# Grant Thornton "1 in 7 aplicants suitable for Personal Insolvency"



## ClaireM (30 Sep 2013)

I heard on the radio this morning that Grant Thornton have said that only 1 in 7 of those who have approached them are suitable for a personal insolvency. I assume this includes DSAs and PIAs. The half need bankruptcy.

Will this be typical or are the most distressed cases going to PIPs first? Do we need low cost bankruptcy? I think the cots in the UK are much lower than here.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...oo-little-for-personal-insolvency-608548.html


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Sep 2013)

Hi Claire

I didn't hear the radio interview. 

Are you sure that he said that the rest need bankruptcy? 

I got the impression that most of those who have spoken to Grant Thornton are being told, correctly, that they should go back and do a deal with their lender directly.

PIAs are really only suitable for people with multiple loans on multiple properties from multiple lenders  and not for people who are in negative equity on a family home, for which a split mortgage may well be the most the bank will agree to offer.

Brendan


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## RichInSpirit (30 Sep 2013)

There was an article on yesterday's Sunday business post about the same topic.


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## ClaireM (30 Sep 2013)

Brendan, Grant Thornton said half of cases needed bankruptcy as income was below the RLEs.  Reading the SBP article or PIPs put it at 70% with income below RLEs.


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## Bronte (30 Sep 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> PIAs are really only suitable for people with multiple loans


 
With the caveat, people with multiple loans who can afford to go the PIA route.  My understanding of the problem is that people do not have the money to pay a PIP or to pay any creditors any reasonable amount.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Sep 2013)

Hi Bronte

Sorry, I didn't express that well, so I have now edited it as follows: 



> PIAs are really only suitable for people with multiple loans on multiple properties from multiple lenders



So they stop paying their mortgages for a month or two to get the initial fee of around €2,000 together. 

If people do not have the income to pay for a PIA , whether that is salary or rental income, it's unlikley that a PIA will be suited to them anyway.  It will be something similar for DSAs.


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## Bronte (30 Sep 2013)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So they stop paying their mortgages for a month or two to get the initial fee of around €2,000 together.


 

That's clever I like that.  No doubt all the Pip's reading this on here will be giving their clients that advice from now on.  Maybe the figure of 1 in 7 can increase.


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## Gerry Canning (30 Sep 2013)

What was said I think is that 42% could not avail of pia/dsn.
Seems very high % .

Could it be that far too many people are ACTUALLY that far down?
Could it be that far too many people have unrealistic , unsustainable negative equity type mortgages that will never be repaid?
Could it be that most of the 42% should bite the bullet of bankruptcy?

I hope the 1 in 7 turns out to be wrong.
Otherwise the {gloom} continues!


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## Steve Thatcher (30 Sep 2013)

I said here ages ago, look it up, that the cost of doing a PIA or a DSA would be akin to the UK, being £5k.
I said I was looking to set up in Ireland to do it. But as I am not Irish based or qualified i could not be a PIP.
I would look to charge €3000 for the PIA/DSA. There is so much work here that to not do that would be commercial suicide.
It is fantasy to think professionals would do this for  nothing and I said so, perhaps to complaints. 
You want someone to get you out of a mess, it costs. You choose how much you are prepared to pay or can afford.
As I predicted, for many the better, cheaper, but not cheap option is to move to the UK and go bankrupt.
It is not cheap easy or for everyone, but it may sure as hell be better than what you are currently faced with.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Bronte (1 Oct 2013)

Steve Thatcher said:


> I said here ages ago, look it up, that the cost of doing a PIA or a DSA would be akin to the UK, being £5k.


 
I presume though Steve that in the UK you don't have to hire a professional such as yourself and can do a DIY on it. Especially if you've basically no money?  Obviously there would be some legal costs but they are probably of a relatively minor nature.


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## Kine (1 Oct 2013)

Certain lenders are refusing to do IVAs etc and are on the "forcing you to go bankrupt / judgement route". 

The whole process / system is screwed in my experience. All people seem to be doing is racking up legal / advisory costs and still getting the same answers from lenders. Only now they are a few grand poorer!

The joys!


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## wmpdd3 (1 Oct 2013)

The conditions attached to a DNR are so black and white, if one condition is not met then a DRN is out of the question. 

this is before the application even reaches the creditors. 

It would just be easier to just not pay anyone and let the bank take you to court for unsecured loans.


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## Steve Thatcher (2 Oct 2013)

Bronte said:


> I presume though Steve that in the UK you don't have to hire a professional such as yourself and can do a DIY on it. Especially if you've basically no money?  Obviously there would be some legal costs but they are probably of a relatively minor nature.



In the UK anyone can take themselves thru the process for just the cost of the petition, which is £700.
A mote of caution tho. yesterday I got a chap thru who had tried it himself and got himself in a right mess. yesterday's hearing was his third (my first). I got him thru, but the judge criticised him for the complete lack of evidence as to his comi, spending abroad during his comi set up etc.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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