# e-lottery



## fintano123 (15 Mar 2006)

Does anyone know about the e-lottery scheme? They claim to be a sydicate for UK and Euro lotteries but sound more like pyramid scheme.
They produce an expensive DVD to advertise the concept, so obviously somebody is making money.
The idea is to set up syndicates of 49 (for UK) or 36 (for Euromillions) and greatly increase the chance of winning. The person who starts the syndicate gets a percentage of everything that all other members contribute.


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## DrMoriarty (15 Mar 2006)

A quick Google for throws up lots of interesting links...

Here's their own .


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## RainyDay (17 Mar 2006)

fintano123 said:
			
		

> The idea is to set up syndicates of 49 (for UK) or 36 (for Euromillions) and greatly increase the chance of winning.


The increased chance of winning is cancelled out by the reduced winnings (when you divide up your winnings among the syndicate). Why not just play the Irish lotto instead of the Euro lotto - you've a greater chance of winning (because the number of players is much smaller) but the jackpot is correspondingly lower.


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## bobboy (25 Mar 2006)

I have been involved in this business for a while now, and it is far from a scam. Our syndicate has produced many winners, and some people are earning full time incomes from building large teams with this business. When people dont understand things they are quick to judge them. I suppose its natural. But this business will be about for many years to come.


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## RainyDay (26 Mar 2006)

Hi Bobboy - Please do explain to the ignorami here in AAM how this works. Please explain how anyone can add enough value to a simple sydication exercise to generate a full-time income? Please explain the maths of how your winning chances are diluted by the number of members in the scheme?


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## bobboy (26 Mar 2006)

You pay £5 a week for to play the english lottery. You are given 2 lines and are part of a 49 syndicate. If you introduce people to play also, you recieve commission on a monthly basis. We have had some great wins. It increases your chances of winning a prize. Yes the prize must be divided, but people are winning 5,5, and 7 grand, and also some major prizes. Your are also guaranteed the 6th ball and the bonus ball. Some people have teams with thousands of players and are earning between 10 and 20 grand a month. Plenty people have smaller teams and earns hundrers of euro a month. Its a very system and its becoming very popular.


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## RainyDay (26 Mar 2006)

Hi Bobboy - Please explain further what you mean by 'are also guaranteed the 6th ball and the bonus ball'. Please clarify when you say that 'people are winning 5 grand or 7 grand', are you referring to this amount as a syndicate win or individual wins.

The UK lottery is normally £1 per line - so with your system, you are getting 2 lines in 2 draws. I presume the other £1 is going fund the commissions and 'full time incomes' that you mention. This is an immediate 25% fee on your investment - In paying this fee, you have just reduced your chances of winning by 20%. You could increase your chances of winning by simply playing the extra £1 to buy an extra line instead of paying out this in fees.

Your quoted '10 to 20 grand a month' isn't really all that impressive for teams of 'thousands of players', as it equates to £10 or £20 per person per month (or less if more than 1000 players). And this is for a payout of £20-£25 per month! I'm not clear at all why you think this is a great system.

Your syndicate of 50 players each playing £2 per draw gives you 100 lines. The quoted odds for winning are as follows;


> Jackpot, Match 6 main numbers 1 in 13,983,816 £2,000,000
> Match 5 main numbers + the bonus 1 in 2,330,636 £100,000
> Match 5 main numbers 1 in 55,492 £1,500
> Match 4 main numbers 1 in 1,033 £60
> Match 3 main numbers 1 in 57 £10



Your quoted win figures would seem to indicate that any team winning regular prizes of 5 grand is extremely lucky.


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

The facts are all on the following website www.v-w-d.com/bigbusiness

You can view information on how the system works, and information on past winnings, etc.


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## MagicMoose (27 Mar 2006)

Sounds like a scam to me. They claim you join a 49 player "syndicate", but that's so each of you in the pod gets a unique number between 1 & 49 and shares the other 5. Duh, amazing system they have there. So it might reduce the odds of winning but it also cuts your winnings by 1/49th. Great. So what we have here is a system where you statistically no more likely to win than if you bought £49 tickets of your own. Well actually, you are as we'll see.

Secondly, this whole business of £5 for entry into 2 draws. At a pound a line, where does the other £3 (x49 players) go? And then there's a £4.99 fee for joining.

So your £2 gives you the thrilling chance to win 1/49th of what you'd win by yourself and the remaining £3 disappears as if by magic. Methinks you'd be two and a half times more likely to win if you just bought £5 of tickets, or £50 of tickets every 10 weeks.

Worse yet, the real "product" is that tab at the top saying "business opportunity". After a bit of searching we see it is nothing but an MLM and part of that £3 is given to the tiers above you and the rest is the skim. I wonder how large a 7 deep pyramid with 49 players in each syndicate is anyway... I wonder if I recruit someone who recruits someone, does that count as two layers beneath me, or do I have to wait for the whole row to fill up as in most matrix schemes... I wonder how many people would you need to recruit to recoup just that £3 you're losing each week. Would it be a surprise if the scheme's founder + buddies occupied the top niches in this scam, er I mean scheme? Questions, questions...

Like most MLMs it's dressed up as an amazing product, but it costs more money than you could just buy it for in any shop. Instead of being a "smarter way to play", it seems like a mugs game. It's no wonder the whole site is dressed up like a page from a tabloid. The sparkly graphics certainly convinced me.


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## CCOVICH (27 Mar 2006)

I would certainly advise that people think long and hard before 'investing' in such a scheme.  If the amounts invloved are significant, it may be prudent to seek professional advice on the matter.


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

If you introduce 5 people to play, then your are in effect playing for free. I have done this. I am now playing the uk lotto and the euro millions lotto for free! There is no hidden secrets. You have a higher chance of winning a prize in the uk lotto and the euro millions lotto. Yes, the business is marketed through Network Marketing. This is perfectly legal, and has been around for over 30 years. 

Yes, you have to share the prize with a syndicate of 49. But sure if your playing for free, why is this a negative thing? It's not! Example. A syndicate won £171,000 on the uk lotto. They each got £3500! And they didint even have to pay for their tickets!

I think it's a great system! You will always have your skeptics who claim everything is scam. But the only people involved in this syndicate are people who actually sign up. They agree to sign up and are happy to recommend it to 5 people and play for free. Believe it or not, there are many people playing who are happy to pay and not bother introducing others!

When you look at this with an open mind and see the facts, there is nothing to fear. It's actually a great success so far, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have signed up from more than 130 countries!

Easy to say scam, but harder to look at something without putting it down.


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

CCOVICH said:
			
		

> I would certainly advise that people think long and hard before 'investing' in such a scheme. If the amounts invloved are significant, it may be prudent to seek professional advice on the matter.


 
I play the uk lotto and the euro millions lotto for a cost of zero a week!


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## ClubMan (27 Mar 2006)

bobboy said:
			
		

> Yes, the business is marketed through Network Marketing. This is perfectly legal, and has been around for over 30 years.


The _UK National Lottery_ was only established in 1994!


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> The _UK National Lottery_ was only established in 1994!


 
I am referring to "Network Marketing" being around for over 30 years.


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> A quick Google for throws up lots of interesting links...


I see  is an old hand at [broken link removed]. Must be his 'success-driven personality'... 

I suppose I'm just as narrow-minded as these guys?

bobboy, if you keep promoting this scheme you will be banned.


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> I see  is an old hand at [broken link removed]. Must be his 'success-driven personality'...
> 
> bobboy, if you keep promoting this scheme you will be banned.


 
Tom Brodie has nothing to do with this. Your google search may have thrown up information about Tom Brodie and Global Lotto, which is nothing to do with Virtual World Direct. So you shouldnt always relay on the first thing you read on a google search, as you can as proven end up with incorrect information and be totally mis-informed.


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> Here's their own .


bobboy, the only misinformation around here is coming from you.


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## bobboy (27 Mar 2006)

There is no mis-guided information on this thread from me. But there is from you. And that is a fact!


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## ClubMan (27 Mar 2006)

bobboy said:
			
		

> Tom Brodie has nothing to do with this.


How do you explain  so?


> I'm Tom Brodie, speaking for myself and my business partner and E-Lottery co-founder, Len Fitzgerald.


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

Bye-bye, bobboy...


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## Howitzer (27 Mar 2006)

Busted!


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## MagicMoose (27 Mar 2006)

bobboy said:
			
		

> If you introduce 5 people to play, then your are in effect playing for free. I have done this. I am now playing the uk lotto and the euro millions lotto for free! There is no hidden secrets. You have a higher chance of winning a prize in the uk lotto and the euro millions lotto. Yes, the business is marketed through Network Marketing. This is perfectly legal, and has been around for over 30 years.


So there are no hidden secrets? Where does it say plainly where the rest of your £3 goes? Where does it say that your chances of winning a prize are actually 2.5x worse than if everyone bought £5 of tickets?

As for playing for free - only if you find 5 stupid others to take your place in the scheme. Assuming £1 of the £3 goes as commission, that still leaves another £2 unaccounted for. Let's generously assume another £1 is nibbled by commission, that still leaves a pound profit for this site to do essentially nothing.



			
				bobboy said:
			
		

> Yes, you have to share the prize with a syndicate of 49. But sure if your playing for free, why is this a negative thing? It's not! Example. A syndicate won £171,000 on the uk lotto. They each got £3500! And they didint even have to pay for their tickets!


You only play for free when you recruit 5 more. Certainly it's not pyramid scheme levels of stupidity, but £265 (5 * 52 + 4.99) is still a substantial sum.



			
				bobboy said:
			
		

> I think it's a great system! You will always have your skeptics who claim everything is scam. But the only people involved in this syndicate are people who actually sign up. They agree to sign up and are happy to recommend it to 5 people and play for free. Believe it or not, there are many people playing who are happy to pay and not bother introducing others!


Skeptics don't claim everything is a scam. A scheme that allows you to spend £5 to buy £2 worth of product and then must pass this overhead onto others to offset your burden sure sounds like one. The only way it is a great system if you can compartmentalise the immorality of that basic fact.



			
				bobboy said:
			
		

> When you look at this with an open mind and see the facts, there is nothing to fear. It's actually a great success so far, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have signed up from more than 130 countries!


An open mind should not be so open that your brains fall out.



			
				bobboy said:
			
		

> Easy to say scam, but harder to look at something without putting it down.



Actually I did look at it. Once you brush aside all the promises of riches, it is exposed for what it is. I wonder if with the amount of cash you claim this scheme is hauling in why they even bother buying lottery tickets for everyone. As their headquarters are situated in the Isle of Man perhaps they don't even bother and use statistics to pay out themselves.


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## CCOVICH (27 Mar 2006)

MagicMoose said:
			
		

> An open mind should not be so open that your brains fall out.


 
Possibly the funniest thing I have heard on AAM for a while, and the most sensible thing said on this thread  .


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## edel1876 (27 Mar 2006)

I joined this scheme a number of months ago and was very skeptical. But since joining I had several wins of significant amount ( in the hundreds of euro categories) and I play for free because I introduced 5 of my friends to it. I could not fault it.


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## ninsaga (27 Mar 2006)

edel1876 said:
			
		

> I joined this scheme a number of months ago and was very skeptical. But since joining I had several wins of significant amount ( in the hundreds of euro categories) and I play for free because I introduced 5 of my friends to it. I could not fault it.



you play fore free...or is it that your friends are really paying for you to play?


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## edel1876 (27 Mar 2006)

Yeah, I receive a £1 commission of everyone I introduce on a weekly basis. My friends also have the opportunity to introduce 5 people.


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## ClubMan (27 Mar 2006)

Hmmm... a newly registered user singing the praises of_ e-lottery _after _bobboy _went quiet in the face of incontrovertible evidence that he (and not others as he accused) was talking rubbish and who shares the same _IP _address with _bobboy _which is used by no other _AAM _users. Draw your own conclusions folks...


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

Oh, I have... 

edel1876 banned.


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## ninsaga (27 Mar 2006)

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> Oh, I have...
> 
> edel1876 banned.




...gee and it was just about to look really convincing


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

Sorry to spoil the fun!


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## MagicMoose (27 Mar 2006)

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> Sorry to spoil the fun!



Some scammers use the names of real people to make the email seem more legitimate. So while I think e-Lottery is a MLM / Pyramid scam (be it a legal one or not), I wouldn't put it past some 419 spammer to have gotten his name after cutting and pasting a few salient details from their web site.


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## DrMoriarty (27 Mar 2006)

Point taken; I've removed the text of that letter which, as you say, may or may not genuinely have been sent by Tom Brodie...


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## Plank (1 May 2006)

Hi there,

I've signed up *just* so I can reply to this thread which was pointed out to me by a friend.

Now I realise I might get banned immediately, but I thought it was well worth 10 minutes to sign up and post here. 

I found VWD at Christmas 2005 and immediately thought "yeah, right, there goes a pig flying past". I then closed the page and in February 2006, I spotted them again, so I had a closer look as I can't say I wasn't interested the first time round. But you know what they say "if it looks too good to be true, then it is."

The thing is, after another couple of months of looking, and checking their maths, and looking some more, I really do think they're totally legit. Which is why I signed up on Good Friday.

I had to spend the time checking them out to my satisfaction, because I knew if I was going to get involved in this, I wanted to be on 20 foot of concrete. ESPECIALLY if I was going to get my friends and family to join. There's no way I wanted to encourage people close to me to join a scam.

Anyway, I've started to write up my take on the whole thing. I'm not going to post the link here, because it's not fair, and I certainly don't want to be accused of spamming my member details. But if anyone does want to take a look at it, just PM me and I'll send you the link. 

I welcome anyone pointing out anything wrong as it will allow me to correct my errors, and who knows it may even make me change my mind about the whole thing. I always think it's too easy to start flaming, when really what's needed is a bit of discussion to get to the bottom of things. Hehe.

I do have an open mind, but it isn't too open as someone here has said. 

I would just like to address a couple of things I noticed in this thread though.

1) Dr. Moriarty, did you know that in your 1st post to this thread, you actually posted someone's affiliate details? That made me chuckle. The bit you might want to edit out is everything after the URL, especially the "<_edit_>" bit as that means member number <_edit_>. I'm sure he or she would be really pleased about that, but there's no sense in advertising for them is there? Unless it's you, hehe. 

2) As MagicMoose rightly pointed out (and Dr. Moriarty agreed), some scammers do use legitimate companies and names to trick people into falling for a real scam. VWD themselves know they've been victims of scammers using their name as part of a con. Here's the link:-

[broken link removed]

Just be warned, for some reason they've used an unflattened PNG for the image of the scam email on that page and it's 2MB! Jeez. It will only appear if you click the link on that page though, the URL I've supplied is just an ordinary web page.

That's it I think. Please do come back to me on this, as if I *have* made a mistake in joining VWD, it's a genuine one, and I'd like to know sooner rather than later. It's not too late for me to walk away. Actually, thinking about it, it's not too late for me to walk away any time as it's only £5.00 / week subscription.

That's in direct contrast to pyramid scams where you're expected to stump up several thousands up front for junk that nobody will buy. That alone made me begin to believe they were legit, and as I looked harder, it just got better.

I belive this is legitimate MLM (Multi Level Marketing), not illegal pyramid, and from simple sums I've done, it doesn't look like the money will run out. VWD have been going for 4 years now (start up 2002), and pyramids don't usually last anywhere near that long. They're also very public in what they do. There's enough in that £5.00 / week to cover the costs all the way down to the 7th level of commission.

That's what I think today anyway. 

And just think, companies like this are under EXTREME scrutiny from people like the FSA and Trading Standards, no-one wants another bl***y scam on their doorstep!

As I said, I've started to write up my take on the whole thing, and I really do welcome constructive criticism from anyone. So if anybody wants the link to what I've written so far, just PM me. I'll be adding to it as I find time over the next month or so.

In that write up are links to their sales letters pages as well, three altogether, 1 for affiliate, and 1 each for the UK Lotto and the Euromillions. As with all sales letters there's quite a bit of hype in there, but if you ignore that, there's also some good info about the e-lottery between those 3 pages, including numbers. It doesn't give you all the detail though which is why I'm doing a write up too including a more recent set of numbers.

All the best.


Plank.


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## DrMoriarty (1 May 2006)

Plank said:
			
		

> Dr. Moriarty, did you know that in your 1st post to this thread, you actually posted someone's affiliate details?


Whoops...  — and no, I can assure you it's not me. I've never bought a lottery ticket in my life, much less through an MLM affiliate scheme! I've edited the link and removed the references to the member number from your own post.

Plank, I still think you're mad (no offence intended) — but of course it's entirely your own choice. Thanks for not posting links here to your own page...


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## Plank (1 May 2006)

No offence taken.    It took me 4 months before I joined.  I am sceptico extremo!  Having said that, I already have 5 people signed up underneath me, and I haven't really tried very hard, I've been too busy doing other things.

But I do think this one is above board.  I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to PM you my website details.  I really do want someone to point out my glaring error before I spend too much time and effort on this.

You can of course just tell me to s*d off!

Please don't.


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## DrMoriarty (1 May 2006)

Plank said:
			
		

> It took me 4 months before I joined. I am sceptico extremo! Having said that, I already have 5 people signed up underneath me, and I haven't really tried very hard, I've been too busy doing other things.
> 
> But I do think this one is above board.


Ah, yes.

Well, Plank, you certainly seem to have made a big impression on them, too — I see they already have you 'welcoming' people to their  and ' sections...  

My regards to the .

Plank banned.
Thread locked.
Point made?


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