# Cars driving in bus lanes



## DirectDevil (16 Dec 2016)

A little rant to let off steam and to wonder if it is just me.

I hate people who drive in bus lanes where there is absolutely no valid reason for them to be there.

I accept that you might always have an emergency but there could not be that many people with urgency justifying use of the bus lane.

I sometimes think that there is an element of the attitude that "roads are for ordinary plebs" but bus lanes are for special people like them......

The even bigger irritation is where they drive in the lane for about 5 kilometres with a left hand indicator operating with obviously no intention of turning. The N11 between UCD and Stillorgan - going south - in the late afternoon is a classic spot for that. Only ever saw AGS pull 3 people for that in about 10 years. Fair play, it was the same Garda doing three in a row....

And finally, I really hate them when you want to turn left and enter the transition zone at the break in the lane only to find one of these idiots lashing up the inside in the lane. That is the unreasonable bit that irks me.

Grrrr..........


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## Duke of Marmalade (16 Dec 2016)

We've all been there, especially that final point.

But actually I am amazed at the level of compliance with Lána Bus.  When it was announced that they would be introduced I estimated compliance would be about 75% but my experience is that it is around 105%  Yes, people "comply" even when it is not required like on Sundays or after 7.  I would put non compliance at about 1%.

The no smoking thing was similar, I was amazed at the overnight level of compliance with that law.

But one law which seems to me to have a very low compliance rate is the speed limit.  The Duke has the dubious honour of having accumulated more than his fair share of penalty points, most for inadvertently exceeding 60 on that very N11 stretch you mention.

It leaves the Duke as currently possibly the most obedient adherent to the speed limit around, leading to really embarrassing situations as I hold up queues of impatient motorists who are obviously less endowed with pen points.  I wonder is there a bumper sticker available which says "Very Sorry But I Have X Penalty Points".


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## dereko1969 (20 Dec 2016)

Duke, the N11 has a reasonably decent compliance level but the rest of the city it's very poor. Cycling out from city centre to Donnybrook there are always a good number of cars in the bus lane and also on the Rock Road, very annoying.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2016)

The bit I don't understand is how something as clear as this is allowed to continue. 

This is a deliberate public skipping of the queue which disadvantages the vast majority of compliant drivers. 

Why not just impose an instant one month ban on any driver doing it?  It would be pretty much eliminated overnight and the 99% compliant drivers would win out. 

Brendan


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## Steven Barrett (22 Dec 2016)

DirectDevil said:


> I sometimes think that there is an element of the attitude that "roads are for ordinary plebs" but bus lanes are for special people like them......



That's it exactly. You especially see it when there's a traffic jam, cars just speeding up the bus lane "traffic jams are for the little people". 

It's the same with people parking on double yellow lines and clearways. Those rules only apply to the plebs. You get it all the time outside the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford. Thanks to the non existent traffic plan in the area, that place is a real bottleneck in the evenings. Cars picking up people from the hospital won't pay the €2 in the car park and will block a busy road, where there is a clearway.


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## odyssey06 (22 Dec 2016)

There are some places such as turning left from clontarf road onto alfie byrne road, where if you don't get into the bus lane 100 metres back you won't be able to merge in at the proper transition zone as it is bumper to bumper... So I think there are some places where bus lanes have been jammed in and are unsuitable.

General level of compliance is very good, but there are some chancers (and they are probably the same people responsible for a lot of anti social road behaviour) who dodge in an out of bus lanes especially where 1 lane road splits into a 2 lane with a bus lane then merges back into 1. They are what penalty points were invented for. Unmarked traffic corps vehicles should be cruising around looking out fot them.


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## Ceist Beag (22 Dec 2016)

+1 Brendan. Some drivers act very differently when in a car to how they would behave if they had to stand in a queue. They would never dream of skipping a queue right to the top there but somehow with bus lanes they see no problem doing it. And you can be sure most compliant drivers are hoping they get caught! 
But as the Duke says, I'm also surprised at the number of drivers who still comply during hours when the bus lanes are open for everyone (i.e. those bus lanes which have the signs saying from 7am-7pm). Maybe it's just a case that many don't read the small print!


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## Laramie (22 Dec 2016)

As a regular N11 motorist, what gets me is the guy driving along the bus lane for ages. He then decides to put on his indicator to get back in to the non bus lane because he sees a bus ahead blocking his way. Unfortunately some idiot allows him back in to the lane and makes space for him.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2016)

odyssey06 said:


> So I think there are some places where bus lanes have been jammed in and are unsuitable.



Agreed. Or maybe there should be a variation to the bus lane so that those genuinely turning left, can enter the bus lane from 100m back?



odyssey06 said:


> especially where 1 lane road splits into a 2 lane with a bus lane then merges back into 1.



When I am driving out along the Merrion Road as I approach the bottom of Booterstown Avenue, the bus lane disappears and reappears after the traffic lights.  I presumed that this is to get more traffic through on each traffic light sequence.  Are you saying that a car is not allowed into the inside lane?  Or is that only for those turning into the car park? 

Brendan


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## Ceist Beag (22 Dec 2016)

Laramie said:


> As a regular N11 motorist, what gets me is the guy driving along the bus lane for ages. He then decides to put on his indicator to get back in to the non bus lane because he sees a bus ahead blocking his way. Unfortunately some idiot allows him back in to the lane and makes space for him.


Whilst I agree with your sentiment Laramie, it may well be the case that the "idiot" you refer to takes a lighter view of the situation and thinks life is too short to get all wound up about these things. You don't want to be the guy right behind the driver who lets the car in who is right on their bumper, fuming, do you?


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## odyssey06 (22 Dec 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> When I am driving out along the Merrion Road as I approach the bottom of Booterstown Avenue, the bus lane disappears and reappears after the traffic lights.  I presumed that this is to get more traffic through on each traffic light sequence.  Are you saying that a car is not allowed into the inside lane?  Or is that only for those turning into the car park?



I was thinking more of a straight stretch of road - such as the Howth Road from Killester to Harry Byrnes where the bus lane appears and disappears.
I'm not sure if the intention of your example is to get more cars through the sequence... I suspect it was intended only for left turners into the car park \ side road.
On certain junctions with slow sequencing, I have gone through them in the inside lane then back out into the bus lane, but not when the regular lane is jammers.


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## Cervelo (22 Dec 2016)

While I do agree with the OP, there are certain situations where you should be allowed to travel in the bus lane and a perfect example of this is what happened to me yesterday
I was heading from Churchtown to Goatstown via the Dundrum bridge, the traffic was backed up to the Bottle Tower pub,where I join the line of traffic.
5 minutes later I had traveled 100 yards to the next traffic lights, so I jumped into the bus lane and traveled down to Dundrum bridge, where I found myself been the only car going on straight on to Goatstown.
From what I could see all other traffic was turning right heading towards the Dundrum shopping center.


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## dereko1969 (22 Dec 2016)

Cervelo said:


> While I do agree with the OP, there are certain situations where you should be allowed to travel in the bus lane and a perfect example of this is what happened to me yesterday
> I was heading from Churchtown to Goatstown via the Dundrum bridge, the traffic was backed up to the Bottle Tower pub,where I join the line of traffic.
> 5 minutes later I had traveled 100 yards to the next traffic lights, so I jumped into the bus lane and traveled down to Dundrum bridge, where I found myself been the only car going on straight on to Goatstown.
> From what I could see all other traffic was turning right heading towards the Dundrum shopping center.


But sure that's everyone's excuse for breaking the law


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2016)

What Cervelo did seems reasonable. He reduced the traffic for other people. 

My objection is to the people who drive along on the inside lane and push other people back in the queue as a result.

Brendan


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## dereko1969 (22 Dec 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> What Cervelo did seems reasonable. He reduced the traffic for other people.
> 
> My objection is to the people who drive along on the inside lane and push other people back in the queue as a result.
> 
> Brendan


Cervelo only found out that everyone was turning right after breaking the law, if that hadn't been the problem what would the excuse have been? What if there was an accident ahead?
People driving in bus lanes which also happen to be bike lanes for the most part generally drive quicker than they should to avoid getting caught, this has a tendency to lead them to pass very close and too quickly beside cyclists which has an impact on cyclist safety.

Everyone always finds that they are the exception to the rule - rules are for other people.


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## Brendan Burgess (22 Dec 2016)

Hi Derek

Maybe I didn't understand Cervelo's point. But I don't see anything wrong with entering an empty bus lane which reduces a traffic queue e.g. entering it 100m before the end to turn left. 

Agree fully with the bit about cyclists. If a driver is in the bus lane when there is a cyclist in it, the ban should be increased to two months.

Brendan


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## dereko1969 (22 Dec 2016)

Who knows, but Cervelo couldn't see the bottom of the road from those traffic lights and presumed that s/he'd get away with it, so went ahead. I think you're mis-reading the post, they had gone 100m beyond the Bottle Tower to the next set of lights, they weren't 100m from the turn to Dundrum, in those circumstances it may well be sensible to take the bus lane providing no buses or cyclists are using it. The fact that the delay was caused by a huge number of vehicles turning right is, to me, beside the point.


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## Cervelo (23 Dec 2016)

dereko1969 said:


> Who knows, but Cervelo couldn't see the bottom of the road from those traffic lights and presumed that s/he'd get away with it, so went ahead. I think you're mis-reading the post, they had gone 100m beyond the Bottle Tower to the next set of lights, they weren't 100m from the turn to Dundrum, in those circumstances it may well be sensible to take the bus lane providing no buses or cyclists are using it. The fact that the delay was caused by a huge number of vehicles turning right is, to me, beside the point.



You are of course right that I broke the law but in my defence there were two reasons for my decision to use the empty bus lane
1: My local knowledge of the area and how cars turnig right at Dundrum bridge can cause a backlog of traffic along the churchtown road
2: I had traveled from goatstown to Nutgrove via the Churchtown road 15 minutes earlier and saw what the cause of the backlog was

The point I was trying to make wasn't that I broke the law but that there should be certain circumstances when you can use a bus lane, like turning left at the next exit or when there is traffic backlog like the example I gave
Brendan quite rightly made the point that there is no logical reason in me joining and adding to a traffic backlog which was only going to get worse when there is a empty bus lane beside me.


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## roker (26 Dec 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The bit I don't understand is how something as clear as this is allowed to continue.
> 
> This is a deliberate public skipping of the queue which disadvantages the vast majority of compliant drivers.
> 
> ...


It needs a certain amount of experience of the road to be legal, OK if you do it every day, but for stranger it can be difficult thinking ahead


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## Páid (3 Jan 2017)

For those of you driving in bus lanes here's how not to do it.

https://youtu.be/TvlledB7hdI

Driving in bus lane - 1 point (Failure to comply with traffic lane markings)
Failure to yield at the yield marking at the end of the bus lane - 3 points (Failure to yield right of way at a yield sign/yield line)
Dirty number plate - 0 points (05-D-88161)
Using an indicator while driving a BMW - 0 points


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## thedaddyman (3 Jan 2017)

Keep an eye out for signs saying "bus lane not in use". For example, if you are going to or coming from Dundrum Shopping centre via the m50 there are 2 such lanes marked as "not in use" but most people don't realize it so it's very handy.

Some other bus lanes are not "full-time" bus lanes


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## trasneoir (3 Jan 2017)

DirectDevil said:


> Grrrr..........


That sensation is bad for your state of mind and your physical health. It's also easy to eliminate:

What we think of as our minds are (at least mostly) moist computers, with a bag of behavioral tricks that are (at least mostly) _good enough_ to keep us alive and unharmed. We operate on learned patterns and heuristics much more than on active intelligent "decisions". This is never more apparent than in traffic. When you see an incompetent/inconsiderate driver, don't think of them as a _bad _moral agent but as a defective robot - just another class of road hazard.

Bip the horn to report the error. Peer pressure works if it's delivered consistently. 
Breathe. Rejoice in your good karma.


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## MrEarl (4 Jan 2017)

DirectDevil said:


> A little rant to let off steam and to wonder if it is just me.
> 
> I hate people who drive in bus lanes where there is absolutely no valid reason for them to be there.



Has it ever occured to you that this may be people making the decision to use the roads that their taxes pay for, given there are no buses in those bus lanes for much of the time ?

If Dublin Bus put a bus in the bus lane every minute or two, then you will quickly convince me that it's good use of the limited road network. However, put a bus in the bus lane every 10-15 minutes (as is the case, even during peak hours on some northside routes) and I will continue to make use of the bus lane to help me get to where I want to go 

Our city roads are a limited resource and at the moment, the private car remains the principal method of transport for most people.  As such, we should make the best use of the resources we have and until the bus lanes are busy with lots more buses, then you can't expect motorists to simply leave those lanes unused while stuck in heavy traffic.



Brendan Burgess said:


> The bit I don't understand is how something as clear as this is allowed to continue.
> 
> This is a deliberate public skipping of the queue which disadvantages the vast majority of compliant drivers.
> 
> Why not just impose an instant one month ban on any driver doing it?  It would be pretty much eliminated overnight and the 99% compliant drivers would win out.



If those badly behaved motorists were to be removed from their cars for a month, would you not be concerned that they might join the ranks of the cyclists and become even more badly behaved (given the old cyclists seems to go unchecked by the Gardai etc.) ?  



odyssey06 said:


> There are some places such as turning left from clontarf road onto alfie byrne road, where if you don't get into the bus lane 100 metres back you won't be able to merge in at the proper transition zone as it is bumper to bumper... So I think there are some places where bus lanes have been jammed in and are unsuitable..



Good point.

Then add to that the frustration of seeing only one bus every 8-11 minutes using the bus lane during peak hours each morning (No. 130 Bus) and ask yourself, is that bus lane the best use of our limited road space on a majour artery into the city from the northside of Dublin ?



Páid said:


> For those of you driving in bus lanes here's how not to do it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/TvlledB7hdI
> 
> ...



ROFLMAO


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## trasneoir (4 Jan 2017)

MrEarl said:


> the private car remains the principal method of transport for most people.


I'm not sure that this is true, _in the parts of the country where bus lanes are prevalent_.
Google suggests that dublin bus carries 350-400k people per day.



MrEarl said:


> we should make the best use of the resources we have


The luas' cobbles must be brutal for the suspension 



MrEarl said:


> Our city roads are a limited resource


The limiting factor in our cities' traffic flow isn't road capacity, it's _intersection _capacity. Getting passengers through intersections is the game, and a full bus is _phenomenally _efficient at it. A busy 12m dublin bus is worth 250m of bumper-to-bumper commuter cars. If you want to make a city hum, you fill as many buses as you can, and you fire them through the network as fast as you can. Put cowcatchers on the front if you have to.

Even so, bus lanes stop short of busy intersections - flow is rarely restricted by leaving a "useful" stretch of lane empty. At such, empty bus lanes have little/no impact on flow, but they can return huge gains when they deliver buses to intersections more quickly.



MrEarl said:


> only one bus every ten minutes


Are there no taxis/bikes at your end of town?

There's a chicken and egg situation - making buses/bikes faster takes commuter cars off the road. On the other hand, if my bus is going to be stuck behind cars all day, I might as well throw my own car into the fray and idle in a fancier seat.


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## Purple (4 Jan 2017)

MrEarl said:


> Has it ever occured to you that this may be people making the decision to use the roads that their taxes pay for, given there are no buses in those bus lanes for much of the time ?


 Are there any other laws you think you should be able to break because of the taxes you pay?
Do you elbow your way to the front of the queue in the A&E department?

You may not like the law but it is the law. Maybe you could get some washed out Trade Unionist looking for a spot back in the limelight and launch a national protest movement to get  rid of bus lanes because using the road is a human right?

Only Buses, taxi's emergency vehicles and SUV's are allowed to use bus lanes (I presume SUV's are since they seem to use them all the time).


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## peteb (4 Jan 2017)

Purple said:


> Maybe you could get some washed out Trade Unionist looking for a spot back in the limelight and launch a national protest movement to get  rid of bus lanes because using the road is a human right?


Ouch!


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## MrEarl (4 Jan 2017)

Purple said:


> Are there any other laws you think you should be able to break because of the taxes you pay? ....



Sure, others that I just think I will break because I don't agree with.. but feel it's best not to take the thread off topic


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## Purple (5 Jan 2017)

MrEarl said:


> Sure, others that I just think I will break because I don't agree with.. but feel it's best not to take the thread off topic


 Good answer.


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## DirectDevil (5 Jan 2017)

MrEarl said:


> Has it ever occured to you that this may be people making the decision to use the roads that their taxes pay for, given there are no buses in those bus lanes for much of the time ? SNIP SNIP ROFLMAO



It has occurred to me and I do get your point as, at times, I look longingly at those blank road spaces to my left.

However, what also occurs to me is that I am also bound to obey the law as are they. The meritorious point would be lost entirely on the Garda who might ping me for being where I have no authority to be


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## The Edge (6 Jan 2017)

I read recently that cars with diesel engines are much worse for the environment than their petrol engined counterparts. And yet we have a situation in this country due to tax reasons/fashion/trends/'de environment' whereby 90% of new car sales in this country in recent years (and even in the UK, well over 50%) are the accursed daysuls (I understand buses also run on diesel, but in their defense are ferrying largish numbers of commuters per bus, compared to the motor cars).

Human beings are funny!


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## Cervelo (7 Jan 2017)

The Edge said:


> I read recently that cars with diesel engines are much worse for the environment than their petrol engined counterparts. And yet we have a situation in this country due to tax reasons/fashion/trends/'de environment' whereby 90% of new car sales in this country in recent years (and even in the UK, well over 50%) are the accursed daysuls (I understand buses also run on diesel, but in their defense are ferrying largish numbers of commuters per bus, compared to the motor cars).
> 
> Human beings are funny!



iirc Paris, Madrid, Athens and Mexico city are in the process of banning diesel cars from their cities by 2025 !!


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## ixus (7 Jan 2017)

I love driving down certain bus lanes between 10 am & 12 when they're open to all. Cruise by all the motorists who don't pay attention and think I'm in the wrong. Probably hoping I get pulled.

Work from home in the morning and drive in at this time. Much less stressful than the peak time commute.


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## MrEarl (9 Jan 2017)

The Edge said:


> I read recently that cars with diesel engines are much worse for the environment than their petrol engined counterparts. And yet we have a situation in this country due to tax reasons/fashion/trends/'de environment' whereby 90% of new car sales in this country in recent years (and even in the UK, well over 50%) are the accursed daysuls (I understand buses also run on diesel, but in their defense are ferrying largish numbers of commuters per bus, compared to the motor cars).



It seems to me that Ireland could have amended the road tax rates in respect of modern diesel engine cars in the last budget (to bring them back into line with petrol engines, if not raise them above petrol engine cars), but didn't.... despite being a country that apparently cares about the environment, is supposed to be trying to reach the 20-20-20 targets etc.



The Edge said:


> ...Human beings are funny!



Not least, our politicans


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## Leper (9 Jan 2017)

Hey Guys! Try the bus lanes in Cork city.  There are signs on nearly all of them indicating that the Bus Lines exist only Mon - Fri and between the times 7.30am - 9.30am and 4.30pm - 6.30pm.  Guess What!  Very few drivers know this and you got guys playing funfare dodgems outside of the times rising life and limb and of course getting out of their cars at the next traffic lights and lecturing the drivers who are driving perfectly.


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