# Why is my house not selling? What do first time buyers want?



## Janev (30 Jan 2013)

I am trying to sell a house in order to trade up. It is a 3 bed terrace, target market is first time buyers (as we were when we bought it).
I am realistic and know that it’s a crazy time to be a seller… but not bad if you are a buyer and I’m both I suppose!
It has been on the market for quite a while and I want to understand why my house is so unattractive. We have had plenty of viewings, nearly all first time buyers, but never had even one second viewing let alone an offer!
We have reduced the price twice. Out of let’s say 10 similar properties we are the 3rd cheapest asking price now. 

Estate agent claims all advertised asking prices are too high and buyers won’t even view properties at the current prices. My opinion is that if those 
are the average asking prices in an area across various agencies then it must be a realistic enough guideline, your thoughts on this appreciated???

The other thing estate agent claims is that first time buyers do not see asking prices as negotiable. I think this is mad! My asking price is definitely negotiable, I have factored in wriggle room and fully expect any buyer to put in a low offer to which we will haggle over and settle on something fair.
However estate agent thinks I should lower asking price to my absolute bottom line. I feel that if I did that then a buyer will just put in a lower offer and then I can’t afford to sell and buy something else. Again your thoughts/opinion on this???

Last thing – Feedback – Do you give real constructive feedback to agents after a viewing? And has an agent called you back after say a week or two to see if you are interested in a second viewing or offer and if not why not? And would you be happy to be approached like this? 
I constantly beg for constructive or critical feedback on the house but agent always give me the same one liner “they like the house and have a few more in the area they want to look at” and I never hear from them again. I would prefer if they said they didn’t like it and would never buy the house because………  so that I would be able to tell if it is price, décor, space, location etc… (ie. Something in my control or out of my control)

Any comments very much appreciated!


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## Knuttell (30 Jan 2013)

> I think this is mad! *My asking price is definitely negotiable,* I have factored in wriggle room and fully expect any buyer to put in a low offer to which we will haggle over and settle on something fair.



I sold our house early in 2012,I looked at what the prices were for similar properties and undercut them all,result we got a lot of viewings and 2 offers but no bidding war.

I knew pretty much the value of the property and how much they had fallen in Dublin,my price was bang on.I left no wriggle room and got within a few grand of my asking.It took 6 weeks to get it sold.

If you are serious about selling then I suggest you do the same,its not a sellers market so act accordingly.


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## Dave Vanian (30 Jan 2013)

Janev said:


> Out of let’s say 10 similar properties we are the 3rd cheapest asking price now.


 
Be the cheapest.


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## TenantRef (30 Jan 2013)

I think the best way to deal with this is to go to the vendor of the property that you are purchasing (or find one if you havent already done so).

And explain the scenario that you are waiting to sell in order to buy. I know one guy who had 50k to put to his house when he sold it in order to trade up. He found the house he wanted to buy and explained the scenario to the agent. Throughout the entire process the agent (selling of property No.2) knew that the maximum he was being offered was the sale price of house No.1 plus 50k the sale process of house No.1 took six months the agent had obviously briefed his client as to what was on offer.
In the end house No.2 was purchased for 20k below asking price because the agent knew the offer was genuine and no other offers came in, in the mean time.

I think people will accept a lesser offer these days if they know that they will not be getting messed about. There is a terrible amount of uncertainty in the market which is freezing the life out of the market as much as the lack of funding around.


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## CadillacMan (30 Jan 2013)

We got full asking price in March 12 after 10 days on the market but had undercut also.  A house across the street was priced 1.5k more and took a good 4-6 months longer before shifting.  So going a couple of grand lower than the cheapest in your estate/area for comparable properties seems to work.  If someone likes the estate they will see yours as good value and probably won't mess around.
I have been called up once by an estate agent a couple of weeks after viewing a house but had to tactfully find a way of saying the house wasn't for us.  The house we bought was one we went to rule out and was not perfect but we knew within the first two minutes that it could work for us.  Therefore, I don't see the value in getting your estate agent to call viewers re a second viewing, if they want the house they will seek a second viewing.
I would comment about things I didn't like about a house to the estate agent, but only if i was interested in the house and wanted to create wriggle room on price.  I might not say anything if I knew it was a definite no-no.  
Finally, i don't think estate agents like to pass on negative feedback.  I think they don't like confrontation with either the vendor or potential purchaser.
I would tend to agree with all of the other posters on this one so far.


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## ontour (30 Jan 2013)

Have you looked at the property price register to see if any houses are actually selling and the prices that they are achieving?


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## twofor1 (30 Jan 2013)

Janev said:


> Any comments very much appreciated!


 
You don’t say where the house is, if in a city it's far more saleable, but doesent mean it will sell, but has a better chance of selling than an apartment.

I have an apartment for sale in Louth for the past 18 months, most of that time mine has been the cheapest by far and is one of the better of the 12/15 for sale in a scheme of around 90.

To date I have had 3 phone calls, probably from other sellers or agents and no viewings.

Given that 90 people originally bought these apartments, I would have thought there must be 1 person out there over the past 18 months that wanted to trade down or live close to family or own their own place at an affordable price, etc, etc.

This does not seem to be the case.

AFAIK there are no issues with these apartments, and none of the others have sold either.

Today, some properties are just not selling.


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## Knuttell (31 Jan 2013)

twofor1 said:


> I have an apartment for sale in Louth for the past 18 months, most of that time mine has been the cheapest by far and is one of the better of the 12/15 for sale in a scheme of around 90.



Apt even in centrally located.good city areas are having trouble selling,apts in Louth would have even less demand particularly as some lenders are not lending for apts outside large conurbations and probably because the boom time buyers of your apts priced out of the 2 bed town house now find they can afford a 3 bed semi or better in rural locations in the current market.

I have heard of 9 apts for sale for €90k as a job lot in similar locations where apts should never have been built.

You are not comparing like for like experiences when it comes to undercutting the price and finding a buyer.


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## serotoninsid (31 Jan 2013)

Knuttell said:


> I have heard of 9 apts for sale for €90k as a job lot in similar locations where apts should never have been built.


Just curious - but where is/was that exactly?


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## Bronte (31 Jan 2013)

The estate agent is correct asking prices are too high.  Anyone interested in a property will ask for a second viewing, nothing to do with the estate agent.  In my opinion a house sells itself.  Location and price and make it presentable (neutral colours and no clutter).

OP reduce your price and stop messing around.

Twofor1, the market for apartments apart from Dublin and about 2 other cities is non existent.  In addition most banks will not give a mortgage on such property.  How about pretending to be a potential mortgage applicant for your property and getting the banks valuer to value you it and then you'll see the reality of the situation.  And why would anyone buy a badly built and designed apartment if they can have a house that has more space etc.  (I'm not suggesting yours is badly built, but I've yet to see a decent apartment in Ireland, there are a few - but very few)

I know of one very large 12 bed house in very good nick, with planning permission for conversion into apartments, in an easily rentable location in a city (not Dublin).  On the Estate agents website it's listed at 160K but it's being sold for 50K.  This is the 'real' market.  

Knuttall's comments about 9 apartments for 90K sounds about right to me from my study of this matter.  We are not talking the Dublin market here.  There are properties that are unsaleable at any price, that is the reality of Ireland 2013.


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## ryaner (31 Jan 2013)

I wouldn't take the last few months as an indication of what is likely to happen over the next few months. Things got very strange towards the end of last year with MIR. Estate agents got a bit crazy too with everything. 

To give an example, one of the houses I had bid is still up now. I was the only bidder for the 4 months my bid was in. Agent said as much. After I eventually pulled my bid to try get something happened, agent reacted by withdrawing the property then relisting it at a higher price. Sometimes you do wonder.

As for your own house, get a friend to arrange a viewing with the agent and give you feedback. There are miles of difference between good agents and bad agents. Worst I've had was an agent who didn't even saw hello, just opened the door and stood around. In those cases you don't even think the house is for sale.

Also ask a friend to view the ad and see if they think the pictures represent the house correctly. Believe it or not a good set of pictures can cause the house to appear much bigger than it actually is, especially true on terrace houses. More than one house I've walked out of before even seeing all of downstairs due to how different the house was compared to the ad. 
Record does go to the agent who described the beautifully well kept front garden that was actually a concrete slab 

As for feedback to the agent, this comes back to how good and friendly an agent is. A good agent will usually know the right type of questions to ask to figure out how serious a buyer is. You are unlikely to hear most of the negative feedback unless it comes up more than once and is actually constructive. Hearing the house is too small or the walls too thin are not things you can actually change so I'd doubt the agent will bother you with them.


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## Bronte (31 Jan 2013)

ryaner said:


> Worst I've had was an agent who didn't even saw hello, just opened the door and stood around. QUOTE]
> 
> My second favourite type of auctioneer, only bettered by auctioneer's who give you the keys to go and see it yourself.


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## Knuttell (31 Jan 2013)

serotoninsid said:


> Just curious - but where is/was that exactly?



A small town in the back and beyonds of Longford.


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## Hans (31 Jan 2013)

The chances are your house is over valued for today market there are four houses up for sale in my area for a long time it is a very desirable area but the owners have not taken in the 50% drop in the market. A new house came on the market dropped the price to more realistic price and sale agreed on sign in matter of weeks there is no doubt that if you sell at the right price where ever you live it will sell but house sellers will have understand the market they are selling in or if it is that valuable to them hold on to it.


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## bugler (31 Jan 2013)

If the OP is/was getting viewers in then surely that's a sign that the price isn't a million miles off. However, lack of any follow up from any viewer is strange, and most likely means that having shown up and looked at the house there were disappointed.

You may wish to be honest with yourselves and take a hard look at how the house is presented. If the house is looking well (and maybe the opinion of a blunt friend or relative should be sought out) then at least you can rule that out. Personally I think many house hunters are very easily put off by poor decor or clutter, and are unable to make what are not great leaps in their own head to see the potential of a property. 

There is also a *chance *you have a bit of a lemon of an agent on your hands, who may be foiling any chance of further interest, either by not being pro-active or being inaccessible to potential buyers.


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## michaelm (31 Jan 2013)

Janev said:


> Out of let’s say 10 similar properties we are the 3rd cheapest asking price now.


If you want to sell you should be the cheapest of similar properties.  I would cut the price to the bone, but not less than my bottom line.  You should de-clutter and get rid of anything garish.  It took us a month to sell in early 2011, having spent a month getting the house ready and putting the house at a very keen price (easily cheapest of similar).  We spent about 3 hours getting the house ready before each viewing . . ultimately sold for 7% under asking, albeit after a sleepless night.


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## demoivre (31 Jan 2013)

Janev said:


> I am trying to sell a house in order to trade up. It is a 3 bed terrace, target market is first time buyers (as we were when we bought it).
> I am realistic and know that it’s a crazy time to be a seller… but not bad if you are a buyer and I’m both I suppose!
> It has been on the market for quite a while and I want to understand why my house is so unattractive.
> 
> Any comments very much appreciated!



How much would the house rent for and how much are you hoping  to sell it for?


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## Janev (31 Jan 2013)

Thanks all! All your different points of view are helping.
To answer a few questions house is in desirable suburb 20km from Dublin city centre.
I don't want to rent the house out if we move its clean break we are not landlord material!
My knee jerk reaction is that I want to cut the price buy my other half is the more cautious one and reminds me that we have cut the price twice and the first time was to the cheapest 3 bed on the market in the area and no joy. So bit scared to do it again for no gain.
Think will reevaluate decor - although it is a modern house - cream walls, wooden floor but might spend this weekend doing a bit or rearranging!


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## dereko1969 (31 Jan 2013)

20km from Dublin City Centre yet a desireable suburb? Is it Malahide? If you're that far out you're also competing not just with neighbouring houses but with areas nearer to the city centre, are you on the DART line? Have you checked prices nearer the city centre?

Have you identified the house that you want to buy? Or the price range or is that fully dependent on what you get for your own house - trading up house size wise does not necessarily mean price wise.

To be honest, if your other half isn't interested in cutting the price then s/he wants to stay where you currently are. If you cut it previously to lowest, why are you happy being 3rd lowest now? 

Maybe to assure potential viewers you need to ask your Estate Agent to put ONO in your ad, or more likely to me, change Estate Agent - if s/he thinks first time buyers think prices aren't negotiable then s/he is not doing their job in impressing on the buyers that the price is negotiable.


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## Knuttell (31 Jan 2013)

Janev said:


> My knee jerk reaction is that I want to cut the price buy my other half is the more cautious one and reminds me that we have cut the price twice and the first time was to the cheapest 3 bed on the market in the area and no joy. So bit scared to do it again for no gain.



You will end up probably chasing the market down further,always behind the price that others are selling at.I have seen properties that in 2007 were on at €640k and that eventually sold at €310k,these properties chased the market all the way down when others that were keenly priced at that time got the buyers.

Not a lot further to add really except maybe rethink your estate agent,are they working hard for you or are they doing the bare minimum because you are refusing to price to sell?


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## michaelm (31 Jan 2013)

Knuttell said:


> You will end up probably chasing the market down further . .


That's the danger alright.  You need to be ahead of the curve in that regard, otherwise you'll just need to be lucky to get a sale.  I think one needs to be aggressive to sell a house in any reasonable time-frame and likewise when one finds the house they want to buy.


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## demoivre (31 Jan 2013)

demoivre said:


> How much would the house rent for and how much are you hoping  to sell it for?





Janev said:


> I don't want to rent the house out if we move its clean break we are not landlord material!



I want to crunch some numbers for you which is why I need the figures !


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jan 2013)

cashier said:


> I thought debating on house prices was not allowed on AAM



Hi Cashier 

The ban applies only to speculation about the future direction of house prices. 

Pricing your house so that it will sell is a valid topic. But  a post suggesting "Cut the price by 20% because it will be 40% cheaper in a year's time" would not be allowed.


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## Guns N Roses (31 Jan 2013)

bugler said:


> If the OP is/was getting viewers in then surely that's a sign that the price isn't a million miles off. However, lack of any follow up from any viewer is strange, and most likely means that having shown up and looked at the house there were disappointed.
> 
> You may wish to be honest with yourselves and take a hard look at how the house is presented. If the house is looking well (and maybe the opinion of a blunt friend or relative should be sought out) then at least you can rule that out. Personally I think many house hunters are very easily put off by poor decor or clutter, and are unable to make what are not great leaps in their own head to see the potential of a property.
> 
> There is also a *chance *you have a bit of a lemon of an agent on your hands, who may be foiling any chance of further interest, either by not being pro-active or being inaccessible to potential buyers.



I would be inclining to agreed with this opinion. As the Op stated they are getting plenty of first time viewing but no follow ups suggests that prospective buyers are happy with the price but are coming away disappointed. Have another look at the decor. There are many tactics you can use to present your property at its best such as 
- having fresh bread cooking in the oven when they arrive
- having fresh flowers tastefully arranged around the property
- having the property well lit when they arrive
- make sure the house is spotless when they arrive.
- make sure that all the walls are clean and newly painted in neutral colours

Remember that you're trying to sell the "dream" of them living in your property.

Invite over some close friends to give you "honest advice" about your property.

The only alternative is to reduce the price.


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## oldnick (31 Jan 2013)

A ban on discussing house prices is a bit of an obstacle on discussing OP's problem.

However, I don't think i'm going against the ban when I repeat the many claims that anyone selling a family home in most Dublin suburbs has  -based on the last twelve months - little reason to panic. 

I'm uncertain if 20 kms would qualify as a Dublin suburb.

It seems distance from the capital means a lot. Like twofor1 I can't sell a small apt in Louth even though it's 45 mins from Dublin Airport, an hour on regular services to Connelly.


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## dont1know (31 Jan 2013)

10 house in the area out of how many?

That's a lot of houses to me in one single area to be able to compare like with like.  In most areas at the moment there is a lack of good available housing stock.

Remember a lot of people have a house on the market but there not really trying to sell it, some people then take this is to be the market value of the property.

A lot of house in my area that sold recently drop the price and then people were interest and it usually sold for the new adjusted price or slightly more.

Why not link the house to here and get a better idea from other people's view point.

But if the house is not sold, your asking for to much.


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## Macstuff (31 Jan 2013)

To OP - I'm surprised by your statement that you are getting viewings but no second viewings or offers. Viewings indicates that the price is in or around right. No second viewings or offers means that when people come they are not impressed by what they see. Why not post a link to the property here and ask people for honest feedback? If you don't wish to do that get some friends to call over and tell you a few home truths. 
Good luck with it.


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## Elginelf (31 Jan 2013)

I think you should make sure your EA is doing his job to the full extent possible.  I was in the unusual position of contemplating buying the home of a friend of a friend but the vendor didn't know the connection.  I viewed the house twice and was hours away from making an offer of 10% below the asking price when the vendor dropped the price to rock bottom on the advice of the EA.  This was to encourage a bidding war which never happened.  They refused an offer of the new asking price!  They subsequently ended up taking the house off the market because offers only climbed (slowly) to about 20% below asking.  I know that bad advice lack of action on behalf of the EA by not following up with me after the second viewing cost them the sale of the house at at least 10% off asking price and probably a little more, if I'd had to stretch to that.  They've since completed a dark, badly planned extension to the house because they didn't think they could trade up.  Incidently the EA concerned didn't look for a fee up front, just payment on sale of the house and in viewing a lot of houses around the time with the same company I found them disorganised, badly informed about the properties and generally they just didn't inspire confidence. I've never been in a position to sell a house but if I did, I'd choose my EA very carefully and I'd check up on every move they made!!!


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## sadie (2 Feb 2013)

If it's not the price it's the house. Get some storage space either in a rented storage depot or a friend or neighbour's attic. Get rid of nearly everything you don't need. Reduce furniture to the bare minimum. If your house looks like you have outgrown it no one else will want it. Or face the fact that for every viewing you have to store 95% of toys in the attic or put them in your car. Always always have flowers in the kitchen or hallway. Get all those magnets and kids stuff off the fridge. If you have kids bedrooms buy some cheap bedspreads and make the rooms over each time to look more grown up. Get a large plastic tub and for each viewing put all the bathroom clutter into the plastic tub and hide it away.  Wash the kitchen floor etc. You want people to think like they could move in tomorrow and have room for their stuff.
Space and light is what people want. First time buyers won't have money to do a place up so like for 300 euros you could probably paint the hall, stairs and sitting room. When I was selling our last house, it took 2hrs before every viewing to make the place look good. The day I sold the house I'd happened to make chocolate buns that were sitting on the counter. So buy some cheap cookie mixes and make them at each viewing and put them out on the counter.


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## Black Sheep (2 Feb 2013)

How about getting a couple of friends to view some of the other 10 properties that are for sale in the area and do some honest comparisons with yours. You may learn something about their presentations and estate agents.

A home has a certain feel about it (you either get in in 30 seconds or not at all) and that of course is different things to different people. Ask your friends how comfortable they felt with the houses they view and their rating of the EA.


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## dubgem (6 Feb 2013)

I agree that if you're getting first-time viewers but nobody is coming back then it is something in the house that is putting them off.

First time buyers now don't have an extra penny after buying a property, so it's extra important that a place be in walk-in condition.  That means the dodgy toilet handle, the front door that sticks, the kitchen drawer that falls apart when you open it, etc. are all things you might be able to live with but a buyer will run a mile from.

Two places I think money could be worth spending is 

(1) a new kitchen. You can put in a decent Ikea one for a couple of thousand, less than your potential price reduction anyway.  All modern kitchens now have deep drawers in the base units, if yours doesn't it may be dating it more than you think. 

(2) Please don't take offence, but it could be worth getting in a professional cleaner.  Again, something that you are so used to living with that it becomes invisible could be all too visible to a potential buyer.

And I totally agree that de-cluttering is essential.  Not only is it offputting but it makes it look like you don't have enough storage.  Also make sure there is no junk lying around your garden (front or back).

I agree that a tactless friend/relative could be a great, if bracing, advisor.


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## Black Sheep (6 Feb 2013)

Phil Spencer is doing a series of programmes on Channel 4 (more 4) at present, afternoons. He is trying to help sellers get their houses that are languishing on the market moved on. 
Perhaps it's worth a look and if you believe all you see on TV he appears to be making progress


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## ryaner (8 Feb 2013)

dubgem said:


> Two places I think money could be worth spending is
> 
> (1) a new kitchen. You can put in a decent Ikea one for a couple of thousand, less than your potential price reduction anyway.  All modern kitchens now have deep drawers in the base units, if yours doesn't it may be dating it more than you think.



As a buyer I know I'd much prefer a few k off the price than a new kitchen that is done to someone elses tastes. Or worse still, only half done.


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## dubgem (8 Feb 2013)

ryaner said:


> As a buyer I know I'd much prefer a few k off the price than a new kitchen that is done to someone elses tastes. Or worse still, only half done.



Whatever the price, that is the only amount the purchaser will be able to get a mortgage for.  These days they will not be able to borrow an amount that includes "doing up" money.  So whereas in theory most people would prefer to pay less for the house and pick their own kitchen, in practice they will be stuck with whatever kitchen comes with the house - whether it is dilapidated or new - and this may well be a factor in their decision to buy.


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