stage though I would assume that any child in full time education would be more than able to speak up for themselves and what they need!


----------



## Perplexed (16 Oct 2006)

A child is entitled to maintenance up to the age of 23 if in full time education.

I know I was told by my solicitor when I got separated that my ex's partner did not come into the equation at all financially. Her income could not be counted & neither was she a dependent so she could not be allowed for in his expenses either. I'm not sure whether this is correct or not but I presumed my solicitor knew what she was talking about. Also I was told that we could equally be held responsible for maintaining the children, even though his salary is more than 3 times mine.

Just a warning here. My legal expenses worked out at €17,500 which was a hell of a lot more than I expected so if any reasonable agreement can be worked out it might end up cheaper.

This guy you mention seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously regarding  his daughter. My ex (after a marriage of 25yrs & 3 kids) has spent 1 night with his children  in the last 4 yrs, as for a holiday, that idea has never been mentioned.

I think this woman is a bit of a chancer - & normally from my own situation I would tend to favour the womans side.


----------



## Marlen (16 Oct 2006)

Only the fathers income and/outgoings are taken into consideration here...plus any savings, he would have to provide a vouched statement of means....and any increase or change in his circumstances are looked at ......the woman has to also provide the exact same, the judge will then make a decision based on this evidence.  if one party does not agree it can be appealed and go from district to circuit court level and then back to district and back to circuit......and so it can continue ive been there i could write a book on it


----------



## Helen (17 Oct 2006)

Perplexed said:


> Also I was told that we could equally be held responsible for maintaining the children, even though his salary is more than 3 times mine.


Maybe in theory but not always in practice are primary carers are expected to provide equally for the children. A friend of mine has gone through this and the mother has remained in the home earning 0 while the ex husband pays for everything, mortgage/child support/spousal support.. and they are only in their 30s with school going children so it's not like she couldn't go out and earn. He was never told to expect that she would provide equally (or at all) so thinks he got a good deal in not having to sign over the house aswell.


----------



## pokerwidow (18 Oct 2006)

I don't mean to butt in but...If the father applies for joint custody then surely he does not have to pay maintenance, only the big bills like school fees would have to be halved. 

 I know that joint custody would not work in all cases but if the two houses were within a reasonable distance of each other and as long as the child(ren) could get to and from school safely then this could work out.  Just an idea, would like to hear the thoughts of parents who have gone through a divorce or separation.


----------



## Sophia2457 (27 Oct 2006)

Thanks again for all the replies - it does seem that the new spouse's earnings would not be taken into account, hope so anyway.

The father's name is not on the deeds of the spouse's house (they just never got around to doing it) and she tells me they don't have a joint bank account. It seems it would be best to leave things as they stand, then. They're assessed as individuals for tax - again something they never got around to doing!

So far the mother has accepted the rise in maintenance, though very grudgingly, I believe. They can only wait and see if she wants to take it further.

Pokerwidow - joint custody just wouldn't work as the two homes are about an hour or so away from each other. It would be a huge upheaval in the child's life to have to split her time between two homes and almost impossible to get her to school on time from the father's house. At her mother's she can walk to school. She would have to find a whole new set of friends for the week she spent at her father's. As it stands she enjoys coming over at weekends (and being spoiled )

Let's hope the mother will eventually lose her resentment and be glad the child has such a consciencious father, which is what the little one deserves.


----------

