# 1)Loaded premium and 2)specified illness cover declined(unexpectedly)



## NicolaM (29 Apr 2008)

Hi all
I would really appreciate some help.
I have applied for life cover, and accelerated specific illness cover. Due to a pre-existing medical condition (purely at this stage being managed by my GP, after having seen a consultant, and being referred back to my GP for follow up. I am completely well, on no medication, and have no current requirements to see a consultant as things stand), my life cover has been loaded.
The loading on my life cover is approximately 90% (I am a non smoker, so that hasn't added to premium)
Accelerated illness cover has been declined as a result of this pre-existing condition.
I am in a quandry right now. I understand the loading is based on an underwriting decision. 
I am very surprised that the accelerated illness cover has been declined, and a bit shocked, to be honest.

I have been on to my broker and discussed this, and I feel that the best thing to do is to put the cover in place (so I am covered from a life insurance prospective), and then look for alternative quotes.
However, the whole process to date has taken since February to get to this point (3 months). and each and every quote that I apply for will involve medical reports +/- a medical examination. 
My broker didn't seem to keen on this. (as it will require a good bit of extra work, and this has been going on for months.I'm not saying I agree with this obviously, but I do understand why they were not keen)
If I can get a reduced quote, this will make a large financial difference over the life of the policy.

Rather than randomly doing this, with various companies does anyone know who is good at quoting for people with pre-existing medical conditions?
My broker has suggested getting quotes and getting the paperwork in for the cheapest quoters, but the situation is completely different when there will be a loading on the policy (ie the lowest quote, may be the highest loaded quote).

I will also now have to disclose that I have been quoted on a loaded basis.

I have also applied for permanent health insurance with Friends First, and am very concerned that they will also decline cover.

Can anyone suggest what the best thing for me to do?
Any advise much appreciated

Regards
Nicola


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## shaking (29 Apr 2008)

Underwriters from different companies may view you differently. 

I work for a broker and what we normally do is multi broke ie send applications to a number of insurance companies they send all their requirements to the one doctor and you go and do the medical it means it's all taken care of in one visit. 

If you have been declined for serious illness cover and received a loaded premium it's highly unlikely FF will accept you at standard rates for PHI as the medical info for this is more stringent.

I would suggest you ask your broker to multi broke, fill in forms for alot of companies and go from there. Ideally this would have been done before you'd been loaded but it's worth a shot if it's not a major medical condition.

Hope that helps!


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## NicolaM (29 Apr 2008)

Thanks Shaking

It's a bit of a rotten position to be in.
Much appreciate your, and any other, advise

Nicola


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## Lulu123 (29 Apr 2008)

Agree with shaking, the insurance companies vary hugely. We usually multi broke also and sometimes one insurance company might not load a premium where as the other company could decline the applicant altogether. If you have done the medical most companies can now write to your doctor to get the same report so it shouldn't be too much work for your broker.  You will now have to disclose that you have been declined for serious illness on your future applications to the other companies


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## NicolaM (29 Apr 2008)

Thanks LuLu123
The odd thing is that Friends First did not actually require me to sit a medical, just to have a medical report filled. They had initially requested a medical examination, then based on the information I gave, they decided to get a doctor's report instead.
The Irish Life also just requested a medical report, once I provided extra information to them.
I really was not expecting to have serious illness cover declined,  I had thought I would have been loaded however.
I am very anxious that FF will decline to even quote for PHI, as there are not many others with the same type of policy in Ireland .
again 
Thank you
Nicola


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## Jimbobp (29 Apr 2008)

Ask your broker to apply to Caledonian life if he hasn't done so already. I've found them (in general) to have the best underwriting dept on the market. Also, he/she can ring around to the different underwriting departments and ask them what their reactions will be to your condition, this can help save time even though they might still look for medical evidence. I would still apply for PHI, but FF may place a loading or an exlclusion on the policy - better than no policy at all IMO.


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## NicolaM (29 Apr 2008)

Thanks for that Jimbobp.
Hopefully FF will get back to me shortly. I don't mind a loading, that seems fair enough once I am a higher insurance risk as per their actuaries.
With pre-existing medical conditions, I wonder if a 'one size fits all approach' is used: as I don't understand why serious illness was declined. (as I am well, do not need to attend a specialist, am not on any treatment/medication, albeit that I have a pre-existing medical condition)
I do not understand why that would exclude me for cover for other conditions: for example cancer/MS/cardiovascular disease etc.
Unfortunately, as LuLu123 said, I need to disclose my declined serious illness/loaded premium for every quote for now on. Does this greatly prejudice further quotes in anyone's experience?
Thanks again
Nicola


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## Lulu123 (29 Apr 2008)

It does slightly but you never know.I agree with Jimbobp that Caledonian have the best underwriting dept. so they will consider your case on its own merit and not just through an underwriting system which declines certain types of illnesses.  
If your broker is worth his salt he will try his hardest to get you approved. It might be a good bit of paperwork but he is getting commission for his work.
Also if your broker is established he should have other cases with the same illness and can see what insurance companies approved his other clients for serious illness cover

Hope this helps.


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## NicolaM (29 Apr 2008)

Thanks guys, will get them to suss out Caledonian.
It feels odd being 33, fairly robust, and un-insurable(ish)!


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## LDFerguson (29 Apr 2008)

Some very good advice above.  

If you're going to go down the road of trying various insurance companies, it may save you and your broker some time if you sit down and write a detailed letter with every little detail you can think of about your condition, from dates of first symptoms, through every treatment or investigation you have received and making particular reference to the fact that you have no further consultants appointments and no medication.  Sign a copy of this letter and enclose it with each application - it will save you having to repeat the same details over and over again on various application forms.  It also helps the insurance companies - the more detail they have, the easier it makes the decision-making process.  

Depending on the specific condition, you might also ask your broker to discuss with the insurers the possibility of including a clause that if you remain free of it for an agreed period, they will agree to review the loading and/or offer terms for specified serious illness cover.


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## NicolaM (30 Apr 2008)

Thanks Liam
Appreciate your advise,
Nicola


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## harvey (3 May 2008)

You should look at life cover, serious illness and PHI as 3 very different product types and all are underwritten in a different way. Without knowing what your pre existing condition is, it is difficult to direct any further in the right direction. eg back problem could mean declinature for PHI, rating or exclusion for serious illness and normal rates for life cover. SO for your own condition, think of the effect it could have on a potential claim. It must effect your life expectancy, or least an air of uncertainty for a period of time hence the loading. The prospect of payout under serious illness must be so much increased that there is a declinature or perhaps postponement for certain period of time. In relation to PHI - what are the prospects of being out of work due to the condition ?

To be honest multi broking in general sense is a waste of time and terrible waste of money. Any decent life broker armed with full medical information would be able to narrow it down by a couple of phone calls and /or emails to underwriters without having your GP earn in excess of €500 for the privilege ! Liam's post is spot on.


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## NicolaM (3 May 2008)

Thanks Harvey,
My broker is following this route.
My condition seems to be relatively benign, according to the consultant I have seen.
I have never over time (>8 years) had to miss a single day's work, as I have always been completely well. 
As it turns out, the life policy has been loaded based on a combined quote for life/serious illness together (ie, having me pay for serious illness cover that they have actually declined, as well as loading the policy on the combined cost!), so that explains the high+ quote I was given. That is going back to the insurance company, so they can load the quote correctly, purely based on the life component.

It gets more complicated however:
The most annoying thing is that I have an extensive serious illness/life insurance policy _already_ in place for 5 years. However, I had the underlying illness when I first bought the policy, but I was not aware that I had, and didn't see a consultant until 2006. This as far as I can see invalidates the original policy, due to non disclosure. It didn't occur to me that I had a problem at the time, or I would have disclosed it happily. So I am currently paying out over €300/month for a policy that may well be invalid!!
I do not feel that I can cancel this policy until others are in place, most particularly the life cover, as I have a  mortgage.
It didn't even occur to me until I organised an insurance review before Xmas (I had been abroad prior to that) that I had a non disclosed medical condition.(Sudden realisation with a sinking feeling in my chest, to put it mildly).This should of course occurred to me in 2006 when I saw a specialist, but it just didn't.
So I have an expensive (probably useless) insurance policy in place, and am trying to get alternative policies put into place.
It is completely trying.
Thanks for all your advise.
Nicola


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## agapanthus (3 May 2008)

Re your existing policy - not sure it that invalidates it, if you had never been to a doctor regarding the now existing illness how on earth could you have disclosed it, therefore how could there be non-disclosure.  You dont have to notify the company if you get illnesses during the life of the policy.    I know insurance companies are unreal they way they check these things but if there was genuinely no inkling of this condition pre applying for that policy I dont see how it could affect it.


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## NicolaM (3 May 2008)

I wonder if I should get back in touch with the old policy holders then: I was afraid of them declaring the policy void based on the new medical information, and wanted to get something else in before they did so (which, as above, is proving to be very difficult). 
I have spoken to my new broker, who has said that based on information that I had given in good faith when I originally took the policy, the policy _might_ not be invalid, but might doesn't cut it in the case of a claim..


Nicola


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## harvey (5 May 2008)

You haven't non disclosed unless you failed to declare a "material fact". If you were aware of the "material fact" or unsure as to whether it was a "material fact", the insurance company would decide whether it is relevant or not.

€300 per month ! I think you are paying excessive amount. A 35 year old female would be able to get over €800K of life/illness cover for 20 years at today's rates


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## Jimbobp (6 May 2008)

I agree with Harvey. If you did not know or hadn't attended a doctor regarding your condition, how could you have disclosed it? Go back to the original life policy provider. If the original policy is a convertible term or whole of life policy, you can change the cover to reflect your new mortgage and they won't ask for any new medical evidence, so no medical loading. I'm surprised your adviser didn't mention this.


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