# Index-tracking PRSAs with 0% contribution fee.



## ThomasB (13 Jan 2007)

Hi all,

First post here, thanks to all members of AAM for posting such useful advice which has been of great benefit to me over the past few months.

I have been doing some research about PRSAs as I am unhappy with my current provider, Ark Life, due to 5% contribution charges and funds with lacklustre performance.

Like others on this site, I have decided I want to invest all my PRSA in index-tracking funds and I want to avoid the 5% contribution charge.

I have found a broker who is willing to give advice on a fee basis (as opposed to commission).

I have trawled through many posts in this section, including SPC100's excellent thread entitled "Advice on Cheap PRSA, ~100 per cent equity, Tracking Global indices"

However, much of the information in that thread is now quite old.  I can only find two PRSA products which are currently offering index tracking funds: New Ireland and Irish Life.

Problem is, my broker says New Ireland will not offer that product on a nil commission basis (i.e. they will not knock off the 5%).  The Irish Life product is available with 0% contribution fee, but the management fee is 1.35%, which, according to my calculations, would end up being half-way between 0%/1% and 5%/1% in terms of charges.

Would appreciate any advice on what I should do, either a way that I can access the New Ireland product on a nil-commission basis, or details of any other providers offering index-tracking PRSAs that I've missed.

Certainly it points to a severe lack of competition in the sector if Irish Life can get away with charging 1.35% management fee on an index tracker...


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## CCOVICH (13 Jan 2007)

Using a broker may allow you to reduce the contribution charge.  I'm afraid I can recommed any.


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## Cameo (13 Jan 2007)

Not sure how much you're contribution is or whether you are talking about single or regular premium.

However, assuming your contribution is big enough would be very suprised if you can't get 100% and 1% FMC, unless you are investing in something unusual. 

I would be asking the broker questions as to wht he can't find you a better deal on a nil commission basis.


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## DirtyH2O (13 Jan 2007)

Hibernian offer a non standard PRSA with 100% allocation, 1% mngt and no bid/offer spread and a choice of 20+ funds from HIM, BOI and Irish Life. I think it is called something like Choice0. There are possibly other companies with similar offerings.


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## ThomasB (14 Jan 2007)

Hi all,
Thanks for the very useful replies.  Responding to a few queries:



> Using a broker may allow you to reduce the contribution charge.


That's what I hoped when I engaged a broker!  He's quite happy to provide advice on a nil-commission basis, but he says that New Ireland won't play ball.



> Not sure how much you're contribution is or whether you are talking about single or regular premium.


Regular premium of ~€600 (max for my age bracket), transfer of ~€6000.  I realise I'm not exactly premium business!



> Hibernian offer a non standard PRSA with 100% allocation, 1% mngt and no bid/offer spread and a choice of 20+ funds from HIM, BOI and Irish Life.


Problem is they don't offer index tracker funds, or at least that's what they said when I asked them over the phone.  As modest as my contributions are, I really don't want to have my pension fund at the mercy of fund managers trying to be smart.



> If you are not doing 1k per month, than 5% looks like the lowest rate they offer. I don't believe your advisor and get any better than this. I don't know if the pension providers would strike a special deal with you, but it can't hurt to ask your advisor.


True, and I'll get back to him.  I told him that I was only interested in 0% contribution charge, and he said that it wasn't possible, but even if they offer 2% that would be (marginally) better than a 1.35% management fee (if my spreadsheet calcs are correct!)



> I also note that irish life have some loyalte payments that may mitigate slightly against the high charge.


I did look at the loyalty payments and they seem relatively insignificant and more of a marketing gimmick than offering real savings.

I'll also call one or two of the execution-only brokers to see if they can get me what I want, but if not I think I'll follow SPC100's advice and go with Irish Life and wait until a more competitive product comes along.

I've been through the pension board's list and it really seems like only two providers offer index trackers with PRSAs: New Ireland and Irish Life.  Let's hope some new entrants come in and shake the market up!


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## F. Kruger (15 Jan 2007)

Is a Personal Pension with Quinn Life an option?


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## ThomasB (19 Jan 2007)

F. Kruger said:


> Is a Personal Pension with Quinn Life an option?


I like Quinn Life's products, and indeed have taken out a regular investment scheme with them (their Freeway product).

However, as far as I'm aware, the advantage with PRSA's is that by their very nature you can transfer between providers very easily, and the providers can't charge you for this.  This doesn't necessarily apply to personal pensions.

I want the flexibility to switch providers in the (possibly futile) hope that in the future we'll have some new entrants in the Irish market who don't charge exorbitant fees, like what's happened with online savings accounts, and what Quinn Life have done for investment options.  Well, I can dream!


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## Guest126 (19 Jan 2007)

Thomas

Do you want to set-up an index tracker with New Ireland on 0% contribution charge and 1% fund management charge?

If that is what you want, please let me know.

I will see if I can set-up such a policy for a fixed fee of €250 + VAT.

Thanks.


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## Ron_H (19 Jan 2007)

Have you considered Eagle Star range of sector funds?  I understand that La brokers were offering access to those funds on a Nil Commission basis i.e. saving of 5% (for €150 or thereabouts)


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## ThomasB (20 Jan 2007)

Ron_H said:


> Have you considered Eagle Star range of sector funds?  I understand that La brokers were offering access to those funds on a Nil Commission basis i.e. saving of 5% (for €150 or thereabouts)



Hi Ron_H, thanks for the reply.  According to LABrokers, they only offer the 0%/1% deal on the Standard PRSA product, which does not offer access to any index tracking funds.

EagleStar do seemingly offer access to UK, European and Japanese index funds, but not under their Standard PRSA (details [broken link removed] - in fact it's not clear under what PRSA product they offer the index trackers.  Anyway, it's irrelevent as I would like the option of investing in an Irish stock index tracker (call me mad, given current climate, but there you go!), which EagleStar don't offer.



CapitalCCC said:


> Thomas
> 
> Do you want to set-up an index tracker with New Ireland on 0% contribution charge and 1% fund management charge?
> 
> If that is what you want, please let me know.


PM sent!


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## futisle (26 Feb 2007)

I'm a bit behind here (~a month) but I'd be very interested in a PRSA with 100% allocation, 1% FMC and one which tracks indicies, like ThomasB seems to have found. Problem is that I can find no info on such a fund on the new ireland website. Is this info on the website? Perhaps its not, I'd just like to be sure before having to resort to ringing them. Could anyone confirm if this info is on the net or not?

CapitalCCC, is that offer open to everyone?


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## Guest126 (27 Feb 2007)

Sorry futisle but New Ireland were not able to set-up on that basis for me.


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## futisle (27 Feb 2007)

> Sorry futisle but New Ireland were not able to set-up on that basis for me.


Thanks for the reply CapitalCCC. Looks like I'll have to look at going with irish life until a better product comes along.


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## ClubMan (27 Feb 2007)

Have you tried 

www.labrokers.ie
www.prsas.ie
[broken link removed]


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## futisle (27 Feb 2007)

> Have you tried
> 
> www.labrokers.ie
> www.prsas.ie
> [broken link removed]



Waiting on further info from 2, must look in to the third. Thanks ClubMan
[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan (27 Feb 2007)

There may be others.


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## ThomasB (5 Mar 2007)

Futisle, I can't find details of index tracker funds on the New Ireland website (although that's not to say it's not there -- their website really is appallingly designed...)

It must have been my broker who mentioned New Ireland to me.  Unfortunately he's gone AWOL so I'm still taking a 5% hit each month and inertia is getting the better of me...

It must say something about the lacklustre offerings of Irish PRSA providers that the cheapest deal on index-tracking PRSA's is a 1.35% management fee...

Do post here if you've any further information as I wouuld be really interested...


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## ClubMan (5 Mar 2007)

include index trackers. Not sure if the also offer some or all of these as pension funds though.


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