# Planning permission, site boundaries and sewage



## kkilkenny (21 Feb 2012)

Sorry in advance for the length of the post. All a bit of a mess at the moment so would like some advice.

We purchased house from joint family members , who had split his land and built our house on it. Was close family, and although we have now learned from our mistakes, we used same solicitor and architect was also family-in-law. 

When we bought, the solicitor picked up that the sewage system was supposed to be puraflo with a percolation area in the back. We were told by family mbr the septic tank we had was an older one but was fine and as long as we upgraded to a puraflo in the future there would be no issues, so we agreed to this and went ahead with sale.

4 years later we are getting married in the summer so because we still have no garden or driveway I asked other half to look into sorting out the septic tank before we put the driveway down. 

So after getting the architect out again to look at the place we are in the following situation:
On the planning permission – the septic tank was at back of house where it is now,  the percolation area is on the land above it (the garden is on two levels). At present we cannot put percolation there as its where the water well is. After comparing the plans to the land we bought, the garden in the plans is double the length of what we actually own. The water well was supposed to be at the very back. 
Basically the family member had a field and we own a corner of it but on the plans that he got permission for it goes the length of the field.  This means that our water and sewage system will prob not work in the back garden. 

The problem is that the family member has given this end part of the field (prob 1/3rd acre) to the farmer behind us who had given us a couple of feet at the side of the house when they built it. As far as I know no paperwork in land ownership has been transferred but the farmer has moved his fence etc so we have no access to it. If we could get the land we could move the well and put everything else where its supposed to be as I don’t want my children to be burdened by all this when it comes time to pass it on to them. I seriously doubt the family member will ask for this land back from the farmer (even though technically its not the farmers) and on the slim chance that the farmer agreed to give it back we couldn’t afford to buy it ourselves unless we cancelled the wedding.  

We haven’t spoken to the family member about this yet as we want to be fully informed first.
Anyone know if there is anything I can do as I can not see a way out of this. The architect measured the front garden and said puraflo could go out there but it still wouldn’t comply, actually we then saw that it specified some envirocare system not puraflo like we were told.

If we cant get the land back what would be next step, apply for permission for a puraflo out the front? And if we were denied this are we in an unfixable situation?


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## lowCO2design (21 Feb 2012)

your architect is best placed to advise. but it sounds like the first thing to do is to lay out the options in order of preference and discuss amongst yourselves and then with the in-laws. who ever holds the deeds to the land your require is the priority stake holder. If there was a verbal agreement with the between you and your inlaws then I would asking them to respect this and fullfill their verbal 'ah sure it'll grand' contract you unknowingly entered into. what was the problem with putting the system in the front apart from the cost of pipework etc? is it a lack of distances?


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## kkilkenny (21 Feb 2012)

We never had a verbal agreement with the family member about the top bit of land as we were unaware that it was required in order to fulfil the planning permission they got. He has now verbally given it to the farmer.

I would be happy putting a puraflo system piped out to the front as long as its within regulations etc, but again it doesnt comply with the planning permission, which i understand could be a problem for us in the future?


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## Importer (21 Feb 2012)

Your solicitor should not have allowed you to buy a property that was not compliant with the planning permission for the property.

Probably best to go the diplomatic route first and talk it out with your family member who sold you the property. Maybe you can find a way forward. If it gets nasty, I think the solicitor will need to speak up.


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## lowCO2design (22 Feb 2012)

kkilkenny said:


> We never had a verbal agreement with the family member about the top bit of land as we were unaware that it was required in order to fulfil the planning permission they got. He has now verbally given it to the farmer.


who sold you the site? who received the planning permission? who should have installed a waste treatment system as per that planning permsision? there you go - your in-laws perhaps? while its buyer beware and your ultimately responsible now as the owner, they would appear to your port of call to solve this. but I appreciate this conversation is easier avoided, so lets discount your other options first:


> I would be happy putting a puraflo system piped out to the front as long as its within regulations etc, but again it doesnt comply with the planning permission, which i understand could be a problem for us in the future?


your architect/eng can assess whether this will comply, you will offer course disrupt your front garden, but that and a new planning application may be the simplest way around dealing with your inlaws, as your clearly avoiding a confrontation with them. talk to your architect about this location and the costs of preparing a planning application. best of luck


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## Woodie (22 Feb 2012)

I'd go with lowCO2design on this one.   If you intend to avoid problems with the relatives then you will probably need to go the route of getting new planning permission for the rearranged site layout.   This assumes that the site is suitable which at first reading your architect seems to think it so, however that is no guarantee.   Your documents of sale will show exactly what you purchased even if this does not match what you think you bought, solicitor involved for this part is required.
The whole case however does point out why old ways of giving bits of land here and there without paperwork is a bad idea.  As too the whole issue of lack of regulation by the authorities during the building process. saying nothing of the builder who put your septic tank beside the well! We are learning hard lessons as a nation because of this ad hoc approach, time to have a true national register of actual property ownership and compliance regime in building.  It would avoid you having this problem now.
I hope it works out for you.  I would go the planning route and sleep easy in the future knowing your plot, sewage and water are compliant. Then if you or your children in the future want to sell you won't have the deal with the problems again.  However I think that the relatives have some questions to answer.


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