# Do i need to change my planning permission



## acavanman (23 Mar 2011)

Hello,
Could anyone give me some advice please,
I have planning permission for a dormer bungalow of a standard build type with 2 by 100mm block with 100mm cavity.
Having been through 2 cold winters and seen our current rented house of wood frame construction going through 1000 liters every 6 to 8 weeks.
I am going to upgrade the insulation in our new home which will increase wall width and roof height.
Do i need to apply for planning again to do this as external dimension will increase.


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## onq (23 Mar 2011)

Hi acavanman

Without seeming to fob you off with a return to sender answer, you really need to discuss this with your local authority planning officer for a definitive answer - we can only offer our opinions here.
In addition we aer not privy to exactly what measures you are proposing, just that the external envelope is likey to increase its depth dimension.

In relation to seeking local authority answers, even the word of a planning officer may not sufficient in my experience.
Planning officers change areas and can change their minds, particularly in relation to pressure from irate neighbours, particularly if those neighbours threaten to take a section 160 action under the Planning and Development act 2000.

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To get a slightly better assurance you could seek a Section 5 Declaration as to whether this requires planning permission or not.
Section 5 Declarations cost around €80 and should take about 4 weeks.
Ask the planning officer what information they require.

I would expect a set of drawings showing the permitted design with an amended set showing the proposed variations may be required.

Again, what a local authority decides may be overturned by a court - look at the decision that went against Dun Laoghaire Rathdown for demolishing Carlisle Pier without permission.

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You see, if something isn't explicitly permitted by the Exempted Development Schedule in the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 - S.I. 600 of 2001 ( as amended) - its generally needs permission but there is a grey area.

The grey area arises through Section 4(1)(h) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, q.v. 
   This basically allows you to do certain things as long as they don't change the appearance of your permitted or existing building to make it look out of character – exact wording not to hand but I’ve posted it before on AAM.

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Thinking this would be the cure all to stated concerns arising after Plan Expo 2009 in relation to the external insulation I'd seen exhibited at the show I approached one local authority expecting a clean bill of health, but no!

Instead they were concerned that Section 4(1)(h) would be used as a cover to get away with carrying out poorly done work including the replacement of sills and eaves and repositioning of services pipe work and drains.

I haven't done a retrofit yet, but the above leads me to think that there could be problems with some planning departments.


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So in the long run your safest bet is to seek permission for the proposed amendments.


 HTH

 ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself -  should     legal       action     be    taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise        in            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports   on   the        matters    at     hand


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## threebedsemi (23 Mar 2011)

It will really depend on how much you are going to increase the dimensions by, and if you are in a sensitive area with regard to ridge height etc.
Going by the letter of the law, you need planning permission to increase the length of your house by 10mm. 
In pratice, if your house is 8 metres wide, and you increase the wall thickness by 50mm, that is 100mm extra width in total, or a 1.25%increase in overall width, if my math is correct. 

The phrase 'the law does not concern itself with trifles' comes to mind.

The person you should be asking of course is whoever is going to supervise the build and issue you with the Certificate of compliance with Planning Permission'

Or you could approach things in another way. Within a 300mm wide wall, if you abandon the cavity blockwork construction method, you can achieve u-values of 0.21 or less using timber frame or external insulation systems (the current required u-value for walls is 0.27).
There are many good threads on this site with regard to insulation, airtightness, and building design to maximise solar gain etc., and you should look through these and talk to your Architect before deciding to increase your overall dimensions.


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## acavanman (23 Mar 2011)

*Thanks*

Thanks for taking the time to reply your advice is greatly appreciated


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## onq (24 Mar 2011)

You're very welcome acavemen.

In return you might consider letting us know how you get on.

This is an emerging issue under planning law, one I'm sure that will interest many.


ONQ.

    [broken link removed]

    All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself -  should     legal       action     be    taken.
    Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise        in            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports   on   the        matters    at     hand


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## RKQ (4 Apr 2011)

threebedsemi said:


> In pratice, if your house is 8 metres wide, and you increase the wall thickness by 50mm, that is 100mm extra width in total, or a 1.25%increase in overall width, if my math is correct.


 
Nit pick 1. Very true threebedsemi, but the floor area hasn't increased! Technically floor area is very important. Floor area is used extensively in planning law - 23sqm, 40sqm etc. The old 1st time buyers grant was based on a floor area of less than 125sqm. 
It could be argued that increasing wall thickness by 50 -75mm for insulation is helping to comply or surpass the requirements of the current Building Regulations.

Nit pick 2. Technically if the wallplate was correctly designed to sit on inner leaf of the wall and slate is used to close cavity then increasing wall width "_shouldn't_" change wallplate position & therefore should not increase ridge height.

I agree with the above advice - talk to your Certifier and get written permission from your Planner or seek a Section 5.


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