# Live on low income - A skill?



## DerKaiser (22 Nov 2011)

There's a lot of tales of woe out there at the moment - I've extracted the following examples from comments on Independent.ie

http://www.independent.ie/national-...in-child-benefit-revealed-online-2941229.html

_Medical card for dentists reduced to covering just 2 fillings and extractions only. It costs €120 for a filling at my dentist. That's two thirds the weekly rate of someone receiving €188 a week.”_

_Try to pay for food, ESB, phone, tax and insurance, maintenance and NCT, petrol, clothes, heating. Now to top it all off I have to pay a tax for owning my home, a charge for having a septic tank and also water charges. How far would you get on €188 per week?_

_“Myself and my fiance have two kids together. We've had our heating turned off because of inflation. I paid over €1,200 January last, didn’t use it all summer and they sent us a bill of €1,400. We’re were on social welfare at the moment._

_“I didn’t have dinner with my child today, I had a few plain crackers. There wasn’t enough for both of us to eat. Didn’t put cheese on them as I had to make sure there would be some for his lunch tomorrow.

“Dinner tomorrow....well I will see what I can rustle up...there's one egg left......potato pancakes and a fried egg for him tomorrow.....me.....I think there are some crackers left!_

After the initial pity, it has left me wondering if we are doing enough to educate people on how to live on little.  It is a skill many people appear to have lost since the 80s..

Based on the above comments:

How can someone in dire straits not see that €120 for a filling is 50% too high?

How does someone get a €1400 heating bill over the summer?

How does someone with an internet connection justify feeding their child dry crackers for dinner?

Will someone on the dole not assume or realise they are likely to be exempt from property tax?


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## micmclo (22 Nov 2011)

> I paid over €1,200 January last, didn’t use it all summer and they sent us a bill of €1,400



Do they have a sauna in the house? 

I don't use heating ten months of the year and even last winter with electric heating my highest ESB never topped two hundred. They are usually well under one hundred
Fair enough he has a family but those bills are outrageous

This guy mentions ESB and heating separately.
Yikes, what are they doing?


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## tiger (22 Nov 2011)

You think that's bad?


> PRIME TIME host Miriam O'Callaghan says her family will enjoy a  "recession Christmas" - as she braces herself to take another pay cut  from RTE.


http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/im-having-a-recession-christmas-miriam-2940651.html


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## Purple (23 Nov 2011)

tiger said:


> You think that's bad?
> 
> http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/im-having-a-recession-christmas-miriam-2940651.html



I think that's a really unfair headline. She's not giving out or poor-mouthing yet it implies she is.


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## Purple (23 Nov 2011)

DerKaiser said:


> After the initial pity, it has left me wondering if we are doing enough to educate people on how to live on little.  It is a skill many people appear to have lost since the 80s..


Maybe AAM should have a Money makeover section?


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## Sunny (23 Nov 2011)

I don't know. I was in Brown Thomas yesterday evening looking around for a jacket when I suddenly realised that this was ridiculous. I went across to Tommy Hilfiger instead....

I think most people are very good at surviving on a budget. The one thing I do have a lot of smypathy for is when emergencies happen and you are trying to get by on a strict budget. I know someone whose heating broke down with young child in the house and is having to borrow the money off family and friends to get it fixed. It is soul destroying for him.


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## gillarosa (23 Nov 2011)

The Adult is eating the crackers while the Child is eating. The heating bill does not relate to the summer, they didn't use is then, its a balance due from last Winter. Its clear when you read the article.


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## becky (23 Nov 2011)

Sunny I thought Tommy Hilfiger was a high end brand.  Did you mean Dunnes.

I paid €210 for a filling recently.  That included 2 - 3 flims, clinical exam, peridontic treatment so €120 wasn't too bad.


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## Sunny (23 Nov 2011)

becky said:


> Sunny I thought Tommy Hilfiger was a high end brand. Did you mean Dunnes.
> 
> I paid €210 for a filling recently. That included 2 - 3 flims, clinical exam, peridontic treatment so €120 wasn't too bad.


 

It was just a pitiful attempt at trying to be smart. Security follow me around places like Brown Thomas!


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## micmclo (23 Nov 2011)

becky said:


> Sunny I thought Tommy Hilfiger was a high end brand.  Did you mean Dunnes.



Whoosh


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## Mpsox (23 Nov 2011)

Sunny said:


> I don't know. I was in Brown Thomas yesterday evening looking around for a jacket when I suddenly realised that this was ridiculous. I went across to Tommy Hilfiger instead....
> 
> I think most people are very good at surviving on a budget. The one thing I do have a lot of smypathy for is when emergencies happen and you are trying to get by on a strict budget. I know someone whose heating broke down with young child in the house and is having to borrow the money off family and friends to get it fixed. It is soul destroying for him.


 
The quality of what you buy on a tight budget is also greatly reduced and that can have long term effects. Cheap processed foods that fill people rather then food that may be better from a nutrition perspective is a simple example


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## micmclo (23 Nov 2011)

Ah yes, Dunnes Stores shoes, now there is a false economy. They fall to pieces

Better off buying a quality pair and worth it in the long run

Must be tough for parents every August though


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## CMCR (23 Nov 2011)

DerKaiser said:


> _“I didn’t have dinner with my child today, I had a few plain crackers. There wasn’t enough for both of us to eat. Didn’t put cheese on them as I had to make sure there would be some for his lunch tomorrow._
> 
> _“Dinner tomorrow....well I will see what I can rustle up...there's one egg left......potato pancakes and a fried egg for him tomorrow.....me.....I think there are some crackers left!_


 
Personally, I don't think this is a skill - it's more about living smartly and irrespective of what anyone says, it IS possible to prepare nutritious, healthy food on a low budget, so I don't understand why anyone is feeding themselves plain crackers.  MABS has published a cookery book with recipies for those on a low income - I have a copy. 

I work long hours and often pop into my local supermarket late in the evening on my way home.  I've noticed that supermarkets heavily discount foods at the end of the day. I've bought meat, poultry and vegetables for a fraction of the cost (as in 75% less) towards the end of the day and either cook ahead or freeze what I can. 

It irritates me when I hear about examples of people living on crackers, or an egg a day - I think they are in the minoity, but that doesn't make good stories for print or radio media.  If anyone is in that situation, there is always the Community Welfare Officer and there are charities that can help.


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## Purple (23 Nov 2011)

Mpsox said:


> The quality of what you buy on a tight budget is also greatly reduced and that can have long term effects. Cheap processed foods that fill people rather then food that may be better from a nutrition perspective is a simple example



I made dinner for 6 last night for under €10. Very tasty and healthy and all fresh ingredients (except for the dried herbs).
I agree with CMCR; it is not just possible but easy to prepare healthy nutritious meals for a very small amount of money.
Thinks like vegetable curries with lentils, chick-peas etc for protein cost very little and are dead easy to make.


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## Guest105 (23 Nov 2011)

CMCR said:


> I work long hours and often pop into my local supermarket late in the evening on my way home.  I've noticed that supermarkets heavily discount foods at the end of the day. I've bought meat, poultry and vegetables for a fraction of the cost (as in 75% less) towards the end of the day and either cook ahead or freeze what I can.
> 
> It irritates me when I hear about examples of people living on crackers, or an egg a day - I think they are in the minoity, but that doesn't make good stories for print or radio media.  If anyone is in that situation, there is always the Community Welfare Officer and there are charities that can help.



That is a very good advise but remember not everybody lives close to a large supermarket such as Dunnes or Tesco so can't avail of the cheap deals late in the evenings.  Also people have their pride and wouldn't dream of asking for help from charities or to approach the Community Welfare Officer for help.  Once I knew a young single mother who went to the CWO and he basically screamed at her for daring to ask for more help. There are no easy solutions here.


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## Guest105 (23 Nov 2011)

DerKaiser said:


> How does someone with an internet connection justify feeding their child dry crackers for dinner?



How do you know they have an internet connection, maybe they are using the free service in the library or a friend's connection.


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## DerKaiser (23 Nov 2011)

cashier said:


> How do you know they have an internet connection, maybe they are using the free service in the library or a friend's connection.



Perhaps. Perhaps not. We'll never know as it was an anonymous post.  We don't even know if it's true.  

I'm not casting aspersions on anyone, just wondering aloud whether there are people who haven't yet adjusted to their lower means through maybe lack of experience in living on a tight budget. 

I find it hard to believe anyone in this country has exhausted all options before going hungry on a regular basis or are social protections genuinely so low that those dependent on welfare cannot reasonably be expected to feed themselves out of it?


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## CMCR (23 Nov 2011)

cashier said:


> But remember not everybody lives close to a large supermarket such as Dunnes or Tesco so can't avail of the cheap deals late in the evenings. Also people have their pride and wouldn't dream of asking for help from charities or to approach the Community Welfare Officer for help. Once I knew a young single mother who went to the CWO and he basically screamed at her for daring to ask for more help. There are no easy solutions here.


 
I accept that, but I was in a branch of Tesco at around 3pm today and there was plenty of food discounted heavily so you don't need to visit late in the evening to avail of bargains, as I usually do later in the evening.  

Separately, regarding people's pride and visiting the CMO, if I was in a situation where all I had to eat was crackers, I wouldn't have an issue with asking for assistance from the CMO. It's a confidential service, so why not? 

Again, I strongly reiterate, it *IS* possible to feed a family healthily and well and with nutritious food on a low budget. I notice recently, that this is now a popular topic in the media and there are often programmes on TV and radio (and indeed recipies in newspapers) with ideas.  

Turning this idea in it's head - would the media consider how maybe some of these people "existing on crackers", are actually spending their money. (Just a thought.....).


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## DerKaiser (6 Dec 2011)

Here's the latest one.

[broken link removed]

Can someone read the article and tell me:

1) How the Child benefit is only €980pm when the rates would suggest €1322 currently (140x2 + 157 + 177x5) and €1228 in 2012 (140x2 + 148 + 160x5)

2) What kind of TV is he paying €50 a week on?

3) What kind of car has he that's costing €400pm in loan repayments?

Point 1) is just misleading
On point 2) A good second hand TV can be got almost for free these days, evidently saving €2.5k over a year!!!! 
On point 3) A reliable 7-8 year old car costs €3k and will do you for 4 years easily saving over €4k a year

I have actually yet to see one of these stories that doesn't have a gaping hole in it.  The true hard up cases aren't courting the media. The examples on the frontline, in the papers, etc actually harden your attitude to poverty through ridiculous situations and expectations


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## orka (7 Dec 2011)

I think maybe there are typos/misunderstanding of the family situation - 980 per month would be for 6 kids so I suspect they are a family of 8 rather than a family with 8 children.

But yes, I agree it's not exactly a sympathy-inducing example. It doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies as a taxpayer that this family appears to be spending €2,600 per annum on a tv and €6,200 on motoring costs.


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## TarfHead (7 Dec 2011)

DerKaiser said:


> 2) What kind of TV is he paying €50 a week on?
> 
> 3) What kind of car has he that's costing €400pm in loan repayments?


 
Maybe they borrowed from a moneylender ?


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## Firefly (7 Dec 2011)

Purple said:


> I made dinner for 6 last night for under €10. Very tasty and healthy and all fresh ingredients (except for the dried herbs).
> I agree with CMCR; it is not just possible but easy to prepare healthy nutritious meals for a very small amount of money.
> Thinks like vegetable curries with lentils, chick-peas etc for protein cost very little and are dead easy to make.



I was in a supermarket about 6 months ago and happened to notice a family of 3 next to me buying some pizza. It was clear to me they were on a budget as they were closely comparing prices trying to decide which one to buy. It was hard not to notice that their trolley was full of the cheapest,nastiest looking processed food you could think of. Around the corner were all the vegetables in the world where with some imagination (soup anyone) could have provided a much cheaper and much healthier alternative. I couldn't see any vegetables or anything "real" in the trolley. As well as wasting money constantly putting this junk into your body can't be good.


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## Ceist Beag (7 Dec 2011)

You can get a large chicken for a fiver these days. We (family of 5) can get two days dinner out of this with some veg. Likewise you can buy ham (to boil) for around 6-7 euro that can last two dinners, or whatever roast is on a special at the time. Certainly it's possible for us to get by on under €50 for dinner for the week for a family of 5 (admittedly our children are young so this may be stretched a bit as they get older). Add in porridge each morning (a bag costing < €2 can last about two weeks) and pasta, beans, eggs, or the like for tea and it's not hard to do the groceries on €100 per week for the 5 of us (with some treats thrown in!).


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## Delboy (7 Dec 2011)

totally agree.....a 10kg bag of spuds can be got for as little as a fiver and will last for how many dinners....but it's much easier to hand over €10 to the young fella and send him to the chipper. then plead poverty and have Vincent Browne shouting out stats about how inequality! leads to lower life expectancy...is it any wonder!

I cook a full dinner 5/6 times a week after getting home from work in the evening/weekends....spuds, 2 veg and meat/fish. Takes less than an hour and if you cook enough, it's ready to heat the following evening, saving time.
No Masterchef style dinners, just basic cooking which anyone could do if they were'nt too busy watching TV all day


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## STEINER (7 Dec 2011)

I read the Irish Times article.

some points:

regarding the child benefit figure, do they have 6 or 8 kids?  article states 8 kids but child benefit should be more.

TV at €50 per week is extravagant, depends on how many weeks the payment goes on I suppose.

Car is expensive to run and pay off especially when have to borrow for groceries, do they have any options, do they need a presumably largish car for the 10 or 8 of them.  Neither in employment and spending €30pw on petrol. Maybe abandon the capacity to carry all the family, get a small car if necessary for shopping, doing stuff.

Rent is very cheap at €60pw but I guess its a pretty crowded 3 bed there.  My mortgage is about €300 a week.

Out of work two years and only holidayed once ever in friend's place.  So, even when working before they didn't holiday.  His problem is his income was never going to be enough for raising a large family, so no family planning.  

They have a nice cinema complex beside them in Liffey Valley, kids under 12 sat/sun mornings and school holiday mornings only €2.50 per kid with the adult €2.50 also.

Decorations up already even if it is a tad early!


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## DerKaiser (8 Dec 2011)

STEINER said:


> Rent is very cheap at €60pw but I guess its a pretty crowded 3 bed there.  My mortgage is about €300 a week.



It's a council house



STEINER said:


> His problem is his income was never going to be enough for raising a large family, so no family planning.


Well here's one to think about.

If himself and the wife were each out working €50k jobs, they'd be taking home €70k after tax.

Of that €70k it's hard to see them getting away with rent less than €15k (5 bedroom house in the area they're from) reducing disposable income to €55k.  Health insurance would surely reduce that by another €5k to €50k. With a couple of children under 5, the working couple would do well to keep creche costs to €15k p.a. reducing their disposable income further to €35k.

With the out of work couple getting the social welfare, fuel allowance, back to school allowance, etc to compare to that €35k (having benefited from medical card, heavily subsidised rent and not having any child minding needs), there would be little to separate the two families in terms of living standards.

In summary, if your family is that big and you're on social welfare you are already in a scenario that only someone on massive wages could support. Do you really think the state should provide you with more than you could provide yourself with off a €100k p.a. wage???


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## Firefly (13 Dec 2011)

I made meatballs last night. I bought 3 packets of Irish steak mince from Aldi for 5.97 euro. In all I made enough for 7 decent adult portions. The spagetti was 59c a packet and there were other ingredients I added that someone may or may not have (red wine, anchovies, herbs, bread crumbs(which I made myself) passata (which I made myself) etc ), but in any case, these 7 portions came in at about a tenner. They were delish. Feeding the little ones these tonight (1 portion) and have 4 portions left which I'm freezing until Fri night for when 2 of our friends are visiting.

Just to add. I did a roast chicken on Sunday (can't remember the price but we always buy free range so it was about 7 or 8 euro). With spuds and veg it fed the 4 of us. last night I fried up the chicken left overs for the small ones and made some lovely chicken stock from the carcass. All I need now is a few root vegetables with a chicken breast and we have delishious homemade chicken/veg soup.

I'm on a roll.....

Another dish I like doing at the weekend (this is more expensive but still cheaper than 2 chinese') is to quick fry cod in butter then pop into the oven. I sit that on sauteed leeks with wilted spinach and serve with boiled baby potatoes (halved). I then dab a melted butter & lemon (with chopped parsley) sauce around the plate. I can buy 2 large, fresh cod fillets in the English Market for about 8 euro, so again for a tenner we can eat very well. I've done this dish quite a bit and can get in onto the plate in about 30 minutes.


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## STEINER (14 Dec 2011)

I got a breakfast pack in Superquinn for a fiver, 10 sausages, 6 rashers, mini ring of black or white pudding.

Theres just the 2 of us here, so thats bangers and mash, carbonara using rashers and a breakfast!

At college it was hard financially.  I rented beside the college.  Sometimes ate in canteen, some lunchtimes back to house for lunch, beans on toast, sardines, banana sandwich etc.

there were 7 of us in the large house and every week we gave a tenner into a kitty for milk, bread, butter etc and also out of this, food for dinners monday -thursday.  you would cook a dinner once a week and it worked great and we had bolognese, fish, pork chops, gammon steaks etc

I have been ill for a while, and my income has dropped by 80% being unable to work,  it hasn't been too bad financially, able to pay mortgage, bills.  It is essential to eliminate wasteful spending on a low income and also stick to a reasonable budget. I always remember a quote from a college classmate who said that whatever your income is, your expenditure matches it anyway.


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