# Redundant from Fin Inst. Staff advisor showed how to inflate earnings. Any comeback?



## ireland1 (1 May 2012)

Ok so hopefully might get some advice on how I stand with my mortgage. 

I was working for one of the main lenders in Ireland and got a staff mortgage with them.

I got a joint mortgage with my partner even do they never went into the bank or signed any documents. I met the mortgage adviser and as I was staff she advised me how to meet the criteria.They increased my salary by adding my bonuses and overtime into my basic salary. Also they got me to sign the application for the mortgage for my partner and myself. 

I was let go as part of the restructuring of the bank itself. I feel though that i have been wronged as I was told to sign my partners singature by the mortgage advisor which is illegal so I am wondering if I kicked up a fuss what would happen. The mortgage is in negative equity of about 130k.

Not sure what people will make of this situation


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## Jim2007 (1 May 2012)

Exactly how did they force you to do all this and why did you not report it to the Garda at the time?...


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## mf1 (1 May 2012)

Satine said:


> I really don't think that is very constructive. The banks used all sorts of shortcuts (at the very least!) - we know that - and if one is in financial difficulty, or negative equity, why not explore any or all ways of improving one's situation? 'Home to roost' is the phrase that comes to mind.



One would be better off considering what the OP has done to contribute to their own woes!

Where do we start? 

Forgery? 

I can just see the OP in front of a High Court Judge explaining how they got themselves into this pickle. 

OP would be far better engaging with Bank to see what they can about re-structuring loan.

mf


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## 44brendan (1 May 2012)

Whatever about the facts that the money was borrowed by OP, the nature of the procedures that were employed by the Bank was totally incorrect and should be addressed as such. As a Banker I don't accept responses as valid that "you got the money & therefore should pay it back" . Banks are required to be professional & responsible in advising clients (including own staff) and if the advise and the documentation is fraudulent or otherwise incorrect, the client is fully entitled to use this issue as a defense in not being in a position to meet their lending obligations. 
Get copies of all this documentation and go to a good solicitor with it. Explain the circumstances under which the documents were completed & the solicitor will address this directly with the Bank. I am apalled at some of the poor lending practises that were tolerated by Banks and this has in no small way contributed towards the major debt problems now being encountered by many.


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## wbbs (1 May 2012)

I presume though when you accepted the mortgage your partner signed all the documents in front of a solicitor so at that stage they knew what they were doing.  If not then it is an odd case.   

Would never condone anyone forging a signature but forms were occasionally brought home by customers for the other party to fill and sign and I have seen cases where the bank have picked up on different signature on the mortgage application compared to the ones that come in on the cheque requisition from the solicitor and explanations were sought.


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## ajapale (1 May 2012)

Title expanded from What to do with mortage? to Redundant from Fin Inst. Staff advisor showed how to inflate earnings. Any comeback?

Let me know if this is ok.

aj
Moderator


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## Billy Baltic (1 May 2012)

It appears the OP didn't have a problem with the way the loan was obtained or spent until they were made redundant. Surely any attempt to raise it at this stage will be seen for what it is, sour grapes.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 May 2012)

Hi Ireland1

I don't think you should have any comeback here at all. 

You were, presumably, looking to borrow a large amount? You worked with them in putting your bonuses into your basic salary.  You have no grounds for complaint at all.

If you forged your partner's signature without her knowledge, then she could have a case against you. 

If you forged her signature with her approval, then she has no case either. 

Brendan


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## Jim2007 (1 May 2012)

Satine said:


> I really don't think that is very constructive. The banks used all sorts of shortcuts (at the very least!) - we know that - and if one is in financial difficulty, or negative equity, why not explore any or all ways of improving one's situation? 'Home to roost' is the phrase that comes to mind.



As I see it the OP colluded with a mortgage advisor to default a bank and on top of that forged their partner's signature on the documents to do so... and now when it all goes wrong they expect the taxpayer to foot the bill!  Give me a break..


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## DB74 (1 May 2012)

ajapale said:


> Title expanded from What to do with mortage? to Redundant from Fin Inst. Staff advisor showed how to inflate earnings. Any comeback?
> 
> Let me know if this is ok.
> 
> ...



The thread title should be

"Got a big mortgage from bank. I forged a signature and lied about my earnings. How can I weasel out of the mortgage now?"

Then the thread should be locked


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## CadillacMan (1 May 2012)

No mercy shown by posters here.

Quite possibly OP was young, taking out first mortgage, on basic salary and given the impression that "everyone else is doing it".  

Forgery issue aside, I agree with 44Brendan's stance that banks should have been more "professional & responsible" in their lending practices and approach to clients.

My spouse and I were in our early 30's and therefore cautious in our approach to obtaining a mortgage.  We ran a mile from a broker on Grafton Street who suggested we add bonuses to salary, overstate bonus percentages, etc.  Despite this we still got stung in so far as we were influenced negatively by a branch advisor regarding taking out a tracker mortgage.  Now paying hundreds more per month for the advice.


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## itsallwrong (1 May 2012)

It takes two to tango buddy. 
And there was a very full dance floor in this country up until the finals of 2009. 
OP, you voluntarily assited in digging your own hole in the ground. 
No gun was put to your head.
Is it unreasonable that you take it like a man?

And welcome to AAM by the way.


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## drs (1 May 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> It takes two to tango buddy.
> And there was a very full dance floor in this country up until the finals of 2009.
> OP, you voluntarily assited in digging your own hole in the ground.
> No gun was put to your head.
> ...



Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter


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## CadillacMan (1 May 2012)

drs said:


> Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter



Drs - Are you seriously agreeing with itsallwrong or are you taking the proverbial?


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## drs (1 May 2012)

CadillacMan said:


> Drs - Are you seriously agreeing with itsallwrong or are you taking the proverbial?



I find some of itsallwrong's ideas quite intriguing and I was looking to add their newsletter to my subscriptions. I subscribe to many fine periodicals on all sides of the spectrum in order to ensure that I have a balanced view of the world.


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## itsallwrong (2 May 2012)

The last publication was 'Come Borrowing'. That's now cancelled due to lack of viewers.

ahhhnd we are back on topic gentlemen.
I got dropped out of the proverbial contest around the same time. But I don't whine and blame anyone else.

'I feel though that i have been wronged as I was told to sign my partners singature ' *Priceless!!!*

CadillacMan, well spotted that there is no mercy being shown here. This board is jammed with genuine stories of people who are really in deep.
The OP talks of 'they' as if they are some mind controlling evil genius.

He is desperately hoping he can offload his bad judgement and expects the taxpayer (that's you and me by the way) 
to foot the bill for his lack of foresight and complete naivety. He is going about it backwards trying the blame game. The country is in NE. 
He got laid off and has a mortgage - so do thousands more like him. 
Poor lending practices were common but equally poor judgement and vision was shown by borrowers.
It was not all the naughty banks fault. There were naughty boys and girls too.


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## drs (2 May 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> 'I feel though that i have been wronged as I was told to sign my partners singature ' *Priceless!!!*



But not exactly unimaginable.



itsallwrong said:


> It was not all the naughty banks fault. There were naughty boys and girls too.



Yes there were some naughty boys and girls, but not all the boys and girls were naughty, some were inexperienced, some were fools, and some were sheep. IMHO, it can be hard to tell in hindsight which anyone was, but if you have some tricks up your sleeves perhaps that would make a fine new newsletter.


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## drs (2 May 2012)

drs said:


> But not exactly unimaginable.
> Yes there were some naughty boys and girls, but not all the boys and girls were naughty, some were inexperienced, some were fools, and some were sheep. IMHO, it can be hard to tell in hindsight which anyone was



The only acid test I know is one that the borrower can take for themselves... not much use to those of us watching from the sidelines... my test is this:

Did you put the correct figures down for your earnings and expenses on the mortgage application form?

If the answer is yes, then you are a good boy/girl-thingy.

If the answer is no, then you are a naughty boy/girl-thingy.

If the answer is the advisor/broker filled in the form for me and I just signed it, then the test is inconclusive with respect to morality... many people cannot read legalese, many people cannot add, multiply or subtract, many people assume the advisor/broker only does the right thing... so you are either a naughty boy/girl-thingy or a stupid boy/girl-thingy.

The OP is in the third bucket, so they are either bad or stupid...

However, for the OP there is one thing that they should keep in mind: "Ignorance is no defense in the eyes of the law."

So while I might have some sympathy for the OP for being inexperienced/fool/sheeplike especially as this was likely their first transaction in the property market, my sympathy counts for nothing if they end up relying on the law for their defense.

From my one experience in court, that's a coin toss at the best of times... and you don't want to be playing with a coin that's weighted against you by the most trivial of precident


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## p15574 (2 May 2012)

Is this totally unrelated?

Mother of five who forged bills in bid to keep her family home spared jail
http://www.independent.ie/national-...keep-her-family-home-spared-jail-3096803.html


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