# Tenant ignoring notice of termination



## amgd28 (28 Mar 2014)

I have tenants who have always been late and slow with their rent. 
In the last few months though they have got really bad and have arrears of 3000 euro. 
So I sent them a 14-day arrears notice (I followed the PRTB rules) and when the arrears were not cleared (nor even an attempt made) the I issued them with a 30 day termination notice.
They acknowledge receiving both letters but say they can't leave as the kids are in school. I have been so tolerant with them to date that I think they don't believe I will follow through on the letters.

So - they are all still in the house (Mum with 6 kids, one of which is an adult and two older teenagers).

What do I do as a landlord? How do I get them to vacate? Go into the house and tell them get out while I get the locks changed? How does this process actually work and can I get any tips from the more experienced landlords out there?


----------



## shesells (30 Mar 2014)

amgd28 said:


> What do I do as a landlord? How do I get them to vacate? Go into the house and tell them get out while I get the locks changed? How does this process actually work and can I get any tips from the more experienced landlords out there?



If you did that, you would end up in front of the PRTB for an illegal eviction and be forced to pay thousands in compensation. Sounds bizarre but that's the system.

The PRTB is the way to go, but you're in for the long haul. [broken link removed]

[broken link removed]


----------



## amgd28 (30 Mar 2014)

I can't afford such a wait. I will contact the PRTB but I am already out thousands,and rising.. Arrears now at 3900 as yet again they have missed rental payment.
I am putting the house up for sale to get rid in any event. I will pursue them through civil courts for rent owed.
The alternative is sit on my hands for the PRTB to adjudicate which could well be next year based on your notes!
Any landlords gone through this themselves?


----------



## jonnykerry (31 Mar 2014)

Quote from another form: note point 3 & 5..


1) Get a lawyer who agrees at the onset to act quickly and firmly and who will get court proceedings immediately. None of this crap that " we have to approach things carefully and slowly -give the tenants a chance to explain matters etc etc blah blah blah".

2) Try at the same time to speak gently and kindly to the tenants - may be worth trying to record your conversation so that the tenants won't say that you threatened them. Indeed, it may be useful to record if they speak or behave nastily. It's possible that if you try the sob story approach at first they may (unlikely) relent. It's good to have it on record that you were kind and polite.

3) You may not like this, but it may be neccessary to bribe them if they agreed to move out quickly. Would you consider this?

4) Obviously social service must be bothered continually. There may (unlikely) be a sympathetic person there who could cause problems for these scumbags as regards other social benefits.

5) I can not say on this forum what other steps I would take - and have taken in the past - with people who have acted in this way. Whatever you do keep it at arms length


----------



## Bronte (31 Mar 2014)

amgd28 said:


> I can't afford such a wait.


 
Then you have to do the sums.  If evicting them costs say a 10K penalty by the PRTB versus lost rent of 20K etc etc.  

My own preferred method is bribery.  

Where is the income in the house coming from ?  

You can be sure based on what you've posted this is a clever tenant and they will have you up before the PRTB like a shot if you put a foot wrong.  Record and document everything correctly.  

Contact the IPOA - Irish Property Owners Association for advice.  Also have a look at the irishlandlord website.


----------



## amgd28 (31 Mar 2014)

Thanks everybody. The tenant is on rent allowance and the stipulation in the lease is that this is paid directly to my account, not to theirs (as previously they were spending on other things like travelling to Europe etc). However tenant is still getting the rent allowance but not paying me
Everything is being documented and I am going by the book. Will let you know if I make any progress


----------



## Bronte (31 Mar 2014)

I suspected as much.  So the tenant is taking the rent paid by the state and spending it on herself.  Time to put a stop to that.  Tell her forthwith that she is to pay you or you'll have it cut off by social welfare. If she doesn't pay you in the next couple of days you need to contact Social Welfare and inform them she is not paying you any rent.  I would do this by registered letter so that SW cannot claim they didn't know about it. It will get them to act quicker.  

Any chance of a backlash from this lady?  It's something you must protect yourself from?

Did she ever pay rent on time?  What happened the direct lodgement?


----------



## delgirl (31 Mar 2014)

amgd28 said:


> The tenant is on rent allowance and the stipulation in the lease is that this is paid directly to my account, not to theirs (as previously they were spending on other things like travelling to Europe etc). However tenant is still getting the rent allowance but not paying me.


[broken link removed] on rent supplement tenants.

Whilte it's good to have it stipulated in the lease, your should have had her sign a waiver when she moved in.

You need to take a 'Rent Supplement Consent Form' to her immediately and get her to sign it.  I can't find a sample online at the moment (busy at work) but if you PM me your email address, I'll email you a copy.

Then take it yourself to the Department of Social Protection's representative (formerly known as the Community Welfare Officer) and have the rent supplement at least from today paid directly into your bank account.


----------



## amgd28 (31 Mar 2014)

Backlash unlikely to be honest. Never really paid rent on time. She seemed "surprised" that the rent allowance did not go to my account as we had filled in the mandate. Her English is poor. To be honest, I have been too soft from day 1
Good call RE SW...


----------



## amgd28 (31 Mar 2014)

Thanks delgirl, that's a useful site... If I don't get anywhere today I'll follow up with you RE the Rent Supplement Consent. I really want to get her out though at this stage though and just get rid of the headache of the house, get it sold and move on!


----------



## delgirl (31 Mar 2014)

You could find that she knows you can't physically evict her and that the PRTB process could take months, during which time her rent arrears will increase further.

At least if you have her sign it now, you can get the rent supplement while you're trying to evict her.


----------



## amgd28 (17 Apr 2014)

Update:
Following the responses in this thread I visited them to remind them the lease had been terminated and they needed to get out. I didn't push for arrears to be repaid. Gave them a deadline that the house would be need to be evacuated by Friday 11th or things would get ugly (not in a physical sense - but notice to council, small claims court for arrears etc).

Lo and behold, the house is now back in my possession!


----------



## Time (17 Apr 2014)

Well done.


----------



## AlbacoreA (17 Apr 2014)

Sad that it has to happen like this, but at least its resolved easily enough. While I would chase the arrears, I wouldn't spend any money or much time on it. You're chances of getting it are very low. No point throwing good money after bad, or getting worked up about it. Sounds like you're not though, which is good. Its a bad debt which like any business, you might not recover.


----------



## delgirl (17 Apr 2014)

Well done amgd28, hope you have better luck with the next tenant.

If you're going to take someone on social welfare, get them to sign a waiver and take it yourself or post it to the CWO to ensure that the rent allowance goes directly into your account.


----------



## elcato (17 Apr 2014)

Don't forget to change the locks. Keep the old ones for when the next tenant moves on and rotate them.


----------



## murphaph (17 Apr 2014)

Well handled. In this case "only" 3k in lost rent is actually positive, given how little protection the law offers landlords from rogue tenants like this. Change locks and make sure you file a complaint for unpaid rent with PRTB (but don't waste a penny on solicitors etc.) so her name is recorded with them at least.


----------



## backothehill (17 Apr 2014)

...and the bleeding hearts complain about landlords not taking rent allowance..


----------



## delgirl (18 Apr 2014)

... and you've got people like David McWilliams and Threshold calling for more rights and better security of tenure for tenants .......


----------



## ang1170 (18 Apr 2014)

delgirl said:


> ... and you've got people like David McWilliams and Threshold calling for more rights and better security of tenure for tenants .......



I don't think anyone's calling for security of tenure for people who don't pay their rent.


----------



## AlbacoreA (18 Apr 2014)

Missing is any security for the LL or penalties for not paying rent.


----------



## amgd28 (18 Apr 2014)

I do think that there is precious little recourse for the landlord if a tenant starts playing silly buggers with the rent. Another set of tenants could easily have dug in for months as others have said.
I do think though that such an occupation is a fundamental breach of the landlord's property rights and I would be interested to see this tested directly in Court rather than mess around with the PRTB. I would have thought you could petition the court for an injunction against the tenant and thus have the Guards on your side for evicting them. Obviously a potentially expensive route though...


----------



## delgirl (22 Apr 2014)

ang1170 said:


> I don't think anyone's calling for security of tenure for people who don't pay their rent.


... they're calling for more rights and security of tenure for tenants in general, which in turn means it will make it even more difficult for landlords to evict tenants who can't / won't pay their rent.

Have experienced non-paying tenants both here and in the UK, where the tenancy laws are very similar, and there is absolutely no protection for landlords who have mortgages to pay and are unable to do so because the tenant stops paying the rent.


----------



## Bronte (22 Apr 2014)

amgd28 said:


> Update:
> Following the responses in this thread I visited them to remind them the lease had been terminated and they needed to get out. I didn't push for arrears to be repaid. Gave them a deadline that the house would be need to be evacuated by Friday 11th or things would get ugly (not in a physical sense - but notice to council, small claims court for arrears etc).
> 
> Lo and behold, the house is now back in my possession!


 
Well done Amgd28, you did exceedingly well there.  You just chalk this up to experience and move on.  Great end to this story.


----------



## Bronte (22 Apr 2014)

backothehill said:


> ...and the bleeding hearts complain about landlords not taking rent allowance..


 
Not all social welfare tenants are bad.


----------

