# Scottish Referendum



## Betsy Og (12 Sep 2014)

While on one level it has nothing to do with us, I do still find it very interesting and think there may be knock-on effects here.

Overall the nationalist in me says Yes to an independent Scotland (probably Scottish republic in due course). Its a county I like, have been a good few times - ok I'm more attracted to lochs, glens, tartan, accents .."ancient celtic links" etc than high rise east end Glasgow slums, so my interest is admittedly superficial.

Ignoring the heart and gonig solely with the brain, other than having power locally and not in far flung London, I cant imagine it makes great sense. Economically it seems a shaky proposition, in the pound, not in the pound, with the Bank of England or with no central bank. Joining the EU but maybe not in the Euro. If in the Euro then a hassle with its main trading partner England.

In an Irish context I think it would be a blow to unionism/loyalism and while that, in a general sense, appeals to me, I dont really want to think of any fallout, so from that point of view I'd be nearly as well pleased if status quo prevailed on both sides of the water. On an economic level there is the risk they will steal our clothes with low tax rates and attractiveness to FDI.

Its definitely a big leap of faith for the Scots, I dont doubt their resourcefullness as a people to get it right in the long run (maybe ROI, for all its failings, is a template for life after the union), but there's an awful lot of uncertainty being ladled onto fairly tenuous benefits.

Still, roll the dice, vote Yes, twill be great craic.....


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## Delboy (12 Sep 2014)

I think it'll be a No in the end by 6 or 7% points, but there'll be so many concessions made  by Westminister as a result of a close run result, that it'll spell the beginning of the end for Scotland staying in the Union in any case.
And what's good for the goose in Scotland, will be roared for by the boyo's up the road from here


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## Leper (13 Sep 2014)

. . . and I just heard that the Orange Order is going to march in Edinburgh today in support a "No Vote" . . . just what the "No Vote" politicians needed . . . 

The result will be close, probably too close.


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## Duke of Marmalade (16 Sep 2014)

In Belfast last week.  Both sides flying Scottish flags.  Could NI join Scotland and solve the flags issue?


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## callybags (17 Sep 2014)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> In Belfast last week. Both sides flying Scottish flags.* Could NI join Scotland* and solve the flags issue?


 
They'd have to build a big bridge, and they're not very good at that up there.


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## DB74 (18 Sep 2014)

I don't see the currency issue as being a major thing but maybe I'm being naive. Their economy will be so tied to England for the foreseeable future that it makes sense to retain the pound. The monetary policy of the Central Bank of England will only have a big effect if one country is outperforming the other economically on a significant level, which is unlikely to happen due to historical and geographical ties.


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## Delboy (18 Sep 2014)

Looks like the older vote will swing it for the NO's. Putting their pensions ahead of all else...or rather a 'fear' of some sort of reduction to their pensions.

Quiet sad


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## Leper (18 Sep 2014)

Delboy said:


> Looks like the older vote will swing it for the NO's. Putting their pensions ahead of all else...or rather a 'fear' of some sort of reduction to their pensions.
> 
> Quiet sad



'tell ya' one thing, if I were a pensioner and Scottish and was informed that my pension would be less on a Yes Vote, I'd vote an emphatic 'No'

Quite a No Brainer, I think.


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## The_Banker (18 Sep 2014)

In a cunning move the Scottish Nationalists had the age of voting in referendums reduced from 18 to 16 a few years back just in case there was ever a referendum for Independence..

That might pay dividends now and cancel out the older voters who may have pension worries.


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## Delboy (18 Sep 2014)

Leper said:


> 'tell ya' one thing, if I were a pensioner and Scottish and was informed that my pension would be less on a Yes Vote, I'd vote an emphatic 'No'
> 
> Quite a No Brainer, I think.



Depends on the way your brain works I suppose....sometimes money's not everything


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## Leper (19 Sep 2014)

Delboy said:


> Depends on the way your brain works I suppose....sometimes money's not everything



Nice post there Delboy!  That's why this Forum is called Askaboutmoney not Askabout-Everything-but-Money.  

Just heard about the result in Scotland ('No' Wins) and even the most staunch GB'er (Gibber for short!) must concede that very little will be the same again in Scotland or indeed the UK and not a bullet was fired. (We could learn from the Scots).


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## Ceist Beag (19 Sep 2014)

I must say I was very impressed with how this referendum engaged so many in Scotland (over 85% turnout is hugely impressive) and regardless of which side you were on, as Leper said, things will never be the same again for the UK. I don't think there is anything sad about people voting No for economic reasons Delboy, I think it it too simplistic though to say that the only reason Scotland voted no is because pensioners put their pensions ahead of anything else. I think on the whole Scotland did quite well out of this referendum but the UK has been damaged, not strengthened as a result (imho).


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## Delboy (19 Sep 2014)

Leper said:


> Nice post there Delboy!  That's why this Forum is called Askaboutmoney not Askabout-Everything-but-Money.
> 
> Just heard about the result in Scotland ('No' Wins) and even the most staunch GB'er (Gibber for short!) must concede that very little will be the same again in Scotland or indeed the UK and not a bullet was fired. (We could learn from the Scots).



I think you'll find this section is called 'Shooting the Breeze'! Not 'Informal musings on the societal impact of money'


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## Delboy (19 Sep 2014)

Ceist Beag said:


> I must say I was very impressed with how this referendum engaged so many in Scotland (over 85% turnout is hugely impressive) and regardless of which side you were on, as Leper said, things will never be the same again for the UK. I don't think there is anything sad about people voting No for economic reasons Delboy, I think it it too simplistic though to say that the only reason Scotland voted no is because pensioners put their pensions ahead of anything else. I think on the whole Scotland did quite well out of this referendum but the UK has been damaged, not strengthened as a result (imho).



I don't think it was all down exclusively to Pensioners, but they played a big part by all accounts. 
As forecast, a lot of No's stayed silent and only spoke out when it mattered most- at the ballot box.

Not sure what this means for the UK and whether it is damaged. As a whole, maybe yes. But we may see stronger regions even in the UK in the future as a result of this- tax powers for the North East for example could mean more competition for FDI.
This could all make things much more difficult for Ireland in the future


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## Betsy Og (19 Sep 2014)

oh well, it was not to be. 

An awful lot of people are now putting the boot into the Scots, questioning their liathroidi (doesnt that bring you back, The Apprentice, yer wan Geddildine), which I think is a bit unfair. The world has moved on and its not about bending the knee to the English lord, its about making a sensible choice for the betterment of the society (not saying a Yes couldnt have ticked that box as well).

They already have some devolved powers, have been promised more, and all in all seem to be on a track for getting as far as they want with this project (not sure outright independence is really required).

The only thing that surprises me, looking back over the last 20 years or so, is why this door was opened at all (wasnt it Labour & Blair???), wasnt it fairly obvious that it would eventually lead to knife-edge decisions like yesterday and an air of fragmentation within the UK. Maybe they had to do it for the North, but the north is always a special case and they were unwise to roll it out to Wales & Scotland.

I see every parish in the UK now wants its own autonomy !!!, the one thing that has always struck me is how London is like a separate country to the rest of England. Outside the capital England and Ireland are fairly comparable, but London is a different beast entirely - independence for London I say


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## Delboy (20 Sep 2014)

Och aye, I wannae keep ma pension


> Scotland’s older people saved the Union
> Young people really wanted independence.
> http://www.thejournal.ie/scottish-referendum-polls-1680576-Sep2014/
> In terms of age, 16-35 year-olds were divided, with 16 and 17-year-olds voting 71% yes. However, 18-24-year-olds voted 52 to 48 against independence. 25-34-year-olds went to other way, voting to break free of Westminster.
> On the other end of the scale, over 65s voted 73% to 27% to stay in the Union.


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## Leper (20 Sep 2014)

Pensions are of the utmost importance to older people who have no other income.  If there is any threat to the amount, naturally, they will circle the wagons and fight.  Our own pensioners are no different.

Let me throw in another scenario (just for the sake of the way Ireland Ltd is . . .).  Even with the best of Private Health Insurance (of which we are informed that thousands are leaving every month) a patient has to wait usually for considerable time before being admitted to a hospital. I won't mention anybody without health insurance looking for a hospital bed.  Let's face it our Health Service is creaking if not already burst at the seams.

In the UK for £10.00 per year you have free hospital care, free GP care, free prescriptions in the their public sector.  I cannot even imagine even Delboy disagreeing with me on that.

In the UK you qualify for an Old Age Pension at 60 (as against 66 here).  The cost of living is lower in the UK also.

Is there any chance of a referendum here in Ireland in which we could again become part of the United Kingdom?


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## Delboy (20 Sep 2014)

Leper said:


> Pensions are of the utmost importance to older people who have no other income.  If there is any threat to the amount, naturally, they will circle the wagons and fight.  Our own pensioners are no different.
> 
> Let me throw in another scenario (just for the sake of the way Ireland Ltd is . . .).  Even with the best of Private Health Insurance (of which we are informed that thousands are leaving every month) a patient has to wait usually for considerable time before being admitted to a hospital. I won't mention anybody without health insurance looking for a hospital bed.  Let's face it our Health Service is creaking if not already burst at the seams.
> 
> ...



If you yearn for the UK so much, you just have to move to the North East of this island and you'll find your utopia!
Last time I checked,  the Pensioners here were doing just fine....largely untouched by the great recession compared to younger generations. You didn't mention perks here such as nationwide free travel in your comparison!

I don't recall Salmond saying the NHS was going to be abandoned or pensions cut..it was all fear mongering in the end by the No's and their Corporate supporters that ensured a win for the Union.


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## moneybox (21 Sep 2014)

Leper said:


> Let's face it our Health Service is creaking if not already burst at the seams.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No


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## Leper (21 Sep 2014)

Delboy said:


> If you yearn for the UK so much, you just have to move to the North East of this island and you'll find your utopia!
> Last time I checked,  the Pensioners here were doing just fine....largely untouched by the great recession compared to younger generations. You didn't mention perks here such as nationwide free travel in your comparison!
> 
> I don't recall Salmond saying the NHS was going to be abandoned or pensions cut..it was all fear mongering in the end by the No's and their Corporate supporters that ensured a win for the Union.



Delboy's first paragraph is the stuff in which drunken, bar-stool idiots come up with trying to "impress" or offend somebody.  Nobody said anything about yearning for the UK etc.  Merely, I was pointing out some of the differences between UK pensioners and ROI pensioners. Furthermore, I have no doubt Delboy has difficulty enough in running his own life and should not waste his time trying to run mine.

If you can show me an Irish pensioner who was untouched by the financial state of our country here over the past few years, I will do my utmost to ensure you get a job as a detective in our police force.

I am glad pensioners in ROI have nationwide free travel.  In the UK pensioners have free travel only within their own area (I am not sure how big an area).

Scare mongering by politicians is part and parcel of every referendum and election.  

On the other hand Moneybox's contribution here was intelligent. I know there are problems with the health service in the UK also, but nothing like ours.

I know people living and working in ROI border counties who have "convenient addresses" in the Six Counties and use these addresses for free healthcare paid for by the British taxpayer.  I have no problem with this and good luck to anybody who can get better and faster healthcare elsewhere.  I think our HSE sends patients abroad when necessary too.

I have to bow to Moneybox's knowledge also.  I based my knowledge on two female people who work in the same room as me who are in their sixties working here ly) and still legally drawing their UK pensions and avail of other benefits of the UK also. For the record:- Good luck to them.


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## Delboy (21 Sep 2014)

Your gave 1 sided examples to show that pensioners have it 'better' in the UK. And I'm sure that they've not escaped the recession unscathed over there either.
You talk about a referendum here on rejoining the UK!
And then you accuse me of bar stool talk and make a broad statement about my life (which is going just fine, thanks) in some sort of attempt to personalise this.

Moneybox rubbishes your points on the mighty NHS and pensions, which shows up that your were shooting in the dark there and have been well and truly pulled up.

G'luck


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## Leper (21 Sep 2014)

Thanks Delboy for such an insightful post.

If Moneybox rubbished my post then why are the two people with whom I work receiving old age pensions from the UK?  Moneybox agreed with me, incidentally and these ladies fell within the range of entitlement and good luck to them.  I hope read posts properly as it appears you did not. And advising me to live in the Northern Ireland "utopia" is the stuff that bar-stool idiots come up with.  

To be honest, Delboy I believe that people on here should be able to withstand most flak from another poster, but you have gone beyond limits.  I'm outta here on this subject.


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## Leo (22 Sep 2014)

Leper said:


> If Moneybox rubbished my post then why are the two people with whom I work receiving old age pensions from the UK?



Because they worked there long enough to be entitled to them based on their contributions? I know a guy who has worked in three countries now long enough to qualify for a state pension in each. Nothing to stop anyone doing that, it's all perfectly legal and above board, no false addresses required.


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