# UB mortgage paid off next 12 months - can I request deeds now?



## newirishman (23 May 2022)

We will have our Ulsterbank mortgage paid off around Q2 next year, about a year ahead of the original mortgage schedule. Final payment will be a lump sum (savings).
With UB leaving, I am a bit concerned about potential delays (or general challenges) with getting the deeds from them as and when we request the settlement figure and send them the money.
Hence wondering if I can ask my solicitor to request the deeds in advance, and have him hold them on behalf of Ulster?
Never mind that there will be some costs involved.
I just don’t want to be in a position where I need to chase the deeds when they are moving their mortgage book.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (23 May 2022)

newirishman said:


> Hence wondering if I can ask my solicitor to request the deeds in advance, and have him hold them on behalf of Ulster?


I'm almost certain a bank will not give you possession of deeds until final payment. 

I wouldn't worry about the exit of Ulster from the market. Whoever takes over the mortgage will have the exact same obligation as Ulster does. Your legal rights won't change.


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## newirishman (23 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I'm almost certain a bank will not give you possession of deeds until final payment.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the exit of Ulster from the market. Whoever takes over the mortgage will have the exact same obligation as Ulster does. Your legal rights won't change.


I wouldn't take possession - a solicitor would hold them on behalf of the bank. That can't be such an unusual request?
When I switched bank a few years ago, the deeds were at my solicitors office for a few weeks whilst the switch was happening. Was quite interesting to actually have a look through them.

Not worried about my rights, or obligations of whoever takes over the deeds. I am worried about not getting the deeds from whatever bank quickly because the filing cabinet fell of a truck / got lost / can't be found / whatever when the mortgages get transferred. 

I have full confidence that something will go wrong during the transfer, especially as it is physical documents, and the old and new bank will blame each other.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (23 May 2022)

newirishman said:


> I have full confidence that something will go wrong during the transfer, especially as it is physical documents, and the old and new bank will blame each other.



Loans get bought and sold all the time and lenders have processes to manage this. It often involved keeping on same staff and physical location of where deeds and contracts are stored.

Sure, any organisation can make a mistake but I don't think the risk is extra elevated.


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## newirishman (23 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Loans get bought and sold all the time and lenders have processes to manage this. It often involved keeping on same staff and physical location of where deeds and contracts are stored.
> 
> Sure, any organisation can make a mistake but I don't think the risk is extra elevated.


Whilst it applaud your confidence, I do not share it. The scale of KBC and Ulster leaving is rather different I think.

Anyway, I guess I'll drop the solicitor a note and ask him the question directly.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 May 2022)

I think it's a good idea.  I would say that KBC is well organised. BoI might not be and there could be confusion in the handover.

But no need to do it yet.  The deal has not been approved by the CCPC, so it will take at least 6 months before the loan is sold. 

So your solicitor could say that you are switching and request the deeds.

Or if you are in funds , just pay off the last three months repayments together and get the title deeds.

Brendan


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## Monbretia (23 May 2022)

I doubt the deeds will even move from where they are, most probably in storage with Iron Mountain or similar outfit, I'm sure more than one bank uses the same storage facilities.   I could clear my mortgage now with UB and get back my deeds before they go but it never even occurred to me to see it as a problem.   They have many inefficiencies but the stuff moved off site and stored is probably in a better place than being in branch/head office cabinets!


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## Brendan Burgess (23 May 2022)

It's very unlikely that there will be a problem. 

But if there is a problem, it would be very difficult to sort out with BoI blaming KBC and vice versa.

I know of two cases where deeds were lost, and there was great hassle in trying to find them and eventually to reconstruct them. 

If I were coming to the end of my mortgage in a few months and I had the cash, I would just clear it.  

If I had a year to go, I wouldn't bother. 

Brendan


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## newirishman (23 May 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> It's very unlikely that there will be a problem.
> 
> But if there is a problem, it would be very difficult to sort out with BoI blaming KBC and vice versa.
> 
> ...


It is Ulsterbank & PermTSB in my case, but guess point still stands.
I'll see where I am once the letter for the transfer announcement arrives, all going well I can clear the mortgage before the transfer happens.
If if is a year away, I will have enough cash to clear the mortgage ahead of the transfer.


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## Johnno75 (28 May 2022)

Usually, until the Mortgage has been discharged, the lender will not release the Deeds. 

However, as has been suggested, your Solicitor can request them on Accountable Trust Receipt (ATR). 

Banks will in most instances release Deeds under ATR to the borrower’s Solicitors when a switch or transfer is envisaged. Your Solicitor will have to agree to your proposal to take up the Deeds and I’m not sure they’ll be happy to do so unless there’s actually a switch or transfer going to happen. 

ATR’s are a serious business for Solicitors as the Solicitor is professionally and contractually on the hook if anything goes wrong. Solicitors don’t like holding Deeds for any longer than necessary and usually will only hold them pending part of a larger deal eg a remortgage, switch or transfer whereafter they’ll pass the Deeds on to the relevant institution or purchaser. For a Solicitor to draw down deeds under ATR where they know there is no transaction pending may pose ethical difficulty for the Solicitor but I don’t know for sure.

The Bank will not release the Deeds directly to the customer until the mortgage has been discharged.


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## Brendan Burgess (28 May 2022)

newirishman said:


> It is Ulsterbank & PermTSB in my case, but guess point still stands.



Probably more so.  I suspect that KBC and Bank of Ireland are better organised than UB and ptsb, so more might go wrong.


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## miser (29 May 2022)

I wouldn’t be so sure about KBC’s level of organisation or competence either. I’m waiting on them for the past 7 weeks for deeds, life policy documents and notices of no interest. They’ve ignored the last two emails I’ve sent. I can understand the staff there not giving a monkeys curse about anything work related as they’re all out the door shortly enough, but right now they’re not exactly giving me that warm & fuzzy customer service feeling…


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## PinkLloyd (22 Jun 2022)

newirishman said:


> I just don’t want to be in a position where I need to chase the deeds when they are moving their mortgage book.


I am in a very similar situation with UB, so watching this closely. I moved from PTSB to UB and do not intend to deal with them again, but now coming to the end of a fixed rate with UB (March 2023), by which time I expect UB will want to have transferred the mortgage, so, as I have the cash, I intend to redeem the mortgage before then.

The only reason I'm hesitating is that, well, the current UB fixed rate makes it a cheap loan, but at the moment the cash is evaporating, so no better use for it but to pay off the mortgage before the transfer. I just need to pick the right time!


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