# Oracle shares (annual holding fee with Davy's)



## Whiskey (16 May 2008)

I bought shares in Oracle about 10 years ago for $15 / Share.

I bought them through Davy.

Every year, Davy charge me about 60 euros, it's an annual charge.

It's not a lot of money, but it is 1% of the value of the shares.

I don't know what the fee is for, a few years ago, somebody at Davy's told me that everybody who owns shares in the Nasdaq must pay an annual fee to have the shares held electronically. Is it true ?

Is there any way to avoid the annual fee, I have no intention of selling the shares in the next 10 years, or maybe for the next 25 years.
Is it possible just to get a share cert and cut my ties with Davy.

With my vodafone shares (acquired when Vodafone took over eircell a few years ago), I pay no annual fee to anybody.
I'd prefer to pay no annual fee obviously !


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Whiskey said:


> Is it possible just to get a share cert and cut my ties with Davy.


I doubt that you can get these shares in certificated form. You should be able to transfer your shareholding to another cheaper broker though.


> With my vodafone shares (acquired when Vodafone took over eircell a few years ago), I pay no annual fee to anybody.


How are these held?


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## Whiskey (16 May 2008)

I don't actually know how the vodafone shares are held.

Several thousand Irish people hold their Vodafone shares in the same way as me.

I can log on to see mine on www.computershare.com  , Vodafone sent everybody an activation code about 6 years ago.   

I don't know how I'd go about selling the Vodafone shares (but again I have no intention of selling them in the next 10 years, because I couldn't stomach making a paper loss !)


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## Hobbes T (16 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I doubt that you can get these shares in certificated form. You should be able to transfer your shareholding to another cheaper broker though.
> 
> How are these held?



All Vodafone shares issued as payment for Eircell shares during the takeover, were issued in certificate form. I had my Eircell holding in a nominee account and they exchanged them for certificated shares without my permission.

By allowing you to view your shareholding online, Computershare mislead people into thinking their Vodafone shares are held in a nominee account. But if you go to sell them, they will demand you send them a certificate. If you cant find the certificate, they will charge you around £186 to reverse the sale.

Computershare are the registrar for Vodafone and they generate significant fees through the replacing of lost certificates. A regular trick used by Computershare is to cancel peoples certificates and when the person goes sells the shares they charge you £186 for sending them an invalid certificate on completion of the sale.

I would steer clear of Computershare as their business model seems to be based on preying on naive retail investors.


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## Whiskey (16 May 2008)

Hobbes T said:


> All Vodafone shares issued as payment for Eircell shares during the takeover, were issued in certificate form. I had my Eircell holding in a Computershare nominee account and they exchanged them for certificated shares without my permission.
> 
> Computershare are the registrar for Vodafone and they generate significant fees through the replacing of lost certificates. A regular trick used by Computershare is to cancel peoples certificates and when the person goes sells the shares they charge you £186 for sending them an invalid certificate on completion of the sale.
> 
> I would steer clear of Computershare as their business model seems to be based on preying on naive retail investors.


 

OK, I'm totally naive about a lot of things to do with shares.
I don't recall receiving a share cert for my Vodafone shares five or six years ago (after the takeover).
Should I have received a share cert ? 

I just logged on to computershare , I can see my holding (and very glad I am that they are 30p/share higher than the last time I checked !).

Computershare don't charge me an annual fee (at least I don't think so)

If I were to sell my Vodafone shares, how would I go about it ?


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## Hobbes T (16 May 2008)

Whiskey said:


> OK, I'm totally naive about a lot of things to do with shares.
> I don't recall receiving a share cert for my Vodafone shares five or six years ago (after the takeover).
> Should I have received a share cert ?
> 
> ...



If you log on to Computershare, you will see your holding. That does not mean they they are held by Computershare broker service in a nominee account. The website is misleading. It looks like a broker site because it allows you to trade your shares from the site. But in fact Computershare are the Registrar for Vodafone. Meaning they just maintain the list of shareholders on behalf of Vodafone.

When you log in and see your holding, look carefully for the words "Certificated". If you see those words you will need that piece of paper to sell your shares. If you dont have that piece of paper, you will need to pay around €100 to Computershare for a replacement certificate. This is the case no matter what broker you use.


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Hobbes T said:


> All Vodafone shares issued as payment for Eircell shares during the takeover, were issued in certificate form.


Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that some people I know hold their _Vodafone _shares electronically in a nominee account. 


> Computershare are the registrar for Vodafone and they generate significant fees through the replacing of lost certificates.


Well if people don't hold onto their shares it's hardly the registrar's fault?!


> I would steer clear of Computershare as their business model seems to be based on preying on naive retail investors.


I don't think that this is fair comment to be honest.



Hobbes T said:


> When you log in and see your holding, look carefully for the words "Certificated".


And if you don't see it then surely your shareholding is in some other form - most likely electronic/nominee - which means that part of what you said earlier is wrong?


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Oh - also bear on mind that Vodafone share certificate were reissued a while back due to their capital restructuring. See here.


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## Hobbes T (16 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that some people I know hold their _Vodafone _shares electronically in a nominee account.



That proves nothing. Any broker will accept convert your certificate into electronic form if you post it to them.



ClubMan said:


> Well if people don't hold onto their shares it's hardly the registrar's fault?!


It is, if the person has thrown out their certificate, because computershare issued them a password to log in to their site and view their holding online, misleading them into thinking that is a nominee account.



ClubMan said:


> I don't think that this is fair comment to be honest.



My comment is based on experience. Whats your comment based on?


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Hobbes T said:


> That proves nothing. Any broker will accept convert your certificate into electronic form if you post it to them.


I meant in a *Computershare *nominee account.


> It is, if the person has thrown out their certificate, because computershare issued them a password to log in to their site and view their holding online, misleading them into thinking that is a nominee account.


I disagree. Share certs always have something on them stating that they are a valuable document. If people fail to read this and throw the certs in the bin then that's their own problem.


> My comment is based on experience. Whats your comment based on?


Experience also. I have dealt with them several times and found them helpful and their administrative charges for modification of shares (e.g. when putting some of mine in my wife's name for which they charged nothing) and issuance of replacement shares to be reasonable enough.


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## Hobbes T (16 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Share certs always have something on them stating that they are a valuable document. If people fail to read this and throw the certs in the bin then that's their own problem.



The Vodafone certificate does not have any words to that effect printed on it.

If you have not had experience with Vodafone shares, why are you posting on this topic?


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## ClubMan (16 May 2008)

Hobbes T said:


> The Vodafone certificate does not have any words to that effect printed on it.


I must check again later. I'm pretty sure that either the cert or the covering letter does. Anyway - what sort of idiot throws share certs in the bin? Have you ever done this yourself by any chance?


Hobbes T said:


> If you have not had experience with Vodafone shares, why are you posting on this topic?


Er - read the thread title and my posts!


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## Whiskey (16 May 2008)

Thanks a lot.

All the answers here were extremely helpful, and if there is one idiot in this thread, it's me frankly.

Tell you what, this is a phenominally good website, if I had known about it a couple of years ago, I would have dealt with a few financial issues a bit more prudently.


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## Mares (16 May 2008)

Hi all, I am certainly no expert but I believe that Irish and UK shares can be held using paper certificates but all other shares - European, American, etc. MUST be held in a nominee account and not in paper format.  

I know this since I had some European shares from work that I wanted to just get a paper certificate for but was advised that it was not possible!


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## Whiskey (16 May 2008)

Mares said:


> Hi all, I am certainly no expert but I believe that Irish and UK shares can be held using paper certificates but all other shares - European, American, etc. MUST be held in a nominee account and not in paper format.
> 
> I know this since I had some European shares from work that I wanted to just get a paper certificate for but was advised that it was not possible!


 

Do nominee account always incur an annual fee ?

It's unfortunate having to pay a fee for a nominee account for people who have no intention of selling their shares - their capital is being chewed away every year on fees. Like for instance my Oracle Shares have cost me possibly 500 euros in Nominee fees in 10 years, which is 10% of the value of the shares, and I have derived no benefit from having a Nominee account, as I never wanted to sell.
I suppose for large shareholders, the Nominee fee is insignificant.


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## charttrader (16 May 2008)

_I don't know what the fee is for, a few years ago, somebody at Davy's told me that everybody who owns shares in the Nasdaq must pay an annual fee to have the shares held electronically. Is it true ?

Do nominee account always incur an annual fee ?

It's unfortunate having to pay a fee for a nominee account for people who have no intention of selling their shares - their capital is being chewed away every year on fees. Like for instance my Oracle Shares have cost me possibly 500 euros in Nominee fees in 10 years, which is 10% of the value of the shares, and I have derived no benefit from having a Nominee account, as I never wanted to sell._ 

You should get out of Davy and stop this pointless diminution of your holding.  There are plenty US brokers who will allow you to park your shares without annual charges and the like.  You will probably have to pay Davy an account closure fee or some such nonsense - Irish brokers' list of fees is absurdly long - but it will still be a lot cheaper than paying that annual fee.   Threads below detail the offerings of various international and Irish brokers. 

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=32521

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=6629


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## makko (19 May 2008)

Why can't the OP get the Oracle shares in certificated from from Davys? I'm hve an online a/c with them and I can request certs for any shares they are holding on my behalf for about €20 each..


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## Raskolnikov (19 May 2008)

€50 a year "maintenance" is absolute robbery.

Tell them you want to get the actual paper certificates. If they try and fob you off, then sell your shares and repurchase them with another broker.

I know that [broken link removed] offer a small trades facility that let's you buy up to €10,000 worth of shares for a flat rate fee of €50. They issue you with paper certificates which you can hold without any annual charges. I used them because they're hassle free and there's no charge to transfer money to them (unlike U.S. brokers).

Other than trading with them, I have no affiliation with the company.


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