# Neg Equity, aggresive ex partner, and child in middle



## Greeneye (12 May 2013)

Hi, any advice really appreciated. 

Ex and I unmarried, bought house in 2006 for 225,000, currently valued approx 140-150,000 - we have current mortgage of 170,000, which is a tracker mortgage.

  I work 4 day wk, I earn 37,000 pa. I have put every penny into house and savings, I have been so terrified of being without anything due to experience in my twenties of being homeless for a few years, but I made huge efforts to turn my life around. 

Anyhow, My ex still lives in house, its unbearable now, he will not move out and tells me it is up to me to move out and he wants to take custody of child. He has told me that he will make it that the child will have nothing to do with me. 

Obviously I dont want my child in this kind of place, but the ex is happy to stay this way, I know it will damage child if it continues. 

The ex is in debt to I think about 7,000 he has no assets. He kinda always lived off me, after 15 years I only realised this. 

I am 41 years old and realistically my current home is going to be the only home I will ever have. I want to keep my home, preferably I would love to own the house out right. I have offered him money to go, 10,000, but he not interested. He could live with his parents, I know thats not ideal, but its not option for me as both are dead. 

I have been given legal advice which is do not move out, which is not a runner anymore. If I move out I will not be able to afford a rental and contribute to a mortgage, I want to contribute to mortgage because when time comes where house can be sold I want to get my fair share,

if I don't contribute to mortgage will I have any chance of getting half share of house, the rent I will be paying will be about 100 more per month then the monthly mortgage of 712. 

I am useless at finances and have no idea I doing to be honest, I dont even know if I should approach bank or what to say to them if I did. 

Should also add I am aware I am liable for mortgage, when the ex messes it up, is there any way of forcing him to give up the house.

 I think he thinks if he is in family home he will get the child, not sure how accurate this is either.

 If I have to I will go but only for the sake of the child, I will not go only for him to get even joint custody of the child, child is 5, I think that would confuse him and besides I dont think his dad is good influence in lot of ways.


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## SarahMc (13 May 2013)

What a mess, I'm sorry you are goin through this.
I don't think there is any way to force him to move out, well not without a lengthy and expensive court battle. Is he not amenable to mediation at all?

I think both of you need to stop using access to the child as a weapon. Him saying no access, you more or less saying the same. What is in the child's best interest? It may very well be joint custody. You might not think he is a good influence but almost certainly it is better for your child to have an ongoing relationship with his dad rooted in day to day living not just Sunday visits.

Who is the main carer? Does your (ex) partner work?


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## Brendan Burgess (13 May 2013)

I have edited your post to make it readable. Please don't type one long continuous sentence in any replies. Use paragraphs and full sentences. 


You have to untangle the custody situation from the property situation. I can't advise on the custody situation but I presume that there are no grounds for him to " he wants to take custody of child. He has told me that he will make it that the child will have nothing to do with me."   I assume that the mother is usually favoured for custody, unless there are grounds that she is unfit e.g. a drug abuser.  Especially when you are unmarried. Would it not be a major legal battle for him to get custody?  You need to get your solicitor's advice on this issue first, before you can deal with the house situation. 


> he has no assets.


Does he own the house jointly with you? 

Please provide the following information on the house: 

1) Who provided the deposit and in what proportions? 
2) Who is making the monthly repayments at the moment? 
3) Are there any arrears?
4) Who is the lender?



> He kinda always lived off me, after 15 years I only realised this...
> Should also add I am aware I am liable for mortgage, when the ex messes it up


This kind of suggests that he won't be able to pay the mortgage.

You talk about your fair share of the house. But the house is in around €30k of negative equity.  So your fair share is -€15,000.  Because you have a tracker mortgage, it might be worth holding onto, but it's not clear. 

Subject to legal advice, I would suggest the following: 

Write to him requesting formal mediation on the whole relationship including the child and the mortgage,  making the best interests of the child the priority.
Assuming he refuses, write to him making him an offer on the house or requesting him to make you an offer for your share of the house. 
Again, assuming that goes nowhere, you will have to leave with the child and rent. 
Write to him telling him that you will be no longer contributing to the mortgage until you have come to an agreement on the ownership of the house. 
Notify the bank accordingly and ask them to send copies of the mortgage statement to you, so you can keep an eye on whether he is making the payments or not.
If he falls into arrears, you can write to the bank saying that you have no objection to their repossessing the house. 

You have to be as tough and assertive as he is aggressive. There is no way around it.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 May 2013)

Check out the Citizens Information guide to guardianship, custody and access



> By law, an unmarried mother is the sole guardian of a child born outside of marriage.
> 
> Unless the mother agrees to sign a statutory declaration, an unmarried father must apply to the court in order to become a legal guardian of his child.



Have you agreed or  has the court granted your ex guardianship? 

If not, you have the sole right to decide where your child lives, and whether or not the father has access.


He can apply for custody of the child, but there would have to be very strong reasons for the court to give him custody.

He can apply for access, and there would have to be very strong reasons not to give him access.


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## ClubMan (13 May 2013)

My tuppence for what it's worth...



Greeneye said:


> Anyhow, My ex still lives in house, its unbearable now
> 
> ...
> 
> I have been given legal advice which is do not move out, which is not a runner anymore.


In that case you need to discuss the matter again with your solicitor in the light of the ongoing situation. If it is truly unbearable for everybody to live together then the issue of moving out may need to be broached again. 


SarahMc said:


> I think both of you need to stop using access to the child as a weapon. Him saying no access, you more or less saying the same. What is in the child's best interest? It may very well be joint custody. You might not think he is a good influence but almost certainly it is better for your child to have an ongoing relationship with his dad rooted in day to day living not just Sunday visits.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. It may sound trite and may not be easy but the child is the most vulnerable party in all of this and needs to be protected by both parents separating guardianship/custody/other welfare issues from other areas of disagreement and not using these as threats against each other. Mediation should be considered if there is any chance of it working to settle even some of the areas of disagreement.

_Brendan _has given some good advice on the financial aspects of the situation. While I agree that you need to be assertive the reality is that situations like this will only be resolved by one or ideally both parties ceding some ground in areas of disagreement.


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## Greeneye (13 May 2013)

Hi, thanks for your responses.

Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear, at no point have I said he would have no access to child, I have encouraged their relationship and would not involve my child in the relationship, unlike him who talks to my son telling him how bad I am, the child is very young, maybe that might give you an idea of what kind of person I am dealing with to use a child.  

I am not ex drug user or anything I don't even smoke or drink.

I cut my working week because I hated idea of child in creche five days, although as my ex partner said if I made that choice he was not supplementing my contribution to the bills and that I would have to contribute the same, which I have done. We contribute equally to mortgage and household bills. Shopping and child everyday expense is from me. 

He is not a Guardian of the child. 

He works shifts and might not see the child for a week at a time, sometimes. 

I pick up most of the childcare because I am here weekends and after work, I dont go out much because I have a child to care for.

My main priority is my child, I don't want him losing his family home, but I cant have him exposed to person who has no problems roaring and shouting in front of him. I am not using the child, I am trying to protect him by considering moving out of the home I adore, its part of my duty to him. 

I will always encourage my child to have relationship with his father, I feel its important, but I feel joint custody would not be good for the child.


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## Greeneye (13 May 2013)

Hi again and very grateful for your response.

In relation to the house. 

We both paid equal amount of deposit.
We both are currently paying the mortgage which is up to date and not in arrears.
The mortgage is with PTSB.

Yes, I understand my fair share is owing the bank 15,000, but I am looking to the future in a few years, when the house comes into positive equity. 

I really don't want to lose the house, I want something for my child in the future. His father is very bad with money and I would be extremely surprised if he kept up the repayments. 

He has refused mediation.


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## ClubMan (13 May 2013)

Greeneye said:


> My main priority is my child


Of course, but your child has a right to a relationship with his father too just as, like you, the father has rights and responsibilities in this situation.

Without getting into specific advice about your situation (that's your solicitor's job) my understanding is that if it came to it (i.e. mutual agreement could not be reached) then a father in a situation such as this would be unlikely to be refused guardianship status (or alternatively the child would not be refused the guardianship of both parents) and access - whatever about joint or sole custody. 

If the father has refused to participate in mediation then there may be no option other than the legal route to try to resolve matters.

I would suggest that you keep a private log of any relevant incidents just in case it comes in useful. And that you get further advice from your solicitor on all of the issues.

Hope this helps.


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## RichInSpirit (13 May 2013)

Hi Greeneye. Sorry to hear about your situation. 
Just throwing out a few ideas here. There is a service called mediation where separating couples come to the table and agree a separation without going fully legal about things. 
Second idea is ~ Could the house be physically split into two separate living areas under the one roof. ? Ie by blocking up some internal doors, and both of you continuing to live in the same house but in different halves of it.


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## SarahMc (13 May 2013)

Has he had legal advice? If not you should probably encourage him to do so as a solicitor should put him straight that he hasn't a hope of getting full custody and getting away without paying maintenance. He might be more open to mediation then. Would you be willing to offer a deal whereby he foregoes maintenance for x months if he leaves.

Bear in mind that even if he leaves, he still has 50% of the house unless you can raise a mortgage in your own right to get him off the deeds.


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## Greeneye (13 May 2013)

HI thanks again everyone,Just to be clear - it was never me who has tried to prevent or influence my child with his father it is the father who is involving the child and telling me I will not get the child or see him -  I had previously  suggested we build a place in the back,where he could live,  we have a large garden it would not have been a gloirfied shed, but he would not consider it. 

The house is very small and no way to partition.

I can't see the bank giving me a mortgage in my own name unless I wait few years until neg equity is gone and then I will have to go back to work full time at a time I think my child needs me most, but he will not consider me taking on the house in my own name. 

If he moved out I would give him 10,000, this could clear his debts and free him of neg equity in house, if he lived with his mam he would have a fighting chance of getting something of his own and something for our child to inherit some flippin day so he doesn't have to live this kind of miserable life.  

If I move out, I have to rent and contribute to house, which he will probably run into the ground, he might not pay anything to creche fees which would leave me unable to cover everything, he is a spiteful person I could imagine him doing that. 

I cant keep rolling over and allowing him to walk over me, he is begining to tell my child stuff and trying to undermine me in every area, I bite my tongue but I think that my refusal to fight for the sake of the child is allowing him to take advantage of me.


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## olddoll (13 May 2013)

Would you consider contacting Women's Aid  (tel 1800 341 900)?  They are very experienced in dealing with situations such as yours and could give you advice and guidance on what will help you move forward.

Wishing you the best of luck.


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## Greeneye (13 May 2013)

Thanks Olddoll, that is something I didn't consider, hate the idea of dirty washing out there, but I think my reluctance to do that has been used. 

I would of course forfeit maintenance etc in return for him getting on his feet I have no wish whatsoever of trying to get everything, i don't want to bringing this person to their knees. I don't want to get to the point of no reason.


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## ClubMan (14 May 2013)

RichInSpirit said:


> There is a service called mediation where separating couples come to the table and agree a separation without going fully legal about things.



According to the original poster he won't mediate. But maybe if he is made aware of the possible advantages of this route he might reconsider?



Greeneye said:


> He has refused mediation.



In my opinion you really need to be guided primarily by your solicitor on the best course of action on all fronts - child guardianship/custody/access/welfare issues, financial and housing issues etc. You need a good solicitor experienced in these matters who you trust. Don't be surprised or upset if some of the advice is not what you want to hear. It's a tricky situation and regardless of the lack of trust/respect between the two of you, it will be necessary to come to some accommodation on some or all of the issues involved. This may involved either or both of you negotiating and possibly ceding some ground. If you don't then it could end up with a court/judge imposing their decision which could be a bit of a lottery and out of your hands. Better to try to retain some ownerhip and control over the ultimate solution if at all possible. Do you/he qualify for _Legal Aid Board _representation (www.legalaidboard.ie)?

Using the child to denigrate the other parent is bang out of order though and must stop immediately.


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## Greeneye (14 May 2013)

Thanks again for advice it really is a lifeline and great practical advice. Unfortunately a look at our accounts revealed that he has stopped putting money into joint account, which means I have to find the money now for mortgage creche etc. 

I agree I need a solicitor for advice but I need a great one now who doesnt cost the earth because due to my now having to cover all bills I really restrictet. Anyone know a great experienced solicitor? I don't have a solicitor let alone one I know or can trust, 

He is refusing to speak to me so I dont know what to do. I am getting legal advice today and applying for (and more likely refused) legal aid.

I hate idea of contacting bank to try and go to interest only but I think my hand forced in involving bank. 

You right I hope he gets some proper legal advice or mediation, I am going to try again with mediation although he originally refused maybe he has some reason left.


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## milamber (14 May 2013)

*Just a suggestion*

1. You and the father are no longer getting along.
2. You both paid a deposit.
3. Both are paying for a mortgage.

My suggestion would be the following.

1. Figure out who payed how much over the period of the loan so far.
2. Remortgage if you can and pay him off to get out and have his name removed from the mortgage by consent- basically - cut him a deal if he will accept. I know you offered 10k but it will be higher. At that point he is out of the house. Its yours - he can get another loan - house.
3. As the father of your child - he will have rights - agree a workable schedule that you both can live with and move on - he will have rights to his child but you as a woman are pretty much in charge.
4. Its better for your children that you argue privately - believe me - my wife chooses to argue publicly too and it does no good - it affects your kids almost immediately.

I hope that your other half goes along with this and is a reasonable person but other than that - it would be a legal route next.


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## Greeneye (14 May 2013)

Hi, thanks for your advice, I think I understand what you mean by the re mortgage, which would probably be the best idea if the house was not in negative equity,  but if I was to remortgage that would put the house into higher neg equity and cant imagine bank allowing him to take his name off deed under those kind of circumstances.


The 10,000 would be a lump sum and him not having to pay off his share of neg equity which is in region of 15,000.


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## milamber (14 May 2013)

If under the circumstances - he is not paying into in already - then you are already on your own. 
The mortgage could be increased so that you could pay him off. The trade off would be that the term the mortgage has currently will increase so instead of 20 years left - your get 30 years left. This will keep the mortgage payments per month about the same but overall you pay over the long term.

It gets him out of your life sort of.

Either way - he will have rights as I said before - best you agree rules about how to manage the child - what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
Best that you both never bad mouth each other to the child as this destroys the child and has little effect on the parents. Whats more important.

Anyway - the mortgage solution allows you to pay him off - get rid of him but he will still have to pay maintenance to you probably.

Either way - you will have some dealing with him after this but be careful with your next partner.


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## Greeneye (14 May 2013)

Thanks Milamber, the bank are very unlikely to take his name off mortgage even if ex and I agree a lump sum in exchange for his forfeit of interest in house.  

In relation to him taking his lump sum and going, I will look into that, but am pretty certain an agreement like that could be demolished by him if he really wanted to, not sure how strong it would be and he has not shown himself to a trustworthy or decent person,so if there is any such thing as this kind of agreement and it is not watertight well that will not be a runner. 

I know he will always be around  I understand that, I can see the childs wedding in the future god knows what table I will be attempted to be banished to at this rate. There will be no next partner I have a little person to be concentrating on and trying to rear to be a fair, decent  and strong non hater, but with an Irish mammy who will have his back.


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## wbbs (14 May 2013)

Milamber, I know you are trying to help but there is not a hope of a remortgage in a negative equity case, removing a name from a mortgage is nearly as difficult. 

Greeneye, you will have to get yourself some legal advice, maybe as a first move you could try your local Citizens Information Service, many of them operate Free Legal Aid Clinics regularly where you will get a brief meeting with a solicitor who can point you in the right direction.  It will only be verbal advice but wont cost you anything and at least will give you some clarity.


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## ClubMan (15 May 2013)

Greeneye said:


> I hate idea of contacting bank to try and go to interest only but I think my hand forced in involving bank.


If the normal capital + interest repayments are not affordable right now then it makes sense to talk to the lender to come to some arrangement that is affordable and mutually acceptable. Especially before the situation worsens (e.g. you start missing repayments and get into arrears).


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## Lucuma (21 May 2013)

Greeneye, I'm 3 years + into a situation similar to yours. My advice to you is simple: get the hell out of that house. Walk away from it, completely. Stop paying the mortgage, house insurance, mortgage protection etc. Let your ex deal with it. Let the bank chase him for the money. He won't be long copping on then. You are not obliged to pay rent in your new place and continue contributing to the mortgage. There's nothing forcing you to contribute to that mortgage except your own good conscience. Just stop. And then wait and see what happens. 

Things will happen fast - both your ex and the bank will be forced to start taking action. 
If you dont' do this then believe me, years will pass and you'll be paying the full mortgage and insurances while your ex has buggered off (or worse, stopped paying but hasn't buggered off)


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## boudicca (16 Jun 2013)

this sounds like me.. :-(


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