# Why does the world go round and round?



## Lingua (29 Jun 2007)

If somebody can answer the following questions which continue to haunt me, then I will never complain again as long as i live:
1.  Why are Irish people so obsessed with trends and designer labels?
     Why is tradition so despised?
2. Why, on the radio ads for the regulatory commission, do the people  
    sound so stressed?  I feel so sorry for them.
    Or are they hiding something?


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## ajapale (29 Jun 2007)

Moved from Miscellaneous Non-financial Questions to Shooting the Breeze


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## Caveat (29 Jun 2007)

(sigh) I Know...I know.

If you will indulge me for a moment, the criminally underrated XTC summed up the aspirational, hypocritical materialism that you (sort of) refer to in their track 'Respectable street'.  Early 80s, so some of the references are dated but the sentiments are still valid.

BTW, the composer turned out to be bipolar if that's any comfort... 

ahem

_*It's in the order of their hedgerows
it's in the way their curtains open and close
it's in the look they give you down their nose
all part of decency's jigsaw I suppose

Heard the neighbour slam his car door
don't he realise this is respectable street
What d'you think he bought that car for
'cos he realise this is respectable street

Now they talk about abortion
in cosmopolitan proportions to their daughters
as they speak of contraception
And immaculate receptions on their portable
Sony entertainment centres.

Now she speaks about diseases
and which sex position pleases best her old man
Avon lady fills the creases
when she manages to squeeze in past the caravans
that never move from their front gardens.

Sunday church and they look fetching
Saturday night saw him retching over our fence
bang the wall for me to turn down
I can see them with their stern frown
as they dispense the kind of look that says
they're perfect.*_

Now, do you feel better or worse?


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## z108 (29 Jun 2007)

Lingua said:


> 1.  Why are Irish people so obsessed with trends and designer labels?



Womens brains are hard wired to be impressed by men who have money/intelligence/social status/good looks or who have the appearance of social status  and all that.  Hence men work their asses off to wear this kind of crap because it signals something positive about themselves.
Similarly men are attracted to a woman who is well groomed and takes care of herself among other things. My guess is its all  down to competition and evolution has hardwired this behaviour into most of us.
I hate dressing up and am happiest in jeans and a tee shirt but sacrifices must be made and from observing others in bars and clubs elsewhere etc it appears that some kind of uniform is important even if its pretending not to be a uniform.. which is kind of a confusing statement....but the underlying behaviour is uniformity.

If youre interested in human behaviour you could do worse than read a book by Desmond Morris called 'manwatching'.






Lingua said:


> Why is tradition so despised?



I dont get the meaning of the question. Can someone elaborate on this for me? What traditions are despised?


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## ClubMan (30 Jun 2007)

Lingua said:


> 1.  Why are Irish people so obsessed with trends and designer labels?


*Some *_Irish _people surely?


> Why is tradition so despised?


 As above - don't understand the question but bear in mind that what might be considered tradition varies a lot between people so don't make too many assumptions here...


> 2. Why, on the radio ads for the regulatory commission, do the people
> sound so stressed?  I feel so sorry for them.


 I think those ads are gas - even funnier than the _YouTube _copies. The pained, cracking voice of Mr "I don't know what a tracker mortgage is" is hilarious. Maybe I watch too much of the likes of _Extras_, _Peep Show _and _Curb Your Enthusiasm _and, as as result, find other people's pain funny? 


> Or are they hiding something?


 You *do *know that those people are actors now, don't you?


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## DrMoriarty (30 Jun 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Maybe I watch too much of the likes of _Extras_, _Peep Show _and _Curb Your Enthusiasm _and, as as result, find other people's pain funny?


Maybe some CBT could help you to overcome such irrational tendencies, ClubMan?


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## ClubMan (30 Jun 2007)

Who says that _Shadenfreude _is irrational though?


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## Elphaba (30 Jun 2007)

> 1.  Why are Irish people so obsessed with trends and designer labels?
> Why is tradition so despised?
> 2. Why, on the radio ads for the regulatory commission, do the people
> sound so stressed?  I feel so sorry for them.
> Or are they hiding something?



OBVIOUS ANSWERS!
1. Cause we didn't have them in ireland for thousands of years.
2. Because tradition in ireland is usually associated with the catholic church.
3.  People on ads for regoralatory commission, have to talk real fast cause they only have a short time slot.


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## BillK (30 Jun 2007)

Clubman, I am astonished that you made a spelling mistake.


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## ClubMan (30 Jun 2007)

i dont spake _Jerman_.


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## Lingua (7 Jul 2007)

why was i denied access to this until now?


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## PM1234 (8 Jul 2007)

Lingua said:


> why was i denied access to this until now?


 

You must have 50+ posts to post in The Depths. (You originally posted in miscellaneous questions and it was moved)

Can't answer your other questions though apart from disagreeing that Irish people are obsessed with designer goods. It is a global trend rather than particularly Irish. Why I don't know - apart from guessing that people who can afford them use them to show their social status (sometimes if newly acquired) and people who can't afford them (whether by begging, borrowing or stealing) use them to show they are equal. 

Depends what area you mean in relation to despising tradition. People travel more than they did and experience different cultures and traditions. I wouldn't have thought many people despise what they see? 

Regarding your third question it seems the advertising campaign is working


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## Lingua (8 Jul 2007)

My point was this:   Trends and labels do not a culture make.  Irish people in particular have a very strong cultural image worldwide and it is a pity that many (not all) need to hide behind labels.   
Just because we were in the dark for yonks doesnt mean we have to pull out the fairy lights now.


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## ClubMan (9 Jul 2007)

Lingua said:


> Irish people in particular have a very strong cultural image worldwide


What exactly does this mean? 


> and it is a pity that many (not all) need to hide behind labels.


Would this "very strong [Irish] cultural image" not constitute a label too?


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## shanegl (9 Jul 2007)

I can only think of one cultural image of the Irish around the world, and its not a flattering one.


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## Lingua (9 Jul 2007)

Clubman, I find it hard to believe you need a definition.



 If you can get beyond the bog ignorant drunken yob image - which is usually held by those who have never actually known an irish speciman - the underlying charm is there to behold like a pearl at the bottom of the ocean.
When I returned here after many years abroad I discovered:
 - the most polite drivers i ever encountered anywhere in the world
 - teenagers i didnt know actually greeted me in the street
 - a ready wit and a gentleness which i had  long since dismissed as folklore.
These were the good bits.  The nasty surprises are another story.


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## ClubMan (9 Jul 2007)

So you mean stuff that you personally came across on returning to _Ireland _as opposed to "_a very strong cultural image worldwide_"?


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## Deirdra (9 Jul 2007)

Lingua said:


> ...
> When I returned here after many years abroad I discovered:
> - the most polite drivers i ever encountered anywhere in the world
> - teenagers i didnt know actually greeted me in the street
> - a ready wit and a gentleness which i had  long since dismissed as folklore...



Lingua, What are you talking about? Where is this magical place?


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## PM1234 (9 Jul 2007)

Deirdra said:


> Lingua, What are you talking about? Where is this magical place?


 

 

My voice is hoarse from saying hi to everyone as I walk down Grafton St. Sorry I couldn't resist  In fairness some of Lingua's points still apply in local areas.


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## ClubMan (9 Jul 2007)

As opposed to remote areas? Oddly enough anywhere I've lived has always been local.


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## PM1234 (9 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> As opposed to remote areas? .


 
Not necessarily. I meant in places where people feel they belong and/or are active participants in the community. 

However this is only an interpretation of Lingua's last post and s/he may clarify.


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## ClubMan (9 Jul 2007)

So you actually mean "close knit" perhaps?


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## Lingua (10 Jul 2007)

Got it PM1234!

Maybe those who have forgotton that these places actually still exist should get away for the weekend.  
Might change your thinking.....


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

This "_very strong cultural image worldwide_" mustn't be so strong at home so?


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## Lingua (10 Jul 2007)

I meant weekend places in the homeland clubman, wonderful places like where I am living.
And yes, that strong cultural image worldwide is still intact as far as Im aware. Why should it change?


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Lingua said:


> And yes, that strong cultural image worldwide is still intact as far as Im aware.


Which bit in particular? In my travels no foreigner ever mentioned the stuff that you did when asked about _Ireland _and the _Irish_. Just the usual stuff like _NI _troubles, drinking and _U2_ (although not many people actually seem to know that they're _Irish_ and I don't like to disabuse them of their ignorance when that's the case).


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## z109 (10 Jul 2007)

When I respond to the inevitable: "Where you from?"

"You from Iceland?" "Ah, Roy Keane, Man Utd. very good." "Part of England, no?" "Very cold/wet/green." 

At least they get the last one right!

(I have to admit to agreeing with them that I'm from Iceland, as it often saves stuttering and long-winded conversations. Not very friendly, but there you go).

My impression is that the "strong cultural image" is confined to western Europe and Anglo-saxon countries.


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## Sn@kebite (10 Jul 2007)

I think it's safe to say: It seems to me that the world seems to be going downhill rapidly. I think in Ireland (today especially) we have less respect for each other & our communities now, than we did years ago. Would you agree?
I know what Lingua means, although i think it applies more to the _youth_ of Ireland as apposed to the _Irish_ in general?
You know, with the "oh my friend has a better phone than me, i must get a new one, just to be accepted by my peers..."

Sort of like - _self-conscience_ teenagers with a hint of an _Inferiority Complex_.


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## Lingua (10 Jul 2007)

tukituki
Amen


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

yoganmahew said:


> "You from Iceland?"


Or "Holland" in my experience. On visits to _Silicon Valley _people still often ask me "how are things in the UK?" and some people seem to have this obsession about us and our assumed (hostile) relationship with the _Scots_!?! 


Sn@kebite said:


> I think it's safe to say: It seems to me that the world seems to be going downhill rapidly. I think in Ireland (today especially) we have less respect for each other & our communities now, than we did years ago. Would you agree?


Not necessarily.


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Lingua said:


> tukituki
> Amen


?!?!


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## Sn@kebite (10 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Not necessarily.


Again not in a general sense, seeing as i cannot speak for other nations on first hand experience.
But Ireland seems less civilised with the "yob culture". No?
Or maybe you mean certain areas of Irish civilisation are improving while others deteriorate?


ClubMan said:


> ?!?!


I agree!! I did a google job too and got even more confused.


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Sn@kebite said:


> Again not in a general sense, seeing as i cannot speak for other nations on first hand experience.
> But Ireland seems less civilised with the "yob culture". No?
> Or maybe you mean certain areas of Irish civilisation are improving while others deteriorate?


Personally I don't have any first hand evidence for things generally "going downhill rapidly" as you originally suggested. That's not to say that some people are yobbish while others (the vast majority I would be inclined to say) are not. But was it ever otherwise?


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## Sn@kebite (10 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Personally I don't have any first hand evidence for things generally "going downhill rapidly" as you originally suggested. That's not to say that some people are yobbish while others (the vast majority I would be inclined to say) are not. But was it ever otherwise?


Well maybe it's an incorrect assumption of me (you are older than me so maybe you'd know better) but from what i'm told be my elders and see on tv, especially TG4 on those old history programmes, i see an Ireland of _hardship_ in the old days.
You know? In the 40s+ I assume Ireland was poorer than now & harder to aquire SW payments so ppl had to keep looking for work and just didn't have the time to go and smash car windows. Whereas nowadays ppl are better off there's more time on people's hands (especially young people).
I'm not saying Ireland was a better country 40 years ago. It's just that as a result of Ireland become more prosperous, the country is more bored and again i stress the youth seems to give into boredom rather than the older and wiser population.
So what i think Lingue is saying is: the social aspect of our country is changing not necessarily for the worst but the priorities are changing perhaps, in a pointless way. i.e. wondering what we're wearing etc..    Would ppl have worried about clothes then or the more important things like, were am i going to work, howe am i goint tofeed my family etc in the old days?

PS - If you could explain your view of "Not Necessarily" I'd probably understand more. Because that does seem a bit ambiguous.


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Sn@kebite said:


> PS - If you could explain your view of "Not Necessarily" I'd probably understand more. Because that does seem a bit ambiguous.


I meant that I didn't really agree with this:


> I think it's safe to say: It seems to me that the world seems to be going downhill rapidly. I think in Ireland (today especially) we have less respect for each other & our communities now, than we did years ago. Would you agree?


I don't think it's safe or obvious to say anything of the sort.


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## Sn@kebite (10 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I meant that I didn't really agree with this:
> 
> I don't think it's safe or obvious to say anything of the sort.



hmm... You seem reluctant to expand at all. But it's ok at least i had my view on the topic. Maybe you're just busy.
I established that you don't agree with me, but if you don't want to say why you don't, it's ok.


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## z109 (10 Jul 2007)

I also don't agree that the country is going downhill.

I remember the seventies. The country was in the toilet then. Much of central Dublin was a no-go area after six o'clock (on the north-side anyway). Everyone knew everyone elses business. Society was defined from the pulpit. To get a dog license you had to pay someone off. Spousal and child abuse were rife.

Having left in the eighties (when the country was still below the rim) and come back in 2000, I was pleasantly surprised by the change in manners and aspirations.

To my mind, the golden age that is harked back to was long gone by the seventies, and 'society' has improved, at the very least in the fact that it is open about it's problems. The youth of today, with a 35 year mortgage to look forward to, get a hard time when compared to the skivers of the seventies/eighties.


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## ClubMan (10 Jul 2007)

Sn@kebite said:


> hmm... You seem reluctant to expand at all. But it's ok at least i had my view on the topic. Maybe you're just busy.
> I established that you don't agree with me, but if you don't want to say why you don't, it's ok.


What's there to expand on? I don't agree with you that what you hypothesised above is obvious and see no evidence to support the claim.


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## Sn@kebite (10 Jul 2007)

yoganmahew said:


> I also don't agree that the country is going downhill.
> 
> I remember the seventies. The country was in the toilet then. Much of central Dublin was a no-go area after six o'clock (on the north-side anyway). Everyone knew everyone elses business. Society was defined from the pulpit. To get a dog license you had to pay someone off. Spousal and child abuse were rife.
> 
> ...


Thanks _yoganmahew_ that's all i wanted. A simple description of why Ireland hasn't gone downhill. And it makes alot of sense to me now, as i said, my elders woul;d know better than me. But i wanted to know how, so thanks.



			
				yoganmahew said:
			
		

> I was pleasantly surprised by the change in manners and aspirations.


Could you just explain this more please? For my own curiosity.



ClubMan said:


> What's there to expand on? I don't agree with you that what you hypothesised above is obvious and see no evidence to support the claim.


OK "obvious" was the wrong word to use. (although i don't remember using it, did I?)
It's more like an opinion i have rather than a theory. (as i wouldn't call it a phenomenon) And if i had evidence to back it up, it would be more like a fact than an opinion.


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## z108 (3 Aug 2007)

In General I've noticed old people in their 60's/70's etc are negative about nearly everything. Theres a few who arent but... thats been my experience. How old are the people who might compare Ireland as it was in the 1950's/ 60s' etc to how it is now ?


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## z109 (3 Aug 2007)

> "I was pleasantly surprised by the change in manners and aspirations."


Could you just explain this more please? For my own curiosity.

Sorry Sn@kebite, I missed this in your reply a while ago.

What I mean is that in times past there were a lot more gougers about - I don't have to do that, the government should do that for me, I can go on strike any time I like, I am a worker and I deserve it - that sort of thing. People, particularly young people, these days seem more willing to just get on and work hard for a living.

In terms of manners, people minding their own business has to be top of my list. Many will say it's bad that there isn't a sense of community any more, but if community equals vicious gossip, rascism, sectarianism (oh yes, it existed in the south too!), clericalism &c. then you're welcome to it!


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