# 1.5% Credit Card Charge with www.directski.com



## bredaghx (20 Dec 2006)

I recenly booked a ski trip with www.directski.com 

When I went To pay my 989 euro for the package I was asked for a *1.5%* *fee for paying by credit card.* *IS this legal ??.* 

So they are charging *14.83 euro for paying by credit card.* 
They are 4 people travelling so direct ski will profit *59.84* by this little fee.

I was not made aware of this fee when booking my package. 
Also when the Deposit was paid by credit card and they did not ask for a credit charge, all of  sudden are they looking for a credit card charge


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## z105 (20 Dec 2006)

Inform your credit card company of the charge and ask is it proper that the company (DirectSki) should be charging you for use of the credit card.

Let us know what the CC company say.


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## ClubMan (20 Dec 2006)

If the charge was explained up front (e.g. on the online booking form) then I think it's perfectly legal. However their booking form and terms & conditions seem to make no mention of any _CC _surcharge. As such it may well be questionable. Ask the [broken link removed] maybe?


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## RainyDay (21 Dec 2006)

bredaghx said:


> I recenly booked a ski trip with www.directski.com
> 
> When I went To pay my 989 euro for the package I was asked for a *1.5%* *fee for paying by credit card.* *IS this legal ??.*
> 
> ...



I've just stepped through the booking process on their website, and the 1.5% charge is clearly visible on the page where I'm asked to enter CC details to pay a deposit. Are you saying that this was different when you paid your deposit?

It is a little sneaky that this charge isn't mentioned until the very end of the booking process. No mention of it in their terms & conditions or 'important information' webpages.


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## bredaghx (21 Dec 2006)

1. Yes you are correct. the 1.5% charge is stated beside the fields where you enter your credit card to pay your deposit. I was not aware of this as (It was another member of the group who actually paid the deposit.)

2. It does not mention this charge until just before you enter your credit card details. This is much to late.

3. The Credit Card Charge is not mentioned in the Terms and conditions.

4. I rang my Direct Ski and they told me that Visa had brought in a new 1.5% fee on credit card transactions in Sept. (_funny thing that they introduced the fee before people start booking their ski trips_) Note : I booked with Direct ski last year and the charge did not apply.

5. I also rang Visa and they said that they did not charge 1.5% fee on Directski. They also said that Directski are free to charge whatever % they want on hanling credit card. Visa have no control over what they charge.
6. I have mailed the [broken link removed] and they are to get back to me on this issue. I intend to follow it up and will keep you posted of the outcome.


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## bredaghx (21 Dec 2006)

*Re: 1.5% Credit Card Charge with www.directski.com- Reply received from ODCA*

*Here is the Reply I just received from the ODCA.* 

Our Ref: 06 / 048786

Dear Mr. Shorten,

The issue of surcharging on credit cards is not covered by legislation 
in
Ireland.

This Office has been in contact with Visa International, MasterCard and
laser. These companies have rules for the operation of their respective
card schemes, which must be adhered to by all parties who participate 
in
the schemes, merchants, card issuers and banks. Each companyâ€™s rules
includes a rule that prohibits a merchant from imposing a credit card
surcharge where this discriminates against customers who pay by credit 
card
as against customers who pay in some other way, for example by cash, 
cheque
etc. Visa International refers to their rule as the â€œno 
discrimination
ruleâ€.

A cardholder that has a surcharge imposed on them by a merchant in 
breach
of the â€œno discrimination ruleâ€ is entitled to complain to their 
card
issuer (i.e. the bank that issued the card) and the card issuer should 
take
up the matter on their behalf and seek to have the surcharge refunded 
to
them. I must point out the surcharging is not illegal.

However Mastercard has recently abolished its â€œno discrimination 
ruleâ€

Statutory Instrument 103 of 1997 allows promoters of concerts and
theatrical events to surcharge providing that they advertise the 
additional
charge or notifies the customer before they pay. This is usually 
applied to
online and telephone ticket bookings. Recently the travel business has 
used
SI 103 to justify charging a surcharge.

The Irish banks voted against the change and they did not want the 
â€œno
discrimination ruleâ€ abolished. The only way to prevent surcharging 
is to
have the law changed to prevent it.

I hope this information is of benefit to you.


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## ClubMan (21 Dec 2006)

I didn't go as far as the _CC _details page. If it states the charge there then I think it's all legit. This is not too late since you have not yet paid and can decline if you don't like the charge.


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## Lorz (21 Dec 2006)

As a Credit Card Merchant, we are charged 3.5% on all Credit Card transactions.  Incidentally we don't charge our customers for paying by CC - just glad to have received payment.


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## z105 (21 Dec 2006)

Hi Bredaghx

This is what I figured, the CC companies DO NOT like merchants charging surcharges on their cards - though not illegal, you might let us know what the outcome is with your CC company and Directski.??


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## RainyDay (21 Dec 2006)

bredaghx said:


> 1. Yes you are correct. the 1.5% charge is stated beside the fields where you enter your credit card to pay your deposit. I was not aware of this as (It was another member of the group who actually paid the deposit.)


In all fairness, if someone else did the original booking/deposit and failed to communicate on this issue with you, that is not Directski's problem.


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## Emily123 (21 Dec 2006)

I found that it was standard for travel agencies to have an additional cost if you paid by CC. Such a pain since by paying by CC you have extra insurance protection, as far as I know.


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## MsGinger (22 Dec 2006)

I've also booked with Directski this year and I was told that there was a 1.5% charge for paying by Visa or Mastercard, before making any deposit payments. You can make payment by Laser with no charge though, so I have transferred all money to my current account and paid by laser.

I have to also say that the savings in booking our trip with directski compared to any other provider would have more than made up for the 1.5% charge though, if I had had to pay by visa.

(for the record I'm not affiliated with directski, but have booked with them on 2 occasions and been very happy with price & service).


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## GreatDane (26 Dec 2006)

Hi

It seems to me that this "fiddle" is widespread throughout the tourism industry, with Ryanair, Aer Lingus etc also applying these charges.

Only solution here is:
* refuse to pay and seek alternatives
* lobby the appropriate government minister to take action (a load of e-mails on the same issue waiting for him / her after Xmas might be a start )

Cheers

G>


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## directski (29 Dec 2006)

Hi,

Anthony here in Directski.com. I just wanted to provide a little bit of background why we expose our Credit Card fees.

Up to this summer, we didn't expose Credit Card fees as a separate cost so the fee remained "hidden" in the overall cost of the holiday. The result was that most of our customers used credit cards to pay for their holidays meaning that the Credit Card companies were receiving over 2% of every holiday sold.

In an effort to change customer behaviour and reduce our holiday prices, we removed the "hidden" charge and exposed it as a separate cost. The result is that, now, very few of our customers opt to use credit cards to pay for their holidays but instead use cheque, cash, bank transfer or debit card - none of which attract a fee even though they often require more administrative effort on our part.

The upshot is that, as a result of this change, our customers pay an average of 1.5% less for their holiday than they would have if we hadn't exposed the fee.

We do highlight this charge prior to booking but, occasionally, group leaders don't pass on the information to their pary members. On the back of bredaghx's comments and this thread, we will be changing our website to include mention of the fee earlier in the booking process.

Happy skiing!

Anthony


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## GreatDane (29 Dec 2006)

Hi Anthony, 

Top marks to you for being willing to contribute to the conversation & publically standing over your business' practice.

I hear what your saying, but the bottom line here is that there are many many retailers, in various sectors (many of whom are on lower margins than the part of travel industry you are operating in), who are absorbing these credit card charges, so I don't think there is any reason why you should not consider doing likewise (given you will get guaranteed payment, lower admin costs, processing time before you have cleared funds etc).

Nonetheless, your suggestion that your website will be altered to highlight the options & costs associated with paying by credit card is very positive.

As I understand it, the 2% payable to the merchant services provider is open to some negotiation, so I'd suggest you consider this for the benifit of your own business... then obviously pass part of it onto your customer needless to say  

Cheers

G>


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Dec 2006)

Garrett

I think you are missing the point. Why should any company absorb the charge? 

It's cheaper for a company to provide a service to people who pay with their Laser Card than to people who pay with their Credit Card. If the company "absorbs" the charge, it means that the Laser Card payers will be subsidising the Credit Card payers. 

On a separate point, can you be more careful in the language you use. Describing this as a "fiddle" leaves me open to defamation, not you.  You can use the word "practice". 

Brendan


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## elcato (2 Jan 2007)

Just to add, I booked a holiday with a travel agent a few years ago and when I rang up to pay the remainder after deposit I was told of the surcharge. I said I would drop in the cash to them instead. I decided to check with the CC provider and they stated that if the transaction is done over the phone or online then they would accept the practice but that if I went in personally and gave them my CC they asked me to get a seperate bill for the 1.5% and they would refund me. I did this and subsequently got the refund off the CC company promptly. For the record I agree with Anthony's post above as long as there is an option to pay in other ways. I'm not aware of being able to do this with Ryanair for instance.


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## muppetini (2 Jan 2007)

Breda

I used to work for a travel agent who applied the same charge.  Whenever a customer queried this they were obliged to issue a refund.  However, your credit card company should also apply this refund.


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## CCOVICH (2 Jan 2007)

Why were they obliged to issue a refund?  Were they applying the charge without informing the consumer in advance?


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## bredaghx (4 Jan 2007)

Here is a update on where this issue stands at the Moment. 

I am taking the ODCA advice and I have written to My Credit Card issuer and Visa. I hope that they will both investigate this charge and refund all or part of the fee. I am waiting for a response from both my bank and Visa.

I hope that I will be successful, considering that the No Discrimination Rule has been broken because I was discriminated by directski.com for paying by my Visa Card.

I am not happy with Anthony’s comments from Directski.com.
Quote "*The upshot is that, as a result of this change, our customers pay an average of 1.5% less for their holiday than they would have if we hadn't exposed the fee*."

This is utter nonsence. There are 4 people in our group who paid for there ski trip using  a credit card. Directski.com pocketed a total of roughly 59.84 euro in total from our group because we paid by credit card. 
And you are telling me that our holiday is on average 2% cheaper !!!  

I find it impossible to believe that Directski.com are being charged 1.5% on every credit card transaction.  It will be interesting to see what VISA and my bank will have to say about this 1.5% charge.

I would also like to point out that www.directski.com are intending to change there website to 
Quote " On the back of bredaghx's comments and this thread, we will be changing our website to include mention of the fee earlier in the booking process. "
This just goes to show that there is a big problem with how they are informing their customers of this credit card charge. the customer is informed too late in the process. Much Too late...

If I do receive a refund I intend to donate it to askaboutmoney.com. Its not the the amount, its the principle of the situation.


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2007)

bredaghx said:


> I hope that they will both investigate this charge and refund all or part of the fee.



I doubt that they will but good luck in pursuing the matter. 



> I hope that I will be successful, considering that the No Discrimination Rule has been broken because I was discriminated by directski.com for paying by my Visa Card.



Note that this "rule" is not a statutory one and, as such, _DirectSki _were not in breach of any legislation in charging this additional fee once they mentioned it at booking time - as the _ODCA _confirmed to you above.



> I find it impossible to believe that Directski.com are being charged 1.5% on every credit card transaction.



Why? I thought that a 1.5% charge to the merchant by the _CC _company was not unusual. Note that a 3.5% charge in similar circumstances is mentioned by somebody above. If I recall correctly depending on how much business a merchant puts by the _CC _company they will be charged different rates but rarely, if ever, get this service for free.



> This just goes to show that there is a big problem with how they are informing their customers of this credit card charge. the customer is informed too late in the process. Much Too late...



I disagree. As long as the charge is mentioned before you actually submit the transaction then it's never "too late". However it would make sense to mention this charge sooner and possibly in the booking Ts&Cs.


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## GreatDane (4 Jan 2007)

Brendan said:


> Garrett
> 
> I think you are missing the point. Why should any company absorb the charge?
> 
> ...


 

Brendan

I did not "miss the point" but simply don't accept it - I refer you to my previous response, to Anthony, in which I say:



> I hear what your saying...


 

Regarding your referance to my language, I am sorry if you felt it inappropriate as you mention above, I felt the "" around the word "fiddle", would have indicated the word was being used in a round about manner.  Nonetheless, your point is noted & your position fully appreciated, no harm intended here.


Finally, Yes the user of Laser may be cheaper but the bottom line here is that accepting major credit cards such as Mastercard & Visa will attract business for this or any other retailer, or if you rather, refusing to accept these methods of payment may discourage / scare away potential customers - as such, it's in their interest to consider accepting this payment method.

Furthermore, the funds are guaranteed as soon as the payment is authorised for the retailer (assuming no fraud or disbute between vendor & purchaser), with the time until funds are cleared for the retailer, significantly faster than say a cheque clearing etc. As such, there is benifit in the retailer seeking payment via credit card & as such, an offset for the retailer "absorbing" the processing costs referred to.

The processing cost involved for credit cards, is indeed open to a level of negotiation based upon usage, the merchant service provider etc etc & as such, is something DirectSki should consider investigating imho.

Amazing how large travel operators & airlines apparently cannot absorb these costs, or negotiate more competitive processing rates ... while smaller retailers (in various industries, with various margins on their revenue), can. I'm not saying DirectSki are the worst, but they could certainly do better ... purely from the eyes of this one, potential customer.

Regards

G>


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## Helsbels (9 Jan 2007)

I work in travel and have done so for the past 15 years. Travel agencies and tour operators work on such low margins as it is (eg a travel agent will not normally get more than 10% commission on a booking, often less than this) that if the vast majority of people are paying on credit cards and the merchants are charging the agency 3.5% then the margin being made is being reduced even further.

Travel in general has suffered in the past few years due to the threat of terrorism, airlines no longer paying commission, the internet etc and there have been many companies closing down or having to make redundancies and it is getting much harder to make any money from this industry sector.

The last agency I worked in was a small independent agency and we resisted introducing credit card charges for a long, long time as the owner didn't agree with them but in the end he had to go down this route as he couldn't afford to take the hit any longer that the merchants charge the agents.

Incidentally this is not me necessarily agreeing with the charges but just trying to explain why they are there.


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## GreatDane (10 Jan 2007)

Hi Helsbels

Thanks for the explanation, I think / hope it fair to say most of us appreciate some of the background.

However, Im of the view that the margins concerned, while not as large as they once were, are still worthwhile ... furthermore, one must also consider the size of the transaction (ie a 5% margin on an average spend of €500 equals €25 where as a 10% margin on a €50 spend is only €5 etc)

Take for example, your local shop - chances are they accept credit cards for payment, once there is a minimum spend - possibly €10 and they don't charge the customer for their costs with the merchant services provider, now do they ?

- As for 3.5% costs, that seems very high ... again, referring to my comment earlier in this post, the business in question might want to have a chat with their local bank on this level of costs, or look at alternative providers who charge less !

Cheers

G>


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