# How long does it take to Re-fix with UB



## Lisalefteye (21 Jun 2022)

I currently have a fixed mortgage with UB (with no breakage fee). I've applied for a mortgage with Haven and submitted everything in mid May. I'm told the paperwork is with the underwriters and I don't have a loan offer yet. I'm concerned about the proposed interest rise next month and I'm wondering should I just abandon the haven application and look to re fix with UB? How quickly can UB refix does anyone know? Thanks.


*Moderator's note:* If you contact Ulster Bank looking to break and re-fix, you will receive *two separate letters* from them a few days apart, and their structure and wording can lead to confusion. Look for the line that says something like: "Based on today's information this would result in an early redemption charge of €X to no longer be bound by this fixed rate." That amount is your break fee. Ignore all other references to break fees/breakage costs.


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## nephster (22 Jun 2022)

It should be very quick. First thing is to ring them (0818 210 275) and say you are looking to break and refix. They will then send the current break fee to you by post - it has to be recalculated, even if you strongly believe it will be zero; while you wait for that you can ring again and, as the fee will have been freshly generated, they will then be able to tell you what it is, and then when the documents they originally sent arrive you tick a box on the list of options and return it, signed. Then ring again to advise them you accept the break fee (even if zero!) and pay it if needed.

We are currently doing exactly this, but ours is complicated as we are also getting a top-up loan. In our case, we need to draw down that loan and then they will backdate the fix on our main loan to when they received the signed docs from us. If we hadn't been doing the top-up, I believe it would all have been done-and-dusted within a fortnight. It certainly was when I did a similar thing (moving to a better rate, no break fee) a couple of years ago.


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## Blackrock1 (22 Jun 2022)

can you refix with UB now? i thought they werent doing any more mortgage business.


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## MsCutha (22 Jun 2022)

@blackrock for existing mortgage accounts I believe you can. I’m in a similar situation to @Lisalefteye but I’ve paid the break fee and currently on variable rate with UB while waiting on Haven. On the online account I can select a new mortgage product, tempted to do that as Haven is taken a long time.


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## Midtablemanager (22 Jun 2022)

I'm currently looking to re fix with UB. Told them on the phone earlier in June that I wanted to refix and said they would send out the current rates and said if I wanted to move to another rate with them that I needed to tick the box on the form as to which rate I wanted to go with. Would need to pay a break fee but the one they sent which is valid until Friday is a break free on zero.


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## Blackrock1 (22 Jun 2022)

MsCutha said:


> @blackrock for existing mortgage accounts I believe you can. I’m in a similar situation to @Lisalefteye but I’ve paid the break fee and currently on variable rate with UB while waiting on Haven. On the online account I can select a new mortgage product, tempted to do that as Haven is taken a long time.


ok thanks ill look into that then,

anyone know if there is an option to adjust the term as part of something like this?


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## lexio7 (22 Jun 2022)

I have just refixed with UB.

I had to pay pay the break fee and also sign  the letter with desired rate I wanted to choose.

I am now waiting on confirmation letter which I hope to have by the middle of next week. 

I ended up fixing for 10 years at 2.8%


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## Wiresandmore (23 Jun 2022)

I refixed 2 months ago and it was very quick indeed - two ticks and signatures on the forms. I didn't think they were still doing it, interesting to know it's still an option. I moved 75% of the mortgage to 2.2% 5 year fix at the time.


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## Lisalefteye (23 Jun 2022)

Thank you everyone. I phoned ub today to get the ball rolling on re fixing. They must have a big influx of calls as they are asking you to email Ecbrateincrease@ulsterbank.com with your details and they'll contact you within 48 hours. Hopefully I can get either through before the rate increase


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## IrishHusk (23 Jun 2022)

Lisalefteye said:


> Thank you everyone. I phoned ub today to get the ball rolling on re fixing. They must have a big influx of calls as they are asking you to email Ecbrateincrease@ulsterbank.com with your details and they'll contact you within 48 hours. Hopefully I can get either through before the rate increase


I was able to apply for a new fix rate using the manage my mortgage website accessible from the app. It was a few months ago so maybe that option is not available any more.


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## Lisalefteye (23 Jun 2022)

IrishHusk said:


> I was able to apply for a new fix rate using the manage my mortgage website accessible from the app. It was a few months ago so maybe that option is not available any more.


No it says I'm not eligible to switch on the manage my mortgage section as I'm in a fixed rate until September. UB rang me within 20 minutes of sending an email to that address. They said they'd send out the break fee and the forms to refix. He really emphasised the break fee only being valid for 10 days and you need to get in touch within those 10 days to either pay it or let them know you are re fixing.


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## Midtablemanager (23 Jun 2022)

Lisalefteye said:


> No it says I'm not eligible to switch on the manage my mortgage section as I'm in a fixed rate until September. UB rang me within 20 minutes of sending an email to that address. They said they'd send out the break fee and the forms to refix. He really emphasised the break fee only being valid for 10 days and you need to get in touch within those 10 days to either pay it or let them know you are re fixing.



I've just emailed there to follow up with them. When you log into the Manage my mortgage, they ask you to send an email as well.


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## HollowKnight (23 Jun 2022)

I recently broke out of existing fixed rate, and re-fixed. 
Here is the timeline. 
May 20th - rang for break fee
May 30th - second letter arrived (break fee valid until June 6th)
May 31st - posted back rate selection and paid break fee over phone
June 14th - rang UB, they had received paperwork but were so busy they couldn't update my account
June 22nd - rang UB, the rate change was finalised that morning and letter was sent out.
June 23rd - rate change active on manage my mortgage


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## Midtablemanager (24 Jun 2022)

I'm still going through the process but given I requested my letters later than HollowKnight thought I'd share my timeline. I requested my letters the day before the ECB suggested they would increase interest rates in June so assume they got a deluge of requests in after that:

June 8th - Rang for break fee and rates options letter
June 17th - Received Break fee (valid to the 24th)
June 24th - Received Rates options letter (valid for 10 days)
June 24th - Rang UB to pay break fee of zero, said they'll just put a note on the account as there was nothing to pay. I noted I was just refixing. Completed rate form and put it in the post.


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## Paul F (25 Jun 2022)

@Lisalefteye I have recalculated the savings estimates for your situation but only considered Ulster Bank and Haven offers.

Your break fee should be around €220 at the moment.

Switching immediately to Haven's 4-year green fixed rate (2.0% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €2,560 over the next 4 years


Switching immediately to Haven's 5-year fixed rate (2.55% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €120 over the next 4 years


Switching immediately to Ulster Bank's 5-year fixed rate (2.2% with no cashback) will save you about €40 over the next 4 years. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
Note that if you decide to do this, your mortgage will soon move onto Permanent TSB's books, and they discriminate between new and existing customers, i.e., their best rates are not available to existing customers
For example, if you were an existing Permanent TSB customer, the best rate you would be able to switch to today is 2.8%
So if you switch to this Ulster Bank offer now, you will probably not be eligible to switch to one of Permanent TSB's low rates in the future and you will end up on a higher interest rate. When that happens, you may want to switch again to another lender, which will incur costs (and it might be impossible to switch if your financial situation has deteriorated).


Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €5,000 cashback) will leave you worse off by about €860 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate


Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €5,000 cashback) will leave you worse off by about €2,860 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate


Switching immediately to Ulster Bank's 7- or 10-year fixed rate (2.8% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €5,900 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 or 10 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed, *but you will probably need an updated valuation*).
The same warnings as above regarding higher Permanent TSB rates in the future apply


These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to the 2.2% rate with Ulster Bank when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Ulster Bank (or Permanent TSB, if they have taken over your mortgage by then) are even offering a 2.2% rate in October 2022 – it could be higher (or lower). The estimates also account for any fees (break fee, solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

*The estimates also assume that you get your loan-to-value ratio (LTV) below 60% in order eligible for the 7- and 10-year rates with Ulster Bank.* (You are already eligible for all of the other rates listed.) A slightly higher property valuation and/or a lump sum overpayment will get you below 60%.

As you know, interest rates could rise between now and the time that you complete any switch.

*Another option is to re-fix with Ulster Bank now but continue the process of switching to Haven.* You will need to hope that the break fee for leaving Ulster Bank is not very high, but if it looks like that is going to be the case (or if Haven put up their rates too much), you can abandon the switch – provided you have not become liable for solicitors' fees.


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## Lisalefteye (30 Jun 2022)

I emailed ub on 21/6. They phoned me the same day. Requested break fee and change/rates options form. Received rates option form 29/6. Phoned UB on 30/6 and paid break fee over the phone (didnt wait for break fee letter in the post) 30/6 posted signed rate options form back to UB. Hopefully it will go through quickly. Still no word from haven. Its been 9 weeks sent I gave all documents to the broker. Will I now cancel the application with Haven or let it run simultaneously?


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## Paul F (1 Jul 2022)

Lisalefteye said:


> Still no word from haven. Its been 9 weeks sent I gave all documents to the broker. Will I now cancel the application with Haven or let it run simultaneously?


Check with the broker if you will be liable for a fee if you cancel the switch at some point in the future. If you aren't liable for a fee, you could consider letting the application run. But note that you will have to engage a solicitor at some point, so also clarify with them how much they would charge if you abandoned the switch.


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## Lisalefteye (1 Jul 2022)

Thank you. Really appreciate the help everyone


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## Midtablemanager (8 Jul 2022)

Midtablemanager said:


> I'm still going through the process but given I requested my letters later than HollowKnight thought I'd share my timeline. I requested my letters the day before the ECB suggested they would increase interest rates in June so assume they got a deluge of requests in after that:
> 
> June 8th - Rang for break fee and rates options letter
> June 17th - Received Break fee (valid to the 24th)
> ...


 Update on mine, checked the Manage My Mortgage this morning and the refixed rate has been applied. So it was applied 2 weeks after I posted back the letter to UB.


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## newirishman (8 Jul 2022)

Midtablemanager said:


> Update on mine, checked the Manage My Mortgage this morning and the refixed rate has been applied. So it was applied 2 weeks after I posted back the letter to UB


Went through similar back in February/March. Despite refixing the rate way ahead and via both manage my mortgage and 2 letters, they still messed it up and it took another phonecall to get it sorted.
was 4 days on a higher variable rate. after some complaints and showing them evidence that I had selected the new rate way before going on variable UB refunded the interest difference.
Interestingly, their mortgage service call centre could see my letters coming in on time but someone just seemed to have forgotten to apply the rate in time.


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## Blackrock1 (8 Jul 2022)

Just logged in this morning and our rate has been updated to 2.2% fixed for 5 years, we sent the letter last friday.


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## Midtablemanager (8 Jul 2022)

newirishman said:


> Went through similar back in February/March. Despite refixing the rate way ahead and via both manage my mortgage and 2 letters, they still messed it up and it took another phonecall to get it sorted.
> was 4 days on a higher variable rate. after some complaints and showing them evidence that I had selected the new rate way before going on variable UB refunded the interest difference.
> Interestingly, their mortgage service call centre could see my letters coming in on time but someone just seemed to have forgotten to apply the rate in time.



I was lucky that mine was smoother but tbh was fully expecting that run into issues like you!


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## Lisalefteye (9 Jul 2022)

I see the new rate has been applied on my manage my mortgage page today, so 15 days from initial phone call to having the new rate applied. Thats very efficient to be fair. Haven just got back to us yesterday (10 weeks after we submitted all docs to broker) with an approval in principle and looking for more up to date bank statements as so much time has passed!


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## smndly (17 Jul 2022)

Does anyone have any idea how long Ulster bank will allow re-fixing given there impending exit from the market?


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## nephster (17 Jul 2022)

smndly said:


> Does anyone have any idea how long Ulster bank will allow re-fixing given there impending exit from the market?


You can choose any of their fixed rate options that apply to you (some have different rates for different LTVs, or for higher-value loans) - so, up to 10 years maximum.
Edit - D'oh, read that as you asking how long a term they would allow, not for how long the facility will be available. See @Paul F's reply below.


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## Paul F (17 Jul 2022)

smndly said:


> Does anyone have any idea how long Ulster bank will allow re-fixing given there impending exit from the market?


This is only a guess but I would say that they will allow you to re-fix almost right up to the point where the mortgages are officially transferred to Permanent TSB. If they did not allow this, they would be forcing people to roll off onto their variable rates, which are much higher than their fixed rates. I assume that they would not want the heat that this would generate from the CCPC, given how absolutely _terrifying_ they are 

On the other hand, people whose mortgages are now managed by Pepper, etc., do not have the option to re-fix, so maybe Ulster Bank will withdraw their fixed rates before the mortgage sale.





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Charlie Weston has an article on this issue in today's Indo.  https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/homeowners-whose-mortgages-were-sold-to-vultures-face-rate-rise-41769141.html  Large numbers of people whose mortgages have been sold to vulture funds now find...



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## michaelm (18 Jul 2022)

smndly said:


> Does anyone have any idea how long Ulster bank will allow re-fixing given there impending exit from the market?


Who knows when they will pull that rug.  I'd be all over it, like Oprah on a ham.  I paid a €54 break fee and re-fixed last week @ 2.35% till Oct 2027.  All very straightforward.


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## smndly (20 Jul 2022)

michaelm said:


> Who knows when they will pull that rug.  I'd be all over it, like Oprah on a ham.  I paid a €54 break fee and re-fixed last week @ 2.35% till Oct 2027.  All very straightforward.


I’ve done it already myself and found it exceptionally straightforward.  Reason I’m asking is to try and do it all over again in a few months time to lock in another few months provided break fee remains low. 

Thanks for the opinions. Hopefully they’ll keep offering it into the new year but we’ll have to see!


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## Blackrock1 (21 Jul 2022)

smndly said:


> I’ve done it already myself and found it exceptionally straightforward.  Reason I’m asking is to try and do it all over again in a few months time to lock in another few months provided break fee remains low.
> 
> Thanks for the opinions. Hopefully they’ll keep offering it into the new year but we’ll have to see!


i dont think the rates will stay at current levels too much longer


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## noelÓm (21 Jul 2022)

We rang up Ulster Bank in mid-June to request a break fee and term sheet. It took us about 2.5 weeks to receive anything in the post. We sent back the term sheet immediately and it took perhaps another 5-7 days for the online portal to update. We received a confirmation letter 3-4 days after that. Quite a long-winded process for a simple instruction, if I'm being honest. There was nothing in their correspondence that we couldn't find online, the break fee was €0 as we had already estimated ourselves, and anyway the break fee is mechanical and should have been made available to the person on the phone when we contacted the bank to begin with. Out-of-date technology and processes.


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## Wiresandmore (31 Jul 2022)

Are UB still offering the 2.2% 5-year fix?


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## newirishman (31 Jul 2022)

Wiresandmore said:


> Are UB still offering the 2.2% 5-year fix?


Look here: https://www.ulsterbank.ie/mortgages/mortgage-rates.html#fixedrates
And yes. if LTV < 80% and loan value > 250K
LTV < 60% gives a slightly better follow-on rate (not that it matters much come Oct 2027)


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## Wiresandmore (12 Aug 2022)

Confirming I was able to get a rate sheet to switch, arrived 3 days after phone call, pretty much as I had experienced in the past. Only issue was I was on hold for a very long time to get to speak to them in the first instance, almost an hour. That was much, much longer than in the past.


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## SPC100 (22 Aug 2022)

Did anyone manage to top up to 250k and then refix capture the cheaper rate? The rate for less than 250 is more expensive!


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## Paul F (22 Aug 2022)

SPC100 said:


> Did anyone manage to top up to 250k and then refix capture the cheaper rate? The rate for less than 250 is more expensive!


I don't know if anybody managed to do this but be aware that the deadline for applying for a topup with Ulster Bank is 26 August 2022.

The risk is that while you wait for the topup to be approved, Ulster Bank could put up their rates.


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## JanusGold (23 Aug 2022)

I emailed UB last Friday about refixing a 5 year that has 3.5 years to run back to 5 years. They sent me all the forms with options ranging from 2 years fixed to 10 years and variable etc. However there is nothing about a breakage fee. Do I have to request that separately? I assume so. The forms I have must be sent back within 10 working days. So I’m wondering will that give me enough time to determine the breakage fee in writing?

Thanks!


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## Paul F (23 Aug 2022)

JanusGold said:


> I emailed UB last Friday about refixing a 5 year that has 3.5 years to run back to 5 years. They sent me all the forms with options ranging from 2 years fixed to 10 years and variable etc. However there is nothing about a breakage fee. Do I have to request that separately? I assume so. The forms I have must be sent back within 10 working days. So I’m wondering will that give me enough time to determine the breakage fee in writing?


You will receive *two separate letters* from Ulster Bank a few days apart, and their structure and wording can lead to confusion. Look for the line that says: "To break out of this fixed rate early, you would have to pay a fee of €X". That amount is your break fee. Ignore all other references to break fees.

When did you receive the forms?


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## JanusGold (24 Aug 2022)

Paul F said:


> You will receive *two separate letters* from Ulster Bank a few days apart, and their structure and wording can lead to confusion. Look for the line that says: "To break out of this fixed rate early, you would have to pay a fee of €X". That amount is your break fee. Ignore all other references to break fees.
> 
> When did you receive the forms?


Ah okay that makes sense thanks. I received the first set of forms Tuesday having emailed UB on last Friday. The only form that arrived is their current interest rate offerings for various terms, it also gives indicative break fees for each option (based on six months interest), but makes no mention of the break fee for the current loan. But two separate forms make sense now. Thanks.


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## JanusGold (24 Aug 2022)

The only other thing I’m struggling with is whether to re-fix for 5 years at 2.2% or go 10 years at 2.8%?

The 0.6% difference seems a lot now. But in essence it could be one increment of many by the ECB. In five years if ECB rates are 6 or 7 percent then 2.8% looks like a bargain! But it makes a current difference of €115 a month, which for the next five years will cost €7,000 more. 

I have 18 years left on a 400k mortgage with a 50% LTV and have no intention of ever moving house again! Somehow my gut tells me the five year option is the better one though. 

I guess short of a crystal ball no one knows, but realistically will we ever see 2% rates again in our life times? Or if there’s a sharp recession will things end up back down at 0%. It’s a dilemma that in hindsight will seem obvious!


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## Paul F (24 Aug 2022)

JanusGold said:


> The only other thing I’m struggling with is whether to re-fix for 5 years at 2.2% or go 10 years at 2.8%?
> 
> The 0.6% difference seems a lot now. But in essence it could be one increment of many by the ECB. In five years if ECB rates are 6 or 7 percent then 2.8% looks like a bargain! But it makes a current difference of €115 a month, which for the next five years will cost €7,000 more.


@JanusGold You have made a mistake that lots of people make when estimating savings. You will actually be better off by about by about €10,900 after five years if you go with the 5-year fixed rate. That is because not only will your monthly repayment be lower, but your balance after five years will also be lower.



JanusGold said:


> I have 18 years left on a 400k mortgage with a 50% LTV and have no intention of ever moving house again! Somehow my gut tells me the five year option is the better one though.
> 
> I guess short of a crystal ball no one knows, but realistically will we ever see 2% rates again in our life times? Or if there’s a sharp recession will things end up back down at 0%. It’s a dilemma that in hindsight will seem obvious!


In all other respects your analysis is basically sound. But note that if inflation remains high for a few years, the €10,900 in savings will not be worth as much in real terms over the next five years and longer (see this thread).

Note that if you fix for ten years, you do not have to worry about an extremely large break fee in the future if you break before the ten years are up. That is because the calculation behind the "indicative break fees for each option (based on six months interest)" that you spotted in your letter from Ulster Bank is part of your contract. So this cap of six months' interest cannot be removed by Permanent TSB when they take over your mortgage (see here).

There is no single right answer to the decision but you can be pretty sure that if you fix for five years you will want to switch to another lender at the end of the fixed period. That is because Permanent TSB discriminate between new and existing customers, i.e., their best rates are not available to existing customers. (You may also want to switch at the end of the ten-year fixed rate but it probably won't matter as much, as there will only be 8 years left on your mortgage at that point.)


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## Paul F (25 Aug 2022)

@JanusGold Did you receive the second letter from Ulster Bank?

They have changed the wording a bit. Look for the line that says:


> Based on today's information this would result in an early redemption charge of €X to no longer be bound by this fixed rate.



That amount is your break fee. Ignore all other references to break fees/breakage costs.


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## DublinD (25 Aug 2022)

JanusGold said:


> Ah okay that makes sense thanks. I received the first set of forms Tuesday having emailed UB on last Friday. The only form that arrived is their current interest rate offerings for various terms, it also gives indicative break fees for each option (based on six months interest), but makes no mention of the break fee for the current loan. But two separate forms make sense now. Thanks.


Once youve requested the break fee from them, give it a few days and ring them. The break fee amount will be on the system and they can tell you it over the phone . My letter was a week or more arriving..one time it never arrived..


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## JanusGold (27 Aug 2022)

Paul F said:


> @JanusGold Did you receive the second letter from Ulster Bank?
> 
> They have changed the wording a bit. Look for the line that says:
> 
> ...


Yes the second letter came and luckily the break fee is zero. So all the forms are signed and returned.


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## Paul F (27 Aug 2022)

JanusGold said:


> Yes the second letter came and luckily the break fee is zero. So all the forms are signed and returned.


Cool. How long did you re-fix for in the end?


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## JanusGold (28 Aug 2022)

Went for the five years again.


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## Paul F (28 Aug 2022)

JanusGold said:


> Went for the five years again.


Thanks


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## noelÓm (16 Oct 2022)

We broke out of our fixed rate with Ulster Bank last week to get a 5-year fix until 31/12/2027. This was the second time we have done this in 2022 and the break fee was again zero. Process was swift this time. 4 working days to receive the break fee estimate and rate sheet. The rate sheet was dated 1 working day after we called up. Perhaps useful for anyone thinking of calling up tomorrow morning first thing!


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