# Rights concerning Deposit



## Dots1982 (11 Aug 2008)

hi all

I have moved out of a apt recently and the landlord has refused to return the deposit citing there is 1709 euro worth of a damage done. The apt is in almost perfect nick, no damage to chairs, beds, doors or other furnishings. The landlord is offering us an email showing the breakdown of the 1709, surely the landlord is obligated to show us receipts accounting for the 1709??

Can anyone advise?

thanks

Eoin


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## aircobra19 (11 Aug 2008)

I would be interested in hearing how "in almost perfect nick" = €1709 

Get the email and see whats in it anyway. You can ask for the reciepts later.


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## Dots1982 (11 Aug 2008)

Can anyone provide a more definite strategy of what I can do in this case? Surely there is plenty of people who have being through this type of extortion.

It has being suggested to me to take the case to the Private Residential Tenancies Board: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...ng-a-home/private_residential_tenancies_board

Does anyone have any experience with this body?

The below is a very brief outline of the landlord's obligations when it comes to deposits from the website.

Deposits
As a landlord you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if 
the tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving. 
you have been left with outstanding bills (i.e., public utilities) or rent. 
the tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear. 

Arising out of this I have certain questions?

- Does anyone know the definition of normal wear and tear? Is it anything outside of wilful damage and breakage? The TV the landlord provided me with broke, I didn’t repair it as we were not responsible for it breaking (there was no abuse of the TV set) and I just used my own one.  As the 1709 euro figure is so ridiculously inflated I would say there is a fair chance the landlord just bought a new T.V. Is this allowed in this case?
- Regarding the outstanding bills, it is possible that the landlord is using the deposit to pay the bin charges and TV licence that I never paid in my time 2+ yrs in the house. I was not presented with notice of them from the landlord during my time in the house. Does the landlord have to mention these specifically on the lease that the tenant is expected to pay them?
- I gave the landlord the necessary months notice that I was moving from the apt. The landlord then suggests that I move out earlier as it makes things square with the rent if you get what I mean. I agreed. Surely I’m in no danger of breaking rule 1 above because of this. The Notice of moving out was completely oral anyway.
- Lastly I had to get the exterminators in during my stay in the place. I took the amount it costed off the rent for that month informing the landlord I expected her to pay. She didn’t argue so that was that I thought. I presume I was well within my rights to do so.


OK, that’s all I can think of, Any useful help is greatly appreciated. In the meantime I will ask the landlord to provide me with the breakdown of the 1709 euro.

Thanks again


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## moneyhoney (12 Aug 2008)

Is this any help?

[broken link removed]

No harm giving Threshold a call anyway.


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## Dots1982 (13 Aug 2008)

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Hi all

Here the landlords breakdown of the 1709 euro shes incurred. I have some questions I have put in italics as its quite a long post so they stand out.

[/FONT]*Details below as requested.

Professional Cleaners due to the state apartment was left in €300
Repainting of small bedroom (includes purchase of materials) €100
Replacement of bath/shower unit in main bathroom €699
Replacement for broken TV €400
Replacement of broken crockery €50
Replacement of cutlery €30
Replacement of broken iron €30
Replacement of broken hoover (as a result of been continoulsy used without a hoover bag) €100

All personal belongings were not cleared from apartment. As you can see from the above, the apartment was certainly
not returned in good substantial and reasonable repair and condition, as required by your lease. 

*In my opinion its a crock for the reasons below:
*
Professional Cleaners due to the state apartment was left in €300

*The house was in a very clean condition on my departure. Unfortuntely I took no pictures to back this up frankly for the reason that I saw no need, does anyone know whether _I would need pictures if I brought this case before the PRTB or would the burden be on the landlord to prove it was dirty with visual evidence?_ My suspicion with this is that the cleaners were hired to clean up behind the washing machine, presses etc, we had a rat problem, I caught the rat in a trap and  got the Landlord to pay the extermination fees. The landlord promises to come in and check behind the presses for what would be no doubt some pretty disgusting filth but never bothered. Methinks she hatched this plan instead.

* Repainting of small bedroom (includes purchase of materials) €100
 Replacement of bath/shower unit in main bathroom €699*

This was my housemates part of the apt, I haven't talked to him about these expenses, but the shower was defenitely not broken, I don't know what was wrong with it that the landlord felt the need to replace.. I will reserve judgement beyond that until I talk to him.

* Replacement for broken TV €400

*The TV broke and we didn't repair it, I have a few questions about this?
_Is it the reponsibility of the tenant to fix an appliance in the house if the appliance broke without being abused? Does it depend on the lease whether the product was under warranty or some other terms of reference?
_
Secondly the landlord just bought a replacement, there is no indication that they tried to have the TV fixed, _surely they are expected to try this before buying replacements?_

* Replacement of broken crockery €50
 Replacement of cutlery €30
*
€80 euro for about 1 burnt saucepan 2 broken plates, 3 broken glasses & a few damaged knifes and forks on account of the dodgy dishwasher she supplied us with.....seems fair
* Replacement of broken iron €30
 Replacement of broken hoover (as a result of been continoulsy used without a hoover bag) €100*

The Iron could iron and the hoover could suck up stuff, These two costs probably annoy me the most even though they weren't the largest costs as they are a complete sham. I would guess they might be an ad in the buy and sell flogging a lot of these "broken" appliances.  
Anyway thanks for any feedback you can provide me with, specifically do I have a case or not for the PRTB? Thanks to the previous poster for the info on Threshold aswell.

cheers

Eoin


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## aircobra19 (13 Aug 2008)

What contents were listed on the lease?

Did you not walk through the house with the landlord and discuss all these issues then? That was the time to agree and if there were problems to start taking photos to appeal it and take a case to the PRTB. 

Was the TV new at the start? Why did you not get it repaired if you used it. Or why not ask the landlord to take it away and use your own?

Cleaning I don't know about. People have different opinions on how clean a place is. If you'd gone over the house with the landlord you'd would have been able to discuss this with her. I think photos is the way to go, theres too many arguments about this. At least then you could say you returned it to its original state. Which is all they can ask about. On the other side I've had people swear blind the place is spotless when theres dust and grime half an inch thick on every surface. How is someone meant to say either way without any evidience.

Either the shower worked or it didn't. Should have been checked in the handover inspection. Ditto the room, no idea what the original condition was, or what its was on handover. 

What was dodgy about the diswasher? All they do is spray water, how did it break all that stuff. Once it happened you should have reported it and got it fixed, and stopped using it till it was fixed. 

I dunno for a place that was handed back in "almost perfect nick" theres a lot "broken" in that list. Thats said I think the landlord would be entitled to keep some of the deposit for this stuff, but 1700 seems a lot for that list. But it would depend on what was new and the condition of stuff at the start of the lease.


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## rabbits (13 Aug 2008)

I got done in a previous house too on the deposit for fairly abiguous things.  The house was being managed by an agency.  There were 3 professionals living in the place and we looked after it and kept it clean and we had quarterly inspections which never showed up any problems.  We noticed a problem with a couple of the radiators leaking which we reported multiple times and pointed out at each inspection but which were never looked at.  One of the things they fined us on was damage to the carpet at the radiator pipe in the living room!!!!!  Couldn't believe this.  We had reported this many times and they never sent anyone out (they did do this kind of thing, they sent someone out to fix a leaking under the bath). 

They also fined us because the kettle and toaster were not the brand mentioned in the contents list.  Now, they were the exact kettle and toaster that were there when we moved in......we had a lot of our own kitchen stuff so we just stored the landlady's stuff and it didn't see the light of day until it was put back out when we were leaving.  Let that be a lesson to you....don't just notice kettle, toaster on the contents list, also pay attention to any mentioned brand names!!!  

We had scrubbed the place but they still weren't happy so charged us for cleaning.  They even commented on the hall not having been hoovered.  We had hoovered ourselves out the door that morning and the pile was scuffed (not dirtied!) because we had walked on it coming back in the door for the inspection at lunchtime so she commented on that!!!

When they went around the place, they pulled out cupboards, beds etc and noted bits we had honestly missed....like a bit of dust on the skirting board behind the bed....we had hoovered under the bed.  

Couldn't believe it.  Can't remember how much they kept from our deposit but in the end we just walked away as we were getting nowhere with them.


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## plant43 (14 Aug 2008)

I think you should raise a case with the PRTB. From the list of items provided it seems like the landlord would like you to pay for the upkeep of the house which is not what you should be doing. The phrase "normal wear and tear" is important here - if the shower unit needed be replaced because it was 20 years old, then you shouldn't have to pay for that, likewise with the TV/Hoover/Iron. 

Maybe if you threaten the PRTB then the landlord might see sense. It might be possible to compromise. Note that your tenancy doesn't have to be registered with the PRTB for you to take a case with your landlord. You will need to wait a while for your case to be heard though.


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## aircobra19 (15 Aug 2008)

If something stops work through age that should be pretty obvious. 

In fairness if something is obviously damaged though missuse, why should the landlord pay for that?


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## Bungie (22 Aug 2008)

I knew someone in a similar position and they went through the small claims court and got their deposit back.


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## net64 (22 Aug 2008)

I am a landlord and I would never charge for painting after a tenant leaves.That is wear and tear and maintainance to be done by landlord in between lettings unless otherwise agreed between both  parties.
As for the shower these things go over time.I only last year had to replace a shower and the price for unit and install was 400 euro.

I agree that if any items where missing   e.g toaster, kettle, hoover that the tenant would have to replace them. 
I think that your landlord is chancing their arm and should not be let away with it.


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