# Another bidding question.



## Minnie*** (17 Jan 2007)

There is a house on the market for 2-3 months. It's offers* over* 455k. At the minute there are no offers on it. Would 445 be too low considering it states over 455? We are having a second viewing today with a builder, should we offer while we're there or ring back in a day or two? 

Minnie.


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> There is a house on the market for 2-3 months. It's offers* over* 455k. At the minute there are no offers on it. Would 445 be too low considering it states over 455? We are having a second viewing today with a builder, should we offer while we're there or ring back in a day or two?
> 
> Minnie.


Why not offer €430,000?


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## phoenix_n (17 Jan 2007)

purplealien said:


> Why not offer €430,000?


 
And ring back in 4 days.


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## Howitzer (17 Jan 2007)

And then get a friend to ring in an offer of 415.


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## Minnie*** (17 Jan 2007)

Are ye serious could I really go this low without looking like a time waster?


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Of course - the property has been on for 3 months with no offers. he sellers will be relieved to have gotten a bid.


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## amgd28 (17 Jan 2007)

The estate agent is obliged to relay the bid directly to the vendors. One trick I learned is to submit a bid in writing with the booking deposit cheque attached - for some reason this is taken by estate agents as showing that you are extremely serious and is more likely to take the bid seriously.
For all we know, the vendors are desparate to sell as they are due to move in to new place. At the very least a low offer should anchor subsequent neogitations so that a 'compromise' ends up as being a good deal for you
Chance your arm!


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## Remix (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> There is a house on the market for 2-3 months. It's offers* over* 455k. At the minute there are no offers on it. Would 445 be too low considering it states over 455? We are having a second viewing today with a builder, should we offer while we're there or ring back in a day or two?
> 
> Minnie.


 
In just a couple of sentences above and with no eye contact or body language, I'm still getting the impression that you are quite keen on this property. Not good.

I'd addition to what's already been said, I'd suggest you put in an oscar-level performance of disinterest when dealing with them and under no circumstances give them the impression you are keen. Otherwise they'll go to work on you, you may find other "bidders" suddenly appear, and you could end up paying more than necessary.


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## phoenix_n (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Are ye serious could I really go this low without looking like a time waster?


 
For your own benefit it may be worth your while checking out [broken link removed]

Please dont discuss your findings(neg or positive) on this site though.


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Phoenix - why aren't there any prices for Cork, is it because this is just happening in Dublin?


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## phoenix_n (17 Jan 2007)

purplealien said:


> Phoenix - why aren't there any prices for Cork, is it because this is just happening in Dublin?


 
You would need to do research in that area yourself.


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Thanks Phoenixm - i'd been looking for that thread for the last few days.


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## Minnie*** (17 Jan 2007)

Thanks guys, We are vey keen. We'll view this eve and make an offer of 440k on Fri. 

No doubt I'll be back for more advice then!


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Thanks guys, We are vey keen. We'll view this eve and make an offer of 440k on Fri.
> 
> No doubt I'll be back for more advice then!


€440k is too much - at least bid €435.


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## comanche (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Thanks guys, We are vey keen. We'll view this eve and make an offer of 440k on Fri.
> 
> No doubt I'll be back for more advice then!



At least let the EA ring you back, don't go running to them... If they haven't rang you back in a week then you could ring them. But 440K is very keen.

In the days before everything got hyped it was normal to put in a bid 10% under asking.

An infact even in the UK now with them in a similar enough housing situtation, people tend to underbid - some people say that if you don't insult the vendor with your first bid somethings wrong! 

So my advise, take a step back and don't get emotionaly attached -there are loads of houses out there and prices are not rising as they were last Spring.


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## Minnie*** (17 Jan 2007)

OK, 435 it is...


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## soma (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Thanks guys, We are vey keen. We'll view this eve and make an offer of 440k on Fri.



Minnie - this is (I assume) the biggest financial transaction of your life so far. You owe it to yourself to *at least try* to get the best possible deal on all aspects of the transaction (price, mortgage rate, broker fees). Paying 10-30k less for a house most certainly adds up over the lifetime of a 25-40 year mortgage.

This house has been on the market for 3 months. There has to at least *some* creeping doubt in the mind of the vendor at this point, as a potential buyer you must exploit that. In previous years all power was with vendors and the majority of those (via their estate agents) had no qualms about extracting the highest price possible. In a buyer's market, you try to secure the lowest price possible.


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## purplealien (17 Jan 2007)

Come back and let us know how you get on.


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## Minnie*** (17 Jan 2007)

OK is 435 too high and why am I feeling so weak about offering this low. Do I just wait for the EA to ring me back and tell her we can only afford to go 430ish. What is she tells me it's offers of 455 or over, do I say fair enough get in touch if you change your mind?


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## comanche (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> OK is 435 too high and why am I feeling so weak about offering this low. Do I just wait for the EA to ring me back and tell her we can only afford to go 430ish. What is she tells me it's offers of 455 or over, do I say fair enough get in touch if you change your mind?



If the EA rings you back you know you are in more of a bargaining position.  I don't know the last time an EA rang back in the last few years.

Three years ago a friend was viewing a house, she had a heart set on another and only viewed it coz of pressure from her parents. She walked around and didn't really express any interest in it.

As it turned out the house she had her heart set on fell thru. The EA rang her back about the second house, and as it turned out the vendor was in a rush to move, so she got it for a good price.


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## phoenix_n (17 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> OK is 435 too high and why am I feeling so weak about offering this low. Do I just wait for the EA to ring me back and tell her we can only afford to go 430ish. What is she tells me it's offers of 455 or over, do I say fair enough get in touch if you change your mind?


 
If you will pay me 10% commission on what i could save you on the asking price, I will negotiate the sale for you.

I'd figure I would make an easy 3000-5000 in commission.


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

Viewed the house last night, told EA I'd contact her before the weekend so I'll not get in touch until Monday. 

Thanks for all the advice given so far. 

Minnie.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Viewed the house last night, told EA I'd contact her before the weekend so I'll not get in touch until Monday.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice given so far.
> 
> Minnie.


 
Nicely played. Wait till Tuesday. And put in an offer of 390-405K if you really like it. And then just wait. Dont get into a conversation with the Agent as he/she is probably a better negotiator. Make offer and finish the call.


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

505?? The asking price is only 455.


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## Guest118 (18 Jan 2007)

I wouldnt bid 505K either.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Typo !


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

Phoenix, I don't have any experience with sales of any kind but is 390-405 not _very_ low. Would I not be better offering 435 and letting them know that I am keen but not keen enough to pay out 455.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Would 445 be too low considering it states over 455?


 


Minnie*** said:


> Phoenix, I don't have any experience with sales of any kind but is 390-405 not _very_ low.


 
You have to decide. They can only say no.


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## Buddyboy (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> There is a house on the market for 2-3 months.  At the minute there are no offers on it.
> Minnie.


 
Minnie, I feel your pain. Went through the same thing last year.

Bid low,  THERE ARE NO OTHER OFFERS AFTER 3 MONTHS!.

He will get back to you if there is another bid.  *Remember, you are not bidding against anyone*.  If you bid too high, a bidder for the asking price might suddenly (miraculously) appear.

The worst thing you can do is let the EA know you are keen.

By bidding low, you can always up your bid. By bidding high, you can't lower the bid, and are giving money away that could go into the house.

Unless you want to play real hardball (which I don't get the impression you do), and tell them the bid is €450, and will reduce each week by €5.

I'd love to have been in a position to do that when I was buying.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Buddyboy said:


> Bid low, THERE ARE NO OTHER OFFERS AFTER 3 MONTHS!.
> 
> Unless you want to play real hardball (which I don't get the impression you do), and tell them the bid is €450, and will reduce each week by €5.


 
5K below asking price. Hardly bidding low. If that was the bid the agent would phone the next day and say that it was accepted and Minnie may just have thrown away 30-50K. How many hours do you work to make that money , dont forget income tax......and the interest on that extra money borrowed......etc.......

I'll say no more.


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

We have taken everything you've all said on board and we will make an offer of 430. Now do I just make my offer Tue (unless she rings tomorrow) and see what she says and what if she says there's no way they will accept that, do I just tell her that's my offer and leave it at that???


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## Sarah W (18 Jan 2007)

There's no need to wait until Tuesday. Just ring the agent, tell them you're interested in the house and you'd like them to advise the vendor of the offer of €430,000. Don't get into a conversation with the agent other than to let them know of your own situation (Is your house sold? Under offer? Are you approved for the new mortgage?). Ask them to confirm a reasonable timescale to come back to you - unless the vendor is out of the country this should be no later than Monday afternoon.

Then sit tight......

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## Howitzer (18 Jan 2007)

I hope the agent isn't watching this thread.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Howitzer said:


> I hope the agent isn't watching this thread.


 
Either way, I can't help feeling that the vendor will be quite happy to take 430.


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

What if she says I know they won't accept it?


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## comanche (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> What if she says I know they won't accept it?



Bottom line - what do you think the house is worth? Get it for under that and you have peace of mind with yourself. But don't be afraid to play hard ball, the opportunity is there now.


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## Dreamerb (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> What if she says I know they won't accept it?


Don't get drawn into a discussion on the basis of the EA's "knowledge" - tell her that's your offer and ask her to confirm that she will convey it to the vendors.


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## Sarah W (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> What if she says I know they won't accept it?



Say "nevertheless I would like you to put it to them and please come back to me on Monday as there are other houses I am viewing......"

Cool, cool, cool.

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

Placed a bid of 435! They will be in touch tomorrow.


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## phoenix_n (18 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Placed a bid of 435! They will be in touch tomorrow.


 
They will probably try to get more (expect call late morning) , but , if you hold tight, it will be yours for 435.

Still think you should have taken my advice but all the best in your purchase.


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## pjbrady1 (18 Jan 2007)

My landlord bought his house private sale with the following technique
Sellers secretary "Hello Mr X's office"
Landlord "Well I'd like to speak with X I have an offer to put in on house"
Sellers secretary "He's busy at the moment, can I get him to give you a call"
Landlord "Give him this message, I'll give him 200,000 for the house, he knows me, I don't give second chances, he's got till the end of the day good bye" - Phone down

Minnie, it is interesting that you were almost apologising for offering a low amount for the house. Only for the EA acting as a barrier between you and the seller you would have been able to pick it up for 430,000, have no doubt about that.


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## Minnie*** (18 Jan 2007)

I kinda got the feeling that I should have offered lower when I hung up but if I get it for even 440 I'll be more than happy. My plan is not to go any higher unless they tell me they have another bidder.


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## phoenix_n (19 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> I kinda got the feeling that I should have offered lower when I hung up but if I get it for even 440 I'll be more than happy. My plan is not to go any higher unless they tell me they have another bidder.


 
Did they get back to you ?


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## Minnie*** (19 Jan 2007)

Not yet. What do you think is that a good or a bad sign?!


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## phoenix_n (19 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> Not yet. What do you think is that a good or a bad sign?!


 
Do me a favour. If they come back looking for more tell them that is your final offer. Ask them to phone by Monday whether it will be accepted or not.

You can always phone back on tuesday offering more.


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## Minnie*** (19 Jan 2007)

No way to 435.... She didn't even try to get me to go up any further. She just said they said no and were hoping for offers over 455 but hoping to get 460!!! I said thats a pity and thanks very much for letting me know. I asked no questions and she didn't try to get me to go higher. 

What will I do now guys?????????


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## Howitzer (19 Jan 2007)

For a start, relax. If they receive another offer they'll let you know. Your's is the first offer they've received in 3 months, if they have to sell they'll sell.


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## whathome (19 Jan 2007)

I would keep in mind that the agent may view this thread.  From the numbers posted, your offer/strategy could be identified.


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## purplealien (20 Jan 2007)

minnie relax - do not ring again - they will ring back if they have another offer. Meantime have friends ring up and ask if there have been any offers t put your mind at rest.


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## Minnie*** (24 Jan 2007)

No word since last week. Friends have rang up and the EA said there are no bids on the house. We can't decide on what we should do next. I really get the feeling that they won't accept anything less than 455. We also heard they are building so maybe they are not in a big rush to sell. 

Why would the EA not tell people that there was a bid of 435 on it?... Maybe they think it's way too low and don't even want people thinking the bidding can start there. 

Any ideas on what to do next???

Minnie.


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## redo (24 Jan 2007)

House prices are falling, be prepared to wait in the long grass


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## amgd28 (24 Jan 2007)

Might be worth contacting the IAVI as to why the agent is misrepresenting the bidding position on the property. In view of the recent primetime special, you might get some answers.


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## Gordanus (24 Jan 2007)

hi Minnie, having been through this recently I feel for you!  Could you get yur friends to view and offer 430?  See what happens?  The best of luck to you!


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## niceoneted (24 Jan 2007)

Read this with great interest. Phoenix N your a legend minnie should be getting you to buy it for her. Minnie I'd be interested to know what your situation is. Are you renting and need to vacate or selling and havea closing date of sale? Interstingly I had lunch very recently with an EA and they are thinking of changing careers (and they love what they are doing) - I think it was their subtle way of telling me things weren't good for the market as I was trying to get loads of info. 
I'd sit tight on the offer. I'm looking at buying myself and I'm sitting tight on a few properties. No offers on them and I haven't made any.


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## Sarah W (25 Jan 2007)

Put the offer of €435,000 in writing to the EA and cc the letter to 'the owner' at the house address. If you have to do the EA's job for them then so be it.

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## Guest118 (25 Jan 2007)

Yeah thats good thinking.  Go over their head.  Go to a manager if needs be.


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## newkid30 (25 Jan 2007)

I was in a similar situation before Christmas, basically the EA said our first offer was ridiculous. God love him he was a bit thick and between myself & hubby we found out how much the property had gone sale agreed for in June (this fell through as purchasers finance didnt work out.)

We then topped 7K onto our original offer - still below asking price and said it was our final offer, it was accepted.

I know this wouldnt always work and EAs differ - as I said ours was more than a bit dim!

BUT we also had another property we were bidding on where they kept pushing it up and up and up, then he rang and lied it was sale agreed, I see that property is now back on the market for less than our final bid.

That seller was in no rush and IMO very greedy, the EA was no better, and had his eye firmly fixed on his commission.

I think it is up to us the public to play them at their own game, they have had it too easy for too long. We shouldn't be afraid to offer less, most properties are so overvalued as it is.

When we were selling our EA was extremely pushy and insisted on marketing out property for about 15K more than I would have dreamed of asking for, I felt sick! In fairness it worked out but they really have been causing alot of the price escalation for along time!!

Just my tuppence worth


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## Mavis (25 Jan 2007)

Hi everyone, i have bought a munber of properties over the last few years and have used various techniques in relation to the purchase, i find that if you are confident and have a sound knowledge in relation to the property market in your chosen area and also know the various EA,s you can easly play them at there own game.

Late last summer i was driving around Wexford and came across a property where the EA was erecting his sign and the vender looking on in approval, i went for lunch and returned when the cost was clear. i spoke to the vendor and got all the details then made a list of a areas of concern and contacted Wexford Co Co to find out if there were and plans for the area i.e planning developments, social housing, road widening etc and got the all clear i than made an offer direct to the vendor and stated that i was a cash buyer and would not increase my offer and if i did not get a positive decision within 1 week the offer was off the table.

I am now the proud owner of a holiday home in the sunny south east with planning permission pending to upgrade the site


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## purplealien (29 Jan 2007)

Any news yet Minnie?


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## Minnie*** (29 Jan 2007)

No news yet. 

The good news is another house in the area has come onto the market. I still prefer house no1 but it's taken the pressure off me a bit. I don't feel like I should be running to the EA with another bid for house no1 now that I have a back up plan. 

Thanks for everyone's opinions so far. I will keep you all up to date with any changes. 

Minnie.


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## beattie (29 Jan 2007)

Minnie*** said:


> No news yet.
> 
> The good news is another house in the area has come onto the market. I still prefer house no1 but it's taken the pressure off me a bit. I don't feel like I should be running to the EA with another bid for house no1 now that I have a back up plan.
> 
> ...


 
Is it the same price as house No1?


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## Minnie*** (29 Jan 2007)

No, it's 50k less. It needs more work than no1 but it would be the same standard with 50k or less spent on it. My husband perfers no2 but I still really perfer no1.


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## delboy159 (29 Jan 2007)

Just to let you get a sellesr perspective.  

I put my house on the market in September - lots of viewings, no offers.  I saw things were getting bad before a lot of other people did and was prepared to go 40k under my asking if things hadn't sold by Jan 07 (luckily someone offered just under the asking in November, accepted straight away - we are just about to close... fingers crossed).

Anyway.  I contacted EAs who had similar houses for sale in the area and made offers - I pitched myself like you - interested but not too keen -but I was only doing it to test the water (as I said above - I sensed things were bad in the market).  A house that was looking for 485k went on the market the same time as mine.  I rang and offered 470k, just to see what the reaction would be.  The EA said what you have said you were told!  Looking for 485k, but expect it to get close or over 500k....  I was delighted they said that - would make my property easier to sell.  

Here's the funny bit - that EA reduced the price from 485k to 465k last week on myhome.ie.  Considering their sudden drop in price I'd bet they would be open to a 450k offer now! 

Just to show you - things may change, especially with a 2nd property in the area now on the market!  you can play both of them against each other.....  You could actually withdraw your 435k bid and say you are putting all your interest in this new property as they are more open to negotiation!!!!  

Best of luck, I hope it all works out for you...


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## Minnie*** (31 Jan 2007)

Thanks for that Delboy!

God I really don't know what to do. We need to go back with another offer before the weekend. I really think they won't accept anything less than the asking price but dh reckons that the EA is just doing a good job! 

This is really wrecking my head and we haven't a clue what to do next. I think we're gonna go and offer them what they want. Someone tell me I'm stone mad or maybe I'm not...


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## redo (31 Jan 2007)

Tell them that your existing bid will expire this friday around 3pm.  Put the pressure back on them.  There is loads of fine houses out there and the prices are steadily coming down.


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## phoenix_n (31 Jan 2007)

Your issue is simple really. You appear to really want this particular property so it boils down to supply and demand. You demand this one particular property. There is only one supply of this property. Thus you dont really have much choice but to offer the asking price or open your supply to other properties.

Thus its not really a mad decision on your part since no other properties in the suburb or county meets your exact demand.


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## Howitzer (31 Jan 2007)

phoenix_n said:


> Your issue is simple really. You appear to really want this particular property so it boils down to supply and demand. You demand this one particular property. There is only one supply of this property. Thus you dont really have much choice but to offer the asking price or open your supply to other properties.
> 
> Thus its not really a mad decision on your part since no other properties in the suburb or county meets your exact demand.


 
Except there are no other bidders. Supply and demand is one thing but simply having some semblence of patience is another. Why can't you wait another week or so with your existing offer? They're the ones looking to sell. They're the ones currently paying the mortgage. What's it costing you to wait in the current market? Nothing. What will it cost you to make another offer at the asking price? 20K? That could be a years net wages to some people.

You're probably making the biggest financial transaction of your life, it's not like buying a Mars bar, think of the financial consequences of your actions.


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## amgd28 (31 Jan 2007)

I concur with Howitzer.
Minnie - have you catalogued the real differences between house and house 2? If it is just a case of carpets, walls and stuff like that, you could transform the house for a lot less than the extra 50k house 1 is asking. In addition, you can do it at your own pace, and feel you have 'put your stamp' on the property.
Just think about it, paint and new floors can transform a house for less than a few grand.
I'd suggest you withdraw the offer on Friday. You don't have anything to lose and ultimately you need to call the EA's bluff. You can submit a lower offer the following week, to really put the sh*ts up them!


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## purplealien (31 Jan 2007)

also tell him you have an interest in the other house - it's €50,000 lower! Do ou realise the amount of stuff you can do to a house with that amount of money! Some suggestions  - 
Hot tub and decking - €5,500
Attic conversion - €13,000
New kitchen - €15,000
Conservatory - €16,000
That amounts to  €49,500 - some spare change to bu yourself some new clothes!!


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## gearoidmm (31 Jan 2007)

amgd28 said:


> I concur with Howitzer.
> Minnie - have you catalogued the real differences between house and house 2? If it is just a case of carpets, walls and stuff like that, you could transform the house for a lot less than the extra 50k house 1 is asking. In addition, you can do it at your own pace, and feel you have 'put your stamp' on the property.
> Just think about it, paint and new floors can transform a house for less than a few grand.
> I'd suggest you withdraw the offer on Friday. You don't have anything to lose and ultimately you need to call the EA's bluff. You can submit a lower offer the following week, to really put the sh*ts up them!



Not to mention that you could put an offer in 10K less than the asking on the other house and potentially save 60,000 euros.


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## purplealien (3 Feb 2007)

Minnie - what's the story now? You're way too quie for my liking! Have you paid full price for the first house?


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## Minnie*** (4 Feb 2007)

We have decided we do want the 1st house. We offered another 5k Friday and they still turned it down but that is our last offer for now. My Dad told me there is no point in bidding against yourself especially since no one else is bidding on it. So now we have to wait it out and see what they'll do next. My biggest fear is that someone else will look at it and a bidding war will start.


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## mayway (5 Feb 2007)

Don't be bidding against yourself! Once you start that the vendor will be in no hurry to accept your offer.


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