# Commercial Vehicles & Parking



## Lyndan (26 Aug 2008)

Hi All,

I am an owner of an apartment in Dublin and like most managed development there is a clause in the lease that states 'commercial vehicles' cannot be parked in the carpark.  Our management agent have now decided to enforce this and will be sending warnings and then eventually clamping vehicles of this nature.  

My tenant is an electrician, he drives a van.  There is nowhere else for him to park.  

What can I do...if anything?

Cheers


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## dem_syhp (26 Aug 2008)

We had this discussion recently. I don't think there is much you can do. 

But you could question what constitutes a commercial vehicle (not necessarily going to help your tenent, but may help realise to what level this can be taken). 

For example, what about a company car - without any signage on it? Is that a commercial vehicle? The tax is being paid by a company. How are they going to monitor it? I know that this sounds silly, but if they're going to stop one, will they stop both? A rules a rule?

If it's one of the larger vans to be fair I can understand it from the other owners perspective - very often the spaces are tight enough without one person encroching on anothers space.


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## Lyndan (26 Aug 2008)

I asked the management company and they said that a commercial vehicle is a - mini van, van, truck, trailer or boat.

I understand the clamping if there is obstruction, parking in non parking zones etc. but I think these should apply to commercial and non commercial vehicles.  In this particular case its a small van - the space beside has no issues (he drives a merc which is bigger then the van!).  The complaint came from another owner who says commercial vehicles are eye sores, since when is a carpark a fashion show?!


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## dem_syhp (26 Aug 2008)

Officially a rules a rule.  I don't believe in keeping rules that aren't going to be enforced.  

We have the same rule, and in my opinion it should be changed to no vehicles greater than a particular size.  But that's just my opinion.  If your directors have directed the management agent to enforce this and clamp offending vehicles then I don't think there's much you can do about it.


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## shesells (26 Aug 2008)

We have a rule that all vehicles must fit in a space. Some landlords argue that it restricts their choice of tenants but it is in the safety interests of all owners and residents.

Revenue actually have guidelines about what constitutes a commercial vehicle, it's to do with weight I think.


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## Lyndan (27 Aug 2008)

Im trying to get my hands on a copy of the house rules - I believe that the rules dont state anything about commercial vehicles but its in the lease between owner and management company.  There are also comments about visitors after a certain hour and working from home though..so do we start enforcing them all?!

I have a lease with my tenant and he has a copy of the houserules provided by the Management Agent - neither document mentions anything about commercial vehicles can they legally clamp his car?


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## theengineer (27 Aug 2008)

HI

Just a thought, if some one needs an electrician, plumber, carpenter to do some work, where would this person park ?

What about a taxi would that be allowed?

What about people on call, and need to do an emergency call out at night, and are provided with a small van

Perhaps this managment company is attepting to discriminate !!

Is there a defination of what they consider to be a comercial vehicle provided, 

Get legal advice,


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## shesells (27 Aug 2008)

Lyndan said:


> Im trying to get my hands on a copy of the house rules - I believe that the rules dont state anything about commercial vehicles but its in the lease between owner and management company.  There are also comments about visitors after a certain hour and working from home though..so do we start enforcing them all?!
> 
> I have a lease with my tenant and he has a copy of the houserules provided by the Management Agent - neither document mentions anything about commercial vehicles can they legally clamp his car?



There is generally something in the lease about adherence to house rules. If not but the no commercial vehicles thing is in your lease then you are stuffed. The lease is the legally binding document you signed at purchase, no way out of that one.


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

theengineer said:


> HI
> 
> Just a thought, if some one needs an electrician, plumber, carpenter to do some work, where would this person park ?
> 
> ...



According to the  a commercial vehicle " means a vehicle not designed and constructed solely or primarily for the carriage of persons"  so a taxi would be permitted.  OP's definition that was given to him/her from the company appears to have complied with that.  

I can see our place getting a bit nasty around the car park - it's been building a for a few years.  The issue of commercial vehicles was brought up essentially to deflect from another rule that was being broken by this individual.  

But - it's not discrimination - discrimination follows the 9 rules, race, religion, etc...  It's a rule that the owner signed up to when they purchased the apartment.  @ OP, with respect to your comment on the lease versus the house rules - I don't know.  If it's in the lease it's legally binding.  I haven't looked at what the difference is, and probably should dig out mine to have a look.

Ultimately - if it is the lease, sorry.  But it might be worth checking out informally if there are other reasons for this being raised now - may/may not have anything to do with your tenant.


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## MOB (27 Aug 2008)

If the prohibition is in the lease itself, it is not even open to the Directors of the Management Company to direct the Managing Agent to ignore it.  Any one apartment owner is entitled to insist upon the lease terms being enforced.   

I act for builders and have done some apartment schemes.  I am coming around to the viewpoint that - when drafting an apartment lease -  less is more.  It would have perhaps been better not to have the prohibition on commercial vehicles in the lease itself, but simply to have left this to the discretion of the Management Company in making regulations.


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

- So if there is something in the lease that doesn't make sense, is it possible to change it?  
 - Even with the agreement of all owners?  

I'm asking this hypothetically (wondering what's written in mine and thinking I must look it up)


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## csirl (27 Aug 2008)

If you look at it from the management companies perspective, there is good reason for this rule.

Firstly, they have a certain amount of liability over the vehicles using the carpark. Commerical vehicles would generally be more expensive and maybe carrying goods/tools for which the MC does not want to take responsibility for.

Secondly, it is a residential building with parking for residents. By allowing commercial vehicles to park, the MC would be effectively subsidising other businesses. There is a value to a parking spot.

Thirdly, and maybe most importantly, it is contrary to their planning permission. The PP almost certainly designates the car park as one for residents personal cars and not to be used for commercial vehicles. 

Finally, if residents were allowed to park commerical vehicles, then they could not stop other residents renting out their spaces to companies to park other commericial vehicles. From a legal perspective, someone who parks a vehicle from their work IS effectively "renting" out their space to the company they work for.

Not saying I agree with the position, but there are valid reasons for it.


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## MOB (3 Sep 2008)

dem_syhp said:


> - So if there is something in the lease that doesn't make sense, is it possible to change it?
> - Even with the agreement of all owners?
> 
> I'm asking this hypothetically (wondering what's written in mine and thinking I must look it up)



If you have the agreement of all owners, you can change the terms of all leases.  It would be expensive, but it could be done.  However, if the 'no commercial vehicles' rule were simply a regulation made by the management company (and covered by a term of the lease which simply states that you must 'comply with such regulations as are from time to time imposed by the management company') then the rule could be changed by a simple vote in accordance with the management company rules.  I think this would be more democratic.


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## Bob the slob (8 Sep 2008)

What I dont understand is that if you buy an apartment or whatever, how the management company can tell you the rules of your own place? I just find it really funny.  The same commercial vehicle thing is in my apt complex but its not enforced whatsoever.  It makes no difference.  The people giving out are just being anal.


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## Seagull (8 Sep 2008)

What about someone who has a small van as their personal vehicle? I can imagine a situation where someone has dogs, or does e.g. mountain biking, and finds a van more convenient than a regular car. Is it a commercial vehicle just because it's a van?


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