# Hey smug Enda. I didn't spend spend spend.



## Odea (27 Jan 2012)

Enda. Please don't include me in your ("Hail fellow well met" best new friends, trying to impress) remarks. Sitting there with your legs crossed sneering at all of us. I didn't overspend at all during the tiger.


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2012)

Odea said:


> Enda. Please don't include me in your ("Hail fellow well met" best new friends, trying to impress) remarks. Sitting there with your legs crossed sneering at all of us. I didn't overspend at all during the tiger.


 
Was he sneering or was he truthful I wonder.


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

Odea said:


> Enda. Please don't include me in your ("Hail fellow well met" best new friends, trying to impress) remarks. Sitting there with your legs crossed sneering at all of us. I didn't overspend at all during the tiger.



Yea, but plenty of people did. I don’t agree with the proposition that our troubles are all down to the greed of householders, it’s more complicated than that,  but I do agree that it was a major factor. Perhaps it was the major factor. The banks were throwing money around, the regulator was failing to do his job and the government was doing everything it could to overheat the economy but that wouldn’t have been enough if; the Unions weren’t demanding more and more from the Benchmarking ATM (and getting as much or more than they asked for), businesses weren’t over-borrowing and tens of thousands of people on average incomes didn’t fancy themselves as property speculators. 


If a person gives a gun to a small child and that child then shoots someone then the adult who gave the gun to the child is at fault.
If a person gives a gun to another adult and that adult then shoots someone then the adult who used the gun is at fault.

If the average Irish person has the intellect of a child then Enda is wrong.


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## Conan (27 Jan 2012)

The quote was "People went mad borrowing...".
So lets analyse this:

The level of borrowing during the period 2000 to 2007 was mad (or does anyone think is was otherwise?)
The borrowing was done by people (not cats, dogs etc)
He did not say that all people went mad, but some clearly did
Yes others went mad by not controling or regulating the market, but if "people" did not borrow to the extent they did we would not be in the state we are in
Like Odea, I did not join the madness, but "people" did.

It is hardly surprising that the usual suspects (Sinn Fein, People (?) Before Profit, Vinny Browne, Constant Regurgitate, even FF) are up in arms (sic). These professional critics are just that.


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

Conan said:


> The quote was "People went mad borrowing...".
> So lets analyise this:
> 
> The level of borrowing during the period 2000 to 2007 was mad (or does anyone think is was otherwise?)
> ...


+1.
When I see People before Profit (or Slogans before sense as they should be called) and SF/IRA giving out about something it usually means I'll agree with it.


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## zztop (27 Jan 2012)

The problems in this country were caused by
Fianna Fail
Fine Gael &
Labour
while in Government.
Power corrupts incompetents.


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

zztop said:


> The problems in this country were caused by
> Fianna Fail
> Fine Gael &
> Labour
> ...



The problems were caused by the failure of government to govern during a decade where democracy was subverted by vested interest groups who carved up the country. The person who holds primary responsibility for that is Bertie Ahern. He sat there with his arms folded and his mouth shut while the construction industry kept their tax breaks  and the unions got their massive pay increases, while social partnership emasculated the people in the Department of Finance who should have been steering government policy. The Central bank and the Financial regulator did nothing to stop profligate lending by the banks. 
All of the above set the scene for the massive levels of borrowing that the Irish people then indulged in but in the end nobody forced anyone to take out a loan. Adults are responsible for their own actions so if people borrowed too much then they only have themselves to blame. I really don’t see how you can blame the current government for any of the above, that’s like blaming the people steering the lifeboats for sinking the Titanic.


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## DerKaiser (27 Jan 2012)

Of course there were multiple causes. It's no harm reminding ourselves that we were the ones paying stupid amounts for houses and taking the money from the banks. It's also no harm pointing out that we still spend more than our incomes. This is a collective truth and is not an individual description of the personal spending habits of each of the 4.6 million people in the country (before any crank gets on their high horse). 

It may not be the only reason we are in trouble, but it is one of the major ones. And it is one we do not face up to well enough. And SF & the other socialists are actually demeaning us as a people by implying we are of a bunch of finanancial illiterates of diminished responsibility and shouldn't be made face up to any of our mistakes as we couldn't have been expected to know any better. That's bull. It's time we showed some maturity and humility. Enda is spot on.


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

I don't understand the fuss about the comments but having said that, it was a very simplistic bar stool answer to give at a forum like Davos.


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## michaelm (27 Jan 2012)

The problem is that in his State of the Nation address here @ 58sec he's says it's not the people's fault, then he skips over to Davos and says it is the people's fault.  One way or another he's talking through his swiss .  This is the State of the Nation address I like, I gives me a warm feeling inside .


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## blueband (27 Jan 2012)

but in his state of the nation address to us a few months ago he stood up and said 'we are not to blame! .....who dose he mean by 'we'
sounds like he changes his story to suit his audience.


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## Pique318 (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> If a person gives a gun to a small child and that child then shoots someone then the adult who gave the gun to the child is at fault.
> If a person gives a gun to another adult and that adult then shoots someone then the adult who used the gun is at fault.





Purple said:


> The Central bank and the Financial regulator did nothing to stop profligate lending by the banks.
> All of the above set the scene for the massive levels of borrowing that the Irish people then indulged in but in the end nobody forced anyone to take out a loan. Adults are responsible for their own actions so if people borrowed too much then they only have themselves to blame. I really don’t see how you can blame the current government for any of the above, that’s like blaming the people steering the lifeboats for sinking the Titanic.


+1, but isn't this the common cry lately?
It wasn't me that done it, I done nuthin' wrong, Bud.

The absolute lunacy of people who bought houses they couldn't afford, accepted mortgages that they knew were too much, remortgaged to 'release equity' to have a holiday or buy a new car, holidayed on credit etc are the ones Enda is referring to.
How that can be a source of righteous indignation is beyond me.

Blame the govt, the banks and (sigh) the bondholders. That makes us all feel better.

It reminds me of the teacher who was told not to mark the childrens exams in red ink, as if there was too many marks, it would make the poor ickle diddums feel bad.

We, as a society 'should' feel bad. We had a part to play, and a not insignificant one at that. Yes, there is much more to it as Purple mentions. But stop deflecting the blame by saying "well 'I' didin't do anything wrong". Fine, good for you. Stop being so bleedin sensitive though. It's a statement about the people, not 'you' personally.

The State Of The Nation Address was a fop. Everyone knew that, but the precious souls didn't want to hear anything that might insinuate that they were ultimately responsible for their own actions. People wanted a fall-guy, and we had loads, FF, Banks & (sigh) bondholders. T'was them that done it. Ignoring the fact that without people falling over themselves to buy a bigger and better house, or more houses, (which they could not ultimately afford) then the policies of FF and the Banks would have amounted to nowt.


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## Firefly (27 Jan 2012)

A friend of mine went mad in the boom. We had them over for dinner recently and they're struggling but won't admit it. We started talking about the boom and he was going on and on about how great it was and the things they treated themselves to. Myself and my wife were taken aback...it was almost like because we didn't go mad that we missed out! Of course when we treat ourselves now (and the treats still aren't excessive) it's like "Oh been there done that" (even though they paid 3 times the price).


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> The problems were caused by the failure of government to govern during a decade where democracy was subverted by vested interest groups who carved up the country. The person who holds primary responsibility for that is Bertie Ahern. He sat there with his arms folded and his mouth shut while the construction industry kept their tax breaks  and the unions got their massive pay increases, while social partnership emasculated the people in the Department of Finance who should have been steering government policy. The Central bank and the Financial regulator did nothing to stop profligate lending by the banks.


+1


blueband said:


> but in his state of the nation address to us a few months ago he stood up and said 'we are not to blame! .....who dose he mean by 'we'
> sounds like he changes his story to suit his audience.


Good point.

In my opinion, the only thing the Irish people are responsible for is voting in the same bunch of chancers over and over again. For this a very heavy price is being paid. 

And while we can't blame Enda for what happened in the past, we can blame him for not doing now what needs to be done. It's the vested interests in Ireland that need to be taken on. Until we do that the Irish people will continue to live under the bootheel.


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

shnaek said:


> And while we can't blame Enda for what happened in the past, we can blame him for not doing now what needs to be done. It's the vested interests in Ireland that need to be taken on. Until we do that the Irish people will continue to live under the bootheel.



The tax breaks are gone (the construction industry is gone) but the malign influence of the unions remains, like a cancer eating away at the heart and lungs of the country.


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

Politicians fell over themselves to take credit for the celtic tiger. Now that it has turned bad they are falling over themselves to get away from taking credit.  Hamish puts it best in Breaveheart in a quote I can't use here - but can be found by googling "braveheart Nest of scheming"


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

shnaek said:


> Politicians fell over themselves to take credit for the celtic tiger. Now that it has turned bad they are falling over themselves to get away from taking credit.  Hamish puts it best in Breaveheart in a quote I can't use here - but can be found by googling "braveheart Nest of scheming"



Sure teachers took credit for the boom because they’d educated our “highly educated workforce” in our “world-class education system”. They peddled that line of guff in order to justify the massive pay increases they looked for (and got). I haven’t heard them saying that the crash is their fault because they produced a generation of financially illiterate gombeens who didn’t see the blindingly obvious.
It’s human nature to take credit for the good things and blame others for the bad.


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## Shawady (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> Sure teachers took credit for the boom because they’d educated our “highly educated workforce” in our “world-class education system”. They peddled that line of guff in order to justify the massive pay increases they looked for (and got).


 
Yep, I remember that interview in early 2000's when a teacher union rep thought they should get more money because they created the celtic tiger. It sounded like sour grapes to me as tradesmen where earning more money than teachers at the time.

People were undoubtly let down by government/banks/regulators but at the same time a lot of 'ordinary people' lost the run of themselves and contributed to the mess, even if only in a small way.


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## BOXtheFOX (27 Jan 2012)

I think what annoyed me about Enda was his body language and tone. He was amongst his important friends and he had no problem putting down the idiot, foolish Irish back home. He strikes me as the type of person that would say anything to impress.


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## T McGibney (27 Jan 2012)

Kenny should have said this a year ago when we was elected. When basics as diverse as the old age pension and the price of a chocolate bar are inflated to the highest levels in Europe, at the same time as the country and most of its population are broke, its long past time for us all to recognise what went wrong.


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## mandelbrot (27 Jan 2012)

The truth is like a dessert after a big meal - you'll only have it if you're able for it...

A VERY big meal was had in this country by an awful lot of people.

Oh, and +1 to pretty much everything Purple has said above


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## Betsy Og (27 Jan 2012)

I can see how it rankles with those who paid top dollar to "get on the property ladder" cos "it will be too late". They are now in negative equity for the heinous crime of wanting a home to bring up their family. I have every sympathy for them.

On the other hand you had the property bores with their portfolio in Ireland, Bulgaria, Turkey & Spain and dahling you really ought to get your snout in the trough. I have much less (if any) sympathy for them, they were driven by greed, they borrowed way more than was sustainable (or only sustainable in a never ending boom), as opposed to expecting to repay debt out of earned income.

If Enda could have drawn that distinction  - which maybe he had in his own mind but failed to articulate - then I dont think many would disagree.


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## liaconn (27 Jan 2012)

Betsy Og said:


> I can see how it rankles with those who paid top dollar to "get on the property ladder" cos "it will be too late". They are now in negative equity for the heinous crime of wanting a home to bring up their family. I have every sympathy for them.
> 
> On the other hand you had the property bores with their portfolio in Ireland, Bulgaria, Turkey & Spain and dahling you really ought to get your snout in the trough. I have much less (if any) sympathy for them, they were driven by greed, they borrowed way more than was sustainable (or only sustainable in a never ending boom), as opposed to expecting to repay debt out of earned income.
> 
> If Enda could have drawn that distinction - which maybe he had in his own mind but failed to articulate - then I dont think many would disagree.


 
I totally agree with this. As someone who bought an apartment in a very ordinary area at the top of the market simply because I was getting to a stage in life where it was either 'buy now or remain in rented property for the rest of your life' I really resent being lumped in with the people who splashed money around on multiple annual holidays, designer clothes, unneccessary additions and improvements to their homes, big fancy cars etc. There is a huge difference.


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## becky (27 Jan 2012)

Pique318 said:


> Stop being so bleedin sensitive though. It's a statement about the people, not 'you' personally.


 
I agree, I often wonder why people set so annoyed about these kind of statements, they never bother me.

I know I wasn't one of these poeple but don't feel an urge to tell enda that.

I didn't go mad back in the day.  Well I have more shoes than I need but I don't have all the shoes I want so I think that is a good compromise.

I have some savings, and no debt. I'm now looking at buying a house now (knocked that on the head in 2007) but my rented accommadation is very cheap so I don't feel under pressure to move.


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> Sure teachers took credit for the boom because they’d educated our “highly educated workforce” in our “world-class education system”. They peddled that line of guff in order to justify the massive pay increases they looked for (and got). I haven’t heard them saying that the crash is their fault because they produced a generation of financially illiterate gombeens who didn’t see the blindingly obvious.
> It’s human nature to take credit for the good things and blame others for the bad.



Yes, I have to agree with all that. But I also note that the people who gave out those payrises were the government. It's the government I hold first and foremost responsible for the state of the country. And that is not just politicians, but also their advisors. 

Government want the benefits of responsibility, but will take none of the action that is required of true leaders. They fail to act responsibly practically all the time. Their eyes are on future elections and populism. Populism more often than not, will lead to failure.

No group in power has ever given up power without being forced to. The government and vested interests that run this country will never give up power voluntarily. More government is not the answer to a problem that has been caused by government. We need a whole new system, and we have yet to find the person or people who will give it to us. This person, on the basis of the taoiseach's speach, is not Enda Kenny


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## Purple (27 Jan 2012)

liaconn said:


> I totally agree with this. As someone who bought an apartment in a very ordinary area at the top of the market simply because I was getting to a stage in life where it was either 'buy now or remain in rented property for the rest of your life' I really resent being lumped in with the people who splashed money around on multiple annual holidays, designer clothes, unneccessary additions and improvements to their homes, big fancy cars etc. There is a huge difference.



I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

I think Maeve Dineen sums it up very well here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...dit-madness-theory-doesnt-add-up-3001766.html


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## TarfHead (27 Jan 2012)

I think the reaction has been, as has become usual, hysterical. Both the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance have been guilty recently of making sweeping generalisations.

That is all.


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

TarfHead said:


> I think the reaction has been, as has become usual, hysterical. Both the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance have been guilty recently of making sweeping generalisations.
> 
> That is all.


We in Ireland don't do violent protest. But we do a brisk trade in hysterical reaction


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

I think people are losing sight of a few things. We are not in this mess because people decided to buy overpriced property. We are in this mess because we had a Government that decided to base a large percentage of our spending on tax revenue obtained from one sector of the economy. We are in this mess because instead of taking steps to cool an overheating economy, we shoved McCreevy off to Brussels and continued to offer huge tax breaks for property related items and lowered other taxes. We are in this mess because there was a huge amount of cheap liquidity within the financial system and banks were desperate to do deals. We are in this mess because of incompetent bankers. We are in this mess because those banks were not regulated properly by the people who were supposed to be doing it. We are in this mess because someone like Sean Quinn decided he wanted to get rich without any consideration for anything other than his own wealth. We are in this mess because of the world financial crisis. We are in this mess because we allowed banks become too big to fail and losses had to be bourne by the taxpayer. Could go on and on and on.....

When it comes to apportioning blame, people like Liaconn and others are well down the list.


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## shnaek (27 Jan 2012)

sunny said:


> i think people are losing sight of a few things. We are not in this mess because people decided to buy overpriced property. We are in this mess because we had a government that decided to base a large percentage of our spending on tax revenue obtained from one sector of the economy. We are in this mess because instead of taking steps to cool an overheating economy, we shoved mccreevy off to brussels and continued to offer huge tax breaks for property related items and lowered other taxes. We are in this mess because there was a huge amount of cheap liquidity within the financial system and banks were desperate to do deals. We are in this mess because of incompetent bankers. We are in this mess because those banks were not regulated properly by the people who were supposed to be doing it. We are in this mess because someone like sean quinn decided he wanted to get rich without any consideration for anything other than his own wealth. We are in this mess because of the world financial crisis. We are in this mess because we allowed banks become too big to fail and losses had to be bourne by the taxpayer. Could go on and on and on.....
> 
> When it comes to apportioning blame, people like liaconn and others are well down the list.


+1


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## demoivre (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.



Fair enough if the bank didn't give you a mortgage of six or seven times your income, or insisted on you taking a three year fixed rate because you wouldn't have passed the variable rate stress test, or give you a 100% mortgage, or give you an interest only mortgage for the first five years or longer. I have no problem with your argument where the bank lent responsibly but I have a major problem with reckless lending overseen by an incompetent regulator , central bank and government.


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## liaconn (27 Jan 2012)

Purple said:


> I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.


 

But I'm talking about people who had no house at all and were unwilling to rent for the rest of their lives in a country where renters have very little rights. For most people there is actually a relatively small window in life when you can get a mortgage. You have to be old enough to be earning a reasonable salary, have a deposit saved up and a track record of saving that will keep the bank happy; while being young enough to be able to get a mortgage that you can pay off over 20-25 years. For a lot of people they would only enter that window at about 30 yrs of age and, before they know it, 40 is approaching and they need to get on the ladder. 

Also, people didn't know, and certainly weren't informed, that property prices would go down. We were lead to believe they would keep going up for a time and then stabilise.


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## blueband (27 Jan 2012)

shnaek said:


> We in Ireland don't do violent protest. But we do a brisk trade in hysterical reaction


something that has not gone unnoticed by our EU overlords as they turn the screw on us!


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## Time (27 Jan 2012)

It just goes to show that the Irish people are not fit to govern themselves.


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

blueband said:


> something that has not gone unnoticed by our EU overlords as they turn the screw on us!



Nice soundbite but not exactly true is it? Would you prefer to be in Greece? What have they achieved through their love of protesting?


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## michaelm (27 Jan 2012)

Time said:


> It just goes to show that the Irish people are not fit to govern themselves.


Perhaps the Irish have become too malleable but our current self-financing party political system is effectively a closed-shop, it requires a reset.





Sunny said:


> Would you prefer to be in Greece? What have they achieved through their love of protesting?


Some might say they've achieved a 70% haircut.


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## T McGibney (27 Jan 2012)

liaconn said:


> Also, people didn't know, and certainly weren't informed, that property prices would go down. We were lead to believe they would keep going up for a time and then stabilise.



While I sympathise with your plight, and understand your perspective, I have to say that this particular statement unfortunately undermines your entire argument.


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## liaconn (27 Jan 2012)

T McGibney said:


> While I sympathise with your plight, and understand your perspective, I have to say that this particular statement unfortunately undermines your entire argument.


 
How?


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## T McGibney (27 Jan 2012)

Of course people knew that property price falls were at least a possibility. There were countless shills and snake-oil 'experts' who said that prices would rise for ever and ever, but also plenty of mainstream commentators who urged caution, not least in media like AAM but also in the leading newspapers, and radio and tv programmes.


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## blueband (27 Jan 2012)

liaconn said:


> Also, people didn't know, and certainly weren't informed, that property prices would go down. We were lead to believe they would keep going up for a time and then stabilise.


the thing with property is that it seldom dose stabilise, its nearly always going either up or down.


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

What mainstream commentators? People on sites like AAM and property pin had more idea than anyone reported in the media.


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## T McGibney (27 Jan 2012)

From wikipedia


> Crash predictions
> 
> In February 2000, William Slattery (then former Deputy Head of  Banking Supervision in the Central Bank of Ireland) predicted a property  price fall of 30%-50% possible if credit growth not curbed.[22]
> 
> ...


From memory:

David McWilliams, writer with the Sunday Business Post and later Irish Independent, radio show host and national TV presenter, predicted a house price crash & debated this in detail with bank economist Austin Hughes on RTE's Prime Time show in 2003. 

Economists Morgan Kelly and Alan Ahearne were also saying something similar around the mid-2000s. Ahearne had his own column in the Sunday Independent. Kelly used write an odd article for the Irish Times.

Bill Tyson, then personal finance journalist with the Irish Independent, predicted a crash in 2002/03.


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

And what happened after one of those reports? You had banks, estate agents, government ministers, academics etc etc rushing out with their people to ridicule the reports. You might be financially savy enough to see the warning signs but some poor fecker being given the sales pitch from some sub prime lender might not have been. I refuse to condemn them for that.


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## Sunny (27 Jan 2012)

By the way, How many ordinary people read regular economist or OECD reports? Want to go back and look at media coverage. Willing to bet none were front page headlines like you see now.


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## T McGibney (27 Jan 2012)

How many people in Ireland 8-10 years ago didn't know who David McWilliams was, and why he was famous?

PS like you,I condemn nobody. However its ridiculous to say that nobody was ever told that price falls were possible. To say this isn't condemning anyone.


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## Superman (28 Jan 2012)

It was and is rather disheartening to see the media wheel out estate agents to answer questions on the future trend of the housing market. 
RTE still do this a lot - will they ever learn? Do they care? 

You'd think at least at this stage they would preface what the person is about to say by "WARNING, this next piece is by a shill" - instead of sitting there and listening to another "now is the perfect time to buy a house".


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## Leper (31 Jan 2012)

Enda Kenny was not wrong in what he said. Most of us didn't jump on the lunatic spend bandwagon. Some of us had some sense knowing that in a country that never knew anything but depression the boom was only temporary. But, the banks showered money on people. Customers went to banks asking for loans for second hand cars and came out with offers of loans for new four wheel drives and a run-around. The conversation everywhere was that the country was awash with money.  Suddenly people who could barely afford a holiday previously were now buying holiday homes. The local bank managers were egged on by bonuses etc. It was like giving sweets to hungry children. Unfortunately, many of these adult children could not get enough sweets. Consequently, we are now back in "normal times."

The country went mad on greed - there is no other word . . . and the people who caused our national disaster will never have to answer for their misdeeds.


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## SlurrySlump (31 Jan 2012)

Watching Enda on the TV clips waltzing around Sarkozy, putting his arm around him, patting him on the back, "whup ya Boyo", I have to say made me want to throw up. I think he is very false.


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## T McGibney (31 Jan 2012)

SlurrySlump said:


> Watching Enda on the TV clips waltzing around Sarkozy, putting his arm around him, patting him on the back, "whup ya Boyo", I have to say made me want to throw up. I think he is very false.



Agree 100%. Although Enda doesn't appear too sincere either


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## shnaek (31 Jan 2012)

Leper said:


> and the people who caused our national disaster will never have to answer for their misdeeds.


Indeed this is the most depressing part. Many of them ended up benefiting from it.


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## SoylentGreen (1 Feb 2012)

SlurrySlump said:


> Watching Enda on the TV clips waltzing around Sarkozy, putting his arm around him, patting him on the back, "whup ya Boyo", I have to say made me want to throw up. I think he is very false.


 
If you look closely you will see his tail wagging!


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## Ancutza (1 Feb 2012)

> Watching Enda on the TV clips waltzing around Sarkozy, putting his arm  around him, patting him on the back, "whup ya Boyo", I have to say made  me want to throw up. I think he is very false.


Disgusting alright. Both of them.


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## WaterWater (2 Feb 2012)

Sarkozy doesn't act like that with others. Enda is giving off the eejit vibes. 
When Enda was giving his address to the nation this was scripted for him. When he was talking in Davos it wasn't scripted.


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