# Adjoining Extensions



## JML123 (4 Aug 2010)

Hi,
We are currently discussing with our neighbour the possibility of both of us getting similar extensions. Both are standard 3 bed semis and we are both filling in the gap on an L Shaped Kitchen/Dining area. Both are within the required area. We are both going to use the same builder.

Some questions we have

Do we need planning permission? 
Do we need to get an architect involved? 
Do we need to get a contract drawn up between us?

If either choose not to go ahead, can the other build on the boundary without planning permission? 

Has anyone else done similar and any pitfalls we need to avoid?

Thanks


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## 4poster (6 Aug 2010)

JML123 said:


> Hi,
> We are currently discussing with our neighbour the possibility of both of us getting similar extensions. Both are standard 3 bed semis and we are both filling in the gap on an L Shaped Kitchen/Dining area. Both are within the required area. We are both going to use the same builder.
> 
> Some questions we have
> ...


Is the extension to the rear? What floor area is each? Heights?



JML123 said:


> Do we need to get an architect involved?


You would be best advised to get an Architect, Architectural Technician or Engineer involved.



JML123 said:


> Do we need to get a contract drawn up between us?


Yes, and a contract between yourselves and the Arch/AT/Eng, and a contract between yourselves and the builder.



JML123 said:


> If either choose not to go ahead, can the other build on the boundary without planning permission?


You will need the neighbours permission.


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## onq (8 Aug 2010)

JML123 said:


> Hi,
> We are currently discussing with our neighbour the possibility of both of us getting similar extensions. Both are standard 3 bed semis and we are both filling in the gap on an L Shaped Kitchen/Dining area. Both are within the required area. We are both going to use the same builder.
> 
> Some questions we have
> ...



If its within the exempted development limit (check this), I suggest you get the proposal drawn up, check your services arrangements, obtain a Section 5 Declaration (€80 and 4 weeks to wait) and draw up leases suitable for both titles.

If you are thinking of each going separately, at least design the party wall to be capable of being used by both of you. You again need a section 5 to be sure, because one going it alone is building outside his boundary if the party wall needs taking down and rebuilding.

For all of the above and architect is your best bet, with a technician a close second. A draughtsman who has specialised in hosue extensions may be sufficient in a pinch, but typically he may not be able to certify.

Regardless of who does what and when, you may need an engineers input in relation to the foundations specification and detailing to avoid cracking and differential settlement.

You should assess what you're doing to the drainage to ensure any re-arrangements will work.

ONQ

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied        upon                                   as a defence or support - in    and     of     itself  -         should       legal        action     be            taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise      in                                     Real Life with rights to   inspect    and      issue         reports    on     the         matters      at          hand.


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## roytheboyo (8 Aug 2010)

I just completed this with my neighbour.  No contracts, didnt get an engineer, didnt need planning, checked on rules on local authority website and was outside criteria (mainly in relation to area of garden remaining.  Was a great success.  If you get a decent builder who knows what he is at you wont need engineer


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## JML123 (10 Aug 2010)

Thanks to all
I know that permission is needed if one went on their own but is planning permission needed if the wall is build on the boundary and obviously foundation on the other persons property. 
Would a legal agreement also be needed? Is there an impact on a future sale of either house?

Its within all exemptions guidelines regarding size.

I assume a section 5 is a certificate of exemption? Isn't there also a certificate needed when work is complete?

We are thinking of both doing it using the same builder. What could we expect to spend on an architect/technician.


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## onq (10 Aug 2010)

roytheboyo said:


> I just completed this with my neighbour.  No contracts, didnt get an engineer, didnt need planning, checked on rules on local authority website and was outside criteria (mainly in relation to area of garden remaining.  Was a great success.  If you get a decent builder who knows what he is at you wont need engineer



roytheboyo,

You should read the regulations a second time.

Exempted development specifically relates to development within the curtiledge of a property, while the demolition of a party wall and its rebuilding requires work to be done within the adjoining property. Granted it may only be 115mm within the adjoining property, but that's the millstone of justice - it grinds slow but very fine.

Contracts are put in place to try to ensure things go right, and to define equitable remedies when they don't - your choice.

Enjoy the cracks when they appear.

ONQ

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied         upon                                   as a defence or support - in     and     of     itself  -         should       legal        action      be            taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise       in                                     Real Life with rights to    inspect    and      issue         reports    on     the         matters       at          hand.


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## JML123 (11 Aug 2010)

based on this, my reading is that both people in my scenario require planning permission as both will be building on the boundary.


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## onq (11 Aug 2010)

If they both build at the same time and exercise their rights to build, they could be said to be building within their respective boundaries by consent - this is why I suggest a formal arrangement, to ensure neither can play silly buggers, but a Section 5 Declaration should be sought to ensure compliance with the demolition requirements of the recent 2008 S.I. amending planning regulations, which is yet to be tested and may be interpreted differently by each local authority. This also interacts with the Land Conveyancing Law Reform Act and both IMO need legal interpretation even if people wish to proceed together under the exempted development schedule.

ONQ

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied          upon                                   as a defence or support -  in     and     of     itself  -         should       legal        action       be            taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise        in                                     Real Life with rights to     inspect    and      issue         reports    on     the         matters        at          hand.


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## Pope John 11 (11 Aug 2010)

roytheboyo said:


> .......Was a great success. If you get a decent builder who knows what he is at you wont need engineer


 
Ignore this advice, this is not the way to go. Both Architects & Engineers are qualified for their reasons, employ one/or both, & sleep well at night


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## JML123 (10 Sep 2010)

if only 1 goes ahead is their a "right to light" for the other person?  Everything else is within exemption guidleines.


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## onq (10 Sep 2010)

JML123 said:


> if only 1 goes ahead is their a "right to light" for the other person?  Everything else is within exemption guidleines.



Prescription may refer to the establishment or extinguishment of rights due to the passage of time>

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Prescription

"Rights to Ancient Lights" comes under the 1832 Prescription Act (extended to Ireland by an Act of 1858 but not ot Ireland0 and have been variously interpreted by the Courts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light

In general it is accepted by most people and planners that normal incident light is sufficient for uman activities in houses.

My recollection of hte test case was that it involved a specifc use that needed a certain quantum of light to continue.

The rights established by the Act, if any still accrue, seldom seem to be invoked. A trip over to the askaboutlaw forum might be advised in this instance.

ONQ

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied           upon                                   as a defence or support -   in     and     of     itself  -         should       legal         action       be            taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise         in                                     Real Life with rights to      inspect    and      issue         reports    on     the          matters        at          hand.


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