# Has anyone a few years of experience with geothermal?



## mercury1 (14 Jan 2009)

Hi, 
Just wondering if anyone who has had geothermal installed for a few years could comment on it? In middle of new build and finding it very difficult to make final decision on heating system. Just wondering approx how much it costs to heat the house annually (2800sqft approx)? And if you think the initial outlay of money is worth it in the long run?
Thanks in advance


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## jmrc (14 Jan 2009)

Hi, 
Been running borehole geothermal for 2 years now, with underfloor heating and must say we are very happy with it. House is about the same size (2500sqft approx). Did make sure to have passive energy (windows facing the sun) and plenty of insulation when we built. Also important to have nightsaver installed. We still habe to sit down the calculations on the ESB bills. 
For the convenience of not having 2 or 3 bills and an oil tank in the back garden I think it is well worth it IMO. 
House is always nice and warm too. 
Just to clarify, it's a dormer with ufh upstairs also. Very responsive too, no waiting 1-3 days for the heating to come up. I'd say 2-3 hours and you would see the difference in temps in the rooms. 

There has been a lot of changes in the technology even in the 2 years since we put it in, digital stats now make it even more efficient . 

Best of luck however you decide. 
(just a by-the-way ask your eleci to run out a lenght of coax to where you think you might put up your TV arial or sat dish. before the roof goes on. Just an idea)


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## inchbyinch (14 Jan 2009)

Hi,

If you use the search service(look for ufh and geothermal) you will find some of the threads actually address this point. It will probably be difficult for you to ascertain whether it is good value or not as I am guessing this i what you are trying to do.

My ideas would be
-It does not free you from a dependance on fossil fuels (90% of Irish Electrcicty is produced from Fossil Fuels) 
-It may given the correct conditions give you 3.5-4 times the amount of heat out as the amount of electricity it takes in but electricity in itself is only about 25-35% efficient in terms of energy usage so you are balancing the system in terms of the amount of gas/oil used to produce the same heat.
In terms of future proofing your home I suggest you insulate to the very highest standards as this will prevent you needing heat at all. also consider that as our climate is predicted to get more extreme then getting the correct solar gain is very important.

rgds
inchy


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## pops (14 Jan 2009)

We've been using borehole geothermal for 2 years in an 1800 sq. ft house with ufh downstairs only.  There are radiators upstairs but as the house is designed with an open landing the rads. are rarely used.  We also have a wood pellet stove for additional space heating.  We also have a heat recovery ventilation system which helps keep the house ventilated without losing heat.

 Overall I would say that it works for us, although there have been a few hiccups.  Our house is designed to make the most of solar gain and insulated as tightly as we could.  Our bill for the year including water, heating and general household usage comes to about €1200 max.  The temperature averages 20 degrees in the winter and warmer obviously in the Summer.

Install solar panels if you can afford it, we still have to get around to this and it will help reduce bills further.


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## DavyJones (14 Jan 2009)

pops said:


> We've been using borehole geothermal for 2 years in an 1800 sq. ft house with ufh downstairs only.  There are radiators upstairs but as the house is designed with an open landing the rads. are rarely used.  We also have a wood pellet stove for additional space heating.  We also have a heat recovery ventilation system which helps keep the house ventilated without losing heat.
> 
> Overall I would say that it works for us, although there have been a few hiccups.  Our house is designed to make the most of solar gain and insulated as tightly as we could.  Our bill for the year including water, heating and general household usage comes to about €1200 max.  The temperature averages 20 degrees in the winter and warmer obviously in the Summer.
> 
> Install solar panels if you can afford it, we still have to get around to this and it will help reduce bills further.




Thats very interesting.

  your total heating bill is about  €100 a month?

How much did your heating system inc HRV cost to install?


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## pops (17 Jan 2009)

The HRV was about €5,000 and the geothermal was approx. €10,000 - including drilling.

The heating was off for nearly 6 months this year so the bills come out at about €1200.  Like I said this includes all electricity usage for a family of 5.


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## MacTheKnife1 (17 Jan 2009)

pops said:


> The HRV was about €5,000 and the geothermal was approx. €10,000 - including drilling.
> 
> The heating was off for nearly 6 months this year so the bills come out at about €1200.  Like I said this includes all electricity usage for a family of 5.



pops - thanks for the post - sounds great.

I am guessing - but you must have massive insulation and super windows (low E, 16mm, argon etc etc). 

Also open plan really helps with lighting costs. Woudl be interested to hear more form your hosue design. 1200 is cheap. Do you leave thje HRV on all day or do you switch it off when you leave the hosue. Are you using CFLs....


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## z109 (17 Jan 2009)

I have a ground source heat pump for three years. With the collector pipes buried in the ground. My heating averages at most 900 a year (using todays electricity prices) and h/w 300 a year (based on the minimum the night-rate could be doing - 1/3). The heating is off from March to October, but the h/w is the annual figure.

180 sqm house. Rationel double glazed windows (so good, but nothing special). Rockwool and bubble wrap in the walls (timber frame). A log stove in the living room. Big windows to the south which helps on sunny days, but really sucks the heat out on days like today with a cold wind.


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## DavyJones (17 Jan 2009)

yoganmahew said:


> I have a ground source heat pump for three years. With the collector pipes buried in the ground. My heating averages at most 900 a year (using todays electricity prices) and h/w 300 a year (based on the minimum the night-rate could be doing - 1/3). The heating is off from March to October, but the h/w is the annual figure.
> 
> 180 sqm house. Rationel double glazed windows (so good, but nothing special). Rockwool and bubble wrap in the walls (timber frame). A log stove in the living room. Big windows to the south which helps on sunny days, but really sucks the heat out on days like today with a cold wind.




Thats good.

Would you change anything if you were to build the same house again?

How much was the installation of geo and UFH?


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## z109 (17 Jan 2009)

DavyJones said:


> Thats good.
> 
> Would you change anything if you were to build the same house again?
> 
> How much was the installation of geo and UFH?


I wouldn't use the guy I used to also do the house plumbing! I also wouldn't use him to do the Geo again!

As a borehole seems to be cheaper to run, I'd consider getting that done. Having said that, getting boreholes dug a few years ago was really expensive. 

My sitting room shares a wall with my kitchen. The wood burning stove is on that sitting room wall. I'd have gotten one with a back boiler and stuck a couple of blower radiators under the kitchen units. But that's nothing to do with the geo!

I honestly can't remember how much it was, I think it worked out at around 15k for each bit (installation and bits). I would hope it has come down now, as I was building near the peak!


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## pops (21 Jan 2009)

Hi mactheknife,
HRV is on all day as I work from home.  All lights incl. spots are cfl.  Windows are rationel low-e, argon filled etc.    All the insulation except the cavity one, was fitted by ourselves which meant we were scrupulous about it.  
The house was designed not to have any corridors as we thought that was a waste of heat.  We kept the design as small as we could for cost reasons, but also because we have a clause in our planning which means we would find it difficult to be able to sell - so we don't want to be rattling around a large cold house in our dotage!
Wood Pellet stove is also very good and not expensive at all to run as a quicker way of getting the house warm.


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## Shawady (21 Jan 2009)

Has anyone got any experience of installing one of these systems in a standard 3 bed home.
I have oil heating at the moment but as the burner is in the garage, which we plan on converting, we are planning on changing our heating system.
I have been looking into geothermal heating but all posts I've read seem to apply to new builds only.
Anyone with this system think it could be suitable for a house already built?
Any comments appreciated.


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## dj01 (21 Jan 2009)

yoganmahew said:


> I have a ground source heat pump for three years. With the collector pipes buried in the ground. My heating averages at most 900 a year (using todays electricity prices) and h/w 300 a year (based on the minimum the night-rate could be doing - 1/3). The heating is off from March to October, but the h/w is the annual figure.
> 
> 180 sqm house. Rationel double glazed windows (so good, but nothing special). Rockwool and bubble wrap in the walls (timber frame). A log stove in the living room. Big windows to the south which helps on sunny days, but really sucks the heat out on days like today with a cold wind.



hi yoganmahew,

interesting to hear your experiences with geothermal. We've recently completed our build and installed an air source heat pump. Was interested when you said the heating is off from March to Oct, does the pump not run constantly? As our pump is always running, allbeit with a high and then low setback temp settings that are controlled via a programmable timer.

Can you shut off the pump alltogether so it's not actually running at all?

thanks
dj


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