# VHI Plan B.....Implications of sticking with this plan or changing?



## serotoninsid

Hi.  i'm trying to get some info for some other folks as I know nothing about this whole thing as work pay for my HI.

Scenario 1:  Individual is single and in early 40's - With VHI for the last number of years on Plan B.  Last year cost €600+

Scenario 2:  OAP couple - have been with VHI for many years.  Last years premium was €1000+ ....again Plan B.


Should they look at changing or stick with what they have (albeit that I understand that VHI have raised premium substantially whilst cutting cover)?

What are the implications if they do change?


Thanks in advance for any input anyone can provide.


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## hazelgreen

I just changed two adult children from VHI today to Aviva.  The renewal rate has gone up this month but I had quotes for March 1st so renewed from that date.  The money difference is not so significant now but Aviva claim to give a better policy.  No long time service discounts! 50 years of cover paid to VHI on behalf of these adults between them ie cover from birth and no claims in respect of one and modest for other.


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## demoivre

Use the health-insurance-comparison on hia.ie to see if there is a better/cheaper plan.


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## Barry80

Hi. I also am looking at renewing my health insurance. I'm new to this site so maybe this has been discussed elsewhere. (pointers to other threads welcomed)
I heard on the wireless, (Matt Cooper show I think), that it was law in this country, that a policy made available to any one person, must be made available to everyone and anyone who wishes to avail of it.
I'm speaking of corporate policies. Let's say for example Wicrosoft have secured a good value corparate health insurance policy with HVI and made it available to their staff. 
Then (the theory is) any Joe Bloggs can call HVI and inform them he wants the same policy as his neighbour, Mr. Murphy, who happens to work as a technician in Wicrosoft.
Apparently it is illegal for HVI to refuse him that exact same policy.
Has anybody heard anything about this?
Again, I'm new and this has possibly been discussed, and not sure on forum rules regarding dropping company names.
Cheers.

Update: Just found a thread. Cant post a link.
askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=139356&highlight=corporate


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## Dinarius

*VHI Plan B - What's its USP?*

It's renewal time for me and, like many people, I've been on VHI Plan B almost by default, for as long as I've had health insurance. It really has been the 800lb gorilla on the health insurance block since forever.

I'm 51 and, like most people, I require a couple of visits a year to my GP/Physio and, occasionally, a consultant.

The renewal cost is €1224.44.

What has irked me always about Plan B is the Out Patient excess of €300. This renders making a claim for out patient costs in the average year pretty much null and void.

I've had a look at the HIA website and, when I input semi-private in a private hospital allied to low out-patient excess, I get a load of hits. Too many in fact! 

Many of them are much cheaper than Plan B and they offer the possibility of making a claim in an average year for a couple of GP visits etc..

So, my question is simple, why Plan B? What's the reason for its popularity?

Should I be considering another plan? 

e.g. Quinn's Company Care Plus is €880, about €350 less than Plan B. Factor in a claim (due to its low excess) and you'd be saving €400+ in an average year.

Here it is compare with Plan B.

[broken link removed]

What am I missing?

Thanks.

D.

Ps. If this has been discussed before, please redirect. Thanks.


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## serotoninsid

@Dinarius & others:  Since my original post - in trying to help a couple of folks get a better deal on this, it seems that if you switch insurer, you get locked out of many of the procedures that would ordinarily be covered by that policy for the first X number of years.  If this is the case, there is no incentive in changing or shopping for the best deal - as effectively, a straight comparison between two packages based on the premium alone is not a proper comparison (...it that makes sense...).

This whole system simply doesn't work!!


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## NovaFlare77

There isn't anything "magical" about Plan B, in that it doesn't have an absolutely essential, unique selling point. It's more of a case that Plan B (and by extension, VHI) is what most health insurers customers are used to, and as a customer once put it to me "it's better the devil you know than the angel you don't".

Historically, Plan B was the middle plan of VHI's offerings, so people joined it as it gave a broad level of access without completely breaking the bank. Even after VHI introduced Plans D & E, it was still the mass market product because the new plans were outside the financial reach of most people.

These days, I don't think Plan B is the behemoth it used to be, but that's probably as much down to VHI's push to its newer plans as anything else.

Anyways, that's enough history from me. Dinarius, I wouldn't be hesitant to move form Plan B, just because it's the most common plan on the market. Alot of that is historical and due to inertia, as opposed to a conscious choice by people. 

Your problem is that you have a very wide choice of alternatives, so see if there's any other way to limit the options on the HIA website. For example, can you just look at plans with no hospital excess to make it the list a little bit more manageable. Have you excluded maternity and child cover (if applicable in your circumstances), and so on.

I hope that helps a little bit!


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## NovaFlare77

serotoninsid said:


> @Dinarius & others: Since my original post - in trying to help a couple of folks get a better deal on this, *it seems that if you switch insurer, you get locked out of many of the procedures that would ordinarily be covered by that policy for the first X number of years.* If this is the case, there is no incentive in changing or shopping for the best deal - as effectively, a straight comparison between two packages based on the premium alone is not a proper comparison (...it that makes sense...).
> 
> This whole system simply doesn't work!!


 
In terms of cover in hospital, that's only the case if the new plan has additonal benefits over your previous plan AND if you claim for those additional benefits as a result of a condition/illness that existed prior to changing plan.

If it's a benefit common to both plans and you've fully served the waiting periods, then you can claim for that benefit straight away. 

Do you mind me asking where you got that information, because I think you were misinformed.


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## Dinarius

Thanks for the replies.

NovaFlare makes a point when he says that a lot of it is down to "inertia".

As an exercise, go to the HIA site http://www.hia.ie/ci/health-insurance-comparison/

...and do the following.

1. Click Would like to see In Patient only plans............

2. From the drop down menu that now appears choose, "I know the name of my current plan and would like to find alternative options."

3. Choose VHI Plan B at the top of the next page.

Now I chose as follows:

Without Excess

yes to Every Day Expenses.

LOw Out Patient excess.

No Maternity

No Children..


This gives me about 20 hits starting with Quinn's Company Care Plus for €880.20 all the way down to VHI's Plan B at €1224.44.

Mind boggling choice, but I just wonder about Plan B.

D.


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## Dinarius

I've just been asked to consider this policy (Nurses and Teachers Choice from Aviva) versus my existing VHI Plan B.

[broken link removed]

Switching looks like a no-brainer to me. I particularly like the fact that in patient excess is a fixed amount (€125) versus 90% with VHI. e.g. If you went into hospital for a serious procedure, that kept you in there for a couple of weeks, 10% of the total cost could be a serious amount of money. I'd rather pay €125 and let Aviva pay the rest.

There is the best part of €400 between the two policies.

What am I missing?

Thanks.

D.


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## Black Sheep

We (OH) and I have had VHI plan B + I had health steps gold as an add on for many years. Cost of both were rising rapidly so last year I decided to change. Thankfully we are both very healthy people and have ever only made one claim in our lives, so it was a very difficult choice as to what the future needs might be. How does one decide?

After much searching through many policies that I could not understand we opted for corporate 1.1 policy which is open to all (not just to those whose employers supply health cover). Last year we saved almost E600 and retained the same cover and slightly better in some areas.

We have just received our renewal notice for the coming year and of course it's up on last year but not as bad as Plan B + steps


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## Dinarius

Black Sheep,

Thanks for that. Will look into it.

I imagine a huge number of Plan B re-subscribers do so through inertia.

D.


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## Petal

I switched last year from Plan B Option to Company Plan Extra Level 2 Excess. Brilliant plan, more or less the same cover as Plan B (just some excess on some of the hospital covers) but full outpatient cover with an excess of 1 euro. and it's one of these company plans that don't get advertised, but VHI have to give to you (so a previous poster addressing this issue is correct).


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## Dinarius

Thanks again for the replies.

If I understand you correctly, here are the two plans you're on compared with Aviva's 'Nurses and Teachers' plan, which I've opted for.

[broken link removed]

Very, very similar in most areas.

I went through a broker and got it for €790. The difference in cost will cover a few GP visits that the plan doesn't cover (it only covers 1 x €30)

I think it's fair to say though that VHI Plan B, with its €300 out-patient excess (which renders out-patient claims in an average year futile) and its 90% cover for some serious (and potentially very, very expensive) procedures instead of a flat excess, coupled with its greater cost, is something of a joke. I just can't see why people go for it.

Thanks again.

D.


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## serotoninsid

Dinarius said:


> I went through a broker and got it for €790.



That's interesting.  I didn't even realise the brokerage route was an option in the health insurance market.  Is that the case with them all (ie. Quinn/VHI/Aviva)?


Are others going through a broker and getting a better rate?


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## pj111

Not specifically or necessarily a better rate but help to assimilate and tailor the best plan for your needs not only now, but during the year and each year thereafter.

_Patrick_


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## Billo

After many years of inertia I have changed plans.
 Last year I had HealthPus Excess(plan B Excess). After a 40% increase this year I have changed to PMI 19 11.
 It is very difficult to understand whether one plan is better or worse than another, even using the comparison site. 
Anyway I have decided to go with PMI 19 11. I hope it is a good decision. I am up about €400 in the price from day 1.


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## Shawady

Billo, what is PMI 19 11?
I have been with VHI for a long time and have seen a huge increase in my next premium and am going to shop around.


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## dymo

We have always been on Plan B + Options but it is just getting too expensive we have stwiched to nurse plan which is just as good with a lower excess.My partner is on first step pluss and it is great also get some money back for GP ect and is covered in private hospital.think this is about €900 this year.Nurse plan is 800 something i think compared to 1400.


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## Billo

Shawady said:


> Billo, what is PMI 19 11?
> I have been with VHI for a long time and have seen a huge increase in my next premium and am going to shop around.



Here it is compared with 2 other more expensive plans  :

[broken link removed]


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## G7979

I was reading this thread and rang to ask VHI about the PMI 19 11 plan which was priced about €755, however they told me that price was €986, I said that wasnt the price on the HIA website and I was told that price was only available to a particular company (wouldn't name it) and if I want that that plan it would cost me €986 from my renewal date of 1 Jan, I asked if there was a better plan for me and I was given the option of a First Plan Plus Level 1 - has anyone else had a simillar experience?


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## NovaFlare77

G7979 said:


> I was reading this thread and rang to ask VHI about the PMI 19 11 plan which was priced about €755, however they told me that price was €986, I said that wasnt the price on the HIA website and I was told that price was only available to a particular company (wouldn't name it) and if I want that that plan it would cost me €986 from my renewal date of 1 Jan, I asked if there was a better plan for me and I was given the option of a First Plan Plus Level 1 - has anyone else had a simillar experience?



Under open enrolment, health insurers can't charge different prices to different people for the same plan, outside of a group discount and child/student rates. It's possible that the €755 includes the maximum 10% discount for a particular company, but even then that would make the individual price approximately €839. 

Maybe the plan will be subject to a price increase and it will cost €986 from 1st January 2012. I don't see anything about that on the HIA website, but there's been so many updates from all the insurers lately, it's hard to keep track.


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## pj111

NovaFlare77 said:


> Under open enrolment, health insurers can't charge different prices to different people for the same plan, outside of a group discount and child/student rates. It's possible that the €755 includes the maximum 10% discount for a particular company, but even then that would make the individual price approximately €839.
> 
> Maybe the plan will be subject to a price increase and it will cost €986 from 1st January 2012. I don't see anything about that on the HIA website, but there's been so many updates from all the insurers lately, it's hard to keep track.


 

I would say that they are looking at your renewal date of 1st January and telling you the price at that time.

Tell them you want pmi 19 11 with a start date of 22nd December, as a separate contract to the one that you have and that you will not be renewing the initial contract on 1st January.

Let us know how you get on - don't take no for an answer. €679 is the price for certain large groups in December.


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## NovaFlare77

And if €679 is the discounted price, then €755 is definitely the correct (current) individual price.


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## ajapale

Remember, if you are reducing cover as part of a changed plan then waiting periods exist if you ever want to up grade again.

I suspect (but I dont have any proof) the Health Insurance Companies are operating a kind of merry-go-round in which customers are inticed by cheaper deals but with incrementally less cover. After a number of years and some changes a gap will have opened with what I would call "Plan B Classic".


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## Armada

Hi All, 

Vhi seem to be renamimg Plan B with options to Healthplus Extra. Does anyone know if the plan cover is changing as well as the name?

Doesnt seem to be on their website but I'm still not sure as its all quite vague.


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## Shannon81

pj111 said:


> I would say that they are looking at your renewal date of 1st January and telling you the price at that time.
> 
> Tell them you want pmi 19 11 with a start date of 22nd December, as a separate contract to the one that you have and that you will not be renewing the initial contract on 1st January.
> 
> Let us know how you get on - don't take no for an answer. €679 is the price for certain large groups in December.




if your renewal date is on the 1st of Jan you cant tell them you want a start date of the22nd-you are in a years contract .


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## pj111

Shannon81 said:


> if your renewal date is on the 1st of Jan you cant tell them you want a start date of the22nd-you are in a years contract .


 
I am not suggesting you break this "one year contract" -you let it run its course and don't renew.

I am suggesting that you take out a second plan with a start date in December and keep this one going forward.

VHI may say that you can't but where does it say that you can't ?

PMI is part of general insurance and you CAN have dual insurance - confirmed to myself by the HIA.

You cannot have double payout though for the same claim.

Don't take no for an answer. VHI will allow who they want to "break their contract". 

They are moving lots of their big group schemes to start dates in December without penalty. Please don't suggest that this is not the case as I have had first hand experience for clients of mine.

I have being quoted on this in the public domain.

_Patrick_


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## Berni

pj111 said:


> Tell them you want pmi 19 11 with a start date of 22nd December



The price is going up on the 22 Dec, according to the HIA website, so you would need to have it sorted before then.
[broken link removed]


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## pj111

Yes you are right. Needs to have a start date of 8th or 15th December -same principle as above.


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## Billo

Billo said:


> After many years of inertia I have changed plans.
> Last year I had HealthPus Excess(plan B Excess). After a 40% increase this year I have changed to PMI 19 11.
> It is very difficult to understand whether one plan is better or worse than another, even using the comparison site.
> Anyway I have decided to go with PMI 19 11. I hope it is a good decision. I am up about €400 in the price from day 1.



Got my renewal notice from VHI. I expected  E755 per adult(as discussed with VHI on phone) but the price quoted was E986 like pj111 in an earlier post.

Duel insurance not allowed and not allowed to change start date to 15 Dec to avail of lower rate etc


So I am looking to change to AVIVA.


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## pj111

Billo said:


> Got my renewal notice from VHI. I expected E755 per adult(as discussed with VHI on phone) but the price quoted was E986 like pj111 in an earlier post.
> 
> Duel insurance not allowed and not allowed to change start date to 15 Dec to avail of lower rate etc
> 
> 
> So I am looking to change to AVIVA.


 
Did they specifically say you cannot have 2 policies at the same time ?

Email and write to them to say that you will be cancelling your policy from 31st December.

Buy another policy online once they confirm your instruction and then within 14 days change to the plan of your choice - you would have until January 5th to this.

You will also avoid VHI's new rule of having to serve a waiting period for any increase in benefits *even if you have NO Pre Existing conditions.*

_Patrick_


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## Billo

pj111 said:


> Did they specifically say you cannot have 2 policies at the same time ?
> 
> Email and write to them to say that you will be cancelling your policy from 31st December.
> 
> Buy another policy online once they confirm your instruction and then within 14 days change to the plan of your choice - you would have until January 5th to this.
> 
> You will also avoid VHI's new rule of having to serve a waiting period for any increase in benefits *even if you have NO Pre Existing conditions.*
> 
> _Patrick_



They specifically did say that I cannot have 2 policies at the same time according to their legal dept. I rang the HIA and they agreed with VHI.

I have checked with AVIVA and have decided to join their scheme, at a cost of E811.


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## G7979

I had the same experience as Billo, they will not allow me to renew from the 15 Dec, Billo what plan did you get with Aviva? and how does it compare?


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## Billo

G7979



G7979 said:


> I had the same experience as Billo, they will not allow me to renew from the 15 Dec, Billo what plan did you get with Aviva? and how does it compare?



I was advised by other people with Aviva and went with Business Plan Select Plus at E811.
It is difficult to compare as it looks very similar to most other plans.
Take a look on the comparison site below. Some aspects look better, others not so good .

[broken link removed]


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## pj111

One doesn't see all the benefits under the HIA. Aviva much stronger on scan centres and the way they pay them. Wth the exception of Beacon, where VHI can treat Hermitage and Galway as hi tech hospital in some categories.

Where AVIVA have an outpatient excess of €150 or €250 they are for benefits that VHI do not cover. They will always pay out whatever is better for the customer so they pay €70 for unlimited visits to the consultant and not €55.

This time next  year, you call Aviva and register your claim, just send in the receipts and a cheque is issued within 3 days - no form filling. 

I will be onto the HIA in relationn to the dual insurance bit. 

_Patrick_


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## Billo

Thanks Patrick


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## G7979

Thanks for the info Patrick

I also went with the same plan Billo, for €811 - completely different experience, I told the man in the sales dept my renewal date was the 1 Jan and he advised me to take the policy from the 31 Dec as the price for the plan would rise on the 1st Jan to €911.

Basic customer service that was so lacking with the VHI call centre!


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## Billo

G7979,

I hope you were not relying on my expertise to choose that plan, as I know very little about it.  The whole health system is mostly double dutch to me.
Luckily for me,so far, I have very rarely been in a hospital or even to the doctor, but who knows what the future may hold,so I am relying on others for advice and hoping for the best in the future.
I still think it is safer to have health insurance than not, but one has to shop around.

Rgds


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## G7979

Hi billo, no, just used the plan as a reference point - far too many to choose from for me also, I looked at 3 with Aviva and 2 with Quinn and decided to go with Business Plan select plus, single, no dependants and relatively healthy seemed like all I needed from a health plan


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## pj111

Business Plan Select Plus is a very good plan and Aviva were right to tell you of the savings to be made by changing the start date by one day. 

_Patrick_


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## Shannon81

just a question-are Aviva bringing in shortfalls on all their plans or just certain ones?  I had heard about it but not sure if it will include all the business plans they cover


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## pj111

Only some plans, see the hia. NO opthalmic shortfalls like VHI and it is a known fixed amount unlike VHI who have a 20% shortfall. 

The one change that really matters is the VHI change to their rules on 1st January where they are imposing MAXIMUM waiting periods to switchers and existing customers for "upgrades" where there are no pre existing conditions.- this will back fire on them. I spoke to companies today who say they have had enough. The papers are running an article at the weekend about it.

_Patrick_


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