# Supermarket Shopping:  North -vs- South



## MrEarl

Hello,

A friend sent me an email suggesting that there were now signficiant savings to be made by shopping north of the border.  Unfortunitely, they didn't have specific examples for me.

Obviously, the exchange rate was one reason given, but my friend was also suggesting that these savings were due to notable price differences - possibly driven by southern retailers not passing on the benefits of weaker sterling, to their euro customers. 

Has anyone put this to the test recently and if so, what were some of the better savings and what shops were they in please ?

Out of interest, has anyone also checked magazine prices in Easons compared with the UK prices ? ... this used to be a regular bone of contention, as I recall.


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## thedaddyman

I passed by Sainsburys in Sprucefields on my way down from Belfast last week. There were good savings to be made in wine (plenty of semi decent bottles at £4.75-£5.50 a bottle.) also in toiletries and lots of special offers which definately were cheaper. For example, dishwasher tablets which we would pay €8 or so down here for were £5.

And yes, magazines were way cheaper but I've stopped buying most magazines these days and instead get a digital subscription via Zinio


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## Protocol

*Sudocrem 400g*

5.50-5.80 in NI, about 6.47-7.00 using 85p exchange

10.59 in Tesco RoI

*Bananas 1kg loose*

68p in NI, that's about 80 cent

1.25 here


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## huskerdu

I used to shop in Newry occasionally.

Wine and beer have always been cheaper due to the lower tax in UK. 
Some big brand items are significantly cheaper in NI supermarkets (branded nappies, baby formula, branded washing machine and dishwasher detergents being examples).
However, if you regularly shop in Lidl and Aldi, the price comparison is much smaller.

If you live close the to border, shopping in the north is practical. If you intend driving from Dublin to shop in Newry to save money, I would suggest pricing the full car of groceries, and add in the price of petrol before commiting to your day out. You would need to buy an awful lot of bananas to make a significant saving.


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## Delboy

Conor Pope had a piece on this in the IT yesterday....28% cheaper on a shop on the North v's the South
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/cons...ling-slide-means-for-irish-shoppers-1.2827086


> A 790g box of Kellogg’s Corn Flakes that sells for €3.85 in Tesco outlets in the Republic costs £2.49 in the UK – a euro equivalent of €2.77, based on current rates. Two litres of own-brand milk in the Republic costs €1.49, while 2.3 litres of own-brand milk in the UK costs £1, or just €1.11. A 280g tub of[broken link removed] cream cheese is €3.30 in the Republic and £2.40 (€2.67) in UK. A bottle of Hardys Legacy Shiraz costs €8 in the Republic and £4.50 (€5) in the UK. A packet of 56 Pampers baby wipes in the Republic is €1.99 but £1.40 – €1.56 – in the North. The total cost of these five items in a Tesco outlet in[broken link removed] is €18.20, but a shopper in nearby [broken link removed] would have to spend only €13.11 – 28 per cent less. Spread out over the course of a substantial supermarket shop, crossing the Border could easily save about €60, based on current currency exchange rates.
> If you are organising a big party and need a lot of booze, you could save a fair few bob by crossing the Border. A bottle of Faustino VII is €10 in Tesco outlets in the Republic and £7.50 (€8.34) in the North, a saving of €1.66. A bottle of fancier [broken link removed] Reserva will save you a lot more. It is selling for €28.85 in Dundalk and £14 (€15.59) in Newry. If you were to buy 100 bottles of this wine for a wedding, say, you could save just over €1,000.


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## gipimann

Recent article from the indo on savings to be made on toys, etc:

http://www.independent.ie/business/...hoppers-are-being-tempted-north-35116516.html


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## T McGibney

huskerdu said:


> I used to shop in Newry occasionally.
> 
> However, if you regularly shop in Lidl and Aldi, the price comparison is much smaller.



This is the key.  Since Aldi & Lidl got their act together in RoI 4 or 5 years ago, Asda & Tesco in NI have struggled to even remotely match them on prices.


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## huskerdu

Delboy said:


> Conor Pope had a piece on this in the IT yesterday....28% cheaper on a shop on the North v's the South
> http://www.irishtimes.com/news/cons...ling-slide-means-for-irish-shoppers-1.2827086



This illustates my point quite well.
His examples are very specific. There are savings on some products, but his sample is too small to be accurate across the board.

If you CAN save €60 on a big shop, subtract the cost of the petrol, and see if some of the savings can be made  by switching brands, before heading off.


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## Protocol

huskerdu said:


> Wine and beer have always been cheaper due to the lower tax in UK.



Please note that UK beer excise is *higher *than our beer excise.

The higher retail price here is due to *higher wholesale prices*, not higher excise.

This may be due to the dominance of Diageo, and their few competitors.


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## Protocol

Check www.asda.com and  for prices.


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## Daenis

It's all very well to consider shopping in the north to save money but personally I think it is important to also consider the bigger picture - shopping in the north is supporting the Northern Ireland/uk economy rather than the irish economy, shopping in the north is supporting northern jobs rather than irish jobs, buying and spending sterling is supporting sterling rather than the euro.  With the increased popularity of online shopping we already spend a lot outside of our local economy and possibly outside the European economy and just feel when it comes to our regular weekly shopping it is important to apply the 'buy local' principle if not in terms of our local village or town at least to our country.


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## MrEarl

huskerdu said:


> ....If you live close the to border, shopping in the north is practical. If you intend driving from Dublin to shop in Newry to save money, I would suggest pricing the full car of groceries, and add in the price of petrol before commiting to your day out. You would need to buy an awful lot of bananas to make a significant saving.



Thats a good point, but one could also pop into The Outlets at Banbridge and get a few bargains to help ensure a decent return on the journey.


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## MrEarl

Daenis said:


> It's all very well to consider shopping in the north to save money but personally I think it is important to also consider the bigger picture.....



Thats a very nice sentiment, but do the retailers, wholesalers and importers in the south care as much about you ?


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## Protocol

Daenis said:


> It's all very well to consider shopping in the north to save money but personally I think it is important to also consider the bigger picture - shopping in the north is supporting the Northern Ireland/uk economy rather than the irish economy, shopping in the north is supporting northern jobs rather than irish jobs, buying and spending sterling is supporting sterling rather than the euro.  With the increased popularity of online shopping we already spend a lot outside of our local economy and possibly outside the European economy and just feel when it comes to our regular weekly shopping it is important to apply the 'buy local' principle if not in terms of our local village or town at least to our country.



Landlords and wholesalers in RoI charge too high prices.

They complain when people don't shop local.

But they won't reduce their rents or wholesale prices.

So they will suffer.................


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## Protocol

Sudocrem is made in Swords.

They charge 10.59 in RoI.

They charge 7.00 euro in NI.

They charge RoI more as we have a higher willingness to pay.

Well, many people reject that, and travel to NI to pay 7.00 euro for same product.


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## moneybox

huskerdu said:


> If you CAN save €60 on a big shop, subtract the cost of the petrol, and see if some of the savings can be made  by switching brands, before heading off.



Oh will you stop    isn't it great fun heading off up to the north for a days shopping. Many people enjoy it, the planning involved, getting the bargains, the feel good factor,  roll on Christmas!


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## Leo

Protocol said:


> Landlords and wholesalers in RoI charge too high prices.



You talking about commercial rents there? Why do you think commercial rents too high here?


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## thedaddyman

7 or 8 years ago we saved a fortune on baby milk ( medical reasons why we were restricted to what we could feed the smallie). It was literally half the price in Newry then it was in the South. Even allowing for petrol and tolls, we probably saved €150+ a month on that alone + whatever else we got when we were up there. I'll be checking the Toys R Us website just in case Santa needs a hand, there is one next to Sainsburys in Sprucefield


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## MrEarl

Are we not supposed to be one of the biggest exporters of babby formula in the world, yet it's cheaper to buy it up North ?



Leo said:


> You talking about commercial rents there? Why do you think commercial rents too high here?



Supply-vs-Demand my friend, less demand up north....


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## Protocol

Sudocrem and Guinness are made in RoI.

Yet cheaper in NI.

[Not due to beer excise]

Why?

Firms know that the Irish are willing to pay more, so they can get away with charging more.


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## MrEarl

Protocol said:


> Sudocrem and Guinness are made in RoI.
> 
> Yet cheaper in NI.
> 
> [Not due to beer excise]
> 
> Why?
> 
> Firms know that the Irish are willing to pay more, so they can get away with charging more.



Well, if thats the case then there's a strong arguement for buying a competitors product, if you do end up traveling up north to get your goods.

Rip Off Ireland ... you just have to love it


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## Protocol

I do, I go for Beamish, especially when 4 for 5 euro or 6 euro.

I buy Guinness at Xmas, when 24 cans for 24-30 euro.


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## Leo

MrEarl said:


> Supply-vs-Demand my friend, less demand up north....



The Q was to Protocol who states they are too high here without explanation.


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## Protocol

*Comm rents*

UORR - still applies to existing leases, so rents can't adjust to market realities - if we need a referendum to change this, then so be it.

Quinns pub Drumcondra, 30,000 per month rent, obviously way too high, tenant reports that 15,000 is possible - this is one reason why prices are too high in Dublin.

In my opinion, that rent should fall 90% to maybe 3,000 per month.

Many retail chains entered examinership to re-negotiate massive rents, so as to remain viable.

River Island, Grafton street, rent is 28% of turnover - way too high.

Debehams - rents paid to Roche family are causing business to face problems.

And so on, all over the country.


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## T McGibney

Funny how this Rip off Ireland malarkey only starts off when Sterling falls precipitously against the Euro. 3 or 4 months ago we weren't hearing much about Rip Off Northern Ireland, although most shopping up there was more expensive than here.


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## elacsaplau

Tommy,

I think the medical term is 20:20 currency sight?!


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## tallpaul

T McGibney said:


> Funny how this Rip off Ireland malarkey only starts off when Sterling falls precipitously against the Euro. 3 or 4 months ago we weren't hearing much about Rip Off Northern Ireland, although most shopping up there was more expensive than here.


I'm sure our Northern counterparts were moaning about Rip-Off Northern Ireland for the past while. It has been quite obvious around town at weekends the volumes of northern travellers to Dublin to take advantage of the then Sterling strength.

Swings and roundabouts and all that...


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## Gerry Canning

T Mc Gibney mentioned lidl/Aldi compete very well here v N I prices.

In Derry recently and noticed Lidl items even allowing for £stg were dearer than in L,Kenny Lidl.!


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## T McGibney

Gerry Canning said:


> T Mc Gibney mentioned lidl/Aldi compete very well here v N I prices.
> 
> In Derry recently and noticed Lidl items even allowing for £stg were dearer than in L,Kenny Lidl.!



That's been the way for years in Enniskillen too, Gerry, for some peculiar reason, perhaps the absence of Aldi


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## T McGibney

tallpaul said:


> I'm sure our Northern counterparts were moaning about Rip-Off Northern Ireland for the past while.


I've never, ever heard it said actually.


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## jjm

Hi
I have purchased sudocream 400g   a few times over the past year in some of the local discount stores for about half the price  Quoted for NI


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## jjm

Hi
Just back from shopping ,Checked out prices of sudocream   tesco/super valeu /supersavers all same price ,discount store  no longer in buisness others, had no stocks at present 
boots 10.50 EURO per 400g, will check back if I find better price, Last time i bought 250g for 1.49 in discount store,I always found it could  buy it for half the price of boots,


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## Purple

Wages are higher here so prices will be higher... are we allowed to point that out?


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## cremeegg

Daenis said:


> It's all very well to consider shopping in the north to save money but personally I think it is important to also consider the bigger picture - shopping in the north is supporting the Northern Ireland/uk economy rather than the irish economy, shopping in the north is supporting northern jobs rather than irish jobs, buying and spending sterling is supporting sterling rather than the euro.



I think that shopping where the best value is to be found makes sense both for the consumer in the immediate sense, and for the economy in the longer term. It is in everybody's best interest that uncompetitive businesses fail sooner rather than later.

If we re going to indulge in emotional "support" of "Irish" business I for one am equally happy to support the economy in Enniskillen as Sligo, Derry as Letterkenny or Newry as Dublin.


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## cremeegg

Protocol said:


> *Comm rents*
> 
> UORR - still applies to existing leases, so rents can't adjust to market realities - if we need a referendum to change this, then so be it.



Well if there were to be a referendum I for one would vote against. Why should stupid retailers who freely signed leases they could not afford be bailed out at the expense of property owners ?


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## MrEarl

Purple said:


> Wages are higher here so prices will be higher... are we allowed to point that out?



If you are going down that route, then you need to consider all living costs - rent / homeloan rates, electricity and gas supply, food, taxation etc. etc.


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## Purple

MrEarl said:


> If you are going down that route, then you need to consider all living costs - rent / homeloan rates, electricity and gas supply, food, taxation etc. etc.


Food: labour is a major input cost.
Electricity/Gas: Labour is a major input cost (in the case of the ESB it's over 50%)
Taxation: it's high because public employees are paid more than the UK and other European countries.
Home loan costs; they are high because house costs are high. We have a construction sector with very high wages and utterly inefficient construction methods.
To a great extent the cost of living is a reflection of wage costs or more particularly wage costs as a function of labour efficiency. We are not particularly efficient in the state sector or in sectors which are not open to international competition (and international best practice) but our wage costs are high. If want to be better off we need to be more efficient and productive. Just paying everyone more only makes everything more expensive. It's ironic that people understood that in the last 1980's but don't now.


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## MrEarl

Purple said:


> Food: labour is a major input cost.
> Electricity/Gas: Labour is a major input cost (in the case of the ESB it's over 50%)
> Taxation: it's high because public employees are paid more than the UK and other European countries.
> Home loan costs; they are high because house costs are high. We have a construction sector with very high wages and utterly inefficient construction methods.
> To a great extent the cost of living is a reflection of wage costs or more particularly wage costs as a function of labour efficiency. We are not particularly efficient in the state sector or in sectors which are not open to international competition (and international best practice) but our wage costs are high. If want to be better off we need to be more efficient and productive. Just paying everyone more only makes everything more expensive. It's ironic that people understood that in the last 1980's but don't now.



So, having gone through all of that, where are you now on the trip up North for shopping, given the prices are far cheaper then in RoI ?


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## Protocol

Our labour costs are *below *German labour costs, yet our price level is 20% higher.

Here are 2015 hourly labour costs across the whole economy:


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## T McGibney

Protocol said:


> Our labour costs are *below *German labour costs, yet our price level is 20% higher.



Of course they're higher. We don't have the Germans' economies of scale and they don't have our shipping costs.


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## Protocol

Irish labour costs have been 29.80 per hour during 2012-2013-2014, and were 30.00 per hour in 2015. So flat for 4 years.

UK labour costs , expressed in euro, were 25.70 in 2015.

So our lab costs were 17% higher than UK during 2015, according to Eurostat.


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## jjm

hi protocol
If you know can you please explain Other Cost ,Wages and salaries  ,I am interested in manafacturing cost data


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## Protocol

jjm2016 said:


> hi protocol
> If you know can you please explain Other Cost ,Wages and salaries  ,I am interested in manafacturing cost data



Jim2016,

are you in the wrong thread here?

You are referring to wage data, I think?


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## jjm

on post no 39 labour cost accross the whole economy, I would like to know what is included in the blue section on the bar chart ,Any poster like to explain what is included,IE prsi social insurance or something else Protocol thanks


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## jjm

Anyone have data for manafacturing across the EU (Labour cost)


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## Protocol

Jim 2016,

Yes, the blue section of each column would be employers social insurance.


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## peemac

Protocol said:


> Irish labour costs have been 29.80 per hour during 2012-2013-2014, and were 30.00 per hour in 2015. So flat for 4 years.
> 
> UK labour costs , expressed in euro, were 25.70 in 2015.
> 
> So our lab costs were 17% higher than UK during 2015, according to Eurostat.


In 2015 exchange rate averaged 1.37. 

Apply current exchange rate and UK cost is now about €21/hour.

I don't buy the 20% higher price either.  people change shopping habits depending on price, so overall the real extra cost is very small. 

Example - today some items I bought were shampoo,  conditioner, frozen pizza, bag salad, cat food, veg, biscuits,  washing powder and deodorant. 

I could pick set premium brands without offers and be charged almost €40 for those items.  but I and most people are not dedicated to brands in those products,  so real cost by buying premium brands / variations on special offer was under €25.

The person going north always seems to compare full price in south, but chooses special offers in north (media, esp indo, does this too) and has rose tinted glasses on and thinks they have 'saved' €xx when in reality if they bought wisely in their local store,  they'd save just as much.


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## jjm

Thanks Protocol for your reply on post 52, Any one else got manafacturing  wage data by sector Ireland /EU


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## Vanessa

I dont know about groceries etc but I know someone in Louth who has a bank account in Newry and over 20 years has built up a nice pension fund by dealing in currency. All it takes is a lump sum you dont need to access and patience to wait for a very favourable rate to exchange


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## Protocol

jjm2016,

this is off-topic, but here is 2015 earnings data in Ireland:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2015/

Average earnings in industry = 44,168

Average full-time earnings across the economy = 45,075


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## jjm

Thanks Protocol
Off Topic but related ,


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## shweeney

some of the examples above..  dishwasher tabs - Lidls are the best and dirt cheap, same goes for washing detergents; Cereal - get the own brand version etc. etc. 

If you're looking at buying wine for £4 a bottle, you can get plonk in Lidl and Aldi for not much more.  For higher quality stuff and spirits the argument for going North might be stronger.


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