# "90% of cases have been fully redressed"



## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2016)

ptsb released their results today and in the press statement, they say: 

permanent tsb Group Holdings plc announces Final results for 2015

"Mortgage Redress Programme

1,372 cases were identified in the Mortgage Redress Programme announced on 28 July 2015 and, as at the end of February 2016, approximately 90% of those cases have now been fully redressed."

This means that there are only 140 cases actually still in the Appeals System.

Assuming that this is true, it means that it will be very difficult to get a big group together to mount a legal challenge to the 3.35% tracker rate.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2016)

It appears that they have made a provision of €104m for this.  The figure comes from the Auditor's Report 



"The group has recognised a provision of €104 million in respect of legacy legal and compliance liabilities. We have focused on the total

provision for legacy legal and compliance liabilities as until such time  as all potentially affected customers are identified, the quantification

of such provision requires management judgement and is subject to significant estimation uncertainty in respect of identifying the level

of customers requiring redress, the related compensation and costs associated with the investigation."


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Mar 2016)

*Provision for legacy legal and compliance liabilities*
The provision relates to legal and compliance costs of on-going disputes in relation to legacy business issues with certain customers and other actions, including a mortgage redress programme in connection with an on-going investigation by the Central Bank of Ireland.

In December 2015, the Group received an industry-wide letter from the Central Bank of Ireland instructing it to undertake a review of its tracker mortgages. The terms of this review are broadly consistent with the Mortgage Redress Program announced by the Group in 2015 however there are challenging timelines mandated by the review and the full impact of the review cannot be determined with certainty until a full population of impacted loans has been determined and individual cases are reviewed.

The Group has taken the view, based on the available information and the level of complexity and uncertainty around the range of potential outcomes, that the provision set out above represents its best estimate of the potential costs at 31 December 2015. However, there is significant estimation uncertainty inherent in this provision. The matter is being kept under review as more information becomes available. Further disclosure of the information usually required by IAS37, Provisions, Contingent Liabilities and
Contingent Assets, is not provided on the grounds that it can be expected to prejudice the position of the Group.


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## Bronte (9 Mar 2016)

[QUOTE="Brendan Burgess, post: 1465932, member: 1

The Group has taken the view, based on the available information and the level of complexity and uncertainty around the range of potential outcomes, that the provision set out above represents its best estimate of the potential costs at 31 December 2015. However, there is significant estimation uncertainty inherent in this provision. [/QUOTE]

What does this mean?  That they cannot figure out how much they owe people (some) and that it will depend on the legal action these people take and they don't know how a court will decide it?


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## PadKiss (9 Mar 2016)

I believe the headline is incorrect and what is meant is that 90% have replied with their Redress Letter which is poles apart from each case being fully Redressed as I have none that are. Padraic


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## Bronte (9 Mar 2016)

More sneaky stuff, I re read it based on your last post Padraic and see now what it means.  One would be forgiven for thinking 90% were resolved.  I wonder what the newspapers are saying.


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## Bronte (9 Mar 2016)

*RTE*
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0309/773571-permanent-tsb-results/

_Permanent TSB also provided an update to its redress scheme for tracker mortgage customers who were improperly prevented from reverting to their tracker rates after fixing their repayments for a set term. 

The bank said that 90% of the nearly 1,400 cases have now been fully redressed.

Speaking on Morning Ireland, the bank's chief executive Jeremy Masding said that 30 of the banks' customers who were involved in the redress scheme are "still going through a process which may lead to legal action"._

*Translation on reading it as a normal person.  90% solved.  A mere 30 cases at issue.  I double checked the press release and it's not mentioned here.  So one would have to listen to Morning Ireland to figure out what he actually said.  
*
INDO & IT
*
Nothing on the redress scheme.  (business sections) but IT did mention the radio interview.  *


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## Black_Adder (9 Mar 2016)

*
"Mortgage Redress Programme 

*
"1,372 cases were identified in the Mortgage Redress Programme announced on 28 July 2015 and, as at the end of February 2016, approximately 90% of those cases have now been fully redressed." That is what was contained in market announcement. BTW - it is institutional investors he is concerned about - nobody else.

What this simply says is that PTSB have dealt with 90% of the cases from their stand point.
Even if you accepted the redress letter you still have further rights.

Mr Masding would have been advised to keep whatever he is saying to the above. He would have been unwise to have mentioned 30 cases unless he was referring to proceedings that have been initiated and that were served on PTSB. All he will have done is draw more attention to the practice " ha ha we did not put any margin if your letter of offer" marvellous deviancy!


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## Bronte (9 Mar 2016)

Black Adder my view of this carry on is to lead people in the scheme to think everybody is accepting the situation and that they are the odd one out and haven't a chance.  That puts off people.  Hopefully the likes of Charlie Weston in the Indo and BB on here and Padraic Kissane etc will counteract this.   A nice cutting article by Weston would be nice tomorrow !


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## rodger (10 Mar 2016)

Masding when interviewed on utv Ireland news was asked to explain how the mistakes were made. All he could say was he now wanted to satisfy the central bank.

Weasely words.

And the suggestion was then made in the piece that maybe it was time for heads of banks to roll.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2016)

Apparently, at the press conference to announce the results yesterday, they said that they had made provisions of €140m, and so far they have paid out €40m to the 90% who have accepted the redress offered. 









These provisions cover the Redress Programme and the wider tracker review announced at the end of December. 

It's interesting that the bulk of the provision was made in 2014, although the redress programme was not announced until July 2015. 

So they knew about it at least 6 months earlier, but said nothing about it publicly.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2016)

Here is Investec's analysis of the figures: 

*Mortgage Redress:*

·  Remaining provision of €104m (reduced from €119m) will be allocated to the 10% of ‘unmediated’ customers for whom issues have been identified (our observation is that this seems a very high amount in the context of just 137 cases) – it will also account for third party costs (legal and advisory).

·  CBI mortgage redress review is wider-ranging and will take time to conclude (our observation is that there is risk that there will be more provisions required to account for this – however, any surplus provision contained in the €104m above could partially/fully offset).

·  Management _“continue to believe we are appropriately provided”_.


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## Black_Adder (11 Mar 2016)

The issue on the redress is as follows:

- PTSB have done their remediation based on what they think they had to do
- you got your redress letter and you can appeal it
- or you can go to Court whether you accepted the redress or not
- PTSB have used the 'appropriate tracker' [Burgess says its ok - Adder says its a fiction - more later]
- PTSB say there is an independent appeal (what this means is independent of Management but we have seen no terms of reference at all]
- The additional consequential losses that PTSB will award are based on proving the loss.

So if there are 1,372 cases and 10% reject, it is not the case that the 90% are full and final.

The market accepts the provision as it not based on the 10%.


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## Bronte (13 Mar 2016)

90 customers have objected to the offer

http://www.independent.ie/business/...ppeal-ptsbs-compensation-offers-34534143.html

The article doesn't have any detail as to why etc


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## AAM_User (13 Mar 2016)

I don't read that as having "objected" to it, instead asking for the offer to (rightly IMO) be reviewed.  

Everybody's needs to be reviewed.


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