# Inflated Salaries On Mortgage File.  Will Mortgage Provider Be Brought To Task?



## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

We had been asked to order a copy of our loan file from our provider, under the data protection act. After a very long period of time waiting, we finally received it. From first glance, there are discrepancies in both our salaries, which seemed to have been grossly exaggerated.  We would never have been sold this mortgage if it wasn't for whoever inflated our salaries.  We are fully aware we accepted the loan but in time our punishment will be to lose our home.  What will the punishment be of those that deliberatly lied about our financial status to get the mortgage through the system?


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## peteb (5 Mar 2012)

And you weren't aware of this?? Surely you must have signed the application??


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## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

Honestly, totally unaware of this. No P60 or bank statements were required. Three payslips from both of us were the order of the day and that was pretty much it. The loan application was sent to our solicitor with the value of the mortgage we were signing up to and no more. No mention of salaries were on any part of our agreement.


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## whatelse (5 Mar 2012)

Interesting. Something slightly similar with me, I was a student when I was given my mortgage but the person I was dealing with said they'd just put down I was qualified! Naive me!!


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2012)

Boomtobust said:


> We had been asked to order a copy of our loan file from our provider, under the data protection act. After a very long period of time waiting, we finally received it. From first glance, there are discrepancies in both our salaries, which seemed to have been grossly exaggerated.



Who inflated the salaries? 

Did you use a broker?  Was it he who inflated them? 

As Peteb says, you must have signed an application form. If you signed an application form which showed combined salaries of €50k and the bank changed it to €100k on their documentation "to get the loan through", then you may have a case.

But if you signed an application form with the incorrect salaries, you have no case. 

As an employer, I had to provide employees with letters setting out their salaries. And the banks always rang to check if the data on the letter was correct or to clarify some point about the bonus system or salary scales.

The application form and the letter should be on file. 

Was it a mainstream bank or a sub-prime lender?


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Mar 2012)

> We are fully aware we accepted the loan but in time our punishment will be to lose our home.



But are you not implying now that you should never have bought this home in the first place because you couldn't have afforded it?


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## wbbs (5 Mar 2012)

Have you copies of the payslips submitted?  Were they particularly good weeks maybe?

Unusual to need only payslips, where I worked we needed 3 different pieces of income documentation.   What lender?


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## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

The services of a broker was used. The broker is no longer in business. 

We are unsure if broker or provider inflated salaries.

Peteb, my apologies I misread your post. Yes we did sign an application form with the correct salaries stated. When we received a copy of our file we noted that somebody had crossed out our salaries and replaced them with much larger figures. Of course this would be difficult to prove that it was neither of us who made these changes.  We were totally unaware of these changes until now.


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## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But are you not implying now that you should never have bought this home in the first place because you couldn't have afforded it?


 
We were both self employed and felt certain that our income could only increase.  We could afford the payments at the time but when the business took a turn for the worst in the midst of the downturn we were only able to meet interest only payments.


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## Mrmr (5 Mar 2012)

Are you able to contact the broker and at least ask the Question?

If the figures were crossed and amended, someone should at least have initialed the changes. Usually then, new documentation is sent out by the bank for new signatures.

Just my opinion, but_ if _the broker changed the figures and the bank accepted this with no due diligence, no follow up, I think it is somewhat their fault.


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## 44brendan (5 Mar 2012)

The least you should do here is to submit a formal compalint to the Bank on the salary changes. It would be difficult to prove that there was any loss to you as a result of this action. I.e. you applied for and were granted a level of mortgage. However, there may be some case to be made now for allowing you additional leeway on your current position, if there was an acceptance that information leading to loan agreement was amended without your knowledge or approval.


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## sunnywalk (5 Mar 2012)

I am reading this with interest, something happened to me when i applied for a mortage in 2006.. funnily enough my mortgage was "changed" too before i drew it down. I actually requested 266 of a mortgage ( way under what i knew i could actually get) and the mortgage that i recieved was 281!!  I found out this when I was doing my paperwork with my solicitor, no idea where that figure came from.. i paid my 10% deposit etc. When i pointed it out the solicitor told me that to change the mortgage at that stage would be more trouble then it was worth!!.. I had gone through a broker too.. I agreed to leave it as it was and use the extra to furnish the house.. I did know what i was doing and was happy to agree to it..but its quite interesting isnt it?  The banks were literally throwing money at people regardless if they asked for it or not!!!


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## Wishes (5 Mar 2012)

It would be interesting to see who witnessed the OP's signature.  When I took out my mortgage my signature had to be witnessed.


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## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.  

First things first, we are not looking to worm our way out of our contract with the bank, contrary to the exaggerated application, we did accept the mortgage and take responsibility.  The reason I started this thread was to highlight the issue and also to bring it to the attention of others who maybe in a more depolrible financial postion than what we have found ourselves in and this maybe due to no fault of their own.


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## Alwyn (5 Mar 2012)

Mrmr said:


> Are you able to contact the broker and at least ask the Question?


 
The broker is no longer in business but yes we were able to make contact with him.  He denied all wrong doing and advised us to drop the situation for our own sake and to negotiate with the bank as best we can.  

To be fair to him he spoke to us at lenght and devulged one or two stories which leads me to believe it was not only us that similar has happened too.


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## Mrmr (5 Mar 2012)

Boomtobust said:


> He denied all wrong doing and advised us to drop the situation for our own sake



Well I think that's a little suspicious. OK, more than a little.

The next step is to make a formal complaint to the bank.


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## Alwyn (6 Mar 2012)

I send a letter to the bank by registered post.  Will keep this thread updated when I hear word.


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## Bronte (6 Mar 2012)

None of this story is news. During the boom any old salary slip, hyped up self employed income, false P60's etc were all the rage. So it would seem many mortgage applications forms were inflated and a complete culture by the banks of not checking them was practised. 

So how does it help the OP that the form is incorrect. Broker will never admit he changed figures. What would you sue the broker for in any case, the fact that you got a larger mortgage than you ought to have? Sue for the fact that you cannot now repay it. 

What if it was a bank clerk than modified the form, that person too will never admit they did it and even if they did could you sue them/the bank. What is the actual wrongdoing. Does changing the figures on a mortgage application form mean that you can get out of your mortgage which is the ultimate aim of this scenario. I wouldn't have thought so. 

At the end of the day, you signed the legal documents to take a certain sum of money at a certain mortgage interest rate. Your rights were explained to you by your solicitor and you agreed to the loan and signed for it. Presumably you knew what you were taking on and were happy that you could make the repayments.

I understand that you are trying to sort out your financial affairs, but cannot see how this will help you, the fact the form was modified. Because after that modification you signed for and took and began repayments on the mortgage.


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## wbbs (6 Mar 2012)

Loan application signatures are not officially witnessed, the loan offer/acceptance is signed with a solicitor so at that stage you know what you are getting.  

I worked in lending for many years and we always were very careful with salary info, double checking that the payslips matched the p60 and the salary certificate from employer and querying discrepancies.   However I know not all places were the same and a lot of the problems arose where loans came through third parties.

I have to say though it would not be uncommon for the figures on an application form  to be amended, not always upwards, but before submitting application to underwriting dept when checking salary info it might have been worked out incorrectly, too much overtime allowed or not enough for example so correction would be made.   It still had to be checked again and approved by underwriters.


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## Jonny (6 Mar 2012)

SURELY the broker should have been keeping a closer eye on his buisness  Having worked in this sector for many years we always operated a check list which was constantly referred to  One of the basics was to get the loan amount correct from initial application to drawdown !! The application form itself is not a legal document  IIts merely for information gathering purposes  The fact that is was changed along the way COULD be due to a change in underwriting criteria operated by the bank which in turn were a matter of policy for each lender I am not commenting on the wrongs & rights of what went on but the total lack of regulation is glaringly obvious


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## Alwyn (6 Mar 2012)

I am most certainly not looking to get out of this mortgage.  We are paying interest at present and hoping to return to full capital and interest payments as soon as we can sort ourselves out.  No bogus payslip or P60 was issued by either of us.  The bank have mislaid all our origional financial documents and the broker claims to hold no copies of documents.  

I do however agree that hyped up style payslips were the order of the day, but not in this case.

I have no interest in suing anybody, our aim is merely to show them that they were not without fault at the time.


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## Wishes (6 Mar 2012)

I have to agree that this is not particularly news. It is shocking non the less but it isn't news. 

I know of two brokers who were sitting cosy with some bankers.


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