# Bord Gais enters the domestic electricity market



## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

This seems like a no brainer. The cynic in me is wondering what the catch is though!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0218/bordgais.html


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## bamboozle (18 Feb 2009)

Sunny said:


> This seems like a no brainer. The cynic in me is wondering what the catch is though!
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0218/bordgais.html


 

I can see half the country switching to Bord Gais and Airtricity, ESB will have no customers left to pay their staff's 'generous' pay cheques!

would this affect OAP's who receive heating credits from ESB?


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## Caveat (18 Feb 2009)

Sunny said:


> The cynic in me is wondering what the catch is though!


 
'Switchover fee' maybe?  

It mentions that you will be able to change back to ESB at no cost but doesn't seem to specifically say that it's free to change to Bord Gáis in the first place.


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## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

Caveat said:


> 'Switchover fee' maybe?
> 
> It mentions that you will be able to change back to ESB at no cost but doesn't seem to specifically say that it's free to change to Bord Gáis in the first place.


 
Good point. Will try and find out


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## askalot (18 Feb 2009)

I can't find anything on their website yet. I'd be interested to have a look at their terms and conditions and whether, as with Airtricity, you have to fulfill certain conditions to get the full 10%. 

It's great to see some competition at last but it is also slightly disappointing to see the two new entrants both arrive at the same 10% discount. It reminds me of the first years of telecoms competition, still better than a poke in the eye though!


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## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

askalot said:


> I can't find anything on their website yet. I'd be interested to have a look at their terms and conditions and whether, as with Airtricity, you have to fulfill certain conditions to get the full 10%.
> 
> It's great to see some competition at last but it is also slightly disappointing to see the two new entrants both arrive at the same 10% discount. It reminds me of the first years of telecoms competition, still better than a poke in the eye though!


 
What are the conditions for Airtricity?


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## lightswitch (18 Feb 2009)

10% of an already inflated price would not compel me to move from the ESB.  

Considering the increases mandated by the regulator over the recent past the discount would need to be in the region of 30% before I would consider it.

IF for Example Bord Gais workers decided to take industrial action at some point would one not run the risk of having both their electricity and Gas cut off?

Too big a risk for 10% imo.


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## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

lightswitch said:


> 10% of an already inflated price would not compel me to move from the ESB.
> 
> Considering the increases mandated by the regulator over the recent past the discount would need to be in the region of 30% before I would consider it.
> 
> ...


 
Its the promise to be lower by 10% than the ESB no matter what ESB do with prices for the next three years that is attractive. The regulator will force ESB to drop prices this year as well. 10% cheaper is still 10% cheaper.

As for fears of striking, I don't really see it as valid objection. ESB workers are more likely to go strike as things stand and then your gas heating etc won't work anyway if the power goes even if Bord Gais workers don't strike.


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## askalot (18 Feb 2009)

Sunny said:


> What are the conditions for Airtricity?



Pay by DD, monthly billing, e-billing and sign up to their level payment plan. 

I see that Bord Gais offer a 12% discount if you are an existing gas customer.


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## DonDub (18 Feb 2009)

askalot; can you tell me where you saw the 12% discount being offered? I have looked at the bord gais website and cant find it.
Also is this 12% a similar offer to airtricity,in that it will remain 12% cheaper than ESB?
Thanks


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## Conshine (18 Feb 2009)

Here:



It says: 
*Only customers with open Bord Gáis Energy Supply natural gas accounts may register.*


Is that the case? We dont have Bord Gais in my area...


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## demoivre (18 Feb 2009)

askalot said:


> It's great to see some competition at last but it is also slightly disappointing to see the two new entrants both arrive at the same 10% discount. It reminds me of the first years of telecoms competition, still better than a poke in the eye though!



Was thinking the very same thing - can only be good for the consumer overall though imo.


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## tyrekicker (18 Feb 2009)

Excuse my ignorance, but how will Bord Gais deliver electricity? 

i.e. Is this another form of Irish pseudo-competition whereby Bord Gais will be paying the ESB to use their infrastructure, in the same way as other telecom providers have to lease bandwidth from Eircom?


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## Dreamerb (18 Feb 2009)

Conshine said:


> *Only customers with open Bord Gáis Energy Supply natural gas accounts may register.*


That's only to see your gas bills online - nothing to do with the electricity switch. Don't worry about it!


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## askalot (18 Feb 2009)

DonDub said:


> askalot; can you tell me where you saw the 12% discount being offered? I have looked at the bord gais website and cant find it.
> Also is this 12% a similar offer to airtricity,in that it will remain 12% cheaper than ESB?
> Thanks



Today's Indo :

"Existing Bord Gais customers can look forward to slightly higher savings, with the gas company promising a rate per unit of electricity which will be around 12pc below the charge per unit levied for by the ESB."

http://www.independent.ie/national-...lls-before-supplying-electricity-1643149.html


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## kkelliher (18 Feb 2009)

small print on their website

*Guaranteed minimum savings of 10%* off ESB rates*

 						* The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer. Terms and conditions apply.


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## askalot (18 Feb 2009)

kkelliher said:


> small print on their website
> 
> *Guaranteed minimum savings of 10%* off ESB rates*
> 
> * The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer. Terms and conditions apply.




Thanks for that because today's Indo says:

''When it launches its new service today Bord Gais will be giving a guarantee to new customers that it will undercut the ESB domestic electricity rate by 10pc for a minimum of three years''.

So always read the small print is today's lesson.


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## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

Damn it. Once again my cynical side proves to be correct!


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## Conshine (18 Feb 2009)

Dreamerb said:


> That's only to see your gas bills online - nothing to do with the electricity switch. Don't worry about it!


 

So how do you register for this? The Gas account number is a mandatory field.


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## Elainee40 (18 Feb 2009)

does anyone know if there is a minimum term?? eg 12 months. i cant see it on the website


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## Savvy (18 Feb 2009)

Also get 2% off for been Bord Gais customer for gas
And another 2% off for setting up Direct Debit with them.

10%/5% or even 1% less , it's all good. Better in your pocket than theirs!


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## brazen_dude (18 Feb 2009)

10% discount is for the first year only, next two years its 5% below ESB... See the terms & conditions below from bordgais website,
*Guaranteed minimum savings of 10%* off ESB rates*

 						* The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer. Terms and conditions apply.


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## michaelm (18 Feb 2009)

Elainee40 said:


> does anyone know if there is a minimum term?? eg 12 months. i cant see it on the website


Apparently not. The T&C says 28 days notice required to terminate.  The guy from Bord Gais on the radio, while misrepresenting the 10% saving as being for 3 years rather than just 1 year, said there would be no penalty to switch back to ESB.  I wonder could the ESB charge some admin fee for switching over and back.


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## Smashbox (18 Feb 2009)

Well spotted Brazen, I missed that part...


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## Chocks away (18 Feb 2009)

Consensus! Airtricity or Bord Gais?


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## jasconius (18 Feb 2009)

So are we saying here that if ESB is due to cut prices as planned anyway in the next 4-6 weeks by say 15%, we can get a further 10% (in Year 1 anyway) on top of this?

If so, this could be the first green shoot of the year!


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## sandrat (18 Feb 2009)

I've switch, 10% off then another 2% for being bord gais customer and another 2% for direct debit. You don't need to be a bord gais customer to register you just need it for the extra 2%


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## Smashbox (18 Feb 2009)

Jas - thats what they're saying anyway.

I'm certainly thinking about changing.


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## Chocks away (18 Feb 2009)

Have just signed with Airtricity. Had been filling in the Bord Gais application, slight blimp and could not get through to customer service. Started doing Airtricity, again slight blimp, got through to customer care immediately and they took all details there and then. That's the way the cookie crumbles! But I can say I took this option because it was greener


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## callybags (18 Feb 2009)

The discount is only on the usage element of the bill. The standing charge will be the same as that currently ( pardon the pun) charged by ESB. In my case the standing charge accounts for about 33% of the total so the 10% discount is really 7%.
Still going to change, though


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## AlastairSC (18 Feb 2009)

We've just changed too. 10% in year one, followed by 5% in 2 and 3, as others have said. Stated to be 10% under ESB even if they counter by dropping their charges. We can leave at any time, and while ESB might levy some switch-back fee, it would probably be counter-productive for them to do so.

Only one downside for us - we lose the budgeting facility whereby our monthly payments are evened out automatically over the year. Now we'll pay the cost of the last two months be it high or low. Still worthwhile, though. 

Left the cancellation waiver box unticked on the online form so we can back out over next 7 days if ESB make any radical announcements...


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## Sunny (18 Feb 2009)

I switched as well. Good first day for Bord Gais!


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## Towger (18 Feb 2009)

I just switched my self. The only problem is the botched formatting of the terms and conditions, which came to 39 (mainly blank) pages when printed.

Also they don't seem allow Electronic Payments for paying bills!!

From 


> What payment methods may I choose?
> You may choose from Direct Debit, Laser or Credit card by calling 1850 22 22 55, by cash at Post offices, Paypoint and Payzone outlets or by sending us a cheque.


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## extopia (18 Feb 2009)

tyrekicker said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but how will Bord Gais deliver electricity?
> 
> i.e. Is this another form of Irish pseudo-competition whereby Bord Gais will be paying the ESB to use their infrastructure, in the same way as other telecom providers have to lease bandwidth from Eircom?



Yes, the electricity network has become the domain of ESB networks, who rent it out to the various utility companies, including ESB supply. Similar to eircom and RTE.


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## RedTop (18 Feb 2009)

I just cancelled my ESB Direct Debit and have contacted both Bord Gáis and Airtricity to see what they have to offer. My last bill was over 450 Euro for Nov/Dec (big family).  We used 7% less units than we did the same time last year, but the charge per unit increased by 20% in the same period.  The Flippers !


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## maura (18 Feb 2009)

Towger said:


> Also they don't seem allow Electronic Payments for paying bills!!
> 
> From



I don't know why electronic payments would not work, if you transfer the money to your bord gais account.  Just say no to direct debits and continue with your switching.

I didn't realise that there is an extra 2% off if you sign up for direct debits.  I asked if the account is in credit will the company apply for the direct debit and the answer is no.  Therefore if you pay over the amount due before the bills are issued, no direct debit will leave your bank account and you can benefit from the extra 2% off your bill.  I made a mistake of skipping this and now I cannot seem to sign up for dd, I hope I can still get this discount if I sign up later.


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## askalot (18 Feb 2009)

So is it correct to say that Bord Gais are the cheapest supplier in year one, if you are an existing gas customer but from year two on Airtricity win out because they maintain the 10% discount whereas Bord Gais drops to 5%?

I can't see anywhere on the Airtricity website that states whether the 10% discount is just an introductory offer or an ongoing price promise.


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## f1_jb (18 Feb 2009)

First thing I did when I turned on the PC was got to Board Gais and switch, I havebeen with ESB for 17 years now and never seen them offering me anything to stay with them.


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## z104 (18 Feb 2009)

Just switched. I think the ESB and Bord Gais will be surprised by the uptake.


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## Smashbox (18 Feb 2009)

Niallers said:


> Just switched. I think the ESB and Bord Gais will be surprised by the uptake.


 
I don't think they will be surprised at all.


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## Vinnie_cork (18 Feb 2009)

Niallers said:


> Just switched.



Just switched too, It took about 2 minutes to fill out switch form, didn't have any errors or issues, and printed off the confirmation at end. 

Like mentioned by another poster I did not click the waiver box, just in case I need to change my mind in 7 days.

Got the 14% reduction rate.

 I heard some woman on Liveline today say dont switch, so your loyalty to the ESB, and another say it looked too good to be true.  

But if I only save €10 a year its €10 in my wallet.


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## Chocks away (18 Feb 2009)

I assume that Airtricity will give the 10% reduction year on year. I don't remember any reduction after year one. Am I missing something? Anyway, the die is cast


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## Fnergg (18 Feb 2009)

By the way folks, if you are switching to Bord Gais make sure you pay your bills by the due date. Otherwise you will incur interest charges on the debt. See their Terms and Conditions and in particular:

(f) If you do not pay us any sum due under the Contract you will be liable to pay us interest from the due date for payment at a daily rate equal to 2% above the Bank of Ireland AAA Overdraft Rate then in force or, if there is no such rate, then an equivalent rate, accruing on a daily basis until payment is made. 

The ESB levies no such charge.


Always read the small print!


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## panindub (18 Feb 2009)

Switched to Airtricity last week online, had to sign up for direct debt + level payment to get the full 10%. Greener option was the winner for me!

It'll be interesting to know the uptake with Airtricity and Bord Gas...ESB will be losing alot of customers.
Airtricity seems to have launched quitely, while Bord Gas has launched with all the fan-fair!!


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## FilthyRich (19 Feb 2009)

Now, if only someone could enter the market to compete with my ridiculously high Bord Gáis heating bill...


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## askalot (19 Feb 2009)

It seems the best option is to switch to Bord Gais for year 1 and get a 14% discount, if you're an existing gas customer, then in year two move to Airtricity for 10% as against 5% at Bord Gais. 

My worry is whether the regulator has sorted a procedure for moving from Bord Gais to Airtricity or will you first of all have to move back to ESB then to Airtricity. 

As the telecom and banking sectors have proven, we don't have the brightest, most effective regulators in this country.


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

askalot said:


> ....My worry is whether the regulator has sorted a procedure for moving from Bord Gais to Airtricity or will you first of all have to move back to ESB then to Airtricity...



Have no worries. It will be perfectly permissable to move from Bord Gais to Airtricity without having to go back to ESB. Hell, you can even run up a debt with Bord Gais and move just when they are about to disconnect you and the debt can't folllow you to your new supplier. Them's the market rules!

Regards,

Fnergg


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## askalot (19 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> Have no worries. It will be perfectly permissable to move from Bord Gais to Airtricity without having to go back to ESB. Hell, you can even run up a debt with Bord Gais and move just when they are about to disconnect you and the debt can't folllow you to your new supplier. Them's the market rules!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fnergg



Thanks for the reply. 

By the way; what exactly do you do in the ESB? I need a new socket put in


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## Vinnie_cork (19 Feb 2009)

FilthyRich said:


> Now, if only someone could enter the market to compete with my ridiculously high Bord Gáis heating bill...


 

Wonder will the ESB compete and supply gas? That would be funny.


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## mik_da_man (19 Feb 2009)

They could if they wanted to.
And prob could under cut Bord Gais by a certain % too...


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## Chocks away (19 Feb 2009)

Vinnie_cork said:


> Wonder will the ESB compete and supply gas? That would be funny.


How in the name of God could you cook the turkey with the little bit of gas fizzling through the wires


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

askalot said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> By the way; what exactly do you do in the ESB? I need a new socket put in


 

You are assuming a lot in assuming that I work for the ESB. I am merely a disinterested observer of the Irish electricity market with informal connections in the ESB and other market participants. I wouldn't be able to put in a socket to save my life. I am just about able to put in a lightbulb.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## dinjoecurry (19 Feb 2009)

i switched today. As a gas customer will get 12% discount if there are problems i can always change back.Any discount on ESB is welcome, as a monopoly they have been ripping us off for years


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

dinjoecurry said:


> ...Any discount on ESB is welcome, as a monopoly they have been ripping us off for years


 
The interesting thing is that when ESB was a total monopoly (prior to 2001) Irish electricity prices were the cheapest in Europe. Then regulation came along and competition occurred in the industrial/commercial sector. The market was fully open to all comers in 2005 but nobody was interested in the domestic sector as the profit margin was too low. So, over the years the Regulator has been factoring in percentage increases in every price change in order to attract competitors to the domestic market. Finally, it has happened and Bord Gais and Airtricity have started taking domestic customers. ESB is not allowed by the Regulator to lower its prices in order to compete. There isn't a level playing field. ESB customers are being charged more than they really need to pay so that the Regulator can say that he has delivered competition. So, don't blame ESB for "ripping us off" - blame the Regulator. And when the Regulator and the politicians start crowing about the dawn of domestic electricity competition please recognise it for what it is: another Great Big Lie perpetrated on the Irish public.   

If that is real competition, I'm a banana. 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## sandrat (19 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> By the way folks, if you are switching to Bord Gais make sure you pay your bills by the due date. Otherwise you will incur interest charges on the debt. See their Terms and Conditions and in particular:
> 
> (f) If you do not pay us any sum due under the Contract you will be liable to pay us interest from the due date for payment at a daily rate equal to 2% above the Bank of Ireland AAA Overdraft Rate then in force or, if there is no such rate, then an equivalent rate, accruing on a daily basis until payment is made.
> 
> ...


 
well if you are paying by direct debit there is no trouble there!


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## dinjoecurry (19 Feb 2009)

FNERGG you would not by any chance be connected with the ESB in any WAY? Why not take the discount? The ESB has always imo been overmanned/overpaid/and full of crazy work practices and we pay for it all wake up!


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## Chocks away (19 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> The interesting thing is that when ESB was a total monopoly (prior to 2001) Irish electricity prices were the cheapest in Europe.
> 
> If that is real competition, I'm a banana.
> 
> ...


Hi Banana. So who do you blame? Essentially, if new players are introduced that produces competition. If something is not "real competition" then it is "unreal competition". Can you explain the latter please. 
PS. Sorry about the intro. I know you are not a real banana.


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## callybags (19 Feb 2009)

Could anyone explain the following: 

1. There is only one producer of electricity in the country- ESB Networks (I am leaving out the minimal amount sold into the national grid), who then sell it on to ESB or Bord Gais.

2. ESB charge us €1 for one unit of this electricity. (trying to keep this as simple as possible)

3. Bord Gais say they will charge us 90 cent for the same unit.

4. I assume Bord Gais will make a profit so they must be buying it from ESB Networks at say 80 cent.

5. ESB up till now have bought 100% of the electricity from Networks so I would presume they get it even cheaper. Say  70cent.

6. ESB are therefore making a profit of 30% on their selling price which is set by the regulator.

a) Is this not scandalous that the regulator would facilitate these profits for the ESB?
b) Will the regulator not be tasked with setting the price that Bord Gais charges for the electricity and, if so, how can BG give a guarantee of always being lower than the ESB?

Hope this is not too rambling but it's things like this that keep me awake at night


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## askalot (19 Feb 2009)

callybags said:


> 6. ESB are therefore making a profit of 30% on their selling price which is set by the regulator.
> 
> a) Is this not scandalous that the regulator would facilitate these profits for the ESB?



It is but that is just another hangover of the voodoo economics that the PD/FF party visted upon us in the past ten years. This was their way of encouraging competition, so in reality the savings made that those of us who move supplier will only help offset the artificially increased prices that were part of government policy. It should only take 15 years of lower prices to make back the difference!



callybags said:


> b) Will the regulator not be tasked with setting the price that Bord Gais charges for the electricity and, if so, how can BG give a guarantee of always being lower than the ESB?



The regulator has nothing to do with the price charged by Bord Gais or Airtricity.


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## Toby (19 Feb 2009)

Have to laugh at the following from the Big Switch site terms and conditions 

"In accessing the Site, the User accepts that information messages and electronic mail passing over the Internet may not be free from interference by third parties. Consequently, Bord Gáis cannot guarantee the privacy or confidentiality of any information relating to the User passing over the Internet"

Doesn't really make me feel too good about giving them my bank details - I would have thought they have to provide adequate security on their site?


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

callybags said:


> .....There is only one producer of electricity in the country- ESB Networks (I am leaving out the minimal amount sold into the national grid), who then sell it on to ESB or Bord Gais.....



Incorrect. ESB Networks do not generate electricity.They distribute it around the country via overhead lines in rural areas and underground cables in urban centres. They also maintain the networks and provide meter reading services to all suppliers. So, for instance, if you switch to Bord Gais or Airtricity, ESB Networks will still be reading your meter and will still call out to you to fix the fault if your lights go out. Problems with lots of estimated bills? Whatever the reason may be, switching supplier will not fix it. My advice to anyone with frequent estimates is to read your meter on a regular basis and advise your supplier be it ESB, Bord Gais or Airtricity. They will all be happy to amend your bill. 

ESB Power Generation used to have a monopoly of power generation but those days are long gone. They now have less than 50% of the total market share of electricity generation. The rest is made up of independent power producers of which there are many, big and small. Have a look at the Eirgrid website if you want details of who they are (www.eirgrid.com). One of them is obviously Airtricity with their significant number of windfarms. Airtricity is both a generator and a supplier. Bord Gais will also have this dual role when they complete the building of their electricity generating plant in Whitegate, County Cork.  

All electricity generated goes into one virtual "pool" from which the various suppliers on the island, north and south, but their electricity to sell on to their customers. (This is the Single Electricity Market and it is a world first in that it spans two separate political jurisdictions). 

By all means go to Airtricity if you like their green offering. It will help I'm sure in developing their wind generation portfolio. But don't think that because you are an Airtricity customer the electricity that comes down the wires to your house is generated purely from wind. Like for every other customer it's generated from a mix of sources. You are getting the very same mix of generated electricity as your non-green neighbour.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## PetrolHead (19 Feb 2009)

callybags said:


> Could anyone explain the following:
> 
> 1. There is only one producer of electricity in the country- ESB Networks (I am leaving out the minimal amount sold into the national grid), who then sell it on to ESB or Bord Gais.
> 
> ...




1) Your initial assertion is wrong. EDF and several other European energy concerns own power stations in Ireland... Bord Gais is actually building it's own in East Cork due online next February.

2-6) I'm afraid this is rambling slightly...

However...

a) It is absolutely scandalous that the Regulators can set a price that artificially inflates the cost to consumers. I can sort of understand why they did it... that is, to promote competition... but surely a laissez fair approach would be far more appropriate in a 'liberal democracy'.

b) Bord Gais will be able to set whatever price they like (and to answer a couple of other points above - they guarantee a 10% lower cost than ESB in year one but will not be raising their prices to allow for a 5% discount in years 2 and 3... they will simply guarantee this level of discount with regard to whatever ESB do to their prices.)



On a side note... I'm currently listening to 'The Last Word'... great to hear the Regulator has allowed individuals to 'sell back' surplus energy to the grid when generating at home. It might take time to have an impact but it's still good news.

Next we need to see Government grants for wind turbines and PV panels for the home to go along with the grants for solar hot water systems currently available!


.


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## dscanlon (19 Feb 2009)

Thinking of switching to BG, but can't see anything on their site regarding 'nightsaver'. Does anybody know if BG will be offering their discount on both the day and night units, or is the 10% offer only applicable to the standard domestic tariff?

Thanks in advance 

Dave


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## askalot (19 Feb 2009)

Toby said:


> Have to laugh at the following from the Big Switch site terms and conditions
> 
> "In accessing the Site, the User accepts that information messages and electronic mail passing over the Internet may not be free from interference by third parties. Consequently, Bord Gáis cannot guarantee the privacy or confidentiality of any information relating to the User passing over the Internet"
> 
> Doesn't really make me feel too good about giving them my bank details - I would have thought they have to provide adequate security on their site?



No need to worry, the site is secure. It has a secure https: web address and a little padlock symbol at the bottom right of your browser.


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## Fnergg (19 Feb 2009)

dscanlon said:


> Thinking of switching to BG, but can't see anything on their site regarding 'nightsaver'. Does anybody know if BG will be offering their discount on both the day and night units, or is the 10% offer only applicable to the standard domestic tariff? Dave



Yes they will.  

ESB Nightsaver prices (VAT incl) :                *Day: 19.89c* *Night: 9.84c*

BGE Standard Nightsaver:                                    *Day: 17.90c    Night: 8.86c*

BGE with Direct Debit or Natural Gas:       *Day: 17.5c    Night: 8.66c*

BGE with Direct Debit and NAtural Gas:   *Day: 17.10c    Night: 8.46c*

Regards,

Fnergg


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## dscanlon (20 Feb 2009)

Thanks Fnergg


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## Vinnie_cork (20 Feb 2009)

[broken link removed]

they also have a sample bill on this site


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## johnnygman (20 Feb 2009)

has anyone else had problems trying to switch online?


This is the address on the website for switching but it keeps asking for a network  username and password.
This has never come up for me on any other sites i have visited..


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## brazen_dude (20 Feb 2009)

Just for awareness, Standing charges are not discounted with bord gais... so we may not see a straight 14% discount compared to ESB bill... discount is only on unit charge.


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## tablesalt (20 Feb 2009)

1. It does state that Bord Gais charge 
Disconnection fee €97.61 inc VAT 
While on the website it is under the title of Overdue accounts & arrears
one can presume that this would also apply if you decide to switch back to ESB or Airtricity.
Does anyone know at what time night charges start?
Does anyone know why there were different types of meters showing? One with 24hours and one with day an night reading? Our meter only has one line. Does that mean that the units are charged at the same rate?
We only bought our house 1.5 y ago. Our bills are humongous! Last couple of months  was extremely careful and switching everything off. Not even a porch light on at night. Yet the bills are still huge (I am talking 700e) Could there be a problem with the meter? Had anyone heard of similar situation? I called ESB but they wouldnt come out. They say some of our appliances must be faulty.


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## Fnergg (20 Feb 2009)

tablesalt said:


> 1. It does state that Bord Gais charge
> Disconnection fee €97.61 inc VAT
> While on the website it is under the title of Overdue accounts & arrears
> one can presume that this would also apply if you decide to switch back to ESB or Airtricity.
> ...



The €97.61 fee will only apply if you want a physical disconnection of supply to your house. All suppliers charge this because they are charged this cost by ESB Networks and they then have to pass it on to the customer. If you want to switch back to ESB or to Airtricity there is no charge.

You have a standard 24 hour meter. All units are charged at the same price. Some customers have Nightsaver meters whereby the electricity consumed after 11pm and before 8am (Midnight to 9am in summer) are charged at half price. The downside is that the Standing Charge increases significantly. It suits very few people. Unless you can use at least 4 units between those hours every night throughout the year you will not get any benefit and you could be losing money. Ideal for guest-houses and the like but not for your typical family home.

Your meter isn't faulty. I have written elsewhere on this forum about the reliability of electricity meters so you can forget about the meter being the cause of your high usage.

Try this: switch every electrical appliance off - lights, radio, etc. Check the meter. The revolving dial should come to a stop after a minute or so. If it doesn't do another check to see if you've forgotton anything. If you haven't and the dial is still revolving merrily around I'd get an electrician to check your installation: there may be a wiring fault somewhere.

If the dial does stop as it should then it's purely a usage issue. Take a meter reading every day around the same time. This will give you your usage on a day to day basis. Take note of what is being used and pay particular attention to items like plug-in heaters (get rid of them), the hot water tank (do not leave it switched on continuoulsy), the frequency of shower usage (God help you if there are teenagers in the house as they seem to require showers very frequently and spend an eternity in them), the tumbler dryer (use very sparingly), and the washing machine (only use for full loads). I wouldn't worry too much about lights and such. If you have a large screen plasma/LCD TV then that is going to cost you much more than the old type TVs to run.                         

Other than that, check if any of your bills have been estimated. If they have the next bill based on an actual reading will invariably be for an accumulated usage and will be that much higher as a result.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## tablesalt (20 Feb 2009)

The last bill was not estimated. I checked that
Thank you very much for your reply!


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## esbnoway (21 Feb 2009)

Thinking of changing from esb to bg. 

On BG web its states that unit charge is 16.75 with BG and 18.61 with ESB. See link below

My last ESB unit charge was 16.40 and that what is says on esb web. That cheaper than BG

which is right or am I missing something?

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]


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## Fnergg (21 Feb 2009)

esbnoway said:


> Thinking of changing from esb to bg.
> 
> On BG web its states that unit charge is 16.75 with BG and 18.61 with ESB. See link below
> 
> ...




The ESB price is VAT exclusive whereas BGE's includes the VAT.

BGE is cheaper.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## esbnoway (21 Feb 2009)

Thanks Fnergg. Will now switch


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## Lightning (21 Feb 2009)

7,500 have switched in the first few days. A very impressive start for a new entrant. 

[broken link removed]

I am waiting for my next ESB bill in the coming days and then I will join those switching.


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## Fnergg (21 Feb 2009)

fungus said:


> ...7,500 have switched in the first few days. A very impressive start for a new entrant...



Yes, BGE have run a very slick campaign. It started with a couple of set-up callers complaining about their ESB bills on Liveline and of course the snowball effect kicked in then and the show ran with the ESB bill issue for two days running. Never mind that there was no attempt at balance - an appalling dereliction of journalistic ethics by Joe Duffy  - it achieved the desired effect: get the public riled up about the cost of electricity.

Their country-wide poster campaign started at the same time ("Ireland is ready to switch") and the photographs were very attractive indeed.

It was important too that they launched the campaign as the high winter bills are issuing. There mightn't have been half the hype had they launched in, say, August.

The use of Lucy Kennedy for the TV ads and on their website was another excellent choice: she is sassy and sexy and certainly made me pay attention. Their website is also very well designed and easily navigable. 

All in all, a textbook launch. Well done BGE! Good to see another semi-state knocking the socks off the other independent domestic supplier, the British owned Airtricity.

Not that the ESB is worried about all this. It is committed to working with the Regulator to reduce its dominant share of the domestic electricity market. It fully expects to lose hundreds of thousands of customers to Bord Gais and others over the next few years. That is why ESB prices will remain higher than its competitors for the foreseeable future as, otherwise, why would customers bother to switch?

When it is no longer the dominant supplier (probably when it has 50% or less of the customer market) it will have its regulatory restrictions lifted and will then be able to compete on an equal basis and will be able to offer attractive prices. The sooner this happens the better for ESB - and for customers - so it is not in the least bit worried about the current rush to switch. It would be very concerned if it did not happen. It might seem strange that a company is so philosophical about losing customers but that is the price ESB has to pay in the interests of the greater good. It happened in the electricity generating market where ESB reduced its dominance from 100% to just 38% at the present time. 

All this of course is masterminded by the Regulator so ESB customers are paying more than they really need to in order to encourage customers to go and in this way real competition will eventually be delivered. At the moment ESB has its hands tied behind its back so that the regulatory targets can be achieved. In that sense, what we are seeing at present is not, of course, real competition but it is still good for customers.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## extopia (22 Feb 2009)

Well to be fair to ESB, they're no eircom when it comes to being arrogant towards customers. At least not the guys on the ground. The management who recently awarded themselves handsome raises on the basis of their being "a profitable company" (who wouldn't be, when the customer has no choice) are in a different league altogether.


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## Lightning (22 Feb 2009)

12,000 have now switched according to the Sunday Business Post.


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## RMCF (22 Feb 2009)

I'll be switching myself over the next day or two.

My bills used to be around €90, but last 2 have jumped up to €120/130 figures. 10%/12% is not a lot, but it is better in my pocket than ESBs.

I think if there was any hassle in switching then many wouldn't bother, but the fact that all it takes is a quick electronic form completion with your ESB account number then many will cross over. 

I would like to go to AirTricity but BG appears a better deal as they guarantee to save you at least 5% on years 2 & 3 on ESB prices, so even if ESB lower theirs to compete then BG have to lower theirs as well. AirTricity only mention saving 10% on 1st year.


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## Daddy (22 Feb 2009)

Last bill dated 31/12 from ESB was per unit charge of .1597 + Vat 13.5% = .1813.

ESBNOWAY quoted earlier a higher per unit charge of .1861.

Why are the rates different ?


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## Fnergg (22 Feb 2009)

Daddy said:


> Last bill dated 31/12 from ESB was per unit charge of .1597 + Vat 13.5% = .1813.
> 
> ESBNOWAY quoted earlier a higher per unit charge of .1861.
> 
> Why are the rates different ?



Because the rates per unit increased as from 1st January.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Willowchase (22 Feb 2009)

Chocks away said:


> could not get through to customer service. Started doing Airtricity, again slight blimp, got through to customer care immediately





Fnergg said:


> By the way folks, if you are switching to Bord Gais make sure you pay your bills by the due date. Otherwise you will incur interest charges on the debt. See their Terms and Conditions and in particular:
> 
> (f) If you do not pay us any sum due under the Contract you will be liable to pay us interest from the due date for payment at a daily rate equal to 2% above the Bank of Ireland AAA Overdraft Rate then in force or, if there is no such rate, then an equivalent rate, accruing on a daily basis until payment is made.
> 
> ...



Call me stupid, but I'm waiting until the dust settles and some feedback starts to come through.  There could be fun with the billing with each side blaming the other if there are errors. Theoretically it's supposed to be simple to change your internet supplier but it hasn't always turned out that way!!



Chocks away said:


> How in the name of God could you cook the turkey with the little bit of gas fizzling through the wires



Think of the shock you could get when you turn on your gas cooker


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## scallywag (23 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> ... the British owned Airtricity.


 
Fnergg, it sounds like you have an agenda here - why mention "the British owned Airtricity"? What does it matter who their owners are, if they offer better value and predominantly green energy?



Fnergg said:


> It might seem strange that a company is so philosophical about losing customers but that is the price ESB has to pay in the interests of the greater good.



Do you seriously think that the ESB is interested in the greater good? You must be reading too much marketing material.

The ESB has totally antiquated work practices, and is basically run by the unions. They know they are untouchable because a strike would cripple the country. That's why they have been awarded a 3% pay increase when the national finances are in the greatest crisis since the foundation of the state. 

It's great news that finally there's a bit of competition, whether it works effectively or not remains to be seen.


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## Fnergg (23 Feb 2009)

scallywag said:


> Fnergg, it sounds like you have an agenda here - why mention "the British owned Airtricity"? What does it matter who their owners are, if they offer better value and predominantly green energy?
> 
> Do you seriously think that the ESB is interested in the greater good? You must be reading too much marketing material.
> 
> ...



Yes, competition is good even if it's not competition in the real sense of the word. Yes it's good to see choice in the marketplace and prices coming down. 

I have no problem with foreign ownership of utilities. Eircom is/was owned by a bunch of Australian bankers/financiers last time I looked and I am a happy customer of theirs. Just thought people ought to know, is all. All things being equal I prefer my puny contribution to the coffers of such companies to stay in Ireland rather than going abroad though. Call me a  sentimentalist.

The ESB has an unparalleled record of contribution to the common good. Read it's history. It has done more to better the lives of the Irish people than any other organisation you care to mention.

Do you seriously think the ESB unions would strike for 3.5%? How would any such strike cripple the country? The days when the power generation workers held such power (and they were always the only workers in the ESB who wielded such clout) are long since over. 72% of the power generation market in this country is now produced by private, independent power companies. The last strike by ESB workers was in 1991 and the last widespread power cuts as a result of strike action was back in the 1970s to the best of my knowledge.

Don't forget either that the ESB was not the only organisation to award it's workers the pay increase. Numerous other successful companies have also done so.   

The ESB is a very successful company, profitable, and well managed by any yardstick. If that is what "run by the unions" results in then maybe that is the solution for the woes that so much private industry is suffering at the present time. Of course, it is not run by the unions but there is a  good partnership arrangement between management and unions in the whole industrial relations arena. 

I often think that many commentators would be happier if the ESB were losing money hand over fist, running to the government for bail-outs, suffering strikes every month and so forth because that is what semi-state organisations are supposed to do right? I mean, anything owned by the Government has to be inefficient, right? Unfortunately for such pundits the ESB has never obliged in that respect. 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Calico (24 Feb 2009)

Deleted post


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## RSMike (24 Feb 2009)

FilthyRich said:


> Now, if only someone could enter the market to compete with my ridiculously high Bord Gáis heating bill...



You can choose another supplier (Flogas) already and switch your gas from Bord Gais in a similar way that you can switch your electricity from ESB, http://www.flogasnaturalgas.ie/

The problem is their rates are only marginally (about 1%) lower than Bord Gais, though you can get a 60% discount on the standing charge in year 1.

Energy competition however is happily a double edged sword for Bord Gais, Airtricity apparently plan to enter the residential gas market this summer, then I am hoping for some real competition on Gas prices......................


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## Fnergg (24 Feb 2009)

Calico said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> From ESB t&c's:
> 
> 'You must pay every bill we send you, including an estimated bill by the date shown on that bill. We may charge you interest if you do not pay the bill by the due date'



I can state absolutely definitively that ESB do not charge any interest on outstanding debt.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## scallywag (24 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> The ESB has an unparalleled record of contribution to the common good. Read it's history. It has done more to better the lives of the Irish people than any other organisation you care to mention.



The ESB was setup to provide electricity to the state and it did so. I don't regard this as "contributing to the common good", it's just doing the job it's supposed to do. And ESB workers have always been paid very well for doing so.



Fnergg said:


> The ESB is a very successful company, profitable, and well managed by any yardstick. If that is what "run by the unions" results in then maybe that is the solution for the woes that so much private industry is suffering at the present time. Of course, it is not run by the unions but there is a  good partnership arrangement between management and unions in the whole industrial relations arena.



I have seen their work practices myself at first hand, in generation, transmission and distribution areas. I worked for ESBI on a short term contract (thus not a full ESB employee) in the '90s. Things may have changed since then, but some of what I saw were extremely inefficient work practices compared to the private sector.

I also know that when one particular power generation station was shut down, the workers continued to turn up, and do nothing, on full pay for over a year. To me that's a company being run by the unions.

Yes the ESB have served the country well by providing a stable electricity supply, nothing more than they're tasked to do. But well managed and efficient, I don't think so.

I'm happy to let Airtricity take some of my cash now. They may not be perfect either but at least they're private and they have to survive on their own.


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## Sherman (24 Feb 2009)

Fnergg said:


> The ESB has an unparalleled record of contribution to the common good. Read it's history. It has done more to better the lives of the Irish people than any other organisation you care to mention.


 
Fnergg, seriously, give it a rest.  You have been asked repeatedly whether you have any connection to ESB and I haven't seen you respond (apologies in advance if I missed it).

The ESB was responsible for electrification in Ireland. Electrification is what has brought so much good, not specifically the ESB.


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## dinjoecurry (24 Feb 2009)

yes fnergg I agree we all know you have a serious vested interest so let people who have no axe to grind discuss the matter What you are saying about the ESB and how well its run is total bull


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## Calico (26 Feb 2009)

Deleted post


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## dennigerz (27 Feb 2009)

ESB went to the regulator before christmas looking for a 15% decrease on it's bill , the regulator would not allow it, and somehow bord Gais doesn't have to go through the regulator. and another thing, when the stormy nights come once again, who is it that will be out fixing the lines, can't see any gas men wanting to go up poles. But the ESB will once again have to show themselves and keep everyone happy, then that will show where bord gais priorities are


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## phester (27 Feb 2009)

Don't be silly, If you are with Bord Gais for your Electricity the same agreement exists from ESB networks to restore your electricity within the normal time frame.

I just wonder if the payback clause in there regular leaflet would still be valid if there was a long outage


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## askalot (27 Feb 2009)

dennigerz said:


> ESB went to the regulator before christmas looking for a 15% decrease on it's bill , the regulator would not allow it, and somehow bord Gais doesn't have to go through the regulator. and another thing, when the stormy nights come once again, who is it that will be out fixing the lines, can't see any gas men wanting to go up poles. But the ESB will once again have to show themselves and keep everyone happy, then that will show where bord gais priorities are



I presume you don't work for the ESB or else you would know that it has long since been split and that ESB power generation and supply has as much in common with ESB Networks (going up poles and reading your meter) as Airtricity or Bord Gais.


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## Daddy (3 Mar 2009)

Just announced.

ESB to lower prices by 10%.

does this mean now that when this is introduced I will now be paying 22% less for my units than in January.

switched to Bord Gais - so 10% + 2% DD + now a further 10% as Bord Gais are to be 10% lower in year 1 than ESB.


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## michaelm (3 Mar 2009)

Daddy said:


> does this mean now that when this is introduced I will now be paying 22% less for my units than in January.


Yes.  IF Bord Gais are to be believed.

*Guaranteed minimum savings of 10%* off ESB rates*

 						* The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer.


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## Daddy (3 Mar 2009)

and surely they are to be believed...


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## maura (4 Mar 2009)

I thought this might be the case was hoping anyway.  Has anyone received anything in the post since they signed up for Bord Gais electricity online, on 1st day?  I haven't heard anything.  I wonder if I am connected to Bord Gais yet as I unclicked the waiver?  Does anyone know?


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## SLS (4 Mar 2009)

maura said:


> I thought this might be the case was hoping anyway. Has anyone received anything in the post since they signed up for Bord Gais electricity online, on 1st day? I haven't heard anything. I wonder if I am connected to Bord Gais yet as I unclicked the waiver? Does anyone know?


 
The process of electricity switching involves a series of messages that must be exchanged between market participant. i.e. your new supplier and ESB networks
It couild take anything from 18 working days up until generally 2 months before you officially switch.

It mainly depends on

- whether you supplier a meter read or not, generally this decreases the swap time, but only if a valid meter read is provided to networks within their 5 day limit. if you dont it could be up to 2 months before you are officially a customer

and also 

- whether ESB Networks are equipped to deal with the volume of all the switches. There are general SLAs they must adhere to but this is probably the first time such customer movement has occured at the one time so ill be glad if they respond well to it, but time will tell

If you don't hear anything Ill give them a few weeks before giving them a call


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## corkgal (4 Mar 2009)

to reply to tyrekicker, they do use the ESB grid and you ring the ESB service for any problems. Bord gais just seem to be involved in the bill part!

The savings are:
10% for everyone
2% more for paying DD
2% more for Gas customers

They say that the 10% is guatanteed for 1 year, so if ESB falls so will BG electricity.

I switched yesterday.

Set up a joint account if there are two of you, our gas is in my partners name and I can't get any servicce for that.


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## michaelm (5 Mar 2009)

maura said:


> Has anyone received anything in the post since they signed up for Bord Gais electricity online, on 1st day?  I haven't heard anything.  I wonder if I am connected to Bord Gais yet as I unclicked the waiver?  Does anyone know?


I got this just now . .

	 	 		 			[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thank you for choosing Bord Gáis Energy to supply your electricity. We aim to provide you with excellent customer service and value for money for all your energy needs. [/FONT]
 			[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We are currently processing your application to switch from your existing electricity supplier to Bord Gáis Energy. The switching process is easy and there is no change to the meter or wires. The meter will continue to be read in the same way as before and you will receive your electricity bill every two months from Bord Gáis Energy once your account has been fully switched over. [/FONT]
 			[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We would ask you to note that due to the very high volumes of customers wishing to switch their supplier to us, processing your application may take a little longer than usual. However, we aim to have you registered as our customer as soon as possible. This process can take 18 to 60 working days depending on the ESB meter read cycle, which we do not have control over. At this stage you do not need to take any action. Once you are registered with us your supply is switched over to Bord Gáis Energy and you will receive a final bill from the ESB up to your final meter read. You will also receive a letter of notification from us and a welcome pack. We will be in contact with you should there be any problems in the switching process.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Once again we thank you for choosing Bord Gáis Energy as your electricity supplier and remember we guarantee to be 10% to 14% cheaper than ESB rates for your first year and a minimum of 5% cheaper in the second and third year, even when the ESB reduce their rates! [/FONT]
 			[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Please note this email is for information purposes and there is no reply facility.[/FONT]


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## Kine (5 Mar 2009)

Signed up yesterday. Let the savings roll (considering ESB are dropping next month too!!!)


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## maura (5 Mar 2009)

Hi , I got the same notification today by email, but thanks for posting your response first. Much appreciated.


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## Lipstick69 (6 Mar 2009)

AFAIK, the savings are just off the units, used not the standing charge or public levy. 

Still switched though!


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## lufc-Tom (6 Mar 2009)

Can any of the existing Airtricity/BGE subscribers comment on the level of service you might expect from their a/cs dept. I'm looking at switching, but I'm a bit dubious about giving either Airtricity or BGE my bank details while they're unproven wrt customer service. 

I note that Airtricity require a €300 deposit if you don't sign up for DD; no credit card facilities are available, so it's DD or cheque. Good luck with that folks.

I wouldn't want a CGO (Consumer Gouging Organization) such as eircom or Chorus to have the facility to dip into my bank account. I'd like some reassurance that Airtricity/BGE havn't been CGOs in the past ...


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## Diziet (7 Mar 2009)

lufc-Tom said:


> no credit card facilities are available, so it's DD or cheque. Good luck with that folks.



Why on earth would you use a credit card to pay for energy bills?

Direct debits come with a guarantee, which means that the bank refunds your money in the case of error. So you are in charge, not the organisation. It may be worth checking up on this with the bank to put your mind at rest.

In an ideal world, how would you propose paying?


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## theresa1 (7 Mar 2009)

How are you in charge? They debit the charge that appears on your bill correct or not? If they get it wrong you have to chase after them. I would prefer bill in post then you pay by credit card,cheque,in post office -you are then in charge.


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## Fnergg (7 Mar 2009)

theresa1 said:


> How are you in charge? They debit the charge that appears on your bill correct or not? If they get it wrong you have to chase after them. I would prefer bill in post then you pay by credit card,cheque,in post office -you are then in charge.



Because you get the bill before the direct debit goes through. Bord Gais/Airtricity/ESB give you 14 days to pay the bill. You therefore have plenty of time to contact them and ask them to stop the debit if the bill is over-estimated or if you a query on it. You also have a guarantee with the bank whereby if a debit does go through without your consent the bank will refund you the money immediately. So, in the unlikely event of you getting grief from the utility if a debit went through without your consent your bank will have to cough up. Seems like sufficient customer control to me. 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## esbnoway (7 Mar 2009)

Also got mail from BG about 18 to 60 working day to switch. When I was registering with BG I filled in a reading from ESB meter. Do saving start from the reading I gave or do ESB have to physical read my meter?

regards


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## Towger (7 Mar 2009)

I got my 'Final Bill' from the ESB yesterday, still no word fromBord Gais yet.


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## Fnergg (7 Mar 2009)

esbnoway said:


> Also got mail from BG about 18 to 60 working day to switch. When I was registering with BG I filled in a reading from ESB meter. Do saving start from the reading I gave or do ESB have to physical read my meter?
> 
> regards




From the reading you provided.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Fnergg (7 Mar 2009)

Towger said:


> I got my 'Final Bill' from the ESB yesterday, still no word fromBord Gais yet.



The fact that you have received your final bill from the ESB means that you have been switched. Your next bill for electricity will be from Bord Gais. That could take up to 2 months or a bit more depending on ESB Networks' meter reading cycle. (ESB Networks will continue to read your meter in the normal way). 

Regards,

Fnergg


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## theresa1 (7 Mar 2009)

Fnergg said:


> Because you get the bill before the direct debit goes through. Bord Gais/Airtricity/ESB give you 14 days to pay the bill. You therefore have plenty of time to contact them and ask them to stop the debit if the bill is over-estimated or if you a query on it. You also have a guarantee with the bank whereby if a debit does go through without your consent the bank will refund you the money immediately. So, in the unlikely event of you getting grief from the utility if a debit went through without your consent your bank will have to cough up. Seems like sufficient customer control to me.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fnergg


 
- Whatever about convenience you have more control by not having a direct debit set up and that's a simple fact!


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## seantheman (7 Mar 2009)

Fnergg said:


> The fact that you have received your final bill from the ESB means that you have been switched. Your next bill for electricity will be from Bord Gais. That could take up to 2 months or a bit more depending on ESB Networks' meter reading cycle. (ESB Networks will continue to read your meter in the normal way).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fnergg


i must say that i enjoyed reading your informative posts on this matter, many have tried to bait you but you have not risen to it, it's always nice to get two sides of a debate


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## lufc-Tom (7 Mar 2009)

Diziet said:


> Why on earth would you use a credit card to pay for energy bills?
> 
> Direct debits come with a guarantee, which means that the bank refunds your money in the case of error. So you are in charge, not the organisation. It may be worth checking up on this with the bank to put your mind at rest.
> 
> In an ideal world, how would you propose paying?



Pretty much as Theresa1 said ... they send/email me a bill. If the bill is accurate, I pay online with credit card; if not, I try to contact their a/cs dept.



Fnergg said:


> Because you get the bill before the direct debit goes through. Bord Gais/Airtricity/ESB give you 14 days to pay the bill. You therefore have plenty of time to contact them and ask them to stop the debit if the bill is over-estimated or if you a query on it. You also have a guarantee with the bank whereby if a debit does go through without your consent the bank will refund you the money immediately. So, in the unlikely event of you getting grief from the utility if a debit went through without your consent your bank will have to cough up. Seems like sufficient customer control to me.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fnergg



That is the theory. My experience with attempting to contact Chorus/Eircom a/cs depts in the past wasn't too successful. My initial post was an attempt to discover whether existing subscribers to Airtricity/BGE services have had difficulties with them in the past.

Media reports suggest there has been a large number of transfers to BGE. How confident are you that: 
a) the new billing process will work flawlessly
b) BGE have put the resources in place to deal with an increase in customer service calls

Obviously the same questions apply to Airtricity too ...

Cheers,
Tom


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## Fnergg (7 Mar 2009)

lufc-Tom said:


> ...............................
> 
> Media reports suggest there has been a large number of transfers to BGE. How confident are you that:
> a) the new billing process will work flawlessly
> ...



Very good points,Tom.

Electricity is not, after all, Bord Gais' core business and their customer service team may find it difficult to cope not merely with the large volumes of new business but with the very nature of electricity billing enquiries.    

The whole IT aspect of the matter must also be a concern. Thousands of extra customers are bound to out a strain on their billing systems and it will be very interesting to see how BGE's and Airtricity's will cope.Both companies of course have experience of commercial electricity customers but very large volumes of domestic customers are bound to present problems in the shorter term.  

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Complainer (8 Mar 2009)

Diziet said:


> Why on earth would you use a credit card to pay for energy bills?


Cash flow - defer payment for a further month
Loyalty schemes - get further 1% discount (Amex Blue)


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## tosullivan (12 Mar 2009)

So any idea which of the 2 new players would be better for me?

BG or Airtricity?

Currently with ESB.  I'm not using gas as I am on oil.  SO no saving for the existing customer with BG.

From what I've been reading BG guarantee min. 10% saving on year 1 and 5% year 2 & 3.  An extra 2% for going DD.  Am I right so far?

Airtricty seem to offer 12% discount with DD or 13% with the eBill?  Can someone explain the eBill and for how long Airtricity are offering these savings?

One last thing.  Are these discounts based on being % lower than the current ESB rates over the next few years?


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## esbnoway (14 Mar 2009)

Fnergg said:


> From the reading you provided.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fnergg


 
Fnergg 

I got my bill from esb yesterday and the meter reading is not what I gave when I signed up for BG. it looks like the same as any two monthly bill.

It does not look like I am getting BG rate from reading I supplied when I signed up.

Does anybody know when exactly I move to BG rate


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## Fnergg (16 Mar 2009)

esbnoway said:


> Fnergg
> 
> I got my bill from esb yesterday and the meter reading is not what I gave when I signed up for BG. it looks like the same as any two monthly bill.
> 
> ...


 
What may have happened here is that your normal ESB two-monthly bill crossed with your switch to Bord Gais. In other words, you should receive a special bill maked Closing Account from ESB shortly and that should be based on the reading you supplied to Bord Gais. If you don't, I would contact Bord Gais and ask them to confirm they are arranging to open your account with them from the reading you supplied.

Regards,

Fnergg


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## Fnergg (16 Mar 2009)

tosullivan said:


> So any idea which of the 2 new players would be better for me?
> 
> BG or Airtricity?
> 
> ...


 

The 10%+ discounts offered by BGE and Airtricity apply until January 2010.Thereafter, they will, they say, offer savings in the region of 5% against the ESB price. That shouldn't be difficult as the ESB is forced by the Regulator to keep its prices higher than its competitors in order to foster competition in the domestic market.

eBilling is getting your bill by email as against the traditional paper bill through your letter box. You will get an email reminder when the bill issues and if you really need a paper copy for your files you can just print one off.

The ESB has a similar approach with their eBilling system. Other companies (e.g. Eircom) send both a paper bill and an electronic one. 

So, which supplier should you go for - BGE or Airtricity? Doesn't really matter from a price perspective. The months ahead will show if there are any serious billing and/or customer service issues with these companies. They are getting a significant number of new customers. Let's hope their billing systems and customer service offerings will be up to scratch.

Regards,

Fnergg


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