# Petrol prices - is there a tipping point ?



## lukegriffen (19 Apr 2006)

With prices heading for €1.10/ltr, I'm just wondering whether people think there'll be some kind of tipping point any time soon, ie. the price at which people start changing their car usage based on the price at the pump, and either start using public transport or telling the kids to make their own way to school !  
At the moment, anyone I've talked to doesn't seem that bothered & aren't going to lower their mileage.


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## bearishbull (19 Apr 2006)

we're a long way off that for the majority of people. look at the amount of gas guzzlers on irish roads and you'lll see most dont care about wasting fuel at current prices so i doubt 20 or 30 cents a litre is gonna worry them.if our economy wasnt doing so well im sure this could be different. look at the yanks they think their gas/petrol is really expensive now even though we are far higher in price here,i dont see many complaining here yet.oil prices have tripled in 5 years but has petrol? because of the large tax element to it here i dont think the rises are equivalent but not sure.


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## Lorz (19 Apr 2006)

Heading for €1.10 per ltr?  It's already €1.13 per ltr in Cork!  

I don't think people will consider leaving the car at home and taking public transport to work because for a lot of people (myself incl) public transport isn't an option - it simply isn't available - unless I could start at 11am or later!


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## Purple (19 Apr 2006)

I have no option but to use the car. I can't get to work on public transport and use the car during the day. Personally I don't care if it goes up by 50 cent a ltr. An extra €20 a week won't kill me.


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## Carpenter (19 Apr 2006)

Purple said:
			
		

> I have no option but to use the car. I can't get to work on public transport and use the car during the day. Personally I don't care if it goes up by 50 cent a ltr. An extra €20 a week won't kill me.


 
€20 a week extra won't kill me either but I'd rather not be paying inflated fuel prices especially when the fuel prices are artificially set anyway- i.e. fuel prices go up or down based on fears of shortage/ or surplus of supply.  Personally I shop around for the best value at the pump (insofar as that is possible or feasible) and I am aware of the effect driving style has on economy etc.  Luckily I am within walking distance to my employment and can walk to work 'most every day.  People who are aware of fuel economy etc. (people like me ) are also the type of people who will switch off unnecessary electric appliances etc.  A lot of people don't bother, probably about the same number of people who aren't interested in recycling or reducing their consumption of stuff either I suppose.


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## gearoidmm (19 Apr 2006)

E20/week = E1000/year.  That combined with rising interest rates and hence mortgage repayments is going to stress a lot of people financially. + rising inflation, + increased energy costs (ESB announced yesterday that their margins for home customers are ~1.5% - if oil prices stay high expect a large increase in the ESB bill too).

Agreed that most people don't have a realistic choice about using the car - it would probably take a doubling of price before you'd see a reduction in usage.

BTW see the taxi drivers are looking for a 50c fuel surcharge on every journey!


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## Purple (19 Apr 2006)

gearoidmm said:
			
		

> (ESB announced yesterday that their margins for home customers are ~1.5% - if oil prices stay high expect a large increase in the ESB bill too).


 I'm more bothered by this sort of c**p from public utility monopolies. Why can't they cut their cost base (the bit that they control) like the rest of us?


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## Carpenter (19 Apr 2006)

Actually I think the biggest impact will be on the recent homeowners who've purchased houses in the commuter belt, places like Portarlington, Portlaoise etc. based on the economic viability of purchasing a house in a cheaper location whilst driving to work in the capital each day.  With every increase in fuel and other running costs the balance is tipped heavily against them.  Rising fuel prices will impact heavily on all consumer goods and construction costs will rocket- tipping the balance further...


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## dockingtrade (19 Apr 2006)

with all the fuel hikes increasing costs across the board for consumers nad businesses and the fact the stuff is going to run out, wheres the talk/push on bio fuel ethanol etc. Will the bio reneale stuff replace oil inthe future where is the world at with the repalcement of oil. More importantly what companies are looking good with the alternative energy sources. When can we a change in the oil companies abilty to hold the world to ransom???


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## dodo (19 Apr 2006)

Not in Ireland we are awash with money,look at cigs,drink we just keep buying it is in our nature even if u go abroad on holidays the Irish I would say on average bring more holiday cash than other EU Countries, I travel alot and the Irish just think the money will always be there so far Its been throught, In the states if it goes up a small % they start to use public transport, If average fuel in car is around 35 E a week give or take Dublin area,so if Petrol goes up  say 25% that would mean price would be  44E would that be  a problem to most with cars ,I dont think so, Price of 2 Pints


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## Duplex (19 Apr 2006)

Posters may find this price comparison site useful.



http://www.pumps.ie/


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## CN624 (19 Apr 2006)

There are obviously people who need their car to get to work/school/shops etc as they live a good distance away and will need to drive no matter what the price is, but I've noticed that people are becoming a lot lazier and using their car for the most pointless reasons. 
I live less than 300 yards as the crow flies from the shops and the two girls I live with refuse to walk. If we are heading over together I'd walk and they'd drive. I'd get there around the same time & then they spend a couple of minutes trying to get a parking space near the door. Its nonsensical on a time, financial & environmental basis.

Its the same with the school run in the morning. People within a five minute walk of the school rather spend half an hour queing to drop off their 'little' darling right at the gates. And there are a lot of them that could do with the exercise! But thats another thread I suppose...

As we've become wealthier, we've become lazier. I'd guess the price of petrol will have to hit 2euro before you will get people to actively change their driving habits.


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## brodiebabe (19 Apr 2006)

I cycled to the shops yesterday rather than take the car.  I couldn't have walked as it is a tad to far but it was a nice cycle.  I deliberately did this because of the rising cost of petrol and I intend to cycle as much as I can rather than use the car.


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## Goldman (20 Apr 2006)

Average tank is 45/50 litres .increased by approx 25 c over last 2 and half yrs.thats an extra 12.50 every tank-which is a big difference. If the same trend continued for another 2 yrs it would be intersting to see the no. of 4wheel drive cars(huge consumption) on city roads.


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## Winnie (20 Apr 2006)

For me I have to drive to work as there is no alternative.  So I probably will not be changing my driving habits due to increases in petrol.  However I think when the SSIA comes through I will be changing my car to a smaller engine - currently have 1.6 but think will change down to a 1.3.  Can't understand anyone buying big 2litre + engines with the prices of petrol at the moment.

As for the person who commented that €20 extra a week won't break the bank - when you are spending €160 every month on petrol as it is, this would bring it up to €240 a month ...... so while no it won't break the bank, as far as I am concerned it is a waste of money & I would prefer to spend that €80 a month on something besides petrol!


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## Carpenter (20 Apr 2006)

The whole debate about the use of a car for short non-essential journeys is an interesting one.  I've often contemplated making more use of my bike as I only live 5 minutes from town but I am discouraged by the lack of adequate cycle lanes.  We have some "cycle lanes" that radiate from the periphery of the town but there are no actual lanes in and around the town.  It's a pity and I know that it's a problem that exists in every town in the country.


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## Swoon0 (20 Apr 2006)

The media hype doesn't help, when the price of a barrel of oil hit 70 dollars I could see the petrol station owners running out to change the prices, even though it was probably bought 3 months ago !!!!


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## conor_mc (20 Apr 2006)

Winnie said:
			
		

> For me I have to drive to work as there is no alternative. So I probably will not be changing my driving habits due to increases in petrol. However I think when the SSIA comes through I will be changing my car to a smaller engine - currently have 1.6 but think will change down to a 1.3. Can't understand anyone buying big 2litre + engines with the prices of petrol at the moment.


 
Depends on your regular routes to be honest - a 1.3 is fine for nipping around the city, but if you're doing motorway driving at 120kph, a larger engine will be much more fuel efficient. A diesel even more so, if your annual mileage justifies the higher price of buying one.

Having said that, I don't see any need to go beyond a 2 litre engine either.


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## qingdao (20 Apr 2006)

Interesting article about what Iran president siad about oil not at true value.

[broken link removed]


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## qingdao (20 Apr 2006)

found this

There are 159 litres (42 US gallons) in a barrel of oil. Once refined a barrel of oil yields about 72 litres (19 US gallons) of gasoline.

rest can be used for other things.
[broken link removed]


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## shnaek (20 Apr 2006)

It's not just our personal transport that's affected by oil price increases. These increases factor into every product we buy. They factor into our holidays (eg. plane tickets). They fuel inflation, thus fueling interest rate rises. All these things are connected. This is why the world worries so much when oil prices rise. It doesn't just mean €20 at the pump, it means a percentage increase in everything we buy, and every service we consume.
So yes, there is definitely a tipping point.


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## Winnie (20 Apr 2006)

Swoon0 said:
			
		

> The media hype doesn't help, when the price of a barrel of oil hit 70 dollars I could see the petrol station owners running out to change the prices, even though it was probably bought 3 months ago !!!!


 
I imagine that they cost the fuel based on replacement cost & this is why they put prices up imediately as the cost goes up


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## Purple (20 Apr 2006)

Winnie said:
			
		

> I imagine that they cost the fuel based on replacement cost & this is why they put prices up imediately as the cost goes up


 That would be true if they reduced their price with the same speed when bulk prices go down.


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## whizzbang (20 Apr 2006)

I've noticed that the garages along my route to work have all upped their prices twice this week already! here is an example
[broken link removed]

i think they are trying to improve margins based on people hearing prices are going up!

I run pumps.ie just to be open and honest and all
Interestingly the traffic to the site has rocketed this week, clearly people are concerned about petrol prices again!

Please add in any stations or prices that the site is missing, the more people who use it the better it will get!

Cheers!


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## aonfocaleile (20 Apr 2006)

*The end of oil: the decline of the petroleum economy and the rise of a new energy order* 
  Roberts, Paul 

I came across the book above during some research recently and I'd recommend it to anyone with even a general interest in the future of oil and petrol. Although its factual, it reads like a novel and I genuinely couldn't put it down. Some of it is kinda worrying though but definitely worth a read. Mine was library copy.


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## Jeanne (20 Apr 2006)

And what do you think of the 'Paddy's' who recently struck oil in Belize (feel free to correct my spelling). Any of you heard about that? Apparently the texans have been drilling for oil in Belize for years and a group of inexperienced Irish speculators struck oil there recently.  

Embarrassing confession now  I queued for about 30 minutes this evening at Tesco petrol station in Sandyford to fill up. Report on the radio said unleaded would be EURO 1.20 tomorrow. Wanted to fill up at 1.10.
I did actually feel silly though.....


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## bearishbull (20 Apr 2006)

Jeanne said:
			
		

> And what do you think of the 'Paddy's' who recently struck oil in Belize (feel free to correct my spelling). Any of you heard about that? Apparently the texans have been drilling for oil in Belize for years and a group of inexperienced Irish speculators struck oil there recently.
> 
> Embarrassing confession now  I queued for about 30 minutes this evening at Tesco petrol station in Sandyford to fill up. Report on the radio said unleaded would be EURO 1.20 tomorrow. Wanted to fill up at 1.10.
> I did actually feel silly though.....


 yes you are a silly woman! follow the herd you lemming! ha ,only kidding.


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## conor_mc (21 Apr 2006)

Jeanne said:
			
		

> And what do you think of the 'Paddy's' who recently struck oil in Belize (feel free to correct my spelling). Any of you heard about that? Apparently the texans have been drilling for oil in Belize for years and a group of inexperienced Irish speculators struck oil there recently.
> 
> Embarrassing confession now  I queued for about 30 minutes this evening at Tesco petrol station in Sandyford to fill up. Report on the radio said unleaded would be EURO 1.20 tomorrow. Wanted to fill up at 1.10.
> I did actually feel silly though.....


 
Did you leave your engine running while you were queueing...?


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## Jeanne (21 Apr 2006)

conor_mc said:
			
		

> Did you leave your engine running while you were queueing...?


 
No way!


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## whizzbang (26 Apr 2006)

Duplex said:
			
		

> Posters may find this price comparison site useful.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pumps.ie/


cheers for the plug Duplex!  
the more users we get the better it will be!

edit: oops, I forgot I'd already responded to this! pity there is no delete option for posts!


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## dereko1969 (27 Apr 2006)

unfortunately i don't think there is a tipping point anytime soon. a certain petrol station on the quays in dublin when the price hit 120 left it at that level when everywhere else had it back at 110. i couldn't believe people would pay that and yet there were always people filling up there including garda cars!! just noticed yesterday that these beacons of price sensitivity have increased their prices to 129 already!


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## conor_mc (27 Apr 2006)

dereko1969 said:
			
		

> unfortunately i don't think there is a tipping point anytime soon. a certain petrol station on the quays in dublin when the price hit 120 left it at that level when everywhere else had it back at 110. i couldn't believe people would pay that and yet there were always people filling up there including garda cars!! just noticed yesterday that these beacons of price sensitivity have increased their prices to 129 already!


 
They've probably realised that the vast majority of regular car commuters into Dublin have parking spaces provided by their jobs, and that a large percentage of them would be in company cars.

Those company cars probably come with fuel-cards, so their owners couldn't care less what the petrol costs at the pumps.

Not to mention that on a bad day in rush-hour traffic, the next petrol station could be upwards of an hour away (albeit only about 4/5 miles!).


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## bond-007 (29 Apr 2006)

You can bet that the Gardai are not paying 129 a litre. Anyone with a fuel card gets a lower rate than the pumps. Statoil are always the dearest imho. Cavet emptor.


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## thewatcher (29 Apr 2006)

bond-007 said:
			
		

> You can bet that the Gardai are not paying 129 a litre. Anyone with a fuel card gets a lower rate than the pumps. Statoil are always the dearest imho. Cavet emptor.


 
Statoil pulled a fast one a few months ago and changed their fuel card deal.You used to get a set amount off the price of a litre at the pump(say 5c or something).
When the price war on the finglas road broke out,they changed it so that you get a set price every week regardless of what station you go to.
But basically you can buy petrol in many petrol stations now cheaper than the statoil discount rate,which i do !.

And as for the guards,sure the person driving the car couldn't care less what the price of the petrol is because it's not coming out of their pocket, he/she is going to go to the handiest place to buy.


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## bond-007 (29 Apr 2006)

thewatcher said:
			
		

> Statoil pulled a fast one a few months ago and changed their fuel card deal.You used to get a set amount off the price of a litre at the pump(say 5c or something).
> When the price war on the finglas road broke out,they changed it so that you get a set price every week regardless of what station you go to.
> But basically you can buy petrol in many petrol stations now cheaper than the statoil discount rate,which i do !.
> 
> And as for the guards,sure the person driving the car couldn't care less what the price of the petrol is because it's not coming out of their pocket, he/she is going to go to the handiest place to buy.


I have given up using the Benchmark fuel card from Statoil as thewatcher said you can get cheaper petrol elsewhere cheaper than the card does. I only ever use the card if I am short on cash.


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## Meccano (1 May 2006)

Petrol in France is at 1.40 a ltr.


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## Max Hopper (19 May 2006)

Strange the price doesn't fall (June 06 NYMEX crude contract) as fast as it rises.


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## shnaek (19 May 2006)

Max Hopper said:
			
		

> Strange the price doesn't fall (June 06 NYMEX crude contract) as fast as it rises.



I was only wondering the same thing. Prices have been falling since last week and yet some of my locals have put prices up!


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## whizzbang (19 May 2006)

"Charge what the market will bear" pretty much sums it up!


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