# RTE reporting on Ulster-bank



## michaelg (25 May 2016)

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0525/790892-ulster-bank-portfolio-sale/

Seen this on rte news earlier, Thought it was bias reporting as the news presenter said those in arrears had not been engaging with the bank.
How does he know this ? he's just repeating what the bank said.

In my own case I sent numerous resonable proposals and my loan was still sold on to a vulture, why wasn't I offered the chance to buy it at a discount ?

Inability to pay your mortgage is defined by banks as not engaging.


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## odyssey06 (25 May 2016)

It's got to the stage with RTE that I am surprised when their reports are balanced.


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## elcato (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> In my own case I sent numerous resonable proposals and my loan was still sold on to a vulture, why wasn't I offered the chance to buy it at a discount ?


 With all due respect, reasonable to whom ? I'm sick of listening to this word 'Vulture fund' as soon as any debts are being sold. Debts have been sold for years and will continue to be. That is the nature of business.


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

Elcato , Reasonable to both the borrower and the bank.
You don't think its better to keep people in their homes ? The amount of money tax-payers have and will continue to put into banks over the last few years is sickening , 
What does a bank do in return for the favour , sell your morgage to a vulture at a heavily discounted price and NOT give you the opportunity to buy it at the same price. 
Elcato do you think that inability to pay your full mortgage is the same as "not engaging" ?
With all due respect too, wake up man!


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## elcato (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> Elcato , Reasonable to both the borrower and the bank.


 in your opinion.


michaelg said:


> You don't think its better to keep people in their homes ?


 in certain cases yes. Not if the occupier has no chance of recovery.


michaelg said:


> The amount of money tax-payers have and will continue to put into banks over the last few years is sickening


 Agreed but beside the point.


michaelg said:


> What does a bank do in return for the favour , sell your morgage to a vulture at a heavily discounted price and NOT give you the opportunity to buy it at the same price.


They would have to go through each case one by one which would be way too costly. It's called bulk buying. As I said that's business.


michaelg said:


> Elcato do you think that inability to pay your full mortgage is the same as "not engaging" ?


 Nope. I never said it was but as I said it depends on the situation. Just because one person thinks they are been reasonable does not mean it is.


michaelg said:


> With all due respect too, wake up man!


 Yawn.


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## tallpaul (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> In my own case I sent numerous resonable proposals and my loan was still sold on to a vulture, why wasn't I offered the chance to buy it at a discount ?



Maybe I'm picking you up wrong but if you had money to 'buy' your loan at a discount, why were you not servicing your loan normally?

This seems a sensible enough deal for UB to let someone else have the hassle of chasing underperforming loans and their own balance sheet is tidied up. Staff and resources are then dedicated to existing and future performing loans.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2016)

It's a first for RTE to be accused of bias in this direction. Normally it's the other way around, where they do very soft interviews with borrowers who claim to be engaging and they slam the banks. 

Newstalk shares the same "bias" 

"95% are connected to customers who are not communicating with the bank, and who's properties are on the brink of repossession

...

95% of the mortgages are at least two years in arrears, and the owners are not currently engaging with the bank."


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

Tallpaul, I wish i had money to buy my loan but i don't , i wasn't even given that option, 

why continue to service your loan as best you can if the bank keeps threatening repossession, Its like a poor person throwing what little money they have down a black hole, when their house is repossessed they have no money for any security.

If the bank said if you keep paying us what you can afford, we'll come to an arrangement that would be acceptable, but they dont do that and they tell the Media/RTE that people are not engaging.


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

Brendan i don't believe RTE news is truly un-biased , most countries control the media to various degrees, why any different here, they like to influence public opinion .


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

If they we're unbiased why not interview some of the people who own these debts and ask them about what "non-engagement" means, 
the reporter in the news said it was a fact that people are not engaging, my point is how does he know that 100% ? he simply dosent!
 therefore isn't he being biased in his reporting ?


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

If you knew you were going to be kicked out of your house would you continue to pay rent ?


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> If you knew you were going to be kicked out of your house would you continue to pay rent ?



If that is addressed to me, it has gone over my head. What has a tenant paying rent to a landlord got to do with RTE's alleged bias? 

But in case it's relevant, I would always pay my rent for the period in which I was a tenant, whether my tenancy was coming to an end or not. I presume you would as well?  

Brendan


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

sorry should have been clearer ,
What i mean is, If your poor and were going to be kicked out of your house, would you continue to try and pay your mortgage ?


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## Sarenco (25 May 2016)

Apparently 88% of the loans are at least *three* years in arrears.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ulster-bank-family-homes-sale-2788255-May2016/

Cue the predicable calls for emergency legislation...


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> sorry should have been clearer ,
> What i mean is, If your poor and were going to be kicked out of your house, would you continue to try and pay your mortgage ?



Of course I would?

If I have a debt, I will do my best to pay it.

Michael - we have seen 2500 cases before the courts. We have witnessed 150 or so orders being granted. Only one was paying anything and showed up in court. And her arrears were €85k on a mortgage of €195k so she must have been paying very little.

If UB has issued proceedings against you, continue paying a meaningful amount. They will not get an order for possession against you.

If you stop paying completely, there is some chance that they will get such an order.

The only circumstances where it _might _be appropriate not to pay for a short period is while you are building up the cost of applying for a PIA or building up a fund for the rental deposit.  But you should be very careful about doing that.  And I would probably still recommend paying something every month. 

If you are paying nothing, I have no sympathy for you. 


Brendan


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## Delboy (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> If you knew you were going to be kicked out of your house would you continue to pay rent ?


So strategic default?
Unless you get a deal you find agreeable and then you settle with the Bank.

Win Win for you


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

Brendan
Lets say if i could afford to pay half the amount, wouldn't the bank keep threatening repossession ?
Are you saying i shouldn't take those threats seriously if i pay something meaningful ?


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## michaelg (25 May 2016)

Delboy said:


> So strategic default?
> Unless you get a deal you find agreeable and then you settle with the Bank.
> 
> Win Win for you



What if its impossible to negotiate a deal with a vulture and bank.
Say you pay what you can afford and its then sold to a vulture anyway?
I was advised that a vulture has no intention of doing deals, they want a quick profit and usually try to sell within 5 years.


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## newirishman (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> What if its impossible to negotiate a deal with a vulture and bank.
> Say you pay what you can afford and its then sold to a vulture anyway?
> I was advised that a vulture has no intention of doing deals, they want a quick profit and usually try to sell within 5 years.



What difference does it make to you if it is sold to a vulture, as long as you are paying what you can afford? The vulture fund has as much chance of repossessing your property as Ulsterbank has. Probably even less as the courts might be less sympathetic. Storm in a tea cup?


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2016)

michaelg said:


> Brendan
> Lets say if i could afford to pay half the amount, wouldn't the bank keep threatening repossession ?
> Are you saying i shouldn't take those threats seriously if i pay something meaningful ?



Hi Michael

If you can pay half the monthly repayment, the bank may not be happy, but there is very little that they can do about it.  The County Registrar will just keep adjourning the case. 

If you pay nothing, the Registrar will run out of excuses for adjourning the case, and you may lose your home. 

If legal proceedings have been issued against you, keep paying something. Keep talking to the lender.  Write to them confirming your conversations. Show up in court. 

You would have to be very stupid or very badly advised to actually have an order granted against you.

Brendan


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## dub_nerd (26 May 2016)

Going back to the original post, I thought the RTE report was very biased also ... against the lender. On the one hand, David Hall of IMHO got his usual free airtime, talking about how outrageous the sale of the loans was and how it needed to be stopped immediately. On the other hand, there was never a mention of why Ulster Bank's policy is not to do deals -- presumably because it would increase the number of non-payers even further. Think about it, it's already next to impossible to repossess a property even while mortgage defaulters get free or almost free accommodation for years on end, but now the reward for non-payment would be an additional write-down of the loan amount. Completely crazy stuff. And people then complain that SVR rates are too high, in a country where it is effectively impossible to exercise security over a loan. The whole system is banjaxed.


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## Brendan Burgess (26 May 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> On the one hand, David Hall of IMHO got his usual free airtime, talking about how outrageous the sale of the loans was and how it needed to be stopped immediately.



I saw that on the 9 O'Clock News.  As I said in an earlier post, if there is any bias, it's completely against the lenders.

However, I am not sure that it's bias either way to be honest.  RTE has to report on it.
They report the facts as presented to them by Ulster Bank.
Then they need a comment on this.  Father McVerry and David Hall are always ready to come out with a comment slating the lenders and they were true to form last night.

If you want to know what bias is, listen to Matt Cooper on the topic. It starts at 3.27 [broken link removed].


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## Brendan Burgess (26 May 2016)

Some of the coverage is very interesting: 

* Sold down the river: Ulster Bank customers will see their mortgages sold to circling 'vulture funds' *
http://theliberal.ie/ (press release) (blog) - ‎15 hours ago‎

* Thousand of families face eviction as Ulster Bank follows the State's example selling homes to the vultures *
Irish Mirror - ‎12 hours ago‎

* Calls for emergency legislation to stop Ulster Bank selling 900 family homes *
thejournal.ie - ‎17 hours ago‎

* Families will be 'nuked' in Ulster loan sale - campaigner *
Irish Independent - ‎5 hours ago‎


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## peemac (26 May 2016)

And the EXACT same media people will report on banks excessive variable interest rates.

One of the reason for excessive inerest rates is the inability to repossess homes and cut their losses.

To think any media person "champions" mortgage holders who have not engaged in any way and many are ver 3 years in arrears is just amazing and shows how the tabloid media including the indo have no real interest in proper news, but only intetested in how hyterical a headline they can create.

Sorry, but if someone is paying nothing and not engaging for over 2 years there should be automatic repossession except in very extreme circumstances.


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