# Good article by Brendan on mortgage arrears



## Dave Vanian (10 Jun 2008)

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/falling-behind-1403811.html


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

Brendan said:


> Don't believe everything you read in the Indo.
> 
> Brendan


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## Jonathan.OB (10 Jun 2008)

haha. brilliant!


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## efm (10 Jun 2008)

"To put things in perspective, the main banks and building societies repossessed only around 50 homes last year between the lot of them." - Brendan Burgess

I think this figure is misleading - a more accurate figure would be the number of repossession or mortgage suits that lending institutions bring against their clients. 

Last year there were 222 applications before the High Court regarding mortgage arrears or repossessions. [[broken link removed]]

If the figure of "50" as quoted by Brendan above, is from the Irish Bankers Federation, then it doesn't include the sub-prime lenders who aren't part of the .

Another point is that the number of actual repossessions is less than the number of "requested" repossessions - the Irish Courts are reluctant to enforce repossessions despite the lender requesting, and having grounds, for it.


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## SunShine Boy (10 Jun 2008)

Having read through a good number of threads on Banking/Arrears issues, does anyone else feel that there are more Bankophiles here than people on the side of the consumers.

No disrespect to Brendan intended - but I believe that an average layperson reading that article, with the author's name removed, would be easily convinced that it was produced by a Bank.  There seem to other disciples of the Banking Church here too.

Is this a consumer-focussed website or a Bank-influenced PR avenue ??????


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## Camry (10 Jun 2008)

I see a good few flaws. Including



> Can you sell half your home? Many people have bought homes with friends over the past few years. There is nothing to stop you selling half your home to a friend. This would reduce your mortgage dramatically


 
If you have bought in the "last few years", you most likely have negative equity.

_ Off topic rant deleted - Brendan _


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> Having read through a good number of threads on Banking/Arrears issues, does anyone else feel that there are more Bankophiles here than people on the side of the consumers.


No - there is a good mix of both. In fact I reckon that there are more of the latter than the former. Even the "bankophiles"  often post with their consumer hats on from time to time. There is no conspiracy here in spite of what some headers like to think from time to time.


> No disrespect to Brendan intended - but I believe that an average layperson reading that article, with the author's name removed, would be easily convinced that it was produced by a Bank.  There seem to other disciples of the Banking Church here too.





> Is this a consumer-focussed website or a Bank-influenced PR avenue ??????


The former. Certainly not the latter!


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> Is this a consumer-focussed website or a Bank-influenced PR avenue ??????


 
OK, I admit it. All the work over the past 20 years on behalf of consumers was just to lull them into a false sense of security. I am really paid a substantial retainer by a consortium of banks, brokers, insurance companies, building societies (especially), auctioneers, international property salesmen, government regulators, sub-prime lenders, money lenders, the Revenue, stockbrokers and sellers of investment products to elderly people to promote their interests surreptitiously.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

_Brendan _[broken link removed]:

[broken link removed]


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Jun 2008)

efm said:


> I think this figure is misleading - a more accurate figure would be the number of repossession or mortgage suits that lending institutions bring against their clients.
> 
> ...
> 
> Another point is that the number of actual repossessions is less than the number of "requested" repossessions - the Irish Courts are reluctant to enforce repossessions despite the lender requesting, and having grounds, for it.


 
Hi EFM

Yes. I sort of agree with you. I have made this very point myself at AGMs of the Irish Nationwide when they claim few repossessions. But the point I was trying to make was that you are very unlikely to lose your home. 

I did make the point that you should speak to the lenders to stop them taking legal action.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Jun 2008)

Camry said:


> I see a good few flaws. Including
> 
> 
> 
> If you have bought in the "last few years", you most likely have negative equity.


 
Why is this a flaw? Selling half your house is going to be one of the options for some people. 

Brendan


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## Dave Vanian (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> No disrespect to Brendan intended - but I believe that an average layperson reading that article, with the author's name removed, would be easily convinced that it was produced by a Bank. There seem to other disciples of the Banking Church here too.


 
I disagree.  If a borrower sticks their head in the sand about arrears, the bank will roll more interest (and possibly penalties) on to the account and will therefore make more money eventually.  

If a distressed borrower takes Brendan's advice and makes some effort to keep paying, the bank won't get to roll on as much interest.  

If you were asked by the Irish Indo to write a piece on what borrowers should do if they have difficulty repaying their mortgage, what points would you make?


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## Kemo_Sabe (10 Jun 2008)

Brendan said:


> Why is this a flaw? Selling half your house is going to be one of the options for some people.
> 
> Brendan


 
funny, I just searched on DAFT and couldn't find any half-houses for sale

maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?


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## SunShine Boy (10 Jun 2008)

Wow... it is impressive to see the rush of Administrators (Clubman) and stalwarts to Brendan's side.  I didn't intend to launch a personal attack on him - just express my opinion on the impression the article gave.

btw... loved the Cartoons - very funny 

Forgive me for I am new to using smileys.    A Bankophile is someone who is more sympathetic to the plight of Banks who have all legal bits & pieces on their side than they are to the consumer who finds themselves, through their own fault or not, facing a huge multinational with empty pockets.

I freely acknowledge that my personal situation, please see my posts at the weekend re arrears, means that I am biased in this area.  I just wonder how many people are biased towards banks without disclosing it.

As I said before I am not a Bank-basher - they are an essential organ of the Irish economy and state.  I would be disappointed is Clubman's "header" comment was aimed at me as I am certainly no such thing.

Brendan - a bit overkill on your disclosure of brown envelopes from the Banking industry - haha 

Listen - I respect this site as a free-thinking vehicle for informing oneself and interacting re financial issues.  It's just that sometimes ( as today) it can seem that people jump down your throat for not toeing the party line (consumers in default are useless headers who should lie prostrate at Banking altar).  

We all know its a tough world out there - one manifestation of this is when you are in financial difficulty.  The other personal finance blog I am active now, an American one, has a much more human feel to it... I guess I am wrong in automatically expecting the same here .... 

The financial best interests of those in default are not always the same as the Banks (in fact they may be competing).... negotiating a deal that least harms a non-fraudulent defaulter's long-term future is more important than paying the Bank every cent it lent.... who agrees ??


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> Wow... it is impressive to see the rush of Administrators (Clubman) and stalwarts to Brendan's side. I didn't intend to launch a personal attack on him - just express my opinion on the impression the article gave.


One admin posting in his personal capacity as a regular user a single post defending the site (not _Brendan _- he can fight his own battles) from ridiculous insinuations and accusations is a rush?!


> It's just that sometimes ( as today) it can seem that people jump down your throat for not toeing the party line (consumers in default are useless headers who should lie prostrate at Banking altar).


Who ever said or implied that?  


> We all know its a tough world out there - one manifestation of this is when you are in financial difficulty.  The other personal finance blog I am active now, an American one, has a much more human feel to it... I guess I am wrong in automatically expecting the same here ....


Not really sure what your precise point is here?


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## IFT (10 Jun 2008)

Brendan said:


> OK, I admit it. All the work over the past 20 years on behalf of consumers was just to lull them into a false sense of security. I am really paid a substantial retainer by a consortium of banks, brokers, insurance companies, building societies (especially), auctioneers, international property salesmen, government regulators, sub-prime lenders, money lenders, the Revenue, stockbrokers and sellers of investment products to elderly people to promote their interests surreptitiously.
> 
> Brendan



Didn't I read somewhere recently that you are also a substantial shareholder in AIB? Is there a conflict of interest there ? Shouldn't that be mentioned in the article as a caveat ? Personally, i would think it should.

Found it.


> AIB slump clips wings of €1m clubWealthy shareholders suffer losses





> THE number of "millionaire" Irish shareholders in AIB has nearly halved in less than three months, as the bank's share price tumbled.....
> ...
> Other well known big shareholders include [broken link removed], chairman of the Financial Services Consumer Panel and financial website, [broken link removed].


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## SunShine Boy (10 Jun 2008)

Ok.. let's try the forensic quoting thing:



ClubMan said:


> One admin posting in his personal capacity as a regular user a single post defending the site (not _Brendan _- he can fight his own battles) from ridiculous insinuations and accusations is a rush?!



If expressing an opinion on an article is an attack on the site (requiring "defending the site") perhaps you are a bit over-protective of your baby and should let the rational contributors have space to give air to their opinions.  I have no desire to fight a "battle" with anyone.  I have my hands full at the moment 

Its just that Brendan's article is almost exactly what I would expect to hear from an arrears guy in a Bank.  And, please, I am not doubting Brendan's integrity or the fact he has worked for 20 yrs on behalf of consumers... I am just saying to defaulters... try to work out a solution that least harms you and your family's long-term future rather than leaving yourself destitute by signing over everything you own to the bank.

I think I am not used to amount of moderation/admin/policing input that is involved on this site... I think I may be better off on my American site where people with an interest in personal finance exchange ideas rather than being accused of battling because they don't learn by rote from Mr Admin.


My precise point relating to a more human feel on the American site.... is that you find a lot of people in the same boat as yourself who share the daily trials and tribulations of trying to get out of debt - you are not judged to be a header nor are you simply fed brochures that banks would give to you about getting out of debt.


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## Camry (10 Jun 2008)

Brendan said:


> Why is this a flaw? Selling half your house is going to be one of the options for some people.
> 
> Brendan


 
"Off topic rant" indeed.

It's nice being able to stage manage both sides of a debate. Certainly good for the old ego I imagine. T'would be nice to have similar privileges. I might be inclined to edit any number of your posts with the comment "self serving twaddle deleted"

The flaw is in the fact that:

a) given they will owe more than the asset is worth in all probabilty they may not be able to sell
b) should they be able to secure some form of unsercured credit they will be facing higher interest rates on that significant sum.

But of cause the biggest greyest smelliest elephant following you around as an "authority" on personal finance is the ill advised "moderation" policy on this site that you take the opportunity to push in the media.

Do you lie awake at night Brendan and wonder to yourself whether any of these people now saddled with too much debt secured against an inflated, but depreciating, asset came to this site and found nothing but a "balanced" analysis of the Irish housing market conveniently cleansed of the majority of comments and argument that appear so bleeding obvious with 20/20 hindsight.

Dismal


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> If expressing an opinion on an article is an attack on the site (requiring "defending the site") perhaps you are a bit over-protective of your baby and should let the rational contributors have space to give air to their opinions.  I have no desire to fight a "battle" with anyone.  I have my hands full at the moment
> 
> Its just that Brendan's article is almost exactly what I would expect to hear from an arrears guy in a Bank.  And, please, I am not doubting Brendan's integrity or the fact he has worked for 20 yrs on behalf of consumers...


The following, if not attacks, are at least loaded comments rather than just opinions in my view:


SunShine Boy said:


> Having read through a good number of threads on Banking/Arrears issues, does anyone else feel that there are more Bankophiles here than people on the side of the consumers.
> 
> No disrespect to Brendan intended - but I believe that an average layperson reading that article, with the author's name removed, would be easily convinced that it was produced by a Bank. There seem to other disciples of the Banking Church here too.
> 
> Is this a consumer-focussed website or a Bank-influenced PR avenue ??????





> I am just saying to defaulters... try to work out a solution that least harms you and your family's long-term future rather than leaving yourself destitute by signing over everything you own to the bank.


I don't think that anybody here, including _Brendan_, would disagree with that in spite of the alleged bias you seem to perceive with the site and contributors.


> I think I am not used to amount of moderation/admin/policing input that is involved on this site... I think I may be better off on my American site where people with an interest in personal finance exchange ideas rather than being accused of battling because they don't learn by rote from Mr Admin.


Once again these seem like mealy mouthed comments designed to stir up controversy rather than actual genuine opinions designed to tease out the issues.


> My precise point relating to a more human feel on the American site....


Not sure what exactly you mean by "human feel" sounds like a euphemisms for people posting warm fuzzy feelings and other fluff rather than actually discussing and teasing out what may be difficult and tricky issues. If that's what you prefer then perhaps your other site is a better place for you alright?


> is that you find a lot of people in the same boat as yourself who share the daily trials and tribulations of trying to get out of debt - you are not judged to be a header nor are you simply fed brochures that banks would give to you about getting out of debt.


I never called people in this situation headers. I was referring to the small minority of people who for some reason believe all sorts of conspiracy theories about the site and the motivations of people who run it and contribute to it.


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## Dave Vanian (10 Jun 2008)

SunShineBoy - my earlier question is of genuine interest to me - If you were asked by the Irish Indo to write a piece on what borrowers should do if they have difficulty repaying their mortgage, what points would you make?


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> SunShineBoy - my earlier question is of genuine interest to me - If you were asked by the Irish Indo to write a piece on what borrowers should do if they have difficulty repaying their mortgage, what points would you make?


Presumably his article would have a "more human feel" anyway?


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## SunShine Boy (10 Jun 2008)

I am aware that this will seem like a chicken mealy-mouth fuzzy wuzzy thing to some of you... but I intend to return to my previous position of lurker on this site - learn what I can from reading other's posts without posting anything myself.

I have often heard it said that Ireland is 10 years behind America.  In terms on Internet blogs/discussions/forums where you can debate subjects as rational adults.... we most certainly are !!!!

Bon Jour ( as Del Boy would say )


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

SunShine Boy said:


> I have often heard it said that Ireland is 10 years behind America.  In terms on Internet blogs/discussions/forums where you can debate subjects as rational adults.... we most certainly are !!!!


Ah - I don't know - I think things are looking up on that front already ...


> I am aware that this will seem like a chicken mealy-mouth fuzzy wuzzy thing to some of you... but I intend to return to my previous position of lurker on this site - learn what I can from reading other's posts without posting anything myself.


Pity you didn't address _Dave Vanian's_ question before scarpering. Oh well...


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## IFT (10 Jun 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> SunShineBoy - my earlier question is of genuine interest to me - If you were asked by the Irish Indo to write a piece on what borrowers should do if they have difficulty repaying their mortgage, what points would you make?



Said in somewhat jest but nonetheless valid, hand back the keys and walk away from pouring money into a depreciating asset.

Extreme, maybe, but not beyond a reasonable assessment.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

IFT said:


> Said in somewhat jest but nonetheless valid, hand back the keys and walk away from pouring money into a depreciating asset.
> 
> Extreme, maybe, but not beyond a reasonable assessment.


Presumably _Sunshine Boy _would not agree with you?


SunShine Boy said:


> I am just saying to defaulters... try to work out a solution that least harms you and your family's long-term future rather than leaving yourself destitute by signing over everything you own to the bank.


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## SunShine Boy (10 Jun 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> SunShineBoy - my earlier question is of genuine interest to me - If you were asked by the Irish Indo to write a piece on what borrowers should do if they have difficulty repaying their mortgage, what points would you make?



Sorry... I can't go without responding to this... I was typing my good-bye b4 I seen it.

The points I would make are as follows:

Engage a good Solicitor.
Make a list of your Assets.
Make a list of your Debts.
Make a list of your income streams.
Can you obtain any more credit without being charged outrageous sub-prime rates (probably not).

In a nutshell - Try to negotiate to have as much as your debts written off/reduced as possible.

Don't keep making full payments to the Bank until your Assets have disappeared.

My parting gift to this discussion will be let Clubman agree with the above, say something condescending AND have the last word.


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## whizzbang (10 Jun 2008)

Does anyone know why comments are not being published for this article?


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

whizzbang said:


> Does anyone know why comments are not being published for this article?


Maybe because of  this from the _Indo _site?


> Comments are moderated by our editors, so there may be a delay between submission and publication of your comment. Offensive or abusive comments will not be published. Please note that your IP address (...) will be logged to prevent abuse of this feature. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by our Terms and Conditions


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## IFT (10 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Maybe because of  this from the _Indo _site?



Or maybe they are taking a similar line to how certain comments are not allowed on AskaboutMoney. !  No point rocking the boat.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

IFT said:


> Or maybe they are taking a similar line to how certain comments are not allowed on AskaboutMoney. !  No point rocking the boat.


In case there is any confusion or suspected conspiracy here no posts have been moderated/deleted in this thread so far. I have no idea how the _Indo _run/moderate their site other than what their terms & conditions state. If anybody thinks that they are suppressing comments then they should contact the web people or the newspaper editor.


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## Dave Vanian (10 Jun 2008)

Thanks for responding.  I just can't agree.  



SunShine Boy said:


> Can you obtain any more credit without being charged outrageous sub-prime rates (probably not).


 
Are you recommending here that if a person has got into trouble with debt, they should explore the possibility of taking on more debt?  



SunShine Boy said:


> In a nutshell - Try to negotiate to have as much as your debts written off/reduced as possible.


 
This is the one I have most trouble with.  People have entered into a contract with a bank - the bank loans them money; they pay the money back with interest.  But if they experience difficulty keeping up their end of the agreement, the bank should simply write off or reduce the debt?  Why?  

To turn it around, does that mean that if the bank experiences financial difficulty (it happens - see Bear Sterns etc.), they could come back to the borrower and ask to add, say,  €100,000 onto the outstanding amount?


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

I would also take issue with _SunShine Boy's _suggestion that one should engage a solicitor. In most owner occupier _PPR _situations this should be unnecessary and an undesirable additional expenses given that once the mortgage holder talks to the lender early on and makes best effort to deal with the issue and service the loan to the best of their ability the courts (should it even get that far) will generally look very sympathetically on their case.

I also have a problem with the suggestion that people should actively seek to run away from debts rather than deal with situations which they have ended up in through their own volition.


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## z109 (10 Jun 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> Are you recommending here that if a person has got into trouble with debt, they should explore the possibility of taking on more debt?


I presume what sunshine is referring to is the possibility of getting some of the debts refinanced at a lower interest rate.



> This is the one I have most trouble with.  People have entered into a contract with a bank - the bank loans them money; they pay the money back with interest.  But if they experience difficulty keeping up their end of the agreement, the bank should simply write off or reduce the debt?  Why?
> 
> To turn it around, does that mean that if the bank experiences financial difficulty (it happens - see Bear Sterns etc.), they could come back to the borrower and ask to add, say,  €100,000 onto the outstanding amount?


But they have, banks have raised their margins on variable rate mortgages for existing customers. They have pulled finance on mortgages where six months and more ago they had agreed it.

I seem to remember from my very rusty abd very brief dip into contract law something about the balance of power in a contract and the onus this places on the party in power? (Or is that a completely different country?!).


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## IFT (10 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I also have a problem with the suggestion that people should actively seek to run away from debts rather than deal with situations which they have ended up in through their own volition.



I would disagree. It is a contract between two parties whereby one party agrees to loan another party monies in exchange for holding overright ownership of the asset. Should the party break the contract ( run away is an emotive word when it is, in fact, only a breach of contract ), the other party knowing of this risk still has overright ownership of the asset.

There is no 'dealing with situations' but can be, in some cases, a logical conclusion to an unreconcilable problem.

The risk of the contract is mutual but you seem to suggest that the lendee should be more responsible.


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## Dave Vanian (10 Jun 2008)

yoganmahew said:


> I presume what sunshine is referring to is the possibility of getting some of the debts refinanced at a lower interest rate.


 
Fair enough, although this would have to be done *before* the borrower experienced any difficulties, which would require remarkable foresight.  If the borrower's income has reduced dramatically for some reason, or some loan repayments have been missed / paid late, they'll have no hope of switching to another lender.  




yoganmahew said:


> But they have, banks have raised their margins on variable rate mortgages for existing customers. They have pulled finance on mortgages where six months and more ago they had agreed it.


 
Not the same thing at all.  Banks have stayed within the terms of the agreed contracts, i.e. only amended variable rates for existing customers on Standard Variable Rates where the original loan offer specifically permits this.  

I've seen no examples where a bank has gone back to a customer and asked them to renegotiate the original contract that was signed.  All existing tracker rate rates have been untouched, ditto fixed rates.


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## ajapale (10 Jun 2008)

Please keep the discussion on topic "The Brendan Burgess Indo article" and post about AAM moderation policy elsewhere.


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## Brianne (10 Jun 2008)

I think that Brendan's article is very balanced and fair. This is Ireland , not N. America and in my humble opinio ,for the average person who has a morgage on an average house  , his advise to let the bank know of one's changed circumstances is the correct one. I know of someone who was in very serious trouble and got immense help by being honest with the bank and it took a few years to get back on their feet , but they did, and held onto their home.
On the other hand people who have huge unsecured debt and live beyond their means and then get into trouble may not get that level of help. And should they? 
As regards walking away from debt and handing back the keys, well you have to live somewhere and will end up paying rent, why not pay that amount back to the bank every month? If its an average house and as now. its hard to sell houses , surely the bank would prefer that rather than evicting you?
I'm just giving my opinion but from what I know of N America, going down the Chapter 11 (bankruptcy ) route is a very different situation to here. 
So thanks to Brendan for his advise.


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## Bank Manager (10 Jun 2008)

Well here comes the self confessed 'bankophile'....

Personally, I think Brendan's article is very fair (but there again I'm sure SunShine Boy would say what else would I say....)...

What frustrates me at times (and yes I know before everyone jumps on me that banks have centralised a lot of their lending/underwriting functions etc) - is that we are viewed upon as faceless entities - don't foget those of us in the front line share the same day to day challenges of raising families, paying mortgages etc etc as everyone else - so if you do get in to difficulty, please do talk with your banker (whoever he/she may be) - give that front line person the ammunition to fight your case for you, if you do you'll be amazed at what can be achieved - not talking with them, or feeding them committments that you know you can not keep will damage their credibility to represent both your case and others.

Don't think I've ever used AAM as a PR vehicle for my employer - but there again only others can judge that.

In summary - if you see any dark clouds on your financial horizon - take time to talk it through with your banker ....

Regards,


BM


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## newirishman (10 Jun 2008)

Dave Vanian said:


> To turn it around, does that mean that if the bank experiences financial difficulty (it happens - see Bear Sterns etc.), they could come back to the borrower and ask to add, say,  €100,000 onto the outstanding amount?



Have you heard about savings gone becuase a bank run into trouble? Guarantees only say up to 25K per account? And if say you have 100K in there and the bank goes bonkers you loose 75K just so?
What was the name of the rock-bank in England recenty?

So you don't have a full guarantee that all your savings are actually save. And every bank does a risk assessment and your interest rate will depend on it. Can you negotiate with a bank saying "I want 10% interest on my savings becuase I think you are likely to crush in the next two years?" Don't think so.


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## ClubMan (10 Jun 2008)

newirishman said:


> Have you heard about savings gone becuase a bank run into trouble? Guarantees only say up to 25K per account? And if say you have 100K in there and the bank goes bonkers you loose 75K just so?
> What was the name of the rock-bank in England recenty?


You mean _Northern Rock_? The bank in which absolutely nobody lost a penny in deposits or interest?


> So you don't have a full guarantee that all your savings are actually save.


You do with _Northern Rock_. And you have more than the €20K or so under the _Irish _depositor protection scheme with some other banks that operate here that are regulated by other european national central banks/regulators (e.g. _Rabo_).

These points are not exactly central to the original article in question though...


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## newirishman (10 Jun 2008)

ClubMan said:


> These points are not exactly central to the original article in question though...



Taking you point.


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## Bronte (11 Jun 2008)

Not a fan of banks but I'd far rather be in debt to an Irish bank than an American one.  In general Irish banks do not want to go down the repossession route, American banks by contrast lured people who couldn't afford it into loans and knew they would lose their homes.  The figures on Irish repossesions back this up.  I agree with the article, if in trouble your first call should be to the bank manager to discuss your options before things get worse.


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## tyoung (11 Jun 2008)

Bank Manager 
 To what degree have Irish banks used mortgage brokers?
 To what degree have Irish banks securitized their residential mortgage
 book?
 In the past getting a loan/mortgage may have involved a more personal relationship with a loan officer. I have long thought that inappropriately low interest rates would eventually cause problems in the  Irish property market  but changes in lending practices may also be a significant factor.


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## ClubMan (11 Jun 2008)

tyoung said:


> In the past getting a loan/mortgage may have involved a more personal relationship with a loan officer.


Are you sure? When I shopped around for a mortgage in 1995 I just went around all the lenders and got offers no problem after they met me for the first time ever.


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## tyoung (11 Jun 2008)

No, I'm not. That's why I asked someone in the lending business.


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## ClubMan (11 Jun 2008)

tyoung said:


> No, I'm not. That's why I asked someone in the lending business.


Oh - there was no question in the second part of your post:


tyoung said:


> In the past getting a loan/mortgage may have involved a more personal relationship with a loan officer. I have long thought that inappropriately low interest rates would eventually cause problems in the Irish property market but changes in lending practices may also be a significant factor.


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## LDFerguson (11 Jun 2008)

IFT said:


> Didn't I read somewhere recently that you are also a substantial shareholder in AIB? Is there a conflict of interest there ? Shouldn't that be mentioned in the article as a caveat ? Personally, i would think it should.
> 
> Found it.


 
I genuinely hope this was posted in jest.  

Or do you really think that Brendan writing a generalised piece in the Indo about what to do if you run into difficulty with your mortgage repayments is going to somehow have an effect on the AIB share price?  What - all AIB mortgage defaulters will rush out immediately on reading the article, blocking up the road to Damascus due to their numbers, will start making arrangements with AIB to repay their debt and the effect will be so huge that AIB's share price will buck the global stockmarket trend on bank shares?  No offence to Irish journalism, but I suspect you're attributing greater influence to it than it actually possesses.


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## IFT (11 Jun 2008)

LDFerguson said:


> I genuinely hope this was posted in jest.
> 
> Or do you really think that Brendan writing a generalised piece in the Indo about what to do if you run into difficulty with your mortgage repayments is going to somehow have an effect on the AIB share price?  What - all AIB mortgage defaulters will rush out immediately on reading the article, blocking up the road to Damascus due to their numbers, will start making arrangements with AIB to repay their debt and the effect will be so huge that AIB's share price will buck the global stockmarket trend on bank shares?  No offence to Irish journalism, but I suspect you're attributing greater influence to it than it actually possesses.



I dont believe i said that. 

What i am saying is that if i wrote an article in the indo about the Property market , would it be of relevance to declare any major financial interest. I believe so.


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## tyoung (11 Jun 2008)

Look Clubman,
 I am of the opinion that changes in the mortgages market may effect how it handles future mortgage arrears. I expressed that opinion here, a financial website. I also asked two particular questions of someone who appears to have experience of that business. I don't see the relevance of either of your postings.


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## LDFerguson (11 Jun 2008)

IFT said:


> I dont believe i said that.
> 
> What i am saying is that if i wrote an article in the indo about the Property market , would it be of relevance to declare any major financial interest. I believe so.


 
Why?

If Brendan wrote a piece expressing the view that AIB or financial shares in general were an excellent buy, then a declaration of interest would be appropriate. I fail to see how Brendan's personal shareholdings could possibly be considered relevant to the article that he wrote. 

By the same token, do you believe that every journalist who writes for the business pages should be required to declare their personal financial holdings? Or that every guest writer for a newspaper should be required to do the same, regardless of the content of the piece?


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Jun 2008)

Folks

Let's not side track the important issue here of what to do for someone in arrears. 

I hold my shares in my own name - I don't use nominee accounts to hide them. My shares are a matter of public record. Or very public as the Sindo likes to mention them from time to time.

If I refer positively to AIB on Askaboutmoney or elsewhere (which is not very often) , I mention that I am a shareholder. When I comment on banking practices in general, it is not relevant, so I don't mention it.

Brendan


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## Bank Manager (11 Jun 2008)

tyoung said:


> Bank Manager
> To what degree have Irish banks used mortgage brokers?
> To what degree have Irish banks securitized their residential mortgage
> book?
> In the past getting a loan/mortgage may have involved a more personal relationship with a loan officer. I have long thought that inappropriately low interest rates would eventually cause problems in the  Irish property market  but changes in lending practices may also be a significant factor.



Not sure I fully understand your questions ...

a) Are you asking 'do mortgage brokers bring mortgage applications to banks'?
ANS: Yes - (i) same lending criteria applies whether broker introduced or not and (ii) banks pay brokers a % comission when mortgage is drawn.

b) Are you asking if if Irish Banks secuitise their mortgage book (or part thereof)? 
ANS: Can't answer for the market as a whole - but I do know that the bank I work for (BOI) have securitised parts of the mortgage book in the past.

c) Not sure what question if any you are raising in your last paragraph.

Regards,


BM


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## ClubMan (11 Jun 2008)

tyoung said:


> Look Clubman,
> I am of the opinion that changes in the mortgages market may effect how it handles future mortgage arrears. I expressed that opinion here, a financial website. I also asked two particular questions of someone who appears to have experience of that business. I don't see the relevance of either of your postings.


Fair enough. But obviously I wasn't the only one confused by your post.



Bank Manager said:


> Not sure I fully understand your questions
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## tyoung (12 Jun 2008)

BM,
 Thank for your reply. If a bank securitizes
  a loan or mortgage who now owns the loan? Do they merely service the loan or do they still own the loan? So if a borrower falls into arrears on a mortgage can a bank be flexible or change a payment plan on a loan they have securitized?
Thanks


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