# Anybody have experience in living in an Insulated Concrete formwork (ICF) House?



## Dinny (3 Aug 2007)

Hi,

I have just received planning in the South East and am looking at starting to build early next year. 

I am very interested in the ICF building system. Wondering if anyone has experience of building and living in an ICF house. What are the pluses and minus of living in the house for example heating, sound proof, flexibility of putting up shelves, curtain poles, kitchen units or are you stuck to certain areas were you can place fixings etc?

Thanks for any feedback


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## polo1 (3 Aug 2007)

I am just about to move into one - this weekend. Already the house is roasting and my heating is on the lowest level - we have UFH with Geothermo. Its 23deg.

With regards to the kitche we had no problem fixing the kitchen to where we wanted it... Curtain poles are only going up now as we speak but I do not think this is an issue. The skirting also we glued to the walls in some rooms and in others screwed them.

If you can wait a couple of weeks I can post back and let you know how I am getting on. If Mr Polo is in the bedroom I have to go into the hall to call him, without doors so so far so good.


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## Dinny (3 Aug 2007)

Polo1 

That would be great thanks. 

How did you finish the external of your house?


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## sas (3 Aug 2007)

polo1 said:


> If Mr Polo is in the bedroom I have to go into the hall to call him, without doors so so far so good.


 
Keep in mind that not all ICF solutions include internal walls. The ICF is literally for the perimeter wall of the house. I was looking at ICF at 1 point and was on site with 3 companies. 2 were perimeter wall only. 

In a nutshell, sound proofing internally isn't necessarily a feature of ICF.


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## sas (3 Aug 2007)

Some relevant threads:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=49453
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=35158


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## Sue Ellen (3 Aug 2007)

sas said:


> Some relevant threads:
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=49453
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=35158


 
Some others here also.


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## polo1 (6 Aug 2007)

We used arcrylic render on it.


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## Dinny (6 Aug 2007)

Thanks for the feed back.

Seems to be a lot of posts on the build and reasons for and against using ICF. 

I am looking for feed back from people who have experience of living in an ICF property or have heard from people who have. 

It would be an expensive mistake if went with the wrong build type but would't like to be put of by people who are afraid of new methods


Thanks

Dinny


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## sas (6 Aug 2007)

Dinny said:


> I am looking for feed back from people who have experience of living in an ICF property or have heard from people who have.


 
I was all set to go with ICF. I had met a recommended builder and really liked him. He took me to see his own house so I could see what the outside felt like once rendered and to get a look at the overall house.

All was going really well until I asked how they had gotten on during the hot spell last summer. They said they just opened the windows and doors and allowed the breeze to cool the house. And with that ICF was gone...

A build system should try to maintain the same internal temperature regardless of whether you have the sahara or 20 feet of snow outside. ICF appears to be very good in winter, but not so good in summer. This house in particular was not designed to take advantage of solar gain so I don't believe it was poor design that caused this overheating issue.

I had heard about this issue before and to hear it from the person trying to get my business was the deal breaker. Also, there is a pretty damning thread on acrylic renders (which I believe are the recommended renders for ICF) here that came up recently. 

If you do opt for ICF, I'd recommend you keep it to onces with IAB or BBA certification. Take a read of the certs too. I had one ICF company push the fact that they had certification which looked good. When I read the cert though it only certified the system when used as the inner leaf of a 2 leaf cavity wall, not as a single leaf rendered wall which is how that companies builds it here.

I don't fall into the category of "afraid of new systems" I feel because I'm going the poroton route.

Good luck, 

SAS


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## Dinny (8 Aug 2007)

SAS,

Thanks for the honest reply. I am keen on try to be as heat efficient as possible. The house will be over 3000ft and I would prefer to spend some time now on getting the right method of build that will be energy efficient in the long run as the cost of heating a house will only get more expensive. 

Regards,

Dinny


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## ninsaga (8 Aug 2007)

Two of the best ICF systems I came across were Euromac & Integrespec. The window/door recess details were quite good compared to others. Other ICF co's tend to use timber supports around the reveals. I was comcered with dampness at these areas. Added to the fact that these systems require acrylic rendering. Now acrylic rendering is fine - if it is done correctly. 
What stopped me from using ICF was due to the lack of experienced installers.
Integrespec had no one doing this is Cork. Euromac gave me details on a German installer who wanted to charge me about 50% extra over any other type of build. 
I have since learned more about one of the major shortfalls ie such as what SAS has stated with regard to Thermal Mass.
ninsaga


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## tipperary (8 Aug 2007)

At the planning stage and thinking of using ICF.  Hadn't heard about the issue of overheating during hot weather.  Just wondering would this also be an issue with timber frame construction?


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## sydthebeat (9 Aug 2007)

overheating calculations can be worked out during a preliminary Building Energy Rating calculations.... if you are really worried (and personally i think it should be dealt with during the design) then source out someone who does the BER certs and engage them to do a preliminary cert....

It is incorrect to assume that a large thremal mass is a bad thing, if the dwelling is designed with good passive heating / ventilation features then this should not be a worry....


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## Dinny (14 Oct 2007)

Polo1,

Just checking to see how the ICF is working out for you?


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## polo1 (15 Oct 2007)

Hi Dinny

Well we moved in (eventually) in August and its going very well thank you. They house is extremely warm particulary in the Kitchen area but this is complimented by the fact that we have 25mtrs squared of glass in our dining area.. We have Geothermo UF heating also and we have this on at the moment at the lowest possible setting and to me the house is nice and warm.  

We had the guy up who installed the UFH and he did temp checks all over the house and he says that we are not even loosing 1deg of temperature through the windows or anywhere else in the house so he was really surprised by this and says its the first time he has seen that. ie the temp going into the house is the same all over and we are not loosing anything. We installed alu clad windows btw.

I suppose the other posts in here about the house overheating in summer could be a problem but to be honest I would rather have constant heat than trying to heat a house but that is me personally. (I am a cold creature). We have had to open the windows a couple of nights while sleeping also cause of the heat but I dont see this as an issue.

Out electric bill was very small last month but dont think they did a reading so cannot give you an accurate figure (it was 60 for 2months - 3400sq ft house). The Plumber said that we should run the pump of UFH on very little based on the checks he has done so far but I guess the proof will be in the next couple of months.

if you have any specific questions let me know and I will try to answer.


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## sas (15 Oct 2007)

Out of curiousity which ICF product did you go with e.g. Reward, Euromac, Nudura etc..

What was the declared u-value for the wall?


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## polo1 (15 Oct 2007)

We used Nudura.
U value is approx 0.22. The thermal conductivity value is 0.037Wm K


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## Dinny (16 Oct 2007)

Polo,

Thanks for the update. Will touch base with you in cold December to see how the heating is going if that is OK.

Did you use a normal roofing system or one which was spplied by your ICF guys. 

I am leaning towards the direction of ICF for our new build.

Thanks again 

Dinny


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## polo1 (17 Oct 2007)

We have "regular" joist type roof with natural tegral truetone (sorry about the spelling) slates.  We also put ply on the roof before we slated it and used rockwool insulation which I know helps..


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## Tulach (17 Oct 2007)

Polo1, I was all set to go ICF but the external render caused me some concern, in relation to the qulaity of finish and cost. I looked at M2 which use a single panel of 170mm to 300mm of insulation with 35 mm sprayed on concrete on either side but I just wasn't convinced by it. I have asked the Nudura builder in Loais for a quote. Can you shed give any costs i.e. how much the external walls cost and how much the plastering cost? By pm if you prefer.

Thanks


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## polo1 (17 Oct 2007)

The single coat plaster render would not be recommended at this moment as there has being some cracking with it on ICF walling even though it has BS certification for such. This is being used sucessfully on the thermo X type walls ie poured mass concrete or precast sections with the insulation glued and nailed to it and the monocresh finish sprayed on it. 

The acrylic three coat plaster system with the bedded mesh in the base coats and the top coat can be got with a non maintenance colour and is proved to work with ICF and gives a great finish and is water resistant. This is what we used and it looks great.

The cost can vary with Acrylic as the some of the colours (bright blues) cost a lot more. The m2 cost installed for Acrylic is around the EUR45 to EUR50 depending on qty, location etc.. We had about 235sq mtrs and it cost just under 45/€sq/mtr in Dub.

A recommended plastering company the does a lot of acrylic work is Powerplaz and based in the North. They also do the single coat systems but still recommend the acrylic with the ICF. This is whom we used

The material cost for Nudura and concrete is approx EUR75 /mtr sq plus install cost. This can vary depending on where you are and how much you pay for concrete.

Hope this helps


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## polo1 (17 Oct 2007)

Dinny said:


> Polo,
> 
> Thanks for the update. Will touch base with you in cold December to see how the heating is going if that is OK.
> 
> ...


 
No problem -I will be monitoring it in any case.


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## sas (17 Oct 2007)

polo1 said:


> A recommended plastering company the does a lot of acrylic work is Powerplaz and based in the North.


 
To add an additional voice, I saw a nudura ICF house [broken link removed] did and the finish was exceptional.

1 of the pluses of using them I believe is that they spend alot of time covering windows etc before they start any plastering. Then also clean it all off again at the end.


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## Startup (30 Oct 2007)

Here's a company worth checking out that are doing high quality builds from a Canadian ICF manufacturer called Quadlock. I have been in some of the houses that they have completed and have been very impressed. I know that they have built a number of them that have had machine rendered finishes. I believe they use Powerplas to do this work.
[broken link removed]


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## ninsaga (5 Nov 2007)

Startup said:


> Here's a company worth checking out that are doing high quality builds from a Canadian ICF manufacturer called Quadlock. I have been in some of the houses that they have completed and have been very impressed. I know that they have built a number of them that have had machine rendered finishes. I believe they use Powerplas to do this work.
> [broken link removed]



Are you associated with this company?


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## Startup (8 Nov 2007)

Hi Ninsaga
I know the owners, but I don't work for them. I've seen some of the houses they have built so I'm familair with the finished product. I've built my own house and I'm qualified as a BER assessor, so I'd like to think I know good work when i see it!!


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## Dee_2006 (16 Nov 2007)

Hi,

I know it's difficult to give an accurate answer to this but I just got a price for an ICF home of €80,000 with interior block. Is this good? House size is 3000 sq ft. 

Thanks,

Dee


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## Dinny (16 Nov 2007)

Dee,
i am only starting on prices now and havent got any back yet
Is this price supply of the formwork or supply and errect with concrete

regards

dinny


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## Dee_2006 (19 Nov 2007)

Hi Dinny,

it's the whole thing except plastering. The savings on heating are there....I know that but at the same time it seems so much more expensive than going with block. Though I believe it's much easier for work to be done on an ICF house by plumbers, electricians etc. 

Dee


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