# Self Employed For 10 Years - No Entitlements? (Unusual case)



## dave2k (4 Jul 2013)

Hi everyone,
10 years ago, I started a company, a service/consultancy company (not construction related!). I have/had 8 people on staff.
The past two years have been tough and as of last week, I've had to throw in the towel and liquidate the company (ongoing).

I've been issued my P45 and I am officially unemployed. 

I've been paying Class S contributions for the past 10 years. I've never received a social welfare payment in my life. I've been made aware that my contributions don't entitle me to any Job Seekers Benefit. This obviously came as a little bit of a surprise.

I went to my local SW office and I have an appointment booked next week to speak to someone about Jobseekers Allowance. 

In the meantime, I'm pretty worried. Two years ago, when the company started going downhill, I had to take a massive pay cut and move back in with my parents. I've been living with them ever since. I am 32 years old.

My (step) Father is in full time employment, on what I can only assume is a healthy salary. We have not spoken in years.
My mother is on SW on a back to education allowance of some sort.
My brother is on JSB
My sister is an intern with the job bridge scheme.

Everything is a pretty big mess. 
Up until now, I've been paying my mother a few bob when I can as "rent" which obviously she doesn't declare (Please leave aside the ethics of this for the purposes of my post). She buys bread and milk out of it and pays off her CU loan.

I also have credit union debts (a loan I took out to sustain the company for a couple of years that backfired) of €12,000 which I have restructured and have been paying off monthly with whatever was left over at the end of each month from the company to pay myself with. All my savings went to paying this off.

I have no assets.

I've never taken a penny from my parents in my life and getting financial assistance from the only person in the household who has the means to is absolutely out of the question. Allowing me to stay in the box room is more than enough assistance (which is fair enough) in his eyes.

Essentially, I have absolutely *NO* means of *ANY* now income whatsoever. The only reason I'm not out on the streets is because my parents are kind enough to let me have the box room and feed me. Obviously they, and I, see this as a VERY short term solution.

*My question is this: Will my "Family situation" be taken into account when I'm means tested next week for JSA? Even though I'm well over 25? I mean, will my stepfathers income effect the judgement of the social welfare officer who will assess my case? Because my mother is not declaring the merger amount I'm paying her in "rent", it would appear that I'm all taken care of at home when really I am not. 

I genuinely want to get back to work as soon as possible and have been on the hunt since the minute my P45 arrived. I've sent out 41 job applications and customized cover letters since (Which I can prove). I went to register with FÁS and they told me that they don't do "registrations" any more, they're merely a job seekers agency now.

Is it likely that I am entitled to NOTHING, not even an amount to cover my bus fare to interviews should I be lucky enough to get one?*

Any advice would be very much appreciated.


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## wbbs (4 Jul 2013)

No, you will not be means tested on the income of the household, it may take a while to process so you will probably have to go to the local community welfare officer for an interim payment after you meet with social welfare. Best of luck with the job hunt.


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## mercman (4 Jul 2013)

My heart goes out to you and the many thousands of folk caught in a similar situation. Whilst I don't know an awful lot about the Social Welfare system, but from what you have written it appears that you were good at your own business.

You haven't stated your sector, and it is certainly nobody's business, but have you investigated the possibilities of restarting the business in the UK or some other country. At its worst there might be jobs for people with good experience.

I'd say, without my being rude, is to pick yourself up, hold your head up high. Something will occur at the least expected time. Your circumstance is no different to thousands as already mentioned. This country is a complete basketcase and the only way we're going to get out of the mess is for everybody to put their shoulders to the wheel and push.

Shag the Politicians and bankers. We have all danced the tune of the EU. The time has come to tell them to FO, and do it the people's way.

Best of luck to you.


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## dave2k (4 Jul 2013)

wbbs said:


> No, you will not be means tested on the income of the household, it may take a while to process so you will probably have to go to the local community welfare officer for an interim payment after you meet with social welfare. Best of luck with the job hunt.



Thank you for this. It's the answer I was _hoping_ for. I've no problem waiting. I'm not doing anything else! I've explained this situation to my mother who will let me stay until "something" comes up. Whether that's SW assistance or a new job. I'll take all the help that I can get at this stage. 

Having a girlfriend in this situation isn't easy either. 32 years of age, living at home, struggling to get on the dole. I'm some catch!



mercman said:


> My heart goes out to you and the many thousands of folk caught in a similar situation. Whilst I don't know an awful lot about the Social Welfare system, but from what you have written it appears that you were good at your own business.
> 
> You haven't stated your sector, and it is certainly nobody's business, but have you investigated the possibilities of restarting the business in the UK or some other country. At its worst there might be jobs for people with good experience.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply and kinds words. The sector was the IT services sector. I was actually a pioneer in the technology use in Ireland and started the company during my first year of college which I used to pay my college fees. My experience is approaching the stage of "too experienced" for many jobs that I could do right now. 

Like you said, there's actually a surprising amount of opportunities abroad, many involving a step down the ladder (which I am completely open to!), but the girlfriend (of 15 years now) is the only thing holding me back (for now anyway). I don't want to leave Ireland anyway.

The company is set up previously was initially a lifestyle business and I had no formal business training. I just learned as I went along. Ultimately, that was the downfall of the company. I've learned a lot the past few years and I do plan on starting another company, but that will take time. In the meantime, I need to sustain myself while I get that organized. 

While I am feeling quite sorry for myself, I am losing sleep over the staff who I've had to let go. My salary at the end was ~€1000 per month working 60 hour weeks just so I could keep them on. If I do go the new company route, I'll be certain to do it right this time. I'd rather have a smaller salary in Ireland and hire 5-10 full time employees here than work abroad for a multinational for 3 times the salary. That might not make sense to a lot of you, but it does to me.


Anyway, fingers crossed I get assessed on my own personal situation and not the household situation like you suggested. I really am not planning to be on any assistance for long, but I genuinely need SOMETHING to keep me going to so I can rebuild. 


And thanks for reading this too. The mere fact of writing this out has helped a lot as it's hidden away from everyone close to me (except my mother obviously).


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## SarahMc (4 Jul 2013)

NotSoJolly, really sorry to hear of your circumstances. That is a tough time to be going through. I am hoping that Entrepeneurs like yourself, will in time brush yourself off and find the fire, opportunity and energy again.

In the meantime, be assured that it is only for those aged 24 or under that parental income is assessed as means.


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## dave2k (4 Jul 2013)

SarahMc said:


> NotSoJolly, really sorry to hear of your circumstances. That is a tough time to be going through. I am hoping that Entrepeneurs like yourself, will in time brush yourself off and find the fire, opportunity and energy again.
> 
> In the meantime, be assured that it is only for those aged 24 or under that parental income is assessed as means.



Thanks so much for the advice and reassurance Sarah. I really wasn't expecting to get the "best possible" answers to my questions. I was expecting a barrage of 
"Your government let you down, you're screwed" replies. So thank you


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## PaddyBloggit (4 Jul 2013)

As an aside ... can you ply your IT skills online?


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## Lauren (5 Jul 2013)

Good luck in the future, whatever happens. Keep us posted on developments...


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## dave2k (26 Jul 2013)

Just wanted to follow up on this thread in case anyone in the future is in the same situation (I hate it when others don't  )

I've made my application, explained my situation and was means tested without the means of the other people living in my house coming into play.

It took 2 weeks after my initial meeting/means test "interview" (which wasn't an interview at all but a submission of documents at the local SW office). 

I got notification today that I was approved for JSA at the same rate of JSB which is great. 

Hopefully will not be on it too long, two interviews next week so fingers crossed. Thanks everyone for all your advice and help.


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## Lauren (27 Jul 2013)

Good to hear things have moved on for you and at least some of your worries have calmed.....I'm sure you'll bounce back in the coming months....


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