# How safe are deposits in Anglo-Irish?



## Ninjini (11 Nov 2010)

Hi there,

I have some money (approx €6k) in an Anglo-Irish deposit account and I'm wondering how safe it is?  The Government have said they will extend their guarantee scheme for another 6 months.  Do you think I should take it out and put it elsewhere?  Or leave it there?

Thanks,

Ninjini!


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## jpd (11 Nov 2010)

How long is a piece of string?

How safe it is depends on your perception of the viability of the Government's guarantee. Obviously, a lot of investors believe that it isn't worth the paper it's written one, hence they are selling all Irish Government Bonds, at no matter the price.

If the Government can't restart borrowing in the New Year at reasonable interest rates (whatever they are) then it's a certainty that they will have to avail of the Euro Stability fund. How that will treat depositors in the banks is an unknown although there is no indication that they would not be paid in full.

The best we can hope for is that the 4 year plan, the Dec Budget and our reaction to these as a nation, will demonstrate to investors that we are willing to live within our means even though this will imply hardship - hopefully shared around - and then they will be willing to fund our reduced lifestyle.


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## Lightning (11 Nov 2010)

Option 1) Keep the cash in Anglo and earn 3.1% (if you have a Premium Demand account) and take a risk, however likely, that the government/ECB will continue to be able to repay exiting deposit holders. 

Option 2) Move your cash to Nationwide UK and earn 3.15% and have much greater security. 

I prefer option 2.


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## cremeegg (11 Nov 2010)

Sorry but option 2 is not as different from option 1 as you might think. 

If the Irish banks are unable to pay their depositors and the Irish government is unable to continue to support them, it is likely that legislation will be brought in to limit the withdrawls that can be made from accounts. 

This would apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of any parent bank or foreign govt backing they may have


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## Kev (11 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> Sorry but option 2 is not as different from option 1 as you might think.
> 
> If the Irish banks are unable to pay their depositors and the Irish government is unable to continue to support them, it is likely that legislation will be brought in to limit the withdrawls that can be made from accounts.
> 
> This would apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of any parent bank or foreign govt backing they may have



Did this happen in Greece and Portigal when they went to EU to borrow money from.............


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## jpd (11 Nov 2010)

I don't think Portugal have borrowed from EU


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## JoeB (11 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> ...   it is likely that legislation will be brought in to limit the withdrawls that can be made from accounts.
> 
> This would apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of any parent bank or foreign govt backing they may have



Would the person be able to travel to the UK to withdraw?


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## Marietta (11 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> This would apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of any parent bank or foreign govt backing they may have


 

 I would imagine Rabobank and NationwideUK Ireland would have lots to say about that.


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## pudds (11 Nov 2010)

*If A Withdrawal Limit were to be Imposed*

Any guesses as to what the amount might be and over what time span, ie daily/weekly/monthly .......


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## 1ofreviewer (11 Nov 2010)

There's alot of questions been asked about "what happens when IMF come in", "whats happens when if we cannot borrow next year" etc etc.. Can I assume that if these happen, any Irish bank inc Anglo and AIB which are nationalized (or nearly) and An Post savings would be wiped out completely ? This does'nt seem possible, does it ?


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## Aloysius (12 Nov 2010)

I don't know what to do either. I have 95k in Anglo and am starting to get a bit worried about it. I already have my Nationwide UK account maxed out so can't move it there and there seems to be a big drop in interest to move to any other non-Irish bank, from 3.2% with Anglo to 2% with Rabo. Any other ideas?


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## jpd (12 Nov 2010)

Buy gold?


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## Lightning (12 Nov 2010)

Aloysius said:


> I don't know what to do either. I have 95k in Anglo and am starting to get a bit worried about it. I already have my Nationwide UK account maxed out so can't move it there and there seems to be a big drop in interest to move to any other non-Irish bank, from 3.2% with Anglo to 2% with Rabo. Any other ideas?



What do you mean by maxed? Do you have 100,000 EUR in the account? The UK guarantee increases to 100,000 EUR from January 1st 2011.

NIB will pay you 3% subject to their T&C's.


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## cremeegg (14 Nov 2010)

Kev said:


> Did this happen in Greece and Portigal when they went to EU to borrow money from.............



Neither Greece nor Portugal have defaulted on their debt. It did happen in Argentina when that govt defaulted


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## cremeegg (14 Nov 2010)

JoeBallantin said:


> Would the person be able to travel to the UK to withdraw?



The operations in Ireland of Rabobank -Rabodirect- and Nationwide Building Society -Nationwide UK (Ireland)- are Irish banks. Their parent companies would have no obligation to reimburse Irish customers


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## cremeegg (14 Nov 2010)

1ofreviewer said:


> There's alot of questions been asked about "what happens when IMF come in", "whats happens when if we cannot borrow next year" etc etc.. Can I assume that if these happen, any Irish bank inc Anglo and AIB which are nationalized (or nearly) and An Post savings would be wiped out completely ? This does'nt seem possible, does it ?



Can you provide any reason for saying "this doesnt seem possible". I can provide several why is seems possible and even some why it seems likely


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## 1ofreviewer (14 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> Can you provide any reason for saying "this doesnt seem possible". I can provide several why is seems possible and even some why it seems likely



Its a question, so if you can provide several, pls do..


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## 1ofreviewer (14 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> The operations in Ireland of Rabobank -Rabodirect- and Nationwide Building Society -Nationwide UK (Ireland)- are Irish banks. Their parent companies would have no obligation to reimburse Irish customers



Are you sure about this, best buys thread seems to say that UK and Danish are backing these deposits.


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## cremeegg (15 Nov 2010)

We are talking about two different things here. You are right that in general foreign owned banks in Ireland are covered by their home countries deposit protection schemes. 

However in the context of an Irish bank failure, legislation might be introduced limiting access to bank deposits. This would almost certainly apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of their home country. 

The parent company would not have any obligation to allow you access to your funds from abroad. My answer to JoeBallantin's question therefore is, no you could just go to the UK and withdraw your money


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## thewatcher (15 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> The operations in Ireland of Rabobank -Rabodirect- and Nationwide Building Society -Nationwide UK (Ireland)- are Irish banks. Their parent companies would have no obligation to reimburse Irish customers




That is just total rubbish you are spouting there, all of these and northern rock are parts of their parent banks operating under licence in Ireland, it's their home guarantee that kicks in first and only the Irish dream one where you have reached the parent countries limit. Iceland tried some of the stuff you are suggesting, it didn't go very well for them, politicans now on trial and frozen out of the eu and state funds frozen for not compensating British and Dutch depositers.


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## Kev (15 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> The operations in Ireland of Rabobank -Rabodirect- and Nationwide Building Society -Nationwide UK (Ireland)- are Irish banks. Their parent companies would have no obligation to reimburse Irish customers



Is the Irish Nationwide building society one and same as UK Nationwide UK (Ireland)
Also is there an address for Rabobank in ireland whrere you can walk in an open an account.


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## Lightning (15 Nov 2010)

Kev said:


> Is the Irish Nationwide building society one and same as UK Nationwide UK (Ireland)
> Also is there an address for Rabobank in ireland whrere you can walk in an open an account.



Irish Nationwide (INBS) are not the same as Nationwide UK. They are totally separate. INBS are dependent on the Irish government and the ECB to survive. Nationwide UK are in a much more healthier state.


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## mmclo (15 Nov 2010)

cremeegg said:


> However in the context of an Irish bank failure, legislation might be introduced limiting access to bank deposits. This would almost certainly apply to all banks operating in Ireland irrespective of their home country.


 
Surely contrary to EU Law, and let's face it the EU politically are increasingly calling the shots


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## serotoninsid (15 Nov 2010)

Have a 1 yr. fixed thats about to mature with Anglo.  Its below the €15K minimum for Ulster Bank.  So that leaves Anglo or INBS as the best rates otherwise.  

I'm finding it hard to work out whether this is safe or not (ie. to stick it stick it in another 1 year fixed with Anglo)??
I already did this with another 1 yr. fixed a couple of months ago - when the consensus seemed a lot more positive (well, that's what it seemed like to me!) re. guarantee, etc.


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## cremeegg (16 Nov 2010)

thewatcher said:


> That is just total rubbish you are spouting there, all of these and northern rock are parts of their parent banks operating under licence in Ireland, it's their home guarantee that kicks in first and only the Irish dream one where you have reached the parent countries limit. Iceland tried some of the stuff you are suggesting, it didn't go very well for them, politicans now on trial and frozen out of the eu and state funds frozen for not compensating British and Dutch depositers.



Now that is not very nice is it. Moving on from your manners, what about your arguments. 

Yes the foreign owned banks in Ireland are parts of their parents, however their operations in Ireland are subject to Irish law.

If the Irish banks were to fail, any legislation that was introduced to deal with the consequences of that situation would, in my opinion only, affect all banks operating in Ireland. 

A saver would still have their UK or Dutch govt guarantee but it might be a long slow process to turn that into cash. I certainly do not think that you could go to a Nationwide branch in London and make a withdrawl.

On the Iceland experience, surely the facts you outline support my argument


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## cork (16 Nov 2010)

CiaranT said:


> Irish Nationwide (INBS) are not the same as Nationwide UK. They are totally separate. INBS are dependent on the Irish government and the ECB to survive. Nationwide UK are in a much more healthier state.




I think Irish banks are safe. That said - I closed off my Irishnationwide account last Saturday.

I also have an Anglo Fixed Rate Account that I am not overly worried about.

But I decided to close off the Anglo easy access account.


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## alaskaonline (23 Nov 2010)

I am in the "panic boat" at the moment, too  
A colleague of mine recommended Rabo yesterday. I am getting confused now reading the posts here. Can someone put it as simple as that to me: 
If the Irish banks go completely down hill and financially "vanish" - are my savings in a Rabo account save, yes or no?
And if no, what alternatives do I have?

Thanks for any advise.


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## cavanMan (23 Nov 2010)

alaskaonline said:


> I am in the "panic boat" at the moment, too
> A colleague of mine recommended Rabo yesterday. I am getting confused now reading the posts here. Can someone put it as simple as that to me:
> If the Irish banks go completely down hill and financially "vanish" - are my savings in a Rabo account save, yes or no?
> And if no, what alternatives do I have?
> ...



Firstly the ECB are not going to let any Irish bank collapse, more likely what is going to happen we are going to have at least two big banks and the rest ie building societies will be merged.

Rabo is a AAA bank so your money is pretty much safe there also check out Nationwide UK they offer much better interest rates then Rabo.


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## Expat64 (23 Nov 2010)

I've just checked the ratings of Nationwide (UK):

S&P is A+
Moody's is Aa3
Fitch is AA-


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## farmerette (23 Nov 2010)

alaskaonline said:


> I am in the "panic boat" at the moment, too
> A colleague of mine recommended Rabo yesterday. I am getting confused now reading the posts here. Can someone put it as simple as that to me:
> If the Irish banks go completely down hill and financially "vanish" - are my savings in a Rabo account save, yes or no?
> And if no, what alternatives do I have?
> ...


 
savings are safe , the whole purpose of the bailour from the eu was to prevent an irish bank collapse becoming a european bank collapse , it could not be allowed to happen , british and german banks are up thier necks in irish banks ,  the trade off for our savings being secure is a 100 billion mortgage to be landed on three generations of irish people


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## Lightning (23 Nov 2010)

I would say, savings are safe for the medium term when an IMF agreement is passed by the Dail. 

The ECB have stopped providing liquidity to some Irish banks. The IMF agreement needs to be signed and approved in order for emergency liquidity to resume to the banks.


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## cork (24 Nov 2010)

I have a fixed rate with Anglo. I am pretty worried about it.

It won't mature till 03/11.

I will probably hold my nerve.


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