# Unmarried couple- best approach to birth cert



## emefox (13 Jul 2006)

hi

myself and my partner are expecting our first child soon and are not sure what to do about the bith cert.  

i have been told that the best thing to do is to put both surnames on the birth cert as if anything happened to one of us, and if the others name is not on the birth cert it can cause legal difficulties.  our aim is to get married at some stage but in the meantime has anyone elese been in this situation and what is the best route to take ............
Thanks


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## gauloise (13 Jul 2006)

emefox said:
			
		

> hi
> 
> myself and my partner are expecting our first child soon and are not sure what to do about the bith cert.
> 
> ...


 
Yes put both names on cert.. All our our children were born "out of wedlock" and all took husband to be's name on cert with my name also mentioned.


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## nelly (13 Jul 2006)

be honest about it and where it says fathers name and mothers name put your own correct names. there are advantages and disadvantages i guess, but it is what i would do.


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## gauloise (13 Jul 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> be honest about it and where it says fathers name and mothers name put your own correct names. there are advantages and disadvantages i guess, but it is what i would do.


 
I wasn't aware that there were any disadvantages of putting father's name down..could you explain what they are?


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## ClubMan (13 Jul 2006)

For what it's worth - from :


> Married parents of a child are "joint-guardians" and have equal rights in relation to the child. The rights of parents to guardianship are set down in .
> For children born outside of marriage in Ireland, only the mother has automatic rights to guardianship. (Even though a father's name may be registered on the child's birth certificate, this does not give him any guardianship rights in respect of his child). Read more in 'Rules' below.
> 
> *Rules*
> ...


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## gauloise (13 Jul 2006)

Thanks's Clubman. Are guardianship rites automatically given to father should couple marry at a later date?


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## purplealien (13 Jul 2006)

gauloise said:
			
		

> Are guardianship rites automatically given to father should couple marry at a later date?


Yes
I was in a similar posistion as you and i gave my son his fathers surname on the birth cert as we were getting married the next year. If you too are getting married you should just put the fathers surname on.


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## ClubMan (13 Jul 2006)

Just to clarify - I presume that this only applies if the husband is the biological father of the child and if he is not then he would have to formally adopt the child?


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## purplealien (13 Jul 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Just to clarify - I presume that this only applies if the husband is the biological father of the child and if he is not then he would have to formally adopt the child?


Correct!


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## Marie M (13 Jul 2006)

You either put the fathers name down or it is presuemed unknown. As far as I know you can not go back and change it at a later date.


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## Jane (13 Jul 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> *Rules
> 
> *If a child in Ireland is born out outside of marriage, the mother is the *sole guardian*. The position of the unmarried father of the child is not so certain. If the mother agrees, the father can become a joint-guardian if both parents sign a "statutory declaration":


 
I didn't realise that.  That's terribly unfair.


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## dubinamerica (13 Jul 2006)

When we went to chagne our names legally (after getting married) the consulate told us that we just had to bring in the marriage cert to get new passport for myself and our child. If my now husband's name had not been on the birth cert then I think we would have had to go through the courts. Not sure whether having the name down gives any additional legal rights to the father (if couple unmarried) so it might be worth checking that out with a solicitor to see if you can draw up a doc if you think that may be necessary.


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## ClubMan (14 Jul 2006)

dubinamerica said:
			
		

> When we went to chagne our names legally (after getting married)  the consulate


 What do you mean? I didn't think that there was any legal process in _Ireland_ to change one's name (by deed poll or whatever)? Do you mean that you just wanted to change your name on documents such as passport etc.? What consulate?


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## bond-007 (14 Jul 2006)

Deed polls do exist. I changed my name by deed poll about 2 years ago. Very straight forward procedure.


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## ClubMan (14 Jul 2006)

Ah - thanks. I didn't realise that. But in relation to _dubinamerica's _comment about changing name(s) legally:


> The only way to legally record the change of name is by executing a Deed Poll.


Do you mind me asking why you changed your name by deed poll? Feel free not to answer!


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## bond-007 (14 Jul 2006)

When I got married I wanted to take my wifes name. No one would recognise a man taking the wifes surname, not even with a marriage cert. My solicitor suggested doing a deed poll. I had no problems after that. Got a new passport and driving licence easily once I had the deed poll back from the high court.


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## huskerdu (18 Jul 2006)

In answer to the original question, the birth cert is supposed to have both parents names, so in the absense of a good reason, you should do that. 
Is there nay reason why you would consider not putting the father name on the birth cert, as you are in a commited relationship and he is the childs father. 
I can see no legal or other reason for leaving his name off. 

You will still have to ensure that he is the legal guardian of the child, if you do not marry, as has been pointed out


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## dam099 (18 Jul 2006)

Apart from all the legal issues what about the child? If as in this case the father is known then surely it is better for the childs mental wellbeing in the future for their father to be listed on the birth cert rather than unknown? Leaving it as unknown could create doubts and other personal issues for the child somewhere down the line.


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## CMCR (18 Jul 2006)

Treoir have published a [broken link removed].


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## Wonderwoman (19 Jul 2006)

I think you have missed the point... the OP is asking whether or not to give the child one surname(the fathers) or to give the child both parents surnames (mother's and Father's, double barrelled I would think). If Miss Smith and Mr Jones have a baby unmarried or married, they can decide to give the baby the surname, Smith, or Jones or Smith-Jones. The most common for a married couple would be Jones. A woman maybe not having the father around would just have Smith as the baby's surname, even if father is named on cert. I would personally think that if you are not married on the day that the baby is born, give the child the Smith-Jones as surname. Then all options are there for parents depending on their future circumstances.


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## SetantaL (19 Jul 2006)

I'm an unmarried father myself with a corp law degree and a masters.

In relation to birth certs, putting both names down is best for an unmarried couple.

If you intend to get married at a later date then you can apply to have the child legitimised under the 1923 Legitimacy Act. There have been a number of cases brought under constitiutional law via unmarried fathers but the courts have upheld legitimate discrimination on constitutional grounds and this probably won;t change without the Oireachtas approaching the issue.

In short, your name on the birth cert does not grant any legal rights per se but you can apply via such to be appointed a guardian which would carry rights. The only right that you really have as an unmarried father is that the child cannot leave the jurisdiction without your express permission.


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## orka (20 Jul 2006)

Are there any practical benefits to 'legitimising' a child?  Our first child was born before we were married, he was given our (now) married name (my husband's) as his surname and I was listed as his mother with my maiden name.  We were told at the time that if/when we got married we could get a new birth cert with me listed with my married name instead of my maiden name.  I presumed this was to spare the child the 'shame' of having to show a birth cert with unmarried parents on it.  We never got around to doing it (14/15 years ago) and I don't think he or we care what's on his birth cert.  But what's this 'legitimising'? Do we need to do anything about that?


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## bond-007 (20 Jul 2006)

You do nothing. Your child was automatically legitimised when you 2 got married. 
As for benefits of legitimisation, if anything happened to your husband god forbid, your son would have problems getting anything from his estate if you 2 were unmarried.


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## SetantaL (20 Jul 2006)

That's is actually incorrect. A child is not automatically legitimised by virtue of the parents getting married, you do have to fill in a form and send it in.

The difference is in the absence of a will expressly bestowing the estate onto your child, legitimate children have more right to the estate than illegitimate children and could feasibly sue for the entire estate.
To cover all your bases and to avoid any trouble later on down the line I would apply. You can actually get the form off www.irlgov.ie 

As for changing the birth cert, that cannot be done. You can apply to have an amendment made to a birth cert issued but the original stays on public record.


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## OneAndOnly (24 Jul 2006)

SetantaL said:
			
		

> That's is actually incorrect. A child is not automatically legitimised by virtue of the parents getting married, you do have to fill in a form and send it in.
> 
> The difference is in the absence of a will expressly bestowing the estate onto your child, legitimate children have more right to the estate than illegitimate children and could feasibly sue for the entire estate.
> To cover all your bases and to avoid any trouble later on down the line I would apply. You can actually get the form off www.irlgov.ie
> ...


 
Any idea where that form is?

Have had a good look and can't locate it.

Ta


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## Satanta (25 Jul 2006)

Simply from the childs point of view, as stated previously, it may save some headaches later down the line (is it really my father? why isn't he down? etc). It does seem a slightly complicated situation so be sure your happy with whatever route you do decide to take.


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## miak (28 Jul 2006)

I was under the impression that since the Status of Children Act, 1987 there could be no discrimination between marital and non marital children for the purposes of succession.


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## Purple (11 Aug 2006)

SetantaL said:


> The difference is in the absence of a will expressly bestowing the estate onto your child, legitimate children have more right to the estate than illegitimate children and could feasibly sue for the entire estate.


Does this mean that illegitimate children would be assessed for inheritance tax?


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## zag (11 Aug 2006)

This is possibly going off on a tangent as it does not relate directly to the original posters question, but does anyone know whether the birth registration form is a statutory form ?  I would imagine it is.

If this was the case then presumably there is some onus (possibly legal) on whoever is filling in the form not to withold information or provide false information - just like for a passport application, or an income tax return.

I know in practice there many reasons why some people may not fill in the form with the correct fathers details, but it would be interesting to know whether this was likely to be illegal or not.

As I say, this does not reflect on the original posters question.

z


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## zag (11 Aug 2006)

Purple - I understgand that the term 'illegitimate children' has no legal standing these days and to be honest is a pretty awful term to use in my opinion.

All children are legitimate - until they become adults and then they are legitimate adults.  There is no such thing as an illegitimate adult, is there ?

z


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## Purple (11 Aug 2006)

zag said:
			
		

> Purple - I understgand that the term 'illegitimate children' has no legal standing these days and to be honest is a pretty awful term to use in my opinion.


 I agree. I used it only because it is the term used on this thread.


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## amazinevents (11 Aug 2006)

Ok Nomatter what the situation unless the father is abusive,violent and there are extinuating circumstances the child should be given the fathers name on the birth cert. I feel strongly about this because My husband was born out of wedlock and given his mothers name on his birth certificate.A year later his parents got married and had 7 other children. Growing up everyone considered my husband Houlihan his fathers name but when he went to school, had to get a passport among other things he had to go by Walsh and this caused alot of confusion for himself and other people him often getting teased in school that he didnt have a father ect. Children can be cruel without even realizing how cruel they are being. Emotionally this has affected my husband and and he often has wondered if there was some reason why he does not have his fathers name. He even went through a stage where he thought his father didnt love him as much as his siblings which is not the case but it did efect him. 
Also,when we were getting married and we sent out invites some guest who wouldnt have known us that well Parents friends,aunts distant cousins ect who our familys felt had to be invited didnt realize who was getting married as on the invites we listed my husband by Walsh which is his legal name and what we had to get married under and some people didnt even reply because they didnt realize who was getting married to afterwards.Still everyone knows us as the Houilans but legally we are Walsh's.Just a very confusing situation all around just because he wasnt given his fathers name on birth cert and they to were of the misunderstanding that when they got married he would automatically be a Houlihan which is so not true.


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## amazinevents (11 Aug 2006)

Also on the same subject my husband was with another woman for 10 years and in that time they had 2 children this was long before we got together btw.She being the way she is a subject for a different page refused to even put his name on the childrens birthcertificate and insisted they took her name. My husband didnt argue with her as he assumed they would get married and that would be rectified However after 10 years and 3 proposals turned down they still werent married and they seperated. 
He still got to spend time with his daughters everyday and was a mojor part of their lives until we got together as soon as we got together she refused to let him see his daughters. A case of I dont want him but noone else can have him. He did everything he could to see his daughters but it wasnt to be so he had to take court actions. Where we found out that he had no rights to his children he is there father for crying out loud how can he have no rights. Thats the way it was if a father isnt named on the birthcertificate they have no rights as a guardian.If anything happens to the child it would go to emergency foster care before it goes to their father. We got married as that was a rule the judge had he couldnt be living with me and have access to his children he had to be married. 
He now has guardianship and access but still never gets to see his daughters although they want to see him their mother wont let it and basically tells the girls that they have to choose between himself and her which is totally wrong but they way it is and without going back to court again he wont get to see them. He is wary of doing that as the judges tend to decide with the mothers in this situation. I am sorry I as well went a bit off the original topic but my point is unless the fathers name is on the cert. if god forbid anything happend to yourself even married he would have no rights your child so if you are in a solid relationship and getting married anyhow give your child his name. Then thats just my oppion


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