# Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for Easter?



## camellia (31 Mar 2009)

Am I the only working parent who wonders why teachers are allowed to/get away with taking a half day (should that be a quarter day??) immediately prior to getting two full weeks off? 

I work in a relatively small company so when I take two weeks off it takes me about six more to catch back up with my workload. I have to work extra hard befor ean after the holiday. In fact I rarely take two weeks together  as it is not worth the hassle of trying to catch back up. The contrast with teachers is stark. I certainly would not get away with finishing up on the last day at 11 am. I would love to see my bosses face if i tried.

I appreciate that the holidays are part of the job, so fair enough, BUT given the general economic situation, it seems a bit rich that pepole who were due to strike on Monday last over the general unfairness of their treatment etc etc etc are about to take off for two full weeks, shortly after midterm, with the benefit of being paid for a full days work on Friday as they tear out of the carpark at 11 am! 11 am! 

Is it too late to re-train I ask my self ????

Never mind the inconvenience caused to those of us who have arrangments in place for collecting our children at 2.30.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Simple answer to your question:

No ... schools are not allowed to take half days.

We don't. But I think we are amongst the few rather than the many.

Our view is that the pupils are entitled to their full compliment of school days.

A half day here and a half day there ..... all add up!

We'll be working a full day next Friday.


----------



## Marion (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



> Is it too late to re-train I ask my self ????



I doubt it. Unless you are close to 65 and/or don't have the academic qualifications and/or don't meet the interview requirements.

Marion


----------



## ANORAKPHOBIA (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Schools are not a childminding service. You are responsible for your children when they are not in school even if it is inconvenient.


----------



## mosstown (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

anorakphobia, that's a bit harsh and not especially helpful.  at least camellia has a job and is trying to pay her way and dont forget the tax she pays goes towards teachers salaries !


----------



## Marion (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



> at least camellia has a job and is trying to pay her way ...the tax she pays goes towards teachers salaries !



True ... but teachers pay tax too and so would be paying a contribution towards their own salaries. Are you suggesting that teachers don't pay their way?


Marion


----------



## mosstown (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

yes of course teachers pay tax too ! - but i think choosing to close a school at 11am is a bit much.  maybe we should all finish at 11am that day and get a full days pay for it.


----------



## Marion (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

We don't know how many schools are closing at 11 am. I doubt there are many others in the country doing this.

I am also sure that many teachers and other workers would love to finish at 11 am on that Friday and get paid for it.

What school is it? Is there a particular reason for this school to close at 11 am? 

It certainly seems an unusual time to close.

Marion


----------



## sandrat (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

dont they usually close early and have in service stuff after? so the children are the only ones getting off early


----------



## Lex Foutish (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Are you sick of highly paid teachers? Teachers' hefty salaries are driving taxes up and they are only working 9 or 10 months a year!

It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit!

We can get that for less than the minimum wage!

That's right. Let's give them €3.00 per hour and only for the hours work; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be €19.50 per day (8:45 to 4:00 pm with 45 minutes off for lunch - that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay €19.50 per day for these teachers to baby sit their children.

Now, how many do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's €19.50 x 30 = €585.00 per day. 

However, remember they only work 180 days per year!!! We are not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE....That's €585 x 180 = €105,300 per year. (Hold on! The calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Masters degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage (€7.75) and, just to be fair, round it off to €8.00 per hour. That would be €8 x 6 1/2 x 30 x 180 = €280,800 per year. Wait a minute! There's something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher's salary (nationwide) is €50,000.
€50,000/180 days = €277.77 per day/30 students = €9.26/6.5 hours = €1.42 per hour per student - a very inexpensive baby sitter and they even educate your kids!

What a deal!


----------



## camellia (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Thanks for all your responses

Paddybloggit - If you are correct when you say they are not allowed to do this then how can they get away with it? This school also closes at 1 PM one Wednesday every month to facilitate a staff meeting. 

Is there a mechanism whereby I can complain about this practice to the Dept of Education?

Lex Foutish  - You obviously had fun with all your calculations but you missed my point. I do not consider that the school is a childminding service nor do I expect teachers to be paid by pupil etc etc. However I would respectfully sugget that 50K a year for 180 short working days, even allowing for prep work etc is not a bad daily rate, compared to a job paying 50K where you are expected to work approx 46 weeks of the year. My point is that it is unreasonable, unfair and, dare I say it, selfish to finish at 11am, while presumably being paid for a full working day.

PS Even my children don't get it...........they can't see the point of having to get up early and go through the whole morning routine for barely two hours in school


----------



## Ceist Beag (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

camellia Padybloggit is wrong. Each school is allocated a certain number of holidays during the school year and it is up to themselves when they take these. So a school is perfectly entitled to take a half day (which means taking half a day from their remaining holidays) so long as they don't exceed the quota for the year. Quite how they can finish at 11 as opposed to 12 (am guessing we're talking primary school here so normal "full" day would be 9-3?) tho I'm not sure - 9-11 doesn't sound like a half day to me!


----------



## ophelia (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

They probably still cover the compulsory number of days which they are required to teach. They may take a half day here or there but lose a day or two of holidays somewhere else throughout the year. Isn't that one of the things school inspectors check?


----------



## Lex Foutish (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



camellia said:


> Thanks for all your responses
> 
> Paddybloggit - If you are correct when you say they are not allowed to do this then how can they get away with it? This school also closes at 1 PM one Wednesday every month to facilitate a staff meeting.
> 
> ...


 
Just a bit of fun, Camellia. It's an email that was doing the rounds a few weeks ago. 

Lex.


----------



## camellia (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Lex

Sorry! I always have my sense of humour removed before i start giving out. Didn't see the email before so thought you were 100% serious. Amazing how it is possible to manipulate figures to support almost any argument isn't it.

Cranky Camellia


----------



## Smashbox (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



ANORAKPHOBIA said:


> Schools are not a childminding service. You are responsible for your children when they are not in school even if it is inconvenient.


 
Very helpful to the discussion as always Anorakphobia.

Its very hard for parents to organise childcare for unsuspecting days like these, but I am sure the school staff are using the time for the benifit of the school, like an in service day, etc.


----------



## Bubbles34 (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Our school also closes at 12 noon on Friday - they always do before every holiday - and believe me the teachers will not stay in school any longer then 12 noon that day  that's a fact - I am living in a small town...

Camellia I feel your pain but now hear this one

I have my kids in an after school facility which operates until 5.45 p.m. every evening - now the manager has decided that during the summer holidays she is only operating until 4.15 - sometimes I feel like the only working mother in the world  who has problems with this.


----------



## Oilean Beag (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Its highly unlikely that the school has gone over the allowed holidays here but has just broken them up in a way that is inconvenient to the OP. 

Lesson for today class :  Should have been a teacher.


----------



## Bubbles34 (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



Marion said:


> We don't know how many schools are closing at 11 am. I doubt there are many others in the country doing this.
> 
> I am also sure that many teachers and other workers would love to finish at 11 am on that Friday and get paid for it.
> 
> ...


 
I think it's rather the norm unfortunately - even when I was a child - ok that was in Germany but anyway


----------



## camellia (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Apologies for beating this to death but could someone confirm how many full days primary school are required to be open?

I have just counted the working days per the school calendar 08/09 and they are due to work 184 days. That includes at least 3 days finishing at 11 am; last day before Christmas, Easter and Summer holidays.

Thanks


----------



## carrielou (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Our local primary always finishes at 12.30pm for Easter Break, Summer Break and Christmas Break.  Never questioned it because it was always the way, my eldest is 16 now, so has been that way for the past 12 years


----------



## pansyflower (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



> how many full days primary school



183


----------



## felixmcg (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

My nephew finishes school at 12 on Friday as teachers in his school have a staff meeting. I have no problem with this. Isn't it better that they send children home rather than put them in front of a DVD for the afternoon on the last day of term? Anyway, kids are usually wrecked by the time the holidays arrive.



Lex Foutish said:


> It's time we put things in perspective and pay teachers for what they do - baby sit!


 
Lex Foutish, do you not realise that teaching is a profession???
My sister is a teacher and has spent 5 years studying to be a teacher (including postgrad courses) and more than earns her money. She spends hours at home preparing and correcting work.


Your attitude is disgusting.


----------



## Padraigb (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



felixmcg said:


> Lex Foutish ...Your attitude is disgusting.



Yes. Like Jonathan Swift's modest proposal.

[Mind you, if we took Swift's advice, we would have no problem with school closing times.]


----------



## Smashbox (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



felixmcg said:


> Lex Foutish, do you not realise that teaching is a profession???
> Your attitude is disgusting.


 
Lex was joking. Did you see his reply or just the joke post?



> Just a bit of fun, Camellia. It's an email that was doing the rounds a few weeks ago.


----------



## baldyman27 (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



felixmcg said:


> Your attitude is disgusting.


 
A slight case of selective sight Felix? Or do you not understand the concept of sarcasm perhaps?


----------



## bongo2 (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

I was just speaking to a primary school vice principal and she admitted that half days count as full days ,so that is why most schools have half days before breaking for holidays. 

The school my children go to try and justify it by saying that it is a "tradition"


----------



## irishlinks (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Never mind primary schools - what about the short terms for secondary schools? Most pupils will finish at the end of May if they are not sitting JC or LC. Teachers (in our school) are nowhere to be seen after May (unless they are getting paid to supervise exams).  UK schools will be going till Mid July.


----------



## samanthajane (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

I think teachers that have the younger classes are much better off....to be honest how much lesson planning and marking to you have to do for 5 year olds? That also finish at 1.30pm! Thats a haf day in it's self.

Why do irish school's have different picking up times? nothing more annoying picking one chld up at 1.30pm and having to go back again at 2.30pm. I think they finish school way to early. In england they are in school untill 3.15pm-3.30pm, i was told because 5-6 year old arn't able for the full day!! 

I dont by the reason that they cant handle from 9am to 3 pm....so why do they finish school earlier and at different times???


----------



## Padraigb (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



samanthajane said:


> ... Why do irish school's have different picking up times? nothing more annoying picking one chld up at 1.30pm and having to go back again at 2.30pm. ...



It's really the fault of parents, for having children of different ages.


----------



## samanthajane (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Damm my ovaries for not producing 2 eggs at once or that 1 egg not spliting into 2 during those early stages!!!


----------



## Complainer (2 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



camellia said:


> Is there a mechanism whereby I can complain about this practice to the Dept of Education?


Wouldn't the first step be to complain to the Principal and then the Board of Management?


----------



## Marion (2 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Based on Camellia's last post she has verified that the school is open 184 days when the requirement is 183 days. 

The school appears to be fulfilling its obligations. 

Marion


----------



## thebop (2 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

I've been reading this thread with great interest and more than a little mild amusement.

First off, 11 a.m. is a very unusual finishing time - it's nearly always 12 or 12.30

Schools are entitled to take one half day per term - it's at their discretion when they are taken.

As for the jibe about us having threatened strike action, well there's a 'damned if we do /damned if we don't' situation if ever I head one.

I'm so sick of the teacher bashing lately. People see it as a cushy number, if it's so easy go and try it out for yourselves - it's really that simple! Samanthajane you would be most welcome in my class of over 30 5 year olds any time you want - just see the work (and patience!) that delivering a decent education requires and you might think twice about posting such ignorant comments.


----------



## Bronte (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

I can confirm another small town primary school closing today at 12.  My sibling told me and I asked why on earth when there is going to be 2 weeks holidays?  It's very inconvenient and last minute notice etc.  As another poster said it's hardly worth getting up to bring them.  I don't get the childminding jibes.  Children are sent to school to be educated not to be childminded and working parents plan their hours around the hours that they know their kids will be there. It is exceedingly inconveninet to be told about a half day (is 3 hours a half day?) only a few days before.  Has anyone heard of planning on putting a notice up of all half days, holidays etc well in advance.  I get a list in September of all school holidays and any teacher training days I'm notified of at least a month in advance in addition to which there is an easy to see notice put up.


----------



## ontour (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Teachers perform a job that is critical to the future of the country and has an impact on nearly everyone.  Good teachers put in a lot of additional effort outside of class hours and this often goes unappreciated.  This, IMHO, is because it is not well structured and monitored to ensure consistently high standards by all teachers.

The function of a teacher is not to be a child minding service but the reality is that it forms a significant part of the role.  Parents have an opportunity to engage in work, education or other activities while children are in school.  I think that there would be significant social and economic benefits if schools opened earlier and closed later and included more structured extra-curricular activities including supervised study.  It would be great if a child could be dropped off in the morning before work and collected in the evening after work where the child has completed 'homework' and had an opportunity to engage in sports. Better opportunities for children, easier access to workforce for parents. Delivering on such a dream would require a fundamental change in the expectation of working hours of teachers.  The teachers should also have the same expectation, that they have time for classes, preparation and other activities during the 'normal' working day.

As an aside, is it just a coincidence that the number of days in a year for primary schools, 183, is exactly the same as the revenue allowed days in the country to still claim non-residence for tax purposes !  Have we some high net worth toddlers influencing government?


----------



## ice (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



felixmcg said:


> Isn't it better that they send children home rather than put them in front of a DVD for the afternoon on the last day of term?


 
Thats all my daughter did today from 9-12 in school - watched a DVD!

Teaching can be a very tough job -any parent who has ever had 15 or more kids to a party can tell you house stressful it is to have a large number of children in a room at one time!

There are some very lazy teachers out there who just put in the hours, do not inspire the children and make no effort etc but there are also some fantastic teachers who really go the extra mile. Its a pity the systems doesn't work with some sort of basic pay and bonus system (say based on parents feedback etc). 
Sorry for going off the point a bit!


----------



## samanthajane (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



thebop said:


> I've been reading this thread with great interest and more than a little mild amusement.
> 
> First off, 11 a.m. is a very unusual finishing time - it's nearly always 12 or 12.30
> 
> ...


 

How were my comments ignorant??

My point was the time they finished school, tell me where in my post that i said it was easy to have 30 5 year olds, or where i mentioned patience....... nope cant find it can you!!!


You need to calm down and stop thinking everyone is out to bash you cause your a teacher. This post was orginally about the time that the school closed......thats what i was commenting on. So get off your high horse. A better response would of been to answer the actual point that i mentioned since your anger was pointed towards me in gerenal....but you chose to rant on about something totally different and unrelated to what i said.  Surprised you didn't have any comments to make about that or were you lost for words or perhaps ignorant yourself in knowing exacetly why irish children have different finishing times.


----------



## Complainer (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



ice said:


> Thats all my daughter did today from 9-12 in school - watched a DVD!


Must have been a box set to last three hours? Ours would only watch DVDs on rainy days instead of going out to the yard. Have you raised your concern with the teacher or principal?


----------



## Complainer (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

Duplicate posting.


----------



## ice (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



Complainer said:


> Must have been a box set to last three hours?


 
They watched two movies  - I don't really have any concerns about it to be honest - just thought it was a bit Lazy but like I said in my post some teachers take the easy way out and I think we have one of those this year.


----------



## Threadser (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



samanthajane said:


> I think teachers that have the younger classes are much better off....to be honest how much lesson planning and marking to you have to do for 5 year olds? That also finish at 1.30pm! Thats a haf day in it's self.
> 
> 
> As a teacher, I think this comment illustrates the basic lack of understanding of the nature of the work that teachers do.  Teaching a junior infant class is very challenging and involves complex planning.  Teaching the "concept of a number" to a five year old is as difficult as teaching long division in 6th class.  The infant day is shorter because the attention span of children at that age is very limited and lessons are changed every 20 minutes to ensure maximum stimulation for the children. The "short" infant day is highly intensive, extremely exhausting but very rewarding.
> ...


----------



## emmage (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



Threadser said:


> samanthajane said:
> 
> 
> > I think teachers that have the younger classes are much better off....to be honest how much lesson planning and marking to you have to do for 5 year olds? That also finish at 1.30pm! Thats a haf day in it's self.
> ...


----------



## thebop (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



samanthajane said:


> *I think teachers that have the younger classes are much better off....to be honest how much lesson planning and marking to you have to do for 5 year olds? That also finish at 1.30pm! Thats a haf day in it's self.*
> 
> Why do irish school's have different picking up times? nothing more annoying picking one chld up at 1.30pm and having to go back again at 2.30pm. I think they finish school way to early. In england they are in school untill 3.15pm-3.30pm, i was told because 5-6 year old arn't able for the full day!!
> 
> I dont by the reason that they cant handle from 9am to 3 pm....so why do they finish school earlier and at different times???


 
To a Junior Infant teacher like myself, that's a pretty ignorant and condescending view to take. I know you didn't use the word "easy" but that's exactly what you are implying and as for "patience", well I did use an exclamation mark. I won't repeat the points that threadser made but s/he was spot on with their comments.

I didn't address your last point as I was too riled up and completely forgot. There is no standardisation of starting or finishing times for school in general or for Infants. What has happened in recent years is that the inspectorate have targetted schools who sent kids home before a second lunch break and made them lengthen the day. They would argue it allows for more socialisation and parents are doubtless happier about the hour or so less of childcare that needs to be paid for. The infant day in my current school was lengthened before I joined the staff so I'm not sure about when exactly it happened. Basically the kids are in school for 45 minutes longer and this time is spent with 30 minutes on lunch / yard and 15 mnutes to sort out yard issues / injuries and get organised for home. 

I don't think it would be feasible to have finishing times totally standardised across the board - it would be a nightmare for parents who have kids in different schools. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## samanthajane (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

I was by no means underminding what any teacher does. My experience of them ( apart from one ) has been brilliant. I have a 9 year old and a 6 year and god forbid i have had to deal with 30 of them. I'm sure every year the teachers swap classes they pick straws to decide what poor sod had the bad luck of taking which ever class my son was in!!! 

I still dont think my remark about the lesson planning and marking for a 5 year old was unresonable. My daughters teacher leaves the school at around 1.45 pm when all the children have been picked up. While the other teachers stay till after 2.30pm. I see her do it every day. There is no point in me going home to come back again at 2.30pm. I'll relent on the leson planning a little bit as i admit i dont know what time/effort they put into this....but judging by the homework side of things my daughter gets reading everynight which i do with her and then sign to say she has done it, and once a week she has a work sheet to do. Now compare this to my son that brings home at LEAST 90 mins of home work a night which the teacher marks and is always returned 2-3 days later. Now from my point of view you can see why i said that a junior infact teacher doesn't do that much marking as that of a teacher who is teaching a few years above this. 

As regards standard times across the board i think for primary schools there should be. Children who have moved on from primary school in most cases they would either walk or get public transport and are able to make their own way home, and all schools that i know of they would finish later as well. How many people would have children that are primary school age going to different schools? A small amount i would imagine. I'd even be happy to pay for the extra hour just so i only had to make 1 journey. Call it want you will..... help with reading/homework, just watching a dvd, i wouldn't mind what they did as long as she was there untill the other one finished school.


----------



## samanthajane (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



Threadser said:


> The infant day is shorter because the attention span of children at that age is very limited and lessons are changed every 20 minutes to ensure maximum stimulation for the children. The "short" infant day is highly intensive, extremely exhausting but very rewarding.


 

My daughter went from finishing at 1.30pm to finishing at 3.15pm for 2 terms while i was in England, she had no problem adjusting. I dont think you can say the above statments as being correct for every child, she was more than able for it as was every child her age in the school. 

Those extra few hours really helped her, as well as the school and the assistants in the class. Every day she had help which she didn't get in Ireland.  Not the teachers or the schools fault that there is no assistant to help the children that are a little bit behind, and with 30 odd children the teacher can only do so much. She started in the new school at 5 years old not able to read, write or even know all her alphabet. Now it's a totally different story she is flying, they couldn't believe how far she had come on. She left the school last week being the top speller in the whole of her year. ( there are 3 classes, so appox 90 children ) She won it last term as well and was the only child to get all her spellings correct every single week. 

So how would you sum that up? That all of a sudden she got it......the extra hours in school helped?......the teaching assistant she had also helped?  Probably a bit of all 3, but with out those extra 2 hours in school i dont believe she would be anywhere near where she is now.


----------



## Complainer (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



samanthajane said:


> I think teachers that have the younger classes are much better off....to be honest how much lesson planning and marking to you have to do for 5 year olds? That also finish at 1.30pm! Thats a haf day in it's self.
> 
> 
> As a teacher, I think this comment illustrates the basic lack of understanding of the nature of the work that teachers do.  Teaching a junior infant class is very challenging and involves complex planning.  Teaching the "concept of a number" to a five year old is as difficult as teaching long division in 6th class.  The infant day is shorter because the attention span of children at that age is very limited and lessons are changed every 20 minutes to ensure maximum stimulation for the children. The "short" infant day is highly intensive, extremely exhausting but very rewarding.
> ...


I'd agree with all of this, though I do think that 3 hours of DVDs is a bit OTT. I'd certainly be keen to mark teacher's card on this.


----------



## Yorrick (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*

The teachers unions are always whinging about their entitlements but never seem to have any regard for members of other unions.
It is hard enough to organise childminding without having to factor in half days, in service days, parent teacher meetings etc etc etc.


----------



## thebop (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



Yorrick said:


> The teachers unions are always whinging about their entitlements but never seem to have any regard for members of other unions.
> It is hard enough to organise childminding without having to factor in half days, in service days, parent teacher meetings etc etc etc.


 
To be fair, there is one inservice day and one parent teacher meeting this year and one staff meeting per term.


----------



## thebop (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Are Primary Schools permitted to close at 11 am on the Friday they close for East*



samanthajane said:


> I was by no means underminding what any teacher does. My experience of them ( apart from one ) has been brilliant. I have a 9 year old and a 6 year and god forbid i have had to deal with 30 of them. I'm sure every year the teachers swap classes they pick straws to decide what poor sod had the bad luck of taking which ever class my son was in!!!
> 
> I still dont think my remark about the lesson planning and marking for a 5 year old was unresonable. My daughters teacher leaves the school at around 1.45 pm when all the children have been picked up. While the other teachers stay till after 2.30pm. I see her do it every day. There is no point in me going home to come back again at 2.30pm. I'll relent on the leson planning a little bit as i admit i dont know what time/effort they put into this....but judging by the homework side of things my daughter gets reading everynight which i do with her and then sign to say she has done it, and once a week she has a work sheet to do. Now compare this to my son that brings home at LEAST 90 mins of home work a night which the teacher marks and is always returned 2-3 days later. Now from my point of view you can see why i said that a junior infact teacher doesn't do that much marking as that of a teacher who is teaching a few years above this.
> 
> As regards standard times across the board i think for primary schools there should be. Children who have moved on from primary school in most cases they would either walk or get public transport and are able to make their own way home, and all schools that i know of they would finish later as well. How many people would have children that are primary school age going to different schools? A small amount i would imagine. I'd even be happy to pay for the extra hour just so i only had to make 1 journey. Call it want you will..... help with reading/homework, just watching a dvd, i wouldn't mind what they did as long as she was there untill the other one finished school.


 
I'm astounded that any infant teacher would leave as soon as the kids are gone every day - that is most certainly not the norm. I go home early the very odd time with my principal's blessing as I do so much supervision in my classroom before the day starts. 

Teachers have very different views about homework - I personally adopt a 'let's start as we mean to go on' attitude in every sense when it comes to fostering good habits towards school and I give about 15-20 minutes. But there are plenty who would be of the opinion that kids work hard enough in school and shouldn't have to do any more at home. 

As for the amount of planning required, as was mentioned earlier lessons are 20 minutes max so that's about 8-10 per day which takes a lot of organising. 

And finally just to clarify my point about standardising finishing times - what I meant was it would be a nightmare in single sex schools where kids have siblings in nearby - or not so nearby - schools when you consider traffic it would be mayhem.


----------

