# Ryanair making it difficult for customers to get refunds



## llgon

New approach for flight refunds from Ryanair









						Coronavirus: Ryanair suspends refunds and offers passengers vouchers instead
					

Customers who want money back can ‘join cash-refund queue’ until crisis has passed




					www.irishtimes.com
				




*Coronavirus: Ryanair suspends refunds and offers passengers vouchers instead*


Ryanair has started to tell passengers who want refunds for cancelled flights that they will have to wait until the Covid-19 pandemic has passed – but that it can offer them vouchers straight away.
In the first weeks of the coronavirus crisis Ryanair was praised in industry circles for bucking a trend among other airlines, including *Aer Lingus*, by adhering to EU regulations and automatically offering passengers refunds for cancelled flights instead of alternative bookings or vouchers.
In recent days, however, the airline’s position appears to have shifted: Irish Times readers report receiving Ryanair emails that say the airline cannot process refunds until after pandemic has subsided, and the best passengers affected by the mass cancellation of flights can hope for is a voucher valid for 12 months.
The emails tell passengers who “wish to request cash as an alternative” to a voucher that “as our payment agents are required to stay at home in the fight against the Covid-19 pandemic, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing cash refunds until the Covid-19 crisis has abated.


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## PaddyBloggit

From BreakingNews.ie

*"Eoghan Corry, editor of travelextra.ie, has said airlines are trying to change the rules to allow them to give flight vouchers instead.
Mr Corry said: "The law is that EU261 still applies, they have to give you back the cash within a two-week period."*


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## iamaspinner

PaddyBloggit said:


> *"The law is that EU261 still applies, they have to give you back the cash within a two-week period."*



I am well into my third week since I claimed a refund. I will keep on waiting.


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## joer

I dont see why they would not refund people, especially flights to Spain , Italy UK or USA who have been hit hardest . When this Covid 19 passes people are going to book flights again and I do not think that that the flights will be cheap either. I have an upcoming flight in May so I would rather get a refund than a voucher personally.


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## Odea

Still no refund from Ryanair despite me filling in refund request forms over two weeks ago.  I was also looking for a refund in respect of a hotel stay so I rang my credit card company.  The agent to whom I was speaking said that she had seen lots of EasyJet refunds but none from Ryanair.

I am sure that it will come in due course but a little bit of me thinks that they have lost my request somewhere.

Has anyone else received their refunds from Ryanair yet and what was the timeline?


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## Slim

Odea said:


> Still no refund from Ryanair despite me filling in refund request forms over two weeks ago.  I was also looking for a refund in respect of a hotel stay so I rang my credit card company.  The agent to whom I was speaking said that she had seen lots of EasyJet refunds but none from Ryanair.
> 
> I am sure that it will come in due course but a little bit of me thinks that they have lost my request somewhere.
> 
> Has anyone else received their refunds from Ryanair yet and what was the timeline?


Submitted the refund request on 20th March. A few days ago I received the 'We are working through the volume as quickly as we can' email. No refund yet. I'm sure it's not a priority for them.


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## Odea

Seems Ryanair are playing silly games.


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## Slim

Slim said:


> Submitted the refund request on 20th March. A few days ago I received the 'We are working through the volume as quickly as we can' email. No refund yet. I'm sure it's not a priority for them.


Update. Email from Ryanair attaching a voucher for the full value of my flight, valid for 1 year, despite my clearly seeking a refund. Now in  queue for Chatbot, having had to enter my  contact details & flight ref which they quoted on the email. Frustrating!


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## vandriver

Slim said:


> Update. Email from Ryanair attaching a voucher for the full value of my flight, valid for 1 year, despite my clearly seeking a refund. Now in  queue for Chatbot, having had to enter my  contact details & flight ref which they quoted on the email. Frustrating!


I thought your confidence in your previous post was misplaced!
I got through to a human on the chat on Sunday morning in 10 minutes.


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## Slim

vandriver said:


> I thought your confidence in your previous post was misplaced!
> I got through to a human on the chat on Sunday morning in 10 minutes.


Well, it was all going too well, wasn't it? I am still waiting for a reply to my Chat question!


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## Slim

vandriver said:


> I thought your confidence in your previous post was misplaced!
> I got through to a human on the chat on Sunday morning in 10 minutes.


Did that resolve the refund issue?


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## vandriver

Slim said:


> Did that resolve the refund issue?


Quote.....



Perfect.​I have informed Ryan Air refund team that you will not need voucher as refund, and you will get refund in bank once COVID_19 situation is over, until that if you wish to book any flight to any date you want, you can do it using voucher and if you don't book in that mean time, you will get cash(bank transfer) back for sure. Thank you very much for your understanding and cooperation​Please note that as our payment agents are required to stay at home in the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing cash(bank) refunds until the COVID-19 crisis has abated.​Thank you very much for your understanding in this hard time we all are living.​


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## MrEarl

Im sure that Ryanair could return funds, if they wanted to...


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## Odea

93 pages, nearly all complaints on the TripAdvisor Air Travel forum.  This company is sitting on €4 billion in cash and can well afford to make refunds to those people some of whom may have lost their jobs....


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## Slim

vandriver said:


> Quote.....
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect.​I have informed Ryan Air refund team that you will not need voucher as refund, and you will get refund in bank once COVID_19 situation is over, until that if you wish to book any flight to any date you want, you can do it using voucher and if you don't book in that mean time, you will get cash(bank transfer) back for sure. Thank you very much for your understanding and cooperation​Please note that as our payment agents are required to stay at home in the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing cash(bank) refunds until the COVID-19 crisis has abated.​Thank you very much for your understanding in this hard time we all are living.​


I am waiting 24 hours now but no reply from a Customer Care agent!


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## joer

Ryanair are saying , on the Independent this evening, that it is giving customers "all options" . This is including free moves and refunds in the form of cash or vouchers . The process time for refunds is taking longer due to demand. Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will be refunded in due course.


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## Brendan Burgess

I  applied for a refund the other day
Today I got the email offering me a voucher.
I don't want it as it expires in one year and I would prefer cash anyway.  (I think I took the Aer Lingus voucher as it's 5 years and +20%)
They gave a link to get cash refunds but there is nothing on the page which shows me how to get the cash instead.


_If you do not wish to accept this voucher option and wish to move your flight or request a refund, please click here to contact us. Please note that as our customer care agents are required to work from home to limit the spread of COVID-19 virus, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing refunds as quickly as we would like to._

There should be a simple link to get cash back.

Brendan


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## llgon

Brendan Burgess said:


> Brendan



Did you sell your shares?


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## Sunny

Odea said:


> 93 pages, nearly all complaints on the TripAdvisor Air Travel forum.  This company is sitting on €4 billion in cash and can well afford to make refunds to those people some of whom may have lost their jobs....



They can also well afford to pay their staff with €4 billion in cash but they are leaving the majority of that bill to the taxpayer. Of course, Ryanair shareholders will tell you that is good responsible business sense. However, trying to hang on to the same cash and avoiding cash refunds to customers is wrong when the same shareholders are also customers. Wonder if shareholders weren't also customers, would they see anything wrong with it?


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## Daddy Ireland

Got the email.  Want a refund.  Do I have to use their 'Chat now' to get into a queue for the refund ?


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## MrEarl

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0423/1134412-consumer-advisory-over-cancelled-flights/

Confirmation of entitlement to a refund within 7 days, then you should submit a formal complaint...


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## joer

The Commission for Aviation says today that for cancelled flights you are entitled to a refund of the ticket price. This should be refunded within 7 days. Passengers are under no obligation to accept vouchers , it has said. If people do not receive a refund within 7 days can make a complaint to the airline and if no satisfactory response is received within 6 weeks then the complaint can be made on www.flightrights.ie for flights due to fly from any Irish Airport , it says.


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## tommygirl

I have been trying to navigate around website to see how to apply for refund instead of voucher if anyone could advise. On refund page it says airline not correct  but booked with Ryanair, am on Ryanair refund request page! As daddy Ireland asked - is the only option the chat now button (I got tired after an hour waiting for any response).


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## Baby boomer

Ryanair are breaching the Regulation and are playing silly buggers to induce people to forego their rights and their money.  

It's worth noting that member states are required to have sanctions in place for airlines that breach the Regulation.  From EU Regulation  261/2004, Article 16.3:  "The sanctions laid down by Member States for infringements of this Regulation shall be effective, proportionate and dissuasive."

The "effective, proportionate and dissuasive" formula of words has a specific meaning in European Law which was set out in the Von Colson case back in the 1980s.  It means that citizens must have an accessible remedy for a breach and must receive effective compensation for any breach.  That compensation must not be purely nominal, and must be sufficient to act as an effective disincentive for breaching the Regulation.  If a member state fails to put such a system in place, then the citizen may secure compensation from the State.


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## Slim

Daddy Ireland said:


> Got the email.  Want a refund.  Do I have to use their 'Chat now' to get into a queue for the refund ?


Seems to be the case. I'm waiting for a human Chat since Tuesday !


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## Marion

I read somewhere  that refunds would be given when COVID19 no longer existed - whenever that happens! I think it was an Irish Times article.

found it.

“In a new statement to The Irish Times on Wednesday, Ryanair stresses that it will give affected customers “all of the options set out under EU regulations, including free moves and refunds in the form of cash or vouchers”. Cash refunds are taking longer than normal to arrange because “we are having to process 10 times the usual volume and have fewer staff available due to social-distancing measures”.
It says it is offering vouchers and free date changes “as these are automated and would give customers an alternative”, adding that “customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will be refunded in due course, once this unprecedented crisis is over. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and we thank our customers for bearing with us.”



Wednesday 22 April Conor Pope article in Life and Style.


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## flyingfolly

I've been waiting 3 days in queue for a chat agent so far...


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## PaddyBloggit

Ryanair says it is offering refunds as cash or vouchers.


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## MrEarl

The fact that some people in Government are supposed to be considering changing the rules, to allow airlines avoid giving refunds, is alarming. 









						Government urged to resist lobbying to have rules changed on refunding passengers after cancelled flights
					

THE Government has been called on to resist lobbying to have the rules changed on refunds for passengers whose flights have been cancelled.




					m.independent.ie


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## Daddy Ireland

audioflaps said:


> I've been waiting 3 days in queue for a chat agent so far...


Gosh you have waited a long time without any sleep.


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## Daddy Ireland

Sure that chat box is pure ridiculous.  How can one keep watching their phone waiting and waiting.


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## Brendan Burgess

My approach to this is that it will have to be solved at a global level. 

People should flood www.flightrights.ie   saying that there is no facility on the website to get a refund. 

I presume that they will direct Ryanair to fix the problem.

I am very tolerant of delays during the current crisis and would not expect any airline to meet the 7 days time limit.  But Ryanair should not make it impossible for people to make a claim for a cash refund.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

This is a good idea. 





__





						Avantcard chargeback link
					

Does anyone know how to do a chargeback on an Avantcard creditcard?  Ive fallen victim to Ryanairs no refund decision after they cancelled flights and I want to do a chargeback.



					askaboutmoney.com
				




Ask your credit card company to do a charge back. 

If this happened a lot, then the credit card companies might tell Ryanair to do it themselves. 

Brendan


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## elacsaplau

In fairness, Ryanair can be credited with democratising air travel. That said, air travel is a disproportionate polluter so that may not be the best thing.

In any event, there are so many people that have had, at some stage or other, really bad experiences with them. In my opinion, it seems that they try to be customer focussed but on occasion, a magnetic pull to act very poorly comes to the fore and this is yet another example of this phenomenon.


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## flyingfolly

Daddy Ireland said:


> Gosh you have waited a long time without any sleep.



Not sure if you've heard, but its actually possible to leave a computer on at night when you're asleep. Its incredible - life changing!

On day 4 of still in queue to get through to Ryanair support team now


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## Grizzly

I got and returned the email to Ryanair looking for a cash refund when my flight in mid April was cancelled.

I am not one of those people who have received any email now offering a voucher in lieu of the cash refund.

Has everybody received one of the voucher emails who previously were offered a cash refund?


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## iamaspinner

Grizzly said:


> Has everybody received one of the voucher emails who previously were offered a cash refund?



I have. I think that they are just stalling in the hope that the rules are changed so that they are not forced to give refunds anymore. I'm going to start sending complaints and requesting charge backs. 4 billion in cash and hoping they can get away with murder???


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## Grizzly

They have lots of flights for sale for the month of May?  Why?


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## iamaspinner

Grizzly said:


> They have lots of flights for sale for the month of May?  Why?


1. People buy tickets
2. Flights are cancelled
3. People request refunds
4. Ryanair offer vouchers

I wonder...


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## joer

I have just received an email from Ryanair offering me a full refund for my cancelled May flight or re routing option. I have applied for a refund on the link provided and I will have it in due course. That sounds positive..


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## Gervan

joer said:


> I have just received an email from Ryanair offering me a full refund for my cancelled May flight or re routing option. I have applied for a refund on the link provided and I will have it in due course. That sounds positive..


I have received several of those, joer, over the past weeks. I was also, at one time, pleasantly surprised. But have since received 2 (unwanted, unusable) vouchers for my 3 cancelled flights. I have tried to get a response from their chatbot but am not convinced it actually ever does anything.


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## joer

I will try not to get too excited so , at least for the moment.


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## Slim

Gervan said:


> I have received several of those, joer, over the past weeks. I was also, at one time, pleasantly surprised. But have since received 2 (unwanted, unusable) vouchers for my 3 cancelled flights. I have tried to get a response from their chatbot but am not convinced it actually ever does anything.


I am one week waiting for an agent to respond on their Chat facility!


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## Foxy007

Ryanair email claiming they are now entitled somehow under EU to deny refunds!  We were at the start of the queue so doubt anyone has seen a cent yet. I have made a complaint to the Air regulator. It's downright scary that we've trusted these people with millions of flights yet they are unable to deal with refunds or answer straighforward concerns.


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## tommygirl

FYI. Email received yesterday from Ryanair. I am happy enough that I can get refund at end of 12 months if unused credit. The 12 months limit was my greatest concern (I have <€200 in voucher). Sister however has €1600 tied-up with them so different circumstances and refund preferred.

You have recently received an email with a voucher code to the value of your original booking.

Please note that this voucher is valid for 12 Months and can be used for your future travel plans, please note that if you do not use the voucher the voucher before the expiry date you will receive a full cash refund, in the event you use the voucher in part you will also receive the option of a voucher for the balance or a cash refund after the expire date.

Please click on the link below to accept the voucher


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## Saavy99

Ryanair changes refund policy to allow unused vouchers to be exchanged for cash (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/con...d-vouchers-to-be-exchanged-for-cash-1.4240327


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## Sunny

That's actually pretty smart by Ryanair. Bear in mind the risk even if small that airlines won't be around in 12 months to honor the cash refund element


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## Foxy007

The mail I refer to came in overnight and they need to make a direct statement on the refunds. We should be able to receive clear and consistent information directly from Ryanair. If you ask for a refund and do not retract that request why would you get a voucher, or alternatives instead? Its clear they are trying to get people who have asked for a refund to change their minds. What bothers me is that they are suddenly looking to the Montreal aviation clause in EU law. If that is deemed to apply then no airline has an obligation to refund.


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## Gervan

Seeing Ryanair live chat opens at 6am I tried again, and at 06.04 got a reply from their agent. She was very pleasant, found two of my vouchers and recorded my voucher refusal in the system. No voucher had been issued for the earliest cancelled flight, so she couldn't deal with that. I feel I have moved a step forward, but no definite dates have been given.


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## Saavy99

Saavy99 said:


> Ryanair changes refund policy to allow unused vouchers to be exchanged for cash (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/con...d-vouchers-to-be-exchanged-for-cash-1.4240327




At the end of the article it says

"Earlier this week the company’s outgoing marketing office Kenny Jacobs said that people who insist on getting cash refunds instead of vouchers would have to wait in the region of three months before they were processed"


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## Slim

tommygirl said:


> FYI. Email received yesterday from Ryanair. I am happy enough that I can get refund at end of 12 months if unused credit. The 12 months limit was my greatest concern (I have <€200 in voucher). Sister however has €1600 tied-up with them so different circumstances and refund preferred.
> 
> You have recently received an email with a voucher code to the value of your original booking.
> 
> Please note that this voucher is valid for 12 Months and can be used for your future travel plans, please note that if you do not use the voucher the voucher before the expiry date you will receive a full cash refund, in the event you use the voucher in part you will also receive the option of a voucher for the balance or a cash refund after the expire date.
> 
> Please click on the link below to accept the voucher


I also received this email overnight. I opted for cash refund on March 20th. I have been trying to get a CS agent online for a week now.
I am inclined to not click to accept this latest voucher as I would prefer the cash, sooner rather than later.


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## DK123

Hi.tommygirl and Slim I am also in the exact same position.I am weary about clicking to accept on the voucher also.I suspect that they will find a way to lessen the value of the voucher when we use it by extra fees etc if we settle for it .I also would prefer the cash even though i might have to wait some time.Any advice or comments would be welcome.Kind regards.


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## The_Banker

DK123 said:


> Hi.tommygirl and Slim I am also in the exact same position.I am weary about clicking to accept on the voucher also.I suspect that they will find a way to lessen the value of the voucher when we use it by extra fees etc if we settle for it .I also would prefer the cash even though i might have to wait some time.Any advice or comments would be welcome.Kind regards.



Again, I am in the same position.. 
they are saying that they will give cash if the voucher isn’t used, but they have changed things so many times who is to say they won’t change again in a months time?
Also, It appears that the Irish Government along with 11 other governments are lobbying the EU on behalf of airlines to allow the airlines give vouchers instead of money back. This is a dangerous president.


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## Foxy007

Yes the airlines have EU law in their favour. However when that section was devised I doubt anyone predicted that it would not be a war but a virus that would force the cancellation of flights. I am hugely disturbed by people claiming to want to protect their business when they may not have commerce in any case because of a drop in global population.....wanting to travel.


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## MrEarl

Foxy007 said:


> Yes the airlines have EU law in their favour.



Sorry, but that is not correct. 

Current legislation entitles passengers to a full refund within 7 days. 

The airlines, supported by some governments are lobbying the EU for a change to the current rules.


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## MrEarl

If you are waiting more than 7 days for your cash refund, immediately submit a formal complaint to Ryanair. 

Assuming no satisfaction, then submit a complaint about Ryanair here: 

https://www.flightrights.ie/make-a-complaint.10.html


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## Brendan Burgess

Guys

I am trying to  keep these threads useful.

This thread is about Ryanair and Ryanair only.

Please do not discuss other airlines in this thread - your post will be deleted.

If you want to get a refund from Aer Lingus, start a thread with Aer Lingus in the title.

Do not discuss government policy - there is another thread for that. 

Brendan


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## Foxy007

Apologies but I am being factually correct. 
Check EU regulation 261/2004..pg 2 no. 14 ......this is why Ryanair is suddenly joining forces with other airlines. 
"As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on oper- ating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circum- stances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier."

You have the right to ask, complain, contact them but if the EU decides to allow this we are potentially getting nothing. I complained about their treatment of customers.


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## Foxy007

Minor update .... Ryanair boss was on BBC stating refunds will happen but they will just take time currently. Why they can just send 1 email to all of us who asked for refunds stating that is beyond me. I refuse to believe they couldn't do that one thing to address customers concerns correctly. In fairness they are the only airline to speak publicly so a little credit due.


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## Daisy duke

I applied for a refund on cancelled April flights back in late March. Went through the usual 20 day processing  time updates and further mails apologising for the delay. The voucher then arrived this week. I did not accept it. Got through to an agent via the chatbot at 7.30 this morning. I was only waiting a couple of minutes. Explained I didn’t want the voucher. He acknowledged my request and confirmed he would put me on the refund que and would get e mail confirmation of such within 2 business days. The e mail arrived about an hour later. I also heard O Leary on BBC this morning who maybe seems to have had a change of heart but did say they would process cash refunds, but it would take time. Confirmation mail attached for reference. Maybe it’s progress, we will see


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## Baby boomer

Foxy007 said:


> Apologies but I am being factually correct.
> Check EU regulation 261/2004..pg 2 no. 14 ......this is why Ryanair is suddenly joining forces with other airlines.
> "As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on oper- ating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circum- stances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an
> 
> You have the right to ask, complain, contact them but if the EU decides to allow this we are potentially getting nothing. I complained about their treatment of customers.



Hi Foxy,

You can put your mind to rest a little!  The bit you quote is from the preamble to the Regulation and sets out the basis for the contents of the Regulation itself.  The operative bits are the Articles of the Regulation.  Article 7 sets out the right to compensation (usually €250 for cancelled or delayed flights.) Article 8 specifies the right to reimbursement or rerouting.   Article 5 sets out when the provisions of Articles 7 and 8 apply.  I
Article 5.3 excludes compensation under Article 7 but not reimbursement under Article 8 if the airline can show "extraordinary circumstances."

So, to summarize:
Ordinarily, if the airline cancels, you get your money back PLUS compensation.
In extraordinary circumstances, you get your money back.  No additional compensation.

That's the law.  The Irish Government cannot change it.  Only the EU can.  And changing EU law takes time.  And requires signoff by the European Council and the European Parliament.  

So, you ARE entitled to that money within seven days.  End of story.


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## Sunny

Yes you are entitled to your money within 7 days. Never mind the global pandemic, the hundreds of thousands of other people looking for refunds across all of Europe, the airline having the same workplace restrictions as other companies. I was waiting 7 weeks for a refund from a hotel with less than 100 rooms. Things take time. But hey, keep quoting the law to them. That will make them work faster....


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## llgon

Sunny said:


> Yes you are entitled to your money within 7 days. Never mind the global pandemic, the hundreds of thousands of other people looking for refunds across all of Europe, the airline having the same workplace restrictions as other companies. I was waiting 7 weeks for a refund from a hotel with less than 100 rooms. Things take time. But hey, keep quoting the law to them. That will make them work faster....



Ryanair were emailing customers during the pandemic in March when workplace restrictions were already in place telling them they would get a refund to the payment method within 7 working days. We're now in May and it seems that they have processed very few, possibly none. Yet they are very efficient at sending out vouchers that customers have already told them they don't want.

Make all the excuses you want but they don't wash with me.


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## Sunny

llgon said:


> Ryanair were emailing customers during the pandemic in March when workplace restrictions were already in place telling them they would get a refund to the payment method within 7 working days. We're now in May and it seems that they have processed very few, possibly none. Yet they are very efficient at sending out vouchers that customers have already told them they don't want.
> 
> Make all the excuses you want but they don't wash with me.



Sorry they don't wash with you. Keep quoting legislation to a company that is burning cash and letting go of 3000 employees and remind them you are very important and that your refund should be top of the queue. They have said everyone will be refunded within 6 months. Since that doesn't wash with you, feel free to bring them to Court quoting your legislation...… I am sure they will rush your case to the top of the queue there as well.


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## llgon

Sunny said:


> remind them you are very important and that your refund should be top of the queue.



Why would I do that? I have nothing booked with them.


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## Baby boomer

Sunny said:


> Sorry they don't wash with you. Keep quoting legislation to a company that is burning cash and letting go of 3000 employees and remind them you are very important and that your refund should be top of the queue. They have said everyone will be refunded within 6 months. Since that doesn't wash with you, feel free to bring them to Court quoting your legislation...… I am sure they will rush your case to the top of the queue there as well.


That's harsh.  They're a company with billions of cash on the balance sheet.  The government is paying their employees.  Returning money to customers who are legally owed that money should be a top priority.  It's not like they're doing much else these days in fairness.


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## Foxy007

I still say those of us who have asked for refunds won't be able to set our minds at rest.... if it is even in the preamble to the regulation it can still be used in defence or for emergency legislation if the EU decide to rescue their airlines. Hence Ryanair are referring to it.



Baby boomer said:


> Hi Foxy,
> 
> You can put your mind to rest a little!  The bit you quote is from the preamble to the Regulation and sets out the basis .....


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## Leper

I've no  Grá for Ryanair, but we are in an unprecedented pandemic. Those who are entitled to refunds will get them, of that there can be no doubt. I don't know when this will happen, but the main thing is it will happen.

3000 pilots and cabin crew laid off, administrative staff caught up in unprecedented paperwork, call-centre being jammed by callers looking for their €49.99 refunds etc. I reckon patience is required. I'm just imagining Michael O'Leary eating his breakfast reading through the daily newspapers and unions on his back, costs mounting etc and you think he is going to give a few €49.99 refunds before anything else?  I don't think so! Get back in the Non-Priority queue.


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## Baby boomer

Leper said:


> I've no  Grá for Ryanair, but we are in an unprecedented pandemic. Those who are entitled to refunds will get them, of that there can be no doubt. I don't know when this will happen, but the main thing is it will happen.
> 
> 3000 pilots and cabin crew laid off, administrative staff caught up in unprecedented paperwork, call-centre being jammed by callers looking for their €49.99 refunds etc. I reckon patience is required. I'm just imagining Michael O'Leary eating his breakfast reading through the daily newspapers and unions on his back, costs mounting etc and you think he is going to give a few €49.99 refunds before anything else?  I don't think so! Get back in the Non-Priority queue.


Of course it doesn't spoil his breakfast!  He's the one sitting on an interest free loan from Joe Soap.  Now, if there were a swingeing penalty for breaking the law, he might look up from the feed of rashers and order a minion to get those refunds paid and pronto.


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## DK123

Irish begrudgery is alive and well.God how i hate it.Worse than cov 19.in my humble opinion of course.!


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## Baby boomer

DK123 said:


> Irish begrudgery is alive and well.God how i hate it.Worse than cov 19.in my humble opinion of course.!


So if some gurrier robs your stuff, it's begrudgery to want it back?


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## Leper

Baby boomer said:


> So if some gurrier ribs your stuff, it's begrudgery to want it back?
> So if some gurrier robs your stuff, it's begrudgery to want it back?


Let's cut the semantics and stick with the facts. Nobody robbed your money and nobody has an interest free loan from you. You want your money back and so do thousands of others. It is likely Ryanair wants to get the problem solved too. It will be refunded to you and the only question is when. 

But, if you work in administration in Ryanair you're sitting in an office with thousands of emails arriving by the hour and later that day the same emails from the same people are again arriving. The same happens the following day and every day for weeks. Suddenly, you have meltdown and nobody gets anything. It's like being at a yellow boxed junction with the road ahead clear of traffic but with the usual morons illegally stopped in the yellow box preventing traffic that can move to remain still.


----------



## Baby boomer

My eyes are welling up here with sympathy for Ryanair and their administration staff under bombardment from unhappy customers!  I mean unhappy customers must be such a novel experience for them
And just to be clear; I have no dog in this fight.  I never fly with them if there's any kind of reasonable alternative from an airline that doesn't pride itself on treating people like dirt.

Now, I'm a reasonable guy.  I get that companies are busy.  I get that it's an exceptional circumstance.  Stuff happens, that's life, we make the best of it and move on.  So I could perfectly understand if Ryanair said something like: _*We're really sorry for the inconvenience.  We're working as fast as we can to get your refund to you.  We are currently processing refunds from flights booked before day X, or cancelled before day Y. We expect to have all refunds completed by day Z.  If you would prefer a voucher, click here and we'll give you a 10% bonus extra on your cancelled ticket price. *_

Now that would be quality customer service.  And it would be fair.  Naturally, that's not what Ryanair did.  Their attitude is basically, _*F-you, we've got your money; we'll make it as difficult as possible for you to get it back, we won't tell you when but don't expect it any time soon.   We'd really like you to take this not terribly useful voucher instead so we'll send it to you anyway and hope you'll get so fed up you'll just roll over and accept it.  And maybe never use it and just forget about it.  *_

Now, I don't like that attitude.  It's lousy customer service.  It's illegal.  It typifies the reasons I try not to fly with them.  It's unreasonable.  How come they're unable to process cash refunds but can readily process vouchers.  Pull the other one!


----------



## MrEarl

Baby boomer said:


> Now, I don't like that attitude.  It's lousy customer service.  It's illegal.  It typifies the reasons I try not to fly with them.  It's unreasonable.  How come they're unable to process cash refunds but can readily process vouchers.  Pull the other one!



That's it, in a nutshell.

To claim that they can't find a way to refund peoples money,  just isn't believable.

I appreciate that they may need to create a new process, authorise staff to start making manual payments via a restricted bank account, or maybe pay someone to write some software, so payments can be returned electronically, but refunds could be made, if they wanted to make them.

I expect that Ryanair pay their staff electronically, by uploading payroll files to their Bank. Can something similar not be done, to refund their customers? If a similar system can't be used to make large numbers of automatic card payments, I'm sure customers would be more than willing to provide their bank details.

I'd have a lot more sympathy and understanding for an airline that came out publicly and stated that they just didn't have the cash to refund everyone, but would make payments as circumstances allowed, or give vouchers for 110% which could be used at any time in the future etc.

I would also want to be confident that an airline had really tried various means to raise funds, to facilitate reasonably prompt refunds, including :

* Bank loans
* Issuing Corporate Bonds
* Issuing new shares and selling them to raise more capital (via rights issue, public offering or trade deal with a corporate investor)

As for our Government, they've just made a bad situation worse here.


----------



## Leper

Baby boomer said:


> My eyes are welling up here with sympathy for Ryanair and their administration staff under bombardment from unhappy customers!  I mean unhappy customers must be such a novel experience for them
> And just to be clear; I have no dog in this fight.  I never fly with them if there's any kind of reasonable alternative from an airline that doesn't pride itself on treating people like dirt.
> 
> Now, I'm a reasonable guy.  I get that companies are busy.  I get that it's an exceptional circumstance.  Stuff happens, that's life, we make the best of it and move on.  So I could perfectly understand if Ryanair said something like: _*We're really sorry for the inconvenience.  We're working as fast as we can to get your refund to you.  We are currently processing refunds from flights booked before day X, or cancelled before day Y. We expect to have all refunds completed by day Z.  If you would prefer a voucher, click here and we'll give you a 10% bonus extra on your cancelled ticket price. *_
> 
> Now that would be quality customer service.  And it would be fair.  Naturally, that's not what Ryanair did.  Their attitude is basically, _*F-you, we've got your money; we'll make it as difficult as possible for you to get it back, we won't tell you when but don't expect it any time soon.   We'd really like you to take this not terribly useful voucher instead so we'll send it to you anyway and hope you'll get so fed up you'll just roll over and accept it.  And maybe never use it and just forget about it.  *_
> 
> Now, I don't like that attitude.  It's lousy customer service.  It's illegal.  It typifies the reasons I try not to fly with them.  It's unreasonable.  How come they're unable to process cash refunds but can readily process vouchers.  Pull the other one!



 My Gawd! Boomer. You're making it as difficult as possible to receive your money back from Ryanair.  Like I said in a previous post the more you bombard them with your wants, the more Ryanair will ignore you. Most other companies in the same situation would probably ignore you too. 

Ryanair was never excellent at Customer Service. In fact, Michael O'Leary in one of his television appearances stated "The Customer is Nearly Always Wrong." And that was in the day when there was no coronavirus. It makes you wonder what he'd say now. Unless you lived in a deserted island off Antarctica for the past 20 years you must have known that Ryanair's Customer Service is almost non existent. 

You and others bombarding Ryanair with shoals of (electronic) paper complaints will only frustrate you and lengthen the time you'll be waiting for a reply. Believe me, as a former employee of Customer Service section in a huge company where the person who whispered was dealt with first and those who shouted were left to keep shouting. I could write a book on the experiences and my Number One Rule was deal first with those who were civil and largely ignore as long as possible those who were making my life difficult. It always worked.


----------



## SlugBreath

I am due to fly with them to Marseille later this month. They are still selling flights there. I can "check in" online.  Yet they are saying that 99% of their flights have been cancelled until July or later.  

Are they still flying to France this month?


----------



## Purple

Baby boomer said:


> The government is paying their employees.


 Really? How did he manage that? Other companies are paying people off and the government is paying them €350 a week (unless they were well paid in which case they get nothing). How come Ryan Air are getting their employees paid?


----------



## Leper

SlugBreath said:


> I am due to fly with them to Marseille later this month. They are still selling flights there. I can "check in" online.  Yet they are saying that 99% of their flights have been cancelled until July or later.
> 
> Are they still flying to France this month?



Hi SlugBreath, I reckon you'll get good odds on that from some online bookmaker.


----------



## Baby boomer

Purple said:


> Really? How did he manage that? Other companies are paying people off and the government is paying them €350 a week (unless they were well paid in which case they get nothing). How come Ryan Air are getting their employees paid?


Ah here now, you know the answer to that one.  They're availing of the Covid-19 temporary wage subsidy.  Perfectly entitled to of course, as many employers are also doing.  But they *have* staff.  They *could* accelerate the cash refunds.  Legally, they should.  They just chose not to.  No skin off my nose.  It's years since I flew with them and I've nothing booked with them.  But I feel sorry for the many people for whom a flight refund would be very helpful in these tough times.


----------



## Purple

Baby boomer said:


> Ah here now, you know the answer to that one. They're availing of the Covid-19 temporary wage subsidy. Perfectly entitled to of course, as many employers are also doing.


Yes, for employees who are not working for them at the moment.


----------



## Wahaay

I know it's sometimes unfashionable but I'm a huge fan of Ryanair which is a true homegrown Irish success story.
I have an upcoming flight in July with them.It's only a short hop to London as part of an onward flight but I'll be happy to take a voucher off them.I fly frequently with them so will always be able to use the voucher.
The onward flight is with Easyjet and I'll shortly be able to re-arrange those flights at no extra cost for the same time next year when the Summer 2021 schedules are released.
Lufthansa are also offering similar terms for our cancelled long haul flights at Easter and I expect to avail of Aer Lingus's voucher scheme for a long haul flight in August.
There's something odd about people happy to accept breaks in their mortgage payments because of Covid-19 but insisting airlines repay flight costs instantly, particularly as there's a good chance that airline might go bankrupt if it was to attempt to do so.


----------



## Purple

I agree 100% Wahaay.


----------



## Baby boomer

Wahaay said:


> ......
> There's something odd about people happy to accept breaks in their mortgage payments because of Covid-19 but insisting airlines repay flight costs instantly, particularly as there's a good chance that airline might go bankrupt if it was to attempt to do so.


Well, let's apply the same logic then.  A borrower who accepts a break will be required to pay interest in full for the duration of the payment break.  If Ryanair are imposing a "break" on their obligation to refund fares, they should likewise pay interest to the customer.

And Ryanair is cash rich with billions in reserves, plus it owns virtually all of its fleet outright.  There's zero chance that repaying hard-up customers will bankrupt it.  (In fairness, that doesn't apply to every airline.).


----------



## Odea

SlugBreath said:


> I am due to fly with them to Marseille later this month. They are still selling flights there. I can "check in" online.  Yet they are saying that 99% of their flights have been cancelled until July or later.
> 
> Are they still flying to France this month?



If you don't check in you will be treated as a "no show". You lose your payment.
If you do check in, then they will have to contact you and let you know that your flight has been cancelled. So you will be able to claim a refund.

If they are not flying that route later this month then they should not be advertising this route for sale nor asking customers to check in.

Maybe by leaving it so late, they are hoping that people cancel and then the customer loses their payment.

Their website is still showing multiple of routes for sale despite the company announcing that they are cancelling most of their flights.


----------



## Ceist Beag

EU is taking a case to ensure states enforce airlines to offer refunds. 








						EU seeks to reopen borders for summer
					

The EU has pushed for a safe reopening of borders, while insisting on protective measures such as masks on planes, to try and salvage the tourism sector for the lucrative summer season as coronavirus infections recede.




					www.rte.ie


----------



## Foxy007

Its not a case of liking or disliking Ryanair for me.  Also I used to manage services and support desks at the start of my career so understand managing excess volume... and it can be done.  Delighted the EU is taking a stance instead of sitting on the fence. They just don't want to give money back right now. Vouchers will be forgotten about or used only in a certain way.... as Ryanair wishes (T&Cs). Consumers change their right when they accept them that's why they are on "offer". My issue is that they confirmed I was getting a refund then have asked me to change my mind or wait. I am patient generally but this is very bad treatment of customers.


----------



## MrEarl

Agree 100%.

I hope we now see our acting Government do a quick about turn and stop trying to help the airlines force vouchers down our throats.

By all means, let the airlines try to incentive us by offering vouchers on more generous terms, but pony at the absolute discretion of the customer. Being almost blackmailed into taking the vouchers, with suggestions that we won't get our refund for months to come, is simply wrong and needs to be stopped.


----------



## Baby boomer

MrEarl said:


> Being almost blackmailed into taking the vouchers, with suggestions that we won't get our refund for months to come, is simply wrong and needs to be stopped.



That's it in a nutshell!   It's an appalling bullying attitude to the customer.  When an organization behaves like that, I just refuse to do business with them.  I don't need that attitude and I prefer to walk away.


----------



## tomdublin

This airline's apparent attempt to illegally pocket millions of its customers' money is not just a consumer protection issue but also a challenge to the rule of law.  It's time the media started covering it from that perspective.


----------



## MrEarl

tomdublin said:


> This airline's apparent attempt to illegally pocket millions of its customers' money is not just a consumer protection issue but also a challenge to the rule of law.  It's time the media started covering it from that perspective.



Not to mention, our acting Government!


----------



## Daisy duke

Hopefully success at last, got notification today my refund for cancelled April flights has finally been processed.


----------



## Slim

Seems like progress!


----------



## Foxy007

Wow ....mine was a March flight ...but. not a sign of our refund yet.


----------



## Foxy007

Wahaay said:


> I know it's sometimes unfashionable but I'm a huge fan of Ryanair which is a true homegrown Irish success story.
> I have an upcoming flight in July with them.It's only a short hop to London as part of an onward flight but I'll be happy to take a voucher off them.I fly frequently with them so will always be able to use the voucher.
> The onward flight is with Easyjet and I'll shortly be able to re-arrange those flights at no extra cost for the same time next year when the Summer 2021 schedules are released.
> Lufthansa are also offering similar terms for our cancelled long haul flights at Easter and I expect to avail of Aer Lingus's voucher scheme for a long haul flight in August.
> There's something odd about people happy to accept breaks in their mortgage payments because of Covid-19 but insisting airlines repay flight costs instantly, particularly as there's a good chance that airline might go bankrupt if it was to attempt to do so.



Um As someone who has a mortgage and do not think that mortgage breaks are a good idea at all......I suggest you check how much Ryanair got from our govt and the UK govt to bolster their already huge capital....they have the means to pay it back and just won't.


----------



## WolfeTone

The vast majority of Ryanair flights are booked on-line I would imagine, using an automated service. Tap, tap, tap and your flight is booked and paid for with a debit/credit card. 
I'm not very IT savvy, but I would imagine an automated service like this could easily be reversed where flights have been cancelled and tap, tap, tap or pat, pat, pat if you will, and hey presto! your money is back in your account. 
Isn't that the normal course of affairs if a flight is cancelled?


----------



## Daisy duke

Foxy007 said:


> Wow ....mine was a March flight ...but. not a sign of our refund yet.


Try emailing info@care.ryanair.com, that’s how I got mine


----------



## pling1974

We booked flights in February with Ryanair to travel in July

Currently the flight is scheduled on Ryanair website to leave as scheduled and they are still selling seats.

We have not checked in to date

Currently under the Department of foreign affairs and trade (DFA) we are to avoid all non-essential travel our destination.

Should we check in as Ryan Air will see us as a no show and not give us a voucher/refund? This is my understanding

We have insurance but they have advised that we should ask for a refund from Ryanair but if we have checked in and the flight leaves on the date then Ryanair will see us as a no show

Appreciate any advice


----------



## Leo

pling1974 said:


> Should we check in as Ryan Air will see us as a no show and not give us a voucher/refund? This is my understanding



If the flight goes ahead, you will not get a refund, and insurance will only cover you if there is a DFA travel restriction in place at the time. 

You didn't mention your destination, but there is an expectation travel restrictions will be lifted or reduced in the next week or so. It'll likely depend on how that country is faring as to whether the advisory will be lifted or not.


----------



## pling1974

thanks Leo, 

we are going to Germany, do you reckon we should check in?


----------



## Leo

pling1974 said:


> we are going to Germany, do you reckon we should check in?



You don't have to just yet, but you've nothing to lose doing it.


----------



## Foxy007

Daisy duke said:


> Try emailing info@care.ryanair.com, that’s how I got mine


2 days and not even an ack. that email was received.


----------



## WaterWater

Mid April flights cancelled and still nothing back......not even an email to say that money is on the way...….....the thing is, I don't even know if they are processing my refund or if it has been lost........just like my expected parcel from UPS, due last week.

Lots of companies and people in companies not doing their job properly....


----------



## iamaspinner

Also mid April flights cancelled but I have received a couple of emails (automated, I suppose), the last one about a week ago:

_Dear Customer,

I refer to your recent request for a refund on your booking confirmation XXXXX.

Due to the high volume of flight cancellations due to COVID 19, we are experiencing an unprecedented high volume of requests. We are currently working through the backlog and ask that you please bear with us.

Please do not resubmit your request.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Yours sincerely, _


----------



## RentingD

That's disappointing to hear that April flights are not processed yet. We would have been travelling next week. Amazing how they can take payment instantly but can't reverse the transaction too quickly. It's hardly that complex


----------



## Foxy007

I'm talking about March! Ours was one of the first cancelled. So much for the promise we would only be waiting 3 months.


----------



## Gervan

I got a refund on 14/06 for cancelled flight 03/04. Waiting for 2 other Ryanair refunds, mid April and early May. One seems to have become invisible, the other is live according to recent emails. It's a lucky dip.


----------



## shweeney

pling1974 said:


> thanks Leo,
> 
> we are going to Germany, do you reckon we should check in?



why would you check in?

We're booked to France for early July, based on the latest update yesterday, the DFA travel advisory will still be in place for that date, so in theory we're covered by insurance (I took out the travel disruption add-on back in March). But I still hold out hope Ryanair will cancel the flight.

AIUI if we cancel we get the taxes/charges back, but I'll be waiting until the last minute, I've already put the insurance claim in (as we had to cancel the accommodation when the balance was due a few weeks ago).


----------



## Foxy007

Stunned to report Ryanair have finally processed our refund. No Smilie covers the shock!


----------



## pling1974

shweeney said:


> why would you check in?
> 
> We're booked to France for early July, based on the latest update yesterday, the DFA travel advisory will still be in place for that date, so in theory we're covered by insurance (I took out the travel disruption add-on back in March). But I still hold out hope Ryanair will cancel the flight.
> 
> AIUI if we cancel we get the taxes/charges back, but I'll be waiting until the last minute, I've already put the insurance claim in (as we had to cancel the accommodation when the balance was due a few weeks ago).



in our travel insurance policy it states that you have to check in to the flight for them to cover it i.e. intended to fly. if we check in Ryan air take that as you are going to fly with them therefore you cant get a refund from Ryanair 

FYI out travel insurance replied with the following 

We will only consider nonrecoverable costs that are listed under cancellation section of the policy wording. So you should first approach the airline, tour operator, accommodation provider or travel company for a possible refund or to see if they will amend the itinerary.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Could someone do a Key Post/FAQ  on this to save the rest of us reading through 6 pages. 

Ryanair cancelled my flight - I want cash back. How do I get it?


----------



## Bronco Lane

Eddie Wilson on radio this morning said that they are up to the middle of April now regarding refunds.


----------



## Foxy007

Just about Bronco ...given that mine was March and only refunded Friday.


----------



## iamaspinner

I received my refund earlier today. It was for flights in Easter.


----------



## Slim

After months of checking my credit card account in expectation of my refund, I tried the chat service again today an, surprisingly,  I got a Customer Care agent today. He advised me that, as I had not requested a refund for the second time, on receipt of the voucher email, I was not in the refund queue. He said he would request the refund for me and it should take a maximum of 6 weeks. We'll see!


----------



## joer

That is far too long to be waiting for a refund...Is it any wonder that people do not want to cancel holidays.


----------



## Slim

joer said:


> That is far too long to be waiting for a refund...Is it any wonder that people do not want to cancel holidays.


I agree. I pointed out that I had requested a refund on March 20th and was now waiting over 3 months. Said they could not expedite the refund. Email arrived this evening confirming the conversation. Shoddy treatment I think.


----------



## MrEarl

Why not do a charge back?


----------



## Slim

MrEarl said:


> Why not do a charge back?


I tried to contact them by chat but when I gave up I lazily sat back waiting for the refund, naively thinking it was being processed. I looked at the credit card website and I figured they would have expected me to have spoken with Ryanair etc. I let it slide, tbh!


----------



## moneymakeover

Hi
My outbound Ryanair flight (25 July) was cancelled
But the return flight (8 Aug) has not yet been cancelled
Separate bookings
If return flight is not cancelled is there anything I can do?
I don't see the option for vouchers if not cancelled.

So the only option I can see is to re-schedule the flight to later this year?
Must be same route?
And €40 fee per passenger?

*Update*:  fee to move flights is waived due to covid19. So that's something.  Sun holiday October?


----------



## joer

Because they are separate bookings might make it awkward . There is the possibility that the return flight will be cancelled but  it might not be. If you can get through it might be better to talk to someone.


----------



## Slim

Slim said:


> After months of checking my credit card account in expectation of my refund, I tried the chat service again today an, surprisingly,  I got a Customer Care agent today. He advised me that, as I had not requested a refund for the second time, on receipt of the voucher email, I was not in the refund queue. He said he would request the refund for me and it should take a maximum of 6 weeks. We'll see!


Update: Ryanair credited my credit card account with the value of the first booking today.


----------



## Gervan

I had another go at the live chat. Told it would be a few weeks. I pointed out I had already been waiting 4months, and said could he at least tell me was the refund likely to arrive this year or next!
Slim you have given me hope!

Interestingly, after the chat session a comment box popped up, asking was I happy or not! And what could I suggest to improve matters. I wrote that the agents should be supplied with factual answers to the most likely questions, rather than having to fudge and try to mollify customers with prevarications.


----------



## joer

Is it any wonder that people are flying abroad for a holiday.. It would be less hassle than trying to get a refund, it would seem.


----------



## Foxy007

Thats precisely what they wanted. 

And to be clear I formally complained to the regulator about the way people were treated...... communication needed to be as clear as the speeches delivered via Ryanair management.  Unfortunately when there is a problem in Ireland there is a lot of "calm down.... its all addressed" from spokespeople via media when in fact the companies (and I daresay political parties) are in complete turmoil and disarray. We just saw very sadly what chaos ensues, when a low cost operation experiences a crisis.


----------



## SlurrySlump

I had flights with Ryanair for mid April. Still no refund. Has anyone got refunds for mid April flights yet?


----------



## iamaspinner

SlurrySlump said:


> I had flights with Ryanair for mid April. Still no refund. Has anyone got refunds for mid April flights yet?


I have.


----------



## Gervan

SlurrySlump said:


> I had flights with Ryanair for mid April. Still no refund. Has anyone got refunds for mid April flights yet?


Just got one from 12th April cancellation.


----------



## Slim

SlurrySlump said:


> I had flights with Ryanair for mid April. Still no refund. Has anyone got refunds for mid April flights yet?


Did you get through to a rep on the chat to assert your request for a refund?


----------



## SlurrySlump

I am currently on Ryanair Help. Thirty minutes ago I typed my question. All I can see on the screen is my question looking back at me. Nothing to say that there is an operator waiting at the other end to help. Is there someone at the other end?  What is the normal wait time?


----------



## Slim

SlurrySlump said:


> I am currently on Ryanair Help. Thirty minutes ago I typed my question. All I can see on the screen is my question looking back at me. Nothing to say that there is an operator waiting at the other end to help. Is there someone at the other end?  What is the normal wait time?


It varies. Does it even say that the next available rep will be along? I was waiting 2/3 days before I gave up, months ago, 5 minutes two weeks ago!


----------



## SlurrySlump

Slim said:


> Does it even say that the next available rep will be along?


 This is the problem, it doesn't say anything at all. You type your question and then......nothing.

I waited an hour. Then a message appears on the screen from an agent.

Here is an update.   The Ryanair website states that all April refunds will be processes by the 18th July. It is now past that date so I decide to contact them. We are told not to do this as we are taking up valuable time. I contacted them because I thought that they had lost my refund claim.

The agent then tells me that my refund will be processed by 31st July. Maybe they should tell us this and update their website.

It doesn't help that Ryanair are telling us that they are doing their refunds in order.......but they are not.   Some people with flights in May are being refunded while some April flight refunds are still outstanding.


----------



## Danny14

SlurrySlump said:


> I had flights with Ryanair for mid April. Still no refund. Has anyone got refunds for mid April flights yet?


I got refund on 18th June for my cancelled Ryan Air Flight - Flight was 11 th April returning on 18th April. I am waiting on further refund for a July Flight which was cancelled on May 20....when on helpline there was a standard message say it may take a further 3 weeks (therefore not been paid by end of July deadline on there web page..... I am also unsure if the April / May timeframe on website relates to travel dates or does it mean when flight was cancelled.....Ryan Air seem to be faster than Aerlingus


----------



## Slim

Further email from Ryanair that the second refund has now been processed and will be in account within 5-7 days. We shall see.


----------



## Slim

Update: Second and final fare credited to cc account on 1st August. Case now closed. In fairness, if I had got through to the chat bot in March or April, this would probably have been sorted a lot earlier.


----------



## STEINER

Email received today about my refund request for a cancelled August flight. They are trying to change my mind and offer a voucher instead of a refund. It’s very open ended as to when I will get the refund but I prefer the refund. “Customers who choose not to accept a voucher will receive their refund in due course once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.”
Separately, Aer Lingus changed another flight from morning departure to evening departure a few days after I had requested a voucher. Had I not requested a voucher I could presumably have requested a refund instead. I don’t like companies holding on to my money.


----------



## Slim

STEINER said:


> Email received today about my refund request for a cancelled August flight. They are trying to change my mind and offer a voucher instead of a refund. It’s very open ended as to when I will get the refund but I prefer the refund. “Customers who choose not to accept a voucher will receive their refund in due course once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.”


You now need to click on the link in the email to get through to a chat bot and eventually a human rep to confirm your wish to receive refund.  Otherwise, you will be in the never-ending queue.


----------



## STEINER

Slim said:


> You now need to click on the link in the email to get through to a chat bot and eventually a human rep......


Thanks, I engaged with the bot and am now in the 6 week refund queue.


----------



## almostthere

I paid for Ryanair flights, half by gift voucher and half by visa payment. We were due to fly last April.

I have now received the following.

*"I acknowledge receipt of your recent refund request.

We confirm that your refund request has been processed. As your booking reference was paid with a gift voucher, this voucher is now available to be redeemed again."*

Can they do this?  I am looking for a full cash refund.  Also I do not know how long the replacement gift voucher will last for.

Considering that only part of the booking was paid for by a gift voucher, can they insist that I take a voucher for the full amount?


----------



## Laramie

almostthere said:


> I paid for Ryanair flights, half by gift voucher and half by visa payment



When you used the gift card to purchase flights I would have thought that the gift card was "used" and deemed to be spent?

If Ryanair accepted the gift card as payment and then cancelled their own flights I don't see how they can expect you to accept a replacement gift card, either for the full amount or even for a portion of the amount.


----------



## almostthere

Laramie said:


> When you used the gift card to purchase flights I would have thought that the gift card was "used" and deemed to be spent?



I purchased my flights using the gift card back in October 2019 for flights in April 2020. *I spent the money on the gift card.*

The expiry date on my gift card was June 2020. 

Ryanair cancelled my flights back in April. I understand that by law they are required to refund me within a week?  They didn't.

My expectations were that I would get a cash refund.  

I am now being told in August 2020, ten months after I spent the money on the gift card and four months after my flight did not fly due to Ryanair cancelling the flight, that my gift card can be redeemed again. Even though the gift card expired in June 2020, two months ago and is now out of date.

Their email said that "this voucher is now available to be redeemed again." However it expired in June 2020. How can I redeem an expired gift card and under what terms and conditions?

Anyone in a similar situation?


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## Leo

almostthere said:


> Can they do this? I am looking for a full cash refund. Also I do not know how long the replacement gift voucher will last for.



Yes, they can. Pretty much every company will refund a gift card payment with another gift card/ credit note. Gift cards and vouchers are not cash, different rules apply. 

As you paid in a mix of voucher and cash, ideally they'd refund you in the same mix if their systems allow.


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## Gervan

I have received an email from Ryanair re my flight of April 7th, which, I was informed by email on 21st March, was cancelled . I was hoping this was the "within x working days you will receive your refund".

Since 21st March I have run the circle of applying for refund, getting email with voucher, holding on for call centre to reject voucher and insist on refund, another determined but fruitless contact with call centre 6 weeks ago, and have today at last received.... another email with a voucher, inviting me to start the merry-go-round again. 

By the way, there doesn't seem to be an emoticon for breaking down in tears, which is the most appropriate for how I'm feeling now.


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## joer

That is very frustrating for you and is bloody ridicules . We got our refunds for our  early April flight almost immediately after they were cancelled.


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## di74

I was to travel on 18th July, flights cancelled early June, received my refund yesterday.


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## almostthere

Leo said:


> Yes, they can. Pretty much every company will refund a gift card payment with another gift card/ credit note. Gift cards and vouchers are not cash, different rules apply.
> 
> As you paid in a mix of voucher and cash, ideally they'd refund you in the same mix if their systems allow.


Well after telling me that I was in line for a cash refund last April they are now telling me, five months later that I am to get a voucher.  (seeing as they had someone dealing with my claim this week, they could easily have dealt with it and ended the matter by refunding me the cash, this would have freed up that team member to process the next customer. Instead they just kick the can down the road, doubling up the work that *they* have to do.)

They are telling me that I am to get a voucher for the full amount even though half of the cost of my flight was paid using a gift card and half using my credit card.

I have rejected the offer of a voucher so now I am back in the queue for a cash refund. They will decide when I get this.

I should have been refunded within a week of Ryanair cancelling my flight.

Every day there are dozens of posts on Ryanair's Facebook page about refunds, 90% negative.


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## joer

It might be better perhaps to accept the voucher , it probably will be processed quickly for you. The fact that this was a partial cash / gift card payment could be the reason for the confusion or delay. 
I had a flight cancelled for May and accepted a voucher in April but who knows when that will be used...


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## time to plan

I've received refunds for both my outstanding flights in the last week. I got an email from Ryanair confirming this for one but not for the other.


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## joer

Does anyone know what is the time limit on vouchers , seen as we won't be flying for some time yet.


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## Slim

joer said:


> Does anyone know what is the time limit on vouchers , seen as we won't be flying for some time yet.


It said 12 months on my voucher email.


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## joer

Thanks Slim , no need to panic just yet then.


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## New2This

joer said:


> Thanks Slim , no need to panic just yet then.


No need to panic about that at all, they have stated that any unused credit on these vouchers after the 12 months will be refunded in cash. Now how long that will take and whether they will stick to their word and not change their minds again, who knows??

The thing I would be worried about in accepting vouchers is whether the airline will still be around. I do think, just my opinion with no particular inside knowledge, that Ryanair are one the ones that will be around.


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## Brendan Burgess

So I had three cancelled flights and finally got around to doing something about it this morning.

The first one - no problem in that I filled in the form and refused the voucher and am told I will get cash. 

The second and third "encountered a problem" 

I got onto live chat at 8.36  and now at 9.22 , I have eventually got their agreement to pay me cash and they say that the wait time is 3 weeks. 

Surely they should be able to refund people automatically for cancelled flights?  

I was ok, in that I was able to do other stuff while I was waiting for them.  But normally I would not spend 46 minutes to get a refund of about €65.  A lot of people just won't bother as they value their time and mental health at more than this.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

Coincidentally, I spoke to someone just now who had a flight booked to Slovakia early in the pandemic. 

Slovakia was the first country to close its borders and have flights cancelled.

He went online and got his full refund within a week.

So Ryanair could have refunded people had the wished to do so.

Brendan


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## joer

Some people have been lucky to receive refunds quickly. I had my refund for my first cancelled flight within one week. The next one , after spending almost an hour on the phone , got the agreement for refund but this took about four weeks. 
I see that they are offering flights for 5 euro at the moment , with free cancellation, I wonder what the take up on this will be ?


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## MrEarl

A fiver for a flight ticket seems a bargain, so will help sell flights that otherwise, probably won't sell... 

If the passenger subsequently decides not to fly, how likely are they to look for a refund? 

Looks like a shrewd enough move by Ryanair, at this juncture.


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## joer

it looks good alright but how many people will look for refunds for 5 euro. I can see many vouchers been accepted though. Although would anyone even bother for the sake of 5 euro....


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## almostthere

Leo said:


> Yes, they can. Pretty much every company will refund a gift card payment with another gift card/ credit note. Gift cards and vouchers are not cash, different rules apply.
> 
> As you paid in a mix of voucher and cash, ideally they'd refund you in the same mix if their systems allow.



OK. Here is an update.   I received the cash portion of my flights costs recredited to my Visa card. (9 months after booking, on September 1st). I received nothing for the gift card portion of payment.
I spent 4 hours today communicating on their chat line. Two of the agents disconnected half way through the conversation. I felt they did this because they did not know what to do. 
A third agent said that in the next few days I would receive an email about the refund for the gift card portion. The voucher would have a 1 year life.

I have a question. I assume that I am getting another gift card to replace the old gift card. Last December the law was changed to make gift cards have a shelf life of 5 years. Surely my replacement gift card should also have a shelf life of 5 years and not 1 year?







						Gift vouchers - CCPC
					

Your rights when using and buying gift vouchers




					www.ccpc.ie


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## Leo

almostthere said:


> Surely my replacement gift card should also have a shelf life of 5 years and not 1 year?



If they're wording it as a gift card rather than a credit note, I would have thought so alright based on date of issue.


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## almostthere

Leo said:


> If they're wording it as a gift card rather than a credit note, I would have thought so alright based on date of issue.


The words that they are using are They will issue the refund as per "Payment Method".   Which was a gift card.


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## almostthere

almostthere said:


> The words that they are using are They will issue the refund as per "Payment Method". Which was a gift card.



Further update.  They have issued me with a new gift card yesterday (old one was used and had expired in June 2020) but with an end date of next January.

This is despite the fact that since December 2019 gift cards must have an expiry date of at least 5 years.





__





						Gift vouchers
					

Find out about your rights when you buy a gift voucher.




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				




I have requested that they extend the expiry date to 5 years.  

If they refuse this....who do I complain to?  I have never found the CCPC any use............they just refer you on to someone else.  So if I can cut them out and go straight to the next level it would help a lot.


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## Leo

almostthere said:


> I have requested that they extend the expiry date to 5 years.
> 
> If they refuse this....who do I complain to? I have never found the CCPC any use....



Afraid not, I read the act and it excluded vouchers issued as a refund.

I'd imagine the CCPC have limited resources, investigating individual complaints is not their role.


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## almostthere

Leo said:


> Afraid not, I read the act and it excluded vouchers issued as a refund.



I didn't purchase goods I purchased a service. Does this make a difference?

I didn't return anything or cancel anything. Ryanair accepted my voucher in payment for their service. They then cancelled the service, nearly 4 months later. 
They were required to refund me within a week of the cancellation of my flight but didn't. They refunded me 6 months later and 3 months after the expiry date of the original gift voucher.

They appear to have arbitrarily chosen a date (next January) for the expiry of their new replacement gift card voucher.



*Exceptions to the new rules*
The new rules do not apply to:

Vouchers that you can only use to buy specified goods and services at a discounted price, from a specified trader on a specified date, or for a specified period of 3 months or less. For example, vouchers from deal websites such as Groupon or Pigsback.
Vouchers issued as part of a customer loyalty or promotion scheme.
Vouchers issued as a refund for goods you returned to a trader.
Vouchers and gift cards sold before 2 December 2019. The expiry period and the terms and conditions that applied at the time of purchase apply to these vouchers.


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## Leo

almostthere said:


> I didn't purchase goods I purchased a service. Does this make a difference?



Good question actually! Most other parts of the act call out 'goods or services'.


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## iamaspinner

Sorry if I missed this but it is difficult to follow with the posts being dispersed among different pages:

When was the original gift card purchased?
When did the gift card expire?
When was the gift card used for the flights?
When was the flight that was cancelled?


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## Introuble83

flights booked for March and cancelled have requested refunds and refused vouchers . A new email a few days ago saying don’t forget about your voucher. Tried rejecting the voucher again but this time it’s not acknowledging the reference number saying it does not match the original number . Tried calling a few times no joy .  Anyone any ideas ? 6 months now waiting for a refund


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## Slim

Introuble83 said:


> flights booked for March and cancelled have requested refunds and refused vouchers . A new email a few days ago saying don’t forget about your voucher. Tried rejecting the voucher again but this time it’s not acknowledging the reference number saying it does not match the original number . Tried calling a few times no joy .  Anyone any ideas ? 6 months now waiting for a refund


You need to get on the chat and wait for a human customer service rep. It may be a long wait but they can sort it out.


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## Eeyore

Hi Introuble83,
I had flights booked in June and I originally requested a refund on 17 May when the flights were cancelled. I heard nothing more from Ryanair and on 2 Sep after hunting around on the website I found a link to this page https://onlineform.ryanair.com/ie/en/cash-refund and entered my email address and booking reference. I got the following message back indicating that I was now in a queue for a cash refund in lieu of a voucher which I had never requested.






The full amount was refunded to my credit card two weeks later.


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## tiarnalamh

Success, thanks to Eeyore.   Thank you Eeyore.   I had flights booked in May and I originally requested a refund on 27th April via the email they sent me, (when the flights were cancelled), which included a link to apply for a full refund (outward journey to Reus).  I did the same for a second booking two weeks later (return journey home from Barcelona).   The only email I got afterwards were emails offering vouchers which I ignored.  I waited patiently since. 
Then Sunday night 20th Sep. after reading your post, I went to the link you kindly gave on your post and applied again for a full refund. Like you, I got the  message back indicating that I was now in a queue for a cash refund in lieu of a voucher, which I had never requested.
But to my delight, I got an email on Monday for the Reus flight saying I would be refunded the full amount to my credit card and indeed it arrived in my bank yesterday Wed.
Even though I applied for the Barcelona flight within minutes of the other one, I only got the confirmation email today, Thurs., confirming they would refund me the full cost, so I do expect I'll get that in a few days.
I want to thank you very much Eeyore for your help, or I could  be waiting forever.
I  also want to flag for others that I got one confirmation email one day after applying, but it took 4 days to get the other Barcelona flight email, so don't despair if email takes a few days.


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## almostthere

Those of you that opted to take the Voucher rather than cash from Ryanair.......was there an end date on which the voucher must be used by?


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## Gervan

almostthere said:


> was there an end date on which the voucher must be used by?


My voucher is valid for 12 months from the date of email containing it. Also: If you accept your voucher and do not use it before the expiry date you will receive a full cash refund. 
Though if it entails going through all the hassle again next year, maybe I'd better ask for the cash now.


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## Gervan

Ryanair cancelled my flight on 21st March. I immediately applied for a refund, and had an email to say I would receive the money within 7 working days. I've lost count now, of how many times I have applied again, for that same refund. At least twice since my comment above. Persistence has paid off, and I have now actually received the refund. 

Do I hold the record, at 8 months, or are there still hopeful would-have-been-passengers out there waiting for refunds?


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## joer

You have a very good case to be top of this table alright..


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