# How do you address your doctor?



## Staples (6 May 2008)

I normally address my doctor by his first name.  He's about my own age and I'd feel a bit odd calling him "Doctor".  My sister is more traditional about these things and thinks people, including doctors, should be addressed by their title until and unless patients invited to do otherwise.

What do people think?  Personally, I thought that level of formaility had gone.


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## Vanilla (6 May 2008)

I address him as 'Doctor'.


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## Purple (6 May 2008)

When I am buying goods or services if someone used my first name I use his or her first name.


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## Graham_07 (6 May 2008)

What about these cold-phone-calls where the never before spoken to rep from company xyz comes on the phone looking for "firstname". That bugs the life out of me. Fair enough after initial contact but am I alone in thinking this is overfamiliar for someone one has never met?


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## Purple (6 May 2008)

Graham_07 said:


> What about these cold-phone-calls where the never before spoken to rep from company xyz comes on the phone looking for "firstname". That bugs the life out of me. Fair enough after initial contact but am I alone in thinking this is overfamiliar for someone one has never met?



Yep, when I'm the seller I stay formal 'till asked or told to use first names.


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## truthseeker (6 May 2008)

I call my GP by her first name (at her invitation), my physio Dr Xyz, and my consultant Mr Xyz (but I was actually planning on asking him should I address him Mr, Dr or other).

I tend to address people formally unless invited to do otherwise.


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## Purple (6 May 2008)

truthseeker said:


> I call my GP by her first name (at her invitation), my physio Dr Xyz, and my consultant Mr Xyz (but I was actually planning on asking him should I address him Mr, Dr or other).
> 
> I tend to address people formally unless invited to do otherwise.



Do they call you by your first name?


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## truthseeker (6 May 2008)

Gp - yes.
Physio - she generally doesnt use my name but says things like 'great girl', 'good woman' - she's very jolly hockey sticks 
Consultant - I dont think he has called me anything.


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## Caveat (6 May 2008)

Have always called my doctor by his first name.  As it happens, he introduced himself that way as far as I remember.


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## Jock04 (6 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> Have always called my doctor by his first name. As it happens, he introduced himself that way as far as I remember.


 

Like this?


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## gearoidmm (6 May 2008)

Consultants in hospitals usually like to be referred to as Mr or Dr but more junior doctors prefer to be addressed by their first names and introduce themselves that way.  Paramedical staff in the hospital do the same, calling registrars and SHOs by their first names and consultants by their titles.

Not so sure about GPs, each one different I suppose.


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## Complainer (6 May 2008)

First name only. I wouldn't be comfortable calling anyone who is providing a service to me as Mr or Mrs


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## rmelly (6 May 2008)

Off point, but why are consultants addressed as Mr / Ms / Mrs etc? Is it purely to show seniority?


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## Vanilla (6 May 2008)

Complainer said:


> First name only. I wouldn't be comfortable calling anyone who is providing a service to me as Mr or Mrs


 
Personally I feel I can show respect to any one I deal with, whether they are providing a service to me or not. 

I don't have an issue with calling a person by their title but when people do I think its an inferiority thing.


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## Complainer (6 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Personally I feel I can show respect to any one I deal with, whether they are providing a service to me or not.
> 
> I don't have an issue with calling a person by their title but when people do I think its an inferiority thing.


Oh enough of the clever legal nitpicking and amatuer psychoanalysis. I can show respect to anyone I deal with, whether they are providing a service to me or not. Please don't try to imply otherwise. I don't need to address somebody as Mr or Mrs to show respect.


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## gramlab (6 May 2008)

Call my fella doc. Have 2 young kids and I think he calls me ATM


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## Brianne (7 May 2008)

Consultant physicians are called doctor, only consultant surgeons go by Mr, Mrs,or Ms.


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## gearoidmm (7 May 2008)

Brianne said:


> Consultant physicians are called doctor, only consultant surgeons go by Mr, Mrs,or Ms.


 
Anyone who has done their fellowship exams and thus become a fellow of the royal college of surgeons call themselves Mr.  Most surgical registrars would be Mr and occasionally the odd SHO manages to finish the exams before being promoted to registrar.  All physicians are Dr.


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## Vanilla (7 May 2008)

gramlab said:


> Call my fella doc. Have 2 young kids and I think he calls me ATM


 

LOL. I know the feeling. And then there's the inevitable prescription...


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

gearoidmm said:


> Anyone who has done their fellowship exams and thus become a fellow of the royal college of surgeons call themselves Mr.  Most surgical registrars would be Mr and occasionally the odd SHO manages to finish the exams before being promoted to registrar.  All physicians are Dr.


Surgeons don't use the title doctor because for many years they were not doctors. Surgery used to be carried out by barbers (hence the red and white pole which denotes bloody bandages). Barbers were the guys with the sharpest knives and surgery used to involve removing limbs. The quicker the surgeon was the less the chance the patient would die of shock and/or blood loss. 

As for the inferiority complex thing, I think it has more to do with equality. If a doctor wants to call me Mr then I will call him/her doctor. I do not think that it is appropriate that one person should use formal title and the other not. 
Maybe it goes back to school when teachers were Mr./Ms. and the children were "you" .


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## Vanilla (7 May 2008)

I don't understand how calling someone 'Doctor' puts them in a superior position no matter what they call me. My doctor is a doctor, so I call him 'Doctor', whether he chooses to address me by my first or last name is irrelevant. I am his equal either way.


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I am his equal either way.


We've only your word for that


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## truthseeker (7 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I don't understand how calling someone 'Doctor' puts them in a superior position no matter what they call me. My doctor is a doctor, so I call him 'Doctor', whether he chooses to address me by my first or last name is irrelevant. I am his equal either way.


 
Exactly - and its a testament to my own (and yours Vanilla) good manners that we choose to address someone with their title no matter what they choose to address us as.

If I met a Baron Id call him Baron, if I met a priest Id call him Father (despite me having no religious beliefs). Its just a matter of having good manners IMO.

Purple - enjoyed the bit of history re surgeons, I am being sliced open by my own consultant surgeon shortly, Ill ask him for a quick hair do while Im in there


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## MrMan (7 May 2008)

> Exactly - and its a testament to my own (and yours Vanilla) good manners that we choose to address someone with their title no matter what they choose to address us as.



Is it not a bit old fashioned though? If we were to address people by there working title would it not go to all jobs and the likes of hello mr bank manager, hello janitor etc.


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## truthseeker (7 May 2008)

MrMan said:


> Is it not a bit old fashioned though? If we were to address people by there working title would it not go to all jobs and the likes of hello mr bank manager, hello janitor etc.


 
That is exactly how I address people, if I dont know the surname I call them Sir, Miss or Madam until I do know it or am invited to use first names.


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## Vanilla (7 May 2008)

MrMan said:


> Is it not a bit old fashioned though? If we were to address people by there working title would it not go to all jobs and the likes of hello mr bank manager, hello janitor etc.


 

But it is not common practice to address a person by their occupation- this only applies to some occupations only- like Doctor. I'd find it very strange if someone started addressing me as 'solicitor'. Most people address me by my first name, some people address me by my second name. Either way it doesn't bother me.


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## ClubMan (7 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Most people address me by my first name, some people address me by my second name. Either way it doesn't bother me.


Fair play bud.


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## Staples (7 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> But it is not common practice to address a person by their occupation- this only applies to some occupations only- like Doctor. I'd find it very strange if someone started addressing me as 'solicitor'. Most people address me by my first name, some people address me by my second name. Either way it doesn't bother me.


 

My original point is not related to the doctor's occupation  - more to his/her title.

If the logic of addressing someone by their formal title is sound, why isn't it universally applied?  If it was we'd address each other as mister/mrs, etc if we knew the person and as sir/madam if we didn't.  It'd be like living in a 50s movie, for heaven's sake.  

I started work in the public service in the early 80s when the last of formalities were still present.  Older people in fairly junior management position were still being addressed as Mr/Mrs etc and it was a welcome sign of maturity and confidence that their successors demanded no such formality.

In today's society, I think it's excessively meek to wait until invited before addressing someone (anyone) formally.  For example, if a friend were to introduce another friend of his to me as say John Smith, I wouldn't feel it necessary to call him Mr Smith until he said otherwise.  If he doesn't like me calling him John, he's free to say so. 

An intersting angle mentioned earlier about the nature of the vendor/buyer relationship in the case of doctors.  The same protocols don't seem to exist as for most other customer relationships.


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## Caveat (7 May 2008)

But we must remember that this perceived lack of formality seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomenon - most of continental Europe, AFAIK, retain quite formal terms of address in all social and business scenarios unless a degree of familiarity is established. The English too are considerably more formal than the Irish in this respect.


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## Graham_07 (7 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> The English too are considerably more formal than the Irish in this respect.


 
Agreed, many times, I've heard English people booking in hotels or otherwise giving name and when asked for the name  refer to themselves as "Mr" or "Mrs" "Surname" with no first name being given at all. I would never give my name in that fashion.


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

Caveat said:


> But we must remember that this perceived lack of formality seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomenon - most of continental Europe, AFAIK, retain quite formal terms of address in all social and business scenarios unless a degree of familiarity is established. The English too are considerably more formal than the Irish in this respect.




I do some business in Germany and I agree that it's much more formal but everyone is addressed by their title. For Example "Herr Doctor" would use "Herr Director", "Herr Engineer" etc when talking to their patients. If first names were used they would be used by both parties.


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## Megan (7 May 2008)

According to this we shouldn't be calling them 'Doctor' atall.
 Medical profession (Wikipedia)
The term doctor has always been reserved for people who have obtained a doctoral degree in a specific subject, therefore it is incorrect to refer to a person with a medical degree as a Doctor. With the passage of time however physicians craved the status of the real doctors and begin to adopt it as their own. All persons who earn a medical degree are improperly called "doctor", although from the nineteenth century onward, the term "doctor" has been commonly used as a synonym for "physician" in Anglophone and many other countries. This term is now commonly used as a title of address for physicians, whether or not they hold a Doctor of Medicine degree. The primary medical qualification in the UK and in many Commonwealth countries are the 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery' degrees (MB BS, BM BS, MB BCh, MB ChB, BM BCh or MB BChir, depending on the University granting the award). In the UK the title "Dr" is officially conferred by the General Medical Council to graduates whose names are included on the list of 'registered medical practitioners', a prerequisite to medical practice in the UK. After qualification, medical practitioners may read for the postgraduate research degree of 'Doctor of Medicine'. By convention however, if a practitioner qualifies as a Surgeon he/she will drop the


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## Vanilla (7 May 2008)

Yeah, one of my brothers has a PhD, another is a doctor- the one with the PhD makes a point of telling the other that he is not a 'real' doctor...


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## cruchan09 (7 May 2008)

We used to say in collge that a medical doctor was an honary title as they don't actually have a doctorate. I have a PhD and only use the title 'Dr' when applying for a loan, credit card, etc. It works a treat 

What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

cruchan09 said:


> We used to say in collge that a medical doctor was an honary title as they don't actually have a doctorate. I have a PhD and only use the title 'Dr' when applying for a loan, credit card, etc. It works a treat
> 
> What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?



If a physiotherapists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc called themselves 'doctor' when talking to me (in a professional capacity) I would ask them to explain why they did so.


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## truthseeker (7 May 2008)

Purple said:


> If a physiotherapists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc called themselves 'doctor' when talking to me (in a professional capacity) I would ask them to explain why they did so.


 
My physiotherapist does have a PhD, she calls herself Dr, I do too.


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## Staples (7 May 2008)

truthseeker said:


> she calls herself Dr,


 
Does she talk to herself much? 

 Maybe she should see a doctor - with or without a Phd.


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## Gordanus (7 May 2008)

cruchan09 said:


> What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?



Having worked in hospitals for years, I know they probably have PhDs.  With qualification inflation everyone will have one soon.

The job title used as a form of address..........when I was young (1960s) the elderly unmarried lady living in the house across the way was known as Nurse Hennessy to all and sundry - and that's what we all called her.   All my parents friends were known to us as 'Aunt' or 'Uncle' whatever; my piano teacher was Miss Davis.   Now any young git phoning me feels free to address me by my first name and I don't feel able to say 'call me Ms Gordanus'. 

The registrars were all known by their first names; SOME of the consultants too.....but you had to be careful!


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## Purple (7 May 2008)

So Ms Gordanus (), if Dr. **** introduced themselves as Dr. **** would you be happy if they used your first name or referred to you as Ms. Gordanus?


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## cruchan09 (8 May 2008)

> Having worked in hospitals for years, I know they probably have PhDs. With qualification inflation everyone will have one soon.


 
I work in a simlar sector and I have to agree. A PhD is like a leaving cert now, everybody has one Well, not quite, but it does bug my friends with masters degrees to say so. 



> My physiotherapist does have a PhD, she calls herself Dr, I do too.


 
And rightly so. What annoys me is a plaque outside a dental surgery with something like:

Dr. Mary Murphy, BDentSc (or something similar).

Probably wouldn't botehr me so much if I hadn't spent 4 years getting my PhD.


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## Caveat (8 May 2008)

But is the issue not more the term of address, in a practical situation?

Presumably anyone with a PhD has the *right* to call themselves 'doctor' but it's how they relate to people - e.g. in a medical sense, whether the patient does (or should) say "Yes Doctor, no Doctor" or whatever - and also whether the doctor expects this formality/professional deference during conversation.


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## Purple (8 May 2008)

cruchan09 said:


> Probably wouldn't botehr me so much if I hadn't spent 4 years getting my PhD.


 A relation of my wife was in an ER in the States and introduced himself as Dr. **** (he has an engineering doctorate). The medical doctor started to explain the problem in detail and the clown of a relation had to explain that his doctorate was not in medicine. I appreciate that it must irk those who have a PhD that those who use the title of Doctor most usually do not have doctorates but that sort of carry on it idiotic.


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## Remix (8 May 2008)

Purple said:


> A relation of my wife was in an ER in the States and introduced himself as Dr. **** (he has an engineering doctorate). The medical doctor started to explain the problem in detail and the clown of a relation had to explain that his doctorate was not in medicine. I appreciate that it must irk those who have a PhD that those who use the title of Doctor most usually do not have doctorates but that sort of carry on it idiotic.


 
A very similar scenario occurs in the movie "Wildhogs" with Tim Allen as the patient. Funny scene too !

A while back I worked a brief stint in the field of Nuclear Medicine where Physics PhDs work directly with medical doctors. The PhDs were all using their Dr. title. One older nurse found it all a bit confusing and requested that only "real" doctors use the title.


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## becky (8 May 2008)

Remix said:


> One older nurse found it all a bit confusing and requested that only "real" doctors use the title.


 
My friend has a PHD and lectures in a university. 

His daughter arrived home from playing with her friend whos daddys is a consultant to tell him he wasn't the right kind of doctor


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## cruchan09 (9 May 2008)

> A relation of my wife was in an ER in the States and introduced himself as Dr. **** (he has an engineering doctorate). The medical doctor started to explain the problem in detail and the clown of a relation had to explain that his doctorate was not in medicine. I appreciate that it must irk those who have a PhD that those who use the title of Doctor most usually do not have doctorates but that sort of carry on it idiotic.


 
Yeah, I would never use the title doctor in a hospital setting for that reason. Like I said, other than when applying for credit I rarely use it. When I was a self employed consultant (in a field bearing no relation to what I did my PhD in) it did help to sometimes use it. 




> A while back I worked a brief stint in the field of Nuclear Medicine where Physics PhDs work directly with medical doctors. The PhDs were all using their Dr. title. One older nurse found it all a bit confusing and requested that only "real" doctors use the title.


 
That reminds of a stroy about a British policitican I read a few years ago, can't remember the name but he used the title doctor. One tabloid in a critical article mentioned the fact that the politician insisted on using the title 'Dr' even though he only had a PhD in nuclear physics


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## Purple (9 May 2008)

cruchan09 said:


> One tabloid in a critical article mentioned the fact that the politician insisted on using the title 'Dr' even though he only had a PhD in nuclear physics


 
Dr. Garrett Fitzgerald always used his non-medical doctorate which was in economics (which is ironic considering the balls he made of managing the economy when he was in power).


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## Staples (9 May 2008)

Tony O'Reilly insist on being referred to as Dr (followed by his initials AJF).  AFAIK, his doctorate was honourary.

Anyway, he dropped it like it a hot potato when he got the knighthood.


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## Purple (9 May 2008)

Staples said:


> Tony O'Reilly insist on being referred to as Dr (followed by his initials AJF).  AFAIK, his doctorate was honourary.
> 
> Anyway, he dropped it like it a hot potato when he got the knighthood.


He could insist on Dr. Sir AJF O'Reilly...


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## bullbars (9 May 2008)

cruchan09 said:


> That reminds of a stroy about a British policitican I read a few years ago, can't remember the name but he used the title doctor. One tabloid in a critical article mentioned the fact that the politician insisted on using the title 'Dr' even though he only had a PhD in nuclear physics


 
He "only" has a PhD in nuclear physics?! As if they come in you collect ten crisp packets and send away for one!


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## ClubMan (9 May 2008)

Purple said:


> A relation of my wife was in an ER in the States and introduced himself as Dr. ****


Did a bleep go off when he said his own name or something?


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## Purple (9 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Did a bleep go off when he said his own name or something?


Yes, that's exactly what happened. How did you know?


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## Megan (9 May 2008)

This post is really sorting the "Wheat from the Chaff". We have found out alot about posters on here. They are either Dr. with PhDs or Dr. without or have sisters, brothers or friends who have PhDs or who are just 'Doctors'.


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## Vanilla (9 May 2008)

Megan said:


> This post is really sorting the "Wheat from the Chaff". We have found out alot about posters on here. They are either Dr. with PhDs or Dr. without or have sisters, brothers or friends who have PhDs or who are just 'Doctors'.


 
Someone had to say it. Well done, Megan, you said what we were all thinking. I've noticed the quality some of the posters being a little under par lately, shall we say and it's nice to find like minded people.


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## Staples (10 May 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I've noticed the quality some of the posters being a little under par lately, shall we say and it's nice to find like minded people.


 
I know.  It's awful when riff-raff invade one's space - even cyberspace.


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## AlastairSC (16 May 2008)

truthseeker said:


> I call my physio Dr Xyz, and my consultant Mr Xyz...


 
Are these Polish doctors?


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## truthseeker (16 May 2008)

AlastairSC said:


> Are these Polish doctors?


 
Ukranian


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## Megan (16 May 2008)

gearoidmm said:


> Anyone who has done their fellowship exams and thus become a fellow of the royal college of surgeons call themselves Mr.  Most surgical registrars would be Mr and occasionally the odd SHO manages to finish the exams before being promoted to registrar.  All physicians are Dr.



What if the person is female - would she still call herself Mr. ?


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## NicolaM (16 May 2008)

Probably not..
Ms...


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## Purple (17 May 2008)

Medical doctors are called doctor because they doctor to people, not because they hold a qualification.


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