# Will bank enforce judgement on home



## joanj (24 Dec 2017)

Bank of Ireland has informed me that they are putting a judgement on my home,I sold an investment property that was in negative equity to the tune of in excess of 100,000,I made an offer of 10,000 that a family member was going to lend me but the offer was rejected.my house has a mortgage of €60,000 with value of €150,000,I am on interest only payment for 5 years.i understand a judgement will die after 12 years but at that stage assuming I can resume a full mortgage payment I will owe little on the house.what is the likelihood of the bank enforcing a sale before the 12 years are up.nither myself or my husband have a pension so the thoughts of being put out of our home is calling me great distress.any advice please.


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## joanj (5 Jan 2018)

Does anyone have experience of having a judgement put on their house in relation to residual debt after selling an investment property.Loan is with a different lender. Home mortgage is in positive equity.Can they force you to sell your home.


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## elcato (5 Jan 2018)

I'm pretty sure they can't and if they can, I've never heard of anyone who were forced to. It's basically covering themselves should you sell for any reason.


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## lukas888 (5 Jan 2018)

Was the investment property mortgage in joint names?


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## joanj (5 Jan 2018)

Yes both investment property and family home in both names.I know a judgement runs out after 12 years but it's a huge threat hanging over us that's there's even a possibility that bank could call it in by forcing us to sell our home,


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## cremeegg (5 Jan 2018)

joanj said:


> Loan is with a different lender....Can they force you to sell your home.



As far as I know the banks do not generally force homes to be sold to satisfy judgement mortgages.

In your case your home mortgage is with Bank A and the judgement mortgage is with bank B. 

Bank B cannot force the sale of your home without the agreement of Bank A who have a first charge. Again this is as far as I know, I am not a solicitor. Be sure that the home mortgage is not cleared within the 12 years.


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## joanj (5 Jan 2018)

I only owe about €60,000 on my house so in 12 years no matter how the payments are stretched out there will be very little owed on it,I would actually be better off if I had a bigger mortgage.Its a nitemare of a situation but they would not agree to full and final settlement when the commercial property was sold.I made a small offer plus full proceeds of the sale but it was refused so there are no other options open to me unfortunately.


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## Palerider (6 Jan 2018)

Contact your lender with the residual debt, provide them with an honest assessment of your joint assets and liabilities, income and expenditure, then make that offer again in writing or offer an instalment payment.


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## cremeegg (6 Jan 2018)

Palerider said:


> Contact your lender with the residual debt, provide them with an honest assessment of your joint assets and liabilities, income and expenditure, then make that offer again in writing or offer an instalment payment.



Sorry but is bad advice.

Your lender has got a judgement mortgage in place on your home for the residual debt due on a now sold buy to let.

There is nothing to negotiate. The lender can if they wish *try* to force the sale of your home to satisfy the judgement mortgage.

There are a number of obstacles in their way in doing this. A judge would have to agree to make you homeless, the primary mortgage holder would have first claim on the sale proceeds, the legal costs to the lender would be significant. As far as I know no bank in the country has a policy of trying to force a sale in cases like this.

To get where you are now must have been the result of a long process. That process is now finished. The result is that the bank has a judgement mortgage. 

The bank can if they wish open a new process to force the sale of your home. It is unlikely that they will. But you should do nothing at this point. There is nothing for you to do. 

Contacting them with some type of plan would be very foolish.

Thats my opinion.


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## lukas888 (6 Jan 2018)

Your are in a  slightly better position as your home mortgage is with a different lender,and if you alone were on the hook for the residual debt the judgement mortgage would be worthless.I agree fully with cremeegg do nothing it's highly unlikely the lender will do anything.


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## TLO (6 Jan 2018)

A couple of thoughts..

1)  Before BOI register a judgement on you family home they need to obtain judgement.  Probably in the High Court as the shortfall involved (€100k) is above Circuit Court jurisdiction.  Has BOI obtained judgement against you?  Or are they just threatening to do so?

2)  Jim Stafford suggests that Judgement Mortgages are of limited value in this thread:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/judgment-mortgages-on-family-homes-have-little-value.199702/

3)  If a Judgement Mortgage has been registered, Jim Stafford suggests that it may be possible to get it removed by obtaining a Protective Certificate but that this must be done within 3 months of the registration.  See this thread:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...een-given-notice-of-a-court-proceeding.205302

At the risk of stating the obvious, the overall aim should be to keep you in your family home with the least amount of risk and stress.  You've been through enough already.

Best wishes.


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## joanj (6 Jan 2018)

Palerider,I have gone through the process already of sending in assessment of income and expenditure and details of assets and liabilities and made an offer that was rejected, 

TLO, The bank have not obtained the judgement yet, I pushed them for an answer before Christmas and was told this is the route they are taking and that a letter will be sent out to me. I have requested a face to face meeting but haven't received an answer on that yet.I am trying to get a loan from my credit union to up my offer but I doubt it will be accepted as there will still be a signifient shortfall.


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## Clonback (6 Jan 2018)

My friend is in much the same position as joanj.Home mortgage with Ulster but BOI now going for judgement re residual debt balance on  investment property loan.However my friends wife was not party to BOI loan.
As long as the home loan is serviced BOI can do NOTHING.Ulster allowed him go from Capital/interest to Interest only which ensures it wont be paid off until after the 12th year.


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## joanj (6 Jan 2018)

I'm with the same lenders and will be dealing with home loan in the same way but as balance on home loan is less than 60,000 the balance will be small enough in 12 yrs time but hopefully will deter from Boi pushing for a sale.

Thank you to everyone that has commented and given me advice on this thread.


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## lukas888 (7 Jan 2018)

Clonback said:


> My friend is in much the same position as joanj.Home mortgage with Ulster but BOI now going for judgement re residual debt balance on  investment property loan.However my friends wife was not party to BOI loan.
> As long as the home loan is serviced BOI can do NOTHING.Ulster allowed him go from Capital/interest to Interest only which ensures it wont be paid off until after the 12th year.


Even if the home loan was paid off in the morning a judgement mortgage on a family home where the wife is not party to the other debt it is worthless.[/QUOTE]


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## joanj (7 Jan 2018)

Unfortunately both myself and my husband are party to both the residual debt and the family home mortgage.


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## Palerider (7 Jan 2018)

Peoples opinion vary, Creemegg states that there is a judgment on the property but you have not said so, right now there is no judgment registered, just the threat of one.

You want peace of mind and an understanding of how the next 12 years might be for you, you are not likely to get everything you want without a plan to discharge your debt with the lender.

Make contact again and go to meet your lender, it is clear to me that you want to address this fully, that is admirable, it seems many in the same situation try evasive manoeuvres in the hope it goes away.

Ultimately the lender can't get what isn't there but you are on the hook for the residual debt, you want to address it, you need peace of mind so press on with your efforts.

Good luck to you.


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## joanj (7 Jan 2018)

Thanks Palerider,hopefully they will agree to meet me to discuss a solution that will give me closure with them accepting a payment plan or lump sum offered rather than the threat hanging over us for 12 yrs and them possibly getting no money at the end of it,wouldn't make sense for anyone.


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## lukas888 (7 Jan 2018)

joanj  I don't think you should approach BOI at this stage.Before they get their judgement they have to engage Solicitors to write to you then issue you both with high court summons.My feeling is they are trying to frighten you to obtain a higher settlement than you can afford.Fold your arms for the moment and wait to see if they advance their threat.You can always engage at a later stage.


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## joanj (8 Jan 2018)

But can you still negotiate once solicitors become involved or is it too late ?


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## Jim Stafford (8 Jan 2018)

In a public forum such as this I am unable to comment on specific settlement strategies with specific banks.  Based on the limited information you have provided I set out below  some factors that you should consider. (I have only provided some factors, as you have not provided much information. Given that the banks monitor this forum it is questionable whether you should provide further information on this forum.)


Generally banks take a much longer term perspective than vulture funds, who want cash now.
If BOI are your only creditor outside your primary mortgage, then there is no point doing a DSA or PIA, unless your primary mortgage was in arrears as at 1 January 2015, or ad been re-structured prior to that date. if your primary mortgage was in arrears as at 1 January 2015 you should seriously consider a PIA.
Did BOI charge you the correct rate of interest on the loan?
If you have surplus income over your Reasonable Living Expenses you face the risk of a an Instalment Order being made against you.
If house prices continue to increase then there will be more equity to attack.
Should one of you go bankrupt now?
Should you sell your house now before a JM is registered?
Who advised you to sell the investment property? Why didn't you keep it and subsidise any monthly shortfall from your other income? Was that advisor negligent?
A factor in your favour is that the judgment rate of interest is only 2%, which should encourage the bank to settle.
Judgment mortgages are difficult and costly to enforce, but you would have no protection against bankruptcy, which would see your house sold.

Jim Stafford


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## Clonback (8 Jan 2018)

If the primary mortgage is not paid off what can BOI do with a JM?


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## joanj (8 Jan 2018)

Can Boi force us to go bankrupt?
We have very little surplus income as we have shown them on incoming and outgoing statement of affairs.
I have offered a one off payment,it was refused.I could offer a small monthly payment instead but they have indicated the monthly payment they would require and this would be impossible for me.
House mortgage is on interest only for the last 5 years)arrangement expires next year)
Selling our house would never be on the cards unless forced.
I was advised to sell the property as it had been vacant for 3 years and couldn't get a tenant.I was paying interest only and bank were putting pressure on to sell also.
I looked for full and final settlement with bank when I got a sale but they would not agree but they agreed to release the deeds and deal with residual date after.


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## lukas888 (8 Jan 2018)

Under the previous CEO R Boucher the mantra was no deals, no write down,no debt forgiveness.BOI  business and commercial banking were slightly more pro active and have done many deals including large write downs.The residential mortgage crowd in Mayor Street have dug their heels in and are now in a complete mess.Hopefully the new boss will be more pragmatic, otherwise they will able to to paper every branch in the country with largely worthless judgement mortgages.


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## cremeegg (8 Jan 2018)

Palerider said:


> Peoples opinion vary, Creemegg states that there is a judgment on the property but you have not said so, right now there is no judgment registered, just the threat of one.



I understood that there was a judgement mortgage in place already. This was my misreading of the initial post. Apologies to the OP and to Palerider.

However, a judgement mortgage may be the least bad outcome for you. The bank have said that they are going to put a judgement mortgage on your home, it might be worse if they said they were going to make you bankrupt, or going to seek an instalment order.

I am still not convinced that the OP should go anywhere near the bank. And I especially think that no offer of a lump sum should be made.


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## Clonback (8 Jan 2018)

cremeegg said:


> I understood that there was a judgement mortgage in place already. This was my misreading of the initial post. Apologies to the OP and to Palerider.
> 
> However, a judgement mortgage may be the least bad outcome for you. The bank have said that they are going to put a judgement mortgage on your home, it might be worse if they said they were going to make you bankrupt, or going to seek an instalment order.
> 
> I am still not convinced that the OP should go anywhere near the bank. And I especially think that no offer of a lump sum should be made.



I would tend to agree with Cremeeggs strategy.Sometimes it's difficult to do nothing but it may be the best approach.However Jim Stafford is the expert on this subject.


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## joanj (4 Apr 2019)

I am bringing up thread I posted on over a year ago.Investment property sold that was in negative equity,substantial shortfall,I offered bank small settlement figure but it was refused,was told by bank they would be putting judgement on my home that has equity in it,that was well over a year ago and despite numerous requests from me to meet with someone to try and find a solution,possibly substantial write down and payment plan but they would not engage.There has been no contact at all in a year except statement arriving quarterly.I really would like to get some closure on this.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Apr 2019)

Hi Joan 

As Jim suggests, you should see a Personal Insolvency Practitioner to get specific advice. 

You might not be able to get closure on it.  While it would be nice to settle it for €10k , I doubt BoI would be interested when they know you have assets. 

I presume that they have not got a judgement yet? 

Either see a PIP or do nothing. 

Brendan


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## joanj (4 Apr 2019)

Thanks for that Brendan,I would have been prepared to do a payment plan in addition to the 10k but it would still have to involve a substantial write down.No judgement has been put on the house,it was only mentioned once to me over the phone but never followed up.I thought with personal insolvency you would have to have debts from more than one lender .I will certainly look into it.Thanks again.


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## Palerider (4 Apr 2019)

Sit tight, be patient, try and put some money away monthly into a separate account, they may or may not progress this, patience is a virtue and you will need patience, believe me pressing forward now is the wrong move.


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## joanj (5 Apr 2019)

Thanks a mill for the advice Palerider,I think that’s what I will have to do and just wait an see what happens.Ideally closure would be preferable but bank just won’t engage.


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