# Tax Back on Management Fees ?



## Teknon (26 Aug 2008)

Is it possible to claim tax back on Management Fees ?  I know this area isn't regulated, is anyone aware of plans by the Government to regulate Management Companies ?  I'm looking at buying a 1 bed apartment in a very nice complex but the management fee of €1,700 is putting me off !!

Thanks


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## dem_syhp (26 Aug 2008)

No, unless it is an investment property.  

As your ppr, you can claim on the portion that is for refuse collection but that's it.


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## shesells (26 Aug 2008)

As stated previously as an owner occupier you get tax relief only on the portion of the fee that applies to refuse, if refuse is included - which it's not in all developments. If you were renting the unit out (as an investment property) then the entire fee is tax deductible.

Be aware that management fees tend to go up and not down so it mightn't be long before than €1700 becomes €2k.

Having said all that our fees for a 1 bed apartment are around €800 so yours seems expensive.


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## ClubMan (27 Aug 2008)

dem_syhp said:


> No, unless it is an investment property.
> 
> As your ppr, you can claim on the portion that is for refuse collection but that's it.


And other service charges such as water etc. if applicable? No?


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

Could you?  It's a bit hypothetical as we don't pay for it (yet).  To be honest, it's not one I've thought about.  

Really it's no different to a standard house - I don't believe that you can claim for services there?  But again, since we're not paying for water yet.... are there any other services you can claim for in a house? 

The only difference is we're paying for a different level of service - that is, someone cuts our grass, and most people in a house would cut their own.  But they could pay someone do to the task.  No reason we should get extra or different tax allowances - though I wouldn't complain


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## ClubMan (27 Aug 2008)

dem_syhp said:


> Really it's no different to a standard house - I don't believe that you can claim for services there?


[broken link removed]





> Service Charges which qualify for relief
> 
> All service charges paid to:
> 
> ...


I thought that some domestic properties were charged for water supply etc.?


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

That would be my Dublin centric thinking - I don't have to pay, so of course no one else does


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## marnif (8 Sep 2008)

Hello,

Thanks for letting me know about tax relief regarding refuse. I have asked a well known property management company regarding this - will no reply.

I am going to check with the revenue regarding how to claim as we are only given total refuse costs for the year for the whole estate.


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## Brooklyn (9 Sep 2008)

marnif said:


> I am going to check with the revenue regarding how to claim as we are only given total refuse costs for the year for the whole estate.



Your management company can give you a breakdown (in writing) of how much of your fees went to refuse charges.


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## cinders (9 Sep 2008)

shesells said:


> Be aware that management fees tend to go up and not down so it mightn't be long before than €1700 becomes €2k.


 
Not neccessarily, our fees have come down twice in the last 3 years, though I reckon they may go up again next year. 

€1700 does seem expensive for a 1 bed though - lifts, security gates, if its a small development can all add up to a higher fee.


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## AKA (11 Sep 2008)

Is the management company well run and solvent? Probably not if the fees are €1700. I'd approach someone else in the development and find out if they have had an AGM, is there a residents association and anyone who liases with the agent - i.e. have the owners of the apartments taken over directorship. Otherwise the agent just does what they want and charges what they want.

Your management fee includes:
Bin collection - €225 should be adequate though our agent charges €275 per unit
Buildings insurance and sinking fund - €300 - €500 per unit should cover this. You will have to get contents insurance at approx €100 on top of the €1700.
Grass cutting - a contractor can do this for about €65 per unit, our agent charges 3x this.
Window cleaning - can't recall offhand how much this is per unit - normally not carried out by agent unless the residents request it even though they pay for it.
I'm not sure how relevant it is but the lift should be guaranteed for a number of years if it is new. How much do they allocate for an annual service?
Cleaning of common areas - carried out infrequently from all apartments I've visited recently
Maintenance - gutter cleaning etc. if applicable

€1700 is very high for the above. Is there a concierge service or full time gardener for this? How may units? You may be able to get tax relief on the bin collection but I don't think you get this on other elements of the service as others don't get tax relief on the above items.


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## cinders (11 Sep 2008)

AKA said:


> Is the management company well run and solvent? Probably not if the fees are €1700.
> 
> I'm not sure how relevant it is but the lift should be guaranteed for a number of years if it is new. How much do they allocate for an annual service?
> 
> €1700 is very high for the above.


 
Aka, I wouldn't take it that a management company is not well run because the fees are €1700. The number of units in the complex and how many of them have been sold, the level of security (e.g. electric gates, security cameras), at what stage the complex is at re: completion will all be factors contributing to the mangement fee. 

Regardless of any guarantee on the lifts, the budget should take into account future expenditure that will be needed on the lift to put into a sinking fund for the lift maintenance. 

Teknon, ask for a copy of the budget to see what is covered in the Management Fee. Also check the lease to see if you are required to pay for lift maintenance (assuming there are any in the complex) as you may be required to contribute even if you are on the ground floor & can't avail of the lift! Sorry, I seem to be straying off topic re: mangement fees & tax!!


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## rmelly (11 Sep 2008)

AKA said:


> Is the management company well run and solvent? Probably not if the fees are €1700.


 
? Can you explain the logic behind this statement?


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## AKA (12 Sep 2008)

rmelly said:


> ? Can you explain the logic behind this statement?



Sometimes the budget is proposed by the agent who overcharges by multiple factors, often for work that is not carried out.  

The agent/residents should get quotes to ensure that services obtained are a fair price and do not lead to an overinflated management fee.

If the residents have decided to add in additional items - are these ongoing items or continual charges - security camera installation vs operation.

When you get a copy of the budget do you see evidence that this work is being carried out - you could ask another neighbour what they think.

How much is going into the sinking fund? - the building should be covered for 10 years under Homebond.


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