# Inheritance disappearing



## LARD1 (6 Jan 2016)

Hi Folks ,
A brief outline of my dilemma . My father died several years ago and one of my brother lives in family home with my mother .My mother has Alzheimer's but she is manageable and doesn't wander off or anything ...just her memory not great . 

My brother gets carers allowance ,he is single and has great patience with my mother and does a great job minding her etc .When my father died he left the house and about 100,00 euro.  My mother gets about 420.00 p/w in pensions and this covers all the  bills . All good so far! 

So here's the thing.   Another brother calls over usually once a week ,is very well paid as is his wife. I mean probably taking home between them 1600.00 p/w. They are both professionals with four children. When my brother calls over he is always moaning about having no money, and that they cant afford this and that, holidays, new cars etc.  Now in fairness their cars are old, they dont smoke or don't go out for meals or weekends away etc.  Their kids though are dressed in the best of gear and always were ie ,Hollister superdry etc. Now when he calls as I have said he is moaning about having no money, petrol, food, clothes or whatever. 

The brother that lives with my mother feels sorry for him and maybe a bit intimadated, and has gotten into the habit of giving him my mother's debit card to go and get himself groceries while he is visiting. The rest of us  siblings have known about this, havent been too happy with it, but as my brother who gives him the card has said, mother would have done it for anyone of us if she was in her right mind .

Recently I found bank statments from my mother's account and it seems that my brother that's always moaning has been using the card not only to buy groceries (sometimes 300.00 euro or more is spent in Dunnes stores) but also  to pay for holidays, TVs, college fees for his kids and even burger king .   That 100 K that my father left is now down to 40K, mostly from the brother helping himself. 

My mother could live for many more years and if the money keeps depleting her inheritance will be gone and God forbid maybe the house will have to be sold .
So the dilemma is my mother and her children's inheritance is disappearing fast. 

My brother has helped himself to nearly 60K but as my mother is still alive he can say he was given it and  was not borrowed, so the money does  not  have to be paid back if mother dies from the proceeds of the her estate . This would leave the rest of us siblings with little inheritance while he has pocketed nearly 60k . My brother who is helping himself, and his wife, earns more than any of his sibling by a country mile and we can't understand how he can't survive on 1600.00 p/w while some of us and our partners are earning less than half of this . He has a mortgage of around 1300.00 p/m so should be well able to live on his income. So what can we do to recuperate money taken already and going forward. Any help appreciated .


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## emeralds (6 Jan 2016)

Have you spoken to him about it? And is the brother who gives him the debit card still doing that?


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## elcato (6 Jan 2016)

Have you discussed this with the brother who gives him the debit card ? Time you called a family meeting and laid all bare I'm afraid.


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## LARD1 (6 Jan 2016)

emeralds said:


> Have you spoken to him about it? And is the brother who gives him the debit card still doing that?



Brother still getting card from other brother .Not sure if card giver realises how much is been put on card but he has access to bank statements so should know .I am discussing situation with one of my other siblings at moment on how to handle situation . Its sure to cause family tensions but we have to do something pretty soon . We havent spoken to brother who is giving the card yet,but in the past it has been mentioned to him to stop letting other brother use card by some of the other siblings ,but only really in passing.


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## so-crates (6 Jan 2016)

Um frankly that doesn't sound at all good, it sounds closer to theft. Who is responsible for your mother's finances? I doubt you will be able to recuperate the money taken but you need to put a stop to it immediately.


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## moneybox (6 Jan 2016)

An truly awful situation, €60,000 gone.How long has this been going on with?


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## emeralds (6 Jan 2016)

I think you need to stop pussy footing around and arrange a meeting among all the siblings asap....How many siblings are there? If the worst comes to the worst and your mother needs full time nursing home care you may find that there is no money there to meet the bills..


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## PaddyW (6 Jan 2016)

As moneybox asked above, over how long has this €60,000 been taken?


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## mf1 (6 Jan 2016)

Take. The. Debit. Card. Away. 

Make other arrangements for the finances - two signatures? 

Consider if you need to make your mother a Ward of Court - there can be no unauthorised financial dealings on her account if that is done.  

And, yes, the brother has got used to this additional source of funding - sure, isn't it what his own mother would want him to have! He probably  has no concept of just how much money he has spent - it is a blind spot. A convenient blind spot.  

And you may take it that the money is gone, long gone. 

mf


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## vandriver (6 Jan 2016)

He can't live on €5,600 _after _his mortgage is paid.
Has he thought of using our money makeover forum?


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## Steven Barrett (7 Jan 2016)

Elder financial abuse it quite common. A selfish child taking a parents life savings with the attitude of "sure I'm going to get it as inheritance anyway". 

It's going to cause hassle with your brother but it's his fault not yours. He has to be told that he's after spending €60,000 over the last few years and that's the end of it, no more debit card. The rest of the money is for your mother and the additional care she may need. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## LARD1 (7 Jan 2016)

emeralds said:


> Have you spoken to him about it? And is the brother who gives him the debit card still doing that?


Yes,still giving the card .


PaddyW said:


> As moneybox asked above, over how long has this €60,000 been taken?


Over 4 or 5 years .


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## Odea (7 Jan 2016)

LARD1 said:


> Recently i found bank statments from my mothers account and it seems that my brother thats always moaning has been using the card not only to buy groceries (sometimes 300.00 euro or more is spent in Dunnes stores) but also to pay for holidays, TVs, college fees for his kids and even burger king .



Would a bank statement show that a TV was purchased, a meal was had in a Burger King?  Is the narrative on the statement that detailed?

Call a family meeting. Have the statements to hand. Ask for an explanation.


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## PaddyW (7 Jan 2016)

So €60k over 4 to 5 years?

Just thinking out loud here myself, but would that not bring up tax issues for your brother as the amounts per year would be above the gift tax threshold


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## thedaddyman (7 Jan 2016)

Odea said:


> Would a bank statement show that a TV was purchased, a meal was had in a Burger King?  Is the narrative on the statement that detailed?
> 
> Call a family meeting. Have the statements to hand. Ask for an explanation.



it should give the name of the retailer or some indication as to where the card was used but not necessarily what it was used for.


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## Bronte (7 Jan 2016)

LARD1 said:


> Brother still getting card from other brother .Not sure if card giver realises how much is been put on card but he has access to bank statements so should know .I am discussing situation with one of my other siblings at moment on how to handle situation . Its sure to cause family tensions but we have to do something pretty soon . We havent spoken to brother who is giving the card yet,but in the past it has been mentioned to him to stop letting other brother use card by some of the other siblings ,but only really in passing.



The problem is not just the brother who gives the card, or the brother who takes the money it is the siblings that have done nothing about it too.  If you cannot get rid of the card I suggest you report it to the bank that your mother has Alzheimers and that her card is being abused.

This is going to cause war of course.  In addition if you want to keep the family toether you need to agree on what you are going to do in advance with the other siblings.  I suggest that you all forget about ever getting the money back, it's highly unlikely, but you can use it against the brother now to get things back on track.  I suggest you take a copy of the bank statements to back up your accusations, and make a second copy, when you show your evidence the 'steakling' brother might destroy them.

By the way, it's probably more than 60K.  Your mother has a weekly income and if she's not spending all of it then he's gotton that too.


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## elcato (7 Jan 2016)

One last point, are you sure that the money is purely being spent by the one brother ? It could be a case of combined withdrawels.


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## emeralds (7 Jan 2016)

That's a good point..how do you know that the brother who lives with your mother is not also taking advantage of having access to her funds all the time..


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## john luc (7 Jan 2016)

Have seen this before and the only advice to you is to speak to all siblings and have a family meeting. This is theft and you need to make this clear to all


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## moneybox (7 Jan 2016)

Theft and elder financial abuse, shocking story.


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## Andy836 (7 Jan 2016)

That's a horrible position to be in.
Like all things bad, only way to solve it is to bite the bullet and confront the spendy spendy brother. 
If none of your siblings are going to do it, it's incumbent on you to protect your mother in case she incurs any future expenses.
Best of luck dealing with it. But do so quickly.


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## noproblem (7 Jan 2016)

No one would deny that what's happening is anything other than greed and nasty, but I don't think one should call it theft if there's a family meeting.


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## so-crates (8 Jan 2016)

The money has been taken without consent - it is theft and it is elder abuse (even if someone didn't really consider themselves as abusing it doesn't mean they didn't) - a family meeting will not determine that. Accusing someone of theft to their face though is hardly likely to engender a positive response whether or not it is true. It will be next nigh impossible to be conciliatory but I assume the OP would prefer not to end up in an acrimonious dispute so diplomatic language might need to be deployed. The OP perhaps also resents the brother that has been using the debit card to fund his lifestyle as he has made specific reference to his brother's spending habits but a consideration may be that the offending brother may have another problem besides taking money out of his mother's purse. If his income ought to be sufficient for his lifestyle then it begs the question is why is doing this? Aside from his anger and embarrassment at being accused, he may also find himself in a difficult position financially as he has been relying on his mother's money to fund his family.


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## Bronte (8 Jan 2016)

so-crates said:


> . If his income ought to be sufficient for his lifestyle then it begs the question is why is doing this? .



I suspected a gambling problem perhaps.  Or a major mortgage problem but there was mention of holidays and expensive clothes so perhaps a lifestyle expectation.  I've seen cases where one spouse has certain 'expectations'.


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## Black Sheep (8 Jan 2016)

I'm beginning to wonder if there is more than one brother using this card. Could the (carer) brother be covering up some problem of his own


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## LARD1 (9 Jan 2016)

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the advice. After talking to my other siblings we decided that i would talk to brother that lives at home and that is in charge of finances . I confronted him about the dwindling funds from Mothers account and he was so relieved that it was all out in the open . He said the Brother taking the card kept asking to use it and he dident have the nerve to say no to him . We decided that I should take over managing the remaining funds including taking charge of paying bills (none of the bills ie utilities, were on D/D) and taking debit card from him. We also agreed that he gets a set amount of cash from the Mothers pension each week to pay for food,petrol and misc expenses . The balance left over from pension should well cover household bills and there should also be some savings . 
We havent spoken to  the brother taking the card and misusing funds yet ,but at least now he has no more access to this,and we are considering splitting balance of funds left (40K)between the rest of us siblings .As for the misused funds we will just have to take the hit on this . I know the Brother taking the funds is getting off lightly but we are a close family and all of our nieces and nephews pal around together so we will probably just let it lie and try and forget about it .Once again thanks for all the advice .


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## Odea (9 Jan 2016)

LARD1 said:


> just let it lie and try and forget about it



Isn't this always the way?  Those with their elevated sense of self entitlement get away with it. Their attitude is, possession is nine tenths of the law. What are you going to do about it, they say? Come get me if you dare.  They can be great actors when needs be but they never really change their spots.

Splitting the €40k between you suggests to me that the rest of you are saying that he has had his money and now we want ours. So you are all grabbing what's left.

It's your mother's money! None of you seem to understand this.

*You* are not taking the hit for what your brother did, your mother is. The rest of you seem jealous about the money your brother has taken from under your noses.

By your weak brother passing on the card to you he is just repeating what he has done before. He is now passing on the card to the next in line.

You brother should be asked to explain himself. He should also be asked to start paying back the funds he has taken.


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## noproblem (9 Jan 2016)

No harm if I assume something in all of this? When your father died, did he leave his estate to his wife, ie, your mother? If so, none of you should be helping yourselves to anything and I'm beginning to think that the person left at home doing all the work is being taken advantage of by all of you. In some ways he comes across as being a tad innocent. Apart from him, the lot of you seem to be helping yourselves and if it's your mothers money/funds,  none of you should be doing this. If I was the son at home I would go to a solicitor and get good advice, I suggest you who now has the money book tell him this and try and get the "right" and "proper" plan in place, especially for your mother and your brother who is caring for her  and her house.


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## so-crates (9 Jan 2016)

OP ... STOP. 
I have to agree with the other posters. I was a little disturbed by your chosen heading "Inheritance disappearing" - you seemed to be implying you have an entitlement to the money. I gave you the benefit of the doubt though and figured you were talking about the only inheritance that has actually occurred, i.e. Your faher to your mother. From your post above - it seems I was wrong. Let's be perfectly clear about this. You have no right to it. It is your mother's money, not family money, not your brother's money, not your money. It should be used for her benefit and her benefit only and preferably at her discretion only. She is perfectly entitled to whittle away the whole amount if she wishes, *she is under no obligation to save it for her children*. You cannot presume to inherit your "portion" of the 100k your father left her. If she chooses to leave a testament to her children then that is her decision but she is perfectly entitled to leave it to the cats and dogs - though any will at this point would probably be challenged on the grounds of her diminished capacity. If she dies intestate of course it will have to be divided among her family. *But that is only after her death*. Just as your brother was wrong to take her money and spend it on himself, you cannot split *her* money among yourselves and take it. It would be theft. Stop thinking about your putative inheritance and start looking long and hard at yourselves.


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## LARD1 (14 Jan 2016)

Hi again,
Yes the posters that asked whose inheritance is it are right .It was left to my Mother . It is not our money to spend ,so we have decided not to touch the remaining funds, and as has been pointed out its not ours to touch .We got a bit carried away when we realised how much had been taken and the red mist descended . Once again thanks for all the advice.


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