# Divorced Spouse Back in House



## TRAY79 (14 Feb 2019)

Hi Looking for some help for a friend.  My friend and her ex husband both civil servants on around €50000 each per annum.  The house they jointly own is now worth around €320000 and Mortgage around €400000.  They had a tenant in the house who was paying the mortgage every month but now the ex husband and his partner have moved back into the house and are paying the mortgage.  It suits my friend as she no longer has to pay tax on rental income.  My friend is currently renting as she cannot afford to buy.  The ex wants to get mortgage put in the name along with his new partner even though house is in negative equity.  They are currently waiting on banks and solicitors.  Is there anything my friend needs to be aware of if the transfer goes ahead.  Or what about if it doesnt, he is in house paying mortgage off does this give him greater rights, she cannot live in the house as she left the area but has to rent another house.


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## mf1 (15 Feb 2019)

The house is in negative equity.

The ex husband is willing to take over the negative equity , release her from the mortgage and take her off the title. What's the problem? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

And if it does not go ahead? He'll pay the mortgage, she'll still be on the title and they'll both need to consent when and if the house is to be sold. 

I imagine there could be some negotiation about divvying up the sale proceeds, if she has not paid the mortgage? 

It could also be argued that him paying the whole mortgage amounts to him renting her share of the house.

mf


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## Purple (15 Feb 2019)

My suggestion is that she says yes, buys him a thank you card and maybe a small gift.


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## Bronte (15 Feb 2019)

Say yes today and do everything to get her name off as soon as possible.

- Never look a gift horse in the mouth
- Don't wait until his current relationship breaks down and he moves back out with her having some kind of property rights and paying nothing
- Move on with life with no baggage
- Next bust bubble could be round the corner with even worse NE.


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## TRAY79 (15 Feb 2019)

mf1 said:


> The house is in negative equity.
> 
> The ex husband is willing to take over the negative equity , release her from the mortgage and take her off the title. What's the problem? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
> 
> ...


We hope deal will go ahead but bank may not allow it.

You say he should get more in event of sale.  There was a tenant in the house paying the rent for a few year and this was covering the mortgage.  They were both renting elsewhere and paying tax on rental income they received on their former home.  He decided to remove tenant and move back in as he could not afford rent and tax every year.  He is paying same amount on mortgage every month as tenant was paying them for rent.  My friend has to continue to rent elsewhere.  She can hardly move back in with ex and the woman he was cheating on her with.  So why should he receive any more in a few years than she would if the house was sold?


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## elcato (15 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> So why should he receive any more in a few years than she would if the house was sold?


Because it may not have any profit made on it. It is currently in negative equity. This is what she should weigh up. Personally I think getting a clean break is the best option.


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## TRAY79 (15 Feb 2019)

elcato said:


> Because it may not have any profit made on it. It is currently in negative equity. This is what she should weigh up. Personally I think getting a clean break is the best option.



A clean break would be best yes but the you know what banks are like.

If it does make any profit in time I dont see why it would not be split 50/50, even though he has paid the mortgage but as I said above she had to pay rent elsewhere.


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## Marsha25 (15 Feb 2019)

I suppose your friend will have to weigh up the risk of missing out on any future equity in the house against being financially attached to the house for years to come and having to deal with her ex.  If she consents to him and his partner taking over the mortgage/house (assuming the bank would entertain the idea) then she is free of that debt and can move on.  It would be foolish of her to hold off on the chance of him ever wanting to sell in the future and on the chance of the house selling for a profit.  Would she prefer to sell the house now and have to pay the bank half of the shortfall owed on the mortgage?  Doubtful, so she doesn't get to say that she should be entitled to half the proceeds if it ever makes a profit in years to come, after her ex and his partner pay the mortgage.


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## TRAY79 (15 Feb 2019)

Marsha25 said:


> I suppose your friend will have to weigh up the risk of missing out on any future equity in the house against being financially attached to the house for years to come and having to deal with her ex.  If she consents to him and his partner taking over the mortgage/house (assuming the bank would entertain the idea) then she is free of that debt and can move on.  It would be foolish of her to hold off on the chance of him ever wanting to sell in the future and on the chance of the house selling for a profit.  Would she prefer to sell the house now and have to pay the bank half of the shortfall owed on the mortgage?  Doubtful, so she doesn't get to say that she should be entitled to half the proceeds if it ever makes a profit in years to come, after her ex and his partner pay the mortgage.



I think you are picking me up wrong. 

She wants out of the house now and to move on with her life.  However this may not be an option with the bank so she might have no choice but to jointly own the house and mortgage with him for years to come.

If he takes over the house and puts mortgage into his name now good luck to him if he makes money on it in years to come, thats his businesss and nothing to do with her.  However if the bank do not change and mortgage and house continue to be in joint names and he pays mortgage while she has to pay rent elsewhere and is unable to get a mortgage why should she be entitled to less than him in a few years.   As I said they had a tenant in place who was paying as much as him but he moved threw them out.  

The only reason he wants to change names on mortgage is because him and his new partner cant get a mortgage either while he still involved with this one.


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## Bronte (16 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> A clean break would be best yes but the you know what banks are like.
> 
> If it does make any profit in time I dont see why it would not be split 50/50, even though he has paid the mortgage but as I said above she had to pay rent elsewhere.


Your friend is very foolish indeed. She can walk away from NE, her ex took care of the hassle of renting included the rental tax and she’s mulling up a potential profit in 20 years.


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## RETIRED2017 (16 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> A clean break would be best yes but the you know what banks are like.
> 
> If it does make any profit in time I dont see why it would not be split 50/50, even though he has paid the mortgage but as I said above she had to pay rent elsewhere.


If you are her real friend don't be bringing up things that are clouding her judgement,Working on a clean break now rather than allow things to drag on for 20 years is best,


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## TRAY79 (16 Feb 2019)

Bronte said:


> Your friend is very foolish indeed. She can walk away from NE, her ex took care of the hassle of renting included the rental tax and she’s mulling up a potential profit in 20 years.


She can walk away from NE - the bank didn’t say she could. She is hoping they will but bank are dragging their feet.
The profit in future is only if it can’t be sold now. Why should she be entitled to nothing in the future after a lifetime of being unable to buy a home herself. And having to pay as much every month in rent as he is paying mortgage. Have her name on mortgage of a home for him and his family.
And sorry but my friend isn’t foolish. She had to leave her home because of him and his new partner. She can hardly be expected to move back in with them. It would be cheaper for her to live in that house but she had to leave area after break up.


RETIRED2017 said:


> If you are her real friend don't be bringing up things that are clouding her judgement,Working on a clean break now rather than allow things to drag on for 20 years is best,



If the banks refuse to put the mortgage in name of ex and his new partner how to you suggest how do you suggest we work on it, there is nothing she can do.
Nobody wants things to drag on 20 years. 
She would rather move on. Buy a new house and stop throwing money away on rent. But this can’t happen as long as her name is on mortgage for her ex’s home that he is living in with his new wife.


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## RedOnion (16 Feb 2019)

@TRAY79 
If bank will put house in ex's name, or there's any other way your friend can get name removed, they should go for it. 
In fact, she should be happy to give him half the negative equity to walk away from it cleanly, so tell her to get the cheque book out.

Are they actually divorced, it separated? If divorced, was there any agreement in relation to this property?  If not, then why?



TRAY79 said:


> Or what about if it doesnt, he is in house paying mortgage off does this give him greater rights,


Your friend needs legal advice in that scenario. There are many different circumstances so you won't get advice without the full facts, including reviewing the title documents.


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## Keant1591 (16 Feb 2019)

I am no legal expert but I would think that in the event the bank insisted on leaving her name on mortgage should the house be sold in future any shortfall or profit should be split equally regardless of the fact he was one paying mortgage. 
He is continuing to pay same amount monthly to bank as the tenant was. When tenant was in place the rental income was divided equally. Your friend should still be entitled to her share of rental income every month. What he is doing is handing her share of rent to bank every month so really they are both paying half the mortgage.


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## TRAY79 (16 Feb 2019)

Thank you. Not to sure on the divorced/separated thing. 

If she has to pay 50k negative equity she would not be able to get another mortgage, so in the event she would be just better having tenant (ex is new tenant) paying off mortgage until negative equity reduced.


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## RedOnion (16 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> Not to sure on the divorced/separated thing





TRAY79 said:


> Looking for some help for a friend.


With respect, and I know you are trying to help, the best help you can give your friend is tell her to talk to a solicitor that can go through her full circumstances.

There is a danger you will pick up something on a forum like this that does not apply in her specific circumstances.

The basic advice is if she has a chance to walk away she should jump at it. Otherwise, she needs some form of written agreement with ex in relation to share of equity that considers tax aspects (you refer to ex as tenant - if he were, your friend has a tax liability as mortgage payment could be considered rent income).


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## Purple (18 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> Thank you. Not to sure on the divorced/separated thing.
> 
> If she has to pay 50k negative equity she would not be able to get another mortgage, so in the event she would be just better having tenant (ex is new tenant) paying off mortgage until negative equity reduced.


Tell your friend to take the emotion out of the decision, get the green eyed monster off her shoulder, and do what's best for her financially.
Forget about what her ex might or might not get in the future. It is not relevant.


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## TRAY79 (18 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> Tell your friend to take the emotion out of the decision, get the green eyed monster off her shoulder, and do what's best for her financially.
> Forget about what her ex might or might not get in the future. It is not relevant.



I’m not sure if you are trying to be smart about emotion or green eyed monster.  If you read the post its about making sure she gets her FAIR share in future not really about what he gets.


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## mf1 (18 Feb 2019)

Here's an idea.

1. Let your friend  get her own advices.
2. Let your friend make her own decisions. 
3. Be grateful for all the helpful advice you've received on this website. 

mf


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## Purple (18 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> I’m not sure if you are trying to be smart about emotion or green eyed monster.  If you read the post its about making sure she gets her FAIR share in future not really about what he gets.



Your friend agreed to her ex moving back in as it suits her and leaves her better off.
The house is in negative equity so she is getting an excellent deal if he takes over the mortgage.
In short there's no current downside in this for her. 

Whether he moved in on his own, with a new wife or a new husband is irrelevant. Why their marriage failed is also totally irrelevant. 

Your friends main concern, as you have outlined, is that he may end up in an advantageous position at some stage in the future. 
In no circumstance will she be at a material loss in the future, even if he gets a material gain in the future, and she definitely gets a material gain now. 

What, other than jealousy, could be her motivation for not agreeing to this?
Avoiding the Shakespearean references; tell her not to cut her nose off despite her face.


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## Steven Barrett (18 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> @TRAY79
> If bank will put house in ex's name, or there's any other way your friend can get name removed, they should go for it.
> In* fact, she should be happy to give him half the negative equity to walk away from it cleanly, so tell her to get the cheque book out.*
> 
> ...



This.

From what I am reading, the wife seems to be concerned about the husband making money on the property in the future. What she is neglecting to look at is that he is taking on more debt than the house is actually worth, a debt he is relieving her of. As RedOnion said, is she going to write a cheque to her ex husband for taking on all the debt?

He could pay rent himself. So the half payable to him goes to the bank as a mortgage repayment, with no income tax liability to himself. The other half is paid to the ex wife as rent. She forwards it on to the bank to cover her half of the mortgage. She has to declare it as income and pay tax on it.

She will also still be liable to the full value of the debt on the property and be unable to get another mortgage herself so she can move on.

The current arrangement of him paying the mortgage is cheaper for her and him taking her off the mortgage means she can move on.

From a financial point of view, I can't see why she would hold on (from an emotional point of view, there are many!)

Edit: There is also a risk that he may be worse off in the future too, especially if he is effectively buying the house at a higher price than it is worth. If she wants a share of future gains, she will also have to share of future losses. Is she willing to do this? 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## TRAY79 (18 Feb 2019)

S Barrett - It looks very unlikely now that the banks will agree to take name off mortgage, New Partner on social welfare so her name cannot be added and his salary is too low for bank to put it into his name.

The current arrangement is cheaper for both of them not just her.  

Under the current arrangement it is hard for both of them to move on. 

My question about future gains assumed the house and mortgage stayed in joint names now.


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## RETIRED2017 (18 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> S Barrett - It looks very unlikely now that the banks will agree to take name off mortgage, New Partner on social welfare so her name cannot be added and his salary is too low for bank to put it into his name.
> 
> The current arrangement is cheaper for both of them not just her.
> 
> ...


What agreement was entered into when the got Divorced I am sure there is some agreement / arrangement in place,
If the wait twenty years until house is no longer in negative equity they may not get mortgage,

 It can get messy you are never fully Divorced under Irish law as you can see the sooner they get rid/sell house the better ,

I suspect they will sit down and sort it out among themselves if left to it,

one suggestion would be for both to overpay mortgage and get it out of negative equity and then sell,

Another suggestion bank may agree to sell now and come to an agreement to pay off short fall over a set time frame,

If they leave it for twenty years both could finish up not being able to get a mortgage,


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## TRAY79 (18 Feb 2019)

Retired2017 - Thank you.

She wanted to sell off house and to both pay off their share of negative equity but he was unwilling to do this.  He is happy with current arrangement because the amount he is paying off the mortgage is less than what he would have to pay for rent in area.

I guess she just has to wait and see.


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## Steven Barrett (18 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> S Barrett - It looks very unlikely now that the banks will agree to take name off mortgage, New Partner on social welfare so her name cannot be added and his salary is too low for bank to put it into his name.
> 
> The current arrangement is cheaper for both of them not just her.
> 
> ...



If she still owns the house and is still liable for the debt on it, she will be entitled to any future value. She really should be talking to her solicitor about it and getting something drawn up. If he is paying all the mortgage, he could claim for more than 50% in the future as he has been servicing the debt. Separation can be very messy and it's best she gets advice from experienced professionals rather than getting unqualified opinions online. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## RETIRED2017 (18 Feb 2019)

TRAY79 said:


> Retired2017 - Thank you.
> 
> She wanted to sell off house and to both pay off their share of negative equity but he was unwilling to do this.  He is happy with current arrangement because the amount he is paying off the mortgage is less than what he would have to pay for rent in area.
> 
> I guess she just has to wait and see.


I am sure they came to some arrangement about house when they got Divorced ,
The only advice I would give her is to save up a lump sum to cover her share of the negative equity she may already have a lump sum in place ,


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