# Transporting kids



## Tea & Coffee (4 Jul 2007)

Hi,

if i were to transport kids (and sometimes their parents) in my car for money- what sort of car insurance would i need? Would i be better off getting a hackney licence/insurance?


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## LUFC (4 Jul 2007)

Private car insurance specifically excludes use for hire or reward so your current car insurance does not cover you for this. If you dont have a taxi/hackney licence, you cant get insurance. Best bet is ring your insurance company for advice. I would stop transporting kids until you have the right insurance.


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## Tea & Coffee (4 Jul 2007)

thanks for the post. I am not transporting any kids except for my own at the moment.


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## ailbhe (5 Jul 2007)

It depends on the job and who is paying you. If for example you were a social worker (just as an example) and part of your job was picking kids up and bringing them somewhere then you don't need a hackney licence or insurance as you are not being paid specifically to transport them but as part of your overall job. You would need a higher class of cover to enable you to do the same.
But if you are self employed and charging people money to go from A to B then yes. you'd need a PSV licence and insurance.


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## Tea & Coffee (5 Jul 2007)

thanks Ailbhe! A higher class of licence...hmmm....well, it wouldn't be the only thing I would be doing- like it would be an element of the job-say, for example- I run a creche and as part of that I drop and collect kids from school... but I get paid extra for that....what does anyone think??


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## RS2K (6 Jul 2007)

Ask your insurer. My view is that is not a standard risk.


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## ailbhe (6 Jul 2007)

Sorry tea and coffee, I meant a higher class of insurance. I agree with RS2K, you should get on to your insurer. If you'v been with them a while and they're a good company they will probably let you do it at a higher premium. If you haven't been with them long or they're very strict you may be in a bit of a pickle! 
There wouldn't really be an issue if you were just carrying kids i.e a pick up from a creche but the fact that you are being paid for it may be. Our creche manager drops the kids to school if it's raining and isn't paid for it (just part of the job-no mileage as creche is very near) so it wouldn't be an issue. If the creche is across town and she was being paid mileage then it would be more complicated.
Try your insurer. They might be ok with it.


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## Trish2006 (6 Jul 2007)

Does that mean that if you were providing an after school service and part of that involved collecting kids from school, either on foot or perhaps by car in bad weather that you wouldn't need to change your insurance.  If you're being paid to mind from 2.30 - 5 and that just happens to involve a pick up by car some days would that be ok?  Whereas if you're paid just to collect a child and drop them home while you collect your own kids, that would be getting paid purely for the lift and would therefore require extra insurance?  Just curious as it's something I'd consider doing.


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## huskerdu (6 Jul 2007)

I strongly suspect that if you have kids in your car which you are being paid to mind, and pick up form school is included, your insurance company should be informed. If you had an accident, the insurance company could declare you uninsured.  Trish2000, I doubt your insurance company would see a difference between the two scenarios you outline, both include you being paid to pick the kids up form school.


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## Trish2006 (6 Jul 2007)

How come insurance is never straightforward?  It just seems silly that I can agree to collect my child's friend and mind him after school.  I walk every day and collect them but one day it's raining (obviously not this year!!) and decide to use the car.  So I have to ring my insurance company to tell them I'm giving a child I mind a lift from school to the house.  Or forgetting school runs, if I was babysitting a neighbour's child and had to go shopping, could I not bring the child in the car with me without approval from my insurance co. How is this so different from what ailbhe says "Our creche manager drops the kids to school if it's raining and isn't paid for it (just part of the job-no mileage as creche is very near) so it wouldn't be an issue.".  Why wouldn't either of the above scenaria be treated as just part of the job, if the job is to mind the child and it happens to involve you driving somewhere one day, is that not just part of the job.
I suppose that I'd just have to check with my ins co. but I wonder if I'd just be giving them a reason to up my premium for something I wouldn't necessarily need.


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## ClubMan (6 Jul 2007)

Trish2006 said:


> How come insurance is never straightforward?


If one reads the terms & conditions of an insurance policy document to ascertain what is and what is not covered then it's pretty straightforward. Unfortunately few people seem to bother and just sign anything and pay the premium.


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## huskerdu (7 Jul 2007)

Hi Trish2006, you say that "Our creche manager drops the kids to school if it's raining and isn't paid for it (just part of the job-no mileage as creche is very near) so it wouldn't be an issue.".  

How do you know that this creche manager has not informed her insurance company and is paying the appropriate premium ?

I am pretty sure that if she got into an accident with children in her car
who she is being paid to mind, that her insurance company would not be happy if she only had insurance for personal use only. 

As ClubMan has said, read the T&M of your insurance policy. It will make
clear what is covered. 

Anecdotal evidence is useless in these circumstances. If you tell your insurance company, and they up your premium, then you DO need the extra insurance, This will become very clear if you are ever unfortunate
enough to have an accident, 

You say  "I wonder if I'd just be giving them a reason to up my premium for something I wouldn't necessarily need."

If they say you need it, then you need it.


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## ClubMan (7 Jul 2007)

If you are concerned about your insurer overselling insurance to you then go to a broker who deals with several underwriters and ask them (a) what you need (b) where to get the best deal and (c) to explain the ins and outs of the policy to you. Certainly don't ignore the issue for fear of having to pay a bit more to ensure that you *and your passengers *are adequately covered.


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## ailbhe (8 Jul 2007)

Sorry Trish, when I mentioned my childminder I should have specified that in that situation you should contact your insurance co and advise them of it but I'd be fairly sure they wouldn't take issue with it. It varies from company to company. I have seen it noted on a few policies. Again, contact your co and check with them.
And they wouldn't be hiking the premium for no reason. Depending on the number of kids you carry and how often you carry them the  passenger risk is increased (ie if you have an at fault accident the parents of the kids you are employed to mind can -and probably would- sue. For which the insurance co will end up paying for)
I think it's better to notify them and be sure you are covered than try to get it sorted when an actual claim arises.


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## GA001 (9 Jul 2007)

'School-runs' are covered by most bog standard companies as long as you are not doing it for hire/reward, in addition you do not have any more passengers that the vehicle pertains.


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## FrCrilly (13 Jul 2007)

Tea & Coffee said:


> Hi,
> 
> if i were to transport kids (and sometimes their parents) in my car for money- what sort of car insurance would i need? Would i be better off getting a hackney licence/insurance?


 
Can’t answer your question directly, but make sure if you’re transporting children (or adults for that matter), that everyone is sitting on a fixed seat. If anyone is not on a fixed seat (eg sitting in the boot or on someones lap) and is then injured in an accident, you’re personally liable for their injuries, not your insurance company. (Republic of Ireland Only)


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## emck (15 Aug 2007)

if you are transporting kids in relation to your job even if you aren't being paid extra to do it you have to get a different class of insurance ( i think it's hire and reward). I had this out with my insuarance company and they insisted. I was giving piano lessons and picked the pupil up from school as I was collecting my brother from the same school. I said that there was nothing in it for me it was just a favour and they said it didn't matter they would view it as if I was gaining in some way. Hope this helps.


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## LUFC (16 Aug 2007)

FrCrilly said:


> Can’t answer your question directly, but make sure if you’re transporting children (or adults for that matter), that everyone is sitting on a fixed seat. If anyone is not on a fixed seat (eg sitting in the boot or on someones lap) and is then injured in an accident, you’re personally liable for their injuries, not your insurance company. (Republic of Ireland Only)


 
Maybe so, but remember the case that hit the papers a few months back. An uninsured driver had a women sitting in the back floor of a transit van, no fixed seating, he was drunk & crashed & she proceeded to claim off him for personal injuries, even though she knew he was drunk & the van wasn't insured. It was ruled that MIAB would pay her injury claims not the driver of the van.
Only in Ireland


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## FrCrilly (16 Aug 2007)

LUFC said:


> Maybe so, but remember the case that hit the papers a few months back. An uninsured driver had a women sitting in the back floor of a transit van, no fixed seating, he was drunk & crashed & she proceeded to claim off him for personal injuries, even though she knew he was drunk & the van wasn't insured. It was ruled that MIAB would pay her injury claims not the driver of the van.
> Only in Ireland


 
AFAIK In theory the driver has to pay out to the point of his/her financial capacity, at which point the Motor Insurance Bureau of Ireland (MIBI, who I think you mean by MIAB), have to pay out for the remainder. It wouldn’t surprise me if it worked out in practice that the MIBI just pays the whole thing. It wouldn’t be ethnical for them to make a negligent driver’s children homeless!!!!

Either way, you’re better off to avoid this scenario, for psychological terms as much as financial. 

(If you happen to know a link to this newspaper article, that would be appreciated)


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