# Fender bump recorded as a claim



## Páid (23 Jan 2017)

A bit similar to this.

One Friday evening in October 2014 I was halted on red at a set of traffic lights. The lady in the car behind was checking her mobile phone and she didn't notice that her car was rolling forwards. As soon as she hit our car I looked in the mirror and saw her putting he phone down. There was no visible damage to our car so I got her details and told her that I would have the car checked out at a garage. I notified my insurance of what had happened.

This year in late December I got a renewal from the same insurer and it was €100 more expensive than last year so I shopped around. I got some ridiculous quotes but my current insurer turned out to be the best value. Being thorough, I entered my details (including the fact that I have had no claims) as a new quote on my insurer's website and got a quote €107 cheaper than the renewal they sent me. Happy to proceed I purchased the insurance. 

There was a delay issuing the insurance cert so I contacted them and was told that my policy had to be requoted to include the claim from October 2014 which was settled at €0 and that it didn't affect my premium. I have told them that I didn't make a claim in 2014 but that I notified them of the accident (if you can call it that) as I am required to do.  It is still recorded as a claim although I never signed a claim form (it was only the one phone call).

I only found out about the claim because of the delay in issuing my insurance cert.

Am I being over cautious or should I get them to correct their records?


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## PaddyBloggit (23 Jan 2017)

Get them to correct their records.

You informed them. You didn't claim.


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## mathepac (23 Jan 2017)

The requirement is to "claim free AND accident free". You were not accident free.


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## PaddyBloggit (23 Jan 2017)

I reported a fender bender to my insurer a few years back. It was accepted as a notification and it didn't affect my no claims bonus.


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## Steven Barrett (23 Jan 2017)

mathepac said:


> The requirement is to "claim free AND accident free". You were not accident free.



But surely if someone crashed into him, it shouldn't effect his premium. I can understand if it was the OP who crashed into the back of another car? 


I was in a fender bender a couple of years ago, where I was at fault (although I maintain she should have moved off and not waited for a bigger gap in the traffic ). She reported the claim immediately and my insurer told me I had the option of buying them out of the claim and it wouldn't effect my no claims bonus. I let them pay for it anyway. 

Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Páid (23 Jan 2017)

There was no damage to either car so it can hardly be called an accident.

They tell me that it is recorded as a claim that was settled for €0 and are refusing to correct it.

The problem for me is next year when I shop around I have a duty to disclose this "disputed" claim.


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## AlbacoreA (24 Jan 2017)

Make a formal complaint. 

Then after that try the Ombudsman.


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## mathepac (24 Jan 2017)

The OP self-reported an accidental a "coming together" of his vehicle and another. He was involved in an accident so he was not accident-free. Check what the insurer's standard operating procedure, SOP for short, is in relation to accidents; different insurers may have different SOPs. The requirement to be both claim AND accident-free is a fairly common one. 

What should he complain about? BTW, check you policy documents, certificates, endorsements and booklet for your insurer's requirements to keep your NCB. I don't write them, I just read what I'm given.


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## AlbacoreA (24 Jan 2017)

They won't remove a claim of €0

Regardless of the wording. For me that's sharp practise.


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## odyssey06 (24 Jan 2017)

It suggests there if you aren't going to claim, there is no point notifying the insurer, or if you do notify them, only when liability has been accepted by other party.


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## Páid (24 Jan 2017)

The best way to describe what happened was a nudge from the car behind.

The problem is that they didn't tell me they recorded it as a claim. When I completed the quote I entered no claims or accidents in the last four years because I was not aware of any. After the insurance policy was re-quoted by them they issued a schedule which is blank under the section titled Claims History. This section carries a clause at the bottom;



> You have confirmed that the above information is correct in relation to motor accidents or claims had in the last 4 years. This relates to
> accidents and claims on your own policy or any other policy, by you or the additional drivers noted on this policy. If the table is blank you
> have confirmed that no motor accidents or claims, regardless of fault, have been had by you or any additional driver on your policy in the
> last 4 years. Please notify us if any of the information is incorrect.



I don't want to be driving around only to find out that my insurance has been invalidated.


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## mathepac (24 Jan 2017)

Understandable, so then be aware of the consequences for you of reporting an accident.



AlbacoreA said:


> Regardless of the wording. For me that's sharp practise.


That makes no sense. An insurer sets out clearly in plain English the conditions under which you NCB is maintained. They then apply the conditions the policy holder was notified of and that's "sharp practice". Surely sharp practice would be if the didn't do what they said they'd do in the contract. Your post seems imply an expectation having your cake and eating it.


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## AlbacoreA (24 Jan 2017)

Where there is no damage or injury and their is no apparent or deliberate cause, or responsibility.

An increase in premium might be technically within the conditions of the contract but borders on being unethical.


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## T McGibney (24 Jan 2017)

mathepac said:


> Understandable, so then be aware of the consequences for you of reporting an accident.
> 
> That makes no sense. An insurer sets out clearly in plain English the conditions under which you NCB is maintained. They then apply the conditions the policy holder was notified of and that's "sharp practice". Surely sharp practice would be if the didn't do what they said they'd do in the contract. Your post seems imply an expectation having your cake and eating it.



Just because sharp practice is provided for in the small print of a contract doesn't mean it isn't sharp practice.

I'd love to see an insurance company try to argue in court that a minor bump giving rise to neither a claim nor any other financial or other consequence can be classed as an "accident" for the purposes of financially penalising a policy holder who reported it in compliance with accepted good practice.


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## Páid (24 Jan 2017)

And they are not being consistent. They tell me that the claim has been noted on my policy but it does not appear on the Schedule they sent me under Claims History.


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## mathepac (24 Jan 2017)

If the OP doesn't like the Ts & Cs, look elsewhere for insurance. If he thinks he was treated sharply or unfairly, talk to the FSO or whoever oversees insurance companies. I can't see the problem with listing conditions to the contract and abiding by them.

Just FYI there is no "small print" to motor insurance contracts anymore IME as a layman having read quite a few in my time and they are now written in plain understandable English and anyone is free to seek clarification on anything before or after signing up to a deal.



AlbacoreA said:


> Where there is no damage or injury and their is no apparent or deliberate cause, or responsibility.


Sorry, I don't understand


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## AlbacoreA (24 Jan 2017)

They should just write, 

1) because we can
2) because you have to


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## Páid (25 Jan 2017)

mathepac said:


> If the OP doesn't like the Ts & Cs, look elsewhere for insurance. If he thinks he was treated sharply or unfairly, talk to the FSO or whoever oversees insurance companies. I can't see the problem with listing conditions to the contract and abiding by them.
> 
> Just FYI there is no "small print" to motor insurance contracts anymore IME as a layman having read quite a few in my time and they are now written in plain understandable English and anyone is free to seek clarification on anything before or after signing up to a deal.



Mathepac, you're missing the point. I am aware of my fiduciary duty to disclose material facts. I reported the incident to my insurance company but they didn't tell me it was recorded as a claim. They didn't list it in the Policy Schedule under Claims History either yet insisted that it was a claim. They are the ones not abiding by their own conditions/rules.

They finally agreed this morning after a lot of over-and-back that it should not be recorded as a claim.


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## DirectDevil (26 Jan 2017)

Just a few observations on the general issues that arise from OP's experience.

Failing to advise an incident to insurers is a breach of a policy condition.

Failing to advise an incident to insurers is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1961.

The preceding points stand alone. Questions of degree of damage and the issue of fault have utterly no bearing on these requirements.

Deciding not to report an incident is always a bad idea for a few reasons.

Additionally, *if* you were ever applying for insurance elsewhere and decided not to mention an innocuous incident like this that could come back to haunt you as it is non-disclosure of a material fact. Apart from leaving you open to having a future claim rejected, and or the policy being voided, non-disclosure / misrepresentation is also an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1961.  

By the way the essence of the preceding point also applies to renewal with the same insurer. The duty of disclosure under an annual insurance contract - such as motor insurance - revives at renewal each year.

The fact that a policyholder is involved in an incident like this seems to me to be properly recordable as a claim at nil cost and not just for accounting purposes. *Claim* and *record of an incident, accident *and euphemisms sometimes get mixed up conceptually and semantically but I do see OP's point.

Where I would throw my toys out the pram in grand style would be if insurers attempted, in this scenario, to place any kind of underwriting loading on me on the basis of the frequency of accidents. However, therein lies a potential problem. Suppose that you had three such incidents in which the other party was completely at fault and you were blameless. They, properly speaking, should be recorded somewhere as three notifications of incidents or accidents. Could underwriters use that frequency as a justification for loading a policyholder at renewal ?


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## AlbacoreA (26 Jan 2017)

The reality is, they don't need a justification.


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## mathepac (26 Jan 2017)

Páid said:


> They finally agreed this morning after a lot of over-and-back that it should not be recorded as a claim.


I'm glad you got it straightened out in your favour.


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