# Selfcatering.ie ceased trading this pm



## Delicious (19 Jul 2012)

Is anyone impacted by this. Got A mail this evening and have accommodation booked in August? Appreciate any information that is out there especially from owners renting via this operation. Separately we paid by credit card, are we covered as a result?


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Jul 2012)

Delicious said:


> Separately we paid by credit card, are we covered as a result?



Yes. The Credit Card company must refund you.


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## OGB (20 Jul 2012)

*Self catering ireland*

I got that email this evening too. My accommodation is booked for this Sat!!! So two days before our holiday they email to say they have ceased trading and are sorry for the inconvenience!!!! I ang the caretaker a our property in Kerry and she had no idea what I was talking about. She told me to ring another company in the mrnib and hey should be able to shed some light on the situation. Will keep you posted!!!!


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## Delicious (20 Jul 2012)

Thanks please do. I understand some of the owners in the Rosslare area are meeting today to discuss. A lot of them are obviously out of pocket also. Hopefully if owners and renters can be matched up some sort of solution can be arranged.


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## OGB (20 Jul 2012)

Was on to the company in limerick earlier. Was told no money was handed over so booking can't be honoured. They can offer us the property for a week for €299!!!!!! We have already paid €670!!!! This was our honeymoon with our three kiddies!!!!


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## Delicious (20 Jul 2012)

Sorry to hear that. I have heard similar amounts (300 pw) being mentioned for houses previously paid for in Wexford. We booked with credit card so hoping for a refund as a result. Will let you know if I hear anything as we are in touch with several people in the same situation.


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## jhegarty (20 Jul 2012)

OGB said:


> Was on to the company in limerick earlier. Was told no money was handed over so booking can't be honoured. They can offer us the property for a week for €299!!!!!! We have already paid €670!!!! This was our honeymoon with our three kiddies!!!!



if you paid by credit card then you get the €670 back.


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## ontour (20 Jul 2012)

OGB said:


> Yeah. One week. Now they want €298 if we are to go ahead with the booking!!!



so if you paid by credit card you will get the €670 back and now only pay €298.  €372 added to the party fund!!  They say that every cloud has a silver lining.**


**Assumes payment by credit card


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## shopkeeper (20 Jul 2012)

Had only one experence in dealing with that company - two years ago I booked a holiday home with them.  Initially booked on website but later had reason to contact them by telephone in an attempt to extend our booking.  Both their approach to customer care and their manners were appalling and I thankfully resolved not to deal with them again.  Sorry to hear that some customers   might lose out - hope it works out for them.


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## Knuttell (21 Jul 2012)

The Irish Times reporting on it today mentions that the company was insisting on cash transfers in the last few weeks citing "processing problems" with their credit card machine.

Make of that what you will.


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## Knuttell (21 Jul 2012)

> the booking site had demanded payment by PayPal,



If this is correct then all that has to be done is to raise a dispute with Paypal.

I have a Paypal account and have successfully disputed payments where goods were not as advertised or failed to arrive.


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## Crunchie (21 Jul 2012)

shopkeeper said:


> Had only one experence in dealing with that company - two years ago I booked a holiday home with them.  Initially booked on website but later had reason to contact them by telephone in an attempt to extend our booking.  Both their approach to customer care and their manners were appalling and I thankfully resolved not to deal with them again.  Sorry to hear that some customers   might lose out - hope it works out for them.



Just in the interest of balance - I've used them every year for the last 10 + years around the October mid term break and have always found the office staff and the caretakers in Grangewood, Rosslare to be fantastic to deal with. One year when I had to cancel at the last minute they allowed me rebook within 3 months at no cost (They offered - I expected to lose my money)

Having said that, I realise it's no consolation to those who've lost their holidays and to those office staff and caretakers who've lost their jobs as a result of the closure.


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## Brook (28 Jul 2012)

*Self Catering .ie Creditors' Meeting*

I'm still waiting on my credit card company to respond in relation to my refund. Do we have to wait until the liquidation is finalised ? That could take months!
Also, I received a letter yesterday in relation to the creditors' meeting. Does anyone know who I can appoint as a Proxy - I don't want to engage a solicitor. Also I received a General Proxy and a Special Proxy - not sure what the difference is?


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Aug 2012)

I have just seen this post now and it's a bit later now to appoint a proxy.

However, you can attend the meeting tomorrow. 

There will be about an hour or so of argument about the state of affairs of the company and how it got into financial difficulties.

As a creditor, you will be able to ask any question you like. It is important that people who stand to lose their deposits go down and make their feelings known. 

You could ask the directors the following questions: 
When did you first know that the company was  insolvent? 
Why did you have your staff phone customers asking them to make immediate payment  by way of bank transfer? 
Why did you stop taking credit card payments? 
Where did the money received as a result of these phone calls lodged? 
Was the company overdraft personally guaranteed and did you pay  it off with this money? 
What guarantees are outstanding? 

Will the new company be taking responsiblity for the deposits paid by the company in liquidation? 
How muich did the new company pay the old company for its website?

The directors will nominate a liquidator.
At the creditors' meeting, the creditors can approve this or nominate their own.
If you are not happy with the directors' nominee, you could vote for the other nominee, if there is one. 

Brendan


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## Brook (9 Aug 2012)

My Credit Card Company came good and refunded me the money.
Thanks


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Aug 2012)

I was  looking for a report of the creditors' meeting online and came across this very interesting article in [broken link removed]



> StubbsGazette understands that for a number of weeks preceding the  cessation of trading of the company, it had insisted on payment by  cheque or bank draft, refusing to accept credit cards. This is highly  significant as, under the rules pertaining to credit cards, in cases  where the cardholder does not receive the goods ordered, the amount will  be charged back to the merchant. It is the responsibility of the  merchant to ensure there are sufficient funds in the  designated bank  account to honour these chargebacks. If for any reason the merchant  cannot pay the chargeback, the liability falls on the merchant’s  sponsoring bank (known as the acquiring bank). While none of this  applies because the  merchant in this case ceased accepting credit cards  before the cessation, it does not take a person of unusually suspicious  mind to speculate on why such a merchant would insist on cash and  cheques as payment in such a distressed situation. Payment in cash and  cheques is immediately credited to the bank account in question. This is  highly relevant in a subsequent insolvency where, for example, personal  guarantees may have been given by the directors in respect of bank  loans and/or overdrafts. By insisting on cash payment, the directors  ensure maximum favourable impact on the bank balance, thus ultimately  diminishing any subsequent personal liability (but at the expense of  customers who would have preferred to pay by credit card). One should  also look at the role of the banks and the potential for their  preferential treatment at the expense of customers.


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## Bronte (14 Aug 2012)

Why would a company not agree to credit card payment, would it be because the credit card company had refused to allow it?

There is anarticle about this in the newspapers.  It appears there is another company in the same business, with the same registered adress, with the same directors.  

Ireland is an interesting place to do business.


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Aug 2012)

Not saying this is what happened, but one reason might be...

Directors have given bank personal guarantee for bank overdraft
Get in as much cash as possible before crash to pay off overdraft and reduce personal liability


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2012)

I got this report from a creditor's proxy who attened the meeting. 

*Meeting of the Creditors of*​ *Power Holiday Management Limited (trading as Self-Catering Ireland and selfcatering.ie)*​ *Held on 8 August 2012 at 12:00pm*​ *at Rhu Glenn Hotel, Sleiverue, Co. Kilkenny*​ 
  Tom Murran, of Peter O’Connor & Son Solicitors Waterford, opened the meeting and explained that Power Hotel Management Limited trading as Self-Catering Ireland and selfcatering.ie (“the Company”) was placed in liquidation at a meeting of its members held earlier that day and that David Breen of David Breen & Co Chartered Accountants, Waterford was provisionally appointed liquidator by the shareholders pending the meeting of creditors.

  Mr. Murran introduced Mary Power as a director of the Company and chairman of the meeting.

  Ms. Power read a statement outlining the history of the Company with the principal points being:

·         The Company commenced trade in May 1988 managing 9 holiday properties in Ireland.
·         Over the next three years the Company expanded to 700 hotels and 3,000 holiday homes. The Company stopped managing properties and concentrated on bookings.
·         In 2008 the Company achieved its peak turnover of €1.7m and invested heavily in its online operations.
·         During 2009 – 2011 the Company suffered declines in turnover and margin and in 2011the company made redundancies and returned a small profit of €25k.
·         Since 2011 credit terms were tightened by suppliers.
·         The directors personally invested in excess of €500k in the business and have personally guaranteed the Company’s bank loans.
·         Ms. Power apologised to creditors for the losses incurred.

  Ms. Power then asked the creditors for questions arising out of the statement of affairs which had been circulated. There were a number of questions out of which the following points arose:

·         Ms Power could not account for the reduction of debtors receivable by the Company from €154,728 in the last set of filed accounts (December 2010) to €7,335 as at 7 August 2012. It was put to Ms Power that as a director of the Company she had a duty to know what had happened to the largest asset of the Company. It was agreed that the liquidator would investigate where the proceeds received from debtors had gone and whether there remained any debtors outstanding.
·         Ms Power asserted that her best estimate of the value of the software and domain name of the business was €5,000. She acknowledged that the development costs of the software was in the order of €500,000. It was agreed that the liquidator would seek to maximise the value of this asset in open market sale.
·         Ms Power claimed that her new business Just Go Limited trading as justgo.ie (“Just Go”) had no relationship with the Company. She then clarified after questioning that Just Go loaned money to the Company to fund losses during 2011 and 2012. Ms Power also acknowledged after further questioning that some of the customer deposits received by bank transfer were received into Just Go’s bank account. Customers believed they were paying into the bank account of Power Holiday Management Limited trading as Self-Catering Ireland. Ms Power stated that any money’s received by Just Go were transferred to the Company. The point was made from the floor that customers that paid money to Just Go would be creditors of Just Go rather than of the Company and would be due a refund from Just Go. It was agreed that the liquidator would investigate all transactions between the Company and Just Go.
·         Ms Power claimed that Just Go did not benefit from the Company’s software development and had its own system. It was pointed out from the floor that Just Go did not report any software development costs in its accounts in contrast to the Company which reported software development costs in the region of €500k. It was agreed that the liquidator would investigate whether Just Go was using any of the software or intellectual property of the Company and that it if so Just Go would be charged market rates for such usage.
·         Ms Power acknowledged that she received rent from the company for use of its premises and that Just Go operated from the same premises.
·         It was put to the chairman from the floor that Just Go appeared to be a classic phoenix operation and that this should be investigated fully be the liquidator.
·         It was pointed out from the floor that there appeared to be a pattern in the weeks leading up to the Company’s closure of customers being approached for accelerated payment and that payment would only be accepted in the form of cheque or credit transfer rather than credit card. Ms Power denied this but the overwhelming response from the floor was that individuals were called seeking payment by cheque or transfer in order to avoid losing their holiday booking. One creditor claimed to have paid 2 hours before the e mail was sent announcing the closure of the business. It was agreed that the liquidator would investigate for evidence of such practice. Some of the creditors present questioned whether such practice amounted to fraud.
·         It was put to the chairman that she knew or ought to have known that the company was insolvent for a number of years (questions were asked on accounts filed for 2008, 2009 and 2010 all of which showed liabilities in excess of assets) and yet she continued to trade, taking customer deposits. The chairman was asked why did she allow this to happen and replied that she believed she could continue to fund the business through personal and borrowed funds and that with hindsight she should have ceased trade two years earlier.
·         The chairman was asked why did she not place customer receipts in a ring-fenced bank account when she knew the business was insolvent. She replied that this had not occurred to her and that she thought that the Company could trade out of its difficulties.
·         A significant number of suppliers (owners of holiday homes/hotels) claimed that the creditor balances included in the statement of affairs were inaccurate and that they were owed materially more than the amounts included.
·         It was proposed and seconded that the meeting be adjourned to allow the directors prepare an accurate statement of affairs. It was pointed out from the floor that the errors were critically important as full quantification of the creditor balances could result in a position where the directors represented less than 50% of creditors. The motion was put to a vote and all creditors present voted in favour of an adjournment except for Ms Power. As Ms Power represented a majority of creditors per the statement of affairs presented to the meeting, the motion was defeated. Mr Murran pointed out that the majority of proxies returned had appointed the chairman to vote in their place. As Ms Power represented a majority of creditors in her own right these proxies were not quantified at the meeting.
·         It was put to Ms Power that the ‘right and decent thing to do’ was for her to abstain for the upcoming vote on the appointment of a liquidator. It was pointed out that the liquidator had a number of questions to investigate regarding her conduct as director of the company and that it would be appropriate for her to abstain from voting regarding the appointment of her nominated liquidator. Ms Power stated that she would vote on the issue as was her right.
·         A second motion was proposed and seconded that all creditors be treated fairly and properly compensated for their losses. The motion was put to a vote and all creditors present voted in favour of the motion except for Ms Power. As Ms Power represented a majority of creditors per the statement of affairs presented to the meeting, the motion was defeated.

  Mr Murran then reminded the meeting that David Breen had been appointed liquidator that morning at a meeting of the Company’s shareholders and asked whether there were any alternative nominations from the floor. It was proposed and seconded that Michael Butler a liquidator of over 25 years experience be appointed as liquidator. The motion was put to a vote. All creditors present voted in favour of Mr. Butler’s appointment except for Ms Power. As Ms Power represented a majority of creditors per the statement of affairs presented to the meeting, the motion was defeated.

  Mr Breen then addressed the meeting as liquidator and asked whether any creditors wished to form a Committee of Inspection. Five creditors joined the committee and the meeting was concluded.


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2012)

Recommendations from Michael Butler 


  1.       Never ever pay a bill due to a web based service by cheque, cash or bank transfer. There is some comfort when paying with a credit card and this is specifically why the representatives of this company refused to allow payment by credit card. Under the rules pertaining to credit cards, in cases where the cardholder does not receive the goods ordered, the amount will be charged back to the merchant. It is the responsibility of the merchant to ensure there are sufficient funds in the designated bank account to honour these chargebacks. If for any reason the merchant cannot pay the chargeback, the liability falls on the merchant’s sponsoring bank (known as the acquiring bank).


  2.       When dealing with a small Irish company, you should engage the credit check services of Stubbs Gazette before paying over a significant amount. The credit check will give the individual an insight into the financial strength of the company with which the consumer can use as an aid in their dealings.


  3.       It is rather a pity that the Companies Registration Office does not allow an individual free access to check a company’s last filed financials. 



_[Brendan Burgess comment: You can access the accounts free at cashiq.net]_


  4.       Where customers pay by PayPal, they may make a claim within 8 weeks of making the payment. If the company or in this case the Liquidator of the company do not challenge the claim, the customer will be refunded. No Liquidator should challenge a claim made where the customer did not receive their product, and in this case their holiday.


  5.       Where customers have paid by credit transfer, they should request confirmation from their bank as to which account their transfer was made to. If, for some reason, the transfer is made to an account other than the company’s account, that receiving account will be responsible for the refund to the customer rather than the account of the company in liquidation.


  6.       In similar circumstances, a customer paying by cheque should request a copy of the returned paid cheque from their bank to see where the cheque was lodged.


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