# Am I misguided in this assumption about rent allowance tennants?



## ShaneyMac

I have a property up for rent at the moment and about 70% of the calls I'm getting to view it are from people asking do I take rent allowance. I'm not sure what to tell them as I don't fully understand how much these tennants are entitled to from the state and where does the rest of the money come from.

My present point of view is that these tennants would be less desireable due to the fact that - 

- If they are on rent allowance, they don't work, and therefore, where do they get the balance of the money, over and above what the state pays them.
- Whilst I'll certainly get the state portion of the rent, I could end up chasing the balance every month from the tennant.

Am I misguided in this assumption about rent allowance tennants?

Any experience/advice greatly appreciated.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				ShaneyMac said:
			
		

> - If they are on rent allowance, they don't work


This is not necessarily the case. See .


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## ariidae

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Are you *sure* it's rent allowance that they are all (70%) asking about? As a professional you can apply for tax relief if your landlord agrees to give his PPS number.


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## redbhoy

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

A friend of mine who rents out some property told me that a single mother with 2 kids can get 1187 per month in rent allowance. He charges 1200 so the woman only needs to make up €13 of a shortfall. 

Id say a lot of the cases the woman isnt a single mother anyhow so there'll be another income there to help her out.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				redbhoy said:
			
		

> A friend of mine who rents out some property told me that a single mother with 2 kids can get 1187 per month in rent allowance. He charges 1200 so the woman only needs to make up €13 of a shortfall.


Do those figures correlate to the rules as outlined here?



> Id say a lot of the cases the woman isnt a single mother anyhow so there'll be another income there to help her out.


Why would you say that?


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Further discussion of the "single mother" rent allowance issue split into a new thread here.


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## dad

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I have a rent allowance tenant, he makes up €15 per week. I have had difficulty in getting this. On the whole, I would not discriminate against rent allowance. It is basically down to the individual. I have had non rent allowance tenants that did not pay up.

Make sure either soc welfare cheques are issued in your name to rented property or to your personal address. Welfare will do this if the tenant agrees. I had a tenant who cashed the rent cheques and spent the money leaving two weeks unpaid for 6 mths.Endless calls,lies,promises and stress before it was made up.


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## ShaneyMac

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Ariidae - Yes - it is rent allowance as opposed to Tax relief on rent.

Clubman - Thanks for the link - from it I see that my potential tennant is entitled to Eur740 per month in Allowance (in Mid-West region). Rent is Eur850 - balance of Eur110 to pay.

Dad - I agree - down to the individual tennant I suppose. Meeting them tonight - we'll see how it goes.


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## Janet

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Bear in mind that social welfare rent allowance is paid in arrears and not advance as most private rents are.


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## deew

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Why not have the rental allowence paid by direct debit,its a shame that so many landlords dont take social welfare ,as there are loads of genuine people looking to live in a nice home ,like all situations there will always be the exceptions but in general they are fine,Its amazing how a landlord can state no social welfare,how long can that stay legal Iwonder,for example if the wording was changed to say no Irish there would be blue murder!! I have phillipino tennants and must say they are the nicest people I have ever met.I also have a friend who rented to professionals and had major problems,so go for it.


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## mikeyny

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				ariidae said:
			
		

> Are you *sure* it's rent allowance that they are all (70%) asking about? As a professional you can apply for tax relief if your landlord agrees to give his PPS number.



what kind of professional do you have to be to to apply for tax relief ?
is it not open to anyone who rents?
you dont need Landlords PPS no to apply for this even though it states on Oasis that 
each reciept for rent must show 
.. landlords name ,address and PPS number ,
..amount of rent you have paid ,
.. preiod of time covered 


let Revenue look for the landlord in question and take it from there , the tenant is entitled to the tax relief .


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Anybody in private rented accommodation can apply for [broken link removed] and doesn't necessarily need the landlord's _PPSN _if they happen to be reticent about providing such details.


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## Ravima

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I've had private tenants and Rent allowance tenants. The private tenant caused no problem, but would not pay rent by standing order - he insisted on paying by cheque in advance. it was a bit of a pain having to collect cheque and then queue up to lodge. 

I had r/a tenant, who phoned one night to complain that dish wawher would not work. I had to show her where the 'on'switch was. nest r/a tenant was a dream, never a problem and she paid rent on time, every week. One week she was unable to get to bank and phoned in a panic to apoligise. next r/a was a total disaster. rent is €13 pw on top of the sw payment. very difficult to collect the €13.

Unfortunately, given my current experience, I will be more wary of r/a in hte future


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				Ravima said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, given my current experience, I will be more wary of r/a in hte future


Why? Because one rent allowance tenant was a problem and another couldn't operate the washing machine? Why do you pin these "problems" on these two tenants being on rent allowance as opposed to something else?


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## murphaph

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I wonder are r/a tenants more likely to be long term than non-r/a ones? Any anecdotal evidence here?


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## markowitzman

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Murphaph in my experience most definitely yes. For this reason at this stage nearly prefer r/a tenants.


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## Trustmeh

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Great thread.  My first rental of a new house was a RA tenant.  I was approached by a neighbour (a nosey one), the builder and the builders Estate Agent.  They said things like, "I would not feel safe living next to them", "The price of your house will go down", "The locals in "small village" are against this".

To say the least I was shocked and disappointed.  Very stressful times for the first few weeks, thinking I was hated for what I saw as simply renting to the best applicant.

Its been 3 months now.  Not a peep out of the so called "Residence Committee". My renter has been perfect, not a bother. And she has put up with a lot of little hiccups that come with a newbie landlord/unfinished new house.  She is a long term renter and I am delighted I stuck to my guns.


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## Ravima

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Clubman:


yes, personal experience is invaluable. Perhaps it si wrong, but there is nothing I can do about my personal feelings, or gut reaction. I agree that it is unfortunate and perhaps I am misjudgig r/a clients, but I am being honest and true to myself. I honestly feel that I can be no other. you and others are free to disagree and perhaps you have more positive views, which you are just as free to express.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I'm just making the point that you seem to be jumping to negative conclusions about all RA tenants on the basis of one bad experience and one minor inconvenience. Obviously you are free to have your own views and rent to who you like but I'm just saying that your conclusion are at best based on patchy evidence and at worst simply based on prejudice.


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## markowitzman

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I think it is fair to say that there is a wide variation of r/a tenants. Some are pretty undesirable but I have had a number of single mothers and the have been far in a way the best tenants I have had. I have to say that my properties are rural and in scenic locations so I get the feeling that tenants are happy to be out of flats in towns and are not going to act the mick. I call regularly to do "maintenance work" (in contract) so I can keep an eye on things. Tenants I think actually appreciate this as I genuinely want to keep them happy. My experience is that private tenants are more demanding.


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## Marcecie

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

i have rented to both private tenants and r/a tenants and must admit I have been very lucky with both but my preference is for r/a especially single mums, they look after the palce and tend to stay long term, I have one that is with me for 6 years with not a problem


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## collie

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I am in the process of evicting my r/a tennant for non payment of rent.
I had to go overseas to work (6 months)and she decide to spend 1 months rent instead of paying it into my account, on my return she promised me she would fix up the arrears as she had to spend it because she was going to a wedding daaaaahhhhhhhh. 
I am giving her two months to pay the arrears before I report her to social welfare and bring her to court.I dont care if it cost me the months rent in court fees I'll persue her for it. She turned out to be a very nasty person and told me complete lies after lies after lies. Im not stating this is because she is on r/a but has she conned me and if possibe the next tennant will not be r/a. 

However if a r/a tennent could provide me with 3 *very* good reference etc. I may consider.

Also a word of warning: dont accept any additional payments from r/a tennants for their partners to live in the property with your knowledge on condition that you dont info Social welfare, happend a collegue of mine and they used it against him !!!!!! be warned.


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## lff12

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				ShaneyMac said:
			
		

> I have a property up for rent at the moment and about 70% of the calls I'm getting to view it are from people asking do I take rent allowance. I'm not sure what to tell them as I don't fully understand how much these tennants are entitled to from the state and where does the rest of the money come from.
> 
> My present point of view is that these tennants would be less desireable due to the fact that -
> 
> - If they are on rent allowance, they don't work, and therefore, where do they get the balance of the money, over and above what the state pays them.
> - Whilst I'll certainly get the state portion of the rent, I could end up chasing the balance every month from the tennant.
> 
> Am I misguided in this assumption about rent allowance tennants?
> 
> Any experience/advice greatly appreciated.


 
From a financial perspective the amount paid by the tenant is very tiny (maybe 12 euro a week) so in most cases about 85-90% can be paid directly to you. You can insist with the local helth board that you are paid directly.
If I am not wrong there used to be a tax incentive for renting more than 50% of a place to RA tenants.
So in all honesty they are no different from working tenants.

HOWEVER!

They are going to be there 24x7 so wear and tear on the property will be double the normal amount.
If they do go on to take up a job you can no longer depend on direct payment from the health board.
If they are on the dole there is always a possibility they will be struck off as a lot of wasters sign on the dole with no intention of working to get RA and have a good time etc. (You have to remember that a single person getting both the dole and RA will end up with an income of about 75-80% of what somebody on the minimum wage gets paid for a 40 hour week, which isn't bad for sitting on their arses).
And finally, in my experience, there is a VERY high risk of anti-social bahaviour from RA tenants. In previous rentals my life was made a misery by the noise and anti-social lifestyles of RA tenants living around me. You have to remember that most people who don't work these days aside for reasons of health probably has quite severe problems. In my last place I was the only working tenant in the flat complex (out of 5 flats) and my landlord had to evict 2 guys in 2 years. One guy smashed in all the doors to his flat, tried to kick in another guys door and also tried to break into my place, while the other guy was so filthy and smelly his flat was a health hazard. RA tenants aren't paying with their own money so might be more liable to wreck the place!
The other thing you might want to consider is that you are more likely to be inspected if the tenants are on RA.

If you do go for RA tenants, consider a lone parent - they have responsibilities and so are more likely to be good tenants. I've never seen a lone parent be a bad tenant - its the single adults you need to avoid.
I'm giving this andecdotal evidence as a private tenant who has lived in about 6 different places over 10 years.  Have to say that in future I would prefer not to live around RA tenants as I have found in the past that a very high percentage of the non-single mum RA tenants were people with big behavioural issues.

Cannot fault the single mums though - they are usually delighted to get somewhere nice and as I said above, they are people with responsibilities.  I have had a few as neighbours over the years and they were grand.  About 50% of the single adults however were complete psychos (we had the guards in a few times over several of them, in 2 occasions I've had the police at my door looking for the last tenant - both were single males on the dole, and these were in different places!)

I'd say use your instincts and if you get a bad feeling about somebody then trust your instincts.  If they can provide references then fair enough.  About 1/3 of all private tenants are on RA so you will get a lot of calls.

Generally landlords who don't take RA do so because they don't pay tax and don't want to risk detection!  Its not that they don't want the tenants because they are on welfare.


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## Peadar

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I must say I have a Rent Allowance Tenant for 6 months and she has been the model tenant. House is kept very clean and never any problems with rent or complaints. She is a single mother by the way.

The most important thing with any tenant is that you get references, research your tenant and that you are happy with their character. Don't ever accept someone your not fully happy with as this can come back to haunt you. 

Your better off doing without rent for a month than chasing tenants later on for rent and repairs.

Peadar


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## nedser

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I am considering renting out my apartment, however I have not been an owner occupier for 5 years and there will be a claw back of stamp duty if I do so, therefore if I rent it out I intend to be non tax compliance for the first year in order to avoid the claw back.  Is there a requirement if you receive rental allowance from a tenant you must be tax compliant  - also do you run an increased risk of being caought by the tax authorities?


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## Howitzer

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				nedser said:
			
		

> Is there a requirement if you receive rental allowance from a tenant you must be tax compliant - also do you run an increased risk of being caought by the tax authorities?


 
Well there certainly should be. 

I would say you would almost certainly get caught. Even if you're renting to regular tenants once they apply for their rent relief you'll be nabbed.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				nedser said:
			
		

> I am considering renting out my apartment, however I have not been an owner occupier for 5 years and there will be a claw back of stamp duty if I do so, therefore if I rent it out I intend to be non tax compliance for the first year in order to avoid the claw back.  Is there a requirement if you receive rental allowance from a tenant you must be tax compliant  - also do you run an increased risk of being caought by the tax authorities?


Don't you have to be registered with the _PRTB _to rent your property? In which case presumably there will be a greater chance of being caught out for the _SD _clawback. Just pay your tax liabilities.


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## nedser

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I know - that is what I would prefer to do - if i could afford too.  I am moving to UK for 2-3 years.  I can not avail of the rent a room relief or mortgage interest relief because I will not be owner occupier.  I can not not rent out it out because of Stamp duty claw back. I am reluctant to rent out for fear of being caught (everyone I talk too tells me I'm cazy and won't get caught!) however am facing prospect of paying rent in UK and my mortgage in Ireland and the risk I'm being told is worth taking. I dont want to sell the apartment.


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## Howitzer

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



			
				nedser said:
			
		

> I dont want to sell the apartment.


 
Why not? Bag your profit, tax free, and invest in something with low transaction costs until you're in a position to buy again.

Being non tax compliant is a completely false economy. How would you feel if the value of your property fell by 20%, your tenants trashed the place, and revenue hit you with a bill for 30K (tax + fines + interest) in 2/3 years time? 

I bet all those people who got advise from NIB in the 80's to stick their cash in off shore accounts don't feel to good about the "good" advise they received back then.


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## bearishbull

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Rent allowance is paid to people on disability allowance and not just on single mothers and the work shy,most on disability would be very quiet/good tenants.A friend of mine has mental health problems(not violent or anything just quiet,highly educated/intelligent guy) and he has terrible trouble getting a place with rent allowance in dublin,he only gets 160euro a week which barely gets a bedsit/flat.


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## sideshow bob

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

Hi

I have had the same social welfare assisted tennants now for 3 nearly 4 years and found the whole experience to be a good one. 
The agreement is between you and the tennant not the Social Welfare so they don't just send anyone to your property YOU choose the tennant and You can vet them.
Ask for all the usual reference etc and insist that your payments go through on direct debit. I recieve payment on the last Tuesday of each month and its like clockwork. This covers the mortgage and the tennant pays the differnce into a bank account.
And as the previous poster mentioned the tennant will frequently have a partner living in or contributing to the house on the QT so the balance paid by them sholudn't be a priblem and if it ever is be very firm that you will have to review the contract.

The only problem i had was when the tennant didn't renew the required forms on time and 2 payments were missed. I got a contact in the Welfare form the tennant to follow it up and they couldn't be more helpful and all arrears were paid promptly.
All the Best


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## Trustmeh

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

how often do they need to be renewed?


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## Marcecie

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

do you mean the pink forms? they have to be filled in twice a year usually march and Sept, I always remind the tenants in time to get the forms to me so have no problems with late payments then


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## collie

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

Reference my last post on my rent allowance tenants,

Guess what she did a bunk with the last months health board cheque, thier is nothing the health board or the social welfare can do. can you believe it. 

Currenty renting the property and looking for 3 references, deposit and rent in advance and finding it difficult, as 95% are on rent allowance.

She owes a fortune on utilty bills, thank goodness they were in her name and not mine.


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## RainyDay

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



			
				collie said:
			
		

> Guess what she did a bunk with the last months health board cheque,


The cheque would have been made out to you and crossed, right?


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## z107

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



> The cheque would have been made out to you and crossed, right?



Same thing happened to a friend of mine. These cheques are generally made out to the tenant.

The Social Welfare wasn't interested in the fact that this tenant had defrauded them. Indeed, the tenant moved into a council house. It was a bonus to buy their white goods with I suppose.

Friend put it down to bad experience.


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## collie

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



			
				umop3p!sdn said:
			
		

> Same thing happened to a friend of mine. These cheques are generally made out to the tenant.
> 
> The Social Welfare wasn't interested in the fact that this tenant had defrauded them. Indeed, the tenant moved into a council house. It was a bonus to buy their white goods with I suppose.
> 
> Friend put it down to bad experience.


 

My god, am I that friend, exact same case as mine.

Health centre refused to make cheque out to me and said thier deal was with the tenant and what she did with the cheque after they gave it to her was not really thier concern although the were sorry for my loss.I wrote to the minister for social welfare reference this matter and it is under investigation but I cant print much more than that..... Be warned all the rights are with these peolpe and not you as a landlord.


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## Erica

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

I am in receipt of rent allowance and i have been finding it hard to find accommodation as i am a single parent. I have one week left where i am currently living and i have applied to at least 12 different landlords. They seemed keen until i told them i had a child but they said that the reason was they didn't accept rent allowance, but on one of the houses that i had viewed i found out that a single lad from my area had been given a 2 year lease. It enrages me as i am a responsible person and i have a very respectful daughter and it is frustrating when you are refused a home because of this. I also found out that this lad had been asked to leave by his previous landlord because of the trouble he was bringing to the area.


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## z108

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



Erica said:


> ...but they said that the reason was they didn't accept rent allowance...




I dont understand this point. From my read of the thread the tenant is given a cheque from the health board for rent allowance (and some landlords complained that the tenant left with unpaid bills and pocketed the cheque for themselves).
Therefore how does the landlord know whether you are receiving rent alowance or not when you have the option of cashing it in and paying in cash?


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## Klesser

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

Sign, because the landlord has to sign a form for the healthboard.


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## z108

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



Klesser said:


> Sign, because the landlord has to sign a form for the healthboard.



Ah yes of course 


But does the tenant have to tell the landlord they are rent allowance tenants when being interviewed for the tenancy ? It would appear to be a clear case of discrimination 
Cant they spill the beans after moving in


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## jd28

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

I have a small query if anybody can help. Often enough I accept s/w which I have no problem with but here's the thing more often than not the tenant will ask me to fill out a reduced rent figure on the s/w form as they say this is the only way they can get allowance IE: a young girl with one kid wont be entertained for a three bed semi and unless the s/w see its only costing her 1000 as apposed to 1200 its a no no. I usually have no problem doing this as s/w or not I go through a good vetting period before renting to a tenant and I usually end up coming across someone decent. The lease agreement is filled out for the full amount as is the prtb form so I'm not trying to avoid any responsibilities, can anybody see if this could cause problems and how.


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## jennie2007

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

i am only recently separated from my child s father , after been in a realationship for seven years . i am finding it increasingly difficult to set up home with my son , as i am only a first time renter , and would need the assistance of rent allowance , which in most of the houses ive enquired about do not accept.
i think it is understandable , that people have there doubts and that there are some bad eggs out there , but i really think landlords should meet the person first and go on there instincts , instead of shunning them off on the phone ?

has anyone any advice for me ?


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## Trustmeh

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

Dont de discouraged. There are plenty of landlords out there that will be happy to work with RA. You will probably meet many more landlords that will refuse you at the first hurdle so when you meet one that will accept RA you need to make it count. They will be in high demand and you will be competing against many other RA tenants.

My advice from the landlords POV:

1. First impressions are crucial; be in a nice mood when you make that first call. It may be the only chance to make an impression on the landlord. The way the market is now landlords can be choosy - if they dont like the sound of the tenant they can dismiss them and wait for the next one to come along.

2. Make an appt and stick to it. If you are going to be late, let them know. Landlords are understanding once you communicate - if you dont then they think it will be more of the same when you are tenant.

3. Dress nicely, make an effort. If you actually make it to meeting a landlord then act like its an interview. He will be comparing you to every other tenant he has ever met and will probably make his mind up within a few seconds of your arrival.

4. Dont chance your arm. Seriously, the amount of tenants that come up with crazy stories of how they want to pay, or where they last lived or what they do for a living is unreal. The landlord has heard it all before and can smell a rat in an instant.

5. Be organized. When you arrive have your RA form ready to sign. Bring your PPS number and be ready to sign PRTB documents. If you have a deposit even better - but maybe not essential. I generally find that deposit and key are handed at the same time.

6. As regards to RA then you need to have your ducks in a row. If you have never recieved RA before then it will take a while to process this. Dont expect that the landlord will be willing to accept your word that eventually the COCO will approve your RA and pay him in arrears. You may need to provide the money to cover rent and first month deposit up front while you wait for RA to come through. You landlord has probably been burned before and is once bitten twice shy.

7. Do up a budget. Know what RA are willing to give you. Know what the difference if any this is in cost of rent. Can you afford this rent or will you struggle? Make sure to keep in mind the extra expenses of the tenancy - esb, gas, tv licence, cable tv, bin charges...landlord may cover some of these.  Maybe you need to look for a smaller place.


Good Luck!


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## minion

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

We have a rule that we dont accept RAs under any circumstances.
2 out of my 3 partners have trouble with RA recipients in the past.
So much More trouble than with any other type of tennant that they have left an indelible impression on them.

And the trouble isnt just with the tennant.  Sometimes it was with The RA officers too.  In that they would stop the cheque and the tennant doesnt know why.  Also, when things go wrong RA officers just wash their hands and say 'You're problem'.
Also because most RA tennants are at home all the time and can sleep late, they make noise at unsociable hours, which really annoys other people living around them.
My partners insist that nobody on RA ever sets foot inside the doors of our properties.


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## sam h

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



yankinlk said:


> 6. As regards to RA then you need to have your ducks in a row. If you have never recieved RA before then it will take a while to process this. Dont expect that the landlord will be willing to accept your word that eventually the COCO will approve your RA and pay him in arrears. You may need to provide the money to cover rent and first month deposit up front while you wait for RA to come through. You landlord has probably been burned before and is once bitten twice shy.


 

An excellent list!!  Particularly agree with point 6.  I do take people of s/w RA and has been with mixed success, mostly good.  But I have always insisted that my contaact is with the tenant and rent *must* be paid in advance (RA is paid in arrears)....if they can't do a month in advance + deposit then no go!   

Interestingly, I had a several people asking me to sign the forms for an amount higher than the rent actually was.  I flatly refused saying it was fraud....it would also mean that they would have been pocketing the balance!  Called social welfare as I had names and numbers and they said there was nothing they could do .   

Also, I wonder if there is some scam for getting the forms signed. I had one lady insisting I sign her forms and I said not until I recieved the deposit + first month (if I decided to rent to her).  She was very pushy and kept insisting I sign and said it woudn;t make any difference to me.  Could they be claiming for more than one property or under a false name?


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## gipimann

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



> Also, I wonder if there is some scam for getting the forms signed. I had one lady insisting I sign her forms and I said not until I recieved the deposit + first month (if I decided to rent to her). She was very pushy and kept insisting I sign and said it woudn;t make any difference to me. Could they be claiming for more than one property or under a false name?


 
It may have been that the lady wanted to be sure she qualified for Rent Supplement before paying over money to you - nothing more! Apart from persons claiming under false names (which would require false ID, second PPSN etc), a tenant cannot claim rent supplement more than once at the same time, because rent supplement is paid from a single computer system nationwide. Any Community Welfare Officer can see if their applicant has an existing claim in payment elsewhere.


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## sam h

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



gipimann said:


> It may have been that the lady wanted to be sure she qualified for Rent Supplement before paying over money to you - nothing more!


 
You may be right but I have shown properties to loads of RA people and rented to them and I never had anyone insist like this. She was already in rented accomadation so she knows whe would have qualified and she can always call her SW office and they can clarify. I haven't looked at the form in ages, but I thought the form was only to be signed by the landlord once it was agreed that the person could rent it.

It may have been nothing I just got the feeling there was something up as I didn't think she liked the property as she was viewing it and then suddenly insistied I sign the form.


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## Trustmeh

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

Good point about the SW fraud - but I would tend to agree that is pretty difficult to get away with it. I recently had an RA tenant get all signed up and then moved in with a deposit only. I took her word that the RA would go through eventually and I would be paid in arrears. After two weeks she came to me in tears that she couldnt live in the house (long story about feuding families and gunplay) and was sorry. I assumed (wrongly) that RA would still come through and pay me for the two weeks she was living in the house.  She told me that no, because she would be moving elsewhere (out of the county) that when she applied for RA at the new dwelling the old application would have to be cancelled. I had to keep a portion of her deposit to cover the rent that was not paid. 

I chalked that one down to a life lesson and moved on. It does not mean I am going to shun RA in future, just that I will be more cautious about bending the rules.  Im not gonna be a sucker for the sob stories right from the beginning again.


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## fear peile

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

My opinion and previous experience 

rent allowance tenant, never again !!  
destroyed the place. Was the first and last time.

Never had problems with tenants who earned the rent.


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## Trustmeh

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



fear peile said:


> Never had problems with tenants who earned the rent.




Count yourself lucky. Bad tenants come from all economic classes. I rented to doctors sons once.  A year later they had ruined the kitchen, graffiti'd the entire public area of the house, kicked in doors and turned the neighborhood against me - not to mention never paid the rent fully or on time.


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## glucksmanp

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

How much do single mothers get under the rent allowance scheme?
presumably it is only non workers that get the rent allowance?


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## webtax

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



jd28 said:


> the tenant will ask me to fill out a reduced rent figure on the s/w form as they say this is the only way they can get allowance IE: a young girl with one kid wont be entertained for a three bed semi and unless the s/w see its only costing her 1000 as apposed to 1200 its a no no. The lease agreement is filled out for the full amount as is the prtb form so I'm not trying to avoid any responsibilities, can anybody see if this could cause problems and how.



the revenue and s/w are starting to compare records for rent allowance, which will cause you a problem when they see the two different figures.


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## snuffle

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



fear peile said:


> My opinion and previous experience
> 
> rent allowance tenant, never again !!
> destroyed the place. Was the first and last time.
> 
> Never had problems with tenants who earned the rent.



What would you stance be on tenants who were working and earning the rent themselves, but through no fault of their own became unemployed (redundancy, ill-health, etc) and needed to apply for RA until they could get back to work?  Would you chuck them out or refuse to sign the required forms?

Tenants - no matter their economic background - can be either good or bad tenants, depending on the person themselves.  Some friends of mine  won't entertain the idea of RA tenants at all, and got burned by so called professionals who destroyed their house and had loud parties every night, whereas others are happy to accept tenants so long as they prove themselves to be trustworthy tenants regardless if they're on RA or not.


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## acelou

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*

im a single mother of 3 boys and trying to find private rented accomadation that accepts rent allowance for quite a while now. but havent been able to.   everywhere i look nowhere seems to take rent allowance


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## acelou

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

i know exactly how you feel. im trying to set up a home for me a my 3 sons and as im a first time renter on rent allowance im finding it very difficult for almost all the same reasons as yourself. i think its very unfair.  this response is for jennie2007


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## acelou

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



glucksmanp said:


> How much do single mothers get under the rent allowance scheme?
> presumably it is only non workers that get the rent allowance?


 
it depends on how many children you have when claiming for r/a as a single parent. ive 3 sons so im allowed 1200 a month. when i only had 1 son i was only allowed 968 a month.


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## acelou

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



ShaneyMac said:


> I have a property up for rent at the moment and about 70% of the calls I'm getting to view it are from people asking do I take rent allowance. I'm not sure what to tell them as I don't fully understand how much these tennants are entitled to from the state and where does the rest of the money come from.
> 
> My present point of view is that these tennants would be less desireable due to the fact that -
> 
> - If they are on rent allowance, they don't work, and therefore, where do they get the balance of the money, over and above what the state pays them.
> - Whilst I'll certainly get the state portion of the rent, I could end up chasing the balance every month from the tennant.
> 
> 
> im a single mother and i know that everybody is allowed an amout due to there circumstances. im allowed 1200 as ive 3 sons so if whoever you rent to if there allowed whatever amount your asking of the welfare then they dont have to pay you anything you get the loy of the welfare.
> Am I misguided in this assumption about rent allowance tennants?
> 
> Any experience/advice greatly appreciated.


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## minion

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

I know of a couple of people who let to rent allowance tennants.  Filled in the forms etc only to find out that the rent allowance was not available to the tennant after all.

You can imagine the predicament both tenant and landlord were then in.

Any experience or stories i have of it are to keep well away from rent allowance.  Nothing wrong with the recipients, but its just too messy.


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## gipimann

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



acelou said:


> it depends on how many children you have when claiming for r/a as a single parent. ive 3 sons so im allowed 1200 a month. when i only had 1 son i was only allowed 968 a month.


 
The amounts you've quoted can differ from county to county. The maximum rent limits are included in the following DSFA  document.  If a person applies for Rent Supplement (which is the proper term for the payment - Rent Allowance is a different scheme altogether), and the rent ceiling for their family size is below what a landlord is charging, then the tenant doesn't qualify (there may be odd exceptions to this - e.g. large family requiring extra bedrooms). Might be of use to landlords and tenants reading the thread.

The Maximum Rent Limits, set by the Dept of Social & Family Affairs are reviewed every 18 months. The next review (and new limits) is due in July 2008.


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## murphaph

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



gipimann said:


> The amounts you've quoted can differ from county to county. The maximum rent limits are included in the following DSFA  document.  If a person applies for Rent Supplement (which is the proper term for the payment - Rent Allowance is a different scheme altogether), and the rent ceiling for their family size is below what a landlord is charging, then the tenant doesn't qualify (there may be odd exceptions to this - e.g. large family requiring extra bedrooms). Might be of use to landlords and tenants reading the thread.
> 
> The Maximum Rent Limits, set by the Dept of Social & Family Affairs are reviewed every 18 months. The next review (and new limits) is due in July 2008.



So (correct me if i'm wrong) I have a 3 bed house I'll soon be letting and having spoken to a landlord with lots of property, she tells me you can have disastrous tenants from any background and sw can be fine-everyone's uniqe so I have nothing against sw in principle but if I set the rent at 1200 I can get a 2 child family in but if I set it at 1201 or more I can't? Is that right?


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## nimbus

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

hi
I really need your help, it is very difficult to get landlord's who accept rent allowance. I have a good references from 2 landlord's, both have sold up and moved abroad, I llive in cork with my mother and brothers and I have a toddler. Is there anybody out there in douglas, grange, blackrock who would rent me a two bed or three bed house. I am a very careful tenant and would appreciate any replies. thank youvery much.
nimbus


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## gipimann

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



murphaph said:


> So (correct me if i'm wrong) I have a 3 bed house I'll soon be letting and having spoken to a landlord with lots of property, she tells me you can have disastrous tenants from any background and sw can be fine-everyone's uniqe so I have nothing against sw in principle but if I set the rent at 1200 I can get a 2 child family in but if I set it at 1201 or more I can't? Is that right?


 
In a nutshell, yes, you're right.   If the rent charged is greater than 1200 per calendar month (assuming you're in the greater Dublin Area), the tenant will not qualify for Rent Supplement.   Bear in mind that the tenant may be refused Rent Supplement for reasons other than the amount of rent charged by you (e.g. their income).

The maximum rent limits will be reviewed from July 2008.


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## murphaph

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



gipimann said:


> In a nutshell, yes, you're right.   If the rent charged is greater than 1200 per calendar month (assuming you're in the greater Dublin Area), the tenant will not qualify for Rent Supplement.   Bear in mind that the tenant may be refused Rent Supplement for reasons other than the amount of rent charged by you (e.g. their income).
> 
> The maximum rent limits will be reviewed from July 2008.



I presume this is open to abuse and landlords often sign the RS forms to state the rent is (say) 1200 when it's actually (say) 1300?


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## gipimann

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

Yes, it has been done, although it is an offence to give false or misleading information (stated on the application form for rent supplement).

CWOs will have a good idea of the levels of rent in their area so may well spot an artificially lowered amount fairly quickly.

If a landlord were to reduce the amount on the form (using your figures as an example rent 1300, stated 1200), any rent supplement the tenant receives is based on 1200 and the tenant would have to make up the €100 pcm difference.  If the tenant is on Social Welfare, this might be difficult for them to do and lead to rent arrears.


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## murphaph

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



gipimann said:


> Yes, it has been done, although it is an offence to give false or misleading information (stated on the application form for rent supplement).
> 
> CWOs will have a good idea of the levels of rent in their area so may well spot an artificially lowered amount fairly quickly.
> 
> If a landlord were to reduce the amount on the form (using your figures as an example rent 1300, stated 1200), any rent supplement the tenant receives is based on 1200 and the tenant would have to make up the €100 pcm difference.  If the tenant is on Social Welfare, this might be difficult for them to do and lead to rent arrears.


Yes, fair points indeed. Unfortunately for RS recipients it appears difficult to find accomodation in many areas that can be covered solely by the RS payment. 

I would like to get on the RAS scheme. I know it has its disadvantage but my own circumstances would benefit from the guaranteed 'bankable' income for the term of the contract. I believe the best way onto the scheme is to have a SW tenant in your place already in receipt of RS.

I may just have to let the house for the 1200 which isn't far off the market rate and I suppose with the glut of rentals available in D15 it will rent out that bit faster.


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## AHEN

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*



ShaneyMac said:


> I have a property up for rent at the moment and about 70% of the calls I'm getting to view it are from people asking do I take rent allowance. I'm not sure what to tell them as I don't fully understand how much these tennants are entitled to from the state and where does the rest of the money come from.
> 
> My present point of view is that these tennants would be less desireable due to the fact that -
> 
> - If they are on rent allowance, they don't work, and therefore, where do they get the balance of the money, over and above what the state pays them.
> - Whilst I'll certainly get the state portion of the rent, I could end up chasing the balance every month from the tennant.
> 
> Am I misguided in this assumption about rent allowance tennants?
> 
> Any experience/advice greatly appreciated.


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## S.L.F

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

What are you trying to say?


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## cleverclogs7

*Re: Rent allowance Tennants*



redbhoy said:


> A friend of mine who rents out some property told me that a single mother with 2 kids can get 1187 per month in rent allowance. He charges 1200 so the woman only needs to make up €13 of a shortfall.
> 
> Id say a lot of the cases the woman isnt a single mother anyhow so there'll be another income there to help her out.


 
Im on r.a with 2 kids.you get 1,147 a month from s.w and depending on the area(dublin for example) you are alowed 1,200 so...you put the rest to it. just because a person is on r.a doesnt mean the person isnt working.a loan parent can work but only a certin amount of hours. we...loan parents (most of us anyway) DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE LOAN PARENTS.and i really hate it when perople look down on us as if we are scum.

i have my r.a paid into my landlords account directly.thats optional.


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## anntionette

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

If it helps I will give you my experience of RA tenants. I have never discriminated and think everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves in their own right, but its a risk you take i guess with any tenant. You have to reduce your risk from the start. I have had 2 single moms with kids on RA 1 was a absolute dream tenant and the other an complete nightmare. Really has made me think twice about letting to another SW recipient. I actually wanted a SW mum after the first girl and I knew this next girl was finding it hard to find someone to take her on with RA I did feel for her and thought she would be a good tenant. I have had to threaten to evict twice in one year for non paymnet of rent and now her renewal is up i have told her I'm not renewing. I made a few calls she owes the ESB 900, the gas (stupidly still in my name, Bord Gais didnt change it as I requested and I never checked up on them , my own fault) nearly a grand she got cut off in aug, moving next month, she owes back rent couple hundred euro, NTL cut her off last month. I will have to pay the gas bill to reconnect for next tenant. and most likely she will not pay next months rent as she will ask the community welfare officer for the payments returned directly to her. I just rang them and they said she can cancel the payments into my account any time she wants and then pay me or not. and although I got a deposit from her you can work out I will be substancially out of pocket. A lesson well learnt and a bad tenant well rid off. I consider myself lucky to be rid of her. She lived with her boyfriend and he was working all year. None of my business but it makes it a little more difficult to be compassionate when your struggling yourself to make mortgage repayments and paying your own bills. In the heal of the hunt I would accept another RA tenant they would have to really impress me tho and I would do a much more detailed back ground check I wouldn't contact their present landlord as they will lie to get rid of them. I would only accept them if they paid 2 months deposit and set up a standing order for their part of the rent. Harsh I know but I am a v fair and good landlord but once bitten twice shy or put another way once bitten twice the deposit please!


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## Steve D

*Re: Rent allowance Tenants*

The most important thing is to ensure that you do not get scumbags who do not pay the rent and mess up your place. You can get these in all walks of life whether they are rent allowance tenants or not!


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