# Job terminated for theft



## legoman (3 May 2011)

Unfortunately my brother has been left go as he was rightly caught for theft over a long period.what can he expect?he has been arrested and given evidence and awaits to speak to his employers in the next day or 2.he has owned up and i dont know should i get him a solicitor or wait to see what happens in next few days?any info greatly appreciated.


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## pinkyBear (3 May 2011)

Absolutely get him a solicitor.


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## Woodie (3 May 2011)

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.  You seem to be a sibling worth having showing your concern for your brother in this way.  Families can't choose them eh?
Specifically, I am aware of a similar case, not a relative but related to a close friend.  There are a number of issues that can effect your brother now, it depends on several issues.  
a. How much is involved in the theft.
b. The fact that he has been arrested and questioned but I guess he was not charged yet?  The arresting Garda should have advised him of his rights.
c. Will the employer press charges?
d. Is the crime serious enough for sending to the DPP over an above the employer pressing charges.
e. Why was the crime commited, addiction, etc.
f. Any other convictions.

All the above will determine the course of action.  I would say that you would be wise to discuss with a solicitor.  Your brother may well be entitled to legal aid.   

In the case I referred to, the lad was given the opportunity to pay the money back, but was put on probation, nevertheless is now back working again and happy several years down the road to have a stupid period over.


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## Ildánach (3 May 2011)

From a social welfare perspective, he is also likely to be disqualified from a Jobseekers payment for a period of time, up to the maximum of 9 weeks.  Its not automatic that he would get the full disqualification but it is very possible, any extenuating circumtstances should be set out to the officer deciding his case, although as there is also criminal liability here, he should ensure that he clears anything that he is saying to the Department with his solicitor.

He should however make any Jobseekers claim as early as possible as the disqualification period will only start running from when he claims.  If he has the stamps he can claim Jobseekers Benefit, if not then it will be Jobseekers Allowance he will be applying for.  If he is a lone parent, then he would be applying for One Parent Family Payment, and the issue of disqualification would not arise.


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## legoman (3 May 2011)

he was like many under pressures of bills mortgage etc and took money here and there over a year and a half.it could be 3 r 4 thousand.he has asked a friend for a loan so he can offer to pay it back or if there was any possibility of them letting him work it off??thanks for the help.he is truly sorry and is so afraid of losing his house and family and had planned to marry in october.


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## legoman (3 May 2011)

would anyone here be involved in legal job and maybe have valueable info??thank you.


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## legoman (3 May 2011)

also it is the first time he has been in trouble and he is absolutely terrified of prison.is it a possibility?the guards said that it is unlikely but may have said that to keep him calm ??


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## Time (3 May 2011)

He really should have had a solicitor from the moment he was arrested. 
I would not let him speak to anyone else without a solicitor being present.


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## legoman (3 May 2011)

He has admitted it and swears to pay it back,i thiught was the right thng to do at least.im praying for him.


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## Guest105 (3 May 2011)

keep an eye on him as it sounds like he is in a bad way.it was stupid thing to do even if amounts involved were relatively small. Now he has lost his job and his family are in far worse predicament. Still I think if he can manage to return the money, his employers may take a  lenient stance with him. A solicitor is the way to go.


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## Sue Ellen (3 May 2011)

Does he qualify for [broken link removed]?


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## kickstart (4 May 2011)

Step 1: Get a solicitor involved. Don't wait. Take his/her advice over and above anything you get here. 

Step 2: Prepare to pay back the money. Discuss the mechanics of this with the solicitor. Down the road, he may need to demonstrate that this money comes from a willing friend, and is not leading to further hardship for someone else.

Step 3: Have the solicitor contact the firm, and handle the discussions regarding the payment, and the disciplinary process. Although your brother has acted in a manner that can be interpreted as gross misconduct, and most contracts of employment allow for immediate dismissal, this still needs to be put in proper context by his employer. In other words, they still need to communicate with him - providing the solicitor as a channel, and also as someone to accompany him to any meetings with the company will be helpful for both sides.

Step 4: The solicitor will need to talk to the Gardai, and explain what steps are being taken to fix the problem. The Gardai may decide to stop at a caution. This is more likely if the injured party (employer) is feeling good enough about the situation to allow it to go no further. Without them being happy at this point, the Gardai will not be able to let it drop. 

In general: if your brother has never been in real trouble before, and if he can quickly address the problem, I believe this can be handled without going too far down the route of a criminal prosecution. He must be very upfront with everyone though, and obviously anxious (via his solicitor!) to fix things.

If your brother cannot afford to repay it all now, and if the loan from the friend is not available, he will need instead to agree a repayment schedule. Once again, the solicitor should be very useful for this.

Good luck to you and your family.


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## legoman (4 May 2011)

he is terrified of going to prison.this is a possibility is nt it?i dont think he can handle that he is so sorry and knows he has done wrong.


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## kickstart (4 May 2011)

legoman said:


> he is terrified of going to prison.this is a possibility is nt it?i dont think he can handle that he is so sorry and knows he has done wrong.



To be honest - yes - it is a possibility. I think it is not a strong possibility, particularly if he faces up to the mistake and starts trying to remedy it. Nobody can give him a guarantee of this though. From what I read in the papers of court cases with amounts involved like this, prison is not a frequent result. If it goes to trial and conviction (which your brother may well be able to prevent with prompt action now) then I think probation/suspended sentence would be by far the most likely outcome.

Each case is taken on it's own merits in court. Other cases can offer some expectation of how it might be treated, but don't read too much into them - unless you are in court for all the evidence, you won't know from a newspaper article what finally influenced the judge when sentencing. With all that said, have a look at [broken link removed] for a description of a case involving deliberate theft.


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## Woodie (4 May 2011)

Honestly, take Brianb and others advice here and seek the advice of a solicitor.  Check up on the legal aid issue.  Your brother is remorseful and although considerable the amount is not huge to pay back.  You really need to get the solicitor and perhaps they can avoid this being prosucuted.  This often depends on the employer and how anxious they are to send a signal to other employees.   A reasonable judge may well decide that the remorse, paying back the money and loosing his job are enough punishment however you cannot be certain.
Pray by all means, but DO get him to go to a solicitor without delay.   Do it yesterday!  Remember you can be present with your brother but only if he agrees.


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## horusd (4 May 2011)

legoman said:


> he is terrified of going to prison.this is a possibility is nt it?i dont think he can handle that he is so sorry and knows he has done wrong.


 

OP this isn't advice for your brother but for you.  Naturally you 're very anxious and upset at all this, and you are being very supportive of your brother, but you need to mind yourself as well. There is a difference between supporting him and being "in there" with him in his very difficult position. I'm not saying you are; but maybe it's a possibility.

You can be supportive to him and maintain some emotional distance at the same time. Both of you being worried sick won't help, and it's possible you will lose objectivity just because you might get so invloved. Take a little mental step back, support him in dealing with his problems, whilst being aware that they are his to face, and you can't do that for him. Speak to a solicitor using brianb's excellent post as a template for dealing with this. I wish you and your brother well. And remember, this very difficult problem will come to a conclusion and life will move on, it won't go on forever.


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## legoman (4 May 2011)

Thank you everyone.he has to meet his employers at noon tomorrow.


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## kickstart (4 May 2011)

legoman said:


> Thank you everyone.he has to meet his employers at noon tomorrow.



He can ask to have someone at the meeting with his employers to help him.The choice of person is up to him - ideally a solicitor, but as it's short notice, perhaps a union rep (if one exists), a colleague or if push comes to shove, a friend with a good practical nature. I don't recommend a family member for the task.

Help in this instance will be limited: remaining objective, listening to the employer's side of things, helping your brother put his points across, remembering what is said and agreed by both sides (maybe taking notes).


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## Time (5 May 2011)

Considering there are criminal proceedings pending I think it would be wholly inappropriate for him to be meeting them. A solicitor is needed asap.


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## legoman (5 May 2011)

well he met them and they asked him about the incident.they gave him the option of being fired or to resign.he resigned.hopefully that will make it easier to move on and to sign on and talk to mortgage people for the moment.they didnt have a solicitor either.he agreed to pay back the full amount.hopefully when he does the guards will not go further.please god they wont.he has to live with the shame of it now and has to lie to friends and family that he was just laid off.thanks everyone for the advice.i hope it wont go further once he pays it off as soon as possible.


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## Ann1 (5 May 2011)

legoman said:


> well he met them and they asked him about the incident.they gave him the option of being fired or to resign.he resigned.hopefully that will make it easier to move on and to sign on and talk to mortgage people for the moment.they didnt have a solicitor either.he agreed to pay back the full amount.hopefully when he does the guards will not go further.please god they wont.he has to live with the shame of it now and has to lie to friends and family that he was just laid off.thanks everyone for the advice.i hope it wont go further once he pays it off as soon as possible.



Just a thought legoman..........when he goes to sign on... if he has resigned he may not get paid for 9 weeks. I know it's the last thing he needs to hear right now. Just thought I might mention it as he may need to consider how he will explain his situation to Social Welfare. He can go to the HSE I think and they will help him until his Social Welfare payments start.


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## legoman (5 May 2011)

if he says he was laid off how would they know he resigned...not being smart but how do they check it?is it the same for mortgage protection?


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## Berni (5 May 2011)

The SW will send a form to his employer, asking them. 

It won't make a difference to his unemployment claim weather he resigns or is fired for gross misconduct, in both cases he is considered to have lost his job through his own actions.

All he can do is try to explain as best he can, and hope they don't apply the full disqualification period.


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## legoman (5 May 2011)

i suppose the mortgage protection is the biggest worry of all


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## Ann1 (5 May 2011)

legoman said:


> if he says he was laid off how would they know he  resigned...not being smart but how do they check it?is it the same for  mortgage protection?



Yes Legoman as Berni said...Social Welfare will check it. He should go  in straight away and make a claim for Jobseekers Benefit. It will only  be consider from the day he makes the claim.  It's best if he is straight with  them....if they hold back the payments he can go to the community  welfare office and explain his predicament. On the mortgage  insurance....if he requests the application form to make a claim....he  will know better what the conditions are. If the mortgage insurance does not come through for him....he may qualify for Mortgage Interest Supplement.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/unemployed.aspx


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## legoman (7 May 2011)

afaik if you resign or get fired payment protection will be refused....will bank check with old employers too???


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## Time (7 May 2011)

Most likely they would.


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## bacchus (7 May 2011)

Time said:


> He really should have had a solicitor from the moment he was arrested.
> I would not let him speak to anyone else without a solicitor being present.


The man stole money to pay his bills. How is he going to pay a solicitor few 100s an hour?


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## Time (7 May 2011)

Legal aid.


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## legoman (9 May 2011)

Hi all
Well he is going to pay back what he owes tomorrow to his work.Anyone shed light on the situation of he was not paid for his last weeks work or the week in hand worked?i thought no way will he get that but he said his wife wants him to ask about it?should he?


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## Guest105 (9 May 2011)

I reckon they will pay him what he is owed, they shouldn't be a problem there at all.


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## legoman (10 May 2011)

Hopefully but im not optimistic about it tbh.


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## allie12 (10 May 2011)

Under the Payment of Wages Act, the company must pay him any salary that is outstanding and also any holidays that have been worked up. They legally cannot hold any payment from him, especially under the conditions of his resignation.

He could cite extreme circumstances, and as he is paying back what is owed. Just out of curiousty did they have a proper investigation or was there CCTV evidence etc?


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## legoman (10 May 2011)

Proper investigation with the guards.he paid back today and he said they were pleasant through it all even saying a man should not be painted badly over 1 mistake in life.they said he could put them down for a ref but they would have to honestly answer any questions they got so its a big decision to put them down or not.they are going to pay him a weeks wages.the hols start from march so i think the day off for good friday would have used that up.i just hope since he has paid back and they do seem happy with that,that it will not mean a sentence from a court.That is what he is petrified of as it will practically kill any chance of a job even more so in these difficult times.I m glad they,in a way,are looking at it as he made a mistake and has paid back plus losing job,house and possibly family is enough punishment and without saying it,that everyone deserves a second chance.


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