# Career Advice



## Noelle (14 Jul 2006)

Hi,

I’m a graduate with a BA in law and history and an LLB. I graduated in 2004 and since then I’ve travelled a bit and worked in a few law firms as a legal assistant/secretary. I’ve passed 4 of the FE1 exams and was planning on sitting the rest in October. 

However, although I seem to be on the path to solicitor training I’m not sure that’s what I want to do. I was never sure about law but I don’t think I can face going back to college and doing another under grad degree. So basically I’m wondering if others have found themselves in this position and what options they have pursued. 

I’m starting to feel very fed up so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, 

Noelle


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## emmt (14 Jul 2006)

I found myself in teacher training and then spent 9 unhappy years teaching until I decided to stop giving out and do something about it.
A lot depends on your age I think. If you ARE going to do something else, think really carefully about what to do. Research it well and talk to people in the same field and see what the pros and cons are. I have changed careers twice since and am finally happy now with what I'm doing. But I wasted time in between and the first "career" and the third one that I wouldnt have if I had thought things out better. Its hard starting again, dont dount it, but for me it has been well worth the effort. I now work longer hours, have WAY less holidays and have never been happier. Its really a case of how much you dont like where your career is headed cos remember, you could be doing it for a long time so think whats best for you in the long run. Going back to study isnt so bad cos you are doing it cos you really want to.
Best of luck


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## kierank (14 Jul 2006)

Hi Noelle,

Considering that you have your undergrad degree completed you should look up postgrads in a variety of colleges as you may find something that interests you.. Even if your qualifications don't seem right for a particular postgrad, contact the co-ordinators/directors of the courses and chat to them as they may be able to provide you with information on how to get in to a desired course etc.. There may be work experience or part-time courses that they could advise u to do as a 'bridge' to get into the course u want to do.. Unless you were certain about training in a particular profession such as 'Nursing' I wouldn't advise doing another undergrad.. One is enough for anyone but if thats what it takes!! If u do consider doin another undergrad u may be eligible to go into the 2nd of 3rd yr of one depending on what it is.. However, the cost of another undergrad would be alot as u wouldn't be eligible for grants etc. You will be if your over 23 & doin a postgrad.. 

Sorry if Ive gone off the point abit but i hope it's a help and I hope u find a career that u love!


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## NorfBank (14 Jul 2006)

Hi Noelle,

I was in a very similar position to you a few years back. I had "read" law in UCD but had no real interest in justice or legal issues. Before I put Law on my CAO form, I knew that it was only 10 hours a week and a guaranteed stable job after graduation (perfect for 3 years of debauchery). I'm sure some of my fellow students did law to put the world to rights but most of my fellow students could not give a monkeys (you may be in the same boat). Cue replies from solicitors who did a BCL for the love of the law.

After graduation I started my apprenticeship and realised that no matter what the money was, this just wasn't for me so the fear set in (as it may be setting in for you now).
Do I throw away all those years of study (not just the 3 years in Law but also the previous years spent getting the points to allow me to study law) or just  crack on and  end up as a solicitor on a decent wage (sure everyone hates their job in the end don't they?)

My decision was to do a postgrad. I did one in business as it so happens and have not looked back since. Law on your CV will open most doors to an interview, Law and Business will open all doors, trust me. 

The postgrad gives you a year to really try and get a grip on where you would like to go and as you're studying with like minded confused/scared individuals there are loads of people to bounce ideas off.

Hope this is of some assistance, don't worry though, it all has a way of coming together in the end.


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## Noelle (17 Jul 2006)

Hi, 

Thanks for the responses and advice. It was great to hear about other people’s experiences and how you all ended up in careers that make you happy. I think it is just fear and the feeling that it’s too late to start again, I’m starting to regret that I didn’t do medicine or engineering even though I know at heart I wouldn’t have been happy. I’m still only 23 but it’s just when I see friends settled into careers and having done masters or completed apprenticeships, I feel like I’m still drifting…. I know I haven’t the desire to go back to do an under grad but at the same time I have no idea what post grad to do.  There are so many and at this stage I want to do something that will lead somewhere.  I think I might like journalism or maybe psychology as opposed to doing a masters in law. I do see where people are coming from when they say ah sure it’s just a job at the end of the day but considering it is a big part of life I would love to find something that makes me happy and gives me a sense of fulfillment.   Sometimes it can be easy to see what someone else should do but I think it’s just hard to see what your options are when it’s yourself!      

Thanks again I really appreciate the help!


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## buzybee (17 Jul 2006)

A good way to decide about careers is to think out:  

what subjects did you like in school/college
Do you like dealing with people or working alone
Do you like coming up with ideas
Do you like figures
Do you like writing/journalism

Also you should think about what effort you are prepared to put in to get your ideal job.  You may not want to do years of study.

You should think also about whether you want to work a straight day or would you not mind working evenings/weekends.

Talk to some friends about their work and this should help you as well

There are some books out there, which do personality/career suitability testing.  You answer a lot of questions, and they provide analysis on the types of career you are suited to.

If you have some office experience, you could do temping for a large organisation.  Then you can see all the different roles, and what is involved in the jobs.

Good luck,

B.


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## Noelle (18 Jul 2006)

Thanks B,

I have taken some of those tests with career advisers, once during college and again last year. To be honest I didn't find them helpful as the results were pretty general and didn't really give any concrete answers but I suppose I was expecting too much.  I don't want to spend years more in college and I think my problem is that I see my options as either doing a solicitor apprenticship or else doing a masters in law, which I'm not sure is the answer as it would probably just prolong a decision.  I don't know maybe I just can't see past that and that's my biggest problem.

Thanks, I really appreciate any advice!

Noelle


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## Purple (18 Jul 2006)

Why do you law as the only option for a masters?
You can do a mashers in loads of things with a law degree.


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## bb12 (18 Jul 2006)

it's never too late! i wish i was 23 again!  am now in my mid-30s and doing a part-time degree in an area which is totally unrelated to my current career path but one which i hope to pursue in the coming years. i wouldn't panic if i were you. you've lots of time to decide which way you want to go!


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## Noelle (18 Jul 2006)

I know there are other masters but to certain extent aren't they all going to be law related? I mean I can hardly do a psychology masters for example.  I'm sorry I know I'm probably just not seeing the bigger picture. 

BB12,
it's good that you're doing something you enjoy and exactly when you consider how long we have to work it can never be too late for a change!


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## gnashers (18 Jul 2006)

Perhaps you should download the post graduate prospectus' of the major colleges so you can get an idea of what the entry requirements are - a lot of them only require a degree, not necessairly one related to the field. You could look at Business, Multimedia, do a Hdip for secondary school teaching, Primary school teaching...

Alternatively you could decide what area you would like to work in and investigate the career options in that area and how to get qualifications.

Gnash


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## Ralphie (20 Jul 2006)

If I were you, I'd mess around for a few years until you figure it out.  I went into my apprenticeship at 22 but I think that had I been a few years older it really would have been of benefit. Not that I don't love my job but it would have been nice to have the choice of relaxing for a few years. Everytime I go on bebo I see more friends bumming it around the world which I missed out on because I was afraid to wait and wanted to get into the working world as soon as possible. You'll be working long enough!!
Also, every second person is doing apprenticeships and everyone in my class is worried about our job prospects at the other end. It's not a terribly exciting and glamorous job. A law degree never goes to waste and the two options of a Masters or an apprenticeship are not the only ones. Look on any recruitment website and you'll get a good idea of what's out there. 

I was actually going to do a Masters if I didn't get my apprenticeship by a deadline I had set myself. Masters are only of value if you are going into academia. Small firms don't really care about them. The larger firms would be looking for a Commercial Law Masters or something relevant to their area of practice but this would not be essential to working in those places. They cost a lot of money and you have to be careful which university you choose.


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## Noelle (21 Jul 2006)

Hi,

Thanks,

Honestly, thats what I was thinking myself about a masters, there are so many and it's difficult to know which would be best. They are expensive and a lot of factors such as the university etc are important considerations as you said. The apprenticship option doesn't really make me happy when I think about it, even though that seems to be what I've been working towards. But on the other hand its a qualification. I think I'm just afraid that if I don't make a decision or if I put it off to go travelling or something I'll just come back to the same problem only worse because I'll be older and more worried about not doing anything concrete.


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## micamaca (21 Jul 2006)

all depends on your perspective... for instance in Germany they don't leave secondary school till they're in the early 20's I believe, and only head for college then... so that's 4 / 5 years older than us... and they generally take longer than 3/4 years to do a degree, so are much older coming out into the workplace with their qualifications...might explain why 85% of them are renting so... 

but the point is, we sometimes live in boxes of expectations..what we expect from ourselves, what others expect...push the box out...take your time making the decision and try to be imaginative with ideas of what to do. I think getting the prospectus for courses around the country is a good idea and why not some for the UK if you don't like what you see here.  If you're only doing this because time is passing you by, then I'm not sure that's motivation enough or reason enough at the grand old age of 23!   I left my permanent and pensionable job to go to college full-time for first time and haven't regretted it once.


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## Noelle (21 Jul 2006)

I know I have a German friend who is 27 and has just done a masters in Dublin this year.  After you leave school I think you do either military service or some form of community work for a year or two which I think is compulsory.  

But I kwow exactly what you're saying about expectations and it's only me that's putting this pressure on myself and all things considered i'm very fortunate and feel guily about complaining so much and feeling sorry for myself!


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## micamaca (21 Jul 2006)

I understand being fed up, I was very fed up! and frustrated as like you I had no direction for years and other people got frustrated with me too...and I often got the line from my dad that people don't enjoy work but I just didn't buy it.... I know a lot of people might not enjoy work but a lot of people do and I want to be one of the people who does.   After all, it looks like we're all going to be working longer and longer seeing how retirement ages are being pushed up pretty much europe wide.

so the wouldn't it be nice to enjoy at least some of it? and i don't mean the coffee breaks or the five mins before going home time on Friday evening 

You're not the only one who feels frustrated and unsure, its natural. take your time, try something, if it doesn't work , try something else. keep trying till you get it right. you've all the time in the world... don't worry if you get it wrong  the first few times, just keep trying!


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## Noelle (21 Jul 2006)

Thanks Mica,

The line about not enjoying work sounds exactly like my dad! I know he wants me to be happy and tries to tell me that work is simply a means to an end like paying the mortgage and life is what you make it outside of that.  But I agree even if thats true for a lot of people it is possible to work at something you enjoy and can feel motivated in, which is what I'm looking for. It doesn't help that I am a very indecisive person and a worrier but it's good to know that I'm not alone and others ahve eventually got on the right trach. Thanks!


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## ozi (21 Jul 2006)

Hi Noelle,
God your dilemma sounds exactly like mine, after finishing a business degree  and masters and then working for a year, I traveled for 15 months I am back in Dublin a few months deciding what the hell to do with myself now! I am considering going down the FE and solicitor road although a 
HDip and teaching seems like a more enjoyable lifestyle to me. I am 25 so dont worry about time,the way it is now i'll be 28 or 29 before I even become qualified in anything and I have plenty of friends in the same position but if you have the opportunity to travel then do that before you settle down to work, believe me you wont regret it! Are there any secondary teachers out there with advise on teaching as a career (also from solicitors!), I'm starting to get quite stressed about what to do!


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## Ralphie (21 Jul 2006)

I really wouldn't go down the apprenticeship route unless you're 120% certain it's what you really want to do. It's not particularly glamorous and you do tend to get stuck with the stuff that no one else wants to do. It's very far removed from what you do in college. Clients have all these expectations from solicitors and will jump down your throat for no reason at all. All my friends are worried about job prospects because there is over 500 people on the PPC1 course this year. The fees for Blackhall are pretty pricy and it's money all the way. It's certainly not like Legally Blonde!! You can't really walk out the door at half five and some of my friends in the bigger firms have to stay at work until one in the morning. It's all about the bottom line unfortunately and the ideals you might have held dear when you first started out studying law, end up losing importance as you grow more world-weary.

I would say to leave it for a few years and relax. There's more to life than a pensionable job and I really envy people travelling around at the moment. Your masters might end up being worthless to you unless you are certain about what you want to achieve with it. Have you tried going to the Careers Service in NUIG and seeing what they have to offer you? 

Must say that Teaching sounds great, three months off to go travelling to wherever the plane will take you. Only prob is those pesky kids.


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## mallow (22 Jul 2006)

I second what Ralphie said.  Since you've already worked in some law firms, you have some idea what the job involves and if you were never sure about it in the first place I'd say that's a pretty good sign it's not the best job for you.  From where you are now, it would be another four years until you qualify, assuming you got your FE-1's first time and an apprenticeship, and that's getting harder every year.  Unless you're in the bigger firms, you get barely above minimum wage for those years and in many firms all the most boring work.  Lots of people go into it becuase they drifted in, their parents wanted them to or for the money or some kind of status.  That's not enough to make you happy in it when, as Ralphie said, clients get mental on you!  You'll see from posts in the mortgages thread about solicitors fees the kind of regard we're held in by a lot of people, so don't do it for any notion of status...Clients often don't understand what we're doing or why and in my experience tend to assume we're being nit-pickers, lazy, incompetent and overcharging them.

I work in a small place where I am out every day at 5:30 so you can have decent hours, but most people I know work longer.  A lot of the work is routine, especially at the bottom rungs and it's very detail oriented.  A lot of people (myself included) skipped over that part of the job description, but it's hard to concentrate on it every day if you're not naturally a nit-picker!! Also, I don't find there's any creativity in the job.  Maybe some people do but I don't see how.  If you need a bit of that, you may get bored.

The money is about €40k in Dublin when you qualify, less down the country and more in bigger firms.  It's good until you realize most of us have massive debts from trying to live in Dublin and have a life for about four years on terrible money.  Most people have their fees and some hangovers from their Australia year to pay off too.  

Buzybee's advice is good.  You have to put in the time thinking about what you're good at and like doing and start from there.  Use the What Colour is your Parachute book maybe, but you really have to put the effort into it.  Don't get bogged down in picking one job title too soon.  There are lots of ways into most careers, you may not need to do a Masters in anything so keep your options open.  I think you should know what work you want to do before studying for another year and paying a lot of money for a masters.  Maybe try a short evening course in psychology, while temping or something, since that appeals to you, to test the idea.  Or go talk to one and find out what it's really like.  A solicitor I once worked for would've loved to be a child psychologist instead....

I sympathize with not knowing what you want to do, I'm totally indecisive and still working on it.  It is unsettling, but you'd be amazed how many people are in the same boat, whatever age they are.  Good luck!


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## Noelle (24 Jul 2006)

Thanks everyone,

I understand what Ralphie and Mallow are saying about the apprenticeship route and i know it's a long and expensive way to go if I'm not certain. The only thing is I feel like that's all i can do and that it seems a waste to give it up at this stage....but on the other hand if I have a gut feeling that it's not for me it's probably a bigger waste doing it... I know the work isn't all that exciting especially conveyancing and that kind of stuff but I was hping that it would get better but maybe not!  I'm just a worrier and too indicisive and if I'm honest scared of getting stuck in a rut or drifting for too much longer.


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## examhell (24 Jul 2006)

Hi Noelle,

It would seem a shame to have passed your 4 FE1's and then give up on the others.  Also, you know the closing date for the next sitting is August, do you plan on doing the others then>?  r u working at the moment>


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## Noelle (24 Jul 2006)

Hi,

Thanks, funnily enough I was thinking of the application date this morning. I probably will sit them even though I'm a bit disilusioned at the minute, I appealed two but was only brought up a few per cent in one so didn't make a difference! I am working at the minute in a Solicitor's office, which to be honest is an eye opener and part of the reason I'm now thinking this is not at all what I want to do.


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## examhell (24 Jul 2006)

I know, im the same, sometimes I think theres a lot of rubbish and falsity involved with the job and i dont like the work, but thats becasue im in a corporate evironment.  Maybe it would be different in a smaller firm whre they dio more court work and its not all about billable hours.  Then again I worked down the country and there was pressure in that office too and the files were all over the place.  I doubt i will stay in it forever but i will certainly qualify since ive put so much into the FE1's

which ones have you done and how many left?  would u hope to get blackhall for next september?


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## Noelle (24 Jul 2006)

I've worked in a few smaller firms (on average 3/4 solicitors) and there is a fair bit of pressure there but it's mostly from clients and dealing with financial institutions. It can be monotonous but I don't think I would like working in a big firm either. 

I've done land, equity, tort and constitutional. Sept '07 because I wouldn't want to leave it any later.


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## Ralphie (25 Jul 2006)

There is no way that that is the only thing you can do with your law degree.

You can go into the Civil Service (which I would love!!)

have you tried any of those temporary research posts they have in the Courts/governemnt bodies?

There are so many things that you can do with a law degree, it won't go to waste.

You should go to a recruitment company and see what your options are.

Sit the FEs while you are thinking about it to keep that option for yourself.


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## HollyOlly (25 Jul 2006)

I'm only repeating what has already been said here Noelle but i feel like it must be reinforced from as many people possible! DO NOT go into a career that wouldn't make you happy. I'm the same age as you and in an apprenticeship that fortunately I love. I find the work challenging and exciting (not always but i find all the crap worth it). I know this is what i will be happy doing for the foreseeable future. I get paid pittance and the work is not easy but I don't mind going into work in the mornings and I've barely even taken many holidays (which in previous jobs I lived for!) An apprenticeship is too long and expensive to do just because you feel you should. THere are numerous things you could do with your degree. You could get a job in various companies (talking to recruitment agencies is a great idea). THen what often happens is those companies lead you down a particular path you are good at/ interested in AND THEN you can do further study with the company. Please dont continue with those awful stressful FE1s and apprentice applications if your heart isnt in it. It is very important to enjoy your job.


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## Noelle (27 Jul 2006)

Thanks Ralphie and Holly,

I appreciate all your advice.  I think I'm just waiting for the answer to fall into my lap, which I realise is never going to happen. I haven't got a clue what I might like to do and the fear of spending a year or possibly 2 doing the wrong thing is putting me off a masters.  Unless I'm doing something to distract myself I find my mind going over this and constantly worrying about it. I was probably hoping that someone would have the magic answer or have been in the exact same predicament but that's just wishful thinking! Thanks again though i appreciate all your suggestions.


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