# PRTB and repeat offenders



## norejon (29 Jan 2013)

Had a tenant a while back, went into rent arrears refused to psy , Got PRTB  determination order etc for the  tenant to move out and pay rent , The tenant refused to leave so i ended up taking him to court. Any ways long story but tenant eventually fled ,... no rent for months owed me thousands,,,

well i got a notion to check the PRTB dispute section and there in black n white my tenant !!!,,, up to old tricks again ,,, in rent arrears and overholding with another landlord ..


What does one do???


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## Dermot (29 Jan 2013)

Why can PRTB not publish names and address of rogue tenants and landlords for that matter where they have found against either party and then reference the particular case so as you can read the particular case. This would be probably too much to expect.
Why on the one hand is there absolutely no give in relation to penalties if you are even one day late in registering a tenant and on the other hand in my case no reply after registering over 3 and a half months without even an apology. I know there is an on line facility but I did not do it that way. That still is not an excuse for gross incompetence. A couple of years ago they cashed the cheque but never registered the tenant only found this out when registering a follow up tenant. They would not hear of a refund. Another quango out of control.


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## Joedemi (29 Jan 2013)

There's a mentality in the tenants these days in my opinion that, sure properties are on their knees ill just more somewhere else. This attitude of tenants needs to be stopped. Sure u have the government writing out to tenants telling them to negotiate their rent with their landlords, sure is it not illegal to negotiate rent in the midst of a lease. Sure what else can u expect from tenants if that's what the local authority are telling them to do.


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## Joedemi (29 Jan 2013)

Not sure if you are allowed post links here but this site seems to be tacking this problem for landlords tenantreference.ie
Im told I can't post links because I'm a new user, but u should definitely check it out.


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## bugler (30 Jan 2013)

norejon said:


> What does one do???



In terms of taking on a new tenant? Check references, for a start. It appears the landlord who took the tenant on after you didn't do this. I appreciate there are ways around this for a sneaky tenant, or that in some cases there are legitimate reasons a tenant may not have a reference available. But I think a lot of landlords are blasé about reference checking.

Next up, trust your instincts. This will obviously be better advice for those of us with good instincts, but you can tell a lot about a person by how they talk, how they appear, and how they interact with you. If you get a bad feeling over anything, trust it. 

As you well know now, there isn't really much help offered by the PRTB. That cuts both ways. There are some infamous landlords out there who are also repeat offenders and feature in the PRTB cases and media quite a bit. You do feel sorry for the oblivious who get into bed with persistently malignant landlords / tenants. There appears to be no real sanction against them.

I can't access tenantreference.ie from here, but it sounds like it could be a couple of months away from being closed down for legal reasons. Unless it is simply a bank of positive references or a record that someone has omitted to offer a reference.


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## AlbacoreA (30 Jan 2013)

Joedemi said:


> Not sure if you are allowed post links here but this site seems to be tacking this problem for landlords tenantreference.ie
> Im told I can't post links because I'm a new user, but u should definitely check it out.



That site (never heard of it before) seem to be a means of making a fast buck. Which is why new users can't post links to sites like that. The site doesn't explain anything that you can't do yourself, or what advantages or assurance of its information being better or correct. It may simply be a means of harvesting emails and details to target people with some other product. Whos to know?


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## AlbacoreA (30 Jan 2013)

The PRTB could help a lot by making their information searchable. 

The information (in the PRTB) is there already publicly available, its just not easy to find. 

References aren't that reliable. But I'd agree about trusting your instincts. Assuming you know you can trust your instincts. Some people are terrible at reading people or are gullible.


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## Harry31 (30 Jan 2013)

How do you find out about bad tenants on the PRTB website? We just had one who broke the door off the cooker, pulled curtain poles down etc. etc. she has now been given a massive 4 bed roomed house by Laois co.co. under their scheme - it's a great wee county alright!


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## AlbacoreA (30 Jan 2013)

I assume the disputes. But they are not easily searchable. 

[broken link removed]


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## oldnick (30 Jan 2013)

A LL who uses PRTB to evict a tenant is delaying getting a new tenant for months and losing rent in the meantime. Plus there is almost zero chance of getting any unpaid rent from that tenant, regardless whether PRTB rule in the LL's favour.

There are quicker ways of getting rid of bad tenants.
PRTB is the worst way.


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## norejon (30 Jan 2013)

Thanks guys . I now have a great tenant and it is a relief to be getting rent when due .. Hopefully it will last for a while.


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## TenantRef (30 Jan 2013)

Hi Bugler,
I notice you mentioned tenantreference site. Its my job to deal with this account for the site, this was delegated to me today and I thought I would have at least a couple of weeks easing in to it.
The site is a new service for landlords and letting agents to eliminate this type of scenario ever popping up in the first place. I myself am a landlord and some is all of the other guys involved in the business, so I personally know what you are talking about.
The website went live two weeks ago and I'm actually surprised that somebody has pickup on it already.
We are actually in the testing phase and will be for the next number of weeks.
I can assure you that the site will not be closed down for any legal reasons. The site has taken almost two years to bring to fruitition and is compliant with all aspects of defamation and data protection law.
If you would like me to explain in more detail or perhaps give you a tour of the site I would be delighted to oblige.


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## TenantRef (30 Jan 2013)

Hi AlbacoreA
Im just noticing you guys have mentioned tenantreference.ie as you can see from my comments above to Bugler.

Tenantreference is a proper legitmate bona fide service, albeit only recently launched. I can assure you we are not a way to harvest emails or any details, nor are we here to make a fast buck, in fact the service is free at this stage.

Yes in due course we do intend to charge for the use of the service but thats a long way off in the distance at this stage. 

Tenantreference was only recently launched after a lot of hard work and research.
The site has been developed by landlords for use by landlords and agents.

Each and every member of the team is a landlord and we all have our own horror stories to tell about what a small minority of tenants has done to tarnish even the use of the work *Tenant.*

We have found that in certain elements of society these days, there's a mentality by some tenants that the landlord is lucky to have them as a tenant and if the tenant doesn't like something thats going on, they are just up and leaving properties, with unpaid utility, rubbish and minor damages, this coupled with the month that it may take to find out that a tenant has left a property is costing landlords lots of money every day all over Ireland.

The aim of tenantreference is to eliminate this as soon as possible for its users.
If you want any further info on the service I will be delighted to inform you.
Thanks


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## fear peile (30 Jan 2013)

bugler said:


> In terms of taking on a new tenant? Check references, for a start.
> 
> 
> I wouldnt take a lot of faith on a reference from a previous LL, unless I knew the individual myself. It could be a situation that the better the reference given the more the LL wanted rid of the tenant.


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## AlbacoreA (30 Jan 2013)

New users can't post links, as too often its someone with a connection to the website linked, which they don't disclose. But there's usually some obvious links.  Joe


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## Bronte (31 Jan 2013)

I would love a website that listed good and bad tenant's.  And I'm sure i' would be the same for tenants in relation to landlords.  I often wondered if some computer genius couldn't go into the PRTB data base and do an analysis.  I wouldn't mind paying for such information as no one person could possible trawl through the PRTB decision.  

And a tenant taking a case against a landlord would not be necessarily classed as a bad tenant, it depends on the circumstances.  Bad tenants are those who do damage and don't pay their rent.  Bad landlords are those who don't do repairs on time and don't give back deposits etc.


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## AlbacoreA (31 Jan 2013)

A site like that would be open to abuse. Which has been the problem with a lot of those sites. Also I assume there would be data protection issues on holding such data and legal issues if you gave out the wrong information.


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## Republic (14 Mar 2013)

bugler said:


> I
> I can't access tenantreference.ie from here, but it sounds like it could be a couple of months away from being closed down for legal reasons. Unless it is simply a bank of positive references or a record that someone has omitted to offer a reference.


 
Why can't you access tenantreference.ie? 

It won't be closed down and is neither of those suggestions as it is not a site that actually contains references. It a contains a list of properties and landlords based on PTRB data. It allows a landlord to get a reference for a prospective tenant by providing the contact details for the previous landlord. It was on Dragon's Den last weekend and Barry O'Sullivan, the Dragon fron Cisco Systems invested in it.


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## facetious (15 Mar 2013)

I could name about 60 landlords that I know of who have had 2 or more claims with the PRTB (either the landlord claimed against the tenant or tenant against the landlord). Some of the have had all their claims awarded against them while others have been awared in all claims.

Likjewise, I know of about 20 tenants who have had more than 1 claim with the PRTB. Like the landlord, some have "won" all their claims and others have "lost all their claims"

The difference in the number of landlords and the number of tenants is, firstly, there are less landlords than tenants therefore their names will come up more frequently. Secondly, tenants tend to stay for a year at least, therefore if looking at PRTB decisions, one would need to look at more than one complete year to find a "repeat" tenant.

Unfortunately, the PRTB website does not permit a person to search the PRTB decisions online, even using google search or likewise. Again, some decisions do not have names as both tenants and landlords may opt out of having their names disclosed - again, IMHO, a mistake. Furthermore, sometimes the address of the tenancy is omitted. If they are going to make the decisions public, they should do so in its entirety.


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