# Suspended, disciplinary hearing...dismissal?



## Evelina (2 Feb 2011)

Hi All,

I am wondering if you could provide some comments on the following situation.

Two weeks ago, my friend X, who works in a manufacturing plant, was joking with his friend Y. As a joke he said "maybe you could cut that cable". They both laughed. Then Y called everybody's attention, took some scissors and made a performance trying to cut the cable and pretending having an electric shock. 

Everybody laughed, including their supervisor. Suddenly Y decided to cut the cable. 

The manager was called and Health and Safety representative as it turned out that it was a live cable connected to some operating machine. Y was lucky that nothing happened.

Y said it was X who told him to cut the cable. He claimed to have taken it seriously.

They were both suspended on the grounds of health and safety breach. The manager said it was a very serious misconduct as it put X's life in danger (and the person's operating on the machine life) and there would be disciplinary action taken.

X is worried as he did not mean to provoke any action. He just made a joke. X cannot believe that Y cut the cable and does not understand why. 

They both have the disciplinary hearing on Friday.
X is worried that he might be dismissed as the company might say it was a gross misconduct.

X believes he shouldn't be punished as hard as Y. 

What are your opinions on that? Do you think that in this case the company will decide to dismiss him? Can his joke be considered as gross misconduct?

Thanks


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## becky (2 Feb 2011)

Obviously this is only my opinion, but I'd consider this gross misconduct.  It being a joke is of no relevance, both are equally at fault. The supervisor also has a case to answer.  

Dismissal is a possibility but the dismissal must be fair.  How employees were inducted will be key, so he needs to pull out his staff hand book.


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## PaddyBloggit (2 Feb 2011)

Health & Safety is a big issue.

The case you outline above is extremely serious and many an employee has been dismissed for playing jokes that infringe on Health & Safety.

Management cannot afford to ignore breaches of H & S.

I remember an incident eons ago when I worked in a plating factory (acids and all that). A member of staff got dunked in a tank of water (a joke- he was getting married) .... Management went cuckoo ... as the staff member could have ended up in a tank of acid.

Employees got a severe dressing down but weren't dismissed.

That for years ago .... Health & Safety is taken more seriously now than then and legislation is strict.

Your friend is in serious trouble. Reprimand/Dismissal etc. are all a possibility.

As *becky* says; get your friend to read the staff handbook and the H & S policies that the company has.


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## alaskaonline (3 Feb 2011)

I agree that this is a very serious matter but I also think there should be a line drawn between "words" and "actions". These are grown up people who are responsible for their "actions". X should be disciplined for making inappropriate jokes but I do not agree that he should be dismissed. The person (Y) who cut the cable made a conscious decision to do so. Nobody held a gun to his head and he is not four years old either to say "I didn't know better". If X would have said jump out of the window what are the odds Y would have done that?


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## Evelina (3 Feb 2011)

Thank you Guys for your replies.

Yes, I agree that this was serious, but I don't believe that X should be dismissed.`It was so unintentional... Unfortunately the company is planning redundancies in a few weeks, so they would be definitively happy to get rid of both of them now. 

Will see tomorrow how the meeting goes.


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## shipibo (3 Feb 2011)

If the company is planning to make people redundant, your friends may be in a good position to dispute company decision if they are sacked.


Have they sought Union / Legal advice on their actions ???

Maybe FLAC can put them in touch with a legal brief

http//:www.flac.ie

Were they informed they could bring a representative into meeting, they should try to contact Union or more likely a solicitor to represent them / him in the meeting if they feel their jobs are in danger


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## Evelina (3 Feb 2011)

Yes, he sought legal advice but was only told that so far the company has followed the disciplinary procedures correctly and was asked to come back if they decide to dismiss him. Then they will take a closer look at all the possibilities and decide if he has a case.

Redundancies are due to happen in a few weeks or so, but they don't know when exactly, on what terms and how many people could be possibly affected.

Yes, a colleague from work (the shop steward) will accompany him at the meeting tomorrow. Union representative is unfortunately not an option for him (not a member 

Thanks


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## Pope John 11 (3 Feb 2011)

Yes, this is not yet a legal issue, its an in-house issue at present. Have a look at the attached LRC document on the Grievance & Disciplinary Procedures Code of Practice. Should the employer follow all the correct procedures in a fair manner then dismissal, if its mis-conduct could be the outcome.

[broken link removed]


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## shipibo (4 Feb 2011)

Wish your friends all the best ..


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## Evelina (4 Feb 2011)

Thanks...

They had a disciplinary hearing today and we will see next week.


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## Seagull (8 Feb 2011)

Was the supervisor also called in for a disciplinary hearing? If he was present, and laughing up till the time the cable was cut, he wasn't exactly discouraging the behaviour.


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## Evelina (9 Feb 2011)

Guys, this is how it all finished.

Today they were called in and X got a written warning and Y got a final written warning.

As far as I know the supervisor did not get any warning.

Probably what saved them both was the fact that on that particular day they were instructed to do some work they were not authorised/trained to, and the company could potentially get into some sort of trouble if this was raised whether by a union representative or a solicitor.

Thanks for your comments


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## Pope John 11 (9 Feb 2011)

Shocking news, great!!!


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## Leo (10 Feb 2011)

Make sure your friend keep well documented notes on all of this should they need to revisit this in future.
Leo


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## Seagull (10 Feb 2011)

Especially the piece about the supervisor being present, laughing until the wire was actually cut, and not facing any sanction at all.


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## pinkyBear (10 Feb 2011)

Hi there, in terms of the original issue - the friend was very stupid, I'm sorry if I come across as being cruel - they are really lucky no-one was injured. 

I knew a guy who worked with my brother, and he is a really nice guy - always up for a joke, and very popular at work. That was until he hid a colleagues insulin (the colleague was a diabetic) and would not give the insulin back, as he thought the guy was messing when the colleague was panicking.. The guy I knew was dismissed.. It was a stupid thing to do....

Your friend got off lightly and I would advise them to steer well clear of the guy with 3 warnings!!!..
P..


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## sheeri (13 Feb 2011)

Ok yes i think its a serious concern from health and safety point of view,
but I would disagree that Y should be served any stronger penalty than x or the supervisor who laughed, or any one else who was present at the site. If y cut the cable in a situation where he was provoked to do it, then the people who provoked him by any means , or the people who encouraged him , and the people who did not oppose the action or encouraging statement , are all equally to be blamed. Hence, I that it would be fair to say that a breach in health and safety code of conduct has occured on part of x, y , supervisor and people present who did not oppose the action, and so disciplinary action like strong written warnings can be expected by x, y and supervisor. While the rest who did not say or do anything to oppose or discourage the action from happening would need to attend health and safety training again such that they are made aware of their responsibility of preventing an accident at work.Hope it all goes ok. Dismissal would be too extreme .


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## shipibo (16 Feb 2011)

I think the outcome was fair.


The fact they were not trained to certain job had no impact on the disiplinary incident and would not make any difference in a right commisioners case.

The Employer acted responsibly, fair play to them.

Both your friends will have the warnings rescinded, and removed from their records in 6 - 12 months period, as long as no other incidents occur ..


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