# give away assets for non contributory pension



## laila (15 Jun 2007)

My father was refused the non contributory pension because he owned a second property and this was assessed against him even though it did not provide an income and he had being trying to sell it for years. Happily it was sold recently and he has kept a small amount for himself and divided the rest between two of his sons. The property was a small commercial premises in the country and as these two sons had left school early and worked almost without salary for between 10-15 years it was always viewed as their inheritance. I am not talking huge amounts of money here - in the region of 140,000 each. 

My question is if my dad now reapplies for the non contributory pension how will they view the fact that he gave away money??

His current income is a UK pension worth approx 60 euro a week. He would be looking for the non contributory pension to make up the difference.

Any advice appreciated.


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## ClubMan (15 Jun 2007)

laila said:


> I am not talking huge amounts of money here - in the region of 140,000 each.


You are joking, right?  


> My question is if my dad now reapplies for the non contributory pension how will they view the fact that he gave away money??


Why would he not keep the money and live off that as he'd probably be better off?


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## laila (15 Jun 2007)

not joking. my question is will giving away an asset affect the means test for the non contributory pension?


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## ClubMan (15 Jun 2007)

Nice that €140K is small change to you.

I presume that he can give the money away and reapply and be means tested again. Presumably as long as he has hard evidence that the transfer of assets was done and was at arms length (i.e. not a paper/fake transaction to defraud _Welfare_) then if he qualifies otherwise then he'll get the pension.


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## laila (16 Jun 2007)

Am aware that amounts of money are all relative. It was not a fake transfer to defraud welfare. Please consider that you do not know all the family circumstances involved and confine yourself to the question and drop the tone of personal criticism please.


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## ClubMan (16 Jun 2007)

Please read my posts a bit more carefully. I did not say that it was/may be a fake/fraudulent transaction - I said that as long as he had evidence to show that this was not the case then it would help with any new claim. If you don't like getting a range of opinions/comments on your query then maybe you should steer clear of public discussion forums such as this...


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## Murt10 (16 Jun 2007)

From the Departments website

"If you or your spouse or partner deprive yourselves of an income or property (including money) to qualify for State Pension (Non-Contributory) or to qualify for this pension at a higher rate, we will include that income or property in the means test."


http://www.welfare.ie/publications/sw116.html


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## ClubMan (16 Jun 2007)

Bang goes that idea so. Perhaps the individual might want to live off the loot after all?


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## woods (17 Jun 2007)

Perhaps if the 2 sons had a moral claim to the property as you have stated then a legal case could be made for giving it to them.
Do not give up on this without trying.


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## coleen (17 Jun 2007)

I do know someone who gave a house to a relative and got the full pension afterwards so worth a try!


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## CCOVICH (17 Jun 2007)

coleen said:


> I do know someone who gave a house to a relative and got the full pension afterwards so worth a try!



Did they declare to Social Welfare that they had done this?


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## ClubMan (17 Jun 2007)

woods said:


> Perhaps if the 2 sons had a moral claim to the property


What is a "moral claim"?


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## ClubMan (17 Jun 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> Did they declare to Social Welfare that they had done this?


And _Revenue _in case there were tax issues arising from the transfer?


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## coleen (17 Jun 2007)

as far as I am aware it was declared as this person had been previously refused a pension


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2007)

Well if someone sold a property and then lived off the proceeds and spent it very quickly (lived the high life for a couple of years) then they would be eligible for a pension surely?  Some people are not good with large lump sums and in this case the OP doesn't even consider 140K to be large so the Dad could have gone through it in no time!  How would welfare be able to prove that it was done on purpose.


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## murp (21 Jun 2007)

Laila

I am not an expert in the area of social welfare benefits but from what you have provided as details of you fathers situation I would think you have a strong case to argue with social welfare in respect of your father now being eligable for a non contributory pension.

As stated by the Department 

"If you or your spouse or partner deprive yourselves of an income or property (including money) to qualify for State Pension (Non-Contributory) or to qualify for this pension at a higher rate, we will include that income or property in the means test."

This goes to motive, from what you have stated the motive here was not to deceive welfare, rather it was to provide for your brothers who had gone with little or no salary for the past number of years in anticipation of receiving this commercial property as an inheritance.  

It may take a lot of arguing with Welfare but I would think from what you have said that it is potentially a win-able case.


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