# Easing of restrictions from April 12th



## odyssey06 (30 Mar 2021)

RTE reporting on easing of restrictions from *12th April *to move to some sort of Level 4.

People can travel anywhere within their counties and more than 14,000 construction workers will get back building homes.
Two households can also meet outdoors, away from homes and gardens.


Two weeks later the numbers able to attend funerals will increase to 25.
At this stage too, sports like tennis and golf will return as will children's sports training.


A review of the possible easing of restrictions for the month of May is expected to take place before 4 May.
They include the re-opening of hairdressers and barbers, the phased return of non-essential retail and the full resumption of construction work.


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## odyssey06 (30 Mar 2021)

From 12 April it will be stay in your county OR within 20km of your home.


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## odyssey06 (30 Mar 2021)

Outdoor sports like tennis and golf, non-contact training for under 18s will be permitted from 26 April.
Heritage sites and State attractions will re-open on this date.


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## W200 (30 Mar 2021)

In this era of spin doctors , media handlers , fondlers and advisors WHY is information ALWAYS released / leaked before the Taoiseach makes his official speech to the nation . He is telling us nothing that hasnt already been announced. 
There is obviously some reason for this .
Can anyone explain.
Genuine question. I dont have an issue with the actual information. !


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## odyssey06 (30 Mar 2021)

People who are fully vaccinated are now able to meet with other fully vaccinated people without masks and physical distancing.


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## Sunny (30 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> People who are fully vaccinated are now able to meet with other fully vaccinated people without masks and physical distancing.



Not really since it is still limited to two households which I struggle to understand....


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## odyssey06 (30 Mar 2021)

W200 said:


> In this era of spin doctors , media handlers , fondlers and advisors WHY is information ALWAYS released / leaked before the Taoiseach makes his official speech to the nation . He is telling us nothing that hasnt already been announced.
> There is obviously some reason for this .
> Can anyone explain.
> Genuine question. I dont have an issue with the actual information. !


Sssh. You are not allowed to leak about the leaks... tis one for shooting the breeze that one.


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## Merowig (30 Mar 2021)

So GAA inter-county teams are allowed to return to training on the 19th of April  but individual sports like golf where there is no interaction has to wait another week ? From my point of view another senseless arbitrary rule.
And still Mass not allowed officially till May most likely? Ireland came so far that were are again underground religious services happening right now - like under British rule...


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## joe sod (31 Mar 2021)

It's obvious there is a bias towards the gaa being the game of the proletariat even though a big reason for the jump in cases at end of summer was the opening of the gaa. Drumgoon winning the county junior b final and yahoos being unable to contain themselves.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> People who are fully vaccinated are now able to meet with other fully vaccinated people without masks and physical distancing.


Seems crazy that those for whom most has been sacrificed, by those who are least affected by the virus, will be able to resume their old life first.


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## odyssey06 (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Seems crazy that those for whom most has been sacrificed, by those who are least affected by the virus, will be able to resume their old life first.


My parents didn't go beyond their front gate as per the advice in the first lockdown
When other people last summer went back to playing sports, staycations, eating outdoors, they did not - like many of their generation.
That generation has borne a heavy burden too, and the stress of severe consequences from the virus has hung over them for longer.

So it doesn't strike me as crazy at all.

ps I think opening the pubs for them might be a step too far in terms of social solidarity, but perhaps hairdressers? Would clear the backlog of people needing personal services quicker.


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## W200 (31 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> Sssh. You are not allowed to leak about the leaks... tis one for shooting the breeze that one.


OOPS . Mods please feel free to move.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> My parents didn't go beyond their front gate as per the advice in the first lockdown
> When other people last summer went back to playing sports, staycations, eating outdoors, they did not - like many of their generation.
> That generation has borne a heavy burden too, and the stress of severe consequences from the virus has hung over them for longer.
> 
> ...


Everyone sacrificed for those who were at risk. The greatest risk was age. The greatest impact was bourn by those who were at low/no risk from the virus. 

I'm in my mid 40's, I consider my cohort to be least affected by the lockdown. 

Children, teenagers and those in their 20's have been most affected by the lockdown. In many cases it will have life altering impacts on their education, employment and mental health. They are the ones who have lost their jobs. They are the ones who will have to repay the €30 billion. They are the ones who will be further excluded from the housing market when the oldies spend their €15 billion in savings, pushing up house prices ever further. 

The idea that those who have lost their job and are now even further excluded from the life their parents took as a given should continue to suffer while those for whom they are suffering go back to normal is outrageous.


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## odyssey06 (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Everyone sacrificed for those who were at risk. The greatest risk was age. The greatest impact was bourn by those who were at low/no risk from the virus.


Not going to continue this debate further as you don't engage with the points I made and it's a rabbit hole to the topic of the thread.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> Not going to continue this debate further when you ignore the points I made and it's a rabbit hole to the topic of the thread.


I'm not ignoring the points you've made. My parents are in the same boat. 

They are not seeing their business collapse. They are not at risk of losing their home. They didn't spend months working from home in a small apartment while trying to entertain/home school young kids. 
They pottered around their house and missed their grandchildren and didn't go to restaurants two or three times a week.
They do recognise that other people have made far greater sacrifices than they did and that they made those sacrifices for my parents and people like them.


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## Sunny (31 Mar 2021)

At least we are spending 17m of taxpayers money on creating a continental style outdoor dining country.......

I believe, there are also talks about moving Ireland a bit further South as part of the package....


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## Bobbyg (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Seems crazy that those for whom most has been sacrificed, by those who are least affected by the virus, will be able to resume their old life first.


Seems logical to let people that are vaccinated to start getting back to some normality, isn't that the point of the vaccination?


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## joe sod (31 Mar 2021)

Bobbyg said:


> Seems logical to let people that are vaccinated to start getting back to some normality, isn't that the point of the vaccination?


You could also say it was logical to let the young and the economic life of country to continue at a much higher level while sheltering the old and vulnerable. However that was not the decision that was made, Ireland chose to close everything down much more drastically and longer than other countries. This was for "social solidarity " and "we're all in this together " but as soon as the old are vaccinated social solidarity goes out the window


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## EmmDee (31 Mar 2021)

joe sod said:


> It's obvious there is a bias towards the gaa being the game of the proletariat even though a big reason for the jump in cases at end of summer was the opening of the gaa. Drumgoon winning the county junior b final and yahoos being unable to contain themselves.



I'm no particular fan of the GAA and how the clubs managed the last lockdown - but in fairness what they are allowing is the inter-county training rather than local club training. The equivalent of elite teams in Rugby & Football.

So the Junior B's and yahoos don't get to not contain themselves (yet)


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## Bobbyg (31 Mar 2021)

joe sod said:


> You could also say it was logical to let the young and the economic life of country to continue at a much higher level while sheltering the old and vulnerable. However that was not the decision that was made, Ireland chose to close everything down much more drastically and longer than other countries. This was for "social solidarity " and "we're all in this together " but as soon as the old are vaccinated social solidarity goes out the window


I agree but I think hospital capacity dictated what we could and couldn't do but I don't think it makes sense now to say we need to wait until everyone is vaccinated to open up again. I am curious to know how they are going to monitor who is vaccinated and who is not


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Bobbyg said:


> I agree but I think hospital capacity dictated what we could and couldn't do


Have you looked at the age profile of those who end up in hospital with Covid?


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## Sophrosyne (31 Mar 2021)

My understanding is that using an age rather than occupational criteria though it may be a blunt instrument, means a faster vaccine rollout for everyone.

It is of course, contingent on vaccine supply.

The UK and I think most of the US states are using the same criteria and case numbers, deaths and hospitalizations there have fallen dramatically.


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## Sophrosyne (31 Mar 2021)

.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Sophrosyne said:


> My understanding is that using an age rather than occupational criteria though it may be a blunt instrument, means a faster vaccine rollout for everyone.
> 
> It is of course, contingent on vaccine supply.
> 
> The UK and I think most of the US states are using the same criteria and case numbers, deaths and hospitalizations there have fallen dramatically.


Yep, given that we have no national health database and no national identity card system the old rollout criteria were a disaster waiting to happen. This is much better. 
If you are a young teacher then you are very unlikely to get sick if you get it. If you live with older relatives they are now going to get vaccinated sooner. Where's the downside? Is the disgruntlement from some of the representative groups down to a perceived "lack of respect"? Would the Unions like the rest of us to give them another round of applause?


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## Bobbyg (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Have you looked at the age profile of those who end up in hospital with Covid?


What has that got to do with capacity?


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Bobbyg said:


> What has that got to do with capacity?


Young people are far less likely to end up in hospital. Therefore if keeping hospitalisation rates down is a key metric then let young people go about their business once the oldies have been jabbed.


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## Bobbyg (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Young people are far less likely to end up in hospital. Therefore if keeping hospitalisation rates down is a key metric then let young people go about their business once the oldies have been jabbed.


Fair point and I agree with you, I misinterpreted your earlier statement when you said it seemed crazy that older vaccinated people should be allowed get back to normal but what you are saying is that it is crazy not to let everyone get back to normal once they are vaccinated.


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## tomdublin (31 Mar 2021)

W200 said:


> In this era of spin doctors , media handlers , fondlers and advisors WHY is information ALWAYS released / leaked before the Taoiseach makes his official speech to the nation . He is telling us nothing that hasnt already been announced.
> There is obviously some reason for this .
> Can anyone explain.
> Genuine question. I dont have an issue with the actual information. !


It's kite flying.  If something leaked ends up being particularly badly received by the public/media/"opinion leaders" it will be changed before the official announcement.  It's a reflection of cowardice basically, especially since many of the same officials who leak then go on complaining about leaks.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Bobbyg said:


> Fair point and I agree with you, I misinterpreted your earlier statement when you said it seemed crazy that older vaccinated people should be allowed get back to normal but what you are saying is that it is crazy not to let everyone get back to normal once they are vaccinated.


I'm saying that if older people are vaccinated then everyone should be allowed to go back to normal as younger people are at a very low risk of serious illness or hospitalisation.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

tomdublin said:


> It's kite flying.  If something leaked ends up being particularly badly received by the public/media/"opinion leaders" it will be changed before the official announcement.  It's a form of cowardice basically.


Bowing to the opinion writers in the Irish Times and the Twits Twitting on Twitter.


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## odyssey06 (31 Mar 2021)

Children's shoes retailers added to essential retail list









						Shops to be allowed sell children's shoes in store, by appointment only
					

The Tánaiste had earlier confirmed that work is underway on the issue.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Childish comments from RTE presenter this morning when interviewing the Minister for Finance not withstanding this is the right decision.


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## Sunny (31 Mar 2021)

odyssey06 said:


> Children's shoes retailers added to essential retail list
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to say that while I can understand the Governments frustrations as every business comes out with saying some element is essential, I thought the Government handling of this issue was dreadful over the 24 hours. We had Leo and Pascal coming out saying buy them online ignoring the fact that a) Children's feet need to be measured and b) People might not be able to afford to buy online and then wait for a refund when returning the shoes before buying again. And that is ignoring children with special requirements. I then heard Pascal say that some shoe shops are offering appointments like that is a good thing despite the fact that is against the requirements and every business would like to open on an appointment basis but they are not allowed even open on click and collect basis. 

I know it's a small thing in the grand scheme of things but it these small things that become big things if politicians don't pay proper respect to the issues raised. And these issues were raised by medical professionals. They reacted quickly in the end but I have to say whatever highly paid advisors the Government have at their disposal these days are not doing a great job when it comes to communication.


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

Sunny said:


> And these issues were raised by medical professionals.


I don't think you need to be a doctor, or any other sort of a professional, to know that small children need their feet measured for new shoes.
This government has got much better (or is that much less bad) at communicating with the public but they still seem to be unable to speak with a single rational voice. For two centre left parties with so much in common (and the small rump of the Greens who want to live in the real world) it's amazing that they can't get their act together.


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## EasilyAmused (31 Mar 2021)

Merowig said:


> So GAA inter-county teams are allowed to return to training on the 19th of April  but individual sports like golf where there is no interaction has to wait another week ? From my point of view another senseless arbitrary rule.



How is it arbitrary? Professional sports have been on-going. Certain amateur sports played to a professional level, eg,  GAA, were permitted during Lockdown Two but not during Lockdown Three. 

Daddy going for a round of golf while Mammy plays tennis and junior plays tiddly-winks is hardly on a par (npi).


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## Purple (31 Mar 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> How is it arbitrary? Professional sports have been on-going. Certain amateur sports played to a professional level, eg,  GAA, were permitted during Lockdown Two but not during Lockdown Three.
> 
> Daddy going for a round of golf while Mammy plays tennis and junior plays tiddly-winks is hardly on a par (npi).


The Professional sports people within a particular squad are part of a single bubble. Amateur sports people have day jobs and so can't form a squad based bubble. That's why the women's 6 nations was postponed but the men's one went ahead.


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## Merowig (31 Mar 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> How is it arbitrary? Professional sports have been on-going. Certain amateur sports played to a professional level, eg,  GAA, were permitted during Lockdown Two but not during Lockdown Three.
> 
> Daddy going for a round of golf while Mammy plays tennis and junior plays tiddly-winks is hardly on a par (npi).


And the GAA is essential how exactly?


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## EasilyAmused (31 Mar 2021)

Merowig said:


> And the GAA is essential how exactly?



I don’t think I said it was essential? I don’t think Six Nations rugby is essential, not us being beaten by Luxembourg in soccer.


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## EasilyAmused (31 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> The Professional sports people within a particular squad are part of a single bubble.



You make a very good point but the ROI soccer bubble had numerous Covid outbreaks. Pity they didn’t have more. Their performance was abysmal.


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## Merowig (31 Mar 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> I don’t think I said it was essential? I don’t think Six Nations rugby is essential, not us being beaten by Luxembourg in soccer.


That's here the arbitrary part - "professional sport" is declared simply as "essential" and allowed to continue.


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## EasilyAmused (31 Mar 2021)

Sunny said:


> Not really since it is still limited to two households which I struggle to understand....



Yes, two. Let’s give it a month or so and see what sort of impact it has. 
We know that fully vaccinated people will not die and will not get seriously ill. We don’t know (yet) to what extend they may pass on the virus, to others who are not vaccinated in the household of someone vaccinated. 

If we learned anything from the phased reopening of society last summer, it’s that accelerating it is not a good idea. 

What’s the rush?


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## EasilyAmused (31 Mar 2021)

Merowig said:


> That's here the arbitrary part - "professional sport" is declared simply as "essential" and allowed to continue.



GAA isn’t professional.


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## Sunny (31 Mar 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Yes, two. Let’s give it a month or so and see what sort of impact it has.
> We know that fully vaccinated people will not die and will not get seriously ill. We don’t know (yet) to what extend they may pass on the virus, to others who are not vaccinated in the household of someone vaccinated.
> 
> If we learned anything from the phased reopening of society last summer, it’s that accelerating it is not a good idea.
> ...



What data are you expecting to see after a month? People who are vaccinated are not allowed to visit a house with unvaccinated people. We are talking about everyone being vaccinated. So only two vaccinated people or two vaccinated households can meet. So two 75 year old vaccinated women can meet up for a coffee but they can't invite a third vaccinated person? What's the point? Let vaccinated people meet up. I would even let personal services open for vaccinated over 70's as I can see the impact of something really simple like not having her hair done is having on my elderly mother's general mental health.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

People that have been vaccinated with Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 80% less likely to transmit Covid-19. 
The reduction, if any, with AstraZeneca is unknown. 
Movement of people, in this case the movement of vaccinated people, needs to be limited for the time being. 
They may not be able to pass the virus onto the vaccinated person they’re visiting, but they may pass it into the hairdresser or the baker they bought some cake from.

I had Covid last year. It was reasonable to believe I was immune for up to six months afterward. This didn’t exempt me from visiting a friend who had Covid. 

We’re all in this together, vaccinated, post-Covid or otherwise.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

Merowig said:


> And the GAA is essential how exactly?


Sun dried tomatoes and moisturiser and hair dye and thousands of other things aren't essential but we can still buy them. There are lots of things that aren't essential but we have to function as a society and try to reduce the collateral damage caused by the irrational fear around this virus.

A really good example of over reaction to a crisis was how Japan reacted to the Fukushima nuclear "disaster". The International Atomic Agency said that the radiation levels caused by the meltdown were so low that they posed no danger to human health but the populist reaction saw around 200,000 people relocated from the area. It is estimated that the move contributed to the deaths of 500 mostly elderly people, far more than died due to the accident or would have died if nobody was evacuated. We need to be careful that we don't concentrate on one thing to the determent of the bigger picture.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

Sunny said:


> I would even let personal services open for vaccinated over 70's as I can see the impact of something really simple like not having her hair done is having on my elderly mother's general mental health.


So we'll have more people moving around, travelling outside their 5Km and generally mixing. 
I think that once we have vaccinated everyone over 60 we should open everything up. We'll have vaccinated over 90% of the people who are likely to end up in hospital or die. We have one of the best funded health services in the world. It's time they stopped making excuses for their waste and inefficiency and sorted themselves out because their organisational incompetence is the reason we are the most locked down country in the EU.


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## odyssey06 (1 Apr 2021)

Purple said:


> So we'll have more people moving around, travelling outside their 5Km and generally mixing.
> I think that once we have vaccinated everyone over 60 we should open everything up. We'll have vaccinated over 90% of the people who are likely to end up in hospital or die. We have one of the best funded health services in the world. It's time they stopped making excuses for their waste and inefficiency and sorted themselves out because their organisational incompetence is the reason we are the most locked down country in the EU.


We were having days of 6000 cases with restrictions.
If you start having 10,000 cases a day then you are still going to end up with a significant number of 'unlikely' hospitalizations and long covid cases.
That's why we can't just open everything up and let this thing rip.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

I friend of mine sent me a text from the USA last weekend. 
He was having a beer in a pub (photo sent too) while his daughter was gone to softball training and his son gone to a friends birthday party. 

That’s three activities that are not permitted here. In fact, two of them are impossible. 

Because of their fast vaccine rollout, things are opening up fast in the USA. 

However, their cases jumped by 15% in one day just a few days ago. 

Vaccines are not a silver bullet. They’re just another arrow in the quiver.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

Furthermore, it’s generally agreed that B117 is a very different beast from last years Covid-19. 
Little is known about P1, except that it’s bad. 10% of the cases in France are P1. Their hospitals are at capacity, their schools are closing, and they’re going into lockdown again. 
What of other variants like South Africa, Nigeria, Bristol and California? These are the new ones we know about, what about the new variants we don’t know about (yet)?


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Furthermore, it’s generally agreed that B117 is a very different beast from last years Covid-19.
> Little is known about P1, except that it’s bad. 10% of the cases in France are P1. Their hospitals are at capacity, their schools are closing, and they’re going into lockdown again.
> What of other variants like South Africa, Nigeria, Bristol and California? These are the new ones we know about, what about the new variants we don’t know about (yet)?


So do we stay in lockdown forever?
Or for years?

At some stage we have to stop spending our children's future while at the same time we wreck it.
I don't know what the answer is but at some stage we have to face the music.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

Herd immunity.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Herd immunity.


The "what if" is a new variant that doesn't respond to the vaccine so we are always chasing another vaccine and always 6-12 months away from everything being okay.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

True.
The more people that are vaccinated, the less virus there is around, and the less chance there is of the virus mutating into new variants. 

In six months time most of the western world should have herd immunity within their borders. 

The problem is new variants elsewhere. This could rumble on indefinitely in non Zero Covid countries.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> In six months time most of the western world should have herd immunity within their borders.
> 
> The problem is new variants elsewhere. This could rumble on indefinitely in non Zero Covid countries.


Which goes back to the fact that we should stop vaccinating people under the age of 50 or 45 until all the older people in the rest of the world are vaccinated. 
I'm uncomfortable getting a vaccine before someone else who is 50-100 times more likely to die from the disease. 

It also shows just how utterly stupid that Zero Covid nonsense is since there's no way of maintaining such a strategy without a North Korea type border or a perpetual lockdown.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

The Zero Covid countries will vaccinate their entire populations later. NewZealand has already begun vaccinating. 
Then they’ll be in the same boat as everyone else. 

Except they’ll have none of the negative effects of national yo-yo lockdown, they’ll have a greater choice of vaccines to choose from, arguably vaccines that have been designed with B117, P1, etc as targets as well as the parent strain, and they’ll cost less too. 
Oh, and in the case of NZ, a body count of 26. 

BTW, Zero Covid means zero tolerance to Covid. 
Zero Covid does not mean Zero Vaccine.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> BTW, Zero Covid means zero tolerance to Covid.


That means perpetual lockdowns as new variants appear. It means a hard border (one with high walls) with the UK.
The cost of the vaccines is dwarfed by the cost of the lockdown.

New Zealand is 4,000km from its nearest neighbour. We are closer to North America. Comparing us, or anyone else, to New Zealand is stupid.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

There is no lockdown in New Zealand at present. There has been no national lockdown there since August. There are no masks. There is no social distancing. Life is normal except that the ports and airports are free of international travellers, and 26 families are grieving loved ones lost to Covid-19.
Every few weeks a case is found. That case is traced and isolated, and there is a five day local lockdown. The body count remains at 26.  

Zero Covid does not mean Zero Vaccination:

For the next couple of months they’ll be vaccinating 7,500 people each day, then ramping up to over 50,000 per day. 

Come July they expect receiving vaccines faster than they can be administered. 

And that’s just New Zealand. Isle of Man is Zero Covid. 

Vietnam borders three other countries, has a population of 100,000,000 is Zero Covid and has a body count of 33 or so.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> There is no lockdown in New Zealand at present. There has been no national lockdown there since August. There are no masks. There is no social distancing. Life is normal except that the ports and airports are free of international travellers, and 26 families are grieving loved ones lost to Covid-19.
> Every few weeks a case is found. That case is traced and isolated, and there is a five day lockdown.


Again; New Zealand is 4,000Km from its nearest neighbour. It's up there with the international space station when it comes to being far away from the next guy. It is the most isolated country in the world with a temperate climate.


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

Purple said:


> Again; New Zealand is 4,000Km from its nearest neighbour.



Yes it is. How about Isle of Man?
And Vietnam?

Y’know @Purple, when you’re in a hole you should stop digging.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Yes it is. How about Isle of Man?
> And Vietnam?


Vietnam the police State and Isle of Man the tiny island that doesn't share a land border with another country?


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## EasilyAmused (1 Apr 2021)

Purple said:


> Vietnam the police State and Isle of Man the tiny island that doesn't share a land border with another country?



An excuse for every country! 
Keep digging, keep digging.... you’ll end up in New Zealand yourself eventually.

@Purple, there are none so blind as those who are to ignorant to see. 

Go enjoy your day @Purple. It is April 1st after all


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Y’know @Purple, when you’re in a hole you should stop digging .


On that we agree. The whole Zero Covid thing has been dismissed by the Government and State institutions. We don't have the location. We don't have the compliant population. We have a grossly inefficient health service so contact tracing etc doesn't work to the required level. We have a small and inept police force. We have no Army worth talking about. One of us is in a hole here and it aint me.


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## Purple (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> An excuse for every country!
> Keep digging, keep digging.... you’ll end up in New Zealand yourself eventually.
> 
> @Purple, there are none so blind as those who are to ignorant to see.
> ...



So why don't we go with Zero Covid? 
What is the Government and every State agency against it? Why has the Chief Medical Officer and the Deputy Chief Medical Officer dismissed the notion out of hand?
What gem of wisdom have you got that they have missed?
What's the conspiracy here? G'wan, I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next person.


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## Paul O Mahoney (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> Yes it is. How about Isle of Man?
> And Vietnam?
> 
> Y’know @Purple, when you’re in a hole you should stop digging.


The Isle of Man came out of Lockdown on February 2nd , cases went up  and they reentered Lockdown at the start of March. It was widely reported.

If you look at the area of South East Asia with millions of people and then look at reported cases it seems implausible that those figures are accurate...... Cambodia,Vietnam, have about 2500 total cases, Laos 49 , Malaysia 346000..

Malaysia being a fairly modern country with proper reporting capabilities.


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## Ceist Beag (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> there are none so blind as those who are to ignorant to see.


The irony....


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## Merowig (1 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> The Zero Covid countries will vaccinate their entire populations later. NewZealand has already begun vaccinating.
> Then they’ll be in the same boat as everyone else.
> 
> Except they’ll have none of the negative effects of national yo-yo lockdown, they’ll have a greater choice of vaccines to choose from, arguably vaccines that have been designed with B117, P1, etc as targets as well as the parent strain, and they’ll cost less too.
> ...


A complete closure of the borders will be challenged rightly in court up to the European Court. Also it will lead to a further accelerated Exodus of many many foreigners. I would also definitely relocate. How long would the border then be closed ? A year? Longer? Some Companies would then be forced to relocate positions as well. 

On the plus side it would help with the housing crisis  

Zero Covid is a wet dream of a few - very unlikely to be implemented and will be very quickly challenged. It completely ignores geography, political environment, economic integration and population structures.


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## Merowig (1 Apr 2021)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> The Isle of Man came out of Lockdown on February 2nd , cases went up  and they reentered Lockdown at the start of March. It was widely reported.
> 
> If you look at the area of South East Asia with millions of people and then look at reported cases it seems implausible that those figures are accurate...... Cambodia,Vietnam, have about 2500 total cases, Laos 49 , Malaysia 346000..
> 
> Malaysia being a fairly modern country with proper reporting capabilities.


Very good point - if you do not test you obviously do not find Covid cases...
Chinas numbers are fabricated as well....


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## Purple (6 Apr 2021)

Given that new evidence shows that 0.1%, or one in one thousand, cases of Covid are traced to outdoor contact can we stop harassing people drinking outside pubs, let sports teams train, let people meet up outdoors and generally dial back the irrational fear?


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## EasilyAmused (6 Apr 2021)

What level will Ireland be in from April 12th?  Level 4 is it?

I see Fintan O’Toole an article about he success of Asian countries like VietNam in address the Coronavirus.  Long story short, they just did what they did for SARS and MERS. Simoles. 

Meanwhile as New Zealand are rolling out their vaccines they’re opening up international travel. Starting with Australia.


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## Purple (6 Apr 2021)

EasilyAmused said:


> What level will Ireland be in from April 12th?  Level 4 is it?
> 
> I see Fintan O’Toole an article about he success of Asian countries like VietNam in address the Coronavirus.  Long story short, they just did what they did for SARS and MERS. Simoles.
> 
> Meanwhile as New Zealand are rolling out their vaccines they’re opening up international travel. Starting with Australia.


It seems that there is no topic which Fintan does not deem himself qualifies to pontificate on. Vietnam is a nominally communist police state which closed its borders for months. We've been around this track a few times now. I really thought the Zero Covid fantasists has realised how silly the notion is.


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## EasilyAmused (6 Apr 2021)

How is it silly if it is working?
It’s too late for Ireland, no one is arguing that (I’m not anyway).
The only people in zero Covid counties that aren’t benefiting are the undertakers.


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## mathepac (10 Apr 2021)

Purple said:


> I really thought the Zero Covid fantasists has realised how silly the notion is.


Why is zero covid a fantasy? We were 100 years rabies-free in this country until some eejit smuggled in an infected animal last year and destroyed our  record. How many cases of smallpox, leprosy, polio, plague (black death) have we had in this country in the last couple of decades?  If we aim for the stars there's a chance we'll get there, aim lower and I guarantee we won't.


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## EasilyAmused (10 Apr 2021)

I was talking to a neighbour of mine yesterday. Her previously wayward son moved to New Zealand 18 months ago. It’s been the making of him, first time he’s been financially independent. Saved up to buy a camper van and spent the last few months travelling around the country. Is attending a music festival this weekend.

I’m not sure what the quality of homegrown Kiwi bands is though.


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## Purple (11 Apr 2021)

mathepac said:


> How many cases of smallpox, leprosy, polio, plague (black death)


Smallpox no longer exists outside laboratories. Polio is also nearly gone (thanks to a large extent to Bill Gates), leprosy is easily treated and most people who are infected with the virus don’t develop the disease. The Black Death (pneumonic plague) is fast acting and so easier to contain. It’s also 98% confined to Africa.

Covid19 is contagious during a relatively long period where the patient is asymptotic. We share a land border with another country and are a very open economy. 
if we want to have any sort of economy when this is over we can’t close the country. We also have a small police force, a small army and a culture of ignoring rules. We do have a very well funded Health Service but unfortunately it is extremely badly run and so is unable to do the necessary levels of contact tracing. Basically we lack the organisational competence within our public sector and the attitudinal compliance within our general population to pull it off, even if we were willing to wreck the economy trying.


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## EasilyAmused (11 Apr 2021)

Level 5 tomorrow? Bring. It. On.


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## noproblem (11 Apr 2021)

Thankfully I live in a large county and it is my intention to visit many parts of it over the next month. Not ideal of course that many establishments are closed and i've no doubt that people living in popular areas for tourists would rather not see people taking over their area for picnics, swimming, touring, etc. My wife and myself will keep a low profile, probably bring a flask, a bite to eat and our runners. If there's places we can spend a few bob and need what's on offer we'll gladly oblige. To me the biggest winners in this in a commercial sense will be garage forecourts/shops and good luck to them. It'll be great to go for a spin in fairness, not only for ourselves but the car as well.


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## EasilyAmused (11 Apr 2021)

I’m hitting the beach. A nice stroll and seaweed for the garden.


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## EasilyAmused (13 Apr 2021)

Glad to see that RTÉ have replaced their “Stay At Home” subtitle with “Stay Local”.


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## Ceist Beag (13 Apr 2021)

The next phase will see it replaced with "Careful now"...


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## odyssey06 (14 Apr 2021)

Note that as part of the changes from 12th April, you do not need a 'reasonable excuse' if you are within your own county or 20kms of residence.
This now only applies if you are travelling beyong these limits.


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## EasilyAmused (14 Apr 2021)

Ceist Beag said:


> The next phase will see it replaced with "Careful now"...


Didn’t Boris Johnson have a slogan like that last summer? And then he explained it in a Stephen Donnelly-esq manner to make it further vague.


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## EasilyAmused (16 Apr 2021)

MM has begun rolling back on the government’s pledge that this (third) lockdown will be the final one. 
Said if there is a fourth wave later this year there will probably be another lockdown.

At the time it seemed ridiculous to be making such a promise anyway.


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