# Hot water tank



## Little Joe (13 May 2009)

We are currently getting our 3 bed 2 storey house renovated. As part of the new heating sytem installation we wanted to move the hot water tank from the main bedroom upstairs to the utility room downstairs.

As space is limited we don't have many options and by doing this we will get some extra space in the bedroom by removing the hot press.

We would like to know if this is possible as generally hot water tanks seem to be installed upstairs.

Many thanks.
LJ


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## ninsaga (13 May 2009)

Have you considered putting it in the attic?


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## RVR (13 May 2009)

Hot water tanks are usually installed upstairs as they are often running on a gravity system /rely on gravity to feed the taps.

This was the traditional system installed but in new homes now the system is usually pressurised.

If you have a pressurised DHW system then there is no problem having the tank downstairs.  If not, you may be able to pressurise the system using a booster pump (depending on your tank / pipework quality etc).

You would really need to talk to a plumber but the above should give a good idea!


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## Little Joe (13 May 2009)

Thanks for the comments.

In the attic is a possibility alright and I must check with plumber re system type to be installed. We were considering a pumped system for the additional water pressure benefits, but this may not be needed if tank is located in the attic.

Thanks again.
LJ


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## DavyJones (13 May 2009)

RVR said:


> Hot water tanks are usually installed upstairs as they are often running on a gravity system /rely on gravity to feed the taps.
> 
> This was the traditional system installed but in new homes now the system is usually pressurised.
> 
> ...




This is widely belived but is incorrect. Location of cylinder will have no bearing on water pressure aslong as it is below the storage tank feeding it.

Pressure is dictated by the height of the storage tank(normally in attic) in relation to the outlet (tap).  Bascially the cylinder only allows water flow through it. So if you move cylinder to downstairs and don't move storage tank in attic, the outlet pressure will be exactly the same because head pressure hasn't changed.


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## theresa1 (22 Aug 2009)

Got a quote of €700 to replace old Hot water tank in bedroom. This sound right?


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## RugbyBoy (22 Aug 2009)

Sorry for jumping in

I need to repalce my boiler and tank soon also and was wondering if anyone could tell me what are the benefits of the pressurized system?

I currenty have hot water tank upstairs with a seperate pump for the shower

TIA
RB


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## DavyJones (22 Aug 2009)

theresa1 said:


> Got a quote of €700 to replace old Hot water tank in bedroom. This sound right?




Depeneds on type and size of cylinder. If it is a standard copper cylinder, 30" x 18", then it is far too much around €400 plus VAT would be normal.


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## DavyJones (22 Aug 2009)

RugbyBoy said:


> Sorry for jumping in
> 
> I need to repalce my boiler and tank soon also and was wondering if anyone could tell me what are the benefits of the pressurized system?
> 
> ...




are you referring to a pressurised heating or plumbing system?. If you have a pumped shower, it's may not be worth changing over.


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## RugbyBoy (22 Aug 2009)

DavyJones said:


> are you referring to a pressurised heating or plumbing system?. If you have a pumped shower, it's may not be worth changing over.




pressurised plumbing so that all the hot water comes out at pressue so no need for pumps. A friend said they are great but I am not sure

Thanks


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## DavyJones (22 Aug 2009)

RugbyBoy said:


> pressurised plumbing so that all the hot water comes out at pressue so no need for pumps. A friend said they are great but I am not sure
> 
> Thanks




Depends on a few factors, where you live, do you have good mains pressure? and do you have money to change over.

If you already have a pumped shower, if you change it over, the shower will probably be in and around the same. Although you will have good pressure everywhere else too, for me, the only place that is important is in the shower.

In my own home I have a low pressure system with pumped power showers and I wouldn't change it. 

If I wanted good pressure at all outlets now, I would remove shower pump and fit bigger pump. i would run hot and cold through it and have good pressure at all outlets. I don't think this is nescessary, and the extra noise would be annoying.think flushing a toilet at 4am and pump kicks in.

my advice is , it's probably not worth the expense to switch, when you have good power showers and can live with the pump. 

Here are some advantages and disadvantages to a pressurised system.

Advantages of pressure system.
1 lose big storage tank in attic
2 good pressure at every outlet (depending on mains feed)
3 Longer life of stainless steel cylinder.
4 quiet operation, no nosy pumps.

Disadvantages.

1 Expensive 
2 No storage water if mains is cut off (inc cold water- toilets etc)


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## RugbyBoy (24 Aug 2009)

Hi DavyJones,

Thanks a mill for the info. 

RB


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## you're gas (25 Aug 2009)

Hi Little Joe,

As part of your overhaul, why not replace your boiler with a Combination boiler. This is a boiler that provides heat for your living space and as much hot water as you require instantly. No hot water cylinder required so you save on space and much more efficient as you only heat the water you require.

A relatively new concept in the republic, they are all over the North and the UK. In fact most 'A' rated boilers sold in Ireland were designed as "combi" boilers and are sold here without the hot water heat exchanger.


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## MAJJ (25 Aug 2009)

you're gas said:


> Hi Little Joe,
> 
> As part of your overhaul, why not replace your boiler with a Combination boiler. This is a boiler that provides heat for your living space and as much hot water as you require instantly. No hot water cylinder required so you save on space and much more efficient as you only heat the water you require.
> 
> A relatively new concept in the republic, they are all over the North and the UK. In fact most 'A' rated boilers sold in Ireland were designed as "combi" boilers and are sold here without the hot water heat exchanger.


 
What are the advantages/disadvantages of combi boilers? As I am about to replace my boiler and possibly relocate my hot water cyclinder too, the attic in my case. 

Joe - hope you don't mind me asking this on your thread, seems relevant.


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## DGOBS (25 Aug 2009)

Don't consider a combi if you have more than one bathroom (including ensuites) as it will not live with your demand for hot water, when both are running

They are normally for small houses and apartments unless you spring for ones with 200ltrs or more of water storage, but the boiler starts getting very big (and expensive then)

Also, if you do go down that road, make sure you have a good clean (possibly treated) water supply and the correct minimum water pressure


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## you're gas (26 Aug 2009)

Until recently DGOBS, I'd have agreed whole heartedly with you and have in fact talked people out of their usage in the recent past.

Yes, they are thought of as only producing small quantities of water and being more suitable for small applications - I think alot of people's opinion would be fashioned from a mobile home holiday where the shower trickles and varies wildly from hot to cold. But *sizing the boiler correctly is critical*. And Yes you do need good water pressure - which is being addressed all over Dublin at the moment.

Yes you may be using a large boiler (both physical size and capacity - possibly 40kW for a 4 bedroom house) but it's usually housed in a cabinet/utility room that would have a footprint similar to a standard Boiler - and don't forget you're still saving the space of the hot water cylinder. Plus, the Heat output for your heating can be reduced to satisfy the requirment leaving the boiler firing at full capacity to heat the water as required.

I recently spent time in a Large 4 bed, 2 shower room and 1 bath in Kenmare fitted with an Immergas Combi. Was amased at the quantity of hot water at a constant temperature during showering and even more amazed when filling the bath (yes, i'm that sad -I'm amused by water teperature). Personally, I'm not usually a fan of Italian engineering, but in this case Immergas seem to have an excellent product - only spent a week in the house so don't know anything about the reliability of the boiler. I've also had a bit of experience recently with Worcester Combis - excellent products, expensive but also excellent warranties - 10 years on the Heat exchanger.

On cost, again you're correct they are more costly but on a new instal your saving on the cost of the hot water cylinder, stat and motorised valve. You also save over the life of the boiler on only heating the water you use.


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## Little Joe (26 Aug 2009)

I received the same response with regard to Combi Boilers i.e. only suitable for apartments etc. Currently we have got the house plumbed to relocate the hot water cylinder in a room under the stairs. We are going with a high efficiency boiler and motorised valves for zone heating. We have also installed 2 water tanks in the attic at recommendation of builder (not sure of advantage, but we are going ahead anyway).

Regards,
LJ


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## DavyJones (26 Aug 2009)

Have to agree with DGOBS, our water supply in this country is too unrealible. I fitted countless combi's in the UK where water pressure isn't an issue.

With combi's, what you save on one hand you lose on another, boiler breaks down, you have no heating or hotwater. no back up immersion to rely on. With the combi you only ever heat the water you need so will save on fuel costs. One other practical point on combi's are, getting someone to fix it if it breaks.

Like you, Your Gas, I have an unhealthy interest in water temp, both plumbing and heating. getting HE systems just right can be fun.


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