# Can a tenant be given notice to leave at the end of six months with no reason required?



## DannyBoyD (31 Aug 2022)

Am i right in saying that a tenant can be given notice to leave at the end of six months with no reason required?

this is what it says on the RTB website:

Grounds to end a tenancy​If a tenancy has lasted less than 6 months, the landlord does not have to give a ground as to why the tenancy is ending.

so I can let my property for 6 months only and the tenant has to move out then; obviously it would only be fair at the start to let tenant know that it will be only six months in the first place.


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## mathepac (31 Aug 2022)

The key bit is LESS THAN 6 months. 180 days or thereabouts


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## DannyBoyD (31 Aug 2022)

I think 6 months is clear; it only has to be one day under.

What Im asking is if I can let the property for six months at a time (to different tenants each time) and not be stuck with a long term tenancy?


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## moneymakeover (31 Aug 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> I think 6 months is clear; it only has to be one day under.
> 
> What Im asking is if I can let the property for six months at a time (to different tenants each time) and not be stuck with a long term tenancy?


I think you're right
However from an expense point of view you will have cleaning and decorating every 6 months
Also void until now tenant
Expense of letting agent to find new tenant
And what if due to inertia the tenant is still there after 180 days, for e tenant have a claim?

Better to start with 3 months
Hike up standards
Hike up rent 
Ensure they're well gone by 5 months


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## DannyBoyD (31 Aug 2022)

Cleaning isn't a problem. I dont think I'd have to decorate every six months. In the present market, I doubt there'd be voids. Anyway its a possible strategy until the election is over.


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## moneymakeover (31 Aug 2022)

And is it the case that short lets not constrained by rpz rules?


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## Greenbook (1 Sep 2022)

You have to give three months notice these days to end a 6 month tenancy. I'm not sure, but if you give three months notice at say the start of the fifth month, does that mean the tenant now has a Part IV tenancy ie. there for five months followed by the three months notice so in occupation for eight months in total


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## DannyBoyD (1 Sep 2022)

So I think that you'd tell tenant at the start that this was 6 months only, then at 3 months issue the notice to quit in 3 months time. It shouldnt be a surprise as you said 6 months at the start.

I dont think they can sit up on you then & claim a part 4 as they are overholding if they dont leave.

I dont know about RPZ - maybe someone else does?


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## Leo (15 Sep 2022)

moneymakeover said:


> And is it the case that short lets not constrained by rpz rules?


Short term is generally looked as as periods of up to 14 days.


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## DannyBoyD (15 Sep 2022)

theres no issue doing 6 month lets from rpz point of view, doesn't enter into the equation


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## AlbacoreA (16 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> theres no issue doing 6 month lets from rpz point of view, doesn't enter into the equation



This issue is if they don't leave.


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## Groucho (16 Sep 2022)

AlbacoreA said:


> This issue is if they don't leave.



Or, more probably, *when* they don't leave!


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## DannyBoyD (16 Sep 2022)

Same problem as you have right now.

But tenant can't claim a part 4 by overholding.


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## AlbacoreA (16 Sep 2022)

They don't need to...


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## DannyBoyD (16 Sep 2022)

I dont understand your post. 

If a tenant is given notice to leave before 6 months and they refuse to vacate - they are overholding.


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## valery (16 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> If a tenant is given notice to leave before 6 months and they refuse to vacate - they are overholding.


But the problem is there is little or no consequences to over holding in the short term.


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## AlbacoreA (16 Sep 2022)

Exactly


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## DannyBoyD (16 Sep 2022)

But that is the case anyway!

If you have a tenant right now with a part 4,  and you give the appropriate notice as you want to sell / renovate / move in; then the tenant must abide by that.

Yes they could overhold & you have to go through the various steps to get them out; but they don't have a legal defence to stay.

Now what everyone is worried about is tenancies of indefinite duration, where you have no grounds to regain control of your property.

So the only solution is to have shorter lets so that the indefinite duration lease is never acquired.

Yes you still run the overholding risk - no more than you do at present - but the tenant has no legal defence.


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## AlbacoreA (16 Sep 2022)

You realize they've the last decade trying to get rid of short term let's. 

Also making it as hard as possible to evict anyone quickly.


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## DannyBoyD (16 Sep 2022)

Short term let is considered to be 14 days or less.


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## Leo (19 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> Yes you still run the overholding risk - no more than you do at present - but the tenant has no legal defence.


All else being equal, 4 different tenants over the course of two years significantly increases your chances of getting a bad one who will over-hold. If you're not up-front at the start about the tenancy being limited to 6 months, the surprise of getting termination notice later might tip an otherwise good tenant over the edge into over-holding.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Sep 2022)

Even if you are upfront. Someone with no other options will overhold.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (19 Sep 2022)

Leo said:


> All else being equal, 4 different tenants over the course of two years significantly increases your chances of getting a bad one who will over-hold. If you're not up-front at the start about the tenancy being limited to 6 months, the surprise of getting termination notice later might tip an otherwise good tenant over the edge into over-holding.


Fully agree.

There's far too much effort involved and so much scope for disagreement with tenants. It's not a feasible strategy at individual level, never mind at population level.

If you are going to be a landlord be prepared to have tenants there as long as they want to be.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Sep 2022)

Most LLs want a tenant that is there a long time with no issues. They used to prepared to offer a reduced rent to retain them. 

RPZ made this unstainable going forward.


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## DannyBoyD (19 Sep 2022)

Leo said:


> If you're not up-front at the start about the tenancy being limited to 6 months


Refer Post #1 and post #8; so no surprises.


Leo said:


> 4 different tenants over the course of two years significantly increases your chances of getting a bad one


Agreed.  But still a known risk right now versus the unknown risk of what a Sinn Fein government might do.  As of now the legal system will support my right to regain my property; even if it's a tedious process.

it's a risk I prefer over the next two or so years until the next election is over.



> Most LLs want a tenant that is there a long time with no issues.


I agree with this too.

But I  want the right to regain control of my property at the appropriate time.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Sep 2022)

6 months only works with a tenant who is compliant. (which hopefully will be most of them)
Anyone who doesn't comply will ignore it and overstay. Then 6 months becomes meaningless. 

You can't force a timely recovery of the property. Fooling yourself if you think you can. 

You suck it up as you would a bad debt.


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## DannyBoyD (19 Sep 2022)

AlbacoreA said:


> Then 6 months becomes meaningless


Yes and no.

Yes in so far as a tenant could overhold - but they could overhold even with a longer tenancy.

No in so far as the tenant does not gain a part 4 tenancy by overholding.

so whilst they may overhold - they will eventually have to leave.

not surprisingly we hear more about the overholding / property trashing tenants than we do about the ones who vacate as they are supposed to

is letting for a six month term risk free? no, it isn't.  but it's one I'm prepared to take at this time.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Sep 2022)

Well you started the thread about 6 month leases. So its a bit hard not to mention the entire purpose of the 6 month lease, a reduction in risk. 









						Ending A Tenancy - First 6 Months - Irish Property Owners' Association
					

The legal requirement for termination of a tenancy during the probationary period - in the first six months of the tenancy, changed from 28 days to 90 days.




					ipoa.ie
				




You may never have the issue. But if you do, you should have reserve to endure however long the overholding takes and costs.


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## Leo (19 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> But still a known risk right now versus the unknown risk of what a Sinn Fein government might do. As of now the legal system will support my right to regain my property; even if it's a tedious process.


True, but no matter what Sinn Fein try to do in this regard, it won't happen overnight. Legislation generally takes time to work its way through the system. Yes the Covid measures were rushed in quickly, but I can't see them trying a similar approach with this. This measure will make no meaningful improvement to the rental market so they won't want to rush it in under emergency legislation only to give the opposition more time in advance of the next election to highlight its failure.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Sep 2022)

No matter that they do they can't create supply, via LLs.


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## DannyBoyD (19 Sep 2022)

Leo said:


> no matter what Sinn Fein try to do in this regard, it won't happen overnight.


that's the bit I wouldn't be so sure of.


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## Look ahead (19 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> that's the bit I wouldn't be so sure of.


Let out the house on Airbnb or to students if you are any where near a college.


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## DannyBoyD (19 Sep 2022)

Students would still acquire a part 4 once tenancy is over 6 months.

Air BnB requires planning for RPZ; and whatever about cleaning every six months I'm definitely not doing it every week!


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## Look ahead (20 Sep 2022)

Well then you only option is to sell if you not prepared to be in it for the long haul. It's not good to be a reluctant landlord.


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## jim (20 Sep 2022)

I think theres merit in your approach @DannyBoyD.

There might be more hassal for you but if you are upfront at outset, which you said you would be, and if you select your tenants somewhat wisely, I think its a good strategy to protect your property rights vis a vis part 4.

I tend to think about these things in terms of risks or downsides. Heres what i see as risks or downsides.

1  tenant mightoverhold. But thats a risk regardless so possibly a moot point re this strategy.

2. Additional hassal of choosing tenants every 6 months. In current mkt there is any number of possible tenants so as long as you are prepared for this and no what youre doing then its manageable


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## DannyBoyD (20 Sep 2022)

Look ahead said:


> you only option is to sell if you not prepared to be in it for the long haul


selling is not my only option.  the whole point of this thread is about renting property but not potentially being trapped if there is a change of government policy at the next election.


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## Sconeandjam (23 Sep 2022)

If the property is near Pyrite or Mica affected properties you could rent to home owners that will have difficulty find a property to rent short term. There would be more cleaning and painting required but that could be an option.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (23 Sep 2022)

Sconeandjam said:


> If the property is near Pyrite or Mica affected properties you could rent to home owners that will have difficulty find a property to rent short term.


Anyone getting a Mica rebuild will need a lot more than a six month tenancy.


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## Sconeandjam (23 Sep 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Anyone getting a Mica rebuild will need a lot more than a six month tenancy.


Home owners will hand the house back to you are they would want to move home once their property is finished. Well you hope they would…


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## DannyBoyD (23 Sep 2022)

No idea where the "Mica" & "Pyrite" notion came from.

Not an issue in my property thankfully & has no bearing on six month letting that I can see.


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## Sconeandjam (23 Sep 2022)

DannyBoyD said:


> No idea where the "Mica" & "Pyrite" notion came from.
> 
> Not an issue in my property thankfully & has no bearing on six month letting that I can see.


No you rent to pyrite or mica affected home owners. The Pyrite affected might rent for say 3-4 months. Mica maybe 6-12 mon this depending on size of house but they would want to move back to their own home either way.


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## DannyBoyD (24 Sep 2022)

I understand the post now thx.

I don't think I need to be so specific in my target market.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (25 Oct 2022)

A question on issuing notice to avoid rolling over a part 4 tenancy to indefinite duration. You are obliged to give at least the minimum notice but I read the description on notice and it said it could terminate after the end of the original lease. 

Can you enter into a new lease and give notice before 6 months that you intend to terminate the lease but give a year or two years notice? 
That way you avoid rolling over but don't have the short term changeover issues.

Is it the serving of the notice before the rollover point that counts or is there some time limit on the termination of the letting?


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## RonnieShinbal88 (25 Oct 2022)

RonnieShinbal88 said:


> A question on issuing notice to avoid rolling over a part 4 tenancy to indefinite duration. You are obliged to give at least the minimum notice but I read the description on notice and it said it could terminate after the end of the original lease.
> 
> Can you enter into a new lease and give notice before 6 months that you intend to terminate the lease but give a year or two years notice?
> That way you avoid rolling over but don't have the short term changeover issues.
> ...


From the notice of termination example on the RTB site:

Before a Further Part 4 tenancy transitions to a Tenancy of Unlimited Duration, the landlord can terminate it for any reason (including a reason in addition to the lawful termination grounds provided by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended) (RTA)). To do so however, the landlord must serve a Notice of Termination prior to the end of the next 6-year period, where the notice period expires on or after the last day of that 6-year period.


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