# Prearrears, negotiating with bank



## Springsteen (20 Mar 2013)

Personal and income details
Income self: 150,000K secure private sector
Income history: very secure
Income partner/spouse: 0
Income history: Was made redundant, salary was 70,000k
number of children 2
Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received 0
Home loan Int only
Lender: EBS
Amount outstanding: 870,000
Value of home: 650,000
Interest rate: Tracker 0.7 Int only
Monthly repayment 1200
Amount in arrears 0

Summary of discussions and agreements with the banke.g. in Marp since May 2012 . Have been on interest only on PPR since then. 

Investment property - Delete if not applicable 
Lender: EBS
Amount outstanding: 392,000
Value of home: 250,000
Interest rate: 4%
Monthly repayment 1617 cap and int ( part of loan int only )
Amount in arrears 0
Monthly rent received 1250

Investment property - Delete if not applicable 
Lender: EBS
Amount outstanding: 331,000
Value of home: 200,000
Interest rate: 4.25%
Monthly repayment 1793 Cap and Int
Amount in arrears 0
Monthly rent received 1050

Investment property - Delete if not applicable 
Lender: EBS
Amount outstanding: 241,000
Value of home: 150,000
Interest rate: 4%
Monthly repayment 1557 Cap and Int
Amount in arrears 0
Monthly rent received 900


Other savings and investments 

100,000k in savings


How important is retaining the family home to you? 
Which of the following best describes your situation?

I really want to keep the family home even if it means having a large mortgage and negative equity for years to come.


Any other relevant information

What is your preferred realistic outcome? 

We would like to retain BTL's until we break even and sell and then concentrate on reducing PPR debt. We would like forbearance of interest only to allow us to continue deleveraging on the BTL's.


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## Springsteen (20 Mar 2013)

Hi All,
The elephant in the room is getting bigger. We will very soon enter negotiations with the bank on how best to proceed. We have good income, and good future earning potential, and we're young, 32yrs. We are submitting a SFS statement every 6 months ( pain in the a%% ), the next one is due soon. We want a long term solution. We plan on repaying our debts if given the option, through forebearance or otherwise, but we would have no problem being assertive in dealing with in unfair negotiations.

We really like our family home and plan to stay.

We don't mind about the BTL's.

Nothing is cross secured.

1 BTL is in my wifes sole name. 2 BTL's are solely in my name. PPR is jointly owned.

The nature of my work makes leaving the country to declare bankruptcy very easy and very appealing as incomes for my position abroad pay better than here. We do not want to leave Ireland though. It makes no financial sense to stay, but thats what we want. Even if we went abroad and honoured our debts we'd be better off with bigger income and less tax.

Any advice would be gratefully received.


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## cremeegg (21 Mar 2013)

A lot of people get valuable advice here because their understanding of finance is limited. You seem to be well aware of your position. But if you stay in Ireland you will be struggling with this for years to come.

My only other comment would be that it makes no difference to pre-school kids where they live and for older kids a few years living abroad can be a great experience.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Bronte (21 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> We want a long term solution.
> 
> We plan on repaying our debts if given the option, through forebearance or otherwise, but we would have no problem being assertive in dealing with in unfair negotiations.
> 
> ...


 
What is your problem exactly?

What are you hoping to achieve through negotiations?  What kind of forebearance are you looking for?  

Are all mortgages capital and interest?

What is the remaining term on each mortgage?


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> What is your problem exactly?
> 
> What are you hoping to achieve through negotiations?  What kind of forebearance are you looking for?
> 
> ...



Hi Bronte,

Our problem is, we are currently reapplying for int only on our home loan every 6 months. This short term process of kicking the can down the road is not ideal. We would like a long term solution to assist planning our lives. If we return to full capital payments we will go into arrears.

We are open to long term forebearance suggestions. I would be happy enough with 5 plus years of int only ( or at least longer than every 6 months ) on a suitable portion of our debt to allow us pay capital on the rental properties and eventually deleverage when they are no longer in negative equity.

As per above, our main home is int only and the BTL's are on capital and int ( apart from approx 230k on one of the BTL which is int only )

Terms vary from 15yrs to 26yrs.

My intention of posting here is for advice on what other people would do in our position. We like living in Ireland.


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

cremeegg said:


> A lot of people get valuable advice here because their understanding of finance is limited. You seem to be well aware of your position. But if you stay in Ireland you will be struggling with this for years to come.
> 
> My only other comment would be that it makes no difference to pre-school kids where they live and for older kids a few years living abroad can be a great experience.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.



Thanks cremeegg. Good advice. We do like Ireland though. If we can get a long term solution thats not too onerous we'll most likely stay. We'll see.....


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## dereko1969 (21 Mar 2013)

So you're supplementing your buy to lets to the tune of €1800 per month, your PPR is costing you €1200 per month, your monthly gross pay is €12,500 - what exactly is the issue?

I can't see banks showing forebearance for someone that is meeting their obligations, has a huge salary and should, all normal spending patterns assumed, be able to continue meeting their obligations. Plus you're on a super juicy tracker.

Or am I missing something here?


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

dereko1969 said:


> So you're supplementing your buy to lets to the tune of €1800 per month, your PPR is costing you €1200 per month, your monthly gross pay is €12,500 - what exactly is the issue?
> 
> I can't see banks showing forebearance for someone that is meeting their obligations, has a huge salary and should, all normal spending patterns assumed, be able to continue meeting their obligations. Plus you're on a super juicy tracker.
> 
> Or am I missing something here?



In a word YES!

12500 per month gross income, 6250 net approx.

Full capital payments on all debt is 9000 approx.

Deficit 2750 per month regardless of any living expenses, tax on rental income , management fees for property, insurances etc etc etc.

You might notice the title, Prearrears! As soon as the bank move us off Interest only we're in an unsustainable situation.

Thanks for your reply.


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## ASK12 (21 Mar 2013)

Springsteen, You have the fact that all loans seem to be with EBS therefore whichever way you prioritise the loans in your own cashflow terms, EBS will be receiving all the cash. All roads currently with the Govt. initiatives etc. are pointing to giving the maximum priority to the family "Homeloan" which you have a Tracker on that I cannot understand why you would want to risk this and I would keep a very close eye on the current Central bank consultation process regards Tracker protections lessening for MARP customers seeking a deal. Prioritising BTL's over your family home, that could be a target for the bank.


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## commonsense (21 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> In a word YES!
> 
> 12500 per month gross income, 6250 net approx.
> 
> ...




Sell the properties.  The total NE is approx 340k, you could put the 100k savings off it and convert into personal loan.


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

ASK12 said:


> Springsteen, You have the fact that all loans seem to be with EBS therefore whichever way you prioritise the loans in your own cashflow terms, EBS will be receiving all the cash. All roads currently with the Govt. initiatives etc. are pointing to giving the maximum priority to the family "Homeloan" which you have a Tracker on that I cannot understand why you would want to risk this and I would keep a very close eye on the current Central bank consultation process regards Tracker protections lessening for MARP customers seeking a deal. Prioritising BTL's over your family home, that could be a target for the bank.



Thanks ASK12. I'm prioritising the BTL's as thats what EBS want! When I applied for Int only I applied for it on the BTL's with the intention of paying down as much as possible on the PPR. EBS said they would only consider Int only on PPR and to pay cap and int off BTL's. I'm stuck with their plan as I know if it all reverts to cap and Interest we'll very quickly end up in arrears, hence, the reason why I'm picking brains on this website. I am very aware that the attitude to trackers is changing, another worry!


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

commonsense,

my plan exactly, however, if I can delay the sale until the negative equity is less that would be better. BTL's are all family style homes in Dublin and I think will be the best sellers in the next couple of years.

A question on your plan to sell, will the bank let me sell if there is a shortfall? The shortfall will become unsecured, or can they request/require I cross secure it to the PPR?

Thanks for taking the time to post.


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## commonsense (21 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> commonsense,
> 
> my plan exactly, however, if I can delay the sale until the negative equity is less that would be better. BTL's are all family style homes in Dublin and I think will be the best sellers in the next couple of years.
> 
> ...



To be honest with you Springsteen, I think that any benefit of a possible higher sales price, in a year or two,  will be completely wiped out by the arrears. 

You are in a very good position. The best thing is to do up a plan showing the lender exactly what you intend to do. I honestly cannot see them refusing this option. 

You have 100k savings, a good monthly income, the possibility of  repaying your full PPR as well as servicing a NE debt. You are not  looking for a write-down and are prepared to sell the properties and  repay the debt.

I also think that given the lack of good family homes, in good areas, that you may achieve higher prices now, not in two years time.


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

commonsense said:


> To be honest with you Springsteen, I think that any benefit of a possible higher sales price, in a year or two,  will be completely wiped out by the arrears.
> 
> You are in a very good position. The best thing is to do up a plan showing the lender exactly what you intend to do. I honestly cannot see them refusing this option.
> 
> ...



Cheers commonsense. There hopefully won't be any arrears if the bank extend the int only period. We can manage now, its full payments and/or increasing int rates that have me worried. I'd love to off load the BTL's and concentrate on the PPR and live a stress free life.

I will do up a plan for EBS, any gems from this thread will most definitely feature.


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## Joe_90 (21 Mar 2013)

To bring a little clarity it might be better to summarise the situation,  



|PPR|Inv1|Inv2|Inv3|Total
O/s bal |650k|392k|331k|241k|1.614m
Monthly Repay |1,200|1,617|1,793|1,557|6,167

Income |7,201|1,250|1,050|900|10,401
Assumes your spouse has no income, you will have a bit of child benefit and then some tax to pay on the rental income.  So lets say you have €4k per month for yourself and the family.  

So really the key is what are your spouses prospects of getting a job? You might be able to extent the repayment schedule but that is not dealing with the fact that you are €3k per month short on the Cap & Int which is effectively your wifes salary.


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## commonsense (21 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> Cheers commonsense. There hopefully won't be any arrears if the bank extend the int only period. We can manage now, its full payments and/or increasing int rates that have me worried. I'd love to off load the BTL's and concentrate on the PPR and live a stress free life.
> 
> I will do up a plan for EBS, any gems from this thread will most definitely feature.



I wish you all the best!!


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## Springsteen (21 Mar 2013)

Joe_90 said:


> To bring a little clarity it might be better to summarise the situation,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for doing the table Joe_90. We owe 870k on PPR not 620k, 620k is the value. The current situation is manageable ( your table ), its if the PPR ( 870k, repayment cap and int approx 3600p/month as opposed to 1200 int only ) and one other loan 245k approx( unsure cap and int payment ) goes cap and int. Your table would get very scary with those numbers!


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## Joe_90 (22 Mar 2013)

Situation is indeed serious.



|PPR|Inv1|Inv2|Inv3|Total
O/s bal |870k|392k|331k|241k|1.834m
Monthly Repay |1,200|1,617|1,793|1,557|6,167

Income |7,201|1,250|1,050|900|10,401
3 Options:
1. Sell all investment property and repay balance over 25 years.
Income €7,201 Ourgoings PPR €3,600 Other loan €1,450. 
2. Continue current situation for 5 years, reassess then
Income €10,401 Ourgoings PPR €1,200 Other loan €3,967.
The main problem with can kicking is that in 5 years you may end up taking option 1, so its an exercise is trying to compute the reduction in the o/s loans over the 5 years under the 2 options. (No comment on the valuation of houses in 5 years deliberate).
3. Throw in the towel, 
Income ? Outgoings? possibility of getting loan in the future? 

I think the major thing for you is your spouses future employment opportunities.  €3,500 net per month in this situation is everything.


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## Bronte (22 Mar 2013)

I think you need to very carefully look at all different options. You've already been given some ideas. Here's another one. 

Sell your PPR. Use the 100K to pay down the NE of (870 - 650 = 220) so you're be left with NE of 120K. 

Move into the best of the investment properties. You've now rid of the problem of the unmanageable 870K mortgage and also wiped out the problem on one of the investment properties not giving you a return to equal mortgage repayments and it sure frees up a lot of income. If property goes up you gain on the investment properties, if it goes down you have gained by selling the PPR. (We are not allowed to talk on AAM about what way we think it will go)

You did mention that all 3 investment properties are family homes. Now I presume you are living in something even better than that. And it might be a hard sell to your spouse. You would of course have to crunch the numbers. 

EBS would have to agree to let you repay the 120K as a loan. You could try and negotiate a good rate and term, they have an incentive as they sure as hell want to get you off the tracker, that's good for negotiation.

*Cross secured*

Like a lot of people like you are assuming that your properties are not cross secured. Wrong. In Ireland you will be liable if you default on your investments and they will go after your PPR or vice versa. So paying off one and letting the others slide is *Never* an option. 

Just to point out something else, it's better to have loans on the investments as there is more tax relief on the mortgage interest that on your PPR. 

Others will argue that one should never give up a tracker. Yes trackers are great. But you have many loans. You must do the numbers and see what makes sense. 

It would be great if you would for each of the 4 loans clarify the term remaining. (to see if an extension is a good idea - you are only 32). So please redo up each mortgage with this.

BTW you're very luckly.  One lender.  Makes it much easier to deal with.


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## PE2013 (22 Mar 2013)

What struck me above is that you are 32 and have a gross salary of €150k which is great going. But assuming you bought prior to 2008, you would have been 27/28 (at most) when you got €1.84m of debt (probably higher back then due to cap and int payments). I'm just interested in the back story.


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## Springsteen (22 Mar 2013)

PE2013 said:


> What struck me above is that you are 32 and have a gross salary of €150k which is great going. But assuming you bought prior to 2008, you would have been 27/28 (at most) when you got €1.84m of debt (probably higher back then due to cap and int payments). I'm just interested in the back story.



Quite a nosey comment!

If you must know. In 2006 we had considerable positve equity, my salary was higher, rents were stronger, and my wife was working. My earning potential then was far greater than it is now. We bought our family home in the height of the housing boom. No mystery.


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## Springsteen (22 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> I think you need to very carefully look at all different options. You've already been given some ideas. Here's another one.
> 
> Sell your PPR. Use the 100K to pay down the NE of (870 - 650 = 220) so you're be left with NE of 120K.
> 
> ...



Thanks Bronte, great info regarding cross secured, that ends an idea of strategic payements. As for selling our PPR, if we were to do that we'd most likely move abroad. Our last option.

I'll dig up the terms in time.


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## cian8 (23 Mar 2013)

Ok you can ignore this as wishful thinking but if you want to keep all properties and make capital repayments against all then...

Current total monthly repayment    6600

Total monthly capital + interest     9000        *(approx based on estimated term lengths and uncertainity over full repayment amount for inv property 1)

Max affordable monthly repayment 7400        *(net income 10,400 minus monthly living expenses 3,000)

1: Pay off a lump sum of 78400* off PPR leaving term unchanged *(savings minus three months net salary as emergency reserve)
           Reduces monthly cap + int to             8650

2: Extend PPR term to 30 years   *(considering your youth and solid income)                              
           Reduces monthly cap + int to             8100

This leaves another 700 per month to square the circle which could be achieved in a few ways:

Extending the partial interest only on the first investment property approx 400/month
Increasing income (is it possible to raise rents?)
Supplementing repayments from remaining savings
Asking your lender for an incentive to pay off the lump sum of 78400
Increase term on one or more investment properties

More than likely a combination of all five!

This may result in a lower standard of living for a period, and is probably NOT a prudent investment choice, but it could work out!


(I have estimated the terms as follows, which match the repayments - PPR 24 yrs, INV1 25 years, INV2 25 years and INV3 18 years)


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## Springsteen (23 Mar 2013)

cian8 said:


> Ok you can ignore this as wishful thinking but if you want to keep all properties and make capital repayments against all then...
> 
> Current total monthly repayment    6600
> 
> ...



Thank you Cian8 for taking the time to go into so much detail. Its encouraging to see it may be possible.

Just one question, how do you calculate net income of 10,400? Are you using a formula considering income tax, USC etc? and does it consider income tax on the rent. Not doubting your figures, it just seems that we have more income than we realise.

Again, many thanks, I am very encouraged by the thought it may be affordable with a few tweaks.


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## Springsteen (23 Mar 2013)

Bronte and Cian8,

Update on actual terms.

PPR 26yrs left.
BTL1  146K (cap and Int) 24yrs and 246k (Int only) 19yrs
BTL2  164K (cap and int) 24yrs and 167k (cap and int) 25yrs
BTL 3 70k (cap and int) 25yrs and 157k (cap and int) 17yrs and 14k (cap and int) 11yrs


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## Bronte (25 Mar 2013)

That's very strange, 2 of the BTL's have 2 loans and one has 3? Did you take out equity?


As you're young you could try extending the terms on some of those to reduce the repayments. I wonder would your bank be agreeable to that. But you should use the 100K to make a reduction somewhere (where it is of most benefit).  For example right now you could pay off the 70K and 14K on BTL number 3.  How much extra income would that give you?

Why can you not sell the PPR and move into one of the rentals?


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## PE2013 (25 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> Quite a nosey comment!
> 
> If you must know. In 2006 we had considerable positve equity, my salary was higher, rents were stronger, and my wife was working. My earning potential then was far greater than it is now. We bought our family home in the height of the housing boom. No mystery.


 
You didn't have to answer, of course. Not may 26 year olds earning over €150k. Well done on that front alone. I'd push the loans out for as long as you can, even if you had to give up some of your free cash as a sweetener.


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## cremeegg (25 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> *Cross secured*
> 
> Like a lot of people like you are assuming that your properties are not cross secured. Wrong. In Ireland you will be liable if you default on your investments and they will go after your PPR or vice versa. So paying off one and letting the others slide is *Never* an option.



I dont think this is a full picture regarding cross security. 

If a loan is secured on a property, the lender can seek to repossess that property if the loan is not being repaid.

However if the loan on your PPR is up to date the EBS cannot seek to exercise their security over the PPR.

If other loans are behind on buy to lets then EBS would have to go through a process on those, i.e. sell the buy to lets and then pursue you for the shortfall before they could get into court on your PPR. And all the family home protection legislation would be in your favour. I dont think that family homes are often repossessed to pay debts which are not secured against them.

Bronte is right that you still owe the money and they can go after your PPR, but it is a much longer road than if there was cross security. 

How important is this difference, well I suggest it is the reason that EBS wanted you to go interest only on the PPR instead of the buy to lets.

Regarding the rest of the tread a plan seems to be evolving to improve cashflow and pay off the debt over a longer period. 

If you do adopt such a plan, it is up to you to implement it. Make your plan, tell the bank what you are doing and do it, dont think in terms of asking their permission. 

I suggest that the first part of the plan is to pay capital and interest on your home. After all saving your home seems to be the main purpose of the plan. Then pay as much capital as you can afford on the buy to lets.


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## cremeegg (25 Mar 2013)

Just one further thought. Your borrowings are €1.6 million. A rate increase of 1% would cost you €16,000 a year. There is no point in a plan that works, barely, now and would collapse with a small increase in rates.

It would be a pity to scrimp for 5 years then find that the rates increased and you were back to square one.


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## Springsteen (25 Mar 2013)

Bronte said:


> That's very strange, 2 of the BTL's have 2 loans and one has 3? Did you take out equity?
> 
> 
> As you're young you could try extending the terms on some of those to reduce the repayments. I wonder would your bank be agreeable to that. But you should use the 100K to make a reduction somewhere (where it is of most benefit).  For example right now you could pay off the 70K and 14K on BTL number 3.  How much extra income would that give you?
> ...



Hi Bronte,

yea, extra loans were equity release to buy next house etc.

If we are to move from PPR its going to part of the problem ( we'll take it all the way in court if necessary ), not the solution. If we are to spend the rest of our lives paying debt then we want to live where we are. otherwise we'll just leave the jurisdiction and declare bankrupt. We have to have an incentive.


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## Springsteen (25 Mar 2013)

PE2013 said:


> You didn't have to answer, of course. Not may 26 year olds earning over €150k. Well done on that front alone. I'd push the loans out for as long as you can, even if you had to give up some of your free cash as a sweetener.



Thanks PE2013. Its rare now for sure, but was more common in 2006!


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## Springsteen (25 Mar 2013)

cremeegg said:


> I dont think this is a full picture regarding cross security.
> 
> If a loan is secured on a property, the lender can seek to repossess that property if the loan is not being repaid.
> 
> ...



Cremeegg,

Great info in this post. Thats what I tought. It would make the PPR more secure.

What if we paid the PPR 100% and one BTL 100% (one solely in my wifes name) and defaulted completely in 2 BTL's  (solely in my name)? That way I'm the big bad wolf, my wife and the kids are clean. Therefore 2/3rds of the household are in the courts eyes compliant. I know I'm getting sneaky now but a reasonable man has no place in negotiations!

I have thought about interest rate hikes but I don't believe Europe is out of the woods yet, or close for that matter. Also, following a massive recession inflation runs riot. If salaries and rents keep a pace then the situation at worst will stay the same.......... I hope!

Again, thanks to you and all for your time and comment, I have plenty of food for thought. Ideas are settling and a plan is forming.


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## honest (29 Mar 2013)

I think the O.P. has negative equity of approx €590,000. In the hypothetical situation if he/she was to sell all the property that is the balance that would be owed....or maybe even a bit more after selling costs of about 80k - paying auctioneers and legal bills. 

There is a strong case for the OP to leave the country and build a decent life abroad while he / she is still young ( only 32 ), and before interest rates rise as they inevitably will. He/she should do the best for the 2 young kids. After a few years in England he/she could always return. The OP is unusual (and perhaps lucky, but I do not begrudge luck, sometime hard talented workers make their own luck ) in that he/she is young, presumably highly qualified and has excellent earning prospects abroad as well as here. He/she earns more that the prime minister of many countries eg New Zealand. 

If the OP's home is worth 650k now, and he/she is aged 32 now, it may have cost 1.3 million or more if bought at the height of the boom in 2006 as implied? 
What struck me as unusual is that the bank would have lent this amount of money to say a 25 year old in a private sector job?   Should lending not have been based on 2.5 times salary + salary of his spouse, or whatever?   

Not that many years ago (20/21 years ago) interest rates touched over 18%...imagine the repayments then on mortgages totallying a couple of million!   IIn my humble opinion the OP would be foolish to stay in Ireland...should go to some country where the banks will not lend a couple of million to a 25 year old employee!


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## Galego (30 Mar 2013)

After all the speculations which have got you into huge financial troubles, you are still willing to speculate even further not selling the BTLs? I would have thought that you had learnt a lesson from this whole experience!?


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## Springsteen (31 Mar 2013)

Galego said:


> After all the speculations which have got you into huge financial troubles, you are still willing to speculate even further not selling the BTLs? I would have thought that you had learnt a lesson from this whole experience!?



I never said I was not willing to sell BTL's. I am seeking advice, not judgement. I f you read all the posts some suggestions have included selling BTL's now. I'd love to sell. Bank may not let me sell as the balance will be unsecured. Another consideration is the cost of holding and selling later versus selling now (firesale).

Happy Easter


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## ciarank (31 Mar 2013)

Hi Sprinsteen,

You have a big advantage having all your loans with one lender as this makes any negotiations much easier albeit still very tough!

The way I see your situation is that EBS are most likely VERY happy with you at the moment given that you are paying all your loans as agreed. They will continue to put maximum pressure on you and will be less likely to agree a more long term solution that works best for you as long as you continue to pay all mortgages.

If I were in your shoes I would do 1 of 3 things:

1. Negotiate really hard with EBS (might mean you need to default to put pressure on them)  to get all the BTL's on Interest Only for as long as possible (5 to 10 years) in order for the NE to erode away somewhat and then sell if it makes sense to do so. The goal would be to effectively get these to wash their face until you dispose of them. Continue to pay your PPR with Cap & Int with perhaps an extended term. This will give you maximum breathing space and if you are flush with cash you could still use it to pay lump sums off your PPR mortgage.

2. Surrender all the BTL's to EBS and try to negotiate a writedown of between 50% and 100% of the NE of those mortgages. Whatever they don't agree to writedown you could agree to add the balance onto your PPR and then extend the term of your PPR resident mortgage right out so that it is perfectly affordable on Cap & Int. A split mortgage is another option to consider with this too. This would put your life back to normal the quickest! 

3. I know your are very reluctant (understandably) to move abroad but given that you could make very good money oversees (I assume the UK would be one of your options?) then perhaps you would consider a 3 to 5 year plan, declare bankruptcy in the UK and then building a very large pot of cash quite quickly and return to Ireland and buy a house for cash completely debt free! 


Just my 2 cents but I definitely wouldn't be working your butt off for the next 10 years to be giving every cent to EBS just to arrive at a point where you are at breakeven!

Good luck in your negotiations!


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## Springsteen (31 Mar 2013)

ciarank said:


> Hi Sprinsteen,
> 
> You have a big advantage having all your loans with one lender as this makes any negotiations much easier albeit still very tough!
> 
> ...



Ciarank,

Thanks for the time and suggestions. On your second point, I have considered a slight variation. Assuming we are 300k in neg equity. If the bank write of 100k, we bring in 100k, and we pay the remaining 100k over 30 years. That'll leave us with just the home loan. The write down of 100k is approx 5% of our total borrowings, I might even ask for 200k (10%) off. The tracker on the PPR of course would have to survive in the deal. We'll see.

Thanks again, happy easter.


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## ciarank (31 Mar 2013)

Springsteen said:


> Ciarank,
> 
> Thanks for the time and suggestions. On your second point, I have considered a slight variation. Assuming we are 300k in neg equity. If the bank write of 100k, we bring in 100k, and we pay the remaining 100k over 30 years. That'll leave us with just the home loan. The write down of 100k is approx 5% of our total borrowings, I might even ask for 200k (10%) off. The tracker on the PPR of course would have to survive in the deal. We'll see.
> 
> Thanks again, happy easter.



If you are willing to put the €100k in then I think you have a very good chance of getting a €200k write off or something close to it. However be VERY careful even suggesting this to EBS as they will take the hand off you if it's offered up too easy and too early! 

Start the negotiations without even mentioning the €100k. Try negotiating the first €100k to €150k off the NE of the BTL's and then introduce the €100k cash if they knock another €50k or €75k off or something to that effect.


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