# Solicitor fees for Land Registry



## lauradryeye (24 May 2013)

Hi all,

I hope someone can help as I am getting confused...

Myself and my partner are in the process of buying a house, everything was going pretty smoothly until yesterday when we were informed that the deeds are not registered in the correct system.

We initially got this quote from our solicitor:

Professional fee: 995 EUR + VAT
Land Registry Fees on Deed: 600 EUR
Land Registry Fees on Mortgage: 175 EUR
Title Searches (estimated) : 102.71 EUR
Commissioner for Oaths Fees: 20 EUR
Land Registry Fee for new folio and map: 40 EUR

Total: 2860 EUR

So now the solicitor is coming back saying that because the title is an old type Registry of Deeds and needs to be registered in the Land Registry, there will be an additional cost of:

Professional fee: 450 EUR + VAT
Registry of deed fee: 50 EUR
Land Registry fee: 500 EUR
Up to datefolio and file plan: 5 EUR
Commissioner for Oath Fees: 40 EUR
Searches (estimated): 200 EUR

Total: 1350 EUR

The solicitor is saying that it is unusual to have this type of title and that the extra cost should be passed on to the vendor. We have talked to our EA who said it's not true and that she should have quoted this in the first place. We are FTB and don't have a clue..Any insight?
Also, I don't understand the breakdown of the fees are some of them seems to be for the same thing. Please help us understand!


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## Negotiator (24 May 2013)

Firstly I can't understand why there would be a second charge for land registry and I certainly wouldn't expect to be billed for an additional professional fee. You were quoted the fee for doing the conveyancing for the property....period!

He's probably trying to conjure up some extra fees in the hope that the vendor will cough up for them as they will want to complete the sale ASAP and will obviously be in funds!

I wouldn't be agreeable to the extra costs!


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## Vanilla (24 May 2013)

lauradryeye said:


> The solicitor is saying that it is unusual to have this type of title and that the extra cost should be passed on to the vendor. We have talked to our EA who said it's not true and that she should have quoted this in the first place.


 
EA is wrong. Solicitor is right.

Clearly when the solicitor received the title, they saw that it is unregistered, Registry of Deeds title. Less than 10% of the title in Ireland is this type. All the rest is Land registry which is what the solicitor quoted for originally.

Registry of Deeds title became compulsarily registrable by law over the last few years so now the purchaser of any property with this type of title must make an application for first registration. This entails first registering it in the Registry of Deeds and then making a second application in the Land Registry. In fact the fees your solicitor is quoting for the First Registration are very low and I would have quoted much more. I also agree that the Vendor should pay for some if not all of this secondary cost and this is normal. The EA should come on board and do some work now in negotiating this instead of making obviously wrong comments of something they clearly know nothing about.

Some of the fees on the first estimate of costs will no longer be applicable btw- the land registry fee of 600 will no longer be applicable and the search costs will also be as per the second quote, not the first.


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## Negotiator (24 May 2013)

In fairness if there's a 1 in 10 chance of this coming up the solicitor should have highlighted this right from the outset. It's very unfair to throw in the 'oh by the way' situation after the client has engaged in his services.

While Vanilla may think the fees quoted were cheap as he's perfectly entitled to do, it's worth mentioning that there are companies in Ireland that will do conveyancing for about €650 flat rate plus vat & outlays and the old argument from the legal profession that 'you get what you pay for' doesn't necessarily hold true here as the chances are these guys will be doing a lot more conveyancing than an average solicitor's practice as that's all they do day in day out!


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## Vanilla (24 May 2013)

It's not a one in 10 chance. Less than 10% of the land mass of Ireland is unregistered. But the vast majority of that is large sections of land registered to one person. 

When a solicitor is asked to give an estimate, it is always before receiving contracts. They therefore quote on the 'usual' title, and normally have a proviso in their estimate stating so. It's not an 'oh by the way'- it's the solicitor receiving contracts, seeing something unusual and highlighting this immediately to the client. 

If the Vendor pays for the cost then it is no additional cost to the purchaser, a point you seem to be missing.


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## lauradryeye (26 May 2013)

Thank you both for the advice, I will ask the solicitor to clarify the exact new quote and hopefully the EA will co-operate..


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## Negotiator (27 May 2013)

Vanilla said:


> If the Vendor pays for the cost then it is no additional cost to the purchaser, a point you seem to be missing.





Negotiator said:


> He's probably trying to conjure up some extra fees in the hope that the vendor will cough up for them



^^^^^According to my first post I don't think I'm missing the point at all, and just because the Vendor may be picking up the tab doesn't excuse the solicitor for not highlighting this potential issue to the OP from the outset!


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## Bronte (28 May 2013)

lauradryeye said:


> The solicitor is saying that it is unusual to have this type of title and that the extra cost should be passed on to the vendor. We have talked to our EA who said it's not true and that she should have quoted this in the first place. We are FTB and don't have a clue..Any insight?
> !


 
It's correct that you could reduce the price you're paying to reflect the extra legal costs. But that might only upset the vendors and no need for that. €1500 fees looks high to me, you don't have to go with that solicitor if you think you can do better elsewhere. If a solicitor gave you a quote in the first place I would expect them to honour it, so it leaves a bit of a sour taste. He could have pointed out that the fees would be higher if the title wasn't standard. Did you get a S68 letter from the solicitor?


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## lauradryeye (28 May 2013)

I only got an email with estimated costs the first time. In fairness the solicitor did mention that these could vary, but I didn't think that it could vary that much..
She sent me a new full quote and the first Land Registry fee doesn't apply anymore as Vanilla pointed out, so the extra cost now is about 800 euros.
We do feel that it is an embarassing situation having to ask to vendor to pay for OUR solicitor fees but she is saying that it is the norm..


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## Negotiator (28 May 2013)

That equates to nearly a 30% increase on your original quote.....not exactly what I would call a small variation!!

However it's damage limitation now so try your best to get the vendor to pay for it, they won't want to risk losing the sale of the property over €800 so hold firm on that!

Good luck!


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## T McGibney (28 May 2013)

Negotiator said:


> That equates to nearly a 30% increase on your original quote.....not exactly what I would call a small variation!!



That's utterly irrelevant. There is more work to be done than originally envisaged by either party, and accordingly quoted for.    It would be ridiculous to force the solicitor to complete two separate assignments in return for a price they had quoted for one assignment, especially as we know now that the solicitor did point out to the OP the possibility of cost variations.


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## Negotiator (28 May 2013)

T McGibney said:


> It would be ridiculous to force the solicitor to complete two separate assignments in return for a price they had quoted for one assignment



Perhaps you're right TMcG, that's why I would strongly recommend getting a company that specializes in conveyancing to do the work instead because they are more geared up to do these types of jobs......and for a lower fee!


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## putsch (28 May 2013)

lauradryeye said:


> I only got an email with estimated costs the first time. In fairness the solicitor did mention that these could vary, but I didn't think that it could vary that much..
> She sent me a new full quote and the first Land Registry fee doesn't apply anymore as Vanilla pointed out, so the extra cost now is about 800 euros.
> We do feel that it is an embarassing situation having to ask to vendor to pay for OUR solicitor fees but she is saying that it is the norm..



I recently bought a property with unregistered title. The solicitor quoted his fee not knowing whether it was registered or not (though being an experienced solicitor he possibly made an educated guess as its not rocket science to know which properties might be unregistered). He made no extra charge or even considered it. I did say something like "oh god is that extra work?" and he said "not at all - Land registry is easy to deal with nowadays". So no extra charge and no idea at all that vendor should be responsible. I find the circumstances outlined quite bizarre.


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## Bronte (29 May 2013)

lauradryeye said:


> . In fairness the solicitor did mention that these could vary,


 
Well that changes things, your solicitor did not give you a set fee really, and pointed out that it could vary so you were warned. I think that's fair enough. 

You still have the option to change solicitor if you think it's too high, or reduce the purchase price to take account of the extra fees, but if the solicitor had known the full title issue, the fees would in any case be what they are now so that's not really the vendor's fault.

BTW did you get a quotation from anybody else?


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## Negotiator (29 May 2013)

putsch said:


> I recently bought a property with unregistered title. The solicitor quoted his fee not knowing whether it was registered or not (though being an experienced solicitor he possibly made an educated guess as its not rocket science to know which properties might be unregistered). He made no extra charge or even considered it. I did say something like "oh god is that extra work?" and he said "not at all - Land registry is easy to deal with nowadays". So no extra charge and no idea at all that vendor should be responsible. I find the circumstances outlined quite bizarre.



Interesting, looks like you engaged the services of a decent solicitor who doesn't make a mountain out of a molehill, an example of good customer service!

Just because a solicitor is 'perfectly within their right' or 'entitled' to charge an additional fee for this doesn't mean that they actually have to, something that is completely lost on people who don't have a proper understanding of good customer service!

Look at the contrasting examples above, one has left a bad taste in the client's mouth and the other seems very happy indeed. So which one is more likely to get repeat business?  And some solicitors wonder why they are on their knees with not enough clients!!


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## T McGibney (29 May 2013)

Negotiator said:


> And some solicitors wonder why they are on their knees with not enough clients!!



Many solicitors (and others) are on their knees because they've built practices by charging uneconomic fees while hiring expensive staff. Its no good being busy if you're a busy fool.


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## PolkaDot (17 Jul 2013)

Bumping this thread rather than starting a new one. 

I recently closed on the purchase of a house. My solicitor is now advising me that the following is due to Property Registration Authority:

Land Registry fee on consideration of €240,000.   €700.00
Land Registry fee for registration of mortgage.     €175.00
Land Registry fee confirming you both as owner.   € 40.00


Total due to Property Registration Authority €915.00

This is much higher than I had expected. I remember when making enquiries with solicitors last year they indicated that the Land Registery Fees would come to about €500-600 for a mortgage of this amount? Note the €240k above is the purchase price.

Has there been any changes to the fee structure recently?

Is there anywhere that the fees can be checked or are clearly listed? The PRA's website is not very helpful.

Cheers


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## PolkaDot (17 Jul 2013)

I found the answer to my own question:
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...e-in-cost-of-registering-house-sales-1.546035

Shocking increases and the way in which they were applied in the different price brackets doesn't make sense.


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## mf1 (17 Jul 2013)

All set out below

New fees came in on 1.12.2012


http://www.prai.ie/eng/Legal_Profes...ummary_of_Land_Registry_Fees_Order_20121.html


mf


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## Rainey (4 Sep 2014)

*Looking for conveyancing solicitor for unregistered property*



putsch said:


> I recently bought a property with unregistered title. The solicitor quoted his fee not knowing whether it was registered or not (though being an experienced solicitor he possibly made an educated guess as its not rocket science to know which properties might be unregistered). He made no extra charge or even considered it. I did say something like "oh god is that extra work?" and he said "not at all - Land registry is easy to deal with nowadays". So no extra charge and no idea at all that vendor should be responsible. I find the circumstances outlined quite bizarre.



Putsch, could you email me your solicitor's contact details pls? Txs


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## Rainey (9 May 2016)

putsch said:


> I recently bought a property with unregistered title. The solicitor quoted his fee not knowing whether it was registered or not (though being an experienced solicitor he possibly made an educated guess as its not rocket science to know which properties might be unregistered). He made no extra charge or even considered it. I did say something like "oh god is that extra work?" and he said "not at all - Land registry is easy to deal with nowadays". So no extra charge and no idea at all that vendor should be responsible. I find the circumstances outlined quite bizarre.


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