# Penalty points Alan Shatter and Mick Wallace



## Bronte (17 May 2013)

Why would the Minister for Justice know of a specific car incident involving Mick Wallace. And remember it. Does he know of all traffic incidents involving all citizens, or of all politicians, or of all opposition politicians, or of all opposition politicians that one is going to debate on the national airwaves. 

Is this not an abuse of power. And beneth the office of Minister for Justice. 

And while I'm at it. I'm delighted to hear that there is complete honesty and transparenty is the 'disappearance/loss' of penalty points in the Garda Pulse system. Great to know how excellent and uncorrupt the boys in blue are. They are only brillant at investigating - themselves. Wonderful stuff.


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## blueband (17 May 2013)

its very sinister how he knew alright, and very stupid to bring it up on a live tv show. 
thats if its true, if not it makes it even worse on the ministers part!


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## jhegarty (17 May 2013)

I didn't see the interview.

What did he know ?


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## Delboy (17 May 2013)

Perhaps a Guard who knew of the incident fed up with the hypocrisy of the 'socialist' Inpdendent TD's went straight to Shatter and told him
We don't know how he found out


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## Bronte (17 May 2013)

Delboy said:


> Perhaps a Guard who knew of the incident fed up with the hypocrisy of the 'socialist' Inpdendent TD's went straight to Shatter and told him
> We don't know how he found out


 
Well that doesn't make sense to me. Do individual gardai go directly to the Minister for Justice, no way. But if it wasn't even an official case, as in Wallace was just given a warning on the spot it wouldn't even go in the Gardai notebook, never mind the offical book/system. So how does this actual events of sucha  trivial nature, and all event, relation to politicians, end up on the Minister for Justice's desk. And does he read all of them. 

It's a resigning matter as far as I'm concerned and the Dept of Justice have a lot more questions to answer.

Do Ministers keep a catelogue of misdemeanors of opposition politicians?  I'm very surprised at Shatter.  Justice must be seen to be done etc and he should know more than most.


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## ajapale (17 May 2013)

Whats this thread about? I feel like Ive missed the first ten minutes of an episode of Law & Order: Eire !


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## Bronte (17 May 2013)

Sorry, got a phone call from Ireland from a relation who said there was a programe with Alan Shatter and Mick Wallace and that Shatter was able to on air, highlight the fact that Wallace was let off scott fee on something to do with driving while on the phone.  But it was a case of the gardai just giving Wallace a warning, and not a case of him being put on the pulse and having it wiped. 

The point I'm making is how come Shatter a) knew this story b) brought up such a matter in public c) who told him d) why e) for whose benefit f) shouldn't Shatter know better g) shouldn't the Min for Justice of all people and who is a legally trained individual know a LOT better h) is it not an abuse of the office etc etc.  This is serious stuff


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## ajapale (17 May 2013)

OK but if we dont link to some kind of primary source the discussion will just run into the sand.


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## ajapale (17 May 2013)

OK, thanks.

_Shatter_ says _Wallace_ escaped penalty points thanks to 'garda discretion'


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## NOAH (19 May 2013)

I'd say that this episode will demonstrate once and for all that the government we have is business as usual , ie just like all the rest, he wont resign, he wont be sacked and he will top the pole at the next election.

But one day we can only hope that eventually people will come to their senses and realise that governments in ireland are there for one reason and its not for the people.


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## ajapale (19 May 2013)

NOAH said:


> .. he will top the pole...


 ouch!


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## Setanta12 (19 May 2013)

I wouldn't be a natural Government supporter but do like to Shatter in his battles - soem are misguided, but on the whole we see him working.

Re this kerfuffle; the role of the Independents is a sorry affair.    Wallace and Ming taking umbrage on behalf of people when they've benefited from this corruption themselves.  Ming even writing to the Minister asking for an investigation into how his own points were written off - and then refusing to be interviewed when this investigation starts up!  You couldn't make it up!

As for Wallace.  Does he have any credibility left ?  I do dislike Shatter doing what he did here -  but if he is correct, then Wallace deserves to be hounded out by Wexford people at the next GE.


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## blueband (19 May 2013)

shatter should be made resigh for this, he is a disgrace to the office he holds.......but will that happen?.......in england yes, here no chance!


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## Black Sheep (19 May 2013)

Isn't this just a follow up of the Penalty points investigation shambles. Garda investigating Garda.

Rumbles on and on trading insults until the next crisis takes over our front pages


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## T McGibney (20 May 2013)

Kildavin said:


> I do dislike Shatter doing what he did here -  but if he is correct, then Wallace deserves to be hounded out by Wexford people at the next GE.



Why, exactly?


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## One (20 May 2013)

If it is true, then I think the Minister was right to bring it up.


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## Latrade (20 May 2013)

One said:


> If it is true, then I think the Minister was right to bring it up.


 
I agree with there being a justification with regards to demonstrating hypocrisy, but I don't think it does. I see the issue raised by Wallace et al and the specific issue raised by Shatter as being completely different. However, that's not really the question people have. What people want to know is how did Shatter find out.
Unlike the specifics of what Wallace had been talking about; alleging TDs actually receiving a fixed penalty notice and then through connections getting it quashed, the circumstances Shatter was talking about hadn't even gone that far. He claims Wallace was stopped, but then let off without any action being taken, so it never even entered any official record. Wallace didn't write to anyone to get points quashed, he was stopped and the garda decided there and then to not take any action. 
So with what Wallace is alleging, there is a paper trail, with what Shatter is alleging, there’s nothing. Someone has obvious reported a story up the chain of command to him maliciously. So how did the Minister for Justice come by the information and why did he think it ok to present the information on television?
I'll be honest, that's happened to me a couple of times, not for any major offence, but the garda gave me a bit of a lecture and let me go on my way. I'm not a TD, I have no influence, it's just a garda using his discretion.


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## demoivre (20 May 2013)

One said:


> If it is true, then I think the Minister was right to bring it up.



On mature recollection it is! For me it's utterly bizarre that Shatter would have this information and even more bizarre that he would bring it up on Prime Time given the obvious questions that would ensue.


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## Delboy (20 May 2013)

Maybe it was the Tuscan air over the weekend that helped Mick recall the incident... he spent the weekend at his, sorry I mean his brother's, vineyard!!!

Shatter was stupid (arrogant as usual) to bring it up. And now FG are trying to spin it as a matter of public interest as Wallace is part of the whole Penalty Points-gate.
Wallace is screaming about a 'corrupt' system that he himself has benefited from but forgot to mention that at the outset!

Shatter probably found out through the chain of command when the whole points thing broke and the word got out within the force 'there that Wallace fella calling us corrupt, and sure did'nt X and Y stop him only 3 weeks ago and let him off with a verbal warning for using his phone'. It spread up the ranks from there and maybe some advisor/civil servant got word of it and passed it on.

So all are now trying to score political points and I have zero sympathy for any of them. They're all an embarrassment


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## cork (20 May 2013)

When did J. Edger Hoover join FG?

I think this is very serious both for Shatter and Enda Kenny.

How can Enda Kenny stand behind this guy?

The Labour Party are not relevant anymore.

Labour are glorified lap dogs.

If Labour were in opposition - they'd be shouting from the roof tops.

Where is Joan Burton?


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## Bronte (21 May 2013)

Delboy said:


> Wallace is screaming about a 'corrupt' system that he himself has benefited from but forgot to mention that at the outset!


 
This is not true. Wallace is correct, the system is corrupt. It is corrupt that people get penalty points and get them wiped because they are a judge, a politician, a gardai or a friend of a garda. 

The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that. Gardai do this all the time and it's fair enough. What is wrong is people who have been given penalty points have them wiped. What is wrong is gardai investigation themselves on this and claiming everything is hunky dory. It is not.

There are circumstances where penalty points should be dropped, duplication, error or a serious reason for it and I don't put going to funerals as a serious reason, more like a spurious reason. In genuine cases it should be documented, why and by who penalty points are dropped. A transparent open system that can be checked and verified and we're far from that. 

Could someone explain to me why a private citizen, even if he is a TD, should have a minor incident, or no relevance whatsoever, have his particular transgression abused by the Minister for Justice for political gain only. 

The incident was so minor to Wallace that he couldn't even recall it and it is quite clear that he was not 'stopped' by the gardai at all.

And for the record I have always admired Shatter despite his arrogance.  And I'd rather he didn't have to resign but it is a resigning matter as far as I'm concerned.


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## Bronte (21 May 2013)

cork said:


> When did J. Edger Hoover join FG?


 
Exactly, and that was who sprank to mind when I heard about this progamme.


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## Leo (21 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that. Gardai do this all the time and it's fair enough.



Wallace had spoken out previously saying that no discretion should be exercised by the Gardai, calling for all those who had benefitted from such discretion to be brought before the courts. He has since rowed back on that!


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## Delboy (21 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> This is not true. Wallace is correct, the system is corrupt. It is corrupt that people get penalty points and get them wiped because they are a judge, a politician, a gardai or a friend of a garda.
> 
> The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that.



I'd wager you have a better chance of not getting points in the 1st place if your a well know face (or head in this case)....so discretion is more likely to be used for (in)famous citizens such as Wallace rather than for myself for example.

So to me it's all corrupt


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## AgathaC (21 May 2013)

Latrade said:


> I agree with there being a justification with regards to demonstrating hypocrisy, but I don't think it does. I see the issue raised by Wallace et al and the specific issue raised by Shatter as being completely different. However, that's not really the question people have. What people want to know is how did Shatter find out.
> ...So with what Wallace is alleging, there is a paper trail, with what Shatter is alleging, there’s nothing. Someone has obvious reported a story up the chain of command to him maliciously. So how did the Minister for Justice come by the information and why did he think it ok to present the information on television?


This,in my opinion, sums it up. Where/ how did Shatter acquire the information, and how can it be acceptable to use information like that as ammunition to throw out at someone on live tv, or anywhere else?
I am no fan of either individual involved, but I really believe Shatter has abused his power as Minister here and it should not be glossed over by Enda Kenny. This has implications also for the Gardai, in my view. There are a lot of questions to be answered, starting with Shatter. I won't hold my breath.


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## Bronte (22 May 2013)

This story is quite amazing and reminds me of one Sean Doherty and phone tapping. 

Still don't understand how come a minor interaction between two ordinary cops and a TD ended up at Commissioner level, why would that happen. Are ordinary policemen obliged to record and report all incidents with politicians. 

Why would the Garda Commissioner even tell Shatter, it sounds like gossip from the Commissioner to Shatter, surely the Commissioner would not report such information unless there was documentary proof and it were for the public good.  Rather than being an attempt to do down an opponent, which is the way it came accross.   

How come we have 3 independant TD's, who have accussed the gardai of some kind of corruption, and yet those 3 TD's seem to have every move they make recorded. Ming is a hypocrite who got points wiped, twice, Claire Daly was handcuffed and brought to a police station for turning incorrectly at lights, is it routine to handcuff TD's in such a manner, and now this non even with Wallace ends up being divulted to the nation courtesy of the Minister for Justice.  Why do we know about all of these incidents.


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## Bronte (22 May 2013)

Leo said:


> Wallace had spoken out previously saying that no discretion should be exercised by the Gardai, calling for all those who had benefitted from such discretion to be brought before the courts. He has since rowed back on that!


 
Claire Byrne stated that he said no such thing? That she was in the studio when Mick Wallace was speaking and that is not what he said?

It would be interesting to have a poll to see if the Irish public believes the Pulse system is open to abuse.  Do the people on AAM believe that no points are wiped without a valid reason, that those that are wiped are not documented and accounted for and transparent.


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## blueband (22 May 2013)

of course points are wiped for non valid reasons, we already know that. what we are being told is that it only happend on a small scale, i dont believe that for one minute.
the fact that the cops were allowed to investigate themselves on this says it all.


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## Leo (22 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> Claire Byrne stated that he said no such thing? That she was in the studio when Mick Wallace was speaking and that is not what he said?



Well if Claire said so... 

Why then did he then admit his call to do so would clog up the courts system, and call for a paper trail of all such incidents in future?


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## gianni (22 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> It would be interesting to have a poll to see if the Irish public believes the Pulse system is open to abuse.



What do the Irish public know about the PULSE system ??
A survey, with such a leading question, would only have one outcome...


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## Bronte (23 May 2013)

Actually that's a good point Gianni, what do we actually know about how the Pulse works, did the report on it not outline that?

Leo, don't get what you mean about Claire Byrne, it was a current affairs programe on RTE that I'm referring to. Do you mean she is incorrect?

Interesting to see how the dealing of Mick with the gardai has got legs. Now out of the blue a story from 13 years ago. 

What has Mick et al done to upset certain sections of society, maybe he's hit a raw nerve on penalty points.  And more particularly in relation to 'discretion.' That's the only conclusion I can come to.


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## Leo (23 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> Leo, don't get what you mean about Claire Byrne, it was a current affairs programe on RTE that I'm referring to. Do you mean she is incorrect?



Mick has since admitted to saying it, so I guess he's saying she is incorrect.


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## Bronte (24 May 2013)

Leo said:


> Mick has since admitted to saying it, so I guess he's saying she is incorrect.


 
No I don't think you are correct, Mick says that garda discretion is fine in day to day work, but where there are penalty points given, then after this the wiping of these points should be done in an open and tranparent manner, I think he mentioned in a courtroom. Basically we citizens are left with the feeling that SOME people can get penalty points wiped for spurious reasons. Reasons like being a gardai, a judge, a politician or someone who knows a garda. 

Anyway as this GUBU continues. How come Shatter when he was not able to complete the breathliser test was he not arrested, handcuffed like Claire Daly and brought to the station to give a urine sample. 

Why the difference in treatment?

Big questions now to be answer by the Gardai.

Meanwhile get your orders in for 50 shades of Shatter, coming to the presses any day now.  

It's amazing how clever people can be so silly.  What goes around comes around I guess.


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## cork (24 May 2013)

Have to say that Shatter has a lot of questions to answer.

The continued support of Enda Kenny and Gilmore tomards him - raises questions with regard to their leadership and judgement.

The Gardai also have some serious questions to answer.

GUBU indeed


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## Ceist Beag (24 May 2013)

How did the story about Shatter and the breath test come to be public knowledge?


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## TRS30 (24 May 2013)

Ceist Beag said:


> How did the story about Shatter and the breath test come to be public knowledge?



Mattie McGrath.


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## Leo (24 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> No I don't think you are correct, Mick says that garda discretion is fine in day to day work, but where there are penalty points given, then after this the wiping of these points should be done in an open and tranparent manner, I think he mentioned in a courtroom.



Are you Mick Wallace in disguise(incognito)?   

You can think what you like, I'm just quoting what he said himself. If you don't think I'm correct, then you're calling him a liar! When he retracted the call to bring all such cases before the courts, it was then he said it should be done in an open and transparent manner. 

To be clear, I'm not saying any party here is right, I think they're all wrong, and unfortunately for us, all as corrupt as each other.


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## Ceist Beag (24 May 2013)

TRS30 said:


> Mattie McGrath.



 yes I understood that, my point was more, where did he get this information? Is it another case of him speaking to the garda commissioner and this slipping into the conversation? Why are people not asking Mattie the same question of how did you come to know this that were asked of Shatter?


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## cork (24 May 2013)

Ceist Beag said:


> Why are people not asking Mattie the same question of how did you come to know this that were asked of Shatter?



Maybe they are.

But it is disgraceful that a Minister can use confidential garda information in the course of a political debate.

Do FG or Labour have any political standards?

If this happened in the UK - the Minister would be gone.

Why are low political standards so acceptable here?


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## One (24 May 2013)

cork said:


> But it is disgraceful that a Minister can use confidential garda information in the course of a political debate.


 
But why is it deemed confidential information? What is confidential about it?


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## Ceist Beag (24 May 2013)

cork said:


> Maybe they are.
> 
> But it is disgraceful that a Minister can use confidential garda information in the course of a political debate.
> 
> ...



As far as I can see the low political standards are the common denominator here, one side is no better than the other.


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## cork (27 May 2013)

What annoyed me last night was another Minister  thinking this incident was trivial.


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## Purple (27 May 2013)

What’s really disturbing is that these stories are filling the news and the major issues that still face this country are not being addressed.
Mick Wallace is a disgrace and an embarrassment and it’s a shame on the country that he’s in the Dail. Alan Shatter is an arrogant man but a good minister. None of this is of any relevance to running the country and none of it addresses the intellectual void at the helm of the government that’s lead to a vacuum of leadership. 
We have real issues to deal with and these aint them.


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## One (27 May 2013)

Purple said:


> We have real issues to deal with and these aint them.


 
Well said. The Sunday newspapers were full of these stories. I'm sure there are more relevant political issues to discuss than these.


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## Ceist Beag (27 May 2013)

Purple said:


> What’s really disturbing is that these stories are filling the news and the major issues that still face this country are not being addressed.
> Mick Wallace is a disgrace and an embarrassment and it’s a shame on the country that he’s in the Dail. Alan Shatter is an arrogant man but a good minister. None of this is of any relevance to running the country and none of it addresses the intellectual void at the helm of the government that’s lead to a vacuum of leadership.
> We have real issues to deal with and these aint them.



A big +1 to all of that Purple.


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## Bronte (28 May 2013)

Purple said:


> Mick Wallace is a disgrace and an embarrassment and it’s a shame on the country that he’s in the Dail. Alan Shatter is an arrogant man but a good minister.


 
Would it be different if it were Michael D or Mary McAleese and not Mick Wallace? Are you saying that because Wallace is a disgrace and Shatter a good minister that it's ok for Shatter to abuse his power?


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## Purple (28 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> Would it be different if it were Michael D or Mary McAleese and not Mick Wallace? Are you saying that because Wallace is a disgrace and Shatter a good minister that it's ok for Shatter to abuse his power?


I'm saying that this is a minor issue and there are far bigger issues facing the country. I'm saying that our media is doing the nation a disservice filling column inches and the airwaves with this side story.

The fact that it's a tax dodging builder from Wexford, who shows contempt for the people of Ireland every time he turns up in the Dail in the clothes he slept in, that's in the middle of this is galling as well.


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## Calico (28 May 2013)

Can't believe this is still making headline news.


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## Sunny (28 May 2013)

The original points expose was less of a story. This is a story. It's in the airwaves because it is a story. There are numerous aspects to it. It questions the professionalism of the Gardai and makes people wonder if this a deliberate attempt to discredit political critics. It questions the judgement of Shatter that he felt it was right to go on Prime Time and disclose information like that considering he is Minister of Justice and a trained barrister. 

He also has questions to answer on whether he did use his position to avoid a breathalyser test. 

Reminds me of that story recently in the UK where the cabinet minister was forced out through police allegations that didn't stand up. 

As for Wallace. He should keep his mouth shut and consider himself lucky not to be in jail.


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## demoivre (28 May 2013)

Purple said:


> I'm saying that this is a minor issue and there are far bigger issues facing the country. I'm saying that our media is doing the nation a disservice filling column inches and the airwaves with this side story.
> 
> The fact that it's a tax dodging builder from Wexford, who shows contempt for the people of Ireland every time he turns up in the Dail in the clothes he slept in



Let's draw  [broken link removed] and stick with suits.


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## cork (29 May 2013)

Shatter apologised.

But has he now found a nonel way of escaping the breathalyser?

Can a politican simply apologise after using confidental garda information in the course of political debate?

This guy should have resigned about 13 days ago.

His continued defence by the polical leaders in this country shows a lack of political standards.

If this happened in the UK - He would have resigned long ago.

Now - how did a local garda report go missing?

GUBU ABU


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## Bronte (29 May 2013)

Purple said:


> The fact that it's a tax dodging builder from Wexford, who shows contempt for the people of Ireland every time he turns up in the Dail in the clothes he slept in, that's in the middle of this is galling as well.


 
Whether he has had issues with his taxes and he doesn't wear a suit doesn't mean he should not be treated properly by the Gardai not reporting nonsense events to Commissioner level who then transfer it to the Minister for Justice who has now apologised for doing wrong. He abused his position. It's not important who or what Wallace is in this instance. 

What is important is the position and non abuse of a ministeral office (unless in the national interest etc)

As for the bright pink shirts, is it better then when Kenny chats closely to immaculately turned out Lowry and O'Brien, or Haughey lectures us whilst being coutured in hand made Charvet shirts, or Brian Lenihan in his sombre lawyer suits does deals with the clever bankers in their suits from Savile Row. 

I'll take the Wexford man with his mane of blond hair and pink shirts any day before those last men.  And I'm grateful to him for us finding out what the gardai and people in Ministeral office are prepared to do.


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## Bronte (29 May 2013)

Sunny said:


> As for Wallace. He should keep his mouth shut and consider himself lucky not to be in jail.


 
In jail for what?


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## DB74 (29 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> In jail for what?



Fraud - deliberate falsification of VAT returns


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## Purple (29 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> Whether he has had issues with his taxes and he doesn't wear a suit doesn't mean he should not be treated properly by the Gardai not reporting nonsense events to Commissioner level who then transfer it to the Minister for Justice who has now apologised for doing wrong. He abused his position. It's not important who or what Wallace is in this instance.
> 
> What is important is the position and non abuse of a ministeral office (unless in the national interest etc)
> 
> ...



I have to say that’s a very one-eyed view of things.
I agree that Mick Wallace should be treated properly by the Gardai, just as Clare Daily should. I also agree that the Minister for Justice should not be privy to gossip from the Garda Commissioner and should certainly not then repeat that gossip in public. 
The fact that Mick Wallace has defrauded the people of Ireland of VAT receipts, left local suppliers short to the tune of over €2’000’000 and flaunted the law on a number of other occasions does not mean that he is not entitled to the same protections and due process as law abiding citizens. It does make his an opportunist hypocrite and, in my opinion, a reprehensible individual with no moral fibre. 
I’m not one for formal attire in most circumstances but I do wear appropriate clothing in order to show respect to the people, event or location that I am at. For example I wouldn’t wear shorts and a pink shirt to a funeral or to a wedding (unless that was the theme of the day) and, if I was a TD, I wouldn’t show disrespect to the people of Ireland by turning up to the Dail looking dirty and unkempt.


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## Bronte (30 May 2013)

Purple said:


> I have to say that’s a very one-eyed view of things.
> 
> Mick Wallace has defrauded ...., a reprehensible individual with no moral fibre.
> .


 
Not sure what you mean by one eyed view Purple, but it seems you're broadly in agreement about this incident. 

In relation to your views on Wallace, that is not what this thread is about. And it's a different debate. 

Re the clothes, an anecdote. Mr.Bronte once went up to the credit union to get a small loan in raggedy jeans and a tshirt and was refused, so I got him to put on a suit and go up the next week and guess what, he got the loan. Clothes maketh the man. But sometimes it masks the man. And can create a false sense of authority/safeness/security. The biggest crooks in this small country wear suits. 

The people of Wexford will have the time next election to judge Wallace and his pink shirts, for now who he is and what he is and what he wears if that is important can all be decided upon again then. And I like pink shirts on a man. Can live without the stubble though.


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## Purple (30 May 2013)

Bronte said:


> Not sure what you mean by one eyed view Purple, but it seems you're broadly in agreement about this incident.
> 
> In relation to your views on Wallace, that is not what this thread is about. And it's a different debate.
> 
> ...



I've a pink shirt


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## Bronte (28 Jan 2014)

We are going to have another enquiry into penalty points seeing as we haven't had enough investigations already.  Why does Shatter feel the need for a new enquiry, is he not undermining those who did the previous ones, and if he is, shouldn't those that investigated and their processes and procedures be looked at as it would imply that they didn't work.  

Here's an interesting take on it

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpo...es-noble-attempt-to-police-gardai-256419.html

and Gene Kerrigan

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...a-groupthink-the-force-has-form-29950955.html

I heard a snippet of Marian Finucane yesterday, the Gerald Kean bit, he was over the top in his defence of the gardai. Was it made clear that he is the son of a gardai and were any of the panel asked had they penalty points wiped themselves. Any AAMer have points wiped and how did you go about it, relation, contact etc?


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## Conan (28 Jan 2014)

Rather than have the PAC investigating Garda actions, would they not be better off investigating why we have to have 6 investigations into penalty points ( and the waste of money involved in such). 
But the main reason I favour the Garda Ombudsman carrying out an full investigation is that it might put an end to Shane Ross' grandstanding. He must be the most self righteous, self opionated publicity chasing TD we have ever had the misfortune to elect. For someone so willing to be critical of everybody else, I never ever saw him critical of Michael Fingleton, despite Ross being willing to have a go at bankers big and small. It seems to me that he uses his position as a TD (and member of the PAC) to garner information for his stories in the Sindo. Such a hypocrite.


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## Delboy (29 Jan 2014)

Shatter announced this latest enquiry at the last minute to stop the PAC from hearing the whistleblowers, slap down those in PAC who were getting too uppity (though this has back fired to a degree as 1 of the whistleblowers is still coming before the PAC tomorrow for a private hearing despite FG trying to vote it down...looks like Labour ignored Shatter's lead on this). It was also a sop to the Garda Commissioner who has behaved disgracefully on this subject...he certainly seems to feel he is unanswerable to anyone in this state.
This will drag on for months/years...the Garda will refuse to fully co-operate with the Ombudsman, they're be legal wrangling over it....and then it'll be the next Govt's/Commissioners problem in a few years time. An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

But I agree also with Conan re Shane Ross.


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## Bronte (30 Jan 2014)

Conan said:


> it might put an end to Shane Ross' grandstanding. He must be the most self righteous, self opionated publicity chasing TD we have ever had the misfortune to elect.
> 
> Such a hypocrite.


 
I don't get this, are you not happy that Shane Ross, Mary Lou and McGuinness are actually informing the Irish people of what a shambolic system we have in many areas? We find out weekly now about corruption and sense of entitlement, about people dipping their hands in the cash till of Irish taxpayers incessantly. What difference does it make that Shane Ross is opinionated etc? Is he not doing us all a great service. 

Do you really really believe that the gardai are capable of investigating themselves, and this applies not just to the gardai. I for one am grateful to those who shine a light on what is really going on.


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## Rovers1901 (30 Jan 2014)

In all of its big ticket issues in recent years PAC basically acts as the public theatre to work done by Civil or Public Servants in investigating areas of inefficient or wasteful spending. That’s not a criticism by the way, it’s right that PAC calls in the officials who did the investigating and calls in those who were under investigation and holds people accountable. PAC itself is not doing these investigations it’s merely acting on investigations already carried out within the Public Service.

But there’s no doubt it’s used as a vehicle for grandstanding. It’s a political forum for relegated politicians, up and coming politicians and politicians, who for one reason or another, are never going to be a Minister. So they milk it for all its worth to the benefit of their profile and agenda but not necessarily to the benefit of the work they’re purporting to do. Often the two cross over and genuinely useful work is carried out but sometimes the two diverge considerably and we’re left with very watchable TV but pretty wasteful use of everybody’s time (witness their decision to call in Irish Water – the real issue surely is not the cost of the tenders awarded under a competitive process (but which the media and public loved) but rather the fact BG got the gig on the basis of their expertise in these matters and the SLA with local authorities for 20 years)

Shane Ross is a prime example of this. He positions himself as being some sort of new broom or sheriff in town, ignoring the fact he’s been in the Oireachtas for 35 years achieving little other than a public profile. He ignores the fact that when he rants about waste and inefficiencies and the lectures about the behaviours of the Tiger years that wrecked the country, he was writing articles in the paper lauding Anglo and NIB and goading AIB and BoI as to how they were being left behind in this brave new world of financial wizerdery. He’s the personification of the Emperor with no clothes in my opinion.


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## TRS30 (30 Jan 2014)

Rovers1901 said:


> .... PAC calls in the officials who did the investigating and calls in those who were under investigation and holds people accountable. .....



Holds them accountable how? They 'suffer' the public spotlight on them for a few days and then it all goes away and they continue as normal.


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## Bronte (19 Feb 2014)

Well with the shocking news, time to continue a debate on Shatter?


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## werner (26 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> Well with the shocking news, time to continue a debate on Shatter?


 
The honourable thing that Shatter should have done is resign, if there was an ounce of probitiy in the current government he would be pushed!


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## Bronte (8 May 2014)

Truly a corrupt country from top to bottom. Glad that Shatter is gone, but not one bit happy with the whole sorry mess. Fine Gael are a disgrace, the Garda Commissioner is a disgrace, Gilmore is a disgrace, the corrupt Gardai are a disgrace, the bullying Gardai are a disgrace and Shatter is a disgrace, even the manner of his leaving he couldn't do it with dignity. 

Well done Garda McCabe and Wilton. Two fine upstanding honourable men. 

Also well done Mick Wallace who has conducted himself with dignity thoughout, also well done Clare Daly and even Ming. 

Lastly well done Michael Clifford of the Examiner.  Excellent reporting throughout with no fear or favour.  

As this is a money website I'll add this. I sincerely hope the next Minister for Justice throws out the catestrophic Insolvency legislation and starts from scratch. A travesty of legal drafting and incompetence.


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## demoivre (8 May 2014)

Don't know why we are still orange. Is Ray Burke the editor ?


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## Marion (8 May 2014)

Mick Wallace,  Clare Daly and Ming might learn a few lessons from this resignation

Having said this, Alan Shatter had to resign.

Marion


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