# How important is a 3rd level degree on a CV?



## car (22 Jul 2008)

Just discussing this in the office. As I work in an I.T. technical area, a college degree might not be as important if relevant experience exists, when deciding on a candidate for senior_ish_ tech role, but we're all agreed it becomes more of a necessity for more senior_ish_ management positions.

How do you view the lack of a 3rd level education on a CV?


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## dem_syhp (22 Jul 2008)

If someone has obviously surpassed or shown experience to be far superior to those with degrees it doesn't matter.  However, it's getting to that position that can be difficult - and you generally need to be prove yourself in advance to be considered (acting manager while someone is away, or team lead, etc).   

However, it is harder!  Sometimes harder than going and getting the qualification.  

It also depends what level person you're managing. 

Conversely someone can have all the degrees in the world and not be able to manage people, or projects.


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## D8Lady (22 Jul 2008)

In IT, its not the third level degree per se, its the having relevent knowledge and being able to prove it. Given the rate of change in technology, people to need to keep upskilling e.g. CISCO certifications.

At the moment, I'm finding that this is more in demand. 

D8L


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## dtlyn (22 Jul 2008)

D8Lady said:


> In IT, its not the third level degree per se, its the having relevent knowledge and being able to prove it. Given the rate of change in technology, people to need to keep upskilling e.g. CISCO certifications.
> 
> At the moment, I'm finding that this is more in demand.
> 
> D8L



On the contrary, given the rate of change in technology, yesterdays certification effort is today's waste of time.

A Computer Science degree instils the abstract thinking, foundational principles, software and hardware engineering fundamentals, analytic all of which transcend the latest certification.

Anybody can pass the JCSP exam given enough time, doesn't make you an excellent software engineer.


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## yob (22 Jul 2008)

My training is not with computer science and technology.
in my experience 3rd level is of the upmost if you want the promotions,as i failed to get them for some years even though i had the experience and had taking the part of acting manager,or manager designate.
in the end i went back to college and never looked back.


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## bankrupt (22 Jul 2008)

car said:


> How do you view the lack of a 3rd level education on a CV?



Experience is all that counts for senior staff.  A degree is extremely useful at the beginning of a career but becomes increasingly irrelevant later on.



[*]Excluding disciplines that require a qualification to allow you to practice of course!


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## galwegian44 (23 Jul 2008)

I've got 20+ years of IT experience and I'm currently studying for my IT degree. The company I worked for in 2002 was offshored and I found that HR departments (and even recruitment agencies) were culling the applicants using filters such as IT Degree required, regardless of experience.

If you can get your CV to the IT Manager/Director then you are probably OK with your experience but an IT degree certainly helps. 



bankrupt said:


> Experience is all that counts for senior staff. A degree is extremely useful at the beginning of a career but becomes increasingly irrelevant later on.
> 
> 
> [*]Excluding disciplines that require a qualification to allow you to practice of course!


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## bankrupt (23 Jul 2008)

galwegian44 said:


> I've got 20+ years of IT experience and I'm currently studying for my IT degree. The company I worked for in 2002 was offshored and I found that HR departments (and even recruitment agencies) were culling the applicants using filters such as IT Degree required, regardless of experience.



Good point Galwegian44.   HR departments have no idea how to select appropriate candidates for IT roles in my experience.  You are quite correct that they are likely to see a degree as "essential" when pre-qualifying.  As a general rule HR should be bypassed or ignored whenever possible.


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## Diziet (23 Jul 2008)

bankrupt said:


> Good point Galwegian44.   HR departments have no idea how to select appropriate candidates for IT roles in my experience.  You are quite correct that they are likely to see a degree as "essential" when pre-qualifying.  As a general rule HR should be bypassed or ignored whenever possible.



It is an eminently reasonable screening test, and HR don't act in isolation. I would view the lack of a degree with suspicion, and given two candidates with similar experience, I would indeed differentiate  the basis of the degree. So what I am saying is that the candidate without the degree would have a lot more convincing to do before a job offer materialised.

Diziet (IT professional, have been a hiring manager, not HR)


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## bankrupt (24 Jul 2008)

Diziet said:


> It is an eminently reasonable screening test, and HR don't act in isolation. I would view the lack of a degree with suspicion, and given two candidates with similar experience, I would indeed differentiate  the basis of the degree. So what I am saying is that the candidate without the degree would have a lot more convincing to do before a job offer materialised.



For a senior position there is nothing reasonable about rejecting a candidate on the basis that they have no 3rd level qualification (again assuming that we're talking about a role that does not require specific training).  There is certainly nothing suspicious about having no 3rd level degree and in my view anyone who has managed to work up to a senior position without one is to probably to be commended, not condemned.

In my experience HR departments have been entirely useless as part of the hiring process for IT roles.  (I suspect that the rise of HR may in fact be due to a cruel practical joke that went horribly wrong.)


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## Mpsox (24 Jul 2008)

If you are applying for an internal role, a degree may not be as crucial as it is easier to prove your creditionals based on what you have done for the company

If you are applying for an external role, then a degree will help you stand out from other candidates who have none. It won't get you the job, but it will give you extra points against other candidates who don't have one, so it may help you get on the shortlist

A degree, espeically one earned part time whilst working can also demonstrate dilligence and apptitude, a determination to "improve" yourself by upskilling and a practical thesis in areas you may want to get into will all add to your arguement why you should get the roll


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## bankrupt (24 Jul 2008)

Mpsox said:


> If you are applying for an external role, then a degree will help you stand out from other candidates who have none. It won't get you the job, but it will give you extra points against other candidates who don't have one, so it may help you get on the shortlist.



I agree with you Mpsox, a lot of people (and HR in particular) will use a degree as a deciding factor.  It is only my personal opinion that it is irrelevant for senior roles, I appreciate that a lot of hiring managers will not share this view.



> A degree, espeically one earned part time whilst working can also demonstrate dilligence and apptitude, a determination to "improve" yourself by upskilling and a practical thesis in areas you may want to get into will all add to your arguement why you should get the roll



I do not claim that having a degree is any kind of hindrance but presumably someone studying for one part-time is more likely to be doing so in order to effect a career change?  In which case, a degree is going to be helpful to move into a new (junior) role where the candidate may not yet have any experience.  

When considering someone with 10 years or more of experience in their chosen field the presence or absence of a degree is just not that important in my opinion.


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## picene (25 Jul 2008)

> When considering someone with 10 years or more of experience in their chosen field the presence or absence of a degree is just not that important in my opinion



what about a doctor, vet, solicitor etc?
You could learn all these jobs on the job or by reading books etc just IT people without a degree  could but at the end of the day the degree signifies that some one has a good basic knowledge and grounding in the fundamentals of software design and development and is some what competant


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## bankrupt (26 Jul 2008)

picene said:


> what about a doctor, vet, solicitor etc?
> You could learn all these jobs on the job or by reading books etc just IT people without a degree  could but at the end of the day the degree signifies that some one has a good basic knowledge and grounding in the fundamentals of software design and development and is some what competant



I mentioned above that I was not referring to disciplines that require formal qualification to practice.  I would of course expect a doctor to have the necessary qualifications!

My point is that when considering a *senior *candidate, it is their experience that is important.  In my opnion, their degree (or absence of same) is of no relevance, a degree is certainly no indicator of competence.


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## ang1170 (26 Jul 2008)

bankrupt said:


> My point is that when considering a *senior *candidate, it is their experience that is important. In my opnion, their degree (or absence of same) is of no relevance, a degree is certainly no indicator of competence.


 
It may be your opinion (and it's one I happen to share) but unfortunatly it is quite common to screen CVs on criteria like whether the candidate has a degree or not. In those cases, the decision maker mighn't even get to see a CV of a job applicant.

At the very least, it puts you at a disadvantage in not having a degree for a lot of positions.


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## bankrupt (26 Jul 2008)

ang1170 said:


> It may be your opinion (and it's one I happen to share) but unfortunatly it is quite common to screen CVs on criteria like whether the candidate has a degree or not. In those cases, the decision maker mighn't even get to see a CV of a job applicant.
> 
> At the very least, it puts you at a disadvantage in not having a degree for a lot of positions.



I agree with you ang1170, I have already made that point.


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## ang1170 (26 Jul 2008)

It's odd how easily it is to fall into the same trap, though. It so happens we're on a recruitment drive at the moment, and this very point was brought up: that we shouldn't discount applicants who didn't have a degree. We all agreed this made sense, and yet there it was in the ad we'd already placed: "...must have a degree". How many didn't apply because of that line?


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