# Safe registration for a public services card.



## vandriver

My wife has just got an appointment letter for Safe registration for a Public Services Card.This involves a 40 minute meeting at a city centre social welfare office and producing  many different documents..
However,I can't for the life of me work out why she has been called for this,as she works full time,and is not in receipt of any sw payments.
Are there any repercussions if the letter is simply ignored?


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## grandyea

Do you have children that she receives Child Benefit for?   If so - well that's a payment from the DSP.  I wouldn't ignore it anyway and a simple phone call can sort out any confusion.


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## Black Sheep

Do not ignore this, and by the way if she has all her Papers and the required ID with her it only takes roughly 10 minutes.

Just because she is not claiming any benefits at present does not mean that she will never need them in the future. If she became ill, she may be applying for her illness benefit.

Every one nationwide will be called in for this eventually and issued with their new card


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## vandriver

I phoned the Safe department at the city centre sw office ,and they cancelled the appointment saying that they were concentrating on sw recipients at the moment.They couldn't explain why the appointment had been made.


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## moonman

Vandriver ,,I phoned the number at the top of the page and there is only a voice mail, letting callers know that the said phone number is only for appointments.  the number on mine was for amiens st  01, 8172640 Gandon  House.  What number did you ring as i want to ask them a couple of questions, my problem is similar to yours.


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## gipimann

There are 2 phone numbers for queries at the bottom of this webpage

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Public-Services-Card_holder.aspx

You can also submit an online enquiry using a link on the same page


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## vandriver

Sorry,my letter is in the bin.


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## moonman

thanks both Gipimann and Vandriver the info was great just what i need.


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## moonman

i have just got through to the phone number i quoted for the dublin region regarding the New Public Services Card,  8172640. the lady i spoke to said, that if anyone was born in the republic of ireland and they  DIDN'T have their long birth cert  that was no problem as they had the facility to look it up. when i told her it would be difficult for me to get over across the other side of dublin for 9-15 she informed me that i could call in anytime including lunchtime. she also told me that gandon house was straight across the road from connolly station.


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## SlurrySlump

Got my letter about this today. It says I have to bring my passport and my full birth certificate (showing my mother's birth surname). My passport has all my current I.D. on it so why would I need to bring my full birth cert unless this is some sort of Big Brother plan to collect other information?  
Also if I have a passport why do I need a SAFE card. (I am not eligible for free travel). My passport has been fine up to this.
When I am eligible for free travel will I have to go through all the hassle again to have this card updated?


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## Berni

SlurrySlump said:


> It says I have to bring my passport and my full birth certificate (showing my mother's birth surname). My passport has all my current I.D. on it so why would I need to bring my full birth cert unless this is some sort of Big Brother plan to collect other information?



Your passport only has your name and date of birth. 
Those aren't enough to uniquely identify you so they need additional data points, usually the mother's maiden name.


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## SoylentGreen

I would imagine that they have everything else on file about you except your photo and I am not sure why they need this?


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## Berni

They do have it on file, the issue is in making sure that they match the correct details to the person getting the card.


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## SoylentGreen

Berni said:


> Your passport only has your name and date of birth.
> Those aren't enough to uniquely identify you so they need additional data points, usually the mother's maiden name.



.......and photograph. You can travel the world with a passport. Why would the Social Services need your mother's name so you can collect a social welfare payment or get a bus pass? Your current passport should be sufficient.


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## Berni

So say you have a common name, such as Sean Murphy.
Your passport shows that yes, that is your name, and your dob is 1/1/1960

So they look that up on the system and find 3 such people.
How do they confirm which is your record?


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## IsleOfMan

Berni said:


> So say you have a common name, such as Sean Murphy.
> Your passport shows that yes, that is your name, and your dob is 1/1/1960
> 
> So they look that up on the system and find 3 such people.
> How do they confirm which is your record?



But when you call to collect your card you are asked to bring the letter that they sent you. You are asked to bring a current utility bill with your address on it. You are asked to bring your passport. You are asked to bring your current Social Services Card and or Free Travel Pass. Is this not enough identification?

Why do they need your full birth certificate with your mother's name on it plus other personal details.


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## IsleOfMan

Berni said:


> Your passport only has your name and date of birth.
> Those aren't enough to uniquely identify you so they need additional data points, usually the mother's maiden name.



How will your mother's name identify you when you go to collect your New Public Services Card.


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## IsleOfMan

SlurrySlump said:


> When I am eligible for free travel will I have to go through all the hassle again to have this card updated?



I am in the same boat. I am not eligible for free travel pass yet but I am being asked to call and collect this card. I don't want or need this card. However it appears that it is compulsory. (It says on the letter that if you don't collect this card you may have your social welfare payments suspended).

I will have to retire at 65 from my job. I cannot get my State Pension until 66. So I will have one year in limbo on Social/Jobseekers whatever...Am I being forced to get this card or I won't have this payment made?

Also when I reach Free Travel time will I have to call again to have my card renewed...


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## Gerry Canning

IsleOfMan said:


> I am in the same boat. I am not eligible for free travel pass yet but I am being asked to call and collect this card. I don't want or need this card. However it appears that it is compulsory. (It says on the letter that if you don't collect this card you may have your social welfare payments suspended).
> 
> I will have to retire at 65 from my job. I cannot get my State Pension until 66. So I will have one year in limbo on Social/Jobseekers whatever...Am I being forced to get this card or I won't have this payment made?
> 
> Also when I reach Free Travel time will I have to call again to have my card renewed...


........
Could be wrong ;
But I think the new card is being ramped in to give better fraud prevention protection , means that by the time you get card you have cleared all the hurdles in claryfying who you are.It will be a small nuisance to set up but when done 
It means you now have  a One Card  effective system.
eg . it will have your photograph.On the older non-photo system you still needed a card to access payments.
Having had to get one of the new ones myself I could only look at it as a positive more up to date change. I understand Dept SW has in place all protocols in place to protect any potentially sensitive info.


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## Black Sheep

If you wear glasses you will be asked to remove them for the photo. As I have worn glasses since I was a very small child I probably would not be recognized by most people without them.

Also the name on the birth cert is the one you must sign.
Say the name on the birth cert is JOHN and you have always been known as SEAN and your signature is Sean Murphy. You now become John Murphy without the glasses even though your passport signature is Sean Murphy and photo wearing glasses.


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## gipimann

Isn't that the same procedure for passports?  Sean Murphy's passport would also identify him as John Murphy, and photos now have to be taken without glasses.

At least there's consistency in issuing identity documents, even if it appears unusual.


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## gipimann

IsleOfMan said:


> I am in the same boat. I am not eligible for free travel pass yet but I am being asked to call and collect this card. I don't want or need this card. However it appears that it is compulsory. (It says on the letter that if you don't collect this card you may have your social welfare payments suspended).
> 
> I will have to retire at 65 from my job. I cannot get my State Pension until 66. So I will have one year in limbo on Social/Jobseekers whatever...Am I being forced to get this card or I won't have this payment made?
> 
> Also when I reach Free Travel time will I have to call again to have my card renewed...



The cards are only valid for 7 years, so you may have to renew it anyway, free travel or not.


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## RainyDay

Black Sheep said:


> Also the name on the birth cert is the one you must sign.
> Say the name on the birth cert is JOHN and you have always been known as SEAN and your signature is Sean Murphy. You now become John Murphy without the glasses even though your passport signature is Sean Murphy and photo wearing glasses.





gipimann said:


> Isn't that the same procedure for passports?  Sean Murphy's passport would also identify him as John Murphy, and photos now have to be taken without glasses.
> 
> At least there's consistency in issuing identity documents, even if it appears unusual.



That's not the case for passports. My birth cert name is Paddy Mick Rainyday, but I've always been known as Mick Rainyday. On my last passport, I got them to put it as Mick Rainyday, and there is a note somewhere on the passport saying 'also known as Paddy Mick' or something like that.


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## Black Sheep

So I'm:- 

Sean Murphy with glasses on passport and
John Murphy without glasses on SAFE card.

Is it ok to have 2 different signatures


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## Bronco Lane

If I have to bring photographic ID to get the new card why can I not bring that same photographic ID to collect my SW payment or whatever?

This is just another way for the government to "tag" everyone. We had to give lots of information when we were forced to pay the Householder charge a few years back.

Now they want your birth certificate. Big Brother is building a big database on everyone.


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## Bronco Lane

Gerry Canning said:


> ........
> I understand Dept SW has in place all protocols in place to protect any potentially sensitive info.



Do you really believe this? If this information is hacked they the hackers will get the lot on you, including your mother's maiden name.


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## Gerry Canning

Bronco Lane said:


> Do you really believe this? If this information is hacked they the hackers will get the lot on you, including your mother's maiden name.


 ................

So ! Hackers find out my mothers maiden name was Mc Connell.
I am just not taken with this protective of information stuff.
From what I see , it has been the hiding of information that has resulted in Enquiries eg Child Abuse. Commissions eg Banks. 
It seems to me that protection of information helps vested interests more than Mr Citizen.

Maybe we should re-look at what safeguards we really need.
Locally (and I presume elsewhere ) we end up in whispering type campaigns where people say they know of wrongdoing but daren,t say.

It is a big issue and I don,t pretend to know the best route?


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## Laramie

Gerry Canning said:


> ................
> 
> So ! Hackers find out my mothers maiden name was Mc Connell.



So why does the Dept. of Social Welfare need this information unless they are building a data base on everyone.


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## Gerry Canning

Laramie; 

A hacker/chancher/double claimer, may well know my address ,DOB , bank details etc but very few people would now a mothers maiden name.
A very singular way of confirming ID.


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## Jim2007

Laramie said:


> So why does the Dept. of Social Welfare need this information unless they are building a data base on everyone.



In Ireland (and in the UK for that matter) we have a very basic problem when it comes to dealing with the population - we are unable to identify exactly who we are dealing with! So the only way they can differentiate between two people is to collect enough data points about a person to make them uniquely identifiable.

The driving force is of course to make sure they are dealing with the correct person and to ensure that the don't disclose your personal details to someone else of the same name and date of birth for instance.

In most countries in this problem is addressed by nation identity numbers and cards.  But for whatever reason there has been great resistance to such an idea across the entire British Isles and so we are left playing this game to try and identify people.


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## gipimann

Laramie said:


> So why does the Dept. of Social Welfare need this information unless they are building a data base on everyone.



The Department already has a database of everyone who has a PPSN.


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## Grizzly

gipimann said:


> The Department already has a database of everyone who has a PPSN.



I have never given a copy of my birth certificate to the Department of Social Services. There is a copy in the Births, Marriages and Deaths offices. How have they linked the two? Is it by Name & Date of Birth or have they just made assumptions?


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## gipimann

Did you supply a date of birth when you applied for a tax number (now PPSN)?


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## Kimmagegirl

I had to call to Amiens Street about this card last week. Very little parking in the area. There are no toilet facilities at Gandon House which I thought strange. When you enter a security guard grunts at you to queue at the reception area. Reception area just beside the entrance door. Not enough room to queue here with people coming and going. No privacy. You are given ticket and asked to take a seat until your number is called. Staff leave in large groups to go on coffee break. Not replaced, so you are delayed until they come back. Process quick enough. Although you are sitting in a cubicle type area giving your personal details you can overhear everyone else's personal details being given. The staff who are issuing the cards also seem to know about everyone's social welfare claims and could be heard speaking in loud voices about these to people. Why do staff issuing I.D. cards have access to this type of information or even need to know this information.


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## RainyDay

Kimmagegirl said:


> I had to call to Amiens Street about this card last week. Very little parking in the area. There are no toilet facilities at Gandon House which I thought strange. When you enter a security guard grunts at you to queue at the reception area. Reception area just beside the entrance door. Not enough room to queue here with people coming and going. No privacy. You are given ticket and asked to take a seat until your number is called. Staff leave in large groups to go on coffee break. Not replaced, so you are delayed until they come back. Process quick enough. Although you are sitting in a cubicle type area giving your personal details you can overhear everyone else's personal details being given. The staff who are issuing the cards also seem to know about everyone's social welfare claims and could be heard speaking in loud voices about these to people. Why do staff issuing I.D. cards have access to this type of information or even need to know this information.



What you describe is probably a fairly typical experience for most people attending the social protection office. This is my guess - it's been quite a while since I've attended. I'm not excusing the situation - just putting it in context. 

You could try flagging up your experience to the Minister or the shiny new junior Minister and see what change they might inspire.


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## riya99

When confirming receipt of card, or activating it, you are asked to phone (yet another!) 1890 number. The number for those who wish to phone a landline is 071 9672692.


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## Grizzly

I got a letter to call. When I called they couldn't find me on their system even though they were the ones who sent me the request to call. I was kept waiting about 30 minutes while various people came and had a look at the computer, exchanged a few words with their colleagues and so forth. I felt like some sort of oddity when various people began peeping around the corner at me. "Never saw anything like this before" was the excuse given to me. In the end I had to leave. I was promised that they would get back to me with a reason. Nine months later nobody got back to me.


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## amtc

The reason is because it uses photo match software that measures distance between eyes and ears


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