# Adults and computer gaming



## RMCF (8 Apr 2010)

This isn't meant as a dig at anyone here, but its just something that I have wondered about in recent years after listening to friends and work colleagues.

When did playing computer games become acceptable for grown adults (mostly men)?

I was a child of the late 70s/80s and was a bit of a computer geek myself (, Atari VCS, Spectrum, C64, Atari ST, Amiga) and spent a lot of time playing games, but the interest faded when I hit about 17 or 18.

Now I know many many people in their 30s and 40s who play computer games every day/night and I just can't understand it. Maybe its just me?


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## Caveat (8 Apr 2010)

I kind of agree. I'm the same vintage as you but my interest stayed well into my mid 20s. I still play the odd thing in arcades etc kind of out of curiosity when circumstances and time allow - once or twice a year maybe. 

I'm too basic in terms of games though - I only really ever liked blowing things up or killing things. Couldn't really be arsed with all that strategy mullarkey that makes a game last two and a half weeks.

For me it was partly the increasing popularity of these games that started to turn me off.

Although TBH the main reason I don't have a PS or similar is for fear of addiction so maybe that tells you something.


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## Towger (8 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> Now I know many many people in their 30s and 40s who play computer games every day/night and I just can't understand it. Maybe its just me?


 
Nope not just you, I see no interest in it. I admit to playing a little multi player Doom when it was first out, but half the fun was connecting the PCs togeather via Novell and using a £20K video protector! We spent as much time aligning up the RGB lenses as playing the game Anyone interested in 50m of RG58 cable?


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## DerKaiser (8 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> When did playing computer games become acceptable for grown adults (mostly men)?


 
Not many adults played games in the 80s because

1. They were relatively new technology
2. The games were more simplistic

As the first generation of kids to play video games grew up, it would be strange if some people didn't stick to them.

Also, many of the games are aimed at adults, Grand Theft Auto for example has an 18s cert and would have been targetted at 18 to 30 year olds.

You might also ask 'When did it become acceptable for adults to watch cartoons?'.

Like video games, many cartoons (e.g. South Park & Family Guy) are now targetted at adults and much of the content is much too clever (and even risque) for kids.

You could also ask 'When did it become acceptable for adults to join social networking sites?', after all these started out with Bebo, etc for kids.


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## Graham_07 (8 Apr 2010)

Caveat said:


> - I only really ever liked blowing things up or killing things. Couldn't really be arsed with all that strategy mullarkey that makes a game last two and a half weeks.



I loved Grand Theft Auto and bought the game for Xbox ( my son had the machine). Played it I guess about once a week for ages. Didn't get much into the plot just loved driving and crashing cars and shooting things up.  Then the machine broke he wasn't pushed about it and that was the end of GTA. I also enjoyed Microsoft's Flight Simulator and recently bought it for PC at the huge cost of €10. PLayes it 3 or 4 times in total.  Apart from that I'd have no real interest in computer games anymore.  I think that the keystrokes / controller buttons required on some of these tactical first person shoot-em-up games have become too much for the muddle-aged mind  .


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## dockingtrade (8 Apr 2010)

its perfectly acceptbale for adults to play computer games, join social networks etc, i think the problem is when they become totally consumed by them at the detriment to themsleves and those around them. They end up having nothing to say on these sites, their status is auto updated by what they doing.

I know a guy who spends all weekend playing some game (not pacman) has a wife and young kids, and works during the week. Also lost contact with his friends, not too worried about that,  but for the wife and  kids its not good.


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## Betsy Og (8 Apr 2010)

I got back into games a little bit in the last year or two (&I'm over 30), just bought a few basic PC ones cheaps as chips, Moto GP is good craic but fairly hard (bike keeps crashing!).

While the graphics are a lot better now, in some games theres a lot of rigmarole & plot in getting started, I just wanna blow stuff up !!

What is great for nostalgia is to download an emulator for free (google MAME) and then download a few old arcade games (romworld etc.).

I spent on average, I'd say, 2hrs a month, just when bored. As other posters have said theres no harm in it as long as it doesnt stop you doing more useful stuff  ......... like watching telly & surfing d'internet !!!!!


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## MANTO (8 Apr 2010)

More and more Adults are gaming now due to the advancements in Technology.

Compare a PS3 to an Atari.

Gaming has become far more intelligent over the years and a hell of a lot more interactive.

Take the development of Heavy Rain by Sony. This is one example of the evolution of Gaming and its rapidly going to continue.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/02/review-heavy-rain/


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## Caveat (8 Apr 2010)

Mmmm. Saw the TV ads for this game and have to say that it looks very impressive.


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## MANTO (8 Apr 2010)

I wouldnt be a big gamer myself but i have to say I am hoping they release it for the PC.


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## Ancutza (8 Apr 2010)

I'm 39 and my daughter is going on 3. I recently traded the PS2 for an Xbox 360 and it wasn't bought with her in mind if you know what I mean.  About two mornings a week before the girls are stirring I'll play Modern Warfare 2 online against my cousins in the States (who are 36 and 41 respectively) for an hour before going to work. 6am here and 11pm there.  Perfect!  I'll also usually grab an hour or so once or twice a week to play some other games but, since my preferences are for 1st person shooters, that precludes them being played in front of the youngster. Orders from the Boss! Usually happens when they are out and about.

I never really played computer games until I was in my early 30's but until you get into a cracking game (like 'Medal of Honour' or 'Silent Hill') you will probably never understand the attraction.  Most of the time I'm a well-balanced, happily married Dad with my own business. However, just show me a russian with a gun pointed at me at 6am in the morning,from whom I have to capture the blue-print of a new missile design,  and I go postal!!!!


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## RMCF (8 Apr 2010)

I hear whats being said about HEavy Rain, and how some have compared it to a great TV show or film, but if thats the case, why not watch a great TV show or film instead?


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## Graham_07 (8 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> I hear whats being said about HEavy Rain, and how some have compared it to a great TV show or film, but if thats the case, why not watch a great TV show or film instead?



Yeah like The West Wing. Best thing I ever got was the entire boxed set. Finished it few months ago, about time to start again I think


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## truthseeker (8 Apr 2010)

I would play more games if they made more games I liked.

I like a game where I get to wander around different areas, look at things, look for things, collect things for use in other areas, solve puzzles and do a small bit of fighting/killing/avoiding the baddies.

I got hours of entertainment out of Tomb Raider and Silent Hill (on PSP) but everything else I looked at seemed to be more shoot-em-up, drive/race, blow-things-up, fight-things or seem to need a lot more skill than I have to play.

The other problem I have is that the games are expensive, so you check out online reviews, look at screen shots etc...but you can still end up dropping a lot of money on something that ends up being boring. Maybe Im just not committed enough


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## aonfocaleile (8 Apr 2010)

I was into games as a teenager - SNES mainly. Always been a big fan of the mario games so I was thrilled when I got a Nintendo Wii for xmas. I play it a few times a week, mainly mario kart or mario brothers but also the more physical games like tennis, boxing etc. It was the best present I ever got as an adult


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## z107 (8 Apr 2010)

> I hear whats being said about HEavy Rain, and how some have compared it to a great TV show or film, but if thats the case, why not watch a great TV show or film instead?


It's a bit like saying why not read a book instead of watching a film? They are two different experiences.

Like Caveat above, I haven't bought an xbox or playstation because I'll get addicted. I spent weeks playing Doom. I did get a DS lite, and spent weeks finishing super mario.

When the 3D stuff comes out, I'll probably end up buying it. Gaming will probably merge with the social networking, if it hasn't already.

I suppose unless you've ever been engrossed in a game, it's hard to understand. I don't 'get' the whole twitter/facebook thing, for example.


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## Vanilla (8 Apr 2010)

truthseeker said:


> I would play more games if they made more games I liked.
> 
> I like a game where I get to wander around different areas, look at things, look for things, collect things for use in other areas, solve puzzles and do a small bit of fighting/killing/avoiding the baddies.


 
I never played games until about a year ago- we were going on holidays and my husband downloaded a few games like Ravenhearst or other hidden object/mystery games on the laptop as we knew there would be no tv etc. I started playing a few with him and found them a bit of fun. I wouldn't play more than one every three or four months though, usually when on holidays. He has a rapidshare account so he downloads them for free.

If you haven't played Ravenhearst, I'd recommend it.


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## burger1979 (9 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> I hear whats being said about HEavy Rain, and how some have compared it to a great TV show or film, but if thats the case, why not watch a great TV show or film instead?


 
you watch a programme, but with a computer game you are in command and to a certain extent immersed in the game. I think that computer games that are like tv programmes to some extent are alot better then just watching a programme. you are challenged to think in alot of games now, puzzles, time trials etc. etc. which requires some thinking. If you were to watch a tv series of say about 10 episodes straight then i would say you hardly think about it at all or anything that will come up in the programme to challenge mental ability, except for tyring to figure out the ending. 

my brother recently gave me a loan of his PS3. he has assasins creed 2 for it and i am playing it at the moment. its a great game, alot of cinematic bits. clever story line and great game play. It is these items that game developers have expanded over the years to get games more interesting to older generations. i will admit though that for some people who have known that simple point and shoot games when they were younger that getting to grips with the likes of shooting games now could take more time, lots more buttons to press when in action, using both thumbs to control running and viewing at the same time. its easier for a child to learn this and ini my experience with older people when it comes to learning all the controls they find it difficult and after a while give up.


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## DrMoriarty (9 Apr 2010)

I used to be skeptical about games, but I was blown away by the richly-layered complexity of _Close Range_ multiplayer.


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## Caveat (9 Apr 2010)

LOL 

- my kind of game!


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## Complainer (9 Apr 2010)

Vanilla said:


> He has a rapidshare account so he downloads them for free.


This wouldn't be a case of software theft, would it?


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## Caveat (9 Apr 2010)

I love this quote:

_Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and listening to repetitive music..._



(Marcus Brigstocke)


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## Betsy Og (9 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> This wouldn't be a case of software theft, would it?


 
Yerrah they're only losing out if you were otherwise going to pay for it (which you probably werent).


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## MANTO (9 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> I hear whats being said about HEavy Rain, and how some have compared it to a great TV show or film, but if thats the case, why not watch a great TV show or film instead?


 
Because its a game?


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## Complainer (9 Apr 2010)

Betsy Og said:


> Yerrah they're only losing out if you were otherwise going to pay for it (which you probably werent).


I'm sure many shoplifters could make the same arguement.


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## MANTO (9 Apr 2010)

Ah, you might be getting them free through rapidshare, but you are also getting a nice little surprise with them.

Q. Why do you think people strip these games down, rejig them, and post up to download for free?

A. So they can add their own little gems also, spyware, viruses, trojans etc. 

Now the problem is, you might never know you have them because these are not your usual detectable viruses. They are highly sophistacted in their design that they are blended in with the prgram files of the game.

Rather than risking the security of my PC i pay for the games online and download them directly to my laptop.

www.direct2drive.com/


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## DrMoriarty (9 Apr 2010)

You guys need to watch _Videodrome_ again. PC viruses are the least of your worries.


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

> Rather than risking the security of my PC i pay for the games online and download them directly to my laptop.


I'm not sure if the games on rapidshare are freeware or not.

Anyway, if they're not, I'd rather pay for stuff than steal it. People have worked hard to produce the product, and if I am going to enjoy the fruits of their labour, I'd like to pay them for it.

Thieves make stuff more expensive for decent people as well.


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## Caveat (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Thieves make stuff more expensive for decent people as well.


 
So they'll rob stuff for you but if you come from a respectable postcode they'll actually sell it to you at a mark up?

Bloody mercenaries.


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## Vanilla (9 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> This wouldn't be a case of software theft, would it?


 
Bloody hell, if it is he's in big trouble!


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## Towger (9 Apr 2010)

Poor Mr Vanilla...


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

The software could be freeware.




> So they'll rob stuff for you but if you come from a respectable postcode they'll actually sell it to you at a mark up?


I don't understand this at all.


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## Betsy Og (9 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> I'm sure many shoplifters could make the same arguement.


 
I suppose the subtle difference is that you havent denied them the chance to sell to willing buyers. Now if you send it to all your mates then you are doing more damage, but if you werent going to personally buy anyway then no-one has lost out.

To the best of my knowledge any of that old arcade stuff on MAME isnt sold on the market.

Also, I wouldnt pay for knock-off stuff because, as the dvd intro tells you, you're funding organised crime - & I do believe that.


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## Complainer (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> The software could be freeware.



Doesn't look like it - http://www.bigfishgames.com/download-games/1305/mystery-case-files-ravenhearst/index.html 
"*Full unlimited version* 
* 										Only $6.99!"*




Vanilla said:


> Bloody hell, if it is he's in big trouble!



Wouldn't like to be in the Vanilla house for dinner this evening.



Betsy Og said:


> I suppose the subtle difference is that you havent denied them the chance to sell to willing buyers. Now if you send it to all your mates then you are doing more damage, but if you werent going to personally buy anyway then no-one has lost out.



This is twisting the situation to suit your conscience. Convincing yourself that "you wouldn't have bought it anyway" has nothing to do with the ethical issue. If I shoplift a nice expensive ring from Weirs on the grounds that I couldn't afford it anyway, it is still theft. If you couldn't get it for free, then maybe you actually would have bought it anyway.

So is it ethical and moral to tap into my neighbour's broadband or cable TV?


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

> Now if you send it to all your mates then you are doing more damage, but if you werent going to personally buy anyway then no-one has lost out.


I need some work done around the house. When will you be available to do this? I will not, of course, be paying you.


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## Ciaraella (9 Apr 2010)

truthseeker said:


> I would play more games if they made more games I liked.
> 
> I like a game where I get to wander around different areas, look at things, look for things, collect things for use in other areas, solve puzzles and do a small bit of fighting/killing/avoiding the baddies.


 
The broken sword series for the PC is great, they're kind of role play games where you have to figure out a mystery and collect clues to help you, and because they're out years they're cheap as chips......although chips are expensive enough these days!


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## MANTO (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I'm not sure if the games on rapidshare are freeware or not.


 
Rapidshare is a file hosting company. They do not provide freeware games. Unless you are getting the rapidshare links from a reputable website that gives freeware games you are more than likely donloading an illegal copy upladed by somebody. 

There are plenty of sites where freeware games are available but i have never seen them using rapidshare to host their files. 

All you have to do is google 'rapidshare games' and all of the sites that come up are for illegal copies of games.


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## Betsy Og (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I need some work done around the house. When will you be available to do this? I will not, of course, be paying you.


 
Ah but in that situation you would be requiring my time & presence. Whereas if I ran an art exhibition and was charging admission, but you happen to be setting up next door and while you werent an art buff you decided to sneek in before I opened to have a look around then you wouldnt have cost me anything, reduced my capacity for earning and indeed I wouldnt have been aware of your opportunism.

Now if you started hailing the waiting queue for my exhibitoin, showing them the way in for free I might be a bit annoyed.


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## Betsy Og (9 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> So is it ethical and moral to tap into my neighbour's broadband or cable TV?


 
Well I suppose it wouldnt be the worst crime in the world. For example I share a bin with my neighbour, we split the cost 50/50 - are we scamming the bin company??, no we're doing the Reduce/Reuse/Recycle thing. If a guy down the road dropped in the odd bag, and assuming we were under the weight limit (so it didnt cost me anything) then I guess I could live with that. 

I'm only having the debate for the craic - is there such a thing as "victimless crime"??, probably not, but you cant sweat the small stuff. Here we are stoically accepting €22 Bn into Anglo courtesy of Seanie Fitz but we can generate more moral outrage about the odd downloaded game.


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

> Ah but in that situation you would be requiring my time & presence.


I write software. This takes my time and presence. It takes years of training and keeping up with technology as well.
Why do you think I should do this for you, for free?

Anyone that is using the product for free certainly is costing me money. If everyone decides to steal the software, then I'll have to get a job doing something else.

I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.
Do you steal books and sneak into cinemas without paying as well?


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

One other thing -
How well would your art exhibition fare if every second person sneaked in and didn't pay? - or if most people had the same mindset as you and didn't pay?

You may have spent years creating your artworks, months preparing for the exhibition and would probably have spent a fortune hiring and promoting it. After all that time, effort and money, the exhibition failed because people decided they didn't want to pay. Indeed, they took advantage of your work and money, but didn't pay you.

Would that not bother you? Would you do another exhibition?

Many software developers do not make much money. People like you will destroy software development and make life that little bit worse for everyone. It's parasitic.


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## MrMan (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I write software. This takes my time and presence. It takes years of training and keeping up with technology as well.
> Why do you think I should do this for you, for free?
> 
> Anyone that is using the product for free certainly is costing me money. If everyone decides to steal the software, then I'll have to get a job doing something else.
> ...



Do you ever pay cash for jobs? or get paid cash for jobs. Even if you are morally perfect there are many others who take certain views to suit their needs at the time. It's not fair but it is how things happen.


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## truthseeker (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.


 
Its because its so easy to make copies that are indisinguishable from the original.
People think, oh what harm, sure I can copy this uploaded version, its the same as the original version, sure who am I harming? Isnt it so easy? Surely if I wasnt supposed to be doing it itd be harder to do?
Same goes for pirate dvds. 

Not so for books, too long to go and photocopy an entire book and bind it into anything like its original format.

I am against piracy in all its forms. I hear so many people these days going on about the latest movie theyve watched - illegally - and it disgusts me. Even in work people talk about this openly as though its not a big deal. Its a crime, would they come in and talk about stealing from a shop so easily?


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

> Do you ever pay cash for jobs? or get paid cash for jobs. Even if you are morally perfect there are many others who take certain views to suit their needs at the time. It's not fair but it is how things happen.


No, I'm not perfect, ethically or otherwise.
However, I don't knowingly steal stuff. I don't ever get paid cash for jobs, and pay all the taxes that the government want. 
I do pay cash to other people for jobs if that is their payment terms. It is then up to that person to pay their taxes.

The problem with theft is, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to steal from Microsoft, but not the local butcher, or your next door neighbour?


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## MrMan (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> No, I'm not perfect, ethically or otherwise.
> However, I don't knowingly steal stuff. I don't ever get paid cash for jobs, and pay all the taxes that the government want.
> *I do pay cash to other people for jobs if that is their payment terms. It is then up to that person to pay their taxes.*
> 
> The problem with theft is, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to steal from Microsoft, but not the local butcher, or your next door neighbour?


 
Like I said, we see things as how we want to suit ourselves. When someone is paid cash it is generally a payment that involves no tax and is subsequently cheaper to the consumer.


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## z107 (9 Apr 2010)

> Like I said, we see things as how we want to suit ourselves. When someone is paid cash it is generally a payment that involves no tax and is subsequently cheaper to the consumer.


Like I said, other people's tax affairs are their business.
Some people prefer cash as cheques can bounce.


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## daithi (9 Apr 2010)

*computer games and adults*

Im a sucker for miniclip.com meself..

daithi


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## MrMan (9 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Like I said, other people's tax affairs are their business.
> Some people prefer cash as cheques can bounce.


 
Pay cash, insist on vat receipts, should the usher at the cinema say leave your money on your seat when your leaving as i'm sure your an upstanding citizen, same principle. 
I don't have a problem paying cash myself as I know it will work out cheaper for me, morally unsound but its the truth at least.


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## Betsy Og (10 Apr 2010)

Whats the feeling on Youtube then?, or games that you play online (but never download). Is Youtube much different to listening to the radio?? Did you ever tape a song from the radio as a kid?? - ya mercenary copyright infringer

All I'm saying is there are blurred lines vis a vis enjoying free entertainment on/via the web. & in case anyone gets the notion, I'm not a "pirate", I've never made a cent from any copied stuff (made a bit of pocket money about 20 years ago (that was punts!! ) but that was just hobbying - like Denis O'Brien selling Mars bars as a school kid- wonder was he registered with RGDATA???). And as I've said I dont agreeing with buying copied stuff from crims.

As I played a few games last night (old arcade) I see they were made in the 80's and even 1 from the 70's, & I wonder do people send money to Toyota ever time they offload an auld Starlet??, if they havent made their money by now its all the one.


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## RMCF (10 Apr 2010)

Nice to see this thread is now *completely *off topic.


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## Latrade (12 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.


 
I love technicalities and I'm as against the morality of this as those involved (I have several friends connected with the music industry who have been heavily affected by downloading), but it isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. It isn't comparable to stealing a car or a loaf of bread in the same way that you can’t compare slander to criminal assault.

However, on with the OP. I grew up with the evolution of gaming and I can still see the draw. I’ve avoided buying the latest generation of machines mainly due to time to play and that if I were to play I probably would get immersed in the games to the extent I’m playing them until 4 am.

It’s like a 24 DVD box set where you just can’t let it go, you have to keep watching. The difference with some of these games is you’re controlling everything. 

I know it’s sad, indicative of deeper fixations during my formative years and an explanation for the retardation of certain key social skills, yet if I don’t get to inflict genocide on a digital alien race at least once a year, I feel something is lacking in my life.


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## z107 (12 Apr 2010)

> I love technicalities and I'm as against the morality of this as those involved (I have several friends connected with the music industry who have been heavily affected by downloading), but it isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. It isn't comparable to stealing a car or a loaf of bread in the same way that you can’t compare slander to criminal assault.


This crowd would disagree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Against_Software_Theft

As a software developer the terms, 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' have the same consequences for me. I prefer to use the term 'theft'.

It's also interesting to see where the 'copyright infringers', or 'thieves' try to justify their position on this thread. The situation is clear, copyright infrigement (or theft) is illegal. What I do, or what other people do is irrelevent. It's still illegal. There are consequences and victims. People will lose jobs etc.

I've made my point, and don't have anything else to add to this off-topic discussion.


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## elefantfresh (12 Apr 2010)

So, back to gaming then. As mentioned above, miniclip.com is good craic and legal!


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## Latrade (12 Apr 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> This crowd would disagree:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Against_Software_Theft
> 
> As a software developer the terms, 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' have the same consequences for me. I prefer to use the term 'theft'.
> ...


 
People are losing jobs, so there is no "will" there and all you say is correct, but it still isn't theft. That crowd and any other interest group can say what they will, copyright infringment is a civil issue not a criminal. The only time it becomes criminal is when someone tries to sell the copies.


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## Complainer (12 Apr 2010)

Latrade said:


> People are losing jobs, so there is no "will" there and all you say is correct, but it still isn't theft. That crowd and any other interest group can say what they will, copyright infringment is a civil issue not a criminal. The only time it becomes criminal is when someone tries to sell the copies.


So downloading an illegal copy of a movie is NOT theft, but shoplifting a copy of the DVD from HMV is theft - is that what you're saying? 

There is no moral or ethical difference between these two scenarios.


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## DrMoriarty (12 Apr 2010)

Latrade said:


> I know it’s sad, indicative of deeper fixations during my formative years and an explanation for the retardation of certain key social skills, yet if I don’t get to inflict genocide on a digital alien race at least once a year, I feel something is lacking in my life.


This is not a "personals"/dating service, Latrade. Please read the Posting Guidelines.


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## michaelm (12 Apr 2010)

Breach of copyright is not a moral issue.  It's a technical/legal issue and depending where you might live on the planet or what age you are it may or may not be theft.  I would suggest that it is thanks to 'illegal' downloaders that CDs and DVDs have come down in price over the last couple of years.


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## Latrade (12 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> So downloading an illegal copy of a movie is NOT theft, but shoplifting a copy of the DVD from HMV is theft - is that what you're saying?
> 
> There is no moral or ethical difference between these two scenarios.


 
Correct, it isn't the same. Downloading a ripped copy of a movie is the same offence as a band sampling or producing a very similar record to another artist without crediting the original or paying royalties. Intellectual property is a separate field, it isn't open to theft, conversion or anything else as it isn't tangible.

And yes, morally and ethically it is still wrong and I strongly disagree with it, but I also disagree with trying to criminalise kids for a civil offence.




DrMoriarty said:


> This is not a "personals"/dating service, Latrade. Please read the Posting Guidelines.


 
You'd be surprised at just how often that line of mine works. Never.


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## Complainer (12 Apr 2010)

michaelm said:


> I would suggest that it is thanks to 'illegal' downloaders that CDs and DVDs have come down in price over the last couple of years.



Maybe if we did more shoplifting, then other prices would come down too.


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## Towger (12 Apr 2010)

No more posts from Vanilla. Look at all the trouble you guys have gotten her poor husband into.


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## Vanilla (12 Apr 2010)

Towger said:


> No more posts from Vanilla. Look at all the trouble you guys have gotten her poor husband into.


 
LOL. I've decided to keep my mouth shut about what I don't understand from now on. Let's just say, that for once ( that I am about to admit to anyway), he was in the right and I was in the wrong. It doesn't happen very often so it stung all the worse.


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## michaelm (12 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> Maybe if we did more shoplifting, then other prices would come down too.


Downloading and shoplifting are different animals.  Obviously with shoplifting there is a discernible cost/loss of revenue which other customers ultimately pay for.  I'm simply suggesting that downloading has a different effect.  Anyone, such as yourself, who can see no difference between downloading and shoplifting are unlikely to entertain this suggestion.


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## Firefly (12 Apr 2010)

Vanilla said:


> LOL. I've decided to keep my mouth shut about what I don't understand from now on. Let's just say, that for once ( that I am about to admit to anyway), he was in the right and I was in the wrong. It doesn't happen very often so it stung all the worse.


 
I presume these sentences were printed off and put in a nice, mounted frame with the title "See...it CAN happen" !!


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## Complainer (12 Apr 2010)

michaelm said:


> Downloading and shoplifting are different animals.


The main difference seems to be the guts/nerve required to carry out the operation - those brave keyboard warriors, eh?



michaelm said:


> Obviously with shoplifting there is a discernible cost/loss of revenue which other customers ultimately pay for. I'm simply suggesting that downloading has a different effect.


To suggest that downloading does not result in a loss of revenue is a moral cop-out. If the material has value, there is a loss of revenue. If it has no value, it wouldn't be downloaded.


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## mtk (15 Apr 2010)

i agree with poster above - its "thieving"


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## canicemcavoy (16 Apr 2010)

Many years ago I did copy games, and now feel quite guilty about that. Many PC developers have had to switch to developing console-only games because of piracy. Indie developers who rely solely on their games for income often see piracy rates of 90%.

So I make a point of buying all my games, including the ones I'd previously copied - and since most PC games are fairly cheap (especially the twice weekly sales on the download service Steam, where you can sometimes pick up games for as little as a quid) there's really no excuse. You can easily buy a game a week for less than the price of a pint without even having to go to the shop.


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## Caveat (16 Apr 2010)

As for RMCF's question, I think really we are all geeks in some shape or form and are enthusiastic about something that is regarded as a bit silly or alien to others. It could be gaming, coin collecting, bird watching or even just sports.

E.g. I have no interest at all in sport and I regard jersey wearing, crying at matches supporters with as much suspicion and confusion as they probably regard me, entering as I am my fourth decade, and still getting orgasmically excited at the latest experimental prog noise band from Saskatchewan or wherever.


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## elefantfresh (16 Apr 2010)

> the latest experimental prog noise band from Saskatchewan



Ohhhh! Do tell Caveat!


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## Betsy Og (16 Apr 2010)

Viva la difference, people love to pidgeonhole others and expect them to conform to their assigned "image". Squares should be square.

I regularly get a kick from revealing to my fellow suit wearers that I was out on the dirt bike or off caravanning or going to a heavy metal show - now I'm more boring and conventional than most, but its gas to see how it "throws" them to do something untypical.

Getting back on topic, I'm looking forward to when the young fellas are old enough to demand a console, and I get to skip 10 generations of technology and immerse in the latest system going at the time.


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## canicemcavoy (16 Apr 2010)

Let's face it, gaming is pretty mainstream now. "Modern Warfare 2" - an over 18s game - sold 2 million copies in the UK in its first week of release alone. That's an astonishing figure. Shame people are buying it rather than a genuinely good game, but there you go.


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## RMCF (16 Apr 2010)

Caveat said:


> As for RMCF's question, I think really we are all geeks in some shape or form and are enthusiastic about something that is regarded as a bit silly or alien to others. It could be gaming, coin collecting, bird watching or even just sports.
> 
> E.g. I have no interest at all in sport and I regard jersey wearing, crying at matches supporters with as much suspicion and confusion as they probably regard me, entering as I am my fourth decade, and still *getting orgasmically excited at the latest experimental prog noise band from Saskatchewan or wherever*.



Wierdo !!!


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