# Extension and renovation costs



## Browneyedgirl4 (17 Mar 2022)

In this climate is 150k a reasonable estimate for a 30sq m Kitchen/dining extension/new kitchen replumb/rewire/dry lining/New wooden flooring/new heat pump system to bring the rest of the house to a B3 rating.?   Is it preferable to wait a year or two until prices stabilise. ?  What if you start a project prices escalate and you have to increase your budget considerably...


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## Pinoy adventure (17 Mar 2022)

Prices could be higher in a year or 2.
Go for it now with whatever budget you have in mind.


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## Introuble83 (17 Mar 2022)

Does it include all appliances ? Seems expensive but depends on the finish


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## Browneyedgirl4 (17 Mar 2022)

I was actually quoted 200k not including appliances .....crazy at the moment to think that it Would cost that much ...if no one can afford   to pay those prices  then  people will wait it out until there is a recession and  I think I’ll join them...


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## Introuble83 (17 Mar 2022)

Browneyedgirl4 said:


> I was actually quoted 200k not including appliances .....crazy at the moment to think that it Would cost that much ...if no one can afford   to pay those prices  then  people will wait it out until there is a recession and  I think I’ll join them...


Cheaper to move to a larger house probably


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## Browneyedgirl4 (17 Mar 2022)

Agree


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## Truffade (20 Mar 2022)

Introuble83 said:


> Cheaper to move to a larger house probably


I've come to this conclusion myself. The market is so dislocated that (a) getting a builder and (b) paying less than the cost of actually building a house seems close to impossible.
Just quoted 306k for a 38 sq/m extension plus a deep retrofit of a 140 sq/m house. Ex VAT! Insane.

I'm now perversely incentivized to leave the country or else hope for economic collapse.


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## Introuble83 (21 Mar 2022)

Truffade said:


> I've come to this conclusion myself. The market is so dislocated that (a) getting a builder and (b) paying less than the cost of actually building a house seems close to impossible.
> Just quoted 306k for a 38 sq/m extension plus a deep retrofit of a 140 sq/m house. Ex VAT! Insane.
> 
> I'm now perversely incentivized to leave the country or else hope for economic collapse.


Crazy stuff altogether


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## Monbretia (21 Mar 2022)

So glad I did the extension I had wanted for years late 2020 into early 2021, was held up with early 2021 lockdown but finished now.  Now it wasn't big, extra 5x2 metres, basically back wall of kitchen gone and pushed out to open up room, 2 velux, 1 ordinary window and one floor length angled window looking out at my garden that I love!  Building cost 22k, new kitchen for full new room which is now 5mx5m, 10k which was 7k for kitchen, 1600 flooring and appliances made up balance.  I did the new island myself from rejigging old penninsula unit and making a second leg for it, countertop cost 1200 for that but rest was only a few hundred on mdf and paint.

With the way things have gone I think I got great value and it has made a huge difference to the house, I have sympathy for anyone trying to find a builder/tradesman/funds these days to finance the cost of building!


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## DublinHead54 (21 Mar 2022)

306k for extension and deep retrofit of a 178sqm comes in at 1.7k per sqm. Do you happen to have a quote for just the extensions and not the additional works on enhancing the current house?

I am currently getting initial quotes for converting a garage a small extension on the kitchen (~10sqm) and what I am noticing is that retrofit works really increase the cost. External Wrap, new windows, doors, insulation, concrete floor, heating systems can quickly rise to 100k. 

I am trying to set a budget for the basics of the construction and getting to a builders finish, which I hope will come in at 100k and then will flex on finishes. This is where the variation can come in for example, laminate could be 3k supplied and fitted, versus 10-15k for wood. 

I am also expecting that 10-13% to be on professional fees (QS / Architect etc). 

I think for most people now, we need to look at splitting the work into stages.


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## Truffade (21 Mar 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> 306k for extension and deep retrofit of a 178sqm comes in at 1.7k per sqm. Do you happen to have a quote for just the extensions and not the additional works on enhancing the current house?


he didn't specify although I can make some uneducated guesses. Here's the high-level breakdown, ex-VAT:

DescriptionSub TotalPRELIMINARY17,720DEMOLITION AND ALTERATIONS19,677EXCAVATION AND EARTHWORKS4,555FOUNDATIONS20,914EXTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,664INTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,256STAIR STRUCTURE515ROOF STRUCTURE12,325STRUCTURAL FRAME3,351EXTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS30,074INTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS9,029ROOF COMPLETIONS9,400EXTERNAL WALL FINISHES8,233INTERNAL WALL FINISHES24,314FLOOR FINISHES10,122CEILING FINISHES11,352ROOF FINISHES12,787DECORATIONS8,535MECHANICAL29,130ELECTRICAL22,423FITTINGS, FURNITURE & EQUIPMENT26,480EXTERIOR WORKS13,948



Dublinbay12 said:


> I think for most people now, we need to look at splitting the work into stages.


You still run into the same problems though - cost, availability of professionals etc. And you can quite easily mess up the sequence that the work should logically be done in, as we don't tend to think logically about our own homes.
I am actually trying to use the info we've got (and I expect these prices to be confirmed by a second builder) to frame a list of possible options e.g.

do nothing (and hope the market auto-corrects over time, this probably means a crash )
sell and move to a house that is 'finished' (hard to find, very expensive)
do a few things bit by bit


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## DublinHead54 (21 Mar 2022)

Truffade said:


> he didn't specify although I can make some uneducated guesses. Here's the high-level breakdown, ex-VAT:
> 
> DescriptionSub TotalPRELIMINARY17,720DEMOLITION AND ALTERATIONS19,677EXCAVATION AND EARTHWORKS4,555FOUNDATIONS20,914EXTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,664INTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,256STAIR STRUCTURE515ROOF STRUCTURE12,325STRUCTURAL FRAME3,351EXTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS30,074INTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS9,029ROOF COMPLETIONS9,400EXTERNAL WALL FINISHES8,233INTERNAL WALL FINISHES24,314FLOOR FINISHES10,122CEILING FINISHES11,352ROOF FINISHES12,787DECORATIONS8,535MECHANICAL29,130ELECTRICAL22,423FITTINGS, FURNITURE & EQUIPMENT26,480EXTERIOR WORKS13,948
> 
> ...



That is incredibly helpful so thank you! I have certainly noticed that houses that are 'finished' are going for a premium at the minute and although are 'finished' won't be exactly to the purchasers requirement. 

I noticed you don't have architects / QS costings in that, are you working with one? Are you massively changing the layout of the existing house? I did recently see some example of architects reviewing plans and suggesting alterations to reduce costs but deliver the same benefit. 

I think the price will correct to an extent without a crash as the global supply chain gets back on track, but probably not substantially enough to offset the increase of labour costs that will continue to rise.


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## TrundleAlong (21 Mar 2022)

Looking at an episode of Escape to the Country on BBC last week.  A couple were quoted around £350k to have a fine house built in Wales. Site was about £150k extra on top of that.  Prices are crazy here.


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## Truffade (21 Mar 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> That is incredibly helpful so thank you! I have certainly noticed that houses that are 'finished' are going for a premium at the minute and although are 'finished' won't be exactly to the purchasers requirement.



For me I think it's key i.e. the question of how much that premium is.

My gut feel is that in my area (nice part of Dublin, coastal) it's about 200k.
I could sell my house for 800k and looking at the property register, I could buy a similar house that's 'finished' for about 950k/1000k. Which sounds mad on the face of it but would actually save me a lot of money and heartache. I have ~70% equity and ~200k cash so would be very do-able, if I could find the right property...



Dublinbay12 said:


> I noticed you don't have architects / QS costings in that, are you working with one? Are you massively changing the layout of the existing house? I did recently see some example of architects reviewing plans and suggesting alterations to reduce costs but deliver the same benefit.


I have a full Bill of Quantities, as costed by the buildersQS, but wasn't going to post that in here. Those are just the sub-totals for each part of that BoQ.
The builder is working off detailed plans supplied by us, via an architect. The only professional we haven't had in yet is an engineer.



Dublinbay12 said:


> I think the price will correct to an extent without a crash as the global supply chain gets back on track, but probably not substantially enough to offset the increase of labour costs that will continue to rise.


Absent a wider economic crash, I agree. It's definitely a time to avoid the building market if you can.


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## DublinHead54 (21 Mar 2022)

Truffade said:


> For me I think it's key i.e. the question of how much that premium is.
> 
> My gut feel is that in my area (nice part of Dublin, coastal) it's about 200k.
> I could sell my house for 800k and looking at the property register, I could buy a similar house that's 'finished' for about 950k/1000k. Which sounds mad on the face of it but would actually save me a lot of money and heartache. I have ~70% equity and ~200k cash so would be very do-able, if I could find the right property...
> ...



You're a bit further along than me but we are in the similar areas with a similar property. My house might get 850k in current market and If I spent 200k I doubt I would get 1050k. There's definitely always a sunk cost and those finished houses are likely selling for less than the cost of works, but probably not by much in today's market. 

Out of interest, what were you expecting the tenders to come in at? I'm assuming you paid a couple k in architect fees and maybe needed planning permission. Sounds like you weren't expecting it to be this much?


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## Truffade (21 Mar 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> You're a bit further along than me but we are in the similar areas with a similar property. My house might get 850k in current market and If I spent 200k I doubt I would get 1050k. There's definitely always a sunk cost and those finished houses are likely selling for less than the cost of works, but probably not by much in today's market.


Yes, I think my 200k figure is reasonably accurate. I did test it out with the estate agent who lives a few doors up!


Dublinbay12 said:


> Out of interest, what were you expecting the tenders to come in at? I'm assuming you paid a couple k in architect fees and maybe needed planning permission. Sounds like you weren't expecting it to be this much?


Yes, paid a few k to our architect and also 1k to an energy consultant.
I was expecting 250-275k. I did ask someone knowledgable to run the numbers for me and that's what they came up with.


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## sharkattack (21 Mar 2022)

With prices like these becoming the norm you would have to wonder are we in for a big bang in construction.  People just can't afford to build or extend now.


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## DublinHead54 (21 Mar 2022)

Truffade said:


> Yes, I think my 200k figure is reasonably accurate. I did test it out with the estate agent who lives a few doors up!
> 
> Yes, paid a few k to our architect and also 1k to an energy consultant.
> I was expecting 250-275k. I did ask someone knowledgable to run the numbers for me and that's what they came up with.



I guess it just comes down to is the extra 30-50k above your expectations worth it Vs the hassle of moving! I like me neighbours and the house so I'm leaning towards paying the extra.

My view generally is that everybody wants to extend and do energy upgrades. The people who buy your house or mine will want to do the same and due to the cost they may seek a discount on the asking! 

I hope it works out for you.


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## Browneyedgirl4 (22 Mar 2022)

What about those ‘wonderful‘ seai grants  which should  in reality be worth 25k/30k when retrofitting but what’s to stop the builder increasing his quote and you don’t benefit from the grants then.....I know there is a one stop shop scheme but you have to use one of their contractors in addition to your own builder and them it gets messy when there’s an issue down  the Line......Government didn’t think it through and this is also fueling demand for retrofitting In a market with limited supplies/labour....


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## RetirementPlan (22 Mar 2022)

Browneyedgirl4 said:


> What about those ‘wonderful‘ seai grants  which should  in reality be worth 25k/30k when retrofitting but what’s to stop the builder increasing his quote and you don’t benefit from the grants then.....I know there is a one stop shop scheme but you have to use one of their contractors in addition to your own builder and them it gets messy when there’s an issue down  the Line......Government didn’t think it through and this is also fueling demand for retrofitting In a market with limited supplies/labour....


Do you think every builder in the country is increasing their quotes? And every builder in NI too?


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## Leo (22 Mar 2022)

Browneyedgirl4 said:


> I know there is a one stop shop scheme but you have to use one of their contractors in addition to your own builder and them it gets messy when there’s an issue down the Line


The One Stop Shop scheme is not designed to be used in conjunction with extension work. 

If your proposed extension/ renovation is large enough, you must ensure the entire finished house will achieve B2 or better regardless of availability or qualification for any grants.


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## Truffade (19 May 2022)

As an update: we just gave up on this. 

Instead we are doing:

2 new bathrooms - done as of today (28k, high spec)
Reconfigure downstairs layout to optimise space (underway)
New inset stove (next week)
Retrofit via SEAI registered firm - net cost will be about 70k (full external wrap, new windows throughout, doors, attic reinsulation, new heating systems\rads\heat pump etc). We have signed up but no dates yet.
New kitchen
Full rewire
So we don't get the additional space - but we do get the modernisation, retrofit and new home feel. I don't yet have the exact numbers for this but my current guestimate is about 145k, saving us 200k (and also not having to move out for several months).

The builder who quoted the 350k didn't even return my two calls to say 'thanks but no thanks', eventually just left him a message and never heard a word!


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## Savvy (3 Jun 2022)

Truffade, thanks for the information.

We are at an early stage of considering a deep retrofit on our 1930s style farmhouse. 
After reviewing the calculator on Energia it looked like €60k net would be very approximate figure we would need, so we started saving hard over the last two months.

I just happened to check the figures a few days ago and the calculator is now showing €90k net for the same activities.

Very disheartening to see the figures raise so high and has us thinking to do upgrades in a piecemeal fashion which is not how we wanted to do it.


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## Truffade (13 Jun 2022)

Savvy said:


> Truffade, thanks for the information.
> 
> We are at an early stage of considering a deep retrofit on our 1930s style farmhouse.
> After reviewing the calculator on Energia it looked like €60k net would be very approximate figure we would need, so we started saving hard over the last two months.
> ...



From chatting with the retrofit contractor, windows seem to be by far the most expensive part of the job and they are hard to source at the moment. We're going via Superhomes.

Looks like the retrofit will be the last part of the job in any case.
At this point:

Bathrooms - done
Inset stove - done
Downstairs reconfiguration - mostly done, just waiting on a few bits
Full rewire - last 2 weeks of July
Kitchen - 2nd week of August
Retrofit...who knows. Awaiting Superhomes,
Tidy up work...new internal doors, flooring etc
It's a slight pain dealing with different contractors (and living in somewhat of a building site) but we're getting there. 

We were quoted 13k (!) to paint the house internally which nearly made me fall off my chair. Doing it myself instead!


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## DublinHead54 (13 Jun 2022)

How much are you spending on kitchen?


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## Truffade (14 Jun 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> How much are you spending on kitchen?


Approx 23k, including appliances. 

We were going to spend 10-15k but the space is now bigger so we decided we would put more into it.


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## Truffade (12 Aug 2022)

Truffade said:


> From chatting with the retrofit contractor, windows seem to be by far the most expensive part of the job and they are hard to source at the moment. We're going via Superhomes.
> 
> Looks like the retrofit will be the last part of the job in any case.
> At this point:
> ...


 Latest update:

Bathrooms - done. 27k (upstairs only)
Inset stove - done. 3k
Downstairs reconfiguration, building work - close to done, main thing remaining is to fit new downstairs WC under stairs. Approx 17k
Full rewire - done. Seriously messy job and we were very wise to schedule for when we were on our holidays! 8.7k (our original guy who quoted 15k let us down and we found a new guy at short notice, worked out very well and we got lucky here)
Kitchen - done as of today! 25k including some fairly top-end appliances.
Retrofit...just picked windows\doors today. They say we may be looking at 12\14 weeks for the windows to arrive so I think we would be lucky to have this done pre-Xmas. Approved for our grants and net cost to us will be ~65k (depends what style windows we end up with)
Tidy up work...new internal doors, flooring etc. Will do post retrofit.
Progress! This incremental approach is OK if you're prepared to live in a semi-building site state for a few months - and you line up your tradespeople accordingly. The guy making it all come together for us is our builder who pops in on average 1 day a week. It's a not a 'building job' as such given that we are not altering the external footprint of the house but we've found him invaluable.


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## roundtheblock (14 Aug 2022)

Truffade said:


> Latest update:
> 
> Bathrooms - done. 27k (upstairs only)
> Inset stove - done. 3k
> ...


Hi Truffade. Fair play it sounds like you have carried out a great job project managing as much as possible. We are undertaking a very similar amount of work on a bungalow with a large attic and plan to arrange our own tradespeople and (hopefully!) manage to stay in the house during the refurb... I wonder would you be able to pm the details of the builder you are using? As he sounds like exactly what we are after.. No worries if not. Hope you get everything done in good time without any headaches.


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## Truffade (23 Aug 2022)

roundtheblock said:


> Hi Truffade. Fair play it sounds like you have carried out a great job project managing as much as possible. We are undertaking a very similar amount of work on a bungalow with a large attic and plan to arrange our own tradespeople and (hopefully!) manage to stay in the house during the refurb... I wonder would you be able to pm the details of the builder you are using? As he sounds like exactly what we are after.. No worries if not. Hope you get everything done in good time without any headaches.


Sorry, only saw this now.

He'll be finished with us this week but he did say he has more work than he can handle! As my sister was also looking for someone but he said to please not send on his details...sorry.


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## DeeKie (24 Aug 2022)

RetirementPlan said:


> Do you think every builder in the country is increasing their quotes? And every builder in NI too?


Yes


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## wheres me jumpa (23 Sep 2022)

Interesting reading here.

We want to improve energy efficiency in our house but also planning an extension.  Managed to get speaking to some companies on the energy side but all said come back when the extension is ready.  Which is fine but really struggling with the extension build - no response from companies or no follow up from companies after site visits.  

Any tips for engaging a company on the extension front? Any recommended companies serving Kilkenny area?


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