# Is it just me or are Bank of Ireland ignoring all potential tracker redress customers?



## Tillymam (8 Dec 2016)

Hi all, just wondering if anybody out there has had any success in getting even the slightest modicum of information out of BOI on how their tracker review is progressing?
I'm sick and tired of contacting their information line and getting the same old "we're conducting our review" jargon!
The only communication I have received to date is their standard letter stating they are conducting a review and affected costomers will be contacted on completion of the review.
When last I contacted them (Tuesday!) I lodged a formal complaint about the level of total disregard they have for their customers plus the lack of communication /information on the review. Hopefully this will push communications somewhat, I won't hold my breath mind!
I suppose I'm wondering is my frustration common among BOI tracker redress customers Or have they been in touch with any/some/many of you at this stage?
One last Q, do any of you know if there is a deadline the banks must meet for their reviews to be complete, apparently BOI didn't have the information at hand to answer when I asked


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## mister32 (9 Dec 2016)

Central bank has said it will conclude in 2017


https://www.centralbank.ie/press-ar...dateonExaminationofTrackerMortgageissues.aspx


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## SaySomething (9 Dec 2016)

Tillymam I highly recommend contacting them in writing as opposed to phone contact. You may have a better result.


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## Onceagain (9 Dec 2016)

N


Tillymam said:


> Hi all, just wondering if anybody out there has had any success in getting even the slightest modicum of information out of BOI on how their tracker review is progressing?
> I'm sick and tired of contacting their information line and getting the same old "we're conducting our review" jargon!
> The only communication I have received to date is their standard letter stating they are conducting a review and affected costomers will be contacted on completion of the review.
> When last I contacted them (Tuesday!) I lodged a formal complaint about the level of total disregard they have for their customers plus the lack of communication /information on the review. Hopefully this will push communications somewhat, I won't hold my breath mind!
> ...


Hi, no you are not alone, BOI are a law onto themselves, I have been around the house's and just get the same response. It's so frustrating, I have contacted the central bank, TD'S, the papers, but it's a waiting game now and so very exhausting.


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## todo (10 Dec 2016)

Tillymam said:


> Hi all, just wondering if anybody out there has had any success in getting even the slightest modicum of information out of BOI on how their tracker review is progressing?
> I'm sick and tired of contacting their information line and getting the same old "we're conducting our review" jargon!
> The only communication I have received to date is their standard letter stating they are conducting a review and affected costomers will be contacted on completion of the review.
> When last I contacted them (Tuesday!) I lodged a formal complaint about the level of total disregard they have for their customers plus the lack of communication /information on the review. Hopefully this will push communications somewhat, I won't hold my breath mind!
> ...



Hi Tillymam,
          Would you mind giving a outline of what happened with your mortgage? I'm one of BOI's frustrated customers, they have told me over the phone that my mortgage is included in the review, but I have not received any letter yet.


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## Tillymam (10 Dec 2016)

Hi guys, thanks for your comments, if nothing else it's good to know I'm not the only person out there disgusted by how BOI are treating their customers!

Hi Todo, we took out our mortgage in 2004 and the first year we were on the introductory variable rate. At end of yr 1 I foolishly fixed my mortgage! For 3 years and our decision was solely based on lack of education! And the fact that the fixed rate they offered was the lowest option, even lower than the tracker which we were offered!
At the end of the 3 years we fixed again for 1 yr at an equally enticing rate....that was the last year of favourable rates tho!
When the 1yr was done I rang and requested I be put back on my tracker which they flat out refused, I had given up my entitlement to it by fixing my rate was their statement.
I did ask for this in writing at the time, and they sent me a letter stating same.

Fast forward to August this year when I heard of the whole redress scheme I started contacting them frequently for details/updates on the review, as you can imagine this was a pointless exercise because as far as I'm concerned they have the same poor lady answering every call reading out their scripted response.
I haven't received a difinitive response that my mortgage is even included in the review, that's how vague their reply was!
To get my ducks in row I  contacted their mortgage centre directly, it was at this point they confirmed I drew down on a tracker mortgage and my argument was if that was the case surely it identifies my entitlement to be put back on my tracker, any redress/compensation could happen down the line when their review was complete.
Again this was like hitting a brick wall. Only their tracker review team can do this so it's an endless cycle of being pushed from pillar to post.
I did vent that day when I spoke to their mortgage team and I did get a lower SVR, pittance though in comparison to what I feel I'm entitle to.
Last week I rang again, knowing I'd most likely get nowhere but this time I lodged a formal complaint which means now they have to proactively reply to my complaint within a predefined timeline. Again I don't suspect this will improve my efforts to have my tracker reinstated before the review is complete but I'm sure as hell going to do my best to frustrate them as much as they have me To date!
Apologies if rambling but this has turned into such a saga with BOI, I honestly cannot understand how they are so unanswerable in comparison to other banks!


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## mister32 (10 Dec 2016)

I'm in a similar boat to you

They restructured my loans all the while ignoring my claims to return to tracker.

I am on an exorbitant rate with half the loan parked but accumulating interest at the same again huge rate.

Meanwhile they have only once written to say I'm included in the tracker review.

If I miss a payment my wife and I can receive 6 phone calls each per week.

These Boi people are something else. Their behaviour has been appalling.


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## mister32 (10 Dec 2016)

I'm an example of person who can't switch and am reluctant to fix because why should I when I should be on a tracker?

I'm looking to Michael Mc Grath to fix the high variable rates.
And the central bank to get my tracker back.


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## todo (12 Dec 2016)

Tillymam said:


> Hi guys, thanks for your comments, if nothing else it's good to know I'm not the only person out there disgusted by how BOI are treating their customers!
> 
> Hi Todo, we took out our mortgage in 2004 and the first year we were on the introductory variable rate. At end of yr 1 I foolishly fixed my mortgage! For 3 years and our decision was solely based on lack of education! And the fact that the fixed rate they offered was the lowest option, even lower than the tracker which we were offered!
> At the end of the 3 years we fixed again for 1 yr at an equally enticing rate....that was the last year of favourable rates tho!
> ...



Hi Tillymam, Its different scenario to mine, keep us informed of any progress, I think your approach is good.


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## Tillymam (21 Dec 2016)

Hi All, just posting an update on the shambles that is the BOI tracker review!
I've just got off the phone from them again, actually I had not intending on contact them today, however during a call with BOI mortgages on a different issue they advised me that the review team would be able to give me a definitive answer on whether or not my account was eligible to revert to the tracker rate so I figured it was worth making the call.

How wrong was I! It was even more of a waste of time than usual, once again got the whole "review in ongoing spiel" and still could not get them to confirm or deny if my mortgage was even included in the review process, not to mention if entitlement to tracker was established.
These guys genuinely are the pits to deal with, it is beyond me how can one institution be allowed to treat their customers in such an appalling manner, are there any rules out there that bind the bank to provide customers with this type of information, surely we as customers are entitled to all information, activities surrounding our personal accounts?
The best part is now their review is due to be completed by mid 2017, no longer early 2017, one again they are pushing the limits to suit themselves and I foot the bill for an additional 6 months,  the central bank really needs to put some kind of deadline in place for these boys to adhere to, they are really just making a laughing stock of any bodies that are _"attempting to regulate them"_ and I use the term loosely.

One question I have for the more informed of you out there, am I correct in saying that as soon as a bank has identified an account has been unfairly refused their tracker rate that the identified account is then entitled to have their tracker restored with immediate effect regardless of then their bank review as a whole has been completed?
This was my main point of frustration with BOI this morning, all I wanted was a yes or no answer, has MY account been reviewed at this point (they would not answer!) and if so has my entitlement to a tracker been decided (she almost laughed at my perseverance when I asked this).

Have any BOI customers out there had any luck in the last few weeks getting information out of them, any hints or tips would be seriously appreciated at this time!


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## Gerry Canning (21 Dec 2016)

Best tip.

Do not raise your blood pressure by phone calls.

+ all in writing + re and re review what you write before you post to ensure its facts only , you are dealing with proven incompetents , with eel like ability to twisr and  obfuscate ( ie lie to us laymen)

I think a bit more patience (on your end) will yield rewards.


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## Linten (21 Dec 2016)

Tillymam said:


> Hi guys, thanks for your comments, if nothing else it's good to know I'm not the only person out there disgusted by how BOI are treating their customers!
> 
> Hi Todo, we took out our mortgage in 2004 and the first year we were on the introductory variable rate. At end of yr 1 I foolishly fixed my mortgage! For 3 years and our decision was solely based on lack of education! And the fact that the fixed rate they offered was the lowest option, even lower than the tracker which we were offered!
> At the end of the 3 years we fixed again for 1 yr at an equally enticing rate....that was the last year of favourable rates tho!
> ...



You have said in earlier post that the mortgage centre confirmed to you that you initially drew down the mortgage on a tracker. On this basis your mortgage is definitely included in the BOI review as all mortgages that had a tracker rate at any time in the period under review are included. This of course does not mean that you are automatically entitled to return of tracker as you may have signed a Mortgage Form of Authorisation (MFA) when fixing your mortgage rate, to the effect that once the fixed rate expired mortgage would revert to variable rate. If you have copies of this documentation then you can check out what conditions you agreed to. You can take it that if you have not received correspondence this week from BOI that you have been restored to Tracker, then you are not one of the 602 cases referred to in recent press release.
The huge frustration of the review, which all on this Forum feel is the total lack of transparency across all Banks, with each doing their own thing in their own time. You would have to conclude(and even more so from the performance of Central Bank senior management at the Public accounts hearing) that CBOI are not in control and dictating the pace and direction of the review, as they should be. We read from other posts of other mortgage holders being returned to tracker(many being pleasantly surprised) in circumstances that appear similar or indeed inferior to our own, but as the Banks are not issuing any detailed criteria around what procedures they are using to qualify mortgage holders to return to tracker rates, we have no idea what's going on. Until the Central Bank take control, the review will plod along, with consumers being kept in the dark as to their own situation, which given the time elapsed since this fiasco began, is a huge violation of consumer protection rights.


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## mister32 (21 Dec 2016)

Nail on the head 


What are the criteria by which banks are deciding? 

Those criteria should be available to everyone so we can check our own contracts 

Why is the entire thing being concealed? 

It can only be in the interest of the banks 

And the central bank afraid of transparency


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## Bronte (22 Dec 2016)

mister32 said:


> I'm an example of person who can't switch and am reluctant to fix because why should I when I should be on a tracker?
> 
> I'm looking to Michael Mc Grath to fix the high variable rates.
> And the central bank to get my tracker back.



Good luck with a politician fixing your high variable rates. Especially if you are not entitled to your tracker back.


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## Bronte (22 Dec 2016)

mister32 said:


> Nail on the head
> 
> 
> What are the criteria by which banks are deciding?
> ...



How about you scan and post up your contract - delete the identifying features.

And I hope you are documentating everything, like your phone call the other day. Which of course should be followed up with a letter or email to them with your stating your conversation.


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## Tillymam (9 Jan 2017)

Only replying on the above now as its taken me ages to try and figure out (and give up on!) how to paste an image or attached a document.
Instead I've just copied the Special Conditions section of my Letter of Offer exactly, see below.

To me the text highlighted in bold is all I would assume I need to confirm that my entitlement to the tracker rate. My problem now is how do I get them to accept that this is the case and get them to restore my rate?
I still haven't heard back from BOI, my complaint has yet to be addressed (20 working days are up tomorrow).
Am I assuming too much or is it as obvious to the rest of you out there that this is all the confirmation I need?


*PART 4-THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS*

The Loan is subject to the following special conditions (the “Special Conditions”) which, unless stated to the contrary, must be complied with in full to the Lender’s satisfaction before the Loan, or any part of it, can be drawn down:


The following Special Conditions apply to the Loan:

If the Loan is redeemed by the Borrower within 36 months of the date the Loan is drawn down, this fact may be disclosed to the introducing mortgage intermediary.

The Property Policy required pursuant to the General Condition 3(B) of the Offer Letter must be effected in the name of the Borrower with the interest of the Lender noted thereon.

(a) Subject to part (b) of this condition, the interest rate applicable to the loan is a variable interest rate and may vary upwards or downwards. *The interest rate shall be no more than 1.3% above the European Central Bank Main Refinancing Operations Minimum Bid Rate (“Repo Rate”) for the term of the loan.* Variation in interest rates shall be implemented by the Lender not later than close of business on the 5th working day following a change in the Repo Rate by the European Central Bank. Notification shall be given to the borrower of any variation in interest rate in accordance with General Condition 6(b) of this Offer letter. In the event that, or at any time, the Repo rate is certified by the lender to be unavailable for any reason the interest rate applicable shall be the Lender’s prevailing Home loan variable rate. (b) For the first 12 months from the date of drawdown of the loan the interest rate as outlined in (a) above shall be discounted by 0.8% and shall be no more than 0.5% active the Repo rate and shall be subject to the terms and conditions outlined in (a) above. At the end of the said 12 month discount period the interest rate applicable to the loan shall revert to the rate as outlined in (a) above i.e. not more than 1.3% above the Repo rate. The discount set out in this special condition is the discount which would apply if the loan were drawn down today. There is no guarantee that this discount will be available when the loan is in fact drawn down. The actual discount that will apply what the discount then offered by the Lender at the date of drawdown.


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## Linten (9 Jan 2017)

*PART 4-THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS*

The Loan is subject to the following special conditions (the “Special Conditions”) which, unless stated to the contrary, must be complied with in full to the Lender’s satisfaction before the Loan, or any part of it, can be drawn down:


The following Special Conditions apply to the Loan:
If the Loan is redeemed by the Borrower within 36 months of the date the Loan is drawn down, this fact may be disclosed to the introducing mortgage intermediary.
The Property Policy required pursuant to the General Condition 3(B) of the Offer Letter must be effected in the name of the Borrower with the interest of the Lender noted thereon.
(a) Subject to part (b) of this condition, the interest rate applicable to the loan is a variable interest rate and may vary upwards or downwards. *The interest rate shall be no more than 1.3% above the European Central Bank Main Refinancing Operations Minimum Bid Rate (“Repo Rate”) for the term of the loan.* Variation in interest rates shall be implemented by the Lender not later than close of business on the 5th working day following a change in the Repo Rate by the European Central Bank. Notification shall be given to the borrower of any variation in interest rate in accordance with General Condition 6(b) of this Offer letter. In the event that, or at any time, the Repo rate is certified by the lender to be unavailable for any reason the interest rate applicable shall be the Lender’s prevailing Home loan variable rate. (b) For the first 12 months from the date of drawdown of the loan the interest rate as outlined in (a) above shall be discounted by 0.8% and shall be no more than 0.5% active the Repo rate and shall be subject to the terms and conditions outlined in (a) above. At the end of the said 12 month discount period the interest rate applicable to the loan shall revert to the rate as outlined in (a) above i.e. not more than 1.3% above the Repo rate. The discount set out in this special condition is the discount which would apply if the loan were drawn down today. There is no guarantee that this discount will be available when the loan is in fact drawn down. The actual discount that will apply what the discount then offered by the Lender at the date of drawdown.

You cannot just rely on the terms of your original Letter of Offer as basis for return of your Tracker rate. You fixed the rate in 2005 and would have signed an MFA at that point which would supersede the original Offer Letter in terms of contractual rights, so it really depends on whether that MFA confirmed your entitlement to revert to Tracker at the end of the Fixed period. If it did not, then you have no legal right to restoration of your tracker....if it did you have a cast iron case. In addition you fixed in 2005 prior to the introduction of Consumer Protection Code, so the Bank would have no accountability under the Code, in terms of clarity of communication, etc. to return the Tracker rate to you.
Bank of Ireland have already reviewed these Loans back in 2010 and restored 2096 cases at that stage and the current review has resulted in further 600 being restored. If you were going to get it back I would suspect you would have it by now. We are told though that the review is still ongoing so there may be still some hope.
It does raise a broader question though, in that there are many hundreds (maybe thousands) of consumers out there who are holding out hope of having their tracker restored across the Banks and it looks like most of those are going to be disappointed at this stage. There is a clear communication process for people who are going to be restored in that the Bank will write to them and explain the basis for giving them back their tracker....but what about the people who are not going to be restored - there is no sense that they are going to be communicated with at all. Are we going to be left without answers, where in many cases lives have already been put on hold for many years on the back of this scandal.


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## Tillymam (9 Jan 2017)

Hi Linten
I understand what your saying re signing away my right to tracker when I fixed, however I do have copies of documents from both times I fixed, 1st in 2005 for 1yr and again in 2006 when I fixed for 3yrs.
On both occasions I was offered the tracker rate but opted for the fixed as it was the most desirable rate on offer.
In 2009 when the fixed expired I just let the rate revert to SVR as I wasn't offered my tracker and their fixed rate was no longer very desirable.
On reading the agreement section of both times I fixed I cannot find any mention of option to tracker being revoked if I fixed (there were 5 terms of agreement attached when I fixed 2005 & 2006) in 2009 however there were 2 additional terms of agreement where it does state signing up to another rate would alter the terms of my original agreement, I however didn't sign and return anything to BOI that year or any year after which is why I feel I definitively have a case to pursue.
Is there a way I can attach documents in this thread so I could try and illustrate my point a little clearer by attaching these agreements -  I fear I'm waffling


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## Linten (9 Jan 2017)

Tillymam said:


> Hi Linten
> I understand what your saying re signing away my right to tracker when I fixed, however I do have copies of documents from both times I fixed, 1st in 2005 for 1yr and again in 2006 when I fixed for 3yrs.
> On both occasions I was offered the tracker rate but opted for the fixed as it was the most desirable rate on offer.
> In 2009 when the fixed expired I just let the rate revert to SVR as I wasn't offered my tracker and their fixed rate was no longer very desirable.
> ...


What do you mean by 'you were offered tracker but opted for fixed' - it sounds like you had a number of options and you went for the fixed option...did the agreement that you subsequently signed on each occasion specify that you would *revert *to original tracker terms on expiry of the fixed rate term as it would normally do. What were the key tenets of  the five terms of the agreement. There is an option to upload a file if you could scan it onto your device.
My concern for you is that all these mortgages & documentation have been reviewed more than once already and you've heard nothing from the Bank.


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