# consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by the



## liaconn (27 Mar 2009)

I had an appointment with a consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by the receptionist before I even met the consultant. Is this normal? Could you imagine if the hairdresser or restaurant asked you to pay up before you'd even received the service you were there for?


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## Purple (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

Yes, it is normal. 
You should be asking if it is right that it happens (and so much is charged).


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## liaconn (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

It definitely isn't right. It comes across as greedy, grabby and aggressive. Surely they realise that people about to meet with the consultant are often feeling nervous, edgy and a bit vulnerable. I was really taken aback. In fairness, the receptionist seemed a bit embarassed herself, so I presume its the clinic managers who insist on this insensitive procedure.


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## Purple (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

It's the Consultants who insist.
They have shown over the last few years that their moans about lack of funding for the health service are just so much BS since they refuse to get out of bed for less than €250k a year basic (with a multiple of that on top).


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## gipimann (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

I wonder if the patient is asked to pay before consultation because of the tests/procedures which may be carried out during the consultation (e.g. some form of anaesthetic)?

I had laser eye surgery last year, and had to pay before the procedure was carried out (because I wouldn't be able to see the keys on the credit card PIN machine immediately afterwards !).


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## Sue Ellen (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

'No shows' probably have a lot to do with it also.


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## sidzer (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

How anyone can justify this extortionate rate is beyond me - especially when the reason why you have to go private in the first place is mainly to do with the way they have hijacked the public hospital system. The tax payer pays for their expensive education and in return we are charged about double the rates in many comparable countries...

PS I been to consultants and in both cases in was an in an out in about 10 mins - same issues two different stories one price - rip off!

Dont give me this BS off all the year it took to train - they were very well paid during those years -


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## Complainer (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

Why not put your concerns in writing to the consultant himself now.


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## Brianne (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



Complainer said:


> Why not put your concerns in writing to the consultant himself now.



I'm sure the OP could do that if only to maybe feel better. However that's the only satisfaction that they will get. People erroneously think that medical practicioners are the caring profession. In my opinion most of them have the hard necks that one would associate with the worst of capitalism.
And remember that the primary prerequisite for being a consultant is ruthlessness, yes I'm sorry if I sound cynical but yes, in this country they are a pampered cartel who overrate their importance to society.
In the boom , millions should have been spent to fund lots of extra places in the med schools and vastly increase supply and in time their prices would have had to come down. Instead we have a ludicrous situation where their very expensive education is funded by the taxpayer and no pay back is received( in this they are not alone). Instead their unions demand fees that are extortionate. 
Yes there was a time when doctors were different and no doube there are many hard working and caring individuals within the group but as a profession they embody the worst excesses of the closed shop.


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## micmclo (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



Brianne said:


> Instead we have a ludicrous situation where their very expensive education is funded by the taxpayer and no pay back is received( in this they are not alone).



I've read on another thread, possibly a solicitor related thread that there was a legal case in the 1970's which limits the number of medical places available in Ireland.
So yes, it's a bit of a closed shop and also why you find many foreign doctors in Irish hospitals. 
I see the taxi drivers are looking for a cap, they should learn from the experts in protectism, the doctors 
I'm sure a legal eagle like Bond 007 will be along with a reference, I don't know it at the minute



Brianne said:


> Yes there was a time when doctors were different and no doube there are many hard working and caring individuals within the group but as a profession they embody the worst excesses of the closed shop.



A time when they were different? Every hear of the mother & child scheme from the 1950's? The doctors weren't the only ones responsible for sinking this but there own self-interest was evident back then and it is now.
I don't see that anything has changed though maybe you have examples.

I too agree there are many hardworking doctors and it's a pity that are abused with 36 hours shifts as junior doctors



liaconn said:


> I had an appointment with a consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by the receptionist before I even met the consultant. Is this normal? Could you imagine if the hairdresser or restaurant asked you to pay up before you'd even received the service you were there for?



Most likely it's to do with no shows.
As regards cost, when many people spend 50 euro on a haircut, 200 euro might be the best money you ever spend if they identify something


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## becky (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

*I've read on another thread, possibly a solicitor related thread that there was a legal case in the 1970's which limits the number of medical places available in Ireland.*

*So yes, it's a bit of a closed shop and also why you find many foreign doctors in Irish hospitals. *

I would be interested in that thread.  There is limits on the number of juniors a consultant can 'train' so in turn this would I suppose limit the training places.  The way I see it is univeristies need the non EEA for the full fees they pay.   Most of these go back to where they came fro so we are losing the skills.  The non EEA you see in the hospitals were not trained here and imo its shows.

*I too agree there are many hardworking doctors and it's a pity that are abused with 36 hours shifts as junior doctors.*

Maybe - I donno.  They are going 13 rounds to hold onto the benefits associated with OT, allowances - €80K pa at the age of 28 is good money. They are also on a career path which has a good chance of getting them €250k at the age of 38 or 39.

*As regards cost, when many people spend 50 euro on a haircut, 200 euro might be the best money you ever spend if they identify something.*
Agree 100%.  I have spent €200 on a hairdcut but I paid afterwards.


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## Purple (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

People who work in the medical industry are just as likely to be greedy or selfish and any plumber, builder, lawyer, teachers, banker etc.
People are people and their moral character is not determined by the job they do.
The idea that someone is more honest, selfless or honourable because they wear a white coat or a white wig instead of a pair of snickers work trousers is ridiculous.


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## Yachtie (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



becky said:


> The non EEA you see in the hospitals were not trained here and imo its shows.


 
Are you implying that non-EEA national doctors' skills and knowledge are inferior to those of Irish doctors???  

I am a non-EEA national and there people train for 10 years (4 in secondary medical school and 6 in university) before they can apply for internship. Then they spend few more years in specialist training.

So far, I have been dragged from one Irish consultant to another at anywhere between €150 and €200 a pop, all to be told 'it will pass' and be given yet another prescription. None of them even identified the problem correctly! The only one who really helped me by correctly identifying the problem and booking me in for a minor procedure was a junior doctor, of African descend.


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## z103 (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*

Maybe the answer to this is to hop on a cheap flight to some other country for medical care.

I seem to be spending less and less money in Ireland. It's got to the stage where the first place I look for stuff is online, no matter what it is.


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## smiley (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



leghorn said:


> Maybe the answer to this is to hop on a cheap flight to some other country for medical care.
> 
> I seem to be spending less and less money in Ireland. It's got to the stage where the first place I look for stuff is online, no matter what it is.



leghorn, now youve hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what a lot of people are already doing myself included. A good friend of mine had to get some work done on her teeth. She was passed from doctor to denstist to specialist and each one charged her a fortune along the path until she felt she was being ripped off.

She decided in the end sod this and attended a top notch dentist/orthodontist in spain.
She saved an absolute fortune, had a few days in the sun and was treated like royalty by the doctors. When she got home they even rang her twice to see how she was.
Now thats what i call service.


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## becky (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



Yachtie said:


> Are you implying that non-EEA national doctors' skills and knowledge are inferior to those of Irish doctors???
> 
> I am a non-EEA national and there people train for 10 years (4 in secondary medical school and 6 in university) before they can apply for internship. Then they spend few more years in specialist training.
> 
> So far, I have been dragged from one Irish consultant to another at anywhere between €150 and €200 a pop, all to be told 'it will pass' and be given yet another prescription. None of them even identified the problem correctly! The only one who really helped me by correctly identifying the problem and booking me in for a minor procedure was a junior doctor, of African descend.


 
I suppose I am but of course I accept there are exceptions depending on the training in the country in question. 

I'd prefer to see the doctors trained here staying here and in turn more medical places for irish students. We taxpayers are paying for this training to leave the country.

A few years ago my dad went through 3 consultants over 2 years before he was finally diagnosed with kidney stones. The doc who referred him to the surgeon said he could rule out a lot of things based on the previous treatments. It was very frustrating at the time alright.


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## Diziet (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



becky said:


> I'd prefer to see the doctors trained here staying here and in turn more medical places for irish students. We taxpayers are paying for this training to leave the country.



Check your facts. The reality is quite the opposite - foreign med students pay the full cost of their training; in fact, the overseas students are generating a healthy income for the medical schools. The allocation of places is an economic choice.

So don't worry, your tax euros are safe from all these foreign trainee doctors. Not that safe from the Irish government though!


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## becky (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



Diziet said:


> Check your facts. The reality is quite the opposite - foreign med students pay the full cost of their training; in fact, the overseas students are generating a healthy income for the medical schools. The allocation of places is an economic choice.
> 
> So don't worry, your tax euros are safe from all these foreign trainee doctors. Not that safe from the Irish government though!


 
I know this.  I did say the universites needed these students for the full fees in an earlier post.  Yes its generates income for the uni but not all that is needed. When they become an intern and SHO the HSE pays them well.

So once they are trained they return to their own country taking the skills the tax payer paid for (okay in part) with them.  I don't have a problem with non EEA doctors at all but as I said most I would prefer the skills they learned benefited the irish not help fund the universities because they need the funds.


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## Yachtie (29 Mar 2009)

*Re: Consultant fees*



becky said:


> I know this. I did say the universites needed these students for the full fees in an earlier post. Yes its generates income for the uni but not all that is needed. When they become an intern and SHO the HSE pays them well.
> 
> So once they are trained they return to their own country taking the skills the tax payer paid for (okay in part) with them. I don't have a problem with non EEA doctors at all but as I said most I would prefer the skills they learned benefited the irish not help fund the universities because they need the funds.


 
A lot of foreign doctors and nurses trained in their own country and work here now. How are you going to compensate their country's tax payers as they have funded (fully or partly) those people's education? 

The way you'd prefer things to work is a bit Stalinist and can not work in the free world we live in.  Personally I am a lot happier that my tax goes to anyone's education regardless of where they take it than to so many pointless things the government spends obscene amounts of money on.


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## Swallows (29 Mar 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*

Talking of foreign doctors and nurses. The last time I had to see a consultant I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. I know it's not very *PC* to say this but I could not understand his accent, and despite the fact that he was a very nice man and I asked him to repeat things, I left not knowing what I was supposed to do with the bits of paper he filled in and gave me. I know there was to be some sort of follow up to the visit but I am still baffled by that consultation.

Personally, I dont mind who I see or where they come from but I have to be able to understand what they are saying.


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## sandrat (29 Mar 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*

When I was pregnant I paid 2000 euro for my consultant and that was paid in agreed installments. I had the choice of 2 irish doctors or one foreign one and chose the foreign one because he was the best.


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## Ham Slicer (30 Mar 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*



liaconn said:


> I had an appointment with a consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by the receptionist before I even met the consultant. Is this normal?



Not sure if it's normal but a consultant told me 2 yrs ago that she was down about 10k a year from people not paying for their consultations.  Left the wallet at home was the excuse most of the time.  Regardless of what they earn 10K is 10K.

Maybe she gets clients to pay up front now.


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## liaconn (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*

I can accept that private clinics are fed up of invoicing people who don't bother to pay. However, I felt they could have waited until I was on my way out to ask for the money. My GP or dentist's surgery have never asked me to pay on arrival, before I've even seen the doctor or had my filling.


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## csirl (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*

Regardless of certain third level institutes desire to earn money from non-EU students, I cant understand how foreign medical students get immigration permits to undertake the courses?

I thought that immigration permits relating to work/professions are only given out where there is a shortage in the EU? There is no shortage of Irish and EU students who have the requirements and who are applying to do medicine in Irish universities. Surely non-EU applicants should not be given permits to study here unless there are more places that Irish/EU applicants? With the dire shortage of doctors in this country it makes no sense for the majority of the places in our medical courses to go to non-EU students?

What is even more scandalous is the recent case that went to court where an Irish applicant who had superiour qualifications than the majority on non-EU applicants was denied a place on a medicine course even though he was willing to pay the non-EU rate of fees.


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## Diziet (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*



csirl said:


> Regardless of certain third level institutes desire to earn money from non-EU students, I cant understand how foreign medical students get immigration permits to undertake the courses?
> 
> I thought that immigration permits relating to work/professions are only given out where there is a shortage in the EU? There is no shortage of Irish and EU students who have the requirements and who are applying to do medicine in Irish universities. Surely non-EU applicants should not be given permits to study here unless there are more places that Irish/EU applicants? With the dire shortage of doctors in this country it makes no sense for the majority of the places in our medical courses to go to non-EU students?
> 
> What is even more scandalous is the recent case that went to court where an Irish applicant who had superiour qualifications than the majority on non-EU applicants was denied a place on a medicine course even though he was willing to pay the non-EU rate of fees.



You are approaching this from the wrong direction. You are assuming that there are so many places, they should be given to Irish students first, then non EU students. This is not what happens. The places available for Irish students are fixed, and the non-EU places are independent of the Irish places. The non-EU places are real moneyspinner. And of course, student visas are different to working visas. The non-EU students are doing our universities a favour, not the other way round.

The shortage of doctors is a manufactured position, and the blame does not lie with the foreign students. You might look at the doctors' cartel (ummmm association) for the reasons. Consultants here have it sewn up, and are absurdly well paid in comparison to other European countries.


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## liaconn (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*



csirl said:


> Regardless of certain third level institutes desire to earn money from non-EU students, I cant understand how foreign medical students get immigration permits to undertake the courses?
> 
> I thought that immigration permits relating to work/professions are only given out where there is a shortage in the EU? There is no shortage of Irish and EU students who have the requirements and who are applying to do medicine in Irish universities. Surely non-EU applicants should not be given permits to study here unless there are more places that Irish/EU applicants? With the dire shortage of doctors in this country it makes no sense for the majority of the places in our medical courses to go to non-EU students?
> /quote]
> ...


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## Purple (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: consultant in St James' private clinic yesterday. I was asked for the €200 fee by*



Diziet said:


> The shortage of doctors is a manufactured position, and the blame does not lie with the foreign students. You might look at the doctors' cartel (ummmm association) for the reasons. Consultants here have it sewn up, and are absurdly well paid in comparison to other European countries.


 Spot on.


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