# slatterys travel company



## sue_flaherty (16 Sep 2009)

Hi 

Just found out today that this company is closing down as of yesterday.  i have a holiday (was a tour with guides) booked with them going to cuba on the 4th October.  Checked with them and at the moment they don't know whether this will go ahead or whether I will get a refund with them.  Wonder whether anyone else had booked with them and whether they had been told.


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## Marietta (16 Sep 2009)

According to their website you will gt your refund or else you will be able to travel.


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## sue_flaherty (17 Sep 2009)

Thanks - was aware of that.  Phoned both them and the aviation authority yesterday and at the moment they cannot tell me whether the trip I have booked will go ahead (going in little over 2 weeks time) - so will just have to wait and see.


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## Chief Seamus (30 Sep 2009)

How did you get on?
I am in a serious situation over this now. Slatterys had paid the airline but not the hotel.
We now have been given 3 choices (endorsed by the commission for aviation regulation):
- Take a partial refund for the hotel portion and take the hit on almost half the total price.
- Take inferior accommodation in an area unsuitable to people traveling with a small child
- Pay extra to get the original package that we already paid for.
Either way we lose! Where does the bonding come in?


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## oldnick (30 Sep 2009)

I am a travel agent -30 years in Dublin.

I am surprised at the way the Commission for Aviation Regulations have dealt with the Slattery debacle.

I am not a lawyer but my repeated reading over many years of the relevant legislation makes me believe that you are fully entitled to a refund. Without quibble.
You are not entitled to an alternative holiday. The legislation was put in place to protect the public against monetary loss when dealing with licensed travel companies .(This was done at a time 1982 when nearly all travel was booked through agents. Now its only 20% -the rest is on the internet ,yet we still have to have licences and bonds)

And for 27 years the bonding scheme has worked well- better and quicker here than in most EU countries.

Although it can take several weeks - as with any claim from any government department - at least you knew it was being refunded. Well, until now. With the Slattery case the Commission took an unprecedented action which has caused confusion and anxiety......

As per the Commission's website,  aviationreg.ie  (and I summarise here...) 
" all claims are being dealt with by Club Travel who have taken over the bookings of Slattery Travel".

Now, from what i have learned this does not mean that the booking will be done exactly as you had booked with Slattery -it means  that Club Travel will "try their best" to provide the travel arrangements booked with Slattery.

I contacted the Commission and asked them what happens if the client is not satisfied with the " best alternative" offer -or was told  by Club Travel that he/she had to pay more to get exactly what was booked with Slattery.  
In any event, I added, why is a government department  that was set up to handle claims from customers now handing over the task to private company, albeit a large capable one ?

The response was "Look we're up to our necks in travel company failures. we don't have the staff to deal with Slatterys collapse. Letting a private travel company take over our role is a way of getting as many customers as possible what they booked. "

When I pressed them about what about those clients who are not satisfied with an alternative offer (as is the case with you) the reply was typical of public servants who do not like being put on the spot  -"you have to put that question in writing ".

I repeat - it is the law that you get a full refund. It is not the law that you are offered exactly the same holiday.
You must decide whether you take the inferior accommodation, pay more for what you wanted -or refuse both and insist on the money. It is absolute nonsense that if you dont go on that holiday "you take a hit " on the ticket price..

I am guessing that whoever told about losing money if you don't go ahead was someone in Club Travel , rather than someone in the Commission.
After all, it is Club's  interest that you proceed with the booking - even though you never had a contract with them in the first place !

How the Commission is effectively forcing people to enter into a contract with Club Travel is beyond me. Club Travel has not taken over Slattery Travel -they have, according to the website of the Commission, just "taken over the booking" -which is a meaningless phrase with no validity in law. (I've checked with two seperate lawyers).

By the way, I'm just in the process of applying for my annual licence from the Commission -guess how well my comments will go down with them !! (I am the only Dublin travel agent called Nick).


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## sue_flaherty (30 Sep 2009)

all worked out fine for me - holiday was booked for this coming Sunday and is still going ahead.  Sorry to hear about the problems that others had


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## Graham_07 (1 Oct 2009)

oldnick said:


> How the Commission is effectively forcing people to enter into a contract with Club Travel is beyond me. Club Travel has not taken over Slattery Travel -they have, according to the website of the Commission, just "taken over the booking" -which is a meaningless phrase with no validity in law. (I've checked with two seperate lawyers).
> 
> By the way, I'm just in the process of applying for my annual licence from the Commission -guess how well my comments will go down with them !! (I am the only Dublin travel agent called Nick).


 
I was a bit confused by this too, I mean what's the whole point of Slattery's bond if they do this? Sounds like ComAvReg taking the easy way out, after all they are swamped the poor things 

Any chance of changing your name by deed poll before the licence renewal Nick


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## oldnick (1 Oct 2009)

If the licensing scheme that supposedly gives clients full and easy financial protection when they book with us is sullied then that takes away one of the last reasons to use a travel agent.

But there's something worse for travel agents-and apologies for kidnapping this thread - which is the new VAT regime applicable from 1 January.

As you know,Graham this means that we have to add VAT on to our commission/profit. Most agents act also as prinicipals nowadays -booking through tour operators is declining.

This means if we make 50 euros on putting together a package we have to charge the client  another 11 euros VAT. Even if we charge only a tenner for a quick airline booking we have to add another 2 euros VAT. (Crazily only for travel within EU!)

It's not just charging clients extra money (which will drive them to the internet even more quickly where they can book direct with no VAT) -It's the extra paperwork.


Apologies again for rant off the subject of Slattery/bonding.
If Chief Seamus wants any more advice post again.
I'd love to know how he got on.

P.S. Any jobs going for future ex-travel agent ?


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## undo (1 Oct 2009)

VAT stands for "value added tax". You are adding value by building a holiday package - and that extra value is subject to tax. How is that unfair? And if we used VAT's other name, GST, which stands for "goods and services tax", again, you are providing a service so there should be tax on that. Shops pay VAT/GST on all sales. Why should travel agents not?


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## oldnick (1 Oct 2009)

Yeah,fine. But..

1)  If the purpose of VAT,as with any tax, is to increase revenue for the state then this will have the opposite effect.

This tax will reduce revenue because many travel agents will close  -so there'll be no VAT revenue for govnt, no corporation tax for govnt, no PAYE/PRSI revenue for govnt .Oh, and more unemployment costs for govnt.

2) Even more weird is this :- the VAT is only charged on fees/profit for travel services to destinations within the EU. vat AT 21.5%.
But if I arrange a service to outside the EU the VAT is zero.
So this new VAT rule is effectively penalising /discouraging travellers to Greece but not Turkey, Spain but not Morocco. etc etc
Consequently, many agents are gearing up their programmes to outside Europe.

The EU is dear enough anyway -This VAT rule will only add to the cost of travel/ holidays within the EU.
Again, this is a tax that ultimately means less revenue for the govnt.

3) Incidentally, Shops charge VAT as you rightly state. But they get back the VAT they paid when they obtained the product from the factory/ wholesaler. We won't.
However, this isn't something that bothers me. However its applied this VAT ruling will mean a loss of revenue to the govnt and the closure of businesses that will ultimately cost everyone more.

4) The weirdest thing of all is I can set up an internet site in Bananaland selling packages to irish people to travel anywhere -they can pay by plastic- and there'll be no VAT hassle.


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## undo (1 Oct 2009)

Good points... let me go through them:  





oldnick said:


> 1)  If the purpose of VAT,as with any tax, is to increase revenue for the state then this will have the opposite effect.


  Like any government, the Irish one is completely ignorant of this fact. New taxes are always introduced as if the taxable amount was completely unaffected by them. Of course a new charge will mean the base (travel agent sales in this case) will go down. Still, the government *may* make some money if the decrease is not too large. This is very difficult to predict though.  





oldnick said:


> 2) Even more weird is this :- the VAT is only charged on fees/profit for travel services to destinations within the EU. vat AT 21.5%.


  The logic on this one is beyond me. It is kind of like the leave-the-country tax that is lower if you are fleeing via the western UK (€2) as opposed to anywhere else in Europe (€10). But hey, does this not actually give lazy travel agents (as you said yourself before, there are plenty of those) a kick, forcing them to finally stop just clicking on websites and booking Aer Lingus flights for people, instead concentrating on the still lucrative and much more difficult true overseas arrangements?  





oldnick said:


> 3) Incidentally, Shops charge VAT as you rightly state. But they get back the VAT they paid when they obtained the product from the factory/ wholesaler. We won't.


  It may be organized differently but in the end, the result is the same: You do not pay VAT on the product you are selling (flight, hotel, car rental, ...). So it is as if you paid VAT on all that you charged your client and then got it back for the part that you just re-sold. I fail to see how this is any different from what shops do.  





oldnick said:


> However its applied this VAT ruling will mean a loss of revenue to the govnt and the closure of businesses that will ultimately cost everyone more.


  Cannot argue with this one. New taxes always have such effects. But with all governments starting to feel the burdens of their immense bank bail-out packages and stimulus programs, expect many more "creative" taxes in the near future.  





oldnick said:


> 4) The weirdest thing of all is I can set up an internet site in Bananaland selling packages to irish people to travel anywhere -they can pay by plastic- and there'll be no VAT hassle.


  Such is the Internets. It opens up many new opportunities. High street travel agents die out, new Internet ones open up. The wheel of time keeps turning...


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## oldnick (1 Oct 2009)

Well, yes, generally agree with your comments.

 Point 3 re comparing with shops was incidental of little importance but I only wish that every shop/trader had to have a bond in place ,apply for licences each year, submit audited accounts annually (i.e. no self-assessment allowed for travel agents).

Yes, high-streets agents die out because of new technology like the internet, plus especially at present the recession. 
I just wish the govnt wasn't killing off the survivors during a period when alternative work was so difficult to find (not for me -I'm an old fellow, but for the hundreds of young travel staff being laid off. 2.000 so far this year and i reckon another 2.000 to follow in the next few months).


Getting back to the original thread -Slatterys.

We have today talked to someone in the Commission who now confirm that if anyone does not get exactly what they originally booked for are entitled to get a refund direct from the Commission.


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## Gervan (1 Oct 2009)

> the new VAT regime applicable from 1 January


 
Old Nick, you make this sound as though it only has to be considered after 01/01/10, but is it not applicable right now, to *moneys received for travel after 01/01/10*?


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## oldnick (1 Oct 2009)

If that's the case then I'm fxxxxd. And so is every travel agent, none of whom have charged VAT for travel after the Ist Jan. 

 To be honest I'm unsure of the VAT situation for someone who has paid a deposit now for travel next Easter -and will pay the balance ,say, mid-January.

Revenue only issued their 30 page guidelines this week  after months of delay/deliberations. Most of us are still trying to understand the rules  (a job for Graham 07?)....


..In the meantime I notice that undertakers are still VAT exempt. It seems that VAT is only applied to living people who travel,  not dead ones. The VAT situation regarding booking travel for the undead (zombies) is still unclear.


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## DoshDaisy (1 Oct 2009)

I was booked with Slatterys for travel this weekend.  Everything's going ahead with Club Travel now with the exception of ONE CRUCIAL Aspect - transfers from the airport to my accommodation!  Apparently I have to arrange this myself (as Slatterys seem to have booked it but not paid for it and Club say the transfer operators won't confirm with them, despite it being part of the original booking.)  They did however tell me to keep any receipts (for transfers) for refund by the comission.  A stressful ridiculous situation.


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## undo (1 Oct 2009)

DoshDaisy said:


> A stressful ridiculous situation.



I would say you are actually quite lucky. Almost all of your booking is going ahead with just one small aspect that - unfortunately - you have sort out yourself. A travel agent going belly-up is not an everyday situation and when it happens, all sorts of problems result. In your case, the problems are very minor. Enjoy your holiday and if you need something to make you feel better, think about how well off you are compared to those poor souls whose trips ended up getting canceled.


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## sunrock (6 Oct 2009)

Any nostalgia anyone.I used to take the slatterys coach to london 20 years ago when aer lingus was charging 200 + punts for the privledge...that must be about 2000e in todays money.Slaterrys was 40£ return and it was a long bus boat bus journey.Usually when one was half asleep in the bus ,you had to get out in the cold ,get your luggage and hang outside in the cold to get the boat and the same leaving the boat to get back on the bus.Afterfinally getting back to sleep after the winding roads of wales,the bus stopped and woken again at a service stop...the last bit on the motorway was much better.And believe me we were very thankful to slatterys for the sevice.People complain about ryanair and I do too but when I think of the slattery trips ....well it puts things into perspective and thank god for ryanair.
  But why in gods name did aer lingus charge so much at the time...they must have made a fortune.


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## elcato (6 Oct 2009)

Christmas 1987 from London and returning after New year £10 sterling return. Ryanair were already getting into the market and were about £100 return. Virgin also did a propeller job for £80.


> But why in gods name did aer lingus charge so much at the time...they must have made a fortune.           01-10-2009 11:47 PM


Because they could. They also had loads of workers and pensioners on the payroll - something similar to the CS today as they were after all a state owned company.


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## missc (7 Oct 2009)

Hi DoshDaisy I am sorry to hear about your holiday but there a transfer only companies out there if wish to book it before you travel send me a private mail and I can give you the details.


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## oldnick (8 Oct 2009)

As a travel agent i'm really nostalgic about the old days of travel..
high fares, no internet, no large choice of flights -nealry every piece of travel booked through travcel agents.. Ah, those were the  days !!!

But I'm a  realist . Those days are over. I accept the new reality.
 But, evidently, from today's news the staff of Aer Lingus don't.

it beggars belief that an airline that is losing millions, that faces such stiff competition from the likes of Ryanair and others, that has such high costs compared to others - that basically is on the verge of collapse - has employees that state today they "won't tolerate further reductions in our salaries/conditions/pensions etc "

(and the moaners include pilots who earn 200.000 euros per year for less hours than any other airlines pilots.)

..and the solution of the trade unions ? - industrial action ! 
Yeah,that'll make Aer Lingus profitable and save the jobs..... 

If the staff want to retain their jobs on present high manninglevels and salaries  is to go back to the 1980's and return to rip-off fares and no competition....

..um, I rather like that idea...


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## dkieran (4 Nov 2009)

Does anyone know what the situation is if you have to pay Club Travel additional monies on top of what you paid Slatterys in order to get the same holiday?

Is that money included in the bond system?

Do you have any recourse legal or otherwise?


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## oldnick (4 Nov 2009)

You either have to pay the extra money to Club to get the same holiday or you can insist on your money back from the Commission for Aviation Regulation.(aviationreg.ie)

You cannot claim from the bond the extra payment that Club is forcing you to pay.

Besides paying the costs of bringing back stranded clients of bust travel firms, the other purpose of the bond is to refund actual monies spent buying that holiday, not to pay extra costs obtaining the same holiday with another travel company.

========
_I started a rant on this months ago near the start of this thread..._

Basically, the whole deal between the Commission for Aviation Regulation and Club Travel is a scandal. When Slatterys went broke the Commission should have just refunded the money, via the normal refund application forms which are obtainable on line or over the phone.

Instead, in the case of Slatterys, the Commission stated that Club "were taking over the bookings " thus giving innocent customers like yourselves the impression that everything was O.K. - that is, whatever you booked with Slatterys would be done via Club.
Over the last few weeks customers have been told by Club that there is an extra charge of up to 50% on top of what Slatterys had charged. 

Unfortunately, customers don't realise that they should demand their money back immediately from the Commission and go and book somewhere else. The customers believe - and the aviationreg website strengthened this belief -that they had to pay extra otherwise they'd lose all their money. Not so -you're free to claim your money and book elsewhere. 

 (Perhaps because the Commission did something they had no right to do - rather than doing their duty to refund customers they pushed those customers to Club Travel who then charged extra - maybe there is a case for legal action. But against the government? Is it worth it ?)


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## dkieran (5 Nov 2009)

Thanks, just annoyed the way it all went down really.  Was told by Slatterys and Club Travel that all was ok (this all happened the week Slatterys ceased trading), everything was confirmed etc. and it was just a matter of printing tickets as all costs paid.  Then when we were getting someone to collect on Friday morning they rang and said they wouldn't issue tickets unless we paid an extra €2k, we were flying out the following monday for our honeymoon.

Don't think I'll ever forget the last few days before our wedding!


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## oldnick (5 Nov 2009)

From what you say it seems that you may have  case. Assuming the following is true:-
1. You had a contract with Slatterys -everything confirmed.
2. The government -i.e. Dept of Transport's Commission for AViation Regulation states that Club has "taken over S. bookings" - could a lawyer interpret that statement. To me and everyone I've talked to this meant exactly what it said -your booking had not changed, there was no big increase -it had simply been transferred with govnt blessing to Club Travel.
3. Club Travel confirmed this was the case -everything was fine.
4. At the last moment Club said - no holidays unless you give us another TWO THOUSAND euros !!!

If the above statments are true then perhaps you should have a brief chat with a lawyer. the question is -with whom is the argument - the Commission or Club travel ??


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## dkieran (6 Nov 2009)

Hi oldnick,

Thanks for your reply.  We have our solicitor looking into the whole situation at moment.

It appears that Club Travel in certain circumstances are suggesting to people (saw another tread in consumer issues & rights section) that Slatterys were erroneous in calculating costs involved with holiday, i.e. forgetting to include items that were requested like car hire, transfers etc. hence the reason for increased costs.

That would be an easy cop-out for them as the Club Travel person I was dealing with couldn't give me an itemised bill from Slatterys as it was an all in quote and they didn't know what we were being charged for each item....


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## oldnick (6 Nov 2009)

I don't know if this would help your lawyer. i publicly can't say anything more than what's below.

1. Slatterys went bust and then...
2. Either Club Travel approached the Commisison and offered to "take over the bookings" - or Slatterys told the Commisison that they're closing and that Club Travel would deal with the affected clients.

I don't know whether Club promisied that boOkings would be honoured at price Slatterys gave - if no such promise was given I don't know why Commission allowed -indeed promoted the fact on their website-that Club Travel were taking over the bookings.

3. After the Commission advertised the fact that Club Travel would deal with customers those customers were then told by Club they'd have to pay extra if they wanted their holiday . 
And many were charged extra - a couple who booked through mya gency for a Saltterys holiday was asked to pay 2K on top of the 5k price. I phoned the Commission and asked why was my client told to go through Club rather than let any travel agent deal with her , or indeed why didnt the Commission help her directly?


4. Following protests by customers and travel agents the Commission -after some days -amended their advice and told customers that customers could also deal directly with the Commission .

Your lawyers problem is deciding who erred -Club travel or Commission. I dont blame Club Travel for getting in on a  great opportunity to make money. Frankly i'm envious I'd love it if the Commission told people that they must deal only with my company if a large tour operator ceases trading (as one soon will !) and that I get all the profits.
Club saw a business opportunity. 
Commissions saw a way out of doing their job.

It's the Commission who were wrong in not dealing directly with the customers. So your lawyer may have a tough job.


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