# "Just because Brussels gives me a mandate to stop the rain..."



## Brendan Burgess (30 Jan 2019)

I heard a European politician dismissing the UK Parliament's mandate to Teresa May to negotiate away the backstop saying "It's as meaningless as giving me a mandate to stop the rain from falling...". It's not going to have any effect. 

The whole thing is a farce. 

Brendan


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## RETIRED2017 (30 Jan 2019)

I suspect it is the start of talking MPs round to voting to stay in the custom union,
Face saving is the name of the game being played out in HOC,


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## odyssey06 (30 Jan 2019)

If europe was run by people with a mandate maybe britain wouldnt want to leave.
More honest to leave than to do what france hungary poland greece do and just ignore what they dont want to do.


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jan 2019)

Nothing Ireland can do to deal with a tory party schism yet we will likely suffer more than the UK  

Never mind no pay rises for nurses, we may have to cut pay  

Bad brexit = all bets off


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## RETIRED2017 (30 Jan 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> If europe was run by people with a mandate maybe britain wouldnt want to leave.
> More honest to leave than to do what france hungary poland greece do and just ignore what they dont want to do.


Most who voted to leave to stop Johnny Foreigner'


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jan 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Most who voted to leave to stop Johnny Foreigner'



Yet still claim the UK don't want a hard border on the island of Ireland


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## RETIRED2017 (30 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Yet still claim the UK don't want a hard border on the island of Ireland


The Issue of a border did not come up in 2016 before vote, I expect any talk with EU will involve how to stop Johnny foreigner using Ireland/ NI to get to UK in the unlikely event of no Custom Union,


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jan 2019)

RETIRED2017 said:


> The Issue of a border did not come up in 2016 before vote, I expect any talk with EU will involve how to stop Johnny foreigner using NI to get to UK,



Thar it didn't cross voters mind is a damming indictment of how little mainland brits care about Northern Ireland


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## RETIRED2017 (30 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Thar it didn't cross voters mind is a damming indictment of how little mainland brits care about Northern Ireland


I suspect lots thought Ireland was still part of UK,


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## Gordon Gekko (30 Jan 2019)

Brexit was brought about by three main cohorts:

- Cynical toffs like Jacob Rees Mogg. His wealth sits in IFSC-based Somerset Capital. In a post-hard Brexit dystopian United Kingdom, his Euros and Dollars would enable him to buy up half of Surrey.

- The moronic underclass who have no idea what’s going on; they looks for restaurants with pictures of the food outside when on holidays. They may even work for Nissan in Sunderland but think voting to leave makes sense. They’re against immigration but it’s actually Commonwealth immigration that grinds their gears; they don’t even realise that EU migrants are significant net contributors to the Treasury.

- Selfish older people who hark back to Britain’s glory days and the Commonwealth; totally misguided and see above re racism/immigration.


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## galway_blow_in (30 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Brexit was brought about by three main cohorts:
> 
> - Cynical toffs like Jacob Rees Mogg. His wealth sits in IFSC-based Somerset Capital. In a post-hard Brexit dystopian United Kingdom, his Euros and Dollars would enable him to buy up half of Surrey.
> 
> ...



Annoys me  when some media commentators claim we can help out our neighbours here. 

We have no business getting involved in a crisis within English nationalism.


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## Cervelo (31 Jan 2019)

"Is there _anything_ to be said for another mass?"


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## mathepac (31 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> They may even work for Nissan in Sunderland but think voting to leave makes sense.


Renault of course owns 44% of Nissan, which in turn owns a chunk of Renault shares. Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi-Infiniti but intrinsically British and not one whit owned Johnny Foreigner in the minds of their Sunderland employees no doubt.

The Brexit/bad Brexit is gonna cost us dear. Do May & Co understand what they've agreed to, do they not understand that Non means No?

And when will British (and some unducated Irish) commentators stop referring to the "Irish  border"? It is not an Irish border and never was. It is a British border imposed on the island of Ireland by the British when they gerrrymandered its creation post occupation. Typical Brit withdrawal - partition everyone and everything and leave decades of death and misery in their wake. India/Afghanistan/Pakistan anyone, just as an example?


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jan 2019)

mathepac said:


> Renault of course owns 44% of Nissan, which in turn owns a chunk of Renault shares. Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi-Infiniti but intrinsically British and not one whit owned Johnny Foreigner in the minds of their Sunderland employees no doubt.
> 
> The Brexit/bad Brexit is gonna cost us dear. Do May & Co understand what they've agreed to, do they not understand that Non means No?
> 
> And when will British (and some unducated Irish) commentators stop referring to the "Irish  border"? It is not an Irish border and never was. It is a British border imposed on the island of Ireland by the British when they gerrrymandered its creation post occupation. Typical Brit withdrawal - partition everyone and everything and leave decade of death and misery in their wake. India/Afghanistan/Pakistan anyone, just as an example?



The brits are terrifyingly ignorant of their own history and geography it seems


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## Purple (31 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Thar it didn't cross voters mind is a damming indictment of how little mainland brits care about Northern Ireland


There's no "Mainland Britain". There's just "Britain". The "Mainland" is where France and Germany are. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is not part of Britain and never was. 

Brexit is proof positive that Conor Cruise O'Brien was right; the irony is that the only way Northern Unionism will survive is within a United Ireland because the English, and their hinterlands of Wales and Scotland, don't care a damn about them.


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## jokerini (1 Feb 2019)

There was little or no talk about the customs union/trade during the Brexit referendum. It was all about immigration. 

Since then, it's obvious that the UK has tried to isolate Ireland, hoping that the EU will throw us under the bus. It hasn't happened yet.

Instead, the UK could solve its backstop dilemma by expelling Northern Ireland from the UK.


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## Purple (1 Feb 2019)

The UK's position is the backstop is not necessary as it is possible to have a "technological solution" to the land border between the UK and the EU. If that was true then they wouldn't have a problem with the backstop in the first place.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Feb 2019)

Purple said:


> There's no "Mainland Britain". There's just "Britain". The "Mainland" is where France and Germany are. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is not part of Britain and never was.
> 
> Brexit is proof positive that Conor Cruise O'Brien was right; the irony is that the only way Northern Unionism will survive is within a United Ireland because the English, and their hinterlands of Wales and Scotland, don't care a damn about them.



Ironic you cite Conor cruise o Brien who was staunchly opposed to a united Ireland


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## RETIRED2017 (1 Feb 2019)

jokerini said:


> There was little or no talk about the customs union/trade during the Brexit referendum. It was all about immigration.
> 
> Since then, it's obvious that the UK has tried to isolate Ireland, hoping that the EU will throw us under the bus. It hasn't happened yet.
> 
> Instead, the UK could solve its backstop dilemma by expelling Northern Ireland from the UK.


I think they will solve it by staying in the CU which May wanted all along but could not come out and say so until the anti CU wing ran out of options,


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## Purple (1 Feb 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Ironic you cite Conor cruise o Brien who was staunchly opposed to a united Ireland


I was never a fan of his but to be fair he was opposed to a united Ireland without the consent of the majority in Northern Ireland, a position which was very unpopular in the 60's and 70's but the vast majority in this country now support. His argument was that it is, ironically, in the interest of Unionism to give that consent. It was that view that caused him to be kicked out of/resign from the UK Unionist Party.


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## cremeegg (1 Feb 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> The whole thing is a farce.



If the Italian parliament for example was serving up this nonsense, can you just imaging the scathing derision that would be heaped upon the Italians by those elements in England who are most in favour of Brexit.

My contact in the Berlaymont tells me that the staff of the Commission and the permanent reps of the 27 are all so fed up and bored with the whole thing that England may struggle to get an extension.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Feb 2019)

I like the UK but the brits are an awkward stubborn people, stubborn for the sake of it in the case of Northern unionists


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## john luc (3 Feb 2019)

History tells us that nothing stays the same. Like so many empires the English one faded and like so many former empire countries they take a long time to get over it. Russia is trying to rekindle and so are being a nuisance to their neighbours. Let us hope that a future English led Britain does not revert back to similar. As a small country we have enjoyed a fairly peaceful time having no major aggressor threatening our existence and I hope that does not change.


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## john luc (3 Feb 2019)

As we live in this time period of the world I always like to say that geography is our main defence as we are more or less out of the way of big bully country's who would walk back and forward through us to get at each other.


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## mathepac (3 Feb 2019)

We have no need to have others impose misery on us, our own are doing a great job in that respect currently. Crooked cops, uncaring nurses, greedy politicians - a lot of it documented in today's Sunday Times.


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## Purple (4 Feb 2019)

john luc said:


> As we live in this time period of the world I always like to say that geography is our main defence as we are more or less out of the way of big bully country's who would walk back and forward through us to get at each other.


The "At least we're no Poland" argument. Yes, it has considerable merit. We only had to contend with the English. The Polish were sandwiched between Russia and Germany/Prussia.


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## Folsom (5 Apr 2019)

I keep hearing from Brexiteers that the UK will not put up customs controls infrastructure on the UK side of the border in Ireland. Apparently, they say, there is no need. Is this true?
And if it is, then presumably the UK will have no need to put up any borders anywhere else between it and EU? 
Wouldn't that make a mockery of the brexiteer slogan "take control of our borders"?


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## Peanuts20 (5 Apr 2019)

Brexit is all about immigration and a desire by English people to reduce the level of foreigners to move to their country. Ironically the bulk of these move to London and that voted to remain. I recall a senior manager in a multi-national telling me he was voting to leave because he was fed up seeing Polish food in Tesco's. 

Throw in the fact that there is a an arrogance in Britain about their position in the world "We're British!! why wouldn't everyone bend over backwards to give us what we need" which dates back to their empire. Brexit has been a bit of a come-uppance for them in that respect

As for Northern Ireland, deep down most English people (and lets not forget Brexit should probably be called Engexit) don't give a damm about the place and don't really consider it truely British. Try giving an Ulster Bank tenner to a taxi driver in London or a shop in Sunderland and see what the reaction is.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Apr 2019)

I had forgotten this thread. This is another quote in the same vein...

*EU on no-deal Brexit vote: ‘Like Titanic voting for the iceberg to move’*
* Brussels spokesman offers withering assessment of MPs’ decision on Wednesday night *


I also heard someone say that the Brexit votes in the House of Commons was as if the British MPs had voted for the iceberg to move which I think is better again.


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## Folsom (5 Apr 2019)

Peanuts20 said:


> Brexit is all about immigration and a desire by English people to reduce the level of foreigners to move to their country



I agree, but im disappointed that no-one has called them out on this 'no need for a hard border between UK/EU in Ireland' line. The obvious way to expose this is ask what makes the border in Ireland so special that it requires no customs posts while every other border in UK, at airports and shipping ports, will require customs checks with EU.


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## mathepac (5 Apr 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I also heard someone say that the Brexit votes in the House of Commons was as if the British MPs had voted for the iceberg to move


 in full expectation that it would agree!


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## elcato (5 Apr 2019)

Folsom said:


> The obvious way to expose this is ask what makes the border in Ireland so special that it requires no customs posts while every other border in UK, at airports and shipping ports, will require customs checks with EU.


Didn't they say something like "We have the technology to do this with cameras and computers ...." or somefink like vat ....


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## Folsom (5 Apr 2019)

elcato said:


> Didn't they say something like "We have the technology to do this with cameras and computers ...." or somefink like vat ....



Yes, but the obvious question would be, why not install this technology at all your other customs posts with EU and have frictionless trade there too?
The irony of all this is that Brexit was supposed to herald a new free trade era for Britain and restrict migration. Instead, trade will be hampered and migration (illegal or otherwise) will continue unabated.


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## Romulan (6 Apr 2019)

I now think of it as a friend at your house party.

They are drunk, which was fun for a while.
Then they got messy and abusive.

You now need them to leave because at this point, its just the lesser of 2 evils despite the future impact it will have on your relationship.


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## WolfeTone (18 May 2019)

Hi 

Apologies if im somewhat behind the curve in this, but this looks like a topic about the madness of Brexit. 
I should state im am not opposed to Britain leaving the EU, its just the manner and reasoning that is mad. 
So I saw an interview today with Nigel Farage. He who against too much immigration and who is pals with Donald Trump, also trying to curb immigration into the US. 
Anyway, during the interview, Farage - without a hint of humility or awareness of what he was saying, told the interviewer that he was planning to go to the US to start a new career as a media pundit. 
I follow quite a broad spectrum of US news and I cannot recall ever hearing that there was shortage of media pundits. 
So it really grates at me the arrogance of people like Farage who automatically think it is ok for them to become an immigrant to another country and simultaneously make a career out of trying to deny that option for others.
Makes me sick.

There, got that off my chest. 
Thanks.


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## newtothis (18 May 2019)

There are plenty of “people like Farage”, unfortunately. Even the language they use betrays the mindset: British people retiring to Spain are “expats”, Polish plumbers coming to work in the UK are “immigrants”. It just doesn’t compute in that world view the expats and immigrants are one and the same thing.


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## losttheplot (18 May 2019)

Or our own 'undocumented' in the US.


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## elcato (23 May 2019)

WolfeTone said:


> So it really grates at me the arrogance of people like Farage who automatically think it is ok for them to become an immigrant to another country and simultaneously make a career out of trying to deny that option for others.


There is a huge differance. He will not turn up on the doorstep of US border control and say he has no documents. He will go through the same process as anyone seeking a working visa in the US prior to going. He can also be refused a working visa on the basis that as you state 'there are others here in the US who can do that function'.


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## Leo (23 May 2019)

elcato said:


> There is a huge differance. He will not turn up on the doorstep of US border control and say he has no documents.



Farage's focus isn't on undocumented immigrants.


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## Purple (24 May 2019)

Teresa is gone. 
Bad and all that she was she was still better than Boris the buffoon or Geremy the old school communist.


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## odyssey06 (24 May 2019)

Is Boris sure to get onto the ballot? I know he is very popular with the party membership.
But looking at the rules it seems to be Conservative MPs that whittle down the contenders to 2, and then the party membership vote on that ballot.


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## EmmDee (24 May 2019)

odyssey06 said:


> Is Boris sure to get onto the ballot? I know he is very popular with the party membership.
> But looking at the rules it seems to be Conservative MPs that whittle down the contenders to 2, and then the party membership vote on that ballot.



He splits the parliamentary party but I think has enough support to be one of the two - even those who might prefer other hard Brexit types, he'll be seen as massively popular with the rest of the party and therefore "very electable". And someone who can take on Farage. This is their problem - they will analyse it as having to reclaim Brexit party voters. But if they go after that group, they will lose traditional "one nation" conservative support.

Absolute mess


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## Seagull (24 May 2019)

It doesn't matter what the conservatives do. They have made themselves unelectable for at least a generation. I'd say the SNP would have a better chance of winning a majority in England right now if they ran candidates.


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## WolfeTone (24 May 2019)

BJ, in my opinion, would be another self-inflicted blow on the Tories. 
The man is a rabble-rouser. He is good fun, witty, intelligent, engaging. He is not however a deal-maker, nor someone who carries broad consensus to get political deals done. 
Worst of all, he was very late in the game for Brexit. In terms of stature amongst the brexiteer support base, Farage stands head and shoulders above.


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## john luc (24 May 2019)

I hope they elect Boris. They deserve him


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## WolfeTone (26 May 2019)

elcato said:


> There is a huge differance. He will not turn up on the doorstep of US border control and say he has no documents.



I don't think EU migrants turn up at UK without documents?


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