# Parking outside house buggy owner annoyed



## annabo (19 Mar 2009)

Arrived home for lunch only to see a handwritten note posted to my address asking me to please not park outside my house as I am blocking someones daughter with her buggy! 

The road that I live on everybody parks their cars on the pathways outside their respective houses as there is nowhere else to park. It seems by the tone of the letter that this note was just sent to me and no other residents on the street.

I am soooo annoyed, does anyone have any advice they can give. I understand that legally no one has a right to park outside their house, but surely trying to suggest a resident to move their car and going through any legal action at all (not saying there would be) would have to apply to all residents on the street?!...any help on this would be great, of course they left no forwarding address or name it was signed of 'Thank you, a Granny'..!!!!!!


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## paddywhacker (19 Mar 2009)

Do you park on the path or the road? Because if it's the path, I can see where she's coming from. Paths are for pedestrians


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## McCrack (19 Mar 2009)

You correct in saying it is legal to park a vehicle on a public road (current tax disk displayed) but it not legal to park a vehicle on or across a footpath.

And legalities aside I think this person has a point, as would a wheelchair user, as would any person who has to step out onto the road to pass your car obstructing their way.


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## Allen (19 Mar 2009)

Were you parking illegally on the footpath forcing elderly ladies to put babies in danger by walking on the road in the traffic?


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## annabo (19 Mar 2009)

Can I have a constructive legal response on this please? and specifically in in relation to all the residence on the road.


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## DeeFox (19 Mar 2009)

Could this be on a road in a Cork suburb with speedbumps beginning with T?  I ask because I got a very similar note left on my car when I parked there - exact same words used.  I didn't need to park there so didn't use that area again.

My advice would be to ignore it and continue to park there.  The road is for public use.  Given that you live there can you make a guess as to who it is?  If so, drop the note back in to them with a very polite note saying that they do not have a right to that parking space.


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## Card (19 Mar 2009)

you can't park on a footpath, or in any way that is likely to be a danger or an obstruction to pedestrians, its covered by the road traffic acts if you have time to go looking for it
I know that it is tolerated in a lot of areas but that doesn't mean that it legal


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## Smashbox (19 Mar 2009)

A legal answer is that its illegal to park on a footpath. I think the note leaver is correct in asking you, and has every right to report you for this.


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## annabo (19 Mar 2009)

so they have a right to report all 40 or so residence who park this way on the road and that would apply to all other residence in the town?


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## Card (19 Mar 2009)

yup!


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## Smashbox (19 Mar 2009)

It would apply to anyone parking a car on a footpath. Anywhere.

(Post crossed with cards)


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## annabo (19 Mar 2009)

yeah smashbox I got that from the previous mail..


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## Cashstrapped (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> so they have a right to report all 40 or so residence who park this way on the road and that would apply to all other residence in the town?



Or maybe if everyone done what she asked then she wouldn't feel the need to report it.  This is a dreadful problem in our estate too, there is a woman who has a child in a wheelchair who has on numerous occasions been forced to wheel him out on the road because of inconsiderate people who park their cars 'fully' on the path.


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## Smashbox (19 Mar 2009)

Found the law about this..

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997

36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;


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## annabo (19 Mar 2009)

Dear Moderator, I believe some people may be getting a bit too angry in this debacle.


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## sam h (19 Mar 2009)

She may only have written to you as you may have been further in than the rest of the cars (that doesn't make your parking more illegal than theirs!!).  I'd reckon it was a neighbour who left in the note as how else whould they have known where you live?

Back in the days of pushing a double buggy & having 3 year old walking beside me, I can fully understand how annoying & dangerous it is to have to navigate between the parked cars, down a high kerb, along a busy road, back up onto the kerb.....it ain't easy.

Legally, it would appear you (and your neighbours) are in the wrong.  You should be grateful she didn;t take the legal route herself & call the Gardai to issue you all with tickets....I suspect she was trying to be reasonable!!


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## extopia (19 Mar 2009)

No parking on the footpaths, please! People who do so really are inconsiderate of their neighbours and other users of the footpaths.


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## Bronte (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> so they have a right to report all 40 or so residence who park this way on the road and that would apply to all other residence in the town?


 
Did you park on the path or on the road?  It is not clear from your posts.


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## becky (19 Mar 2009)

Bronte said:


> Did you park on the path or on the road? It is not clear from your posts.


 
I thought the same first but she says later everyone parks on the footpath. I'm guessing its one of the small streets where the houses were built in a time when people didn't have cars.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Mar 2009)

Its not just old roads. A lot of new developments estates and apartments were built with insufficient parking and roads too narrow so the developers could squeeze as much profit out of the area as possible and to heck with how it effected the residents in the years to come. Our broken planning process allowed this. Should never have been allowed. 

Where I live, new development, is the same. Cars all park with 2 wheels on the pavement. Unless they come around and ticket everyone on a regular basis this won't stop.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> ....I am soooo annoyed, does anyone have any advice they can give.



Accept you are in the wrong and forget about it. Maybe you were further in than usual. Park leaving loads of space is probably a reasonable compromise. If someone makes a bigger fuss of it, everyone including yourself might get a ticket!


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## markpb (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> Dear Moderator, I believe some people may be getting a bit too angry in this debacle.



The reason people get annoyed is that it's very dangerous for pedestrians (of all kinds) to have to walk on the road because someone has parked on the footpath. If pedestrians parked themselves on the middle of the road and forced car drivers to driver around them, the reaction would be the same.

Park properly.


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## becky (19 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA - I agree but the OP said everyone parks on the street so I was only guessing.

I lived in an awful estate years ago where if you weren't in before 7 you hadn't a hope of getting somewhere to park and then you were often then were blocked in till morning.  There simply was enough places to park.


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## Optimist (19 Mar 2009)

I used to live on a street where everyone routinely parked on both sides of the street with 2 wheels on the footpath. That was until one day when more than 20 cars in a row were clamped! It was an hilarious sight (mainly because I wasn't one of them). Anyway, my point is that from that day forth, everybody parked with all 4 wheels on the tarmac. This not only cleared up the footpaths, it had the added knock on bonus of slowing down the traffic on the street.


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## bond-007 (19 Mar 2009)

A sensible response from the authorities.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Mar 2009)

annabo

You asked a question. You got an answer. It is illegal to park on the footpath. 

Don't attack other posters because you did not get the answers you would like. 

Other posters, please try to stick to the point - whether this is a bit "Irish"  or not is irrelevant. 

Brendan


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## becky (19 Mar 2009)

optimist said:


> it was an hilarious sight (mainly because i wasn't one of them).


:d


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## DubShelley (19 Mar 2009)

What advice are you looking for OP? If you parked on the footpath (which I still don't think has been clarified by you), then you are at fault and there's not a lot you can do about it other than park properly!!


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## becky (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> The road that I live on everybody parks their cars on the pathways outside their respective houses as there is nowhere else to park.


 
Based on this I'd say she was on the footpath along with everyone else.


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## AlbacoreA (19 Mar 2009)

You'd need signs to highlight this, as otherwise people unaware of past clamping would just park on the path.


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## ney001 (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> Dear Moderator, I believe some people may be getting a bit too angry in this debacle.



It would seem that you are the one getting a bit too angry.  

Question has been answered many times, you are in the wrong, never mind what the other residents are doing you should not be parking on the footpath - it is illegal end of!


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## Smashbox (19 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> Dear Moderator, I believe some people may be getting a bit too angry in this debacle.


 
Whos getting angry? I think your the angry one, because no one has felt the way you do! You're obviously mad that this lady has sent you a note for doing something illegal, and got sour because people can see that what you did was wrong and havent taken your side!


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## Caveat (19 Mar 2009)

Also Annabo, you have been asked 4 or 5 times whether or not you were actually parked on the pavement - and have not directly answered.

It is difficult to get 'constructive legal advice' which you clearly want, if you don't respond to pertinent, reasonable queries.


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## Purple (19 Mar 2009)

A bit off topic but;
The entrance to the estate I grew up on was near a park so every weekend people double parked on both sides of the road leaving just enough room for one car to get through. One day a house went on fire and the fire tender couldn’t get in do they just drove up on the bonnet of the first car and flattened it and the five behind it (imagine how heavy a fire tender is with a full load of water).


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## Sully1 (19 Mar 2009)

As previous posters have stated parking on the path is illegal, hwever, usually a general 'rule' if leaving a car parked on a path is to ensure a double buggy or wheelchair can get by - then you'll be unlucky to get a ticket......

I'd have read the note and left it at that, grateful that it wasn't a parking ticket......................


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## Leo (20 Mar 2009)

annabo said:


> Dear Moderator, I believe some people may be getting a bit too angry in this debacle.


 
I don't see signs of anyone getting angry here. You asked a question, all other posters are of the one opinion that it is illegal to park on a footpath, indeed the relevant piece of legislation has been quoted. Just because you don't like the answer is no justification for accusing others of posting in anger.
Leo


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## Mpsox (20 Mar 2009)

I live in an estate where everyone(including myself) parks on the footpath, mainly because if we all parked on the road, the space left would be very very narrow 

However it really annoys me (and Mrs Sox) when we are out with the smallie in her buggy or on her trike and some idiot has parked too close to the wall and we can't get past. We then have to go out on the road to get around .which is not always safe.

If you are parking on the footpath, you are breaking the law but the OP is being careless and dangerous by not at least having the manners to let people pass


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## Smashbox (20 Mar 2009)

Leo said:


> I don't see signs of anyone getting angry here. You asked a question, all other posters are of the one opinion that it is illegal to park on a footpath, indeed the relevant piece of legislation has been quoted. Just because you don't like the answer is no justification for accusing others of posting in anger.
> Leo


 
Here, here Leo. My thoughts exactly.


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## Bronte (20 Mar 2009)

I think we should remember the OP is relatively new and she didn't commit a grave offence.


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## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2009)

I dunno what the fuss is about. I'll bet most people here have parked wheels up on a pavement at some point.


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## Dreamerb (20 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> I dunno what the fuss is about. I'll bet most people here have parked wheels up on a pavement at some point.


It's illegal anyway - but if you're blocking the pavement so that a person in a wheelchair or a person pushing a pram or buggy is forced out on the road to pass the car, it's at least inconveniencing and potentially seriously endangering them. The inconvenience isn't minor either. Have you tried negotiating multiple kerbs in a wheelchair because someone's blocking the path? I've seen people having to do that, and it can mean moving backwards to the nearest point the kerb is dished, around the vehicle, and then unable to get back onto the kerb for another few metres afterwards. 

That's what the fuss is about.


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## markpb (20 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> I dunno what the fuss is about. I'll bet most people here have parked wheels up on a pavement at some point.



If pedestrians regularly walked on the road and forced you as a driver to drive around them, would you be happy? Same applies, it's just courtesy (and the law).


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## LS400 (20 Mar 2009)

Well, you guys have all made your point with great conviction, I dont think the op parks there for the fun of it, We have all parked on foothpaths, so less of the holy joes. Purple was right to make the point, room has to be left for fire-tenders and the like. A little less ganging up please.


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## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2009)

Dreamerb said:


> It's illegal anyway - but if you're blocking the pavement so that a person in a wheelchair or a person pushing a pram or buggy is forced out on the road to pass the car, it's at least inconveniencing and potentially seriously endangering them. The inconvenience isn't minor either. Have you tried negotiating multiple kerbs in a wheelchair because someone's blocking the path? I've seen people having to do that, and it can mean moving backwards to the nearest point the kerb is dished, around the vehicle, and then unable to get back onto the kerb for another few metres afterwards.
> 
> That's what the fuss is about.



I never said it wasn't illegal, or that you shouldn't block people. But you can often park wheels up on the pavement and still leave lots of room. We have lots of pavements which are extremely wide, but with little or no foot traffic on them. Where I live it varies from places with  path, cycle track and a grass verge, probably about 9m wide, to places where theres no footpath at all. No consistency at all. 

You may even park on a road perfectly legally, and then someone else parks opposite you, causing a problem. No one is going to care who parked there first. 

Jaywalking like that NEVER happens in Ireland


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## rory22 (20 Mar 2009)

> A little less ganging up please.


Don't really think it is a case of ganging up LS400, advise was asked for and given, the bottom line being it's illegal to park on a path, when people gave this advise (which was asked for) they were accused of being angry, when people asked if the OP had parked on the path (which she obviously had as they said everybody else does and there is nowhere else to park) the Op would not respond. It's not a matter of being a holy Joes but simply a matter that a lot of posters have in issue with foot paths being blocked so can empathize with the 'granny’. It seems the OP only wanted advice from people that agreed with them.


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## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2009)

Betcha you've all parked in Cycle lanes too. Big meanies.


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## Dreamerb (20 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> I never said it wasn't illegal, or that you shouldn't block people.


Nope, and I do take your point in general. And there are places where it's very difficult to park entirely in accordance with the word of the law without creating an obstruction, although it may be possible to park illegally without causing any difficulty. I did (and perhaps I should have stressed it more for clarity - stress now added!) say "*if *you're blocking the pavement [...]".

I think most of the discussion, and especially most of the criticism, has really been predicated on people who *do* block the pavement for people who need to use it, not those parking with, let's call it, pragmatic illegality but who are still being considerate. I've no bone to pick with the latter; the former should be made use a wheelchair and wheel themselves around their own neighbourhood for a month with no access to a car. Enforced empathy therapy, I'll call it. 

Just saw your bike lane post: _they _should be made cycle.


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## AlbacoreA (20 Mar 2009)

I think people are too quick to "angry" mode. Usually it just someone just not thinking that is causing you a problem, and friendly reminder is often all someone needs to accommodate you. I prefer to think that was the intention of the note in the door mentioned in the OP original post.


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## Dreamerb (20 Mar 2009)

I agree, and I thought there were a few overreactions on the thread - not least by the OP! But it also gets very frustrating for people to have to keep asking to be accommodated, when it's their reasonable right to have an unobstructed pavement. Sometimes people need to think just a little more...


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## LS400 (20 Mar 2009)

There is no ganging up involved. Jaybird...

  Strange how there is no sign of op. I also have had the inconvenience of cars blocking the footpath, we dont know the road the op is on, so it unfair to condem.  Perhaps they are making the best of a bad situation.


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## Smashbox (20 Mar 2009)

Whos ganging up?! The OP asked a question, they had their answer but then accused people of getting angry... and why? cos they didnt get the answer they wanted I guess!

Me thinks its time to let this thread drop.


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## Purple (20 Mar 2009)

If you don't have anywhere to park your car then don't buy one. When I lived in areas where there was no on-street parking and no driveway then I had to make alternative arrangements.


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## Smashbox (20 Mar 2009)

Agree with you there Purple. If you have a car you need to find a space to park before you buy a place.


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## LS400 (20 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> If you don't have anywhere to park your car then don't buy one. When I lived in areas where there was no on-street parking and no driveway then I had to make alternative arrangements.


 

What a wonderful world it is you live in, Did you have any kids to ferry around, was there public transport within walking distance.... Your right on one thing Smashbox. This is exhausted.


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## sparkeee (20 Mar 2009)

You cannot park on the path,it does not matter if someone else is doing it,it is illegal and wrong.


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## tosullivan (20 Mar 2009)

my wife was walking home one day and someone parked their car right in front of her as she was walking half in the drive and half out on the path.  She stopped and waited until they moved and proved her point.  If she didn't she would have been forced to push the buggy onto the road.

The OP should be ashamed of themself


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## Complainer (21 Mar 2009)

Sully1 said:


> As previous posters have stated parking on the path is illegal, hwever, usually a general 'rule' if leaving a car parked on a path is to ensure a double buggy or wheelchair can get by - then you'll be unlucky to get a ticket......


It's not just a question of leaving room. A friend of mine who is blind and uses the white cane regularly comes home with black and blue shins, bruised from knocking into cars on the pavement where they aren't expected.

And don't get me started on parking in cycle lanes!


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## MandaC (21 Mar 2009)

Complainer said:


> It's not just a question of leaving room. A friend of mine who is blind and uses the white cane regularly comes home with black and blue shins, bruised from knocking into cars on the pavement where they aren't expected.
> 
> And don't get me started on parking in cycle lanes!



There is a blind man living on my mams road.  I saw him come around the corner from work one evening and bash straight into a car parked halfway up on the path.  Also at the entrance to the Estate. So restricting visability.  I had passed it a few times, but when I saw that, I was quite annoyed so I parked up my car and went in and knocked into the house concerned.  They were quite apologetic and a bit upset (with themselves)as it just did not cross their mind.


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## Purple (25 Mar 2009)

LS400 said:


> What a wonderful world it is you live in, Did you have any kids to ferry around, was there public transport within walking distance.... Your right on one thing Smashbox. This is exhausted.


So because you need a car you have a right to park it anywhere you want?
Why not just park it in your neighbour’s driveway? Hell, if you have kids to ferry around sure your neighbour should just let you use their car. 

I lived in a house on a clearway with no front garden. I kept my bicycle in the house.
When I had kids and needed a car I moved to a house where I had somewhere to park it.
Children are allowed to construct an argument based on  “but I need/want”, adults (grown-up’s) are not, at least not if they don’t want to be regarded as children.


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## Smashbox (25 Mar 2009)

Agree with you there Purp, if you need a car, don't buy or rent a house without the space for it. If you didnt need a car at the time of your purchase, and your situation changes, so must your house.


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## Kine (25 Mar 2009)

Smashbox said:


> Agree with you there Purp, if you need a car, don't buy or rent a house without the space for it. If you didnt need a car at the time of your purchase, and your situation changes, so must your house.


 
Yup, as we can all just drop everything and move house...

We're not all in ideal situations where everything is as simple as that! I'm lucky that my apartment comes with it's own pre-designated spot....but damn does it annoy me when I come home from work and find someone parked in it!


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## Smashbox (25 Mar 2009)

Kine said:


> Yup, as we can all just drop everything and move house...


 
I know that you cant just drop everything but you would have to move into the market for a new house or apartment with space. If you dont have a space for your car, would you not try and remedy this by moving?


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## Purple (25 Mar 2009)

Kine said:


> ....but damn does it annoy me when I come home from work and find someone parked in it!


 yea, they should have made sure they had a spot before they moved in/ bought the car


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## MandaC (25 Mar 2009)

mugga said:


> keep on parking on the footpath as you do, I live in an estate and everyone does it otherwise there would be no room on the roads. Also as estates tend not to be too busy 'car wise', ie. travellers once they're home often dont move again, there's plenty of room for her to walk on the road. If the gardai came they would warn you I guess but they'd also have to do it to everyone else.




You would not be telling people it is ok to break the law, would you?


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## Smashbox (25 Mar 2009)

MandaC said:


> You would not be telling people it is ok to break the law, would you?


 
I sure hope not, being as its already been confirmed that parking on paths is AGAINST THE LAW!!


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## Complainer (25 Mar 2009)

mugga said:


> keep on parking on the footpath as you do, I live in an estate and everyone does it otherwise there would be no room on the roads. Also as estates tend not to be too busy 'car wise', ie. travellers once they're home often dont move again, there's plenty of room for her to walk on the road. If the gardai came they would warn you I guess but they'd also have to do it to everyone else.


And to hell with those pesky blind people, shure who let them out on their own - right?


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## Smashbox (25 Mar 2009)

Very true. How dare blind people think that they can safely walk the paths.. 

Dont they know people have to park their cars there, thats what paths are for!


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## carpedeum (25 Mar 2009)

We live in a cup de sac of about 25 houses. Most people have paved in part of their garden to accomodate extra cars - adult kids etc. One rented house opposite has four cars with space for one car in the driveway and one outside. One guy was continuously parking outside our house and others, sometimes leaving the car there for days. Not only that, but, he would park on the grass verge between the two trees, churning up the grass verge and taking up two spaces outside the two joined semi d's. Notes failed to re-educate him. As a last resort, we "accessed" his car and moved it around to a common area around the corner. We did it four times... Now... No problemo! Lesson learnt! People will walk on nice people unless forced to stop.


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## Smashbox (26 Mar 2009)

Accessed?! Pray tell...


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## Dreamerb (26 Mar 2009)

mugga said:


> keep on parking on the footpath as you do, I live in an estate and everyone does it otherwise there would be no room on the roads. Also as estates tend not to be too busy 'car wise', ie. travellers once they're home often dont move again, there's plenty of room for her to walk on the road. If the gardai came they would warn you I guess but they'd also have to do it to everyone else.


I really really hope that you are clamped, because that's an utterly obnoxious post. "there's plenty of room for her to walk on the road."??? So you _would put people in harm's way_ because you feel an entitlement to park illegally? Charming.


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## greengrass64 (30 Mar 2009)

Intresting subject, as I just posted about a problem I encountered, for me I am in a wheelchair trying to get to the shops.


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## Smashbox (31 Mar 2009)

As a side note, the OP hasnt returned. Wonder why?!


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

greengrass64 said:


> Intresting subject, as I just posted about a problem I encountered, for me I am in a wheelchair trying to get to the shops.



Wheel chairs users aren't that common. I'd say if you flyer'ed the houses where its a problem, explaining the problem, most people would change their behavior.


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## Padraigb (31 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> Wheel chairs users aren't that common. I'd say if you flyer'ed the houses where its a problem, explaining the problem, most people would change their behavior.



That amounts to saying that wheelchair users should have only certain routes open to them and, even then, as a concession that they have to request.


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## markpb (31 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> Wheel chairs users aren't that common. I'd say if you flyer'ed the houses where its a problem, explaining the problem, most people would change their behavior.



That doesn't help them anywhere else they might want to travel to. How about if the Gardai and local authorities did they jobs and enforced parking regulations properly? I'd say that would have a more lasting effect on peoples behaviour.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

markpb said:


> That doesn't help them anywhere else they might want to travel to. How about if the Gardai and local authorities did they jobs and enforced parking regulations properly? I'd say that would have a more lasting effect on peoples behaviour.



In theory thats what should happen. In real life there isn't a snowballs chance of that happening.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

Padraigb said:


> That amounts to saying that wheelchair users should have only certain routes open to them and, even then, as a concession that they have to request.



Its just being practical. Its something you could do today and perhaps see immediate results from. Changing the whole country, every Garda, and local authority might take a bit longer. 

Of course you could just wait for the Gardai to do a biltz on parking in your local area. Thats sure to win people over in the area you live in. I'd say you'll be waiting for them to do it, based on past experience with them.


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## greengrass64 (31 Mar 2009)

Some people are great re parking , however i notice a few houses are rented out, many different people stay there, and when they park they try to get to the front gate, they abandon cars on footpaths, cyclelane etc. I use one route to go to the shops, and a different route to get to work as they are in different directions. 

I know it is difficult for some to get parking, and the temptation to go across the footpath is there,

I really dont knw why the government bother passing laws that they dont follow, unless they are made do so by Europe


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

I think a lot of people are talking about what should happen in theory. The reality is not quite the same...

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=839869&postcount=17


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## Complainer (31 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> Wheel chairs users aren't that common.


Maybe they would be more common (and capable of doing more day-to-day things that the rest of us take for granted) if drivers would just keep off the paths.


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## greengrass64 (31 Mar 2009)

I agree.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

Complainer said:


> Maybe they would be more common (and capable of doing more day-to-day things that the rest of us take for granted) if drivers would just keep off the paths.



Except that wasn't what I was talking about. If you don't don't see wheelchair users very often, you are simply not going to be as aware of them as you would if you do see them very often. That just a truism. I was making the point that people are just not aware. 

You will probably attract more wheel chair users into an area if there is wide foot paths and plenty of parking easy access. Area's where there not much parking, and narrow footpaths wouldn't attract that many wheel chair users or people with buggies etc. 

How is it realistic to have zero tolerance and full enforcement of parking on pavement, when we have a very long history of very poor enforcement of a wide range of offences, not just parking.


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## Padraigb (31 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> ... You will probably attract more wheel chair users into an area if there is wide foot paths and plenty of parking easy access. Area's where there not much parking, and narrow footpaths wouldn't attract that many wheel chair users or people with buggies etc...



Attract them?

There should be no question of attracting them, and definitely no question of repelling them.


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## Complainer (31 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> Except that wasn't what I was talking about. If you don't don't see wheelchair users very often, you are simply not going to be as aware of them as you would if you do see them very often. That just a truism. I was making the point that people are just not aware.


I don't accept this. If you are not aware of wheelchair users, that is due to ignorance, not due to how many wheelchair users you see each day. This is of course a vicious circle, as if you are not aware of wheelchair users and other people with disabilities, you will not be taking those simple actions that accomodate people with disabilities to participate in life.



AlbacoreA said:


> You will probably attract more wheel chair users into an area if there is wide foot paths and plenty of parking easy access. Area's where there not much parking, and narrow footpaths wouldn't attract that many wheel chair users or people with buggies etc.


This seems to suggest that most people have a range of choices around the areas they go to or go through. Most people don't have such choices, and their routes and destinations are dictated by availability of employment or education etc. 


AlbacoreA said:


> How is it realistic to have zero tolerance and full enforcement of parking on pavement, when we have a very long history of very poor enforcement of a wide range of offences, not just parking.


It is very realistic to have full enforcement of parking regulations if we put our mind to it. Look at the smoking ban - we've had 5 years of near-zero tolerance, largely through self-enforcement. If we as a society decide to prioritise this, it will be enforced.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

Padraigb said:


> Attract them?
> 
> There should be no question of attracting them, and definitely no question of repelling them.



Who is them? People with buggies? Its a fact of life that some places are more suitable to your needs than others. It may have parking. it may not have parking. That doesn't mean that all places should have parking. Or that no place should have parking. Ditto some places are near a pub, near a school, close to the airport.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

Complainer said:


> I don't accept this. If you are not aware of wheelchair users, that is due to ignorance, not due to how many wheelchair users you see each day. This is of course a vicious circle, as if you are not aware of wheelchair users and other people with disabilities, you will not be taking those simple actions that accomodate people with disabilities to participate in life.



Therefore it must be ignorance not to know what a baby or kids need if you've never had any experience of them. Or its ignorance if you have a tea station and no cups with lids, as everyone should know people on crutches can't carry open cups. or braille labels on everything. 



Complainer said:


> This seems to suggest that most people have a range of choices around the areas they go to or go through. Most people don't have such choices, and their routes and destinations are dictated by availability of employment or education etc.



Thats a fair point. But equally you'll tend to get some areas which have more families in them than others. Some areas would have hardly any families in them. Obviously you'll get more child friendly facilities and resources in one area than the other. 



Complainer said:


> It is very realistic to have full enforcement of parking regulations if we put our mind to it. Look at the smoking ban - we've had 5 years of near-zero tolerance, largely through self-enforcement. If we as a society decide to prioritise this, it will be enforced.



Well thats a good parallel, and a good point. But it would be interesting to see why that change happened and other equally important regulations are not self enforced.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Mar 2009)

jaybird said:


> You are obfuscating the point. The point is not that some places are by their nature more or less suitable for particular groups. The point is that perfectly accessible places are made inaccessible, awkward and downright dangerous for no other reason than people parking their cars are thoughtless and law breaking!
> Its a very simple idea, pavements are for pedestrians of all kinds, not for parking your car. If you can't park legally in that spot, park somewhere else. Do not inconvenience others by selfish parking.



Whats obfuscating is quoting me out of context to try and make that my point. But that wasn't what I was saying. I was simply saying that people often aren't aware of things they don't see/experience very often. Then giving the reason why you might not see it very often.

Like people aren't aware why a cyclist needs to come out of a cycle lane at a junction, and block the cars behind them, because most drivers have no experience of it. Even though legally you have to stay in a cycle lane where there is one. If you don't interact with cyclists, in your usual driving because there aren't any on that route, you don't won't be aware of issues like that.


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## grooney (24 Apr 2009)

My neighbour constantly has visitors and they all park across the footpath so it is impossible for anyone to use the footpath. It is incredibly selfish and ignorant and makes me so angry. Everyday I seethe about this and would like to say something to them but it is a difficult situation because I have to live next door to them. I have considered putting an anonymous note through their door or even calling the guards but I probably wont do anything but continue to seethe and vent on 'askaboutmoney'!

Incidentally, I was visiting my friend the other day and we decided to go for a walk with her 11 week old twins. One of her neighbours had parked across the footpath which would force us onto the road with the buggy. Luckily, the car owner spotted what was going on and came out and moved the car and also apologised. 

I just feel that some people are very self obsessed and have an inability to think of others and how their actions could negatively affect others.


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## keithrf900 (25 Apr 2009)

Get the clampers after them


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## Purple (26 Apr 2009)

grooney said:


> I just feel that some people are very self obsessed and have an inability to think of others and how their actions could negatively affect others.


At least they keep those bloody trouble making wheelchair owners out of the area... nothing but trouble that lot.


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