# Emigrating Cash offer €140k on house <  mortgage €158k. Advice negotiating with bank?



## baz6679 (14 May 2011)

I got a cash offer today on my home. I need to sell as moving to OZ. I owe about €158,000 and the offer is €140,000 from a cash buyer. My mortgage is with Bank of Ireland. 

I am asking has anyone on here negotiated with the bank to let this go through. I definitely don't expect them to write this off. I have never ever missed a mortgage payment and am not currently in arrears but am on interest only for the past year. 

I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips on what to say and what not to say.

Basically the way I look at it is they should accept this and possibly let me pay off the balance over the next few years. Help?


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## Brendan Burgess (15 May 2011)

Hi baz

Have you a cheap tracker?  They _should _be delighted to take the proceeds but oddly enough, some banks are not doing this. 

If you are going abroad, they _should _in particular jump at this. 

If you have a cheap tracker, start by telling them that you are going abroad and you want their agreement to sell the house for less than the mortgage. Tell them that you want them to accept the proceeds in full and final settlement of the mortgage. They will refuse but get the refusal in writing. 

They should agree to allow you to sell it and convert the balance into a personal loan payable over the term of the mortgage. 

Your problem is trying to negotiate this while keeping the cash bidder alive.


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## bluemac (15 May 2011)

I personally think they should let off the remaining money if you have no savings or other investments..


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## baz6679 (15 May 2011)

No I don't have a tracker just the standard variable rate. I am prepared for the fact they will ask me to take out a loan for the balance. To be honest I am prepared for this as long as it's spread over the term of the mortgage. I just hope they go for it. Realistically what is the other option. Stop paying my mortgage and let them try and sell a house which has been on the market for a year. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks


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## Time (16 May 2011)

Well you tell them that. Either they accept your offer or they can try and sell your house which they won't get anywhere close to what you are offering.

Their call.


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## Bronte (16 May 2011)

Your bank would be mad not to accept this offer.  And you certainly don't want to go down the route of letting the bank sell it for you, for sure the figures will be far worse if this happens. 

If the bank does not agree is there any way you can borrow the difference of circa 20K


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## baz6679 (16 May 2011)

Bronte I'm not sure to be honest. I don't want to commit paying something back that I cant afford until I see how things go out there. To be honest if we both could come to some agreement. There is now way I am going to sign up to paying back interest etc. If we can agree a figure and a time for me to have the difference paid off I think i'll go with this.
I called bank manager today and I have to put it in writing. I then called my solicitor in order to keep him aware of what is happening also. He told me that he has been doing deals this past year with banks and that they are negotiating however they are not wanting this made common knowledge, I can understand why!


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## baz6679 (20 May 2011)

Ok update is that I have to go into local branch(at request of Mortgages) and go through a full review of finances with them. My solicitor spoke to me today and he advised that deals are happening however he has not had any experience with this Bank in particular(Bank of Ireland)
I think I am prepared to try and pay back as much as i can of the difference but I would really appreciate some sound advice guy's?
I mean I have nothing out of this sale. All proceeds to bank. My old car is paying for my flights to OZ and help from a couple of really good mates and relatives out there is going to get me on my feet. Do the bank really want to go down the route of me surrendering the property and then they have a house they don't want and will prob not be able to sell?
Honest thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.


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## AnyAdvice (9 Jun 2011)

Hey baz6679, did you negotiate a deal with your bank?


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## baz6679 (17 Jun 2011)

AnyAdvice said:


> Hey baz6679, did you negotiate a deal with your bank?



Sorry for delayed response. Head melted!!

Anyhow the answer is that it is a work in progress. Apparently the senior managers hold a meeting every couple of weeks where cases like mine are reviewed on a case by case basis. There are apparently 150-180 cases currently however what I have been told by my branch manager is that my case has been made a priority. The reason being is that i actually have a cash offer there and a buyer sitting waiting.
The majority of other cases are people who are in negative equity and have applied to move to other houses etc and take the negative equity with them

It is frustrating because they have had this for a month now. They requested i get an independent value to support the offer at my cost of 130 euro.
Bank manager did say off the record that whoever has been dealing with this in Dublin remarked to him that they are aware that I had put a large amount of my own savings in-to this house also outside of the mortgage and they realise I am losing on this also. So fingers crossed, i got told today that these meetings are taking place early next week as well due to a large backlog so i should hopefully have news next week early.


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## cazmayo (21 Jun 2011)

I think they would be wise to do a deal and let you sell for the 140 in full and final settlement of your mortgage!!!  I think it would be unwise of them to mess about and maybe lose the cash buyer in the present market, then your off to oz,and their left with a house that they cant sell.

I hope you get a final settlement, and good luck in Oz.

cheers caz


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## Bronte (22 Jun 2011)

Baz thanks for the update.  Can you tell us which bank it is at the end of this saga.  Good news is that banks seem to be becoming more realistic.  Still very slow on the decision making when this is of such crucial importance to you.  One would have thought they would have a team specificially dedicated to those in negative equity and can pay most of the mortgage and that they could give instant decisions.   Hope it works out for you.


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## baz6679 (22 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> Baz thanks for the update.  Can you tell us which bank it is at the end of this saga.  Good news is that banks seem to be becoming more realistic.  Still very slow on the decision making when this is of such crucial importance to you.  One would have thought they would have a team specificially dedicated to those in negative equity and can pay most of the mortgage and that they could give instant decisions.   Hope it works out for you.



I will post a full outline of the process when I am done Bronte. They are a nightmare. It is 6 weeks today since they have had all the documentation. I got a call from the buyers today. They are not exactly holding a gun to my head but they want to know ASAP. I called the bank today and spoke with the manager. He is getting the run around from the Mortgage section in Dublin. I advised him the following: " I need an answer by 12 PM tomorrow. If the banks dilly dallying leads to these buyers withdrawing the offer I will make sure to do everything in my power to ensure that they get substantially less than what is on the table"


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## Bronte (23 Jun 2011)

baz6679 said:


> . If the banks dilly dallying leads to these buyers withdrawing the offer I will make sure to do everything in my power to ensure that they get substantially less than what is on the table"


 
Don't think that was a good idea. Understand where you are coming from. Instead I'd visit the branch and meet the manager and have a conference call with Dublin and thrash it out. Ring the manager and apolgise (no matter how much it kills you ) and get him on your side. You need him on your side. My experience is that the branches hate Dublin who give them the run around. If Dublin agrees, ask for an email (or fax) there and then to the manager from them addressed to you allowing the sale and print it out.


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## baz6679 (23 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> Don't think that was a good idea. Understand where you are coming from. Instead I'd visit the branch and meet the manager and have a conference call with Dublin and thrash it out. Ring the manager and apolgise (no matter how much it kills you ) and get him on your side. You need him on your side. My experience is that the branches hate Dublin who give them the run around. If Dublin agrees, ask for an email (or fax) there and then to the manager from them addressed to you allowing the sale and print it out.



Bronte, manager called me at 11.15 AM this morning. Sale can go ahead. the balance I owe is around 19-20,000. So they propose I pay this back at €354 per month over 5 years which is a rate of interest of about 4-5% he told me. This he said was good because they were lending it to me at the current mortgage rate.
I told him this was not acceptable to me so he said well we need you to put your proposal. So i wrote it down and talked it through with my solicitor. I am offering them 10,000 full and final settlement. I have offered to pay 1,000 per year over 10 years payable on a certain date each year, no monthly payment. Advised it was time to get realisitic and I was moving to a new country to start over. As I know myself and confirmed by the solicitor I am in a very strong position here. They have agreed the sale so now it's this balance and this is where the real negotiating starts.
I'll keep you all posted. I mean I said to them today that I always had the option of swanning off into the sunset post the keys through the branch letter box and let them do what they want. Instead of taking that option I secured a buyer who is offering a hell of alot more than if they had to go looking for one themselves. 
I would advise the following for anyone out there despairing in Debt: Stand Up for Yourself, take decisive action, Things will work out. I was in your position a year ago and now have light at the end of the tunnel. 
As usual there will be those who take the moral high ground and shame on you etc etc. Your own situation is just that...it's your own... every case is different. Do what you have to do.
Keep ya posted. Slan!


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## dewdrop (24 Jun 2011)

No doubt you will ensure your solicitor will have clear confirmation from the bank that they will release the Mortgage on his undertaking to lodge a certain sum or have it available when closing the sale. What i am trying to say is to ensure as far as you can that there are no last minute hold ups. It is great that you were able to come to this arangement but i feel your financial position would not be average for purchasers over the past 10 years in that your negative equity was not too large.  All the best.


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## Bronte (24 Jun 2011)

baz6679 said:


> . As I know myself and confirmed by the solicitor I am in a very strong position here. They have agreed the sale so now it's this balance and this is where the real negotiating starts.


 
Wow Baz you took an interesting approach.  Make sure you have the banks agreement to the sale in writing and that your solicitor is happy that is enough.

On an aside the other day B. Burgess was looking for someone to negotiate, maybe he could hire you.


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## Bogliving (30 Jun 2011)

Be interesting to hear how this all pans out. Frontline had a good debate on this on Monday (check it out on the RTE Player if you missed it) - seems deals are being done with the banks on a case-by-case basis.


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## baz6679 (12 Jul 2011)

Basically after 2 months and after initially agreeing to release house they sent me a letter saying i had to pay all the balance back over 10 years. I wrote a counter proposal advising them that i took an honest approach and faced the situation head on, i told them i could have ran and handed the keys back but i didnt do this and wanted to find a good solution, i also asked that i dont start paying back until at least 6 months as i am going there with no money and relatives there are paying our way and keeping us til we get set up, i also showed evidence of how much of my own money on top of the mortgage i had put into our home and how i am losing this all and asked they consider writing off some of it.
Answer comes back today NO NO NO. Wont negotiate at all.
So here is my new approach now. SCREW THEM. 
From first hand experience they are a joke and an absolute mess, no one will make decisions, your constantly chasing phoning leaving msg's
I know at least 5 couples and soon to be 7 couples who have sailed off to OZ and Canada and left the house to the bank and said see ya later we wont be back.
I honestly felt that because I approached this situation with honesty and integrity that it would be in my favour. How wrong was I!
Anyhow for what its worth fellow Readers and Posters, It's time our people stood up for themselves and ask ourselves why are these institutions holding us all to ransom, at the end of the day my hard earned wages went to pay for their mistakes, it should work both ways here. I hope they get screwed over big time by more and more people.
That's my honest opinion for what it's worth. Looking forward to the comments


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## Time (13 Jul 2011)

Fair play to you, screw them indeed. I wish you and your family every success in OZ. 



> Looking forward to the comments.


 Grabs popcorn.


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## paperclip (13 Jul 2011)

Hey baz, I just posted on this topic... and then did a search, I really must remember to search first.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. I can't believe what an utter bunch of incompetent greedy morons they are! 140k or nothing? Wow.
For a start, they're pretty much responsible for the mess we're in at the moment... 

Best of luck in Oz, let us know how you get on.



baz6679 said:


> Basically after 2 months and after initially agreeing to release house they sent me a letter saying i had to pay all the balance back over 10 years. I wrote a counter proposal advising them that i took an honest approach and faced the situation head on, i told them i could have ran and handed the keys back but i didnt do this and wanted to find a good solution, i also asked that i dont start paying back until at least 6 months as i am going there with no money and relatives there are paying our way and keeping us til we get set up, i also showed evidence of how much of my own money on top of the mortgage i had put into our home and how i am losing this all and asked they consider writing off some of it.
> Answer comes back today NO NO NO. Wont negotiate at all.
> So here is my new approach now. SCREW THEM.
> From first hand experience they are a joke and an absolute mess, no one will make decisions, your constantly chasing phoning leaving msg's
> ...


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## doughb (13 Jul 2011)

baz6679 said:


> I definitely don't expect them to write this off.
> 
> Basically the way I look at it is they should accept this and possibly let me pay off the balance over the next few years. Help?





baz6679 said:


> Basically after 2 months and after initially agreeing to release house they sent me a letter saying i had to pay all the balance back over 10 years.



So you initially stated that you didnt expect them to write off the debt and that you wanted it to be paid over a number of years. That is what you got but now you think its 'unfair' and you want more ?

Are you serious about skipping the country for such a small amount to be paid over 10 years. That would be an unwise move. 

You made a mistake in purchasing an overinflated asset, no point in making a second mistake.


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## 44brendan (13 Jul 2011)

I am a Banker (Not BoI or AIB)  and I fully sympathise with your position. You have approched this in an honest and intelligent manner unlike many other borrowers and have been met with an unrealistic and delayed response. Unfortunately the reason for this is that there is no real decision making in the current climate. I.e. bankers are afraid of taking a decision that will involve a loss as it can open them up to questions from above. Better to make no decision in these organisations than one that could be questioned. As such both the bank and yourself have suffered.
What you should do now is write down the full process you have gone through and the timing of responses or lack of same from the Bank. Ideally get your solicitor to send a letter to the Bank identifying the inadequacies of the system and that because of their action further monies will be lost and you will not assume responsibility for this. Send the letter to the local branch manager and to the Chief Executive of the Bank. Continue with your plans to leave the country and let the Bank then handle any issues through your solicitor. I feel you have done your utmost to be honourable in respect of this obligation and the problem should now be the Bank's. If they need to communicate with you it should be done through your solicitor & I wouldn't worry about legal threats given your attempts to reach an amicable solution.


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## baz6679 (13 Jul 2011)

doughb said:


> So you initially stated that you didnt expect them to write off the debt and that you wanted it to be paid over a number of years. That is what you got but now you think its 'unfair' and you want more ?
> 
> Are you serious about skipping the country for such a small amount to be paid over 10 years. That would be an unwise move.
> 
> You made a mistake in purchasing an overinflated asset, no point in making a second mistake.



Don't Generalise! I bought a site and built my own home. If you had read the post correctly you would have seen how i said that i showed the bank the evidence of the amount of money i personally had put into my home, i have taken the hit so why shouldnt they also after all they made a decision to lend money as well.
As for skipping the country why shouldn't I? I have paid the guts of a hundred grand in taxes during the good times, sure I also was making a good wage but at the end of the day as i have just said i ploughed this into my home. I would love to stay here and make a life for my kids but there is no future here.

Brendan thanks for the sound advice, have already done this. I do see the point because the solicitor said there is so much fear in the banks that decisions are not being made.


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## doughb (15 Jul 2011)

baz6679 said:


> Don't Generalise!



Would you like to address my question ? You stated that you didnt expect the bank to write off the amount and that you would be happy to pay it back over a number of years. But now, you dont want that.


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## Baracuda (16 Jul 2011)

doughb said:


> Would you like to address my question ? You stated that you didnt expect the bank to write off the amount and that you would be happy to pay it back over a number of years. But now, you dont want that.


+1 The banks are now owned mostly by we the people therefore if you walk away from your first proposal, we the people left here in Ireland will have to pay back the 20K that you walked away from through taxation and increased mortgage interest payments. You might not like what I say but it is the truth.


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## Bronte (22 Jul 2011)

Baz this is terrible. Basically on the 26th June they verbally agreed to a sale (after much effort). What exactly happened then? Did you ask for that decision in writing and is it that on the 12th July they sent you a letter saying no to the sale. Can you give the exact details please. Could you not have agreed to the payment over 10 years starting immediately, and then renegotiate after the sale has gone through on the grounds of having no money? For the sake of such a small amount of money and having a clean slate.


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## baz6679 (22 Jul 2011)

Bronte said:


> Baz this is terrible. Basically on the 26th June they verbally agreed to a sale (after much effort). What exactly happened then? Did you ask for that decision in writing and is it that on the 12th July they sent you a letter saying no to the sale. Can you give the exact details please. Could you not have agreed to the payment over 10 years starting immediately, and then renegotiate after the sale has gone through on the grounds of having no money? For the sake of such a small amount of money and having a clean slate.



A joke a mess is what they are, no one can be reached on the phone. I have a letter here today advising the balance has to be paid over 10 years. Going to sign it and send it back. Solicitor advised me that he eventually got speaking to someone on the credit committee today. They told them they are now totally dependent on my goodwill to pay this back as they have released the security and if i decide to not pay it back then?????????


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## Bronte (2 Aug 2011)

Ok so they have agreed to let you sell and pay back over time.  I think as they have been honorable to you you should do that, despite the fact they are desperate to get to a point of decision from.  After you have the house sold you will be able to negotiate again with them again on say a six months or 1 year stop on the balance outstanding while you get on your feet in Oz.  It's a relatively small amount.  Better to leave things clean.  You'll feel better for it.


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