# Pondering the "How come" ..



## thedaras (25 Jan 2011)

How come its OK to say to someone;

Your getting too thin..but not OK to say ,your getting too fat?

How come its Ok to say to someone GOD you are tall,but not My GOD you are small?

How come its Ok to say ,look at that rich swine in his merc but not OK to say look at that poor person in his Lada?( fill in your own type of car)see its not really OK!

How come its Ok to say ,all the snobs in foxrock/Blackrock, but not say all the skangers in Clondalkin/limerick wherever.(fill in your own area) see its really not OK.

How come is Ok to say that someone is a D4 head with a posh accent yet not Ok to say ,they are a skanger with a common accent?

OK some of them are not correct but you get the idea?
Its obviously not Ok but seems to be accepted in a lot of cases.
Im wondering how many other "How comes" there are out there,and if anyone else has any they can add .
I wonder why someone can go on radio and annihilate those who have better cars/houses/holidays/income etc and yet if the shoe were on the other foot....


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## shopgirl (25 Jan 2011)

I can't think of any "How comes" but speaking as a small person, people regularly point out to me that I'm small! maybe I'm hanging around with the wrong kind of people.


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## rustbucket (26 Jan 2011)

shopgirl said:


> I can't think of any "How comes" but speaking as a small person, people regularly point out to me that I'm small! maybe I'm hanging around with the wrong kind of people.


 
Im guessing they are all taller than you


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

shopgirl said:


> I can't think of any "How comes" but speaking as a small person, people regularly point out to me that I'm small!


 
Me too. My husband is very tall, and people are more likely to comment on my smallness than his tallness.


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## micmclo (26 Jan 2011)

thedaras said:


> Your getting too thin..but not OK to say ,your getting too fat?



Every Irish mammy has told her son, god you're wasting away, sit down now and I'll get you a dinner 
Not so much if you're too fat



thedaras said:


> How come its Ok to say ,all the snobs in foxrock/Blackrock, but not say all the skangers in Clondalkin/limerick wherever.(fill in your own area) see its really not OK.



Skobes in Limerick, not skangers


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## Sol28 (26 Jan 2011)

As a tall person I cant tell you how many times I have been asked, in a supermarket, "You're tall - can you get that product for me up there?". 

I want to respond by "Youre small - can you get that product for me down there?"


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

Sol28 said:


> I want to respond by "Youre small - can you get that product for me down there?"


 
When I worked in a supermarket I used to get a lot of 'youve small hands - will you reach into this disgusting filthy blocked small area and fish out whatevers blocking it?'


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## fizzelina (26 Jan 2011)

Speaking of things you can say to people a lady in work announced her pregnancy and two other colleagues when she told them individually asked her "oh was it planned or a surprise" I was in a total state of shock someone would ask that and when I told them that they just didn't _get _that it was an inappropriate question..... Some people just don't know what is ok or not to say.
Just to add - the two who asked that were by no means close to the pregnant lady or very friendly, just colleagues. The pregnant lady is in her 30's not that it should matter.


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> ...when I told them that they just didn't _get _that it was an inappropriate question


 
Why is this an inappropriate question? Ive never actually asked it but Im missing something here!!


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## callybags (26 Jan 2011)

I'll bet neither of them could explain the offside rule either.


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## fizzelina (26 Jan 2011)

what was she going to reply _No it's a big surprise / accident and my partner is not impressed and I'm gutted and cried lots but getting used to it now thanks for asking......_
I think a Congratulations and all the best with the pregnancy is the better response to a colleague announcing a pregnancy. 
Maybe you're not missing something truthseeker, maybe I'm the one who's missing that it's actually a normal question?? Curious to see what others think??


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> what was she going to reply _No it's a big surprise / accident and my partner is not impressed and I'm gutted and cried lots but getting used to it now thanks for asking......_
> I think a Congratulations and all the best with the pregnancy is the better response to a colleague announcing a pregnancy.
> Maybe you're not missing something truthseeker, maybe I'm the one who's missing that it's actually a normal question?? Curious to see what others think??


 
hmmm...hadnt really looked at it that way, was more thinking along the lines that if someone was planning it theyd be extra delighted.

Its bizarre (maybe) but I would have just thought in this day and age that if people didnt want to be pregnant they either wouldnt get pregnant in the first place by using one of a variety of contraceptives or they would terminate the pregnancy in early stages and never announce it in work. If theyre at the point of announcing it Id assume they were happy with the situation - planned or not.

Maybe Im just not sensitive to these things!!!


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## Vanilla (26 Jan 2011)

Clearly, Truthseeker, you are not reading enough bad fiction ( where the heroine has a tumble with an international playboy, then finds herself unexpectedly pregnant due to his biology defying virility- but when she finally has to confess her bottom lip, which by the way is full and lucious, trembles in part fear, part lust).

Or you're not hanging around with teenagers. One of those.


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Clearly, Truthseeker, you are not reading enough bad fiction ( where the heroine has a tumble with an international playboy, then finds herself unexpectedly pregnant due to his biology defying virility- but when she finally has to confess her bottom lip, which by the way is full and lucious, trembles in part fear, part lust).
> 
> Or you're not hanging around with teenagers. One of those.


 
Ah - not doing either!!

Now in context - Fizzelina did say the woman was in her 30s - hence me just assuming my above post.

If a teenager came into work and announced they were pregnant Id never even consider it was planned so definitely wouldnt ask!!


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## liaconn (26 Jan 2011)

Anyway, to get  back to the point -

I used to be very very skinny (sigh) and got fed up of people commenting openly on how thin I was. I couldn't understand how they didn't realise that I felt just as sensitive about that as a fat person would about being overweight.


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## Purple (26 Jan 2011)

Its seems that inverted snobbery, sexism and even racism is ok.

It’s ok to look down on/make fun of the well off.
Sexism is rampant in advertising but it’s ok because men are on the receiving end (the current radio ad for the holiday world exhibition it a good example; if the woman was on the receiving end there'd be murder).

Basically all the old biases and bigotry is ok as long as it is not directed against the old targets.


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## DB74 (26 Jan 2011)

When my wife was pregnant with our second child someone asked if we had been trying long

It was an awkward silence when I replied "about 2 minutes"


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## DB74 (26 Jan 2011)

Purple said:


> Its seems that inverted snobbery, sexism and even racism is ok.
> 
> It’s ok to look down on/make fun of the well off.
> Sexism is rampant in advertising but it’s ok because men are on the receiving end (the current radio ad for the holiday world exhibition it a good example; if the woman was on the receiving end there'd be murder).
> ...


 

I believe it's called "positive discrimination" - God how I hate that phrase

Just another way of saying "positive racism" or "positive sexism"


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## thedaras (26 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> When my wife was pregnant with our second child someone asked if we had been trying long
> 
> It was an awkward silence when I replied "about 2 minutes"



2 MINUTES!


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## PetrolHead (26 Jan 2011)

fizzelina said:


> what was she going to reply _No it's a big surprise / accident and my partner is not impressed and I'm gutted and cried lots but getting used to it now thanks for asking......_




I used to know a couple where the wife was adamant that she must have been unknowingly taken in the night to cause her third pregnancy.... and would tell anyone and everyone...!!!


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## DeeFox (26 Jan 2011)

I agree that it is totally inappropriate to ask someone if baby was planned or a surprise.  I'm pregnant, it wasn't planned and I've been asked this a few times.  What am i meant to say?  "No, we're not ready to have a child but we don't have much choice so we're going to have it and hopefully everything will fall into place..."

While I'm on the subject how come it is seen as okay to say to a pregnant woman "God, you're MASSIVE, you're clearly eating for two, are you sure you're not having twins, ha ha ha..."  Can people (if they feel the need to make a personal comment)not just say "you look well" or "pregnancy suits you", etc.

Another "how come" issue that has been bothering me lately is how come it is okay to say to someone who has one or two sons already "are you going for a girl?"  This is my first baby so I'm not in that position but my sister in law was pregnant with her third after two boys and I was amazed at the number of people who thought it was okay to tell her that she must really want a girl.  She had a third boy as it turned out and then people would say things like "ah sure, you can try again".


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

Interesting.

On a slightly different note, Im sick to death of people asking me when Im going to start having children since I married 18 months ago. Im not interested in having children, and if I was - how do they know that Im not in an awful state about not being able to conceive or something? 
If I drive to a social occasion and dont drink people nudge nudge wink wink me and look pointedly at my stomach, if I gain so much as a lb people look pointedly at my stomach, if I mention that I have a headache, an upset stomach, had food poisoning, etc....people smile and ask me if im SURE its only a headache, food poisoning etc....

And best of all - when I tell people I dont want to have children, some of them patronise me and say things like 'you just havent reached that phase yet, all women want children!' or 'go on out of that, you dont mean that!!'.


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## Betsy Og (26 Jan 2011)

Pregnancy - default setting is not to draw attention until 100% sure, then say congrats, maybe when are you due or something harmless like that. Whether its planned or not is way too personal a question. Speculating on what gender they must be hoping for is also naff. On the recently married slagging, we used to do a bit of it (harmless intent) but I then stopped, and thats the new default. Turns out those being slagged now have kids (phew!).

Slagging off rich people: seen as ok due to Irish begrudgery, zero sum game theorists - if they have it they must have taken it off you, closet communists - all property is theft. Some rich people are arrogant/obnoxious and their conspicous consumption and displays of wealth and air of superiority are genuine causes for ire - or maybe thats the begrudger/inferiorty complex in me talking   In general they are seen as people who can take it, they've chosen to put themselves in that position, and at the end of the day people are a bit cowardly and know that a lynch mob of well heeled folk are unlikely to lay siege to their premises - rightly assuming they'd have better things to be doing.


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## Caveat (26 Jan 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Interesting.
> 
> On a slightly different note, Im sick to death of people asking me when Im going to start having children since I married 18 months ago. Im not interested in having children, and if I was - how do they know that Im not in an awful state about not being able to conceive or something?
> If I drive to a social occasion and dont drink people nudge nudge wink wink me and look pointedly at my stomach, if I gain so much as a lb people look pointedly at my stomach, if I mention that I have a headache, an upset stomach, had food poisoning, etc....people smile and ask me if im SURE its only a headache, food poisoning etc....
> ...


 
We have dealt with the same for years. 

I fairly shut one of them up who actually had the neck to bluntly ask
"Why don't you have children?"

I responded "We have decided not to have any - what about you - why *did* you have children?"

When she laughed nervously and said she just wanted to I told her that I didn't think it was a very mature attitude for what should be a very serious decision.

She didn't like it.


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## truthseeker (26 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> She didn't like it.


 
I like it Caveat!! I have used a similar line myself occasionally, but never gotten any kind of relevant answer.


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## Purple (26 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> We have dealt with the same for years.
> 
> I fairly shut one of them up who actually had the neck to bluntly ask
> "Why don't you have children?"
> ...



Have you had the "ah, that's a pity" answer?


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## daithi (26 Jan 2011)

A friend of the family once asked a large(ish) lady when was she due, to be told very icily that she wasn't pregnant-his policy now is to never assume until he can see them being wheeled into a delivery suite........


daithi


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## Sue Ellen (26 Jan 2011)

When a couple are 'walking out together' the questions are, when are you (a) moving in together (b) getting engaged (c) getting married.

When they get married the questions are (a) when are you having a child (b) that child must be lonely being the only one so when are you having a second and (c) Ah, two boys or maybe two girls sure maybe you could try again 

and the answer to all of the above is



Mind your own business


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## Betsy Og (27 Jan 2011)

Sue Ellen said:


> When a couple are 'walking out together'


 
I suppose its fair to say that that great phrase "Doing a line" has now vanished from our coke saturated land.......


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## Caveat (27 Jan 2011)

Purple said:


> Have you had the "ah, that's a pity" answer?


 
Don't think so, but I think I'd need to spice up my responses if faced with that one.

Maybe just sneeze all over their faces or something, that should shut them up.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> Don't think so, but I think I'd need to spice up my responses if faced with that one.


 
Sometimes I just say 'Are you mad? Children? I didnt get up til 11am this morning, why would I give that up?'. That usually shuts them up as they havent had a lie in since prior to having children and they are in a permanent semi stupor from the lack of sleep.


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## DB74 (27 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> Maybe just sneeze all over their faces or something, that should shut them up.


 
Believe me, if they have kids, a sneeze in the face is NOTHING.

I look forward to the day when all I have is a sneeze in the face.


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## truthseeker (27 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> I look forward to the day when all I have is a sneeze in the face.


 
Absolutely the best post Ive read in ages - rolling around laughing here!!


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## Vanilla (27 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> Believe me, if they have kids, a sneeze in the face is NOTHING.
> 
> I look forward to the day when all I have is a sneeze in the face.



LOL. so, so true. Spoken as someone who has been up all last night being vomited on.


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## Caveat (27 Jan 2011)

I'm only glad I picked the most polite option that came to mind...


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## Vanilla (27 Jan 2011)

Caveat said:


> I'm only glad I picked the most polite option that came to mind...



Any bodily fluid that a child can biologically secrete, will, at some point, be deposited on their parents. And far too frequently.


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## Latrade (27 Jan 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Any bodily fluid that a child can biologically secrete, will, at some point, be deposited on their parents. And far too frequently.


 
And it's surprising at how quickly you cease to care that these are now part of your general attire.




truthseeker said:


> That usually shuts them up as they havent had a lie in since prior to having children and they are in a permanent semi stupor from the lack of sleep.


 
True...all too true, but only from my perspective it's a very small sacrifice for being a parent. 

Having said that, I don't agree with the parent secret society code whereby you get told how great everything is until your first comes along and it's at that point people educate you on just how bleedin hard it is. yeah bit late now for this information.


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## Purple (27 Jan 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Any bodily fluid that a child can biologically secrete, will, at some point, be deposited on their parents. And far too frequently.



You can judge the height of a persons children by the snot marks on their trousers.


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## Bronte (28 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> I look forward to the day when all I have is a sneeze in the face.


 
There are no economic constrains on how much toilet roll people can use in our house but despite this the youngest used one single solitary piece of toilet roll to clean her bum today. In addition said piece was scrunched up. Then while cleaning her and all advice not to touch anything just had to put hand to hair..... 

But not as bad as the time a sibling put hand in nappy to taste it.... that was definitely worse.....  Don't mind vomit in comparison.


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## Complainer (28 Jan 2011)

DB74 said:


> I believe it's called "positive discrimination" - God how I hate that phrase


Pity that you haven't bothered to find out what it means before deciding that you hate it, because you clearly don't understand it.


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## Latrade (28 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> Pity that you haven't bothered to find out what it means before deciding that you hate it, because you clearly don't understand it.


 
Well I do know about it and I hate the phrase and the concept. First, the phrase is bad on the basis that it defends discrimination, or at least portrays that a preference of a gender, race or possibly health over someone of the same experience and education is in some way levelling the playing field. It's not, it's just creating and hiding a very specific form of discrimination among a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men.

If there is to be true equality then it has to be on the basis of "blindness". There is no doubt that there has been significant (and still is) inequality, but you cannot fast-track this by introducing a different form of discrimination.

So the term is rubbish and the concept is rubbish.


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## Complainer (28 Jan 2011)

So, just to explore this further, an employer that provides some screen reading software for an employee with a vision impairment is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'. 

An employer who agrees to waive requirements for formal education when interviewing a Traveller is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'.

Have I understood you correctly?


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## PetrolHead (28 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> Pity that you haven't bothered to find out what it means before deciding that you hate it, because you clearly don't understand it.




'Positive discrimination' is like a 'merciful beating'.... doing something for the right reasons doesn't make the act right in and of itself. 

Positive discrimination has also led to a social situation whereby mainstream TV commercials openly brand the white, middle class, middle aged male as incompetent, unintelligent and incapable of survival without assistance and mainstream comedy (Jo Brand, Jenny Eclair - I'm looking at you) openly attacks men in the same way as was derided as old fashioned (pre-alternative - Jim Davidson etc) and out dated comedy. 

Not to mention the Sky Sports debacle that's currently unfolding. Two long standing broadcasters loosing their jobs for what were, to be quite frank, rather innocuous comments. 

Imaging the situation is reversed and Sue Barker was caught saying something off-air to Annabel Croft about Sampras' thighs during Wimbledon... I can't see there being the same reaction that Keys and Gray have received.......


Complainer - your two examples are incongruous... providing accessibility is not positive discrimination.


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## Complainer (28 Jan 2011)

PetrolHead said:


> Positive discrimination has also led to a social situation whereby mainstream TV commercials openly brand the white, middle class, middle aged male as incompetent, unintelligent and incapable of survival without assistance and mainstream comedy (Jo Brand, Jenny Eclair - I'm looking at you) openly attacks men in the same way as was derided as old fashioned (pre-alternative - Jim Davidson etc) and out dated comedy.


How do you conclude that positive discrimination has led to these social situations?


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## PetrolHead (28 Jan 2011)

Positive discrimination makes inequality palatable. It allows one group to act in a way that, if the standings were reversed, would be seen as unacceptable whatever the context (workplace / media / etc). 

Go back to OP's original list... The unacceptable questions or statements are all attached to what is construed as either a pejorative term or subjugated section of society, whereas those questions or statements (however personal in their nature) on the flipside are seen as ok. 

Complainer.... which of these situations is seen as socially acceptable (and be honest)... 

A Nigerian saying to a pastey looking Irishman "look how pale you are... I bet you'd nearly glow in the dark..."

An Irishman saying to a black Nigerian "look how dark you are... I bet at night I'd only see your teeth and eyeballs..."


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## DB74 (28 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> An employer who agrees to waive requirements for formal education when interviewing a Traveller is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'.


 
I'm not sure how this is discriminating against anybody so you'll have to clarify this for me




Complainer said:


> An employer who agrees to waive requirements for formal education when interviewing a Traveller is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'.


 
Again not sure what "caucasian men" has anything to do with it but this is what I would consider an example of positive discrimination. Why should a Traveller (or anyone else) not be subject to the same criteria for obtaining a job as any other applicant.


Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand the phrase? Could you maybe post a link to what you consider an acceptable definition?


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## Complainer (28 Jan 2011)

My first reaction to the OPs list was that the statements aren't socially acceptable in any public situation, from anyone, to anyone.


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## DB74 (28 Jan 2011)

My post wasn't in response to the OP


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## PetrolHead (28 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> My first reaction to the OPs list was that the statements aren't socially acceptable in any public situation, from anyone, to anyone.



That's wrong... 

That's your opinion... not society's.



DB74 - I think they're answering me.


.


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## Latrade (28 Jan 2011)

Complainer said:


> So, just to explore this further, an employer that provides some screen reading software for an employee with a vision impairment is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'.
> 
> An employer who agrees to waive requirements for formal education when interviewing a Traveller is 'discriminating against a class of people who have no remit and have no ability to do anything about it: caucasian men'.
> 
> Have I understood you correctly?


 
Nope you've just demonstrated that you don't understand what "positive discrimination" actually is. 

The first is a perfect example of how equality should and does work and has nothing to do with positive discrimination.

The second is also fine, but only if the the same formal education requirements are also removed for all applicants who can demonstrate an ability to do the work applied for and that the work itself does not require formal education (I suppose you would be ok if the requirements to have a formal education to be a dentist or doctor were removed for the travelling community?)

So while DB74 may indeed be worthy of pity, you may need to just check on the differences between equality and positive discrimination. Just to recap, positive discrimination (or the watered down "affermitive action") is a process whereby specific sets of the population on the basis of gender, race, etc are openly selected are over other candidates of equal capabilities and education but of a different gender and race, i.e. caucasian men would not be selected on the specific basis that they are white and/or male. 

It has nothing to do with adapting recruitement processes to take account of disabilities.


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