# Ive had enough and im heading to the UK, what do I do about enforcement orders?



## coolatjc (30 Aug 2010)

My Brother has decided to quit Ireland and head off to the UK.

He has had enough of Ireland and decided the best future for him is to pack up and move to England.

At the moment he has a enforcement order made against him, but the amount is for €400 per month for a debt of €18,000 with interest added at 8% each year.

He is in the process or applying to the court for a lower amount, he is unemployed. He didnt turn up to the Enforcement hearing because he asked for an adjournment so he could attend  a job interview. The court clerk told him this would be fine and they would mae a note of it. They also advised him to write to the creditor, which he did with a registered letter.

However he then dicovered the enforcement order was still heard in his absence and the creditor was awarded €400 per month! 

When he spoke to the court clerk, no record could be found of his telephone call to have the case adjourned! (Surprise Surprise.)

They advised him to apply for a enforcement variation payment appeal. Or something like that.

Anyhow he has decided to quit Ireland, and head off to the UK where he has a job wating thanks to a mate of his.

What sohuld he do?

He rents at the moment so he will obviously no longer have that address. I have told him to forward all his mail to me so I can send it on to him.

But what does he do about the enforcement order made against him and his appeal for lower payments? He obviously wont be able to attend any further court case and he has no fixed address in Ireland.

He plans to apply for UK Bankruptcy once his residency has been classed long enough, so he can clear his Irish debts.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## fizzelina (31 Aug 2010)

But if he is going over to start working in a job, why can he not make some repayments (bank transfer) and try to pay off the 18k? Can he not make a arrangement with the lender to stop the interest and pay off the capital at a lower amount each month, something he could afford? Does your brother seriously think he should just run away from his debt? To be honest it seems to me very irresponsible. We can't just pack up and move to avoid a debt owed.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

fizzelina said:


> But if he is going over to start working in a job, why can he not make some repayments (bank transfer) and try to pay off the 18k? Can he not make a arrangement with the lender to stop the interest and pay off the capital at a lower amount each month, something he could afford? Does your brother seriously think he should just run away from his debt? To be honest it seems to me very irresponsible. We can't just pack up and move to avoid a debt owed.


 
In all honesty what he will gain in wages wont be much more than he could earn over here sitting on the dole.

As for the bank, I think they have taken quite enough money of each and everyone of us dont you think?

But in regards to his debt, it was for a car. He ended up in a argument with the bank, they kept taking 2 direct debits each month until he canceled the direct debit. This lasted for 6 months. THe bank then said they would credit the wrong amount they took against his account, he told them this wasnt good enough and either they gave him a full refund for the 6 months or give him a payment holiday until the amounts had balanced out again.

The bank refused and arguments took place, then the bank slapped a repossesion order against the car.

To cut a long story short it has now ended up with him owing €18,000 to a bank for a car he dosent own and lost money paid.

I dont think its fair.

As from running away from his debts, he wants to start a new life. The EU makes it legal for any EU citizen to take advantage of bankruptcy laws in any EU country.

Why is it Ireland wants tp punish its people forever and yet the British give their people a 2nd chance?


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## TheShark (31 Aug 2010)

If he packs up and goes to the UK ignoring the Instalment Order the eventual outcome is that the creditor will obtain a Committal Order in his absence which would be enforced should he ever return to Ireland.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

TheShark said:


> If he packs up and goes to the UK ignoring the Instalment Order the eventual outcome is that the creditor will obtain a Committal Order in his absence which would be enforced should he ever return to Ireland.


 
But if he is bankrupt surely the committal order would be put aside as the debts no longer exist?

Eitherway he isnt trying to run away from the debt, he wants to pay a lower rate than what is asked for now and then claim bankruptcy later on.

The question Im asking is what does he need to tell the courts in regards to him no longer living in Ireland?


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## TheShark (31 Aug 2010)

You did'nt say he was declared bankrupt , what you did say is that he intends to apply for bankruptcy in the UK at a future date.
As things stand if he continues to ignore the Instalment Order he is staring at a Committal Order , which , believe me , will be enforced by the Gardai.
If he spent a little more time trying to rectify the situation rather than avoiding it he might be better off.


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## Joe Q Public (31 Aug 2010)

They won't be able to get a committal order unless they can prove good service of any summons. If he is outside the state the bank will be unable to effect good service.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

TheShark said:


> You did'nt say he was declared bankrupt , what you did say is that he intends to apply for bankruptcy in the UK at a future date.
> As things stand if he continues to ignore the Instalment Order he is staring at a Committal Order , which , believe me , will be enforced by the Gardai.
> If he spent a little more time trying to rectify the situation rather than avoiding it he might be better off.


 

Im sorry but I dont think you understand my question.

He is going to go to the UK to declare bankruptcy, once he does this he no longer will have any Irish debts. The Irish enforcement order will no longer have any legal basis.

My Question is, what does he need to do to inform the courts that he is planning to move to the UK?

The enforcement order was heard in his absence and a pathetic sum of €400 euro was awarded against him. Clearly no unemployed person can be expected to pay something as high as this, and the sum is equal to the monthly repayments he had.

He wants to get reduced payments as he is entitled to do, and pay this untill he declares bankruptcy in the UK, which will then null and void the Irish court decision and awards.

My Question is how does he inform the Irish courts and continue to seek a lower repayment if he no longer lives in Ireland?


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## Joe Q Public (31 Aug 2010)

He needs to apply for a variation order and serve that on the bank. That would involve him appearing in court and stating his case.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> He needs to apply for a variation order and serve that on the bank. That would involve him appearing in court and stating his case.


 

Thanks Joe, Will they serve him the details of the court hearing at his New UK address?

He has no problem in returning to Ireland for the hearing, its just that he wants to make sure he gets the hearing documents in the post.


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## Dachshund (31 Aug 2010)

I do not think that your brother or you know exactly what is involved in going bankrupt in the UK. Have a read of the [broken link removed] and that may answer your questions.

It is NOT as straightforward as either of you would like to believe and can last longer than a year.


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## Joe Q Public (31 Aug 2010)

coolatjc said:


> Thanks Joe, Will they serve him the details of the court hearing at his New UK address?
> 
> He has no problem in returning to Ireland for the hearing, its just that he wants to make sure he gets the hearing documents in the post.



Either he or you will need to take a form down to the court and get it stamped. They will then tell you the hearing date. You will then have to send a copy of the stamped form to the bank.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> Either he or you will need to take a form down to the court and get it stamped. They will then tell you the hearing date. You will then have to send a copy of the stamped form to the bank.


 

Thanks again Joe, would it need to be sent to the bank or banks solicitors, And where can he get these forms?


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## Joe Q Public (31 Aug 2010)

I would send a copy to the banks solicitors by registered post. I shall PM you the other info.


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## Slash (31 Aug 2010)

coolatjc said:


> He is going to go to the UK to declare bankruptcy, once he does this he no longer will have any Irish debts.



I don't think that's correct. Are you absolutely sure about that?

Be sure to research this completely, as declaring bankruptcy in any country will have implications, in that he will not be able to take out a loan to buy a house or set up a business, etc.


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## Joe Q Public (31 Aug 2010)

I think he is beyond caring about such matters.


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## coolatjc (31 Aug 2010)

Slash said:


> I don't think that's correct. Are you absolutely sure about that?
> 
> Be sure to research this completely, as declaring bankruptcy in any country will have implications, in that he will not be able to take out a loan to buy a house or set up a business, etc.


 

He has spoken to this crowd.



> Can I Move To The UK And Go Bankrupt?
> 
> Bankruptcy tourism is a term used to describe the process of a person moving overseas in order to go bankrupt in a different country. Bankruptcy tourism is for many people in Ireland with over-whelming debts a real option as Irish bankruptcy laws are very hard and out of kilter with many other European countries. European laws enable people that have moved to another country within Europe and can prove that they are resident there to petition for bankruptcy using the local insolvency laws in that country.


 
Can I Really Be Debt Free In A Year?



> EU rules mean any bankruptcy ruling in the UK must be recognised by the other countries in the European Union. This allows a person becoming bankrupt in the UK to benefit from the one-year rule on return to their own country.


 
[broken link removed]


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## Slash (31 Aug 2010)

Fair enough. You learn something new every day.

There are a number of spelling and grammar errors on that website, always a bad sign....but maybe they know what they're talking about.


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## PaddyBloggit (31 Aug 2010)

and the site is full of google ads which are just plonked into position rather than placed strategically.


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## Yeager (1 Sep 2010)

Slash said:


> I don't think that's correct. Are you absolutely sure about that?
> 
> Be sure to research this completely, as declaring bankruptcy in any country will have implications, in that he will not be able to take out a loan to buy a house or set up a business, etc.


 
He has a loan already and is unwilling to pay that one back so screw him if he wants another one.


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