# Modular build



## Simian (21 Nov 2018)

I am interested to know if anybody used modular build to extend a house (seen how cheaper it would cost) interested especially to know if the banks approve a remortgage for that,?


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## kceire (27 Nov 2018)

What do you mean by modular build?


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## Simian (27 Nov 2018)

Modular Build is a house that gets built abroad, and then when ready, they come and assemble it like a jigsaw puzzle. you have to hire someone to build the platform before too.


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## mathepac (27 Nov 2018)

There are Irish firms that manufacture and supply modular buildings too, timber-frame and other forms. Some supply windows, internal & external doors, insulation, fire-stops, etc etc.


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## Simian (28 Nov 2018)

The cost is the issue, how much per square meter and how does that compare to the conventional build that is costing now up to 2200 euro per square meter?


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## Leo (28 Nov 2018)

I'd imagine that much like conventional builds, there is quite a range in terms of quality and price, right up to the likes of Baufritz at ~€1,500+installation to Huf Haus that can cost more than €2,500/sqm.


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## kceire (29 Nov 2018)

Simian said:


> Modular Build is a house that gets built abroad, and then when ready, they come and assemble it like a jigsaw puzzle. you have to hire someone to build the platform before too.



Now that I know what your understanding of what modular build is, why do you think its not common practice in Ireland at the moment?
The cost and remedial works in order to make the imported panels comply with our Building Regulations make it more expensive than traditional building methods.

Currently, traditional methods of construction is by far the cheapest way of building in Ireland and I say that as 99.9% of people that go on about Modular Builds think they cost less.

Ignoring aesthetics and planning and development concerns any "Modular System" style can be made comply with the building regulations - but the cheapest ways of doing so are the currently used methods!

And the building regulations are there to protect us all from the likes of fire, structural collapse, dampness, illness due to polluted water and poor air quality. And to make buildings suitable for when each of us gets old, infirm, pregnant, hard of sight, etc., etc. Bypassing them in order to provide a quick, cheap fix is not something that makes sense.


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## mathepac (29 Nov 2018)

@kceire, I don't know the source of your information but Kingspan in Monaghan (for example) has a division (formerly Century Homes) that designs and manufactures modular homes offsite for installation on a pre-built concrete foundation/plinth. Their products have full
NSAI Agrément Certification. They're (as Century Home and as Kingspan Century) in business in Ireland for the last 40 years.

I have no connection with them and just offer them as an example of innovative advancements in building technology in Ireland.

https://www.kingspan.com/irl/en-ie/...tem/engineered-timber-frame-systems/downloads

https://www.kingspan.com/irl/en-ie/...timber-system/engineered-timber-frame-systems


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## Purple (29 Nov 2018)

kceire said:


> Now that I know what your understanding of what modular build is, why do you think its not common practice in Ireland at the moment?
> The cost and remedial works in order to make the imported panels comply with our Building Regulations make it more expensive than traditional building methods.
> 
> Currently, traditional methods of construction is by far the cheapest way of building in Ireland and I say that as 99.9% of people that go on about Modular Builds think they cost less.
> ...


That's complete nonsense.
Building regulations in Ireland are not better than those in Germany or the UK. There are already distributors in Ireland such as scanhome.ie providing prefabricated one-off houses which are manufactured in Sweden. 
Is anyone seriously suggesting that one of the large European or North American manufacturers are going to refuse an order for a half a billion Euro on the grounds that they cannot meet Irish building regulations? 
Is anyone seriously suggesting that Modular homes are not as aesthetically pleasing as those built using our current Dickensian construction methods?
We have a massive labour shortage in the construction sector. For that reason alone we should be looking at this option. That fact that you get a higher quality product (could  anything we worse than the shoddy rubbish that Irish builders produce?) at a lower cost and a shorter lead-time is a bonus.


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## kceire (1 Dec 2018)

mathepac said:


> @kceire, I don't know the source of your information but Kingspan in Monaghan (for example) has a division (formerly Century Homes) that designs and manufactures modular homes offsite for installation on a pre-built concrete foundation/plinth. Their products have full
> NSAI Agrément Certification. They're (as Century Home and as Kingspan Century) in business in Ireland for the last 40 years.
> 
> I have no connection with them and just offer them as an example of innovative advancements in building technology in Ireland.
> ...



They are timber framed homes. I don’t think the OP is classing timber frame as modular. 

Timber frame construction is no cheaper than brick/block built houses currently so I think the OP will not be interested in them. 

Timber frame has been around a long time as you suggest. I built one in 2006 and lives in it for 10 years. That frame was IJM if you remember them. Brick external leaf obviously.


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## kceire (1 Dec 2018)

Purple said:


> That's complete nonsense.
> Building regulations in Ireland are not better than those in Germany or the UK. There are already distributors in Ireland such as scanhome.ie providing prefabricated one-off houses which are manufactured in Sweden.
> Is anyone seriously suggesting that one of the large European or North American manufacturers are going to refuse an order for a half a billion Euro on the grounds that they cannot meet Irish building regulations?
> Is anyone seriously suggesting that Modular homes are not as aesthetically pleasing as those built using our current Dickensian construction methods?
> We have a massive labour shortage in the construction sector. For that reason alone we should be looking at this option. That fact that you get a higher quality product (could  anything we worse than the shoddy rubbish that Irish builders produce?) at a lower cost and a shorter lead-time is a bonus.



Why are they not mass produced?
Because costs are either the same or more expensive. 

Most people looking for info on modular homes, assume they are cheaper than traditional build when they are not.


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## fidelcastro (1 Dec 2018)

kceire said:


> Why are they not mass produced?
> Because costs are either the same or more expensive.
> 
> Most people looking for info on modular homes, assume they are cheaper than traditional build when they are not.




You'll find so called modular homes are mass produced on the Continent. They learnt how to do this decades ago - unfortunately our approach is to subsidise the grand sheiks of this world by continuing to build poor housing by any comparable international standard.

Are we seriously to believe that on-site hand building is superior, faster or cheaper than robotic laser guided machinery assembly?

I know what a right angle looks like and its not what an Irish builder thinks it is.

Fidel


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## Bronte (2 Dec 2018)

Center Parcs are constructing a holiday park and will be using modular homes from a company in Ulster who can out up three of them a week. 1500 in a year is the current aim. And the company is expanding and ramping up production.

I also read an article that Dublin wants at allow people built chalets/modular homes if their gardens are suitable to help ease the housing crisis.


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## Purple (3 Dec 2018)

kceire said:


> Why are they not mass produced?
> Because costs are either the same or more expensive.
> 
> Most people looking for info on modular homes, assume they are cheaper than traditional build when they are not.


They are mass produced. Germany and the USA have used this method for generations. The Germans used modular technology to rebuilt their country after the Second World War.
The more up-front capital investment the lower the labour cost of manufacture on the product. That's why car companies spend hundreds of millions developing robotic assisted assembly lines. Cars are far more complex, with a far larger supply chain to integrate, than houses. The reason we don't see more of it in this country is because we don't have the economies of scale to have a significant indigenous industry so we'd be importing a large proportion of the product and because at the large scale end our construction sector has traditionally operated in a relatively closed market with limited competition and so is better at political lobbying and grant harvesting than actually being efficient.


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## fidelcastro (3 Dec 2018)

Further to Purples assertions, some of the Nordic countries, which are small in population are self sufficient in "modular" house building. 

To equate an Irish build to a Finnish house is frankly hilarious. Locals who visit Ireland return with stories about strange heating systems, terrible showers and terrible damp ridden houses, which over there are condemned for health reasons.

Thanks for the laugh all the same, perhaps visit when the temperature is -30c.

Fidel


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## Buddyboy (4 Dec 2018)

Examples of modular houses that I'm aware of, (and love aesthetically) are Deltec in America, and Huff haus in Germany.

Would they be cheaper than a build on site here? I don't know, but sometimes if you factor in either the rental cost of living somewhere else while you wait for your house to be build on site, or the disruption when your extension is being build on site, it might be worth it for the convenience.

There was a good Grand Designs program where the couple bought a Huff Haus and had it built in England.  It showed the process of buying and spec'ing the house in Germany and having it erected on site in England.

And I know of one extension in Ireland that is built by Deltec in the US and erected on site here.


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## Blackrock1 (4 Dec 2018)

fidelcastro said:


> Further to Purples assertions, some of the Nordic countries, which are small in population are self sufficient in "modular" house building.
> 
> To equate an Irish build to a Finnish house is frankly hilarious. Locals who visit Ireland return with stories about strange heating systems, terrible showers and terrible damp ridden houses, which over there are condemned for health reasons.
> 
> ...



a modern irish A rated house has strange heating, terrible showers and damp?

tell me more....


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## Leo (4 Dec 2018)

Blackrock1 said:


> a modern irish A rated house has strange heating, terrible showers and damp?



What percentage of the Irish housing stock is A rated?


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## Blackrock1 (4 Dec 2018)

Leo said:


> What percentage of the Irish housing stock is A rated?



No idea but anything built in the last few years is A rated and they are Irish houses are they not ?

Some  of Our old housing stock is rubbish but our new housing stock certainly isn’t


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## Leo (4 Dec 2018)

Blackrock1 said:


> No idea but anything built in the last few years is A rated and they are Irish houses are they not ?
> 
> Some  of Our old housing stock is rubbish but our new housing stock certainly isn’t



I'd imagine that was the point, they've just been doing it a lot longer.


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## fidelcastro (4 Dec 2018)

Blackrock1 said:


> a modern irish A rated house has strange heating, terrible showers and damp?
> 
> tell me more....





Leo said:


> I'd imagine that was the point, they've just been doing it a lot longer.



Exactly . Outside of city apartments, houses are pre built in factories and assembled quickly on site. 
This has been happening for decades. You can achieve greater air tightness and precision of assembly this way. Nobody would argue a hand built Toyota would be built as well as a robotic assembly , so what's the difference?.

Granted the latest A builds have begrudgingly incorporated & accepted the need for improvements, but they are few and far , alot of Celtic tiger "new' builds achieve a C BER rating which is quite shocking.
Prior to this D ratings are very very common. 

Your talking about c. 95% of the housing stock, which yes, these are experiences reported amusingly to me when conversation turns to immersion heaters , hot water tanks , bathrooms with funny showers , victorian era hot & cold taps rather than mixed, or why open hearth fires with great big bloody  holes to the sky are common here.

F.


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