# inheriting credit card debt



## Jane73 (17 Jun 2007)

Was wondering if it is possible to inherit credit card debt from my father?
He died 5/6 weeks ago and I was recently informed by tsb that he has outstanding debt on his credit card. We are waiting for death certificate before officially cancelling his affairs. 

He left no estate but his pension is still being paid into his bank account. The bank said they would use whatever is in this account to clear credit card debt and would expect next of kin to pay the rest.

our concerns now is that social welfare will look for pension money back and that we will be liable to bank and them

Has anyone come accross this before


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## steph1 (17 Jun 2007)

Was he paying any payment protection plan on his credit card you could check if he was by looking at the statements.


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Jun 2007)

HI Jane

I would very much doubt if you could inherit debt. 

You should notify the Department and have his pension stopped immediately. 

If he has any assets, the estate should pay his debts out of his assets. 

The family is under no moral or legal obligation to pay any debts which are not covered by assets. If you feel pressurised by the bank, then you should complain and make a formal complaint to the Ombudsman, if you are not happy with the response.

Brendan


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## athens2004 (17 Jun 2007)

I think when a person dies the next of kin still get 6 weeks pension but you do have to inform the dept. of social welfare of his death.


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## bond-007 (17 Jun 2007)

I have found that the PTSB are very heavy handed when chasing relatives of deceased debtors. When my brother in law died PTSB sent a debt collector to the door within a week of the death demanding that the family pay debts of the deceased.

If there are no assets they cannot chase you for the money. They seem to be trying to intimidate you into paying. Seek legal advice urgently.


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## gipimann (17 Jun 2007)

Jane, I'm sorry for your loss.

Regarding the pension - payment for 6 weeks after death only applies if there is a qualified adult increase (payment for adult dependant/spouse) on the pension.  The full pension is paid to the surviving spouse for 6 weeks.
In certain circumstances, the deceased person's pension can be paid for 6 weeks if the spouse had a pension in his/her own right.  This depends on the types of pension being paid and can be checked out on www.welfare.ie 
If there is no surviving spouse, the pension must be returned to the Dept of Social and Family Affairs.


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## z108 (17 Jun 2007)

Sorry about your dad, 

I thought unsecured debts especially credit card debt died with you unless they are secured on assets ?

It's impossible to be legally responsible for the debts of another person unless you signed up as a guarantor. It sounds like PTSB are watching too many Sopranos episodes. 



athens2004 said:


> I think when a person dies the next of kin still get 6 weeks pension but you do have to inform the dept. of social welfare of his death.



If your dad has no estate then you dont have to worry about the bank taking anything. They will have to accept that the debt is lost to them.
It's important to move quickly, inform the department of social welfare and get them to pay the next of kin directly outside of dads bank account (if there is an entitlement) so the PTSB cant get their grubby hands on it.


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## bond-007 (17 Jun 2007)

> It sounds like PTSB are watching too many Sopranos episodes.


 It appears that they are actively employing them in their business. 

As regards the pension going into your late fathers account, the social welfare can simply reclaim the money back from the PTSB as he was not legally entitled to it. You can be rest assured that the PTSB will not benefit from it.


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Jun 2007)

If you suspect that this is a systematic practice by the ptsb, then you should report them to the Financial Regulator and not just the Ombudsman

Brendan


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## solair (17 Jun 2007)

They can only pursue the debtor's estate. They've absolutely no right to even contact family members and you've no obligation to pay them anything although they will get first call on his estate i.e. if you've inherited funds, they could pursue those.

If they do harass you, call the Gardaí, then your solicitor.


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## bond-007 (17 Jun 2007)

We were repeatedly hassled for the money to settle my late brother in laws debt to PTSB. There was no explaining to them that they could not have a cent until probate was granted and until the insurance companies released funds. Phone calls, letters and debt collectors constantly for months. In our case it took a solicitors letter and a complaint to the Gardaí to stop the harassment. 

They seem to be very unprofessional in their business.


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## solair (17 Jun 2007)

That is absolutely disgraceful behaviour. Particularly at such a traumatic time. I would really consider taking further legal advice with regards to what you can do.


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## Brendan Burgess (17 Jun 2007)

An elderly friend of mine bougth £100 worth of Australian Dollars in a Bank of Ireland branch to send to her niece for a wedding present. She was very surprised at the exceptionally enthusiastic gratitude she got from the niece, describing it as overgenerous. 

She then got a call from the branch to say that they had give her £1000 worth of AUs $ instead. They wanted her to ask the niece for the difference or said that she would have to pay it. She refused. They went after her again. The branch manager then brought her into his office on the next visit to the branch and pressurised her. 

Her son asked me what to do and as it happened I knew the home address of the bank manager. So he called on a Sunday evening to the branch manager's home and told him to leave his mother alone. Which he did. 

The ptsb staff should not be pursuing the relatives of the deceased. That is intimidation. It's none of their business. You might like to try to identify where they live and visit them. 

Brendan


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2007)

Sorry for you loss OP.  I think it's disgraceful a bank contacting you like this at this time.

The bank knows your Dad has passed away so I don't think they have the right to touch his account.  I could be wrong but one of the banking people on here would know if this is correct.  Anyway you can let social welfare fight the bank for it as you are not getting the money.   

Probably the next step you need to take is send a registered letter of complaint to the bank and why not write to one of the newspapers or Joe Duffy.  It is the height of insensitivity for them to harass you at this time and I'm sure many people would rightly be outraged at the actions of the bank.


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## ClubMan (18 Jun 2007)

Do the terms & conditions of the credit card agreement clarify what happens in the event of the card holder dieing with a credit balance outstanding? Perhaps as _PTSB _to quote chapter and verse on why they feel justified in taking this approach to the debt? Put all communications in writing. If necessary make a complaint to the bank in the first place and then, if necessary, to the _FSO _and _IFSRA_. Of course, at this time so soon after the bereavement, I would not be surprised if you did not want to expend too much time and energy on such matters while you are grieving so perhaps get a trusted friend to assist? I know that money matters and dealing with assets/banks etc. was the last thing on my mother's mind when my father died a few years ago.


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## Jane73 (18 Jun 2007)

Hello all
and many thanks for all you responses, its great to get the questions answered. I have to wait for the death cert to arrive hopefully today as its in the post. Before I formally inform tsb. Ive contacted pensions office and bank by telephone already.

My dad had no assests whatsoever (day to day person), not even to cover funeral costs. He lived abroad so expatriation costs on top of that bring that debt to E11,000. Thankfully there are 5 of us who can split the expenses so thats why we are concerned about more debts.

as regards pension, my parents are divorced so there is no dependants, we r all over 18.

Its very hard to get on with life when you cant even get financial matters sorted because of delay in death cert. At this point it seems as if money is the central theme when talking about my dad, thats not what you want to have in your mind.


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## zag (18 Jun 2007)

I know much of it has been covered, but you need to be 100% clear with the bank that the debt is not your debt and they should not contact you about it.

The debt 'belongs' to your fathers estate at this point.  I'm not sure of the detail, but I presume that whoever is executing your fathers will or carrying out probate, etc . . . represents your fathers estate.

If the bank want to pursue the debt (which is reasonable) they need to do it officially through the estate.

It is certainly not possible to inherit debt in this manner.  If his assets came to €10,000 and his debts came to €11,000 then the net effect would be NIL - no debt carried over.  If his assets came to €12,000 and his debts came to €11,000 then the net effect would be a distribution to next of kin of the remaining €1,000.

Also, from recollection, following death bank accounts are frozen (unless the account is in joint names) so there should be no possibilty for TSB to access the funds in this way once they have been notified of the death.

z


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## bond-007 (18 Jun 2007)

Would any payments to the account be returned? Eg any pension payments after the bank was notified? 



> If the bank want to pursue the debt (which is reasonable) they need to do it officially through the estate.



We told PTSB that but they were quite explicit in wanting us to pay now out of our own pocket. We gave them the name of the solicitor dealing with the estate but that did not stop the letters or calls.


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## moneyhoney (19 Jun 2007)

Jane,

I'm probably just reiterating what has been said here but unsecured debt, including cc debt, is recoverable from a person's estate. If their estate has no assets, then they can't recover it. 

I'm not a solicitor but if you want to get free legal advice, just to be 100% sure of the legal position, contact the Free Legal Advice Centre - www.flac.ie - they really offer a fantastic service.


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## solair (19 Jun 2007)

If the solicitor is the executor of the will, all calls and letters should be directed to him/her. 
They've no business with you at all and shouldn't be contacting you other than to ask for the contact details of the executor.

Contact the Financial Services Regulator :

[broken link removed]
phone : 01 4104000

Or, if you happen to be in Dublin and near College Green, call into them and bring the correspondence from PTSB.
They're located just up a bit from Starbucks.

If you get any further calls, I'd suggest that you refer them to the solicitor and hang up.


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## Jane73 (19 Jun 2007)

thanks for all the leads, havent heard back from bank yet.


kind regards


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## ClubMan (29 Jun 2007)

Not sure if it has already been referred to but [broken link removed] says (red highlighting is mine)...


> *If the deceased dies in debt
> 
> * If the deceased dies insolvent or there isn't enough money to meet the bequests made, payments from the estate are prioritised in the following order:
> 
> ...


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## Jane73 (24 Aug 2007)

I dont know if anyone is still interested but I just thought Id close this thread on a positive note.

I was in touch with TSB about sorting out the credit card debt of my late father. They released all the remaining funds in his account to go towards his funeral bill and were very polite in their response,they are also writing off his debt. So thankfully a happier ending with TSB for me

Jane 73


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## ClubMan (24 Aug 2007)

Good to hear a happy ending.


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