# Special Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrageous



## indebtedgal (15 Jul 2009)

I have just been told by a friend who works in the HSE that she is applying for a career break of 5 years in order to stay at home with her kids. 

Great you may say, good for her!

However, she is entitled to 1/3rd of her salary for the duration. 

Another friend who is a civil servant confirms that is also the case for them. 

My friend who works for the HSE says that the break will categorically be offered to her because it will involve too much paperwork for her boss to turn it down. 

I am incensed. The same girl has only worked about 3 months since her 1st child was born, she was out sick for the duration of her 2nd pregnancy because as she says herself she "couldn't be bothered" going in when she was going to get paid anyway. 

Yes she is my friend but I can't find it in my heart to say that's great for you, not when there are people on trollys, not when there are kids waiting for treatment, not when our country is on its knees and we are all taking pay cuts. 

I am shortly returning to work after maternity leave and i am damn glad of a job to go back to.

I am incensed that someone could take this time off and get money for it. I as a taxpayer am essentially paying her to stay at home an rear her kids while I will have to leave mine every morning to make ends meet. 

What are peoples opinions on this?


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## Shawady (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*

As far as I am aware it is for 3 years and it is 1/3 of salary up to a max of 12,500 per annum


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## liaconn (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*

This is a new, once off scheme introduced as part of the Govt's attempts to cut back on staff numbers. You get a third of your salary -up to €12,000- and are not allowed to take up any further employment in the State during the three year period. It was introduced by one of the Banks a while back, the DITs are also bringing it in and I think other places might be following suit. It is no more expensive on the State than making people redundant and then having to pay them their statutory redundancy and jobseeker's allowance.  There is absolutely no guarantee that you will be able to return to your original place of employment, but will have to slot in wherever there is a genuine vacancy after the three year period.


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## liaconn (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*

ps If you don't mind me saying so, your friend sounds like the kind of lazy wagon who gives Public Servants a bad name.


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## Ron Burgundy (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*

PTSB are doing a scheme which is something the same.

Not all civil servants are the same and my wife is 35 weeks gone and has been out 5 days in that 35 weeks and that was on medical advice.


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## Bill Struth (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*



indebtedgal said:


> i am in shock, i have just been told by a friend who works in the hse that she is applying for a career break of 5 years in order to stay at home with her kids. great you may say, good for her! however, she is entitled to 1/3rd of her salary for the duration. another friend who is a civil servant confirms that is also the case for them. the friend who works for the hse says that the break will categorically be offered to her becuse it will involve too much paperwork for her boss to turn it down. tbh, i am incensed. the same girl has only worked about 3 months since her 1st child was born, she was out sick for the duration of her 2nd pregnancy because as she says herself she "couldn't be bothered" going in when she was going to get paid anyway. yes she is my friend but i can't find it in my heart to say thats great for you, not when there are people on trollys, not when there are kids waiting for treatment. not when our country is on its knees and we are all taking pay cuts. i am shortly returning to work after maternity leave and i am damn glad of a job to go back to. i am incensed that someone could take this time off and get money for it. i as a taxpayer am essentially paying her to stay at home an rear her kids while i will have to leave mine every morning to make ends meet. what are peoples opinions on this?


 
Yet more ill-informed public service bashing.

Groundhog day on AAM!

Go and have a moan at your local Zanu FF TD, they introduced the scheme.


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## Howitzer (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*



indebtedgal said:


> ....


So what did you say to her?

There's little point moaning here about it when you had the opportunity to say something to the person in question yourself.


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## Purple (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*



Howitzer said:


> So what did you say to her?
> 
> There's little point moaning here about it when you had the opportunity to say something to the person in question yourself.


Good question.
The career break idea is a good one (very little net cost to the state), abusing sick leave is a different issue. The two should not be lumped together.
Mrs Purple is pregnant. She will be taking two weeks maternity leave and then going back part time (25 hours) for two weeks before resuming work full time. The joys of being self employed.


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## DrMoriarty (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*

The details of the scheme are available here (.pdf document).


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## BoscoTalking (15 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*



liaconn said:


> ps if you don't mind me saying so, your friend sounds like the kind of lazy wagon who gives public servants a bad name.


+1


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## Ciaraella (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: is this widely known?/*



Bill Struth said:


> Yet more ill-informed public service bashing.


 
Agreed. When PTSB introduced the scheme it was described as innovative and creative but god forbid the public service could actually come up with something good. The bottom line is that it is cheaper to pay someone €12,000 a year to take a career break than to pay their salary/redundancy/dole.


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## csirl (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

The HSE scheme is not the Civil Service scheme - there are no civil servants employed in the HSE. Remember that there is huge difference between civil servants and public servants.


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## Sunny (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

There is nothing wrong with the scheme but I can't see what it will achieve long term. People compare it to PTSB but in their case, they have seen a massive drop off in business but like in any cycle will probably see things pick up by the time people are due to return from the career breaks. If not, they won't hesitate to let people go. 
The Civil and Public Sectors are offering a carrer break but one assumes there has been no drop off in demand for services so they obviously feel like they carry out the same work with less people. So why offer a career break? What is going to change in two years when it is time for all these people to come back? We will just go back to being overstaffed again in certain quarters unless they are hoping that natural wastage over the next two years will create space for the returning employees. 
That requires very clever human resource management. Something the public sector is not well known for expecially with the Unions throwing obstacles in the way.


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## Shawady (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Sunny said:


> There is nothing wrong with the scheme but I can't see what it will achieve long term. People compare it to PTSB but in their case, they have seen a massive drop off in business but like in any cycle will probably see things pick up by the time people are due to return from the career breaks. If not, they won't hesitate to let people go.
> The Civil and Public Sectors are offering a carrer break but one assumes there has been no drop off in demand for services so they obviously feel like they carry out the same work with less people. So why offer a career break? What is going to change in two years when it is time for all these people to come back? We will just go back to being overstaffed again in certain quarters unless they are hoping that natural wastage over the next two years will create space for the returning employees.
> That requires very clever human resource management. Something the public sector is not well known for expecially with the Unions throwing obstacles in the way.


 
The career break has to be for 3 years and the department can wait up to year (unpaid) to give someone their job back so it is likely that most people that take this will be gone for 4 years.
The goverment is probably hoping that with natural wastage and early retirement schemes, the people leaving over the next 4 years will greatly outnumber the numbers due back from career break. The government is keen to get more flexibility in PS/CS so someone coming back from career break may not definitely get back to their old job.
I'm sure it won't run 100% smoothly but overall it is worth doing.


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## Sunny (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Shawady said:


> The career break has to be for 3 years and the department can wait up to year (unpaid) to give someone their job back so it is likely that most people that take this will be gone for 4 years.
> The goverment is probably hoping that with natural wastage and early retirement schemes, the people leaving over the next 4 years will greatly outnumber the numbers due back from career break. The government is keen to get more flexibility in PS/CS so someone coming back from career break may not definitely get back to their old job.
> I'm sure it won't run 100% smoothly but overall it is worth doing.


 
Fair enough but can you really see the Unions supporting that? Aren't they already opposing it in the HSE?


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## liaconn (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

I agree. There will be instant savings for the next four years and a number of people on career breaks won't come back. It also gives the Govt a chance to streamline and Departments and Agencies a chance to see, over the next few years, which areas can operate on reduced staff.


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## Ciaraella (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Sunny said:


> What is going to change in two years when it is time for all these people to come back?


 
well i'd imagine there'll be a percentage that won't come back to work. You can't work in Ireland during the break so there may be people who emigrate and don't come back. Some may re-train or re-educate themselves and then take on a different job. Some people may have families and decide not to come back to work. And meanwhile during the next few difficult years the wage bill is lowered. In three years if even 3/4 of the staff come back the government funds will hopefully be in better shape to pay them.


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## TheBlock (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

RTE offering similar career break for two years and a maximum lump sum of €20,000. Looks like a good idea for anyone planning on travelling or wants some time off with young children.


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## Sunny (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

I have nothing against the scheme but what I hear about the PTSB scheme, the majority of people who took it up were young lowly paid employees who just wanted to head off and travel or something. Apparently, they didn't get the numbers of middle management etc that they were looking for so didn't save as much money as they thought. Not hard to imagine the same happening here.


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## Shawady (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Sunny said:


> I have nothing against the scheme but what I hear about the PTSB scheme, the majority of people who took it up were young lowly paid employees who just wanted to head off and travel or something. Apparently, they didn't get the numbers of middle management etc that they were looking for so didn't save as much money as they thought. Not hard to imagine the same happening here.


 
Itwill probably most appeal to people with young children that without cost of childcare will be no worse off financially because of the 12,500 a year.
I think the take up has only been 300 in the civil service, which is roughly 1%.
Not huge but I suppose at this stage very cent saved helps.


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## Kine (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

From what I've hear, many people who applied for the PTSB scheme were unable to actually get it. Also, very very few were approved it. Very low take-up.


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## Paulone (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*

Getting back to the HSE issue and unlike other areas of the public/civil service - all this career break thing is currently suspended there. HSE staff can apply for it and the early retirement scheme - but there's no indication if or when they'll be offered it.

I read that the unions dug in their heels about members being asked to take on the responsibilities of colleagues who were out on the scheme. I read also that Prof. Drumm was worried that he'd lose experienced staff to the schemes and that this would have a negative impact - I believe that a career break etc., is not on offer to certain staff and for the rest, it can be refused if that person is thought to be indispensable! 

Regarding the OP's outrage, she could point out to her friend that there's no guarantees the HSE will reintroduce the scheme, and if they do, there's also no guarantees she'll be accepted for it, so her best-laid plans mightn't work.


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## becky (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Paulone said:


> Getting back to the HSE issue and unlike other areas of the public/civil service - all this career break thing is currently suspended there. HSE staff can apply for it and the early retirement scheme - but there's no indication if or when they'll be offered it.
> 
> I read that the unions dug in their heels about members being asked to take on the responsibilities of colleagues who were out on the scheme. I read also that Prof. Drumm was worried that he'd lose experienced staff to the schemes and that this would have a negative impact - I believe that a career break etc., is not on offer to certain staff and for the rest, it can be refused if that person is thought to be indispensable!
> 
> Regarding the OP's outrage, she could point out to her friend that there's no guarantees the HSE will reintroduce the scheme, and if they do, there's also no guarantees she'll be accepted for it, so her best-laid plans mightn't work.


 
There is a list of of grades its not applicable to to but they have the option of applying for the normal career break.

A lot of people who have applied for the incentive break not getting approval because their manager isn't guaranteed a back fill, not so much that they are indispensable.  Don't think anyone is indispensable.


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## AgathaC (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



Paulone said:


> Getting back to the HSE issue and unlike other areas of the public/civil service - all this career break thing is currently suspended there. HSE staff can apply for it and the early retirement scheme - but there's no indication if or when they'll be offered it.
> 
> Regarding the OP's outrage, she could point out to her friend that there's no guarantees the HSE will reintroduce the scheme, and if they do, there's also no guarantees she'll be accepted for it, so her best-laid plans mightn't work.


 So am I right in thinking that the OP's friend has no guarantee that she will get this career break?


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## RonanC (16 Jul 2009)

*Re: Special Civil Service Incentive Career Break Scheme as applied in the HSE. Outrag*



AgathaC said:


> So am I right in thinking that the OP's friend has no guarantee that she will get this career break?


 
Thats correct. The application has to be approved by the Principal Officer first and then by the Departments Personnel Officer. 

I know of a few cases where applications have been refused by the Principal Officer due to staffing constraints and no replacement cover provided but Personnel could still approve them.


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