# Doctor's visit on the clock!



## lab-rat (16 May 2006)

Hi There,
I went to a doctor recently in Lucan. There was a notice posted up in the waiting room stating that each visit should last for a maximum of 15 minutes, if a consultation runs over 15 mins an additional charge will be added. It also stated that patients should not visit the doctor with multiple complaints.

50 euro I paid for approx 10 minutes. I could not believe it.
Is it just me or is this out of order.


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## DrMoriarty (16 May 2006)

If the charges are clearly advertised, then I don't see what else you can do except take your 'custom' elsewhere. FWIW, our family GP charges a flat €45 and doesn't charge for follow-up visits in respect of the same ailment (within reason) — but maybe that's more generous/principled than the norm?


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## TarfHead (16 May 2006)

A friend of the wife brought her kid to the doctor for a free booster. While in the surgery she asked about another matter - just looking for information. The doctor refused to answer saying she should arrange a seperate visit for such matters.


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## askalot (16 May 2006)

lab-rat said:
			
		

> Hi There,
> I went to a doctor recently in Lucan. There was a notice posted up in the waiting room stating that each visit should last for a maximum of 15 minutes, if a consultation runs over 15 mins an additional charge will be added. It also stated that patients should not visit the doctor with multiple complaints.
> 
> 50 euro I paid for approx 10 minutes. I could not believe it.
> Is it just me or is this out of order.


 
These are the same GPs that the government hope will help cut the crowding in A&E. I feel another stealth tax coming on!

And yes you are right; it is way out of order.


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## comanche (16 May 2006)

lab-rat said:
			
		

> Hi There,
> I went to a doctor recently in Lucan. There was a notice posted up in the waiting room stating that each visit should last for a maximum of 15 minutes, if a consultation runs over 15 mins an additional charge will be added. It also stated that patients should not visit the doctor with multiple complaints.
> 
> 50 euro I paid for approx 10 minutes. I could not believe it.
> Is it just me or is this out of order.


 
there seems to be two kinds of doctors around. those who are interested in patient care and those who are interested in treating as many people as quickly as possible to line the pockets.

I feel that there is alot of sharp practise going on in the industry. I would advise you to try and find a GP who in interested in patient care - word of mouth is normally the best route for this.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 May 2006)

Lab rat - I am confused by your post.

€50 for a medical consultation seems about right. Was that the rate quoted on the notice in the waiting room? If it was and if you were there for less than 15 minutes, then it's not out of order.

The "multiple complaints" notice is odd. I would have thought that people with  minor ailments which don't justify a visit to the doctor would ask about these if they were visiting for something more serious.

Brendan


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## onekeano (16 May 2006)

TarfHead said:
			
		

> A friend of the wife brought her kid to the doctor for a free booster. While in the surgery she asked about another matter - just looking for information. The doctor refused to answer saying she should arrange a seperate visit for such matters.




So much for their oath!!

Roy


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## tiger (16 May 2006)

onekeano said:
			
		

> So much for their oath!!
> 
> Roy



My thoughts also; more than just out of order, possibly unethical.


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## sun_sparks (16 May 2006)

I must say that given that doctors are supposed to be interested in primary and secondary prevention of such ailments as overactive bladder and COPD, it's hard to see how they can refuse to answer any other questions? I do think it's a cheek to ask people to pay extra for that as well. However, perhaps you'd be better asking them for a general check-up when you call and say that you've got a couple of things to discuss - that would prevent that.

As a declaration of interest: I work as an editor in a medical publication. (And I promise not to go down the publishing this story route!!!! At least, not without contacting ppl for information first!!!!!!!  )


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## wavelength (16 May 2006)

About 40- 50 euro is about the norm for a consultation which is expensive and makes it understandalbe that people would visit with multiple complaints. I agree with Brendans comments that people visiting with minor ailments which don't justify a visit to the doctor would ask about these if they were visiting for something more serious.
I actually thought a doctor would prefer this as Ive heard about doctors complaining about people wasting their time with minor ailments which I think is terrible as it may put people who have genuine compalints off visiting.


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## sun_sparks (16 May 2006)

Plus sometimes people use minor ailments as a lead up to discussing a more serious issue. GPs should know this.


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## gearoid (17 May 2006)

TarfHead said:
			
		

> A friend of the wife brought her kid to the doctor for a free booster. While in the surgery she asked about another matter - just looking for information. The doctor refused to answer saying she should arrange a seperate visit for such matters.



It looks like doctors are now following the Hypocritic oath, not the Hipocratic oath. Surely this merits a "Prime Time Investigates". I also notice a 10 euro charge in my surgery for doctor's notes over and above the 50 eu per visit. Instead of challenging my doctor and leaving I have just not bothered paying on grounds of it being a rip-off.


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## Sue Ellen (17 May 2006)

I'd like to see the VHI's reaction if one needed to use up 30 minutes and possibly incurred €100 charge. Will they entertain this only as a [broken link removed] if someone includes it in their yearly claim.


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## Cahir (17 May 2006)

The last time I was at the doctors to get a prescription renewed I asked about another small thing.  I was in the surgery for a total of 10 mins and the visit cost €65 instead of the usual €55.


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## lab-rat (18 May 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> Lab rat - I am confused by your post.
> 
> €50 for a medical consultation seems about right. Was that the rate quoted on the notice in the waiting room? If it was and if you were there for less than 15 minutes, then it's not out of order.
> 
> ...


Brendan[/quote]
Hi Brendan,
I do not have a problem paying the doctor’s fee but I feel that they should not put such a strict time limit on each visit. Some people may need to feel comfortable before they can open up and talk about personal problems, whether it is a mental health issue or a physical aliment. I felt like I was on a conveyor belt, and felt very rushed. There should be a more flexible attitude towards consultation times. Of course some time limits have to be in place but surely 15 minutes is too little for some people.  
The issue of multiple aliments annoyed me, as I believe 50 euros is a lot of money to give over. People generally go to the doctor with one major problem and some minor complaints. However, who knows whether it is a minor problem or the start of something more serious.
That is why we go to the doctor to discuss all our concerns. 
The way I took up the notice was if you have many ailments, book more than one visit to see the doctor. i.e. pay another 50 euros!!


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## ClubMan (18 May 2006)

Why not do something constructive about the situation:

Complain to the _GP _in question
Haggle over charges
Find another _GP _that does not use such a charging structure
Move and tell the original _GP _why you are moving
Complain to whatever statutories authority might be relevant in this case (e.g. _ODCA, Medical Council_?)


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## lab-rat (18 May 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Why not do something constructive about the situation:
> 
> Complain to the _GP _in question
> Haggle over charges
> ...


Clubman you are dead right. I moan about this sort of thing but generally do not follow it up. What offical body do you think deals with this sort of thing? 
Does anyone know? 
I will never go back to this practice again.


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## ClubMan (18 May 2006)

The ones that I mentioned would be worth checking first - having followed the other suggestions first ideally.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 May 2006)

I see no problem with the doctor charging on a time  basis like any other professional. With a packed room, it is very frustrating for doctors to have chatterbox patients. If they charge €50 per 15 minutes, then they should charge €100 for 30 minutes. 

I think that the multiple ailments should be challenged.

Brendan


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## ubiquitous (18 May 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> With a packed room, it is very frustrating for doctors to have chatterbox patients.


It is also very frustrating for patients who are waiting outside for 20 mins+ when appointments run late due to one patient hogging time.


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## askalot (18 May 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> I see no problem with the doctor charging on a time  basis like any other professional. With a packed room, it is very frustrating for doctors to have chatterbox patients. If they charge €50 per 15 minutes, then they should charge €100 for 30 minutes.
> 
> I think that the multiple ailments should be challenged.
> 
> Brendan



Based on that then they should charge 16.66 for the average 5 minute visit. OK - that gets my vote!


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## fobs (18 May 2006)

I too think this is ridicolous as most doctors I reckon have the patients best interests at heart and would not go down the road of charging per minute. THey are another professional as Brendan has said but surely as a primary carer of a persons health they have more responsibility than say and It consultant you are paying to fix your PC?

I often cmplain about our doctors appts going behind time but can see why it happens and would prefer to be kept waiting than to be rushed in/out. Also agree that often a person going for what they deem to be the major complaint can mention another minor complaint and that this could turn out to be more serious. i.e mentioning a mole that could be cancerous etc... that a patient may not mention if under time pressure/single complaint practice!

Also feel some people if going for conditions in which they are embarassed about i.e. sexual health,depression etc... need more than 15 minutes to tease out the problem. 

My family doctor is excellant and very thorough and hope he remains this way or would change practice!


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## Seagull (18 May 2006)

Brendan said:
			
		

> I see no problem with the doctor charging on a time  basis like any other professional. With a packed room, it is very frustrating for doctors to have chatterbox patients. If they charge €50 per 15 minutes, then they should charge €100 for 30 minutes.
> Brendan


Should I then be able to charge the doctor for my time when I'm kept waiting for an hour and a half after my appointment time?


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## Setanter (18 May 2006)

€200 p/h vat inclusive in perspective with other professional advice such as legal, accountancy etc is not over the top. 

Would you be surprised if say your pension advisor charged less? 

Fifteen minutes is a quite a long time to spend with a GP. Anything longer would seem to me to be a counselling session and probably is inappropriate use of what would appear to be a scarce resource.


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## lab-rat (19 May 2006)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> It is also very frustrating for patients who are waiting outside for 20 mins+ when appointments run late due to one patient hogging time.


 
Of course, there has to be some control over time, I think people should have some compassion. I would have no problem waiting, you just cannot slot people into 15 minutes and kick them out after that. I have no doubt that if this rule was enforced everywhere people would be up in arms. God we pay enough for each visit, the least we can all expect is the appropriate time to talk to the doctor.


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## ubiquitous (19 May 2006)

lab-rat said:
			
		

> I would have no problem waiting,



I wonder have you ever sat in a crowded doctors surgery for 30 minutes plus trying to placate a sick child?



			
				lab-rat said:
			
		

> you just cannot slot people into 15 minutes and kick them out after that.


Why? If someone wants a double appointment, they can book one.



			
				lab-rat said:
			
		

> I think people should have some compassion.



I agree.


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## Bamhan (19 May 2006)

I would be adsolutely thrilled if my Gp operated this 15 minute time slot thing. 
If appointments ran on time it would make life so much easier.
I would be more than happy to pay for a longer appoibntment if I could get an appointment time and be guaranteed I would see my doctor within a reasonable timeframe.
As it is I have often sat in a waiting room in excess of two hours...
I know GPs get called out to emergencies but I think some of them simply do not manage their times properly and the appointment time you are given bears no relation what so ever to the time you will be seen.
I don't think I have ever been longer than 15 mins in a doctor's surgery.

I think the fact that this doctor was honest enough to display his policy and guidelines thus giving people an option to go elsewhere is commendable.


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## JohnnyBoy (19 May 2006)

As for running over time-usually not the Dr's fault-some peolple will be in seeing the DR & then expecting to have all their life 's problems sorted out in 15mins-they're not magicians & do an extremely tough job.People sometimes think the Dr is running late on purpose.Oh & by the way ,they have a huge burden of responsibility unlike the tradesmen who 'll charge u80euros to have the washing machine fixed!


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## Carpenter (19 May 2006)

I visited my doctor this morning for a blood test, one of a few I've had lately.  I was charged €10, last month I wasn't charged at all!  I think there may be some greedy doctors around but I'm glad to be with our particular family doctor.


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## demoivre (19 May 2006)

Setanter said:
			
		

> €200 p/h vat inclusive in perspective with other professional advice such as legal, accountancy etc is not over the top.
> 
> Would you be surprised if say your pension advisor charged less?
> 
> Fifteen minutes is a quite a long time to spend with a GP. Anything longer would seem to me to be a counselling session and probably is inappropriate use of what would appear to be a scarce resource.



That's hit the nail on the head. The nature of GP work has been changing over the years and more people are presenting at GPs  now with psychological problems than in the past ie it's a counselling session they are after. My father is a semi retired GP and he increasingly found that to be the case in his  later years practicing. I also know a much younger GP who has also said to me that " GP work is not what it used to be " ie where people presented in with genuine physical ailments. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the op's experience being replicated at other GP surgeries.


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## JohnnyBoy (19 May 2006)

The large majority are trying to improve people's lot as opposed to estate agents,solicitors etc


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## Gordanus (25 May 2006)

lab-rat said:
			
		

> There should be a more flexible attitude towards consultation times. Of course some time limits have to be in place but surely 15 minutes is too little for some people.


I guess the average is 15 minutes.  Some people will be in and out in 10, others will take 20.   The  GPs have to make their money, pay their receptionists, ancilliary staff, the overheads etc etc.  I don't envy them, they work long hours and most of them aren't making the pots of money that hospital consultants make.


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## babydays (25 May 2006)

My 2 yr old was recently sick so we visited the doc - paid E50. Fine. Then the 18 mth old got same so visited paid E50. The 2 yr old continued to be ill for a worrying amount of time. Visited again, had both kids with me (at that age where else would they be but with their mother!) doc looked over other 18 mth who was almost ok (took probably 3 minutes extra). 
On way out got further bill for E70 - the receptionist presented it as a favour to me - just E35 each for follow-up visit. I was so shocked that I just paid up and went out in a daze!

E170 in two weeks for same illness.


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## Bamhan (26 May 2006)

When I questioned this policy with my GP I was told I was paying for his professional opinion and no matter if I came back once or twenty times with the same or different illnesses I would have to pay each time.


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## Seagull (26 May 2006)

I think follow-up visits are cheaper because they tend to be quicker. The doctor already knows what the problem is, and it's generally just a case of either checking progress or seeing if the prescribed treatment is working.


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## Resident (26 May 2006)

I think follow up costs vary, 
I know a couple of GPs in Limerick that dont charge for quick follow ups.

maybe its a regional difference


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## jammacjam (26 May 2006)

My doctor or my son's doctor never charge for follow ups or for extra on the clock, I think this is a bit much when they are charging you 50 anyway. most patients are only in 5 minutes anyway, will you get a reduction if you are in less then 10 mins.


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## Tarquin (26 May 2006)

Appearances


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## Murt10 (26 May 2006)

Here is a link to a previous discussion on the Hospital Saturday Fund. The more expensive options offer some reimbursement of the cost of GP visits.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=5325


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## babydays (27 May 2006)

The HSA seems to be an English fund. All costs are quoted in Sterling. There's no mention of Irish membership.


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## Crea (27 May 2006)

HSA is available in Ireland. I had it through work but if you call the UK number they'll send out the Irish blurb.


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## Murt10 (27 May 2006)

The HSF and the HSA are completely different.

Here is a link to the HSF (Hospital Saturday Fund) Irish page.

[broken link removed]

When you click on a scheme you can see what the benefits are. For my family the HSF more than pays for itself every year.

Receipts from all the family can be added together. One visit to a dentist and an optician and you are into serious money. I'm in Scheme 750.This costs E32.50 per month. For this, in addition to the optical and dental benefit, you also get E19 towards the cost of a GP visit, up to a maximum of 10 visits per 12 months and up to E40 towards the cost of 4 prescriptions in a year..

Also should you be unlucky enough to have a couple of days in hospital they pay E84 per night. 

If you or your family have to attend a consultant you can claim back up to half the cost, subject to a maximum pay out of E900 per year. 

A grant E500 for having a baby - worth thinking about, if you are considering starting a family. Plus refund of 1/2 the cost of the consultant.


Murt


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## minion (29 May 2006)

Heres what happened to me about 6 months ago.
Went into the doctor with severe stomach pains.
Asks me what did i eat last night - Curry.
Gives me a note with Mallox written on it to buy in the chemist.
HE asked me how my Asthma was - did i need a prescription for inhalers.  I said its fine and i have a 6 month prescription i got from him 2 weeks ago. 

So off i go 5 minutes total.  The receptionist asked for €85.
For what.
A consultaion for my stomach pain and another for Atshma that HE HIMSELF brought up.  I paid it like a fool.

But it gets worse.
All day and all night i'm in severe pain with the stomach after taking this rubbish he gave me for indigestion.  At about 4 am i phoned the hospital and asked could they send out an ambulance.  They asked me what the doctor said so i told them.  Sorry, you'll have to make your own way to the hospital.  I phoned the next door neighbour because i couldnt move.  And got carried to his car and brought to hospital.

Appendix had burst and i nearly died.  I had paid my doctor €85 for nearly killing me.


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## bb12 (30 May 2006)

My brother has 5 kids aged 11 to 1. They all had a bad flu earlier in the year so they were brought to the local GP who usually charges €60 per visit. All the kids were in the room at the same time for a total visit time of 20mins and they were then asked to pay €300 for the visit!! My brother blew up at the doctor who eventually reduced it to €200. But still a rip-off in my mind! Surely this kind of practice will discourage parents to seek medical advice for children?


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## JohnnyBoy (30 May 2006)

bb12-where was that GP(cowboy) based!


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## ragazza (31 May 2006)

bb12 - thats outrageous!
If I was your brother, I'd have paid the 60E and walked out the door, and never back to that doctor.


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## Ron Burgundy (31 May 2006)

How about playing him at his own game, you go in and your session lasts 8 mins, sit there for the other 7 saying i've paid for 15 mins and i'm getting it.

i'd love to see their reaction to that.


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## ophelia (31 May 2006)

My Mum and Dad have the opposite problem with their doctor.  He is really nice and listens to them rattling on for as long as it takes.  He often deals with 3 or 4 complaints in the one visit.  He will then sit back and chat to them for up to an HOUR !!  Sometimes they have to make up excuses to get out of his surgery.  Luckily all the other patients in the waiting room don't seem to mind, as they know they are going to get the same attention.


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