# First TV Licence - 2 questions



## TTL (7 Apr 2005)

Hi All, I recently bought my first TV licence at my local post office.  When I went to write a cheque for the payment, the girl behind the counter said I should not fill in the cheque until she endorsed it.  I asked her what she meant and she said she would have to run it through a machine.  I asked if she the machine would print out the amount payable on the cheque (like some shops do) and she said no but that she must endorse the cheque.  So I gave her the blank cheque and she put it through the machine on the counter.  She then handed me back the cheque and asked me to fill it in and sign it.  (The machine did not print anything on it). I thought this was unusual.  Has this happened to anyone else, and does anyone know what exactly they do to the cheque and why they need it to be blank before they "scan" it?


My second qn:  I bought the licence on 29 March, and I assumed it would be valid for a 12 months.  When I got it  home I read on it that it "expires on 28 February 2006", so I only get 11 months out of it.  Is that correct?  Is it a case of the best time to buy your license is the 1st of the month in order to get a full 12 months before it express?


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

TTL said:
			
		

> Has this happened to anyone else, and does anyone know what exactly they do to the cheque and why they need it to be blank before they "scan" it?



Never experienced that and don't know what it's all about. Did you ask at the time?



			
				TTL said:
			
		

> My second qn: I bought the licence on 29 March, and I assumed it would be valid for a 12 months. When I got it home I read on it that it "expires on 28 February 2006", so I only get 11 months out of it. Is that correct? Is it a case of the best time to buy your license is the 1st of the month in order to get a full 12 months before it express?



Are you sure that you weren't renewing a license that should have been renewed on 28th February? I've often renewed the license in advance of the due date and they always make it valid from the imminent renewal date rather than the purchase date and then for a full twelve months. You should go back and double check this.


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## Noor77 (7 Apr 2005)

TTL said:
			
		

> My second qn: I bought the licence on 29 March, and I assumed it would be valid for a 12 months. When I got it home I read on it that it "expires on 28 February 2006", so I only get 11 months out of it. Is that correct? Is it a case of the best time to buy your license is the 1st of the month in order to get a full 12 months before it express?


 
Generally, they start the clock ticking from the date they have given you to have the licence by. For instance, when I moved in to Casa Noor (!), a TV licence guy called around and said "I know you have just moved in, so I am giving you two months to buy the licence. You should have it bought by July 31st". I didn't end up buying it until September and SO they backdated the TV licence period to the 31st of July


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## oysterman (7 Apr 2005)

That 28th Feb point rings a bell. I'm fairly sure that the system used to be (and probably still is, given the power of inertia) that the TV licence ran on a monthly basis so that if you let a licence lapse and then bought a new one you'd have to wait over a month in order to make anything out of the deal (and then you'd of course have to take out the new one in a different name to avoid it being a renewal - otherwise they'd renew from the date of the expiry of the previous one).

I have no flexibility for such shenanigans any more - I renewed by credit card about 6 or 7 years ago and they've been deducting the price of a new licence on the same date every year since. This is despite the fact that I never (I am certain of this) signed anything which could be construed as a direct debit. I mean to have a row with them every year when this automatic renewal happens....but I never quite get around to it. Has anybody else experienced this?


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## sinead76 (7 Apr 2005)

I moved into my house a year ago, never bought a TV licence and was never notified that I should get one.  I'm not stupid, I know I'm _supposed_ to get one but am reluctant walk into the post office and dob myself in when I've saved €150 odd in the last year (just over 2 months sky subscription!)  We've been meaning to get one "whenever we have the money to spare" 

Its a new house, built in a rural area and all my friends who bought houses in new estates had the inspector doing the rounds on the estates before they moved in


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

sinead76 said:
			
		

> I've saved €150 odd in the last year



I presume you meant "evaded" rather than "saved"?


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## sinead76 (7 Apr 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I presume you meant "evaded" rather than "saved"?


 
I know, I know   but as I said "when we have the money to spare"
We keep meaning to buy the stamps in the post office but whenever we go near the place the queue is out to the door


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

You have the money to spare for a _SKY _subscription but not for a _TV _license? God spongers make me sick...


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## sinead76 (7 Apr 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> You have the money to spare for a _SKY _subscription but not for a _TV _license? God spongers make me sick...


 
  I do not have a sky subscription!  I looked into it and thought €62.50 a month was a waste of money.  Hmph!  Could buy a lot of tv licence stamps with that, which I am going to, of course!  On my way to the post office right now as it happens....


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

My apologies. I inferred from your earlier post that you did have a _SKY _subscription. Spongers still make me sick though.


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## sherib (7 Apr 2005)

> I have no flexibility for such shenanigans any more - I renewed by credit card about 6 or 7 years ago and they've been deducting the price of a new licence on the same date every year since. This is despite the fact that I never (I am certain of this) signed anything which could be construed as a direct debit. I mean to have a row with them every year when this automatic renewal happens....but I never quite get around to it. Has anybody else experienced this?


 
Me too but can't remember if I signed a cc Direct Debit. Don't think so but probably paid by cc and they took it from there. Wondering if cancelling the cc would stimey them but expect there's some linking system. Never thought about this before but is cancelling a cc DD any different to cancelling one with the Bank? And what difference would it make since we'd still have to pay them? The Motor Tax Office doesn't take this liberty as they send out a renewal form with a method of payment choice. 

Off the topic but am a bit annoyed with the AA. They have a direct debit too and I've discovered that they are charging me €10 more than the amount stated on their site. Someone posted here that people joining now get home-start free for a year so am considering cancelling that direct debit and telling them why. Is that a runner? It's the overcharge bit that got to me apart from not using them for donkeys years. Direct debits give someone else automatic access to ones account and are a bit of a pain when a couple of big bills land in the same month.


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

sherib said:
			
		

> Direct debits give someone else automatic access to ones account and are a bit of a pain when a couple of big bills land in the same month.



Yeah - a few years back, during a period of unemployment, I cancelled all direct debits (with the bank and by notifying the payee) other than those that I could not easily get out of and switched to manually paying bills via online banking to regain more control over cashflow. I never bothered switching back to _DDs _because the online approach is so handy.


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## cuchulainn (7 Apr 2005)

first licences run from the Month they are purchased to the last day of the previous month. Doesn't matter what the actual date is so if are buying a first licence you should wait until the start of the next month. Good news is you dont have to buy next years licence until anytime in March. once licences are entered in the computer they expire at that date each year regardless if when you purchase. if ie you wait until June next year it will still expire in Feby. ( Dermot Ahern - signed that little bit of legislation into law during his spell in that department) they stamps are handy one a week at €5 and you soon have next years. Good news for  you is that the licence went up to €155 on 1st April so this year anyway you saved €3! if you pay by cheque they cheque is endorsed but after you fill it in. at least that's what they do with mine each August. (must start those stamps to  reduce the cheque.)


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

cuchulainn said:
			
		

> Good news is you dont have to buy next years licence until anytime in March. once licences are entered in the computer they expire at that date each year regardless if when you purchase. if ie you wait until June next year it will still expire in Feby.



This is not correct. The first TV license I bought in 1997 was valid from 23rd April 1997 to 31st March 1998. The latest one that I bought on 18th March 2005 in advance of the renewal date on 31st March 2005 is valid until 31st March 2006. Note that this license does not expire in February 2006. Unless you mean that the initial purchase date on which a person first buys a license dictates the expiry date for subsequent years as long as they keep renewing?


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## z107 (7 Apr 2005)

TV Licencing are currently running an advertising campaign on the back of busses. 'Spongers on a bus'. The advert implies that those that do not purchase a TV Licence are 'Spongers'. They do not seem to consider that not everyone owns a television.

I keep meaning to formally complain about the advert, just never get around to it. Maybe tomorrow I might .


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## ClubMan (7 Apr 2005)

Most of those TV license ads vary from really irritating/stupid to (unintentionally) mildly amusing. However, if you object to a particular advertisement then you should complain to the ASAI. You can even do it online and it only takes a few minutes once you have some basic information to hand. Obviously I was not calling everybody who does not have a _TV_ license a sponger. Just those like _Sinead76_ who have a _TV _but haven't bothered to get the required license.


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## RainyDay (8 Apr 2005)

sinead76 said:
			
		

> We keep meaning to buy the stamps in the post office but whenever we go near the place the queue is out to the door


A flimsy excuse - Haven't you heard the piles & piles of ad's telling you how you can buy your licence by phone?


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## z107 (8 Apr 2005)

Thanks for the link Clubman. That site is excellent.
I always imagined that complaining about an advert was some complicated affair. I'm now putting together my complaint.



> Obviously I was not calling everybody who does not have a _TV_ license a sponger.



Your use of the word 'sponger' reminded me of the advert, that was all. (I did read your post)


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## MonsieurBond (9 Apr 2005)

TTL said:
			
		

> Hi All, I recently bought my first TV licence at my local post office. When I went to write a cheque for the payment, the girl behind the counter said I should not fill in the cheque until she endorsed it. I asked her what she meant and she said she would have to run it through a machine. I asked if she the machine would print out the amount payable on the cheque (like some shops do) and she said no but that she must endorse the cheque. So I gave her the blank cheque and she put it through the machine on the counter. She then handed me back the cheque and asked me to fill it in and sign it. (The machine did not print anything on it). I thought this was unusual. Has this happened to anyone else, and does anyone know what exactly they do to the cheque and why they need it to be blank before they "scan" it?


 
TTL, this thread above has gone a bit off topic.
 Allow me to answer your original questions. 

The "endorsing" involves printing information on the back of the Cheque - including date and time, and the type of bill - that might be useful for An Post to track the bill in the event of it being returned unpaid.

 The endorsing should be done _after _the Cheque is signed and handed over. The teller you dealt with must have been new or inexperienced.



			
				TTL said:
			
		

> My second qn: I bought the licence on 29 March, and I assumed it would be valid for a 12 months. When I got it home I read on it that it "expires on 28 February 2006", so I only get 11 months out of it. Is that correct? Is it a case of the best time to buy your license is the 1st of the month in order to get a full 12 months before it express?


 
I was caught out by this many moons ago and since learned that new TV Licences are issued from the 1st of the month. The best time to buy a 1st time TV licence is thus the 1st of the month or very near to it. If you buy a new licence towards the end of a month, you will lose out. Better to wait until the next month, as long as you can sleep with the threat of the licence inspector returning to hassle you. 

Note that 2nd and subsequent i.e. renewal licences are dated from the expiry of the previous licence.


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## Unregistered (9 Apr 2005)

Thanks everyone for the replies!  So it seems I did lose out on buying the license a few days early...I should have waited until the 1st of April!  Pity really....you do the right thing by buying a license and they screw you out of one month's cover!!

A little background:  I have my (first) house for three years now and I never bought a TV.  (I'm not a big TV watcher).  Soon after I bought the house I got a letter telling me I must buy a TV licence if I have a TV and that the inspector will be calling soon.  I just ignored it.  Then the letters kept coming every so often.  I got a little fed up with the dire warnings of the inspector calling so I phoned the number on the letter and gave them my name and address and told them that I did not have a TV, and that as soon as i buy one I will get a licence. I asked to be taken off the mailing list as I got the message and I don't have a TV.  

The letters stopped for a little while but eventually went back to business as usual.

Recently I was given a present of a satellite system (so I could get BBC freeview) so I decided to go ahead and buy a telly!  As I had the satellite system I gathered it was "television receiving equipment" so I bought the license on 29 March (I was given the system on 28 March).  I didn't buy the TV until 2nd April.  So I got the licence BEFORE I got the TV...I'm sure that's a first!!

Ah well, we live and learn!  BTW Oysterman that's a very interesting point about the credit card direct debit!  I recall reading about this some time ago on AAM.  That's why I purposely paid by cheque when buying my licence.


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## TTL (9 Apr 2005)

D'oh..I forgot to put in my nickname...that last reply was by me TTL!!


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## tonka (9 Apr 2005)

*First TV Licence - Sky Ate My Wallet M"Lud*



			
				sinead76 said:
			
		

> I've saved €150 odd in the last year (just over 2 months sky subscription!)



Jeeeeeeez , I pay sky €0 PM for BBCs ITV C4 C5 and news stations .

Buy a used Sky box (€50-€100) and a "Yellow house Card" from Ebay : (€35-50)

see

[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan (9 Apr 2005)

Presumably you also need a dish, LNB, mounting bracket, installation, cabling etc.? 

Is there a risk with this strategy that you might get "locked out" (either via card encryption/decoding changes or analogue to digital switch) at some point?


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## tonka (11 Apr 2005)

Dish and cable and single LNB are from c.€80-c.€100 (max) Clubman, yes you need them too. 

There is a risk that the cards will get locked out as you say but this is unlikely for about another 2 years or so. 

The cost of Dish + Card + Sky Box = €250 at the very most and about €150 at least .

Assuming it works till end 2006, (thats about 20 months) its will cost from €7.50 to €12.50 a month for the UK channels . 

Even if the Card stops working you lose CH4 and ITV1 and ITV2  but still keep the all BBC and  ITV3 and S4C


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## ClubMan (11 Apr 2005)

Thanks for that info. Interesting...


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## Unregistered (13 Apr 2005)

The whole TV licence collection thing is a joke. Public service TV should be like in Oz, where ABC is funded by direct taxation, or funded by voluntary donations, as PBS is in the US.


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## z107 (13 Apr 2005)

> The whole TV licence collection thing is a joke. Public service TV should be like in Oz, where ABC is funded by direct taxation, or funded by voluntary donations, as PBS is in the US.



Not direct taxation. Not everyone owns or wants to watch TV.

Maybe it should be funded through advertising. RTE could sell some of that expensive D4 land and trim down a bit.


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## Unregistered (14 Apr 2005)

A very fair point. Also the whole place is overstaffed, you could get rid of half the office staff whilst not affecting the quality of output


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## Jock04 (14 Apr 2005)

If RTE's budget was divided by the number of homes in the country, I wonder what the licence fee would be then? Even allowing for the cost of a governing body & the fact that a very few homes wouldn't have a TV, it seems to me they're getting a lot of dosh to make Fair City & the 6.01 news.


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## Unregistered (14 Apr 2005)

Well they do produce such fine shows as "Winning Streak" to be fair....


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## Noor77 (14 Apr 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> Well they do produce such fine shows as "Winning Streak" to be fair....


 
I can't work out whether or not that was intended to be sarcastic!


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## Unregistered (16 Apr 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> This is not correct. The first TV license I bought in 1997 was valid from 23rd April 1997 to 31st March 1998. The latest one that I bought on 18th March 2005 in advance of the renewal date on 31st March 2005 is valid until 31st March 2006. Note that this license does not expire in February 2006. Unless you mean that the initial purchase date on which a person first buys a license dictates the expiry date for subsequent years as long as they keep renewing?


 was away for a wee break and only reading this now. You make my point exactly CM. When you purchase your first licence it expires on the last day of the previous month ie your bought your in april and it expired on 31st March. F


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## Unregistered (16 Apr 2005)

Keyboard acting funny.Anyway to continue   CM your licence will alway expire on 31st March regardless of when you purchase ie earlier like this year or say next year you let it go to June - will still expire on 31st March.


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## Observer (28 Apr 2005)

Just a thought - I notice my renewal now has an "account" number on it. Since when did I acquire a television licence "account?" In my case it renews each April. This seems to be a rather impertinent assumption that, just because I had a TV last year, I also have one this year and they will actually BILL me for the licence fee. Why is it not treated like, say, a dog licence, whereby the owner purchases (or should purchase!) a licence as and when required. If Fido dies, you simply do not renew - you are not billed on your "account" for the dearly departed mutt. What happens if you no longer have a TV, temporarily or permanently?


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## RainyDay (29 Apr 2005)

Observer said:
			
		

> What happens if you no longer have a TV, temporarily or permanently?


How many TV licence holders each year do you reckon get rid of the telly?


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## Unregistered (30 Apr 2005)

> How many TV licence holders each year do you reckon get rid of the telly?



More than zero. I suspect that the number is likely to rise as people choose other in-home entertainment systems, many of which might be internet based.

Tellyouvision is so last century!


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## ClubMan (30 Apr 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> More than zero. I suspect that the number is likely to rise as people choose other in-home entertainment systems, many of which might be internet based.



I would expect such systems to include a _TV _tuner card for the forseeable future in which case a _TV _license would still be required.


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## Unregistered (30 Apr 2005)

Well it's possible to stream live video (and foreign TV stations) over the internet now, so maybe no tuner card required.


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## ClubMan (30 Apr 2005)

I know but (a) I'm not sure how feasible this is on the sort of broadband connections available to most broadband users in Ireland at the moment (<= 1Mbps download/128Kbps upload) and (b) even custom computer based digital multimedia centres are likely to include a _TV _tuner for compatibility with existing broadcast standards for the forseeable future.


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## Observer (3 May 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> How many TV licence holders each year do you reckon get rid of the telly?


 
Not many, but is that the point?  I can think of many relevant circumstances apart from getting rid of the telly, eg, 2 licence holders set up home together and subsequently only require one licence.  It would seem (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the non-renewing licence holder is then regarded as being "in arrears" on his/her "account".  And my point is simply that this is an impertinent assumption which is applied in the case of no other type of licence of which I'm aware (dog, fishing, driving, pilots, firearms.)  Normally licences are renewed IF and WHEN the licence holder chooses to do so.  EG if my driving licence were to expire today, and I were out of the country for some weeks (and obviously not driving!) I can legitimately renew my licence with effect from the new date of application of my choice.  Why is the TV licence not treated similarly?


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## RainyDay (4 May 2005)

I think it makes sense to set up the normal process to accomodate the vast majority (who will need to renew each year) and accomodate the few who opt-out as exceptions, rather than vice versa.


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