# John Waters:Alcohol is a highly effective instrument of artificial social compliance.



## DerKaiser (13 Feb 2012)

[broken link removed]

_This is really why politicians don’t want to move on the national drink problem. When foreigners ask me to explain why the Irish people have not revolted against the incomprehensible and unjust burdens being placed on them, I tell them to look at the drinking statistics. Alcohol is functioning as a highly effective instrument of artificial social cohesion. It is the main reason why people are not marching in the streets or pulling the gates of Government Buildings off their hinges._

What an insult. 

This lunatic is running around telling everyone the Irish have been sedated by the government by cheap alcohol. Is this a fair assessment? 

You try to be mature and not burn the place down everytime the government introduces austerity measures and you have loose cannons like this fella adding insult to injury by saying the only reason we're not revolting is because we're too wasted to notice or even care!

The average Irish person has significantly cut back on socialising since the recession began. We're keeping our heads down, working harder and, as I've said already, trying to be mature and work our way out of the mess.

This guy is one of a growing bunch of idiots with a public forum trying to generate anarchy. Himself, Dunphy, Mick Wallace, Sinn Fein, Socialist Worker Party, etc are all undermining the efforts being made to keep the place going by the ordinary citizens. They are willing us to into some kind of ideological but ultimately self destructive state of revolt.

Is anyone else getting tired of it?


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## TarfHead (13 Feb 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> Is this a fair assessment?


 
No


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## Sunny (13 Feb 2012)

Stopped listening to that guy a long time ago....


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## T McGibney (13 Feb 2012)

Calling people 'lunatics' and 'idiots' is hardly conductive to reasonable debate either.


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## blueband (13 Feb 2012)

its got noting to do with drink, we have just lost the fire our fore farthers had, the knew how to stand up and fight for their rights, we just roll over and take everything thats dished out at us.
'the fighting irish'....... thats a laugh.
should be the frightened irish!


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## dereko1969 (13 Feb 2012)

Typical of John Waters that he uses statistics from 4 years ago to push his agenda, he neglects the statistics from 2011 that show a marked decline in alcohol sales.

He's an idiot with nothing useful to add to any debate, how he keeps his job is beyond me.


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## The_Banker (13 Feb 2012)

I thought religion was the opium of the masses?


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## Thirsty (13 Feb 2012)

He's right in regards to his assertions on alcohol marketing and sales however.

Scotland has banned all promotions on alcohol, 'happy hour' '2 for 1' etc., are now all illegal.

In Sweden, only low alcohol beer can be bought in the supermarkets.  All other drinks have to be purchased in government controlled shops which only open normal business hours and also prohibits promotions.  Finland has something similar if I recall.

Perhaps it's time we accepted that we cannot continue as we are?


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## T McGibney (13 Feb 2012)

Thirsty said:


> Perhaps it's time we accepted that we cannot continue as we are?



If you never see any heavy drinking in Scotland, then you're clearly not there too often.


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## DerKaiser (13 Feb 2012)

Thirsty said:


> Scotland has banned all promotions on alcohol, 'happy hour' '2 for 1' etc., are now all illegal


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/happy-hour-banned-in-new-crackdown-on-drunkards-208975.html


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## Bronte (14 Feb 2012)

There is a serious serious problem with alcohol in Irish society and John Waters of all people knows about it.  He sees it.  Others do not.  

Roisin Shorthall will do nothing about it.  No Irish government will do anything about it.  Nobody ever has.  All my lifetime they've ever done is talk about it.  I also have worked in the pub trade and have people in that business.   I've also seen the results of alcohol on Irish emigrant communities particularly in London.  

I cannot myself understand the inertia of the Irish people, and I think John Water, who I wouldn't often agree with is right.


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## DerKaiser (14 Feb 2012)

Bronte said:


> There is a serious serious problem with alcohol in Irish society and John Waters of all people knows about it. He sees it. Others do not.


 
I don't think anyone will argue that there's no alcohol problem. 

I don't think anyone could even argue we don't have a relatively serious alcohol problem.  Though the extent to how bad it is often overplayed - just look at our position for consumption of spirits in the linked table:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption


What I can't agree with is the statement:

_"The Irish have been sedated by the government by cheap alcohol"_

Alcohol consumption has demonstrably fallen since the recession began.

Alcohol consumption peaked in 2001:
http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/2009/20091201.html

Here is the link to the 17% surge from 1995 to 2007:
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011660.shtml

It immediately fell 6% in 2008 at the start of the recession
[broken link removed]

In total there has been a 17% decline since 2001:


Here are excise rates (Annex 4 final page), compared to other countries:
[broken link removed]

With excise duties amongst the highest relative to other european countries and dramatically declining alcohol consumption since 2001, we have most certainly not been sedated with cheap alcohol by the government to distract us from the mismanagement of the country.

We have been sedated by the stick in some cases (fear of losing our homes) and the carrot in other cases (no hits to pensions, the croke park deal & relatively untouched social welfare payouts).


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## cork (14 Feb 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> This guy is one of a growing bunch of idiots with a public forum trying to generate anarchy. Himself, Dunphy, Mick Wallace, Sinn Fein, Socialist Worker Party, etc are all undermining the efforts being made to keep the place going by the ordinary citizens. They are willing us to into some kind of ideological but ultimately self destructive state of revolt.
> 
> Is anyone else getting tired of it?



Why is the public airwaves being used as a platform for those offering dubious and un-challanged economic and social teorys?

What % of experts that have their own agendas?


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## One (14 Feb 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> _This is really why politicians don’t want to move on the national drink problem. When foreigners ask me to explain why the Irish people have not revolted against the incomprehensible and unjust burdens being placed on them, I tell them to look at the drinking statistics. Alcohol is functioning as a highly effective instrument of artificial social cohesion. It is the main reason why people are not marching in the streets or pulling the gates of Government Buildings off their hinges._
> 
> What an insult.
> 
> ...


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## Bronte (14 Feb 2012)

DerKaiser said:


> I don't think anyone will argue that there's no alcohol problem.
> 
> I don't think anyone could even argue we don't have a relatively serious alcohol problem. Though the extent to how bad it is often overplayed - just look at our position for consumption of spirits in the linked table:
> 
> ...


 
Not sure but I think as Irealand has the largest number of pioneers the statistics are actually worse than appears.


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## T McGibney (14 Feb 2012)

Bronte said:


> Not sure but I think as Irealand has the largest number of pioneers the statistics are actually worse than appears.



Really? The Pioneer TAA is on its knees in relation to membership - a large % of its professed membership nowadays are juveniles, and a substantial % of the remainder are OAP's. Teetotallers are a not unknown phenomenon in other countries either.


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## T McGibney (14 Feb 2012)

cork said:


> Why is the public airwaves being used as a platform for those offering dubious and un-challanged economic and social teorys?
> 
> What % of experts that have their own agendas?



Waters is not an expert. He is a commentator and opinion columnist. And he'd be the first to make that distinction.


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## Teatime (14 Feb 2012)

Coincidentally I was at a meeting last week where a French woman was giving out about the lack of support for Occupy Eyre Square people/camp and about the general apathy amongst the general Irish public after all that has happened. She said the French would march at the drop of a hat for something they considered unjust. She said the Irish just want to "drink pints or moan or both". I didn't know whether I agreed with her or not.

Is it enough as DerKaiser put it that.... "_The average Irish person has significantly cut back on socialising since the recession began. We're keeping our heads down, working harder and, as I've said already, trying to be mature and work our way out of the mess._"?


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## Thirsty (14 Feb 2012)

@TMcGibney - Where did I say that?


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## Sunny (14 Feb 2012)

So we are now beating ourselves up because we are not like the Greeks and out on the streets rioting? Where have the riots got Greece? Maybe other countries should start looking to us as an example.


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## DerKaiser (14 Feb 2012)

Sunny said:


> So we are now beating ourselves up because we are not like the Greeks and out on the streets rioting? Where have the riots got Greece? Maybe other countries should start looking to us as an example.



That pretty much sums up where I was going.


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## T McGibney (14 Feb 2012)

Thirsty said:


> @TMcGibney - Where did I say that?



  Sorry, I don't understand...?


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## blueband (15 Feb 2012)

Sunny said:


> So we are now beating ourselves up because we are not like the Greeks and out on the streets rioting? Where have the riots got Greece? Maybe other countries should start looking to us as an example.


indeed...im sure our german slavemasters hope other countries start looking to us as an example too.


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## Sunny (15 Feb 2012)

blueband said:


> indeed...im sure our german slavemasters hope other countries start looking to us as an example too.


 
Yawn. We are free to say to our German slavemasters that we don't want their hard earned taxpayers money.


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## ajapale (15 Feb 2012)

Topic Reminder:

John Waters: Alcohol is a highly effective instrument of artificial social compliance.


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