# Anyone ever successfully appealed a fixed charge offence? and if so how do you do it?



## sands (15 Jun 2011)

Just wondering if anyone has ever successfully appealed a fixed charge offence? and how do you do it.

I received a penalty notice for doing 68kph in a 60kph zone... 

I think €80 and 2 penalty points is excessive ...considering the road was a dual carraigeway that leads off the m50 and has no paths or other roads leading on or off it... 

I would almost be happy to pay the €80 and learn my lesson but I object to 2 penalty points because my driving was not dangerous under the circumstances.

I am a careful driver and have never had an accident nor a speeding ticket in the 20+ years I have been driving.

so can you appeal or do you have to just suck it up. What are the effects of getting 2 penalty points, will my insurance increase?


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## Mucker Man (15 Jun 2011)

Are you disputing your speed or the severity of the fine?
If you appeal in court and lose, it's 4 penalty point and an increased fine.


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## sands (15 Jun 2011)

the severity of the fine for the speed that I was doing I guess...68kph on a dual carraigeway... but I could have been driving at 90kph or even 120kph on the same stretch and got the same fine...

I suppose I am more concerned about the penalty points.. will they impact the cost of getting insurance?


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## Niallman (15 Jun 2011)

I got two last year and they just reduced my "No Penalty Points" discount. Theres a tiered reduction depending on the number of points you have.


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## ashambles (15 Jun 2011)

Almost zero chance of successfully appealing this, just not worth it. Not alone that but there's a slight risk of a judge humiliating you by going off on one about being more than 10% over the speed limit, with a few choice quotes for the local court reporter.

The 60kph limit is a particular favourite for speedtraps, I would guess considering the number of 60kph zones there's a disproportionate amount of fish being shot in barrels there.

People on mph speedometers have to watch these zones, using 40mph as the translation for 60kph means a fine will be on its way at some stage. Unlike 50kph and 100kph the 60kph limit is less than the speed limit it replaced.

68kph is only 42mph, so easy to be caught. 60kph is 37.3mph.


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## dahamsta (15 Jun 2011)

You don't appeal a fixed penalty, you just don't pay it and take it to court. I'm pretty sure this is clearly explained on the notice, or at least it was the last time I received one some time ago.

As has been said, 2 penalty points will affect *some *insurers, but not all. Check with your insurer.


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## turtle77 (15 Jun 2011)

as the OP says, you just have to suck it up.
Going to court would be exercising your civil right. But you'd invariably lose I suspect.

It won't affect your insurance.


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## dereko1969 (15 Jun 2011)

sands said:


> Just wondering if anyone has ever successfully appealed a fixed charge offence? and how do you do it.
> 
> I received a penalty notice for doing 68kph in a 60kph zone...
> 
> ...


 
What you're basically looking for is for the Judge to take an incorrect interpretation of the law as passed by the Oireachtas, there is no chance of this happening.

Also the penalty that you have been issued is for speeding not dangerous driving, you drove in excess of the posted limit on that stretch of road ergo you're guilty of the offense you were charged with.


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## Woodie (15 Jun 2011)

If you do go to court and loose the penalty points are set at 4. Most insurance is not effected until three points. Catch 22. 
Going to court on a 'It's a mean spirited penalty' whilst maybe reasonable to you will hold no water in the law. The law is the law and common sense often has nothing to do with it. 
I'd pay and learn. 
The argument for cameras is that they are only in place on stretches of road on which someone has been killed. That in Ireland probably means almost anywhere. The reality is that lack of common sense will only make generally law abiding people resent the law.  I know for example in UK the police will monitor on motorways the overall traffic speed and time of day and make a judgement.  If the general flow of the traffic is safe and reasonable then there is no need to penalize people unnecessarly.


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## Frank (16 Jun 2011)

Is the 4 points on losing a case definite or at the discretion of the judge. 

Perhaps the judge will appreciate the lack of fairness of unfair low speed limit on some roads with Gardai or Camera vans basically shooting fish in a Barrel as compared to actually doing anything for safety.

It will a brave punter to try it mind.


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## fago76 (17 Jun 2011)

I was in a similar quandry. I got 2 points from a garda van (70kph in a 50 zone) while driving my son to hospital, to get his face glued after a heavy fall.

If the cops had stopped me they would have escorted us to hospital. But from what I can see there's no appeals procedure/special case that can be argued. If I went to course the case was as stated so I would have been liable for 4 points.


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## tinkerbell (17 Jun 2011)

There is a small area for appealing as in fago76s case - emergency situation.   Once the signs and law are in place otherwise appealing wouldnt get you far if it just ordinary speeding.   If an emergency contact the Fixed Charge Office in Thurles and get advice from them.    If you can supply hospital details that it was in fact true that you were heading to hospital with a sick child, you have a chance of getting it cancelled.   May even be worth your will doing that now fago76?


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## Fubar (17 Jun 2011)

I appealed a number of years ago in the case of an emergency. A fixed camera tagged me on my way to hospital with mrs fubar to give birth to son. As far as i can recall i received the fine notice and then contacted the Fixed Charge Office who advised me to get a letter from the hospital/gyno giving details of birth, time, date etc. I sent this to the Fixed Charge Office who subsequently wrote back saying that fine was overturned.


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## fago76 (17 Jun 2011)

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I was not aware that this was an option. Its not generally known and there was nothing on the form to indicate this, and it didn't pop up in any searches.

I did have a receipt etc for A&E at the time.

This all happened in Sep 2009, so probably not worth the hassle of trying to get the points removed at this stage.


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## Complainer (17 Jun 2011)

fago76 said:


> I was in a similar quandry. I got 2 points from a garda van (70kph in a 50 zone) while driving my son to hospital, to get his face glued after a heavy fall.
> 
> If the cops had stopped me they would have escorted us to hospital. But from what I can see there's no appeals procedure/special case that can be argued. If I went to course the case was as stated so I would have been liable for 4 points.


Going to court IS the appeals procedure/special case.



sands said:


> the severity of the fine for the speed that I was doing I guess...68kph on a dual carraigeway... but I could have been driving at 90kph or even 120kph on the same stretch and got the same fine...


You could have been disqualified or worse for travelling at higher speeds. It's not the same fine.

Suck it up.


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## britvic55 (17 Jun 2011)

*appealing speeding fine*

Check with your solicitor re this info-- someone passed on to me regarding this issue, as im unsure of its validity-- if your Lience is endorsed with penalty poibnts by the district court it is for a 3 year period--therefore exceeding the penalty of the said district court--which is 22 months ? as i say im not sure on this just telling you what i was told,  that is if you are convicted in the district court, u can then appeal to the circuit court, but best get a professional solicitors advice on the matter.


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## ballyb100 (1 Jul 2011)

These camera vans are operated by a private company. Any company runs to make money. The company operates to make money not to improve road safety.  They operate where they will catch people i.e. make money.  It also increases the profits of Insurance companies who can rack up prices on the basis of penalty points. It's a racket like the NCT.  You have my sympathy "Sands" but you just have to pay up and take your penalty points. Joe public hit again


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## dahamsta (2 Jul 2011)

ballyb100 said:


> They operate where they will catch people i.e. make money.



As much as I dislike policing being handed over to private business, this isn't how GoSafe works, and this has been made clear about them in the media from the very start. You should do some research on how the contract operates before you comment.


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## Leo (2 Jul 2011)

It's true that they don't earn a fee per catch, but per time operating at a location. But there is a minimum performance clause and they must hit a specific number of penalties issued or lose the license.
Leo


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