# Crazy Neighbours are flooding our foundations



## RuthS (1 Oct 2007)

This sounds unbelievable, I know - but it's true ... our next-door neighbours, 'till recently, fairly normal people, are actively flooding the foundations of the extension we're currently building.  WHAT CAN WE DO???They are shoving a hose pipe into a gravel bed on their side of the garden wall and leaving the tap run and run and run.  Our garden is lower than theirs and is flooding again and again and again.  The builders are going spare!  They've tested the water and have confirmed that it's treated, tap water, not rain water.  They called the Council in, who also took a water sample, and have siad they'll meter next-door's water.  The Council guy called to the house ref a 'suspected water leak out the back', but the neighbour told him he didn't know what he was talking about, and closed the door on his face,When we called to see the house last night, it was going on again, hosepipe jammed into wet gravel on their side of the wall - our site, dry on Friday afternoon was fill or water, and the 'lady' of the house was pottering about in her kitchen.  (She's a solicitor, by the way!!).We called to the police station on the way home.  They said they'd never heard the like - and told us to talk to the Council ....  What's the best thing for us to do??(Neighbours objected to the PP, by the way, and appealed to ABP - lost out both times - but this is ridiculous!)


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## secman (1 Oct 2007)

Pull the hose through next time you see it and keep doing it until they get tired of buying new hoses. Bet they will not ask for the hose back. Silly people should be treated in a silly manner. 


Secman


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## RuthS (1 Oct 2007)

Would if I could!!The hose stays well on their side, far down into the soil, and then floods out under the dividing wall into our, lower, garden.


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## Welfarite (1 Oct 2007)

Set up a video camera to record their actions...it's criminal damage in my opinion but you need proof...


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## Caveat (1 Oct 2007)

Yep

Agree with Welfarite - video is the only solution to this.  They can't argue or deny anything then.


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## NHG (1 Oct 2007)

Get a pump to pump the water out of the foundations to allow the builders to get on with the job - that would sick'en them worse that you won again


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## MOB (1 Oct 2007)

This does seem crazy.  Get your solicitor on the job for goodness sake.  Don't delay.  And don't waste time with lots of letters - one warning letter and then straight to court.  Tell your solicitor not to send the warning letter until the court proceedings are already drafted and ready to go- if you say that proceedings will issue in seven days, you absolutely must carry out the threat, so make sure thay are ready to go before that first letter.  This will cost you more, but in these situations it is the right way to go.

It may be that the legal proceedings would be best coming from your builder - as the nuisance created by your neighbours is actually impacting on him in the performance of his contract.  Your solicitor and barrister will be better able to advise.


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## sam h (1 Oct 2007)

Nightmare! Try the pump angle as the legal route could go on for ages especially as you say she is a solicitior (I know someone who did try to tackle a solicitor about PP and he basically blocked them at every turn as said directly to them at he would continue to do so, they evenually gave up but had already incurred about €20k of legal costs).
Try the pump and say nothing to them about it.....just wait to see their faces once your builders can get started.  Or could you get the builders to put down something that would force the water back onto their property (some sort of plastic board down into the ground?).  Would cost abit but nothing in comparison to legal costs.


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## paddyd (1 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> Agree with Welfarite - video is the only solution to this.  They can't argue or deny anything then.




Video your neighbours in their own lawn? If she's a solicitor, she'll have a field-day with that one


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## secman (1 Oct 2007)

You mentioned that one of the neighbours is a solicitor, if it continues I would let them know that you will report them to the Law society on the grounds that they are bringing the profession into disrepute. Nobody in any profession wants their regulatory body on their case, believe you me. 

Best of Luck

Secman


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## ludermor (1 Oct 2007)

Pumping the water out is really the best way to go, the hire of a pump for a few weeks would not be much and you wouldnt be getting into petty battles with your neighbour. By digging a small sump near the neighbour side the builder should be able to work away with no problems and he can direct the water to areas of the to suit himself


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## mf1 (1 Oct 2007)

secman said:


> You mentioned that one of the neighbours is a solicitor, if it continues I would let them know that you will report them to the Law society on the grounds that they are bringing the profession into disrepute. Nobody in any profession wants their regulatory body on their case, believe you me


 
And the Law Society will be fascinated but politely tell you that they are not in the habit of policing the private lives of their members. And the neighbour will have a field day with a libel action.........

mf


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## Caveat (1 Oct 2007)

paddyd said:


> Video your neighbours in their own lawn? If she's a solicitor, she'll have a field-day with that one


 
The OP can still video on their own property.

Presumably the water can be seen entering the basement - it has to be coming from somewhere.  Neighbour said they didn't know what the council guy was talking about re suspected water leak.  At least video evidence will show that _something_ untoward is indeed happening despite the protestations of the neighbour, and it may even indicate that the water originates from the neighbours property.


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## sydthebeat (1 Oct 2007)

Just get the builders to get the concrete into the foundations.... fair enough the concrete will displace the water and it will be messy... but i wouldnt allow this gob****e next door to disrupt the work in anyway..... The concrete will still set ok....

either that or get the builders to shore up that side of the garden and this will cause her gravel bed to flood...... its not a big job....


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## nelly (1 Oct 2007)

sydthebeat said:


> Just get the builders to get the concrete into the foundations.... fair enough the concrete will displace the water and it will be messy... but i wouldnt allow this gob****e next door to disrupt the work in anyway..... The concrete will still set ok....
> 
> either that or get the builders to shore up that side of the garden and this will cause her gravel bed to flood...... its not a big job....


sounds like a plan!
I would also get some legal advice but it does seem like you are doing all that you can within the law. I would not try anothing remotely illegal much and all as they are trying to rise you, stooping to their level will only make things even worse.


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## Joe Nonety (1 Oct 2007)

From a UK council site so I'm not sure if this applies in Ireland...

"
There is a 'right of natural drainage', which means that water flowing naturally across the surface of your land is allowed to flow downhill naturally onto your neighbour's land. You must not channel the flow of water to cause damage to your neighbour's land - so water falling as rain on your lawn is allowed to flow downhill onto your neighbour's land but roof-water coming from a down-pipe is not.

Similarly your neighbour on the uphill side is allowed to let the water flowing naturally across their land, flow onto your land. You are not allowed to take any action to prevent this. One of the problems in modern built-up areas is that by building garden walls or raised patios, the flow of water is stopped and can then cause flooding."


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## sydthebeat (1 Oct 2007)

the issue here is not the restriction of 'natural water' but actually 'forced flooding'....


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## aircobra19 (1 Oct 2007)

Could you dig a short shallow trench along this gravel bed and put in some waterproof shuttering? This will deflect at least some of the water back onto your neighbour. Ultimately it will find its way back into your garden, but it might create a bit a mess in theirs too. A trench would also channel the water away from the foundations. Its really a problem for the council to sort out though isn't it. Because it essentially a water leak. Though deliberate. Is this not criminal damage though?


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## Caveat (1 Oct 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> Is this not criminal damage though?


 
Would have thought so - but you would still have to provide some sort of indication that it is not merely an accident?


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## Teabag (1 Oct 2007)

RuthS said:


> This sounds unbelievable, I know - but it's true ... our next-door neighbours, 'till recently, fairly normal people, are actively flooding the foundations of the extension we're currently building.  WHAT CAN WE DO???They are shoving a hose pipe into a gravel bed on their side of the garden wall and leaving the tap run and run and run.  Our garden is lower than theirs and is flooding again and again and again.  The builders are going spare!  They've tested the water and have confirmed that it's treated, tap water, not rain water.  They called the Council in, who also took a water sample, and have siad they'll meter next-door's water.  The Council guy called to the house ref a 'suspected water leak out the back', but the neighbour told him he didn't know what he was talking about, and closed the door on his face,When we called to see the house last night, it was going on again, hosepipe jammed into wet gravel on their side of the wall - our site, dry on Friday afternoon was fill or water, and the 'lady' of the house was pottering about in her kitchen.  (She's a solicitor, by the way!!).We called to the police station on the way home.  They said they'd never heard the like - and told us to talk to the Council ....  What's the best thing for us to do??(Neighbours objected to the PP, by the way, and appealed to ABP - lost out both times - but this is ridiculous!)




When they objected to your planning - did they maintain that you were trying to build your house in ground liable for flooding or foundation too close to water table ? Is there water near your site (river, lake, drain) ?

If it were me, I would be 'immersing' myself in CSI Miami/Vegas/NY and then planning the perfect murder cos that is scandalous behaviour.

But the Law Society recommendation sounds good too.


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## Thrifty1 (1 Oct 2007)

*What the Society Cannot Do*

Interfere with court proceedings to have a decision of a court overturned;
Deal with complaints about Gardai, Barristers, Court Officials, Judges etc;
Deal with complaints, particularly complaints of negligence, where legal action is a more appropriate remedy;
Except in exceptional circumstances deal with complaints about a solicitor where the complainant is not the client of that solicitor. If you are complaining about the behaviour of a solicitor who is acting for someone on the other side of a case or transaction the Society will require your solicitor to endorse the complaint;
*Deal with a complaint which does not relate to the professional services provided by a solicitor; *
Deal with a complaint of excessive fees arising out of a bill which issued more than five years ago;
Deal with complaints of inadequate professional services which were provided more than five years ago;
Deal with a complaint which is based on how your solicitor presented your case in court.
Law society will not interfere in private matters.

Perhaps the *Rule in Rylands and Fletcher* may be of use, this deals with the escape of water onto a neighbours lands.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands_v._Fletcher


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## z103 (1 Oct 2007)

Maybe when you are switching off your water at the mains (for your building work) you could accidently switch their water off instead.
They'll turn it back on, but you can inadvertantly switch it off again. Smear paste on the handle as well.


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## sydthebeat (1 Oct 2007)

is the house semi detached.... because im thinking kick ass subwhoofers turned to face their bedroom party wall with some mind numbing techno crap on repeat.......


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## Bob the slob (1 Oct 2007)

Have you called into them and asked them to remove the hose from the ground? I would try that approach at the least and tell them you are force flooding my property.  Tell her you will go to a national paper.  No solicitor will want to be seen doing such childish things.  worth a shot.


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## johnnyg (1 Oct 2007)

If i were you i would infrom your neighbour asap that she is "accindently" flooding your foundations when she is leaving the water tap on and if she persists on leaving it on that you are recording everything that she is doing and you will be going to your solicitor and the small claims court for damages. I think from a legal point of view, it has to be hightlighted to the offender what she is doing and if she fails to act on what you have told her she then would be causing malicious damage if she continues to leave her tap on knowing the effects its having on your side of the fence..i think the time for being polite and trying not to fall out with your neighbours is well and truely gone..best of luck


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## Caveat (1 Oct 2007)

johnnyg said:


> If i were you i would infrom your neighbour asap that she is "accindently" flooding your foundations when she is leaving the water tap on and if she persists on leaving it on that you are recording everything that she is doing


 
I think this is a very good point.

If the offender isn't given notice of this it could come back to haunt you. 
As it stands, the door is always open to pleading ignorance/accident etc.


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## ludermor (1 Oct 2007)

But what is she doing wrong, in a legal sense?
I think this is been blown out of proportion, it is extremly childish but its not the worse thing the builder will come accross. The water can just be pumped away


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## Tulach (1 Oct 2007)

Best thing to is dig a large soak hole and use it to let the water drain off that will solve the problem for the moment and you can use it for run off water from the roof, so it has two uses one to allow you to continue the build and two use it as a soak hole.


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## Cork Guy (1 Oct 2007)

I think that you should take a 2 pronged approach namely:

1. Have your solicitor contact your neighbour.  They may know each other from professional dealings and there may well be an embarassment factor for her to be seen to act in such a childish manner.  Even if this is not the case, a "friendly" call may be appropriate.This appears to be sneaky and somebody who acts in this manner may not want their behaviour held up to scrutiny.  If this does not work then it is still atrespass to your property and your solicitor will know how to deal with it.

2. Try to find an engineering solution (pumps etc.)

Even if you decide not to sue, you need to take on your neighbour head on - you need to let them know that they cannot walk all over you or this may only be the start.

Cork Boy


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## Joe Nonety (1 Oct 2007)

I agree with the earlier post. Go over to their house accompanied and simply say that there's large quantities of water coming from their garden into yours.


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## RuthS (1 Oct 2007)

God you're great - thanks for the advice.

The builders are being quite sensible about all this - they're planning the 'engineering solution' of a trench, soak holes etc, but say that this will only work up to a point and if the neighbours just leave the tap on for 3 years, that nothing'll accommodate this.  They've also got the Council to meter the water going in to the neighbours' so hopefully they'll be able to monitr excessive usage - and maybe cut it off?  It's expensive, treated water, and we're all paying for this waste.

Is there any criminal act here, do you know, as I feel a civil legal route will be costly, stressful and futile?  Yet, that Gardai didn't seem that interested when we visited them last night.


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## z109 (1 Oct 2007)

The local government sanitaries act 1962 may help:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1962/en/act/pub/0026/index.html
Under section 8 the council should be able to require them to use the sewer for their effluent water (I know it is tap water, but once you take it out of the pipe, it is waste):
*8.*—(1) Where—

 (_a_) a sanitary authority have provided a public sewerage system, and

 (_b_) in the opinion of the authority, any premises in the district of the authority are—

 (i) not drained in a satisfactory manner, and

 (ii) capable of being served by the sewerage system by means of a connection not exceeding one hundred feet in length,

 the authority may serve on the owner of the premises a notice requiring the execution within a specified period of specified works for the purpose of securing the service of the premises by the public sewerage system.


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## wheels (2 Oct 2007)

TBH it's great the council are taking an interest. Ones first thought would be that they wouldn't want to be bothered.


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## Bronte (2 Oct 2007)

Don't do anything illegal.  I think you need to get the garda to do more than refer you to the council, which is just passing the buck.  Make an official complaint about the malicious damage the neighbours are doing and the gardai have to respond surely.  The very least the gardai can do is come out and have a look.


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## Bob the slob (2 Oct 2007)

Before you go to anybody, go and make your neighbour aware what they are doing.  Explain what is happening.  If they dont seem bothered ask one of them to come over and see it and ask for an explanation of why the hose is stuck in the ground.  Take it from there then.


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## Marathon Man (2 Oct 2007)

You MUST get evidence of this. Get video and photo evidence. This is malicious damage with intent. You are entitled collect evidence to this type of behaviour. Make sure you do NOT record anything going on INSIDE her house. 

Your neighbour is a solicitor. She CANNOT plead ignorance, not that is a legal defence anyway. BTW, she has already gone the legal route and lost on both occasions - planning objection and appeal to an Bord Planala, so she is trying to circumvent the process.

Once you have the video/photo evidence, notify the Council water dept. that this is happening and ask for an inspector to visit BOTH properties, yours first.

Get your builder to bill for everything arising from the flooding, damage to materials, rework, lost time etc. Send her a copy of the bill, seeking recompence. If the bill isn't too high, you might be able to take a small claims court case - not sure if it will take on a case against a third party(?? Anyone).

Get your builder to dig a soak hole and pump out from it - this will go a long way towards alleviating the flooding problem - AND bill 'yer woman' for the pump hire and extra work.

Do NOT get involved in 'tit-for-tat' nuisance games, e.g. noise etc - drags YOU down to her level and WILL go against you if you have to go down the legal route - and you may have to do that, in spite of everything.

This is Bullying. And I hate bullying...stand up to her. 

FWIW, given that she objected to the planning and appealed - and lost both, armed with video/photo evidence, a statement from your builder, a written compaint to the council and complaint to the Gardai, I think that YOUR solicitor would have a field day with her. She has NOT got a leg to stand on - so kick them out from under her! TODAY!

btw, write EVERYTHING down!


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## MugsGame (2 Oct 2007)

Small claims court only deals with disputes between consumers and businesses.

Is there a residents association? Are there other neighbours on the road? I would be tempted to write to the next two houses on either side of you (including the problem neighbour and their other neighbour) notifying them that
- you have significant "unexplained flooding" in your garden
- the council have already been out to inspect 
- you are wondering if anyone else is experiencing same
- you are concerned about it undermining the foundations of separating walls, possibly making them unsafe
- you are also concerned about environmental impact of water loss

Treating this as a collective neighbourhood problem might pressurise your problem neighbour to back off. However, don't accuse her of anything in your letter!


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## dicey_reilly (2 Oct 2007)

Hmmmm what would Victor Meldrew do?

Probably wait until late at night (if they leave the hose running overnight) - take the business end of the hose and feed it through the neighbours letterbox/car window/downstairs window etc.

This would definitely be against the law so do not do this 
_(without gloves and a mask)_

 
Seriously – engage a good solicitor and put this bully back in her box.

Good luck with it

Dicey


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## Caveat (2 Oct 2007)

I think marathon man above has given the most comprehensive advice so far.  I would certainly make a point of politely confronting the neighbour first though, officially bringing your concerns to her attention.


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## ney001 (2 Oct 2007)

She's a solicitor, what does her husband do?, are they out of the house during the day - If she leaves the hose on during the day when she's at work why not ring her in work and tell her that she appears to have left her hose on and you have not option but to turn the water off at the mains.  - make a record of each and every call that you make to her!.  Keep a diary of all the times that the hose is left on - this will match up with the councils records of high usage.  Bill her for all damage caused including damage to shrubs, plants etc

Alternatively long pole with nail in the end - keep making little holes in the hose when they are not there - make their own garden nice and soggy without trespassing.

Record Everything


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## dicey_reilly (2 Oct 2007)

ney001 said:


> Alternatively long pole with nail in the end - keep making little holes in the hose when they are not there - make their own garden nice and soggy without trespassing.
> 
> Record Everything


 
Except the bit with the nail on the pole........


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## swordshead (2 Oct 2007)

Im fascinated with this thread..what a dilemma!!  If theyre resorting to tactics like this at the foundation stage what else are they likely to do when the rest of construction happens! I know its not a good idea to resort to similar tactics (subwoofer thing and all that) but if they wont listen to reason and the guards arent listening..id be thinking up some pretty annoying things to do to them too...sometimes being nice gets u nowhere!


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## CubicYard1 (2 Oct 2007)

Teabag said:


> When they objected to your planning - did they maintain that you were trying to build your house in ground liable for flooding or foundation too close to water table ? Is there water near your site (river, lake, drain) ?
> 
> If it were me, I would be 'immersing' myself in CSI Miami/Vegas/NY and then planning the perfect murder cos that is scandalous behaviour.
> 
> But the Law Society recommendation sounds good too.


 
Jaysus I'd murder her too ! I'd be fuming !!
What county are you in as a matter of interest ?


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## runner (2 Oct 2007)

This could be the next 'flood' Tribunal!
Unbelievable.


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## BlueSpud (2 Oct 2007)

runner said:


> This could be the next 'flood' Tribunal!


Pure mule


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## RuthS (22 Oct 2007)

Update - the Council ended up cutting thier water off and fined them for wasting water (about a week ago).  They claimed to have only been gardening (!) and had "NO IDEA" what was going on ... despite using about 10 times a household's worth of water every day!  

Anyway, the Council got them to say it'd not happen again ... and it hasn't yet.  

Builders proceeding apace.  BUT ... builders / engineer now want to excavate through the foundations / house to install a fancy all-singing / all-dancing drainiage system out to the mains drain at the front, on the road - at our expense - in case the Crazy Neighbours decide to do it again at some stage in the future.

They've not given us a price for this yet, but I really don't think we should have to pay for expensive work to protect against our neighbours' possible future illegal act - should they chose to put their tap on full belt again.

Or would we be better off just doing that drainage...?

But the Crazys could try something else next..?

What to do ... ?


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## Sue Ellen (22 Oct 2007)

RuthS said:


> Or would we be better off just doing that drainage...?



Depends on price really and if you can afford it.


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## Fat Tony (23 Oct 2007)

RuthS said:


> Update - the Council ended up cutting thier water off and fined them for wasting water (about a week ago)... ?


Good to hear a bit of justice for those in the right, well done!


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## gillarosa (23 Oct 2007)

RuthS said:


> Update -
> Builders proceeding apace. BUT ... builders / engineer now want to excavate through the foundations / house to install a fancy all-singing / all-dancing drainiage system out to the mains drain at the front, on the road - at our expense - in case the Crazy Neighbours decide to do it again at some stage in the future.


 
Congratulations on thwarting the Crazies, I imagine (and hope) that the action taken by the Council will have put a stop to them attempting further flooding action, there is after all now an official repremand for their actions even if they have not admitted it was malicious. Best of luck with the remainder of the build.


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## davidoco (23 Oct 2007)

RuthS said:


> ... builders / engineer now want to excavate through the foundations / house to install a fancy all-singing / all-dancing drainiage system out to the mains drain at the front, on the road - at our expense - in case the Crazy Neighbours decide to do it again at some stage in the future.
> 
> They've not given us a price for this yet


 
A pump with a float valve in a sump in the floor with a pipe to your drain isn't going to cost the earth, unless of course you live in south County Dublin.


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## RuthS (23 Oct 2007)

I think the reason it's going to be expensive is that the builders say they'd have to excavate through the foundations to bring a drain out to the front - there is a drain at the back, but it's for rain water over spill etc - it's not big.  Also, our back is lower than our front, so gravity's going against us.

He's not given us a quote yet, but does mutter about it being expensive.  I'm half thinking he's going to look to make back on this drain job what he's lost to date so far as a result of their flooding actions, and I don't want to pay a high price for a piece of work that we mightn't need / shouldn't need if the neighbours behave themselves ...


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## Ceist Beag (23 Oct 2007)

Maybe I'm being a bit naive here but reading this the first thing that I wondered was, have you approached your neighbour at all since this started happening? Is it at all possible that they genuinely did not realise they were flooding your foundations? Maybe you have and the response you got led you to the conclusion it was deliberate but if not is it not fair to at least give them a chance to explain themselves? It could save you a lot of money in the long term.


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## shay24 (29 Aug 2008)

RuthS said:


> This sounds unbelievable, I know - but it's true ... our next-door neighbours, 'till recently, fairly normal people, are actively flooding the foundations of the extension we're currently building. WHAT CAN WE DO???They are shoving a hose pipe into a gravel bed on their side of the garden wall and leaving the tap run and run and run. Our garden is lower than theirs and is flooding again and again and again. The builders are going spare! They've tested the water and have confirmed that it's treated, tap water, not rain water. They called the Council in, who also took a water sample, and have siad they'll meter next-door's water. The Council guy called to the house ref a 'suspected water leak out the back', but the neighbour told him he didn't know what he was talking about, and closed the door on his face,When we called to see the house last night, it was going on again, hosepipe jammed into wet gravel on their side of the wall - our site, dry on Friday afternoon was fill or water, and the 'lady' of the house was pottering about in her kitchen. (She's a solicitor, by the way!!).We called to the police station on the way home. They said they'd never heard the like - and told us to talk to the Council .... What's the best thing for us to do??(Neighbours objected to the PP, by the way, and appealed to ABP - lost out both times - but this is ridiculous!)



If your looking for a quick solution just simply turn your neighbor stopcock off early in the mornin but over tighten it .ie really really tight so it can not be reopenened .it would take 2 days for council to call and reinsate stopcock with would probably be enough time for your builder to have foundation done or a membrain of some sort put in .I have done this before thats how i know it will work


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## Pee (30 Aug 2008)

shay24 said:


> If your looking for *a quick solution* just simply turn your neighbor stopcock off early in the mornin but over tighten it .ie really really tight so it can not be reopenened .it would take 2 days for council to call and reinsate stopcock with would probably be enough time for your builder to have foundation done or a membrain of some sort put in .I have done this before thats how i know it will work


 
Quick solution, the post was started almost 12 months ago....I should hope the OP has the work completed by now not still trying to sort out the foundation.


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## DavyJones (31 Aug 2008)

MOB said:


> This does seem crazy.  Get your solicitor on the job for goodness sake.  Don't delay.  And don't waste time with lots of letters - one warning letter and then straight to court.  Tell your solicitor not to send the warning letter until the court proceedings are already drafted and ready to go- if you say that proceedings will issue in seven days, you absolutely must carry out the threat, so make sure thay are ready to go before that first letter.  This will cost you more, but in these situations it is the right way to go.
> 
> It may be that the legal proceedings would be best coming from your builder - as the nuisance created by your neighbours is actually impacting on him in the performance of his contract.  Your solicitor and barrister will be better able to advise.




MOB, I like your style


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## tosullivan (1 Sep 2008)

dicey_reilly said:


> Hmmmm what would Victor Meldrew do?
> 
> Probably wait until late at night (if they leave the hose running overnight) - take the business end of the hose and feed it through the neighbours letterbox/car window/downstairs window etc.


 That's what I was thinking......nyuk nyuk


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## jhegarty (1 Sep 2008)

shay24 said:


> If your looking for a quick solution just simply turn your neighbor stopcock off early in the mornin but over tighten it .ie really really tight so it can not be reopenened .it would take 2 days for council to call and reinsate stopcock with would probably be enough time for your builder to have foundation done or a membrain of some sort put in .I have done this before thats how i know it will work




well the council sorted out the problem 12 months ago.... so it may be overkill to do anything now


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## leex (2 Sep 2008)

More fun...

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=70041


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