# Public service efficiency



## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2020)

Virtually any private sector organisation which I ring requires me to listen to long winded messages and press multiple buttons which often send me back to the starting menu.  When I eventually make the right choice, I have to listen to "We are very busy now, but your call is important to us..." So important that they then tell you that you can probably get an answer quicker on their website. 

So this morning I wanted to ring the Department Education about my mother's pension.  I dreaded the time wasting it would involve. I googled the number and found this which was a very good start 

*Phone:*


Primary Teachers: (090) 648 4043 / 4044
Post Primary Teachers: (090) 648 4161
Non Teaching Staff: (090) 648 4136
Retired Personnel: (090) 648 3995
So I didn't have to ring a general number and then pick an option. Why do more companies not do this?  For example, an insurance company could have one number for new business, another for existing policies and a third for claims. 

I rang the number and it was answered by a real person immediately who answered my question. 

Brendan


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## joer (23 Sep 2020)

If only insurance companies, phone companies, banks etc followed suit look how much time it would save and cut out all the bull that no one wants to hear but have to listen to.


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## Peanuts20 (23 Sep 2020)

it's simple, it cheaper to put an IVR at the front of a call response then to have 4 or 5 different numbers out there. its easier from a marketing perspective and it also means people will not ring one number and then need to be transferred. The whole "your call is important to me " is a cost and resourcing balancing  issue for private companies who are trying to make a profit. Some do it better then others.


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2020)

Most people would call the correct number so transferring would not be a big problem.

And you could have a message 

"Thank you for calling Aviva. This is the number for new customers. If you are an existing customer, please dial 1 for claims, and 2 for renewals" 

Brendan


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## Seagull (23 Sep 2020)

Even worse are the ones where you know exactly which selections you need to make, but there's no way of bypassing the whole spiel that you really don't care about.


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## Purple (23 Sep 2020)

I have found Social Welfare and Revenue excellent. Foreign Affairs were dreadful when I contacted them but that was a good few years ago.


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## joer (23 Sep 2020)

Revenue are usually pretty good alright. My wife was trying to get Aviva the other evening and was very cheesed off by the time she got to talk to someone. Sky , Eir are two more who I do have to ring from time to time and I have to just put it on speaker and wait and wait and wait. 
So much for been communication companies....


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## Leo (23 Sep 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Most people would call the correct number so transferring would not be a big problem.
> 
> And you could have a message
> 
> "Thank you for calling Aviva. This is the number for new customers. If you are an existing customer, please dial 1 for claims, and 2 for renewals"



If I looked up and rang the correct number, it would annoy me to have to wait while I listened to that message 

As peanut's said above though, it's simply cheaper to front even a small business with an IVR to filter and prioritise calls. Cloud solutions for low volume start from less than €5 a month. If you're a business that needs to read out disclaimers or terms, you'll save that money in a call or two. They offer features like prioritising sales over existing customers when busy, automatically routing high-value customers to more experienced agents, and perhaps as importantly for some businesses, they offer performance measurement of staff and metrics that senior managers love!


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2020)

Leo said:


> it's simply cheaper to front even a small business with an IVR to filter and prioritise calls.



But it's not just about cost.  Providing a good service and a prompt answer will encourage customers to stay.

Brendan


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## Leo (24 Sep 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But it's not just about cost.  Providing a good service and a prompt answer will encourage customers to stay.



Unfortunately service providers are aware many will put up with poor service to save themselves the hassle of switching! They measure customer inertia too, and as a market, the evidence suggests the majority favour lower price over service reputations.


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## Firefly (24 Sep 2020)

For the companies that offer it, I usually find the online chat works well.


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## Peanuts20 (24 Sep 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Most people would call the correct number so transferring would not be a big problem.
> 
> Brendan



Many will, but many won't as well, especially if the first number isn't answered for whatever reason. I've ran contact desks and you should never underestimate the stupidity of people. 

Online chat I find is very good for a lot of general queries and more and more companies are moving towards that. An agent can deal with 3-5 cases at any one time instead of just one on the phone and if you really want to do it right, allow a handoff to phone if the query is not being resolved. Stick a good chat bot on there and it will reduce human interaction even further and if done right, the customer won't notice.


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## Purple (24 Sep 2020)

I will happily pay extra for service providers who answer the phone.


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## joer (24 Sep 2020)

Yes, but they will all answer the phone , the problem is that it could take a very long time like half an hour if you are very lucky. It has often taken three quarters of an hour .


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## Purple (24 Sep 2020)

joer said:


> Yes, but they will all answer the phone , the problem is that it could take a very long time like half an hour if you are very lucky. It has often taken three quarters of an hour .


Eir don't answer the phone. They don't even do webchat at the moment.


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## joe sod (24 Sep 2020)

Peanuts20 said:


> Stick a good chat bot on there and it will reduce human interaction even further and if done right, the customer won't notice.


thats a good one alright, humans can be like sheep and if you can get away with them not noticing then so be it. Like birds being frightened away from an artificial hawk, it works once the birds don't know.


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## joer (24 Sep 2020)

Oh they answer the phone alright . I ring them every year  before my bundle allowance is up to renegotiate my contract. I wait and wait but do get an answer. It is usually worth it for a year .


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## joer (24 Sep 2020)

It seems that a lot of the employees are given a script and this is what they work from no matter what your query is about. When I had a phone line problem I could test to see if the fault was internal or external myself . If it was internal I would fix it myself . But if it was external i would not have the means to but I would  still be asked to plug out the phone so they could test the line etc. It was pointless telling them that I worked for them and new  that the fault was external so someone would have to come out . They just have to work off their script.


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## mtk (24 Sep 2020)

rang st vincent's outpatients appointmenst today after 10
once i was told to ring back later ..what a message to have!
the 2nd and 3rd time i was just left holding!


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## joer (24 Sep 2020)

That is not good enough for a hospital.


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## mtk (24 Sep 2020)

joer said:


> That is not good enough for a hospital.


And they complain when people don’t turn up for appointments!


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## Sue Ellen (26 Sep 2020)

Covid has made the situation a lot worse with staff working from home.  Rang Currys for an elderly friend who finds it very hard to deal with Call Centres.  Average wait time was 1 hour!


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## joer (27 Sep 2020)

It seems to be like that with most companies nowadays though . Some companies say "we are here 24 hours a day if you have a problem". That,s alright until you try to contact them with a problem..


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## Purple (28 Sep 2020)

mtk said:


> rang st vincent's outpatients appointmenst today after 10
> once i was told to ring back later ..what a message to have!
> the 2nd and 3rd time i was just left holding!


How dare you criticise front line staff! Heroes, that what they are, heroes!!! 
What they need is a pay rise. That's why they aren't answering their phone; they aren't getting paid enough.


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## ClubMan (2 Oct 2020)

Sue Ellen said:


> Covid has made the situation a lot worse with staff working from home.  Rang Currys for an elderly friend who finds it very hard to deal with Call Centres.  Average wait time was 1 hour!


And yet companies continue to charge customers full whack so customers are entitled to expect reasonable/normal service.

My pet hate right now is Virgin Media as a result of which I am doing everything that I can to ditch them and use a different broadband service provider.

You call 1908 and can be on hold for ages. The repeating message tells you all the great stuff that you can do online and via their WhatsApp support channel. So you put the phone down after 30+ minutes and try WhatsApp. "Oh, you want to change your package? You can only do that by calling 1908 and speaking to our Loyalty Department! Sorry! Bye bye!". Of course there's no option on 1908 for Loyalty Department...

I eventually got through to somebody today after only 30 mins on hold only for them to tell me that the 30 day broadband package was dropped today and they only have 12 month contract packages now. I could not get onto them at any point earlier in the week to switch to that so their disastrous customer support has cost me. I asked her to transfer me to the complaints department. She put me on hold and I went back into the regular queue. After another 20 mins holding I gave up.

Instead I used their online complaint form. It promises to text you a case number after you submit your complaint but it doesn't so you have no record of the complaint reference.

The only option left seems to be to write a letter to them.

Absolute joke of a customer service operation...


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## cremeegg (5 Oct 2020)

ClubMan said:


> My pet hate right now is Virgin Media as a result of which I am doing everything that I can to ditch them and use a different broadband service provider.



Be careful, be very very careful.






						Is eir the worst company in Ireland for customer service?
					

Anyone have suggestions?  Letters unacknowledged No contact form on website Webchat disabled Facebook messaging unresponsive On hold for a full hour on phone  Short of driving to City West and holding up a placard (and I'm tempted), has anyone got any ideas?



					askaboutmoney.com
				




I cant understand how that question has nearly 100 posts, because there is a simple one word answer.


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## Purple (6 Oct 2020)

Sky have the best customer service. Unfortunately they use the Eir network so if you have a technical problem it is passed from Sky to BT, from whom Sky bought the Broadband contract, to Eir and then on to KN Services who actually fix the problem. It is a disaster if anything goes wrong as Sky have the same problem communicating with Eir as everyone else.


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## Peanuts20 (6 Oct 2020)

On virgin, ask to be escalated and passed to their customer loyalty team. I've always got a deal done once I've spoken to their Irish contact centre. Their people in India have no discretion and to be brutal about it, are not paid to think but just spout what is on their call sheets


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## ClubMan (6 Oct 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Be careful, be very very careful.


That's exactly what I'm being by attempting to get onto an open ended VM contract while I look at evaluating other non contract broadband options (not that many available admittedly though).


Peanuts20 said:


> On virgin, ask to be escalated and passed to their customer loyalty team. I've always got a deal done once I've spoken to their Irish contact centre. Their people in India have no discretion and to be brutal about it, are not paid to think but just spout what is on their call sheets


Doesn't work in my experience. You just spend inordinate amounts of time on hold. And changes to packages cannot be done online or via WhatsApp (I have no idea where the WhatsApp people - or bots? - are located).

Anyway - just to redress the balance or my earlier grumpy post and give some credit to VM, I made a complaint via the website complaint form (although it never sent me any confirmation/case number by text) and they got back to me today and offered to put me on the "old" (no longer available) €59 p.m. for 30 day contract 250Mbps broadband + home phone package from the end of this month so that's all that I wanted in the first place and is now sorted.

I also clarified that you need to be away from VM for at least 90 days/3 months to be classed as a new customer. I presume that you can alternatively get another adult at the same address to act as a new occupier and a new customer to get the preferential new customer packages/deals? But that's not an option for me.

If eir customer support are worse than VM's then they must be really bad!


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## Purple (6 Oct 2020)

ClubMan said:


> If eir customer support are worse than VM's then they must be really bad!


VM are like Gods in comparison, Gods.


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## joer (6 Oct 2020)

It takes quite a while to get through to Sky too though.


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## roker (16 Oct 2020)

Seagull said:


> Even worse are the ones where you know exactly which selections you need to make, but there's no way of bypassing the whole spiel that you really don't care about.


and you have to listen to English and Irish message before you select


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## mtk (23 Oct 2020)

Just  spent half an hour on hold on 1908 to VM as now out of contract . v frustrating .  any suggestions on how to get through as I'll take any reasonable deal ??


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## joer (23 Oct 2020)

I dont know anything about VM but they might have a chat service and if they are like many others.....good luck


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## Sue Ellen (23 Oct 2020)

mtk said:


> Just  spent half an hour on hold on 1908 to VM as now out of contract . v frustrating .  any suggestions on how to get through as I'll take any reasonable deal ??





joer said:


> I dont know anything about VM but they might have a chat service and if they are like many others.....good luck



I have found the VM chat service to be totally useless when it comes to trying to get through to the Loyalty Team who appear to be working from home and making the service much slower.

Early in the morning is probably a better option but if it were me I would use Clubman's option above and make a complaint via the website complaint form  Hopefully they will get back to you through this method.


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## joer (23 Oct 2020)

When I ring Eir, my provider, I find early in the morning or late in the evening are bad times. Mid morning or mid afternoon is slightly better but pot luck. I dont have to ring until Jan 21 so I have time to compose and brace myself for the usual wait. I am usually able to get a good enough deal so it suits me to stay with them.


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## SPC100 (14 Nov 2020)

Maybe the companies should publish real time call wait times, and historical summaries, so us impatient folks know when best to ring.


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## Leper (14 Nov 2020)

We all have our ideas of how these companies do not work efficiently regarding customer service. To me it's obvious that Call Centres sorry Modern Customer Contact Centres of Excellence do not work. 

Is there anybody out there who work or worked in these Customer Contact Centres of Excellence can supply any light from inside these places?


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## mtk (16 Nov 2020)

mtk said:


> Just  spent half an hour on hold on 1908 to VM as now out of contract . v frustrating .  any suggestions on how to get through as I'll take any reasonable deal ??



took cancellation option this time and was answered only 5 minutes after their estimated waiting time of 20! was able to get small discount so its done for another year( -15 for 6 months)


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## Deiseblue (16 Nov 2020)

10 friends , including myself , in a WhatsApp group who went to school together in Waterford and were born within months of each other and all coming up to age 66 and lucky enough to benefit from the contributory OAP and free travel in addition to occupational pensions and of course being spared the increase in pension age to 67 have been hugely impressed by the efficiency of the Department of Social Protection in Sligo and the respective Intreo offices we dealt with.
The Department in Sligo proactively wrote to me advising that they noted that I was approaching 66 enclosing a form to be completed in order to claim the OAP , the following day I received a letter from my Intreo office confirming free travel in the Republic and on request forwarded the necessary form to request free travel in Northern Ireland.
All my friends have confirmed that they met with the same levels of service and efficiency and thankfully we have all received confirmation that , if spared , we will receive the contributory OAP.


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## Peanuts20 (16 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> We all have our ideas of how these companies do not work efficiently regarding customer service. To me it's obvious that Call Centres sorry Modern Customer Contact Centres of Excellence do not work.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who work or worked in these Customer Contact Centres of Excellence can supply any light from inside these places?



they are almost always outsourced to a company who has contractual SLA's to meet. As long as they are dealing with 99% (or whatever the target is) the other 1% don't matter.
Because they are outsourced, there is no scope for discretion. The agents are not paid to think but to stick to process
Massive staff turnover because they don't pay much in many cases and people see them as a first job or holding role before they move on
You pay peanuts................

However the biggest issue I see is a lack of overall ownership on a problem and in fairness to the contact centres, if the staff in the field are useless or you don't have enough of them, what the agent commits to might not be delivered


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## Purple (16 Nov 2020)

Peanuts20 said:


> However the biggest issue I see is a lack of overall ownership on a problem and in fairness to the contact centres, if the staff in the field are useless or you don't have enough of them, what the agent commits to might not be delivered


And that's why there's no point in getting angry with the poor sod that answers your call.


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## Leper (16 Nov 2020)

Well said Peanuts. I have used my former union sources to ask how do these Call Centres actually survive. I hear from people who are working or have worked in such places and the following is the normal situation:-
(i) Nearly all staff are badly trained.
(ii) The Team Coaches/Team Leaders are on a small amount more than the operator. Most of them are ill trained too.
(iii) The pay for operators and Team Coaches/Team Leaders is little above the lowest minimum wage.
(iv) There is an electronic "bleep" that sounds louder and faster depending on the amount of calls waiting.
(v) Staff Reviews are a joke and most fail whatever review is on hands.
(vi) Team Leaders shout to take calls and the "resolution" will be later. Most "resolutions" never happen.
(vii) Like Peanuts said above staff are transient and run out of such places as soon as anything else comes up.
(viii) The better Call Centre Operators are moved to actual shops e.g. eir shop.
(ix) Most operators cannot afford union membership.
(x) If they become union members their presence is frowned upon.
(xi) The staff have their supervisors/management listening into their calls nearly every minute of the day.
(xii) Breaks including toilet breaks are anything but personal and are timed.
(xiii) There is an employee of the month award which is nearly in the Tommy Cooper book of jokes.
(xiv) There are incentive schemes to make people work harder, but only one member of staff will get that award. There are no supplementary awards.
(xv) There is weekend work, Sunday work, Saturday Work, lots of unsocial hours, Bank Holiday duty and the reward is minimal.
(xvi) Dreadful abuse is showered on the operators by people ringing in. Crying and walk aways from duty are frequent.

I would be more comfortable if some call centre employee would agree or disagree with me or even add their own thoughts.


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## Leo (17 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> The staff have their supervisors/management listening into their calls nearly every minute of the day.



Wow, they must have a lot of managers!!!


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## Purple (17 Nov 2020)

Leo said:


> Wow, they must have a lot of managers!!!


One for each of them, I assume.


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## Leper (17 Nov 2020)

I was naive enough to think that some call centre worker would come on here and comment. Instead we have Cynic 1 and Cynic 2 (make up your own mind as to who is in pole position).

The penny just dropped:- The call centre workers know what forum to ignore.


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## Purple (17 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> I was naive enough to think that some call centre worker would come on here and comment. Instead we have Cynic 1 and Cynic 2 (make up your own mind as to who is in pole position).
> 
> The penny just dropped:- The call centre workers know what forum to ignore.


That's quite hurtful Leper.


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## Leper (17 Nov 2020)

Purple said:


> That's quite hurtful Leper.


I know it will be difficult for you with all that Purple Haze, but, I'm sure you'll pull through the hurt with the support of the Lion King.


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## Purple (17 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> I know it will be difficult for you with all that Purple Haze, but, I'm sure you'll pull through the hurt with the support of the Lion King.


I hope you're right. You know me, I'm a delicate flower.


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## Peanuts20 (18 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> Well said Peanuts. I have used my former union sources to ask how do these Call Centres actually survive. I hear from people who are working or have worked in such places and the following is the normal situation:-
> (i) Nearly all staff are badly trained.
> (ii) The Team Coaches/Team Leaders are on a small amount more than the operator. Most of them are ill trained too.
> (iii) The pay for operators and Team Coaches/Team Leaders is little above the lowest minimum wage.
> ...



I've never heard of the beep but having screens giving visability of call status on the walls is quite common. Likewise timed breaks but then that is no different then if you work in a shop. That's just management of staff. Union membership is irrelevant since most companies simply won't engage with the unions anyway in this industry. As for the hours, well that is what we as the general public expect, "always on" services. We can't complain about the hours these staff work if we want to call during those times and indeed for many staff, that level of flexibility suits, especially for part timers

The bigger issues for me is pay, training, the fact that supervisors and managers actually don't listen to calls and are never available so no effective escalation and the fact that many call centres are really "catch and dispatch." Field the call, log the case and shove it on to parts of the business that can't, won't or are unable to resolve it.


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## Leper (18 Nov 2020)

I cannot argue with much of what Peanuts20 said. He made one overriding point "Union memberships irrelevant since most companies simply won't engage with the unions anyway in this industry."  I don't know what Call Centre senior management is afraid of, but Peanuts20 sentence says it all. The Call Centre operator is at their mercy.

Staff Training:- Another area where trainees are denigrated having to sing songs live and loud in front of many other trainees and training officers. Supposedly, this is to increase your confidence. When you make it onto the work area you are trained with all this type of irrelevant methods and given little knowledge of the actual work you will be doing. Therefore, you're defeated before you start. 

Staff Working Hours:- It's nearly impossible to get through to say Eir call centres within any daytime hours. Consequently, from their failure to answer your call you're facilitating them by ringing during the quieter unsocial hours. 

Quality of Performance:- You're ill trained, handicapped by the enormous amount of calls where quantity not quality is of the essence, you've no safe tenure, no union input, you're being verbally abused nearly every day and have team leaders that are as ill trained as you. 

We can read on this thread alone that Call Centres do not work. All the experience listed by me have been given to me by people who worked in such places.


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## Peanuts20 (19 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> We can read on this thread alone that Call Centres do not work. All the experience listed by me have been given to me by people who worked in such places.



Call centres do work when they are done right. First Direct in the UK when it started up in the 90s as a telephone only bank was an example of that. In fairness, anytime I've ever had to contact my own bank over here (Ulster for the record) I've never had an issue getting through or getting an issue closed out. 

What doesn't work is off-shoring to foreign climes unless it is for something like proper technical support. I've no time for all the "lovey dovey" training rubbish either, train them how to do things right and they'll get the confidence that way. 

Webchat can be good also for basic queries and a competent agent can manage 3 or 4 discussions at a time making them more efficient

Lastly, a contact centre won't work unless a company invests in fixing it's core issues. If Eir, for example, got their installation and repair side of things working better, calls would naturally drop, that would take the pressure off the call centre and allow them to train and recruit and invest for the future


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## Leper (19 Nov 2020)

I'm glad call centres for our banks are performing well. The main reason is that if they don't customers will run from them like you'd run from a leper. 

But, my experience with call centres in the past year Vodafone, Eir, That Crowd who answer Property Tax queries, all proved dreadful. The Property Tax Crowd although I provided them with a Reference Number couldn't track my payment of several hundred euro online. As usual I always ask for the name of the person with which I am dealing. Despite several promises they did not recontact me as promised. 

Vodafone:- Not as bad as Eir on waiting. However, there it stops. After contact they are just as incompetent as Eir. Again they failed to recontact me in a dispute of €30.

Eir:- Positively the worst. You could be diagnosed and treated with serious illness while waiting for first contact, the same for the 2nd contact and again for the 3rd contact. 

In my experience of contact, I was let down 100% by each of the call centres listed in this post.


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## Leo (19 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> We can read on this thread alone that Call Centres do not work.



And you call me cynical!


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## Purple (19 Nov 2020)

Leper said:


> We can read on this thread alone that Call Centres do not work.


I find Sky customer service excellent.


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## gianni (20 Nov 2020)

I have been dealing with Pure Telecom customer service of late. They've been very good...so far...


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