# Bag packers in Supermarkets collecting for charity



## my2leftfeet (14 Nov 2005)

Brendan's "toilet attendants" thread has prompted me post to see what people think of the phenomenon of people packing your bags in supermarkets with the charity bucket beside them. Practically every time I go to my local Tesco a GAA club/or band or swimming team are there - usually young kids - to pack your bags and you feel obliged to throw something into their collection bucket.  You generally pass a collector on your way in / out of the store also!  
I give to the charities I choose to give to and the local church - my choice - and I don't like to feel "obliged" to donate.
Not that I've "let off steam" I'm going to ring the local store manager and see what their comment is on the matter.


----------



## jem (14 Nov 2005)

This is one of the few ways that scouts fundraise. The idea is that at least you are geting something for your €. It took over from the old bob-a-job which stoped for obvious child safety reasons. Other groups have copied the scouts on thsi one. Remember you don't have to contribute if you don't want to.


----------



## MissRibena (14 Nov 2005)

I don't usually feel too obliged but I am sick of the "ambush" tactics used by charity collectors.  The whole "have you a minute for Concern/Whoever" thing gets on my nerves, particularly since it's money they want and not a "minute".  And the collectors get paid (minimally, I know) and are branded up to their eyeballs (bibs, brollies, clipboards, pens etc), so how much of the money actually goes to charity in the end anyway?

But worse of all recently on a bridge crossing the Shannon, there were people with high-vis jackets standing in the middle of the road on the bridge appearing to stop the traffic (or at least the traffic was stopping, thinking it was the Gardai).  It turns out they are collecting money for the local rowing club.  

Whatever about the "real charities" collecting by dubious methods, I am fed up with local people looking for my money to support their hobbies or those of their kids.  Nobody pays for mine.  I don't even understand how people think it's ok to do this.

Rebecca


----------



## jem (14 Nov 2005)

MissRibena said:
			
		

> I don't usually feel too obliged but I am sick of the "ambush" tactics used by charity collectors.  The whole "have you a minute for Concern/Whoever" thing gets on my nerves, particularly since it's money they want and not a "minute".  And the collectors get paid (minimally, I know) and are branded up to their eyeballs (bibs, brollies, clipboards, pens etc), so how much of the money actually goes to charity in the end anyway?
> 
> But worse of all recently on a bridge crossing the Shannon, there were people with high-vis jackets standing in the middle of the road on the bridge appearing to stop the traffic (or at least the traffic was stopping, thinking it was the Gardai).  It turns out they are collecting money for the local rowing club.
> 
> ...


I understand your felings and have often felt the same. I am a leader in scouts as I said earlier the bag pack is one of the major fundraising items during the year, we do it at christmas(1day)& easter (2days).



			
				MissRibena said:
			
		

> I am fed up with local people looking for my money to support their hobbies or those of their kids.  Nobody pays for mine.  I don't even understand how people think it's ok to do this.


That is fine for yourself andmyself as we can afford to do so, not everyone is in teh same situation, we try to keep the cost of scouting as low as possible so that kids from every strata of society can take part. Also I would point out that many people would like to make a small donation to orginisations that they are not directly involved in at that time, maybe they were when they were kids etc, maybe they like the orginisation ect. that is why people contribute and if people didn't there would be no collections. voluntary groups need to fundraise , if you don't want to contribute don't.


----------



## Carpenter (14 Nov 2005)

I agree with you, I'm well able to pack my own shopping and anyone who shops at Lidl  knows how to pack in a hurry!

But there is another way of looking at this.  My wife is a leader with the Irish Girl Guides and every year they do the obligatory bit of fund raising by church gate collection and bag packing at Tescos.  My wife hates the bag packing, but she has to do it along with the other volunteers.  Most bag packers I'm sure would rather do something else to raise funds but it is one of the easiest ways to do so, no permit is required (as in case of draw/ lottery style fundraisers) and insurance is not an issue.  Unfortunately for organisations like IGG this is one of the few ways in which they can raise funds for the various activites they do.  If the government gave adequate funding for the many voluntary organisations that are working with children in this country we would have no need for flag days, bag packing etc. The few grants that are available (from the VEC etc) are meagre and I know that many of the adults involved with such organisations regulary supplement the (indadequate) funds by supplying materials for arts and crafts activities etc purchased with their own personal funds. In conclusion I think if you want to abolish bad packing etc. lobby your local TD, not the supermarket manager- but be aware that the money will have to come from somewhere else- probably higher taxation.  Makes you think though about all the millions squandered on E voting, PPARS etc- how many voluntary organisations could have benefitted from such funding.


----------



## MissRibena (14 Nov 2005)

I was a tweenie, brownie and girl guide.  I remember we had cake sales and craft fairs a lot. I also remember a church gate collection.  We didn't do bob-a-job and we didn't do street collections.   

I don't buy the whole "how do underpriviledged people afford it" line.  I don't think that a lot of these hobby organisations have many underpriviledged kids involved (I'm talking about brownies, swimming clubs, karate etc). They didn't in my day but then none of those were completely free and involved wearing of expensive uniforms and required (albeit small) weekly contributions.  To be fair to the local GAA, they seem to be far better than most organisations at getting a proper cross-section of society involved (maybe because AFAIK they are completely free) and they are certainly not the worst culprits for collecting at supermarket tills or stopping traffic - mostly the organise draws; which are a lot easier opt in and out of.

I also notice that schools from up to 10 miles outside the town where I live come into the town to do the bag packing thing, which I find a bit odd.

Rebecca


----------



## MissRibena (14 Nov 2005)

And incidentally, there are no kids involved in the local rowing club.

Rebecca


----------



## Vanilla (14 Nov 2005)

Bag packing is a pet hate of mine. It annoys the hell out of me...I have to admit I am something of a control freak in certain areas, and this is one of them. I want to pack my own bags. I want to put all the yoghurts/ potentially leaky fragile items together. I do not want meat to be packed with other products. I do not want soft fruit in with hard items. I want all the tins together. Certain items have to be packed right side up. Bag packers do not usually live up to these standards. I used to take a stand and tell the bag packer that I wanted to pack my own bags, and fair enough most of them were ok about it. But I still came away feeling like a begrudger for wanting to pack my own bags. I have given in to a certain extent, and allow the packer to help, but give directions ( they must hate me!).Then theres also the money element- I like to feel I have a choice in who I give my money to. But in these situations, you feel obliged to give them money. And when it's for what I would feel are worthy causes, like the major charities, I don't mind as much, but for the local sport groups I really resent feeling obliged to 'donate'. Especially as the 'local' groups aren't even local to me. So I feel I have to 'donate' to a group not of my choosing, for a service that I don't want. I don't like it and have complained to the customer service department of two supermarkets that I frequent, as I feel the blame lies with them in allowing the bag packers on the premises.


----------



## RainyDay (14 Nov 2005)

Don't assume that the 'expensive uniforms' would be a blocking factor. Having been heavily involved in one voluntary uniformed youth in the past, we would have made strenuous efforts to ensure that the cost of the uniform would have been waived or subsided, where there was a genuine need. I'm not sure if the 'expensive uniforms' issue would apply to swimming classes anyway, unless we're kitting out 10 year olds with Michelle Smith-style lycra suits now!

The question of Govt support or funding is more interesting. I suspect that investment in such activities is repayed many times over in terms of reduced health costs, garda costs, prison costs. From my anecdotal evidence, it does seem that there is a reasonable amount of funding available from VEC's and local authorities at present. Just by way of example, the current youth leaders in the organisation in which I was involved now carry nicely embossed business cards. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, but it's an expense that we certaintly wouldn't have been able to countenance in the good oul days. 

To go back to the original question, the bag-packers don't bother me. If I don't like their cause (bloody Riverdance clones), then I won't give a donation.


----------



## MissRibena (14 Nov 2005)

The kind of uniforms I meant was (and this is harking back to my own time) brownie and guide uniforms, karate kit etc.  When I was in the local swimming club, even the best of togs (now about 30 euro a go) wore out and became see-through/baggy pretty quickly with the kind of regular use involved (3 times + per week) - not that cheap either with goggles etc. factored in.

Rebecca


----------



## RainyDay (14 Nov 2005)

MissRibena said:
			
		

> The kind of uniforms I meant was (and this is harking back to my own time) brownie and guide uniforms, karate kit etc.


Me too - These were the kind of uniforms that we ensured were subsidised as required.


----------



## MissRibena (14 Nov 2005)

Definitely not in the clubs I attended.  I particularly remember the cost of the brownie and guide uniforms in particular being really expensive and my mother wondering why we needed them at all (which in hindsight is a very fair question).  I also remember my mam getting fed up with the swimming togs.

The local GAA clubs provide the kit (at younger age level at least) completely FOC.

Rebecca


----------



## Carpenter (14 Nov 2005)

I think it's important not to forget that voluntary organisations make a huge contribution to  a society as a whole.  It's unfortunate that the more marginalised sections of society are not as well represented in the membership of clubs etc, but I'm not sure that this is entirely the fault of these clubs and organisations.  "Middle class" parents are probably more "pushy" when it comes to their kids and will want their offspring to be involved in the scouts or the under 12s soccer etc.  The cost of uniforms or participation in organised activities is not a barrier to membership in the vast majority of voluntary clubs etc.


----------



## MargeSimpson (14 Nov 2005)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> I want to put all the yoghurts/ potentially leaky fragile items together. I do not want meat to be packed with other products. I do not want soft fruit in with hard items. I want all the tins together. Certain items have to be packed right side up.


I have to agree with Vanilla. I also hate bag packers in the supermarket. When you get home you never know what you'll find thrown into a bag. Frozens/Dairy with detergents!

Maybe if they were given 20 minutes training before they started it might help in someway.


----------



## pricilla (14 Nov 2005)

I think it would be better if the bag packers only were at half the tills. Then if you wanted you get your bags packed, you could. 
I don't like things pushed upon me like that.


----------



## CGorman (14 Nov 2005)

*In defence of bagpacking*

Did I hear someone imply that activities such as swimming are elitist! (WARNING: I'm heavly imvolved with my [broken link removed]  and am very commited to it... so a rant may/will follow). 

Swimming is both a cheap and expensive sport. 

A) In some Dublin clubs fees are over €1,000 per term and many swimmers feel pressure to buy fastskins costing €100's and other expensive things. The fees are this high because volunteerism is dieing in Dublin clubs; they now have to pay coachs and this has lead to them becoming more competitive than ever pushing swimmers to buy expensive kit. Swimming is perhaps one of the most competitive sports in Ireland requireing unbelievable commitment. Have a look at [broken link removed]  training times - the seniors swim 9 times a week with total pool time of 15hr 45min. Thats one large swimming pool bill.

B)  In my own club fees range from less than €100 to €155 per term. We are one of the cheapest clubs in the country but this will change because at present our wage bill is €0 per annum, i.e. we rely completely on volounters; we receive a credit union grant and we actively fund raise, selling lines, bag packing and flag day once a year. I strongly believe entry fees to any club should be kept minimal to allow everyone a chance, however this is only possible if everyone pitchs in. 

When I bagpack I often meet people who choose to pack their bags themselves or who don't give us a cent. Fair enough thats their choice, but bag packing is one of our very few fundraising activities that works - 1) the GAA clubs run the lotteries because they are often larger and have more interest from communities than small clubs in other sports. 2) Dog Nights, Dinner Dances and other functions don't work because of our club age profile - few seniors, and plenty of ten year olds with parents seeing the club as nothing more than cheap childcare. 3) People can't stand flag days and street collections so we restrict that to once a year (or even less.. its been a long time since our last). 4) Again our age profile means  there are very few activities we have the man power to do.

Finally Swimming Clubs *cannot receive lottery funding*  because they don't have any physical premises. GAA clubs can get grants for building club houses and that sort of thing but we must pay our pool rent bill (which is enormous) out of our own funds.

As you can see our fundraiseing choices are limited - club fees, christmas raffle and bag packing.


----------



## MissRibena (15 Nov 2005)

Here in the sticks, (where there is only one swimming club, if you are very lucky), my local swimming club (for whatever reasons) are made up of a vast majority of the kids of the town's well-to-do's.  There are no travellers or kids from the local council estate.  They bag-pack and run flag days with the best of them.  That was the way it was when I was involved too (about 15-20 years ago).

I'm not saying that things are deliberately constructed to keep the "under-priviledged" kids out or anything sinister like that (I believe at lot of it is tradition/inherited).  But likewise, I don't believe that the parents who collect for the swimming club are doing it for anyone other than their own kids.  

I can only go by my own experience.  Maybe it's all more democratic in the larger urban areas (although I'd have my doubts) but it certainly isn't here.  I didn't and don't single out swimming either, it's the same with drama clubs, pony club, brownies, ballet etc. etc.  When you know exactly who is involved and you know all the kids and you know who is packing the bags, it kinda sticks in your craw a little more.  

And like I said, it's not just the kids clubs.  The adults-only clubs are not behind the door with the paw out either.

Rebecca


----------



## RainyDay (15 Nov 2005)

Hi Rebecca - Just one more piece of information to throw into the pot. In my case, the behind-the-scenes work that was to ensure that in cases of genuine need, kids weren't blocked from participation for financial reasons would have been invisible to other kids and parents. It wasn't widely advertised or highlighted. It wasn't always the obvious 'poor' who were helped out either. There may well have been stuff going on behind the scenes in your club which was not visible to all.


----------



## jem (15 Nov 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> Hi Rebecca - Just one more piece of information to throw into the pot. In my case, the behind-the-scenes work that was to ensure that in cases of genuine need, kids weren't blocked from participation for financial reasons would have been invisible to other kids and parents. It wasn't widely advertised or highlighted. It wasn't always the obvious 'poor' who were helped out either. There may well have been stuff going on behind the scenes in your club which was not visible to all.



Rainyday I Agree totally on all points.


----------



## podgerodge (18 Nov 2005)

pricilla said:
			
		

> I think it would be better if the bag packers only were at half the tills. Then if you wanted you get your bags packed, you could.
> I don't like things pushed upon me like that.



That's the best suggestion I've heard.  Let Tesco stick up some huge signs saying "Pack your own bag queue".  I'd queue twice as long to avoid this in your face fundraising.  You can't avoid it and it's not as easy as some people seem to think to let someone pack your bag and not give them money.  Once or twice I've said "I'll pack my own" but I always feel like a narky git doing so.

So, Tesco, leave half the queues packer free.


----------



## Sue Ellen (19 Nov 2005)

It goes down a treat with the kids when I tell them "here's a few bob and I'll pack my own bags, you have a rest". IMHO 50c, 1 or 2e is not going to break the bank.

Have helped out on fund raising bag packs in the past and most of the adults and kids hate it. Its hard work standing there for hours with usually only short breaks.


----------



## brodiebabe (19 Nov 2005)

Bag packers in Tesco today, the little girl packing for me was so helpful. Left the eggs out of the bag and pointed out my change (it was on the self-service till). Well worth the 60c I gave her....


----------



## ClubMan (19 Nov 2005)

brodiebabe said:
			
		

> it was on the self-service till


What's a self service till? Do you scan/ring-up your own groceries or something!?


----------



## RainyDay (19 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> What's a self service till? Do you scan/ring-up your own groceries or something!?


Yep - That's it.


----------



## CCOVICH (19 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> What's a self service till? Do you scan/ring-up your own groceries or something!?



So you haven't experienced the joys  of Tesco Clare Hall then ?


----------



## ClubMan (19 Nov 2005)

How do they detect shoplifters?


----------



## CCOVICH (19 Nov 2005)

Security Guards, security tagging, anything worth robbing is nailed to the shelves.  It's something else, get on the 27 and have a gander.


----------



## brodiebabe (19 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> How do they detect shoplifters?


Was in the D15 Tesco today.  They have a staff member giving any assistance needed - presume they look out for people puttin unscanned items into bags...... generally I think it is an honour system tho.

Think it is a waste of time tho- took me twice as long to scan the items and pay......


----------



## MargeSimpson (20 Nov 2005)

When you scan an item, the item details are displayed on the screen and you get a subtotal. You cannot scan another item until the previous item you scanned is put into a shopping bag and is detected by its weight. (Your shopping bag has to rest on a scales). Therefore the total weight of your bag of groceries has to match what was scanned. (I presume that the weight of the item is in the bar code).


----------



## ClubMan (20 Nov 2005)

MargeSimpson said:
			
		

> When you scan an item, the item details are displayed on the screen and you get a subtotal. You cannot scan another item until the previous item you scanned is put into a shopping bag and is detected by its weight. (Your shopping bag has to rest on a scales). Therefore the total weight of your bag of groceries has to match what was scanned. (I presume that the weight of the item is in the bar code).


Is this a joke? If not then why did others not mention this approach?


----------



## royrogers (20 Nov 2005)

Nearly all big supermarkets in the Uk have these tills, remember there is a security cameras on you at all times.


----------



## brodiebabe (20 Nov 2005)

MargeSimpson said:
			
		

> When you scan an item, the item details are displayed on the screen and you get a subtotal. You cannot scan another item until the previous item you scanned is put into a shopping bag and is detected by its weight. (Your shopping bag has to rest on a scales). Therefore the total weight of your bag of groceries has to match what was scanned. (I presume that the weight of the item is in the bar code).


 
This is gone from D15 Tesco, instead you have to let the item slide down the conveyoer b4 the next item gets scanned.


----------



## brodiebabe (20 Nov 2005)

royrogers said:
			
		

> Nearly all big supermarkets in the Uk have these tills, remember there is a security cameras on you at all times.


 
I first used these tills in Ohio, USA 2 and half years ago.


----------



## Murt10 (20 Nov 2005)

brodiebabe said:
			
		

> This is gone from D15 Tesco, instead you have to let the item slide down the conveyoer b4 the next item gets scanned.





No, there are a couple of tills (5?) that are self service in that Tesco. The one with the conveyor belt is for people with trollies. The other ones are for basket shoppers and as Marge said they weigh everything to make sure that everything is scanned before it is put into your bag. ie the machine knows what a tin of pedigree pal dog food weighs and that exact weight must be added to your bag before the machine will allow you to continue.. 

The till also calls out how much each item costs, presumably to help people whose eyesight is not the best.

When you are finished, you can either elect to pay by card or cash, both of which you imsert into a slot. The cash option is ideal for getting rid of a wallet full of small change. 

The advantage for Tesco is that they can have one member of staff operating 5 tills.

A disadvantage of the self service is that you can't get cashback on your laser transaction. I also find them slower, especially if you get someone a bit doddery in front of you.


Murt


----------



## Gabriel (20 Nov 2005)

I'm one of those begrudgers who hates this lark too I'm afraid.
The whole 'you don't have to give them money' idea doesn't wash with me either. The point is you feel obliged to and if you don't you feel like a complete stinge.

The same applies to charities who sit at tables at the entrance/exit to shops and supermarkets. I make it my business to ignore them. Fundraisers on Grafton street too who literally acost you while you're trying to go about your business. It all needs to be stopped in my opinion. 

As for scouts/ cubs whatever....they can fundraise in other ways. Cake sales etc etc...the bag packing thing works for them because people don't like to feel mean so they give. To be honest, I couldn't give a rashers whether my local scout den has whatever they need to do x, y or z this year but confronted with some little blighter shoving my pizzas into a bag for me and a queue full of aul dears behind me I'll probably shove a few pennies into the cookie jar for him /her before I leave. 
I imagine most people feel the same way. I wonder how much money they'd receive if there was just a box sitting at the end of the til instead and no child there? This would probably be a better gauge of how much people actually *want* to help their cause.

On principle I try not to give any money to anyone who shoves their cause under my nose.


----------



## MissRibena (21 Nov 2005)

Ah lads, ye are miles behind in the smoke.  We've had the self-service tills down here for the last year and a half.  There's a couple of the ones for  baskets with the weighing scales and one with a converyor belt for the trolley-sized shop.

They are as slow as Christmas though.  If it's something without a bar code (like loose fruit and veg) you have to go through menus etc. and it takes an age.  If you buy alcohol, you have to wait for some young one to come and see if you are old enough and press a few buttons. 

I never thought of the idea of getting rid of a lot of change but it's a great tip! Thanks

Rebecca


----------



## RainyDay (21 Nov 2005)

Gabriel said:
			
		

> As for scouts/ cubs whatever....they can fundraise in other ways. Cake sales etc etc...the bag packing thing works for them because people don't like to feel mean so they give. To be honest, I couldn't give a rashers whether my local scout den has whatever they need to do x, y or z this year


You make fundraising sound so easy! Have you ever tried it? It's a real nightmare. The volunteers (who I'd prefer would be spending their time on volunteering, e.g. scouting, sports coaching, etc etc) are giving up even more of their time to hold out the begging bowl. They don't choose bag-packing to make you feel bad. They choose it because it works. 

And you might give a rashers about your scout den when you consider the alternative - having those kids roaming the streets unsupervised with time on their hands.


----------



## stuart (21 Nov 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> are giving up even more of their time to hold out the begging bowl.


 
If they want to hold out the begging bowl then be expected to be treated as begging

Are you sure it is not the bagging bowl?


----------



## my2leftfeet (21 Nov 2005)

I agree that bag packers at half the tills would be a good idea - at least then you feel you have a choice - and if it's a cause you would choose to give to - you join the queue.
I did ring the local Tesco a week ago for their comment. After holding for 10 mins I agreed to leave my number for someone to call me back to discuss - needless to say - I'm still waiting.


----------



## ubiquitous (21 Nov 2005)

I honestly don't see any problem with this - all the kids are looking for is a little loose change - they won't refuse even 10 or 15 cent. Its a lot less 'in your face' than church gate collections or street chugging.


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

In my experience if you want to pack your own bags and/or not donate any change then you can do so. If anybody reacts badly to this then that's their problem. If people feel embarrassed by doing this themselves then they shouldn't.


----------



## Vanilla (21 Nov 2005)

The problem is that the shopper feels obliged to give money, rather than it being a choice. It annoys the hell out of me. There are certain charities that collect on the street or outside shopping centres that I would cross the street to donate to- probably because they have had an impact on my family or they mean something to me- like daffodil days, ms, down syndrome ireland etc. I donate on line to medecin sans frontieres and support certain local charities and fund raising. But I want to feel its my choice to donate, not an obligation. And I do not want any one packing my bags for me. It's as simple as that.

And Superquinn in Limerick has had the self service thing for the last few years too- you get a hand held scanner and scan as you go around the shop, then go to a self service till, slot in the hand held scanner and pay. I believe they operate spot checks now and then. I havent been there for a while now, but think its a very good idea.


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> The problem is that the shopper feels obliged to give money, rather than it being a choice.


Regardless of how they may feel they obviously still do have a choice. What others think should not be a factor in this.


----------



## Vanilla (21 Nov 2005)

> What others think should not be a factor in this.


 
Why not? And in any case, it's not just what others think ( although this is an important and relevant consideration to my mind, especially in a rural community where the person behind you in the queue, or in the next queue, probably knows you), it's what you feel yourself. I have already said that in the past I tried stating that I preferred packing my bags myself, and felt like a curmudgeon. Plus I feel obliged to give money despite the fact that the group in question might not be a charity or club that I might otherwise want to donate to. My feelings are relevant to me!


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

I just think that too often people worry about what others think about their actions when they should not. That's just my opinion. While you might feel obliged to unwillingly allow others to pack your bags or donate money obviously this is not the case and you still have the ultimate say in matters. That's a fact.


----------



## Vanilla (21 Nov 2005)

That's the way of the world. If I care what my clients, friends, neighbours, potential clients ( the whole world!) think of me, then that is what is relevant to me, and that's also a fact.


----------



## Gabriel (21 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I just think that too often people worry about what others think about their actions when they should not. That's just my opinion. While you might feel obliged to unwillingly allow others to pack your bags or donate money obviously this is not the case and you still have the ultimate say in matters. That's a fact.



I think you're missing the point of the rant Clubman. The point is, while you ultimately have a choice, it's *annoying* that it's in your face. We're not robots y'know. People will always feel certain ways. Vanilla's _feelings_ in this respect are quite normal. I'd feel the same way. You feel obliged to help out a cause that you might not particularly want to help.
I feel guilty when I ignore the charity fundraisers sitting at the table outside my local tesco...but I do so for the right reasons. I also feel guilty saying no to lots and lots of beggars who approach me on the street. I feel guilty and I'd rather they didn't approach me like that...but I know I'm doing the right thing.

just because you, ultimately, have a choice in the matter, doesn't mean you don't have a right to feel they just shouldn't be there.

I also feel that the boy scouts versus kids running rampant on the streets is a bit of a red herring. I was a cub and a scout (for about three weeks) btw. This sort of fundraising might *work* for these organisations but I'd stand by my assertion that it works for all the wrong reasons and we should be trying to stamp these things out.


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

I don't feel obliged to do anything that I don't want to do because of peer pressure. If I am ever so inclined I tend to challenge my initial reaction/assumption. I don't think that my feelings in this respect are in any way abnormal as you seem to imply.


----------



## stuart (21 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I don't feel obliged to do anything that I don't want to do because of peer pressure


 
When I grow up I want to be you


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

Actually you should try thinking for yourself rather than aspiring to be somebody else.


----------



## jem (21 Nov 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> I honestly don't see any problem with this - all the kids are looking for is a little loose change - they won't refuse even 10 or 15 cent. Its a lot less 'in your face' than church gate collections or street chugging.


And you are geting a service for your few cent, generally your trolly in returned for you as well, all our scouts recieve training on how to pack a bag so it should be done right.


----------



## stuart (21 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Actually you should try thinking for yourself rather than aspiring to be somebody else.


 
Us that live in the gutter must aspire to something, who better then yourself


----------



## ClubMan (21 Nov 2005)

If you're looking up to me then you're definitely in the gutter.


----------



## franmac (22 Nov 2005)

I hate these bag packers handling my shopping but I understand why it is done because my sister in law is involved in a youth club in the Tallaght area and the effort that she and other people put into the ways of raising money to occupy the leisure time of these young people is to be admired.
According to her the youngsters do not want to do anything but they still expect to be subsidisied on trips and outings that they go on and most parents treat the club as a babysitting service and have no interest in helping to raise money.


----------



## Gabriel (22 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> If I am ever so inclined I tend to challenge my initial reaction/assumption. I don't think that my feelings in this respect are in any way abnormal as you seem to imply.



I never implied anything of the sort. 
You're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Just because you feel this way doesn't mean everyone else does.

So...


			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> If people feel embarrassed by doing this themselves then they shouldn't.



...makes sense for you but others don't feel like that, so you shouldn't assume that they should. After all, that's the whole point of the rant...how these bagpackers make people feel!


----------



## ClubMan (22 Nov 2005)

Gabriel said:
			
		

> I never implied anything of the sort.
> You're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Just because you feel this way doesn't mean everyone else does.


Yes - and vice versa.



> ...makes sense for you but others don't feel like that, so you shouldn't assume that they should. After all, that's the whole point of the rant...how these bagpackers make people feel!


I never said that they should. I just pointed out that they could.


----------



## Gabriel (22 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> I never said that they should. I just pointed out that they could.



I'm sorry but you did.



			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> If people feel embarrassed by doing this themselves then they *shouldn't.*



Bold text is mine.


----------



## ClubMan (22 Nov 2005)

Fair cop guv!


----------



## Gabriel (22 Nov 2005)

Lol 

Anyway...the long and the short of it is next time I see a scout or girl guide trying to pack my bags I'm going to scream and shout at them until they cry and stop what they're doing


----------



## ClubMan (22 Nov 2005)

Good move. Otherwise you might feel embarrased by what others think of you when you quietly and politely decline their services and to make a donation.


----------

