# Porcelain tiles are uneven - who is responsible?



## pudzer (12 Mar 2009)

I recently purchased expensive polished porcelain tiles (€60 sq.m.).  

They were laid last week and I am very disappointed with them.  Quite a number of them are very obviously uneven i.e. they have a slight belly in them.  It's only obvious to my eye since the tiles were put down as you can now see 'shadows' from tile to tile in the sunlight or at night when the light is on.

The tiler agrees that the tiles are not good.  Btw, it's a new house and the tiler levelled the floor prior to tiling.

I called the shop and asked them to come out and see my 'uneven porcelain tiles' and they said "that's the best I've ever heard!".

I have asked a representative from the tile company to come out.  Have I any other route that I could take?

We have UFH and wanted to be 'shoeless' in our house but now it's possible that someone could clip their toe between some of the tiles.
P.S. The tiles are Spanish.


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## jhegarty (12 Mar 2009)

If the tiles were that bad the tiler should have spotted it when trying to put them down.

I'd be 99% sure the problem is with your tiler.


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## Smashbox (12 Mar 2009)

Surely the tiler shouldnt have laid them if they were in that bad a condition?


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## colm (12 Mar 2009)

Smashbox said:


> Surely the tiler shouldnt have laid them if they were in that bad a condition?


A good tiler should have spotted this first, He should also have spotted it the floor was not right. I got porcelain tiles in my kitchen last year. My tiler made the builders relay the floor 3 times before he would do the work.


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## spursfan1234 (12 Mar 2009)

been there done that

i had the exact same problem. porcelain tiles need a 100% level floor. my tiler was a waste of space and never even levelled the floor. needless to say the tiles looked very poor indeed. i lost the head and got the tiler back to fix them. he couldnt take them all up again but fixed the majority of them ( more adhesive etc). i covered the rest with rugs and plants. suffice to say this kind of problem is totally the tilers fault and you need to kick his ass


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## pudzer (12 Mar 2009)

Thanks for your replies.

SpursFan: how did your tiler rectify the situation?  Did he have to break some of the really bad tiles to remove them and then put news ones in i.e. more money down the drain?  That sounds like a nightmare.  Did you pay him?

Can I ask a silly question?  If the tiler has to use extra grouting to level the floor because of 'unstraight' tiles, would the floor not be slightly unlevel underneath as a result?

I guess I'm finding it difficult to understand how the tiler can be wrong when the shop sold me unlevel tiles.  SUrely the shop has some responsibility?  I have Googled information on porcelain tiles and they should be 100% level as they are manmade.

Is there any independent body or person that is available to guide people in situations like this? E.g. Homebond inbuilding houses;  I have spent nearly €10k on these tiles and really want to pursue the responsible party.

Thanks again.


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## gocall01 (13 Mar 2009)

Am I correct when I say that if you take a single tile and examine it, it is not flat, i.e. has a curved surface?
That is what I am getting from you posts, not that the tiles are perfectly level and the tiler just did a bad job!
If the tile quality is the issue then the tile shop is surely responsible.
Obviously the tiler should have seen the issue and made you aware of it before laying them.
I also would be interested to see the small print in the terms & conditions on the sellers receipt.
I have seen something along the lines of "it is the customers responsibility to check the material's quality, measurements and colour prior to laying".
Not sure of the legal situation here.


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## spursfan1234 (13 Mar 2009)

i have never in my life seen tiles warped when they are sold. you might get one but definetely not any more. the tiler put these down wrong and is blaming the tiles. you have no come back whatsoever to the shop, its nothing to do with them

i had to buy more tiles and he took up the bad ones and put the new ones down. i paid for the tiles but didnt give him a cent for the extra work.i actually underpaid him 300 euro at the end as there are 4-5 ones still not good but at that stage i couldnt b bothered to deal with him anymore and kicked him out. i still have spares ones around and might get someone in to fix the rest but at the moment im happy.

the bellies in the tiles are due to the floor not being even and the tiler not fixing it first


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## skingtile (13 Mar 2009)

there are accepted tolerances in tiles, once tiles have been laid it is acceptance, it is up to tiler. were your tiles laid with a staggered joint


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## DMCD25 (14 Mar 2009)

I am a tiler myself so maybe I can help. Was your tiles put down in a brick effect pattern. If it is brick then more than likely the tile you used is a case where the grout joints should be diagonal every say 4 inches instead of grout joint at half way point of tile. In this case the tile shop should have told you this so as to prevent shadows of edges.
The only other option is you hired a bad tiler. How much did you pay per sq/yd to have porcelain laid.


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## Mr Bishi (14 Mar 2009)

Ah ha the bowed porcelain. Any good tile shop will or should have told you that 60x60 porcelain is not to be laid in a brick pattern because they are prone to bowing. Now this is only because tile shops buy in cheap porcelain and sell it as expensive stuff. 

Your Tiler should have said it to you alright. Not sure if you have any come back now the tiles are laid but I would definitly get onto the Tiler and tile shop to find a solution to this. It has nothing to do with the floor even if it's unlevel. 

I have seen this a lot and that's why my price will not come down for laying porcelain. Maybe people should look at this thread first before getting someone in to lay porcelain. These are a very specialised job and need a confident person to lay them right. 

@Spursfan, in actual fact 40% of porcelain sold in this country is warped. If you were a Tiler you would no this but you are clearly not and therefor can't comment with certainty on this topic.


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## spursfan1234 (15 Mar 2009)

mr bishi. i can certainly comment on bad tilers so knock if off with your attitude. at least 60% of tilers in this country are rip off merchant gansters


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## Mr Bishi (15 Mar 2009)

Well I for one am not one of those 60% of those tilers and it seems you haven't bought much tiles to be able to say that tiles are not sold warped, when in fact it's way more common than you think. 

Anyway it is 50/50 between the Tiler and shop as to who takes resposibilty for this job and I hope it does get sorted otherwise it gives the tilers out there a bad name.


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## GeneralZod (15 Mar 2009)

Gents - please keep it cordial. [broken link removed]


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## Mr Bishi (15 Mar 2009)

I must add for anyone else readig this who want porcelain, when you take delivery of tiles always put 2 tiles face to face and check if they are warped. If they are get onto the shop right away and ask for a new batch because if get some from the same batch they are also going to be warped. 

If you don't do this and the Tiler is looking for a quick buck then you're going to run into problems.


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## hacker (16 Mar 2009)

Bought kitchen tiles last year and the tiler started laying them but noticed many of them were warped.  He stopped the job, rang me, rang the shop where I bought them.  The tile shop manager replaced tiles for different ones (turns out the ones I had picked were an end of line and couldnt be got any more). New tiles were same price range but the border I picked was more expensive, didnt charge me. The tiler was re-embursed for his time by shop also , as I was paying him by the sq yard.  But must say tiler was on the ball and knew his trade and there was no fuss with the tile shop either.


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## skingtile (16 Mar 2009)

hacker said:


> Bought kitchen tiles last year and the tiler started laying them but noticed many of them were warped. He stopped the job, rang me, rang the shop where I bought them. The tile shop manager replaced tiles for different ones (turns out the ones I had picked were an end of line and couldnt be got any more). New tiles were same price range but the border I picked was more expensive, didnt charge me. The tiler was re-embursed for his time by shop also , as I was paying him by the sq yard. But must say tiler was on the ball and knew his trade and there was no fuss with the tile shop either.


 that is the professional way to handle things, moral of story, dont always base your decision of tilers purely on fiscal grounds.


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## sparkeee (17 Mar 2009)

did u get a cheap tiler?


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## pudzer (17 Mar 2009)

Guys,

Thanks for your responses.

I didn't get a cheap tiler.  In fact, he was the most expensive of the three that were recommended to me and that I chose to 'interview' for the job.  I also went to see some of his previous work without his knowledge.  I believe in the quality remaining once the price has been forgotten and that's why I am pursuing this issue rather than ignoring it and 'learning to live with it'.  I have learned that I get what I pay for!

I have spoken to the tiler and to the shop.  My tiler was has agreed that some of the tiles are not perfect and he has agreed to change them at his expense.  I am meeting a rep from the tile company this week and I am going to suggest that they replace the 'bellied' tiles free-of-charge.

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again
Pudzer


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## sweetpea0902 (19 Mar 2009)

Hi,just noticed all the fuss over porcelain tiles, we bought ours 60x60 beige porcelain tiles at B&Q for €13 per sqr yard last November, tiler had no problem putting them down and they are looking fantastic, although I must admit very hard to keep clean. I did use a sealant on the tilers advise after they were put down.  They are available againat B&Q and also available in black.


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