# PRSI Case D "Entitlements" - are there any?



## DB74

I'm searched the forum but can't find anything definitive on this subject.

What exactly is a Class D (Public service pre 1995) PRSI contributor entitled to? The 3 main areas I am concerned about are:

1. State Pension. As far as I can make out , they are NOT entitled to the Contributory State Pension but I presume that they get something else from the State in the form of a pension

2. Disability/Illness. Are they entitled to any disability or illness benefit at all if they have to give up work as a result of a serious illness. The leaflet on the Social Welfare site seems to indicate that it is only Class A,E,H contributors who are entitled to anything.

3. Rent Allowance. Probably not the right section for this aspect but is the renta llowance paid to tenants with little or no income dependent on the PRSI scheme in any way

It seems incredible that somebody can work as an employee for the State for 40+ years and actually end up being entitled to little or nothing when they really need it.


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## gipimann

1. Class D contributions (on their own) do not entitle you to a Contributory State Pension. Depending on circumstances, you may be eligible for a non-contributory (means-tested) State Pension. Public servants pay Superannuation (at 5% or 6.5%) so pension is paid by the employer - at max rate it is generally 50% of salary.

2. No entitlement to illness benefit or invalidity pension. There may be an entitlement to Disability Allowance which is means tested. If person retires on health grounds, they may be entitled to a pension from their employer based on years of service but this isn't connected to PRSI payments.

3. Rent Supplement is a means-tested scheme, and entitlement is based on income (as well as other criteria), not on PRSI contributions.


Class D contributions do count for the following schemes:

Widow's or Widower's (Contributory) Pension
Guardian's Payment (Contributory)
Occupational Injuries Benefits
Bereavement Grant
Carer's Benefit
The rate of payment for Class D contributions is lower than Class A, so the benefits are fewer.


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## Towger

..


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## gipimann

Just to add a useful link to SW website which explains all the PRSI classes and benefits.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/Pages/prsiclasses.aspx


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## DB74

Thanks gipimann (and Towger!)

So, just to clarify, Public Servants who have paid Class D PRSI will get a pension from the State, but it is an Employer's pension and their employer was the State. It's just not the State Pension as we know it?

One other quick question on the rent allowance. Is it possible to get pre-approval for rent allowance before you actually start renting somewhere or do you have to be renting first and then apply?


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## DB74

gipimann said:


> Just to add a useful link to SW website which explains all the PRSI classes and benefits.
> 
> http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/Pages/prsiclasses.aspx


 
I had a look at that last night actually but couldn't understand how some contributors were entitled to little or nothing despite having been in employment (as opposed to self-employed) for all their working life. There was no option _but_ to be Class D if you had a Civil Service job. For the ordinary man on the street who just wants to go a do his/her days work and assumes his PRSI will cover everything, it comes as a bit of a shock when you realise that you been paying into a system which is giving you nothing back.

So I was looking for clarification on a few issues.

Thanks again.


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## gipimann

Public servants get a pension from their employer (e.g. HSE, Local Authority), which is paid from public funds - slightly different than a State Pension, which is paid by Dept of Social Protection.

Civil service pensions are paid by the Paymaster General (I think - perhaps a civil servant could confirm?).

No, there is no pre-approval for Rent Supplement.


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## DB74

Thanks again gipimann

Would somebody who works for a county council be regarded as a Public Servant or a Civil Servant?

This is probably a very basic question but I have very basic knowledge and the terms are used so interchangeably in Ireland.


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## Black Sheep

Civil/Public servants who have worked for 40 years in the service are entitled to a public service pension which is 50% of their final salary (that is about to change) having paid a lower rate (Class D) of PRSI during their working lives.

People in private employment pay the higher rate of PRSI for perhaps 48 years and their only entitlement is the State Pension of E230.30 P.W.


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## DB74

Thanks for that Black Sheep. I was aware that there were generous pension entitlements for Civil/Public servants - just didn't understand the mechanics of it and got a bit of a shock when I read that you get no State pension. 

It was more the Illness Benefit aspect that I thought was a bit strange in terms of lack of entitlements.


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## Berni

DB74 said:


> It was more the Illness Benefit aspect that I thought was a bit strange in terms of lack of entitlements.



You would have paid sick leave for a certain length (6 months?), then half pay for another 6, and then if it was determined that you were no longer fit to do your job, you would retire early on grounds of illness.


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## DB74

Thanks for that Berni.

The person in question took advantage of the early retirement option which became available to Public/Civil servants in the last few years. They then went travelling and became very ill and want to come back to Ireland for treatment.

They are not yet 65 and only worked in the Civil Service for approx 15 years (left in 2009) and I am trying to find out what they are entitled to between now and 66 when their pension entitlements will kick in.

Are they entitled to anything or does the fact that they took early retirement mean that they are not entitled to anything?

If they took early retirement then can I assume that their Public Service pension is already being paid to them?


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## Berni

If they're already retired and getting their pension, then that is the end of their entitlements, as far as I know.

Disability Allowance might be an option, it would be means tested
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/Il...isabilities/DisabilityAllowance/Pages/da.aspx


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## DB74

That's great Berni (and gipimann) - thanks for replying

The person in question is trying to work out if he can afford to come back to Ireland to get treatment but it looks like he will actually have to come and start living here first rather than get pre-approval for benefits.


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## gipimann

There is no system of pre-approval for benefits.   For means-tested schemes, residency in Ireland is generally the first of the qualifying criteria anyway.

To answer your earlier question, a council worker is a public servant, not a civil servant.     

And yes, if the person took early retirement, then they are most likely already in receipt of a pension from their employer.


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## Threadser

Black Sheep said:


> Civil/Public servants who have worked for 40 years in the service are entitled to a public service pension which is 50% of their final salary (that is about to change) having paid a lower rate (Class D) of PRSI during their working lives.
> 
> People in private employment pay the higher rate of PRSI for perhaps 48 years and their only entitlement is the State Pension of E230.30 P.W.



Civil/Public servants who joined after 1995 pay full A rate PRSI. This is NOT their only contribution towards their pension as they also pay approx 13.5% of their salary every year in pension contributions.


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## Black Sheep

And they will also get a public service pension above and beyond their State Pension (based on PRSI paid after 1995) just like any private sector employee who pays into a Company pension


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## hopalong

if a person has 3 0r 4 years class a stamp and 30  years class d stamp,can they be put together to get part state old age pension.in other words can the 30 years d stamp be converted in some way that it would be added on to the full class a stamp to qualify for a partial state oap.


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## becky

What grade was he in the council.  Pre 95 workers in the LA and Health Boards were either officers or non officers.  Non officers always paid full PRSI A class whereas officers paid the modified PRSI D.


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## dave28

hopalong said:


> if a person has 3 0r 4 years class a stamp and 30  years class d stamp,can they be put together to get part state old age pension..



You need at least 520 class A contributions (10 years) to qualify for the min contributory pension which i think is 50% of full pension


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## hopalong

becky said:


> What grade was he in the council.  Pre 95 workers in the LA and Health Boards were either officers or non officers.  Non officers always paid full PRSI A class whereas officers paid the modified PRSI D.


hes not in the council,he is in eircom,has 3 or 4 years class a stamp and 30years class d. he still pays class d stamp.(eventhough its a private company,weird)


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## becky

hopalong said:


> hes not in the council,he is in eircom,has 3 or 4 years class a stamp and 30years class d. he still pays class d stamp.(eventhough its a private company,weird)


 
There was a special arrangement for some staff who were employed by Post and Telegraphs or was it Telecom.  I only know this as one of them took a job with the HSE and could have held her D stamp.  She resigned from Eircom and made sure there was a break so that she get the A stamp.

I'm not sure what he's looking for tbh - if he's still paying a D class he must be getting paid for something.  As far as I know if I change to a pensioner my PRSI changes to J or something but the rules may be different for those employees.

I'm a HSE, D class so don't have any SW entitlements, but I get sick pay from my employer, 6 months full pay in a rolling year and 6 months half pay in 4 rolling years.  I didn't get dental benefit etc but as I was paying so little PRSI I was still up.


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## hopalong

yes he is paying class d stamp and he is getting paid to work.he wants to know if his class d stamps can be added in with his class a stamps in order he may get a partial state pension.if not,with his 3 or 4 years class a stamps,he could try to get a new job,pay class a stamps for say 6years,this would give him a total of 10years stamps,which may give him a state pension?


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## gipimann

Have a look at the section headed "pro-rata pension for mixed insurance" on the page linked below, which explains the rules on pensions for people who have worked in both private sector (class A contributions) and public sector (class B or D contributions).

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/Pension/Pages/spc.aspx


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## hopalong

excellent information.thanks.


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