# Credit card was stolen and pin was accessed. Ever experienced this?



## Sunster (14 Sep 2008)

I had the misfortune of having my credit card stolen on holiday and had large sums of money taken out. The card was of course cancelled as soon as I realised what had happened. I was still shocked to find that money was taken using this card and even more so when the bank told me that my PIN was used to access the money. I assured the bank that the card was not used during the holiday and so the card could not have been skimmed or have had anyone look over my shoulder. I also have no details of the PIN printed on the card. However I am liable to the theft as the PIN was used according to the banks. Obviously I'm not too happy with this (am considering changing banks).

Has anyone else ever heard of similar tales or experienced this?
The bank told me to write to the Financial services Ombudsman if I want to complain. Is this worthwhile?

Thanks


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## z103 (14 Sep 2008)

Was anything else stolen? - (Like passports or something that might have had dates of birth etc on them)
Was your pin random?


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## Sue Ellen (14 Sep 2008)

You have nothing to lose in contact the Ombudsman.

If you cancelled the card were the transactions done after the cancellation or before?  If after the bank are liable.


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## Sunster (14 Sep 2008)

Other things were stolen but of little value in comparison. 
Transactions were made in the interim between the cards being stolen and me cancelling them


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## bacchus (15 Sep 2008)

Sunster said:


> However I am liable to the theft as the PIN was used according to the banks.


 
A lot of PIN cards (edit: actually may be all) can be used without the pin. So, can you ask the bank to prove that the PIN was used?

For instance, Ulster Bank PIN card can not be read in many shops. So they simply swipe it the old fashion way and ask you to sign.. no PIN to be entered, no checks.


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## ALPHONSUS (20 Nov 2008)

thank you for your blog,

same thing happened to me very recently, bank told me it was my fault too!

still in contact ombudsman but no satisfaction. how has your s turned out ?



Alphonsus K


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## Sunster (21 Nov 2008)

No word. Banks adamant that its clear in the terms and conditions of the credit card....personally doubt anything will happen. How much did you get stolen?


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## Dee101 (21 Nov 2008)

bacchus said:


> A lot of PIN cards (edit: actually may be all) can be used without the pin. So, can you ask the bank to prove that the PIN was used?


 
That's true, happened to me with a laser card recently, I have a post on here about it.

Though if the money taken out of an ATM, they definitely would need the PIN for this - never seen an ATM where you can get money out without it!. How did they manage to get the money out? Are you are adamant that you did not have your PIN written anywhere and there is no way the thieves would have been able to get it from you. If so, I would contact the ombudsman - you deserve a proper explanation to the bank. In my opinion, they are too fond of shirking their responsibility with things like this!.


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## Mpsox (24 Nov 2008)

Firstly, I'd ask the bank for proof that the PIN was used

Secondly, what was you PIN? I know people who have idiot PINS like 9999 or 0000 or their date of birth. Was anything else stolen with for example you DOB on it?


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## Flax (24 Nov 2008)

Yeah, is your pin something stupid? You know 1234, 4321, 2580, or your date of birth?

I would be on the side of the bank on this one.


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## Mauri (24 Nov 2008)

Anyone had this experience, if so explanation welcome. Had to visit my oncologist today, (yearly check). Gave my Mastercard to his secretary to settle my account. She placed it in the machine thingy and then asked me to enter my pin. When I turned around and before entering pin the machine was printing out the correct transaction. No pin no signature. I guess I should contact CC company tomorrow, hopefully they may have an explanation. Perhaps gremlins in the technology.


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## aircobra19 (24 Nov 2008)

Its about as secure as a paper bag. the pin number is really only there so they shift the blame on the customer. Because you can still sign in many places.


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## lebide (17 Feb 2009)

Agree with aircobra19. PIN cards (credit or debit) can be used without PIN. 

With the introduction of Chip and pin the banks successfully managed to introduce clauses to transfer the responsibility to the customer if the PIN was used with the card (previously the banks were liable for any fraud).
In many cases of fraud now, the banks say that the PIN was used, so that the customer will be liable, not the bank.  In reality, the card was used without the PIN, but it is nigh on impossible to force the bank to produce evidence that the PIN was used.

The key to your case is getting the bank to produce hard evidence that the PIN was used - if they don't produce it, you should not be held liable.


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## dereko1969 (17 Feb 2009)

Sunster said:


> *Transactions were made in the interim between the cards being stolen and me cancelling them*


 
just take a step back and look at this from the outside - the only transactions were made before the card was cancelled, can you not see how this would look to any bank? how many days/hours between the two events?


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## AlbacoreA (19 Feb 2009)

dereko1969 said:


> just take a step back and look at this from the outside - the only transactions were made before the card was cancelled, can you not see how this would look to any bank? how many days/hours between the two events?


 
Would that not be common with stolen cards?


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