# Got final warning about my motor tax dated ten days before.. but I got no reminder.



## galleyslave (26 Aug 2010)

I got my 'final warning' the other day that my motor tax was overdue.

Funny thing is I never got my reminder. Also my final warning was dated 10 days before it arrived. 

This really ticked off as I could have been done for no tax. I rang motor tax in Shannon and they confirmed it wasn't posted for until just before I got it so they sat on the damn final reminder. muppets! 

Must be the latest revenue generating scheme by the bandidos running the country


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## boaber (26 Aug 2010)

why not pay it on time in the first place?


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## galleyslave (26 Aug 2010)

boaber said:


> why not pay it on time in the first place?



yeah, that was the plan, but I didn't realise it had expired. The reminder would have, well, reminded me. That didn't arrive and the final reminder was late. 

Pretty sloppy from motor tax don't you think.


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## RMCF (26 Aug 2010)

Perhaps you should know when your tax expires?

After all, if you take the long walk round to the front of your windscreen you'll see the date.

Why should it be someone else's responsibility?


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## galleyslave (26 Aug 2010)

perhaps. but jeez, I'm not asking for some kind of forgiveness here (or flagellation either). The tax is paid now that I realised it was due. I'm simply, you know, shooting the breeze, letting off steam etc.. 

Still, if the dept of motor tax are going to issue reminders and final warnings then in all fairness, there ought to be a degree of responsibility on their part to actually issue the things in a timely and reliable fashion. It IS easy to forget these things.


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## gianni (26 Aug 2010)

Would have to agree with previous posters - why not pay your tax on time instead of ranting about the 'muppets' ?


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## micmclo (26 Aug 2010)

I wondering is there even a need for Shannon to be sending reminders and final reminders.

You have staff tied up in watching backlogs and sending tens of thousands of letters.

Is there realy a need? Put the responsibility on the motorist.

Instant money saver, well if the staff get deployed onto something else anyway


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## Howitzer (26 Aug 2010)

Almost certainly auto-generated letters but I think your point still stands. I assume they send the reminders as if they didn't there'd be more like GS just letting it slide. If everyone let it slide by a couple of weeks road tax revenue would be down by 5% per annum. More than offsetting the cost of sending letters to a few slackers.

Gallyslave, get the finger out. You've single-handedly bankrupted the nation.


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## galleyslave (26 Aug 2010)

yeah, clearly I'm public enemy number one for not examining my windshield every day ! 

Actually, Im a hero to the nation for paying my arrears and interest but that's another story, and I'm modest by nature. 

Seriously, I think too many folks here are missing my point - it's not about late payment of motor tax. Its about the motor tax depts incompetence - ie inability to send out the letters they are supposed to send out and the content thereof. Case in point - the reminder includes the PIN code you need to pay tax online, the final warning does not include the pin - why? Also, why print a final warning saying you have 10 days to pay and then not post it for 10 days. Muppets, and I say again, muppets.


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## thedaras (26 Aug 2010)

While I hear what you are saying gallyslave, and I can see how we are in most cases so used to getting our reminder in the post,that if we don't receive it,we can easily let it slip.

However another issue was raised about the cost of this,and a poster mentioned that the revenue that is taken in more than makes up for the cost of postage,it still is something that should be looked at from the point of view of saving money,taxpayers money.
Most people have now got mobile phones and or emails,surely this is a much more efficient and cost effective way of notifying us that our tax is due?If not maybe we could opt to have it sent by post ,but you would have to pay the cost...
I haven't checked yet,but if you multiply the amount of car owners by the cost of an envelope a stamp, paper,ink, staff etc,it must be a huge amount of money,never mind the waste of time,paper etc,maybe this can be dealt with by the greens..think Ill email Mr Gormley./less.....


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

don't forget the reminders include the pin required to log on and pay online. Not sending the reminder in the first place costs us, the end user, far more in wasted time


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## DB74 (27 Aug 2010)

Probably driving a commercial vehicle as well which you only use to bring your wheelie bin from one end of your driveway to the other

Bleeding tax dodgers!


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

howdja guess, and it's a 16 litre v48 with 2MPG and 2000KG CO2/mile and I just luvs it!


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## lightswitch (27 Aug 2010)

galleyslave said:


> yeah, clearly I'm public enemy number one for not examining my windshield every day !
> 
> Actually, Im a hero to the nation for paying my arrears and interest but that's another story, and I'm modest by nature.
> 
> Seriously, I think too many folks here are missing my point - it's not about late payment of motor tax. Its about the motor tax depts incompetence - ie inability to send out the letters they are supposed to send out and the content thereof. Case in point - the reminder includes the PIN code you need to pay tax online, the final warning does not include the pin - why? Also, why print a final warning saying you have 10 days to pay and then not post it for 10 days. Muppets, and I say again, muppets.


 
I see your point Galleyslave  Sympathy can be a rare commodity around here sometimes but if you're ever looking to get a good old bashing someone will always oblige


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## remey (27 Aug 2010)

lightswitch said:


> I see your point Galleyslave Sympathy can be a rare commodity around here sometimes but if you're ever looking to get a good old bashing someone will always oblige


I agree with lightswitch. Has nobody ever forgotten about an annual bill until the reminder/renewal letter lands on your doorstep???
Its Friday folks, cheer up


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

remey said:


> I agree with lightswitch. Has nobody ever forgotten about an annual bill until the reminder/renewal letter lands on your doorstep???


 
Probably everybody.  But they don't blame the provider for not reminding them.

I get a credit card bill every month.  If I'm slow to pay, I get hit with a penalty charge - not a reminder.

Maybe that's the approach the motor tax office should adopt.


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## DB74 (27 Aug 2010)

There should be the option of having the reminder sent by e-mail instead of by post.

Also, I lost my pin number for my renewal lats year and when I phoned to get a replacement the woman in the motor tax office started moaning about how many phone calls she has to answer from people about lost pin numbers each day. As I said to her - why not just keep the same pin number and then you wouldn't have to keep re-issuing them.


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## lightswitch (27 Aug 2010)

You can actually tell the ones who would survive very well if Ireland ever becomes a dictator led state rather than a Republic............. woops, has that already happened and I fogot to open the letter


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

staples - its a lot easier to remember a recurring bill like the credit card than an annual one, dont you think? 

DB74 - when I phoned to find out about the non issuance of the reminder and the late delivery of the final notice the only solution offered was to report the reminder! I told her  I wasn't prepared to drive around illegally any longer than i had to so her solution was useless...


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

No. You get bills - you pay them. Then you get some more and you do the same with them.

If the tax office imposed a penalty for non-payment within 30 days, would it alter your approach?


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

jeez, you're a bit sanctimonious aren't you? There is a penalty for non payment. I've already said I've paid the tax, arrears and interest. The issue here is not the late payment, it's the system. It sucks. They supposedly send reminders - they didn't. The final notice doesn't include the PIN required to pay online even though the reminder does. The final notice was late. The motor tax office then can't tell you when it was posted without 'going down to the mail room'. There's no call logging system at the motor tax office. My gripe wasn't with paying tax (although the amount sticks in the craw) it's with the messed up systems they have. 

The thing is you, and others seem to take great self righteous delight in telling me how I ought to have paid when it was due. I guess you've never forgotten to pay a bill yourself or dealt with any govt agency and had to deal with a messed up system that makes life difficult.


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

galleyslave said:


> The thing is you, and others seem to take great self righteous delight in telling me how I ought to have paid when it was due. I guess you've never forgotten to pay a bill yourself or dealt with any govt agency and had to deal with a messed up system that makes life difficult.


 
I'm not telling you how and when you ought to pay your bills and I certainly don't take any delight. I've missed loads of bills over the years and have had to deal with the consequences (including penalty fees on credit cards where appropriate). 

I just think it's a bit rich blaming the tax office because they don't stroke your tummy and beg the way you think they should.


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

oh come on. I'm not blaming anybody for not paying on time. I've paid the tax in the end. Thats not the point and I dont recall begging. I'm having a go at the system. Maybe its your tummy that needs stroking - lots of wind there *g*


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

If breathing was a voluntary action, there are some who would be dead becasue they felt it was someone's else's responsibility to remind them to exhale.


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

you again ? have you nothing better to do.. here's a reminder for you... on yer bike...


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

If only you were as vigilant of your bills as you are of this thread, you wouldn't need reminders.


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## DB74 (27 Aug 2010)

This post will be deleted if not edited immediately - the guy came on to "Let Off Steam" about not getting a reminder and people end up having a go at him.

It must be great to be perfect and be able to pay every bill that hits your hall floor on time without ever forgetting one.


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

I'm a quick study Staples. From your sharp wit and incisive commentary I'd say you work in motor tax... was I talking to you myself last week? There's a whiff of the civil service about you


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## Staples (27 Aug 2010)

galleyslave said:


> I'm a quick study Staples. From your sharp wit and incisive commentary I'd say you work in motor tax... was I talking to you myself last week? There's a whiff of the civil service about you


 
I don't work for the motor tax office but curiously I'm in touch with them every year when they send me a renewal notice for my car.  Maybe that's where I pick up my sharp wit and incisive commentary.


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## galleyslave (27 Aug 2010)

at least somebody got a renewal notice...


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## Staples (30 Aug 2010)

You didn't get a renewal notice?

I read it that you didn't get a reminder (which is distinct from the initial renewal notice).

If you didn't get a renewal notice but only got the final reminder (and late) then I would agree that you've been shabbily treated.  The tax office was at fault and should have done better.

I take it all back.  Apologies for the insults and insinuations.


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## Complainer (30 Aug 2010)

Am I right in thinking that in NI, if you don't renew your motor tax, and you don't submit the form to scrap the car, you get an automatic fine after some weeks?


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## MandaC (30 Aug 2010)

*Motor Tax....*

I got 2 today.  One renewal notice for my current car and a final reminder for the car I changed in June.


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

gallyslave; I posted that I would email John Gormley, re a text reminder,and heres the reply.

*



			I have been asked by Mr. John Gormley, T.D. Minister for the
Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to thank you for your recent
letter concerning the reminder system used to alert persons that their
motor tax is due.

Your suggestion with regard to such reminders is amongst a range of
cost-saving measures currently being considered by the two Departments
concerned with the Online System.
		
Click to expand...

*Hope we see some improvement!


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## Firefly (22 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> Your suggestion with regard to such reminders is amongst a range of
> cost-saving measures currently being considered by the *two *Departments
> concerned with the Online System


 
Two departments!! Surely those looking at cost-cutting measures should start here.


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## Deas (22 Sep 2010)

I'll be honest here - I only ever pay my motor tax online.  AFAIK you need the renewal to do this in the first place as they give you a code.  I wouldn't even know where to pay it if not for this.


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## galleyslave (22 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> gallyslave; I posted that I would email John Gormley, re a text reminder,and heres the reply.
> 
> 
> Hope we see some improvement!



I think it likelier the cost saving will mean NO reminders!


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## cork (22 Sep 2010)

But where would you get the PIN number?


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

Here is what I have suggested;
(a)  motorists have the option ( at their own cost) to have the reminder sent to them,

(b) that they can be emailed the reminder and/or

(c) they can be sent a reminder by text..

I cannot begin to imagine the cost of notifying each and every motorist that their car tax is due.
When postage, envelopes,paper,ink,staff time etc is taken into account it must be huge,and as I have mentioned above this may have to be done twice!! therefore surely some saving would be made,and most importantly to the environment?

Obviously a pin number could be included in a text,or email..


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## galleyslave (22 Sep 2010)

an email would suit me fine.


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

galleyslave said:


> I think it likelier the cost saving will mean NO reminders!



If that did happen,at the very least ,we wouldn't be expecting reminders and therefore more likely to put it on our to do list,however as you know we do expect them and therefore wait until we get them to pay,and if we don't get them,we forget.

Also surely if we don't get reminders ,there is a saving to be made in terms of staff,postage etc,and maybe,though I doubt it,that money could be put to better use


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## galleyslave (22 Sep 2010)

can't argue with that I guess!


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

Firefly said:


> Two departments!! Surely those looking at cost-cutting measures should start here.


..Well said..


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## cork (22 Sep 2010)

galleyslave said:


> an email would suit me fine.



But I can't see them emailing something like a PIN number.

Maybe texting would be a better option.

Or giving our a plastic card with a permanent number.


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

Good idea re the card,wonder if we could use our pps numbers or the like,to make this easier to implement?


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## thedaras (22 Sep 2010)

Sorry posted same thing twice!


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## csirl (22 Sep 2010)

I've never figured out why they need to give you a PIN and why you need to register to renew your motortax. Why can you just go online and purchase a tax disc as a normal online transaction?

I suppose the reason given is that someone else could buy a tax disc for your car. But, why would that be a problem. The disc gets sent to the registered owner no matter who buys it and I'm sure most people would be happy to see a disc pop thru their letterbox that someone else has paid for. Anyway, I dont expect there will be too many cyber spooks out there who get a kick out of logging on and buying tax discs for other people


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## Howitzer (22 Sep 2010)

+1. It's been 9 months since I renewed mine and reading the thread I had convinced myself that it didn't exist and had to check the MotorTax.ie site to see it with my own eyes.

"What's this PIN everyone's referring to? Sure why would you need that, your reg no on it's own is sufficent. That makes no sense....."


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## Complainer (22 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> I've never figured out why they need to give you a PIN and why you need to register to renew your motortax. Why can you just go online and purchase a tax disc as a normal online transaction?


I'd guess that having the PIN allows them to present the registered address on screen to be validated by the user.


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## AlastairSC (23 Sep 2010)

I agree with the OP's comments about the system. If they offer reminders then obviously they should be timely or no purpose is served. I wonder if this is an isolated experience - do most people get reminders (if relevant) on time?

I also think, however, that the system should be overhauled to cut out all those paper-shuffling costs - just add a penalty if not paid within the tolerance period, like tolls or the NPPR. Much more likely to induce the desired behaviour.


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## DB74 (24 Sep 2010)

I don't see why, once you have logged in and registered for the first time, you can't change your pin to something which you can remenber and you can use the same pin to log in every time you need to renew your motor tax.

Also, there should be an option to receive renewal notices by e-mail instead of post


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## Complainer (25 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> I don't see why, once you have logged in and registered for the first time, you can't change your pin to something which you can remenber and you can use the same pin to log in every time you need to renew your motor tax.
> 
> Also, there should be an option to receive renewal notices by e-mail instead of post




Email would be a nice option, but I'm not sure it would ever replace the paper reminders for something like this. How frequently do people change email addresses? How often does email like this get flagged as junk?


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## thedaras (25 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Email would be a nice option, but I'm not sure it would ever replace the paper reminders for something like this. How frequently do people change email addresses? How often does email like this get flagged as junk?


I have the same email address for years and you can use the email facility to ensure it doesn't go into your junk mail,by simply adding the address to your contacts.


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## Complainer (25 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> I have the same email address for years and you can use the email facility to ensure it doesn't go into your junk mail,by simply adding the address to your contacts.



Me too, but you can't build public services around individual anecdotal experiences. Many people don't have PCs or Internet access. Many people do change email addresses frequently - often as they change jobs, or change ISPs or get overwhelmed with spam. The idea of adding someone to their contacts would blow the minds of many people.

I'm not saying that an email reminder would not be a nice idea. I'm just saying that it definitely won't suit everybody.


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## Howitzer (26 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Me too, but you can't build public services around individual anecdotal experiences. Many people don't have PCs or Internet access. Many people do change email addresses frequently - often as they change jobs, or change ISPs or get overwhelmed with spam. The idea of adding someone to their contacts would blow the minds of many people.
> 
> I'm not saying that an email reminder would not be a nice idea. I'm just saying that it definitely won't suit everybody.


You can choose to receive your bank statements, electricity bills, gas and visa bills by email.

I think you're trying to justify inertia.

In all the cases above you may receive some sort of discount based on using electronic means of communication. Why not do the same with motor tax? By all means if people wish to have Postman Pat delivering everything to them then you facilitate that but to say that public services are bound by the lowest common denominator is nonsense.


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## Complainer (26 Sep 2010)

Howitzer said:


> You can choose to receive your bank statements, electricity bills, gas and visa bills by email.


These are all monthly or bi-monthly - much more frequent than motor tax. The chances of the email address still being valid a year later is much lower. From my own experience, you get about 10%-20% 'bouncebacks' from any email mailing list after a year. And that's the ones you know about - there is another set where the email hosts don't respond with error messages, or the email accounts still exist, but just aren't being checked anymore.



Howitzer said:


> In all the cases above you may receive some sort of discount based on using electronic means of communication. Why not do the same with motor tax? By all means if people wish to have Postman Pat delivering everything to them then you facilitate that but to say that public services are bound by the lowest common denominator is nonsense.


I don't think of older people who don't know how to use computers or people who can't afford computers/broadband as 'lowest common denominators'. People shouldn't be penalised further for not having access to the web.


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## Howitzer (26 Sep 2010)

Giving a discount to those who take the environmentally friendly, more cost efficient means of receiving notifications is a means of penalising those who choose other forms of communication? How so?

Have you sent a letter of complaint to the energy regulator over Airtricity and Bord Gais's unethical work practices?


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## thedaras (26 Sep 2010)

As I mentioned in an earlier post, why not give people the choice, of email ,text or by post that would surely solve the problem at least until "Mr/Mrs/Ms inertia  "finds some reason to oppose this as well!!

And judging by some of the posts there will be many obstacles put in the way...


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## DB74 (26 Sep 2010)

I suggested that people have an _option_ to receive reminders by e-mail. It is then up to those individuals to ensure that they maintain their e-mail addresses/contacts/whatever.


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## thedaras (26 Sep 2010)

DB74, I couldn't agree with you more and in fact have emailed many politicians (opps maybe they no longer have those email addresses!! could explain why some of them haven't replied
But as you can see,when we come up with a logical ,fair solution ,some people put obstacles in the way of a very simple solution,its called saving their own necks!


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## Firefly (27 Sep 2010)

How about scrapping the whole idea of reminders altogether? 

If you own a car you have a legal responsibility to ensure it's taxed. I know my annual tax falls due in June. Not that hard to remember.


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

Because of the unions..there would be huge resistance to this as it would mean those PS workers whose job it is to send reminders would be null and void,though come to think of it ,like the Dlrcc bin workers there jobs would still have to be maintained!
So we would have even more PS workers with nothing to do and all day to do it...


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## Graham_07 (27 Sep 2010)

Cork county council do not send out reminders of driving licences that are due to expire. Easy to forget when it's for 10 years, but no major cost one would imagine for them to do. 

They do however send out notices of dog licences that are due to expire.


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> Because of the unions..there would be huge resistance to this as it would mean those PS workers whose job it is to send reminders would be null and void,though come to think of it ,like the Dlrcc bin workers there jobs would still have to be maintained!
> So we would have even more PS workers with nothing to do and all day to do it...


This is nonsense. There are no public sector workers with nothing to do all day - quite the reverse.

There is no union objection to sensible changes to public services. The DLRCC bin workers have all been reallocated to other posts in the council, to make up for some of the staff that have been lost and not replaced due to embargoes etc.

It might help if you stick to the facts.


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

Embargoes??
More than 1,600 full-time jobs have been filled in the public service despite the recruitment ban .


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> Embargoes??
> More than 1,600 full-time jobs have been filled in the public service despite the recruitment ban .


Nice attempt to shift the goalposts. The only posts that have been filled are ones that have the personal approval of the Minister for Finance. That is the terms of the embargo.

But do let me know whenever you'd like to get back on topic.


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

oh that's alright then! Once we have the approval of the minister sure we are grand,sorted..
This government approved a lot of things...which a lot of us are suffering the consequences of now...
For your information,we are discussing how to implement a fair reasonable system of giving people notice of when their car tax is due,and whether you like it or not the PS are responsible for that,so saying that a logical ,fair and reasonable system,would have the PS and the unions putting up major obstacles to that,is in fact not off topic..


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> For your information,we are discussing how to implement a fair reasonable system of giving people notice of when their car tax is due,and whether you like it or not the PS are responsible for that,so saying that a logical ,fair and reasonable system,would have the PS and the unions putting up major obstacles to that,is in fact not off topic..


Would you like to tell the class how you came up with the idea of 'unions putting up major obstacles'? Having you been watching those 1970's sitcoms again?


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Would you like to tell the class how you came up with the idea of 'unions putting up major obstacles'? Having you been watching those 1970's sitcoms again?



Exhibit A above ,of how some have to resort to this type of tactic of demeaning and childish replies..


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> Exhibit A above ,of how some have to resort to this type of tactic of demeaning and childish replies..



Is this more diversionary tactics? You're using my post of today to just your post from yesterday? Unless you are telepathic, it doesn't work that way.

I'm not a union official. I don't decide union responses to changes in technology. So using my comments to justify your expectations about unions is way off the mark.

I guess this just means that you had absolutely no basis for your claim that the unions would obstruct any change in approach.


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

Red herrings being thrown in a lot,a definite diversionary tactic.
Once again ..there is a simple solution to the issue of the tax reminders, these are to give people the choice.

This would mean you could decide to have a reminder by text, by email or by post.
I suggest that the person to whom chooses the reminder to be sent by post should be charged for it ,and also a charge for a text,email is obviously easier.

Obstacles ,which I have no doubt will be put forward, will be as ridiculous as ,people wont remember to check their emails, they will change their email address,they will change their mobile number etc etc,to the point where it is next to impossible to implement..of  course the unions will try to make sure their members jobs are saved,but this will lead to no change..

I hope at the very least that posters on AAM can now see how a very simple ,cost effective solution which is easier on the tax payer and much more efficient ,comes up against  ridiculous obstacles....


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

You seem to be a fan of the Charlie McCreevy (Decentralisation) and the Martin Cullen (eVoting) school of project management, which goes something like this;

1) Take one idea that looks superficially attractive
2) Don't look too deeply into it, because that might show up some flaws or problems
3) Bully or slag off anyone who points out any flaws in your great plan - there is no possibility that they can see something that you don't, because you're so special.
4) Breeze ahead and spend someone else's money - sure it doesn't really matter whether it works out or not.

I'd prefer that we do actually understand the obstacles involved, so that we can either make sensible decisions about whether to proceed, or we can work out alternatives to get around these obstacles. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

I'll make my 3rd and final attempt to see if there is any semblance of reality behind your claim of union obstruction - would you like to clarify if there is any particular reasoning (beyond your own personal predjudices, that is) for this claim, or should I just give up and let you continue to keep making things up?


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

I am amazed that my idea to deliver a more efficient solution should attract such a hostile response. But then again, in the real world, companies must constantly strive for competitive advantage by looking for ways to deliver better customer service, at less cost - this is the key to staying alive as a business.

Of course, in the sheltered sector - management (most of whom are unionised) and employees(all of whom are unionised) are absolutely resistant to challenging the status quo; because they have a copper-bottomed guarantee that they will not be made redundant, no matter how poorly they perform, or how badly customers are treated.

Let's get real, the most powerful vested interest groups in Ireland are public sector unions - and most of their energies are focused on defending the indefensible, regardless of the cost. I don't expect apologists for this approach to acknowledge reality - because reality threatens their cosy cartel.
One for all and all....no scratch that......all for the few!!

Now that complainers objections/red herrings/slagging off and childish replies have been dealt with,Please see my ideas and suggestions which are simple and straightforward, revenue generating and cost and time effective,but will still have many obstacles thrown their way...


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## Complainer (27 Sep 2010)

OK, so we've confirmed that 
a) There is no basis for your claim about union objections, and
b) you continue to avoid any sensible question about your proposals.

More half-assed solutions from the AAM armchair experts.


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## thedaras (27 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> OK, so we've confirmed that
> a) There is no basis for your claim about union objections, and
> b) you continue to avoid any sensible question about your proposals.
> 
> More half-assed solutions from the AAM armchair experts.



Charming!! I'm sure many posters would be fairly insulted by your aggressive tone and calling there solutions "half -assed".

I always find when people have to resort to name calling and slagging off and then insulting the posters and their solutions ,that they are usually unable to articulate themselves and resort to that type of post..


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## Complainer (28 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> I always find when people have to resort to name calling and slagging off and then insulting the posters and their solutions ,that they are usually unable to articulate themselves


Or else they've been articulating away, and they've come up against a poster who;
a) just ignores anything they like, and
b) refuses to justify their half-assed claims that have no basis in the real world.

Take your pick.


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## Latrade (28 Sep 2010)

Meh, mere tittle tattle again. 

I've thought of a genius solution to the reminder problem. If I were in charge, rather than posting reminders or emails, texts, whatever, I'd give people a relatively large disc that they can put on the windscreen of their cars with the expiry month/year printed in dirty great big letters. That way not only can they prove they've paid the tax, but every time they go to their car they can see when they have to pay. 

And no Bolshevik, Castroite, apparatchik, commie union members are going to stand in the way of that one.


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## Firefly (28 Sep 2010)

Latrade said:


> Meh, mere tittle tattle again.
> 
> I've thought of a genius solution to the reminder problem. If I were in charge, rather than posting reminders or emails, texts, whatever, I'd give people a relatively large disc that they can put on the windscreen of their cars with the expiry month/year printed in dirty great big letters. That way not only can they prove they've paid the tax, but every time they go to their car they can see when they have to pay.
> 
> And no Bolshevik, Castroite, apparatchik, commie union members are going to stand in the way of that one.


 
+1 (as per post 61). Get rid of reminders altogether - we're not children ffs.


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## csirl (28 Sep 2010)

Latrade said:


> Meh, mere tittle tattle again.
> 
> I've thought of a genius solution to the reminder problem. If I were in charge, rather than posting reminders or emails, texts, whatever, I'd give people a relatively large disc that they can put on the windscreen of their cars with the expiry month/year printed in dirty great big letters. That way not only can they prove they've paid the tax, but every time they go to their car they can see when they have to pay.
> 
> And no Bolshevik, Castroite, apparatchik, commie union members are going to stand in the way of that one.


 
+ 2

People have such a helpless nanny state mentality nowdays. Next they'll be asking the Government to send someone along to their house to hold their hands and bring them to the tax office.


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## thedaras (28 Sep 2010)

plus 3... however if we have to have a reminder lets at least do it cost effectively and efficiently...


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## Howitzer (28 Sep 2010)

The problem is that in order to pay online you have to have a PIN - which only comes with the reminder.

I think the privacy issue Complainer outlined is the reason why you can't just pay online but I've not seen any reasonable justification as to why people can't choose (their choice) to receive the reminder via electronic means.


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## csirl (28 Sep 2010)

Howitzer said:


> The problem is that in order to pay online you have to have a PIN - which only comes with the reminder.
> 
> I think the privacy issue Complainer outlined is the reason why you can't just pay online but I've not seen any reasonable justification as to why people can't choose (their choice) to receive the reminder via electronic means.


 

Think this is a red herring. You dont need a PIN number to buy a tax disc in a motor tax office, so why should you need one to pay online?


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## DB74 (28 Sep 2010)

People can change the pin to one of their own choosing when they first register. Then the pin wouldn't need to keep being reissued.

And if we assume (safely I think) that the same people who choose to receive the reminders by e-mail are the same ones who will be paying online then I don't see what the issue is.


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## cork (28 Sep 2010)

I agree. Even when you sell a car - you are sending off bits of paper.

We are living in 2010.

The whole motor tax thing is old fashioned and inefficent.


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## Howitzer (28 Sep 2010)

Testify!


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## Complainer (28 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> Think this is a red herring. You dont need a PIN number to buy a tax disc in a motor tax office, so why should you need one to pay online?


Because the name and address of the registered owner aren't displayed in the motor tax office.



Latrade said:


> I've thought of a genius solution to the reminder problem. If I were in charge, rather than posting reminders or emails, texts, whatever, I'd give people a relatively large disc that they can put on the windscreen of their cars with the expiry month/year printed in dirty great big letters. That way not only can they prove they've paid the tax, but every time they go to their car they can see when they have to pay.
> 
> And no Bolshevik, Castroite, apparatchik, commie union members are going to stand in the way of that one.



I really think this is yet another example of AAM's armchair experts putting theory ahead of practice. The most likely outcome of this approach is (in my non-expert opinion) reduced income to Govt (as people just don't bother to renew), Gardai and Courts getting clogged up with fines, callers on Joe Duffy (as happened already this week) blaming the terrible system for for putting people in prison etc etc. It's a lose, lose situation.

In theory, perhaps people shouldn't need reminders. I'd suggest the practice would be fairly different.


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## micheller (28 Sep 2010)

I think revenue did a great job of automating their services online over the last few years.

Why not continue to provide reminders for the next year or two with large bold info stating that paper reminders will be cancelled from x date. Log onto motortax.ie to setup a self service account? You could even have access to account top ups like eflow etc.
Implementation and change management are obviously very important for issues like this, but with a similar campaign to revenue it could get up and running over a decent period of time?


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## thedaras (28 Sep 2010)

I agree, and imagine we can even do our banking on-line,our shopping on-line,we can pay our bills on-line,we can even get our insurance on-line. Mad Ted,mad..


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## thedaras (28 Sep 2010)

Or we could be really radical and do this.... follow the 'polluter pays' principle...and add the tax to petrol/diesel costs..


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## csirl (29 Sep 2010)

thedaras said:


> Or we could be really radical and do this.... follow the 'polluter pays' principle...and add the tax to petrol/diesel costs..


 
Agree with this.




> Because the name and address of the registered owner aren't displayed in the motor tax office.


 
Still dont get it. No need for name and address of registered owner to be displayed online either. All you need is a system where you simply put in the registration number, the tax amount and pay by credit card. Disc is sent to registered owners address regardless of who pays.


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## Complainer (29 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> No need for name and address of registered owner to be displayed online either. All you need is a system where you simply put in the registration number, the tax amount and pay by credit card. Disc is sent to registered owners address regardless of who pays.


Then you miss the opportunity to get people to confirm and (more importantly) update their registered address.


thedaras said:


> Or we could be really radical and do this.... follow the 'polluter pays' principle...and add the tax to petrol/diesel costs..


Brilliant idea - and you could do the same for basic 3rd party insurance costs, so no more uninsured drivers. I think they do this in Oz.


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## Latrade (30 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> I really think this is yet another example of AAM's armchair experts putting theory ahead of practice.


 
I was aiming more for another example of sarcasm, but I'll take being referred to as an expert as long as I get to pick the armchair.


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## Complainer (30 Sep 2010)

Latrade said:


> I was aiming more for another example of sarcasm, but I'll take being referred to as an expert as long as I get to pick the armchair.


Apologies - it went way over my head obviously. And I guess it went over the heads of the '+x' fans too.


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