# Next of Kin - Organ Donation



## RedStix (4 Jun 2007)

Lately i have been looking into becoming an organ doner in the event that i die. Its something i've thought long and hard about for a while and it is something i wish to go ahead with. After looking up the website that deals with organ donation, it asks and answers the following question: 

*How can I become a donor after my death?*
Simply sign a Donor Card and request your next of kin to sign it also indicating their willingness to honour your wishes.

My problem is this. I have been with my current partner for a number of years now and although he is aware of my wishes and would carry them out, he is not my next of kin as we are not married and we never intend to marry. This would make my parents my next of kin, and regardless of what i say, they would never agree to my organ donation, for many reasons, the main one being a religous reason. (They are of different religious persuasion to me and they do not believe in blood/organ donation). 

Is there any way around this. I would hate in the instance of something happening to me for my organs to go to waste. I would rather my partner make the decision as he knows how i feel about this, but have been told it would be my parents decision. How can i ensure my wishes are carried out?


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## Crugers (4 Jun 2007)

GED said:


> ...Simply sign a Donor Card and request your next of kin to sign it also indicating their willingness to honour your wishes...
> ...How can i ensure my wishes are carried out?...





Driving licence has a section on the back for opting in to Kidney and or Multi Organ donor. It has space for licensee signature only. If it doesn't 'work' then it seems pointless and misleading to have it there at all...
It seems odd to me that you are required to have your next of kin to approve of your noble decision.


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## Nige (5 Jun 2007)

Crugers said:


> It seems odd to me that you are required to have your next of kin to approve of your noble decision.


 
Odd as it is, it is the practice in Ireland.

GED, if you don't marry your partner you are correct in saying your parents remain your next of kin. This is a problem not only in relation to organ donation but also consent for medical procedures if you are not in a position to make a decision. 

However (and maybe some solicitors on here can confirm) I think that it may be possible to give power of attorney to your partner in such circumstances.


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## nelly (5 Jun 2007)

religion aside  I know someone who got married to their partner in a registry office for reasons not unlike this one, no ceremony or readings or anything just signing the certificate to say they were legally married, end of. Maybe its something you might consider.


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## Lauren (5 Jun 2007)

Nelly, OP already stated they had no intentions of marrying....pretty clear..


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## TDON (5 Jun 2007)

Hi GED, 

This is just an idea but I have often thought of drawing up a Living Will as I would hate someone else to make decisions for me if I were in a coma. Have been putting it on the long finger, but this is a site with an Irish flag and the price quoted in Euro. It just might give you an indication of what you can do in relation to the above. 

http://www.makeyourwill.com/googlewills.htm?aieedGn006G_EI_LW_1195

Although I'm not sure if the legislation is in place here yet,to enable you to do so.

The following pdf file; 

turns up a good few references to Living Wills.


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## davfran (5 Jun 2007)

Nelly is giving GED another option to ensure that her wishes are carried out, it might be the only option available to her.


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## MugsGame (5 Jun 2007)

> Nelly is giving GED another option to ensure that her wishes are carried out, it might be the only option available to her.



If GED is a 'her', that is.


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## RedStix (5 Jun 2007)

Hi guys 

Thanks for your comments so far. TDON, i had thought of a will (as i need to do one up anyway) but it was mentioned to me that in most circumstances a persons will is usually dealt with after their funeral, therefore making it too late for organ donation. The link you provided for the living wills was great and at least i know its an option. Without sounding too thick what is the difference between a will and a living will? I presume that one is taken into consideration while one is alive and the other once one has died?? But is this common practice? If i were in hospital, would hospital staff usually ask if i had a living will or would i instruct my partner to make them aware of the fact?



> religion aside I know someone who got married to their partner in a registry office for reasons not unlike this one, no ceremony or readings or anything just signing the certificate to say they were legally married, end of. Maybe its something you might consider.


Hi Nelly. Thanks for the suggestion, but its not a route we want to take, small ceremony or not, but thanks anyway.



> If GED is a 'her', that is.


Last time i checked i was anyway


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## nelly (5 Jun 2007)

Lauren no need 4 it, luv. 

the reason i mentioned it is that signing a bit of paper which is reversable by legal seperation / divorce if you change your mind is the means to the end. Its also a different way of looking at the whole "marraige" thing where most of us got into it for other reasons and till death do us part. . It would be the only solution (assuming that they op is not  in a same sex partnership).

posted same time as op.


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## davfran (5 Jun 2007)

My brother RIP, made a living will when he was diagnoised with a terminal illness, its legal all above board, I would suggest you go that route with your solr.


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## RedStix (5 Jun 2007)

> It would be the only solution (assuming that they op is not in a same sex partnership).


Its not a same sex partnership, just one of us has been down the marriage route before and we both agree its just not for us personally.



> My brother RIP, made a living will when he was diagnoised with a terminal illness, its legal all above board, I would suggest you go that route with your solr


Thanks for letting me know Davfran. Its something i am definately looking into but i still need to know if my parents can contest it. It would be different if my parents agreed with my choice but they don't at all.



> I think that it may be possible to give power of attorney to your partner in such circumstances.


Is this possible?


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## rob30 (5 Jun 2007)

Organs are generally harvested from people who are brain dead. They are still "alive" in that the heart is beating. 
In general, the family and significant others are gathered as a group and a consensus needed, as harvesting organs is the equivelent of turning off a machine.
I cannot see organs being harvested when there is a vehement objection from a family member, legal or otherwise.
A signature on the card is usually not enough.


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## RedStix (5 Jun 2007)

> I cannot see organs being harvested when there is a vehement objection from a family member, legal or otherwise.
> A signature on the card is usually not enough.


 
Is there nothing i can do then to make sure my wishes are carried out?


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## bond-007 (5 Jun 2007)

State your wishes in a will.

I have made it known that in the event of my death that my will must be read asap. I have explicitly said what my wishes are about disposal of my remains and organ donation.


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## Nige (5 Jun 2007)

bond-007 said:


> State your wishes in a will.
> 
> I have made it known that in the event of my death that my will must be read asap. I have explicitly said what my wishes are about disposal of my remains and organ donation.


 
A will (in the conventional sense) in no good in relation to organ donation as there is a very small window of opportunity during which the organs can be harvested. 

The best you can do is ensure that your next of kin knows your wishes.


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## bond-007 (5 Jun 2007)

Which they are free to ignore. 

What about a living will?


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## Nige (5 Jun 2007)

The power of attorney option seems to have limited benefit

[broken link removed]


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## Nige (5 Jun 2007)

As far as I can make out, living wills have no legal basis in Ireland.


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## davfran (5 Jun 2007)

GED my advice would be go see a solr. also contact organ donor org. I know they probably have no legal standing but see if they had similar circumstances. They may be able to guide you in the right direction, best of luck and fair dues to you, such a shame that others can dictate what you do with your own organs for religious purposes or otherwise.


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## Vanilla (5 Jun 2007)

A living will is otherwise known as an enduring power of attorney. They do have a legal basis having been enacted in the 1996 Power of Attorney act. An enduring power of attorney can give authority to an attorney appointed by you to make personal care decisions for you if you are incapable of doing so yourself however it cannot confer the right to make healthcare decisions and has been criticised because of that.


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## TDON (5 Jun 2007)

Hi Ged again,

Wow, this has really opened up a can of worms. I guess you would be better off going to see a solicitor and see if you can do a Living Will here in Ireland. However if it's true that your next of kin is free to ignore it, it really is a conundrum.

With me it's the reverse, my mother (who is terminally ill) sees my point of view, but I know my partner wouldn't be able to give the go ahead and turn off life support. I think would be an awful circumstance to be in and you should probably also sit down with all your nearest and dearest and tell them you want no arguments but these are your wishes in the event of anything happening to you. Then the person whom you know will most honour your wishes, give them the name and no of your solicitor and tell them that if anything does happen to you, this is the number to phone and let your solicitor deal with it from there.


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## RedStix (7 Jun 2007)

> Wow, this has really opened up a can of worms


 
Tell me about it! I really got thinking again after i read the following post



> This is a problem not only in relation to organ donation *but also consent for medical procedures* if you are not in a position to make a decision.


 
I hadn't thought of this before. Basically what keeps racing through my mind is if i am in some kind of accident, where my life depended on a blood transfusion, according to their religious belief, they would refuse a blood transfusion on my behalf. Its something they feel very strongly about. I spoke to my partner about this and we really do need to speak to a solicitor to see if there is anyway medical decisions can be made by my partner and not my parents as he would carry out my wishes in a heartbeat.


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## nelly (7 Jun 2007)

please let us know how you get on as it is an issue that i never even thought about before when i signed my donor card. 
I wonder if you spoke to someone like a chaplin to a hospital would they have come across this situation before.


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## bond-007 (7 Jun 2007)

GED said:


> Tell me about it! I really got thinking again after i read the following post
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't thought of this before. Basically what keeps racing through my mind is if i am in some kind of accident, where my life depended on a blood transfusion, according to their religious belief, they would refuse a blood transfusion on my behalf. Its something they feel very strongly about. I spoke to my partner about this and we really do need to speak to a solicitor to see if there is anyway medical decisions can be made by my partner and not my parents as he would carry out my wishes in a heartbeat.



I looked into this in great depth a couple of years ago. If you are not married the partner has absolutley no say in what happens to you medical wise or funeral wise. The Parents have all the say. I asked a solicitor about it. It was one of the reasons we got married. My religious beliefs are poles apart from my parents and I would not want them do decide important decisions about my life.


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## RedStix (7 Jun 2007)

> My religious beliefs are poles apart from my parents and I would not want them do decide important decisions about my life.


 
Ditto. When looking into this, was marraige the only way you found would give your partner the right to make your medical decisions? As we won't be getting married, i was wondering did you find any other alternatives when looking into it?


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## davfran (11 Jun 2007)

GED I really wish you the best, hope everything works out for you, get the legal advice.


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## Danmo (11 Jun 2007)

Nige said:


> As far as I can make out, living wills have no legal basis in Ireland.


 
I think this is correct. It is merely a statement of your wishes but not legally enforceable


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## Janet (13 Jun 2012)

Tacking on to this thread as it seems most related.  My question is whether there is a legal definition of who is next-of-kin?  I'm single, have no children and my parents are dead.  So at the moment I assume it's one of my siblings.  Are all siblings treated the same for the purposes of next-of-kin (I'm specifically interested in living will situations)?  Or would my oldest sister be considered next-of-kin?  My brother, the youngest of us, is the one who I would trust most to follow my wishes and who is most aware of what those wishes are.  Looking at a theoretical worst case scenario of a difficult situation bringing out the worst in my sometimes somewhat nutty family, would my oldest sister (actually a half-sister, not sure if that makes any difference) or any other sibling, be able to overrule my brother?

Obviously, in an ideal world, I'd meet Mr. Right, we'd fall madly in love and get married and he would become my next-of-kin but nearly forty years later and still waiting, it makes sense to not assume that's going to happen.


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## stephnyc (13 Jun 2012)

Hi Janet, I cant help, but am very interested in the answer!

Can an adult in Ireland choose their next of kin? Whether by power of attorney or similar? Can this person then make decisions regarding medical intervention, organ donation or burial etc? What would this person need to do to ensure the power of attorney was enacted (or how could they prove to a hospital etc that they had the decision-making rights)?

If any one has any experience in this, I would love to hear.. thanks!


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