# Step by Step guide and price for a self build!



## Veronica2008 (22 Sep 2008)

Hi Everyone

I have just bought a site in the Kilkenny area and intend to build it using direct labour to keep it as cheap as possible. Does anyone know the step by step guide as to what I should od first etc?  I'm hoping to build a 3000sq ft house and would appreciate any details of good cheap! tradesmen and also what kind of prices does everything cost. I was thinking of using timber frame -what do you think???
Thanks alot in advance!!


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## slane85 (22 Sep 2008)

Try asking here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=876


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## gally74 (22 Sep 2008)

why build a 3000 sq foot house for as cheap as possible,

why not build 2400 and up the spec, insulation etc.


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## Shorty69664 (23 Sep 2008)

Some good information here....
[broken link removed]


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## Veronica2008 (23 Sep 2008)

We decided to build bigger as we intend to sell in a few years time and try to make as much profit as possible.  We have a budget of €115k for building maybe a bit more and with the current market i know its possible to build a decent house for that. I have got prices for timberframes and I can get one for about €40K from IJM so I need guidance as to how much everything else costs after that.  We need to do electrics, plastering and joinery etc and also the blocks outside etc.  Any contacts in the trade would be appreciated. I'll have a look at the other website given, thanks


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## CorkJack (23 Sep 2008)

Currently doing a self build and there is no way I can see it being done for 115K. House size is 2500sqft. My current buget is 200K, but I expect it to go to the 220K to 240K range.


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## Neadyk (23 Sep 2008)

Does this help [broken link removed]


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## AndyH (23 Sep 2008)

Be careful about setting out with a strategy of using "good cheap! tradesmen ". Good and cheap are often mutually exclusive in this game !!
If your goal is to maximise your profit on resale, then you should give careful consideration to the quality of your finishing at an early stage.
A poor or cheap initial finish may end up costing considerably more to correct or upgrade retrospectively.

Also bear in mind, a prospective buyer of a 3000sqft house is more then likely not looking for a cheap finish.

PS: Even in the current climate, achieving a builder finish for 3000sqft within a 115k budget is wildly optimistic. That is about €38/sq ft.


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## sman (24 Sep 2008)

115k sounds impossible. based on basic quotes for our build. you would be looking at 

20k - site works
30k - sub structure
70k - timber frame (i'm guessing 45k doesnt include VAT or erection - i might be wrong)
30k - walls/wall finishes
25k - external windows/doors
15k - roof finish
15k - plumbing/heating
10k - electrics

extras:
8k - development fee
15k - garage
5k - landscaping (a fence around the sites could cost 2k!)
7k - drive

= 250k

It all adds up pretty quickly. Of course, I've probably left some stuff out and some may not apply to you or my figures may not be accurate.

this does not include well/esb/floor finishes/ kitchen/internal doors and furniture/ painting

there is an excellent blog - self build in ardmore - which i got a link and invote to on here, but lost the link. it details a current build from start to finsih and is essential reading before you start out. if someone has the link could they post it here again


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## Tank (24 Sep 2008)

Veronica,   I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but after doing my own, self build'ish' project, I can safely say that there is absolutly no way you will build for under 160K, and even at that, I would suggest that 200K would be a realisitc bottom end figure with cheap labour.    I say self build'ish'   because I went with the cheapest quote for a builder for a house at 7and ended up spending 250K and still live with the problems and I work in the industry and know what I am doing! A few pointers below:
1 - Cheapest is not best, even with good contracts signed.   
2 - 1 in 10 of the cheapest tradesmen are good. This is the reason they are cheap.  
3 - It takes one poor tradesman, eg plumber, to destroy your whole house. It can take years to resolve issues like this and a lot of work.
4- If you are going to sell this on, pulling back the spec or the quality may render the house un-sellable. EG if the insulation is underspecced, it wont get certified.
5 - People quiet often think when they get the timber frame quote that the house is going to be very cheap.   I go quotes as low as 18K for 1700 Sq M, but read the fine print, as it may cost you 80 by the time all other elements are factored in such as craneage, roof up-spec for insualtion etc.
6 - Are you invovled in the trade?   If you dont have experience, I would highly advise against a self build.   Unless you really know what you are looking for, you will lose out in the end.   Many TV programmes make this game look easy.  It is not, and missing out on one element, could be more costly then paying for a full cotract under one builder.
7 - Do you have a job?  Again, if you do, one will suffer. Either the job or the project.   Self Builds are full time jobs.
8 - If you do go ahead, get a good Architect or Architectural Technologist.   DO NOT look for teh cheapest on this, as in this case, you willget what you pay for.   Point proven here time and time again.
9 - Remember that you will need additional insurances and there are numerous hidden costs that a self build holds such as VAT, if you are not VAT registered.
10 - If you are borrowing, check with the bank, as they may have issues with this in teh current climate.

Finally, I agree with gally74.   Look at building something smaller.   Build it well, and with at least a mid range builder.   Save yourself the headache, and put your effort into fitting it out and the smaller easier works that you could do direct labour on. (Tiling, Flooring....)  You can pour foundations for extending it, and sell it with that potential.   Or build the 3000 house well, and do not fit out half of it, therefore saving money and allowing you to put it into areas that it matters.

Finally, in the current climate why not look for a good builder in your area and approach them with a realistic budget.   In the current market many builders are looking for projects to carry them over and keep their staff employed until the next big one comes along.   You may be surprised at how low they may go.


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## LDFerguson (24 Sep 2008)

Out of curiosity, what would be a really rough guide to the cost of building a 3,000 sq foot house to a high spec without opting for cheapest labour?  Not saying "money no object - let's throw it away!" but taking on board the advice above that cheapest isn't best.  Including the cost of demolishing an existing dwelling on the site.


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## Tank (24 Sep 2008)

Liam, Thats a difficult question to answer, as there are a number of elements to consider. Where is the house being built. What is your definition of high spec and are you taking into consideration Green Issues? I hope the below assists though, as these are current prices some of my clients are paying:

Half Self Build - Meath 3000 sq ft - €450,000 med spec.

Half Self Build - Dublin 1650 sq ft - €180,000 Quoted cheapest price. €320,000 with better builder and higher spec.

Contract Build - Dublin 1300 sq ft - €500,000 High Spec all in.

Prices are currently lower then above and much easier to negotiate, but believe me when I say that if you ask a builder to reduce their price, they tend to take elements out of teh project without telling you and not cut their profits. Be careful.


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## 13coldwater (24 Sep 2008)

Hi, last house I built was a 1800sq ft - cost €30k timber frame, €74k building costs inc groundwork. Other major costs involved are joinery, electrics and plumbing. Always make sure you have enough contingency within your budget


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## Tank (24 Sep 2008)

13Coldwater. That is an excellent price and I certainly wouldnt question you on it.   I only know builders who built for themselves achieving that price. Could I ask a few question that could help the original poster?

- Where did you build?
- When did you build?
- Was your house fully compliant?
- Was this a cash price? (You may not want to answer this!)
- Did you have any issues or problems?
- Did you do the works yourself, or draft in colleagues, or were the people you used new to you?
- Are you in the trade.
- Will you build my next house? 

Thanks


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## LDFerguson (24 Sep 2008)

Tank said:


> Liam, Thats a difficult question to answer, as there are a number of elements to consider. Where is the house being built. What is your definition of high spec and are you taking into consideration Green Issues? I hope the below assists though, as these are current prices some of my clients are paying:
> 
> Half Self Build - Meath 3000 sq ft - €450,000 med spec.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks Tank, 

Location would be Meath and it would be more likely to be a contract build rather than a self or half-self build.  My full self wouldn't have a clue about building a house, never mind half of my self.    So I'm figuring  €500,000+ 

It's only at pondering stage at the moment.


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## delboy159 (24 Sep 2008)

Whats High Spec Liam??


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## runner (24 Sep 2008)

A high spec (we are not talking gold taps here!) in south dublin, cira 2500 sq feet, detached, quode for contract build, architect designed, excluding all fees look to amount to around 500k or 2k per sq ft as a general guideline. Includes kitchen , tiling etc but not furniture etc.


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## LDFerguson (24 Sep 2008)

delboy159 said:


> Whats High Spec Liam??


 
Keeping Mrs. F. in the style to which she has become accustomed.  

Seriously, I used the term just to indicate that I had taken on board the suggestions in earlier posts that scrimping on all aspects can be a false economy and was looking for an indication of what the going rate is if you don't go for the cheapest of everything.  

That said, an infinity pool with glod-leaf painting of myself on the floor of it would be an essential...


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## Jolly Man (28 Jan 2009)

Guys just read this thread the blog mentioned above is mine here it is for anyone who wants a look http://selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com/


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## sman (29 Jan 2009)

Jolly Man said:


> Guys just read this thread the blog mentioned above is mine here it is for anyone who wants a look http://selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com/



Thanks JollyMAn. You in yet? Blog is Excellent stuff. I havent started yet but your blog opened my eys to a lot of things. Also useful is 'Build your own house and home magazine' An annual which goes through building from start to finish. 2009 one out now. Couldnt find it in any of my local newsagents but got it posted down direct from Dyflin publishing.  [broken link removed]


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