# ..things you need to know about downlighters.....



## galwaytt (19 Jun 2009)

...is that apart from being a nuisance to fit, a pain to change bulbs in, they also fubar your airtightness and (more worryingly), are a fire hazard. So, to cure mine, I had to take the following (drastic..) measures.

First, you need to know why we need to do this:

1. A pic is worth a 1000 words.........it just sits there, as a hole. It has wires, transformer, and heat. Lots of heat. This is what they look like, from in the attic.......



2. You will need non-combustible material (I used Fermacell), but to make up 1 box for each downlighter. Yep, that's right, one for each one......and lids, as well btw......



3. You'll need to make up brackets, etc, for the corners of the boxes......




4. Join them all up, as they say, into actual boxes........




5. You'll end up with a large pile of them, which you have to hoik up to the attic......




6. Once in the attic, you'll need to head to the nether regions, to place them over the offending units.......safety first, boys'n'girls...very easy when you're tired to put a foot through your lovely ceilings...........



...and some are really, really awkward to get to, especially if you have to clamber over HRV systems, etc....




7. You'll locate the box over the unit (I stuck mine), and you'll have to notch the box to allow the cable(s) in......




8. ...Work your way along - if you have a floored attic...you'll have to take it up..........





9. Don't forget to fit the lids, and then you can insulate away to your hearts content (and re-fit flooring...).... 



There, all done. Sure that didn't hurt a bit, now did it ...??


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## chrisboy (19 Jun 2009)

Or else you could just buy downlighter tophats..


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## galwaytt (19 Jun 2009)

only if 

a) they fit where you want them to  (I've only shown the tidy ones)
b) you can get them...(none of the wholesalers down here stocked them..)
c) you feel like paying for them (I have loads of Fermacell...)


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## sydthebeat (19 Jun 2009)

..or install LED downlights??...


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## JERRY321 (19 Jun 2009)

hi you can buy fireproof covers for downlighters I paid €7.69 each inc vat, these covers meet all the fire regs


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## chrisboy (19 Jun 2009)

JERRY321 said:


> hi you can buy fireproof covers for downlighters I paid €7.69 each inc vat, these covers meet all the fire regs


 

Otherwise known as tophats!!


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## galwaytt (19 Jun 2009)

sydthebeat said:


> ..or install LED downlights??...


 
absolutely.

But there's a lot of non-LED's on shop shelves, yet.....


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## galwaytt (19 Jun 2009)

JERRY321 said:


> hi you can buy fireproof covers for downlighters I paid €7.69 each inc vat, these covers meet all the fire regs


 
..if the standard of fitting of those is anything like the std of fitting of downlighters themselves........I'll eat my (fire ) hat.    Yet to see a downlighter fitted according to instructions.

And, rigid boxes won't move or compress when your insulation guys come in...........


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## chrisboy (19 Jun 2009)

galwaytt said:


> absolutely.
> 
> But there's a lot of non-LED's on shop shelves, yet.....


 

Plus, they're quite expensive..


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## Sconhome (19 Jun 2009)

galwaytt said:


> b) you can get them...(none of the wholesalers down here stocked them..)



Mail order? Ring any electrical wholesaler and they'll happily courier whatever you need straight to your door.

Compliment you galwaytt on your inventiveness though. All you need now is certification. . .


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## DrMoriarty (19 Jun 2009)

Next week: How to resize your photos for web forums.


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## Sue Ellen (19 Jun 2009)

DrMoriarty said:


> Next week: How to resize your photos for web forums.



Trust the Doc.  He can always be relied upon


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## onq (20 Jun 2009)

JERRY321 said:


> hi you can buy fireproof covers for downlighters I paid €7.69 each inc vat, these covers meet all the fire regs



They don't seem to be airtight, nor do they protect the transformers.

Oddly enough neither do the little boxes, unless they are drilled with holes.

ONQ


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## wexford dude (22 Jun 2009)

galwaytt,

Your holes in the top of those boxes look v small.Would you not worry about internal over heating the boxes which is a v real fire hazard.
I trust you also allowed an air-hole in the attic flooring directly above the downlighter.
The depth of your attic insulation looks a bit shallow.Is the recession biting?


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## galwaytt (24 Jun 2009)

DrMoriarty said:


> Next week: How to resize your photos for web forums.


 
No actually, why bother if only to keep the smart arses something to write about ?



Sconhome said:


> Mail order? Ring any electrical wholesaler and they'll happily courier whatever you need straight to your door.
> 
> Compliment you galwaytt on your inventiveness though. All you need now is certification. . .


 no, and, er, no. 



onq said:


> They don't seem to be airtight, nor do they protect the transformers.
> 
> Oddly enough neither do the little boxes, unless they are drilled with holes.
> 
> ONQ


 Correct. They are not airtight. And yes, mine do protect the transformers. And no they are not 'little' - quite the opposite, in fact.



wexford dude said:


> galwaytt,
> 
> Your holes in the top of those boxes look v small.Would you not worry about internal over heating the boxes which is a v real fire hazard.
> I trust you also allowed an air-hole in the attic flooring directly above the downlighter.
> The depth of your attic insulation looks a bit shallow.Is the recession biting?


Well, 300mm of insulation is hardly 'shallow' ? As for the heating over the boxes - it's quite straightforward - the boxes are made of a Class 0 material. Insulation, and timber generally, is not. The boxes are also very considerably larger than the off-the-shelf 'hat - which is another thing I don't like about the hat. Way too easy for cables/trafo/light to make contact with the hat.  And you're forgetting that 'as fitted' it had the floor over AND no fire protection.  Like most houses, in fact.

So if people think that 'qualified' RECI-installed downlighters as in the first pic, with no protection, exposed to anything up/around it, including wood or loose insulation is a better, or even an acceptable solution......


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## NHG (24 Jun 2009)

We made our "boxes" out of fire plaster slabs, before re-insulating our attic earlier in the year (its in a post about attic insulation), looked at the fire hoods, but the transformer would still end up under the insulation so made the boxes large enough to accommodate everything, no breeze coming down through the lights now. Great job.


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## dj01 (24 Jun 2009)

Do you need firecovers if downlighters are in close proximity to rockwool? 

My understanding was it was fire resistant, but to what degree I don't know


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