# Advice please re idea for new product



## folly (12 Jan 2010)

Hello
Has anyone out there brought their idea for a product from concept to manufacture or licensing.  I have an idea for a product (who doesn't?) and am unsure what steps to take next, and would welcome advice.
Many thanks
folly


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## MANTO (12 Jan 2010)

If you get in contact with the Dublin City Enterprise Board they can guide you in the direction of Patents / Grants / New Business set up.

Or if not in Dublin try your local Enterprise Board.

http://www.dceb.ie/


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## folly (12 Jan 2010)

Thanks Manto for taking the time to reply and for the advice.


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## woodbine (12 Jan 2010)

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=123903&highlight=patent

that's an interesting and informative thread.

and another one here:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=126511&highlight=patent

best of luck with it.


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## folly (13 Jan 2010)

Many thanks Woodbine, very useful.
Thanks for good wishes too!

It sounds like a very elaborate process. 

I am looking to protect the product but am not interested per se in organising manufacture etc (unless this would be the expert advice).  The reasons being there are multinationals in this highly competitive area, and my idea would be much simpler, and cheaper, for them to copy than it would be for me to produce.  I think what I want to do is protect the product, and hopefully sell to one of these multinationals.  I have done a very rudimentary search of USPTO and nothing similar patented.  Also, fairly sure this product does not exist yet (in the format) and am confident there would be universal interest.  I could produce good computer images of what I have in question and it would be very clear what the benefits would be.   I have read only 5% of patents make the inventor any cash, and whilst I am prepared to put some money into this would need to have some security about a return.  Is patenting the only route (guessing 'yes')?


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## Purple (13 Jan 2010)

Patent the product (or register it so that it is patent pending internationally) and then licence it to a multinational for production. Don't be greedy; they are fronting all the cash and taking all the risk. That way they will defend the patent, something that you will not be able to do.

For information on patents  this website gives a good overview but I have used these guys and found them slow and expensive.


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## folly (13 Jan 2010)

Thank you Purple.

Re greedy...what would be appropriate cut..is there a general rule? There would be little risk involved, in my novice opinion.

If I register for patent how long would the product be protected? Can someone alter the product and claim it is not infringing? It would be easy enough to do this once the product was seen.


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## Purple (13 Jan 2010)

Whatever you do you will need to spend a few thousand euro. That should give you a year or so to find your miltinational. Part of your agreement can be that they cover patent filing and protection costs. That's standard enough as they have a commercial interest in it. Also remember that patent royalties are tax free, just remember to file the patent in your name, not a company name.

Your question on the correct % is hard to answer but it will be very small (a few %) but so what since you don't have to do any work for it.


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## folly (13 Jan 2010)

Thanks again Purple.  A few % would be a lot.


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## sinbadsailor (22 Jan 2010)

Remember if you are on to something groundbreaking you need to be very secretive about it all. The law aroudn patents is very complicated and if not approached properly and/or rushed you could find yourself in the position of being beaten to market just because a bigger company had better contacts and deeper pockets.

Until you have it all nailed down, no-one is your friend and should be treated as such


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## fmc (25 Jan 2010)

have to say I completely disagree with some of the above. Folly hope the idea is groundbreaking but just because it is doesn't mean it will sell. The patent owner for sliced bread never made money on it and until the patent ran out and Wonder took it over they marketed it correctly and made millions. Imho share your idea with any one who will listen and pick holes in it work it through test it etc.

To all nay sayers how many people do you know have been ripped off by a company that stole your idea? Ideas are easy, selling products in the market is hard.


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## Purple (25 Jan 2010)

fmc said:


> have to say I completely disagree with some of the above. Folly hope the idea is groundbreaking but just because it is doesn't mean it will sell. The patent owner for sliced bread never made money on it and until the patent ran out and Wonder took it over they marketed it correctly and made millions. Imho share your idea with any one who will listen and pick holes in it work it through test it etc.
> 
> To all nay sayers how many people do you know have been ripped off by a company that stole your idea? Ideas are easy, selling products in the market is hard.



If he shares his idea with people who are better positioned to market it then how will he ever make money out of it? Remember that if he only shares it with one company but there is no non-disclosure agreement in place, then it is in the public domaine.


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## DaithiC (4 Feb 2010)

If this is, in your opinion, a patentable technology/product you probably are beyond the Enterprise Boards capability and should consider approaching Enterprise Ireland.  EI also have some support for patent prosecution, i.e., they will stump up some cash to assist in the costs of the application etc.  I don't know what sector you are in so it will be difficult to advise levels of royalty/license fees etc. but be aware of you go to MNCs you may be waiting a long time to get to the guys who have the problem your invention potentially solves as their priority.

You could do a provisional patent application - not too expensive and sets the priority date and you don't have to write a full specification.  This will give you a year to assess if there is interest.  If there is not you can drop it at the end of the year, if there is you can continue to full filing.


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## PeterBrennan (29 Jul 2010)

When you say patent royalties are tax free does this also mean any money you make as a result of executing a business idea on the patent is tax free (ie if you patent a piece of software and then sell the software). I think I heard this somewhere before.


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## Purple (29 Jul 2010)

PeterBrennan said:


> When you say patent royalties are tax free does this also mean any money you make as a result of executing a business idea on the patent is tax free (ie if you patent a piece of software and then sell the software). I think I heard this somewhere before.



No, the company that sells the software will pay you a royalty for each unit sold. This is the case even if you own the business. Since the royalty is an expense it is not taxable at that end either. Obviously the business can't pay you more than a reasonable market rate or Revenue will deem it a vehicle for tax evasion. As far as I know all such royalty agreements have to be approved by Revenue. I think it’s a case of making a return and then seeing if they accept it, which is risky. Which leads on to; 
Before putting anything in place I'd seek professional advice; talk to an accountant. You need to know enough about the subject before you meet them to know what questions to ask and size up if they know what they are talking about.


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## Paddy199 (30 Jul 2010)

Patents attract some of the most tax adventageous benefits in Ireland.

A "qualifying patent" is defined as a patent in relation to which the research, planning, processing, experimenting, testing, devising, designing, developing or similar activity leading to the invention, the subject of the patent, was carried out in Ireland. A ‘person’ can be an individual or a company. 

Qualifying patent income is disregarded for corporation tax purposes and exempt for income tax purposes.

There are criteria and limits but nothing that should hinder you availing of this exemption.

Speak to someone that has experience in this area.

R&D tax credits could also be available which can be used to shelter Employers PRSI. Get a good accountant with the necessary expertise in these areas. If you go through Enterprise Ireland, they might fund a mentor for you i.e. your mentor could be your accountant!


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