# Class action against Equitable Life



## lassai1 (19 Jul 2002)

Is there anyone taking a class action against Equitable Life, in Ireland?


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## ClubMan (19 Jul 2002)

If I recall correctly a UK (?) firm of solicitors were in Dublin a few months ago to see what interest there might be but I haven't heard anything recently.


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## lassai1 (19 Jul 2002)

thanks clubman. I don't suppose that you can remember their name?


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## ClubMan (19 Jul 2002)

I'm afraid not. As far as I remember there was a snippet about it in the Irish Times a few months back. Perhaps the [broken link removed] could help you?


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## endowed (20 Jul 2002)

Hi ClubMan,

[broken link removed] from the SBP might be what you were thinking of.  

According to the article, London-based law firm <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_ Class Law_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> were over in Ireland on May 28 last when they met about 12 Irish EL policyholders. I am assuming that  this  is their website.


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## ClubMan (22 Jul 2002)

That must be the crowd all right. Thanks endowed!


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## Mithrandir (23 Jul 2002)

*Class Action - in the Irish High Courts.*

At a tentative stage i'm involved in discussions with an Irish Class action specialist at the behest of an Equitable life policyholder, at the centre of inviting over the UK firm. The avenue under exploration is thew degree to which it can be argued that the Irish policyholders should have been differentiated. 

if any EL policyholders would like to share views, or partake at this early point, please post. Mithrandir


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## Unregistered (23 Jul 2002)

*Not a classy action*

Gas, isn't it ? Now this "where's there's blame there's a claim" attitude is gone from whiplash claims, and lads sueing the council for falling off toilet seats to gettin a few grand out of bankrupt Life Assurers.

And do you know who's going to end up paying for all this compo ? The other EL policy holders, that's who !!

This is just thieving ?


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## Mithrandir (24 Jul 2002)

*EL*

The issue is whether EL in Ireland, where policies were issued under Irish law, acted correctly in attacking policies issued here to bail out a problem that the Society had with historic British policies. The firm appeared to engage in marketing the irish operation as a separate with profit fund, reinforced by the differentiation initially in MVA treatment.

The sums involved are not small, and a number of investors had several hundred thousands invested each. some invested on a geared basis!


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## Dogbert (24 Jul 2002)

*Really, Mith!!!*

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>*Quote:*<hr> some invested on a geared basis!<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

More fools them !!!


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## lassai1 (12 Dec 2002)

are there any further developements in a potential class action in view of the recent letter from Equitable to Irish Annutants, informing them of an impending reduction of 12% in their pension levels?


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## MOB (12 Dec 2002)

*"Specialists"*

"At a tentative stage i'm involved in discussions with an Irish Class action specialist"

If any lawyer in Ireland claims to be a class action specialist, my advice is to find another lawyer.   Historically, there is not been a sufficiently large niche in this area for anyone to be able to credibly make such a claim.   This sort of silliness is not by any means restricted to the yellow pages law firms.  The same sort of rubbish has been touted by some of our larger law firms about public private partnerships.  At a stage when we effectively had none (except, arguably, the Toll Bridges) many of the medium and large law firms in Dublin were extolling their expertise in PPP law, gearing up for the work anticipated under the NDP.  Were they all involved in the East Link/West Link?  hardly.  Were they taken to task for frankly misleading advertising?  of course not.


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## ClubMan (12 Dec 2002)

*Re: "Specialists"*

*If any lawyer in Ireland claims to be a class action specialist, my advice is to find another lawyer.*

_MOB_ - just curious - would the same apply to patent applications? From my (indirect!) experience attempting the, admittedly arduous/complex/arcane, task of applying for (computer software/hardware related patents) through Irish lawyers seems like a waste of time. Maybe I'm being unfair?


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## rainyday (12 Dec 2002)

*Re: "Specialists"*

Aren't there specialist patent engineers (or similar) who focus solely on this area? I had difficulty recognizing the system that I had designed from the patent engineers description of same which eventually went on the patent application!


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## MOB (13 Dec 2002)

*Specialist lawyers*

Patent and trademark work is a long established niche, and there are a number of firms in Dublin who genuinely specialise in this area.  Off the top of my head, I can think of two such firms:

1. F.R. Kelly & Co. 

2  Tompkins 

But there's probably about a half dozen firms in this niche.


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## Tommy (14 Dec 2002)

*Re: Specialist lawyers*

Would there be any point in taking a class action against Equitable? 

I would have thought it would be like suing the 16 year old joyrider who crashes into your car - you might get a nice €30K decree in court but collecting it would be difficult as the guy wouldn't have two cent to rub together.


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## Mithrandir (16 Dec 2002)

*Possible Court Action*

EQ lied to Irish investors, selling the notion that the Irish fund was separate. When the *!*! hit the fan these same people were told that they were part of the main fund. EQ has an exposure:

1. It's Irish reps may be willing to give evidence supporting the above since they too were misinformed by their English management.

2. Irish "members" were never given financial accounts, agm notices, ballot papers etc.

3. Irish policies were issued under Irish law.

I expect that this will be tested in the Irish courts. If an Irish court rules that the Irish fund was separate, that it was sold this way, and much like a UL fund should not be raided to prop up the UK WP fund, the case may hold. Sure, a lot of investors invested very large amounts like €1million plus, and many have bailed out taking the exit pain. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an actionable case against EQ for misselling at the very least. Nor does the scale of a persons wealth preclude them from support in this issue. There is also a great many ordinary investors.

I am increasingly of the view that EQ has a specific charge to defend against its actions in Ireland, and shouldn't be let get away with it, just because it hovered up the investor that chose to bypass Irish intermediaries and Irish life offices. The DETE has also been of little support.

These are fellow citizens that look to have been burned by an industry participant, and I don't think criticism of them is well judged. I hope they win their case.


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## Tommy (23 Dec 2002)

*Re: Possible Court Action*

Hi Mith,

I always thought that it was very strange that a decision in a UK court could torpedo the investments of Irish pension holders, who were indeed marketed policies on the basis that the Irish funds were totally separate from the UK ones.


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## garrettod (4 Jan 2003)

*...*

*Mithrandir*

Where were you when I needed you ?   

About 12 - 18 months ago, I came close to driving Brendan Burges mad, being the attempted champion of EL members in Ireland.   I think at one point, he even commented on the fact that he thought I was a very nice guy, he just wished I knew something about other matters financial besides EL  

Sadly, I have since cashed out, taking a small hit along the way (although granted it was nothing like the "hit" members in EL have since been asked to take).

Your dead right to be considering an action against EL here in Ireland.  Several times, I tried to confront EL on the issue of there being a seperate WP fund here in Ireland & early indications from the company when I spoke to them by telephone was that there may have been.  However, trying to get anything from them in writting proved near impossible.

Nonetheless, I will have a look through my old files and see if I can find anything of use to you & others considering an action against EL.  There is definitely a case to fight here in the Irish courts, I just hope you win it  

Regards

G>


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