# Mcwilliams making up stories again



## cancan (20 Aug 2008)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...in-as-gaa-leads-to-foreign-field-1459290.html

David - when writing a story, you can't just make up facts to suit yourself.

The only place where there is an uptake in foreign gaa teams due to immigration is in David’s imaginative head.

It must get hard to come up with material to constantly put his country down every week I suppose.

David, we'll happily take you in for our GAA team in the US, but something tells me you'd be more of a cricket man!

If you were smart, you would have listened to your own advice, shorted the irish market, and perhaps now could be doing pro bono work for a real newspaper.


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## ClubMan (20 Aug 2008)

Moved from Mortgages and Buying and Selling Homes.


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## csirl (20 Aug 2008)

What occured to me is that the trend he pointed out could be seasonal.

Students going abroad during the summer months.


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## Fingalian (20 Aug 2008)

GAA Mum????? never heard any GAA player refer to his/her Mam/Ma as Mum !!


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## diarmuidc (20 Aug 2008)

csirl said:


> What occured to me is that the trend he pointed out could be seasonal.
> 
> Students going abroad during the summer months.



Yea, he should have compared to August 2007 to get a realistic picture. Maybe the trend will still be there but why pick January 2008? (Just found [broken link removed], slight increase this year but nothing amazing)

And to the OP, he's hardly "putting the country down". Or are you one of the people who believe McWilliams talked the country into the recession? And how do you know that he *didn't* short the ISEQ?


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## cancan (20 Aug 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> And to the OP, he's hardly "putting the country down". Or are you one of the people who believe McWilliams talked the country into the recession? And how do you know that he *didn't* short the ISEQ?


 
Cos he's still working for the indo, which is the journalistic equivalent of playing football for the aran islands.

He couldn't talk a leaf down off a tree in autumn, never mind an economy.
I just think that when a boy cries wolf 8 years running, then someone spots a wolf, you don't beatify the lad.


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## GeneralZod (20 Aug 2008)

He should have looked at the July 08 and 07 figures. All the data for Aug 08 isn't in on account of the month not being over yet.

Why does McWilliams seem to generate so much resentment?


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## Purple (21 Aug 2008)

GeneralZod said:


> Why does McWilliams seem to generate so much resentment?



Because despite some excellent thinking and the odd excellent piece of writing he comes across as smarmy and gives the impression that he has little of no respect for his audience?


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## Ceist Beag (21 Aug 2008)

GeneralZod said:


> Why does McWilliams seem to generate so much resentment?



Because he insists on categorising everybody into stereotyped groups with what he considers to be funny titles?


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## diarmuidc (21 Aug 2008)

cancan said:


> Cos he's still working for the indo, which is the journalistic equivalent of playing football for the aran islands.
> 
> He couldn't talk a leaf down off a tree in autumn, never mind an economy.
> I just think that when a boy cries wolf 8 years running, then someone spots a wolf, you don't beatify the lad.


I'm not going to defend the Indo (as I pretty much agree with you) however you can't criticise him for calling wolf. Just because the downturn didn't hit until now, doesn't make what he said for the past 8 years wrong.  His fundamental point is that an economic boom fuelled by people selling houses to each other on the back of cheap credit is going to have an unhappy ending. [broken link removed] has an article this week saying pretty much the same.



> Because he insists on categorising everybody into stereotyped groups with what he considers to be funny titles?


Yea that is incredible annoying. A sibling gave me his Generation Game book but I couldn't get past page 30 with all those stereotypes.


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## jhegarty (21 Aug 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> I'm not going to defend the Indo (as I pretty much agree with you) however you can't criticise him for calling wolf. Just because the downturn didn't hit until now, doesn't make what he said for the past 8 years wrong.




I predict the earth will be destroyed by the sun going supernova next year (I won't be wrong, I'll just be a few billion years early).....


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## Welfarite (21 Aug 2008)

Perhaps McW deliberately tries to annoy people? Certainly, that article is a laughable attempt to do so, right down to his "GAA mums" reference, (which is a nod to the phrase "Soccer Moms" in the US, presumably). Look how far Eamonn Dunphy got by annoying people! And how much money he made on the way...


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## MrMan (21 Aug 2008)

Welfarite said:


> Perhaps McW deliberately tries to annoy people? Certainly, that article is a laughable attempt to do so, right down to his "GAA mums" reference, (which is a nod to the phrase "Soccer Moms" in the US, presumably). Look how far Eamonn Dunphy got by annoying people! And how much money he made on the way...



TBH he even looks annoying so he doesn't have to try very hard. Dunphy can be annoying but at least he is entertaining (sometimes), McW looks, sounds, and even reads annoying.


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## Howitzer (21 Aug 2008)

I think there's a fine line between annoying and entertaining. DMcW's foibles and stereotypes are no more or less annoying/entertaining than many other pseudo-celebrities, what appears to me to swing him firmly into the loathed category for many people is the tone and tenor of his message. People don't like to hear negative things. He's appears to have been right but that doesn't really matter.


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## Betsy Og (21 Aug 2008)

Anecodotal evidence "on the ground" is that GAA teams in London are picking up again big time. I played there for a wee bit in '97 but since then many clubs dissappeared for want of players. Now it seems that, where before managers were scouring the place for players, they are picky as to who they want because there are so many.

I wouldnt have thought this was news though, isnt it common knowledge that tradesmen have been leaving in the last, say, 9 months?

p.s. Whats wrong with the Indo (apart from McW of course)? Is this Irish Times snobbery coming to the fore? Surely even if you prize the "paper of record"/"odl lady of d'Olier Street" then the Indo must be the 2nd best paper in Ireland. Now the Sindo I cant stand, Tribune reader.


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## MrMan (21 Aug 2008)

Howitzer said:


> I think there's a fine line between annoying and entertaining. DMcW's foibles and stereotypes are no more or less annoying/entertaining than many other pseudo-celebrities, what appears to me to swing him firmly into the loathed category for many people is the tone and tenor of his message. People don't like to hear negative things. He's appears to have been right but that doesn't really matter.



Taking the was he right or was he wrong so many more times out of it, ne just comes across as very smarmy and his voice and manner just are very unappealling.


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## GeneralZod (21 Aug 2008)

I believe our foremost young(ish) economist David McWilliams is predicting up to a decade of pain for the property market as it adjusts to true value.

Guess we'll see who's right in the next few years.

p.s. The IT is a hugely overrated newspaper. It doesn't compare with truly great papers like the New York Times.


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## Caveat (21 Aug 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> p.s. Whats wrong with the Indo (apart from McW of course)? Is this Irish Times snobbery coming to the fore?


 
I don't think it's as simple as snobbery - personally, I think the _IT_ is just a much better paper in every way.  

And yes, DmcW is annoying - some people just rub others up the wrong way whether they have talent/merit ot not.

Pat Kenny is probably another.


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## TarfHead (21 Aug 2008)

And who was it who put a gun to your head and forced you to read this article, against your will  ?


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## ubiquitous (21 Aug 2008)

Betsy Og said:


> Anecodotal evidence "on the ground" is that GAA teams in London are picking up again big time.


I have heard similar anecdotal evidence of this myself in recent times.



Betsy Og said:


> p.s. Whats wrong with the Indo (apart from McW of course)? Is this Irish Times snobbery coming to the fore?


Too true, i'm afraid. For example, the sort of character who used to lap up Kevin Myers articles when he worked for the IT and who now looks down through their nose at him now that he works for the Indo.


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## ubiquitous (21 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> personally, I think the _IT_ is just a much better paper in every way.



Their editorial style of long, single-paragraph sentences drives me crazy, to be honest.


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## diarmuidc (21 Aug 2008)

jhegarty said:


> I predict the earth will be destroyed by the sun going supernova next year (I won't be wrong, I'll just be a few billion years early).....


Sure. But you don't have half the country claiming that the earth will be viable for ever while critising you for being negative about our future on it! 

Check out this thread what they said and when they said it to remember the great times when nothing could go wrong. (My particular favourite "The really smart and ballsy guys are the guys who are buying when no one else is. .......When you think about it, it makes sense to buy property now. Though of course some people say it always makes sense to buy property. There is no such thing as a good or a bad time to buy. It's always a good time to buy" Brendan O'Connor from that bastion of journalism the Indo 2007)


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## Pique318 (21 Aug 2008)

Unfortunately, mentioning Brendan O'Connor as a journalist, or even worse, quoting from him, has just rendered your whole arguement worthless


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## diarmuidc (21 Aug 2008)

Pique318 said:


> Unfortunately, mentioning Brendan O'Connor as a journalist, or even worse, quoting from him, has just rendered your whole arguement worthless


 But I used it to re-enforce my point about the Indo !!


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## Betsy Og (21 Aug 2008)

diarmuidc said:


> But I used it to re-enforce my point about the Indo !!


 
Hold on now, the Indo and the Sindo are two completely different animals. I wouldnt even soak up the defrosting fridge water with the Sindo.


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## ubiquitous (21 Aug 2008)

In fairness there is far more to the Indo (and the Sindo) than Brendan O'Connor. For example, Brendan Keenan and Alan Ruddock are two of the best business/current affairs journalists in the country.


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## GeneralZod (21 Aug 2008)

Brendan O'Connor writes drivel. It's what he does, it's his job. 

He's very good at it.

Don't write off the sindo because of it.


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## cork (21 Aug 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> In fairness there is far more to the Indo (and the Sindo) than Brendan O'Connor. For example, Brendan Keenan and Alan Ruddock are two of the best business/current affairs journalists in the country.


 
tribune is far better for business. The Examiner has gone downhill.

The Sunday Indo Magazine is trashy. The Sunday indo itself is very tabloidy. Sending reporter down to Brian Cowens mobile home had zero news content.


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## ubiquitous (21 Aug 2008)

cork said:


> The Sunday Indo Magazine is trashy. The Sunday indo itself is very tabloidy. Sending reporter down to Brian Cowens mobile home had zero news content.



Agreed, but in the midst of the trash, the Sindo still have some of the very best writers around, for example,
Keenan on economics/business
Ruddock, Jody Corcoran & John Drennan on current affairs & politics
Dermot Crowe, Dion Fanning & Richard Sadlier on sport. 

Leonard Cohen referred to the USA as "the cradle of the best and of the worst". You could say the same about the Sindo 

The Tribune isn't bad but can be a bit lightweight and predictable at times. Richard Delevan was a big loss to them.

The Cork Examiner is still the Cork Examiner no matter what they call it.


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## diarmuidc (22 Aug 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Leonard Cohen referred to the USA as "the cradle of the best and of the worst". You could say the same about the Sindo


Maybe "the cradle of the worst and the mediocre"?


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## Gordanus (29 Aug 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Too true, i'm afraid. For example, the sort of character who used to lap up Kevin Myers articles when he worked for the IT and who now looks down through their nose at him now that he works for the Indo.



Never liked the arrogant twit.  Now that he's moved I no longer have to avert my eyes from the top right hand corner of the letters page in case I'd catch sight of his column!

The Irish Times, like any other Irish paper, will never have the resources of a New York Times.   But would you read the NYT for Irish news?


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## Purple (29 Aug 2008)

Gordanus said:


> But would you read the NYT for Irish news?


 No, but I wouldn’t read the IT for international news as it is almost useless on that front ignoring many major international stories almost entirely.


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## joe sod (29 Aug 2008)

I think because McWilliams got it right seems to be people's main problem with him, also he labelled and categorised everybody, people who were never labelled before didn't like it, so it wasn't just working class but alot of middle classes aswell, I think commentators like McWilliams are very common in britain or america but he is unique to the irish market, but he is a breath of fresh air because he challenges the right people, people who are not used to being challenged in ireland


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## Caveat (29 Aug 2008)

joe sod said:


> ...but he is a breath of fresh air because he challenges the right people, people who are not used to being challenged in ireland


 
Who in particular do you think he challenges and why are they "the right people"?


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