# €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing out?



## Amazon (12 Dec 2008)

Ok so this could be a stupid question, but please bear with me...

I have just started a new-part time job and will be paid on the 28th of every month. My employer told me that to keep things simple, I will be paid a flat rate every month of €600. (The job pays €10 an hour and I do 15 hours a week.)

Surely this means that I am losing out?

November for example was a five-week month, but I still only got €600.

Sorry again if it's a dumb question, but maths was never my strong point...

Unfortunately there was no agreement put in place before I started work, right now I'd be classed as "casual" because I don't have a contract as yet... I am paid by the hour. They are waiting to see how their end of year finances are looking first.

I do feel swizzled!


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## Caveat (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

Based on your info:

€10 ph x 15 (week) x 52 (weeks in a year) = €7800

€7800/12 (months) = €650 pm

So I would say your employer is doing a bit more than "keeping things simple"


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## Thrifty1 (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

You earn €150 a week x 52 = €7,800 a year / 12 months = €650 a month.
Thats what you should be getting paid unless ive made an error.

Crossed posts with caveat.


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## aetius (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

OP, the above answers fail to take account of PAYE - you also don't mention your tax-credits. I don't know your past history for 2008, but I think you could be doing very very well.

Get your contract in writing and ensure that you're paid €600 NET, not GROSS. Employer's must deduct PAYE. (Is this an undercounter job - pay etc!? The employer may not simply want to account for PRSI/PAYE etc) 

Depending on whether your'e Single or Married etc means the difference between doing very well here, or very very well !!!!


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## Caveat (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

Of course, never even considered that.


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## Purple (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



aetius said:


> OP, the above answers fail to take account of PAYE - you also don't mention your tax-credits. I don't know your past history for 2008, but I think you could be doing very very well.
> 
> Get your contract in writing and ensure that you're paid €600 NET, not GROSS. Employer's must deduct PAYE. (Is this an undercounter job - pay etc!? The employer may not simply want to account for PRSI/PAYE etc)
> 
> Depending on whether your'e Single or Married etc means the difference between doing very well here, or very very well !!!!




OP, Does your pay slip show the deductions (even “keeping things simple” you need a pay slip on order to “keep things legal”)


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## MentalNote (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



			
				aetius said:
			
		

> Get your contract in writing and ensure that you're paid €600 NET, not GROSS.



I don't get this point. Why would the employer give a NET figure? Who gets told what they are paid in NET figures?

The OP isn't being paid enough to pay PAYE anyway so there should only be PRSI deductions as long as they get a tax credit certificate sorted - I am making the assumption this is the only source of income for the OP.....at my peril.



> You earn €150 a week x 52 = €7,800 a year / 12 months = €650 a month.
> Thats what you should be getting paid unless ive made an error.



That doesn't take account of holidays though. I would assume that some holidays would be taken over the course of a year. The OP is entitled to:



> 8% of the hours worked in a leave year subject to a
> maximum of 4 working weeks.



That means that the OP is entitled 1.2 hours off for every week he/she works (a working week being 15hrs). The maximum time off in one leave year is 60 hours or 4 working weeks. 

€150 * *48* = €7200 /12 = *€600*

(Note: the op is only entitled to 57.6 hrs holidays after working for 48 weeks so that would be in their favour)

So in summary it would seem to me that €600 is the correct GROSS monthly wage, if the OP is paid that regardless of having taken holidays during that month. I'd check with your employer that this is the case OP.

Of course if you are not allowed take time off then this is all bunkum and you are being swizzled


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## Amazon (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

Thanks everyone, with my feeble brain, I am more confused than ever!

Yup, this is my only source of income and it is "over the counter" - I am paying PRSI but not PAYE as I am not earning enough to be taxed.

Oh, and I am entitled to take holidays - 8% of hours worked.

Edited to add: I just got this email back from my employer:

On your pay.  You will receive the same amount for your 2 days a week each month. ie.  we do not process weekly pay amounts.  This keeps your pay an average over your 12 months not the number of weeks in each month.

That is our standard for all employees and keeps the payroll as normal from month to month as is possible.


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## Towger (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



MentalNote said:


> I don't get this point. Why would the employer give a NET figure? Who gets told what they are paid in NET figures?


 
Builders and hauliers etc. Many a small/startup company has gone bust by paying a net wage. Then going to the accountant at the end of the year, to find out that employees were on emergency tax or pre individualisation transferred all their allowances to their spouse etc.


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## Caveat (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



jaybird said:


> Isn't that paid leave though, the 8%, so why would it be subtracted?


 
Was thinking that too.


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## MentalNote (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



Amazon said:


> Thanks everyone, with my feeble brain, I am more confused than ever!
> 
> Yup, this is my only source of income and it is "over the counter" - I am paying PRSI but not PAYE as I am not earning enough to be taxed.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't get hung up on the 4 and 5 week month thing. This is normal if you get paid monthly. You need to check your figures over the course of a year as shown in the examples above.  

The key point is that if they are averaging your wage over 12 months as €600 then you should be paid this sum even if you take days off. You should be entitled to about 7.5 days off in a year.

However if they dock your wages for days off then they should be paying you €650 per month (or €650 minus €75 for every day off).



			
				jaybird said:
			
		

> Isn't that paid leave though, the 8%, so why would it be subtracted?



Part timers don't usually get paid leave. However because this company is averaging over the months it makes it look like they are giving paid leave, but its not really.



			
				Towger said:
			
		

> Builders and hauliers etc. Many a small/startup company has gone bust by paying a net wage. Then going to the accountant at the end of the year, to find out that employees were on emergency tax or pre individualisation transferred all their allowances to their spouse etc.



Don't make no sense I tells ya!


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## WaterSprite (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



MentalNote said:


> Part timers don't usually get paid leave. However because this company is averaging over the months it makes it look like they are giving paid leave, but its not really.


 
Part-time workers are entitled to paid leave on a pro-rata basis - usually 8% of hours worked, as others have mentioned. 

Sprite


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## Black Sheep (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*

And why are you paying PRSI? as you seem to be below the required level. Hopefully your employer is paying on your behalf


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## ajapale (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing o*

Hi Amazon,

Ive changed the title somewhat to more fully reflect the question. Let me know if this is ok with you.

Try to avoid emotive terms such as "rip off" or "swindle" in your posts.

aj
Moderator


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## Amazon (12 Dec 2008)

*Re: €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing o*

Of course, AJ

I just couldn't get my question into thread title quite as succintly as yourself!

In my last job, we were paid for exactly the hours worked up to thte 28th of each month. So sometimes you'd have a four week month, sometimes, a five week month.

I have just been given a third day of work with this company so in 2009 I will be working a three day week - i.e. 21.5hrs per week or twelve days a month - and earning €215 a week or €860 a month.

The maths go like this:

By my employer's method of reckoning, I will be paid €860 twelve times from January, giving a total annual income of €10,320.

By own reckoning, I will actually work 153 days in 2009. So my gross income should actually be €11,475.

€10,320 divided by 153 days worked gives an hourly rate of pay of €9.00 and not €10.00, as was agreed.


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## Purple (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing o*



Amazon said:


> Of course, AJ
> 
> I just couldn't get my question into thread title quite as succintly as yourself!
> 
> ...


 Have you spoken you your employer about this and asked for a clarification?
Do you get a pay slip showing hours worked, Gross pay, deductions and net pay?


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## Towger (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing o*

Generaly speeking, if you are 'Monthly Paid' you are 'Salary Paid'. If you are 'Salary Paid' you get the same salary no matter how many days or weeks are in the month or if you go on holidays etc. Being on a hourly/daly/weekly rate but being paid monthly is unusual, but some Americal multinationls (Apple is one) in Ireland operate on a 'week' based 'month'!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Towger*
> _Builders and hauliers etc. Many a small/startup company has gone bust by paying a net wage. Then going to the accountant at the end of the year, to find out that employees were on emergency tax or pre individualisation transferred all their allowances to their spouse etc._
> 
> Don't make no sense I tells ya!


 
Sorry about that...

For example: An employer says to an employee "I will pay you €800 into your hands each week." €800 with a single person’s tax allowances equates to about €1,097 Gross per week. But through negligence or wilful manipulation of tax allowances the 'Gross' to pay €800 Net can up to to €1,500 per week. At the end of the year the tax compliant employer gives his shoe boxes of paperwork to his accountant, who inturn works out the gross pay. The employer gets hit for the excess taxes (and may go bust) and the employee(s) get a nice tax refund a few months later from Revenue.


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## Amazon (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: €10/hr and I do 15 hrs/week - paid €600/mth "to keep things simple" am I losing o*

In my last job, we were paid by the hour, but received a monthly paycheque.


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## MentalNote (15 Dec 2008)

*Re: Am I Being Swindled?*



jaybird said:


> Part time workers are entitled to the same level of paid leave as full time workers are. Any company that does not pay annual leave is breaking the law. All workers are entitled to 8% of their hours worked as paid annual leave.
> [broken link removed]



He is entitled to comparable conditions to full time employees. The rate of pay is probably the same in that it reflects a rate for actual hours worked.

He will still get his €860 per month regardless of having taken time off, that is different to being paid the €10 per hour for 7.5 hours on his days off.

In other words the €10 per hour is the rate he is paid for hours WORKED.



			
				Amazon said:
			
		

> By own reckoning, I will actually work 153 days in 2009.



So you reckon you will work 51 weeks in 2009 and take no days off? Inspite of the fact you will be entitled to 8% of those days off? Your employer is supposed to ensure you take your holidays as you are legally entitled to do.

When you take your (mandatory) two week holiday in 2009 will you still feel swindled that you get paid €860 for having worked only half the normal hours?


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