# ptsb put me on 1% although no rate specified in mortgage deed? Should I appeal level of compensation



## bpw (13 Jun 2016)

Hi just on the same matter regarding appeal could anyone give me advice as to whether appeal or not. We were one of the lucky few who actually got a good rate and are happy with it but extremely unhappy regarding our compensation as it was completely inadequate for the stress and financial hardship it cost us. No point in going into it as everyone knows the hardship caused by PTSB. Any advice or could we lose our tracker rate if we appeal ( As we arent actually sure if they made a mistake with the rate and afraid of rocking the boat)


----------



## Freshstart (14 Jun 2016)

Can I ask BPW did u have a rate specified in your loan offer as judging by comments I'm guessing you didn't???


----------



## Wardy7 (14 Jun 2016)

I'd be guessing BPW's rate was specified.

Those of us who didn't have a rate specified are being shafted with 3.25%.


----------



## Wardy7 (14 Jun 2016)

My opinion on BPW feeling lucky is that there was a rate specified.  I can't imagine that PTSB gave a low rate to anyone that they didn't absolutely have to. Where it wasn't specified in the contract, they went straight to the highest rate.

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't make sense for them to go low unnecessarily.  It would be totally out of character for them and would go against how they have acted through this whole sorry mess.  Everything they do and every decision they have made is to their benefit and our detriment!

BPW I'm sure will clarify.


----------



## bpw (14 Jun 2016)

I'm not sure don't think it was specified but will double check. I was just wondering if they could take it off us. We were in it from the beginning and we really done our research back then and gave them a real fight and I'm wondering is that the reason we were put on a low rate as they know we definitely wouldn't let it go. Really don't want to jinx ourselves by appealing don't know what to do


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2016)

If the rate was not specified in the contract, but they gave it to you anyway, it was a mistake on their part. 

It's possible but unlikely. So first, check your contract. 

If it was specified, you have nothing to lose by appealing. 

If it was not specified, then they might twig their error. 

But has anyone actually been awarded additional compensation for distress? I have not heard of any cases.


----------



## bpw (15 Jun 2016)

Brendan
That's my exact thought aswell and now that you have similar thoughts if it doesn't state the interest rate Im thinking it might be better off left alone. If they were to notice this (coincidentally lol ) after the time frame allowed to appeal could PTSB just decide to change it and put it back up. Anyone have any views on this


----------



## bpw (15 Jun 2016)

Part of the appeal we were thinking of putting in involved stress incurred aswell


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2016)

bpw said:


> Part of the appeal we were thinking of putting in involved stress incurred aswell



I don't think that any of the cases which don't involve the loss of one's home, are being awarded compensation for stress beyond the automatic figure awarded at the outset.


----------



## ella (15 Jun 2016)

What about the cork court case covered in the irish inderpendent by charlie weaton & Tim Healy. Bankrupt man may sue PTSB after winning case against this bank for loss of home & relationship ?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2016)

They lost their home and might get even more compensation for that.

Although from reading the case, they had other issues as well. 

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess (15 Jun 2016)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...may-sue-ptsb-after-loss-of-home-34798668.html

"The outstanding mortgage at the time of the bankruptcy was some €326,000 with €75,000 arrears, Mr Wallace's counsel told the court.

However, counsel said the actual amount, had there not been an overcharge, was around €284,000 with €52,000 arrears."

So he would still have been in arrears of €52k instead of €75k.   So he lost his home and his relationship over €23k?  Unlikely.


----------



## Tippwoman (15 Jun 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> They lost their home and might get even more compensation for that.
> 
> Although from reading the case, they had other issues as well.
> 
> Brendan


Bpw should contact padric kissane ptsb admitted they were wrong and who gave them authority to set compensation levels what you have you hold they cant say this week it 1% and next week its 3'3% stick the boot into them and dont give up


----------



## ella (16 Jun 2016)

Bredan.
When you dont have money 3.000 is as much as 30.000. And the way PTSB put rates up to 6.2 % was so wrong. I remmember the stress of this very much


----------



## Brendan Burgess (16 Jun 2016)

Ella 

I know that very well.  I organised the borrowers to attend and speak at the ptsb AGM which contributed to their decision to bring rates down towards the market levels. 

"However, counsel said the actual amount, had there not been an overcharge, was around €284,000 with €52,000 arrears."
So even had they retained their tracker, they would still have had significant arrears.  I have  yet to see a case where the interest rate caused the arrears.  In all cases I have seen,  the arrears were caused by a loss of income or a relationship split up. The overcharging made it worse, but did not, of its own, cause the problems. 

I think that someone who would have been €52,000 in arrears had they been on a tracker, will find it very difficult to convince a judge that the increase in arrears to €75,000 caused their relationship to end.


----------



## PadKiss (16 Jun 2016)

_"I have yet to see a case where the interest rate caused the arrears. In all cases I have seen, the arrears were caused by a loss of income or a relationship split up. The overcharging made it worse, but did not, of its own, cause the problems."
_
I have to disagree strongly with this comment as it is an entirely incorrect position from my point of view and the many cases I have reviewed. First and foremost this lender should be ashamed at what they have done to their customers and there are many more to come that have yet to be contacted. This lender has affected the lives of people. I will stand over my view following my investigations that this was deliberate by this lender from the very start of this mess and is continuing with the treatment people are getting through the process that is supposedly in place to resolve the issues. I am frankly appalled at the attempts at the dilution of what has occurred and the affects it has had on people and their families. 
IT IS A DISGRACE IT OCCURRED AND WAS ALLOWED TO OCCUR. I don't believe there is any genuine understanding of the cause and effects this has had on people and their families within PTSB in my experience to date in dealing with the matter. I must say the same applies to some contributors here Padraic


----------



## ella (16 Jun 2016)

Well said padraic. And still it carrys on when will this be over.


----------



## radley (17 Jun 2016)

bpw said:


> Hi just on the same matter regarding appeal could anyone give me advice as to whether appeal or not. We were one of the lucky few who actually got a good rate and are happy with it but extremely unhappy regarding our compensation as it was completely inadequate for the stress and financial hardship it cost us. No point in going into it as everyone knows the hardship caused by PTSB. Any advice or could we lose our tracker rate if we appeal ( As we arent actually sure if they made a mistake with the rate and afraid of rocking the boat)



Hi, Did you mange to check if a specific rate was specified on your contracts or not ? Would be interesting to know for those of us who did not have a rate specified.


----------



## bpw (18 Jun 2016)

No sorry won't be home until next weekend but will check then and update


----------



## Brendan Burgess (18 Jun 2016)

PadKiss said:


> First and foremost this lender should be ashamed at what they have done to their customers and there are many more to come that have yet to be contacted. This lender has affected the lives of people. I will stand over my view following my investigations that this was deliberate by this lender from the very start of this mess and is continuing with the treatment people are getting through the process that is supposedly in place to resolve the issues.



Just to be clear - I fully agree with all of that. 



PadKiss said:


> _"I have yet to see a case where the interest rate caused the arrears. In all cases I have seen, the arrears were caused by a loss of income or a relationship split up. The overcharging made it worse, but did not, of its own, cause the problems."
> _
> I have to disagree strongly with this comment as it is an entirely incorrect position from my point of view and the many cases I have reviewed.



Here is an example of the impact of the loss of tracker 






For the interest rate alone to cause this problem, the person had to be able to afford the €1,130 but not afford the €1,667. 

There would be cases of this. So the interest rate would have pushed some people into arrears. But in most of the arrears cases I have seen, the arrears were caused by people whose income dropped so they were not able to pay even the €1,130 

So, just to make my position clear: 

The higher interest rate will have pushed some, but not many, people into arrears who would not have otherwise been in arrears. 

The higher interest rate will have made the arrears higher for anyone in arrears. 

The higher interest rates will have impacted on many people, even those who were not in arrears, through diverting their money away from other necessary expenditure to paying their mortgage. 
If someone was paying €1,200 a month and ended up in arrears solely due to the wrong rate, they would have a claim for compensation. 

If someone was paying nothing or a lot less than even what the repayment should have been, they have no claim, in my opinion.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (18 Jun 2016)

What about someone who paid the higher rate and was never in arrears? 

Let's say that they didn't pay their Credit Union or other loans and ended up with a damaged credit record. They would be entitled to compensation. 

Could they claim that their marriage split up due to the higher rate? I think that is a bit far fetched. But I am not an expert on marriage and relationships and maybe that could be the sole cause of a split up.

Brendan


----------



## rodger (18 Jun 2016)

You're saying borrower must pay the full capital, but banks can rearrange.

The term can be extended

The capital can be parked

But interest must be paid


----------



## Freshstart (22 Jun 2016)

To be honest Brendan I feel like you may be a number crunching wiz but you really have no idea of the reach of the effects the overcharging has had on families.


----------



## bpw (6 Jul 2016)

I agree aswell the effects overcharging has had on my life is unbelievable. It states rate above ecb in contract. Had anyone yet had a successful appeal and on what grounds


----------

