# Building insurance for apartments



## technotastic (13 Oct 2006)

Hi,

wondering if anyone can help.

I bought an apartment a couple of years ago and have recently discovered a leak in the heating system.  It is one of the pipes in the concrete floor of the apartment which is leaking.  

I have contents insurance which I've been told will not cover the heating system, pipework etc as this is normally classed under building insurance.  

The management company for the estate has told me that this is not under the block policy as the leak is in my apartment (even though its in the concrete floor. They said that there is a concrete screed above the slab which is where the pipes are and that this is not under their responsibility).  So I'm now in a position where neither the building or contents insurance will cover the cost of finding and repairing the leak (and subsequently replacing the concrete floor).  The cost is potentially several thousand euro depending on where the leak is.  

From speaking to my own insurer (for the contents cover), it is not possible for me to get this type of cover as you cannot have the building insured twice, in any case you would need to insure the whole building and not just the individual unit.  Is this the case?  If so, how can I get the floor and pipework/heating system insured?

Can anyone advise me on where to go next?

The builder has stated that the apartment is out of warranty.
The management company want nothing to do with this.
My contents insurance provider has stated that this is not classed as contents and so is not covered.
I'm consulting my solicitor who handled the sale of the house to investigate the deeds to find who retains ownership of the concrete floor.


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## cian8 (13 Oct 2006)

I'm no expert on this matter so don't rely on this info, but your management company's reply seems very suspect:



technotastic said:


> The management company for the estate has told me that this is not under the block policy as the leak is in my apartment


 
Do you have a lease/freehold on the apartment? If its a lease it would be my understanding that you only own the fittings (my insurer says this is anything that you can take with you, I imagine without resorting to a pneumatic hammer) in the apartment and the right to use the apartment (for the duration of the lease). Therefore any damage to the apartment IS the responsibility of the management company since they de facto own the apartment.

Obviously, the devil is in the detail, so you really need to check all the relevant documentation. Ask for a copy of the block insurance policy, the policy number, and contact details for the insurance company and/or broker. You are a shareholder of the management company so I'd imagine you are entitled to this information. Then contact the insurer/broker, they probably won't deal direct with you, my experience anyway, but just say all you want to know is if your covered.

If it turns out that you are not covered, and non of the assumptions I have made are incorrect, then it may be the case that the managment company didn't get adequate insurance cover. I have no idea of their legal obligations to provide this but your solicitor might know.

I am currently processing a claim via the block insurance policy due to a leak in my apartment so far I haven't had any problems.

Hope this helps.


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## technotastic (13 Oct 2006)

Hi Cian8,

thanks for your reply.  I have a leasehold on the apartment.  I spoke to the building insurance broker - they said there is no "trace and access" cover in place and they said there is no insurance to cover the heating systems in the apartments.  (i.e. its not covered by the block policy).  
My own insurer said the same thing as you have stated (i.e. personal effects/contents are covered but plumbing etc is not as these are fixed to the building).

I've requested a copy of the policy in any case.  
I'm now just waiting on my solicitor to get back to me on where the line in ownership is (i.e. above or below the floor).


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## dam099 (13 Oct 2006)

Hopefully your solicitor will shed some light on the exact position but just beacuse the block insurance policy does not cover it does not mean the management company is not responsible. If they (perhaps negligently) just have put in place inadequate cover they could still be liable for the repairs themselves (i.e. you and all the other owners), is there a sinking fund in place to cover repairs and maintenance? (I suppose if a professional management agent was subcontracted you might have a case against them)


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## Rico (15 Oct 2006)

Unfortunately, in my experience,the leaking heating system or leaking pipes are not covered under either the Buildings or Contents Insurance. Any damage that arises as a result of the leak ie water damage is covered, but not the repair or replacement of the system itself. This problem usually happens for a number of reasons, a fault in the heating system, a faulty connecting pipe ,due to poor maintenance or faulty workmanship in the fitting or it could be wear and tear. It is not Insurable, as stated above on some policies there is trace and access which covers the costs of finding the problem usually to a limit of a few thousand. euros Good Luck.


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## technotastic (16 Oct 2006)

We have a "professional" (I use the term loosely) management company (Wyse) in place and in past experience they have been dreadful; beyond useless on almost all issues I've raised.  
Of course this is my personal experience although I've heard similar stories from others in the same complex - in my opinion, avoid them at all costs.  Not sure if any of the others are any better mind you - although it seems Cian8 has had a better run of things. 

There is a sinking fund in place but it seems the management agents are shying away from the responsibility of the problem.

The apartments are only built 2.5 years (I bought from new), I'd suspect shoddy workmanship is the cause.


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## technotastic (12 Jan 2007)

To update, it turns out that this was covered all along by the buildings insurance (i.e. through the management company).  I had to pay for the materials for the repair of the pipe (a total of about 150 euros out of a claim of 5500 euros).  

The problem is now that the excess (800 euros), the managment agent are telling me is up to me to pay and not the management company.  Now, I'd be ok with this if I believed it to be true, I don't think it is.

Now technically, the management company "owns" the area that work was required and have been proved to be liable (by virtue of the fact that the building insurance covered the claim).  

Does anyone know who should pay?


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## barc (19 Dec 2012)

Hi Technotastic.  I know this all happened to you a very long time ago but I would really appreciate if you could let me know the outcome.  I am currently going through exactly the same situation, a leak in my apartment that could run into thousands.  My management company have advised that it is not their issue but it involves drilling down into the concrete and from what I understand removing a block wall between my apartment and my neighbours.  It is also not covered under my contents insurance.   To get an an update on how you resolved your issue would be a great help.  thanks


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## Jimbobp (20 Dec 2012)

It would depend on what insurance your management company took out on behalf of the people in the complex. If the policy has 'trace and access of leak' cover, then it should be covered up to a certain amount. As others have touched on though, these block policies often have an excess of €800 or more. If its look like an expensive job then it may be worth your while talking to an independent assessor, who will do the leg work for you in going through the block policy cover and organising trades men etc.(Of course he will charge you for this but it maybe the only way forward). He will also advise if he think the management company are liable for any part of it. Best of luck with it.


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