# NIB Ditch Free Banking For New Customers and now existing customers



## Lightning

NIB have removed free banking for new customers. 

The free day-to-day banking NIB 'Easy Account' is no longer open to new applications as of last Friday. 

NIB have launched a new current account called '24/7' that gives free banking for 20 EUR a year. 

[broken link removed]

Ulster are now the one and only option for free day-to-day banking. For now.


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## serotoninsid

CiaranT said:


> The free day-to-day banking NIB 'Easy Account' is no longer open to new applications as of last Friday.


So it won't be phased out for existing account holders?  I just use it to service NIB mortgage payments ( a requirement when I took out the mortgage with them).


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## Lightning

serotoninsid said:


> So it won't be phased out for existing account holders?  I just use it to service NIB mortgage payments ( a requirement when I took out the mortgage with them).



Who knows. 

As things currently stand, old customers who had an "Easy" but not an "Easy Plus" current account get free banking.


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## Lightning

NIB have started calling customers on their old free accounts and pushing them to switch. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76834515


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## serotoninsid

CiaranT said:


> NIB have started calling customers on their old free accounts and pushing them to switch. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76834515


In my case, I only use the a/c - out of obligation - as they insisted upon it when taking out the mortgage.  Can they bring this about - i.e. force people off the product their on?  If someone only uses a/c to finance their mortgage, can they install a monthly quaterly fee (which would be unfair) rather than a 'per transaction' fee (which really wouldn't amount to anything significant)??


Lastly, I was led to believe this was a stipulation of the mortgage - never got round to checking for sure.  Anyone out there with NIB mortgage where they know this to be a cast iron condition of the mortgage?


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## Willy Fogg

CiaranT said:


> NIB have started calling customers on their old free accounts and pushing them to switch. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76834515



To be fair, that's a single reported incident which could be purely a co-incidence that's come about by NIB doing reviews of their customers.


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## Lightning

serotoninsid said:


> In my case, I only use the a/c - out of obligation - as they insisted upon it when taking out the mortgage.  Can they bring this about - i.e. force people off the product their on?  If someone only uses a/c to finance their mortgage, can they install a monthly quaterly fee (which would be unfair) rather than a 'per transaction' fee (which really wouldn't amount to anything significant)??
> 
> 
> Lastly, I was led to believe this was a stipulation of the mortgage - never got round to checking for sure.  Anyone out there with NIB mortgage where they know this to be a cast iron condition of the mortgage?



I would guess that NIB are able to review the charges on the account retrospectively.


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## serotoninsid

CiaranT said:


> I would guess that NIB are able to review the charges on the account retrospectively.


Thanks for the clarification.  I don't mind if it's a 'per transaction' charge - as that would be at negligible cost.  However, if they were to impose a fixed charge per quater, I would be a tad peeved.  In fact, it would be disingenuous to make folks use a current account in order to take a mortgage from them - and then start charging them even though it's only used to fund mortgage?

I'm jumping the gun here I guess, but would this be a little bit unethical (_were_ it to play out this way)?  IF this was the scenario, would a customer have a valid cause for complaint - or would the fact that it was made part of the mortgage agreement mean that a customer would have no recourse?


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## ang1170

CiaranT said:


> NIB have launched a new current account called '24/7' that gives free banking for 20 EUR a year.


 
I always smile when I see a phrase like "free banking for 20 EUR a year"....


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## Lightning

More information has come out on this, thanks to the Irish Independent. 

The new 24/7 account is 20 EUR per year plus 25 cent per ATM transaction plus 25 cent per Laser transaction. 

Best buys are updated.


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## Lightning

*NIB Ends Free Banking for *Existing* Customers*

A few weeks ago NIB ended from banking for new customers. 

NIB have now ended free banking for some/all existing customers. 

http://www.independent.ie/business/...-banking-on-all-current-accounts-3038435.html

The Irish independent says "all current accounts" but later in the article says the change will only effect "people who have free current accounts taken out before 2006". 



> In the next few days, NIB is set to start writing to its customers who have Easy accounts to tell them it will now impose quarterly fees, transaction charges of up to 30c each and fees for renewing an overdraft.
> 
> Customers with old Easy accounts will have to choose a 24/7 account, Easy Plus or Prestige.
> 
> Fees every three months on the 24/7 are €5, and are €18.75 on the Easy Plus accounts, but rise to €31.25 for the Prestige account.


Ulster Bank, for now, still offer free day-to-day banking.


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## theresa1

The article like many nowadays in this paper is very poorly written. We will need to get more definitive information.


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## DrMoriarty

I'll be arguing this one with them. I have a tracker mortgage with them and effectively have no option but to keep a current account with them (as discussed in this thread). I'm not going to bite my nose off to spite my face, of course, but I will make it clear to them that, on principle, I will remove as much of my business from them as I possibly can if they try to force me to pay these fees. Cards, chequebook, online banking, the works. The rolling credit balance in my account — my salary and everything else goes straight into it — earns me practically zero interest and should be worth more than €20p.a. to them.

It's a pity, because despite the inconvenience of the recent 'cashless branch' changes, I do find their online banking to be one of the best I've seen.



serotoninsid said:


> I'm jumping the gun here I guess, but would this be a little bit unethical (_were_ it to play out this way)?  IF this was the scenario, would a customer have a valid cause for complaint - or would the fact that it was made part of the mortgage agreement mean that a customer would have no recourse?


It looks very much to me like a case of moving the goalposts. When I entered into a contract with them, the requirement to keep a current account with them was one that (at least potentially) implied no additional cost to me. This constitutes a unilateral alteration of those conditions and would therefore, to my inexpert eye, seem to be in breach of that contract. We'll see...


_P.S. Thanks for the update, CiaranT. I've merged the two threads on this matter; hope that's OK?_


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## serotoninsid

DrMoriarty said:


> It looks very much to me like a case of moving the goalposts. When I entered into a contract with them, the requirement to keep a current account with them was one that (at least potentially) implied no additional cost to me. This constitutes a unilateral alteration of those conditions and would therefore, to my inexpert eye, seem to be in breach of that contract. We'll see...


Yes, I would be curious to hear what opinion others hold on this.  In the meantime, I guess there is nothing stopping you from just using the current a/c to finance the mortgage - and otherwise, take your current a/c banking elsewhere?  

If the charges are per transaction rather than a fixed fee (regardless of frequency of use), then I guess it won't affect anyone who just uses it simply to feed into the NIB tracker.   Is that the case?  Anyone any link to the fees?


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## Lightning

They is a real need for clarity from NIB. 



DrMoriarty said:


> _P.S. Thanks for the update, CiaranT. I've merged the two threads on this matter; hope that's OK?_



No probs, I have updated the thread title.


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## potnoodler

They do seem to be trying to shed as many customers as possibly , going cashless is big for a lot of people , not for me but 25c per transaction is robbery, they will get very little from me as will change my behaviour which is maybe want they want


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## Asco

My understanding of the nib service account was that there could be no charges attached to it. This falls under the CCA where in taking a mortgage you can not be required to take additional products. The service account was purely an admin thing and therefore did not fall under the category of a product, if they are now requiring you open a current a/c with associated fees then surely this is a breach of the act?


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## serotoninsid

Asco said:


> My understanding of the nib service account was that there could be no charges attached to it. This falls under the CCA where in taking a mortgage you can not be required to take additional products. The service account was purely an admin thing and therefore did not fall under the category of a product, if they are now requiring you open a current a/c with associated fees then surely this is a breach of the act?


I'm a bit fuzzy on the detail now as its a few years back that I switched my mortgage to them.  From what I recollect, they initially were suggesting that I would have to switch my current account over.  I guess I resisted this - and they didn't push the agenda after that - just said that I would need to have it open in order to service the mortgage.


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## ang1170

Can anyone give definitive advice on whether introducing a charge on an a/c that was required to be set up to service a mortgage is allowed or not? It seems to me to be an effective change in the cost of the mortgage.

I just received notice today that I will no longer have free banking with NIB - something I've had with them in one form or another for many years.

My natural reaction is to close the a/c, but I can't do this because it is being used to service my mortgage with them.


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## Knuttell

ang1170 said:


> My natural reaction is to close the a/c, but I can't do this because it is being used to service my mortgage with them.



Wait until the day after your next mortgage payment goes out,close that account,ring up customer care and give them the sort code and account number  you now wish the mortgage DD to come out of.
Ring up again the next day and verify that this new account is updated on their system.


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## DrMoriarty

Whoa... if your mortgage is a tracker — and even if it's not — read the thread linked to above, before you close any account! 

Better still, read your original loan agreement closely.


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## scallywag

NIB called me a few times recently, asking me to come in so they could review my accounts.

I was surprised by this and said I was perfectly happy with things the way they were. I'm naturally very suspicious about something like this

Now I'm guessing it might have been related to this change. I've heard nothing from them regarding charges to date.


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## Lightning

scallywag said:


> NIB called me a few times recently, asking me to come in so they could review my accounts.
> 
> I was surprised by this and said I was perfectly happy with things the way they were. I'm naturally very suspicious about something like this
> 
> Now I'm guessing it might have been related to this change. I've heard nothing from them regarding charges to date.



NIB started by asking existing customers to change current account type. 
NIB are now forcing existing customers to change current account type.


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## helens

iv an Easy current account with a small(ish) Overdraft,i also have a tracker mortgage with them.I wonder will they reveiw the overdraft now when they change over our accounts as part of the process?
seems the Cheapest of their new accounts doesnt even offer a o/d anyway !


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## Lightning

helens said:


> seems the Cheapest of their new accounts doesnt even offer a o/d anyway !



All 3 NIB accounts [broken link removed]. 

The AER is up to 11%.


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## scallywag

I got a letter today:

"From 7th May 2012, your National Irish Bank Easy account(s) will be replaced by our new 24/7 package..."

so no choice there.

They helpfully add "if you decide our changes are not for you, you can of course choose to close your account by writing to your local branch".


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## serotoninsid

scallywag said:


> I got a letter today:
> 
> "From 7th May 2012, your National Irish Bank Easy account(s) will be replaced by our new 24/7 package..."
> 
> so no choice there.
> 
> They helpfully add "if you decide our changes are not for you, you can of course choose to close your account by writing to your local branch".


I have an easy account - but have not (as yet..) received this letter.  However, I have just mailed someone in NIB - for clarification.  Will post back the response here when I have it.


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## ang1170

scallywag said:


> I got a letter today:
> 
> "From 7th May 2012, your National Irish Bank Easy account(s) will be replaced by our new 24/7 package..."
> 
> so no choice there.
> 
> They helpfully add "if you decide our changes are not for you, you can of course choose to close your account by writing to your local branch".


 
This is the same letter I got. 

However, it is a condition of my tracker mortgage with them that I maintain a current a/c with them. Until now, there were no charges associated with this. With the introduction of charges, this now looks to me to be in breach of the banking consumer protection code, which states: "A *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]regulated entity *[/FONT][/FONT]must not make the sale of a product or service contingent on the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer *[/FONT][/FONT]purchasing another product or service from the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]regulated entity*[/FONT][/FONT]. "

I've contacted them about this. It will be interesting to see what way this plays out....


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## twofor1

ang1170 said:


> It will be interesting to see what way this plays out....


 
I agree, my T&c’s state;

Where your general current account is not maintained by us (you are not obliged to do so) you must maintain a separate current account with us (to service the loan) on our usual terms or such other terms as may be agreed………………………………..

I think if pushed they would have to waive this charge if the a/c was only used to service the mortgage, any other activity whatsoever and the charge would apply. 

Either through the necessity of needing a current account or complacency the vast majority will stay with NIB and pay these charges.

I have two free current a/c’s with them and have not yet received the letter.


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## ang1170

twofor1 said:


> I think if pushed they would have to waive this charge if the a/c was only used to service the mortgage, any other activity whatsoever and the charge would apply.


 
I think they may well have to: on reading the Consumer Protection Code in a bit more detail, there's a clause:

"Where a *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]credit institution [/FONT][/FONT]*requires a *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer [/FONT][/FONT]*to open a feeder account in order to avail of another product, this shall not be prevented by Provision 3.17 where all of the following conditions are met: 
a) the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer [/FONT][/FONT]*must not be obliged to use the feeder account for purposes other than facilitating payments to the product concerned; 
b) *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]charges [/FONT][/FONT]*cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established; 
c) where additional facilities are available on the feeder account they must be optional and only activated if requested by the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer[/FONT][/FONT]*; and 
d) these conditions must be communicated clearly to the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer[/FONT][/FONT]*."

My reading of that is that if the only thing the a/c is for is to service the mortgage, they cannot charge for it.


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## theoneill

Interesting, I am going to keep an eye on this. I don't really want to go through the hassle of changing my current account again.


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## serotoninsid

I contacted NIB.  They told me that they were "_doing away with transactional banking for customers with transactional accounts_".  However, I was told that they had not made a decision for people in my scenario i.e. using the 'easy' account_ exclusively_ for mortgage servicing.  I have rarely used it for anything else - have no atm cards with that account - and the only other transactions over the past few years involved a couple of others paying small sums into that account.

Apparently, they are obliged to give 2 months notice before any changes are made to accounts.


Based on the above, that makes me wonder whether some of you have also used your NIB account to some extent - in addition to servicing the mortgage - in order for you to have received these letters??? Is the account you hold actually the 'easy' account?


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## scallywag

I use the account as a normal current account. Maybe that's why I got the letter.

Originally I think I opened it just because I needed it for my mortgage, but then I switched all my banking to NIB. It's actually a much better bank in many ways (compared to BOI) - better online banking, I can transfer money to others without going through the whole paper verification thing.

I don't like being charged but all things considered, it may not be too bad. Although I don't like the transaction charges - they could start to add up. €5 per quarter is acceptable to me for a good banking service.


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## Asco

ang1170 said:


> Can anyone give definitive advice on whether introducing a charge on an a/c that was required to be set up to service a mortgage is allowed or not? It seems to me to be an effective change in the cost of the mortgage.
> 
> I just received notice today that I will no longer have free banking with NIB - something I've had with them in one form or another for many years.
> 
> My natural reaction is to close the a/c, but I can't do this because it is being used to service my mortgage with them.



If the account is being used solely as a service account that you were required to open to have your mortgage then they can not have charges on it as any associated charges on the mortgage must be quoted as part of the apr. in addition, it is against the code to have the purchase of another product as a condition of a mortgage approval. 

Nib will find themselves in a spot of bother if this is tested I would think.


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## serotoninsid

Asco said:


> Nib will find themselves in a spot of bother if this is tested I would think.


Presumably, this is the reason they have not gone there.  It appears from scallywags post below, he is getting the letter as not only is he using it to service the mortgage, he is using it on a transactional basis.

Maybe if folks were to move back exclusively to mortgage servicing use (and have their main current account elsewhere), then no charges will apply???


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## ang1170

serotoninsid said:


> I contacted NIB. They told me that they were "_doing away with transactional banking for customers with transactional accounts_".


 
What on earth does that mean? What's "transactional banking"????


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## Lightning

ang1170 said:


> this now looks to me to be in breach of the banking consumer protection code, which states: "A *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]regulated entity *[/FONT][/FONT]must not make the sale of a product or service contingent on the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer *[/FONT][/FONT]purchasing another product or service from the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]regulated entity*[/FONT][/FONT]. "
> 
> I've contacted them about this. It will be interesting to see what way this plays out....



Interesting post. 

Ulster and AIB do the exact same as NIB with some of their products. i.e. you must open one product with them in order to open another product.


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## ang1170

CiaranT said:


> Interesting post.
> 
> Ulster and AIB do the exact same as NIB with some of their products. i.e. you must open one product with them in order to open another product.


 
See my follow-up post on this: this is allowed, provided there's no charge associated with it:

"Where a *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]credit institution [/FONT][/FONT]*requires a *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer [/FONT][/FONT]*to open a feeder account in order to avail of another product, this shall not be prevented by Provision 3.17 where all of the following conditions are met: 
a) the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer [/FONT][/FONT]*must not be obliged to use the feeder account for purposes other than facilitating payments to the product concerned; 
b) *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]charges [/FONT][/FONT]*cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established; 
c) where additional facilities are available on the feeder account they must be optional and only activated if requested by the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer[/FONT][/FONT]*; and 
d) these conditions must be communicated clearly to the *[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]consumer[/FONT][/FONT]*."

The code can be viewed at: http://www.centralbank.ie/consumer/cpc/Pages/home1.aspx

It's worth noting that while the word "code" sounds like it's a guide to be followed rather than something mandatory, that in fact:

"The Central Bank of Ireland has the power to administer sanctions for a contravention of this Code, under Part IIIC of the Central Bank Act 1942.
The provisions of this Code are binding on *regulated entities* and must, at all times, be complied with when providing financial services."


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## DrMoriarty

Thanks for that, ang1170, very helpful.


serotoninsid said:


> Based on the above, that makes me wonder whether some of you have also used your NIB account to some extent - in addition to servicing the mortgage - in order for you to have received these letters??? Is the account you hold actually the 'easy' account?


I've just checked mine online and in their terms my account is described as a "Freebank Current Account". I haven't had any letter yet, although I use it for all sorts of things — chequebook, 2 ATM cards, multiple DDs and Standing Orders, occasional EFTs at home and abroad, etc. (very easy to set up/cancel payees online, unlike the nonsense BoI put you through...) And it's all been fee-free from the start, except for one or two occasions where I've inadvertently ended up overdrawn and have been hit for standard c/a quarterly fees, referral charges and interest — even when the overdraft was under 24 hours, which I grumbled about at the time but figured was my own fault.

I think personally I'll sit tight for the moment. Almost all of their communications to me are by email (by choice), so it's not as if the letter has gone astray.


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## serotoninsid

ang1170 said:


> What on earth does that mean? What's "transactional banking"????


Well, that's a direct quotation - but I would imagine it means all the things DrMoriarty listed...ie. chequebook, 2 ATM cards, multiple DDs and Standing Orders, occasional EFTs at home and abroad, etc.

I'm open to correction but I guess its an account that is actively used on a regular basis - with atm cards, etc, etc.


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## Auld-Yin

> ...if you decide our changes are not for you, you can of course choose to close your account by writing to your local branch.


 
When I read that it struck me as being a bit, "couldn't care less".
However; the charges - as far as I can see, virtually every line on my statement will be subject to a minimum charge of 25C. Not much per transaction but it adds up. 
Does anyone know if I could get my pension paid in on a monthly (or 4-weekly) basis rather than weekly?


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## ang1170

Auld-Yin said:


> However; the charges - as far as I can see, virtually every line on my statement will be subject to a minimum charge of 25C. Not much per transaction but it adds up.


 
They have another option available of paying a higher quarterly fee with zero transaction charges, so that would make more sense if you've a lot of transactions.

I'm still awaiting a response from them, by the way: apart from a brief acknowledgement, I haven't heard anything back in relation to a query on whether it is the case that people are now being forced to pay charges on an account just to service a mortgage.


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## Alex

i have an easy account. before that i had a personal access account. i changed over to easy only a few months ago in order to avail of the cheque book facility. now as i'm being forced to switch to a 24/7 account that doesn't have a cheque book facility i feel like i'm back where i started when i chose personal access. i did switch over the other day to easy plus as soon as i got the so called letter as i do need a cheque book but i'm curious... will they now automatically throw a gold credit card at me in order for changing to easy plus? my current cc is with aib. i have heard in the past that once you go for either easy plus or prestige you are simply given a cc as part of the package while with easy you are not as you have to apply separately with easy??? the change over to easy plus from easy took a matter of minutes. i was expecting to be on the phone for at least half an hour going through the usual application/upgrade stuff. odd.


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## ang1170

I evantually got a response from NIB.

I was told:

(1) They are defintely removing all free current accounts: all will have some form of standing charge and/or transaction charge

(2) They will remove the requirement to maintain a current account to service a mortgage held with them. That is, it will be OK to close the account.

I suspect they may well keep reasonably quiet about this second point, in the hope people will leave the accounts open (with charges) just to service the mortgage.

Personally, I'd want to see confirmation of this second point in writing from them before closing the account, as it is a breach of the mortgage agreement as originally drawn up.


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## Lightning

ang1170 - Thanks for clearing up these points. There is clearly a huge amount of customer confusion.


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## DingDing

What about if you don't have a cheque book anymore, will they refund the unused stamp duty on the cheques that you can't write.


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## Eeyore

DingDing said:


> What about if you don't have a cheque book anymore, will they refund the unused stamp duty on the cheques that you can't write.



You can use any remaining cheques but you won't get a new cheque book when they are all used.


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## niceoneted

Got my letter too this week. Would love to be able to close the account and not face the charges to service my tracker mortgage as per point two by ang1170. I think I would not risk the great tracker for the sake of about €20 plus the odd few euro for a few transactions, a year in fees. I'll just aim to not use the bank for anything other than service the mortgage. That's all I already really did.
On principle I would never open an account with charges but I think it's a small price to pay for a great tracker product that is not available on the market anymore.


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## DingDing

Eeyore said:


> You can use any remaining cheques but you won't get a new cheque book when they are all used.



GIves some date in May when I can no longer write cheques in the letter.


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## serotoninsid

niceoneted said:


> Got my letter too this week. Would love to be able to close the account and not face the charges to service my tracker mortgage as per point two by ang1170. I think I would not risk the great tracker for the sake of about €20 plus the odd few euro for a few transactions, a year in fees. I'll just aim to not use the bank for anything other than service the mortgage. That's all I already really did.
> On principle I would never open an account with charges but I think it's a small price to pay for a great tracker product that is not available on the market anymore.



See my post earlier in the thread.  I have an easy account _*purely*_ for mortgage servicing and received no such notification of fees being applied. Furthermore, I have been advised by a customer service rep for NIB - that no decision had been taken for customers in my bracket.  Therefore, you can still keep the account - provided you use it exclusively for mortgage servicing - and do your current account banking elsewhere..


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## DrMoriarty

ang1170 said:


> (2) They will remove the requirement to maintain a current account to service a mortgage held with them. That is, it will be OK to close the account.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Personally, I'd want to see confirmation of this second point in writing from them before closing the account, as it is a breach of the mortgage agreement as originally drawn up.


+1. And I would store this letter carefully, with the original mortgage documents.

Thanks again for posting back, ang1170.


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## ang1170

serotoninsid said:


> See my post earlier in the thread. I have an easy account _*purely*_ for mortgage servicing and received no such notification of fees being applied. Furthermore, I have been advised by a customer service rep for NIB - that no decision had been taken for customers in my bracket. Therefore, you can still keep the account - provided you use it exclusively for mortgage servicing - and do your current account banking elsewhere..


 
I'd say it's only a matter of time before they introduce charges for you, if what I was told is accurate.  It seems there are only two choices: keep the account and pay charges or close it. However, if you choose to close it, I would make sure to get a written statement from them that the relevant clause in the mortgage agreement about keeping an account with them no longer applies.

I’m not too sure what to do myself: I have my main current account with them, and have been a reasonably satisfied customer for many years (never paying charges). I know it’s been simplified, but it is still a hassle to move: something I’d do if I thought other free accounts were likely to continue, but I would not be at all surprised if they were all withdrawn over the next few months.

What are people’s views on this:

-      Are we likely to have any banks offering charge free current accounts in a few months’ time?
-      What are people’s experience of the other banks offerings: BoI looks to be a real pain, Ulster looks to be on the point of withdrawal. AIB looks the best option at the moment, but what’s it like in practice?


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## Lightning

ang1170 said:


> Are we likely to have any banks offering charge free current accounts in a few months’ time?



Currently, just 1 of the 5 full service banks in Ireland offer condition-free day-to-day banking to new customers. 

I would expect this to be zero in the very near future once Ulster Bank have updated systems to handle new fee structures. This might or might not take some time. 

I would expect free day-to-day banking, subject to conditions, to stay for some time. 



ang1170 said:


> What are people’s experience of the other banks offerings: BoI looks to be a real pain, Ulster looks to be on the point of withdrawal. AIB looks the best option at the moment, but what’s it like in practice?



AIB has the simplest conditions to comply with to get free banking. 

PTSB have easy-to-comply with conditions if you use your debit card a lot. 

When/if Ulster Bank remove free banking, they may continue to offer free banking to existing customers, like PTSB did, to avoid a mass exodus.


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## serotoninsid

ang1170 said:


> I'd say it's only a matter of time before they introduce charges for you, if what I was told is accurate.  It seems there are only two choices: keep the account and pay charges or close it. However, if you choose to close it, I would make sure to get a written statement from them that the relevant clause in the mortgage agreement about keeping an account with them no longer applies.



Yes, first thing I will be doing (should that transpire..) is emailed confirmation from them that my tracker stands even if I move away from their current account.  



ang1170 said:


> Are we likely to have any banks offering charge free current accounts in a few months’ time?


Quite possibly not - but there won't be any customer complacency as far as I'm concerned.  Moved from BOI to UB  to get mortgage.  Then 2 years later moved mortgage to NIB.  Moved current account to Halifax.  Moved current a/c back to UB when Halifax packed their bags.  I guess there won't be much to choose from - but I will move to whomever is offering the best deal if UB start charging fees.


----------



## ang1170

CiaranT said:


> AIB has the simplest conditions to comply with to get free banking.


 
That's what I thought. Can anyone comment on what they are like to deal with, though? Is their online banking any good? NIB scores pretty high on both these counts in my experience and it may just be worthwhile paying the charges, and sticking with them.


----------



## Lightning

ang1170 said:


> That's what I thought. Can anyone comment on what they are like to deal with, though? Is their online banking any good? NIB scores pretty high on both these counts in my experience and it may just be worthwhile paying the charges, and sticking with them.



AIB restrict online wire transfers after 3:30 PM every day.

What features matter to you with online banking ?


----------



## ang1170

CiaranT said:


> AIB restrict online wire transfers after 3:30 PM every day.
> 
> What features matter to you with online banking ?


 
Ease of use, ability to do things like set up a transfer easily, amount of information available (very complete for NIB).....

I used AIB for a business a/c a few years back, and my memory is of a distinctly clunky online experience, but presumably it's improved since then?


----------



## Lightning

Niall Brady in The Sunday Times reports:



> Unless customers request otherwise NIB will move you automatically to a 24/7 account.



Further confirmation of what has been generally reported here.


----------



## potnoodler

serotoninsid said:


> Quite possibly not - but there won't be any customer complacency as far as I'm concerned.  Moved from BOI to UB  to get mortgage.  Then 2 years later moved mortgage to NIB.  Moved current account to Halifax.  Moved current a/c back to UB when Halifax packed their bags.  I guess there won't be much to choose from - but I will move to whomever is offering the best deal if UB start charging fees.



sounds like the exact journey I took too except swap BOI with AIB, wish more people were as disloyal to their banks as it may make them think long and hard before charging people 25c to get paid into their non interest bearing account, 2 years ago Halifax was paying us


----------



## Auld-Yin

On the subject of loyalty:
from the first paragraph of the N.I.B. letter.


> ...we're different to other banks. We're delivering services to you in a way that gives you value for money and that rewards you for your loyalty to our bank. We believe that's fair to you and that it's also fair to us.


I get my ever decreasing state pension paid in and now I have to pay for that and also pay again (more than once) to take it out. 
Reward!!
Maybe they'll tell me later how they're rewarding me.
Okay it's not much and I could move to Ulster B., but how much longer can they avoid charges?


----------



## Lightning

Auld-Yin said:


> Okay it's not much and I could move to Ulster B., but how much longer can they avoid charges?



Nobody knows. 

You have said that you are retired? You can get free OAP banking with AIB and some other banks.


----------



## Auld-Yin

CiaranT said:


> You have said that you are retired? You can get free OAP banking with AIB and some other banks.


 Thanks for the pointer.  Hadn't been looking thoroughly enough.
AIB is out for historical personal reasons.  BOI 'Golden Years' looks good. 
There's a lot of reading in all this.


----------



## DingDing

Asco said:


> My understanding of the nib service account was that there could be no charges attached to it. This falls under the CCA where in taking a mortgage you can not be required to take additional products. The service account was purely an admin thing and therefore did not fall under the category of a product, if they are now requiring you open a current a/c with associated fees then surely this is a breach of the act?



Can anyone give me more details on this.  Possibly some links.


----------



## Platosidea

Disgraceful outfit NIB. Really low lifers now. They told me I had had to do a telephone interview to get the gold credit card which I understood was part of the Easy Plus account offering which was one of the options I HAD to select..... per their documentation. Well after being a customer for  more than 20 years and having my mortgage with them and never once haven fallen into arrears and having a good proportion of my salary paid to them directly, one would expect to be treated with a bit of respect. No chance. They spent half an hour interviewing me over the phone and made it clear that if I didn't answer all of their questions the account wouldn't be progressed. They wanted to know how much my car insurance costs, how much car tax I pay, how much I spend on food drink etc etc etc for half an hour. Not exactly the _happy clappy come do business with us types_. Then they INSISTED that I listen to them read out some legal stuff for what seemed like an age. They went too far when they wanted to know where the remainder of my salary was paid to ! Nasty outfit now and I will be doing minimum business with them from now on. Sad after all of the years I've been with them. Certainly wont be recommending them to anyone EVER !


----------



## ang1170

DingDing said:


> Can anyone give me more details on this. Possibly some links.


 
See my earlier post at http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1248922&postcount=44

I was told on the phone that they were dropping the requirement to have a current a/c with them if it's only to service a mortgage with them.

However: make sure you get this in writing before closing any a/c, as it is a breach of one of the terms of the mortgage agreement for their tracker mortgages.


----------



## 3dolls

Got my letter today...grr.
What are the pitfalls of getting rid of the current a/c? We write less than half a dozen cheques pa. Only the DD to the electricity provider on the current a/c, all others on the CC. Use mostly cash, some laser. 

I'm so angry about this, and 'all the banks are doing it' was never going to appease me, Mr Customer Service Operator, if you're reading this!


----------



## theresa1

You need to move - first choice would be Ulster Bank then BOI but you would need to feed 3,000 in qrtly and do 9 transactions even if they are only 1 cent for BOI.

PTSB option is as bad as AIB for free banking if not worse.


----------



## redandblack

Have been with NIB 15 years and am fed up with these new charges. Thinking of options to move. Ulster Bank and AIB have been mentioned. What about the EBS Money Manager Acccount? Is it a realistic alternative?


----------



## Lightning

redandblack said:


> Have been with NIB 15 years and am fed up with these new charges. Thinking of options to move. Ulster Bank and AIB have been mentioned. What about the EBS Money Manager Acccount? Is it a realistic alternative?



Ulster bank, currently, have zero transaction frees for their 'Step' current account. 

AIB have recently changed their free banking conditions.

See here for all the conditions for free banking. 

For the moment, Ulster is the best choice.


----------



## potnoodler

Just my options booklet in the post, seems to be a 1% overdraft setup fee and a €20 renewal fee , bit steep I think on top of 11% interest .
I am assuming this set up fee does not just apply to a new customer and renewal is pa or am I reading it wrong
Do hope ub don't follow suit


----------



## Lightning

The NIB overdraft fees vary depending on the current account type. 

All the NIB overdraft fees are very steep to say the least.


----------



## serotoninsid

serotoninsid said:


> See my post earlier in the thread.  I have an easy account _*purely*_ for mortgage servicing and received no such notification of fees being applied. Furthermore, I have been advised by a customer service rep for NIB - that no decision had been taken for customers in my bracket.  Therefore, you can still keep the account - provided you use it exclusively for mortgage servicing - and do your current account banking elsewhere..



I've now received notification that I will be taken off the 'easy' account and switched over to their 24/7 product.  

Are there others here who are using that account exclusively to fund an NIB mortgage?  That's the sole reason I setup this account.  I don't use it for any other purpose.

Can they still insist that people who use the account as it was a condition of receiving mortgage financing from NIB - and have only used it exclusively for this purpose - that they must maintain an account even though charges now apply?  Can I not just setup a direct debit from my U.B. current account?


----------



## 44brendan

No bank can insist on an account being maintained with them to service an existing mortgage. If you already have a UB account just advise NIB of change of DD payment and close the existing account. Unless the retention of this account was included in your loan offer letter (unlikely) they cannot insist on you retaining it.


----------



## potnoodler

Spoke to nib last week and they're putting in place facility accounts to service the mortgage these will be fee free, was weighing up options myself as also have a current account with ub but reckon they'll be charging in 6 months


----------



## serotoninsid

potnoodler said:


> Spoke to nib last week and they're putting in place facility accounts to service the mortgage these will be fee free, was weighing up options myself as also have a current account with ub but reckon they'll be charging in 6 months


That's good to hear - but the way they're going about it is a bit disingenuous.  It's clear that the account is being used exclusively for mortgage servicing.

I'm waiting on a  response from them.....


----------



## Wolverine

I too received this letter yesterday 10/04/2012(Letter dated 30/03/2012).
I have the ltv tracker also, and was informed at the time that I had to open the account to service the mortgage, but that it was free, so it didn't bother me. To save on hassle of transferring from my old bank to NIB, I moved all my banking to NIB on the understanding that it was free.

I too have a term in my mortgage agreement stating that a current account must be maintained throughout the lifetime of the mortgage.

Now, I see this as a change in the original agreement(although verbal), and I hate the idea of not having the freedom to move my current account while having to pay NIB for a fee based account that is a requirement of my mortgage.

Has anyone had confirmation in writing, that they will remove the term in the mortgage agreement?  

Also, would you trust an email, as compared to headed letter?

Has anyone who used the account for more than servicing the LTV mortgage, managed to have this clause removed ?


----------



## DMcL1971

There is a FAQ page relating to their current account migration on their website at [broken link removed]#

Where it says:

*I only use my account to pay my mortgage/personal loan. Will I still move to 24/7 ?*
In this instance your account will migrate to a similar non-fee paying account. If however, you have a chequebook or card attached to your account you will move to 24/7.


----------



## serotoninsid

DMcL1971 said:


> There is a FAQ page...where it says:
> 
> *I only use my account to pay my mortgage/personal loan. Will I still move to 24/7 ?*
> In this instance your account will migrate to a similar non-fee paying account. If however, you have a chequebook or card attached to your account you will move to 24/7.


Ok, that's good to know.  I was contacted this morning by someone from NIB.  They confirmed that no charges would be applied.  Furthermore, they said that there was nothing stopping me in setting up a direct debit from my UB current account.


I've asked for this in writing via email (just for 100% coverage) - as it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep this other NIB a/c.

One drawback he did point my attention to is the fact that I will have to get the interest relief updated and transferred on to the new account.


----------



## serotoninsid

serotoninsid said:


> Furthermore, they[NIB] said that there was nothing stopping me in setting up a direct debit from my UB current account.


I asked for this to be confirmed in writing - and the outcome of that is that the above is NOT the case.  I was directed to the T&C's of my mortgage agreement which necessitates the maintenance of an NIB current a/c to service the mortgage.  

Whilst I was told that no charges would apply so long as I continue to use the feeder a/c solely for the purposes of maintaining mortgage repayments, I wasn't told that the account was changing to a separate facility account as such (although perhaps that was what was intended? ....I guess it doesn't matter either way)....just that it will be 'marked' as a servicing a/c.


----------



## ronaldo

My AIB account was free for years but I just noticed two quarterly charges there now when I checked my statements - one for €11.90 and one for €12.15.

I also have an NIB account that's used for two things - the servicing of my LTV mortgage and my annual life insurance premium.

The majority of my dealings is with a Northern Irish bank as I work and get paid in the North. 

I know Ulster Banks product is free but, to avoid the hassle of setting up an account which will, presumably, only remain free for a brief period of time, I'm considering just closing my AIB account and moving all my banking to NIB.

This will avoid any worries about potentially losing my LTV mortgage. I'm assumming that NIB won't switch me to the free servicing account since I have an annual direct debit coming from it.

My thoughts are, within the next few months, I'll end up paying similar 'per-transaction' charges no matter where I bank so I might as well stick with NIB who *may* work out more expensive by €20 per year. 

Do you see any problems with this?


----------



## K-Man

serotoninsid said:


> I asked for this to be confirmed in writing - and the outcome of that is that the above is NOT the case. I was directed to the T&C's of my mortgage agreement which necessitates the maintenance of an NIB current a/c to service the mortgage.
> 
> Whilst I was told that no charges would apply so long as I continue to use the feeder a/c solely for the purposes of maintaining mortgage repayments, I wasn't told that the account was changing to a separate facility account as such (although perhaps that was what was intended? ....I guess it doesn't matter either way)....just that it will be 'marked' as a servicing a/c.


 
SerotoninSid - I am in the same situation as you, I use the account for servicing mortgages only. I threw out the ATM cards that I received. Based upon your post I am now expecting that they will not charge me fees as the account is a servicing account only.

Let us know if either a) you hear otherwise or b) see any charges coming through.

Cheers


----------



## serotoninsid

K-Man said:


> SerotoninSid - I am in the same situation as you, I use the account for servicing mortgages only. I threw out the ATM cards that I received. Based upon your post I am now expecting that they will not charge me fees as the account is a servicing account only.


Maybe no harm to get them to clarify this for you - and assign it as a servicing a/c only.  In my case, I don't expect to hear any different - as I've had this confirmed in writing - so only possible deviation is an error on their part in the event that they applied fees.


----------



## Yakuza

I've not heard anything from NIB in relation to my Easy account - perhaps as I have a nominee stock account (which they added fees to last year) they reckon they're getting enough out of me?


----------



## BarrenMuffet

Same here. Have an Easy for settlement of custody account, sales/purchases and corporate actions and nothing else. Pay €40 a year for the custody account.


----------



## Lightning

It seems that NIB are gradually informing customers about the current account changes. 

Meanwhile, NIB/Danske have announced today that they are . Death by a 1,000 cuts?


----------



## Wolverine

When I signed my mortgage agreement, I was also given a 2 page "Conditions for NIB LTV mortgages".  

It states in 3(a), "You must maintain, for the duration of your loan, on of our Easy, EasyPlus, or Prestige Packages. If such package is not maintained by you we reserve the right to convert your LTV rate to out then applicable home loan rate(fixed or Var as the case may be); and..."

This is different from the prementioned morgage agreement clause(section 6), in that it specifically mentions the package names. Now that Easy, EasyPlus or Prestige Packages will no longer exist, is it fair to argue that the clause is void due to their actions?

Has anyone who uses the current acc for day-to-day banking (soon to be charged for the service), been able to hand back cards etc, and have their account set back to a feeless "Service Type" account, and freely move to another bank for free banking, whilst not affecting their LTV tracker ?


----------



## DrMoriarty

I'm working on it.

I wrote in late March and asked them either to confirm that the requirement in our Loan agreement was no longer operative or, failing that, to convert my Freebank account to a fee-free "facility" account, to be used solely for the purposes of maintaining mortgage repayments. I must say I was quite surprised by the slightly gung-ho tone of the initial response I got last week from the Branch Manager. Thanks to the references supplied earlier in this thread by ang1170, I've now given him a brief lesson in the Consumer Credit Act, 1995, Part IX, art. 127.—(1) “Prohibition on linking of services”, the Banking Consumer Protection Code and the Consumer Protection Code, 2012, which provides a bit more detail, cf. [broken link removed], and particularly Art. 3.18:


> Where a credit institution requires a consumer to open a feeder account in order to avail of another product, this shall not be prevented by Provision 3.17 where all of the following conditions are met:
> a) the consumer must not be obliged to use the feeder account for purposes other than facilitating payments to the product concerned;
> b) charges cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established;
> c) where additional facilities are available on the feeder account they must be optional and only activated if requested by the consumer; and
> d) these conditions must be communicated clearly to the consumer.


 
I'll keep y'all posted. 

_[Edit: Wolverine, the EasyPlus and Prestige Packages do still exist, but their fee structures are quite uncompetitive. As regards the discrepancy you refer to between the actual Loan Agreement and the additional 2-page list of conditions, we were also asked to sign up to both wordings in December 2008, when we came off a three-year fixed rate period and (luckily) were allowed to revert to our LTV ECB tracker rate.]_


----------



## pilotsnipes

Folks, just catching up on all of this now. Many thanks for all the posts.

I'm in the position of only using the NIB easy account to service my mortgage payments, I don't think I've ever taken money out of the account (no ATM or Cheque book) in the past 8 years.

Very interested to hear how @DrMoriarty gets on as I think I will doing exactly the same thing.


----------



## ronaldo

Any definitive answers on this yet?

I do very little transactions and own both an AIB and an NIB Current Account.

NIB will be charging €20 per year + transaction fees which, for me, will be minimal - perhaps 2 automated/1 manual transactions per month at a cost of €9.60 for the year. *NIB: €29.60 per year*

AIB will be charging €4.50 per quarter + transaction fees which, for the above transactions would be €8.40. *AIB: €26.40 per year*


I could open a PAYG *BOI* account for which the above transactions would cost *€10.08* per year or an *Ulster Bank* account which is *free*, but for how long?

At the moment, it's looking like the AIB account is DEFINITELY worth closing.
I don't see Ulster Bank staying free much longer - possibly a few months to get a load of disgruntled AIB/NIB customers signed up
BOI is pretty tempting but, for the value of about €16.32 per year, it might be handier to just go with NIB so that my mortgage and current account are in the same place
*The free banking for keeping a minimum balance isn't worth it because you'd get at lease €60 by putting that balance in a good instant access savings account.*


----------



## Omega

Yakuza said:


> I've not heard anything from NIB in relation to my Easy account - perhaps as I have a nominee stock account (which they added fees to last year) they reckon they're getting enough out of me?


I thought that as well but now I too have received the dreaded letter.....


----------



## DrMoriarty

I'd suggest you move quickly if you don't want to be caught for fees when the switchover occurs on 1st June. I initially wrote to contest the switch from our Freebank account in late March; it took a fortnight for the matter to be referred to my local branch manager, whose response was unsatisfactory. In my reply to his letter, on April 23rd, I repeated our request that NIB either remove the requirement to maintain a current account to service our mortgage, or convert our Freebank account to a facility account, in either case without prejudice to the maintenance of our LTV ECB Tracker rate. I asked him either to confirm one of these solutions or to escalate it to a formal complaint, and it took another nine days for their complaints department to acknowledge receipt and promise to respond "within 20 days" (bringing us up to 29th May, just before the new fees kick in). In the meantime I've started the process of opening an alternative account (with BoI).


----------



## Lightning

ronaldo said:


> I could open a PAYG *BOI* account for which the above transactions would cost *€10.08* per year



or go with a BoI ´Flat Fee' account and comply with the below conditions, which almost anyone can do by moving money around, and get free banking. 



> Free if you comply with the below conditions:
> (1) Make at last 9 debits online/via telephone banking each 'BoI billing quarter'. 9 transactions does not include standing orders and direct debits when calculating a number of transactions.
> AND
> (2) Lodge at least €3,000 to the account during the 'BoI billing quarter'. The 2012 billing quarter dates are here.


----------



## marathonic

CiaranT said:


> or go with a BoI ´Flat Fee' account and comply with the below conditions, which almost anyone can do by moving money around, and get free banking.


 
That would work for most people. However, I'm living in the South/working in the North. My money is paid in sterling and the vast majority of it stays in sterling - I wouldn't have €3,000 to lodge during the quarter.

True, I could lodge and withdraw €500 six times but that would add to the hassle of making the 9 online transactions per quarter - all for a saving of about €7.50 in my case.

To be honest, I'm just going to stick with the NIB 24/7 account. That way, I'll have ABSOLUTE certainty that they'll be unable to wiggle out of my tracker mortgage deal. 

At the end of the day, the Current Account service will be costing me less than the annual government stamp duty on a credit card I've just cancelled.

I think the reality is that banks SHOULD be charging for this service but, in not charging in the past, have raised consumers expectations. True, a lot of people will say "but I'm providing them with my money" but another way to look at it is that they are providing secure storage of your money - similar to how you'd pay a company to provide safe storage of investment gold/silver/etc.

Most on this site would probably agree with the above but the point of this site is to help people in securing the best deal available on the market which, for now, is free banking.


----------



## Alex

i had easy but upgraded to easy plus due to the above changes. i didn't want a 24/7 account once i heard about it and that is why i upgraded. when i had easy i had a standard debit card but according to the nib website if you have easy plus or higher you can have a premium debit card. what is a premium nib debit card anyway? i did ring them but they told me there is no difference and that my card will not be changed. why say standard debit card for 24/7 and premium debit card for easy plus/prestige??? there must be a difference.


----------



## Lightning

marathonic said:


> I think the reality is that banks SHOULD be charging for this service



Again, the reality is also that banks should pay customer interest on positive balances on their current account. 

The reality is also that banks make a fortune out of non-EUR transactions such as ATM withdrawals abroad. 

Charging (all aspects) and interest need to be spoken about in tandem, not in isolation.


----------



## OneWayBet

Got a letter from NIB today saying that my Easy account was being moved to a Loan Servicing account with no fees. Seems like a fair solution to me. I have the option of contacting them if I want to keep current account facilities but otherwise I will no longer be able to withdraw funds from the account as it will only exist to fund the mortgage.


----------



## trustno1

As an aside, for those who qualify, have you received the new rate of Mortgage Interest Relief - mine has not hit yet even though I was told it would be April.  They have yet to respond to my e-mail on Tuesday.


----------



## trustno1

Yorky - I rang NIB today as I also received a letter advising me of the transfer of my account to a loan servicing account. In relation to my Mortgage Interest Relief payment I was told that this could be paid to my UB current account via standing order or by calling NIB and they would action it over the phone at no cost. I have asked for this in writing. I pointed out that NIB make a song and dance in their letter about all of their investment in technology but yet the phone call solution proposed in a backward step. The guy I spoke to agreed.


----------



## serotoninsid

trustno1 said:


> I rang NIB today as I also received a letter advising me of the transfer of my account to a loan servicing account. In relation to my Mortgage Interest Relief payment I was told that this could be paid to my UB current account via standing order or by calling NIB and they would action it over the phone at no cost. I have asked for this in writing. I pointed out that NIB make a song and dance in their letter about all of their investment in technology but yet the phone call solution proposed in a backward step. The guy I spoke to agreed.


Yes, do get it in writing as verbal holds no value.  I went this route and the response suddenly changed completely.


----------



## nansus

*NIB Current A/C*

I have both a current A/C and custody account with NIB.
I contacted them to close both.
 As custody account only holds (useless untradeable) Anglo shares.
they say they cannot close it (it already costs €40 p/a),
and, because if I have a custody account I must have a current account also.
So an element of blackmail exists.


----------



## ashambles

> I have both a current A/C and custody account with NIB.
> I contacted them to close both.
> As custody account only holds (useless untradeable) Anglo share


 They should provide some way of writing off those shares I’d have hoped – I think Revenue is allowing people to treat Anglo shares as complete losses for CGT purposes. 

  But I don’t think you need a current account to support that custody account, I’ve not been really following what NIB are doing but just this week got a mail saying they’re going to convert my current account to a no charge custody cash account (not sure if that’s the exact name for it). 

  I’ve only ever used that current account to feed an esaver account and my custody account. At the moment I’m still happy enough with their service, 40 euro is a reasonable charge for the custody account (as long as you've some shares there a bit more valuable than anglo ones).


----------



## Lightning

ashambles said:


> They should provide some way of writing off those shares I’d have hoped



Exactly. Most banks provide a way to destroy share certificates in illiquid stocks  if one provides a written instruction.


----------



## Alex

thanks to all those that responded. question ignored here just like with nib. i should have known better yeah.


----------



## twofor1

nansus said:


> As custody account only holds (useless untradeable) Anglo shares.
> they say they cannot close it (it already costs €40 p/a),


 
My custody a/c was free as part of my package and at that stage only had Anglo shares, When NIB introduced €40 annual charge I told them to close it, they replied my Anglo shares were illiquid and have nominal value only, to close I would have to instruct them to either remove this holding or transfer them to another broker.

A form was enclosed for this purpose, I selected the option of permanently removing and transferring all rights associated with these shares to NIB.

That was May last year.


----------



## Lightning

Alex said:


> thanks to all those that responded. question ignored here just like with nib. i should have known better yeah.



A comparison of the NIB credit cards is here: 
[broken link removed]


----------



## nansus

twofor1 said:


> My custody a/c was free as part of my package and at that stage only had Anglo shares, When NIB introduced €40 annual charge I told them to close it, they replied my Anglo shares were illiquid and have nominal value only, to close I would have to instruct them to either remove this holding or transfer them to another broker.
> 
> A form was enclosed for this purpose, I selected the option of permanently removing and transferring all rights associated with these shares to NIB.
> 
> That was May last year.



Thanks for that info.
I will follow  up that route.


----------



## kimmage

Alex said:


> why say standard debit card for 24/7 and premium debit card for easy plus/prestige??? there must be a difference.



There is a slight difference, well cosmetic one at least. The premium card has a sort of gloss or glitter if you look close enough, the standard one doesn't. 

I just pulled two out and looked at them because I wasn't aware of the 'difference' Unless like me you examine them then the difference wouldn't be noticed.

In terms of functionality, they're the same. 

I know Northern Bank cards are not embossed - they have the information printed in white 'ink' across the face of the card.  When I say embossed I mean letters not punched out, the card is flat if you get me/ I am making sense!


----------



## polaris

I just rang them about this as I only use my Easy account just to service my mortgage.

They will convert the Easy account to a loan servicing account (with no fees). No effect on the terms & conditions of the mortgage.


----------



## deeobrien

I have a LTV mortgage and I only use my Easy Account to service that mortgage. I don't have any cards/cheque book on the account.  I got a letter saying my account would switch over to a fee paying 24/7 account.  I sent them a message via ebanking (could not get through over the phone) and I received a reply saying my request had been passed on to the Package Application Unit and that they would be in touch.   That was the 11th April and I haven't heard anything yet. 

I notice today their website wording seems to be a bit different:

*I only use my account to pay my mortgage/personal loan. Will I still move to 24/7 ?
*In this instance your account will migrate to a similar non-fee paying account. If however, you have a chequebook or card attached to your account you will move to 24/7. Alternatively you may close your account and service your loan by a direct debit from another account.
*(NB. If your homeloan is currently on an LTV mortgage rate, as part of your terms and conditions you will be required to migrate to 24/7 or one of our other account packages).*

I didn't think they could force you to take a product in order to sell another product.  I didn't mind doing it at the time as there was no additional cost involved.    However if they are now charging its a very different story.

Deirdre


----------



## Sherman

I had a call from them yesterday querying which package I would be taking. I said I didn't think they could unilaterally move me from a free account (Easy) to a fee paying one (24/7). Like many posters here I only use the account for servicing my LTV tracker mortgage - one standing order in p/m, one direct debit out p/m. The NIB rep sounded very uncertain when I challenged her and couldn't get off the phone quick enough, saying she needed to check my documentation which she didn't have in the branch. I'll wait and see.


----------



## Butter

Wolverine said:


> When I signed my mortgage agreement, I was also given a 2 page "Conditions for NIB LTV mortgages".
> 
> It states in 3(a), "You must maintain, for the duration of your loan, on of our Easy, EasyPlus, or Prestige Packages. If such package is not maintained by you we reserve the right to convert your LTV rate to out then applicable home loan rate(fixed or Var as the case may be); and..."
> 
> This is different from the prementioned morgage agreement clause(section 6), in that it specifically mentions the package names. Now that Easy, EasyPlus or Prestige Packages will no longer exist, is it fair to argue that the clause is void due to their actions?
> 
> Has anyone who uses the current acc for day-to-day banking (soon to be charged for the service), been able to hand back cards etc, and have their account set back to a feeless "Service Type" account, and freely move to another bank for free banking, whilst not affecting their LTV tracker ?


 

I have an LTV Tracker with NIB and at the time I took it out I was told that I had to take the EasyPlus a/c for which I have paid fees of approx €18 a quarter for the last 8 years.  Now if my understanding of some of the info in this thread is correct - NIB should not have linked the taking of that fee-based account to the mortgage?  I use the account to pay the mortgage and to transfer payment to my NIB mastercard and that is it.
It would be great if I could close that account and not pay fees but obviously i have the same clause as wolverine so would need to be sure that closing the account would not affect my tracker t&cs.

I have previous experience of the wily nature of NIB's tactics and would do nothing without something in writing on headed paper.  I previously took a case against them to the Financial Ombudsman about an investment mortgage, which I won, but I can tell you that NIB managed to win in the end by increasing their home loan variable rate mortgages to the higher level that was being applied to their investmest mortgages.  I have a very low opinion of how NIB treats it's customers.

I would be very interested in hearing how you get on Dr Moriarty?  I also wonder if NIB could be liable to return the fees that they have charged people on accounts taken out purely to service mortgages???


----------



## DrMoriarty

Butter said:


> I would be very interested in hearing how you get on Dr Moriarty?


Well, it’s taken a couple of months and gone ‘around the houses’, from the Branch Manager to the complaints department and now, for some strange reason, to the Head of Sales and Marketing, in whose name we’ve received unsigned letters (duplicates to each of us, with my wife’s name misspelt) addressing us by our first names and full of the kind of cheery marketing pap you’d expect about the great services NIB provides and the way they like to reward their loyal customers. 

On the substantive issue, it says:





> Following this review, you have three options available to you:
> *1. Daily Banking Packages* - Given your requirement for a daily banking package you can continue to maintain your 24/7 package for a fixed quarterly fee of €5. Alternatively you may decide that an Easy Plus or Prestige package better suits your needs, where for a fixed quarterly maintenance fee, these packages also offer free transaction banking and some excellent additional benefits such as preferential interest rates and discounts on other banking services. The leaflet enclosed will explain each package in further detail.
> *2. Servicing Account *- A National Irish Bank Servicing Account is available for customers who choose to maintain the account purely for servicing their mortgage. No fees apply to this account. Therefore you could decide to move all your other banking transactions to an alternative account and maintain a Servicing Account purely for your mortgage payments.
> *3. Direct Debit* - You also have the option to close the account(s) mentioned above and complete the Direct Debit form enclosed which will allow you to service your mortgage from an account with another bank. *Choosing this option will have no effect on the LTV rate on your loan and no fees will apply* _[their emphasis]_.



I’ve replied indicating that option 1 is of no interest to us, since in the meantime we have already transferred all of our transactional banking to another bank. Our Freebank account is therefore now effectively functioning as a servicing account along the lines described in option no. 2. We've again stressed that we do not wish to close this Freebank account until such time as the requirement to keep it open is no longer a part of the terms and conditions of our mortgage.

On the face of it, option no. 3 seems to indicate that NIB is prepared to remove this requirement (especially as they helpfully enclose two DD mandate forms). Indeed, the cynical part of me is inclined to see this as a deliberate trap for the unwary, who might reasonably assume from NIB's bolding of the 'no effect on the LTV rate' phrase that it was OK now to close their current account without jeopardising the tracker rate on their mortgage. In reality, of course, this rather vague wording, in an _unsigned _letter from the Head of Sales and Marketing is nothing like adequate confirmation for this purpose. The reference to ‘the LTV rate on [our] loan’ omits the point that ours is a tracker mortgage guaranteed to remain for the life of the loan at no more than the prevailing ECB rate plus 0.5%. The fact that the margin over the ECB rate is determined by our LTV is of far less significance.

I’ve therefore asked once again that, before closing our Freebank account, NIB provide us with written confirmation, duly signed and authorised, stating that to do so will have no effect upon the status of our ECB LTV tracker mortgage — presumably the simplest way to do this would be to provide a signed letter from the Branch Manager or from the Head of the Mortgages department confirming that the relevant clause in our Loan Agreement document is no longer operative. If they won't do that then they can (rather pointlessly) require us to keep a facility account open for as long as they wish; I'll simply feed it from our new BoI current account instead of paying into the mortgage account directly.

I may still refer the matter to the Financial Services Ombudsman, just to keep them working a bit longer. The gobsheens have wasted enough of _my _time over this...


----------



## ang1170

Fair play to you on this. I couldn't agree more: you would need an explicit signed statement from them that establishes the relevant clause in the mortgage agreement no longer applies. I certainly wouldn't accept anything less than a signed letter.

For now, I'm sticking with them, as I do all of my banking with NIB. I plan to leave it a few months for the dust to settle and then move. I was just about to move to AIB for their free banking and look what happened there! Last thing I want is the bother of moving to UB only to have them do the same. If it's still in place in 6 month's time, it looks to be the best option to move to them, but like you I'd choose to retain a (free) servicing account at NIB for the mortgage.


----------



## Butter

DrMoriarty said:


> Well, it’s taken a couple of months and gone ‘around the houses’, from the Branch Manager to the complaints department and now, for some strange reason, to the Head of Sales and Marketing, in whose name we’ve received unsigned letters (duplicates to each of us, with my wife’s name misspelt) addressing us by our first names and full of the kind of cheery marketing pap you’d expect about the great services NIB provides and the way they like to reward their loyal customers.
> 
> On the substantive issue, it says:
> 
> I’ve replied indicating that option 1 is of no interest to us, since in the meantime we have already transferred all of our transactional banking to another bank. Our Freebank account is therefore now effectively functioning as a servicing account along the lines described in option no. 2. We've again stressed that we do not wish to close this Freebank account until such time as the requirement to keep it open is no longer a part of the terms and conditions of our mortgage.
> 
> On the face of it, option no. 3 seems to indicate that NIB is prepared to remove this requirement (especially as they helpfully enclose two DD mandate forms). Indeed, the cynical part of me is inclined to see this as a deliberate trap for the unwary, who might reasonably assume from NIB's bolding of the 'no effect on the LTV rate' phrase that it was OK now to close their current account without jeopardising the tracker rate on their mortgage. In reality, of course, this rather vague wording, in an _unsigned _letter from the Head of Sales and Marketing is nothing like adequate confirmation for this purpose. The reference to ‘the LTV rate on [our] loan’ omits the point that ours is a tracker mortgage guaranteed to remain for the life of the loan at no more than the prevailing ECB rate plus 0.5%. The fact that the margin over the ECB rate is determined by our LTV is of far less significance.
> 
> I’ve therefore asked once again that, before closing our Freebank account, NIB provide us with written confirmation, duly signed and authorised, stating that to do so will have no effect upon the status of our ECB LTV tracker mortgage — presumably the simplest way to do this would be to provide a signed letter from the Branch Manager or from the Head of the Mortgages department confirming that the relevant clause in our Loan Agreement document is no longer operative. If they won't do that then they can (rather pointlessly) require us to keep a facility account open for as long as they wish; I'll simply feed it from our new BoI current account instead of paying into the mortgage account directly.
> 
> I may still refer the matter to the Financial Services Ombudsman, just to keep them working a bit longer. The gobsheens have wasted enough of _my _time over this...


 
Nothing about your reply from NIB surprises me Dr Moriarty.  I would not be closing any bank account to do with my tracker mortgage on the basis of that unsigned letter! After my previous experience with NIB I would check & double-check everything.  
I am tempted to start the ball rolling on this myself to see if I can escape paying €76 a year for the next 17 years for the privilege of paying my mortgage through their Easy plus account.  I just don't know if I can face another tedious long-drawn out battle with them again.


----------



## DrMoriarty

Cheers, Butter. I agree that it's tedious, but at least I've now had their Final Response Letter (the capitals add great _gravitas_, don't they!) and have therefore indicated to the Branch Manager and the Head of Sales and Marketing that if this letter isn't forthcoming within a reasonable amount of time, without further correspondence from my side, the file is going to the Financial Services Ombudsman.

I'll be damned if they're getting even €26 a year (the cost of a 24/7 account with one monthly transaction) from me for the next 17 years...


----------



## Sherman

They confirmed to me today that my Easy account would become an account servicing account from 1 June and that this would have no fees. When asked for confirmation, they also confirmed that my LTV tracker mortgage would be unaffected by the change. Apparently I'll be getting a letter within the next week confirming this.


----------



## bluckaneyr

Based on the number of transactions in recent quarters, I calculated I  was looking at about 140 to 150 euro per annum for my current account,  if I stayed on the 24/7 package. I must point out that I didn't have the  complication of a mortgage to deal with.
Initially I was so worked up I considered switching to either AIB or  BoI, leaving the required amount on deposit with them for "free"  banking.
However, because I've had 36 smooth years with NIB, I decided that I  should first go to my branch (SCR, Dublin 8) to explore the best NIB  option before going elsewhere.
The result - I'm staying with NIB.
Why?
I have a medium sized sum in an e-Saver account. 
I found that by opting for the 125 euro Prestige package, that sum would earn 3.5%, up from 2% at present.
I also found that money in my current account would earn 1% and at times I might have a fair amount there, depending on flow.
Thirdly having the Prestige Mastercard entitled my wife and I to good free travel insurance, worth about 65 euro a year. (more than half the cost of the Prestige package straight away!!!)
I also had a flexible access account previously, which earned 1%. With the Prestige version of that I will now earn 1.5%
All of the above plus my long-time relationship with NIB, and the convenience factor, led me to stay with NIB. 

Instead of focussing on "free" banking, I opted for getting the best  return for my payment instead. Rather than paying for each transaction  under the 24/7 option, I now pay 125 over the year, have no charge per  transaction and improved terms in other areas that more than compensate.
The 24/7 was the worst option. The Easy Plus was better but with my  combination of requirements, the Prestige suited me best. I will come  out better off by about 500 euro in fact because of the better return on  my Prestige Fixed Term account, the small interest from the current and  holding accounts and I won't be spending 65 euro on travel insurance.  Now I know you may say that I could have got the better deposit rate  elsewhere too, maybe, but for convenience, continuity and their ebanking  system, NIB was more appealing. And I don't have to be worrying about having a required sum in my current account every day!
If nothing else, I reviewed a lot of my arrangements!


----------



## gunnerfitzy

bluckaneyr said:


> ...Instead of focussing on "free" banking, I opted for getting the best  return for my payment instead...



An excellent viewpoint to take and one that more should focus on when deciding on whom to bank with and what product(s) to take. 

The focus of many has been on keeping their banking free even though free banking is becoming harder and harder to maintain. The extra benefit accounts at Ulster Bank and NIB (as far as I know these are the only two banks with these type of accounts) should be considered by all who are contemplating their banking options and they may find a product that provides value for money.


----------



## pilotsnipes

Got the letter confirming that my account will be changed to a servicing account only for my mortgage without any fees.

I can only surmise that this is a direct result of people on this forum (and others) applying some pressure. Well done.

Here's a scan of the letter (Remove the excess spaces to get to the link) : 
www . mediafire . com /?ey33li7u3naw259


----------



## serotoninsid

bluckaneyr said:


> Now I know you may say that I could have got the better deposit rate  elsewhere too, maybe, but for convenience, continuity and their ebanking  system, NIB was more appealing.


This has to be taken in isolation - but you know that already.  For 'convenience' - please replace with 'customer lethargy'.  



bluckaneyr said:


> Instead of focussing on "free" banking, I opted for getting the best return for my payment instead.


But you didn't - as outlined above.


bluckaneyr said:


> I to good free travel insurance, worth about 65 euro a year. (more than half the cost of the Prestige package straight away!!!)


Sorry - but I'm a natural skeptic when it comes to this sort of thing.  Where has the valuation of €65 come from?  I checked their website and they are very short on detail as to what is involved with this travel insurance cover.

With this being your first post - and given the sunny disposition you seem to present toward the nib offering, can you declare if you have any vested interest in what you have posted?


For many on this thread, the issue that they had was that NIB had coerced them into opening a current account in order to extend them access to a mortgage product.  The addition of fees has brought the ethics and legalities of this to the fore.  However, it looks like NIB have been adjusting their position as they go on this one.  I just got a letter through confirming in writing that I would be moved to a mortgage servicing account rather than their 24/7 account.




pilotsnipes said:


> Got the letter confirming that my account will be changed to a servicing account only for my mortgage without any fees....Here's a scan of the letter...


Yes, that's exactly the same as what I received this morning.


pilotsnipes said:


> I can only surmise that this is a direct result of people on this forum (and others) applying some pressure. Well done.


No doubt in my mind on this either.  They're obviously avid AAM readers...


----------



## bluckaneyr

serotoninsid said:


> This has to be taken in isolation - but you know that already.  For 'convenience' - please replace with 'customer lethargy'.
> 
> I chose the word "convenience" because it is the most accurate word to sum up my position.
> You are telling me to replace it with the more pejorative "customer lethargy". You have no basis for presuming I'm lethargic. It's my first posting her so let me compose my own postings, just as you have been composing yours.
> And from that, don't presume you know my position on the issues raised here either. Read and look at the totality before making conclusions.
> 
> 
> But you didn't - as outlined above.
> Sorry - but I'm a natural skeptic when it comes to this sort of thing.  Where has the valuation of €65 come from?  I checked their website and they are very short on detail as to what is involved with this travel insurance cover.
> 
> 
> So you have been researching. Rather than argue with you on valuation, just put YOUR OWN valuation on the cover. Then factor it into YOUR figures for YOUR situation, Your situation seems different to mine, I've NIB savings, no mortgage, etc. I said all that in my 1st posting, anyhow. We don't both have to reach the same conclusions you know and I'm not making any recommendation to anyone.
> 
> With this being your first post - and given the sunny disposition you seem to present toward the nib offering, can you declare if you have any vested interest in what you have posted?
> 
> You admit to being sceptical by nature and a little scepticism often goes a long way.
> I assure you my disposition towards NIB was a lot more "frost" than "sun" when I heard of the loss of my free-banking facility after 36 years with them, as I indicated in my posting. Had Ulster Bank not hedged my questions about the future of their free-banking option, I'd now be with Ulster. Again, as I said in my posting, I looked into all the alternative options available to me and saw nothing that fitted my situation better. Every situation is unique, I'm not prescribing any course of action for others.
> 
> For the record, I have no connection with any bank whatever, other than as a customer. Neither does any of my family. I have banked with NIB since 1976 but have relationships with other institutions too. I've closed accounts a few times over the years when issues arose, so I'm not all sun, I assure you. And NIB would know that too!
> 
> 
> 
> For many on this thread, the issue that they had was that NIB had coerced them into opening a current account in order to extend them access to a mortgage product.
> 
> That is totally unacceptable on NIB's part. Because I read this forum before visiting the bank yesterday, I actually brought up this issue with the staff member I was dealing with. He admitted staff were at sea on the issue when they first heard about it but now it would have to be properly resolved.
> Clearly the impressive work done by members here has been very effective.


----------



## bluckaneyr

Sorry. Being a new member, I've accidentally double posted my message. 
I've also somehow failed to separate quotes from serotoninsid;1267372] from my own comments
Gabh le mo leithscéal.


----------



## serotoninsid

bluckaneyr said:


> I chose the word "convenience" because it is the most accurate word to sum up my position.  You are telling me to replace it with the more pejorative "customer lethargy". You have no basis for presuming I'm lethargic.


Ok, I agree - I should not presume that _you_ are lethargic.  In fact, that was not the intention.  The option was presented to others as 'convenient'.  I would label that _in general_ as akin to customer lethargy.  The lack of will for consumers to switch away from their current banking provider is well known.


bluckaneyr said:


> So you have been researching. Rather than argue with you on valuation, just put YOUR OWN valuation on the cover. Then factor it into YOUR figures for YOUR situation, Your situation seems different to mine, I've NIB savings, no mortgage, etc. I said all that in my 1st posting, anyhow. We don't both have to reach the same conclusions you know and I'm not making any recommendation to anyone.


Again, it's not a personal criticism.  Furthermore, it's not a question specific to you or to me.  You intimated to all readers that it had a value of €65.  As outlined, I am skeptical of these types of products - as so much falls within the small print.  For that reason, I briefly checked it out on their website and they certainly don't go into any detail on it there....in which case, it's impossible to determine what the nature of that cover is.


bluckaneyr said:


> For the record, I have no connection with any bank whatever, other than as a customer.


Ok, no worries.  That's good enough for me.  However, I'm sure you can appreciate the reason I queried it given it was your first post..nothing more than that.


----------



## gunnerfitzy

If anyone is interested in the travel insurance that comes with NIB packages details are [broken link removed].

I have no connection with NIB only that I recently opened a current account with them and it was because of that I knew where to find the information on the website.


----------



## bluckaneyr

That's the location I was referred to by NIB also yesterday.
The cover for Prestige is somewhat more than that for the basic Easy Plus package.
The 24/7 package offers nothing. 

I'm not saying people going on holidays should make their banking decisions around this one feature, but it's something to factor in at this time when a lot of people are reassessing what suits them.


----------



## ronaldo

I understand fully peoples contempt towards NIB with regard to switching the fee-free Current Account to a fee-paying Current Account. ​ 
Whilst it’s true that a lot of customers won’t switch purely to avoid the hassle, it’s wrong to assume that all customers that remain with NIB fall into this group.

I had a look at the ‘no-strings-attached’ product from Ulster Bank as well as some of the other products available. Being resident in the Republic of Ireland and working in Northern Ireland, all of my banking is done via Northern Ireland except for the following:


one monthly lodgment
one monthly mortgage payment (not sure whether this will attract a fee as it’s internal)
one monthly mobile direct debit (ending soon)
one annual life insurance direct debit
 
If my figures are correct, it’ll cost me €20 + (12 * €0.34) + (12 * €0.30) + €0.30 = €27.98.

As I don’t have a lot of activity in the account, the options that require minimum balances or a certain number of transactions don’t really suit me. The best options for me were Bank of Irelands PAYG option at €0.28 per transaction or Ulster Bank’s free option (but for how long).

One of the main reasons I stuck with NIB was fear of losing my tracker rate (which I now know wouldn’t have happened anyway).

The other reason is that I can lodge money in the post office on a Saturday and it’d be available in my account for any mortgage payments due on the Monday. With AIB, it took a couple of days for the transfer to complete. This reason for sticking with NIB is still a valid one.


----------



## bluckaneyr

serotoninsid said:


> Ok, I agree - I should not presume that _you_ are lethargic.  In fact, that was not the intention.  The option was presented to others as 'convenient'.  I would label that _in general_ as akin to customer lethargy.  The lack of will for consumers to switch away from their current banking provider is well known.
> 
> 
> Again, it's not a personal criticism.  Furthermore, it's not a question specific to you or to me.  You intimated to all readers that it had a value of €65.  As outlined, I am skeptical of these types of products - as so much falls within the small print.  For that reason, I briefly checked it out on their website and they certainly don't go into any detail on it there....in which case, it's impossible to determine what the nature of that cover is.
> Ok, no worries.  That's good enough for me.  However, I'm sure you can appreciate the reason I queried it given it was your first post..nothing more than that.




I'm not exactly young, innocent and sensitive, so I can dust myself off and move on, but first time posters shouldn't be immediately greeted with instant suspicion, in my view. Also, were I posting that I was leaving NIB, would people be asking if I had a vested interest with another bank?

Some people will carry on with the 24/7 default option for whatever reason, some like me will change their banking arrangements within NIB based on what best suits their situation and some will move on elsewhere too, depending on their circumstances. Nobody has a monopoly of moral superiority based on which option fits them best. 
It's even more complex, I feel. Different people will come up with  different amounts they consider it worthwhile switching for. Some people  switch insurance or banking arrangements for a euro. Others factor in  the amount of time it will take to switch and what value that time has.   I would put myself somewhere in the middle, but I regularly change my  insurance arrangements none the less. Why have I been with NIB for 36 years?  Because they have been very efficient and whenever an issue arose, it  was resolved pleasantly. Others will have their own experiences, I've mine.

I've no mortgage consideration but I know one person who is delighted with the new NIB options, given it reduces his mortgage repayments. However, I'm glad that issue of charging for those current accounts linked to their mortgage terms and conditions looks like being resolved. The amount of money involved in the overall, the hassle it has produced and the fact that ordinary staff were unprepared to deal with the initial queries would seem to indicate this was a hiccup based on poor planning. I'm sure the lesson is learned.


----------



## bluckaneyr

ronaldo said:


> I understand fully peoples contempt towards NIB with regard to switching the fee-free Current Account to a fee-paying Current Account...................​
> ............ I can lodge money in the post office on a Saturday and it’d be available in my account for any mortgage payments due on the Monday. With AIB, it took a couple of days for the transfer to complete. This reason for sticking with NIB is still a valid one.



Yes, and only you can put a value on what that's worth to you too.
Others can't just insist it has no value or is invalid.

In my case I was seeking the best arrangement for a combination of current and deposit accounts. I know it's impossible to put a precise value on this but money lodged in NIB is covered with a double line of protection, firstly under the Irish Deposit Protection Scheme and secondly the Danish Guarantee Fund.

If one line of deposit protection is better than none, then perhaps two levels of protection are better than one.


----------



## serotoninsid

bluckaneyr said:


> I'm not exactly young, innocent and sensitive, so I can dust myself off and move on, but first time posters shouldn't be immediately greeted with instant suspicion, in my view.


No disrespect intended.  I just thought it would be worthwhile to rule it in or out - and you've confirmed that - so no harm done.  As a long time reader on AAM, it's something that does come up from time to time - and people are often queried in this way from what I can see.



bluckaneyr said:


> Also, were I posting that I was leaving NIB, would people be asking if I had a vested interest with another bank?


Everything is open to scrutiny on an open, public discussion board.  That's what makes AAM the great resource it is.



bluckaneyr said:


> Some people will carry on with the 24/7 default option for whatever reason, some like me will change their banking arrangements within NIB based on what best suits their situation and some will move on elsewhere too, depending on their circumstances. Nobody has a monopoly of moral superiority based on which option fits them best.
> It's even more complex, I feel. Different people will come up with  different amounts they consider it worthwhile switching for. Some people  switch insurance or banking arrangements for a euro. Others factor in  the amount of time it will take to switch and what value that time has.   I would put myself somewhere in the middle, but I regularly change my  insurance arrangements none the less. Why have I been with NIB for 36 years?  Because they have been very efficient and whenever an issue arose, it  was resolved pleasantly. Others will have their own experiences, I've mine.


Not sure where 'moral superiority' comes into it (or where that has been expressed?) but otherwise, I agree completely with all of the above - it's logical.


----------



## bluckaneyr

serotoninsid said:


> No disrespect intended.  I just thought it would be worthwhile to rule it in or out - and you've confirmed that - so no harm done.  As a long time reader on AAM, it's something that does come up from time to time - and people are often queried in this way from what I can see.
> 
> Everything is open to scrutiny on an open, public discussion board.  That's what makes AAM the great resource it is.
> 
> Not sure where 'moral superiority' comes into it (or where that has been expressed?) but otherwise, I agree completely with all of the above - it's logical.



So Everything is open to scrutiny?

In 7 pages of this thread carrying 131 postings only one person was  asked if they had a vested interest. 
I am that person and you made the call. 
Only one person  was told in response to their first ever posting that I should rewrite  that posting when I was directed to "Please replace convenience with  customer lethargy". You made that call andI am that person being told to reword my first posting.
I believe that were I to have said I had severed my links with NIB, I  would not have been asked if I had a vested interest in another bank.
Because I was staying with NIB for reasons I had stated in that posting, I was dismissed as having a "sunny disposition to NIB".
I believe that if I was moving from NIB I would NOT  have been similarly dismissed with having "a frosty disposition to NIB".

That's what I believe.
You claim otherwise.
Thankfully it's not all about what either of us believes or claims, so time to move on.

The main point is that members who researched and argued their valid and just case throughout the thread have prevailed.
Well done to them all, very impressive.


----------



## serotoninsid

@bluckaneyr: I assume from your post above that the 'moral superiority' comment was directed at me then.  I'm not going to pick through your post above - as I've already addressed all of the points raised.  This is a *factual* thread - lets not spoil that!


Build a bridge and get over it ...if it's _convenient_ for you.


----------



## twofor1

We have an average of 8 transactions weekly which meant we would be better off on either the Prestige or Easy Plus packages.

The Prestige package with the discount on the mortgage was attractive but this cannot be availed of with any other discount which we already have and the extra interest on savings for prestige account holders is a fixed term deposit until April 2013, thereafter it reverts to their standard prestige savings account, currently paying a poor 1.5%.

So we opted for the Easy Plus @ €75 annually, no transaction charges and free travel insurance, nothing else in this package would be of any benefit to us.

Had a call this week from our branch wanting to arrange a suitable time for our financial assessment, what financial assessment I enquired, the young lady went on to explain the Easy Plus came with a gold mastercard with a higher credit limit and an overdraft facility so necessitated a financial assessment.

Fair enough if we wanted an overdraft or increased limit on the credit cards.

But we don’t want an overdraft and only want the very low limit on the credit card which by choice we currently have, all we want is the travel insurance that comes with the package that we now have to pay €75 annually for.

Bottom line, if we don’t both go to our branch in person for a financial assessment we will get the Easy Plus package but only with the standard mastercard and not the gold which the travel insurance comes with.

Having banked with them for 10 years+, have or had mortgages and car loans, never missed a payment or been overdrawn and credit card paid in full every month, is this not asking a bit much simply to avail of the travel insurance ? I don’t think I could do it.

Has any existing customer with the standard mastercard managed to get the Easy Plus or Prestige package without having to call personally for a financial assessment ?


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## DrMoriarty

You could always put it to them that you'll consider continuing with their services once you've conducted your own financial assessment. After all, in the last three years NIB has written off over a billion euro in bad debt, or approx 10% of their entire loan book. 

[broken link removed]


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## bluckaneyr

serotoninsid said:


> @bluckaneyr: I assume from your post above that the 'moral superiority' comment was directed at me then.  I'm not going to pick through your post above - as I've already addressed all of the points raised.  This is a *factual* thread - lets not spoil that!
> 
> 
> Build a bridge and get over it ...if it's _convenient_ for you.



serotoninsid,
I certainly have ruffled a few feathers there, but you have moved from your initial unfounded comments about my "sunny disposition" and accusations of "lethargy' to now committing to being "factual".
Echoes of your former self in your final salutation, but lets build that bridge and move on.


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## bluckaneyr

twofor1 said:


> We have an average of 8 transactions weekly which meant we would be better off on either the Prestige or Easy Plus packages...........
> 
> Has any existing customer with the standard mastercard managed to get the Easy Plus or Prestige package without having to call personally for a financial assessment ?



I know exactly where you are coming from. 

For my part, despite being a customer for 36 years, my wife and I were similarly invited to a financial assessment in advance of entering the new package, so it's not a requirement aimed at you specifically, it would seem.

Whether or not you go is a personal decision and you seem to have weighed up your benefit options carefully up to the point of this assessment requirement being raised. 

For my part, I decided to go for the "assessment" because the Prestige / Platinum option was in my interest. 
Also were I not to go and move elsewhere instead, the first thing I'd expect to be told by the alternative institution is that they too would require me to do a "face to face" assessment of a similar nature.

Best of luck either way.


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## pilotsnipes

Lads give it a rest please. Could we just go back on topic please, I'm tried of getting new post emails to my account just to read the last 20 posts that have done nothing for this thread.

Thank you.


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## bluckaneyr

pilotsnipes said:


> Lads give it a rest please. Could we just go back on topic please, I'm tried of getting new post emails to my account just to read the last 20 posts that have done nothing for this thread.
> 
> Thank you.



Agreed.
I've already moved on.


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## DingDing

Just worth mentioning that if you avail of the mortgage discount under the prestige account you are issued with a new mortgage agreement.

I declined the discount when faced with the new agreement as it was different to the agreement I had.

I did not trust NIB as I had to take them to the ombudsman before over attempts to change a mortgage agreement.


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## Wolverine

Hi All,

Finally heard back from NIB. (See email below).
I think it's a solution, but am a bit sceptical and parenoid as such.

(Dr Moriarty et al that have been very helpful in fighting NIB on this), IYO, would you think that this email is enough to cover myself in the future with regards to keeping my tracker safe ?

And is an email from an employee a safe bet, or should I request a headed letter to the effect?

Thanks,
Wolverine



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: 247StaffEnquiries <247staffenquiries@nationalirishbank.ie>
Subject: Fw: National Irish Bank
To: 


Dear x, 

Thank you for your email and  apologies for the delay in responding to your original email. 

I can confirm that your current account can be converted to a fee free servicing account. If you to decide to convert the account to a servicing account you will not have access to the account via ATM/Laser card or through our ebanking service. 

By changing your account to a service account it will not affect your LTV ECB tracker rate. 

While you also have the option of setting up a direct debit to the mortgage from an external bank a/c (again this will not affect your LTV ECB rate) you will need to keep the servicing account open in order to receive TRS. This TRS can be accessed by setting up a standing order from the servicing account to your external account. 

If you would like to convert your account to a servicing account please advise and additionally if you want to set up a direct debit to an external account and I will issue a new direct debit mandate to you. 

Regards, 

(A NAME) 
National Irish Bank 



Email Sent to NIB.

Dear Sir/Madam, 

......
..... (explaining breach of the consumer credit act 1995, the banking consumer protecting code, and the consumer protection code)....
...
.
1.  I request that you confirm that the requirement in our loan agreement relating to the maintaining of a current account is now no longer operative, without prejudice to the maintenance of our LTV ECB Tracker rate ? 

2.  I would like you to confirm if & how I can (without having an effect on my LTV ECB tracker) maintain my LTV ECB tracker mortgage, and make payments from another bank, if I decide to move my day-to-day banking to another bank, without incurring ongoing NIB account fees? 

I am aware that some NIB customer accounts are being converted to a "Fee-Free servicing" account, can you confirm that in the future, my current account can be converted to a "Fee Free Servicing Account" ? 

I asked you to either confirm that point 1 of the above is true, or that you escalate this to your complaints department as a formal complaint.  

Kind Regards,
Wolverine


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## oysterman

*how to withdraw money from "free" service a/c?*

Have had tracker mortgage with NIB for some years.

They have converted my current a/c into one of these fee-free servicing accounts. They did this without my specific consent but for all I know I may have ignored correspondence relating to it.

Now my problem is that I can't access the excess money in that account, that I don't need to service my mortgage, through online banking.

If I go in and withdraw it by cheque they will charge me for the privilege. Don't particularly want it in cash in any event but doubt this will be an option once they close their branches as announced.

Has anybody solved this issue? It'll be an ongoing one because the mortgage payment is less than the salary going into the account.


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## DrMoriarty

Hi Wolverine, sorry I didn't see this sooner.

Maybe I'm being over-cautious, but I would insist on a letter _signed in person_ by either your branch manager or the head of lending. This constitutes a change to the terms written into your official loan documentation, which is all very formally signed, dated and witnessed, and given the way NIB have treated their customers I would have no compunction about requiring them now to conduct their business in a professional manner.

If they ever tried to pull a fast one on your ECB Tracker rate, a signed letter like this would be a much firmer defence than an email from an employee (soon-to-be _ex_-employee, perhaps) at their 247 Staff Enquiries department, who has no authority to alter the legally binding terms of your Loan Agreement. I would consider this email simply as an explanatory note in response to your questions, _not _as an adequate assurance that your tracker rate will be protected.


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## Yakuza

A "Custody Cash Account" has appeared in my online banking in the last few days. (So now I have  my Easy feeder, the mortgage and now this new one).  It appears to offer 1.5% p.a. on credit balances - any idea what this is for?  I'll give them a ring later on but I wanted to see if anyone else had come across this as well.


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## BarrenMuffet

Yes. I have a custody account with them and use this account to settle trades, corporate actions and take their account fee (€20 *2 p.a.).


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## Yakuza

I also have a custody account, but up to now the Easy account was used to settle trades (and pay for the fee).  I rang my branch and they've clarified it for me; Basically what was my Easy account (which was a full-blown current account (but I only used it as a servicing account) has now been converted to a servicing account.  In order not to incur charges, there can only be 5 transactions or less a month on it.  The new Custody Cash account is only to be used to pay for trades and the account fee.  I'll have set up another transferee from my BoI account to get money into that account to settle trades (as if I transfer money from the old easy account straight into this custody cash account, then that will make the easy account look like a proper current account which will then attract fees).  If I want to use the proceeds of any share dealings against my mortgage, I have to transfer the money back out of the custody cash account into BoI and then back again from BoI to the Easy feeder and then put it against the mortgage - which will take a good few working days instead of being instantaneous - as to do otherwise seems to not be allowed by the Custody Cash account.

It's a mild annoyance, not the end of the world.  What I don't get is that in order for them to save money, it would appear they've set up another (free) single-purpose account to have to manage for everyone who happens to have a mortgage and custody account with them.


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## trustno1

Regarding TRS payments into my Loan Servicing Account, NIB are offering me the use of a Standing Order to move this money into my Ulsterbank Account. Does the SO have to be for a fixed amount or can it be that I can set it up to move whatever TRS payment that I have received?


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## theresa1

Must be a fixed amount.


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## lff12

twofor1 said:


> Has any existing customer with the standard mastercard managed to get the Easy Plus or Prestige package without having to call personally for a financial assessment ?



No, I too had to visit a branch to basically change the colour of my card! It was an hour spent with a nice but gormless young official who like many I encounter in the industry, didn't really understand my working as a contractor, umbrella accounts etc - but in the end I gave up trying to explain that the company name paying my wages was a legal entity rather than an employer.

I moved back to my home town in Dublin about 2 years ago so it was worth building a relationship with the local branch which is becoming a "service center" (which I guess is really just what remains of a branch). Its had the interesting impact of the "branch" for the mastercard now being Swords while my current account still has a Cork South Mall sort code.  I'd certainly prefer the option of being able to visit the nearest service center than have fit it in during a rare weekday trip to Cork.

I had 2 current accounts, a mastercard and an eSaver account.  The history is that due to the appalling way I was treated when in arrears with AIB and BOI about 10 years ago, I shut down my relationship with them as soon as I had cleared everything I owed and moved everything to what was then an NIB "Freebank" account.  When they brought in the combined package a couple of years later, I moved to the "easy" package to take advantage of the cheaper credit card rate.  I left the Freebank account open because it had a chequebook attached, the easy didn't, and they only have a 450 euro per day withdrawal limit, which in Ireland is not enough cash to pay your rent!!

So I've closed the Freebank account (my domestic renting is via internet banking now so don't need cheques), left the eSaver open (I don't use it so much since they reduced the interest rate - I use Rabodirect as I do buy the odd invstment with them and it makes it a little more difficult to withdraw.  I switched to Easy Plus as I used to pay for travel insurance every year and it goes some way towards covering the cost.  I also switched to the gold card for the sake of it.

It is striking though, that our banking needs do change from time to time and the services need, but really none of the banks are fully addressing this.  A lot of older people were very alienated by the cashless banking, and given that they are the wealthiest group in the country, you'd think NIB would have done more to retain them.  I'd imagine that if they really wanted to pull out of Ireland they'd have done it already.  By the looks of things they seem to be retrenching and watching what happens and I'd say they'll take a decision a year or two down the line.  They're still very big players up north so there is a bit of an interest in retaining some business in the republic to service business customers crossborder needs.


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## DingDing

Recently when AIB and NIB introduced charges I consolidated my 2 current accounts into 1 NIB prestiege account. 

I was on holidays recently and when checking on-line banking I noticed there were 3 fraudulent transactions.

I rang up, spent ages waiting on the phone. The operator identified that the problem was with my wife's card and said he would cancel hers and get a new card issued. They were also to send out some paperwork to report the fraud and claim a refund. All fine so far. 

The form never arrived, the blocked both cards and now I can see the available balance had dropped further so there may be more transactions. 

Went to ring this morning Sunday to sort it out but the call centre is not opened Sundays. 

They only have an ebanking support which is a foreign call canter who don't have access to accounts. 

On top of this they are closing the local branch in a few weeks. 

Seriously thinking of going back to AIB now but it is a condition of the mortgage sti pay it from my NIB current account.


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## serotoninsid

DingDing said:


> Seriously thinking of going back to AIB now but it is a condition of the mortgage sti pay it from my NIB current account.


If you want to move, don't let that stop you.  Get the account type changed to a feeder account for the mortgage - and go and set up your main a/c with AIB.  They can't charge you for the feeder a/c - provided you don't make any additional transactions - other than transferring funds into it.


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## DingDing

Thanks for that advice. I must call in during the week.


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## Ado70

Has anyone any knowledge of NIB's standpoint to the Custody account fees and the Prestige account? I was on the phone to them over a month ago about changing to a Prestige account and they told me the €40 fee for the custody account would be included in the €125 Prestige rate. Between the free insurance and the Custody fees this would have been a good option for me. However, when I went to the bank they told me this was a mistake even though the first girl at the counter told me it was true. Has anyone else enquired about Custody account fees being included in Prestige account fees and what was the outcome?


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## Yakuza

Just an addendum - the e-banking facilities have had a reduction in functionality for free(servicing) accounts- you can't transfer money out of them any more, which is most annoying.


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## Alex

DingDing said:


> Recently when AIB and NIB introduced charges I consolidated my 2 current accounts into 1 NIB prestiege account.
> 
> I was on holidays recently and when checking on-line banking I noticed there were 3 fraudulent transactions.
> 
> I rang up, spent ages waiting on the phone. The operator identified that the problem was with my wife's card and said he would cancel hers and get a new card issued. They were also to send out some paperwork to report the fraud and claim a refund. All fine so far.
> 
> The form never arrived, the blocked both cards and now I can see the available balance had dropped further so there may be more transactions.
> 
> Went to ring this morning Sunday to sort it out but the call centre is not opened Sundays.
> 
> They only have an ebanking support which is a foreign call canter who don't have access to accounts.
> 
> On top of this they are closing the local branch in a few weeks.
> 
> Seriously thinking of going back to AIB now but it is a condition of the mortgage sti pay it from my NIB current account.


a few years ago i had 2 fraudulent transactions on my nib current account and both on the same day. a couple of months ago it happened again and that was after getting a new card/pin. i filled out forms and got my money back each time but never an explanation. strange how it happened again.


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