# Would you vote for Fianna Fail?



## Homer (15 Jun 2010)

A friend of mine whose opinions I generally respect really surprised me yesterday by telling me that, for the first time ever, he was actively considering voting for Fianna Fail in the next general election.

I know that there are many diehards who will always vote for Fianna Fail, no matter what, but I'm somewhat gobsmacked at the idea that they could actually be gaining new converts, in spite of everything.

Is there a possibility that they could actually win the next election?

Homer


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## mathepac (15 Jun 2010)

No and Yes


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## carpedeum (16 Jun 2010)

I can understand his thinking. I have not voted for FF for some time as I lived smack bang in the middle of Haughey, Ray Burke and GV Wright and witnessed the subtle and the more obvious corruption, nepotism and cronyism in Swords, Malahide and Kinsealey. Putting that with Bertie's nationwide carry-on just sickened me.

Now I have a problem! With current goings-on in FG I cannot vote for them. I don't rate Bruton or Varadker. They are FF-lite. I wouldn't vote Labour because they would tax everything and I don't see much depth to their gene pool beyond Gilmore and Burton. 

Because of the poor calibre of politicians and leadership during my adult life I have had to tolerate coalitions where small minority parties (the PD's, Greens, Healy-Raes, Tony Gregory, Blayney, Lowry) have had undue power and influence in leglislating for the people without having a mandate from the people at the ballot box.

I fear that a hung Dáil or another FF coalition on the cards.


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## Homer (16 Jun 2010)

Let me rephrase my final question.

I know there's always *a* possibility, but is there a* realistic* likelihood/danger of it actually happening?

Or to put it another way, if you were placing a bet on Fianna Fail to still be in government after the next general election, what odds would represent reasonable value for money?

Homer


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## starlite68 (16 Jun 2010)

there is very little any good out there really! but i still think the voters will boot FF out first chance the get.


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## Ancutza (16 Jun 2010)

Boot them out in favour of who though?  That's the question.  FG are in the process of tearing themselves apart and Labour.............well let's not go there.


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## Liamos (16 Jun 2010)

I think the odds would still be in favour of a FG / Labour coalition especially if Bruton wins leadership vote. 

However, if Kenny is still in charge for next election all FF have to do is put up a billboard showing a picture of the 9 rebels who have no confidence in their leader!


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## thedaras (16 Jun 2010)

No..


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## DerKaiser (16 Jun 2010)

Homer said:


> A friend of mine whose opinions I generally respect really surprised me yesterday by telling me that, for the first time ever, he was actively considering voting for Fianna Fail in the next general election.
> 
> I know that there are many diehards who will always vote for Fianna Fail, no matter what, but I'm somewhat gobsmacked at the idea that they could actually be gaining new converts, in spite of everything.
> 
> ...


 
A lot could happen between now and Summer 2012.  

If FF stay in power and we witness some kind of recovery by then, they might hold onto 60 seats, but FG/Labour would still have 90 seats even in that scenario.  In short we're headed for an FG/Labour government.

Will I vote for FF?  I don't know.

Would I vote for FF?  No, based on the 2002-2007 government but yes, based on 2008 - 2010.


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## MrMan (16 Jun 2010)

There has to be a chance of them remaining in power. Opposition have yet to convince anyone that they want power or can handle it. If Cowen goes and a respected replacement steps in it could be a case of ' they seem to be getting their house in order'.


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## Sunny (16 Jun 2010)

Out of curiosity, if you could elect a politician from any party to be a Minister, what would your dream cabinet be? The departments are


Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources
Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs
Department of Defence
Department of Education and Skills
Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation
Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Department of Finance
Department of Foreign Affairs
Department of Health and Children
Department of Justice and Law Reform
Department of Social Protection
Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport
Department of Transport
Department of the Taoiseach


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## Caveat (16 Jun 2010)

Never voted FF, never will.


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## Mpsox (16 Jun 2010)

I voted FF the last time (indeed all the time) and come from a traditional FF family. Were I still living where I was born and bred, I probably would still give my No1 to the local FF TD but that is as much because I have a lot of time for him as an individual, he's been helpful to my family in the past. I wouldn't touch his running mate with a bargepole

Having moved and now living in a different county, I voted FF last time out as much out of habit as anything else. having lived there for a few years, I have to say that on a personal basis, none of the sitting TDs in the constituency inspire me in any way. Also there is a large part of me, as someone who would historically class himself as a FF supporter, that believes there is a need for a major clear out and for the likes of Bertie, Cowan, Noel Demspey, Ned O'Keefe and all that ilk to be put out to pasture and to start again (similer to what Enda Kenny did) with the likes of Brian Lenihan and Mary Hannifan

My problem is, who else is there? FG clearly couldn't organise a session in a brewery, Kenny will say anything that's fashionable to get elected, what's Bruton ever done and Varadker at the minute is too flakey to have anywhere near a ministers seat. Labour are trying to be too clever by far by not commiting to anything (Gilmore on the news last week when asked about the Croke Park agreement was frankly, embarrasing). I'm not a socialist which rules out the fringe left wing parties (SF, Joe Higgins crowd etc) so that basically leaves me with the Greens, which as a farmers son and given that they seem to think the countryside exists for townies to admire, not for people to earn a living in, doesn't leave me with much options.

I do think a lot of people will not give their No 1 to FF in a general election. The big question however, who will get the transfers? I do think FF could hoover up seats in later counts, simply because people will make their protest and then potentially revert to habit down the ballot paper


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## Purple (16 Jun 2010)

If Lenihan was their leader I would vote for them. I didn’t vote for them during the Bertie years and I don’t rate Cowan but Lenihan in a different league to most in the government or the opposition. If Cowan is still in charge I will probably vote FG (even though it will be a vote for Happy Gilmore).


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## Latrade (16 Jun 2010)

With two years to go in all likelihood, I'm not writing off or eliminating anyone for my vote. 

So to answer the question, would I vote for FF: yes. But then I'd vote for FG and even Labour if they were able to convince me at the election they were the right people for the job at that time.


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## zxcvbnm (16 Jun 2010)

I don't think FF shoudl be written off just yet.

While they certaionly got us into the mess it also appears they are the best equipped to get us out of it.

Someopne may well not vote for them as a punishment for their past - but at teh same time, we are where we are now and we need to get out of it.

I'm sure many people will not vote for them given they caused a lot of teh mess while also believing they are currently doing a good job to get us out of the mess. 
So there could definitely be a case of cutting off their nose to spite their face (or whatever that phrase is).

Saying that i am sure many people will do just that - which isn't necessarily the wrong thing to do either as people shouldn't really be allowed run wreck and suffer no retribution.
Of course that has to be weighed up against the reality that FF are probably doing better than other parties would in getting us out of it. 
So it is an interesting one- but i think the publics desire to see blood will win the day and FF will not get back in.

I think teh fact that this thread even exists is interesting - i don't think this would have existed 6 months ago !


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## MrMan (16 Jun 2010)

Caveat said:


> Never voted FF, never will.




Is that because of traditional voting etc? I can understand the never have part, but if a party is heading in the right direction would you not then consider them? Just curiousity tbh, I generally go by the individual rather than the party. 
My last residents meeting before the elections we asked a few local candidates to attend, some did, the FF guy didn't (and he is also a resident!) so he basically lost all votes in the estate because he couldn't show some initiative or guile.


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## carpedeum (16 Jun 2010)

zxcvbnm said:


> I don't think FF shoudl be written off just yet.
> 
> While they certaionly got us into the mess it also appears they are the best equipped to get us out of it.
> 
> ...



I reluctantly agree with the above. I listened with amusement to one of Bruton's supporters saying that he was an economist, implying he was more qualified to run the country than Lenihan or others. FG are living in their own world, detached from the electorate. They have had the Governement on the ropes, but, are too busy in-fighting to go for the knockout punch. Bruton has gone missing in recent weeks. Is this because Lenihan is slowly steadying the economy? Besides Kenny's dropping popularity, it should be noted that FG's overall popularity has been dropping for that past 12 months or so - they are scapegoating Kenny for this when their are 18 or so front bench spokesmen. Does anyone seriously believe that the likes of Bruton, Hayes, Reilly, Varadker, Allen etc are better skilled than the current mob? I am not a supporter of Fianna Fáil, have usually voted Fianna Gael and I don't think so.


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## cork (16 Jun 2010)

I have no regard for \Gilmore - afraid of even expressing an openion on the Croke Park Deal.


The FG leadership thing is a bore. Kenny is a better hope for them than Bruton.

I think Cowen is a decent guy & he is trying to get this country back on tracks.

He deserves more respect than he gets.

But he has much to do to cut spending.

No doubt the hapless Labour party will comtinue to oppose.

I will probably vote FF in the next election


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## Caveat (16 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> I will probably vote FF in the next election


 
You don't say!

Must rank as the least surprising statement on the site this year.


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## mathepac (16 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> ... I think Cowen is a decent guy & he is trying to get this country back on tracks.
> 
> He deserves more respect than he gets ...


I don't share your views and can't see any supporting evidence for them, but I have evidence that supports my contrary view.


cork said:


> ... But he has much to do to cut spending ...


I agree, because he hasn't actually done much to make significant differences in PS expenditures, but he has penalised tax-payers heavily which is not the same thing.


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## michaelm (16 Jun 2010)

I always voted FF until 2007, when I changed to FG.  I won't be voting for FF as they (particularly Cowen) caused the mess and Lenihan, in guaranteeing Anglo, made what is IMO probably the worst decision in the history of the State.


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## Caveat (16 Jun 2010)

MrMan said:


> Is that because of traditional voting etc?


 
No, simply because I have deep disdain for most of the leadership style and party ethos since voting age. At grass roots level too, and in a few different constituencies, the quality of candidates for me has been terrible. The FF candidates IME have always been the slimiest, most complacent, least informed and least professional. 

But sure they "got things done" so it's OK then 



> I can understand the never have part, but if a party is heading in the right direction would you not then consider them?


 
OK, "never will" was maybe a bit rash but unless there is a *radical* departure in party ethos/attitude I wouldn't, no. The tentacles of influence from CJH and Bertie are still far too current for me though.


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## zxcvbnm (16 Jun 2010)

michaelm said:


> I always voted FF until 2007, when I changed to FG. I won't be voting for FF as they (particularly Cowen) caused the mess and Lenihan, in guaranteeing Anglo, made what is IMO probably the worst decision in the history of the State.


 
You are aware that in the honohan report and the other report it was stated that guaranteeing Anglo was teh correct decision?
And honohan himself said in an interview with vincent browne that anglo was of systemic importance.

So you are disagreeing with those reports yes?

What are your qualifications with regard to economics by the way?


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## Slash (16 Jun 2010)

Absolutely not!!

Apart from the corruption which is still endemic in much of FF, I am insulted by the utter contempt shown by FF for the national parliament. There are no politicians in FF whom you could say are there just to do the best for their constituents. They all appear to be just about lining their pockets. They make me sick.

I would much prefer to see honest, genuine, committed politicians in government, no matter what party they belong to.


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## z107 (16 Jun 2010)

Anyone that votes for FF because the opposition may even be worse, should instead spoil their vote.

Its a crazy situation when people are voting on a party because all the rest are so bad. It's like asking to vote for incompetence or corruption.


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## csirl (16 Jun 2010)

It looks like Kenny is history, so it is likely that FG will start to gain in the polls.

This may seem radical, but by the end of the decade, I see us falling in line with most western democracies with the two big parties fighting each election being the centre right (FG) and the centre left (Labour) - each getting 30-40%. I think FF will level out as the third party with 15-20% of the vote in most elections. 

Dont rule out the possibility that the outcome of the next election will be FG short of a majority trying to put together a coalition with independents, Greens etc. versus Labour being wooed into being in coalition by FF.


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## sunrock (16 Jun 2010)

FF and FG have a core vote,probably 30% and 20% respectively.This is the vote they will get no matter how badly they done in parliament.
There is the traditional factor and all the favours done down the years by the local politicians.It is the power of the incumbent to dish out the goodies.It also means that the name of the local politicians is continued with children and siblings continuing in the job to avail of favors done by their fathers etc
No matter how incompetent the present ruling politicians, one can be sure they will run a top class campaign during the next election.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Jun 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Anyone that votes for FF because the opposition may even be worse, should instead spoil their vote.
> 
> Its a crazy situation when people are voting on a party because all the rest are so bad. It's like asking to vote for incompetence or corruption.



Spoiling your vote makes no sense. 

It's much easier choosing between two attractive options than choosing between two unattractive options. 

If you would prefer a FF led coalition to a FG led coalition, then you should vote for FF, even if you don't like them.


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## michaelm (17 Jun 2010)

zxcvbnm said:


> You are aware that in the honohan report and the other report it was stated that guaranteeing Anglo was teh correct decision?
> And honohan himself said in an interview with vincent browne that anglo was of systemic importance.
> 
> So you are disagreeing with those reports yes?


Yes. I think it's pants. 


zxcvbnm said:


> What are your qualifications with regard to economics by the way?


None.


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## shnaek (17 Jun 2010)

The real question is, will people vote based on what they want for the future, or to punish decisions of the past?

I find it hard to know what I'll do. There isn't much talent or vision in any of the parties. As far as I can see, small government is the only solution. The less these useless, but often well intentioned fools interfere in my life, the better. 

So in the end I will probably vote for the most decent local candidate, whatever their creed. And I will continue to dream of living on an island with vision, character and freedom from the tyranny of the majority, where a band like TOOL will compose the national anthym. Amen.


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## Complainer (17 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> I think Cowen is a decent guy & he is trying to get this country back on tracks.


The problem is that most people don't trust the driver who drove us way off the tracks to get us back.


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## sunrock (18 Jun 2010)

Its not going to make much difference who is in charge. Its going to be like the 80s again with spending cuts and no jobs. The government is going to go the road of least resistance which is going to affect the young and elderly the most. No jobs for school and college leavers.....so much for the knowledge economy.
And of course the health service even after years of Harney inspired "2 tier" service is going to be cut severly.
Next year they will be more cuts and then more again.
There should have been a law in the constitution forbidding our government to get into debt.The politicians were keen enough in trying to get blasphemy laws put into the constitution.


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## MandaC (18 Jun 2010)

*Vote for Fianna Fail*

It is kind of like being caught between a rock and a hard place.  

As Brendan says it is a waste of time to spoil your vote but we dont really have"there's always C" choice as Carlsberg says!

I vote for whoever I find good in my area.


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## Yorrick (19 Jun 2010)

It really is difficult to say at this point. Labour are playing the object to everything card without giving proper answers to how they would approach the sitiuation.
FG have a lot of ground to make up after the last few days.
If in 12 months time there is a definite sign of economic improvement FF could return to a vote that would give them a chance at coalition. The banks issues is confusing and most people will judge the situation by the number of unemployed and vote accordingly.


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## Green (19 Jun 2010)

MandaC said:


> I vote for whoever I find good in my area.


 

I would not agree with this as a method of deciding whom to vote for. Its a cop out and shows a certain disgregard for Ireland inc.

This is the same sort of decision making process which allows people like Michael Lowry to be continually elected in Tipperary regardless of the damning critiscism of his actions by the McCracken Tribunal. The fact that he deliberately lied to the Dail seems to matter little to these people. It also allows/encourages other politicians to engage in similar behaviour and then argue that "the Dublin meeja were out to get them".

I have never voted FF as they are institutionally corrupt and are only interested getting and keeping power and the last 15 years of their Govt is testamnet to this. They are also ideologically bankrupt.


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## MrMan (19 Jun 2010)

YOBR said:


> I would not agree with this as a method of deciding whom to vote for. Its a cop out and shows a certain disgregard for Ireland inc.
> 
> This is the same sort of decision making process which allows people like Michael Lowry to be continually elected in Tipperary regardless of the damning critiscism of his actions by the McCracken Tribunal. The fact that he deliberately lied to the Dail seems to matter little to these people. It also allows/encourages other politicians to engage in similar behaviour and then argue that "the Dublin meeja were out to get them".
> 
> I have never voted FF as they are institutionally corrupt and are only interested getting and keeping power and the last 15 years of their Govt is testamnet to this. They are also ideologically bankrupt.



Voting for someone that you find good in your area is not the same as turning a blind eye to corruption. If you vote for the party then you may be ignoring the fact that the candidate in your area is not the best person for the job. Party voting tends to be traditional and family orientated but at least if you are choosing the best person for the job in your area and if everyone did this then surely the party with the best equipped candidates who emerge as the government.


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## Green (19 Jun 2010)

MrMan said:


> Voting for someone that you find good in your area is not the same as turning a blind eye to corruption.
> 
> If you vote for the party then you may be ignoring the fact that the candidate in your area is not the best person for the job. Party voting tends to be traditional and family orientated but at least if you are choosing the best person for the job in your area and if everyone did this then surely the party with the best equipped candidates who emerge as the government.


 
I disagree, in some cases voting for the best guy is turning a blind eye to bad behaviour, for an example read the McCracken Tribunal report.

TD's in Ireland tend to specialise in low grade social work which means they ignore the bigger policy issues and we end up with TD's, Senators and Councillors chasing the same minor local issues. If you disagree just check out the Oireachtas report and look at the questions asked on any given day. The party with the best equipped candidates (to carry out this low grade social work) dont necessarily leave themselves best to make policy. If you need an example of this then look at Ireland over the last fifteen years! All the filled potholes and medical cards fixed up won't disguise the fact that we have had massive policy failures......why, because the majority of our politicians are focussed on small, minor local issues. Politicans who quit like George Lee and Jim Glennon have at least had the honesty to call the system and what TD's do for the shambles that it is...


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