# Evergreenfund Bank of Ireland



## scowlard (5 Jan 2009)

I have an evergreenfund only 1 year now. I have lost a substancial amount of money already. Is there anyone in the same boat? Any advice should I just out now or hang on???


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## mercman (5 Jan 2009)

Yep so do I. Whilst the fund is down an awful amount, I have a series of disputes with Bank of Ireland / New Ireland. I placed a substantial amount with them in a variety of funds and although I was offered an Allocation Bonus and reduced Management fees, in writing, after they cashed my cheque refused to honour the offer.


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## mercman (5 Jan 2009)

To answer your question, I work on the basis at this stage as to how much worse could it actually get ? Have you got an alternative investment strategy ??


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## ClubMan (5 Jan 2009)

Have you read any of the many existing _Evergreen _threads?


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## scowlard (5 Jan 2009)

Yea I just read the threads there. I'm very young and don't understand alot about this really. I got a large sum of money from a car accident I was involved in. I tried to be sensable and was advised by BOI to put it into this fund. Didn't want to blow it but looks like I've done just that.
Oh I worked in the branch of BOI and it was one of my collegues who was the invesgtment manager that advised me that this was the best place.


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## mercman (5 Jan 2009)

As you were in the know so to speak, did the colleague not advise you of the circumstances that yiou would have been better off investing through New Ireland and a mixture of funds. The same investment gets a better deal via NI. Are you in the country (outside Dublin) by any chance ??


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## scowlard (5 Jan 2009)

He never mentioned anything about New Ireland or how I would get a better deal going through them. I am in Dublin


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## mercman (5 Jan 2009)

There seems to be a very careless way in which BoI sell their investment products. Did you even get a Bonus or reduced Management charges ???


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## scowlard (5 Jan 2009)

Nope nothing


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## mercman (5 Jan 2009)

Well if I were you I'd march right back and ask your ex colleague as to why you received none of the items mentioned and as to why you weren't directed to invest into a number of funds. As a point of note other brokers non associated with NI would of automatically steered yiou away from a single fund and got you the bonuses without asking.


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## johnnygman (6 Jan 2009)

mercman said:


> As you were in the know so to speak, did the colleague not advise you of the circumstances that yiou would have been better off investing through New Ireland and a mixture of funds. The same investment gets a better deal via NI. Are you in the country (outside Dublin) by any chance ??


 
If the person worked for Bank of Ireland and walked into the investment person to discuss investment why would he tell the person to go down the road to a broker? Why do you assume that he would be aware of what charging structures brokers might be  on offer through them for the same fund.
Even if the investment person was aware, that is like saying someone who walks into a Toyota Garage being told to go to another branch/dealer as you might get the car cheaper there!!
Pointless response, the person has already invested and agreed to whatever charging structure was offered, he is looking for advice on the the market outlook.
No one here has a crystal ball, i imagine the investment was sold on a long term basis and at this point that would seem to be sensible option to continue this route, assuming you have put some funds to one side for emergency's etc..


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## mercman (6 Jan 2009)

johnnygman said:


> If the person worked for Bank of Ireland and walked into the investment person to discuss investment why would he tell the person to go down the road to a broker? Why do you assume that he would be aware of what charging structures brokers might be  on offer through them for the same fund.



The people working in the Bank are fully aware of the other offers. They are also aware of the other deals available. They control the remuneration of the Brokers not vice versa. I hold correspondence from the higher level of NI stating that they are aware of this carry on. As the instigators and controllers of the fund, and also part of the Bank, they are responsible for advising their clients of the best choice of investment route as well as meant to be in a position to advise the client correctly. Simple as that.


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## DeeFox (6 Jan 2009)

I invested a small amount of money in Evergreen around three years ago.  I went in about six months ago and said I was worried about it and asked what advice they could give me.  The adviser in the bank said that my money was in high risk shares but that I could change it into low risk shares within the Evergreen portfolio effective almost immediately.  This is what I did at the time and I'll review it again at the end of this month.


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## johnnygman (6 Jan 2009)

mercman said:


> The people working in the Bank are fully aware of the other offers. They are also aware of the other deals available. They control the remuneration of the Brokers not vice versa. I hold correspondence from the higher level of NI stating that they are aware of this carry on. As the instigators and controllers of the fund, and also part of the Bank, they are responsible for advising their clients of the best choice of investment route as well as meant to be in a position to advise the client correctly. Simple as that.


 

What are you talking about, you havent addressed my point at all, re telling the guy to go marching into his local BOI Life rep.
I was referring to the rep who this person met, they would have no control whatsoever in relation to what commision or fund managment fees are given either to themselves or to brokers.
You seem to have no understanding  of the role these guys have, they are salesmen/ financial adviser and are *tied agents* and have no control of the running of the fund, or the charging structures.

This guy works for Bank Of Ireland, when a customer comes in to see him for instance about a mortgage, does he refer him down to AIB or the nearest broker  for a better rate if there is one available??
Unless he own a brokerage aswell as working for BOI i doubt it.


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## mercman (7 Jan 2009)

If you are trying to have a personal attack on me it won't work.

The Tied agents have full control within certain limits concerning Bonus and Management Charges. I have full understanding as to how these guys work. It seems pretty apparant that you haven't a clue. I never stated that they have control of the running of the funds. However it is morally wrong that New Ireland have control of two sets of Tied agents - the NI Tied agents and the BoI Life Tied Agents and the other Brokers that try and sell their funds. They (Head Office) do control what they can offer and the charging structures. In my case I had an offer from Head Office which they refused to comply with, but the offer was promised to me if i paid a fee !!

Furthermore I suggest you read the Code of Conduct as set out by the Financial Regulator before you enter into criticising me.


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## NorthDrum (7 Jan 2009)

scowlard said:


> I have an evergreenfund only 1 year now. I have lost a substancial amount of money already. Is there anyone in the same boat? Any advice should I just out now or hang on???


 
Heres a few things you should of been made aware of when investing in the evergreen fund:


Medium Term Risk Investment
Value can go up or down
Roughly 50 - 75% invested in Equities (which means at any stage three quarters of your fund is invested in higher risk equities)
Over longer periods of time 10years + , Evergreen fund has historically outperformed other managed funds (just a general statement just to highlight its success in the past)
You should be thinking minimum of 5 Years in this fund before moving it out.
Penalties on encashment year 5 = 5%, Year 4 = 4% etc etc
When you took out the policy, was a factfind done on you?? Did you get a reasons why statement??

These are two pieces of documents you should of encountered during the sales process.

To be honest, what people in the likes of the Evergreen fund should do going forward is open for discussion. I know a hugely reputable broker who had taken all his clients out of equities at the beginning of last year and felt end of August was best time for them to get back in. This just shows that nobody predicted what was coming, which makes people even more concerned about predicting what may happen going forward.

The basic rule of Investments of Balance Managed funds is that they generally bounce back and whoever is on the train when they return normally make money on their investment (very broad explanation, not set in stone). This is not a guarantee, but anybody investing in managed funds should be aware of this. Many financial advisors would argue against you doing anything, particularly if you are younger, they would say that you have time to make back any loses.

For yourself, the decision you make has to be based on how you feel now and what risks or losses you are willing to accept. 

What are you goals now?? 

To break even or to continue invested in a medium risk fund??

If you are down about 30%, would you be happy if you ended up with what you started with in 5 years or so??

These are some of the questions you need to ask yourself when making a decision. Dont mull over the losses, make a decision on what you want to do going forward. Either stick with it or decide you cant deal with the volatility. Bare in mind that these last two years have been two of the worst historically.

Moving most of your money to cash or gilts has the benefit of taking most of the worry away of investing (these are options in New Ireland not so sure about BOI) but then the risks are that you either do not make gains greater then inflation and possibly dont ever make back what you put into it.

Another way you could look at it is perhaps moving a percentage or portion of your fund into less risky investments. This means you dont get all the losses or gains associated with being in more volatile markets.

What I would say to you is if you do leave it there and your money goes back up to what you put in it, dont just leave it there, think about how you felt when it was down 30% and decide then, perhaps I should leave a percentage of it in less risky funds. Its easy to want to sell when prices are going down, but harder to decide to sell when prices are going up.


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## johnnygman (7 Jan 2009)

mercman said:


> If you are trying to have a personal attack on me it won't work.
> 
> The Tied agents have full control within certain limits concerning Bonus and Management Charges. I have full understanding as to how these guys work. It seems pretty apparant that you haven't a clue. I never stated that they have control of the running of the funds. However it is morally wrong that New Ireland have control of two sets of Tied agents - the NI Tied agents and the BoI Life Tied Agents and the other Brokers that try and sell their funds. They (Head Office) do control what they can offer and the charging structures. In my case I had an offer from Head Office which they refused to comply with, but the offer was promised to me if i paid a fee !!
> 
> Furthermore I suggest you read the Code of Conduct as set out by the Financial Regulator before you enter into criticising me.


 
Who is making a personal attack? i have no knowledge about you personally or what you do for a living as you do of me, no one cares either, this is a simple discussion, calm yourself down.
Dont try to let on you are not a biased opinion as i have seen you spouting on about this supposed letter & issues now for some time in other threads totally taking over the threads and questions for you own purpose of having a pop at New Ireland/BOI Life etc(deserved maybe? but that isnt the issue at hand)..
Its a waste of time trying to reason with you so ill leave it at that as you have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding this fund and cannot be objective.
Dont tell me what to read son, i could level the same accusation at yourself regarding your understanding of this whole argument.
I dont want to fall out with you so lets agree to disagree and get on with it. Good Luck.


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## mercman (7 Jan 2009)

johnnygman said:


> Dont try to let on you are not a biased opinion as i have seen you spouting on about this supposed letter & issues now for some time in other threads totally taking over the threads and questions for you own purpose of having a pop at New Ireland/BOI Life  etc(deserved maybe? but that isnt the issue at hand)..
> Its a waste of time trying to reason with you so ill leave it at that as you have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding this fund and cannot be objective.
> Dont tell me what to read son, i could level a the same accusation at yourself regarding your understanding of this whole argument.
> I dont want to fall out with you so lets agree to disagree and get on with it. Good Luck.



My opinion is a case of fact. The original intention was not to have a pop at any persons or bodies. It is to offer advice to others that their investment may be better served with other providers. I have no chip on my shoulder at all. I just wonder as to how others would feel if they were made an offer, handed over the money and the offer was then withdrawn other than to be offered the deal for a further fee would react.


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## johnnygman (7 Jan 2009)

I understand your point but this person has already invested in the fund and has been in it for over a year, he is a bank employee and is not exactly a lay person, he would have referred customers to these reps during his employment for advice and investments in exactly this fund. The kind of advice he needs is in relation to his options going forward, i think NorthDrum has covered this off very well .so best left at that m8.


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## scowlard (7 Jan 2009)

Thank you so much for your advice Northdrum it was very helpfull.
As I am quite young and put the money away on the basis of not needing it for the near future I think I will just ride the storm. It's money that I never had in the first place so right now I'm not missing it, Just a little concerned. I knew people would be in the same boat so I wanted to see what there reaction was to it.
As for you two lunatics Johnnygman and Mercman thanks for your advice but I didn't want to read all about you arguing like kids at each other grow up.
And no-one said I was a he. I am a woman!!!!!


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## mercman (8 Jan 2009)

scowlard said:


> As for you two lunatics Johnnygman and Mercman thanks for your advice but I didn't want to read all about you arguing like kids at each other grow up.



scowlard, I extend my apologies to you for hijacking your thread snd for having an on line argument, Frustration is seeping in from my part !! I wish yiu well with your endeavours.


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## shipibo (8 Jan 2009)

mercman said:


> scowlard, I extend my apologies to you for hijacking your thread snd for having an on line argument, Frustration is seeping in from my part !! I wish yiu well with your endeavours.




Mercman,

    You have my sympathies, your "pal" needs to lay of the coffee ....


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## johnnygman (9 Jan 2009)

It would seem he is your "pal" dub with that kind of stupid closing comment to something which has been cleared up and left at that.
Nice


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## mercman (9 Jan 2009)

There is little point in turning AAM into a Battleground between parties that do not know each other. Sometime, someplace and somewhere this debacle will be history.
It's pretty obvious that many people read these posts. I have received a mail this morning that the legal department wil revert to me in a few days with answers to my queries. Not bad for over two years waiting.


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## Tara Rua (23 Jan 2009)

I went to Bank of Irleland with a lump sum. Put it into my account. Was harrassed on a weekly basis until I agree to invest. Made it clear that I had no income, facing major surgeries and no pension. Could not afford to lose any of it. I eventually could resist the hard sell no longer. It was put into Evergreen S9, Innovator S9,Global Equity. 2 days ago I realised that half of my money was gone. I understood it was in for 5-6 years and was guaranteed. I am devastated. Should I cut my losses and pull the lot or sit tight?


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## mercman (23 Jan 2009)

Tara Rua said:


> I understood it was in for 5-6 years and was guaranteed.



Does any of your the paperwork you received mention any of these matters. You will need to check all of your papers and if you have a trail you could have a case for mis-selling. The manner in which the BoI sell their Investment products leaves an awful lot to be desired. Did you manage to obtain an Allocation Bonus or reduced Management Charges for the lump sum investments ? Moving forward nothing goes down forever although we are in pretty difficult times at present. Without knowing your age profile, it is pretty difficult to form a direct opinion as to where you go next.


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## Tara Rua (23 Jan 2009)

I am 55. Told them at the time I knew nothing about investments. Stressed i need no or low risk. Didn't read the mountain of paperwork they sent me. What's an Alocation Bonus and i think I paid the normal management fees. It was never mentioned


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## mercman (23 Jan 2009)

Well just to put you in a correct picture, BoI LIfe are Tied Agents of New Ireland. Now for investments over €100 k, it is offered through ordinary non associated brokers an allocation Bonus of up to 3% and reduced Management Charges of 0.5% at least which should have been explained to you. 

Tara, you will have to go through each piece of paper and if they harrassed you pass the matter to the Financial Services Ombudsman. I know exactly what you are going through. New Ireland do have good fund Managers but their sales tactics are a disgrace.


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## Tara Rua (23 Jan 2009)

Thanks for that. Will find out about that and wade through the paperwork.
Any advice on should I cut my losses now while I still have something or sit tight? What would you do ? (I know you can't see into the future but I need guidance)


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## mercman (23 Jan 2009)

Again without knowing your personal circumstances it is very difficult to comment. My own view is that the Equity markets will make a recovery towards the end of this year. The UK and Ireland are ina worse position and will take longer. So basically if you have no immediate requirement for the money hang on would be my opinion.


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