# Estate agent keeping fees



## z106 (22 Sep 2007)

I have tenants that moved out after 8 months of a 12 month contract.

At the beginning I got an estate agent to find tenants for a fee of 5%.

So - the estate agent took out the fee for the entire 12 months all in the first month.

So - the rent was €1,400 a month i.e. €16,800.
THe estate agent took out €840 (i.e. 5% of €16,800) out of the first months rent.

THe tenant has now left after 8 of the 12 months and the estate agent says they will not reimburse me the 5% for the remaining 4months.

Are they entitled to do this?


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## fintans (22 Sep 2007)

Not sure. But the main lesson from this for me is that you should sort out tenants yourself via daft.ie and save the hefty fees that you are paying to letting agents. I have done this with my apartment because I wouldn't give letting agents, who are generally arrogant tossers, a cent of my hard-earned rent.


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## DublinAgent (22 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Well if the tenant is leaving after only 8 months depending on your lease which any good agent will be using you will be entitled to keep the deposit. The agency should release your property and instead of charging 5% again on 12 month lease they should charge it only on 8 months but sign up a 12 month lease. i doubt the agency will repay a percentage back of the fee as they have done there jobits the tenant that is messing everything up
If you need any advice feel free to pm me.


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## rabbit (22 Sep 2007)

fintans said:


> Not sure. But the main lesson from this for me is that you should sort out tenants yourself via daft.ie and save the hefty fees that you are paying to letting agents. I have done this with my apartment because I wouldn't give letting agents, who are generally arrogant tossers, a cent of my hard-earned rent.


 
I agree. Depending on your location in the country, there are other means of advertising for tenants eg in some areas local papers work well. Letting agents are generally a waste of money - you will find better quality tenants yourself for less.


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## z106 (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

ya - you're right.

I think the service they carry out is beneficial in that you have no hassles at all - however the charge is quite hefty.
6% for finding tenants (i got the above mentioned one for 5% as I had  2 apts with them) - followed by 7% for managing.
At least that is what a very well known dublin based estate agent charges.

That's a whopping 13% for teh all-in deal !!!

In reality the hassle isn't that bad to merit paying 13%.


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## mo3art (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Normal letting fees for an estate agent would be equivalent to one year's rent achieved.

The facts
You appointed the estate agent to find you an acceptable tenant.  They obviously found you one and therefore their fees were due the day that the tenant moved into your property.  Your tenant has decided to move out after 8 months, this is a common risk when you take on a tenant.  You have to bear the cost of letting the property for only 8 months, and yet paying a full 12 months fee.

Your options
Go back to your original estate agent and ask them to relet the property at a discounted fee.
Find another estate agent/property management company who charges on a per month occupied basis rather than an annual rent acheived.  It could be pricey in the long run - many charge up to €60 per month for a residential property but it would bring peace of mind and you shouldn't have to pay for a vacant property.  Along with that they will also manage any calls on the property etc, etc.
Put it all down to a bad experience and advertise the property in the local paper/noticeboards and manage the property yourself.


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## Thomas22 (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*



DublinAgent said:


> Well if the tenant is leaving after only 8 months depending on your lease which any good agent will be using you will be entitled to keep the deposit. The agency should release your property and instead of charging 5% again on 12 month lease they should charge it only on 8 months but sign up a 12 month lease. i doubt the agency will repay a percentage back of the fee as they have done there jobits the tenant that is messing everything up
> If you need any advice feel free to pm me.



That's completely incorrect. You are legally only entitled to keep the deposit for damages done to the property not for breaking the lease early.


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## z106 (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*



Thomas22 said:


> That's completely incorrect. You are legally only entitled to keep the deposit for damages done to the property not for breaking the lease early.


 
??

I think you misunderstood the posters commest thomas.

He didn't mention anything about keeping onto the security deposit.

He was referring to the fee to teh agent.


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## z106 (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Sorry Thomas - i stand corrected - the poster did indeed mention about keeping teh deposit.
You are quite right - a landlord  cannot keep the deposit.

The tenant did indeed give me the months notice as specified in the lease.


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## DublinAgent (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

As I said it depends on the lease the agent used, if he used a rock solid lease you are entitled to hold on to his deposit no matter how much notice he gives. The tenant has commited them selves to your property for a year and you have commited the property to him for the year. Im an agent within an agency who use a good lease and I'll be honest landlords do it. 
It all depends on the sitation, why are they leaving, are they allowing you to do showings while they are still in the property, is it in a good condition through out etc


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## minion (23 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Granted agents might be needed if you own property far away from where you live, but the price paid for the amount of work ust be the best money maker in the world.

I think agents fees are a rip-off.

Agents dont have to do anything at all to let places these days. Their fee of 1 years rent is extortionate for a few phonecalls and a turn of the key.

Anyone who uses an agent needs to seriously look at what they are doing.
Ask yourself what do you get for the price you are paying from using a letting agent?

Ask yourself - Could you do this yourself?   What am i really paying for?


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## paddyodoors (24 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

I was looking into using an agent recently and came accross this crowd:

http://www.dublinletting.ie/

Nice a responsive when I contacted them and came around for a valuation quickly. See these 2 quotes from the webiste:

If agreement is breached over 12 months we will refill property free of charge. 
4% letting 7% management 

Assume that the free "Refill" applies only if you are also using the 7% mgmt service.

Paddy


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## Shano79 (24 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Guys

I just wanted to settle this 'once and for all' so to speak.

When an individual signs a lease and hands over a deposit they are making a legal agreement saying among other things that they will keep the premises in good repair (reaonable wear and tear accepted) and that they will honour the durational obligations of the lease. Usually residential leases are signed for a period of one year. If a tenant signs a lease saying that they will stay in the property and pay rent for one year only to move out after 8 months then the landlord is perfectly entitled to keep the deposit as the tenant has broken the agreement. It's that simple.

If a Tenant really wants to leave a property before the 12 months have expired, the tenant has the option of subletting the property to another individual who will take on the lease. Usually the tenant will need to obtin the consent of the landlord to sublet the property. Although the landlord cannot unreasonably withhold this consent.

It doesn't matter whether a tennant gives one months notice if the 12 month term has not expired. The landlord is entitled to keep the deposit. 

The whole purpose of the deposit is to protect the landlord in the event that the agreement is broken or damage is caused to the property.

Thomas 22 is completly incorrect.


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## Thomas22 (24 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*



Shano79 said:


> Guys
> 
> I just wanted to settle this 'once and for all' so to speak.
> 
> ...



I don't think I am to be honest

Only in exceptional circumstances is the landlord allowed to keep the deposit. Please see below from www.threshold.ie 
Under the Heading
Signing a Lease
6. Can the tenant leave before the end of the lease?
If a tenant wants to leave before the end of the lease (and there is no break clause), the tenant needs to:

    * Find someone else to replace the existing tenant in the lease;
    * Write to the landlord, requesting permission to assign the lease to this new person.

If the landlord refuses consent, the tenant can give the landlord notice of termination and leave. The notice period is calculated by how long the tenant has lived there.

Under the section 
Getting back your Deposit

8. When you leave, your landlord must promptly return your deposit. The landlord may only keep some or all of the deposit to cover rent arrears or the costs of repairing any damage above normal wear and tear.

9. Remember your rent deposit belongs to you, not to the landlord.


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## DublinAgent (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Well said Shano,
Thomas it all depeneds on the lease you use and if it states in it that they will lose deposit if the lease is terminated early.

For example say A landlord has a small 2 bed in city centre, the landlord lease's it at a busy period in the rental calender say September and acheive's 1400per month on a 12month lease. Everything is fine and then out of know where in May the tenants give notice to quit the lease. 

The property is now going to be empty at the same time as a few hundred properties around the city centre as alot of students are renting for the academic year only or like the landlords own situation tenants signed a 12 month lease and leave after nine.

The landlord now has a problem he will not acheive 1400 per month in June for a small 2 bed, in fact with all the competition around he may only acheive 1300 per month and it may take him a week to get tenants move them in etc. The landlord is now down 1200 a year on rent and it has taken him a week down time to rent costing a further 300, 100 advertisng costs, 100 cleaning and alot of his time as he rents it out himself. So all together he is down 1700 euro and it has taken up alot of his time because a tenant broke a lease. Even though the tenant stayed for 9 months in this case study he has seriously messed up the landlords rental patern and cost him 300 euro even after keepin the deposit.

The fact of the story is the tenants commit themselves to a 12 month lease (in depth lease) and sign the contract then they either stick to it or if they leave early they _COULD_ lose all the deposit.
By the way any renters that are reading this not all landlords want to be greedy and hold on to your deposit, alot of them just want to be fair.


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## Bronte (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

I copied and pasted this from the PRTB website - seems if you have a fixed term one year lease a landlord can keep the deposit if the tenant leaves early......... One would assume that all the letting agencies would know these rules and would protect themselves and their clients (the landlords) by ensuring they had ensured new tenants signed a fixed term lease. 

"Equally, a tenant who has entered into a tenancy for a fixed term is bound by the terms of the contract entered into and may not terminate the tenancy before expiry of the fixed term unless the contract so allows or there has been a breach of the landlord's obligations. Therefore if a tenant ends a 1-year lease tenancy 4 months before the term is due to expire, the tenant is liable under that contract for the rent as it falls due for the remainder of the term unless the landlord succeeds in re-letting the dwelling (although a landlord is required to mitigate his/her loss by re-letting the dwelling as speedily as possible). In such circumstances it is at the landlord's discretion whether or not to retain from the deposit any outstanding rent due under the lease tenancy."


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## polo1 (27 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

So if Tenants sign a lease for 12 months but decide to vacate it after 6 months and give the appropriate notice to the Landlord - am I right in understanding that the landlord is still entitled to keep the deposit cause the tenants broke the lease?


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## z106 (27 Sep 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

That seems to be what the punters are saying alright.

What i don't understand though is why must they give 1 months notice?

Like - if they're gonna lose their deposit anyway why bother with the 1 months notice?


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## mohenley (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*

Hi

Could someone advsie me where I could get a short term rental contract template? I am looking to rent out apartment myself so looking for a standard template contract. Can anyone advise?

Thanks


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## MrMan (22 Oct 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*



> What i don't understand though is why must they give 1 months notice?



The one ommission has been that if the landlord has a new tenant in place in less than one month after tenant has moved out then he cannot keep all of the deposit for loss of rent. So the reason for giving one months notice is the landlord should be looking for a new tenant during this period. It is always best if the tenant keeps an eye out aswell. The landlord is obligated to find another tenant as soon as possible in order to give the tenant back their deposit.


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## minion (27 Oct 2007)

*Re: Estae agent keeping fees*



polo1 said:


> So if Tenants sign a lease for 12 months but decide to vacate it after 6 months and give the appropriate notice to the Landlord - am I right in understanding that the landlord is still entitled to keep the deposit cause the tenants broke the lease?



The way i read it is that the landlord is entitled to charge the tennant 6 months rent - to the end of the lease, if he cannot get another suitable tennant in for the remainder of the lease.  And if the tennant was to find another to take over the lease then they would have to be deemed suitable by the landlord.
Though in practice the landlord would have to go to court to cover this and would probably just keep the deposit instead.


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