# Re: For sale signs in car windows.



## RonanC (25 Jun 2007)

I was driving home from Ennis to Dublin last nite and got caught up in the traffic in Limerick after the match. A Senior looking Garda came over to my car as I was stopped in the traffic and told me that I could get a €250 on the spot fine for that. I asked for what exactly ? He told me for having the for sale signs up on my car. I am currently trying to sell my car and put up some A4 size for sale signs in the rear passenger windows. I was in shock and he told me to take them down immediately !! I said I would when I got around the corner and parked up. He then said no do it now or you will be charged and could be prosecuted up to €2500 under blah blah section of the road traffic act. 

I nearly fell out of the car at this stage. He then put his hand into my car and pulled off one of the signs and then said get the other one off now. 

What is the story here? I will be making a call to the Dep. of whoever deals with this kind of thing.


----------



## Caveat (25 Jun 2007)

Don't know if it's related Ronan but wasn't there something a while back about these signs being suspected of featuring coded references to boy racer type meetings?  If that is still suspected, I would imagine that 'performance' cars would be maybe suspicious to gardaí?

Whether the for sale sign complaint is a smokescreen for what they really believe or a genuine violation, I don't know


----------



## Towger (25 Jun 2007)

AFAIK They have been illegal to advertise a car for sale *on the side of the road* for a few years, but this is all a quick goggle can find: 

[broken link removed]

There is also a law on how much of a windscreen can be covered up.


----------



## Billo (25 Jun 2007)

"put up some A4 size for sale signs in the rear passenger windows."

I do'nt know the law but I would imagine that this would be very dangerous from a visibility point of view. 

Rgds
Billo


----------



## RonanC (25 Jun 2007)

Billo said:


> "put up some A4 size for sale signs in the rear passenger windows."
> 
> I do'nt know the law but I would imagine that this would be very dangerous from a visibility point of view.
> 
> ...


 
How can it be dangerous?? I cant really see out these windows from the drivers seat !! 

The for sale signs are not on the rear window or the front windows. Only the Side rear windows.


----------



## 900TS (25 Jun 2007)

RonanC said:


> How can it be dangerous?? I cant really see out these windows from the drivers seat !!
> 
> The for sale signs are not on the rear window or the front windows. Only the Side rear windows.


 
I'm not clear on the law with regard to putting up these signs, but even if you have broken a law you should still be treated courteously by the gardai. In these situations i believe you should remain courteous, but just ask politely for the guards ID number. That way you can make a formal complaint about his behaviour afterwards through the proper channels. I find the same thing whenever stopped by gardai - they seem to adopt a 'smart alec' attitude, which really bugs me. Lately been stopped for making an illegal left turn as the sign was turned the wrong way so it was invisible to drivers, the guard was practically calling me blind, should not be driving etc. if I couldn't read the road signs - i was raging but knew not to argue - have no problem with being caught doing somethnig wrong, but there is no need for the attitude they adopt.


----------



## tosullivan (25 Jun 2007)

I'd like to see what Road Traffic Act he was going on about.

I have sun blinds on the rear passenger windows that would probably cause as much obstruction....no law against them.


----------



## JMR (25 Jun 2007)

It is illegal to have a vehicle for sale on a public highway.

The law is often broken however, this particular Garda was probably having a bad day!


----------



## bullbars (25 Jun 2007)

The legal aspects were one issue, common courtesy & manners are a separate issue. Just because he has a uniform and a shine badge on his head doesnt give him the right to act the way he did. I think 900TS made a good point on this.


----------



## RS2K (25 Jun 2007)

I thought the for sale signs were indicators (to undesirables) of a willingness to race?


----------



## JMR (25 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> I thought the for sale signs were indicators (to undesirables) of a willingness to race?


 
Very interesting, didn't know that. Explains why a lot of boy racer looking bangers have For Sale signs in the windows


----------



## Caveat (25 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> I thought the for sale signs were indicators (to undesirables) of a willingness to race?


 
Yes. I referred to this above - there was a feature about this on The Last Word a few months back - the garda being interviewed firmly believed that this was the case.


----------



## Satanta (25 Jun 2007)

JMR said:


> Explains why a lot of boy racer looking bangers have For Sale signs in the windows


Also (possibly) explains some of the "For Sale" signs with no contact details (or price etc.) which up until now had me slightly baffled.


----------



## tigra (25 Jun 2007)

So does this mean that I must remove the sticker on my car from where I bought it? - yeah right. I wouldn't be long taking his badge number and getting on to the garda ombudsman.


----------



## ang1170 (25 Jun 2007)

JMR said:


> It is illegal to have a vehicle for sale on a public highway.
> 
> The law is often broken however, this particular Garda was probably having a bad day!


 
This sounds wrong - do you have a reference to the specific law?


----------



## scuby (25 Jun 2007)

JMR said:


> It is illegal to have a vehicle for sale on a public highway.
> 
> The law is often broken however, this particular Garda was probably having a bad day!




afaik, it was only for cars that were parked on the side of the road and at junctions etc, where they would cause an obstruction or distract drivers... but not too sure when it was being enforced from.. sounded like th guard was having a bad day...


----------



## Wee_one (25 Jun 2007)

Wonder what the position is on the for sale stickers these guys send out to users www.carsireland.ie Have seen on a few cars and their clear vinyl so I suppose they don't reduce visibility by as much as an a4 poster.


----------



## KalEl (25 Jun 2007)

tosullivan said:


> I'd like to see what Road Traffic Act he was going on about.
> 
> I have sun blinds on the rear passenger windows that would probably cause as much obstruction....no law against them.


 
Forget the law...what about common sense?
If these sun blinds cause an obstruction you're endangering yourself and others which is outrageous.


----------



## tosullivan (26 Jun 2007)

KalEl said:


> Forget the law...what about common sense?
> If these sun blinds cause an obstruction you're endangering yourself and others which is outrageous.


They don't cause an obstruction, they are on the rear passenger windows


----------



## Guest122 (26 Jun 2007)

What about vans that have no rear passenger windows at all, are these "outrageous"? Should they all be banned?

BB


----------



## ang1170 (26 Jun 2007)

KalEl said:


> Forget the law...what about common sense?
> If these sun blinds cause an obstruction you're endangering yourself and others which is outrageous.


 
If that were the case, commercial versions of cars with no rear (side) windows would be banned.

Clearly, there's no argument against putting a notice in the rear passenger window on safety grounds.


----------



## redchariot (26 Jun 2007)

You need your rear side windows to check your blindspots, when moving off, changing lanes etc.

I know that vans have no side rear windows; that is why the insurance is higher than a car; higher risk = higher premium.


----------



## ajapale (26 Jun 2007)

JMR said:


> It is illegal to have a vehicle for sale on a public highway.



I know of no such law. Perhaps you would post a link to the relevant Republic of Ireland statute?


----------



## r2d2 (26 Jun 2007)

I note the earlier comments about these signs meaning a "willingness to race"...I however heard that it is a _subtle_ way of advertising yourself as someone who might be able to supply illegal narcotics.....!!


----------



## RonanC (26 Jun 2007)

ah it gets better and better !

Its obviously gone to the stage where you cant advertise your car for sale without being accused of selling drugs or wanting to race the next young driver that pulls up beside me...


----------



## r2d2 (26 Jun 2007)

Yep...I guess so Ronan ! The other mad thing I heard recently was if you see a pair of runners hanging out of electricity or phone lines it's outside a pushers house....So whatever you do don't go throwing your runners around as well !!


----------



## ang1170 (27 Jun 2007)

redchariot said:


> You need your rear side windows to check your blindspots, when moving off, changing lanes etc.
> 
> I know that vans have no side rear windows; that is why the insurance is higher than a car; higher risk = higher premium.


 
I think higher premiums (which are based entirely on claims records, not perceived or real risk) are more to do with the way most commercial vehicles are driven....

About the only time you really miss rear windows is in reversing round corners: you don't need them for either moving off or changing lanes: that's what your mirrors are for.


----------



## ninsaga (27 Jun 2007)

ajapale said:


> I know of no such law. Perhaps you would post a link to the relevant Republic of Ireland statute?



....comming into effect in [broken link removed] on July 2nd apparently!


----------



## Yachtie (27 Jun 2007)

RonanC said:


> ah it gets better and better !
> 
> Its obviously gone to the stage where you cant advertise your car for sale without being accused of selling drugs or wanting to race the next young driver that pulls up beside me...


 
Exactly! This is ridiculous! Does the state have the right to stop you from selling your car privately? Does the state have the right to force you to sell your car through print and web advertising or only through car dealership? 

I can understand that such signs may arise some suspicion but it's the gardai's job to find out if you're really selling your car or drugs or are you trying to meet new boy-racer pals. In my mind (as I am not familiar with the law) it's ok as long as the advertisement is not obstructing the viewand hence putting the driver and the passengers in danger.


----------



## boaber (4 Oct 2007)

ang1170 said:


> This sounds wrong - do you have a reference to the specific law?





ajapale said:


> I know of no such law. Perhaps you would post a link to the relevant Republic of Ireland statute?



There was a piece on this on Prime Time on 02/10/2007.

Here's a link to the relevant Republic of Ireland statute

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1993/en/act/pub/0014/sec0071.html

They were saying that it was up to the Local Authority to enforce this.


----------



## ajapale (5 Oct 2007)

boaber said:


> http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1993/en/act/pub/0014/sec0071.html
> 
> Roads Act 1993
> *71.*—(1) ( _a_ ) Any person who, without lawful authority or the consent of a road authority—
> ...


 
Thanks boaber I wasnt aware of that law.


----------



## Crugers (5 Oct 2007)

> _(ii) erects, places or retains on a public road any caravan, vehicle or other structure or thing (whether on wheels or not) _


 
I may be splitting hairs here but:
I don't think that driving along a road can be defined as erecting, placing or retaining on a public road... (With the exception of the M50 where vehicles are 'retained' all too regularily! )


_



used for the purposes of advertising, the sale of goods, the provision of services or other similar purpose, shall be guilty of an offence.

Click to expand...

_
What about all those Dublin Bus buses who are, at present, advertising the Christmas Panto Jack and the Beanstalk and anything else for anyone who will pay...

What about all the taxis with advertisements on the roof signs...

What about Garda vehicles advertising the provision of services of the confidential phone lines...

It may be that that particular piece of legislation could be interpreted that way but I don't think that that was the intention...

I do think that the Garda must have been having a bad day, did misinterpret the intention of the 'for sale' signs, did not display much in the way of interpersonal skills and did overreact.


----------



## xt40 (5 Oct 2007)

that law seems to relate to static items parked solely for advertising purposes. i cant see how it could be applied to someone driving around with a for sale sign in their window. legally how are those signs different from the advertising  carried by 99.9% of commercial vehicles and written on the sides , back windows of many private cars. 
if a guard told me to take a for sale sign from my car , i would politely tell him to **** *** and catch some criminals.  the reality is that this would probably be unlikely to happen as i dont drive a civic/impreza or wear a baseball cap.


----------



## xt40 (5 Oct 2007)

redchariot said:


> You need your rear side windows to check your blindspots, when moving off, changing lanes etc.
> 
> I know that vans have no side rear windows; that is why the insurance is higher than a car; higher risk = higher premium.



that is completely wrong. i have a transit with no side/rear windows and shock/horror no rearview mirror . the ins co deems it to be so dangerous and undriveable that they charge me  a whopping 50% LESS than i pay for my smaller engined car.


----------

