# What would you do with €30,000



## kaji84 (28 Sep 2013)

I know you're probably sick of reading these stupid posts, but I am stupid when it comes to finances so I'd appreciate any help. What would you do if you had €30000 and didn't need it for 5 years? I'd prefer as risk free as possible. I would really appreciate help from anyone


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## Billo (28 Sep 2013)

Buy prize bonds. You might get lucky.


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## kaji84 (28 Sep 2013)

Thanks Billo, but I had them before and won nothing.


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## Gervan (28 Sep 2013)

I don't think any of us can look 5 years ahead. The likelihood is that interest rates in the next 3 years are going to remain this low, or go even lower.
If you are part of a couple, I would put the 30K into Ptsb online saver at 2.25% and feed it into 2 Nationwide UK regular savings accounts, with 4% interest. 

Anything under €100,000 should be guaranteed in any bank in Ireland. Nationwide UK is under a UK guarantee.

I know that only takes you 15 months into the future but the whole picture may be different by then. Stay liquid, rather than tie funds up for 5 years.


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## johnfrancis (28 Sep 2013)

hi,

You should have bought one of these houses today. sold for 250,000 in the boom times.


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## pudds (28 Sep 2013)

With dirt tax and now prsi on deposit interest, I would be looking at AnPost 3yr savings bonds  and 5yr savings certificates which are tax free.

You can also get access to your cash at any time if necessary..


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## Jim2007 (28 Sep 2013)

Gervan said:


> I don't think any of us can look 5 years ahead. The likelihood is that interest rates in the next 3 years are going to remain this low, or go even lower.
> If you are part of a couple, I would put the 30K into Ptsb online saver at 2.25% and feed it into 2 Nationwide UK regular savings accounts, with 4% interest.



Ignoring the FX risk to start with... then there is the fact that UK rates are almost 4 times the mainland Euro rates... The UK bankers are not doing that because they are nice guys!


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## Gervan (28 Sep 2013)

Sorry, I did mean Nationwide UK Ireland, euro deposits, no FX risk.


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## NHG (29 Sep 2013)

I had €30k that I didn't need for about a year so I purchased prize bonds with it, to date I have won €600 & will be cashing them in before the end of next month.


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## Cantalia (29 Sep 2013)

Where is Nationwide UK? I never heard of them here, are they in Dublin only?


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## Marc (29 Sep 2013)

Here we see one of the biggest mistakes investors can make. Failing to clearly define their goals yet seeking advice on what to do with their money.

A better way to think about this problem is to seek to define what it is you are trying to achieve.

Why 5 years ? How much might you need before 5 years? Do you have other resources; savings, income etc. what happens in 5 years time? For many people its reinvestment so what is the real term here?

How old is the OP? Family circumstances? Employment? Retirement arrangements? Protection arrangements? Have they made a will?

These questions get to the heart of where the OP is and where they are trying to get to and nobody can offer any meaningful advice without properly defining these issues.

If you don't know where you are going, any map will do!


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## Lightning (29 Sep 2013)

kaji84 said:


> I know you're probably sick of reading these stupid posts, but I am stupid when it comes to finances so I'd appreciate any help. What would you do if you had €30000 and didn't need it for 5 years? I'd prefer as risk free as possible. I would really appreciate help from anyone



Set up an instant access account and several regular saver accounts. 

(1) The best instant access account, without restrictions, is 2.3% with KBC but withdrawals are cumbersome as you need to visit the branch or do it by post unless you have a current account with KBC which would incur fees. Hence, you might be best with the PTSB 2.25% online instant access account. Deposit the 30,000 EUR here and start drip feeding into regular saver accounts. 

(2) Set up a 4.00% Nationwide UK Ireland EUR regular saver account. Wire 1,000 EUR into the account each month. Keep an eye on the rate. Also, keep in mind that this account will mature in 1 year 3 months so you will need a new strategy then. 

(3) Set up a 3.5% KBC regular saver account. Direct debit 1,000 EUR a month into the account. Keep an eye on the rate.



Jim2007 said:


> Ignoring the FX risk to start with... then there is the fact that UK rates are almost 4 times the mainland Euro rates... The UK bankers are not doing that because they are nice guys!



Firstly, as pointed above, NUK offer EUR accounts in Ireland. GBP rates are not typically 4 times EUR deposit rates. GBP deposit rates have nose dived in the last year thanks to Cameron's mortgage help scheme which has left UK banks less dependent on deposits.


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## pudds (1 Oct 2013)

Pat Mackin said:


> The state savings returns have decreased dramatically in the last few years with Savings Certificates returns now at 11% over 5 years down from the previous 21%.




I'm aware of that but on a sum of 30k does the fact their dirt +prsi free not make them the best option.

If not how much would be the actual gain in interest earned be between them for all the trouble invested in drip feeding accounts etc.


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## so-crates (2 Oct 2013)

Marc said:


> Here we see one of the biggest mistakes investors can make. Failing to clearly define their goals yet seeking advice on what to do with their money.
> 
> A better way to think about this problem is to seek to define what it is you are trying to achieve.
> 
> ...



+1

Kaji84, I think before looking at any product, path or gameplan you need to sit down with yourself, look at your life now and over the next few years and define some goals and expectations, otherwise you will make a choice you may regret.


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## kaji84 (4 Oct 2013)

Marc said:


> Here we see one of the biggest mistakes investors can make. Failing to clearly define their goals yet seeking advice on what to do with their money.
> 
> A better way to think about this problem is to seek to define what it is you are trying to achieve.
> 
> ...



OP here. I should have been clearer. I'm 29, in secure employment (with contract), no plans to buy a house for at least 4 or 5 years. I'm single.


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## amtc (5 Oct 2013)

kaji84 said:


> OP here. I should have been clearer. I'm 29, in secure employment (with contract), no plans to buy a house for at least 4 or 5 years. I'm single.



I'll meet you at 8pm tomorrow then...

...seriously Prize Bonds not the worst idea...avg return is 3% and is easily encashable. I spoke to someone senior there last year, and lots and lots of people withdraw their bonds in October, when the self-employed tax returns go in, so it's a form of ring fenced saving but secure to pay Revenue


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## so-crates (5 Oct 2013)

kaji84 said:


> OP here. I should have been clearer. I'm 29, in secure employment (with contract), no plans to buy a house for at least 4 or 5 years. I'm single.





amtc said:


> I'll meet you at 8pm tomorrow then...



If amtc stands you up, I'm sure there'll be other takers 

Seriously though. You have given your current position but you haven't outlined goals and expectations. Are you thinking in five years that you want that €30k available to go towards a house purchase? Or will you be thinking of reinvesting all or part of it? What do you mean by risk-free? Do you mean by that €30k in, minimum €30k out? Bear in mind that the purchasing power of €30k in five years time may not be the same as now. Will you want to have access to the cash in the investment period? How much access would you want to have? Do you have other savings, if you do, how accessible are they? (In other words is this €30k your entire savings portfolio)


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## dub_nerd (7 Oct 2013)

Marc said:


> Here we see one of the biggest mistakes investors can make. Failing to clearly define their goals yet seeking advice on what to do with their money.
> 
> A better way to think about this problem is to seek to define what it is you are trying to achieve.
> 
> ...


 
I completely disagree with this. It's perfectly legitimate to ask what's the best return I can get on my money for five years. Someone who tells me that "nobody can offer any meaningful advice without properly defining these issues" is trying to sell me something.


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## Marc (7 Oct 2013)

Jeez well I am a Klutz! There I've been completing fact finds and writing statements of suitability for the last 20 years when all I had to do was pick the best rate from a website. Think of all the money I'll save in levies to the Central bank and professional indemnity insurance premiums. 

Incognito, unregulated opinions the future of financial advice.


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## Jim2007 (7 Oct 2013)

dub_nerd said:


> I completely disagree with this. It's perfectly legitimate to ask what's the best return I can get on my money for five years. Someone who tells me that "nobody can offer any meaningful advice without properly defining these issues" is trying to sell me something.



And if you have no idea what you are trying to achieve, then any solution will do...

The objective is to obtain the return you need to achieve your financial objectives, without taking on more risk than is needed to achieve that return.  The higher the return you need, the higher the risks you are going to have to take on, so it makes no since to risk everything going for a return of say 12.5% pa, if a lower return with a lower risk will get you where you need to be.  It is not a competition, although may people seem to think it is.


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## dub_nerd (7 Oct 2013)

Marc said:


> Jeez well I am a Klutz! There I've been completing fact finds and writing statements of suitability for the last 20 years when all I had to do was pick the best rate from a website. Think of all the money I'll save in levies to the Central bank and professional indemnity insurance premiums.
> 
> Incognito, unregulated opinions the future of financial advice.


 
And now that the OP has given more details, are you going to give him free advice over the Internet? I doubt it. He wanted some advice on best returns, "all other things being equal". You could have thrown out a few ideas, "all other things being equal", rather than tell him he can't decide anything at all until he goes into excruciating detail about his circumstances. 



Jim2007 said:


> And if you have no idea what you are trying to achieve, then any solution will do...
> 
> The objective is to obtain the return you need to achieve your financial objectives, without taking on more risk than is needed to achieve that return. The higher the return you need, the higher the risks you are going to have to take on, so it makes no since to risk everything going for a return of say 12.5% pa, if a lower return with a lower risk will get you where you need to be. It is not a competition, although may people seem to think it is.


 
That's incorrect. Very few people have a specific return in mind -- how could they possibly plan that with the vagaries of inflation etc.? People want to maximise their return while taking "acceptable" risk. The latter isn't strictly quantifiable. For instance, can you provide odds that you are prepared to stand over for each deposit taker in Ireland going bust in the next five years, or taking a deposit haircut? I doubt it, and if you told me I wouldn't believe you.

I think the people in the investment advice business on here need to understand that sometimes the questioner isn't sure what they want, and wants to ask some general questions. Telling them there's a million things to consider first is just going to scare them off.


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## Jim2007 (7 Oct 2013)

dub_nerd said:


> That's incorrect. Very few people have a specific return in mind -- how could they possibly plan that with the vagaries of inflation etc.? People want to maximise their return while taking "acceptable" risk. The latter isn't strictly quantifiable. For instance, can you provide odds that you are prepared to stand over for each deposit taker in Ireland going bust in the next five years, or taking a deposit haircut? I doubt it, and if you told me I wouldn't believe you.



Just because you can't predict with accuracy how things will turn out does not mean that you should not make a plan and track your progress on achieving it over time, adjusting it as needs be.  Now you and your friends may not do that, but I can assure you many, many people do.


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## so-crates (7 Oct 2013)

Locking away money for five years is not trivial - telling someone to think about why and to consider their preferred outcomes is not unreasonable. Yes the OP asked for savings suggestions but they also said they were naive about money and unsure of what they were doing, giving them the questions to ask of themselves is not to scare them away, it is to give them the first tools to building a plan for themselves. You can't learn by being handed an answer fait accompli, you need to strive for it to really understand.


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## dub_nerd (8 Oct 2013)

Jim2007 said:


> Just because you can't predict with accuracy how things will turn out does not mean that you should not make a plan and track your progress on achieving it over time, adjusting it as needs be. Now you and your friends may not do that, but I can assure you many, many people do.


 
I've no issue with that. My objection is to the idea that you make a plan in isolation and then look for an investment strategy to meet it. Ok, I've planned to make a return of 10 million percent, which is needed for my objective of owning a fleet of luxury yachts. Now what? Shouldn't the plan take into account the possible returns available and associated risks, which is what the OP was asking about?



so-crates said:


> Locking away money for five years is not trivial - telling someone to think about why and to consider their preferred outcomes is not unreasonable. Yes the OP asked for savings suggestions but they also said they were naive about money and unsure of what they were doing, giving them the questions to ask of themselves is not to scare them away, it is to give them the first tools to building a plan for themselves. You can't learn by being handed an answer fait accompli, you need to strive for it to really understand.


 
I've no issue with that either. But I don't accept that "nobody can offer any meaningful advice without properly defining these issues". That's simply not true.


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## Dawn Run (10 Oct 2013)

Hi all
Not wishing to hi-jack the thread ....but I'm in the same position, having €35k. to invest and looking for security and a good return. Would I be mad to buy Prize Bonds for say 12 months...or should I go for 4 yr. or 10 yr National Solidarity Bond ? 
Thanks.


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## facetious (13 Oct 2013)

amtc said:


> I'll meet you at 8pm tomorrow then...
> 
> ...seriously Prize Bonds not the worst idea...avg return is 3% and is easily encashable. I spoke to someone senior there last year, and lots and lots of people withdraw their bonds in October, when the self-employed tax returns go in, so it's a form of ring fenced saving but secure to pay Revenue


I've had two bonds for over 50 years and never won a thing.


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## postman pat (17 Nov 2013)

cash them in id say..


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