# DEGIRO no longer allowing to buy uk trusts



## dave2015 (14 Jan 2021)

Hi
I have tried to buy SMT and FCIT in particular and told that will only allow reduce my position, anyone aware of the context and if other brokers have followed suit?
Thanks


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## shades25 (14 Jan 2021)

I've seen the same as you for these two trusts, it looks like some other trusts listed on LSE can be bought though (haven't executed a buy but do not get the same error message).


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## RedOnion (14 Jan 2021)

I'm not an expert, but reason is Brexit. My understanding is that they're considered complex instruments, and can't be marketed in the EU until an equivalence agreement is made.


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## AJAM (1 Feb 2021)

Not sure it's quite as straightforward as that. On Degiro I can still buy
FGT, CTY, MYI and JGGI.
But I can't buy BNKR, MRC, FCIT, SMT, JEO, ATR, BGSC.
I did initially think Brexit, but shouldn't Brexit apply to all of them (Investment Trusts)?


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## Younginvestor93 (3 Feb 2021)

AJAM said:


> Not sure it's quite as straightforward as that. On Degiro I can still buy
> FGT, CTY, MYI and JGGI.
> But I can't buy BNKR, MRC, FCIT, SMT, JEO, ATR, BGSC.
> I did initially think Brexit, but shouldn't Brexit apply to all of them (Investment Trusts)?


Strange, let us know if you get to the bottom of it and get a response from Degiro.


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## Olympian (3 Feb 2021)

I asked Degiro few weeks back - specifically about SMT and FCIT. Response was that they fall under PRIIPS and need a KID - which is being worked on.


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## Marc (3 Feb 2021)

I did try to draw attention to this exact issue in several posts but I kept getting shouted down.

naturally we have been working on solutions


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## Younginvestor93 (4 Feb 2021)

Olympian said:


> I asked Degiro few weeks back - specifically about SMT and FCIT. Response was that they fall under PRIIPS and need a KID - which is being worked on.
> 
> View attachment 5312


Does this mean it will be taxed at 41% like an etf or still taxed at 33%?


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## Sarenco (4 Feb 2021)

Olympian said:


> I asked Degiro few weeks back - specifically about SMT and FCIT. Response was that they fall under PRIIPS and need a KID - which is being worked on.
> 
> View attachment 5312


That’s weird because FCIT already publishes a KID.


			https://www.bmogam.com/gb-en/retail/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/l133-fc-investment-trust.pdf


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## Sarenco (4 Feb 2021)

Younginvestor93 said:


> Does this mean it will be taxed at 41% like an etf or still taxed at 33%?


No.


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## Sarenco (5 Feb 2021)

As things stand today, a KID must be provided to retail investors in an investment trust.

The UK implemented the EU's PRIIPs Regulation back in 2018 and it was subsequently "onshored" so that it continues to apply as a matter of UK law post-Brexit.

So nothing has changed from a regulatory point of view.

Last July, the UK Treasury indicated that it intended to bring forward amendments to the onshored PRIIPs Regulation to improve the functioning of the PRIIPs regime in the UK
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/905542/Policy_Statement_-_PRIIPs__July_2020__HMT_Template.pdf

However, there is no proposal to remove the requirement that a KID must be provided to retail investors in an investment trust.


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## AJAM (20 Mar 2021)

Hey Folks

The following Investment Trusts are still available to Buy on Degiro


InvestmentTickerRatingYieldFeeStyleStrategyEdinburgh Worldwide Investment TrustEWISilver 50.00%​0.72%​Mid GrowthGlobal Small tech and BiotechMonks Investment TrustMNKSSilver 50.18%​0.48%​Lg GrowthGlobal Large-Cap GrowthMid Wynd International Investment TrustMWYSilver 30.90%​0.69%​Lg GrowthGlobal MoatPacific Assets TrustPACSilver 40.94%​1.19%​Lg GrowthAsia Pacific (Ex Japan, Aus & NZ)JPMorgan American Investment TrustJAMBronze 31.09%​0.18%​Lg BlendUS CoreFidelity Asian ValuesFASSilver 41.86%​0.99%​Mid ValueAsian Region (excluding Japan)Finsbury Growth & Income TrustFGTSilver 51.93%​0.64%​Mix GrowthUK High QualityJPMorgan Global Growth & IncomeJGGIBronze 43.21%​0.56%​Lg GrowthWorld Dividend GrowthMURRAY INTERNATIONAL TRUSTMYISilver 24.54%​0.65%​Lg ValueIntl Hi Div Yld (ex US)City of LondonCTYSilver 45.05%​0.36%​Lg Valuecore UK equity income

Note, there are others available, but I stick to ones that have a Morningstar rating of Bronze or better.


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## thespecialon (31 Mar 2021)

Anyone have an update on this? I cant seem to buy any Investment Trusts on LSE - I already hold Templeton Emerging Markets, Fidelity European Trust and Bankers Investment trust but cant add  to these positions...Is there US/European market equivalents or what are people doing that invested in these trusts regularly?
Thanks


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## jpd (31 Mar 2021)

There is generally no equivalent trusts on European markets. 
There are plenty of ETFs which fulfill the role of UK investment trusts in Europe and which are taxed as shares in many European countries. But not in Ireland, of course


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## thespecialon (31 Mar 2021)

jpd said:


> There is generally no equivalent trusts on European markets.
> There are plenty of ETFs which fulfill the role of UK investment trusts in Europe and which are taxed as shares in many European countries. But not in Ireland, of course


Thanks,yea I'd prefer to be investing in ETFs but as you say it's a pain re tax treatment so that's why I went down the investment trust route but that seems to be blocked for now at least


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## MugsGame (31 Mar 2021)

Would you consider a direct investment in Berkshire, and/or its smaller copycats: Markel and Alleghany? They behave like a well managed US active fund/ETF, but are just a normal company stock, so gains only attract tax (CGT) on disposal. And growth focused so reinvest profits rather than paying dividends.

Disclosure: I hold a position in some of the securities mentioned. I cannot predict their future performance, but their tax treatment seems to meet your requirements.


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## thespecialon (1 Apr 2021)

MugsGame said:


> Would you consider a direct investment in Berkshire, and/or its smaller copycats: Markel and Alleghany? They behave like a well managed US active fund/ETF, but are just a normal company stock, so gains only attract tax (CGT) on disposal. And growth focused so reinvest profits rather than paying dividends.
> 
> Disclosure: I hold a position in some of the securities mentioned. I cannot predict their future performance, but their tax treatment seems to meet your requirements.


Thanks yea I already hold Berkshire and will keep adding to it , I'll look into the other 2 you mention ..I suppose I wanted to diversify away from the US a bit ,hence the European values and emerging markets, even though I know most big companies are multinational anyway


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## Jimmy2times9999 (6 Apr 2021)

AJAM said:


> Hey Folks
> 
> The following Investment Trusts are still available to Buy on Degiro
> 
> ...



These appear to be removed now except JGGI. Any idea why some are being removed but some kept?


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## k06351000 (15 May 2021)

Any updates on this? Seem to be even fewer available now, but such as JGGI still available to purchase,


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## Ravima (16 May 2021)

CTY not there now!


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## k06351000 (16 May 2021)

Ravima said:


> CTY not there now!



FGT gone also. Think investments trusts are no longer an option on Degiro going forward, Any recommendations for alternative low cost but safe brokers?


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## Marc (18 May 2021)

This is our UK Investment Trust Portfolio vs the FTSE All World Index for the last few years. Although we now generally use non-EU ETFs for our clients, its interesting to note that a more expensive portfolio of actively managed trusts with a dollop of gearing have actually performed reasonably well over the last few years.



			https://twitter.com/WestlakeMarc/status/1394668774792572928?s=20
		


Happy to try to accommodate anyone who’s been cut off as we predicted would be the case by Brexit.


The United Kingdom left the European Union on January 1, 2021, which will result in various changes to investment funds domiciled and managed in the United Kingdom (i.e. funds with GB-ISIN). This means that the affected funds will lose their distribution status which will certainly have far-reaching effects on their access by EU investors.

For the moment and as far as we can tell, the following areas will be affected by said changes:

*1) Country registrations*
Many of the funds with GB-ISIN also previously held a distribution registration for countries outside the UK. However, in most instances, the general country registrations of these funds will remain for the UK only, and the EU distribution authorizations will lapse.

*2) Information and documentation *
As a result of the changes to country registrations, many of the fund companies whose products are affected will cease producing and distributing information and documentation for countries outside the UK. This includes performance data, KIIDs (Key Investor Information Documents), factsheets etc.

*3) Change of MiFID II status*
As a consequence of the reclassification, investment firms may in future classify the impacted funds as complex investment products. This means that, unless they already have it, a one-off ‘Appropriateness Test’ will be required from the client upon first purchase.

*4) Existing holdings*
Currently, it does not appear that the relevant fund companies will force investors with existing holdings to switch or sell their shares, but the restrictions mentioned under 2) must still be borne in mind.


Marc Westlake
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
www.globalwealth.ie


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## Jimmy2times9999 (26 May 2021)

F&C is back on De Giro!


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## k06351000 (26 May 2021)

Jimmy2times9999 said:


> F&C is back on De Giro!


Thanks, very interesting. Begs the question.. I wonder if any more are coming back?


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## k06351000 (29 May 2021)

k06351000 said:


> Thanks, very interesting. Begs the question.. I wonder if any more are coming back?


Looks like Edinburgh worldwide is back now also...


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## Sarenco (29 May 2021)

As noted earlier in this thread, there is no regulatory reason why Degiro cannot make ITs available to Irish investors.

Brexit has not changed this position (despite what others might suggest).


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## AJAM (31 May 2021)

Jimmy2times9999 said:


> F&C is back on De Giro!


F&C's fee has also reduced to 0.52%


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## Smaug~~°w°~~ (31 May 2021)

I'm not sure what to make of Degiro lately.  Is anyone else having problems with their portfolio share prices?  They're not always correct and at 'end of day' I have to do my own calculations.  A classic example for me at the moment is one particular company on the ISE that hasn't been correct for over a week now.  I emailed them last Thursday and no response so far.
I didn't think this was worth starting a new thread over but if you think I'm hijacking this one I will.


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## jpd (31 May 2021)

I presume that the Irish company had some transactions over the week?

As they do not seem to have real-time access to prices on the ISE exchange, or rather the Euronext/Dublin exchange, (for cost reasons, I presume) they use an end of day feed to update prices.

The large number of bank holidays over the last week or two in Europe may have disrupted the normal flow of price data.


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## Smaug~~°w°~~ (31 May 2021)

jpd said:


> I presume that the Irish company had some transactions over the week?



Yes it did 



jpd said:


> As they do not seem to have real-time access to prices on the ISE exchange, or rather the Euronext/Dublin exchange, (for cost reasons, I presume) they use an end of day feed to update prices.



There are a few companies in my portfolio that have 'end of day' prices updates - mostly Irish and Canadian.  Well used to that and not an issue.



jpd said:


> The large number of bank holidays over the last week or two in Europe may have disrupted the normal flow of price data.



It's been 6 business days so I wondered is it just me or are others having similar issues?

I do like Degiro but I don't like issues like this as, although small, they will eventually get up my nose.


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## Smaug~~°w°~~ (31 May 2021)

Degiros ears must have been burning because I just got an email saying they'd pass the "request" on to their IT dept.


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## jpd (31 May 2021)

There is probably a long chain of different systems involved in getting the prices from Euronext/Dublin to the Degiro platform so IT problems are bound to happen every now and again


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## joe sod (1 Jun 2021)

City of London, and finsbury growth and income, and Bankers investment trust still not available to buy on degiro ? 
I wonder what the criteria is, a bit disappoint about that


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## k06351000 (1 Jun 2021)

joe sod said:


> City of London, and finsbury growth and income, and Bankers investment trust still not available to buy on degiro ?
> I wonder what the criteria is, a bit disappoint about that


No idea, would be great to know. I wonder if anyone has noticed any more returning?


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## AJAM (2 Jun 2021)

They do seem to be gradually returning. Available now are

Keystone Positive Change Investment Trust (KPC)
Schroder Oriental Income Fund (SOI)
F&C INVESTMENT TRUST (FCIT)
JPMorgan Global Growth & Income (JGGI)
Aberdeen Emerging Markets Investment Company (AEMC)
BMO Managed Portfolio Growth (BMPG)
Edinburgh Worldwide Investment Trust (EWI)


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## k06351000 (2 Jun 2021)

AJAM said:


> They do seem to be gradually returning. Available now are
> 
> Keystone Positive Change Investment Trust (KPC)
> Schroder Oriental Income Fund (SOI)
> ...



Thanks - hopefully they keep coming back!


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## AJAM (3 Jun 2021)

Murray International Trust (MYI)
BANKERS INVESTMENT TRUST (BNKR)
Monks Investment Trust (MNKS)

Now also back.


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## k06351000 (8 Jun 2021)

CTY - City of London seems to be back today.


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## AJAM (14 Jun 2021)

Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust (SMT)

Now also back.


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