# Separation advice



## Introuble83 (20 Sep 2022)

A family member has asked for advice . 

He is recently separating from his wife and leaving the family home back to parents . There are 4 children in the family home . He advised me that under existing arrangements he pays for absolutely everything. All bills mortgage. Her car, food costs etc . He takes zero of his salary for his own expenses. He earns around €3,250 a month . His wife works part time and earns €1,300 a month and receives €560 child benefit . Her income is primarily used for her own personal expenses with some cash going towards food and kids clothes sometimes.  

The home is in his sole name and was purchased pre-wedding . His query is that he cannot provide his wife with monthly maintenance payments as he has zero left after all outgoings are serviced. I would argue that by paying everything he is already covering the costs. A very messy setup .  Has anyone encountered anything similar? 

I advised him he may need formal arrangements from a solicitor or mediation but he advised he cannot afford it. I told him he is entitled to have some of his own income and he advised me he has Been living this way for 10 years . 

Any advice is welcome . Thanks.


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## Páid (20 Sep 2022)

He can get free legal advice here https://www.flac.ie/


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> I advised him he may need formal arrangements from a solicitor or mediation but he advised he cannot afford it.





Introuble83 said:


> All bills mortgage.



He absolutely needs legal advice on this. 
And legal advice takes priority over the mortgage. 

He should talk to his lender and explain that he is in financial difficulties and needs a payment holiday. 

And if they don't give him one, then he just has to go into arrears. 

It's tough, but I see no other option.

Brendan


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## Introuble83 (20 Sep 2022)

Brendan Burgess said:


> He absolutely needs legal advice on this.
> And legal advice takes priority over the mortgage.
> 
> He should talk to his lender and explain that he is in financial difficulties and needs a payment holiday.
> ...


The holiday payment makes sense . The arrears does not . At some point he may want to get another mortgage that would impede on that surely . Notwithstanding I read it’s quite difficult to recover financially from his current position. It’s a gloomy outlook


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> At some point he may want to get another mortgage that would impede on that surely .



He has absolutely no chance of a mortgage for the foreseeable future. 

He needs good legal advice and it costs money.  His immediate need is a higher priority than something which is very unlikely to happen in the next ten years.

Brendan


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## Clamball (21 Sep 2022)

It is a very unfortunate situation.  As he has recently left the family home he can and should make some immediate changes. 

1.  Get legal advice
2.  Start planning where he is going to live permanently and start saving for that.  It will most likely be a rental property so deposit, payment in advance of rent, utilities etc.
3.  Divide all the bills equally, based on income, which looks like 2/3 to him 1/3 to her.  And agree what are “household expenses”.   Food, school related costs, uniforms, broadband, heat, electricity, house insurance etc.   

It sounds like there has not been much communication, discussion on this if it has been a recent separation, and so the husband may need to be really clear about what is happening.

“Now that we have been separated a few weeks this is how I see the best way to progress with paying the bills for two households until we can come to a formal separation/divorce arrangement.

These are the expenses to run the family home 
Detail
Detail
Detail
These are our incomes,  xxxxx
This is what I am able to pay towards these expenses, I would recommend you pay this.
We should each look after our own car expenses
I am planning to rent and it will cost xxx so I am saving etc.

Don’t just stop paying bills without explanation.

Brendan is probably right that stopping payment of mortgage is easiest, if there is no agreement between the spouses.   They should also consider mediation.


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## elcato (21 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> He takes zero of his salary for his own expenses. He earns around €3,250 a month


What is he living on ? Who's bank account does this money go into ? If his, how does he pay it over to the other party ?


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## Horatio (21 Sep 2022)

So he's separated & moved out but not divorced - all is not lost YET!

1st priority should be sincere engagement in meaningful reconciliation. 

Your Friend should invest all his available resources, time & money in to trying to make this work. Permenant separation or divorce is a life sentence for him, he will in effect end up being an indentured servant. I say this in all sincerety. 

Work on this as his priority, if that fails then all the above advice is rock solid.


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## Introuble83 (21 Sep 2022)

elcato said:


> What is he living on ? Who's bank account does this money go into ? If his, how does he pay it over to the other party ?


Paid to his own account . He pays everything directly and sends cash to his wife as needed . He says when all his bills are paid and enough accounted for food he might have 100 left to the following pay day .  90% of his income would be gone on pay day


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## Introuble83 (21 Sep 2022)

Horatio said:


> So he's separated & moved out but not divorced - all is not lost YET!
> 
> 1st priority should be sincere engagement in meaningful reconciliation.
> 
> ...


That’s very solid advise thank you


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## Páid (22 Sep 2022)

Your family member really needs to talk to a solicitor.


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## Introuble83 (22 Sep 2022)

He says he wants to try mediation . Does he still need to speak to a solicitor before this begins ? Thanks


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## dubdub123 (22 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> He says he wants to try mediation . Does he still need to speak to a solicitor before this begins ? Thanks



Absolutely. He should absolutely engage the services of a solicitor. 
His wife may well be getting WFP based on her income also and claiming further tax credits now.


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## Purple (22 Sep 2022)

Horatio said:


> So he's separated & moved out but not divorced - all is not lost YET!
> 
> 1st priority should be sincere engagement in meaningful reconciliation.
> 
> ...


My advice is to move back into the house and stay there until any agreement is made. Once he moves out he's in a weak bargaining position.


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## jim (22 Sep 2022)

Purple said:


> . Once he moves out he's in a weak bargaining position


I have heard this before but why is this the case?


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## ClubMan (22 Sep 2022)

He should check if he could get legal representation via the Legal Aid Board.





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					www.legalaidboard.ie


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## Purple (23 Sep 2022)

jim said:


> I have heard this before but why is this the case?


Because it's hard legally to get someone out of a house, unless there is abuse and even then it's not easy, and it's also hard to get back into a house. If you move out you have effectively ceded control of the largest marital asset to the other person.


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## Introuble83 (23 Sep 2022)

Purple said:


> Because it's hard legally to get someone out of a house, unless there is abuse and even then it's not easy, and it's also hard to get back into a house. If you move out you have effectively ceded control of the largest marital asset to the other person.


Is it not just a case that the wife will be allowed stay in the property until the youngest child is 18 then the property is sold and split 2 ways ? Not withstanding the husband is the sole owner and pays the full mortgage ?


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## Purple (23 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> Is it not just a case that the wife will be allowed stay in the property until the youngest child is 18 then the property is sold and split 2 ways ? Not withstanding the husband is the sole owner and pays the full mortgage ?


It depends on who looks after the children. If both parents work and they split the access equally then it doesn't follow that the mother keeps the house. If the father is the primary caregiver he should keep the house. There is a sexist presumption that the mother will keep it and that certainly disadvantages men where the caregiving is split equally but it's not the law.

In the case of the OP it seems that he is sacrificing time with his children in order to provide for them financially, a sacrifice that the mother is not making. Should he also now have to sacrifice his home as well?


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## Introuble83 (23 Sep 2022)

Purple said:


> It depends on who looks after the children. If both parents work and they split the access equally then it doesn't follow that the mother keeps the house. If the father is the primary caregiver he should keep the house. There is a sexist presumption that the mother will keep it and that certainly disadvantages men where the caregiving is split equally but it's not the law.
> 
> In the case of the OP it seems that he is sacrificing time with his children in order to provide for them financially, a sacrifice that the mother is not making. Should he also now have to sacrifice his home as well?


Like most situations it’s not clear cut . He has registered for mediation and made an appointment with a family law solicitor. His preference is to try make the marriage work but unfortunately his spouse has decided otherwise


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## ClubMan (24 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> I advised him he may need formal arrangements from a solicitor or mediation but he advised he cannot afford it.





Introuble83 said:


> made an appointment with a family law solicitor.


?


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## Introuble83 (24 Sep 2022)

ClubMan said:


> ?


Hi what is your question ? He booked an appointment for a solicitor consultation not sure of the cost I did not ask him


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## ClubMan (28 Sep 2022)

You said that he said that he couldn't afford a solicitor.
But it seems that he can?


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## Clamball (28 Sep 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> Is it not just a case that the wife will be allowed stay in the property until the youngest child is 18 then the property is sold and split 2 ways ? Not withstanding the husband is the sole owner and pays the full mortgage ?


It really does not matter if he is the sole owner of the house under the family home protection act (I am not a solicitor).  They have been living there for 10 years so it cannot be sold without both parties agreeing.  

I am glad he is willing to go to mediation and has an appointment with a solicitor.  It must be very difficult for him if he does not want to end the marriage but he can hope for the best and prepare for the worst.  I hope he is attempting to split the expenses of the family home equitably with his spouse, so that he can save some money himself.  He also needs to take on his role of parent as much as he can, if that is what he wishes.


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## Introuble83 (20 Oct 2022)

By means of update he has moved back to the fsmily home on instruction of his solicitor., he is proceeding with legal separation which apparently does not take that long . He wants to release the equity in the family home to purchase a second property that he can move into. He does not want to rent. I asked him if he did this pre separation would the spouse not also own half of this property. He was not sure seems madness to me but he said this was the cheaper and better option than renting


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## Introuble83 (20 Oct 2022)

ClubMan said:


> You said that he said that he couldn't afford a solicitor.
> But it seems that he can?


I did not ask he may have borrowed cash I’ve no idea


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## T McGibney (20 Oct 2022)

ClubMan said:


> You said that he said that he couldn't afford a solicitor.
> But it seems that he can?


An initial visit to a solicitor shouldn't cost a large amount?


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## Introuble83 (10 Nov 2022)

as above the relative advised me he wants to re mortgage the property and use the equity to purchase a new home for himself . The existing mortgage is in his sole name . Can he do this ?


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## ClubMan (11 Nov 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> as above the relative advised me he wants to re mortgage the property and use the equity to purchase a new home for himself . The existing mortgage is in his sole name . Can he do this ?


If it's the family home then I don't think so without obtaining the necessary permission and legal advice.





						Family and shared homes
					

What is considered to be a family or shared home? Find out the orders that can be made by the courts in relation to the family or shared home.




					www.citizensinformation.ie


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## Clamball (11 Nov 2022)

I can see how moving back in really helps with cutting his expenses and allowing him to be a parent to his children. 

The main question is can he and his spouse afford to pay two mortgages, jointly or separately.  He will need her permission to sell and probably remortgage despite him being the owner of the house, as everyone is saying above.

If the wife or her solicitor think it is unaffordable then she won’t give permission.


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