# Good Tenants - what's it worth to keep them???



## geri (8 Aug 2005)

I have been renting out a house for the past year in Clondalkin Villlage. We have had the same tenants for the year. They are model tenants - no complaints from neighbours, rent always paid on time, house is kept in great condition. The monthly rent for the year was E12OO. The contract is now up for renewal, and they have asked us to drop the rent to E1100. They have told me they looked at at similar properties in the area and there are some available for 1100. They don't want to leave, but will if we don't drop the rent. If we do drop it to 1100 they will sign up again for another year. What are your opinions on the value of good tenants versus the extra 100 per month. Its one months rent over the year. I'm leaning towards dropping the rent for the peace of mind and a full years rental.


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## Carpenter (8 Aug 2005)

You could offer to split the difference, say €1150, that way you're seen to be flexible without being a walkover.  If the rent starts dropping after year one it will make it very difficult for you to raise it in the future.  If they don't go for it you've got to figure on paying advertising, screening new tenants and perhaps idle months waiting for the "right" tenant to come along.  Be tentative and suss them out!


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## ariidae (8 Aug 2005)

How many bedrooms does it have?


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## geri (8 Aug 2005)

Hi Carpenter,

Yep, I have already done that, but they are adamant they want to drop to 1100.  As far as they're concerned thats a utility bill paid for the month.  They are mimimum wage workers, so I imagine its worth it to them.  This all came up three weeks ago.  I have been away until now, so I gave them three weeks to consider the 1150, and they probably viewed other places aswell.  They aren't going to change their minds on it.
Thanks 
Geri.


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## geri (8 Aug 2005)

its a 3 bedroom, one bathroom semi.


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## Carpenter (8 Aug 2005)

Well I supppose you could accept their point but stipulate that this is a one off and state that the rent WILL go up next year, your maintenance costs etc are not going down.


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## ariidae (8 Aug 2005)

Here, check out daft for rent charges in your area to see what is available to them. The seem to be telling the truth - there are a few 3 beds @ €1100. So it's gonna depend on how well furnished your place is in comparison to the other places that they'll look at or it's closer to bus routes and stuff.

Just to let you know though .. it came up with 14 3 bed properties available in Clondalkin which have been posted in the last 7 days! 

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id]=202&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=&s[bd_no]=3&s[sort_by]=date&s[sort_type]=d&offset=10&limit=10&search_type=rental&offset=0


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## delgirl (8 Aug 2005)

I'm also a landlord Geri and if I were you, I woud drop it to E1,100 - if you don't and they move out then it's as Carpenter pointed out - 



> idle months waiting for the "right" tenant to come along


 
Plus possible cleaning, painting, gardening costs etc.

Good tenants like yours are hard to find - I'd hang on to them and tell them that while you appreciate their good tenancy, it will have to go up next year to cover your costs.


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## hmmm (8 Aug 2005)

Speaking as someone who rents myself, I'll pay the market rate and no more even if the landlord tells me "This year is an exception, I will be raising the rent next year because of my costs". Next year is a whole new ballgame - I'm not in the business of making friends with my landlord, I simply expect a professional service from him while I uphold my side of the agreement. I don't know many landlords out there who didn't increase rents when it was a strong rental market, now that the market has turned (at least from my viewpoint) landlords will have to start accepting lower rents. Simple supply and demand.

On the question itself, from personal experience of filling rooms in a house (can't quote any statistics), it has become an awful lot harder to fill rentals. A couple of years ago, the phone would never stop ringing when you put an ad in daft or the herald, this year (and last year) you would get 2 or 3 people around in a week, and you'd have to accept people you previously wouldn't have considered. If I was a landlord, I would want to hang on to "good" tenants (once they agree a reasonable rent), particularly with a view to the medium term direction of the market.


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## mikeyny (9 Aug 2005)

keep the good tenants for as long as you can , 1200 is a lot less than you will spend in painting etc one months lost rent is lost forever you wont get it back


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## geri (9 Aug 2005)

Hi to all who replied,

Thank you all for your posts. Its made me feel confident that I'm doing the right thing by dropping the rent. However, anyone else viewing this thread, I would still be interested in your opinions. 
Thanks
Geri


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## Kiernp (9 Aug 2005)

Speaking as a landlord who has had some bad and expensive experiences with poor tenants, I would certainly keep good tenants as long as I could.


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## Eurofan (9 Aug 2005)

delgirl said:
			
		

> Good tenants like yours are hard to find - I'd hang on to them and tell them that while you appreciate their good tenancy, it will have to go up next year to cover your costs.



I'd have to voice agreement with this sentiment.

It's hard to put a value on the hassle factor but I'd always be happy to look after a good tenant to avoid the unknown.


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## MPH (11 Aug 2005)

Am also a landlord.  You're dropping the rent by E100 per month x 12 months = E1200.  Try them on keeping the rent at 1200 per month but giving them the 12th month free.  Still amounts to E13200 for the year.  That way they'll definitely stay for the year.  Otherwise there's nothing to stop them changing their mind and moving out after 6 months for example.


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## geri (11 Aug 2005)

Good idea MPH, except that I have already now agreed the 1100 p/m with them. Ah well, will keep it in mind for future.


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## delgirl (11 Aug 2005)

> giving them the 12th month free


 
Also think that was a good idea MPH.

Another idea, which I've just offered to a good tenant, is to pay for refuse disposal and grass cutting for the year - it takes the hassle away from the tenant, ensures that garbage is being disposed of properly and keeps the property tidy - and it can be offset as a rental expense provided you get receipts.


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## MPH (16 Aug 2005)

Another thing I do is tell tenants when they are signing the lease that if they do not stay for the year they will forfeit their deposit which is a months rent.  Has been effective so far!  Just thought I would add it in.


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## geri (17 Aug 2005)

Again, thanks to all for the sound advice.  I have prepared a new contract stating that the rent is 1100 p/m, with a clause stating that after 12 months the rent will again go back up to 1200.  Is this acceptable from a PRTB point of view does anyone know?  I've looked at it on line and it says that the Landlord has the right to review the rent annually, and must give 28 days notice of an increase.  I presume this means at least 28 days??  By the way, wouldn't you think the PRTB would send you details of yours and the tenants obligations after you register?  What is the 70 Euro actully used for???


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## Mrs Dara (17 Aug 2005)

I also have a 3 bed house in Clondalkin rented out.  In april 2004 with rent was 1200 and in april 2005 it was reduced to 1100 which reflects the average rent in the area.  They have obviously been looking at daft and know what the average rents are.  The estate agent who looks after it said he has more houses at the moment than tenants.


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## beattie (18 Aug 2005)

I am not sure it would be a very good idea inserting the clause which stipulates that the rent will go back up to €1200 at the end of the year. It could end up frightening them away and they could just walk and leave you high and dry with no tenants and you will still be only probably able to command a rent of €1100 from any new tenants. Is there much development due to come on stream in the next 12 months in the area?


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## maryrose (18 Aug 2005)

Indicating the rent rise in twelve months will almost certainly lose you your tenants.
It comes accross as giving with one hand while taking away with the other.
you are giving them more than the usual 28 days notice, and by letting them know a year in advance makes it look like you are doing them this enormous favour , when in fact it is they who are doing you the honour in respecting your property to the extent that you don't want to lose them.

Be gracious, it may be rewarded, and leave the rent at what they have suggested for now.

What price profit?


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## Bray (22 Aug 2005)

I would deffo drop that rent by 100e deffo deffo, I rent 2 houses, and if you have good tennants, hang on to them at all costs at the moment...just my view!!!!!


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## markowitzman (25 Aug 2005)

Have to agree with loughshinny.........
We have a few rental props also.........we make our money from capital appreciation and low vacancy.
Hence go for undermarket rents and 12 month leases.
I make it clear to all prospective tenants that I charge less than market rent but I expect them to treat it like their own.
I take a large deposit which I find weeds out the messers in this regard.


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## sonandheir (29 Jul 2006)

I'm a tenant who is hoping to try to get his rent reduced. I rent a 2 bedroom apt. on the outskirts of galway city for 750e per month. It's a rental agency I'm dealing with. I've been renting for 3 months with a 6 month lease. I know I could have got it originally for 700e as the lease agreement had this figure written on it when drafted, didn't haggle as I needed somewhere to live immediately at the time. What I plan to do is take a chunk of my savings and pay the next 6 months ahead. My query is how much would be reasonable to knock off for paying upfront like this. I was hoping to pay 4000e upfront for 6 months saving me 500e over the period. Should I go even lower as I know I'm already paying over what was originally expected?


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## Marie (29 Jul 2006)

sonandheir said:
			
		

> I'm a tenant who is hoping to try to get his rent reduced. I rent a 2 bedroom apt. on the outskirts of galway city for 750e per month. It's a rental agency I'm dealing with. I've been renting for 3 months with a 6 month lease. I know I could have got it originally for 700e as the lease agreement had this figure written on it when drafted, didn't haggle as I needed somewhere to live immediately at the time. What I plan to do is take a chunk of my savings and pay the next 6 months ahead. My query is how much would be reasonable to knock off for paying upfront like this. I was hoping to pay 4000e upfront for 6 months saving me 500e over the period. Should I go even lower as I know I'm already paying over what was originally expected?


 
How about - quote your landlord the lowest rent locally for the same status property.  Calculate how much your money would earn in a RABO deposit account over the period - and you have your 'fair rent' sum to suggest to your landlord.  In effect you are saying "This is what I can get the same service for elsewhere.  Match it or I'm off to do so, exerting my self-respect and saving myself money in the process".   I was a tenant (in Dublin) in the early 1970's and had to move on several times - at great expense and inconvenience to myself - before finding a situation which was not an alienating (in a couple of instances degrading!) experience and feel tenants should - whilst keeping all the terms of their contract - treat their purchase of a service in a businesslike manner.


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## ACA (29 Jul 2006)

I agree with the majority of posters - good tenants are worth their weight in gold. But whats going to happen upon renewal next year? Will they try to get the rent lowered again? 

How come rent is coming down and the lending rate going up?? If this trend (as is expected) continues for the next 18-24 months, where do you stand then Geri?


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## hmmm (29 Jul 2006)

ACA said:
			
		

> How come rent is coming down and the lending rate going up??



Because rent is based on supply and demand, and is not based on the cost of money. Whatever the landlord is paying for the property is completely irrelevent to the tenant, as that landlord will find out if they use "interest rates go up" as a justification for trying to raise rents.


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## cjh (31 Jul 2006)

Carpenter, next year the rent will be dictated by the market, not a landlord's costs, as is the case this year.


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## geri (1 Aug 2006)

ACA said:
			
		

> I agree with the majority of posters - good tenants are worth their weight in gold. But whats going to happen upon renewal next year? Will they try to get the rent lowered again?
> 
> How come rent is coming down and the lending rate going up?? If this trend (as is expected) continues for the next 18-24 months, where do you stand then Geri?


 
Funny this post should be ressurected just now as next month the lease is up for renewal again!  I have done a search on Daft for similar properties to mine  (3 bed semi) in the Clondalkin area.  This year there are only 9 other similar properties available for rent.  Average monthly rate is 1200, (only three of them are 1100 and these are a bit outside the village, rest are up to 1300 in the village, ours is right in the heart of the village). All of them have been posted within the last 5 days.  Compare this to the same time I checked last year, there were 14  3 bed semi's for rent, some of them on the site for over a week with average asking price of 1100.  Looks like the market in Clondalkin Village is a little better this year for landlords. I will look for an increase in line with what the market is dictating and see what happens.  Will keep you posted.


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## Numbs (1 Aug 2006)

Think about what the alternative may cost you. You could get landed with new tenants that seem fine but in a year you end up with carpets that look like a herd of buffalo ran over them, a couch that looks like a car sat in it and more damaged electrical appliances than a scrapyard. That all costs money. The value of good tenants is very hard to quantify but well worth €100 a month.


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## geri (1 Aug 2006)

Numbs said:
			
		

> Think about what the alternative may cost you. You could get landed with new tenants that seem fine but in a year you end up with carpets that look like a herd of buffalo ran over them, a couch that looks like a car sat in it and more damaged electrical appliances than a scrapyard. That all costs money. The value of good tenants is very hard to quantify but well worth €100 a month.


Numbs, totally agree, I don't want to loose these tenants.  On the other hand, I'm not going to just keep charging the same rent year after year when the market is showing something else.  Last year the market was dictating a lower monthly rent, so I dropped it.  

I know the tenants love where they live and are now quite settled in the area.   Their neighbours are very nice people, the house is in great condition with all new appliances and a nice back and front garden.  So, of course I will look for an increase and then we will probably have to negotiate!  As I said, will keep ye posted!


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## liteweight (1 Aug 2006)

Hi Geri,
Glad you posted here (kept meaning to). Took me a little while to realise that this was a very old thread!! You're right that although good tenants are a great asset, a landlord needs to earn a crust too especially with rising interest rates. It's a two way street after all. We rented a place this year, nicely furnished, all mod cons etc. Adverised on Daft, inundated with phone calls and emails and let it within a week, which was the time it took us to check out references. You can't always trust the number of places left on Daft because people don't bother cancelling the ad when the place is taken. For example, we left ours up for three weeks while references were checked, bank drafts cleared and contracts signed etc. Similarly, when we wanted to buy, a lot of the people said the places were sold and that they'd forgotten to take the ad down. 

It's all well and good to try to keep good tenants but rental property is a business and has to be run as such.


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