# Advice on getting a puppy?



## Cashstrapped (17 Nov 2006)

I have a 10yr old who has my heart broke looking for a puppy for the last 2 years, while she is a very responsible child I have resisted getting one on the grounds that we live in a housing estate and have a relatively small back garden (newly built house so the usual size these days).  I also do not wish to have it in the house and that in itself restricts the type of dog we could get.

I would appreciate views on any dog that would be suitable (if any) for a small garden, be an outdoor dog and child friendly as I also have a 2 year old.

Just for the record this is not anything to do with a Christmas Present.

Thanks!


----------



## Decani (17 Nov 2006)

You should check out Paws. They'd probably know what would suit your needs as well as being a good place to get a dog.

But if you've a small garden and you don't want it indoors, I'm not so sure there would be many options open to you. Unless there was someone at home during the day to keep the dog company. 

We'd love to have a dog but we realise that we just don't have enough room and would rather have the space outdoors to let him/her go for a good run. When we lived in Sallins we looked after a dog for a couple of months and took her out to the bog out by Prosperous for about 40 mins 2 or 3 times a week.

Whatever you do here, don't ask for advice on getting a poppy


----------



## Eurofan (17 Nov 2006)

Please _don't_ get her a dog if it is to be condemned to a life outside in a small garden particularly if it is being left alone for extended periods during the day. While i appreciate the pressure a child can bring to have a puppy any dog should be an integral part of the family unit. Bear in mind too that however responsible she may be *you* will bear the onus of caring for this dog, feeding, medical care, daily walks etc. etc.


----------



## Lumpsum (17 Nov 2006)

You won't get the friendly cuddly family dog your daughter wants if it's kept outside, barking, digging, shivering and generally going nuts. Why do you want it outside?


----------



## levelpar (17 Nov 2006)

> I would appreciate views on any dog that would be suitable (if any) for a small garden, be an outdoor dog and child friendly as I also have a 2 year old.


 
I dont believe you can have a PET and keep it outdoors . Also ,having had dogs most of my life , I can tell you that the novelty wears off quickly with children and you will end up exercising the dog 7days a week for as long as the dog lives ,not to mentioned your pooper scooper to clean up the dog's mess outdoor and for accidents if the dog gets indoor. Remember also, you usually cant take a dog on holidays if you go foreign  I love dogs but there are not toys


----------



## askalot (17 Nov 2006)

Why do you want a dog if you don't want it in the house? Not much of a life for a family pet if it is shut out in the garden away from the family. Your child will get over not having a dog, rather that than an animal suffering.


----------



## panathon (18 Nov 2006)

Tricky question. I absolutely don't agree the need of a 'house dog'. A dog by nature does not need to live within the house environment to thrive and it is not hygenic or practical and I have owned dogs all my life also. It is also a fact that dogs who live within the house have a shorter lifespan. They need to be exposed to natural bacterium to create a hardy constitution. They do not need to be treated as humans which many people assume. Ultimately dogs will accept whatever pattern you impose upon them. If you decide to bring them into the house on a particularly cold night and sit them in front of the fire then that is their treat, they will readapt to whatever structure you create.

I disagree with levelpar's post ie -  your pet can be completely kept outside and should be, I agree though on their point that a 10 year old's interest may wane and you have to want the dog yourself as the adult and be prepared to mind it if they lose interest and you may know how likely that is from your own child- they may actually adore that pet until it dies or else it's just a fad. I think from experience the 10 year old will take on this pet and know their own mind. If it's a small garden it has to be taken out daily and you need to have a green area near you.

As for veterinary fees, you need to do all the initial innoculations if you take on a pup, but beyond that, the only forseeable expense is something that may go wrong unexpectedly. There is no other expense.

As for breeds there are two ways to take this. Obviously you need a small breed as you have a small garden. If you have a younger child than the ten year old in the house then be extra careful. No matter how loved or placid any dog appears to be - a new dog will be seeking it's place in the family hierarchy as the law of nature. It will respond to one person in the family more than any others as the boss and that will become apparent over time. Usually the person who feeds it. 

If you intend to spend money on a breed (and that will be a be few hundred quid) then I would recommend a west highland terrier, equally comfortable indoors or outdoors and a very easy-natured breed. Daschunds, very easy to fall in love with but not as hardy and may have some health problems, but suitable for a child. Jack russells are one of the most adaptable small breeds, if you get the dog young then great, train it, but they need exercise. They are very ok being left alone, as they entertain themselves through a leaf falling off a tree to stalking a bird in the garden . And that yorkshire terrier thing! They are a self-sufficient breed, but are portrayed like poodles, they are a well rounded dog, corgis are ok too but can get lazy, but good with people.

Alternatively go to an animal welfare society and explain the situation. Contrary to popular opinion they don't just give dogs away, and may have a dog to suit your needs, as they will know the dogs personality.

Personally I would go for a female jack russell pup, who would be feisty enough to act as a guard dog (their brains are bigger than than size!) but trained and loved from the beginning and they are extremely loyal and intelligent. They are not house dogs and were never bred for that, they like pampering but are very independent.

Hope that helps
Panathon


----------



## Cashstrapped (18 Nov 2006)

Thanks to all for your replies and advice.  I can totally understand the points raised regarding the dog being left outside but this is for two reasons, firstly on hygiene grounds and secondly, I think it would surely be better for a dog to have the run of a back garden than the sitting room of a home when were not here to look after it.

I think my next stop will be to bring my daughter to somewhere like the Animal Welfare Society/ISPCA so they can talk through the responsibilty involved in owning and looking after a dog before any hasty decisions are made.

Thanks again.


----------



## Sue Ellen (18 Nov 2006)

Panathon,

As you know so much about dogs and cashstrapped's question appears to have been answered can you give me some general advice about springer spaniels? He was very badly treated before we got him and he is recovering slowly. They appear to be double jointed? I have read that they are pups all their lives?


----------



## jake108 (18 Nov 2006)

Eurofan said:


> Please _don't_ get her a dog if it is to be condemned to a life outside in a small garden particularly if it is being left alone for extended periods during the day. While i appreciate the pressure a child can bring to have a puppy any dog should be an integral part of the family unit. Bear in mind too that however responsible she may be *you* will bear the onus of caring for this dog, feeding, medical care, daily walks etc. etc.


 

Totally agree. Dogs are social animals. When they're not socialised they can become bored/vicious etc. How would you feel being locked up in a small garden all day? Huge commitment to take on for up to 15 years. As she grows up her priorities will change.


----------



## levelpar (18 Nov 2006)

Can't agree with Panathon on keeping  a dog outside IF  the intention is for the 10 yr old to have a PET. 



> If you decide to bring them into the house on a particularly cold night and sit them in front of the fire then that is their treat, they will readapt to whatever structure you create


.

On the above , I would imagine that if any dog was brought into the warmth of a fire on what you might consider a cold night, he would want this "treat" every night.


----------



## MOB (18 Nov 2006)

"Ultimately dogs will accept whatever pattern you impose upon them. If you decide to bring them into the house on a particularly cold night and sit them in front of the fire then that is their treat"

I sort of half disagree with this.   Dogs need structure.  By instinct, they want to be in a hierarchy -  A dog is happiest when he knows his place (whether that be lording it in his own armchair in the sittingroom or sitting on the doorstep or perhaps just inside the back door - I have seen dogs who know they are permitted into the utility room and no further, and they observe the rules quite well).  If a dog is permitted into the house but only rarely, his natural instinct is to try to retain this higher status, by pawing at the door, yapping and trying to get in.  Of course the dog will adapt, but I don't think this would be fair on him.  Better, I think, not to give the dog conflicting signals.


----------



## amcs (18 Nov 2006)

cashstrapped - one other dog worth considering at is a "maltese", They are long haired, but can be kept pet cut ( short ). excellent with kids and dont shed hair. We also went to dog shows, vets, etc and asked owners about their pets, walking in the parks ! Process of elimination brought us to the Maltese.


----------



## PetPal (18 Nov 2006)

A dog is a social animal, as has been said before.  Please do not get a dog if you will not welcome it into your family and into your home.  You say that a dog would be happier running around a garden than he would be in a house where nobody was home to keep him company.  You're right .... given those two choices, he'd probably be better in the garden.  However, and this is so important and (I would have thought) so obvious, you really should not have a dog if nobody is there all day to keep it company!!  A dog wants company and love FAR MORE than it wants garden space.


----------



## ramble (19 Nov 2006)

Do you have any neighbours or friends with dogs?  You/your daughter could offer to walk the dog for them a few times a week.  Make a committment to do it for say 2 months. At this time of year, with a poop scoop, the need for a dog will soon wear thin. I love dogs but wouldn't have one in a housing estate.

Fish make good pets, for all ages, the 2 year old will love them and the 10 year old can learn a lot in looking after them, a warm water aquarium needs a bit of work, about enough for a 10 year old.  The fish need replacing now and again so she will enjoy picking new ones every 6 months or so.   Good way to learn about life and death.  If the fish are well looked after they last a long time, if not they die.


----------



## Alias (20 Nov 2006)

Please also keep your neighbours in mind when thinking of having a dog outside all the time.  My neighbours have two jack russell terriers which are outside all day.  The noise they make at all hours is maddening.


----------



## polo9n (20 Nov 2006)

not being harsh on you and the child. having a dog is utmost like having another child..the VET bill/Food/barking...
i don't think this is a good time for ur child and u to have a dog rite now.
maybe a smaller animal, maybe a fish or something? regarding bringing ur child to RSPCA to have a chat may probably reinforced her thought of having one..i think that may not be a great idea as Children do not think rationally yet! maybe when ur child have grown up and able to looking herself oneday, then u can consider about a dog!


----------



## michaelm (20 Nov 2006)

I think that ultimately you will regret the day you ever got a dog.  The closest thing I would get to a dog would be one of these . .  http://www.21stcentury.co.uk/robotics/icybie.asp


----------



## Cashstrapped (20 Nov 2006)

Thanks again to all of you for your input some great advice and alot of things I hadn't thought of myself even as an adult so it def. will be put on the back burner for the forseeable future. 

MICHAELM I think you may have sorted 2 problems for me, her need for a dog and my need to find something for her from Santa!! What a great idea these are I think she will be over awwed with it and I don't need any poop scoop, vets bills or worrying about it upsetting the neighbours so I think I may be onto a winner.


----------



## Thirsty (20 Nov 2006)

Why not consider a cat?  

Even if you don't consider yourself a 'cat' person they can grow on you and are a lot easier to care for than a dog


----------



## suileglasa (20 Nov 2006)

I think Kildrought's suggestion about considering a cat is worth looking at and also Ramble's suggestion is excellent. 

If, after weighing everything up, you do decide to get a dog contact a shelter such as paws.ie or   The volunteers there know the personality of each and every dog that they have there and will match one to any prospective owner.  Also, if the adoption doesn't work out, they will take the dog back.  You can also check out the help page on my site at [broken link removed] for lists of shelters and rescues.

Let us know what you decide.


----------



## panathon (24 Nov 2006)

Not to keep going on and on, but if the pre-requisite to owning a dog is that it be a house dog and also that it needs somebody around all day - then very few people would be able to have a dog as a pet at all. They are not hamsters. For example if this is the requirement, then anyone in a 4 story apartment block would fit the bill, so why is this frowned on. Dogs are not dolls, they need air and the outdoors. if you walk them twice a day and they have backdoor space to live in then there should be no issue. I love dogs and have had many, so I hope I am don't appear to be dismissive or not aware of a dogs best interests here. 

Anyway as suileglasa said the best thing maybe to approach a shelter with requirements outlined.


----------



## Marie (25 Nov 2006)

Invariably these posts on "getting a dog" are distressing as they appear not to recognise the reality and needs of canines which a number of posters have put very clearly.

I do think the original poster's issue is around not being able to resist pressure from - and instill some sense of realism into! -  a 10-year-old child.  Whatever animal or breed is chosen is irrelevant as it is about the parent/child relationship.

When my nieces and nephews demanded "pets" when they were children my sensible brother introduced World Wildlife projects of sponsoring endangered species.  The children learned a great deal about geography, history, ethnology and the realities of the world around them and conservation knowledge and efforts got a bit more funding.

It also meant there was one less broken-hearted dog cooped in lifelong misery in a Dublin back-yard.

By the way the advice about a dog (or any animal or 'pet') needing expensive veterinary attention only for innoculation is far from the truth.  My much-loved 16-year-old mongrel bitch died a few months ago.  I had found her abandoned in a Dublin street in January 1991. For the last three years of her life she was (as any of us will be if we reach 100 years of age!) frail and slow and needing a good deal of veterinary attention.  As the animal protection-society slogan puts it:-  "A dog is not just for Christmas: it's for life!"  A dog (or any pet you get!) does not stay young or "a pup".  It has changing needs throughout what can often be a long life.

Please - in the circumstances and with the attitudes you have described - DON'T GET A DOG!


----------



## Con (25 Nov 2006)

Don't do it... dogs are for the country, if you have any consideration for your neighbours sleep then don't get the dog.


----------



## PM1234 (25 Nov 2006)

There are animal shelters that you can go to and choose a dog and bring it for a walk and then back to the shelter again. There used be one in Rathfarnham. Would this possibly be a solution ie the child gets enjoyment from the dog and the dog benefits from one to one social interaction. It may be a good learning tool at the very least. You could obtain details from the ISPCA.


----------



## Sue Ellen (26 Nov 2006)

Marie said:


> My much-loved 16-year-old mongrel bitch died a few months ago.


 
Marie,

Sorry to hear this. It must have been very upsetting.

Sueellen,
Serious Dog Lover.


----------



## Cashstrapped (26 Nov 2006)

Marie said:
			
		

> I do think the original poster's issue is around not being able to resist pressure from - and instill some sense of realism into! - a 10-year-old child. Whatever animal or breed is chosen is irrelevant as it is about the parent/child relationship.
> 
> Please - in the circumstances and with the attitudes you have described - DON'T GET A DOG!


 
I take great exception to your quote regarding me as a parent and hope for all animals that come your way you are a better judge of animals than you are of people. I am lost as what attitude you think I have that makes me un-qualified to even consider owning a dog or any pet.

For the record I was looking for advice, it was nothing to do with my relationship with my 10 year old child it was to get peoples oponions on the pros and cons of owning and looking after a dog which the majority of posters gave without any personal attack on a 10year old child.

For the record my child has given up her christmas present from her Aunts & Uncles each year for the last 5 years and donates it to the Animal Shelter in Dublin, stand up on your soapbox and show me many 10year old children that do this. She also applied to the local ISPCA to do voluntary weekend work.

For the record I do not live in Dublin and would even consider having a dog or any other animal if I did not think it could have the love and attention it needed.

For the record if "my attitude" was as you think do you not think I would already have a pet and I wouldn't be looking for advice.

To all that have provided the honesty of owning a pet THANK YOU.


----------



## suemoo (28 Nov 2006)

Hi there......

I was that 10 year old child once, who sobbed cried, pleaded and eventally refused to speak to anyone (for nealy two months) until my parents eventally relented and got me a puppy.

Now i must start by saying that that dog (Eddie) brought an unbeliveable amount of joy to my life and to this day and for the rest of my days I will always own a dog.....

However...........

Eddie, was a normal dog. He chewed,wrecked, dug holes,got ill, needed walking each day,jumped all over you when he was covered in mud. He smelled, (even after constant bathing) he was noisy and for my parents he was expensive. he also broke the entire familys heart when he passed away........  

We lived in a normal house with a small back garden, you cannot leave a dog in a small back garden....the dog will go nuts. you can however just allow it to be in the kitchen and your garden as I do.

At the end of the day, if you get this dog, *it will be your dog,* *not you*r *childs*...........if you do not want the reposnabilty *DO NOT GET A DOG.*
they are hard work, but are worth it : ) 

do contact PAWS so advice on a breed as some breeds look cute but are stone mad and are not suited to a family home (think endless digging and chewing as your dog is a Hyper highly energitic breed) 

I think on balance a dog is a wonderful addition to a family, but they are an addtion!! much the same as another child. 

If you cant cope with all the hassle that goes with a Dog i would suggest a cat instead, they are much easier to look after and are happy to be outside (iv approx 5 owned cats and 3 dogs over  the past twenty years) 

Best of luck
Suemoo

ps: I do feel that fact that you are researching the issue is a good indicator that you take this issue serisoulsy so you will make the right decision : )


----------



## r2d2 (28 Nov 2006)

suemoo said:


> Hi there......
> 
> I was that 10 year old child once, who sobbed cried, pleaded and eventally refused to speak to anyone (for nealy two months) until my parents eventally relented and got me a puppy.
> 
> Now i must start by saying that that dog (Eddie) brought an unbeliveable amount of joy to my life and to this day and for the rest of my days I will always own a dog...


 
Hi All,

In a very similar position to the original poster, my 13 year old daughter has wanted a dog for about the last three years. Having decided to wait until we were happier that she could show the necessary responsibility to own a dog and having gone through every single plus and minus that we could think of , we have finally made a 'family' decision to get one. Believe me, there were many pro's and con's to weigh up and like suemoo, both myself and my wife both had dogs growing up and could see all the bonding/loyalty advantages but I guess we wanted to insure that there was no 'fad' element to this. My daughter is over the moon but amazed us by saying that she wanted to wait until she could give a good home to a dog that had been unwisely given as a Christmas present....!! She's either a very sensible compassionate child or a Minister of Finance in the making !  

r2d2


----------



## panathon (2 Dec 2006)

A cat and a dog are extremely different creatures, forget the cat suggestion. I was 10 years old once, I wanted a dog, not a cat, not a rabbit, not a goldfish - I cared for  my dog and many mistreated dogs after it and I am glad my parents believed me - 20 years on! Give her her chance - tell me if its not working  and I will take the dog  but u know your child she may gvie a damn.


----------



## gar123 (2 Dec 2006)

we got one of our dogs at  you can even sponsor dogs if you cant take one home

we have an alsation and a lab now hard wor but fun


----------



## tinkerbell (2 Dec 2006)

You have a two year old  and want the puppy to be an outdoor dog.  No rescue that I know of will give a dog/puppy to on those grounds to be honest.   Under the right circumstances dogs can spend a lot of time outdoors if they have other canines to play with and have a good sized garden but without adequate social conditions, any puppy will turn out troublesome if left outdoors too much.  A puppy left outside for hours and then mingles with children from 2 to 10 in age will display problems and then who will be the bad doggy?  Puppies grow very quickly into teenage like young dogs full of chewing, jumping, peeing and other things children and adults don't like unless they are constantly checked and trained properly when of course is not possible if kept outdoors.   Make sure you talk to experienced animal people please before any final decisions. They will tell you up front the pros and cons.  Otherwise your children and of course the puppy will not be happy!  Animal shelters like ASH, Paws, etc. are jam packed with puppies and dogs who people selected to suit their lifestyles and then disgarded when proved unsuitable.   You are very wise to ask on this board and I implore you to continue your research before taking a puppy on board.


----------



## HighFlier (2 Dec 2006)

Firstly I agree with other posters...Do not get a dog unless you are prepared for a long term commitment. That said we have had many dogs down through the years including small suburban environments.

The key is to get a dog that suits your circumstances..

If I might be so bold as to make a suggestion the best and most suitable dogs we have ever had ( And we are on our second now) for similar environments is a "Bichon Frise". They look like a small scotch terrier when their hair is long and a bit like a poodle when trimmed but in fact are no relation to either. Small. White, Non shedding (which is critical if you are going to have him indoors) intelligent, easy to train ( the only breed I know who can walk around on 2 legs without virtually any training)  We made our mistakes in the past but these are lovely animals and exceptionally good with children. Do a google for more info.


----------



## thewatcher (2 Dec 2006)

HighFlier said:


> If I might be so bold as to make a suggestion the best and most suitable dogs we have ever had ( And we are on our second now) for similar environments is a "Bichon Frise".


 
We have had them,lovely dogs but under no circumstances are they an outdoor dog.If you aren't going to let it live indoors don't buy one of these and if you don't give them loads of attention they will turn into little gremlins.They love attention and to run the show if let.


----------



## Cashstrapped (3 Dec 2006)

Hi All,

Thanks again for your continued feedback, just to update on the situation.  It has been agreed that for the forseeable future there will be no dog in the Cashstapped household, we visited 2 Dog Shelters in our region and spoke to workers there.  They went through in detail the requirements for owning and looking after all types of pets.  I think seeing so many dogs in the shelters had an amazing effect on her and although she would loved to have as she put it herself "saved them all" it also brought home the reality of how many dogs are unwanted for one reason or another.  We have also agreed with a neighbour who has a dog that we bring him for a walk and with our help our daughter will care for him if they go away for a weekend.

Thanks again


----------



## jake108 (4 Dec 2006)

Hi Cashstrapped,

Just have to say I admire you for bringing her to the dog shelter. It's heartbreaking to see how these poor animals end up. She seems like a very responsible little girl and is a credit to you. I hope she gets her wish at some stage. (In saying that I don't agree with locking dogs in back gardens.) I don't know if you've ever been to ASH in Wicklow. If you haven't, you should drive out one day and see the fantastic work Helena and Remi do. Honestly it would warm your heart. I think they look for volunteers to help with the dogs so you could give them a ring and bring your little girl. You can sponsor dogs for a very small fee through their website. I was up there a while ago and like your little girl, I also wanted to "take them all". I couldn't do that so I took one little fella and he is just great! For anyone that has a love of animals I would recommend having a look at their site. www.ashanimalrescue.com These people dedicate their lives to saving these dogs. We should all just take a few minutes to read about their fantastic work. By the way I have no connection with ASH, I just love animals!


----------



## Eurofan (4 Dec 2006)

Cashstrapped, fantastic approach and well done. If a lot more parents were as thoughtful as you we'd never have the animal shelters to begin with.


----------



## tinkerbell (4 Dec 2006)

Agree - wish more people were as good as you when it came to pets!!  As for ASH I am a great fan of theirs too - check out Desperate Houses on RTE on 22 December AFAIK.   They feature this wonderful rescue in a bit of a face lift for their home which also is the rescue.  You will get sound advice from them if you visit about children and pets, type of dog suitable and where to house him, etc.  They currently have over 120 dogs, many of whom were once lovely puppies but grew into lively jumpy dogs who weren't wanted anymore.  But like any rescue they will only rehome dogs/puppies to homes and families that are suitable and that will usually involve a homecheck so that all questions, etc. can be anwered by the would be owner and that the rescue are reasonably confident they can cope with the new pet.  Its a huge committment and caution is always needed - best of luck   Don't forget to visit the ASH website and remember, any donation, no matter how small, is so welcomed in the care of their many animals.   Maybe your little girl may like to buy their christmas cards or donate?   It really makes a huge difference to ASH


----------



## jake108 (7 Dec 2006)

Yes tinkerbell it's on 22nd December. Really looking forward to seeing it. Will be sending my Christmas card and donation next week. In a country that is apparently booming it's a shame more can't be done to help these people with their wonderful work.


----------

