# Waste and Inefficienty at the VHI



## WaterWater (14 Jul 2005)

Last year my son decided that he didn't want to be insured with VHI anymore. After contacting them to cancel his policy he continued to receive reminders that "payment was due", "last chance to pay" etc etc 
Now six months later these letters have started again. I contacted VHI on his behalf to ask why. The response I got was "Oh the computer appears to have activated his account". Since then he is receiving "payment due", "last chance" letters all over again!!  
Stamps, envelopes, paper, computer time, staff time what a waste of money.

When I see these guys whinging constantly with the hand out always looking for more and more money from their subscribers because they can't cope it makes my blood boil.  Will they ever get their act together.  For my money these have to be rated as the the number 1 Tosser Company!


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## WaterWater (28 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

Another letter from them today with yet another VHI Booklet. I wonder would they be interested in purchasing some of their stationery back....I could do it cheap for a bulk lot.....


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## ajapale (28 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

I've moved this to the 'letting off' steam section. I agree with you that the Back Office administration at the VHI is a long way short of Best Practice. However I find their call centre staff to be very coureous and helpfull


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## tallpaul (28 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

I have often wondered why VHI feel the need to actually have 'bricks and mortar' public offices. They have had one in Dun Laoghaire for many years. What are these offices actually for?? AFAIK BUPA or Vivas don't have them.

If VHI are so broke, why don't they close them down and make a killing on the property value?


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## GeneralZod (28 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

BUPA had an office in one of the houses on Fitzwilliam Street last time I heard.


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## Imperator (29 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

BUPAs main centre of operations is in Fermoy, Co. Cork.  They employ a lot of people down there - call centre, claims processing, sales, etc.


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## Purple (29 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

What really interests me is the fact that VHI seem to be in possession of a sentient computer which has, of it's own volition, reactivated someone’s account. If this is the case VHI need never worry about money again as this technology is worth billions.
Happy days…


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## ajapale (29 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

Hi Purple,

Thats my word for the day - ! I notice one definition is "barely [size=-1] conscious[/size]", does this describe the VHI in general?

ajapale


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## Purple (29 Jul 2005)

*Re: VHI wasting my money.*

Hi AJ,

Perhaps I should have said sapient ;-)
Personally I find the VHI slow and inefficient but I expect no more from a public sector body. They are no worse than any other state body I have dealt with.


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## onekeano (15 Aug 2005)

*23 letters from VHI in one day*

I received a call from a consultant a while ago asking me to sign some forms for some treatment over the past 4 years or so which should have been completed at the time of treatment but had not.

I signed the documents and dropped them back to the consultant who obviously forwarded to the VHI for payment. Today I got TWENTY THREE letters from VHI, one for each form and a letter saying the bill was paid in full. If this is indicative of the waste generated by VHI it's no wonder our premiums are so high.

Must be a record.

Roy


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## WaterWater (16 Aug 2005)

*Re: 23 letters from VHI in one day*

There is no doubt that this type of waste of money and resources should be brought to the attention of the VHI, The department of health, Joe Duffy, Eddie Hobbs etc in such a way that it causes the utmost embarassment. I for one have forwarded details of this thread to the VHI.....I wonder will they notice....


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## ajapale (17 Aug 2005)

I've moved this thread again! On relfection "Waste and Inefficiency at a major health insurance provider" properly belongs here in the insurance section.

ajapale


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## RS2K (17 Aug 2005)

Waste indeed.

The health service is full of it. An almost criminal waste of public funds.


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## ClubMan (17 Aug 2005)

RS2K said:
			
		

> Waste indeed.
> 
> The health service is full of it. An almost criminal waste of public funds.


The _VHI _is a private health insurance underwriter and not part of the health service per se.


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## RS2K (18 Aug 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> The _VHI _is a private health insurance underwriter and not part of the health service per se.



Thanks for that piece of groundbreaking news!


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## ClubMan (18 Aug 2005)

RS2K said:
			
		

> Thanks for that piece of groundbreaking news!


No problem. I was just a bit mystified by your off topic comments about wastage of public funds in the health service which have little or nothing to do with this thread so I thought that you might be a bit confused.


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## Purple (18 Aug 2005)

Hi Clubman,
The VHI is a public company and does operate in the health sector so many people would (rightly or wrongly) lump it in when talking about public sector inefficiencies in the health sector. You can be a bit pedantic at times (just a little).


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## ClubMan (18 Aug 2005)

"Health service" is generally synonymous with "public health service". I'm not sure what you mean by the _VHI _being a "public" company but it is not a _Plc _or anything like that. It is not part of the public health system. One person's pedantry is another person's accuracy.


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## ajapale (18 Aug 2005)

I agree with Clubman I think its good to be as accurate as possible in the terms we use.

In fairness to Purple and WW, this is partly my fault in that I have moved the thread from general discussion forums (LOS and Great Debates) to a very specific forum (Insurance). While it is here could I ask that we focus on the specific complaints levelled against the VHI and how they might be addressed?

The complaints focus on the VHI's back office administration and in particular their IT system which seems to spew out inappropriate letters.

I know that the VHI operates a Quality System perhaps the complaints could be addressed to the people who operate or assess the quality system?



> *Business                                      Excellence* Vhi Healthcare’s commitment to excellence was recognised by the retention in January 2004 of the Mark of Excellence award from Excellence Ireland. In 2003 Vhi Healthcare became the first Irish organisation to receive this prestigious All-Ireland business quality accreditation for meeting the EFQM (European Foundation Quality Management) quality standard.



Does anyone know if there is a standing Dail Committee on Public Bodies. Perhaps it would be usefull to report the two specific complaints to them?

ajapale


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## WaterWater (18 Aug 2005)

When my own son had 4 wisdom teeth extracted in Mount Carmel Hospital and mostly paid for by the VHI they insisted that he eat something after the operation. He wasn't interested but reluctantly agreed to eat a spoonful of yogurt. VHI was charged for bed and food. Food!!  So I agree with RS2K the whole health service including the VHI are involved in a criminal waste of everyones money.


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## RainyDay (18 Aug 2005)

WaterWater said:
			
		

> When my own son had 4 wisdom teeth extracted in Mount Carmel Hospital and mostly paid for by the VHI they insisted that he eat something after the operation. He wasn't interested but reluctantly agreed to eat a spoonful of yogurt. VHI was charged for bed and food. Food!!


Do you really want to have the nurses filling in more forms for the VHI to state what each patient eat at each meal? Seems sensible to me to charge a standard rate for bed & board regardless of what the patient ate.


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## DipsyChick (18 Aug 2005)

On the whole computer thing in the VHI - I recently moved from one group scheme to another and was at one stage receiving four letters a day. When I contacted them and pointed this out I was told that a new computer system has been installed and no one knows whats going out !


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## Guest127 (19 Aug 2005)

my gripe with the vhi which i have aired here before is that when my eldest turned 21 i rang vhi and asked to have her on plan A but they said that a member of a family couldn't be on a different plan to anyone else in the house. I enquired as to why not and just got a blank 'we dont do it' answer. I then asked if it would be possible for her to have here 'own' policy, but deductions made from my wages as per the 'family' plan. No was the answer. So now shes in Bupa and Vhi has lost a 21 year old , probably for life.
on the equalisation question, and I know its a question of averages, but there are two oldies in our house and two teenies. both the teenies have been hospitalised this year, bupa got stung for around €1200 and vhi for €1300 ( 4 wisdom teeth/apendectomy) , so it does not always work out that younger customers cost less.


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## Bray (22 Aug 2005)

Guys/gals I know what you are saying, but come on, anything is better than depending on the public situation.!!!I spend 3k per year on myself and family for med insurance but we are treated very well and get seen within weeks of the complaint!!! come on ...we spend that on house improvements/clothes/meals out /etc.....but its a basic need ,,,like your esb.Only its more important for peace of mind!!!look at the big picture.


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## MOB (23 Aug 2005)

"Do you really want to have the nurses filling in more forms for the VHI to state what each patient eat at each meal? Seems sensible to me to charge a standard rate for bed & board regardless of what the patient ate."

If I may take the discussion on a slight tangent - we had a child hospitalised for five days in Fuerteventura a few years ago.   It was standard practice in this hospital for the nursing staff to take detailed notes of what had been consumed by the patient at each meal.  I remember it well, because  I had been finishing off jnr's meal when a nurse explained that this would make it difficult for them to monitor the child's food intake.  It strikes me that this is a good practice (the monitoring - not finsihing off jnr's grub), though for all I know it might have been restricted to the children's ward:  does anybody know if Irish hospitals adopt the same practice?


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## ClubMan (23 Aug 2005)

MOB said:
			
		

> I had been finishing off jnr's meal


Poor kid - malnutrition was it?


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## Vhi Healthcare (23 Aug 2005)

*Reply from Vhi Healthcare*

It is a matter of record that Vhi Healthcare continues to be one of the most efficient Insurance companies in the world with an operating expense ratio of 8.6%, with the majority of insurance companies reporting expense ratios of 12% of premium income. 

During 2004/2005 Vhi Healthcare paid out more than €752 million in claims benefit on behalf of its members – on average that’s almost €3 million per day. No other health insurer in Ireland comes near to providing this level of benefit to its members.

Vhi Healthcare has no shareholders, we exist solely to serve the needs of our 1.56 million customers and contact with our members has always been a top priority. Over the last twelve months we had more than 4.3 million contacts with our members through telephone, email, mail, text messages or personal callers to our offices in Dublin, Dun Laoghaire, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Kilkenny. Our own market research consistently shows that members value this level of contact. 

Research also shows that some people particularly older people value face-to-face contact with our staff through the public offices.

Vhi Healthcare operates in a very competitive environment and we are constantly updating our product offering to reflect the changing healthcare needs of our members. We think it is important that we keep our members fully informed of any new offerings that may be of interest to them. Generally we would write to our members once a year at renewal date but on occasion where we have had an innovative and significant new product launch such as Lifestage Choices we would write and tell our members about it. In addition where changes take place in a policy either at renewal date or during the year it is our practice to fully inform our members of all our system actions Vhi Healthcare acknowledges that from time to time some individual members have had cause to complain about an aspect of our service such as multiple correspondences etc. Our policy is to seek to address any problem on an individual basis as quickly as possible and to the satisfaction of our customers.


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## Janet (23 Aug 2005)

*Re: Reply from Vhi Healthcare*



			
				info@vhi.ie said:
			
		

> Over the last twelve months we had more than 4.3 million contacts with our members through telephone, email, mail, text messages or personal callers to our offices in Dublin, Dun Laoghaire, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Kilkenny. Our own market research consistently shows that members value this level of contact.



Does this number include all of the multiple correspondence as well, I wonder.


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## RainyDay (23 Aug 2005)

MOB said:
			
		

> It was standard practice in this hospital for the nursing staff to take detailed notes of what had been consumed by the patient at each meal.


Yes, but do you really want every nurse to be recording the food records for every meal for every patient on their computer for billing purposes - seems like an awful waste of time to me.


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## badgambler (26 Aug 2005)

On the equalisation thing, I heard recently that almost every one of the Bupa staff in Fermoy sent a letter to a local PD representative and to the Min of Health.

It was that people pressure alone that forced the tanaiste to reverse her implementation of the equalisation.

I not dismissing the previous comments, but bupa are making a fortune and taking it back to the UK, they are fully commercial [PROFIT DRIVEN] in Ireland.


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## ajapale (26 Aug 2005)

Im a BUPA customer and at the height of the risk equalisation debate a few months ago I got a letter from BUPA which was more of a "policital pamplet" than an "advertising flier". I considered it a breach of the data protection legislation (information gathered about me for health insurance purposes being used in a political debate). Is this an example of "waste and inefficency" at BUPA?


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## quarterfloun (14 Oct 2005)

I was NHS in the UK......I was always looked after FOC Free of Charge, Gratis, Nada, Nil, Zero.
Here, 1300 odd to the VHI and a pocketful of 40€ bills!

Still, I'm not complaining, Al Quaeda ain't blowing up Dublin! (or erm....eh...Ballygobeblowed...thats where I live Mr. B. Laden sir......


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## ClubMan (14 Oct 2005)

quarterfloun said:
			
		

> I was NHS in the UK......I was always looked after FOC Free of Charge, Gratis, Nada, Nil, Zero.


Not quite free - presumably paid for by the higher taxes that _UK _workers and businesses pay?


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## scuby (20 Oct 2005)

Why do people always give out about a few quid in the difference between insurance companies when it's your own health you are talking about !! Surely this is more important that going to the pub on a saturday having a few pints or smoking your lungs out and getting your money's worth from either Vivas, vhi or bupa..... if we lived in germany or the US we would be spending a heap more on health insurance, and extra if u smoke, drink or if you do have alot of claims in the year like car insurance.......also Cuchulainn you were on about switching kids onto a cheaper policy, this can be done, the only reason that you may not be able to do it through the wages is that the company you work for will not facilitate this. i had the same prob witha a comp i used to "slave" for, when i left the old job the new company set up 2 pol's, one for myself and her indoors and another for junior...


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