# Problems with Tenant



## virgo08 (28 Feb 2013)

Hope someone can help or advise me please. 

I have a tenant who is giving me some hassle at the moment, apart from been late with the rent she has a pet in the apartment, the management company called us to say there was a complaint from the neighbours about a dog barking in our apartment. 

When I rang the tenant i could hear the dog and reminded her there was a no pet policy. She said it belonged to her aunt who was visiting.  

A month later i called to the apartment regarding late rent to find a motor cycle in the doorway.  Quite a powerful one. There was also a dog there, she said she was minding it for her aunt.

I made an agreement with them about the late rent and told them I would give them time to catch up.

Over the weekend we get numerous calls again from the management co to say there was a motor bike been started in the apartment, fumes dirt tracks etc in the hallway.  When i called the tenant they said they had no where to put the bike, I told her to remove it, it was causing a health and safety hazard to other tenants and that she was jeopardising the insurance etc.  We got another call to say she hadn't removed the bike so my husband called, they wouldn't answer the door, I called the guards who were of no help, eventually they removed the bike.  

I told her i was giving her notice to moved out of the property in 30 days, she called me the next morning to say she called threshold and that i had no legal right to give her an eviction notice. 

Can anyone advise me as i suspect this is going to be a battle.


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## Dermot (28 Feb 2013)

How long is Tenant in the Apartment?.
What type of lease have you with the Tenant.
Have you a precise record of the times you called and found the dog and motorcycle in the Apartment.
Take photographs of the Motorcycle in the Apartment as often as you can.
Issue a 14 day notice as per PRTB website re rent arrears.
Are you registered with the PRTB.
Enquire from the residents about the nuisance being caused and get their names and addresses.
Put all your complaints to Tenant on paper and keep a paper trail.
Get a copy of the no pet policy from Management Co and also the Management Co's policy re storing a motorcycle in the Apartment.  This is certainly an insurance issue. Ask the management Co if they could give you a letter outlining their concerns and complaints that they have received and give a copy to your Tenant.


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## WizardDr (28 Feb 2013)

From the Residential Tenancy Act 2004:

TABLE
Grounds for termination
1. The tenant has failed to comply with any of his or her obligations in relation to the tenancy (whether arising under this Act or otherwise) and, unless the failure provides an excepted basis for termination—
(a) the tenant has been notified of the failure by the landlord and that notification states that the landlord is entitled to terminate the tenancy if the failure is not remedied within a reasonable time specified in that notification, and
(b) the tenant does not remedy the failure within that specified time.

Maybe the tenant did not give Threashold the full information or they are making it up.

This is a pretty awful act - but you are on strong grounds - but it could get nasty


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## facetious (28 Feb 2013)

When trying to evict a tenant for whatever reason, it is imperative that you follow the correct procedures.

As can be seen from WizardDr's post, you must first advise the tenant in writing - verbal is invalid - of the breaches of the lease agreement, management co rules, and RTA 2004 laws.

You should advise the tenant to desist from any of the known breaches (list them - no dogs includes no dogs visiting, no motorcycles in the apartment nor within the apartment block, etc) and if there are any further breaches she will be issued with a 28 day Notice of Termination (irrespective of fixed term or Part 4 agreement). Furthermore she may also have to forfeit her deposit.

As I recall, there is a sample Notice of Termination (with notes on completion) on the PRTB website. It is vitally important to ensure that the NoT is completed correctly in all respects or it will be deemed invalid. Eviction on the basis of an invalid NoT usually costs the landlord several thousands of euros in damages awarded to the tenant.


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## oldnick (28 Feb 2013)

Op's post slightly unclear ..

Bike was removed,  OP states. So, is it back or what?

Tenant claims she was looking after aunt's dog. If that is true, and dog goes, then the only problem is late rent.However,  OP  states she came to an agreement about it.

So, if there's no bike, and tenant returns dog to aunt and there's been agreement on rent (albeit reluctantly from OP's point) then perhaps evicting them may not be so easy.


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## facetious (28 Feb 2013)

oldnick said:


> Op's post slightly unclear ..
> 
> Bike was removed,  OP states. So, is it back or what?
> 
> ...


Even if these issues have been resolved, it would be in the landlord's interest to have the breaches recorded, (by sending a letter to the tenant, and OP keeping a copy), should, at a later date, proof be require.

I feel sure that the actions of the current tenant will not just cease but may go to other issues. 

In any claim with the PRTB, any evidence is very useful. It is much better to be prepared than to ask later "why didn't I make those issue official?". This is one of the reasons landlords fail to "win" claims against tenants - lack of evidence.


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## shesells (28 Feb 2013)

Does your lease with the tenant state that they have to comply with development rules? If so the tenant would be in breach of the lease by having a pet even short term, I can't remember the precise wording of ours but basically dogs visiting is not acceptable when the dog disturbs neighbours. Putting a bike, even a pedal bike in a common hallway is also against our rules.

If the motorbike had fallen on a child the consequences could have been horrendous. Motorbikes should always be parked in the car park and in such a way as not to be in danger of falling over onto a passer by.

The other problem for you is that there is most likely a clause in your lease with the management company which compels you to ensure that any tenants are in full compliance with the development rules. You need to be seen to act to keep the management company onside.


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## virgo08 (2 Mar 2013)

Thank you all for your replies, much more informative than the PRTB, who were not much help at all.  I have a lease in place with the tenants, they are in the apt 6 months since 28 Feb.  Apart from everything else the apt is wrecked and filthy but i can live with that as i never seem to get my properties back as they were given.  I have no photo evidence but i have asked the neighbours to take photos if they have any further complaints, providing they dont feel threatened or intimidated.  I will send them a letter anyway at least they know i will not be letting this go unnoted.


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## facetious (2 Mar 2013)

virgo08 said:


> Thank you all for your replies, much more informative than the PRTB, who were not much help at all.  I have a lease in place with the tenants, they are in the apt 6 months since 28 Feb.  Apart from everything else the apt is wrecked and filthy but i can live with that as i never seem to get my properties back as they were given.  I have no photo evidence but i have asked the neighbours to take photos if they have any further complaints, providing they dont feel threatened or intimidated.  I will send them a letter anyway at least they know i will not be letting this go unnoted.


You haven't said which type of lease they have - a Fixed term (i.e. the contract is for a specified time - usually 12 months but could be more or less) or a Part 4.

The advantage of the fixed term lease is that basically, you are assured of the rent for that period. The disadvantage is that it is very difficult to get rid of a troublesome tenant who breaches "minor" obligations which do not result in immediate financial loss.

The advantage of a Part 4 tenancy is that the landlord may evict a tenant, without giving a reason, during the first six months of the tenancy. The disadvantage is that a tenant may also leave by just giving 28 days notice (longer if resident for more than 6 months) and retain their deposit (excepting damage in excess of normal wear and tear) thus the landlord is not assured of rental income for any period of time.

IMHO, good landlords may be better starting a tenant on a (say 5 month Part 4 tenancy and then, once the tenant is reasonable go to a fixed term lease for assured rental income and for the tenant the best form of security of tenure. 

I say a probation period of 5 months because, once a tenant is resident for six months, s/he acquires Part 4 rights and a landlord may then only evict the tenant under certain grounds which must be stated on the Notice of Termination. If none of the grounds are applicable the tenant cannot be evicted save for tenant's breach of obligations.

Poor landlords with "dubious" quality properties would not go for an initial Part 4 tenancy as if the property does not come up to scratch for the tenants, they are at liberty to vacate after 28 days notice.


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## WizardDr (2 Mar 2013)

@virgo08 You need to realise that one of the reasons you get back your apartments in bad condition is:
- you dont assess the tenants correctly;
- you let things go;
- you are a soft touch.

If you have a bad tenant - get rid of them.


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## virgo08 (17 Apr 2013)

*Problems with Tenants - now moved out*

Well the tenants moved out after an eviction notice, threatened they would wreck the place and that is exactly what they did.  I called the guards who said it was a civil matter.  Surely someone who vandalises your property cannot get away with it.  They broke the lock in the door, put a screwdriver through the water tank, smeared dog poo all over the walls, left 6 months rubbish in the cloakroom, now full of maggots, the took pictures clocks cutlery lamps etc, the floor boards have to come up, walls painted, blinds replaced and it was only renovated before the move in.  I am aware they are still in the area renting another property, i phoned the housing authority and social welfare and reported them but to be honest i dont think they were really interested.  These people are known to the guards which i later found out.  Is this going to cost me alot to take action?  We work so hard to keep out heads above water and i am devastated someone can do this and get away with it.  Where do i even start??


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## AlbacoreA (17 Apr 2013)

Consider what realistically you will you get in return from pursuing it? Then approach it from that point of view. Unless you can get the Garda to get involved I think you are wasting your time, money and causing yourself stress. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-stray-dogs-run-wild-act-renters-revenge.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056785067

Get a professional cleaning crowd in to clean it, and put it down as an expense.


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## facetious (17 Apr 2013)

Do you not make an entry inventory stating all the furniture, appliances, the quantity and condition etc plus the the condition of all flooring, walls, doors, windows etc. This should be signed when the tenant moves into the property that they agree with the schedule.

At the end of the tenancy, an exit inventory is completed (preferably with the tenants presence) and any change in quantity or condition noted and signed by the tenant. 

Then, allowing for normal wear and tear, the difference is classed as damage, whether it be actual damage (as in broken) or leaving the property dirty.

If the damage is in excess of the deposit, then you have to make a claim with the PRTB. However, you must first asses if the tenant has the money to pay and if the time and hassle involved is worth while. Also you will need the present address of the tenant so that the PRTB can send him the required legal documents relating to the claim.

There is nothing better than scrutinizing prospective tenants references and if in doubt either do not accept them or get more in the way of a deposit - maybe two months rent. Those of the more dubious character probably will not have that extra money or just refuse to pay it, knowing that they won't be able to leave using the deposit as the last month's rent!


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## virgo08 (17 Apr 2013)

Yes i did inventory through our agent, he will not return my calls.  I could not do an exit inventory as they would not agree to meet just informed us that day they had left.  I know where they now live and rang all the estate agents to warn them, unfortunately they are now someone else's problem, just wish the law would change for those of us who are fulfilling our mortgage repayments and having people like these vandalising your property.   A very expensive lesson learned here.


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## oldnick (17 Apr 2013)

Every LL on this site feels for you, and many of us have had similar tales.

 Albacorea is right - better to pay for refurb  and try to forget it. Pursuing scumbags is a waste of time ,effort and money. 

I've often repeated it on these posts - The law in Ireland seems to treat the worst tenant  better than a good LL.
Sadly there are still posters on AAM who seem to share this anti-LL prejudice.


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## Dermot (17 Apr 2013)

+1 oldnick to your last reply


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## Bronte (18 Apr 2013)

virgo08 said:


> These people are known to the guards which i later found out. Is this going to cost me alot to take action? We work so hard to keep out heads above water and i am devastated someone can do this and get away with it. Where do i even start??


 
Oh deary me, where to start. Well this is how. You walk away from this in your mind. You resolve that you will be ever more vigilant in the future when tenant's come. You've now found out that leases, the law and the PRTB are all useless. You learn from this. Along with most landlords I've been though your situation, not as bad mind. But I really feel for you. Yes it's sad that people can get away with what they did. I have no answer to that. They will do exactly the same in the next place. They knew what they were at. If it's any consolation at least you got them out. That's actually quite an achievement, it could have been a lot worse on that score.  I knew when the tenant mentioned her "rights" and threshold you hadn't a hope. That's the first alarm bell for any landlord.  People who know their rights tend not to know their obligations.  Scumbags as another poster mentioned and it's not a word I'd ever use.


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## Bronte (18 Apr 2013)

facetious said:


> Do you not make an entry inventory stating all the furniture, appliances, the quantity and condition etc plus the the condition of all flooring, walls, doors, windows etc. This should be signed when the tenant moves into the property that they agree with the schedule.


 
I know you mean well facetioius but what good is all that in the situation that Virgo finds herself in?


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## delgirl (18 Apr 2013)

Bronte said:


> Oh deary me, where to start. Well this is how. You walk away from this in your mind. *You resolve that you will be ever more vigilant in the future when tenant's come.* You've now found out that leases, the law and the PRTB are all useless. You learn from this. Along with most landlords I've been though your situation, not as bad mind.


Negative life lessons help us to learn what not to do - every time we discover what doesn't work, we move closer to solving a problem.

Feel great sympathy for you  - been through the same thing myself twice (idiot! ).  First time was tenants via an agent when we were living abroad and second time was totally my fault for not being thorough enough with checks.

My current tenants had to supply 3 references and I even went as far as calling with the neighbours at their last (which was then current) address to ask them what kind of people my prospective tenants were.  Also asked the Resident's Association Secretary in the last estate they lived in if there were any problems.  

Am luck to have great tenants and hope they stay for a long time.

It may reduce your costs to see if the blinds, if roller, have a lot of material on the roll - you can take them to a blind shop and ask them to cut off the damaged part at the bottom and re-finish them.  My tenants damaged all my blinds and I was able to refurbish them for €15 each.


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## AlbacoreA (18 Apr 2013)

virgo08 said:


> ...   A very expensive lesson learned here.



Look at it this way you could have had a tenant who over stayed without paying rent for a long time. Which would have been worse. This way you get the place cleaned up and rented again quickly. Minimising your loss.


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