# Father dead almost 10 years - should I have seen Will by now?



## Petrolhead84

My father died almost 10 years ago. 

A family member acts as solicitor for my mother and I. Every time I request the Will I am being put off. To date, I have never seen the Will of my father and I am wondering if this is normal?


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## mf1

Well, no its not normal!

But then, as an outside observer, I would be wondering about the family dynamics that allow a situation to linger for 10 years with no-one actually coming out and saying - lads, whats the story? 

It may be that the entire estate went to your mother - but if so, why does she not just  say so? 

By all means persist in asking , but if everything was in joint names, there may not be a will or a need for Probate but if that is the case, why does your mother not just say so? 

mf


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## Complainer

If the will has been processed, it should be available from the Probate office, so maybe you can just bypass the family members.


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## Petrolhead84

mf1 said:


> Well, no its not normal!
> 
> But then, as an outside observer, I would be wondering about the family dynamics that allow a situation to linger for 10 years with no-one actually coming out and saying - lads, whats the story?


 
I have asked many times over the years. I was 18 at the time of his death and every time I asked the Solicitor (family member), they just told me to concentrate on my studies etc.

I have now written two letters formally requesting a copy of the Will and the Solicitor is doing everything but send it to me.


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## mercman

Better idea would be to get a different solicitor (preferably one with a bit of beef) to represent you and ask the questions. Because it really is a bit smelly that you are now 28 and not have had normal family and possible beneficiary questions answered.


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## Petrolhead84

I am not saying that there was anything 'dodgy' per se but if I am owed something I'd like to know! (I know that sounds bad but I hate thinking I may be being messed around). 

There might be nothing in it. As mentioned above, everything may have automatically passed to my Mother in the Will, but nevertheless I don't see why my Solicitor is refusing to give me sight of the Will. A little suspicious, don't you think? Or am I being paranoid?


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## mercman

Paranoid -- NO  Normal -- Yes


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## mf1

Why don't you just ask your mother? 

mf


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## Petrolhead84

mf1 said:


> Why don't you just ask your mother?
> 
> mf


 
I have asked her. 

She just keeps saying, "Ask [the solicitor]".

She doesn't even know herself I don't think.


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## mercman

I think you and your mother need to have a heart to heart talk. Because if she does not know God only known what kind of sculduggery might have gone on.


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## Drago

Hi, 
You will not rest easy one way or the other till you know what it is all about. Check in the probate office if the will has been processed or not, this way you will then be able to see it for yourself and more to the point if it has not been done which I suspect you are thinking you will be able to clarify the situation for your mum too. It is very confusing for many people when death and wills are involved and no one likes to seem to pushy, but I do believe it should all be very clear for all involved and seen as  a natural process.  If you are not happy remember you are adult enough now to assist your mum in ensuring that you and she both have made wills yourselves and hopefully not with this dodgy guy. Good luck with it but dont let it destroy you. Perhaps your mum wasnt even aware of what was in the will herself or where papers were etc so dont be too hard on her. All the more reason for checking that everything is now in order and if not report the solicitor to the law library. Good luck hon.


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## Yorrick

You have been advised to check in the Probate Office. After ten years if the will has been processed it should be filed in the National Archives Bishop St Dublin. 
That will answer your queries.


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## max

You can only view a probated will if you were included in it in some way or another


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## mercman

max said:


> You can only view a probated will if you were included in it in some way or another



This is Pure and Utter Rubbish.

Max, don't bother posting if you do not know the full truth and mislead persons.

Fact is any will that has passed through Probate becomes a Public Document. OP for your own sanity reply on the facts and not pure crap from persons that do not know.


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## Nige

mercman said:


> This is Pure and Utter Rubbish.
> 
> Max, don't bother posting if you do not know the full truth and mislead persons.
> 
> Fact is any will that has passed through Probate becomes a Public Document. OP for your own sanity reply on the facts and not pure crap from persons that do not know.


 
Agreed.

I have personally gone to the Probate Office to seek a copy of a will of a family member, where I was not a beneficiary. The staff are very helpful and provided you have the right name, address and date of death of the deceased, will be able to get you a copy of any will lodged with them.


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## Mpsox

This is potentially a very serious issue, if probate has not been taken out and your fathers estate dealt with properly then you could face some difficult issues once your own mother passes away. The issue is that you don't know.

As other posters have mentioned, contact the Probate Office immediately. I'd also be inclined to give the solicitor a scare. Ask him if the will exists and if so, tell him you will be in his office at 9am on Friday morning to see it, otherwise you'll be filing a complaint with the Law Society as you belief he is in breech of the Solicitors (Amendement) Act 1994, Section 8
[broken link removed]

Don't ever be intimidated or take any garbage from a lawyer, family member or no family member. Something smells fishy with all of this and if he has nothing to hide, then he'll hand it over to you


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## Neg Covenant

If no grant of probate was taken out or required then the will may have been shredded by now.

If there were no assets and no will then there would be nothing to be done and no will or records might exist.

A title search on your Mother's house might help you.

Having left this 10 years you may well be out of time for kicking up a fuss.

Do you have reason to think that your father had assets that went to somebody other than your mother?


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## Petrolhead84

Neg Covenant said:


> Do you have reason to think that your father had assets that went to somebody other than your mother?


 
No.

That is not what I am worried about.

What I am worried about is the possibility that he may have left me things in the Will that I have not yet received. *I have received absolutely nothing.*

I am not saying my Father was loaded, but he did have substantial monetary wealth as well as various properties both here and abroad, and I am sure he would have left me something in the Will, albeit a small token gesture, perhaps. 

My issue with this is that* I have never seen the Will*, and having requested it several times orally and in writing, still have not had sight of it.


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## Vanilla

How about making a formal appointment at the office where this solicitor works, and go in and ask them face to face.


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## Vanilla

mercman said:


> This is Pure and Utter Rubbish.
> 
> Max, don't bother posting if you do not know the full truth and mislead persons.
> 
> Fact is any will that has passed through Probate becomes a Public Document. OP for your own sanity reply on the facts and not pure crap from persons that do not know.


 
In fact you're wrong. Probate practice has changed recently and now the probate office will only give certain documents to beneficiaries or executors.


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## mercman

Vanilla, how recent have the changes come into force ?? I recently requested a will for A N Other, overseas, from the Probate office and same was given to me no problem. How do you think the papers are able to publish the wills of people.


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## Nige

from what I can make out, a copy of the Inland Revenue Affidavit will only be given to a beneficiary or executor, but the will remains accessable to the general public. ([broken link removed]).


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## Neg Covenant

Re copies of documents being available to the public see the linked page:

[broken link removed]

It would be great if the OP let us know how he got on with the Probate Office.


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## TheFatMan

Ok from experience here the will if passed probate is a public document and is available to the general public as outlined by my fellow contributors.
The executor of the will is not obliged to share the contents of a will with anyone other than beneficiaries of the will prior to probate. And can even decide to only reveal the specific details that pertain to a beneficiary, leaving the remainder of the will's contents hidden. Prior to probate the executor is only obliged to inform you of will details that pertain to you as a beneficary. Everything else is effectively none of your business. If you are not a beneficiary of the will the executor is well within their rights not to discuss any aspect of the will with you, as you are neither a beneficiary nor a client. 

If the will hasnt passed probate after 10 years there is a serious failing on the exectutors part but find out 1st and then chase this bag of troubles if there is nothing in the probate office. Good luck


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## csirl

There may be no Will at all - many people dont have one, particularly those who are happy enough to see their estate distributed along normal succession lines.

Either way, first port of call should be the Probate Office to see whether one exists and what the official status of it is.


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## Nige

csirl said:


> There may be no Will at all - many people dont have one, particularly those who are happy enough to see their estate distributed along normal succession lines.


 
In which case the OP would have received his share of the estate.


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## Megan

Nige said:


> In which case the OP would have received his share of the estate.



It is my bet that there is no will. Your mother may not want to deal with it as she would have to pay out one third of the estate to her children. ( I am be wrong on the % there.) Are you an only child and if not - have any of your siblings got any answers regarding your late father's estate. If there is no will maybe the solicitor is trying to protect your mother.


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## Petrolhead84

I am an only child, yes.

There definitely was a Will. I remember my Father working on it when I was younger.


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## Megan

Petrolhead84 said:


> I am an only child, yes.
> 
> There definitely was a Will. I remember my Father working on it when I was younger.


He may have been working on it but may have never got around to making it. So it is really  only between yourself and your mother. Hope ye can work it out between yourselves. You may need your own solicitor to get the answers you need.


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## Petrolhead84

I have asked my mother. She said there definitely was a Will. 

My mother's sibling is our Solicitor. She has handled our affairs for years (ever since my parents married). She is situated on the other side of the country and it is not feasable for me to attend at her offices for the next few weeks. She is now ignoring my correspondence, phone calls and texts.


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## mf1

Petrolhead84 said:


> I have asked my mother. She said there definitely was a Will.
> 
> My mother's sibling is our Solicitor. She has handled our affairs for years (ever since my parents married). She is situated on the other side of the country and it is not feasable for me to attend at her offices for the next few weeks. She is now ignoring my correspondence, phone calls and texts.



This is an outsiders view based only on the limited information OP has provided and 25 years experience of dealing with the bog standard Irish family who regularly  try to avoid dealing with sensitive issues and thereby cause turmoil as here.

OP is circling the issue. All the focus is now on the solicitor rather than on the mother. This is primarily about the OP's relationship with his/her mother. It is also a clear demonstration of how poorly families often communicate with each other. 

If the mother knows nothing ( and I doubt this very much) then the only sensible thing for OP to do is to do as advised and (pick any or all of the following options) carry out a search  in the Probate Office, engage a solicitor  to enquire, ask the mother to  sign a letter addressed to her sibling confirming that she is authorising the solicitor to discuss her late husband's estate with OP  and to furnish to OP all information requested to OP, etc.,etc

If the mother knows precisely what has happened ( very likely that is either (a) all assets were in joint names and there was no need for a Grant  or (b) that OP's your father left a very standard will passing all of his estate to his wife and only if she predeceased him was the estate to go elsewhere) and just does not want to discuss it with OP, and is fobbing OP off and has told the solicitor not to tell OP anything, then let it go. One very simple approach is to ask a solicitor to do some title searches on property owned by OP's father to see if any changes have been made since his death.

The reality is that either  (a) there is no problem here at all - in which case it is beyond belief as to why the parties cannot discuss it or (b) there is a massive problem here which needs to be addressed and which is going to cause mayhem- in which case it is beyond belief as to why the parties cannot discuss it. 

mf


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## Neg Covenant

Well said mf1.

Why has OP left this stew for 10 years if OP cannot believe the father did not leave him something?

Why has OP not yet contacted the probate office (by phone, letter or in person)?   
[BTW - if the Grant was extracted outside Dublin then it may be necessary to contact the local office]

Does OP have money problems of his/her own?

If OP has taken a notion ten years down the line and expects everybody to put themselves out and run around in circles for him/her then it is no wonder they are ignoring him/her.

I don't know OP's circumstances but the fact that he/she has been told how to get the will and/or advised to check titles to property and is still moaning about the mother and the solicitor makes me think that the OP has some deeper non-legal issues.


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## Petrolhead84

First, OP does not have money troubles. 

Secondly, OP was 18 when his Father died and had just started University. 

I started asking my Solicitor about the Will shortly after my father's death. Being an 18 year old, the Will was the last thing on my mind - I was more concerned with usual teenager's activities. My Solicitor's response was always "to concentrate on study and don't be worrying about other things". I have been studying pretty much for the majority of the time since my father's death and the response has always been the same from my Solicitor. 

I have discussed this with my mother who has always told me to ask the Solicitor. To be honest, my mother is clueless when it comes to anything legal and I don't think she genuinely knows how anything Will-related works. 

OP is not expecting people to run around in circles for him. OP just wants an answer.

OP's father was not Irish and thus had assets both here and abroad - does this complicate things?

(P.S. I would appreciate if ''Frequent Posters'' were a bit more considerate.)


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## mf1

"OP just wants an answer."

OP has been given the answer. Its just not the answer they want to hear.

"(P.S. I would appreciate if ''Frequent Posters'' were a bit more considerate.) "

People who post on this board, be they newbies or Frequent Posters, do so in the certain knowledge that they will be quizzed and poked to try and get to the bottom of the story! People who have taken the trouble to respond to OP and give terrific advice do so voluntarily. 

mf


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## tallpaul

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like shaking the OP to rouse them from their lethargy on this??!!??

OP: you now have a clear course of action presented to you by other posters. You need to overcome your apparent timidity and squeamishness in facing up to this matter and do something. Otherwise you will end up with a giant 'what if...' hanging over you for the rest of your days.


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## truthseeker

Petrolhead84 said:


> I started asking my Solicitor about the Will shortly after my father's death. Being an 18 year old, the Will was the last thing on my mind - I was more concerned with usual teenager's activities. My Solicitor's response was always "to concentrate on study and don't be worrying about other things". I have been studying pretty much for the majority of the time since my father's death and the response has always been the same from my Solicitor.


 
Sorry Op - while this excuse may be reasonable for a year or so, 10 years seems a very long to allow such behaviour to continue without a formal investigation of what went on!!

You say you have asked your mother about the will and you think she is genuinely clueless about it - can she give you any clarification as to why her sibling has ignored your repeated requests for the last 10 years? What is her response when you ask her about this - it sounds like there IS something to hide, your mother says 'ask the solicitor', the solicitor says 'concentrate on your studies' - I mean - surely any reasonable person here would have smelt a rat 8 or 9 years ago?

This thread is a number of days old now - have you even phoned the probate office since it was started, or looked into engaging a solicitor yourself?

I personally think its odd that so long has passed and you have done nothing except be ignored by your mothers solicitor. All you need to do to resolve the situation is to follow the advice here.


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## Megan

Petrolhead84 said:


> My father died almost 10 years ago.
> 
> A family member acts as solicitor for my mother and I. Every time I request the Will I am being put off. To date, I have never seen the Will of my father and I am wondering if this is normal?


You say this solicitor (your aunt) acts for you and your mother. I would say she hasn't acted for you atall. Is it possible to leave a will sit for 10 years. If so your solicitor has to answer to somebody. Would the Law Society be any help here.


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## mercman

Sidetracker said:


> "Max, don't bother posting if you do not know the full truth and mislead persons". This is good stuff. Great to see some " Frequent Posters" telling other posters to bugger off and not be annoying.



Rather than being so critical and smart how about contacting the Probate office and asking them, as I did, what documents are available in the Public Domain after passing through Probate.


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## noel_c

Megan said:


> You say this solicitor (your aunt) acts for you and your mother. I would say she hasn't acted for you atall.


This is the crux of the matter OP. Having a solicitor act for you who could also have a personal interest in the case is always a bad idea. What you're describing is not normal at all. 

Engage a solicitor to act on your behalf who has no connection to your family at all. Also prepare for possible repercussions, being accused of betraying your family, upsetting your mother, so on. Just remember that the content of the will might have implications for your future and also for your mothers future financial security.


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## Lottowinner

Why is it the whole thing of Probating Wills a messy thing in Ireland?  I look upon probating a Will the same as wiping you backside after going to toilet, if you dont do it you could have a potential mess!! My grandfather died 23 years ago, and his Will (which was contentious) has never been probated. Surely we need a Law that makes it a legal obligation to probate a Will , say within two years of a death, and not "optional" as some of my relatives treat it.


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## Neg Covenant

Petrolhead84 said:


> I have been studying pretty much for the majority of the time since my father's death and the response has always been the same from my Solicitor.


 
In which case you may well have received a large portion of any inheritance through subsidy by your mother.



Petrolhead84 said:


> OP is not expecting people to run around in circles for him. OP just wants an answer.


It is the same thing.   You are asking the solicitor to do unpaid legal work (taking up old files, copying documents and perhaos giving an explanation) for you.   Nobody owes you an answer.   You have been told how to get information yourself.   How did you get on with that?



Petrolhead84 said:


> OP's father was not Irish and thus had assets both here and abroad - does this complicate things?


Yes it does.   There may be foreign wills, foreign grants of probate, and foreign executors.   The Irish grant might not take accoutn of foreign assets.



Petrolhead84 said:


> (P.S. I would appreciate if ''Frequent Posters'' were a bit more considerate.)


 
It would be great if you gave a bit of feedback on how you got on with all the contributions you got here.


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## zepplin

hi
as an initial search you could try the National Archives link:

nationalarchives.ie

then look for online databases then probate offices

to see if probate has been taken out. You will not see the will. Also no address will be given . But you should be able to narrow it down using your fathers name to see if probate was taken out in that name. 

from National archives site:
"The Testamentary Index from 1983 contains details of all testamentary  records held by the National Archives from the year 1983 onwards."


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## Petrolhead84

zepplin said:


> hi
> as an initial search you could try the National Archives link:
> 
> nationalarchives.ie
> 
> then look for online databases then probate offices
> 
> to see if probate has been taken out. You will not see the will. Also no address will be given . But you should be able to narrow it down using your fathers name to see if probate was taken out in that name.
> 
> from National archives site:
> "The Testamentary Index from 1983 contains details of all testamentary records held by the National Archives from the year 1983 onwards."


 
Thanks Zepplin.

His name does not show up.


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## mercman

Petrol, as already mentioned, you really do need to employ the services of a good solicitor to check, verify and confirm matters. This your late father in discussion, for which he deserves respect and dignity afforded to him.

From what you have stated already, this debacle appears a little bit smelly.


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## alpine

Petrolhead84, you never got back to let is know how you got on with your probate inquiries?


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