# JA Means test, Marriage and savings



## Baltar (21 Nov 2009)

Shortly my stamps will run out and I will have to switch from JB to JA, as I have savings of 37k (including my redundancy) it looks like it will be less than the standard rate as I have more than 20k.

Even though I am married, is that figure correct? (My wife does not work). I did a lot of looking on the Welfare and Citizens advice site and even though I seem to get 2 x 20k allowances when applying for a Medical Card it does not seem to be the case with JA.

A little clarification would be great, thanks!


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## gipimann (21 Nov 2009)

Yes, 20k disregard applies whether you're single or married for the purposes of the JA means test.


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## Baltar (21 Nov 2009)

gipimann said:


> Yes, 20k disregard applies whether you're single or married for the purposes of the JA means test.



Thanks for the reply, what happens if my wife has the balance in her (non joint) account? Would that make a difference? 

I'm not looking to do anything dishonest but it's mindboggling to think a single person will be deducted the same amount as me (a married man with 2 kids), am I missing something?


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## Baltar (24 Nov 2009)

Anybody else any opinions? 

I've searched this forum meticulously and found conflicting reports, some saying my wife is entitled to 20k of her own in savings, others saying not, some saying I should have the lot in a joint account, some saying not.

Just looking for a bit of clarity so I know what to expect, thanks...


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## fababby (24 Nov 2009)

Information above is accurate as far as I am aware.  Its a 20k disregard for JA so your €37k would give a means of €24 which would be deducted from your JA payment.  What may be confusing you and mentioned on other forums is if both you and your wife were being assessed for a means tested payment then it could be assessed on a shared basis or only against one of you.  Also this disregard of 20k varies for other means tested payments such as Disability Allowance.

Regarding your question about the savings being in an account in your wife's name only - the department can ask for bank statements which will show a paper trail for the money.  Not advisable.  

A


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## Baltar (24 Nov 2009)

Thanks, like I said I don't want to do anything illegal or stupid, I just want to be armed with all the info I can, I don't want to loose out on payments if I can avoid it.

I just never realised how complex the welfare system is, and the amount of contradictions!!


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## gurramok (4 Dec 2009)

Just withdraw the excess cash and say you spent it. Problem solved. Totally legal.


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## Welfarite (4 Dec 2009)

gurramok said:


> Just withdraw the excess cash and say you spent it. Problem solved. Totally legal.


 

This won't work. Sw will ask for proof that it was spent. To clarify the oriiginal query, the means of a married person are half the total means so, account is taken of 20k disregard doubled. So, if the means from the 37k is €24, only €12 will be deducted from the payment


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## gurramok (9 Dec 2009)

Where is the legal means to ask for receipts in such a scenario?

I'm not talking about spending 17k in one go, do it in dribs and drabs.


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## hawkmar (9 Dec 2009)

gurramok said:


> Where is the legal means to ask for receipts in such a scenario?
> 
> I'm not talking about spending 17k in one go, do it in dribs and drabs.


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## hawkmar (9 Dec 2009)

Put the money in a family members account, how much does a married man with 3 kids get on the dole


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## woodbine (9 Dec 2009)

_If you are on a means-tested Social Welfare payment, you might consider paying off your mortgage. _

_This is a difficult one. If you have been unemployed for 9 months and apply for Jobseekers Allowance, they will __means test__ you. If you have savings in excess of €20,000, your weekly payment will be reduced. So it makes sense to reduce your mortgage. Of course, if you are on Jobseekers Allowance you may well want the comfort of having some savings available. _

_Example of someone with €100,000 who is being means tested who does not pay off their mortgage_

_Interest received €4,000_
_Interest paid (3,700)_
_Reduction in Jobseekers Allowance: (2,800)_
_Annual cost of keeping money on deposit: €2,500 _

_You should probably reduce your lump-sum to around €40,000_


From this key post. http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=101819&highlight=means+test+mortgage

Might be an option if you have a mortgage.


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## Welfarite (9 Dec 2009)

This from means assessment operational guidelines:-

'Withdrawals of capital not accounted for:
Large withdrawals of capital should be investigated - receipts should be requested to validate large sums spent. See "Property transferred" below re capital that is transferred to another person. Withdrawals that are not satisfactorily accounted for should be assessed.'


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## Baltar (18 Jul 2010)

Welfarite said:


> This won't work. Sw will ask for proof that it was spent. To clarify the oriiginal query, the means of a married person are half the total means so, account is taken of 20k disregard doubled. So, if the means from the 37k is €24, only €12 will be deducted from the payment



Just as a follow up, I underwent the means test and was accessed as having an income of €22 (I paid off the following months credit card bill in advance so it wasn't counted as means) for a total of €36k in savings, as I stated originally being married did not count towards having less means.


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## Welfarite (18 Jul 2010)

You aren't assessed with 'less means'; instead means assessments are halved ... unless you are claiming your wife as a dependant, in which case, obviously full means would be deducted from the increased payment. 
If the only assessable means was €36k then full means work out at €16 per week. The must be more means involved? Did you get a breakdown of the means calculation when you were assessed? That should show how it was calculated, whether halved, etc..


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## Baltar (18 Jul 2010)

Ok, I probably didn't word that correctly.

And yes, I am claiming my wife as a dependant (as stated in my first post that she doesn't work), so we're agreed that the means are calculated correctly (even though unfairly IMHO)?


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## Welfarite (18 Jul 2010)

Well, as I said, can't figure out where means of €22 comes from based on €36k capital? did you look at breakdown?
Don't know about 'unfair' as the system is supposed to balance out the fact that you get extra for spouse as opposed to single person and therefore deducts full means. If you claimed for self only it's half means (i.e. you have benefit of half household means, single person hasn't). 
The unfair bit is the limitation put on a married couple (196 plus qualified adult allowance, less full means) where they don't get two full 'single' payments of 196 less half means!
(this is a bit too technical for me on a Sunday!)


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## Baltar (18 Jul 2010)

36k - 20k (disregard) = 16k 
€1 per €1k for the first 10k = €10 
and €2 per €1k for the next 6k = €12
for a total of €22 a week means (from memory, there was a letter somewhere)

Why I think it's unfair (along with your points) is that when assessed for a medical card the 20k limit is doubled for a married couple (fairer system) and also the fact that my payment gets deducted more in a year than my full €36k earns!

I'm not greedy here folks, this is my life savings, I've been savings for years to be able to buy my council house and now this stands against me! Ironically if I had nothing in the bank and a €2 million house that I owned outright I wouldn't be loosing any money each and every week!

Oh well...

Que Sera, Sera!


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## Welfarite (18 Jul 2010)

Baltar said:


> 36k - 20k (disregard) = 16k
> €1 per €1k for the first 10k = €10
> and €2 per €1k for the next 6k = €12
> for a total of €22 a week means (from memory, there was a letter somewhere)


 
Gotcha now...Sunday syndrome alright!


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