# Vartec and EurExcel - 'business opportunities'



## Lin03 (13 Nov 2003)

Hi,

Has anyone got any experience with either Vartec or EurExcel? I recently attended a meeting where a representative from Eurexcel was seeking business partners - all you had to do to sign up was pay €375 and get 2 customers. For each customer you recruit you get a percentage of the profits and for each business partner you recruit you get €75.
It sounded like pyramid selling but according to the rep. this is how they have expanded in the US.


----------



## Elcato (13 Nov 2003)

From what I gather Vartec took over Excel and its definitely a pyramid scheme. Barge pole, touch, ouch are words that come to mind.


----------



## jem (14 Nov 2003)

do the words, run, run faster, keep running meen anything to you?


----------



## rainyday (17 Nov 2003)

*Eurexcel Rep*

With ref  to Lin03...

Some of these facts are not actually correct.... registration is actually €325, refunded after you gather 10 customer points, i.e 5 customers transferring to Eurexcel and pay by direct debit....so minimal investment risk, in that you can get your money back and walk away
I can clarify the other details in person if neccessary. It's a bot complex to explain in detail here !!!

Excel have been operating in US for 15 years and fully comply with all regulations in place there. The system is not an illegal pyramid scheme. This is a very real business opportunity whereby you can build up a substantial income over a number of years. It is not get rich quick and it is not an illegal scam. Already over 500 reps are active in Ireland !!!

For anyone who is interesting in learning more about this business, I would be happy to join them at a business presentation or talk to them on the phone email _email address removed by RainyDay_

I hope the moderator can leave this message up as it is important to have both sides of the story, especially when the facts in the previous post are actually untrue. If they wish to remove my post, I hope they will consider removing the whole thread. 

Thanks.


----------



## rainyday (17 Nov 2003)

*Re: Eurexcel Rep*

Hi Rep - You are welcome to post more details about how this opportunity works, but you are not welcome to advertise your own email address - I've removed it from your post.


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (17 Nov 2003)

*Re: Eurexcel Rep*

Sorry about thst  RainyDay!!

I have now registered an account !! 

I will draft a proper reply later, as I explained it's quite difficult to explain with text only !!!

Am I allowed to reference a website or even attach a document to the post.

Thanks,

Rep


----------



## Ishmael Whale (17 Nov 2003)

*Questions that might be answered*

It would be useful if the reply addressed some of the usual concerns about multilevel marketing, as set out at the site below:

[broken link removed]


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (17 Nov 2003)

*Re: Questions that might be answered*

Thanks Ishmael,

I will use this as a framework for my response.

In this case, it is important to note that I'm not trying to sell anything to anybody here, I simply want to give people an opportunity to "Have a look" at an opportunity that might interest them. After they see the presentation or other information about the business, they are free to do whatever feels right for them. I don't mind if they walk away !!! They can further investigate etc, and come back to me if they are interested in joining the business. 

I don't try to sell the 2 Porches in the drive, 4 holidays a year, financial freedom forever...etc, I simply show people an opportunity to make a small change in their lives which might result in them earning a few extra euros per month, enough to cover the car loan every month, maybe the mortgage, all household bills, etc, It's really up to the individual to set their own targets.... I can show them the opportunity, and then should they decide to join, I can then show them the tools to help them reach their particular goals. 

Until later,

Rep


----------



## rainyday (17 Nov 2003)

*Re: Questions that might be answered*

Hi Rep - It would be helpful if you could also compare the costs (to the consumer) of the multi-level marketing approach of EurExcel/Vartec and the traditional sales model. I'm concerned that the MLM approach adds cost into the business model without adding value for the consumer.


----------



## heinbloed (18 Nov 2003)

*worthless traps*

Thanks rainyday.Unbelieveable how many " informers" still can feed themself in the big pond.


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (18 Nov 2003)

*Re: Questions that might be answered*

With reference to the document above, please see below in reference to Eurexcel.

THE OPPORTUNITY TEST
Of course the opportunity is attractive, however, the product offering is very real, and is a very competitive alternative to Eircom. In fact from 1st of December, Eurexcel customers through UK and Ireland will be able to talk to one another for unlimited time 24/7 for a small monthly charge. In relation to selling the opportunity, in the case of Eurexcel, you only really earn if you do the work, you can’t just sit back and earn off the coat tails of someone in your down-line. So it is very possible, and in fact happens regularly that reps can actually surpass the earnings of people in their up-line. This is based on the fact that they have worked harder to build their business. The No 1 money earner in the company started 8 years ago, the company was already in business for 7 years before he joined, yet he is the all time no.1 money earner…… why? because he worked harder then anyone else and built up a bigger, better business than people above him. 

THE MARKET REALITY TEST
With Eurexcel, we are currently active in UK, Germany, Austria, Ireland, Netherlands, US and Canada.  We are free to sign up customer and reps in any of these currently active countries. Eurexcel plan to roll out a new European country every 3-6 months until all of Europe is covered, providing an excellent opportunity for all of us, the deregulation of telecoms markets will continue over the next few years as any new members of EU must have started a deregulation process before joining. In terms of market penetration in Ireland, Eircom still provide telephone services to over 90% of residential homes (according to ESAT BT report last week)

THE PRODUCT TEST
It is without question that the Eurexcel product range can be sold on their own merits without using a Network Marketing distribution system. Network Marketing is a phenomenal distribution system, why not use the power of referral and word of mouth marketing. This company has massive success with system n the US, infact an independent book was written about the company. Check out “The Excel Phenomenom” by James W Robinson on Amazon. Eircom, BT, KPN, etc spend millions of pound each year marketing their products and service, without really understanding the pro-rata benefit…in terms of amount spent versus customers attracted. With Eurexcel, the company only pays us when people gather customers. I earn nothing by signing 50 reps into my downline…… its only when they start signing customer that I can earn.

THE COMPENSATION TEST
With Eurexcel, it is possible to earn a substantial income by singing customers only. You are free to sign residential or business customers and your personal commission ranges from 2-10% in scale associated with your total customer spend. People can make money without actually signing reps. Your upline earn ¼% (quarter of one per for five levels above, with 1% at level 6 and 5% at level 7. It is a fact that you are also paid team building bonuses, but bonus payments are only made when your rep gathers customers, but this is where the power of Network marketing is exploited, the company pays you for helping others find customers and thus increasing customer base and market penetration.. 
In terms of losing money and actual investment risk, €325 is your investment, this is actually refunded once you collect 10 customer points (1 point for customer sign up, plus 1 point for Direct Debit or continuous Credit Card payment) 

THE INCOME DISCLOSURE TEST
It is company policy for reps not to disclose income or promise specific income levels for new reps. I will admit that I don’t have the average payout percentiles, but I will try to get them. It is actually a legal obligation to have this information available in Canada, so the information is available in the public domain. I simply don’t have at the moment. 
On a personal note, I understand how incomes are generated and I am happy that I can achieve my personal income goals within this system. The framework report which I use as a term of reference for this response, states that “some researchers estimate that less than 1% of Network Marketing distributors ever turn a profit” With Eurexcel your breakeven can be as low as 5 customers (paying by direct debit) so your first commission cheque will actually be profit, admittedly very small, but profit nonetheless !!!!

THE PRICE TEST
Pricing for the Eurexcel products are highly competitive with all other players in the market, obviously with particular focus on eircom as the incumbent. It is a fact that these services are highly marketable and saleable, with service enhancements being regularly being introduced into the market. Eg “Unlimited” as mentioned previously. It’s important to remember that there is no requirement to carry any inventories.

THE GOLDEN RULE TEST
This Golden Rule concept is an interesting criteria for evaluation of this business, as its really a matter of personal opinion. I feel very comfortable offering my family and friends the Eurexcel products and service. After all they are not exposed to any risk, it costs them nothing extra over eircom, they save some money, there is no minimum contract so if they want they can change back at any time, and finally they are happy to be helping me to build my business. 
Regarding other reps, I simply show my warm market (i.e family, friends etc) the business and explain how it works for me…. If they like it and want to learn more, then we take it to the next level. If they’re not interested, no problem….  

THE TIME FREEDOM TEST
Personally, I’m not selling a time freedom opportunity, although arguably it’s achievable, as defined in the framework document. It is possible to build a business to a level whereby you simply don’t work it any more !!! You can stop, and one of two things will happen a) your income with remain the same (unlikely as others in your downline will not stop at the same time !!) or b) your income will continue to grow because others will continue. 
The extent of your time freedom, and when you might decide to walk away is dependent on the size of your business. For example, if you have 5 or 10 people recently joined your business and you walk away, its unlikely that this business will grow into a substantial income, however, if you have a few hundred reps in your business then chances are that things can continue without you. Really depends on how strong the leaders may be beneath you !!!

THE HONESTY TEST
From a personal point of view, this business doesn’t have to be cloak and dagger. I want to up front and honest. I want to show you this like it is. If you like it..  great, we can work together. If not, so be it, I’ll keep looking for others. People are wise enough in this day and age to do their own research and not be duped into joining a business like this. With regard to information, specifically disclosure of information, my approach is to be up front from the very first contact. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to “trick” anybody to join my company. Firstly I gain nothing, because this person will leave, and secondly, when they do leave they will be a massive “negative” representative for my company in the future. The business is challenging enough without building a team of negative reps, always remember referrals work both ways !!! 
I don’t try the hard sell, simply show the business, answer any questions and queries and then leave it to the individual to make a decision. I only want to focus my attention on working with people who are already comfortable with this business, time is too valuable to have to spend time “convincing” people that this business is for them. If they make the decision themselves then we can hit the ground running and I can focus on helping them build their business. 

THE SUPPORT TEST
In my experience, support in this business is superb, and I don’t use that word lightly. My upline recently spent time in Netherlands during our pre-launch phase there. I had a few contacts there and he was able to meet them and help them get started in the business when it launched there at the end of October. As a result I am now building a team there without actually travelling there myself !! He also supports me with UK contacts (he’s based there) and makes regular visits to Ireland to support our growth.
At some training events a small nominal cover charge is payable to cover room hire. In terms of other support material…. The internet and websites…. Almost everything else you need is here !!! Conference calls, on-line training presentation, prospecting software etc. With 15 year history in the US, there is an unbelievable amount of support information available on the net.   

So there we have it, didn’t expect an essay, but I hope I’ve gone some way to trying to outline some facts behind Eurexcel. For any further info. I think you’ll have to come along to a business presentation…….to contact me check my profile !!!

Enjoy...

Rep


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (20 Nov 2003)

*Cost to Consumer*

Rainyday,

Thanks for replacing the post.

In relation to your concern Re: cost to the consumer. I didn't actually see that before my rather long post above! The fact remains that eircom pump millions of euros every year into their corporate marketing and advertising. eg sponsorship of Irish soccer team a good example. Who pays ? Easy, we do, the consumer, how do we know ? simple, look at the line rental we all pay, look at the rates..... If we were to devide the cost of the adverts against the number of new customers they attract, the aquistion cost of each customer is massive, as a result existing customers have to contribute to the continuous marketing campaigns.

With Eurexcel, the company pay people like me and you to 1) find some customers, and 2) find other people who will find customers. If we find none they pay us nothing. If we are successful, they a small commission on revenue.

Hope this goes some way to answering your question.

Regards,

Rep


----------



## Ishmael Whale (21 Nov 2003)

I've been away from the site for a few days, or I might have contributed earlier.

In one sense this does not feel to me like a topic worth pursuing. But I've started so I'll finish. While it is stated that it is possible to earn an income from just signing up customers, signing up other sales reps still seems to be at least a significant part of the process. As there seems to be no limit as to the number of sales reps that can be signed up in a district this seems to be the standard attempt to defy the law of gravity. Saturation inevitably must happen quickly.

I'm still not clear on where the 325 euro fits into the picture, but assuming this is some fee that persons are obliged to pay to become sales reps, the essential question is how many actually get the amount refunded. This is not a question about willingness to engage in 'hard work'. It is simply making the point that if 1000 people put 325 into a post office savings cert we know that in five years time they will all get that nominal amount back, plus interest, for no effort at all. If 1000 people put 325 into this scheme, how many will make a return that beats the post office?

We are all wonderful people in our own way, and undoubtably some find MLM schemes suit their skills. But if only a few are successful then most of us should have no interest.


----------



## daltonr (1 Dec 2003)

> People are wise enough in this day and age to do their own research and not be duped into joining a business like this.



Ahem.   

I hope you can back up wild unsubstantiated claims like this.       I have nothing against People,  some of my best friends are People.  But people, by and large, it must be said.... ARE IDIOTS.

-Rd


----------



## Licker (2 Dec 2003)

*Pyramid*

A bit like that Euphony lot: if it looks like a pyramid, and smells like a pyramid, then it probably is a pyramid.

What does the DOCA have to say about this lot ?


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (3 Dec 2003)

*Re: Pyramid*

Licker,

What is your understanding of an illegal pyramid scheme ? Why do you suggest that Eurexcel is one ?

How much do you know about this opportunity ? Have you seen the presentation. I can arrange for you to view one on-line.

Look forward to your thoughts..

Rep


----------



## Elcato (3 Dec 2003)

*Re: Pyramid*



> What is your understanding of an illegal pyramid scheme ?


Is there such thing as a legal pyramid scheme ? Oh of course there is ! Nod nod wink wink wink Eurexel Rep ....


----------



## Skinflint (3 Dec 2003)

*.*



> Is there such thing as a legal pyramid scheme ?



Pyramid selling schemes are illegal - pyramid gifting schemes (such as the infamous Women Empowering Women) are not. Both are dodgy and usually good ways to lose money and friends.


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (3 Dec 2003)

Guys,

I'd be interested to hear how you would define a pyramid and more importantly why you classify Eurexcel in this catagory. 

If you are prepared to brand this business a pyramid, please justify it. In an earlier mail, I described how Eurexcel can be evaluated as a very viable business model. For those that have read the Rich Dad series, Kiyosaki suggests Network Marketing as one of three business systems people use.

You just have to learn not to generalise. Many people are put off my opportunity because it really does sound too good to be true, which of course everyone knows means it can't be true. Rubbish!! Don't generalise, do your own research, find out for yourself, be an individual, make an informed decision, don't just discard things out of hand. These pieces of advice all apply to any business decision you might make, not just our niche.

Be enlightened....

Regards

Rep


----------



## Skinflint (3 Dec 2003)

*.*

I think you were doing OK with your rebuttals until you mentioned Kiyosaki. That's really set the alarm bells ringing with me....!


----------



## EurExcel Senior Representative (16 Jan 2004)

*"Pyramid Scheme"*

Is this a "Pyramid Scheme" ? 

No, most definitely not. The company uses a Multi-Level or Network Marketing business model. Our approach to the business, however, is quite different than what most people think of when they think about traditional "MLM" –
Multi-Level Marketing. Our professional, system driven 
approach is a perfect example of how business should be 
conducted within an industry that at times has received bad press because of disreputable individuals or organizations. 

Evidence of this fact is Excel's presence on the Board of 
Directors for the Direct Sales Association (www.dsa.org),
which serves as a self-governing body within the industry to separate legitimate opportunities from illegal
"pyramid schemes".


----------



## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (16 Jan 2004)

*Re: "Pyramid Scheme"*

Yawn - this one seems to get bumped to the top of the list ever couple of months by somebody with a vested interest...


----------



## rainyday (16 Jan 2004)

*Re: "Pyramid Scheme"*

Oooooh - a _*senior*_ representative - well that makes it so much more credible, doesn't it?


----------



## netsalez (17 Jan 2004)

*The EurExcel Opportunity*

Seems to me that this Opportunity is either for you or not, whether you have enough get-up-and-go, whether you have dreams & goals in your life .........

But I guess there are some who are content with their own lives as they are !!


----------



## ninsaga (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: The EurExcel Opportunity*

Just a query - are netsalez, Eurexcelrep & Eurexcel Senior Report all one and the same person?

BTW in large some MLM products are great but their process of selling are generally This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language


----------



## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: The EurExcel Opportunity*



> Seems to me that this Opportunity is either for you or not, whether you have enough get-up-and-go, whether you have dreams & goals in your life .........



I always love these sort of comments in relation to schemes like this - if you question the validity or viability of the scheme or cast any doubt on the great claims made then you're obviously some sort of lazy begrudger with no dreams or goals who sits on his This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language (well it's hard to sit on somebody else's I suppose) all day rather than knuckling down to some MLMing with your uplines and downlines in order to make the fortune that awaits those highly motivated like minded individualistic self starters who get on their bikes and go for it.... :lol    



> But I guess there are some who are content with their own lives as they are !!



Smug as it may sound - yes. And as I posted earlier today:

"If one only wished to be happy, this could be easily accomplished; but we wish to be happier than other people, and this is always difficult, for we believe others to be happier than they are." -- Montesquieu ( [broken link removed] )

By the way - not all dreams/goals cost money...


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: The EurExcel Opportunity*

Hi all,

If you check the profiles I think you will see that we are different.... not sure who senior rep is ?

Only like minded individuals....

By the way, you refer to the method of selling being This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language..... how do you mean ? For example with EurExcel, I sell our service to a small number of people who want to save some money on their phone bills. I don't force anyone into anything. At the end of the day, I can save them some money, it costs them nothing and they get an equivalent service...... what's wrong with that ?

Have a great day !!!

Rep


----------



## ikindoffwonder (17 Jan 2004)

*opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

I guess what I mostly wonder about is the fact that the business presentation does not really say much about the company .

Too many things remain unanswered.
What happens if the rep above you does not function well? Who will "dismiss" him from his "own" company?
How is the information communicated with respect to not bothering the same people? For example, i would get really angry with different reps calling me about the same product.
How long do my customers remain my customers with respect to the commission offered?
Who do customers contract with? Rep.?
By the way that fancy story from 100 000 to a 
1000 000 000..... can we see some internal journal or some sort of a financial journal of this company?

so my advice is, if you were to search for serious representatives , you might as well provide some technical information .

good luck


----------



## rainyday (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*



> But I guess there are some who are content with their own lives as they are !!



It always raises a red flag for me when a salesman has to resort to slagging off the competition to close the gig. But this is exactly what these kind of schemes depend on - playing on fears & disgruntlements of ordinary workers to paint the 'faraway hills are greener' picture of the utopian world where you work for yourself.

I might actually start to take these schemes seriously if they were a bit more honest.


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

Hi again,

I sure enjoy a good debate !!

For me timing was everything, I'm not gullible enough to be sold on every aspect of this business, and I don't expect to become a millionaire out of it. However, fact remains that I earn respectable additional income, in proportion to the amount of time I spend doing it.

I was exposed to this opportunity at the right time in my life to decide to try it out.

To answer "Ikingofwonder".... i'm not sure if you have actually attended a business presentation, but If I could assure you of one thing....that is that I'll be honest. Send me an email ref my profile, or ask the questions here if you wish. As I said before.... there is no benefit in me signing up a unmotivated partner..!

If a rep does not function well, he will simply drop out !!! Anyone under him has visability and access to all people above, so they can simply team with someone else above them !!! There are also many no-affiliated support groups where support is available....mostly internet based.

With regard to not bothering the same people, this is tricky....not sure how Eircom or any other direct sales companies do as I regularily have the same companies coming to my door !! So to be honest, there is not real system.

With regard to customers and commission, they will remain your customers, paying you commission for as loing as you stay in the business, and they stay a customer.....no limit

Contract is with Eurexcel, collections by EurExcel, customer care by Eurexcel...etc

100 000 to 1000 000 000 - I'm not sure whatyou are referrign to here...please advise...

Hope this helps.... you may ask more questoins here or contact by email and I can send a CD presentation or arrange to attend a meeting or even a LIVE online presentation.

Regards,

Rep...


----------



## ecb4ng (17 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

what I mean with 100 000 to 1000 000 000 is something that is presented on that cd presentation ( at least the one we get in the Netherlands)
I could remind you : 
you start the presentation with the motivation from one of the CEO's stating the company started from $ 100 000 or something.
later on , you clearly state that the revenues of 
Vartec telecom rose to 1 billion in its 10th year,
while Excel's rose to 1 billion in its 8th year.

 perhaps there can be some proof on these data?

 if that is not possible i wonder why these numbers are at all communicated to potential members or customers.

best regards,

 ikindoffwonder/ ecb4ng


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (18 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

ecb4ng,

I understand the point now..... 

I've never actually seen "proof" myself, however, I know that EXCEL were a public company at the time that they broke the 1 billion revenue point, so the information is in the public domain. I will try to get it !!!!

In terms of credibility, there is an excellent book available on Amazon called "THE EXCEL PHENOMENON" by James W. Robinson. Robinson was independently comissioned to write the book.

This is well worth a read for anyone interested in taking the opportunity further.

Cheers for now !!

Rep..


----------



## rainyday (18 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

Hi Eurexcep fans - Can you confirm the tax implications in relation to income from these schemes?


----------



## netsalez (18 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

The Tax Implications are exactly the same as you would have for any other Business. As an Independent Representative you are running your own business, working for yourself.

Income Tax would be calculated the same way it would be as if you are a Plumber, Electrician or whoever ....

Your Income is based upon your profits derived from various Leadership Bonuses & of course, the Residual Income you receive from your Customers' Usage every month.


----------



## ninsaga (19 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

... does the fact that EXcel Rep, snr EXCL rep & netsalez (who are bombarding this thread with salesy stuff) constitute as an elaborate form of spamming...


----------



## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (19 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

To be fair the last few posts have dealt clearly with facts rather than being a spiel about how great the scheme is.


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (19 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

Hi,

Thanks 0..... I'm just responding to direct questions.....

Ninsinga can choose not to read the posts !!!!

Rep


----------



## netsalez (19 Jan 2004)

*Re: opportunity...great system...your own boss?*

ninsaga,

This is simply a form of discussion, the Topic is "Vartec & EurExcel" - all we are simply doing is answering questions that have been asked ..............


----------



## John Ling (23 Jan 2004)

*http://www.alienjesus.com/war/archives/000346.html*

www.alienjesus.com/war/ar...00346.html

OR

[broken link removed]


----------



## Greg (26 Jan 2004)

*Competition*

I've just come across this interesting thread.

Personally I think EurExcel Rep has answered all your questions and concerns.  Give the guy/girl a break.

As for you ninsaga, your only jealous!! - If I remeber correctly your a Rep with Cinergi or Euphony.  So your an MLMer yourself !!!


----------



## Savy1 (30 Jan 2004)

*Vartec!*

IMHO I think vartec are a complete rip-off.
If you look at their web page(www.vartec.ie) you will see that they charge only 3c/minute for local/national calls, but their is a minimum charge of 15c.
I think most people would have a large amount of calls less than 2-3 mins.
Also to ring a mobile costs between 12 -22 c/minute and again there is a minimum cost of 3 mins, it if you ring a mobile during the day and leave a message it will cost you 66c!
I have seen their leaflets with my Eircom bill. I was shocked at the costs.
If vartec and the EurExcel are so great why do they need to use MLM to convince people. If you show people that you have great rates, they will be quick to tell their family and friends and no commission needs to be paid for them to do this
S


----------



## Eurcall (1 Feb 2004)

*EurExcel*

Hi Savy1!

I'm a EurExcel Rep.  Just wan't to claify your posting above.

You are correct wrt Vartec's rates, etc.  However, Vartec don't use MLM to sell their services, instead they use direct mailshots.  Their primary product offering is a prefix dialing service.  Most customers would only use their network for selective calls.  Their international rates are very competitve - UK 6c, USA 6c, Europe 8c, Aust 8c.  Also these rates are 24/7, so there is no peak, off-peak  or weekend complexities.  Their peak national & local rates are only 3c.

It is their sister company "EurExcel" that use MLM to market their CPS product.  EurExcel don't have any minimum call charge, nor do they  have a minimum cost of 3 mins for mobile calls.  You have the option of selecting what calls they carry for you (all calls, local, national or international).  They also now have a service "unlimited" where you can call other EurExcel customers free in the UK or Ireland for a small monthly fee.  Their product offering won't suit everybody, but for those it does, serious savings can be made on their phone bill.   [broken link removed]

The reason they use MLM to market their product is because it's the most cost efficient way to gather a loyal customer base.  They don't waste millions of Euros on costly advertising, sponsorship or direct sales people.  Reps are their adverts, and they only get paid when they introduce new business.  Thats why they can offer such a lucrative compensation plan.  Their customer acquisition cost is much lower than any normal telco and their customer retention is the best in the industry.

MLM is not about convincing people, it's about recommendation without disadvantage.  I regularly recommend good deals, offers, films, restaurants, etc to my freinds and family.  With EurExcel it's the exact same, only I get paid for doing it. 

MLM has got a lot of bad press.  I was no different to most of the skeptics out there, until I came across this opportunity.  I see it as a real win:win.  The customer saves on their calls, the reps earns a commission and the company makes a profit.  The only looser is Eircom.


----------



## madhead (2 Feb 2004)

*My friends are reps*

My mates (married couple) are reps for eurexcel and signed most of my other mates up.  Some even paying the 350 to become 'agents'.
Now nobody is talking to them.  They lied to them about a minimum charge.  They also lied about the €5 a month stantard charge.
Nobody is saving money.  In fact all their bills are almost double since switching.
They have effectively conned their mates and this leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.

One more thing.  The agent that signed my friends up originally told them not to say anything about these charges so that they could look more like a bargain.
Now they are deeply distressed and have told me that now they realize that they have effectivley conned their friends even though they thought they were doing the right thing at the time.
Sad really


----------



## Eurcall (3 Feb 2004)

*EurExcel*

Hi Madhead,

If your friends lied about the products they were recommending then I agree - It's sad.  Anybody recommending a product should know exactly what their selling.  I would only recommend our products when I know somebody's call traffic patterns, and am sure they can save on their bill.  There is no such thing as the cheapest provider as all licenced operators have their strengths and weaknesses.

Just to clarify, EurExcel doesn't have a minimum call charge and the €5 service charge only applies to the basic Eurplan product.  Our other products don't have a monthly service charge.  They do however require a minimum monthly call spend.  

I admit we have our weak points, but we also have our strong points.  It's the Reps job to ensure they don't make false promises to customers.  There are some ethical reps out there, so don't paint us all with the same brush. - Thanks!!

Great article in The Sunday Business Post about Eircom's win back tactics.  Worth a read to see the dirty tricks our incumbent gets up to.

[broken link removed]


----------



## jedilawstudent (28 Feb 2004)

*Re: EurExcel*

greetings, sorry if I have not registered yet but I wanted to comment on Excel Corporation (as they are referred to in the United States). I am a second year law student who works for a federal judge in the San Francisco Bay Area. I can tell you that Multi Level Marketing is a very legitimate corporation. However I have looked over an Excel job application contract and after discussing it with a federal judge, a corporate attorney and both my contracts professor and a friend in the attorney general's office (all of them have come to the conclusion that this is in fact a pyramid scheme!) No matter what the excel rep will say above LOL Excel really doesn't make a product. They make their money solely on recruiting other people to pay an exorbitant fee to join up. MLM would be legitimate if there was no "application fee, i.e. franchise fee" those terms are laughable. 

I notice that these scam artist Excel reps recruit 18-20 year old kids. I have never seen anyone older than 21 or maybe 22 who are working to scam people.


----------



## ninsaga (28 Feb 2004)

*Re: EurExcel*

Jdilawstudent - I find this unusual. If a federal judge finds this illegal then why are the various MLM companies allowed to operate in the US. MLM.com churns out that there are hundreds of these companies in operation in the US.

As I understand it - there was a case in the US ( & you are probably in a better position to research this given Your background) which claimed that MLM was in fact a Pyramid operation. The claiments lost - the judgement was in favour of teh MLM company('s).

Looking forward to Your comments....

ninsaga
(Note: I tried MLM in the past & was not very good at it.)

PS: I also find it interesting that more people try to find what wrong with something rather than what is right.


----------



## jedilawstudent (29 Feb 2004)

*Re: EurExcel*

MLM is a pyramid operation which can be legal. However there are 2 main factors that go into an MLM operation that can declare it illegal.1. Recruitment fee's and 2. Is the MLM operation actually selling something? One very simple thing to ask an MLM operation is whether you have to pay a certain fee to get hired into a company. If you do it is most likely a pyramid scheme. 

The next thing you ask is what exactly is this MLM company selling. In Excel's sake they are allegedly selling a phone service but when an Excel rep was attempting to recruit me, he told me that the way it works is that I won't do any work and the people I hire to work for me will be doing all the work, and at most just have your family sign up for it. Now if I was stupid enough to pay into Excel's 400 dollar fee than I would most likely be trying to recruit people by telling them that the people below them will be doing all the work. The emphasis in the interview was not in selling the cellular phone plan, itwas in recruiting other people. And if you recruit so many people and obtain so many points then only then will you be getting paid. So there really is no product being sold, unless you count the people you are scamming. 

Like I said MLM's can be legal but in an industrial society they very rarely succeed because you have to mark up your product so much that when you actually sell a product (and the selling of the product is the only way you can make money) everyone above you can get a small commission. This is legal because there are no enrolement fees to enter this kind of legitimate MLM and because you actually are making a product. But with big business usually it is unequitable for MLM's to survive because big business can swoop right in and undercut the price leaving no comparison in price between an MLM operation and another similar product for less money. 

To answer your other question, I work with academics and a judge, and I know a very prominent lawyer in the California Attorney General's office. The academics know it's illegal but aren't gonna file a lawsuit because one of their bright students/employees uncovered it. My friend in the attorney general's office is interested and has passed the contractual application on to the public rights division (who actually handle pyramid schemes). Sadly for Excel or Vartec whatever they want to call it, they can be legitimate if they only concentrated on not charging new hires $400 and if they actually sold a product instead of a scam.


----------



## ninsaga (29 Feb 2004)

*Re: EurExcel*

OK...

Quote
-------
MLM is a pyramid operation which can be legal.
-------

Pyramid operations by their very definition are illegal so I fail to so hoow You can dram parallels here whne You are saying it can be legal.

There are many reputable companies out there selling reputable products or services. Some of these happen to to MLM companies.

Then again there are compaines out there whose objective is to scam people - again some pf these are prospecting their Customers/distributors by using MLM techniques - Women empowering Women & GMT come to mind.

Of the former the likes of Herbalife, Kleeneze, FLP, Nutrimetics, Cynergie & Excel - again ones that come mind do provide good products & services. The 'end' Customers benefit from their purchases & can save money versus mainstream suppliers & service providers. So if the Customer benefits & the Agent/Distributor (or whatever they are called), makes soem money alon the way, then what's wrong with that.

ninsaga


----------



## <A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s (29 Feb 2004)

*Re: EurExcel*



> Pyramid operations by their very definition are illegal



This is not completely accurate - pyramid SELLING schemes are illegal in Ireland but pyramid GIFTING schemes (which involve the gifting of money between participants but not the selling of any product or service - e.g. Women Empowering Women etc.) are not.


----------



## stanley (2 Mar 2004)

*question for Eurexel rep*

Can you explain the purpose of the €350 charge ?. If I was a new agent every customer I bring is good news for the company. What do I have to get 10 points. If I only get eight the company gains and I get nothing!,


----------



## Eurexcel Rep (3 Mar 2004)

*Re: question for Eurexel rep*

Hi Stanley,

It is not uncommon for Network Marketing companies to charge an initial start up fee. (it is not very common for you to get the opportunity to earn that start-up fee back within your first few days in the business !!!!)

Our application fee, actually €325, covers many things including your license to trade as a EurExcel Independent Rep, 
Independent Representative kit, Support and Business Building material, Product and Service Information, Product and service training by certified trainer, EurExcel for Representatives on-line information support, Personalised on-line business support, Weekly reports - showing payments, downline activity etc.

Imagine if sign up was free..... then I could easily fill my downline with names and earn my promotions !!! Also, how many McDonalds franchises open with zero investment, do you of many other businesses that you can start for free ?

The initial investment also serves are a measure of commitment to the business. Like I said, if it was free lots of people whould sign up and do absolutely nothing !!!

The company doesn't want your €325, so if you're not going to get 10 points (5 customers on Direct Debit) then don't join !!!

Regards,

Rep


----------



## jedilawstudent (5 Mar 2004)

*Re: question for Eurexel rep*

so what is the harm in hiring people to sell the excel plan without the "franchise fee" and just pay them on the commission they bring in in sales rather than new recruits? 

And why don't you spell out exactly what the franchise fee covers? You are being way too broad in your definition of why this billion dollar company needs such a huge fee up front from someone who wants to sell your "phone plan" to other people.


----------



## ecb4ng (8 Mar 2004)

*Re: question for Eurexel rep*

good question!


----------

