# unscrupulous accountants acting as auditors



## Ants09 (8 Nov 2011)

Hi just a note 

I am a auditor and we get a e-mail from the cro telling us companies who we have signed auditors reports for in the past month.

The last report we got we went down it and notice a name of a company that we know nothing about so we done a bit of investigating and found out that this year and last year we were meant to have signed a audit report for this company.

We notice that another firm of accountants actually submitted the B1 and accounts to the cro and that this firm is not a firm of registered auditors.

The directors of the company have to sign off on these accounts and well love to know there explanation ?


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Nov 2011)

Obviously, report it to the CRO immediately and let them investigate. Someone has submitted a fraudulent return.

Brendan


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## Ants09 (8 Nov 2011)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Obviously, report it to the CRO immediately and let them investigate. Someone has submitted a fraudulent return.
> 
> Brendan



thanks done that before i even put it up on here


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## nai (9 Nov 2011)

OP - how is this one panning out ? sounds like an interesting case.


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## Kerrigan (9 Nov 2011)

Interesting thread.  I know of one accountancy firm (friend uses them) were they bring a set of accounts to trial balance and then submit them to the revenue.  They are not properly auditing the accounts.  Friend hadn't realised this until I pointed it out.  It always baffled me how an auditor was never called upon to sign off the yearly accounts package but yet the accounts were accepted by the revenue.


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## mandelbrot (9 Nov 2011)

Kerrigan said:


> Interesting thread.  I know of one accountancy firm (friend uses them) were they bring a set of accounts to trial balance and then submit them to the revenue.  They are not properly auditing the accounts.  Friend hadn't realised this until I pointed it out.  It always baffled me how an auditor was never called upon to sign off the yearly accounts package but yet the accounts were accepted by the revenue.



What you're describing isn't the same issue at all. Revenue don't require audited accounts for the CT1, and if the company is entitled to the audit exemption then they don't need anything signed off going to the CRO either.

But it is disturbing that what the OP is describing actually happens


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## contemporary (10 Nov 2011)

Ants09 said:


> The directors of the company have to sign off on these accounts and well love to know there explanation ?



Consider this conversation between the accountants and the directors

"My friend Tony works in Ants09 auditors, I'll bring the books down to him and he'll give them the once over and sign off on the audit, he'll want a grand cash though."

and the naive directors hand over their grand and sign the accounts.

I'd be interested in hearing how this pans out too


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## trg (10 Nov 2011)

Not sure if this is the correct thread but it relates to unscrupulous behaviour. 

Basically there is a SME, turnover approx 10m and there are audited accounts but absolutely no audit was done, nothing. 

The TB was done by a part-time bookkeeper and given to a friend of his to sign off on and that was that. So far the fixed assets and WIP are hugely material and both wrong as hell. 

Unbelievable behaviour from the book keeper, the auditor and directors to faciltiate this as they were aware of the goings on. 

The upshot now is that the company is forced to recognise a massive loss in the most recent year and fingers being pointed in all directions. A proper audit is being done at last by new auditors, in the complete absence of prior year files. 

I am sure that decisions were made during the year (bank borrowiing) on the basis of their accounts that were falsely positive.


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## T McGibney (10 Nov 2011)

contemporary said:


> Consider this conversation between the accountants and the directors
> 
> "My friend Tony works in Ants09 auditors, I'll bring the books down to him and he'll give them the once over and sign off on the audit, he'll want a grand cash though."
> 
> ...



Anyone who is foolish enough to sign an illegal audit report (which goes on permanent public record) for 'under the counter' remuneration is risking their career.


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## T McGibney (10 Nov 2011)

trg said:


> Not sure if this is the correct thread but it relates to unscrupulous behaviour.
> 
> Basically there is a SME, turnover approx 10m and there are audited accounts but absolutely no audit was done, nothing.
> 
> ...



Its amazing in the current environment that more cases like this haven't come to light.


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## trg (10 Nov 2011)

I believe its rife among quite small companies where the effect may not be as dramatic but a €10m company!!

Good point TMcG re the risk to their career. I believe in the case I outlined that there is a case for a claim under the auditors PI, negligence leading to increased losses. To be honest I am only speculating but I do know that the company "bought" work in the hope of keeping going as they were not in as bad a position as they thought they were. 

That is foolish practise in itself but common nonetheless and its as a direct result of falsely positive accounts. 

Getting the exact amount of the loss and attributing it to the audited accounts would be tricky and from what I know they would not think it fair to go after the auditor. 

Madness


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## Paddy199 (10 Nov 2011)

Ants09 said:


> Hi just a note
> 
> I am a auditor and we get a e-mail from the cro telling us companies who we have signed auditors reports for in the past month.?


 
How do you apply for this emailed report?


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## DB74 (10 Nov 2011)

You have to be registered as an auditor with the CRO and you get a reference number which you must enter onto the B1 when you file the annual return for the company

Then when a B1 gets filed with your reference number on it you will get an email informing you that a set of audited accounts has been filed under that number

[broken link removed]

My anecdote relates to an audit which we took over and the previous audited accounts which had been filed with the CRO had an auditor's report with a totally fictitious audit firm. They never existed, ever, even as a firm of accountants or bookkeeper or nothing. I even phoned a different auditor who operated in the same town and street as the fictitious auditor for 20+ years and they had never ever heard of this firm. The company directors just had a mobile number for the guy who did the accounts which just rang out when I tried it.


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## DB74 (10 Nov 2011)

Ants09 said:


> We notice that another firm of accountants actually submitted the B1 and accounts to the cro and that this firm is not a firm of registered auditors.



I would be very surprised if you are not obligated to inform that accountant's regulating body over this


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## capnhand (10 Nov 2011)

DB74 said:


> You have to be registered as an auditor with the CRO and you get a reference number which you must enter onto the B1 when you file the annual return for the company
> 
> Then when a B1 gets filed with your reference number on it you will get an email informing you that a set of audited accounts has been filed under that number.



This is interesting as I have never received such an email from the CRO and am registered as an auditor with them, have a CA number etc.

Regards


capnhand


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## Paddy199 (10 Nov 2011)

I too have a CA number, have filed audited accounts and never received any email!


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## Paddy199 (10 Nov 2011)

Is it the email address you put in the B1 or the email address you have registered with the CA number in the CRO thats gets the email?


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## DB74 (10 Nov 2011)

Maybe the CRO don't do it for all audit reports then

I assumed that they did


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## contemporary (10 Nov 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Anyone who is foolish enough to sign an illegal audit report (which goes on permanent public record) for 'under the counter' remuneration is risking their career.



I quite agree but nowadays a lot of people will do things for cash


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## Ants09 (10 Nov 2011)

nai said:


> OP - how is this one panning out ? sounds like an interesting case.



cant say at the moment sorry i just posted it up on here to let people know that people are signing off on audited accounts who are not registered auditors



Paddy199 said:


> How do you apply for this emailed report?



when you submitt a B1 your meant to put your auditor registration number on the B1, once thats done then you will get e-mails from the cro ! if you dont then i would suggest that you phone up the cro and see why your not getting them.



contemporary said:


> Consider this conversation between the accountants and the directors
> 
> "My friend Tony works in Ants09 auditors, I'll bring the books down to him and he'll give them the once over and sign off on the audit, he'll want a grand cash though."
> 
> ...



I can say with confidence that it was not a ex employee or a current employee.



DB74 said:


> I would be very surprised if you are not obligated to inform that accountant's regulating body over this



you are not obligated to inform the accountant's regulating body but you are meant to inform the cro and the odce and then its there duty to investigate it and inform the offending accountants body if they belong to one



Paddy199 said:


> I too have a CA number, have filed audited accounts and never received any email!





Paddy199 said:


> Is it the email address you put in the B1 or the email address you have registered with the CA number in the CRO thats gets the email?





DB74 said:


> Maybe the CRO don't do it for all audit reports then
> 
> I assumed that they did



It is the Auditor Registration Number that you put on the B1 and then you should get a e-mail at the end of the month, if you's dont then i suggest you contact the cro and find out why


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## T McGibney (10 Nov 2011)

Some perspective on this story: http://mcgibney.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/time-runs-out-for-bogus-auditors/


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## contemporary (11 Nov 2011)

Ants09 said:


> I can say with confidence that it was not a ex employee or a current employee.



Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that it was, but that the accountants would use that story as an explanation as to why the auditors company name was there and pocket the cash for themselves


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## DBRAN (11 Nov 2011)

Hi

I contacted the CRO a while ago about why I was not getting the reports and they said I had to get onto my institute (ACCA) as it is the email that they supply that is used to send out the report. (Makes sense too).

I needed to contact ACCA anyway as I needed to change the address of the practice so I contacted them. I was put through to Glasgow and there seemed to be some sort of confusion as to what was the correct format of the form that they are required to send to CRO re the email address of the registered auditor. So they took my details about my change of address and my correct email. My change of address has since gone up on the record of auditors. My email address has not and consequently I do not receive the reports. Very annoying!!

Regards

dbran


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## Ants09 (11 Nov 2011)

contemporary said:


> Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that it was, but that the accountants would use that story as an explanation as to why the auditors company name was there and pocket the cash for themselves



forget about it as knew what you meant actually,


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