# National Speed Limit - Solution



## TwoWheels (11 Feb 2009)

Ok, so we all know the maximum speed limit within Ireland is 120Kmh.
Therefore there should never be a car travelling over this speed on Irish roads.

We know the technology is there to limit engines to a certain speed, (All coaches & trucks have this limiter installed already)

So why not limit every private car witha speed limiter set at 120Kmh.
This will reduce deaths & reduce accidents. Why do we need high powered cars capibale of 300Kmh + as unless they are on a private track, they should never do this.

Or is it just another way of making money with speeding fines ?


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## baldyman27 (11 Feb 2009)

Presumably its safer to have the ability to go above the speed limit when overtaking, for example. If there's someone in front doing 90k, it would still take a long time to pass them out by doing 100k. Maybe limit them to 150 or 160k. Ministerial cars exempt, naturally!


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## AlbacoreA (11 Feb 2009)

Its would be very unpopular. Thats why. 

Also the problem isn't speed. Its dangerous driving. If it was purely speed the motorways would be the most dangrous roads and they aren't. The only way it would work would be if you had a GPS that limited the speed everywhere based on limits AND driving conditions at that time. Still won't stop people making geniune mistakes and/or delberate bad driving. Also no system is perfect.


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## gebbel (11 Feb 2009)

It is worth noting that the recommended speed of the German autobahn is 130 km/h (81 mph), but there is no general speed limit. I agree with AlbacoreA about dangerous driving (as opposed to speeding) and would not agree with any "speed limiter" on our cars.


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## sse (11 Feb 2009)

Whilst the autobahns have, in theory, no speed limits you should bear in mind that if you are involved in an accident above the general 130km/h limit or the reduced dynamic limit in rain or fog you will be held at least partially responsible as a matter of course. Your insurance may not pay out on your claim.

A personal view is that it won't be long before speed limiters are widespread in cars with, for example, punitive insurance rates if you choose not to have one. Given the abysmal nature of much driving in Ireland this can't come too soon in many ways.

SSE


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## mik_da_man (12 Feb 2009)

If anyone introduces this I'm leaving
And I know of a good few others that will follow.

As mentioned above the problem is dangerous driving - not a max speed.
Most accidents happen on Local roads which have a limit of 80 km/hr
Puting a limit of 120/130 on cars will not keep people within the limits on these roads.

So what next? A GPS based system that changes car speed based on what road it's on?
Or how about we build little rails on the road and attach the cars to them so they cannot hit a ditch or be on the wrong side of the road.
Then we'll all follow each other around like sheep at the same speed on the roads??...


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## thedaras (12 Feb 2009)

I know there are several causes of accidents,but one that I thought may be a runner,although very difficult to implement.
Get rid of any music in young drivers cars!
Yes I know its an odd one,but honestly when I see young drivers booting around the place,they always have music blaring and I think it encourages them to speed.
The reason I think this is the case is that,I read a report about supermarkets a while back and aparently they use music to alter the customers shopping,I understand that fast music  makes people move/shop faster,and if the music is slow they are more inclined to saunter.Ive listened when in my local supermarket and I do think the slower the music the more relaxed I am,and therfore the longer I will stay.
How to implement this would be the question.
Does anyone agree that it has an effect on driving,I know when I drive and have fast /loud music on ,I definitly go faster..


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

Not me! I have loud music on, but am well able to control my speed. Do you get influenced so easily a lot?! Voices from the tv!? Music doesn't control you - you do.


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## briancbyrne (12 Feb 2009)

thedaras said:


> I know there are several causes of accidents,but one that I thought may be a runner,although very difficult to implement.
> Get rid of any music in young drivers cars!
> Yes I know its an odd one,but honestly when I see young drivers booting around the place,they always have music blaring and I think it encourages them to speed.
> The reason I think this is the case is that,I read a report about supermarkets a while back and aparently they use music to alter the customers shopping,I understand that fast music makes people move/shop faster,and if the music is slow they are more inclined to saunter.Ive listened when in my local supermarket and I do think the slower the music the more relaxed I am,and therfore the longer I will stay.
> ...


 
I see dead people..........................


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## sparkeee (12 Feb 2009)

The problem is speed and dangerous driving they go hand in hand,the great drivers who break the speed limits are only great drivers in their own minds.People who drive within the speed limits think of the fast great drivers as total idiots.These are the fools in the ditches,crashed into each other on motorways and killing children in urban areas.


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## Caveat (12 Feb 2009)

TwoWheels said:


> So why not limit every private car witha speed limiter set at 120Kmh.
> This will reduce deaths & reduce accidents. Why do we need high powered cars capibale of 300Kmh + as unless they are on a private track, they should never do this.


 
Because cars with high bhp & torque are also capable of very fast acceleration. 

A Honda Civic type R driver doing close to 250 kph is obviously illegal on Irish roads, but there is nothing to stop him accelerating from 0 -100kph in 8 seconds or so. People are allowed to accelerate very quickly - but generally you need high powered cars for that.


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## sparkeee (12 Feb 2009)

why would you need to accelerate so fast?


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

TwoWheels said:


> Ok, so we all know the maximum speed limit within Ireland is 120Kmh.
> Therefore there should never be a car travelling over this speed on Irish roads.
> 
> We know the technology is there to limit engines to a certain speed, (All coaches & trucks have this limiter installed already)
> ...


 
But an crash can happen at much lower speeds. The amount of people killed on back roads is just crazy. Very few on motorways and national roads. 

Driving training is the key for me.


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## Caveat (12 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> why would you need to accelerate so fast?


 
Who knows? Not me, but you are allowed to is my only point - there is no law against it.


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

Caveat said:


> Who knows? Not me, but you are allowed to is my only point - there is no law against it.


 
True, i used to have a golf and the touque in it was amazing. In second and third it was as fast as anything on the road. Yet at top speed it wasn't considered fast.


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## mik_da_man (12 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> why would you need to accelerate so fast?


 
To get away....

It's enjoyable - do you like driving?


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## Chocks away (12 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> why would you need to accelerate so fast?


A few weeks back I was overtaking at about 60mph. The car behind me moved into my space. The car I was overtaking decided to put the foot down while the car coming against me was closing in. I was able to accelerate out of trouble. For me, a car with a bit of poke is important. Both for what I mentioned and for passing out a slow moving vehicle on a road with few long stretches.


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

To try and outrun the cops?


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

Smashbox said:


> To try and outrun the cops?


 
outrun, have you seen the state of some of them. I'd outhop them !


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

Haha


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## sse (12 Feb 2009)

Chocks away said:


> A few weeks back I was overtaking at about 60mph. The car behind me moved into my space. The car I was overtaking decided to put the foot down while the car coming against me was closing in. I was able to accelerate out of trouble. For me, a car with a bit of poke is important. Both for what I mentioned and for passing out a slow moving vehicle on a road with few long stretches.


 
.....not sure that proves anything other than that it wasn't safe for you to overtake in the first place. You may want to think about what would have happened if your engine started to fail at this point as you had no return route. Higher engine power can be used to reduce time exposed to danger but shouldn't be relied upon. The number of people I see doing this kind of manoeuvre on the N25 Rosslare road just off the ferry is frightening.

Personally I don't think the higher-powered Evos etc. are the major problem - although I don't see the point in paying that much money for power you'll never use - as they are often far more capable than their drivers and are chock-full of driver aids. The real menaces are the souped-up rotboxes owned by the baseball cap brigade - how many times do you see a news item where three "innocent angels" from a small village have been killed and the pictures reveal the cheap mismatched alloys, plastic "aerodynamic" Halfords tack-ons and inevitable Lexus lights on a 99 Saxo.

SSE


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## AlbacoreA (12 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> why would you need to accelerate so fast?


 
Off the top of my head. Its very handly to pull out into and merge with fast moving traffic. Its also useful to minimise the time taken to overtake. Especially if its a large object, like a truck or something with a big trailer.

TBH you see a lot of poor drivers of all ages. Mothers with kids, Exec's, white vans, granddad on a sunday drive, bullies in 4x4, Luxury saloons, merc, bmw etc.


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## CCOVICH (12 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> why would you need to accelerate so fast?


 
To get away from the Traffic Corps of course.


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

Get away, just shout......look what behinds you and then just hide !!


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## TwoWheels (12 Feb 2009)

Limiting the engine to 120Kmh would not restrict the accelleration, as long as you were not trying to go faster than 120Kmh.

I have yet to see any reasonable reply to the following question;

Why does anyone need a car that can go faster than 120Kmh ?

It's like giving everyone who wants one a loaded gun, as long as they promise not to use it.


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## Rigoletto (12 Feb 2009)

limiting the speed of a car to 120kph will not stop eejits driving at 120kph in 30kph zones. it will not stop people trying to do 120kph on a bend (any monkey can drive flat out on a straight stretch of road) 

its not a solution at all i am afraid. 

by the way there are alot of high performance vehicles in Ireland now, i have never seen a lambo, ferrari, jaguar or aston martin mangled on the front of our national newspapers, its always underpowered cars driven by people with no idea of the limitations of their vehicle (note: if your car has 100bhp it is not a ferrari!). 

the speed limit is archaic, it heralds from a time when cars and roads were not as good/advanced as they are now.


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## Caveat (12 Feb 2009)

TwoWheels said:


> Limiting the engine to 120Kmh would not restrict the accelleration, as long as you were not trying to go faster than 120Kmh.
> 
> I have yet to see any reasonable reply to the following question;
> 
> ...


 
I don't speed - I never have and I never would - I don't own a powerful car but for me the matter would be one of principle.  

If I happened to want to buy a high performance car with all that goes with it, I would strongly object to the governement interfering with the functions of my own, perefectly legal vehicle - and I'm sure many others would too.


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## CCOVICH (12 Feb 2009)

TwoWheels said:


> It's like giving everyone who wants one a loaded gun, as long as they promise not to use it.


 
As long as you have a licence, it's legal to have a gun in this country.


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

If i wanted to take my car on a track day what would be the point of a 120km limited car ??

I have the equipment to rape.....should it be removed in case i do ??


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

Ron, yeah, it should be lopped off.... 

I'll do it if ya want...


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

Oh an offer over the net..............


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

You know I'm about an hour from Laois. I could bring a large knife and some alcohol with me. Wouldn't be sore at all!

Ahem.... back on topic, I think from most posts you can deduct that some kind of speed inhibitor won't work.


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## sse (12 Feb 2009)

These arguments have been done to death all over the world.

I'd expect that any speed limiting will be insurance/market-led rather than through legislation - what government would even try to bring it in?

Many UK company cars/vans are now fitted with speed limiters, tampering with them means summary dismissal. It is easy to see a situation whereby an insurance discount is offered if a customer has one fitted. If it is tampered with or not in use when an accident occurs then the insurance company will not pay out, just as now with drink/drugs. It won't be long before the car makers start to fit them as switchable standard equipment.
If you want to buy a 300BHP car that does 155MPH then that's fine. If you crash it with the limiter off you'll be in the mire, just as you are on a track day.

BTW - there is already a speed-recording device in virtually all cars.

As regards the blanket limit it's true that these were often set in the days of cross-ply tyres and drum brakes but *very few* cars. Given the inexorable rise in traffic since it's true that they are an anachronism, but are set too high for many circumstances. Variable speed limits are the way forward.

SSE


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## Ron Burgundy (12 Feb 2009)

Smashbox said:


> You know I'm about an hour from Laois. I could bring a large knife and some alcohol with me. Wouldn't be sore at all!
> 
> Ahem.... back on topic, I think from most posts you can deduct that some kind of speed inhibitor won't work.


 
If its Bison vodka i might be interested.


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## AlbacoreA (12 Feb 2009)

In Japan cars used to be limited to 280 hp (since removed because they found no relationship between speed and road fatalities) and are limited to 180km/h. The latest GT-R has a limiter that knows when its at a race track (via GPS) and only allows higher speeds there. 

[broken link removed]
http://www.caradvice.com.au/8998/2008-nissan-gt-r-speed-limiter-gps-enabled/

Of course theres always people who hack these things. Trucks and buses, I think often have speed limiters, and theres been trials in europe of a car limiters. 

[broken link removed]


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## AlbacoreA (12 Feb 2009)

As a motorist I'd hate it, but as a cyclist I think it would be great. Not so much around town, where traffic limits speed itself. But on suburban streets and estates where I think speeding is the most dangerous.


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

Ron Burgundy said:


> If its Bison vodka i might be interested.


 
I may have a bottle or five stashed away


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## thedaras (12 Feb 2009)

Smashbox said:


> Not me! I have loud music on, but am well able to control my speed. Do you get influenced so easily a lot?! Voices from the tv!? Music doesn't control you - you do.


 I am under the influence a lot!!


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## Smashbox (12 Feb 2009)

thedaras.. whats your name and address so we can report you to the gardai?! 

You got anything good that you can share with the group? I wouldnt mind being under the influence a bit..


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## allthedoyles (12 Feb 2009)

Chocks away said:


> the car coming against me was closing in. I was able to accelerate out of trouble. .


 

I think this is a very valid point......A limiter on cars could become responsible for even more deaths on the road .

Just REDUCE your speed when necessary and drive according to conditions .

What some people don't seem to understand , is that if the speed limit says ' 80kmh '  one DON'T have to actually '' do what it says on the tin '' !


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## sparkeee (13 Feb 2009)

Chocks away said:


> A few weeks back I was overtaking at about 60mph. The car behind me moved into my space. The car I was overtaking decided to put the foot down while the car coming against me was closing in. I was able to accelerate out of trouble. For me, a car with a bit of poke is important. Both for what I mentioned and for passing out a slow moving vehicle on a road with few long stretches.


  fantastic feeling as you clip that other vehicle and hurtle into space,i bet all of you were speeding.


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## sparkeee (13 Feb 2009)

Caveat said:


> I don't speed - I never have and I never would - I don't own a powerful car but for me the matter would be one of principle.
> 
> If I happened to want to buy a high performance car with all that goes with it, I would strongly object to the governement interfering with the functions of my own, perefectly legal vehicle - and I'm sure many others would too.


 how about a handgun


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## Caveat (13 Feb 2009)

sparkeee said:


> how about a handgun



 What are you talking about?

It is not legal for me to own a handgun (never mind a loaded one) if that's what you're saying.

It is legal for me to own a 500+ bhp car capable of 300+ kph.

That's the difference.


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## Frank (14 Feb 2009)

I think this says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ft9bTgxio


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## mik_da_man (16 Feb 2009)

Caveat said:


> It is not legal for me to own a handgun (never mind a loaded one) if that's what you're saying.
> 
> 
> > If you have a licence it is....


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## Caveat (16 Feb 2009)

mik_da_man said:


> Caveat said:
> 
> 
> > It is not legal for me to own a handgun (never mind a loaded one) if that's what you're saying.
> ...


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## mik_da_man (16 Feb 2009)

Yep - it sure is.


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## Caveat (16 Feb 2009)

Fair enough - not the point though.  This tangent all started from:



> It's like giving everyone who wants one a loaded gun, as long as they promise not to use it.


 
...which is obviously a melodramatic and inaccurate comparison.


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## ollie323 (16 Feb 2009)

I'd be wary of further invasion of privacy with regards to electronic monitoring equipment in my car. This is just the thin end of the wedge and we are going to see more of this in the future. Remember the tracker system the insurance companies trialled a few years ago? Thats what it was, a trial. 
Re: speeding, i don't. I have slowed down a lot in the last few years and now arrive at work relaxed and only a few minutes more than if i was gunning it and overtaking all the time. My commute is 50km. Other benefits of slowing down include: less wear on tires clutches brakes etc, less fuel burned (5.5L/100k down to 3.5L/100k), more money saved all round! And i can avoid accidents much easier. It makes complete sense and i will never go back to the bad old days constantly watching for the guards and worrying if i'm speeding or not. 

ollie


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