# Revolut Now Have 500,000 Irish Customers. Update:  1m customers now.



## Lightning (12 Nov 2019)

Often the lack of competition in the Irish banking market is discussed.

In that content, I think Revolut reaching 500,000 Irish customers, should be celebrated. 

Traditional common perception of the Irish banking market: Current account competition is non-existent, banking is a closed market and banking inertia is huge.

Revolut are proving that this perception is no longer reality.

Revolut (and to a lesser extent N26 and others) are proving serious competition for the incumbents in terms of payments, FX and increasingly in the current account sphere.

Well done Revolut for such impressive growth and helping break the hold, of the traditional banks, on the Irish banking market.


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## Andrew365 (12 Nov 2019)

I came back to Ireland in 2018 after leaving in 2008 and I was shocked that BOI online interface was the same! I'd hazard a guess that Revolut have released more features in the last 6 months than BOI have in 10 years. 

I have been very impressed with Revolut, high street banks are in real trouble.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Nov 2019)

I am not sure that the banks make much if any profit on current accounts.  

They do make it on FX transactions, so I suppose Revolut might affect them there a bit.

But they make most of their money on lending, and mortgages in particular.  

Isn't Revolut hugely loss making?  I don't know much about their business model, but it does not look sustainable to me.

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko (12 Nov 2019)

One of the biggest commodities now is data...just imagine the data they are harvesting


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## NoRegretsCoyote (12 Nov 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> One of the biggest commodities now is data...just imagine the data they are harvesting



They don't have anything on you that BoI or AIB don't have.

They may be set up to better mine the data to give you tailored products though.


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## Andrew365 (13 Nov 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> One of the biggest commodities now is data...just imagine the data they are harvesting





Brendan Burgess said:


> I am not sure that the banks make much if any profit on current accounts.
> 
> They do make it on FX transactions, so I suppose Revolut might affect them there a bit.
> 
> ...



We live in a funny world, look at Uber, WeWork, Peloton they are all loss making but yet they are used by millions. The aim of the game seems to be get as many users as possible and then work on profitability. Regarding banks profitability, the retail customers are only there for the deposits that can be leveraged, but since ring-fencing in the UK this is less of a necessity. 

Banks are in big trouble on the retail side. I am in my early 30's and I opened, my bank account was opened by mother with BOI because it was a recognizable brand on the high street. Young people now have no brand connection with a bank, and the especially have a low tolerance for poor technology. Revolut with 500k customers is showing that people are trending away. 

After all a lot of posts on AAM have been about how the banks have screwed people over!


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## Andrew365 (13 Nov 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> One of the biggest commodities now is data...just imagine the data they are harvesting



Is this a negative?


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## EmmDee (13 Nov 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am not sure that the banks make much if any profit on current accounts.
> 
> They do make it on FX transactions, so I suppose Revolut might affect them there a bit.
> 
> ...



Correct. Also credit cards.

Also, with all of these alternatives (and I'll include PayPal, ApplePay, GooglePay or other customer facing payment tools) - exactly who's infrastructure do you think they are using? They are all using the existing infrastructure that the financial institutions built and own. What has happened is that the likes of Revolut still process their bulk activity through the banks. All they have done is removed some of the small individual transactions from the bank ledgers and switched it to larger bulk transactions.

The large banks (I'm not thinking of BoI, AIB etc) are not threatened by services such as Revolut - they may have other concerns.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (13 Nov 2019)

EmmDee said:


> The large banks (I'm not thinking of BoI, AIB etc) are not threatened by services such as Revolut - they may have other concerns.



I am not sure this is the case. Revolut are following the classic IT start-up model of build a huge customer base first, then offer profitable services.

In time they will offer consumer credit. Mortgage and SME lending is a long way off, but I wouldn't rule it out eventually.

Revolut and N26 (if they don't collapse in the meantime) will put in place their own banking infrastructure eventually. Regulators and investors will insist upon it if they get big enough.


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## EmmDee (13 Nov 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Revolut and N26 (if they don't collapse in the meantime) will put in place their own banking infrastructure eventually. Regulators and investors will insist upon it if they get big enough.



I think you misunderstand what I meant (or I wasn't clear) - yes they will have their own infrastructure / platforms. But they won't have their own global payments infrastructure - they will sit on what's available. As do most banks and financial institutions. Whether it's SWIFT, Fedwire, ACH or various other core infrastructure, they will plug into them. Even the replacements to these are not owned by the start ups, they are funded by the large processing banks & institutions - JPM, Citi, BofA, Visa, etc - whether individually or in consortiums. Think of them as large global utilities. The likes of Revolut will plug into these and look to eventually be profitable by having enough customers that internal switches (from one Revolut customer to another) allow them reduce cost to service.

Revolut and N26 will never (well - for the foreseeable future) be of a scale where they could think about funding a global payments infrastructure and then persuade other participants to use it (which they would need).

An analogy (though somewhat poor) is a mobile service reseller. They can sell you a service and buy wholesale from the utility providers. But there is no way they would have the scale to build their own masts, buy their own bandwidth and run their own tech infrastructure and have a comparable service. The investment scale required in international payments is much wider than that


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## Andrew365 (13 Nov 2019)

EmmDee said:


> I think you misunderstand what I meant (or I wasn't clear) - yes they will have their own infrastructure / platforms. But they won't have their own global payments infrastructure - they will sit on what's available. As do most banks and financial institutions. Whether it's SWIFT, Fedwire, ACH or various other core infrastructure, they will plug into them. Even the replacements to these are not owned by the start ups, they are funded by the large processing banks & institutions - JPM, Citi, BofA, Visa, etc - whether individually or in consortiums. Think of them as large global utilities. The likes of Revolut will plug into these and look to eventually be profitable by having enough customers that internal switches (from one Revolut customer to another) allow them reduce cost to service.
> 
> Revolut and N26 will never (well - for the foreseeable future) be of a scale where they could think about funding a global payments infrastructure and then persuade other participants to use it (which they would need).
> 
> An analogy (though somewhat poor) is a mobile service reseller. They can sell you a service and buy wholesale from the utility providers. But there is no way they would have the scale to build their own masts, buy their own bandwidth and run their own tech infrastructure and have a comparable service. The investment scale required in international payments is much wider than that


I do note that Deutsche got slapped on the wrists for the amount of payments that failed in the CHAPS system recently.


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## Alkers86 (13 Nov 2019)

The thing is though that it's not really a competitor for current accounts, nearly all users I know (myself included) use Revolut to supplement their current account, not to replace it.


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## Bronte (13 Nov 2019)

CiaranT said:


> Revolut (and to a lesser extent N26 and others) are proving serious competition for the incumbents in terms of payments, FX and increasingly in the current account sphere.
> 
> Well done Revolut for such impressive growth and helping break the hold, of the traditional banks, on the Irish banking market.


Once I'm confident these guys are here to stay I will be very happy to move away from traditional banking. I've one child who had endless trouble trying to open a normal bank account in the UK and gave up and opened a Monzo account.  And now I'm by passing my banks, Ireland and abroad to use Transferwise to do my currency transactions. I can transfer money in less than an hour from one country to another.  It's unbelievably amazing.  I was shocked.  When I do bank to bank transfers Ireland/abroad it takes a couple of days.  Which I though could not be avoided.  

Also I'm not impressed with my last outings into bank branches of two of the main Irish banks.  Young people dressed like they were down the disco, no privacy, and zero customer service attitude. In fact the attitude was why are you bothering me.  And the bank branches look like I was in somwhere like McDonalds, only no bad smell.


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## tomdublin (13 Nov 2019)

That seems to be their main problem at the moment.  To convince more customers to make this their main current account they would need to be part of a confidence-inspiring deposit insurance scheme.  Picking Lithuania doesn't seem to do the trick, especially since competitor N26 is part of a rock-solid German insurance scheme and regulatory regime.


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## horusd (13 Nov 2019)

I use N26 and Revolut. I feel somewhat more  secure with N26 because it is an actual bank, atho I understand Revolut lodges money with Barclays and therefore benefits (or the customer benefits) from UK gov.t guarantees.


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## Andrew365 (14 Nov 2019)

Bronte said:


> Once I'm confident these guys are here to stay I will be very happy to move away from traditional banking. I've one child who had endless trouble trying to open a normal bank account in the UK and gave up and opened a Monzo account.  And now I'm by passing my banks, Ireland and abroad to use Transferwise to do my currency transactions. I can transfer money in less than an hour from one country to another.  It's unbelievably amazing.  I was shocked.  When I do bank to bank transfers Ireland/abroad it takes a couple of days.  Which I though could not be avoided.
> 
> Also I'm not impressed with my last outings into bank branches of two of the main Irish banks.  Young people dressed like they were down the disco, no privacy, and zero customer service attitude. In fact the attitude was why are you bothering me.  And the bank branches look like I was in somwhere like McDonalds, only no bad smell.



I had a US $  check that needed lodging. The option from BOI was to use a regular deposit slip and scribble out the EUR and write Dollars. When inquired about the rate, I was told "It will be decided once it gets to the FX back office team". That exposed me to price risk, but unfortunately the only option available at that time. 

I understand that lodging non Eur checks is part of everyday banking in Ireland but given BOI advertised themselves as "Returning to Ireland? Come bank with us" and the amount of Irish citizens working abroad it is pretty poor in my opinion.


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## EmmDee (14 Nov 2019)

horusd said:


> I use N26 and Revolut. I feel somewhat more  secure with N26 because it is an actual bank, atho I understand Revolut lodges money with Barclays and therefore benefits (or the customer benefits) from UK gov.t guarantees.



Emmm - I'm not sure that can be fully accurate. If Revolut holds client money at Barclays, it will be seen as a single customer and therefore each underlying Revolut customer would not be covered by the UK scheme - only Revolut up to the max for a single person. Unless they open individual accounts for each customer in that customers name (or identifying each customer) which I doubt if I'm honest.


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## tecate (14 Nov 2019)

EmmDee said:


> But they won't have their own global payments infrastructure - they will sit on what's available. As do most banks and financial institutions. Whether it's SWIFT, Fedwire, ACH or various other core infrastructure, they will plug into them. Even the replacements to these are not owned by the start ups, they are funded by the large processing banks & institutions - JPM, Citi, BofA, Visa, etc - whether individually or in consortiums.


I'd imagine that not having their own infrastructure and being able to plug in to existing infrastructure is what gives them their advantage.  They come to the industry with a clean sheet whereas the systems of incumbent banks are almost falling over - caught up with endless compliance.   They can't update their systems as they're unwieldy.  

Whilst SWIFT is owned by the banking set, Ripple is emerging and provides an alternative.

Traditional banking isn't trusted like it was with previous generations.  Millenials don't trust them and combined with that generations comfort in working digitally, there's going to be an ongoing move away from incumbent banks.


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## andrew2000ad (14 Nov 2019)

CiaranT said:


> Often the lack of competition in the Irish banking market is discussed.
> 
> In that content, I think Revolut reaching 500,000 Irish customers, should be celebrated.
> 
> ...



I think it's too early to tell what will happen with Revolut in Ireland.
The friction to join is so low, that many people signed up. Do they actually use it though?

You can make money off un-engaged customers.
Now if people were closing their Current accounts with AIB, BOI etc in droves, and switching everything to Revolut, I think we'd see the banks panicking.


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## Peanuts20 (14 Nov 2019)

Revolut are not a bank which makes me nervous. They are also a loss making enterprise with a horrendous litany of complaints around how staff are treated. None of these new "challengers" are free.


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## horusd (14 Nov 2019)

EmmDee said:


> Emmm - I'm not sure that can be fully accurate. If Revolut holds client money at Barclays, it will be seen as a single customer and therefore each underlying Revolut customer would not be covered by the UK scheme - only Revolut up to the max for a single person. Unless they open individual accounts for each customer in that customers name (or identifying each customer) which I doubt if I'm honest.


I lifted this from the Revolut website, looks like there is cover under the UK FCA scheme : https://community.revolut.com/t/now...ng-we-use-it-as-our-primary-bank-account/4427


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## Drakon (15 Nov 2019)

Andrew365 said:


> We live in a funny world, look at Uber, WeWork, Peloton they are all loss making but yet they are used by millions. The aim of the game seems to be get as many users as possible and then work on profitability.



Sounds like 1999 all over again. I hope history isn’t going to repeat itself. 

Someone mentioned that Revolut don’t treat their employees well. 
Uber has caused misery in the third world. 
Try telling the residents of central Barcelona that Air BnB’s is about helping the common person with their mortgage payment and you’ll get a different message.


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## Peanuts20 (15 Nov 2019)

Problem for Revolut is that their turnover is small, only £58m last year out of a customer base they claim is in excess of 7 million. Half of those are not using the services even once a month, so they have failed to monetise their customer base. I wonder how many people are using it purely when travelling?


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## tomdublin (15 Nov 2019)

horusd said:


> I lifted this from the Revolut website, looks like there is cover under the UK FCA scheme : https://community.revolut.com/t/now...ng-we-use-it-as-our-primary-bank-account/4427


That's misleading.  Individual Revolut deposits are not subject to UK deposit insurance.  Revolut has been granted a banking licence in Lithuania which has not yet come into effect.  If and when it does funds up to €100,000 will formally be covered by the Lithuanian deposit insurance scheme.  However, that raises the question of how reliable that scheme would be if there was a multi-bank collapse in that country, which has attracted a large number of fintech companies.  Lithuania is very small and still relatively poor.  In time a European deposit insurance scheme might come into being but that still seems a long way off.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Nov 2019)

tomdublin said:


> Revolut has been granted a banking licence in Lithuania which has not yet come into effect.



Revolut does have a banking licence in Lithuania. Look . It's been in effect for a year now.


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## EmmDee (15 Nov 2019)

horusd said:


> I lifted this from the Revolut website, looks like there is cover under the UK FCA scheme : https://community.revolut.com/t/now...ng-we-use-it-as-our-primary-bank-account/4427



As mentioned, individual "accounts" on Revolut are not covered by the UK insurance scheme - they make that clear in the FAQ's. What they say is that they hold all client cash at an account at Barclays clearly designated as client money and therefore not subject to creditors of Revolut in a case of bankruptcy - which is valid. The account at Barclays would be covered under the UK scheme but that would be a single account with the relevant limit - not per Revolut customer

Revolut may have a banking license somewhere but it is not utilising it according to the website - just because they have a banking license somewhere in their legal structure doesn't mean they are acting as a bank. The website is clear that they are not operating "accounts" and are not a deposit taking institution (aka "a bank") and that they are operating as a money transfer agent


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## tomdublin (15 Nov 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Revolut does have a banking licence in Lithuania. Look . It's been in effect for a year now.


Please re-read what I wrote.  The banking licence has been issued but it's not yet operational, hence deposits are not yet insured.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Nov 2019)

tomdublin said:


> Please re-read what I wrote.  The banking licence has been issued but it's not yet operational,



I spent a few minutes on the Bank of Lithuania website and it does not seem to make a distinction between licenses that are operational and those that aren't. It would be nice if you could clarify this.



tomdublin said:


> hence deposits are not yet insured.



 I made no claims about this.


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## Steven Barrett (15 Nov 2019)

Drakon said:


> Sounds like 1999 all over again. I hope history isn’t going to repeat itself.



I've been thinking that more and more recently. Except the numbers are much bigger. Wework, a loss making business going from a valuation of $45b to almost going bust. Uber never turning a profit, neither does Tesla. Buying stock in a tech IPO is madness unless you flip it that day. Chances are it's going to sink. Google bought Fitbit recently but it had bombed since it's IPO. GoPro was another disaster.


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## tomdublin (15 Nov 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I spent a few minutes on the Bank of Lithuania website and it does not seem to make a distinction between licenses that are operational and those that aren't. It would be nice if you could clarify this.
> 
> 
> 
> I made no claims about this.


The "not yet operational" was my own wording which might differ from Lithuanian legal phrasing.  It simply was a logical deduction: if operating with a banking licence means the institution is covered by the deposit insurance scheme and if for Revolut that scheme is not yet in effect, this would seem to imply that its banking licence is not yet fully operational (or "implemented" or "in force" or whichever wording you prefer).  I'm afraid I'm not aware of the intricacies surrounding this.


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## horusd (15 Nov 2019)

From my perspective, I have little on deposit with Revolut, but am not particularly happy they haven't got an operational licence.  I tend to  rely on my N26 German account in terms of security, and as I live part of the year abroad, I find it useful and simple. I continue to use main stream banks, including in my home abroad for the security they provide, and I never have all my eggs in one basket. Prudence is the  watchword for me. I use Revolut for convenience, and it does what it says on the tin.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 Nov 2019)

I am genuinely puzzled by this.

Revolut's blog from a year ago says that:



> If you choose to open a full current account with Revolut Bank *in the future*, any funds you deposit will be protected up to €100,000 under the European Deposit Insurance Scheme (EDIS).
> 
> It's worth pointing out that this scheme *is not currently in place, so your current funds with Revolut remain safeguarded in accounts with a tier one UK bank, *as per our obligations under the e-money regulations.



But the Bank of Lithuania website doesn't seem to have any opt-out from its DGS for deposit-taking instiutions of which Revolut is one:



> The aim of deposit insurance is to ensure protection of deposits in case of financial institution insolvency, thus contributing to the stability of the financial market and enhancing the public’s trust in financial institutions. In Lithuania, deposits are insured in the amount of up to EUR 100 thousand, when they are held with a bank, bank branch or credit union.



There are two licensed entities in fact, Revolut Bank UAB which is authorised to take deposits, and Revolut _*Payments *_UAB which has a to issue e-money, execute transactions, etc, but not to take deposits. 

Is Revolut Bank Payments UAB the one you open an account with? As it is not strictly speaking a deposit-taking insitution it presumably wouldn't be covered by a DGS.


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## MrEarl (17 Nov 2019)

It might also be worth getting their definition of what a deposit is - is it money held anywhere in your Revolut Account, or only in a "vault" for example ?


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## EmmDee (18 Nov 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I am genuinely puzzled by this.
> 
> There are two licensed entities in fact, Revolut Bank UAB which is authorised to take deposits, and Revolut _*Payments *_UAB which has a to issue e-money, execute transactions, etc, but not to take deposits.
> 
> Is Revolut Bank Payments UAB the one you open an account with? As it is not strictly speaking a deposit-taking insitution it presumably wouldn't be covered by a DGS.



Correct. It has two licenses (I assume two different legal entities). They are not using their banking license and are not acting as a bank (they say this explicitly - not just "strictly speaking" - not at all in any way). Therefore customers benefit from the UK client asset rules requiring firms to segregate client assets from their own in case of bankruptcy but do not benefit from the insurance scheme



MrEarl said:


> It might also be worth getting their definition of what a deposit is - is it money held anywhere in your Revolut Account, or only in a "vault" for example ?



Their definition is irrelevant. A deposit is when a customer lodges any cash with a bank - irrespective of the account type or name. You become a creditor of the bank and are on the bank's balance sheet as a liability (to the bank). If Revolut were acting in the capacity of a bank, any money you had with them in any form would be a "deposit".

But this is not what they are doing. They have opened accounts with a Bank and when you give money to Revolut they are lodging into a "client account" at Barclays. Barclays are the deposit taking institution and Revolut are acting as an agent / intermediary. You are not a liability for Revolut, but the combined client account balance is a liability for Barclays


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Dec 2019)

N26 has 100,000 Irish customers and are planning a major push in Ireland 









						Digital bank N26 planning significant investment here
					

Digital only bank N26 has said it is planning to significantly increase its investment in the Irish market next year and is considering adding new services here.




					www.rte.ie


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## roker (23 Dec 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I am not sure that the banks make much if any profit on current accounts.
> 
> They do make it on FX transactions, so I suppose Revolut might affect them there a bit.
> 
> ...


You have to have a few thousand in your current acc to avoid charges, if you multiply this amount by the number of customer there s a tidy amount for them to invest


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## EmmDee (23 Dec 2019)

roker said:


> You have to have a few thousand in your current acc to avoid charges, if you multiply this amount by the number of customer there s a tidy amount for them to invest



How exactly do you think they make money on a load of deposits in EUR in the current environment.

Revolut aren't a Bank, so every €1 a client places with them has to be deposited in a client account with a bank - which will be earning less than nothing probably (if they are avoiding paying negative interest on that balance I'd be surprised). So they aren't making money from client deposits at the moment.

Even a bank struggles to make anything on EUR client balances. While a bank can use deposits as part of the general balance sheet, they still have to maintain about 10% of the value of client balances in cash - and they will be paying 40 or 50 bps on that. They are also restricted on types of other assets they can hold - so a portion of assets will be in bonds (again negative rates). Where they make their money is on what can be lent out; an avenue Revolut don't have - or at least they can't include client deposits in the calculation of what they could lend out. They could only lend out of their own capital which I suspect is pretty small.

They have other products in the pipeline which, in theory they could turn into revenue streams - but again they might run into the problem outlined on other threads... dropping transaction prices to near zero to gain market share based on the fact that variable costs on electronic activity is low doesn't address the overhead and structural cost to run a business of scale. So I'm not sure that the market share makes up for the low unit cost.


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## bigjoe_dub (13 Jan 2020)

irish banks are going to get a good spanking sooner rather then later.  my son had a savings account with Ulster bank for years.  he turned 18 recently and wanted a debit card.  would not deal with him at the branch.  told him to do it online.  now the usual show us a bill in your name to prove your address.  what 18 year old has house hold bills in their name.  he suggested a Ulster bank statement they sent him.  no, that wont do. for the love of god.  I downloaded the revolut app myself to check it out.  the next day I was able to use my phone to pay for my coffee.  look Ulster bank, it is not that hard.


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## MrEarl (14 Jan 2020)

Hello, 

While I agree with the point that your making, let's not forget that we are comparing apples and oranges here, when we compare Revolut to "land based banks". 

There are lots of things that our traditional banks can learn (and copy) from the likes of Revolut, but they'll never be the same.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Jan 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> While I agree with the point that your making, let's not forget that we are comparing apples and oranges here, when we compare Revolut to "land based banks".
> 
> There are lots of things that our traditional banks can learn (and copy) from the likes of Revolut, but they'll never be the same.



@bigjoe_dub

Ulster Bank is licenced as a bank in Ireland with all of the regulatory obligations that entails. They are legally obliged to satisfy themselves that your son lives at your address before they give him an account.

Revolut is strictly speaking not providing full banking services but is instead licensed for "Execution of payment transactions, including transfers of funds on a payment account with the payment service provider of the payment service user or with another payment service provider: execution of direct debits, including one-off direct debits, execution of payment transactions through a payment card or a similar device and/or execution of credit transfers, including standing orders "

Presumably their customer onboarding obligations in Lithuania for this are much more relaxed than they are for a full bank  in Ireland.


It's not unlikely that there will be some kind of event for Revolut or N26 where customers will lose access to their deposits for a period of time. They are simply growing too fast to deal with risk on multiple fronts: infrastructure, regulation, financial crime, etc.


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## RedOnion (14 Jan 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> While I agree with the point that your making, let's not forget that we are comparing apples and oranges here, when we compare Revolut to "land based banks".
> 
> There are lots of things that our traditional banks can learn (and copy) from the likes of Revolut, but they'll never be the same.


Comparing apples and oranges is a good point here.
The only reason you can get set up so quickly on Revolut is because you already have a bank account. They know which bank your card is with. They can piggy back on the AML compliance of that bank. For example if you've an account with UB, they know UB are compliant, so they only do a reduced AML.
If you want to compare them fully to a traditional bank, try set up Revolut without linking it to an existing current account / card.



NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Presumably their customer onboarding obligations in Lithuania for this are much more relaxed than they are for a full banking Ireland


An Irish customer has nothing to do with their Lithuanian banking licence. That's a separate entity.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Jan 2020)

RedOnion said:


> An Irish customer has nothing to do with their Lithuanian banking licence. That's a separate entity.



Indeed, I meant to write "bank in Ireland" - edited now.

The Revolut blog trumpets the fact that they have a banking license, but I don't think customers realise that they are not dealing with this entity.


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## Redcat (12 Feb 2020)

Quick question . Under revenue rules if you open an "overseas" bank account you have to tell revenue 

Is this a requirement for Revolut and N26 accounts as well ?

Thanks


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## Palerider (12 Feb 2020)

You cannot piggy back AML, that is simplistic.

I have a Revolut, as do others in my family, my son opened his with two copies of his drivers license which were accepted by Revolut which really surprised me.


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## SPC100 (18 Feb 2020)

Redcat said:


> Quick question . Under revenue rules if you open an "overseas" bank account you have to tell revenue
> 
> Is this a requirement for Revolut and N26 accounts as well ?
> 
> Thanks


I came to this conclusion, so I sent revenue a note via myaccount enquiry last year. Which they acknowledged.


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## Redcat (3 Apr 2020)

Returning to this topic I am unclear

N26 has a German banking licence but is regulated by the Irish central bank. As such if you open an account in Ireland do revenue really regard it as an offshore account?

Can't really see a clear answer on this...


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## MrEarl (3 Apr 2020)

Perhaps they are approved to transact in Ireland under the passporting arrangements?


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## EmmDee (3 Apr 2020)

Redcat said:


> Returning to this topic I am unclear
> 
> N26 has a German banking licence but is regulated by the Irish central bank. As such if you open an account in Ireland do revenue really regard it as an offshore account?
> 
> Can't really see a clear answer on this...



It is licensed and regulated by the German financial regulator. It operates here on the basis of cross border licensing which means the they have to comply with Irish code of conduct requirements of the central bank of Ireland. But the main regulator is Germany and your deposit is with a German bank. I don't believe their presence here is even a branch... Just a marketing presence (from a banking regulator point of view)


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## Redcat (4 Apr 2020)

Right so all of the 500000 people who have revolut or n26 in Ireland should be telling revenue?


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## EmmDee (4 Apr 2020)

Redcat said:


> Right so all of the 500000 people who have revolut or n26 in Ireland should be telling revenue?



I don't know if EU accounts are treated any differently. I thought there was data sharing across the EU but I'm not familiar with revenue requirements or expectations


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## fidelcastro (4 Apr 2020)

Redcat said:


> Right so all of the 500000 people who have revolut or n26 in Ireland should be telling revenue?


Precisely.


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## jpd (4 Apr 2020)

The sharing of information would appear to be mainly of income and tax avoidance/money laundering but it is possible that information on account opening may also be shared

see here https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...strative-cooperation-field-direct-taxation_en


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## newirishman (4 Apr 2020)

N26 certainly did ask me for the PPS number at some point to clarify tax residency.
IIRC they would have closed the account if I hadn’t done so.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (4 Apr 2020)

newirishman said:


> N26 certainly did ask me for the PPS number at some point to clarify tax residency.



How does a PPSN clarify your tax residency?

Lots of non-resident people have them.


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## jpd (4 Apr 2020)

They will report to Revenue and give the PPS number


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## NoRegretsCoyote (4 Apr 2020)

jpd said:


> They will report to Revenue and give the PPS number



Probably.

The poster had implied that supply of a PPSN to N26 proved your tax residence status. It doesn't.


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## newirishman (4 Apr 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> How does a PPSN clarify your tax residency?
> 
> Lots of non-resident people have them.



it doesn’t. Didn’t think my response implied as much. N26 asks which country(ies) you are tax liable, and if you select Ireland, you have to provide the PPSN.


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## paulgreen (4 May 2020)

I can't speak too highly of Revolut spotted a fraud a couple of days ago blocked the transaction sent me a warning through the app and I cancelled the card through the app all in less time than it takes to make a cup of tea and a new card mailed in 24 hours....


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## Lightning (13 May 2020)

Revolut now have signed up 1 million users in Ireland. 

That's a phenomenal speed of growth.


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## Fire away (13 May 2020)

CiaranT said:


> Revolut now have signed up 1 million users in Ireland.
> 
> That's a phenomenal speed of growth.


I would say 200k of them were friends playing online poker with each other over the last couple of months


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## DublinHead54 (13 May 2020)

I also got a notification today that 'Revolut Junior' is now available. A kids account, seems fairly straight forward to set up on the app.









						Terms & Policies
					

Read Revolut’s Legal Terms and Policies. | undefined



					www.revolut.com


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## MrEarl (13 May 2020)

CiaranT said:


> Revolut now have signed up 1 million users in Ireland.
> 
> That's a phenomenal speed of growth.



It's very impressive alright. 

I think that they were likely to have grown their customer base in Ireland regardless, but can't help wondering if their growth has been radically enhanced by the impact of coronavirus.


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## Baby boomer (13 May 2020)

I'd imagine that very few of the million use it as their main bank account but it is incredibly useful for making purchases in Sterling and other non-Euro currencies.  Brilliant exchange rates and no fees.  What's not to like?


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## RobFer (14 May 2020)

Shocking how slow BoI and AIB are to modernise their apps to rival Revolut


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## elcato (14 May 2020)

RobFer said:


> Shocking how slow BoI and AIB are to modernise their apps to rival Revolut


They have legacy systems which are working so they will be slow to change. Revelut started from scratch in the techno age as oppose to the old 'Banklink hole in da wall thingy'


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## Pugmister (14 May 2020)

RobFer said:


> Shocking how slow BoI and AIB are to modernise their apps to rival Revolut



It's currently underway


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## lledlledlled (14 May 2020)

Baby boomer said:


> I'd imagine that very few of the million use it as their main bank account but it is incredibly useful for making purchases in Sterling and other non-Euro currencies.  Brilliant exchange rates and no fees.  What's not to like?



The main thing i don't like is that you can only access from one device. It doesn't support Joint Accounts.


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## Gordon Gekko (14 May 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> The main thing i don't like is that you can only access from one device. It doesn't support Joint Accounts.



We have one account, two cards, and the App on both iPhones. Seems to work fine as a joint account of sorts.


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## lledlledlled (14 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> We have one account, two cards, and the App on both iPhones. Seems to work fine as a joint account of sorts.



Do both of you have access on your phones to the full App, or just the Group Vaults?


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## Gordon Gekko (14 May 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> Do both of you have access on your phones to the full App, or just the Group Vaults?



The full app...I’m on the Metal plan which might change things, I don’t know


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## ant dee (14 May 2020)

You can request money, make a link, send it to someone, they pay from their browser with their card details, no sign up required.
Zero fees on either end.
I couldnt believe it, the likes of Stripe and PayPal would charge 2-3%

They have a plan in development, under the 100e monthly business plan, to "accept payments online without fees".
I'd say ecommerce will flood to it


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 May 2020)

RobFer said:


> Shocking how slow BoI and AIB are to modernise their apps to rival Revolut


Important to recall that Revolut is not a bank.


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## Baby boomer (14 May 2020)

Gordon Gekko said:


> The full app...I’m on the Metal plan which might change things, I don’t know


As a matter of interest, what sold you on the metal card.  I thought it was a bit pricey and the basic card does me fine.


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## Baby boomer (14 May 2020)

Fair enough, I might have to do the sums on that myself!


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## Baby boomer (14 May 2020)

Just checking out the website.  The 1% cashbacks is stated to be for* "outside Europe" *rather than *outside the EU*.
I presume then that the 1% rate doesn't apply to the UK/NI?


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## Gordon Gekko (14 May 2020)

Baby boomer said:


> Just checking out the website.  The 1% cashbacks is stated to be for* "outside Europe" *rather than *outside the EU*.
> I presume then that the 1% rate doesn't apply to the UK/NI?



No, it doesn’t


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## Baby boomer (14 May 2020)

I'll stick with my basic account then!


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## SparkRite (14 May 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> The main thing i don't like is that you can only access from one device.



Don't know about joint accounts, but I have it on my phone, tablet and even my android TV box.
Full access on all.
Biometric access on phone and tablet, might remove it from the box as that was just to see if it worked.


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## RobFer (14 May 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Important to recall that Revolut is not a bank.


Sure but these pillar banks really need to improve their websites and app design.


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## lledlledlled (15 May 2020)

SparkRite said:


> Don't know about joint accounts, but I have it on my phone, tablet and even my android TV box.
> Full access on all.
> Biometric access on phone and tablet, might remove it from the box as that was just to see if it worked.



Do you have the Standard, Premium, or Metal version?


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## SparkRite (15 May 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> Do you have the Standard, Premium, or Metal version?


Just the plain, auld, common or garden standard card.


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## MrEarl (15 May 2020)

RobFer said:


> Sure but these pillar banks really need to improve their websites and app design.



Don't hold your breath!

The main Irish Banks have failed to invest in proper technology for over a decade, possibly closer to two decades, at this stage.

Wonderful announcements made about intented spend, don't tell the full story - the actual detail of what the money is being spent on, and who is doing the development work etc.

Speak to anyone in any of the main Irish Banks and they'll all tell you the same thing, if they are honest with you... most of their internal systems are ancient, typically are not integrated - so you've multiple stand alone systems etc. That in turn restricts what can be offered to the customer, in terms of user friendly, efficient and reliable tech.

Internally, most of the Banks are still pushing lots of paper around and even sending faxes between locations, it simply defies belief!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (15 May 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Internally, most of the Banks are still pushing lots of paper around and even sending faxes between locations, it simply defies belief!



There was a missed opportunity post bail-out to offload one of the big two to a major European player with much better systems. 

I have banked with AIB and BoI and AIB strikes me as the most prehistoric in terms of its technology, but BoI aren't much better, some of the statements they send me seem to have come out of a dot matrix printer!

Of course to make this work you have to have a willing purchaser, and Ireland is still a tiny market. It would also involve huge amounts of branch closures on a job losses and I think a lot of politicians aren't interested in that.


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## newirishman (5 Jun 2020)

Revolut seems to be a not so great company to work for.








						Revolut staff claim they’ve been told to quit their jobs or be fired
					

Staff members at Europe's biggest fintech startup say that they have been pressured into leaving their jobs and taking salary cuts as the company embarks on cost-saving measures




					www.wired.co.uk


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## BoscoTalking (6 Jun 2020)

No different to BOI in recent weeks? Lots of contractors on poor contracts and no security


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