# Dublin City Centre-Drugs/Begging etc



## papervalue (22 Sep 2010)

I work in the city centre. The city centre has had its issues with drugs and begging for drink/coffee/bus etc but recently I feel it is getting worse and worse.

I have gone to many different places in ireland and abroad and have not seem the level of carry on that now goes on in city centre day to day.

Before 9am this morning I seem 2 males and 1 female early 20's getting ready to shoot up on herion in a doorway near central bank.

People in city centre now seem to approch people asking for money say for a bus.(example) When has this become so acceptable to approach people on street looking for money. If i dont have money for a bus I walk home regardless of weather.

I have no problem giving money to a genuine homeless case but the amount of unnessary begging would put you off even carrying money in city centre.

If i was a tourist in dublin now, from what i see on streets day to day, I certainly would not return to holiday here. The city centre should be the safe/clean. I would be very slow to take my parents/ niece etc around Dublin. A lot of other safer cities to go to.

Also the problem of begging outside atm/shops, heapenny bridge- effect flow of traffic accross bridge.- Initimidation sitting under atm


I am all for giving money to the genuine homeless in dublin but it is harder to find them.
I not having a go at guards but thier presence seems very small on street,

They have to bring in laws/more guards to give the city back to the people

Anyone who is daily in city centre- Do you think it is getting better or worse? What can they do to solve the problem?


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## truthseeker (22 Sep 2010)

papervalue said:


> Do you think it is getting better or worse? What can they do to solve the problem?


 
It IS getting worse. There was a huge thread over on boards recently about it - talking about how selling and taking drugs is happening in plain public view in the city centre now.

There are methadone clinics in the city centre near main tourist areas - unless you move the methadone clinics there will be junkies in the areas they are in.


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## Ceist Beag (22 Sep 2010)

papervalue said:


> I am all for giving money to the genuine homeless in dublin but it is harder to find them.


Personally if I want to give money to the homeless I give to the likes of the Dublin Simon community - not someone begging on the street - I never give money to anyone begging as chances are it goes straight into a publicans till.


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## SlurrySlump (22 Sep 2010)

I stroll along Nassau Street to Dawson Street most weekends and every 50 yds or so there is someone begging. Same people every weekend. I counted 9 people begging recently.  I understand that begging is not illegal anymore is this correct?
Anyhow, needless to say I never see a policeman.


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## micmclo (22 Sep 2010)

I often wondered why they don't move the methadone clinics down to the port area further east.
It doesn't solve anything and it's not a case of hiding the problem but it does move it out of the city centre

Well either that or move the clinics to the suburbs but then residents would scream NIMBY.


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## Towger (22 Sep 2010)

There seems to be a move to reintroduce a begging law again, in my view the politicians should have done so as soon as the old law was over turned. They can rush through legislation in a few days they want to.

Anyway, yesterday and just off Grafton Street I was told to F'Off by a beggar who approached me looking for money. 20 minutes earlier I was passed by two large ministerial mercs travelling at high speed, through red lights complete with 3 or 4 Traffic Garda outriders with sirens blearing on their motorbikes... They live in a different world from reality...


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## TarfHead (22 Sep 2010)

The first time I realised there was a problem with junkies loitering on the boardwalk near O'Connell Bridge was a couple of years ago when I was walking with my daughter (then about 5/6) and we witnessed one of them urinating about 10 yards ahead of us.

He saw us and slurred/drawled an apology, so that made it OK 

There's a character who sets up 'shop' outside our (suburban) Church before Masses each Sunday. Predatory begging.


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## TarfHead (22 Sep 2010)

micmclo said:


> I often wondered why they don't move the methadone clinics down to the port area further east.
> It doesn't solve anything and it's not a case of hiding the problem but it does move it out of the city centre
> 
> Well either that or move the clinics to the suburbs but then residents would scream NIMBY.


 
Some (15) years ago, I attended a community meeting in Ringsend in opposition to a proposal to dispense methadone from the community centre. My then GF owned an apartment opposite. The people most vocal in opposition were the locals, the second and third generation '_Raytown-ers_'.

NIMBYism is not exclusive to 'burbs.


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## csirl (22 Sep 2010)

At the Luas stop in Abbey street, which should be renamed "junkie central" you frequently hear someone from Luas control on the intercom warning people that pickpockets/thieves are operating at the stop - they even sometimes give a discription of the alleged pickpockets - this is someone talking live, not a recorded message. Gardai should be called and people arrested.


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## micmclo (22 Sep 2010)

Tbh, I'd call Ringsend a suburb, it's not in the city centre, it's a completely separate area with its own history and identity


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## Towger (22 Sep 2010)

TarfHead said:


> The first time I realised there was a problem with junkies loitering on the boardwalk near O'Connell Bridge was a couple of years ago when I was walking with my daughter (then about 5/6) and we witnessed one of them urinating about 10 yards ahead of us.


 

The first and last time I walked down the 'Broadwalk', I thought ***** what am I doing here!


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## becky (22 Sep 2010)

Speaking as a non dub it has got much worse - reminded me of when I was in San Fran.  I was with friends recently outside Bruxells and we were asked at least 10 times for money.  A lot were saying it was for a hostel.


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## shanegl (22 Sep 2010)

Eden Quay is riddled with this carry on in the mornings.


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## Shawady (22 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> At the Luas stop in Abbey street, which should be renamed "junkie central" you frequently hear someone from Luas control on the intercom warning people that pickpockets/thieves are operating at the stop - they even sometimes give a discription of the alleged pickpockets - this is someone talking live, not a recorded message. Gardai should be called and people arrested.


 
Luas stop at Heuston is supposed to be bad also. My wife has been approached by beggars when she was getting tickets from the machine. She found it quite intimidating.


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## elefantfresh (22 Sep 2010)

Eden Quay and the boardwalk are no go in my opinion.


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## truthseeker (22 Sep 2010)

I dont think its just the city centre though, junkies seem to be appearing in increasing numbers in suburban shopping areas/luas stations now too. I havent used it myself but a number of my friends tell me they absolutely will not use the luas at the square in Tallaght because of the numbers of junkies - its just too intimidating.


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## pixiebean22 (22 Sep 2010)

It has gotten much worse over the last few years. Having lived in Dublin on my own for the past 5 years I've become increasingly aware of my own personal safety. When I was younger, 19/20 I would offer sandwiches/hot/cold drink to someone on the street and was always told f-off, eventually I stopped offering. I never give money to people begging on the street, I give to the simon community or other such organisations (my friend volunteers with the simon community and they do great work). A couple of months ago a friend and I were walking down Grafton Street deep in conversation when a girl approached us, she didn't look scruffy and wasn't carrying a sleeping bag/old coffee cup so i didn't assume she was a beggar, she had obviously asked us a question but because we were deep in conversation I asked her to repeat it, to which she replied "you ugly b****, f-off" I just ignored her, not wanting to get into a shouting match with her and proceeded to walk off, she stuck out her foot and tripped me up, I smacked my chin off the ground and chipped my two front teeth, bit of blood etc. Walked down the street with my friend to get a taxi home and assess the damage and as we were going I saw two gardai, told them about the incident and was told ah sure you're not too badly hurt are you? and off they went. In fairness the damage was minimal but a couple of days later I went to Pearse Street Garda Station (after being talked into it by family) to make a complaint and was told, sure nothing we can do now, she could be anywhere, I then suggested telling their beat patrol gardai to be a bit more proactive and was told "don't tell us how to police the streets missy" - well that told me!

In relation to this image of drug taking/begging giving a bad impression to tourists all you have to do is look at where these people are. Methadone clinic across the road from main entrance of hueston station, right beside the bus stop. Usually a huge amount of people coming and going from there on a Saturday morning. Also, the amount of beggars hanging around Busaras is unbelievable and they not only have a garda station across the road but their own security presence. The same can be said about beggars at the luas stop in Hueston station and at all the luas stops, specifically Abbey Street. I use the luas at Hueston every Friday evening and every Sunday morning at the same time and use the luas stop at Abbey Street every Sunday afternoon at the same time and there is always the same people there. Making announcements over loudspeakers is not good enough. The only good thing about security in Hueston is that they all look like they're on steroids so I'd say this deters beggars etc. A few weeks ago when Tony Blair was doing his book signing in Easons and the luas got stopped for 1-2 hours as his vehicles used the luas tracks to get away from Abbey Street, I was sitting on a luas at Smithfield (they were running from Smithfield to another point-can't remember where) and a garda got on and I looked out the window and there was a young guy weeing against the luas stop on the opposite side, garda had his back to the incident, no peripheral vision whatsoever!

There's a kid who sings/begs on Henry Street, has done so for years. Usually has a bucket and no shoes, usually around Arnotts and he sings old Irish songs, there is also a foreign guy that begs, sometimes on Henry Street or the Ha'penny Bridge, he also has no shoes and his feet are scruffy, he sits there shaking with an old coffee cup and a jumper pulled down over his knees, why has nothing been done to take either of these off the street? I was under the impression begging is illegal in Ireland?

The fact that they let people into this country and their primary intention is to sit on the street begging drives me bananas.

And I agree with other posters, the boardwalk is absolute no-go for me, it's sad that money was spent on something that could be used by so many people for walking and just enjoying the city centre but everyone I know avoids it (majority of people I see there are junkies/beggars/homeless people or tourists who don't realise).


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## CMCR (22 Sep 2010)

I also work in the city centre and have recently begun travelling to/from Heuston by the Luas. I cannot get over the volume of people I see every morning and evening around Abbey Street who are completely out of it. It's frightening standing there if you are on your own. Earlier this week morning, we were greeted at the Luas stop at 8:30am on Monday morning by a man shouting "What day is it? What day is it?" as he staggered about on the path.  

Last Thursday really took the biscuit however. At around 5:45pm, I witnessed an agrument followed by a really vicious assault by a young man on a female, in full view of everyone at Jervis Luas stop. Both of them were totally out of it but nobody whatsoever intervened. I think everyone was too afraid of them - I certainly was. 

A woman beside me telephoned for the police but a few minutes later, the next Luas arrived and everyone (including the man who carried out the assault) hopped on and 
that was it. It was just shocking to see this type of violence on the street - and in full view of everyone at the stop.

I absolutely dread taking the Luas now and have started driving to/from work again!


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## aristotle (22 Sep 2010)

Yeah its getting worse a bit. I have recently started getting randomly approached by some fella's asking for money for a bus to kildare bla bla. But to be honest its always been around. Of course when you say no they end up giving up some lip.

Then there is the organised begging you see. Every morning I see the same young girl (looks romanian, can't see for sure if she is) begging at one particular car parking machine. This morning she was just coming out of Insomnia with a take away coffee and making her way up to her usual spot. Nice to see she can afford the ol' latte in the mornings.


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## pixiebean22 (22 Sep 2010)

When I worked near stephen's green I used to see a romanian family get out of a taxi at one of the park entrances and disperse to their begging spots and then in the evenings i'd see them in the same spot getting into a taxi and on their way.


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## Ancutza (22 Sep 2010)

> Every morning I see the same young girl (looks romanian, can't see for sure if she is)


On behalf of my romanian wife, two half-irish half-romanian daughters and well-educated, well-off extended romanian family it would be nice if you wouldn't introduce your latent racism into the debate.  You _could_ try approaching  the girl in question and asking her to expose her posterior (whereupon most good romanians have an image of their passport and national flag tatooed) so that, indeed, you may 'see' and be 'sure'.

Probably the girl in question is of the Rrom ethnicity in which case she may _well_ hold a romanian passport but equally might hold one from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Albania or a host of other european countries.


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## DB74 (22 Sep 2010)

A good few years ago, I busked on Grafton Street for a summer. One day, a young beggar lad (6-7 yr old) came up to me and told me to put the money that was on my guitar case in my pocket because peope wouldn't give me anything if they thought I had got loads already.

He was right!


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## micmclo (22 Sep 2010)

That may be true DB74

I see plently of beggers in spotlessly clean white Nike runners. Or other designer label

Nicer then I have


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## pixiebean22 (22 Sep 2010)

Ancutza said:


> On behalf of my romanian wife, two half-irish half-romanian daughters and well-educated, well-off extended romanian family it would be nice if you wouldn't introduce your latent racism into the debate.  You _could_ try approaching  the girl in question and asking her to expose her posterior (whereupon most good romanians have an image of their passport and national flag tatooed) so that, indeed, you may 'see' and be 'sure'.
> 
> Probably the girl in question is of the Rrom ethnicity in which case she may _well_ hold a romanian passport but equally might hold one from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Albania or a host of other european countries.



I'm wary of opening a can of worms here but how is he being racist?  Did he insult the Roma community?  Not that I can see.  Did he make unfounded assumptions about the Roma community?  Not that I can see.  For information purposes he simply stated that the beggar in question may be Romanian.  The *fact* remains that there is a huge presence of Romanian beggars on Irish streets, as well as Irish and other nationalities, this can be seen by any person walking down any street in Ireland.


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## SlurrySlump (23 Sep 2010)

aristotle said:


> This morning she was just coming out of Insomnia with a take away coffee and making her way up to her usual spot. Nice to see she can afford the ol' latte in the mornings.


 
And after she drinks it she leaves the empty container on the ground along with all her other empty snack rubbish wrappings. Just walk along Nassau Street later on in the day and see all the rubbish left on the ground.


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## Complainer (23 Sep 2010)

Ancutza said:


> You _could_ try approaching  the girl in question and asking her to expose her posterior (whereupon most good romanians have an image of their passport and national flag tatooed) so that, indeed, you may 'see' and be 'sure'.


Maybe he already has checked her tats.


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## truthseeker (23 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> I'm wary of opening a can of worms here but how is he being racist? Did he insult the Roma community? Not that I can see. Did he make unfounded assumptions about the Roma community? Not that I can see. For information purposes he simply stated that the beggar in question may be Romanian. The *fact* remains that there is a huge presence of Romanian beggars on Irish streets, as well as Irish and other nationalities, this can be seen by any person walking down any street in Ireland.


 
+1. Its very pc we are getting if we cant use a nationality as a descriptor. Nationality is not an indicator of race anyway.

On the subject of people of different nationalities who are well known to beg in this country, a few weeks ago I was in the local takeaway and when I came out a car had parked next to mine and as I went to get into mine I realised that the ladies in the back of the car (in full recognisable begging regalia of brightly coloured long skirts, head scarves etc...) were counting their cash. I had a good look as they were parked on my drivers side and I was absolutely shocked at the amounts in their hands. Big fat wads of 50's and 20's. I have dealt with money in a work environment and at a guess I would think they were handling at least couple of grand in cash. Seems like its a lucrative business.

At least the career beggars are not lurching around the street high on whatever they take and not knowing what they are doing.

I was in Edinburgh recently and I was quite shocked at the numbers of junkies on the main tourist streets as well. It seemed like every few paces there was another of the living dead, doing the junkie shuffle, shouting his/her head off randomly, falling about the place or asking people for money. I personally found it quite scary - you just dont know what a junkie is capable of when they want a fix.


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## csirl (23 Sep 2010)

I think the correct legal name for the offence of being drunk in public is something along the lines of "intoxicated in a public place and a danger to yourself or others..".

So it is an offence to be out of your head on alcohol in public. 

Can this offence also be applied to people who are out of their heads on drugs? If not, why isnt a similar offence introduced?


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## truthseeker (23 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> So it is an offence to be out of your head on alcohol in public.


 
Doesnt seem like thats a law thats enforced either - ever seen city centre at pub or nightclub closing times? When Copperface Jacks lets out - there are drunks all over the street right outside the Harcourt St Garda Station.


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## pixiebean22 (23 Sep 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Doesnt seem like thats a law thats enforced either - ever seen city centre at pub or nightclub closing times? When Copperface Jacks lets out - there are drunks all over the street right outside the Harcourt St Garda Station.


 
In fairness a lot of the people falling out of Copperface Jacks are gardai


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## BONDGIRL (23 Sep 2010)

Last Sat I went on the liffey cruise.. great little boat on the liffey with a tour guide.. but while waiting to sail off, two people man and woman around 60 yrs old LOCKED drunk at around 1pm where killing eachother, pucnhing the face off eachother all over a CAN OF BEER....... horrible to see and especially so many tourists looking on..


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## micmclo (23 Sep 2010)

(Some) Roma are begging in most every city in Europe
It's only in the last few years that Ireland has experienced it

When I was in Rome last there were for sure
And when I was in a shop by Roma Tiburtina they came in with loooooads of coins to change into notes

Yeah, it's only an anecdote
But of a lot of posters are more travelled then me and would have seen the Roma long before most Irish people did

But the city where I've seen the most homeless people isn't Dublin, it's Edinburgh
Well of course says you, it's a bigger city.
Just going by what I see in the city centre, tourist areas which is what the OP started the thread on


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## johnd (23 Sep 2010)

Why do people give money to beggers? If people stopped giving begging would stop. From my limited observation it is young people who tend to give the most, maybe older people are less likely to feel guilty if they don't


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## pixiebean22 (23 Sep 2010)

johnd said:


> Why do people give money to beggers? If people stopped giving begging would stop. From my limited observation it is young people who tend to give the most, maybe older people are less likely to feel guilty if they don't


 
Just from my own experience, when I was younger I did give money to beggars, after several bad experiences  I just stopped (now I'm older)


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## johnd (23 Sep 2010)

I remember years ago when still a teenager and actually cared what people thought about me - I put 50p into a collection box for Simon. The collector, in his twenties, smirked and put his eyes up to heaven and like a fool I gave an extra coin.  If it happened today I would fish to 50c back out again.


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## micmclo (23 Sep 2010)

When I was young it was a big adventure to get Bus Eireann to go shopping in Dublin, hurray
It was a 6 hour bus trip there and back , no M7 back then I tell ya

Only went maybe twice a year.

And everytime I'd be stopped by young urchins asking for a pound for the bus. Spotting the naive culchies with no street smarts 
Seemed pretty reasonable to me so I gave a punt every time

I genuinely believed them. 
Until I got asked the 5th or 6th time!


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## aristotle (23 Sep 2010)

Ancutza said:


> On behalf of my romanian wife, two half-irish half-romanian daughters and well-educated, well-off extended romanian family it would be nice if you wouldn't introduce your latent racism into the debate. You _could_ try approaching the girl in question and asking her to expose her posterior (whereupon most good romanians have an image of their passport and national flag tatooed) so that, indeed, you may 'see' and be 'sure'.
> 
> Probably the girl in question is of the Rrom ethnicity in which case she may _well_ hold a romanian passport but equally might hold one from Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Albania or a host of other european countries.


 
No offence meant. I was only saying she looks Romanian and I am guessing that by her clothes and the way she looks. I could be wrong. Obviously that was a typo and I meant to say "I couldn't *say *for sure".

Why take offence, would you have an issue saying such a person looks like an indian, an italian etc etc.

At worst I am making a guess that may not be correct, but its far from racism.

Can you retract that statement that I was being racist?


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## bren1916 (23 Sep 2010)

Simple fact is if people would just STOP giving money to the 'Roma' (as opposed to 'Romanian' beggars - there is a big difference) surely they would pack their bags and move on as is their want anyway....
Roma are IMO lazy beggars who contribute not one iota to this country and indeed send their 'profits' from begging back to their native land and extended families.


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## aristotle (23 Sep 2010)

What a non-lazy begger then?


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## truthseeker (23 Sep 2010)

aristotle said:


> What a non-lazy begger then?


 
The one who conned me in a loop station in Chicago - extremely well dressed young man in a business suit, told me his briefcase had been stolen with his wallet in it, could I spare some change for him to make a call/catch a train. I handed over a couple of dollars. I was told afterwards that the guy makes thousands pulling the same stunt all over train stations - he was SO believable!!

Thats what I call non lazy begging!


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## Ancutza (23 Sep 2010)

> Simple fact is if people would just STOP giving money to the 'Roma' (as  opposed to 'Romanian' beggars - there is a big difference) surely they  would pack their bags and move on as is their want anyway....
> Roma are IMO lazy beggars who contribute not one iota to this country  and indeed send their 'profits' from begging back to their native land  and extended families.


Thank you Bren for having the grace, education and open-mindedness to recognise the distinction.

Roma is a city in Italy.  The correct term for this ethnic group (i.e. the ones alluded to as being dressed in flowing colourful skirts and with similarly brightly coloured heads scarves) is *Rrom*

Once again whilst they _*might *_be romanian citizens they just as likely might be something else, the other main groupings of them being found in Hungary and Slovakia.


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## Ancutza (23 Sep 2010)

> On the subject of people of different nationalities who are well known  to beg in this country, a few weeks ago I was in the local takeaway and  when I came out a car had parked next to mine and as I went to get into  mine I realised that the ladies in the back of the car (in full  recognisable begging regalia of brightly coloured long skirts, head  scarves etc...)



Go on Truthseeker, just for a laugh hazard a guess at where you think these ladies might be from.  I'm sure you'll try and finesse your way out of it but I'm betting I can read your mind!!! 

At this stage I'm actually smiling in a wry kind of way.  If I've introduced just one shread of doubt into any of your heads about the nationality of any of these beggars then my job here is done.  Try and set aside your predjudices next time you see one and imagine them as something other than romanian citizens.  You never know. They might just be!


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## pixiebean22 (23 Sep 2010)

You might try reading the original post and base your comments on that instead of trying to twist posts and turn this thread into a soapbox for something you're obviously quite bitter about.


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## Ancutza (23 Sep 2010)

> Can you retract that statement that I was being racist?



No, I won't retract it.  I'll qualify it instead.  You drew a conclusion from both the way the girl was dressed and the activity she was engaged in which rang a bell in your head that she was probably romanian.  This is discriminatory against one grouping of people and therefore, by definition, rascist.

Now I wish I could actually talk to you face-to-face on this issue as you will probably read my comments on your comments (if you get what I mean) as being offensive.  This absolutely isn't true.  I don't necessarily consider you a bad person.  You've been conditioned, in large part by the media (the BBC are the very worst of the worst for their portrayal of Romania) but you must recognise that the stated inferences you drew _are_ latently racist.  Please, please think about the assumptions you make in future and the world will be a happier place.


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## Ancutza (23 Sep 2010)

> You might try reading the original post and base your comments on that  instead of trying to twist posts and turn this thread into a soapbox for  something you're obviously quite bitter about.



I'm not at all bitter.  At all, at all!! One particular assumption did make me think "Oh for crying out loud, not again!!"  and therefore I replied to it.  I know I've made my point.  I hope I've provoked a little bit of soul-searching by others in the assumptions they make about other people, I know I've dragged the thread hopelessly off course and for that reason I'll withdraw now and bite me lip!


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## pixiebean22 (23 Sep 2010)

Ancutza said:


> I'm not at all bitter. At all, at all!! One particular assumption did make me think "Oh for crying out loud, not again!!" and therefore I replied to it. I know I've made my point. I hope I've provoked a little bit of soul-searching by others in the assumptions they make about other people, I know I've dragged the thread hopelessly off course and for that reason I'll withdraw now and bite me lip!


 
So you _were_ just trying to provoke people?  I see...


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## Ceist Beag (23 Sep 2010)

Wind it in Ancutza. As pixiebean said you're obviously looking for a soapbox to air your own views but this thread isn't the place. aristotle was nowhere near making an offensive remark about any group and in my opinion you owe him an apology but instead you just compound your slur with some pious rant!


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## Brendan Burgess (23 Sep 2010)

That's all we have time for folks


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