# Renting Apartment 3 months. Can they make me leave?



## Klesser (25 Jul 2007)

I moved into a rented apartment about 3 months ago. I have signed a lease for 1 year. Just got a call from landlady to say her sons house went on fire and him and his wife have nowhere to stay so she wants me out ASAP so they can move in!

Surely she cant ask me to leave so her son can move in?


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## CCOVICH (25 Jul 2007)

I very much doubt it-especially not for the reasons given.  Have you had a look at www.prtb.ie to see what they have to say about your rights?  Does the lease say anything about unilateral termination?


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## moondance (25 Jul 2007)

That's awful klesser, I can't see how they could get away with it. Citizens information may also be able to advise you.


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## Klesser (25 Jul 2007)

Lads i just checked with citizens information and because i havent been there for over 6 months they can give ask me to leave without giving a reason and even if i had been there for longer it would still be an acceptable reason to give me notice to quit.  It seems I have 28 days to find a new place!
It is so hard to find a decent place in kilkenny for a mother and a child.  I was looking for ages before i found this apartment.  This is so unfair.  Anyone any ideas what to do?


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## moondance (25 Jul 2007)

In that case there isn't much you can do apart from start looking for somewhere else. Contact all the local estate agents and letting agents and get them to search for you. Have you any family nearby that you could stay with in the short term if you don't get sorted in time?


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## Seagull (25 Jul 2007)

Tell the owner that you will be staying for the full 28 days. That might cause them to look elsewhere for accommodation for the son and family.


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

Klesser said:


> Anyone any ideas what to do?


Maybe double check by, for example, giving Threshold a shout? For example [broken link removed] makes me wonder...


> The amount of notice depends on how long you have
> been living in the accommodation. The minimum notice
> period is 28 days, although there are exceptions. Your
> landlord must give you a reason if you have been living in
> ...


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## Staples (25 Jul 2007)

Please contact Threshold.

http://www.threshold.ie/

From browsing thie site, it seems there's a disctinction between tenents with a lease and those without.  If no lease exists, a landlord can give you 28 days notice to leave within the first six months but a signed lease offers you more protection.  The site isn't specific so it might be worth contacting Threshold directly.

You might also consider a solictor.  A lease is a legal contract so it must surely offfer some protection.  Why have it otherwise?


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

Snap!


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## Klesser (25 Jul 2007)

Thanks guys,  Il contact threshold in the morning when im a little calmer.  I really hope i dont have to move again so soon but even if they dont legally have a right to make me move Im pretty sure they could make it difficult for me if I stay.  Id like to repeat its not fair!!


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

Klesser said:


> even if they dont legally have a right to make me move Im pretty sure they could make it difficult for me if I stay.


If you did have a legal right to stay (and the _Threshold _snippet at least holds out that possibility) then they would have no right to "make things difficult" for you and you should not have to put up with such tactics if they did arise. What notice period (if any) does the lease specify?


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

[broken link removed] is also pertinent (highlighting is mine):


> *Fixed-term tenancies
> 
> * A fixed-term tenancy is an agreement that covers a specific amount of time. The agreement is generally set down in writing. This written contract is called a lease. A lease may be for any period, but can range from as little as six months up to a year or more. The lease will state how much rent you have to pay, how often you have to pay it and other conditions. *You are strongly advised to make sure that you understand the terms of the lease before you sign it.* A lease is a binding contract between you and the landlord and contains important information on the terms of your tenancy. (In particular, it should contain information on what will happen if either of you break the terms of the agreement.)


 Note that the 28 days notice in the first 6 months seems to apply to "Part 4" tenancies whatever they are....


> *Part 4 tenancies*
> 
> Your landlord can terminate a tenancy without giving a reason during the first six months of the tenancy.


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## Madangan (25 Jul 2007)

Klesser said:


> I moved into a rented apartment about 3 months ago. I have signed a lease for 1 year. Just got a call from landlady to say her sons house went on fire and him and his wife have nowhere to stay so she wants me out ASAP so they can move in!


 
If you have a 0ne year lease then unless there is a break clause in it then you cannot be made leave.

The PRTB does not really apply as your written lease in this case gives you even better rights than the Act. 

If your lanllady wants to make things difficult you can equally make things difficult for her. First ask her if she has met her obligation to The PRTB by registering with them,tell her you will get them on board to resolve the dispute for you(by the time they get around to dealing with the dispute/telling you they cant help the year will be up as according to other AAM threads they are very slow).

If you dont want/have the stomach to fight tell her you will leave in a period that suits you say 3 months provided she gives you a sweetener.e.g a rent free period etc..


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## MrMan (25 Jul 2007)

Do you really need the hassle of contacting solicitors etc when your best bet is to just start looking for a new place. Could you ask the landlord if they can try and organise a new place for you (they may have contacts), pointing out that you would move quickly if something suitable (at right price) becomes available. If you have them working for you you will have a chance of greater long term stability for you and your child . It isn't fair that after all the time spent looking you are being asked to leave, but the flipside is I doubt the landlords family are happy to go through the trauma of losing their house to a fire. 
I don't think it is in your interest to fight your corner to stay the 12 months ,but do state that you cannot leave until suitable, affordable accommodation is arranged, even if it means staying beyond 28 days.


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## Ron Burgundy (25 Jul 2007)

MrMan said:


> Do you really need the hassle of contacting solicitors etc when your best bet is to just start looking for a new place.



thats what most landlords expect, maybe if more people in this contry stood up for themselves this sort of thing wouldn't arise as much.

I'd check all available avenues and suit yourself, a contract has 2 sides and both should be lived up to and not just the person renting.


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## TreeTiger (26 Jul 2007)

I imagine that a typical rental contract would have a clause somewhere to cover what happens if either party wishes to terminate the contract early.

 Say, for example, you were transferred in your job to another part of the country three months into a 1 year rental contract.  You would obviously hope to be able to terminate the contract rather than have to pay for the full year, but I imagine you would expect to have to pay a penalty for breaking the contract, maybe lose a month's deposit or have to pay until the property is re-let?

 The boot being on the other foot, I would expect that it is reasonable that the landlord should have to suffer a financial loss for terminating your agreement early. As far as I am aware, a landlord may terminate in the first 6 months only in certain circumstances, such as tenant breaching obligations, property being sold/refurbished and such like. I doubt the landlord's current circumstances would meet the guidelines.

 I know you've talked to Citizens Information, but have you talked to the PRTB?  A non-national friend of mine had a rental problem recently and I spoke to them on his behalf (saved the language issue) and found them very helpful. You can call them on 888 2960 Mon-Fri between 10-1 & 2-4.

 Good luck.


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## pc7 (26 Jul 2007)

I know its unfair Kleeser but if her sons place really burnt down you can't blame her for wanting to help him out, tough on you but rents seem cheap in Kilkenny from just having a quick look on Daft, agree with other posters maybe ask the landlord to help you out finding somewhere, giving references etc. Good luck


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## Morgause (26 Jul 2007)

OP what does it say in your lease regarding notice should your landlord wish to terminate the lease?


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## MrMan (26 Jul 2007)

Ron Burgundy, one must look at the big picture and assess which will have the greatest benefit to you; stand up and fight and risk losing reference, roof over your head etc, or make the landlord work in your favour to provide you and your child with alternative accommodation. Your priniciples should take second place to whats best for your kids.

Regarding the landlord taking a financial hit, as far as i know within first 6 months landlords do not have to provide a reason for ending the contract. If you have a fixed term 1 year with no clauses for terminating the lease on the landlords side, you might have a case to stay, but again do you really think it would be a pleasant relationship. i wouldn't look for a pay off either cause to me thats just kicking someone when they are down, they are not simply the big bad landlord, their family has suffered a trauma that luckily didn't end in tragedy


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## bacchus (26 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Note that the 28 days notice in the first 6 months seems to apply to "Part 4" tenancies whatever they are....


 
*Security of Tenure (Part 4)*
Security of tenure is based on 4-year cycles from the date Part 4 of the Act comes into force (i.e. 1st September 2004).

The landlord can terminate without specifying grounds during the first 6 months, but once a tenancy has lasted 6 months, the landlord will be able to terminate that tenancy (known as a “Part 4 tenancy”) during the following 31/2 years only if any of the following apply;

the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
the dwelling is no longer suited to the occupants accommodation needs (e.g. overcrowded)
the landlord intends to sell the dwelling in the next 3 months
the landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation
the landlord intends to refurbish the dwelling
the landlord intends to change the business use of the dwelling.
The grounds for recovery of possession listed above are subject to certain procedures to prevent their abuse.

At the end of the 4 years, a new tenancy will commence and the cycle begins again on the same basis as outlined above.


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

Thanks _bacchus _- so, given that _CitizensInformation _lists leased tenancies and part 4 tenancies separately it would seem that the lease in this case means that it is not a part 4 tenancy. In which case checking the lease to see what it says about termination/eviction would seem to be the most logical thing to do?


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## bacchus (26 Jul 2007)

Clubman,
My understanding is that the "Part 4 tenancy" is not related to the type of tenancy (e.g. periodic or fixed) by rather the time the tenant has been renting.

Part 4 Tenancy is a 4-year cycle
0 to 6 months : landlord can ask you to leave without any explanation
7 to 48 months: landlord must justify why tenant has to leave
49 to 54: landlord can ask you to leave without any explanation
etc....

I am open to correction.


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## MOB (26 Jul 2007)

Folks,

Without getting into the nitty gritty of 'part 4' etc., if there is a one year lease and if the lease itself does not provide for early termination, then the tenant is absolutely entitled to stay put for the year.  

It seems to me wholly possible that there is no early termination clause, and that the Landlord simply does not understand that the tenant has an entitlement.   This is not to criticise the landlord.  Many people do not understand the rights which tenants enjoy under a lease.


The Landlord's son and daughter in law have the trouble and inconvenience of moving to a new home.  I don't see that there is any nett gain to humanity by having two families forced into this situation.  If I were the tenant, if I were up to date on my rent, and if I were not reliant on the Landlord for anything else, I would certainly stand my ground.


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## Klesser (27 Jul 2007)

Good morning and thank you all for your replies.  I read over the lease and the section on terminating the tenancy was kind of vague basicly saying that the landlord can give 2 to 4 weeks notice due to unforseen circumstances which could be just about anything.  I had a meeting with the landlady yesterday and she made it very clear she wanted me gone ASAP.  Dont think theres anything I can do now.
Its not the price of rent thats the problem, (strangely enough rents seem to cheaper then the last time I looked!)  its finding a suitable place.  For some reason a lot of landlords wont rent to some one with children. Also my poor daughter is only three and she was just settling into this place.  Ah well no point giving out now.


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## ClubMan (27 Jul 2007)

Did you call _Threshold_?


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## Klesser (27 Jul 2007)

I rang threshold and they told me pretty much what was said here and to read the lease and ring them back.  Might give them a call later but cant really see how they can help if I signed the lease. Should have read the bloody thing first.


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## ClubMan (27 Jul 2007)

Klesser said:


> Should have read the bloody thing first.


You mean you didn't!? 

Do you have a solicitor who you could ask for a legal opinion?


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## Klesser (27 Jul 2007)

Nope didnt read it.  I was in a happy little bubble and just signed it and shoved the copy in a drawer!  I dont have a solicitor as Ive never had to seek legal advice before but i get on fairly well with the companys solicitor so I could always give him a call.


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## niceoneted (27 Jul 2007)

Just as an aside to this. I'm sure if there house is so badly damaged and they have to move that the insurance company (their house insurance) would cover such cost so can they not just find somewhere else to rent themselves.


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## Klesser (27 Jul 2007)

niceoneted,  thats what I said but there seems to be some sort of problem with the insurance company and they wont pay out the landlady wouldnt give me anymore details.  But in the last place i lived i left the tap running and there was water damage and the insurance still covered it.


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## pc7 (27 Jul 2007)

klesser reckon if there are places to rent in the area and you can find somewhere nice just go for it, the stress and strain in fighting this may not be worth it as regardless you'll have to leave at the end of the lease when your daugher will be even more settled! best of luck


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## RainyDay (27 Jul 2007)

Klesser said:


> I read over the lease and the section on terminating the tenancy was kind of vague basicly saying that the landlord can give 2 to 4 weeks notice due to unforseen circumstances which could be just about anything.


To be honest, I don't think this is vague at all. A fire in the family would clearly fit the description of 'unforseen circumstances' in my book, so I don't think you'd have a legal leg to stand on here. 

There may be a lesson for others here to always read the small print (leases, guarantees, loans) - It may well come back to haunt you if not.


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## KalEl (27 Jul 2007)

If it was me I'd say I don't won't to get legal people involved but because of the hassle involved look for the rent to be waived for the final month as a gesture of goodwill.


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## Klesser (27 Jul 2007)

I have decided just to move now instead of dragging it any further.  I will definatly read the T&Cs next time. Ive learned my leason there.  Thank you all for your comments


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