# Engineer, thinking of moving to Council



## construct_06 (20 Apr 2007)

I've gotten myself a job in the Co. Co. as an Assistant Eng. (40k), but straight away i will be acting up as Executive Engineer (46k) for 1 year at least.

I'm currently working as a project engineer in a consulting engineers office and have been in this line of work for a good number of years.

Now i also do a lot of private work in the evenings and weekends (eg. planning applications etc......) I would, i believe have to give up all of this if i went to work with the Council.

But at my present job i have no pension and they are not beating down my door to offer me one either. At the Council there is a good pension.

The advantages of moving are:

Permanent job, guaranteed
Pensionable
Good holidays
Good working hours
Less Pressure
Possibility of career breaks
More free time, cos i cannot do plans in evening...
The disadvantages are:

Experience not as good as industry
Moving from a job i like
Moving from the type of work i like (structural)
Cannot do plans in evening, weekends (so loss of ~€15k/year)
So im looking:


Advice as which option to take
More information on Co. Co. pension, incl. can u buy back years, can u put in Avcs, what is retirement age?
More info on starting salary, eg. do u have to start at the bottom rate for a particular grade?
what type of work is not included in the declaration to be signed preventing me from carrying out external work which might conflict with my council job?
Anything  else anyone feels relevant.....


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## demoivre (20 Apr 2007)

> Cannot do plans in evening, weekends (so loss of ~€15k/year)



Sure can't you get your brother or sister to do the plans for you.


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## monkeyboy (20 Apr 2007)

Its a whole different life style, If pressure and priorities keeps you alive then you may have difficulty adjusting.

I studied engineering originally and many mates work in consultancies and the corpo or on site. Its a different kind of person who move to the Co co etc from the guys in the consultancies or site for sure....

Guys in there say it is very laid back and they love it for all the reasons you outline above. They also say that you can take on as much as you want, so if its a bit slack you may be able to go hunting for activity or hide in civil service anonimity what ever suits.

I did a summer in the co co years ago and the pure horizontolness of the whle thing would put me off ever thnking of working there this side of having kids any way!


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## construct_06 (20 Apr 2007)

Ya, ye have outlined some of my concerns/views.

I had always thought that as an engineer, if you went in to the Council, you go in to retire and that it would not be a very progressive career move. but im 30 now, no pension, getting married next year, job is fine, i like my private work but i am pretty busy all the time. I like this but as the gf has pointed out, maybe i could/should take up other hobbies away from my work and maybe some of these new hobbies could make me money aswell! So im thinking of layin timber floors or a bit of building ......

Anyways i think the plans would have to be out. I thought about puttin someone elses name on them but id say u could still get caught?! I dont know enough about it.

But i have spoken to a few people in the Council and they have assured me that there will be no pressure. But i kinda like to be involved in something with a bit of momentum u know.  I'd say guys can do well in the Council and be driven/progressive. The idea of hiding in th Council for the next 30 years is awful - why did i slave thru' college?!  I will miss the technical side of things....

Anyways thanx for the advice....


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## construct_06 (20 Apr 2007)

could anyone direct me towards where i would get some info on:

Local Authority Pensions

Public Service Pay

Public Service Holidays

etc....


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## Dundhoone (20 Apr 2007)

I've just made the move from private to public sector, took an exec engineer job with a local authority.  my pay stayed the same, slightly less hours, ten days extra hols. heres the thing, despite the commonly held myth that you "retire" to the council, my workload is similar, if not more, than when in consultancy.  Other execs have similar workloads.  The senior execs and senior engineers are often in here till six or seven in the evenings, not sure if they have some sort of OT arrangement or not.  I do agree the pressure to get things done by deadlines is not as great, but I am expected to move things along all the same.  Yes they are VERY strict about the outside work ban, there have been staff who were asked to leave over it. So forget that.  Theres definately not as much support as in consultancy, you are dropped in and have to find your own way, which is where I think things break down in the public sector.   timing on when to join the local authority as an eng is important. Best to have done 5,6,7 years in consultants for the experience, when you join LA you will still have enough years left to get the full 40 years pension before 65.  Pension is 50% final salary and thay take 2250 euro from your 46k salary to cover this. you'll have 29-30 days hols ...woohoo.  pay scales are google-able.  You will find it fairly easy to get promoted through interview from assistant to exec as long as you have the 5 years exp required and arent a complete gombeen!  Try it for a year. Its what im doing. Ask away if you have any more questions.


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## NiallA (20 Apr 2007)

hi construct-06,
i have been working in a local authorities for last 10yrs and am currently working at senior exec level.  certainly not a retirement, often expected to work extra hours, and engineers contract is for a fixed salary, and you are expected to work whatever hours required (ie no overtime paid).
The outside work ban is set down in law (local government officers regulations 1984)  you cannot use your profession outside work at all.
certainly the work for the councils is generally not as technical as consultants may be, but more the role of a technical manager.
The holidays vary from council to council as each are independent employers, but the salaries are set by the DOEHLG.  
The pension is based on 1/80th of your salary for each years service, less twice the rate of the contributory old age pension, (ie after 40 years they pay enough to bring the contributory old age pension up to half your salary),  the lump sum is based on 3/80ths of your salary for each years service.  There is the bonus of professional added years for engineers, (i think upto 1/3 extra years free, but is subject to a maximum)
Your also can get credit for the time you have spent in private practice for incremental purposes for every year of relevant postgraduate experience you have in excess of 5 years (ie 6, 7, 8 etc) for an assistant or 8 years for an executive engineer, you get the benefit of an increment on the salary scale.
i don't think you can buy back years ( i didn't have to check as i didn't need them) but you can take out AVC's.  the maximum retirement age for new entrants now is 67 (AFAIK you can take early retirement from 62 but this obviously affects your pension).

if you want any further details PM me and i'll see what i can get for you.


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## construct_06 (22 Apr 2007)

cheers for the replies guys.

My situation is that i have 5 years experience postgrad. I am 29. I have been offered the lowest scale on the Assistant Engineer Grade. Should i be eligible for a higher point on this scale, eg. point 2 or 3, as i already have 5 years experience?

this is important because if i act up for the 1st year as Executive Engineer with salary of €46k then drop back down to €40k, this will be a bit of a shock to the system, whereas if started on point 3 or 4 of the Assistant Engineer grade then the drop back would mnot be as significant...


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## NiallA (22 Apr 2007)

with 5 years postgrad experience you would only get the 1st point of the assistant engineer scale i'm afraid.

in my experience, the council won't budge from the circular letter from the DOEHLG on this.  (this is were the private sector are much more flexible)


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## construct_06 (23 Apr 2007)

Do u have links to these various Circulars?


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## NiallA (23 Apr 2007)

sorry,

some of them are on the internet (some of the circulars go back to the '40s and are not online), unfortunately you need a password to acces the site.

the council that has offered you the job should have a copy though, you can ask them for it.


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## Dundhoone (28 Apr 2007)

NiallA said:


> hi construct-06,
> i have been working in a local authorities for last 10yrs and am currently working at senior exec level.  certainly not a retirement, often expected to work extra hours, and engineers contract is for a fixed salary, and you are expected to work whatever hours required (ie no overtime paid).


 Only some Local authoritys have the "expected to work OT for no extra renumeration"  Clause.  Watch out for it!  I cant believe siptu allowed that to sneak into some LA's.  Its unreal.   Niall - how many years after college did you get to senior exec? I know the minimum is 7 yrs experence but I have heard of this being , shall we say "flexed" a bit.


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## construct_06 (21 May 2007)

Well, i've decided, having weighed up all the pros and cons to take the job in the Council. I feel there are too many benefits for me to turn it down, such as:

less working hours per day/week
more holidays per year
less stress (although i like a dynamic environment)
possibilities of career break
defined benefit pension (biggest factor for me)
extra pay..

I've been told thjat initially i will be placed in the Road Design section. Does anybody have any experience of the type of work carried out in these sections of local authorities?


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## cerberos (22 May 2007)

Congrats, its the best decision you will ever make. 
Private Salary for unstressed smaller workload & great hours. 
Also, when you get older you will not be competing with younger & cheaper engineers for work and will be insulated from down turns.
My pal worked in the public and went private for more money (and excitment cause he was bored!!) but the public sector achieved parity (why, I do not know) and on an hour for hour basis are paid more + less stress, better working environment, better time off, index linked pension, flex working hours, the list goes on and on.

Note:
In the private sector you need to contribute 28% for 40 years to achieve a public sector undex linked pension. (and whom  can do that?)

C


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## shivers (8 Aug 2007)

How does one go about getting an engineering position within the council? Would you have to wait for an advertised position or could you send in your CV and see what happens? 
I have been working in a consultants for the last 6.5yrs and really need a change, am hoping to try and get into the council in the hope it will be less stressful, and more regular hours. I did work a summer there about 8 yrs ago aswell. Any advice?


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## RainyDay (8 Aug 2007)

shivers said:


> How does one go about getting an engineering position within the council?


Watch www.publicjobs.ie - They won't act on CVs sent in on spec.


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