# Reasonable Child Maintenance



## Dairylea (24 Apr 2022)

I’d appreciate a bit of input please. I’m due in court re child maintenance but I’m wondering what peoples opinion are on the rate that I should be asking for? Is this based on the fathers disposable income or is it based on how much it costs me at the moment to raise the child? Is it reasonable to ask the judge to set a fair amount or would that be frowned upon? As it stands the child’s father earns a large salary. More than I realised. Approx €8000 pm after tax. Expenses are €2000 pm and is currently paying €70 child maintenance per week.


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## Baby boomer (24 Apr 2022)

Without seeing the full picture of both your finances, it's hard to be definitive, but from what you say, €70 seems very low from an after tax income of 8k p/month.  The District Court can award up to €150 per week per child.  (And 500pw in spousal maintenance.) To go above this to what might arguably be a more realistic figure, you would need to be in the Circuit Court rather than the District Court.  

I presume you have a solicitor acting for you.  S/he should be advising you in great detail on this.


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## Dairylea (24 Apr 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> Without seeing the full picture of both your finances, it's hard to be definitive, but from what you say, €70 seems very low from an after tax income of 8k p/month.  The District Court can award up to €150 per week per child.  (And 500pw in spousal maintenance.) To go above this to what might arguably be a more realistic figure, you would need to be in the Circuit Court rather than the District Court.
> 
> I presume you have a solicitor acting for you.  S/he should be advising you in great detail on this.


Thanks Baby boomer

I didn’t have solicitor for this at first. The case has been delayed a few times due to Covid and again due him not having a statement of means with him. I do have a solicitor meeting later this week now though through legal aid. I’m currently full time mum


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## Pinoy adventure (24 Apr 2022)

With inflation the way it is €70 does seem low.


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## Purple (28 Apr 2022)

Dairylea said:


> I’d appreciate a bit of input please. I’m due in court re child maintenance but I’m wondering what peoples opinion are on the rate that I should be asking for? Is this based on the fathers disposable income or is it based on how much it costs me at the moment to raise the child? Is it reasonable to ask the judge to set a fair amount or would that be frowned upon? As it stands the child’s father earns a large salary. More than I realised. Approx €8000 pm after tax. Expenses are €2000 pm and is currently paying €70 child maintenance per week.


Is the father paying anything else towards the child? Is he contributing towards the mortgage or rent? Is he paying Health Insurance, school costs, pocket money etc? Does the child spend any time with their father?

If the answer is no to all of the above then €70 seems very low. If the answer is yes to any of the above then the answer to your question is "It depends".


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## Baby boomer (28 Apr 2022)

Purple said:


> Is the father paying anything else towards the child? Is he contributing towards the mortgage or rent? Is he paying Health Insurance, school costs, pocket money etc? *Does the child spend any time with their father?*
> 
> If the answer is no to all of the above then €70 seems very low. If the answer is yes to any of the above then the answer to your question is "It depends".


Even if the answer to the highlighted question is "YES" it should make very little, if any, difference to the maintenance payable.  Child costs reduce by very little because of an afternoon or even overnight access arrangement. 

There is a practice in the UK whereby there's a virtually automatic deduction of 1/7th of the awarded maintenance for every night the child stays with the non-custodial parent.  That's not the case here in Ireland.

But the other questions are very relevant to get a full picture.


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## Purple (29 Apr 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> Even if the answer to the highlighted question is "YES" it should make very little, if any, difference to the maintenance payable.  Child costs reduce by very little because of an afternoon or even overnight access arrangement.
> 
> There is a practice in the UK whereby there's a virtually automatic deduction of 1/7th of the awarded maintenance for every night the child stays with the non-custodial parent.  That's not the case here in Ireland.
> 
> But the other questions are very relevant to get a full picture.


If the child spends half their time with their father and he brings them on holidays and has to buy clothes and shoes for the child and provides meals and a home for the child when they are with him then yes, it is very relevant.


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## Baby boomer (29 Apr 2022)

Purple said:


> If the child spends half their time with their father and he brings them on holidays and has to buy clothes and shoes for the child and provides meals and a home for the child when they are with him then yes, it is very relevant.


Agreed, yes, if the child spends half their time with one parent, that would be relevant.  But not so with access visits where the child spends a day or two with one parent while the other pays for the clothes, shoes, school and medical expenses etc etc.


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## Purple (29 Apr 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> Agreed, yes, if the child spends half their time with one parent, that would be relevant.  But not so with access visits where the child spends a day or two with one parent while the other pays for the clothes, shoes, school and medical expenses etc etc.


True, but that's not the norm.


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## Dairylea (29 Apr 2022)

This is where it gets into a bit of grey area. We were cohabitants and he moved out for a year after relationship ended but has now moved back into the spare room while we await court date for cohabitant redress. House belongs to him. Mortgage cleared during our relationship so there is no outstanding monthly payment but I’m aware that he does feel justified paying this amount of child maintenance because I’m living “rent free”.  I buy the clothes, haircuts, food and daily costs. I pay the household bills. I do majority of the childcare even on his days off at the weekend. So far this year he has worked overseas for 9 weeks. He does not provide health insurance for child. He doesn’t bring child on holiday or weekend trips. 
He does contribute half of any medical expenses and school book costs.


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## Clamball (30 Apr 2022)

So he is providing accommodation, half school books and half medical, and €70 per week.  You are providing overheads, food, half books and half medical, spending the €70 and you get free accommodation.   Sounds fairly balanced.


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## Dairylea (30 Apr 2022)

Clamball said:


> So he is providing accommodation, half school books and half medical, and €70 per week.  You are providing overheads, food, half books and half medical, spending the €70 and you get free accommodation.   Sounds fairly balanced.


Free accommodation is the home we’ve both contributed to over the years but only his name on deeds. He’s looking for us to move out and him remain. He has specified that it will remain at €70 when we aren’t under the same roof. So it is a bit of a contraction as he is expecting us to move out. It’s “free”accommodation in his eyes but not in my eyes. He has other properties to live in. Myself and child don’t. We are homeless if we move out.


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## Clamball (30 Apr 2022)

so what did your solicitor advise?  If your circumstances change, and you move out then applying for different maintenance orders would be a good next step.  If you can prove that he has €8000 pm income and owns several properties then I would think you have a fair chance of getting a complete package of support.  But I am sure your ex partner will have good legal advice.   

Stick to the facts.  Say where you want to live and why (even if it is your current house).  Give details of your expenditure, give details on how often the child is with you and with the father.  Best of luck in court.


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## Dairylea (30 Apr 2022)

I didn’t get to see the solicitor re child maintenance yet. I misunderstood so last weeks appointment was actually with an admin just taking basic details and the payment. 
The €8000pm has been given on his statement of means in his response to the cohabitation act which I received recently so I’ve no reason to doubt them and he has also included properties etc on this. 
Yes he can afford good legal advice and I think he is trying for joint custody.


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## Sue Ellen (30 Apr 2022)

These previous threads would appear to be relevant to this subject:

Can ex-partner sell his house

Child maintenance issue


@Dairylea  Hope things go well for you as by all accounts its been a long and tough road for you so far.


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## Dairylea (30 Apr 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> These previous threads would appear to be relevant to this subject:
> 
> Can ex-partner sell his house
> 
> ...


Thank you

It’s been awful but optimistic that the end is in sight whatever the outcome.


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## bipped (30 Apr 2022)

Dairylea said:


> I didn’t get to see the solicitor re child maintenance yet. I misunderstood so last weeks appointment was actually with an admin just taking basic details and the payment.
> The €8000pm has been given on his statement of means in his response to the cohabitation act which I received recently so I’ve no reason to doubt them and he has also included properties etc on this.
> Yes he can afford good legal advice and I think he is trying for joint custody.


Would there be a problem with joint custody - is it not better for the child to have both parents in their life.


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## Dairylea (1 May 2022)

My main concern is that there are control issues on his side. Like refusing to say when child would be returned or taking him out but refusing to say where or for how long. I’m told I do not need to know. Child’s welfare is my priority. Child would not want to live away from me. Father has spent a large chunk of child’s life working away from home which is also probably a factor in that too. But even when he wasn’t working away he had very little interest or time for the child. Has never bathed child, played sports, rarely takes child out. Only engaging with child now but showing aggression towards me in front of child when child wants to be with me.  It’s a difficult one. Yes both parents should be involved but I don’t think 50/50 will be good for child and I’m concerned how difficult he would make my life.


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## Gordon Gekko (1 May 2022)

I’m sorry to hear that, but equally this is AskAboutMoney, not AskAboutRelationships. What you’re saying may or may not be true, but you’re doing an anonymous one-sided hatchet job on your ex.


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## Baby boomer (1 May 2022)

Gordon Gekko said:


> I’m sorry to hear that, but equally this is AskAboutMoney, not AskAboutRelationships. What you’re saying may or may not be true, but you’re doing an anonymous one-sided hatchet job on your ex.


C'mon now @Gordon Gekko , we all know money and relationships are intricately and intimately bound together!  Problems in either area tend to spill over into the other.  The OP originally posted a "money" question but it obviously has a relationship dimension as well.  And it'll be hard to solve the money problem without at least addressing the relationship issue as well. Typically, these things don't tend to get "fixed" as such, but it's more likely that a sort of semi-amicable truce can be worked out that meets all needs. 

A lot of people who post here are going to have problems / financial disputes with, for example, neighbours, landlords, tenants, employers, employees, service providers, customers and so on.  We would expect people to present the situation as it appears to their point of view.  That's naturally one-sided and usually anonymous and I don't really see a problem with it.


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## Purple (3 May 2022)

Baby boomer said:


> C'mon now @Gordon Gekko , we all know money and relationships are intricately and intimately bound together!  Problems in either area tend to spill over into the other.  The OP originally posted a "money" question but it obviously has a relationship dimension as well.  And it'll be hard to solve the money problem without at least addressing the relationship issue as well. Typically, these things don't tend to get "fixed" as such, but it's more likely that a sort of semi-amicable truce can be worked out that meets all needs.
> 
> A lot of people who post here are going to have problems / financial disputes with, for example, neighbours, landlords, tenants, employers, employees, service providers, customers and so on.  We would expect people to present the situation as it appears to their point of view.  That's naturally one-sided and usually anonymous and I don't really see a problem with it.


It could also be presented that the father has sacrificed his time with his child in order to work hard and build up that property portfolio and €8000 a month income. Now the child's mother wants to reap the benefits of that hard work while excluding the father. I'm not saying that is what's happening but we all see the world through the prism of our own experiences, flaws, biases and insecurities.
Without knowing the people involved it is very hard to offer an opinion (and this is certainly not an appropriate forum to do so) but, as is the case in most personal relationships, the person who cares least has all the power.


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## Seaniemed (3 May 2022)

Purple said:


> It could also be presented that the father has sacrificed his time with his child in order to work hard and build up that property portfolio and €8000 a month income. Now the child's mother wants to reap the benefits of that hard work while excluding the father. I'm not saying that is what's happening but we all see the world through the prism of our own experiences, flaws, biases and insecurities.
> Without knowing the people involved it is very hard to offer an opinion (and this is certainly not an appropriate forum to do so) but, as is the case in most personal relationships, the person who cases least has all the power.


I would view it in another lens. This man has offered €70 a week towards the lifestyle of his child. €280 a month! Like, I have a child and if my partner and I split up I would put as much money as I could to ensure he had the lifestyle I wanted him to have. 

This man has said "€280 a month is the value of the lifestyle I want my son to have". Financially prudent and morally bankrupt IMHO.


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## Sue Ellen (3 May 2022)

@Seaniemed



Seaniemed said:


> Financially prudent and morally bankrupt IMHO.



To make matters worse in this previous thread post 12 will show him in an even worse light 

'Yes just to clarify, he wants me to find a landlord who accepts rent allowance and for me and children to move out so that he can move back into the 4 bed house (family home).

I was not always homemaker. When we first met our net income was much the same and I contributed to the mortgage and bills. Last 4 years I have been homemaker due to children and practicalities. We would have been paying out too much for childcare and he traveled a lot for work so made sense that I became homemaker.'


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## Purple (4 May 2022)

Seaniemed said:


> I would view it in another lens. This man has offered €70 a week towards the lifestyle of his child. €280 a month! Like, I have a child and if my partner and I split up I would put as much money as I could to ensure he had the lifestyle I wanted him to have.
> 
> This man has said "€280 a month is the value of the lifestyle I want my son to have". Financially prudent and morally bankrupt IMHO.


Yep, that's also a valid way to look at it, probably a more valid way. I was pointing out that we only have one parties perspective here.


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## Purple (4 May 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> @Seaniemed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, that's shocking. 

I know a couple in a similar situation. He works abroad, she claims rent allowance and doesn't work (except for cash jobs). He gives her €3000 a month in cash, transferred through her elderly father's account. I'd love to see them both get done for fraud and tax evasion.


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## Purple (4 May 2022)

Purple said:


> Yes, that's shocking.
> 
> I know a couple in a similar situation. He works abroad, she claims rent allowance and doesn't work (except for cash jobs). He gives her €3000 a month in cash, transferred through her elderly father's account. I'd love to see them both get done for fraud and tax evasion.


@Sue Ellen to make things worse she lived in a large family home that the mortgage hasn't been paid on for 9 years.


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## Feemar5 (4 May 2022)

When and if you move out is your partner providining a property for you and his child to live in or does he expect you to rent somewhere and  he will still pay the 70 euros.   I don't think showing aggression in front of child is good - you should both sit down and agree when the father will see his child and times should be strictly adhered to.   You should talk to your child and explain how important it is that he/she spends time with Dad.


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