# De Giro broker



## Username2012

Anyone have experience with this company? Saw it advertised and it looks seriously cheap compared to the others in the market, even the UK brokers. 

Appears to be coordinated write ups in the IT, Indo and the UK papers (looks like launched in UK as well) - which gives me confidence that it is legit. Thanks.


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## RichInSpirit

It's just newly launched for the Irish market but I think it's been around for a few years elsewhere. 
As far as I can tell it's regulated by the Dutch Central bank.


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## gbh2930

Here is their fee comparisons with other platforms: [broken link removed]
Looks very good. If only they also had a PRSA wrapper for trading like Davy does...


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## landlord

What are the correct questions to ask them in terms of whether you shares are secure in the event that this broker goes under.


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## gbh2930

@landlord They have this page on their website about that topic: https://www.degiro.ie/about-degiro/safe-and-reliable.html
But maybe its no harm to try and put a query in to the central bank about them to assure yourself if its a concern: http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/Pages/home.aspx

If anyone does, let the rest of us know what they said about DeGiro.


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## landlord

Response from central bank....

Dear Mr .......


I refer to your email.


The full list of entities regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland is available on our website at the following link:




As there is no reference to a company by the name of Degiro on our register, it would appear that we do not regulate this company and therefore we cannot be of any assistance to you.  As Degiro operates under the regulatory supervision of De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB) and the Financial Markets Authority (AFM) you may wish to contact either of those regulators for the information you require.


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## Username2012

I had a look there, they are on the AFM website (http://www.afm.nl/) and it says they are (using my best google translate dutch....) registered for:

Investment service ( 2:96 ) a Receiving and transmitting orders 17 Sep 2009
Investment service ( 2:96 ) b Execute orders on behalf of clients 28 Feb 2012
Investment service ( 2:96 ) c Investment Sep 17, 2009
Ancillary Service b Lending

Looks to be the real deal.


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## Boyd

Are TDWaterhouse (or other commonly used online brokers) actually regulated by the central bank? I couldnt find them on any PDF at


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## landlord

username123 said:


> Are TDWaterhouse (or other commonly used online brokers) actually regulated by the central bank? I couldnt find them on any PDF at



No...as per my post above.
When I phoned Degiro they said cash and securities late held in a separate account and there is no risk of a customer losing their cash or securities if the company went into liquidation.
I am still not convinced.  How big is this company in Holland?


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## Boyd

landlord said:


> No...as per my post above.
> When I phoned Degiro they said cash and securities late held in a separate account and there is no risk of a customer losing their cash or securities if the company went into liquidation.
> I am still not convinced.  How big is this company in Holland?



Wasnt your above post about Degiro though? I was asking about TDWaterhouse and other online brokers. My point was are Degiro any different from other discount online brokers in regards their (non) regulation with Central Bank.


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## landlord

username123 said:


> Wasnt your above post about Degiro though? I was asking about TDWaterhouse and other online brokers. My point was are Degiro any different from other discount online brokers in regards their (non) regulation with Central Bank.



Oh yes sorry...


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## RichInSpirit

Here's TDWaterhouse's disclaimer page, looks like they are regulated by the Dutch regulator too. 


[broken link removed]



username123 said:


> Are TDWaterhouse (or other commonly used online brokers) actually regulated by the central bank? I couldnt find them on any PDF at


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## landlord

From the Dutch central bank......

Dear Mr. ........,

De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB) has received your e-mail of 23 June 2015 in good order. In answer to your questions we can inform you as follows.

DeGiro BV is listed as an investment firm in the´Register investment firms´of the Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets (AFM). This means that DeGiro BV is subject to the supervision of the AFM. DNB carries out the prudential supervision of this institution. Stichting De Giro, the legal entity which DeGiro BV uses to manage financial instruments and funds of clients, is only subject to the supervision of conduct of the AFM.

To access the register, please click on the following link:
[broken link removed]

Stichting De Giro is not covered by the investor compensation scheme or deposit guarantee scheme.

As the AFM is the supervisor on investment companies in the Netherlands, please contact them for more information on DeGiro BV.

They can be reached through the following contact details:

Postal address:
P.O. Box 11723
1001 GS Amsterdam

Email from Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets (AFM).......

Dear Sir,


With reference to your email dated the 24th of June, we kindly inform you as follows. We are unable to give any guarantees or information on reliability. You should investigate if the asset separation has been fully implemented in the company and is mentioned in the contract. Also you may want to ask DE GIRO tot state how the company has been set up and to assure you that your shares are safe in case of bankruptcy and how they do that.

Furthermore you may want to check [broken link removed].


Should you have any questions you can contact +0800 – 540054 (tollfree) or  (from abroad).


Best regards,

Mr.......

Consumer Information Officer

Communications


Phone: 


Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets

Visitingaddress: Vijzelgracht 50 - Amsterdam

Postaladdress: Po Box 11723 - 1001 GS Amsterdam

As clear as mud?


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## settlement

So the jury is still out on De Giro?


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## landlord

I started investing with Degiro a couple of weeks ago.
The process involved in setting up the account was incredibly easy.  In fact it only took three days, with TD waterhouse it took over three months. 
 Customer service with TD Waterhouse is appalling.  You could be waiting up to 20 minutes or more for them to answer the phone.  Degiro answer the phone within 10 seconds from my experience so far. 
The specific ETFs I wanted were not available with TD waterhouse (ETFs  denominated in euros). Degiro had them all. 
Also Degiros transaction charges are shockingly cheap.


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## Boyd

Also started with them, about a month ago. All good so far. Monthly trades only.

ETF search box in a bit finicky I think, sometimes it didn't find fund but it was actually in the list when I removed my search filter, which was the same. Nothing more than a minor annoyance though


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## landlord

username123 said:


> Also started with them, about a month ago. All good so far. Monthly trades only.
> 
> ETF search box in a bit finicky I think, sometimes it didn't find fund but it was actually in the list when I removed my search filter, which was the same. Nothing more than a minor annoyance though



There are 2 ways of searching for ETFs or shares on the website.
1 Click on place an order, then search......doesn't seem to work that well. 
2 the search window at the top of the screen.....works well !!


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## settlement

Do DeGiro have an inactivity fee?


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## Boyd

No https://www.degiro.ie/data/pdf/ie/IE_Feeschedule_CUSTODY.pdf


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## EdAthlet

someone tried trading IPO's ? Does interface allows to place order immediately after IPO release? or even earlier? I know that TD does. How big is the range of available stocks let's say on NASDAQ DeGiro allows to trade? As I know some online platforms limit list of stocks to the twenty or thirty with the well-known names.


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## Savvy

EdAthlet said:


> someone tried trading IPO's ? Does interface allows to place order immediately after IPO release? or even earlier? I know that TD does. How big is the range of available stocks let's say on NASDAQ DeGiro allows to trade? As I know some online platforms limit list of stocks to the twenty or thirty with the well-known names.



No idea on IPOs but just checked and it is showing me 112 pages of stocks listed on NASDAQ, with 25/page and 21 on the last page for just shy of 2800 stocks.


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## RobFer

There is an all section for the US, which has 328 pages so that is even more.


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## EdAthlet

Thanks guys, I ll test it defenitely.


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## StormCloud

I was looking at setting up with De Giro.
Just doing some searches to find some reviews and I've noticed the same complaint in a lot of places.
Example:

"Firstly, you allow DeGiro to lend your shares to anyone. If the counterparty goes under, and the loss exceeds the margin - you'll suffer the loss. The company claims such provision is "normal" for western brokerages. However, I've never come across such practices on my local market"

This is usually followed with a reply that 'share lending' is standard practice and nothing to worry about.
I wonder does anyone with a bit more knowledge have a take on this?


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## Username2012

StormCloud said:


> I was looking at setting up with De Giro.
> Just doing some searches to find some reviews and I've noticed the same complaint in a lot of places.
> Example:
> 
> "Firstly, you allow DeGiro to lend your shares to anyone. If the counterparty goes under, and the loss exceeds the margin - you'll suffer the loss. The company claims such provision is "normal" for western brokerages. However, I've never come across such practices on my local market"
> 
> This is usually followed with a reply that 'share lending' is standard practice and nothing to worry about.
> I wonder does anyone with a bit more knowledge have a take on this?



Funds often lend securities to make money. Likewise DeGiro does because it is super cheap and they have to pay costs somehow. 

As you rightly say, typical brokers don't lend securities. So they cost more but are perhaps less risky.


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## 27cyrix

I get a 17.5 euro taken from my DeGiro account as Giro Exchange Connection Fee Till 2015

Did anyone see this fee in the DeGiro account?


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## Boyd

Fiver for me. Emailed to ask what this is


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## Boyd

username123 said:


> Fiver for me. Emailed to ask what this is


Reply from them already..,..

"it is listed in the fee schedule under ‘setting up trade possibilities’. This is a fee we charge to subscribe to different exchanges and we charge EUR 2.50 per year per exchange.


As you have made trades on two exchanges other than your home exchange you have been charged 5 EUR for the previous year"

So it's a fee to trade, based on number of exchanges you use.


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## Username2012

Just checked myself and have the same charge, unfortunate as I have no cash in the account....


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## Cian McCann

Any update on how safe it is to use Degiro due to the fact they lend out securities to a 3rd party? With the amount of money they have in assets its hard to see them blow up and for everyone to lose their savings. But even tho they are regulated by the AFM and the Dutch Central Bank it seemed to me like neither of these were prepared to provide clarification on the previous page?

Reason I am asking is I just opened an account and I plan on investing into a portfolio of 5 etfs each month through them. If I had to use any other irish broker the transaction charges would not make it worth my while over choosing an Irish life fund or robo investor.


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## Boyd

Not sure what "update" you are expecting exactly. Degiro isnt going to ring one of us and say "everything is guaranteed lads"!!

You can open two versions of Degiro account - one that allows security lending and one that doesn't. See list of fees on their site for the differences between the two. Pick the non-lending one obviously if you dont like the sounds of the lending.


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## sabre Man

Cian McCann said:


> Any update on how safe it is to use Degiro due to the fact they lend out securities to a 3rd party? With the amount of money they have in assets its hard to see them blow up and for everyone to lose their savings. But even tho they are regulated by the AFM and the Dutch Central Bank it seemed to me like neither of these were prepared to provide clarification on the previous page?
> 
> Reason I am asking is I just opened an account and I plan on investing into a portfolio of 5 etfs each month through them. If I had to use any other irish broker the transaction charges would not make it worth my while over choosing an Irish life fund or robo investor.



I've had no issues so far after being with them for about 6 months. I think the probability of any issues due to share lending is very small. If word gets out that investors are losing their shares, I bet DeGiro would lose a lot of customers very quickly. Therefore, if it sometimes does happen, it would make more sense for DeGiro to take a loss and replace your shares from their own pocket.


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## Money Mags

Cian McCann said:


> Any update on how safe it is to use Degiro due to the fact they lend out securities to a 3rd party? With the amount of money they have in assets its hard to see them blow up and for everyone to lose their savings. But even tho they are regulated by the AFM and the Dutch Central Bank it seemed to me like neither of these were prepared to provide clarification on the previous page?
> 
> Reason I am asking is I just opened an account and I plan on investing into a portfolio of 5 etfs each month through them. If I had to use any other irish broker the transaction charges would not make it worth my while over choosing an Irish life fund or robo investor.



Hi Cian,

Investing in 5 ETFS (I'm presuming UCITS) every month sounds like a Tax nightmare, 8yr deemed disposal, no loss right off etc..

Have you read the below post:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/thread...or-irish-residents.199443/page-2#post-1456312

Might be worth a read.

Just flagging encase you weren't aware.

Cheers


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## dardy

sabre Man said:


> I've had no issues so far after being with them for about 6 months. I think the probability of any issues due to share lending is very small. If word gets out that investors are losing their shares, I bet DeGiro would lose a lot of customers very quickly. Therefore, if it sometimes does happen, it would make more sense for DeGiro to take a loss and replace your shares from their own pocket.



According to Amsterdam Trader the DeGiro pockets are quite empty. Tried unsuccessfully to sell a stake in the business earlier in the year


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## sabre Man

dardy said:


> According to Amsterdam Trader the DeGiro pockets are quite empty. Tried unsuccessfully to sell a stake in the business earlier in the year



DeGiro reported €1,3 million profit in the first quarter:
http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2016/07/shrinking-binck.html#more-3940


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## Sarenco

dardy said:


> According to Amsterdam Trader the DeGiro pockets are quite empty.



Who (or what) is Amsterdam Trader?


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## sabre Man

Sarenco said:


> Who (or what) is Amsterdam Trader?



According to the disclaimer:
This is a personal web site, with the posts reflecting the opinion of its author. The information on this site is provided for discussion purposes only, and are not investment recommendations. Under no circumstances does this information represent a recommendation to buy or sell securities.

So basically it's a blog.


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## dardy

sabre Man said:


> According to the disclaimer:
> This is a personal web site, with the posts reflecting the opinion of its author. The information on this site is provided for discussion purposes only, and are not investment recommendations. Under no circumstances does this information represent a recommendation to buy or sell securities.
> 
> So basically it's a blog.



Whether it's a blog or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Degiro operates out of the Netherlands and the CBI have zero oversight on their business here as a result. Doing a little bit of local research on such companies would be recommended for anyone using them.


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## dardy

sabre Man said:


> DeGiro reported €1,3 million profit in the first quarter:
> 
> So it says. Also says their balance sheet is running empty. It's quite possible this guy has some axe to grind with Degiro. Could all be complete bullshit. I for one found his series of articles on Degiro to be quite off putting:
> 
> - Degiro searching for HIQs millions
> - Degiro introduces secret costs
> - How Degiro screws clients
> - Degiro ignores the elephant
> - Degiro clients act as counterparty for own hedgefund


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## jim

Their website is very hard to use - does anyone else think this? As soon as you log in your are confronted with a space age dashboard.

How does one simply buy a few shares on it?


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## sabre Man

I think the easiest way is to first search for a product and add it as a favorite. Then use the B and S buttons for buying and selling.


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## JimmyBarryMurph

Does anyone have any experience trading with the Rubicoin Invest app yet? These two options seem to be the cheapest thus far in terms of fees / charges. Although as far as I know you are still trading through a 3rd party broker via the rubicoin app.


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## llgon

Username2012 said:


> Funds often lend securities to make money. Likewise DeGiro does because it is super cheap and they have to pay costs somehow.
> 
> As you rightly say, typical brokers don't lend securities. So they cost more but are perhaps less risky.



I have just read Rory Gillen's booklet - Start Thy Purse to Fattening: A Guide to Sound Investing, which is the subject of a separate thread.  I found the booklet very helpful but it has raised a query for me in relation to this thread. 

Page 56 deals with security of assets:
'The same regulations apply to all stockbrokers in regard to the security of client assets. For that reason, your assets are as secure with online brokers as they are with traditional brokers.  The broker must hold your cash balances through traditional banks and shares and bonds bought on your behalf must be held by a third-party global custodian. These measures ensure, as far as they can, segregation of duties and that your assets remain safe in the event that the stockbroker itself gets into financial difficulty.'

What 'the same regulations' are is unclear to me having read the full booklet.  Does this quote apply only to brokers registered with the Central Bank of Ireland?  I wish to register with a broker and wonder why these standards do not seem to apply to DeGiro, this seems to be the most likely explanation.


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## Markel

llgon said:


> I have just read Rory Gillen's booklet - Start Thy Purse to Fattening: A Guide to Sound Investing, which is the subject of a separate thread.  I found the booklet very helpful but it has raised a query for me in relation to this thread.
> 
> Page 56 deals with security of assets:
> 'The same regulations apply to all stockbrokers in regard to the security of client assets. For that reason, your assets are as secure with online brokers as they are with traditional brokers.  The broker must hold your cash balances through traditional banks and shares and bonds bought on your behalf must be held by a third-party global custodian. These measures ensure, as far as they can, segregation of duties and that your assets remain safe in the event that the stockbroker itself gets into financial difficulty.'
> 
> What 'the same regulations' are is unclear to me having read the full booklet.  Does this quote apply only to brokers registered with the Central Bank of Ireland?  I wish to register with a broker and wonder why these standards do not seem to apply to DeGiro, this seems to be the most likely explanation.



I imagine that's the case - DeGrio are not Irish but do have a very good and extremely competitive service. Their customer service should be able to tell you what segregation etc. they have. If you are investing a lot of money though for peace of mind there is no harm going with a local broker, the cost difference will be small as a %


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## MrEarl

It would be great if a Moderator could merge this thread with the other one: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/degiro-anyone-know-anything-about-them.202289/





Markel said:


> ... If you are investing a lot of money though for peace of mind there is no harm going with a local broker, the cost difference will be small as a %



If someone is investing a lot of money and wants peace of mind, then they should diversify and not put all their eggs in one basket - use more than one broker is the right move, not to just assume that using a local broker will put all concerns at rest !


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