# Hughs Chicken run



## Newbie! (9 Jan 2008)

Has anyone else been watching this tv programme on Ch4 over the last two nights? just interested to hear what people think. For a while now i have been very chicken conscious and try to buy free-range most of the time. 

One of the things that was said on the first night and i think its true is that chicken is now a commodity and if we treated it more as a luxury food item, we would find it easier to part with the extra euro for free-range or organic. I think this is absolutely true. In general are people in Ireland concerned with chicken and what do AAM contributors buy? 

On a side note, Superquinn now sell corn-fed chickens. Does this just mean they are corn fed but still intensively farmed?


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## Sherman (9 Jan 2008)

Newbie! said:


> On a side note, Superquinn now sell corn-fed chickens. Does this just mean they are corn fed but still intensively farmed?


 
Yes. The only certification that will guarantee animal welfare is organic - 'free-range' in Ireland is a very flexible concept.

I've watched the programme over the last two nights.  TBH it's not surprising - I find it hard to believe people still don't know how intensive chicken farming is carried out.  Next up someone should do a story on how pigs are intensively reared...


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## Cahir (9 Jan 2008)

I've been watching this too and it's making me glad I'm vegetarian.    

You should read "Eating" by Peter Singer and Jim Mason.  There's an interesting section on pig farming in the US and UK, and I'd imagine Ireland has similar standards to the UK.


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## Purple (9 Jan 2008)

Cahir said:


> I've been watching this too and it's making me glad I'm vegetarian.
> 
> You should read "Eating" by Peter Singer and Jim Mason.  There's an interesting section on pig farming in the US and UK, and I'd imagine Ireland has similar standards to the UK.


I try to buy organic chickens because they taste better. The animal welfare side of it is a bonus.
I'm more concerned about how pigs are treated than chickens as pigs are smarted animals.

I have become immune to the morally superior ramblings of vegetarians.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> I have become immune to the morally superior ramblings of vegetarians.




I was vegetarian myself for about two years (college years, no money and influenced by two permanently vegetarian siblings). Maybe it rubbed off on me?


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## swordshead (9 Jan 2008)

While i agree that intensively fed chicken is abhorent, the fact is those chickens are genetically modified to grow to max size in 5 weeks. Regardless whether they had access to ample space or outdoor light (the free range lifestyle), the birds after a few weeks develop muscle, leg,heart problems due to the sheer pressure of having to grow so fast! Yes it would be fantastic if all chickens could be free range..but the issue of genetically modified animals needs to be addressed first imho! No point in having an acre to run around in..if the birds physically cannot move!

As a side...pigs are treated worse than chickens! Ireland doesnt have the worse standards, Germanys pig production would shock even hard core meat eaters!


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## Sylvester3 (9 Jan 2008)

swordshead said:


> While i agree that intensively fed chicken is abhorent, the fact is those chickens are genetically modified to grow to max size in 5 weeks. Regardless whether they had access to ample space or outdoor light (the free range lifestyle), the birds after a few weeks develop muscle, leg,heart problems due to the sheer pressure of having to grow so fast! Yes it would be fantastic if all chickens could be free range..but the issue of genetically modified animals needs to be addressed first imho! No point in having an acre to run around in..if the birds physically cannot move!
> 
> As a side...pigs are treated worse than chickens! Ireland doesnt have the worse standards, Germanys pig production would shock even hard core meat eaters!



Are you sure those animals have been GM? I'm pretty sure that no GM animals, whilst they do exist for medical research (eg drug development, research into alternative sources for human transplants), would be allowed anywhere near the food chain. We are barely allowing GM corn into it!

However chickens have been intensively *bred* to have the qualities you describe, and I see that as institutional animal cruelty. I can afford to buy organic chicken and milk and I do so.


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## swordshead (9 Jan 2008)

Sylvester3 said:


> Are you sure those animals have been GM? .


I would argue that selective breeding, the process by which these birds have been bred can be classed under the term GM, no?


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## Purple (9 Jan 2008)

swordshead said:


> I would argue that selective breeding, the process by which these birds have been bred can be classed under the term GM, no?



Then so have cows, dogs, sheep and every other domestic animal.


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## Sherman (9 Jan 2008)

swordshead said:


> I would argue that selective breeding, the process by which these birds have been bred can be classed under the term GM, no?


 
In that case literally every single meat, fruit and vegetable we eat, as well as virtually every flower, grass and tree we grow, is 'GM'.


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## bullbars (9 Jan 2008)

Admitedly I'm not from a bio/agri science background but I thought GM was refering to modifying cells & genes etc. whereas altering feed to produce faster body growth would be classed under intensive farming methods??


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## Ron Burgundy (9 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I was vegetarian myself for about two years (college years, no money and influenced by two permanently vegetarian siblings). Maybe it rubbed off on me?




At last we have an answer


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## MrMan (9 Jan 2008)

I think the rearing of livestock and where my food comes from is one of those times where ignorance is bliss, it may be wrong, but I'm a fussy eater as it is so chicken and pigs are all I have!


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

bullbars said:


> Admitedly I'm not from a bio/agri science background but I thought GM was refering to modifying cells & genes etc. whereas altering feed to produce faster body growth would be classed under intensive farming methods??


I guess most people (knowingly or not) mean the following when referring to _GM_?


> *genetically modified organism* (GMO) or *genetically engineered organism* (GEO) is an organism whose genetic material has been altered using genetic engineering techniques. These techniques are generally known as recombinant DNA technology. With recombinant DNA technology, DNA molecules from different sources are combined _in vitro_ into one molecule to create a new gene. This DNA is then transferred into an organism and causes the expression of modified or novel traits.


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## Vanilla (9 Jan 2008)

I suppose I was aware of the fact that intensive chicken farming is not pretty before but last year I read a book called Two Caravans- it's actually funny but part of it describes a chicken farm and it is a fairly brutal description. Since I read it I banned anything other than free range or organic chicken purchases in our house. 

A couple of years ago we had our nephew staying, who is French. I had a roast chicken for dinner one day and proceeded to cut it into four sections- like a cross across the body. Florian watched, fascinated. He had never seen a chicken whose bones were so soft they could be cut with a knife ( a carving knife). The first time I bought an organic chicken I could understand why.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Since I read it I banned anything other than free range or organic chicken purchases in our house.


Does that not get a bit monotonous? Do you not pine for the telly and stuff?


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## Purple (9 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Does that not get a bit monotonous? Do you not pine for the telly and stuff?


 LOL Classic!


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## Vanilla (9 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Does that not get a bit monotonous? Do you not pine for the telly and stuff?


 
Some commas are needed for your interpretation. Stop changing the subject - posting rule something or other...


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## MandaC (9 Jan 2008)

Watched the programme tonight.  Will only buy free range from now on.

Last week, Superquinn had an offer on chicken, medium SQ chicken €4.49 and Silean Or chicken (Corn Fed) €3.39.

The Superquinn free range chicken smaller than the Silean Or chicken was €10.99.  Thats a big price difference.

Had the family over for dinner on Sunday so needed 2 chickens, that worked out at almost €22 instead of € 6.80.

Big difference.


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## MOB (10 Jan 2008)

Most older suburban gardens are big enough to keep a few chickens.  I have often thought about doing it, but never got around to it.  (We are in a detached bungalow on about a quarter acre or maybe a little more, which was out in the country but which has now been swallowed up by housing estates.)  Anybody out there who has done this (specifically in a suburban setting)?


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## Purple (10 Jan 2008)

MOB said:


> Most older suburban gardens are big enough to keep a few chickens.  I have often thought about doing it, but never got around to it.  (We are in a detached bungalow on about a quarter acre or maybe a little more, which was out in the country but which has now been swallowed up by housing estates.)  Anybody out there who has done this (specifically in a suburban setting)?


 Couldn't live with the smell.


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## Sunny (10 Jan 2008)

MandaC said:


> Last week, Superquinn had an offer on chicken, medium SQ chicken €4.49 and Silean Or chicken (Corn Fed) €3.39.
> 
> The Superquinn free range chicken smaller than the Silean Or chicken was €10.99. Thats a big price difference.
> 
> Big difference.


 
Very expensive for a free range chicken. Are you sure it wasn't organic??


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## Janet (10 Jan 2008)

I buy organic free-ranging chickens more or less direct from the farmer (I buy from the farmer at Ranelagh market on Sundays, who doesn't raise chickens himself but sells them for a neighbouring farm).  I buy less meat so I can afford to buy meat and chicken from him and the taste and quality of the meat is definitely worth it in my opinion.  An organic chicken normally costs around €17 - I'm not sure you'd get one anywhere for less than €15.  They are generally bigger birds though and I'll get at least a week's worth of food out of one (just feeding myself, no kids to worry about), with stock used to make soup making another few meals as well.  Am tempted to try my hand at risotto now too.

The following forums are useful resources for anyone considering keeping their own chickens although most of them are UK-based so regulations etc. will be different here and you'll need to check with your own council to see what's allowed. 





http://selfsufficientish.com/forum/

This is an Irish off-shoot of the River Cottage forum, more useful for asking questions of people living in Ireland:
http://countrytalkandtips.myfreeforum.org/

This blog is by a woman who only started keeping chickens last year, in the small-ish garden of her ex-council house, you can click the category "chickens" on the right-hand side of the page to go to posts on her experiences with raising chickens :  http://bean-sprouts.blogspot.com/


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## Carpenter (10 Jan 2008)

MOB said:


> I have often thought about doing it, but never got around to it..... Anybody out there who has done this (specifically in a suburban setting)?


 
My friend, this is for you:

http://www.omlet.co.uk/homepage/homepage.php


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## frash (11 Jan 2008)

How did the last episode end?
My Sky+ box fecked up.
Just as Hugh was about to announce the result to the town at the chicken market thing the recording ended!
Did they get 50% free range?


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## Cahir (11 Jan 2008)

They got 60% but that was only based on Tesco sales.


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## Janet (11 Jan 2008)

I didn't pick up that it was only based on Tesco sales and would be surprised at that.  It was only based on sales of whole chickens, a point he made when reading out the results - it didn't include sales of ready meals or breaded fillets and that kind of thing.


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## Sylvester3 (15 Jan 2008)

Some surprising news today that the US is going to allow cloned animals to enter the foodchain. That is a surprising step forward - I wonder where it will lead. As the article says, cloning is an expensive technique, but I wonder if there is now the incentive to develop and improve it so it can ramp up meat production on a larger scale...?


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## Newbie! (16 Jan 2008)

Following on from my horror at this programme, I happened to be in Dunnes on Sat eve and out of curiosity I looked for an organic chicken. There was only about 4 on the shelf. Whilst I didn't notice the weight, they appeared to be very small. Cost came in at €22.99. I thought this really was expensive for it. Is there anywhere else to look for an organic chicken other than supermarkets? do any of the farmers markets sell chicken?


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## Sherman (16 Jan 2008)

Newbie! said:


> Following on from my horror at this programme, I happened to be in Dunnes on Sat eve and out of curiosity I looked for an organic chicken. There was only about 4 on the shelf. Whilst I didn't notice the weight, they appeared to be very small. Cost came in at €22.99. I thought this really was expensive for it. Is there anywhere else to look for an organic chicken other than supermarkets? do any of the farmers markets sell chicken?


 
A few butchers do organic chicken as well - there are a couple in Terenure village, and one in Glasthule I think. I got an organic chicken in Nolan's in Clontarf before Xmas which I think cost about €17. They can be smaller, but you'll find the meat is a lot more dense so you end up eating less of it. The carcass makes great chicken stock too. I think I've also seen organic chickens in the Temple Bar market - but you'll probably pay through the nose there. You might be able to find mail order organic meat like they have in the UK.


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## cole (16 Jan 2008)

Dunnes had an offer during the week on free range chicken, 2 packs of oyster things/drumsticks for €5.


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## Pique318 (16 Jan 2008)

I bought my first free-range chicken product today 

2 chicken breast fillets for 5.55 in Tesco. 2 of the boggo-standard fillets were 3.29.

Don't eat as much fresh chicken anymore but I think I can say that I'll be aiming for the free-range in future.


Watching "Eat to save your life" at the mo and the chances of eating KFC etc anymore is probably 1%

Ignorance was bliss !


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## frash (17 Jan 2008)

That butcher mention above in Glasthule sells them for €14.99 - complete with ankles (which you never see on supermarket chickens).
Yummy - so much more texture & the bones were really hard unlike the mushy ones you normally get.

Bought one yesterday in M&S for €10 - Oakham is the brand - it was mentioned on the Jamie's Fowl Dinners program.
Haven't cooked it yet.


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## Newbie! (17 Jan 2008)

frash said:


> Bought one yesterday in M&S for €10 - Oakham is the brand - it was mentioned on the Jamie's Fowl Dinners program.
> Haven't cooked it yet.



Are the oakham chickens free range? Have eaten a couple of times and they were nice.


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## tallpaul (17 Jan 2008)

Newbie! said:


> Are the oakham chickens free range? Have eaten a couple of times and they were nice.


 
According to this there are various types of Oakham chicken sold by M&S. 

Was in Supervalu and they were charging €7.22 for two small(ish) chicken fillets or €25.39 per kilo  This seems to be the price some people are paying for fillet steak on the other meat/poultry thread...


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## z104 (21 Jan 2008)

I would say that 15/17 euro for a chicken is too exepnsive for the majority of people on an average wage. 
I think it will remain as something for people on a higher wage to differentiate themselves from the people who cannot afford it.
 Status symbol chicken if you will.


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## Purple (21 Jan 2008)

Chicken Snobbery?


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## z104 (21 Jan 2008)

Chickery


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## Sunny (21 Jan 2008)

Niallers said:


> I would say that 15/17 euro for a chicken is too exepnsive for the majority of people on an average wage.
> I think it will remain as something for people on a higher wage to differentiate themselves from the people who cannot afford it.
> Status symbol chicken if you will.


 
Possibly and I do agree that there is a certain snobbery with regards to organic food but these days you can get a chicken that feeds 4-5 people for less than a pint. That can't be right either. Free range chickens should only cost 1-2 euro extra.


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## Purple (21 Jan 2008)

Sunny said:


> these days you can get a chicken that feeds 4-5 people for less than a pint. That can't be right either.


 Or maybe the pint should be cheaper? 





Sunny said:


> Free-range chickens should only cost 1-2 euro extra.


 Do you know the cost base differential between free-range chicken production and the cheaper than a pint variety?


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## Sunny (21 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> Or maybe the pint should be cheaper? Do you know the cost base differential between free-range chicken production and the cheaper than a pint variety?


 

There is no 'should' about cheaper pints! I can only go by what was shown in that programme which said there wasn't a big difference in the cost base of free range versus battery chickens and that the consumer should only end up spending about £1 extra. Now unless the situation in Ireland is completely different and we pay twice as much for free range as in the UK (wouldn't surprise me!!), there shouldn't be that much of a difference over here.


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## Purple (21 Jan 2008)

Sunny said:


> I can only go by what was shown in that programme which said there wasn't a big difference in the cost base of free range versus battery chickens and that the consumer should only end up spending about £1 extra. Now unless the situation in Ireland is completely different and we pay twice as much for free range as in the UK (wouldn't surprise me!!), there shouldn't be that much of a difference over here.


  Good point but do remember that there are economies of scale in processing (killing and plucking), packaging and distribution that add to the cost differential.
It is probably also the case that farmers are looking to make a bigger profit (or even a bigger margin) per unit, as the margins for the cheaper birds seem to be very low.


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## Sunny (22 Jan 2008)

There is an article in the Irish Times today on the subject. The IFA says it costs producers an extra €1 euro in feed for each free-range bird but the mark-up in the supermarkets is substantially more. They claim that farmers just about about cover their costs. They get an average of 35c for every standard chicken and 60c for free-range birds. That is a crazy margin. I guess it is another example of supermarkets screwing both the producer and consumer. Putting it into AAM context, the bid-offer spreads on chickens is massive and supermarkets must be cleaning up!


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## Purple (22 Jan 2008)

It's worth looking at but the IFA are hardly independent in this context.


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## Sunny (22 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> It's worth looking at but the IFA are hardly independent in this context.


 
true but they are the same sort of margins mentioned in the UK as well.


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## Newbie! (22 Jan 2008)

Niallers said:


> I would say that 15/17 euro for a chicken is too exepnsive for the majority of people on an average wage.
> I think it will remain as something for people on a higher wage to differentiate themselves from the people who cannot afford it.
> Status symbol chicken if you will.



I thought the same. Bought an organic chicken in M&S last week for €10.25 (this included 25% off). So as a couple, who eat bigger than average portions we had roast chicken on Saturday night, thai curry on Sunday night and a chicken risotto Monday night. That in my books is a very very cheap chicken.


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## frash (31 Jan 2008)

If a chicken is packaged as "organic" does that automatically mean that it's "free range"?


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## Sherman (31 Jan 2008)

Under the UK's [broken link removed] yes, organic must also mean free range. 

According to the Irish  all organic birds are free range.  Of course, these are independent certification bodies - I don't know whether organic must mean free range by Irish/EU law.


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