# Advice for FTB worried about amount we are borrowing



## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

Hi guys,

My head is about to blow up over the past couple of days, my husband is the same. As the title states, we are FTB's, put a deposit on a brand new 4 bed semi €440k in Wicklow town & due to sign contracts in the coming days and have loan approval.
I use this site for reference alot and think it's fab but despite hearing about it in the press alot recently & subsequently reading the thread about the MARKET CRASHING. I am terrified about what we are about to do, my husband and I feel that if the housing market was to go belly up we would be one of the first to be destroyed by it, then if it goes the other way we are fine.
I would really appreciate some genuine advice and opinions as we have also discussed ringing our solicitor to cancel & get the deposit back and get a cheaper house (in Co. Wicklow...where?!?) or just hang on and see what happens. We could be making the biggest mistake or the best descision of our lives here. We have 2 children under 4 to consider aswell and we don't want them to suffer if there WAS a downturn.

Right here goes....
Joint income is €76,500 per annum, childcare will be €1,100 from Sept due to one of the kids starting school, we own both our cars outright, currently paying €1,200 p.m rent no probs for over 5 years (sick of it-want our own family home), have good savings which helped us getting mortgage but we have an o/s loan with credit union of €7k,current pay cash €100 p.w no prob, we often pay more to get it down faster. The usual grocery & clothing bills, utility bills, life assurance €180, motor costs incl tax & insurance about €2k per annum.We have a lovely life, financially very secure, only thing missing was our own home. We could not go for a house until this year as we were waiting on hubbie to be made permanent in his job prior to that he was contracting so unreliable income made it hard to get on the property ladder. I have had the same perm job for 4 years now.
We are just worried about it, we are looking at €1,800 per month repayments over 35 years, which we can manage but what if the interest rates rise, we could be totally finished, or are we just panicking. We just don't want to get to the stage where we can't afford to get shoes for the kids or something like that when at present we are saving and don't have to worry about buying things!. Ideally, we would like to have a €1,200 per month mortgage but we would never get a decent house for that price now the way the market is unless we want a shoebox and with 2 small kids we need space and bedrooms etc.
Hubbie's job based in Sandyford, I am in the city centre and kids in creche in Bray so commute will only be an extra 20 mins each way per day so ideal.
What do you think???...are we mad or doing the right thing. I am worried about what COULD happen, then again we want our own family home for our kids, at this stage they deserve it after renting for so long!!.
Thanks in advance....Mag.


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## phoenix_n (28 Jun 2006)

Every one gets nerves when they buy their first property because often that it when it seems the most expensive. So thats normal.

As you state you need a house so i think it is important to have a family home that you and your family can enjoy. Thats what life is all about. 

I would suggest getting the best fixed mortgage that you can get. Fix it for 5 years for example. Its going to be more expensive in the short run but in the long run you should break-even or even gain over a variable mortgage. You may (big may aswell) lose slightly over a variable but how much is peace of mind worth to you.

Go ahead. Fortune favours the brave.


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## suzyann (28 Jun 2006)

I would go with the 440k house - you may regret not doing it - Financially you are better off than most and appear to have a sensible attitude to money and loans - If you go for the smaller house - teh liklihood is that in a few years time you will regret it and to move upwards will cost more in terms of stamp duty etc ...


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## jhegarty (28 Jun 2006)

For the dreaded C***h word.... unless you plan to sell you house it won't matter to you if the prices drop.... I know was told I was mad to buy a house last year becuase of the coming crash , and I know people who go laughed at 5 years ago for spending €200k on a house (worth €370 at last check).... anyone who says that they know when the crash will happen is a fool...


about interest rates rising can you fix the rate... most banks should let you fix for up to 5 years , costs a bit more but gives you peace of mind, and I persume the kids will be out of childcare in 5 years so that will help....

you say you currenlty pay €1200 a month in rent and mortgage is going to be €1800 .... see if you can put €600 a side for the next few months... if it troubles you to do this then you can't afford it... if you can then things look good....


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## techman (28 Jun 2006)

Hi Mag2006,

Understandable to be apprehensive about your move. Looks like you have your figures worked out and you can afford the new home without stretching yourself too much. Now factor in a 2% interest rate increase (stress test). What does your monthly cash flow look like now?

No point in trying to time the market. You want your own family home. If this is the house for you and the figures above look ok - my advice is to go for it. I have been in situations like this before where you think about it too much. Not always a good idea.

techman


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> My head is about to blow up over the past couple of days, my husband is the same. As the title states, we are FTB's, put a deposit on a brand new 4 bed semi €440k in Wicklow town & due to sign contracts in the coming days and have loan approval.


 phew. €1800 a month mortgage, €21600 a year. 


> I feel that if the housing market was to go belly up we would be one of the first to be destroyed by it, then if it goes the other way we are fine.


 you would be trapped if it went down , if it goes up you will not sell because you need somewhere to live anyway 


> I would really appreciate some genuine advice and opinions as we have also discussed ringing our solicitor to cancel & get the deposit back and get a cheaper house (in Co. Wicklow...where?!?) or just hang on and see what happens. We could be making the biggest mistake or the best descision of our lives here. We have 2 children under 4 to consider aswell and we don't want them to suffer if there WAS a downturn.


 and you may have more which could tip ye into cash flow problems. 


> We have a lovely life, financially very secure, only thing missing was our own home. We could not go for a house until this year as we were waiting on hubbie to be made permanent in his job prior to that he was contracting so unreliable income made it hard to get on the property ladder. I have had the same perm job for 4 years now.


 Let me ask you a question. Has the rent risen on ye in the past 5 years (like for like property) if not why not ??


> We are just worried about it, we are looking at €1,800 per month repayments over 35 years, which we can manage but what if the interest rates rise, we could be totally finished, or are we just panicking.


 well run the figures in here 

[broken link removed]  and see what happens when the mortgage rate goes to 6% which IS FEASIBLE , and stays there a while. 

a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 3.75% is €1800 a month 
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 4.50% is €2000 a month 
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 5.00% is €2120 a month 
a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 6.00% is €2400 a month 

What would that €600 drop in ready cash do ???? I have stress tested you 2.25% off 3.75% assumed interest rate now. 

Your kids deserve a home, whether its worth the 35 year sentence and the stress ....I am unsure as are you. If you cannot face the 6% mortgage scenario there then walk away . Honestly

I was in London in 1988 and remember that pure fear drove that market and people stretched to "get on the ladder"  . Do not make a 35 year committment because of fear. Its irrational. Its a bad decision.

What would you think yourself if your REMOVED the fear. 

Do that.


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## CCOVICH (28 Jun 2006)

Can you afford repayments if rates rise by, say, another 2%, or more?

Will fixing your repayments for a number of years ease the strain?


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## nelly (28 Jun 2006)

Reality is people will always want to live in your  area due to close proximity to capital and country. Crash might only dip the prices in your area - but thats just my take on it.


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Reality is people will always want to live in your  area due to close proximity to capital and country. Crash might only dip the prices in your area - but thats just my take on it.



N Wicklow with good transport and schools and stuff would always do better in a _purely hypothetical_ downturn  than more peripheral areas like the back of Kilbeggan or east Carlow ....which is where many FTB's find themselves.


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

440k on a repayment mortgage over 35 years = repaying around 800k in todays money , are you prepared to stay in that house in the event of a housing correction? if not i'd rent for 1200 a month and invest the money saved every month in tax efficient pension.you will have the chance to buy in the future for less in real terms(relative to income and inflation),prices cant keep rising as no young person would be able to buy and the bottom rung be gone and bottom will fall out of the market.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

House values should not come into the equation. Negative equity only becomes a problem when looking to sell. And there is no sign of a crash despite the various scare mongering going on! I would have thought the key question in the post is mortgage affordability. The banks will have stress tested you to a certain point and are obviously happy to lend you the money but only you would know how much rate increases would affect your standard of living for your family. If you want to buy the house and you are not sure how you would cope with rate increases then see can you afford a fixed rate for 5 or 10 years and go with that. 

Good luck anyway.


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

jhegarty said:
			
		

> For the dreaded C***h word.... unless you plan to sell you house it won't matter to you if the prices drop.... I know was told I was mad to buy a house last year becuase of the coming crash , and I know people who go laughed at 5 years ago for spending €200k on a house (worth €370 at last check).... anyone who says that they know when the crash will happen is a fool...
> 
> 
> about interest rates rising can you fix the rate... most banks should let you fix for up to 5 years , costs a bit more but gives you peace of mind, and I persume the kids will be out of childcare in 5 years so that will help....
> ...


Not true,if property market fell the wider economy would be impacted and unemployment would return etc.its not as simple as asset prices rising and falling.


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## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

Thank you all so much for replying to my topic, extremely helpful replies. To answer a few questions (coz when I try use the quote thingy it seems to hate me for some reason!?!).

Yes we do want that particular house, it's gorgeus and a house for life as we will never need more than 4 beds (which answers the more kids question...not a hope pal...had 2 10lb babies...done my bit for mankind!!).

We actually have been living less €500 for a while now to see how we would manage and do most of our shopping in Lidl now barr baby things so trying really hard. We also have €300 per month childrens allowence & the new early childcare scheme which is worth €500 per quarter to us will be great. I get a 10% bonus every July so that's coming and hubbie gets his in April so I really believe we can do this and do it well and still live a good standard. Husband is getting more freaked out than I am, suppose the phone call yesterday to say out loan pack was in solicitors now started the panic and then I read the MARKET CRASH thread and emailed it to him and we got scared of the future. We just want a proper family home, I want to do the kids bedrooms up the way they deserve it to be, get things for the garden for them and be at HOME!!!. You know what I mean!.
Our rent has actually gone up €100 this year but we should be in our new house in October so we cannot wait to skip out of the place!!.  Age wise I am 30 (happened last week...dreadful experience ) & hubbie is 32 so we are still on the young family side.

I think we would be crazy to stop now, house prices in the North Wicklow area continue to rise and it's not like we are going to be remortgaging and making egets of ourselves financially. We do know that hubbies car needs replacing in the next 12 months but we will probably use the credit union or get a personal loan off the bank for that, the bank seem to love us at the moment....scares me. They are such licks!!!!! 

Going to go home and talk to him again this evening and tell him I really want this house and the kids deserve it as well as ourselves and I believe we can do this if we go 3 or 5 years fixed. Still have shaking hands as I type this!!!!!!!!


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## 892896 (28 Jun 2006)

Go for it.
Interest rate rises are a worry -so I'd consider fixing.
Looks like this years budget will be a give-way.
Expect at least 160 Euro per month extra for the two of you
in terms of tax bands etc.

Buying is always a worry for the first time.

To own your own place, make your mark on it etc is far superior to renting.

Good luck.


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## jhegarty (28 Jun 2006)

sound to me like you have your head screwed on the correct way round... and have thing in order... 

best of luck


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> Our rent has actually gone up €100 this year but we should be in our new house in October so we cannot wait to skip out of the place!!.  Age wise I am 30 (happened last week...dreadful experience ) & hubbie is 32 so we are still on the young family side.



Your rent has gone up very little since the years 1999/2000 though, why is that  ???


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

bearishbull said:
			
		

> Not true,if property market fell the wider economy would be impacted and unemployment would return etc.its not as simple as asset prices rising and falling.


 
But then we might all as well all sell up, go live in a bubble and pray nothing bad ever happens to us....Its a family home and if they can afford to buy, they should...

Oh and happy 30th birthday to the OP...


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

2Pack said:
			
		

> Your rent has gone up very little since the years 1999/2000 though, why is that ???


 didnt you know ireland is a special case where rents dont rise in real terms but property prices race ahead of income growth? tut tut you silly man.


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## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

I knew it was right to post my thoughts on this site, nice to see there are some genuine people around willing to be honest. You all have really helped me out descision wise....signing this week and happy about the future and having a real home instead of paying rent to a misery guts!!!.


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> But then we might all as well all sell up, go live in a bubble and pray nothing bad ever happens to us....Its a family home and if they can afford to buy, they should...


if rent was a five hundred euro a month should they still buy at 440k? " if they can afford to buy they should" is the worst financial philosphy i've ever heard.


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## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

Our rent has not gone much over the years up coz we are good tenants, never late with the rent and we have the house immaculet....better than it was when we moved in plus the neighbours love us & have said to the Landlord we are lovely to live beside....which is really nice!. He has actually said to us before that when we do decide to go he will be sorry to see us go! (well I'd say more for the money aswell!)


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## Sarah W (28 Jun 2006)

As others have said any movement in property prices - in either direction - is of no interest unless or until you want to move so that's a red herring. If the house is affordable at +2% rates then you should be OK. Are you both fully funding SSIA's? If so that's an additional €500 towards your cash flow when they mature.

You and your family need a home. If this one fulfills your requirements and you can afford it then go for it.

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> Our rent has not gone much over the years up coz we are good tenants, never late with the rent and we have the house immaculet....better than it was when we moved in plus the neighbours love us & have said to the Landlord we are lovely to live beside....which is really nice!. He has actually said to us before that when we do decide to go he will be sorry to see us go! (well I'd say more for the money aswell!)


 Your rent hasnt gone up because the market has dictated prices and if there was truly a shortage of housing rents would have risen by far far more,im sure your landlord would increase rent if he could but he knows what the market is saying is the price to rent.


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> Our rent has not gone much over the years up coz we are good tenants, never late with the rent and we have the house immaculet....better than it was when we moved in plus the neighbours love us & have said to the Landlord we are lovely to live beside....which is really nice!.


The rents in Dublin have not risen much in years , on average, because the  demand is basically not there.  So why are house prices so high ???? . Either rents go up to long term averages, unlikely with us building so much or house prices come down. or both simultaneously . 

Find me the type of house you rented in 2000 and how much does it cost to rent now Mag ??? 

see http://www.daft.ie/  for the data.


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## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

No, we don't have SSIA's..when that started out I paid little or no attention to it and we were expecting our first child & money was tight so we kept what we had....we had it hard for a number of years so we know what it's like to REALLY struggle. I think that's the main reason we are worried about the new house, but hubbie has great job now in secure multinational so over the past 2 years fortunes have really turned around for us and we have ourselves to thank for making it work too!


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## annR (28 Jun 2006)

Why not print out all these responses . . .if your husband is freaking out it might help to reassure him.
 I agree, if you're stress tested and you want the house, go for it. You sound like you would do your sums and know for sure if you would be able to manage.


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> No, we don't have SSIA's..when that started out I paid little or no attention to it and we were expecting our first child & money was tight so we kept what we had....we had it hard for a number of years so we know what it's like to REALLY struggle. I think that's the main reason we are worried about the new house, but hubbie has great job now in secure multinational so over the past 2 years fortunes have really turned around for us and we have ourselves to thank for making it work too!


many multinationals will be leaving here in years to come ,how would you cope if one of you couldnt work or couldnt find work?


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## Mag2006 (28 Jun 2006)

ah for gods sake, I know the rents have not increased much allright but I think you do help your case if you behave properly where you live & the Landlord knows his propery is not being abused.


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> ah for gods sake, I know the rents have not increased much allright but I think you do help your case if you behave properly where you live & the Landlord knows his propery is not being abused.



Thats why I said go to www.daft.ie for objectivity sake.

Do you not remember how often rents rose in the late 1990s when there WAS a shortage ??


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

bearishbull said:
			
		

> if rent was a five hundred euro a month should they still buy at 440k? " if they can afford to buy they should" is the worst financial philosphy i've ever heard.


 
You can make arguments against the Irish mentality to own property at all costs which I fully subcribe to but the simple fact if that she found a family home that she likes, wants to own a property and is willing to pay the asking price if she can afford it. So why shouldn't she buy?


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

bearishbull said:
			
		

> many multinationals will be leaving here in years to come ,how would you cope if one of you couldnt work or couldnt find work?


 
Maybe you might want to drop bull from your name and stick to bearish!!You really do believe we are on the cust of armageddon don't you..


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> You can make arguments against the Irish mentality to own property at all costs which I fully subcribe to but the simple fact if that she found a family home that she likes, wants to own a property and is willing to pay the asking price if she can afford it. So why shouldn't she buy?


well she has to eat lidl food! i wouldnt give up my organic and marks and spencer food just to own and not rent (i'll rent and save money to invest in a diversified portfolio thats not exposed to the irish property bubble)


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## bearishbull (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> Maybe you might want to drop bull from your name and stick to bearish!!You really do believe we are on the cust of armageddon don't you..


fail to plan ,plan to fail.


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## CCOVICH (28 Jun 2006)

Folks-some of this is better saved for this thread.


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## Thrifty (28 Jun 2006)

Mag2006. I don't think feeling stressed about buying a house worrying about a crash etc is at all unreasonable. I was freaking out about mine when i bought it and then freaked out again when i moved in and discovered any slight problem still thinking should i have bought or not. I kept lookin at the paper noticing certain areas where houses were appreciating much quicker than mine (which hasn't moved that much). I finally relaxed and started to enjoy my home - which is what it is at the end of the day. Once you've bought you can stop looking feverishly at all those property pages and realise why you bought was to have a house for you and your children. BTW i enjoy the site speculating about property prices but it freaks me out too.


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## conor_mc (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> House values should not come into the equation. Negative equity only becomes a problem when looking to sell. And there is no sign of a crash despite the various scare mongering going on! I would have thought the key question in the post is mortgage affordability.


 
Home values don't come into the equation? Why not? "Affordability" is a buzzword bandied about by the banks to keep this property bubble driving forward.

There's a serious risk of negative equity at the moment - alot of the data points to this so sticking your head in the sand because scare-mongerers have been wrong until now is not the way to deal with it. Nobody has a crystal ball, but you have to take this _risk_ into account when the potential cost is massive. Buying now at 440 versus buying at 400 in a years time (10% drop) could cost up to 100k in interest/capital over the life of the mortgage. Likewise, it could cost just as much if prices keep going up and you wait - again, that's a risk that needs to be evaluated.

There's also the risk of negative equity coinciding with some other unfortunate event. I know that, if worse comes to the worst, I'd like the option of selling up and removing the costs of servicing a mortgage if I had to, preferably with a few quid left over to help out. So not having any intention of selling up is very different to being forced to sell up.

Having said all that, OP and hubby seem to have their finances in good order (real-life stress testing their finances, as opposed to theoretically on a bank managers computer) so the decision is mostly about managing these risks. For a start, feeling this is their "house for life" helps - they're not jumping on the bottom rung just for the sake of it. The intangible value to their family life is also a factor - being able to decorate the kids rooms, having their own garden to play in, etc.


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

If a recession leaves them with one €38000 income (half their €76k) and a 6% interest rate mortgage they will have to pay it every month anyway 



> a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 5.00% is €2120 a month
> a 420k mortgage for 35 years at 6.00% is €2400 a month


€2400 x 12 is €29,000 which leaves them €9k a year to live on(before tax and prsi)  and run a car + the big chilters allowances (for the next 2 years only) about €5000 a year and then dropping to €4k and then €3k as they reach 6 years old. 

I trust its not an Interest Only Mortgage Mag because those figures are for repayment mortgages ????

The rent would only be 12 x €1200 or €14400 a year which leaves them hell of a lot  lot better off as it is not tied to the interest rate. 

Oh Well .  Who really knows why people do what they do ???


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

conor_mc said:
			
		

> Home values don't come into the equation? Why not? "Affordability" is a buzzword bandied about by the banks to keep this property bubble driving forward.
> 
> There's a serious risk of negative equity at the moment - alot of the data points to this so sticking your head in the sand because scare-mongerers have been wrong until now is not the way to deal with it.


 
As CCOVICH said this probably isn't  the thread for this discussion but I would be interested in reading what data is suggesting that neagative equity is a real serious risk at the moment. Maybe post it on the relevant thread. It is always a good debatable topic!


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

With that size mortgage I care less about negative equity and more about what happens if they are down to the one income only, even if only for a while.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

2Pack said:
			
		

> With that size mortgage I care less about negative equity and more about what happens if they are down to the one income only, even if only for a while.


 
I bought my place on my own. If I get made redundant, I am screwed. Down to zero income!! Don't regret it though!


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> I bought my place on my own. If I get made redundant, I am screwed. Down to zero income!! Don't regret it though!


Not saying you should Sunny but Mrs 2Pack and I stress tested on the basis that we could survive on the one income if necessary and pull our beloved  offspringers namely , 3pack , 4pack and dear little 5pack out of their childcare . 

We would be left with over €25k a year to live on after all outgoings like loans and mortgages were covered and thats on  the lowest income.


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

2Pack said:
			
		

> Not saying you should Sunny but Mrs 2Pack and I stress tested on the basis that we could survive on the one income if necessary and pull our beloved offspringers namely , 3pack , 4pack and dear little 5pack out of their childcare .
> 
> We would be left with over €25k a year to live on after all outgoings like loans and mortgages were covered and thats on the lowest income.


 
 

All you need is a 6pack now!!! You are right 2Pack on stress testing yourself that way. Especially with a family. I don't particulary like the prospect of being indebted if I got made redundant but luckily my sunny outlook keeps me going and my boss loves me!


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## Guest107 (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> I don't particulary like the prospect of being indebted but luckily my sunny outlook keeps me going!


6 Pack would be a miracle after I got me snip. Lets say he's on the medical profession .

Also remember that childcare in Ireland is Shockingly expensive. A €300k house over 35 years costs €1200 a month mortgage but a child in  creche in an urban area costs €600 so 2 of them cost €1200, same as the mortgage every month

Its cheaper out the country and with childminders but the little sweeties can damage your stress tested wallet if they show up at any stage and should be factored in when housebuying .


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## conor_mc (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> I bought my place on my own. If I get made redundant, I am screwed. Down to zero income!! Don't regret it though!


 
Of course you don't have any regrets. Because you haven't been made redundant and therefore you aren't down to zero income. I'm sure you'd be so fancy-free if you were told you'll get your two weeks statutory per year of service and €165 per week on the dole.

But then, you're not really comparing apples with apples there, are you? 

Single, no regrets.

Couple with young family, struggling to clothe/feed their kids while the mortgage takes up an increasingly significant portion of their income. That's the _risk._

I hope it never comes to pass and wish Mag2006 all the very best with their new home. They're savvy people, they've crunched the numbers, real-life stress tested their living costs. I'm sure they'll put ample insurance in place to protect themselves from such circumstances. But then that will be because they've recognised that there are risks and they'll do their best to nullify them.


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## conor_mc (28 Jun 2006)

Sunny said:
			
		

> As CCOVICH said this probably isn't the thread for this discussion but I would be interested in reading what data is suggesting that neagative equity is a real serious risk at the moment. Maybe post it on the relevant thread. It is always a good debatable topic!


 
Already plenty of it in the thread... you know the one!!!


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## Sunny (28 Jun 2006)

conor_mc said:
			
		

> Of course you don't have any regrets. Because you haven't been made redundant and therefore you aren't down to zero income. I'm sure you'd be so fancy-free if you were told you'll get your two weeks statutory per year of service and €165 per week on the dole.
> 
> But then, you're not really comparing apples with apples there, are you?
> 
> ...


 
Ever hear of single Dads Conor?? Don't presume you know me. I have stress tested myself just like the OP and happy with my situation in this good environment and if it turns. My OWN PERSONAL opinion is that there no point overly worrying about things you can't control like redundancy.


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## sandymount (28 Jun 2006)

If you are forced to do all your shopping in Lidl, you are definitely overstretching yourself, especially on a 35 year mortgage. 

I am guessing that you are borrowing 420K, and if your salaries are 46K and 30K, that is 6 times the main earner plus 4.8 times the second earners.  Banks have become completely reckless in their lending from what I can see.


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## 892896 (29 Jun 2006)

Your Salaries should increase 4% P/A which you should take into account too.


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

Right okay...as regards the silly comments about shopping in Lidl, firstly I do not have the snobby attitude towards it and sorry to rain on your parade but the quality of the majority of the Lidl groceries & cleaning things for the household is surprisingly excellent, so I would suggest that's it's pretty foolish to pay the extra in Tesco or Superquinn for the exact same product. Maybe if you went to Lidl and saw the amount of 06 BMW's etc in the carpark you would see that people are copping on to the rip offs in other stores. I buy all the nappies, wipes and fresh produce and bread, chicken & meat etc in Superquinn still but I buy everything else in Lidl as it does save money & it's good stuff. (their fig rolls are the best!) 

Sandymount, the bank are not being reckless with our application, perhaps you did not read my OP properly, we are both proffesionals and I get another 5% rise next month and hubbie gets his early next year so our incomes will increase annually. I think your attitude to shopping in Lidl is a bit silly really, you need to get out more & shop around!!. BTW we were not "forced" to shop there, gave it a go and it's great...you should try it!. There is one in Wicklow anyway so we wanted to see what it's like and we were impressed!.
Bearishbull- As for the "multinational" he works for leaving the country, I very much doubt it. It's a big international financial institution that is here for years so he is very safe. Again, you may need to get out more!!.

I actually think we have been very sensible with ensuring worst case scenario we can manage and we can. We are signing tomorrow at 4pm so wish us luck. It's going to be amazing, it's a house for life and we will always be able to pay the mortgage which is the important thing. We discussed it at length again last night.

Childcare is expensive and I suppose with our son starting school in September it's going down a fraction or two which helps and we are keeping them in the same creche anyway as we still go that way to get to work and they are happy. I've just changed my hours in order to drop him to school in the mornings and he will be collected by the creche's afterschool club along with his little pals. The baby will still be there fulltime though.

Thrifty...thanks...that's exactly how I've been feeling but once we have moved in we will be chuffed!.
We have taken out a 35 year repayment mortgage, not going interest only.

Again, thanks for the replies. And will some of you stop being snobby about Lidl, my mother nearly passed out when she saw a Lidl bag in my house so I took her shopping with me one day, she's so funny. She actually thought it was fine and picked up a few household things like  loo-roll but she's still not converted. Ah sure after over 20 years using Superquinn and just her and Dad at home now, she's right!!. I just thought it was funny though....my friend used to live in Germany and it was the same attitude there for years (some people would not even stand outside the place  ) and now it's the top supermarket overthere. (don't quote me on that but apparantly it's very popular)


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## frazzled (29 Jun 2006)

Mag - all the best to you and your family. Good luck later today.

Just wanted to ask if you'd tried the Lidl nappies as I find them great for daytime use, especially at the rate creches go through the things.


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## Guest107 (29 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> Sandymount, the bank are not being reckless with our application, perhaps you did not read my OP properly, we are both proffesionals


 You did not pass my stress test . Had the mortgage been c 300k you would have been fine . 

You also never told us the interest rate you pay or the amount or whether its a repayment or interest only so we had to make intelligent assumptions  ???


> I think your attitude to shopping in Lidl is a bit silly really, you need to get out more & shop around!!.


 I agree totally, and don't forget Aldi either which is a tad better overall in MY opinion.

My other main reason for going into Lidl and Aldi (over the others) is that 3pack and 4pack do not see spiderman or superman and bob the feckin builder at eye level in every second aisle and hound us to buy some ****ty spaghetti  hoops for 90c for the rest of the shop. 

Its _a pleasure_ to bring young kids into Lidl and Aldi  because we are not ambushed by the shop all the time and left with "daddy I want xxxx" tantrums for the next hour .

Frankly I would never bring a child under 6 years old into _ANY_ of the normal supermarkets.  _The only safe place_ in Tesco / Dunnes/ Superquinn / Supervalue if you have a 3 or 4 year old with you is the Booze section or the Dog Food Section which do not have kiddy brand ambushes a waiting for you . 

How crazy is that.


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## JohnBoy (29 Jun 2006)

On a more practical note what kind of salary increase(s) can you and your husband look forward to in the coming years? Are you both in careers where you can expect reasonable financial and other progress)?

Since you will need to pay €21,600 in mortgage payments every year are you both content to work for the next 35 years? Do you envisage a time when one of you will be able to cut down on work, and, if the answer to this is yes do you think that you would be able to cope financially on one salary? Otherwise you will both need to work full-time until the mortgage is paid off in full (in 2041!).

You have certainly taken refreshingly honest approach to your finances and according to the numbers that you have supplied us with you can afford to service this debt - but you would not have much (if any) leeway if your circumstances were to change.


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## lff12 (29 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> I use this site for reference alot and think it's fab but despite hearing about it in the press alot recently & subsequently reading the thread about the MARKET CRASHING. I am terrified about what we are about to do, my husband and I feel that if the housing market was to go belly up we would be one of the first to be destroyed by it, then if it goes the other way we are fine.


 
A price crash would only impact you if you intend to sell or trade-up.

Also consider that price crashes are never even phenomena and that the impact on your house could be very small or even nil.  If it occurs of course.

The only frustration would be if similar houses became available at a cheaper price than you paid for yours.  Its all very speculative and who knows what will happen.

The only thing that worries me is that building of standrd 3 bed semis in the Dublin area is practically grinding to a halt.  This could cause prices to rise faster due to shortages and panic buying.


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

2 pack...agree totally with you about Aldi & Lidl....you see Lidl is closer to us and I was in Aldi once and it's excellent but no baby seats on trollies(that was the one on the Belgard rd now) so a bit of no go for me!.
It's much easier to shop with the kids.
Have to run for a few mins, under pressure in work.


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

Sorry about that, getting back to you on our repayments. We are going 1 year fixed at 4% €1797.20 per month and that is over 35 years. We have decided not to go any longer with the fixed rate, this is a good rate that we got and very manageable plus we can still save some some money for the following year.

As regards cutting hours in work, we we are hoping that I can reduce to a 3 day week in the next year, especially with out little fella going to school and more time to spend with baby aswell, they would love it and so would I. We should be able to do it as I would only be paying for 3 days childcare then plus I would still be doing work from home anyway so I would not loose too much salary, fortunatley I have an really nice boss who has been fine about it when I discussed the possibilty with him..well I am the only person in the company that can do my particular job and both times I have been on maternity leave it's been a disaster so he wouldn't want me to leave & I'm happy here anyway.

We will fine, whethere we failed your stress test or not, obviously the bank were happy with us & know that the mortgage will be repaid without a hitch.

Frazzled...tried the Lidl  nappies once, maybe she was a bit small at that stage but she was soaked in them but apparantly the toddler onces are very good so when I get to that stage going to give them a go. I'm a bit funny that way, I stick to huggies & pampers until a certain age and then on goes the sandpaper!!!!LOL!!!.


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## Molly (29 Jun 2006)

mag2006, good luck with the signing today, all the best in your new home.


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

Thanks Molly!.


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## sandymount (29 Jun 2006)

Mag2006, Please do not take offence and I do wish you and family all the best.  If I was in your position I would not go ahead with the purchase. That is my honest opinion.

I do shop in Lidl myself, I also shop in Tesco, Superquinn, Farmers Markets, Spar etc


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## Glenbhoy (29 Jun 2006)

> If you are forced to do all your shopping in Lidl, you are definitely overstretching yourself, especially on a 35 year mortgage.


Lidl is excellent for continental style meats - i'd go there more often but the wait at the tills gets me.
Many people seem to have forgotten that wages tend to increase by approx 5% p.a.
If there is a property crash and multi-nationals go, we're all fecked, so that's not really a consideration.
If the OP is happy staying where she is for a considrable period, then  there's no negative equity.
Childcare will not go on for ever, so that'll be a saving, which could be pumped into the mortgage thus reducing the term.
As for this making/not making financial sense, there is more to life than that, presumably the satisfaction gained from having one's own property within reasonable commuting distance is worth making this move for the OP.  As we know, satisfaction is someting economists find very difficult  to measure.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with people buying a house they're happy to stay in long term.   They just have to adopt a philosophical attitude, come what may ie, it was a good decision for us at the time.  The people who will be hit hardest if prices drop will be the investors  who remortgaged/released equity on their own home to buy an apartment in carrick on shannon (or Dublin) recently, and the majority of FTB's who in their desperation to get on the property ladder have  bought a 1 bedroom apartment with their 4 mates in Ongar.
The biggest downside is that if house prices drop, and the OP then feels that in fact they'd have  prefrred to be in  another  location, there would be regrets.  Since we can't tell, when/if that will happen, time to revert to the bird in the hand philosophy.


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## liteweight (29 Jun 2006)

I agree with you Glenbhoy, no one can have a crystal ball. Well I agree with almost everything...the one about the children growing...yes they do but they never leave................

Good luck in your new home Mag2006, I don't know of any sensible person who was not scared witless on buying first house.


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## Sunny (29 Jun 2006)

Yeah, good luck Mags2006....


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

New twist to this, just before I go out and have a cigarette if I can nab one coz more headaches. Husband has seen a new development in Aughrim. There is one 3 bed left for €335k, so lower repayments, his big thing. I said no way, Aughrim->Bray with kids everyday then my trip into town on the dart no way...sure wouldn't we spend the difference in travel exps. Kids will be away at a ridiculous hour and it's a long drive. Also, we will want to move out of there within 5 years and it could be hard to get out of nomatter how pretty the village is. Son has got into the desired school, can't change now too late in the year and what a stupid distance. I would rather stay where we are and rent with less commute.I want the house in Wicklow and that is the end of it, everything is done now so no backing out. He is worse than I am worrying, I got over it to be honest and was looking forward to teh future. He is ringing and mailing me to explosion stage and I'm now upset and angry and not changing my mind.In the meantime, thanks for all your good wishes guys!


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## Molly (29 Jun 2006)

mag2006,

like you I wanted a particular house, parnter was not so sure to the point of emailing me details of other properties for sale, right up to an hour before we signed the contract.. I dragged him to solicitor, got contract and got my way.. 3 months later and partner has reluctlantly agreed that the house we bought was definately the right one, he even used the excuse that the hotpress was not in the bathroom and therefore there was no where to store towels.  

as a mother of a child going to school in september, easy access to school was our first priority when looking at properties. 

good luck with it..


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## SpatenMan (29 Jun 2006)

Remember Wicklow is on the train line and close to N11. Important if kids end up in University in Dublin etc., higher petrol prices etc. blah blah.
Aughrim is lovely but is a good 15 mins drive to N11/Arklow train station.


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## Guest107 (29 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> New twist to this, just before I go out and have a cigarette if I can nab one coz more headaches. Husband has seen a new development in Aughrim. There is one 3 bed left for €335k, so lower repayments, his big thing. I said no way, Aughrim->Bray with kids everyday then my trip into town on the dart no way...sure wouldn't we spend the difference in travel exps. Kids will be away at a ridiculous hour and it's a long drive.


savage commute , your are totally right. A 335k house in Bray would be great though 


> Also, we will want to move out of there within 5 years and it could be hard to get out of nomatter how pretty the village is. Son has got into the desired school, can't change now too late in the year and what a stupid distance. I would rather stay where we are and rent with less commute.


first time I heard the stay put option, run through it again willya. 


> I want the house in Wicklow and that is the end of it, everything is done now so no backing out.


there is, you thought of Aughrim which means you have doubts.


> He is worse than I am worrying, I got over it to be honest and was looking forward to teh future. He is ringing and mailing me to explosion stage and I'm now upset and angry and not changing my mind.In the meantime, thanks for all your good wishes guys!


he is quite right, your stress test failed on one income when I ran it. 

Be realistic and work out your finances on a 6 month layoff on one income only.


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

2 Pack....we would never need to move out of the house in Wicklow due to the size of the house, location and commute etc. It's the right property to buy. We would go mad in Aughrim, for one husband is the one who hates long drives more than me and he will hate it regardless of his arguements and I can see us changing car coz of it aswell so add €200 pm for new car loan. So it's crazy...just off the phone to him actually and he relucantly agreed with me so no calls being made to solicitor. BTW...I never wanted to go to Augrim and he is the one who spotted the house not me so no doubts.

Molly....your the same as me totally....it's a hard battle though isn't it especially when you know deep down that once you get into the house he will be delighted with the descision made. It's going to be handy enough getting kids to school/creche in the mornings from there, not a big change to their waking up time etc..

Stress test failed or not we will be okay....I have been on unpaid maternity leave twice so we have had to live on one income before for over 6 months and belts had to be tightened but only minor really and we were fine if not better off in a wee way...kept me out of certain shopping centres and oggling kids clothes!!!!!!!!!!


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## Molly (29 Jun 2006)

> your stress test failed on one income when I ran it.


 
Good thing your not lending them the money so....


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## Carpenter (29 Jun 2006)

As for your house purchase decision- we bought a house we could barely afford 7 years ago and are so happy we did. It was very stressful at the time, our incomes were low and banks were a lot more conservative in their lending criteria. But as pointed out earlier a family home is a different financial proposition than thinking about buying an investment property. An investment must return an income, a family home is just that- a home. As any FTB will confirm the first year or two are the most difficult and thereafter it gets a little easier to manage with each passing year (just let inflation do its job). Best of luck with it.


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## CCOVICH (29 Jun 2006)

Folks-there is an exisiting thread on what to buy/what not to buy at Lidl/Aldi-let's leave it at that in this thread.

Thanks.


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## Petal (29 Jun 2006)

Hi Mags, we just bought our house and we were had the same worries and doubts - what if the market crashes, are the repayments too high.... The minute we got the key and I walked into the garden, knowing I can paint everything purple if I want to is so worth it. Been renting for years, not being able to change a thing, always worrried about having the rent increased or having the lease cancelled, never being able to build a nest. Now we've got all that and we're delighted. Who knows what's right or wrong or if the market will crash and if yes by how much... No point living in the future either, just do what feels right now! (And by the way, I think Lidl and Aldi are fab!)


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## Mag2006 (29 Jun 2006)

Ooops..sorry Ccovich..you know yourself when a woman starts ranting!! Petal, totally agree with you, cannot wait for my kids to have a back garden to play in and have their own space and have whatever they want in it, also to get my hands on decorating their bedrooms....whoppie....I already have decided what I am doing with it. As for the Kitchen....MY OWN kitchen to have it the way I want it...no cheapos out of Powecity or dodgy hinges on the presses. The sittingroom...no more bargaintown sofa's or oversized dining tables with sharp corners. We are buying a family home for life and nothing wrong with that so nothing to loose really. Hubbie seems to have chilled now so thank god. I hate smoking!!!!!!!!


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## Ballyman (29 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> I hate smoking!!!!!!!!


 
Give 'em up. Best thing you can ever do for yourself and your children. Ever. Trust me. I'm off them about 8 months and I cannot think of a better decision I have ever made in my entire life and that includes putting €400 on Brave Inca for the champion hurdle at 6/1 last year  

Also, your life insurance will go down, as will your Mortgage protection insurance. Not to mention the ~€2K you will save every year from not buying the things which you can put to the mortgage!!

And your children won't grow up breathing in smoke and becoming addicted to them without even knowing it. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for them. They'll thank you in the long run.

Best of luck with the mortgage, I'm sure all will be fine. I'm in a similar boat myself so I'm hoping all turns out fine with me too.


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## snuffle (29 Jun 2006)

892896 said:
			
		

> Your Salaries should increase 4% P/A which you should take into account too.



I wish someone would tell my employer that  the company is in it's 4th year and not only are they refusing all requests for any increase in wages over the 4 years but they are now clawing back any small perks (such as company mobile) and dumping the work of people who have left in exasperation onto us fools stuck there to save on the wage of replacements!  Celtic tiger and wage rises in line with cost of living expenses my eye

Best of luck with your purchase, mag2006, hope all goes well for you.


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## 892896 (30 Jun 2006)

When I bought my first place, I traded down the car, I cut down on what I ate in the canteen and I cut socialising to a minimum, also had sleepless nights for about 3 months. That was in '97 and after a number of months things improved. Nearly everyone goes through the horrors when buying their first place.


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## Mag2006 (30 Jun 2006)

We don't go out at all, lack of babysitters etc plus we don't really want to go out honestly, baby still a bit young anyway for us to leave her. I love a bottle of wine at home!. So we don't waste any money on a social life, plus we both bring our lunches into work everyday for a long time now so that's another saving.
Well today is the big day and we are both excited about the future but I would be lying if I said we are worry free coz certainly are not but hopefully this time next year we will have got through the first year and be in a good position in life!.
Ballyman...I only smoke the very odd time...usually grab one when I am up the walls over something but never smoked near the kids or in the house. Hubbie non smoker and he goes mad when I have a smoke, don't blame him. I was watching a brillilant programme about smoking on BBC2 last night, anyone see it...put the fear of god into anyone who smokes and would put you off. It's worked on me but the way it was researched and presented was brilliant, they should show it again & again!!!.


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## delboy159 (30 Jun 2006)

I really wish the best of luck to you guys...  Give the bank a shout and see what their "special introductory rate for the first year" is.  If 3.75/3.85 is the going Tracker rate at the moment you might get 3.3 or 3.5% for the first year.  Just to make things a little easier on you guys...

I have a theory on fixed rate mortgages - they are designed to captalise on peoples fear as much as anything else...  An accountant friend of mine working in BOI showed me stats that proved over virtually every 20/25/30 year cycle you were better off on variable rather than fixed mortgages, he also pointed out you could be lucky opting for fixed at certain times etc., but over he majority of the time variable was best....  Fair enough I said, but what about the uncertainty of variable (or tracker rates) if you are willing to pay a little extra for security....  Simple logic kicked in and we came up with this ---- (only for the financially disciplined - which you seem to be)

Get a fixed rate payment option - say 4.5% for 5 years (35 yr mort 400k)
= €1,990 - don't take this mortgage, but use it as a basis
If the current Tracker rate mort is 3.7% = €1,688. - opt for the tracker mortgage......

Now using the fixed as a basis-------

Save the €302 difference every month (into a special account).......
If the Tracker goes up to 3.9% = 1,735., now only save the new difference which is 255.

If your tracker goes to 4.5%, 4.6% or 5% firstly you are in the habit of paying 4.5% a month anyway secondly dip into your savings from the months you made cash.....  It's a way of taking a proportion of the risk out of the sitaution while still not being stuck with a fixed rate.

Also - Lidl and Aldi are great spots, myself and herself always look at each other after we've shopped in Tesco's and go how did we spend soo much on 3/4 bags of basics and the same money in Lidl and you'd need a trolley to carry it all.  Never mind the feeling of being conned after walking out of Marks and Sparks or Superquinn...

Your sensible people, you'll get through tough times (even if you have to extend your mortgage in 5 years from the 30 left on it back to 35 - or take a 3 month break from it etc. - which are all costly options, but get you through....)

Best of luck - let me know how you get on.


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## Smi1er (30 Jun 2006)

Wow. What a thread! My thoughts...

You have thought this out well. Some comments

The bank have been reckless in lending you the money (in multiples of your salaries)
The bank know the repayments will be made - Not if you lose your job(s) - but then they don't care because they have a charge on your home
You were worried if rates go up. You used the wrong word, Not if, but when
House crash doesn't make a jot of difference if you're not selling
Gee! You're going to be old when the mortgage is paid off
From posts you have made you weren't really looking for peoples comments, just reassurance. You have thought it out well, if not totally balanced.

If you're happy with it then go for it.


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## Mag2006 (30 Jun 2006)

Thanks Delboy, really good post which I am printing off and going to phone the bank again today about the tracker....we were thinking about it the other day actually. It's much easier I have found just going direct to the bank without a broken coz we were going to go the broker route but found him a terrible headwrecker & he made one big mistake on us which nearly cost us mortgage approval so got rid of him. When we went to our own bank we god the nod the following day from them and they have been very professional I have to say and I was prepared for the complete opposite.
I don't know if we can change our minds on the chosen rate though now as loan offer complete and signing in an hour and a half. I'll ring them.


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## Mag2006 (30 Jun 2006)

The bank have been reckless in lending you the money (in multiples of your salaries)
I disagree here, we are earning good salaries which increase every year and we have excellent earning potential in our jobs so that was a big factor with mortgage application.


The bank know the repayments will be made - Not if you lose your job(s) - but then they don't care because they have a charge on your home
They will never get my home-never ever, not stupid enough to let that happen.

You were worried if rates go up. You used the wrong word, Not if, but when
Yes- but we will always have options.

Gee! You're going to be old when the mortgage is paid off
If we stick to 35 years yes but we are still young enough to make the money to shorten our mortgage at some stage as we both don't want to still have a mortgage in our 50's.



			
				Smi1er said:
			
		

> From posts you have made you weren't really looking for peoples comments, just reassurance. You have thought it out well, if not totally balanced.


 
-Thanks, I feel we have been very sensible and realistic in planning this and left no stone unturned so I can't see this blowing up in our faces at any stage.


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## nt00deep (30 Jun 2006)

Quick point on 


> we were going to go the broker route but found him a terrible headwrecker & he made one big mistake on us which nearly cost us mortgage approval


 
I used a broker to find the best deal and do the introductions.  Once I had a good deal, I did not speak to the broker again until it was time to pick up my allocation from him towards legal fees (long story).  Kept him out of the logistics that affect accuracy and timing of loan cheque and just dealt with the bank directly at that stage.

Worked v.well.


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## sandymount (30 Jun 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> The bank have been reckless in lending you the money (in multiples of your salaries)
> I disagree here, we are earning good salaries which increase every year and we have excellent earning potential in our jobs so that was a big factor with mortgage application.



It's either 6 times salary is reckless or it is not. Earning a high or low salary does not come into it when working out a multipe . Eventhough earning a high salary is better as you will have greater flexibilty of disposible income.


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## Swallows (30 Jun 2006)

Mag 2006, if you want to buy your own home you have to be prepared to make some sacrifices. That might include not having the same standard of living that you enjoy now. We can't have it every way. When we bought our first home (London) a long time ago, we could only afford sausages for dinner. I remember wanting to go to Chessington zoo one sunday and we couldn't afford the £15 that it cost then for three of us to go in.Everything went to pay the mortgage. But this doesn't last and after the first few years you begin to get ahead. Just dont expect to still have everything the same as it is now. You always need to have two months mortgage put away just in case of an emergency, one of you might be sick or some other problem. That is my advice. I say go for it, But!!! be realistic in where you have to economise. It probably wont hurt the kids either if they can't have new shoes or whatever. Cut back on what you can and put the money away.  After the first few years you can probably sell and move if you need to.Its unlikely there will be much of a crash in your part of the country and by then you should have equity in your house. Good Luck.


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## Mag2006 (3 Jul 2006)

Anyone listening to the news this morning..very interesting. According to the Auctioneers Association the "boom" has come to an end and there are fewer viewings of properties and prices are being dropped....about time I think as it's a total joke people paying €320k for a 3 bed house in Arklow and commuting plus Dublin prices are ridiculous.
Well we signed on Friday, all happy, completion date 17th October and we put a deposit on dining room table & chairs, sofa & beds on Saturday. Then celebrated with a chicken chow mein from the chinese & a bottle of wine (€5.99) between us!!!...we laughed at ourselves though!!!. It's a nice feeling we must admit!!.


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## soma (3 Jul 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> ..about time I think as it's a total joke people paying €320k for a 3 bed house in Arklow and commuting plus Dublin prices are ridiculous.


With all due respect Mag, I find paying 440k for a "4 bed semi €440k in Wicklow town" equally ridiculous. The country has lost all concept of the value of several hundred thousand euro.


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## Mag2006 (3 Jul 2006)

I agree, it's a mad price but it's our descision and it's a better location. We are lucky that we can buy such a house and the future is bright there. The majority of people I know that live in Arklow commute daily and it's tough going plus paying that for a house. The childcare fees down there are not cheaper either, was chatting to a friend who is looking down there & in Gorey at the moment and it's not a big saving at all. I would have thought is would have been a considerable difference. I totally blame the Estate Agents, their marketing and selling attitude has things the way they are. I recentley saw a house for sale in a certain area advertised on myhome.ie, thing is it actually was not on the market yet and they had "register your interest now" and a ridiculous price for a 3 bed at 943 sq foot!!. As long as they keep marketing like this,people are going to still panic buy and I can understand why. It's so unfair on FTB's who are on a tight budget.


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## Guest107 (3 Jul 2006)

Mag2006 said:
			
		

> I totally blame the Estate Agents, their marketing and selling attitude has things the way they are. I recentley saw a house for sale in a certain area advertised on myhome.ie, thing is it actually was not on the market yet and they had "register your interest now" and a ridiculous price for a 3 bed at 943 sq foot!!. As long as they keep marketing like this,people are going to still panic buy and I can understand why. It's so unfair on FTB's who are on a tight budget.


I blame the buyers as well as the EAs. The buyers can analyse the hard economic data and make their own minds up objectively. Many are being panicked into irrational herd like behaviour nowadays and simply will not listen to advice . 

The 440k house in N Wicklow or Mid Wicklow  is not  likely to fall as much in value in % terms as the 330k house in S Wicklow IF there is a downturn  .  I will say that much .


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## CCOVICH (3 Jul 2006)

Why blame salespeople-that's their job. 

This is getting off topic.


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