# Planning Permission for changes to a driveway



## jericho.ie (2 Feb 2010)

Hi folks,
Just wondering if someone could please advise re a planning issue (apologies in advance for length of this post)
I've reviewed the relevant documentation on the county council/ environ.ie website but I'm still not sure.
I recently built an extension to the rear of my property.
This was exempt from planning, although we advised both neighbours beforehand,
and told them that if they had any concerns to please contact us and we would resolve them.
Semi D house, the neighbour adjoining had no issues.
The folks on the other side did have some complaints as we recently found out, but they never raised them with us (dirt, noise etc while building)
There is a patch of grass about 2 feet wide on each side of the boundary at the front of the house.
There is a wall between the alleyways and a fence to the rear between the houses but only a concrete lip at ground level separating the grass patches.
This is not the attached house but the other side. 
My driveway is one side of this grass, theirs on the other.
The builder destroyed this grass over the course of the few months (my side only, I warned him not to walk on theirs),
so I opted to cover mine with concrete as it had become a mud patch.
The only problem is that there was always an incline from my driveway to theirs (our house is higher)
and therefore water naturally flowed from our driveway to our grass patch, to their grass and in very heavy rain possibly on to their driveway.
This is/ was resolved by maintaining drains/ keeping them free from silt buildup etc.
I'm not saying that all water that falls on the driveway flows to their grass, the driveway itself has adequate drainage. But the water that would have fallen on/ drained into the grass patch would not potentially move to their grass.
I guess this has potentially made an existing problem slightly worse.
I engaged a tradesman to have a look, he said he could raise the boundary marker by an inch or two thereby insuring that the water would not flow from one property to the other.
Since the problem already existed I offered to pay half the cost, less than 100 euro each.
Now my questions:
1. Was I in breach of planning regs by widening the driveway? 
2. What's best practice in this type of situation? Has anyone been in a similar situation?

I was on the verge of just saying I'd pay for it altogether, for the sake of peace, but then the neighbour threatened my wife and I with physical violence so I doubt a reconcillatory route will be happening. It's pretty sad that a small problem that would have been resolved at less cost than 200 euro has led to threats of violence but this is where I now am unfortunately.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## onq (2 Feb 2010)

The County Development Plan may determine what the Council will enforce, or it may be held in the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 as amended.

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Co for example usually takes no action for providing hard standing for up to two car spaces. Widening the driveway 600mm doesn't seem to be an issue in that context, but if you already have tow car spaces there may be an issue. LA's differ so you should check this.

The are other issues. 

#1 Grumpy Neighbours

The building works have obviously gotten under your neighbours skin, possibly just because you can afford an extension as well as the reasons you give. It doesn't matter what you do now, your irate neighbours will find fault. Such people will always be with us. Ignore them.

#2 Porous Paving

There was no need to pave the 600m in concrete - your builder could have used water porous material or pavoirs/brick set to allow water drain away between them. If you do this it will avoid having to deal with your neighbours on a boundary issue. Or else reinstate some new sod on new soil free from cement dust. You can buy it in rolls.

HTH

ONQ.


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## DBK100 (2 Feb 2010)

I would agree with ONQ, Planning Regulations and Exemptions are not the issue here. Neighbourly relations and consideration are.
You have made a small change which has given rise to a (probably) relatively small issue for your neighbours. Their position however will be that this situation should not have arisen, and that you caused it. These things can take on a life of their own and are better dealt with in a neighbourly manner.
Despite the stated threat from your neighbour, I would be inclined to rectify the cause of the problem myself (given how insignificant the sum involved is) and recognise that I have learned a valuable lesson about my neighbour.
People who threaten violence over such minor matters are best kept at arms length. There is no point in 'winning the argument'. 
Get things back as before and enjoy the peace!

If you want to know why, take a look at some of the fascinating stories in this UK forum:
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php?sid=74f1f8b771910f66d381b7ee90b62f97
(It is UK law, but very valuable info on dealing with neighbour problems).

or buy this book:
[broken link removed]
"The Sociopath Next Door"

DBK100 - MESH Architects


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## jericho.ie (3 Feb 2010)

ONQ and DBK100, thank you both for your comments.
Much appreciated.


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## onq (3 Feb 2010)

+1 what DBK100 has advised, which has set me thinking...

jericho.ie, one of your neighbours has threatened both you and your wife with physical violence. Never mind what they think you've done, that's not acceptable.
Keeping it on topic I disregarded this issue in my original post but DBK100 has rounded out the discussion. If there's trouble like that brewing, or stewing, waiting to boil over at the slightest provocation, I think you may need to take some steps.

I think you'll find that even if you put things to rights on your side, the mere fact of your builder doing more work may encourage more threats.
Its as well to nip this in the bud but remember, its your word against your neighbours regarding his/her past issuing of the threat.

As a first step, to get this on the record, consider informing your local Garda Community Officer and call in for a quiet chat explaining the situation.

 This is a low key reporting method for domestics and civils - low key, as opposed to making a formal complaint and ending up with a squad car arriving at your neighbours door and him vehemently denying the threat was ever made.
As part of your reporting the incident [which you should do in a calm, controlled manner and not lose hte head] you may find your neighbout has been making complaints about parking noise and nuisance to the Gardaí, and naturally this could colour any future involvement by the Gardaí.
The Gardaí may wish to call out regardless to inspect the property and form an opinion as to the cause of your neightbour's ire, so you risk thme arriving anyway - it may make matters worse, but at least its on the record.

Whether you go down this road or not is entirely up to you, but I strongly advise that both you and your wife put the local Garda Station number on your speed dials in case there is another confrontation.
Do not be intimidated by these people.

One other thing - interview your builder and see if the neighbours have "had words" with him on any occassion - I doubt that this threat of violence came out of the blue and there could be issues you need to be aware of before reporting anything to the Gardaí.

HTH

ONQ.


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## DBK100 (3 Feb 2010)

onq said:


> As a first step, to get this on the record, consider informing your local Garda Community Officer and call in for a quiet chat explaining the situation.ONQ.



Very much in agreement on this, and keep a diary of any events (date, time, description). I had problem neighbours and sent emails of all events to a Gmail account set up for that purpose. That way the record cannot be fabricated or altered at a later date.
The Gardai will give you good sensible advice on how to respond to and deal with any "Neighbour from Hell" behaviour.


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## jericho.ie (3 Feb 2010)

Thanks again folks.
I did immediately report the threats to the Gardaí.
They called out and asked for my version of events, I made them aware that I was not looking to them for dispute resolution, a civil matter, but I simply wanted it on the record in case it ever escalated to actual violence.
The gardaí told me that the neighbour would be cautioned, hopefully this will be enough to deter him, although I somehow doubt it. I'm sure you're correct in that he probably denied making the threat, there's nothing I can do about that as I have no evidence. I've bought a security camera now though so at least I will have a record of any future events if required.

I spoke with my builder also, he said no issues were brought to his attention from that neighbour. 

I'm letting things cool for a few days anyway before I take any further action, that's the legal advice I've been given.

Thanks to both of you for your advice, I appreciate it.


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## onq (4 Feb 2010)

DBK100 said:


> Very much in agreement on this, and keep a diary of any events (date, time, description). I had problem neighbours and sent emails of all events to a Gmail account set up for that purpose. That way the record cannot be fabricated or altered at a later date.
> The Gardai will give you good sensible advice on how to respond to and deal with any "Neighbour from Hell" behaviour.



DBK100,

I take your point about keeping a diary, but the remote account - like a diary - only works if other people know about it and can swear to its truthfulness; after all, anyone could post anything to a remote account. You could end up producing it and unless you had witness or photographic or video corroberation, it would be your [recorded] word against theirs.

My preferred method and one which usually flushes out the messers on a job, is to e-mail all parties. If there is an error on my part, the client and up ot three other professional offices will hopefully pick it up - its a form of peer review, instigated while everyone is friendly, which can help keep them in line should things get strained.

Where matters are already fraught, videos and photos are better records that recorded writing, unless that writing is either an e-mail or the photocopied text of a registered letter. A person can still bluff and try to deny the contents of a registered letter, but they cannot say they didn't get it. They'll find it difficult to deny a video or photograhic record.



HTH

ONQ.

[broken link removed]


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## jericho.ie (1 Apr 2010)

Update on this.

I paid a builder/ landscaper 400 to dig out the section of driveway.
Re-lay it new. Slope it back towards my place, ensuring there would be zero chance of any surface run off towards the neighbours. He called into them and they said they would be happy with those changes.

Three weeks later I received a solicitors letter.
The neighbour is a solicitor, it was sent from her father/ brother, on their firm's headed paper.
It made many false accusations, and demanded "damages" for alleged sections of dead grass among other things.

The person in question obviously knew the logic that for me to engage a solicitor would cost more than getting some guy to give them some nice new grass.

Infuriates me to be quite honest, but I've paid a guy another 100 euro to dig and re-lay a few sections of their garden. It was either that or spend double that amount engaging a solicitor for a battle I might not win.

I hope this will be the end of it, but I have a feeling it wont be.
Wife and I are very sick of it, to be honest, had we not invested so much money in this house, and were we not in negative equity already, we would probably sell up and move.


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## onq (1 Apr 2010)

You should have taken photos of the before and after situations on tow occassions.

1. Before and after the original work.

2. Before and after the remedial work.

This records the work, its consequences and your willingness to resolve matters.

ONQ.


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