# how to find individual web designer with specific skills, where to advertise the job.



## JoeB (8 Sep 2011)

Hi

I think I'm allowed to ask for recommendations here. I've searched and haven't really found relevant threads, and none that are recent.

I have written a long spec for a website, and I'd like a recommendation for how I go about finding the right person for my specific design. I understand that I could go to a large company that can handle any technology, but that will cost more. Smaller companies and individuals will likely be good in some areas, and totally in-experienced in others. But I'd prefer to use an individual ,.. and they must be highly skilled in the areas I need. (CSS mainly)


If my budget is 500 to 2,000, for a ten page website,.. well, that should be fine I'd have thought, but maybe not for a big company.


I'm not sure if I can post my full spec, so I will post a little. The full spec is very complete, .. but where should I put it to get the people I want to reply? TenderMe and stuff is probably only watched by the larger companies,.. what sites do smaller individuals look for jobs on?



			
				extract from Joe's spec said:
			
		

> Type of web designer needed.
> Primarily I need help with the creative side of things.. with the appearance of the website, the layout and choice of fonts and colours. I can provide background images but these might need to be creatively modified so the website looks good. Layout must be done using CSS, and the web designer would need to decide on what styles etc are needed, and to implement them. Menus must have sub-menus, all attractively done, and laid out in a nice free flowing way, with no text overlapping or being obscured behind layers etc when menus are clicked.
> 
> Web pages needed include..
> ...


----------



## onq (8 Sep 2011)

HI Joe,

I see your need, but I'm not certain that this forum will be read by the kind of technical person you seem to be looking for.
Also, looking at the specification, most of this seems to be straightforward hyperlinks with a few images.
You seem pretty clued in and a logical thinker, so - would you not consider doing this yourself?

There are the routes that I looked at -

(i) Invest in a program.These will allow you to DTP (Desk Top Publish) your own website to your specification, supposedly in accordance with international standards. The ones I looked at - and indeed tried to use - promised the earth but seemed unduly complicated. Some of the reviews suggested they wrote clunky code too, and lots of it. Here is one such, a free cut down version of Fusion. I decided to abandon the frills and whistles and do a simple website. 
​(ii) "Professional" CodersAt the time I was getting  offers from people - in the Golden Pages I  think - to design a website  "with" me using remote software for €750  -€1,000 and there was some  guy from England who was chasing me for a  while. I didn't have a spare  half grand and more to throw at him so I went down my own path.
​(iii) Web Design services provided by your Website Host 
Some hosters of sites provide design services as part of the package  and these could be economical, particularly if you needed help to run  your website as a shop, or order taking operation - perhaps linked to an  online account. There is a host of security-and-money related issues  here, so taking and paying for specialist advice is probably wise.
​(iv) Download a template and use this to write your own website.In the end I downloaded a simple, free template and wrote my own website - I know, I know, "it looks it, too" - but its done the deed for two years or so now and it was free.

I included a links on the page to the relevant sites who published the advice and wrote the original work as required.

http://www.realitysoftware.ca/services/website-development/design/

http://www.flash-gallery.org/

There are other sources of free templates - this is just one example

[broken link removed]

There are also pay-for templates. You pay more for exclusivity and individual design.


The bottom line is that it does take a while to find what you're looking  for, but it can save endless hours doing detail design in Fusion

---------------------------<>-----------------------------
​  I'm not a coder, but once you take a look under the hood at any HTML file there's not a huge amount going on for simple pages.

  Cascasing Style Sheets is basically a separate text file which helps harmonise the "look" of the individual pages.

The result is as you see [broken link removed], text all done, pages interlinked, each with an e-mail hyperlink that allows you to contact the author via e-mail using your own e-mail program.

 The basic structure of the pages is similar.
 It could do with a few more images.
There is no Flash Content.

Its a fast loader.


Depending on your intent for your site, instead of online flash wizardry could I suggest you consider, writing a PDF brochure and providing a link to it on the site - this speeds up the site  and people download only what they want.

---------------------------<>-----------------------------
​I know this isn't what you were looking for, but it might work and could save you up to two grand. 


Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                     as a defence or support - in and of itself - should      legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                     Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on     the         matters    at      hand.


----------



## JoeB (8 Sep 2011)

I'm hoping to get a recomendation as to where I can post a specification, where it is likely it will be read and rersponded to by individual out-of-work web designers, with experience of doing a website using CSS and PHP. They are doing the creative end, .. I will be doing the content. They can use a template if they wish, or they can produce their own graphics.

Attempting to do the creative side of things myself would be a disaster. I will have enough on my plate trying to do the technical side of it,.. the MySQL and the PHP side. I want a brilliant website, with a beautiful design, which is entirely suited to my products. It must function correctly, and be multi-browser proof. That's the core job, which I think must be done by a pro if I want the best results.

So I need a designer who will produce a nice design, using CSS, and I will populate it with content. He or she just need produce ten or so pages which I have drawn out... it sounds easier than it is. This will be a large and complex website, but based around only ten or so page types. There will be many CSS styles required though overall, and advice needed on other topics. 

jpg, showing suggested page layouts, approx 900k
[broken link removed]

same picture as above, gif, approx 225k
[broken link removed]

complete spec, small file.
http://www.eccabinets.com/ExternallyLinked/EastCoastCabinets-websiteSpec.html


The page layouts are mainly to show the page types that would be required.. obviously menus can be moved around and stuff,.. but I would need individual page types something like I've shown.


----------



## onq (8 Sep 2011)

I'm not sure there are that many web designers out of work Joe.
The 15% of the workforce on the dole seems to be made up mainly of construction related (operatives, trades, professionals, developers) and the pre-existing long term unemployed.

Here's someone picked at Random from Google using - Irish Web Designers - as the search term - 
http://www.vickyswebdesign.com/portfolio_web_design.html

Using - "Irish Web Designers"- as the search term threw up this interesting thread on boards.ie
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054893716

They appear to have a specific forum set for web related topics.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=23

Since it seems to be well populated you might find a few web designers willing to work for the fee you suggest there.

My knowledge of other's experience with web designers is that you are not well advised to see a site as complex as this as a package.
You will most likely need follow on snagging and that suggests retaining a firm for say a year or so until all the "bugs" are sorted out.
I draw your attention to the comments made in that thread about a lack of standards-compliant web design in the industry.

On this point is known that IE used not to implement the standards correctly.
Most websites are optimised for IE and this sometimes gave problems with other web browsers.
This is not because the website wasn't compliant per se (i.e. badly written), but because of the IE optimization.

The other issue is the comment in the thread about about non-compliant bloatware code from dreamweaver.
Both the IE optimization and the Dreamweaver bloat drove me to write my own simple site.
I still think you should have a go yourself, Joe 


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                      as a defence or support - in and of itself - should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                      Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports  on     the         matters    at      hand.


----------



## bluemac (8 Sep 2011)

www.creativeireland.com would be the best place,


----------



## Jim2007 (8 Sep 2011)

JoeBallantin said:


> I'm hoping to get a recomendation as to where I can post a specification, where it is likely it will be read and rersponded to by individual out-of-work web designers, with experience of doing a website using CSS and PHP. They are doing the creative end, .. I will be doing the content. They can use a template if they wish, or they can produce their own graphics.



Just for your information, we employ several Irish web-designers on a freelance basis from time to time and believe me these guy are not out of work!  We usually expect to pay them about €700 per 8 hour day.  

For a really good quality site like your are describing I'd be expecting to pay more in the lines of 20K than 2K.  I'd suggest you try and get some online company that will do some altering to an existing template.

Jim.


----------



## donee (8 Sep 2011)

have a look here www.ebusinessmatters.com


----------



## shaking (8 Sep 2011)

You could try contacting these guys  i know they're very familiar with CSS, if they can't help you they probably know someone who can.

_Declaration: they are friends of mine_


----------



## PaddyBloggit (8 Sep 2011)

They'd want to fix their own site first shaking!

Errors showing up on the following pages:

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

* Error occurred: 404 - not found*

 Apache Server at: d1030785-12.cp.blacknight.com


----------



## nai (8 Sep 2011)

Joe. I work in the IT space (not web design - I'm a long way further under the hood!) but I know a number of web designers. I'll echo other sentiments. They have tons of work. But reality is you get what you pay for and if you're willing to pay a bit you will get some quality work done.  

There are a number of site where you can post your spec and get bids from all over the work or you can meet someone in person in Ireland and go through your ideas face to face. 


If you want I can post a recommendation to a friend of mine who has a large portfolio you can check out and get in touch with if you like what you see.


----------



## nai (8 Sep 2011)

Apologies Joe. I just reread your original post - you were looking for recommendations. 

Try Adrian at www.invictus.ie

Disclosure - he is a personal friend but we have worked together on a number of projects.


----------



## shaking (9 Sep 2011)

Valid point paddy! I believe the links are now fixed.


----------



## JoeB (9 Sep 2011)

Thanks for all the imupt people, much appreciated.

I think my spec is too pre-mature, and I've released it too early.

I'm actually writing the content now, .. I think that's best as there's no point making a website which doesn't have the appropriate pages to display my content. So I intend to do a simple drawing showing every page I need, and the content for each of those pages. This forces me to consider each page in detail,.. and already I've made changes due to this.


So I'm making up a top Menu bar, and deciding on each of the links, and then drawing each linked page. Same thing for the bottom link menu, and the same thing for my main side menu displaying my products. I have to decide exactly what categories, sub-categories and individual products I need to display, and how many different page types are needed to display my varying products.


I'm also coming up with my database definition, and deciding exactly what needs to be stored, and where it will be displayed.



When I'm finished the design spec I'll have a storyboard type thing, showing the home page, and each page of the site. I'lll also have a database definition done up... so I'll come back when I'm more prepared.

Cheers


----------



## nai (9 Sep 2011)

Joe,

You might be jumping ahead too far - you're doing the designers job as well now. 

Why not make initial contact wit ha web dev to see what they want with regard to spec ? You might get more out of a brain storming /mock up session that way.


----------



## elefantfresh (9 Sep 2011)

Joe, feel free to PM me if you want - cousin of mine may be able to help you out.


----------



## JoeB (9 Sep 2011)

I think there's two aspects to design,.. the first is layout (including colours and fonts), and the second is content (which is to be laid out), content is pure text and pictures.


I'm working on the content now. I can't see how a web designer is going to write my content, but when he see the content I have to display he should be able to explain the pros and cons of different layouts of that content.


So for example I'm writing the actual 'About Us' content, and deciding if pictures need to be displayed with that. Same thing for 'contact us', 'delivery and shipping', terms and conditions' etc etc.
I've written a detailed FAQ section, which needs more work,.. the Q's need to be categorised.

I've decided that a gallery iof previous work is required.. there is no other natural place on the webiste that I can display photos of entire fitted kitchens. So there will be a gallery section, with top headings,.. Kitchen 1, Kitchen 2, etc.. each kitchen (or gallery section), would have an associated picture, and text description... then within each gallery section there would be indiviudal pictures from that particular fitted kitchen (closeups of individual cabinets etc), and again assoicated pictures and text for each gallery item.
So this does require thought from me... how should the database be laid out and what info is required to be stored? Where should this info be displayed on the website? (not in terms of fonts or colours, but more in terms of on what page of the website, and how is that page linked to the other pages).


Badsically I'm only producing the spec.. if I went to a designer now they would say that I haven't decided what I want. I'd imagine that's very usual for them.. with people saying 'i want a website', but having no further info about what's to be actually on the website.


I imagine it'd cost too much to use a designer at this stage.


----------



## Woodie (9 Sep 2011)

I can imagine that what you need is quite a simple process.  It does not seem too complicated.   If you are stuch on a particular vision about how it must look then you probably need to have a designer, there are lots.   If it's pretty straightforward you could simply get an account with some ISP that offeres preset templates such as 1&1 UK or Network Solutions etc.   If you want an online stor option check out Actinic software a pretty no brainer software package that lets you keep control.


----------



## AlbacoreA (12 Sep 2011)

Adverts.ie has a section for these kind of ads. See lots of people getting designers via that route.


----------



## Firefly (12 Sep 2011)

Hi Joe,

Down at the end of most websites is a "designed by:" footnote. Perhaps call one of these web designers for a website that you like?


----------



## helvetica (20 Sep 2011)

Hi Joe. It sounds like you are very organised and you know what you want. It also sounds like you do need a good designer, unless you are willing to spend a fair bit of time going the DIY route. 

First off, I am a designer, but I'll not try to sell you my wares - I'll keep my advice impartial. A quick look around your current site tells me you want a cms (content managed site) as you have a lot of content. You might go with a wordpress site, be it a custom design or a nice template. There are plenty of good ones out there - check out "woo themes" for some examples. 

Where a graphic designer will help you is to advise how to structure your site. I know you have thought of menus and general layouts, but this might lead to a very standard and dated site, and I think you would benefit from someone who understands what technology is available, and to pick the best from it. I think your content would suit a 'blog' style site.  So instead of having an archive of Your 'previous projects', all projects would be listed chronologically, with say the latest 6 on the front page, and anything older automatically archived - but linked to current projects with keywords etc. So nothing on your site is relegated to the archives, but a few are highlighted for whatever reason you choose. 

Take a look at lostartpress dot com for a clean example. (I'm a woodworking fan myself!)

Good text is nice, but photography (and the work itself, needless to say) is everything in your game. 

A talented, well run, small web business should be able to self-promote themselves well enough for you to find them within a page or two of a google search. I would advise you to start local, if you find someone you like nearby it will make those coffee meetings a little easier. 

Best of luck, P


----------



## JoeB (20 Sep 2011)

Thanks for all the advice.

To be honest, the creation of the type of website I'm thinking about requires about ten steps or processes, and I can only afford to pay for help in some areas.

I'm just going to do more work on this myself, .. and bring in the professionals at a later stage. I've written a list below, .. it lists most of what has to be done. I'd really only need someone to help primarily with the CSS side of things,... checking over what I've done in steps 2 and 3, .. then by doing 4,5 and 6 although I may have done a lot of it... and certainly doing 8,9 and 10... 8,9 and 10 are the steps I really want experienced help on.

But it's still too early for me to be looking for help. I don't think I can get help with the text and drawings content, so that will take me quite a long time to do.



List of tasks to be completed.
1- Getting and writing all the content (getting all the photos of previous work, writing descriptions, writing product lists, assembling required info on each product, .. basically writing and getting photos and drawings as appropriate for every page of the entire 100 or so page website.)

2- Design in terms of overall layout of all pages, (what menus should contain, and how every page is linked to the rest)
3-design in terms of individual pages (in terms of colours, fonts etc, .. multiple individual page types need to be laid out, in a rough storybook type form in such a way that all required CSS text styles can be easily determined. A complete list of CSS text styles could be written at this point.)

4-design in terms of choosing colours, fonts, text sizes, etc for all of the CSS styles needed.
5-design in terms of choosing menu layouts, font sizes, colours, text size etc, also method of menu operation (sub menus etc, do they slide out etc?), and also the choice of alternative styles (in terms of fonts, colours etc) for visited links, and for mousing over
6-design in terms of choosing page layout structure,.. what divs etc are needed.


7-design in terms of back end database tables needed, and the naming system of table and fields. (One set of tables to contain pictures of previous work, and one set of tables to contain products. Possibly more data needed as well, for example FAQ questions and answers)

8-implementation of the CSS text styles needed. Loads of styles have been identified as being necessary, now they have to be implemented.
9-implementation of the CSS page layout needed. All those divs etc need to be implemented,.. and menus with rounded corners need to be made and implemented.
10-implementation of HTML pages. This will be done at first as simple html... and a representative sample of each and every page type will be created, using the CSS style file and sample info hardcoded into a html file (hardcoded rather than using a database)

11-Implementation of the database, in terms of the overall schema.
12-Writing all of the SQL queries required.

13-Converting all the html pages written previously to PHP pages,.. which use database SQL queries rather than hardcoded sample data.
14-Test, test, test.
15-Uploading all files to your hoster.


----------



## onq (20 Sep 2011)

I think you've approached the job very professionally but don't make it harder than it needs to be.

There are several ways to approach web design and you can learn a lot just by right-clicking on a page you like and selecting "view page source".


----------

