# No Rent, Bills and Mute Tenants



## mick02 (25 Feb 2013)

Good evening all,

I apologise in advance if this has been covered but I've spent some time reading through forums but I can't find a similar case to mine.

I'm a landlord. I rented my house out to a couple in December of last year (approx. 3 months ago) As it was right before Christmas when the tenant moved in myself and my wife agreed to let the tenant pay 1 month rent up front and half of the deposit (big mistake in hindsight) before Christmas and the second half of the deposit in their January rent.

Also they moved in late one evening so I couldn't contact the utilities companies as they were closed. I left the utility account details with the tenants along with meter readings and they said that they would change it to their name the following day (once again a big mistake)

January came and 90% of the rent was lodged with Christmas bills cited as the reason for not pay 100% of the rent plus the second half of the deposit. We again gave them the benefit of the doubt and told them what they owed us in February. In the meantime the tenants wife sent us a rent relief form to fill out so that she could try to claim from the council. We duly filled out the form and sent it back to her.

So the due date for rent came and went and I tried to contact the tenants. Both their phones were turned off so I sent them an SMS with a delivery receipt request. Both parties received the SMS that I sent however I received no reply and no answer to my numerous phone calls.

I sent the tenants a message telling them that I would be visiting the property on Monday afternoon. When I arrived to the property all the blinds were down and after knocking on the door and ringing the bell I got no answer. I then posted a letter of non payment of rent through the door. As per the PRTB instructions I told them they had 14 days to pay the rent and if it wasn't paid they had 28 days to leave the property.

I called to them another day and all the blinds were up but once again there was no answer when I knocked on the door.

To top things off I noticed on Facebook that the tenants profile came up (due to me having his phone number on my phone) and he certainly isn't the clean cut person he let himself on to be when he came to rent the house. 

Now of course I'm up to ninety. I'm worried about what is happening inside the house. The tenants never transferred the utility bills to their name and we are receiving bills.

I know that I'm to blame for not doing proper background checks and for not ensuring that the utility bills are transferred to their name and I feel like such a fool but there is nothing I can do about that now. What I want to know is legally what are my options?

Can I cut off the electricity and gas to the house as the bills are still in my name or do I have a duty to ensure that the supply is available once there is a tenant in there? Also is there any way that I can evict the tenant sooner than the 28 days?

The house is fully legal for tax purposes and we are members of the PRTB. The PRTB say that we have to wait for the 14 days to elapse (which will happen next Monday) and then we can file a Dispute with them. I thought I read somewhere that a landlord can legally ask a tenant to move out if they have been in a property less than 6 months. Is this the case?

Anyway, thanks for reading this far. Any sensible advice would be much appreciated and if you can keep the "you're a fool" comments to a minimum I'd appreciate it. I already feel like a proper tit.


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## fear peile (25 Feb 2013)

Hi Mick02,

Well after going through a similar experience myself I sympathise with your situation. 
In answer to your question, you may terminate the tenancy in the first 6 months without having to give any reason for same. you must allow 28 days notice starting from the day after you serve the notice and must allow the full 24 hrs of the last day to vacate. You must copy the prtb example notice that they give on their website, 
http://public.prtb.ie/act.htm
also get a receipt of postage from post office.
There are good information links here also.

From the information you have given on your post I would consider it highly unlikely that the tenants will vacate after you serve the notice of termination, hopefully you will be lucky and they will leave without a fuss. Do not give them any more benefit of doubt, I did this in my case and wasted so much time. *Act now on getting them out* *asap and get legal advice on the issue asap* The Prtb is a slow process and people will advise you here on the pro's and con's.

I can assure you from what you have posted this is not their first time at this game and they know every trick in the book.

My advice *Act now and dont be waiting hoping that all will be ok.*

fear peile


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## facetious (25 Feb 2013)

Unfortunately, in all your details, you have not stated what type of lease you agreed to with the tenant - a fixed term or periodic/Part 4. 

This actually makes a difference to the process of eviction. And any eviction or attempted eviction without the correct procedures followed will entail a substantial award to the tenant even though the tenant is in arrears of rent and may have cause damage.

In the meantime, I would strongly advise you not to cut off any  utilities as this not only would be held against you in a claim with the  PRTB, but again, could cost you dearly in damages awarded to the  tenant.

The PRTB website is excellent for sample notices (usually with notes) for certainly most of the common reasons. It is vital that they are in compliance in all respects as set out in the RTA 2004. If they are not, they will be deemed as invalid and any action taken on an invalid Notice could cost you dearly (even if you believe the notice to be correct).

I would hazard a guess and say that what you have, is termed as a professional tenant - a tenant who knows his rights, the law and how to pull the wool over your eyes. They chose a time when you were unable to verify any references and probably a good sob story that they needed accommodation for Christmas.


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## mick02 (25 Feb 2013)

Thanks fear,

Yeah I acted quickly in getting the non payment of rent notice to them a few days after rent was not paid. I'm going to go ahead and ask them to vacate the property in the next 28 days. I'll send a registered letter tomorrow.

I'm crossing my fingers that they will leave the place in decent condition but I am fearful that won't be the case.

Thanks again.

Mick


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## fear peile (25 Feb 2013)

facetious said:


> I would hazard a guess and say that what you have, is termed as a professional tenant - a tenant who knows his rights, the law and how to pull the wool over your eyes. They chose a time when you were unable to verify any references and probably a good sob story that they needed accommodation for Christmas.


 
Agree on this


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## facetious (25 Feb 2013)

fear peile said:


> Hi Mick02,
> 
> Well after going through a similar experience myself I sympathise with your situation.
> *In answer to your question, you may terminate the tenancy in the first 6 months without having to give any reason for same. you must allow 28 days notice starting from the day after you serve the notice and must allow the full 24 hrs of the last day to vacate. *You must copy the prtb example notice that they give on their website,
> ...


faer peile, you must have posted while I was writing my previos post.

Your reference to the termination of a tenancy as above *only applies to a PART 4 tenancy*, *it does not apply to a fixed term tenancy*. Hence my query with the OP as to what type of tenancy he agreed upon with the tenant. Noting that a tenancy agreement does not have to written - it may be verbal.


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## fear peile (25 Feb 2013)

Mick,

There is a possibility that they will refuse to accept and sign receipt for registered mail on the assumption that they know its contents.
Best to post a regular letter and ask the post office for a receipt of postage. cheaper and you can use the receipt as proof of postage.


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## facetious (25 Feb 2013)

mick02 said:


> Thanks fear,
> 
> Yeah I acted quickly in getting the non payment of rent notice to them a few days after rent was not paid. I'm going to go ahead and ask them to vacate the property in the next 28 days. I'll send a registered letter tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Do not send any correspondence by registered mail -the tenant can refuse to accept a registered letter. The Post office does have another system (can't remember what it is called, possibly "receipted delivery" ), where the post office confirms that a letter has been delivered without the recipient signing anything.

Alternatively, deliver it yourself, posting it through the letterbox of the property and have a witness (preferably taking a photo with date and time stamp)


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## fear peile (25 Feb 2013)

facetious said:


> faer peile, you must have posted while I was writing my previos post.
> 
> Your reference to the termination of a tenancy as above *only applies to a PART 4 tenancy*, *it does not apply to a fixed term tenancy*. Hence my query with the OP as to what type of tenancy he agreed upon with the tenant. Noting that a tenancy agreement does not have to written - it may be verbal.


 
Facetious,

I stand to be corrected, thank you for clarifying.

fear peile


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## mick02 (25 Feb 2013)

Facetious, thanks for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

I did forget to mention the type of lease. We signed a fixed term lease with the tenant (a 12 month lease). They moved in just before Xmas. The issue I now have with the tenant is that they are now living rent free in the house and are not paying for either gas or electricity. I am loathe to continue for the tenants to live for free in the house. 

Considering that they have either refused to transfer the utilities to their name or have willingly decided against it then surely it is within our rights as landlords to cancel the utilities as we are not using them? This does not sound right that we have to continue to pay so they can live in our house.

Aargh


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## fear peile (25 Feb 2013)

Mick,

Have a read here on the Prtb site re termination fixed term tenancies
[broken link removed]


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## facetious (25 Feb 2013)

mick02 said:


> Facetious, thanks for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.
> 
> I did forget to mention the type of lease. We signed a fixed term lease with the tenant (a 12 month lease). They moved in just before Xmas. The issue I now have with the tenant is that they are now living rent free in the house and are not paying for either gas or electricity. I am loathe to continue for the tenants to live for free in the house.
> 
> ...


With a fixed term lease agreement, it only requires two notices (a Part 4 tenancy requires 3 notices) for rent arrears - 
Firstly, the 14 day notice, and if the rent arrears is not cleared in full, followed swiftly by the Notice of Termination. Do be very careful in completing the latter, as I know even solicitors have got it wrong and cause a landlord to evict a tenant illegally with an invalid Notice of Termination.

Even if the rent is paid in full during the period of the Notice of Termination, the Notice still stands or the landlord may, at his discretion withdraw the notice - but what landlord in his right mind would allow a tenant to remain after having to issue a Notice of Termination?



> Considering that they have either refused to transfer the utilities to  their name or have willingly decided against it then surely it is within  our rights as landlords to cancel the utilities as we are not using  them? This does not sound right that we have to continue to pay so they  can live in our house.


I agree, it does not sound right, but it is the law - look at what the utility companies have to go through before they can cut off a consumer for not paying.

never leave anything up to the tenant to do - they will always put it on the long finger, if at all.


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## facetious (25 Feb 2013)

fear peile said:


> Facetious,
> 
> I stand to be corrected, thank you for clarifying.
> 
> fear peile


You're welcome.

Much of the confusion comes from, unfortunately, the Threshold website and the Citizens Information website where, probably due to condensing a lot into a little while trying to make it understandable by the ordinary person, they often fail to distinguish between Part 4 and fixed term agreements.


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## mick02 (25 Feb 2013)

Thanks folks, looks like its going to be a long and stressful road.


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## mick02 (25 Feb 2013)

OK, one last question. I issued the notice of rent arrears. I copied a notice from a website and it says the following ...


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Tenant Name*[/FONT]

Address of property


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Date of writing letter[/FONT]​ 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WARNING NOTICE - Contravention of Tenancy Agreement[/FONT]​ 


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Re: Late Rent Payment[/FONT]​ 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dear Tenant Name[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This correspondence serves as a written Notification of Warning, as per the Private Residential Tenancy Board (PRTB) guidelines.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As per the terms of your Lease Agreement, your rent of €xxxis due on the* xx**th*of every month and your Februarycontribution has not yet been paid.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You are in contravention of your Lease Agreement. Please pay your February due rent of €xxximmediately.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bank account details as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bank: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Account number: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sort Code: [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Landlord will be forced to serve you Notice to Quit if you do not clear your rent arrears in full in the next 14 days and if your conduct remains in breach of any and all clauses of your Tenancy Agreement. Upon serving of said Notice to Quit you must vacate the property with 28 (twenty eight) days.[/FONT]




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sincerely,[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]___________________________________[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Landlord Name[/FONT]

Now my wife is worried as the letter uses terminology like "Notice to Quit" which she says is English terminology and that the letter is not valid. Is she just worried unnecessarily or does she have a point? ***EDIT*** Obviously details above are omitted like names and addresses.


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## facetious (26 Feb 2013)

Knowing on how particular the PRTB are in regards to all notices that have to served, your wife may well be correct as regards a Notice to Quit, whereas in Ireland, it is called a Notice of Termination (of a lease agreement, presumably).

Probably poor terminology by the Irish lawmakers as by name, a Notice of Termination of an agreement does not necessarily mean that a tenant should vacate a property, but would imply that if an agreement is terminated then the tenant should do so.

Having just checked the PRTB website for the 14 days notice of arrears, I note that they do not have one (or I wasn't able to find it as they don't have all this type of information in the same place). There is (or was) a sample on the www.irishlandlord.com site However, it is a very simple notice, requesting payment within 14 days.


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## STEINER (26 Feb 2013)

If the utility bills remain unpaid, will the utility companies themselves stop supplying, or will this take another few months to happen?


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## AlbacoreA (26 Feb 2013)

They will cut it off eventually. I don't know how long, as the ESB aren't going to tell a LL how long someone elses (the tenants) account was in arrears. 

You can't ask the utility companies to cut them off. But is there anything to say you can't simply stop paying the bills, and tell the utility company you won't be paying them. Its up to them if they cut it off. I suspect if they know there's tenants in the house and the bill is in the LL name, they'll happily leave it connected and bill the LL.


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## oldnick (26 Feb 2013)

Facetious

Can you indicate where "it is the law" that the LL must pay for utilities for tenants when those same tenants refuse to do so.

As soon as a tenant moves in I contact the relevant utility companies and tell them to bill me up to such-and-such a date and meter reading, after which date I'm not paying.
The tenants can choose which utility company they prefer and act accordingly.

Is that -really - not lawful ?


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## Harry31 (26 Feb 2013)

When we get a new tenant & they are moving in, we take the reading for the gas & electricity when they are with us, write it down & get them to sign it.  If your tenants haven't switched utilities over (which I think is what you are saying) & they were still in my name, I would go to the house, take the reading - try to talk to the tenants, but if they were not willing to talk, ring the utilities companies & get them switched off - informing the tenant what I had done.  I don't see anything wrong with doing that.


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## AlbacoreA (26 Feb 2013)

The law is bias against the LL and pro tenant in general. So you have to be careful how you do things.


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## fear peile (26 Feb 2013)

Quote "The law is bias against the LL and pro tenant in general. So you have to be careful how you do things. " Quote

Totally agree with AlbacoreA, make sure all your I's are dotted.


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## mathepac (26 Feb 2013)

AlbacoreA said:


> The law is bias against the LL and pro tenant in general. So you have to be careful how you do things.


It would seem from my reading of a very recent thread on www.boards.ie that this alleged bias against landlords is unfounded.


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## facetious (26 Feb 2013)

oldnick said:


> Facetious
> 
> Can you indicate where "it is the law" that the LL must pay for utilities for tenants when those same tenants refuse to do so.
> 
> ...


The problem is that the OP did not transfer the utilities into the tenants' name. Therefore, he is liable for the bills to the utility companies. There is nothing stopping the landlord from billing the tenants for the same bills as, a decently worded lease will say that the tenants are responsible for these costs, whether transferred or not.

However, getting the money from a tenant who is not even paying the rent may be difficult especially as they seem to be trying to claim rent on the SW.


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## oldnick (26 Feb 2013)

Mathepac -what post do you mean on boards.ie ?

I haven't read it but I'd need a lot of convincing that the law is not biased towards the tenant. 
Even this thread here is another example of how tenants can avoid paying and yet the LL has to tread so carefully to avoid upsetting the. The tenants here are stealing and yet the victim of their theft can do nothing except go thru a long winded process.
And, as I've often said on this threads, even if the LL "wins" a case aginst the thieving tenants actually getting monies owed is nigh on impossible.


As regards utiltiies -it would be madness for the LL to continue paying and asking these tenants to pay him/her. The utility bill must be closed now otherwise these tenants could b costing hundreds of euros more per month.


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## AlbacoreA (26 Feb 2013)

mathepac said:


> It would seem from my reading of a very recent thread on www.boards.ie that this alleged bias against landlords is unfounded.



You don't need to go further than this thread.


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## fear peile (26 Feb 2013)

oldnick said:


> mathepac -what post do you mean on boards.ie ?
> 
> I haven't read it but i'd need a lot of convincing that the law is not biased towards the tenant.
> Even this thread here is another example of how tenants can avoid paying and yet the ll has to tread so carefully to avoid upsetting the. The tenants here are stealing and yet the victim of their theft can do nothing except go thru a long winded process.
> ...


 
+1


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## Bronte (27 Feb 2013)

I cannot understand why the OP hasn't already transferred the utilities into the tenant's name.  At least try to mitigate the losses.


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## AlbacoreA (27 Feb 2013)

Bronte said:


> I cannot understand why the OP hasn't already transferred the utilities into the tenant's name.  At least try to mitigate the losses.



It should be impossible for someone else (LL) to put a bill in another's (tenant) name. Only the person themselves (tenant) can do that. 

That said the utility companies have a get out clause about transferring debts between accounts where it becomes unpaid. "If you have an account with us at other premises, we may transfer any credit or debt between your accounts"

LL should be wary that tenants debts aren't transferred to the LL accounts.


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## cremeegg (6 Mar 2013)

That link just goes to the home page. Can you post exact link


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