# BER Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan 09



## Butter (19 Nov 2008)

This Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st of Jan 2009.  I will be putting a rental property back on the market in December, but am realistic about my chances of letting it before the New Year.
Will BER inspections only begin January does anyone know?  Also has anyone any idea of expected costs?


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## Bessa (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

I presume it will be January as the law comes in then. I also would think that the cost will be as high as they want to charge. Its time for marching.


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## Mr Tayto (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*



> This Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property


Is it not about time people had a measurable idea of value


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## extopia (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

It's simple enough. From Jan 1 2009, landlords will need to supply a BER certificate to new tenants renting any property. The BER rating lets tenants know the energy performance of the dwelling. It gives potential tenants an idea of what their energy costs will be, and allows them to make meaningful comparisons between different dwellings that they might be considering renting.

Why would anyone (landlords excepted) march in the streets about such an obviously pro-consumer issue? 

Perhaps landlords should think of the BER rating as a way to differentiate themselves from the competition. Energy efficient dwellings might even command a higher rent premium.

And if your apartment has a less than great rating, you have two choices: upgrade it so you can compete, or align the rent with the amount commanded by similarly rated dwellings in your area.


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## tara83 (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

I have already gotten a few flyers in the door offering a discount for getting a BER done before the New Year.  Realistically you will have to get one so now might be a good time.  It would also mean you may be able to rectify things to improve the rating before you come to let the property


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## Caili (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

So would I be correct in saying that if I have tenants at the moment and have done for the past 7 months, I dont need to get it done unless these tenants leave and I get new tenants?


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## colm5 (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

BER certs are not expensive. You can get them done now for 250euro as so many people have done the course and are registered weekend/ part time assessors.


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## extopia (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*



Caili said:


> So would I be correct in saying that if I have tenants at the moment and have done for the past 7 months, I dont need to get it done unless these tenants leave and I get new tenants?



Correct. The cert is needed when the building is _offered_ for sale or letting. See here.


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## Butter (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*



colm5 said:


> BER certs are not expensive. You can get them done now for 250euro as so many people have done the course and are registered weekend/ part time assessors.


 
If anyone knows who is doing them at €250 please let me know.  I have seen them advertised for €400 and more which is extortionate.  By the way does anyone know who is going to police this?  Or will it be a case of registered landlords getting stung again?


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## bogota400 (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*



tara83 said:


> I have already gotten a few flyers in the door offering a discount for getting a BER done before the New Year. Realistically you will have to get one so now might be a good time. It would also mean you may be able to rectify things to improve the rating before you come to let the property


What price were they offering tara?  Would you mind pm'ing me their number?


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## aircobra19 (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

Ditto here with the 250 quote.


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## PADDYBOY99 (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

Where are you based? There are a few people in Cork doing it for this price. Depending on the size of the dwelling.


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## S.L.F (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*

How is the BER assessed in a house?


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## GreenFlag (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

have been making enquires on this as well as I need one new year. the cost being quoted by some people is like a base line cost for a new one bed apartment for example - a hook to get you to call - thats what I can see anyway. standard 3/ 4 bed are more. existing houses/apartments are more exoensive than new. as far as i can figure, an existing house requires a site visit, a survey, and then do the program / report /register secrt so its not a million miles off the cost of having a normal condition survey done if you buying a prop.

alos i think lots of people hav done the cousres but not all have registered with SEi, which is needed to get an official cert.

will be interested to see how it pans out


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## PADDYBOY99 (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



GreenFlag said:


> have been making enquires on this as well as I need one new year. the cost being quoted by some people is like a base line cost for a new one bed apartment for example - a hook to get you to call - thats what I can see anyway. standard 3/ 4 bed are more. existing houses/apartments are more exoensive than new. as far as i can figure, an existing house requires a site visit, a survey, and then do the program / report /register secrt so its not a million miles off the cost of having a normal condition survey done if you buying a prop.
> 
> alos i think lots of people hav done the cousres but not all have registered with SEi, which is needed to get an official cert.
> 
> will be interested to see how it pans out


 

This is probably correct.
However the increases aren't great as the property size encreases.
App start at 250
3 BED SEMI 275
4 BED SEMI 300.
ONE offs would have to be priced on a case by case basis as the size and material would differ greatly.

There are guys quoting rediculious prices but given the current climate you would be foolish to pay this kind of money.I have been quoted 400 Euro plus vat for a 3 bed semi. Good luck.


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## Lobby (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

Having done the BER course I can say that one off houses can involve quote a lot of time to survey. Every external wall must be measured, and the area of every window/door also calculated. Also, every part of the roof area must be measured (you could have three different types of roof  in a dormer house). 

In the absence of architects drawings (which is likely to be the case in existing homes) then all the above must be physically measured on site. 

I'd expect it to take maybe half a day to do an existing one off dwelling BER report when travel time is included.


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## MrMan (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: BER Certification*



Marg said:


> If anyone knows who is doing them at €250 please let me know.  I have seen them advertised for €400 and more which is extortionate.  By the way does anyone know who is going to police this?  Or will it be a case of registered landlords getting stung again?



It doesn't really seem extortionate when you see the work involved and it is consumer friendly.


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## PADDYBOY99 (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

My Advice to everyone is price around. It is an open an competive market so prices may vary.


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## aircobra19 (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Lobby said:


> Having done the BER course I can say that one off houses can involve quote a lot of time to survey. Every external wall must be measured, and the area of every window/door also calculated. Also, every part of the roof area must be measured (you could have three different types of roof in a dormer house). ....


 
How long does the course take?


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## Meathman99 (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

To become a registered BER assessor you must first possess a minimum of a national certificate in construction related subject (2 years).  Then a 1 week course for new build houses.  Then register with SEI


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## minion (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

How about anyone who gets a good price post the link and the price they got and property type in here.  Then at least there would be a clear indication of costs involved.  I have to get some too and have no idea where to start.

Also for apartment blocks im sure there is much less work involved for an assessor on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th ......... units of the same type.  ie once he has one done he just has to more or less repeat it for all of the rest of the apartments on the building.


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## PADDYBOY99 (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



minion said:


> How about anyone who gets a good price post the link and the price they got and property type in here. Then at least there would be a clear indication of costs involved. I have to get some too and have no idea where to start.
> 
> Also for apartment blocks im sure there is much less work involved for an assessor on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th ......... units of the same type. ie once he has one done he just has to more or less repeat it for all of the rest of the apartments on the building.


 
That would be correct. You should get a deal for Multiple similair properties .


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## Lak (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

I have recently been informed that Engineers, Architects and Auctioneers will be able to assess dwellings in which they have a vested interest, when I undertook the new build BER course early in the year I was informed by the training company that under no circumstances would any person that may have a conflict of interest in regards to issueing a cert for any property be allowed to assess said property. 
This measure it appears has been fully relaxed, which I find very annoying, as it seems apparent SEI have blatantly induced a large amount of individuals to partake in expensive courses in the belief that there will be many opportunities to make a decent living. This clearly has been curtailed to a large extent if Engineers are assessing their own dwellings and more so Auctioneers for all propertys on their books


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## Pope John 11 (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

I was also thinking about doing this course. Has anyone have any idea of the number of persons qualifying for this course, over the last year.


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## MrMan (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



legs-akimbo said:


> I have recently been informed that Engineers, Architects and Auctioneers will be able to assess dwellings in which they have a vested interest, when I undertook the new build BER course early in the year I was informed by the training company that under no circumstances would any person that may have a conflict of interest in regards to issueing a cert for any property be allowed to assess said property.
> This measure it appears has been fully relaxed, which I find very annoying, as it seems apparent SEI have blatantly induced a large amount of individuals to partake in expensive courses in the belief that there will be many opportunities to make a decent living. This clearly has been curtailed to a large extent if Engineers are assessing their own dwellings and more so Auctioneers for all propertys on their books




It hasn't been relaxed and it should be enforced, the last thing an auctioneer would want is to do his own properties because he would be expected to do it for cut price or as part of the sales package.


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## mosstown (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

these certs have been law since 1 October in the UK.  I paid a £35 for each property regardless of size.  this was a discounted rate based on size of portfolio but you can get generally get them done for £55 so i think 250 euros is taking the mickey, but i guess that's Ireland for you.
these certs are the greatest load of rubbish ever.  they are valid for 10 years, there is no legal requirement to improve the property and my 9 year old daughter could have produced the report.
the assessment involved measuring the property, checking if you had low energy bulbs, what type of heating, type of water heating, double glazed or not, roof insulation, year of build, type of build (block or timberframe), noting how many external walls and thats basically it in a nutshell. very simple.
the guy spent 20 minutes in each property, took the information away, input it on his laptop which he said takes him about 10 minutes and then emailed them to me.  £35 for 30 minutes work, pretty good.


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## Lak (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

You would need to do a hell of alot of assessments at £35 a pop to recoup the five grand or more it costs an individual to train and register with SEI, before the indemnity and public liabillity insurances, lap top, vehicle etc. Before of course someone can attempt to make a living....but I guess thats Ireland for you.


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## S.L.F (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



mosstown said:


> these certs have been law since 1 October in the UK.  I paid a £35 for each property regardless of size.  this was a discounted rate based on size of portfolio but you can get generally get them done for £55 so i think 250 euros is taking the mickey, but i guess that's Ireland for you.
> these certs are the greatest load of rubbish ever.  they are valid for 10 years, there is no legal requirement to improve the property and my 9 year old daughter could have produced the report.
> the assessment involved measuring the property, checking if you had low energy bulbs, what type of heating, type of water heating, double glazed or not, roof insulation, year of build, type of build (block or timberframe), noting how many external walls and thats basically it in a nutshell. very simple.
> the guy spent 20 minutes in each property, took the information away, input it on his laptop which he said takes him about 10 minutes and then emailed them to me.  £35 for 30 minutes work, pretty good.



I agree I think €250 for an hours work is scandalous, if could could get someone to do it for this rate, from the prices I've come across it's more like €400.



legs-akimbo said:


> You would need to do a hell of alot of assessments at £35 a pop to recoup the five grand or more it costs an individual to train and register with SEI, before the indemnity and public liabillity insurances, lap top, vehicle etc. Before of course someone can attempt to make a living....but I guess thats Ireland for you.



As you say this is Ireland so the prices are not what they should be and are quoted to be between €250 and €400 for a single dwelling.

So €5000/400 is 12.5 basically 1.5 days work

or to be fair if it was cheaper then €5000/€250 works out at 20 that's 2.5 days work.

Even factoring in things like insurance, training costs, registering with SEI motor expenses or lap tops which most people have anyway

Not bad money if you can get it.


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## mosstown (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

this guy who carries out the energy certs in London often does 12 reports in a day.  he also works saturdays and most sunday mornings and would have 3-5 done on a sunday morning and home for lunch.  he told me he can easily earn £2,500 a week without breaking into a sweat !  he even turns down properties that are bit awkward to get to or too far from where he lives.
the letting agents are also using this as a money making opportunity, i.e. one agent is charging £140 + VAT, sneaky gets !


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## S.L.F (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



mosstown said:


> this guy who carries out the energy certs in London often does 12 reports in a day.  he also works saturdays and most sunday mornings and would have 3-5 done on a sunday morning and home for lunch.  he told me he can easily earn £2,500 a week without breaking into a sweat !  he even turns down properties that are bit awkward to get to or too far from where he lives.
> the letting agents are also using this as a money making opportunity, i.e. one agent is charging £140 + VAT, sneaky gets !



Now turn this into Irish prices.

12 per day @ €250 is €3000 per day equates to €15000 per week or €18000 if you work Saturdays

12 per day @ €400 is €4800 per day equates to €24000 per week or €28800 if you work Saturdays.

I'm obviously in the wrong business!


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## Bronte (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



mosstown said:


> these certs have been law since 1 October in the UK. I paid a £35 for each property regardless of size. this was a discounted rate based on size of portfolio but you can get generally get them done for £55 so i think 250 euros is taking the mickey, but i guess that's Ireland for you.
> these certs are the greatest load of rubbish ever. they are valid for 10 years, there is no legal requirement to improve the property and my 9 year old daughter could have produced the report.
> the assessment involved measuring the property, checking if you had low energy bulbs, what type of heating, type of water heating, double glazed or not, roof insulation, year of build, type of build (block or timberframe), noting how many external walls and thats basically it in a nutshell. very simple.
> the guy spent 20 minutes in each property, took the information away, input it on his laptop which he said takes him about 10 minutes and then emailed them to me. £35 for 30 minutes work, pretty good.


That's very interesting, I was wondering exaclty what the BER would be,  but if this is all it is I could do it myself without any qualification.  Anyone know what happens if you don't get one when renting out from January?  Is there a fine?  How is it enforced?  It just seems like another cost to landlords.  I can tell my tenant's the exact heating costs based on previous bills for gaz/oil/esb.


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Bronte said:


> That's very interesting, I was wondering exaclty what the BER would be,  but if this is all it is I could do it myself without any qualification.  Anyone know what happens if you don't get one when renting out from January?  Is there a fine?  How is it enforced?  It just seems like another cost to landlords.  I can tell my tenant's the exact heating costs based on previous bills for gaz/oil/esb.




Max fine of €5,000 and/or 3 months in prison afaik. Do people really think that this could be done for the price of a call out to look at a broken washing machine?


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## Bronte (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



MrMan said:


> Max fine of €5,000 and/or 3 months in prison afaik. Do people really think that this could be done for the price of a call out to look at a broken washing machine?


Who's going to check if you have a BER certificate?  Nobody currently checks the state of property, though I do know there is some state body that is supposed to.  The PRTB doesn't check standards as far as I know and they can't even handle the complaints procedure in a timely manner, never mind efficiently.  Let's say I don't get the BER, who will be taking me to court?  Tenants?  Why would they care.  What is the point of all this.  It's just more red tape.


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## joker538 (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



S.L.F said:


> I agree I think €250 for an hours work is scandalous, if could could get someone to do it for this rate, from the prices I've come across it's more like €400.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I am doing this course and am due to finish next week. Would estimate to come and do a survey on an existing property would take 4 hours (1-1.5 hours survey, 1-2 hours on computer inputing date, 1 hours travel)

If you were to charge €250 for the cert. You would have the following costs

Price                                            250.00
Vat @ 21%                                     43.47
Price excl vat                                206.53
less cost of lodging cert with sei        25.00
                                                  181.53

less capital costs contribution say      16.53 
(training €1800, laptop €500, insurance, car, register with sei €1000) 
                                                 150.00

So €150 for 4 hours worked less tax and prsi, say 25%, is €112.50 for half a days work. Assuming that over time you would become more efficient and could complete 4/5 per day its still not the kind of money you have in your calculations above


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Bronte said:


> Who's going to check if you have a BER certificate?  Nobody currently checks the state of property, though I do know there is some state body that is supposed to.  The PRTB doesn't check standards as far as I know and they can't even handle the complaints procedure in a timely manner, never mind efficiently.  Let's say I don't get the BER, who will be taking me to court?  Tenants?  Why would they care.  What is the point of all this.  It's just more red tape.




The tenants might want to know what your rating is so that they can use it for rental negotiations, they may simply want to because it is their right to do so. It may seem like red tape but hopefully it is the start of more sustainable construction and even better for the environment, you hardly are against that are you?


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



> less cost of lodging cert with sei 25.00



You should probably provide a cost plus the charge of cert just the allow for the possibility that the cert price will go up.


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## Bronte (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



MrMan said:


> The tenants might want to know what your rating is so that they can use it for rental negotiations, they may simply want to because it is their right to do so. It may seem like red tape but hopefully it is the start of more sustainable construction and even better for the environment, you hardly are against that are you?


Absolutely agree with better standards of course I do (environment and sustainable is a different debate),   I've got very high spec as far as I'm concerned but in older buildings.  But I've heard the newer builds are getting an automatic certificate and I don't belive a lot of them have been well built, so who was ensuring the standards there and why are they getting an automatic certificate, I think it's a cover up for bad building practice.  Also when one gets an engineer/expert to do a survey why can't it cover this.  MrMan, I'll be getting the certificate if I have to but do I believe the standards will go up, No.


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## MrMan (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Bronte said:


> Absolutely agree with better standards of course I do (environment and sustainable is a different debate),   I've got very high spec as far as I'm concerned but in older buildings.  But I've heard the newer builds are getting an automatic certificate and I don't belive a lot of them have been well built, so who was ensuring the standards there and why are they getting an automatic certificate, I think it's a cover up for bad building practice.  Also when one gets an engineer/expert to do a survey why can't it cover this.  MrMan, I'll be getting the certificate if I have to but do I believe the standards will go up, No.



i guess its putting the onus on the vendor from now on, the purchaser would have had to employ a surveyor and pay him even if he didn't go through with the purchase, so this way its a once off. Tenants would never have employed a surveyor anyway. I understand your fears and they are well founded, hopefully it will turn out to be a positive move and not another paper over the cracks.


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## S.L.F (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



joker538 said:


> I am doing this course and am due to finish next week. Would estimate to come and do a survey on an existing property would take 4 hours (1-1.5 hours survey, 1-2 hours on computer inputing date, 1 hours travel)



Nowhere have I seen anybody saying it will take an hour and a half to survey a property, normally an hour. 1
1-2 hours on a computer. Come on you are not writing a novel. You have a few things to take into consideration type of heating, insulation, vents, walls and windows. What else is there?

Say it costs €400 to survey a property or suppose you can get more surveyed in a day than you think you can or suppose you get faster at your computer than you are now, suppose you do all your calling on set days and do all your PC work on other set days.

Where would these thoughts change your figures?

Since you have not even started to do this as a business my figures make as much sense as yours.

€1800 for a course that gives you a business that people have to use or they get fined or thrown in jail, yeah give me a slice of that cake please!


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## PADDYBOY99 (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

If you belive you could set yourself up for 1800 Euro why don't you go ahead. You will soon find that outlay growing quiet a bit. 



S.L.F said:


> Nowhere have I seen anybody saying it will take an hour and a half to survey a property, normally an hour. 1
> 1-2 hours on a computer. Come on you are not writing a novel. You have a few things to take into consideration type of heating, insulation, vents, walls and windows. What else is there?
> 
> Say it costs €400 to survey a property or suppose you can get more surveyed in a day than you think you can or suppose you get faster at your computer than you are now, suppose you do all your calling on set days and do all your PC work on other set days.
> ...


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## joejoe (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



PADDYBOY99 said:


> If you belive you could set yourself up for 1800 Euro why don't you go ahead. You will soon find that outlay growing quiet a bit.



Paddyboy, how much did it cost you?

Joejoe


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## PADDYBOY99 (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

Assuming you have transport and a premises to work from you would be looking close on 5k to set you up. 
Training 2,350
Lap top 650
Reg 1000 plus VAT
Public liability insurrance.
company Reg.
Promotion, Business cards, fliers etc.


Not to mention all the other requirements like mobile phone etc. 
It wouldn't be long adding up. Also if you had to borrow the money to get you started you would have to service this loan until the company starts to make money. Let S.L.F. see how he gets on seting up for 1800 Euro.


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

I'm getting confused, the qualifications that are required for this is a course that costs 1800 Euro, how long does it take to get qualified, we're not talking about a two day course or something surely for someone with no other qualifications?  Do you not have to be an engineer/surveyor/expert also?


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## MrMan (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

You need a qualification in construction or construction orientated qualification before you can take on the course.


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



MrMan said:


> You need a qualification in construction or construction orientated qualification before you can take on the course.


Phew, and thanks MrMan always good on these things.   Do you know why new properties would be allowed to be exempt?


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## MrMan (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Bronte said:


> Phew, and thanks MrMan always good on these things.   Do you know why new properties would be allowed to be exempt?



New and existing properties have to be certified, its just that existing properties only have to be certified from Jan '09 and new were from Jan '08 (or thereabouts). For new as far as I know, the builder can get it done from the plans on the spec that is supposed to go into the houses rather than actually doing it on the finished product, which is cheaper to do and more open to cheating i.e the spec might be high, but the finish may not be as its meant to be.


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## S.L.F (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



PADDYBOY99 said:


> If you believe you could set yourself up for 1800 Euro why don't you go ahead. You will soon find that outlay growing quiet a bit.



I work for myself so I am all too well aware of how costs can build up.

The costs of my tools and equip would run into the many more thousands than what it would cost for someone to train to be a BER surveyor.

Only recently bought €1500 worth of stuff for the business.



PADDYBOY99 said:


> Assuming you have transport and a premises to work from you would be looking close on 5k to set you up.
> Training 2,350
> Lap top 650
> Reg 1000 plus VAT
> ...



All the things you've mentioned are just the costs of doing business



PADDYBOY99 said:


> Let S.L.F. see how he gets on setting up for 1800 Euro.



LOL

Thanks but no thanks I've worked honestly for many years and plan to do so for many more anyway none of my customers have ever had the threat of jail or a €5000 fine for not using this type of service.


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## joker538 (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



S.L.F said:


> Nowhere have I seen anybody saying it will take an hour and a half to survey a property, normally an hour. 1
> 1-2 hours on a computer. Come on you are not writing a novel. You have a few things to take into consideration type of heating, insulation, vents, walls and windows. What else is there?
> 
> Say it costs €400 to survey a property or suppose you can get more surveyed in a day than you think you can or suppose you get faster at your computer than you are now, suppose you do all your calling on set days and do all your PC work on other set days.
> ...


 
I was estimating times as I am currently only doing the course. However If you read all my post I also said as you become proficient you could do more certs per day. I would also note that from what I have heard the system in place for certification in the UK is far more simplistic than the system used in Ireland.

If you really believe people who do this course are going to be making €18000 - €28800 per week you should do the course yourself..


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## STAC (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

Regarding lenting and renting, a BER cert is required when a new tenant is being registered.
Regarding sale of dwellings, all dwelling offered for sale from 1st Jan 2009 will require a BER cert when offered for sale.
Regarding Builders and new houses, a provisional cert is done off plans this allows the dwelling to be sold before it is build. On completion the dwelling needs to be inspected and a full cert issued as with all other dwellings.
A lot of the talk is about the enforcement of the new BER regs but little of the benefits,
The main purpose of the scheme is to inform prospective tenants or purchasers of dwellings. Giving them an easy to read guide as to how much it will cost to run a property compared to a comparable property in the same area giving them the opportunity to make an informed decision which up until now was not available.

Hopefully the end result should be that when the general public latch on to this it will make the landlords/ Developers pay more attention to the energy efficiencies of their properties (and provide a better service to their clients) as they will be able to sell or rent them easier providing jobs for builders upgrading existing buildings and reducing the cost of running a home for the general public.

I have a company specialising in BER certs and other energy services in the munster area if any one has any queries about the new Building Energy Rating system please feel free to contact us and we will do our best to clarify everything.


www.stac.ie


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## Butter (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



STAC said:


> Regarding lenting and renting, a BER cert is required when a new tenant is being registered.


 
So, can I clarify this please?  When I register my tenancy (and pay my €70) with the PTRB I also have to provide a BER Certificate?  So is the PTRB now regulating the BER Cert as well? Who takes me to court if I don't provide my cert when the tenancy is registered?  What about landlords who are not registered by the PTRB - are they off the hook again? 
New builds have their BER Rating granted automatically based on the specs submitted to whom?  Does anyone check specs against the reality of the build?
Can someone direct me to the legislation involved in all of this please?  I think I'm more confused than I was when I initially posted!


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## Lak (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

Maybe if you live in a large city like Dublin there could be the volume of work to enable an assessor to complete two a day. Out west there is no way I will ever be undertaking 10 assessments a week, bearing in mind just how nany qualified people there are. Some of the posts here are absurd, how any one could envisage a man completeing 12 a day or some such nonsense is ludicrous. Those that are ridiculeing the earning capacity of being a BER assessor and the relevant timescales have never even seen the software and all it entails let alone having the abillity to undertake, comprehend then successfully pass the SEI exams. If it was such a cash cow, those that seem to know in such certain terms how easy it is would be out making three or four grand themselves would they not surely.
In the UK there are dozens upon dozens of estate agents on every city centre corner with thousands upon thousands of propetys.


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## gafferino (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

Folks I have to say what I have been reading in this post has shocked me. I have a BEng and MSc in engineering and have been qualified to complete BER's for new builds since 2007. I can 100% confirm that if anyone claims to survey your house and complete a report (some english guy apparently) in 30 mins then they are not doing their job. As for the man whose 9 year old daughter can produce the report he hasn't got the faintest idea what he is talking about.
On average - taking into account location, type of house and that a professional job is being done - it would be possible to complete 2 a day or maybe 5 in two days.
Before people go off on one ranting about prices go to  and find out what is involved and why it is being done - this is not just a money making venture - it is hoped we will see real results as people become aware of their energy use and carbon footprint.
Also this is EU wide legislation not just Ireland.


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## S.L.F (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



joker538 said:


> I was estimating times as I am currently only doing the course. However If you read all my post I also said as you become proficient you could do more certs per day.



So you don't actually know how many you could get done in a day.

Well let me clue you in.
I called an Irish company today to ask them how long they spend on site and I was told about 1/2 an hour.
So with that information on hand do you think it would be possible to call to 12 houses in a day or not?



joker538 said:


> I would also note that from what I have heard the system in place for certification in the UK is far more simplistic than the system used in Ireland.



Please tell me why the Irish system has to be more complicated?



joker538 said:


> If you really believe people who do this course are going to be making €18000 - €28800 per week you should do the course yourself..



I'm a sash window restorer and many other things besides.

I have no interest in filling forms, pushing paper and stamping certs.

I'll leave that for you to do.

And you're welcome!


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## PADDYBOY99 (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*

I agree if a person recons they are carrying out more then this a day I would question their results, especially when dealing with the second hand market where every house design is different with a multitude of alterations done over the years. 



gafferino said:


> Folks I have to say what I have been reading in this post has shocked me. I have a BEng and MSc in engineering and have been qualified to complete BER's for new builds since 2007. I can 100% confirm that if anyone claims to survey your house and complete a report (some english guy apparently) in 30 mins then they are not doing their job. As for the man whose 9 year old daughter can produce the report he hasn't got the faintest idea what he is talking about.
> On average - taking into account location, type of house and that a professional job is being done - it would be possible to complete 2 a day or maybe 5 in two days.
> Before people go off on one ranting about prices go to  and find out what is involved and why it is being done - this is not just a money making venture - it is hoped we will see real results as people become aware of their energy use and carbon footprint.
> Also this is EU wide legislation not just Ireland.


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## joejoe (26 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



PADDYBOY99 said:


> Assuming you have transport and a premises to work from you would be looking close on 5k to set you up.
> Training 2,350
> Lap top 650
> Reg 1000 plus VAT
> ...



Also P.I. cover (if your wise)

Joejoe


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## joker538 (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



S.L.F said:


> Well let me clue you in.
> I called an Irish company today to ask them how long they spend on site and I was told about 1/2 an hour.
> So with that information on hand do you think it would be possible to call to 12 houses in a day or not?


 
If you refer to the post by Gafferino, he states that to do a professional job "it would be possible to complete 2 a day or maybe 5 in two days."




S.L.F said:


> Please tell me why the Irish system has to be more complicated?


 
I dont know why the Irish system has to be more complicated it is just the way that the software is set out in Ireland over the UK



S.L.F said:


> I'm a sash window restorer and many other things besides.
> 
> I have no interest in filling forms, pushing paper and stamping certs.
> 
> ...


 
And good luck to you. I was only replying to what I felt were inaccuracies in your posts. If you cant be an adult about it perhaps you shouold find another forum to post on.


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## STAC (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



Marg said:


> So, can I clarify this please?  When I register my tenancy (and pay my €70) with the PTRB I also have to provide a BER Certificate?  So is the PTRB now regulating the BER Cert as well? Who takes me to court if I don't provide my cert when the tenancy is registered?  What about landlords who are not registered by the PTRB - are they off the hook again?
> New builds have their BER Rating granted automatically based on the specs submitted to whom?  Does anyone check specs against the reality of the build?
> Can someone direct me to the legislation involved in all of this please?  I think I'm more confused than I was when I initially posted!




The people responible for policing the whole system are Building control dept in each local authorty. They are at present suppose to inspect the condition of rental properties registered with PTRB. This however as you know is not done as frequently as intended, due to (they say) staff constraints. €50 of your €70 fee paid to PTRB is for these inspections. The BER cert however will not need as much less staff (building control) as all certs are on web database and it will only take mins to check.
      I agree landlords not registered with PTRB will be a lot harder to police for BER compliance. 
        New building do not have BER granted automatically. Plans and specs are submitted to BER assessor, from these a provisional cert for 2 years or completion of build (whichever is shorter) at this time the house will be inspected and assessed as with all other existing houses and ten year cert issued. If house is not build to specs orginalily given the cert will be downgraded and the buyer can pull out of contract.
        If you wish to read up on the european legislation and its implementation please visit sei web page  [broken link removed]

If you have any other queries please feel free to contact us. PM or www.stac.ie


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## S.L.F (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



joker538 said:


> If you refer to the post by Gafferino, he states that to do a professional job "it would be possible to complete 2 a day or maybe 5 in two days."



 Gafferino is a nameless faceless person since they only have 2 posts its not possible to verify what they say.

What I can say is the person I spoke to told me they could survey a property in a half hour and since you have not started to survey properties yet, anything you say must be taken with a pinch of salt.



joker538 said:


> And good luck to you. I was only replying to what I felt were inaccuracies in your posts. If you cant be an adult about it perhaps you shouold find another forum to post on.


 

  				Frequent Poster
 				 				  			 			  			  				 					 					Location: Dublin
 					 					 						Posts: 66 					




You are not a moderator.


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## joejoe (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



S.L.F said:


> Sash window restoration is only one of many things I'm able to do I can make kitchens, cupboards, book cases, wardrobes, tables, chairs, stools and all from scratch to what ever design and finish someone had in mind.
> 
> I can repair all the above not to mention doors, windows (all wooden types), floors and surrounds.
> 
> Regarding sash windows if you did any investigation on the subject of sash window restoration you'd know the only people who are qualified to restore sash windows are *cabinet makers *and* joiners*, your common garden variety chippie is not able nor qualified to restore sash windows properly.



Agreed, there is a massive difference between fitting a skirting board or joist Vs restoring a sash window or making furniture.

There was a lot of money to be made in your area of work. I have found some guys rates have droped by 50%.

So if you can supplement your income with doing BER cert, good look to you.

Joejoe


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## S.L.F (27 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ber Certificate requirement for the sale or letting of property starts on 1st Jan*



joejoe said:


> Agreed, there is a massive difference between fitting a skirting board or joist Vs restoring a sash window or making furniture.
> 
> There was a lot of money to be made in your area of work. I have found some guys rates have droped by 50%.
> 
> ...



I have no interest in doing BER surveys.

I wouldn't have the time.


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