# New RTE programme "How to be Good with Money"



## Brendan Burgess

Starting next Thursday 10th at 8.30 on RTE One.

https://www.rte.ie/tv/programmes/1020162-how-to-be-good-with-money/

In each episode, Eoin helps a household with their finances. Some will be struggling, others less so, but all will have a clear financial goal or aspiration. Eoin will also provide viewers with accessible and incredibly useful hints and tips on personal finance.

Eoin has already been seen giving money advice in RTÉ Two’s This Crowded House with his positive and practical approach to personal finance. He is a regular contributor to national radio and other media, and is a certified CFP and qualified QFA, running his own business, Prosperous Financial Planning.

Across the series he’ll meet six very different households – a mix of families in financial trouble, or those facing a big financial outlay – a much-needed renovation, an early retirement, a house or a dream holiday. He’ll find out about the household’s financial issues and observe their current behaviours, spending and circumstance. Eoin will do a full financial audit and present the household with a clear financial plan to achieve their goal. Over the next few months he will follow the ups and downs as the household attempts to implement the plan.

*Episode 1*

In the first episode of the series, Eoin meets Kerri and Brian from Cork. They wonder if they’ll ever be able to save enough for big things like holidays, cars or even their own home – which is their long-term goal.

Kerri is a guidance counsellor and Brian teaches business, but even they find it hard to stick to a budget. They love spending cash socialising with friends and family – especially with so many good foodie destinations on their doorstep – yet struggle to remember where exactly their money goes each month. And with a family wedding coming up in the US, they would love to be able to go without getting into more debt. But one thing the couple are adamant about is that getting help from a financial planner "won’t make them tight."


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## Bronte

Never heard of him. Does he write in the newspapers? I hope he’s not the new Eddie Hobbs.


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Bronte

Yes he contributes to radio programmes and sometimes writes  in the Sindo.  I have never heard him, so I don't know his presenting style. 

It's produced by the same production company as produced Eddie Hobbs' Show me the Money so I would imagine that it will be the same "entertainment" type show.  But that is what people want. They are not interested in programmes actually about money.

Brendan


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## azerogo

Always the same format, don't know where their money is going, keep a money diary for a month, shocked at unnecessary spending, vow to improve.

Rinse and repeat.


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## Cervelo

I think Eoin is meeting Kerri and Brian from cuckoo land going by the last paragraph


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## Easeler

Thanks brendan i liked him on crowded house could be a good show.


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## Black_Knight

Thursday 10th, or Friday 11th?


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## Brendan Burgess

Thursday 10th


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## noproblem

Of course it's going to be popular with the huge no of "tell me what to do, life's so difficult" people we have all over the country. There's already a thread on here about the price of chips, coffee, tea, etc and how expensive it has become. However, a large no of the people who say they can't cope financially, etc, etc, tend to spend lots of time drinking and eating these very products, not at home, but in the places they'll be seen spending what they don't really have and discussing with their coffee partner how everyone else is able to do this and how unfair that is. Afterwards they go outside and have a puff off whatever is the order of the day @ €12 a pack. Easy enough for them to pay for this every day, simply take it from where ever there's a kitty to pay bills and just make that bill bigger and let them wait, or god forbid there's an inkling in the media that it won't need to be paid if they've got a sob story. 

Thankfully we have a radio and tv broadcaster in Ireland who loves them, spreads their silly gospel on air about how cruel and difficult it is for them. No doubt at all we'll be introduced to quite a few of these. Yes, I do know there are cases where people have fallen on hard times and all that and help is indeed really needed, but the airheads out there who think we should be paying for their lifestyle on a permanent basis? Don't get me started.


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## Easeler

Noproblem my local public house would be a very dull and probbably closed pub with out these people, in fairness they spend it locally and as soon as they get it.


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## noproblem

galwaypat said:


> Noproblem my local public house would be a very dull and probbably closed pub with out these people, in fairness they spend it locally and as soon as they get it.



Ha ha, exactly. Down the drain and tomorrow's another day. Who cares?


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## llgon

noproblem said:


> but the airheads out there who think we should be paying for their lifestyle on a permanent basis? Don't get me started.



In fairness those taking part in this programme are surely recognising that their spending habits are part of a problem and are taking steps to rectify this.

My concern would be why a guidance counsellor and teacher of business studies need to take part. Between them should they not have these skills already?


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## Brendan Burgess

I have just seen a trailer and it doesn't look great.
Brendan


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## PGF2016

Brendan Burgess said:


> They love spending cash socialising with friends and family – especially with so many good foodie destinations on their doorstep – yet struggle to remember where exactly their money goes each month. And with a family wedding coming up in the US, they would love to be able to go without getting into more debt. But one thing the couple are adamant about is that getting help from a financial planner "won’t make them tight."


I despair for these idiots already.


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## Bronte

PGF2016 said:


> I despair for these idiots already.



Do they get paid for doing the show.  Imagine showing the entire country how bad you are with money.  Two good jobs, and they don't even have savings to pay for a holiday, never mind a car or house.

An inlaw of mine has been invited to a wedding in Italy.  In the middle of nowhere. And she can't stay at the venue.  The husband is refusing to go because of the costs and loss of work days.  Two flights, rent a car, pay for accommodation, wedding present, and back to Ireland again.  Crazy idea to have weddings abroad in a difficult to get to location putting crazy costs on guests. And all for a one or two night getaway.  Best friends daughter.


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## Brendan Burgess

I think that the programme is feeding into the Money Diary Phenomenon 

After the programme on Thursday, we will be all outraged at the wastefulness of these people. And it will be covered in the Twitter and water cooler discussions. 

If Sarenco, Red, SnowyB and I did a series covering health insurance, choosing a mortgage, reviewing your mortgage, break fees, buy to lets, inheritance tax planning etc., it would have a much smaller audience and would engender little discussion. 

Brendan


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## PGF2016

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think that the programme is feeding into the Money Diary Phenomenon
> 
> After the programme on Thursday, we will be all outraged at the wastefulness of these people. And it will be covered in the Twitter and water cooler discussions.
> 
> If Sarenco, Red, SnowyB and I did a series covering health insurance, choosing a mortgage, reviewing your mortgage, break fees, buy to lets, inheritance tax planning etc., it would have a much smaller audience and would engender little discussion.
> 
> Brendan


Are you sure? Have you pitched it to RTE / TV3 (Virgin?). Could schedule it for before / after Operation Transformation. Call it Operation Financial Transformation.


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## PGF2016

Bronte said:


> Do they get paid for doing the show.  Imagine showing the entire country how bad you are with money.  Two good jobs, and they don't even have savings to pay for a holiday, never mind a car or house.
> .


My original comment was very harsh but comes from frustration with friends in similar predicaments and with similar mindsets. Would prefer to remain poor than to be thought of as tight with money. Have no problem looking down on people who life modestly but well and have a few euros in the bank.


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## Brendan Burgess

PGF2016 said:


> Have no problem looking down on people who life modestly but well and have a few euros in the bank.



That is awful. I wonder how common it is?


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## POC

I like these types of programmes. As well as addressing finances for the participants, they also help with life choices and priorities. Buy or rent / going back to college / expensive child care or full time mum etc. 
Sometimes people can't see the woods for the trees, and an outsider can help. No doubt many of the viewers will pick up some tips too. Eoin was good in A Crowded House. It's not just about spending diaries, he had lots of knowledge and advice on grants, financial services, credit history. 
Even if this type of show seems like Same Old Same Old info to some people, especially older financially savvy people - there will be plenty of people for whom this info is either new, or newly relevant.
Operation Transformation starts again this week too. It's not just about eat less, exercise more. Maybe some people also think this is a Rinse and Repeat type show. But it changes health, fitness and life expectancy for people who make the decision to engage with it each year.


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## Blackrock1

Bronte said:


> Do they get paid for doing the show.  Imagine showing the entire country how bad you are with money.  Two good jobs, and they don't even have savings to pay for a holiday, never mind a car or house.
> 
> An inlaw of mine has been invited to a wedding in Italy.  In the middle of nowhere. And she can't stay at the venue.  The husband is refusing to go because of the costs and loss of work days.  Two flights, rent a car, pay for accommodation, wedding present, and back to Ireland again.  Crazy idea to have weddings abroad in a difficult to get to location putting crazy costs on guests. And all for a one or two night getaway.  Best friends daughter.



surely people are free to get married wherever they want, if anything it helps thin out the crowd coming so you get people who really want to be there as opposed to people coming because they think they should.


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## Steven Barrett

Brendan Burgess said:


> That is awful. I wonder how common it is?



Not quite people looking down on others, but it a regular occurrence that I talk with people who earn very good incomes but have no assets outside of their family home and the mandatory pension scheme that they are in. From the outside they are wealthy but they have nothing else. They are wholly reliant on an ability to earn even as they near retirement age. 

The Americans calls it all hat, no cattle. We are a bit cruder with Fur coat, no knickers  

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## odyssey06

Blackrock1 said:


> surely people are free to get married wherever they want, if anything it helps thin out the crowd coming so you get people who really want to be there as opposed to people coming because they think they should.



Of course they are free to do so, but if the destination is so important it would be more reasonable to just elope and have a party at home. Sure you might drop a few people who don't want to attend, but you're also dropping the people who can't make it because they don't have the time or money to dedicate to such a junket.
Fair enough if it's being held abroad because the bride or groom is from there, but otherwise, it seems a bit cheeky at times and thoughtless to guests.


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## Blackrock1

odyssey06 said:


> Of course they are free to do so, but if the destination is so important it would be more reasonable to just elope and have a party at home. Sure you might drop a few people who don't want to attend, but you're also dropping the people who can't make it because they don't have the time or money to dedicate to such a junket.
> Fair enough if it's being held abroad because the bride or groom is from there, but otherwise, it seems a bit cheeky at times and thoughtless to guests.



i would have thought that the wishes of the people getting married were more important than anyone else. if people want to attend then great and if they cant thats fine too.


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## michaelm

I expect the money program to be throwaway, like other such programmes from RTE.  Those actually wanting to get a handle on their finances would be better to get one of the personal/family finance books (<€15 or free in the library).  

Re weddings: Foreign wedding are the best as they are the easiest to get out of.  My policy is to never go to a wedding I can reasonably get out of.


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## Brendan Burgess

michaelm said:


> My policy is to never go to a wedding I can reasonably get out of.



That sounds like a great idea for an alternative programme. 

People not doing what they are expected to do but don't want to.

If I pitch the programme to RTE would you appear on it and explain your approach to attending weddings? 

Brendan


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## Blackrock1

michaelm said:


> My policy is to never go to a wedding I can reasonably get out of.



a good policy if you dont mind me saying


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## michaelm

I also apply that policy to meetings.


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## Blackrock1

SBarrett said:


> Not quite people looking down on others, but it a regular occurrence that I talk with people who earn very good incomes but have no assets outside of their family home and the mandatory pension scheme that they are in. From the outside they are wealthy but they have nothing else. They are wholly reliant on an ability to earn even as they near retirement age.
> 
> The Americans calls it all hat, no cattle. We are a bit cruder with Fur coat, no knickers
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie



Steven

what assets do you think people like that should have? and at what stage should they have them?


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## so-crates

POC said:


> I like these types of programmes. As well as addressing finances for the participants, they also help with life choices and priorities. Buy or rent / going back to college / expensive child care or full time mum etc.
> Sometimes people can't see the woods for the trees, and an outsider can help. No doubt many of the viewers will pick up some tips too. Eoin was good in A Crowded House. It's not just about spending diaries, he had lots of knowledge and advice on grants, financial services, credit history.
> Even if this type of show seems like Same Old Same Old info to some people, especially older financially savvy people - there will be plenty of people for whom this info is either new, or newly relevant.
> Operation Transformation starts again this week too. It's not just about eat less, exercise more. Maybe some people also think this is a Rinse and Repeat type show. But it changes health, fitness and life expectancy for people who make the decision to engage with it each year.


I'd agree, I thought he was personable, reasonable, fair and knowledgeable on A Crowded House. He delivered some difficult messages without coming across as being judgemental and treated the finances of 18 year olds with the same professional and courteous approach as those of more bankable individuals or couples.

Simple messages that deliver results are obvious but these things also bear repetition. Very often they may be simple in concept but quite onerous and challenging in execution, especially where the results are incremental over time. It requires discipline. Just because you know that leaving down the box of chocolates will help your waistline in the long run doesn't mean you won't have just one more out of the pile of sweets there. Repeating the message helps people achieve discipline. Showing people what to do helps people start on what can be a quite arduous path. Doing it over a series reinforces the lesson not just for the subjects but also for the audience.


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## Steven Barrett

Blackrock1 said:


> Steven
> 
> what assets do you think people like that should have? and at what stage should they have them?



It's not just about the assets, it's the mindset. Wealthy people lead frugal lifestyles; spending less than they earn and saving the rest. They are used to not having to earn lots of money to live because they've been living on less than they bring in for most of their working life. The money that is saved, can be invested in pensions, equities, property (if that's their thing), cash. 

A lot of high earners feel that their lifestyle has to reflect their high paying occupation. They are then reliant on their high salary and need to bring in that level of income to continue to enjoy their lifestyle. I have yet to meet someone who earns a high salary but doesn't work for it. As they get older, it gets harder but they have to keep on working to maintain that level of income. 

Then there's the kids. They too grow up in a consumption lifestyle and get used to having everything. But they may not be as successful as their parents. But after being brought up in a consumption household, they still want things so who do they go to when they want something they can't afford? More pressure to continue to earn because now they have to fund their adult children too. 

It's not just what kind of assets should I have. Do you have the mindset to be wealthy? Spend less than you earn, not keeping up with the Joneses, setting budgets, keeping plans up to date, using capital markets to grow your wealth. If you work on all of these, you will achieve financial independence. 


Steven
[broken link removed]


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## Blackrock1

SBarrett said:


> It's not just about the assets, it's the mindset. Wealthy people lead frugal lifestyles; spending less than they earn and saving the rest. They are used to not having to earn lots of money to live because they've been living on less than they bring in for most of their working life. The money that is saved, can be invested in pensions, equities, property (if that's their thing), cash.
> 
> A lot of high earners feel that their lifestyle has to reflect their high paying occupation. They are then reliant on their high salary and need to bring in that level of income to continue to enjoy their lifestyle. I have yet to meet someone who earns a high salary but doesn't work for it. As they get older, it gets harder but they have to keep on working to maintain that level of income.
> 
> Then there's the kids. They too grow up in a consumption lifestyle and get used to having everything. But they may not be as successful as their parents. But after being brought up in a consumption household, they still want things so who do they go to when they want something they can't afford? More pressure to continue to earn because now they have to fund their adult children too.
> 
> It's not just what kind of assets should I have. Do you have the mindset to be wealthy? Spend less than you earn, not keeping up with the Joneses, setting budgets, keeping plans up to date, using capital markets to grow your wealth. If you work on all of these, you will achieve financial independence.
> 
> 
> Steven
> [broken link removed]



thanks i get all of that, i suppose what i would counter against it, generally the more you earn, the more stress is in involved, and if spending some of the money gives you some sort of enjoyment then you should do it.

also, you cant take it with you, so you have to temper the desire to be wealthy into your old age with enjoying it while you can!


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## PGF2016

Blackrock1 said:


> thanks i get all of that, i suppose what i would counter against it, generally the more you earn, the more stress is in involved, and if spending some of the money gives you some sort of enjoyment then you should do it.
> 
> also, you cant take it with you, so you have to temper the desire to be wealthy into your old age with enjoying it while you can!


Steven never said you shouldn't spend money for enjoyment so that's not really a point that needs to be countered. 

Also, you can of course enjoy yourself without spending money.


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## Blackrock1

PGF2016 said:


> Steven never said you shouldn't spend money for enjoyment so that's not really a point that needs to be countered.
> 
> Also, you can of course enjoy yourself without spending money.



its alluded to:

Wealthy people lead frugal lifestyles

And i didnt argue that you need to spend money to enjoy yourself, so that's not really a point that needs to be countered....


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## Steven Barrett

Blackrock1 said:


> thanks i get all of that, i suppose what i would counter against it, generally the more you earn, the more stress is in involved, and *if spending some of the money gives you some sort of enjoyment* then you should do it.
> 
> also, you cant take it with you, so you have to temper the desire to be wealthy into your old age with enjoying it while you can!



I was talking about where people spend all of what they earn and don't save any of it. I never said anything about spending some of your money. When I work with clients, I always ask them what brings them enjoyment and I don't question their spending money on these things (unless it's something they clearly can't afford). 



Blackrock1 said:


> also, you cant take it with you, so you have to temper the desire to be wealthy into your old age with enjoying it while you can!



No, you can't. But unless you are unlucky, you will live until c. 80 years of age. If you accumulate wealth, you can stop working earlier and enjoy retirement. Instead of continuing to work because you have no savings. 

I'm not advocating living like a hermit and not enjoying life, but be sensible about things. If you are a high earner, you should be putting money away each month for the future, not blowing it all on an expensive lifestyle that will come to an end when you stop working. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Blackrock1

SBarrett said:


> I was talking about where people spend all of what they earn and don't save any of it. I never said anything about spending some of your money. When I work with clients, I always ask them what brings them enjoyment and I don't question their spending money on these things (unless it's something they clearly can't afford).
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't. But unless you are unlucky, you will live until c. 80 years of age. If you accumulate wealth, you can stop working earlier and enjoy retirement. Instead of continuing to work because you have no savings.
> 
> I'm not advocating living like a hermit and not enjoying life, but be sensible about things. If you are a high earner, you should be putting money away each month for the future, not blowing it all on an expensive lifestyle that will come to an end when you stop working.
> 
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie



makes sense, we all ridicule footballers that do it, given the short earning window they have, but i suppose it extends to all, albeit over a long time frame.


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## Gordon Gekko

It’s all about balance really. I don’t see the point in working hard if you can’t blow money occasionally. Recently, a couple of us decided on a whim to treat ourselves to corporate hospitality at a big Premier League game. The opposite of frugal, but as far as I know everyone is making AVCs and overpaying their mortgage. The money could have been used to pay down the mortgages or to buy prizebonds or ETFs, but you’ve got to have a bit of craic as well. Otherwise, what’s the point? You just become a debt-servicing / next generation’s wealth creating machine.


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## Buddyboy

Speaking of the next generations wealth creating machine.....
A friend of mine, who has no children, went with his wife to a solicitor to make their wills.  The solicitor asked if they have any children or dependants.  When he answered in the negative, the solicitor said, "well, if you give it to anyone else, a lot of it will be gobbled up in inheritance tax, so my advice to you is spend, spend, spend". 
A bit tongue in cheek, but there's a grain of truth in it.

Personally, I have always spent less than I earn, when I was earning £40 a week (£37 after tax) to when I was earning €70k a year.  It's a mindset I got into and I never felt hard done by.  I think that is the (open) secret, it's the mindset that's key. Without that, you end up on programs like the one we're talking about.


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## Steven Barrett

Buddyboy said:


> Speaking of the next generations wealth creating machine.....
> A friend of mine, who has no children, went with his wife to a solicitor to make their wills.  The solicitor asked if they have any children or dependants.  When he answered in the negative, the solicitor said, "well, if you give it to anyone else, a lot of it will be gobbled up in inheritance tax, s*o my advice to you is spend, spend, spend*".
> A bit tongue in cheek, but there's a grain of truth in it.
> 
> Personally, I have always spent less than I earn, when I was earning £40 a week (£37 after tax) to when I was earning €70k a year.  It's a mindset I got into and I never felt hard done by.  I think that is the (open) secret, it's the mindset that's key. Without that, you end up on programs like the one we're talking about.



The problem is, when is our last day? If we knew that, we could plan with some certainty. Using the average isn't a great indicator either as you may be one of those who lives too long. 

Then there's planning for nursing home care. Plenty of people shift assets out of their name so they can get the State to foot the bill of their care home. But you have to do this at least 5 years in advance, or else they can come after that money. Difficult to plan that 5 years in advance...if you even need to go to a nursing home at all. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Grizzly

Blackrock1 said:


> also, you cant take it with you, so you have to temper the desire to be wealthy into your old age with enjoying it while you can!


We have been frugal enough during our life allowing us to retire in our mid 50's. Neither of us smoke and drink lightly. We have a decent amount of money in the bank, shares, prize bonds and tied up in our house.
Believe it or not we actually find it difficult to spend our money. We have about 6 holidays a year. I find that I watch both the Aer Lingus & Ryanair websites waiting for their prices to come to me. I check hotel prices etc, Use the supermarket discount vouchers, switch around utilities and health insurance. Neither of us are in to designer clothes, expensive hairdressers, bling.
We sometimes splurge as Gordon recommends and slowly we are getting more used to letting the purse strings loose. It can actually be difficult. This year we will enjoy a better grade of hotel room and pay for the "sea view" type of thing. We are also getting used to paying a little more for the more convenient flight times than the early a.m. flights.
I do despair when I read the end of year tips for saving money that are copied and pasted every year in the newspapers. Some of them are so obvious I often wonder how people can be so bad with money.


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## michaelm

Buddyboy said:


> Speaking of the next generations wealth creating machine.....


I expect to have to decide at some point whether to retire early or to continue earning in order to help out my adult children.  Tricky.


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## Laughahalla

I was very like these people in the show..."was"..
It's a lack of financial maturity in my opinion. People need to get honest with themselves and realise that they are broke if they have to resort to credit cards and loans to finance their lifestyle.

Adults must act responsibly and devise a plan to protect their family financially and follow the plan. Children do what feels good. "Dave Ramsey"
These people are still acting like children.

Stop taking on consumer debt. (save for what you need)
Pay off consumer debt smallest to largest (snowball it as quick as possible)
Build 3-6 months of cash
Contribute to pension - at least 15% of income
Save for childrens college education
Pay off mortgage
Invest/build wealth


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## Laughahalla

Blackrock1 said:


> surely people are free to get married wherever they want, if anything it helps thin out the crowd coming so you get people who really want to be there as opposed to people coming because they think they should.



You get the people who can afford to go or the people who feel pressured to go into debt to go. You will also have people who want to go but cannot afford to go.


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## Steven Barrett

michaelm said:


> I expect to have to decide at some point whether to retire early or to continue earning in order to help out my adult children.  Tricky.



Most of my financial planning clients put in an amount for helping their client children financially. It is not restricted to Ireland either. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Laughahalla

michaelm said:


> I expect to have to decide at some point whether to retire early or to continue earning in order to help out my adult children.  Tricky.



If you teach your children to be responsible with money you will never have to help your adult children out financially. By all means pay for their education but after that the next time I would give them money would be through an inheritance.


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## michaelm

I would only consider helping out the responsible ones, perhaps towards a house deposit or some such.


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## Steven Barrett

Laughahalla said:


> If you teach your children to be responsible with money you will never have to help your adult children out financially. By all means pay for their education but after that the next time I would give them money would be through an inheritance.



What if your child decides they want to be a nurse, starting on a salary of €23,000 or they want to work in child care and don't earn much over minimum wage? No matter how responsible they are with their money, they will struggle with getting on the property market. I am all for teaching your kids to be financially independent and not enabling them but if it does not put a parent's future happiness at risk, it is ok to help them out. As Michael said, for the responsible ones. 

I would also question not giving your kids money until you die. First of all, you get no enjoyment from being able to help your kids out financially. After all, you're dead at that stage. Being able to help your kids buy their first home would bring a huge amount of joy to a parent. And second, your kids are likely to be in their 50s/60s by the time they get the inheritance. Their need for money is decades before then when they are trying to get a deposit for a home and/or paying for child care as well as all the new costs that have come with having a kid. 

If you are happy that your kids have the right work ethic and appreciate the help, I don't see any problem with helping them out with a deposit. Not the kids who want their parents to subsidise their lifestyle (in a lot of these cases, it's the parents consumption lifestyle that has lead to this, see earlier post). 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Firefly

SBarrett said:


> If you are happy that your kids have the right work ethic and appreciate the help, I don't see any problem with helping them out with a deposit.



I agree 100% with this. The way things are going it will be almost impossible for anyone leaving 3rd level to save enough (whilst paying high rents) to buy somewhere. At least with a deposit they can start paying down the mortgage straight away


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## Gordon Gekko

Laughahalla said:


> If you teach your children to be responsible with money you will never have to help your adult children out financially. By all means pay for their education but after that the next time I would give them money would be through an inheritance.



That just isn’t true.

If one of my kids wants to do something that is of value to society but underpaid relative to other roles (e.g. nurse or primary school teacher), on their own they will struggle to buy a nice house in a decent area.

Like some of Steven’s clients, we hope to be there to help in such circumstances.

Hard to see how that suggests them not being responsible with money.


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## RETIRED2017

Laughahalla said:


> If you teach your children to be responsible with money you will never have to help your adult children out financially. By all means pay for their education but after that the next time I would give them money would be through an inheritance.


At the time you are retiring It may be worth looking to see if you have Inheritance money tied up in your pension ,Worth looking at taking extra out at 20% rate and feeding it into kids pension pot while there are good tax breaks Inheritance left in an ARF will be taxed at 30% I suspect long term it will not go lower and tax breaks may be gone or lowered I suspect in the future,

It can be invested into funds with a higher return seeing any drop will have plenty of time to recover,

As far as i am concerned  Helping/giving kids money In Ireland at present to buy a home is a fools game
 in most cases Only pushing up prices cancelling out any advantage by doing so in a rising market,

It may make some sense To do so for a starter home once you move up into higher priced houses I suspect it gets cancelled out and wasted,


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## RETIRED2017

Firefly said:


> I agree 100% with this. The way things are going it will be almost impossible for anyone leaving 3rd level to save enough (whilst paying high rents) to buy somewhere. At least with a deposit they can start paying down the mortgage straight away


If they are able to start paying down there mortgage straight away the may not need it as much as you think, I suspect making sure the start a pension would be a better investment of Inheritance money,

Sooner than later we are going to see people questioning how some young people have an advantage over others being helped out with tax free money held in pension schemes,

Buying a house is something achieved over many years of gradual paying it off , Likewise a pension in retirement is something most will  achieved gradually over your working life,

In Ireland some think you should be able to do the above almost overnight,

If we are honest with our self that is how it is done in other EU Countries why do some Irish people expect to be able to achieve the above almost overnight there has to be a mismatch going on some where in the Irish system,

Do you remember Leo assertion that it is commonplace for middle Ireland's first-time house buyers to take there deposit from the Bank of Mom and Dad and the reaction it generated,


----------



## elcato

SBarrett said:


> What if your child decides they want to be a nurse, starting on a salary of €23,000 or they want to work in child care and don't earn much over minimum wage? No matter how responsible they are with their money, they will struggle with getting on the property market.


No offence but this is the root of the oirish psych now. Do you think we all started off on 50k a year before now and managed to buy houses before we were 25 ?
Retired2017 above has written it a bit more eloquently than me though


----------



## Brendan Burgess

I see that the CCPC are sponsoring it.  They really use our taxpayers' money very well. It must be marginally better than chasing restaurants who confiscate the booking fees of people who book but don't show up. 

*FINE TUNE YOUR FINANCES IN 2019*



·        *CCPC announces new sponsorship of RTÉ Show ‘How to be Good with Money’*

·        *Series features six real-life households dealing with different financial challenges*



*10 January 2019 *For many of us, the new year brings new resolutions and this year, TV viewers have the opportunity to learn how to transform their finances, as RTÉ airs a new personal finance show ‘How to be Good with Money.’ This new series, which is sponsored by the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), will provide a real-life insight into the financial challenges of six households across Ireland, all of who have different financial goals. Each week, financial planner Eoin McGee will help a household get to grips with their financial situation, whether it’s tackling credit card debt or getting mortgage ready.


Speaking at the commencement of this new financial education programme, Isolde Goggin, Chair of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission said, “Recently, we published Ireland’s first ever financial well-being survey, which gave extensive insights on how people are managing their day to day and long term finances. It was encouraging to see that as a whole, people in Ireland are doing reasonably well in terms of general financial well-being.  But life is inherently unpredictable and our research also showed that many people have low levels of resilience for the future, including in retirement.”


“As the New Year begins it is a great opportunity for us all to take stock of our finances and identify where we can make some changes, both now and over time, to improve our financial well-being. We are delighted to have the opportunity to partner with RTÉ, to sponsor this new programme which, through real life situations, will provide viewers with practical tips and advice on how they can fine tune their finances in 2019. Through our website, ccpc.ie, we provide a range of independent information and tools to help people chose financial products and manage their money. Our comparison tools are of particular help, as they allow consumers to compare the rates, charges and features of financial products available on the market, including mortgages, loans, credit cards, current accounts and savings accounts. Consumers can then use this information to get the product that best suits their needs and often save themselves some money too.”


How to be Good with Money will air Thursdays on RTÉ One at 8:30pm from 10 January.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

elcato said:


> No offence but this is the root of the oirish psych now. Do you think we all started off on 50k a year before now and managed to buy houses before we were 25 ?
> Retired2017 above has written it a bit more eloquently than me though



I don’t think hyperbole serves any purpose here. Many of these people don’t start on €50k, they finish on it, if they’re lucky.

And I wouldn’t propose helping to buy a sub-25 year old a house; 30ish perhaps.


----------



## Delboy

Gordon Gekko said:


> If one of my kids wants to do something that is of value to society but underpaid relative to other roles (e.g. nurse or primary school teacher), on their own they will struggle to buy a nice house in a decent area.


Where does this stuff come from about teachers/nurses/guards being underpaid! The average nurse's salary in Ireland is €57k. Teachers aren't far off that when they reach top of the scale also and have tremendous holidays/work hours.
And lets not even start on the pensions which somehow always seem to be forgotten about!


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Delboy said:


> Where does this stuff come from about teachers/nurses/guards being underpaid! The average nurse's salary in Ireland is €57k. Teachers aren't far off that when they reach top of the scale also and have tremendous holidays/work hours.
> And lets not even start on the pensions which somehow always seem to be forgotten about!



Where did I say that they’re underpaid?

Note my use of the term “relative”.


----------



## Blackrock1

Delboy said:


> Where does this stuff come from about teachers/nurses/guards being underpaid! The average nurse's salary in Ireland is €57k. Teachers aren't far off that when they reach top of the scale also and have tremendous holidays/work hours.
> And lets not even start on the pensions which somehow always seem to be forgotten about!



its not that they are underpaid, but they are underpaid to live in Dublin. For most people id say live elsewhere but for people that we need i.e. nurses, teachers, police, ambulance workers etc i have a different view. Actually thats where i think social housing should be targetted, or at least the social houses that form part of private estates.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Who looks after the aircraft leasing, finance, legal, or tech person when they fall ill? Who teaches their kids?

In urban areas with substandard public transport, we have major issues with affordability for people who pursue noble but lowly paid careers.

It’s a long time before a teacher/nurse/guard is on €57k a year.


----------



## Delboy

Gordon Gekko said:


> Where did I say that they’re underpaid?
> 
> Note my use of the term “relative”.


With the word underpaid before it


----------



## PGF2016

Blackrock1 said:


> its not that they are underpaid, but they are underpaid to live in Dublin. For most people id say live elsewhere but for people that we need i.e. nurses, teachers, police, ambulance workers etc i have a different view. Actually thats where i think social housing should be targetted, or at least the social houses that form part of private estates.


Excellent idea. Could this be worked into a policy and is there any group across the political spectrum that would oppose it?


----------



## Delboy

PGF2016 said:


> Excellent idea. Could this be worked into a policy and is *there any group across the political spectrum that would oppose it*?


The usual cohort would oppose it...Shinners and the Alphabet parties/Indo's who rely on/pander to the welfare vote


----------



## elcato

Gordon Gekko said:


> I don’t think hyperbole serves any purpose here. Many of these people don’t start on €50k, they finish on it, if they’re lucky.


Wow. So you are saying that some of these people who have a degree or nurses or childcare workers do actually start on 50k ? Or are you not reading the first line of your post ? The point is most people in the workforce will struggle with actually living on their wage for a few years till they get to a reasonable salary scale. _Some_ oirish people think once they get a job they should also be able to buy a house. That should not be the case.


----------



## PGF2016

Delboy said:


> The usual cohort would oppose it...Shinners and the Alphabet parties/Indo's who rely on/pander to the welfare vote


That's what I was getting at. Would the looneys really oppose nurses and guards getting houses? They're not going to bankers and lawyers. 

I suppose I was being naive and that yes, they would oppose.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

elcato said:


> Wow. So you are saying that some of these people who have a degree or nurses or childcare workers do actually start on 50k ? Or are you not reading the first line of your post ? The point is most people in the workforce will struggle with actually living on their wage for a few years till they get to a reasonable salary scale. _Some_ oirish people think once they get a job they should also be able to buy a house. That should not be the case.



I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

You’re switching wildly from stuff about people starting on €50k to stuff about people not starting on €50k; which is it?

I knew of very few graduates who started on €50k in my day. Some in certain financial services, that was it. I think I was €20k or thereabouts, €22k maybe.


----------



## Marion

I had a guy today who powerhouses offer to do my hard landscaping  for €230.

I declined.

But I needed it done and later spoke with him. Told him I had forgotten an area in front of my house. He wanted to review. I told him I couldn’t afford his price. Got an earful about small companies and their expenses!

Asked him for final price.


Would only accept cash for €200 including new area.

I have to earn €300 give or take to pay this entrepreneur! That’s three days supervision of the leaving cert examination if anyone is interested! (Travel expenses may arise)

I hate having to pay money to those whom I know won’t declare it. But, I will. I know this guy won’t pay any taxes on it. I won’t respond to how do I know questions on this! 

Marion


----------



## noproblem

How do you know if ANYONE you pay to do a job pays tax, not just this person. Answer being, you don't.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

noproblem said:


> How do you know if ANYONE you pay to do a job pays tax, not just this person. Answer being, you don't.




Are you being facetious?

I think it’s reasonably safe to assume that when a service provider says “okay, I’ll do it for €X cash” that he/she won’t declare it.

Equally, I think it’s reasonably safe to assume that someone who volunteers a VAT invoice and accepts all payment methods will declare it.


----------



## Marion

One never knows!  

Marion


----------



## RETIRED2017

Marion said:


> I had a guy today who powerhouses offer to do my hard landscaping  for €230.
> 
> I declined.
> 
> But I needed it done and later spoke with him. Told him I had forgotten an area in front of my house. He wanted to review. I told him I couldn’t afford his price. Got an earful about small companies and their expenses!
> 
> Asked him for final price.
> 
> 
> Would only accept cash for €200 including new area.
> 
> I have to earn €300 give or take to pay this entrepreneur! That’s three days supervision of the leaving cert examination if anyone is interested! (Travel expenses may arise)
> 
> I hate having to pay money to those whom I know won’t declare it. But, I will. I know this guy won’t pay any taxes on it. I won’t respond to how do I know questions on this!
> 
> Marion


Why would you give the work to someone you know will not declare it, In my book the people who seek out a lower price job knowing well tax is not going to be paid are also cheating the system even more so than the person doing the work,


----------



## Marion

Let’s be clear here. I didn’t ask him for a cash price. I just told him I couldn’t afford his first offer.

It’s not up to me to police private sector companies to pay their taxes. 

I would be surprised if he paid.

Marion


----------



## noproblem

Gordon Gekko said:


> Are you being facetious?
> 
> I think it’s reasonably safe to assume that when a service provider says “okay, I’ll do it for €X cash” that he/she won’t declare it.
> 
> Equally, I think it’s reasonably safe to assume that someone who volunteers a VAT invoice and accepts all payment methods will declare it.



Many's the time my brother didn't get a job because the customer thought it too dear and wanted to know "how much for cash"? For a long time he didn't do this but copped on after hearing from other people. He began to price the "cash quote" into his modus operandi. It didn't take too long for this methodology to reap rewards for him. In every single case he paid his vat and tax so this is my reasoning for posting the comment. Maybe you should learn the economics of the real world Gordon and not a set of blah blah from the Uni's ot RTC's.


----------



## 2Clueless

Omg. Brian is a teacher ... of Business!!!


----------



## Protocol

Watched show.

Two married teachers in rural east Cork.

Gross not mentioned, net 5,880 pm.

They rent, rent is "low".

Two kids under 5, childcare costs described as "low".

Debt = 33,752.

Debt costs 1,000 pm.

They strike me as naive and immature, especially for teachers.


----------



## Protocol

They both have CC debt.

Overdraft also mentioned.

She thinks they can buy a house with a sea view, even though she has huge debts, and no record of regular saving.


----------



## 2Clueless

Protocol said:


> Watched show.
> 
> Two married teachers in rural east Cork.
> 
> Gross not mentioned, net 5,880 pm.
> 
> They rent, rent is "low".
> 
> Two kids under 5, childcare costs described as "low".
> 
> Debt = 33,752.
> 
> Debt costs 1,000 pm.
> 
> They strike me as naive and immature, especially for teachers.


Agree, and I’m a teacher


----------



## Gordon Gekko

I thought that the presenter was good. The subjects struck me as not the full shilling, particularly the wife who seemed to grin inanely the whole time. Not the worst thing I’ve ever seen.


----------



## RETIRED2017

The thing that I was not surprised to hear was one of them was turned down for a credit card ,The other then applied for one with a max limit of 4000 euro and was approved for 14000 euro ,Any one who is questioning /don't understand why the Central bank are forcing banks to sell off bad debt got there answer ,


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Gordon Gekko said:


> I thought that the presenter was good. The subjects struck me as not the full shilling, particularly the wife who seemed to grin inanely the whole time. Not the worst thing I’ve ever seen.



Very good summary.

The presenter was much better than I expected although I had not seen him before on TV. 

My only criticism is that it should not be described as "economics". It was entertainment and just that.


----------



## noproblem

I'd seriously consider taking any child of mine from a school either of them was "teaching" in. Are they not embarrassed?


----------



## llgon

Not good when the presenter says that a Business Studies teacher was clueless about money.


----------



## RETIRED2017

Gordon Gekko said:


> I thought that the presenter was good. The subjects struck me as not the full shilling, particularly the wife who seemed to grin inanely the whole time. Not the worst thing I’ve ever seen.


The people who were trowing the shillings at them are a bigger problem long term if the central bank were to give in to the pressure coming on them to relax controls again,

They are earning around 100K to be taking home 5800K per month ,

To be honest I did not see anything to suggest not the full shilling she was only laughing at the people who do not know any better and buy  and defend the 27K per year argument ,

We can all see the good job the central Bank are doing now,


----------



## Marion

What does it matter if one had a degree in business or Law or medicine or if one is a teacher?


What harm if people can’t figure out for themselves in the short term when they are young  their financial situation.

They are willing to learn, that’s the whole point!


I haven’t looked at the programme. I will.

Marion


----------



## RedOnion

Marion said:


> What does it matter if one had a degree in business or Law or medicine or if one is a teacher?


I didn't see the program either, but the below is from the junior cycle business studies curriculum:

"
_*Strand one: Personal finance
Personal finance focuses on students developing a set of skills, knowledge and values that allows 
them to make informed decisions to effectively and responsibly manage their financial resources. 
In this strand, students learn about managing their finances, responsible consumer behaviour and 
the value of using resources ethically and efficiently for the benefit of individuals and society."*_

Someone who teaches this for a living should have at least a basic grasp of personal financial management.


----------



## Marion

I agree.

But teaching it and experiencing it at a personal level might not necessarily coincide.

Marion


----------



## Feemar5

I felt the presenter gave good advice but the couple involved seemed to treat their money issues as a joke.


----------



## llgon

Marion said:


> teaching it and experiencing it at a personal level might not necessarily coincide.



Definitely true in this case.

'He who can does, he who can't teaches.'

Unfair to the many good teachers out there but a lot of evidence of it here.


----------



## Saavy99

Marion said:


> What harm if people can’t figure out for themselves in the short term when they are young  their financial situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Marion



The couple in question didn't look that young, they were at the very least in their thirties with two kids. I thought it was all very far fetched to be honest esp given they were two teachers. I shudder if they were teaching my kids.


----------



## Marion

I’m looking forward to watching it.

How do people expect teachers to behave?  

We are all different.  Some teachers drive me mad. I presume I drive others mad.


Life goes on!

Marion


----------



## llgon

They didn't drive me mad. I just felt he had no grasp of what he is supposed to teach.


----------



## Marion

I presume that’s fair comment based on the programme that you watched.

Not sure what he actually  teaches as a business teacher. I counted 22 subjects on my last review!

Looking forward to being entertained.

Marion


----------



## llgon

Enjoy, looking forward to hearing your views afterwards!


----------



## Saavy99

I was particularly intrigued when they went into a travel agent to book two tickets to America.  I would be on Google searching sky scanner and every other such website looking for the best deal. Fascinating stuff really


----------



## llgon

What about the subtitles that appeared on screen from time to time? Hadn't seen anything like it before.


----------



## Bronte

RETIRED2017 said:


> The thing that I was not surprised to hear was one of them was turned down for a credit card ,The other then applied for one with a max limit of 4000 euro and was approved for 14000 euro ,Any one who is questioning /don't understand why the Central bank are forcing banks to sell off bad debt got there answer ,


That's outragous. Sounds like Celtic Tiger Mark 2 to me.  Won't be long now until the 14K limit is a target and it's increased at the stroke of a pen to 20K.

So in debt now to the tune of 34K. With no assets. And nothing to show for it. Paying one sixth of their incomes on servicing debt.  Plus they have overdrafts.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Saavy99 said:


> I was particularly intrigued when they went into a travel agent to book two tickets to America.



That struck me as odd as well, but it might have been done for TV purposes.  They probably did book their tickets online.

Of course, the first thing  Eoin should have told them is not to go America. 

If you want to buy a house, you don't have an expensive wedding and you don't go on expensive holidays.

They seemed to think, as a lot of people do, that financial engineering will show them how to have everything they want.  

Brendan


----------



## Brendan Burgess

llgon said:


> What about the subtitles that appeared on screen from time to time?



I think that they consider it too old fashioned to put up an actual table showing their income and expenditure.  Sugar cubes are much more visual. 

I think he said that with his plan, they would have paid off their debts and would have the deposit for the house of their dreams within 3 years. Or maybe it was 5 years. 

Brendan


----------



## tallpaul

While there was some juicy editing to keep the whole thing zipping along, a couple of things struck me: firstly, it was the first time that they had ever gone grocery shopping using a shopping list!! Secondly, the presenter drove two different BMW's during the programme which could suggest that it was made over a fairly long period of time to not much avail by the end.

Its struck me that the couple were only interested in the good times and wanted those to continue even if they were put under some sort of financial constraint. (I think they even said this?). They had decent after-tax salaries coupled with a 'low' rent meant that they had plenty of disposable income that they had no previous incentive to save. If I was the teacher concerned, I certainly would not be happy with my own financial performance to date as a business teacher!

The presenter was good and tried to explain clearly to his audience some practical financial matters, particularly how and what banks look at in loan applications and how credit card debt works. It might have been useful to give a short recap of these points at the end to reinforce them for the learning viewer. Although I'm sure he will have a financial advice type book out shortly to coincide with the series!

Overall though, like most money issues programmes, it all comes down to whether the participants have much common sense, a sense of the value of money or the motivation to make things better. Unfortunately all three seemed to be sorely lacking here...


----------



## Cervelo

I cant believe that a couple today that lived through the last financial crisis could be so clueless about their finances as I said before "Cuckoo land"
I think three times during the show she said or implied, spend now and we'll work out how to pay for it later
The 14k CC limit was when my jaw hit the floor "my first reaction was add this to our savings and we have a deposit for a house"

Is it really that hard to understand that if you earn X amount that spending X+1 is going to lead to problems that will affect your life and lifestyle


----------



## Chelseablue

It is basic common since, however these people were making the minimum payment which was craze. It would worry me that one person was a business studies teacher and he could not even balance his bank statement and had a number of bounced direct debits which cost him €12.50 each time. Think my 16 year old could give him a lesson or two


----------



## noproblem

I can imagine this couple will get a bit of stick for this and by going public they're up there to be shot at. Hope they do a follow up those 2 fine upstanding and university educated citizens in about 10 years time. I'm just wondering as well why they were picked to front the new programme, or is it a bit like Big Brother and one needs to be a certain type of individual? The awful thought has just struck me that they might have been representative of an unimaginable trait in that particular age group!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not joking either


----------



## RETIRED2017

according to the presenter they will be able to borrow 350K for a home with there salaries The wife is hoping they will get a home with a sea view which is no harm in aspiring to, It took me 3 house moves to get to the house I aspired to, With the job the both have should allow them to achieve there goal but may take more than one house move,

In ten years time I can see them starting to make plans to retire early to the Sun ,
They are doing ok career wise they will be better off than most of the people criticising them today in ten/20 years time


----------



## michaelm

I read one time that most people will buy three houses in their lifetime.  I'm in house three and can't foresee moving again.  Perhaps seeing themselves on the show, more so than participating, will give them the jolt they need.


----------



## noproblem

michaelm said:


> I read one time that most people will buy three houses in their lifetime.  I'm in house three and can't foresee moving again.  Perhaps seeing themselves on the show, more so than participating, will give them the jolt they need.


Some jolt they'll need, probably get an inheritance soon and be laughing at all of us worrying about them


----------



## mugsymugsy

My wife and I sometimes say to ourselves we are doing things wrong...in that we don't pay tv, make our own lunches, run cars that are old but reliable etc etc

That said because of this we can take a career break or if work changes then we are not in crises mode because of the choices  we have made.

The people on the show are very much living for now and unless circumstances dramatically change either positive or negative then they will probably continue very much in this mode for the forseeable future.

Does worry me a business studies teacher can't budget...


----------



## RETIRED2017

michaelm said:


> I read one time that most people will buy three houses in their lifetime.  I'm in house three and can't foresee moving again.  Perhaps seeing themselves on the show, more so than participating, will give them the jolt they need.


They were going to be ok long term anyway once the did not suffer from gambling or have an addiction,

The central banks limiting mortgages to 3.5 times salary and people/banks needing to show the have a track record showing the can pay back Mortgage will cure a lot of the problems Banks are working through at the moment,


----------



## RichInSpirit

I didn't see the program but a couple of things from reading this thread.
1). I'm doing the snowball thing at the moment.
2). As humans we seem to behave like Lemmings a lot of the time. There is an awful lot of debt built up "keeping up with the neighbours." And I include house buying and mortgages in that statement.
A lot of the financial industry is built on the fact that we behave like Lemmings.


----------



## 2Clueless

Heard the Presenter on the Sean O’ Rourke Show a couple of times. He always comes across really well


----------



## RETIRED2017

noproblem said:


> Some jolt they'll need, probably get an inheritance soon and be laughing at all of us worrying about them


If you are worrying  about them stop there are very few as well off at they are ,they will have good pensions and lump sum coming there way in there own right from there chosen careers,
Both  will have the summer to chill out by the sea or go to the sun if the sun fails to come to them,

Unlike lots of others around there age the Did not go mad and take out one of the Mortgages on offer at up to 14 times there salaries and have the stress trying to pay it back now trapped in a high interest  rate Mortgage,

More luck to them if they finish up getting an inheritance along with a good chunk of there parents tax free lump sum,


----------



## elcato

I didn't see the program but I would think that the smiley/laugh reaction to hearing home truths is a natural reaction for some people so I would not take much from that. I know lots of people who have this reaction and I'd say the couple in question are cringing at looking at themselves doing it.


----------



## lb12345

mugsymugsy said:


> My wife and I sometimes say to ourselves we are doing things wrong...in that we don't pay tv, make our own lunches, run cars that are old but reliable etc etc



I often have the same thought!! I always wonder how others on similar salaries manage to afford new fancy cars, amazing travel, lavish dinners etc but I suppose the show last night highlights are people might be just piling up debt to afford these lifestyles!


----------



## odyssey06

You can get a new fancy car on PCP without incurring debt but you'll pay for it in the long run.


----------



## HollowKnight

I watched the show last night and was really shocked at how little the couple seemed to understand how their debt was so bad! 

Was also surprised that the presenter didn't tell them to forego their holiday wedding. (But maybe RTE paid for that for their appearance on the show?)

And another thing that surprised me was the presenter not telling them to close their overdraft facility!


----------



## elcato

HollowKnight said:


> And another thing that surprised me was the presenter not telling them to close their overdraft facility!


He probably did but was edited out as the top brass want entertainment and are probably even more clueless about money than the participants.


----------



## PMU

Perhaps the creative team behind this programme could review this post https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/same-circumstances-different-response.210891/#post-1594543 and similar others on AAM on the perilous sate of the public finances and advise the Government on 'how to be good' with the taxpayers' money.


----------



## Daddy Ireland

I saw the program.  I was very surprised that a business teacher was so poor with money.   Eye opener in credit card refusal  and yet credit card offer of 14k to spouse.  I am not surprised that the credit card co offered such an amount as they have great income and low rent.   Shocking though how they managed that big enough monthly income.


----------



## MangoJoe

Just watched the programme - I think the main thing for me is that while these two individuals have no idea what they are at financially they also have no idea how lucky they are to be paid so well by the Irish State when clearly they have a very limited capacity to return value for this payment.

This site boasts some very capable mathematicians - Can anyone tot up an estimated total cost to the State of these two from graduation to retirement age inclusive of teachers wages, increments and pension?


----------



## tallpaul

MangoJoe said:


> Just watched the programme - I think the main thing for me is that while these two individuals have no idea what they are at financially they also have no idea how lucky they are to be paid so well by the Irish State when clearly they have a very limited capacity to return value for this payment.
> 
> This site boasts some very capable mathematicians - Can anyone tot up an estimated total cost to the State of these two from graduation to retirement age inclusive of teachers wages, increments and pension?



Naturally the user with the public service chip on their shoulder had to arrive at some stage. I thought the purpose of the thread was to talk about a TV programme and people who are not that good with money... public or private sector, who gives a toss??...


----------



## Brendan Burgess

I set my Box to record the series and there is another one on it now.

I had assumed it was a weekly programme? 

Brendan


----------



## RedOnion

Brendan Burgess said:


> I set my Box to record the series and there is another one on it now.


It was repeated yesterday at 17:10 so probably picked that up?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

That must be it, but it actually said Series 1, Programme 3 

Brendan


----------



## noproblem

After the debacle of Programme 1 it's more than likely the people in Programme 2 couldn't believe or understand what they were being told about their financial situation and the producers had to move on to Prog 3. Be very careful with what you find in that Box, you might end up with an episode of "Believe it or not" episode in there


----------



## llgon

The TV listings I saw for yesterday's programme described episode 2.  However I checked in on it and it was indeed a repeat of episode 1.  Looks like Brian isn't the only one who's a bit confused.


----------



## 2Clueless

Eoin comes across so well on this programme...think he’d even forgive my overspending on cat food!


----------



## Daddy Ireland

Agree, I thought Eoin was very good too.  Much more interesting case than Week 1.  He really took a weight off her shoulders especially regarding her rented accomodation.


----------



## Saavy99

He's has a great way of explaining simple  money matters and his analogy of using pepper and salt for saving the emergency fund was excellent.


----------



## elacsaplau

Very talented presenter


----------



## noproblem

I get the impression that most people looking for help want someone to dig them out of a hole of their own making but won't be too long in digging another one for themselves.


----------



## RentingD

The presenter was very kind and i'd say the woman really benefitted from his advice this week. She was so worried at the start!


----------



## Easeler

It's economics for 4 year olds really,


----------



## Cervelo

noproblem said:


> I get the impression that most people looking for help want someone to dig them out of a hole of their own making but won't be too long in digging another one for themselves.



I would agree with you 100%, the simple reason why this woman is in debt is the basic fact she was spending more than she was earning, its nobody else's fault but her own that she has found herself in this position
The good thing is that Eoin has shown her that she can live within her means pay down debt and save but its up to her if she wants to succeed or not

The take home for me from this week is that its not enough to just know you can live within your means but to understand where and when you spend your money and how this has a knock on effect on your goals


----------



## Protocol

In some sense it's sad that at 54 a person has zero net assets, in fact has net liabilities.

Although she does have a PS pension.


Some Irish people seem to have a relaxed attitude to debt. She is worried about high debt, yet continues to overspend, e.g. 30 every three weeks on eyelashes.

All of that type of expenditure should be zeroed, until all debts cleared.


----------



## Protocol

Interesting that this nurse on 43k is effectively a social housing tenant, paying 99 rent per week / 430 pm to an AHB.


----------



## michaelm

She should switch to Aldi or Lidl.  She buys pricier butter than me .


----------



## Saavy99

Protocol said:


> s worried about high debt, yet continues to overspend, e.g. 30 every three weeks on eyelashes.



A lady has to have some treat, she's a nurse.working hard looking after sick people. If it makes her feel good about herself, so be it,  she could be doing worse like spending it on fags or booze.


----------



## Cervelo

Saavy99 said:


> A lady has to have some treat, she's a nurse.working hard looking after sick people. If it makes her feel good about herself, so be it,  she could be doing worse like spending it on fags or booze.



I think you missed the point Protocol was trying to make


----------



## Saavy99

No  I didn't miss the point, you have to be a woman to understand


----------



## noproblem

Saavy99 said:


> No  I didn't miss the point, you have to be a woman to understand



Therein lies the problem


----------



## pat k

I totally agree with your post there is alot of people who have their priorities wrong . and again some people who fall on hard times These programmes always interest me because most of the people have a good job and seem well educated ,hard to believe some of these struggle with money .


----------



## Gordon Gekko

My sense is that people are being conditioned to expect/demand a certain standard of living, regardless of their means, and that is the root cause of most of the problems that we see, both on TV and here.


----------



## Chelseablue

Gordan, you hit the “nail on the head” it is the since of “entitlement”  I may not have the money but I have the right to my holiday in the sun even though I am social welfare or whatever is the case


----------



## RentingD

In fairness the lady on the programme this week suffered ill health so couldn't work and then went through a separation. I think she showed the anxiety associated with debt and felt so vulnerable. I thought the teachers were irresponsible with money but this woman was a different case. Could happen anyone!


----------



## Saavy99

Very well said RentingD.


----------



## RETIRED2017

Chelseablue said:


> Gordan, you hit the “nail on the head” it is the since of “entitlement”  I may not have the money but I have the right to my holiday in the sun even though I am social welfare or whatever is the case


She is working and spending her own money ,


----------



## Cervelo

Saavy99 said:


> No  I didn't miss the point, you have to be a woman to understand



Could you please explain it to me from a woman's point of view because obviously as a man I've missed the point that Protocol was trying to make ???


----------



## MangoJoe

Cervelo said:


> Could you please explain it to me from a woman's point of view because obviously as a man I've missed the point that Protocol was trying to make ???



I didn't make the original comment and I'm not a woman.... But I would like to point out that €30/21= a trivial €1.42 a day spent on these controversially extravagant eyelashes.

Society judges everyone on their presentation and appearance, even more so if you are a woman. Looking well helps us to feel more confident and generally feel better about ourselves, especially in a public facing job.

People should have some sense, empathy and understanding.

* PS Cervelo that's not directed at you or anyone else on here - General statement....


----------



## Cervelo

I agree with you somewhat but where do you draw the line on the "Sense, empathy and understanding" ??
Nobody is saying this woman has had an easy life even though it can be argued she is the author of her own misfortune
Nobody is saying that this woman shouldn't spend some of her hard earned cash on herself, we all need a bit of me, me, me spending.

This woman went on a show to sort out her financial problems with three goals secure her home, pay her debts and put money aside for her future retirement in ten years
Eoin had showed her this is all possible, her house sorted for the rest of her life, all debt paid off in six years and if she watches her spending she will also have a nest egg saved by retirement
But guess what happened at the end of the show, Eoin was questioning her "me, me, me" spending and the fact that it had increased and that she has no control over it
It wasn't just the eyelashes, there was also the "favourite soap and hand creams" the "nights on the tear with the girls" and the fact that she spends cash in her wallet without knowing where she is spending it

The eyelashes as you pointed out may only cost €1.42 a day but in the ten years to her "retirement" she can look forward having €5200 less in the savings account


----------



## llgon

By the end of the programme I don't think Eoin had much hope that she was going to change her ways. He was clutching at straws when he was summarising the improvements e.g. she is now talking to her housing agency. However it is up to her how she chooses to live her life.


----------



## Buddyboy

As my wife pointed out (who is a woman). Forego the eyelashes and she would have the credit union loan paid off in the year. In fact she said, if the credit union were watching it, they would be not very sympathetic.


----------



## llgon

I don't think they would have been surprised though.  The lady was proud to say that she had engaged with the credit union for the last ten years about her loans.  Without a hint of embarrassment she then added that she had not made any repayments in that time.


----------



## 2Clueless

Getting my eye trio done tomorrow €30 a month and needed-let’s put it this way, my sister used to call me Boris Becker when I was younger as I’m so fair!


----------



## Bronte

Saavy99 said:


> A lady has to have some treat, she's a nurse.working hard looking after sick people. If it makes her feel good about herself, so be it,  she could be doing worse like spending it on fags or booze.


Wrong wrong wrong. If you have debt and are overspending you cannot justify this type of spending on frivolities no matter what your job is or for other spurious reasons like feeling good.  Find something free to do instead.


----------



## Bronte

MangoJoe said:


> People should have some sense, empathy and understanding.
> 
> .



People should have sense about spending what they earn and paying back their debts. It's got nothing to do with empahty and understanding. If she is not paying the credit union than she's impacting the credit unions bottom line and those who are paying their debts as agreed.  And if she continues she's digging herself an even worse financial mess.   

(I've no issue with a CU doing a deal or cutting slack to anyone who falls on hard times)


----------



## David1234

Bronte said:


> People should have sense about spending what they earn and paying back their debts. It's got nothing to do with empahty and understanding. If she is not paying the credit union than she's impacting the credit unions bottom line and those who are paying their debts as agreed.  And if she continues she's digging herself an even worse financial mess.
> 
> (I've no issue with a CU doing a deal or cutting slack to anyone who falls on hard times)



Agreed,

Are people who forgo the spending on luxury items in order to repay debt celebrated? No, this is what is expected of people who take out loans.

This whole idea of people getting a pat on the back for revisiting debts that has been ignored for years whilst overspending on non essential items is pure Ludacris.


----------



## Leo

David1234 said:


> ...is pure Ludacris.



Really?


----------



## HollowKnight

For some reason this week's programme didn't record with my Virgin media box. Just watching it now through playback option. 
Wonder how many others didn't auto record through series link?


----------



## Firefly

Leo said:


> Really?


booyakasha!!!


----------



## Cervelo

Interesting show this week, glad to see that we have a couple that can live within their means but at the same time am a little shocked at how bad their understanding of microeconomics is
Is this not something that is or should be thought to our kids in school ??


----------



## Steven Barrett

Cervelo said:


> Interesting show this week, glad to see that we have a couple that can live within their means but at the same time am a little shocked at how bad their understanding of microeconomics is
> *Is this not something that is or should be thought to our kids in school ??*



Or by their parents. 

How a parent acts with money has a huge influence on how a child acts with money as they get older. Being taught about money in school will be pointless if they go home and mum & dad are constantly buying stuff that they don't need or never say no to a child's request for a new toy.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


----------



## Cervelo

Couldn't agree with you more Steven, as they say "everything starts at home"
I always will remember my fathers stock answer when I was looking for something new or something that I didn't need, "Who do you think I am, Rockefeller"


----------



## SoylentGreen

Did I hear that the couple plus one child were spending €800 per month on food?

Both myself and my wife struggle to spend the €50 per week in Dunnes Stores to get the €10 cashback.


----------



## Steven Barrett

SoylentGreen said:


> Did I hear that the couple plus one child were spending €800 per month on food?
> 
> Both myself and my wife *struggle to spend the €50 per week in Dunnes Stores to get the €10 cashback*.



Buy booze


----------



## so-crates

Cervelo said:


> Couldn't agree with you more Steven, as they say "everything starts at home"
> I always will remember my fathers stock answer when I was looking for something new or something that I didn't need, "Who do you think I am, Rockefeller"



My mum would have me calculate the number of hours that would be need to be worked to pay for something, maths and basic economics in one fell swoop!


----------



## noproblem

Cervelo said: ↑
*Is this not something that is or should be thought to our kids in school ??

100% No.
*


----------



## noproblem

so-crates said:


> My mum would have me calculate the number of hours that would be need to be worked to pay for something, maths and basic economics in one fell swoop!



Might have been better to spend more time on the 3 R's.


----------



## Chelseablue

Cervelo said:


> Interesting show this week, glad to see that we have a couple that can live within their means but at the same time am a little shocked at how bad their understanding of microeconomics is
> Is this not something that is or should be thought to our kids in school ??



Cervelo,
Have your forgotten week 1 couple, he was a business studies teacher !! and he couldn't add up


----------



## so-crates

noproblem said:


> Might have been better to spend more time on the 3 R's.


*...would need to be worked...* 

Ah sure everyone is entitled to a mistake or three!


----------



## galway_blow_in

SoylentGreen said:


> Did I hear that the couple plus one child were spending €800 per month on food?
> 
> Both myself and my wife struggle to spend the €50 per week in Dunnes Stores to get the €10 cashback.



My partner and I have two kids,, one is two and a half, the other is four months, we spend about 90 euro per week but that doesn't include nappies or baby formula,I don't drink anymore than a handful of times per year but we don't live on mince and pasta, I'm also gluten intolerant so dietery special foods are a bit higher, 200 is on the high side but not outrageous when you have two children if they are including the spend on baby food, nappies etc

When I was single, I reckon I spent about forty euro per week on groceries but that was before I realised I shouldn't eat wheat


----------



## Cervelo

Chelseablue said:


> Cervelo,
> Have your forgotten week 1 couple, he was a business studies teacher !! and he couldn't add up



They can't all be that bad, or are they???


----------



## RETIRED2017

Cervelo said:


> They can't all be that bad, or are they???


The are not bad at all , The have Rockefeller'' the Bank of you and me to bail them out so they don't have to be as careful with there money


----------



## HollowKnight

I was interested that finally they showed the benefit of switching a mortgage. 

People have such inertia when it comes to a switch. However, the show said it would save €30odd thousand. This is only true if the rate stays the same (which it won't when they've fixed for x years).


----------



## IsleOfMan

SoylentGreen said:


> Did I hear that the couple plus one child were spending €800 per month on food?
> 
> Both myself and my wife struggle to spend the €50 per week in Dunnes Stores to get the €10 cashback.



So far we have seen the participants on the show shopping in SuperValu. Maybe they don't have a Dunnes or Tesco close to them. I find SuperValu expensive for certain non promotional items. We saw in the last show one of the participants purchasing a fillet of Sea Bass for €3. These are regularly on offer at €1.50. I buy them on special offer. When they are not on special offer I buy something that is.

With a bit of cop on I am sure that this couple could drop their weekly shop from €200 by a good €50.


----------



## galway_blow_in

IsleOfMan said:


> So far we have seen the participants on the show shopping in SuperValu. Maybe they don't have a Dunnes or Tesco close to them. I find SuperValu expensive for certain non promotional items. We saw in the last show one of the participants purchasing a fillet of Sea Bass for €3. These are regularly on offer at €1.50. I buy them on special offer. When they are not on special offer I buy something that is.
> 
> With a bit of cop on I am sure that this couple could drop their weekly shop from €200 by a good €50.



Supervalu is very expensive full stop, I'm always puzzled as to why its so popular.

At least with M+S, you get the upmarket experience


----------



## messyleo

galway_blow_in said:


> Supervalu is very expensive full stop, I'm always puzzled as to why its so popular.
> 
> At least with M+S, you get the upmarket experience



Their bakery products and butchers counter are very good (maybe it depends on the branch though, Blackrock in Dublin is very good imo), and the special offer products are good value. Some own brand products are price matched as well. They also do a great range of artisan Irish products through their food academy line. They are definitely expensive for some lines though.


----------



## galway_blow_in

gravitygirl said:


> Their bakery products and butchers counter are very good (maybe it depends on the branch though, Blackrock in Dublin is very good imo), and the special offer products are good value. Some own brand products are price matched as well. They also do a great range of artisan Irish products through their food academy line. They are definitely expensive for some lines though.



Might that Blackrock store be an ex Superquinn outlet ?


----------



## Tintagel

galway_blow_in said:


> Might that Blackrock store be an ex Superquinn outlet ?



Yes. I live in Blackrock.  There is now an Aldi, SuperValu and M & S, within 50 yds of each other. Less than a mile away there is a Tesco and Dunnes.

I still find SuperValu very expensive for some items so I only shop there for their promotional products. I can pop in to Aldi and M & S and pick up their promotional items at the same time.

I often wondered why the people participating on the show are always seen in SuperValu and not one of the German retailers. They all seem to be terribly unaware type people.


----------



## Cervelo

I find now that Dunnes Stores is in my opinion the cheapest supermarket to do your shopping in
Not only have they improved the quality of most of their products over the last few years they now have priced matched nearly all the similar items that you get in the German retailers
And that's before you start to factor in the 20% discount if you spend €50


----------



## galway_blow_in

Tintagel said:


> Yes. I live in Blackrock.  There is now an Aldi, SuperValu and M & S, within 50 yds of each other. Less than a mile away there is a Tesco and Dunnes.
> 
> I still find SuperValu very expensive for some items so I only shop there for their promotional products. I can pop in to Aldi and M & S and pick up their promotional items at the same time.
> 
> I often wondered why the people participating on the show are always seen in SuperValu and not one of the German retailers. They all seem to be terribly unaware type people.



We predominantly shop in lidl but M+S is nice for special occasions but even then we don't buy the staples there.

Find aldi compromise quality for price


----------



## galway_blow_in

Cervelo said:


> I find now that Dunnes Stores is in my opinion the cheapest supermarket to do your shopping in
> Not only have they improved the quality of most of their products over the last few years they now have priced matched nearly all the similar items that you get in the German retailers
> And that's before you start to factor in the 20% discount if you spend €50



Dunnes has the best balance overall,  lidl closer to us however

Prefer dunnes to tesco anyday


----------



## noproblem

Mind me asking why you prefer Dunne's to Tesco?


----------



## messyleo

Leaving aside the €10 off €50 (I never manage to spend enough to hit the €50) Dunnes is quite expensive I find - free range chicken fillets are around €17 per kg compared with €24 in tesco/aldi/lidl. Dunnes own brand bran flakes are €2 for 750g compared with 75c in Aldi and 1.29 in SV. 
Dunnes own brand chickpeas are €1 versus 39 cent in aldi, lidl and tesco, and 55c in SV

I think the best advice for saving money is to go for own brand products and try to buy any branded items whenever they are on offer. The latter are usually similarly priced across stores and really it's the own brand produce where the price differentials are, and the offers for branded items tend to rotate e.g. glenisk strained yogurt is just finishing on offer in Tesco and is now on offer in SV.


----------



## galway_blow_in

noproblem said:


> Mind me asking why you prefer Dunne's to Tesco?



Cheaper for what I need, less risk of produce which is nearly out of date.


----------



## noproblem

For ages they were all the same price for own brand sugar but I see that has changed now. I wonder when they'll do the same for butter?


----------



## michaelm

noproblem said:


> Mind me asking why you prefer Dunne's to Tesco?


I too prefer Dunnes over Tesco.  Dunnes €50 for €40 shopping is hard to beat.  Meat is better in Dunnes (no horse) and I find the mega-Tesco shops to be soul destroying . . offering a tyranny of choice.  My shop of choice would be Aldi.


----------



## AlbacoreA

With Tesco you have to be on your toes otherwise it can add up.


----------



## Cervelo

When I started watching this weeks show I really felt that Rachel was very naïve with little or no "business sense" and her willingness to borrow money to fund her dreams was surprising
But by the end of the show I was thinking fair play to her, she got there and if she can keep her head screwed on there's no reason why she won't make this work, chapeau


----------



## galway_blow_in

michaelm said:


> I too prefer Dunnes over Tesco.  Dunnes €50 for €40 shopping is hard to beat.  Meat is better in Dunnes (no horse) and I find the mega-Tesco shops to be soul destroying . . offering a tyranny of choice.  My shop of choice would be Aldi.



Aldi is by far the cheapest but you loose on quality and choice, lidl have a proper bakery and fruit and vegetables are better more often, I will praise aldi however for forcing lidl to introduce a proper gluten free range

Both IMO are better than dunnes or tesco in this area and cheaper too, your stuck with the awful kelkin range


----------



## Cervelo

Dunnes is where we now do the majority of our shopping with Lidl for little shops or things we cant get in Dunnes it used to be the other way round but as I said earlier I think Dunnes is now cheaper
I used to shop in Superquinn Blackrock purely because of the superscan option but since their now Supervalu I feel their too expensive compared to Dunnes and Lidl
I've been in Aldi but haven't actually ever bought anything, likewise Londis, and spar are only good for emergency purchases

Tesco on the other hand is a retailer that I avoid not because of the prices or products but as a ex manufacturer of Tesco products and a supplier of my own products I saw first hand how they deal with not only their suppliers but also their staff, subcontractors and the opinions of the senior head office staff in the UK in relation to Ireland and Irish suppliers has left me with no option but to never shop there


----------



## elcato

Back to the topic of the thread lads. Any more Dunnes v Aldi v SV etc will be deleted.


----------



## HollowKnight

Cervelo said:


> When I started watching this weeks show I really felt that Rachel was very naïve with little or no "business sense" and her willingness to borrow money to fund her dreams was surprising
> But by the end of the show I was thinking fair play to her, she got there and if she can keep her head screwed on there's no reason why she won't make this work, chapeau



Yeh she seemed to be onto a good thing at the end.

The arrangement with the van seemed dodgy AF.


----------



## Daddy Ireland

Couldn't follow the van business.   She was due to pay 3.5k and had managed at one point to pay 3k so was only 500 short.  Instead of trying to borrow the other 500 from say the credit union tk get possession of the van she decided to ask whoever had the van to try and sell it and mentioned your man might be able to get 2k for her.   That never transpired.  All a bit strange.


----------



## noproblem

HollowKnight said:


> Yeh she seemed to be onto a good thing at the end.
> 
> The arrangement with the van seemed dodgy AF.



What would happen if she got sick? That business model and its turnover is in my opinion a waste of time and i'm not trying to belittle her either.


----------



## Goblin_Shark

HollowKnight said:


> Yeh she seemed to be onto a good thing at the end.
> 
> The arrangement with the van seemed dodgy AF.



Very strange... hope she got her money back, or at least part of it. 
Seemed very determined to achieve her goal, fair play to her.


----------



## RETIRED2017

Goblin_Shark said:


> Very strange... hope she got her money back, or at least part of it.
> Seemed very determined to achieve her goal, fair play to her.


AT the end if the program it stated on screen she had not resolved van Issue ,


----------



## postman pat

how to be good with money....DONT SPEND IT...novel but it works


----------



## Cervelo

elcato said:


> Back to the topic of the thread lads. Any more Dunnes v Aldi v SV etc will be deleted.



Sorry Boss, I presume that was directed mainly at me for my "off the reservation" comment about Tesco

But I do feel in the context of a discussion about "how to be good about money" how, where and when you shop can have a huge impact on a persons or family budget
Particularly when it has been observed by the program makers and us that there can be huge savings to be made by making simple changes
The same could be said for all essential or what would now be called essential spending, house and car insurance, utility bills and mortgage payments etc etc
How many people don't switch their mortgage for cheaper rates or to avail of the cash back, how many don't shop around for their utility or insurance providers for cheaper deals
I'd hazarded a guess that the majority of people struggling to make ends meet don't do these simple exercises ??



noproblem said:


> What would happen if she got sick? That business model and its turnover is in my opinion a waste of time and i'm not trying to belittle her either.



I don't necessarily agree with you here, most self employed or business owners or at least in my experience don't take sick days they know if they don't turn up for work the bills don't get paid and if the unthinkable happened they probably would have a contingency plan in place. I would agree that on the face of it she is "winging it" but I don't think she is really looking for anymore at this stage then a weekly wage but you have to start somewhere, who knows in the future she could have a couple of dog grooming shops if she keeps her head screwed on and learns a bit of money and business sense
If she had thought about it properly she could have got a lot of assistance from the social welfare through the back to work scheme, it would have taken a bit of engineering on her side but it would have helped her greatly 



postman pat said:


> how to be good with money....DONT SPEND IT...novel but it works


 
Easier said than done for most people


----------



## noproblem

Cervelo,
I don't necessarily agree with you here, most self employed or business owners or at least in my experience don't take sick days they know if they don't turn up for work the bills don't get paid and if the unthinkable happened they probably would have a contingency plan in place.

I'm not discussing someone taking a sickie, i'm asking what she would do if she gets sick? People working with children and small animals have a very high tendency to fall prey to an awful lot of bugs, if this happens to her she has nothing in place, would let customers down and may find it awfully difficult to keep going. Again, my post was about her business plan, her tiny turnover and her capacity to expand in any way at all. Sometimes an idea like hers finds sympathy with people wanting the person to succeed, but in reality they would be a lot better off working for someone else. This business is (sadly) doomed to failure in today's commercial reality. Pay business rent, overheads, her time, keep banks happy, plan a future, transport, pay her home rent, pay insurance which i'd imagine may be pretty high re working with animals, etc, etc. There were so many aspects of this programme that didn't go into the detail at all, it makes it rather silly when one thinks about it. I would love to see everyone trying to succeed in business get there, but they won't. In this instance we're talking about this particular girl and the programme,  in my opinion it failed miserably to address the issues of concern, some of which I have mentioned.


----------



## llgon

Was impressed with how Rachel on tonight's show was already good with money at the outset. Earning 34k per annum and with no debts she was able to:
live in a nice house in Dublin
spend a lot of her free time shopping, buying lots of nice clothes
Lots of nights out, eating out, takeaways
€100 per week on hair and cosmetics
Charitable donations
Multiple holidays abroad each year, about to go on a nine night trip to Las Vegas and New York.

It was mentioned that her friends gave her money when she was stuck. Maybe I was watching the next Bertie!


----------



## Easeler

I seen the first 2 minutes couldn't watch it to be honest


----------



## noproblem

Missed it tonight, packing for a little trip to Fuertenventura tomorrow. No borrowings required


----------



## llgon

Fair play, don't think we'll be seeing you in the next series. Enjoy


----------



## HollowKnight

I was underwhelmed by tonight's candidate. It just all seemed so obvious.


----------



## WaterWater

We saw her getting in to a taxi to go to the airport. There are plenty of buses, aircoach etc, that provide a service to the airport. It struck me that it would never have occurred to her to get a bus, even if the trip was for business.


----------



## Cervelo

HollowKnight said:


> I was underwhelmed by tonight's candidate. It just all seemed so obvious.



Yeah, agree with you there, a bit boring if I'm totally honest she's just a young girl spending her money on a hedonistic lifestyle and she's slowly realising that it can't go on forever 
Been there, done that as I would presume most people have done at some stage in their young lives
But what was refreshing even though she was borrowing off friends and presumably paying them back is that she has no CC or loan debts and that she would rather save then borrow for her car  

Two things I noticed in the program was that she mentioned that she learnt her spending habits from her mother which is a point Steven touched on a few posts back 
and that Eoin has acknowledged that it is now getting beyond the reaches of our twenty somethings to own and run a car or get a foot on the property ladder


----------



## PGF2016

Cervelo said:


> Eoin has acknowledged that it is now getting beyond the reaches of our twenty somethings to own and run a car or get a foot on the property ladder



This is in danger of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. 

The only thing stopping a large swatch of twenty somethings buying a car or a house is their own spending habits. In my opinion.


----------



## Tintagel

The hair extensions were no loss.

She can do better than eating the McDonald's apple pies.....

I wondered did she just pay the price the guy asked for when buying the car? A discount was hinted at but we got no details.


----------



## Leo

WaterWater said:


> even if the trip was for business.



Most companies reimburse the travel expenses of their staff. Travel time is work time, so if a taxi saves them even 30 minutes over public transport, it's (usually) money well spent.


----------



## POC

I think last night was a good episode - a lot of viewers know someone like this. 
She did change her ways quite quickly, (including deciding to get rid of the expensive hair extensions). By the end of the programme she had achieved the goal of becoming a car owner. It'll be a constant reminder to her that her saving plan has worked so far, and will motivate her to continue


----------



## Blackrock1

Leo said:


> Most companies reimburse the travel expenses of their staff. Travel time is work time, so if a taxi saves them even 30 minutes over public transport, it's (usually) money well spent.



yes i didnt get this, any where i have worked cover taxis to and from the airport for travel, and so they should.


----------



## michaelm

PGF2016 said:


> The only thing stopping a large swatch of twenty somethings buying a car or a house is their own spending habits. In my opinion.


Or could it be the opposite?  Houses prices are out of reach for many (especially in Dublin) so they just spend their money as they like rather than being a bean counter.


----------



## Ceist Beag

michaelm said:


> Or could it be the opposite?  Houses prices are out of reach for many (especially in Dublin) so they just spend their money as they like rather than being a bean counter.


Or could it be that people no longer expect to have to save for 5 years before they are in a position to buy their first home? Are prices really that much higher now or is this just what we're being told by the media? A quick look on daft.ie shows that apartments in D15 are going for similar prices to what they were 17 years ago (maybe up to 5% more now). Granted the volume of available apartments may not be there right now and the lending criteria may be stricter but is it still beyond people to save a deposit for a starter home in 5 years now?


----------



## PGF2016

michaelm said:


> Or could it be the opposite?  Houses prices are out of reach for many (especially in Dublin) so they just spend their money as they like rather than being a bean counter.


I've worked with graduates in IT who earn more than 60k in their late twenties. The only reason why they can't afford some sort of place in Dublin is due to their spending habits.  

Yes - that is a good wage but there are many on similar. 

Not sure about the girl in last night's episode as I haven't watched it yet.


----------



## michaelm

D15 may not represent the relative average across Dublin.  

When we bought our first house (3 bed semi) in the mid 90's I think we got a 90% mortgage over 20 years based on 3.5 x salary + other salary.  It was a stretch and a bit of financial gymnastics but we had the prospect of inflation and related wage increases to get the mortgage of our backs relatively quickly.  Now it seems houses (in Dublin and the commuter belt anyway) are more expensive relative to earnings, mortgages are then necessarily longer and with low inflation and wage increases the debt can weigh heavily.


----------



## michaelm

There is probably a set who can't afford a house because of their spending and a set who spend because they can't afford a house.  And some people who think they are in second set but are actually in the first.

Maybe people expect to finance a fancy wedding first and then move into to a fully kitted out house.  When I think on it, my wedding cost <£2,000 Punts and I had a plastic garden table and chairs in my kitchen for over a year .


----------



## RedOnion

michaelm said:


> When I think on it, my wedding cost <£2,000 Punts and I had a plastic garden table and chairs in my kitchen for over a year


Yep, I've been at weddings like that too...
Stay out a little too late, and you wake up at home the next morning wondering where the picnic table came from!


----------



## Connard

WaterWater said:


> We saw her getting in to a taxi to go to the airport. There are plenty of buses, aircoach etc, that provide a service to the airport. It struck me that it would never have occurred to her to get a bus, even if the trip was for business.



If I go to the airport for a personal trip I take the bus (unless it's at a time when the buses aren't running but I've never had that problem). For work though, I get a taxi as I can expense it.

I was surprised at how quickly she changed her habits. Going from saving nothing or borrowing money from friends so she can go on a night out to saving €500 in month 1 and €700 a month after that is pretty damn good.


----------



## Steven Barrett

WaterWater said:


> We saw her getting in to a taxi to go to the airport. There are plenty of buses, aircoach etc, that provide a service to the airport. It struck me that it would never have occurred to her to get a bus, even if the trip was for business.



Probably more to do with the production company than reality. They can hire a taxi for the time they need to do all the filming, taking shots at different angles etc. A lot harder to do that with a bus full of people. 

Don't believe everything you see on tv


----------



## odyssey06

I go to the airport about 2-3 times a year and usually have a fair bit of luggage. I'd have to take two buses, one to the city centre (taking me actually further from the airport) and then one out to the airport. Taxi makes more sense I think...


----------



## domainer222

Since the marginal rate went to 52% a heck of a lot of people have become a heck of a lot smarter at saving the cents.

This has a lot of ramifications for the economy as this cohort will probably not make the same spending mistakes again.  An end to flalhuileach-ness!


----------



## Cervelo

Not sure what to make of this weeks show, they seem like a normal family that just needs a small bit of financial housekeeping and they will continue to trudge along like any other family in their position
What isn't adding up for me is Eoin's financial independence assessment that they can reduce it in 14 years from 73 to 59 and be "Financial independent" with two kids under the age of 20
I know we are only getting a snap shot of the whole story but I would have like to see more of the calculations that allowed Eoin to make this claim because to me it just doesn't add up


----------



## RETIRED2017

Cervelo said:


> Not sure what to make of this weeks show, they seem like a normal family that just needs a small bit of financial housekeeping and they will continue to trudge along like any other family in their position
> What isn't adding up for me is Eoin's financial independence assessment that they can reduce it in 14 years from 73 to 59 and be "Financial independent" with two kids under the age of 20
> I know we are only getting a snap shot of the whole story but I would have like to see more of the calculations that allowed Eoin to make this claim because to me it just doesn't add up


Proper long term planning for retirement on there income by paying into a pension and having a life while working on there income level is the point he was getting across,
The point he is making is once you start working and pay into a pension straight away you have the option to retire early,
I do remember when Eoin said from 73 to 59 years the first thing the couple said  do we want to retire at 59 nice to have a plan in place if they change there mind,
I was glad Eoin included pensions and pointed out if you start in time you can invest for long term higher returns ,


----------



## Daddy Ireland

Cervelo said:


> Not sure what to make of this weeks show, they seem like a normal family that just needs a small bit of financial housekeeping and they will continue to trudge along like any other family in their position
> What isn't adding up for me is Eoin's financial independence assessment that they can reduce it in 14 years from 73 to 59 and be "Financial independent" with two kids under the age of 20
> I know we are only getting a snap shot of the whole story but I would have like to see more of the calculations that allowed Eoin to make this claim because to me it just doesn't add up


One second Eoin mentioned x amount of money in pension should  the guy work to 65 and then hands him an envelope showing him to be financially independent at 59.  I too would have like to see more of the calculations.


----------



## Coldwarrior

Daddy Ireland said:


> I too would have like to see more of the calculations.



Agreed, I enjoyed the show but it would have been good to show a lot more of the budgets/numbers throughout the series.


----------



## gnf_ireland

I viewed the programme for the first time last night. I have to say I found it very disappointing overall. Outside of the lack of numbers & calculations (which does not make good tv), I found the following to be very one-sided
1. The family loans were really treated with disrespect. Chances are they have come from her parents, and while they may not need the money immediately, there is no point kicking the repayment schedule down the road. Chances are by dropping the repayment by 40%, one of both of the parents will have passed away by the time the repayments come to an end. The 'parents' done a very generous thing by loaning the money interest free - but it is still debt with commitments attached to it. Personally, I would have preferred the programme to say if you wish to loan money to your children, offer it at a tracker rate of ECB +x%, so there is an incentive to pay it back
2. They talked about moving money from post office to investment account and making 17k more over the term. But it did not talk about the downsides. No mention of whether this was before or after tax and the fact that you can also lose money in the process, or losses on one fund can not be offset against gains on the other. I think it was a good opportunity to explain where its good to use investments, what type to look at (index or managed), the types of funds out there and the charges you would expect to pay on them. Should also have suggested the concept of a investment broker - fee based or commission based etc. A lost opportunity I thought
3. Similarly re pension - it was a good option to explain how a pension works, the advantage of compounding etc, and explaining it works in your favour for pensions/investments but against you for debt
4. I also believe that for 80% of people, they should pay down their mortgage before considering private investments. Anyone paying 3% on mortgage interest needs to be 6% before tax, and this money is not risk free. The best way to save for university is to clear the mortgage prior to this (if possible), so the mortgage payments can be redirected to university costs.
5. Financial Independence should have been explained as the age where your pensions, investments & savings mean you no longer need to work to support your lifestyle. I think this was not really explained sufficiently

I also wondered about ages of the people - is there any change that they will be able to draw down their pension BEFORE the children start/finish university. If so, and given the fact that you can draw down your pension without actually retiring, was there any merits in investing 450 into a pension (instead of 280 into an investment) and draw down the pension lump sum to pay for university !! I think some 'left field' ideas like that may resonate more with people.

The one good thing I got from the programme was there are disadvantages with being too financially conservative and a balance is definitely needed. 

Finally, I thought it would have been a great opportunity to mention the concept of an ISA and why it would be a good idea in Ireland for things like saving for university. Unless someone starts the discussion, its never going to gain any traction. Saving a max of 250 a month (after tax) into a tax free savings plan would be huge for someone saving towards university.


----------



## RETIRED2017

I think the days of ISA are gone we have a good  tax break in place for Contributing over your working life to fund your retirement ,

The problem is we have lots of people coming to Ireland who will be working on or below the  average industrial wage ,

these are the people who will need to be looked after and a system put in place to ensure they will be able to retire when they reach pension age,or hit health Issues

lots of people on low incomes may finish up unable to work until the reach  retirement because of underline health issues ,

I think Eoin was nudging us to start changing our ways and plan for retirement,there will be lots who plan to retire at 65 who finished up having to retire a few years earlier,
Only a certain % of people well be in a position to pay down there mortgages ,
I think Eoin was more interested in advising people to save who are never going to be in the above group,
Note Eoin said Financial Independent at 59,not retired but having a plan if you had to,


----------



## 2Clueless

Turned off mid programme-very nice couple but found it a bit boring. I couldn’t really relate to them as they spent so little on treats


----------



## Cervelo

RETIRED2017 said:


> Note Eoin said Financial Independent at 59,not retired but having a plan if you had to,



Eoin's understanding of "Financial independence" is
"Every person has a day in their life when they have created enough wealth, where they don't have to worry about money again and don't have to work"
Eoin did the "maths" for this couple and he came up with 73 at the beginning of the show but by the end of the show he some how got that down to 59

Eoin is not advising this couple that if they "had" to retire they could but rather that they are going to able to retire at 59 or at least that was my understanding of the show


----------



## RETIRED2017

Cervelo said:


> Eoin's understanding of "Financial independence" is
> "Every person has a day in their life when they have created enough wealth, where they don't have to worry about money again and don't have to work"
> Eoin did the "maths" for this couple and he came up with 73 at the beginning of the show but by the end of the show he some how got that down to 59
> 
> Eoin is not advising this couple that if they "had" to retire they could but rather that they are going to able to retire at 59 or at least that was my understanding of the show


I think the point Eoin was making was if the changed the way they were living/saving and took advantage of the pension contributions tax break of course they will be in a better position to retire years earlier,


I don't  expecting  Eoin be able to forecast the future or any other Financial advisor for that matter,  people who put a plan in place early in there working lives along the lines the couple are now following have a better chance of creating enough wealth to retire early if the want to,


----------



## Gordon Gekko

He has a very nice manner. I enjoyed it. I also like (and agree with) his point that it does not make sense to pay down one’s mortgage too aggressively and at the expense of pension funding.

e.g. two people, one who owes €600k and the other who owes €700k but has €100k in cash

The first person is in greater danger


----------



## RETIRED2017

Gordon Gekko said:


> He has a very nice manner. I enjoyed it. I also like (and agree with) his point that it does not make sense to pay down one’s mortgage too aggressively and at the expense of pension funding.
> 
> e.g. two people, one who owes €600k and the other who owes €700k but has €100k in cash
> 
> The first person is in greater danger


I agree ,
I know back around 1985 They Company I worked for put in a pension scheme for people on average industrial wage, there were some people who were not in favour of it because they did not think they could afford it, I do be talking to some of the people who were against paying into a pension back then,

Every single one of them are glad pension scheme went ahead ,

This advice of paying down mortgage ahead of starting a pension is advice from the well off who are out of touch with your average worker,


----------



## Gordon Gekko

I’ve heard too many sad stories lately of people who plan for a retirement that never happens.

If you’ve two grand to spare, take your kids to Disney World.


----------



## Cervelo

Gordon Gekko said:


> I’ve heard too many sad stories lately of people who plan for a retirement that never happens.
> 
> If you’ve two grand to spare, take your kids to Disney World.



Sage advice Gordon but unfortunately most either save as if their going to live forever or spend like there's no tomorrow


----------



## Easeler

You should be winding down from 50 on maybe 4 days a week 60 maybe 3 days 70 maybe 2 and keep doing a bit. met a 70 year old man who is starting new job on Monday he delighted with himself. He only retired 3 months ago he couldn't hack it at all.


----------



## RETIRED2017

galwaypat said:


> You should be winding down from 50 on maybe 4 days a week 60 maybe 3 days 70 maybe 2 and keep doing a bit. met a 70 year old man who is starting new job on Monday he delighted with himself. He only retired 3 months ago he couldn't hack it at all.


He should take time out to find out what the people coming behind him are up to, 
I suspect he could stay retire from a money point of view if he wanted to ,



If you find work you enjoy you are already retired,


----------



## Armada

What I thought was unusual, was that at the start Eoin informed us that the couple have a second property with a mortgage of only 70k on it.

Never at any point did they discuss disposing of it to pay back the family loan or mortgage and invest any balance then into a pension.

Quite a good programme and Eoin is an excellent presenter but it’s a pity that it doesn’t offer more in-depth information.


----------



## HollowKnight

I'm guessing that it's partly TV people saying the numbers would be boring and partly to protect the participants of the show.


----------



## adox

I’ve found the format overall just too short at 30 minutes with sound bites for financial advise rather than actually seeing them in action. 

The episode just gone I did find the most enjoyable of the series so far.  The other were really(or seems to me at least) extreme cases where people have no sense of the value 9f money at all. 

This weeks was a family that’s we’re earning well and tried to look after their money but he pointed out how a few changes could be of huge benefit to them in the medium to long term. 
Most of the other episodes were a case of “stop spending all your income and put some structure in place”

The half hour format really doesn’t work at all though.


----------



## messyleo

I see Eoin is MD of enough.ie and they seem to be running seminars etc. aimed at the general public who want to learn more

€50 for 2 hours is a bit pricey though for what seems like basic information imo - you could probably get the same from one of those personal finance books
https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/enough-finance-seminar-tickets-55044185641


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## gnf_ireland

RETIRED2017 said:


> I think the days of ISA are gone we have a good tax break in place for Contributing over your working life to fund your retirement ,



You bring up two points here, and I would like to address both of them.

Firstly I am not talking about SSIA where the government 'topped up' the money deposited into the savings accounts. I am talking of an ISA scheme, similar to the UK where a capped amount of money goes into the fund net of tax and the funds grow in the fund tax free - so no DIRT, Exit Tax or CGT. This would be the perfect type of vehicle for the couple like this who wish to be financially sensible and plan for their future kids education, as well as someone saving a deposit for a house or wish to have a cushion to fall back on if something happens.

Its all well and good saying there are decent tax breaks for those investing in pensions - but a large cohort of people are not willing to put away money for that length of time. People need to have reasonable cushions before thinking of pension plans and this is part of the whole issue with it. The tax breaks for pensions are too generous - the 2 million limit is simply too high to impact most people. It needs to be reduced to 1 million, and any savings outside of that for retirement needs to be part of personal savings options complementing pensions.  
However, to offset this there should be an alternative vehicle put in place that allows people to save and grow their savings tax free (to a limit - even say 250 euro a month) and allows them access it when they need to - say child's education, house purchase deposit or whatever. 
I have no doubt that the next bump in the road is less than 3 years away - and I have no doubt there are a large chunk of people currently living pay cheque to pay cheque with little to no savings. These are not necessarily the low incomes, but also chucks of middle income as well. I firmly believe an ISA type structure would encourage a portion of those to put some funds away for the rainy day - long before pension age kicks in.




RETIRED2017 said:


> The problem is we have lots of people coming to Ireland who will be working on or below the average industrial wage ,
> these are the people who will need to be looked after and a system put in place to ensure they will be able to retire when they reach pension age,or hit health Issues



I will ignore the element of "people coming into Ireland" and focus on the low income element of your statement. Absolutely, we have a pension time bomb going off, but not only for lower income groups. Lots of middle income groups are in the same category with little to know pension pot in place. This was no different to the couple in the programme - the reasons their financial independence age was so high was because their pension pot was so under funded. 33% of private sector workers have a private pension and the average pension payout is less than 6k per annum (journal source so taken with a pinch of salt). A pension of this size is simply a top-up on the state pension, not a replacement for it. I would be amazed if the retirement age was not raised to 70 by the time I am due to retire (I am 43). The question is how many will be in a position to work, and be able to get a job at 70 !!!

I believe the entire system needs an overhaul, and compulsory pensions need to be introduced across the board. I also think the amounts needs to be increased from 6% by both to 15% from employers and 10% from employees, with the employee permitted to add additional AVC's of 10%. But 35% should be the limit, regardless of age or pension type, and full alignment should be done across all pension types (PRSA, Occupational, Executive etc). There should be no reason for having different types of pensions - they are all just a savings account for retirement.

I also believe that all defined benefit pensions in the private sector should be closed down, turned into defined contribution and the employer should be 35% of the salary per year into the fund. There are too many underfunded pension pots, and these need to be separated and properly funded. The company should not be permitted to pay dividends until the pension transfer is adequately funded.
The public sector pensions are another matter - personally I would like to see minimum of 25% of the public sector salaries paid into the National Pension Reserve Fund which is constitutionally protected from raiding so the pension entitlements of current employees are adequately funded for, and not simply a liability on our children. I think we have put enough of debt on them to date.

https://www.independent.ie/business...on-do-not-know-how-to-start-one-35456462.html
https://www.thejournal.ie/pension-cover-ireland-2565427-Jan2016/


----------



## gnf_ireland

gravitygirl said:


> I see Eoin is MD of enough.ie and they seem to be running seminars etc. aimed at the general public who want to learn more
> 
> €50 for 2 hours is a bit pricey though for what seems like basic information imo - you could probably get the same from one of those personal finance books
> https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/enough-finance-seminar-tickets-55044185641



Personally I think these types of courses should be available free, run in conjunction with MABS. They have an education function, but don't appear to be anything similar to this and really do not understand why... 
https://www.mabs.ie/en/how_we_help/education/


----------



## gnf_ireland

HollowKnight said:


> I'm guessing that it's partly TV people saying the numbers would be boring and partly to protect the participants of the show.


Yes, budget numbers does not make good TV ...


----------



## PGF2016

gnf_ireland said:


> Personally I think these types of courses should be available free, run in conjunction with MABS. They have an education function, but don't appear to be anything similar to this and really do not understand why...
> https://www.mabs.ie/en/how_we_help/education/


Get rid of religious education in school and start teaching courses like this. Financial literacy.


----------



## gnf_ireland

PGF2016 said:


> Get rid of religious education in school and start teaching courses like this. Financial literacy.



To be fair, we need to stop blaming the church for what is happening in the schools. They may run them from an admin point of view, but the department are the ones that sets the curriculum. Currently there are modules of financial literacy included in subjects such as business organisation (or whatever its called now), but would make more sense to me a module in the Transition Year programme, if it belongs anywhere in second level.

In my personal view, it does not belong in secondary school - as financial literacy means very little to those not earning a proper salary. Personally, I would have it as a mandatory course (potentially different modules/focus) which should be triggered at various events in a persons life (either linked to Revenue or Social Welfare), for example:
- first job, as a precondition to being issued the personal tax credit
- first time being self-employed - similarly precondition to earned income credit
- signing onto social welfare for the first time
- availing of joint assessment tax assessment for the first time (and if you go back to single assessment afterwards)
- availing of children's allowance for the first time
- setting up a pension for the first time
- drawing down your pension for the first time
- availing of any tax break associated to a mortgage facility

Would everyone learn something from it - yeah probably. Would a few wise souls on AAM get frustrated by having to attend it - yeah maybe, but in the grand scheme of things it would be beneficial to everyone. We all have to sit a driver theory test, do the required number of lessons, sit the driving test etc - this is just something similar but from a financial point of view.

I think the State needs to stop trying to outsource its responsibilities to others, whether it be charities, church or ANO. The state should '_man up_' and recognise too many citizens in the country are not financially literate enough, and actually go do something about it.


----------



## gnf_ireland

PGF2016 said:


> Get rid of religious education in school


And for the record, I made my feelings on religious education in schools and religious ownership of schools known during the consultation process on the matter, about a year ago. Sightly off topic, I know, but just wanted to make that point in case people think I am defending them.


----------



## mugsymugsy

I don't understand why things like tax or interest rates are not taught. We should be teaching children about how to work out what happens if they take out debt and how it costs. Should show them how through education and training they can earn more so they can afford holidays etc


----------



## RentingD

Gnf i'm laughimg at the thoughts of having to do such a module to access the first children's allowance! There could be a few more modules introduced at that time - how to get the child to sleep for beginners!!


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Or concepts like striving to repay one’s mortgage early.

Killing off a mortgage of €2k a month typically gives someone the flexibility to sacrifice income of €50k a year through working a shorter week, consulting etc.

That’s serious freedom.


----------



## gnf_ireland

mugsymugsy said:


> I don't understand why things like tax or interest rates are not taught. We should be teaching children about how to work out what happens if they take out debt and how it costs. Should show them how through education and training they can earn more so they can afford holidays etc



Tax and Interest rates are taught - but as part of the Economics course.

What you are talking about there are more life skills, and you could include things like the difference between voting in European Elections, National Elections and Local Elections also. As I said above, it is probably better suited to a Transition Year programme than anything else. If its not an exam subject, very few schools will give any focus to it.

To be fair to second level students, their knowledge about mathematics is probably far in excess of most other groups given the amount of complex maths they do on a daily basis. Its the practical application of this, and most 14-17 year olds don't care about pensions, mortgages etc.


----------



## gnf_ireland

RentingD said:


> Gnf i'm laughimg at the thoughts of having to do such a module to access the first children's allowance! There could be a few more modules introduced at that time - how to get the child to sleep for beginners!!


You may laugh, and you are probably right given the current focus on personal finance in Ireland. We have no issue/surprise doing the ante-natal course about what to expect when we go to hospital, or a number of other things around that time. Personally I would also include infant first aid in it also !
But whether we like it or not, having a child especially the first one turns most peoples finances upside down, whether it be a drop in income, the harsh reality of childcare costs, the cost of nappies/formula etc. My draft list was around times when personal finances change dramatically ! We can swap it to availing of maternity benefit if that helps


----------



## gnf_ireland

Gordon Gekko said:


> Or concepts like striving to repay one’s mortgage early.
> Killing off a mortgage of €2k a month typically gives someone the flexibility to sacrifice income of €50k a year through working a shorter week, consulting etc.
> That’s serious freedom.



I agree that this is a very valid concept, in addition to the benefits of compounding when its in your favour. The question I have though is what 14-17 year old will have any interest or practical understanding of this? Surely its more beneficial to align something like this to when the person is purchasing the house and availing of some sort of tax relief (between TRS, help to buy etc)

I am all for education on personal finance - but it has to be relevant to when people need it, not when they are in secondary school and have different priorities.


----------



## gnf_ireland

RETIRED2017 said:


> Just when the thirty/ forty something on hear are about to retire early the government start running out of money ,I suspect taxes will have to be put on all of the houses with no mortgages and anything that cannot be moved overseas will be taxed if not taken out in time,



Like a lot of private companies, the government also need to have a plan to tackle digital disruption. They cannot simply rest on their laurels and expect the FDI model that worked for the last ~20 years will continue to work for the next 50. It simply does not work like that. While they have have some 'success' in the short term on the digital tax, they are on a losing battle over the next 5 years - there is simply too much money at stake for the larger countries to ignore it. How it is addressed, I have no issue - but a plan will definitely be needed.
Increasing property tax is probably inevitable, but I don't see how they can distinguish between someone with a charge on the mortgage and those without. Some smart bank would just bring out a 0% offset mortgage for qualifying customers and bypass the scheme that way. That type of proposal seems so far away from the current proposals around exempting OAP from property tax !


----------



## losttheplot

I always thought that it should be taught in schools. But think back to the first episode, it was a business teacher.


----------



## Ceist Beag

Look there's a lot of talk on here about teaching children financial literacy either in schools but let's be honest here, children learn how to behave with money from their parents. So I'd agree with the idea put forward by gnf here, start with the parents. If they can be shown how to handle money then their children will learn from them. I would also agree with the point above - many teachers I know would not be my idea of role models for financial advice.


----------



## gnf_ireland

losttheplot said:


> I always thought that it should be taught in schools. But think back to the first episode, it was a business teacher.





Ceist Beag said:


> I would also agree with the point above - many teachers I know would not be my idea of role models for financial advice.


Very valid points here - most teachers I know are not very good with money. They also have no concept on how much it would cost to fund their pension etc.
Personally I would prefer if teachers had a minimal role to play here, outside of a potential transition year project which I can see value with, if it includes representatives from industry (even if they are parents etc)



mugsymugsy said:


> Should show them how through education and training they can earn more so they can afford holidays etc


I would have thought this was more basic career guidance! That said I imagine that is also non-existent in most schools still. Career guidance in my day was - are you going to the Ag College? If not, there are a list of prospectuses in the office if you want to have a look before filling out your CAO form..


----------



## gnf_ireland

Ceist Beag said:


> Look there's a lot of talk on here about teaching children financial literacy either in schools but let's be honest here, children learn how to behave with money from their parents.


Absolutely 100% !


----------



## so-crates

gnf_ireland said:


> To be fair, we need to stop blaming the church for what is happening in the schools. They may run them from an admin point of view, but the department are the ones that sets the curriculum. Currently there are modules of financial literacy included in subjects such as business organisation (or whatever its called now), but would make more sense to me a module in the Transition Year programme, if it belongs anywhere in second level.
> 
> In my personal view, it does not belong in secondary school - as financial literacy means very little to those not earning a proper salary. Personally, I would have it as a mandatory course (potentially different modules/focus) which should be triggered at various events in a persons life (either linked to Revenue or Social Welfare), for example:
> - first job, as a precondition to being issued the personal tax credit
> - first time being self-employed - similarly precondition to earned income credit
> - signing onto social welfare for the first time
> - availing of joint assessment tax assessment for the first time (and if you go back to single assessment afterwards)
> - availing of children's allowance for the first time
> - setting up a pension for the first time
> - drawing down your pension for the first time
> - availing of any tax break associated to a mortgage facility
> 
> Would everyone learn something from it - yeah probably. Would a few wise souls on AAM get frustrated by having to attend it - yeah maybe, but in the grand scheme of things it would be beneficial to everyone. We all have to sit a driver theory test, do the required number of lessons, sit the driving test etc - this is just something similar but from a financial point of view.
> 
> I think the State needs to stop trying to outsource its responsibilities to others, whether it be charities, church or ANO. The state should '_man up_' and recognise too many citizens in the country are not financially literate enough, and actually go do something about it.



To my mind, financial literacy should be included in schooling from primary up (post-school I think that your suggested education points would also be worth exploring, whether mandated or optional). I think starting in secondary school is too late, and including it in a specialist subject is too narrow. I would see it being included by means of a continuous age-appropriate curriculum similar to the Stay Safe programme.


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## gnf_ireland

so-crates said:


> To my mind, financial literacy should be included in schooling from primary up (post-school I think that your suggested education points would also be worth exploring, whether mandated or optional). I think starting in secondary school is too late, and including it in a specialist subject is too narrow. I would see it being included by means of a continuous age-appropriate curriculum similar to the Stay Safe programme.



To be fair, Stay Safe is directly relevant to children. Children are at a very big risk of abuse by adults, and the Stay Safe programme is designed to address this risk. 

Financial Literacy is not as relevant to a primary school child. Yes, parents have a responsibility to teach children the value of money - but I do not believe this is the role of the school. Maybe its just me, but I don't believe that parents should abdicate all responsibilities to the school and blame the school when it goes wrong.

While in time, there may be benefits in doing topics like this in school, I don't believe it should be a priority. Priority at the moment should be those who earn and spend right now, given the level of financial literacy present today. I am all for preparing future generations, but I believe the problem needs to be addressed here and now.

Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think this is too important to kick down the road (like we like to do with everything)


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## so-crates

I agree with your sentiment on not kicking the can down the road but I think in order to embed it culturally in Ireland school is the optimal place to start. As for it being a parental responsibility, of course it is, however not all parents are equipped to manage their own finances let alone pass on wisdom to their children, such a programme is a framework which should include parents in teaching the child. Giving them the tools that they themselves may never have had. It isn't about kicking the can down the road, it is about starting the journey somewhere.


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## Khublei

I'm a secondary school teacher. I can tell you, very very few of them would listen/have an interest when they're not working and have no income to try juggle. If we ever say something like - you earn €30k in that job they're like "Holy cow! €30k! I can buy a brand new €30k car every year so". They don't have a concept of what it's like to manage on that until they have to pay bills etc. 

Whenever there's something in the news like bullying, obesity, sex ed the usual answer is "It should be taught in schools!". Fact is government won't pay for people to come in and do it properly so you end up with schmucks like me teaching sex ed to 13 year olds. Parents need to take responsibility for these things.


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## noproblem

Sex education, manners, dress, parenting, money management, respect, bullying, etc, etc, etc are all pushed on to teachers and school. Can someone tell me what parents do today apart from spending what they don't have, getting others in to mind their children, complain when everything goes wrong and of course get on to Talk to Joe to push the agenda. Time for the goverment to bring out a licence for anyone who wants to become a parent in Ireland and charge well for the service along with a full practical testing procedure.


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## RETIRED2017

Noproblem you must be new to AAM sure the young people of today are away better than our generation or so say the people who know how to fix every problem in Ireland ,
We need to keep the money away from the people who earn it but don't know how to mind it,


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## gnf_ireland

Khublei said:


> Whenever there's something in the news like bullying, obesity, sex ed the usual answer is "It should be taught in schools!". Fact is government won't pay for people to come in and do it properly


The difference as I see it with the above topics and financial responsibility is bullying, obesity and sex ed is exceptionally relevant to most teenagers and therefore school makes sense as its very timely. The fact the government wont pay for it is another matter - and does not take away from where it should be addressed for maximum benefit



Khublei said:


> If we ever say something like - you earn €30k in that job they're like "Holy cow! €30k! I can buy a brand new €30k car every year so".


I think this line is more aligned to my issue on doing it in school - very few teenagers have any notion of money etc, so having a theoretical discussion with them on it loses relevance. It needs to be done at a timely matter when it makes sense and is relevant to people



so-crates said:


> I think in order to embed it culturally in Ireland school is the optimal place to start


And @so-crates this is where we can agree to disagree. I don't feel school is the place to do this until it becomes a more established reality in society. The only way to embed it is to force people to change - hence my view on aligning it to social welfare/tax credits to ensure people are discussing money at a time relevant to them.


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## gnf_ireland

noproblem said:


> Time for the goverment to bring out a licence for anyone who wants to become a parent in Ireland and charge well for the service along with a full practical testing procedure.



As those in rural Ireland would say:
- you need a licence to own a dog, but not to have a child
- we can trace back the lineage of all cattle in the country but not the children. Father unknown is not permitted on the cattle identity card (or so I am told!!)


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## RedOnion

gnf_ireland said:


> Father unknown is not permitted on the cattle identity card (or so I am told!!)


You have to remember with pedigree cattle you'd normally be boasting about who the father is!


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## noproblem

Don't know why rural Ireland's being emphasised, a lot of scrub bulls and similar running amok in the cities by too all accounts. All joking asides though, this one parent stuff's getting completely out of order and being allowed to do so as well.


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## RETIRED2017

noproblem said:


> Don't know why rural Ireland's being emphasised, a lot of scrub bulls and similar running amok in the cities by too all accounts. All joking asides though, this one parent stuff's getting completely out of order and being allowed to do so as well.


I like the way you used one parent instead of single parent was that deliberate,the single parent allowance is peanuts when you compared it to the single farm payment in rural Ireland,

When I got my free pass a few years back I went for a spin on the train from Dublin to your neck of the woods Galway City,

 I got off at several Rural stops and had a good look around one of the stops Woodlawn station near Galway City ,

 I was expecting it to be more prosperous seeing it was near Galway City,

farmland looked unfarmed I got talking to some locals they put it down to the  single farm payment and reps which paid you not to farm,

I noticed there were  lots of buggies around there explanation was you have to be doing something while lying in  bed waiting on the single payment cheque to arrive,
Just want to point out I have no Issues with the Single Farm Payment ,

Lobby groups getting special deals for there members and giving very little back in return is a major problem , will cripple this Country long term,


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## RETIRED2017

Gordon Gekko said:


> Or concepts like striving to repay one’s mortgage early.
> 
> Killing off a mortgage of €2k a month typically gives someone the flexibility to sacrifice income of €50k a year through working a shorter week, consulting etc.
> 
> That’s serious freedom.


A course on the sustainability of our tax system and questioning do I get value for money would do parents /teachers /and young people the world of good ,will my tax cover commitments into the future,


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## losttheplot

A nice little snappy App for young kids could help. A simulation where they have to manage a budget, pay bills etc working towards a goal (buying a house, holiday etc). Wonder does one exist.


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## noproblem

There is, it's called parenting.


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## losttheplot

But you need something kids would pay attention to.


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## gnf_ireland

losttheplot said:


> A nice little snappy App for young kids could help. A simulation where they have to manage a budget, pay bills etc working towards a goal (buying a house, holiday etc). Wonder does one exist.


I don't know if one exists, but I know a guy who was doing some self-training in the blockchain area and ended up building a cybercurrency to reward the kids for work done (based on smart contracts). These rewards/tokens where then exchanged for 'treats' such as internet time etc. He claims it really brought the training to life


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