# Work Life Balance



## Tulip71 (3 Dec 2020)

Hi. Saw an excellent post on ask about money regarding work -life balance a few years ago. Wonder could anyone find it...re someone who had been doing crazy hours, then made a decision not to work late in the evenings etc and felt he actually got more respect from the boss/ colleagues as a result...happier home life too. Would love to read it again, show it to someone! Thanks


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Dec 2020)

Is it this one






						At what point is it not worthwhile to work fulltime & pay childcare?
					

Due back at work soon.  I will be paying nearly 1000 for two children aged nearly 1 and 3.   The childminder is very good so I don't mind paying her.   My question is:  at what point is it not worthwhile to work fulltime and pay childcare?  I am in a civil service job, earning 25K pa.  I take...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				




Tip: The best way to search for something on askaboutmoney (or most other sites) is to put the following format into Google 

site:www.askaboutmoney.com    work life balance


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## Tulip71 (4 Dec 2020)

Thanks for your reply. No not that one. It was a male who was suddenly realising that he was always working and spending little time at home! I’ll keep searching.


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## Leper (5 Dec 2020)

Hmmmmmmmmm!. This could be a good subject. I remember working with a girl who was working fulltime to make ends meet and although she often stated she'd prefer to stay at home especially for her children; her husband worked endless hours of overtime including weekends and thought his responsibility to his family stopped there and gave little or no help at home in any way. He was forever working towards his next promotion and attended university more often than the lecturers in his plight to look better at interviews. I thought it would all end dramatically and it did.


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## MrEarl (5 Dec 2020)

That same husband may have been working long hours and studying, to help build a better and more stable future for his family - trying to improve their financial circumstances, to ensure he could send his kids to college, held fund their retirement, maybe facilitate his former wife's desire to be a stay at home mum etc.

There are two sides, to every coin


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## Leper (5 Dec 2020)

MrEarl said:


> That same husband may have been working long hours and studying, to help build a better and more stable future for his family - trying to improve their financial circumstances, to ensure he could send his kids to college, held fund their retirement, maybe facilitate his former wife's desire to be a stay at home mum etc.
> 
> There are two sides, to every coin


. . . . . and a lot easier than looking after young children and showing responsibility. Great excuse though.


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## Jim2007 (5 Dec 2020)

MrEarl said:


> That same husband may have been working long hours and studying, to help build a better and more stable future for his family - trying to improve their financial circumstances, to ensure he could send his kids to college, held fund their retirement, maybe facilitate his former wife's desire to be a stay at home mum etc.
> 
> There are two sides, to every coin



If all the husband does is just provide cash and never has time to spend with the family, what is the point?  When you are spending about the same amount time with the nieces and nephews as the kids, you might as well just for get the kids and concentrate on the niecies and nephews.


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## Purple (8 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> . . . . . and a lot easier than looking after young children and showing responsibility. Great excuse though.


I found looking after my own young children a pleasure and a privilege. Working (in a job) is harder and less rewarding. As a single parent I have to do the cooking and cleaning and washing and ironing in the evenings and at weekends while still having to be able to do the parenting stuff like baking and arts and crafts and walks and chats and learning to use a sewing machine and all that stuff.
Most of the men I know would far rather spend more time at home with their kids.


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## sonandheir (9 Dec 2020)

This book really opened my eyes to how valuable our time with our kids is and the consequences if we don't invest in that relationship. 
When thinking of the work/life balance it is often the idea that we are providing for their future and the monetary side. I think it is good to frame it that way in terms of investing in their future. But the investment shouldn't be dominated by the monetary aspect, that is important but it should not be the whole. Quality time with our kids is the only investment we ever get one shot at. Fast forward 20 years, how much would you give to go back to now and take a few weeks out of the rat race to be with your family. Ask your parents what they would give for it, you cannot quantify it. 

This book focuses on boys, but the parent perspective is applicable to boys or girl:

The Boy Crisis :Warren Farrell


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> I found looking after my own young children a pleasure and a privilege. Working (in a job) is harder and less rewarding. As a single parent I have to do the cooking and cleaning and washing and ironing in the evenings and at weekends while still having to be able to do the parenting stuff like baking and arts and crafts and walks and chats and learning to use a sewing machine and all that stuff.
> Most of the men I know would far rather spend more time at home with their kids.



Title:-               Privileged and Pleasured
Paddy:-           Do you remember the pleasure and privilege you had forced  to give up your job after we were married?

Eileen:-            I remember the days well having to rely on your income only and you had to work all the overtime to get a hand on the ever increasing mortgage interest rate not to mention the real recession back then that make 21st century  recessions look like a doddle.

Paddy:-           When our first came along didn’t you just love hacking, scraping, disinfecting cloth nappies and washing them and waking every night to breast feed. Then you loved preparing the baby feeds for the next 24 hours. In between there were babygrows needing washing along with bedclothes for the cot and your daily walk pushing that row-boat with wheels. Baby had to be washed too. Didn’t you just love all that?

Eileen:-           Everyday was like Heaven. Not a minute to myself. The devil loves idle hands. I was delighted that I had given up my monthly visit to the hairdressers – too much gossip going on there. I managed my hair with the present of the hairdryer and scissors set you gave me for Christmas.

Paddy:-           They were great times, not a moan from you and I only visited the pub three times per week and I’d wished that you could have joined me. But, No 2 was on the way. But, you didn’t mind as tracksuit bottoms and sweaters really suited you.

Eileen:-           The paper nappies were great, but you thought they were too dear and we continued to use cloth nappies until after that few days where you minded No 1 while I was in the maternity hospital popping No 2. We didn’t see cloth nappies after that.

Paddy:-           (Thinking to himself, with elbow on knee and chin rested on hand) They were great times, Eileen (then having a light bulb moment) I think I’ll skiddaddle  for a while – our grandchildren will be arriving shortly.

Above is the opening sequence to the first play I've ever dreamed up. I don't see it progressing any further.
Main Lessons of Play:-(i) Eileen gets a raw deal. (ii) She is convinced her position in live is priviliged and a pleasure (iii) Purple . . . . sorry I mean Paddy wants to keep her thinking that way. (iv) There appears to be no end to the circle of privilege and pleasure which have taken on a whole new meaning.


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## Purple (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> Above is the opening sequence to the first play I've ever dreamed up. I don't see it progressing any further.
> Main Lessons of Play:-(i) Eileen gets a raw deal. (ii) She is convinced her position in live is priviliged and a pleasure (iii) Purple . . . . sorry I mean Paddy wants to keep her thinking that way. (iv) There appears to be no end to the circle of privilege and pleasure which have taken on a whole new meaning.


Was it set in the 50's, 60's or 70's?

You do realise that the world has changed in the last 30-40 years, right?
You do realise that women under the age of 35 out earn men by a considerable amount? 
You do realise that most men would love to spend more time with their children?
You do realise that if a parent makes the decision to stay at home and look after their children it is a choice; the marriage bar was removed in the 1970's?
On the rare occasion I get to drop my youngest daughter to school it is a privilege. Getting to collect her and chat about her day and the minutiae of what her friends and teacher said and did is wonderful. If people fail to appreciate the gift that is then that is their loss and certainly not something to moan about.


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## Jim2007 (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> Above is the opening sequence to the first play I've ever dreamed up. I don't see it progressing any further.
> Main Lessons of Play:-(i) Eileen gets a raw deal. (ii) She is convinced her position in live is priviliged and a pleasure (iii) Purple . . . . sorry I mean Paddy wants to keep her thinking that way. (iv) There appears to be no end to the circle of privilege and pleasure which have taken on a whole new meaning.



It seems you have quite a few lessons to learn.....


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> Was it set in the 50's, 60's or 70's?
> 
> 1.You do realise that the world has changed in the last 30-40 years, right?
> 2.You do realise that women under the age of 35 out earn men by a considerable amount?
> ...



1. I'm not stupid and I know my world changes every day not just in 30-40 years.
2. So what?
3. Many men would say that, but (read my lips) NOOOOOOOOO Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy!
4. One in two parents have no choice on the matter.
5. On rare occasions (your words) dads (sometimes the moms) get to act like good parents.

And Jim, believe me, life has taught me many many lessons and guess what! I'll learn more today.

[no offence is meant to anybody in this post]


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## RedOnion (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> 4. One in two parents have no choice on the matter


None of your post really makes sense to me, it sounds like projection of your own thoughts on the entire population. But to pick up on one specific point - where are you getting this 'one in two' statistic from?


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

RedOnion said:


> None of your post really makes sense to me, it sounds like projection of your own thoughts on the entire population. But to pick up on one specific point - where are you getting this 'one in two' statistic from?


I'm sorry that my post does not make sense to you. You're right though, these are my thoughts. I can't talk for the entire population but I can talk on what I see and hear. To try and answer your question re the 4th point above. If two parents are working and they decide that "junior" is not to be minded by a childminder then one certainly will have to give up paid work. Usually, it is the female of the species who becomes the fulltime parent. Eventhough the male of the species will have his views, ultimately the other parent has to come to terms with giving up the comforts of work. I'm not saying minding children is not "work" it is and largely unpaid other than the so called privileges and pleasures mentioned on this thread. 

[just in case, again I say that no offence is meant to anybody by my post]


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## Purple (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> I'm sorry that my post does not make sense to you. You're right though, these are my thoughts. I can't talk for the entire population but I can talk on what I see and hear. To try and answer your question re the 4th point above. If two parents are working and they decide that "junior" is not to be minded by a childminder then one certainly will have to give up paid work. Usually, it is the female of the species who becomes the fulltime parent. Eventhough the male of the species will have his views, ultimately the other parent has to come to terms with giving up the comforts of work. I'm not saying minding children is not "work" it is and largely unpaid other than the so called privileges and pleasures mentioned on this thread.
> 
> [just in case, again I say that no offence is meant to anybody by my post]


So your scenario both parents have a conversation about child minding and they decide that one of them has to give up work to mind the child. The mother is then  somehow coerced into taking this role.

The more likely scenario is that they have  a conversation about child minding and the mother says that she wants to stay home and mind the child or work part time or whatever. The father then supports her choice. In that scenario there is usually a whole social infrastructure for her to tap into. If the father stays at home he has to face "Mother and Toddler" groups and can tag along with the mothers for coffee after dropping the kids to school or, more likely, go home on his own. 
We have rightly changed the norm about women in the workplace. We've done nothing to change the narrative about "Mums" being the ones who raise the kids. Until that happens it's hard for fathers to take up the primary caregiver role.

I have always found it a pleasure to spend time with my children. Given that most parents, in any sort of family unit, have no choice but to work fulltime I consider it a privilege to be able to spend time with them during the workday when they are young.


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> So your scenario both parents have a conversation about child minding and they decide that one of them has to give up work to mind the child. The mother is then  somehow coerced into taking this role.
> 
> The more likely scenario is that they have  a conversation about child minding and the mother says that she wants to stay home and mind the child or work part time or whatever. The father then supports her choice. In that scenario there is usually a whole social infrastructure for her to tap into. If the father stays at home he has to face "Mother and Toddler" groups and can tag along with the mothers for coffee after dropping the kids to school or, more likely, go home on his own.
> We have rightly changed the norm about women in the workplace. We've done nothing to change the narrative about "Mums" being the ones who raise the kids. Until that happens it's hard for fathers to take up the primary caregiver role.
> ...



I'm just thinking of a fulltime parent (perhaps the mother of children) looking in on these posts. Nobody wants to stay home as each parent probably wishes to be working fulltime enhancing  the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. The situation arises and the mom is usually the person to take up the mantle of unpaid parent, mother and wife (there may be much peer pressure here!). 'The Man Himself ' advises her that she is getting the better deal and her life is about to become more pleasurable and privileged. I'm saying it ain't - the person has made probably the biggest sacrifice of her life and won't get a cent for it but will get the occasional pat on the back and a few pence to buy coffee.

The Mother and Toddler groups can tag along with the home anchored fulltime parent and share a table for coffee and enjoy the privilege and pleasure. Wow-weeeeee! She has arrived and is forever grateful for The Man Himself allowing her the money for the coffee. 

[Why am I saying to myself the unpaid fulltime parent is not getting a good deal?]


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## Jim2007 (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> 3. Many men would say that, but (read my lips) NOOOOOOOOO Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy!



You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not fact.


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

I'd love to hear here from some fulltime parents who have no part-time job or any earnings. I'm guessing that most contributors here are in fulltime paid employment.


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## Purple (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> I'm just thinking of a fulltime parent (perhaps the mother of children) looking in on these posts. Nobody wants to stay home as each parent probably wishes to be working fulltime enhancing  the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. The situation arises and the mom is usually the person to take up the mantle of unpaid parent, mother and wife (there may be much peer pressure here!). 'The Man Himself ' advises her that she is getting the better deal and her life is about to become more pleasurable and privileged. I'm saying it ain't - the person has made probably the biggest sacrifice of her life and won't get a cent for it but will get the occasional pat on the back and a few pence to buy coffee.
> 
> The Mother and Toddler groups can tag along with the home anchored fulltime parent and share a table for coffee and enjoy the privilege and pleasure. Wow-weeeeee! She has arrived and is forever grateful for The Man Himself allowing her the money for the coffee.
> 
> [Why am I saying to myself the unpaid fulltime parent is not getting a good deal?]


All parents make sacrifices. In a marriage, a proper marriage, or any proper family unit there is no "my money" or "your money", there is just "our money". If you are not comfortable with that then don't have children.

The parent that stays at home full time makes the sacrifice of not having the same career advancement during those years, although for most people who are not in the 1970's that parent reenters the workforce when the children are older. 

The parent who continues to work fulltime sacrifices time with their children, being part of their school lives and being part of that day to day interaction which usually allows them to form the stronger emotional connection and longer term relationship. 
Both parents get to spend the family income. We know that 80% of all spending decisions are made by women so the idea that stay at home mothers are being "allowed" the money for a coffee is just nonsense.


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## Leo (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> Nobody wants to stay home as each parent probably wishes to be working fulltime enhancing the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.



Believe it or not, there are lots of parents who actually like their children!


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## Leper (9 Dec 2020)

In the absence of contributions from fulltime parents who earn no salary let's agree to differ as I think this subject may not what the original poster wanted.


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## Firefly (9 Dec 2020)

sonandheir said:


> Quality time with our kids is the only investment we ever get one shot at. Fast forward 20 years, how much would you give to go back to now and take a few weeks out of the rat race to be with your family. Ask your parents what they would give for it, you cannot quantify it.



I had a glimpse of this recently as I spent a number of weeks abroad with work. I was absolutely dying to get home to my family. Yesterday I took a day off...a real one (didn't open the laptop until this morning). I cooked a really nice meal and when the kids came home I played chess with one and made pancakes with the other. We had so much fun. I think it's normal to get caught up over-thinking about money, career and "doing the right things" for the kids (activities, schools, trips etc.), when really quality time is just as important. I think there are very few people in old age would regret not having spent more time in work..


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## Firefly (9 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> All parents make sacrifices. In a marriage, a proper marriage, or any proper family unit there is no "my money" or "your money", there is just "*no* money".



Fixed that there for ya fella!


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## Firefly (9 Dec 2020)

Leper said:


> 3. Many men would say that, but (read my lips) NOOOOOOOOO Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy!


Kids can be tough at times, but you get out what you put in. Think you might have missed a trick there..


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## michaelm (9 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> 80% of all spending decisions are made by women so the idea that stay at home mothers are being "allowed" the money for a coffee is just nonsense.


My wife is a SAHM.  It's works out great for all of us.  She spends all the money.  I ask that we get reasonable value (not that I have to ask).


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## Purple (9 Dec 2020)

michaelm said:


> My wife is a SAHM.  It's works out great for all of us.  She spends all the money.  I ask that we get reasonable value (not that I have to ask).


When you get home and she's given you an ironed copy of the times to read with your G&T, while wearing the slippers she's heated up for you, you can inform her that she has your permission to post on this thread...of course that's after she's cleaned up after the dinner she's cooked and brought the kids in to spend their 15 minutes of quality time with you before they go to bed. It is the 1950's after all.


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## Futurelookin (9 Dec 2020)

Might I respectfully suggest that you're all wrong? And you're all right, of course. From your own experience, perspective and generation.

Just as an observation: I would say that when discussing "progress", "equality" etc. I think that some people can easily forget how it used to be pre- decent maternity leave provision and  view the stay at home parent role as being interchangeable when it really isn't - certainly initially. There can be a tendency to overlook the fact that giving birth is a big deal. A 9ish months pregnancy culminating in (hopefully) a straight forward, natural birth without surgical interventions (ever rarer these days), is a physical process which requires recovery, probably at least, 6 months. Biology matters and men's and women's roles for those early months, as a general rule, are defined by that. I understand and accept there may be exceptions for very many reasons.  

In an earlier job when I was a very young girl working in a very female managerial heavy business, I remember a company newsletter, congratulating the lady in question for being back in her manager's job 5 days after giving birth. She would still have been bleeding quite heavily. Her colostrum would have come in day 2/3 and her milk by day 5. So she would have been wearing maxi pads and breast pads for leaky boobs while being separated from the human being which came from her body. Happily, I don't think that would be the case anymore but it certainly featured in a lot of 'Lady CEO orchestrates mergers from her maternity suite', scenarios  in the States at the time and up to recently. The USA is more backward in all things work life balance anyway. 

Thankfully, we've moved on in terms of supporting new mothers and families and recognising the absolutely crucial role men play in children's development (over and above providing) and how good it is for fathers' wellbeing also. With all the rapid changes wrought by covid, I think it can only bode well for more flexible working patterns for both parents and as much involvement in the day to day as works for people. Choice, as ever, is the answer.


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## michaelm (10 Dec 2020)

Purple said:


> It is the 1950's after all.


More 1980's than 1950's in our house, and all hands on deck.  Madness at times.  Partial to the odd G&T alright.


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