# Took details of Litter Bug: Who do I give details to?



## dodo (13 Aug 2008)

I this morning was so disgusted that the driver in front of me thought it was ok to throw out his cigarette butt  that I decided to take down his details, who do  I give the details to ?


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## circle (13 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*

From litter.ie:

Litter Freephone

*Further Information:*
Dublin City Council 01 4114300
*Description:*
Members of the public have been urged "to blow the whistle" on litter offenders through a new freephone line which has been set up to alert wardens. It is aims at reporting indiscriminate littering, abandoned vehicles and graffitti.


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## micmclo (13 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*

What's to stop this being abused?
Surely then can't hand out fines based on just the word of the OP?

I'm not saying circle made this up but sure people could memorize their neighbours car reg and start a vendetta against them.


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## S.L.F (13 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



circle said:


> *Description:*
> Members of the public have been urged "to blow the whistle" on litter offenders through a new freephone line which has been set up to alert wardens. It is aims at reporting indiscriminate littering, abandoned vehicles and graffitti.



I blew the whistle on a guy who was running a business from his house illegally.
I was told *I* had to prove he was running the business from that address.
I sent the council flyers, details of his web site, news paper adverts, his phone book listings.
The only thing I didn't do was drag the man in himself to confess.
He's still running the business from his house, in the year and a half since I sent them a letter only 1 inspector has called to his premises.

My experiences with councils colours my view of these new 'initatives'.

A great idea but the various councils do damn all when it comes to the crunch, they just don't have the staff.


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## Dowee (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*

I reported a guy I saw littering / dumping illegally to the litter warden. It went to court and he got fined by the judge despite the fact that he denied doing it. So it is definitely worth reporting these things and having the warden chase them up.


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## Elphaba (14 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



dodo said:


> I this morning was so disgusted that the driver in front of me thought it was ok to throw out his cigarette butt that I decided to take down his details, who do I give the details to ?


 
Have you really nothing better to do?


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2008)

dodo said:


> I this morning was so disgusted that the driver in front of me thought it was ok to throw out his cigarette butt  that I decided to take down his details, who do  I give the details to ?


You weren't a back seat passenger by any chance?


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## gramlab (14 Aug 2008)

System is needed but not in the form it is. 

Driving a few weeks ago and the guy in front threw something out his window (wrapper maybe). Pulled into the supermarket car park and a lady pulls up beside to give out to me for littering - she was behind my car and presumably thought I threw it.

Given the system that is in place, if she reported me I would probably get fined


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## gebbel (14 Aug 2008)

dodo said:


> I this morning was so disgusted that the driver in front of me thought it was ok to throw out his cigarette butt that I decided to take down his details, who do I give the details to ?


 
Joe Duffy


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## Elphaba (14 Aug 2008)

Santa Claus


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## Simeon (15 Aug 2008)

clubman said:


> you Weren't A Back Seat Passenger By Any Chance?


Ha ha!!!


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## LDFerguson (15 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



Elphaba said:


> Have you really nothing better to do?


 
So what do you suggest?


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

dodo said:


> I this morning was so disgusted that the driver in front of me thought it was ok to throw out his cigarette butt that I decided to take down his details, who do I give the details to ?


 
Maybe the wind grabbed it out of his hand as he was trying to get the last drag off it and he didnt throw it out at all?

Dont you think there are more important issues you could invest time in instead of reporting 1 fag butt being thrown out of a car window?


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## z104 (15 Aug 2008)

Big brother is watching you.


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## juke (15 Aug 2008)

About 5 years ago a friend received a summons to court for allegedly throwing a butt from a car window whilst in Bray. It wasn't her (but may have been her husband). The case was thrown out as she could show she wasn't in Bray on the day


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## LDFerguson (15 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Maybe the wind grabbed it out of his hand as he was trying to get the last drag off it and he didnt throw it out at all?
> 
> Dont you think there are more important issues you could invest time in instead of reporting 1 fag butt being thrown out of a car window?


 
Maybe if more people took an interest in, and action on issues of importance to them like dodo is doing, we could collectively improve our country.   

But like so many issues in this country, too many people take the attitude that they're far too important and busy to worry about minor things like this and would prefer to let someone else take responsibility and do the work.  

It doesn't matter if the litter bug mentioned in the original post doesn't get fined or prosecuted as a result of dodo's call.  If he gets a call or letter from the authorities as a result of which he has to justify or deny his actions, he might just think twice about being such a lazy slob the next time.  Cars have ashtrays.  It's not exactly hard for someone to pop the ashtray out their car every so often and empty the contents into a bin.


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> minor things like this


 
Well thats it really - it IS very minor and it just seems petty for someone to go to the extent of actually reporting it. 
Just my opinion.


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## MrMan (15 Aug 2008)

Funny that people think reporting littering is minor yet if a sales assistant is rude they think nothing of writing a letter to the management or creating a stink over a price being marked wrong. No harm in reporting someone for doing something thats against the law at least there is no grey area, they did throw the litter and it is an offence.


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

MrMan said:


> Funny that people think reporting littering is minor yet if a sales assistant is rude they think nothing of writing a letter to the management or creating a stink over a price being marked wrong. No harm in reporting someone for doing something thats against the law at least there is no grey area, they did throw the litter and it is an offence.


 
Writing a letter to management or creating a stink is (a) something that happens to you directly and (b) not likely to result in management going to court.

While I agree that littering is an offence and not nice for people to do it, somewhere inside me I just feel for something so minor that its rather petty for someone to be reporting it. Id rather not live in a society where I think people are watching and reporting my every move, if a piece of lint falls out of my pocket am I to be taken to court for it? 

Actually, I think its that I dislike the element of busy-bodyness more so than I dislike the action of an individual cigarette butt being thrown out of a window.

Thats just my own opinion, MrMan you are correct there is no grey area, littering is littering etc.....but I think the average person would be inclined not to even notice something like this, let alone be reporting it to the authorities.


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## Elphaba (15 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



LDFerguson said:


> So what do you suggest?



OP could set up a support group for people affected by litter bugs


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## Ham Slicer (15 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> While I agree that littering is an offence and not nice for people to do it, somewhere inside me I just feel for something so minor that its rather petty for someone to be reporting it. Id rather not live in a society where I think people are watching and reporting my every move, if a piece of lint falls out of my pocket am I to be taken to court for it?



So what's the cut off point?

One Butt - OK
Full Ashtray?
Clean Nappy?
Dirty Nappy?
Bin Liner?


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

I don't think that de minimis applies to littering.


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## Teabag (15 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I don't think that de minimis applies to littering.



Is this some reference to Austin Powers ?


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## MrMan (15 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



Elphaba said:


> OP could set up a support group for people affected by litter bugs




Depends where you live, take a drive through some areas and see what a careless attitude to litter leads to. It was one cigarette butt, and taking into consideration there is another 19 butts to be disposed in that pack I'd be pretty sure the majority of them will find themselves casually thrown to the ground.


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

Ham Slicer said:


> So what's the cut off point?
> 
> One Butt - OK
> Full Ashtray?
> ...



Valid point, I just think it would be a nicer society if people were a little more concerned with being nice to each other rather than becoming self appointed litter police and reporting others for what seems to me (just my own opinion) a very minor matter.


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

Teabag said:


> Is this some reference to Austin Powers ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis


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## LDFerguson (15 Aug 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Valid point, I just think it would be a nicer society if people were a little more concerned with being nice to each other rather than becoming self appointed litter police and reporting others for what seems to me (just my own opinion) a very minor matter.


 
Also a valid point, but if it was a nicer society, people would have more consideration than to litter in the first place.  The person that dodo saw littering is evidently not a particularly considerate person, so how else could s/he be expected to make the point?


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> Also a valid point, but if it was a nicer society, people would have more consideration than to litter in the first place.  The person that dodo saw littering is evidently not a particularly considerate person, so how else could s/he be expected to make the point?



Perhaps by indicating to them to pull in and politely informing them they had just littered and its not very nice?


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## Round Tuit (15 Aug 2008)

"Perhaps by indicating to them to pull in and politely informing them they had just littered and its not very nice?"

My dad is good a doing this with a smile. The car concerned was not moving much at all, he was a pedestrian. He handed them back their rubbish and told them they appeared to have dropped something. This was responded to by a stream of abuse and as soon as he stepped away and the traffic had moved on a bit they threw the rubbish out the window again. Needless to say he had the reg no and reported them, was asked would he be happy to go to court if it came to it and he said yes as he'd also seen the driver during their exchange and could identify him. Not surprisingly it didn't come to court/wasn't disputed.


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

Well at least it gives them the option to amend their ways without running straight off and reporting someone who may have absent mindedly let a butt drop out a window.


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## Round Tuit (15 Aug 2008)

I beg to differ on the "absentmindedly". I've got to say I was brought up never to drop litter anywhere, ever. Similarly I never even start the engine of the car without putting on my seatbelt. So I really think it's not something you'd do absentmindedly . . . you either litter or you don't. In my initial example I would think that had he not had the opportunity to attempt to interact with the litterer he would have reported them straight off.


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## JJ1982 (15 Aug 2008)

*Re: Took details of Litter Bug*



S.L.F said:


> I blew the whistle on a guy who was running a business from his house illegally.
> I was told *I* had to prove he was running the business from that address.
> I sent the council flyers, details of his web site, news paper adverts, his phone book listings.
> The only thing I didn't do was drag the man in himself to confess.
> ...


 
How did you know that he was running the business illegally do you mind me asking?

Thanks


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## LDFerguson (15 Aug 2008)

I agree that it's virtually impossible to absent-mindedly litter.

Bear in mind also that the simple act of reporting someone doesn't mean that they will automatically be hanged or jailed for twenty years.  In reality, as has been pointed out in this thread, the likelihood of someone being convicted based on a single report is very small.  But the very fact of a follow-up call or letter from the authorities should give all but the most hardened thug some pause for thought before dropping the next bit of rubbish on a street.  

So I still say that reporting someone is the correct thing to do.  By all means, politely challenge the person if you wish, but you do run a certain amount of personal risk in doing so and circumstances may not permit this - I'm not advocating The Sweeney-style car chases.


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> I'm not advocating The Sweeney-style car chases.



And Im not advocating George Orwellian type society where youre being watched and reported for every minor transgression by every member of the public.


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

Sure if you have nothing to hide, what is the problem?


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## S.L.F (15 Aug 2008)

S.L.F said:


> I blew the whistle on a guy who was running a business from his house illegally.
> I was told *I* had to prove he was running the business from that address.
> I sent the council flyers, details of his web site, news paper adverts, his phone book listings.
> The only thing I didn't do was drag the man in himself to confess.
> ...





JJ1982 said:


> How did you know that he was running the business illegally do you mind me asking?
> 
> Thanks



I called to the council and asked if he had planning permission to run a commercial venture from his house they said "No".


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## truthseeker (15 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Sure if you have nothing to hide, what is the problem?



I think if most people examined their lives they would all have committed minor transgressions or performed trivial acts that could result in a day in court. How many of us have taken an illegal turn, gone a little over the speed limit, had a piece of paper or receipt whipped out of our hands and blown off before we could grab it, thrown a butt out of a window unthinkingly, played our music too loud and bothered a neighbour or whatever.


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

At that stage you should have complained about the lack of PP and had enforcement action taken against him.


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## DavyJones (15 Aug 2008)

I agree with Truthseeker. It's much ado about nothing.


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

If you were a motorcyclist following behind this inconsiderate person you could get their butt in your face with possible fatal consequences.

There should be zero tolerance on butt throwers. They are the scourge of Ireland.


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## S.L.F (15 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> At that stage you should have complained about the lack of PP and had enforcement action taken against him.



I assume this is for me.

I used to believe there are people in the council who go out and try to uphold the law regarding planning permission.

I now know this is not correct what happens is they want YOU to get the proof for them.

They will send a letter to the offender and warn them then after about 2 months they will send someone out, this is what they told me.

The reality is they send a letter out then if the offender has a good excuse eg he doesn't do it for money (in spite of the thousands he spends on advertising), then the inspector doesn't go out and visit the premises but they tell you that he does (at least that is what happened in my case).

I know this because I got talking to the enforcement inspector who told me  he had not called to the premises to inspect what was going on.

So I had to go out and get more evidence of what was going on I left leaflets with the characters name and address and what he was doing, I left details of his web sites and details of how to find him in the phone book in the business section.

You know what I was told then, I had to go out and find one of his customers and get them to sign a sworn affidavit.

You can understand why DLRCC has a dismal record on enforcement issues.

I called in one day to report a listed building had its old sash windows removed illegally and uPVC installed I was told to bring them proof and they would act.


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## bond-007 (15 Aug 2008)

Time for the ombudsman me thinks.


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## MandaC (15 Aug 2008)

As an aside from the fag butts, what is the story with all the black bags and green plastic bags that just magically appear on the roadside.  Was driving up a particular stretch in Clondalkin and every 100metres or so was a bag of rubbish, neatly tied at the top.  Some were black bags and some appeared to be the free bags you get off the bogus charity collectors.  It is an ongoing problem and I have seen it more than once. I would love to see someone depositing their bag.

Was behind a convertible car in Naas when one woman just threw her cigarette on the ground.  Beside her on the second lane was a garda jeep waiting to turn right.  Ban Garda gets out and woman told to pull in.  Dont know what happened after that.


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## danaforever (18 Aug 2008)

Elphaba said:


> Santa Claus


 
lol, (sorry)


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

Would this also include mooners? Or should they just get a slap on the wrist (because they recover the butt)?


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## Simeon (19 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> If you were a motorcyclist following behind this inconsiderate person you could get their butt in your face with possible fatal consequences.
> 
> There should be zero tolerance on butt throwers. They are the scourge of Ireland.


This is the post to which I was alluding.


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## Complainer (22 Aug 2008)

I recall that one judge had a policy of dismissing all littering prosecutions for cigarette butts unless the butt was produced in court. I doubt if there is much that dodo can do in this case. I'd guess that the polite personal confrontation may well be most effective in preventing this in the long term, i.e. make it socially unacceptable.

My brother used to hop out of his car if he saw a dumped fag end and toss it back in through the open window. Quite effective, but probably bound to end in violence at some stage when he picks the wrong person.


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## teachai (22 Aug 2008)

Complainer said:


> My brother used to hop out of his car if he saw a dumped fag end and toss it back in through the open window. Quite effective, but probably bound to end in violence at some stage when he picks the wrong person.



I have been so tempted to do this 

Or to follow the offenders home and dump all my litter in their garden. 

Basically, most smokers are litterbugs. One even refused to pick up and deposit it in a bin which was less than 2 feet away.


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