# Jim Langan's furniture gone bust



## kerrybiffo

A friend just rang to tell me that Jim Langans's furniture has gone bust. Anybody able to confirm or deny that ?

I paid €2k deposit on a €4K order in January and am waiting on delivery. What are my rights if the rumours are true ? Will I be able to get my deposit back ?

thanks


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## Maggs065

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

If you paid by credit card (always advisable in these times!), then you can claim the money back from your credit card company. Otherwise you could be potentially in trouble. You need to find out some more information.


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## kerrybiffo

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

I did pay by cc alright. Thanks for giving me some potentially good news.


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## mathepac

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

Customers featured on Liveline today, some reported getting their goods, others didn't with deposits paid. One lady reported that suppliers removed goods from the shops, staff wages not paid. Jim Langan jnr.  issued a statement to the programme saying they had been advised by their auditors / accountants to close the shops, that they had tried to raise funds from banks and failed and that the business (3 shops and a warehouse) had ceased.


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## MandaC

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

Last week they had a huge marquee in Liffey Valley and were selling off stock, so am not surprised.


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## gillarosa

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

On Sunday in Liffey Valley they were selling at quite attractive prices but not taking deposits, Staff told potential Customers that it was a weekend special to waive the deposit. Possibley they were hoping to have an attractive order book / sales to appease their Bank and keep afloat?


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## eeyore2502

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

Yesterday we were over in Liffey and spotted the Garda at Jim Langans speaking to what looked like the Manager outside! Looks like a customer may have had a word or two to say.


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## mim45

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

paid in full back in December and still have not received delivery, called to store in feb and given flimsy excuse of factory in china closed for 2 weeks in Jan so order delayed, had a feeling this news was on the way, paid by lazor does anyone know if lazor covered by bank charge back scheme? Had just received reducdancy payment in december so decided to pay up front, feels like a double blow!


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## MandaC

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

Because Laser is a Debit Card and the money is debited from your account straight away, I do not think you are afforded the same protection as Credit Card.

Get onto your Bank straight away and get an update!


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## nads74

*Re: Anyone hear that Jim Langan's furniture has gone bust ?*

I am so annoyed i paid 850 euro in full six weeks ago,i rang them yesterday to see if my item had arrived as they said i could pick it up in carrickmines.I rang them only yesterday, and the girl told me it was just in but to leave it until today to collect and now its gone!!!! does anybody know if theres a way of getting your product or money back????? ( i paid with one for all vouchers mostly and balance with credit card) ):


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## mim45

Thanks Manda C was thinking the same myself, will get on to bank first thing.
The national consumer agency states the following on its website so im living in hope!

If possible, pay by credit card or by laser card. If your card-issuer operates a chargeback scheme, you may be able to recover money paid to a trader who has gone out of business

Will post how I get on as im sure there are more JL victims out there!


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## MandaC

Hopefully it will work it out and you can get your money back.  Credit Card chargeback, yes, Laser questionable!


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## kerrybiffo

rang my bank this evening. Cannot go through the charge back process until we first get official statement from Langan's that they are not paying their creditors. anybody know if a receiver has been appointed yet ?


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## mim45

your bank are on the ball kerrybifo, mine didnt have a clue what I was talking about and told me to ring my branch in the morning, hope starting to fade!


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## Jack H

I have a very close friend that works in this store he has told me that another large irish store is due to go bang next week. Anyone who has paid for goods with cash or laser has very slim chance of getting money back. Don't  buy furniture anywhere for a while. I presume I can't name the shop here.....


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## big bird

I was on to Classic Furniture on Sunday and the girl told me they were in recieversip also.


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## MandaC

Yes, Classic is in receivership since the first week of Feb.


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## hard-done-by

22 employees and so far no official statement from senoir management.
Staff were only told yesterday to close the doors and knew nothing of what was going on. If they didn't take your money they probably did you a favour !

Warehouse clearance sales were normal and were held twice a year by the company for the past four or five years. 

As far as I am aware Customers that paid by credit card are covered, just have to wait for the company to appoint a liquidator/ receiver. Should be in the next few days. I don't think laser has that same guarantee.

Classic Furniture are currently in receivership/ administration and looking for someone to buy the company.

I have heard that as a company they were very good to work for, it is very sad for all customers affected and for the staff that have been left jobless.


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## MandaC

The white marque in  Langan's Liffey Valley is I would think a relatively new development.  I certainly dont recall them at Liffey Valley branch.  I think it sprang up first about this time last year and there have been three or so of these sell outs (probably about the same time the economy started dipping)  

JL's were very expensive for what they sold.  I was looking for a mango coffee table/unit and tv unit.  I priced these in Langans and they were €500 dearer than the supplier I ended up with.  They also wanted to charge me €75 delivery!  At the time in the furniture trade there were rumours then about a couple of bigger stores in trouble (mentioned JL's and Classic and Land of Leather - now gone)  Although I did not want to name names as they were unsubstianted rumours at the time, I did post a warning on this website advising people to pay for their large purchases by CC.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=100468


I would now write officially to the Liquidator(when appointed) and enclose a photocopy of my Letter.  Would also CC a copy of that letter to the Chargeback dept. of credit card.  Thats how I got my money back from Rocca Tiles years ago.


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## debscon

hi i also was due to recieve a delivery of a new sofa 1600euro and 1300 of it was paid by credit card lucky enough was onto credit card company yesterday  there has been a liquidator appointed and shoule here something in next few days he said usually through the web site so keep watching


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## babsie00

I ordered a dining table and 6 chairs back in November paid in full 1400e by visa hope i have some chance of getting it back will call the bank today. does anyone know what the procedure is in finding out who the receiver/liquidator is????


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## princesstini

Does anyone know who the liquidator is yet? I paid a deposit of 200 in Jan, I know its not much but I'd rather that I have it than them! I paid with a visa debit card, phoned halifax and they told me to contact visa europe in the uk, their no is 00442077955777 if anyone needs it.


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## babsie00

I have been onto visa this morning and they told me I have to write to them outlining my situation and enclose some kind of proof that the company has gone bust eg; newspaper clippings the number I called was on the back of my visa card 6685500.


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## princesstini

I phoned Halifax again, and as I used a Visa debit card, I am covered. Firstly I need to get a letter from the liquidator to state that the company has gone bust and that I did not receive my order. Once I have this letter I send it to Halifax and then they will start a "chargeback" with visa, so hopefully I will get my money back. I just know it is going to be a headache though! Need to find out who the liqidator is......


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## Markdublin

I called Mastercard this morning they said I need to write to them about this and make my case. If you Google Jim Langan Furniture, about 3 or 4 results down there is a link to the Independent article about this. If you print it maybe it will help your case.

M.


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## Markdublin

Sorry, can't see it now! My bad...........


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## Markdublin

found another one though that you can print, Irish Times have an article about it, Google Jim Langan Furniture and it will be there for you to see! I hope this helps your cases!

M.


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## princesstini

National consumer agency's website, consumerconnect.ie will be posting details on all of this as soon as they get them, jsut spoken to a guy in there.


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## Actionmags

Hi  i was onto the national consumer agency and they said keep an eye on their website because there is conflicting reports at the moment, i have paid mostly in cash but with a bit on credit card ... it said in the irish times that people who showed up yesterday were able to take their stuff, anybody know anything about that


by boyfriend just went over to the one in liffey valley and there seems to be about 30 people outside (angry mob )

[broken link removed]


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## D8Lady

They had this on Gerry Ryan's show this moring. There were about 20 very upset and angry people who had paid for their furniture, could see it in the shop but couldn't get in. Some men were "testing the doors" to see if they could be opened.

Don't know what happend in the end but I'm sure there'll be more on it later.


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## Actionmags

will have to keep an ear out on what to do might go over myself tomorrow... i tried their phone and their mail box is full...no suprises there


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## babsie00

Just been on the nca website and they basically say they are "aware of alleged trading difficulties associated with Jim Langan Furniture. The Agency is not on notice to the appointment of a liquidator or receiver or the nature of the liquidation". So its just a case of wait and see but I think ill stick with the charge back idea.Id rather the money in my pocket than theirs now!!does anyone know anything about those people that went and got stuff from liffey valley??


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## princesstini

babsie00, I've my letter for chargebacks in the post already to the bank, I wasn't due to get my table until April so I've no reason to hang around! I just wrote a letter to the bank explaining the whole thing and closed a copy of my receipt and a print out from the irish times website so hopefully that will be enough to get the ball rolling. I really feel for people who may have paid in cash.


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## ditpoker

My brother has had a credit note for €2,000 from back in April. Used half of it at the weekend in Carrickmines (i assume this is effected in the same way as liffey valley).

Anyone know what happens now to that order? What should I do etc?


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## babsie00

I was told only last week by staff in liffey valley that my furniture has been in dublin port waiting on clearance from customs since the 7th feb!! i was considering cancelling my order anyway as i havent been able to contact their customer/delivery service for the last two weeks.been listening to joe duffy talking about the whole thing and he had a member of staff on who said suppliers came into the store on monday afternoon and just started taking furniture off the shop floor .staff had no idea what was goin on so they closed the shop due to "electricial difficulties". seems nobody really knows what the story but my advice is get your money back asap!!


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## babsie00

from what i have read there is no chance with credit notes,you would have to write to the liquidator and you would be put on a list if creditors to receive money back and apparently customers are way down the pecking order!!!


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## jlodublin

Hi. I too have been stung for 500 euro. I dealt with Trish in Carrickmines who I actually know from previous dealings, am really upset she didnt warn me but thats a different story ....  
We ordered a table/chairs and sideboard on 27th Oct 2008. It says on the order form that the chairs are in stock, table ordered with 10 week delivery timeframe. It should have been €3,726 for all of it but we got a 25% discount as there was a sale on.  They took €500 euro.  Anyway, we have been in with them hassling them big time, and got the same old story about the docklands etc - and it was on Liveline again today, some people in much worse off boats than me - but the most annoying thing is the CRO Website - www.cro.ie - is still showing them as status normal, so I dont know how to find out who has been appointed liquidator etc?  I got on to the Consumer Agency today, but they dont have any specific information.

Did anyone find out anything further?
Thanks.


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## ditpoker

jlodublin said:


> Hi. I too have been stung for 500 euro. I dealt with Trish in Carrickmines who I actually know from previous dealings, am really upset she didnt warn me but thats a different story ....
> We ordered a table/chairs and sideboard on 27th Oct 2008. It says on the order form that the chairs are in stock, table ordered with 10 week delivery timeframe. It should have been €3,726 for all of it but we got a 25% discount as there was a sale on. They took €500 euro. Anyway, we have been in with them hassling them big time, and got the same old story about the docklands etc - and it was on Liveline again today, some people in much worse off boats than me - but the most annoying thing is the CRO Website - www.cro.ie - is still showing them as status normal, so I dont know how to find out who has been appointed liquidator etc? I got on to the Consumer Agency today, but they dont have any specific information.
> 
> Did anyone find out anything further?
> Thanks.


 
is there anyone up in carrickmines today??

From what i can gather from this [broken link removed] is that if they do receive funding somehwere they could potentially stay in business?


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## jlodublin

*Type*
Company
*Number*341595
*Name*
JIM LANGAN FURNITURE VALUE LIMITED
*Address*
UNIT 10
LIFFEY VALLEY RETAIL PARK
DUBLIN 22

*Registered*
10/04/2001
*Status*
Normal *Last AR Date*
31/01/2008

*Next AR Date*
31/01/2009

The 'Next AR Date' refers to the statutory Annual Return Date (ARD). This is a date after 1 March 2002 to which an annual return should be made up. If a company has annual returns outstanding for previous years the obligation to file these returns is a continuing one.
*Last Accounts To Date*
30/04/2007

[broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed]Home|About CRO|Business Registration|Post Registration|Annual Return|
Business Termination|Online Services|Downloads|What's New|Disclaimer|


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## princesstini

I spoke with a guy in the National Consumer Agency said they will be posting info on their website as soon as they get it. its consumerconnect.ie. Good luck to everyone!


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## eady5

I ordered sofa on 6th of Sept., I was promised delivery in Nov, delay in delivery story used a few times , still in the docks story used a few times. I'm worried as I paid by Laser Card, rang bank they are looking into it.  They say your only covered in case of fraud. This is to me as i was lied to , so in my opinion it is, waiting for call back from bank. I also asked Jim Langan's on the last call if everything was ok and were they going anywhere as I was worried about the length of time, I was assured everything was fine . Anybody else out there pay by Laser hearing anything back?


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## cav09

Hi Eady 5,

Myself and my brother used out laser cards to purchase our sofa.  We paid 1700e in total for it.  I contacted my bank this morning (AIB) and they told me that there was no cover on a Laser card as it is a debit card.  However they said you might be covered on a Vias debit card.  Im going to ring the number on the back of my card as the NCA advised to ring that number.  I will let you know what they say.


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## Tipptop

Did Jim Langan own Classic furniture as well or was it another member of the family.


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## cookie2

It is sad to hear about those of you who have been caught up in this unfortunate saga. For those of you having to repurchase or for those of you wary of where to buy furniture products at the moment, I can recommend Arnotts on Henry Street and Kenneth Hodgins near the Beacon South Quarter in Sandyford. Both of these companies are finacially solid, give great service and have a wide range of products that come from the best suppliers. I would also recommend buying Irish. There is traceability, lead times are realistic, and if there's a problem you don't need to wait for the next consignment from China. This will also benefit the economy. Lastly if anyone has queries regarding buying fabric sofas I am in the business and would be happy to talk to you. My number is 086 8369305.


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## leahcullen

I paid in full for a suite of furniture in Carrickmines in December and was told it would be a minimum of a 10 weeks wait for delivery. I called last week to find out the situation and they advised they would be delivering it on Paddy's Weekend. 

I rang my bank (AIB) and they advised me that as I paid with Laser card, as soon as the money leave the account they can not do anything about it, so they CAN NOT refund the money to a standard laser card.

I found this information which people might find usefull:
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Press Releases/Jim_Langan_Furniture.html

I hope we all get our money back or products delivered


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## JackobyJoe

For anyone who is trying in vein to get an answer from the company, according to the CRO website, Jim Langan has the following company addresses

*Search Results*




[broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed]Click on the Company/Business Name to retrieve the relevant details.[broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed]   *Found: 2           [broken link removed]*        [broken link removed]   *Name*
*Number**Address*
*Type*
JIM LANGAN FURNITURE VALUE LIMITED341595UNIT 10 LIFFEY VALLEY RETAIL PARK DUBLIN 22 Company JIM LANGAN'S FURNITURE LIMITED3143115 MULBERRY PARK CARPENTERSTOWN ROAD CASTLEKNOCK DUBLIN 15Company*Name*
*Number**Address*
*Type*
    [broken link removed][broken link removed]


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## tosullivan

JackobyJoe said:


> This site shows status change to receivership from 3/3/09.
> http://www.solocheck.ie/FreeIrishCo...ompanyName=JIM LANGAN FURNITURE VALUE LIMITED
> 
> Just incase you are worried about Jim Langan going to Spain, he has a mansion to hide in when he comes back.


 Current Status is showing NORMAL now


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## YouNeek

JackobyJoe said:


> This site shows status change to receivership from 3/3/09.
> http://www.solocheck.ie/FreeIrishCo...ompanyName=JIM LANGAN FURNITURE VALUE LIMITED




The document received by the CRO on the 03/03/09 was B10 - "CHANGE IN DIRECTOR OR SECRETARY". Does the receiver take over as director or secretary of the company when it goes into receivership? Does anyone know who the receiver is?


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## mercman

Surely the best thing is to form a group, assemble all the information and make aan appointment with the Fraud Squad. Simple as that. It is the only chance you will have of getting any money back. If he has gone away he will have to come back and I would suggest (with all and sundry grouped together) if it can be proved that he has acted fraudulently, is to get a Court Order to restricting him from reducing his assets under a certain amount.


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## niff85

Yes i agree. I think we should form a group get together to see if we get any money back.
Is this not fraud? (their website is still up and running)
Did any body get any deliveries?
I am waiting on a dinning table & chairs since end December!


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## MandaC

JackobyJoe said:


> Look at the bottom where it says 'Most recent Documents', hover over the 'REC' under status. REC = receivership
> 
> The question is how long have the company known about this and why were they taking (explicitly) cash balance payments as recently as a few days ago - cash is near impossible to get back from liquidator. You gave them cash and they gave you lies



Would be interested in knowing where you are getting that from???  Up to this minute on the CRO the company is still showing normal staus. Jackobyjo, your posts are unhelpful to people who need to get a clear prespective and gather the facts.  Comments along the lines of its in Receivership (when it is not) and he has a big mansion  to hide in with lots of nice furniture (!) do not help.    I have been at Liquidation Meetings and there is always one person who gets the crowd going.   They all start going off on individual tangents and get nowhere. All it does is set everyone on edge.  People have more than a right to be angry, they could potentially have lost a lot of money and may not get it back.  Being angry will not get your money back.  The only thing that will help is pooling your knowledge and start being practical.  Be angry later.  Try and get your money back now.  

From a CRO point of view, here are the facts:

*REC does not = Receivership*
Most Recent Documents = Rec = Received.

Documents can either be REC (Received) Reg (Registered) or RET(Returned)

The status of this company is still showing normal.  So they have 7 days to lodge the form appointing the Receiver.  Does anyone know is a Receiver being appointed, or is it a Liquidator (Creditors Liquidation) ?  There is no point in going in all guns blazing until all of the facts are straight. 

I did a company search on the document that is received. It is a B10 change of Directors. It is nothing got to do with a receiver or Liquidator, it is one of the two directors trying to resign. I would not be happy with this and it does not comply with company law. There are two Directors of Jim Langan's Furniture Value.  One of the Directors filed a B10 himself online and resigned himself as of 26th February and lodged the form on 3rd March.  He cant just do that.  This document is REC as in Received.    By Liam Walsh resigning himself, he only leaves the company with one officer Jim Langan (Director and Secretary)  This is illegal as a company has to have two officers.  Nobody else is joining in place of Mr. Walsh.  Obviously Mr. Walsh knew what was coming down the tracks and was trying to get out before the proverbial poo hit the fan.  Anyone interested should ring the CRO and ensure that this B10 is rejected.  The CRO should reject this document automatically, however, if it were me I would ring/send an email to them. This will ensure that Mr. Walsh is not allowed resign.  I would also phone ODCE (Office of Director of Corporate Enforcement) explain the situation and see what they say.

This is the process under which a Receiver will be appointed.
_Statutory requirements
A notice of appointment of receiver (Form E8) must be filed with the CRO within *seven days of appointment *and must also be published in Iris Oifigiúil and in at least one daily newspaper circulating in the district where the registered office of the company is situated.

Once a receiver is appointed all invoices, orders for goods and business letters issued by or on behalf of the company must contain a notice to that effect.

Where a receiver is appointed on behalf of debenture holders, who are secured by a floating charge, a statement of the company's affairs (E10/Form 17) must be submitted to the receiver who must file a copy of same with the CRO.

The receiver must file abstracts of her/his receipts and payments on Form E9, for each six-month period from the date of her/his appointment, and any lesser final period up to the date he/she ceases to act. A notice of ceasing to act must then be filed on Form E11._


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## MandaC

Ok, had a look at the accounts filed online for 2007 and they were not that healthy.  

Also, this company was struck off and then restored for non filing of accounts.

Directors Payments amounted to some €475,000
Wages and Salaries amounted to over €1.2m. (for 21 people)
There were large creditors  (over €2m) including VAT and PAYE and Bank Loans.
However, the net shareholders funds was still in the region of some €267K.

They appear to be tied into big leases as well, fine when the economy is booming, but I reckon their turnover fell considerably, leaving them exposed (well the Banks exposed) and the Bank pulled the plug.

Amongst the transactions is listed that the company paid €95K to a Marketing Company Destiny Consultants connected to one of the Directors.  Mr. Liam Walsh.  

Destiny Consultants was struck off in 2005 - it has never filed any accounts and yet the 2007 accounts of Jim Langan show €95K paid. and €96k paid in 2005.  Not an ideal situation - large sums paid to a connected struck off company. 

There is a fixed and floating charge over the assets/property of the company by Bank of Scotland (Ireland) Limited.  There is also a personal guarantee by Mr. Langan who owns 99% of the Company with Mr. Walsh holding 1%)

The last accounts were filed by KPMG as independent Auditors.  Someone should ring them and ask them to clarify the position on behalf of their client.

The one positive note is that a recent article in the Times stated that the company wanted a Receiver appointed with a view to a members voluntary liquidation.  Under a voluntary liquidation the company can pay its debts.   So perhaps the 2008 Accounts were ok and they still have cash at Bank.  But the reality is the turnover and assets probably dropped with still big commitments to pay and they could not do it.  Bank probably not likely to extend themselves any further.


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## Davey B

Just checked the website of the Office of Corporate Enforcement .There is a downloadable complaint form [broken link removed] 
Section D of this form relates to Reckless and Malicious Conduct .If they were taking cash deposits after the 26th Feb when Mr Walsh resigned then there is possibly a case of Intent to defraud creditors.
We should all complete this form and get it off to the ODCE .


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## MandaC

They (CRO) wont accept Mr. Walsh's resignation.  The form will be rejected and they will be asked to correct it.   It will not initially be treated as fraud, sometimes people make a mistake, ie file the form for one director to leave before filing the new one for the incoming Director.  By all means, make CRO and ODCE aware of the situation.   

Also, Mr. Walsh's resignation comes almost to the day that the 2009 Annual Return with Accounts for 2008 was due.

Phone KPMG - might be able to help or point in right direction with the appointment of the Liquidator/Receiver.

Interesting Article about trading while insolvent here.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1015039.shtml

As said earlier, the Times said that the Directors were hoping for an examinership or voluntary liqudiation, which may still indicate all will be paid. So do not lose all hope yet.  


Good Luck with it.


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## johnebhoy

I'm caught up in this just like the rest of you for almost €2k that I paid in full on a suite and I've been looking into what can be done.  I'm not really interested in speculation and found this Last Word podcast to be most informative on your rights [ http://audio.todayfm.com/audio/20090304170010.mp3 ], you can also listen to the Joe Duffy podcast but again he is speculating and sensationalising as opposed to give anything that may help people.  I paid by credit card so there is some hope for me of claiming against the credit card company (according to this guy from the Consumer Affairs dept) under Section 14 of the Supply of Services and Sale of Goods Act.  Unfortunately if you paid by cash, voucher or laser you don't have much by way of rights (I'm sorry to bring bad news).  As far as the company is concerned, it is illegal to trade while insolvent which they seem to have been doing and if this is the case then the Director for Corporate Enforcement will be brought in and the Directors will be fined, possibly jailed and definitely stricken off being allowed to run a company again but only give you or I some satisfaction that they didn't get away with it, it won't get our money back.
If you can't go through your credit card company then the best thing to do is to take it up with the liquidator directly but you will be down the line in terms of who gets paid first (Revenue, Banks and certains suppliers will be before customers).

My advise would be to try all routes and hopefully something will come off.  Best of luck - it is hard to take at a time when people don't have money but keep the chin up and maybe this is patronising but at the end of the day it is only money.
Hope this helps someone.


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## dinjoecurry

In future anyone buying furniture should refuse to pay anything untill the goods are available.Why do we have to wait weeks for furniture to arrive ? it does not happen with cars/electrical goods We the consumers must force the furniture trade to have the stock available In the current climate consumers can not be sure of the future viability of any retailer


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## babsie00

i was told today that there is a security gaurd out at the liffey valley store who is going to lose his job and is letting people into the warehouse to take what they are owed. a friend of mine went out yesterday and was told there were 94 of the chairs she wanted and he let her in to take the six she had ordered.worth a try i suppose!has anyone heard anything more about a receiver/liquidator being appointed yet my bank said i need a letter from whoever it is in order to start arranging a chargeback on my visa!


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## MandaC

babsie00 said:


> i was told today that there is a security gaurd out at the liffey valley store who is going to lose his job and is letting people into the warehouse to take what they are owed.


 

Would take this with a pinch of salt. I would think most of the goods are long gone and the keys well guarded. 

Very upsetting to hear people losing their money on Liveline yesterday. Bad form.


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## johnebhoy

babsie00 said:


> i was told today that there is a security gaurd out at the liffey valley store who is going to lose his job and is letting people into the warehouse to take what they are owed. a friend of mine went out yesterday and was told there were 94 of the chairs she wanted and he let her in to take the six she had ordered.worth a try i suppose!has anyone heard anything more about a receiver/liquidator being appointed yet my bank said i need a letter from whoever it is in order to start arranging a chargeback on my visa!



You don't need a letter from the liquidator - a newspaper clipping from a reputable and established newspaper or print out from a reputable website will do stating that a liquidator has been appointed to the company.  Obviously if you could get the letter then that would work best.


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## johnebhoy

babsie00 said:


> i was told today that there is a security gaurd out at the liffey valley store who is going to lose his job and is letting people into the warehouse to take what they are owed. a friend of mine went out yesterday and was told there were 94 of the chairs she wanted and he let her in to take the six she had ordered.worth a try i suppose!has anyone heard anything more about a receiver/liquidator being appointed yet my bank said i need a letter from whoever it is in order to start arranging a chargeback on my visa!



I was out there today and I was told by a guy who has been calling out every few hours that on Sunday the staff who were just told the news were letting people in because they didn't care any more but only a few people got in and got to grab anything.  On the contrary from the above story some people yesterday were shaking the door and the security guards called the police as they thought they were going to break in.  The police came and just tried to calm people down whilst being very understanding of the situation, they reminded everyone that it was illegal to loot a shop regardless of what has happened, apparently someone from the Gerry Ryan show was there as well (probably egging them on for good radio).


----------



## CCOVICH

dinjoecurry said:


> In future anyone buying furniture should refuse to pay anything untill the goods are available.Why do we have to wait weeks for furniture to arrive ? it does not happen with cars/electrical goods We the consumers must force the furniture trade to have the stock available In the current climate consumers can not be sure of the future viability of any retailer


 
In fairness, it is normal enough to pay a deposit for a new car, and wait weeks (10-12 in the case of Audi/BMW even now) for them to arrive.

I don't think it is realistic for furniture stores to take all the risk of non-acceptance of large ticket items (suites etc.).

The lesson is to pay as little as possible upfront and by credit card.

I say this as someone who lost money from paying by cash when 'ID Design' folded/fled.


----------



## MandaC

Companies Office Update:
The B10 form (effective of 26th February 2009) where Mr. Walsh was trying to resign leaving one company officer has now been removed from the CRO database.  Also, bear in mind that if a company goes into Liquidation, they have 15 days to file the form appointing the Liquidator!

Phoned KPMG (as Auditors) and they are saying they know nothing or have nothing to file


----------



## mumof3angels

I did not buy anything from jim langans but I heard it on the Jerry Ryan store yesterday. Ireally hope everyone gets there money back. I am just woundering why his web site is still up and running? Just say I knew notting about what was going on and bought something from the site should they not close it *down 
*


----------



## dinjoecurry

CCOVIICH
Whats the difference between a big ticket furniture item and a 60" LCD TV or top of the range Hi Fi I suggest its not price. Many "big ticket" furniture items are less € than the LCD price.The furniture trade have just been let away with taking deposits and letting consumers ,wait more fool the customers to put up with it 
As a matter of info I lost nothing with Langans and I don't even know who "ID Design" is/was and I would never pay cash for a large purchase


----------



## CCOVICH

Furniture generally has to be ordered in-if it was in stock, there wouldn't be an issue.

TVs etc are generally in stock, so the issue of a deposit doesn't arise.

And aren't there longer lead times on furniture v. electronics?

I don't know, maybe there is some sort of conspiracy in the furniture trade to rip off customers, but they are not the only trade (motor, travel, etc) that seek deposits from customers upfront. In fairness this sort of issue does _seem_ to arise more often in this trade than in others, _maybe_ some sort of action is necessary to protect customers?

Anyway, I really don't want to drag this thread away from the specifics of the Jim Langan case.


----------



## MandaC

I also worked in the furniture trade at one stage.  On items ordered specially for customers, it would be impractical not to take a deposit.

People have different tastes in furniture and it is unfair to expect a retailler to be left with a bizarre coloured fabric or leather  suite that might never sell on.  Goods come in and customer says, no, dont want it any more.  Without a deposit or commitment the shop is left with "poison" goods.  People buy things on spur of the moment and then change their mind and sometimes even dont tell the shop.

That's not fair either.
Some people have mentioned large electrical items.  Correct me if I am wrong, but do Electrical shops not ask for a 10% deposit on "special orders" either.

Only way around it is pay by CC.  Shop covered/customer covered.


----------



## kurby

dinjoecurry said:


> CCOVIICH
> Whats the difference between a big ticket furniture item and a 60" LCD TV or top of the range Hi Fi I suggest its not price. Many "big ticket" furniture items are less € than the LCD price.The furniture trade have just been let away with taking deposits and letting consumers ,wait more fool the customers to put up with it
> As a matter of info I lost nothing with Langans and I don't even know who "ID Design" is/was and I would never pay cash for a large purchase


 

a sofa for example is alot more expensive to store than a flat screen tv or top of the range coffee maker, they come in many different variations, choices sometimes bespoke.

i pity the furniture trade getting a bad name from all of this as some people dont think of it as jim langans and even just refer to it as furniture shop in liffey valley or carraigmines.

It would be a sad state if people halted buying as a result of this as we already have a recession to cope with.
I understand that this is a shock that a well known company has just dissapeared, i can only feel sorry for the people who have lost money from this and i hope that justice has will be done.

I am in the middle of buying a property and i know that i have to buy furniture soon, I have learnt a lesson from this and will only be paying by credit card and only deal with the more reputable companies like arnotts and clearys who have seen these recessions before and represent high quality customer services whenever i have dealt with them before, This is were i take my confidence and assurances from.

Best of luck all, I hope something positive turns out, If not we can all say we have learnt a valuable lesson, I know i never heard of being protected by my credit card company until this.


----------



## johnebhoy

Liquidator hasn't been appointed yet, I was talking to the Dept. of Consumer Affairs late today.  They will make an announcement on their website as soon as the Liquidator has been put in place www.consumerconnect.ie


----------



## paddyd

johnebhoy said:


> apparently someone from the Gerry Ryan show was there as well (probably egging them on for good radio).



can't believe I'm defending gerry ryan, but when the disgruntled customers there asked if Gerry wanted them to kick in the door live on the radio, and if they should just 'go for it' (you could hear the door taking a pounding in the background), he consistently said no no no


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Folks

I have great sympathy for anyone who has lost money due the closure of Jim Langans.

I know it's very frustrating for you and I know that you want to let off steam.

However, I have to delete all defamatory posts. 

Stick to the facts and facts only. 

Don't use words such as "criminal"  to describe anyone's behaviour. It serves no purpose and could compromise a prosecution if there is to be one. It also puts my home at risk. 

I have deleted many posts. Anyone else who ignores this guideline will be banned.

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Would anyone like to compile a FAQ on this topic? If so, start a new thread.

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess

I know nothing about this case, but it's important to point out that, in general, 1% shareholders, whether they are directors or not, can often be victims like everyone else. Eddie Hobbs got tarnished by being a director of Taylor Investments, although he was subsequently cleared of any wrongdoing. 

If you are a director of a company and you are not genuinely responsible for the management and direction of the company, you should resign promptly, especially if you have any worries about the finances of the company.

Brendan


----------



## samanthajane

i'm really sorry to all the people that have lost money over this and i hope you are all able to sort this out.

So advice is to pay by credit card if you are purchasing anything at the moment cause you have no idea what state any company is in.

So for someone like me that doesn't have a credit card or a laser card and only uses cash what can i do?

I understand that stores dont want to be left with something they cant sell, that does make sense but people dont want to be out 100's of euros. 

Would you be able to sign something with the company saying that when your item or items were available for delivery/collection that you would then pay in full then. Or would the company just refuse that idea altogether. I dont see how they could as if a company told me i had to pay a deposit upfront i just wouldn't buy from them, i'm not prepared to take the risk i'd do without what ever it was i was looking to buy, and i'm sure others would as well. And that will lead on to know one buying, more companies going bust and more people out of jobs. 

That shinning light at the end of the tunnel is getting dimmer and dimmer by the day.......


----------



## JimmyM

I bought a dining set in October, I received my table but 6 chairs are still outstanding. Luckily I paid €125 deposit on the chairs with credit card.

I have heard rumors of ads in a certain news paper from Furniture Depot, that they will honor all Jim Langans customers deposits. Sounds too good to be true.

Can anybody confirm this?


----------



## tosullivan

JimmyM said:


> I bought a dining set in October, I received my table but 6 chairs are still outstanding. Luckily I paid €125 deposit on the chairs with credit card.
> 
> I have heard rumors of ads in a certain news paper from Furniture Depot, that they will honor all Jim Langans customers deposits. Sounds too good to be true.
> 
> Can anybody confirm this?


 I heard the same but they are not taking any orders without a deposit either, which I think now that peoples fingers have been burnt, will be reluctant to do so....

anyhow, here is a link to the Irish Times article stating that JL has closed.  Its sufficent for your cc company when making the claim to them

[broken link removed]


----------



## RonanC

JimmyM said:


> I bought a dining set in October, I received my table but 6 chairs are still outstanding. Luckily I paid €125 deposit on the chairs with credit card.
> 
> I have heard rumors of ads in a certain news paper from Furniture Depot, that they will honor all Jim Langans customers deposits. Sounds too good to be true.
> 
> Can anybody confirm this?


----------



## mcaul

Just to give info on a few posts I've read

1. Chinese New Year at end Jan effectively closes China for 2 weeks. 

2. Customs will hold containers of furniture at docks for approx. 2 - 3 weeks as they need to be sealed for approx. 60 days from date of leaving factory.  

3. Only deposits paid for with Visa / Mastercard / Amex are covered by cardholder insurance. Laser / cash / cheques / bank drafts are NOT covered by any insurance and those people will have to stand in line with all other unsecured creditors.

4. The way liquidation works is as follows. Company decides it cannot continue to trade due to inability to pay debts. Creditors meeting is called (usually 2 weeks notice) Liquidator appointed at meeting. Liquidator gives forms to cro announcing they have been appointed. Liquidator goes through all documents and must report finding s to ODCE who then decides if directors are restricted / barred or pursued on criminal grounds. (takes up to 2years)


From experience of retail, the big ticket non essential retail style stores are being hit extremely hard world wide. Furniture / cars / carpets / tiles / electrical. Landlords have until recently refused to enter negotiations on rent levels which is the biggest cost of all. - I expect Jim Langan was paying circa €300k a year each for Liffey Valley & Carrickmines.   

The plus side of things is there is brilliant value out there at present for those who have the spare cash to upgrade their homes, especially on products that are sitting in warehouses.

Hopefully landlords will start biting the bullet and drop their rents so retailers can drop their prices & customers can buy with confidence.


----------



## johnebhoy

Some interesting information on consumer rights in Ireland:

[broken link removed]


----------



## JY09

Hi everyone, 

Has anyone got an e-mail address of Jim Langans? 

Just spoke with credit card company they have stated to send an email to Jim Langans or letter, requesting delivery date etc for anything you have ordered with them, even though it wont happen, then they give you a liquidation number and you can claim back money from your credit card company..


----------



## johnebhoy

JY09 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Has anyone got an e-mail address of Jim Langans?
> 
> Just spoke with credit card company they have stated to send an email to Jim Langans or letter, requesting delivery date etc for anything you have ordered with them, even though it wont happen, then they give you a liquidation number and you can claim back money from your credit card company..



Taken from a letter I received from them a few months ago:
info@jimlangansfurniture.ie


----------



## CCOVICH

You may be better off sending a letter by registered post.


----------



## JY09

Many thanks


----------



## scarlett22

I work in a small family run Furniture Shop and since the news broke about Jim Langans we have had customers wanting to place orders but not pay a deposit of 25% of the value of goods.  However some do not want to take delivery of the furniture until end April early May. From experience this could run on until June/July, in the meantime we order in their furniture, store it and in some cases have to pay for it in full when we take delivery.  You suggest that we do this without deposit we already have 2 suites on our hands where less than 25% deposit was paid and ordered in very specific fabrics (that would not appeal to everyone) and when we went in one case to lift it out of our delivery truck and customer came out and said oh that wont fit in goodbye.  The other customer wont answer the phone to us. This is quite a common occurence.

Some radio hosts have already done untold damage telling people to keep haggling for money off, in our experience some people think they are coming into an auction not a furniture shop.  

The closure of Jim Langans and Classic Furniture just a few weeks ago is going to cause fear in people and with justifaction so I suggest people should pay with credit cards if worried that way everyone wins.


----------



## samanthajane

what about people that dont have credit cards!!! like me. What do you suggest i do?


----------



## CCOVICH

samanthajane said:


> what about people that dont have credit cards!!! like me. What do you suggest i do?


 
Buy furniture that is in stock and ready for delivery or get a credit card to use for such purchases to protect your deposit.


----------



## babsie00

check this out dunno if its the real deal or not got it of another site..

[broken link removed]


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## dfarrelly

Langans have released a statement

[broken link removed]


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## jlodublin

Sorry - if you type [broken link removed] into a browser, you get the following message, so his statement is not real I would think ...

Website Under Construction 
please call back soon


----------



## princesstini

I don't care about his bloody statement etc, too little to late if you ask me, I just wanna know who the liquidator is so that I can apply for my refund from visa.


----------



## kerrybiffo

same here. In the lucky situation that I paid with credit card and now all that I want is the name of the Liquidator so that I can begin the process of recovering my deposit. 

Then I have to start the whole process of shopping for the furniture all over again. Problem is, who do you trust to fulfill your order in the current climate ?


----------



## princesstini

To be honest, I think you are better off buying off small local retailers who have been established a good while. They usually have their items in stock also. Thats where I'll be going from now on, they tend to do better deals also. Having said that I did purchase a sofa from dfs online and it arrived a week before they said it should, they were a pleasure to deal with, very helpful.


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## mcaul

Assuming that the company is going about the liquidation process in the normal way, they would have no access to the website or to the shops / warehouse.

I dealt with JL a few years ago and found them to be one of the better retailers on price & service - as did many people. Jim Langan himself is a decent sort and I can imagine & understand the personal pressures he is going through at the moment.
I also understand the type of rents & rent reviews they were subject to and the total and utter contempt that landlords have for independent retailers with legal letters flying if rent is even late for a week. - You are then charged €400 + for the pirvilege of receiving this letter. 
There is no negotiation and costs & threats keep coming on a weekly basis. - Particulary from the owners of Lifey Valley. (I have first hand experience of their attitude to independent retailers with a rent increase from €145k to €385k per year which forced me out) 

My guess is if there is someone to vent anger at, it is the over greedy landlords of the major shopping centres and their contemptous attitudes to small retailers.


----------



## eady5

I hope the statement about getting some money back is true.  I paid by Laser Card , as I thought I was being smart at the time keeping credit card bill down.  I now have no sofa ,  no comeback on my 500 euro and when I go to buy a new sofa , I'll use the credit card but still be wary as I have already wasted 500.00 .  I also had Sasha vouchers to use and they closed their doors also.


----------



## johnebhoy

mcaul said:


> My guess is if there is someone to vent anger at, it is the over greedy landlords of the major shopping centres and their contemptous attitudes to small retailers.



First off JLF isn't a small retailer. Secondly it wasn't the landlords that forced Jim Langan into taking peoples money 2 days before he calls in the liquidator.  I don't know if the company was insolvent for long beforehand or it just happened the day before but if it was and they continued to trade then the law will decide who was to blame and I'd doubt it will be the landlords.  I know of plenty of businesses who have renegotiated their rents in recent weeks or months due to the current climate and the extortionate rents being paid.  I have heard other rumours as to why this company continued to trade but as I have no basis to back it up and I'd prefer not to get kicked off this site  as it is quite informative, especially in times like this. 

Anyway, to let people know that AIB Visa have informed me that their Chargeback facility is available to their customers for up to 120.  By default it is 60 days but because of the volume of claims associated with the Jim Langan liquidation and the fact that it is a furniture company and with furniture purchases people generally pay a deposit or in full in advance, therefore they have decided to extend the chargeback claim period to 120 days - lucky for me as I made my purchase of close to Eur2k approx. 105 days ago.  Fingers crossed still.  If this is true and AIB Visa have made an exception in this case then I'd like to commend them as I'd be first in with the boot on other banking related matters recently.


----------



## babsie00

ive just tried to get onto the langans website and i cant get in at all anyone else had this problem??i also asked the person who originally posted that "statement " on another site where they got if from they told me by just doing a google search on the words "jim langan furniture" ive tried this and cannot find where they got this statement from so i am a bit weary of its authenticity like jlodublin says when you enter the website address the site is under construction!


----------



## scall

We too were taken for over 1,000 we paid up front in cash. Any news on the liquidators?  I have been so upset and depressed all week, no money, no table and chairs. Can someone please explain to me why people who pay cash are treated so badly, if you pay credit card you get your money back, is that correct?  So should people who paid cash not be looked after by the liquidators. I'm not saying people who paid credit card shouldn't but if they do get it from Credit Card company??
The table we picked out and locker we cant find the same anywhere else. I'm just devastated by these events it has really made we loose all my trust in giving deposits i the futute


----------



## tosullivan

kerrybiffo said:


> same here. In the lucky situation that I paid with credit card and now all that I want is the name of the Liquidator so that I can begin the process of recovering my deposit.
> 
> Then I have to start the whole process of shopping for the furniture all over again. Problem is, who do you trust to fulfill your order in the current climate ?


 I've moved on and ordered a replacement bed from Collins furniture in Belfast.  I have bought from them before and you pay on delivery. No deposit.  Excellent service and my bed will be here in 2 weeks, fully assembled.  If you decide to use them , tell them Tom recommended them.  (I have no affiliation with this company only that I am very pleased with their service)


----------



## mcaul

johnebhoy said:


> First off JLF isn't a small retailer.


 
The people who own centres like Liffey Valley own many shopping centres throughout Europe and generally prefer to deal with companies that can operate 30 - 40 stores within their portfolio. e.g. Zara Group, Benneton, etc They do not respond to small Irish retailers who have just a couple of stores. - As I said, I have first hand experience of dealing with them.

As for JL Liquidation - The way it works is a provisional liquidator is appointed by the company, approx. 2 weeks notice is then given of a creditors meeting which will be held in a hotel or silmilar place. At the creditors meeting a statement is read about circumstances relating to the closure and then a vote based on value of creditors is taken on who the actual liquidator will be.

In normal circumstances one of the larger accountancy firms is appointed and they then must do reports for the office of the director of corporate enforcement (odce) who decide if any action is taken against the directors.


----------



## babsie00

so while mr langan and co are sitting in a fancy hotel discussing how they can save their milllions customers who have paid in full or paid deposits just have to wait for their furniture and get no response to emails no answer on the phones and no explanation from the company whatsoever!!


----------



## mcaul

babsie00 said:


> so while mr langan and co are sitting in a fancy hotel discussing how they can save their milllions customers who have paid in full or paid deposits just have to wait for their furniture and get no response to emails no answer on the phones and no explanation from the company whatsoever!!


 
By law, that is how they must do it. And its open to all creditors including customers who have deposits. - and I'll tell you its no fancy discussion. Mr. langan will have maybe his solicitor & accountant there and everyone else in the room will be against him asking questions which he must answer and which answers will form part of a report to the ODCE & creditors. - hardly a comfortable situation especially with the baying tabloid media circus that will accompany it.

Legally the company can do / say very little whilst the process is being concluded, once a liquidator is appointed all queries go through the liquidator.


----------



## babsie00

if thats the way it has be done then fine but that store still took money from customers right up to the day it shut its doors and since that day no one has  been able to make contact with any member of that company yet they still posted a note on the window of liffey valley telling customers to ring the customer service number for information.if its all confidential then fine but why tell people to call the number if there is no one to answer it and if there were someone to answer it that person could tell you nothing.. dont get me wrong i understand s%^t happens and places close down but i think given that they took my hard earned cash i have the right to be angry and i have th right to some sort of explanation its over a week ago now and not so much as a courtesy statement from them.


----------



## mcaul

babsie00 said:


> if thats the way it has be done then fine but that store still took money from customers right up to the day it shut its doors and since that day no one has been able to make contact with any member of that company yet they still posted a note on the window of liffey valley telling customers to ring the customer service number for information.if its all confidential then fine but why tell people to call the number if there is no one to answer it and if there were someone to answer it that person could tell you nothing.. dont get me wrong i understand s%^t happens and places close down but i think given that they took my hard earned cash i have the right to be angry and i have th right to some sort of explanation its over a week ago now and not so much as a courtesy statement from them.


 
But its good to know haow it works - then you can vent your frustration at the right time & place which will probably get you more satisfaction.

Also as a creditor you have rights. You can make a report of fraudelent trading to the liquidator if you have information that supports this. You are also entitled to a copy of the liquidators creditors report, both the initial findings and the conclusion (takes up to 2 years). 

Thankfully company law in Ireland is quite strict and if it is proven that the company traded whilst insolvent & knew that they were insolvent, then criminal proceedings are brought against the directors.  - The ODCE has teeth and likes to use those teeth regularly.!


----------



## JY09

Did anyone get to speak with Customer Services for Jim Langangs and if so what were you told? My furniture was due next week, if i go get another sofa im afraid they will ring me saying its in stock....


----------



## suzie

Fortunately we paid for the deposit by CC. Spoke with CC company who will start the charge back process once the (extended) delivery date has elapsed. Now I'm also aware from this thread of the time limits associated with such charge backs.

I suppose the question I have is what if our delivery was actually in stock, is it still possible to purchase (obviously no come backs etc) from the liquidator even if we charged back, as I don't want to wait on the liquidator due to the above time constraints?

Its just that the piece of furniture was idea for our purpose and at a good price.

Thanks

S.


----------



## Annerie

How long is it going to be before a liquidator is appointed? It's been weeks since they've closed their stores and I have €2k on the line... It's very unfair of them to keep us in the dark with no real information.
Does anybody have any ideas? Can they drag it out for months before we are able to talk to any representative at all?


----------



## scall

I'm the same we have 1,000 cash to chase, we might have no chance of ever getting it, but I'm not letting it go. We are now trying to scrape up money to get our table, chairs etc again, we even have to get some on the never never because they took the last of our money!  I definitely wont give up without getting some kind of money back off Jim Langan, what they did was really bad form. i know at least 10 people who were taken for 500 euro or over and mostly cash, god knows how many people they really got money from.  Any word on who the liquidator is yet?


----------



## JY09

There seems to be no word on liquidator yet, just checked company print out and Jim Langans is still noted as normal which is not correct as they have closed down.. Its awful what has happened, and no one seems to be helping to sort the problem out in any respect as no one answering phones or letters or e-mails its a joke.. Has anyone any other reliable places where you could buy sofas??


----------



## Moneypit

I got a gorgeous Italian sofa in January from Kingsbury Furniture in Tallaght, I find them great to deal with, have never had the usual waiting delays etc. that you get with other places and they've good quality stuff in my opinion.


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## JY09

Great many thanks


----------



## babsie00

ive given up waiting on a liquidator to be named ive sent my letter to visa for a charge back on my card.i was hoping that they would announce something and that i might get my furniture but there are only so many days i can wait before the time limit is up for a chargeback.its annoying as the stuff i had ordered was perfect and i hadnt seen anything like it anywhere else


----------



## kerrybiffo

can anyone explain the time limits on the chargeback scheme ? I've rang the BOI twice and they have never mentioned a time limit


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## babsie00

im told that there is usually a time limit of 60 days to have a chargeback on a visa card but in situations such as this one it is extended to 120 days from the date the transaction was made.im with aib and thats what ive been told anyway boi might be different


----------



## eady5

Anybody have a clue what's going on, surely at this stage a liquidator should have been appointed, if not where's our money, we seem to be left in limbo.


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## MandaC

There is still no update with the Companies Registration Office about the appointment of a Liquidator.  CRO will be writing to the Directors of Jim Langan Furniture Value Limited advising them that they are in breach of their duties by non filing of Annual Returns/Accounts.  That is all they can do at this stage.

You could log a complaint to ODCE about possible trading whilst insolvent,  but this would be difficult to prove without seeing recent accounts as the accounts filed with the Companies Office are way out of date( 2007).

When a Liquidator is eventually appointed, he will take stock of everything and then see if that is actually the case.

This one is going to run for some time, folks, and I would advise anyone who has paid money by Credit Card that this looks like your best course of action to get your money back.

If I find out any further information, I will update here.


----------



## johnebhoy

babsie00 said:


> im told that there is usually a time limit of 60 days to have a chargeback on a visa card but in situations such as this one it is extended to 120 days from the date the transaction was made.im with aib and thats what ive been told anyway boi might be different



I bought from Jim L on visa and therefore have made my claim against visa and from talking to them so far it looks like my claim may be successful (I won't know for sure for 30 days from claim submission which is still about 2 weeks away).  The chargeback facility against which I am claiming is normally 60 days but AIB Visa have extended this to 120 in this case - I'm not sure on what grounds they've made this extension but they have.  So if you bought using visa then get your claims in now - ring your visa company (number on the back of the card) and they'll tell you exactly what to submit. My claim is significant at almost 2k so if I can get it back then I don't see why anyone else who bought on visa shouldn't. 
For those who paid cash or cash equivalent I'm sorry I can't help as I don't know anything about this area (and don't want to guess).


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## babsie00

has anyone heard anything yet about a liquidator?the company status is still "normal" on the cro website.the langan website is gone no answer on their phones.advice was that they have 15 days to file papers about their liquidation id say they've had their 15 days by now!!its a disgrace that there has been nothing from that company since they shut their doors!!!!


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## MandaC

There will be a lot going on behind the scenes with this.

Yes, they have 15 days to file the Liquidation forms, but until they are filed the status is deemed normal.  The CRO cant just act on heresay.  There has been nothing official from the Directors/Shareholders, so the CRO are waiting for this.  All they can do at the minute is advise the Directors that they have not filed their Annual Return.

Who exactly is going to appoint a Liquidator?

Initially, it looked like the Directors wanted to go into Members Voluntary Liquidation, but that looks highly unlikely now.

I would think it will be left to one of the suppliers or the Bank, or even Revenue to get the ball rolling.

Chargeback is definitely the best option for those who can avail of it.


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## babsie00

has anyone received a call from someone claiming to work for a supplier in blanchardstown stating that they will be able to deliver the goods you ordered? ive been told of this happening in the last week or so, this fella calls with all your details,what you ordered,amount paid etc etc.he claims to work for this company but refuses to leave a contact number.the suppliers in question know nothing about this!a bit suss!!they do have similar stock to that of langans on their website. they dont deal directly with the public but will tell you your nearest stockists.


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## babsie00

has anybody heard ANYTHING about langans or from their cc company about chargebacks yet? still waiting to hear from aib about mine


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## Sneem-Man

+ 1


----------



## Annerie

I sent an email to NCA 2 days ago and they said that there's nothing we can do but wait. It's crazy & very unfair. I can't see how it's legal that JL haven't even released a statement. Needless to say I am VERY reluctant to put ANY deposit down anywhere now.


----------



## jlodublin

Hi - I am also out of pocket by 500 euro. I drove up to the Carrickmines store yesterday evening (1st April) and the fake "closed due to electrical fault" sign is still up there on the window - with no other sign of anything.  

I cant believe they still havent filed for liquidation?  I spoke to the son of a lady who worked in Carrickmines a week ago - and seemingly they took in something like 1.7 million euro between Stephens Day and the day they closed - and lets face it, most of that stuff probably wasnt delivered - so I think they have a legal case to answer here..... 

Is it worth filing a complaint with the Fraud squad maybe?  What they have done is taken peoples money - and disappeared into thin air?  Am definitely considering that.  The CRO dont care anyway, I rang them.

I cant believe we have no rights!  
Am so annoyed still ...............


----------



## jlodublin

BTW I just emailed the Garda Press Office - press_office@garda.ie - to see what their position is on this type of thing, so no harm if a few of us do ....


----------



## rapresponse

I bought two couches in Dec and like others kept getting the delivery date pushed back.  Luckily enough I had paid by visa and on hearing the news on Joe Duffy I sent off for charge back immediately, I've just checked my AIB banking online and all the money has been returned. Best of luck to everyone.


----------



## tekvoy

Hi rapresponse,

It that true that you got your money back from AIB? I also called their Charge Back department and they told me I have to wait for appointment of liquidator. 
Where did you sent your claim to?


----------



## RonanC

jlodublin said:


> Is it worth filing a complaint with the Fraud squad maybe? What they have done is taken peoples money - and disappeared into thin air? Am definitely considering that


 You should be contacting ODCE and asking them if there is a case of fraudulent trading here. 




jlodublin said:


> The CRO dont care anyway, I rang them.


 I dont agree with that statement. In terms of filing requirements, Jim Langan Furniture Value Limited are up to date ( apart from the liquidations documents, but nobody knows what is happening in that case and the CRO do not have the powers to go out and tell somebody to file liquidation documents) The ODCE are the body that were givin the powers of investigation of corporate fraud and then prosecuting if needs be.


----------



## rapresponse

tekvoy said:


> Hi rapresponse,
> 
> It that true that you got your money back from AIB? I also called their Charge Back department and they told me I have to wait for appointment of liquidator.
> Where did you sent your claim to?



It is true I got my money back.  I spoke to a couple of different people in the chargeback dept so one person told me to send evidence of JL liquidation, along with a copy of my receipt and a letter outlining my predicament.  As evidence I sent a copy of this [broken link removed] article.  I sent it to somewhere in Sandyford, if you phone AIB Visa they can give you the exact address.  Goodluck with it.


----------



## mcaul

jlodublin said:


> I cant believe they still havent filed for liquidation? I spoke to the son of a lady who worked in Carrickmines a week ago - and seemingly they took in something like 1.7 million euro between Stephens Day and the day they closed - and lets face it, most of that stuff probably wasnt delivered - so I think they have a legal case to answer here.....
> 
> .............


 
I doubt if someone who worked in the store had this information & I would guess the son has exagerated just a little. If any store took in €1.7m in 6 weeks, they certainly would not be out of business.

Another scenario could be that they have ceased trading and have no tangible assets and therefore are awiting a third party (e.g creditor) to apply for liquidation - this may not happen as the third party would have to pay the costs of liquidation.

All in all there should be some sort of statement (even I'm surprised at the length this has gone on) - somebody could go to the cro website and obtain the last ldged accounts which would give details of the auditors and ask them for a statment. The cost is 2.50 per document.

Regarding the CRO, all their accounts are up to date and their next filing deadline is not until end of June (6 months after accounts end date) - so the CRO cannot legally do anything whatsoever.

However as ronan c says, the ODCE is where the letters should be sent to , its the only avenue I see open failing any news over the next couple of days. - BTW written letter is best as it leaves a paper trail and it has a better chance of an answer than e-mail / phone.


----------



## car

Ive been informed that  have been appointed liquidators for Langans and that there will be a creditors meeting on the 27th of this month.   Further information should be in newspapers shortly.  

Im not aware if any venue has been decided, who will be there or what will be discussed so no point in asking.


----------



## babsie00

rapresponse said:


> I bought two couches in Dec and like others kept getting the delivery date pushed back.  Luckily enough I had paid by visa and on hearing the news on Joe Duffy I sent off for charge back immediately, I've just checked my AIB banking online and all the money has been returned. Best of luck to everyone.


did aib make any contact with you about chargeback since you sent in your letter??i sent mine bout 2 weeks ago now same as yourself copy of receipt, irish times article etc and havent heard anything at all to even say the received the letter!


----------



## mcaul

car said:


> Ive been informed that  have been appointed liquidators for Langans and that there will be a creditors meeting on the 27th of this month. Further information should be in newspapers shortly.
> 
> Im not aware if any venue has been decided, who will be there or what will be discussed so no point in asking.


 
Assuming this is correct, here's how it works

Friel stafford are appointed by Jim Langan Furnitre Value ltd as provisional liquidators. They prepare a creditors list and write to each creditor & place adverts in the papers giving details of creditors meeting.

With your letter you will get a proxy form - if you do not want the company's choice of liquidator then you must look to see what other liquiator is looking to take this - kavanagh fennell & co are tigers in this field and will be looking to take this, -  if the value of the creditors oposing the company appointed liquidators is in excess of those in favour, then the floor's liquidator is appointed.

At the meeting, the directors or solicitors for the directors will give a statement and answer questions from the floor.

The letter you get from the liquidator will show you very quickly whether or not you'll get anything out of the liquidation. 

Finally a liquidation takes about 2 years in total from start to finish.


----------



## MandaC

mcaul said:


> I doubt if someone who worked in the store had this information & I would guess the son has exagerated just a little. If any store took in €1.7m in 6 weeks, they certainly would not be out of business.
> 
> Another scenario could be that they have ceased trading and have no tangible assets and therefore are awiting a third party (e.g creditor) to apply for liquidation - this may not happen as the third party would have to pay the costs of liquidation.
> 
> All in all there should be some sort of statement (even I'm surprised at the length this has gone on) - somebody could go to the cro website and obtain the last ldged accounts which would give details of the auditors and ask them for a statment. The cost is 2.50 per document.
> 
> Regarding the CRO, all their accounts are up to date and their next filing deadline is not until end of June (6 months after accounts end date) - so the CRO cannot legally do anything whatsoever.
> 
> However as ronan c says, the ODCE is where the letters should be sent to , its the only avenue I see open failing any news over the next couple of days. - BTW written letter is best as it leaves a paper trail and it has a better chance of an answer than e-mail / phone.



Hi Macaul, unless I am looking at another company, your information is incorrect - this company is not up to date with the CRO.  Their last Accounts were to April 2007 (from memory) with their last Annual Return either 31/01/2008.  They are late with their return and CRO will have written to them advising them of this.

I have already downloaded the Accounts filed with the CRO.  The Auditors were KMPG and I telephoned them and they did not know what was happening.  CRO had written to the Directors (about their late Annual Return)  This happens much quicker when the Company had been previously struck off as this one has.

This is one where there has been a lot going on behind the scenes on this one.  The Liquidator has a duty of care to report if there has been reckless trading to the ODCE and this may lead to a prosection for the Directors of Jim Langan Furniture Value Limited.

It will be interesting to see who has appointed the Liquidator, Directors or third party, my opinion would concur with one of MacCauls scenarios, that the Directors may have been sitting back waiting for someone else to appoint a Liquidator, though we will have to wait and see.

Personally, I would not be too quick to appoint another Liquidator - wait and see what the state of play is regarding the assets of the Company.   It has been my experience on these type of things that feelings are running high as people have lost money.  This often leads to the blame game.  I have seen people ranting and raving at these meetings with no real purpose until they run out of steam. Then and only then is the real question -what are the assets of the company expected to realise - and will I get my money back?

  The last accounts showed a charge over the property of the company by Bank of Scotland Ireland,  which does not appear to be satisfied.   Accounts indicate a loan (with a personal guarantee by Mr. Langan)  it will be interesting to see what else is left.  

Once the Liquidator has been confirmed (if it is Friel Stafford) or anyone else, I would write to them advising them that I am a creditor of Jim Langan's.  I would ensure that I am on the list of creditors, because, no offence, I dont know how accurate the books of JL's are.


----------



## Speedy534

Hi MandaC
Just to say thank you for all your helpful posts, for someone like myself who is pretty green in this area your information has been invaluable and I keep a regular check on this site. Unfortunately I did leave a cash deposit so all is not good for me. Vamos a ver manana es otra dia,,,, Speedy


----------



## mcaul

MandaC said:


> Hi Macaul, unless I am looking at another company, your information is incorrect - this company is not up to date with the CRO. Their last Accounts were to April 2007 (from memory) with their last Annual Return either 31/01/2008. They are late with their return and CRO will have written to them advising them of this.
> 
> .


 
5952344

1

B1C ANNUAL RETURN - GENERAL

B1 ANNUAL RETURN

Registered

10/06/2008

31/01/2008

Yes
19/06/2008​


Seems they submitted sveral documents together last year. The cro scanned hem in order that they were sent in so the 2007 accounts appear to be the last accounts filed, but the document lodged before the 2007 accounts are the 2008 accounts. - 

IMO, this will be an interesting case for business students to follow, as an example of how NOT to run a business.


----------



## MandaC

mcaul said:


> 5952344
> 
> 1
> 
> B1C ANNUAL RETURN - GENERAL
> 
> B1 ANNUAL RETURN
> 
> Registered
> 
> 10/06/2008
> 
> 31/01/2008
> 
> Yes
> 19/06/2008​
> 
> 
> Seems they submitted sveral documents together last year. The cro scanned hem in order that they were sent in so the 2007 accounts appear to be the last accounts filed, but the document lodged before the 2007 accounts are the 2008 accounts. -
> 
> IMO, this will be an interesting case for business students to follow, as an example of how NOT to run a business.



Definitely something strange.

Under that submission number, I can see the 2008 return and 2007 Accounts.
I cant see any 2008 Accounts?  Are they attached to the 2007 Accounts?  They did not need to submit them at the time (they are only due from this January and I would be surprised if they did lodge them, or even had them completed at that stage.)

They submitted approx. 5 documents together on 10th of June 2008.  All of these are registered on 19th June 2008. That is why 19th of June appears on the searches.    The reason for submitting these together at the time was that the company was struck off for non filing and had to bring their filings up to date.  

I can see :
B1 effective January 2007
Accounts Effective April 2006
B1 effective January 2008
Accounts effective April 2007
H1 effective 1/6/2008

My searches mirror what CRO have - that they should have filed their 2009 return in January 2009 (together with April 2008 Accounts, so they do not have until June to file anything.

Am I still missing something?


----------



## RonanC

MandaC, you are correct. 

The NARD is 31/01/2009. Last B1 filed was dated 31/01/2008 with accounts dated 30/04/2007. 

They are now late in filing the 2009 annual return


----------



## orlah

i just got a letter from Visa asking for 'Proof that i attempted to resolve the dispute with the merchant'    

did anyone else get this and how do i provide that???  I attached the notice from the paper that they had closed and i cant contact the merchant to get into a dispute with him!!

any ideas??


----------



## mercman

orlah said:


> any ideas??



How about printing the entire 137 posts of this thread as to how many and how difficult it is to enter into meaning full discussion concerning your loss.


----------



## orlah

fair point!!  It just seemed like a daft thing to ask for.... I was hoping someone else was asked for the same thing and resolved it with something.  I guess Ill just ring Visa tommorow and ask what they would suggest.  From previous threads listed it seems that they have paid some claims so they must accept the situation.


----------



## Smashbox

I would ring them and ask them about what they want you to show


----------



## rapresponse

babsie00 said:


> did aib make any contact with you about chargeback since you sent in your letter??i sent mine bout 2 weeks ago now same as yourself copy of receipt, irish times article etc and havent heard anything at all to even say the received the letter!



Hi there, No they made to contact with and I didn't think they were actually processing it without the liquidators being appointed.  I got a letter after I had had got to money back to notify me.  It did take about a month or so.  Goodluck with it.


----------



## MandaC

Here you go folks...this is all I have at the moment.  

*Creditors Meeting Scheduled.

Jim Langan Furniture Value Ltd 

Stillorgan Park Hotel, Stillorgan, Dublin 18 on the 27th April 2009 at 9:30 am*

Has anyone been notified of this yet.  I only heard today.


----------



## babsie00

when you say been notified,should anyone waiting on furniture have been notified by langans that this meeting was going ahead????i have tried ringing and calling out to the store and cannot contact anyone to find out whats happening the first i heard was when i checked on here??!!!!!


----------



## mcaul

MandaC said:


> Here you go folks...this is all I have at the moment.
> 
> *Creditors Meeting Scheduled.*
> 
> *Jim Langan Furniture Value Ltd *
> 
> *Stillorgan Park Hotel, Stillorgan, Dublin 18 on the 27th April 2009 at 9:30 am*
> 
> Has anyone been notified of this yet. I only heard today.


 
Early on a Monday morning - leaves very little time to get kids to school & travel to stillorgan with Monday morning traffic. 

If I was looking for a low turnout, I'd probably do the same! - Not that I'm suggesting that this has happened in the case!

If you are a customer waiting for furniture and you have paid a deposit, you should get a letter, but this is not always possible which is why it must be published in national newspapers.

If you are attending and have not had a letter make sure you bring your deposit details with you and arrive before 9.30am. - If you are not on the creditors list & don't have proof of mony being owed to you, you will be refused entry.

If you arrive after 9.30am you can also be refused entry.


----------



## MandaC

I dont think they can bank on a low turnout.....just hope there is a big room


----------



## babsie00

9.30 on a monday morning!I have to work as would many people who are owed money from them! what am I supposed to do I cant go to that meeting, in these times I cannot afford to take time off work!


----------



## jlodublin

Hi, there is a letter up there now, about this meeting, from today 14th April. Signed J Stafford.

*Proposed liquidation of Jim Langan Furniture Value Limited*


The Directors of the Company have decided to convene a creditors’ meeting of the Company to be held at the Stillorgan Park Hotel, Stillorgan on 27 April 2009 at 9.30am. 
For guidance as to what happens at a creditors meeting, you may go to our firm’s website, www.liquidation.ie, and insert “creditors meetings” into the search facility (near the top right hand side of the home page), which will take you to a page called “Creditors guide to creditors meetings”. This page explains the procedures at creditors meetings. 
It is the Directors’ responsibility to notify, in writing, all creditors of the Company. It is also the Directors’ responsibility to prepare a Statement of Affairs, which should detail the Company’s assets, and schedule out the Company’s creditors. The directors must post the notices to creditors no later than 17th April 2009.
The assets of the company will remain under the control of the directors until a liquidator is appointed on 27th April 2009.
If creditors of the Company do not receive written notice of the creditors meeting, they are still entitled to attend the creditors’ meeting itself and notify the Directors of their claim.
Creditors, if they wish, may write directly to the Company notifying it of their claim in advance of the creditors meeting. In this regard, I understand that the Directors propose to change the current registered address of the Company in Liffey Valley Retail Park to the following address:
            Parkside House
            Main Street
            Castleknock
            Dublin 15
It will not be possible for any liquidator to predict what the prospects of a dividend for unsecured creditors will be until their investigations are completed.
It is apparent that a large number of individuals have paid deposits but have not yet received their furniture. Accordingly, a key task for any liquidator in the liquidation of the Company will be to carry out an investigation into these deposits and, inter alia, determine if any specific furniture has been specifically allocated to such deposits. If certain furniture has been specifically allocated to certain depositors, then it is likely that those depositors will be allowed to collect those items of furniture provided they pay the balance of the monies due. If furniture has not been specifically allocated in respect of a deposit paid, then the depositor will have an unsecured claim against the Company. It is likely that a complicating factor in the liquidation itself will be that certain trade creditors may claim Retention of Title on the remaining stock.
As the proposed liquidator of the Company I am unable to provide any further guidance to the creditors of the Company. However, if I am appointed liquidator, one of my immediate priorities will be to secure the Company’s books and records, secure the remaining assets and determine what claims depositors and Retention of Title creditors have on such assets. In this regard, I am making provisional plans to organise staffing, security, insurance and valuers.
If I am appointed liquidator of the Company I propose to keep the creditors of the Company (and in particular those individuals who have paid deposits) updated on a regular basis by updating this web page.

Jim Stafford
14 April 2009


----------



## AnnDev1

Do you know who has been appointed as creditor to Jim Langan?


----------



## MandaC

AnnDev1 said:


> Do you know who has been appointed as creditor to Jim Langan?



This is a meeting of creditors with a view to appointing a Liquidator.  Anyone who is owed money is a creditor.


----------



## babsie00

hi all!got my chargeback from visa today so happy!heard nothin from them and like previous posters didnt think they were processing my application at all only realised they had credited my account toady when on my online banking!so thanks to everyone for the advice and best of luck to anyone still trying to sort out their situations!!!


----------



## tosullivan

got a letter yesterday from cc company asking for proof that we have tried to get money back through liquidator.  Any idea who they are?


----------



## MandaC

tosullivan said:


> got a letter yesterday from cc company asking for proof that we have tried to get money back through liquidator.  Any idea who they are?



The Liquidator is due to be appointed at the Creditors meeting on 27th April.  All of the details are in the post two or three  posts above by jlodublin.
by the way, Is anyone going?


----------



## RonanC

FYI

The registered office of Jim Langan Furniture Value Ltd has changed on foot of a B2 filed with the CRO on 15/04/09. B2 signed by Jim Langan.

New registered office: 

Parkside House
Main Street
Castleknock
Dublin 15


----------



## JY09

IF you got your money do you have to go to this meeting?


----------



## MandaC

JY09 said:


> IF you got your money do you have to go to this meeting?




If you got your money, you are no longer a creditor and there is no point in you going.


----------



## mcaul

Even if you are owed money you don't need to go to the meeting. It simply gives you a chance to find out what. in the directors opinion, causd the closure of the company and get information about how much the company owes & how much the company has.


----------



## MandaC

mcaul said:


> Even if you are owed money you don't need to go to the meeting. It simply gives you a chance to find out what. in the directors opinion, causd the closure of the company and get information about how much the company owes & how much the company has.



If I was owed money, I would definitely go


----------



## debscon

MandaC said:


> If I was owed money, I would definitely go


 i cant go would love to go i got forms with the letter i don know what i ment to fill in on them???


----------



## debscon

do i have send the forms back to get my money back i live in clondalkin cant get to stillorgan with a 14month old baby


----------



## mcaul

debscon said:


> do i have send the forms back to get my money back i live in clondalkin cant get to stillorgan with a 14month old baby


 
 I guess you have proxy voting forms. You can sign this and efectively this mens you are voting for / against the proposed liquidtor.

Not sending it in makes no difference to your claim


----------



## Dcasey05

Folks, I received a letter about the meeting tomorrow. Do you need to go in order to get your money back? Or does the fact that I have received a letter confirm that they know that they owe me money, and that I should expect it when a liquidator is appointed?


----------



## mim45

didnt make the meeting this morning, anybody else go?


----------



## MandaC

Jim Stafford of Friel Stafford was appointed liquidator on 27th April 2009.  If I did not go and was a creditor, I would make sure I wrote in the Liquidator to ensure I am on the list.

Details for Friel Stafford here.



How did the meeting go, did anyone go.


----------



## mim45

dosent look good when you look at figures as posted on website above ( defecit of over 3m!) seems there will be nothing left for unsecured creditors, lesson learned always pay by credit card or leave with goods in hand


----------



## AnnDev1

Meeting was a complete farce, totally out of control. Started 1/2 hour late, no microphone available until circa 1 hour into meeting after all hell had broken loose. Too many people talking at the same time about their own circumstances, nothing constructive came out of it i.e. where do we all go from here. You would wonder if they had planted people to deliberately disrupt the event. He is €3.4M in debt and am assuming liquidator & Stillorgan Park & the heavies that surrounded him etc will require payments on top of that.
A guy from Revenue Commissioners was in attendance and couldn't figure out how he had lost €2M in such a short space of time.
Jim himself read a statement which would be very good if a copy could be obtained to use.
His solicitor is Brendan Curran haven't yet established where he is from


----------



## MandaC

AnnDev1 said:


> Meeting was a complete farce, totally out of control. Started 1/2 hour late, no microphone available until circa 1 hour into meeting after all hell had broken loose. Too many people talking at the same time about their own circumstances, nothing constructive came out of it i.e. where do we all go from here. You would wonder if they had planted people to deliberately disrupt the event. He is €3.4M in debt and am assuming liquidator & Stillorgan Park & the heavies that surrounded him etc will require payments on top of that.
> A guy from Revenue Commissioners was in attendance and couldn't figure out how he had lost €2M in such a short space of time.
> Jim himself read a statement which would be very good if a copy could be obtained to use.
> His solicitor is Brendan Curran haven't yet established where he is from



Just as I expected.  I have been to many of these meetings where people just talk over each other about themselves. and it is most unhelpful.  Only when they are finished ranting it it possible to even think!

I would not think there were people planted, most of these meetings end up this way. Human nature.

If you look at the Liquidators statement on the website, it does not look likely that the unsecured creditors will get their funds back.  Also, from the accounts, it looks like the rates for 2008 were unpaid, so cashflow seems to have been a bit tight there for a while.


----------



## mcaul

my tuppemce worth

Looking at the figures I would surmise as follows.

1. Unsecured creditors will not receive any payment from the liquidation.

2. A case of fradulent trading could be made as the company took in over €1m in deposits which I would hazard were primarily after September 2008. From the accounts statement provided   [broken link removed] , it is quite conciveable that the company knowingly took customers deposits in the knowledge that the company was insolvent. - This potentailly holds the directors personally liable for certain debts. - A solicitor would be best to advise on this.

Unfortunately this type of operation affects the many decent furniture retailers out there.


----------



## John Rambo

I have absolutely no connection with this company.

I find the attitude of Irish people to these situations pretty appalling. Yes a consumer may be down a few hundred euro but people have lost their jobs and someone has lost their business. Not paying deposits by credit card is lunacy especially given the state of the economy. And frankly the concept of attending a creditors meeting to moan about the couch I didn't receive whilst surrounded by banks, Revenue etc is a bit of a foreigner to me.


----------



## MandaC

mcaul said:


> my tuppemce worth
> 
> Looking at the figures I would surmise as follows.
> 
> 1. Unsecured creditors will not receive any payment from the liquidation.
> 
> 2. A case of fradulent trading could be made as the company took in over €1m in deposits which I would hazard were primarily after September 2008. From the accounts statement provided   [broken link removed] , it is quite conciveable that the company knowingly took customers deposits in the knowledge that the company was insolvent. - This potentailly holds the directors personally liable for certain debts. - A solicitor would be best to advise on this.
> 
> Unfortunately this type of operation affects the many decent furniture retailers out there.



Yes, unfortunately it does not look like any unsecured creditors will get their money back, unless the furniture is allocated to them. 

The Liquidator will have to make a report to ODCE and it will probably follow on from there if there is a reckless trading angle to it.   Probably be disqualified from being a director - not a big deal considering the amount of money that is in question.

These creditors meetings are always a disaster.  People are angry that they have lost money (and quite rightly so) but spend hours having their say and making wild accusations that help no one.  Only when they run out of steam can any order ascend on the meeting.


----------



## eady5

John Rambo said:


> I have absolutely no connection with this company.
> 
> I find the attitude of Irish people to these situations pretty appalling. Yes a consumer may be down a few hundred euro but people have lost their jobs and someone has lost their business. Not paying deposits by credit card is lunacy especially given the state of the economy. And frankly the concept of attending a creditors meeting to moan about the couch I didn't receive whilst surrounded by banks, Revenue etc is a bit of a foreigner to me.



I find your attitude stinks, people have lost their own jobs as well as having been done out of their deposits, some who had paid extremely large amounts of money and are out of pocket and are upset and have no way of getting it back.

I myself used a laser card to pay a deposit something I don't normally do, I was not aware that like a lot of people who have posted to this site, that you weren't covered.
I am at the loss of €500, which is something I have to accept!!

If you also read the posts from others you will see a lot of people have lost their jobs who paid deposits, they have no jobs , no sofa, no chance of getting their money back and no way of buying new furniture !!!

Show some compassion !!!


----------



## mcaul

John Rambo said:


> I have absolutely no connection with this company.
> 
> I find the attitude of Irish people to these situations pretty appalling. Yes a consumer may be down a few hundred euro but people have lost their jobs and someone has lost their business. Not paying deposits by credit card is lunacy especially given the state of the economy. And frankly the concept of attending a creditors meeting to moan about the couch I didn't receive whilst surrounded by banks, Revenue etc is a bit of a foreigner to me.


 
Generally the attitude in Ireland of a firm in dificulties trying its best but failing and going out of business is very good. 

In the case of Jim langan, it seems from the statements given by the liquidator that a rack of customer deposits were taken (€1m+) when it should have been quite obvious to the directors that the company had little or no chance of trading out of its financial position. Also, assuming that the deposits were taken in the 4 months prior to closing, what were the deposits used for? - Looks like they were used to pay off other debt rather than pay towards the manufacture of the furniture ordered. 

Again looking at the figures, it could be construed that there was no intention that the deposits would be used against the pruchase of the orders placed by customers. - Potetially this is fraud and therefore gives the disgruntled customers of Jim Langan every reason to feel agrieved at the way this happened.

If you check my previous posts - I gave a very neutral line on this, but now that the figures have been published, its quite obvious that reckless trading has been taking place.



This will be my last post on this, as I don't have the qualifications to make further comment as it is now in an official liquidators hands and ODCE will make eventual judgement on this.


----------



## debscon

i think its mad after reading the liquidator notes they going to sell all the furniture to other shops not the people who paid for them it just vcant be right!!


----------



## mim45

If the furniture we paid deposits on was never ordered would I be right in thinking this would then be fraud? Lazor does pay out in cases of fruad so would those who paid by lazor then be covered?


----------



## babsie00

i read on the liquidators website that any display stock that they had was being sent for public auction to wilson auctions naas road and customers were invited to come to the auction.ive emailed the company to find out when the auction is being held but no reply yet does anyone know when it is going to happen?
 i think its a disgrace that if you have paid cash you will not receive your furniture and more than likely no money either yet they can go and sell off the display furniture like that.luckily i paid by cc so i got my money back and id be interested in seeing if i could get the stuff i ordered from the auction as i have not seen anything i like since.

also states on the liquidators site that only 12 pieces of furniture had been alocated to particular customers and those customers were contacted on thursday to collect it so unless you were contacted thats it!!


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## debscon

i was going mad to hear the furniture i paid for is being sold in auction that cant be right customers should be given chance to pick something out of it 1st to the value of what they paid!!!!!!we just gvot robbed blind in this country


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## MandaC

babsie00 said:


> also states on the liquidators site that only 12 pieces of furniture had been alocated to particular customers!!



Pretty poor considering the amount of deposits on hand.  Would love to see a full set of accounts to see where the money went.  Also inviting customers to come and bid for the furniture they already have paid for is insult to injury.  

However, if the furniture was not allocated to customers, it is outside of the Liquidator's power to give them to customers now or give them their value, because the aim of the Liquidator is to get as much money in as possible and the Unsecured creditors are way down the pecking order.


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## twofor1

babsie00 said:


> i read on the liquidators website that any display stock that they had was being sent for public auction to wilson auctions naas road and customers were invited to come to the auction.ive emailed the company to find out when the auction is being held but no reply yet does anyone know when it is going to happen?



   The liquidator has an add in today’s Business Post.

  Warehouse stock will be sold by private treaty to trade buyers, min purchase €3K + vat.

  Showroom stock, shop fittings and equipment will be auctioned at Wilsons Auction Rooms on Sat 30th May. Auction catalogue available shortly online at www.wilsonsauctions.com


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## babsie00

if the warehouse stock is going to be sold to trade only with minimum of 3k why invite customers to go along!!!


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## Ghodadaba

John Rambo said:


> I have absolutely no connection with this company.
> 
> I find the attitude of Irish people to these situations pretty appalling. Yes a consumer may be down a few hundred euro but people have lost their jobs and someone has lost their business. Not paying deposits by credit card is lunacy especially given the state of the economy. And frankly the concept of attending a creditors meeting to moan about the couch I didn't receive whilst surrounded by banks, Revenue etc is a bit of a foreigner to me.


 
I find the above attitude appaling, myself. Some people are down several thousand euro, and are perfectly entitled to try everything they can to get their money back. For some people the money they lost could be the equivalent of a couple of months take home pay.


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## Pat2000

Just wondering if anyone’s been to the creditors meeting? I had to leave after a couple of hours due to other commitments. When I was there, the opinion seemed to be overwhelmingly against voting for Jim Langans chosen liquidator. I since heard that guy was voted as liquidator at that meeting. Can anyone tell me what caused the change in opinion?


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## mcaul

Pat2000 said:


> Just wondering if anyone’s been to the creditors meeting? I had to leave after a couple of hours due to other commitments. When I was there, the opinion seemed to be overwhelmingly against voting for Jim Langans chosen liquidator. I since heard that guy was voted as liquidator at that meeting. Can anyone tell me what caused the change in opinion?


 
I'll answer this one as its a general question -

At a liquidation it is the value of creditors attending & the proxy votes (votes sent by post) that carries the day. Customers with deposits who did not attend would have got a proxy form. By sending this in and voting against the directors nominated liquidator it would have helped, but in this case you would have needed a few hundred to do so and also get the support of the revenue commissioners who i presume are the largest creditor. As Freil Stafford are very well regarded in liquidations, it would be unlikely that revenue would vote against them, so in all probablility the vote in favour of friel stafford was probably substantial. 

If its any consolation to anybody, they are meticulous in their work.


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## Silver2

How long is it taking to receive the Visa Charge backs from the Visa Companies?


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## babsie00

hey silver2 my chargeback took about 6 weeks! I sent in my letter and all the bits and bobs heard nothing from visa after that until i was checking my online banking and saw the credit on my account!! still have received no communication from visa about the case whatsoever!! if you havent heard anything and its still only 6 weeks since you sent your letter(assuming you have done so!) then id give it a while and keep an eye on your account


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## frash

[broken link removed] 

Sat 30th


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## Annerie

Apparantly there is a new furniture shop now in Carrickmines that looks EXACTLY like the old Jim Langans store. The furniture are even in the same places as before. Anyone been in it?


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## mcaul

Annerie said:


> Apparantly there is a new furniture shop now in Carrickmines that looks EXACTLY like the old Jim Langans store. The furniture are even in the same places as before. Anyone been in it?


 
My guess is someone has taken over the lease and has utilised the current fitout style so as to keep the set-up costs to a minimum. - I doubt if the retail park re-let it to anyone connected with Jim langan as they were owed a considerable amount of rent.


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## jack2009

If the liquidator sold any of the assets of the company to a connected party he should have notified us as creditors of the company!


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