# Problem with neighbour



## Livvy (16 Jul 2007)

Hi,

Sorry if this is not the appropriate thread but I'm looking for advice regarding a neighbour.  We live in a relatively small estate which has communal parking for houses, duplexes, apartments.  No car spaces are allocated to any house.  Its basically first come, first served.  A couple of months ago, a new neighbour moved in.  The hubbie parked in the space outside her house a couple of weeks ago, which he was entitled to do and she accosted him the next evening, asking why he had parked there and that this space was 'reserved' for her.  I then parked there a few days later and got a note left on my windscreen telling me to remove my vehicle.  I called into her house that evening to tell her that I am entitled to park there (just like other people park outside my house) and she closed the door in my face.
My husband then parked there again a couple of days later and she double parked behind him, blocking us in.

What should we do?  Should I go to the management company and complain?  Would they be able to do anything about it?  Or do we have to just put up with this behaviour and hope she lets up.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. next time we move house, a driveway is critical.

livvy


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## pc7 (16 Jul 2007)

communal parking what a nightmare! has to be the worse invention ever! really feel your pain we used to live on a terraced street and it was a nightmare for parking like you our new house fits 3 in the drive and 2 outside! its a gift especially for visitors. I don't think legally there is anything to stop you parking outside her house but it sounds pretty stressful especially if she is being so akward!


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Livvy said:


> I called into her house that evening to tell her that I am entitled to park there (just like other people park outside my house) and she closed the door in my face.


Copy/print off the relevant extract from the management company lease/rules and drop it into her.


> What should we do?  Should I go to the management company and complain?  Would they be able to do anything about it?  Or do we have to just put up with this behaviour and hope she lets up.


 Does the management company/agent have any policy on controlling parking - e.g. limits on the number of cars per houshold, clamping/towing if cars are illegally parked etc.?


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## Livvy (16 Jul 2007)

No clubman, originally when we bought the house, we were told 1.5 spaces per house, but they don't monitor it and I have never seen anyone clamped.  There are always free spaces and no-one will have that far to walk to their own house but she just insists that the one outside her door, is hers.  
When I called to her door, she asked me why I had not gone to the end of the road were there were free spaces.  I have two small children, so I'm going to try and park as near to my house as possible if I can.  

I will try and dig out the management comp. rules.

tks for the advice.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Livvy said:


> 1.5 spaces per house


Eh!?!  


> There are always free spaces and no-one will have that far to walk to their own house but she just insists that the one outside her door, is hers.


So why not just park in one of the spare spaces not outside her house and avoid the conflict?


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## Purple (16 Jul 2007)

If I was in your position and there were free spaces down the road I would avoid parking outside my neighbours house.


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## Gabriel (16 Jul 2007)

Purple said:


> If I was in your position and there were free spaces down the road I would avoid parking outside my neighbours house.



If I were you I'd buy myself an old banger for a few hundred euro and park it in the spot outside her house...and then just leave it there permanently 

But that's just me...


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## pc7 (16 Jul 2007)

he he he gabriel i like it!


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## Livvy (16 Jul 2007)

> So why not just park in one of the spare spaces not outside her house and avoid the conflict?


 
I have 2 small kids - if its lashing down with rain, why should I park further away just because the neighbour wants it left free for herself ???? 



> If I were you I'd buy myself an old banger for a few hundred euro and park it in the spot outside her house...and then just leave it there permanently


 
Thanks gabriel - very tempting


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## pc7 (16 Jul 2007)

livvy if you can put up with the hassle just go for the battle with her park there if you need to and put up with the moaning! hopefully she might tire of battling against it is there a different neighbours house you could park outside if you need too? still i blame the builders and this 1.5 lark per house! especially when most commuter famililes have 2 cars.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Livvy said:


> I have 2 small kids - if its lashing down with rain, why should I park further away just because the neighbour wants it left free for herself ????


Fair enough but given the choice between the relatively minor hassle of the kids getting a bit wet and the potentially major hassle of spending time and energy battling with a neighbour I know which one I'd choose.


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## ang1170 (16 Jul 2007)

My advice would be to try and de-escalate the situation as mush as possible: the last thing you want is ongoing conflict with a neighbour, no matter how much you think you're in the right.

Try going round again and explaining the situation: from the way you phrased your account of your first encounter, it sounds like your tone may have got her back up. Explain the situation as calmly as possible, that there are no assigned places, you'll try and avoind parking in front of her house as mush as possible, but if it's raining and you're with the kids etc. etc.

Might involve a lot of restraint, but it's preferable to starting WW III.


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## Round Tuit (16 Jul 2007)

How many cars do you have? How many cars does she have?
I too live in an estate with blocks of 8 and 8 un-allocated spaces outside each block. Our lease agreement entitles us to 1 space per apartment or duplex (there is visitors parking slightly further away). 
What annoys me in my situation is when 2 car dinkies use 2 spaces and I can't then park near my door. I don't mind it being first come first served between 8 cars, a level playing pitch - my problem is having to walk (in the rain with shopping etc, do I leave my car unlocked or my front door unlocked while I make my multiple trips etc ???) due to someone breaking the rules. Managing agents not very interested as they say it's difficult to police and I know some of our board members (residents) have 2 cars so they won't want to do much either. 
Anyway point being - if it's your 2nd car I can understand her upset, if she has a 2nd car she hasn't a leg to stand on.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Round Tuit said:


> Managing agents not very interested as they say it's difficult to police


Whatever about policing abuse of the system issuing some sort of permit (one per houshold) would at least allow abuse to be identified?


> Anyway point being - if it's your 2nd car I can understand her upset, if she has a 2nd car she hasn't a leg to stand on.


According to the original poster the original rules stated that each houshold could park 1.5 cars!


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## ang1170 (16 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> According to the original poster the original rules stated that each houshold could park 1.5 cars!


 
No, the OP said "we were told 1.5 spaces per house", which is not quite the same thing. I assume it means if there are for example 20 houses, there are 30 spaces, providing an average of 1.5 cars/house.


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## suzyann (16 Jul 2007)

I can understand her frustration - there is a general rule of thumb that you try park at your space - ie the one outside your house even though legally they are all communal - It is an invasion on her privacy also if you persist in parking in the spot outside her house - I think you need to be more courteous.


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

ang1170 said:


> No, the OP said "we were told 1.5 spaces per house", which is not quite the same thing. I assume it means if there are for example 20 houses, there are 30 spaces, providing an average of 1.5 cars/house.


Good point!


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## Gemstone (16 Jul 2007)

I live in an estate with non designated parking with a space directly outside my living room window and it is a huge invasion of privacy when a stranger parks there - however my neighbours have been very considerate of this and they leave it free for me , any one who has parked there , once we explain the problem - does the same. There is a huge problems generally within the estate over parking - several people have practically come to blows. I cant understand how planning permission is granted in the age of 2 car households, which due to the lack of public transport to many of the newer areas, is a necessity. I would echo a previous poster ..my next move will be to a house with a drive !


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## CCOVICH (16 Jul 2007)

Livvy said:


> My husband then parked there again a couple of days later and she double parked behind him, blocking us in.



Would the Gardai take any interest in this sort of scenario?

But, if your neighbour had 2 cars and parked one outside their house and one outside yours, forcing you to park further away, how would you feel?

(From what you have said, I take it that is what is happening here, i.e. you are parking one of your cars outside your house and one outside your neighbour's house, leaving them with no space in front of their house)


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> Would the Gardai take any interest in this sort of scenario?


Not in a parking issue on private property - no.


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## ang1170 (16 Jul 2007)

Maybe if they started throwing punches at eachother?

On second thoughts, not such a good sugestion.....


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## CCOVICH (17 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Not in a parking issue on private property - no.


 

I would have thought that the issue where someone blocks someone else in is obstructing someone else's property (car), being a nuisance etc. as opposed to a disagreement over who parks in what space?


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## Seagull (17 Jul 2007)

Who is parked outside your house when you are parking outside her house?


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## pc7 (17 Jul 2007)

good thinkng seagull!


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> I would have thought that the issue where someone blocks someone else in is obstructing someone else's property (car), being a nuisance etc. as opposed to a disagreement over who parks in what space?


Still would not have thought that the _Gardaí _would deal with this unless it lead to some clear cut crime being committed (e.g. assault as mentioned above!).


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## CCOVICH (17 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Still would not have thought that the _Gardaí _would deal with this unless it lead to some clear cut crime being committed (e.g. assault as mentioned above!).


 

If it was continually happening, how would it be resolved?


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

Some flexibility is needed and none seems to be evident on either side from the original poster's comments to date.


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## pc7 (17 Jul 2007)

if the management company are going to ignore it, maybe a flyer in everyones door to try get some neighbourhood meeting together to try address the problem?


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

The householders *are *(in most cases) the management company so it is within the gift of individual housholders to be proactive about if they see fit.


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## Gabriel (17 Jul 2007)

The problem really relates to the rules and planning practices of the developers - 1.5 spaces per household etc as opposed to having designated spaces and some overflow. 
This system is what we use in my estate and whilst not perfect (people can still park in your designated space) there is generally enough room for it not to come to blows.

The neighbour in question bought her house knowing the rules so I just wouldn't be arsed listening to her myself. Naturally neighbourly relations comes into play so seeking common ground on this one more time would seem to be the best way forward...but ultimately you just cannot deal with some people. And so in some cases you just shouldn't. Don't be bullied. If she blocks you in again call the management company and make an official complaint about her. Keep making those complaints everytime she steps way over the line and eventually they'll have a word with her.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

Gabriel said:


> If she blocks you in again call the management company


Do you mean the mangement agent here? After all most management companies do not have offices/staff of their own and delegate day to day stuff to an agent.


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## Gabriel (17 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Do you mean the mangement agent here? After all most management companies do not have offices/staff of their own and delegate day to day stuff to an agent.



Yes I meant the agent.


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## Purple (17 Jul 2007)

Gabriel said:


> The neighbour in question bought her house knowing the rules so I just wouldn't be arsed listening to her myself. Naturally neighbourly relations comes into play so seeking common ground on this one more time would seem to be the best way forward...but ultimately you just cannot deal with some people.


 If someone kept parking outside your house and you didn't park outside theirs would you feel the same way?


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## Thrifty1 (17 Jul 2007)

Do you have a parking space outside your home? If so why is this not kept free, if not then personally i wouldnt park outside someones elses house regardless of the management rules.
If you had a space outside your house and she had none and parked in the spot outside your house, then regardless of the rules i would imagine you wouldnt be happy.


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## aircobra19 (17 Jul 2007)

Could you park on the road in front of the space? Then you are near you house and not in the space. At least when moving stuff in and out of the car. You couldn't be blocked in then either. 



Livvy said:


> ....
> My husband then parked there again a couple of days later and she double parked behind him, blocking us in....



Whats the legality of blocking someone in?


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

Thrifty1 said:


> Do you have a parking space outside your home? If so why is this not kept free, if not then personally i wouldnt park outside someones elses house regardless of the management rules.
> If you had a space outside your house and she had none and parked in the spot outside your house, then regardless of the rules i would imagine you wouldnt be happy.


From the original poster's first few posts I assumed that they were a two car household and one of them parked outside their own home and the other outside this woman's. But it's not 100% clear that this is the case. Either way there seem to be other spare spaces most of the time so I cannot see why the original poster or her husband cannot simply use one of them and avoid the hassle.


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## Gabriel (17 Jul 2007)

Purple said:


> If someone kept parking outside your house and you didn't park outside theirs would you feel the same way?



I'm not totally heartless 

But I think we're missing the point with all of this 'space outside the house' malarky. 
When you buy a house with driveway that's your parking space. No one else can park on your driveway. 
When you buy an apartment or duplex with a designated driving space it will be clearly marked as such (number 44 etc) and that's your space and yours alone. 
When you buy somewhere that clearly doesn't have a designated space then the fact that there happens to be a space outside your house doesn't mean diddly squat.

Of course...the residents sitting down and coming to a friendly agreement on spaces is the best way forward. From the sounds of things though this woman isn't for turning.

If the OP could answer the two car question and whether the space outside their house is already occupied with their own other vehicle then we might come to some better conclusions in terms of what's fair - not legal but fair - in this instance.


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## aircobra19 (17 Jul 2007)

She basically being a bully trying to dicate her own rules in opposition to the communal policy in place. But you have to decide if the hassle of fighting is worth it. If theres always free spaces and none of them are any significant distance away, then I would say its not worth it. What goes around comes around.


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## ice (17 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Fair enough but given the choice between the relatively minor hassle of the kids getting a bit wet and the potentially major hassle of spending time and energy battling with a neighbour I know which one I'd choose.


 
Have to agree with this......sometimes its just not worth the hassle. Sometimes these things snowball and you could be faced with a long drawn out 'battle' with your neighbour.

Although she has no 'legal' right to the space outside her door, if you have 2 cars and one is already parked outside your own house then I think its not too much to ask to park in a space slightly further away. 
How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot. If she had two cars and parked the first outside her house and the second outside yours ?

I suppose it depends on how big the development is. 
Where my brother lives its a small development and everyone parks outside their own house with second car houses parking in the overflow spaces. This is more difficult if its a very large development as you don't know who's in your spot.


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## Purple (18 Jul 2007)

If the OP has two cars and her husband parks outside their house then when she brings the kids home why doesn't he park down the road and leave the spot free for her?
If they do in fact have two cars then while the neighbour is wrong from a legal standpoint I think it is the OP who is being unreasonable. Why does she think it's OK to have two spots outside her door and the neighbour to have none?


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## aircobra19 (18 Jul 2007)

What two spots? Its seems obvious that the OP only uses the neighbours spot when the ones nearest to their own house are occupied by someone else. First come first served. 

If theres always free spots maybe theres enough spaces and people should agree to mark them.


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## Livvy (18 Jul 2007)

Hi again,

Just to clarify, yes we are a two car household but a lot of the time we cannot park outside our own house because other people are parked there.  My original point was that we don't go around bullying other people who park outside our house.  We accept that these are the rules of the estate.  I don't mind having to park across the road but obviously I am going to try and park as near to my house as possible - just like every other neighbour does.  Every car space is outside somebody's house so its unavoidable not to park outside someone's front door.

We don't constantly park outside this particular neighbour's house - in fact, I've only parked there twice.  My point is, that she has starting leaving notes and questioning us from the first time we did it.  If we were parked there every evening, I could maybe understand where she's coming from, but its only been occasionally.  

I would love to tell the people who park outside my door, to leave it free but I can't because they have the right to park there as per the terms of the estate rules. - and I accept that.

Looking at it from another angle - if she had the courtesy of asking us nicely to mind leaving that space free, maybe we would make a conscious decision not to park there but she started the bully tactics from Day 1.  Most people would not put up with that.


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## ClubMan (18 Jul 2007)

Livvy said:


> Most people would not put up with that.


Yes - and a lot of them would just switch to one of the other spare spaces that you mentioned and avoid the conflict with this neighbour if it could not be resoved more amicably. I know that I would.


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## aircobra19 (18 Jul 2007)

That would make sense, but it bothers me to see a bully get their way.


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## ClubMan (18 Jul 2007)

I guess it all boils down to how important it is to any particular individual to prove/score points in this context. For me it would be low on my priority list so I would just avoid the conflict since there is an option to do so with little or no hassle. Maybe for others (you, the original poster, the neighbour in question perhaps) it would rank higher and they would be happy to expend time and energy on pursuing it?


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## liffey (18 Jul 2007)

We had this problem too when we moved into our apartment.  We treid to get some mediation with the Management Company but they weren't interested at all......Granted it was only a small developement but as residents we agreed to allocate each apt one spot with visitors and residents with more then one car using the overflow spaces. We did up a spreadsheet, went around each apt and had everyone sign it. worked out well and most of us got a space directly outside our own home's.......might be worth considering if it really is an issue.


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## ClubMan (18 Jul 2007)

liffey said:


> We treid to get some mediation with the Management Company but they weren't interested at all......


"They" (the management company) usually means "you" (the householders).


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## solidrockman (19 Jul 2007)

I lived in the South of England for a few years before the property boom kicked off here and parking was a never-ending issue. Same problem as we have here now - all homes are only allotted space for one car, although most need two (or even more). It only takes one neighbour to start behaving unreasonably for tensions to rise very fast. 

I think the best solution would be for the neighbours to meet as a group and try to set an informal 'parking policy' for the area because you can be sure that having others park in 'their' space irritates everbody. Otherwise it's you against this person and that kind of confrontation brings nothing but trouble.


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## liffey (19 Jul 2007)

The management company was still controlled by the developer when we had our parking issue and so we hadnt got much say in anything.....


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## miselemeas (19 Jul 2007)

Not a good idea to have disagreements with neighbours - if you don't have a residents' group maybe now would be a good time to get a few neighbours together and work out this type of thing to everyone's satisfaction.


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