# Theres a house being raffled in Co. Waterford for €25 per ticket. T&C's? Legality



## Ash 22 (9 Jul 2009)

Theres a house being raffled in Co. Waterford for 25 euro per ticket. Sounds a fantastic prize for whoever wins. Can anybody do this type of raffle? Details on [broken link removed]  I'm looking at terms and conditions no. 22 where it says the promoter reserves the right to amend them at any time, does that seem right?


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## ajapale (9 Jul 2009)

Moved from  Askaboutlaw to Buying and Selling Homes


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## shesells (9 Jul 2009)

The Gaming and Lotteries act covers all raffles and if this were a pure raffle it would be in breach of the act BUT the fact that there's a question involved may be a way at getting around that.


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## mathepac (9 Jul 2009)

I can't see where this draw or the promoter has been granted a lottery licence. The wording in the T&C's  is a bit strange as is the blurb e.g.  "... a much sort after area ..."

The property prize has a notional value of €1m (no indication of a valuer's name) but the promoter intends to raise €1.4m (€25 x 56,000).

I won't be buying a ticket, and not just because the address is "Cuckoo's Nest".


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## Ash 22 (9 Jul 2009)

I presume it does'nt matter if somebody has the the answer to the question wrong they're still entered into raffle.


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Jul 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> I presume it does'nt matter if somebody has the the answer to the question wrong they're still entered into raffle.




I've read the 'rules' and can't see anything about what happens if the question is answered incorrectly.

Maybe that's where yer man can change the T&C's later on to disqualify entries with wrong answers!

No. 35 is an interesting one:

The Promoter will be entitled to retain up to 45% of the Entry Fees to cover administration and marketing expenditure. The remaining balance following deduction of this sum is "The Prize Fund". The Prize Fund will then be distributed to the winning Entrant.

In Feb 2010 he can decide, having not reached his 56,000 sales to keep 45% of the entry money and raffle the rest off ... and keep the house .... 

a nice little earner.

The site makes no mention of/reference to (that I can see) authorised permission or compliance with any lotteries act.

Be interesting what more of the legal eagles will say about this thread.


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## Ash 22 (9 Jul 2009)

PaddyBloggit said:


> No. 35 is an interesting one:
> The Promoter will be entitled to retain up to 45% of the Entry Fees to cover administration and marketing expenditure. The remaining balance following deduction of this sum is "The Prize Fund". The Prize Fund will then be distributed to the winning Entrant.
> In Feb 2010 he can decide, having not reached his 56,000 sales to keep 45% of the entry money and raffle the rest off ... and keep the house ....
> a nice little earner.


 


That certainly is a very interesting point you have there. 
We await developments.


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## CorkGuy12 (10 Jul 2009)

It seemed odd that there is only one picture of the house on the website, but
from the FAQ - 


> Q. So is any one living in the house now?
> A. No the house will be finished to a high standard and the lucky winner will be able to move straight in.



So it's not even finished yet, so looks like some of the proceeds will be used to finish it off!


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## Rois (10 Jul 2009)

I want to sell my house at the moment so is raffling it a real possibility judging by the t&cs above i'd have nothing to lose..


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## Robin Banks (10 Jul 2009)

not this rubbish again

[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


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## Robin Banks (10 Jul 2009)

Rois said:


> I want to sell my house at the moment so is raffling it a real possibility judging by the t&cs above i'd have nothing to lose..


 
eh, you just need to reduce your asking price.


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## Ash 22 (10 Jul 2009)

I see another one going in Co. Kilkenny [broken link removed] where tickets are 99 euro and you must correctly answer an initial question, then at the end 3 tickets are picked out and you must again be successful in a quiz type thing. The quiz seems to be the way around it ok from what I can see.


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## NorfBank (10 Jul 2009)

If you have ever seem those car raffles at the airport, pay €60 and you can win a Aston Martin, you have to do a spot the ball competition to win so it is not lottery or a raffle, it is a "skill based game".
This gets around the need for a lottery licence. I presume the question is asked for the same reason.


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## rory22 (10 Jul 2009)

Whats the second prize? 2 houses maybe?
Oh how times have changed.


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## Vinnie_cork (10 Jul 2009)

Robin Banks said:


> not this rubbish again
> 
> [broken link removed]


 
What happened with this raffle? did it go ahead? was there a winner? or did the idea flop?


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## dewdrop (10 Jul 2009)

Unfortunately i dont know how to highlight references but a colourful person, Barney Curley, i think tried raffling his house and the outcome makes interesting reading.


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## paddyd (10 Jul 2009)

NorfBank said:


> If you have ever seem those car raffles at the airport, pay €60 and you can win a Aston Martin, you have to do a spot the ball competition to win so it is not lottery or a raffle, it is a "skill based game".
> This gets around the need for a lottery licence. I presume the question is asked for the same reason.



+1. Having a silly question gets around the need to have a licence. This is what a lot of those SMS services do too; the dodgy late-night ones, but also the legit ones such as the Late Late Show


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## Ash 22 (11 Jul 2009)

What I don't like is where in no.22 it says that the promoter, who is the owner of this house can amend the terms and conditions at any time. Is that the usual situation? Sounds strange to me.


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## DrMoriarty (11 Jul 2009)

Robin Banks said:


> not this rubbish again
> 
> [broken link removed]
> [broken link removed]


 
From the second website:


> This competition is now closed and all entrants have been refunded.
> If there are any issues please contact conor@yournewhomeni.com


 
Here's the Barney Curley story.


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## Robin Banks (11 Jul 2009)

If anyone wants to enter the correct answer to the question is B - 210,600 sqft.

Good luck


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## Ash 22 (11 Jul 2009)

Thank you Robin Banks. I think you can't go wrong with 25 euro. I tried one last year in Co. Longford, maybe second time lucky!


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## gotsomenow (14 Jul 2009)

I see Paypal have cut off his account.  Hmmm, they normally do this when you don't have the correct paperwork to operate an account legally under some European Money Laundering protection law.


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## maggieO (14 Jul 2009)

Dunno think its worth a punt... fab house. how did you work out the answer Robin?


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## PaddyBloggit (15 Jul 2009)

gotsomenow said:


> I see Paypal have cut off his account.  Hmmm, they normally do this when you don't have the correct paperwork to operate an account legally under some European Money Laundering protection law.




I see he's back to the An Post route ....

[broken link removed]


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## truthseeker (16 Jul 2009)

maggieO said:


> Dunno think its worth a punt... fab house. how did you work out the answer Robin?


 
Convert the acreage of the total land to square feet and then subtract off each room size.

Im half inclined to buy a ticket but I really dont know if its a 'real' raffle!!


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## Binomial (17 Jul 2009)

If one had suspicions about the legality/illegality of an internet raffle operation how would one go about reporting the matter to the authorities?

In such a case who would be the relevant authority? the Guards?


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## oilpainting (20 Jul 2009)

A friend told me that her friend had won a similar house in Donegal  a few years ago in the same way, and there was no strings attached. I was wondering if it was a con but this one went exactly as stated and she has a beautiful house in Donegal to show for.


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## hope4711 (20 Jul 2009)

People think that just because a question is asked that this makes it a test of skill and brings it outside the gaming and lotteries act.  This is not the case.  The case law shows that once there is any element of chance it is not a game of skill but a lottery - AG v Healy 1972 IR 393


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## beads (2 Jan 2010)

hello Robin banks,  how did you come up with answer b 210,600 sq ft as the answer to the 25 euro house? on their website it state the house sits on 5 acres, which is  217, 800 sq ft. 

please reply thanks


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## Robin Banks (3 Jan 2010)

What is the Square feet of the land *minus the total square feet of the house?*


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## beads (3 Jan 2010)

hello robin banks, thank you for reply.  Maths was never my strong point.  I think it is worth buying a ticket,you have saved me from buying a ticket with the wrong answer.


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## brownie (19 Jan 2012)

Hi all,new here, came across this searching Google. I was wondering if i was to sell key rings or some thing along those lines for 50 or 500 euro what ever the case may be.  Then with every key ring you buy you would be entered into a free draw to win a house is that a way round all these laws.


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