# What Does A Guarantee Mean?



## One (11 Dec 2008)

Assume I purchased an item from a shop. And a company called ‘Anonymous Co. Ltd’ manufactured the item. ‘Anonymous Co. Ltd’ are based miles away from where I live. When I brought it home it was not working, and the fault is because the item is defective. 


Assume the guarantee states as follows:

“Anonymous Co. Ltd. guarantees its product range for a period of 1 year from the original certified date of purchase. During this period we have the right to: -
a). Provide parts for the purchaser to effect repair.
b). Repair the product, returned to our warehouse (at the purchaser's cost).
c). Replace the product if it is deemed (by us) to be economical to do so.
This does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer”.

What does this guarantee actually mean? I believe that I have a right for repair / replace / refund, and I think this guarantee is trying to impose conditions about repair and replacement. I want to know are they allowed to do that.
(1) Do I still have an absolute right for a refund? No refund is mentioned in the guarantee. 
(2) Do they have a right to give the purchaser the spare parts to repair the item in question himself? Isn't the onus upon them to repair the item? 
(3) Do the rights they state they have in their guarantee conflict with any of my consumer rights? For example, if want the item to be repaired, do I have to pay to have the item to be transported to their premises miles away?


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## mathepac (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

Any recourse you have is against the retailer you purchased the telly from.


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## ubiquitous (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



One said:


> Sorry about the silly name of the shop.



I think you should edit your post. I stopped reading after  the first sentence.


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## Padraigb (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



mathepac said:


> Any recourse you have is against the retailer you purchased the telly from.



That is right. You have no contract with the manufacturer.

You do not have an unqualified right to a refund. The retailer can repair the television (if it can be done to an appropriate standard), or replace it, or refund the money. In general, it is for the retailer to choose which remedy to apply.

[I think you put a simple question in a way that is too elaborate.]


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## One (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

My own belief was exactly as you say, that my contract is with the retailer and not with the manufacturer. But this is where I then get confused. I don't understand the legal implications of been given a guarantee at all? I mean, is the guarantee completely irrelevant because I have no contract with the manufaturer?


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## jhegarty (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



One said:


> My own belief was exactly as you say, that my contract is with the retailer and not with the manufacturer. But this is where I then get confused. I don't understand the legal implications of been given a guarantee at all? I mean, is the guarantee completely irrelevant because I have no contract with the manufaturer?



A guarantee is in addition to your legal rights , not replacing them.

Think of it as bonus on top of what they legally have to do.


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## Padraigb (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



jhegarty said:


> A guarantee is in addition to your legal rights , not replacing them.
> 
> Think of it as bonus on top of what they legally have to do.



Yes. But some retailers try not to treat it that way. They ask customers to take on the trouble of exercising the manufacturer's guarantee.

The only time that I have used a manufacturer's guarantee was when it provided for a repair at my home. I don't remember the details exactly, but I think even then it was the retailer who arranged it for me.


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## jhegarty (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



Padraigb said:


> Yes. But some retailers try not to treat it that way. They ask customers to take on the trouble of exercising the manufacturer's guarantee.




And that's why everyone should be aware of their legal rights.


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## One (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

Thanks for the reply jhegarty about saying ‘A guarantee is in addition to your legal rights’. That makes sense to me, but let me come with another question. (I have had alot trouble in the last three years with defective goods).

I understand and agree that ‘A guarantee is in addition to your legal rights’. But here is where I get confused. When I read the guarantee in my original post, it seems to me to make repair more onerous / harder / expensive for me, even though it is not supposed to. Maybe I am completely wrong in saying that, but I will just quickly explain what I mean with reference to (a) and (b).

_a). Provide parts for the purchaser to effect repair._ – If I have to repair something, that I neither have the skill, tools nor time to repair, I am at a financial loss. For example, if I buy an item for €1000, and it is defective, and I have to pay €100 for somebody to come and put the new parts into it, I don’t think this is fair. I have borne the cost of buying the item and then the partial cost of repairing it. 

_b). Repair the product, returned to our warehouse (at the purchaser's cost). _- If I have to transport a very heavy item to the warehouse, which is far away, I would have to pay substantial transportation costs. Therefore, again I am at a financial loss. I don’t think this is fair. 

Both (a) and (b) have happened to me before. In summary, I think the ideal situation is to be able to go to the retailer and have him say “we’ll get that repaired for you no problem”. In contrast, I think that the above guarantee has made repair more onerous for me. I think the above guarantee would make repair more onerous for a large percentage of consumers.


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## jhegarty (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

despite what shops may tell you, your legal rights are very clear.

Walk into the shop with the TV and demand a repair , placement or refund. Tell them you will filing in small claims court if you don't get one of these.


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## One (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

Can I therefore conclude that;
(1) My contract is with the retailer only, I have no contract with the manufacturer.
(2) The manufacturer attempts to establish a contract with me by giving me a guarantee.
(3) A guarantee is an addition to my legal rights.
(4) A guarantee may be wholly or partially legally irrelevant if it tries to adversely affect my statutory rights as a consumer.
(5) The guarantee as described in my original post is legally irrelevant because it does adversely affect my statutory rights as a consumer by making the terms for repair more onerous. There is an unqualified duty upon the retailer to repair, or to arrange the repair of, the item in question.

Number (5) is the point I would really love an opinion on.


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## sam h (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*

In addition to the questions posed - can the manufacturer charge you to have the engineer come out to fix the problem?

I've had an issue with a washer which was about 15 months old - the only way to get an engineer to come out was to pay the call out fee & he replaced the faulty part.  Should they not have to refund the call out if the fault is a manufacturing one rather than misuse (if anyone has the specific legislation I'd be grateful)


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## Padraigb (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



One said:


> Can I therefore conclude that;
> (1) My contract is with the retailer only, I have no contract with the manufacturer.
> (2) The manufacturer attempts to establish a contract with me by giving me a guarantee.
> (3) A guarantee is an addition to my legal rights.
> ...



1. Yes.
2. No. The manufacturer knows he cannot force a contract on you.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Yes, except that it can be repair, replace, or refund your money.


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## Padraigb (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: What Does A Actually Guarantee Mean?*



sam h said:


> In addition to the questions posed - can the manufacturer charge you to have the engineer come out to fix the problem?
> 
> I've had an issue with a washer which was about 15 months old - the only way to get an engineer to come out was to pay the call out fee & he replaced the faulty part.  Should they not have to refund the call out if the fault is a manufacturing one rather than misuse (if anyone has the specific legislation I'd be grateful)



That depends entirely on the terms of the guarantee. What you describe is a fairly common model. Remember that the manufacturer has no contract with you.

Whether you can claim on a retailer for a part that fails after 15 months is not clear. In most cases, the courts would probably not support you unless it was evident that there was a substantial defect that must have been present from the very beginning. It's probably not worth pursuing.


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## One (12 Dec 2008)

Thanks Padraigb. That makes things clearer. The retailer I was dealing with asked me to exercise the manufacturer's guarantee. The way he communicated with me left me thinking he had being talking to his solicitor about the matter. He had photocopied the manufacturers guarantee and posted to me as well. So I got confused about rights, etc. Thanks again.


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## One (17 Dec 2008)

I am just after getting a reply from the National Consumer Agency that is almost the same as part (3) of the query I originally posted. The query that I sent to the National Consumer Agency is as follows;

"I have bought a very heavy item that is faulty. The sale was for the item and for free delivery. The retailer in his van delivered it to my house. The retailer states that I have to return it to his warehouse before he will repair it. I am not able to transport this item in my car; the item is too big to fit. The retailer states that he is not insured to work (repair the item) in my house. Is the retailer under an obligation to collect and transport the item back to his warehouse for repair, or do I have to somehow organize and pay for transport of the item?"   

The reply I got from the National Consumer Agency is as follows; 

"The retailer is under no obligation to collect or transport the item for repair."  

If I were to transport the item to the retailer I would have to hire a 'man and a van' to do so. This would cost €40. When I collect the item after repair, I would have to pay another €40. This means I would have to pay €80 to repair the item!!! 

I believe the Sales of Goods Act entitles me to a repair. But the National Consumer Agency is telling me I have to bear most of the cost of this repair. 


If in general, it is for the retailer to choose which remedy to apply, and the retailer chooses repair, why do I have to pay out €80 for this? Why does a customer have to suffer a financial penalty when he / she has done nothing wrong?


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