# Is it Paddy's turn to be an idiot?



## elacsaplau (5 Feb 2020)

In recent years, we have watched aghast & bemused as the Brits voted for Brexit & Boris and the Yanks for Trump. Is it now Paddy's turn to be an idiot and allow the Sinners to get their filthy hands on the tiller? [The new low has to be Paul Quinn debacle - all politicians can be dodgy sometimes - but these guys are really off the scale ugly.]


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## cremeegg (6 Feb 2020)

What’s new about the Paul Quinn story. He was murdered in 2007. Conor Murphy’s remarks that have caused so much comment were made in 2007.


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## odyssey06 (6 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> What’s new about the Paul Quinn story. He was murdered in 2007. Conor Murphy’s remarks that have caused so much comment were made in 2007.



So were Fianna Fail's bad economic decisions and we hammer them about those.


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## EmmDee (6 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> What’s new about the Paul Quinn story. He was murdered in 2007. Conor Murphy’s remarks that have caused so much comment were made in 2007.



Yeah but it was only Monday or Tuesday of this week when Mary Lou was denying that Conor Murphy said anything. And they were still refusing to apologise or even to acnowledge there was something to apologise for.


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## Firefly (6 Feb 2020)

Sinn Fein are putting on a great show as usual in the run up to the election, by promising what cannot be delivered. But you really only have to scratch the surface to see what lurks beneath.

I hope to God they are nowhere near being in the mix for the next government.


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## Firefly (6 Feb 2020)

Important article by Dan O'Brien in today's Indo. Anyone even contemplating voting for SF should read & digest this article. Be very careful what you wish for....


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## joe sod (6 Feb 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> Is it now Paddy's turn to be an idiot



No it will be Oisin and Caoimhe's turn, Paddy wont be voting for them he is too long in the tooth for that.


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## Duke of Marmalade (6 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> What’s new about the Paul Quinn story. He was murdered in 2007. Conor Murphy’s remarks that have caused so much comment were made in 2007.


The fuss is (understandably) all about the hurt caused to PQ's family.  But that is missing the main point.  SF were seeking to justify IRA barbaric vigilante justice by telling the lies about PQ.  Even if PQ was into smuggling,  society cannot possibly tolerate a private paramilitary force taking brutal justice into its own hands.  This, together with opposition to the Special Criminal court emphasise for anyone who is in any doubt that SF/IRA is the correct description of this party.


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## elacsaplau (7 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> What’s new about the Paul Quinn story. He was murdered in 2007. Conor Murphy’s remarks that have caused so much comment were made in 2007.



Well cremeegg - any oul budge in your position?!


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> Well cremeegg - any oul budge in your position?!


The sad part is the people who think some people have budged are falling into a trap, I have being watching how SF handled the Issue right up until midnight they were on damage repair footing,

If they read post no 9 they will say it worked,

For the record in my opinion the long time respected poster has nothing to budge about, I ask myself the same Question Where has FF/FG and others being since 2007

In fact you could see in the deputy leaders debate last night FF/FG did not like the question being asked because it gave SF a chance to mend there fences before election day,


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> For the record in my opinion the long time respected poster has nothing to budge about, I ask myself the same Question Where has FF/FG and others being since 2007
> 
> ... to mend *there *fences...


I agree that the boul' _cremeegg _is a long time respected poster.  I am impressed that you too have come to that conclusion after 2 months' membership.

Congrats!  Only one mispelt "there" in the whole post, albeit this amounted to a 100% error rate.
You actually watched the Championship debate!?  Jayz, I found the Premiership debate boring towards the end (too long).  I wasn't going to bore myself to death watching the Championship.


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> I agree that the boul' _cremeegg _is a long time respected poster.  I am impressed that you too have come to that conclusion after 2 months' membership.
> 
> Congrats!  Only one mispelt "there" in the whole post, albeit this amounted to a 100% error rate.
> You actually watched the Championship debate!?  Jayz, I found the Premiership debate boring towards the end (too long).  I wasn't going to bore myself to death watching the Championship.


(Theres)many a true work spoken in jest
O
I love your minders Did you see my message on (Humer does not transfer )before it got deleated,


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## Deiseblue (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> I agree that the boul' _cremeegg _is a long time respected poster.  I am impressed that you too have come to that conclusion after 2 months' membership.
> 
> Congrats!  Only one mispelt "there" in the whole post, albeit this amounted to a 100% error rate.
> You actually watched the Championship debate!?  Jayz, I found the Premiership debate boring towards the end (too long).  I wasn't going to bore myself to death watching the Championship.


A bit pedantic perhaps?
I know the poster has quite a history of mixing up there and their but in fairness it's an easy mistake to make and indeed repeat.
 I should point out that the exclamation mark after your use of the word debate is a mark of terminal punctuation and as such should not be followed by a question mark .
!!!!!!!!!!?????


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Feb 2020)

Deiseblue said:


> A bit pedantic perhaps?
> I know the poster has quite a history of mixing up there and their but in fairness it's an easy mistake to make and indeed repeat.
> I should point out that the exclamation mark after your use of the word debate is a mark of terminal punctuation and as such should not be followed by a question mark .
> !!!!!!!!!!?????


Thanks for the punctuation correction
I don't think it is correct to say that _josh _mixes up "there" and "their".  I don't think I have ever seen him use "their".
Slightly seriously though, we all make spelling and punctuation errors especially with predictive text (apologies if you are the exception).  But others have also commented that _josh_' posts can be almost unreadable.


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## Deiseblue (7 Feb 2020)

Josh's posts certainly demand quite a bit of concentration but are worth deciphering !


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Deiseblue said:


> A bit pedantic perhaps?
> I know the poster has quite a history of mixing up there and their but in fairness it's an easy mistake to make and indeed repeat.
> I should point out that the exclamation mark after your use of the word debate is a mark of terminal punctuation and as such should not be followed by a question mark .
> !!!!!!!!!!?????


A The stale script with the perfect spelling is getting harder to sell, ,


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Thanks for the punctuation correction
> I don't think it is correct to say that _josh _mixes up "there" and "their".  I don't think I have ever seen him use "their".
> Slightly seriously though, we all make spelling and punctuation errors especially with predictive text (apologies if you are the exception).  But others have also commented that _josh_' posts can be almost unreadable.


But the  jest of the message Is getting through , I have met perfect spellers in real life but when it comes to cop on you wonder how the put there pants on the correct way every day,


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## Ceist Beag (7 Feb 2020)

josh is the Pudsy Ryan of AAM!


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## RedOnion (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> I am impressed that you too have come to that conclusion after 2 months' membership.


2 months? It's almost like a reincarnation...


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> But the  jest of the message Is getting through , I have met perfect spellers in real life but when it comes to cop on you wonder how the put there pants on the correct way every day,



Everyone makes mistakes but have you tried reading back what you post?  Maybe I am stupid but I had to read that three times before I began to grasp what you are trying to say. 

From what I can gather from your various posts, I think what you are trying to say we should all go live in Austria?


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## EmmDee (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> From what I can gather from your various posts, I think what you are trying to say we should all go live in Austria?



Or Australia... depending on spelling


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> Everyone makes mistakes but have you tried reading back what you post?  Maybe I am stupid but I had to read that three times before I began to grasp what you are trying to say.
> 
> From what I can gather from your various posts, I think what you are trying to say we should all go live in Austria?


We all should question the fairness in the Irish Social insurance the people who post the most in get the least out in a downturn,


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> We all should question the fairness in the Irish Social insurance the people who post the most in get the least out in a downturn,



Eh? The clue is in the name. It is a social insurance. If we were all to take out what we put in, there wouldn't be anything left.

Can't believe I am actually defending social insurance....Next I will be defending how we do social housing in this county....


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

EmmDee said:


> Or Australia... depending on spelling


There are lots of people who were good at spelling who paid into Irish social Insurance System finished up there because of what was taken off them in the good times,
If you are wondering Who they might be
I will let you check it out for Yourself Google
LEO PRSI PLAN,
Enjoy,
When you see what they took away you will understand why some finished upthe other side of the World,


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## Purple (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> We all should question the fairness in the Irish Social insurance the people who post the most in get the least out in a downturn,


The people who pay the most in are the least likely to need it. As Sunny said, it's called Social Insurance. Do you think it should work differently?


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> Eh? The clue is in the name. It is a social insurance. If we were all to take out what we put in, there wouldn't be anything left.
> 
> Can't believe I am actually defending social insurance....Next I will be defending how we do social housing in this county....


Sonny I never checked where you stood on social housing anyhow it does not matter where you stand the people who go into Government with FF/FG  will decide ,


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> There are lots of people who were good at spelling who paid into Irish social Insurance System finished up there because of what was taken off them in the good times,
> If you are wondering Who they might be
> I will let you check it out for Yourself Google
> LEO PRSI PLAN,
> Enjoy,



Google LEO CHICKEN WINGS
Enjoy


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Purple said:


> The people who pay the most in are the least likely to need it. As Sunny said, it's called Social Insurance. Do you think it should work differently?


Like it does in other EU Country and like it used to be hear before it was taken away to be squandered ,


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> Google LEO CHICKEN WINGS
> Enjoy


not a bit nice if you know someone who took there own life after loosing there job
They had a mortgage of 1600 a month best the banks would offer was to cut in to 800 per month
social insurance was around 171 week I think you are away off ,But it speaks for itself,
Always remember being kind is better than being smart,


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## Purple (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> not a bit nice if you know someone who took there own life after loosing there job
> They had a mortgage of 1600 a month best the banks would offer was to cut in to 800 per month
> social insurance was around 171 week I think you are away off ,But it speaks for itself,


I'm lost...


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> not a bit nice if you know someone who took there own life after loosing there job
> They had a mortgage of 1600 a month best the banks would offer was to cut in to 800 per month
> social insurance was around 171 week I think you are away off ,But it speaks for itself,



Seriously, you go off on so many tangents it is impossible to follow you.

I lost my job in the last recession and relied on job seekers for nearly a year so I know exactly what it is like. 

Another tip for you. Don't throw suicide at someone you don't know on the internet. You don't know me or anything about my family. It just makes you look pathetic.


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Purple said:


> I'm lost...


70 % Of a salary of 50K per year is higher than 171 eura a week


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> Seriously, you go off on so many tangents it is impossible to follow you.
> 
> I lost my job in the last recession and relied on job seekers for nearly a year so I know exactly what it is like.
> 
> Another tip for you. Don't throw suicide at someone you don't know on the internet. You don't know me or anything about my family. It just makes you look pathetic.


Sorry Sunny but it is the social security system I was on about , Not you, Sorry again,
171 euro a week after paying in for 25 years is not correct in my book, and LEO agrees but done nothing about it,
There is major reform required to the social insurance system to be fair to the people who get up and go to work and find themselves out of work ,


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> Sorry Sunny but it is the social security system I was on about , Not you,



No problem but the idea of getting 60-70% of your salary while looking for your job if you have made the contributions is great. To afford that though, are you willing to pay a lot more social insurance tax like other European countries? We currently pay a PRSI rate of 4%. In France, Austria, Germany, it is over 20%.


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> We all should question the fairness in the Irish Social insurance the people who *post* the most in get the least out in a downturn,



I never saw that coming, quite brilliant, worthy of the Duke himself.


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2020)

Coming back to the original point of the thread, are Irish people voting for SF like English voting for Brexit or Americans voting for Johnson.

Undoubtedly there is an element of protest vote that is attracted to SF, but there is also a long established republican and republican socialist (a different thing, but mostly allied to SF these days) tradition in Ireland.

And the related question 'is SF given its past and connection to the IRA fit to be in government'. Well anyone who lived in Ireland during the troubles is entitled to their own opinion and we are all so well aware of the issues that it would be futile in most cases to try to persuade anyone to change their minds.

However, and its a big however, if SF get a significant vote share again in this election, possibly even a higher vote share than FG, it becomes unsustainable to claim they are not fit to be in government.

To do so is not just to say SF are unfit, but that the choice of 20% + of the electorate is invalid. To say that SF are unfit for government begins to reflect more on the person saying it than on SF voters. You can think they are making a wrong choice, but in a democracy its their choice to make.

This election is about many things, the economy, crime, housing, health, education, the past record of the parties and yes specifically SF links to the IRA, but it smacks of desperation that RTE and the IT as well as the political parties have focussed so much on the Paul Quinn issue in the last days of the campaign.

OK and now the comment that is going to get me in trouble. FF and FG didn't give two figs about Paul Quinn for the last 13 years, but now they are happy to use him as a stick to beat SF.


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## dereko1969 (7 Feb 2020)

The SF vote is not really a left vote, it's a protest vote and a populist vote. If you listened to Mary Lou on the debates there was so little detail in anything she said as to be laughable, it was all promises and soundbites, all from the Trump playbook. Don't do detail just show that you're as mad as hell with "the swamp" and tweedle dee and tweedle dum and you represent "change". It's nonsense but it worked in the UK and the US and looks like it's going to work here.
When a millionaire in the US and an Eton educated clown in the UK are agents of change why shouldn't FF-lite be regarded as change here?


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

I was wondering how long it would be until the Dublin media got blamed...….

Just because people vote for a party doesn't legitimise them or make them suitable for government. If I set up an anti-immigrant, anti-traveller, anti-jew party and got 10% of the vote, would you welcome other parties having coalition talks with me just because 10% of people were racist enough to vote for me. 

I have said previously, SF has some decent politicians but they can't cope with questions about the past. They will get away with in the North because politics is along sectarian lines (praying to God for not much longer) but that is not the case down South. Quinn was an election issue for me for the past 13 years. So was the Robert McCartney murder with 50 SF members in the toilet when it happened. When I ask SF candidates about these cases, I get told it is nothing to do with them and it was cowardly and people with information should come forward and yet they make Murphy finance minister and Hargey (who was one of them 'in the toilet) minister of communities in the North. They are a bunch of untrustworthy liars.

Mary Lou couldn't even say that Gerry Adams should apologise for saying exactly the same thing that Conor Murphy said. Why not??? Gerry Adams is a retired politician. She would have lost nothing unless there was a reason why she couldn't. Who exactly is running Sinn Fein? Same with the decision about the central Criminal Court. You are right about one thing. They should have been media issues week ago and shouldn't have taken the bravery of a grieving mother to speak out to make it one. That says a lot about political parties and media.


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> No problem but the idea of getting 60-70% of your salary while looking for your job if you have made the contributions is great. To afford that though, are you willing to pay a lot more social insurance tax like other European countries? We currently pay a PRSI rate of 4%. In France, Austria, Germany, it is over 20%.


Just take a look at someone who was on layoff in 2010  earning 50K having started work  around around 1985 would have seen around 17% to close on 20% taken in payroll PRSI up until went on layoff, 
THe German and Irish rates for as long as I remember were very close to one another from around 1980s the german system the employer pays the net wage to the employee and recoups it from the social insurance fund,
The payroll social Insurance employer dropped to 14.75% when the USC came in ,form around the same rate as Germany,

The real Idiot is paddy the Irish PAYE worker since around the 1986 to this day,


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Coming back to the original point of the thread, are Irish people voting for SF like English voting for Brexit or *Americans voting for Johnson*.


Jayz! _creme _that was over 150 years ago


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> I have said previously, SF has some decent politicians but they can't cope with questions about the past.
> 
> Mary Lou couldn't even say that Gerry Adams should apologise for saying exactly the same thing that Conor Murphy said.



I have been googling the Paul Quinn case.

That a young man was horrifically murdered is the central issue.

The current political debate seems to centre around what Conor Murphy said in 2007. It would appear that Bertie Ahern said much the same, and indicated that he did so based on a garda briefing. Shortly afterwards Bertie withdrew his remarks and apologised.

What is never said but is insinuated by many commentators is that SF or the IRA were responsible for Paul Quinn's murder. 

The International Monitoring Commissions report said; that the IRA was not responsible for the murder of Paul Quinn, that the killing was ”clearly contrary to the instructions and strategy of the IRA leadership”, that some members of the IRA *may* have been involved. (bold print is my own).

The other current stick being used to beat SF is that they don't support the Special Criminal Court. Neither do the Greens, or not until yesterday anyway.

Why do FF/FG not come out and say that they won't go into government with SF because SF was he political wing of the IRA and they want nothing to do with that. 

That at least would be honest, but it seems to me that they haven't the courage to do this because if people voted for SF anyway that would leave FF FG exposed.

Not voting SF because they were the IRAs political wing is a perfectly valid position. Voting for SF because they were the IRAs political wing is a perfectly valid position. Voting for or not voting for SF without regards to their IRA history is a perfectly valid position.

Dragging up the non scandal of Paul Quinn (his murder was a scandal, but that's not what's being dragged up) is a shameful straw man argument. The IT, RTE, FF, FG and Eoghan Harris obviously think they have nothing better to put before the electorate.


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## Firefly (7 Feb 2020)

Sunny said:


> Quinn was an election issue for me for the past 13 years. So was the Robert McCartney murder with 50 SF members in the toilet when it happened. When I ask SF candidates about these cases, I get told it is nothing to do with them and it was cowardly and people with information should come forward



Genuinely, I would be afraid of asking SF candidates those questions, especially if they came knocking on my door as they would know where I lived. It tells me all I need to know about voting for them.

Being far left is bad enough, but this is an entirely different prospect. Can you imagine Ireland after say 8 years with SF in power?


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## Sunny (7 Feb 2020)

Sorry but there is a huge difference in what Bertie said about the murder and what murphy said directly about Quinn. Bertie also retracted what was said inside and outside the house when asked. 13 years, the family of Paul Quinn have waited for Murphy to withdraw the remarks. 13 years of him not only not retracting it but denying saying it. A lie that the SF leader repeated on national television until the actual quote was read out to her and damage limitation was entered into. Even now they wont confirm that Murphy has given the names of the IRA members that he spoke to and denied the crime to the authorities. 

As for the actual crime itself, nobody is any doubt that members of the local IRA carried out the murder. Nobody. As for whether the murder was officially sanctioned by the IRA leadership of not, I couldn't give a damn. They are still protecting the killers of that boy 13 years later. Same with the murder of Robert McCartney. When Guards are killed during a bank robbery, it is always a rogue element but we have a situation where a sitting SF TD goes to meet them out of prison like conquering heroes. 

As the central criminal court, I dont agree with the green party. Smacks of liberalism for the sake of liberalism. But at least I cant doubt their motives unless they have a history of their members being convicted by the same court. 

Also nobody dragged up the Paul Quinn murder. It was brought up because a grieving mother was brave enough to do an interview. Did she use the election? Yes. Do you blame her? Are you saying it was shameful that she did the interview and dragged it all up again? She shouldn't have had to do the interview. SF should have had to answer these questions weeks ago. The murder and the on going cover up is a scandal to her and it is a scandal to me. 

We have pussy footed around the issues of SF for long enough. They need to answer the questions being asked. Judging by the performance of mary Lou in the past few days, there is little doubt that she ie answerable to more than the members of her party.


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> I have been googling the Paul Quinn case.
> 
> That a young man was horrifically murdered is the central issue.
> 
> ...


_creme  s_ome interesting points their (  ) esp re IMC report.  I also think the exploitation of the issue looks a tad opportunist.  But the question remains why did SF make the statement at all about PQ being a criminal if it were not to justify to themselves and their supporters the brutal murder?

On a separate tack, I really think the FOT line that it is "dangerous" to exclude SF from government is a nonsense, yep that's what he said.  For many, many people SF/IRA are totally toxic.  It is perfectly legitimate for folk to require their chosen party to refuse to facilitate bringing SF/IRA into government.  Maybe either FF or FG will make that mistake.  It would be the end of them. More than half their supporters would never forgive them.  I myself have voted for both Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in the past.  The first to make that mistake will never again be on my ballot paper.


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> But the question remains why did SF make the statement at all about PQ being a criminal if it were not to justify to themselves and their supporters the brutal murder?



Its surprising how different people can look at one thing and see it differently.

While obviously I don't know why SF said that PQ was a criminal, I had assumed that it was not to justify his killing but to signal that it had nothing to do with them. 

Not "we killed him because he was a criminal" rather "he was a criminal killed by other criminals nothing to do with us"

Of course it could also be that SF believed it to be true. Bertie Ahern said the Gardaí told him that was being briefed by the PSNI.


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## Duke of Marmalade (7 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Its surprising how different people can look at one thing and see it differently.
> 
> While obviously I don't know why SF said that PQ was a criminal, I had assumed that it was not to justify his killing but to signal that it had nothing to do with them.


Hmm!  You may be right, in fact I think you are.  In which case SF/IRA are totally innocent here and it is all a contrived dirty trick by the "establishment".  Anyway, in my view even dirty tricks are justified against that lot, unless they backfire.


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## blueband (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> _creme  s_ome interesting points their (  ) esp re IMC report.  I also think the exploitation of the issue looks a tad opportunist.  But the question remains why did SF make the statement at all about PQ being a criminal if it were not to justify to themselves and their supporters the brutal murder?
> 
> On a separate tack, I really think the FOT line that it is "dangerous" to exclude SF from government is a nonsense, yep that's what he said.  For many, many people SF/IRA are totally toxic.  It is perfectly legitimate for folk to require their chosen party to refuse to facilitate bringing SF/IRA into government.  Maybe either FF or FG will make that mistake.  It would be the end of them. More than half their supporters would never forgive them.  I myself have voted for both Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in the past.  The first to make that mistake will never again be on my ballot paper.


that day is coming sooner or later as they will have no choice, my guess is sooner...


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> Hmm!  You may be right, in fact I think you are.  In which case SF/IRA are totally innocent here and it is all a contrived dirty trick by the "establishment".  Anyway, in my view even dirty tricks are justified against that lot, unless they backfire.



I have no idea how to respond to this. Touché


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## josh8267 (7 Feb 2020)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> _creme  s_ome interesting points their (  ) esp re IMC report.  I also think the exploitation of the issue looks a tad opportunist.  But the question remains why did SF make the statement at all about PQ being a criminal if it were not to justify to themselves and their supporters the brutal murder?
> 
> The first to make that mistake will never again be on my ballot paper.


They will be on your ballot paper Duke will not be voting for them,


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## Delboy (7 Feb 2020)

cremeegg said:


> Its surprising how different people can look at one thing and see it differently.
> 
> While obviously I don't know why SF said that PQ was a criminal, I had assumed that it was not to justify his killing but to signal that it had nothing to do with them.
> 
> ...


Do you believe that a murder like that, in Sth Armagh, had absolutely nothing to do with people affiliated with Sinn Fein? Do you honestly believe that?


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## cremeegg (8 Feb 2020)

Delboy said:


> Do you believe that a murder like that, in Sth Armagh, had absolutely nothing to do with people affiliated with Sinn Fein? Do you honestly believe that?



I suggested above that people some times see the same event differently. 

This can arise from a different view of the world but in this case it’s just because you didn’t read my post


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## WolfeTone (8 Feb 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> The new low has to be Paul Quinn debacle - all politicians can be dodgy sometimes - but these guys are really off the scale ugly.]



Its not a new low, it is actually the standard. 
After 25yrs of conflict the opportunity to bring reconciliation is being squandered with regards to people in high office failing in their duties to bring truth, justice and closure for the families of the victims. 

That said, the Quinn murder should not be looked at in a vacuum. 
The reality is that people in high office on all sides are actively failing in their duties to bring truth, justice and closure to families of victims. 
Just this week, a High Court judge in Belfast said it was appalling that the documents relating to the slaughter of Miami Showband not being released was appalling

Appalling

Add to that the litany of slaughters - Sean Graham bookies, Greysteel, Loughinisland etc...etc... where there is a clear and evident path of cover-up and collusion by the authorities in law and order. 

It doesn't make for much political point scoring down here, because the partitionist parties can remain at arms length by opting out of the political quagmire that is NI affairs. Until that is, when it suits them to use those affairs, cherry-picking their fake outrage.


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## josh8267 (8 Feb 2020)

Purple said:


> The people who pay the most in are the least likely to need it. As Sunny said, it's called Social Insurance. Do you think it should work differently?


Main reason it was set up was to avoid a large drop in income Between time employees lost one job and got re employed again or  on company  lay off,
Of course it should full Title is pay related social insurance, and it did work well , until it was Butchered by FF/FG so it could be squandered and Depleted and used as a bribe ,


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## josh8267 (8 Feb 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> In recent years, we have watched aghast & bemused as the Brits voted for Brexit & Boris and the Yanks for Trump. Is it now Paddy's turn to be an idiot and allow the Sinners to get their filthy hands on the tiller? [The new low has to be Paul Quinn debacle - all politicians can be dodgy sometimes - but these guys are really off the scale ugly.]


The Brits watched aghast and bemused as paddy thought he was rich before he found out the money belonged to German Pensioners not the paddies,
Unfairness is driving people away from FF/FG Irish people resisting reform will be picking up the bill next time,
The next bail out will be mortgaged against Irish held Wealth,
I think someone posted Ireland is the 4th richest in the OECD, so we should be bailing out ourselves next time,


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## WolfeTone (8 Feb 2020)

Firefly said:


> Important article by Dan O'Brien in today's Indo. Anyone even contemplating voting for SF should read & digest this article. Be very careful what you wish for....



Unfortunately, and with respect to DOB, it is nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece straight out of the Eoghan Harris editorial manifest of "How to bash SF". 
That said, there are obvious and genuine concerns around SF, its past, the IRA and around the murder of Paul Quinn. 
But the article attempts to propagate a view that the IRA is waiting in the wings, ready to impose a full military assault on the Irish people to impose its socialist militarist agenda. 
Nothing could be further from the truth, and anyone following the affairs of NI, in particular SF and IRA could not possibly conclude anything other than the Republican movement strategy has been to abandon armed actions in favour of political representation. That said, the process has not been easy and obviously the Quinn murder shines a light on the 'baggage' of SF. 
But DoB goes a bit further here today. He proclaims that SF has a private army. The implication of the word 'army' suggests people ('shadowy' ones at that, aka as political advisors and strategists) equipped for military purposes. 
This goes against all the evidence on the ground. 
Did 'shadowy' people order Mary Lou to stand with in the Creggan and condemn the murderers of Lyra McKee?
Did shadowy people order Martin McG to label the killers of British soldiers in Ireland as traitors? 
If so, shouldn't we applaud the 'shadowy' people? 
A simple observation of SF and DUP restoration of Stormont, supported by Irish and British governments, without one reference to SFs 'private army' is testament to false narrative being peddled by DoB. 
So either he has some information that the DUP and the two Governments have missed, in which case he should forward that information to Gardai, or he is acting as a mouthpiece to propagate an agenda for political means. 

DoB opens up by referring to the plight of Venezuelans under the Maduro administration and the economic collapse, convenienty omitting that the US has imposed economic sanctions against Venezuela primarily for the purpose of causing economic collapse in the hope that a new administration, one friendly to US corporations, can be installed. 
That said, DoB even refers to NI as some sort of failing central American socialist economy - who has been governing this entity for a 100yrs? - was it SF? 
So while deploring the effects of 'failed' socialist policies in South and Central America, DoB seems somewhat benign to the existence of a similarly failing socialist entity called NI.


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## joe sod (8 Feb 2020)

Firefly said:


> Important article by Dan O'Brien in today's Indo. Anyone even contemplating voting for SF should read & digest this article. Be very careful what you wish for....



a very good article and food for thought. Yes we have problems in Ireland now but they are the problems of a wealthy european country, we could have really messed up after the financial crash and the poorest would have suffered the most as an insolvent country would not be able to pay for social welfare and public salaries. We could have the problems of Venezuela or Argentina the richest countries in the world a century ago which attracted huge numbers of european migrants. Now look at them, their experiments with socialism a total failure.
We in Ireland love to have a moan and a whinge, its a national trait, we are never happy until we are complaining about something.
As for Leo Varadker, I have never been a supporter of his but I think he has really stepped up to the mark in this election, I have warmed to him


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## josh8267 (8 Feb 2020)

joe sod said:


> As for Leo Varadker, I have never been a supporter of his but I think he has really stepped up to the mark in this election, I have warmed to him


I agree 100% there are vested interests groups along with a Right Wing underbelly of intolerance, entrench somewhere in FG the popped there head a few times Leo was a bit slow in cutting there head off , he should have gone after the invisible intolerance holding him back,

I have already posted on this site in my view he won the leaders debate by a mile,

When he was in charge of social security he put out a press release  you can still read it if you Google Leo's Prsi Plan,

The big mistake he made was when he became leader he did not follow through with his Plan,

There is Intolerance lurking just below the surface in Ireland it finds it home in the likes of FG and FF, he should have taken that intolerance on,

Once you scratch the surface you will find the kind of invisible intolerant  idiot's who think the are above others rearing there head,

People are turning to SF because of the right wing idiot's you see lurking around, very few if any at all  vote for there  policies ,people are just trying to get the extreme right wing monkey off there back,


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## WolfeTone (8 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> There is Intolerance lurking just below the surface in Ireland it finds it home in the likes of FG and FF, he should have taken that intolerance on,
> 
> Once you scratch the surface you will find the kind of invisible intolerant idiot's who think the are above others rearing there head,
> 
> People are turning to SF because of the right wing idiot's you see lurking around, very few if any at all vote for there policies ,people are just trying to get the extreme right wing monkey off there back,



Well said.


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## Delboy (8 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> I agree 100% there are vested interests groups along with a Right Wing underbelly of intolerance, entrench somewhere in FG the popped there head a few times Leo was a bit slow in cutting there head off , he should have gone after the invisible intolerance holding him back,
> 
> I have already posted on this site in my view he won the leaders debate by a mile,
> 
> ...


There is no right wing of any notable size in Ireland, certainly not one worth talking about. And certainly not one that dominated any Irish Govt.
So I'm not sure what bogeyman is keeping you up at night!


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## elacsaplau (10 Feb 2020)

elacsaplau said:


> In recent years, we have watched aghast & bemused as the Brits voted for Brexit & Boris and the Yanks for Trump. Is it now Paddy's turn to be an idiot and allow the Sinners to get their filthy hands on the tiller?



Oh my prophetic soul, perhaps [Hamlet, Act I]

I just smelt it...…..


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## Purple (12 Feb 2020)

josh8267 said:


> I agree 100% there are vested interests groups along with a Right Wing underbelly of intolerance, entrench somewhere in FG the popped there head a few times Leo was a bit slow in cutting there head off , he should have gone after the invisible intolerance holding him back


This is the same FG who have an openly gay leader, who brought in marriage equality and abortion?
This is the same SF what accepted an apology from one of their elected representatives who said that the country shouldn't be run by darkies or queers and only kicked him out when he said something bad about women?

Donald Trump said that if he shot someone in Time Square his supporters would still vote for him which elicited sharp intake of breath from the morally superior classes here and elsewhere. Well the Shinners have shot, blown up and beaten people to death and many of those same people here are happy to vote for them. Let's not pretend that their supporters have the moral high ground.


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## Sunny (12 Feb 2020)

Purple said:


> This is the same FG who have an openly gay leader, who brought in marriage equality and abortion?
> This is the same SF what accepted an apology from one of their elected representatives who said that the country shouldn't be run by darkies or queers and only kicked him out when he said something bad about women?
> 
> Donald Trump said that if he shot someone in Time Square his supporters would still vote for him which elicited sharp intake of breath from the morally superior classes here and elsewhere. Well the Shinners have shot, blown up and beaten people to death and many of those same people here are happy to vote for them. Let's not pretend that their supporters have the moral high ground.



You are a step closer to re-education camp Purple...… It will involve daily classes of Gerry Adams and a guitar singing 'folk' songs...


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