# Job Reference - so hard to get!



## HelenQ (14 Oct 2006)

I had an interview with 02 about 2 weeks ago and I was pleased enough with the interview which I thought went well.  The position is in customer care.  
I rang my last employer for a written reference last week, he told me it would be next week and still no sign of it. Just to explain, this man is a Solicitor and the most antal retentive man alive, a law unto himself it seems.  The agency through whom I applied were asked to check my references, all my other referrees were fine and gave a good refrence for me however, when they rang my last Employer he wouldn't talk to them. He is very blunt  - well actually ignorant.  He doesnt speak to agencies it seems. I only found this out today so the girl in the agency led me to believe that she couldnt get in contact with him and only today told me that that he told her he doesnt talk to agencies! 
I rang him today to ask yet again for a written reference and he said that he wouldnt be in a position to do it until Monday and I said that I really really needed it as I so wanted to get this job. No amount of pleading could get him to budge. I know in my heart and soul he wont do it on Monday either or any Monday.  He cant be bothered. This is common practice with him - he never sticks to his word.  He just doesnt care. I left in January for maternity leave. I didn't go back but gave my notice about 3 weeks ago. He said he wasn't expecting me back _(surprising as I hadn't made up my mind if I would go back!)_ but he also told me he would send me my P45.  No sign of that either. 
Its so fustrating. I worked back so many times, without pay of course. I worked Saturdays anything asked to do I did it.  
I can say good bye to that job in 02. It was evening work which would be fantastic for me with a baby which my dh and I were waiting 7 years for and had to undergo 4 IVF's to achieve. 
If I go for other positions without a reference from him it looks bad even though I was always obliging, but have nothing to show for it.  
What can I do about this situation?  I am dealing with a very difficult man and without a reference I cannot progress into another position despite what other referees would say for me.


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## Bazoo (14 Oct 2006)

Hi Helen

What an awful position to be in. It sounds like he's not even listening to you when you ring him and he obviously thinks that as you have left, there are no repurcussions if he simply suits himself and doesn't have to see you again as you're not coming back. As a solicitor, I assume that all he would have to do would be to dictate a reference and have his secretary type it up and then sign it himself (if he could be bothered). Why don't you suggest to him that you'll write your own reference, bring it in to him to read and then all he has to do is sign it? He may agree to get you off his back or the fact that you suggest coming into the office may stir him into action. If this doesn't work, I'd go into the office anyway. Let him know you mean business. You shouldn't have to lose out on a job because of one ignorant individual. Keep persisting.


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## ArthurP (14 Oct 2006)

If it is illegal to give a bad reference surely it must be illegal to refuse to give a reference at all?

I am not an expert but that was the first thought that came it my mind having read your dilema.

ArthurP


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## Bazoo (14 Oct 2006)

It's not illegal to refuse to give a reference. It's generally what people do if they feel they can't give a good reference and the potential employer draws their own conclusions from this. In Helen's case, it sounds like her ex-employer isn't refusing to give her a reference, just that he couldn't be bothered. The result is probably the same.


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## aleefula (14 Oct 2006)

Just a thought. If you have a good relationship with your other employers, could you not strike him out of your CV and ask your prior employer if you could say that you were in that job longer?? If not I definitively suggest taking a field trip to that firm, sit all day in the reception with the letter until he signs it.


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## ajapale (14 Oct 2006)

HelenQ,

Please do not duplicate posts. I have removed the duplicate post.

aj


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## HelenQ (14 Oct 2006)

Apologies for the duplication, I assumed I was in two different sites.

Its a case of the more I ask the less inclined I am to get it = the reference I mean.  Its so fustrating.  Not getting a ref from your last employer does not look good no matter how you explain that he is a difficult man to deal with.  If I go into the office he would leave me sit there and then walk out without dealing with the issue.  This is one arrogent man.  

Still I will keep pestering him as I am entitled to it.  I was a good employee and of course I still need my P45 too.  He cant refuse me that.

But thank you all for the responses.  

H


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## Afuera (16 Oct 2006)

Very frustrating situation for you, I'm sure.

Contact the tax office about the failure of your old empoyer to give you a P45.

As for the work reference, maybe inquire with the agency you're dealing with if it's acceptable to just get confirmation of the time you've worked there, rather than a full reference.

This can be standard procedure in some jobs where they have a policy of not giving references (I think they don't want to be held responsible should someone fail to get a job based on the reference they provide). The agency should be able to call and ask "Did X work here from the dates Y to Z"? This would confirm (to some extent) that the details on your CV are correct and may be enough for the agency to proceed with things. The fact that he has said he won't talk to agencies has probably already set alarm bells off on their side of things and they wouldn't want to deal with him any more than they have to either.

Best of luck.


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## pat127 (16 Oct 2006)

HelenQ said:


> Still I will keep pestering him as I am entitled to it. I was a good employee and of course I still need my P45 too. He cant refuse me that.
> 
> But thank you all for the responses.
> 
> H


 
You are entitled to your P45, Helen - for full details see 

Unfortunately you are not actually entitled to a reference. The only rule is that if an employer agrees to give you one, it cannot contain untruths. Pestering him or sitting in his office all day until he signs could actually be counter-productive. You should also note that in many instances someone intending to offer you a job will ring your old employer and as the call is not recorded, a more frank description of your abilities and performance may be available! Knowing this, many employers have no hesitation in giving you something in writing.

I can't advise you further I'm afraid. Did you speak to him face-to-face about the reference? Is he miffed because you have decided to leave? If he's adverse to giving a reference to an agency, would he respond better to your prospective employer calling him? Other Forum members might disagree but I'd wonder if you'd be any worse off telling the new employer about your situation.


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## ontour (16 Oct 2006)

I would be very surprised if your new employer really required this reference as has been stated above there are many employers now that have a policy of not issuing references so it is usually not make or break in getting a job.  

Best course of action is to contact the agency and ask them if it is really needed.  The other possibility is whether there is someone else other than that solicitor that could give you a reference for that job. ..but I am guessing that he is a one man show !

Chase the agency as evening customer care work would have a high turnover and your eagerness to acquire the job should negate any concerns regarding the absence of a single reference.


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## HelenQ (16 Oct 2006)

Thanks ontour

but I did some research and found this link

http://www.irishjobs.ie/clients/workwise.asp?URL=http://www.irishjobs.ie/ForumWW/WWIndividualArticle.aspx?ParentID=80&CID=132&ForumTypeID=1990 

which I hope will help those in a similiar situation to me.

So much for promising me he would do it Monday i.e. today.  I found out he didn't  - he is doing this on purpose now.

H


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## pat127 (17 Oct 2006)

HelenQ said:


> I did some research and found this link
> 
> http://www.irishjobs.ie/clients/workwise.asp?URL=http://www.irishjobs.ie/ForumWW/WWIndividualArticle.aspx?ParentID=80&CID=132&ForumTypeID=1990
> 
> ...


 
Only if those people, or you indeed, choose to take an employer to court for failure to provide a reference  or because the one provided is inaccurate.


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