# Builder refuses to fix sound issue problem



## Nice Day (30 Jan 2008)

Hi there..

We moved into our home on a medium sized development on the southside last year. It is a "timber framed" duplex
with two apartments above.. 
When we moved in we could here the couple TWO floors UP!! As nobody had been living in the apartment above we brought it to the attention of the builder hoping they could fix the problem.
Instead, they organised a sound test to be done. The week of the sound test being done there was a lot of activity being carried out above us. A friend who works on the site told us they were putting down two layers of 3mm sound proofing.

Apparently, a method used to pass a sound test if floor construction is not up to scratch and there is a complaint.
The results of the sound test came back which it passed.

 We explained to the builder that the results are irrelevant as we can still hear the same noise and asked why layers of soundproofing were installed AFTER we complained.. He said it was used in all the development and even if it was not there it would have still passed the test. We later found out that it was NOT used in all the development and it would have likely failed if the two layers were not there.

The apartment above is still empty and we're anxious to get things sorted before somebody moves in. We recently heard people viewing the apartment above and the sound was twice as bad..

This is where we run into problems.. 
The builder is covered by the sound test passing and he refuses to entertain the issue yet we can hear every door bang, footstep, water passing through the waste pipes etc..

After months of research, there does not seem to be a major solution to fix the problem. We would not have bought here if we knew such a problem would arise. On enquiring on the development, the builder stated that they were built to a high spec and when we asked about the sound insulation regarding the apartments above, they said it was very well constructed and we would not hear our neighbours.

We have been totally shafted into paying out a lot of money and feel like going to court on the issue. They have sold us a faulty home after stating it was "built to high spec" etc.. 
The easy way would be to move but how can we put our home on the market and pass the problem onto somebody else.. We wouldn't do it.

If people buy a faulty product such as a car, couch or computer and within such a short space of time they are not up to what they are suppose to do, they are entitled to a refund.. Why should it be any different to a "HOME?"

Any information regarding this issue, legal etc would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks for reading


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

Nice Day said:


> Any information regarding this issue, legal etc would be greatly appreciated...


Have you asked your solicitor for advice? If so what did they say?


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## kkelliher (30 Jan 2008)

I feel there is no way this could have passed the sound test if its as bad as it sounds. You should get a sound test done yourself and pass the details onto your solicitor.

Floor Soundproofing (regupol or similar recycled 3mm rubber or cork) is mandatory in all apartments where there is an apartment below.

There have been alot of builders who have had to reduild partitions etc as they are not up to regulations. This is a problem that the wonderful timber frame people dont mention on their adverts.

I would get a test done and consult your solicitor if its not up to regulations.


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## Nice Day (30 Jan 2008)

We were thinking of getting a sound test done but if it passes due to two layers of 3mm totalling 6mm being down the builders win. 

Speaking with our solicitor later today.
Apparently each layer of  sound proofing reduces the decibel ratio by approx 20db. The test results should be under 65db. Ours was just under. 
Therefore, remove the layers, it fails!!

Are builders obliged within regs to pass a test without any type of sound proofing being laid above the boards? 

Its just a shame that, some electronic gadgets result dictates how we're treated yet common sense should prevail as the noise is there to be heard.
They basically covered over the problem to cover themselves legally.

I'd advise anyone buying a timber framed home with an apartment above to get it sound tested during your snag. It will be money well spent if it fails. Also, have your snagger walk around upstairs, close doors, flush toilets etc while you are beneath..


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## Leo (30 Jan 2008)

Nice Day said:


> Are builders obliged within regs to pass a test without any type of sound proofing being laid above the boards?


 
Are you saying the sound proofing was a temporary measure and removed after the test? 
Leo


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## davidoco (30 Jan 2008)

You can run test after test, sue him, etc etc but it sounds like you just want it fixed. Find out the construction method used in the dividing floor and consult the insulation web sites. Rock wool is a good one. See what the construction method gives in terms of db and have someone look at the options open to you to improve the level of sound insulation.


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## BountyHunter (30 Jan 2008)

Hi OP,

  Sorry to hear about your situation. Just a quick point you may want to look into, sound levels i.e db level is not a linear scale, what I mean is, if you take for example temperature 18 degrees c is just a little hotter that 17 drgrees c. But with sound level there would be a noticable differance even between 18 and 17db.
If as you say the builder just about passed the sound test you may want to check the calibration of the equipment he used? Or indeed get your own test done with calibrated equipment?

BountyHunter.


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## Sue Ellen (30 Jan 2008)

A read through some of these previous threads with a reference to  might give some advice.  This post might be useful also.


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## Nice Day (31 Jan 2008)

> If as you say the builder just about passed the sound test you may want to check the calibration of the equipment he used? Or indeed get your own test done with calibrated equipment?


What do you mean by this..? 
In a situation like this with little knowledge of how such gizmos work its hard to know whos telling the truth..
Our solicitor told us to get an engineers report. If its a case they have breached compliance then it can go to arbitration.
We're thinking of getting another sound test done..  Can the results be calculated as if the two layers of sound proofing were not there.. If so, and its true that the test should pass without external sound proofing, they're in breach..?
Thanks all


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## Gautama (31 Jan 2008)

_Better post this one again, self-censored in bold..._

Isn't this par for the course with flats? Especially those built during the Tiger years? I've always heard these type stories.
A guy I worked with bought a flat in *Inchicore*. He said he could tell when it was 11pm each night... he'd hear the guy upstairs *urinating* before bed.
He said there was one evening the same guy was having a huge argument with his girlfriend. Roaring and shouting and doors banging. Then silence for a few hours.
Then he heard them making-up...


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## BountyHunter (31 Jan 2008)

Hi Nice Day,



Nice Day said:


> What do you mean by this..?
> In a situation like this with little knowledge of how such gizmos work its hard to know whos telling the truth..
> Our solicitor told us to get an engineers report. If its a case they have breached compliance then it can go to arbitration.
> We're thinking of getting another sound test done.. Can the results be calculated as if the two layers of sound proofing were not there.. If so, and its true that the test should pass without external sound proofing, they're in breach..?
> Thanks all


 
Basically with any instrument which measures sound/noise/speed/hardness/electrical signals whatever.. it needs to be calibrated to ensure the readings taken are in fact true. Take for example speed detectors the police use, they need to be calibrated to ensure people are not getting done for speeding, you get the picture... The normal practice is that they are calibrated in a lab under controlled conditions and then there is a calibration certificate attached to the piece of equipment.

BountyHunter.


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## Nice Day (1 Feb 2008)

Thanks again for your info..

After doing some research through this website and various others, I see a few interesting points such as..



> you need to pack the rockwool between the studs and noggins before you fix the plasterboard.





> a thoroughly packed layer of insulation between timber studs and boarded off with ordinary 12.5mm plasterboard usually does the job. However you must be thorough with the packing around perimeter of wall i.e along ceiling wall joints, along floor wall joints and wall - wall joints at the sides.
> 
> Warning
> Putting more layers against a wall exacerbates a problem . Ive seen it in many houses. The problem stems from the air cavities gaps behind plasterboard where sound waves swirl around accumulate and ultimately amplify sound. so strip back the exisiting construction and get that packing in !


Does this breach building regs if rockwool is not fitted.. as when I installed spots in the ceiling there was no rockwool anywhere between our ceiling and the floor from apartment above.

I was thinking of having another sound test done but if its a case they have not complied with building regs am I as well to get DCC building control to serve an enforcement letter in order for the builder to fix the problem, or an engineers report to prove they have not complied, then take the report back to our solicitor..

Many thanks


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