# Under investigation: living with partner while claiming lone parents & rent allowance



## summer09

Hi, 
I am looking for a little advice. 

I am under investigation for living with my partner whilst claiming benefits, wrong I know but we literally had no choice, heavy debts, partner(builder) laid off. 

I am not looking for any judgements from others, lets face it if I get done, then I will be judged (professionally speaking) and will have to face my punishment.  

My partner looks like he may be able to get a job at the end of summer, and I will have been claiming lone parents and rent allowance (albeit wrongly for approx 1 year). 

Does anybody know in this climate if they will throw the book at me (eg take me to court, throw me in jail) or will I as a first time offender (and last!) and take this into consideration and will I be able to pay off the benefits I was not entitled to. 

I have read some posts on this forum and I am really not interested in anybody slating or slagging me I have done wrong, we as a family have it it tough (like many others I know) but really want to put this right and I am worried that if I am prosecuted I will end up in jail, and what this will do for my family. 

Looking for helpful advice only.


----------



## elcato

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

Well given that you want to address it then I guess you should come clean and tell them your problems, I would imagine that they will be happy to come to an arrangement for you to pay it back. You mention 'if you get done'. Have you not told them or are you hoping they wont find out ? Presuming the first I would tell them, come clean and arrange payment and they should be Ok with that.


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

Not personally been through this but a friend has what happened with her was she was informed that her rent allowance was going to be stopped because she was living with a partner. There was no invite to come in and speak to them, they had done their investagating and had all the proof they needed. In the letter it said she could appeal the situation if she wanted to and gave the details. She didn't because she knew she was caught out. But she though ah well i still have my loan parents we'll survive. If you dont appeal within the 28 ( i think ) then they assume that you've admitted that you were living with someone. Then they inform, in your case the loan parent that your rent allowance was stopped no reply for appeal. So then you get a letter from loan parents saying your payment has stopped. 

When this came through she know she was in trouble, she tried then to appeal but it was too late for the rent allowance. She did 4 months later get an appeal date for her loan parents, which she said was the worst ordeal of her life. In a room with 4 other people all staring at her throwing all this edvidence at her, that she couldn't denie. For those 4 months she recieved nothing from anyone. 

In the very first letter she was told they could make her pay back all of the over payments. However they never did contact her again about this. It worked out to be a very high figure. 

A year later her and her fella split up, she really was a loan parent that needed loan parents allowance and rent allowance. She went down to the local SW office, got a ticket waited for an hour to be in there for 2 mins to be told " your not getting a thing" 

She moved back into her parents and i lost contact with her so i dont know what happened after that. 

As previous poster said, you said "IF i get done" 

Have you admitted to them that you are indeed living as a couple? Or are you planning to say that your not. If they didn't have the evidence against you then they wouldn't of written to you to tell you. 

Come clean and tell them. If you are both out of work at the moment they you will be entitled to claim as a couple and get rent allowance to help you. Lie and mess them around you could end up with nothing. 

I have never heard of anyone being taken to court or put in jail. There over crowed at the moment as it is, which is why 300 of them are being released early!!!

I would talk to citenzen's advice and get there help. You dont say when your partner was laid off, if they do request that you pay the money back, which is probably more likely given the situation the country is in compared to a few years ago when my friend wasn't asked to pay it back, then it might reduce the amount, as even as a couple you would of been entitled to help. I dont know if they would do this but it's something to look into anyway, it might help.


----------



## summer09

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

Thanks for your constructive replies.  This whole experience is a nightmare, one in which I wonder if it will ever end.  A lot to think about and I guess it is now up to my partner and I to put our affairs in to order and sort out.  I am going to try to make an appointment with the Social Welfare Department and take it from there.


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

Thats the best thing that you can do. 

It will end and i'm sure everything will get sorted for you. 

good luck.


----------



## Bronte

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

If you claimed something you were not entitled to you will have to pay it back.  I'm not sure if this can be done in instalments or by a lump sum.  I don't think there is any interest or penalties but I imagine your file will have a big red mark from now on and you will always be treated with suspicion by social welfare but I may be incorrect on this.


----------



## Smashbox

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

I would think that Bronte is correct from what I have heard. There has been a lot of this in my local court (reading in the papers) and usually they expect the money to be paid in full and upfront, not in installments.


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

What would happen then if you couldn't pay it all up front? 

When you add up rent allowance and loan parents for a year it would come to around 20k i would imagine. 

Wouldn't know about everyone else but from what the op has said the reason they did claim illegally is because they couldn't survive on what incomings that had. How can you expect someone to pay back 20k, 15k on even 10k upfront when they have no money coming in.


----------



## elcato

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

As I understand it Rent allowance is thru the health board and Lone parents allowance is Social welfare. You need to sort out both. First go to whoever is investigating the matter and tell them your story. You may well have been entitled to rent allowance (albeit at a lower rate) anyway. You would also have been entitled to JB or JA so it would be just the extra part you would lose. I would try to sort out one first and then deal seperately with the other but tell which ever one who is not investigating that you no longer live alone.
Best of luck


----------



## Smashbox

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*

Sam, I'm not saying I expect it to be paid back, but there has been a lot of cases in the courts lately and I am going by a similar experience of my neighbour.

He was told he had to have the money in court on the day.


----------



## niceoneted

*Re: Under investigation: living with partner while claiming lone parents & rent allow*

We have some dealings with SW fraud in my work place and what normally happens to those caught out is that an amount is stopped from any payments they do get on a weekly basis. EG if person is in receipt of say 3 different payments 1 they should be getting another maybe that is more than they should be getting and the 3rd is the correct payment. Payment 1 is stopped, payment 2 is adjusted and an amount stopped from this or payment 3 for the amounts overpaid to date.


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*



Smashbox said:


> Sam, I'm not saying I expect it to be paid back, but there has been a lot of cases in the courts lately and I am going by a similar experience of my neighbour.
> 
> He was told he had to have the money in court on the day.


 
I know you wern't saying that hun it was what you heard. 

Did you neighbour manage to get all the money for when he was in court? Would be hard enough with out that added pressure as well.


----------



## ajapale

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*



samanthajane said:


> I know you wern't saying that hun it was what you heard.
> 
> Did you neighbour manage to get all the money for when he was in court? Would be hard enough with out that added pressure as well.



This post doesn't make any sense.  Perhaps you could edit it?
Thanks
aj
mod


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Getting welfare benefits you weren't entitled to*



ajapale said:


> This post doesn't make any sense. Perhaps you could edit it?
> Thanks
> aj
> mod


 
what part to you doesn't make sense? I've re-read it a few times and to me it makes sense....but it would do cause i wrote it.


----------



## Smashbox

*Re: Under investigation: living with partner while claiming lone parents & rent allow*

I know what you meant. Yes, the man had the money on the day, it actually happened last week.


----------



## samanthajane

*Re: Under investigation: living with partner while claiming lone parents & rent allow*



Smashbox said:


> I know what you meant. Yes, the man had the money on the day, it actually happened last week.


 
Oh thank god you understood what i meant, i dont need to re-write it. 

Good that he had the money with him on the day. 

Still interested in what would happen if you went to court and didn't have all the money. What could they do to you if you did have all the money? I'm assuming that the judge would have to order instalments. What other choice would there be? Throw them in jail?


----------



## wandereron

Did anything ever come of this case ?
I'm in a similar situation at the moment and want to repay the amount but I'm frightened out of mind in case I end up in jail.
What I did was wrong and I know that but I want to make amends and put this whole mess to bed.
Thanks,
Wandereron


----------



## Sansan

I honestly hope the judge finds the biggest book he has and goes up a stepladder to throw it at u, as a father of 2 with another one on the way, my wife does not get 1c for social welfare nor do I, yet still have to see a big chunk of my basic wage been taken in tax to keep con artists in their comfy little bubble,I fully support genuine cases getting it but not cheats,  I don't even do overtime anymore as it's not worth it and god knows I could do with it, I have no pity for you,and if you are in a position to pay it back why did you claim it, let's be honest here, if you were not caught you would not be asking how to repay it. You got caught and the game is up, just like you took what you were given from the state, take what the state is about to give you now, and don't expect an easy ride because the law has to and will show no pity.


----------



## Welfarite

It is impossible to say what line a judge will take in any given SW fraud case; they are getting tougher these days and all SW cases where the overpaid amount is over 5k are sent for consideration for prosecution. In saying that, not all cases end up in court; if you repay a substantial part of the monies, you may avoid a court appearance or get a suspended sentence. 
It is better to voluntarily admit to the fraudulent claiming and agree weekly repayments/lump sum repayment. They mightn't prosecute if youa re seen to be facing up to the issue (but no guarantees, fraud is fraud)


----------



## Moral Ethos

Speak to a solicitor before talking to anyone.


----------



## adm2006

Sansan said:


> I honestly hope the judge finds the biggest book he has and goes up a stepladder to throw it at u, as a father of 2 with another one on the way, my wife does not get 1c for social welfare nor do I, yet still have to see a big chunk of my basic wage been taken in tax to keep con artists in their comfy little bubble,I fully support genuine cases getting it but not cheats,  I don't even do overtime anymore as it's not worth it and god knows I could do with it, I have no pity for you,and if you are in a position to pay it back why did you claim it, let's be honest here, if you were not caught you would not be asking how to repay it. You got caught and the game is up, just like you took what you were given from the state, take what the state is about to give you now, and don't expect an easy ride because the law has to and will show no pity.



How incredibly judgemental. I work and pay taxes but I also have sympathy for people who make mistakes.


----------



## Capricorn 1

Unfortunately, this type of abuse of the system seems to be rife.  As a landlord, most of the tenants I have had on rent allowances (lone parent's etc.) have had their partners living with them.  Some of my friends who are letting properties have also found the same.  The country is broke and the taxpayer is footing the bill for all of this.  I blame the government for creating such a scheme and there doesn't seem to be the political will tackle it.  I doubt there is the manpower in the Department of Social Protection to tackle the enormity of the problem.


----------



## callybags

Why don't you report them?


----------



## Sunny

callybags said:


> Why don't you report them?


 
Probably because the rent payments end up in his pocket.


----------



## Welfarite

Capricorn 1 said:


> Unfortunately, this type of abuse of the system seems to be rife. As a landlord, most of the tenants I have had on rent allowances (lone parent's etc.) have had their partners living with them. Some of my friends who are letting properties have also found the same. The country is broke and the taxpayer is footing the bill for all of this. I blame the government for creating such a scheme and there doesn't seem to be the political will tackle it. I doubt there is the manpower in the Department of Social Protection to tackle the enormity of the problem.


 
Report them.


----------



## Complainer

Sansan said:


> as a father of 2 with another one on the way, my wife does not get 1c for social welfare nor do I


So you don't get the monthly child benefit payments for your children?


----------

