# Steps to take now we have decided to leave for the UK



## Samwise1

I would like some advise on steps to take, as we have made the decision to leave for the UK, and not return to Ireland. We are originally from the UK, and will be returning with our family, including 2 school going age children. 

We plan to be over in the UK before Sept this year for school purposes.

We have been in an agreement with our mortgage lender paying €130 per week, as we are both unemployed (Husband finishing his honors degree in in may)

We will go bankrupt in the UK once we have been there long enough.

My questions are

1. I am going to stop paying the mortgage very soon, so I can use the money to pay to get us set up in the UK etc, should I tell them I cant afford to pay it? or wait for them to ring me, and then tell them? 

2. How long approx do I have before I would have to be out of the house? 

3. Do I tell them my new address once in the UK (probably living with family until we sort a rental etc)

4. When I leave the house of my own accord do I post the keys back?

5. Do I tell them I will be declaring bankruptcy at all?  What stage?


Any advise appreciated in getting our fresh start.

thanks


----------



## Cantalia

Hello, it seems AIB bank now have quite a quick response to recieving keys. I know of one case where keys to buy to let apartments were posted back to the bank and within a week the bank had its agents out to change the locks and serve eviction notices on any remaining tenant.


----------



## Newgirl2014

Samwise we went to uk and got set up renting etc, got through about three month of our COMI before we went back for a weekend and sorted out storing possessions with family and then posted back keys explaining we were surrendering the house to them as could not keep up payments and that we had moved to the UK and gave our address. We did and IVA and when they got that paperwork we did say that if they refused the offer we would be doing bankruptcy a month later, but they went with the IVA.


----------



## Steve Thatcher

I can obviously answer these for you Samwise. see below



Samwise1 said:


> I would like some advise on steps to take, as we have made the decision to leave for the UK, and not return to Ireland. We are originally from the UK, and will be returning with our family, including 2 school going age children.
> 
> We plan to be over in the UK before Sept this year for school purposes.
> 
> We have been in an agreement with our mortgage lender paying €130 per week, as we are both unemployed (Husband finishing his honors degree in in may)
> 
> We will go bankrupt in the UK once we have been there long enough.
> 
> My questions are
> 
> 1. I am going to stop paying the mortgage very soon, so I can use the money to pay to get us set up in the UK etc, should I tell them I cant afford to pay it? or wait for them to ring me, and then tell them?
> 
> yes there is no point in paying money on an asset you are going to hand back
> 
> 2. How long approx do I have before I would have to be out of the house?
> 
> if you are going to move across later this year, I would have thought you would have quite a few months before they took any action which would initially be letters then escalating to possession. By the time the latter happens you would be in the UK
> 
> 3. Do I tell them my new address once in the UK (probably living with family until we sort a rental etc)
> 
> tell them your new address at some point. I generally advise at about two months in
> 
> 4. When I leave the house of my own accord do I post the keys back?
> 
> I suggest a voluntary surrender just after you tell them of your new UK address
> 
> 5. Do I tell them I will be declaring bankruptcy at all?  What stage?
> 
> never, no need
> 
> 
> Any advise appreciated in getting our fresh start.
> 
> thanks


----------



## Bronte

Newgirl2014 said:


> . We did and IVA and when they got that paperwork we did say that if they refused the offer we would be doing bankruptcy a month later, but they went with the IVA.


 

That's very interesting, which bank is it?  Good result, and fair play to the bank for not forcing you into a bankruptcy.


----------



## Samwise1

Thanks everyone for answering my question. I have been reading up on as much as I can, so I go into this armed with as much knowledge as possible.

Steve Thatcher, thanks for answering my individual questions - Can I just ask additionally -

1. Do I still talk to the sub prime lender regularly while in the house, and keep telling them  cannot afford payments?

2. We don't have a huge amount of money behind us, and as we only pay a little each week, that will not add up to a huge amount once the mortgage is not being paid, is it possible to find an advisor in the UK who would not be too expensive, to help us with filling in the bankruptcy forms, and any questions we might have?

3. I am following the blog of the person who moved to Scotland from Ireland to declare bankruptcy, and he never mentioned having to go to court? Is it different in scotland? Or has he just not mentioned that part?


thanks in advance!


----------



## Newgirl2014

Hi Bronte, I have posted about it in a separate thread in this section, UK IVA for Irish debt. Not many seemed to be interested though. It was AIB, 40k for circa 4 million of debt which was in the form of a personal guarantee.


----------



## Newgirl2014

Also Bronte the bank got everything, property, investments the lot, surrendered before we did our IVA as that works well for unsecured debt such as PerGuars. They would have got nothing on bankruptcy remember. Also we always did everything right, we always paid in the rents from the buy to let's for example right up to the end.


----------



## Newgirl2014

Samwise, there is a bit more to it than you might think. I can recommend Steve Thatcher as we used him and found him excellent even though at the last minute our is was accepted and we didn't have to go to bankruptcy court the following week, but we were ready to. The forms etc are all online on the UK courts services website. A little bit of googling and you'll find them.


----------



## IB2013

Samwise1 said:


> Thanks everyone for answering my question. I have been reading up on as much as I can, so I go into this armed with as much knowledge as possible.
> 
> Steve Thatcher, thanks for answering my individual questions - Can I just ask additionally -
> 
> 1. Do I still talk to the sub prime lender regularly while in the house, and keep telling them  cannot afford payments?
> 
> 2. We don't have a huge amount of money behind us, and as we only pay a little each week, that will not add up to a huge amount once the mortgage is not being paid, is it possible to find an advisor in the UK who would not be too expensive, to help us with filling in the bankruptcy forms, and any questions we might have?
> 
> 3. I am following the blog of the person who moved to Scotland from Ireland to declare bankruptcy, and he never mentioned having to go to court? Is it different in scotland? Or has he just not mentioned that part?
> 
> 
> thanks in advance!



Samwise1 - Just to confirm for the record that I have been declared bankrupt in Scotland and have never stood inside a court. As mentioned in my blog, ALL correspondence with the Scottish bankruptcy authorities has been by letter, phone and email.
Hope this clarifies the matter for you. 

irishbankrupt.com


----------



## Samwise1

Newgirl2014 said:


> Samwise, there is a bit more to it than you might think. I can recommend Steve Thatcher as we used him and found him excellent even though at the last minute our is was accepted and we didn't have to go to bankruptcy court the following week, but we were ready to. The forms etc are all online on the UK courts services website. A little bit of googling and you'll find them.



Thanks for your posts, I know from reading on here, that Steve Thatcher would be a fantastic adviser to have. 

One of my worries is as we have been unemployed for quite a while, and so have only been paying €130 p/w to our sub prime lender, stopping paying this will not add up to any great amount, and we have no money in savings etc? 

How do we pay for the adviser?

Any money we do manage to save up, would need to pay our rent, deposit, removals (as we do not intend to return to Ireland) and storage, as we may move in with family for a while first.

I understand what you say about there being more to it, but this money issue worries me.

Thanks


----------



## Bronte

Samwise1 said:


> How do we pay for the adviser?


 
Well if you cannot afford one you have to go it alone. It cannot be that difficult, you are from the UK so that's a plus already, because the courts won't think you are forum shopping. There must be the equivelent of citizen's advice in the UK which will outline what you need to do. Plus a website like AAM must exist where you can find out what you need to do. In addition there is plenty of info here on AAM on the process.

Do you actually need to go bankrupt?  Will the bank pursue you I wonder.


----------



## Samwise1

me and my husband were discussing if we should just not go bankrupt, and see if they just dont catch up with us in the UK, but thought there was a good chance they might be able to. I also thought maybe its best to have a clean slate? We don't intend to come back to live in Ireland, but like I say I am unsure if they would find us?


----------



## Steve Thatcher

Samwise1 said:


> Thanks for your posts, I know from reading on here, that Steve Thatcher would be a fantastic adviser to have.
> 
> One of my worries is as we have been unemployed for quite a while, and so have only been paying €130 p/w to our sub prime lender, stopping paying this will not add up to any great amount, and we have no money in savings etc?
> 
> How do we pay for the adviser?
> 
> Any money we do manage to save up, would need to pay our rent, deposit, removals (as we do not intend to return to Ireland) and storage, as we may move in with family for a while first.
> 
> I understand what you say about there being more to it, but this money issue worries me.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks



DM me if you want some info personal to you.

Steve Thatcher


----------



## Samwise1

Thanks Steve, I would like to contact you - I am not sure I can send you a PM? due to being a new user.


----------



## Steve Thatcher

Samwise1 said:


> Thanks Steve, I would like to contact you - I am not sure I can send you a PM? due to being a new user.



in that case email

sthatcher@helpwithdebtuk.com

Steve


----------



## HarymetSally

Hi
Can someone advise me... we decided to go to uk to go B/rupt and the bank will not take back the house even though no payments made for a year due to lost jobs... If we send back the keys with the OR take this into consideration in NI/UK bankrupcy or should we sell it first to ensure they don't drag heals... we can get no one to advise us on what to do here!!
Thnks


----------



## IB2013

HarymetSally said:


> Hi
> Can someone advise me... we decided to go to uk to go B/rupt and the bank will not take back the house even though no payments made for a year due to lost jobs... If we send back the keys with the OR take this into consideration in NI/UK bankrupcy or should we sell it first to ensure they don't drag heals... we can get no one to advise us on what to do here!!
> Thnks



Hi there, on the day you are declared bankrupt the house will come under the control of your bankruptcy trustee. Therefore it will not be your problem. As for the bank, you can forget about them too. Your assets and liabilities all come under the control of your bankruptcy trustee. Hope this helps.

www.irishbankrupt.com


----------



## HarymetSally

Thank you IB2013... will follow your blog too - thanks for link..
I heard that the BANK can delay releasing the details to the OR and hold proceedings up by not releasing the property to sell so that your Year/3Year period expires and your property still has not crystalised , can the property be handed back to you after bankruptcy period as a result of this....The property in question is in Negative Equity you see... does this matter
or
should we just put all into the Bankruptcy and fingers crossed as the prop should sell as in fab city location
Cheers


----------



## IB2013

HarymetSally said:


> Thank you IB2013... will follow your blog too - thanks for link..
> I heard that the BANK can delay releasing the details to the OR and hold proceedings up by not releasing the property to sell so that your Year/3Year period expires and your property still has not crystalised , can the property be handed back to you after bankruptcy period as a result of this....The property in question is in Negative Equity you see... does this matter
> or
> should we just put all into the Bankruptcy and fingers crossed as the prop should sell as in fab city location
> Cheers



What happens to your formerly owned property is not of concern to you after you have been declared bankrupt. The legal facts are that on the date of your bankruptcy all assets and liabilities vest with your trustee. 

I have no idea what has happened to any of the properties I used to own, and frankly nor do I care. They are no longer my concern. I have moved on with my life and the relief at having done so is difficult to articulate. 

I apologise if this seems rude/ gruff but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. If you have taken the decision to bankrupt yourself, your priority should be to get an adviser who can help you through the process and get yourself declared bankrupt. Once you cross this hurdle, the house is no longer your problem. Good luck with it.

www.irishbankrupt.com


----------



## Nearly there

I went through the process with no adviser. Although my situation was quite straight forward I found the paperwork and process quite user friendly. I have jointly owned property and my share of that now lies with the OR, it is in negative equity but as IB2013 points out it is no longer in my control so it is another worry point I have put behind me. Don't underestimate the impact of Bankruptcy on your life but I am well in now and feel it was worth while for my future - I also believe that I learnt a lot about friends and family during this process and that it has been the best decision of my life to declare.


----------



## no_moolah

Nearly there said:


> I went through the process with no adviser. Although my situation was quite straight forward I found the paperwork and process quite user friendly. I have jointly owned property and my share of that now lies with the OR, it is in negative equity but as IB2013 points out it is no longer in my control so it is another worry point I have put behind me. Don't underestimate the impact of Bankruptcy on your life but I am well in now and feel it was worth while for my future - I also believe that I learnt a lot about friends and family during this process and that it has been the best decision of my life to declare.


 
Hi NearlyThere

What kind of questions were you asked in your OR interview? if you don't mind sharing.

Thanks

NM


----------



## Bronte

Samwise1 said:


> 3. I am following the blog of the person who moved to Scotland from Ireland to declare bankruptcy, and he never mentioned having to go to court? Is it different in scotland? Or has he just not mentioned that part?


 
People assume that the UK is one legal system, but it is not.  I believe it's divided into about 3 systems.  England and Wales, Scotland, and N. Ireland.  So the person going bankrupt in Scotland will have a simlar experience to those in Eng/Wal, but it will not be exactly the same rules and procedures.


----------



## Action

Hi samwise,

It is true there is no court appearance in Scotland. It is a totally separate system to England. You will apply directly to a government body who will bankrupt you within days of receiving your application assuming everything is in order. You will need to have established your comi and all the other aspects will need to be in place. No court appearance though. I'm finding that the clients I have from Ireland like the idea of not having to appear at court!


----------



## Nearly there

Hi No Moolah,

 The OR interview focussed entirely on my Statement of affairs (Form 6.28) which I lodged to the court when I declared. The interview took approx 2 hours and although I was very apprehensive and worried about outcome it went very smoothly. 

 The OR went through every question I answered and asked for a narrative but you are allowed bring a copy for reference and as everything I said was accurate and true it went fine.

 The OR came across as a forensic accountant and stated that the interview will be nothing to worry about once I am not trying to hide anything. I was asked at the end to make a statement as to what happened and how I got in to financial trouble as a narrative for my creditors.

 I was asked did I gamble or did I pay one creditor over another and that was the last I heard from the OR!


----------



## Notsureatall

Hi, I had my OR interview recently too and although I was slightly nervous about it, I needn't have worried. It was a phone interview and took 20 mins. I must be a straightforward enough case or just lucky I guess! I was told I'd be contacted in 6months time to see if my earnings increased and then automatically discharged in a year. 
One thing that has been mentioned already on this site but I can't reiterate enough is to pay for someone like Steve thatcher. Unfortunately I had already signed up with another so called expert and he was terrible and his legal advice was completely wrong.His incompetence caused us an additional 4months on top of the 6month comi rule so it took me nearly a year to get my bankruptcy order. I sacked him and met up with Steve for one consultation and I got more info out of him in that hour than the year with the other guy!


----------



## Steve Thatcher

Notsureatall said:


> Hi, I had my OR interview recently too and although I was slightly nervous about it, I needn't have worried. It was a phone interview and took 20 mins. I must be a straightforward enough case or just lucky I guess! I was told I'd be contacted in 6months time to see if my earnings increased and then automatically discharged in a year.
> One thing that has been mentioned already on this site but I can't reiterate enough is to pay for someone like Steve thatcher. Unfortunately I had already signed up with another so called expert and he was terrible and his legal advice was completely wrong.His incompetence caused us an additional 4months on top of the 6month comi rule so it took me nearly a year to get my bankruptcy order. I sacked him and met up with Steve for one consultation and I got more info out of him in that hour than the year with the other guy!



Ohh that is so kind. Thank you and so glad that you are on your way. 
Good luck with EVERYTHING ;-)

Steve Thatcher


----------



## concept

Newgirl
 How is your COMI going and have you made your application yet? I am interested in the detail of returning to the house after three months - how did that work.  It would cost a good few thousand to store and remove the contents of, say, a four-bed house for three months and I would prefer to spend the money on establishing COMI and living in the UK during COMI. Any one else have any ideas as to how soon one needs to remove house contents.  Many thanks.


----------



## nec

newgirl, what department your dealt with at the bank?


----------



## prodigy81

Is it set in stone that the OR has to have a interview with you, either in person or on the phone? For example, can they just work off your statement of affairs etc without going through the interview process?


----------



## suarez

prodigy81 said:


> Is it set in stone that the OR has to have a interview with you, either in person or on the phone? For example, can they just work off your statement of affairs etc without going through the interview process?



Yes - in England and Wales.


----------



## prodigy81

Hi there Suerez, I am in a predicament, they are looking to put an IPA in place on my bankruptcy, I actually have no surplus cash..Is there anything I am missing out with. I earn only £1300 a month and £440 goes on rent. I am a single man and the electric and gas is included in the rent etc?? I am so worried I dont know what to do please help!!!


----------



## suarez

I private messaged you


----------



## newsbeat14

I left Ireland for the UK three years ago after a breakdown and am only now able to face up to dealing with the property I left behind. the mortgage hasn't been paid in years and the lender has been very good. I have the forms to proceed with a voluntary surrender in the hopes that they will take the keys board it up and I can carry on on my merry way in life.
however it has been suggested to me that I should declare myself bankrupt and then it will tie up all the loose ends and they won't come to the UK looking for me...I tend to take the ostritch approach and bury my head in the sand with stuff like this can any one advise me? 
If I declare myself bankrupt in Ireland how will that affect my life here?
and if I don't go down that road and simply hand the keys back and hope for the best is it likely to catch up with me?
Any help or advise would be most appreciated.


----------



## suarez

It depends on the mortgage provider.  AIB may agree to write it off - therefore no need for bankruptcy.  I would suggest that you inform your bank in writing that your agreement to Voluntarily Surrender the property should be contingent on a full write off.  If the bank don't play ball - contact someone like Anthony Joyce and his company might have more success in dealing with the bank on your behalf. Don't agree to anything until you've explored all of your options. If you have to go bankrupt - go bankrupt in the UK as opposed to  Ireland.  Your dicharge period - after being declared bankrupt - is 12 months in the UK as opposed to 3 years in Ireland.


----------



## Branz

suarez said:


> It depends on the mortgage provider.  AIB may agree to write it off - therefore no need for bankruptcy.  I would suggest that you inform your bank in writing that your agreement to Voluntarily Surrender the property should be contingent on a full write off.  If the bank don't play ball - contact someone like Anthony Joyce and his company might have more success in dealing with the bank on your behalf. Don't agree to anything until you've explored all of your options. If you have to go bankrupt - go bankrupt in the UK as opposed to  Ireland.  Your dicharge period - after being declared bankrupt - is 12 months in the UK as opposed to 3 years in Ireland.



I don't think the discharge period in Ireland is a clean 3 years, AFAIK depending on the lender they can pursue you for another 5 years, making 8 in total


----------



## DebtCert

It is 3 years unless a debtor fails to cooperate. No lender can pursue you once you go bankrupt.


----------

