# Specific locations of Covid-19 outbreaks.



## Tintagel (19 Dec 2020)

Latest COVID-19 news and updates | NSW Government 

Is there any reason why we cannot have specific locations of outbreaks of Covid-19 in Ireland like they have in Australia and other places?


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## Paul O Mahoney (19 Dec 2020)

Well we have it by county and I believe each county then has broken down into lea's by the Council. 
I'm in Kildare and have seen such breakdowns all year.


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## Tintagel (19 Dec 2020)

What are leas?  Thanks


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## RedOnion (19 Dec 2020)

Tintagel said:


> What are leas?  Thanks


Local Electoral Areas.









						COVID-19 Ireland
					

Ireland's COVID-19 Data Hub



					covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com


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## Tintagel (20 Dec 2020)

Our information given is Local Electoral Areas. However I was referring to New South Wales, Australia where local areas and businesses are named.

Latest COVID-19 news and updates | NSW Government


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## Paul O Mahoney (20 Dec 2020)

Tintagel said:


> Our information given is Local Electoral Areas. However I was referring to New South Wales, Australia where local areas and businesses are named.
> 
> Latest COVID-19 news and updates | NSW Government


Don't know how that would be done,  and given privacy laws don't think it would be legal. 
I personally would think that it would be very wrong for this to even be considered.


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## Paul O Mahoney (20 Dec 2020)

BaBa BlackSheep said:


> I’m sure there’s an unofficial FaceBook page that’ll have all the details.
> There’s one specific to outbreaks in schools. I’d be surprised if there aren’t more.


What's an " unofficial Facebook page? Do you mean a fake news page? I'm at a loss to understand your post or its relevance.


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## Odea (21 Dec 2020)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Don't know how that would be done, and given privacy laws don't think it would be legal.
> I personally would think that it would be very wrong for this to even be considered.


I would certainly like more detailed information on where outbreaks are. 

Another thing. In the early days of Covid we were given the median age of those who died. Is this information still available or was it considered to be too upsetting for people?

Also, we were told not to handle our Facemasks. Now it seems that they are left hanging below the chin and moved up and down as needs be. Lots of handling.


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## Paul O Mahoney (21 Dec 2020)

Odea said:


> I would certainly like more detailed information on where outbreaks are.
> 
> Another thing. In the early days of Covid we were given the median age of those who died. Is this information still available or was it considered to be too upsetting for people?
> 
> Also, we were told not to handle our Facemasks. Now it seems that they are left hanging below the chin and moved up and down as needs be. Lots of handling.


When the meat plants were identified to be a source of substantial cases the amount of anger and victimisation of the workers ( mostly low paid immigrants)was not a pleasant thing to witness. 
Where I am in Kildare it caused an awful lot of people to say things that really have no place in any just society. 
The virus is many things and its important that we collectively tackle it and not single out any section of society as use them as scapegoats which is what would happen. 

As for the median age I'm sure its somewhere in the data .

People are people,  mask wearing isn't a normal thing for us in this part of the world but the bigger issue is that people are wearing them and if the 2 meter distancing is observed and people sanitize there hands its my opinion that its not an issue. 

You have to remember last March the amount of knowledge around the virus was minimal and any guidance was haphazard.

Now we have a new strain and we are essentially back trying to understand it from a huge amount of perspectives,  including its impact on existing vaccines, somewhere the facts reside but the most important thing in my view is that all resources available need to be used in combating the virus together and not singling out sections of society. 

We need to be in this together if we are to stand any chance of defeating or at least containing the virus, this virus is here to stay and its still going to infect and kill people.


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## EmmDee (21 Dec 2020)

BaBa BlackSheep said:


> I find the median age meaningless.
> The mean age would be far more informative and more could be inferred from it.



I would argue the opposite. In a non-normal distribution or a dataset with outliers, the mean will be skewed by the outliers. The median is the more useful


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## Odea (22 Dec 2020)

'200 persons present, no social distancing': Gardaí continue to detect Covid-19 breaches at licensed premises (thejournal.ie) 

Are all of the people associated with the above article NOT getting Covid?   It makes the rest of us feel like fools for not joining them.

That is why I would like to have specific information on where the cases are coming from.  Am I a fool about being nervous going in to a supermarket?

Here is a brief thread on Tripadvisor about people travelling from the UK etc. to Ireland.


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## Paul O Mahoney (22 Dec 2020)

Odea said:


> '200 persons present, no social distancing': Gardaí continue to detect Covid-19 breaches at licensed premises (thejournal.ie)
> 
> Are all of the people associated with the above article NOT getting Covid?   It makes the rest of us feel like fools for not joining them.
> 
> ...


As I got older in life I made a decision to ignore what the rest are doing and concentrate on my life and do whatever is necessary to protect myself and my family. 

I went for a pint on Sunday and where I was was a beer garden type set up plenty of space , sat there reading the newspaper and one person decided to walk 10 paces to put out his cigarette in an ashtray 2 ft from me, eventough there was one next to him.

He then tries to start a conversation I said " 2 meters please", and the usual claptrap happens and this is a lad in his twentys,  they simply don't care, let them off "you can't put in what God left out " .
Once we follow the guidelines we should be fine,  knowing where there are outbreaks isn't going to protect you anymore than not knowing.


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## Leo (22 Dec 2020)

Odea said:


> That is why I would like to have specific information on where the cases are coming from.



One challenge there is you are depending on people who are knowingly breaking the rules admitting to such in contact tracing. When we have so many close contacts refusing to show up for testing, it's likely that those who want to continue to socialise with friends in the local boozer will not name that when asked to detail their movements. Without massive resources invested in verifying the source of outbreaks, you risk destroying compliant businesses. Also, if you start publishing a list of premises associated with an outbreak, people will start to let their guard down in other settings.


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## Odea (23 Dec 2020)

Leo said:


> One challenge there is you are depending on people who are knowingly breaking the rules admitting to such in contact tracing.


Yes, that is the problem. The guy or woman having the affair or buying some weed or going to the holiday home or even the person "embarrassed" to say that they had friends or family over or a visiting hairdresser......but other countries are doing it.......naming businesses or buildings associated with outbreaks.  I think it could be done in some shape or form.


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## SoylentGreen (23 Dec 2020)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> As I got older in life I made a decision to ignore what the rest are doing and concentrate on my life and do whatever is necessary to protect myself and my family.
> 
> I went for a pint on Sunday and where I was was a beer garden type set up plenty of space , sat there reading the newspaper and one person decided to walk 10 paces to put out his cigarette in an ashtray 2 ft from me, eventough there was one next to him.


During the week I was visiting my local Credit Union in Blackrock. First time since last March. Three allowed in the office at a time.
I was standing outside waiting for those inside to come out. A lady walks out wearing a visor and no mask.  The sides of the visor had large gaps. In the area in front of her mouth you could see a big wet patch on the plastic with her breath/saliva running down the inside, waiting to drip off. It looked disgusting.

I had to take a decision to go in to the Credit Union and stand at the counter where this person had just been standing. It was a split second decision that I had to make.  I took the decision to go ahead in to the office, rightly or wrongly.

The problem is that we are all being confronted with these decisions throughout the day during Covid. We all want to protect ourselves and our family but we are not all going to be perfect in our decision making.


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## Paul O Mahoney (23 Dec 2020)

SoylentGreen said:


> During the week I was visiting my local Credit Union in Blackrock. First time since last March. Three allowed in the office at a time.
> I was standing outside waiting for those inside to come out. A lady walks out wearing a visor and no mask.  The sides of the visor had large gaps. In the area in front of her mouth you could see a big wet patch on the plastic with her breath/saliva running down the inside, waiting to drip off. It looked disgusting.
> 
> I had to take a decision to go in to the Credit Union and stand at the counter where this person had just been standing. It was a split second decision that I had to make.  I took the decision to go ahead in to the office, rightly or wrongly.
> ...


The staff should have wiped down that area it would take a few seconds. 
I thought visors were deemed useless and were not recommended to be used.

Like everything there are good practices happening and poor ones , I was in Tesco yesterday and each check out was wiped after each customer passed through.


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## huskerdu (23 Dec 2020)

I’m interested in knowing why you want this information. Do you think we should name and shame or do you think the information will help you ? 

Naming and shaming may be unfair on establishments which had an outbreak due to someone visiting who had covid and may not be a reflection on the establishment, 
A list of where there were outbreaks is not going to really help us. We already have summary stats on the sources of outbreaks. If you know that there are a certain number of outbreaks in restaurants, you can decide not to go to restaurants. Avoiding the Ones which have already had an outbreak isn’t going to help you avoid an outbreak in a different restaurant 

As was said above , we all need to do our best and make decisions on what behaviour
We are comfortable with


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## SoylentGreen (23 Dec 2020)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I thought visors were deemed useless and were not recommended to be used.


Exactly.  Yet, why is this message not getting through to the people wearing them?  Are their close friends or colleagues afraid to mention it to them? Should members of the public point it out to them?


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## Paul O Mahoney (23 Dec 2020)

SoylentGreen said:


> Exactly.  Yet, why is this message not getting through to the people wearing them?  Are their close friends or colleagues afraid to mention it to them? Should members of the public point it out to them?


I would but then again when you do you get the stares, and the excuse that you should us sanitizer both on entering and exiting the premises,  which would do but going the extra mile by wiping down the area really shows responsibility and respect in my opinion.


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## odyssey06 (23 Dec 2020)

BaBa BlackSheep said:


> Yes, completely useless.
> As are masks that are handled by any part other than the straps, or have been placed in a pocket or handbag without the use of a ziplock bag, or have been lowered below the chin for a cigarette, etc etc.
> In early July the Covid case numbers in Ireland were in the single digits. In mid July we were advised to wear facemasks. Since then the numbers have been on the up.
> I realise that correlation is not causation, but I’m wondering if the use of face masks has placed us in a false state of security.
> And the improper use of facemasks is helping to spread the virus.



The real purpose of face masks is as a barrier to contain your own droplets, most of the things listed above do not render it useless for that purpose.
There was a study in Denmark that tracked use of masks versus non-masks there was a slight protective element to wearing a mask (something on the order of 20% less cases).
The study did not have scope to look into use as barriers.

Proper use of face masks enhances its PPE to you, but does not diminish its use as a barrier - assuming you have it covering your nose and mouth.

Fomite \ contact transmission is now considered to account for only a small % of transmissions as this virus attacks via the nose and respiratory system.

I think people just aren't as concerned as they were in the spring nothing to do with masks.


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## SoylentGreen (24 Dec 2020)

Paul O Mahoney said:


> As for the median age I'm sure its somewhere in the data .


We have had 26 deaths in two days.  This figure seems very high.  Is there a problem "again" in the Nursing Homes?


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## RedOnion (24 Dec 2020)

SoylentGreen said:


> We have had 26 deaths in two days


No, we haven't. 
We've had 26 deaths notified in 2 days. Taking yesterday as an example, of the 13 deaths notified, 10 occured in December.



SoylentGreen said:


> Is there a problem "again" in the Nursing Homes?


The 2 cases I'm personally aware of in the past 5 days, had nothing to do with nursing homes.


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## SoylentGreen (24 Dec 2020)

RedOnion said:


> Taking yesterday as an example, of the 13 deaths notified, 10 occured in December.


Have the numbers in ICU dropped as a result of the deaths?   Were these people ever in ICU in the first place?

I would have thought that a sick person would go in to hospital, then ICU?



RedOnion said:


> he 2 cases I'm personally aware of in the past 5 days, had nothing to do with nursing homes.


So are people dying at home?  I am just curious as to why they would not go the hospital then ICU route?


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## RedOnion (24 Dec 2020)

SoylentGreen said:


> So are people dying at home? I am just curious as to why they would not go the hospital then ICU route?


No, the cases I spoke of both died in ICU. But they weren't in Nursing Homes before they caught it. I was commenting on your question about nursing homes.


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## odyssey06 (24 Dec 2020)

There may have been a clinical assessement on the patients condition that ICU would not have helped.


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## SlugBreath (11 Jul 2021)

We are back up at 500 cases a day.  Why are we not given a breakdown of the ages of the people getting the virus. It cannot be an IT issue?  If they can collect the numbers then I would imagine it would be easy to collect the ages?  I would hate to think that some people who are fully vaccinated are catching Covid but we are not to be told this information in case it effects the vaccine rollout.

Also, we were told recently that we had reached the 5000 death.  How do they know this?  I thought that they couldn't collect this information.


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