# Assault by Staff



## new_user2007 (13 Aug 2007)

Hi,

I was in a diner last Saturday night and to keep a long story short was attacked by the chef.  He slapped me across the face and ripped my shirt for no reason that I knew of at the time.  It was a misunderstanding on his behalf as he thought I was up to no good.  I have since talked to the manager, viewed the CCTV and they are admitting that the chef was completely in the wrong.  I was told I could get him fired but I just asked to see a written warning to be given to him and have the price of the shirt refunded.

Am I being too lenient and should I persue further as they are a very, very well known establishment and have admitted that the chef should never have left his station and attacked me?  The CCTV shows him approaching me and lashing out without any instigation.............


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## KalEl (13 Aug 2007)

I think you're being too lenient...that's outrageous behaviour.


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## ClubMan (13 Aug 2007)

Just curious as to why you have not reported this to the _Gardaí_?


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## new_user2007 (13 Aug 2007)

I did initially but I'm nor injured and have no real intention of going down that route.  I suppose I'm just asking am due a compensation package greater than the one I am going to maybe accept?


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## ClubMan (13 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> I did initially but I'm nor injured and have no real intention of going down that route.


What did the _Gardaí _say/do when you reported the assault?

I can't believe that the business in question is planning to retain a staff member who perpetrated an unprovoked assault on a customer regardless of whether or not the victim was prepared to push for a sacking!


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## z103 (13 Aug 2007)

Did you ask for a salt with your dinner? - maybe they thought you wanted a slap-up meal.

Now that I've got that out of my system, 
maybe you should consult a solicitor. I know someone that was in a similar position (assaulted by a security guard) and got compensation. It took months to get the money.

Maybe I'm too soft, but if I wasn't injured I'd just let it be. You never know the chef's personal circumstances.


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## ClubMan (13 Aug 2007)

leghorn said:


> maybe they thought you wanted a slap-up meal.





> Maybe I'm too soft, but if I wasn't injured I'd just let it be. You never know the chef's personal circumstances.


Absolutely no excuse for assaulting somebody in my opinion and in law.


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## KalEl (13 Aug 2007)

If it was me, I would speak to a solicitor. I would not consider myself a litigious individual but if I was the victim of an unprovoked physical attack in a restaurant by a member of staff I would want to be compensated. Their attitude is a little bizarre...surely he should be sacked immediately?


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## Ham Slicer (13 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Absolutely no excuse for assaulting somebody in my opinion and in law.




Totally agree.

Interested to know did the OP ever get an apology directly from the chef.  It would be his sincerity and remorsefulness that would determine how I would treat the issue.


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## z108 (13 Aug 2007)

I am wondering if you havent been so traumatised by the 'perceived and public humiliation' of such a bad experience and have trouble revisiting it in memory that you fear doing anything about it ?
The human mind can play funny tricks . One such very distant but related example is here at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome to which battered person syndrome is related and similar ! 

I will give you one very good reason why you should tell the guards and press charges. That reason is that this chef will probably do it again either professionally or in his personal life. Perhaps he has done it in the past and gotten away with it. You owe society to put what happened firmly on his record.
Hijinks and acting the fool is one thing. Nobody wants the work place to be a suffocating and dull place but actually laying your hands on anyone especially a customer to whom you are a stranger who wont know if you are joking or not ? That is complete and utter bull !
Tell the guards. If the restaurant wants to keep him on in employment thats their business. Their business will suffer because of it if they do.


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## niceoneted (13 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> I will give you one very good reason why you should tell the guards and press charges. That reason is that this chef will probably do it again. Perhaps he has done it in the past and gotten away with it. You owe society to put what happened firmly on his record.
> Hijinks and acting the fool is one thing. Nobody wants the work place to be a suffocating and dull place but actually laying your hands on anyone especially a customer to whom you are a stranger who wont know if you are joking or not ? That is complete and utter bull !
> Tell the guards. If the restaurant wants to keep him on in employment thats their business. Their business will suffer because of it if they do.



I  total agree here. I would definitely report this to the Gardai.It was unacceptable behaviour and there is no excuse for it.


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2007)

There might be an explanation. People make mistakes. As you say yourself, "you have cut a long story short".  I suppose I would like to know more about what you have left out. 

 This is a serious mistake, but you were not injured. 

I would report it to the Gardaí for the record. But if you are not affected by the incident, don't press charges. 



> I just asked to see a written warning to be given to him and have the price of the shirt refunded.



This seems to me to be an appropriate response to the matter.

Brendan


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## KalEl (13 Aug 2007)

Brendan said:


> I would report it to the Gardaí for the record. But if you are not affected by the incident, don't press charges.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Brendan, the chef assaulted the OP for no reason...that's outrageous behaviour. A slap on the wrist is not appropriate in this case. The chef should be sacked and the business in question should offer the OP compensation.


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## PM1234 (13 Aug 2007)

> he thought I was up to no good


. 

There might be something we're not being told here which might provide an explanation. Not an excuse though.


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## Bank Manager (13 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> What did the _Gardaí _say/do when you reported the assault?
> 
> I can't believe that the business in question is planning to retain a staff member who perpetrated an unprovoked assault on a customer regardless of whether or not the victim was prepared to push for a sacking!



Agree with Clubman - how could any business want to continue to employ a person who potentially attacks their customers - irrespective of what the 'victim' wants.

BM


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

Hi,

I did inform the gardai and they arrived straight after it happened but to be honest I do not want the chef to lose his job.  They said if I want to take it further they will contact me again this week.  I initially agreed because I thought the manager would not take my side regardless of any CCTV footage.  As the manager now completely accepts blame, and my side of the story, so I will not press charges.  I have requested to see the written warning he will receive and leave it at that.  He could have personal issues etc. which made him lash out.  I just want to know whether I am letting the diner off lightly by simply accepting the price of my ripped shirt or is there a standard compenation that they will give, and I'm entitled to, to avoid leagal proceedings.


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

Why did he think you were up to no good? What is the real story?


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Aug 2007)

Where liability is accepted for personal injury and the only thing to be agreed is the level of damages, the Personal Injuries Assessment Board will adjudicate for you.

It doesn't seem to me that you were injured in any way though? 

You don't want the chef to lose his job which is admirable of you. Yet you want the diner to pay you compensation for something? Why not ask the chef for this compensation? He was at fault, not the management of the diner. 

Brendan


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## michaelm (14 Aug 2007)

The Chef may have been having a bad/stressful day and, although it doesn't excuse his behaviour, you might be best to get a personal apology from the Chef plus compensation for the shirt and maybe a free meal (for four).  I would say put it behind you, people make mistakes, and these things can come around.


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## hokey32 (14 Aug 2007)

I'd look for chicken tenders and a chocolate malt as part compensation!

Seriously though, whether the chef was having a bad day or not is in no way an excuse for his behaviour.  Having a bad day doesn't give people free reign to lash out at others.  Why was it that the chef "attended" to the situation if he thought you were up to no good instead of the manager?  To be honest, if the situation was as clear cut as explained i.e. it was totally unprovoked I would expect the chef to be fired.  This kind of behaviour goes beyond verbal warning, written warning etc.


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## Billo (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla's question above should be answered.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

To answer:

I went in to the diner and sat down with 5 other people.  I noticed the mustard was empty, got up went to another table (empty) and took that mustard.  This was also empty so I went to the counter (no people sitting at it) and took a third mustard.  This was full so that was ok.  I can only imagine that the chef behind the hot plate thought I was collecting the mustards and going to build a sand castle with them, generally being a messer.  He came over to the table, a distance of about 30 feet from his station, and agressivley grabbed all the mustards of the table, knocking one onto the floor.  I said 'What the f**k are you doing' and he grabbed me and ,slap, slap ,rip!  I could have retaliated but (A) I was with respectable people and (B) I would have been the one who ended up in jail for assault.


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## CCOVICH (14 Aug 2007)

When you say 



> I can only imagine that the chef behind the hot plate thought I was collecting the mustards and going to build a sand castle with them, generally being a messer.


 
had you been in this diner before?  Otherwise, how would the chef have known this?


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

I find that very strange. Why on earth would anyone watching you do that jump to the conclusion that you were going to build a sandcastle with mustard jars? Is that a common thing to do? I've never heard of it or seen it.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> I said 'What the f**k are you doing' and he grabbed me and ,slap, slap ,rip!  I could have retaliated but (A) I was with respectable people and (B) I would have been the one who ended up in jail for assault.


Verbal abuse/assault preceding the physical assault? The plot thickens although obviously it does not excuse the actions of the chef. Just curious if there was any drink/drugs taken in case you are not recalling/recounting the details of the incident clearly? Was there no security staff on duty in this place?


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## Thirsty (14 Aug 2007)

The OPs story seems clear to me; he says





> I can only imagine...


 i.e. his possible interpretation of what the staff member might have been thinking



> ....thought I was collecting the mustards and going to build a sand castle with them, [and/or] generally being a messer


does that make it clearer?

What the OP didn't make clear in his first post though was that he was abusive to the staff member (doesn't excuse the physical violence however).


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

Ok, taking the OP at his word as below:



new_user2007 said:


> agressivley grabbed all the mustards of the table, knocking one onto the floor.  I said 'What the f**k are you doing'



Isn't there a big difference between saying 'f**k you' and 'What the f**k are you doing'  ?  What the OP said does not constitute a threat of any description and appears as a reaction within normal parameters to a strange, startling or surprising behaviour. Spend any time in the city centre and any aspirations of preciously saving your ears from swear words will surely turn out to be a disappointment. Neither does it give one a licence to be agressive towards those who swear. However agressively knocking the mustard off the table sounds very dodge.



new_user2007 said:


> I could have retaliated but (A) I was with respectable people and (B) I would have been the one who ended up in jail for assault.



This sounds like the victim of the assault was fully in control and acted like a better person at the time. I'm trying to figure out why the victim should be blamed for anything


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

When I say building 'sandcastles' I mean he was assuming I was going to mess with the bottles.  The CCTV footage was viewed by the Branch Manager and I was told I did nothing wrong.  Obviously when it happens so quickly you question have you the facts right but the CCTV footage proves I did nothing wrong.  I have never had hasssle like this before, had a few drinks on me but I was going to eat and then start drinking!  No drugs taken.  The 'sandcastles' bit is my only way of determining why he went off his head.  If I thought I had provoked him at all I'd not even bother raising this issue.   He misinterpreid something and jumped on me..........simple as.


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## Welfarite (14 Aug 2007)

There are 2 issues her IMHO:

1. The alleged assault should be brought to court to determine that it actually was as stated, where the person will be punished as appropriate.

(This will ensure that, if this person is guilty of an offence, there is less likelihood of another person (maybe a child?) getting the same treatment from them, as well as bringing them to the attnetion fo the Gardai in case of future "events" like this.)
2. The issue of compensation will arise from the result of the court case if the person is found guilty and should be pursued through the appropriate legal channels.

(This will ensure proper compensation to the person for traumatic stress, possible future physical problems, etc.)

I was assaulted many years ago and my reaction was that I wanted it forgotten about and didn't prosecute the offenders....for months I was afraid to go to certain places and felt unreasonably guilty that I had brought it on myself


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

Is anyone blaming the 'victim' for something? I'm certainly not. If the explanation the OP put forward is a full and frank explanation then it seems to me that the chef had a very strange reaction which was inappropriate to the actions of the OP. It's that strange reaction that I am certainly probing as I'm sure other posters are.

BUT why would the chef think OP was going to build 'sandcastles'? Did the OP take all the bottles, including the ones he found empty back to his table, and if so why?


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

I presume he thought I was gathering them up to play some joke or something when in fact I was just looking for one with some contents in it.  If that is not the case then I have no clue why he left his station, on CCTV, and started slapping and dragging out of me.  I have already been cleared by the branch manager who was very apologetic, as she seem her staff striking a customer, so I just wanna know what can I expect in compensation.  I feel as if I'm been tried for a crime I didn't commit!!!!!!!!


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

Welfarite said:


> I was assaulted many years ago and my reaction was that I wanted it forgotten about and didn't prosecute the offenders....for months I was afraid to go to certain places and felt unreasonably guilty that I had brought it on myself


Sorry to hear about that. Bullies (like this chef allegedly is) should be exposed for what they are to the full extents of the law in order to protect others and help victims whos self esteem is often damaged.
I dont believe agressive behaviour like this is a 'once off'. It's usually part of  a pattern. The only thing which will break this pattern is if the chef is made to realise that his actions have consequences in the real world.


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

So to be fully frank, you had had a few drinks, you were with a few friends and you collected at least three mustard jars or pots or something from other tables and brought them back to your table where you already had one. Be honest now, what were you doing bringing back empty mustard pots to your table. I don't accept that you would bring an empty pot back for no reason. 

Be that as it may if you didn't threaten the chef his attack on you was illegal and the owners of the cafe are right in that they have to accept responsibility for that action. What you are trying to find out here is what you are entitled to in the form of compensation. 

Obviously you are entitled to the price of your shirt and any other out of pocket expenses. Were you injured in any way- bruised or cut? Were you frightened or shocked?


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

I was at our table, squited the mustard, nothing in it.  Went to other table, got mustard, back to my table, squirted it, nothing in it.  Went to third table, got mustard, quirted it, success.  Mustard jar count on table = 3.  Turned around and got a slap of chef.   As reagards to having a few drinks, it was 3 and I was going to eat before I had more.  All I wanted to know was am I being lenent on the compo front.  No bruises or shock but obviously chef knows my face thus I cannot eat again in diner due to what he may do to my food.  Eat in this or other of its diners once every two weeks at least.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Be that as it may if you didn't threaten the chef his attack on you was illegal


Surely his attack would be illegal regardless? Even if threatened he would have no right to attack? Only self defence against an actual attack would be an excuse? I am not a lawyer but surely that common sensical approach is what the law allows for?


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## scatriona (14 Aug 2007)

Hi

For what it's worth.... while I totally agree that what the chef did was wrong, downright bizarre even... but if it didn't leave a lasting effect on you, then I would be inclined to walk away. Do you really want the hassle of the litigation route? People can and do behave in the strangest ways and you deserve to feel agrieved by what he did, but I think I'd put it down to experience and take your business elsewhere. Hit them in the pocket, where it hurts!

S


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

I still feel there is more to this than you are saying. Were you and your friends being loud or generally messing. Or have you previous form in the diner for messing? As I said it still doesnt excuse an unprovoked attack but it might go towards explaining why the chef reacted the way he did.

To answer your question about compensation, there is no standard figure. It really depends on the individual circumstances and the individual's reaction to that. So for example if you had been very frightened or shocked you could be entitled to more than where you appear to have just brushed it off and got on with things. Or if you had a lasting or ongoing injury then of course you would be entitled to more.


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Surely his attack would be illegal regardless? Even if threatened he would have no right to attack? Only self defence against an actual attack would be an excuse? I am not a lawyer but surely that common sensical approach is what the law allows for?


 
If he felt threatened then his attack could have been self defense since making someone feel threatened can in itself constitute an assault.


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## ClubMan (14 Aug 2007)

I see - thanks for that.


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## KalEl (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla, you're being overly hard on the OP...he brought the mustard containers back to test them which sounds perfectly normal to me.
To get back to the point, if it were me I would speak to a solicitor.
My aim would be to have the chef sacked and to receive €5000 in compensation.
You have been the victim of an outrageous attack and I cannot believe how some people keep disputing/questioning your version of events.
I admire your self control...I would have laid the guy out.


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla said:


> So to be fully frank, you had had a few drinks,



I also think you're being overly hard on the OP. The OP was out with his friends. He was entitled to a few drinks. I presume the Chef was sober when he assaulted the victim.


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> Vanilla, you're being overly hard on the OP...My aim would be to have the chef sacked and to receive €5000 in compensation.


 
If you think I'm being hard you should see the treatment OP will get if he gets up on the stand looking for €5000 compensation. 

Sorry guys but I've been taking statements from people in these and similar circumstances for a while now and I've found that there's often more to a story than first appears. 

Let's be clear nobody is disputing that if the chef attacked the OP, was not provoked or threatened, then his actions were wrong. 

However there's enough detail in the Ops' replies to make me doubt that he was not involved in some messing either on this or on another occasion to the chef's knowledge. Again that doesnt make the chefs' actions right, but it might explain them.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

Never met the chef before in my life.  Was not messing or drunk or loud or abusive either, CCTV proves it.  Again if I was at all to blame then I'd not bother even posting.


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## Thrifty1 (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla said:


> If you think I'm being hard you should see the treatment OP will get if he gets up on the stand looking for €5000 compensation.
> 
> Sorry guys but I've been taking statements from people in these and similar circumstances for a while now and I've found that there's often more to a story than first appears.
> 
> ...


 
I completely agree. It strikes me as unusual that this chef would attack a customer completely unprovoked. Having 3 mustard bottles on your table hardly constitutes such an offense that you should get slapped and your shirt ripped.
My initial reaction was that the OP was omitting information. Like the fact he had been in trouble there before, was drunk and disorderly, etc.
It also strikes me an unusual that the manager is willing to let the chef off with a warning. This would lead me to believe that the manager doesnt consider the chef a threat to other customers and perhaps may have been justified in the attack.

All this is just speculation and the OP may be telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth  but the reaction of the chef was not "normal" given the circumstances quoted which is bound to give rise to some suspicion.

Also i know if i were the victim of such an attack i would be more interested in criminal prosecution than compensation.


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## Trish2006 (14 Aug 2007)

Have you received any sort of explanation from the manager as to what the chef gave as his reason for attacking you?  Surely someone has asked him what he thought he was doing and why.  You're only able to speculate but maybe the real reason why may help you decide if you're being too lenient or not.  I would assume you're entitled to at least an explanation and an apology from the chef, not just the management.


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

Thrifty1 said:


> It strikes me as unusual that this chef would attack a customer completely unprovoked.



If it was unusual then living in a Utopia we wouldnt need the Guards, Solicitors , laws and courts  etc . The sad fact is unprovoked assaults are too common. 
Of course anythings possible but what could the victim possibly have done to get the blame for being assaulted ?


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## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> Of course anythings possible but what could the victim possibly have done to get the blame for being assaulted ?


 
That's what we are trying to find out.

Thrifty1 made a good point. If the chef is a lunatic who made an unprovoked assault would his boss have left him off with a warning? Well, maybe the boss and the chef are both lunatics.

BTW remember our justice system is based on 'innocent until proven guilty' and 'better 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent...' etc. So in a criminal trial a case has to be made against the chef before he could be found guilty.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

I have no interest in criminal proceeedings.  If i wanted to make him pay I'd do it my own way, without sounding like a 'hardman'.  Once I was told I was in the right I was happy. I do not want him to personally apologise or any explanation as to why.  Theses things happen every day somewhere I'm sure.  I am going to accept damages to my shirt only and wanted to know do people view this as sufficent.  That was the reason for my initial posting of this sceanrio.


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## Thrifty1 (14 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> If it was unusual then living in a Utopia we wouldnt need the Guards, Solicitors , laws and courts etc . *The sad fact is unprovoked assaults are too common. *
> Of course anythings possible but what could the victim possibly have done to get the blame for being assaulted ?


 
Thats true but these are usually on the street and involve drink or drugs, its very rare you hear of a chef in his place of employment carrying out his work attacking a customer unprovoked.
Im not saying its beyond the realms of possibility but its "unusual" and IMO deserving of further investigation.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

My thought is, as I've stated, he thought I was going to start acting the b****ks as he seen me 'collecting' mustard jars and decided to put a stop to it.  He came over, forcefully grabbed all jars, knocking one of them onto the floor.  I said 'what the f**k do you think your doing' as I had no sense I was doing anything wrong and then he lashed out.  I have talked to all other people there, including my fiance, and everyone said I did feck all wrong and they are as shocked as me as to the chef's actions.


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

Thrifty1 said:


> Thats true but these are usually on the street and involve drink or drugs, its very rare you hear of a chef in his place of employment carrying out his work attacking a customer unprovoked.



In late night diners like this the staff are used to a steady stream of drunks especially at 3 am  and for them its nothing unusual or provocative. 
As I wrote earlier: I presume the Chef was sober and fully knew what he was doing when he assaulted the victim. If anything had happened on a previous night to provoke the chef this only means what the chef did was premeditated over a much longer period than the 5 minutes necessary to fetch 3 mustard bottles.


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## KalEl (14 Aug 2007)

Vanilla said:


> If you think I'm being hard you should see the treatment OP will get if he gets up on the stand looking for €5000 compensation.
> 
> Sorry guys but I've been taking statements from people in these and similar circumstances for a while now and I've found that there's often more to a story than first appears.
> 
> ...


 
Vanilla, the OP's explanation seems perfectly satisfactory to me. He didn't do anything wrong and was physically assaulted and humiliated by a chef in a fast food diner. There are witnesses and there is CCTV footage of the incident. Do you honestly believe the victim would not be awarded compensation in this case? Obviously they would based on what we have heard. I agree there may be more to it but on the basis of what the OP has said it's clear cut.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

Thi happened at 11:30pm and we were all not sober but certainly not drunk and disorderly.


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## z108 (14 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> ...  As reagards to having a few drinks, it was 3 and I was going to eat before I had more. ...



Oh ok so you had 3 drinks . I thought you meant the time was 3 in the morning


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## Thrifty1 (14 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> In late night diners like this the staff are used to a steady stream of drunks especially at 3 am and for them its nothing unusual or provocative.
> As I wrote earlier: I presume the Chef was sober and fully knew what he was doing when he assaulted the victim. If anything had happened on a previous night to provoke the chef this only means what the chef did was premeditated over a much longer period than the 5 minutes necessary to fetch 3 mustard bottles.


 
I actually cant figure out if you are arguing for or against my point. The OP said he only had 3 drinks and was intending on going back out drinking, implying it was early enough in the night - not 3am.
Are you saying the chef should be used to dealing with drunks and shouldnt get provoked?

Posts crossed.


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## niceoneted (14 Aug 2007)

I feel if you were to go down the line of compensation in civil proceedings where a criminal offence took place - and no criminal proceedings were instigated - they would take a dim view of it ie you would not be compensated as much as if criminal proceedings took place and he was convicted.  
I'd look for a voucher for the said place. Also the fact that you now feel you can not eat in this branch is going to have an effect on you.Leaves you with less choice in life if even a little.  
One other thing to take into consideration - if this chef can do this unprovoked in his work place what is he likely to do if under the influence of drink/drugs in the social world. We all know what is happening in these situations and how we here several times a week about fatal stabbings/assaults. I personally know that if I knew this guy assaulted someone badly/fatally in the future I would be sorry I didn't prosecute him. I seem to always think worse case scenario. Sorry.


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## Goggin (14 Aug 2007)

Have to agree with KalEl. Is it really up to the people on this board to question the OP's version of events? Could it not be that the chef was upset for whatever reason and flipped. Thats not the Op's fault. It was an outrageous assault whatever happened and there can be no situation that condones this kind of behaviour. They could have been asked to leave the premises if they werent welcome.


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## new_user2007 (14 Aug 2007)

Thanks all. I'll get the money for my shirt and see if they offer anything else.  If not so be it.  I have not heard from the Gardi and if I do not before I accept money for the shirt I'll just leave it be.


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## scatriona (14 Aug 2007)

Goggin said:


> Have to agree with KalEl. Is it really up to the people on this board to question the OP's version of events?


 
Yes it is! The OP asked for peoples' opinions and they're not or shouldn't be giving them without knowing the full story. As we all know, there's 2 sides to every story.... anyway, the OP said in a previous post he was happy with their offer to pay for the shirt so...??

S


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## Flax (14 Aug 2007)

I know a chef who is violent. He beats up his wife all the time. Back in Korea (he's Korean) he was in a "triad" type of gang.

His wife has never pressed charges against him as she is terrified.

Who knows, this chef could be of his ilk.

I would make sure the Gardai have a full record of everything. People who lash out at strangers are often violent at home.


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## Madangan (14 Aug 2007)

If I were you and didnt want to go down an official compensation route nor did I want the chef to lose his job I would none the less want to see him punished  E.g insist on a face to face apology from him or a written one from him if you dont want to meet him and a payment from him to a charity of your choice with a receipt from the charity as proof otherwise he gets off with a telling off from his employer.  

Even if you had been messing it is totally unacceptable for him to behave in that manner and indeed would suggest to me that he has serious issues. Having to put his hand in his own pocket may at least begin to make him address his issues.

Something like a €1000 to Fr. Peter McVerrys fund or SDVP


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## z108 (15 Aug 2007)

Thrifty1 said:


> I actually cant figure out if you are arguing for or against my point....
> Are you saying the chef should be used to dealing with drunks and shouldnt get provoked?
> 
> Posts crossed.



Yeah that was one of my observations about anyone dealing with the public in such an establishment 
I'm probably trying to argue on the side of discovering truth and not about any polarised view or position.


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## new_user2007 (15 Aug 2007)

I would have usually retaliated but it came completely out of the blue to me and I was shocked that it had happened.  He then ran back behind his station so I would have had to chase him around the place to give him a kicking.  Who would have got into trouble then.

As for messing, loudness or previous encounters my answer is no.


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## Thirsty (16 Aug 2007)

> I would have usually retaliated


So these sort of attacks have happened to you before?


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

Kildrought said:


> So these sort of attacks have happened to you before?


 
It's as if the OP is on trial in this thread...I'm shocked at some people's attitude to be honest. He was attacked by a lunatic, yet he is the one getting quizzed as if he was a criminal of some kind.


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## Thirsty (16 Aug 2007)

Idle curiosity rather than quizzing....


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## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> It's as if the OP is on trial in this thread...I'm shocked at some people's attitude to be honest. He was attacked by a lunatic, yet he is the one getting quizzed as if he was a criminal of some kind.



I agree here. Its a shame when victims dont get enough support in our society. I honestly dont care if the chef had a chip on his shoulder, he assaulted a peaceful member of the public, a person he was paid to serve. He destroyed his shirt and in all likelihood ruined his evening.
The fact that the victim didnt lash out in retaliation is surely a sign of who was the better person.


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## CCOVICH (16 Aug 2007)

There is only one side presented here, so it's only reasonable that people ask questions of the OP.

If posters feel that there is an 'attack the victim' culture prevalent in Ireland, please start a thread in _Letting Off Steam_ on the topic, perhaps using this thread as an example.


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> It's as if the OP is on trial in this thread...I'm shocked at some people's attitude to be honest. He was attacked by a lunatic, yet he is the one getting quizzed as if he was a criminal of some kind.



In fairness his own comments aren't painting the picture of [SIZE=-1]Mahatma Gandhi[/SIZE]





new_user2007 said:


> I would have usually retaliated....I would have had to chase him around the place to give him a kicking



You can only go on the evidence given. The Chef committed an assault. 

Doesn't matter it was a case of misunderstanding. Though as the OP said themself this is a long story made short. So theres obviously more to it than just the chef lost the plot and assaulted someone for no reason. 


[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]


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## janedoe06 (16 Aug 2007)

No offence, But i admire your self control as well - i'm a girl and if some one came out and hit me for no apparent reason i'm telling u i might be small but no one would get away with that 

as regardless if u had been in this eating establishment before or Not

and if the background to this slap up , was picking up or getting mustard jars sound ridiculous

To be honest , regardless u were a paying customer - and should have been treated as same

There is CCTV to show what u were up to - which puts the liability on this Chef
regardless of him having a bad day or not , hitting u around does'nt show much respect
and does it mean that the restaurant are keeping him on

To be honest i 'd think this guy should be made an example of and if anything , i would'nt think the restaurant would like the publicity that their head chef can go around and hit people for what ever reason, and still get away with it

a personal apology is the least u should be get

i have to laugh people look for compensation for a lot less

and it is your perogitive at the end of day if u want to go ahead and launch a criminal assault against this person


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> In fairness his own comments aren't painting the picture of [SIZE=-1]Mahatma Gandhi[/SIZE]
> 
> You can only go on the evidence given. The Chef committed an assault.
> 
> Doesn't matter it was a case of misunderstanding. Though as the OP said themself this is a long story made short. So theres obviously more to it than just the chef lost the plot and assaulted someone for no reason.


 
I disagree...having 3 drinks is completely normal. Bringing back mustard jars to your table to test them is perfectly normal. What's the alternative? Squeez it on the floor? Try and gauge the weight of them? In fact, having empty containers on tables is bad form from the diner.
And I find no fault with the OP's comment that "he would usually have retaliated". I would have dropped the chef there and then as would the majority of men I'd imagine. His restraint was almost Gandhi-like!

The more I read and the more I think about this I think the OP should look for the chef's dismissal and financial compensation as an absolute minimum. As I said earlier, assuming I managed not to retaliate I would look for a minimum of €5000 compensation. I would speak to a solicitor and make the usual threats of Joe Duffy, Evening Herald etc etc.

You were assaulted for no reason at all by a member of staff in a diner. Liability has been admitted. There is video evidence of the incident and numerous witnesses. Pretty clear cut stuff folks.


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## askalot (16 Aug 2007)

If this attack had happened on the streets then there would probably be less debate about what the OP should do; call the cops. The fact that the attacker was working makes no difference, he deserves to be prosecuted and sacked.


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## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

What also strikes me is the chefs premeditated intent was obviously to hurt the OP. What would have happened if things had gone more wrong and the OP had been more seriously hurt with a blinded eye and a broken nose or worse?


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## ClubMan (16 Aug 2007)

askalot said:


> If this attack had happened on the streets then there would probably be less debate about what the OP should do; call the cops. The fact that the attacker was working makes no difference, he deserves to be prosecuted and sacked.


Yes - but the original poster is not prepared to pursue things in this way.


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> I disagree....I find no fault with the OP's comment that "he would usually have retaliated". I would have dropped the chef there and then as would the majority of men I'd imagine...



You're quoting out of context. My comments were in the context of answering why people would question the OP story. Re: chasing to giving them a "kicking" is well beyond self defence or normal retaliation. That its an assault by the chef based on the story given isn't doubt.


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

Replying to Kildrought......I haven't been in these situations before.  If it was to happen 'usually' I would expect myself to kick lumps out the lad as I'm 6' 4" and not exactly stick thin!  I was genuinely shocked at what happened and therfore didn't retaliate.  If it had been building up and I was expecting agro then I would have let me fists talk butr I was oblivious to the attack about to happen.  I was turned the other way socialising in my own group.


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## KalEl (16 Aug 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> You're quoting out of context. My comments were in the context of answering why people would question the OP story. Re: chasing to giving them a "kicking" is well beyond self defence or normal retaliation. That its an assault by the chef based on the story given isn't doubt.


 
You're entitled to your opinion..."kicking" is a euphemism for beating up though. Had it happened to me I would have beaten up the chef and I'd freely admit that.
There is no issue regarding context...the OP didn't attack the chef because he realised he'd most likely end up in trouble. Admirable restraint and fair play to him.


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

They wanted me to sign a disclaimer and all I was getting was the price of my shirt.  If they had made even a little bit more effort I wouls have accepted but because they didn't I have refused to sign it.  I have now asked them for the same treatment as any other customer in this scenario and they said they'll get back to me.  I have had no legal advice to date.


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## ClubMan (16 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> They wanted me to sign a disclaimer and all I was getting was the price of my shirt.  If they had made even a little bit more effort I wouls have accepted


What exactly do you mean by "a little more effort"?


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

good 1 LOL


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

even a poxy voucher for €50 would have been a jesture but they thought I was easy to fob off as I was polite and professional about it all


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

KalEl said:


> You're entitled to your opinion..."kicking" is a euphemism for beating up though. Had it happened to me I would have beaten up the chef and I'd freely admit that.
> There is no issue regarding context...the OP didn't attack the chef because he realised he'd most likely end up in trouble. Admirable restraint and fair play to him.



There issue of context if you part quote like that. tbh I don't see the difference between beating up and giving someone a kicking. You only have to look at the media to see where an unlucky blow, or a weak heart, or someone grabbing a knife leads once you go beyond self defence. No good being right if you're no longer around.


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## ClubMan (16 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> even a poxy voucher for €50 would have been a jesture but they thought I was easy to fob off as I was polite and professional about it all


But you originally said...


new_user2007 said:


> I was told I could get him fired but I just asked to see a written warning to be given to him and have the price of the shirt refunded.


... and now you seem to be changing your tune and looking for more?


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> even a poxy voucher for €50 would have been a jesture but they thought I was easy to fob off as I was polite and professional about it all



They are hoping you'll go away. leave the chef to attack someone else when he has another misunderstanding. I can't understand why you wouldn't pursue it legally considering their attitude.


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

since, and after talking to various people whom are professionals, I was told I was being too lenent and should ask for at least standard comp.


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## askalot (16 Aug 2007)

It is strange that the restaurant is happy to continue employing this man after he has attacked on of their customers. You probably have no way of knowing but is he an employee or owner/part owner? Asking you to sign a disclaimer shows that they are worried. Regardless of whether you wanted it or not they should have sacked him, I wonder what someone would have to do to get sacked from there? Probably dipping into the till is a sackable offense but assaulting a customer, no problem, sure they can brush that off.


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

askalot said:


> It is strange that the restaurant is happy to continue employing this man after he has attacked on of their customers. You probably have no way of knowing but is he an employee or owner/part owner? Asking you to sign a disclaimer shows that they are worried. Regardless of whether you wanted it or not they should have sacked him, I wonder what someone would have to do to get sacked from there? Probably dipping into the till is a sackable offense but assaulting a customer, no problem, sure they can brush that off.



or relative...


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

When I talked again to Head Office they said there was an ongoing investigation in gross misconduct.  I said, and still stand by, I do not want him to lose his job.  However, if he is found guilty he'll probably get the sack anyway.


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## Thrifty1 (16 Aug 2007)

I cant understand why the OP thinks it no effort to go down the civil (compensation) route but thinks its too much trouble to issue criminal proceedings.

If this chef is such a threat to society should we not be encouraging the OP to issue criminal proceeding and seek the punishment he deserves. A compensation payout will not affect the chef, the diner may be held vicariously liable and they will therefore have to pay. How is that punishment for the chef, at a minimum he would be sacked, but i doubt a job like that is hard to come by and no doubt the OP will cross paths with him again in another late night diner.
The OP in my opinion has no right to be so affronted when it is obvious he is ony after a payout from the diner and is not interested in a proper punishment for the chef.


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## Thrifty1 (16 Aug 2007)

New user, can i ask why you are so adamant that you dont want him to lose his job.
You feel this chef is unpredictable and violent, why would you wish for him to continue dealing with the public?


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## new_user2007 (16 Aug 2007)

I suppose I don't want him sacked because he may have a family, maybe from abroad, completely reliant on him and his income. He lashed out, any of us could do the same if we had a hard day etc. 

As for looking for compensation and not wanting legal proceedings that is correct. Does that make me a bad person? The diner is creaming off the celtic tiger with the prices they charge, as is everywhere, so its not gonna hit their pockets. If the situation was reversed I'm sure the person 'offended' would be looking for the shirt off my back.


Can't post replies to this section!
As for compo I don't really know whats acceptable. I asked to be treated the same as any other customer in this situation so I suppose they would generally offer €500-1000 but thats only a guess!

*LOOK HERE!*


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## ajapale (16 Aug 2007)

Moved from Legal & Financial issues to Letting Off Steam


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## Vanilla (16 Aug 2007)

It is not up to the OP whether or not criminal proceedings are brought. If an offence has been committed he can make a statement to the gardai and they and the DPP will make the decision to pursue the matter or not. 

The OP is, I believe, seeking advice on how much compensation to seek in monetary terms. Some posters have advised €5000- I don't believe that you would be awarded this kind of figure even if you went to the trouble and time of pursuing a civil claim against the diner. 

How much does the OP feel he should get? What would the OP be satisfied with?


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## nutty nut (16 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> I just want to know whether I am letting the diner off lightly by simply accepting the price of my ripped shirt or is there a standard compenation that they will give, and I'm entitled to, to avoid leagal proceedings.


I got as far as this post which is the second time the OP has mentioned the old COMPO word. Im not going to read any further. 

Its quite clear to me what the OP is up to here


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## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

nutty nut said:


> I got as far as this post which is the second time the OP has mentioned the old COMPO word. Im not going to read any further.
> 
> Its quite clear to me what the OP is up to here



If the story is as explained then I dont have a problem with the OP receiving compensation. He was assaulted and the diner (for not sacking the guy immediately) and chef (for being a vicious bully) should be taught a lesson and shown some consequences. Why should anyone begrudge compensation being given ?


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## nutty nut (16 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> If the story is as explained then I dont have a problem with the OP receiving compensation. He was assaulted and the diner (for not sacking the guy immediately) and chef (for being a vicious bully) should be taught a lesson and shown some consequences. Why should anyone begrudge compensation being given ?


First of all the OP (and a new user to boot) starts a thread here with the proverbial "long story short". We didnt get the long bit.

If its as short and clearcut as he says then I dont see the need for this thread at all and if that was the case then of course he is entitled to be compensated.

If it all happened like he said in his "short" version of events then all he has to do is get a solicitor and he's on the pig's back - no pun intended here. But in my opinion he is merely looking for advice and ideas to back up a compo case that is not as clear cut as he is saying.

To dispel any notion of alternative motives here perhaps the OP could PM one of the mods with all the details including names and let the mod check out the story. I would be more than happy to apologise for doubting the intentions if the OP was indeed correct in all of this.


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## Gabriel (16 Aug 2007)

new_user2007 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was in a diner last Saturday night and to keep a long story short was attacked by the chef.  He slapped me across the face and ripped my shirt for no reason that I knew of at the time.  It was a misunderstanding on his behalf as he thought I was up to no good.  I have since talked to the manager, viewed the CCTV and they are admitting that the chef was completely in the wrong.  I was told I could get him fired but I just asked to see a written warning to be given to him and have the price of the shirt refunded.
> 
> Am I being too lenient and should I persue further as they are a very, very well known establishment and have admitted that the chef should never have left his station and attacked me?  The CCTV shows him approaching me and lashing out without any instigation.............



I agree with Nutty...the short version just doesn't add up. There was a reason for him slapping you...you're just not telling us what that was.

If you're not injured and the chef is sorry why on earth would you want to take this further? Life is full of ups and downs. I'm sure the chef has already been roasted by his employer (no pun intended).
Accept his apology...if at all possible receive it in person from the chef. Then move on...and get a life...stop looking for compo just because other people told you to.


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## aircobra19 (16 Aug 2007)

nutty nut said:


> ...
> To dispel any notion of alternative motives here perhaps the OP could PM one of the mods with all the details including names and let the mod check out the story. I would be more than happy to apologise for doubting the intentions if the OP was indeed correct in all of this.



Theres the real world and then theres the internet. Just accept the story as is.


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## ClubMan (16 Aug 2007)

nutty nut said:


> To dispel any notion of alternative motives here perhaps the OP could PM one of the mods with all the details including names and let the mod check out the story. I would be more than happy to apologise for doubting the intentions if the OP was indeed correct in all of this.


Nobody on _AAM _should have to vouch for their posts in this way using the moderators as some sort of notary service. Obviously some people will post porkies and spoof stories. If this is one then so be it. On the other hand it might be fairer to err on the side of treating posts as genuine and in good faith other than when this is obviously not the case. Since the thread has been moved to _LOS _(by another moderator - not me as it happens) the original poster will not be able to respond until they attain _Frequent Poster_ status.


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## room305 (17 Aug 2007)

I find the replies in this thread perplexing. Even if the OP was up to something - perhaps he genuinely was building himself a little sandcastle with the mustard bottles for the amusement of his friends, so what? - it would be seen on the CCTV footage and the diner wouldn't be so worried as to want the OP to sign a waiver and they wouldn't have admitted full culpability.

My advice to the OP is to listen to KalEl. Also send the diner a registered letter outlining your version of what happened and a summary of their response to you. This way if it goes to court the diner will find it difficult to change their story without explaining why they didn't disagree with the statement in your letter. Explain that you consider their response so far to be wholly unsatisfactory and that you are considering taking legal advice on how best to proceed including the possibility of criminal proceedings against the chef.

Send the letter to the head office of the diner and as high up the food chain as possible. This is really a matter that warrants the attention of the managing director not a branch manager.


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## sinbadsailor (17 Aug 2007)

My god, just read this thread...

The full facts should have been posted regarding the incident. This would have halved the number of posts on this thread.
Why can't everyone just deal in facts alone, take personal experience, should I sue etc out of it. These are all emotional responses to this posters situation or a past situation of your own.

If we are all happy that we have the facts and it was unprovoked then follow the same road as you would do if a complete stranger came up to you in the street and slapped you for no reason, press charges or let it go.

It really is a simple one, and to be honest, didn't require a posting here for the person to figure out what they should do


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## ClubMan (17 Aug 2007)

sinbadsailor said:


> Why can't everyone just deal in facts alone, take personal experience, should I sue etc out of it.


Well one interpretation of the original post is that it was basically a "should I sue" question or something along those lines:


new_user2007 said:


> Am I being too lenient and should I persue further as they are a very, very well known establishment and have admitted that the chef should never have left his station and attacked me? The CCTV shows him approaching me and lashing out without any instigation.............


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