# 92% of people yet to register for household charge



## NorfBank (28 Feb 2012)

Only 133,365 properties have been registered. 

€13.3 million raised.
Government hopes to raise an additonal €146.7m by March 31.

Good luck with that.

[broken link removed]


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## diem (28 Feb 2012)

Thanks for reminding me to register.


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## ali (28 Feb 2012)

Maybe because of this fake advice? 
http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/cur...vice-leaflet-is-given-to-homeowners-0021446-1


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## Ceist Beag (28 Feb 2012)

Will be really interesting to see how this pans out. The website won't be able to cope should the remaining 92% try and register over the coming 4 weeks but the chances of that happening anyway are, to put it mildly, slim!! So lets say even if 42% more register, leaving 50% not registered. How on earth can the government deal with that?


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## Conshine (28 Feb 2012)

If they abolish it, I hope they refund the ones that have paid - Likely??


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## demoivre (28 Feb 2012)

Conshine said:


> If they abolish it, I hope they refund the ones that have paid - Likely??



No chance - a comprehensive property tax is on the way which is a condition of the ECB/IMF bailout.


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## La Chime (28 Feb 2012)

‎8% registered at the end of February, so just to calculate- it was 5% the end of January, its now 8% the end of February, so that means for the whole of month of February, just an extra 3% registered and payed- not looking good for the goverment-another point, we don,t know how many out of those who registered have actually paid, and how many just registered to claim their excemption.


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## Bronte (1 Mar 2012)

Most people pay their bills only when they have to.  Was it not the same with the NPPR.  

This month I will register and pay about the 29th (last Thursday of the month).  Website will probably crash on the 30th.


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## csirl (1 Mar 2012)

I know there has a been a lot of info in the media about this, but has there been ANY official communication between the State and householder on this issue.

I have no recollection of receiving any letter, info leaflet, seeing and adverts etc etc from official sources. No 'how to register and pay' details have been circulated. So its not surprising that most people havent paid.


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## Palerider (3 Mar 2012)

I'm aware first hand of people that own other properties that are registered with the State already having registered those properties BUT excluded their homes and any properties that State bodies are not aware of, in that case the 133000 odd that have registered would skew these numbers.

I havn't registered myself yet and am very disinclined to, people power !


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## MB05 (3 Mar 2012)

On the whole the government have handled the introduction very badly. We got nothing official from them, they expect us to chase them to give them money. It's absurd. Why couldn't they get the names of householders from the Land Registry or the like and issue us with an invoice. 

What about people that don't read newspapers or watch the news? There are plenty of people like that. There are lots of people that never touch a computer either. 

I do and I barely know anything about it. The main reason I know anything about it is the hype generated by the opposition to it. If that wasn't being reported I wouldn't have a clue. 

I have no idea how to register either. I'll figure it out if and when I have to. I have to say I am normally law abiding, I pay every penny of every bill on time but I don't see why I should pay this when I haven't even been billed for it.

I paid over €12k in stamp duty when I bought my house so I feel that should be taken into account somehow. I've paid my due's.


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## Capricorn 1 (4 Mar 2012)

I am reluctant to register as I am struggling to keep my head above water with some rental properties. My fear is that if I register on the database, I will be liable for this proposed broadcasting charge when it comes in and maybe even a flat water charge, if water meters are not installed. I don't really have a problem with the household charge as it is a property tax, but really don't want to be paying for tenants broadcasting and water charges. It's all very well to say, raise the rents, but that is not possible with the current supply and demand situation, where it is difficult to get tenants.


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## Gervan (4 Mar 2012)

Battybrennan, you have to register and claim a waiver.


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## Protocol (4 Mar 2012)

MB05,

here's where to register:

www.householdcharge.ie


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## Protocol (4 Mar 2012)

MB05,

you'd need to be a hermit not to have heard of the Household Charge.

Many taxes are self-assessment, e.g. CGT, CAT, etc.


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## Protocol (4 Mar 2012)

csirl said:


> I know there has a been a lot of info in the media about this, but has there been ANY official communication between the State and householder on this issue.
> 
> I have no recollection of receiving any letter, info leaflet, seeing and adverts etc etc from official sources. No 'how to register and pay' details have been circulated. So its not surprising that most people havent paid.


 
Yes. Ads in papers, plus leaflet in my door.


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## PaddyBloggit (4 Mar 2012)

Leaflets undelivered in my area thus far.


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## potnoodler (4 Mar 2012)

Am I right in saying that if u don't pay with 12 it's increased by 20% 
So it'd be €120 or is there interest payable too


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## MB05 (4 Mar 2012)

Thanks for the link Protocol.


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## cork (7 Mar 2012)

If the vast majority of people don't register - do ye think the state will go after 10s of tousands of householders?


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## callybags (7 Mar 2012)

They will attach the charge to the property which will prevent it from being sold or transferred, same as the NPPR.

My opinion only.


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## 44brendan (7 Mar 2012)

cork said:


> If the vast majority of people don't register - do ye think the state will go after 10s of tousands of householders?


 
They have to! Otherwise the credibility of the State is totally undermined.


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## Protocol (7 Mar 2012)

cork said:


> If the vast majority of people don't register - do ye think the state will go after 10s of tousands of householders?


 

I hope so.

Extra penalty and interest income.

Every penny helps to reduce the fiscal deficit.

Probably wages/incomes will be garnished.


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## potnoodler (7 Mar 2012)

It'll be an interesting few months as they try to convince to sign up to the Berlin. Budgets in order to pay back their banks , even if it costs a bit more it sends a very weak sign to our politicians that we will voluntarily sign ourselves for more cuts and taxes which will destroy what is left in our economy ,


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## mcloving (9 Mar 2012)

Protocol said:


> Yes. Ads in papers, plus leaflet in my door.



The first leaflet I got was yesterday, too late for Direct debit as that expired march 1st.


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## mcloving (9 Mar 2012)

Protocol said:


> I hope so.
> 
> Extra penalty and interest income.
> 
> ...



Lets see , its going to be interesting. I can see a lot of people using this to vote against referendum.


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## Protocol (10 Mar 2012)

The planned EU Fiscal Compact is about fiscal policy in the future across the EU.

You should vote for or against it based on the treaty wording, not based on any opposition to a minor tax.


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## mcloving (10 Mar 2012)

Protocol said:


> The planned EU Fiscal Compact is about fiscal policy in the future across the EU.
> 
> You should vote for or against it based on the treaty wording, not based on any opposition to a minor tax.



Only Irish citizens can vote. There are approx 400-450k non nationals in ireland, do they not have a say.
They also pay tax here as well as having to deal with the desperate government policies over the last few years.


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## Protocol (10 Mar 2012)

Off-topic, 

You must be an Irish citizen to vote in a referendum

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ferenda/referenda/voting_in_a_referendum.html


Note that FG got a big vote in the last election, so people chose them.


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## jhegarty (13 Mar 2012)

Another 2 weeks and the figure is now 85%.

www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/household.html


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## STEINER (14 Mar 2012)

I registered and paid for 3 different relatives this evening.  I am curious as to the final countrywide registration numbers by the 31st March deadline.


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## Codogly (14 Mar 2012)

*85% not registered with two week to go ...*

Its hard to see it making 50% by end of March even allowing for all the last minute people. This could leave the government in a very awkward position... not really possible to pursue the remaining 50% realistically.


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## truthseeker (14 Mar 2012)

Latest figures here.



> Figures revealed yesterday that 85% of households have not registered or paid the charge, which is due before 31 March.
> 
> Speaking on Adhmhaidin on RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta, Deputy Higgins said that the figures were actually worse than the Government had indicated, as many of the 230,000 that had registered by yesterday afternoon were exempt from the payment.


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## Bronte (19 Mar 2012)

I registered today as I thought it might be a quiet day.  No problems other than it insists on a county but I live abroad.  They're very enthusastic of Irish in parts.  

As I had to registered more than one property does that skew the percentage figures for how many have registered.


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## truthseeker (19 Mar 2012)

Bronte said:


> As I had to registered more than one property does that skew the percentage figures for how many have registered.



I dont think so Bronte, the news reports seem to talk of the number of *properties* registered, as opposed to the number of people registered.

Example.



> ....251,458 *properties* had registered for the €100 fee....


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## Bronte (19 Mar 2012)

I didn't post that correctly Truthseeker.  What I should have said is if a property is divided into more than one unit does that skew the figures.


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## blueband (21 Mar 2012)

Protocol said:


> Off-topic,
> 
> You must be an Irish citizen to vote in a referendum
> 
> ...


that was before they went back on many of the promises they made to get elected in the first place!


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## roker (21 Mar 2012)

I am a UK citizen and lived in Ireland for 32 yrs and paid all of my taxes etc. Does this mean I am excluded from voting?


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## Fiskar (21 Mar 2012)

roker said:


> I am a UK citizen and lived in Ireland for 32 yrs and paid all of my taxes etc. Does this mean I am excluded from voting?


 
When it comes to taxes we don't exclude anyone, in fact we our best to include everyone to pay taxes regardless whether they have to or not!

Of course you can vote but you also can pay this tax


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## jhegarty (28 Mar 2012)

Latest update :

26% / 74% 

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0328/26-have-now-paid-household-charge.html


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## truthseeker (28 Mar 2012)

jhegarty said:


> Latest update :
> 
> 26% / 74%
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0328/26-have-now-paid-household-charge.html



wow - its a lot lower than I would have thought at this stage. I wonder does that figure include the numbers who have posted it in?

I feel the media is being confusing about numbers. There was an initial figure of 1.8 million with 1.73 million liable for the charge being bandied about:
here

Then various media began using the figure of 1.6 million to make the percentage comparison:
[broken link removed]

And its not usually reported if the figures used are those registered or those paid, one would assume that some registrations are those with waivers.


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## Bronte (29 Mar 2012)

Well I paid this morning. Very easy and now have a receipt in both English and Irish. 

I've seen many arguments on why people will not pay, so far I've not read one good one. Some of them downright riduculous. And the penalties are enough for me to know it's just plain stupid not to pay it. 

If the people are angry at the government then next election vote them out. In the meantime write to the politicians and complain not about the charge but about the lack of accountability, the waste, the incompetence of the local council etc. They will eventually get the message. If people wasted half as much energy on writing letters complaining about services as they do on this charge we would have a much better country. How about a campaign to clear up the local authorities, merge them, and get the facts and figures on where the money goes. How much they pay for each and every item in the public domain. Then we'd cut down on waste. 

And for all those who can pay but won't pay, well your just plain and simply selfish and the rest of us are paying for you and that ain't right.


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## Shawady (29 Mar 2012)

What happens if more than 50% of households don't pay?
We elect governments every 5 years to run the country, but what if the government brings in a law during the 5 years that a majority of people object to. Is this democracy?

I'm just thinking back to when governments have done u-turns and said they got it wrong in areas like the septic tanks, cuts to diasbility and OAP medical cards.


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## truthseeker (29 Mar 2012)

Shawady said:


> What happens if more than 50% of households don't pay?
> We elect governments every 5 years to run the country, but what if the government brings in a law during the 5 years that a majority of people object to. Is this democracy?
> 
> I'm just thinking back to when governments have done u-turns and said they got it wrong in areas like the septic tanks, cuts to diasbility and OAP medical cards.



I think the hope is that if the majority do not pay, it will be unenforceable in any practical way (take too long, cost too much etc...) and that the government will have to u turn.

You are correct, there have been u turns in the past. I suggested as such on this site before and Brendan answered me with 'so what'.


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## monagt (29 Mar 2012)

> I've seen many arguments on why people will not pay, so far I've not read one good one. Some of them downright riduculous. And the penalties are enough for me to know it's just plain stupid not to pay it.  Bronte



I totally agree with this. 
I have paid mine but only because its the law of the land and my vote will speak on that.

They will need my vote.

For services: 
I paid for Water in Meath for years while across the county line my friends paid nothing.........difference in service none.

I paid Car Tax for years.......does it improve the roads I use......NO
I pay huge taxes on Petrol.......Ditto
I paid the PMPA levy on my insurance.......did it improve regulation.......NO
Don't forget all the other taxes and levies collected..........VAT on everything (nearly)
Don't forget the robbery of cash from retirement accounts.
Don't forget all the other new charges.

This is just another TAX, plain and simple..............


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## Firefly (29 Mar 2012)

I am going to pay later on today, but think a lot of people will wait until Monday so see how many have paid by the deadline. It would be very difficult to see someone being charged for being a day late. That way they can wait and see if there's a U turn etc


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## Sunny (29 Mar 2012)

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the tax tax itself, this whole excerise was a complete shambles. I don't understand why they are so adament that the tax has to be paid by the 31st March considering the tax covers the whole of 2012. Just extend it and deal with some of the payment issues that people have. A lot of people still won't pay but it would stop this daily countdown that doesn't help.  

Their other problem now is the Phil Hogan is a political liability to FG. Have to admit that afer listening to him a few times, I would be tempted to tell him where to stick his household charge.


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## 44brendan (29 Mar 2012)

> Their other problem now is the Phil Hogan is a political liability to FG. Have to admit that afer listening to him a few times, I would be tempted to tell him where to stick his household charge


. 
Discussed his radio interviews with some colleagues this morning. It appears that he came across as arrogant and bullying and some of those who were about to pay the household charge in the next day or so are now stating that they will not do so, just to prove that they are not being intimidated.
His approach is not ideal & the Government do need to rein him in. He has not covered himself in glory in his handling of this issue and should now consider eating some humble pie.


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## Shawady (29 Mar 2012)

The government have said if it is not paid, they will have to increase taxation. If it's only €2 a week, why not just increase tax by this amount and deduct €2 a week of the dole and OAP?
It's all going into a central fund anyway.


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## mcloving (29 Mar 2012)

Bronte said:


> Well I paid this morning. Very easy and now have a receipt in both English and Irish.



Why is it not in polish too, there are more polish speakers here than irish.  Usual irish government crap policies..


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## mandelbrot (29 Mar 2012)

mcloving said:


> Why is it not in polish too, there are more polish speakers here than irish. Usual irish government crap policies..


 
Because Irish and English are the two official languages in Ireland. It's tough luck if you aren't literate in either of those.


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## Firefly (29 Mar 2012)

Shawady said:


> The government have said if it is not paid, they will have to increase taxation. If it's only €2 a week, why not just increase tax by this amount and deduct €2 a week of the dole and OAP?
> It's all going into a central fund anyway.


 
I think they will being in all of these new taxes/levies/whatever and then income tax increases and dole/OAP cuts will happen..


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## truthseeker (29 Mar 2012)

The latest figures, as of midday today.



> The latest figures from the Department of the Environment show that 453,796, or around 28% of the estimated 1.6 million households, have paid the controversial tax.



It gives a breakdown:


> Here is a breakdown of how the money has been collected so far:
> 
> Direct Debits Bureau: €408,700
> Cards Bureau: €1,595,500
> ...


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## reddanmm (29 Mar 2012)

Again i have to say if it is a payment going towards services how come only homeowners have to pay 
will homeowners only be allowed to use the libraries and parks. Will council tenants and renters be banned from said amenities.  
Again the homeowner is being made to suffer and have to pay for everything again .


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## PaddyBloggit (30 Mar 2012)

Good point *reddanmm*!


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## ajapale (30 Mar 2012)

Some OT posts have been removed.


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