# Brochure Design - can I request in TIFF format?



## TheQuery (11 Apr 2009)

Hi,
We got some brochures deigned and printed from a company a couple of years ago.
We never requested a soft copy of the brochure design. I recently requested a copy of the brochure in TIFF format but I was declined.
Company stated that they don't release their work and that this is "standard design procedures and ethics" Can anyone confirm if I'm entitled to request a TIFF version of the brochure?

Thanks


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## paddi22 (11 Apr 2009)

It depends on any terms and conditions in any contracts or agreements you might have signed probably.

It seems bad form for them not to give it to you. Any design companies I worked for in the past would usually give a 'flattened' copy of brochures to the client. That way the client could get reprinted but couldn't, for example, bring the files to another company to change the text etc. As a company owner myself i would have no problems giving clients files. 

Most places seem to take the view that they don't have to give out 'work' files (which can be altered) but can release flattened versions in pdf, or tiff if that is what you need.


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## Caveat (11 Apr 2009)

paddi22 said:


> It depends on any terms and conditions in any contracts or agreements you might have signed probably.



This is it probably.  I agree with Paddi though - it seems bad form not to provide something.  Any design company I've worked with for the last number of years has never declined.


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## TheQuery (11 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the replies. 
The brochure was designed and printed before my time with the company. As far as I'm aware it was an informal arrangement so there's unlikely to be a contract in place. I need the TIFF format so I can add a few more images to the brochure and then get it printed more competitively elsewhere. I would have assumed if you pay for the design then you should be entitled to claim ownership of the resulting work.


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## WaterSprite (11 Apr 2009)

TheQuery said:


> I would have assumed if you pay for the design then you should be entitled to claim ownership of the resulting work.



A common mis-perception.  In the absence of a written (signed) agreement transferring copyright, ownership rests with the author, regardless of who pays the bill.  Agree it's bad form, but I'd say they are not lying to you when they say that it's standard practice.


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## Complainer (11 Apr 2009)

What form do you have it in? If you have .pdf format, you can edit this with a full edition of Adobe Acrobat.


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## AlbacoreA (12 Apr 2009)

Hes doesn't have a soft copy.


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## TheQuery (13 Apr 2009)

Looks like I can get my hands on a PDF version for a fee. I think this is a tad cheeky to say the least. We paid this company €20,000 for a 10,000 36 page brochures only a couple of years ago. I don't believe a fee to release a PDF version is reasonable.


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## jhegarty (13 Apr 2009)

Make sure you are also getting the copyright.


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## paddi22 (13 Apr 2009)

also make sure you get a high-res pdf...


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## AlbacoreA (13 Apr 2009)

I thought you can lock PDF's from editing in adobe acrobat so you'd have to buy something to crack the PDF.

Paying for updates And revisions to content is sizable revenue stream. I could see why they wouldn't just give that away. If it's too expensive clients will just want to do of themselves. Assuming they have resources free to do it.

Of course they've lost your business as soon As you get a soft copy so this is their last chance to get money from you.


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## AlbacoreA (13 Apr 2009)

Of course they know you won't be going back if you want a soft copy so it's their last chance to get money from this account.


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## TheQuery (14 Apr 2009)

Hi Padii22, what dpi do you suggest I ask for? They're offering 72 dpi.


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## Caveat (14 Apr 2009)

TheQuery said:


> Hi Padii22, what dpi do you suggest I ask for? They're offering 72 dpi.


 
72 is poor for a brochure. I would expect 4 times that as a minimum.


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## Scotsgirl (14 Apr 2009)

72 dpi is too low.  If you need it for printing purposes you need it high resolution.  Should be 300 dpi for printing.


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## TheQuery (2 May 2009)

Eventually got my hands on a high resolution version of the PDF file. I have two queries;
1. How do I check the resolution of the file?
2. I now need to make a few changes before getting it printed. I installed the trial version of Adobe Acrobat Pro but I'm now getting the error 'No available system font' when I attempt to edit text. Does anyone know if it's possible to edit text in a PDF without having the original fonts?  
Thanks.


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## AlbacoreA (2 May 2009)

AFAIK no if the font is not embedded. You can substitute a font but it will change the formatting/layout. Make a dogs dinner of the whole thing. if you didn't know anything about this, do you know anything about preparing things for print?


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## TheQuery (2 May 2009)

Unfortunately the font is embedded. I tried to substitute the font for a locally installed one but got the following error "chosen font and font encodings in the document differ and couldn't be resolved". 
I'm a novice on printing to be honest. I was hoping it wouldn't be too difficult to edit a PDF file but I obviously under estimated the task!


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## rubywalsh (2 May 2009)

You need to use Adobe Illustrator to open the pdf file and make any changes. The brochure was more than likely created with Illustrator in the first place as you need high qulaity output for print. If you don't have the font installed on your pc or if it is not on the trial download of Illustrator, when you open the file it will substitute a font for you.
You can downlaod a trial of Illustrator from the adobe site


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## AlbacoreA (2 May 2009)

Been a long time since I did printing but aren't PDFs, fonts and illustrator files resolution or quality independent. They are all vectors. The only thing that isn't is the photos which you link to the full resolution files? We used to use quark for layout and illustrator was only used for doing vector graphics. Or one or two pages things like posters and the like. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.


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## mathepac (2 May 2009)

TheQuery said:


> ...
> I'm a novice on printing to be honest. I was hoping it wouldn't be too difficult to edit a PDF file but I obviously under estimated the task!


There's a bit more to it than people realise - having a piece of software and a document to work on is a bit like having a nice car at a race-track but not knowing how to drive.


AlbacoreA said:


> ... We used to use quark for layout and illustrator was only used for doing vector graphics. Or one or two pages things like posters and the like. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.


XPress (or Aldus PageMaker or RagTime) for page layout / document design, Illustrator for eh well illustrations, PhotoShop for photos.


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## AlbacoreA (2 May 2009)

From distant memory registration used to be a right pain where things moved and you'd get it back from the printers slightly off. Printers were always mucking with the files.


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## rubywalsh (2 May 2009)

There is very good article here
http://www.graphic-design-employment.com/how-to-edit-pdf.html


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## ButtermilkJa (7 May 2009)

Bear in mind that the original brochure was produced a few years back so the design company are entitled to charge a retrieval fee at the very least to dig out the artwork and send it across.

Even if this only takes few minutes to complete (assuming a good back-up/archiving facility), the company would have costs for digital storage/archiving etc and would be entitled to try and recover a portion of this.

Getting a Hi-Res PDF is a good result. Trying to change fonts, layout, images etc is a designers job which requires specialist software (and design experience  ) costing thousands of Euro so be prepared to meet obstacles when trying to do these tasks yourself.


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## paddi22 (8 May 2009)

To be honest it will be very difficult for you to alter the files yourself. Doing text changes in Acrobat Professional can make things shift and jump, and is difficult even if the fonts are embedded. There's also other issues in setting it up for print that you mightn't be aware of, and then the finished product wouldn't look as good as you want.

If you want to print the brochure the dpi should be 300. If its anything below then any images that are raster/bitmap (made up of colour dots) will look bad when printed. 

If you needed it done cheap then maybe go to www.creativeireland.com and ask for a student/cheap freelancer to do it. You might get someone who will do it cheap for their portfolio. They can copy the design from the original brochure so the process should be quite quick.


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## AlbacoreA (8 May 2009)

Or at least someone else else would have all the hassle. 

Might be easier to renegotiate the printing costs with the original company


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## TheQuery (9 May 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions. 
I'm going to pass it over to a third party to complete the changes. The Print company didn't charge anything for releasing the high resolution PDF so this gives me a few Euro to play around with.


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