# Real women vs media/model/mag. ideal



## Caveat (18 Aug 2008)

Glad to see that _Truthseeker_ thought Cheryl Cole was too skinny on the X-factor thread. 

Personally, I like real women, e.g. size 14 to 20, no enhancement surgery etc.A wonky tooth or something can sometimes add to the appeal. 

Women are supposed to have 'a bit of a belly' - it's the way they are made and should be something to be proud of.  Even if their 'bit of a belly' turns into 'a bit too much of a belly' so what?

I know I'm not alone in finding slightly overweight much more attractive than hipbone protruding, sunken faced skinny.


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## truthseeker (18 Aug 2008)

Caveat - perhaps we should run away together 

Seriously though, I see these skinny celebrities and wonder how they are actually managing to get through a day. How are they not fainting on their feet? 

I personally think a real woman should have a bit of squidge. 

I admire the ladies on Gladiators, athlethic, muscular - that would be a better body type for a young woman to aspire to rather than the lollipop headed Cherl Cole body type. Some of the Gladiator ladies are slim alright but not unhealthy looking.


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## Betsy Og (18 Aug 2008)

I suppose its how you define overweight. 

In my courting days I used to go for taller women (ideally ... before desparation set in !! ) who, I suppose, would tend to be a bit more slender but I definitely agree with you that this stick insect trend is downright awful. More rather than less.

On a radio show a guy rang in to say "fellas wants women with something to grab a hold of" and he wasnt wrong. T & A are attractive, not bony protruding angles. Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz, Kate Beckinsale - my style of women.


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## DavyJones (18 Aug 2008)

I heard a great saying years ago and lived by it. 

If you can't lift it, don't shift it.


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## Cahir (18 Aug 2008)

It's a little insulting to suggest that non-overweight women aren't real.  I'm a healthy size 8-10 and I definitely do not look like a stick insect.  Size 14 might be healthy for someone who's 6ft tall but at 5'3" I'd look obese.


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## Ash 22 (18 Aug 2008)

Ye remind me of farmers discussing the weight of their cattle before sending them to the mart. I presume ye're God's gift to women!

Agree with you Cahir I'm on the light but healthy side also.


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## truthseeker (18 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> It's a little insulting to suggest that non-overweight women aren't real. I'm a healthy size 8-10 and I definitely do not look like a stick insect. Size 14 might be healthy for someone who's 6ft tall but at 5'3" I'd look obese.


 
Im 5'2'' also and a size 12 (or thereabouts) - I have in the past been a size 16 but never looked obese.


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## Thrifty (18 Aug 2008)

Remember reading an article last year. It was written by a man for a womans magazine. He explained that when he was younger and first started dating he thought the women he dated were beautiful - he didn't expect them to be perfect - thought the curve of a woman tummy beautiful and natural. He went on to say that the women he dated ruined it for him. It was almost like they were constantly pointing out their imperfections (as they saw them), making him aware of them, worried that he would notice or comment on them. They made him by this insecurity look at their bodies in a different way and notice the wobbly bits. He pointed out that in general men don't run themselves down in the same way - in fact more likely to see perfection? His article was a real eyeopener. I think the important thing is to feel comfortable in your body, notice the good things and stop worrying about and apologising for the bits that you consider not perfect but most important to be or act at least confident about your own body.


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## Caveat (18 Aug 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> I presume ye're God's gift to women!


 
Nope. But are you telling me that women don't have thoughts about their preferences for the male form?

I'm not suggesting that non-overweight women aren't real - just that it's alright to be size 16, 18...whatever.  Aside from the naturally smaller framed women though, you have to admit that there are plenty of women who think they are not normal if they have full hips/thighs/any suggestion of a belly etc. 

But of course Ash 22 & Cahir have a point re proportion/health etc.


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## Betsy Og (18 Aug 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> I presume ye're God's gift to women!


 

You seem to think we're being harsh whereas the contrary is the case. 

Womens major problem comes from other women. Did you ever hear a fella make a *****y comment about the size of another fella's This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language?, in particular a mate of his? Defo not. Women editors of all these mags, and I laugh at the hipocracy of them, one week its decrying the death of some waif from anorexia, but next week its full steam ahead pointing out the minor belly on some "celeb", circling the cellulite on another and the wrinkles of a third. And its not done in a "they're human like the rest of us" kind of way its more "the shame of that". Which must leave your average reader squirming at the thought of themselves being assessed like that.


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## redstar (18 Aug 2008)

Women do tend to analyse/agonise a lot about how they look. But this programme has really taken such analysis to extremes...  

WARNING!! Subject Matter May Offend  (but thats Ch4 for you  )

[broken link removed]


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## truthseeker (18 Aug 2008)

redstar said:


> [broken link removed]


 
Watched a bit of that last night - scary stuff, had to turn it off, himself was going green.


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## Teabag (18 Aug 2008)

Kelly Brooke. She is the perfect woman in my eyes (and dreams).


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## Ash 22 (18 Aug 2008)

I have to agree that women are more conscious about their looks ok and do have preferences for the opposite sex but I guess it comes across a bit different when you actully see it in written form rather than actually just talking about it in conversation.


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## MrMan (18 Aug 2008)

Teabag said:


> Kelly Brooke. She is the perfect woman in my eyes (and dreams).



Used to think she was a stunner but then I heard her talk and she ruined it.


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## MandaC (18 Aug 2008)

Women are never happy with their weight.  I am 5.7 and have always been size 12.  Recently have moved towards 14-16 and have to say its time to get back in shape, not for anybody else, but for me.


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## MandaC (18 Aug 2008)

Women are never happy with their weight.  I am 5.7 and have always been size 12.  Recently have moved towards 14-16 and have to say I can really feel the difference.  Its' time to get back in shape, not for anybody else, but for me.  They say 10lbs is a dress size, so need to go down 2 dress sizes, thats 20lbs plus, in reality I need to lose anything from 18lbs to 2 stone.  Nobody has commented on it, but I really know it myself.

I dont agree with having to be a stick insect, but you know yourself when you have pushed things too far!


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## Dave Vanian (19 Aug 2008)

Thrifty said:


> Remember reading an article last year. It was written by a man for a womans magazine. He explained that when he was younger and first started dating he thought the women he dated were beautiful - he didn't expect them to be perfect - thought the curve of a woman tummy beautiful and natural. He went on to say that the women he dated ruined it for him. It was almost like they were constantly pointing out their imperfections (as they saw them), making him aware of them, worried that he would notice or comment on them. They made him by this insecurity look at their bodies in a different way and notice the wobbly bits. He pointed out that in general men don't run themselves down in the same way - in fact more likely to see perfection? His article was a real eyeopener. I think the important thing is to feel comfortable in your body, notice the good things and stop worrying about and apologising for the bits that you consider not perfect but most important to be or act at least confident about your own body.


 
This is so true.  Mrs. V. is very conscious of her weight.  I love her curves.  Always have.  Always tell her so.  I'd reckon she's about average weight for her height, give or take a few pounds.  But if you're constantly listening to herself pointing out how and why and where she needs to lose weight and being self-critical in front of the mirror, you'd nearly start believing it.  It's the attitude that's unattractive, not the body.


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

Yes, well said. Women are their own worst enemies ........ after the mirror. Why oh why do they buy these rubbish mags? I must say that in my youth I thought that these shallow coat horses were deadly attractive. But sure that was only the hormones clouding my judgement. Give me a cuddly lady, who is relatively happy with her size anyday ......... if she exists.


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## Ash 22 (19 Aug 2008)

I find a lot of women cannot take a compliment. Lets say somebody admired something they were wearing, they themselves will more than likely react with a negative reply like "oh! I dunno " or "that old thing" Its funny because unless we kind of like something we won't wear it. I possibly did that in the past too but now I say back "yes, I like this dress actually " or whatever.


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> I find a lot of women cannot take a compliment. Lets say somebody admired something they were wearing, they themselves will more than likely react with a negative reply like "oh! I dunno " or "that old thing" Its funny because unless we kind of like something we won't wear it. I possibly did that in the past too but now I say back "yes, I like this dress actually " or whatever.


 
The favourite one among my friends is 'this dress??? oh i got it as a bargain, only 10 euro, down from 50 euro in whatever shop'.

Very true Ash22 - that is a very common attitude among women.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

Contrast with men complimenting other men's clothes (which admittedly doesn't happen that often) and the response is usually a nonchalant "yeah - nice isn't it?"

It's true, I've noticed this with women a lot, but I'm glad to say in recent years Ms Caveat has adopted the approach of Ash22 as well.


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## Teabag (19 Aug 2008)

MrMan said:


> Used to think she was a stunner but then I heard her talk and she ruined it.



In my dreams, Kelly doesn't talk so much


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

Does she moan?


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## Betsy Og (19 Aug 2008)

Simeon said:


> Does she moan?


 
yeah, about the traffic, the state of the flat, how I didnt have anything ready for her to eat and how she's still waiting for me to check the oil in her car beacuse the warnign light is blinking every so often


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## dem_syhp (19 Aug 2008)

I agree that us women are terrible at accepting compliments.  However, as a generalisation the Irish are poor at accepting compliments and are only improving in recent years.  Secondly, women will not always give a compliment and mean it. 

With respect to our size, well I'd like to be lighter.  But I measure this based on my BMI.  I'm a size 14/16 - but I can comfortably cycle 20 miles or run about 3 miles without too much pain.  My objective is to have my weight in a healthy range, stay fit, and enjoy life - which means not obsessing on the fact that something is sagging, slipping, falling, going gray or slightly wrinkly - that's just life!

By the way - I think men, our new metrosexual men that is, are taking on a lot of the female (not necessarily positive attributes) traits.  However, these tend to be the same men that are looking for the plastic females, so let them go find each other is my view - but I'm probably bitter and twisted


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## fobs (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Glad to see that _Truthseeker_ thought Cheryl Cole was too skinny on the X-factor thread.
> 
> Personally, I like real women, e.g. size 14 to 20, no enhancement surgery etc.A wonky tooth or something can sometimes add to the appeal.
> 
> ...


 
I hate this phrase of "real women" when it is applied only to women over a certain size! You don't have to be overweight to be real! I am a size 8-10 and am happy with my size. I think Cheryl cole is a beautiful girl if a little thin but that is due to the industry in which she works. I too am 5 foot 3 in and if i was a size 14 would be overweight in my opinion.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

fobs said:


> I hate this phrase of "real women" when it is applied only to women over a certain size! You don't have to be overweight to be real!


 
I clarified this in later posts.  Anyway, who said 14 or 16 was overweight? 



> I too am 5 foot 3 in and if i was a size 14 would be overweight in my opinion.


 
TBH this and especially Cahir's comment of looking "obese" at the same height/size is a little alarming to me.  What size do women have to be to carry off a size 14  - 6 feet? what about size 16?


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## Dave Vanian (19 Aug 2008)

Here's a question for the male participants of this thread, which might give some food for thought to the females.  

Which do you think is sexier?

(1) Lady who's slightly overweight but dresses sexy, walks and carries herself with confidence and humour and generally acts like she's sex on legs.

(2) Lady who's not overweight at all and is more physically attractive, but frets endlessly in front of the mirror, will argue with a genuine compliment and insists on the light being off when you're making that sweet music.

_Hasten to add that neither of the above is description of the aforementioned Mrs. V, who is probably somewhere between these two fictional extremes.  _


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> TBH this and especially Cahir's comment of looking "obese" at the same height/size is a little alarming to me. What size do women have to be to carry off a size 14 - 6 feet? what about size 16?


 
Ditto - this suggests to me that the media brainwashing of unrealistic female bodyshapes is working - a size 14 is not going to be overweight on someone who is 5ft 3, nor is a size 16.
For posters to suggest that these sizes (on that height) = obese or overweight is VERY alarming.

Im not saying there is anything wrong with someone being a size 10, but equally a size 16 does NOT not overweight, and certainly not obese. 

Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 all of her adult life. Was she fat? No.


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## Cahir (19 Aug 2008)

Size 16 in Marilyn Monroes time is about a size 12 today http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp

And at 5ft 5" a size 12 was healthy.


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## fobs (19 Aug 2008)

i don't think it is media "brianwashing" at all. If you look at a persons BMI (body mass index) usually if you are a size 14-16 as 5ft3in you will be classed as overweight if this size rather than if you are a smaller size. I don't think it is alarming at all. As a nation we are becoming heavier so just because more people are a size 14+ doesn't mean that they are the correct weight/size. For my weight/height I am in the normal range of the BMI index and would not be if was a few stone heavier.


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> Here's a question for the male participants of this thread, which might give some food for thought to the females.
> 
> Which do you think is sexier?
> 
> ...



Numero Uno for me!


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

fobs said:


> i don't think it is media "brianwashing" at all. If you look at a persons BMI (body mass index) usually if you are a size 14-16 as 5ft3in you will be classed as overweight if this size rather than if you are a smaller size. I don't think it is alarming at all. As a nation we are becoming heavier so just because more people are a size 14+ doesn't mean that they are the correct weight/size. For my weight/height I am in the normal range of the BMI index and would not be if was a few stone heavier.


 
Perhaps there is confusion over dress size and actual weight. I just did the BMI calculation using my weight and height from when I was a size 16 - it comes out at 25.6. 
A BMI of over 25 MAY indicate that someone is overweight, that 'may' is something that depends on a lot of factors like how someone is carrying the weight. I lost some size but gained some muscle so now Im a smaller fit in clothes but still weigh around the same as when I wore a larger size.


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## Dave Vanian (19 Aug 2008)

Although it's probably obvious from my wording, Number 1 for me too.


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## MrMan (19 Aug 2008)

BMI is very misleading and doesn't really tell an accurate tale. Most rugby players would be considered obese using the BMI index.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> Size 16 in Marilyn Monroes time is about a size 12 today http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp
> 
> And at 5ft 5" a size 12 was healthy.


 
This whole thing is unconfirmed either way. Maybe she wasn't a 16 but she never looked like a 12 to me.

From her vitals on the same link, she weighed up to 10 stone. By some of the above comments, I'm guessing 10 stone at 5'5" would be considered overweight by some women.

Anyway, it sounds like you are contradicting yourself a little - above you say size 14 at 5'3" is obese, yet size 12 at 5'5" is healthy?!

As a matter of interest, (Fobs & cahir) how tall would a woman have to be to look OK as a size 16 in your opinion?

_Edit: oh - number one Dave...obviously._


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## fobs (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> This whole thing is unconfirmed either way. Maybe she wasn't a 16 but she never looked like a 12 to me.
> 
> From her vitals on the same link, she weighed up to 10 stone. By some of the above comments, I'm guessing 10 stone at 5'5" would be considered overweight by some women.
> 
> ...


 
Have no idea "how tall" just know that with my build/height my current size suits me. i am no expert on this but imo most size 14-16+ women could do with losing a few pounds!


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

fobs said:


> i am no expert on this but imo most size 14-16+ women could do with losing a few pounds!


 
You certainly are no expert, youve just insulted the majority of the adult female population.
I think a comment like that illustrates the severe body dysmorphia that people are developing based on what they are being exposed to as 'normal' in the media.


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## Teabag (19 Aug 2008)

Teabag said:


> In my dreams, Kelly doesn't talk so much



Speak of the devil, I just read that Kelly Brooke has broken up with her longtime boyfriend.
Super! If my dreams are anything to go by, and they normally are, it is only a matter of time before she is standing naked beside me in a field full of thistles soaking up the summer rain...


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## Cahir (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Anyway, it sounds like you are contradicting yourself a little - above you say size 14 at 5'3" is obese, yet size 12 at 5'5" is healthy?!
> 
> As a matter of interest, (Fobs & cahir) how tall would a woman have to be to look OK as a size 16 in your opinion?
> 
> _Edit: oh - number one Dave...obviously._



A size 14 on *me* (5'3") would look obese.  On some other women of my height it might just look overweight.  It all depends on body shape.  I think you'd have to be quite tall and broad to carry off a size 16.  

Shop sizes are funny anyway.  In Topshop I'm a 10, Oasis an 8, Gap a 6 (US size 2 - serious case of vanity sizing there).


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> I think you'd have to be quite tall and broad to carry off a size 16.


 
Im neither tall nor broad and I carried it off. In fact, I got far more male attention as a size 16 than at any other time. Im very petite, size 3 feet, tiny waist. All my weight goes on bust and hips/bum.
In a million years I would not have used the term obese to describe myself when I was a 16.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

fobs said:


> imo most size 14-16+ women could do with losing a few pounds!


 
If this is genuinely what you believe, I find it depressing.


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## Ash 22 (19 Aug 2008)

None of us are totally happy about how we look. We're too self conscious and worry too much of what others think of us. We deserve a good kick up the behind at times as our worries compared to people who have real problems are nothing. Happiness comes from within and thankfully personally its little things that really make me happy and bring a smile to my face. Don't get me wrong there are types of clothes I would love to wear but would make me really look a stick insect. I'm 5'5" just barely over 8 stone, skinny and I mean skinny legs, arms etc so I have to choose clothes pretty carefully at times to do a bit of camoflauge, no nice low neck tops for me.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Im neither tall nor broad and I carried it off. In fact, I got far more male attention as a size 16 than at any other time. Im very petite, size 3 feet, tiny waist. All my weight goes on bust and hips/bum.


 
Is that offer to run away together still available?


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## Dave Vanian (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Is that offer to run away together still available?


 
Join the queue.


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## tml (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> A size 14 on *me* (5'3") would look obese. On some other women of my height it might just look overweight. It all depends on body shape. I think you'd have to be quite tall and broad to carry off a size 16.
> 
> Shop sizes are funny anyway. In Topshop I'm a 10, Oasis an 8, Gap a 6 (US size 2 - serious case of vanity sizing there).


 
Christ a size 14 obese? What a depressing statement, especially coming from a woman!! I am that height and a size 16/18, I wish I was a size 14 but until I get over my irrational fear of exercise thats not gonna happen 

I agree with Truthseeker, I get plenty of male attention when Im out - but big boobs and a small waist help


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## truthseeker (19 Aug 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> Join the queue.


 
Tsk tsk, Caveat was clearly first on the queue!!! 

Yes Caveat, we shall run off to the virtual world of curviness and then Ill  have my head wrecked trying to keep you away from all the other curvy women there


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## Cahir (19 Aug 2008)

Size 8-10 can be curvy too!


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> Size 8-10 can be curvy too!


 
Yeah, but by your logic they would have to be 3 feet tall


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## Cahir (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Yeah, but by your logic they would have to be 3 feet tall



So untrue! 

I have quite a large bust, a bit of a bum but there's no spare flab on me so I'm curvy without being fat.  It's very possible.


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## Danmo (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> A size 14 on *me* (5'3") would look obese. On some other women of my height it might just look overweight. It all depends on body shape. I think you'd have to be quite tall and broad to carry off a size 16.
> 
> Shop sizes are funny anyway. In Topshop I'm a 10, Oasis an 8, Gap a 6 (US size 2 - serious case of vanity sizing there).


 
I am 5ft 10. Slim but definitely not skinny. I am a 12 top. 12 skirt. 14 trousers and 16 in a dress 
Go figure......


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## Betsy Og (19 Aug 2008)

If you think Irish lads are bad then check this out  

a bit of a laugh and a great quote to end it by a maligned local lady referring to the lads from The Isa by saying "the odds are good but the goods are odd".

Impressive Irish centre in that place but real ends of the earth, probably a good 20 hours driving to anywhere you've heard of/civilisation.


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## DavyJones (19 Aug 2008)

Being sexy is a state of mind, IMHO, most women have no idea of the power that they have, as  what a little smile can do or a lingering look. I have found women very attractive just from their attitude. 
Men are simple creatures and a bit of fat around the belly,legs wherever doesn't come in to it, as long as ye let us kiss and cuddle ye.


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## Dave Vanian (19 Aug 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Being sexy is a state of mind, IMHO, most women have no idea of the power that they have, as what a little smile can do or a lingering look. I have found women very attractive just from their attitude.
> Men are simple creatures and a bit of fat around the belly,legs wherever doesn't come in to it, as long as ye let us kiss and cuddle ye.


 
Hear Hear.


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## Caveat (19 Aug 2008)

Yes, well said.

Keep the body descriptions coming though 

Seriously though, my only point was that I wish women wouldn't obsess about their weight so much. It genuinely makes me unhappy that body image for women can be so consuming. Life is too short. Incidentally, this applies as much to women who believe they are too skinny as well as those who believe they are too fat. I only made a point of the larger so-called 'real women' scenario as this seems to be a more common concern. As others have said, be happy with what you are and don't attempt to please anyone but yourselves.

By the way if anyone is interested, I'm 6'1", 34" waist, and around 15 stone


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## MrMan (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> So untrue!
> 
> I have quite a large bust, a bit of a bum but there's no spare flab on me so I'm curvy without being fat.  It's very possible.



I can see the beginnings of a social networking site here...


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## Cahir (19 Aug 2008)

MrMan said:


> I can see the beginnings of a social networking site here...



...and married!!


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## MrMan (19 Aug 2008)

Cahir said:


> ...and married!!



Thats allowed!


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## fobs (19 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> If this is genuinely what you believe, I find it depressing.


 
Why? It is what I genuinely believe!


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> Hear Hear.


Here Here


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## batty (20 Aug 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> I suppose its how you define overweight.
> 
> In my courting days I used to go for taller women (ideally ... before desparation set in !! ) who, I suppose, would tend to be a bit more slender but I definitely agree with you that this stick insect trend is downright awful. More rather than less.
> 
> On a radio show a guy rang in to say "fellas wants women with something to grab a hold of" and he wasnt wrong. T & A are attractive, not bony protruding angles. Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz, Kate Beckinsale - my style of women.


 
 I think these examples of "curvier" or bigger women are ridiculous.  they're all a british size 8-10.  Equally as somebody else pointed out the example of Marilyn Monroe as being a size 16 and that she was really a size 12 in todays sizing.


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## truthseeker (20 Aug 2008)

batty said:


> I think these examples of "curvier" or bigger women are ridiculous. they're all a british size 8-10. Equally as somebody else pointed out the example of Marilyn Monroe as being a size 16 and that she was really a size 12 in todays sizing.


 
Which I think proves the point - women in the media are below what a norm in the general population, which is why its so hard to find a size 14 example. Even a size 12 would be classed as big by todays media standards. But among the general population a 14 is totally normal.

How about Charlotte Church - is she not a size 14 fairly regularly?


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## batty (20 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Which I think proves the point - women in the media are below what a norm in the general population, which is why its so hard to find a size 14 example. Even a size 12 would be classed as big by todays media standards. But among the general population a 14 is totally normal.
> 
> How about Charlotte Church - is she not a size 14 fairly regularly?


 
Eactly Truthseeker, the "curvier" examples quoted are normally slim to very slim.    I've often read about celebs who have "balloned" to a size 12!

Charlotte Church is probably an example of soembody in the public eye who is averageish.


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## truthseeker (20 Aug 2008)

batty said:


> Eactly Truthseeker, the "curvier" examples quoted are normally slim to very slim. I've often read about celebs who have "balloned" to a size 12!
> 
> Charlotte Church is probably an example of soembody in the public eye who is averageish.


 
Jade Goody? Kerry Katona? Notice how none of these names are A-list celebs?


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## Caveat (20 Aug 2008)

_Kate Winslet_ for example is IMO the most attractive woman on the planet.

Not sure what size she is now (has lost some weight in recent years - Hollywood pressure?) but I'm pretty sure she has regularly been a 14/16 or thereabouts.


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## truthseeker (20 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> _Kate Winslet_ for example is IMO the most attractive woman on the planet.
> 
> Not sure what size she is now (has lost some weight in recent years - Hollywood pressure?) but I'm pretty sure she has regularly been a 14/16 or thereabouts.


 
Well done Caveat - also Beyonce has sizeable booty.


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## batty (20 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Jade Goody? Kerry Katona? Notice how none of these names are A-list celebs?


 
In fairness I'd say Jade & Kerry are not A listers as they have no talent,nothing to do with their weight!


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## truthseeker (20 Aug 2008)

batty said:


> In fairness I'd say Jade & Kerry are not A listers as they have no talent,nothing to do with their weight!


 
Agreed - the point I was making was that I actually couldnt think of an A-lister who was not a skinny malinks.


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## DavyJones (20 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Agreed - the point I was making was that I actually couldnt think of an A-lister who was not a skinny malinks.




Opera, Quenn latifah, Rosie o Donnell, Roseanne. I'll think of more!


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## truthseeker (20 Aug 2008)

DavyJones said:


> Opera, Quenn latifah, Rosie o Donnell, Roseanne. I'll think of more!


 
Are any of those ladies classed as attractive women to the lads out there?


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## Caveat (20 Aug 2008)

Well, yes to Queen Latifah anyway.


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## MrMan (20 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Are any of those ladies classed as attractive women to the lads out there?



That would be a big no from me anyways.


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## MandaC (20 Aug 2008)

You will find a lot of women who claim to be happy with their "curves" turn out to be not so happy.  Kate Winslet could hardly be described as carrying any extra weight having conformed to hollywood standards and Fern Britton got a gastric band fitted on the sly, having claimed to be happy with her weight.

I also find it surprising that people are classing Kelly Brook on Penelope Cruz as "curvy".  Both of those women I would consider very very slim.

Best example of a real curvy woman who is attractive is Nigella Lawson.  You can tell she eats what she cooks and looks fabulous on it.  In her last series I did think however, that she had put up a lot of weight and would want to be careful.


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## tink (20 Aug 2008)

While we are at it what do we think about real men vs media/model/mag ideal? I find the average irish man has no interest in muscles but that's okay with me, I am not attracted to skinny guys like a bit of broadness to the shoulders. However, I notice that once irish men reach their forties they do really let themselves go and need to be careful re health issues....


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## MandaC (20 Aug 2008)

I never liked skinny guys either, prefer the "chunky" type.  I often find though that once guys stop playing sports that they start having trouble keeping off the pounds, where before they could eat anything.  Has happened to a fair few friends of mine, once they hit their early - mid thirties.  Some tackled it and some just really let themselves go.


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## Betsy Og (21 Aug 2008)

(managed to double post)


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## Betsy Og (21 Aug 2008)

I think there are 2 major danger points for men:

1) post university spread (ever see a fella you were in school with who you havent seen in over 10 years and they look generally "inflated")

2) getting married/giving up competitive team sport (one may lead to the other!!) - important to get into another aerobic sport (maybe cycling or squash, swimming if you're able) and not just the obligatory golf. 

Avoided 1, and am conscious of 2. Time is probably the greatest problem in avoiding 2, busy stage of life. 

A bit of weight training (even the auld York set of vinyl weights) is good, not so much because of building muscle, but because I understand it speeds up your metabolism meaning you burn energy/food quicker. I know thats is a bit vague but I aint no scientist. Theres also a bit of general tone that you get from weights that even aerobic sports probably wont give you. On a personal level I hate gyms/wouldnt be bothered going, so whatever bits & pieces I do, I do them at home.


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## truthseeker (21 Aug 2008)

tink said:


> While we are at it what do we think about real men vs media/model/mag ideal? I find the average irish man has no interest in muscles but that's okay with me, I am not attracted to skinny guys like a bit of broadness to the shoulders. However, I notice that once irish men reach their forties they do really let themselves go and need to be careful re health issues....


 
I dont think its practical for an average Irish bloke to be a muscle bound god - the magazine guys dont have to work full time jobs and help out with the kids etc....
I do agree that a lot of Irish guys really lose the plot in their 40s though (and even earlier sometimes), too much - I wouldnt expect a man to be in the gym day in and day out, but a brisk walk 3 times a week, maybe a cycle at the weekends etc...

Men or women should take care to be getting some kind of regular exercise just to be healthy anyway but I think Pierce Brosnan for example is a very handsome guy with a realistic look, he is not overly muscle bound, he is not in his early 20s, he has normal hair/beard sometimes.

I think the male 'ideal' is a lot more realistically attainable than the female 'ideal'.


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## Purple (21 Aug 2008)

There is a big difference between a few curves and fat. Some women are just fat (as are some men). If you eat the wrong food and get no exercise then you aren’t going to look good. Men and women are attracted to healthy body forms; it’s the result of 100’000 years of evolution. Carrying 20 pounds of flab on your ass is not attractive; having all your ribs showing is not attractive either.
Just as hearing women ***** about each other is annoying (and to be fair very few of the women I know do this) it is also annoying hearing some woman who is clearly very fat (and therefore unattractive) suggesting that if it wasn’t for women’s magazines and “society” they would be considered attractive. 

BTW, I an 6’ and 14.5 stone so I’m no Adonis but I do get some exercise and try to eat well.
I, like most of the population, could do with losing a few pounds. Saying this should not be taken as an insult.
There are plenty of women who are attractive but would be more attractive if they lost some weight. That doesn’t mean they should but it’s true none the less.


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## Caveat (21 Aug 2008)

MandaC said:


> Best example of a real curvy woman who is attractive is Nigella Lawson. You can tell she eats what she cooks and looks fabulous on it. In her last series I did think however, that she had put up a lot of weight and would want to be careful.


 
Yes! How could I forget about Nigella? 

Eat away my love...


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## MrMan (21 Aug 2008)

> but I think Pierce Brosnan for example is a very handsome guy with a realistic look, he is not overly muscle bound, he is not in his early 20s, he has normal hair/beard sometimes.
> 
> I think the male 'ideal' is a lot more realistically attainable than the female 'ideal'.



Our 'ideal' is attainable but we have to look like James Bond!


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## truthseeker (21 Aug 2008)

MrMan said:


> Our 'ideal' is attainable but we have to look like James Bond!


 
I tried to soften the blow by not citing Sean Connery


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## S.L.F (21 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> I tried to soften the blow by not citing Sean Connery



Well he is dreamy!!!


er......so my wife says!


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## casiopea (22 Aug 2008)

Purple said:


> There are plenty of women who are attractive but would be more attractive if they lost some weight. That doesn’t mean they should but it’s true none the less.



Thats definitely true - the danger however is that attractiveness is subjective.  

So for example you may find me more attractive if I lost 3lbs, Cavaet may find me more attractive if I lost 6lbs, ClubMan may find me more attractive if I stopped posting altogether (only joking Clubbers) - the point is what is attractive for you is not necessarily the same for someone else.  When people, and unfortunately it seems women are a bit more sensitive to this, start bowing to what they feel other people think would be more attractive the danger starts.  These people fall prone to Anorexia, Bulimia (sp?), unnecessary invasive procedures.  

For me, the secret is finding confidence in yourself.  This confidence is not a fake/show-off confidence but rather someone who is secure and happy in themselves.  This type of person, be they male or female, size 8 or size 16, to me is very attractive.


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