# My DRN (Debt Relief Notice).



## Guinea pig

I seem to be the only person going through this process at the moment so I would like to share my experience.

I have been through the MABS initial contact and I have passed this screening.

I have received the pack and I am in the process of filling out the pack and getting the required documentation together.

I have 3 utilities and 5 creditors so I have to write to each one asking for:

1.	Total amount due.
2.	Monthly repayment amount.
3.	Confirmation of security for this loan, if any.
4.	Confirmation of whether or not this loan has been restructured.
5.	Confirmation of whether or not there is payment protection insurance                                                       associated with this account.
6.	Copy original loan agreement.
7.	Current interest rate. 

For the utilities, I just had to ask for the amount owed, arrears and average usage per month (!?).

I have only received a reply from 1 utility by email. Tomorrow I have to ring each one and chase the correspondence. 

Seeing as I was not making full payments to my creditors this will be hell as I do not want to enter into a telephone conversation with them concerning the DRN. Up till now I have only dealt with them by mail / e-mail. 

I have an provisional appointment for the 22nd of OCT, this will only be confirmed if I have all the documentation in, doesn't look as if I will so I can't see this appointment materialising. 

MABS have advised than I do not volunteer the fact I am seeking a DNR to my creditors but surely they can see when these pre-formatted letters arrive it points to the fact the customer is seeking DRN?


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Guinea Pig

Very interesting.  It is probably worth going through the problems of calling your creditors if it results in getting them written off through a DRN.

Would you mind providing a bit of background - amount owed, income, reason for being unable to pay your debts?


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## Guinea pig

Sure, my backround is:

We have a household income of €1148 part time employment and €814 Social welfare per month.  Total: 1962

Not including the child benefit of €260 per month. 


two adult, two kids and 1 car family

Do you need a car for work or do you use public transport? 

yes, shift work.

Partner buys a monthly bus ticket for €95.

Number of children 0- 2 years old: 2

Monthly childcare costs: 350

Monthly spend on special circumstances: e.g. exceptional healthcare costs €15




renters.



Credit Union 
Amount of shares : 200
(previously all my savings were transferred to pay off a lump of the loan).
Amount of loan outstanding €8,000
Interest 9.4%
Monthly repayment €220
Term left : 4.75 years

Restructured last year again



Credit cards 
Owed €9500
All interest stopped, all changed into loans.
repayments €280 p/m

rent €510 per month

Letter from the CU this morning with all information requested.


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## vandriver

You mention household income,but is it you ,your husband,or both of you applying for the DRN?Also,in whose  name is each debt?


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## Guinea pig

This is the bit I cant under stand, I see here there is confusion over it too.

All the debt is in my name only.

But for the DRN we are assessed as the 
2 adults and 2 kids and 1 car table. 

Make no sense to me, but we are still under the threshold. 

If a couple apply and debts are in both names do they both have a DRN against their name? I presume so.


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## Brendan Burgess

The primary issue is your debts and they are under €20,000. So you meet that criterion. 

They should look at your income on its own and your expenditure on its own to see if you meet that criterion, and you probably do.

But if they look at your joint income and joint expenditure, you will meet that criterion as well, so you are ok. 

Brendan


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## vandriver

If a previously self employed husband,who now has no income of his own,and cc debts of €18k,applied for a DRN,could it be refused if his wife's income is too high?


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## Bronte

This is very interesting Guinea Pig and thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

Very odd that Mabs told you not to tell the utilities about the fact you are applying for a DRN. Why would that be I wonder. Because Mabs suspects that the utility companies will not play ball. 

To solve the issue of ulilities. Can you not today ring in your meter reading, they will send you a bill, then you have your amount owing, you will also have your arrears. To calculate the monthly amount, take 12 months of bills add them up and divide by 12. Surely this is acceptable to Mabs, maybe you should ask them.

I'm curious about the utilities. I presume the current bill plus arrears gets written off in the DRN, but what happens going forward, will the utility company continue to supply you, how did Mabs explain this?

Any chance you could scan the pre formated letter that goes to the utility companies, and any other ones you might have. It would be good to see what they are like. 

I presume utilites must be gas, esb and ? Which one was prompt in reply?

In relation to the credit cards, did they write off the previous interest, how did you get them to convert it into a zero interest loan, was it because you defaulted.  Have you been paying them anything?  I'm just wondering why they didn't just write off the full debt.


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## ClaireM

Brendan Burgess said:


> The primary issue is your debts and they are under €20,000. So you meet that criterion.
> 
> They should look at your income on its own and your expenditure on its own to see if you meet that criterion, and you probably do.
> 
> But if they look at your joint income and joint expenditure, you will meet that criterion as well, so you are ok.
> 
> Brendan




As the RLEs are set our per household they look at the RLES appropriate for your household and apportion them  to each individual based on the individuals share of the income.


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## Guinea pig

> Very odd that Mabs told you not to tell the utilities about the fact you are applying for a DRN. Why would that be I wonder. Because Mabs suspects that the utility companies will not play ball.
> 
> 
> *I would say MABS said not to volunteer the information, I have all bills and I asked if that would just do, they said included them as well as the letter from each one.
> I think this is to make sure I didn't just run up a massive bill with the last 6 months. Thankfully it was Summer, this may happen if it was winter. *
> 
> To solve the issue of utilities. Can you not today ring in your meter reading, they will send you a bill, then you have your amount owing, you will also have your arrears. To calculate the monthly amount, take 12 months of bills add them up and divide by 12. Surely this is acceptable to Mabs, maybe you should ask them.
> 
> I'm curious about the utilities. I presume the current bill plus arrears gets written off in the DRN, but what happens going forward, will the utility company continue to supply you, how did Mabs explain this?
> 
> *I should have no arrears by the time the DNR is passed which is looking very far away from now. *
> 
> Any chance you could scan the pre formatted letter that goes to the utility companies, and any other ones you might have. It would be good to see what they are like.
> 
> *Sure, I can link to them*
> 
> 
> 
> I presume utilites must be gas, esb and ? Which one was prompt in reply?
> 
> *UPC was my third, they replied by email.*
> 
> In relation to the credit cards, did they write off the previous interest, how did you get them to convert it into a zero interest loan, was it because you defaulted. Have you been paying them anything? I'm just wondering why they didn't just write off the full debt.
> 
> *I have been working with all creditors since late 2010 when I had health issues. All CC have been restructured and yes I did miss payments as I had 12 weeks with any payment from anywhere in 2010. I didnt ask for them to write off the debt and I have always paid...something, sometimes just 10% of the payment.*
> 
> 
> Quick reply to this message  Multi-Quote This Message  Reply With Quote



Oops cant post links yet to the docs, will edit when I can.


By the way I am not married and all my debts are in my name.


EDIT:


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## Guinea pig

Another two creditors replied today with a letter stating the information requested.

One included the agreement from 2006. 
Surprisingly a financial review attached to the agreement says I had a mortgage of 125,000 on a property worth €155,000.

I have never had a mortgage or a property. 

A condition of the DRN is that no credit was gotten by fraud, this attachment to the agreement could be seen at some attempt to obtain credit by false means. 

I have now written to the bank to tell them the details are incorrect. 


The other creditor's letter stated the incorrect amount per month on the most recent payment plan and the wrong date this plan came into effect. Only for I have a spread sheet detailing every move I've had with each bank, I would have had to accept the banks version of everything.


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> Surprisingly a financial review attached to the agreement says I had a mortgage of 125,000 on a property worth €155,000.
> 
> I have never had a mortgage or a property.
> 
> I have now written to the bank to tell them the details are incorrect.
> 
> 
> The other creditor's letter stated the incorrect amount per month on the most recent payment plan and the wrong date this plan came into effect. ing.


 
So two of your creditors have given you at least 3 incorrect information. That's very shoddy work.

In relation to the credit cards the fact you made any kind of payment meant they didn't write off the debt.  They won't do that where they think there is any chance of a payment.  Have you ceased all payments to everybody?

What happens to ulitilites if you get a debt write off?  Can you just start again with the electric and the gas?


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## Guinea pig

I should have my ESB arrears cleared by Christmas if I keep to the current payments. 

I am currently paying about 24% of the required payment to each creditor, whether they have agreed to the payment or not. this money comes mostly from the children's allowance. 

the children's allowance is disregarded for the DRN.


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## Guinea pig

As it stands I now have had a reply from 3 of the 5 creditors and all utilities. 
I have started filing out the statement of affairs and it is different to the financial statement that MABS usually use. 

So far I have nearly 60 photocopied sheets, there is so much paperwork needed. If photocopying wasn't so cheap in the library I would have no hope of getting all this together. 

Initially the date for the meeting was this week but as I don't have the required documentation this will have to wait. 

I will re-write to the 2 creditors that didnt reply and ask for an immediate response.

I am still not sure this is really worth the hassel, I feel like I would just like each creditor bring me to court so they could see I have nothing to pay them.


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## Guinea pig

All creditors have no made contact and provided as much information as they can, I can finally post off the statement of affairs. 

Since I sent the letters asking for the DRN information I have been in receiving numerous letters asking for financial statements and statutory letters under the consumer credit act. 


MABS don't have a direct line to I have to call and leave a message if I need to speak to someone about a letter I have received. 

Once they receive the statement and I have the initial face to face meeting, MABS will take over dealing with the creditors, but in the mean time creditors are getting their piece said. 

Only one bank hasn't supplied the correct information, the debt has been passed to another company and they come up with a different amount owed every few weeks. They cannot supply the information that MABS want because I i didnt have a credit agreement with them, they were passed my account from another bank. 

I disagree with the DRN register online, but I admit I keep checking it to see if anyone else managed to complete this process.


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## vandriver

I disagree with the DRN register online, but I admit I keep checking it to see if anyone else managed to complete this process...
How do you check the register if you don't know their name?


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> I have been in receiving numerous letters asking for financial statements and statutory letters under the consumer credit act.
> 
> Once they receive the statement and I have the initial face to face meeting, MABS will take over dealing with the creditors,
> 
> Only one bank hasn't supplied the correct information, the debt has been passed to another company and they come up with a different amount owed every few weeks. They cannot supply the information that MABS want because I i didnt have a credit agreement with them, they were passed my account from another bank.


 
Thanks for the update and it does seem you are getting somewhere at last. If I understand you correctly, the fact that you're in a DRN means the banks etc have gone into overdrive sending you letters? Are they nasty? Or are they just trying to make sure they have all their i's dotted etc. 

That's a pity that MABS doesn't allow you a dedicated person to help you through the process, more makey jobey, with a staff member having to pass your phone call on, instead of just being efficient. Once Mabs take over, does that mean your creditors have to stop all correspondance with you? Can you tell us mroe about the DRN onlin register, are you named on it?

In relation to the one account where the debt has passed on and they are giving you a different figures every week, could you name them please.  Just want to know who is so inefficient.


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## Guinea pig

I search for common Irish names! I know this is sad and a waste of time, but if you search for any info on DRNs nothing comes up.

*If I understand you correctly, the fact that you're in a DRN means the banks etc have gone into overdrive sending you letters? *

I'm not technically in a DRN at all, but the since I sent the preformatted letters to the creditors, the letters have stepped up, mostly asking for new financial statements etc. A good few 'consumer credit act type' letters from Avant card. 

*Once Mabs take over, does that mean your creditors have to stop all correspondence with you? * Yes I have to sign a thing to give them the power to deal with all creditors. 

*Can you tell us mroe about the DRN onlin register, are you named on it? * No, I'm not. If my application is approved by the court then I will be on it, but you would need my name to search for me. Its here:

[broken link removed]

In relation to the one account where the debt has passed on and they are giving you a different figures every week, could you name them please. Just want to know who is so inefficient.

Halifax and Bluestone. There last 9 payments I made to Halifax seems to be missing but Bluestone have a much lower balance owed on file for me. Lower than even if they had accounted for the 9 payments for the can't find.

Also when Bluestone called me, I didn't confirm any details about myself but they just started telling me every detail about the account they had linked to my mobile number.


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> Halifax and Bluestone. There last 9 payments I made to Halifax seems to be missing but Bluestone have a much lower balance owed on file for me. Lower than even if they had accounted for the 9 payments for the can't find.
> 
> Also when Bluestone called me, I didn't confirm any details about myself but they just started telling me every detail about the account they had linked to my mobile number.


 
So you owe Halifax some money, you were unable to repay them and they passed it on to a debt collection agency called Bluestone. But either Halifax has supplied Bluestone with incorrect information or Bluestone has messed up. Can you prove how much you've paid, I suppose it doesn't really matter now and Mabs will sort it out. The only way I would think it was important is if your debt is being written off that no amount is missed. 

Something you should make Mabs aware of I assume. 

Do you have to pay any fees/costs?

Not sure why you're looking at the register, do you find people on it? Are there many?

Not sure what benefit it is of the creditors to be looking for new financial statements, seems a pointless exercise, as you're not going to be paying them anything from now on.  Just more pen pushing exercises instead of dealing properly with ordinary stressed people.


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## Guinea pig

I don't have to pay any fees that I am aware of.

ask payments are by bank transfer so I have a record.


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## Guinea pig

Latest update, I posted all my paperwork on the 15th of NOV.

I had called just before and told MABS I now had everything and would be posting it all in, they said fine.

I heard nothing until Monday, when I received all my paperwork back again. Actually, I received a photocopy of my paperwork. 

Because I had not made an appointment, they couldn't continue with the process. 

I was not impressed, but I called and got through immediately and a helpful lady said she call me back later.

When she called back she stated that a new appointment has been made for after x-mas. I do not have to resend everything.

There are notes made on the copies, such as 'no evidence of negotiation' , 'no original credit agreement' ,  credit facility withdrawn' etc. So someone has looked into my case. 

In the mean time, especially around children's allowance day I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.

So until the middle of Jan, everything is on hold....again. Its such a long drawn out process. At this rate they will only be dealing with collections companies anyway, not the original creditors.


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> There are notes made on the copies, such as 'no evidence of negotiation' , 'no original credit agreement' , credit facility withdrawn' etc. So someone has looked into my case.
> 
> In the mean time, especially around children's allowance day I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.
> 
> So until the middle of Jan, everything is on hold....again. Its such a long drawn out process. At this rate they will only be dealing with collections companies anyway, not the original creditors.


 
I know it's hard, but at least you are getting there.  You really are, so think positively.  Your problem is you're probably one of the first and it's a new process for everybody.  Yes it's a good idea to change your phone number, or only take calls from people you know, you do not need the hassle now and ultimately those collectors know you will not be paying them.  

You see the notes made on your documents, it might be an idea between now and your meeting in January to see if you can find those documents, not sure if you need to though.  You could ask the people in Mabs, that nice lady you spoke to the other day perhaps.  It's always great when you find someone nice and helpful.


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## davidoco

Guinea pig said:


> ........... I am besieged by calls, which I don't answer, so I am changing my number.



If you have an android phone look in a free app called MrNumber.  It will divert private/unknown/blacklist numbers to your voicemail.  Numbers in your phonebook can reach you.


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## Gerry Canning

Guinea Pig; 

In relation to calls.
If they are private numbers do not answer them (hardly ringing to say you won the Lotto!)
If you answer, do not give your date of birth, why should you give that to a stranger?

If you do answer and talk with them , politely tell them (i am with Mabs and they have taken my case and they are busy but will be in touch in the New Year)
Request that any contact in future is in writing, (stay polite.)

If you find yourself being stressed/harassed , simply hang up.

Mabs will get back to you.
I wouldn,t be a fan of changing numbers, it means moving contacts etc.

If you get over the initial calls from Collectors and advise them you are in the Mabs process , they will back off.


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## Guinea pig

Thank you for the advice, I'll look into that andriod app, but I have a very basic phone. Really its just the credit Union that keep on ringing, Avant the odd time and I usually answer if its Halifax as they just don't have a clue.

I have found all the correspondence that I made since 2011 with my creditors and printed it off, though the answers to my letters were usually phone calls so it's all a bit one sided from an evidence point of view. 

Not much else I can do between now and the middle of Jan anyway.


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## Guinea pig

its a few days now since my meeting and it went very well.


There were a few issues, one of my creditors returned my letter unopened 13 weeks after I sent it, so I still need to chase them as I can't proceed until I have the answers to the questions. 

I need a screen shot from a car website to prove the market value of of my car. I bought it for €2k and have a hand written receipt from the person I bought it from but thats no good. 

The good news is I am living well below the living expenses on the isi website, so no issues there. 

As I am only paying 5% of the repayment I should be making, and the Credit Union loan is still accruing interest, there is a danger of me going over the €20,000 limit. But it is a catch 22 situation as I cannot pay anything extra off my CU loan as it would be preferential treatment. This could put the DRN in jeopardy. 

Also as of last winter, I owed €1000 arrears to the ESB, after they cut me off I got a meter. 25% of  each top up is paid off my bill. As I had spare money (like 3 / 6 euro I was paying this off the bill, this is also preferential treatment and I have to stop as this arrears is also seen as a creditor and the balance (now around 300 euro may be written off) 

I don't want this to be written off as if it is Electric Ireland will just cut me off and I don't have €300 as a deposit for another supplier,but I don't have a choice.  

I have a list of 9 further documents that I will have to get posted to MABS head office before I can ask for another appointment. 

Also the fees were explained to me, €100 to the court and €14 to a solicitor to witness my affidavit.  

Its all getting very real now but I only worry about it when I have to go photocopy the documents. 

Also no original documents can be sent to MABS which I found weird, you must send photocopies.


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## Bronte

I cannot believe you've been at this for more than 3 months and it's still not sorted. This is for minor amounts of money with someone who is really struggling. 

*Electricity*

The system should ensure that you do not end up getting cut off. It should be a rule of going into a DRN. Can you clarify, you now have a meter, when you put in say 20 Euro, you get 15 Euro of electricy, and they write 5 Euro off your overdue amount. In addition to this you were also overpaying by 3 to 6 Euro. But Mabs have told you not to pay the 3 to 6 Euro as this is 'overpaying.' Is this correct? 

But are you not 'overpaying' by the 25% as well. Therefore they are a 'preferential' creditor in this process. But I guess it's a condition of the meter that they take 25%. That too should not be allowed. 

I'm nearly sure that I heard on the radio recently, that one can switch supplier, without paying the previous supplier, someone else might clarify. This might be a solution. You switch, and stop paying the current supplier, let them be taken care of by the DRN and this solves the problem of worrying about being cut off, and having to pay 300 Euro deposit. 

*Creditors not replying*

There should be a rule that if they don't reply, then they get taken out of the the loop and any debt to them is ignored but the debtor now owes nothing. What kind of messing around is it for a creditor to ignore one. 

Guinea Pig, who is this creditor?

*Credit Union - going over the 20K problem*

The ISI/lawmakers should have thought of this, the rule should be when you start the process as long as you are under the 20K than it's fine, so that if the debts go over during the process the debtor is not penalised.

*9 more documents*


What further documentation could they possible now want from you. Didn't you already supply a load of documents. Are these new documents and what are they. 

This is all so very complicated and stressful for you.

*Fees*

While this might seem low at 100 plus 14, it's a struggle for people on low incomes.

*Living below ISI guidelines*

Does this mean your excess to pay people is increased, would you be better off if you instead lived at the ISI level?


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## Guinea pig

Electricity

*Yes, if I am in zero credit and I buy €20, by the time I enter the code into the meter, I will have €15 to cover standing charge and usage.

Because of this set up I am paying ESB above the rate that I am paying the other creditors, obviously I have no choice in the matter, but I cannot add the extra few quid in an effort to get away from the meter, as this is drastically over paying one creditor. 

Before you couldnt leave your supplier at all if you had arrears, now you can but you bring your arrears with you. Also if you have a meter, you pretty much cant leave as your new supplier need to remove the meter to install their meter. *

Creditors not replying

There should be a rule that if they don't reply, then they get taken out of the the loop and any debt to them is ignored but the debtor now owes nothing. What kind of messing around is it for a creditor to ignore one.

*Completely agree, but that is not the case. 
*

Guinea Pig, who is this creditor?

*Its Halifax, but it is transferred to a debt collector, when they transferred my account over they made massive mistakes, nobody knows the current balance, thankfully it is > €600.*

Credit Union - going over the 20K problem

The ISI/lawmakers should have thought of this, the rule should be when you start the process as long as you are under the 20K than it's fine, so that if the debts go over during the process the debtor is not penalised.

*True, especially as 2 creditors immediately transferred my account to debt collectors as soon as I submitted the preformatted MABS letters. These debt collectors can add interest and charges to beat the band. I have ignored any 'charges' they have applied for letters etc and MABS agree with this figure.

The CU charge €10 per letter about arrears, this adds a fair bit when you add interest etc.*

9 more documents


What further documentation could they possible now want from you. Didn't you already supply a load of documents. Are these new documents and what are they. 

This is all so very complicated and stressful for you.

Fees

While this might seem low at 100 plus 14, it's a struggle for people on low incomes.

*I have a plan in place to try get together ASAP. 
*

Living below ISI guidelines

Does this mean your excess to pay people is increased, would you be better off if you instead lived at the ISI level?

*No, I looked at the guidelines and I have chosen the 2A + 2 pre-school and 1 car figure and then add the rent.








 I wasn't sure that they would accept the reason I need a car for work as I work past 11pm (bus time) as a good enough reason. 

MABS agreed with me, so thats a relief. I dont need proof from work of my hours or anything, I obviously dont want to tell my colleagues why I'd need a letter about my hours so I was a bit worried about that. 

So for us, it was €1407.50 plus (2x66.27) plus rent of €500 per month. total: €2039 per month, we have well south of that figure.

The child benefit is not included.*

More documents:

*After MABS / ISI published the guidelines they later realised that applicants need their birth cert to prove their nationality.

I was told to included just my drivers, but this is not good enough.

Also as I send off all my documents in Nov, they are now all out of date, so I need my last 12 payslips, up to date utilities bills, receipts etc.*


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> *Also as I send off all my documents in Nov, they are now all out of date, so I need my last 12 payslips, up to date utilities bills, receipts etc.*


 
OK I guess, but it's a crazy system, we'll put it down to being new. 

Are you sure you cannot move ESB to a different supplier, why would the new one need a meter, if you sign up for a DD you should be able to get electricity by bill and with no deposit?  

(Should add the bit about the birth cert to the key post on DRN, plus a list of documents needed, by maybe those are on the ISI website or Mabs)


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## Guinea pig

I called bord gais, they can only transfer service when esb networks unlock the meter I have, so I cant move till the arrears are cleared. 

I cant see the DRN key post but will update if I find it.

There is a massive list of documents, more than 50 but luckily for me as I am applying solely, I don't have as many documents. I will have a full copy of my application in the next few weeks so I can list everything I have had to source.  

Also the lady from MABS did say there are about 100 applicants ready to go but they all got delayed with the change in the law in December. Nobody has submitted yet.


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## Bronte

So for others in the same predicament as you, if you get in trouble with the electricity and get cut off and they want to install a meter, this will mean you cannot switch supplier, so if you're going for a DRN, switch supplier first. Then you have your utility, and the arrears with the first supplier can just wait and be dealt with under the DRN.

I cannot remember, what was the law change in Dec? Is it correct to say that there is no DRN application at all submitted by anyone? When you say submitted, you mean by MABS to the insolvency service?

Information on insolvency (I cannot find a key post on DRN's, maybe there isn't one)

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...vency-process-service-director-says-1.1651543

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...insolvency/insolvency_service_of_ireland.html

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e.../personal_insolvency/debt_relief_notices.html

ISI website (reference is made to some legislative change, but I cannot figure out what - odd that in article in the Irish Times, the director of the ISI says no new legislative changes need to be made, I think there have been at least 3 legal changes so far, and I imagine based on the posts on AAM that more changes will have to be made - yesterday we discussed the fact that there is no time period for the OA to dispose of his interest in a bankrupt person's house etc)

[broken link removed] 

[broken link removed]

On page 7 of the above document, it has 3 lists, debts included, debts that cannot be included, but the 3rd category is debts that requires the creditor's consent. Basically it's taxes. Something for those seeking a DRN to be aware of.

First step seems to be to go to MABS, who are called AI's by the ISI. Mabs are supposed to guide you throught the process. Basically seems you have to fill out a form, contact all your creditors for how much you owe, submit all to Mabs, who check it and send the application to the ISI, who I suppose again check it and probably come back to Mabs with questions about the application, and eventually ISI sends it to court for approval, once approved your put up on the ISI website with your name in lights. It lasts 3 years, when you will be given a certificate of discharge and removed from the ISI website.

[broken link removed]

I cannot find the register on the ISI website, only the above link. But Guinea Pig said she had consulted it?


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## Guinea pig

[broken link removed]

Register of DRN, I just searched for popular irish names to see is anyone had been successful! 

I mean nobody has has their file submitted to the ISI by the AI(MABS).

And yes, your action in relation to the utilities is the best action, I hadn't even considered this. 



> First step seems to be to go to MABS, who are called AI's by the ISI. Mabs are supposed to guide you throught the process. Basically seems you have to fill out a form, contact all your creditors for how much you owe, submit all to Mabs, who check it and send the application to the ISI, who I suppose again check it and probably come back to Mabs with questions and them to the application, and eventually ISI sends it to court for approval, once approved your put up on the ISI website with your name in lights. It lasts 3 years, when you will be given a certificate of discharge and removed from the ISI website.



Pretty much, but access to the AIs are through an appointment system controlled by MABS, this lengthen the time between each appointment as you are only considered for an appointment when you have all the required documentation. 

I think the change in law was discussed on newstalk, possibly on Down to Business. I'll see it I can pull it out.


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## Bronte

Yes do see if you can figure out the legal change.  

How did you find dealing with Mabs, were they helpful, knowledgeable, kind, easy to deal with.  Would you consider Mabs a good organisation?

Were there any negatives, anything that could be improved?


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## Guinea pig

Well, the Credit Union called to my home today. 

Thankfully I wasn't there, but they left a note asking me to call the credit control dept. 

All I can think of doing is, writing to them telling them that I am pursuing a DRN and that I am awaiting the appointment of MABS to act on my behalf.

I would hate to have to have a meeting at my house as I would not feel comfortable asking the person if I could record the meeting, I prefer a phone call as it is automatically recorded. 

When he spoke to my partner he said he wasn't a debt collector etc but that he called out as he couldn't get in touch with me.....because I stopped answering the phone after I wrote to the Credit Union and told them that I was working with MABS and would be in touch before the end of Feb. 



> How did you find dealing with Mabs, were they helpful, knowledgeable, kind, easy to deal with. Would you consider Mabs a good organisation?
> 
> *From my limited experience with my AI, I would have no complaints, I was certainly treated with care and respect and empathy. I do get the feeling that this is all new but questions are recorded and answers researched.  *
> 
> Were there any negatives, anything that could be improved?
> 
> *My only issue is the appointment system,but I completely understand why it is in place. *


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## Guinea pig

So roll on 2 months and I submitted all the documents requested at the meeting and updated bank statements and payslips as they other ones were out of date.

The MABS appointment system automatically cancelled the DRN application due to in activity and I had to call to reactivate it again.

And so last week I received another request for another 8 documents and reason for credit and IBAN codes for each creditor. 

I would really like to hear from anyone else that has managed to get through this process... if they exist.


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## Bronte

Speechless.


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## Guinea pig

As of last week, everything is submitted and in the the AI's opinion if there are any issues with anything I have submitted the ISI will get back to her by email ASAP and she would have contacted me, so all seems OK.

My file will now be submitted to the district court at its next sitting by the ISI and I should get notification of the granting of the DRN in the post and the three year clock starts ticking from then. 

I still can't get clarification if my debt is wiped from the district court date or the date three years hence. I will just have to apply for an updated ICB report to see.  

The submission process in all took 4 hours. 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening.

The main issue that kept coming back was the situation with my partner, all debts are in my name, he pays me an amount per week and I pay all bills / household bills out of that. So for my income I put down my income from my employment and the contribution from my partner. The ISI seems to like this and have had issues with the vast array of different ways non married people finance their household expenses. My AI hinted that my set up may end up on new published guidelines in the future as they like the way it looks from an accounting point of view.  

I think in the end we were up to 450 sheets of paper in my file! My application was only about 30 sheets. 

Total cost €100 for the AI service and €10 for a solicitor to act a witness. 

So now I just wait....


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## so-crates

Have been following your progress with interest Guinea Pig, thanks for sharing with us. Fingers crossed now and good luck


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## Brendan Burgess

Guinea pig said:


> [broken link removed]
> 
> Register of DRN, I just searched for popular irish names to see is anyone had been successful!
> 
> I mean nobody has has their file submitted to the ISI by the AI(MABS).



Hi Guinea Pig

Your story is really informative and will be helpful to others.  Although, I hope it won't discourage others from applying. 

According to the attached extract from the ISI Quarterly report, the figures are as follows up to the end of Quarter 1.



 Applications for Debt Relief Notices|82
DRNs issued by courts|36It might not sound a lot, but it is a lot more than the DSAs and PIAs released. 

I wouldn't trust the Register.  If I applied as Brendán Burgess, or Brendán Brugha,  I probably wouldn't come up if you searched for Brendan Burgess. 

I tried a few B Murphy and M O'Neill   type names, but none came up.


Brendan


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## Bronte

What on earth is the point of a public register if nobody can search it.


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## so-crates

Depends on what you want to use it for. If you have the name of a person and need to establish their credentials you can use it (so you can use it to check a person out but not to look for any possible persons who are on the register)


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## Guinea pig

I would advise anybody to apply, there have been hiccups but they seem to be resolved.

My AI said the first few applications were returned for the same issues so special attention was paid to these issues later. 

when I have been through court, I hope to pass on all the issues I overcame when applying.


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## Bronte

That doesn't make sense.  Wasn't there a legal requirement for public register so that it could be checked, not checked if you needed to and had the exact spelling of a particular name.  

For example, take the property price register, they spelling on there can be brutal, and big mistakes can mean you don't initially spot what has been sold in a particular area, but by broadening your search you find all properties sold.

Eg:

Upper Leeson Street 

might be

Up. Leeson St. 

or 

Leeson St. Upper

Or 

Michael Francis Murphy

Mike F. Murphy


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## Brendan Burgess

I suspect that the ISI is against publishing the information but that the Act requires it, so they are just making it as difficult as possible for people to find it.

Brendan


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## Bronte

I don't see why they would be against the Act, in any case they should be abiding by the law.


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## Guinea pig

My DRN has been granted. I am on the register.


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## 110quests

Hi, I am glad that finally, after a situation which was long winding and testing, that you have been granted your DRN. Your future will be more content I hope


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## DebtCert

Good stuff.


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## so-crates

Well done Guinea Pig, now you can start marking the calendar  Am half tempted to search the register for "Guinea Pig" and see if you are registered as that


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## Guinea pig

No I have a fairly common 70's name! 

This morning I got 2 letters from creditors confirming that they have received notice of my DRN and assigning me an account contact with a direct line. 

Both say that they will be writing off the debt in the future and that it will be on the ICB report etc. So it looks like the 5 years for a clean ICB report doesn't start the day you get the DRN, its sometime after. I had planned on getting a copy of my report in a month or two but may leave it for a while now until I am sure that all debts have been written off. 

ESB account still shows a small balance owed, much smaller than the quoted amount on the court document as I was topping up the meter obviously as needed hence paying 25% of the top up off the debt. No idea how that is going to play out. 

But for now....I can answer the phone.


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## Bronte

Guinea pig said:


> But for now....I can answer the phone.


 
I'm so glad for you Guinea pig.  Don't stop the story here.  Please let us know about the 5 years and when it starts, and let us know what the creditors do, each of them.  

Very very happy for you, must be such a relief you can answer the phone.  

This thread has been most informative on how a DRN works in practice.  It will hopefully be of help to others.


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## Guinea pig

Will do, 1st bit of advice that I would pass on is the advice you gave about leaving your utility supplier as soon as you seek a DRN, I woudl make things so much easier to manage.


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## Guinea pig

Well it's been a while!
I'm sorry to resurect and old thread, but I thought it was important to report some things that happened.
On the DRN side, the 5 years are up but I haven't received anything to say that.
Then today I get a letter from AIB.
They say they were made aware of my DRN in 2014 and they made a mistake and didn't close my account.
Instead they are only closing my account now. So I think I'll have a bad record from this month for 6 years, not from 2014.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding that correctly, I'll try up load the letter.

I'll call the back on Monday for clarification and I'll also apply for a copy of my credit report.

I haven't applied for any finance since 2013 so haven't been negativity affected that way.


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## Brendan Burgess

You don't need to worry. Banks make mistakes but have procedures in place to correct them.





Your credit record will be correct as of 31st January next. 

Brendan


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