# Bertie



## levelpar (11 Jun 2010)

Anyone know whatever happened to Bertie Ahern ?

Is he in hiding?


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## TarfHead (11 Jun 2010)

levelpar said:


> Anyone know whatever happened to Bertie Ahern ?
> 
> Is he in hiding?


 
He's a backbench TD. What do you expect him to be doing ?

The last time I heard him mentioned around Leinster House, he was showing the Paisleys around.


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## Purple (11 Jun 2010)

I think he spends most of his time looking over his shoulder just in case an impromptu Lynch mob has formed behind him...


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## Latrade (11 Jun 2010)

Last I heard he was recording a remix of the Shaggy hit song "It wasn't me" called "the Lehman Brother's remix".

It may have been stalled as Bertie was looking for artist's exemption.


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## Godfather (11 Jun 2010)

latrade said:


> last i heard he was recording a remix of the shaggy hit song "it wasn't me" called "the lehman brother's remix".
> 
> It may have been stalled as bertie was looking for artist's exemption.


 
Ahahahahaha!


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## levelpar (11 Jun 2010)

> Last I heard he was recording a remix of the Shaggy hit song "It wasn't me" called "the Lehman Brother's remix".


 
Like Bart says " I did'nt do it ,nobody saw me do it , you can't prove a thing"



> He's a backbench TD. What do you expect him to be doing ?


 
Saw him ,when watching tv,some months ago sitting on an aisle seat on the last row ,waiting to slip out unnoticed . Looks like there are no more envelopes to open


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## Shawady (11 Jun 2010)

levelpar said:


> Anyone know whatever happened to Bertie Ahern ?


 

Preparing for 2011 presidential election?
Must be a dead cert......


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## ivuernis (11 Jun 2010)

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone."


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## Towger (11 Jun 2010)

Here he is last week : http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1048177&postcount=76



DrMoriarty said:


> _Ah, dey say good tings come in trees..._
> [broken link removed]


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## ninsaga (11 Jun 2010)

Happily pocketing his expenses of course!

€2250 for April - *unvouched*. Was he getting a helicopter to the Dail every day or what!


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## Moral Ethos (11 Jun 2010)

Shawady said:


> Preparing for 2011 presidential election?
> Must be a dead cert......


I hope so. I will so be looking forward to voting for someone else.


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## mtk (11 Jun 2010)

even george hook would be better


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## Caveat (11 Jun 2010)

When things get back to relative normality in this country, and people are in an even semi-reflective mood, I really think history will judge him as the most shameless chancer ever to "lead" the country. I seriously think he might have to worry for his safety.


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## Chocks away (12 Jun 2010)

mtk said:


> even george hook would be better


Surely one of the biggest insults bestowed on the Drumcondra Don


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## Purple (12 Jun 2010)

Chocks away said:


> Surely one of the biggest insults bestowed on the Drumcondra Don



+1
Either would be reason enough to leave the country.


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## johnd (12 Jun 2010)

TarfHead said:


> The last time I heard him mentioned around Leinster House, he was showing the Paisleys around.



I though it was terrible that the old bigot (Paisley) and his wife were even allowed in Leinster House! What is wrong with people, have they forgotten the ranting and raving and bile that man preached - and from a pulpit too. Best thing to do now with the likes of the Paisleys is to ignore them and eventually they will die out and no lose to society either.


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## Bill Struth (14 Jun 2010)

johnd said:


> I though it was terrible that the old bigot (Paisley) and his wife were even allowed in Leinster House! What is wrong with people, have they forgotten the ranting and raving and bile that man preached - and from a pulpit too. Best thing to do now with the likes of the Paisleys is to ignore them and eventually they will die out and no lose to society either.


+1

For years he stoked up hatred of Catholics for his own end. How many innocent people died because of him preaching hate? From his humble beginnings leading a lynch mob up the Falls in 1966, right up to the Good Friday agreement. A hateful old man.
Now he is wheeled about like some kind of statesman. Very short memories indeed.


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## Staples (14 Jun 2010)

Latrade said:


> It may have been stalled as Bertie was looking for artist's exemption.


 

Oh he's quite an artist alright.......


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## Caveat (14 Jun 2010)

johnd said:


> I though it was terrible that the old bigot (Paisley) and his wife were even allowed in Leinster House! What is wrong with people, have they forgotten the ranting and raving and bile that man preached - and from a pulpit too. Best thing to do now with the likes of the Paisleys is to ignore them and eventually they will die out and no lose to society either.


 


Bill Struth said:


> +1
> 
> For years he stoked up hatred of Catholics for his own end. How many innocent people died because of him preaching hate? From his humble beginnings leading a lynch mob up the Falls in 1966, right up to the Good Friday agreement. A hateful old man.
> Now he is wheeled about like some kind of statesman. Very short memories indeed.


 
Whilst I don't disagree with you, arguably much worse accusations can be levelled at many SF members, north and south.


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## Latrade (14 Jun 2010)

Caveat said:


> Whilst I don't disagree with you, arguably much worse accusations can be levelled at many SF members, north and south.


 
+1, the whole point of "moving on" was that all sides had to bite the bullet.


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

Caveat said:


> Whilst I don't disagree with you, arguably much worse accusations can be levelled at many SF members, north and south.





Latrade said:


> +1, the whole point of "moving on" was that all sides had to bite the bullet.


+1
The one area where Bertie did well was on Northern Ireland.


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## Green (14 Jun 2010)

Purple said:


> +1
> The *only* area where Bertie did well was on Northern Ireland.


 
Purple, fixed it for you....


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## micmclo (14 Jun 2010)

levelpar said:


> Anyone know whatever happened to Bertie Ahern ?
> 
> Is he in hiding?


 
He is a backbench TD, do you wonder about all the rest of them too?


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

YOBR said:


> Purple, fixed it for you....



maybe it should be "the one and only thing he didn't utterly screw up; a fig leaf in an otherwise utterly disastrous fiasco of a tenure as leader of this now, thanks mainly to him, benighted country"?


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

micmclo said:


> He is a backbench TD, do you wonder about all the rest of them too?


All the rest of them weren’t the worst leader this country has had since Cromwell took over.


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## cork (14 Jun 2010)

To his credit - he did a great job with Northern Ireland.

The Irish media are unfair to him ignoring the world ecomomic situation & the lack of global banking regulations.

You won't hear Irish media being critical of Alan Greenspan.

But you hear moaning and cribbing about Bertie.


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> To his credit - he did a great job with Northern Ireland.


 Coat tailing the work done by Garret Fitzgerald, CJH, John Bruton, Albert Reynolds and Dick Spring as well as people like Liz O’Donnell and Martin Mansergh.



cork said:


> The Irish media are unfair to him ignoring the world ecomomic situation & the lack of global banking regulations.


 Rubbish. He screwed up the country by buying everybody off and getting rid of anyone who was a threat or might have cost him votes. 



cork said:


> You won't hear Irish media being critical of Alan Greenspan.
> 
> But you hear moaning and cribbing about Bertie.


 I have heard the Irish media being critical of Alan Greenspan but Bertie gets more column inches and air time because he was in charge. He inherited a country that had been build on sound economic management from last Fianna Fail government under CJ right through to the Rainbow Coalition and the Reynolds/Spring government and he utterly wrecked it.

I despise him for what he has done to this country and I despised him when he was doing it.


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## micmclo (14 Jun 2010)

You inherited the country?


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## cork (14 Jun 2010)

The FG and Labour manifestos prior to the last election were all spend, spend & more spend.

The Labour party aree completely revisionist.


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## Firefly (14 Jun 2010)

Purple said:


> I despise him for what he has done to this country and I despised him when he was doing it.


 
No Christmas card Druncondra-bound this year so I take it


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

micmclo said:


> You inherited the country?


 I'm meek, I inherited the earth. 

(I fixed the typo, thanks)


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> The FG and Labour manifestos prior to the last election were all spend, spend & more spend.
> 
> The Labour party aree completely revisionist.


I agree, so what?


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## cork (14 Jun 2010)

The Irish people and political classes were in a state on oblivian with the Celtic Tiger. People demanded spend, spend + spend. 

People bought into the whole Celtic Tiger hype.

People together with politicians lost the run of themselves.


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## Staples (14 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> People demanded spend, spend + spend.


 
So would my five-year-old given the choice. But I'm (we're!!) in charge so we make the unpopular decisions to avoid going broke.

Good governence is not about responding to the prevailing whims of the electorate.


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## Purple (14 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> The Irish people and political classes were in a state on oblivian with the Celtic Tiger. People demanded spend, spend + spend.
> 
> People bought into the whole Celtic Tiger hype.
> 
> People together with politicians lost the run of themselves.


I didn't. I've been moaning and shouting and annoying people and forcing my opinions about Bertie on them since to shafted Albert. Lots of other people said the same thing. What FG said in opposition is not the point; party in opposition don't have to make the hard decisions, they make populist noises ‘till they get into power. 
Anyway, Bertie was the leader. He was in charge. It was his job to do what was in the best interest of the country but he put local party ahead of national party and national party ahead of the country. He is the worst leader we have had since independence. If economic treason was a crime he’s hang.


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## NOAH (14 Jun 2010)

Bertie was not alone.  The bit I liked from his past was the blank cheque 
signing and no bank account????  Oh that job he gave to Ivor.

What a leader?  A real gem.

noah


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## Bill Struth (15 Jun 2010)

Caveat said:


> Whilst I don't disagree with you, arguably much worse accusations can be levelled at many SF members, north and south.


 Ah yes, the obligitory "what about sinn fein". My bad. I almost forgot it.


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## Caveat (15 Jun 2010)

Bill Struth said:


> Ah yes, the obligitory "what about sinn fein". My bad. I almost forgot it.


 
Eh...OK.


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## cork (15 Jun 2010)

Purple said:


> He is the worst leader we have had since independence. If economic treason was a crime he’s hang.



The global banking crisis is not his fault.

All my old schools got big extensions whilst he was Taoiseach.

Compare unemployment and GDP under Ahern and other leaders.

Facts are - very few saw thru the frenzy. That was the mistake.


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> The global banking crisis is not his fault.
> 
> All my old schools got big extensions whilst he was Taoiseach.
> 
> ...


 
Ah well, as long as your old schools got extensions, then the Celtic Tiger wasn't wasted!


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## Latrade (15 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> The global banking crisis is not his fault.
> 
> 
> Facts are - very few saw thru the frenzy. That was the mistake.


 
Actually, the facts are that under his stewardship the government ignored any warnings or signs of  a problem (despite numerous independent and European voicings of concern) and continued with its reckless, pyramid scheme of an economic policy. 

He may not of caused the global crisis, but his policies had a hand in creating a culture of acceptance of those standards across the world. That and the issue that 3/4 of the mess we're in was his and Cowen's making and only 1/4 related to the global crisis.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> Compare unemployment and GDP under Ahern and other leaders.
> 
> Facts are - very few saw thru the frenzy. That was the mistake.



GDP and unemployment always looks good during a bubble. Plenty of people were telling him it was a bubble and he ignored them. That was his mistake.


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## Firefly (15 Jun 2010)

Purple said:


> The one area where Bertie did well was on Northern Ireland.


 
..And resigning when he did


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## markpb (16 Jun 2010)

> All my old schools got big extensions whilst he was Taoiseach.



Great! Almost a decade of vast wealth flowing into the exchequer and some schools and motorways were upgraded. Our electrical, water supply, drainage, communications, aviation and transport infrastructure floundered. Decisions that should have been taken quickly were dragged on for years. Decisions that should have been taken by government were farmed out to vested interests. Regulation was non-existent.

What bugs me most though is none of that. They used short-term income to pay for long-term expenditure. It's one of the first things you learn in 1st year JC Economics. It's the golden rule of running a country, a business or your home. They used increased VRT and stamp duty to pay for the growing public service (staff and services). Now we have the same public service but nothing to pay them with and people are suffering because of it. That's a simple, stupid mistake. 

There's no way you can tell me no-one thought the party would last forever.



cork said:


> The global banking crisis is not his fault.



Both the report published last week said the global banking crisis had little or nothing to do with our current economic state. Do you believe they're wrong?


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## Latrade (17 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> The global banking crisis is not his fault.
> 
> All my old schools got big extensions whilst he was Taoiseach.
> 
> ...


 
I've re-read this nearly 100 times and I'm still waiting to spot the punchline.


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## DerKaiser (17 Jun 2010)

cork said:


> Facts are - very few saw thru the frenzy. That was the mistake.


 
Very true.

I hate when FF say noboby could see this coming because there were plenty of people who could see exactly the problems we had.

Unfortunately, however, we had a majority of professional economists, whose clients had serious vested interests in the state of the economy, who did not forsee any problems.

For every international report that said our property market was overheating, there were others that held Ireland up as an example to the rest of the world. Even up to 2006 and 2007.

You had places like Dubai that were like our property boom on speed! So it's an Irish problem and homegrown to an extent, but not uniquely Irish.

Looking back the fundamentals were all wrong, and that's easy to see now. It should have been easy to see then. But it wasn't seen by a critical number of economists who were viewed as credible at the time.

In short, this was no solo run by FF, Bertie or Cowan. The career politicians took the wrong advice from career economists.

I'd lay the blame 100% at the door of Cowan and Bertie if the economic advice they took ran contrary to the generally held views of our professional economists at the time, but that was not the case.


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## levelpar (18 Jun 2010)

I asked if anyone knew where Bertie was and the subject went off in other directions . Anyway , I now know that he was helping to organise his daughter's secret surprise wedding


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## DrMoriarty (18 Jun 2010)

Ah, wud yiz all quit moanin' an' jus' buy the fekkin' bewk?

Nice re-review here.


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