# Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve papers



## buzzbird (30 Oct 2009)

I have a debt collector who has called to my rented home on 2 occasions regarding a old debt, 4 years old. 

My husband has answered the door on both occasions and claimed to never of hearing of me. 

The second time he came back he insisted that he knew this was was address, my husband simply closed the door.

My question is does this man have to prove who I am and does he physically have to hand me or my husband the summons to proceed.

Any advice would be great.


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## Taslett (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: debt collector query*

There is another thread in here called "what can a debt collection agency actually do if someone refuses to pay up"   worth a read.

I would write to them and say that you are aware that any third party such as debt collectors/door to door collectors such as themselves have no legal standing in the matter and thus decline to have any dealings with them, tell them you give them no permission to contact you further or you will trea such contact as harrassment and extortion.

This has worked before but I cannot promise it'll work straight away for you, there are legal bodies in here that may say I'm wrong and steer you a different direction, that is my remedy yours may not be the same, just remember they cannot come in your home unless invited. 

Check out that thread!


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## mf1 (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: debt collector query*



Taslett said:


> There is another thread in here called "what can a debt collection agency actually do if someone refuses to pay up"   worth a read, I would write to them and say that you are aware that any third party such as debt collectors/door to door collectors such as themselves have no legal standing in the matter and thus decline to have any dealings with them, tell them you give them no permission to contact you further or you will trea such contact as harrassment and extortion.
> 
> This has worked before but I cannot promise it'll work straight away for you, there are legal bodies in here that may say I'm wrong and steer you a different direction, that is my remedy yours may not be the same, just remember they cannot come in your home unless invited. Check out that thread!!!



What address is she going to put on her letter?

And they are trying to serve a summons on her which she is seeking to avoid - hardly harassment or extortion. 

mf


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## buzzbird (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: debt collector query*

yes sorry, I am trying to avoid getting the summons, I have nothing and know that if i can avoid court for 2 more years I will fall under the statatue of limitations act. So really I wanted to know does the collecter have to hand me the summons as in serve me with it in order for him to proceed?


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## Vanilla (30 Oct 2009)

*Re: debt collector query*

I would think it would be sufficient for the server to serve your husband.


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## bond-007 (31 Oct 2009)

*Re: debt collector query*

Or any adult at the house. Or even substituted service by ordinary post.

I doubt it is a process server as they would have served whoever was there. As said earlier a debt collector has no legal status exceeding that of a private citizen and any implied right to entry a property can be revoked at any time.


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## ajapale (31 Oct 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to proove I live there & physically serve pa*

Ive expanded the title somewhat to more fully reflect the question.

Ill move the question to the forum/subfourm in which  "debt collection" and "debt collection agencies" is discussed.

Banking, Borrowing, Budgeting and Credit Cards


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## Taslett (31 Oct 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

My apologies mf1 and OP, misunderstood that.


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## TheShark (1 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Slightly off-topic but if the surname spelling is incorrect is the summons valid?
I know of someone who has the surname Cxxxx and he received a summons in the name Kxxxx , can he just ignore it?


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## bond-007 (1 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

It would not make much difference as in a civil court mistakes can be rectified easily.
Even if the summons was dismissed a new one could be issued straight away and the process would restart.


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## Maverick.ie (1 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

instead of trying to dodge the bill which you obviously created and have ignored for the past four years why don't you or why didn't you try to get it sorted. Plenty of people have very little money but don't try to hide behind statutes to get them out of debt they at least make an effort to reach an agreement on payment.


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## ajapale (1 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

OT posts removed.


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## Maverick.ie (1 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

ajapale, please also delete my previous post if you feel it to be in appropriate.


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## Luckycharm (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



Maverick.ie said:


> instead of trying to dodge the bill which you obviously created and have ignored for the past four years why don't you or why didn't you try to get it sorted. Plenty of people have very little money but don't try to hide behind statutes to get them out of debt they at least make an effort to reach an agreement on payment.


 
I agree with this- you owe money - you need to make an arrangement to clear the debt!!  They can go for a subservice.


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## Danniboo7 (2 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

When people dodge their bills does it not have a knock on effect regards other people getting credit, interest rates etc


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## within29 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Correct me if I'm wrong but each time he comes knocking on your door a fee is added on to your debt.


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## bond-007 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

That is not allowed. They are not bailiffs as none exist in this country.

If some freelance debt collector wants to waste his time and energy that is his problem.


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## missdaisy (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Hi buzzbird. In my opinion you will not be able to avoid paying this debt for a further two years, nor should you avoid payment.

It sounds as if a debt collector is involved at present but once a solicitor becomes involved you will be successfully served with the Summons. You would be better advised facing up to this now rather than hiding in your home everytime somebody comes to the door. 

If you cannot afford to pay the entire debt in one go an arrangement can be entered into where you would pay €x per month.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Read point 2 on both of these links
http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0/e0b5fdf14c8d3ac980256d2b0046b3d1?OpenDocumenthttp://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0/e0b5fdf14c8d3ac980256d2b0046b3d1?OpenDocument
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1957/en/act/pub/0006/sec0045.html

The company that you owe the money too are trying to contact you therefore advoiding them for two years will not help.

My advice would be contact MABS and have them contact the company to come to a payment plan. This will not go away otherwise.


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## Mr. C.J.H. (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

As this is a case of personal service of a summons on an individual it would seem that this is a High Court matter, as only the High Court rules require personal service. Both Circuit and District merely require a Civil Bill and Civil Summons to be served by registered post. 

Sorry to burst your naive bubble here OP, but what this means is that the High Court Summons has issued, otherwise they couldn't be attempting to serve you. Once a High Court summons has issued the clock stops running for the purposes of the Statute of Limitations, this is also true of the Circuit Court proceedings. So avoiding the summons will not beat the Statute and result in the matter becoming statute barred. 

To further rain or your parade, the next step for the plaintiffs will be to bring an Ex-Parte Motion (i.e. you won't be notified) to the Court for an Order of Substituted Sevice, which are virtually automatically granted, what this means is that the Court will grant permission for the legal proceedings to be served on you by ordinary post. Once sent by post, service is effected and whether you actually receive the proceedings or not doesn't matter. 

If you then choose to ignore the proceedings; judgment in the amount claimed plus legal costs will ultimately be entered against you in your absence (probably 'in the office' without the need for any further Court appearance). Once judgment has been obtained the plaintiff/judgment creditor will then usually proceed to enforce judgment by execution through the County Sheriff who can call to your property and seize your goods, by registration and publication of details of the judgment in the Judgment Office (resulting in publication of your details in Stubbs Gazette and other debtor such trade magazines, websites, etc.), possibly a judgment mortgage against your property (i.e. the conversion of the judgement to a mortgage registered on the title deeds of your property), an installment order and if not complied with maybe committal to prison and possibly even seeking an Order for Sale of your property to discharge the debt.

OP, this is a serious situation and by adopting the osterich approach and burying your head in the sand the matter will only get worse. Go see a solicitor or if you cannot afford one, talk to MABS and/or Free Legal Advice Centre.


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## bond-007 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

The problem is that the OP will not get free legal aid for a debt matter until it reaches the committal stage. Defending a High Court action in this situation is utterly pointless unless you have a cast iron defence and/or you have serious money behind you.


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## missdaisy (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

I don't think this is necessarily a High Court matter. It seems that it is a debt agency trying the serve the OP and this debt agency isn't aware of the legal rules.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



missdaisy said:


> I don't think this is necessarily a High Court matter. It seems that it is a debt agency trying the serve the OP and this debt agency isn't aware of the legal rules.


 

Legal Rules ??


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=122552

Is this about the same issue ?


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## missdaisy (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



scrivere said:


> Legal Rules ??


 
The legal rules with regard to service. Because somebody showed up at the OP's door it is being presumed that it must be a High Court matter because only the High Court requires personal service. 

It seems however that it is a debt collector/agency who don't know that a) you can serve by registered post and b) that you can effect personal service by delivering a copy of the summons to the OP or her husband.


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## bond-007 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



scrivere said:


> Legal Rules ??


Indeed.

High Court rules require personal service of the summons. Now I doubt a debt agency would be entrusted to serve such papers. Normally a process server will be hired to do the serving and by the sounds of it, it was not a process server but a debt collector trying to collect. If it was a bone fide process server he could simply served the husband and it would be good service.



> this debt agency isn't aware of the legal rules.


Many of them are aware but choose the push them to the limit in their activities.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Does the OP know its a debt collection agency or are we presuming that. Did they give your husband any details... contact details etc.


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## Gareth.O (9 Nov 2009)

how many mortgage payments do I have to miss before they can take action


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## Luckycharm (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

The law has changed for the High and circuit courty it does not have to be Registered court agent to serve a summons- someone from the company can now serve the summons.


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## buzzbird (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

thanks for your replies.yes i do know its a debt collection agency not a high court issue.the caller couldnt serve my husband because he claimed not to know me.the summons not only is in my maiden name but also the 1st name is incorrect.surely the collector must prove who i am to serve me,its only a rented house which im moving out off soon,so is it not in my best interest to simply deny been who he says i am..as my ID show a completely different 1st and surname?


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## csirl (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



buzzbird said:


> thanks for your replies.yes i do know its a debt collection agency not a high court issue.the caller couldnt serve my husband because he claimed not to know me.the summons not only is in my maiden name but also the 1st name is incorrect.surely the collector must prove who i am to serve me,its only a rented house which im moving out off soon,so is it not in my best interest to simply deny been who he says i am..as my ID show a completely different 1st and surname?


 


You say that the person who called was a debt collector, yet you refer to a "summons". This doesnt make sense. 

Either its a "debt collector" requesting that you pay your bills OR its a process server serving a summons. Both are two entirely different things and are dealt with in different ways. 

If it is a process server, you husband should be aware that he is commiting an offence by pretending not to know you. If this is raised at a later date, then you'll get no sympathy from the Judge or worse.


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## buzzbird (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

sorry didnt realise there was a difference,registered letters came to the house which we refused to sign so im presuming its a debt collector trying to issue me with these letters.i go by a different name to my birth cert and the loans was issued in the incorrect name,this is the name he's trying to contact..so how do i handle it if its a debt collector and not a summons


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## bond-007 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

You can tell a debt collector to go away. They have no legal powers to compel you to do anything.

It won't stop a summons though.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

What name was on the loan ? Thats the name they will use to contact you ? If you have since changed your name it will make no differance. Its still you.

Can I ask why you are advoiding this ? Other than you don't/can't pay. But surely contacting the company and agreeing to pay something is better than worrying.


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## buzzbird (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

yes the name on the loan is the name their trying to contact me on.the reason i'm avoiding it is my icb report never got tarnished with the name confusion,strange i know but im hardly going to inform them.i dont have any money to repay the loan it was a business that went very wrong and since then live very moderately.i barely survive as it is without having to pay more money out.since the debt 4 years ago i've moved alot and since got married so i was never contacted about the debt untill now.at the time i got advise from a solicitor who advised me to avoid them as long as i could until the statue ran up


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## Bronte (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

So only 730 days to go, you need the debt clock just for you but at a reducting amount so 729 tomorrow.  In the meantime don't buy any assets.   And is it worth the worry, if you haven't the means to pay then they can't get blood from a stone.  If they know you have nothing they may leave you alone?  They must though be on to you if they've tracked you to your current rented address of many?


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## bond-007 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

Indeed.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

I really think that you need to get advise from a sols or maybe free legal advise. The statue time has not even started to "tick" if they company/bank are attempting to contact you. It only starts when they stop attempting to contact you.   Did the sols who told you to ignore it until the statue was up put that in writing... it's mad to thing a prof would give that advise.

Is this the same loan as in the last Thread you had... If it is the bank seem intent on following up on the loan. I can't see it going away. 

The fact that your ICB is not effected is not the only thing you need to worry about. You will end up in court and the Judge will be aware of the history of the bank trying to locate you. You can still go to Jail for non payment of a loan.


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## buzzbird (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

how can i go to jail according to solicitor this is not possible as i hav'nt broken any laws.i went to the bank at the start and asked them to consolidate my loans and i offered to pay a small amount every week,they refused this offer and actually tried putting up the repayments so i stood in the managers office and told him that i wouldnt be able to pay it,never heard from them since,not even to my parents address or any other address they had for me.


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## scrivere (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

It happens 
[broken link removed]

Maybe I am missing something.. as I am not a sols and if they are telling you that you have done nothing wrong then..

However if you borrow money you need to pay it back.. 

When you say you never heard from them... in last thread you said you were served with a suimmons and now you are saying debt collectors are at you door. Is this not them trying to contact you.


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## csirl (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



> how can i go to jail according to solicitor this is not possible as i hav'nt broken any laws.


 
You can go to jail for obstructing the legal process or for refusing to abide by a court order.

The fact that any summons issued may be in your maiden name or your given name isnt a defence - if its obvious that the summons is for you, even if it has mistakes or out of date information on it, then you have to accept it.

I'm guessing that in this case, the bank is aware that they must act before the debt becomes statute barred. Debt collector may be the first stage - they are using this service as proof that they made reasonable efforts to contact you to put in place a repayment plan. Next stage will be going to legal action. If they've managed to go to the trouble of tracing you in spite of change of name and many changes of address, they are obviously persuing this seriously and are certain that they've found you.


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## Luckycharm (10 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

They can go for a subservice, judgement, installment order, committal if you make no appearances or attempt to pay. Great advice from your solicitor sometimes I wonder why Solicitors are held with so much higher esteem in this country then say in the States


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## mf1 (10 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*

"Great advice from your solicitor sometimes I wonder why Solicitors are held with so much higher esteem in this country then say in the States"

Very often what is reported as being solicitor's advice is words that the poster wishes their solicitor had said and given that the solicitor is not given any opportunity to refute posters statements................ 

mf


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## Luckycharm (10 Nov 2009)

*Re: Debt Collector at door. Does he have to prove I live there & physically serve pap*



mf1 said:


> "Great advice from your solicitor sometimes I wonder why Solicitors are held with so much higher esteem in this country then say in the States"
> 
> Very often what is reported as being solicitor's advice is words that the poster wishes their solicitor had said and given that the solicitor is not given any opportunity to refute posters statements................
> 
> mf


 
In my line of work I deal with Solicitors every day and to be honest what was quoted would not surprise me. My sister and brother in law are both Sols before you think I have some agenda against Solicitors but there are bad eggs in every profession and Solicitors are definetly no different.


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