# Recent large Electricity (ESB) & Gas (Bord Gais) Bills



## Big Spender (16 Feb 2009)

Last mont I received 2 sizable shocks through the letterbox in the form of my ESB & Gas bills. Both normally run around €90-100 per bill (gas maybe €120 at this time of year) but both bills were over €240 each!

Now I know prices have gone up but this wouldn't explain it. Neither would estimated readings as neither this one nor the previous one were estimated readings.

Like a good citizen I paid both bills trusting that all was in order and that I just needed to start watching our energy usage but then I heard that there is apparent uproar over people's January bills and that errors are suspected.

Has anyone heard anything about billing problems in these 2 businesses? 

Are there other threads on this elsewhere?


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## extopia (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Well, you seem to be referring to a load of people calling Joe Duffy to complain about their bills. Don't think any billing irregularities were uncovered. Probably all boils down to a cold winter?


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## Big Spender (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

That was my thinking on it but my wife has gotten on the Joe Duffy band wagon and like so many others has now become convinced its an error.

In the case of Bord Gais this wouldn't suprise me in the least but never had any problems with the ESB before.


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## gillarosa (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

I could imagine a huge jump in your BG bill considering the period of the charges were probably late November to early February and covered what has been 9 of the coldest weeks we've had in a long time plus Christmas when you were potentially home a lot more during the day if you had the Christmas break off work. But if its double what you would normally be charged for the same period last year it seems excessive. The ESB seems an excessive increase unless you have been running a dryer and have electric heaters on in conjunction with the Gas. Have you checked your meters?  

Our Gas is usually about €90 early winter, €130 mid winter and the estimated bill I received last week was €150. Our ESB bill tends to be about the €50 mark. But no dryer in use or other high energy appliances.


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## Smashbox (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

I agree, I think people are just jumping onto the whole conspiracy therory being led by good old Joe Duffy. They HOPE that their bills are wrong, but chances are they are correct, and owning to the freezing cold spells we've had recently.


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## dockingtrade (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

our bill was about 100 more than usual. Just saw this post now and didnt hear Joe duffy. I never had a bill in the 200s always between 120 - 160. I put it down to a wrong estimation and would be adjusted in next bill. But hearing about all these complaints its strange


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## Silvergirl (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Just got our gas bill today, big shock went from 298 for previous 2 months to 521.00 from 6 Dec to 9th Feb - 66 days - almost E 8 per day. We were away for 10 days over Christmas so thought it wouldn't be too much higher than previous bill!

We have a new house and a condensing gas boiler. Have we it set wrong or did we really use double the gas??

Can't wait to see the ESB bill.....


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## SLS (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Did Bord Gais not increase their unit rate late last year?

I seem to remember them decreasing their standing charge but increasing their unit rate so based on a increased consumption in a really cold winter, I would be expecting anyone with gas fuelled heating for example, would have larger bills in recent months.

Have a look at the CER website to confirm?


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## gipimann (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

The only billing problem I'm aware of with Bord Gais (apart from the size of the bills!) is that they changed their billing system late last year and it appears to have led to a delay in issuing bills.  I got my October/November bill about 4 weeks ago (€188) and the December/January bill yesterday (€291) - haven't rooted out last year's bill to compare usage, but almost €480 for 4 months (as well as gas cylinders and an open fire) hurts!!


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## colm5 (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*



Silvergirl said:


> Just got our gas bill today, big shock went from 298 for previous 2 months to 521.00 from 6 Dec to 9th Feb - 66 days - almost E 8 per day. We were away for 10 days over Christmas so thought it wouldn't be too much higher than previous bill!
> 
> We have a new house and a condensing gas boiler. Have we it set wrong or did we really use double the gas??
> 
> Can't wait to see the ESB bill.....


 
You could have a gas leak!


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## Charlie 07 (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Same problem with us Silvergirl!
Have LPG gas and worked out at E8 per day for 6weeks. Boiler is c2004, have had it services and has seen slight improvement.HAve been running boiler MAX 4hrs in cold weather and 2.5-3 past few days. Not sure if this is usual...just guessing that LPG gas is expensive. At this rate a plug in heater would be cheaper!!


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## Mpsox (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

got the same shock as a lot of people when I opened my bill this month, having said that when I looked at the billing period, it was for 10 days longer then the previous bill (69 days v 59 days),


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## Silvergirl (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Any idea how you'd go about checking the ideal temperatures / settings on a boiler for max efficiency?  It's a Heatline Saragon 305.  Does anyone know of a website with this info?


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## z104 (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Maybe it's time to wear jumpers around the house instead of bermuda shorts and a tee shirt


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## Fnergg (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

The Liveline shows on the ESB were a disgrace. Various individuals phoned in to complain about the size of their bills and the impression given was that they were being ripped off by an unscrupulous utility. There was no challenge to some of the claims made, no probing as to why their bills had been so high. 

There are various reasons whey people  receive unexpectedly high bills. The most common reason is a series of under-estimated meter readings followed by an actual reading. The result can be an accumulated usage spanning several months - years in some cases - and thus a large bill.

Each bill is clearly marked "estimated" if an actual reading has not been obtained. There is an onus on all of us to examine the invoices we receive from whoever supplies us with goods and services. I suspect that most of the callers to Liveline failed to do so as far as their ESB bills are concerned. Had they done so they could easily have advised ESB of their own readings and they would have received corrected bills. 

There can simply be increased usage due to new appliances and family circumstances (e.g. an addition to the family, teenagers taking showers every half hour, etc). Many people will have bought large screen TVs in the recent past without realising that they cost *significantly* more to run than the old style cathode ray sets. The average household is now using much more electricity than 10 years ago.

There can be faulty appliances. A fairly common occurrence in rural areas is a broken water pump for example. There can be wasteful use of electricity: some people use plug-in electric heaters for hours on end, for instance,  when they should only be used very sparingly. Or, they leave the hot-water tank on constantly thus wasting electricity, etc, etc. A visit to the ESB website would quickly show how to use electricity to best effect.

Sometimes too ESB bills can cover more than the normal 60 day period. If the meter reading schedule is impacted by bad weather for example the bill might cover 70+ days and in winter that can have a significant impact on the size of the bill. Look at your bill: it spells out the number of days usage billed. 

Remember also that this has been the coldest winter in years and most people will have used more electricity. Factor in as well that prices increased by 17% from the 1st August last.

What I found sinister about the Liveline shows (they concentrated on ESB for two days running) is that they coincided with Bord Gais' launch of their electricity offering. The ridiculing of ESB, the total lack of any attempt at balance must have been a dream come true for Bord Gais. Was this mere coincidence or a cleverly manipulated event by Bord Gais or its agents? Make up your own mind but I have no doubt whatsoever.

Finally, while we may all whinge about the cost of electricity, remember that according to the Central Statistics Office the average household spends less than 5% of its total weekly expenditure on electricity. We spend more, on average, on drink and cigarettes per week than we do on electricity usage. The average bill works out at around €3 per day over the year. Not bad value when you consider what it provides.   

Regards,

Fnergg


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## mell61 (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Can anyone tell me if there are agreed customer service levels for the issue of bils?   
Like the instance above, my Oct-Dec gas bill only arrived end Jan (due to BG changing their billing system), and followed last week with the Dec-Feb bill.   So I'm in a position of paying the 2 highest bills of the year in the one calendar month (2nd and 18th Feb) almost €600 in total.
While I'm not disputing the charges, I'm really not happy that due to their feck up, I'm being hit in one calendar month for both bills.

Watching the BBC watchdog program recently they did mention that in the UK there are agreed service levels, and if these are not acchieved customers could expect a refund.     Some how I doubt that our wonderful suppliers have anything in place to support their customers, but its worth asking.


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## gipimann (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

The Bord Gais Code of Practice "Paying your Bord Gais Energy Supply bill" starts off with a list of "our promises" (i.e. the company's).

One of the promises is...

_We will issue clear and timely bills to all our Customers_

It also says in relation to Bill Frequency...

_All domestic Customers are billed bi-monthly_
_Non domestic Customers on the Standard Industrial and __Commercial Bi-Monthly tariff are billed bi-monthly_
_All other non domestic Customers are billed monthly_
_Customers will not receive bills outside of the regular billing __cycle unless there is a dispute and/or there has been a series __of estimates and a corrected bill is required_​

You can find the full code of practice [broken link removed]


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## Slater (18 Feb 2009)

Hope that nobody thinks that I am a bit of a scrooge. Last July I decided to monitor my ESB and Bord Gais bills, checking both metres almost on a daily basis. Absolutely no complaints re. readings however I did make decent savings by switching off lights and P.C when not needed. Same with gas, I was surprised there too with the savings.

Listened to the Joe Duffy, did not hear him ask any contributor for meter readings, did anyone else hear him?

Since November because of the cold winter the gas meter readings have been the same as last year, even had to light fires some nights. My point being that the cold winter has driven these bills.

Good to see that Bord Gais is to enter the electricity market. Average ESB worker @ 72,000 and power station operatives @ 100,000 per year - I believe.


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## tina4 (18 Feb 2009)

Hi my last 2 esb bills have me baffled. October bill was 289, thats was a little high considering dh was home alone and in work most days and no heating or cooking!!!!!!. December went up to 550. feb bill 800e. My bills up to now were normaly between 250 and 400. 400 being xmas bill (always dearest) so it has doubled compared to last xmas. There is no aparent reason. I have compared my bill with 3 neighbours, and i seem to be using alot more units than them. Now were i can see that id use more day units the night units are double theres. we all have the same heating (storage) and are on night saver. I put my dishwasher and washing machine on at night but that it. How could i use 4000 units in the nightime? I rang them in december and the girl told me to check the reading cause it might be a diget out but it was right. We live in an apartment block but mine is a house and the metor is in the appartments. I have no gas all electic.


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## eggerb (18 Feb 2009)

Slater said:


> Hope that nobody thinks that I am a bit of a scrooge. Last July I decided to monitor my ESB and Bord Gais bills, checking both metres almost on a daily basis....


 
Don't think anybody could be considered a scrooge for monitoring what energy they are using! You should look into one of these for monitoring electricity usage. I invested in one recently on e-bay and I am very happy with it. It allows monitoring of unit usage (in kwH), cost (in €) and approx carbon emission equivalent. There are reviews on various websites.


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## Fnergg (18 Feb 2009)

tina4 said:


> Hi my last 2 esb bills have me baffled. October bill was 289, thats was a little high considering dh was home alone and in work most days and no heating or cooking!!!!!!. December went up to 550. feb bill 800e. My bills up to now were normaly between 250 and 400. 400 being xmas bill (always dearest) so it has doubled compared to last xmas. There is no aparent reason. I have compared my bill with 3 neighbours, and i seem to be using alot more units than them. Now were i can see that id use more day units the night units are double theres. we all have the same heating (storage) and are on night saver. I put my dishwasher and washing machine on at night but that it. How could i use 4000 units in the nightime? I rang them in december and the girl told me to check the reading cause it might be a diget out but it was right. We live in an apartment block but mine is a house and the metor is in the appartments. I have no gas all electic.



Comparing monetary values is of little use although quite understandable. You need to look at your usage pattern - the number of units billed each period. Have any of them been estimated? Are you able to access the meter and take regular meter readings? Can you tabulate, period for period, over the last two years what the readings and consumptions were and which if any were estimated?  

Neither is there much to gain by checking your neighbours' bills. People with identical appliances can use electricity in very different ways depending on their family circumstances and readiness to economise.   

My advice is to take daily readings for a week or so. These will tell you what you are using and you should, hopefully, be able to reduce your usage based on that knowledge.

Check out the ESB website (www.esb.ie) where there is a lot of very useful information on how to use electricity wisely.


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## tina4 (19 Feb 2009)

Thanks for that, i just registered on esb website and had a look at the 18months, and the only ones that are significantly different is my december and feb bills. I dont have a key to the appartments or the metor box. i asked esb for a key for box and they said no the managment co should have 1 but they dont. And i supose i could ask some if i could make a copy of appartment key. 
I was only really comparing the night because the heating system is the same and are set by esb, we all have water heating at 3-7in morning. Now i know there would be different things we each would use but surly it couldnt differ by 2000 units. Im going to try do a metor check when i can get my electrician friend down, its a bit of hassel cause i need some1 in appartment block and some1 switching appliances back on. No bills have ever been estimated. Thanks for the reply.


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## sallyann (19 Feb 2009)

Frengg, is it possible to the ESB to "fix" meters at their end, if you get my drift....?


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## armelodie (19 Feb 2009)

Have you read your metre?


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

sallyann said:


> Frengg, is it possible to the ESB to "fix" meters at their end, if you get my drift....?


 

No, there is absolutely nothing untoward being done to ESB meters. The meter is a highly reliable and accurate recording instrument and if it records a large number of units in a particular period then it is up to the cusotmer to figure out what he/she was using to account for that usage. Forget about anything being wrong with the meter. 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## sfag (23 Feb 2009)

Have to say my electricity bill took also a big jump -  much bigger than the 20% rise they gave themselves. And I was more frugal this Christmas. No apparent logical reason for it.


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## Fnergg (23 Feb 2009)

sfag said:


> Have to say my electricity bill took also a big jump -  much bigger than the 20% rise they gave themselves. And I was more frugal this Christmas. No apparent logical reason for it.



There is of course always a logical reason for it - the trick is identifying it.

Are you comparing like with like? Check your usage for the same period last year - how many units did you use this year in comparison to last year? I would wager a lot more given that the increase was much bigger than 20% (the price increase effective from 1st August was 17.5% on average and like all price changes it was approved by the Regulator).

How many days were covered in the recent bill as opposed to the same billing period last year? Some winter bills can cover 70 odd days as opposed to the usual 60-64 days. A week's plus usage in winter can make a big difference.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## RSMike (24 Feb 2009)

tina4 said:


> Thanks for that, i just registered on esb website and had a look at the 18months, and the only ones that are significantly different is my december and feb bills. .



Tina, beware of registering on the ESB site, did you know that once you do this they automatically stop sending you paper bills in the post?, I discoverd this recently, and don't get me wrong, I am not against e-billing, its just annoying the sneaky way the ESB are doing it, i.e they don't even tell you up front you will not get a paper bill anymore, especially when other providers offer an incentive (discount) to those who opt for e-billing.

For me it was the straw that "broke the camels back", I switched to Airtricity last week.

Btw, I don't beleive the ESB is fixing anyones meters, the reality is prices have skyrocketed in the last 6 months + we have had a very cold winter, and despite the fact that the ESB might have been kind to people over the years, the reality now is that our Electricity is the dearest in Europe.
Main reason over-reliance on fossil fuels and high taxes, some details can be found here:
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015242.shtml

In our financial sector we have had under regulation, while in the Energy sector we are now over-regulated, The regulator is responsible for fixing our energy prices based on Oil/Gas wholesale rates of six months ago and now due to the bureaucracy required to re-fix prices, the energy prices will drop in April, hah!, just when we will all be switching off our gas/oil heating and extra electric heaters, nice one , :-|

Now that there are at least three service providers in residential, there is a lot to be said for full de-regulation ?


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## Fnergg (24 Feb 2009)

RSMike said:


> Tina, beware of registering on the ESB site, did you know that once you do this they automatically stop sending you paper bills in the post?, I discoverd this recently, and don't get me wrong, I am not against e-billing, its just annoying the sneaky way the ESB are doing it, i.e they don't even tell you up front you will not get a paper bill anymore, especially when other providers offer an incentive (discount) to those who opt for e-billing.
> 
> For me it was the straw that "broke the camels back", I switched to Airtricity last week......
> 
> ...




Re ESB's ebilling: I just checked their website and far from being sneaky they are upfront about the paper bills:                            


No more paper bills
24 hour access to your account
Track your bill & usage history
Surely, from an environmental perspective it makes sense to discontinue them for ebilling customers? You can always print off a copy of one if required. Airtricty's ebilling service also means you only receive your bill online and given their green credentials it makes sense for them not to send paper bills as well.  

Full de-regulation will not occur until the competition in the domestic sector is seen to be working i.e. when ESB's market share of the retail market falls below 50%. How long this will take is anyone's guess. I'd say about 4 years at least.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## RSMike (24 Feb 2009)

Apologies, this was an empty post, not sure how to remove it


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## RSMike (24 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> Re ESB's ebilling: I just checked their website and far from being sneaky they are upfront about the paper bills:
> 
> 
> No more paper bills
> ...



Ok, I stand corrected, I can't prove it but I am not sure they were upfront advertising the no paper bills bit,when I signed up to view my account online in December.




Fnergg said:


> Surely, from an environmental perspective it makes sense to discontinue them for ebilling customers? You can always print off a copy of one if required. Airtricty's ebilling service also means you only receive your bill online and given their green credentials it makes sense for them not to send paper bills as well.  Fnergg



Absolutely I fully agree, what I like about Airtricity is they reward and encourage customers for going to e-billing, its obviously also saving them money, so why can't ESB do the same?



Fnergg said:


> Full de-regulation will not occur until the competition in the domestic sector is seen to be working i.e. when ESB's market share of the retail market falls below 50%. How long this will take is anyone's guess. I'd say about 4 years at least.Fnergg



Not sure I agree that the state should try to control it and wait that long, don' t think they took that approach with Eircom, IMO the extra bureaucracy is realling killing us now with huge energy costs, when we least need them.


Regards,

Fnergg[/quote]


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## Luckycharm (24 Feb 2009)

Interesting my ESB bill went up over €100 as well and was surprised - I put it down to a broken Fridge so will be interested to see how much my next bill is as I have replaced the fridge.


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## tina4 (24 Feb 2009)

Thanks for that i did notice that there would be no more paper bills. But i had to register as it was the only way i could veiw previous bill, but i thought it would be like a full bill and that i would be able to see the units but its just the amount the bill was. I asume i will get an email to tell me when my esb bill is available. Like eircom do, but i still get paper bill from them aswell. 
I am going to change over but need to try to get to the bottom of the sudden increase, im still waiting on our electrican to come back down. 

Regarding changing to board gas. A friend said she heard on the radio about changing over and that if you use allot of units in the day that you would be better sticking to esb. i will have to look into it before i change. God we are going around with our coats on cause i  turned off the heating because thats all thats used at night and even though its on the night saver my night is dearer than the day. The odd time i will have the dishwasher and washing machine on after 11 but thats it. So im woolie jumpers and heavy jackets all round in this house!!!!!!!!


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## brazen_dude (24 Feb 2009)

Tina, Customers can always revert back to paper bills by canceling online account. ESB online account provides soft copies of old bills back to 18months... So save all soft copy bills and cancel the online access.

From Terms & Conditions:
*10. How to cancel your account online*

  If you would like to deregister from our online account service then simply email eservice@esb.ie at any time quoting your account number, name and address. Please give us 10 days notice, from which date we will cease sending you bill notification emails and presenting your bills online and will revert back to sending you paper bills by post.


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## tina4 (24 Feb 2009)

Ah great thanks for the info. Its a pity that they dont do both the way eircom do. Thanks again


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## Fnergg (25 Feb 2009)

tina4 said:


> ....But i had to register as it was the only way i could veiw previous bill, but i thought it would be like a full bill and that i would be able to see the units but its just the amount the bill was.....
> 
> Regarding changing to board gas. A friend said she heard on the radio about changing over and that if you use allot of units in the day that you would be better sticking to esb. i will have to look into it before i change..... /quote]
> 
> ...


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## tina4 (26 Feb 2009)

Thank Fnergg for the info. I will check out the esb website now. And as for my friend she must have took it up wrong. Thanks again.


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## olddog (27 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*



Charlie 07 said:


> ...just guessing that LPG gas is expensive. At this rate a plug in heater would be cheaper!!



That is about the position. See previous thread on LPG :

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=92393&highlight=flogas


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## Charlie 07 (27 Feb 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*

Going to have to source some alternate for next winter. Looking at solar to help run the UFH, so we won't be totally dependant on LPG. Neighbours was at 35 deg last week. Not bad for february?


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## scampfriend (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*



Silvergirl said:


> Just got our gas bill today, big shock went from 298 for previous 2 months to 521.00 from 6 Dec to 9th Feb - 66 days - almost E 8 per day. We were away for 10 days over Christmas so thought it wouldn't be too much higher than previous bill!





Silvergirl said:


> We have a new house and a condensing gas boiler. Have we it set wrong or did we really use double the gas??
> 
> Can't wait to see the ESB bill.....


 


Got a gas bill today for over e650,this is for a four bedroom house not a hotel.Boiler is a heat line, only a few months old ,maybe i have the settings wrong?   Any advice|||


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## Billo (4 Mar 2009)

Good news. My ESB bill for Jan-Feb is down, even allowing for the fact that it is only for 55 days rather than the usual 60/61 days. I expected it to be down as the electric shower is being used less now than previously.


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## corkgal (4 Mar 2009)

Check that they have credited your last payment. Its easy to end up with a double bill if you are a little late paying, or post is slow etc.


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## corkgal (4 Mar 2009)

One more thing about efficiency for boilers. Our Gas service includes an efficiency report. 9 year old boiler = 89% but its been serviced every year.

This gives a really good overview of costs of various fuels.
[broken link removed]

See page 2


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## Kine (5 Mar 2009)

OK,

A little late seeking out a post liek this but figured I'd better ask.

My last ESB bill (I think covereing Jan/Feb was the biggest on eI have received by a long way. Now, I'm pretty damned anal in my 2 bed apartment about keeping all lights off etc, and as usually spend most of my time in my living area, the only real things on are three lamps, TV and SKY box when I'm at home. Due to sporting committments, I don't get home until 9pm 2-3 days a week, so to be honest, apartment isn't occupied a lot.

However, on asking my mother (who has a 4 bed semi-d with 5 people versus me and my partner in my apartment) our bills were the same. How, in the name of my bank account, is this possible? The *only* thing I can think of is the emersion, as I don't have an electric shower and this usually gets maybe an hour or two a day (at the very most). Do emersions really use up that much extra electricity? As I said, I was gob-smacked that my bill could be as high as a house with three times the people in in, usually occupying 3-4 rooms, several TVs etc. 

My last bill was exact reading to exact reading, so there were no estimates involved.

Anyone have any ideas on the emersion?


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## Fnergg (5 Mar 2009)

Kine said:


> My last ESB bill (I think covereing Jan/Feb was the biggest on eI have received by a long way. Now, I'm pretty damned anal in my 2 bed apartment about keeping all lights off etc, and as usually spend most of my time in my living area, the only real things on are three lamps, TV and SKY box when I'm at home. Due to sporting committments, I don't get home until 9pm 2-3 days a week, so to be honest, apartment isn't occupied a lot.
> 
> However, on asking my mother (who has a 4 bed semi-d with 5 people versus me and my partner in my apartment) our bills were the same. How, in the name of my bank account, is this possible? The *only* thing I can think of is the emersion, as I don't have an electric shower and this usually gets maybe an hour or two a day (at the very most). Do emersions really use up that much extra electricity? As I said, I was gob-smacked that my bill could be as high as a house with three times the people in in, usually occupying 3-4 rooms, several TVs etc.
> 
> ...



Be very careful when using the Immersion. There is an urban myth out there that suggests it's just as cheap to leave it on all the time. Rubbish!

My advice is (a) make sure it's fitted with a lagging jacket if it doesn't already have a heat retaining covering (all new ones do) and (b) switch it on for no more than a half hour before you require hot water and make sure it's switched off afterwards. A timer is ideal for this. However, it seems you are already very careful with its usage (but if it doesn't have a timer maybe there have been times when it was left switched on all day).

The type of TV you have could make a big difference. For example, a traditional 21" CRT screen TV running for 40 hours a week will cost about €4 per two-months. A 42" plasma on the other hand will cost €23 for the same period. 

If you have any plug-in heaters my advice is to throw them out or else use them only to heat up a room for 30 mins or so and then switch them off. They are very heavy users of electricity.

Other than that, the only other appliances I would keep a close eye are the washing machine (use only for a full load), the tumbler dryer (ditto), and make sure all appliances with standby mode are fully switched off at the mains after use.

You mention your last bill was based on an actual reading. Are you certain about the previous one? If that was estimated then the units you actually used during the previous billing period but which were not charged for because of the under-estimate are now being charged on your present bill.

Look at the number of days you have been billed. Some winter bills cover more than the usual 60 odd days and could be 70 days or more. That can make a huge difference at this time of year.

If you are still mystified try switching off all appliances and look at the meter. The revolving dial should come to a stop after a couple of minutes. If it doesn't it means there is still something causing it to revolve and if you can't isolate it call in an electrician and have him check your installation. You might have a wiring fault.

If it does stop as expected then take a meter reading every day around the same time for a week or so. That will give you your daily usage and knowing which appliances are in use you should be able to pinpoint the heavy users and hopefully be able to make economies.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Kine (5 Mar 2009)

Fnergg said:


> Be very careful when using the Immersion. There is an urban myth out there that suggests it's just as cheap to leave it on all the time. Rubbish!
> 
> My advice is (a) make sure it's fitted with a lagging jacket if it doesn't already have a heat retaining covering (all new ones do) and (b) switch it on for no more than a half hour before you require hot water and make sure it's switched off afterwards. A timer is ideal for this. However, it seems you are already very careful with its usage (but if it doesn't have a timer maybe there have been times when it was left switched on all day).
> 
> ...


 

Thanks, all sound advice which I try to implement as much as I can. Imersion, yes, sometimes gets forgotten, a timer could be ideal. However, I have another query here. My central heating panel has a "hot water" setting which can be used to heat the water as well. Could this be a cheaper alternative (does it use gas to heat it?!) or is it the same as just clicking the imersion?

Checked last bill, was an accurate one, however, as you mentioned, my expensive bill was for 77 days....so that does account for some of the increase.


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## Fnergg (5 Mar 2009)

Kine said:


> Thanks, all sound advice which I try to implement as much as I can. Imersion, yes, sometimes gets forgotten, a timer could be ideal. However, I have another query here. My central heating panel has a "hot water" setting which can be used to heat the water as well. Could this be a cheaper alternative (does it use gas to heat it?!) or is it the same as just clicking the imersion?
> 
> Checked last bill, was an accurate one, however, as you mentioned, my expensive bill was for 77 days....so that does account for some of the increase.



Yeah, the 77 days is a major contributory factor to the high bill. I'd be wary of any method of heating water and I'd keep the time factor involved to the absolute minimum necessary be it electricity or gas. I take it your heating is gas so, yes, gas is what would be used to heat the water.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## dewdrop (6 Mar 2009)

I feel it is estimated readings which often give rise to large bills. Would it be an idea if esb and bord gais did the estimated readings at a time when usage is low which show lessen possibility of a large bill after a meter reading


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## Kine (6 Mar 2009)

To get a timer fitted to the imersion, do I call a professional, or is it something that can be done yourself?

What sort of ocsts are involved?


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## Fnergg (6 Mar 2009)

Kine said:


> To get a timer fitted to the imersion, do I call a professional, or is it something that can be done yourself?
> 
> What sort of ocsts are involved?


 
Get a professional to do it unless you are very adept at electricity. Ring a few electricians and get quotes - I'd imagine you'd get it done for less than €100.  

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Fnergg (6 Mar 2009)

dewdrop said:


> I feel it is estimated readings which often give rise to large bills. Would it be an idea if esb and bord gais did the estimated readings at a time when usage is low which show lessen possibility of a large bill after a meter reading


 
Correct. Underestimated readings are probably the biggest cause of high bills (when the next actual reading is obtained the effect is an accumulated usage covering more than the usual two months). 

Yes, ideally estimated readings would be done only in summer and all winter bills would be actual. However, there are practical, logistical reasons why neither Bord Gais or ESB can do that. The best advice to customers is to examine every bill and if it is estimated check the meter reading to see what the real reading is. If it's out by, say, 100 units either way contact your supplier and ask for an amended bill. If you don't have a key to your outside meter cabinet you can buy one at many hardware stores or ESB/BGE will send you out a free one.


Regards,

Fnergg


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## corkgal (7 Mar 2009)

Heating your water with Gas should be a lot cheaper, especially if you don't have night saver or have the immersion on at peak times.


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## galwaytt (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*



Fnergg said:


> The Liveline shows on the ESB were a disgrace. Various individuals phoned in to complain about the size of their bills and the impression given was that they were being ripped off by an unscrupulous utility. There was no challenge to some of the claims made, no probing as to why their bills had been so high. .
> 
> Many people will have bought large screen TVs in the recent past without realising that they cost *significantly* more to run than the old style cathode ray sets. The average household is now using much more electricity than 10 years ago.
> 
> Was this mere coincidence or a cleverly manipulated event by Bord Gais or its agents? Make up your own mind but I have no doubt whatsoever.


 
Well I think we're entitled to the 'unscrupulous utility' viewpoint for several reasons:  

the astronomicial ESB salaries (on average over 72k p.a. reported recently, and voer 100k p.a. in one of the generating stations)
the continued obstructionism, by the ESB, of things such as commercial, micro generation, and until recently, wind
I'm not sure your statement vis-a-vis TV's is correct (but I will check it).  This is the sort of stuff we saw advertised with regard to the Power of One, and turning off all those red LED appliances.  I monitored my broadband router - which is on 24/7 btw - and it has consumed a mere 0.05 inside the last month.


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## Fnergg (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill*



galwaytt said:


> Well I think we're entitled to the 'unscrupulous utility' viewpoint for several reasons:
> 
> the astronomicial ESB salaries (on average over 72k p.a. reported recently, and voer 100k p.a. in one of the generating stations)
> the continued obstructionism, by the ESB, of things such as commercial, micro generation, and until recently, wind
> I'm not sure your statement vis-a-vis TV's is correct (but I will check it).  This is the sort of stuff we saw advertised with regard to the Power of One, and turning off all those red LED appliances.  I monitored my broadband router - which is on 24/7 btw - and it has consumed a mere 0.05 inside the last month.



The astronomical ESB salaries story has led many people to think that everyone in the ESB is on €72k or more. I know on the other hand that the typical pay rate of an ESB Customer Supply call centre employee- the person who answers the phone when you have a query - is about €14 per hour and the vast majority of other clerical staff in that company are not paid that much more.

Many of the public seem to think that average equals typical and of course it doesn't. If, for instance, I work for a company of two and I'm paid €20k and my boss is paid €200k our average pay is €110k. 

There are indeed very highly paid and highly skilled people in the ESB. Some Network Technicians, for instance, are getting generous annual payments but then they are, for example, on call to deal with supply outages at all hours of the day and night and in all weathers. Getting a call at home on 9pm on a winter's night to travel maybe 30 miles to fix a fault that might take several hours in isolated terrain comes with a price and I for one don't begrudge it if it gets my electricity back in a reasonable time.

A large company like ESB with a presence across the globe requires a lot of highly skilled IT staff, financial experts, professional engineers and the like and they don't come cheap anywhere. If you pay peanuts.....     

Power station workers are probably the highest paid on average and, yes, that comes in large part from the muscle they were able to wield in past years: if they didn't get their way the lights went out. However, their numbers are diminishing what with the reduction of market share of the generation market by ESB (currently only 38%) and the sale of many power stations. The last time the lights went out due to power station worker strike action was in the 1970s.   

Remember also that these average salary figures factor in things like pension entitlements over time so that they do not represent the real working salaries on a weekly or monthly basis.

I would wager that if an exercise was done to get the average salary of, say, Bord Gais or bank employees the result might not be that much different.

And despite all that the Regulator has confirmed that salary costs account for only a miniscule portion of the cost of electricity - the major factor is the cost of fossil fuels for generation and we in Ireland are hugely dependent on imported fuels the cost of which has risen dramatically over the last 10 years. 

ESB has within the last couple of weeks launched a very attractive microgeneration support payment system whereby customers will be paid 19c per unit for anything exported into the grid. (This will always only be of benefit to a tiny number of wealthy customers who have the means to purchase sufficient generating systems to supply their own homes and have capacity to feed into the grid). The ESB has also been fully in support of wind generation for several years and has it's own wind power subsidiary Hibernian Wind Power and has several wind power sites around the country.

Believe the difference in power consumption of plasma TVs as against the old CRT sets. A huge difference. A broadband router my contrast is very small usage wise. As a matter of interest why do you have it on 24/7? I always switch off mine after I finish an internet session - I would be fearful of hackers and the like to leave it on all the time. 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## europhile (14 Mar 2009)

I also received that I considered to be a high gas bill but as I've just moved into a new house, I've nothing to compare it with.

I seem to be charged on Band A.  Will the unite price get cheaper when I use over a certain amount?

Am I better off using gas for water heating rather than the immersion heater?

I've never had gas before and know nothing about it.  Any tips welcome.


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## cleverclogs7 (14 Mar 2009)

I havent noticed much of a bill change.mine came in the door a few days ago 112e


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## Kev S (8 Jan 2010)

We received a gas bill yesterday for November and December of €296. We were shocked. It is just myself and my girlfriend living in a four bedroom house. We'd turn on the gas an average of about 3-4 hours a day. Does this bill sound reasonable? 

One other factor might be that we only moved in last September and we got an estimate bill for the first month of €40. Maybe this might explain some of it but it still seems very high.


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## Leo (8 Jan 2010)

What was the meter reading when you moved in? Was the usage on the estimated bill close to reality?
Leo


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## galwaytt (8 Jan 2010)

...don't forget, ...it is -6 to -10 outside, and even with 3-4 hours of use 'as normal', it's going to take a lot more energy to keep the house warm.


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## pbyrne (8 Jan 2010)

Kev S,

A quick test for you to for that I found useful (and obvious) - take a meter reading of the gas, then run on for an hour, then take another meter reading. The difference will tell you how many units you consume in an hour.

Have a look here then to calculate the cost for the hour (take your number of units * 11.3911 to give the kWh):
[broken link removed]
and
[broken link removed]

I did mine recently and figured out it was roughly €1 per hour to turn on the heating, based on that if you had it on for say 4 hours per day for 2 months you would not be far off the €296.


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## Kev S (8 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the responses. I have the meter reading from when I moved in at home - I must check it out. I would say the first months bill we got was lower than reality by maybe €50 or so. 

Thanks for the calculation pbyrne, i was actually going to ask what would be the average cost of putting on the gas per hour. I will take that reading this weekend.

Also, our boiler is over 10 years old and is very noisy. We had to get a plumber in to fix it a couple of months ago and he said that its useful life is almost up. Would this affect gas usage, ie would the fact that the boiler isn't great mean that more gas is being used to heat the house?


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