# forced redundancy



## Peggyr (3 Apr 2017)

Hello, I am hoping for some advice.  My company has asked everyone to go homeworking (I work for a large UK company) as they are not renewing the lease on our premises.  This is not possible for me,  for various logical reasons.   I have advised them of this, and they say the only alternative is redundancy.  They have not yet given official notice to me about this.  I have worked there for nearly 30 years, and two years from retirement  I feel I deserve more than the statutory redundancy, which will be about EUR30,000.  I am 63 and unlikely to get another job in my type of career.  There is a pension but I am reluctant to touch it at this stage.  Do I need an employment solicitor or a Financial adviser, and what are my options.  How do I approach them about getting more than the statutory redundancy?  I am not being greedy, but sensible,  I have over three years to go before the State pension.  I also have a mortgage until I am 65.  I could pay this off with my redundancy but need a bit more income than Social Benefits?


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## Palerider (3 Apr 2017)

Wait for details of the severance package before you speak to anyone as this is key to your next step.


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## newtothis (4 Apr 2017)

Palerider said:


> Wait for details of the severance package before you speak to anyone as this is key to your next step.



I'd very much agree with this: just ask the question what would you get if you were to be made redundant. There's a chance you might be quite happy with it, in which case there's no need to go to the trouble of finding and the cost of paying someone for advice. If you aren't happy with what's proposed, I would recommend you speak to a HR specialist rather than a solicitor or financial advisor in relation to redundancy. By the way, a HR specialist could also advise on whether the circumstances amount to constructive dismissal, but best to try and avoid anything that could become confrontational if possible. As I said, ask the question on what's on offer first.


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## Peggyr (4 Apr 2017)

Thank you Palerider and newtothis.  I have already been told in  an 'informal ' manner by my manager but nothing has been given to me in writing yet from their HR department.  They are not too keen on me leaving, I am good at my job, but there is no alternative to home working which I cannot accommodate.  It is a strange situation which is why I am looking for advice here!  I don't want to really waste a lot of money on legal/financial advice if someone here can help.  If not, maybe someone can recommend names of good financial/employment/hr contacts.  They are closing the office in 8 weeks.  I don't want to get confrontational.  They are a huge company with their own legal department.


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## JoeRoberts (4 Apr 2017)

Is there history of previous redundancies and if so do you know the terms. Large companies tend to pay above statutory. 
A case to the WRC may also succeed if you can show the norm within your industry is to pay additional. A lot will depend on how strong you are in fighting for this. You would need to start making noises now and rock the boat a little. Nothing is black and white in this area.


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## dereko1969 (4 Apr 2017)

Would it be possible for you to work in shared office somewhere? Lots of places have hot-desking opportunities.

If you don't suggest alternatives to them I would doubt that a constructive dismissal case would succeed.
As others have said, wait and see the terms of redundancy and then go to a HR specialist.


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## odyssey06 (4 Apr 2017)

That's an interesting idea about hot desking... you should see if there is any allowance for home working expenses such as broadband, printing, phone costs etc that you could put towards it.


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## Peggyr (4 Apr 2017)

Thanks for your help everyone.  I have already asked about office space somewhere, and have been told it will not be possible. Our systems are sensitive to a lot of client information and has to stay intact in a safe environment.  I would not like to be responsible for it in a 'hot desk' and they would not permit it (I don't really blame them)

The only option is home working according to them.  I have no space in my flat. If it were only a laptop it would be fine.  They have made other redundancies over the years, but nobody has ever revealed  the sum they got , I assume they ask you to sign something. Its all very new to me, so I suppose first thing is to wait and see what they put in writing.  Maybe they will actually find a solution/desk or something to keep both parties happy.  I have no issues with them as a company and would not like to get confrontational, but I still worry what will happen financially over the next few years.  I have no family/partner living with me so I would prefer to stay working as I need to earn.  Anyway it is good to know it is a HR expert who is best placed to advise on the matter if and when I need to go further.

The strange thing is redundancy is supposed to be the job not the person, but they will have to replace those of us they are letting go (one other who cannot also do homeworking) so it will be interesting to see what approach they take.


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## JoeRoberts (4 Apr 2017)

Peggyr said:


> The strange thing is redundancy is supposed to be the job not the person, but they will have to replace those of us they are letting go (one other who cannot also do homeworking) so it will be interesting to see what approach they take.


True but in reality no different to the many companies who consolidate work to another town and employee has option to move or take redundancy. Job still exists.


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## Setanta12 (5 Apr 2017)

I'm not sure if this is relevant .. but think it might be.

What happens ordinarily when people retire - they just pick up their last pay-cheque for the week/month just worked?  If so, would the OP not be better off to take the redundancy ?


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## JoeRoberts (5 Apr 2017)

Setanta12 said:


> I'm not sure if this is relevant .. but think it might be.
> 
> What happens ordinarily when people retire - they just pick up their last pay-cheque for the week/month just worked?  If so, would the OP not be better off to take the redundancy ?


OP believes a new job is unlikely so presumably it and 2 yrs SW is less than their salary for the 2 missing years.


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## Setanta12 (5 Apr 2017)

I've just been schooled!  Thanks @JoeRoberts


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## Steven Barrett (5 Apr 2017)

What does your contract of employment say? You should try to find out what package people have got in the past. Are you the only person who is being made redundant after they are making everyone work from home (this strikes me as odd and would set off alarm bells if I was working there? If not, you should all negotiate a redundancy package collectively. 

What makes you think that you will only get the statutory rate? Most large companies pay over that because they have the resources to do so. 

The statutory rate is the minimum under law and unless you have something in your contract, they won't have a legal obligation to pay any more than that. 

If you are in a union, you should call them immediately. This is what they are great at. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## JoeRoberts (5 Apr 2017)

SBarrett said:


> unless you have something in your contract, they won't have a legal obligation to pay any more than that.
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie


Its not that simple, many factors to consider, precedence within the company and related companies, precedence from other companies in similar industry. But following this precedence requires letting employer know you are willing to go into confrontation mode and head for the WRC. Its not in some peoples nature to do this.


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## DB74 (6 Apr 2017)

There is an argument here that EVERY employee in the company is entitled to redundancy due to a major change to their working conditions, incl those still being kept on after the change


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## JoeRoberts (6 Apr 2017)

DB74 said:


> There is an argument here that EVERY employee in the company is entitled to redundancy due to a major change to their working conditions, incl those still being kept on after the change


Employees have the choice of the change or redundancy. Issue is the level of redundancy.


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## DB74 (6 Apr 2017)

JoeRoberts said:


> Employees have the choice of the change or redundancy.



I don't think that's true. Once contracts are signed under the new conditions, employees could be well within their rights to insist that a major change in working conditions are grounds for a redundancy payment and then the clock starts again under the new conditions, even with the same employer. And depending on the numbers of employees affected, you could also argue that it becomes a Collective Redundancy, which would be a major headache for the employer.

From Citizen's Advice http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...edundancy/redundancy/overview_redundancy.html

_"Redundancy can occur where one of the following things happen:_

_Your employer ceases to carry on business or ceases to carry on business in the place where you have been employed. (For example, if the firm moves location, this can be a substantial change in your working conditions and may therefore be a reason for redundancy. However if there is a change of ownership under the [broken link removed] legislation where employees are re-employed with no change to their working conditions then it is not a redundancy situation.)"_

It's slightly off-topic but I think if this was mentioned by the OP to the employer, the employer may prefer to pay a little bit extra to the OP in exchange for them not alerting the other employees to this fact


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## newtothis (6 Apr 2017)

I think all this speculation just re-enforces the advice to find out what any redundancy offer might be: if it's high enough and suits the OP then happy days. If not, then time to seek out an expert, and by expert I mean someone who is well versed in HR procedures.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Apr 2017)

Peggyr said:


> Thanks for your help everyone.  I have already asked about office space somewhere, and have been told it will not be possible. Our systems are sensitive to a lot of client information and has to stay intact in a safe environment.  I would not like to be responsible for it in a 'hot desk' and they would not permit it (I don't really blame them)
> 
> The only option is home working according to them.  I have no space in my flat. If it were only a laptop it would be fine. ...



From a technical point of view or even a practical one there is no difference where the computer is in terms of security. Someones home is not any more secure than an office. Probably less. 

There must be some financial reason, perhaps misguided.


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