# Incompetence & lack of customer service



## Gordon Gekko (23 Sep 2016)

It is so difficult to get anything done these days on the banking side of things. In the last two days, I have encountered breathtaking incompetence.

I opened a new account with one institution and received an "account opening pack" which set out exactly what I needed to send back. On the address verification side, the standard "utility bill dated within the last 6 months" was an option. As was a Tax Credit Certificate dated this year. My wife went into a branch to complete the process and the document was refused because it was more than 6 months old.

So I got another document and got it certified by an accountant as per the bank's letter and the bank's website. I received a call to say that the document could only be certified by the bank. I pushed back and it looks like (fingers crossed) the process may be complete.

Then I had the saga of repaying a loan (this is with another institution). I repaid it online and I need a closing statement urgently. I was told to get it online, but I can't as the account has completely disappeared from my online profile. So I called them to request a statement and was told that it would take 2-3 weeks which is crazy. I said that I need it urgently and was advised to go to my branch (where the loan was issued) as they could give me a statement. They looked at me like I had four heads and told me that they had no such facility. I was advised to download it from their online banking (not possible) and told that it would be closer to 5 days before a statement arrived in the post. Eventually they were able to do some form of document search and find me a duplicate of the document I needed.

I haven't had the need to go into a branch or call a bank for a while. Is this what it's come to? Misinformation, frustration, and incompetence?!


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## Páid (23 Sep 2016)

Wasn't it always that way?


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## snowyb (23 Sep 2016)

They're even worse if you're trying to finalise a deceased person's estate, as executors doing the work ourselves.
There seems to be no staff training at all around handling these issues, from start to finish.
We were told there was no need to make an appointment, wrong information given about list of documents required,  a total waste of 
an afternoon, time off work arranged and organising an elderly relative to attend.   You would assume at the very least,  that these situations
would be dealt with in an office with some privacy and discretion, no such thing.   To say we were fuming at the time is an understatement.

They must be only used to dealing with solicitors in this regard, customer service was non existant, totally unprofessional.  

Snowyb


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## odyssey06 (23 Sep 2016)

_On the address verification side, the standard "utility bill dated within the last 6 months" was an option. As was a Tax Credit Certificate dated this year. My wife went into a branch to complete the process and the document was refused because it was more than 6 months old.
_
Pick that battle and log a formal complaint. I suspect you are not the first or last person to fall foul of that kind of mis-information.


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## Jim2007 (23 Sep 2016)

Gordon Gekko said:


> I haven't had the need to go into a branch or call a bank for a while. Is this what it's come to? Misinformation, frustration, and incompetence?!



Well if it is any consolation it is exactly the same over here (Switzerland), with one added dimension you need to get the documents in a language you understand!  My son turned 18 this year and having setup up his accounts at his chosen bank, he keeps getting everything in Italian!  He told the advisor he did not care if the documents were sent in English, French or German - given three choices the advisor picked a fourth!  He has now decided to go with a different bank because despite several calls to them they seem to be incapable of changing the correspondence language, despite the country having four national languages.


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## Gerry Canning (23 Sep 2016)

Please , please folks.

Why oh why are any of you surprised by Banks.
What other businesses would you even allow a scintilla of what you post happen.
Get it into your heads Banks are @ best to be tolerated.
.........
re. address verification,
Doc was refused correctly because it was outside the six months. No complaint grounds there.
.................
Snowy.
Common courtesy would suggest privacy .
...............

Maybe its because their ability to steal with a smile is gone ,that you see their real faces.
And I mean steal as per umpteen issues.


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## Monbretia (23 Sep 2016)

Tax credit forms are normally accepted if dated within the present year as they are only issued once a year, same with insurance policy for id purposes.  Utility bills that issue more frequently need to be within 6 months or 3 in some institutions.   But banks make their own rules on this, only grounds for complaint is if supplied info online differs to what is in branch.


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## Gordon Gekko (23 Sep 2016)

Gerry Canning said:


> re. address verification,
> Doc was refused correctly because it was outside the six months. No complaint grounds there



Why? The bank wrote to me and stated clearly that a utility bill must be dated within the last 6 months, whereas a Tax Credit Certificate must be dated in the current year.


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## Nordkapp (23 Sep 2016)

In the not too distant future all banking will be online, there will be no branches to visit. Everything is going online. The record keeping aspect will force us all to take screenshots of our accounts and keep our own records.

UB are almost there, BOI probably still a relic of the past. Remember at one stage an account opened in Swords had to be closed in Swords as they could not do the termination at a branch where the account was not opened.


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## Gordon Gekko (24 Sep 2016)

My own view is that if we fast forward a few years, someone else (e.g. Apple) will be providing the banking services in a better and more consumer friendly way.

Calling a spade a spade, banks are rubbish. They really are. Ridiculous policies and procedures, bad customer service, and an unwillingness to help customers.


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## Ihana (24 Sep 2016)

I have moved accounts twice in the last four years due to bad customer service.  Im with BOI now and of course they are killing me on charges but at least stuff gets done.  

Have lived abroad recently too and the banking experience was so much easier.  I dont know why they cant get it right here.


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## Jim2007 (24 Sep 2016)

Ihana said:


> Have lived abroad recently too and the banking experience was so much easier.



Which country out of interest?


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## Ihana (24 Sep 2016)

Nordic


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## Gordon Gekko (1 Oct 2016)

It gets better. One of the documents I sent in was certified by a Chartered Accountant (as per the banks own guidelines). I hadn't heard anything for quite a while so I called the bank. Eventually I was told that my new account hasn't been opened yet because the bank have been repeatedly trying to get in touch with the Chartered Accountant who certified the document!

This AML stuff is out of control. Does it actually prevent money laundering at all?  I doubt it. All it does is annoy the public.


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## LS400 (3 Oct 2016)

Gordon,
Im not a fan of the banks, and have successfully received 2 apologies from 2 different banks and a small compensation payment from one of them over poor service this year alone, but, Im Confused here regarding your utility bill refusal,

Was it out of date or not? . If it was, then they can refuse it, and I cant see that argument going anywhere.  Maybe Im reading it wrong, but you dont dispute it was out of date.

I always finish up a call to the banks by scratching my head wondering if their left hand knows what the right hand is doing. You will get a different answer to the same question from each individual you speak to.


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## jim (3 Oct 2016)

I hear your frustration Gordon. All but 1 of the banks persistently frustrate and anger me with their incompetence, stubborness and shambolic customer service. I do most of my banking now with 1 bank simply because of their excellent customer service (in my experience) and their apparent competence and that bank is KBC.


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## odyssey06 (3 Oct 2016)

LS400 said:


> Gordon,
> Im not a fan of the banks, and have successfully received 2 apologies from 2 different banks and a small compensation payment from one of them over poor service this year alone, but, Im Confused here regarding your utility bill refusal,
> 
> Was it out of date or not? . If it was, then they can refuse it, and I cant see that argument going anywhere.  Maybe Im reading it wrong, but you dont dispute it was out of date.



My reading was that the bank's correspondence said to use a utility bill dated within last 6 months, *or *a tax credit document dated *this year*. OP used a tax document dated this year that was more than 6 months old, which *should *have been acceptable based on what was communicated to the OP. The bank were either (a) wrong in their correspondence or (b) wrong in their refusal to accept the document. Either (a) or (b) is a CPC breach.

It seems the customer is expected to second guess the legal requirements so they know better than the banks what is actually required!


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## Gordon Gekko (3 Oct 2016)

Exactly. Their letter stated a utility bill dated within the last 6 months or a tax credit certificate for the current year (no 6 month stipulation). I compiled the stuff and my wife's tax credit certificate (dated January 2016) was refused on the basis of being more than 6 months old.

Their letter and their website also state that a document can be certified by a Bank employee, a Garda, a solicitor, or a chartered accountant. I happened to be meeting one, so got him to certify the replacement document and sent it off. I hadn't heard anything for 10 days so I called the Bank and was told that they'd been trying to contact the accountant to verify his certification but had been unsuccessful. Seriously???


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## Gordanus (13 Oct 2016)

If you think your online bank is antiquated, try EBS.  Tried to set up a payment from my EBS a/c online earlier this week.  Involves setting up a "new benficiary" and phone call to EBS.  Told it would go through either later that day or at latest 11am the following morning. 2 days later, no transfer.  Sent email, but it takes them 2 days to reply so phoned.  Hadn't been told that the transfer I thought I'd done, hadn't been done because I should have done it AFTER the initial phone call confirming the new beneficiary.  If I do it now, (Thurs) it might not go through till Monday!! 

I pointed out it would have been a lot faster if I'd gone down to the branch, withdrawn the cash, and walked down the road to the other bank to deposit it.

Why aren't EFTs instant??  (Serious question)


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## Tintagel (22 Oct 2016)

A stockbroker who is updating my Anti-money details is requesting a copy of my passport or driving licence. They also want a copy of my bank statement and also a utility bill.

Does anyone know why they want a copy of my bank statement AND utility bill? No other choice of documentation seems to be acceptable.

I thought that this AML was about photo and address ID.

Why do they want my bank statement?


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## Willy Fogg (24 Oct 2016)

To confirm the source of your funds, perhaps?

Have you asked them?


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## Leper (24 Oct 2016)

1. Passport and Driving Licence - to confirm who you are.
2. Recent Utility Bill - to confirm where you live.
3. Bank Statement - to know what kind of bread available to you and what is coming in and going out.

Ask me another . . . .


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## Tintagel (24 Oct 2016)

Well they already know who I am as I have been doing business with them since 1998. They are only updating their AML records.

The documentation that they sent me was in respect of Anti-Money Laundering Law legislation. The Central Bank legislation is only concerned with Photo and address identification. I have no problem providing this.

Whether I have funds to buy shares is a separate matter and should not be dealt with as part of Anti-Money Laundering legislation.


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## Kimmagegirl (24 Oct 2016)

How often does the Financial Institution have to update it's records for an existing customer?

I always thought that you had a menu of items that you could provide to confirm your address details rather than having to provide specific items such as a bank statement?


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## Firefly (24 Oct 2016)

Myself & Mrs. Firefly went into Ulster Bank on a recent Sat morning to open bank accounts for the kids. The kids were with us and all excited (I told them I would double their pocket money if they put it into the bank as opposed to keeping it "handy" at home). We had all the paper work with us and the girl behind the counter (who didn't want to be there) told us we would need to make an appointment. I asked her could we fill out all the forms and for her to take the documents she needed and we could then follow up during the week but she said no. The place was empty. Both our kids are under 10 and they lost a pair of customers for a long time.


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## Monbretia (24 Oct 2016)

That wasn't really the girl's fault, it's the UB system, she couldn't open them there and then as they have to follow a big long procedure (which to be honest I think is more about cross selling but that's another story) and it has to be appointment as it has to be filled in as you go on the screen in an office which then prints it out for signing. 

It hasn't been possible to open an account at the counter in there for a long time.

Head off again for the credit union


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## Leper (25 Oct 2016)

Tintagel said:


> Well they already know who I am as I have been doing business with them since 1998. They are only updating their AML records.
> 
> The documentation that they sent me was in respect of Anti-Money Laundering Law legislation. The Central Bank legislation is only concerned with Photo and address identification. I have no problem providing this.
> 
> Whether I have funds to buy shares is a separate matter and should not be dealt with as part of Anti-Money Laundering legislation.



Sorry for you getting offended Tintagel, but I only answered what you asked.  I go into my local post-office at least twice a week and am on first name terms with the two friendly girls who work there.  I had to cash a €300 postal/money order and was still obliged to provide identification i.e. in this case my driving licence. It didn't take long.  Perhaps, I am just one of those innocents who provides what's asked, doesn't illegally enter yellow boxes, doesn't park on double yellow lines, stops on red etc? 

If I could only spend a few hours with you, I suppose I could turn into something different.


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## Tintagel (25 Oct 2016)

Leper. I think you are missing my point.

The Central bank wants me to provide photographic proof of identification and proof of my address. Nothing else.

There is a list of items of documentation that I have a choice of providing.

My stockbroker however, is insisting that I provide a copy of my bank statement plus a utility bill.

The Central Bank has not said that I HAVE to provide a copy of my bank statement. I have a choice of items that I can provide.

This is about proof of identity and address.

It seems as if my stockbroker is looking for additional information about me by asking me for my bank statement and using the Anti Money Laundering legislation as an excuse to get this information from me.

*****************

In your Post Office case the staff might need to put your ID details on the back of the Postal Order if you do not maintain an account so that you can be contacted down the road if there is a problem with the postal order. I worked in a bank for many years. I remember cashing a stolen postal order for an individual. It took nearly 3 months for the postal order to be returned unpaid. Sometimes the only "memory" of the transaction is the ID or reference that is written on it at the time of cashing.


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## Bronte (25 Oct 2016)

jim said:


> I hear your frustration Gordon. All but 1 of the banks persistently frustrate and anger me with their incompetence, stubborness and shambolic customer service. I do most of my banking now with 1 bank simply because of their excellent customer service (in my experience) and their apparent competence and that bank is KBC.



I'm with KBC too and I love them.  The best bank I have ever used bar none.  Do not speak to me about Ulster bank.  And I will not darken the door of AIB or BofI.


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## cremeegg (26 Oct 2016)

Tintagel said:


> A stockbroker who is updating my Anti-money details



Love it


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## Kimmagegirl (28 Oct 2016)

Leper said:


> If I could only spend a few hours with you, I suppose I could turn into something different.



Once a Lemming then always a Lemming springs to mind.

It seems to me that some companies are putting their own take on what the regulations are. Even individuals at "the counter" are making up rules as they go along. Tin God syndrome!  No harm in double checking, rather than follow like a Lemming.


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## dub_nerd (28 Oct 2016)

I'm about to go the Post Office with AML documentation. It's for a maturing National Solidarity Bond. I had the same rigmarole four years ago when I opened it. As then, I'm going to print an online ESB bill and hope they don't notice it's not an original. I have literally zero utilities, banks etc. who ever send me physical mail anymore which is why I can't understand how AML requirements can be so far behind the times. Does nobody else have this problem? I also have to produce some official Revenue documentation for proof of PPSN. The only thing I have is a demand letter for €100 (based on me doing a tax return for ten years ago just to make sure I was 100% up to date, which they then made impossible to pay online). Anyone know if that will suffice? It's on Revenue official paper and has my address and PPSN on it.


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## elcato (28 Oct 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> I also have to produce some official Revenue documentation for proof of PPSN


You are not receiving any payment from anyone ? You don't have a P60 or a P45 ? If you put your PPS number into revenue to get your local office do they recognize it ? Maybe you could ask them for a letter if that's the case.


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## dub_nerd (28 Oct 2016)

Nope. No payments. No P60 or P45. I pay Revenue some PRSI every year, can't remember if the receipt is online or by letter. Apparently you can get some sort of letter from them by asking. Turns out I didn't need it anyway -- I misread the Nat. Solidarity Bond form. You only need the AML documentation for repayment if you are changing address so I am sorted for now. The general problem remains though for any future dealings -- I simply do not get any identifying information by post. Every single thing is online these days -- ESB, waste collection, water, TV, internet, phone, bank account, credit card statements, car and house insurance, and everything else I can think of. I thought I was being environmentally responsible by ensuring I get no paper mail. I don't do paid work, I'm not on a pension, and I don't claim any welfare payments so I generally have no contact with DSP or Revenue (except online, once per year).


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## moneybox (28 Oct 2016)

EBAY - worst customer service in the whole planet  God help anyone that has the misfortune to deal with them.


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## PaddyBloggit (28 Oct 2016)

moneybox said:


> EBAY - worst customer service in the whole planet  God help anyone that has the misfortune to deal with them.



Tell us more ......


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## moneybox (28 Oct 2016)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Tell us more ......



I wouldn't no where to begin, somethings are best forgotten.


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## PaddyBloggit (28 Oct 2016)

Grand so ....


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## Kimmagegirl (29 Oct 2016)

Only this morning I was off getting my Laya Healthcare payment receipt photocopied as proof of address as well as my credit card statement (redacted). The people I am dealing with are insisting on two items of proof of address as well as photo I.D.  I am not sure why they need two items. They are saying it is a Central Bank requirement but I cannot find any details about this!


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## cremeegg (29 Oct 2016)

Kimmagegirl said:


> It seems to me that some companies are putting their own take on what the regulations are.



Yes that is what they have to do. The CB lays down the requirements, not how they are to be met. The CB says that banks must have proof of a customers identity and address. The bank then must develop a policy to meet that requirement. therefore not all banks policies will be the same.

Banks also change their policies all the time, for example a mobile phone bill used to be acceptable form of proof of address in many banks, however when they discovered how easy it is to get a false address on this, they decided that it was no longer acceptable.

Of course, there is nothing to stop banks looking for additional information under the guise of meeting CB requirements. However if they were then to use that for marketing purposes, that would be a breach of the Data Protection act.


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## McGaggs (7 Dec 2016)

dub_nerd said:


> I'm about to go the Post Office with AML documentation. It's for a maturing National Solidarity Bond. I had the same rigmarole four years ago when I opened it. As then, I'm going to print an online ESB bill and hope they don't notice it's not an original. I have literally zero utilities, banks etc. who ever send me physical mail anymore which is why I can't understand how AML requirements can be so far behind the times. Does nobody else have this problem? I also have to produce some official Revenue documentation for proof of PPSN. The only thing I have is a demand letter for €100 (based on me doing a tax return for ten years ago just to make sure I was 100% up to date, which they then made impossible to pay online). Anyone know if that will suffice? It's on Revenue official paper and has my address and PPSN on it.



I've got one of these maturing, and there's nowhere on the form to put in an IBAN for the repayment. I emailed them and they've told me they will only issue a cheque. I don't have an account with a bank that will accept a cheque. When I told them this, they just repeated that they only issue cheques and ignored my next email.

Does anyone have any ideas how to get my money back from them?


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## thedaddyman (7 Dec 2016)

McGaggs said:


> I've got one of these maturing, and there's nowhere on the form to put in an IBAN for the repayment. I emailed them and they've told me they will only issue a cheque. I don't have an account with a bank that will accept a cheque. When I told them this, they just repeated that they only issue cheques and ignored my next email.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas how to get my money back from them?



who do you bank with. ?


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## McGaggs (25 Feb 2017)

thedaddyman said:


> who do you bank with. ?


I bank with N26 and Bunq.


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## thedaddyman (27 Feb 2017)

McGaggs said:


> I bank with N26 and Bunq.



Contact your 2 banks and see do they have any arrangements with any Irish banks for the handling of paper payments. It's possible they will (it's often called an agency arrangement). If so, you may be able to lodge at the Irish Bank although clearing the cheque will take longer and may be subject to a fee. Failing that you will need to open an account with an Irish Bank to lodge the cheque and if needs be, close it when it has cleared


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