# Self build - direct labour or contract?



## turtle77 (22 Aug 2006)

Hi,
my g/f and I are building a house in Co. Wexford.
I'm looking for advice on how to approach the build of the house.
At this stage we are only submitting plans to our architect. We have a pre-planning meeting on 7 Sept.

Should we use direct labour or go for a building contractor?
If we go direct, will we save money? 

I'm buying the site from my Dad.
We are currectly based in Dublin, and plannign to move home.
If we opt for direct labour, would I need to be closer to home (Wexford)?


----------



## turtle77 (22 Aug 2006)

btw, the house is c 2500sq foot, a dormer...assuming we PP


----------



## elefantfresh (22 Aug 2006)

if you go direct labout you can save 25%-35% of the overall cost. and even more if you can do as much of it as possible yourself. My cousin is a builder and i approached him to build my place and that is the info he gave me. As long as you're comfortable co-ordinating everything and problem solving and not in a huge hurry, then you can save a fortune. good luck!


----------



## Duffman (22 Aug 2006)

Would definitely recommend going direct labour. Am currently in the process of building a 2,200 sq ft bungalow. Started last March & am at the plastering stage so allow plenty of time - its not quick. I hope to be moved in by Xmas. I would estimate that I am at least 25% inside the budget that my architect advised based on using a builder. 
The main advice I would give you is to always use recommended builders - don't only go for the cheapest - if they're cheap and recommended all the better. This is especially important if you don't know too much about building yourself. When I started I knew absolutely nothing about building but you'd be surprised how much you'd pick up. Be prepared to do a bit of hauling yourself to save time & money. 
I would also say that you need to be near the area or at least have someone with time on their hands to be there for you. I had to order most of the materials myself so I tried to be there to ensure I got everything I ordered.
You'll find it daunting but ultimately rewarding. Good luck


----------



## turtle77 (23 Aug 2006)

Duffman; thanks for the message; it helps.
I asked a friend of mine for advice too.
His Dad is a builder (but doesn't build houses, just extensions etc). So I would most definitely trust him for impartial advice.
He said I should go for a contractor even if it means a saving of 20 grand on the build with direct labour:

<LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">Job may take up to 6 months longer. <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">You may need someone reliable to oversee. <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">You would probably find it hard to get individual sub-contractors back if you’re not happy with something. <LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">If accident happens on-site, there could be problems if you do not have your own public liability insurance.  Many sub-contractors don’t have the correct insurance.


----------



## dereko1969 (23 Aug 2006)

i'm nearing the end of a self-build (well hopefully, it's been dragging on for ages). we've gone direct labour and it's very time consuming and as neither of us are working near to the site at the moment it's a real pain keeping an eye on things. cost wise you may save money but you may not. if i were doing it again i would definitely go contract as it should make things simpler, though if you could find a good project manager that could work too. best of luck with it.


----------



## turtle77 (23 Aug 2006)

Thanks Dereko..sems like there's pro's and cons.
One of the biggest pro's is definitely the savings I could make...but this doesn't seem guaranteed...or at least not as guaranteed as I felt initially


----------



## Hurling Fan (29 Aug 2006)

We are just about to start our new build and gave the direct labour Vs contract a lot of thought.  While it is very enticing to save a shed load of money, we decided against it in the end for a number of reasons - the main one being that neither of us know much about house building and we're nervous that something major would be completed inadequately, the insultation for example, and one mistake would costly us dearly and be a read headache to put right.  While we would be good at getting three quotes, chasing people etc the lack of technical knowledge was a major issue for us.  I have some family members in various parts of the building trade and I know they would give us a hand out but feel by the end of it they would probably be pretending to be out when we called as we'd end up hounding them and didn't want to wreck family relationships.  As a compromise, we asked all builders who gave us a quote not to include plumbing and heating (as my brother will do that for us) and doors and windows (reckon that can't be too difficult) and all the other usual stuff e.g. kitchen, bathrooms, painting, tiling, landscapting and reckon we'll have more than enough to go along with.  Also think it would be very difficult to do from afar - would you consider moving home before you start - it might help your planning permission application too.  We have already met a couple of builders and one said that he hopes one or both of us would call out to the site every day as it is much easier to avoid problems that way and thats using a builder!

Good luck in what ever you decide.


----------



## turtle77 (30 Aug 2006)

Hi Hurling Fan,
the site, and my home place is in Wexford..and I currently live in Dublin. Working in IT means it is very difficult to get a job nearer home - so moving home wouldn't be a viable option.
A lot of planning is required in building a house obviously - and I too wouldn't have the technical knowledge...that's my major concern. I don't think my Dad is overly keen on managing the entire thing. He would be my cheapest option if we were to go direct. The site is just a 100 yards from the home place.
I know using direct is bound to take a lot longer. My sister lives at home, and she too is building a house - and plans to build before me using direct labour (she's getting amrried soon). Maybe I can learn from her mistakes!!!


----------



## wickla (7 Sep 2006)

You may need to move closer. A lot of tradesmen will say 'order me two tonnes of sand/blocks/2 by 4 etc I'm coming tomorrow' and you just don't have time to get the order in, you need to build a good relationship with your local builders providers (we were able to negotiate at 10% discount off our monthly statements at the start of the build, purely by arguing how much materials we would be buying). We started building May last year and are now at the kitchen -going in- stage. We went direct labour. Overall we are looking at perhaps only a 15-20% saving. Believe it or not this is a disapointment as at the onset, budgeting, we hoped to save at least 25-30%. But don't think of it purely in monetary terms (its hard not to I know). Even though it has been a nightmare, I don't mind telling you, co-ordinating things and having stuff on site etc. we have been able to see everything that has gone on and been onsite at every single stage. The advantage of this is that you decide on the quality of everything that goes into the house (and pay for it too mind), and you have peace of mind its all been done right and to your standards. Also you can make a lot of changes (and you will) that a builder would charge you a fortune for. I mean the reason we lost 10-15% of our 'saving' budget is we decided to use a bling bling type of insulation, stainless steel electrical fittings, extra external doors and so on these are things we decided on well into the build. Make sure your plans are accurate and consistant between tradesmen. On a side note you will have the negotiation skills to get 10-20% off a Mars-bar in your local shop by the time your finished, a life skill that can only be learned by a year and a half's painful giving away of money. One other thing I would say for your sanity if you do decide to go self build is put aside a budget for a weeks holiday in the middle to get away from it all with your missus and not talk about the house for that week. Hope this helps I'll send you my email if you would like anymore impartial advice cause I would have loved it at your stage, and good luck!


----------



## legalhawk (11 Sep 2006)

i'm currently building a house and have engaged a builder to do it, i actually work in the area of property and coveyancing and therefore would know alot of people going direct labour which is the sole reason i didn't go direct myself. i have found the builder experience excellent, he may not cost less but my builder has a great rep, fully homebonded and takes all the hassle out of building, there's enough to be thinking about when you are building rather than chasing people down also and given your lack of proximity to the building area i would seriously consider it. the phrase "penny wise & pound foolish" springs to mind. i have alot of clients who have had problems with houses and bad workmanship, with a builder and a building agreement you have a safety net and someone to go after if problems occur, also homebond to rely upon. if you do decide to go direct i would suggest employing a very thorough particular engineer and get him to check it all the way, unfortunately alot of mistakes can get covered up by plaster. Best of luck whatever you decide.


----------



## turtle77 (12 Sep 2006)

LegalHawk & Wickla,
good replies; thanks.
It seems to me that the decision is made by determining what type of person I am, and my circumstances.
At the minute I'm thinking of going contractor. If I was to save 50k I'd go direct labour; but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't.
It's a 2500sq ft dormer. 
I'm based in Dublin, house build is in Wexford - so I'm too far away.
I'm too concerned about the amount of things I will, out of sheer ignorance, miss out on.
It's too big of a project, and too important for us to simply gamble on.
Wickla; I love the way you get great pride out of it; and the way you honed your bargaining skills - but I guess this would be too risky for me as I won't be around.

Legalhawk - I don't suppose the builder you employed is in wexford?


----------



## secman (12 Sep 2006)

I went 1/2 way, I engaged a contractor to do all ground works and to do slab and blockwork to wall plate level. I then got a local chippy to do roof and slating of same. We then got the windows ourselves. Presently at exterior plastering stage and then house will be fully weathered. My 2 brothers are plumbers and I work for an electrical contractor , so covered in those areas, chippy was excellent so covered for interior carpentry. Plasterer is fine , so interior plastering should be ok. 

Incidentally I live in Dublin and the house is in Wexford, Looking back, the build went very very smoothly, could recommend the contractor, found him to be very reliable and  trustworthy.

Best of luck on which ever route you chose.


----------



## turtle77 (12 Sep 2006)

Secman! Share your info!!!

Who was the contractor..if you don't mind please?
This could be the way to go.


----------



## CubicYard1 (12 Sep 2006)

Hi All,

Can ye give me actual costs and size for the houses ye are building.
I am told that you could build a new house (2000 sq ft) for around 150k (Limerick) but I am also told that prices for materials has shot up in past few years.

Thanks


----------

