# New IT contractor looking for advice



## crobo (18 Aug 2008)

Hi all,
I'm setting out as an IT contractor and I need a bit of guidance. Can anyone suggest a good accountant, preferably though not necessarily in the Galway area. 

Thanks


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## locutas (18 Aug 2008)

You could go directly to a management company and get paid a net amount every month.  This is of course minus your obligatory taxes and a monthly fee around €300 from what I hear.  An accountant would be no cheaper (well at least mine is not)

A colleague of mine did this and is very happy with the result.  Bear in mind though not all management companies are the same and the same goes for accountants

I personally got an accountant and formed a company but comparing the amount of self administration I have to do (form filling etc) versus what he does, he appears to made a better choice

His income retention also appears to be higher then myself but this might come down to different accountants interpret things differently.


Best of luck with your new venture!


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## z103 (18 Aug 2008)

> You could go directly to a management company and get paid a net amount every month. This is of course minus your obligatory taxes and a monthly fee around €300 from what I hear. An accountant would be no cheaper (well at least mine is not)


That's €3600/year to do one person's (probably straight forward) accounts, and presumably lodge returns. Insane amount of money, IMHO. Definitely shop around.
I certainly didn't pay anything like that in my contracting days.


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## locutas (19 Aug 2008)

Too be honest €3600 for an accountant is a lot of money and their service would need to be pretty amazing to warrant that price.  From reading other posts and talking to other contractors I get the feeling that some (possible most) accountants are basically charging a percentage of the customers gross earning.  

I think it might be an idea to start another thread on what are the general cost for accountant to do the book for a one man show.  Better search and see if there is something else there already.


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## ubiquitous (19 Aug 2008)

I am a practising accountant and €3600 to me sounds very, very expensive. You should find it quite easy to get a decent service for around half that sum, cheaper again if you can present your records well to the accountant.


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## Graham_07 (19 Aug 2008)

leghorn said:


> That's €3600/year to do one person's (probably straight forward) accounts, and presumably lodge returns. Insane amount of money, IMHO. Definitely shop around.


 
While it's not possible without full view of the case/records to ascertain how straight forward it is, for a regular IT contractor it does seem very expensive. As leghorn said, shop around. 




locutas said:


> I get the feeling that some (possible most) accountants are basically charging a percentage of the customers gross earning.


 
Most would charge on time x rate. Percentage of the client earnings is not, to me, an acceptable way to calculate accountancy fees.


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## ubiquitous (19 Aug 2008)

Graham_07 said:


> Most would charge on time x rate. Percentage of the client earnings is not, to me, an acceptable way to calculate accountancy fees.



Charging fees on a time x rate basis is commonplace but not always appropriate, especially if/when firms employ inexperienced staff and the more inefficient they are in their work, the higher their fee. Hard to beat fixed-fee deals with contingencies for extra work if warranted by deficiencies in records or complexities or irregularities in tax position.


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## Graham_07 (19 Aug 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Charging fees on a time x rate basis is commonplace but not always appropriate, especially if/when firms employ inexperienced staff and the more inefficient they are in their work, the higher their fee. Hard to beat fixed-fee deals with contingencies for extra work if warranted by deficiencies in records or complexities or irregularities in tax position.


 
Absolutely. However even in cases of fixed fee I would usually do a quick calc on fee/hrs to see how the hourly comes out. Helps in assessing those cases which may not be as time efficient as they should be.


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## ubiquitous (19 Aug 2008)

Graham_07 said:


> Absolutely. However even in cases of fixed fee I would usually do a quick calc on fee/hrs to see how the hourly comes out. Helps in assessing those cases which may not be as time efficient as they should be.



Indeed, a basic (but important) cost control measure.


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## z106 (19 Aug 2008)

I'm an It contractor and i've done both.
i.e. Gone to my own accountant and gone through an umbrella company.

Yes - teh fee is about 3600 a year - depending on your salary.
They take 5% - but remember this fee is tax deductible - so it is really about 3%

I started with an umbrella company - changed to an accountant - and have now changed back to an umbrella.

For me an umbrella company is way easier in terms of paperwork and hassles.
You get pad a net amount every month just lioke a PAYE employee and have not to dela with tax or VAT.
WIth a normal accountant you have the headache of paperwork and holding your own VAT and tax payments for over a year.

It is more expensive than a normal accountant but you shjoudl look on it as a service they provide.

Personally i think it is worth it.


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## ubiquitous (19 Aug 2008)

Biggest drawback of the umbrella company is the relative lack of options in relation to claiming deductions against income for overhead costs, and timing of salary payments to maximise standard rate cut-offs etc.


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## PaulHoughton (19 Aug 2008)

If you are a typical it contractor then you will issue 12 invoices a year to the same client. You will make 6 vat returns a year, pay income tax and PRSI once a year and, if you form a limited company, you will pay corporation tax once a year.

You need advice from your accountant about how to fill in these forms and which receipts to retain to claim repayments against your VAT and income/corporation tax.  If you are organised then the total amount of work in keeping your accounts in order is tiny (maybe 1 day a year).

If you file your returns on time and retain your receipts and invoices then you will be fine. If you don't you will be screwed royally. An accountant typically costs 2000 plus VAT per year. People usually find them by word of mouth from anyone you know in business. If your accountant fails to make returns for you or if you have to suggest deductibles to him rather than the other way around then get a new one.

Some umbrella companies are very close to money laundering operations and may land you in trouble.


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## z106 (19 Aug 2008)

PaulHoughton said:


> Some umbrella companies are very close to money laundering operations and may land you in trouble.


 
Can you elaborate please?


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## sartay (20 Aug 2008)

My boyfriend is a contractor and pays €95 plus VAT a month to his accountant. Seems like he has a very good deal based on the prices on this thread! They are in Dublin though so probably no good to you Crobo?


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## simplyjoe (20 Aug 2008)

I dont reply to PMs so dont bother contacting me but to give you a guide in a limited company situation with us doing the VAT, I would charge €2,000 + vat per annum payable over 6 installments. For accounts , B1, CT1 and form 11 I would probably charge €1,600 per annum (non audited). To do wages for a director with a set salary I would probably charge €4 per week with payslips emailed weekly or monthly as required. Obviously these fees would depend upon the level of co-operation given by the client. Messy client - higher fees!!!!


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## Mel (20 Aug 2008)

simplyjoe said:


> I dont reply to PMs so dont bother contacting me but to give you a guide in a limited company situation with us doing the VAT, I would charge €2,000 + vat per annum payable over 6 installments. For accounts , B1, CT1 and form 11 I would probably charge €1,600 per annum (non audited). To do wages for a director with a set salary I would probably charge €4 per week with payslips emailed weekly or monthly as required. Obviously these fees would depend upon the level of co-operation given by the client. Messy client - higher fees!!!!


 
Why don't you just disable the PM function?  
It's on your User CP/ Settings & Options/ Edit Options/ Messaging & Notifications/ clear the Enable Private Messaging checkbox.
I won't charge for this advice either.


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## z103 (20 Aug 2008)

> To do wages for a director with a set salary I would probably charge €4 per week with payslips emailed weekly or monthly as required.


€4 to click the 'Process Pay' button!
Buyer beware I suppose.


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## Graham_07 (20 Aug 2008)

leghorn said:


> €4 to click the 'Process Pay' button!
> Buyer beware I suppose.


 
Last time I checked payroll software was not free either.


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## z103 (20 Aug 2008)

> Last time I checked payroll software was not free either.


How long would it take for an accountant to make back the cost of the software? (Charging €4/week for one employee)

NOTE: I don't really have a problem with this, BTW. I'm all for free trade etc, and people should be (generally) entitled to charge whatever they like for services. If people don't shop around and explore all avenues, that's their problem I suppose.


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## ubiquitous (20 Aug 2008)

Typical. Three figures are mentioned: €2,000, €1,600 and €4. Nobody gets excited about the bigger figures but the discussion focuses on the smallest figure.


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## rmelly (20 Aug 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Typical. Three figures are mentioned: €2,000, €1,600 and €4. Nobody gets excited about the bigger figures but the discussion focuses on the smallest figure.


 
Not to mention the €3600...


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## Graham_07 (20 Aug 2008)

leghorn said:


> If people don't shop around and explore all avenues, that's their problem I suppose.


 
You summarised it perfectly there.


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## simplyjoe (20 Aug 2008)

leghorn said:


> €4 to click the 'Process Pay' button!
> Buyer beware I suppose.


 
Not a fair comment. The client has the option to do it themselves or get it done elsewhere. If they do it themselves they invariably come back. If they go elsewhere they will be charged more. The figure also covers set up, P30s, payment of Paye, P60, P35, backups (electronic and paper) and whatever other queries arise throughout the year. You pay for knowledge.


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## CoService (21 Aug 2008)

Leghorn must be able to do payroll himself - I have to say it's definitely not a fair comment, 4€ is a good fair and honest price for this service.

Even if it is a straight forward weekly payroll - there's time in setting it up (which can take quite some time) and also 4 payslips emailed per month.

Other prices are also reasonable I think - 2K and 1.6K.


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## z107 (22 Aug 2008)

To answer a couple of queries in this thread, Payback payroll is €120 + VAT for an annual license. This will allow you to set up unlimited companies, employees and users. We sell this to bureaus and directly to employers, across Ireland (and now the UK). Many of our bureau customers will also offer ancillary payroll services to their clients.

With regards ease of use-


> The client has the option to do it themselves or get it done elsewhere. If they do it themselves they invariably come back.


Which product(s) do they use? We'd quickly go out of business if this was the case for Payback users.

[I'm affiliated with Payback Payroll software]


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## simplyjoe (25 Aug 2008)

umop3p!sdn said:


> With regards ease of use-
> 
> Which product(s) do they use? We'd quickly go out of business if this was the case for Payback users.
> 
> You are assuming that they have or use a computer!!!! How widespread is computer usage? How many people buy computers and don't use them?


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## aircobra19 (25 Aug 2008)

simplyjoe said:


> ...
> You are assuming that they have or use a computer!!!! How widespread is computer usage? How many people buy computers and don't use them?


 
Wouldn't be much of an IT company/contractor.


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## abakan (18 Sep 2008)

Hi guys,

On the subject of contracting.
I have to do my expenses in the next 2 weeks for my payments and I was wondering what all can I put down as expenses.

I have been told by my company what expenses to put down but I would like a bit more info as my rep told me to put down 150E of training costs per month, I'd like to think I'd train every month but...

Like what food expenses can I put down!!
Is there a way to put down car expenses as an expense!
Would a pension be really beneficial to put down as an expense, anybody with any good reccomendations of a pension company if that is the case!
Any other expense that I could put down.

Is this is in line with taking down my net pay so I dont have to put as much tax


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