# Architect's Fees - No fee proposal



## MiniMax (20 Feb 2011)

Hi all,

I engaged an architect to design a house for me and bring it to planning. Every time I asked for a fee proposal, I was told that they would sort one out for me, but I never got it. When I received the design, it was totally unrealistic, beyond what I could even afford to build. I told them that the plans would have to be revised, but around the same time, a number of things happened to me personally, so I never proceeded with a planning application. 

A year later, I received an outrageous bill from the firm. I contacted them and told them that while I was prepared to pay them a reasonable fee, the fee they were suggesting was crazy, and given that they had never provided me with a quote, I didn't feel that they could justify the bill. They continued to insist on the full fee in all subsequent correspondence, which was sporadic, and continued for two years. I even called to their offices to discuss the matter in person, but the meeting was very hostile, and ultimately fruitless. I think that they are in financial difficulty, and they are trying to screw me for money. 

I have just received a Solicitor's letter demanding payment of the full amount.

I am wondering what the obligation is on an architect to provide a client with a fee proposal? Can they sue me for this money? I can't afford to pay them, and certainly can't afford to go to court. I don't know what to do. 

Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

MM


----------



## Shane007 (20 Feb 2011)

MiniMax said:


> I have just received a Solicitor's letter demanding payment of the full amount.
> 
> I am wondering what the obligation is on an architect to provide a client with a fee proposal? Can they sue me for this money? I can't afford to pay them, and certainly can't afford to go to court. I don't know what to do.


 
Yes they can sue you, but it will be upto the presiding judge who hears the case who will win the case and who will be liable for court costs.

Since they have already proceeded to send you a solicitor's letter, you should seek the advice of a professional, i.e. your own solicitor or even at least go to Citizen's Advice Bureau.

Unless the amount is such an amount that it is worth taking you to court for, I would imagine that it is only scare mongering at this stage. My advice is to reply in writing through a solicitor explaining the situation and also your financial circumstances. Then wait and see. It could take them another couple of years to even get a hearing date and that accepting a mutual agreement/arrangement may also be in their best interest.


----------



## Docarch (20 Feb 2011)

If a fee was not agreed up front or prior to work starting I do not believe the architect would succeed in suing you.  

I have to say that it is unprofessional for an architect not to have outlined fees before starting the work.  If it were me (as an architect) I wouldn't even bother pursuing the money through a solicitor unless I had a written acceptance of my fee proposal from a client.

What do you do now?  As Shane 007 above suggests, now that you have received a solicitors letter, you need to take advice from your solicitor and have your solicitor write back.


----------



## threebedsemi (20 Feb 2011)

If the architect in question is a member of the RIAI they are obliged to work within the requirements of the RIAI Code of Conduct and the RIAI appointment documents.

You can obtain copies of these from the RIAI and see what they say regarding undertaking work without having agreed fees etc. 
You can also ask the RIAI to review the practices of this architect. Since all the fuss regarding registration of title etc. last year, they will be keen to be seen to uphold consumer rights. They will most likely recommend mediation/conciliation in the first instance, which is optional and is unlikely to resolve the matter in this case.


----------



## MiniMax (20 Feb 2011)

Thanks for your replies.  

I have checked the RIAI website, but the code doesn't stipulate anything about a fee proposal, and it seems I need to be a member to get further information on the appropriate procedure when dealing with clients. 

It looks as though I have no option but to go to a solicitor, but I'll wait until Friday before doing that, so if anyone has any further information before then (especially if you have experience of this type of thing), I would be most grateful. 

Thank you.

MM


----------



## PaddyBloggit (20 Feb 2011)

Why wait until Friday?

You need to respond to the letter you received. Get onto a solicitor Monday morning.

Don't delay.


----------



## onq (20 Feb 2011)

Hi Minimas

First, don't panic about the solicitor's letter.
This has gone around the houses for two years.
Most solicitors letters allow a week to two weeks to respond.
Check what it says an when it was dated and try to reply in a reasonable time.
If there is no time just instruct your solicitor to deal with the matter on your behalf.
Some will issue a holding letter, confirming receipt and saying they are considering their response or whatever.
Others may actually ignore the matter - you'd be surprised at the kind of hardball solicitors offices play amongst each other.

Second, let's get a couple of queries out of the way first.


 Did you sign a letter of appointment?
 Did it refer to a fee proposal?
 
If the answer to these questions is "no" and you were a hard ass you could take a tough position.
You could take the view that your  initial discussions with them never went forward beyond an outline brief  and their inappropriate proposals reflect this.
You could do this - if you were a hard-ass.

=============================

However I think its more likely you could be in the position of a recent client of mine  who many years ago appointed an architect to design a building.
The  archiiect came back with unworkable designs, and in one case was the  subject of critical comment by the local authority where it appeared he  had not taken on board their specific requirements.
He sued for full fees to planning stage and my clients difficulty, according to his solicitor, was that he never  instructed him to stop and he allowed work to continue without a fee  being agreed.

This is reflected in your own position, where you did not accept the initial proposal and discussed a further  revision, but even then you did not get or press for a fee estimate or proposal to be  agreed.
Most important, you did not than instruct him to stop.

=============================

I agree with threebedsemi that the RIAI mediation route is a reasonable  option.
I think you should definitely consider going down this path if you want to show  the judge that you tried to be reasonable and acted to mitigate your loss.

=============================

However I have another suggestion - several actually, centring on registration.
Check with the RIAI website to see if this architect is currently registered.
If he is unregistered it is an offence for him to use the Title Architect.

#1

 If he us unregistered and is neither an MRIAI nor assessed separately for Registration he  cannot become registered.
This could turn out to be a serious matter for  him if he takes you to court.
After all, he's charging you fees _as an architect_.

#2

If he is an MRIAI but has not paid his annual fee his name may not be on the Register.
This is a technical breach, since he is eligible to be registered, but  still a breach.
The offence is one of "not being registered" and this may hold across the board.
You may be able to use this to bring him to the table  and do a deal.

#3

Even if he is registered and/or a Member of the Institute there may be another issue.
Members of the Institute were entitled to automatic registration by Part  3 of the Building Control Act 2007 which came in on 1st May 2008, but registration only commenced on 16th November 2009.
Thus between May 1st 2008 and 16th November 2010 there was an 18-month interregnum  during which it was an offence to use the Title if you were  unregistered, but it was impossible to register.
If he worked for you during this period and represented himself to you  as an architect during this time, he may be guilty of an offence under  Section 18 of the Act - ask your solicitor to check this.
Putting this in your defense to his solicitor may soften his cough enough to make him more likely to deal with you on fees.

In all cases you should refer him to the RIAI/Registrar and the Minister for the Environment.

=============================

As a matter of course, you should instruct your solicitor to ask to seek evidence of his Professional Indemnity insurance.
I'm not sure if this is mandatory, but its certainly wise to have if  you're doing any building work or advising on commercial projects.
Health and safety can play such a big part in litigation and Designers have unavoidable obligations under the Health and Safety legislation
Again, if he's not got this cover, instruct your solicitor to ask him to confirm why he is charging you so much.

=============================

Under the heading of due diligence ask for an hourly breakdown of work done, including a record of  all calls and e-mails.
This may make him realise the reality of  the situation in terms of work done and may help break the deadlock.

=============================

Finally and for the record, what size was the house and what was the amount charged for the Fee?

HTH

ONQ.

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied       upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal   action     be    taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in          Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the   matters    at     hand.


----------



## Superman (20 Feb 2011)

the architect can only charge a reasonable fee at most, on a quantum meruit basis. Arguably they can't charge anything - if they did something which did not meet your needs in any way (a possible breach of contract) or if they were not authorised (expressly or impliedly) to carry out the design. 

If they are in the RIAI, complain to the RIAI - they have not complied with the code of practice (fee agreed before work started) and may guilty of misconduct. 
Also seek mediation at the RIAI - if successful, you'll avoid the costs of the courts.


----------



## MiniMax (21 Feb 2011)

Thank you all for your help. I cannot get time off work until Friday (in this climate, I am in no position to argue), plus I have to get all my paperwork together before I go into the solicitor. 

The architect was registered at the time, and still is. I have written to the RIAI, and hope to get a reply soon. I believe that they have not provided me with the service which I requested, especially since the design was not viable, but also since I had asked them to bring it to planning, and they didn't. I am just concerned that, as onq says, I didn't tell them to stop (because they kept saying they would sort out a quote), and therefore I am going to have to find a way to pay for this. It's awful. I didn't get anything from them, they ignored my requests for a quote, and now they get to take advantage of that fact in order to charge me through the nose. 

Thanks for all your help.

MM


----------



## Luckycharm (21 Feb 2011)

MiniMax said:


> Thank you all for your help. I cannot get time off work until Friday (in this climate, I am in no position to argue), plus I have to get all my paperwork together before I go into the solicitor.
> 
> The architect was registered at the time, and still is. I have written to the RIAI, and hope to get a reply soon. I believe that they have not provided me with the service which I requested, especially since the design was not viable, but also since I had asked them to bring it to planning, and they didn't. I am just concerned that, as onq says, I didn't tell them to stop (because they kept saying they would sort out a quote), and therefore I am going to have to find a way to pay for this. It's awful. I didn't get anything from them, they ignored my requests for a quote, and now they get to take advantage of that fact in order to charge me through the nose.
> 
> ...


 
Do you have any e-mails/anything in writing of you asking for a quote or any responses because I reckon you could nail them if you did.


----------



## Docarch (21 Feb 2011)

The RIAI Code of Professional Conduct, Clause 2.10: 

_“A member, *when undertaking* an architectural commission, shall confirm in writing the scope of the professional services to be provided, the fee arrangements and, as appropriate, the essential requirements of the project and any special circumstances and conditions relevant to the commission.”
_
_ 
_


----------



## onq (21 Feb 2011)

Members of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland were honoured with an automatic right to registration under the Bulding Control Act 2007, based on their professional competence.
As has been stated many times in many forums sonce May 1st 208 when this provision came into Irish Law, passing an exam or a set of projects does not guarantee integrity.
It will look bad if one of a Member of Member Practice is seen to follow less than competent design practice with sharp practice regarding the billing of fees.

- as Docarch says, there is a code which is supposed to guide their professional conduct.
- as Luckycharm says, the paper trail, electronic or RL, will tell the story.

If you do not have a written record of having asked them to provide a fee quotation, you or your solicitor should assert that you did so and see if they rebut this assertion in writing.
You should be quite specific about it - "On or about 15th of September 2008 I requested a written confirmation of your professional fees for this work" - or words to that effect.
If they fail to rebut this in a formal exchange of comments, that is as good as an admission or a position of "no contest" and you can point to this in any later proceedings.

If this all goes pear shaped, there are many fine Members of the Institute who take a dim view of other Members not living up to the Code.
Thus you may find some of these MRIAI's - or other professionals - are willing to support your claims of poor performance from this firm.

However one of the issues to be decided will center on what proportion of fees is chargeable for the services rendered to date.
In reachign a decision, any reviewer will want to form an opinion of the gross costs of the development.
In the absence of an hourly rate, or overall limit, the percentage of costs method may apply.

Its important therefore to either discover or make a record of any instructions.
The important ones include the size and type of house and quality of finish.
Record whether any special services were either requested or warranted.

It is likely that some monies are due and are likely to be awarded.
Claiming that no monies are due after this time is may not work.
You task therefore is to credibly reduce the claim of fees.

HTH

ONQ.

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied        upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal    action     be    taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise  in          Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the    matters    at     hand.


----------

