# Warning in Irish on Cigarette packs



## oldtimer (24 Jan 2008)

Will it make any difference, putting a warning in irish on packets of cigarettes? Its costing a fortune using irish in EU, printing all government forms in irish and now this? What a waste of money


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## shesells (24 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

I agree 100%. Some people think their issues are worthy but when their are patients on trolleys and rat-infested schools, the fact that someone else is wasting my tax money (as well as the government!) infuriates me!


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## ubiquitous (24 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

This is bizarre. Talk about diluting your marketing message. Did Rothmans or John Player Inc think it up?


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## Purple (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Maybe they realise that most people won't understand the warning. If a health or government group complains they can just point out that Irish is our first language.

As for the cost, I don’t accept the argument that if we spent the money on schools or hospitals they would be better. The problem there is one of waste and bad allocation of resources, not funding.


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## damson (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

In fairness, the government didn't choose to do this without being pushed: It's as a result of a court case brought by a primary school teacher from Cavan (who works in the Rathcairn Gaeltacht in Co Meath).
From the _Irish Times_: 





> Proceedings brought by Caitríona Uí Riain against the Minister for Health and Children and the State were settled yesterday on the basis of the State agreeing to a mandatory order requiring it to amend the relevant law by October 1st to provide that health warning notices and information notices on cigarette packets be published in the same size in Irish and English...
> ... In her action, Ms Uí Riain claimed that a statutory instrument of 2003 which was intended to give effect to the 2001 directive did not properly implement the directive regarding the information appearing on tobacco products in that it did not require the health warnings and other information notices to be printed in Irish in the same size with clear priority for the Irish language as the first official language.


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## Rovers1901 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Who pays for the warnings to be put on the packs? Is it not a statutory obligation imposed on the tobacco companies?

You either have a bilingual language policy or you don't. If people are so unhappy start campaigning for constitutional change and get the reference to Irish being first language dropped.

How effective are those warnings anyway? Has anyone ever seen someone go up to a counter ask for cigarettes and then back out when they realise there's a health warning on them? You could have them written in proto Indo- European and they'd be as effective in my opinion.


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## Simeon (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

I think that in this day and age everybody knows the dangers of smoking. That teacher from Cavan, (working in an artificially created Gaeltacht) has an agenda. One of the reasons why teachers are not elected for jury service is their inability to be impartial. Look here, if our children did some other study rather than Irish, they would be a bit more proficient at being well rounded individuals. I read in the papers over the past few days that the last person who spoke 'Alaskan' has just recently passed away. Where do you stop this silly bi-lingual stuff ....... when there are 5000 native speakers or just one left? Do they have health notices in Latin in the Vatican State. Or in ancient Greek for those inhabitants of Mt. Athos.


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## MOB (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

"Look here, if our children did some other study rather than Irish, they would be a bit more proficient at being well rounded individuals."

Strange then that children from Gaelscoileanna seem to be at a decided academic advantage in later years. And remember - this a reasonably free market: most of the newer Gaeilscoileanna are in non-gaeltacht areas, and are oversubscribed.

You can certainly argue about whether the Irish language specifically needs subsidy and support.  However, it is worth bearing in mind that we do not need to approach the debate in terms of whether or not the Irish language should be preserved: there is a bigger issue, of which we are part.  There is a much larger debate - which is the issue of whether we should (globally) be making any attempts to preserve linguistic diversity, or whether it is in fact a good thing that many languages should die out and that the world should basically operate (eventually) with just  4 or 5 major language groups.  This is a very interesting debate, but one which is beyond the scope of the topic here today.


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## gebbel (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Slightly off topic but I must say that the amount of anti-Irish language sentiment on this site is a real eye-opener. In the last week or so, I've read so many negative posts from how bad the language sounds to pot-shots at Irish language placenames. The Scots and Welsh show pride in their language, can we not do the same?
As for the Irish warning on cigarette packs: brilliant, I'm all for it. Let the smoking visitors to our land know that we have a culture, heritage and language of our own. One that we are not prepared to let die, and keep us distinct from our neighbours across the water.


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## Purple (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



gebbel said:


> One that we are not prepared to let die,


 I'm not sure why but in the context of a health warning on a cigarette box I find that ironic...


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## dicey_reilly (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

"Strange then that children from Gaelscoileanna seem to be at a decided academic advantage in later years."

As far as I remember - the 'academic advantage' when I was a lad (c.30 years ago)- was that students choosing to answer exams through Irish were given a 10% premium to their results. It was not that they learnt more or were 'brighter' just answered in a different language to their fellow competitors...........

Discrimination or what?

Dicey


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## Simeon (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Yes, agreed. These pupils do extremely well in both exams and later in life. Do they still get a percentage lift for going to all Irish schools? I'd imagine that most of these pupils would be from academic and more professional homes ....... so there would be a more serious approach taken to academia. Wall to wall Gerry Springer et al would not be the norm. Equally, if these pupils went to an ordinary school ....... they would prosper because of the home ethos. So, if they went to a school doing subjects through Esperanto ........ they would get similiar results. Now, I'm not invoking setting up an Esperanto commune at Maam ........ but if I was, I'm sure that some fruitcake with a pro Esperanto slant would start hitting the government for their five minutes of fame.


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## MrMan (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> (working in an artificially created Gaeltacht)



What does this matter?


> I'd imagine that most of these pupils would be from academic and more professional homes ....... so there would be a more serious approach taken to academia.



Considering that not that long ago the majority of homes in Ireland wouldn't have reflected this description, yet todays 20/30/40 somethings have done all right for themselves. I've come from a background where both parents finished school by 14 (to bring in some income), yet both have always pushed for better education for my family. On the flip side I could point to plenty of affluent families with academic parents whose kids have simply gone off the rails. Your view on the classes seems rather skewed.



> but if I was, I'm sure that some fruitcake with a pro Esperanto slant would start hitting the government for their five minutes of fame.



Are you calling those that want to preserve our native language fruitcakes?


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## demoivre (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



MOB said:


> Strange then that children from Gaelscoileanna seem to be at a decided academic advantage in later years.



How do you know it's *because *children attend gaelscoil that they gain an academic advantage in later years? Even if  there is ( and I have no proof that there is )  an association between attending a gaelscoil and having an academic advantage in later years, does not mean that attending a gaelscoil *will* result in an academic advantage in later years . Do they not they teach you in gaelscoil that correlation does not prove causation?


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## Calico (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

All I know is that I hated being taught Irish as a kid. 

Because it was compulsory it really made me hate the language.

And after all those years, I barely have 2 words....


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## MrMan (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> Because it was compulsory it really made me hate the language.



so was english and maths.


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## Simeon (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Hi there MrMan. An artificially created Gaeltacht ....... let the market decide. If there were enough people wanting to speak Irish there would be no need for government funding. 
 On your second point ..... successful people seem to settle in more affluent areas. So their kids will want to live in similiar ecosystems ....... those who are ambitious will and those that go off the rails may. A few will not.  But, on the whole, success breeds success. But most people strive to do better and knowingly push their kids in the right direction.  I think you will see more casualties  on the working class estates ...... crime, unemployment, health issues. All the socio-economic problems that the government earmark. Good for you and your siblings that you had a good grounding. Life is not a level playing field.
 Finally ..... I use the word fruitcake in a lighthearted way. But you do have the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe ...... if you know what I mean.
 No offence was meant in any of the above ....... just my take on things.


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## Rovers1901 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



Calico said:


> All I know is that I hated being taught Irish as a kid.
> 
> Because it was compulsory it really made me hate the language.
> 
> And after all those years, I barely have 2 words....



Do you hate English and Maths too?


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## Simeon (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Do you hate English and Maths too ......... Most people will agree that both these subjects are necessary to get on in life. Irish is not ........ unless you go for certain government jobs etc. Even the people of Dingle said enough was enough (of government and Irish language pushers). Would the Irish speaking people in receipt of grants (for whatever reason) be less capable of accepting such largesse if those bi-lingual letters were in English only. Incidentally, does anyone know the ratings for T na G?


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## MOB (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

"How do you know it's because children attend gaelscoil that they gain an academic advantage in later years? Even if there is ( and I have no proof that there is ) an association between attending a gaelscoil and having an academic advantage in later years, does not mean that attending a gaelscoil will result in an academic advantage in later years . Do they not they teach you in gaelscoil that correlation does not prove causation?"

That's not really the point;   In a free market, parents are in fact choosing gaeilscoileanna, and the children of those parents are indeed showing better academic and overall progress.  

There are three possibilities: that these children are doing better than average in spite of their parents' choice, that they are doing better because of their parents' choice, or that they are doing better due to other unrelated factors.  

The point is that there is no evidence whatever to support the assertion that children do better without Irish and there is some evidence which is at least consistent with the assertion that they do better with Irish.


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## demoivre (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



MOB said:


> "How do you know it's because children attend gaelscoil that they gain an academic advantage in later years? Even if there is ( and I have no proof that there is ) an association between attending a gaelscoil and having an academic advantage in later years, does not mean that attending a gaelscoil will result in an academic advantage in later years . Do they not they teach you in gaelscoil that correlation does not prove causation?"
> 
> That's not really the point;   In a free market, parents are in fact choosing gaeilscoileanna, and the children of those parents are indeed showing better academic and overall progress.
> 
> ...



This is an  incorrect deduction and you are missing the crucial point. Because ( according to you ) there is a link between attending gaelscoil and better academic progress does *not mean* that attending gaelscoil will lead to better academic progress precisely because future academic success is dependent on a number of factors such as ability of student, standard of teaching, motivation of student, motivation of peers, social class etc. etc. Statistics 101  decimates your argument.


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## MOB (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

This is getting silly.  I have not offered or sought to offer 'proof' that attending gaelscoil will lead to better academic progress.  I have said that there is evidence which is consistent with the hypothesis.  I have said that there is no evidence (at least none that I am aware of) which contradicts the hypothesis.  I accept that this does not constitute proof.  With respect, so what?   The facts are consistent with the hypothesis.  Parents, in a free market, are voting with their feet.

Failure to advance a positive proof does not mean that a hypothesis is disproved. Statistics 101 indeed.....


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## ubiquitous (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

I thought this debate was about warnings _as gaeilge_ on cigarette packs rather than Gaelscoileanna. I questioned (semi-ironically) earlier whether some of the cigarette companies had sponsored this move. Anything which dilutes the effect of a message like "Smokers Die Younger" on a cigarette pack (for example by including translation into a second language) is imho to be regretted.


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## rabbit (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



oldtimer said:


> Will it make any difference, putting a warning in irish on packets of cigarettes? Its costing a fortune using irish in EU, printing all government forms in irish and now this? What a waste of money


 
I agree 100%, original poster.   What a waste of money, when old people are on hospital trolleys and our rat-infested cold old schools are not up to international standard.  Irish is a dead old language, and an ugly one as well.   We should be spending less on it, not more.     Stop any Irish person in the street and ask them to help give directions to a German or French person -in their own language - and 99% cannot.


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## daveco23 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



gebbel said:


> . The Scots and Welsh show pride in their language, can we not do the same?
> .


Scots and welsh don`t ram it down their schoolkids throats for 14 years. Any interest in their native tongues is by choice, not force.
New Carlsberg ads are a perfect reflection of most peoples attitude to the Irish language thanks to the States forcefeeding...


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## z103 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> This is getting silly. I have not offered or sought to offer 'proof' that attending gaelscoil will lead to better academic progress. I have said that there is evidence which is consistent with the hypothesis.
> 
> Failure to advance a positive proof does not mean that a hypothesis is disproved. Statistics 101 indeed.....



It's pretty simple really. There are compounding factors that you are not taking into consideration that invalidates the experiment.

In short, students that attend gaeilscoileanna are not a representative sample of students. The sample is biased.


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## MrMan (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Simeon, I didn't take offence, I was just intrigued because your view differed so much from mine. I don't agree with success breeds success, and my point was that we are now a successful nation both academically and professionally, but this was brought about by ambition and need. I didn't want my background to sound like a hard luck story because it isn't its the way things were for many people, I was lucky in that my parents were hard working and even though they were not academically inclined I believe that their work ethic was of most use to my own professional life than anything.
My point probably isn't being put across very well - writers block!



> If there were enough people wanting to speak Irish there would be no need for government funding.



I do agree with you that there are fruitcakes that take this issue too far and I'm not totally in favour in publishing everything in Irish aswell as English, but I think its a mistake to take it a step further and to suggest that we simply let the language die out. I think Irish should remain compulsory but the curriculum should be re-visited so that we are not simply 'learning' it for the sake of it. After 15 years or so of learning it we should all be fluent so there is something wrong there. It cannot be of any harm to us as a nation to be able to speak a native tongue.


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## rabbit (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

What is harm is the way it was rammed down our throats for 13 years at school, what is harm is the billions spent on it , what is harm is the waste of taxpayers money wasted.   Despite the time and money spent on our education system, there is something wrong when you stop any Irish person in the street and ask them to help give directions to a continental tourist eg a lost elderly German or French person -in their own language ( German or French )  - and 99% cannot.
A foreign industrialist told me many years ago Ireland reminded him of a third world country.   He was not just thinking of the corruption at the time , or the billions received in aid from Germany and the UK ( through the EC ) etc.


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## sully (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

If Irish was truly our first language then all students should all be taught through the medium of Irish. The reason why Irish is being let down is by the quality of secondary level teachers. I seem to recall being better at irish in primary school than i was at leaving cert. If all education was done through Irish and all teachers were fluent then that would filter down to the students and then this argument would be null and void.

It seems ironic that there are language support teachers in schools to help people learn english but none there to help them to learn our other native language, perhaps that teacher should also take that situation to court.In that, the language support teachers should be instilled to teach irish as well but that would mean more expense ;-)

As for the usefulness of Irish, this is not a particularly good reason to not teach a subject in schools. if we applied the logic of usefulnesss of a subject to job prospects then an awful lot of subjects would need to be got rid of. For eg If you do Art/Music/PE/Religion etc then the amount of people who use these daily in their job are few and far between so should all these be scrapped as well.

also English and maths are also compulsory, but i cant remember the last time i needed to know/use english poetry, or mathematical formulas/theorems. I probably do use simple addition/substraction/Multiplication etc but that does mean that most of the maths that we learn is of no use to us so why should we have to do it.

The majority of students also do a foreign language to leaving cert as well, and you would be well pushed to find anyone who could give basic directions in the language they learned in secondary scool for 5/6 years to a tourist... So again it seems that the teaching standards in seconary schools seem to let us down here...


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## MOB (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

"It's pretty simple really. There are compounding factors that you are not taking into consideration that invalidates the experiment.

In short, students that attend gaeilscoileanna are not a representative sample of students. The sample is biased."

It's not an experiment.  We don't have the ability (or the wish) to experiment upon children in this way- there is no experiment we can ethically carry out which would allow us to examine the effects of being at a gaeilscoil in an environment where all other 'compunding factors', as you put it, are removed.  

We can, however, formulate hypotheses and examine available data to see if the data support or contradict the hypotheses.  I have heard nothing to contradict, much less invalidate, the hypothesis that children who go to Gaeilscoileanna do better.   There is much data, the most compelling being that parents - given a choice  - are voting with their feet, to support the hypothesis.

Bear in mind, please, that my initial post was in response to an assertion that children would do better without Irish.  This assertion is simply not supported by the facts - and I have pointed out, several times now, the main fact that tends to contradict this assertion. 

The hypothesis that children gain an advantage from going to a gaeilscoil is supported (not proven - just supported) by the facts.    If anyone has an alternate hypothesis and if they can point to any facts which support it, or which actually contradict what I have said, I would be delighted to hear from them but, please, no more argument of the 'as your case is not 100% proven you are therefore definitely wrong" variety.


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## z103 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> I think Irish should remain compulsory but the curriculum should be re-visited so that we are not simply 'learning' it for the sake of it.



Why should Irish remain compulsory? Computer studies should be compulsory, not Irish.

Learning Irish should be the same category as learning Irish music.


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## MrMan (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> Why should Irish remain compulsory? Computer studies should be compulsory, not Irish.



Its a cultural thing. If we turned our backs on all that is hard we wouldn't be in the 1st world country we're in today. Culture stands the test of time, even computer studies will be surpassed.


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## z103 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> Its a cultural thing. If we turned our backs on all that is hard we wouldn't be in the 1st world country we're in today. Culture stands the test of time, even computer studies will be surpassed.



What would be wrong with treating it the same as Irish music? - Just let those who have in interest in learning it, learn it? This is not turning our back on it.

When computer studies is surpassed, then drop that too, and move onto the next thing. It's all about keeping ahead, or learning what is relevant.

(As for Ireland being a first world country - well that's debatable, and probably a topic for another thread. We certainly have a lot of rich property developers.)


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## csirl (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*

Back to the cigarette package.

I think this is a bad thing as it will mean that the english language warnings will either be reduced in size (to accommodate Irish alongside) or half of them will be replaced by Irish language warnings.

This will significantly reduced the effectiveness of the warnings as most of the population do not speak Irish. Again, I wonder if the ciggy companies are sponsoring this lawsuit. This teacher has probably cost some lives in this country.

To contribute to the side debate on Irish in schools going on simultaneously on this thread, IMHO if (1) the bonus percentage in exams, (2) the quota places in some courses/jobs and (3) the absence of children of foreign extraction in Irish speaking schools 

were all eliminated, we would have very very few parents wanting to send their kids to gaelscoil.


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## MrMan (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> What would be wrong with treating it the same as Irish music? - Just let those who have in interest in learning it, learn it? This is not turning our back on it.



Because I think alot of parents would have a similar attitude to you and discourage their children from taking up the language, I think it has to be helped along.



> (As for Ireland being a first world country - well that's debatable, and probably a topic for another thread. We certainly have a lot of rich property developers.)



I think anyone who regards Ireland as anything but a 1st world country doesn't appreciate exactly what this country has to offer. It is not neccessary to be rich to live here either.



> This teacher has probably cost some lives in this country.



When was the last time somebody has actually not bought a 20 pack because of the health warning. The health warning means nothing and this teacher hasn't cost lives, it's a ridiculous statement to make.


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## z103 (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



> Because I think alot of parents would have a similar attitude to you and discourage their children from taking up the language, I think it has to be helped along.


I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from learning something new, whether it is Irish language, juggling, Irish Music or Latin. On the other hand, I wouldn't bother forcing people to learn stuff they don't want to learn either. 

You can bring a horse to water, but can't make it drink.


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## boaber (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



ubiquitous said:


> I thought this debate was about warnings _as gaeilge_ on cigarette packs rather than Gaelscoileanna. I questioned (semi-ironically) earlier whether some of the cigarette companies had sponsored this move. Anything which dilutes the effect of a message like "Smokers Die Younger" on a cigarette pack (for example by including translation into a second language) is imho to be regretted.



I'm in the middle of reading Paul McKenna's book _Quit Smoking Today_.  In it he states the following:



> You don't need to hear about cancer, gangrene or heart disease - you don't even need to read the 'smoking kills' labels on the side of a cigarette packet.
> 
> Cigarette companies love these warning because they know that when most people who smoke stop to think about how dangerous it is, they have to have another cigarette to calm themselves down.



So if Mr McKenna's theory is correct, then I'd say the cigarette companies don't want an Irish language version.


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## gebbel (25 Jan 2008)

*Re: Irish warning on cigarette packs*



csirl said:


> Back to the cigarette package.
> 
> I think this is a bad thing as it will mean that the english language warnings will either be reduced in size (to accommodate Irish alongside) or half of them will be replaced by Irish language warnings.
> 
> ...


 
Understand Irish or not, everybody knows that the message is a warning, not a message stating that cigarettes will give you longer life. I don't understand the message on a pack of Polish cigarettes my workmate smokes, but I sure know it's a warning.  It will not diminish the "effect", or whatever that means. The will to stop smoking should not depend on what language the warning is in.
Smoking is a dirty filthy habit, but I'm all in favour of the Irish warning here.


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## rabbit (26 Jan 2008)

As long as the warning in English does not diminish in size.   Otherwise, if it does, that Irish language fanatic will cause countless extra deaths in years to come due to lung cancer.   The warning in the language people can read / understand needs to stay at least the same.


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## ajapale (26 Jan 2008)

Perahaps warnings should be in the form of icons or photographs which would be independant of language?


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## damson (26 Jan 2008)

There's already provision for that. The EU approved images for this purpose back in 2004 (you can see them here) and at the time, the Irish government said they'd be among the first to adopt them. From this autumn in the UK it will be obligatory to have one of 15 different images on cigarette boxes, and from autumn 2009 they will be required on other tobacco products. I think Belgium may already have them in place.


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## ajapale (26 Jan 2008)

Thanks  					,

As can be seen from the following examples the language does not matter if the picture has enough impact 







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[broken link removed]


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## RainyDay (27 Jan 2008)

Just FYI, I heard Irish being spoken among family members on the Luas green line yesterday.


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## stir crazy (27 Jan 2008)

damson said:


> There's already provision for that. The EU approved images for this purpose back in 2004 (you can see them here) and at the time, the Irish government said they'd be among the first to adopt them. From this autumn in the UK it will be obligatory to have one of 15 different images on cigarette boxes, and from autumn 2009 they will be required on other tobacco products. I think Belgium may already have them in place.



I have seen a  picture on packets of Australian cigarettes 2 years ago which was far more graphic than on most of those in the pdf above.


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## z103 (27 Jan 2008)

> Just FYI, I heard Irish being spoken among family members on the Luas green line yesterday.


Just FYI, I heard some traditional Irish music in a pub a three or four months ago.


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## MrMan (28 Jan 2008)

> As long as the warning in English does not diminish in size. Otherwise, if it does, that Irish language fanatic will cause countless extra deaths in years to come due to lung cancer. The warning in the language people can read / understand needs to stay at least the same.


An irish language fanatic, give me a break. Do you believe people are that stupid  that they need to wait until they read the warning ona pack before they realise that this isn't a life enhancing product? I remember years ago a new brand came out ina black packet I'm nearly sure the brand was 'death' or 'poison' and they were snapped up by teenagers cause they were cool. Everyone knows the dangers, not everyone cares.



> Just FYI, I heard some traditional Irish music in a pub a three or four months ago.



You seem to have quite a grudge against our language, even your last point 'you can bring a horse to water...' was anti Irish, but not anti math or english. Give children a choice and they prob won't even go to school, so a little shove in the right direction is needed.


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## ClubMan (28 Jan 2008)

I remember the notice on buses years ago "ná cath tabac" and used to enjoy mistranslating it as "don't throw tobacco". Not sure but it might have been a _Myles na gCopaleenism_ that I read somewhere...


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## rabbit (28 Jan 2008)

leghorn said:


> Just FYI, I heard some traditional Irish music in a pub a three or four months ago.


 

I saw a pub in Ireland advertising traditional Irish music once.  Its a good few years since I left school ( as auld Mr. Brennan used to say ) , and I have been to every county in Ireland ( most of them on many occassions ) and I have never heard Irish spoken , or seen anyone buying or reading an Irish language newspaper or magazine.  Even in the Gaeltacht everyone spoke English ...indeed in the petrol station + pub there it was said the Irish language thing was just to get Udaras grants , gaeltacht money etc.    What a waste and pain it was having the language shoved down my throat in school all those years ago.


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## Simeon (28 Jan 2008)

Well said Rabbit! I've heard it spoken (naturally) on two occasions ....... once about 20 years ago in Galway, the other time in Hungary(!) many years ago. This was brought about by a few female teachers from Dublin wanting to avoid the attention of a some local fellows - which they did with aplomb! By 'naturally' I mean spontaneous - not just a couple of Gaelgoirs showing off their prowess. The evolution of language, from monosyllabic grunts to todays rich tapestry is beautiful to behold. Lets keep it going forward.


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## Graham_07 (28 Jan 2008)

Fadó fadó when in college, a classmate & I were working in Scandinavia for a while. On a bus we were commenting on how we were finding the new culture, language etc. A local, apparently eavesdropping, was having a sly laugh/grin at our conversation. We switched to our halting post-primary school Irish. The look of utter confusion on his face remains with me today. He saluted us as if to say, "ye caught me lads, fair play to ye". Have never spoken Irish in public since but would love to be able to manage a basic conversation. One of those things on my list of "things to do".


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## Jock04 (28 Jan 2008)

rabbit said:


> and I have been to every county in Ireland ( most of them on many occassions ) and I have never heard Irish spoken , or seen anyone buying or reading an Irish language newspaper or magazine. Even in the Gaeltacht everyone spoke English ...


 

Certainly not the case in the Gaeltacht I live in (Connemara).
Business in local shops, petrol stations, local traders etc - and 90% of the chat in the pub - is all conducted in Irish unless you're unable to speak it.
Our local supermarket employed a few Slovakian fellas a couple of years ago - and they were promptly booked in for Irish language classes.

Personally, I was happy to improve my very limited grasp of Gaelic language when I moved here - and the locals appreciate the effort!


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## Caveat (28 Jan 2008)

Graham_07 said:


> Fadó fadó when in college, a classmate & I were working in Scandinavia for a while. On a bus we were commenting on how we were finding the new culture, language etc. A local, apparently eavesdropping, was having a sly laugh/grin at our conversation. We switched to our halting post-primary school Irish. The look of utter confusion on his face remains with me today. He saluted us as if to say, "ye caught me lads, fair play to ye". Have never spoken Irish in public since but would love to be able to manage a basic conversation. One of those things on my list of "things to do".


 
Can relate to that.  Have sometimes resorted to my halting primary school Irish whilst on holiday abroad for similar reasons - especially satisfying when the eavesdroppers are English and end up utterly bewildered.  I remember one woman, on hearing our linguistic switch over, muttering to her friend " nah it doesn't sound like any language - it must be some sort of code"

Impressive that she obviously had a working knowledge of every single language in the world then


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## podgerodge (28 Jan 2008)

Dual language on cigarette boxes?  Waste of public money.  TnaG - treat it like Sky Sports. If you have an interest in it subscribe.  Soon see how much of a demand there was.

Irish speakers who, while speaking english in an english spoken conversation amongst english only speakers, insist on throwing in a couple of Irish words.  Extremely annoying.  

Irish students given 10% extra for doing "French" etc through Irish - unbelievable.  

Official Languages Act - bowing to the nutters and then giving them guaranteed employment translating the crap that no-one want to reads in Irish anyway.

Actually, while on a rant, I find people who speak Irish on public transport usually to be annoying gits who, for some reason, have to talk MUCH louder than everyone else.


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## MrMan (29 Jan 2008)

> Actually, while on a rant, I find people who speak Irish on public transport usually to be annoying gits who, for some reason, have to talk MUCH louder than everyone else.



Or do you just listen to them because they are speaking a languge that is alien to you, which further frustrates you. 



> Irish speakers who, while speaking english in an english spoken conversation amongst english only speakers, insist on throwing in a couple of Irish words. Extremely annoying.


Alot of words have their origins from our native tongue, imagine that, we spoke a different language before English was forced onto us.


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## z103 (29 Jan 2008)

When will it end? Should we also have Irish language on ingredients list for food, and other products?


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## ajapale (29 Jan 2008)

or medicines?

This is interesting because the regulatory costs associated with medicine inserts is very high.


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## rabbit (29 Jan 2008)

podgerodge said:


> Dual language on cigarette boxes? Waste of public money. TnaG - treat it like Sky Sports. If you have an interest in it subscribe. Soon see how much of a demand there was.
> 
> Irish speakers who, while speaking english in an english spoken conversation amongst english only speakers, insist on throwing in a couple of Irish words. Extremely annoying.
> 
> ...


 
Great post.  Only one thing I would add though - I have got public transport thousands of times over the years I suppose  ( esp. when I was a student etc ) and never heard anyone speaking Irish on it.    Maybe in gaeltach areas there are a few odd people left speaking Irish though.


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## Jock04 (29 Jan 2008)

rabbit said:


> Maybe in gaeltach areas there are a few odd people left speaking Irish though.


 

Thanks. I'm sure the thousands - sorry, odd few- of people who live in my area will be thrilled to be so marginalised.


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## Rovers1901 (29 Jan 2008)

I find Irish people who give about other Irish people who are able to speak Irish to be annoying gits.


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## MrMan (29 Jan 2008)

> Great post. Only one thing I would add though - I have got public transport thousands of times over the years I suppose ( esp. when I was a student etc ) and never heard anyone speaking Irish on it. Maybe in gaeltach areas there are a few odd people left speaking Irish though.



Great because he agrees with you! are you sure you would even recognise the language given your distain for it?


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