# [MOVED] Is 12 really perfect - discuss



## zag (18 Oct 2001)

HTML Comments are not allowed


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## zag (18 Oct 2001)

*Re: Do we really need this forum...*

Thanks for those links - I had a quick look around these two sites and while no doubt they contain a lot of relevant information, I couldn't find somewhere to ask a question like "what happens if I discover £1,000 in cash under the bed two years from now ?"  If there is somewhere like that then please post the link here.

I believe there will be a demand for this forum over the next few months.  If there is no demand, then have we lost anything ?  I don't think so.  If we didn't have the forum there would be people posting something giving out that we have no suitable forum for their questions . . .

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

z


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## lisa simpson (18 Oct 2001)

*Do we need this forum?*

Dear CM

I truly believe that a forum like this is absolutely essential to enable us to establish all the salient facts. We have an innate curiosity in receiving knowledge on all issues and I don't see why the euro should be different. 

We seek the truth, we need the truth for our very survival. 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* You are wrong about the 12 stars*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->  It has nothing to do with the euro zone countries. This in itself should prove to the world at large why it is important to be educated to the highest standards possible. I think that you should rectify your answer in the other topic. It would be best if you seek to find the correct answer yourself. But, If you need help in finding it, please let me know and I will give you some pointers.

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## CM (18 Oct 2001)

*12 stars*

<!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* You are wrong about the 12 stars*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Well, if that's the case then I'm in good (?) company since the aforementioned explanatory link is to the official EU Euro, sorry, euro, web site. Of course I'm assuming that your post isn't simply ironic...


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## lisa simpson (18 Oct 2001)

*we really do need this topic*

Dear CM

Gee whiz I know that I can be a real pain in the butt sometimes, so please don't be disheartened when I tell you that your explanatory note does not bear out the existence of the truth concerning the 12 stars. 

You are being a little unfair to the EU site, it doesn't mention on the pages you linked to that the 12 stars represent the 12 countries.

You are going to have to try a little harder. You know I wouldn't continue with this if I thought I could be wrong. I love to be always right.

:rollin  <!--EZCODE CENTER START-->I so totally know the answer​<!--EZCODE CENTER END--> :rollin   


Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## The Virus (18 Oct 2001)

*Re: we really do not need this topic*

I think there is some confusion here.:eek 

CM is reminding us that there are 12 participants in the EURO lest some of us are unaware that Greece is also joining.

The 12 stars have nothing whatsoever to do with the EURO.  Thay are part of the flag of the EU, currently consisting of 15 countries.|I 

Once after a few tries Ireland finally ratifies the Nice treaty the membership is due to be enlarged to hundreds of countries.

The 12 stars never was meant to relate to countries, unlike the stars of the Stars and Stripes, which relate to States.

My guess is that it is the 12 apostles.  Or maybe the 12 months in the year. Or maybe the 12 points on a clock.  Or maybe it represents <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* absolutely nothing*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, which would be fitting for the vacuous abomination that is the EU.:evil


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## lisa simpson (18 Oct 2001)

*we definitely need this forum*

Dear Virus

Such a cool name. Strange to see you out of your natural habitat - letting off stream. But you are so totally wrong when you say <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* Or maybe it represents absolutely nothing*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Gee guys am I the only one here in possesion of such remarkable knowledge

:rollin  <!--EZCODE CENTER START-->I so totally know the answer​<!--EZCODE CENTER END-->:rollin 

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## CM (19 Oct 2001)

*D'oh!*

Mea culpa! :O  I give in - what's the correct answer so?


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## The Virus (19 Oct 2001)

*Re: we definitely do not not not need this forum*

Starting to suffer respiratory problems.  One last gasp.  UDS has given a most comprehensive explanation in an adjacent and indeed the originating topic.  BTW how come this debate derailed from its original topic?:evil


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## lisa simpson (19 Oct 2001)

*we so totally need this forum*

Dear Virus

I was just about to post the answer - I think CM thinks I'm bluffing, but I'm not, but I had to make a diversion to the adjacent topic - thank you Virus - to peruse the reply by UDS.

I don't believe it..........UDS is wrong. 

Anybody else care to have a go? 

:rollin  <!--EZCODE CENTER START-->I so totally know the answer​<!--EZCODE CENTER END-->


Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## CM (19 Oct 2001)

*This is great fun! Even better than "The Craic"*

12...

...angry men?
...green bottles?
...days of Christmas?
...buckle me shoe?

Am I warm?


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## lisa simpson (19 Oct 2001)

*this forum is great crack!*

Cut it out CM, you're just poking fun at my superior knowledge.

Sorry for the delay in replying but I so had to watch Itchy and Scratchy 

:rollin  <!--EZCODE CENTER START-->I so totally know the answer​<!--EZCODE CENTER END--> :rollin 

I will take you all out of your misery later this evening - I'm just giving others a chance to establish the fact that I'm the brainest in AAMsville.

"if anyone needs me, I'll be in my room".   

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## lisa simpson (19 Oct 2001)

*This forum is essential*

Dear ALL

UDS said <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* Thus the twelve stars symbolise the whole EU*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

While technically correct, his reasoning was incorrect. The selection of the stars had nothing whatsoever to do with the representative member states at the time.

12 was selected because it is a symbol of perfection and completness.

[broken link removed]

Thanks for the fun

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## lisa simpson (22 Oct 2001)

*challenging times on this forum*

Double HUM!!!

Lisa has been challenged and consequently needs to carry out further reseach on this topic considering that UDS isn't happy with the answer provided by the <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* official EU website.*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

My thinking, howevr, is that he delights in obfuscation  

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## Madonna (23 Oct 2001)

*Re: What a rubbish forum*

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>*Quote:*<hr>  <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_  <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  "12 was selected because it is a symbol of perfection and completness"*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->
Mathematically speaking 12 is by no means <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  perfect*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.

A <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  perfect*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> number is one whose factors add up to itself.|I   <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_  (really is tiresome having to constantly state the bleeding obvious on AAM)_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->|I  

Thus, obviously 1 is a <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  perfect*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> number.

So is 6 (1+2+3=6).

The next smallest <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  perfect*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> number is 28 (1+2+4+7+14).

Clearly 12 (1+2+3+4+6=16) is far from <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  perfect*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.:rolleyes  

Really, the standard of mathematical literacy on AAM is appalling.:x


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## CM (23 Oct 2001)

*Ah...*

... but that's only part of the story...

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_ Today the usual definition of a perfect number is in terms of its divisors, but early definitions were in terms of the 'aliquot parts' of a number. 

An aliquot part of a number is a proper quotient of the number. So for example the aliquot parts of 10 are 1, 2 and 5. These occur since 1 = 10/10, 2 = 10/5, and 5 = 10/2. Note that 10 is not an aliquot part of 10 since it is not a proper quotient, i.e. a quotient different from the number itself. A perfect number is defined to be one which is equal to the sum of its aliquot parts. 

..._<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

Excited?! Then


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## Madonna (24 Oct 2001)

*This is an incredibly useful forum*

Read that very exciting link (oooh! aaaah!) but it seems to me that aliquots <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*  are*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> divisors.

One way or the other, the link proves conclusively that 12 is a very imperfect number.:rolleyes


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## Freddie Kruger (24 Oct 2001)

*Re: This is an incredibly useful forum*

Great Debate my ar...(sorry Madonna) posterior.

Methinks the lunatics have taken over the asylum :lol


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## lisa simpson (10 Nov 2001)

*Bonjour*

Salut à tous de Bruxelles

Je suis en train de découvrir quelque chose je pense. 

à toute a l'heure


Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## CM (10 Nov 2001)

*Waloon*

Any chance we could have that in Flemish as well. Parity of esteem and all that you know.... :lol


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## Rupert Bear (10 Nov 2001)

*Re: Sacre Bleu*

J'ai oublie que nous avons une probleme avec les douze etoiles de l'EU.

Est-ce-que vous avez trouve le solution, Lisa?:|


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## lisa simpson (10 Nov 2001)

*les 12 étoiles*

If faut avoir de patience

Knowledge is power  

Lisa


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## Pacman (14 Nov 2001)

*Sacre Bleu*

The French for EU is UE!


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## Grundy (14 Nov 2001)

*EU/UE*

Madonna was presumably referring to the US which in francais is Etats Unis.


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## lisa simpson (20 Nov 2001)

*Je suis de retour*

Dear 

In the historical review you will read that the Council of Europe adopted the circle of 12 stars in 1955. The Council of Europe agreed to the use by the European Community (since the Maastricht Treaty the European Union) of the European flag that it had adopted in 1955 and Community institutions have been using it since the beginning of 1986.

<!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* The symbolic description they gave to the emblem is: the symbol of perfection and entirety.*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

You will receive a copy of the graphic manual in a few days.

Sincerely yours,
Paul Leunen


Seems like they just decided that the 12 stars would symbolise perfection and unity. There is no historical basis other than that. They can do that you know, these bureaucrats. :lol 

Bureaucracy is power  

Lisa


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## CM (20 Nov 2001)

*Hmmm...*

So now the 12 stars represent not just "perfection" but "entirety" as well, eh!? Nothing if not ambitious these eurocrats! :lol


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