# Solar Water Rough Costs



## RugbyBoy (30 Jul 2012)

Hi,

Anybody got ballpark costs for supply and fit of soalr how water system
Thinking of 300l tank with tubes joule or similiar

RB


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## lowCO2design (5 Aug 2012)

300l for family of four 3-5k


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## DGOBS (6 Aug 2012)

IMHO solar water is a waste of time and money, look into installing solar that not only can heat your water, but can also contribute directly as a preheater to your central heating as this gives a much better return on investment.


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## itsallwrong (14 Aug 2012)

Totally agree with DGOBS. OP - do some serious homework to see how solar works.
The pile of lies the solar industry have fed people is a joke.
And there is the thorny issue of the whole industry being way over priced in this country.

You can do weekend DIY courses in europe how to put them in.
Here we are told it's splitting the atom and you need a grant.
Also bear in mind most of the tube systems are made in China and tests have shown
a lot of them underperform.


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## Shane007 (14 Aug 2012)

Totally disagree! Solar thermal gives a very useful contribution to reducing energy costs and probably more for DHW. It is not splitting the atom but most certainly not a DIY job. You are dealing with potentially very high temperatures with possible high pressures if not installed correctly. 
Installation courses here are only 3 days but have entry requirements such as suitably qualified trades!


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## seawinds (16 Aug 2012)

I was searching the web and solar panel installation seemed very costly. Anyone any views as to rough payback period on solar water heating system.


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## InfoSeeker (16 Aug 2012)

Installed solar panels in March purely for water as we have a few kids, have had excess roasting water everyday & we use a power shower so that would use a lot of litres especially for the fairer sex!! No idea on return on investment, etc but filled oil tank for 1100 euro in March and have not touched it yet. We find it very convenient, initially we were not sure and got several quotes which ranged in price a lot but in the end we are very happy we went through with this.


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## Leo (16 Aug 2012)

seawinds said:


> I was searching the web and solar panel installation seemed very costly. Anyone any views as to rough payback period on solar water heating system.


 
The convenience factor as mentioned by InfoSeeker is usually a more compelling argument than ROI. 

To calculate ROI, you need to work out what you're currently spending on heating water. That will depend on the number of people in the house, usage patterns and heat source. 

Getting solar installed will cost from close to €3k and up, depending on panel size, tank size, and other factors. 

Using an immersion element to heat water will consume a maximum of 3 units of electricity per hour, using a 10kW electric shower will use a maximum of 10 units of electricity per hour. Standard rate of electricity is currently 18c per unit.

If you take a rough guess of how long your shower runs for on an average day, and how long you have the immersion on for, you'll be able to work out a good indicative cost. How long before that reaches €3k?  (If you use gas or oil to heat the water as part of your heating system, then your costs are likely to be lower again)

Keep in mind that there will be additional maintenance costs with a solar system, and parts will need to be replaced over time (check the warranty period of all components) and make a call on whether it makes sense. Only you can decide what the convenience factor is worth to you.

For me, ROI was going to be 10 years before any maintenance or replacement costs were included, so wasn't worth it.


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## RugbyBoy (17 Aug 2012)

Hi All,

thanks for all the infor very useful.

I actually had solar installed in a previous residance and with the benefit of hindsight would have approached it differently. It cost too much and have a glycol blow out at one stage which cost me money

Thats said I believe solar is a good idea providing you get the right install at the right price


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## OkeyDokey (24 Aug 2012)

Leo said:


> For me, ROI was going to be 10 years before any maintenance or replacement costs were included, so wasn't worth it.


 
10 years sounds good to me.

From what I have read a solar tube system should last at least 20 years. 

I had a solar system installed last year and I'm happy with it's performance so far. I figured it will take about 13 years to pay for itself based on current energy prices.


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## lowCO2design (29 Aug 2012)

seawinds said:


> I was searching the web and solar panel installation seemed very costly. Anyone any views as to rough payback period on solar water heating system.


circa 7 years


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## OkeyDokey (29 Aug 2012)

lowCO2design said:


> circa 7 years



We were also told seven years when quoted by two solar providers.

Do you have any figures to back that up?  I haven't been able to compare electricity bills with previous years. As I said above I'm very happy with my solar system.


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## Leo (30 Aug 2012)

OkeyDokey said:


> We were also told seven years when quoted by two solar providers.


 
How did they work this out? Did they take note of your daily hot water requirements? Did they look at how you currently heat water and the insulation levels on the current system? Also, did they measure your roof angle and aspect?

If they didn't do all these things, then they are just providing you with a ball-park estimate, and these estimates are generally based on ideal conditions and usage patterns and don't take any maintenance costs into account.


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## OkeyDokey (30 Aug 2012)

Leo said:


> How did they work this out? Did they take note of your daily hot water requirements? Did they look at how you currently heat water and the insulation levels on the current system? Also, did they measure your roof angle and aspect?
> 
> If they didn't do all these things, then they are just providing you with a ball-park estimate, and these estimates are generally based on ideal conditions and usage patterns and don't take any maintenance costs into account.



In fairness to them I think they did. The hot water cylinder was 50 years old with a badly fitting insulated jacket. 

The pitch and aspect were determined and the electric shower was used for heating the water. 

I tried to work it out based on using an electric shower for 35 to 40 minutes per day. I factored in a guesstimate saving of having a well insulated hot water cylinder and came to a figure of approximately 13 years. 

I also took into consideration the fact that we now have hot water in the kitchen and bathrooms when we wouldn't have had before without turning on the immersion.

I would love to see real figures backing up the seven year claim.

3500 / 7 = 500. I don't think we were paying 500 a year heating water. Probably half that would be a more accurate figure.


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## lowCO2design (30 Aug 2012)

RugbyBoy said:


> Anybody got *ballpark* costs for supply and fit of soalr how water system.





Leo said:


> How did they work this out? Did they take note of your daily hot water requirements? Did they look at how you currently heat water and the insulation levels on the current system? Also, did they measure your roof angle and aspect?
> 
> If they didn't do all these things, then they are just providing you with a ball-park estimate


yep


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## OkeyDokey (31 Aug 2012)

lowCO2design said:


> circa 7 years



Can you give us an example (meaning figures and calculations) where there is a 7 year payback?


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## itsallwrong (31 Aug 2012)

Exactly my point...
'based on ideal conditions and usage patterns and don't take any maintenance costs into account'

A constant omission by the Solar campaign.
The glaring fact of Solar systems being dressed up as all singing and dancing and the 
miracle answer to your hot water needs is something a lot of people have been sold.
Solar has a use in the correct conditons but people need to do their homework very carefully 
before they expect 'up to 70% of your hot water needs'!!!! and pay for it's self in a few years!!!


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## lowCO2design (31 Aug 2012)

OkeyDokey said:


> Can you give us an example (meaning figures and calculations) where there is a 7 year payback?


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## Shane007 (31 Aug 2012)

In general terms and from my personal and my clients feedback, for a solar domestic hot water installation with oil fired heating, approx 1/2 a fill of oil per annum is saved on average. Assuming it's a 1,000 litre fill, with today's prices that is approx €480 saving per year. Add in the convenience factor and the possibility of rising oil prices, the payback will decrease in time.
Obviously for families of only 2 persons, the savings will be less and with larger families, it will be more.
With all technologies, the payback must be less than the life expectancy of the unit, but must also be less than the "efficient lifespan" of the unit. For axample, the "efficient lifespan" of a boiler is 15 years as even the boiler is operating well, it is accepted that technology will be improved so much greater than the unit within the 15 years that replacement is warranted and the savings will payback again and the cycle begins all over.


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