# Tenants have indicated they're not going to pay the last months rent



## GirlTuesday (9 Sep 2015)

I have a two bed apartment rented out. My tenants rang me today. During the course of the phone call they indicated that they're not going to pay the last months rent (due at the end of September) unless they were going to get their deposit back when they move out at the end of October. They also said that there's quite a bit of damage to the apartment but this was normal wear and tear and they "know their rights". Now I am very concerned. I had constant phone calls from the property management company about these lads having parties and making noise. If damage is done, and they don't bother to pay the last months rent, is there anything I can do? Will I be left high and dry? Does anyone have any advice? This apartment was my PPR until I rented it out last October and was immaculate. It had been newly painted and the furniture was perfect. Thanks.


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## Bronte (9 Sep 2015)

My advice is you're going to have to accept it.  You have my sympathies. 

Here's plan 2.

Assure them they'll get the deposit back and you totally understand that wear and tear is normal, and see how that goes.  Be very light in tone. 

Plan 3

And if you really really want to shame them: 

Make sure you know their name and address, home address, work address, college address.  And threaten them with informing mum and dad, college, work.  And be sure to be quick and change the meters and inform ESB of their forwarding address.  DON'T do this before they leave or they might thrash the place. 

I've never done any of the above except tell the ESB as my logic is that run away tenants cost the rest of us higher esb bills. 

Anybody else with better ideas !


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## GirlTuesday (9 Sep 2015)

Thanks so much Bronte. This is really a bitter pill to swallow as I've been more than fair to them. The rent was never, and I mean never, paid on time. There have been a number of other issues that I let slide also. The apartment was immaculate when they moved in. They seemed like nice, polite lads. I know where they go to college and work. I have one of their dads mobile numbers in fact. I had tenants falling over themselves trying to rent my apartment at the time but gave it to them as they seemed decent. More fool me.


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## Páid (9 Sep 2015)

Tell them you want to [broken link removed]. 

You would then be able to assess whether it's wear and tear or whether you need to get the Gardaí involved.


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## facetious (9 Sep 2015)

I would agree with Paid (sorry, I can't find the accent on my tablet) that you should do an inspection. It could be a normal inspection or a pre-exit inspection where you can indicate anything that should be rectified before they vacate. It will give you a better idea of any damage there may be.

For your next letting, I would suggest that you insist on 1.5, 2 times or even 3 times the rent as a deposit, as some landlords are now doing.

I have always said that a landlord renting out his property should not expect to get it back in the same condition as when rented out. In my opinion, fair wear and tear is very much on the tenants' side. Exceptionally few home owners will repaint their property every other year (and many landlords do this on a near yearly basis where tenants vacate at the end of the first year.


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## Bronte (9 Sep 2015)

Páid said:


> Tell them you want to [broken link removed].
> 
> You would then be able to assess whether it's wear and tear or whether you need to get the Gardaí involved.



How does that work, ie it doesn't work.  The Gardai will do nothing.  You'd need to have an axe murderer before you'd even get the Gardai to call.  They dont' want to know a) civil matters b) parties c) unsocial tenants - and we're not even at that level, not at all.

Good suggestion about an inspection, maybe it will spur them into at least cleaning it.


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## Bronte (9 Sep 2015)

facetious said:


> . In my opinion, fair wear and tear is very much on the tenants' side. Exceptionally few home owners will repaint their property every other year (and many landlords do this on a near yearly basis where tenants vacate at the end of the first year.



Hope you're keeping well Facetious. 

That's interesting landlords are now requesting higher deposits.  On the continent it's 3 months at least.  And you actually do get your property back in the condition you let it in.  An unheard of concept in Ireland.  My Irish walls have layers and layers of paint.


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## Páid (9 Sep 2015)

Bronte said:


> How does that work, ie it doesn't work.  The Gardai will do nothing.  You'd need to have an axe murderer before you'd even get the Gardai to call.  They dont' want to know a) civil matters b) parties c) unsocial tenants - and we're not even at that level, not at all.
> 
> Good suggestion about an inspection, maybe it will spur them into at least cleaning it.



I was just trying to illustrate both ends of the spectrum - normal wear & tear vs complete destruction of the apartment.


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## noproblem (9 Sep 2015)

My sister was told something along the lines of what you were told and handed their email to her solicitor. She got her apartment back in the condition she gave it, got her last months rent paid and was treated with great respect by the students and "their parents" Total cost of the solicitor and his letter was less than €100, but don't know the exact amount.


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## Bronte (9 Sep 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> Thanks so much Bronte. This is really a bitter pill to swallow as I've been more than fair to them. The rent was never, and I mean never, paid on time. There have been a number of other issues that I let slide also. The apartment was immaculate when they moved in. They seemed like nice, polite lads. I know where they go to college and work. I have one of their dads mobile numbers in fact. I had tenants falling over themselves trying to rent my apartment at the time but gave it to them as they seemed decent. More fool me.



Missed this earlier.  Don't beat yourself up we've all been there.  

And clever you, you have dad's phone no.  I'll come back on this tomorrow.


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## Thirsty (9 Sep 2015)

On the rent question, you'll know for the next time...come down hard straight away. Dont accept late payment or it'll only get worse.


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## JohnJay (9 Sep 2015)

a quick text to Daddy might not be any harm. If he's a student then its probably daddys money anyway. If nothing else, it might make  him look at what his little boy gets up to.


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## Bronte (10 Sep 2015)

I think a chat with Dad is in order, be polite and clear as to what his child is up to.  I'd go and see the damage first though - and you need permission for this.  They are right uppity students with their 'rights' .  If it's not going well with the parent, which I'd be surprised at, remind him that you took on the students because you were being kind and they had been so sincere and you felt sorry for them and you didnt expect this.  Any self respectign parent would be appalled at this behaviour.  Doubt very much the parents know about it. 

I wonder too if you mention to the tenant that you'll contact Dad if they don't pay next months rent, that might work too.  And tell them you'd like to visit the place.  Perhaps arriving on the doorstep would be a good idea.  No chance to say no like there is with a phone call.

The only tenants I will not have is students.


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## elcato (10 Sep 2015)

No doubt the students are second year law students. I remember the day when we used to not allow law students (not actually telling them btw) in the comapny I worked for years ago. They always thought they knew it all. Firstly tell them you know your rights and if they don't pay the rent for the final month they will be in breach blah blah blah. Then organise an inspection before they leave and tell them you will be in contact with their Doddy to repay the deposit.


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## Páid (10 Sep 2015)

Do the inspection without delay. If they don't pay the rent at the end of the month, follow the procedure for rent arrears - [broken link removed]


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## GirlTuesday (13 Sep 2015)

Thanks so much for all the replies. They've said they're going to pay. We'll see when the rent date rolls around! I'm going to get two months rent in future as suggested also. These guys are unreal. At the start of the summer one of them rang me and said that he was going to Germany for the summer so wasn't going to pay "his part" of the rent but not to worry, he'd be back in October and resume paying rent. I rang the Da (father of one of the other ones) and told them I didn't take to kindly to them trying to pull a fast one on a woman who'd recently given birth. I told him if the rent wasn't paid in full by them whether yer man was in Germany or not they'd be deemed to have broken the lease early and would have to get out and I'd retain the deposit. Needless to say the rent was paid in full albeit not ever on time. These lads will not be getting a reference from me!


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## frankde (13 Sep 2015)

Is there a website where such tenants can be named and shamed?
Basically such website would be useful for landlords


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## moneybox (13 Sep 2015)

frankde said:


> Is there a website where such tenants can be named and shamed?
> Basically such website would be useful for landlords


 
I doubt you can do that, they would have you for defamation.


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## Jon Snow (13 Sep 2015)

moneybox said:


> I doubt you can do that, they would have you for defamation.



If what you say is purely factual, where is the defamation?


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## frankde (13 Sep 2015)

*


Jon Snow said:


> If what you say is purely factual, where is the defamation?



Exactly

The revenue commissioners publish names of people who do not pay their tax, again they are just stating what is factual.


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## Jon Snow (13 Sep 2015)

frankde said:


> *
> 
> 
> Exactly
> ...



Bad example, Revenue publishes details of tax settlements where certain criteria are met. That publication is required under statute.


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## Bronte (18 Sep 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> Thanks so much for all the replies. They've said they're going to pay. We'll see when the rent date rolls around! I'm going to get two months rent in future as suggested also. These guys are unreal. At the start of the summer one of them rang me and said that he was going to Germany for the summer so wasn't going to pay "his part" of the rent but not to worry, he'd be back in October and resume paying rent. I rang the Da (father of one of the other ones) and told them I didn't take to kindly to them trying to pull a fast one on a woman who'd recently given birth. I told him if the rent wasn't paid in full by them whether yer man was in Germany or not they'd be deemed to have broken the lease early and would have to get out and I'd retain the deposit. Needless to say the rent was paid in full albeit not ever on time. These lads will not be getting a reference from me!



They're not 'unreal' you are. Ye old student off for xmas, Easter or whatever and we're not paying rent while we're not there is just standard student operational tactics.  But canny landlord, despite risking all by letting to students had the wherewithal to have Dads telephone no!

And you make me laugh, references!

Have you git paper, ink, printer, and biro and I'll show you a reference that would house Bernie Madoff.


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## cremeegg (30 Sep 2015)

Bronte said:


> Have you git paper, ink, printer, and biro and I'll show you a reference that would house Bernie Madoff.



I understand that Bernie Madoff has secure accommodation for the foreseeable future.


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## GirlTuesday (1 Oct 2015)

So the boyos have paid their rent. I have now tried to arrange viewings with prospective tenants and they have said that the apartment isn't in a fit state for a viewing and won't be until the end of the tenancy. Can I give them an appointment date and time (say in a few days time) and expect them to comply with it? If they aren't at home can I enter the property to show it to them? Thanks


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## Bronte (1 Oct 2015)

Well done on getting the rent.  Excellent news.  You won't want to hear my next advice, do not show it with sitting tenants, it's just a mad thing to do in my experience.

And no you of course can not enter their property without their permission - absolutely not.

If you really really want to show it, then you could 'try' to arrange it with the tenants, and this will backfire spectacularly as they will be in bed or out or wearing underwear or 10 unknown sleeping students on the couch and floor surrounded by beer cans.

You can however put it up on daft, and put up your previous good pictures and state it's not for viewing until x date.  I assume you're going to have to paint it, so organise that now.  I'd also gift the tenants a few rolls of black bags, j cloths and jif - you might be lucky !

I think you should count your blessings you got the rent and be prepared for some scrubbing.


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## Bronte (1 Oct 2015)

frankde said:


> Is there a website where such tenants can be named and shamed?
> Basically such website would be useful for landlords



No it does not exist, but a trawl through the PRTB cases could be helpful.


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## GirlTuesday (1 Oct 2015)

But I thought that I have the right to inspect the property during the duration of the tenancy?


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## Bronte (1 Oct 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> But I thought that I have the right to inspect the property during the duration of the tenancy?



Have you not been in it yet?  Have a go, but you need their permission.  How are you going to enforce your 'right' if they don't allow you in?  You're doing very well now, just deduct the damage at the end from the deposit. Alternatively have a pop around when only *one* of them is at home, any excuse might get you entry.  Consensual entry.


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## GirlTuesday (1 Oct 2015)

I have been in twice during the tenancy but it wasn't for inspection. It was just to pick up things. I have some very good prospective tenants lined up and I am eager to get it sorted soon. They're being very unreasonable by not allowing me in. I'm actually really fearing what state it's in now.


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## Bronte (1 Oct 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> They're being very unreasonable by not allowing me in. .



But they have rights too and don't have to do what you want.  I'm sure they got an earful from their parents and they also know they'll be getting probably zero deposit back.  You got the rent, you have the deposit to pay for cleaning and painting, unless they were crazy altogther that should be enough.  You've learnt a lot.  You've waiting tenants.  Don't push it. 

Fingers crossed the cooker isn't beyound cleaning.  Some things are just not worth scrubbing for.  And hopefully everything in the fridge is dead.


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## facetious (1 Oct 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> I have been in twice during the tenancy but it wasn't for inspection. It was just to pick up things. I have some very good prospective tenants lined up and I am eager to get it sorted soon. They're being very unreasonable by not allowing me in. I'm actually really fearing what state it's in now.


Why didn't you do inspections, from time to time, as you are entitled to do?

Why were you 'just picking some things up'? It is their home while they are paying rent (and probably even if they fail to pay) and are entitled to *exclusive* use of the property.


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## GirlTuesday (2 Oct 2015)

I never entered the property without permission. On two occasions I was collecting post (by appointment) and I was invited into the hallway and kitchen. They've always had exclusive use of the property.


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## facetious (2 Oct 2015)

GirlTuesday said:


> I never entered the property without permission. On two occasions I was collecting post (by appointment) and I was invited into the hallway and kitchen. They've always had exclusive use of the property.


In my opinion, and it just my opinion, once a property has been let as a tenancy, the landlord ceases to have any right to use the property as a postbox. It is no longer the landlords principle private residence and all your post should be sent to your new address, not to the address of your tenants.

Perhaps I have a suspicious mind, but a landlord who still uses the address of the property let often do so in order to not let a mortgage company/bank or other relevant companies know that s/he is not living there any more. Yep, call me suspicious. Though, I fully understand that it can take several months for all companies to update their records and it can be easy to remember to notify each and every one of them as, in general, there may be quite a few.

A wise idea is to keep an active list of all companies, departments and people who should be notified.

Sorry to pick on you, GirlTuesday.


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## GirlTuesday (2 Oct 2015)

yes you are picking on me. I've been a good landlord and these guys have taken the utter piss out of me all year. They've been nothing but hassle. As I said previously, not once was the rent paid on time. I constantly had to deal with complaints from neighbours regarding their behaviour. My baby was three weeks old when I moved out and these guys moved in. I didn't get my address changed on everything immediately as I was recovering from surgery, I had a newborn, I'd just moved house and as I'm self employed I was back to work also.


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## so-crates (2 Oct 2015)

I have before used An Post's redirection service and it was very helpful as I had truly not got a full list of all companies that might send me post

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Personal+Customers/Wizards/Manage+my+mail/redirection.htm


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