# Non resident landlord queries



## AKA (10 Feb 2012)

Hi,  

I'm renting out my house at the beginning of March as I move to a job in Europe.  I've searched the forums but a few queries remain:

1. Bank account?
I will get a family member to be an agent and arrange a PPS number.  Should the rent be paid into my bank account, their bank account or should I set up a separate bank account?

2. Tax return - PPS number?
I will get an accountant to do the tax return.  Is the tax return filed in my name or my family member's name?  And if so what PPS number is used for the tax return?

3. When does house become NPPR - NPPR due this year?
If I rent the house out on Mar 1st am I liable for the NPPR charge before Mar 31st?  Does a house change to NPPR the day you move out or is there some time period for which it remains your PPR?  (I suspect this only applies if you sell the house and remain in Ireland.)  Also, if I wait to Apr 1st I suspect I wouldn't be liable for the NPPR fee.  

Thanks in advance


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## Bronte (10 Feb 2012)

As a landlord who lives abroad my advice is

1. All monies to your account, it should be an account that is specifically for rent.  You will have to decide how your agent handles the deposit and costs for repairs, how you will pay them.  And most importantly who registers with the PRTB. 

2.  You can do your tax returns under your own PPS number.  Your accountant should be helpful in this regard, and you are on the right track hiring an accountant.  

3. Can't reminder the liability date for NPPR offhand, but that is the key date the liability date. Don't forget there is the new property tax as well. 

Strickly speaking from a revenue point of view the tenant's should deduct tax from the rent, but it's not a point revenue enforce, particularly with tax complaint landlords.


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## NANA01 (10 Feb 2012)

Household charge 100 euros is due before 31/3/2012.  You will be liable for NPPR if it is not your principal dwelling after March but is payable up to end of June 2012.

Remember to register with PRTB.  Definately have someone reliable and that knows the ropes to look after it if you are away.  Renting your house is not easy and can be a severe headache if not properly managed.  Get someone (family even) that you can depend on, if this costs you money it will be worth it in the long run.

God luck and lucky you to be getting away.


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## AKA (11 Feb 2012)

*Non resident landlord - who registers with PRTB - agent or me?*

Thanks Bronte, Nana01.

I have a letting agent who will let out and manage the property. The cost is more reasonable than forum posts suggest.  My family member will only act as an agent for tax purposes.  Using a letting company for the agent for tax purposes does not seem to be advised as there have been reported issues of non payment of tax and forwarding on of rent.

In terms of using the family member as an agent I want to keep this as simple as possible for the family member by doing all the paperwork myself in conjunction with the letting agent / accountant.

3 more clarifications:

1. I thought I would have to register with the PRTB using my PPS number?  I didn't think my family member agent would have to be registered with the PRTB (using this new PPS number).  The letting agent will handle the paperwork but I need to be able to explain it to my family member in advance.

2. How long does it take to get the PPS number?  I didn't think I would need it for the tenants to sign the lease and to register with the PRTB e.g. having the new PPS a week or two after they starting renting would not matter.

3. So I set up a second bank account in my name and the tenants pay the rent into this account?  If this is the case, I really don't see the need for the resident agent for tax purposes if people are tax compliant.  Unnecessary confusion and hassle for family members.  However, I want to be fully tax compliant so will do as required.

Thanks


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## T McGibney (11 Feb 2012)

Some very good questions there. I think that as you're going to engage an accountant here to handle returns when you're away, you should now get proper advice from them now on the registration issues as they can get complicated and Revenue can treat similar cases differently depending on who you are dealing with. 

A few random points:
1. Definitely use your own PPSN for PRTB registration. Depending on your Revenue district, they may even decide not to allocate a fresh PPSN to your agent, and/or take months to do so. In any  case, I would have doubts about the long-term legal standing of an agent PPSN, as Revenue seem able to cancel and issue these at will.

2. You definitely need to have a 'collection agent' in place as the alternative of having tenants deduct and remit tax is far too risky. What happens if they fail to pay it to Revenue or Revenue temporarily 'lose' or misallocate a payment?

3. There is no need to set up a new bank account if you have an existing bank account that is dormant or 'quiet'. Once a close track is kept of rental income and expenditure, then you should be grand.

Best of luck with it.


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## T McGibney (11 Feb 2012)

> Strickly speaking from a revenue point of view the tenant's should deduct tax from the rent,


Hi B

I don't know who told you this, but appointing a 'collection agent' enables the landlord to be fully tax compliant and doing so is no less 'legal' than depending on the tenant to deduct and remit tax. In any event the legal basis for the tenant deducting tax is highly questionable since the 1998 Ombudsman's report on the topic.


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## Bronte (13 Feb 2012)

Not sure what you're referring to in the Ombudsman's report (do you have a link to that) but revenue are clear that tenant's should deduct tax (unless there is an agent - sorry if I was unclear on that).  But revenue do not enforce the rule.  

Personally I wouldn't want my agents dealing with my tax, etc it is an unnecessary complication.


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## T McGibney (13 Feb 2012)

Google should have ready links to the Ombudsman's report.

There is absolutely no need to have one's letting agent acting also as collection agent -far better to have a friend or family member nominated. (Its only an 'honorary title' anyway). That said, either option is far wiser than the unappetising alternatives of involving the tenant in tax deduction/remittance, or ignoring the law altogether.


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## stephen1381 (13 Feb 2012)

Does anyone know how much it would be to hire an accountant to do tax return on an investment property. 

I'm also a landlord living abroad so its a bit of a pain to do this when abroad.


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## AKA (13 Feb 2012)

*Tax return*

For a friend living in Ireland who is doing some self employed work it is less than 300 euros and you write this off as an expense.


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## AKA (13 Mar 2012)

*second PPS number for agent of non resident landlord*

Getting to the bottom of this.  A few queries remain and I thought I'd post as it might be helpful for others too.

Q: The PRTB registration form asks if there is an authorised agent.  So I guess this is where the family member's details go?

Q: So where do I register my family member for the new PPS number? In my tax district or theirs?

I will have to register for tax with revenue. My accountant will send on  the form.  The Irish tax return in done in my name under my PPS number.

Q: Is a second tax return required against this new PPS number for the authorised agent?

Thanks


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