# 2020 Statement of Liability available already



## MugsGame (1 Jan 2021)

Hats off to Revenue who seem to have resolved all the ROS systems issues from last year - my 2020 statement of liability was ready for me this morning, and I was able to submit my 2020 tax return this afternoon.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jan 2021)

Mugs

And I was bragging about doing mine by the end of August! 

Well done.

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Jan 2021)

Very handy for people who are due refunds


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## Paul O Mahoney (1 Jan 2021)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Very handy for people who are due refunds


Do those people exist?


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## MugsGame (1 Jan 2021)

Why else do you think I was submitting today and not mid-November!


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Jan 2021)

Was your PAYE information there?


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## MugsGame (1 Jan 2021)

Yes. That said, I'm paid mid-month so my employer had already submitted returns; probably not true for everyone.


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Jan 2021)

I’d say that real time PAYE reporting is the reason


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## MugsGame (1 Jan 2021)

Yes, but that didn't seem to help this time last year - it was late January 2020 before I could submit my claim for a 2019 refund.


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## Yorky (1 Jan 2021)

Is it possible for PUP recipients to submit the 2020 tax return yet - will Revenue have up to date details of payments received and how they're going to be treated for PRSI and USC purposes?


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## Virgo80 (1 Jan 2021)

Trying to do the return. couldn't find a place to put  'stay and spend' tax credit.


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## relax carry on (1 Jan 2021)

MugsGame said:


> Yes, but that didn't seem to help this time last year - it was late January 2020 before I could submit my claim for a 2019 refund.



Last year was the first year of it so there were still bugs to be worked out which slowed it down for some taxpayers.


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## Codogly (2 Jan 2021)

Anybody know ...when filling a joint tax return it seems like ( probably a GDPR issue ) that both parties need to log on separetly and tick their respective declaration box.  Does that seem right ... previous years my declaration under my logon was all that was required.


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## Adelie (2 Jan 2021)

Virgo80 said:


> Trying to do the return. couldn't find a place to put  'stay and spend' tax credit.



I saw it while I was completing mine - it’s submitted so I can’t tell you exactly where, but as far as I recall it was same main screen as health expenses under a different section.


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## TheBig40 (2 Jan 2021)

Virgo80 said:


> Trying to do the return. couldn't find a place to put  'stay and spend' tax credit.


It’s in the personal tax credit section near the top


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## Virgo80 (2 Jan 2021)

TheBig40 said:


> It’s in the personal tax credit section near the top


Thank you. sorted now.


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## ATC110 (2 Jan 2021)

Yorky said:


> Is it possible for PUP recipients to submit the 2020 tax return yet - will Revenue have up to date details of payments received and how they're going to be treated for PRSI and USC purposes?



I'd like to know the same


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## lemon1984 (4 Jan 2021)

ATC110 said:


> I'd like to know the same


I don't think you can yet. My husband received the wage subsidy for a few weeks last year and we wanted to pay the tax due on this ASAP. He cant file a return online yet, he just gets an error. My account however I can do my return right now to claim my health expenses, but I didn't receive any pandemic payments.


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## fayf (4 Jan 2021)

PUP was not updated when i checked today,
Also the Employment Investment Incentive section is out of date, i raised a ticket with Revenue, double checked and my EII contact, and they told me, they had noticed the Revenue 2020 online return, has not been updated to allow for 100% tax relief on 2020 EII claims, so an update is needed.


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## fayf (4 Jan 2021)

Virgo80 said:


> Thank you. sorted now.


I did this via the Revenue Receipts App Tracker, you can add the receipts in there,and this is picked up, on the tax return,  you can also use it for Medical Expenses, Remote Working Expenses & Other Expenses etc as well. The idea, is, you add the receipts, as they happen, and you add a photo of each receipt.


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## fayf (5 Jan 2021)

According to this article, the PUP 2020 amount, will be updated on the 2020 tax return on January 15th, when Revenue issue “preliminary statements”, so this explains why some of us have noticed the PUP has not been updated on there.

This process, also separates out, the tax liability on PUP as a standalone item, as one can opt to repay this part of your liability over 4 years, commencing in 2022, or pay it in full now.

https://www.*****************.com/taxation-of-the-covid-unemployment-payment.html


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## fayf (5 Jan 2021)

Link not appearing correctly for some reason, its an article on Money Guide Ireland called
“*Taxation of the Covid Unemployment Payment.”*


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## Virgo80 (6 Jan 2021)

Did anyone actually get the liability cert. mine is showing as 'available shortly' since last Saturday.


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## ATC110 (6 Jan 2021)

fayf said:


> According to this article, the PUP 2020 amount, will be updated on the 2020 tax return on January 15th, when Revenue issue “preliminary statements”, so this explains why some of us have noticed the PUP has not been updated on there.



Whereabouts on form 11 should the 2020 PUP amount be listed?



fayf said:


> This process, also separates out, the tax liability on PUP as a standalone item, as one can opt to repay this part of your liability over 4 years, commencing in 2022, or pay it in full now.
> 
> https://www.*****************.com/taxation-of-the-covid-unemployment-payment.html



I don't understand how there could be a *standalone* tax liability on PUP; if a recipient is on the higher rate of €350 from April to December(c.39 weeks) it would amount to €13650, which in itself would be fully offset by individual tax credits?


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## fayf (6 Jan 2021)

ATC110 said:


> Whereabouts on form 11 should the 2020 PUP amount be listed?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how there could be a *standalone* tax liability on PUP; if a recipient is on the higher rate of €350 from April to December(c.39 weeks) it would amount to €13650, which in itself would be fully offset by individual tax credits?


Its because a sizeable chunk of those who received the PUP, will have either a tax & usc  liability, or both.

The PUP was paid out, without taking into account someones PAYE or USC liabilities and they were put in a week 1 tax basis, to prevent a repayment of tax/usc on unused tax credits, or weekly/monthly usc limits.

Tens of Thousands went back to fulltime work over the summer. In the interest of fairness, revenue/government have decided to allow any liabilities due on the PUP, to be repaid over 4 tax years, starting in 2022 to 2025 inclusive, or, a tax payer can choose to pay the full balance due in 2021, if they so wish, once those statements are issued next week, Jan 15th.

To your specific point,you are correct,  a persons “normal”  tax credits will largely offset the PUP PAYE liability in most cases, allthough, there are many scenarios where this will not be the case, but there will still be a USC liability on the PUP payments, which has not been applied to a tax payer.

Some of the scenarios, where a tax payer who received max €350 PUP for an extended period, would actually have a PAYE liability include:

Where an employee is paying into a DC Pension scheme, and was laid off for 6 months or more. They would have 40% tax relief in the early months of 2020 on their pension contributions, and also probably in the final months of 2020, however, when their total income is added up for the year to include the PUP, their total 2020 income may be such that, some of the available 40 % pension relief may not be available, as their total income subject to 40%, may be lower than their pension contributions,this is more likely to happen if employees put large bonusses paid out in first few months of 2020 into AVC’s
Tax relief is based on a calendar year in totality, not a weekly or monthly period.

Another example would be, a tax payer, who had for some reason, reduced tax credits at the start of 2020, which can happen if a 2019 liability was not settled, and the amount owed gave rise to a reduction in tax credits for 2020.

Where a married couple transfer all their credits (except PAYE tax credit) to the other spouse, and the spouse with the reduced credits, received PUP payments at the max, for an extended period, there maybe a PAYE liability, as their reduced credits would not be enough to cover the PAYE liability on the PUP at max rate of €350.

There are other scenarios as well


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## MugsGame (6 Jan 2021)

Virgo80 said:


> Did anyone actually get the liability cert. mine is showing as 'available shortly' since last Saturday.



Mine was there on 1st, but is now unavailable while they process my return and update it.


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## ATC110 (6 Jan 2021)

fayf said:


> Its because a sizeable chunk of those who received the PUP, will have either a tax & usc  liability, or both.



Hi fayf, whereabouts on form 11 should the 2020 PUP amount be listed?


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## fayf (6 Jan 2021)

I use the online tax return, PUP is classed as “Non PAYE Income”, and is in section 3 of the online tax return.

We had both, Job seekers Benefit & PUP in 2020.
The correct job seekers taxable amount, is already appearing in Section 3, but the PUP taxable amount is currently blank.

As previously indicated, the PUP taxable amount, is not expected to be uploaded by Revenue until January 15th, it should be appearing in section 3 Non PAYE Income, at that stage.


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## ATC110 (6 Jan 2021)

fayf said:


> I use the online tax return.
> 
> As previously indicated, the PUP taxable amount, is not expected to be uploaded by Revenue until January 15th, it should be appearing in section 3


Is it possible to manually enter the amount of PUP received in 2020 rather than wait for Revenue to prepopulate the relevant field?


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## fayf (6 Jan 2021)

ATC110 said:


> Is it possible to manually enter the amount of PUP received in 2020 rather than wait for Revenue to prepopulate the relevant field?


Yes, you can, enter the amount in the box, however usually better, to wait for revenue to reconfirm the amount, which should be Friday of next week.


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## fayf (12 Jan 2021)

The PUP amount total for 2020, is now appearing on on my 2020 online tax return


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## fayf (15 Jan 2021)

Statement of Liabilities for 2020 have been uploaded, Revenue site is slow, as a lot online, looking at how much they owe, or, are due to be refunded.

I notice PUP is not liable to USC, this is a surprise to me, as i am sure i read it was subject to USC, but it is not showing as such.


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## Beula1983 (15 Jan 2021)

Still waiting on my statement of liability to upload ... anyone else ?


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## Inspiron (15 Jan 2021)

*USC *and *Age Allowance *errors on the 2020 ROS Offline Form11

I downloaded my pre-populated 2020 Form11 on the 2nd of January. It had all of our correct PAYE details for 2020.

However, the 2020 Offline Form11 is using the 2019 rates and thresholds for *USC *calculations.
The 2% amount should be €8,472 for 2020 not €7,862 and the 4.5% USC amount should be €49,560, not €50,170.
The result is a small incorrect additional USC charge applied for the 2020 Tax Year.
I submitted a ROS Query to Revenue on the 2nd of January.

Also there is a problem with Age Allowance in the 2020 Offline Form11.
If I put in the €245 age allowance in the Credits section for myself and click on "Calculate", it populates my wife's Age Allowance with €245 as well, giving a total of €490, which is correct.
If I then select the "Calculate" section, it only shows an Age Allowance of €245 in the "Credits / Reliefs set against Tax on Income" section.
If I then go back to the Credits section, it has removed my wife's €245 Age Allowance and left mine at €245.

I submitted an *Age Allowance* Query to Revenue via ROS on the 3rd of January.

Everything else that I use is calculating correctly for me in the 2020 Offline Form11 as confirmed by my own Tax parallel spreadsheet.

I prompted Revenue for a response on the 8th January and again on the 14th of January.

I got a response this morning from the ROS Technical Helpdesk as follows, so as of today we do not know when these bugs will be fixed:

"_I refer to your recent enquiries that I have just received in the ROS Technical Helpdesk.   

The issues that you have highlighted have been referred to our development team and they will be fixed in due course. At this stage I do not have a timeline as to when this will be._"


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## MugsGame (15 Jan 2021)

Here's hoping the online return I completed on 1st had correct USC rates. I didn't receive a PUP payment, but perhaps Revenue hadn't intended that anyone would submit their return before today.


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## MugsGame (15 Jan 2021)

Ok so I'm not the only one who has submitted their 2020 return already.


> It’s also worth noting that approximately 143,000 PAYE taxpayers have already submitted income tax returns for 2020 which, in many instances have included claims for additional tax credits such as health expenses, nursing home fees and contributions made to an AVC. These additional credit amounts will be taken into account when calculating the end of year position for these taxpayers and are reflected in the provisional statistics. This is one of the reasons why we are seeing some larger overpayment amounts.


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## Inspiron (15 Jan 2021)

Hi MugsGame,
You can check your detailed tax return to see if the online form used the correct 2020 USC thresholds and rates. Just expand the USC calculation to see the detailed USC rules applied.


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## MugsGame (15 Jan 2021)

Thanks, I've tried to check a few times during the day, but their system is under heavy load and my requests to see 2020 returns error out.

Given that I'm not the only one to have submitted, I expect the rates are correct.


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## fistophobia (16 Jan 2021)

There is a discussion on Boards.ie, all about the SOL,
many people are expecting the tax assessments to be overturned, similar to the water charges.
I know this is crazy talk. Revenue are autonomous, and you would be better negotiating with a brick wall.
It shows the general lack of common sense out there, as this has been flagged for months.
This will take a lot of disposable income out of the economy.


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## Sunny (16 Jan 2021)

fistophobia said:


> There is a discussion on Boards.ie, all about the SOL,
> many people are expecting the tax assessments to be overturned, similar to the water charges.
> I know this is crazy talk. Revenue are autonomous, and you would be better negotiating with a brick wall.
> It shows the general lack of common sense out there, as this has been flagged for months.
> This will take a lot of disposable income out of the economy.



Hardly. We are not talking about very large amounts. It was well flagged. You don't even have to pay cash. You can have your tax credits adjusted. And even then, that won't be until 2022 and will be over 4 years. People got paid. They pay tax. Its not exactly controversial.


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## MugsGame (17 Jan 2021)

My SOL taking into account my tax return is now available online and a refund should issue during the week. Correct 2020 USC bands were applied, so the issue with these being out of date is specific to the offline form. 

It seems my initial post was a little misleading. The document I received on the 1st was actually an Employment Detail Summary, even though I accessed it through the SOL area on Revenue.ie.


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## Inspiron (9 Feb 2021)

Hi Everybody,
Revenue has fixed the ROS Offline Application 2020 Form11 so that it now treats the Age Allowance correctly for joint assessments.

I downloaded the new ROS Offline Form11 this afternoon and compared it with my own Tax Return spreadsheet. The 2020 calculations are now perfectly inline.

The two 2020 ROS Offline Form11 problems that I identified at the beginning of January, have now been resolved.


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## ATC110 (9 Feb 2021)

What’s the advantage of an offline form 11 over completing it in real time?


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## billb (10 Feb 2021)

I'd check your P21 Balancing Statement very carefully as mine bore little relation to the tax return I filled in online
They seemed to have taken one additional income value from my tax return and ignored all other reliefs and credits
So it looks as if what you submit on the online form must be transferred manually somehow otherwise how could such errors be made
This is the second year in a row where its taken the revenue a few attempts to do my assessment correctly


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