# Allowing my daughter to live in our holiday home rent-free?



## Gorteen (1 Jan 2023)

We have just bought a home near the West coast, which we plan to use as a holiday / weekend retreat. Our daughter (single, no kids) lives in the general area of our new purchase. Can she live there rent-free (to allow her save her current rental money for a deposit for a house/apartment or will she have a 'revenue issue'? 
The basic concern I have is that doing something nice for an adult child might cause more problems than it solves. It just seems a shame that it might be better to leave our new purchase empty when we are not there!  
Any helpful advice?


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jan 2023)

Revenue is not really interested in such issues. 

But let's say you do everything by the book and she makes a return.   (You have no liability) 

She will be deemed to have received a gift equal to the rent - say €7,000
She gets a small gift allowance of €3,000  ( maybe even €6,000 with €3,000 from you and €3,000 from your spouse) 
Subject to CAT:  €4,000

She is entitled to liftetime gifts and inheritances of €335,000 tax-free.
So she will have "only" €331,00 left. 

Brendan


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## DannyBoyD (1 Jan 2023)

Gorteen said:


> nice for an adult child might cause more problems than it solves


Likely it will & not just in regards to revenue / tax situation.


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## KOW (1 Jan 2023)

Gorteen said:


> We have just bought a home near the West coast, which we plan to use as a holiday / weekend retreat. Our daughter (single, no kids) lives in the general area of our new purchase. Can she live there rent-free (to allow her save her current rental money for a deposit for a house/apartment or will she have a 'revenue issue'?
> The basic concern I have is that doing something nice for an adult child might cause more problems than it solves. It just seems a shame that it might be better to leave our new purchase empty when we are not there!
> Any helpful advice?


Sure is she not just enjoying a stay in the family holiday home. Keep the bills in your name.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Likely it will & not just in regards to revenue / tax situation.



These vague comments contribute very little. 

If you see problems for the OP, then you should specify them. 

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Jan 2023)

Brendan’s correct, Revenue have very little interest in cases like this.

What’s suggested makes eminent sense.

There should be two lots of €3k exemption, so a €6k shelter, plus you can apply a ‘caretaker discount’ to the market rent to reflect the fact that she’s looking after an otherwise vacant property for you. That can be 25-40%.


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## DannyBoyD (1 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> These vague comments contribute very little.
> 
> If you see problems for the OP, then you should specify them.
> 
> Brendan


Giving free accomodation to off-spring frequently leads to rows and disagreements over time.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Giving free accomodation to off-spring frequently leads to rows and disagreements over time



Maybe it does, but the advantages of saving the rent elsewhere and looking after the property hugely outweighs that risk. And that risk can be mitigated. 

If I lived in Dublin and my parents allowed my sister who lives in Galway to stay in their holiday home in Galway, I don't think I would really fight over it.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (1 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Giving free accomodation to off-spring frequently leads to rows and disagreements over time.


The daughter could be an only child from what has been posted. As Brendan has said, vague posts simply sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt, don't really add much to the conversation.


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## RedOnion (1 Jan 2023)

There is no tax issue, but 2 other observations. 

@DannyBoyD  has raised a valid point to consider. You've 2 other children that you might not be able to help in the same way when the time comes. Make sure communication is clear with all your children so expectations aren't set that you can't meet.

And on a practical level, it's very important that your daughter manages her finances carefully in advance of applying for a mortgage. Without rent payments to evidence affordability, she should be disciplined in setting aside adequate regular savings monthly, and not dipping into them for any reason.


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## becky (1 Jan 2023)

Can the parents just draw up a rental agreement and charge a low rent. Insert clauses about visiting etc.


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## Gorteen (1 Jan 2023)

becky said:


> Can the parents just draw up a rental agreement and charge a low rent. Insert clauses about visiting etc.


Then I'm into the 'landlord space' that, from past experiences, I don't want to get back into again.


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## DannyBoyD (1 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> The daughter could be an only child from what has been posted. As Brendan has said, vague posts simply sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt, don't really add much to the conversation.


And yet this non-observation does?


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## DannyBoyD (1 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Maybe it does, but the advantages of saving the rent elsewhere and looking after the property hugely outweighs that risk. And that risk can be mitigated.


The impact of family fall-out is significant, it's not a risk to be taken lightly.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> The impact of family fall-out is significant, it's not a risk to be taken lightly.



The impact of poverty from paying very high rent while a house remains empty is more significant.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (1 Jan 2023)

Gorteen said:


> The basic concern I have is that doing something nice for an adult child might cause more problems than it solves.


What sort of problems do you have in mind?


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## dubdub123 (1 Jan 2023)

I remember a friend of mine who had a few rentals in the US saying how careful she was when renting to strangers.. and was twice as vigilant when renting to her daughter. If your daughter is in a relationship etc and it was to break down, things can get messy. Or if person wants to try claim HAP etc.. you never know what someone could do. 
Do the nice thing if you can but keep yourself covered in case of some negative situation.


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## DannyBoyD (2 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The impact of poverty from paying very high rent while a house remains empty is more significant.
> 
> Brendan


I don't see any indications of poverty in this family dynamic.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Jan 2023)

Gorteen said:


> Can she live there rent-free (to allow her save her current rental money for a deposit for a house/apartment



Maybe "poverty" is the wrong word.

But you would seem to prefer that she pays rent to someone outside the family and leave a home empty to living in a home owned by her parents? 

Just in case some unspecified problem might arise in the future!

Brendan


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## DannyBoyD (2 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But you would seem to prefer that she pays rent to someone outside the family and leave a home empty to living in a home owned by her parents?
> 
> Just in case some unspecified problem might arise in the future!


What I would prefer is immaterial; it's the OPs decision to make.

Family divisions can and do happen with these sorts of ad-hoc arrangements.  It's not unknown for feuds and falling-out to lead to long term estrangements.

If I were looking at helping out an adult off-spring; I think a lump-sum & let them make their own choices would be the way I'd go.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (2 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> If I were looking at helping out an adult off-spring; I think a lump-sum & let them make their own choices would be the way I'd go.


Except rent free use of a property is much, much cheaper.

From experience that kind of stuff causes far less resentment in families than some siblings getting more cash than others.


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## DannyBoyD (2 Jan 2023)

The difference being that the lump-sum approach can be applied equally to all.

Whereas the 'free gaff' generally cannot.

I would add also that giving a lump-sum leaves the agency & decision making with the adult off-spring; providing free accomodation can lead to a more 'dependent' mind-set.


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## ClubMan (2 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Whereas the 'free gaff' generally cannot.


But, as Brendan already suggested, it's possible to put a fair financial value on it and, if necessary, adjust gifts/inheritances for other family members proportionally.


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Jan 2023)

Scenarios like this one happen all the time without incident.

And the caretaker discount reflects the fact that the parents are getting something out of the deal as well; their property isn’t vacant (security, frozen pipes, etc).

The type of person who’d object to a scenario like this is likely to cause conflict anyway in relation to something else. An eejit will always find a way to be an eejit.


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## DannyBoyD (2 Jan 2023)

Gordon Gekko said:


> eejit will always find a way to be an eejit.


Indeed - however I know of two instances where it was the off-spring getting the benefit who ended up acting the maggot & caused family divisions that still persist.


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## KOW (2 Jan 2023)

Gorteen said:


> We have just bought a home near the West coast, which we plan to use as a holiday / weekend retreat. Our daughter (single, no kids) lives in the general area of our new purchase. Can she live there rent-free (to allow her save her current rental money for a deposit for a house/apartment or will she have a 'revenue issue'?
> The basic concern I have is that doing something nice for an adult child might cause more problems than it solves. It just seems a shame that it might be better to leave our new purchase empty when we are not there!
> Any helpful advice?


The only problem you outline is regarding revenue. If you trust your daughter and as most parents want to help a child out my advise would be go ahead. Opportunities as such do not present very often. She is using the property as any of the family may do as a holiday retreat. Bills in your name. Go for it.


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## ClubMan (2 Jan 2023)

KOW said:


> The only problem you outline is regarding revenue.


What problem?


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## KOW (2 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> What problem?


Exactly. On a separate note altogether. I have put on 10lbs over the extended Xmas season. That is a real problem


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## The Horseman (2 Jan 2023)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Brendan’s correct, Revenue have very little interest in cases like this.
> 
> What’s suggested makes eminent sense.
> 
> There should be two lots of €3k exemption, so a €6k shelter, plus you can apply a ‘caretaker discount’ to the market rent to reflect the fact that she’s looking after an otherwise vacant property for you. That can be 25-40%.


Could you provide link to the caretaker discount please. I have found details of caretaker discount for try before you buy and also new houses but this seems to be more a once off rather than ongoing. 

I would be interested in finding out more about the caretaker discount you reference above.


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## Look ahead (2 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> What sort of problems do you have in mind?


She may become very settled in this lovely holiday home.....maybe too.settled as when the time comes for her to
 vacate the proerty, she may well refuse to.  

A better way would be to chat with the daughter and go through other options with her. Personally i would give her a deposit towards getting her own rental.


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## PaddyBloggit (2 Jan 2023)

Look ahead said:


> She may become very settled in this lovely holiday home.....maybe too.settled as when the time comes for her to
> vacate the proerty, she may well refuse to.
> 
> A better way would be to chat with the daughter and go through other options with her. Personally i would give her a deposit towards getting her own rental.



In fairness, if the OP can't trust his own daughter, he might as well disown her now.

Why would he give her a deposit to rent, when a house within the family is available for her use.

I think the OP is overthinking the whole thing. You have a house, your daughter needs accomodation locally and it would be step in the right direction for her financially to allow her live in it rent free so that she can build up a savings' fund.

I can't see Revenue losing too much sleep over this one. It's the parents' holiday home. The daughter's side of the deal is that she gets to look after the house for her parents while she lives in it rent free.

Even if there's a financial cost to the arrangement from a Revenue point of view, I think the family reward for it well supersedes that.

Go for it Gorteen, the smile you'll put on your daughter's face will be worth it.


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## ClubMan (2 Jan 2023)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I think the OP is overthinking the whole thing.


I don't think it's the original poster that's overthinking it to be fair...


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## DannyBoyD (3 Jan 2023)

I don't believe its 'overthinking'.

It's being aware of possible unintended consequences, based on known experiences.

You also need to consider how your off-spring will feel about you landing down on weekends to what they now consider to be their home.

After considering all aspects, I'm sure that the OP can make their own decision.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> It's being aware of possible unintended consequences,



And balancing them against the intended consequences of not wasting money on rent and keeping the house occupied. 

Brendan


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## DannyBoyD (3 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> wasting money on rent


Part of a wider discussion, but when paying rent is providing a roof over your head, I don't understand why we persist in seeing it as "wasted".

We don't talk about "wasting" money on gas to get heat.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Part of a wider discussion, but when paying rent is providing a roof over your head, I don't understand why we persist in seeing it as "wasted".
> 
> We don't talk about "wasting" money on gas to get heat.


I presume that Brendan means the "excess" that's wasted because a more economic form of rental is available and not taken for fear of vague potential hitches that might arise in certain circumstances.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> I presume that Brendan means the "excess" that's wasted because a more economic form of rental is available and not taken for fear of vague potential hitches that might arise in certain circumstances.



Thanks Clubman, but Danny knows well what I meant.

Brendan


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## Cavanbhoy (3 Jan 2023)

The only issue OP brought up  was ,could there be a problem with revenue which has been addressed.
Seems like a no brainer to me just let the Daughter live there instead of paying unnecessary rent elsewhere.


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## Gordon Gekko (3 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> Part of a wider discussion, but when paying rent is providing a roof over your head, I don't understand why we persist in seeing it as "wasted".
> 
> We don't talk about "wasting" money on gas to get heat.


I think it’s fair to call rent “wasted” money when the person’s parents have a vacant property in the same part of the country and are happy to let her stay in it rent-free while she saves to buy a home.


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## LS400 (3 Jan 2023)

Rightly or wrongly, I wouldn't have even considered the situation of the op worthy of a difficults night sleep at all. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to inform revenue in the slightest.

Throwing different scenarios at the issue for reason not to,, well, we could be here all night. 

I would be pretty sure, most normal thinking folk, would absolutely help their daughter out in this situation, and not invite trouble where there is none.

I would 100% do the same.


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## dubdub123 (3 Jan 2023)

LS400 said:


> Rightly or wrongly, I wouldn't have even considered the situation of the op worthy of a difficults night sleep at all. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to inform revenue in the slightest.
> 
> Throwing different scenarios at the issue for reason not to,, well, we could be here all night.
> 
> ...



I think most people would want to help, however its better to go in with a full understanding of potential pit falls.  One of the main issues here is if the daughter moved a friend or partner in with her to the holiday home , what rights would they have? Better to have upfront rules


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Jan 2023)

Hi dubdub

If you come across a car crash - would you help or would you move on by? You could be sued for doing something wrong if you helped out. Be careful. 

Brendan


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## LS400 (3 Jan 2023)

Ah com’n now, this I think is possibly scenario 365..

I know folk just want to give the what if position on this, which is fair enough.. but seriously, if my daughter was to act the maggot with her parents on any of the hundreds of reasons that can be given as to why not do the right thing, then, that would be my devastation, and nothing else would compare.

I think you have the make on your off spring, I have a pal, whose daughter, has brought her fair share of trouble to his door, he wouldn’t do what the op is doing, he’d need his head examined if he did..


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## Gorteen (3 Jan 2023)

Thanks to everyone for their comments which have helped me in my decision.... 
Kind regards,
Gorteen


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi dubdub
> 
> If you come across a car crash - would you help or would you move on by? You could be sued for doing something wrong if you helped out. Be careful.
> 
> Brendan


This thread is a bit of a car crash and they've stuck around...


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## DannyBoyD (3 Jan 2023)

Brendan Burgess said:


> You could be sued for doing something wrong if you helped out. Be careful.


This is not true.


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## ClubMan (3 Jan 2023)

DannyBoyD said:


> This is not true.


Not necessarily.





						DCC clamper fixed a puncture for my wife but damaged my car. Can I sue?
					

My wife got a puncture due a screw sticking in the tyre . She pulled in and parked . A DCC parking attendant changed the tyre for her to put the spare wheel in . In  doing so he jacked the car on the frame instead of under the car in the correct location. The underbody is now bent as a result ...



					www.askaboutmoney.com


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## DannyBoyD (4 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is someone venting.

Show me where a case was brought successfully.


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## T McGibney (4 Jan 2023)

ClubMan said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Citing as evidence another AAM thread, with no names or other details available to confirm it ever happened let alone led to any action being taken?


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2023)

It was a joke.


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## bish123 (5 Jan 2023)

Some non-financial things to consider- 

1. Why did you buy this property in first place ? It seems the primary intent was holidays home and not rent it out. And yet you are thinking of doing completely opposite - renting (with or without rent) For sure, it will not longer be a holidays/ weekend respite for you.
2. Where did the idea of giving 'free accommodation' to an adult child come from? Family members can be mean in putting parents in very difficult positions of saying 'No'.
3. While it seems good idea to help out your child, you are basically paying for thier accommodation. How are your finances before you do that ?


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## Look ahead (5 Jan 2023)

bish123 said:


> Some non-financial things to consider-
> 
> 1. Why did you buy this property in first place ? It seems the primary intent was holidays home and not rent it out. And yet you are thinking of doing completely opposite - renting (with or without rent) For sure, it will not longer be a holidays/ weekend respite for you.
> 2. Where did the idea of giving 'free accommodation' to an adult child come from? Family members can be mean in putting parents in very difficult positions of saying 'No'.
> 3. While it seems good idea to help out your child, you are basically paying for thier accommodation. How are your finances before you do that ?


You echo my sentiments here.
I read  a headline recently that up to 50% of american parents are helping out their adult children, some of whom are in their 30s 40s and even 50s. Whether the stats are similiar here is debatable.  Its like an accepted thing nowadays.  
It does absolutely nothing for the adult 'Child' except create a dependancy when they should be encouraged to stand in their own 2 feet. Mammy and Daddy wont always be there to fund their free housing needs.


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## KOW (5 Jan 2023)

So all you parents out there why did you buy your principal residence? I want you all to toss out any son or daughter over the age of say 23.
Where did you ever get the idea of giving free accommodation to these adult wasters? 
You are only creating a dependancy culuture. Out out out.


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## Salvadore (Yesterday at 6:55 PM)

DannyBoyD said:


> Giving free accomodation to off-spring frequently leads to rows and disagreements over time.


Agreed.I don’t think there’s anything negative about pointing the possibility of family disputes, notwithstanding the obvious financial advantages.


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## Salvadore (Yesterday at 8:07 PM)

KOW said:


> So all you parents out there why did you buy your principal residence? I want you all to toss out any son or daughter over the age of say 23.
> Where did you ever get the idea of giving free accommodation to these adult wasters?
> You are only creating a dependancy culuture. Out out out.


All joking aside, it was never easy to buy a first home but now it’s become impossible.

It’s the removal of hope that really galls. I doubt if young adults today would choose to hang off their parents but they really have little choice.

Years ago they’d emigrate because they couldn’t get a job here. Now they can get a job no problem. They just can’t afford to progress.


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## Gordon Gekko (Yesterday at 10:09 PM)

Because the world has changed. My folks bought their first home on a lower multiple of income than someone can now. 

If my kids decide to be primary school teachers they’ll be doing an incredibly important job but getting paid peanuts and won’t be able to buy a house in Dublin. Meanwhile, I’ve made a few bob sitting at a desk and “moving around bits of paper” as my Mum says. Why wouldn’t I help them?

These latest generations are the first in the Western world to be doing worse than their parents, that’s the crux of the issue.


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