# Incorrect BER, what can I do?



## loukkcat (6 Apr 2011)

When I bought my house a year and a half ago, the BER for the house was C1. I saw the Cert before buying the house, knew it was a very good rating and was happy with it. 

Roll on to now. I got a new boiler put in and needed a new BER survey carried out to avail of the SEI grant. So, it made sense to go back to the original guy who had carried out the survey for the previous homeowner this time two years ago.

When I got the new cert back from him, my rating had gone from a C1 to a D1. He didn't give any explanation as to why this was, so I contacted him to ask why. He told me that the floor area submitted for the original cert was incorrect and so the original rating should have been D2 not C1. 

This seems nuts to me. He carried out the original survey so it was obviously his fault. He is not accepting any responsibility. 

Should I/ can I do anything about this? I haven't replied to him yet. 

OK, I would have bought the house anyway, but that is beside the point. There is a huge difference between a C1 and a D2 Cert. From living in the house and seeing the amount of heat loss there is, I knew it couldn't be as energy efficient as it was supposed to be. 

The whole thing just seems really dodgy and suspicious. 

Any advice????


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## mradaly01 (6 Apr 2011)

Hi,
Not too sure what can be done.. on the seai web site, there is a number regarding BER ratings.... they might be able to guide you..

_>>> If you have any queries regarding Building Energy Rating please call:_
_1890 734237 or you can e-mail us info@ber.seai.ie_


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## Bronte (7 Apr 2011)

This is very interesting. Always wondered about the logic of the BER certs. They are a legal requirement for a purchase, so presumably you can sue for the incorrect BER because you would pay more for a house that was top rated.

For example if your engineer had done a survery and later it transpired it was incorrect you would be able to sue through the professional body of engineers for your loss in fixing the error. But for BER's, it's a whole new area so I'd be amazed if anyone has come across this issue before. 

Must say it's very shoddy practice of the BER guy to just shrug his shoulders.

As an aside, what has floor area to do with BER?


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## rockofages (7 Apr 2011)

Does it really matter that the old one was wrong? Your new one now replaces it.

It won't affect your grant afaik.


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## jpeast (7 Apr 2011)

Well i think it does matter.

Something similar happend us when buying our first home. estate agent told us b3. we put in offer based on this and when our solictor called to tell my OH that it was an E, he wasnt best pleased to say the least!!

We did ring agent after and reduced our offer again because of the work required to bring up to reasonable level and it was accepted.

Surely you should be compensated for incorrect cert but thats just my opinon


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## rockofages (7 Apr 2011)

Sorry, I thought it was from the SEAI grant angle, which like I said I don't think will matter.

As regards compensation etc. If the assessor accepted liability then he would be accepting that he would be liable for amends. He's not accepting liability so the the only route is through court.

Amends could be money or he could dryline the house and get it up to a C1.


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## bren1916 (7 Apr 2011)

Every Registered assessor will have a number and traceable through the SEAI so contact them firstly about your issue/complaint.
The assessor ought also have PI insurance so you could always go down (or threaten to) that route.
I would definitely follow this up regarding his attitude alone!


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## loukkcat (7 Apr 2011)

> If you have any queries regarding Building Energy Rating please call:
> 1890 734237 or you can e-mail us info@ber.seai.ie



Thanks a million. I will give them a call. 



> It won't affect your grant afaik.


No, it won't affect the grand, so I'm grand in that regard. 



> Surely you should be compensated for incorrect cert but thats just my opinon


I'm not sure what I should be compensated for. Yeah, my heating bill has been a lot more than I thought it would be. I put it down to the rough winters, but now I realise that it's because the house is not as energy efficient as I was led to believe. To go through the courts and all of that is not a route I would like to take, I don't even know what I want or think of the whole situation really, just that it smells a bit rotten to me. 



> As an aside, what has floor area to do with BER?


I have no idea. 

Here's what he said in his email to me 


> When preparing the new BER cert it transpired that the original floor area submitted for the original cert was incorrect in that the total floor area of the house was shown for both the ground and first floors thus almost doubling the size of the house


I love his use of the third party "it transpired" "when submitted", when it was he himself did all the work. 

I will ring the SEAI and let you know how I get on. 

Thanks.


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## LM26 (7 Apr 2011)

loukkcat said:


> He told me that the floor area submitted for the original cert was incorrect and so the original rating should have been D2 not C1.


 
Who is he saying submitted the area for the first cert & who took the area for the 2nd Cert? How can the assessor be sure the latest area is correct?


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## loukkcat (7 Apr 2011)

LM26 said:


> Who is he saying submitted the area for the first cert & who took the area for the 2nd Cert? How can the assessor be sure the latest area is correct?


He would submitted it himself. But in the email he sent me he is not using first person at all. 

I just rang the SEAI, and he had also been onto them about this, so they knew about it. It's brand new territory for them. Said there is not much they can do, but to put it all in writing in a letter to their head office. But other than that, it's up to me to go down a legal route if I wish.

I doubt it would be worth this route...what do people think? I am really mad over it though.


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## rockofages (7 Apr 2011)

If you bought the house on the understanding that it was a C1, then I would assume that as your contract was with the vendor that there's the first place to start. It would be up to them to pursue the BER Assessor in turn.

Regards floor space, a lot of factors are taken into consideration when calculating the BER, including the size of the property.


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## mradaly01 (7 Apr 2011)

Hi,

Seems to be worrying the BER assessor aswell as s/he has already contacted SEAI. I understand your reluctance to go down the legal route BUT for the moment you should record EVERYTHING & I mean everything... emails / phone calls - who with, what time/date & persons name (full name if possible), what was discussed. Just document everything. If you do nothing with it, then no loss. But if you do decide to go down the legal route or prove something to BER / SEAI, for whatever reason, you have all the details at hand.

Make sure you follow up with SEAI aswell, don't let them brush your concerns "under the carpet". 

Please let us know how you get on... breaking new ground here with this


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## jpeast (7 Apr 2011)

5k we took off orginal offer.

Had friend who was assessor and he reckoned it would cost 3-4k to bring house up to grade we were first told.

IMO you should price how much it would cost to get it to org cert and go from there if it is worth it.

This possibly smells like extra money to assessor for giving better cert than it should have got @ selling time


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## dahamsta (7 Apr 2011)

Is there some sort of professional indemnity insurance required for being a BER assessor? I presume some sort of professional qualification is involved.

You'd be laying new ground in court if you took that route, in that values would have to be apportioned to the extra you paid for the house based on the BER value, plus the extra you've spent on heating and possibly the amount you've spent on upgrades.

I'm not a lawyer so I can only express an unprofessional opinion, but it seems pretty likely to me you'd win. The question would be whether you'd be taking the BER guy or the association he's signed up with to court, or both, or one via the other. I'd ask for a free consultation with a solicitor if I was you. I certainly wouldn't let it lie.


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## Leo (7 Apr 2011)

I'd imagine your recourse, as others have pointed out, would be with the vendor. You had no contract with their assessor. 
Leo


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## loukkcat (8 Apr 2011)

Leo said:


> I'd imagine your recourse, as others have pointed out, would be with the vendor. You had no contract with their assessor.
> Leo



Yeah, I would imagine you are right. I only looked to get the same assessor out of convenience (thinking it would be a quicker/ easier job as he'd done it two years ago). I think I'll give my solicitor a shout and see what she has to say. I wouldn't like to put the guy out of business over what could have been a simple clerical error, but at the same time as jpeast pointed out 





> This possibly smells like extra money to assessor for giving better cert than it should have got @ selling time


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## CBGB (11 Apr 2011)

The legal requirement is for anyone selling a house to have the BER. The selling agent offers to get it done for the seller but it is still the sellers responsbility. 
I would report the assessor to SEAI if he has a bad attitude. If he did the original he should do you a better price for the follow up one. 
In relation to the affect of area on the BER, the measurement is of the (amount of energy used) / unit area so that the value can be compared across all sizes of property. If they used too large area then the result would be falsely small. 
I recently got a follow up BER done and spotted a load of mistakes. I called the assessor and mentioned SEAI reporting and he went through the calculation in detail with me. He had used incorrect default window values and some other things. If you made the changes it wouldnt have changed the rating so I didnt get too much in a huff.


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