# Incompetent Letting Agent-what to do?



## Confused&Str (9 Jul 2008)

*Advice needed - Letting Agent incompetent!* 
hi everyone, I was hoping someone can advise me. i have let my property with a letting agent, and as I am now living abroad I also have them looking after managment. 

Since handing the property to them in April I have had nothing but trouble.

Firstly, the first month they never sent my payment, and I had to chase after them to get paid. Eventually I got my money - but not the correct amount. They took *1 YEAR managment up front!!!!* this is not usual for private letting in circumstances such as mine. I then had to argue for the return of this. they also never forwarded the deposit for me to hold. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Now, only 3 months after they got me a tenant, the tenant is a month behind on rent. I asked the agent to give them notice to vacate, and he *says* he has - but he has not provided any copies of correstpondence to me. He made an agreement with the tenant - without my authorisation - to allow them use their deposit for rent. however, the story he kept telling em was that they were just late with the rent and it will be paid, tomorrow, tomorrow tomorrow. eventually I asked for him to put a date in writing and guarantee rent payment - he did, but last friday came and went and still no rent as guaranteed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




tomorrow is the last date of the month that the deposit will cover. my agent says he has agreed to allow the tenant to stay til next week and says they will pay for extra days - but they haven't paid the rent they owe so why should I believe they will pay anything additional???

he will not return my calls, he will not reply to emails. i have to have family members literally ambush him in the office, or stake out until he arrives, in order just to have ANY information from him.

obviously I no longer want to deal with him, but i paid 1 months rent to him to get my initial tenant. since that tenant did not stay for the duration of the lease, he is obliged to get me a new tenant to replace them. I have asked that he simply refund my initial fee as he did not keep his side of the agreement, in that he got me a CRAP tenant. if he would refund me the fee I would happily walk away and get someone else to look after the property. But he refuses. he says he has a new tenant for me. but this new tenant has been supposed to move him for almost 10 days now, and still hasn't and in the mean time he is allowing the old -unpaying- tenants to remain without my permission.

i know about the 28 notice etc, but the current - non-paying- tenant is prepared to move out, it isjust the agent whois allowing them to saty. i want them out as agreed (they were supposed to be out last friday) and leave the house empty til new tenants move in, and have no extra money owed (because I doubt i'll get it!). But my agent simply ignores everything i request, ignores my calls, and will not contact me. My other concern is that since there is no money remaining in the deposit, if there is any damage I will be out of pocket, and all because of his incompetence and lack of professionalism

I am at the end of my tether. With time delays and the expense of calling ireland constantly trying to contact him, I am just worn out! i am now seriously worried about the condition of my house, and the quality of any future tenants he gets me.

Anyone out there with experience, i would REALLY REALLY appreciate any advice or help you can give!

WHAT CAN I DO?????? I feel like i am banging my head against a brick wall! I am only out of my home because I am working abroad for a year - this is my home and I want to return to it when my year is over! I get a pain in my chest everytime i think of what might be happening to my home, and I have NO ONE on my side, looking after my interests!

Please help,someone!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry its such a long post!


----------



## enoxy (9 Jul 2008)

Get rid of tenant, put your experience of the letting fee down to experience and leave your house empty for the rest of the year. Of course you will take a financial hit but you will avoid getting a heart attack which by the tone of your posting sounds where you are going. 

You sound stressed over what is quite a routine problem with tenants and letting agents so I don't think you are cut out to be a landlord. Sorry to be blunt but having family members ambush letting agents doesn't sound like normal behaviour.


----------



## FranceRes (9 Jul 2008)

Your home is probably the most expensive asset you will ever own in your lifetime and for that reason you have to be extremely careful who you give control of it to.

I had an even worse experience with a Letting Agent, where he actually took over 3k of my rental income and even took my tax return, so I know where you're coming from.

The last lot of tenants he let in weren't checked out properly, stopped paying the rent and it took about 6 months and an expensive court order and baliffs to get them out!

I would never use an agent again - we had to as we were also living abroad.  

You don't say where your property is - Daphne Kaye in Foxrock appears to be a very good letting agent - we rented from them in Foxrock and they were very thorough in their vetting of us and carried out 6 weekly checks.

If you have family nearby, get them to look after the property for you.  They should go get the keys from the Agent, with your written authorisation, and should visit the tenants to see what the situation is / when they are moving out and try to collect any outstanding rent. 

It's only for a year and once you get a good tenant in, most of the time there's very little work to do after that.

I have had 2 rental properties in Ireland, now only 1, and haven't had any problems finding tenants myself.  Put an ad in the local paper, Evening Herald if in Dublin, daft.ie is also good.  Get a family member to meet them, show them the property and check them out.

Draw up your own lease - there's a good free one [broken link removed].

Have the rent transferred by the tenant directly into your bank account in Ireland and monitor it via the net.  

You appear to be quite stressed, surely a family member will help you out.


----------



## Confused&Str (9 Jul 2008)

enoxy -  re your comment that I am not cut out to be a landlord?????? as I explained being a landlord is not something I am choosing to do. I cannt afford to leave my home empty and still pay the mortgage.  financially I have no choice but to rent it out.  It is precisely because I do not want to deal with tenants and headaches that I handed the management to an agent.  furthermore I feel it would be irresponsible of me to be a LL when I am not on hand for the tenant, because I am abroad.

Secondly, ambushing him may not be 'normal' behaviour but ignoring calls from your client for three months, not forwarding rent, not replying to emails, blatantly lying to people about who is in their house, that is not normal business behaviour.  I have had no choice but to literally hound this man to get MY money and control of MY house!  you obviously have never been in this situation, as if you had you would understand the feelings of frustration and impotence that it causes.  I am not in a position to just jump on a flight and come home - I am abroad for work purposes and cannot have holiday leave for another month.  So other than ambush him, do you have  another suggestion, or are you just happy to criticize my behaviour? how exactly do you suggest I get him to contact me, other than resorting to this?

If you have no experience of this situation, and can't offer any constructive advice, I'm not sure why you posted??? get rid of tenants - great advice, never thought of that! eh, thats the point - I am not physically there to get rid of them myself, and my agent has not done it yet.  And yes unpaying tenants may be a routine problem, but my post is not about problem tenants, its about incompetent agents and how do you regain control of the situation.  You seem to have missed the point of why I am asking for advice.

FranceRes - thank you for your reply.  I am definitely going to maintain this myself (via a family member) from now on.  I honestly thought that because I was abroad I was doing the sensible thing and allowing someone with experience to look after my most valued assest (not only my assest, but my home, and one I hope to return to within 12-18 mths).  

My property is in NthCounty Dublin by the way.

Yea my stress levels are quite high -  if you were speaking to a brick wall about something so important I'm sure you'd feel the same way!  This man either ignores my calls, or when he does speak to me talks such nonsence, and makes me more stressed because he actually blatantly lies straight out to you.  he even gave me a written guarantee that rent would be paid on Friday and new tenants moving in on Saturday - the rent is still in arrears and the old tenants are still there, with his permission!

I am lucky that my family are trying to help, but they all work office hours, so it is difficult for them to get any more joy than me.  My sister had to take the morning off work today just to nab him in the office and get him to speak to me.  No wonder I'm stressed.  And my phone bill from all this calling and calling is HUGE!


If anyone has and advice on how to turn this situation around, or how to get some recourse after this fiasco I would be very appreciative!


----------



## aircobra19 (9 Jul 2008)

You should have taken it into your own hands once it became apparent the agent was rubbish.


----------



## Confused&Str (9 Jul 2008)

if only it were that simple.  its a bit difficult to take matters into your own hand thousands of miles away.  in addition, the agent owed me rent, and I have an agreement with them - they least they can do is honour it. why should I be out of pocket by over €1000?????

again, sorry if I sound defensive, but I posted for advice and suggestions, not smart comments.  Do you have some advice cos I would appreciate it.  If not, then I don't wuite understand the point of your post?  I know it would be best to have matters in my own hands, but things are more complicated than just saying, never mind, get a new tenant.

The current tenants are in-situ. My managment agent is uncontactable. I am abroad. As the agent has made little effort to comunicate with me, I only have his word that he followed all required regulations in regards to serving them notice.  I have considered getting a family member just to change the locks and inform the police, but I have beedn told that if I were to do this I would be setting myself up for a lot of trouble legally.  The non-paying tenants need to be dealt with through the correct channels.  The agent will most certainly be removed from the loop, but until he gets the current tenants out, it is stupid for me to get rid of him - then I wold simply have squatters and no one to get them out.

anyone actually have some ADVICE or HELPFUL suggestions?


----------



## enoxy (9 Jul 2008)

OP attitude is dismissive to any comments from other posters,  anything written which doesn't sympathise with his sad plight is construed as criticism. You decided to buy a house then live abroad and rent your property out  - you now have a problem as a landlord - up to you to be adult about it and take ownership of the situation and sort it out and not just criticise advice from posters. 

By the way I have properties which I rent out and it's working out beautifully, rent no problem, tenants great. That's what being a professional landlord is all about. By the way taking the letting fee for the year up front out of month 1 rent is quite normal practice - but you will learn these things as you get more experienced as a landlord.


----------



## MrMan (10 Jul 2008)

Confused, Have you registered with the PRTB? Is the letting agent a member of any association IAVI or IPAV? You can threaten the agent with legal action because he has failed considerably to honour his agreement with you so maybe a solicitors letter to him will end this saga. You realise now that you were naive at times but that shouldn't stop you from salvaging something from this, sounds like there is only 3 months gone so organise a letter straight away (extra cost but necessary), or write a letter detailing everything that has gone wrong and forward to a solicitor to ask advice and make agent aware that this has been done. If he doesn't act upon this threat and then you really only have the avenue of using a solicitor left to you from what I can see. You can sue him from loss of income etc. 

From your posts you are stressed and some of your points don't make sense e.g the tenant has agreed to leave but the agent is letting them stay, why would any agent do that? the 1 year fee up front is fairly normal procedure aswell so maybe if you write everything down and look at all of the facts calmly you might not have as big a problem as you think.


----------



## 25euronote (10 Jul 2008)

Interesting thread.

Letting fee for a year up front is normal.  Management fee a year in advance is not.

Check with Licencing authority (For the moment its still with excise - supposed to be changing soon but as of yet its still Dublin Excise) (Ive received a letter over the last couple of weeks telling me to renew my licence in the usual way).

If hes not licenced, report him and explain to the inspector why you are doing it.

Call  the agent and tell him to rectify the situation as instructed immediatly or you will object to the renewal of the licence. (Dont tell him that you have reported him.  Licences are renewed annually around this time of year.

If he is a "proper" letting agent, your deposit must be held in a seperate client account untill its passed on to you.  The rent collected is not covered in the Auctioneers and house agents act so the agent may use this as working capital - quite legally.  However you can go to the gardai and make a complaint about the theft of money.  No doubt the agent will have an excuse, but he will - if you press it -get a call from the gardai.

Did you sign the forms with the PRTB?  

You have up till the expiration of the first six months every entitlement to give the standard notice to vacate.  so do it now , have it hand delivered and sent by registered post to the tenants.  Forget about getting the money back from the tenants. 

Instruct a solicitor to write to the agent looking for a full refund of fees and that the retained deposit be held to cover damages.  Instruct the solicitor to seek compensation.  (You wont get any, but you have to ply on as much pressure as possible so there is room to comprimise later.

In the meantime, if he has no licence, he will be prosecuted, if he has a licence just tell him you will object to the renewal. 

OBJECT to the renewal any way.

If someone treats you with contempt, return the compliment.

I have a policy, a way of life, if you like, and that is I dont threaten any one unless Im prepared to follow it through, and when I decide to follow through, I go all the way, once I start - im not interested in apologies compensation or anything else.

Remember, once the average person threatens someone, they calm down and relent.  In this case leaving the agent free to do the same again to someone else.

By the way, contrary to the other posts, you have every right to be stressed, but the only person to benifit from your stress, is the agent.


----------



## mickpyrmont (10 Jul 2008)

> OP attitude is dismissive to any comments from other posters, anything written which doesn't sympathise with his sad plight is construed as criticism. You decided to buy a house then live abroad and rent your property out - you now have a problem as a landlord - up to you to be adult about it and take ownership of the situation and sort it out and not just criticise advice from posters.
> 
> By the way I have properties which I rent out and it's working out beautifully, rent no problem, tenants great. That's what being a professional landlord is all about. By the way taking the letting fee for the year up front out of month 1 rent is quite normal practice - but you will learn these things as you get more experienced as a landlord.


 
Enoxy That is of no benefit whatsoever, in fairness to the OP he is looking for advise on what to do now that he is in this situation. We can all be smug and say why didnt you do this and that

Confused&Str I have heard this happen before and the cheapest and easiest way out of it for her was to cut her looses with the letting agent, get keys etc back from them and perhaps pay them a visit the next time you are in Ireland

The tenant not paying their rent is a different problem, if in fact they are not paying? Who knows by the sounds of this letting agent he could be pocketing the rent. Id get family to go to aparmtent have a word with the tenants and if they are in fact not paying give them a weeks notice to get out, if not change the locks


----------



## Confused&Str (10 Jul 2008)

MrMan and 25Euro note - thank you for your HELPFUL advice. I have spoken to a solicitor and once I told the agent this yesterday, and pointed out that he (the agent) has a responsibility to me, and my property, and that he is in breech of my management agreement because he is not consulting me regarding matters of importance of my own property, and he ignores my calls. This seems to have given him a bit of a jolt.

When I speak to him (eventually) I am firm but always keep my temper, because I dont want him to have any excuse not to contact me.

As 25euronote says, letting fee for a year is normal - and this I paid. Management fee upfront for a year is not normal practice. Some larger landlords choose this, as the management co look after several of their properties, but for the individual such as me this is unusual - generall you pay the agent 5-10% of the rent each month to manage the property.

MrMan - sorry if my post seems confusing on some points - re: tenant moving out, basically tenant admits they cannot pay rent, and said that they have fallen on hard times financially, and as they know the cannot pay future rent they are happy to move on. However, it is the AGENT who has agreed to allow them to stay until a new tenant is found! they did not request this - he offered it! they are now in the house 1 full month in arrears. The deposit will cover this - not an ideal situation, but at least if theymove out now it will be an end to it. However the AGENT is allowing them to continue to stay - dispite my express instructions that they are not to. He gives me his 'word' that any additional days will be paid by them. But they have not paid up to now, what makes him think they will pay additional days???? I instructed him yesterday, and in writing that there is no permission from me to allow them to stay, they have agreed to move out within 24 hrs notice when new tenant is found, so I told him to give them 24 hrs notice and if they are not out that I will be taking legal action against him.

I am now just waiting to confirm they have moved out - my sister is calling to the house this evening to inventory and check they are moving.

regarding the PRTb - no I have not signed forms with them, but I am in the process of going down that road now.  Agent never got me to sign anything in this regard, not did he advise me of anything liek this.

I agree that I have been quite naive in this situation, but in fairness I went to a company which has been established in my town for 6 yrs, told them that I needed to move abroad in 6-8 wks time, told them that I needed to rent the house, and asked them to a)find me a tenant, b) complete any necessary legal/tax issues on my behalf, and c) manage the property in my absence. It is entirely because of my inexperience and lack of knowledge in this area that I employed an agent - I thought it would be irresponsible of me to rent my house to people when I dont know the law,tax or other issues. being a LL is not a chosen method of extra income for me - its a necessity so that I dont loose my house while I am abroad. and I am abroad, not just cos I fancied tracelling, basically I had the opportunity to get additional exp abroad - which if I had refused the opportunity means that in future I would most likely be passed over when any promotions come up.

I thought I was doing the sensible and responsible thing to go to an agent whos job is to deal with these matters - how wrong was I????

enoxy - your comment:
"OP attitude is dismissive to any comments from other posters, anything written which doesn't sympathise with his sad plight is construed as criticism. You decided to buy a house then live abroad and rent your property out - you now have a problem as a landlord - up to you to be adult about it and take ownership of the situation and sort it out and not just criticise advice from posters."

firstly, I am dismissive of some of the comments because they did not give advice, just made comments which were not in the slightest bit helpful. You say I bought a house and then decided to live abroad - you make it sound like I just waltzed away on a whim. I have lived in my house for 5 years, and I am only away from my home due to necessity, and I will be returning there once my time abroad is finished.

secondly as for "That's what being a professional landlord is all about" well as I have already pointed out to you, I never claimed to be a professional landlord, and nor do I want to be, and this is why I sought the professional assistance of others and was perpared to pay for it.

thirdly - so happy you have wonderful tenants and all in your garden is rosey. When I said you had obviously never been in my situation, you proved me right by your comment. You have never had to deal with an incompetent tenant, and it is not your HOME which is under threat from the incompetence - you obviously rent for financial gain, and not out of necessity. I hope your tenants continue to be wonderful, because if they don't and you run into problems, then being a professional LL may not be so easy.  your smug attitude may come back to bite you one day.

Again MrMan and 25euro note thank you - your comments and advice have been very helpful and I have taken them well and truely on board.


----------



## Confused&Str (10 Jul 2008)

mickypermont - have thought about just going there and getting locks changed etc - but a friend who is a guard has told me that if I do this I may be getting myself into more trouble.  basically, I need to know if the corect notice etc has been served for non-payment of rent.  If it has, then this means that they had 14 days notice to pay, and if they still do not pay they have 28 days to vacate.  Total of 42 days - we are only at day 32, so if I change locks etc before that I am in trouble, and worse still if no notice has been served my sister could be arrested for trespassing if she is the one who changes the locks!  If no notice has been served, then again this is an issue with the agent which I can only pursue legally with a solicitor.

My sister is calling to house tonight, so she will find out for def the reason for no rent being paid.  I would well beleive that he is pocketing the rent - when they moved in I had the house spotless, but i still paid for a cleaner to come in.  I never told agent this. the house was gleaming.  I even left behind some bedlinen I was given as an unwanted present - still in wrappers, and the duvets were folded and left on each bed.  The agent had the cheek to stop €100 from my payment - he said the house needed a cleaning company to come in because it was not clean enough, and that the beds had been slept in!  Of course he got an earful about this, and promptly returned my 'cleaning fee'.  I know there is no way he paid a cleaner €100 so that was money he was trying to sky away for himself, I am sure!

I am def going to go down the solicitor route, but this takes time.  Right now I need to get some action. And I dont want the agent to just walk away scot free.

Anyone got advice in regards to when new tenant moves in (he has til Sat to move a new tenant in, after that taking matters away from him and will seek refund of fees via a solicitor) - what I was wondering is, if the tenant is found by him, and signs lease with me via his co, do I have to issue an amended lease to them once I give him the elbow?  Is it as simple as just getting rid of him and nothing else needs to be done other than get myself registered with PRTB etc?


----------



## leesider29 (10 Jul 2008)

Working in the industry myself and I hate pricks like this giving us all a bad name. Although I will say unless we have set up a special agreement with the landlord then we do ask for the management fee out of the initial month's rent and deposit, it just makes it tidier for us really I suppose! The way this guy is carrying on I would not blame you if you came back for a "holiday" and sorted it out yourself!


----------



## Confused&Str (18 Jul 2008)

quick update - after threatening legal action using the helpful info given to me here and on another forum, I have now had my letting fee refunded.

Current tenants are moving out next week (wanted them out sooner, but as per legal notice period they have til next week) but the upside is agent has paid me in advance the rent they will owe for the additional days, plus an extra weeks rent.

He has a tenant ready to move in a week later, but will not charge me for placing them.  Also i will not be relying on him to check them, I have had their references forwarded to me and I am checking them myself, plus my sister and her husband will meet them to give me their opinion.  If I am not happy with them i will not allow them to move in.

Once the current tenants move out, I will be walking away from this agent.  My sister will be witnessing the inventory and once that is done and all is ok, i will no longer avail of the agent's shoddy services!

The return of the letting fee means that I have some time to find the right tenant, should the one he recommends not be suitable.

I still intend to report him and try to give him trouble when renewing his licence, and I will also name and shame him.  Several of my family are taxi drivers or work in local pub/hotel, so they will be telling everyone what happened and make sure as many people as possible know to avoid him.

thank you to those who gave advice - it was right on the money, and once I mentioned disputing his licence, my rights, getting a solicitor he backed right down, as he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on.  

I have holidays available in 4 weeks, so whomever I get into my house I will be checking on them personally.  

I will update you all should anything else happen - I hope not! the stress of this has nearlt given me a heartattack already.  If I weren't under contract from my employer to stay here, i think I would have just come home already and moved back in myself.  But hopefully going forward, my home or my careeer are no longer under threat!

thanks again - esp MrMan and 25euroNote


----------

