# Power electricity energy saver - save up to 30%



## Tones (30 Oct 2007)

i was looking at ebay at these Power Electricity Energy Savers that supposedly save 30%....any one ever use them???


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

What are they? Perhaps a link might help?


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## Tones (30 Oct 2007)

[broken link removed]

or 

[broken link removed]


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## Towger (30 Oct 2007)

I watched long adverts for a variant of these on a shopping channel while on holidays, badly dubbed from Taiwanese into English. They used a string of bulbs and a watt meter all wired up on a board to demonstrate it. It was great entertainment.  They seem to be no more than a large capacitor, so they would help regulate voltage fluctuations. But as to saving 30%... as Scotty would say “You cannot change the laws of physics.”

Towger


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## Tones (30 Oct 2007)

in other words....too good to be true? we bought a treadmill and was wondering if it used much electricity so i thought this might help us out


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## Hoagy (30 Oct 2007)

Snake Oil, plain and simple.
I'm surprised they're allowed to sell them.


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

Any use?

surge                   suppression scam


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## Tones (30 Oct 2007)

scrap that idea then!!


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

If there was a gadget that saved electricity in this way what applicances had you in mind to use it on? Bear in mind that it usually makes sense to start with the heaviest loads when looking to cut costs. The rest of that site that I linked to above contains some very useful information and energy/cost saving tips elsewhere. Even if the picture of the owner is a bit scary and the main home page liable to induce epileptic seizures!


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## HighFlier (30 Oct 2007)

The "energy savers" described do work and are in fact a power factor correction unit. These work by reducing the phasing imbalance between the voltage waveform and the current waveform caused by certain highly inductive loads such as motors etc.

They are a standard feature of most industrial electrical supply systems where they commonly save 5 to 15% of costs. Otherwise known as wattless current reducers.


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

Do you have any links to test results that support the claim that they work and save 5%, 15% or 30%?

I seem to recall there being some device that worked with refrigeration appliances and avoided them using electricity that was not required once the compressor switched on and was running. Anybody know anything about that or was I dreaming or gullible?


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## HighFlier (30 Oct 2007)

No Clubman not for this specific product. I was trying to make the point that such devices in general do work and power factor correction is a scientifically proven fact and in general these products are not voodoo or "snake oil" as some people have dismissed them as.


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## gar123 (30 Oct 2007)

thanks for that post highflier, does a 5% saving represent much ina  payback against the investment in the unit

would only 1 of these be needed for a whole house as the ebay ad states


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

HighFlier said:


> No Clubman not for this specific product. I was trying to make the point that such devices in general do work and power factor correction is a scientifically proven fact and in general these products are not voodoo or "snake oil" as some people have dismissed them as.


I meant for such gadgets in general - not this specific one. I am genuinely interested in understanding if/when such things work so any links etc. that you have would be of interest to me.

Do you think that this specific one is genuine and will yield 5%, 15% or 30% savings?


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## HighFlier (30 Oct 2007)

In reality the benifits of these devices in a domestic situation would have to be questioned as in most homes the load is largely resistive (eg incandescent lighting and heating) as opposed to inductive (motors , flourescent lighting etc). However with the average home now having more motor based gadgets than you can shake a stick at and increased use of flourescent lighting it might be worth studying.

I work in the industrial installations division of a large engineering contractor and we would never do a large installation without power factor correction units which automatically change to suit the load. As a previous poster said they are essentially large capacitors and normally correct from an uncorrected figure of approx 0.8 to up to 0.99 i.e 14% cost saving on wasted current.


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## HighFlier (30 Oct 2007)

Try www.energy-in-motion.com/PFC.html for a simple overview.

I have no connection with them but the explanation is laid out simply compared to some of the technical sites.

In reality the more I think about it with a standard domestic single phase installation and no penalty charges applied for poor power factor by the power company the actual current saving would be minimal in cost terms compared to the overall. But in the great scheme of things they save generating capacity at the power station....CO2....blah blah and all the rest so maybe their day will come!


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## Towger (30 Oct 2007)

If nothing is it entertainment : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ6lKwepA_0 The advert is cut short, you don’t get to see the step by step demo with bulbs and the American voiceover is not a good as the English dubbed version.

Here is an American product demoed : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejXFD8NJpik


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2007)

HighFlier said:


> Try www.energy-in-motion.com/PFC.html for a simple overview.
> 
> I have no connection with them but the explanation is laid out simply compared to some of the technical sites.


Thanks - will have a read of that.


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## Hoagy (30 Oct 2007)

HighFlier said:


> In reality the more I think about it with a standard domestic single phase installation and no penalty charges applied for poor power factor by the power company the actual current saving would be minimal in cost terms compared to the overall.


 
Took you a while to get there.

In fact, since domestic installations don't have wattless meters, power factor correction would result in zero savings.

In any event the unit in question is not a power factor correction capacitor, it's too small to be of any use for anything.  

So I repeat, snake oil.


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## HighFlier (1 Nov 2007)

The savings would not be zero. A motor will draw sufficient current to operate its load and if the phasing between voltage and current is improved it will draw less current. the savings in having a good power factor in an industrial situation are a combination of less PF charges by the power company and a real reduction in current consumed.


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## Hoagy (1 Nov 2007)

HighFlier said:


> The savings would not be zero. A motor will draw sufficient current to operate its load and if the phasing between voltage and current is improved it will draw less current. the savings in having a good power factor in an industrial situation are a combination of less PF charges by the power company and a real reduction in current consumed.


 

The ESB meter measures watts, not current.
Reducing current due to good pf won't affect the power consumed at all.


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## extopia (1 Nov 2007)

here's one discussion of actual user experiences:

http://bbs.lelong.com.my/bbs/showthread.php?t=16428


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## HighFlier (1 Nov 2007)

Hoagy the ESB meter measures watts for sure but uses the current to do so on the assumption that the voltage is standard..... less current equals less billing.


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## Hoagy (1 Nov 2007)

HighFlier said:


> Hoagy the ESB meter measures watts for sure but uses the current to do so on the assumption that the voltage is standard..... less current equals less billing.


 

I don't know where you got that from

The ESB meter has a voltage coil and a current coil arranged around the disc so that current _in phase_ with the voltage rotates the disc.

Out of phase current doesn't rotate the disc.


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## Copper (1 Nov 2007)

> Stabilises the supply voltage
> Saves money each month
> Reduces *5% to 30%* of electricity consumption
> Easy to use – j*ust plug it in*
> ...


 
Avoid like the plague.  If it was a power factor correction capacitor it would have to be placed in paralell with a load, i.e. to cover your house it would have to be placed at your fuseboard.  Simply plugging it into a socket is pointless.

And domestic customers aren't penalised for low P.F, the ESB is.  So its not going to save you money.  Even if you bought it thinking it would save on ESB C02 emissions, it could overcorrect and give you a leading power factor which is even worse for the ESB.

As for "stabilising the supply voltage and improving harmonics", sensitive equipment which would be affected by irregular supply waveforms already  have their own voltage regulation.  The harmonics in a house would also be negligible, unless you have >20 computers knocking about.

I'd nearly buy one just to open it up and see whats actually inside it- I suspect little more than two LED's.

Also I didn't see any reference to EN or BS standards, so you wouldn't know what you were getting.


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