# RTE Programme on surrogacy.



## Sunny (14 Jan 2014)

Did anyone watch this last night? It was about an Irish couple using an Indian woman to be a surrogate. I am not sure what this couple were thinking allowing cameras but I found it extremely uncomfortable to watch it. There were so many elements to the story that just made me feel uneasy. From what I gather today, I wasn't the only one. Shame because this is a topic that deserves to be talked about but this couple couple were not right for this programme no matter how decent or well intentioned they were.


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## blueband (14 Jan 2014)

the trick with tv programs is never to take them too serious, they are really only set up for a bit of entertainment. its all about viewing numbers at the end of the day..


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## Sunny (14 Jan 2014)

blueband said:


> the trick with tv programs is never to take them too serious, they are really only set up for a bit of entertainment. its all about viewing numbers at the end of the day..



This wasn't entertainment.


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## fobs (15 Jan 2014)

Found it very uncomfortable watching. Felt if legislation is put forward cases like this should not be allowed. Do not agree with surrogacy for financial gain. It would be ok between siblings for example for altruistic reasons but this felt the same as buying organs abroad.


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## liaconn (15 Jan 2014)

I was particularly disturbed about the implanting of several embryos as 'insurance' with the agreement that any more than two foetus will be aborted (I can't remember the exact term they used). That chilled me.


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## blueband (15 Jan 2014)

Sunny said:


> This wasn't entertainment.


 as far as RTE are concerned it was......I take it you watched the programme so that proves the point!


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## Sunny (15 Jan 2014)

blueband said:


> as far as RTE are concerned it was......I take it you watched the programme so that proves the point!


 
What are you talking about?


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## Purple (15 Jan 2014)

blueband said:


> as far as RTE are concerned it was......I take it you watched the programme so that proves the point!



I sometimes watch the news on RTE. Does that make it entertainment?


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## blueband (15 Jan 2014)

I would say most everything that gets broadcast is a form of entertainment in one form or another...


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## Ceist Beag (15 Jan 2014)

I would say you're wrong....


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## blueband (15 Jan 2014)

Ceist Beag said:


> I would say you're wrong....


 that is your right....


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## Firefly (15 Jan 2014)

Purple said:


> I sometimes watch the news on RTE. Does that make it entertainment?



It can be, depending on the weather girl


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## Purple (15 Jan 2014)

Firefly said:


> It can be, depending on the weather girl



That's TG4 you're thinking of. It's all entertainment to me as I can't understand a word they say


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## Duke of Marmalade (15 Jan 2014)

[broken link removed]should make it clear that TV is *not* entertainment. 

FTSE has two industry sectors _53 Leisure Entertainment and Hotels_ and _54 Media and Photography. _

TV is is listed as subsector 543.


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## STEINER (15 Jan 2014)

fobs said:


> Found it very uncomfortable watching. Felt if legislation is put forward cases like this should not be allowed. Do not agree with surrogacy for financial gain. It would be ok between siblings for example for altruistic reasons but this felt the same as buying organs abroad.



I didn't watch it.  

Surrogacy for financial gain has been described as rent a womb, but for some people it is the only option to have a child.  

There was a moment on the Graham Norton BBC1 TV show a few weeks ago.  Surrogacy wasn't being discussed or referenced.  The movie Philomena was being plugged with Dame Dench and Steve Coogan, somebody mentioned the nasty nuns took Philomena's baby and sold the baby.  Elton John looked a bit sheepish on the couch!


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## Marion (16 Jan 2014)

I know somebody (A single male)  who has an absolutely beautiful child via the surrogacy route. 

I am very happy for him

Marion


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## Sunny (16 Jan 2014)

Marion said:


> I know somebody (A single male) who has an absolutely beautiful child via the surrogacy route.
> 
> I am very happy for him
> 
> Marion


 
Surrogacy itself isn't the problem. The problem with the programme was the number of other disturbing factors. 

The couple were in their mid 50's. They each had children albeit with other people and decided they wanted a child together. Some people will say fair enough but then we find out that the mother will have no biological link to the children. They are using another Indian woman's eggs for the process. Therefore her relationship to these children is no different to her relationship with her partners existing children.

We then see them go off to India and meet the surrogate mother. They meet her briefly. We then find out the reasons why the woman is doing it (poverty) and we find out that she will have to spend her pregnancy in a house with other surrogates sharing a room with 4-5 other women and she is not allowed to leave. The Irish couple weren't allowed to see the house but were shown pictures. It looked grim. 

Then they talk about the process and obviously the more embryos they implant, the higher the chance of success. They implant three embryo's but knowing that the maximum that the clinic will allow succeed is two i.e. twins. Of course as luck would have it, all three end up viable but as the clinic will only allow two, one has to be terminated. 

Then for the birth, the Irish couple are not allowed to be there. They are handed the babies but are not allowed to see the surrogate. They are simply told she is fine.

We then see the legal situation with the child. The woman has no legal rights to the children whatsoever. If the man was to die tomorrow with no will made, the children would be left without a guardian or if the couple were to split up, she would have no rights.

The children themselves are left Stateless. Neither the Indian Government or the Irish Government consider them citizens and they had to travel back on emergency documents and now the couple face another legal battle to try and obtain Irish Nationality.

The whole thing was just disturbing.


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## Kine (16 Jan 2014)

Sunny said:


> We then see the legal situation with the child. The woman has no legal rights to the children whatsoever. If the man was to die tomorrow with no will made, the children would be left without a guardian or if the couple were to split up, she would have no rights.


 
I don't want to drag this off topic, but isn't this the same as an Irish couple with a biological child - mother dies (with ni will) and the father has no legal right to the kid?


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## michaelm (16 Jan 2014)

Sunny said:


> The whole thing was just disturbing.


Disturbing at best.  IMO it's a disgrace.


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## Purple (16 Jan 2014)

Kine said:


> I don't want to drag this off topic, but isn't this the same as an Irish couple with a biological child - mother dies (with ni will) and the father has no legal right to the kid?



Yes, if they are unmarried.


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## liaconn (20 Jan 2014)

STEINER said:


> I didn't watch it.
> 
> Surrogacy for financial gain has been described as rent a womb, but for some people it is the only option to have a child.!



True, but a 'right' to have a child shouldn't supercede all other considerations. In this situation the couple's feeling that they were entitled to have a baby together seemed to override any considerations about exploiting vulnerable women, aborting the third foetus,and bringing the children into a potentially messy situation where their legal status is uncertain, it will be difficult for them to ever find their natural biological mother, and their father and mother will be in their seventies by the time they are sitting their leaving certificate.


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