# Keeping you pin number secure



## nesbitt (6 Apr 2009)

I take all the usual precautions with my laser chip & pin card number ie. it is consigned to my memory & not written down anywhere. However I have noticed when making a purchase in shops (always busy where I live!) that I feel uncomfortable and compromised when keying in my pin number.

Example 1. I was purchasing groceries in busy supermarket and was busy packing up my trolley. Whilst I was doing this the customer in the queue behind me had moved right down to stand next to me practically breathing down my neck as I was asked to key in my number to the machine. I paused and stated politely (but with a bit of annoyance in my voice) that I needed some space to use the machine to pay my bill. They reluctantly moved back. 

Example 2. Another time recently 3 guys together were behind me in the queue and as I was finished packing up and asked to pay one guy moved around me and stood in what I would describe a good vantage point to view my pin as I keyed it in. I stated to the till operator that I did not feel I should key in my number but she ignored me and did not seem to want to handle the situation. So I opened my purse out flat and used it to further shield the keypad from view.... 

Anyone else feel that due to jostling or positioning of other customers it could be easy enough to get your pin number?


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## TheShark (6 Apr 2009)

Its far from an ideal situation.
Personally I always thought a six-digit PIN would be much more secure if for example you were prompted by the keypad to enter 3 or 4 of these digits , randomlly generated by the system , like 1st , 3rd , 6th / 2nd ,3rd ,5th and so on. That way your PIN cannot be compromised.


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## nesbitt (6 Apr 2009)

TheShark said:


> Its far from an ideal situation.
> Personally I always thought a six-digit PIN would be much more secure if for example you were prompted by the keypad to enter 3 or 4 of these digits , randomlly generated by the system , like 1st , 3rd , 6th / 2nd ,3rd ,5th and so on. That way your PIN cannot be compromised.


 
Yes that would at least lessen the threat of an onlooker knowing your full number at a glance...


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## noddy (7 Apr 2009)

Its far from an ideal situation.
Personally I always thought a six-digit PIN would be much more secure if for example you were prompted by the keypad to enter 3 or 4 of these digits , randomlly generated by the system , like 1st , 3rd , 6th / 2nd ,3rd ,5th and so on. That way your PIN cannot be compromised.                                     That is such a simple solution and a very good idea. very clever.


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## Bronte (7 Apr 2009)

Just cover the hand keying in the numbers with the other hand?  I use different fingers and move all my fingers to confuse people if I feel they are too close.


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## TheShark (7 Apr 2009)

Well the current chip and PIN is seriously flawed , its all too easy to compromise a PIN , there are better options available , probably the most secure and reasonably inexpensive to introduce would be a scan of the fingerprint on your index finger.


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## MrMan (7 Apr 2009)

TheShark said:


> Well the current chip and PIN is seriously flawed , its all too easy to compromise a PIN , there are better options available , probably the most secure and reasonably inexpensive to introduce would be a scan of the fingerprint on your index finger.


 
thats a whole new ball game


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## AgathaC (7 Apr 2009)

nesbitt said:


> I take all the usual precautions with my laser chip & pin card number ie. it is consigned to my memory & not written down anywhere. However I have noticed when making a purchase in shops (always busy where I live!) that I feel uncomfortable and compromised when keying in my pin number.
> 
> Example 1. I was purchasing groceries in busy supermarket and was busy packing up my trolley. Whilst I was doing this the customer in the queue behind me had moved right down to stand next to me practically breathing down my neck as I was asked to key in my number to the machine. I paused and stated politely (but with a bit of annoyance in my voice) that I needed some space to use the machine to pay my bill. They reluctantly moved back.
> 
> ...


I agree, I have been in similar situations. Why do people feel the need to stand so near anyway in a supermarket queue?? It drives me insane. I always shield the pad as best I can while keying the PIN. Apart from the fraud aspect, whatever happened to personal space...


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## Towger (7 Apr 2009)

TheShark said:


> probably the most secure and reasonably inexpensive to introduce would be a scan of the fingerprint on your index finger.



They can be reproduced with Super Glue and Jelly Babies or worse still you don't want crazed druggies chopping off peoples fingers.


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## Bronte (7 Apr 2009)

Towger said:


> They can be reproduced with Super Glue and Jelly Babies


  Can you elaborate?


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## Towger (7 Apr 2009)

Bronte said:


> Can you elaborate?



*[broken link removed] *


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## nesbitt (7 Apr 2009)

AgathaC said:


> I agree, I have been in similar situations. Why do people feel the need to stand so near anyway in a supermarket queue?? It drives me insane. I always shield the pad as best I can while keying the PIN. Apart from the fraud aspect, whatever happened to personal space...


 
It is in the supermarket that I feel most compromised really.  Probably due to layout of till and pack up area.  I will just continue to shield the keypad with opened out purse/wallet. 

Just a bit spooked in general when I read about Bank's attitude to fraud/theft.


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## MandaC (12 Apr 2009)

A woman was literally up on my back last week as I tried to get through the checkout.  I dont think she was trying to get my pin number in any way shape or form just impatient.  I asked her if she was looking for a jockey back (in a half joking way)  She knew I was not messing and went back behind her shopping trolley.  People are just so rude.


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## nesbitt (13 Apr 2009)

MandaC said:


> A woman was literally up on my back last week as I tried to get through the checkout. I dont think she was trying to get my pin number in any way shape or form just impatient. I asked her if she was looking for a jockey back (in a half joking way) She knew I was not messing and went back behind her shopping trolley. People are just so rude.


 
Fair play to you .  However whilst I agree that some folks just bulldoze you in some hope that you will move on more quickly, but on some occasions I am aware that other customers know exactly that they are compromising you when you are paying and keying in your pin number.


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## Sue Ellen (13 Apr 2009)

I find the impatience to pack your messages shown by both assistant and following shopper puts pressure on to possibly leave card unattended while it is processing payment.  This is the part that really annoys me.  It would be quite easy for someone to take the card out of the machine also while you are distracted with the packing.


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## nesbitt (13 Apr 2009)

Sue Ellen said:


> I find the impatience to pack your messages shown by both assistant and following shopper puts pressure on to possibly leave card unattended while it is processing payment. This is the part that really annoys me. It would be quite easy for someone to take the card out of the machine also while you are distracted with the packing.


 
Yes indeed, that is another pressure you can feel.  However I pack up briskly and do not organise payment until I am finished doing so and can focus on my transaction fully.    

I am acutely aware of another post on AAM where poster appears to have had card skimmed in supermarket and this as I said earlier really spooked me.  

At this stage I may just withdraw set amount for grocery/personal care each week in cash and work from that and see how I get on.....


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## so-crates (14 Apr 2009)

just don't forget to shield the pad when typing in your pin at the ATM ....


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## nesbitt (14 Apr 2009)

I have not withdrawn cash at at ATM in over two years.... 

I will go to the bank or get 'cash back' in a retailer such as M&S.


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## roker (16 Apr 2009)

I do not understand why people use their cards for small amounts; it makes it difficult when you check your statement because your memory will always fail you if you have a lot of transaction on your statement. I personally withdraw large sums from the ATM and pay by cash.


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## bond-007 (17 Apr 2009)

I was in a Supervalu and went to pay with my card. The person took my card to insert it in the chip and pin device. She then asked me for my PIN. She wanted to key it in herself!


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## nesbitt (17 Apr 2009)

Your kidding surely....


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## bond-007 (17 Apr 2009)

I kid you not.


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## TheShark (17 Apr 2009)

bond-007 said:


> I kid you not.


Ha Ha Ha......I believe you bond-007 , only last weekend I was getting petrol after midnight at a 24hr filling station. Lady ahead of me at the hatch asked assistant could she make a withdrawal from the instore ATM inside , assistant told her as it was after midnight he was not allowed to open the door but he would do the transaction for her , she passed through her ATM card and shouted her PIN through the hatch to the assistant , who shouted it back to confirm. Common practice apparently. At least four people in that queue now know that ladys PIN.


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## bond-007 (18 Apr 2009)

The mind boggles.


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