# Isn't the Standard of Driving in Ireland Terrible?



## horusd (13 Apr 2011)

I thought driving standards might have improved post-tiger. No chance;  using mobile phones, haring thro amber & red lights, pushiness and cute hoorism aplenty. 

One guy took the biscuit the other day, he was driving, on the phone, and took his other hand off the wheel to wave to some friend on the road. It's one thing to make a mistake, but it quite another to be careless, ignorant and stupid on the roads. And as for taxi's...don't get me started! I always drive defensively, I like my car so I don't abuse it with sharp or fast maneuveres. I would love to be a traffic cop for a day!


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## RonanC (13 Apr 2011)

I had a guy in a 11 reg VW Passat *REVERSE *up towards me on the M50 on ramp at the Red Cow this morning!! Couldnt believe it,I slowed down, flashed and pointed at him the direction he had to drive. He wasnt happy at all. He obviously took the wrong ramp, but reversing on a main road is stupid and dangerous.


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## Betsy Og (13 Apr 2011)

I can get over the rudeness - I see plenty of courtesy as well, its the downright dangerous that annoys/worries me. Mainly overtaking, people surfing along a line of traffic like it'll make much difference, overtaking coming up to a bend, trying to overtake too many in one go.

While the main roads are now fairly good, basics like widening roads to make a lane/waiting area for right turns are all too rare, so you get backups and people speeding towards backed up traffic.

Also, on national primary roads I think there should be a requirement to develop 2+1 stretches at intervals, saw it working in NZ, you get signs saying "Relax, there's an overtaking lane after 5 miles", so normal folk wont take chances on overtaking.

I think speeds have come down due to the camera vans, I know mine has. One hopes they'll be reasonable on the painfully slow 50km stretches I've to go through - i.e. if you're on 57km they'd let you off. Oddly enough one of the main dangers I encounter are slow moving vehicles like tractors at rush hour or people doing 60km on the open road, there should be a minimum limit as well, they are just obstacles otherwise.


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## Sunny (13 Apr 2011)

And I am willing to bet that the vast majority are not young learner drivers.


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## Sunny (13 Apr 2011)

Also why dont people when they have an accident where no-one is hurt or injured move their bloody cars to the side until the guards arrive. An entire motorway was brought to a standstill this evening for a fender bender at a roundabout.


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## bullbars (13 Apr 2011)

We pale in comparison to the continent. I live in the middle east. Every day driving is a death wish at times. reversing back up a motorway after missing an exit is common. Overtaking on the hard shoulder of the fast lane, if there is an accident they still think they shouldnt be held up and will drive anywhere and anyway to get by you, tail-gating, indicators are an optional extra rarely used, entry and exit lanes on roundabouts are anyones guess. Its a joy driving on Irish roads!


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## RMCF (13 Apr 2011)

Yes, yes it is.


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## Ancutza (13 Apr 2011)

Hungarians are the worst and most ignorant drivers in the EU bar none.  I worked for a period in Africa where, when asked which side of the road I should drive on, my english colleague replied 'Don't know mate.  I've only been here for 6 months'.  The Hungarians make the africans look like saints.

I learned to drive on motorways in the UK & Germany.  The english are unfailingly polite and good drivers.  The germans are unflinchingly correct.

The biggest problem on irish motorways is that no one moves out to allow merging traffic and, equally dangerously, loads of idiots come to a COMPLETE STOP on the 'on' ramp.  One being a function of the other I suppose.

In the last 12 months I've driven 65,000km.  Give me the UK every day of the week.


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## horusd (14 Apr 2011)

Strangely, I lived in Vienna and assumed Austrians would be very correct drivers. Blame internal racial stereotyping ! Not a snowballs, as soon as they got to the motorway, they became Starsky and Hutch. Speed limits were optional apparently. The scariest time I had was in a Taxi in Thailand, the car was snowwhite and so was I when I got out of it.

 In Ireland there seems to be ignorance of how to drive, aggressiveness, and a lack of simple courtesy. I make a point of allowing 2/3 drivers into lane, or out of sideroads on my 6 mile journey to the city on the basis that courtesy is infectious. I feel good about doing it,I feel more relaxed and hopefully the drivers I let in will do the same. I almost always stop at amber lights.


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## Sunny (14 Apr 2011)

Ah the old amber lights which of course in this Country means floor it!


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## Firefly (14 Apr 2011)

Sunny said:


> Ah the old amber lights which of course in this Country means floor it!



It used to...nowadays amber just means carryon, when it goes red you floor it...drives me nuts. Don't think people actually the damage they can cause just to save a few seconds. I'd like the UK's traffic lights here when they go from red to amber to green...that would stop the amber gamblers.

Stopping on a yellow box does it for me though.


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## Tintagel (14 Apr 2011)

The guy in the light blue/silver Ford Mondeo who speeds along on the bus lane (N11)pretending he is special branch or something. You see him every morning and evening.


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## RonanC (14 Apr 2011)

Ah the slowped (moped) on the M50 this morning sitting in the middle lane doing about 70kph heading Northbound from Red Cow junction and then decides to move over into the far right lane (Lane 3) and continued to sit there.

What planet are these drivers on?


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## PetrolHead (14 Apr 2011)

Apparently this is a daily occurrence.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Driver-risks-deadly-pile-U-turn-motorway.html


I find the quality of driving in Ireland severely lacking. Here are some basic rules of the road that I've picked up over the last few years - 


It seems customary to defend to the death the 15ft of road in front of your vehicle. 
Wo-betide anyone that might even think about pulling out in front of you even when you are in a stationary queue of traffic.
Never wave in thanks to any other driver who may have done you some form of courtesy. 
Completely ignore the concept of lane discipline at all times. 
Completely ignore the concept of utilising particular lanes at junctions to aid in your direction of travel. 
Completely ignore yellow hatched boxes.
When in a queue of traffic, ensure all side roads are blocked for those wishing to exit or those wishing to enter by turning right.
Traffic lights (all colours) present you with suggestions rather than instructions (applicable also to pedestrians). 
Take absolutely no notice of anything else that's going on around you apart from that within the aforementioned 15ft in front of your vehicle. 
If you are in any doubt about the way you need to go, your course of action at a particular juncture or the direction of your life in general, stop right where you are and take a few minutes to consider things. It's OK, everyone around you will stop with you and wait for you to sort your life out.
At the slightest accident remain exactly where you are, don't clear the carriageway and call the Gards out of an intrinsic fear of being in some way confidence-tricked by the other driver.
If you drive a Yaris, Micra or anything Japanese over 15 years of age then do not exceed 65kph... ever!
(Clause to above rule - if the Japanese car over 15 years of age is a Civic, Sylvia or any other Grey Import then remove the shocks, springs and most of the exhaust, drive at 10kph in towns and V-Max everywhere else).
If you are purchasing a new car it must be specced in some shade of silver (or if you are particularly daring, black).

I could go on but I'm loosing the will to li...........


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## PaddyW (14 Apr 2011)

Yesterday morning while coming into Dublin Port and just starting to pull away at a green light for ourselves, a truck flew through a red light at about 50 miles an hour.. If that wasn't bad enough, while coming to a roundabout the driver of said truck decided to leave his braking nice and late.. Trailer started to jack knife and he was only stopped by thumping into the back of a Tougher oil lorry. This seemed to unfaze the driver of said Tougher oil lorry as he carried on as if a truck hadn't just thumped into the rear of his oil lorry and almost caused a huge explosion!


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## DrMoriarty (14 Apr 2011)

I believe truck drivers have a kind of tacit code about these things.

Personally, I just close my eyes and accelerate slightly, in order to put as much space as possible between me and the hazard.


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## liaconn (14 Apr 2011)

The ignorant so and so exiting the M50 at Templeogue on Tuesday evening who drove so close to me he was nearly in the back seat, ignored me putting on the brake lights, then ignored me driving really really slowly to warn him to back off and just stayed glued to my bumper, then pulled around me into the Tallaght lane waving his hands furiously and snarling through the window at me. All I can say is I pity the poor unfortunates who have to live or work with the ignorant tosser.


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## truthseeker (14 Apr 2011)

liaconn said:


> The ignorant so and so exiting the M50 at Templeogue on Tuesday evening who drove so close to me he was nearly in the back seat, ignored me putting on the brake lights, then ignored me driving really really slowly to warn him to back off and just stayed glued to my bumper, then pulled around me into the Tallaght lane waving his hands furiously and snarling through the window at me. All I can say is I pity the poor unfortunates who have to live or work with the ignorant tosser.


 
He sounds like the one who sideswiped me on the same exit and then managed to get stuck in a lane he didnt want to be in, ended up behind me again and practically drove into my boot, all the while shaking his fist furiously at me and flashing me.


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## Firefly (14 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> He sounds like the one who sideswiped me on the same exit and then managed to get stuck in a lane he didnt want to be in, ended up behind me again and practically drove into my boot, all the while shaking his fist furiously at me and flashing me.



I love guys like this....I usually turn around and wave at them with a big cheesy grin.


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## truthseeker (14 Apr 2011)

Firefly said:


> I love guys like this....I usually turn around and wave at them with a big cheesy grin.


 
I personally have a penchant for the hazard lights in this situation. Oh yeah - youre backing off now buddy because you think there is something wrong - there is something wrong - YOU!!


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## Firefly (14 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> I personally have a penchant for the hazard lights in this situation. Oh yeah - youre backing off now buddy because you think there is something wrong - there is something wrong - YOU!!



We like hazards....even better is to slooowwww right down.


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## Bill Struth (14 Apr 2011)

Funny how the angriest, most ignorant drivers on the road are middle aged men. Who says experience makes you a better driver? Certainly not in all cases.


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## liaconn (14 Apr 2011)

In fairness, I've met lots of ignorant drivers in their twenties and thirties, and not all of them male.


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## emmt (14 Apr 2011)

Woman on M1 Monday morning...sitting in outside lane during late rush hour c. 8am...2 cars between me and her.
First car undertook her in the slow lane after waiting for her to pull in
Secondcar undertook her in the slow lane after waiting for her to pull in

Next came me.

I thought to myself that since 2 cars had undertaken her, she might get the idea and pull in and if she was as bad a driver as she was demonstrating, she would check her mirror so I stayed behind her

Waited a while and in frustration I gave a single flash of  the lights. (I was driving a Land Rover so she could certainly see me!)

She pulled in, I passed and what did she do...
she began to flash furiously at me and then pulled back into the overtaking lane....Give me patience.



> It seems customary to defend to the death the 15ft of road in front of your vehicle.


And I think this is why so many people stay out in the overtaking lane cos they find it so hard to get back into it to do a legitimate overtake cos those already in the lane wont let them in...


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## Bill Struth (14 Apr 2011)

Another one...

Why do people call the overtaking lane 'the fast lane'?

Surely they are all fast lanes?


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## RonanC (14 Apr 2011)

emmt said:


> First car undertook her in the slow lane after waiting for her to pull in
> Secondcar undertook her in the slow lane after waiting for her to pull in


 
There is no such thing as a 'slow lane' in Ireland. There is a 'Driving Lane' which is Lane 1 and then an 'over taking' lane which is Lane 2 or 3 if on a 3 lane Motorway. 

Just for the record. What did you do yourself after passing her out? Did you pull back into the 'Driving Lane' ??


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## emmt (14 Apr 2011)

I was so careful about calling it the overtaking lane and you caught me out on the slow lane! Apologies for using the incorrect terminology...



> Just for the record. What did you do yourself after passing her out? Did you pull back into the 'Driving Lane' ??


Yes, I couldn't/shouldn't be giving out about someone hogging the ''overtaking lane' and then abuse it myself!!! 

I always pull back in. Its much better to be comfortable in the slow lane rather than sitting in the outside lane with cars tailgaiting you cos you're holding the whole thing up.

But then of course, you have to be aware that there is actually traffic behind you and I think a lot of people either arent aware of whats going on around them or dont care less...


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## liaconn (14 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> He sounds like the one who sideswiped me on the same exit and then managed to get stuck in a lane he didnt want to be in, ended up behind me again and practically drove into my boot, all the while shaking his fist furiously at me and flashing me.


 
There are some serious nutters out there driving cars. It's frightening really.


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## roker (14 Apr 2011)

Lane discipline at junctions when you are turning left or right, a lot of drivers are in the middle blocking the other lanes


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## shesells (15 Apr 2011)

People pulling into and blocking yellow boxes turning LEFT drives me mad...I've had a row through the window with more than a few of these.  Just because it's a box and you're turning doesn't mean you can stop in it...you must be turning RIGHT and stopping in it can't block the progress of other traffic! Rant over....lol


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## Leper (15 Apr 2011)

I have never claimed to be the perfect driver. I try to be courteous as often as possible without being stupidly courteous. I cringe when I see people abusing the bus lane, stopping in yellow boxes, racing through red traffic lights, using all roads like they were in Mondello, etc.


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## PetrolHead (15 Apr 2011)

Leper said:


> It is of extreme satisfaction to me some years later attending their funerals caused by their reckless driving.




That's a bit strong.....


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## Sunny (15 Apr 2011)

Leper said:


> It is of extreme satisfaction to me some years later attending their funerals caused by their reckless driving.


 
Wow! Do you go up to grieving relatives and tell them how satisfied you are to see their dead loved one get what they deserved? Must be lovely to read the card you leave!


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## liaconn (15 Apr 2011)

Leper said:


> I have never claimed to be the perfect driver. I try to be courteous as often as possible without being stupidly courteous. I cringe when I see people abusing the bus lane, stopping in yellow boxes, racing through red traffic lights, using all roads like they were in Mondello, etc.
> 
> It is of extreme satisfaction to me some years later attending their funerals caused by their reckless driving.


 
Seriously, you get satisfaction attending a funeral of a young person killed by their own foolishness? You don't see the wasted life or the grieving parents or fatherless children?


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## Deiseblue (15 Apr 2011)

Leper said:


> I have never claimed to be the perfect driver.  I try to be courteous as often as possible without being stupidly courteous. I cringe when I see people abusing the bus lane, stopping in yellow boxes, racing through red traffic lights, using all roads like they were in Mondello, etc.
> 
> It is of extreme satisfaction to me some years later attending their funerals caused by their reckless driving.



Jeez , Leper !

Penalty points or a driving ban might be more appropriate ?


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## Chris (15 Apr 2011)

I generally agree that drivers in Ireland are not very good, but from experience they are not the worst by far in Europe, not that that should excuse things. I believe the driver training system here is a joke, but it is getting better. I don't think learner drivers should be on the road without a qualified instructor in an instructors car, and I think that while 12 mandatory lessons is a start it is not enough.

Thing that drives me mad the most is drivers that accelerate as soon as you start overtaking them and proceed to narrow the gap to the car in front of them. 
Worst experience was a fully laden truck driver overtaking into oncoming traffic. When he got behind me he was sitting on my bumper ignoring my brake lights. I was doing 110 in a 100 zone (I know, how bold of me), so I decided to teach him a lesson. Just before a the road turned two lane up hill there was a turn off. I pretended to turn off and slowed down to 30 and then decided to continue on. Because the truck was fully laden and the road was uphill it was going to take him a couple of miles to get back up to speed after all the cars behind him had overtaken him again. Reported hi to the nearest guarda station, who said they would have a word with the driver. Doubt anything ever came of it.


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## Complainer (15 Apr 2011)

shesells said:


> People pulling into and blocking yellow boxes turning LEFT drives me mad...I've had a row through the window with more than a few of these.  Just because it's a box and you're turning doesn't mean you can stop in it...you must be turning RIGHT and stopping in it can't block the progress of other traffic! Rant over....lol


Just to be clear - it doesn't matter whether you are turning right or left. The rule is that you don't block traffic that would otherwise be free to proceed.


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## gebbel (15 Apr 2011)

Irish drivers are not bad in my opinion. Like everything, there will be exceptions. Motorway lane discipline would be my biggest gripe. Perhaps some of this can be attributed to the fact that some people here are just not that used of them yet. Driving on the motorways in the UK (I did a half circle of the M25 last weekend) is a much different experience to here...because in the main overtaking lanes are just that...and are not hogged by slow moving traffic.


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## micmclo (15 Apr 2011)

No worse then other countries

Take a trip to Rome. Macho latin culture, if you're stuck in traffic blow the horn and wave your arms madly.

T shirts, shorts and flip flops are a scooter riders clothes of choice. Some nasty road rash for sure. 

It's very relaxed and courteous in Ireland by comparison.
Big issue with using motorways though.


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## horusd (15 Apr 2011)

A friend of mine learned to drive in Italy, he was advised to take the rear-view mirror down so as not to get distracted or panicked by the road rage going on behind him!


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## PetrolHead (15 Apr 2011)

Can have a bit of a rant about the new '12 lessons' rule thats been introduced?

(Mods - please separate to new thread if this is felt to be off topic)

What a stupid idea! Whoever came up with this should have their job taken away from them!

The test is the test.... not the number of lessons an individual has. If the Govt is concerned about the standard of driving in the country make the test more difficult and introduce mandatory retests at expanding and contracting intervals dependent on driver age and experience along with medicals for drivers over a certain age. After all... if a car needs to be NCT'd to make sure its still fit to be on the road, surely the 'nut behind the wheel' should be assessed for capability too.

Introducing a madatory number of lessons does nothing more than secure an income for instructors.... and who tests them, how do we know if they are capable? (And that wasn't a rhetorical question to make a point... I'm actually interested to know).


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## Complainer (15 Apr 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> Can have a bit of a rant about the new '12 lessons' rule thats been introduced?
> 
> (Mods - please separate to new thread if this is felt to be off topic)
> 
> What a stupid idea! Whoever came up with this should have their job taken away from them!


Have you done much research into effectiveness of driver training yourself?


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## micmclo (15 Apr 2011)

They've had CBT and Direct Access training for motorcycle training in the UK for quite a while. And introduced CBT for motorcycles in Ireland and there are approved courses you can do for insurance discounts.

This thread is mainly on cars but I did 12 hours lessons and passed a motorcycle test before I even owned one. 
I think it's a great benefit, you don't learn bad habits and no better way to get started.
What works for bikes can work for cars.


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## JP1234 (17 Apr 2011)

Out for a walk with the dog this morning I was reminded of how almost no-one seems to understand that FOG lights are to be used in the FOG! Out of dozens of cars that passed us I saw only 1 using fog lights, despite thick heavy fog all around. Most had no lights on at all, some had their parking lights on, some had headlights on full beam, most had opted for half beam - ( I know, it's better than nothing at all).

Yet, at night I see plenty of people driving round with full beam and fog lights on.

Isn't it just common sense to realise when and what lights to use in certain conditions


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## Crugers (17 Apr 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> ... for instructors.... and who tests them, how do we know if they are capable? (And that wasn't a rhetorical question to make a point... I'm actually interested to know)...



The only Grade3 fault in the Signals section of the driving test score sheet is for "Beckoning Others". In other words, AFAIK, it is possible to fail your test by beckoning others just once!

I personaly observed an instructor of a well known driving school doing multiple instances of 'directing traffic' from the passenger seat of the car while teaching a student how to drive... That should have given the student a good grounding for future life in that she can always refer back to it in the future to justify her use of beckoning others by saying "My instructor always did it!"
JC wept!


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## PetrolHead (18 Apr 2011)

@Complainer, micmclo - I'm not knocking proper tutelage or questioning the efficacy of paid-for driver training. The point I am making is that the legislation presents a solution from the wrong direction.


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