# Going bankrupt in Northern Ireland but property in the Republic



## fliptzer

Hi
I was wondering if someone could answer a very specific question?

I moved from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland about 7 months ago. I don’t have an issue with COMI/residency, etc. All my debts are based in the Republic and I am considering going bankrupt in Northern Ireland. 
The only concern I have is that secured debts are not included in bankruptcy. Therefore, mortgages/properties are not included as they are secure.  I have two properties in joint names with me and my ex (who’s disappeared). 

If I go bankrupt in Northern Ireland and the OA takes over my assets (inc. interests in properties) can the bank come after me (under UK or Irish law) for any shortfall in the mortgage?

I have been looking over various threads with regard to this but there’s so much conflicting views I’m getting confused. I estimate that if the properties are sold there may be about €300k shortfall and I’m worried the bank can chase me for it after I declare bankruptcy.


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## Time

Any shortfall would be covered under the bankruptcy.


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## fliptzer

Thanks, I've been to a couple of solicitors to verify this but they're not sure and not prepared to look into it (stating they are not insured to give advice regarding Irish properties as I'm based in Northern Ireland). Do you know of any articles/websites that can clarify it?


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## GDUFFY

[broken link removed]

This website has good info. Steve Thatcher posts on this website,search his posts .  

Don't worry, if you go bankrupt in N.I. your home and dry ...once your COMI is true and proper , nobody can chase you for any debt after your declared bankrupt. Except for some exemptions..... unpaid child maintenance , fraudulent debts,


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## Steve Thatcher

fliptzer said:


> Hi
> I was wondering if someone could answer a very specific question?
> 
> I moved from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland about 7 months ago. I don’t have an issue with COMI/residency, etc. All my debts are based in the Republic and I am considering going bankrupt in Northern Ireland.
> The only concern I have is that secured debts are not included in bankruptcy. Therefore, mortgages/properties are not included as they are secure.  I have two properties in joint names with me and my ex (who’s disappeared).
> 
> If I go bankrupt in Northern Ireland and the OA takes over my assets (inc. interests in properties) can the bank come after me (under UK or Irish law) for any shortfall in the mortgage?
> 
> I have been looking over various threads with regard to this but there’s so much conflicting views I’m getting confused. I estimate that if the properties are sold there may be about €300k shortfall and I’m worried the bank can chase me for it after I declare bankruptcy.




Hi perhaps I can shed some light. Do you still have both properties under your control? You say your ex has disappeared. If I was advising you, I would advise you to hand the properties back to the lender. In due course these will be sold. The shortfall on the mortgage will be written off. The reason I advise this is that it makes the official receiver's job easier.
You can however still go bankrupt with the properties in your control, (except Master Kelly the bankruptcy judge likes any excuse to give a southern Irish bankrupt a hard time) and your share of these properties then vest in the OR. The lender will be written to by the OR and told their rights in relation to the properties are unaffected and so they can take what action they like to protect their interest. The important point for you is that the liability you have under the mortgage falls away.
When you are automatically released from your bankruptcy, you will have no remaining liability under the mortgages.

I am constantly staggered at the lack of knowledge by some solicitors on the point. It comes up here time and time again.

Steve Thatcher
Www.debtoptions.ie


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## Time

It is the vested interests solicitors have in bank matters that is telling. They don't want to get into a conflict of interest.


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## fliptzer

Hi Steve,
Both properties are under my control. I have been dealing directly with the bank for the past number of years as my ex emigrated (and hasn’t paid me a penny since). 
At this stage, it is doubtful the bank will start proceedings (despite me asking them to do so for months) and I’ve decided to go bankrupt.  When I do, I expect both properties to still be under my control.  
From my understanding, the OA takes control and will try to work something out with my ex/bank with regard selling the properties.  I know it would be best to surrender both properties before going bankrupt to make things easier for the OA but I don’t have time (the bank won’t accept them) plus I’ve no idea where my ex is to sign any forms, etc.
Am I correct in saying, that once I go bankrupt the bank cannot come after me for any shortfall on any mortgage (even if it takes years to sell the properties)?
I have heard rumours about banks asking people to sign some form of ‘acknowledgement of debt’ but there’s no way I would (as it is a ‘fresh’ acknowledgement of debt after bankruptcy). 
Thanks for your help!
PS: You’d be amazed at how many solicitors in Belfast can’t answer this very simple question.


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## fliptzer

Sorry - I don't know why the text came up like that. Didn't mean to shout.


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## Time

> Am I correct in saying, that once I go bankrupt the bank cannot come after me for any shortfall on any mortgage (even if it takes years to sell the properties)?


Correct. Don't matter if it takes them 20 years to sell them, not your problem.

Don't sign anything that prejudices your future position.


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## PiedPiper

*Why?*

Why are you going bankrupt before you absolutely have to, this makes no sense.


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## Peter54

Time said:


> It is the vested interests solicitors have in bank matters that is telling. They don't want to get into a conflict of interest.



You can say that again.  One particular solicitor balked at the idea of taking on my mortgage case i.e asking the bank for a write down.  This was the very same solicitor who was there with me when I purchased my home.  Most have now ran for cover!  A lot of accountants have gone into hiding too.


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## prodigy81

Hi Fliptster,

I am thinking of doing the same and your circumstances are exactly the same as mine, so I am dying to find out what happened??
regards


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## Steve Thatcher

fliptzer said:


> Thanks, I've been to a couple of solicitors to verify this but they're not sure and not prepared to look into it (stating they are not insured to give advice regarding Irish properties as I'm based in Northern Ireland). Do you know of any articles/websites that can clarify it?



The lack of basic knowledge like this makes me mad.

Any debt that you have whether actual or contingent is written off in the bankruptcy

if you go bankrupt with secured debt still on the property it will be written off once the property is sold and the debt chrystalised even if that is after you have been discharged from your bankruptcy

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com


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## Cantalia

Steve the issue here is that there seems to be a perception that secured and unsecured debt are treated differently under a bankruptcy. I have seen that question coming up on this site before. So to clarify is it correct that are treated the same under a NI/UK bankruptcy in that they are both written off in full.
Re Times comment on Solicitors, almost no rep.of.Ire solicitor is in a position to offer may advice on NI law. It's not at all unusual, ask them about NI family law and they won't have any idea either. And visa versa for NI solicitors. You need to find a solicitor who specialises in cross border bankruptcies, its completely unrealistic to expect a regular solicitor to know that.


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## Steve Thatcher

Hi Cantalia, see below



Cantalia said:


> Steve the issue here is that there seems to be a perception that secured and unsecured debt are treated differently under a bankruptcy. I have seen that question coming up on this site before. So to clarify is it correct that are treated the same under a NI/UK bankruptcy in that they are both written off in full.
> 
> Yes of course an unsecured debt is automatically ascertainable. The secured liability cannot be gauged until the property is sold. But whenever that is, is irrelevant as the liability under the lending document is brought to an end by the bankruptcy.
> 
> Re Times comment on Solicitors, almost no rep.of.Ire solicitor is in a position to offer may advice on NI law. It's not at all unusual, ask them about NI family law and they won't have any idea either. And visa versa for NI solicitors. You need to find a solicitor who specialises in cross border bankruptcies, its completely unrealistic to expect a regular solicitor to know that.



Fine, but this is simply basic land law. It is not a hugely complex concept, any how, the answer is now plainly set out above

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com


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## HarymetSally

*list to ensure proper COMI*

Don't worry, if you go bankrupt in N.I. your home and dry ...once your COMI is true and proper , nobody can chase you for any debt after your declared bankrupt. Except for some exemptions..... unpaid child maintenance , fraudulent debts,[/QUOTE]

Thanks gduffy 
can you give me an idea on what to be done to establish full and proper COMI.... 
Or has anyone advise in this......
Thanks


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