# Hibernian European Commercial Property Fund



## Yellow Belly (24 Jul 2007)

Spoke to a broker re the above fund, which sounds like a reasonably good investment.

Has anybody looked at this fund? Any opinions? Are there any other property based funds/syndicates that appear attractive to anybody?

I have a lump sum of €400,000 to invest, and am not convinced by the equity markets at the moment. 

All experiences & information would be gratefully received.


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## gonk (24 Jul 2007)

I know nothing about this particular fund, but I would just say €400k is a lot of eggs to have in one basket.

Another asset class you might consider is commodities. A lot of commentators are very bullish for commodities at present and at any rate, they would give you useful diversification from equities and property.

I've an investment in the JP Morgan Global Natural Resources fund and it has been doing very well lately, but there are others too. 



Don't be put off by the 5% initial charges - you should have no problem negotiating that downwards with your broker/adviser.


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## PMU (24 Jul 2007)

You can get a higher initial allocation if you go through a discount broker; there are charges if you take money out in the first five years; you can’t add to your policy so if you want to add additional funds you must take out a new policy.   (If you are thinking of plonking your total 400g with Hibernian, get a quote from them first on charges and then go to a discount broker to see if they can beat it.)
  As you have loads of dosh to invest you might consider diversifying in other countries.  Hibernian have other property funds, as have others.  (Note that Hibernian’s UK property fund is decreasing in value (as are UK property company stocks at present and as is the euro vs sterling, so you might want to wait a bit on the UK front). Irish Life has a fund that is spread over IE, UK and EU-mainland properties, but you’ld need to check out the charges.  Irish Life also have a fund that invests in an office block in La Defence in Paris, and Friends First have a couple of short term funds on EU-mainland residential property (min investment 75 grand), and the Corinthian fund that is developing the Superquinn supermarket sites. A couple of companies (e.g. Eagle Star, Canada Life) are also flogging property funds but these are really a re-sell on of a property ETF, and not investments in bricks and mortar.


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## Yellow Belly (24 Jul 2007)

Discount broker? The broker I have been dealing with is an Authorised Advisor- is this the same thing?

I have been haunted by bank officials but am slow to take their advice as I feel they are trying to "sell" me something rather than offer advice.

My broker has offered an "initial allocation" of 101%- is this good?

Thanks for all replies to date.


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## South (24 Jul 2007)

Some discount brokers are authorised advisors, some aren't.

Is the broker charging a fee/taking commission/doing this out of the goodness of his/her heart?

Is there a bid/offer spread on the contract and, if so, will you be buying at the offer price?


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## Yellow Belly (24 Jul 2007)

No bid offer spread that I am aware of- broker has told me about the exit penalties in the first 5 years.

He is being paid by commission from Hibernian- offered my fee based advice (this cost was equal to the commission which he would receive from the companies). If I am getting a good deal with regard to allocation rates, is not the adviser entitled to the same fee or commission? Or am I being naive?

I have a distrust of anyone offering a very low cost service, as there is nothing for nothing in this world. Good tax advice is quite expensive (but has saved me fortunes) surely good investment advice is likewise?


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## South (24 Jul 2007)

I would expect with a €400k fund you would be able to get about 103% to 104% allocation rate, no bid/offer...there would be an early exit penalty though.

Agreed, generally you get what you pay for.


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## PMU (24 Jul 2007)

If your broker is offering you 101% I’d drop him; I got a 102% allocation on a much smaller investment, so for 400g you should get a much much better deal.  And remember your broker will be creaming it in trailing commissions. There is a bid/spread offer and you can check this on the Hibernian Investment Managers web site; but the last time I checked the bid/spread was the same for all the property funds except for the UK one.


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## jcb (25 Jul 2007)

J P Morgan funds don"t appear to be sold by many brokers,so how can I access them?


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## South (25 Jul 2007)

Rabodirect.


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

But bear in mind that _Rabo _normally charge 0.75% on entry, 0.75% again on exit and an annual managment fee of somewhere between 0.7% and 2.0% (if I recall correctly). You can get more competitive charges elsewhere albeit not necessarily on the precise funds that _Rabo _offer and their online service looks pretty easy to use so you are effectively paying for this too.


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## Money01 (5 Dec 2007)

I am a completing a project in in college at the moment. Does anyone know where i can get a day by day breakdown of the hibernian european property fund form 29th september - 21st November. I have tryed the company website by it only gives a monthly breakdown


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## F. Kruger (6 Dec 2007)

Money01 said:


> ... a day by day breakdown of the hibernian european property fund form 29th september - 21st November.


 
Hi Money01,

A day to day breakdown of what? The price of the units?


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## Money01 (6 Dec 2007)

Hi F. Kruger,

Thankd for the reply. Looking for the price of the fund?


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## ClubMan (6 Dec 2007)

[broken link removed]?
[broken link removed]


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## Freddie (6 Dec 2007)

deleted


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## Another John (6 Dec 2007)

Read the thread on the Hibernian Spectrum Bond "going through the floor".


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## F. Kruger (6 Dec 2007)

Money01,

If you PM me with your e-mail address I can send you the prices for each day on an excel speadsheet for the days specified.


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## Dave Vanian (6 Dec 2007)

Another John said:


> Read the thread on the Hibernian Spectrum Bond "going through the floor".


 
What relevance is that to this question?


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## Another John (6 Dec 2007)

Is giving someone a heads-up on what can happen in property funds that are the flavour of the month of relevance?

The fact that property, by its nature is an illiquid investment should be highlighted and understood especially if one is investing €400K.

The fact that Hibernian was strongly promoting the geared U.K. property fund a year ago( it's got a 4% rental yield, gearing effect, etc etc.). Hibernian and others are now promoting European property.

These funds are great while they are taking in money, when the moneyflow reverses, they have problems.Its like a ponzi scheme

In the early/mid '90s a number of Irish Institutions enforced redemption clauses (six month delay and reduced value) on their property funds and it is likely that they will again if the U.K. commercial property markets falls further.


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