# Closure of Mobile Home Park after 40 years. Do we have any rights? posted 07-03-2007



## Bedlam (7 Mar 2007)

Does anybody have any experience of the above?. I received a letter from the owner today saying he was closing after 40 years and giving us 3 months in which to remove the mobile home. I am wondering having had a mobile home there for 20 years do I have any rights?.   

Any feedback welcomed


Thanks


Bedlam


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## cosy (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Do you mind me asking where the park is?


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## Bedlam (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi 

Park is in Ardmore, Co. Wateford


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## shootingstar (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

does this mean theres a cheap mobile home for sale? ;-)


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## Welfarite (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

did you have a contract of any sort with the site owner? What was the agreement re ESB, water, etc..?


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## Bedlam (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

There are 150 mobile homes on the site so I would that a lot of them will be put up for sale.

There was never any contract as such. The cost of services was included in the annual fee.


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## ClubMan (7 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

If it was your _PPR _then I suspect that you might have some statutory rights. If not then I'm not so sure. Might be worth asking a solicitor for a professional  opinion.


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## Bedlam (8 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Clubman

What is PPR?

Thanks

Bedlam


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## Welfarite (8 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

PPR=Principal Private Residence. Presumably doesn't apply in your case as it's a holiday home, right?

Do you know any of the other 150 mobile owners in the park that are in the same position? A group of you might be able to work together to get a solution to your problem.


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## Bedlam (8 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

No it is not my principal residence. The whole park is being closed with the result that 150 people have to find a new location for their mobile homes.

I am really looking for people who moght have experienced a similar situation. 

I feel 3 months is a very unreasonable time limit when you consider how difficult it will be to find another park.

Thanks


Bedlam


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## Vanilla (8 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

You paid an annual fee to park your caravan under a license from the owner of the land.This type of license confers no ownership or tenant rights on the licensee.


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## Bedlam (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Vanilla

Thanks for this information, which is clear. Would you have a view on the notice period given of 3 months is this a reasonable period to expect 150 people to find alternative locations?

Thanks

Bedlam


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## pat127 (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



Vanilla said:


> You paid an annual fee to park your caravan under a license from the owner of the land.This type of license confers no ownership or tenant rights on the licensee.



It occurs to me to wonder if the OP's situation is akin to that of a person renting a room in someone's house, to wit:-

(From Citizensinformation)

"If you choose to rent out a room(s) in your home, you are not covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland. This means that you are not obliged to register with the PRTB as a landlord, provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards. 

This also means that private tenants living in your principal home are living under a "Licensee Agreement" not a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to "reasonable notice" if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes regarding periods of reasonable notice, retention of deposits, and disputes regarding deductions from rent for damage to property that is over and above normal "wear and tear" to the Small Claims Court. "

The reference to taking disputes about periods of reasonable notice to the Small Claims Courts is interesting perhaps?


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## ClubMan (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



pat127 said:


> It occurs to me to wonder if the OP's situation is akin to that of a person renting a room in someone's house, to wit:-


How could it be? Seems to me that it is not a retail issue so the _SCC _would probably not deal with this matter.


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## Vanilla (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi Bedlam, unless you have a written contract which gives a different notice period then in my opinion the notice period is really a matter for the owner. As to whether 3 months is reasonable, well that's a matter for you to decide, I suppose the only thing you could do would be to ask the owner if he would be willing to extend the period.

As I said before this type of arrangement does not confer any tenancy rights so in my opinion you would be wasting your time, money and effort trying to establish said rights.


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## Bedlam (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Vanilla,

Again thanks for your in put and I agree with your views. Last thought on the matter whan can the owner do if I decide to "walk away" and leave my mobile home there. 

Thanks

Bedlam


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## pat127 (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



ClubMan said:


> How could it be? Seems to me that it is not a retail issue so the _SCC _would probably not deal with this matter.



That's an interesting point Clubman and I would have agreed with you but I'm taking the info from the new Citizens Information database. I suppose that can't be absolutely guaranteed to be correct I suppose. 

The following is from the ODCA website describing the SCC:-

"What kind of claims can be dealt with? 


A claim in respect of goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims). 
A claim in respect of minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries) 
A claim in respect of the non-return of a rent deposit."

The definition of a 'business' is the key I think. I can understand how a caravan-park owner can be described as being in business but quite how it applies to a private individual renting out a room is difficult to understand.


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## ubiquitous (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



pat127 said:


> A claim in respect of goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims).
> A claim in respect of minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)
> A claim in respect of the non-return of a rent deposit."



I'm not a legal expert but for the life of me I can't see any connection between the OP's situation and any of the above. Its not even established that the OP has any claim against the business owner - all they want, presumably, is continuity of service in the caravan park?


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## pat127 (9 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



ubiquitous said:


> I'm not a legal expert but for the life of me I can't see any connection between the OP's situation and any of the above. Its not even established that the OP has any claim against the business owner - all they want, presumably, is continuity of service in the caravan park?



In fact all he seems to want is a view on whether 3 months is a reasonable notice period.


"I feel 3 months is a very unreasonable time limit when you consider how difficult it will be to find another park."


"Would you have a view on the notice period given of 3 months is this a reasonable period to expect 150 people to find alternative locations?"

As I understood from citizensinformation that a room-renter in someone's home could apply to the SCC to claim that the notice period was unreasonable then it occurred to me to wonder if the same might apply in bedlam's case. I had hoped that Vanilla might have expressed a view. I have asked the ODCA to clarify if the database is correct.


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## Vanilla (12 Mar 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



Bedlam said:


> Vanilla,
> 
> Again thanks for your in put and I agree with your views. Last thought on the matter whan can the owner do if I decide to "walk away" and leave my mobile home there.
> 
> ...


 

I don't understand why you would want to do this. Is it because the mobile home has no value anymore- that you would have to dispose of it?

I suspect that if this is the case then legally the owner of the site can give you notice and  if you still do not remove it, he can remove and dispose of it and pursue you for the cost of doing so.

Pat127, I don't believe, in my opinion, that a licence to park a caravan would carry any rights or privileges such as a room renter would be afforded, but it's certainly an interesting thought.


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## Bedlam (19 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi 

As a follow on to the above would anybody have experience of putting together a Co-Op of Residents with a view to purchasing the site in question.

I know that it has been done in the past in places like Wexford and Clare

Thanks

Bedlam


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## ajapale (19 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

The closure of Ardmore was discussed by Joe Duffy yesterday.


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Bedlam, putting together a committe/company or association to purchase the site isn't difficult. What might be more difficult would be purchasing the site in the first place ie. pricewise.

Ajapale- what was the gist of the show?


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## Bedlam (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Vanilla

The Joe Duffy show and the Irish Examiner covered the issue on Weds & Thurs. of this week. The concerns raised are very much as covered here by yourself over the last number of weeks i.e Mobile Home owners having no rights in a situation where the owner decides to sell up. What the Mobile home owners are looking for is the opening of the park for this summer as a gesture of goodwill.

There are 166 owners involved and the asking price is 7m.

Thanks

Bedlam


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

So just over €42000 each plus share of stamp duty, costs etc. Then a company ( think it's too big for a residents association) would have to be set up to run the park with contingent costs. What were you paying each year as a licence fee? Then for the future there would have to be agreements as to whether your site can be sold, if so how much for, running the park etc. It could be done I suppose but not without difficulty. If you have access to the names and addresses of all 166 then I suppose the only thing to do is call a meeting and call a vote. I think it will be very hard to get 166 people to agree but I could be pleasantly surprised.

I see they are calling on the owner to open for one last year. I don't see that he/she is under any legal obligation to do so. They may well have their own immediate problems and not be able to do so for whatever reason.


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## Bedlam (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Vanilla,

It is I feel unreasonable of them (the owners) to expect 166 owners to find alternative sites within a 3 month period.. a mobile home measuring 28ft x 10ft isn't exactly something that you can park outside your front dooe.

Coupled with the above is the fact that up to Dec 06 the owners were adamant that they had no intention of closing the site. With the result that owners in good faith upgraded their vans at considerable expense. These same owners are now out of pocket due to a glut of homes on the market. The mobiles are to small for the majority of sites in the area and also Caravan Park owners as a general rule insist that you buy a mobile home directly from them when. 

Finally there are people on the site for over 25 years some over 40 years and to expect them to up and out in 3 months is totally unreasonable, regardless of any issues facing them (the owners)

Bedlam


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

I don't see that three months is unreasonable. You should all have been aware from the start that you had no right or claim to this place. You should have kept this in mind when thinking of upgrading caravans/mobile homes. I'm not sure about this particular park but most I know are run on a seasonal basis- open from April/May to Sept/Oct. You pay for that season. There is never a guarantee that it will be open next year. It's a pity if there is a glut of homes on the market right now but how long could you expect the owner to wait?


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## Bedlam (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Vanilla

As I said in my last post people acted in good faith when changing their Mobile Homes. If it was the case that they (the owners) knew when asked by people about changing that they intended to sell.. then imho opinion the owners were wrong not to inform people accordingly.

Bedlam


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*



Bedlam said:


> Vanilla
> 
> As I said in my last post people acted in good faith when changing their Mobile Homes. If it was the case that they (the owners) knew when asked by people about changing that they intended to sell.. then imho opinion the owners were wrong not to inform people accordingly.
> 
> Bedlam


 
I agree.


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## Bedlam (22 Jun 2007)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

An update here is that the owners have now decided to repen and put the site on the market as a going concern.

Bedlam


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## Tess11 (12 Oct 2008)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi, I was just wondering if there is any further updates on this story.

Thanks


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## Bedlam (28 Oct 2008)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi Tess11

Yes, the park opened for the 2008 season. With a large increase in the annual rent. 

New rules being introduced in 2010 to have van owners cahnge and upgrade their vans where they are deemed to be old and in poor condition.

The park remains in the same ownership.

Bedlam


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## Brianpn (2 May 2009)

*Re: Closure of Caravan/Mobile Home Park*

Hi , I have a mobile home in Wexford and we as residents purchased the park last year , there are a small number of sites now for sale but the residents manage the park so you have control over annual fees and rules.

Have a look at www.kilgormanholidaypark.ie the web site is still under construction but it will give you an idea as to whats on offer in the park.


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