# Unable to keep up BTL mortgage repayments: Complying with "Fitness & Probity" @ work



## corktim (16 Mar 2013)

Hi All,

As a result of the downturn in the economy it looks like ill have to surrender a BTL property to the bank as i can no longer afford the repayments. Im struggling with interest only and dont see any way of repaying the debt in the long term.

Im required to comply with fitness and probity for my job and im wondering if i could loose my job if the bank register a judgement against me as i have no way of paying the shortfall of about 150k.

i have another 2 mortgages which i am trying to keep above water,also heavily in negative equity of about 200k.

my wife works but she is not on any of the loans and has her own mortgage. Im also worried that they could come after her too. Taking her income into account we could service some of the debt but that would mean living on the breadline for the next 25yrs.

Really worried here so any advice is appreciated.


----------



## ajapale (16 Mar 2013)

Hi CorkTim,

Ive expanded your title somewhat so as to get a better response.

aj
mod


----------



## Brendan Burgess (16 Mar 2013)

HI Tim

They can't come after  her if she is not mentioned on the mortgages. 

However, they can offer you a deal - "if your wife pays your bills, we won't register a judgment". It's up to you and your wife whether or not to accept or reject that. 

I presume you work in financial services and it's the Central Bank Fitness and Probity regulations you have to comply with. 

I have recommended to some people in circumstances similar to your own, that they should try to change job. The Fitness and Probity regime is crazy and is being abused by banks.  

Is your employer one of the lenders?


----------



## corktim (17 Mar 2013)

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for the reply.Yes its the Central Bank Fitness & probity but i dont work for one of the bank i have mortgages with. I have looked into it but the whole fitness & probity thing seems hard to understand. It seems to me like its up to the bank (my employer) to make a call on whether i have breached fitness & probity but maybe the judgement is non negotiable?

I have also heard that you may not loose your job but be moved to a different part of the business that is not covered under F&P.

Im borrowed with two lenders UB & Bosi so would have to get them both to agree to a deal if i surrender them of else go down the personal insolvency route but then you have the whole F&P issue again....


----------



## cormacol (18 Mar 2013)

Tim,

I have some knowledge of the F&P regime.

There are a couple of things that are important here:

1. What Does your contract say about F&P - I assume you sign something annually to say nothing has changed. This will probably determine what happens in the event of an employee not satisfying F&P.

2. What's your role in the organisation - are you definitely captured by F&P currently or is it a catch all that the company tells it staff about.

3. If a court judgement is filed against you or you are mde bankrupt then you are obliged to tell the company more than likely. They will need to assess whether the issue in question means you are no longer fit or proper to carry out the role. I guess you wold need to weight to telling them and what happens when they find out - remember thy re obliged to provide such info to future prospective employers if they ask for a reference under F&P.

If you are senior in the organisation and on good terms with HR or Compliance then it might be worth having an off the record conversation. You may also need to take legal advice depending on how things develop I guess.

Feel free to pm if you want to discuss.


----------



## Jim Stafford (19 Mar 2013)

The fitness & probity regime is concerned with competence and ability levels.

As Cormacol suggested, you should carefully review your employment contract and any staff hand books.

You are unlikely to lose your job if you can persuade your employer that any judgment obtained against you would not affect your day to day performance at work. If a cabinet minister can remain in cabinet after being hit with a €1.9 million judgment, then why cant you?

Jim Stafford


----------



## corktim (20 Mar 2013)

Hi guys,

Ill have to look at my contract and employee handbook to see what happens if i run into trouble with F&P. I am defo covered under it and had to sign something when i started and will have to do so on an annual basis.

Im not in a senior position but will check out what may happen on the QT and revert.


----------



## corktim (20 Mar 2013)

Jim i have seen your name in relation to personal insolvancy and maybe you could help me on this. Just to make matters worse i have a property with my sister,she is on the mortgage but not the title,she went on it to help me buy out my ex a few years ago. plan was that prices would increase and i would sell. if i were to go down the insolvency route or bankruptcy how would this affect her? she is married with her own house and also in neg equity.

Thanks

Tim


----------



## Bronte (21 Mar 2013)

corktim said:


> . Just to make matters worse i have a property with my sister,she is on the mortgage but not the title,
> 
> . if i were to go down the insolvency route or bankruptcy how would this affect her? she is married with her own house and also in neg equity.


 
Tim why on earth did you not outline the full story when you originally posted.  This is such a fundamentally important piece of information !

To answer your question, if you go bankrupt she becomes fully liable for the mortgage.  Bankruptcy will just mean you no longer owe it.


----------



## Jim Stafford (21 Mar 2013)

I concur with Bronte's advice.

Jim Stafford


----------



## corktim (21 Mar 2013)

sorry guys was kinda going in 2 directions. Thanks for the advice.


----------

