# Show me the Money No 3



## Sally (23 Jan 2004)

Last night's show sparked a lively debate in our house. It posed a real dilemma. To sell or not to sell the second home. I was stunnned that the couple managed to refinance into the mortgage a third time, for 30 thousand. If I heard correctly that's 80 thousand over a couple of years! 

I wonder if the Central Bank was watching!


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## Cahir (23 Jan 2004)

I thought the show was great!!!

That couple were so bad with money, it made me feel sensible!


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## paulie (23 Jan 2004)

*-*

Frankly I had absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever. Originally spending over €600 per month on booze (no i'm not from the local temperance society) as well as takeways etc. pah!!

Also their obsession with their almost mythological apartment in Donegal. 

You could see Eddie was almost despairing with them at the end. He is dead right about creche fees and any increase in interest rates will absolutely cripple them. I think he felt that it was a case of when rather than if they will have to sell the second property.


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## Rmul (23 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

Sally - its IFSRA now, and if Mary O Dea was watching I she might just get an insight into what's really happening on the ground. I was shocked myself, but maybe thats naive? 

Maybe it just goes to show that money isn't just about logic, not when deep human emotions and different attitudes come into play?

The moral question is where the balance of fault lies. OK there's the couple, but is Hobbs irresponsible for not preventing them? Is IIB responsible for allowing them? Is IFSRA responsible in turn for setting rules for lenders?


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## rainyday (23 Jan 2004)

*Re: SMTM*

I thought Eddie missed the opportunity to point out that refinancing over a longer period will ultimately make them poorer. It eases their immediate cash flow problems, but they will end up paying out more interest to the bank in the long term.


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## antiextortionist (23 Jan 2004)

*central bank and ifsra*

sally and rmul

ifsra is an organisation run by bankers for bankers to the detriment of all others. and i mean ALL others.what would you expect? they will not reprimand their own, at least not in public.


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## Pan (23 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

The show was classic! Rainyday - I thought that Eddie's face and bemusement reflected what most viewers thought. He couldn't have been more direct- sell the house in Donegal - what kind of number would frighten you! But what can you do when the hubby says things like "I've a fixed variable mortgage"! God all mighty.

If they weren't froghtened by the short term argument like the creche and car costs, how could a long term argument sway them. The couple are reflective of many people, ah sure we'll struggle on!


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## daltonr (23 Jan 2004)

*Re: SMTM*

The shows are getting better each week.  This might actually be a clever strategy from RTE.  Who'd have believed that!!!!

Poor old Eddie, they all keep ignoring his advice.  Last week the extra borrowing for a holiday just as he was getting them on the straight and narrow.  This week the 27 year refinance.

I missed a few minutes at the start, I didn't notice Eddie mentioning anything about the ability to save.
They seem to have resigned themselves to 27 years of not saving or investing.  I presume the logic is that the houses will be their nest egg.  

Was there any mension of a pension?  Or school/college fees?  The kid who hadn't been born yet will be almost 30 when the debts were cleared.

I hope plans are already afoot for a follow up show in a year or two with the various families.

-Rd


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (23 Jan 2004)

> Frankly I had absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever. Originally spending over €600 per month on booze (no i'm not from the local temperance society) as well as takeways etc. pah!!



But don't you see - it's "rip off Ireland" that's to blame really... :lol


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## Protocol (23 Jan 2004)

*some figures*

Just to add some figures to the discussion.

I think their take-home pay was €50k total.

So-called "lifestyle" loans over past 18 months were €52k.  This consisted to two mortgage top-ups and two personal loans.  On top of the original mortgage debt.  SHOCKING.

Loan repayments were now 52% of income. Way too high.

After spending cutbacks, and the new longer-term consolidated mortgage, the repayments were a more manageable 37% of income.

But, as was pointed out, extra creche fees and a hike in interest rates would push this back up to 50% of income.


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## Sarah Wellband (23 Jan 2004)

*Re: some figures*

Great show but I couldn't understand why Eddie didn't suggest them letting the Donegal property either long term or as a holiday home during the summer season. I did feel sorry for him though, like a lot of these shows (Property Ladder is a prime example) people are getting invaluable advice from an expert and totally disregarding it!

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## Seven of Nine (23 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

Sarah's right, but that's the fun isn't it. Money is a lot more complex than we think, because of the people handling it. As for renting a Donegal appartment, I'd guess that this couple would lose their lives. They want to be in it on demand, and rents realistically would only be available June to Sept -precisely when the Art Teacher is off work?


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## 2004 (23 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

If they don't replace their car soon, Donegal won't be an issue.


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## ParkLane (23 Jan 2004)

*It's not our fault that we ahve no money....Doh!*

A colleague of mine was on debt collection for a building society. A couple were €10k in arrears on their mortgage.
When he called to the house there were two brand new cars in the driveway.
Their excuse for not paying their mortgage. "We don't have the money".
Another couple got a loan for a brand new kitchen based on their salaries etc. One year later and no repayments.
Their excuse "The kitchen supplier told us that if we used our new kitchen as a show kitchen he would pay us €50 per visit, but he has sent nobody to view it, so we won't be paying back the loan unless he sends someone"

There are some really really stupid people out there.


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## Tommy (24 Jan 2004)

*Re: It's not our fault that we ahve no money....Doh!*

Eddie mentioned last night that the couple had already missed (or paid late) *13* mortgage repayments!

I felt a bit sorry for them in their naivete but then again I felt they were being irresponsible. Their kids will be the ones to suffer if there isnt enough money to meet basic living needs in 5-10 years time (let alone 27 years time). If there are many people like them, the property market could come under pressure if banks get tough and force people to sell properties to reduce borrowings.


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## daltonr (24 Jan 2004)

*13 missed Payments*

I noticed that too.  What the hell was the lender doing letting these people Re-mortage two properties again (what was it the 3rd time in a year?

Was the fact that there were TV camera's involved an ssue?  Did IIB not want to be seen as turning them down?  If so then it's a weakness in the show, similar to the 30,000 CU loan in the last episode.

-Rd


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## endowed (24 Jan 2004)

*"Don't draw the wrong conclusions" Dept.*

Interesting show last night. Isn't it great that one can feel so relaxed about one's finances?  

Just veering slightly off-topic for a moment. While browsing through the TV pages of today's _Examiner_, I noticed a picture of Eddie (the one where he's beside the Central Bank(?) in serious pose mode) and I thought "Oh,oh, 'de paper' is getting their days mixed up" but, no, they were plugging the repeat edition of the show that's on at 3pm on Fridays. 

It would be interesting to see what kind of audience SMTM gets at that time of the day?


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## Ear to the ground (24 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

Interesting how RTE's "Factuals" are doing. According to the advertising people SMTM is sharing the top two places with PrimeTime. Everything getting bigger audiences are soaps and entertainment like The Late Late. Just goes to show the nerve its hitting.


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## Surviving Ok (24 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

Good programme so far but when will Eddie deal with the affairs of some people who are not total donkeys when it comes to money.
I would like to see how Eddie would advise in a situation where the subjects are at a minimum responsible people with aspirations to extracting maximum return from their income.
ie Saving for retirement, saving for college, maybe trying to get a second property up and running. With all due respects theres not a lot more to be learned from looking at the sins of the financial heads in the sand club.


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## Sally (24 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

Surviving OK has a good point, but my guess is that the people who come forward are those most concerned, and in most cases that doesn't include those doing OK, just looking for improvements, but, then again, based on the mix so far I wouldn't be surprised to find a few over the next few weeks. 

What I like is the diversity of people so far. Its the people rather than the nuances and differences in their financial story that makes it work on TV I'd say. I think there's another 6 or 8 left in the series? But so far, and I thought i'd never say this, RTE has done a fine job - lots of ordinary people who didn't discuss each others money situations are beginning to talk to each other, even if its very cautiously so far. If SMTM helps break the ice it will have been a success.


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## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (24 Jan 2004)

*Re: SMTM*



> RTE has done a fine job



Actually it's an independent production by Agtel, presumably commissioned by RTE, in case that makes any difference.

www.agtel.ie/


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## Murt10 (24 Jan 2004)

What a pair of total wallies. 

No doubt they will be down at the Health board, the VdeP and MABS in the near future because they can no longer service their debts. We the taxpayers will end up either rehousing them if they are evicted or paying the interest on their mortgage if they aren't. Great country.

Assuming that they gave the IIB bank the correct information to start with, I hope whoever decided they were creditworthy will be called into their boss's office for a chat.

I would love to see the B/S going to court for a repossession in this case and the judge throwing the case out because the lender acted in a stupid reckless and unreasonable manner in allowing them to keep extending their loans in the first place. 

IIB bank would have their credit history and it must be totally obvious to anyone that they were living way beyond their means and it is not a case of if they get into more trouble but when they get into trouble.

The amount paid to the creche also alarmed me. They are paying E800 pm now and this will rise to E1,600 when No 2 arrives. This money is paid out after they have paid tax on it. That is the guts of E20,000 pa out of a take home income of E52,000.  One of them should consider taking a few years off work to look after the children as from what I can see they will only be working for the creche. If its the woman she might even consider taking in a child or two herself.


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## PEM (25 Jan 2004)

It's unfair to compare Eddie Hobbs to Alvin Hall but this show is the pits.  It's more of a human interest 'profligate middle class uncovered' than anything that provides strategic information on what to do if you are borrowed up to the hilt, etc. Except for a rather prurient interest in the financial problems of others there is a zero informational content in this show.  Refinancing all your debts may not be the ideal solution for everybody. And for those that it is the show gave no ideas on how to decide if refinancing is appropriate, how to obtain refinancing, the risks involved, etc. A real no-brainer and pretty bad all around.


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## Harry (25 Jan 2004)

*Above*

Heavens above! We're all entitled to out views even if its 2.O'Clock in the morning, after a Saturday night out! I think its a good show but it does depend on your expectations, and your preconceived attitude to the presenter I suppose. The third was the best one for me. Theres a lengthy piece today in the SBP about Credit Unions by Kathleen Barrington.


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## endowed (26 Jan 2004)

*SBP*

[broken link removed] article.


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## Freddie (26 Jan 2004)

*SBP*



> Commenting on the credit unions' ambitions to expand in the mortgage market, O'Regan said the banking sector had no concerns about competition from the credit unions - provided that they operated on a level playing field with the banks.



That's rich


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## solidpro (28 Jan 2004)

*SMTM*

a couple of points, 

I work for AIB, we refuse people home loans every day of the week that would have good savings records and unblemished credit records, as a result we have a very low proportion of the FTB market...now I know why!!! 13 missed mort payments is unbelievable...if a customer of ours had a couple of missed payments on a car loan they could probably kiss any future borrowings goodbye, unless there was a reasonable explanation for same!!! cant believe they got sanctioned by iib...ridiculous..I know that IFG have a product specifically for people who have fallen behind in mortgage..but not up to 13 payments id say!


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## broke (30 Jan 2004)

*living on the never never*

Didn't see this RTE programme but have noticed the number of similar shows appearing on all channels in primetime.  
BBC had a show the other night.  The part I saw was about a seemingly intelligent working woman with an above average income, with a £25,000 credit card bill she got from buying buying buying with no restraint whatsoever.  
It is madness.  The way there are so many programmes about bad debts on television shows a lot of people are in big financial trouble out there.


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## rainyday (30 Jan 2004)

*Re: living on the never never*

Closing this thread - Start talking about episode 4 .


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