# Do I need to name relatives in my will?



## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

I'm planning to leave a sum of around €200,000 to my sister and her family.  If I simply name my sister in my will, I presume she will pay Inheritance Tax on the excess over her threshold of €49,682. 

But she has a husband and three kids.  At present, her three kids are aged 7 and under.  If I specifically name the three kids in the will I understand each of them also has a €49,682 threshold and her husband also has a threshold of €24,481 so that would exempt the whole lot?  

Do I need to / can I name the individuals separately, including the kids in my will?

Thanks.


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## dewdrop (17 Jul 2007)

would strongly advise you should get the services of a solicitor....money well spent.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

Thanks dewdrop - I will be using a solicitor but I'd like to have my ideas reasonably straight in my head before I go, rather than formulating plans on the fly while in the solicitor's office.


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## terrysgirl33 (17 Jul 2007)

Marianne, it sounds like you do have a good idea of what you want (to leave money to your sister and her family), you just need to talk to a solicitor about the best way to do it IYKWIM.  

Is there any chance your sister will have more children?  My concern would be that you make a will, your sister has more children, and you never get around to changing your will, cutting out a niece or nephew.  Since we have children ourselves, we worded the will to say we wanted our estate divided equally between them, thus accounting for all the children we might have without rewriting our will.


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## ubiquitous (17 Jul 2007)

Marianne said:


> At present, her three kids are aged 7 and under.  If I specifically name the three kids in the will I understand each of them also has a €49,682 threshold and her husband also has a threshold of €24,481 so that would exempt the whole lot?



You'd better get her permission before doing this. As a parent of young kids myself, I would be angry if someone bequeathed them the guts of €50k apiece without my knowledge for fear they would spend it in the pub rather than studying when they are older.

This is one of the many issues you need to discuss with a solicitor.


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## terrysgirl33 (17 Jul 2007)

Marianne, you're welcome to leave the money to my kids if you want .

Maybe someone else knows better than me, but I *think* the solicitor we saw would have been happy to advise us, and draw up the will at a later date when we had made up our minds about everything.  As it happened we had no difficulties and did it there and then.  I also found he was very good at taking us through the various 'what ifs', most of which we had thought of, but it was good to know what the legal position is.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

Thanks for replies. 

I would be surprised if my sister has more kids, but it's a possibility. I'd have to see if I liked any future offspring before adding them to the will.  Joking, of course - I'd make sure to change the will immediately if any more nippers appeared.

Interesting point ubiquitous - hadn't considered that angle. I hadn't really intended to let them know about my will but perhaps I may need to reconsider. In your opinion, would you be annoyed if somebody left your kids money with a proviso that it would be held in trust for them (with you as trustee), until they're, say, 21?

Does anyone know the answer to the tax angle, which drove the initial query - is naming the individuals separately more tax-efficient than naming a family in general? Is the latter even possible?


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## ubiquitous (17 Jul 2007)

Marianne said:


> In your opinion, would you be annoyed if somebody left your kids money with a proviso that it would be held in trust for them (with you as trustee), until they're, say, 21?



Yes, but that's only me. I may feel differently when my kids are seven.

For what its worth, if you don't mind me saying so, you are really wasting your time posing these questions here. You really need to discuss the ins and outs with a solicitor, as everyone else does in this type of situation.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

> For what its worth, if you don't mind me saying so, you are really wasting your time posing these questions here.


 
I'd have to disagree.  In the space of two hours I've picked up several opinions I consider useful.


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## ubiquitous (17 Jul 2007)

Marianne said:


> I'd have to disagree.  In the space of two hours I've picked up several opinions I consider useful.



You still have to see a solicitor. And by focussing on issues raised here (including my own tuppence-worth) that may or may not be relevant, you run the risk of unnecessarily clouding your own approach to the issue in advance of receiving advice.


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## zag (17 Jul 2007)

I think it is well worth getting user input here - I know the feeling of being in a solicitors office listening to the options provided and having to decide on the fly about issues which are only raised there and then.  It is far more worthwhile to have input from people who have had similar experiences so you go in with more background knowledge than you otherwise would have.

I also agree that you could possibly get sidetracked by some discussions here, but I still think it is worthwhile asking here first.

In terms of asking permission from your sister first - I don't think that most people would do this.  When they are writing a will, they are planning for the disposal of their estate.  Unless there is serious cause for concern about what the recipient would do with the money (i.e. likely to become an alcoholic and abandon spuse and children upon receipt) then most people would see a bequest in a positive light and not be offended or upset by it.

I don't know the answer to your taxation question unfortunately.

z


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## ubiquitous (17 Jul 2007)

Just to clarify, there should be no need to worry about having to decide on the fly in relation to issues raised during a meeting with a solicitor. The normal practice (based on my own experience of 2 such meetings with different solicitors to date) appears to be that the solicitor discusses relevant issues with the customer, takes outline instructions on that basis, prepares a draft will, sends this to the customer to read and to suggest changes. This iteration can repeat a number of times until everything is sorted. It is only after the customer is satisfied that the draft needs no further amendment that it is signed.


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## pc7 (17 Jul 2007)

just one thing what happens god forbid and all that if you did pass away and your sister had split with her hubby before you got a chance to update the will (you wouldn't want him having a few bob) reckon leave it all to your sis and if she pays tax let it happen with a bit of luck its all a long way off


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## simplyjoe (17 Jul 2007)

Someone please answer the question vis a vis the tax. I am interested to know the answer.


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## droileen (17 Jul 2007)

Not your relative but your children (legimate or otherwise) may have a valid claim on your estate, if you do not provide for them, if it can be shown that they are dependant on you - up to aged 23, if in full time education.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

At the risk of hijacking my own topic, I've said already that I will be making the will with the help of my solicitor.  But I still feel that posting on Askaboutmoney is useful as it gives me some food for thought from people who have experience and/or useful opinions.  

I consider my thread no different to the many threads in other forums seeking advice on pension planning or mortgages etc.  Most will ultimately seek professional advice when carrying out the transaction, but will have been given useful pointers first on Askaboutmoney.  Isn't that the point?    

Anyway, while my solicitor is a very competent professional, I cannot expect him to be able to come up with every possible scenario for the task I set him.  Hence the further value of getting different opinions from different people here first.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

droileen said:


> Not your relative but your children (legimate or otherwise) may have a valid claim on your estate, if you do not provide for them, if it can be shown that they are dependant on you - up to aged 23, if in full time education.


 
Thanks for this - yes all necessary obligations have been met more than adequately.


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## Marianne (17 Jul 2007)

pc7 said:


> just one thing what happens god forbid and all that if you did pass away and your sister had split with her hubby before you got a chance to update the will (you wouldn't want him having a few bob) reckon leave it all to your sis and if she pays tax let it happen with a bit of luck its all a long way off


 
Thanks for this post.  I might include a clause that stipulates that if they've split, the money otherwise earmarked for him goes to a hit-man instead.


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## Gordanus (18 Jul 2007)

In my will I had (have - I'mm still alive ) the money held in trust till they were 25 .......but that was remembering my own youth & immaturity. (I would have liked to say 30, but felt that might be a bit mean)


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## pc7 (18 Jul 2007)

you could always pop in a claus that if they are in college they can access it, they would have a ball being loaded in college


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## HappyGillmor (18 Jul 2007)

In brief. If you specify the names of the beneficiaries they will benefit from their individual thresholds. Threrefore it will be passed on without them paying any inheritance tax. 

...solicitor still needed. Hope this answers your (simple) question.


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## Marianne (19 Jul 2007)

Thanks HG.  That answers it.


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## RainyDay (20 Jul 2007)

pc7 said:


> you could always pop in a claus that ...



Would that be considered to be a Santa Claus?


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## Perplexed (21 Jul 2007)

Well done Marianne. It's good to see someone thinking things through....Taxman has already gotten his share of your earnings. It's good to pass it on in a tax efficient way.


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## dodo (21 Jul 2007)

pc7 said:


> you could always pop in a claus that if they are in college they can access it, they would have a ball being loaded in college


If you a serious then I think that would be sad ,not all people want or have the brains to go to College I'm thinking, So maybe they should get more as people who go to college on average have a better chance of earning more money. So they would not need it as much as someone who does not go to college. I take it you are not letting even your sister know what you plan to do in your will as this could make things a bit awkard.


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## Ned_ie (23 Jul 2007)

Gordanus said:


> In my will I had (have - I'mm still alive ) the money held in trust till they were 25 .......but that was remembering my own youth & immaturity. (I would have liked to say 30, but felt that might be a bit mean)


 
Gordanus - Froma  tax point of view this is not the best way to do it - I would gt advice on this. There may be additional taxes if they are not to get funds until 25 payable by the Trustees of the trust. check it out.


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## Ned_ie (23 Jul 2007)

Marianne

You could have the will written thus - I bequeath the sum of 50k to my sis, and the sum of 150k to be split equally among the children of my sis then living. this covers off the possibility of additional kids while excluding the brother in law in case he does a runner!

this ensures that your sis pays no tax and assuming there are three kids alive (it sounds awful but it does happen) they should have no tax either.

hope this helps


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## Vanilla (23 Jul 2007)

Ned_ie said:


> Gordanus - Froma tax point of view this is not the best way to do it - I would gt advice on this. There may be additional taxes if they are not to get funds until 25 payable by the Trustees of the trust. check it out.


 

It depends on the type of trust. Also a trust can be broken by the beneficiary once the youngest entitled reaches 18.


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## Ned_ie (23 Jul 2007)

Again it depends on the type of trust doesn't it Vanilla? I would still get tax advice on it.


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## Vanilla (23 Jul 2007)

There are certain additional income taxes on trusts. But unfortunately there often isnt a credible alternative. So while a client should be advised of the potential tax it shouldn't put them off necessarily.


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## Ned_ie (23 Jul 2007)

True - I agree. However, it sometimes happens that the people setting up these trusts are not qualified to give tax advice and as such they are more often than not set up incorrectly with the result that their tax efficiency is greatly reduced.


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