# Help - Accountancy Costs



## sinsin (22 Jul 2010)

Hi,

I'm in business for 30 month approx, and require my annual compliance to be done - Accounts, CRO & Revenue.

I feel like an idiot as I do not know what normally one would charge for something of this nature.

Some details of the business - service industry
T/O - 100k
2 EEs - directors
Very straight forward really, keep details on excel - do my own VAT/PAYE

Can anyone help as to what I can expect to pay....based in Dublin....please help....

Surely with all costs going down so have these?


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## DB74 (22 Jul 2010)

How much did it cost to have the first set of accounts done?


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## papervalue (22 Jul 2010)

sinsin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm in business for 30 month approx, and require my annual compliance to be done - Accounts, CRO & Revenue.
> 
> ...


 
What date were you incorporated.

What is your annual return date

Have you filed in companies office in the past

If already late for Companies office- You will have to get an audit and pay late fees

Clarify the above to get more accurate figure


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## sinsin (22 Jul 2010)

*hi*

what I am looking at is as per conversation with accountant

accounts to year end - 31/12/2009
cro compliance
revenue compliance - company & directors

our ard date is not till september

it seems very simple to me to compile this information. It is not an audit.

what I am asking, i guess, what others might have paid...or in the region of what they paid


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## papervalue (23 Jul 2010)

sinsin said:


> what I am looking at is as per conversation with accountant
> 
> accounts to year end - 31/12/2009
> cro compliance
> ...



If you say what quote or what your paying at present, others might comment on whether its value for money
(sometimes hard to give a fair view as someone might think the records they are given in to accountant are very good, some times they could turn out to be average records leading to more time to do job). I have seem a financial controller of a company on a large salary drafting accounts which he taugh were good draft but in reality they were very poor in relation to salary he was paid to do job, sometimes accountant does more work on a person job than client realise thet have

*IN Summary you want*

Cro Accounts audit exempt with a b1

Ct1 with Revenue

2 director tax returns- Assume p60 based and no rental income(some might charge this separately while others may include free with accounts)

I say you could get a wide variation in price. Some accountants could put it together in good time, and still make a decent margin. Sometime down to quality of your accountant and the records you give him/her

Whatever bill was last year, cant see it going up, be maintained or drop 

If you think the price is very high- get accountant to justify price and ask for a discount if necessary.
Look at service you are getting, are you able to ring up/meet/get return phone call within a short time space etc


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## DB74 (23 Jul 2010)

€1,500 + VAT if it's a non-audit


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## mystrikeoff (23 Jul 2010)

papervalue said:


> I have seem a financial controller of a company on a large salary drafting accounts which he taugh were good draft but in reality they were very poor in relation to salary he was paid to do job, sometimes accountant does more work on a person job than client realise thet have



+1. Brings the old adage to mind - "The only thing worse than no bookkeeper is a bad bookkeeper".

There are other variables in this too. Two clients with the same compliance requirements might incur two very different fee levels as one might be ringing the accountant every week with queries about every little thing.


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## Graham_07 (23 Jul 2010)

DB74 said:


> €1,500 + VAT if it's a non-audit



+1 Probably not far off the mark with this.  However as has been said, fees are at best holding and in some cases falling but up to 20%. Depends on the records and the accountant. You need to ask around.


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## simplyjoe (29 Jul 2010)

+2 Agree fee at €1,500 would be good value. Some accountants would charge a lot more. Anyone charging less would probably leave me worried as to their quality. Important that your accountant is also comfortable with the price. Important that your accountant has a good business themselves. You do not want your accountant being over reliant on your fees. An accountant that tells you what he thinks you want to hear is very, very dangerous. In some ways he must not be afraid to lose you. He must give strong no nonsense advice and tell you you are a plonker (if you are a plonker) if this is whats needed. I sometimes lose clients from being honest with them. Often they come back when they realise I was correct and only doing it for their own good.


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## Paddy199 (30 Jul 2010)

€1,500 is about right.


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## Importer (30 Jul 2010)

I guess Im going to be flamed here............
I cant see how this work for such a small company would take more than a week to complete. 
I do my own compliance for a substantially bigger company and it never takes more than a few days.
I'd say you'll get plenty of takers at 800.


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## Paddy199 (30 Jul 2010)

I suspect this company is a close company. Have you heard of a close company or the close company surcharge? If not, you shouldn't be doing the tax returns for these type of companies.

It is this expertise that you pay for so that Revenue don't land you with a large tax bill in a few years time.


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## Importer (30 Jul 2010)

Paddy, Im not sure if you're referring to me or not

I can assure you Im qualified and competent although working in general management at the moment.

I cant see any reason why the accounts of a small company with T/O of c100K cant be put together in one day especially if you have access to Accounts Production or similar and the spreadsheets provided by client are clear, logical and complete.

The B1 can be done in an hour (max)

The tax comp is unlikely to be complicated for a simple company like that.
(an hour or two maximum)

I dont see what your isssue is about surcharge complince for service companies. Nothing complicated in that at all

Directors returns will require a bit of interviewing but OP has already mentioned that there is nothing complex in it. In my understanding
both directors are resident, ordinarily resident and domiciled and are being paid through paye.

Im not having a go at anybody but 800 + vat is perfectly adequate for this job in my oppinion and with a bit of luck it could all be done in a day.


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## Graham_07 (30 Jul 2010)

sinsin said:


> Very straight forward really, keep details on excel - do my own VAT/PAYE





Importer said:


> I cant see any reason why the accounts of a small company with T/O of c100K cant be put together in one day especially if you have access to Accounts Production or similar and the spreadsheets provided by client are *clear, logical and complete*.
> 
> Im not having a go at anybody but 800 + vat is perfectly adequate for this job in my oppinion and with a bit of luck it could all be done in a day.



I see where you're coming from. The hub of the thing is the bold faced part. The client's impression of those 3 words and the reality often differ wildly. If everything was as you described and took max 1 day then that quote of 800+ would be profitable. The accountant needs to get the records, preview them and  see if they meet those criteria, then quote accordingly.


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## Paddy199 (30 Jul 2010)

Importer, no I wasn't referring to you. 

I just wanted to highlight one tax issue which this company may face and which may be overlooked by someone who is not competent.

What about the 46G? Has the accountant supplied the mandatory minutes for the company (AGM, directors meeting, possibly even EGM minutes). Some general advice on the results is always appreciated by clients.

And from experience of these simple operations, some supplier invoice with VAT unrecovered will be unearthed or the fixed asset register won't add up or make any sense!


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## Graham_07 (30 Jul 2010)

Paddy199 said:


> some supplier invoice with VAT unrecovered will be unearthed or the fixed asset register won't add up or make any sense!



On two occasions (for the same client) we unearthed unpaid debtor invoices which the relevant debtors acknowledged and paid once notified. In each case the amounts involved were more than our fees for the year. Some people might say that client had sloppy debtor control, others might say they had accountants who were "on the ball"  . In each case the client was very grateful and paid our fees very promptly.


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## Paddy199 (4 Aug 2010)

Graham,

I agree. It's amazing how pulling together a so called simple set of accounts throws up the strangest things.

Last year, we saved a client over €3k when we noticed a bank transfer payment to a supplier had not being allocated by the supplier to their account!! Just because the bank transfer had no reference on it, the supplier didn't bother to chase it - they did however hassle our client for an overdue account and added interest of €480 to his account!!


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