# Ulster Bank Introducing Transactions Fees



## PolkaDot (12 Feb 2019)

Charlie Weston reporting in the Indo today that UB are set to introduce transaction fees. 
https://www.independent.ie/business...ansaction-charges-for-customers-37807132.html

Monthly maintenance fee will reduce to €2. But there will now be transaction charges of:
- 20c for debit card, online transfers, direct debits
- 35c for ATM transactions
- 1c for Contactless
- 80c for branch/paper based transactions

This is very disappointing. I use my UB joint current account in conjunction with a UB savings account and do a lot of online transactions between the two. It is the most effective way for me to manage my household finances. 

I’ll probably look to move now to KBC. I have N26 and Revolut accounts too. Might just start using them more for the household finances.


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## Palerider (12 Feb 2019)

Agreed, I maintained the minimum €3000 cleared funds in my current account to avoid fees, now, even doing that will not avoid these new fees.

I’m a customer since the 80’s, time to shop around.


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## Connard (12 Feb 2019)

Palerider said:


> Agreed, I maintained the minimum €3000 cleared funds in my current account to avoid fees, now, even doing that will not avoid these new fees.
> 
> I’m a customer since the 80’s, time to shop around.



Keeping €3000 in the account will avoid the transaction fees but you'll still have to pay the €2 monthly maintenance fee.

I know they can be avoided but those transaction fees are absolutely obscene. It's almost as if they are trying to push people to N26 and Revolut instead of trying to actually compete with them.


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## PolkaDot (12 Feb 2019)

20c for an online or debit card transaction is outrageous.


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## Tintagel (12 Feb 2019)

My local branch has reduced the number of cashiers to one. The queue moves.....very......slowly.

They no longer buy or sell foreign currencies.

As I am over 65 I will not have to pay fees but I have not been happy with Ulster Bank for a long time now.


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## MrEarl (12 Feb 2019)

PolkaDot said:


> ...
> 
> Monthly maintenance fee will reduce to €2. But there will now be transaction charges of:
> - 20c for debit card, online transfers, direct debits
> ...




The way I see it, it'll be €4 pm for the account, including €2 worth of transactions.  

I tend to use a few standing orders and direct debits, but thereafter I use contact-less and google pay quite a lot, so I don't think my monthly cost will go much above €4 pm.  All I need to do is start training myself to get cashback a little more often, and this could even end up a little less than €4 pm.

Having seen what the PTSB are proposing, this still looks cheaper to me ... but it also signals that all the Banks have probably decided to increase their current account charges, much in the same way as they often seem to act much like a syndicate, when it comes to increasing or lowering their SVRs etc.


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## PinkLloyd (12 Feb 2019)

PolkaDot said:


> 20c for an online or debit card transaction is outrageous.


Agreed, particularly for online transactions and contactless.  How does that square up against government policy to encourage a cashless society?


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## MrEarl (13 Feb 2019)

PinkLloyd said:


> Agreed, particularly for online transactions and contactless.  How does that square up against government policy to encourage a cashless society?




I thought it was 1 cent for contactless ?


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## PinkLloyd (13 Feb 2019)

MrEarl said:


> I thought it was 1 cent for contactless ?


It is, but it's the principle I object to (_oh dear, talking about principles in relation to a bank .... what was I thinking_?).

One interesting question arises though: if I only use my Mastercard contactless, will that be subjected to the 1c fee?  What I've seen to date only refers to "Debit card purchases in Euro within SEPA, Apple Pay and Google Pay transactions".  Surely that contactless payment is processed by Mastercard, and not Ulster Bank?


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## PinkLloyd (13 Feb 2019)

Palerider said:


> I maintained the minimum €3000 cleared funds in my current account


It's really a question of whether you can get €24 or more interest in a year by putting that money elsewhere.

Up until this, it made sense to keep €3000 in the current acount as that way you could save more in fees (€48 p.a.) than you would have earned in interest in any of the UB instant access accounts.

That will no longer be the case, so there's no incentive to leave UB with all that free money for them to lend to others at exorbitant rates.


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## RedOnion (15 Feb 2019)

PinkLloyd said:


> only use my Mastercard contactless


Debit Card or Credit Card?


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## Ceist Beag (15 Feb 2019)

Presumably this does not impact on UFirst accounts?


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## PinkLloyd (15 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> Debit Card or Credit Card?


I currently don't use the UB (Visa) debit card at all, so I'm wondering whether my contactless payments using the (also UB) Mastercard credit card will also be penalised.  It's not clear from the wording I've seen.


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## RedOnion (15 Feb 2019)

PinkLloyd said:


> Mastercard credit card


Has nothing to do with your current account, or current account fees.


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## PinkLloyd (15 Feb 2019)

Ceist Beag said:


> Presumably this does not impact on UFirst accounts?


No, if you already hold one, but UFirst accounts are no longer available.  The details are here:
https://digital.ulsterbank.ie/personal/current-accounts/current-account-fees.html


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## Rym Shanley (16 Feb 2019)

Such outrage over a business charging for its services.


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## Palerider (16 Feb 2019)

Rym Shanley said:


> Such outrage over a business charging for its services.



This is a highly profitable Bank seeking to add further costs to customers that already hold minimum €3000 in their current account ( me ), we are easy targets until we find another option, tradition says that there is complacency with customers moving Bank, this charge is important for anybody interested in money management, hence the discussion.

The clue is in the name of this website.


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## PinkLloyd (16 Feb 2019)

Rym Shanley said:


> Such outrage over a business charging for its services.


.... a "business" that makes us offers we can't refuse.  Unless you've just arrived on this planet and have zero knowledge of what's been going on over the past ten years, surely you can understand the outrage?


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Feb 2019)

Rym Shanley said:


> Such outrage over a business charging for its services.



I don’t mind the outrage so much. 

But are people counting pennies when they should be watching the pounds?

I have often been asked to do a media piece on bank charges and I have always refused on the grounds that they are irrelevant in the grander scheme of things. I always ask the journalist “what mortgage rate are you  paying?”  And suggest that they write about that instead. 

But bank charges are easier to understand than percentages. 

Brendan


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## Monbretia (17 Feb 2019)

I kind of agree but I suppose it depends on how much you will be hit by!  I am stuck with UB and the current account as it is the one linked to my offset mortgage so to avail of the offsetting I must keep it.  I can keep the balance of 3k there so won't pay the transaction charges but will be caught for the €2 per month.   If I had to pay all the transactions charges it would be a good bit as a do a fair few online transfers, atm withdrawals etc.  Don't use the cheaper tap and pay ones at all.

Yesterday I switched electricity provider (which I do fairly regularly anyway) but there is a €50 cashback offer on that so at least that will more than pay for my first year's fees anyway.


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## Hurling Fan (17 Feb 2019)

We have 3 Ulster Bank accounts and an UB credit card so am afraid our fees are going to be high!  Do you think there will be a charge for transferring between UB accounts online?


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## Rym Shanley (17 Feb 2019)

The outrage is misguided. It's driven by the fact that people dislike banks.
But banks are entitled to charge for their services - do you expect other businesses to operate on zero profit margin or for free?

Changing banks and all the hassle that goes with it - moving salaries, direct debits, standing orders - all for the sake of saving a pretty small amount of money each month. Seems like a waste of time and energy - reminds me of people who drive miles out of their way to avoid paying a toll on the M50.

EDIT: Brendan - agree with your point re mortgage rates. Much more important.


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## Easeler (17 Feb 2019)

Ya its a great service to be honest getting paid in to bank and all DD paid who remembers going in to pub Friday evening's to change a check and 8 pints later to be told to come back again tomorrow evening  for the rest of it. Mad days in deed.


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## tomdublin (17 Feb 2019)

Banks that don't charge current account fees (e.g. almost all banks in the UK) don't operate on zero profit margins.   They take their clients' money in exchange for little or no interest and lend it for much higher rates of interest.  This spread is the core profit generator in retail banking.  Account maintenance fees, transaction charges and so on are just add-ons that banks get away with in quasi-cartel-like settings such as Ireland.  They tend to disappear once genuine competition sets in.


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## SlurrySlump (17 Feb 2019)

Does anyone know the department in Ulster Bank where I can send an email about my uFirst Gold Account. The uFirst Gold accounts/rewards are handled by Affinion. I want to bypass Affinion and go directly to Ulster Bank. Thanks


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## Palerider (17 Feb 2019)

SlurrySlump said:


> Does anyone know the department in Ulster Bank where I can send an email about my uFirst Gold Account. The uFirst Gold accounts/rewards are handled by Affinion. I want to bypass Affinion and go directly to Ulster Bank. Thanks



They have 24 hour chat on Anytime Banking, outsourced of course.


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## Mcgoo19 (18 Feb 2019)

I just setup an N26 in response to this issue.
I can send money from UB without any fee to the German IBAN of the N26 account.
You can also send money back from N26 - BUT... it seems UB charge €2 to receive any payment in euro from a SEPA European account? Surely I'm misunderstanding this? 
Has anyone used N26 to send money back to UB current?


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## RedOnion (18 Feb 2019)

Mcgoo19 said:


> it seems UB charge €2 to receive any payment in euro from a SEPA European account?


No, it's €0.20


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## Mcgoo19 (19 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> No, it's €0.20


I could live with that. Thanks. Their website says €2 per incoming payment received. I can't include link here as I'm new. Will validate soon enough. I've sent 2 euro to n26 and will send it back when it arrives.


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## PinkLloyd (19 Feb 2019)

The new charges don't kick in until the 19th of April 2019 so any SEPA charges you're seeing must be based on the current fee regime.


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## MrEarl (22 Feb 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> ...
> 
> But are people counting pennies when they should be watching the pounds?  ....



Very good point Mr. Burgess.


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## MrEarl (22 Feb 2019)

Getting back to the matter of UB's current account charges ....

I think the Banks tend to work like cartels to a greater or lesser extent, it's no coincidence in my opinion that the Banks generally all tend to announce changes to their Homeloan rates, or Deposit rates, in relatively quick succession.  In this instance, we've had PTSB and now UB amend their current account charges - both taking their charges somewhat closer into line with the charges from BoI and AIB. It will be interesting to see if KBC or others, don't also make amendments to their current account pricing, over the next couple of months.  Is there a big difference between them, no .. but is it worth shopping around, yes.

When Banks don't benefit from the surplus funds in current accounts, then it's natural for them to look elsewhere to generate additional revenue, or the revenue they historically earned from using those surplus fund in peoples current accounts.  Add to that, the additional costs Banks now have to incur to comply with additional reporting and regulation etc. but lets not forget, that Banks are generally capitalist in nature and want to make profits.

When we talk about current accounts, we need to consider not just the proposed charges, but also what services are provided.  PTSB for example, are a limited bank (in terms of their abilities, and range of services), and don't offer me GooglePay, whereas Ulster Bank does.  Add to that the fact that I reckon UB will work out slightly cheaper for me, than PTSB would, if I stayed with them. So in this instance, I reckon I've benefited in terms of service, and possibly a little in terms of cost saving, by moving from PTSB to UB.  Could I have saved more by going to KBC, or N26 etc. most likely, but I didn't see them offering everything that I might want, so they just were not right for me at this time.  Other people, will come to different conclusions, depending on their needs and wants


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2019)

MrEarl said:


> we need to consider not just the proposed charges, but also what services are provided.



That is the key point.  The charges are so low, that it's the quality of the service which should matter. 

If Ulster Bank were free, I don't think it would be worth it.  Their service outages seem to have been the most severe. 

Brendan


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## JohnJay (23 Feb 2019)

any opinions on KBC's Current Account?
I wonder how long before they start charging?


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## Nordkapp (23 Feb 2019)

Why are these charges applied on UB accounts here and not on NI UK accounts ? I pay no fees on my UK UB account .
Same goes for that annual Visa card stamp duty, banking for the consumer in Ireland is expensive


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## PinkLloyd (23 Feb 2019)

Nordkapp said:


> Why are these charges applied on UB accounts here and not on NI UK accounts ?


Apart from the obvious answer reminiscent of the joke that starts "Why does a dog ...", Irish banks carry far more risky assets (a.k.a. mortgages) and as a result need to keep reserves, money which would otherwise be lent out and earning them interest.

In other words, in Ireland we're still paying for the financial crash, and will be for a very long time.


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## Lightning (23 Feb 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> quality of the service which should matter



Quality of service should definitely be considered. For example EBS offer free banking but no app, no contactless, no Google Pay, no Apple Pay and feature-less online banking. One has to balance service offering with price. 



JohnJay said:


> any opinions on KBC's Current Account?



Great customer service, good app, Google Pay and Apple Pay support, decent paying regular saver linked to the Extra Current Account product. No cash lodgements.


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## RedOnion (23 Feb 2019)

Nordkapp said:


> Why are these charges applied on UB accounts here and not on NI UK accounts ? I pay no fees on my UK UB account .


In addition to what @PinkLloyd said above, these bank funds are placed in the market at negative 0.4%. The GBP 1 month rate is positive 0.75%.
So the UK banks are earning money on the balance in your current account.



Nordkapp said:


> Same goes for that annual Visa card stamp duty, banking for the consumer in Ireland is expensive


Interestingly, if you are referring to a debit /ATM card, if you have an Irish address your UK bank should be charging you this.


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## JohnJay (23 Feb 2019)

I suppose if you really want a free service you could open an EBS account for basics like lodging cash and ATM withdrawals, then do a weekly/monthly SEPA transfer to an N26 account for day to day contactless, ApplePay, etc.


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## Lightning (23 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> In addition to what @PinkLloyd said above, these bank funds are placed in the market at negative 0.4%.



-0.40% only applies to small portions of  deposits (as most is lent out via mortgages etc) and only applies to certain banks as not all have surplus deposits. PTSB for example do not have any surplus deposits at -0.40%. The vast majority of the deposits at banks are re-lent out by the banks and not parked at the ECB.


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## RedOnion (23 Feb 2019)

CiaranT said:


> -0.40% only applies to small portions of deposits (as most is lent out via mortgages etc) and only applies to certain banks as not all have surplus deposits. PTSB for example do not have any surplus deposits


Ah indeed - I over simplified to make a point. But there is still a cost.

Irish Bank can borrow at -.4% in market, or at 0% from customer. They'd prefer to borrow at -.4% than 0%.

In UK, borrow from market at 0.7%, or from customer at 0%.

Advantage in UK is still >1% compared to Irish Banks.


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## roker (24 Feb 2019)

See my post on : Electronic Transfer Reliability: One of the pitfalls of changing bank. 
As to contactless payment, I don't use, I draw cash out of the machine an pay small amounts cash.


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## Lightning (24 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> Irish Bank can borrow at -.4% in market, or at 0% from customer. They'd prefer to borrow at -.4% than 0%.



I'm getting picky but just for the record ...

Irish banks can borrow from customers at a blended average rate of aprox. 0.42% (BoI rate as at 30 June 2018 - It has almost certainly dropped a lot since then) of which some of this is at 0.00% via current accounts and instant access accounts.
Irish banks can borrow from the ECB at various different rates. The TLTRO ECB programme (which forms the largest part of BoI wholsesale funding) was at 0.40%. Other wholesale funding is at different rates.
Irish banks cannot borrow from the market at 0.40%. Rates are higher for senior and junior debt.


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## RedOnion (24 Feb 2019)

CiaranT said:


> Irish banks cannot borrow from the market at 0.40%. Rates are higher for senior and junior debt.


We're at cross purposes looking at your correction.

I'm not talking about debt, or blended rates. UK banks also have senior and junior debt. 

Customer current accounts aren't junior or senior debt.

I'm talking wholesale funding. Corporate deposits. The alternatives to customer current accounts.  If a bank lost 1bn of customer deposits, how would they replace it? (Junior and Senior debt levels not impacted). They'd borrow wholesale, and save 3m a year on cost of funds.

With 1 exception, Irish Banks can currently access wholesale markets within a few basis points of EURIBOR rates. So if they didn't have current accounts, they could access negative funds. Their excess funds are placed in the market at negative rates, losing them money.

I might have confused things by using -0.4% instead of EURIBOR / LIBOR rates.


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## phester (18 Apr 2019)

From what I read on https://www.breakingnews.ie/busines...ed-every-time-they-use-their-card-918691.html

They will also charge for your wages being paid into your account. I can not determine what charge this is.


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## Laughahalla (20 Apr 2019)

Open up an account with KBC and you will not have charges for most  everyday and online banking i.e withdrawals from ATM or direct debits and standing orders.
PTSB brought in charges recently which prompted me to close my account with them. I subsequently switched my mortgage. In my case, PTSB bank lost my business 1000's of euro per year on a gamble that I'd pay them about 100 euro each year in charges

Complain by taking your business away.


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## Binomial (23 Apr 2019)

Is there any comparison site that will compare UB ufirst current account charges with UB new standard current account charges? and other current account offerings out there?


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## tallpaul (24 Apr 2019)

From the splendid Money Guide Ireland site:

http://www.*****************.com/comparison-of-bank-charges-in-ireland.html

(Incidentally, does anyone know who operates this site? A lot of work goes into it, it is a fantastic resource but seems relatively unsung in terms of its profile).


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## pudds (24 Apr 2019)

Did you see this, http://www.*****************.com/about  still doesn't say who they are only that they are independent and on the side of the consumer.


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## Easeler (8 Jun 2019)

15 euro charge this month that's a fair hike from 4 euro a month, nice little earner for Ulster bank the poor devils I was going to call them something else but I know that kind of behaviour is not tolerated on this forum.


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## Freelance (8 Jun 2019)

2 euro charge this month, a big drop from the 10 euro I was paying previously for my Ulster uFirst a/c before I changed it to a standard current a/c and lodged €3,000 in it. So saving approx €100pa . Thanks Ulster Bank for motivating me to make this change.....


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## mickoneill30 (11 Jun 2019)

Freelance said:


> 2 euro charge this month, a big drop from the 10 euro I was paying previously for my Ulster uFirst a/c before I changed it to a standard current a/c and lodged €3,000 in it. So saving approx €100pa . Thanks Ulster Bank for motivating me to make this change.....


Was your bill last month €10?


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## Palerider (11 Jun 2019)

I do not want to pay any fees, I have been lazy with significant deposits, too much kept in the current account and loyalty over time with Ulster, this is the incentive I needed to move the deposits so not all bad.


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## qwerty5 (11 Jun 2019)

Me too. I just saw my €9 bill for last month on my account yesterday. Next step was to go to KBCs site to sign up. The guy rang me this morning to verify some details and it should be job done in a few days.
I'll probably move my credit card too to keep them all in the same spot.


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## elcato (11 Jun 2019)

qwerty5 said:


> Next step was to go to KBCs site to sign up.


I have moved recently and one big disadvantage for me it the fact that KBC charge almost 4% for non euro atm transactions. UB give you free withdrawal on any RBS atm in the UK. I'm debating moving back to be honest as I go over up to ten times a year. I will use the revelote up to 200 a month free for now but it is a pain having to watch the spending.


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## Freelance (11 Jun 2019)

mickoneill30 said:


> Was your bill last month €10?



No. I changed the account from uFirst to Standard c/a first, so had a couple of months on the €4 fee. But the overall reduction was from €10 to €2.


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## noproblem (11 Jun 2019)

I am with UB,  have moved into the pensioner status and have NO FEES. Getting old has some benefits.


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## qwerty5 (11 Jun 2019)

elcato said:


> I have moved recently and one big disadvantage for me it the fact that KBC charge almost 4% for non euro atm transactions. UB give you free withdrawal on any RBS atm in the UK. I'm debating moving back to be honest as I go over up to ten times a year. I will use the revelote up to 200 a month free for now but it is a pain having to watch the spending.



Didn't know that. The Revolut card will do me for that though. I'm mostly cashless now. I don't think I even withdraw €200 a month in Ireland  
Tapping is waaaaay to easy.


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## PolkaDot (29 Jun 2019)

PinkLloyd said:


> It's really a question of whether you can get €24 or more interest in a year by putting that money elsewhere.
> 
> Up until this, it made sense to keep €3000 in the current acount as that way you could save more in fees (€48 p.a.) than you would have earned in interest in any of the UB instant access accounts.
> 
> That will no longer be the case, so there's no incentive to leave UB with all that free money for them to lend to others at exorbitant rates.



I don't think your rationale is correct here. If you don't keep the €3k balance, you are likely to pay a good bit more than €24 per year in fees, particularly if you make a lot of transactions. We've seen people on here mention monthly fees in the range €9-€15. That's €108- €180 annually. You'll be doing well to get that as interest on €3k at the moment!


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## Nordkapp (29 Jun 2019)

80 cent to lodge money into a UB account via a machine in a branch, pure scandal. Meanwhile my UB NI account has no fees.....


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## Tintagel (8 Aug 2019)

I called in to the Ulster Bank in Dun Laoghaire recently to enquire about purchasing Sterling currency. I was told that I would be better off going to An Post as they charge no fees. (No wonder Ulster bank had a dip in profits last year if the staff are sending customers to their competitors). My understanding is that An Post's fees are hidden in the exchange rate that you get?
As an Ulster Bank customer with free banking I was surprised to be fobbed off by the staff member. Correction....It seems a regular occurrence to be fobbed off by counter staff in Ulster Bank.


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## noproblem (8 Aug 2019)

And there was me thinking the staff member did you a favour.


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## MrEarl (9 Aug 2019)

A bank charges higher fees than someone else, so they are the bad guys....

A bank tells you to go somewhere else to get a better deal, losing the opportunity to earn income by trying to do the right thing for its customers, and they are still the bad guys.... 

What am I missing?


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## Tintagel (9 Aug 2019)

MrEarl said:


> What am I missing?


Without even asking me a question I was advised to go to An Post. As mentioned in my post ,but this point obviously missed by MrEarl and noproblem, I have Free banking with Ulster Bank so there would have been no fees for me. They weren't doing me any favours, it seems they just couldn't be bothered.

I am not certain that An Post is cheaper than the banks to get Sterling currency. The banks may charge a fee, to fee paying customers, but their exchange rate might be better than An Posts. Anyone any experience of this?


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## Boyd (9 Aug 2019)

(aside) You're probably better off again using Revolut, if you don't need the physical sterling....


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## IsleOfMan (9 Aug 2019)

MrEarl said:


> A bank charges higher fees than someone else, so they are the bad guys....


I think Tintagel is talking about the customer service he got.


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## Kimmagegirl (9 Aug 2019)

MrEarl said:


> A bank tells you to go somewhere else to get a better deal,


I would suggest that the person behind the counter in the Ulster Bank hadn't a clue what they were talking about. In my experience of the Ulster Bank they don't even know or understand their own products let alone their competitors.


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## PolkaDot (25 Nov 2019)

PinkLloyd said:


> It's really a question of whether you can get €24 or more interest in a year by putting that money elsewhere.
> 
> Up until this, it made sense to keep €3000 in the current acount as that way you could save more in fees (€48 p.a.) than you would have earned in interest in any of the UB instant access accounts.
> 
> That will no longer be the case, so there's no incentive to leave UB with all that free money for them to lend to others at exorbitant rates.



I got my fee statement for y/e 31st Oct. I didn't pay the transaction fees because I've been maintaining the €3k balance. Had I not, I would have paid €137 (on top of the flat monthly fee). 

€137/€3000 = 4.6%. You're not going to get that kind of after-DIRT return anywhere. Makes complete sense to keep €3k in your current account in the current low interest rate environment.


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## mmclo (14 Jan 2020)

Is there an argument in for using your credit card more regularly for day to day items as charges are on current account payments? Assuming you have the discipline to pay it off etc


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## TarfHead (14 Jan 2020)

mmclo said:


> Is there an argument in for using your credit card more regularly for day to day items as charges are on current account payments?



It depends on the individual and their discipline about making payments, but Yes.  I am one such person.  After many years of free banking, I now have to pay fees so use my VISA Debit card as few times as possible.  I now use my Mastercard for amounts less than EUR10, regardless of the amount of cash in my current account.  I also use make better use of my revolut card, i.e. one top-up can fund multiple contactless payments without racking up fees.


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## Freelance (16 Jan 2020)

mmclo said:


> Is there an argument in for using your credit card more regularly for day to day items as charges are on current account payments? *Assuming you have the discipline to pay it off etc*



Absolutely. Provided as you say that you have this discipline to pay it off. I have the number of C/A transactions down to 5/6 per month and almost eliminated my use of cash. The result is anything up to 150-200 transactions per month on my CC. Last time I paid interest on the thing was 1992 (and that was a mistake by UB and was refunded). I do maintain a €3,000 balance at present in my C/A to avoid transaction charges, but at this stage I could probably look at eliminating that as well, if there was anywhere worthwhile to stick it.


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