# Barring people from a shop: plagued by kids who come in and hang around.



## Moral Ethos (8 Oct 2007)

I own a shop and I am plauged by kids who come in and hang around. They don't buy anything and they put my real customers off. I keep telling them this is not a social club and to go away. 

Do i need a sign up saying "The management reserve the right of admission" before I can bar them? 

Thanks for your opinions.


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## gipimann (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*

Have you tried the "mosquito" devices, much discussed earlier this year in the media?   They emit high-pitched noise which isn't audible to the general public, but apparently drive teenagers from your door (because they can hear it)?!


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## MichaelDes (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*

For some reason I'm in my late thirties and can hear this noise. It is awful and gives me a headache. It would certainly put them off hanging around - I’m in the minority that can hear it, as "pitch range" of higher frequency noise deteriorates with age. Oh lucky me.


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## amgd28 (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*

How about playing some country & western background music........
Probably have a worse affect than the high-frequency mosquito device


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## colm (9 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*

What would be the legalities of using these around your private residence?


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## pat127 (9 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*



Moral Ethos said:


> I own a shop and I am plauged by kids who come in and hang around. They don't buy anything and they put my real customers off. I keep telling them this is not a social club and to go away.
> 
> Do i need a sign up saying "The management reserve the right of admission" before I can bar them?
> 
> Thanks for your opinions.



I'm not a lawywer but AFAIK you are completely within your rights to decide who you want to serve and by definition therefore who you wish to have in your shop. That would suggest that a sign isn't necessary.

Where you need to be careful perhaps is with the Equality legislation. Any suggestion that you are barring people because of one of the 9 categories (race etc) could cause you problems. The accusation itself even if subsequently proved to be unfounded will cause you aggravation.

Although it is grouped under the section on Clubs, the following might be interesting:-

"A provider of good/services, or a person providing accommodation or related services, can refuse service/accommodation to a person if a reasonable individual, having the knowledge and experience of the provider, would form the belief that the provision of service/accommodation to the customer would produce a substantial risk of criminal or disorderly conduct or behaviour, or damage to property in or around the area where the service is provided."


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## vector (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop*

the quotation from that act/SI means as a "shopkeeper" you can refuse to server someone - althought that is dodgy as if they happened to be a member of the travelling community they might think it was discrimination, but that aside once you've decided not to serve the person can you actually forceably eject them? or do you have to wait until they knock something over/steal something?


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## Swallows (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*

Limit the number of kids to two at a time, you can put a sign up stating this, say you are not in a position to be able to serve more than two,  and other customers as well, if the shop is full of kids, say at lunchtime when they all pile in together.This will work without upsetting anyone. I have often seen this notice on shop doors. Two kids are easy to handle but also dont forget that they have money to spend as well. Just stock something that will be popular with that age group.


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## RainyDay (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*



Swallows said:


> Limit the number of kids to two at a time, you can put a sign up stating this, say you are not in a position to be able to serve more than two,  and other customers as well, if the shop is full of kids, say at lunchtime when they all pile in together.This will work without upsetting anyone. I have often seen this notice on shop doors. Two kids are easy to handle but also dont forget that they have money to spend as well. Just stock something that will be popular with that age group.



I think that a sign like this could be in breach of Equality legislation. I'm pretty sure that pubs/clubs can no longer restrict entry to (for example) over 23's in the way they used to, as this is discriminating on grounds of age (one of the nine grounds listed in the Equal Status Acts. You could have a sign/rule stating that you can only serve two people at any one time, but not kids as far as I know.


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## sherib (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*

I googled "Loitering" to see if it was illegal (seemed mainly to apply to prostitution surprisingly) and came up with this: [broken link removed] 

It's the opinion of a firm of Solicitors named Hewitsons in the UK about that mosquito system and whether its use would infringe on peoples' rights. It might be of interest to the original poster. Would it not be an idea to talk to the local Gardai and seek their advice about the problem?


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## Nige (23 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*



RainyDay said:


> I'm pretty sure that pubs/clubs can no longer restrict entry to (for example) over 23's in the way they used to, as this is discriminating on grounds of age (one of the nine grounds listed in the Equal Status Acts.


 
That was initially the case but licensed premises then got a specific exemption from this to allow them choose a minimum age above the legal drinking age.

However, other service providers cannot bar customers under a certain age.


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## colm (23 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*

This cant be right. Wasn't there a case recently where a man won damages from a pub for been refused for being too OLD.
Surly they can't discriminate one way & not the other.


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## Nige (23 Oct 2007)

*Re: Barring people from a shop: plauged by kids who come in and hang around.*



colm said:


> This cant be right. Wasn't there a case recently where a man won damages from a pub for been refused for being too OLD.
> Surly they can't discriminate one way & not the other.


 
Yes there was and yes they can.

The ability to set a minimum age over 18 and not contravene the Equality Act was introduced in the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 2003


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## michaelm (25 Oct 2007)

Moral Ethos said:


> I own a shop and I am plauged by kids who come in and hang around.


I suspect that a Bing Crosby CD on repeat will see them off without bothering your actual customers.  Seriously.


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