# 2008 PTSB Tracker Mortgage



## PFS7979 (28 Jan 2017)

Hi all,

I would appreciate an opinion on following scenario.

Mortgage taken out in 2008. mort type: Disc Tracker Further Adv Homeloan.

Tracker rate applied for 12 months and in Nov 2009 a letter issued with various rate options, after which the standard variable rate was applied. I do not have a copy of the rate options provided but the recollection is that a very high margin quoted on the tracker option, leading to variable rate being selected.

two queries:  1) as a rule of thumb, had PTSB stopped offering tracker option on rate review option letters in late 2009 or had they been quoting very high and onerous margins on the tracker option to push borrowers towards the SVR?

2) Is there a consensus out there that PTSB have correctly identifed all effected accounts on their tracker review?

thanks folks.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jan 2017)

I think you are looking for advice on something, without so many ifs and buts, that it's a bit meaningless.

Get your loan offer. 
Get the letter you were sent when the fixed rate period was over. 

It is likely that your offer said that you would be offered a tracker at the then prevailing rate.
It is likely that you were offered this prevailing rate.
It seems that you either chose another rate or alternatively, you made no choice so were put on it by default. 

The main issue for ptsb has been that people who broke fixed rates early, were not offered trackers which they should have been. 

It doesn't appear that you were in that group.

So get the paperwork and decide then if you have any grounds for complaint. 

Brendan


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## PFS7979 (29 Jan 2017)

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for your response. I appreciate advice is difficult in absence of further information on the circumstances.

Please note there was no fixed rate entered into at all. A discounted tracker rate was applied for first 12 months. Under the Special terms and conditions of the Letter of Approval, it stated after the discount period, the prevailing ptsb Tracker rate would apply. within these special terms and conditions, no reference was made to a standard variable rate or any other rate being offered on expiry of the discounted tracker period.

12 months later a range of fixed rates were offered together with a low SVR (3.65%) and a 3.25% over ecb rate LTV Tracker. (4.25%). the letter referred to potential that tracker rate may not be available after fixed rate period. No warnings over selection of the SVR. 

I have two concerns: 
1) why were these range of rates offered after 12 months when the original t&c's stated that prevailing tracker rate would apply after discount period.
2) why was such a low SVR quoted in late 2009 when prevailing tracker was much higher?

taken together, was this a fair and correct treatment of a customer when we know at that time Banks were actively trying to withdraw trackers.
Is there cause for complaint to PTSB?


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jan 2017)

Thanks for the additional data and correction.

If it said that the prevailing tracker rate would automatically apply, then you should have been put on the prevailing tracker rate which, at the time, was ECB +3.25%

So you should get that rate. 



PFS7979 said:


> 12 months later a range of fixed rates were offered together with a low SVR (3.65%) and a 3.25% over ecb rate LTV Tracker. (4.25%).



You were offered a tracker. A tracker has a price promise, or more correctly a margin promise, so it should be more expensive. 

It could be argued that ptsb were deliberately tempting people off trackers by offering SVRs which were too cheap. 

But the Central Bank doesn't have a problem with that. Very recently Richie Boucher of Bank of Ireland said he was keeping SVRs deliberately high so that people would be encouraged to fix.  And not a peep out of the Central Bank. 

Brendan


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## PFS7979 (29 Jan 2017)

thank you Brendan,

just final point, Is it clear that PTSB have correctly highlighted all effected accounts and contacted the customer?

If so, I have no case to seek clarification on.

I believe there is a case here to write to PTSB and ask why these alternative rates were offered when original contract referred to only the prevailing tracker rate to apply.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jan 2017)

I don't know whether ptsb has identified all accounts or not. I tried to find that out recently and was unable to do so.

Let's say the contract says  "You will default onto the prevailing tracker rate when the 1st year is up" 

And at the end of the first year, they write to you saying "Here are some products which we have available. If you don't make a choice, we will default you onto the tracker rate". That seems fair enough to me. 

But it's maybe worth making a complaint to the Ombudsman about. He may take a different view.

Brendan


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## Rory_W (29 Jan 2017)

Per correspondence from PTSB, in case of any use 

"the bank ceased to offer tracker mortgages to new customers on 14 July 2008 and from 31 Aug 2009 to existing customers upon expiry of a fixed rate and discounted rate periods"


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## guido (19 Oct 2017)

Hi - I'm looking for some advice on the same subject as I have been with P/TSB with my current mortgage since 2006.  On the expiration of Year 1 (June 2007), I was offered the Tracker (4.55%) at the time, but I went with a 2 year fixed @ 5.15%.  From memory (yet to track down the docs), I approached P/TSB to exit the fixed rate early, after seeing on this site that some people ended their Fixed Rates early with no penalty (after a year and a half of the 2 year fixed term).  I was then transferred onto a Variable rate.  I was never offered a Tracker - I estimate that this was around Feb 2009 - Since then in 2011 I took a moratorium because the payments were getting too much (at the time) and then last year P/TSB reduced my variable rate to 4.2% following their revision of Variable rates.  What I am asking after all that is - Should I have been offered a tracker at any stage from P/TSB - Was the non penalty removal from the fixed rate in Feb 2009 justification for them to not offer / remove access to the tracker?  thanks for reading and I appreciate any comments.....many thanks


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## Stitcher (21 Oct 2017)

Guido, were you on a discount tracker originally? What was in your mortgage contract ?


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## Wardy7 (21 Oct 2017)

It's all in the contract. You have to find that. If you can't, send in a data request to PTSB. It'll cost you €6.35. Money well spent. You'll know when you see the contract!


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## guido (21 Oct 2017)

Thanks for your help Wardy7 and Stitcher...I have found the agreement for housing loan and I was on a 3.90% variable for year 1 originally and then took the 2 year fixed as outlined above breaking out of this on Feb 2009 to a variable of 4.55%, with no penalty. To request the contract, can I do that on line? Is there a specific line re tracker that I would need to find there? The only time I have ever seen the tracker offered was initially after year 1 when I chose the 2 year fixed. Many thanks again


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## PFS7979 (24 Oct 2017)

Guido,

Check the relevant special condition relating to interest rate on your Letter of Approval. Did it state that after the initial discount period "the then prevailing PTSB tracker rate will apply"?

If so, then check the letter you received c 11 months from drawdown that documented various rate options. Did that letter state "your current rate option is due to expire".

If so, this "options letter" deliberately misled you as no rate option had expired and it was a deliberate attempt to remove you from the tracker..


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## guido (24 Oct 2017)

Thanks for that.  I think that I need to contact them for the letter of approval & contract. The letter that I received one year later says, I am writing to remind you that the current rate option on your mortgage will end on 29 June 2007 - I think contacting them is the next move - thanks again


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## PFS7979 (24 Oct 2017)

Yes... i suspect that based on the relevant special condition, there was never any "current rate option expiring"


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## guido (29 Oct 2017)

Thanks PFS7979, I've requested the docs   since - they said 6 days, so yet to receive them.  Do you know if all of the affected customers (in PTSB) have been contacted at this stage? In saying that I will check my own docs when I receive them and query if necessary - thanks once more for the guidance....


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