# "Chartered" - what does this mean in an Irish context



## sun_sparks (8 Sep 2006)

Hoping that an accountant or physiotherapist can tell me what the "chartered" in their title actually means in an Irish context. 

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, it means:

chartered
• adjective Brit. (of an accountant, engineer, etc.) qualified as a member of a professional body that has a royal charter.


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## quinno (8 Sep 2006)

Traditionally, charters were recognized by royal approval in the UK and many Irish professional bodies still use this recognition.

I work in engineering, so I can only comment on the engineering / construction professions. In the case of Engineers, Irish Engineers (i.e. ones educated in Ireland) are Chartered with Engineers Ireland - the title 'Chartered Engineer' is protected by law here and only those who have the correct qualifications can use such a title. Similarly with surveyors and architects - you get your chartership with the Society of Chartered surveyors / Royal Institute of Architects in Ireland. These bodies have a reciprocal arrangement with the RICS / RIBA (surveyors / architects) in the UK. I am sure it is similar for accountants etc.

Chartered means that you have basically supplemented your academic education (diploma / degree) with experience and done additional exams / interviews (depending on the Institution) to get your chartership. It is the icing on the cake for professional qualifications.


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## slave1 (8 Sep 2006)

from an accounting perspective (ACCA) chartered is as per the defination you posted, given royal charter


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## Gordanus (8 Sep 2006)

Only see a Chartered Physiotherapist!  (don't know if the Irish physiotherapy association is linked with the British)   Statutory registration of health professionals is on the way, and the 'chartered' bit is the professional society setting up safeguards prior to this happening.  At the moment only Doctors and Nurses have statutory registration (means no-body else can give themseves the title 'nurse' or 'medical doctor').   There's no protection for other titles so anyone can call themselves physiotherapist, radiographer, psychologist, social worker etc etc.


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## cork (10 Sep 2006)

slave1 said:


> from an accounting perspective (ACCA) chartered is as per the defination you posted, given royal charter


 
I know in the US - It is all CPAs.

I think the word "chartered" is more common in the connonwealth.


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## bazermc (11 Sep 2006)

cork said:


> I know in the US - It is all CPAs.
> 
> I think the word "chartered" is more common in the connonwealth.


 

Yes indeed its very "english" here is the definition from the ACCA rulebook for members:

*Section 1 Royal Charter and bye-laws*

*1.1 Royal Charter*

Elizabeth the Second by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith:TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME, GREETING!Whereas the Association incorporated under the Companies Act 1929 and known as "The Association of Certified Accountants" (hereinafter referred to as "the existing Association") have by their humble Petition prayed that We would be graciously pleased to grant them a Charter on Incorporation:And Whereas We have taken the said Petition into Our Royal Consideration and are minded to accede thereto:


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## ajapale (11 Sep 2006)

In the case of Chartered Engineers in Ireland the relevant leglislation passed by the Dail is :
*The Institution of Civil Engineers of Ireland (Charter  Amendment) Act, 1969.*

From Engineeersireland.ie



> *Chartered Engineer (CEng MIEI)* The following is the definition of a professional engineer recognised by the  Council of Engineers Ireland and is the definition adopted in 1960 by the  Conference of Engineering Societies of Western Europe and the United States of  America (EUSEC):
> 
> 
> "A professional engineer is competent by virtue of his/her fundamental  education and training to apply the scientific method and outlook to the  analysis and solution of engineering problems. He/she is able to assume personal  responsibility for the development and application of engineering science and  knowledge, notable in research, design, construction, manufacturing,  superintending, managing and in the education of the engineer. His/her work is  predominantly intellectual and varied and not of a routine mental or physical  character. It requires the exercise of original thought and judgement and the  ability to supervise the technical and administrative work of others."
> ...


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## extopia (11 Sep 2006)

So it's a club, then?


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## bazermc (11 Sep 2006)

extopia said:


> So it's a club, then?


Yeah seems to be, you pass your exams and get your relevant experience and your in the door provided you stay out of trouble you are a member for life, but judging by the recent tribunals you would need to be very badly behaved before you get kicked out


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## ClubMan (11 Sep 2006)

What findings were there against any member of a chartered organisation in recent tribunals?


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## extopia (11 Sep 2006)

Were there not a number of chartered accountants involved in moving funds into and out of the Ansbacher Banks for example ?


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## ClubMan (11 Sep 2006)

What *specific *findings were made against members of chartered organisations by any of the recent tribunals?


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## extopia (11 Sep 2006)

Well Charles Haughey, for instance, was a chartered accountant. The McCracken Tribunal concluded that Haughey had not told the truth under oath. The subsequent Moriarty tribunal uncovered evidence of payments in excess of £8 million to Haughey by various individuals, of which very little if any was declared for tax.

Need we go on?


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## ajapale (11 Sep 2006)

[broken link removed] the Irish Examiner.



> *Accountants face censure for     role in bankrolling Haughey* _*by Barry O'Halloran
> *_A DUNNES STORES trustee, its auditors, an accountancy firm and one of its     managing partners, face professional misconduct charges for their role in bankrolling     Charles Haughey.
> A committee of inquiry set up after the McCracken Tribunal by the Institute of Chartered     Accountants in Ireland revealed yesterday that two members and two firms have to answer a     case of possible breaches of ethical guidelines, auditing standards and professional     independence.
> The body, chaired by former Supreme Court judge John Blayney, has adjourned to consider     any fresh evidence from the Moriarty Tribunal.
> Since September 1997, the Blayney inquiry has been investigating accountants Noel Fox and     Paul Carty, along with their firms, Oliver Freaney and Co. and Deloitte and Touche.


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## GeneralZod (11 Sep 2006)

I know someone going for chartered engineer status and they don't seem to have to take any exams or validate that they remember what they learned in college. Just as well that.  
Not sure what the relevance to the workplace other than public perception is. 
A professional certification achieved by examination is better for validating real world skills and experience.


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## secman (12 Sep 2006)

HP sauce is by "royal Charter " , it's basically British nonsense and as previously stated is only prevalent in countries where they stuck their noses in !


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## quinno (12 Sep 2006)

eh, no, that's 'by royal appointment', and extends to loads of products such as diverse as cornflakes, mcvities digestives, etc. I think it means the royal household uses / endorses the product. I pay as much attention as if it was endorsed by the Spanish, Dutch or Martian household....

The good thing about some of the Charterships in Ireland is that they are founded and protected by Irish Statute, as in the case of Engineers. Further legislative changes are currently in front of the Oireachtas, in the form of the Building Control Bill 2005, that will extend this legislation to quantity surveyors, building surveyors and architects, in iother words professional titles protected by Irish law.

Getting the chartership at the IEI involves 3 years post-graduate experience as a minimum, the production of an experienced based thesis and examination _viva-voce_ by a panel of Fellows of the Institute. It is not easy at all, and you will certainly draw on what you've learned during your primary degree. Also note that to become a Chartered Structural Engineer, IStructE, there is a formal written exam.

Chartered Engineers are certianly in demand, and can demand significantly higher salaries then non-chartered engineers.


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## ninsaga (12 Sep 2006)

All to getther now.....

_It's fun to charter an accountant
And sail the wide accountancy,
To find, explore the funds offshore
And skirt the shoals of bankruptcy!

It can be manly in insurance.
We'll up your premium semi-annually.
It's all tax deductible.
We're fairly incorruptible,
We're sailing on the wide accountancy!_


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## Glenbhoy (14 Sep 2006)

cork said:


> I know in the US - It is all CPAs.
> 
> I think the word "chartered" is more common in the connonwealth.


CPA's are certified public accountants.


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## Archie (6 Oct 2006)

or car park attendants ....


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