# Speeding penalty point Appeal advice



## Claimsman (30 Jan 2014)

I was driving on the N81 this afternoon at about 90kph. I saw an unmarked speed Van parked to the left, checked my speed and as I was not speeding, I did not need to slow down. However, as I passed this I saw movement from the camera and about 1km later, I realised that I had been in a 60Km zone rather than a 100. I fully expect to get a fine in the post.

I had no knowledge that I was in a 60 zone at the time so on my return visit, I looked around to see how I had missed the 60 sign. I then saw that the sign was virtually fully obscured by over growing vegetation and it was very difficult to see as I drove into the 60 zone from the 100 zone ( I re drove the route to see how I had missed the sign). 

I have taken copious photographs showing how the vegetation obscures the view of the sign and I even did a video on my phone which shows as I enter the 60 km zone that this sign is visible for no more than one second and is easily missed even if a mirror is being checked. I do not speed, I have no penalty points and I take great pride in this.

My immediate view to is appeal this to court ( assuming I get the penalty notice in the post). However, I am somewhat filled with dread at the idea that a judge would be totally dismissive of my appeal and I could find myself with 4 points and a much larger fine. Don't get me wrong, if the sign was visible and it was a fair cop, I would pay up and not quibble. However, when a sign is obscured and there are no other signs in the zone denoting the speed limit, then it is hard not to feel that it is unfair.

Has anybody any advise or experience in something like this? Your input would be appreciated.


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## T McGibney (31 Jan 2014)

The first thing I would do is to remove the location and other specific details you have posted above, in case their publication prejudices your case. (I presume you don't want someone else borrowing your excuse before you get a chance to use it.) Otherwise your evidence seems to be strong and I wouldn't be shy in outlining this to the penalty points people if you end up receiving a notice.


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## Guns N Roses (31 Jan 2014)

Claimsman said:


> and I even did a video on my phone which shows as I enter the 60 km zone that this sign is visible for no more than one second and is easily missed even if a mirror is being checked.


 
I would not be relying on using this video as evidence considering you took it when you were also driving which I'm sure could be interpreted by the Authorities as dangerous driving.

I can't see a Judge being too impressed with this behaviour.


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## 44brendan (31 Jan 2014)

Nonsense!!! There would be no inference by a Court that a video was taken while driving!!!


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## dereko1969 (31 Jan 2014)

44brendan said:


> Nonsense!!! There would be no inference by a Court that a video was taken while driving!!!


 
From the description of how it was taken it would be fairly easy to deduce that it was taken by the driver (angle of view, whether passenger space visible etc).


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## Guns N Roses (31 Jan 2014)

T McGibney said:


> Otherwise your evidence seems to be strong and I wouldn't be shy in outlining this to the penalty points people if you end up receiving a notice.


 
The operators of the fixed notice penalty system will not entertain you. Their view will be if you do no not pay they will foward it on to the courts.

You will have an oppurtunity to appeal the charge in court. If you lose, your penelty points will be doubled and the Judge may increase the fine to a max of €1,000 if I remember correctly.

Bear in mind it could be quite some time before you receive a summons if any at all.

I myself neglected to pay a fixed notice speeding fine over 2 years ago and I still haven't received a summons yet.


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## Claimsman (31 Jan 2014)

I have viewed photographs taken of the area and it is clear from any bodies perspective that the 60km sign is obstructed. Whilst I have the video footage, the photographs give a better view. I have also carried out some research on signs and the department of transport have a publication that stipulates the distance at which there should be a clear uninstructed view of the sign. Entering into a 60km zone, it should be visible without obstruction for, I think it is 50/70 meters....in my case, it is visible for a most 20m. On the evidence of my photographs ( which are dated the same day of the anticipated speeding offence) I believe a have a solid defence. Let's hope the judge thinks like wise.

Btw, my phone for the video is in a case that I taped to the top of the steering wheel... So it was hands free videoing


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## Orga (31 Jan 2014)

An independent view would also be helpful on this matter. For example, should you be in a position to ask, say, a garda to examine the situation and offer their opinion in an affidavit then that would bolster your case.


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## RainyDay (1 Feb 2014)

Claimsman said:


> Btw, my phone for the video is in a case that I taped to the top of the steering wheel... So it was hands free videoing


I wouldn't shout too much about taping things to your steering wheel, if I were you.


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