# Are adults who won't learn to drive a nuisance?



## liaconn (9 Jul 2012)

Do you think there's an age after which people really should be able to drive? Years ago it was different, but nowadays its very difficult to get around without a car. If you can't drive you end up putting other people out all the time as they have to give you lifts, or putting an extra burden on siblings where elderly parents are no longer able to drive much and need to be brought to appointments, shopping etc.

Obviously not everyone can afford to run a car and some people have medical conditions which preclude them from driving. But, in general, I think people should learn to drive in their twenties or before if at all possible.


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## terrontress (9 Jul 2012)

Yeah, it just vastly reduces your ability to function.

I think that there should be some element of mandatory driving instruction in schools, both theory and practical, and one driving test at the end of that without cost to the pupil.

The majority of people should have a full driving license by the time they turn 18 because so many full-time jobs require an element of driving, whether it is on the road completely, moving between business locations or going to meet clients / suppliers.


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## Kine (9 Jul 2012)

I'd prefer if they go those who currently drive to learn the rules of the road properly!


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## markpb (9 Jul 2012)

terrontress said:


> The majority of people should have a full driving license by the time they turn 18 because so many full-time jobs require an element of driving, whether it is on the road completely, moving between business locations or going to meet clients / suppliers.



The vast, vast majority of jobs require you to get to an office or shop and sit there for eight hours before going home - they absolutely do not require a car.


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## Knuttell (9 Jul 2012)

markpb said:


> The vast, vast majority of jobs require you to get to an office or shop and sit there for eight hours before going home - they absolutely do not require a car.



Limiting your choice of employment to those Jobs that are within reach of a decent public transport system.


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## markpb (9 Jul 2012)

Knuttell said:


> Limiting your choice of employment to those Jobs that are within reach of a decent public transport system.



Perhaps but that's a choice people need to make when they're choosing a place of residence or employment. If you decide not to do that, you're free to drive assuming there is a decent route (ie no congestion) and parking (ie not most city centre offices, no IFSC offices and not all Sandyford/Citywest offices).


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## Knuttell (9 Jul 2012)

markpb said:


> Perhaps but that's a choice people need to make when they're choosing a place of residence or employment. If you decide not to do that, you're free to drive assuming there is a decent route (ie no congestion) and parking (ie not most city centre offices, no IFSC offices and not all Sandyford/Citywest offices).



I would never let a job dictate where I live,as long as its no more than 45 mins away I will happily drive there,I also agree with the OP that those who choose not to drive saddle others with their choice.


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## Sunny (9 Jul 2012)

Knuttell said:


> I also agree with the OP that those who choose not to drive saddle others with their choice.


 
How? Say no to a lift if they bother you that much. I know plenty of people don't drive either because they choose not to have a car or because they never bothered to learn. They survive on their own two feet perfectly well without always looking for lifts.


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## truthseeker (9 Jul 2012)

I dont mind adults who dont have a car. But I do mind adults who never learned how to drive. It just seems lazy.


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## mandelbrot (9 Jul 2012)

Bicycle?!


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## liaconn (9 Jul 2012)

Sunny said:


> How? Say no to a lift if they bother you that much. I know plenty of people don't drive either because they choose not to have a car or because they never bothered to learn. They survive on their own two feet perfectly well without always looking for lifts.


 

You often feel obliged to offer lifts, though, even when you're not asked directly for one. Also, it means in family situations someone else always has to drive an elderly parent to an appointment or to a family celebration and the non-drivers never have to take time off work for this, or be the designated driver who can't have a drink and has to leave early to take their mother or father home etc.


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## Knuttell (9 Jul 2012)

Sunny said:


> How? Say no to a lift if they bother you that much.



Personally I wouldn't put up with it,I have a sister in law who has to ferry her husband everywhere,there is no sharing of responsibility,she has to drop the kids to school,collect them,bring them to training/ballet/violin lessons,if they go out for a meal,she cannot drink,yet he can drink himself silly if he wants.
My own sister is so lazy my father (generous to a fault) bought her a car in order to stop her pestering my mother for lifts here there and everywhere.
The Car was sold a few years ago,she never took one lesson,despite my entreaties my Mother is still ferrying her about.

These people are just users,simple as that and a long as their are suckers out there who enable them in this behaviour,they will continue on not bothering to learn how to drive.

While it would be unfair to call everyone who cannot drive past the age of 21 lazy,its not far off the mark either.


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## Purple (9 Jul 2012)

As long as non-drivers don't expect other people to drive them around then what's the problem?
If there is an elderly parent that needs to be brought somewhere tell your non-driving sibling to get a taxi. Doing that once a month is still far cheaper than running a car.

The real issue here is selfish people. They usually display their selfishness in more ways than just expecting free transport.


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## liaconn (9 Jul 2012)

Purple said:


> As long as non-drivers don't expect other people to drive them around then what's the problem?
> If there is an elderly parent that needs to be brought somewhere *tell your non-driving sibling to get a taxi. *Doing that once a month is still far cheaper than running a car.
> 
> The real issue here is selfish people. They usually display their selfishness in more ways than just expecting free transport.


 That's not practical. If an elderly mother needs a lift up to Tesco to do some heavy shopping, or someone to drop them to Bridge or whatever, they're not going to agree to someone booking a taxi for them or paying the fare for them. They'll either not go or insist on paying the taxi fare themselves. It just smacks of the driver in the family refusing to give them a lift.


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## mandelbrot (9 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> That's not practical. If an elderly mother needs a lift up to Tesco to do some heavy shopping, or someone to drop them to Bridge or whatever, they're not going to agree to someone booking a taxi for them or paying the fare for them. They'll either not go or insist on paying the taxi fare themselves. It just smacks of the driver in the family refusing to give them a lift.


 
Bicycle Rickshaw!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_rickshaw


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## Berni (9 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> That's not practical.


But having to buy and maintain a car you don't need, just to give lifts to other people is?


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## bullbars (10 Jul 2012)

[broken link removed]

Problem solved. 
"Feel obliged" does not mean you have to. People who don't learn to drive are a pest. The are never shy telling you how much they save not having a car and how people have cars and don't need them. That's what buses and taxi's are for. You can set up an account with a local taxi firm in to drop an elderly relative off when they need it and you take care of the payments if that'll make you feel better. 
People who dont drive also slam the car doors too hard ( ok I stole that one from some comedian I can't recall, but it is true!)


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

Berni said:


> But having to buy and maintain a car you don't need, just to give lifts to other people is?


 
I didn't say you had to buy a car. If you can drive, you can drive anyone's car and share the task of driving people around, doing part of the driving on long trips etc.


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## Purple (10 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> I didn't say you had to buy a car. If you can drive, you can drive anyone's car and share the task of driving people around, doing part of the driving on long trips etc.



Yea but you still have to be insured. Open drive insurance policies are usually 3rd party for drivers not named on the policy.


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## Berni (10 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> I didn't say you had to buy a car. If you can drive, you can drive anyone's car and share the task of driving people around


But that still doesn't solve the problem of being "a nuisance" and putting people out by needing to borrow the car.


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## Kine (10 Jul 2012)

Well, it should be at least men that get forced to learn how to drive...the fewer women on the roads the better!

ZING!


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

Berni said:


> But that still doesn't solve the problem of being "a nuisance" and putting people out by needing to borrow the car.


 But you're 'less' of a nuisance than if you can't drive at all.


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## truthseeker (10 Jul 2012)

tbh I tend to think of it in emergency situations and how useful or useless a person will be.

It doesnt matter if a person has a car or insurance, in a life or death situation in a remote place Id prefer to be with someone who can drive my car to get me to assistance. Being with someone who flaps their hands at their own uselessness doesnt help when Im dying by the roadside.


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## bullbars (10 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> But you're 'less' of a nuisance than if you can't drive at all.


 
I'd contend you're more of a nuisance. Borrowing a car is a quick way to an argument.
If you cant drive, you get a taxi. They aren't difficult to organise.


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

bullbars said:


> I'd contend you're more of a nuisance. Borrowing a car is a quick way to an argument.
> If you cant drive, you get a taxi. They aren't difficult to organise.


 
It depends on the situation. I would prefer, for instance, if my sister could share the driving when we go en famille somewhere. Or if I could call her and say 'mum needs to be brought to the hospital on Tues morning. I can't get off work. Could you take my car and bring her up. Otherwise she'll have to fork out for a taxi' or whatever. In my view, even if you can't afford to run a car, being able to drive can still be helpful on occasion.


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## TarfHead (10 Jul 2012)

It's possible to be an adult, not know how, or be able, to drive, and not be a nuisance.

What is a nuisance is adults who think they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. Relying on family and friends for lifts, living at home with parents, content to expect generosity from others and rarely inclined to reciprocate.


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## Sunny (10 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> It depends on the situation. I would prefer, for instance, if my sister could share the driving when we go en famille somewhere. Or if I could call her and say 'mum needs to be brought to the hospital on Tues morning. I can't get off work. Could you take my car and bring her up. Otherwise she'll have to fork out for a taxi' or whatever. In my view, even if you can't afford to run a car, being able to drive can still be helpful on occasion.


 
There are a lot of things that can be helpful on occasion. It doesn't mean people who can't do certain things are a nuisance. People should learn to drive as it is a good life skill to have but I wouldn't call people lazy or a nuisance just because they don't have that particular skill. There are plenty of people who can't cook an omlette. There are people who don't know how to use computers. There are people who don't have mobile telephones. There are people who don't know how to do any sort of DIY. Are all these people a nuisance as well?


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

Sunny said:


> There are a lot of things that can be helpful on occasion. It doesn't mean people who can't do certain things are a nuisance. People should learn to drive as it is a good life skill to have but I wouldn't call people lazy or a nuisance just because they don't have that particular skill. There are plenty of people who can't cook an omlette. There are people who don't know how to use computers. There are people who don't have mobile telephones. There are people who don't know how to do any sort of DIY. Are all these people a nuisance as well?


 
I would definitely contend that people who refuse to learn how to use a computer or a mobile phone can make life inconvenient for other people. And I certainly think people who expect to be constantly given lifts, or for other family members to do all the driving around while they sit back, or for arrangements to constantly revolve around their lack of ability to drive impact on other people.

Out of interest, why did you throw in making an omelette??


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## Sunny (10 Jul 2012)

liaconn said:


> I would definitely contend that people who refuse to learn how to use a computer or a mobile phone can make life inconvenient for other people. And I certainly think people who expect to be constantly given lifts, or for other family members to do all the driving around while they sit back, or for arrangements to constantly revolve around their lack of ability to drive impact on other people.
> 
> Out of interest, why did you throw in making an omelette??


 
As I said, I know people who don't drive including a family member and they have never acted like that. It might have more with the particular people you know.

No reason. It is just the basic test of anyones cooking skills. (According to all those cooking shows!!). Even though, I can cook to an ok standard but my omelettes suck!!


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

Hmm. Maybe. I've just found lately, due to various family crises, that having a particular family member around who can't drive has added a bit to the pressure and hassle on some occasions. Particularly during a certain period when my mother was up and down to Tallaght hospital twice a day and another driver around the place would have made life a lot easier.


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## changes (10 Jul 2012)

They sure are pests. Especially those that work near you and expect a lift every day. It puts people out. Every time you need a day off, need to start earlier or later, need to do something after work the other person has to be told. It becomes a burden.


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## liaconn (10 Jul 2012)

changes said:


> They sure are pests. Especially those that work near you and expect a lift every day. It puts people out. Every time you need a day off, need to start earlier or later, need to do something after work the other person has to be told. It becomes a burden.


 
I know. I've never got into a car pool arrangement because of that. I'd hate to think I couldn't decide to leave early on the spur of the moment or hang on for a while to finish something.


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## SarahMc (10 Jul 2012)

I do think it's a really important life skill, particularly here in Ireland. I lived in London for years happily without a car, but after moving here it was clear I couldn't be independent without learning to drive and having a car.


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## Protocol (11 Jul 2012)

Car ownership should not be encouraged.

Outside Ghent uni you will see thousands of bikes parked, in UCD or NUI Galway one of the complaints from students is lack of car parking!!

Society should actively encourage public transport.


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## markpb (11 Jul 2012)

SarahMc said:


> I do think it's a really important life skill, particularly here in Ireland. I lived in London for years happily without a car, but after moving here it was clear I couldn't be independent without learning to drive and having a car.



It depends where you live and work in Ireland. I lived in Dublin for over ten years before I learned to drive, I just didn't need to. The only time I drive now is when I'm travelling home to Cavan with the baby (and her baggage). Oddly enough, I don't rely on lifts from people either, I use taxis for that


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## Yachtie (13 Jul 2012)

Sunny said:


> There are a lot of things that can be helpful on occasion. It doesn't mean people who can't do certain things are a nuisance. People should learn to drive as it is a good life skill to have but I wouldn't call people lazy or a nuisance just because they don't have that particular skill. There are plenty of people who can't cook an omlette. There are people who don't know how to use computers. There are people who don't have mobile telephones. There are people who don't know how to do any sort of DIY. Are all these people a nuisance as well?



Yes, they actually are. I married the one who can't cook an omlette, put a wash on or iron (all good to have life skills) and refuses to do any DIY. If he got disqualified from driving (highly unlikely, thankfully!) and I had to ferry him around all the time, I'd probably rather kill him. 

We have a distant-ish relative who is always ringing looking for a lift to all kinds of family gatherings and functions (even the ones we don't plan to attend) and then moans about how difficult it is to get back home or what a drag it is to leave early when we say that we are leaving early-ish to either relieve our baby sitter or put a young child to bed.

Also, an occasional work associate of mine claims not to be able to afford a car. However, this person is out at least two nights a week getting sloshed and takes at least three holidays a year plus a few weekends away in between. I don't begrudge them this but it starts getting rather annoying when you think of all the time and all the expensive petrol you used to ferry them around (so they wouldn't be waiting for a bus in the rain / miss the train / get to their next meeting on time / ...) only to have your car door slammed so hard that you worry about the future integrity of the hinges and not a single offer of as much as a fiver towards the petrol. I have to add that if it was offered, I'd refuse it but it's the principle, rather than money.


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## mandelbrot (13 Jul 2012)

Protocol said:


> Car ownership should not be encouraged.
> 
> Outside Ghent uni you will see thousands of bikes parked, in UCD or NUI Galway one of the complaints from students is lack of car parking!!
> 
> Society should actively encourage public transport.



Or we could just go all the way back to riding horses around the place, you only need to buy one or two, and then let nature take its course... you'll spare yourself the need of a lawnmower as well...! 

Seriously though Protocol, I see your location is the Northwest; are you telling me you expect people to cycle around the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language end of Donegal?!

The population density in Belgium is nearly 6 times that of Ireland, so I don't think you can do valid comparisons using Belgium.


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## Knuttell (14 Jul 2012)

Yachtie said:


> We have a distant-ish relative who is always ringing looking for a lift to all kinds of family gatherings and functions (even the ones we don't plan to attend) *and then moans about how difficult it is to get back home or what a drag it is to leave early *when we say that we are leaving early-ish to either relieve our baby sitter or put a young child to bed.
> 
> I don't begrudge them this *but it starts getting rather annoying when you think of all the time and all the expensive petrol you used to ferry them around (so they wouldn't be waiting for a bus in the rain / miss the train / get to their next meeting on time / ...)* only to have your car door slammed so hard that you worry about the future integrity of the hinges and not a single offer of as much as a fiver towards the petrol. I have to add that if it was offered, I'd refuse it but it's the principle, rather than money.




Sorry but you are allowing yourself to be used as a door mat,I give everyone a chance,one chance,manners cost nowt,failure to behave like a decent human being would find both these takers walking before I would enable them in their poor manners and behaviour again and while I'm at it your husband needs a good kick in the backside as well.


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## so-crates (14 Jul 2012)

truthseeker said:


> tbh I tend to think of it in emergency situations and how useful or useless a person will be.
> 
> It doesnt matter if a person has a car or insurance, in a life or death situation in a remote place Id prefer to be with someone who can drive my car to get me to assistance. Being with someone who flaps their hands at their own uselessness doesnt help when Im dying by the roadside.



Hmm, in that case I would think that obliging everyone to learn basic first aid would be FAR more useful. If they are driving you somewhere, they can't take any care of you and a car is hardly equipped to deal with emergencies. 
I would prefer they know the basics of CPR and have the sense to ring for an ambulance!! Also moving a person who has been in a road incident should always be the last option, only if you or they are in danger should it be attempted. They could have serious non-visible injuries that you could exacerbate.

The ability to drive is not a life-saver, CPR is.


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## Ceepee (14 Jul 2012)

Yachtie said:


> I married *the one* who can't cook an omlette, put a wash on or iron (all good to have life skills) and refuses to do any DIY.


 
Oh, I think there's more than one of them out there!


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## truthseeker (15 Jul 2012)

so-crates said:


> Hmm, in that case I would think that obliging everyone to learn basic first aid would be FAR more useful. If they are driving you somewhere, they can't take any care of you and a car is hardly equipped to deal with emergencies.
> I would prefer they know the basics of CPR and have the sense to ring for an ambulance!! Also moving a person who has been in a road incident should always be the last option, only if you or they are in danger should it be attempted. They could have serious non-visible injuries that you could exacerbate.
> 
> The ability to drive is not a life-saver, CPR is.



My goodness, I certainly was not thinking of someone being in a road accident. I was more thinking of someone who has just had a heart attack or stroke, where getting them to the hospital in a hurry is of paramount importance, not treating them at the scene. In that case Id rather someone knew how to drive, itd be quicker than phoning for an ambulance.

In fact, for most 'get me to the hospital in a hurry' scenarios Id rather a driver than a wait.


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## Complainer (15 Jul 2012)

truthseeker said:


> My goodness, I certainly was not thinking of someone being in a road accident. I was more thinking of someone who has just had a heart attack or stroke, where getting them to the hospital in a hurry is of paramount importance, not treating them at the scene. In that case Id rather someone knew how to drive, itd be quicker than phoning for an ambulance.
> 
> In fact, for most 'get me to the hospital in a hurry' scenarios Id rather a driver than a wait.



Bad advice. A driver won't have a defibrillator. A driver won't be able to treat a person while driving. A driver won't be trained in advanced driving skills. A driver under emotional stress will be a danger to others on the road.

Call an ambulance and wait. Better still, go do a first aid course in the meantime.


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## truthseeker (15 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> Bad advice. A driver won't have a defibrillator. A driver won't be able to treat a person while driving. A driver won't be trained in advanced driving skills. A driver under emotional stress will be a danger to others on the road.
> 
> *Call an ambulance and wait.* Better still, go do a first aid course in the meantime.



Are you mad! My original post on this specifically says remote areas. You cant even get a phone signal in the australian outback! Or on a lot of safari locations. I would take a driver over 'call an ambulance' in a remote area any day of the week.


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## terrysgirl33 (16 Jul 2012)

I grew up in the country, and unless things have changed, it takes as long for an ambulance to get to you (if they can find you, but I think GPS helps with that) as it does to get someone to hospital.


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## xeresod (16 Jul 2012)

mandelbrot said:


> Or we could just go all the way back to riding horses around the place, _*you only need to buy one or two*_, and then let nature take its course...



 You'll definitely need two 


(unless you're hoping for the next messiah to be of the equine variety!!!)


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## mandelbrot (16 Jul 2012)

xeresod said:


> You'll definitely need two
> 
> 
> (unless you're hoping for the next messiah to be of the equine variety!!!)


 
Ah but they don't both have to be mine! I only need a second one, of the correct gender, for however long that sort of procedure takes..!


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## Complainer (16 Jul 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Are you mad! My original post on this specifically says remote areas. You cant even get a phone signal in the australian outback! Or on a lot of safari locations. I would take a driver over 'call an ambulance' in a remote area any day of the week.



To be honest, I wasn't particularly thinking about the Australian outback or safari locations. I was thinking about Ireland. You don't seem to get the role and function of the ambulance service. Driving the casualty is the easy part of their job. Your driver won't be able to defibrillate, or intubate, or give drugs, or carry out CPR, or stop severe bleeding, or secure a fracture to avoid any further damage, or keep an unconscious person in the recovery position to avoid a blocked airway. 

A good paramedic will keep you alive, while getting you to hospital.


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## delgirl (17 Jul 2012)

Worse than adults who won't learn to drive are adults who do drive, own their own car, are by no means poor and are still constantly asking for lifts here and there!

I've had to distance myself from a former friend - I work full time, have children and have a house to run - she's retired, has a cleaner and a gardener and is constantly cadging lifts from anyone who has a car to go to play golf, to go to a friend's house for dinner so she can have a drink, to get to the airport for her frequent trips away, etc. etc!


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## truthseeker (17 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> To be honest, I wasn't particularly thinking about the Australian outback or safari locations. I was thinking about Ireland. *You don't seem to get the role and function of the ambulance service.* Driving the casualty is the easy part of their job. Your driver won't be able to defibrillate, or intubate, or give drugs, or carry out CPR, or stop severe bleeding, or secure a fracture to avoid any further damage, or keep an unconscious person in the recovery position to avoid a blocked airway.
> 
> A good paramedic will keep you alive, while getting you to hospital.



And you clearly missed the point I was making, nothing new there.


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## Purple (17 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> To be honest, I wasn't particularly thinking about the Australian outback or safari locations. I was thinking about Ireland. You don't seem to get the role and function of the ambulance service. Driving the casualty is the easy part of their job. Your driver won't be able to defibrillate, or intubate, or give drugs, or carry out CPR, or stop severe bleeding, or secure a fracture to avoid any further damage, or keep an unconscious person in the recovery position to avoid a blocked airway.
> 
> A good paramedic will keep you alive, while getting you to hospital.



Given that few people are trained paramedics but most people drive and given that learning to drive takes weeks and training as a paramedic takes months/years you aren't really comparing like with like there, are you?

If I was in an accident and needed a brain surgeon I would not expect a passer-by to happen to be a brain surgeon but it would be reasonable to expect that they could drive a car. Don’t you think?


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## Purple (17 Jul 2012)

truthseeker said:


> And you clearly missed the point I was making, nothing new there.



Welcome to the club


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## truthseeker (17 Jul 2012)

Purple said:


> Welcome to the club



Im weary trying to over-explain a simple point of view. Ive given up.


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## Complainer (20 Jul 2012)

truthseeker said:


> And you clearly missed the point I was making, nothing new there.



Not really. The solution is to phone for the ambulance and wait. Well-meaning and ignorant do-gooders will do more harm than good by attempting to move an injured person. Give me a good paramedic over a doctor or nurse or a driver any day.


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## gipimann (22 Jul 2012)

Hmm, interesting topic!

Reminds me of a non-driving friend who is reliant on public transport and thinks nothing of it.  However her siblings had a different take on it.

I was usually invited to their family gatherings, and, as I lived close to non-driving friend, I was able to bring her home every time.

When I moved elsewhere, and driving friend home was no longer practical, the invitations to the family gatherings stopped. 

I hadn't moved so far away to make attendance at gatherings impossible, so the only conclusion I could draw was that I'd only been invited to act as chauffeur.


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## becky (22 Jul 2012)

delgirl said:


> Worse than adults who won't learn to drive are adults who do drive, own their own car, are by no means poor and are still constantly asking for lifts here and there!
> 
> I've had to distance myself from a former friend - I work full time, have children and have a house to run - she's retired, has a cleaner and a gardener and is constantly cadging lifts from anyone who has a car to go to play golf, to go to a friend's house for dinner so she can have a drink, to get to the airport for her frequent trips away, etc. etc!



That is annoying.  Wonder why she doesn't hire a driver as well.  But if people keep bringing her, why would she.

You reminded me of a former friend.  I once offered to bring her into town so as to save on 2 cabs. She was delighted and asked another time and I was happy to oblige.  

I was going out one night and she rang earlier in the evening.  The topic of me going out later came up and I then asked for a lift.  

Her reply was, I only asked because she happened to ring me so I obviously had arrangements made.  I hadn't as I intended to ring for a taxi.  

She got no more lifts from me.  Selfish and self obsessed doesn't describe her adequately.

I think at the time she was annoyed I was going out which meant her phone call had to be cut short and she could no longer moan about whatever her moan of that day was.

We did fall out a few years later over another matter - can't actually remember what it was now, but will be happy enough to never to see her again.


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## Purple (23 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> Not really. The solution is to phone for the ambulance and wait. Well-meaning and ignorant do-gooders will do more harm than good by attempting to move an injured person. Give me a good paramedic over a doctor or nurse or a driver any day.


 When people are trapped in a car after a crash it is common for the emergency services to call out the local GP (or GP on call). Suggesting that a paramedic is a better option than an experienced doctor is just silly.





Complainer said:


> Well-meaning and ignorant do-gooders will do more harm than good


 I agree with this but it applies to socialists in general and is not specific to this discussion


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