# Neighbour Problem



## Leesider32 (4 Mar 2020)

Hi all,

Any advice on the below would be appreciated.

Our neighbour has caused us endless problems since we moved into our house last year. She is living by herself, moved in shortly before we did, and appears to have mental health issues. We have involved the gardai and sent a solicitor's letter previously but after a lull of over 6 months she is back to her old ways. While we have had more serious issues with her the main thing now is knocking on our bedroom wall when we get up in the morning no matter how little noise we make. Not sure what we can do.

Btw she has a previous history with neighbours and we did try to talk to her and her mother but no engagement. We also got some extra soundproofing in our room.


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## Feemar5 (4 Mar 2020)

Could you contact the public health nurse for the area- maybe she needs to have her medication adjusted.   Otherwise can you report the noise issue to the council and contact the Garda again re the noise.


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## josh8267 (4 Mar 2020)

Feemar5 said:


> Could you contact the public health nurse for the area- maybe she needs to have her medication adjusted.   Otherwise can you report the noise issue to the council and contact the Garda again re the noise.


I agree with the above they also need to be very careful in there dealings with her,


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## Leesider32 (4 Mar 2020)

Thanks for your replies, to give a bit more background, there were more serious issues the time I went to the gardai, they said they would call up to her mother (her mother bought the house for her and I believe she was living with her before there were a couple of incidents) and even though I followed up multiple times they never got back to me on it.  The council were of no help the last time I contacted and basically said there is nothing we can do unless the noise got a lot more serious and we could record it happening which we have tried and will try again. I thinking is if I can get recordings I will go the civil case route, I have everything detailed from when it started with dates, times and type of disturbance so I have most of teh work done.

How would I go about contacting the public health nurse? Would they not just tell me to get lost that these are private matters?


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## PaddyBloggit (5 Mar 2020)

I'd keep reporting to the Gardaí. There are numerous cases of individuals causing serious harm/death to neighbours/own families on the news at the moment.


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## Pinkpanter (5 Mar 2020)

Is she acutely unwell or chronically unwell/under treated for her mental health problems?
1) Contact Gardai and say you feel unsafe- state her mental health issues are not being addressed and she could benefit from a mental health assessment. They can instigate this under the Mental Health Act.
2) Speak to the mum- encourage her to get help via MH services or re-engage with them.
As a psychiatric nurse- she is probably psychotic- with paranoid ideas. You need to be wary!


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## Leesider32 (5 Mar 2020)

Thanks again for the comments.

I spoke with her mother when it happened first and we had a very civil conversation, offered her my mobile number but she wouldn't take it and then wouldn't engage again after which was very disappointing as I would have liked to have discussed doing things around soundproofing etc. 

I don't know if her mental health issues are being addressed at all but I presume she has been diagnosed with something as there is definitely a lot of paranoia. She gets worse when there is some slight level of engagement like just seeing her at the door when I drive in the driveway. The mother does collect her every Friday evening and she seems to stay with her until Sunday evening so at least we have some respite.

I was thinking of going down the route of the civil case, inform the gardai I am doing this so it is back on their radar. What I am hoping is this opens up some level of mediation and gets the mother to face reality. What are your thoughts?


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## Leo (5 Mar 2020)

The Gardai can't do much other than have a chat. In most cases they'll do nothing as it's a civil matter, they don't have authority to do much more than ask the offender to stop unless it escalates into something much worse. See here for details on Noise Regulations, you can seek an order in the District Court, but I've no idea how successful such actions are.


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## mathepac (5 Mar 2020)

[edit] deleted quoted post

Write to the local Superintendent by name giving all the details and describing its impact on you. Simply ringing the station may not get the problem the attention it deserves.

The Guards won't care about a civil case, it has nothing to do with them.

Just bear in mind that you will have to live with the outcomes of any actions you take and be prepared for what that might mean for you. This is not to deter you from taking action, just a word to the wise.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Mar 2020)

The legal framework in Ireland for noise disturbance is extremely weak. The only route is a civil case but this will cost you and can be hard to prove.

I would write to the local Garda Superintendent outlining the issue. They won't do anything but it will help bolster your civil case.

In the meantime keep a written record of everything, no matter how small.


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## michaelm (5 Mar 2020)

Leesider32 said:


> While we have had more serious issues with her the main thing now is knocking on our bedroom wall when we get up in the morning no matter how little noise we make.


Personally I'd be tempted to just knock back (for a few days) to see if this discouraged her.  I'd stop tiptoeing around anyway.


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## Sunny (5 Mar 2020)

Pinkpanter said:


> Is she acutely unwell or chronically unwell/under treated for her mental health problems?
> 1) Contact Gardai and say you feel unsafe- state her mental health issues are not being addressed and she could benefit from a mental health assessment. They can instigate this under the Mental Health Act.
> 2) Speak to the mum- encourage her to get help via MH services or re-engage with them.
> As a psychiatric nurse- she is probably psychotic- with paranoid ideas. You need to be wary!



As a psychiatric nurse, I am not sure you should be diagnosing people as psychotic with paranoia episodes just because the OP says she APPEARS to have mental health issues.

OP, you seem to suggest that sending a solicitors letter worked last time for a period or at least got her mother engage briefly. Why not try it again and then go down civil case route if that doesn't work. Or unfortunately and I know it is not fair, consider moving if possible.


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## elcato (5 Mar 2020)

Can you change rooms so that you are not on 'that' side of the house ?


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## DirectDevil (5 Mar 2020)

Just a few thoughts.

EVIDENCE.

This is really messy from an evidentiary point of view.
I suggest OP now keeps a *daily* diary or log of everything that goes on.
Write down what happened and note date and time.
Sound and video recordings would also help where relevant.
Make your notes as contemporaneous as is possible.

PSYCHIATRIC ELEMENT.

Nobody can assert the presence of a psychiatric condition by plain and unqualified observation of the subject and there lies a big problem.
A person may be psychiatrically ill. Alternatively, they might not have a diagnosable psychiatric condition but could just have a personality that is atypical, obnoxious or just downright obstreperous.

I think that the public health nurse has no function here at the behest of the public. 
I would persist with Gardai whenever things get out of hand. 
This creates a record of complaints that can be referred to in court if required.

CRIMINAL LAW.

Offhand, the only thing that occurs to me is to formally report the neighbour for harrassment under section 10 of the NFOAP Act 1997.
Follow this link to see the definition of the offence.





						Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997, Section 10
					

The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.



					www.irishstatutebook.ie
				




CIVIL LAW.

If this goes on over a continuous period of time it could constitute the element of the tort of nuisance that deals with OP's right to basic use and enjoyment of their property. This is fine in theory but probably of no practical use if the neighbour is a conveniently defiant type who would ignore court orders on the civil side. (Ignoring any court orders on the criminal side is a more serious matter).
There would also be the matter of legal costs and the practical difficulties of litigation.

MISCELLANEOUS.

I would regard leaving as a very last resort. 
If selling up hope that the neighbour does nothing to make your sale problematical e.g. rendering her greetings to viewers !!.
Interfering with your sale is another problem area and could knock down value.
Finally, I would now avoid* all *communication with the neighbour - what is not said cannot be quoted.....


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## DirectDevil (5 Mar 2020)

P.S. 1
You say neighbour's mother bought the house for her.
I wonder if mother is actually the owner and your neighbour is a tenant.
If so, I would be thinking of attacking [legal sense !] the mother for allowing the continued operation of a nuisance from her property and or failing to abate it.

P.S. 2.
If neighbour is actually a tenant it might also be worth having a chat with THRESHOLD to see what they might add.
LINK https://www.threshold.ie/advice/dea...enancy/antisocial-behaviour-and-noise-issues/


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## Leesider32 (5 Mar 2020)

Thanks again for the replies and I think DirectDevil has probably captured all elements so going to answer on those areas:

*EVIDENCE* - this has all been captured in the manner suggested and it was included with the solicitor's letter.

*PSYCHIATRIC ELEMENT *- yeah would agree that I can't do much in this area especially as her mother wouldn't engage with me.

*CRIMINAL LAW *- I will keep them informed as I believe the gardai called to her house about a different issue last summer.

*CIVIL LAW* - this is the route I would like to explore as I think if I could get into a mediation situation with the mother we might progress to find a suitable solution.

*MISCELLANEOUS* - we avoid all communication with her and particularly as a male I don't want to be seen as an aggressor. However we do not intend to move either and I would see this as a last resort. I would love to think knocking back would resolve the issue but whereas it might give me some immediate satisfaction I don't think it would help. I think going down the route of putting pressure on the mother is the best option.


On the other areas you mention about tenancy etc. I did check this out but unfortunately she is joint owner with her mother.


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## Pinkpanter (5 Mar 2020)

Sunny said:


> As a psychiatric nurse, I am not sure you should be diagnosing people as psychotic with paranoia episodes just because the OP says she APPEARS to have mental health issues.
> 
> OP, you seem to suggest that sending a
> solicitors letter worked last time for a period or at least got her mother engage briefly. Why not try it again and then go down civil case route if that doesn't work. Or unfortunately and I know it is not fair, consider moving
> ...





Sunny said:


> As a psychiatric nurse, I am not sure you should be diagnosing people as psychotic with paranoia episodes just because the OP says she APPEARS to have mental health issues.
> 
> OP, you seem to suggest that sending a solicitors letter worked last time for a period or at least got her mother engage briefly. Why not try it again and then go down civil case route if that doesn't work. Or unfortunately and I know it is not fair, consider moving if possible.



S/he needs to be assessed for psychotic symptoms. Given that she is causing problems of which we don’t know the
full story. The fact the poster believes she has such problems, it is probably a truthful belief.


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## bstop (6 Mar 2020)

You can make a complaint under Section 108 of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act (Noise) Regulations 1994. This complaint is dealt with in the District court. The cost is minimal (approx 20 euro) You do not need a solicitor. You can present your own case. I represented myself a number of years ago. The usual outcome is that you will win the case and the offender will be prosecuted. The judge will then suspend the prosecution for 4 weeks and tell the offender to meet with you and to rectify the noise problem to your satisfaction and ask you both to return to court to check that the issue is solved. The case will then be cancelled. A day in court might change the neighbours bad behaviour.


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## Leesider32 (6 Mar 2020)

bstop said:


> You can make a complaint under Section 108 of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act (Noise) Regulations 1994. This complaint is dealt with in the District court. The cost is minimal (approx 20 euro) You do not need a solicitor. You can present your own case. I represented myself a number of years ago. The usual outcome is that you will win the case and the offender will be prosecuted. The judge will then suspend the prosecution for 4 weeks and tell the offender to meet with you and to rectify the noise problem to your satisfaction and ask you both to return to court to check that the issue is solved. The case will then be cancelled. A day in court might change the neighbours bad behaviour.



Thanks bstop, what kind of evidence did you require for this?


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## Leper (6 Mar 2020)

Introduction:- I can empathise with Leesider's32 problem. About 30 years ago a lady in her 20's moved in next door with her mother. They were the days of no mobile phones and one car per couple with soaring and more soaring interest rates. People with mortgages back then had serious problems meeting monthly payments. Anyway, I digress and back to my neighbour. Our landline was ex-directory and after she asked we gave our number to her in case she had any fears. Her mother (no spring chicken) remained at home all day long and used to call to see my wife for a daily natter and in those days exchange recipes etc (I can see some of our modern female contributors here rolling their eyes upwards at this point). So, we now had better neighbours than before - no, no, no and not a bit of it.

Our old Ford Escort was too loud for our new neighbours when starting each morning. They wanted us to upgrade and we could barely afford to run the old car. Our toothing crying children caused some annoyance to them. Our barking dog (it was the dog of another neighbour, but we were soft targets). Visitors to our house according to our new neighbours were sometimes parking outside their house and making too much noise by their low talking. Our new neighbours would complain about the fluidity of water as far as we were concerned. They "attacked" our young daughters because the stabilising wheels of their new bikes were making too much noise on the road. 
Our other neighbour's dog was barking at midnight and our new neighbour rang our house at 2.30am to complain about what they thought was our dog. Bhí sin an focal deireannach. It was now time to terrorise the terrorist.

Retaliation:- 1. At 3.00am I rang our new neighbour to inform her that the barking dog was not ours. She complained that it was 3.00am and how dare I contact her at that time. I pointed out to her she had no problem ringing me 30 mins earlier (and us with young children). She reported my call to Telecom Eireann as a nuisance call and she also informed the Gardaí that she now felt mentally threatened by the Leprous One.

2. Gardaí visited me, but left with a different point of view after I suggested that she press charges against us and I would look forward to my day in court. 

3. She accosted our young children almost daily over the noise from their bikes, other toys and their so called loud chatter. I button-holed her one day when she returned from work and informed her that if ever in the future she approached my children, I would report her to whatever agency.

4. Late at night and early mornings she banged the wall of her bedroom with (I presume) was a shoe. She bad-mouthed me with those who were still friendly with her. 

5. I am not a good sleeper and I heard the top being removed from our metal bin (remember those!) and I saw her tipping the contents of the bin on the road before she scurried back into her driveway. She didn't realise I saw her.

6. Things were (and in many instances still) screwed up in Ireland. She reported us for the noise.

7. There were many other instances e.g. complained that our milkman was making too much noise delivering our early morning milk.

8. She complained about any external work by local authorities, ESB, Telecom etc on the road. Furthermore, she was moaning about children playing on the nearby green area. 

I am not a psychiatrist and (unlike her)  hold no educational degrees whatsoever. But, I am a fair-minded man and was not going to give in to a "crazy" runt living next door. I instructed our children to ignore her (and at that stage) her mother as both of them became as annoying as each other. Our lawnmower was making too much noise, the raking of grass was causing offence, our gate opening and closing was disturbing them, even the postman hopping over the low fence between our houses drove her potty. I don't buy in to the suggestions above contacting Gardaí etc as they are rarely interested for a start and have their hands tied. I advised my nearest and dearest to "smile and be a villain" and ignore all complaints from her. She continued banging the bedroom wall with her shoes. In other words, I drove her more crazy by passive resistance.

Eventually (after 2 years), a "For Sale" sign appeared outside her house.  Rumour had it that she was marrying a rich Cork man and her mother would be living with the happy couple. The house was sold and we soon had good and friendly neighbours. Her mother died (a magnificent loss!). The newly-wed visited us to complain that none of us turned up at the removal or funeral and she felt dreadfully insulted. My old neighbour's marriage lasted no time; she "didn't consider all the demands and sacrifices of married life."

Leprous Summary:- That runt had no problems (she was a public servant) and I reckon her biggest problem was that she had no problems. My only advice to the Original Poster here is:- Smile and be a Villain and accept no "crap" from his neighbour.


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## josh8267 (6 Mar 2020)

AS I was reading your post I was expecting to find out at the end how you came up with the nick name Leper, The advice you have giving is as good as its gets unless the sell up,
Good to see you posting again ,


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## RedOnion (6 Mar 2020)

@Leper
You sound like a nightmare to live beside. Just how loud are you raking the grass??


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## mathepac (6 Mar 2020)

Pinkpanter said:


> S/he needs to be assessed for psychotic symptoms. Given that she is causing problems of which we don’t know the
> full story. The fact the poster believes she has such problems, it is probably a truthful belief.


The first thing that it is needed is a first-hand, objective assessment by a disinterested, suitably qualified 3rd-party. We only have one side of the story here, and, with all due respects to the OP, maybe there is a degree of exaggeration to the version of the story we are hearing. Therefore we have a subjective view and maybe, for all we know, both parties need  assessing.

I worry when we jump to remote, unobserved, subjective diagnoses in forums such as these. It is unprofessional and I don't believe it has any place in a consumer forum.


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## Pinkpanter (6 Mar 2020)

mathepac said:


> The first thing that it is needed is a first-hand, objective assessment by a disinterested, suitably qualified 3rd-party. We only have one side of the story here, and, with all due respects to the OP, maybe there is a degree of exaggeration to the version of the story we are hearing. Therefore we have a subjective view and maybe, for all we know, both parties need  assessing.
> 
> I worry when we jump to remote, unobserved, subjective diagnoses in forums such as these. It is unprofessional and I don't believe it has any place in a consumer forum.



Naturally a third party, suitably qualified professional.
I wasn’t suggesting you go around and do it!!
Mathepac.


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## Sunny (6 Mar 2020)

Pinkpanter said:


> Naturally a third party, suitably qualified professional.
> I wasn’t suggesting you go around and do it!!
> Mathepac.



Why? You have already diagnosed her as psychotic with paranoid tendencies based on a post by someone you don't know about someone you don't know about an argument you don't know anything about...…..And you are a psychiatric nurse so that's good enough for me.....


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## Leesider32 (6 Mar 2020)

mathepac said:


> The first thing that it is needed is a first-hand, objective assessment by a disinterested, suitably qualified 3rd-party. We only have one side of the story here, and, with all due respects to the OP, maybe there is a degree of exaggeration to the version of the story we are hearing. Therefore we have a subjective view and maybe, for all we know, both parties need  assessing.
> 
> I worry when we jump to remote, unobserved, subjective diagnoses in forums such as these. It is unprofessional and I don't believe it has any place in a consumer forum.



Of course this is the ideal but how do you go about getting some agency or whatever to do this?? If they want to assess me and my wife absolutely no problem there either. I want mediation, a solution but all of my efforts to go down this avenue have come to nothing.

I mentioned earlier that I would go down the civil case avenue and my thinking there is that this would actually force the mother to engage properly.


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## Alkers86 (6 Mar 2020)

Leesider32 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Any advice on the below would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


Am I missing something here? Just leave her knock and get on with your life - it sounds like you're already up at this stage so just ignore it.

If you do any of the suggested steps, your main complaint is that she hears you in the morning and then bangs on the wall. She could have just a valid noise complaint against you as you do against her? When you look at it as a 3rd party, it would seem that you are causing the initial noise, which results in her making noise herself. I know this not may be the actual situation but that's what it will seem to a 3rd party.


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## Leper (6 Mar 2020)

josh8267 said:


> AS I was reading your post I was expecting to find out at the end how you came up with the nick name Leper, The advice you have giving is as good as its gets unless the sell up,
> Good to see you posting again ,



Hi Josh,

1. Someday, I'll advise on how I came up with the pseudonym "Leper" - a story I'll eventually include in my unworthwhile autobiography.
2. Since I retired, I spend much time in the south of Spain (25 degrees yesterday) and while there, I read more and I post here less. But, I have returned early to attend a funeral.
3. Thanks for the heads-up on the post.


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## Feemar5 (6 Mar 2020)

You can contact the public health nurse at your local HSE office - she may be able to refer her to a more appropriate service  but at least you will have it on record that you had concerns.


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## Sunny (6 Mar 2020)

Feemar5 said:


> You can contact the public health nurse at your local HSE office - she may be able to refer her to a more appropriate service  but at least you will have it on record that you had concerns.



No you can't. It's no wonder our health service is creaking at the seams if the advice is that any Tom, Dick or Harry can ring up a public health nurse and tell them that their neighbour has mental health problems. Lets get real here folks. Deal with the noise issue. Leave mental health and advice for people on how to deal with it out of it.


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## Leper (6 Mar 2020)

mathepac said:


> The first thing that it is needed is a first-hand, objective assessment by a disinterested, suitably qualified 3rd-party. We only have one side of the story here, and, with all due respects to the OP, maybe there is a degree of exaggeration to the version of the story we are hearing. Therefore we have a subjective view and maybe, for all we know, both parties need  assessing.
> 
> I worry when we jump to remote, unobserved, subjective diagnoses in forums such as these. It is unprofessional and I don't believe it has any place in a consumer forum.



Leesider32 is entitled to his opinion on anything. Forums such as this are for people to share their opinions and/or whatever experiences happened to them. Subjects such as this are important to people looking in because who knows that you could be the subject of an unwelcome situation caused by a stupid neighbour. 

Perhaps I am naive, but how do you get a "first-hand, objjective assessment by a disinterested, suitably qualified 3rd-party" - Leeside32 shared his situation with us. He needn't of course, but I reiterate he has every right to post here.

"I worry when we jump to remote, unobserved, subjective diagnoses in forums such as these. It is unprofessional and I don't believe it has any place in a consumer forum." You're wrong


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## mathepac (6 Mar 2020)

And of course I wasn't referring to the OP's request for help or input, but to the self-identified psychiatric nurse who diagnosed the OP's neighbour " as psychotic with paranoid tendencies ". 

I have no idea how to help the OP other than by offering my earlier suggestion.

Do you believe I'm wrong to worry about a non-medic offering a remote, un-supported diagnosis  or that's it's wrong to do it in a consumer forum?

Or wrong to disagree with your opinion?


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## Leper (6 Mar 2020)

mathepac said:


> And of course I wasn't referring to the OP's request for help or input, but to the self-identified psychiatric nurse who diagnosed the OP's neighbour " as psychotic with paranoid tendencies ".
> 
> I have no idea how to help the OP other than by offering my earlier suggestion.
> 
> ...



You're entitled to your opinion too.


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## Leesider32 (15 Apr 2020)

Alkers86 said:


> Am I missing something here? Just leave her knock and get on with your life - it sounds like you're already up at this stage so just ignore it.
> 
> If you do any of the suggested steps, your main complaint is that she hears you in the morning and then bangs on the wall. She could have just a valid noise complaint against you as you do against her? When you look at it as a 3rd party, it would seem that you are causing the initial noise, which results in her making noise herself. I know this not may be the actual situation but that's what it will seem to a 3rd party.




This has gotten worse since the lockdown as all her attention now seems to be on pissing us off as she has nothing better to do. Knocking on our wall in the morning would not be a problem if it was just in the morning when we got up. The problem is she deliberately knocks on our wall during the night so as to wake us up, this is not coincidental noise like loud music (although she does that throughout the day when it suits her), a door slamming or a vacuum cleaner. This is a deliberate action with the sole purpose of interrupting our sleep. She did this last night at 3:30am, 4:30am and 5am, so we were awake from 3:30am until we got to sleep again at 5:30am. I have all of this recorded and yes this happens nearly every night. And in these times we are supposed to be getting enough sleep to keep our immune systems functioning well!!!

So the above gives an idea of what is happening at present. I was onto citizens information yesterday and they said I could look for an adult ASBO against her which is under Part 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and states that:

Anti-social behaviour occurs where a person causes or, in the circumstances is likely to cause, to one or more persons who are not of the same household as the person:

Harassment or
Significant or persistent alarm, distress, fear or intimidation or
*Significant or persistent impairment of their use or enjoyment of their property.*
The part in bold is what I want to go for. Anyone have experience with this? I know the gardai will be reluctant but this can't go on and yes I did call them yesterday as well but didn't mention the above as I wasn't aware of it at the time.


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## DeeKie (15 Apr 2020)

Would you ask a solicitor to write a letter for you to her, saying you want to repair neighbour relations but if it continues the options are as you have outlined? It seems like you are going through hell in fairness.

Alternatively tell her that you have invested in wonderful expensive sound cancelling earphones and so are getting perfectly good night sleep, if she is cracked enough as you say she might desists then. However, who knows what she’d start up then!


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## Peanuts20 (15 Apr 2020)

some good advice here from FLAAC which may help



			https://www.flac.ie/assets/files/pdf/neighbour_disputes.pdf
		


what do the other neighbours think of this person?


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## Leesider32 (15 Apr 2020)

This all started over a year ago, she was always playing her radio very loud so I tried to talk to her but she would never answer the door so once she was coming in home while I was and I said 'hey how are you' and got totally ignored. Then she started banging on the wall!!

I tried the friendly letter, didn't do anything, went to talk to her mother as she is half owner of the house, didn't do anything, sent a solicitor's letter and it stopped for 8 months. While all of this was going on last year I was in contact with the gardai and yes she has a history.

All of the neighbours are aware there are issues as a garda car called to her house twice last summer which was nothing to do with us (actually a neighbour let us know it happened). And there was another issue which I won't go into not related to us and also a couple of things related to us I am leaving out.........none of could come to criminal charges but could have if they continued.

So what are my options? What would you do if you were in my shoes? I have followed all steps so I think I best option is to go ASBO!!


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## Sue Ellen (17 Apr 2020)

Hi Leesider32,

All sounds horrific to have to deal with.

If I were in your shoes I would sound my solicitor out about the ASBO aspect before proceeding any further.

Sounds as if you are not getting much help from your Community Garda.  Have they been able to speak to her mother?  GDPR would probably prevent this to a certain extent but it could be approached from the co-owner angle and her responsibility in this respect.


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## Leper (17 Apr 2020)

Back in the 1970's I rented a small flat. My immediate neighbour in a room divided by a thin sound enhancing stud partition was a German lady who had a grá for Irish folk music. Back in those days I used to work a large amount of night duty arriving back at the flat at 8.20am for some sleep. The German lady would  have headed out to work at 7.45am leaving a stack of LP's mounted on her record player which continued to play loudly for 2/3 hours after she had left. (I got to know the words of every Clancy/Makem song until I eventually sounded like a depressed Liam Clancy.

Being the gallant person I am, I asked her to at least turn off her record player when she was leaving her flat. "I vill du az I vish" she informed me. Lep says to himself "No point in arguing here." I'd be leaving for work at 11.30pm at around the same time Frau Fritenzeshiten (not her real name) would be returning home after a night out.

Retaliation was my only hope and I'd leave my record player stacked with LP's by Bridie Gallagher, Royal Showband, Dixies and any other corny act I could lay  my hands on. It took three nights before my Teutonic neighbour crawled to my door with a verbal peace treaty. She had a few lapses on the treaty, but after some more retaliation this time with Daniel O'Donnell LP's she could take no more. (Rep of Ireland 1 - 0 West Germany).


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## Leesider32 (17 Apr 2020)

Retaliation isn't really an option as we don't have the time to be annoying her to the degree that would work especially in these confined times whereas it appears to be her life's work when you consider she gets up at night, every night, multiple times to bang on our wall!!

Anyway my plan is as follows, feel free to pick holes in it:


I have had some traction with the gardai when I mentioned an ASBO, they called down to me Wednesday and I explained the situation at a high level, of course I got the whole thing of we can't do anything only ask her to stop etc. so I said no actually look at the ASBO law, they agreed to call into her last night which they did. They called me to update me, of course she denied banging on the wall but continued to do it last night! 
In the meantime I have sent a letter to the mother saying she is responsible for what happens in her house and I have been engaging with gardai, solicitor and looking at an ASBO. This avenue got us the 8 months peace and quiet the last time.
The gard is off duty until Tuesday and will be calling me again to see how things went but as per the above she has taken no notice so I am going to suggest that I go through everything with them in detail including the effects it is having on us and that I want to make a statement. Also that we have tried every avenue and the only and strongest option is to go down the ASBO route. I will have all of this written up over the weekend so they have it in writing from me and can't be ignored.
If I am not getting traction after that I will write directly to the superintendent, ask a sergeant who is a friend of the family in another county could they put in a call, and engage a solicitor. If necessary I will be contacting my local councillor and will be bringing up a person living in a house by themselves with what appears to be mental health issues.
I am aware all of this will take time but that is only if the gardai continue to put roadblocks up.

Btw I have mentioned the ASBO and the law around it to solicitor acquaintances in other legal areas and they say it looks like a very good option to go with.


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## Leper (17 Apr 2020)

Leesider32 said:


> Retaliation isn't really an option as we don't have the time to be annoying her to the degree that would work especially in these confined times whereas it appears to be her life's work when you consider she gets up at night, every night, multiple times to bang on our wall!!
> 
> Anyway my plan is as follows, feel free to pick holes in it:
> 
> ...


Forgive me Leesider32, but you have committed hari-kiri as far as being a neighbour is concerned. I don't disagree with the lengths you have done to try to resolve the situation. But, in dear-old-Ireland things don't run as smoothly as elsewhere. The Gardaí are now involved. I have no doubt they showed up at your door in a garda car with all the trimmings of "Phone your local Garda" etc written on the side. In years to come and when all this is blown over, you're the one who called the Gardaí. You may have been totally right, but that's not the way it will be perceived by the squinting-windows brigade. You'll be blamed for every occasion the Gardaí drove up or down your road. 

Again, my only advice to you (late as it is) to get your retaliation in first, a tried and tested Cork Hurling term.


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## Leesider32 (17 Apr 2020)

Leper said:


> Forgive me Leesider32, but you have committed hari-kiri as far as being a neighbour is concerned. I don't disagree with the lengths you have done to try to resolve the situation. But, in dear-old-Ireland things don't run as smoothly as elsewhere. The Gardaí are now involved. I have no doubt they showed up at your door in a garda car with all the trimmings of "Phone your local Garda" etc written on the side. In years to come and when all this is blown over, you're the one who called the Gardaí. You may have been totally right, but that's not the way it will be perceived by the squinting-windows brigade. You'll be blamed for every occasion the Gardaí drove up or down your road.
> 
> Again, my only advice to you (late as it is) to get your retaliation in first, a tried and tested Cork Hurling term.




Not worried about the squinting-windows brigade, they all know there are issues with her and some have had first hand experience, we get on fine with all of them and have discussed it with the neighbour on the other side of us so the story has got around.

I would love to get a retaliation in first but I strongly believe there are mental health issues at play here and that she feeds off this kind of thing. Trying to figure out what is going on in her head and what would upset her would probably involve me getting too much into character and I am not going down that road!!!


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## Leo (17 Apr 2020)

Leper said:


> You may have been totally right, but that's not the way it will be perceived by the squinting-windows brigade. You'll be blamed for every occasion the Gardaí drove up or down your road.



Wow, what kind of criminal enclave are you living in?   Why such dislike for Garda presence in the area?


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## Leper (17 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> Wow, what kind of criminal enclave are you living in?   Why such dislike for Garda presence in the area?



Fair enough Leo, we all like to see the Gardaí from time to time, but once a Garda calls to a house regarding a minor issue, it is not unusual for the remainder of the road to get up on their high horse whenever it suits.


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## Leo (17 Apr 2020)

Leper said:


> it is not unusual for the remainder of the road to get up on their high horse whenever it suits.



Ah, some people are just looking for an excuse to mount that horse. I live in close proximity to some people who would prefer the Gardai stayed away and have had a break-in in the past, so maybe I welcome their presence more than others.


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## Leesider32 (4 Sep 2021)

Hi all, 

This problem hasn't gone away for us unfortunately but without going into detail into what else is happening I have quite a specific question. 

Are there criminal charges we can bring for someone blatantly leaning over and painting on our side of a separating wall? I have this twice on video, also she has painted along the back of our fence and twice painted on our side of where the houses join. I caught her doing that once and she ran into the house. 

Thanks


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## bipped (4 Sep 2021)

Leesider32 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This problem hasn't gone away for us unfortunately but without going into detail into what else is happening I have quite a specific question.
> 
> ...


Is the separating wall a boundary wall or a party wall belonging to both houses and how did the neighbour get near the fence to paint it - did she go into your garden? I dont think painting a wall would be a criminal offence but other posters will know. Maybe a chat with a solicitor and a letter from them to the neighbour will put a stop to the banging on the wall and the other annoyances. You could also demand payment to repair the damage.
Somethimes neighbours can be very selfish and need a reminder that others have rights too. A stern solicitors letter may be all thats needed to sort this out for you without the added hassle and cost of a court case.


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## Leesider32 (4 Sep 2021)

To be honest not sure of the difference between the 2 types of walls but this one is a normal separating wall for 2 back gardens for 2 semi-ds, it is 10ft high.

At the front gardens there is a dividing wall around 3ft high, we put up the fence inside this at 6ft high, on our side obviously so clearly on our property.

She has also been abusive out her back window shouting at me, my wife while she was holding our 9 month old, and mocking my niece all at different times while we were in our back garden.

A solicitors letter was sent a couple of years ago but only stops her for a couple of months. As mentioned there are definite mental health issues and she won't stop unless there are serious consequences. I know she has a history of this type of thing in another place she was living.

Gardai promise an asbo but then delay and delay.

Eggs were also recently thrown at the back of our house but we have no evidence to prove it was her unless I was to get csi Ireland and prove the trajectory of the eggs could only have come from her back garden!!!

As you can see a lot of issues but trying to pin her with something that has serious consequences is difficult!!


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## blanketyblank (4 Sep 2021)

A nightmare for you.  Nothing worse than bad neighbours!    Hope it resolves


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## bipped (4 Sep 2021)

Shouting at your wife is upsetting for your wife and painting your fence or egging your back wall is definitly a bit odd. She sounds like a really difficult neighbour allright but you're assuming she has mental health issues when she might just be a really cranky oulwan. What kind of serious consequences do you want to pin on her? Even if she does have some mental health illness, there's not much you could do about it, as people with MHI these days live in the community the same as the rest of us. Maybe you could install CCTV front and back to collect evidence and send another solicitors letter with proof of the ASB and a threat of legal action if she doesn't stop.

Just as an example, close friends of ours had neighbours that were abusive, littering, barking dogs, loud music, late parties and general ASB, but the gardai couldnt really do anything about it except they called to the neighbours house a few times over noise. Our friends were tormented and eventually went to court, provided cctv evidence and statements from nearby neighbours and the neighbours denied everything and made excuses to the judge. They said our friends were exagerating, had a persecution complex, were paranoid and suspicious, and were completely over-reacting to the normal activities and noise of family life. They got a fine and a warning. Friends said it made things worse and they ended up selling a while later.
No mental health issues in those neighbours, they were just rude, selfish people who didn't care how their behaviour affected anyone else. Maybe your neighbour is the same and a court case will not resolve anything just make your life more stressful.


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## Leesider32 (4 Sep 2021)

Cctv is in at the back now, that's how I have video of her painting on our side.

Serious consequences would be one for criminal damage where she is caught on camera throwing eggs again at our house.

A number of things make me believe she has mental health issues, I have spoken with a number of other neighbours and they are in agreement.

Without going into too much detail she ain't an auld one and her mother calls around (half owns the house) and I have had a chat with the mother who is apologetic but does nothing.


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## presidenttttt (5 Sep 2021)

If there are mental health issues at play then it may explain why a solicitor letter hasn’t worked and why other measures have not worked.

In this case I think you will have to go back to the mother and explain that while you have empathy, you have had enough and the neighbour needs the right support and or medication, and that without it now this will escalate very quickly in a way that is lose lose for everyone. The mother needs to be left under no uncertain terms that you won’t tolerate anymore behaviour impacting you, and it’s on her to resolve it if the neighbour is struggling with the capacity to grasp that herself.


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## Leesider32 (5 Sep 2021)

I do agree but I suppose the question is how do we escalate it after this? Otherwise we are relying on the mother's willingness to do something about it.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Sep 2021)

Leesider32 said:


> I do agree but I suppose the question is how do we escalate it after this? Otherwise we are relying on the mother's willingness to do something about it.



IANAL, but considerations of the two options:

*Civil route*: you seek a High Court injunction stopping her from damaging your property. This may cost you a lot in legal fees but, if granted, would permanently prohibit her from carrying out certain acts to your property.

*Criminal route:* you turn up at a Garda station and ask to make a statement about criminal damage. The guard on duty will probably have no interest in hearing what you have to say so you will have to insist on making a statement. You provide all evidence (including video), you follow it up with a letter to the Chief Superintendent a month later asking what action will be taken. With this route you don't have much control how it will pan out. AGS may do nothing at all, may just knock on her door to give her a warning, or (unlikely) recommend a prosecution for criminal damage.

In the meantime document absolutely everything she does.


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## deanpark (5 Sep 2021)

From bitter experience my advice is you can't win this - I took my NDN to court over a noise issue. I got the decision in my favour in the district court. After that all hell broke loose as they extracted revenge in other ways incl. criminal damage to my property on several occasions (under cover of darkness). The guards were called but they c(w)ouldn't do anything.  A few years later we moved to a rental and rented the house out for 3 years. We then returned  after this period as we were sick of renting and there was no hassle from the same NDN - it was as if the break was a circuit breaker and they never really bothered us again.   But in Ireland don't think you will be protected by the guards or the courts. Just try to keep the peace !


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