# Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report it.



## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

Being one to never miss a trick,  saw today what appears to be a funny/odd transaction in the local garage/garage shop.

Couple at the next pump to me, she gets bottle of soft drink and queues up ahead of me at the checkout. Only us in the shop.  She hands in the bottle of soft drink and says to the guy behind the counter "can I have a receipt"

Guy behind counter starts foostering about and says "how much?", to which she replies €20, can you not see (not in a rude way, but in a questioning way)  Guy behind counter starts talking down to his shoes and mumbling, no, no its not working.  Boyfriend comes in,  he had been hovering outside at the pump in a funny way, thats what made me look at him first, whispers something to the girl, nods at the guy behind the counter.  Guy behind counter goes, ah yeah, its working now.  She hands in €50 and her transaction comes to €1.75 (which was just the soft drink) and the change clocks up on screen as €48.25.  He does not give either of them a receipt.  Then they both go back to their car, put a load of petrol in it and drive off.

I saw how much was clocked up on the till, but I did not see how much change he gave back.  It was not a pre-pay pump, so why where they paying before they filled up.  Why ask for a receipt and not get one. I dont know how garage systems work, but I think the soft drink was clocked up, some cash was taken for petrol and the pump released.  I did not see how much petrol they got at the end.

Now before you go all saying, it could be nothing, etc, I worked as an area manager for 3 stores before in retail furniture and was sent out to investigate fraudulent transactions/staff discrepancies, people trying to void the tills etc, so  I am pretty clued in for stuff like this and it was in my mind a very dubious transaction.  Would you report it, or just mind your own business.   

I hate dishonesty of any kind and with the way the climate is going I would hate for staff to lose jobs, etc because of low figures while others line their pockets at the owners expense.


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## Smashbox (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

I dont really get what went on!


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## sandrat (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

sounds a bit mad alright


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## eggerb (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

I've read your post three times and still don't know what to think of this! Very weird!


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## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Yeah, it was a weird one allright.

Ok, here's the way it would have worked in retail when I was there..........it usually happened on the likes of pictures/bed linen.....but it happens in shops/garages etc.

Customer knew which was the dishonest employee.  Approached till with a load of bedlinen/pictures or whatever.  Said something like, oh, I hear you are a friend of Bernie's, or whatever they were told to say.  Dishonest employee then knew they had met dishonest customer.

Customer might have had goods totalling €250 (five or six different items).  Only 1 or two items was put into the till, but all items go into the customers bag to take away.  Say item came to €50, but customer was leaving with six items worth €250.00.  Customer hands in €100, gets a receipt for €50 and cashier keeps the €100.  Once the customer goes away, cashier removes €50, into the pocket.  Dishonest person gets €250 worth of goods for €100, cashier gets €50.   We lost thousands on it.

This looked like the same kind of thing only in a different way.

In the case of the garage, the boyfriend sent the girl  in to ask for a receipt (probably the tip off)  Guy behind counter wary and wanted to suss out whether she wanted a receipt or a "receipt".  When the boyfriend came in and gestured the guy, he knew it was a cash transaction.  So, hand in €50, clock up €1.75, but take say €21.75.  Till is €20 over.   Pump is then released and they take, say €40 of petrol.  They drive off and cashier is up €20.


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## Oilean Beag (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

She thinks the cashier allowed the couple to fill the car with petrol for €20.00 cash into his hand ? i.e. he just charged for the drink so as to look legit for CCTV.


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## Smashbox (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Oh right, I get you know. Would the levels of petrol in the stores going down quicker not be a giveaway to this kinda thing?!

Do you know the owner of the garage?


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## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

I dont really know how the petrol pumps work, so I dont know how exactly they are measured, or how you would go about disguising any discrepancies, or even if you can.  Or perhaps because of the amount of transactions that anybody even checks.  Or how often.  The way it worked in retail, there were stock checks and random till checks, but they were not audited enough to be honest.  I remember doing a stock check on the Bed Linen and we were out something like 500 Quilts!

There was another one, where a whole road got their houses carpeted cut price.

Probably ahead of their time...BOGOF before it was even invented!

I dont even know if €20 and €40 are the correct variances.  €1.75 was clocked into the till, I saw the transaction and the time,  yet they went outside (put petrol into their car) and then drove off.  Without being given their receipt which they wanted in the first place.

No, I dont know the Garage owner.  It is a reasonably new garage, part of a chain....are they frachises or what?


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## Brianne (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

It sounds iffy; a relative was defrauded of thousands by two people in his shop. Their scheme was to input say 3.99 and charge the customer the right price of 13.99. It was a store with 15 employees, the accountants copped something was wrong but it took cctv to catch them. With petrol, as far as I know, they dip the tanks but unless it's done daily I imagine it would be very difficult to pin down who's doing this. Didn't Mgt. Heffernan take fierce flak when she said that employees not shoplifters were the main culprits in her stores?
Might be worth your while to ring up and ask for the manager, and without giving your name or the employees name, just mention your concerns. That way ,if everything is kosher , well, no harm done, but if the management are tipped off then they know what to look for. I'd have no sympathy for thiefs. The min wage usually with little or no tax isn't that bad a wage; if it was , we wouldn't have had so many coming here to work, and thiefs at the end of the day hurt everyone.


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## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Sorry to hear about your relative.    No time for thieves myself.  Am pretty sure I am on the right track unfortunately.  But both customer and cashier were aware of it.  Word has probably got out to go there when say, John is on. Will probably follow up discreetly and and they can do their own audit, if they wish.    .

I would think that the pumps take a reading, which should match the tills, but because of the volume of transactions per day, you would be there till doomsday trying to do a rec, so they are not audited properly, unless suspicions are raised and a definite line is being followed.

What I used to hate when I was doing these kind of Audits was that until the thief was caught, then everyone was a suspect.  Its very hard to work with people when you know one of them was a thief.  A particularly nasty girl not only dipped the till, but dipped the other girls purses in their handbags too!  When she was caught (red handed on CCTV) but only after a fair bit of money went missing, I thought the other girls were actually going to physically attack her they were so angry.


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## MOB (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Definitely sounds fishy;  this sort of thing would be very difficult to conceal, unless there is some sort of mechanical or software glitch with the pumps - but possibly there is.   

Or perhaps the shop is very badly managed.  There is a meter reading on each pump and you are supposed to take the reading at the start and end of each shift.   When petrol is taken, it automatically goes through to the cash register.  The petrol must then be cashed off at the till before more petrol can be served (actually slightly more sophisticated-the till will queue 2 or sometimes 3 transactions per pump; but the thing is, they do sit there until cashed off -so they should show up as a till shortage).  In other words, at the till it is only possible to cash off the actual petrol served at the pump and you can't NOT cash it off, as it sits there until end of shift otherwise.   

I also have twitchy radar for till-fiddling, but in a petrol station the most likely fraud is failure to ring in non-petrol items and pocketing the cash.  

But, as I say, there may be some sort of system glitch in this station;  it sounds rather like there might well be.

I would definitely report.


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## sam h (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

I'd agree with Brianne, a call to the manager/owner or the place and let them check it out....thought the manager could be in on it also.

There was a case of a very busy pub & the owner couldn't work out why their profits were so low, so he hired a private investigator.  The PI came into the pub & watched the staff & reported back to the owner that all looked fine - the staff didn't appear to be giving out free drinks, they seemed to charge for everything, and they seemed to put all the money in one of the 5 tills....."5 tills" said the owner, "I only have 4 tills in the pub!"  The manager had put in his own till.

Similar to the OP....in the USA (many moons ago) there was a house of Irish lads living near us & oine of them worked in the local "7-11" on the graveyard shift.  His mates would come in & get loads of stuff, go to the till and be charged for just a pack of chewing gum (so the CCTV would pick up a transaction) and they'd leave with their "heist".  But the guy got lazy & waved about 3 of them out the door one night & got fired!


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## mercman (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Report them. Find out who owns the Garage -- not the Manager and make a discreet call. And if you have any doubts remember you might be a pussy cat one day yourself.


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## rmelly (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

Report it. Ultimately you'll pay more for your petrol if the owner is losing 'stock' like this.


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## Smashbox (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction in local garage - would you report it.*

I think you should report it too Manda, perhaps you could figure out if 'John' is the manager or someone high up, and try and find the owner if possible. If its a chain, you could call or email head office and they'd be able to give you the details.


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## ophelia (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Was he/she the sole sales assistant on the day? would other members of staff not have noticed what was going on and if you know the day and time of day would it not be possible (if you do report it), to watch the CCTV of the couple driving off after putting petrol in their car - hence get an ID from the number plate.


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## gebbel (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

I would report your suspicions to the manager and let him/her take it on from there. I admire your observation skills MandaC!


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## Smashbox (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

She has an eagle eye alright! Perhaps this guy was the manager though? So in this case you would have to be very careful.


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## gebbel (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



Smashbox said:


> She has an eagle eye alright! Perhaps this guy was the manager though? So in this case you would have to be very careful.



Good point.


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## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

There was only one staff member on behind the till and one behind the food section.  He must have ben acting manager.  But not really an authorative manager. From my time at Retail, I would be quite switched on to this kind of thing.   Would make a great PI!


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## Smashbox (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

I would try and find the owner in this case. Just in case your manager is the guy himself, in which case he obviously wont act on your concerns.


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## MandaC (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Will tell them the information, factually,  and let them follow up.    After all, they know their own systems and whatever pitfalls it has.   

I have the exact time and amount of their receipt and my receipt and even items, so if they are able to match till information against pump information (does every transaction log on the pump) against CCTV, so it will become clear if anything is wrong or not.  

Thanks folks.

Sometimes I feel like I am a nosey git and should just mind my own business but on the other hand if it were my business and livlihood I would like someone to alert me, even if it turned out to be nothing.


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## Hillsalt (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

A friend of mine was in a franchised fast food joint. He orders double burger and fries and Coke. He normally pays, say, €5.80 but is aked for €5 even. He notices that the serve doesn't key anything into the till. He looks at the menu and realises that he has been undercharged. 

He is good mates with the guy who owns the place and calls him on his mobile while server gets the food. He explains his suspisions. Owner is in office and monitors situation on CCTV. Customer gets his food and eats it.

Owner watches server for 30 minutes. Six out of 15 transactions are not keyed into register. On each occasion, the server accepts an even amount (usually a fiver or a tenner). At this stage, the owner realises that his till is going to be at least €60 over by closing time. The server's shift nears an end when one of his fellow countrymen comes in and orders a burger. He hands in €5 but gets a big bundle of notes in change.


Owner says nothing. He follows server home to see exactly where server  goes. Server is sharing home with _cash-rich_ customer. 


The following day, he sets up a trap with the cops who nabbed the twosome.


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## allthedoyles (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Was just on news today about 'white collar crime ' ........and even at the Green Party conference in Wexford ..................

This reminds me about my local pub............a relation of the barman asks for a pint ......he hands in a tenner.........the barman give him back .............exactly a tenner in notes and coins .


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## Smashbox (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Jeez.. I didn't realise it was so wide spread.. 

Doyles, did you do anything about it?


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## allthedoyles (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



Smashbox said:


> Doyles, did you do anything about it?


 

Nope ........did'nt get involved ........I'd reckon this type of transactions could be widespread


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## delgirl (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

It's happening everywhere - I would hate to own a retail business, unless you have incredibly tight controls, you are going to be ripped off by staff/customers.

A friend of mine, who I'm very disappointed in, told me last week that he has been 'invited' by a staff member at a posh gent's outfitters to come to the shop, try on some expensive suits to see what fits.  When he has chosen the one he wants, he gives them €50 cash and then leaves the store empty-handed.  The suit is then put in a black bin bag and left at the rear of the premises 'like rubbish' for him to collect.

The sales person is up €50 and 'my friend' walks away with a 500 Euro suit.

I would never dream of doing anything like that and am horrified that he would even consider it.  I told him I hope he gets caught!


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## MandaC (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

The people partaking in it  are just as bad as those instigating it.  Spoke to a few people about this over the weekend....phone call tomorrow.


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## Smashbox (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Let us know how ya get on Manda, would be interested to know


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## S.L.F (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



Smashbox said:


> Let us know how ya get on Manda, would be interested to know


 
Yes I'd also love to know.

It's important for these people to be caught and punished for their crimes.


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## Smashbox (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

You being smart doesnt help SLF. If you were the owner of the garage, would you not care that you are being ripped off?


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## sandrat (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

he is just trying to get his post count up smash!


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## Smashbox (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Seems like it..


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## nesbitt (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

I usually pay by laser and when I get my receipts all goods are charged for and in order. However, in the past few months was on a very tight budget to clear my credit card and so I started paying for goods/services in cash (to stop me over spending) and asking for a receipt. 

Wow the amount of dodgy receipts I got back and red faced till operators who had 'made a mistake'.... Seemingly the scam of charging for 1/2 items and pocketing the difference and not giving a receipt would (given my own recent experience) be rife.

Would I report it?  No, for personal safety reasons.....


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## S.L.F (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



Smashbox said:


> You being smart doesnt help SLF. If you were the owner of the garage, would you not care that you are being ripped off?


 
Speaking as a self employed person I detest thieves and believe people should be punished for stealing, however the reality is in this country there is very little deterant to stop people from it.



sandrat said:


> he is just trying to get his post count up smash!


 
Really dear shouldn't you be taking care of our baby.


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## MandaC (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



S.L.F said:


> Yes I'd also love to know.
> 
> It's important for these people to be caught and punished for their crimes.



If someone went in and stole €20 or €20 worth of goods from a shop and were caught, the Gardai would charge them and the shop would quite rightly prosecute.  Why should it not be as important for employees dipping till.

The mind boggles.


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## sandrat (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

any update?


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## MandaC (9 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Nah, I forgot I was not around Monday and Tuesday  (training today from 9.30-5.00 and again tomorrow, so can't really make any calls)

So am not going to get to call till Wednesday.  Will let you know that they say.


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## Caveat (13 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Any news on this Manda?


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## Smashbox (13 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

The lady she was speaking to was to get back to her either way, lets hope she knows more by today!


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## MandaC (13 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

It was Wednesday before I got to them....would think it might take some time for them to look into things.  Would not expect anything back for a week or so anyway


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## sandrat (17 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

any update on this mandac?


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## MandaC (17 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Nowt as yet!


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## Bubbly Scot (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

I work p/t in a petrol station and I can't see how this scam would work  Our tills (and any others I've seen) are linked to the petrol pumps. Someone fuels up, it registers on our till, they come and pay and we pull the sale down to the till part and take payment. If the amount due on the pump isn't paid our till would be short. Anyone on the take wouldn't want that as it's inclined to make the powers that be look closer at what is going wrong.

Maybe I'm being thick or perhaps it's a different system MandaC witnessed.


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## MandaC (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Yes, that is what I thought that it would be quite difficult to scam, but what ever happened here, they were only charged for the soft drink, that is a definite and they filled up with petrol on the the way out (it was not prepay).  and the guy behind the counter was ducking behind the counter, actually ducking down as if he was shutting off pumps or something. They paid €1.75, and drove off with petrol in their car, how they did it I dont knowl

It is very odd and I hope I hear the outcome.


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## fergief (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Awesome, that's sweet! sonnerie gratuite​


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## Smashbox (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



fergief said:


> Awesome, that's sweet! sonnerie gratuite​


 
Eh what part was sweet?!


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## DavyJones (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



Smashbox said:


> Eh what part was sweet?!




The soft drink part, maybe?


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## MandaC (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*



fergief said:


> Awesome, that's sweet! sonnerie gratuite​



Yeah, Bertie Bassets and all that.


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## Bronte (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Just a thought, maybe it was the owner/owner's son and they have a system/log book under counter to record his petrol as he doesn't have to pay?


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## sam h (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Another thought, the person might have an petrol account - normally you have to have a card or sign a book, so I'm sure you'd have noticed them doing that.


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## Smashbox (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: Witnessed odd transaction (poss fraud) in petrol station shop - would you report*

Can't wait for them to get back to Manda to solve this once and for all!


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