# car loan difficulty



## rossiewoman (27 Aug 2010)

this is my first post here.
i am at my wits end and any advice would be very well received
i bought a new car through a  garage on hire purchase in summer 2007. the deal was i was to pay 600 per month for 2 years and then a bubble payment of 20,000 euro at the end of the 2 years. i never missed a payment

hindsight is wonderful! unfortunately during those 2 years we had much turmoil and stress.my husband who had been self employed has had no work for the last 1.5 years and gets no financial support, so i am the main breadwinner for the household.

 i explained to the bank in summer 2009 that i could not meet the balloon payment and MABS got involved on my behalf. eventually, and after being subjected to awful aggressive phonecalls, they agreed to accept 300 euro per month for 1 year.i never missed a payment during the year.

when the year came to an end, the aggression started again. i explained that i could not make higher payments. they wanted 580 euro per month. i said that paying 300 was already a struggle

they told me that they would take the car off me as they would have no problem selling it. they wanted an increase to 400 euro per month so even though we are struggling to put food on the table here and keep all bills paid, i agreed.

i have made the 1st payment of 400 this month. i got a phonecall from a very unpleasant young man today who told me that this payment will be acceptable for 6 months and then it will be increased to 650 per month as they will not accept any more reschedules.

i just dont know what to do. our credit rating is bad due to previous mortgage arrears that we have now cleared. i am so upset. i know i have until next march to work something out but i am so sick of all of this. if i sold the car i would get less than what i still owe on it

please, if anyone has any advice will you pass it on
thanks


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## WindUp (27 Aug 2010)

You mentioned that the said they would take the car-- if they did , would that wipe the debt?


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## rossiewoman (27 Aug 2010)

if they took the car and sold it they would get far less for it than what i owe and i assume that i would be liable to pay the outstanding amount? but if they take the car, i wont have any transport at all. i wouldnt be able to get another laon to get another car because of poor credit rating and all of our savings are gone...so i dont know what to do


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## WindUp (27 Aug 2010)

Have you got a copy of the HP agreement? --Does the half rule apply?- in which case you should be able to just hand the car back given that you have paid approx half the full agreement at this stage. BTW, I do not think you will be able to sell the car yourself if it is under a HP agreement as you are technically only hiring it until the balloon payment is made. someone else might correct me if I am wrong....

Buy an old car with a good NCT if you can


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## rossiewoman (29 Aug 2010)

thanks for the reply WindUp. i looked at the agreement and i think teh ahlf rule would apply, but the problem then is i would have no transport and we haven't a cent to put towards buying another car, no matter how old it is.
thanks again


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## redbhoy (30 Aug 2010)

You should remind your 'lender' of section 11 of the non fatal offence against the person act.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0011.html

If you like, pay what you can towards the car finance per month. Let them bring you to court as no judge will do anything to you once you're making an effort. Beware though as those slimeballs will threaten you with court action and 3rd party debt collectors with which you have no contract so just ignore them. 
They might try to steal 'repossess' your car also so keep it off the main road when parking.
Have a read of Mary Crofts book on this site 
http://spiritualeconomicsnow.net/

Dont be getting stressed out over money and/or Financial Institutions.


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## pixiebean22 (30 Aug 2010)

I was put in a similar position by BOI over a personal loan.  

Redundancy, reduced repayments etc etc and while everything was agreed with them in writing I got a letter from a debt collection solicitor a few weeks ago completely out of the blue (i had kept up payments, with none missed and had received no correspondence from BOI saying they were engaging solicitors) demanding full payment of the loan.  I replied back after finding out as much as possible about the legal side of things as regards them agreeing to reduced repayments etc etc etc and now I have received a letter back from the solicitors realising they're in the wrong apologising for their actions.  I have since contacted BOI questioning their actions.

Try not to be too stressed as it is very very unlikely that any judge will do anything to you since you are making the agreed payments.


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## Betsygirl (30 Aug 2010)

It is not acceptable for the bank to be harrassing you if you are making every effort to pay back your loan. I would make a formal complaint to the bank and if they do not give a satisfactory response, I would refer my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. If you are making payments every month (even if they're not as much as the bank wants) then I think you might have good grounds for a complaint. Good luck!


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## rossiewoman (3 Sep 2010)

thanks for all the replies
redbhoy...what section 11 in plain english...i cant make head nor tail of it

i know i shouldn t be getting upset about this to the extent that i am but i really hate being in this predicament and feel like its constantly on my mind

just wondering though, if i made a complaint, would tht make things worse for me?


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## redbhoy (7 Sep 2010)

rossiewoman said:


> thanks for all the replies
> redbhoy...what section 11 in plain english...i cant make head nor tail of it
> 
> i know i shouldn t be getting upset about this to the extent that i am but i really hate being in this predicament and feel like its constantly on my mind
> ...


 
Basically no-one can chase you over a debt if it harms your health. I quoted this to an insurance company who were harassing me and then I was treated with kid gloves. (there really are rules there to protect people, you just need to go out and look for them)


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## demoivre (7 Sep 2010)

rossiewoman said:


> t if i sold the car i would get less than what i still owe on it



How much less? What are the numbers involved ie settlement figure versus realistic selling price of the car?


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## Bazzer01 (7 Sep 2010)

Hi Rossiewoman.
Don't let this stress you out. There are literally thousands of people in this situation, and the Banks / Finanace Companies do not want all of these cars back!! It should be possible to sort something mutually agreeable to both parties.

It's important as pointed out by Demoivre that you state
Make / Model/ Year of Car and current condition - also your best estimate of current value. I can confirm this back to you based on a large set of data which I have.
The details from the original Finance Agreement ( I presume it is Hire Purchase)
- Cash Price , trade in / deposit / charges and most importantly, Hire Purchase Price.
Also state 1/2 Hire purchase price as documented on your agreement.
Please also detail your instalment schedule (e.g. 36 X 999 followed by 1 x 20,000)
Finally , it might help if you state which Finance Company you have the Agreement with, as each have their own policies of dealing with these cases - it might help in deciding best approach for you.
If you post back the details above - I'll see what may be the best way to deal with it.


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## rossiewoman (8 Sep 2010)

thanks guys. do i just say to them that its affecting my health?....i dont think they would be too bothered to be honest


bazzer, could i pm you those details because i'm new to online forums and not sure about posting details publicly? no problem if not

thanks


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## Complainer (8 Sep 2010)

It is up to you to decide what you post in the public forum. I can't see how any of the information suggested by bazzer could identify you.

If you send them by PM, you will get the view of bazzer on these details. If you post them in public, you will get the views of many others. Take your pick.


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## Bazzer01 (8 Sep 2010)

I agree with Complainer ... the details won't identify you or compromise your position. If you post these details up here , I can give you back my opinion on the best way to proceed from knowledge of the day to day operations of the various Finance houses and their MO's in dealing with these situations. Posting here will let others give their opinions too. Ideally you will come to a compromise with the Finance Company which will be mutually acceptable to both of you ... I think that if you post the details requested in my last post above , this will help in coming up with the best strategy for you to propose to the Finance Company - as I said before , if there is any way of keeping the agreement alive , they will do that rather than take back a highly depreciated car and sell it at a significant loss.


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## Pope John 11 (8 Sep 2010)

demoivre said:


> How much less? What are the numbers involved ie settlement figure versus realistic selling price of the car?


 
OP this question has not been answered?


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## Mpsox (8 Sep 2010)

If I've done the maths right, you still owe around €16k.  Without knowing the full details of the car, if you sold it, you could still probably get a fair bit of that.  To me your options are 

Sell the car, pay off as much as you can and reschedule the remainder.
Get a credit union  loan for a smaller more affordable 2nd car
Get a credit union loan to pay off the €16k and don't sell the car


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## Bazzer01 (8 Sep 2010)

All - under the terms of a Hire Purchase agreement the hirer cannot sell the vehicle. That's why it's important to understand the figures.
If the hirer has paid > 1/3 of the Hire purchase price, the Owner CANNOT repossess the asset without a court order , which in the current environment might take up to a year to get! 
The hirer in any case is only liable up to 1/2 of the HP price , and can hand back the car without any liability beyond 1/2 the HP price (only extra would be cost of repairing any non regular damage to the car)
It's quite scary really how little people know about Hire Purchase agreements .... so it's not a good idea to be advising people to do things (e.g. sell the car ) that will attract Fraud / Criminal proceedings being taken against them!!


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## Ditsy (10 Sep 2010)

Thought this my cheer up original poster or at least make her realise that all financial institutions appear unaware that we are in a recession.  You're not alone in dealing with hypocrisy.
Just had the strangest of calls with Money Lending institution.  Am in arrears and have tried to come to a new repayment schedule with them, they did not respond to my letter so I made payments any way.  They have now told me that as I am in arrears they are no longer in a position to come to a new schedule of repayments, I asked them how much the arrears were and if I clear them will they discuss it with me then - wait for it...they said "NO".  I clarified with them "I am offering to clear arrears and reschedule repayments, but you can't do that"  They replied "yes, it doesn't matter if you clear arrears we still won't enter into any new agreement with you".  I told them take me to court, I will gladly take pleasure in watching a Judge laugh them out of court.  I pointed out that in this current economic climate were a person has confirmed financially difficulties and has tried to come to an arrangement which they are refusing on the basis of the account being in arrears and the person wants to clear arrears and they won't accommodate them, I advised them that they really need to re-think their policy!!!  Am I being unreasonable?


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## rossiewoman (10 Sep 2010)

thanks everyone for all of the advice. i realise that many of you went to a lot of trouble to post and the information in them is great

i'm going to put this issue on hold for a while. i'm due my baby in few weeks and feeling rotten and to be honest i haven't the energy to type out all of the information that bazzer asked for.

i think the stress of it all has taken its toll on me. i have until next february anyway until i need to talk to the abnk again. until then i will make the payments every month

thanks again. i do appreciate all posts


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## WindUp (10 Sep 2010)

RossieWoman -- I would give them the car back under the half rule-- buy something like this with the 400 payment you were going to make this month [broken link removed]

Headache will be gone


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## rossiewoman (10 Sep 2010)

thanks for that windup

i would need a better car than that i think for two reasons...this is third baby and would not fit three car seats in that car plus i drive 75 miles to and from work a day and i dont think that car would be able for that


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## Pope John 11 (10 Sep 2010)

How about this one. Get 500-750 off to get it down to the €2,000 mark.

[broken link removed]

You would probably get around €10,000 for your own, without knowing anything about it.

Leaving you with a surpless of €8,000


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## Marietta (10 Sep 2010)

rossiewoman said:


> they told me that they would take the car off me as they would have no problem selling it.


 

I doubt that is true maybe if they gave it away for nothing, this is nothing short of bullying, how awful for you to have to go through this torture.


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## WindUp (10 Sep 2010)

rossiewoman said:


> thanks for that windup
> 
> i would need a better car than that i think for two reasons...this is third baby and would not fit three car seats in that car plus i drive 75 miles to and from work a day and i dont think that car would be able for that



Will you be doing that much mileage when you are on maternity leave though? -- Maybe get something a bit bigger with a good NCT--- you wont know yourself in 6 months when not having the 400 a mth hanging over you and might be in a position to upgrade. I have a 03 car worth 3k max well capable of doing that mileage every day for several years into the future

Pope - She cannot sell as it is under HP


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## rossiewoman (21 Sep 2010)

only seen your post now windup

thanks for all your suggestions, but for now i'm going to try and focus on the impending birth of my baby and i'll come back to this again

thanks again


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## rossiewoman (7 Feb 2011)

hi everyone, i'm back again and the stress hasn't gone away. i am still making the 400 euro per month payments. i was told (when i phoned to make the laser payment this month) that i have one more 400 euro payment and then its back to 600 odd euro a month. i tried to reason with the man on the phone but he was having none of it. he stated that they already 'accommodated' me with one year of 300 euro payments and then the current 6 months payments of 400 euro. he said they will take my car when i told him tht there is no way i can make 600 odd euro payments. he said that the car is depreciating in value and that if they allow me for another 6 months to pay 400 euro, they are losing money the whole time!!
i am so stressed at the minute. i need my car, i have no savings so buying a new one is out of the question, and i mentioned before that our credit rating is bad.

the details of the agreement are as follows :
car : honda accord 2.2 diesel
bank : permanent tsb finance
cash price : e41,625 interest charge: e4,625
deposit/net trade in e11,625 documentation fee: e63
balance : e30,000 purchase installment : e38

initial repayment of e63 followed by 24 consecutive monthly payments of e608. initial payment on 1/7/07 and monthly thereafter. additional payment of e20,033 on 1/7/09

statutory notice :
1. the hirer must put an end to this agreement by giving notice in writing to any person who is entitled to collect or receive the hire-rent
2.the hirer must then either-
a) (i)pay any installments which are in arrears when he gives notice, and 
(ii)if, when the hirer has paid those installments, the total amount under the agreement is less than e23,175.50, the hirer must also pay enough to make up that sum, or
b) purchase the goods by paying the difference between the amount already paid under the agreement and the hire purchase price after the latter amount has been reduced in accordance with section 52 or 53 or such lesser amount as may be specified in the agreement

after e15,450.34 has been paid, then, unless the hirer has put an end to the agreement without exercising the option to purchase the goods, the owner of the goods cannot take them back from the hirer without the hirers consent unless the owner has obtained a court order or is taking a motor vehicle back in ccordance with the following :
where the owner has made an application to the court for an order to recover possession of the motor vehicle, he may,if the vehicle has been abandoned or has been left unattended in circumstances likely to result in damage to, or more than normal depreciation in the value of the vehicle, and if the agreement so provides, take back the vehicle and retain possession of it during the ensuing period prior to the making by the court of an order for the purpose of protecting the vehicle from damage or depreciation


the closing balance today is e17, 897.21 cent

typing one handed here! baby in my arms

does the half rule apply to me? any other advice welcome


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## Graftgirl (7 Feb 2011)

Hi Rossiewoman,
Yes it looks like you have an agreement that allows the half-rule etc.
That figure€23175.50 looks like your half figure with them.
you will need to find out what the balance is to accertain where you are in relation to the half rule and if indeed your agreement allows for this but it does look like it does.IMO.
I did similar recently, offloaded a big expensive vehicle with a 3.2 tank that was just not affordable for me anymore plus the vehicle had depreciated to almost half of the half that I still owed on it. So I was very pleased to wipe €25700 out of my name with no bad mark to my credit rating as it is your legal right to return under the half rule.
Hth and try not to worry, remember your health and your baby are more important than all these worries...


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## rossiewoman (7 Feb 2011)

thanks graftgirl
the stress is so hard to take, but i'm one of these people that jsut cant deal with any hassle at all. i have to ring back at 3pm...i'm my balance is much less than that figure...rang back...figurew is e17897.21

did you have nay hassle from them once you handed back the vehicle...surely they dont just forget about it???? i havent a clue about these things


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## Graftgirl (7 Feb 2011)

I was in similar situation to you, wasn't sleeping with financial worries etc. Stopped answering the phone and couldn't even bare to open the post. Realised I had become quite depressed while I tried to deal internally but was not coping one bit... Fast forward to 2yrs later, getting a bit more sleep, returned the car under the half rule have managed to chip away alot of my debt and the sun is starting to shine again(if you take my meaning, not on about the Irish weather)Please don't let this get on top of you, worrying only serves to make everything worse, enjoy your new baby and try as best you can to deal with your debts. 
Remember they can't take what you don't have, if you can't afford it then they have to be reasonable and accept your terms..
Graftgirl


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## Graftgirl (7 Feb 2011)

Sorry did not answer your last question: When I returned the vehicle, there were no questions asked, they did not even look over the vehicle, I had no further costs after I returned the vehicle and my credit rating just shows that the agreement was settled early etc..


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## rossiewoman (7 Feb 2011)

thanks graftgirl

my logical side tells me to try not to stress and to enjoy my maternity leave and that once i go back to work i'll be regretting not enjoying the time i had at home, but it is just so hard. 

at least if i could return it under the half rule i would have n option

i'm seriously considering asking my dad for help. as i said previously, i need my car for work, but i could try to work out something with my dad

glad your stress levels have reduced graft girl!


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## dereko1969 (7 Feb 2011)

You've been told you can hand the car back under the rule of a half so why are you stressing?


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## rossiewoman (7 Feb 2011)

well derek, the reasons i am still stressing are becuase :
1) if i do follow the half rule i will have no car and will have to ask my father to help me out and that is not something i am happy to have to do at this stage of my life and if he isnt in a p[osition to help, i will ahve no car. how will i get to work...which is 75 miles away btw

2)as mentioned in my first post, i am experiencing severe financial diffiuclties and am the main breadwinner here and i feel under so much pressure

does this answer your question?


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## dereko1969 (7 Feb 2011)

well it seems to me your choice is to give back the car that you can't afford to make payments on or keep paying something that you can't afford and which is stressing you out. i don't see that you actually have a choice.

so basically *you have to give back the car*. 

now, your choices are asking your father for some money for a car that will fit 3 kids and will get you to work when you go back to work after your maternity leave or you should be able to find things in your house that you can sell to finance that or borrow the money from your father. you can get a car for 2k that will do the job.


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## rossiewoman (8 Feb 2011)

Does anyone know how i should proceed regarding the half rule? Thanks


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## PaddyBloggit (8 Feb 2011)

Have a read of this key post:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1051387#post1051387


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## WindUp (9 Feb 2011)

Rossiewoman - hand back the car- you cannot afford it - as Derek says--there are plenty of decent cars out there for 2k


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## rossiewoman (9 Feb 2011)

paddyb...thanks so much for that link it is very helpful indeed. i'm new to this site, so still trying to find my way around

wind up, thanks for your reply. you're right, i can't afford it. just need to get something else set up

wish me luck
thanks


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## Pope John 11 (9 Feb 2011)

Pope John 11 said:


> How about this one. Get 500-750 off to get it down to the €2,000 mark.
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> ...



Rossie, as per my previous thread, go for it fi tis still there, there are plenty alternatives anyway


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## Derry (9 Feb 2011)

Ihave been watching this topic intently as my son is in the same position.  He is thinking of surrendering his car back to the finance co. under the half rule too.

I wish you the very best of luck and I hope things work out well for you. PaddyB is right you will find a car for 2 or 3 thousand euro that will do the job nicely.  Like you I used to drive 78 miles to work daily. But that was a long time ago! Life is too short to be worrying like that so enjoy your new baby and your other 2 lovely children .

Let us know how things work out.


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## iscritto (9 Feb 2011)

If you have paid back 1/3 of the loan then the car cannot be taken back by the bank without going to court - what judge would allow a bank take back the car when you are paying what you can. 

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...l_finance/loans_and_credit/hire_purchase.html


Can the owner (finance house) repossess the goods?

The finance house can only repossess the goods under certain circumstances. If the consumer has not yet paid off one-third of the total hire purchase cost, the owner can repossess the goods at any time without taking legal action against the consumer.


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## rossiewoman (10 Feb 2011)

Thanks so much everyone for all your advice. Derry i wish your son well too. Thats an interesting link from citizens information. I am definitely going to give car back under the half rule.i was just calculating up the amount i have paid on the car since 2007, 24 months at e608. 12 months at e300 and 6 months (almost) at e400.its adds up to over e20,000, meaning i owe less than e10,000, but yet the settlement figure is nearly e18,000...is that correct or have i my figures done wrong?


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## iscritto (10 Feb 2011)

I have added up your figures and I am coming up short also, so it could be one of two things. They rescheduled the balloon payment for 12 months - "allowed" you pay the 300e for 12 months. This however would cost you more in interest and maybe charges. They should have told you this at the time. As far as I know you need to get this in writing, but not 100% sure. 
The other thing it may be is that they are charging you penalty interest each month since the balloon payment was due - again they should have told you this, but this part will be in the terms and conditions on the loan so they will be covered.


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## rossiewoman (10 Feb 2011)

thanks iscritto,
i understand what you're saying. i'm going to give them a call and go through it with them
thanks


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## iscritto (10 Feb 2011)

Best of luck


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## rossiewoman (11 Feb 2011)

Update.i had a phone call from bank this morning asking about payments from april onwards.i explained i can not pay 600+ a month.i mentioned that i was exploring the half rule process.the lady said it does not apply in my case...that my settlement figure is 17 thousand and something but my balance is 19 thousand and something.can someone here clarify based on figures i submitted on one of my last posts whether i am or not.thanks so much.

edited to add...i told them that any further correspondence would have to be done by letter as i am not going to take any more of their phonecalls. the person said that they conduct all of their business on the phone, but i said i will not nswer their calls, and i am just after posting a letter to them stating the same.

i really am not able for any more of this crap. we are having serious difficulty with mortgage nd basically surviving day to day.would just love to get on a plane...but i guess faraway hills are greener!


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## thebigyin (11 Feb 2011)

rossiewoman, my sympathy goes out to you for what you are going through as we are going through the exact same difficulty.
My wife got terrible personal abuse this morning from Permanent TSB demanding that she increase our monthly payment by 20% which is impossible for us to do.
He closed the phone call by saying he going is going legal with it, we are approaching the half payments mark (3 more months) and I suspect he is trying to head this off by bullying tactics.
My wife was very distressed by his manner over the phone as he raised his voice several times insisting that she makes the adjustment or else.
TSB in particular seem to be extremely aggressive in how they handle these difficulties, as an OAP there is no possibility we can do anything other continue paying what we have been paying.
As a side note I'm confused on the voluntary surrender idea,some seem to say that under no circumstance should we sign this while others say it is essential for it to be signed. Can someone clarify this for me please, rossiewoman don't let these gremlins get to you, they are only junior lackeys trying to flex their under developed muscles. There are better days ahead for you,God Bless you and your new baby.


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## redbhoy (11 Feb 2011)

Lose the fear

http://www.mindwarpsectorfour.com/creditcard.html


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## rossiewoman (11 Feb 2011)

thanks thebigyin....you are very kind and i appreciate your well wishes. i just edited my above post because i didnt have time to fully complete it earlier

i'm sorry that you and your wife are experiencing the same problem. i understand that these people have a job to do but my god they are just so aggressive

i dont know anything about voluntary surrender but if you check the posts above, someone posted a link that explains all of these options.

take care


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## TheShark (11 Feb 2011)

Under no circumstances sign a voluntary surrender , they will simply reposess the car and give it to an auction house to auction off then hit you with the difference between what they got and what you owe plus the reposession and auctioneers fees.
Do not take any more calls from them and inform them in writing that you will deal only in writing with them from now on and continue to pay what you can reasonably afford.
Bear in mind that if you wish to return the car under the half rule then you must have half the HP price paid.
Best of luck hope things work out for you.


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## Cantona7 (11 Feb 2011)

+1
As the shark says do not sign a voluntary surrender.

My friend gave back his car to aib finance last week under the half rule, they didnt even bother looking over the car just asked for the log book and nct cert. The chap from aib was very helpfull. The moral of the story is if you qualify for the half rule then theres absolutely nothing they can legally do to prevent you giving the car back.


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## rossiewoman (11 Feb 2011)

thanks theshark and cantona7...ye are evry helpful

its just they said i'm not entitled to the half rule thing but i think i am based on the figures on my agreement form


do you guys think i qualify....
the details of the agreement are as follows :
car : honda accord 2.2 diesel
bank : permanent tsb finance
cash price : e41,625 interest charge: e4,625
deposit/net trade in e11,625 documentation fee: e63
balance : e30,000 purchase installment : e38

initial repayment of e63 followed by 24 consecutive monthly payments of e608. initial payment on 1/7/07 and monthly thereafter. additional payment of e20,033 on 1/7/09

statutory notice :
1. the hirer must put an end to this agreement by giving notice in writing to any person who is entitled to collect or receive the hire-rent
2.the hirer must then either-
a) (i)pay any installments which are in arrears when he gives notice, and 
(ii)if, when the hirer has paid those installments, the total amount under the agreement is less than e23,175.50, the hirer must also pay enough to make up that sum, or
b) purchase the goods by paying the difference between the amount already paid under the agreement and the hire purchase price after the latter amount has been reduced in accordance with section 52 or 53 or such lesser amount as may be specified in the agreement

after e15,450.34 has been paid, then, unless the hirer has put an end to the agreement without exercising the option to purchase the goods, the owner of the goods cannot take them back from the hirer without the hirers consent unless the owner has obtained a court order or is taking a motor vehicle back in ccordance with the following :
where the owner has made an application to the court for an order to recover possession of the motor vehicle, he may,if the vehicle has been abandoned or has been left unattended in circumstances likely to result in damage to, or more than normal depreciation in the value of the vehicle, and if the agreement so provides, take back the vehicle and retain possession of it during the ensuing period prior to the making by the court of an order for the purpose of protecting the vehicle from damage or depreciation


the settlement figure is e17, 897.21 cent
but the balance is 19,090.64

thanks


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## thebigyin (11 Feb 2011)

TheShark said:


> Under no circumstances sign a voluntary surrender , they will simply reposess the car and give it to an auction house to auction off then hit you with the difference between what they got and what you owe plus the reposession and auctioneers fees.
> Do not take any more calls from them and inform them in writing that you will deal only in writing with them from now on and continue to pay what you can reasonably afford.
> Bear in mind that if you wish to return the car under the half rule then you must have half the HP price paid.
> Best of luck hope things work out for you.



Appreciate the advice very much, our car is in really good condition apart from minor wear & tear, considering we have had it on the road for 3 years what would be their expectations of the car condition on return of same.


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## iscritto (11 Feb 2011)

Rossiewoman  as far as I can see - figures are - 
Car price 41,625 +  interest 4,625 = 46,250
46,250 less deposit of 11,625 = 34,625 + 63 doc fee and 38 installment fee = 34,726
You have paid back 20,592  so you have half paid back.

The fact that the balance is still over 19k suggests that there was/is a charge for not paying back the balloon payment. Not sure how this works when it comes to the half rule. I will look into it and see what I can find. 

Might be an idea to call the financial ombudsman's office a call. They should be able to help on the half rule and the fact that the bank wont stop calling you. You may have to make a formal complaint to the bank 1st but you can do this in writing rather than on the phone. 

Thebigyin - normal wear and tear would be acceptable.


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## iscritto (11 Feb 2011)

Hey have a look at this http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=150805 this person also had an issue with PTSB. Might be an idea for you to call the lady in PTSB.


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## rossiewoman (12 Feb 2011)

thanks for that iscritto!


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## rossiewoman (23 Feb 2011)

update

i sent the letter that i mentioned previously and also an email.
the jist of both stating that i will not take any more phonecalls, that i am struggliong to make the 400 euro paymnt and cannot make any more

i also asked them to outline why i am not eligible for half rule

i explained that this whole things has me so stressed and that businesses should not be allowed to make someone feel this stressed. i explained that i would get a solicitor involved if they keep badgering me like this...so this morning, a letter came from them asking me to sign an authorisation/consent to speak to a 3rd party. in presume this is the solicitor??

they never acknowledged my letter/email or anything i mentioned in tem

does this make any sense to anyone?


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## DazCush (25 Feb 2011)

I'm in a similar situation to Rossie, I'm very confused as to exactly where I stand with regards to my 1/2 Amount, and I'm with the same lender as she is, they can be prickly to deal with to say the least. So I'm holding off on contacting them until I absolutely have to.

Would anybody be able to shed any light on this for me?

I Entered into a HP Agreement with PTSB in January 08.
Repayments of €250/month for 12 months, followed by €32,570 balloon payment.
Hire Purchase Price, as per contract, was €35,695.00.
Half Rule Price in contract is noted as €17,847.50.

I was unable to make the balloon payment, and then paid €350/month for 4 months, this was agreed with them.
Payments then increased to €661.65/month in June 09, and I have been making those payments ever since.

I recently contacted them and they confirmed that my finance is still a Hire Purchase, and they sent me out a copy of the original agreement, along with a full account statement.

The opening balance on the statement (from Jan 08) is €44,079.
The outstanding balance on the statement (as per Jan 11) is €27,157.58.

So I have so far paid €16,921.42.

My question(s);

Does the original Half Rule Price still apply to me? As in, am I only €926.08 away from meeting the Half Valuation, at which point I could hand back the keys?

Or

Do I now have to have paid half of the €44,079 amount (€22,039.50)?

Or

Do I in fact still have to reduce my outstanding balance from €27,157.58 to the Half Rule Price?


The reason I ask is that the section in the agreement that deals with this is worded quite badly;

"1. The Hirer may put an end to this Agreement by giving notice of termination in writing....
"2. The Hirer must then...
i) Pay any instalments which are in arrears at the time when he gives notice, and
ii) if, when the Hirer has paid those instalments [any arrears], the total amount under the Agreement is less than €17847.50, the Hirer must also pay enough to make up that sum"


Any help greatly appreciated

Daz


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## rossiewoman (1 Mar 2011)

dazcush, i'm sorry to hear you are having difficulty too. i don't have any answers for you

rossiewoman


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