# FF Ministers for Agriculture



## odyssey06 (20 Aug 2020)

Like drummers in a rock band.
Live life on the edge...








						Calleary apologises for attending golf society function
					

Minister for Agriculture Dara Calleary has apologised for attending an event with more than 80 people, which may have breached public health guidelines.




					www.rte.ie


----------



## odyssey06 (21 Aug 2020)

Apparently he is going to resign. I hope the attendees are self isolating too.

Phil Hogan flew in from brussels for the event ... no mention of him quarantining either.


----------



## Peanuts20 (21 Aug 2020)

Seemingly it technically did not breech the guidelines since it was held in 2 rooms. Regardless of that, he was an utter plonker to attend. 

Somewhere in Ireland today a priest is telling a family that they can't have more then 50 people at a funeral, there are events and memorial masses queued up to happen left right and centre and people are doing the decent thing and not having them, 

Oireachtas Golf society should be scrapped as a result of this and if there was an election next week, that event has probably handed power to the Shinners. 

What a bunch of self centering arrogant.............


----------



## Ceist Beag (21 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Phil Hogan flew in from brussels for the event ... no mention of him quarantining either.


If this is true then surely Phil Hogan should be the next in line now that Dara has resigned? It was a really poor judgement call by Calleary but I believe his genuine apology. 
Hogan on the other hand is just brazenly flouting the mandatory requirement to restrict his movements for 14 days on top of the decision to attend an indoor event that is prohibited. The arrogance of the man...


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

One rule for some  and another rule for the rest of us . But this has always been the case and it will never change no matter who is in power.


----------



## Sunny (21 Aug 2020)

I just find the whole thing extremely funny. EU Commissioners, Supreme Court Judges, Government Ministers, Senators.........All brought down by one of the most boring events in the social calendar. A golf society dinner....

It is the arrogance of it. Look how clever we are with a partition wall.....


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (21 Aug 2020)

Clare Byrne should interview Sean O'Rourke.


----------



## odyssey06 (21 Aug 2020)

Wanted.
New Minister for Agriculture.
Must be based west of Shannon.
No golfers or team sports people.
Must not have holiday home abroad.
Full licence.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (21 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Phil Hogan flew in from brussels for the event ...


not sure about that.  He was spotted in Leinster House last week


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (21 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Wanted.
> New Minister for Agriculture.
> Must be based west of Shannon.
> No golfers or team sports people.
> ...


That rules out all except Sinn Fein


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

If the present Government carries on like they are at the moment , Sinn Fein WILL be in power next time , god help us


----------



## joe sod (21 Aug 2020)

The only problem is that with this new righteousness associated with ministers and covid we end up with totally incompetent inexperienced but goody two shoes ministers, Norma Foley being a case in point she ticks all the politically correct boxes but is totally out of her depth as minister for education, she is depending on Michael Martin to do the heavy lifting for her


----------



## Sunny (21 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> The only problem is that with this new righteousness associated with ministers and covid we end up with totally incompetent inexperienced but goody two shoes ministers, Norma Foley being a case in point she ticks all the politically correct boxes but is totally out of her depth as minister for education, she is depending on Michael Martin to do the heavy lifting for her



I don't really understand the criticism of Norma Foley. She has been quiet but I think people are just waiting for her to mess up which is strange. She has one of the hardest briefs in the short term with the leaving cert results and getting schools re-opened. If she has been quiet because she has been getting on top of her brief then I think that is a good thing. I will give her a pass for now. Stephen Donnolly however.....A living example of being articulate doesn't mean you are intelligent....


----------



## Firefly (21 Aug 2020)

This is exceptionally poor if true:

_A person staying at the hotel with his family told The Irish Times he saw no evidence of social distancing when he witnessed the attendees arriving._
“No masks. No distancing,” said the witness who asked that his name not be used.
..
“At the reception people were being introduced to each other and shaking hands. No distancing and no masks. We were flabbergasted.” 









						Golf dinner fallout: Controversy compromises key public health messages – Taoiseach
					

Calleary and Buttimer resign, gardaí begin investigation




					www.irishtimes.com


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (21 Aug 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Clare Byrne should interview Sean O'Rourke.


And while I'm on the subject, good riddance to Sarah.  Just in the job a wet week and she pulls someone up for speaking ill of the dead - Bobby Storey.  Not that she is an IRA fellow traveller,  just naive and totally over promoted.


----------



## Sophrosyne (21 Aug 2020)

Surely the organizers of this event should be the first to be publicly censured.

The invitations were issued by the society’s captain, Independent TD Noel Grealish, and its president, former Fianna Fáil senator Donie Cassidy.


----------



## dereko1969 (21 Aug 2020)

Sophrosyne said:


> Surely the organizers of this event should be the first to be publicly censured.
> 
> The invitations were issued by the society’s captain, Independent TD Noel Grealish, and its president, former Fianna Fáil senator Donie Cassidy.


As the organisers, they should be prosecuted under the law.
Also, who the hell voted for Noel Grealish to be Club Captain?


----------



## blueband (21 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> If the present Government carries on like they are at the moment , Sinn Fein WILL be in power next time , god help us


cant happen soon enough....this government is falling apart.


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

That is right, they are falling apart and the schools have not even opened yet or the leaving cert results have not been announced , another upcoming disaster but I could be wrong.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2020)

I can understand an individual doing something stupid. It happens.

But how did 82 people do something so stupid?   Surely they must have known that this was the wrong thing to do? 

I heard some guy on the radio saying that the hotel had been assured by the Irish Hotels Federation that their proposed layout was ok.  That does not make it ok.

Even if the local Gardai had given their approval, it would still have been the wrong thing to do.

I would like to hear from some politician who turned down the invitation because it was wrong. It particular, someone who played golf on the day but did not attend the dinner.

Brendan


----------



## mathepac (21 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> I don't really understand the criticism of Norma Foley.


She is the least media savvy politician I've seen since Ghengis Khan, the perfect storm of contradictions. Making positive noises, she shakes her head, before answering direct questions, she looks away from the camera and down towards the ground - a mess of contradictions and verbal tics. As for Donnelly, he's an idiot, plain and simple. His response to questions about the global pandemic, was about driving cars and playing sports being dangerous. Say good-night Dick, as they used to say on the Rowan and Martin Laugh-in.

In contrast, the Labour leader from Portroo, Co  Tipp, sounds positively statesman like, thanks to interventions (brainwashing?) by Teneo, the global influencer company owned and run by his brother and fellow Portroo man Michael Madden.  The days when he had to be surrounded by ex-CIA and ex-FBI agents to keep his feet out of his gob appear to have passed.  Portroo, local pronunciation, is my late mother's birthplace and I still have lots of family there, so I reserve the right to use inside information and be honest.


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

I agree , this is not acceptable at all for people in such positions of authority . What example is this to show to others ?


----------



## Drakon (21 Aug 2020)

mathepac said:


> She is the least media savvy politician I've seen since Ghengis Khan, the perfect storm of contradictions.



I assume she is an ex-nun.


----------



## odyssey06 (21 Aug 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I can understand an individual doing something stupid. It happens.
> But how did 82 people do something so stupid?   Surely they must have known that this was the wrong thing to do?
> I heard some guy on the radio saying that the hotel had been assured by the Irish Hotels Federation that their proposed layout was ok.  That does not make it ok.
> Even if the local Gardai had given their approval, it would still have been the wrong thing to do.
> ...



If the below is true I have sympathy for the hotel in terms of the regulations.
There seems to be a mess between what are the actual legal rules that must be followed.
And what is advice \ guidelines.
I don't exonerate the politicians because they are part of the group that issues the advice and so should be held to that standard.
And they are the ones who have blurred the lines between rules and advice.

The Irish Hotels Federation has said it sought clarification from the Department of Tourism on indoor gatherings prior to the controversial Oireachtas Golf Society event in Co Galway earlier this week. It said it advised all its members that “the status quo remains in terms of current operational procedures for hotels until further notice,” in line with the protocol agreed with the department. 








						Irish Hotels Federation says it sought Department advice on indoor gatherings prior to golf event
					

The organisation is “expecting additional guidance on urgent points of clarification early next week”.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

Perhaps the ministers are confused about the guidelines .......


----------



## odyssey06 (21 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> Perhaps the ministers are confused about the guidelines .......



That's what you get when you create a minefield of confusing guidelines, regulations, advice etc
They called their own bluff.


----------



## Sunny (21 Aug 2020)

But was it ever within the guidelines? I know people who cancelled weddings for less than 100 people who would have jumped this option three weeks ago..

They had same serving staff and I doubt they had seperate toilets....


----------



## joer (21 Aug 2020)

Perhaps it is the same ministers who should be going back to school when / if they reopen.....


----------



## WolfeTone (21 Aug 2020)

This virus appears it is going to be with us for a long time yet. There has to be smarter ways of living with it. 
NPHET and COVID Sub committee are useful and did a good job at the initial emergence of the virus. 
But the pull between the return to normal economic, social activities and the implementation of health measures is railroading through any practical or logical planning at national level. Be it nursing homes, meat plants, indoor gatherings, weddings, funerals, golf societies, pub revellers, sports teams goal celebrations etc... etc... it appears this virus will keep re-emerging or the risk of it re-emerging will be around for quite some time.


----------



## joe sod (21 Aug 2020)

WolfeTone said:


> NPHET and COVID Sub committee are useful and did a good job at the initial emergence of the virus.


yes the mistake was ministers continuing to treat NPHET with such reverance and implementing all their recommendations verbatim, some of the medics on NPHET had a zero Covid policy and that was the real reason why our measures were the most restrictive in Europe. Unfortunately the zero Covid policy is a total failure and we have the same number of new cases as many countries with much less restrictive measures. This has probably cost a few more billion in delayed openings. We should have stuck to the original roadmap, I doubt the cases we have today would be much higher anyway as people were socialising anyway outside of the restricted establishments. If the bars were open and hotels were allowed to have more people at weddings etc I doubt there would have been much of a hullabaloo about this golf outing.


----------



## odyssey06 (21 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> yes the mistake was ministers continuing to treat NPHET with such reverance and implementing all their recommendations verbatim, some of the medics on NPHET had a *zero Covid policy* and that was the real reason why our measures were the most restrictive in Europe.



What's your source for this?
The usual reason I have heard for our measures being so restrictive was the parlous state of the health service.
Zero covid would reqiure real restrictions on entry to the country.
So it seems implausible\incoherent to me anyone would be pushing zero covid measures in isolation to such restrictions.


----------



## joer (22 Aug 2020)

I like this piece that Fergal Bowers writes when he says " If this Covid crises continues and there is a General election would'nt it be a fascinating if there had to be a first - time ever postal vote (with physical voting ruled out due to social distancing ). It could result in the biggest turn out of all time. And all because the lads like milk tray or sorry golf


----------



## Sophrosyne (22 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> some of the medics on NPHET had a zero Covid policy



Which members of NPHET?

Are you confusing NPHET with a different group?


----------



## joe sod (22 Aug 2020)

Cillian de Gasgun being one high profile doctor on NPHET, here is a quote of his from early july from newstalk site when the covid numbers were very low,

"Ultimately, we want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible if not zero and obviously, at this point, we seem to be going in the opposite direction" he said

so this is the thinking and this is what was driving government policy, obviously he did not use the term "zero covid" as he would be hung up on that rung. That explains why the july 20 opening phase was delayed even though only a small rise then. Delaying the reopening has cost the economy some more billions for little reward as the covid cases continued to rise despite the delayed opening. I don't believe that the limited reopening on july 20 would have been a big factor considering the big upsurge came from state failures in the testing regime in meat factories and asylum centres predominately, and spread from here to the wider community which explains why so many cases in Kildare.


----------



## odyssey06 (22 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> Cillian de Gasgun being one high profile doctor on NPHET, here is a quote of his from early july from newstalk site when the covid numbers were very low,
> "Ultimately, we want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible if not zero and obviously, at this point, we seem to be going in the opposite direction" he said
> so this is the thinking and this is what was driving government policy, obviously he did not use the term "zero covid" as he would be hung up on that rung.



All health authorities want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible.
What do you expect him to say?
I am not seeing a zero covid at all costs policy from what you've presented so far.


----------



## joe sod (22 Aug 2020)

It wasn't just fianna fail ministers though it was the irish establishment that were at that golf tournament. Ironically if it had not been for the lockdowns and moratoriums on foreign travel the attendance would have been much much less. Many would probably have been away in foreign climes at this peak holiday season. It probably became an attractive proposition due to the lack of social outlets for the last 5 months, thats probably why so many big hitters attended, there was nothing else happening


----------



## odyssey06 (22 Aug 2020)

THE TAOISEACH AND Tánaiste have spoken to EU Commissioner Phil Hogan and asked him to consider his position in the wake of ‘golfgate’.
In a statement this evening, a spokesperson confirmed that:
“The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste did speak with Commissioner Hogan today and asked him to consider his position.
“They both believe that the event should never have been held, that the Commissioner’s apology came late and that he still needs to give a full account and explanations of his actions.”








						Golfgate: Taoiseach and Tánaiste ask Phil Hogan to ‘consider his position’ as EU Commissioner
					

They said in a statement tonight that Hogan needs “to give a full account and explanations of his actions”.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## joe sod (23 Aug 2020)

@odyssey06 i thought I was listening to Ciaran de Gasgun on Brendan O Connor but it was actually Sam McConkey but he was very clearly in the *zero Covid group *of academics. I had to edit the post because I was attributing what he was saying to Ciaran de Gasgun, the northern accent made me mix them up.


----------



## joe sod (23 Aug 2020)

I heard Jim O Callaghan of FF on RTE radio clearly taking a different approach to the governments policy on Covid, he wants relaxation and a move away from eradicating the virus which he said is "unattainable". He also said that the government appears to be following a* zero Covid *policy. I think the voices that have been quite up to now in relation to Covid are going to be much stronger in voicing their opposition to the current approach especially as the government approach has been severely weakened by the golf controversy. If ministers , judges and EU commissioners are not going to follow it how do you expect ordinary people to abide.


----------



## odyssey06 (23 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> I heard Jim O Callaghan of FF on RTE radio clearly taking a different approach to the governments policy on Covid, he wants relaxation and a move away from eradicating the virus which he said is "unattainable". He also said that the government appears to be following a* zero Covid *policy. I think the voices that have been quite up to now in relation to Covid are going to be much stronger in voicing their opposition to the current approach especially as the government approach has been severely weakened by the golf controversy. If ministers , judges and EU commissioners are not going to follow it how do you expect ordinary people to abide.



I agree with your re: expecting ordinary people to abide...
But I'm still not seeing actions commensurate with a zero Covid policy and I think I'd need more than an 'it appears' from someone on the outs in FF to prove it. It does speak to there being opposition within FF to the current course though who may be using that as a rod to beat the government with.


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I would like to hear from some politician who turned down the invitation because it was wrong. It (sic) particular, someone who played golf on the day but did not attend the dinner.



Enda Kenny.


----------



## joe sod (24 Aug 2020)

Just shows you enda Kenny a very shrewd man, straight away he saw the problem with such a dinner which even a former attorney general and judge did not see. I'm afraid our "learned friends" are not that learned or smart and it is ridiculous that they are put up on such pedestals.


----------



## odyssey06 (24 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> Just shows you enda Kenny a very shrewd man, straight away he saw the problem with such a dinner which even a former attorney general and judge did not see. I'm afraid our "learned friends" are not that learned or smart and it is ridiculous that they are put up on such pedestals.



It showed cop on alright, but he might have more obvious health motives than anything political... he is near 70.


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

69 but fit as a fiddle. 

His predecessor Brian Cowen though ten years younger would be far more at risk due to his obesity (not withstanding his vegetative state and hospital confinement).

Take Mary Loves McDonalds, she’s in her early 50ies, is mostly healthy but her presumably it was her obesity led to her having a horrendous dose of the Covid.


----------



## Sunny (24 Aug 2020)

Ah some early morning fat shaming......Where would you be without it!


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

I assume you’re joking, since you say “fat shaming” but not “age shaming”.


----------



## Peanuts20 (24 Aug 2020)

I'm going to give Norma Foley the benefit of the doubt at this stage, she is an ex secondary teacher and is married to a teacher so I'd hope she at least understands how education works at the coalface. I'd much prefer to see if she is a competent Minister then a coached PR person, we've had enough of those over the years. 
When the Leaving results come out, there will be a lot of noise from some students who won't get what they wanted and the Matt Coopers of this world will make a meal of it ignoring the fact that every year some students don't get the results they expected and appeal it. It will be scale of the appeals against previous years which will be interesting, not that some occurred. What will be really interesting is when the teachers marks come out. I'd say a lot of teachers are bricking themselves because some kids and some parents really won't be happy with them

As for Phil H, he will try and brazen it out but at least he seemingly won a George Foreman grill in the raffle. !!


----------



## cremeegg (24 Aug 2020)

It would be a ridiculous own goal if the Irish government were to try to force Phil Hogan's resignation over this. Irish commissioners do not always have one of the major portfolios, were Hogan to resign it is unlikely that his sucessor as Irish commissioner would command any significant job in the commission.


----------



## Sunny (24 Aug 2020)

cremeegg said:


> It would be a ridiculous own goal if the Irish government were to try to force Phil Hogan's resignation over this. Irish commissioners do not always have one of the major portfolios, were Hogan to resign it is unlikely that his sucessor as Irish commissioner would command any significant job in the commission.



I don't really get this argument. Most people couldn't even tell you what a commissioner does. We have heard over the past few days that once a commissioner is appointed, they no longer represent national interests, are not accountable to national governments, are not electable etc etc. Phil Hogan was inclined to leave the commissioner post himself when he thought he had a chance to get the WTO job which he never had a chance of getting so he didn't care much about Ireland or Irish interests then. If our whole approach to Brexit and EU/UK trade talks is to rely on Phil Hogan having Irelands back, we are well and truely doomed.

It's the John Delaney argument. We are lucky to have him so we should just let him away with anything....I never thought we would consider ourselves lucky to have Phil Hogan involved in anything. He wasn't a loss to Irish politics and he won't be a loss now.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (24 Aug 2020)

IMHO Phil Hogan is a dangerous person for Ireland to have any significant influence in the Brexit negotiations.  Phil was vociferously anti Brexit and very much played the Green vs Orange card.  That may or may not have been a reasonable tactic whilst there was a chance that Brexit wouldn't happen.
Brexit has happened.  Ireland's interests are now completely turned around - we want the Brits to get the best deal possible. Is Phil capable of making that volte face?  Don't think so.


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Irish commissioners do not always have one of the major portfolios, were Hogan to resign it is unlikely that his sucessor as Irish commissioner would command any significant job in the commission.



This is the most senior portfolio any Irish commissioner has ever held. If he leaves the commission there will be a reshuffle of sorts and the newbie Irish commissioner will get lowest rung portfolio. The Commission for European Integration, or something like that.


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> Most people couldn't even tell you what a commissioner does.



Their ignorance is no excuse. 



Sunny said:


> ...they no longer represent national interests, are not accountable to national governments,



All true. However, the Trade Portfolio is crucial in the Brexit talks. And Ireland will be most affected by Brexit than any other European state. I’m pretty sure that an Estonian politician, for example, wouldn’t be as familiar as the an Irish politician, with the nuances of trade with the UK. Or the land border. The better the deal the Trade Commissioner negotiates for the EU and all it’s members, the better it will be for Ireland.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (24 Aug 2020)

Drakon said:


> The better the deal the Trade Commissioner negotiates for the EU and all it’s members, the better it will be for Ireland.


Barnier made it clear from the word go that the UK cannot be better off outside the EU than in it.  
The argument is that that would be in the best interests of the EU as a collective so as to prevent further defections. For example that might mean tariffs or frictions on agricultural trade.  
A Latvian might feel that that is a reasonable price to pay to preserve the integrity of the union.  For Ireland it would be cutting off its nose to spite its face.  
I have this suspicion that Phil, given his previous arrogant anti Brexit/anti British  stance would be prepared to cut Ireland's nose off to teach those Brits a lesson.  After all, his pension is safe, especially as no one dares sack him.


----------



## joe sod (24 Aug 2020)

If Hogan is not forced to resign, it probably means everyone else at the dinner is safe. It also puts a big hole in the government strategy with regard to covid. Probably when they get the schools open then a radical change in their approach to covid, The current approach is unsustainable and getting increasingly unpopular


----------



## Sunny (24 Aug 2020)

Drakon said:


> Their ignorance is no excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> All true. However, the Trade Portfolio is crucial in the Brexit talks. And Ireland will be most affected by Brexit than any other European state. I’m pretty sure that an Estonian politician, for example, wouldn’t be as familiar as the an Irish politician, with the nuances of trade with the UK. Or the land border. The better the deal the Trade Commissioner negotiates for the EU and all it’s members, the better it will be for Ireland.



Oh please. Brexit or trade talks are not decided by one Commissioner. Do you think the German Government are sitting there allowing an Irish commissioner dictate US/EU never mind future EU/UK trade talks to the benefit of Ireland's interests? Do you think Phil Hogan was protecting Irish farmers when he was working on the Mercosur trade deal? Ireland are in an impossible position with Brexit. Protecting the single market and protecting our relationship with our largest trading partner. The issues go way over Phil Hogan or any trade commissioners head.....


----------



## Drakon (24 Aug 2020)

That’s like saying there’s no point in having a health minister as decisions are made by consensus at the cabinet table.


----------



## odyssey06 (24 Aug 2020)

Another casualty...
RTE has said it will not be proceeding with future plans for projects with broadcaster Seán O’Rourke following his involvement in the ‘golf gate’ controversy.  








						Sean O'Rourke's planned return to RTÉ cancelled by 'mutual decision'
					

O’Rourke had been expected to return to RTÉ to present a current affairs programme.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## cremeegg (24 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> Phil Hogan was inclined to leave the commissioner post himself when he thought he had a chance to get the WTO job.



Most of your other points have been well answered, but as regards the WTO job it would be an even bigger success for Irish diplomacy than securing the trade Commissionership.


----------



## joe sod (25 Aug 2020)

Looks like Phil Hogan will not be removed by Europe, it's an Irish storm in a tea cup in their view. What about the judge, I bet they will also not remove him, as usual they will take ages to make a decision and use legal mumbo jumbo to justify not removing him.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (25 Aug 2020)

Everyone knows what "consider your position" is a euphemism for.  But Phil cynically but totally predictably availed of the literal wriggle room available.
Either Leo or Michael or both should issue a statement making it clear that they meant that he should resign.
At a very minimum when the Dail resumes they should each be asked to put on record that they meant that he should resign.


----------



## WolfeTone (25 Aug 2020)

Personally I don't think he (Hogan) should resign. I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we set the bar that every public office holder who contravenes the guidelines should resign.
Callerey took the hit. He is one of the more honourable representatives in Dáil Éireann and I would like to think that he will be back to the forefront of Irish politics before long.
Obviously the optics of golfgate are appalling, but the primary objective is to return the economy back to good state while trying to combat this virus.
The initial lockdown was appropriate as the danger to the health services being overwhelmed was significant.
However, notwithstanding the recent surge in numbers of Covid it needs to measured against hospital admissions, and from my understanding admissions are not rising to any significant extent (correct me if I'm wrong). That suggests, social distancing, hand washing/sanitizing etc is having a real effect.
So more practical measures should be in place, rather than blunt instruments of 'no more than 6' (why not 5 or 7?). If you are high risk - avoid large public gatherings where possible, if you are caring for or visiting elderly - avoid public gatherings.
If outbreaks occur, the people associated with the premises, business, school, etc should isolate with necessary financial supports and assist with contact tracing.

Obviously with winter approaching we all need to exercise care, but I think we can see that with hospital admissions very low care is being exercised.


----------



## Sophrosyne (25 Aug 2020)

If only we still had Scrap Saturday.

For those of you who remember it, does not “P” spring to mind?


----------



## Sunny (25 Aug 2020)

WolfeTone said:


> Personally I don't think he (Hogan) should resign. I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we set the bar that every public office holder who contravenes the guidelines should resign.
> Callerey took the hit. He is one of the more honourable representatives in Dáil Éireann and I would like to think that he will be back to the forefront of Irish politics before long.
> Obviously the optics of golfgate are appalling, but the primary objective is to return the economy back to good state while trying to combat this virus.
> The initial lockdown was appropriate as the danger to the health services being overwhelmed was significant.
> ...



I don't think it is even the attendance at the dinner at this stage. It is the arrogance of his response where an appropriate acknowledgement and apology (and it wasn't even sincere) had to be dragged out of him and then the drip feed of information with regard to his travel within Ireland. I admire Callerey for not moaning and trying to justify his attendance and I don't think it should lead to the end of his political career. Hogan and Woulfe are different. They have shown a contempt and an arrogance that has no place in public life. 

Hard to know what is happening with hospital admissions. It went from 21-28 from 8am to 8pm on the 23rd and I thought that is a bad sign but then yesterday it went from 28-22 from 8am to 8pm. To be honest, I don't know what is happening but we don't seem to seeing an increase in hospital admissions at the sort of level you would expect with case numbers rising. Same seems to be seen in other Countries too. Even the US has managed. I presume it is because younger people are getting it and we are doing a better job protecting the most at risk but I suppose we have the unknowns of the long term impacts of the virus on young people and also how long before it takes hold in health and residential settings.


----------



## joe sod (25 Aug 2020)

WolfeTone said:


> The initial lockdown was appropriate as the danger to the health services being overwhelmed was significant.


exactly but thats the problem now because the lockdown was successful and actually widely popular, the government think that they can continue with this strategy. Now they seem to want to keep the population in a state of perpetual fear and moral outrage at any digressions from their chosen path. They have invested too much political capital in this strategy that is why they are putting pressure on the european commission to censor Hogan even though it damages Ireland internationally


----------



## Purple (25 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> that is why they are putting pressure on the european commission to censor Hogan


Are they?


----------



## Purple (25 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> It is the arrogance of his response where an appropriate acknowledgement and apology (and it wasn't even sincere) had to be dragged out of him


That should come as a surprise to noone. Of the many things that you could accuse Big Phil of modesty isn't one of them.


----------



## Firefly (25 Aug 2020)

Love this one!









						Letter to the Editor: Reckless and dangerous behaviour by Government members
					

Letter to the Editor: Reckless and dangerous behaviour by Government members




					www.irishexaminer.com


----------



## Peanuts20 (25 Aug 2020)

so seemingly he was golfing in Limerick as well. Raises 2 questions

Does he actually do any work or is he "golfing for Europe"
Did he pay for all of this travel, overnight stays etc himself?


----------



## Sunny (25 Aug 2020)

Raises another question.

Says he received the negative test while in hospital for what I assume was an elective procedure.... Means he travelled and entered a hospital setting without quarantine and without a negative test....

I have holidays booked for October which I was going to cancel. I think Phil has convinced me otherwise. I will go on holidays, get a covid test on first day back and then no quarantine for me baby!! He had days to get his story straight and still couldn't get that right....Even more holes in it. And these people are running trade talks???


----------



## Sophrosyne (25 Aug 2020)

Now he has really put his foot in it.

In the course of an interview with the excellent Tony Connolly on RTE this evening, he said that he did not accept the 14-day self-quarantine requirement for those entering Ireland from high risk countries.

He has put Ursula von der Leyen in the invidious position of clarifying how an EU commissioner could refuse to accept or comply with an EU member’s health advice.


----------



## odyssey06 (25 Aug 2020)

Wasn't the green list agreed as a concept at EU level?
This is more than just a little local bye-law.
He was stopped driving while using a mobile and given a warning.
I wouldn't expect much from him batting for Europe & Ireland in trade talks. His priorities seem to be golf and living the high life right now.


----------



## WolfeTone (25 Aug 2020)

After that RTÉ interview, I retract my previous comment.


----------



## joer (25 Aug 2020)

Who won the outing anyway . Do they have to forfeit the prize ?


----------



## joe sod (25 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Wasn't the green list agreed as a concept at EU level?


What do you mean? sure Ireland has a different green list to most of Europe, by and large the rest of europe is only imposing quarantines on countries outside of Europe with exceptions for UK and Spain when they had the big upsurges. The irish quarantine is just a big joke especially as we have no "red list"


----------



## Sophrosyne (25 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> by and large the rest of europe is only imposing quarantines on countries outside of Europe with exceptions for UK and Spain when they had the big upsurges.



Up-to-date source?


----------



## odyssey06 (25 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> What do you mean? sure Ireland has a different green list to most of Europe, by and large the rest of europe is only imposing quarantines on countries outside of Europe with exceptions for UK and Spain when they had the big upsurges. The irish quarantine is just a big joke especially as we have no "red list"



I could be wrong but I though the basis of green list was agreed at EU level.
Every country has a different list as it depends on relative recent case count.








						'Green list' of countries that Irish people can travel to due by 9 July
					

Varadkar gave the green light for Phase Three of the lifting of coronavirus restrictions to go ahead from Monday.




					www.thejournal.ie
				




This article is two weeks old but lists the Schengen restrictions.
We have been added to Norways red list.








						EU Countries Increase COVID-19 Travel Measures - SchengenVisaInfo.com
					

Although most EU countries began loosening coronavirus travel and entry restrictions in June-July, come August and several are tightening them back up again, even among themselves. As lockdown measures began easing and travel gradually resumed, many countries saw an increase in COVID-19...



					www.schengenvisainfo.com


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (25 Aug 2020)

WolfeTone said:


> After that RTÉ interview, I retract my previous comment.


I don’t get that.  I think the negative test puts him in the clear even if technically he was in breach.  He wasn’t harming anyone.


----------



## joe sod (25 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> We have been added to Norways red list.


I think its Iceland not Ireland from reading it, I take your point that some countries are becoming more restrictive now but by and large still open to pan european travel , Greece, Italy and Norway are just more restrictive but nobody is as restrictive as us and now we are not even benefitting from it because our infections are rising anyways.


----------



## WolfeTone (25 Aug 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> . I think the negative test puts him in the clear even if technically he was in breach. He wasn’t harming anyone.



The negative test and "your free to go about your business" doesn't apply if you have been abroad. You still have to isolate for the 14 days. 
He could have said that this is where he made the honest mistake, taking advice from his doctor rather than the HSE guidelines. Instead he responded "I don't accept that", referring to HSE guidelines.


----------



## Sunny (25 Aug 2020)

WolfeTone said:


> The negative test and "your free to go about your business" doesn't apply if you have been abroad. You still have to isolate for the 14 days.
> He could have said that this is where he made the honest mistake, taking advice from his doctor rather than the HSE guidelines. Instead he responded "I don't accept that", referring to HSE guidelines.



Yeah if he had just admitted he made a mistake reading the regulations, I think he could have survived if he managed to sound even 1% genuine. Instead we get the 'I dont accept that'....reminded me of p flynn on the late late complaining about the cost of running multiple houses....


----------



## joer (25 Aug 2020)

If he doesn't resign who is going to sack him ? I don't see him resigning .


----------



## Sophrosyne (26 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> What do you mean? sure Ireland has a different green list to most of Europe, by and large the rest of europe is only imposing quarantines on countries outside of Europe with exceptions for UK and Spain when they had the big upsurges. The irish quarantine is just a big joke especially as we have no "red list"



The Green List was an EU concept, but each country draws up its own list.

The restrictiveness of one country’s list over another is irrelevant.

The fact that it was Ireland he visited, in a way, is also irrelevant.

It would be contemptuous for an EU commissioner to travel to *any* EU member state or any other country and say in an interview on that country’s state television that he/she does not accept its Covid 19 quarantine requirements.


----------



## odyssey06 (26 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> If he doesn't resign who is going to sack him ? I don't see him resigning .



The only person who can sack him is Ursula von der Leyen as president of the EU Commission by asking for his resignation.
Effectively the same way a Taoiseach sacks a cabinet member.


----------



## Peanuts20 (26 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> If he doesn't resign who is going to sack him ? I don't see him resigning .



Article 247

(ex Article 216 TEC)

If any Member of the Commission no longer fulfils the conditions required for the performance of his duties or if he has been guilty of serious misconduct, the Court of Justice may, on application by the Council acting by a simple majority or the Commission, compulsorily retire him.

or the Head of the Commision can sack him


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (26 Aug 2020)

I am gong to stick my neck out - Ursula will not stand by Hogan.  Whether that means an outright sacking, not so sure, but presumably she has learnt not to ask him to “consider his position”.


----------



## joe sod (26 Aug 2020)

_"When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him, Pilate saith onto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law and by our law he ought to die"_

explains a lot of what is happening now , the mob and the mob leaders want him crucified but Pilate (ursula) can see no fault but to satisfy the baying mob she will adhere and crucify him. It didn't end well for the Jews as the Romans not too long afterwards ransacked Jerusalem


----------



## Purple (26 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> _"When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him, Pilate saith onto them, Take he him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law and by our law he ought to die"_
> 
> explains a lot of what his happening now , the mob and the mob leaders want him crucified but Pilate (ursula) can see no fault but to satisfy the baying mob she will adhere and crucify him. It didn't end well for the Jews as the Romans not too long afterwards ransacked Jerusalem


If you are going to quote fiction can you at least quote Shakespeare?


----------



## Sunny (26 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> _"When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him, Pilate saith onto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law and by our law he ought to die"_
> 
> explains a lot of what is happening now , the mob and the mob leaders want him crucified but Pilate (ursula) can see no fault but to satisfy the baying mob she will adhere and crucify him. It didn't end well for the Jews as the Romans not too long afterwards ransacked Jerusalem



So Phil Hogan is like the Son of God??? (Apparently I can't use the 'J' word) Well I knew he was arrogant but still.......


----------



## Purple (26 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> So Phil Hogan is like the Son of God??? (Apparently I can't use the 'J' word) Well I knew he was arrogant but still.......


What, in that he thinks he's something special but all evidence suggests otherwise?


----------



## odyssey06 (26 Aug 2020)

Resigning is too good for him.
I vote we proceed straight to the crucifixion option.
I didn't realise that was available, must be some quick of the modern Holy Roman Empire.
Hanging or the guillotine obviously wouldn't work with the brass neck on him.


----------



## Purple (26 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> Resigning is too good for him.
> I vote we proceed straight to the crucifixion option.
> I didn't realise that was available, must be some quick of the modern Holy Roman Empire.
> Hanging or the guillotine obviously wouldn't work with the brass neck on him.


Marvellous people the romans. Nail some sense into him, that's what I say.


----------



## Sophrosyne (26 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> _"When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him, Pilate saith onto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law and by our law he ought to die"_
> 
> explains a lot of what is happening now , the mob and the mob leaders want him crucified but Pilate (ursula) can see no fault but to satisfy the baying mob she will adhere and crucify him. It didn't end well for the Jews as the Romans not too long afterwards ransacked Jerusalem



If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, *pound the table*.


----------



## mathepac (26 Aug 2020)

Purple said:


> Marvellous people the romans.


What did the Romans ever do for us, eh, eh?


----------



## odyssey06 (26 Aug 2020)

If Big Phil goes, does Ireland get to nominate the replacement?

I nominate Brian Hayes, former FG MEP and Minister of State.

What?


----------



## Firefly (26 Aug 2020)

odyssey06 said:


> If Big Phil goes, does Ireland get to nominate the replacement?


Not sure, but I doubt it.


----------



## Purple (26 Aug 2020)

We nominate a replacement commissioner but we don't have an input in what portfolio they get.


----------



## odyssey06 (26 Aug 2020)

Gone baby gone...

PHIL HOGAN IS to resign from his role as EU Commissioner for Trade tonight in the wake of the Golfgate scandal and questions about his movements while in Ireland









						Phil Hogan resigns from his role as EU Trade Commissioner
					

“Of course I broke no law, I broke no regulations, but I could have adhered better to the guidelines,” he told RTÉ this evening.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## joer (26 Aug 2020)

Perhaps we should run a golf outing to raise funds seeing as he will be financially impacted by this announcement


----------



## odyssey06 (26 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> Perhaps we should run a golf outing to raise funds seeing as he will be financially impacted by this announcement



He'll probably have terrible trouble getting refunds for all the flights he had booked too...


----------



## joer (26 Aug 2020)

Ok then two outings so .....At least he won the longest drive in the last one , which he will never forget...


----------



## mathepac (26 Aug 2020)

Purple said:


> We nominate a replacement commissioner but we don't have an input in what portfolio they get.


Commissioner for Dirty Nappies, recycling of


----------



## Sunny (26 Aug 2020)

Don't know about anyone else but I felt sorry for him. They were just public health guidelines. They were for the public. He was an EU Commissioner, Saviour of Brexit, skilled negotiator feared by the Americans and the Chineese. He was a one man machine who would have saved Ireland. Hopefully he will come home and enter public service again.....we are still having problems with water..........


----------



## joe sod (26 Aug 2020)

What commissioner will we get next maybe "Commissioner for Covid Compliance", our commissioner will ensure that all the other commissioners are observing social distancing ,wearing masks and staying in quarantine if they have been to very dangerous countries like Portugal.


----------



## mathepac (27 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> dangerous countries like Portugal.


or Belgium.


----------



## mathepac (27 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> Don't know about anyone else but I felt sorry for him.


Not one bit sorry for him. A puffed up, self-important bully, a liar and deceiver with stories that kept changing. To be a successful liar, apparently one of the requirements is to have a good memory for a variety of stories;  telling the truth you only need one story.  The trip to Roscommon remains unexplained, maybe there was even a trip to Tipp. Check his phones and his car's GPS to see the full extent of Philo's Odessey.  


Sunny said:


> They were just public health guidelines. They were for the public. He was an EU Commissioner, Saviour of Brexit, skilled negotiator feared by the Americans and the Chineese.


Just guidelines or guidelines just for the public? Your reasoning escapes me here. Once Philo stepped off the aircraft on July 31st, he was just another Joe Soap, an Irish citizen subject to all the rules and regulations and guidelines for the control of the pandemic.  He had no diplomatic immunity, no different set of rules or guidelines applied to him, despite what he and you appear to think. Comparisons with Pee Flynn and his arrogant off-spring are well made or even the Healy-Raes and their thuggish sons in a current dynasty, who think the rules of normal behaviour don't apply to them. "This is my town, this is my chip van" to paraprashe what they said to one victim of their thuggishness as reported at their trial for assault.   Liars , bullies and thugs all.  https://www.thejournal.ie/michael-healy-rae-sons-suspended-sentences-assault-4921031-Dec2019/


Sunny said:


> Hopefully he will come home and enter public service again.....we are still having problems with water..........


If I never clap eyes on him again, it'll be too soon.


----------



## Drakon (27 Aug 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> And while I'm on the subject, good riddance to Sarah.  Just in the job a wet week and she pulls someone up for speaking ill of the dead - Bobby Storey.  Not that she is an IRA fellow traveller,  just naive and totally over promoted.



I’m a big fan of Sarah McInerney and I have to say I’m overjoyed that she’ll be the lead broadcaster for RTÉ Radio One‘a Drive Time show. 

That time slot, for the evening commuters (do they even exist anymore) has been devoid of a good presenter for years. 
RTÉ has had Mary Wilson, a serious yawn-monger. 
Today FM have Matt Cooper, with his wishy-washy approach and faux outrage. I can’t believe he wasn’t sacked after relocating with a load of staff to New York to celebrate the Hillary Clinton election wi.... oops.
Newstalk hasn’t had a good presenter since George Hook began losing his marbles around 2010. Admittedly, Sarah has a short stint there but couldn’t shine because of her sap of a co-host.


----------



## Drakon (27 Aug 2020)

As for Big Phil, he had to go. I just don’t enjoy the glee of anti-water simpletons.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (27 Aug 2020)

Sunny said:


> Don't know about anyone else but I felt sorry for him. They were just public health guidelines. They were for the public. He was an EU Commissioner, Saviour of Brexit, skilled negotiator feared by the Americans and the Chineese. He was a one man machine who would have saved Ireland. Hopefully he will come home and enter public service again.....we are still having problems with water..........


And apparently he’s quite a good golfer. Can‘t see why folk like @mathepac cannot appreciate the sheer breadth of this man.


----------



## Purple (27 Aug 2020)

Drakon said:


> I’m a big fan of Sarah McInerney and I have to say I’m overjoyed that she’ll be the lead broadcaster for RTÉ Radio One‘a Drive Time show.
> 
> That time slot, for the evening commuters (do they even exist anymore) has been devoid of a good presenter for years.
> RTÉ has had Mary Wilson, a serious yawn-monger.
> ...


I want to like her but I don't.


----------



## Purple (27 Aug 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> And apparently he’s quite a good golfer. Can‘t see why folk like @mathepac cannot appreciate the sheer breadth of this man.


I agree. Us little people sometimes just don't recognise our betters.


----------



## Sunny (27 Aug 2020)

mathepac said:


> Not one bit sorry for him. A puffed up, self-important bully, a liar and deceiver with stories that kept changing. To be a successful liar, apparently one of the requirements is to have a good memory for a variety of stories;  telling the truth you only need one story.  The trip to Roscommon remains unexplained, maybe there was even a trip to Tipp. Check his phones and his car's GPS to see the full extent of Philo's Odessey.
> Just guidelines or guidelines just for the public? Your reasoning escapes me here. Once Philo stepped off the aircraft on July 31st, he was just another Joe Soap, an Irish citizen subject to all the rules and regulations and guidelines for the control of the pandemic.  He had no diplomatic immunity, no different set of rules or guidelines applied to him, despite what he and you appear to think. Comparisons with Pee Flynn and his arrogant off-spring are well made or even the Healy-Raes and their thuggish sons in a current dynasty, who think the rules of normal behaviour don't apply to them. "This is my town, this is my chip van" to paraprashe what they said to one victim of their thuggishness as reported at their trial for assault.   Liars , bullies and thugs all.  https://www.thejournal.ie/michael-healy-rae-sons-suspended-sentences-assault-4921031-Dec2019/
> If I never clap eyes on him again, it'll be too soon.



Maybe don't post stuff at 2am....Sarcasm obviously doesn't work at that hour


----------



## Deiseblue (27 Aug 2020)

It was pretty hard to miss the nuclear  level of sarcasm In your post Sunny but someone managed it !!


----------



## joe sod (27 Aug 2020)

Now we find out what the Romans will do, talk that they looking for gender balance now, so maybe we nominate a female candidate as a +1 to the main candidate, they choose the female candidate but we also lose the trade portfolio. The ball is in Rome's court now


----------



## joer (27 Aug 2020)

I am delighted for Sarah and glad to see her get a good radio slot. She fully deserves it, in my opinion.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (27 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> Now we find out what the Romans will do, talk that they looking for gender balance now, so maybe we nominate a female candidate as a +1 to the main candidate, they choose the female candidate but we also lose the trade portfolio. The ball is in Rome's court now


Good idea!  Exile Mary Lou to Brussels.


----------



## Deiseblue (27 Aug 2020)

Drakon said:


> As for Big Phil, he had to go. I just don’t enjoy the glee of anti-water simpletons.


Still you have to laugh at the letter writer in the Irish Times today who suggested that big Phil’s support had been “ reduced to a trickle “ !


----------



## Sophrosyne (27 Aug 2020)

The President of the European Commission has signalled her disapproval of outgoing commissioner Phil Hogan's actions during his visit to Ireland.

Ursula von der Leyen said she expected that as Europe fought to reduce the spread of the coronavirus, and as Europeans made sacrifices, and accepted painful restrictions, she expected Commissioners "to be particularly vigilant about compliance with applicable national or regional rules or recommendations."


----------



## joer (27 Aug 2020)

She made a right decision .


----------



## Betsy Og (27 Aug 2020)

Late to this party but I don't know will Ireland's best interests be served by having him gone - it was a fair cop guv' and all that - and if it had stopped at Clifden maybe some early remorse would have sufficed.

I'm awaiting Mary Lou's resignation any minute, I was nearly in tears yesterday as she explained the gravity of the offence of breaking Covid restrictions.....


----------



## odyssey06 (27 Aug 2020)

Headline on the Journal:
"Von der Leyen says government must propose a woman and a man as candidates to replace Phil Hogan."

Big Phil did the work of two people! Trojan 

_(yes I know she will only pick one)_


----------



## Sophrosyne (27 Aug 2020)

Betsy Og said:


> if it had stopped at Clifden maybe some early remorse would have sufficed.



I agree, but the RTÉ interview really incensed people.

Besides his fudge of the Covid requirements, about 10:30 into the interview with Tony Connolly, when questioned about being stopped for using his mobile phone, he claimed that if the Gardaí knew he was a European Commissioner or a politician they wouldn’t have stopped him.


----------



## Purple (28 Aug 2020)

Sophrosyne said:


> I agree, but the RTÉ interview really incensed people.
> 
> Besides his fudge of the Covid requirements, about 10:30 into the interview with Tony Connolly, when questioned about being stopped for using his mobile phone, he claimed that if the Gardaí knew he was a European Commissioner or a politician they wouldn’t have stopped him.


It's a shame he couldn't have done the interview on the Late Late Show, just for the sake of historical context.
At least he won't have the expense of keeping three homes anymore.


----------



## joe sod (28 Aug 2020)

The late late show should be put out of its misery, non stop sob stories and misery porn. Its supposed to be light entertainment, it used to be with Gay Byrne at the helm when celebrities actually wanted to appear with him.


----------



## Purple (28 Aug 2020)

joe sod said:


> The late late show should be put out of its misery, non stop sob stories and misery porn. Its supposed to be light entertainment, it used to be with Gay Byrne at the helm when celebrities actually wanted to appear with him.


Celebrities such as P. Flynn, the father of a Class Act.


----------



## joer (28 Aug 2020)

Only Gay Byrne would have been good enough to interview Phil, just as he did with P Flynn. 
Ryan would be a lightweight interviewer.


----------



## Purple (28 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> Only Gay Byrne would have been good enough to interview Phil, just as he did with P Flynn.
> Ryan would be a lightweight interviewer.


I agree, it would have provided a nice historical symmetry though.


----------



## joe sod (28 Aug 2020)

But gay Byrne was light entertainment first, if he had politicians on he approached it from that view point, he let them talk and went down interesting avenues if that's where the conversation was going, that's how pauric Flynn hung himself. Tubridy tries to be hard hitting, it's as if he is not his own man and a creature of his background team, you always get the impression that someone else is pulling the strings


----------



## joer (28 Aug 2020)

Ryan just goes by his script regardless of where the story might go..


----------



## joer (28 Aug 2020)

My last word on Golfgate . If any of the 81 get Covid symptoms could we trust them to get tested ?. I hope that they dont, by the way, for everyone,s sake.


----------



## odyssey06 (28 Aug 2020)

joer said:


> My last word on Golfgate . If any of the 81 get Covid symptoms could we trust them to get tested ?. I hope that they dont, by the way, for everyone,s sake.



I didn't hear any of them declaring they were self isolating for 2 weeks ... I would have cut them a lot of slack for that.


----------



## joe sod (31 Aug 2020)

Eoin Drea: Hogan affair displays Irish exceptionalism at its worst
					

Forced resignation was a destructive act against our economic interest




					www.irishtimes.com
				




great article in the irish times about how we shot ourselves in the foot by jettisoning Phil Hogan and the important trade commission role

"_In Ireland, the Government’s unease at a health system with very limited capacity has made Irish people afraid of travel, afraid of tourists, seemingly afraid of themselves. Instead of utilising best-practice examples from around Europe, Ireland has largely ignored EU guidelines for safely restarting international travel.
This is Irish exceptionalism of the worse kind. And by allowing the parochialism of Ireland’s domestic politics to dominate its engagement in European affairs, Dublin has blundered badly. It may take us a generation in Brussels to repair this damage."_


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (1 Sep 2020)

Ursula asking for a male and a female candidate. How silly is that?
If she chooses F it is because she is F.
If she choses M then it would signal that F must have been really bad.
We should put up one candidate and avoid this nonsense.


----------



## WolfeTone (1 Sep 2020)

I cannot see, from that article, how we shot ourselves in the foot. It's just a pet-piece of adulation. It diminishes the performances of Mccreevy and Geoghegan Quinn, but what else would you expect from FG. Ask any FF at the time and they would be as gushing in praise for Mccreevy /Quinn as this piece is for Hogan. 
The reality is Commission appointees are assigned on a basis EU parliamentary committee evaluation. Portfolios are assigned thereafter. 
It is naive to think that an Irish EU Commissioner have "Irelands interest at heart", when our own parliament shows that what's considered in "Irelands interest" can vary from party to party. 
For instance, is it in Irelands interest to cede sovereignty with regard to our corporate tax regime and agree to align it with members States? According to this article Hogan was agreeable to a softening of Irelands stance (I wonder if this view is what clinched the portfolio in the first place?). If you were to listen to our representatives here, our corporate tax policy is not for debate. 
So its to hard to see how an EU Commissioner, soft on tax sovereignty, is in Irelands interest at all.


----------



## odyssey06 (1 Sep 2020)

Plus Hogan was hardly seen as indispensable for Brexit, if the government were pushing him for the WTO job.


----------



## odyssey06 (2 Sep 2020)

We have a new Minister for Agriculture... I give him 6 months before some dalliance on whatsapp with someone other than his partner takes him out 

Fianna Fáil's Charlie McConalogue has been appointed as the new Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. 








						McConalogue succeeds Calleary in agriculture post
					

Fianna Fáil's Charlie McConalogue has been appointed as the new Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine.




					www.rte.ie


----------



## odyssey06 (2 Sep 2020)

I just had a vision of this story coming full circle and by the end this government's lifetime Phil Hogan will be minister for agriculture.


----------



## joer (2 Sep 2020)

I hope it was only a vision.....


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (4 Sep 2020)

Mairead McGuinness a shoe in for EU post


----------



## joe sod (5 Sep 2020)

michael martin has finally caved in on opening the pubs soon. looks like there was going to be an open revolt in the government. Mark Mcsharry came out openly and called the latest regulations "stasi" like, they were facing fierce criticism even from labour TDs like Michael mcnamara and Alan Kelly, not the normal allies of publicans. By not opening all the pubs by August 10 the government turned the "wet pubs" (what an awful phrase) into a sort of fetish that only Ireland unique in Europe could not be trusted with.


----------



## joe sod (8 Sep 2020)

Could be a lot of trouble for the guards with regard to the Barry Cowan sacking and the leaking of confidential information by gardai to politicians and subsequently the media. They reckon a senior td knowing this information chose the most opportune time to leak this and cause maximum damage to Barry Cowan. There is going to be a lot more to this


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (8 Sep 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Mairead McGuinness a shoe in for EU post


You think McDowell would have been given the courtesy of at least a few days contemplation by Ursula.


----------



## Sophrosyne (8 Sep 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> ou think McDowell would have been given the courtesy of at least a few days contemplation by Ursula



I don’t think she had the luxury of time.

Assuming the gets through the tough hearing process, the financial services portfolio to be granted to Mairead McGuinness is quite an important one.

This is despite reports from some quarters that the EU would punish Ireland over the shenanigans with Phil Hogan.


----------



## Purple (8 Sep 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> You think McDowell would have been given the courtesy of at least a few days contemplation by Ursula.


I'm sure it was all choreographed in the background beforehand.


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (8 Sep 2020)

Sophrosyne said:


> I don’t think she had the luxury of time.


She should have asked for just one candidate so, female of course.


----------



## Purple (8 Sep 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> She should have asked for just one candidate so, female of course.


The optics had to be right. 
Will there be a few State Board jobs for McDowell?


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (8 Sep 2020)

Purple said:


> The optics had to be right.


The optics of this are just awful “give me a female shoe in and a male no hoper”


----------



## Purple (9 Sep 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> The optics of this are just awful “give me a female shoe in and a male no hoper”


Yep, I was talking about the optics from this side.
I hope she doesn't play golf!


----------



## Duke of Marmalade (9 Sep 2020)

There you go.  Big Phil scarcely gone a wet week and the Brits are at it again messing with Brexit.


----------

