# appealing social welfare



## triciamonty (23 Apr 2009)

anybody here ever appeal welfare decision to the appeals office ? how did you get on ?


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

I did many years ago. 

I won. The local SW inspector was very sore for a long time afterwards. 

What sort of decision are you appealing?


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## Bronte (28 Apr 2009)

I appealed a long time ago and won, as far as I remember it meant I got back payments and it was just a week before I was heading to the US to work so it was great to get at the time.  The appeal itself was a hearing with an appeals officer in a different place to the normal dole office and I got a fair hearing but it took a few weeks for the decision so I had to rely on family members for income and lived on spaghetti hoops.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

bond-007 said:


> I did many years ago.
> 
> I won. The local SW inspector was very sore for a long time afterwards.
> 
> What sort of decision are you appealing?


 means test officer gave most of the details i gave her in a incorrect manner to deciding officer,so was not allowed J.A.i happen to get through to the deciding officer after many calls.when i pointed the inaccurate info she was surprised to say the least.she asked me to send in the info directly to her,and i did.thats the last contact i had with her.i sent away same info to the appeals office just to be sure. ...........my wife income was taken down wrong,i also unregistered as self employed last october to take up direct employment with a company in mid november.this fell through so after no luck getting work i signed on in december 12.my wife take home is 350 p.w .  less now after budget.  also my income this year was assessed at  something ridicolous even though im not self employed any longer. i showed the deregistration letter at means test also.we have 1 home [mortgage 740 p.m ]  1 car now.   no kids yet.........commuinity welfare officer said ENTITLED to nothing. i was talking to a woman in the queue at c.w.o clinic and later in aldi she got 3500 to rig out  a house with curtains ,washing machine,baby stuff..etc  cant understand how this  welfare system works


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## Caveat (28 Apr 2009)

triciamonty said:


> i .my wife take home is 350 p.w . less now after budget.


 
PW?  Is it not per month?


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

triciamonty said:


> means test officer gave most of the details i gave her in a incorrect manner to deciding officer,so was not allowed J.A.i happen to get through to the deciding officer after many calls.when i pointed the inaccurate info she was surprised to say the least.she asked me to send in the info directly to her,and i did.thats the last contact i had with her.i sent away same info to the appeals office just to be sure. ...........my wife income was taken down wrong,i also unregistered as self employed last october to take up direct employment with a company in mid november.this fell through so after no luck getting work i signed on in december 12.my wife take home is 350 p.w .  less now after budget.  also my income this year was assessed at  something ridicolous even though im not self employed any longer. i showed the deregistration letter at means test also.we have 1 home [mortgage 740 p.m ]  1 car now.   no kids yet.........commuinity welfare officer said ENTITLED to nothing. i was talking to a woman in the queue at c.w.o clinic and later in aldi she got 3500 to rig out  a house with curtains ,washing machine,baby stuff..etc  cant understand how this  welfare system works


Can you please use proper punctuation? Your post is very hard to read.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

p.w = per week


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## Welfarite (28 Apr 2009)

If the decision waas made by the Deciding Officer based on wrong information, then a revised decision will proabbaly be made by the same DO, circumventing the need for appeal. This would be best because the revised decision can be appealed again if you are not happy with it, whereas the appeals decison can't. 
Therem should be little delay in a revised decision (provided all info is now supplied and amended) as it's done in Local Office. Best to keep in touch with DO and ask for REVISED decision on the basis of original decision based on wrong info.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

sorry for  the incorrect punctuation .if you can make sense of what i typed what would your opinion be on it ?............thanks


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## Caveat (28 Apr 2009)

triciamonty said:


> p.w = per week


 
Well if the _reduction_ in your wife's income is €350 pw, it sounds like she is on good money in the first place which is maybe why you are not entitled to anything?


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

thanks for reply welfarite.


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

CWO's seem to have a very blinkered view at times. If a spouse is working at all regardless of income (i.e. it could be a part time job paying €100 a week) you will get nothing from a CWO. It is ironically often better for someone to stop working and they would receive more from a CWO that way.


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## Black Sheep (28 Apr 2009)

Caveat
I think the OP means "wife's takes home pay was 350 per week and is now less than that since the Budget". 
Am I reading this wrong


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## Caveat (28 Apr 2009)

Black Sheep said:


> Caveat
> I think the OP means "wife's takes home pay was 350 per week and is now less than that since the Budget".
> Am I reading this wrong


 
Of course. Must be. Apologies.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

bond-007 said:


> CWO's seem to have a very blinkered view at times. If a spouse is working at all regardless of income (i.e. it could be a part time job paying €100 a week) you will get nothing from a CWO. It is ironically often better for someone to stop working and they would receive more from a CWO that way.


 i agree with you. it would seem that to work at all you are crucified but make a career of living on welfare and you are as well off if not better off.


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

That is certainly the case.


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## gipimann (28 Apr 2009)

bond-007 said:


> CWO's seem to have a very blinkered view at times. If a spouse is working at all regardless of income (i.e. it could be a part time job paying €100 a week) you will get nothing from a CWO. It is ironically often better for someone to stop working and they would receive more from a CWO that way.


 
Not true.  If a person's spouse/partner works more than 29 hours per week, that person will not qualify for SWA, regardless of the total household income. 
However, if as in your example, partner works part-time earning €100 per week, then the application can be made for SWA and entitlement is based on a means-test of the household income.

These rules are set out in legislation and regulations.


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

Someone should tell some of CWOs that.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

in fact if  we had not got married my wife could claim that single parent thing,get council house with rent paid for by h.s.e and probably get money to fit out the house from c.w.o. meanwhile i could move in when everything is done .wouldnt we have cushy life. oh i forgot, my wife could go back to work while baby is minded and paid for by h.s.e.  i might be able  to get some cash in hand whilst claiming dole.boy oh boy what a life we could have. but id imagine this would never happen in real life........would it?


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## lightswitch (28 Apr 2009)

Oh it would Tricia, but only in the minds of complete fantatists.


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## triciamonty (28 Apr 2009)

Caveat said:


> Well if the _reduction_ in your wife's income is €350 pw, it sounds like she is on good money in the first place which is maybe why you are not entitled to anything?


 wife take home pay is 350 per week


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## bond-007 (28 Apr 2009)

And that will disqualify you for SWA.


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## triciamonty (8 May 2009)

means test officer called again about revising the application.she went through everything and everything is now clarified for the deciding officer . after paperwork was all done we had a chat about the welfare system.  she said it was a disgrace the way the system is laid out.  people becoming unemployed be they employees  or self -employed are finding it very frustating dealing with the welfare system..its better laid out for people who would rather abuse the system.  i.e some people who never worked and have better knowledge of the system and how to manipulate it to their advantage. we only spoke in general ,she said there is a lot of frustration ,anger,within the social welfare dealing with people who are finding it tough at the moment and not being able to do more for them


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## PeppaPig (12 May 2009)

triciamonty said:


> *in fact if  we had not got married my wife could claim that single parent thing*,get council house with rent paid for by h.s.e and probably get money to fit out the house from c.w.o. meanwhile i could move in when everything is done .wouldnt we have cushy life. oh i forgot, my wife could go back to work while baby is minded and paid for by h.s.e.  i might be able  to get some cash in hand whilst claiming dole.boy oh boy what a life we could have. but id imagine this would never happen in real life........would it?



I thought you had no kids 

Sorry to disappoint you but you wouldn't just "get" a council house. The lists are years and years long, single parent or not. 
As for getting money to fit the house out - I'll tell you now, the most you will get out of the CWO to fit a house out will be about 900euro's, which pretty much covers about three decent mattresses for beds and a chest of drawers. I think your lady in Aldi might have been stretching the truth just a little, otherwise there are extremely frivolous CWO's in your neck of the woods!!


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## bond-007 (12 May 2009)

> there are extremely frivolous CWO's in your neck of the woods!!


They do exist. 

As for years waiting for a house, not if you know the right people and have the correct party affiliations. 
The whole system is corrupt.


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## PyritePete (27 Nov 2009)

hi all, my friend has worked for 15 years here and was made "redundant" from her job. Applied for SW along with her partner (who since found work) and was refused and now is appealing. Her previous employer said she wasn't available for full time work - this is a load of bull. Wrote to Deciding officer to put matters straight. Filled out forms stating jobs she applied for, been onto agencies seeking work etc. Got letter from Appeals office saying an oral hearing may be heard and that they would be in contact again. Friend has to sign on monthly in local SW office...is this the normal procedure ? What else can be done ?

Any help/comments appreciated


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## Bronte (27 Nov 2009)

If someone has worked for 15 years they will have stamps (PRSI payments) which makes them automatically entitled to SW.  This has nothing to do with means or with her partner.  But one of the conditions is that you don't give up work voluntarily, if you do you will be penalised for a few weeks.  Another condition is that you are seeking work.  

Did she give up the job?  Why would the employer make a false allegation to SW?

It is normal to sign on.


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## PyritePete (27 Nov 2009)

Hi Bronte, thanks for reply. no she didn't give up work & is seeking work. SW officer contacted former employer and they told SW officer that she was only willing to work hours close to her own (35 hours a week minus lunch etc) and SW officer has since said that she is not willing to work full time


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## Caveat (27 Nov 2009)

Whole thing sounds a bit odd.

Worst case scenario, even if she did voluntarily give up work (assuming there was no serious misconduct) is that she would have to to wait 9 weeks max.

If there has been some sort of friction with previous employer the SW should be advised of it as it may help the case.

When you say "made redundant" what are you getting at?

Maybe try citizens advice (or whatever they're called these days) as I'm not sure what constitutes 'full time'. For me it is nominally 39 hrs - I've a feeling that less than 37 may be regarded as 'not full time' and if so, the SW officer may have a point in some way.  I'm not sure.


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## PyritePete (28 Nov 2009)

I agree that its a bit odd. Letter sent to SW officer in July, so she is still waiting. Her P45 and holiday pay etc arrived one day in the post after parental leave expired. I suppose the option would be to approach her local TD...


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## Black Sheep (2 Dec 2009)

As suggested above perhaps Citizens Information may be able to help.

Not sure what local TD can do about it


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## bond-007 (2 Dec 2009)

Local TD can find out what exactly is happening. They do have their uses.

Citizens Information would be useless in this situation.


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## Black Sheep (2 Dec 2009)

It depends on their will to help in either situation


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## fababby (4 Dec 2009)

My information is that most Citizen Information Services appeal lots of payments on behalf of claimants or assist the claimant to do so.  Would at least have similar ability to ask the question regarding status of claim or appeal as the secretary to a TD would


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## PyritePete (7 Dec 2009)

Letter arrived friday, saying that friend has to attend an oral hearing. What advice could I give her ? WHat happens next ?


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## Welfarite (7 Dec 2009)

Just reading this thread so forgive late advice:
It is normal practice to contact employer for written reason peron left employment. Readig between the lines, the emplyer must have stated that person was laid noff because they only wanted part-time work. Therefore, they were disallowed on that basis but other evidence must have been present of this. SW would not disallow on employer's statement alone. All is not been told. methinks. 
Also, it is a full disallownce, not 9 weeks as another poster says. 
Best thing is to go to appeal with evidence of efforts to get full-time work and ready to state why exactly she left employemnt/was laid off. She van bring somebody with her to support her, so OP might want to do that.


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## PyritePete (8 Dec 2009)

when I say friend was made redundant, she never resigned from her job, had agreed parental leave which the company reneged on and then asked her to hand in her notice. 

Shortly after she heard there were redundancies at her job, so not only did she her job/benefits etc she could have lost out on a redundancy payment. 

She is also wondering is she wins her appeal will SW have to backdate her monies ? DO they go by her P45 ?

She has a copy of the SW form that she filled out & returned months ago stating the companies/jobs she applied for and the outcome, other jobs she applied for since this and the letter sent to SW stating why she lost her job in bizarre circumstances.


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## PyritePete (4 Jan 2010)

the oral hearing is in the SW office in D'Olier St ? Is this usual ? Has anyone experience of this oral hearing and what was it like ? Any help appreciated...


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## gipimann (4 Jan 2010)

D'olier St is the location of the SW Chief Appeals Office so it would be quite normal for an oral hearing to take place there.


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