# House sale,shortfall payment



## kenny1964 (2 Dec 2015)

I need advice if possible as i do not know what to do next.My wife had to give up her house and went the route of voluntary surrender to the PTSB about a year ago.Due to personal reasons she had no choice but to choose this option.
Since the house has now been sold she has now received a letter from the PTSB telling her that there is now a shortfall of 60,000 euro,and now to contact PTSB office.
The mortgage was only in her name when the house was purchased,as we only married a few years ago.
Our current situation is we now live in a rented house with a 3yr daughter in a rural area.We don,t have any savings or assets.She works full time on a average wage,and drives a car worth very little,and pays child care.
Will i be included in any payment or arrangement as we are now married etc.
Do we contact the PTSB or what do you recommend for the best route to go down.
We do want to address this matter as soon as possible as its now putting strain on our marriage and worrying us sick.
I also work full time 12hrs a day and 2hrs travel to Co Antrim,After i pay for fuel and sometimes pay to stay in the north each month,and my own bills etc i don,t have much to spare.I am unable to get a job closer to home so have no option.
So please any advice would be grateful in this matter.


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## LondonBoy (3 Dec 2015)

Kenny1964

The debt outstanding if you where not on the mortgage with PTSB is nothing to do with you as an individual
DO NOT ..DO NOT .. include your salary or assets in any disclosure to PTSB, its none of their business

Of course advise and help your wife but stay at arms length with regard your income


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## kenny1964 (3 Dec 2015)

LondonBoy said:


> Kenny1964
> 
> The debt outstanding if you where not on the mortgage with PTSB is nothing to do with you as an individual
> DO NOT ..DO NOT .. include your salary or assets in any disclosure to PTSB, its none of their business
> ...



Thanks for your reply,what do i disclose if PTSB ask how much i contribute to house etc?


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## LondonBoy (3 Dec 2015)

Its not how much you contribute its only your wife's income + expenditure is of any of PTSB busines

Is you wife earning any income


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## kenny1964 (3 Dec 2015)

LondonBoy said:


> Its not how much you contribute its only your wife's income + expenditure is of any of PTSB busines
> 
> Is you wife earning any income



Yes she works full time,only as a sales assistant in a big retailer,so not really big earnings.


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## 44brendan (3 Dec 2015)

Have no real worries about this Kenny! given that your wife is on a low salary and she owns no property there is no real risk of any legal action being effective against her. I recommend that she sends back a brief outline of her current financial circumstances (excluding your income etc) to PTSB together with some copy wages slips and state that she has no ability to contribute to the shortfall. They are likely to huff & puff for a while but it is doubtful that they will progress to Legal action given the financial circumstances of your wife. Even if they did it would be no big deal if her earnings are very low!


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## Bronte (3 Dec 2015)

44brendan said:


> Have no real worries about this Kenny! given that your wife is on a low salary and she owns no property there is no real risk of any legal action being effective against her. I recommend that she sends back a brief outline of her current financial circumstances (excluding your income etc) to PTSB together with some copy wages slips and state that she has no ability to contribute to the shortfall. They are likely to huff & puff for a while but it is doubtful that they will progress to Legal action given the financial circumstances of your wife. Even if they did it would be no big deal if her earnings are very low!



Naturally I agree with that seeing as you're in the business. But it is an awful pity that after that the bank can't write to her and tell her we see your circumstances and in those circumstances we are closing our file and you will hear nothing further from us.


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## 44brendan (3 Dec 2015)

Unfortunately that's not the way a bank does business Bronte! realistically it would make no sense for any creditor not to try their utmost to get some kind of settlement from a debtor. Even those who ostensibly have nothing to give can often get a relative to put together some funds to settle an outstanding debt.


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## Waver (3 Dec 2015)

In these cases PTSB usually look for a standard financial statement every 12 months to see if there is a possibility of payment. If the person is under the RLEs they just write to them again in 12 months


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## kenny1964 (3 Dec 2015)

44brendan said:


> Unfortunately that's not the way a bank does business Bronte! realistically it would make no sense for any creditor not to try their utmost to get some kind of settlement from a debtor. Even those who ostensibly have nothing to give can often get a relative to put together some funds to settle an outstanding debt.



Thank you for all your replies.
To be honest we have no one to turn to for a offer t


Waver said:


> In these cases PTSB usually look for a standard financial statement every 12 months to see if there is a possibility of payment. If the person is under the RLEs they just write to them again in 12 months


Thanks again for all your advice.We may be in a position to offer a small payment per month but only approx 100-150euro Max which would be our limit before struggling to live.Would an amount of this be thrown back,or if accepted how long would this payment last for.


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## Waver (3 Dec 2015)

Honestly, I think they would take your €100 per month forever if it is offered. I would try to avoid that if possible.

Do a Standard Financial Statement on your wife's income only and see what it shows. You can use half the RLEs for your family and half the rent.


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## Bronte (4 Dec 2015)

kenny1964 said:


> We may be in a position to offer a small payment per month but only approx 100-150euro Max which would be our limit before struggling to live.Would an amount of this be thrown back,or if accepted how long would this payment last for.



On a debt of 60K, no way should you do this.  But I do sincerely advise you to see if you can get rid of this debt for once and for all.  Ask the Irish insolvency service, they have loads of staff twiddeling their thumbs.


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## Bronte (4 Dec 2015)

44brendan said:


> Unfortunately that's not the way a bank does business Bronte! realistically it would make no sense for any creditor not to try their utmost to get some kind of settlement from a debtor. Even those who ostensibly have nothing to give can often get a relative to put together some funds to settle an outstanding debt.



I know that 44 and I understand them trying for a settlement but after that there should be an end point.  And that end point when everything has been exhausted should be simple and cheap.


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## 44brendan (4 Dec 2015)

44brendan said:


> Have no real worries about this Kenny! given that your wife is on a low salary and she owns no property there is no real risk of any legal action being effective against her. I recommend that she sends back a brief outline of her current financial circumstances (excluding your income etc) to PTSB together with some copy wages slips and state that she has no ability to contribute to the shortfall. They are likely to huff & puff for a while but it is doubtful that they will progress to Legal action given the financial circumstances of your wife. Even if they did it would be no big deal if her earnings are very low!


Please note the above advice Kenny. You should not utilize your own funds to fund a debt that is unsustainable. As a previous poster said the bank will take your money but it will have no impact on the amount due. Affordability of your wife based on her income/outgoings is the main issue here. If she has no affordability then advise her to take the above advice and resist the urge to make some token payments which will have no ultimate effect on the debt.


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## kenny1964 (4 Dec 2015)

44brendan said:


> Please note the above advice Kenny. You should not utilize your own funds to fund a debt that is unsustainable. As a previous poster said the bank will take your money but it will have no impact on the amount due. Affordability of your wife based on her income/outgoings is the main issue here. If she has no affordability then advise her to take the above advice and resist the urge to make some token payments which will have no ultimate effect on the debt.[/QUOTE
> Maybe a silly question but-
> What do i answer if the PTSB etc ask,do i contribute to the household each month?surely it will not look right if i say no.


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## elcato (4 Dec 2015)

It's not their business whether you contribute or not. Just tell them you are unemployed.


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## Setanta12 (4 Dec 2015)

It's not their business whether you contribute or not. Just tell them you are unemployed.+1


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## Kenlouth (7 Dec 2015)

elcato said:


> It's not their business whether you contribute or not. Just tell them you are unemployed.


Thanks again for advice.I will wait till christmas is over then contact the PTSB to tell them the situation,and await there reply.Depending on there response i will keep you informed of my actions.


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## grenzgebiet (7 Dec 2015)

Frankly, it is appalling that many posters advise someone not to pay off a debt.
While it may not be the debt of the OP, his wife has incurred a debt and should pay this off. She has not been declared bankrupt and still owes €60000.


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## cremeegg (7 Dec 2015)

grenzgebiet said:


> Frankly, it is appalling that many posters advise someone not to pay off a debt.
> While it may not be the debt of the OP, his wife has incurred a debt and should pay this off. She has not been declared bankrupt and still owes €60000.



This is an interesting point, around which I have tried in the past to get a discussion going.

Unless a person has substantial assets, private debt in this country is effectively unenforceable, even where it is secured. If a creditor goes to court and wins their case they will get a payment order based not on the debt but based on what the debtor can afford to pay. If they can only afford some small amount that is what they will be ordered to pay. The whole edifice of personal in effect debt relies on creditors voluntary repayment. The threat of a damaged credit record is the one small lever creditors have, and this is less significant than many people seem to think.

Lots of hardheaded people know this and take advantage of it. Lots of, dare I say, innocents (not referring to this thread) come on to AAM worried that they will suffer serious consequences if they don't pay back their loans. Should posters outline the real situation, or should only people who don't know better repay their loans.

If you borrow money in Ireland there is little compulsion to pay it back. Everyone should be in possession of the same facts.

Your moral decisions are a different matter


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## Stephen Curtis (15 Dec 2015)

In my experience there are 2 ways about dealing with this:

1) Refuse to give any information (as is completely your right). Then the bank, in calculating your wife's ability to make repayments on the shortfall, will allow her 50% of their reasonable living expenses i.e. they assume that she is a 50% contributor to the family. 

2) If you earn less than your wife then it might be worth telling them this as they will consider this in determining how much they think she can pay towards the shortfall. 

If you earn more than your wife option 1 will reduce the size of the payment they request.


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## Kenlouth (16 Dec 2015)

Just keeping you updated,my wife contacted PTSB and explained she will be unable to pay shortfall as requested. PTSB has now asked to to fill in a financial statement and return.


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## 44brendan (17 Dec 2015)

She should do this and it should be relevant to her income and capacity to repay. As per Stephens post above bank will allocate 50% of household expenditure to her.
The moral issue of a debt owed is really only relevant where capacity to pay exists. If there is no capacity to repay and no unencumbered assets which can be sold then the only option available to the institution is to write off the debt.


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## Kenlouth (29 Mar 2016)

UPDATE,My wife filled in a financial statement for PTSB as requested 3 months ago,showing no extra funds at end of each month.We have heard nothing back since.
My wife might now have the option to take reduntancy from work,if taken would all have to be paid to cover the debt owed.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Mar 2016)

Yes, your wife owes €60,000. If she gets money, she has the moral and legal obligation to pay her loan.

Having said that, she does not have to take the redundancy package. 

She should contact ptsb and explain the situation.  They might do a deal. For example, they might accept half the lump-sum in exchange for writing off the shortfall.

Brendan


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## Kenlouth (29 Mar 2016)

many thanks for your reply,only at the stage she might be offered it.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Mar 2016)

A perfect time to talk to ptsb.   

They might go for some money now.

But get it in writing. 

Brendan


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## Kenlouth (2 Apr 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> A perfect time to talk to ptsb.
> 
> They might go for some money now.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reply,
My wifes reduntancy would not be a large amount only Approx 9000,would PTSB do a deal on such a small amount if the full 9000 was offered to them?
We just hate it hanging over our heads causing my wife stress etc,No word from PTSB since SFS was sent 3 months ago.
Would anyone know the timeframe of shortfall dealings etc.


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