# maternity benefit denied



## Mary Anne (12 Jun 2019)

Hi all,
I know from this post I can sound quite dumb, but here I am.
My maternity benefit application has been turned down because I have filled in the claim more than 6 months after the baby was born (in fairness, yes, when she was 7 months). 
What I said as an explanation for the delay was that from my HR department the message wasn't clear, they just gave me a pat in the back and sent me off saying I was entitled to full pay so the fact that I had to fill in a separate form with SW never crossed my mind. I know, here is where I sound idiotic.
When I rang the SW Maternity Benefit section, the employee, quite sympathetic, suggested I could get a letter from the doctor saying I was suffering of post-natal depression and that could be accepted as a good reason for such a delay.
Now, I wouldn't be a fan of pretending such a thing, because I am afraid it will follows me in case I get pregnant again and it will be recorded somewhere anyway.
Would anybody be able to suggest a different but effective option? 
Thanks!
Mary Anne


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## jim (12 Jun 2019)

Hi Mary Anne,

PND is very very common. I think you should take the advice you were given. Its certainly worth it for the mat benefit. I dont think it would be recorded in any detrimental way for you! Itll just be part of your medical history.


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## Mary Anne (12 Jun 2019)

jim said:


> Hi Mary Anne,
> 
> PND is very very common. I think you should take the advice you were given. Its certainly worth it for the mat benefit. I dont think it would be recorded in any detrimental way for you! Itll just be part of your medical history.


Ah, ok, so I was worrying for no reason! Yes, it's quite some money and I could really get depressed if I don't get it at the end. Thanks Jim!


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## misemoi (12 Jun 2019)

Did your employer pay you in full, or did they deduct the MB from your salary?  If they paid you in full then there is no point in claiming?  Remember that MB is now taxable so you are no better or worse off tax wise by not claiming it.  Unless your employer is looking to recoup the MB.?


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## MangoJoe (12 Jun 2019)

Mary Anne congratulations on the birth of your baby - Wishing you and your family every good fortune.

Personally I think this is your money and you should get every cent the same as everyone else does - If you need to tell a couple of innocent white lies then just force yourself to do it.....

- All credit for being a decent and honest person who telling even a harmless lie never came naturally to.


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## Feemar5 (12 Jun 2019)

You are supposed to claim Maternity Benefit six weeks before you go on maternity leave so I don't know if post natal depression will cover you.    Will they take your word for it or will they require a Doctors Cert - you would need to clarify this as a G.P is unlikely to put something in writing that he/she can't stand over.    If you were paid in full  and  H.R. is now looking for a refund of the M.B. they seem to be very lax - you should have got a document outlining the procedure before you went on Maternity leave.


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## jim (12 Jun 2019)

Gp will certainly sign you off for PND if you ask nicely.


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## Leper (13 Jun 2019)

1. You or your employer is entitled to the money. If you were paid in full, then it's your employer is short changed.
2. You failed to claim in time. The fault is entirely with you. If you were supposed to claim 6 weeks before giving birth and you have waited several months after the birth. How much time do you need to fill in a form?
3. Telling lies is just adding to the situation.

You asked for a solution:- Get your TD to represent you. If his name is Healy-Rae you have a better chance.


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## Mary Anne (13 Jun 2019)

Oh guys thanks a lot!
Well the problem is I didn't know I had to fill a form, otherwise, yes, it takes no time really. I did all the paperwork for employer in perfect time like.
And no I got the M.B. deducted from salary I wouldn't be losing sleep over it if it wasn't so.
Ill try to ask GP nicely, or I will get depressed for real, since after all it's money everyone gets and delay doesn't really change any of the other circumstances. 
I can't vote in Ireland, so I don't think any TD would actually bother with me. I take it that should be a good one thanks for the advice Leper.
Will get you a virtual round if this works out!!
Thanks,
Mary Anne


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## Mary Anne (13 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> Mary Anne congratulations on the birth of your baby - Wishing you and your family every good fortune.
> 
> Personally I think this is your money and you should get every cent the same as everyone else does - If you need to tell a couple of innocent white lies then just force yourself to do it.....
> 
> - All credit for being a decent and honest person who telling even a harmless lie never came naturally to.



Thanks a lot!! And for the good words!!


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## MangoJoe (13 Jun 2019)

Noting another post on here Mary..... Personally I think you should be enjoying special bonding time with your baby and not off chasing sketchy local politicians begging for favours - Definitely take the shortest easiest route and don't feel any bit bad about it....

Lots of GPs are very practical and fair minded in these situations.

PS Thanks also the same, unnamed poster, for the diligent, astute and insightful reminder that the form was not filled in on time.... wonderful, simply wonderful.


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

Will most GP's really tell lies in order to defraud the Department of Social Protection?


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> Personally I think this is your money and you should get every cent the same as everyone else does - If you need to tell a couple of innocent white lies then just force yourself to do it.....
> 
> - All credit for being a decent and honest person who telling even a harmless lie never came naturally to.


Really? A decent and honest person wouldn't be contemplating falsely claiming to be suffering from a mental illness in order to get money from their fellow tax payers. 
There should be an appeals procedure in the SW Maternity Benefit section. If they can't help then anything else is fraud.


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## Steven Barrett (25 Jun 2019)

Mary Anne said:


> Oh guys thanks a lot!
> Well the problem is I didn't know I had to fill a form, otherwise, yes, it takes no time really. I did all the paperwork for employer in perfect time like.
> And no I got the M.B. deducted from salary I wouldn't be losing sleep over it if it wasn't so.
> Ill try to ask GP nicely, or I will get depressed for real, since after all it's money everyone gets and delay doesn't really change any of the other circumstances.
> ...



The person in Social Welfare told you what to do to get the claim. No need in doing anything else. 




Purple said:


> Will most GP's really tell lies in order to defraud the Department of Social Protection?



It's not defrauding the dept of Social protection. She is late with her claim through an honest mistake. There is an actual baby and she is entitled to it. Do you think the personal in Social Welfare would have told her to defraud the welfare? I'd say it is quite common. 
And yes, a GP would sign a note.


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## MangoJoe (25 Jun 2019)

Purple said:


> Really? A decent and honest person wouldn't be contemplating falsely claiming to be suffering from a mental illness in order to get money from their fellow tax payers.
> There should be an appeals procedure in the SW Maternity Benefit section. If they can't help then anything else is fraud.



…..Getting money from her fellow tax payers that she is wholly and absolutely entitled to....This falsification you're referring to is merely to thwart the inflexible mechanics of the bureaucratic machine in this instance.....

In my opinion its best to not get blinded by technicalities and begin brandishing moral concepts like they matter when they absolutely do not to the ordinary, fair minded, balanced and objective person.


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## cremeegg (25 Jun 2019)

SBarrett said:


> It's not defrauding the dept of Social protection.



Of course it is. The requirement for the benefit is that it be claimed within 6 months.

Now a fraud has been proposed to get around the failure to meet that requirement. (The blithe assumption that a GP will be happy to oblige is a thing of beauty)

If I were in this situation I wouldn't hesitate to get the GP to sign and make the claim, but I wouldn't delude myself by thinking that it wasn't fraud. The rules are stupid I am happy to break them, but I recognise that is what I am doing.


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

SBarrett said:


> It's not defrauding the dept of Social protection. She is late with her claim through an honest mistake. There is an actual baby and she is entitled to it. Do you think the personal in Social Welfare would have told her to defraud the welfare? I'd say it is quite common.


What do you call telling lies to get the money? It may not be that big a deal but I certainly wouldn't be extolling someone's honesty with "All credit for being a decent and honest person" after advising them to tell lies to make up for their own mistake.



SBarrett said:


> And yes, a GP would sign a note.


I suppose they will,sure they sign sick certs all the time...


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

cremeegg said:


> Of course it is. The requirement for the benefit is that it be claimed within 6 months.
> 
> Now a fraud has been proposed to get around the failure to meet that requirement. (The blithe assumption that a GP will be happy to oblige is a thing of beauty)
> 
> If I were in this situation I wouldn't hesitate to get the GP to sign and make the claim, but I wouldn't delude myself by thinking that it wasn't fraud. The rules are stupid I am happy to break them, but I recognise that is what I am doing.


Exactly.


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> …..Getting money from her fellow tax payers that she is wholly and absolutely entitled to....


... if you claim within 6 months. Outside that you need to commit fraud to get it. 



MangoJoe said:


> In my opinion its best to not get blinded by technicalities and begin brandishing moral concepts like they matter when they absolutely do not to the ordinary, fair minded, balanced and objective person.


 You know what they say about opinions.


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## MangoJoe (25 Jun 2019)

Obviously a system such as this needs to actively encourage applicants to submit their paperwork within a finite timing window or else people would routinely retrospectively claim 18 or 24 months later or just randomly whenever they felt was a good time.....

To suggest that anyone who genuinely needs to submit a claim outside of this window is committing fraud is frankly directing your attention away from what is the just and fair end result.


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## MangoJoe (25 Jun 2019)

Purple said:


> ... if you claim within 6 months. Outside that you need to commit fraud to get it.
> 
> You know what they say about opinions.



What do they say about opinions Purple? Was it this one you were thinking of?:

Bigot - a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.


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## jim (25 Jun 2019)

Mangojoe and sbarret = nail on head
Cremyegg, purple and leper = 3 peas from the same moral esposing pod

1.Lads she is entitled to this.
2.She was slightly late with her claim through an honest mistake.
3.Social protection have advised her accordingly and she should act on that advice.
4.GP will sign off no probs as they are practical individuals!
5. It isnt fraud, she is late in claiming what she is entitled to. She is just circumventing a rather onerous rule imo, no biggy. 

No need to make a mountain out of a mohill and start crying fraud and taking the moral highground. Have the intelligence to look at each case as they arise and judge it on its merits....but not too hastily lads.

Cheers


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> What do they say about opinions Purple? Was it this one you were thinking of?:
> 
> Bigot - a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.


No


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

jim said:


> No need to make a mountain out of a mohill and start crying fraud and taking the moral highground. Have the intelligence to look at each case as they arise and judge it on its merits....but not too hastily lads.


I don't think anyone is taking the moral high ground. Nobody is saying don't do it, just pointing out that it is fraud.


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## MangoJoe (25 Jun 2019)

Purple said:


> Really? A decent and honest person wouldn't be contemplating falsely claiming to be suffering from a mental illness in order to get money from their fellow tax payers.
> There should be an appeals procedure in the SW Maternity Benefit section. If they can't help then anything else is fraud.





Purple said:


> I don't think anyone is taking the moral high ground. Nobody is saying don't do it, just pointing out that it is fraud.



Ok so.….Well, I suppose as long as you are as consistent as your are objectively fair-minded Purple......


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 Jun 2019)

It is not a fraud if a doctor forms a legitimate belief that the patient's state of mind was an impediment to her claiming the entitlement within the required time.


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> Ok so.….Well, I suppose as long as you are as consistent as your are objectively fair-minded Purple......


Where did I claim to be a decent person?


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It is not a fraud if a doctor forms a legitimate belief that the patient's state of mind was an impediment to her claiming the entitlement within the required time.


I don't think the OP is suggesting that she has postnatal depression or that she will try to con her GP into saying that she actually has postnatal depression.


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## Peanuts20 (25 Jun 2019)

There are 4 reasons why a person can be refused MB, 3 of them are *w**il**l* (applicant is working, refuses to attend a medical or if an EU citizen spends time outside the EU), the 4th reason is badged as *may* be refused, namely late applications. This is from the DSW guidelines for processing of applications. This implies there is some leeway for late applications depending on the circumstances


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 Jun 2019)

Suppose you are a decision officer in DEASP.

The internal rules say you can make an exception with a doctor's note.

You are supplied with a doctor's note which you are satisfied has not been forged.

Why on earth would you have any reason to suspect fraud?


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## Steven Barrett (25 Jun 2019)

Purple said:


> What do you call telling lies to get the money? It may not be that big a deal but I certainly wouldn't be extolling someone's honesty with "All credit for being a decent and honest person" after advising them to tell lies to make up for their own mistake.



Everything isn't black or white. Fraud would be not actually having a baby and claiming it or if her employer had paid her full salary and she was claiming this on top. Being late in claiming payment through an honest mistake is not. There are laws broken every day of the week, some of them are minor, some major. Look at the amount of people who accelerate through an amber light. Are they criminals?


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## Purple (25 Jun 2019)

SBarrett said:


> Being late in claiming payment through an honest mistake is not.


I agree. Falsely claiming to have postnatal depression in order to get the money is.


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## cremeegg (25 Jun 2019)

SBarrett said:


> Look at the amount of people who accelerate through an amber light. Are they criminals?


Yes, they are breaking the law, or is it a trick question?


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## mathepac (25 Jun 2019)

Gombeenism (and what-aboutery) are alive and well in 21st century Ireland. It comes as no surprise to have that fact confirmed yet again, it comes as a shock that it raises its ugly head in here.

What is more shocking is that what can be a very serious and debilitating illness should be bandied about as a triviality, merely a convenient  excuse for failing to comply with the qualification conditions for a SW benefit and that it be used as the basis for fraud.

Given that the OP was for whatever reason unfamiliar with all the conditions for claiming the benefit and that SW seem to some discretion in adjudicating on claims, could she not write to SW, making her case honestly and let the case be judged on its merits?


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## Purple (26 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> To suggest that anyone who genuinely needs to submit a claim outside of this window is committing fraud is frankly directing your attention away from what is the just and fair end result.


Who is suggesting that?


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## MangoJoe (26 Jun 2019)

Purple may I please respectfully decline to become further entangled in this pointless nonsense.

Wishing you well, all the best.


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## Purple (26 Jun 2019)

mathepac said:


> Gombeenism (and what-aboutery) are alive and well in 21st century Ireland. It comes as no surprise to have that fact confirmed yet again, it comes as a shock that it raises its ugly head in here.
> 
> What is more shocking is that what can be a very serious and debilitating illness should be bandied about as a triviality, merely a convenient  excuse for failing to comply with the qualification conditions for a SW benefit and that it be used as the basis for fraud.
> 
> Given that the OP was for whatever reason unfamiliar with all the conditions for claiming the benefit and that SW seem to some discretion in adjudicating on claims, could she not write to SW, making her case honestly and let the case be judged on its merits?


Well said.


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## Purple (26 Jun 2019)

MangoJoe said:


> Purple may I please respectfully decline to become further entangled in this pointless nonsense.
> 
> Wishing you well, all the best.


You can indeed. Mathepac summed up my views very will above. There's nothing more to be said.


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## elcato (26 Jun 2019)

A french egg is a french egg. Question has been answered. Thread closed.


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