# Ex employer refusing to give me a reference



## Kiddo (24 Aug 2006)

I'm currently job hunting and am at the stage where references are being requested. I have give the recruitment agency the names and numbers of my previous two employers. I phoned both as a courtesy to let them know I had given their names, which is just as well as one is refusing to give me a reference. The one and only reason being that I didn't return a call to him 6 months after I had left. I was with this guy for quite a few years and a lot of my relevant work experiance was gained with him, so naturally enough prospective employers want to speak with him.

I was always accomodating with regards to overtime, travel etc when I worked there. I even rearranged appointments in the week before my wedding to accomodate him. In the weeks after I left I went back in the evenings to tie up some loose ends. I told him that he was free to contact me but to do so outside working hours. He and other staff contacted me quite a few times after I left with various queries which I always did my best to answer. Then it got to the stage that they were phoning me with every little query during working hours. I felt that after 6 months it was time to draw a line in the sand, so I didn't return the next call and I haven't heard from them since.

My immediate boss took it quite personally when I left and even tried to talk me into staying. Now he's saying the only thing he will confirm is that I worked there from X to Y dates..and ha ha how he knew the day would come when I'd be looking for a reference. There is no-one else in the company, who's name I could give as they are all afraid of him.

I have contacted the agency and explained the situation and they have taken the number of another previous employer instead. 

Any advise on how to handle the issue in the future? We all know you don't bad mouth previous employers but how do I address the issue if prospective employers query why I am not giving this person as a referee?


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## Humpback (24 Aug 2006)

Kiddo said:


> Now he's saying the only thing he will confirm is that I worked there from X to Y dates..


 
That's all he's obliged to give, and the fact that he only provides that information cannot (or at least should not) be taken by prospective employers in either a positive or negative manner. Many major investment banks will only ever confirm this information.



Kiddo said:


> Any advi*c*e on how to handle the issue in the future?


 
Return peoples phone calls when they try to contact you. It's a matter of simple courtesy, no matter who they are or what the situation is.


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## askalot (24 Aug 2006)

Kiddo said:


> Any advise on how to handle the issue in the future? We all know you don't bad mouth previous employers but how do I address the issue if prospective employers query why I am not giving this person as a referee?



You shouldn't have a problem so long as he doesn't start bad mouthing you - he does sound like an idiot. If he starts giving false information out about you then I would fire off a solicators letter to the head of the company he works for complaining about his behaviour and asking that they appoint someone else within the company to give you a referance. Might take the wind out of his sails.


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## HighFlier (24 Aug 2006)

Matbe also you should say to the prospective employer that it is the policy of the company you worked for to only confirm the period of time any employee worked there.


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## Lauren (24 Aug 2006)

I'd say that the way you just explained the situation here is perfectly fine. If I was a prospective employer I would understand your position totally.


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## CN624 (24 Aug 2006)

Have you tried getting a friend to ring your old employer to see what he actually says when he is asked for a reference?


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## onekeano (24 Aug 2006)

I work for a very large hi tech company and that's all we (as managers) are only allowed to provide information on dates that the former employee worked with the company. This is supposed to be to protect the company from being sued by future employers who determine that the employee is a dud or worse. 

IMO this is a crazy situation - I've had excellent people move on but invariably they give teh potential employer my number so the reference is verbal but would be very positive. In my experience where the employee has been less thanhelpful or useful the referee would normally be less than enthusiastic and teh potential employer picks up on the inference and makes up their own mind.

I wouldn't agree with Ronan about you should return peoples calls - that former emploer sounds like a complete lunatic and the only criticism I would have is that perhaps you were too accomodating in teh first place.

Best of luck 
Roy


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## Kiddo (24 Aug 2006)

ronan_d_john said:


> Return peoples phone calls when they try to contact you. It's a matter of simple courtesy, no matter who they are or what the situation is.


 
As I said above I returned all their calls until it got to the stage where 6 months later they were ringing me with queries that they could have easliy found the answer to by looking at the relevant file..in fact it probably would have been quicker to do so. In addition I was being disturbed on my new employers time, despite the fact that I had told them I had no problem helping them out but asked them not to phone me during working hours. On one occassion they phoned 10 times in the space of one day...which I think is excessive. They couldn't extend me the simple courtesy of phoning outside office hours as requested..

Its common practise for prospective employers to get a verbal reference...and a standard A worked from X To Y wouldn't be the norm...small business rather than multi-national company. He has given me a glowing reference in the past when I had intended to leave but was then persuaded to stay. I can honestly say I gave 110% to the job and was always willing to go the extra mile. I am really disappointed and upset that he is treating me this way.

Anyway the agency has received a glowing reference from the other employer and he even said he would have no problem re-employing me but the prospective employer wants a reference from this guy as I worked there the longest and gained experiance relevant to this new job there. 

The agency have decided to ring him regardless and let on they didn't know he wasn't prepared to give me a reference. His bark can be worse than his bite at times..so I can only hope for a favourable reply.

The worst case scenario is I lose out on this job and at least I know what to expect in the future.


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## rkeane (24 Aug 2006)

Get someone else to give you a reference.  If their position in the company is acceptable to the hiring company then you're laughing (providing its a good one).  Just explain that your old boss is away on annual leave.  I used to think that good references are one of the most important thing to get from a job.  I dont think that way now.


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## whackin (24 Aug 2006)

ronan_d_john said:


> That's all he's obliged to give, and the fact that he only provides that information cannot (or at least should not) be taken by prospective employers in either a positive or negative manner. Many major investment banks will only ever confirm this information.
> 
> 
> 
> Return peoples phone calls when they try to contact you. It's a matter of simple courtesy, no matter who they are or what the situation is.



Sorry, that's just overly simplistic. The OP explained quite clearly that his original employers were takeing advantage of them and that he had been more than corteous to them on many occasions. He was quite within his rights not to return their call, and one could only expect that his employers could show him courtesy based on what seems to be an exemplary employment record, rather than on his (justificable) behaviour 6 months after he left the company.


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## rkeane (24 Aug 2006)

whackin said:


> Sorry, that's just overly simplistic. The OP explained quite clearly that his original employers were takeing advantage of them and that he had been more than corteous to them on many occasions. He was quite within his rights not to return their call, and one could only expect that his employers could show him courtesy based on what seems to be an exemplary employment record, rather than on his (justificable) behaviour 6 months after he left the company.


And the op got suckered. Its unfortunate but the crime is not not getting a reference. Its being conned into doing all those favours. The refence bit can be overcome.


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## whackin (24 Aug 2006)

rkeane said:


> And the op got suckered. Its unfortunate but the crime is not not getting a reference. Its being conned into doing all those favours. The refence bit can be overcome.




I agree there too, there generally is no benefit giving your time to previous employers. I've yet to hear of it being appreciated.


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## onekeano (24 Aug 2006)

Kiddo said:


> I can honestly say I gave 110% to the job and was always willing to go the extra mile. I am really disappointed and upset that he is treating me this way.
> 
> Anyway the agency has received a glowing reference from the other employer and he even said he would have no problem re-employing me



Kiddo, you're not an experienced software development engineer by any chance  if so I know somewhere you migh be appreciated a bit more.

Best of luck anyway

Roy


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## Kiddo (25 Aug 2006)

onekeano said:


> Kiddo, you're not an experienced software development engineer by any chance  if so I know somewhere you migh be appreciated a bit more.
> 
> Best of luck anyway
> 
> Roy


 
Afraid not Roy.

Latest update is I was offered the job this morning and have accepted it. New employer is happy enough with the one reference he has received. I'm delighted as its a great opportunity for me.

I contacted the other partner in my previous job and explained the situation. He was somewhat shocked at the other guys refusal to give me a reference and has agreed to be my referee. I didn't work much with him but he's prepared to vouch for me personally, that I got on well with everyone etc. 

And Karma has bitten the ex-boss on the a$$ as he has lost an important client yesterday


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## onekeano (25 Aug 2006)

Kiddo said:


> Afraid not Roy.
> 
> And Karma has bitten the ex-boss on the a$$ as he has lost an important client yesterday



Now there's a surprise! What comes around....................

Best of luck in the new job Kiddo..........you never know you might end up interviewing the old boss at some stage!

Roy


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## contemporary (30 Aug 2006)

I think people who want references should ask for them when they leave, i.e. can i have it with my p45. Also people should cut their ties with old employers, you have moved on so should your old employer.

When last asked for a reference all i could think of was catberts 
"'I'm sorry, I cant give references for former employees. But if I did, it would rhyme with "Mazy Loron"."


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