# Vendor lied about house flooding?



## zipee (2 Jan 2013)

So I closed the sale on a house just before Christmas.  I specifically asked the Estate Agent if the house had flooded and he said definitely not.  I then asked my solicitor to put the question to the vendor's solicitor.  

They came back that vendor stated that the house has not flooded since it was built.  However, now doing work on it, I became suspicious - bad smell and small bits of damp above skirting here and there downstairs.  Survey gave it clean bill and said this was very small bit of rising damp but nothing of consequence and probably due to a corner of damp course being bent back.  

So I asked next door neighbour and she assures me they were all flooded in past 18mths!!  Right the way through house.  Now my house is the lowest lying on the block so my house would have likely gotten the worst of it.  

I am fuming.  I am now looking at flood prevention measures which will prove costly.  And that is money I just don't have.  It was a flash flood. 

So is this legal?  Can he lie like that?  Do I have a leg to stand on?

Any advice very welcome.  Also if anyone knows where I would begin to find someone that will advise on how exactly to protect house - what needs to be done etc......


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## ajapale (2 Jan 2013)

What does your solicitor advise?

Have you been able to get insurance your new house? Is flooding included? Is there any loading?


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## Macstuff (2 Jan 2013)

If you asked the question thru your solicitor and they responded thru that channel then surely you have some legal recourse. Ask your solicitor for input on where to go next.


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## zipee (2 Jan 2013)

Only found out today & solicitor not back till mon. Don't know if I will ever get rid of the smell. I insured house answering all questions honestly but now that I know about it I will, I assume have to go back to insurers??

Been in the dumps all day over it & just feel really cheated & dreading what can of worms I may have bought...


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## Seagull (3 Jan 2013)

Do you know if the question and answer between your and the vendor's solicitors was in writing? If it was, then you have solid evidence that the question was asked, and was answered fraudulently. You should then be able to sue the vendor. Your best option might be to try and return the house, and get them to refund you in full including all your expenses.


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## ryanline79 (3 Jan 2013)

Would your surveyor not have picked this up?


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## shigllgetcha (3 Jan 2013)

surveyors only really do a basic superficial check as standard


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## ajapale (3 Jan 2013)

zipee said:


> So I asked next door neighbour and she assures me they were all flooded in past 18mths!





zipee said:


> Been in the dumps all day over it & just feel really cheated & dreading what can of worms I may have bought...



Until you speak with your solicitor and other relevant professionals I would not allow idle chatter from your new neighbour cause undue worry.

What was the nature/cause of the reputed flooding (Burst water mains, burst internal plumbing, storm water, river water, sea water or some other source)?


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## MarySmyth (3 Jan 2013)

*Flooding*

Not sure what type of surveyor you used - friend's husband is a Chartered Building Surveyor www.scsi.ie and said this is the first thing he would check for nowadays, when preparing report.

Flood mapping from OPW is readily available- [broken link removed]


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## zipee (3 Jan 2013)

Well it was a day we got 30 days rain in 12 hours.  So it was rainwater flash flood.  It came in front and back and entire ground floor was under 12 inches of water.  Since posting I have pulled kickers off kitchen and black mould everywhere.  Also pulled off a few skirtings and the same.  I can't move into this house with an asthmatic child.

I am fuming!

I asked estate agent if it ever flooded and he instantly said no.  But I followed up with my solicitor and she put question to theirs.  Their solicitor replied  in a letter that the vendor stated it never flooded.  So I have that.  

It seems that the vendor never dried out the premises properly after it and now over a year on the mould is growing all over downstairs.  I can now see faint mould on skirtings so I suspect they wiped them down prior to sale.  Can;t keep paying rent and mortgage.  Even if this gets sorted it will take months.  Meanwhile I am a single mum with 2 smallies.  

It;s just crap!  We were so excited over our new home.


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## kkelliher (3 Jan 2013)

zipee said:


> Well it was a day we got 30 days rain in 12 hours.  So it was rainwater flash flood.



24th october 2010, was the day for your reference, what a busy period that caused.

I cant see how a surveyor would not pick this up or at least query the mould growths and damp smell that must be in the property if it is as bad as described


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## zipee (4 Jan 2013)

kkelliher said:


> 24th october 2010, was the day for your reference, what a busy period that caused.
> 
> I cant see how a surveyor would not pick this up or at least query the mould growths and damp smell that must be in the property if it is as bad as described


 

He spot one small bit and said it was probably where the damp course peeled back before concrete was poured and not a real problem.  We pointed out another and he said it was just bad paint.  All the mould is behind the scenes.  The owner had cleaned the day before he did the check.  He thought it was a lovely house with minor lazy plumbing issues and that was it.  

I spoke with a friend who had an issue with a surveyor before and they said it is only their brief to check the structural safety of a home, anything else is outside their brief??


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## dublin dude (4 Jan 2013)

Really sorry to read your story Zippee.  My house flooded that fateful night in October 2011 and it was devastating.  I would probably pursue the legal route for starters as you seem to have a paper trail that includes misrepresentation of the facts.  Assuming you needed a bank morgage survey for the property, then the bank surveyor (and your own) should have professional indemnity insurance that you could also possibly claim agianst.  If you do need to move into the property I suggest you consult with a drying Company like the Damp Store who could survey the dampness and make recommendations such as industrial dehumidifiers, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial sprays, etc.  For flood protection measures (which I have since put in place) I would recommend FloodGate Ireland (based in Limerick) that I found good to deal with and relatively good value.  They would also provide free consulation / recommendation.  I am guessing your property is in Dublin and they do a lot of work around Dublin.  I could go on / write a book on dealing with a flood disaster but maybe follow some of the steps suggested and see where that leads.  Its a crap situation to find yourself in but take some action steps and you will start to feel more in control of the situation.


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## zipee (4 Jan 2013)

Thanks dublin dude.  That is a very helpful post. I will follow up on those contacts. Thanks again


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## wbbs (4 Jan 2013)

Bank surveys are valuations only, they are usually done by estate agents not surveyors.


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## Raging Bull (5 Jan 2013)

Yes its misrepresentation since you specfically asked the question. If you hadnt asked the question they would not have needed to disclose.

You have a very strong case, speak to your solicitor at the least i would expect the repairs to be done for you

You could have dual misrepresntation if you show teh estate agent knew. Certainly teh owner knew


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## leonmahon (5 Jan 2013)

wbbs said:


> Bank surveys are valuations only, they are usually done by estate agents not surveyors.



Pretty sure OP means s/he had a full structural survey.


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## wbbs (5 Jan 2013)

Wasn't referring to OP, another poster had said they could possibly claim against bank surveyor, just pointing out banks don't generally hire surveyors only valuers.


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## Bronte (7 Jan 2013)

You may have a claim against either the vendor or the surveyor (not bank valuer).  The only person who can advice you on this is your solicitor.  Does the vendor live in Ireland and is he a mark?


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## ajapale (7 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> The only person who can advice you on this is your solicitor.


Agreed.

What was the exact question asked of the vendor and his agents? Was there ever a written response to the question?

Have you had any difficulty insuring the property?


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## c_donno2001 (8 Jan 2013)

Who hired the surveyor to undertake the survey? Was it you or are you just going on what the banks valuer said to you when (s)he was doing the survey? 

If its a case that you hired the surveyor to undertake the survey of the home, did you receive a brief or rundown of the items that will be looked out for?

Did you get a hard copy of the report? Is there a disclaimer in the report stating that the survey is a visible survey or some other wording similar to that?

I really think that if you paid money for this survey yourself from a practicing surveyor or engineer you really have a great case for professional negligence. Is the person a member of scs or rics or any governing body? 

This kind of thing is learned on day one in surveying 101.

I really feel sorry for you being mislead and think that you have more that one guilty party in your situation.


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## zipee (8 Jan 2013)

Turns out solicitor thinks I have a good case ( thank god).  But it may take a long time to sort. Biggest problem is I can do no work to solve problems until their expert sees it & they may be in rush to send one. So I have to wait & can't move in.  But hopefully it will get sorted in time .... Thanks for replies


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## dont1know (9 Jan 2013)

I'm not sure if its possible, but should you not put a court injuction on him/her (seller) reduceing his/her assets below the value of the house you purchase.  I'm sure this would speed up the legal case too if its in there interest.


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## shigllgetcha (9 Jan 2013)

Do you want to be able to reverse the sale or get the seller to pay to fix the damp? Just curious


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## zipee (9 Jan 2013)

shigllgetcha said:


> Do you want to be able to reverse the sale or get the seller to pay to fix the damp? Just curious


 
Very strongly leaning to reversal of sale   Can't even begin to contemplate resuming my 2yr search for a house.  But I can't see how I would ever resell it.  It has all left such a sour taste to be honest.


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## zipee (9 Jan 2013)

dont1know said:


> I'm not sure if its possible, but should you not put a court injuction on him/her (seller) reduceing his/her assets below the value of the house you purchase. I'm sure this would speed up the legal case too if its in there interest.


 
Have no clue if this is possible but will mention to my solicitor. Thanks


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## Bronte (10 Jan 2013)

Is the vendor a mark?

On what grounds does your solicitor think you have a good case? And against who?  The vendor or engineer or both?


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## Kine (10 Jan 2013)

Once you have decided on a game plan with your solicitor, is there any benefit from approaching your bank with the situation to see if you can get a small moratorium in place to ease your cash flows (i.e. Rent and Mortgage)? May be additional costs you can pursue vendor / surveyor with to avoid you being our of pocket. However, not too sure if you want to inform them the security they have over your mortgage is a little "leaky"!


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## shigllgetcha (10 Jan 2013)

zipee said:


> Very strongly leaning to reversal of sale  Can't even begin to contemplate resuming my 2yr search for a house. But I can't see how I would ever resell it. It has all left such a sour taste to be honest.


 
Such a bad way to start life in a new house even if you wanted to keep it. Best of luck anway


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## fandango1 (10 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> Is the vendor a mark?
> 
> On what grounds does your solicitor think you have a good case? And against who? The vendor or engineer or both?


 

What is the relevance of the vendor's name? I would strongly advise the OP against answering that particular question as it shouldn't matter who the vendor is if they knowingly misled the buyer and it could simply cause further animosity if the vendor's identity is made known on a chat forum


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## ajapale (10 Jan 2013)

A "mark" is some one who has resources and is worth pursuing in the courts. It has nothing to do with a personal name.


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## SparkRite (10 Jan 2013)

fandango1 said:


> What is the relevance of the vendor's name? I would strongly advise the OP against answering that particular question as it shouldn't matter who the vendor is if they knowingly misled the buyer and it could simply cause further animosity if the vendor's identity is made known on a chat forum




Sorry, just had to laugh........

A "mark" is indeed what Ajapale has said above.....


PS> Really feel for the OP though. :-(


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## zipee (11 Jan 2013)

SparkRite said:


> Sorry, just had to laugh........
> 
> A "mark" is indeed what Ajapale has said above.....
> 
> ...



I had no clue what that was either??


I just wish it would get sorted one way other soon! It is the not knowing if it is my house or not or should I move on?


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## Bronte (11 Jan 2013)

Sorry Zipee for being unclear.  If you are going to sue someone you must make sure that they have assets or income.  That is someone being a 'mark'.  So in your case if the vendor has neither assets nor income it would be pointless to sue him. 

Do you know how much it will cost you to take a case?  And what exactly is it you are hoping to achieve?  To rescind the sale or monetary compensation?


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## dont1know (11 Jan 2013)

Bronte said:


> Sorry Zipee for being unclear. If you are going to sue someone you must make sure that they have assets or income. That is someone being a 'mark'. So in your case if the vendor has neither assets nor income it would be pointless to sue him.
> 
> Do you know how much it will cost you to take a case? And what exactly is it you are hoping to achieve? To rescind the sale or monetary compensation?


 

Maybe she should also hire a different solicitor to the one that handle the purchase.

As per the vendor, ff he sold the house, he either purchase a new property or kept the cash, so he has some assets.

I would really would want a freezing order on him asap and a solicitors letter to the person you carried out the Survey.

As per your current situation, I can't see this been resolved quickly... it could take years I'm afraid.

the costs involved will not be cheap either.


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## dublin dude (11 Jan 2013)

Interesting to see where this thread has run to and lots of useful suggestions for  Zippee.  My suggestion re claiming against Bank surveyor implied that OP would put Bank on notice that their asset / security was now deficient and that Bank might join in / lead any action against their valuer.  Bear in mind that Zippee almost certainly paid the bill for the bank's valuation and that Bank valuer's are usually drawn from a professional panel of surveyors and are required to have a significant amount of Professional Indemnity Insurance.  May not be a runner but looks like there is plenty of scope to seperately pursue seller / agent / own surveyor.  

As somebody that continues to live in a previously flooded property, if I could turn back the clock I would not have purchased in what is now a recognised floodzone.  it may never flood again but you must live with the risk every day and get spooked every time we get heavy / pluvial rain - which is an increasingly regular phenomenon in this country.  

If its an option to rescind the contracts, back out and start searching again I would do so.  Its very much a buyer's market and there are plenty of good properties available that are not at risk of flooding.  Just make sure to inform yourself on the location of Dublin's underground rivers such as the Poddle and The Swan that could be passing near your back garden but you will never see them or know of their existence until they flood, as happened in my case.  It would be worth investigating how often the property / area has flooded and likelihood of flooding again.  The length of time that the water remained in the house - minutes / hours / days is also relevant as the longer it was there the higher the risk of contamination.  Neighbours could probably clarify that quickly.  Apparently RSA claim to have a sophisitcated flood predicition model for most areas that you might be able to access or at least check the OPW Floodmap website as suggested by a previous poster.

It makes sense to try to freeze the sellers assets too unless they have already been grabbed by a mortgage bank that was owed.  

Its dreadful to find yourself in this situation when you should be enjoying the excitement of your new home but stick with your case and dig in for a battle.


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## extopia (20 Nov 2013)

Was interested in this story and wondered what had happened - looks like zippee got the vendor to reverse the sale - the story continues here:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=180325


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