# Unemployment better than working



## Bronte (4 May 2012)

Someone has told me they would be better off on the dole. 

Couple, one working and other at home minding 3 children. Earnings are 2800 a month. Commuting an hour to work.

According to them they'd be entitled to:

Social Welfare 

188+29+29+29+124 = 399 

2. Rent allowance 

Max rent of 550, less personal contribution of 60 Euro (not sure of their contribution)

3. Medical card 

4. Child allowance 

________________________________________________________________ 

1. Current income 

Monthly 2800 x 12 = 33600 / 52 = 646 weekly 

2. Child allowance 

____________________________________________________________________________ 

Calculation of difference 

Dole 
550 + 399 - 60 = 889 

Salary: 646 

A difference of 243 weekly, plus medical card. On paper it makes sense. Plus commuting costs are 200 a month. 

Are these figures correct, are there any other allowances, like for gas or whatever.


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## micheller (4 May 2012)

With 3 children, they could be entitled to the medical card and FIS anyway alongside working, making it perhaps more advantageous to work. Also it's most likely that welfare will be torn to pieces in the next budget so better to insure themselves by staying employed. Finally long term the benefits of staying working are well documented- PRSI, motivation, skills, education.


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## 44brendan (4 May 2012)

Interesting.! AFAIK couples are required to pay a minimum of €35 pw towards their rent.


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## Thrifty (4 May 2012)

Your calculations are wrong because you are taking the rent supplement of €550 as a weekly amount rather than as a monthly.


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## DB74 (4 May 2012)

micheller said:


> Also it's most likely that welfare will be torn to pieces in the next budget



This will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever happen


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## micheller (4 May 2012)

DB74 said:


> This will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever happen



Source? Something's got to give.
At this stage it's going to be the whole country.
No seriously, maybe you're right.


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## callybags (4 May 2012)

I presume you can't claim rent allowance if you are available for work but choose not to take it up.

Also, would the Job Seekers Allowance be means tested?


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## vandriver (4 May 2012)

Your figures are wrong.The rent allowance for family with 3 kids in Sligo is 550 MONTHLY.There is a disregard of 35 per week leading to rent supplement of 91.90 a week being paid(not 490 in your example).
So said family would get 399+91.90 ie 490.90 per week ,not 889


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## gipimann (4 May 2012)

As the maximum Jobseeker's Allowance rate is €2 pw higher than the equivalent SWA rate for the same family size, a couple will be required to pay the minimum contribution of €35 pw (as mentioned earlier) plus €2 pw "income in excess" as it's called.

In the example of rent being charged at 550 per month (equivalent to 126.90 pw), the weekly entitlement to Rent Supplement is €89.90 pw


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## Deiseblue (5 May 2012)

cashier said:


> I can't believe this thread, debating whether it is better to go on the Social rather than keep one's job     €2800 is a fair wage to be bringing home.
> How long more can this farce go on for?  Welfare needs to be drastically cut back to stop lifestyle choices of this nature.  The country simply cannot afford it, borrowing 350 million every week, much of it being spend on welfare......



The OP's figures are incorrect - see posts above.


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## Bronte (7 May 2012)

Social Welfare for 2 adults and 3 children

188+29+29+29+124 = 399 

2. Rent allowance 

Max rent of 550 less 35 per week and also less 2 per week. 

So 550 X 12 = 6600 / 52 = 129.9 - 35 = 91.9 - 2 = 89 weekly

89 X 52 = 4628 / 12 = 385 monthly
, 
3. Medical card 

4. Child allowance 

________________________________________________________________ 

1. Current income 

Monthly 2800 x 12 = 33600 / 52 = 646 weekly 

2. Child allowance 

____________________________________________________________________________ 

Calculation of difference 

Dole 
399 + 89 = 488 

Salary: 646 

A difference of 158 weekly, plus medical card. With the commuting costs of 50 Euro weekely the difference is 108. 

Interesting. 

____________________________________________________________

Thanks to everybody for showing me the way, yes Thrify I made an error on the monthly rent and Gipiman is as always great on the social welfare complexities.


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## Bronte (7 May 2012)

cashier said:


> I can't believe this thread, debating whether it is better to go on the Social rather than keep one's job  €2800 is a fair wage to be bringing home.
> ..


 
Cashier I absolutely hear where you are coming from but there is a lot more to this particular story.  Depression, children's health issues and house being repossessed and more.  

As an aside and another situation someone told me that they tried to deal with their bank around 2009 with an investment property (sub prime lender) and no deal, borrower knew it was unsustainable with rent reductions and high interest rate, but just last week, due to arrears etc now finally in 2012 the bank has agreed out of the blue to an interest rate reduction, but it is too late.


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## sustanon (7 May 2012)

What about all that free time you have on social welfare not taken up by a job? What proportion of those on SW are also working? Be it nixers / under the table work etc? Don't look at it as one or the other, for some it's both!


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## Teresa (7 May 2012)

*add in medical expenses*

if you add in the amount weekly for the drugs payment scheme, you would have to take another 33 euro off the 108, and if you had to go to the GP it may be another 40-60 euro.  It is a depressing thought that anyone could be better off on the dole.


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## sean.c (9 May 2012)

I worked for 2 years on €35k in a job I hated.  Married with one child.  Was made redundant (no payoff) and was not eligible for JB.  
Was shocked to find that SWA + Rent Allowance got me to within €10 per week of my working salary.  And at that, I was ashamed to apply for a a medical card - BIG mistake, but oh well.
Found another job after a few months.  Was working for 3 months before I got a letter inviting me to the means test for JA.  Told 'em I was already working and never heard back.


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## gipimann (9 May 2012)

As a rough guide (based on the salary figure quoted) the family have an entitlement to FIS (Family Income Supplement) of about €34 pw.

More information on FIS here:  http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW22/Pages/1WhatisFamilyIncomeSupplement.aspx


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## alica (25 May 2012)

for couples with kids and under-average salary to be on job does not make sence at all.. sadly as it is...

just my family present situation (I ignore mortgage child benefit issues as there is no changes if working or on JB) :

both lost jobs in co.wexford , but still living there ( mortgage),

being on employment incomes/expenditures as there are:

net salaries - 1850+1750 = 3600
less : childcare - 1200 (2 kids, 7 & 2 years)
less: petrol on commuting - 400+400 = 800 
(managed to get low-paid jobs in Dublin only... no prospects to find decent job in wexford in near future..)
_________________
left with 1600 per month, no FIS, no medical card

being on JB :

188*2*52 weeks/12= 1630 per month

+ medical card
+ quality time spend with family on a sea coast... 

... still have no idea why we both are continuing to work....


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## penury (26 May 2012)

Alica, when the JB runs out - then what?

Its a tough decision or choice you have to make along with living in a tough world

Rather than a way of life - is JB not supposed to a band aid solution till folks find work?

On the basis one can live life for as long as they can on JB and continue to get top up's such as the medical card, other top up's or entitlements and with not having to pay day care - spending as much quaiity time as possible with children can be a good thing.. In the end at some point in time I would think the average person would want to be part of a normal society - whatever that entails these days.

Yet there are seemingly healthy folks that never work, that live on welfare their entire lives - each would have its own reasons for being in the situation they are in.

IMHO, its a personal (or moral) decision one has to make rather than just based solely on a financial situation - some people are just too proud to go the welfare route. 

Then again, to survive, folks have to do what is best for them when it seems all odds are against them - and that living on social support benefits or welfare actually provides a better standard of living than it would be working.

Its a crazy world we live in

Good luck to you


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