# €10k Irish Debt - Live in UK - Intend to Pay



## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

- I have a loan with just over €2,600 outstanding paying approx €80 a month. I can make these payments and have done so. (AIB)
- I also have an overdraft of €2,750 which is constantly up to the red (AIB)
- I have a credit card with a limit of €5,000 which is a few hundred short of the limit. (AIB)

In 2016 I had a tough break up with my ex. I previously took a loan out from the bank and raised my credit card to help finance move to a new place (renting and to furnish) her folks had issues and her mother was involved in serious issues with my exs stepfather beating family members up so I lent the family €2,500 to assist with issues they badly needed. Yes it was stupid, I realise that.

A few months later my ex left me but I was entered into a lease at €1,450 + bills a month which had only recently been renewed, I had no choice but to continue this even though I really could not afford to pay this and the bills myself, because of the lease commitment and the fact all bills were jointly in our name which ate away at my savings, but with cut-backs on non essential areas I was able to run at a loss of no more than €150.

Soon as the lease ended I moved out to share with a friend and reduced my monthly rent and bills by approx half to €800. However just before CHristmas I was laid off from work and was hit by a 25% rent increase a few days earlier and demands from my flatmate of half of a €400 electricity bill (80% used by her) and found it impossible to pay this for more than a couple of months as just when I was finding my feet I lost my income,

In the end, being British, I returned to the family in UK as a safe place to go, sustained a bicycle accident and was unable to work for approx two months, the person I was staying with sold out so without any income I had to go to another relatives who live in a rural area with little chance of jobs. I've done some temporary work but have found it hard to find employment because whilst my skills are in plentiful demand they are not in rural areas.

Basic facts for the last several months:
- I have income of £292 a week from Jobseekers in the UK
- I am paying €80 a month on loan repayments to AIB
- I'm also having to pay €125 a month minimum on credit card to AIB
- Every 3 months I'm paying €80 in quarterly overdraft interest + €15 bank fees.

On each month I've got about £50-£60 left over which isn't enough so effectively I'm having to supplement this with credit card spending, so even though I may pay €120 off the credit card, I end up having to spend almost all that for daily living so the balance doesn't go down and the €6.25 fee each time I transfer money from UK to IE doesn't help.

I have never missed a repayment or gone over any limits, but I worry about December since at the end of December I will have to pay €125 credit card + €80 Loan + bank fees + overdraft interest + facility fee. I will almost certainly go over limit or miss a payment at that point and I cannot afford it.

I would like to constructively work on dealing with this debt with AIB but I'm scared of doing so because realistically offering paying €100 a month of a debt this big sounds a totally pathetic figure to suggest, but of course it will increase when I gain employment.

I post here as debt companies seem unwilling to help me much because of the fact I live in the UK and the debts are in Ireland so the debt charities here don't want to touch cross border debt, the fall of the pound hasn't helped.


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## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

Any help really appreciated.


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## vandriver (17 Oct 2017)

Is your income £292 a week,or a month?
Will you be coming back to Ireland?
Have you informed AIB about your difficulties?
It seems on the face of it,that you can't actually afford any repayments and you should inform AIB of that.
It's probably on a month or two till you max the card,then you're going to have to face your reality.
What will happen then is that you will get piles of letters,then eventually debt collectors will try,then seeing as you're in the UK,and the amount is really not that much...probably nothing.
So,don't pay anything for 6 months,and save up a deposit for accommodation where the jobs are.


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## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

> Is your income £292 a week,or a month?


£146 a fortnight UK Jobseekers which is effectively the same - however I have to sign on every 2 weeks which costs me £6 bus fare since out in the sticks, so effectively I'm £280


> Will you be coming back to Ireland?


I cannot answer that for sure, but I do not have any strong requirement to do so. But I have no family there, but if it was my own way, I'd never have left but was put in an impossible position of having toleave.


> Have you informed AIB about your difficulties?


Not yet. I believed that I could ride it out since I would find a job easier. I've read their literature about it on the website though, but everything mentions visiting AIB in branch or making an appointment - impossible when you're in another country. 


> It seems on the face of it,that you can't actually afford any repayments and you should inform AIB of that. It's probably on a month or two till you max the card,then you're going to have to face your reality.


My credit card balance is fairly stable, on an average month the amount I spend on it + interest is a little more than the minimum payment I have never missed so the card could go for another several months most likely without me maxing it, the problem comes when I face the quarterly interest charges, bank fees, stamp duty and facility charges.

The bigger issue is the fact that whilst I get £292 a month jobseekers from the UK, at least £215 of that is going via international transfer to my AIB account, to ensure that there is another buffer on my overdraft so AIB can take the €80 loan repayment and make the €125 payment on the credit card, bearing in mind that AIB take a 6.35 fee for an incoming international payment and my UK bank charges me to make one also.

Realistically late December and early January is going to be where it catches up on me as within a week I'll have bank fees (€15) Loan (€80) Credit Card (€130 estimate) Quarterly interest on overdraft (€75) Facility fee €25) and Stamp Duty (€40) all being due, that is going to total €365 which is obviously going to be impossible for me to pay on an income of £292.


> What will happen then is that you will get piles of letters,then eventually debt collectors will try,then seeing as you're in the UK,and the amount is really not that much...probably nothing.So,don't pay anything for 6 months,and save up a deposit for accommodation where the jobs are.


But there is the prospect of them seeking to enforce in the UK and then taking out a CCJ in the UK no or other actions?

I could have simply ran to the UK and not give AIB my new address, but I did, because I'm a citizen who believes in paying their debts when I can rather than defaulting. I've never defaulted on something in my life and had an excellent credit rating up until the break up.


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## vandriver (17 Oct 2017)

'But there is the prospect of them seeking to enforce in the UK and then taking out a CCJ in the UK no or other actions?'
Not much.And at least a year.The process just isn't that quick.


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## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

It really takes that long?

My fear is if I don't pay and leave it and walk away
1) I'd feel guilty
2) The debt of €10k will end up becoming €15k or more from all the additional unauthorised overdraft charges, late payment and overlimit fees on the credit card etc.


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## RichardTea (17 Oct 2017)

Sorry to hear you got stuck in a debt trap. I keep reading about them in the Guardian but I think in Ireland people are more blasé about just not paying off their loans. Fellow Brit here but don't have experience of that sort of debt myself - however I have a few tricks from when I was a student in Ireland, which helped me avoid it and might help you.

Try using Revolut to avoid foreign transaction fees (requires a smartphone app) - that will save you £10 a month at least.

UK banks love to throw out cheap to 0% balance transfer credit cards and you might get one of these to transfer some debt to and reduce monthly interest. Or enrol as a student in some sort of eligible course to get a free £2-3k sterling overdraft. Some banks will give you a free overdraft anyway for a monthly fee or whatever. Basically borrowing in the UK is much cheaper and easier and you should do it ASAP before your credit file is hit the UK. A good site to look at would be moneysavingexpert to find the best deals.

As you're UK resident you may not need to pay stamp duty on your Irish credit card - you don't have to pay it on a UK account. If you stop spending on your Irish credit card that will go away, and you will also stop getting charged 3% ish for currency conversion on each transaction.

If you've little job prospects and might be stuck in the trap for years then does it matter if you default on debt. Maybe bankruptcy/insolvency is an option. Or some way of restructuring your debts to a lower interest rate maybe with a personal loan. This might not be an option for you though.

I imagine the interest rate on the credit card is probably higher and maybe you'll persuade AIB to give you a pause in paying off the personal loan in order to pay that down more quickly.

You could consider moving back to Ireland to get much much more in benefits from the state and you can rent a room for next to nothing in the West of Ireland.

Sorry for multiple edits, just added in a few other thoughts.


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## vandriver (17 Oct 2017)

I just wonder how you are eating and paying bills.


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## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

RichardTea said:


> Sorry to hear you got stuck in a debt trap. I keep reading about them in the Guardian but I think in Ireland people are more blasé about just not paying off their loans.


I never thought I would get stuck in one truth be told, thought it would never be me, I was never in debt my whole life since graduating but the series of events which happened ultimately put me up a creek without a paddle so to speak.


> UK banks love to throw out cheap to 0% balance transfer credit cards and you might get one of these to transfer some debt to and reduce monthly interest.


I have got an approval for a £200 overdraft with my UK bank when I opened an account a few months ago but pretty much everything else is subject to me gaining employment, I asked around the banks and I don't think any of this is going to be a goer unfortunately, I was in Ireland for 12 years so essentially they have no info to go on in the UK.


> As you're UK resident you may not need to pay stamp duty on your Irish credit card


My AIB Account is registered with a UK address now, so they shouldn't be charging me anything?


> don't have to pay it on a UK account. If you stop spending on your Irish credit card that will go away, and you will also stop getting charged 3% ish for currency conversion on each transaction.


Effectively I have to spend on my Irish Credit card to allow me to survive right now.
- I get £292 a month
- I transfer £210 to AIB account allowing €125 paid off CC a month and €80 off loan
- Frees up room to use the CC fo daily living using contact less to avoid some charges.
- I then add that to the £82 remaining and live off that for the month.


> If you've little job prospects and might be stuck in the trap for years then does it matter if you default on debt. Maybe bankruptcy/insolvency is an option. Or some way of restructuring your debts to a lower interest rate maybe with a personal loan. This might not be an option for you though.


Realistically the very very most i could afford to pay a month would be €100 and that would be on condition all other one off and quarterly charges are suspended. It would take 10 years to pay off at that rate, but obviously I would up repayments when I found work.


> You could consider moving back to Ireland to get much much more in benefits from the state and you can rent a room for next to nothing in the West of Ireland.


Perhaps - however the issue is as I found when I looked last year before coming back to the UK, finding a place to live before you have a job is very difficult.



vandriver said:


> I just wonder how you are eating and paying bills.


I'm staying with family in a spare room right now so I don't have bills as such, but for food I'm averaging spending no more than £3 a day, I've literally cut right back to the bone in every area I can.


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## vandriver (17 Oct 2017)

You need to look after yourself,not the bank.It is simply not sustainable to pay anything while on £280 a month.
You need to move on with your life,not just barely exist on sub Saharan income .
How do you hope to replace clothes or shoes ?


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## RonaOha (17 Oct 2017)

vandriver said:


> You need to look after yourself,not the bank.It is simply not sustainable to pay anything while on £280 a month.


I see what you mean and part of me agrees - but I just have very strong principles unfortunately.


> How do you hope to replace clothes or shoes ?


I will not be at that point just yet since i am not short of these things thankfully, but obviously that could start to be a problem next year, this is why essentially I need to get this resolved before December since the situation is only feasible for this month and next month as I will run out of money by the end of December where I will not be able to pay over €300 of quarterly charges and repayments.


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## RichardTea (18 Oct 2017)

RonaOha said:


> Perhaps - however the issue is as I found when I looked last year before coming back to the UK, finding a place to live before you have a job is very difficult.


From my experience in the west just a cash deposit and a month's rent upfront secures you a room. Sounds like you don't have that but probably have the means to scrape it together. I'm renting a big ensuite in a western county town for €230 a month. Plenty of jobs going here too and direct train to Dublin and bus to local airport available. It's quite possible to live in town and walk everywhere you need to go as my housemate does.



> Effectively I have to spend on my Irish Credit card to allow me to survive right now.
> - I get £292 a month
> - I transfer £210 to AIB account allowing €125 paid off CC a month and €80 off loan
> - Frees up room to use the CC fo daily living using contact less to avoid some charges.
> ...


As far as I know UK jobseeker's allowance is designed only to cover costs of getting to job interviews. There are other benefits available when you're unemployed but very difficult to access if you're a genuine person who doesn't want to fiddle the system, and it takes a long time to get in somewhere and reap the benefits of social housing etc.

Others here will be able to advise you better but you can prove to AIB you don't have the means to pay off your debts in your current situation. hopefully they will let you come to an arrangement like €100 a month, compared to some of the people on here's arrears you are still doing great.

If you can't get AIB to come to an arrangement then you probably need to default on one of your debts. Usually the credit card would be the higher interest rate here in Ireland but depending on charges for using your overdraft paying that off and closing your Irish current account might be more beneficial. (then use Revolut as current account to make your payments). Perhaps stop paying off the loan and keep enough income to pay your day to day living expenses. You can maybe then afford to keep making the minimum repayment on the credit card so don't have to default on that and get it paid down ASAP. Interest rates are like 20-25% aren't they so that will build up by €1000-1250 a year. But I think you should definitely stop spending on the credit card as that's creating more debt which is the opposite of what you want to do.

Not overly familiar on the consequences of default, but if I was you I would never want to borrow money again and not care about a CCJ or whatever on my credit file.


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## vandriver (18 Oct 2017)

Don't pay another cent to AIB,save £680 and
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-bankruptcy ,while you have no income.In 12 months you'll be debt free and discharged from bankruptcy.


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## TLO (18 Oct 2017)

vandriver said:


> Don't pay another cent to AIB



Plus one on this.  £292 a month is way below the threshold which would trigger an Income Payments Agreement in a bankruptcy scenario.

As a UK (England or Wales) resident with no property, and debts of less than £15k, RonaOha is entitled to apply for a Debt Relief Order.  It lasts for a year, same as bankruptcy, wipes out all listed debts, but only costs £90.  Apply through an intermediary such as the local Citizens Advice, Stepchange or National Debt Line.


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## RichInSpirit (18 Oct 2017)

Hi RonaOha.
Congratulations on surviving so well on so little. And maintaining an unblemished credit record.
I have more income but a totally tarnished credit record.
Your loan, credit card and overdraft are all with AIB. If you combined all these into a term loan, lose the credit card and overdraft, you should be a little bit better off provided that the  loan doesn't have too high an interest rate.


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## RichInSpirit (18 Oct 2017)

On mature reflection Vandrivers and TLO's advice is probably much better.


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## RonaOha (18 Oct 2017)

vandriver said:


> Don't pay another cent to AIB,save £680 and,while you have no income.In 12 months you'll be debt free and discharged from bankruptcy.


Thanks - I will take a look later, I thought about bankruptcy but there seems to be a lot of consequences for that and quite a long-winded and expensive process?


TLO said:


> Plus one on this.  £292 a month is way below the threshold which would trigger an Income Payments Agreement in a bankruptcy scenario. As a UK (England or Wales) resident with no property, and debts of less than £15k, RonaOha is entitled to apply for a Debt Relief Order.  It lasts for a year, same as bankruptcy, wipes out all listed debts, but only costs £90.  Apply through an intermediary such as the local Citizens Advice, Stepchange or National Debt Line.


So far I have had brief discussions with some of the above and they have been less than helpful because the debt is from another state, they seem to think that they cannot help me in such circumstances?


RichInSpirit said:


> Hi RonaOha.
> Congratulations on surviving so well on so little. And maintaining an unblemished credit record.
> I have more income but a totally tarnished credit record.
> Your loan, credit card and overdraft are all with AIB. If you combined all these into a term loan, lose the credit card and overdraft, you should be a little bit better off provided that the loan doesn't have too high an interest rate.


I'm a man of my word. The problem is I'm effectively stuck in a trap since I cannot save anything and  I'm literally living week to week and some weeks I'm down to my last £10 before getting my next payment for jobseekers.

Thing is if I'm paying €80 a month off now + €5k card + €2.75k overdraft, even if they spread it over five years 10k is effectively going to be €167 a month without any interest or other charges which right now is not going to be affordable, or are AIB going to allow me to spread it over a longer term?

Despite the fact the last 12-18 months have been tough I've always made all repayments, trimming everything back to the bone, but December will be where it catches up with me sadly.


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## vandriver (18 Oct 2017)

It's time to think about  YOU.If you want to be freeloading in some relatives bedroom eating noodles for the rest of your productive years,while engaging in a noble but futile attempt to repay huge(to you) debts,then carry on.
But,as it stands,even if you landed a chance of a dream job in the big city,you couldn't even afford the transport cost for the interview.
You are so wrapped up in the stress,worry and struggle of AIB's problem that you can't see the bigger picture.
You are only reducing your debts by about 8 quid a week,and condemning yourself to a bleak future in doing so.


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## RonaOha (18 Oct 2017)

vandriver said:


> It's time to think about  YOU.If you want to be freeloading in some relatives bedroom eating noodles for the rest of your productive years,while engaging in a noble but futile attempt to repay huge(to you) debts,then carry on.


I don't - but also it makes me feel a little ashamed to go bankrupt or get a debt relief order etc, maybe I shouldn't but I've always been the most careful person with money all my life and it's not a step I take easy.


> But,as it stands,even if you landed a chance of a dream job in the big city,you couldn't even afford the transport cost for the interview. You are so wrapped up in the stress,worry and struggle of AIB's problem that you can't see the bigger picture.


Very true, I guess I was just brought up to always pay debts and have a strong sense of morals


> You are only reducing your debts by about 8 quid a week,and condemning yourself to a bleak future in doing so.


Generally more than that since I'm paying AIB €80 a month loan repayment which I never have missed. but you're right, the bank balance is hovering around the same month to month (just below overdraft limit) and the credit card is stable but not going down (payments I make are generally equal to usage + interest, again in line with minimum requirements)


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## TLO (18 Oct 2017)

RonaOha said:


> So far I have had brief discussions with some of the above and they have been less than helpful because the debt is from another state, they seem to think that they cannot help me in such circumstances?



The below quotation is from the Technical Manual of The Insolvency Service.  It basically says that debts incurred outside England and Wales can be included. It would have the effect of preventing AIB from taking legal action against you in England or Wales.  A DRO that includes Irish debt is unusual but possible.   

*46.85 Territorial extent of effect of a DRO*
_
A DRO will have effect only in England and Wales, though any qualifying debts (see [broken link removed]) incurred outside of England and Wales can be included in the DRO – the effect of this being that the creditor would not be able to take action to recover the debt (see [broken link removed]) in England and Wales._

The URL from which the above was taken is:
[broken link removed]


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## vandriver (18 Oct 2017)

You are paying 80 euro a month in total less interest (15-20%?),so about 8 pounds is ballpark per week in net reduction.


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## RonaOha (18 Oct 2017)

My interest rate isn't anywhere near that high, the loan is just over 9% APR.


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## vandriver (18 Oct 2017)

My apologies,you are probably whittling down that debt by £12 a week so.
Doesn't change one word of my advice though.


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## RonaOha (18 Oct 2017)

Granted - I dropped into local citizens advice today, unfortunately my center is one which doesn't have the relevant expertise, the CAB says most centers have a DRO representative but mine don't.


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## RonaOha (19 Oct 2017)

Spoke to National Debtline today, unfortunately once again they won't touch it as it's Irish Debts for a UK citizen which they will not get involved in. They say they can only take on ROI debts if there are UK debts as well

Stepchange said they're not able to provide any debt solution for me as the debts are from outside the UK, they can help me with a budget and offer advice on how to deal with the debts but no actual debt solution.

Everyone I have contacted tells me to deal with the creditor directly sadly.


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

The only way that you'll get any attention off AIB is to not pay them.
Even then,it will take a year of writing you letters before the debt collectors become involved.
I'd be inclined to do just that.
If it comes to it,you can fill out a statement of financial means,which will show zero repayment capacity.
Just ringing AIB up before you get in trouble will achieve very little in my personal experience.
Honestly,they are not going to throw money at a problem in the UK,when there is nothing to go for.


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## anydroid (19 Oct 2017)

I can give you the benefit of a friend's experience but can't advise on your own situation.
A friend left AIB with £2k credit card debit in 2010 due to unemployment/immigration etc.
AIB froze the balance and it stopped accumulating interest.
There was an initial inquiry from an agent on behalf of AIB but nothing more came of it.
AIB closed her current account so there was effectively no way of making payments into the card.
Recently (6 yrs later) another agent on behalf of AIB offered a 50% settlement which she accepted and is now paying by instalment.
She understands that her Irish credit rating will be affected by the write down, but deems the 50% settlement to be preferable to being chased by UK collectors for the full amount... which would threaten her UK credit history, mortgage prospects, etc.
*Best of luck.*


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

The debt was statute barred after 6 years(or about to become statute barred).
No one was going to chase her.They took advantage of her ignorance of the law.( acknowledging the debt by making a payment has reactivated it,and will stay on her credit record for 5 years after the debt is paid off)


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## RonaOha (19 Oct 2017)

vandriver said:


> The only way that you'll get any attention off AIB is to not pay them.
> Even then,it will take a year of writing you letters before the debt collectors become involved. I'd be inclined to do just that.
> If it comes to it,you can fill out a statement of financial means,which will show zero repayment capacity.


But if I do that the debt will skyrocket with all the missed payment, surcharge interest to add a few more grand on no? 


> Just ringing AIB up before you get in trouble will achieve very little in my personal experience.
> Honestly,they are not going to throw money at a problem in the UK,when there is nothing to go for.


Just the idea of a €10k debt skyrocketing to say €15k whilst I completely ignore it doesn't sit well with me.


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## anydroid (19 Oct 2017)

@vandriver
Unfortunate if true, but she felt she was doing the right thing. She had broken a repayment plan agreed with AIB, so the statue bar may have been reset to her last payment (which she can't remember the date of). Ultimately her priority was to avoid collection in the UK while seeking a mortgage there.


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## RonaOha (19 Oct 2017)

Spoke to a specialist in overseas debt from National Debtline. She told me that I qualify for a DRO, however I should be careful with AIB. They cannot touch me during a DRO when living in the UK, but they don't have to recognise the DRO and ave a track record of keeping accounts open for the whole of the DRO and adding charges and interests during this time so the debt skyrockets so if I do take out a DRO  I'd best make sure that my spare funds don't go above €50 a month. 

Reason I was told this is that if I gain employment the DRO will be struck off and I could be liable for a much higher amount of debt that has grew between the order being granted and me gaining employment which essentially would make my situation worse than it is now. She said effectively with AIB they will only freeze the debt after the 12 month DRO is up since they can't do a thing after that regardless of what happens to my circumstances. 

So I've been advised to simply send a budget statement to AIB and say I cannot afford to pay anything and offer a token payment of €1 a month until my situation improves. If they refuse then threaten to take out a DRO which could result in them getting zilch from me ever again. which she says may well make them sit up and listen to what I am saying when they realise that €1 a month with the chances of more when my situation improves is better than a DRO and potentially nothing. 

Anyone advise on how I should draft a letter to AIB?


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

RonaOha said:


> But if I do that the debt will skyrocket with all the missed payment, surcharge interest to add a few more grand on no?
> 
> Just the idea of a €10k debt skyrocketing to say €15k whilst I completely ignore it doesn't sit well with me.


When your overdraft goes overlimit in a couple of months,the letters and cost escalation will start.Then you won't be able to pay your credit card,because the current account will take the money to pay the overlimit.This thing is coming.
Ideally,you need a career.
For that you need a flat/houseshare deposit.
For that,you need to amass some cash.
For that,you need to stop the futile and quickly to be doomed exercise is paying your bills .
And when you have an income,you can make a small but sensible offer per month .
Ps you know that overdrafts are repayable on demand?


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## RonaOha (19 Oct 2017)

I'm going to send a letter to AIB on Tuesday based on a template letter supplied by the National Debtline this saying that I am assessing my situation and getting external advice and asking if they can place a hold on the accounts and suspend interest and charges whilst I do that, which is what I have been advised to do and in the meantime get proof of incoming and outgoings to submit to AIB shortly after..

I'm waiting until Tuesday since I get the next batch of jobseekers allowance on Wednesday and I still need to have access to my AIB account until then at least as I only have a tenner left in my UK account right now since I paid the rest of the AIB credit card bill the Monday just gone and I may need that credit card between now and when I get money on Wednesday. 

After I submit the letter to AIB I will cease all repayments on loan and credit card. 

Does this sound like a sensible course of action?


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

When you deal with AIB,you will have to write 2 letters.One to your branch for the overdraft and the loan,and one to the credit card department.
Please put in the letter that you wish all communications to be written,either email or post,and then don't answer the phone.


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## RonaOha (19 Oct 2017)

What is the address for the Credit Card department?

Good point in relation to asking communication via email or post.


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

AIB Card Issuing, PO Box 708, Sandyford, Dublin 18.


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## vandriver (19 Oct 2017)

If they send you a SFS to fill in,put down outgoings to match or exceed your income.Dont put down what your are currently spending!


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## RonaOha (20 Oct 2017)

Cheers - I already have one done out by the National Debtline who emailed it to me after the phone and discussing with them, but I guess I may need to do one in AIB's own format?


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## vandriver (20 Oct 2017)

RonaOha said:


> Cheers - I already have one done out by the National Debtline who emailed it to me after the phone and discussing with them, but I guess I may need to do one in AIB's own format?


Do your outgoings match your income on this form?(with no debt payments)


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## RonaOha (20 Oct 2017)

about £6 above.


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## RonaOha (23 Oct 2017)

Put the letters in the post today, we'll see what happens.

Asked them for 14 days to get everything in order then I'll send them budget sheets as I need to get a few things together.


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## RonaOha (27 Oct 2017)

AIB have got my letter and only wanting to discuss this via phone rather than via written medium, I've told then I'm not willing to do that.

Advice?


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## vandriver (27 Oct 2017)

That's so they can pressurise you into agreeing to an unrealistic repayment.(or in your current situation, any repayments),with no come back.
You need a written record of everything.So just refuse to deal any other way.
If it's a problem with postal delay,you can always give an email address.


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## RonaOha (27 Oct 2017)

Cheers.

I will mail them and say to them it's via post or I will offer the alternative of email but will not be dealing with them under any circumstance via telephone as I require everything in writing and that is not up for negotiation.

The only letter I sent them so far was a notification I will not be making payments in November onwards and a request to stop charges and interest and give me 14 days to do up a personal financial statement and send them this and demonstrate my income and outgoings

Guess there will be no more movement on this until Tuesday now.


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## RonaOha (2 Nov 2017)

Bank have rejected my request to suspend charges and interest on my accounts and said that I am required to meet the original terms of the agreement that I have took out as I am obliged to do so.

Also they have said they will not be communicating with me via letter and the only method to discuss arrangements will be via phone and they are not budging from that and they want to take my household budget over the phone using their own values and guidelines rather than the ones that I supply them which they have not got yet.

They say the team who deals with this kind of thing only deals with customers over the phone so this cannot progress without them and I am therefore required to call them at my own expense. 

Unfortunately it seems that the bank are not willing to work with me on this.


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## RonaOha (2 Nov 2017)

Any advice?


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## Easeler (2 Nov 2017)

First suggestion is get a job, plenty jobs here in ireland again,building sites looking for Labourers not much experience required just put the head down and work hard, if you don't fancy that just go  bankrupt and start again your 10 grand is not going to tip the scales at thist stage.


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## RonaOha (3 Nov 2017)

Returning to Ireland right now is not an option unfortunately, at least for the moment. 

'Problem with going bankrupt is it'll destroy my credit rating for the next six years and occasionally in my roles I've had to have a credit check prior to applying.


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## vandriver (3 Nov 2017)

If you are looking for a British job,then your UK credit rating is fine.
Honestly (from experience) AIB are not good to deal with.They are intransigent and unwilling to do a deal of any kind.
I kind of expected a response like you just got.
If you never answer the phone,because AIBs number is blocked,for example,then they would have to deal with you by letter.
Eventually(up to a year) they would appoint BCW ,Stubbs or one of the other agencies .They will then write to you .Many times.They will ring you,if their numbers aren't blocked.
If you don't engage at all,the debt collection agency will lose interest.Possibly a second or third agency will be appointed.
They will all threaten court.But that's all it is.Empty threats.There is no percentage whatsoever in taking someone who is penniless to court.
They might then (in about 2 to 3 years) offer a settlement of 50%.
Please note that if you accept,you reset the clock on the six years enforceability of the debt .The debt stays on your ICB record for 5 years after you have cleared the debt,or its written off .
So,say in 3 years,you accept a 50% settlement of your debt payable over 3 years,then your ICB won't be clear until 2028 .
Unfortunately trying to do the right thing has more disadvantages than advantages.
It is up to you how to proceed,but keep some of the above points in mind.


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## RonaOha (29 Nov 2017)

AIB rejected my token offer.

They still want at least €80 a month for 12 months and €280 a month after that which is the only deal that they are willing to do. They won't suspend interest, payments or other charges.

They still also want to charge currency conversion fees on incoming payments and my UK bank will charge £9.50 on outgoing payments so the total cost is going to be effectively over €100 a month.

That's on an income of £73.10 a week.


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## RonaOha (29 Nov 2017)

Any advice where to go next? I've already written back to them and told them that essentially the whole thing can go to court and they'd be wasting their time as any judge would see that I do not have the means to pay the sums that they are asking for


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## TLO (30 Nov 2017)

At this stage three possibilities come to mind:

1) Do nothing and ignore all contact from AIB.
2) Apply for your own bankruptcy in the UK.
3) Try to get a job which leaves you enough left over to make payments.


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## RonaOha (30 Nov 2017)

Yes - I will await their further response since I sent them some more materials and also a letter from the debt charity that states how much they believe I can pay based on their opinion.

The debt charity also told me that if they still refuse a reasonable sum that I should inform them that I will in that case choose to go down the bankruptcy or Debt Relief Order route to see if that focuses the minds of AIB on the basis that they may well get nothing if I go down that route.


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## RonaOha (6 Dec 2017)

AIB have now stated they will be sending me a formal letter and not deal with me via email going forward. This is the same AIB that spent several weeks saying that they could not deal with me via letter under any circumstance. 

I have now missed my first Credit Card repayment and first loan repayment but my current account is still within the overdraft limit (just) so I guess that this has made them suddenly discover the ability to write letters. 



TLO said:


> At this stage three possibilities come to mind:
> 
> 1) Do nothing and ignore all contact from AIB.
> 2) Apply for your own bankruptcy in the UK.
> 3) Try to get a job which leaves you enough left over to make payments.



1) Realistically not an option I want to take. 
2) I aim to go down the Debt Relief Order route if possible, I've already told AIB this means they will most likely have to write the debt off.
3) My proposal to AIB was to pay a token amount until I gain employment then up payments. This offer was refused. 

Any further advice for me?


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## RonaOha (9 Dec 2017)

They have made me a slightly better offer than the last original one of €81 a month for 12 months and €280 for 4 years.

Their latest offer is €80 a month for 12 months and then €200 a month over 6 years.

Still not affordable on the basis that the first 12 months payments are too high but the higher payments should be affordable on the basis I gain employment.

They've now said their next actions are to issue a 60 day pre-demand letter, what does this mean?

They have refused to stop interests and charges continually to this point.


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## RonaOha (15 Dec 2017)

Can I have some assistance with this?

The bank are now saying they will expire my overdraft from 8th February 2018 and start to charge me a much higher rate on my overdraft.

Meanwhile they are refusing to really budge other than €80 a month for 12 months and €200 a month over 6 years, which I cannot afford the €80 a month payment for 12 months right now.

What do I do? I'm at wits end here.


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## vandriver (15 Dec 2017)

Nothing.
It's all you can do.
Let them try and terrify you,because that's all they can do in your case.
Get on with your life.


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## RonaOha (15 Dec 2017)

I've told them I cannot commit to €80 a month for 12 months in good faith and that they appear to have totally no idea of the cost of living in the UK in a fairly rural location and that they are not being reasonable. 

I made them a final offer of £11 per month since I can change my UK bank account to another one which has no charges on outgoing international payments which would allow me to avoid paying this charge on any payment to AIB.

I pretty much told them that we can:
A) come to a settlement on what I can actually afford to pay.
B) we can go to court and the judge won't give them anymore and they can pay all the expenses involved with that.
C) I can get a DRO or bankruptcy and they get nothing. 

Since they're still adding charges on, interest and are going to hit me with higher surcharge interest it's looking like C will be very likely.


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## RonaOha2 (5 Jul 2019)

Hi All, 

After 18 months I'm back agian. 

So after eventually agreeing a deal with AIB and paying them at first £56 a month for 4 months and more recently £92 a month for the last 9 months, out of the blue AIB have today asked me for a statement of financial means o they are threatening to send me to a debt collection agency within 14 days.

Helpfully they've included a statement of needs form which is in tiny print, all in Euro and clearly based on Irish standards, I've asked them for a UK form, but they say they are not a UK bank, despite the fact they provided me one almost 2 years ago when this whole debacle started.

I can probably pay them another £15 per month now, so will send them a statement of means that will show that (already worked it out), but is it common that they are now going to do this at least once if not twice a year? If so what if I refused? Would they actually send me to a debt collector if I continue paying the previously agreed  amount?

When I made an agreement with AIB, they never said it would be subject to review. I am now working but my pay is not hugely over minimum wage, so I really don't have a lot of extra income to give to AIB.

Ronan


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## vandriver (6 Jul 2019)

What do you still owe and how much are you paying back?
Was the overdraft called in?
How's the credit card?


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## RonaOha2 (7 Jul 2019)

Paying £92 a month at the moment, although my UK bank take £10 of that as a transfer fee each time I pay AIB. They removed the overdraft from the account but would only agree payments on the basis interest would still accrue but at standard rate.

They would only discuss suspending interest and combining the accounts if I agreed to pay over £225 a month which is never going to happen on barely above minimum wage, but I acknowledge I would probably be able to increase payments to £105 - £110 which will most likely be my proposal to AIB.

There's about 9k left on there right now, the prospects of paying that back in the short to medium term I would say are pretty slim, but I'd like to avoid going bankrupt so I don't trash my UK Credit rating which is in good shape.

Would they really try and get an agency to take action against me on the basis that the payment I'm making to them which we previously agreed is not enough? I'd have thought that they'd be happy to b e getting anything?


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