# Purchasing new PC: Vista V's XP ?



## suicra05 (7 Jan 2008)

I am in the process of buying a new tower PC for the office at home. Should I go for one with Vista on it or stick to the old reliable XP?

Secondly, anybody know any good deals at present in PC's.


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## myate (7 Jan 2008)

I went with XP when I bought in March last year..it was 20 euros extra, but didn't want the hassle of Vista bugs. It might be sorted now, but if you know XP, I'd stick with it.


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## ClubMan (7 Jan 2008)

Personally I'd stick with _XP _too but _Google _for advice, reviews, experiences etc. For good deals on _Dells _check out the boards.ie Bargain Alerts forum where good offers and value codes for _Dell _laptops and desktops are often posted.


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## bigjoe_dub (7 Jan 2008)

would stick with XP.


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## Jethro (7 Jan 2008)

I know this reply bucks the trend a bit...  

...but I got a new Dell PC last June and went with Vista and I've had no problems at all worth mentioning. 

I suspect that upgrading an existing machine from XP to Vista was always likely to produce some issues but that going with Vista from the beginning on a new machine was less likely to give problems.

But this is more of a hunch than a technical opinion.  

Anyhow, just felt I'd put in a plug for the much-maligned Vista.

Cheers.


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## budapest (7 Jan 2008)

I'd definitely stick with XP.  Vista is a disaster.  Even if it did work properly, I'm not sure if there are enough additional benefits to upgrade.


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## RMCF (7 Jan 2008)

I'd stick with XP too.

I currently use XP, and recently bought a new laptop and also went for one with XP.

I had heard too many of the problems that Vista was having and didn't want this, but I am sure that these issues will be sorted out with time. It was quite new after all.

Also, it is more RAM hungry and XP on a similar spec PC will run faster.

But we will eventually all have to go the Vista route as new software will invariably not support XP after a few years.


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## ClubMan (7 Jan 2008)

Jethro said:


> I suspect that upgrading an existing machine from XP to Vista was always likely to produce some issues but that going with Vista from the beginning on a new machine was less likely to give problems.
> 
> But this is more of a hunch than a technical opinion.


I know of plenty of people who did not upgrade _XP _to _Vista _but have terrible problems with _Vista_.


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## Jethro (9 Jan 2008)

Looks like, for once in my life, I've been lucky then.

Cue PC self-combusting in background...


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## stir crazy (9 Jan 2008)

My attitude is, that because I have the original installation DVDS for Win Xp Pro from Dell which came with my original system. I'd consider getting Vista (in disk form with a new system) but not using it. Instead I would install  XP from my already purchased disks.
That way I d have XP and also be able to install Vista when they get their act together and produce some service packs to make it easier.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

stir crazy said:


> My attitude is, that because I have the original installation DVDS for Win Xp Pro from Dell which came with my original system. I'd consider getting Vista (in disk form with a new system) but not using it. Instead I would install  XP from my already purchased disks.


Will  this necessarily work? Not all _OEM _versions will work with all machines even from the same manufacturer as far as I know. Also you'd be in breach of the license if you installed the same version multiple times.


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## Pique318 (9 Jan 2008)

I have XP on my old laptop but with a partitioned HD install rather than CDs. 
Is it easy to make CDs of this to install it on a new laptop with Vista if Vista annoys me/doesn't work with my apps etc ?


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

Pique318 said:


> I have XP on my old laptop but with a partitioned HD install rather than CDs.
> Is it easy to make CDs of this to install it on a new laptop with Vista if Vista annoys me/doesn't work with my apps etc ?


Some vendors who supply the recovery installation image this way also provide information or tolls for creating a _CD _image. However the caveat in the previous post also applies.


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## chris20051 (9 Jan 2008)

Vista is ready for the bin, I would rather keep me old pc forever rather to change to Vista there is so many problems with the new Windows Program, how Microsoft can get anyway with it god knows


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

chris20051 said:


> there is so many problems with the new Windows Program


What program do you mean? _Vista _itself, some specific application or something else?


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## aircobra19 (9 Jan 2008)

stir crazy said:


> My attitude is, that because I have the original installation DVDS for Win Xp Pro from Dell which came with my original system. I'd consider getting Vista (in disk form with a new system) but not using it. Instead I would install  XP from my already purchased disks.
> That way I d have XP and also be able to install Vista when they get their act together and produce some service packs to make it easier.



The original XP licence is with the machine. So you can only use it on that machine. Even if it will probably work on another Dell


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## aircobra19 (9 Jan 2008)

I was using Vista for about 4 months but I've gone back to XP now. Theres nothing in it that I need over XP. I like some of the new interface. But I found a problem, it doesn't copy/merge folders/files reliably. It decides itself where to copy certain file/folder types and also leaves behind empty folders, and/or files seemingly at random.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

aircobra19 said:


> The original XP licence is with the machine. So you can only use it on that machine. Even if it will probably work on another Dell


That's what I thought and posted here saying the same thing a while back but some others claimed that you could transfer the license in some or all cases.


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## aircobra19 (9 Jan 2008)

[broken link removed]

You can transfer a retail version but not OEM legally at least. AFAIK.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

OK - that makes sense. I should have more confidence in my own opinions.


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## stir crazy (9 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Will  this necessarily work? Not all _OEM _versions will work with all machines even from the same manufacturer as far as I know. Also you'd be in breach of the license if you installed the same version multiple times.



Well luckily enough for me I appear to have been given a retail version in dvd form when I purchased my desktop 5 years ago. Thats one thing DELL really did well for me. Maybe it was because at the time I paid a little extra to upgrade from Xp HOME to Xp PRO.
So I dont appear to have an OEM version. As for installing multiple times, my old computer is nearly at the end of its life so I wouldnt really be doing that. I d just be transferring my licence across to a new hardware configuration. I dont Windows Update would have a problem with that as I've already custoised and upgraded the original computer beyong recognition in the meantime in any case.



aircobra19 said:


> The original XP licence is with the machine. So you can only use it on that machine. Even if it will probably work on another Dell



As far as I'm concerned I paid for a licence to use Win XP Pro on any pc I choose and my version is exactly ther same as the retail version.




aircobra19 said:


> [broken link removed]
> 
> You can transfer a retail version but not OEM legally at least. AFAIK.



That seems to be my position. I think I have my behind covered . At least I would hope so even though my care factor = zero  as long as it works which it does.


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## aircobra19 (9 Jan 2008)

You are bound by the licence you bought. Not if works or not, I'd assume. Bear in mind Microsoft charge what they like, where they get away with it, and nothing where they don't. Dell cynically charge you to downgrade to XP. Depending on the config you buy. All very fair I don't think.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

stir crazy said:


> As far as I'm concerned I paid for a licence to use Win XP Pro on any pc I choose and my version is exactly ther same as the retail version.


Strictly what matters is not your opinion but the terms & conditions of the licensing agreement. But anyway...


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## suicra05 (29 Jan 2008)

I spoke with a Dell sales rep this morning. She seem to be pushing Vista as against XP on a new PC. She says all initial vista problems are gone. Is there any reason why Dell want you to go Vista rather than XP. They are charging you extra for XP and don't even give you the disks?


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## aircobra19 (29 Jan 2008)

What odds she could supply in wiriting this list of problems? I would assume MS has a deal with Dell to push Vista. Its very mean spirited not to supply the disks. Especially as they include other crud in the box. I'd be happy swap MS Works/Roxio/McAfee/Norton for just an OS disk and a driver disk. Incidentally the Dell Outlet machines come with disks for no extra, and 1yr warranty.

I just bought two Dell Vista machines. Arrived yesterday. Neither of them can merge folders/files reliably, both are very slow as configured, when they shouldn't be. Both are slow at copying files/folders. I'll be putting XP on them.


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## silvamuppet (29 Jan 2008)

suicra05 said:


> She says all initial vista problems are gone.



It depends what she means by initial problems. What Microsoft admitted as initial problems i suspect differ from the IT community's
It's still buggy. 

Vista has not improved much (IMO) since it was launched. The memory footprint is still just shy of a gig on a clean install with nothing installed but the OS . And it's security features would drive you to drink (constantly asking you if you're sure you want to run this or that etc etc etc. Admittedly that is a 'feature' rather than a bug)



suicra05 said:


> Is there any reason why Dell want you to go Vista rather than XP. They are charging you extra for XP and don't even give you the disks?



hell yeah. They get more commission off microsoft from what I am aware.
MSoft want them to push Vista as much as possible. Not sure if they are paying out for XP any more! (I assume it's Dell home sales you are talking about....their outlet store will push what ever was installed initially on the returned/damaged machine and there is no negotiation on those)


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## sfag (31 Jan 2008)

just bought a few new laptops from Dell myself and choose XP. I've seen vista running on fairly high powered machines and man it is slow.

On the downside it looks like dell wont deliver my pc for two weeks. They used to be fast - whats happened? Looks like they've gone all Indian and gotten rid of their Irish staff as well.


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## ClubMan (31 Jan 2008)

sfag said:


> Looks like they've gone all Indian and gotten rid of their Irish staff as well.


How are you judging this? Perhaps they have outsourced their call centre to _India _or something? Or they have _Indian _people working here in _Ireland_? Either way what relevance is this to your delivery lead time?


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## aircobra19 (31 Jan 2008)

The issues with Dells lead times recent is all over the web. New machines, new screens in short supply. If you want a machine buy off the outlet. 

You can turn of the UAC in Vista and all the bells and whistles, especially the indexing and system restore which all speed it up. Its still slower than XP. I'm not holding my breath on SP1 tbh.


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## PeterMurphy3 (4 Feb 2008)

sfag said:


> just bought a few new laptops from Dell myself and choose XP. I've seen vista running on fairly high powered machines and man it is slow.
> 
> On the downside it looks like dell wont deliver my pc for two weeks. They used to be fast - whats happened? Looks like they've gone all Indian and gotten rid of their Irish staff as well.



most of dell support has come from india for over 2 years now and what really effects delievery times are
a) how near to the end of the quarter you are when you order
b) spec of machine. some components are on long lead times


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## kobam (9 Feb 2008)

Hi guys note that when a new program is being introduced to the market like Vista you need to allow time before you put your computer on upgrade as it might still be going thr. testing period. Only new one will work well as testing must have being completed on phase level.


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## aircobra19 (9 Feb 2008)

Its not like people are installing a beta. Its been out for almost a year and its meant to be a finished product. Of course software is never finished. Thats its nature.


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## massey2 (13 Feb 2008)

Just wondering can you still buy a laptop with windows XP


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2008)

Yes.


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## Sylvester3 (13 Feb 2008)

Service Pack 1 for Vista has just been released with some major changes. Looks like it might make Vista a little bit more bearable for those stuck with it. I think I will continue waiting, mind you.


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## ClubMan (13 Feb 2008)

Great - now they might get the finger out and release _XP SP3 _finally!


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## cernunnos (13 Feb 2008)

If you purchase a new Dell system with either Vista Business or Vista Ultimate you can downgrade to Win XP Pro for free (doesn't apply to other Vista versions). You can use any (even OEM) Win XP Pro install cd to do this.

After installing XP ring the Microsoft OEM activation team stating your wish to exercise downgrade rights for Vista Business/Ultimate. Rep will ask for existing Vista licence details along with:
 - End User Licence Agreement ( EULA) number - this is licence certificate shipped with the Dell PC
 - Certificate of Authencity (COA) number - this is also shipped with PC and is located on hologram sticker on PC

Rep will then give new activation codes that allow you to complete install of Win XP Pro.

How long this will continue for I'm not sure.

And as someone who regularly sorts issues for the average computer user... VISTA SUCKS!.... at the moment.


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## PeterMurphy3 (14 Feb 2008)

I really wish microsoft wouldnt would stop trying to force this through and listen to the customer. perhaps because they did such a good job with xp it seems to me there is very little demand for this product


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## diarmuidc (14 Feb 2008)

PeterMurphy3 said:


> I really wish microsoft wouldnt would stop trying to force this through and listen to the customer. perhaps because they did such a good job with xp it seems to me there is very little demand for this product


I really don't get why customers continue to support and reward Microsoft with their hard earned money. There are far better alternatives with the pain of switchover practically nil. You do realise that spyware, malware and viruses are Microsoft phenomena? The last Windows box I had would only connect to the internet for about 5 mins before it shut down due to some remote exploit. I canned it after that.


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## aircobra19 (14 Feb 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> I really don't get why customers continue to support and reward Microsoft with their hard earned money. There are far better alternatives with the pain of switchover practically nil. You do realise that spyware, malware and viruses are Microsoft phenomena? The last Windows box I had would only connect to the internet for about 5 mins before it shut down due to some remote exploit. I canned it after that.



FUD. You should make sure a computer is properly configured BEFORE connecting it to the internet. If you do theres no problem. You install a free firewall, AV and antispyware, takes 5 mins. End of issue. Oh and stop browsing dodgy sites and don't click on "You've won a million $$$$$" etc. I know pensioners with no interest or experience in computers but who manage that much. 

You can buy a PC laptop for half the price of a Macbook, and a far greater spec. (assuming you shop around) I'm not saying OS X isn't good, it is. But XP is pretty easy to manage. Some would have you believe you can't turn it on without the russian mafia fleecing you and you PC self destructing, mission impossible style. 

Having said that I like Mac's been using them since system 6. I think they are nice machines, its a nice user experience and would aways suggest people check them out, unless theres software thats better suited to a PC.


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## ClubMan (14 Feb 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> I really don't get why customers continue to support and reward Microsoft with their hard earned money. There are far better alternatives with the pain of switchover practically nil.


Not much of an option for the many people who have non _Mac _hardware?


> You do realise that spyware, malware and viruses are Microsoft phenomena?


Not totally correct:

4.1 The vulnerability of operating systems to viruses


> Although Windows is by far the most popular operating system for virus writers, some viruses also exist on other platforms.


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## aircobra19 (14 Feb 2008)

Theres always Unix or Linux.


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## ClubMan (14 Feb 2008)

aircobra19 said:


> Theres always Unix or Linux.


I'm losing some of my faith in _Ubuntu _having spent several nights trying to get various things working on a _Dell Latitude C400 _compact laptop. Basic stuff that works straight off with _XP_... e.g.:

Blank screen on booting (probably _GRUB _screen resolution issue) so no indication of what's going on.
Cannot recover from suspend to disk mode so only full shutdowns/reboots work
Cannot get the _Dell TrueMobile 1150 mini-PCI _wireless card working other than with open networks with the default _orinoco_cs _driver - certainly cannot use _WPA_. A custom driver from the _Ubuntu _forums which worked for some people doesn't work at all for me. I tried looking at _NdisWrapper _but it would not install for me and the instructions for use seemed overly complicated.
Using the trackpad causes the mouse to jump erratically all over the screen even though this works fine when booted from the _Ubuntu_ 7.04 live _CD_.


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## aircobra19 (14 Feb 2008)

Have to hold my hands up here. I always run out of time and patience with Linux. Theres always something I can't get working. Been dabbling with it for years. But I always go back to MS or Apple. So from that point of View, OS X is a very easy Unix to use.


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## diarmuidc (14 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Not much of an option for the many people who have non _Mac _hardware?


True. But the subject of this discussion is "Purchasing new PC:"



ClubMan said:


> Not totally correct:


From the article it's not very explicit, but there are *no *in-the-wild viruses for either MacOS or Linux.



aircobra19 said:


> Have to hold my hands up here. I always run out of time and patience with Linux.


I agree but it has it uses. I installed Ubuntu on an old computer about 3 years ago. That computer runs 24/7 with automatic backups being made to it from my Apple every day and it plays my music. I never have to touch it. It doesn't even have a keyboard of monitor.


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