# Registrar Honohan has been removed from debt cases



## Brendan Burgess (24 Jan 2019)

The Courts Service announced today that Ed Honohan will no longer be handling debt cases.
They will be handled by a judge instead.

That is a very interesting development. 

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-master-debt-cases-4457712-Jan2019/

Brendan


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## noproblem (24 Jan 2019)

Saw that. He was on Prime Time tonight, came across as a guy who likes himself and knows everything worth knowing.


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## Sarenco (24 Jan 2019)

Not before time.

Frankly, the man is an embarrassment to the Courts Service.


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## Delboy (28 Jan 2019)

*Honohan’s striking out of repossession order ‘beggars belief’, judge says*
*Master of the High Court criticised over decision to dismiss application by bank*
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...ion-order-beggars-belief-judge-says-1.3773691


> Mr Justice Garrett Simons said “it beggars belief” that Master Edmund Honohan, despite various court decisions that he had no power to do so, had continued to make orders striking out special summonses such as the one brought by Permanent TSB against Geoffrey Carr over the repossession of land and a house at Carney Commons, Carney, Co Tipperary.
> 
> “This course of conduct on the part of the Master simply serves to increase legal costs unnecessarily and to cause delay”, Mr Justice Simons said in a High Court judgment on Monday.
> 
> ...


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## Bronte (29 Jan 2019)

That's pretty shocking that Honohan's actions would lead to false hope and more legal costs.

I wonder why he stroke out the case if the man wasn't even in court and had not filed any affidavit.


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## Delboy (29 Jan 2019)

Honohan's supporters speak up for him. Another kick at the separation of powers...they weren't have as critical back in the Financial crisis when Judge's pay cuts were on the table

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...-court-deeply-sinister-and-worrying-1.3775288


> The decision by the President of t he High Court to remove mortgage debt cases from the Master of the High Court has been described in the Dáil as “deeply sinister and worrying”.
> 
> Master Edmund Honohan had been dealing with up to 200 cases a week involving claims over debts but last week Mr Justice Kelly removed all debt cases from the Master to be directly assigned to a High Court judge.
> 
> ...


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## Lone Star (1 Feb 2019)

Master Edmund Honohan is one of the few good men in this country. He's far from an embarrassment to the courts - he is one of the few actually doing his job without fear or favour. shameful to state otherwise. I know. I speak first hand.


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## Sarenco (2 Feb 2019)

Lone Star said:


> ...he is one of the few actually doing his job without fear or favour.


He wasn't actually - he repeated acted outside his jurisdiction.  Much to the embarrassment of the Courts service.  To suggest otherwise is delusional.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Feb 2019)

Lone Star said:


> he is one of the few actually doing his job without fear or favour.



Hi Lone Star

Did you read the bit above 



> Mr Justice Garrett Simons said “it beggars belief” that Master Edmund Honohan, despite various court decisions that he had no power to do so, had continued to make orders striking out special summonses such as the one brought by Permanent TSB against Geoffrey Carr over the repossession of land and a house at Carney Commons, Carney, Co Tipperary.



Have you seen him at public presentations where he is advising anti-repossession groups on new Bills? 

That would be like a High Court judge appearing in public giving advice to an anti-abortion group. 

It's not the role of the Registrar to advise campaigning groups on the law. 

By all means, he could make comments in his court and make recommendations to the government. But he should not have been campaigning for one side or the other.

Brendan


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## jdwex (2 Feb 2019)

He met up with  likes of Ben Gilroy for dinner, and Ben is in jail for contempt of court. Doesn't help his credibility when he meets up with these right wing freeman types
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ends-meeting-with-housing-activists-m8kpwkr0l


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## Lone Star (2 Feb 2019)

Does it matter who met who....Didn't Martin Mc Guinness etc sit down with Ian Paisley etc and achieve a peace agreement.....It suits some to dislike Master Honohan and to believe what they will is their perogative. He is without doubt one of the most honourable men in Ireland - the banks and vultures may take homes - however they nor any man can ever take that away from Edmund Honohan. I leave it there gentlemen.


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## PaddyBloggit (2 Feb 2019)

Lone Star said:


> Does it matter who met who



Surely it does... as a servant of the court it's his job to remain impartial and to be seen as such.

Meeting one side or another is not being impartial.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Feb 2019)

Lone Star said:


> Didn't Martin Mc Guinness etc sit down with Ian Paisley



Neither were supposed to be impartial judges or public servants.

Brendan


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## Rambo1 (4 Feb 2019)

And is it not the case that the very same judges are suppose to at least read the entire paperwork relating to the case to further ensure that all is proper and legal before permitting a case to proceed? and to ensure fairness for both parties? Impartiality works both ways!  And this is what The Master was doing............Some call it campaigning, others call it, actually doing his job and coming up with possible solutions! BTW our taoiseach Has met up with Mr Lowry a number of times....anything for the good of the party eh!


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## Dazzler123 (4 Feb 2019)

He's only had debt cases removed from him. It should be stressed that he has exactly the same level of involvement in possession cases now as he had before this change.

In terms of impartiality, if the master had dinner with a load of bankers to discuss evictions, there would be uproar so I don't see why this is any different. Particularly, as his proposed legislation Is designed to impede banks from enforcing security.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Feb 2019)

Dazzler123 said:


> if the master had dinner with a load of bankers to discuss evictions, there would be uproar



Hi Dazzler 

That is a much better comparison. 

It would make a good April Fool's story.  "Master Honohan advises Irish Mortgage Federation on a new Bill to speed up evictions" 

Brendan


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## Yoga Woga (5 Feb 2019)

It might not necessarily be an april fool........as it is worth pointing out that 'we do not know if the Master of the High Court has not or indeed has met with bankers to discuss evictions over dinner or indeed tapas!!' there's a thought for us all - we are not in the know...... In any event at the end of the day he seems to see the value of human lives over monetary gain....we might ask to have our coffins lined with it but we certainly can't take it with us - Is it not the case that a plethora of Irish banks overcharged customers in the tracker scandal...so the bank employees are not always right, and their barristers as they stand in the Master's Court know less about the case in their hands than Edmund Honohan - because he unlike they have read all the papers!! To be honest I'm surprised they didn't take the debt cases away from him before now...Justice Kelly must have been triple checking the HR manual! I wonder did he read it all!


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## Dazzler123 (5 Feb 2019)

Yoga Woga said:


> It might not necessarily be an april fool........as it is worth pointing out that 'we do not know if the Master of the High Court has not or indeed has met with bankers to discuss evictions over dinner or indeed tapas!!' there's a thought for us all - we are not in the know...... In any event at the end of the day he seems to see the value of human lives over monetary gain....we might ask to have our coffins lined with it but we certainly can't take it with us - Is it not the case that a plethora of Irish banks overcharged customers in the tracker scandal...so the bank employees are not always right, and their barristers as they stand in the Master's Court know less about the case in their hands than Edmund Honohan - because he unlike they have read all the papers!! To be honest I'm surprised they didn't take the debt cases away from him before now...Justice Kelly must have been triple checking the HR manual! I wonder did he read it all!



I think it would be fairly safe to say that the Master has not met with bankers over dinner! But, I don't have any inside info there. 

In terms of your comment relating to valuing human lives over financial gain... In terms of court cases involving debts to a Bank, the Master does not deal with home repossessions, they are dealt with in the Circuit Court for the last few years now.  Home repossessions is where the great emotional upheaval is in terms of court cases taken by Banks.  Admittedly, the Master does deal with a certain type of home repossessions (well charging orders), but these are few and far between and would be the exception rather than the rule. 

In terms of knowing more about the case than the barristers, he deals with over fifty cases per day.  He does not read them before Court so if anything he knows as much about the case as the Banks barrister.     

In terms of the general point relating to overcharging on trackers, it is clear that many, many tracker cases where compensation etc has been paid, would not win in Court as they are statute barred.  Although interestingly, if a Bank sued you for judgment, raising a tracker point would not be statue barred  given that it's a counterclaim.  It would be interesting to see how someone in an as yet, uncompensated cohort, takes a counterclaim for a tracker in a set of judgment proceedings.


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## Dazzler123 (5 Feb 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Dazzler
> 
> That is a much better comparison.
> 
> ...



That would be quite the U-turn by the Master but you could see the logic in it for the "won't pay" cohort.


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## RedOnion (5 Feb 2019)

Dazzler123 said:


> would not win in Court as they are statute barred.


I don't believe that's 100% accurate. Where the mortgage is still in place, as it's a breach of a still active contract, it cannot be statute barred. There are several other reasons where they wouldn't have won in court, but statute of limitations isn't the main one.


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## Dazzler123 (5 Feb 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I don't believe that's 100% accurate. Where the mortgage is still in place, as it's a breach of a still active contract, it cannot be statute barred. There are several other reasons where they wouldn't have won in court, but statute of limitations isn't the



The date when the tracker should have been offered or taken up is the operative date for the statute of limitations


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## RedOnion (5 Feb 2019)

Dazzler123 said:


> The date when the tracker should have been offered or taken up is the operative date for the statute of limitations


Sorry, of course you are correct. I was thinking of a different scenario when I posted above.


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## Delboy (9 Feb 2019)

*'Court president should explain why he took debt cases from me' - says Master of High Court*
https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...om-me-says-master-of-high-court-37798262.html


> Since last Monday, all motions seeking liberty to enter a final judgment in summary summons proceedings must go before a High Court judge rather than the Master.
> The decision has proved controversial and prompted a demonstration outside the Four Courts on Monday.
> As of yesterday, more than 4,300 people had signed an online petition seeking the return of debt cases to the Master.
> In the interview, Mr Honohan was also heavily critical of cuts to legal aid, saying the overriding agenda of the Government was not due process, but saving money.
> ...


Looks like they might have to fire him because he's not going to stay quiet in the role no matter how much they kick him


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## NoRegretsCoyote (10 Feb 2019)

Delboy said:


> Looks like they might have to fire him



If I read the Court Officers Act 1926 right then he can only be removed by the Government with the agreement of the Chief Justice and the President of the High Court.

I doubt that is likely.


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## Delboy (8 Mar 2019)

Ed's latest salvo

*Judges no longer able to view bank records ‘without suspicion’*
*Judges uncritically favouring banks ‘should resign’, High Court master Honohan says*
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...view-bank-records-without-suspicion-1.3819127


> “This is banking ‘culture’. It starts with bonuses and ends in disinformation,” he said. “The age of innocence is over. Bank’s affidavits have fallen from grace. They no longer enjoy any presumption of accuracy. Justice now requires scepticism,” he said.
> 
> That did not mean that a judge who critically examines banks’ affidavits is somehow prejudiced against banks. The converse applied, as failure to do so “suggests a prejudice against debtors”.
> “This is banking ‘culture’. It starts with bonuses and ends in disinformation,” he said. “The age of innocence is over. Bank’s affidavits have fallen from grace. They no longer enjoy any presumption of accuracy. Justice now requires scepticism,” he said.
> ...


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## Lone Star (9 Mar 2019)

he's still talking and we're still talking about him......he won't stop until he's done!


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## RETIRED2017 (9 Mar 2019)

With or without P  Honahan The banks are not going to get back the money the over lended To mortgage holders,

The people who are giving out about P honahan would be giving out anyway, Because only for him there would lots of hard earned taxpayers money spent housing the people the Banks over lent too without checking could they pay it back,

I know there are people taking advantage of the fact Banks over lending makes it is hard for the Banks to get repossessions, But they Brought it on themselves,

I don't like it one bit, but there is nothing in it for the taxpayers if Banks could just throw people out of the houses the over lent too, Driving up house prices at the time of lending,

If we are not very careful the taxpayers will be picking up another Bill by the looks of things,


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2019)

This is a really shocking case illustrating how off the wall Honhohan has become 

It's in the Sunday Times so you will need a subscription.

*Nama wins appeal on case struck out by ‘irrational’ High Court master Edmund Honohan*

_Nama has successfully appealed an “irrational” order made by the master of the High Court, striking out its application for a €19m judgment against a businessman.


In January, Edmund Honohan, who holds the quasi-judicial role of High Court master, struck out Nama’s attempt to get a judgment against the businessman John Brennan.


In an affidavit filed with the High Court, Alan Quigley, Nama’s solicitor in the case, accuses Honohan of acting irrationally, inappropriately and outside his jurisdiction by arguing for one side in the case. Nama claims Honohan was “wrong in fact and in law”._


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## PaddyBloggit (10 Mar 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> illustrating how off the wall Honhohan has become



He sounds like a complete and utter moron.


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