# Viewing a will ?



## Medic112 (9 May 2013)

Is a will only to be viewed by immediate family and those mentioned in the will ? Or can a will be viewed by anyone ?

Many thanks.


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## mf1 (9 May 2013)

A will is private until the testator dies. Then, on death,  it can be viewed by the executor and those sections relevant to a beneficiary can be made available to those beneficiaries. 

Once a will has gone to Probate it is a matter of public record and anyone can, on paying the requisite fee, view a copy from the  Probate Office.

mf


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## beffers (9 May 2013)

OP, family members ( immediate or otherwise ) don't have any automatic rights to see a Will. As mf1 says, if they are mentioned in it, they are entitled to see the parts of it that relate to them. If they are not named in the will, they are not entitled to see it at all.


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## sks (4 Jun 2014)

Hi there, does a will automatically go to probate after a period of time? if the spouse of deceased is still living, do they look after the will?


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## mf1 (4 Jun 2014)

sks said:


> Hi there, does a will automatically go to probate after a period of time? if the spouse of deceased is still living, do they look after the will?



It depends. If assets are held in joint names, they will pass automatically to the survivor. It is not at all unusual for there to be no need to go to Probate. In some cases, there may be assets that cannot be accessed without Probate but there may no desire or appetite to deal with Probate. 

Perhaps if you were more specific? Why are you asking? What are you asking? What are the circumstances? 

mf


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## sks (10 Jun 2014)

hi Mf1, thank you for your reply. My fiance is trying to figure out where he stands, his father told him he was leaving his house to him in his will, i assume same went in his mothers will as they did them together. his father passed away recently, he checked with the probate office they have no record of the will, his mother has it and has not been exactly forthcoming, there are issues within the family and poor communication. without having a show down with her he wants to see his fathers will, but does not even know who the executor is.. he sold a property of his own and invested a large sum into the family home building onto it... he is renting now to accommodated us his family but sees that as his house although he never got anything drawn up legally at the time, he trusted his parents. now, he has discovered his house is occupied he is receiving no rent for this, when confronting his mother he was told its her house to do with what she wants! so now he wants to find out did his father actually do as he stated leave the family home (which includes my fiances little annex built on), and what rights does he have, or with his mother living does it just all go to her, and can she sell it.....sorry for looong story!


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## sks (10 Jun 2014)

mf1 said:


> It depends. If assets are held in joint names, they will pass automatically to the survivor. It is not at all unusual for there to be no need to go to Probate. In some cases, there may be assets that cannot be accessed without Probate but there may no desire or appetite to deal with Probate.
> 
> Perhaps if you were more specific? Why are you asking? What are you asking? What are the circumstances?
> 
> mf



hi Mf1, thank you for your reply. My fiance is trying to figure out where he stands, his father told him he was leaving his house to him in his will, i assume same went in his mothers will as they did them together. his father passed away recently, he checked with the probate office they have no record of the will, his mother has it and has not been exactly forthcoming, there are issues within the family and poor communication. without having a show down with her he wants to see his fathers will, but does not even know who the executor is.. he sold a property of his own and invested a large sum into the family home building onto it... he is renting now to accommodated us his family but sees that as his house although he never got anything drawn up legally at the time, he trusted his parents. now, he has discovered his house is occupied he is receiving no rent for this, when confronting his mother he was told its her house to do with what she wants! so now he wants to find out did his father actually do as he stated leave the family home (which includes my fiances little annex built on), and what rights does he have, or with his mother living does it just all go to her, and can she sell it.....sorry for looong story!


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## huskerdu (10 Jun 2014)

I am not a lawyer, but here are some things that might help.

 The will will not be in the probate office yet, as it will not have gone to probate yet, if the death was recent. 

 Does he know that the house legally belonged to his father, and not both his parents as a joint asset. If it belonged to his parent jointly, it will have passed directly to his mother. 

 If it belonged to his father, then his mother cannot sell it. 

 I think he needs legal advice to get proper advice on what to do next to find out about the will.


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## sks (10 Jun 2014)

huskerdu said:


> I am not a lawyer, but here are some things that might help.
> 
> The will will not be in the probate office yet, as it will not have gone to probate yet, if the death was recent.
> 
> ...




Hi there,

Yes the house was owned jointly, his father is 16 months passed. As i said to him, regardless of his fathers wishes to leave the house to him, and would be fair after he invested almost 100,000 into it assuming he was settling there, as siblings had been provided for out of the family business, houses land etc...and were all set up (my fiance is the youngest).. however i think it would have to be stated in both wills, ie in his dads-he intends to leave his house (or his portion as in jointly owned) to his son, as does his wife in her will. she is living , so i think it doesnt come into effect until her death. he said this evening that the conversation a few years ago went like this...his dad called him in and said 'we' went and did our wills today, im leaving you this house in the will. so it may be in both their wills. but his mam could chang hers!!! relations arent good. but as my other half said which i think kinda makes sense too, 'then what is the point in dad having a will and leaving me the house in it, if it all goes to mam to do with what she will, kinda pointless he even doing that then' i said well maybe its hoped she will 'honour his wishes'. anyway his other problem is, after investing in the property extending it (originally to accommodate the parents coming home from abroad for visits as they had moved there, they changed their mind and moved home, after moving him up there, he had sold his place invested the proceeds into their place on the promise of being able to take over the main house when settling down, family etc...and they had a little house to stay in when home) where does he stand now. all his money went into it.. they were some family rows with siblings affecting his relationship with his parents. and other stuff. with being left in the little house when he started a family there was some talk from his dad about reviewing things extending the smaller house swapping? not sure what he meant.. never happened! between tensions from sibling,and our growing family we moved to a rented larger house, and for some space, maybe silly move now. we did want to move back down but do some internal renovating to accommodate kids , at some point, after all he did pay for and build it!! and where renting it out would have given us a rental income he didnt as his mum wouldnt have wanted strangers there.. he has discovered the sibling who caused alot of trouble is living in his house with no one asking him! or paying rent when confronting his mum she said it was all HER house to do with what she wanted and hed 'get his money back when she sells it'....he doesnt want it sold


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## mf1 (12 Jun 2014)

sks

There's too much stuff crammed into your post. It's really hard to read and harder to follow. 

huskerdu's advice is good. He needs his own legal advice and it would be very helpful for a solicitor if he wrote out the story in chronological order, otherwise he'll run up more costs as the solicitor tries to unravel what is fact, what is hurt and what the actual situation is. 

I have clients who simply talk in "statements" - as in, "the house is mine" or "I'm entitled to" etc.,etc., which when you follow through on a reality check, generally are fallacious. 

There's a misconception that talking to a solicitor will mean an escalation of a problem - but that's not necessarily the case. Most solicitors will review/elicit a clear set of facts and advise on an appropriate course of action. And that may mean doing absolutely nothing because the costs and fallout of pursuing a claim ( be it legitimate or not) vastly exceed any possible financial settlement. 

mf


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## dereko1969 (12 Jun 2014)

sks said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Yes the house was owned jointly, his father is 16 months passed. As i said to him, regardless of his fathers wishes to leave the house to him, and would be fair after he invested almost 100,000 into it assuming he was settling there, as siblings had been provided for out of the family business, houses land etc...and were all set up (my fiance is the youngest).. however i think it would have to be stated in both wills, ie in his dads-he intends to leave his house (or his portion as in jointly owned) to his son, as does his wife in her will. she is living , so i think it doesnt come into effect until her death. he said this evening that the conversation a few years ago went like this...his dad called him in and said 'we' went and did our wills today, im leaving you this house in the will. so it may be in both their wills. but his mam could chang hers!!! relations arent good. but as my other half said which i think kinda makes sense too, 'then what is the point in dad having a will and leaving me the house in it, if it all goes to mam to do with what she will, kinda pointless he even doing that then' i said well maybe its hoped she will 'honour his wishes'. anyway his other problem is, after investing in the property extending it (originally to accommodate the parents coming home from abroad for visits as they had moved there, they changed their mind and moved home, after moving him up there, he had sold his place invested the proceeds into their place on the promise of being able to take over the main house when settling down, family etc...and they had a little house to stay in when home) where does he stand now. all his money went into it.. they were some family rows with siblings affecting his relationship with his parents. and other stuff. with being left in the little house when he started a family there was some talk from his dad about reviewing things extending the smaller house swapping? not sure what he meant.. never happened! between tensions from sibling,and our growing family we moved to a rented larger house, and for some space, maybe silly move now. we did want to move back down but do some internal renovating to accommodate kids , at some point, after all he did pay for and build it!! and where renting it out would have given us a rental income he didnt as his mum wouldnt have wanted strangers there.. he has discovered the sibling who caused alot of trouble is living in his house with no one asking him! or paying rent when confronting his mum she said it was all HER house to do with what she wanted and hed 'get his money back when she sells it'....he doesnt want it sold



Re-write this into FACTS
Use bullet points or at least paragraphs, it's impossible to make sense of.


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## sks (14 Jun 2014)

Apologies I am new to this, and was writing in a hurry.

Ok so the story goes 

1: My other half sold a house he owned paid off the mortgage and invested the money he was left into the parents home after it had been suggested to him by them that: rather than he try to maintain a mortgage, they were moving abroad and he could look after their house that they were leaving to him (as his siblings had their lands/homes, they built with proceeds from a family business).

2: He would build onto the family home, a smaller house (like an annex) and there they would have somewhere to stay when visiting home.

3: I think about 8 months later they returned home having changed there mind, they decided they didnt want to live abroad and would only take long holidays in the house abroad.

4: My OH having sold his house was stuck there really but was happy enough for the foreseeable to stay in the smaller house, knowing (assuming now i think) that in time things would change, eg swap houses, extend his into theres where they was room, when he had a family.

5: time passed, one day his father called him into his and said they (his parents) had been to write their wills and were leaving him the family home in the will.
(this further comforted him that he would be suitably accommodated at some point.

6: Family disputes were had, no need for details and not re housing, causing bad feelings on and off.

7: We meet, Im asked to move in, I resist initially as I didnt want to live next door to his parents, not that I had a problem with them, but I wouldnt live with my own  eventually I agree as it made more sense as he had no mortgage and I was renting.

8: We start a family, parents seemed delighted and the father made a passing remark about 'reviewing' living arrangements. A positive one we thought. 

9: A sibling causes alot of trouble, causing lots of tension again, my OH and his parents relationship damaged as a result. After a time with our growing family I push to move out to rent , as we did not have the room where we were and with tensions I didnt feel his family we're going to stick to any original plan, (especially when the area in the larger house previously not used was getting a make over!).

10: During an argument with his father the father says in the heat of the moment 'move out' then, and giving the impression we werent wanted there. I stress we did nothing wrong(only stand up to a bullying sibling, whom i wished the parents could see what this person was up to)

11. We move, ideally liking to rent out the little house to help us pay rent, my OH has at this point lost his job. Out of respect for his mother he doesnt suggest renting it just yet as his father passes away, she wont want strangers there.

12. Time passes, tension is still there really. OH goes to old house to get some things, to discover locks changed, an to discover troublesome sibling is living in it, this person has a HUGE house of their own! He confronts mother who say 'its her house to do with what she wants', he says its his house she again states its 'her house', to which he replies, 'ok then what about all of the money i put into it??? i have no say now???'' she replies ''you'll get your money when i sell it'

IF he is infact in the will, can she sell it??? jointly owned or not IF his father did leave his portion to his son, how can she sell it. She is not forth coming with his will, its not gone to probate, no need AND the solicitor is not the executor, so is SHE? can a beneficiary be? OH asked had she the will she said yes and hadnt looked at it yet and he got from that he was not to either.

I have said to him although its not nice he will just HAVE to tell her out straight he wants to see it, if she refuses I dont know how else he can see it as he doesnt have an automatic right.

*NOTE ; he has nothing legal stating the little house is his, it was all done in good faith, he trusted his parents.

Sorry for long winded story, it is one unfortunately, Im just trying to help him by finding out what I can for him.


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## Thirsty (16 Jun 2014)

My summary so....

Money used by son to update/extend family home; no legal agreement in place.

Son lives rent free until son & partner move out some time (years?) later.

Dad dies, Mom inherits family home (assumption based on comment that there's 'no need' for probate and that family home was in joint names)

Mom therefore is free to do what she wishes with family home; which may or may not include selling it.

And yes a beneficiary can be an executor.


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## Bronte (17 Jun 2014)

sks said:


> 9: I didn't feel his family we're going to stick to any original plan,
> 
> 12.  he says its his house she again states its 'her house', to which he replies, 'ok then what about all of the money i put into it??? i have no say now???'' she replies ''you'll get your money when i sell it'
> 
> I have said to him although its not nice he will just HAVE to tell her out straight he wants to see it,


 
9.  Was exactly what seems to have happened and your other half is at fault for not having gone to a solicitor before investing 100K in property he did not own.

12.  It is not his house, it is not helpful to the situation him confronting him mother in this way, think how she must be feeling, all her kids fighting and her husband dead.  Mothers just want the whole sorry mess to be dealt with.  

No you must not demand to see the will, it will only make things worse.  It was a jointly owned house so it passes to her.  

You need legal advice on how to get the 100K back.  If he is willing to bite his tongue, say nothing negative about any sibling, maybe he can persuade his mother to put it in writing that he will get this money when she dies.  

There are more problems with that, she can sell the house, she may need a nursing home in the future that has to be paid out of her assets etc.  

Irish families and money never fail to fight about money, I have cousins and an aunt with much the same mess in relation to houses being built on the homestead.  Nobody is talking and everybody is hating everybody else, my aunt eventually moved out of her family home and is renting somewhere else for peace.    Life is too short for this.  

Fighting with the mother is not going to solve anything.  And she surely doesn't need it at this time of her life.  Everybody needs to take a step back and keep cool heads.  And stop the sibling rivalry.


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## sks (24 Jun 2014)

Thirsty said:


> My summary so....
> 
> Money used by son to update/extend family home; no legal agreement in place.
> 
> ...



Hi there, thank you for your reply...however at the time it was not seen like that, on both sides (my other halfs, and his parents) as it was his parents suggestion he move back and build on(to accommodate them when home visiting from abroad, but they changed their minds on living abroad), he didnt request to move back, this was not a situation that he needed to be accommodated, he had a house.

Yes, the house was jointly owned. It was his father told him, they had done their wills and in it were leaving him the house as his siblings had had their houses funded/ built out of the family business (gotten their inheritance early so to speak)..

With regard being rent free, he built the added on house, he paid for it and furnished it, also took care of the grounds and his parents. Why would rent come into it, he owned the dwelling he lived in. Also maintained the grounds, A LOT of work in it, saving a small fortune, plus maintaining and improving the properties, for time before moving back and all of his time living there.

thank you for confirming, i did think a beneficiary can be executor.


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## sks (24 Jun 2014)

Bronte said:


> 9.  Was exactly what seems to have happened and your other half is at fault for not having gone to a solicitor before investing 100K in property he did not own.
> 
> 12.  It is not his house, it is not helpful to the situation him confronting him mother in this way, think how she must be feeling, all her kids fighting and her husband dead.  Mothers just want the whole sorry mess to be dealt with.
> 
> ...



Hi, thank you for your reply... yes re point 9: i agree.

with regard his stating it is his house, i mean the smaller one he built and paid for , not the main his, his mums.

He went along with this plan as his dad had always said to him they were leaving him the main house, and my other half wanted to go back and raise his family there, however he didnt just expect it. He was happy to invest into it therefore, (his siblings as ive said in above post, had had their house funded/built out of the family business) He worked also in the family business, he feels he worked hard, and states he moved back upon his parents suggestion as he was paying a mortgage elsewhere, and looking after their house and grounds anyway, a maintenance man in a way, while they were away. it made sense for him to move back and continue to take care of it, build on for them for somewhere to come home to for visits, which he was happy to pay fo

Re the sibling, he has not been the aggressor in this situation, the sibling has. Intrusive, intimidating behavior, bizarre behaviors, and manipulative (up to something?)
said sibling has mistreated the parents alot while my OH was there for them. but all of a sudden became golden child during the dads illness. My oh tried to calmly discuss with his mother why he wasnt informed of said sibling moving into his house and she got angry & they argued. 

all in all, a very sad situation, in my opinion hes been made a fool of, his mum is always influenced by money, sibling may be sharing rental income from their own large house next door hence the mother allowing her move into the little house he built.


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## Suud (24 Jun 2014)

sks said:


> Hi there,
> 
> his dad called him in and said 'we' went and did our wills today, im leaving you this house in the will. so it may be in both their wills. but his mam could chang hers!!! relations arent good. but as my other half said which i think kinda makes sense too, 'then what is the point in dad having a will and leaving me the house in it, if it all goes to mam to do with what she will, kinda pointless he even doing that then' i said well maybe its hoped she will 'honour his wishes'.
> 
> We had the same situation where my father left the house to his four daughters in his will and has since died. My mother has left the house equally to all her children in her will. Whilst I have no problem with this I feel it is unfair to my father that he did not get his wish with at least his 50% ownership of the family home. Why do solicitors take instructions from people when they will be overruled if they die first?


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## sks (24 Jun 2014)

Suud said:


> sks said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there,
> ...


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## mf1 (24 Jun 2014)

It is not too late to seek legal advice - but he was very foolish to part with such a big amount of money without safeguarding his position. At worse, that money is gone. 

I expect he does not want to "go legal" but he could, at least , get a clearer picture of where he stands by talking to a solicitor. The solicitor could do a property search to see what they could find out. They could consider legal proceedings now - against his mother, but it's not likely he would do that. They could talk to him about "legitimate expectation" - and whether, in due course, he could maintain any claim against his mother's estate. However, if communication/relationships are as bad as you say, it may be that property transfers will be made before she dies that will leave no estate to squabble over. 

I am still amazed - I should have learnt by now! - at how vicious, mean, devious, manipulative and downright nasty people can be when it comes to money and property. Some people would trample over their nearest and dearest for the value of a deposit on a house. 

mf


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## sks (1 Jul 2014)

mf1 said:


> It is not too late to seek legal advice - but he was very foolish to part with such a big amount of money without safeguarding his position. At worse, that money is gone.
> 
> I expect he does not want to "go legal" but he could, at least , get a clearer picture of where he stands by talking to a solicitor. The solicitor could do a property search to see what they could find out. They could consider legal proceedings now - against his mother, but it's not likely he would do that. They could talk to him about "legitimate expectation" - and whether, in due course, he could maintain any claim against his mother's estate. However, if communication/relationships are as bad as you say, it may be that property transfers will be made before she dies that will leave no estate to squabble over.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply 

I think he has no choice now but to seek legal advice, just to find out where he stands at the end of it all, as he felt it was his childrens security.

Its awfully sad, I feel for him, he is grieving for his dad, and realising that he was made a bit of a fool of. He doesnt want bad feeling, hes the quiet type, he doesnt want to ''go legal'' at all. He trusted his parents, he didnt think his mam would allow someone else into his little house, or would at least without discuss it with him first.

He was even willing to split any rental income with his mam had he rented it out. We didnt want to move, but as our family expanded and it became clearer the original plan (which is why he invested in the property), was conveniently forgotten about. We decided to rent a larger house for the time being, with the view to returning when we raised some money to renovate/redesign inside the house to accommodate our family.

And out of respect for his mam after his dad passing he didnt approach her about renting it out(and we needed the money) as he felt it wasnt the right time, his mam wouldnt want strangers next door.

Then he finds out the troublesome sibling is in it, (we assume with the intention of renting out her own very large house which she has no mortgage on), hes told nothing, nor offered anything! you can bet his mums gaining from it. I mean our appliances are in it & furniture items missing!(dumped? we dont know) our appliances are being used, its like 'finders keepers'! 

Maybe I am naive but I think that is terrible. Couldnt they have thought of his feelings too, he built that invested in the family home, worked his off maintaining the whole place, painting, exterior/interior,gardening,trees,bushes, fixing anything that needed fixing. A maintenance man, for 10 years. And genuinely loved and cared for the place. Hes very hurt.


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