# Solicitor Fees w.r.t inherited estate



## Bobby (22 Aug 2005)

My Granparents left an estate to be divided among 7 surviving children of which my father is the executive of the will. The estate is valued at €6million. My granmother was the last to die and stated that the solicitor is to be paid from the estate. However the solititor is claiming 1% of the estate value i.e. €60,000 plus VAT. Having read many postings on this forum concerning how solicitors should charge - it would seem he is counting himself in as the 8th child. Of course I have my own views on what he should be paid but I would like an experts opinion. I can say that the will has been changed several times since 2002 and in addition the will is currently being contested by one family. Other than that I do not know of any extra abnormalities that would lead to this high fee.


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## MOB (22 Aug 2005)

The fee is not especially high for an estate of this size.   Your father has the right to have the fees reviewed;  Without a lot more information, it would be impossible to say whether this would be worth while.   A fee calculated on a percentage basis is much less common today than it used to be, but I don't think 1% sounds hugely excessive.  

In my own firm, I have implemented a practice management package which includes a facility for very detailed time recording.   I have found that in large estates, with many beneficiaries, the fees when charged on a time basis (and at reasonable charge-out rates) can well exceed 1% of the value of an estate of €1.5m - €2m.  A €6m estate would not necessarily involve 3 or 4 times the work,  ( though it well might) but it will certainly involve some extra work.

In short, whatever your views about using a percentage basis of charging, the fees for handling the administration of a large estate could easily come to 1% of estate value.

Incidentally, unless the will specifically states otherwise, your father, as executor, is under no obligation to use this solicitor.


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## jpd (23 Aug 2005)

I have just finished handling my mother's estate which was "only" €600,000 but taking that into account, my experience with the solicitor handling the estate was as follows :-

Quoting from their letter giving an estimate of the costs

"..., there is a recommended scale of fees in relation to probate matters. The scale charges the first €12,700 at 3.5%, the next €12,700 at 3% and the balance of the Estate at 2.5%. ... 

It is not the policy of this firm to charge those fees in cases where such a level of fee would not be justified as quite frankly those scale fees can lead to exorbitant charges. 

By way of example, if this scale was applied to your Mother's Estate the professional fee alone would be in the region of €15,000.

I have discussed with (...) what an appropiate fee would be in this case and our legal fee ... will be €1,500."

This included extraction of Grant, CAT clearances. The final fee was €1,500 plus a sundry fee of €200, all with VAT of 21% added. 

Obviously, the fee depends on the amount of work to be done, but fees based on a % of the estate are a complete nonsense in this day and age. Ask another solicitor for an estimate.

Regards
Joe Dempsey


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## RainyDay (23 Aug 2005)

Did the solicitor quote a fee up-front?


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## jpd (24 Aug 2005)

Fee quote up-front ?

Verbally yes, but it took some time to get a written estimate.
Joe


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## Vanilla (24 Aug 2005)

You can't compare one estate with another. There can be huge variations in the work involved. For example one estate of a gross value of €750,000 could well consist of one house and one bank account. Whereas another estate of €250,000 could consist of seperate parcels of land, with title problems involving multiple grants, different bank accounts, shares, non- Irish assets involving overseas grants, claims by creditors, claims by persons claiming to be beneficiaries, claims of parentage etc etc. Not to mention tax issues. There would be wildly different legal work involved- and it really doesnt relate to the gross estate value.


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## Chamar (8 Sep 2005)

Hi,

I have been named as the sole executor of the will of a close relative. At the reading I just assumed that all things would be processed by the solicitor in question and that however he charges he charges. However, having read the above, I am now worried that he will charge a % fee or an unreasonable case-load based fee.

What could I do in that event? I never thought to ask for en estimate as I didn't occur to me at the time. Who can I ask to review the fee when it comes?

Thanks,

M.


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## RainyDay (8 Sep 2005)

Ask him for an estimate now, and remind him that given that he failed in his legal obligation to provide you with an estimate up-front, he needs to make sure the estimate is acceptable to you.


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## ClubMan (8 Sep 2005)

What's the form called that solicitors are supposed to give clients containing details of their estimated charges? And does this apply in all cases or just conveyancing?


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## Chamar (8 Sep 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> Ask him for an estimate now, and remind him that given that he failed in his legal obligation to provide you with an estimate up-front, he needs to make sure the estimate is acceptable to you.



Do you think its worth potentially rattling his cage for that now given that work started 10 weeks ago? What do I do if I don't like the estimate? Was he legally obliged to give me one? If so its a bit much of him to have expected me to tell him. In fact, their whole attitude with me has been a bit inappropriate I feel what with them telling me to do & explain things they should do or know when I am the one suffering after a very tough loss.

Thanks Again,

M.


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## ClubMan (8 Sep 2005)

Have you made your dissatisfaction known to them directly yet? After all, if you don't complain then they may thing that you are happy. Don't be afraid to insist on getting a suitable/professional service. I personally would not take the confrontational approach suggested above but I certainly would ask for an outline of the expected charges and make any concerns about the service to date known to them. If the worst comes to the worst you can always decide that you are not happy with the service and seek alternative advice. Can I ask you how/why you chose this solicitor or were they appointed by somebody else (e.g. nominated in the will or is this the job of the executor?)?


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## RainyDay (8 Sep 2005)

Chamar said:
			
		

> Do you think its worth potentially rattling his cage for that now given that work started 10 weeks ago? What do I do if I don't like the estimate? Was he legally obliged to give me one? If so its a bit much of him to have expected me to tell him.


Would you rather have a fight with him now when he reckons you own him €x or wait a few months until he reckons you owe him 3 x €x? I can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to get it into the open how. I understood from this thread that he was obliged to provide you with the quote up front.


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## Chamar (8 Sep 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Have you made your dissatisfaction known to them directly yet? After all, if you don't complain then they may thing that you are happy. Don't be afraid to insist on getting a suitable/professional service. I personally would not take the confrontational approach suggested above but I certainly would ask for an outline of the expected charges and make any concerns about the service to date known to them. If the worst comes to the worst you can always decide that you are not happy with the service and seek alternative advice. Can I ask you how/why you chose this solicitor or were they appointed by somebody else (e.g. nominated in the will or is this the job of the executor?)?



I was named as sole executor & no specific solicitor was named in the will as the one that was to process the estate. I had no idea that I was firstly due an estimate and secondly that any other solicitor other than the one where the will was drawn up could go ahead and process the estate. This wasn't discussed at all. The only thing I could think of to try and get them to do a good job was that I told them that I myself now would need a solicitor (don't have one currently) and would keep my business with them if they handled this well.

They haven't given me a hard time as such but there have been times where I feel I am the one explaining thresholds wrt inheritence tax etc. and I think they forget that I just lost the most important person in my life. Although maybe it is me who is being oversensitve on that one, I don't know.


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## ClubMan (8 Sep 2005)

Meant to say - condolences on your loss. I know that my mother found it extremely to deal with estate and financial issues when she was still grieving after my father died a few years ago especially since he was old style and generally took care of that side of things. However it's not just a cliché to say that time is a great healer and that the grieving process, once worked through in whatever way and at whatever length it takes for a particular individual, does come to a logical and gradual "end".


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## Chamar (8 Sep 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Meant to say - condolences on your loss. I know that my mother found it extremely to deal with estate and financial issues when she was still grieving after my father died a few years ago especially since he was old style and generally took care of that side of things. However it's not just a cliché to say that time is a great healer and that the grieving process, once worked through in whatever way and at whatever length it takes for a particular individual, does come to a logical and gradual "end".



Thanks for your words - it's just up and down (mostly downs) as you know. And there are only small windows where you are yourself and able to keep on top of solicitors etc. Part of the process I suppose....


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## ClubMan (8 Sep 2005)

Do you have to deal with this stuff now? It may not be the best time (as mentioned on the other thread about investment decisions) to be making big decisions right now. If you must deal with it now (I'm not sure about the practicalities and implications of delaying the processing of a will) then do you have somebody close that you can trust to assist you with these matters where you might not be able to rely on your own judgement? I realise that this stuff is off topic from the core financial/legal issues involved but they are practical issues all the same so hopefully you'll find some use in my comments.


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## Chamar (9 Sep 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Do you have to deal with this stuff now? It may not be the best time (as mentioned on the other thread about investment decisions) to be making big decisions right now. If you must deal with it now (I'm not sure about the practicalities and implications of delaying the processing of a will) then do you have somebody close that you can trust to assist you with these matters where you might not be able to rely on your own judgement? I realise that this stuff is off topic from the core financial/legal issues involved but they are practical issues all the same so hopefully you'll find some use in my comments.



Sadly not, I'm the only one left which is why I post.  I'm just using people's feedback to forearm myself as it were in the event of possible outcomes. Ultimately I have to wait until the estate has been processed before I can even think about what to do. For example. there is a strong possibility that the PPR which I mentioned in another thread will not be considered as such as it is not coming from a mother/father but a sibling and I, like most people my age have been working in Dubling the last few years so technically have not being residing there even though I own no other property.


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## ClubMan (9 Sep 2005)

There are some circumstances in which a property can be deemed one's _PPR _even if through work they are forced to reside elsewhere most of the time. You might want to check out if this applies in you case.


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## MOB (9 Sep 2005)

"What's the form called that solicitors are supposed to give clients containing details of their estimated charges? And does this apply in all cases or just conveyancing?"


Clubman, there isn't a particular prescribed form.  There are some template letters in common use.  The letter giving fee details is referred to as a "section 68" letter.  When taking initial instructions from a client for a fairly straightforward matter, I will jot down notes of the indicative fees and outlays (along with notes of the issues covered in initial advice) and at the end of the meeting I will simply give the client a photocopy of my notes.  This is perfectly adequate to meet the "Section 68" requirement.


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## Chamar (9 Sep 2005)

MOB said:
			
		

> "What's the form called that solicitors are supposed to give clients containing details of their estimated charges? And does this apply in all cases or just conveyancing?"
> 
> 
> Clubman, there isn't a particular prescribed form. There are some template letters in common use. The letter giving fee details is referred to as a "section 68" letter. When taking initial instructions from a client for a fairly straightforward matter, I will jot down notes of the indicative fees and outlays (along with notes of the issues covered in initial advice) and at the end of the meeting I will simply give the client a photocopy of my notes. This is perfectly adequate to meet the "Section 68" requirement.



What would your poisition be if, as in my case, the solicitor never mentioned any of this or gave any form of section 68 letter? Is the client supposed to know about this beforehand? How would not being told about it relate to a dispute over fees charged?


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## MOB (9 Sep 2005)

My understanding is that failure to furnish a section 68 letter is misconduct, but the absence of a section 68 does not per se remove the legal liability of the client to pay a fee for the work done.  So, anyone who has not got a "Section 68" letter need not be thinking of using this to avoid paying..........   

All solicitors fees can be subject to review by the Law Society (I think  - this has never happened me, so no great in depth knowledge).  Obviously, however, a section 68 letter is useful protection for a solicitor in the event of a dispute over the level of fees charged.


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## ClubMan (9 Sep 2005)

Thanks - section 68 is the letter/form that I was trying to think of.


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