# Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiality



## jenroo (24 May 2009)

Hi,

I'm just looking for some advice please. 

My husband and I have a joint account which has an overdraft facility of 3k, two months ago the bank decided to revoke our facility (not enough days in credit) we explained that we were not in a position to pay it off at once, but would eliminate it over 6 months, it now stands at €2,300.

Separately I have a loan of 15k, my husband was not aware of my loan and I have been paying it back over the last 2 years with 3 years to go.

The bank sent us a letter last week reminding us of the overdraft facility, my husband called them to explain again that we were reducing it with gradual payments and the person on the phone told him he has 'associated debt' of 16k.  He freaked obviously, and is threatening to leave me, we have 3 children and I know this has destroyed his trust in me.

Setting aside the moral issues of whether I should have told him (obviously I should have) have the bank breached confidentiality? If they have do I have any recourse due to the detrimental affect it has had on our relationship?

Any advice gratefully received.


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## Smashbox (24 May 2009)

*Re: Breach of Confidentiality*

You say you have a loan seperatly, how did you do this? Because you also say you have a joint account. Did you use anything as security for the loan?


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## jenroo (24 May 2009)

*Re: Breach of Confidentiality*



Smashbox said:


> You say you have a loan seperatly, how did you do this? Because you also say you have a joint account. Did you use anything as security for the loan?



I have my own current account and applied for the loan based on my own income and assets, nothing was used as security for the loan


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## Mommah (24 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

I imagine you probably do on a technicality.
But given you have a joint account in the same bank it wasn't unreasonable of them to bring it up.

I think focusing on seeking damages from the bank at this point is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

You may find that because you have a joint account, your husband is liable for your debt anyway.

Your energies could be put to better use increasing your income, decreasing your expenses and trying to rationalise your hidden debt to your shocked spouse.


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## jenroo (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Thank you for your reply Mommah, I'm not actually looking for damages from the bank, a simple apology would suffice. I don't think it's right that a bank can disclose your personal financial details to anyone even if they are your spouse.


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## TarfHead (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

I can see how this could happen, though would not excuse it. The Bank are looking at the overall picture. The existence of the joint account blurs the lines between what is personal and what is joint, given that repayments are due on both.

I believe that, given all that you have disclosed, a _breach of confidentiality_ by the Bank should be low on your list of priorities.


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## moneyhoney (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



TarfHead said:


> I believe that, given all that you have disclosed, a _breach of confidentiality_ by the Bank should be low on your list of priorities.



I don't agree. I would take this sort of thing quite seriously. 

I'd make a complaint to the bank & outline what sort of outcome you want - apology etc. 

Your issues with your husband are quite a separate matter.


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## onq (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



jenroo said:


> Thank you for your reply Mommah, I'm not actually looking for damages from the bank, a simple apology would suffice. I don't think it's right that a bank can disclose your personal financial details to anyone even if they are your spouse.



In your initial post you refer to "recourse" which I think could be fairly inerpreted as "legal recourse" by some people - I think that's where that query came from 
However in relation to the bank, I think you may have them over a barrel on a confidential matter.
Matters in relation to the joint account were theirs to discuss with your husband.
If the loan of 15K was separately applied for and not justified using your husband's finances or secured on the joint account, I'm not sure the Bank had any right to discuss it with him, or refer to it in conversation.
Personally I think they were pressuring you unduly in relation to the existing debt of 2.3K overdraft facility, which you were already paying off.
They had no business discussing the other debt with anyone but the account holder.
I mean both my wife and I have taken calls on each others accounts from the Bank we're with and the caller wouldn't speak to either of us about the others account.

I don't know where this might lead, and you really need an expert in banking ethics to comment, and this may all stand or fall on current practices.

That having been said, I imagine there is more than one spouse in the country who keeps financial matters private from their life partner.
Notice I said "spouse" not "wife".
There is almost a tradition of husbands keeping material things secret from their wives, so its sad to think one little deception is looked on as grounds for divorce if the wife does it.

See if the bank has a liability, then use it to reduce your loan.
Perhaps a good personal injuries lawyer could help - just watch the fees.

On a separate but relater matter:
Yes, perhaos you were unwise, but your actions in keeping the 15K loan secret can easily be axplained in the current economic climate as fear: fear of worrying your spouse and/or fear of losing him for prior non-disclosure.

On a resolution of this faux pas on your part:
See if your husband has kept *anything* hidden from you at *any* time in your relationship.
Don't hire a private investigator, just ask him, he's male and is probably stupid enough to admit it or nice enough to blush.

You are then arguing about the degree of the offence, not the kind of offence.
And if all else fails, remember - marriage is about the fun you can have making up, or making the other partner pay - so enjoy whatever comes your way.

HTH


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## TarfHead (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



onq said:


> Matters in relation to the joint account were theirs to discuss with your husband.
> If the loan of 15K was separately applied for and not justified using your husband's finances or secured on the joint account, I'm not sure the Bank had any right to discuss it with him, or refer to it in conversation.


 
It's hard to see how the bank could have a full and frank discussion with the husband about the couple's ability to pay down the overdraft, without referencing the wife's obligation to concurrently continue pay down the 15K personal loan.

I am not excusing the bank, or seeking to justify the disclosure.


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## onq (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



TarfHead said:


> It's hard to see how the bank could have a full and frank discussion with the husband about the couple's ability to pay down the overdraft, without referencing the wife's obligation to concurrently continue pay down the 15K personal loan.
> 
> I am not excusing the bank, or seeking to justify the disclosure.



I understand your position, but I find that the Banks pursuit of the couple when they are already paying off both the overdraft and the loan unhelpful, and possibly bordering on harassment.

I admit its hard to get a good picture of what actually went on in situations when you're on a board like this getting everything from one party, however straight and honest that party may be - there are always two sides to a story, even when both parties are telling the truth as they see it.

There seems to have been no need for a call from the bank at all, and the husband may have reacted on that basis, thus prompting the caller, who may or may not have been a relatively inexperienced bank clerk, to raise the ante by bringing something into the conversation that wasn't relevant to the account under discussion.

I think that the "full and frank" issue may not really come into it.

By referring to a matter not related to the account under review, by revealing information private to a separate individual, whether married to the first individual or not, the bank may be in breach of the Data Protection Act, with the potentially serious consequences for the spouse as noted by the OP.

There may be "get-out-clauses" in said Act in relation to husbands and wives between themselves, but I'm not sure any distinction is made between married persons and single people where data protection is concerned.

Unless there's a principle of law somewhere that states that married spouses cannot have areas of their lives private from their partners, I think the bank my have a case to answer.

Assault on the person can occur within a marriage as an indictable offence, so I would be surprised if breach of data protection cannot occur also.

So thank you TarfHead for your post - I had totally fogotten the data protection act issue.


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## Padraigb (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

When our bank made a mistake in relation to an account that my wife had in her sole name, a mistake that created inconvenience and vexation for her but would not really have been actionable in a court, they compensated by giving her a voucher that covered the price of a good meal for two in a local establishment. 

Given that OP and her husband have both been upset to a significant extent, perhaps the bank should make a gesture to help them get over the problem they have contributed to. A weekend away might be worth a lot to a couple who are under financial pressure, and have a need to work on a bit of damage done to their relationship.


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## EBennet (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Jenroo I can tell you as someone with both a banking and legal background that the bank is completely and utterly in the wrong to have disclosed confidential information to your spouse relating to a loan taken in your own name and associated with your own current account. Marriage does not eliminate your right to privacy and the bank appear to have used bullying tactics to force you to repay your overdraft more quickly. As someone who works for a bank I am appalled that you are being treated in this manner over so small a debt in comparison to the the astronomical debt held by a customers in this country which is likely never to be repaid. I wonder is your bank AIB by any chance as I have heard many stories about them lately just revoking overdrafts with little or no notice, many from people with perfect credit and good current account behaviour. Don't be trod on bullied by them, contact a solicitor and have them send a letter to the bank complaining about their breach of confidentiality. You might find them a little more co-operative.


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## ney001 (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



TarfHead said:


> I can see how this could happen, though would not excuse it. The Bank are looking at the overall picture. The existence of the joint account blurs the lines between what is personal and what is joint, given that repayments are due on both.
> 
> I believe that, given all that you have disclosed, a _breach of confidentiality_ by the Bank should be low on your list of priorities.



Disagree with this, OP obviously has quite a few issues going on at the moment and a bank disclosing information has just given her another serious problem to deal with i.e marital.  I would follow up and contact the manager of the bank, just because you have money worries at the moment does not mean that you have lost all right to confidentiality even if you are married.  If they did not take into account your husband when you got loan then why would they do so now! Follow up ask to speak to manager and see what he has to say.  At the very least it may buy you some time to deal with your overdraft! - quite frankly it's the least they could do I would be highly upset if this had happened to me!. 

Hope it all works out for you


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## Lipstick69 (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

I would be disgusted at anyone handing out details of my personal financial arrangements. It is a complete breach of the Data Protection Regulations and should be reported to the Data Protection Commissioner. 

In the early 90s my mother applied for a loan and was asked for her husband's employment details which she refused to give as she was applying on her own income. It was illegal then to ask and is certainly now. 

Different relationships have different rules about finances. For me, I couldn't operate with a joint account. Even when living with a partner in the past we kept our finances separate. People get really weird about money when relationships sour!


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## dewdrop (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

As some posters have said the bank was completely wrong..full stop. However i feel OP main problem is how to restore trust with her husband. hopefully this has improved as to any reasonable person borrowing on your own is not such a "hanging offence". I suspect most spouses do not always give full and frank disclosure of their financial affairs to their other halves especially these in the older brigade. So OP if i were you i would try and get the husband understand what caused you the loan in the first place.


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## AgathaC (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

To the best of my knowledge, they were incorrect in disclosing this information if the account was separate from any joint accounts held and was in just your own name.


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## Rudolph (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

I think its more a breach of the Consumer Credit Act than Data Protection legislation. Under the CCA the bank cannot discuss any matter relating to the loan with a third party without your consent. On the basis that you did not give them that consent I think you are in a very strong position in dealing with them on this issue.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

So what is the bank supposed to do? 

Tell the husband that they are not renewing the overdraft but refuse to give the reason? 

if the husband asks for the joint file under the Data Protection Act, should the bank have removed any cross reference? 

Or should they have refused in the first place to lend to the wife without the husband also signing up to the loan? 

It seems to me to be perfectly reasonable of a bank to base a credit decision on the entire circumstances which includes the borrowings in their own names of both parties. 

The marital problems of the OP are caused by the excess borrowings and the failure to disclose them to her husband. Not by the banks's disclosure.

I think that the Ombudsman might award the OP some compensation. The Data Protection Commissioner might censure the bank. But this type of hounding of the banks makes it more difficult for ordinary customers to transact their business. If I ring the bank about my own account, it can take ages to answer a menu of questions so that they can properly identify me. In some cases, they refuse to give any information at all. 

Brendan


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## onq (25 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



Brendan said:


> So what is the bank supposed to do?
> 
> Tell the husband that they are not renewing the overdraft but refuse to give the reason?
> 
> ...



Brendan,

As far as I can see, there was no threat of non-renewal.
it is quite normal to agree a term of repayment of a lump sum.
A bank employee was reminding the husband of existing obligations.
No reason has been advanced as to why, in the current fraught economic climate, any bank official would take it upon themselves to waste their time pursuing an overdraft facility that was being properly managed.
A non-performing one, yes: this one, no.

Also from reading the posts, the OP had no marital or financial problems prior to the disclosure by the bank of her private financial arrangements to her husband.
Both the overdraft and the loan were being separately addressed by the couple and in three years would have been history.
The bank had no reason to raise either issue with either spouse.
More importantly, the bank had no right to raise the OP's loan with the husband, period.

In light of the above, the following comment by you appears not to be well supported:
_
"The marital problems of the OP are caused by the excess borrowings and the failure to disclose them to her husband. Not by the banks's disclosure."_

You should either show the factual basis for this comment or else consider withdrawing it.


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## aamstudent (26 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

If two individuals formed a partnership for a specific purpose and this partnership had difficulties repaying a loan to the bank, would the bank be entitled to inform one of the partners about the private financial situation of the other partner.  I don't think so and I don't see why this situation is any different.  I think the employee of the bank simply made a mistake.  As we know, this is possible.

There used be a rule where the husband was deemed responsible for any debts of the wife.  As far as I can make out, that no longer applies.
From the Married Women Status Act 1957.
Abolition of husband's liability for wife's torts, contracts, debts and obligations

11.—(1) The husband of a woman shall not, by reason only of his being her husband,—

 ( a ) be liable in respect of any tort committed by her, whether before or after the marriage, or

 ( b ) be sued, or made a party to any legal proceedings brought, in respect of any such tort, or

 ( c ) be liable in respect of any contract entered into, or debt or obligation incurred by her before the marriage, or

 ( d ) be liable in respect of any contract entered into, or debt or obligation incurred by her (otherwise than as agent) after the marriage, or

 ( e ) be sued, or made a party to any legal proceedings brought, in respect of any such contract, debt or obligation.

Now, I'm not a lawyer and the OP would do well to check with her lawyer.


 (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), where alimony has been ordered by a court to be paid and has not been duly paid by the husband, he shall be liable for necessaries supplied for the use of the wife.


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## demoivre (26 May 2009)

*Re: Breach of Confidentiality*



jenroo said:


> I have my own current account and applied for the loan based on my own income and assets, nothing was used as security for the loan



On this basis I can't see how the bank has any right to tell your husband about the term loan - the contract is between the signatories to the loan agreement ie you and them.


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## csirl (26 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



> if the husband asks for the joint file under the Data Protection Act, should the bank have removed any cross reference?


 
This is an important point. If the loan is referenced on the joint account file - as part of the general information given to the bank when opening the account or added since then or if the OPs loan application, overdraft etc. involved legitimately placing details on the joint account, then legally speaking, the husband knows (even if he doesnt actually know) and the bank is perfectly reasonable in raising it with him.

I would find it hard to believe that an application for an overdraft on a joint account would not be accompanied by information on loans taken out by either party, whether jointly or individually. I would also doubt that a bank would approve an overdraft without this information included in the application and they cant claim ignorance as the OPs loan is also theirs.


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## AlbacoreA (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Consider it from the point of view if they weren't married, were business partners etc.


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## MrMan (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



> Also from reading the posts, the OP had no marital or financial problems prior to the disclosure by the bank of her private financial arrangements to her husband.
> Both the overdraft and the loan were being separately addressed by the couple and in three years would have been history.


 
OT but to say there were no marital problems because she was hiding a 15k debt for 2 years doesn't make sense. Surely if all was well there would be no need to hise such a sum and the OP has said that she should not have hidden the debt. (+the reason for the debt could also be a real factor). Anyway back to the topic..


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## Bronco Lane (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Even if you have a deposit account in a bank and an overdraft and where there is no right of "set off" a bank cannot transfer funds from the deposit account to the overdraft without your permission.
The bank had no right to disclose your loan details to your husband. I would go for them two guns blazing.
I am a former banker.


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## babsie00 (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



jenroo said:


> I don't think it's right that a bank can disclose your personal financial details to anyone even if they are your spouse.




I totally agree here. If you took out the loan in your name using your personal account details then why are they disclosing details about it to him.(even if he should have known about it tbh). 
my bank will not let my husband or i do anything in relation to our joint account without the others say so. i just dont understand if all the details were in YOUR name why those details were given to your husband!even my phone company will not speak to my husband about our joint mobile phone bill without my consent first!!


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## tootsie (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Same here, i would get a solicitor. Issues in the marriage aside, it was a total breach or privacy.


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## ney001 (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



MrMan said:


> OT but to say there were no marital problems because she was hiding a 15k debt for 2 years doesn't make sense. Surely if all was well there would be no need to hise such a sum and the OP has said that she should not have hidden the debt. (+the reason for the debt could also be a real factor). Anyway back to the topic..



This is ridiculous, if she says there were no martial difficulties then that's good enough, the loan could have been for anything, it's not for us to judge martial issues.   Her personal business is her own, the only concern here is that the bank didn't take her husband into account when giving her money but now that they want money back they are lumping her and husband together and they have breached her right to confidentiality.  Brendan made a point earlier that hounding of the banks leads to increased security questions etc - well I think if it's a choice between confidentiality and having to go through a bit more to get access to your account information, people would be prepared to accept the latter, I certainly would! - they can ask me all the questions they like, once my information is kept private.


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## MrMan (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



ney001 said:


> This is ridiculous, if she says there were no martial difficulties then that's good enough, the loan could have been for anything, it's not for us to judge martial issues. Her personal business is her own, the only concern here is that the bank didn't take her husband into account when giving her money but now that they want money back they are lumping her and husband together and they have breached her right to confidentiality. Brendan made a point earlier that hounding of the banks leads to increased security questions etc - well I think if it's a choice between confidentiality and having to go through a bit more to get access to your account information, people would be prepared to accept the latter, I certainly would! - they can ask me all the questions they like, once my information is kept private.


She said there were no problems and she was also hiding a substantial debt. My opinion is that a marriage that doesn't allow some degree of transparency does have some difficulties.


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## Smashbox (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Have you asked the bank yet?


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## onq (28 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



MrMan said:


> OT but to say there were no marital problems because she was hiding a 15k debt for 2 years doesn't make sense. Surely if all was well there would be no need to hise such a sum and the OP has said that she should not have hidden the debt. (+the reason for the debt could also be a real factor). Anyway back to the topic..



You appear to have snipped the attribution to me when you edited the original post as quotation.

People keep secrets from other people all the time, often for good reason.
This thread is about a possible breach of confidentiality by a bank.
This thread isn't about whether the OP had/has marital problems.

onq


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## Bronte (29 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

Married people are delusional if they think they got loans in their own names and the earnings/assets/liabilities as a couple are not taken into account.  If you are going to hide a loan from your spouse the very least you should do is go to a different bank.  

It is downright dishonest not to tell a spouse about your loans and liabilities particularly where this can result in the other person also having the liabilities, but that is a very personal opinion and other people would believe that assets etc brought to the marriage are no business of the spouse.


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## Bronco Lane (29 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*

But my understanding was that the larger loan was being dealt with and paid off as per the schedule. So no problem there. So why did the bank even need to mention it.


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## ney001 (29 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



MrMan said:


> She said there were no problems and she was also hiding a substantial debt. My opinion is that a marriage that doesn't allow some degree of transparency does have some difficulties.



Different rules apply for different couples - honesty is not always the best policy so don't judge someones marriage based on what you would do!.  Point is this is about a breach of privacy not a moral judgment on why subject hid a debt!


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## MrMan (29 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



onq said:


> You appear to have snipped the attribution to me when you edited the original post as quotation.
> 
> People keep secrets from other people all the time, often for good reason.
> This thread is about a possible breach of confidentiality by a bank.
> ...


 
My post was directed at the line of thinking that there were no difficulties in the marriage until the banks disclosure, I simply feel that just because one party is being lied to and therefore in the dark does not mean there are no problems.


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## MrMan (29 May 2009)

*Re: Have loan in my own right, bank have informed my husband, Breach of Confidentiali*



ney001 said:


> Different rules apply for different couples - honesty is not always the best policy so don't judge someones marriage based on what you would do!. Point is this is about a breach of privacy not a moral judgment on why subject hid a debt!


 
I'm not judging a marriage but its a fine line to suggest that it should be accepted as normal or ok to indulge massive debt that could effect both people and not make the partner aware of it. If the Husband did like wise they would be servicing debt of 30k without both parties knowing it, anyway its the least of her problems now.


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