# Converting 2-bed apartment to 1-bed - implications?



## dereko1969 (25 Jan 2012)

My brother is considering the above, I have my own opinions on the matter but would like to see what others think.

He bought the apartment through the "affordable housing" scheme. 

Who *should* he notify of this planned change?

Who is he *obliged* to notify?

What implications do people foresee? Ease of future sale/rent, Management Fees etc.

His plan is basically to just knock down the wall dividing the living room from the second bedroom (and the wall dividing the second bedroom from the hallway) - it's a non load bearing wall he's been told.


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## lowCO2design (25 Jan 2012)

re non-load bearing: told by whom?
get solicitor to review any legal documentation, contracts and inform management company to see what obligation he is under - it may be just noise when working, or they may want professional insurance/ supervision to oversee works.
*caveat:* it would best if he discussed this on-site with an Arch or Eng familiar with apartment fire regulations
there is no reason why this wall cannot be reinstated when he wishes to sell. maybe he's making it clear to you there's no room for you to stay over..


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## dereko1969 (25 Jan 2012)

lowCO2design said:


> re non-load bearing: told by whom? - *a mate who's an engineer (i think)*
> get solicitor to review any legal documentation, contracts and inform management company to see what obligation he is under - it may be just noise when working, or they may want professional insurance/ supervision to oversee works. - *thanks I agree not sure my brother does*
> *caveat:* it would best if he discussed this on-site with an Arch or Eng familiar with apartment fire regulations - *agree*
> there is no reason why this wall cannot be reinstated when he wishes to sell. *maybe he's making it clear to you there's no room for you to stay over*..


 
You might be on to something with the last bit! Nah He's looking for a bigger living room is what he says.


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## Docarch (25 Jan 2012)

Theoretically you may need a fire safety certificate to carry out the alterations as the existing apartment layout would have a fire safety certificate (for the existing layout).  

At a minimum, you would need to get an opionion on compliance and/or letter of comfort that the alterations comply with the building regualtions and/or do not compromise fire safey.


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## threebedsemi (25 Jan 2012)

Docarch is correct, it may well be deemed a 'material alteration' and thus a fire cert may be required. You are certainly oblidged to comply with the requirements of Technical Guidance Document B (Fire Safety) with regard to safe means of escape..etc.

Your first port of call, as Docarch has said, is to get professional advice form someone who has P.I. and is willing to sign you a letter saying if you are in the clear or not.

If there is a management company involved, they would certainly also be interested in the proposals, and may have to sign off on it before you go ahead.


www.studioplustwo.com


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## huskerdu (26 Jan 2012)

An apartment is a leasehold property. 
Does his lease permit this type of work ?


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## Superman (26 Jan 2012)

I echo huskerdu - the wall may not be his property. It might belong to the management company.


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## Bronte (26 Jan 2012)

I wouldn't be worried about fire safety certificate at this stage we all know they are completely pointless and worthless.  

Don't knock a load bearing wall, and if you want to sell do the renovations is such a way as to be able to put back the wall.  Apartments are hard to sell and one beds the worst investment of all.


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## threebedsemi (26 Jan 2012)

Bronte
useless or otherwise (and i would hope that is an off the cuff remark!  ) you are in certain circumstances legally oblidged to obtain one.
if you have a fire or some other mishap and wish to make a claim from your home insurance, having no fire cert when you should have had one, is a nice little get out clause for the insurers...

www.studioplustwo.com


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## lowCO2design (26 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> I wouldn't be worried about fire safety certificate at this stage we all know they are completely pointless and worthless.


 i think that's a bit of a wild statement, its worth abiding by the regulations don't you think? after all its that attitude that some developers took in recent years!


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2012)

threebedsemi said:


> Bronte
> useless or otherwise you are in certain circumstances legally obliged to obtain one.
> if you have a fire or some other mishap and wish to make a claim from your home insurance, having no fire cert when you should have had one, is a nice little get out clause for the insurers...


 
I wasn't aware that a fire safety cert was necessary for the insurance, I've had insurance for many years on various properties but don't recall anything about fire safety certificates.  

Must say though separate to this because of the new rules/regulations on fire safety for landlords I've had someone in to make sure I have fire blankets/extinguisers etc that comply with the regulations, but my insurance company has never made this a condition of the insurance.


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## Bronte (27 Jan 2012)

lowCO2design said:


> i think that's a bit of a wild statement, its worth abiding by the regulations don't you think? after all its that attitude that some developers took in recent years!


 
I'm actually deadly serious.  I wouldn't purchase anything built by developers in the last decade no matter what certificate I was offered.  Personally I think there was very little that was built correctly but they all have plenty of certificates, be they fire, local authority, homebond etc.


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## markpb (27 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> I wasn't aware that a fire safety cert was necessary for the insurance, I've had insurance for many years on various properties but don't recall anything about fire safety certificates.



Perhaps it's because the OP is talking about a multi-unit building instead?


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## dereko1969 (27 Jan 2012)

Thanks for all your comments so far.

I think the plan may have become more complicated since I first posted.

He's thinking of removing the en-suite in the main bedroom and converting it into a walk-in closet and also extending the main bedroom into the second bedroom which will become the lounge.

Any thoughts on that aspect, and also any ballpark figures for the total cost involved? Apartment is in Dublin.


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## Docarch (27 Jan 2012)

Very hard to ballpark costs for this type of work dereko1969.  A big factor in the cost will be the access to the apartment - what floor is it on?

Obviously if it is a ground floor apartment, that makes it easy enough.  If it's anything over ground floor, consideration would have to be given to the materials used and how they are got to 'site' and this has an impact on cost.  

I did a refurb of a third floor aparment in Dublin (I was the architect) but luckily enough the apartment faced onto the street.  The contractor took out one of the windows and used a cherry picker (early one Saturday morning) to get all the big materials (like plasterboard, timber, etc.) in from the street.  

Just to add, in that particular case, we did apply for and get a fire safety certificate for the alterations as the layout of the apartment was being altered.


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## threebedsemi (31 Jan 2012)

_Must say though separate to this because of the new rules/regulations on fire safety for landlords I've had someone in to make sure I have fire blankets/extinguisers etc that comply with the regulations, but my insurance company has never made this a condition of the insurance._

Bronte
Some buildings (pre 1992 works) don't need a fire safery certificate, but must legally comply with other regulations (the Fire Services Act of '81 and apartments/bedsits for example).

However, I would be concerned about a building which does not have its statutory compliances in place with regard to fire safety burning down.
An insurance company may well have an 'out' in such a case and I would urge anyone in this situation to review the fine print of their policies. 

There may well also be the liability of a landlord to his tenants to consider....

www.studioplustwo.com


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## dereko1969 (1 Feb 2012)

Thanks again for the further info, this is what my brother has asked me to post here:

the image attached is what is being done - it seems a very simple job with no implications on fire regulations etc. (none of the doors are fire doors, all windows remain the same etc.)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/roughplan.jpg/

The only part of it that seems necessary to discuss with apartment managers is the plumbing element. I will be moving a sink and toilet from the existing ensuite bathroom to becoming just an ensuite toilet/sink, which requires moving the sink and toilet about 4 feet each within the footprint of the existing bathroom - so a small bit of additional piping internal to the apartment is required.  The existing ensuite simply becomes much smaller then.

There are no structural alterations or interference required with any of the "building" itself - it is all only internal partitions which each of the 3 builders who have quoted indicated could all be reversed if I wanted to sell (admittedly at a higher cost to reverse the work).

None of the query is cost/aesthetics related - it's purely down to legal obligations to disclose. Thanks for all the comments - it's interesting reading.


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## sam h (1 Feb 2012)

Is it you or your brother??  Makes no difference, just wondering.

If you (or you brother) plan to make this their home for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't worry about the consequences for resale.  I changed the bathroom when I moved in to my home & wanted to put in a large walk-in shower in place of the bath.  Everyone said I was mad as it would affect the resale value - 13 year later I doubt it make much difference.  Though, baths have become popular in our house again.


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## dereko1969 (1 Feb 2012)

It's my brother - he can't post links so emailed me the text which I included above.


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## lowCO2design (1 Feb 2012)

dereko1969 said:


> Thanks again for the further info, this is what my brother has asked me to post here:
> 
> the image attached is what is being done - *it seems a very simple job with no implications on fire regulations etc. (none of the doors are fire doors, all windows remain the same etc.)*
> 
> ...


one concern would be that your existing corridor is (or maybe should be) a fire rated corridor and by enlarging the living space you are effectively extending the distance from the far corner of the living room to the final exit - see page 24/25 with regards to acceptable travel distances http://www.environ.ie/en/Publicatio...ng/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

I would recommend you get a professional to review this - it may just be a case of getting a letter stating that the changes comply with current regulations and passing this on to the management company which he probably should be informing anyway given the proposed plumbing alterations. have you looked at the contract??


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## DublinGirl23 (17 Jun 2012)

dereko1969 can I ask how your brother got on with this? Thinking of knocking a wall to make two bedrooms into one bedroom in my apartment (owned, not rented).

Did he have to seek permission from the management company? From the developers? I'd love to know how he got on.


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