# Pre planning meetings.



## Carlowjohn (12 Jul 2011)

Are planners obliged to keep records of what has been said and agreed at pre planning meetings?

The reason why I ask is that I have come across a situation where two meetings took place for a house I now object too. One for the original permission and one for the subsequent retention permission. The council involved now claim that they made no minutes. I feel that this may have effected the overall outcome. Is this standard practice?


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## Emiso (12 Jul 2011)

I recently had a pre planning  meeting with Meath Co Co. The planning officer had a form that he filled out with the details of the meeting and we both had to sign it. He gave me a copy and retained a copy.
I can't speak for other areas.


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## Carlowjohn (13 Jul 2011)

That's interesting, my council ( who will remain nameless ) seem to also keep records but not for this development for some strange reason! Thanks for the info. The planner who conducted the meetings  is also the senior planner. Maybe it's a job for the ombudsman?


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## onq (13 Jul 2011)

Nothing is agreed at a pre-planning meeting.
Every planning officer worth his or her salt makes this abundantly clear.
In my experience will never see a set of PPM minutes from a local authority.
You may or course write to them confirming what was said and they may respond.

The Planner's Report is the only formal account of the planning officer's deliberations.
Normally the Planning file and the application form will record whether a PPM occurred.
PPM's are intended to facilitate discussions in broad terms prior to lodging the application.
The aim is to address issues at the early stages of the process to avoid unnecessary appeals.

ONQ.  

[broken link removed]  

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon  as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be  taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in  Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at  hand.


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## Carlowjohn (13 Jul 2011)

Thanks for that, I will see what ABP thinks.


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## onq (13 Jul 2011)

http://www.pleanala.ie

Your one-stop shop for appeal advice.

ONQ.  

[broken link removed]  

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon   as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be   taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in   Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at   hand.


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## Emiso (14 Jul 2011)

Onq,
The form that I have is a specific printed one for a pre planning meeting. The planner informed the architect and I that this was a new thing in the interests of transparency and prevention of misunderstandings by the applicant.
Naturally we were aware that nothing was agreed at a pre planning meeting and he stated this at the start.


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## onq (14 Jul 2011)

Hi Emiso,

Yes I think there is a paper trail laid down now to show that a PP Meeting took place.
As you say, nothing gets agreed in such meetings - they are intended to inform the potential applicant of issues so that they are dealt with in the application proper.
In past years, applications would land on the Local Authority's desk with glaring inconsistencies in them such that they would have needed a material contravention to sort them out.

In particular, pre-planning meetings are intended to inform layperson and professional alike of policies in the Development Plan that the application should comply with.
I've found them particularly useful where a line or two in say the environment section about "preserving existing hedgerows" could so affect a design as to render it unprofitable for the developer to proceed.

ONQ.  

[broken link removed]  

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be    taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in    Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at    hand.


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## RKQ (23 Jul 2011)

In Wexford a Pre Planning Meeting page is filled out - its very basic, out lining who attended the meeting, broadly what points were discussed or part of relevant Development Plan. Its signed by the Planner & person at the PPM. 

Wexford County Council now insist the a copy of the PPM is included with the application otherwise the application will be deemed invalid.


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## onq (23 Jul 2011)

Useful to know RKQ.

I see you're back after a long hiatus.

Five weeks in the sunny Bahamas, was it? LOL!

ONQ.


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## RKQ (28 Jul 2011)

onq said:


> Five weeks in the sunny Bahamas, was it? LOL!
> 
> ONQ.


 
I wish!


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