# Was I ripped off? Car repair query?



## brenglee (24 Aug 2011)

Im looking for some advice. Heres the story. 
My 05 Ford Focus was due a service, was running fine but due a service. So I left it into my usual garage,which is the place that has the full history on the car since it was brand new. Has never been serviced anywhere else.
Anyway, they rang me to say they had a problem and that the spark plug was stuck in the cylinder head. (Means nothing to me) and that they would need to remove the engine and bring it somewhere else to get the thing removed and replaced. ( I think they said it had to be moulded? ). 
The car didnt need new tyres, brakes or anything else done and the bill was 1,100e which I had to borrow from my credit union. 
A friend has told me that as they did the last service, its their fault that this happened, not mine and I shouldnt have been charged this.
Has anyone got any opinion or any advice to offer? Should I try to get my money back or do I just have to bite the bullet? I'd really appreciate some advise and how would I go about trying to get a refund? Anybody ? ??


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## niceoneted (25 Aug 2011)

Did they inform you or did you ask them how much they would charge for this work?

I do think that if they were the only ones servicing your car that they have some responsibility for it but how much I am not sure. Worth checking with an independent garage what this job entails. Also did you get a detailed invoice of the work carried out?


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## bacchus (25 Aug 2011)

What did they do to your car for €1100?


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## PetrolHead (25 Aug 2011)

This is a perfect example of an individual having no understanding of first, the problem, second, the solution and third, the cost involved.... resulting in.....

"...how would I go about trying to get a refund? Anybody ? ??"

Try asking questions in the future if you don't understand something.

Why was the plug stuck in the first place?
Did they remove the whole engine, or, more likely, just the head?
What had they tried before resorting to the course of action they took?
How much was it estimated to cost before they went ahead?
Where did they take the engine [head] and what was done with it?

There are a number of reasons why the plug should stick and only one of them (over tightening) would be down to the initial installer. 

I don't think you have any recourse with the garage and I don't think you were "ripped off"... I think you now have buyer's remorse due to a lack of knowledge and understanding regarding what you actually paid for.


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## joeysully (25 Aug 2011)

Id agree with PetrolHead 

The plug most likely seized in the head and broke leaving the threaded part of the plug left in the head. Or the plug was overtightened and the plug thread in the head was damaged. Either way the had would have to come off to drill out the old spark plug end or fit a helicoil the fix the broken thread. The head would then probably be skimmed. The engineering shop would charge 200-300 alone for this job. So your left with 800 for work done. So if your garage spent 10 hours at it that would be good time to do the job, If one exhaust stud broke, as they do it could add a lot of time to the job. Plus they would have parts 
Oil 
Oil Filter 
Coolant
Head Gasket
possibly head bolts and other gaskets. 
Hopefully they also changed the timing belt while it was off as this would probably cost you 600+ anyway. 
Get a detailed discription of the problem and what was replaced.


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## sustanon (25 Aug 2011)

They put the plug in, they take the plug out, they should have taken responsibility for their incompetence.


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## bacchus (26 Aug 2011)

Petrolhead,
With all respect, your post is a bit hash... The OP states she knows nothing about cars, and therefore did trust the mechanics who have been servicing her car since new. Nothing wrong with that IMO.



brenglee said:


> My 05 Ford Focus was due a service, was running fine but due a service. .......to say they had a problem and that the spark plug was stuck in the cylinder head. (Means nothing to me)



Without knowing what has been said/agreed between parties, we can't really judge..
May be the mechanic explained everything properly to the OP and OP agreed to go ahead without asking about cost, may be he did n't.

The car was running fine but a spark plug is stuck...That's not big deal, just leave the plug. May be this option has been offered to OP and rejected?
n?


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## sustanon (26 Aug 2011)

I'm still sticking to the incompetence of the mechanic, he botched the job and bought an engine.


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## brenglee (26 Aug 2011)

Petrolhead, think youre being a bit harsh. I dont understand cars, thats why I left it into a garage to be serviced, thinking it would cost 150-200e . end up with a bill 5 times that


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## brenglee (26 Aug 2011)

joeysully said:


> Id agree with PetrolHead
> 
> The plug most likely seized in the head and broke leaving the threaded part of the plug left in the head. Or the plug was overtightened and the plug thread in the head was damaged. Either way the had would have to come off to drill out the old spark plug end or fit a helicoil the fix the broken thread. The head would then probably be skimmed. The engineering shop would charge 200-300 alone for this job. So your left with 800 for work done. So if your garage spent 10 hours at it that would be good time to do the job, If one exhaust stud broke, as they do it could add a lot of time to the job. Plus they would have parts
> Oil
> ...


 
Thanks for this reply. You make sense! But they didnt change the timing belt.  I was charged 600e for labour.


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## PetrolHead (26 Aug 2011)

sustanon said:


> I'm still sticking to the incompetence of the mechanic, he botched the job and bought an engine.



As I said above, there are a plethora of reasons as to why a plug gets stuck. You can't instantly blame the guy that put them in. 




brenglee said:


> Petrolhead, think youre being a bit harsh. I dont understand cars, thats why I left it into a garage to be serviced, thinking it would cost 150-200e . end up with a bill 5 times that



You've proved my point... 

Not understanding the technical aspects of the situation in which you are dealing is no excuse for being a ill prepared consumer.


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## levelpar (26 Aug 2011)

> As I said above, there are a plethora of reasons as to why a plug gets stuck.



Give me 3 reasons.


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## steelblue (26 Aug 2011)

Hi Brenglee,

If you bought the car brand new then I would do the following

Check all the previous services to see if the spark plugs were changed by the garage. If this is the first time they were changed , then contact Ford direct and see if they will help as this was a manufacturing problem. If the garage previously changed the spark plugs, then request a refund of the cost of removal of the plug. This is unlikely to work so i would then take out a claim in the small claims court. 

If you bought the car secondhand, then again check if the plugs were changed when you had it serviced, if yes then look for a refund or go to the small claims court. If no then you have no recourse as the previous owner may have cause the damage.

It is most likely that the plug had damaged the cylinder head and was not really stuck as such.


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## joeysully (26 Aug 2011)

levelpar said:


> Give me 3 reasons.



1. Water leaking into the spark plug hole (from windscreen washer water hose under the bonnet) 

2. Oil leaking into the spark plug hole and onto threads - I have been told that the threads should be dry not oiled as the oil on the threads can cause them to sieze. A poor seal on the filler cap and unsteady hand topping up the oil can cause this.  

Maybe PetrolHead can add another one ?


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## steelblue (26 Aug 2011)

joeysully said:


> 1. Water leaking into the spark plug hole (from windscreen washer water hose under the bonnet)
> 
> 2. Oil leaking into the spark plug hole and onto threads - I have been told that the threads should be dry not oiled as the oil on the threads can cause them to sieze. A poor seal on the filler cap and unsteady hand topping up the oil can cause this.


 
The threads should be dry so as not to over tighten the plug on install. The oil would not cause it to seize.

The majority of plug issues that I have seen have been to do with the plug being cross threaded. This can happen very easily as most heads are made of aluminium and the plug is steel. The alumimium is always going to come of the worst in a fight.


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## brenglee (28 Aug 2011)

like it    Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply. I think what I will do is nothing, but will never use that particular garage again. They have lost a good customer, including a potential future car sale


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## roker (29 Aug 2011)

Just a last observation, oil and water spillage cannot get on to the plug threads because it would have to pass the copper seal on the plug. Steelblue has a good point, it was put in cross threaded, it should be screwed in by hand before tightening


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## blueband (8 Sep 2011)

if they were the only ones to service the car from new then i think they seen you comming a long way off! definitly change your garage.


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## sustanon (8 Sep 2011)

The reasons for the plug failing given above, are all technician incompetence related. Cross threading a spark plug is inexcusable.


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