# 103 months of mortgage remaining but only 40 months of earnings



## Lancealot (22 Feb 2016)

Hi, the situation at the end of my working life in just 3.5 years time will mean that I will have 5 years of a mortgage left with not a great pension to support the repayments. Has anyone got any helpful ways that I can plan to have my mortgage paid by then.
My pension will not come anywhere near what I will need for mortgage repayments. I should have moved earlier to deal with this impending disastrous scenario but everything seems to happen in a heart beat the older one gets. Thanks.


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## Branz (22 Feb 2016)

Pension lump sum?
Increase payments now?
what term is your life cover?


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## Gordon Gekko (22 Feb 2016)

Rent-a-Room relief (€12k pa tax free)?


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Feb 2016)

Can you provide some information 


Your family circumstances - married or single? 
Value of property
Amount outstanding today
Interest rate
Lender
Your income now
Your pension when you retire
Any other savings and investments?


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## Sarenco (22 Feb 2016)

Trade down to a less expensive property?
Increase your income?
Increase your pension contributions/AVCs?


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## Lancealot (23 Feb 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Can you provide some information
> 
> 
> Your family circumstances - married or single?
> ...


Good morning Brendan,
Thanks for your response. I am sick to the pit of my stomach, daily, worrying about what is coming down the tracks in about 40 months time. I have made an attempt (1) to deal with this previously but the person I spoke to in the financial institution who has my mortgage, I felt, was more interested in 'selling' me something rather than getting me to a position where I could breathe some relief into my situation. Yesterday I rang the institution again and asked for a meeting to discuss the situation but in the meantime I am searching for a 'peer' type solution as I guess that I would not be alone in staring down the barrel of this particular big gun. Will the information I post to you be in the public domain or for your eyes only? I have no problem giving any information that will help with a workable outcome.
Thanks a lot!


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## Bronte (23 Feb 2016)

Lancealot this is a public forum and everybody can read what you write, but nobody will know it is you, you just need to tell us your income, expenditure, mortgage, age.  The website works on the principal that people read your financial circumstances and tries to figure out solutions for you.  Have you looked at what other people posted in the money makeover section to get an idea of how it works. 

Please also tell us what the bank tried to sell you, what product?


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## Gerry Canning (23 Feb 2016)

Lancealot,

Not surprised some twit in a Bank tried to sell you more product,ie Banks  havn,t learned nor listened.
......................................................................................................

One good suggestion is to itemize for one month ALL expenditure, you might be pleasantly surprised @ the fluffy outgoings you can cut.
After one month look @ all providers electricity/gas/phone/Tv/home insurance/personal insurance and change where appropriate.
On retirement your costs might go down eg bus costs/car costs. Work normally costs money in snacks etc.

So after 2 months you will have a real handle on the size of issue.
..................................................................................................
Posters mostly don,t give their name , it means their advice is only( biased )by their own views and from experience most posters are very very helpful.

 I don,t see from your post the need to have (pit in stomach) I presume you have been a good payer for 20 odd years,so you will get a fair hearing even from a Bank.


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## Lancealot (23 Feb 2016)

Branz said:


> Pension lump sum?
> Increase payments now?
> what term is your life cover?


Hi, I am over borrowed right now. Loan repayments for education(current and historic) and day to day living, taxes, salary reductions have ripped the heart out of me. I have a bank loan for 6o months, a credit union loan for 60 months, a credit card balance. There is no good news in those couple of sentences. The bank, fair dues, (credit was never refused) has kept me afloat, borrowing though, as I look to the horizon is going to sink me unless I can build some kind of a plan and run it over the next 3.5 years. I have trimmed what I can. I cannot do anything right now that will cost me cash. The lump sum will deal with some of the overhang of the mortgage but it must also deal with the outstanding expensive loan balances I will have. 
I cannot do any grand gestures right now but hopefully a combination of sound advice from people out there who are similarly challenged might see me through.
Thanks a lot


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## 44brendan (23 Feb 2016)

Hi Lancealot. The position you are presented with is currently not a crisis one. You have not provided us with actual figures but your post above indicates that you are not in a position to overpay your mortgage which would be the optimum solution. Talking with the bank is not going to provide you with any solution as they are in no position to agree anything at this point that will give you comfort.
It's not currently a crisis as you have 3.5 years to come up with a solution that suits your circumstances.
In order for anyone to provide some focused commentary on your circumstances you need to complete a financial makeover. Additional key information would be your projected income/outgoings post retirement and amount of residual mortgage when you retire. Other loans that may also need to be dealt with at that time should also be factored in.


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## Lancealot (23 Feb 2016)

Branz said:


> Pension lump sum?
> Increase payments now?
> what term is your life cover?


I also have the mandatory overdraft and my cover for my mortgage is a fixed payment per month up to the final payment.
Thanks a lot


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## Lancealot (23 Feb 2016)

44brendan said:


> Hi Lancealot. The position you are presented with is currently not a crisis one. You have not provided us with actual figures but your post above indicates that you are not in a position to overpay your mortgage which would be the optimum solution. Talking with the bank is not going to provide you with any solution as they are in no position to agree anything at this point that will give you comfort.
> It's not currently a crisis as you have 3.5 years to come up with a solution that suits your circumstances.
> In order for anyone to provide some focused commentary on your circumstances you need to complete a financial makeover. Additional key information would be your projected income/outgoings post retirement and amount of residual mortgage when you retire. Other loans that may also need to be dealt with at that time should also be factored in.


Hi The monthly household income is from 2 sources and amounts to 5775€ the repayments to just loans amounts to 3883€. Bills etc are cleared as they are due and utilities are S/O or D/D.
Your optimum solution is the preferred solution but the key question is 'is there some inventive/creative solution out there' or is there someone somewhere that I can go to and say this is my problem these are the figures can I buy a solution or part solution that will lesson the pain come 3.5 years time. 
I cant function in a crises.


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## newirishman (23 Feb 2016)

Maybe an option is to sell the place when retiring, pay off the mortgage and buy somewhere cheaper / smaller mortgage free with the rest?


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## TTI (23 Feb 2016)

Hi, the people here will help to give you some clarity. First though you will need to find one of the templates in this Money Makeover forum to put down all your income and expenses. Then you and us will both have a clear picture.


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## mtk (23 Feb 2016)

Postpone retirement ?


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## Andy836 (23 Feb 2016)

If Lancealot is coming to the end of the mortgage (1.5 years left post retirement) then the bulk of the repayments will be principal.
1.5 years is 18 months at €3,883 per month suggests there'll be a tail of principal on his retirement of approx €60k to €65k. 
No comment made about pension lump sum. 
No comment made about the 2nd income which is helping to pay the household bills currently.
More details needed.


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## Marion (23 Feb 2016)

Are you basing your retirement on 40 years service in the public sector?

Will you reach the age of 65 on your retirement? 

Marion


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## Lancealot (23 Feb 2016)

Andy836 said:


> If Lancealot is coming to the end of the mortgage (1.5 years left post retirement) then the bulk of the repayments will be principal.
> 1.5 years is 18 months at €3,883 per month suggests there'll be a tail of principal on his retirement of approx €60k to €65k.
> No comment made about pension lump sum.
> No comment made about the 2nd income which is helping to pay the household bills currently.
> More details needed.


Sorry Andy836 when I must retire at the age of 65 in 3.5 years time I will have an outstanding mortgage in terms of months remaining to be paid off, of 60 months (5 years). I do not have a public service pension. I do have a pension that I pay into and I have done so but only since 1992. It is worth something, not a lot and therein lies the problem. I'm taking all contributors suggestions on board and I am grateful to you all for those suggestions. It is helping me to focus and to push on with finding a solution rather than languishing in  'what am I going to do'.
Thanks a lot


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## Dermot (23 Feb 2016)

You will I presume qualify for a contributory state pension when you reach 66. You will have your small private pension.  Would it be possible for you to find some part time work that would make up the difference between the 2 pensions and your current income after you retire.
Is your mortgage a fixed Rate


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## LS400 (24 Feb 2016)

If I were to put myself in your shoes, then your right to try solve an impending situation. Your 61.5 years young and hopefully will be employed for the remaining 3.5 years. The problem I have is, if you manage to honour your payments, you will be then 70 years young starting to only then, enjoy your retirement, but with what?? 
You shouldn't have to be working whether part-time or after 40 years on grindstone if you can help it.  
How much is the current family home worth ?, Could you emotionally sell it on reaching 65 and down size to free up capital?  
There is no point in me saying, change service providers and save a few hundred here and there, take the bus instead of the car, were talking much bigger decisions here in order for you to be financially secure in a few years time.


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## Bronte (24 Feb 2016)

Age 61
Spouse ?
Married

Two incomes €5775

Mortgage
Property value
Interest rate - Fixed ?
Term remaining 8.5 years
Repayment amount


1. Bank loan 5 years remaining
2. Credit union loan 5 years remaining
3. Credit card balance.
4. Overdraft

Cost of all 3 plus mortgage € 3883



Lancelot because of your age I'm trying to figure out your figures for you.  Can you tell me the following:

*Questions*

How much does each of the three loans cost
What is the interest rate on all loans
How long more will your wife earn beyond your retirement
What will be your pension in retirement
What will be your lump sum
I presume you are entitled also to the state pension? Is your wife also.  How much is that per person.
How much is in the Credit union
Were the two loans originally 60 months or is that now much less to go?
How much is your house worth
What amount is currently owing on the mortgage


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## Lancealot (24 Feb 2016)

LS400 said:


> If I were to put myself in your shoes, then your right to try solve an impending situation. Your 61.5 years young and hopefully will be employed for the remaining 3.5 years. The problem I have is, if you manage to honour your payments, you will be then 70 years young starting to only then, enjoy your retirement, but with what??
> You shouldn't have to be working whether part-time or after 40 years on grindstone if you can help it.
> How much is the current family home worth ?, Could you emotionally sell it on reaching 65 and down size to free up capital?
> There is no point in me saying, change service providers and save a few hundred here and there, take the bus instead of the car, were talking much bigger decisions here in order for you to be financially secure in a few years time.


Thanks. You are correct. I cannot see selling the house as a solution. I do not want to just swop problems. The reason and the only reason I am still afloat is because of the long strong association I have with my bank and their positive view of me. My most treasured possession is my credit history. But soon that is all that I will have behind me while in front of me is a diminishing opportunity.
The buzz word right now in Ireland is 'space' and for the first time in my life time I see it as confining rather than expansive.
I am looking over all of the suggestions made by the contributors and I am thankful and grateful  for the levels of interest shown. I suppose without getting too carried away with cliches I am waiting for that 'thinking outside the box' suggestion/solution.
Finally for now, just to say that I was always in charge of the finance in the family. I have made some poor judgement calls and some very very poor judgement calls over the years (to not have seen the mortgage elephant in the room sooner was major) but we are where we are (apologies) and now I need to plan a route out of the situation with that elephant on my back.
Thanks a lot


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## Bronte (24 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> The reason and the only reason I am still afloat is because of the long strong association I have with my bank and their positive view of me. My most treasured possession is my credit history. .



You are just a cash cow to the bank, literally just a number, of course they love you, they love people in lots of debt paying high interest rates and with a nice asset, your house, if necessary, at the end.

If you really want help Lancealot try and fill in the blanks on the summary I'm trying to do for you.


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## Lancealot (24 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> You are just a cash cow to the bank, literally just a number, of course they love you, they love people in lots of debt paying high interest rates and with a nice asset, your house, if necessary, at the end.
> 
> If you really want help Lancealot try and fill in the blanks on the summary I'm trying to do for you.


Great. I will sit down this evening and go through your request line by line and I will give you all of the details. I'll get this out of the way first though. My wife will be retiring from her job at the same time as I will be retiring (she is younger but says she will not work after I have retired   
.... Thanks a lot...


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## peteb (24 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Great. I will sit down this evening and go through your request line by line and I will give you all of the details. I'll get this out of the way first though. My wife will be retiring from her job at the same time as I will be retiring (she is younger but says she will not work after I have retired
> .... Thanks a lot...



No offence but maybe given your predicament she would want to get a grip on reality!


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## LS400 (24 Feb 2016)

Hi Lancealot,

I should have made my post clearer. You see I wouldn't be ruling out selling the house, and I dont see it as swapping problems. Maybe if anything, swapping a big problem for smaller problem. 
Its easy for me to sit here to make a suggestion as life changing as that about some stranger I have never met, and if the shoe was on the other foot, I would be deeply put out if I had to make such a call.
But, your health really is your wealth here. Sometimes going backwards is the only way to go forward. Btw, there have been poor judgment calls made by some of the cleverest folk out there, so your in good company.
You seem like a thoroughly nice guy and I hope things work out for you.

LS.


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## Bronte (24 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Great. I will sit down this evening and go through your request line by line and I will give you all of the details. I'll get this out of the way first though. My wife will be retiring from her job at the same time as I will be retiring (she is younger but says she will not work after I have retired
> .... Thanks a lot...



I'm very glad that you have decided to take the time to do this, we can then help you to help yourself hopefully.  Take your time and do it as best as you can. 

Stop beating yourself up about making the wrong choices financially.  Everybody makes mistakes.   

Your wife might need a good talking to however.  How you handle that is up to you.  My husband lost his job after working for a very long time.  He is now very happy at home and he deserves it and I'm continuing to work into my sixties if I have to for our children and to pay the bills !  He's way older than me too and I'd love to retire early.  Currently not able to do so but I'm young enough yet.  Golf is not for me.


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## 44brendan (24 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> You are just a cash cow to the bank, literally just a number, of course they love you, they love people in lots of debt paying high interest rates and with a nice asset, your house, if necessary, at the end.


I'm not sure how this comment is relevant to the case in hand. There is no evidence of any difficulties caused to the OP by his bank. Simply his income stops at a time when he has 3.5 years repayments left on his mortgage. The bank will expect the payments to be made as per the mortgage agreement. They will allow some flexibility in line with CCMA but are not expected to resolve this client's or any client's cashflow problems!!!


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## Bronte (24 Feb 2016)

44brendan said:


> I'm not sure how this comment is relevant to the case in hand. There is no evidence of any difficulties caused to the OP by his bank. Simply his income stops at a time when he has 3.5 years repayments left on his mortgage. The bank will expect the payments to be made as per the mortgage agreement. They will allow some flexibility in line with CCMA but are not expected to resolve this client's or any client's cashflow problems!!!



Because earlier in the thread he mentioned that he had gone to the bank and they wanted to sell him another product and it looked to me that they want him constantly in debt as he is profitable to them.  He was also under some delusion, in my opinion of banks, and their attitude to 'customer's  that they, the bank, were somehow his 'friend'.


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## Andy836 (24 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Sorry Andy836 when I must retire at the age of 65 in 3.5 years time I will have an outstanding mortgage in terms of months remaining to be paid off, of 60 months (5 years). I do not have a public service pension. I do have a pension that I pay into and I have done so but only since 1992. It is worth something, not a lot and therein lies the problem. I'm taking all contributors suggestions on board and I am grateful to you all for those suggestions. It is helping me to focus and to push on with finding a solution rather than languishing in  'what am I going to do'.
> Thanks a lot



Ok, I misread your timeline. Without a lump sum or high enough pension coming in you're most likely going to have to do either of (i) continue working, or (ii) trade down.

The problem with (ii) is you'd be paying fees etc unless you could arrange some sort of house swap with a relative although you're not going to avoid legal costs. I'd recommend continuing to work if possible. 65 is the new 55!!

Best of luck with the situation anyway.


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## Lancealot (24 Feb 2016)

Just in reading the last couple of contributions please understand that  I MUST retire from my job at age 65 and I have done the maths on this ... Come my 65 birthday I WILL have 5.25 years left to pay on my mortgage. The above is written in STONE .... Mill stone actually .. 
Thanks a lot


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## Lancealot (25 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> He was also under some delusion, in my opinion of banks, and their attitude to 'customer's that they, the bank, were somehow his 'friend'.


I know that the bank and the banking community are going to be part of the solution to solving my problem. When in the past I needed to be funded the bank stepped in and I was happy to go there and they were happy to help me. Dig outs were never part of what I resorted to when I was in dire need so poor planning and the fall out from same are consequences for me and blame rests solely on my shoulders.
I am asking about money and the management of diminishing amounts and opportunities, for the first time.
That time is now in short supply.
Every ones contribution  on AAM I respectfully accept and I can swop comments until the cows come home but hopefully when I put Bronte's list (all of my financial commitment, loans etc) up a banking solution can be found to a banking problem.
Thanks a lot


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## Nutso (25 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Just in reading the last couple of contributions please understand that  I MUST retire from my job at age 65 and I have done the maths on this ... Come my 65 birthday I WILL have 5.25 years left to pay on my mortgage. The above is written in STONE .... Mill stone actually ..
> Thanks a lot


You have to retire from your current job but couldn't you work elsewhere?  This might also solve the dilemma of your wife wanting to retire at the same time as you ;-)


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## Bronte (27 Feb 2016)

Lancelot I was just thinking about you and wondering how you are getting on with the figures, we only need rough ones.  Sometimes just putting all the figures in order can help to see things more clearly.


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## Lancealot (27 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> Lancelot I was just thinking about you and wondering how you are getting on with the figures, we only need rough ones.  Sometimes just putting all the figures in order can help to see things more clearly.


It is uncanny, great minds... I was just thinking about me as well .... I have just sorted my own pension lump sum tax free amount. The only outstanding item now is my wife's pension payment and that will complete the suite of figures that I will post for you. So on Monday I will lay them out and the moneycrats can have a go. Leaving aside all issues of lifestyle, behaviour and how we live our very ordinary lives 'here in the middle' I wonder if there is a genious/magician/performer out there who can juggle these figures to fit that fiscal space. 
I know 28 were crammed into a Mini once ...  . Bronte, are you that person? Thanks for your time, your interest and your help


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## Easeler (27 Feb 2016)

Hi Lancelot looking at your situation and I was wondering have you children and I persume if you have they might be getting older and in a position to help you out you should be looking forward to your retirement and not be stressed out I might be in much the same situation myself my property is the only pension I have and we are hoping one of our kids will buy it off us and build us something small on site we have a large mature site in an nice area look I don't believe in leaving my kids anything I will educate them and send them on there way I didn't get anything I didn't expect anything myself and I preacheate everything I have and worked hard for it and I expect my kids to do the same


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## Lancealot (27 Feb 2016)

Galwaypat. .. Thank you and welcome to the club. The only items that I am throwing into the pot on Monday when I post all of the figures will be financial assets and liabilities. I am looking for a moneycrat to come up with a proposal. The reason I am where I am is because of very poor planning and poor judgement. If you like "family" got me to where I am and I don't see a solution coming from this source in any case I do believe that someone out there has a financial formula that will be workable. 
I don't regard my situation to be unique, you, Galwaypat, are in the same situation. We are not trying to   Split the atom here and when the figures go live on Monday I am hoping that someone can engineer a financial platform that will launch me into at least a less stressful retirement that as of now I can only forecast as being bleak. Thanks a lot ..


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## Bronte (27 Feb 2016)

We cannot promise miracles Lancealot but we will do our best.


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## Lancealot (27 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> We cannot promise miracles Lancealot but we will do our best.


Thanks a lot


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## Lancealot (28 Feb 2016)

Just a brief update on the posting of the figures tomorrow. It will be 5.30 pm before I will have all of the information. 
Thanks a lot


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## moneybox (29 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Just a brief update on the posting of the figures tomorrow. It will be 5.30 pm before I will have all of the information.
> Thanks a lot




This is nearly as exciting as the election result, maybe we will have both sets of information at the same time


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## Cervelo (29 Feb 2016)

The suspense is getting to me


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## Bronte (29 Feb 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Just a brief update on the posting of the figures tomorrow. It will be 5.30 pm before I will have all of the information.
> Thanks a lot



That's good that you are still working on it.  Even compiling the data will be good for you, might give you a clearer picture.


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## Bronte (29 Feb 2016)

moneybox said:


> This is nearly as exciting as the election result, maybe we will have both sets of information at the same time



I hope it means we have a lot of people contributing to the solution.  It was an exciting election though, what a mess.


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## mtk (29 Feb 2016)

On your buzzers ! less than an hour to go


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## Lancealot (29 Feb 2016)

Bronte said:


> Lancelot because of your age I'm trying to figure out your figures for you. Can you tell me the following:
> 
> *Questions*
> 
> ...



Bank loan at 9.983% APR, 58 months, 825€ per month, loan amount 39000€
CU loan at 7.56% APR, 56 months, 420€ per month, amount of outstanding balance 17,000€ ... CU deposit of 3000€
Overdrawn 3800€ @11.89% (Bank) 
Credit card uncleared balance 3000€ 
Mortgage outstanding  211,000€, 3.7%, 104 months remaining
Value of house 410,000€
Lump sum tax free for me 85,000€, yearly pension would be 4,000€
Lump sum wife, would be 60,000€, yearly pension would be  circa 4,000€
I would get my state pension at 66. 
My wife would get her  state pension at 66.
My wife (God bless her) will retire in 3.5 years time as well. 
That is it folks in all it's glory. 

I hope I have not disappointed anybody!

There are some big numbers in there but also some big words and although the  numbers may be frightening it the word
OUTSTANDING that's killing me.

Thanks a lot


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## huskerdu (29 Feb 2016)

Hi Lancelot,
Thanks for posting this.
Another useful piece of information is
What is your monthly mortgage payment and how much is interest and how much is capital. It would be useful to make an estimation of how much equity you will have in your house at retirement


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## Lancealot (29 Feb 2016)

huskerdu said:


> Hi Lancelot,
> Thanks for posting this.
> Another useful piece of information is
> What is your monthly mortgage payment and how much is interest and how much is capital. It would be useful to make an estimation of how much equity you will have in your house at retirement


I don't fully understand the question. Right now I am paying 2300€ per month at the rate mentioned above, I don't know what the value of the house will be in 3.5 years time. 
Thanks a lot


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## Lancealot (29 Feb 2016)

Cervelo said:


> The suspense is getting to me


Cervelo and the expense is getting to me ..


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## moneybox (29 Feb 2016)

Everything added up you currently in debt to the tune of €270,800.  You have two lump sums to the value of €145,000 in the pipeline that will reduce that debt down to €125,000, that €125,000 euro will be further reduced by you continuing to make your repayments over the next three years. 

You will have total combined pensions worth approx €29,000 at retirement, it will be a very tight few years, however, there are ways to bring in an extra few bob, another poster above mentioned the rent a room scheme, it might be well worth considering that idea. 

In the meantime would you consider consolidating your loans to avail of better interest interest terms.  If God willing you fit and healthy at retirement age, maybe you consider part time work in a different area, taxi driving, or turn some hobby into a money making venture.  All in all I don't think you are in dire straits.


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## Easeler (29 Feb 2016)

OK if I may throw in my tupenc worth sell up pay off all loans rent something local while ye are working buy something small down the country for when retire you would be amazed of the value down the country 2 hours outside dublin


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## huskerdu (29 Feb 2016)

But, it should be possible to estimate how much capital you will pay in the next three years, and how much the outstanding mortgage will be.


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

*Income details
Net monthly *Income self Aged 61.5:
*Net monthly *income partner/spouse Age ????:
€5775

Amount of child benefit received (Should be €130 per child)  ?????


*Personal circumstances so we can calculate your reasonable living expenses *
Number of 12 - 18 years old:   ????????????



*Home loan*
Lender:  ???????????
Amount outstanding: €210,000
Value of home:€ 410,000
Interest rate: 3.7% Variable
Monthly repayment €2,300
Term left: 8.5 years
Problem: Only has income for 3.5 years
Balance outstanding at age 65 will be €133K (at which stage most of the payment is capital not interest)


*Credit Union *
Amount of shares €3000
Amount of loan outstanding €17,000
Interest rate: 7.56%
Monthly repayment € 420
Term left: 56 months (4.6 years)
Balance outstanding at age 65 will be € 5K

_Oddly the amortisation table I used said the repayments would be circa 360 a month, but it's the CU and maybe 60 Euro is going into the savings amount.  Therefore 60€ by 42 months is an extra 2.5K.  And combined with the savings in there of 3K this one is no issue when he retires.  _


*
Overdraft* - amount outstanding: € 3,800
Interest rate 11.89%
Repayments ???
Balance outstanding at age 65 will be €

*
Credit Card* - € 3,000
Credit Card - monthly amount you are paying ???

*Term loan* Amount outstanding € 39,000
Term left 58 months (4.6 years)
Monthly repayment € 825
Interest rate 9.983%
Balance outstanding at age 65 will be € 12K

*Other savings and investments 

Do you expect any lump sums in the medium term future? *
Pension lump sum 1 at age 65 € 85,000
Pension lump sum 2 at age 65 € 60,000

Income at age 65 zero for one year - this is a problem

State contributory pension 1
Private pension 1 €4,000
State contributory pension 2
Private pension 2 € 4,000


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

*Lancealot can you answer the following questions*:

Need wife's age
Need to know how much each of you are earning separately
Odd the private pensions are so low and exactly the same?
Do employers allow people to stay on one year to get over the appalling lack of income from age 65 to 66
Are your children living at home, what ages, are they working, contribution to the household income
How much is the state contributory pension
Is around 60 Euro of your CU loan not interest but savings each month?
Which bank is your mortgage with
Can you fill in the blanks /????????? in the table I did above


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

Mortgage 211K       will be  133K
Term loan 39K        will be    12K
CU 17K                   will be    0
Overdraft 4K             
CC 3K

Total 274K.  I'm guessing a lot of the repayments are going on interest.  That's a killer.
Looks to me in 42 months time that you will owe 145K.  Funnily enough that's exactly what you will have out of the pension lump sums.  That's the good news for today

*Income and Expenditure*

Income 5775
Mortgage plus term loan plus CU = 3545
He said he was paying €3883
So 338 is going to overdraft and CC.
Leaving 1892 for utilities and groceries

*Solutions*

Mabs
Rent a room
Downsizing
Wife continue working
One year extra working, or more, or another job
Other people in the house contributing. 

*Comments*

That bank loan of 39K is going to cost 10k in interest !
So many debts and such high interest rates, no wonder the bank loves you, an overdraft and a loan and a mortgage and no doubt they supplied the credit card too.
Amazed your loan with the CU is so large relative to your shares
It's a really good thing you have those two private pensions, that's = to 666 Euro a month on top of your state pensions
I used this amortisation table to figure out your loans in 3.5 years/month 42 http://bretwhissel.net/cgi-bin/amortize
I suggest that there is more to this story than meets the eye.  Is everybody in the household pulling their weight.  Is it a case of the bank of Mum and Dad.  Is it a wife abdicating all financial matters to a husband.  Is it a case of overspending by somebody.


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## Cervelo (1 Mar 2016)

If what Bronte has posted is correct, the issue I see is how you are going live on the state pension and your own pensions, this from what I can see is going to be considerably less then what you are both earning now. it would be a good idea now, if you are not already to track where you spend all your money so as to give you an idea of what you need to live on because going from a earned income to mainly OAP will be a huge shock to the system unless you are prepared for it.


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

Cervelo said:


> If what Bronte has posted is correct, the issue I see is how you are going live on the state pension and your own pensions, this from what I can see is going to be considerably less then what you are both earning now. it would be a good idea now, if you are not already to track where you spend all your money so as to give you an idea of what you need to live on because going from a earned income to mainly OAP will be a huge shock to the system unless you are prepared for it.



Well he ought to double check my figures, and I've posted a link to an amortisation table.

State pension seems to be 233 per week.  Or 1K a month, and his wife is also entitled, so that's 2K.  Plus their 8K private pension is 666.  Totally monthly is around 2666 therefore.  And currently he's living on €1892 without loans.  (I presume there is some tax though)

He should be absolutely sure that both of them are entitled to the full contributory pension.  And one does have to think about living alone one one's own pension, can be covered if necessary by downsizing.


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## Cervelo (1 Mar 2016)

Agreed, their monthly income would be €2666 but that would be gross, I wouldn't think the tax would be that much but it is still a factor.
Bearing in mind that €2666 is only there after the wife reach's the retirement age, this is something we don't know 
It would seem from their OD and CC that €1892 is not enough to live on each month but more info is needed.
I understand completely the wife's idea of retiring with her husband but the financial consequences of this decision might need further thought
Also to bear in mind there are changes to the OAP entitlement supposed to be coming in 2020, I doubt this will effect the wife's entitlement but no harm in double checking.


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## Lancealot (1 Mar 2016)

moneybox said:


> You will have total combined pensions worth approx €29,000 at retirement



On this point we will not be 65 together and if I understand the figures it looks as if I will be retiring on my own.

Thank you all ... I see I have quite a bit of work to do yet to bring some kind of shape to a possible solution. Please bear with me and I will clean up some of the requests for you.
I will update figures, missing and anomalous figures, when the fog lifts  ... Thanks a lot


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## Lancealot (1 Mar 2016)

Bronte said:


> *Lancealot can you answer the following questions*:


Thanks for doing the hard slog on incomplete info. I will sort out the info.
Thanks a lot


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## huskerdu (1 Mar 2016)

I hope that the information here has helped you see the situation with more clarity and that possibly its not as bad as you thought.
Its good that you are trying to solve this problem now and not waiting any longer.

Two things stand out for me

 - You need to try to get rid of the expensive loans as soon as possible.
- Your home is an asset which you need to consider using

You can rent a room or take in students for the next few years. The extra income would help you clear your loans quickly. This will save you a lot of money in interest payment and allow you to pay off more of your mortgage with your retirement lump sum.


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

Cervelo said:


> Also to bear in mind there are changes to the OAP entitlement supposed to be coming in 2020, I doubt this will effect the wife's entitlement but no harm in double checking.



What is this about?


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2016)

Lancealot said:


> Thank you all ... I see I have quite a bit of work to do yet to bring some kind of shape to a possible solution. Please bear with me and I will clean up some of the requests for you.
> I will update figures, missing and anomalous figures, when the fog lifts  ... Thanks a lot



Good Lancealot and please do also double check my figures as it's not easy doing it on a screen and with going back and forward from one screen to another.  I'm better on the back of an envelope !  I don't think your situation is as bad as initially feared.  When we have all the facts and figures we can see what it is best to tackle first.


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## Cervelo (1 Mar 2016)

Bronte said:


> What is this about?



The National pensions framework is proposing changes to the way contributions are calculated from the averaging system to a total contributions system for anybody born after 1/1/54.

From Citizens Information.ie
So if you were born after 1 January 1954, when you reach pension age, you will need a total of 30 years contributions and/or credits to get the maximum State Pension. You will be able to get the minimum State Pension if you have paid 520 full-rate contributions (10 years). The minimum pension will be one third of the maximum rate. You can then get a further 1/30th of the pension for each additional year of contributions that you have. The maximum number of credits that can be used in calculating your entitlement to State Pension will be 520 (or 10 years).


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## Lancealot (1 Mar 2016)

Bronte said:


> Good Lancealot and please do also double check my figures as it's not easy doing it on a screen and with going back and forward from one screen to another.  I'm better on the back of an envelope !  I don't think your situation is as bad as initially feared.  When we have all the facts and figures we can see what it is best to tackle first.


I am going to need to take a break from this for a few days.  
Thanks a lot


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## Donnie16 (3 Mar 2016)

Are your pensions defined contribution/PRSA or defined benefit? 

There is a court case at present challenging the forced retirement at 65 and it is looking more and more likely that in a few years employers will not be able to force retirement at that age. So don't rule out asking for another year at work and if yourself and wife both have an additional year's earnings it would help your situation.


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## Lancealot (3 Mar 2016)

Donnie16 said:


> Are your pensions defined contribution/PRSA or defined benefit?
> 
> There is a court case at present challenging the forced retirement at 65 and it is looking more and more likely that in a few years employers will not be able to force retirement at that age. So don't rule out asking for another year at work and if yourself and wife both have an additional year's earnings it would help your situation.


I'm working on the huge volume of stuff I got from contributors. I'm tired. I'm worn down and worn out.
Thanks to all


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## moneybox (3 Mar 2016)

Lancealot said:


> I'm working on the huge volume of stuff I got from contributors. I'm tired. I'm worn down and worn out.
> Thanks to all



You sound really stressed Lancelot and it's not good for your health.  You have three years to sort this problem out so you need to step back a moment and take some deep breaths.  Take your time with them figures and first and foremost be kind to yourself.


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## Bronte (4 Mar 2016)

Lancealot I fully agree with Moneybox, you take your time and have a rest and forget about this issue for a while and when you are ready you can then tackle it again, it's not as bad as you first thought, I'm sure you see this now and I hope this website is helping you to see that.  I also think you need to talk to someone, your wife or a brother or your doctor as these kind of burdens left on one person's shoulders can make things seem bleaker than they really are.  A lot of men in particular can be under tremendous financial stress because they have taken on that role in life but a burden shared is a burden halved in my experience of life.  Financial worries are exceedingly stressful and don't underestimate how they can affect you.


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## Lancealot (9 Mar 2016)

Bronte said:


> Lancealot I fully agree with Moneybox, you take your time and have a rest and forget about this issue for a while and when you are ready you can then tackle it again, it's not as bad as you first thought, I'm sure you see this now and I hope this website is helping you to see that.  I also think you need to talk to someone, your wife or a brother or your doctor as these kind of burdens left on one person's shoulders can make things seem bleaker than they really are.  A lot of men in particular can be under tremendous financial stress because they have taken on that role in life but a burden shared is a burden halved in my experience of life.  Financial worries are exceedingly stressful and don't underestimate how they can affect you.


OK. I think I am back on the horse. This evening I have a meeting with a financial guy from my lenders so I will post tomorrow the outcome of that. Obviously this meeting cannot be about asking for funding but just a route to travel to ease the pain of the inevitable impact of 'R' day.
Thanks a lot


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## Bronte (9 Mar 2016)

That's great Lancealot that you've feeling better about the whole thing and are back on your horse, I'm dying to see how the real financial guru differers in his advice from us mere plebs. (speaking for myself only, of course)


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## ixus (15 Mar 2016)

Is the large personal loan from the bank for an asset e.g. a car?

If so, I would suggest you downsize to a much smaller car. Even if you take a loss on the cars depreciation.


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## Lancealot (30 Apr 2020)

Hi Bronte and all
Flashback ... 15th March 2016 .... it’s now 30 April 2020 and the situation is grim. Income = 2458 per month  .... mortgage = 2435 (including joint life cover) ... cash in hand = 65k ... 4.75 years left in mortgage totalling 115.5€ k. .... we are down now to the bare numbers .... regardless of what I can cut back on or save on the numbers speak for themselves .. anyone got any suggestions not including selling up that will help me approach the lender to try to avoid the inevitable ... thank you .. Lancelot


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## dereko1969 (30 Apr 2020)

How about setting out clearly in one post (not spread out over a dozen like last time) what you actually did back in 2016 when you never came back to update the people who tried to help you then?
Did anything change in 2016 after your talk with the bank?
Is your wife still planning to retire at the same time as you (which is now presumably)?
List all your outgoings
List the entire household income and potential income over the next 4.5 years.
List any assets you have (car etc) that could be sold to assist in paying mortgage.


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## Saavy99 (30 Apr 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Rent-a-Room relief (€12k pa tax free)?



How many people if any earn €12k tax free from renting a room in their home?


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Apr 2020)

dereko1969 said:


> How about setting out clearly in one post (not spread out over a dozen like last time) what you actually did back in 2016 when you never came back to update the people who tried to help you then?



Good idea and start a new thread.


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