# "Central Bank moves against Bank of Ireland and KBC amid tracker scandal"



## Brendan Burgess (19 Oct 2017)

According to today's Irish Times 

*Central Bank moves against Bank of Ireland and KBC amid tracker scandal*


I presume that they are fairly sure of their ground if they make a front page headline of it.


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Oct 2017)

The article claims that Bank of Ireland and KBC are lagging behind the other banks. 

This is probably due to the fact that they are standing their ground and disagree with the Central Bank that certain cohorts are affected. 

If, for example, BoI insists that the 1,800 staff are not entitled to their trackers back but the Central Bank argues that they are, then progress can't be made on them. 

Likewise, you can't accuse BoI of being slow. 

Brendan


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## LadyHB (19 Oct 2017)

I'm so delighted BOI have been named and shamed. I can't imagine the new CEO is happy about being hauled across the coals on this in her first month! She should be keen to get it resolved and addressed as fast as possible.


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

The Central Bank "moves" against BANK OF IRELAND and KBC amid Tracker scandal!

Can someone tell me what "move" is that?


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Oct 2017)

As the article says: 

"The Central Bank has begun enforcement investigations into Bank of Ireland and KBC Bank Ireland as part of an industry-wide examination of overcharging of tracker mortgage borrowers."

The Central Bank has an Administrative Sanctions Process for companies and individuals who have breached the codes of conduct or the law. 

So the first step for them is to conduct an investigation. 
The investigation would involve interviews and looking at documents. 
If they feel that sanctions are appropriate they will propose a sanction and, usually, the individual or bank agrees to it.
109 such Settlement Agreements have been concluded and you can read about them here: 
https://www.centralbank.ie/news-media/legal-notices/settlement-agreements


On some occasions - former Irish Nationwide directors for example, they don't agree to a sanction and penalty, so the Central Bank then has to hold a public hearing on the issue. 

Full details here: 
https://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/how-we-regulate/enforcement/administrative-sanctions-procedure

Brendan


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

"
So the first step for them is to conduct an investigation. 
The investigation would involve interviews and looking at documents. 
If they feel that sanctions are appropriate they will propose a sanction and, usually, the individual or bank agrees to it."

KBC blanked the Oireachtas
KBC blanked the Central Bank and the Tracker Examination
KBC blanked their customers
KBC will blank the guards
KBC don't and won't agree to anything for the impacted accounts 

What is the government and the Central Bank going to do about this!!?


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## demoivre (20 Oct 2017)

Lightening said:


> "
> So the first step for them is to conduct an investigation.
> The investigation would involve interviews and looking at documents.
> If they feel that sanctions are appropriate they will propose a sanction and, usually, the individual or bank agrees to it."
> ...



Will a judge in a court not do something about this? Why is this entire tracker scandal so complicated? Every borrower gets a mortgage contract. If the bank breaches that contract you sue them and you get your money back and compensation, compensation decided by a judge. The notion that the defendant ( bank ) decides on the amount of compensation is comical and it wouldn't happen in any other walk of life. If I was an affected borrower it's to my solicitor I would be going. 

The people I feel most sorry for in this whole tracker scandal are the borrowers who were told by some brokers that they would roll to a tracker after the initial fixed rate period and then found they weren't entitled to because it was written in the mortgage contract that they would roll to a svr. It was nothing other than fraud but is very hard, if not impossible , to prove.


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## Firefly (20 Oct 2017)

I was listening to Matt Cooper yest evening and Brendan Keenan was saying that the sum involved is circa 500m and represents the largest mistake/fraud/scam in the history of the state excluding the actual bank bail-out itself.

The Central Bank, with a staff of 1,700-1,800 have only assigned 26 staff to this issue which is beyond belief.

It has also been claimed by the Central Bank that their powers are limited. Such a cop-out...they're the bloody Central Bank! 

If this has even a sniff of illegal wrong-doing I would like to see the following actions taken:


The Gardai immediately bring in the CEOs and finance directors of the banks for questioning
The Central Bank advise that where monies were taken in error or illegally by the banks, that the interest rates and penalties used by Revenue will be attached to each case
Banks to have all monies repaid in 6 months, any that don't, will receive an additional special fine
All bonuses and share options to top staff are frozen until this issue is remedied 
Firefly.


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

Demoivre
Quote
"The people I feel most sorry for in this whole tracker scandal are the borrowers who were told by some brokers that they would roll to a tracker after the initial fixed rate period and then found they weren't entitled to because it was written in the mortgage contract that they would roll to a svr. It was nothing other than fraud but is very hard, if not impossible , to prove"unquote

It didn't state they would roll to the SVR!!


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## Lightening (20 Oct 2017)

To clarify the contracts at that period dealing with brokers did not state SVR.  It did in a later fixed rate agreement SVR however still underhanded the way it was done in the later fixed rate agreement


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## peemac (20 Oct 2017)

I wonder if the central bank would ever consider the ultimate sanction against a bank - withdrawl of banking licence because they deem the bank unfit to treat customers fairly. 

Highly unlikely,  but would be a nice option to have in the background.


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## Stitcher (20 Oct 2017)

Just like in the discounted tracker contracts. Initially the contracts stated  rolling on to the undiscounted rate. Then, within a short time frame,  contracts said 'reverting to  the then current tracker rate' (confusing wording at the time when you believe a Tracker is for the life of the mortgage) yet without changing the name of the product or altering customers to this major change and quoting the pre discount rate in projected repayments.  Definitely not taking customers into account.   I also have a quote from a broker saying rolling on to the undiscounted rate after year one.


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## Linten (20 Oct 2017)

It's hardly surprising that BOI and KBC are the two Banks against whom the CB are taking enforcement action.
KBC had a straightforward excuse at Finance Committee!! laughable but  senior management were not here when the Tracker scandal broke and they effectively are trying to wash their hands of it.Its not our problem and we're not motivated to do much about it..
For BOI it's a cultural issue. Right throughout the downturn when people were in severe financial difficulty BOI  held the line...there would be no settlements, no deals..in respect of Tracker it's interesting that the same Senior Execs are in situ that presided over the decision to illegally withdraw Tracker rates from customers. These are the same people that are now deciding on the cohorts that are deemed impacted.
When the Retail CEO  presented to Finance committee recently he highlighted that BOI had beenover and back to CB since they submitted Phase 2 in Sept 2016.... the reason one presumes is that BOI were looking to drive the meanest deal possible and were frustrating CB attempts to come to fair and reasonable resolutions for various cohorts ..hence CB losing patience and throwing the book at them.
The  result of it is that customers deemed impacted who were restored to Tracker rates as long ago as May 2016 have had no follow  up contact , redress or compensation delivered from BOI in the interim 16/18 month period. That's the contempt in which customers are held by BOI. 
Hopefully now with CB intervention we will see some immediate positive developments and the new CEO will pull the plug on the tossers who have been  running the BOI Tracker programme into the ground and causing  huge reputational damage to the Bank.


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## moneymakeover (20 Oct 2017)

My own experience with BOI
is that they were extremely tough

At that time they switched the manager which meant they reduced the pressure.
By comparison Aib were slightly human.

In retrospect BOI based on the instructions from Richard Boucher were totally inhumane and driven to get the money.

There were constant phone calls to myself and my wife. And now turns out they were ripping us off!


I would classify Boucher as white collar criminal.


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## Stitcher (21 Oct 2017)

I totally agree. He and his compatriots.
Oh, the terrible thoughts I had concerning RBH and other top bank officials,  and wished upon them. 
After losing my PTSB tracker, I switched to BOI variable then fixed and of course lost out as variable's then fell,  then the variable rate I got after the fixed was higher than before.
 So distressing. 
Totally lost any faith in banks and bankers. Would not have been so bad if mortgage was not so high.

 Why are home mortgages so open to such volatility?


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