# Poor Quality of "Safe Pass Course"



## Lorz (3 Jul 2006)

Quality of the Safe Pass course?  The course is far too basic to be worried about the quality!  The only people who don't pass have NO english!


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## Kerak (7 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses, millions spent for nothing*

A recent report commissioned by FAS and the HSA, was damning in its criticism of the "Fas Safe Pass" and the "CSCS" schemes.

Value for money issues
Anti EU directives
Restrictive
Limited use (death rate and serious injuries per 100k workers continues to rise)
Tutor living in fear of monitiors from fas.

One of the problems identfied in the Claritas report was, its the same course for 16 y old as it is for 50 year old specilists.

I was involved on a course where 3 Intel safety Directors where made to do the course along with the security guards, gardeners, and catering staff of many nationalities, because its mandatory. In these days of APL and CPD, their experieces counted for nothing.

I recently spoke at a Construction Conference, topic- "*Safe Pass has it worked?*", and despite a conservative estimate of 200 million been spent over 4 years, my conclusions was that it had not. I recieved long and sustained applause for standing up to Fas. 

500,000 pleople have took the Safe Pass, at 120 euro per head, plus loss of productivity and say 250000 who got a days wages for doing it as well.

 While many of you reading this are unaffected (not been construction workers) the costs have to be recovered some how, another cost to be factored in to rising cost of construction.

In my and others opionion, this money could have been better spent
Management of Safety Training
HSA budget increases
Levies on Construction to fund HSA enforcement( already there for training- ops that goes to FAs already!)


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## Lorz (7 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

Here, Here!


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## Lorz (7 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

It's interesting to note that 

Architects, Engineers and Quantity Surveyors

do *not* have to partake in FÁS Safe Pass scheme!


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## Lorz (7 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

My information tells me they don't!  Safe Pass scheme only applies to construction sites and AFAIK the above persons don't have to have a safe pass card.


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## Imperator (7 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

Anybody routinely working on a site will require a safe pass card.  This includes engineers and architects.  A visitor to a site, just carrying out a survey or making a sales pitch, probably doesn't need a safe pass, but should be signed in, escorted etc.

Imperator


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## Kerak (10 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

The construction regualtions, place on the PSCS (Project Supervisor Construction Stage) the obligation to ensure regs are complied with.

HSA advise that all on site workers have Safe Pass, Con Regs, refer specificaly to  construction workers, security and local authorty workers. But the HSA advce has to take precidence as they are the ones who would/could start procedding against the PSCS. This in part accounts for the 500,000 figure for safe Pass when CSO figures puts contruction workers at 210,000, (we seem to have 290,000  professionals in the construction industry).

I aggree that all thoses on site should have  information but an effective site induction would meet this need.

As for learning from the discussion with blue collar workers, maybe over lunch but there is no time for group discussion, debate on  a safe pass.

If a Fas moinitor arrives and the tutor is 10mins either side of the timetable, its a NC (non complience), as is using blue pen, or not having water  on tables or tick a box instead of colouring it in. Three NC's and you can be suspended! 

There where 353 tutors, less than 150 are praticing now because of FAS bull ****e and unfortuntualy , some of the best  most experienced Safety professionals are the ones who gave up or didnt renew. leaving some excellent ones but mostly  those with no construction experienced, good trainers but not experienced in active site safety.

The original  Safe pass allowed the tutor introduce 10% own material, usually photos or vid clips, not allowed on the new safe pass. Any of my courses, even four years later the candidates recall some of the pics not the words.

Reasonably practicable is the widly used term in Safety, but not in FAS

Can take 8-16 weeks for cards to come back from FAS, mine used take a solicitors letter to get them released!

I do belive there is a book in all this. Any one with info or experience feel free to PM me.


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## nelly (10 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

FAS badly manageing this training is a serious issue but i still think that a uniform training for all construction professionals is a good idea. Tool box taks and inductions vary dramatically from site to site and should not anyway be replaced by the safe pass course. 
I however did not know that FAS polices the course to such a silly extent - people on power trips....


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## Kerak (11 Jul 2006)

*Re: Safe Pass Courses*

Safe Pass should be contracted out to a commerical body to be run on commerical lines. 

Re site Inductions, check the CEF NI site of the perfect template for site inductions. 

Safety planning and safety management should be made part of construction professionals course work at 3rd level.

Safe Pass or similar should be there for those who dont get the chance to do 3rd level.

Any ways thanks for the postive replies, for so long one feels you are alone when tackling the state bodies and its nice to get the odd supportive comment


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## Cahir (11 Jul 2006)

The quality of the course is a disgrace.  The exam is an absolute joke too - 2 non-English speaking people on a course I was on managed to pass because the instructor more or less told them the answers.


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## ajapale (11 Jul 2006)

Hi Kerak,

Thank you for your contribution to the thread.

I have removed some statements from your posts which probably belong in "Letting go Steam".

Please keep this thread to the quality of the "Safe Pass Programme".

aj


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## Kerak (17 Jul 2006)

Just comimng to the end of 2 weeks in the sun, and at bar last night all the men where discussing the worlds problems and such , usually holiday chat.

Topic came on to Safe Pass, and I got an hour of how useless it was, waste of time, no value etc etc etc along with the tales of on site safety problems and the general feeling was employers did the safe pass cause they had to, and that was all they were going to do, kinda defeats the purpose. So they didnt mind short courses or cheap ones , just get it done.


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## ajapale (12 Nov 2007)

Thread closed


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