# Is "Group Discount" a marketing ploy.



## Odea (27 Oct 2009)

Both VHI and Quinn appear to offer discounts for health insurance if you are a member of a recognised group. This could be a Credit Union, Job Related scheme, Trade Union member etc. 
However it would appear that when you make an application for Health Insurance you are given the 10% discount anyway irrespective if you are a member of one of these groups. In otherwords this so called discount doesn't really exist because everybody gets it.
Is there anybody out there getting a 20% discount or anyone out there not getting any discount?


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## NovaFlare77 (27 Oct 2009)

To a degree, the group discount is a marketing tactic, by offering a discount to members/employees of given groups, organisations, etc. It's usually offered in exchange for access to employees through leaflets, distributions, etc. I'm sure there's some historical reason the discount started, but I don't know what it is. 

The maximum discount any health insurer can offer is 10% though. The Health Insurance Acts are very clear on this, so no one can offer more.

Also, Quinn stopped offering group discounts about two years ago, so if you've seen a poster about the discount, etc, then double check it before signing anything.


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## dubrov (27 Oct 2009)

Definitely just a marketing boy. I was going to join my company group scheme which has a 10% discount but was told by the insurer not to bother as everyone gets that anyway


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## Odea (28 Oct 2009)

NovaFlare77 said:


> Also, Quinn stopped offering group discounts about two years ago, so if you've seen a poster about the discount, etc, then double check it before signing anything.


 
I have a bank account with the Ulster Bank. It's called a Ufirst Gold account. They go out of their way to advertise the fact that they offer discounted health Insurance through the Quinn Health scheme.

If this is not available then the Ulster Bank should not be advertising this fact. 


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## Scotsgirl (28 Oct 2009)

dubrov said:


> I was going to join my company group scheme which has a 10% discount but was told by the insurer not to bother as everyone gets that anyway


 
I would think that if *everyone* gets a 10% discount then it isn't a discount at all!


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## NovaFlare77 (28 Oct 2009)

Odea said:


> I have a bank account with the Ulster Bank. It's called a Ufirst Gold account. They go out of their way to advertise the fact that they offer discounted health Insurance through the Quinn Health scheme.
> 
> If this is not available then the Ulster Bank should not be advertising this fact.
> 
> ...


 
I've also seen posters and flyers in credit unions that say a discount is available but when I was checking out my brother in law's health insurance recently, Quinn told me this discount isn't applicable any more.

It may be that Ulster Bank have been able to secure the continuation of the discount, though? If you're talking to anyone in Quinn about it, let us know if it's still available. There could be a surge in ufirst accounts .


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## Odea (30 Oct 2009)

NovaFlare77 said:


> I've also seen posters and flyers in credit unions that say a discount is available but when I was checking out my brother in law's health insurance recently, Quinn told me this discount isn't applicable any more.
> 
> It may be that Ulster Bank have been able to secure the continuation of the discount, though? If you're talking to anyone in Quinn about it, let us know if it's still available. There could be a surge in ufirst accounts .


 
I contacted Quinn and the first person I spoke to knew absolutely nothing about the uFirst Gold arrangement. She even went out of her way to repeat that there were no group discounts allowed with Quinn.

I rang the Ulster Bank marketing department who insisted that there *was* such a scheme in place. They arranged for someone in Quinn to ring me.

As it turns out being a uFirst Gold customer entitles a person to avail of the Company Health Plus (No Excess) €630 scheme and the Company Health Plus (Excess) scheme.€560

These above schemes are the same as the Essential Plus No Excess (€715) scheme and The Essential Plus Excess scheme. (€642)

If you are in the VHI they are like VHI Plan B €828 or one step down from the VHI Plan B. 

The good news is that I am saving circa €170 by using my uFirst membership with Quinn on their own product and a whopping €198 against the equivalent VHI policy. For two people this is pretty substantial.

You can get details of the uFirst Gold from your local Ulster Bank. There are other benefits such as Free Travel Insurance, Free Mobile Phone Insurance, discounted hotel and restaurant prices and other bits and pieces.

There is a charge for having a uFirst Gold account so you will need to do the maths.


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## NovaFlare77 (30 Oct 2009)

Odea said:


> There is a charge for having a uFirst Gold account so you will need to do the maths.


 
Those company schemes and prices are available to everyone, so it wouldn't make sense to join just for the health insurance "discount" (that's a general comment, not aimed at Odea).

Benefit details of Company Health Plus on Quinn's website here. And the quick quote button on the right lets you price those two plans, amongst others. The prices are the same as those in Odea's post. Also open enrolment means that an insurer can't refuse to enrol someone on any of their plans (presumably with allowances for making sure that someone is getting the kind of cover they want).

All that said, I'd love to know how Ulster Bank can state that ufirst holders get a discount when they're offering prices and plans available to everyone. But, I'm in a stirring mood, so maybe I should shut up .

Odea, thanks for coming back with the info!


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## Odea (30 Oct 2009)

NovaFlare77 said:


> Those company schemes and prices are available to everyone, so it wouldn't make sense to join just for the health insurance "discount" (that's a general comment, not aimed at Odea).
> 
> Benefit details of Company Health Plus on Quinn's website here. And the quick quote button on the right lets you price those two plans, amongst others. The prices are the same as those in Odea's post. Also open enrolment means that an insurer can't refuse to enrol someone on any of their plans (presumably with allowances for making sure that someone is getting the kind of cover they want).
> 
> ...


 
I don't understand your post. You initially said that Quinn no longer do Group discounts. Now you are in agreement that they do?

You also say that these discounts with Quinn are available to everyone. Except that they are not. I was quoted the standard price as per their website when I first contacted them.

I am not in a company scheme so I could not avail of them but because I was a uFirst Gold customer I can avail of them.

Also many companies only offer their staff VHI Group discounts but not Quinn Group discounts.

How many people out there have been offered the Company Health Plus prices with Quinn when switching from a VHI *Group Plan*. I wasn't but maybe I should have been?.


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## NovaFlare77 (30 Oct 2009)

What I'm saying is that, looking at Quinn's website, you don't appear to be getting a discount. The price you gave for Company Health Plus (Excess) as a ufirst holder, is the same price that anyone can get be they u-first or not. Check the prices on the tenth page of this brochure or use the quick quote button on the Quinn website to check.

What is available to everyone (and legally must be available to everyone) is the choice of product. So anyone can join Company Health Plus; they don't have to be an employee of any company or a member of any organisation. So if I ring quinn right now and say I want to join Company Health Plus (be it with Excess or No Excess), then I can join. 

What I am saying to you, is that you're being told you're getting a discount, when realistically, you're not. You're being offered a cheaper, identical product, but it's one that is available to everyone at that price (at least according to Quinn's website and brochure). In other words, I agree with your original post about the discount being a marketing ploy, but in your case, you're not even getting a discount.


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## Odea (30 Oct 2009)

NovaFlare77 said:


> What I'm saying is that, looking at Quinn's website, you don't appear to be getting a discount. The price you gave for Company Health Plus (Excess) as a ufirst holder, is the same price that anyone can get be they u-first or not. Check the prices on the tenth page of this brochure or use the quick quote button on the Quinn website to check.
> 
> What is available to everyone (and legally must be available to everyone) is the choice of product. So anyone can join Company Health Plus; they don't have to be an employee of any company or a member of any organisation. So if I ring quinn right now and say I want to join Company Health Plus (be it with Excess or No Excess), then I can join.
> 
> What I am saying to you, is that you're being told you're getting a discount, when realistically, you're not. You're being offered a cheaper, identical product, but it's one that is available to everyone at that price (at least according to Quinn's website and brochure). In other words, I agree with your original post about the discount being a marketing ploy, but in your case, you're not even getting a discount.


 
So why would someone pay €715 for Quinn Essential Plus with no excess when they can have the exact same product called Company Health Plus no excess from Quinn for €630?

Are you saying that the Quinn staff are not offering this product or that some consumers are unaware that two identical products exist with Quinn except that the names are different and one is considerably cheaper than the other?


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## Tintagel (5 Nov 2009)

NovaFlare77 said:


> So anyone can join Company Health Plus; they don't have to be an employee of any company or a member of any organisation.


 
Are you sure about this?   The Company Health Plus is not on Quinns *Homepage* nor listed on their homepage products as far as I can see.


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## NovaFlare77 (5 Nov 2009)

Tintagel said:


> Are you sure about this? The Company Health Plus is not on Quinns *Homepage* nor listed on their homepage products as far as I can see.


 
Definitely sure. The Health Insurance Authority state the following on [broken link removed]of their website:

"Important: Company plans are available to all regardless of whether the consumer is an employee of a company or not."

It's part of the [broken link removed]provisions of the Health Insurance Acts.

Despite this though, health insurers aren't obliged to openly advertise these company plans, so it's harder to find information on them when compared to the "mainstream" plans. 

Quinn have information about their company plans here, in their For Employers section. Quinn allow you to get a price and/or join the same way as any other plan, using the buttons on the right.

Hibernian have information about most of their company and tailored plans here. However, it doesn't appear to be possible to get a quote or join on-line. From my own experience last year, they are very hesitant to give the information out unless they know exactly who is getting it (which shouldn't make any difference).

VHI are the worst of the three by only having the rule book of their Company Plans on their website, here. However, to know what each company plan covers, you need to read it in conjunction with the table of benefits for each plan, which Vhi don't have on their website. And similar to Hibernian, you can't get a quote or join on-line. In their defence thought, VHI will email this information with no fuss if you ask, but if you don't know about the plans, you're not likely to ask.

The HIA list the monthly adults costs of each of the plans, but the child or student costs aren't included which makes it harder for families for compare costs.

Sorry for the long post, but this is a pet peeve of mine. The company/tailored plans on offer can offer good value compared to the mainstream plans but it's really against the spirit of open enrolment that they are not openly promoted and marketed. I've made a complaint to the HIA about this, but their response was that they're not in a position to enforce this.


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## z101 (8 Nov 2009)

novaflare thats interesting what you have unearthed there. What is the equivilent quinn individual plan called? are there other company plans? I cant find any on their website but as I found it hard to find the one you spoke about, I could be missing it.


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## Tintagel (9 Nov 2009)

Ceatharlach said:


> novaflare thats interesting what you have unearthed there. What is the equivilent quinn individual plan called? are there other company plans? I cant find any on their website but as I found it hard to find the one you spoke about, I could be missing it.


 
Links were provided?


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## z101 (9 Nov 2009)

Not to different plans.. 

Novaflare your dead right. I got onto quinn today about this and switched from personal care to company care for a saving of €80. Not only that but the latter plan has better cover than what I was on.

There are a number of different company plans apparently which I still cant find on their website, but went through them on the phone. Due to the law any individual can avail of them.
Thanks for that!


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## NovaFlare77 (10 Nov 2009)

Ceatharlach said:


> Not to different plans..
> 
> Novaflare your dead right. I got onto quinn today about this and switched from personal care to company care for a saving of €80. Not only that but the latter plan has better cover than what I was on.
> 
> ...


 
I forgot to mention my fee of 20% of all savings. Don't worry, a blank cheque will do .

My earlier post has a link to the section of the Quinn's website that has a list of their company plans:



> Quinn have information about their company plans here, in their For Employers section. Quinn allow you to get a price and/or join the same way as any other plan, using the buttons on the right.


 
Here's the full link though, in case that doesn't work for you - http://www.quinn-healthcare.com/for_employers.htm.

As for your earlier query as to which mainstream plans are equivalent to the company plans, I wouldn't be familiar with all of the product details, but if you use the HIA's comparisons ([broken link removed]), you'll get a sense of what's similar to what. (e.g. the HIA have listed Company Health in the "Semi-private/private room in a public hospital" category, along Essential, Essential Starter, Plan A, etc).


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