# Employee stuck abroad



## Purple (20 May 2020)

What supports are available for employees who are foreign nationals (but still EU nationals)  who were on holidays in their home countries when the lockdown happened and now can't return?


----------



## Baby boomer (21 May 2020)

If they were EU nationals working here, but temporarily on a holiday back home, I presume they're entitled to the PUP on the basis that they're normally resident in Ireland.


----------



## Purple (21 May 2020)

Baby boomer said:


> If they were EU nationals working here, but temporarily on a holiday back home, I presume they're entitled to the PUP on the basis that they're normally resident in Ireland.


Yea, for two weeks.


----------



## Baby boomer (21 May 2020)

That would be the case for "normal" unemployment benefit, but for the Covid PUP?  Is that really the case?


----------



## fairy1 (21 May 2020)

Not entitled to Covid PUP in not in Ireland. It is only payable if you are in the country.


----------



## Purple (21 May 2020)

fairy1 said:


> Not entitled to Covid PUP in not in Ireland. It is only payable if you are in the country.


Have you a link for that?
They are habitually resident in Ireland.


----------



## fairy1 (21 May 2020)

From Welfare.ie  
*You are eligible to apply for the Pandemic Unemployment Payment if*


You were in employment or self-employment immediately before Friday 13 March, *and*
You have been temporarily laid-off from work or asked to stay at home from work, *and*
Your employer is not in a position to retain you on their payroll, *and*
You are not in receipt of any employment income_* and*_
Are between 18 and 66 years of age *and*
You worked in the Republic of Ireland *and*
You are currently living in the Republic of Ireland


----------



## Baby boomer (21 May 2020)

As far as I can make out, the PUP is a discretionary scheme.  It's not statutory based so in effect, there's no rules apart from what you've posted from welfare.ie.  It's the Department's scheme and they can adopt wherever guidelines they see fit.  This is unlike most welfare payment where there are comprehensive rules set out.  And the Covid PUP guidelines have changed from time to time, particularly in relation to the self employed. 

As to the meaning of "currently living in" Ireland, this is open to definition.  For most social welfare benefits, the qualification is "habitually resident" and is based on your entitlement and intention to reside in Ireland.  You can take brief holidays and still be habitually resident.  Given the extraordinary circumstances we're currently in, I'd imagine a flexible approach would be taken if there was a genuine intention to return to Ireland as soon as medical guidance allows.


----------



## fairy1 (21 May 2020)

It is classed as an Emergency Supplementary Payment, not payable once you leave Ireland. It is not payable if you are not currently living in Ireland, how is that open to definition. You are either in the country or not. It has nothing to do with been habitually resident in Ireland. People that worked in the Republic of Ireland but live in Northern Ireland also have no entitlements.


----------



## Baby boomer (21 May 2020)

I would suggest that if somebody who is habitually resident in Ireland, owns or rents a home here, has a job here and has an intention to stay here for the foreseeable future meets the test of "living in Ireland."

Now if that person happened to be on holiday back in their native country in mid March, and is advised not to travel on medical grounds, and has been laid off by their Irish employer, I can't see why the PUP shouldn't be paid.


----------



## faketales (22 May 2020)

fairy1 said:


> It is classed as an Emergency Supplementary Payment, not payable once you leave Ireland. It is not payable if you are not currently living in Ireland, how is that open to definition. You are either in the country or not. It has nothing to do with been habitually resident in Ireland. People that worked in the Republic of Ireland but live in Northern Ireland also have no entitlements.



They clearly don't live the Republic of Ireland though. Going on holidays for two weeks does not change where you live. The fact it is their home country is irrelevant.

Would you consider an Irish born person who got stuck in Spain while on a two week holiday as no longer living in Ireland?


----------



## fairy1 (22 May 2020)

I am only stating conditions required for payment. It would be impossible to control if payments were allowed outside Ireland.


----------



## Purple (22 May 2020)

fairy1 said:


> I am only stating conditions required for payment. It would be impossible to control if payments were allowed outside Ireland.


So if you are an EU citizen and live here, have a job here and pay taxes here, your wife and children live here but you are stuck in another country then tough luck; you get nothing. Seems a bit harsh. In reality we are topping up everyone's wages who is out with the disease, self isolating or stuck abroad. This really comes down to whether we , not the employee, will have to pay the money back to the Department, because whatever happens the employee won't be paying it. We are in the fortunate position of being able to do the right thing so we'll do the right thing.


----------



## Leo (22 May 2020)

In relation to the PUP, this is only applicable to employees who are temporarily laid off due to COVID-19. So it will not cover someone who is unable to return to the country to resume their work. 

There is no condition attached to the PUP that states you must be in the country. I've seen nothing that suggests the standard habitual residency tests do not  apply here.


----------



## Drakon (4 Jun 2020)

Purple said:


> What supports are available for employees who are foreign nationals (but still EU nationals)  who were on holidays in their home countries when the lockdown happened and now can't return?


They should just return to Ireland. Though flights are down 99%, 1% of flights remain. 
I was checking out flights last month, ORK
-> LHR, €75 each way. Not bad. 
I didn’t go, nowt like that, had no reason. 
But AFAIK, “returning home to Ireland” is permitted as a valid excuse.

10 years ago, a number of colleagues of mine took advantage of the ash cloud to stay abroad, working “available for calls”.
One of them was in London! Refused to get a train and ferry!


----------



## Purple (4 Jun 2020)

Drakon said:


> 10 years ago, a number of colleagues of mine took advantage of the ash cloud to stay abroad, working “available for calls”.
> One of them was in London! Refused to get a train and ferry!


Remember the second ash cloud? I was stuck in Aberdeen so I hired a car and drove to Manchester and got a flight from there.


----------



## Drakon (4 Jun 2020)

Long drive. Fair boules.


----------

