# Bullying in work



## Mick31 (17 Mar 2008)

Hi guys,


a friend of mine was bullied in his work place few months ago by his line manager, who generally did not like his character, and it involved things such as 'you need a shrink' and there was also reference to his family etc..

He never reported this, nor he confronted his line manager since he was afraid as he says.  He also says that next in line manager was aware of this; however no action had been taken.  

Now he is talking about going to court and trade union.  

I would like to hear your opinion in regards to this;  how significant is it that he never reported anything within the company he works for, and does that affect eventual court proceedings?  

I told him he should have reported these incidents; however he keeps dismissing this saying that other relevant people in the company have been aware of this and did not do anything to help him which he sees as their legal duty.


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## ajapale (17 Mar 2008)

Does the company have a grievance procedure?


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## Mick31 (17 Mar 2008)

It does. However, he is a work permit holder and his line manager signs for renewal on year to year basis; hence his fear. The company certainly has a right not to renew your work permit if they are not 'in position to maintain you in employment'. Tricky one alright?


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## Purple (17 Mar 2008)

Very tricky one. Non EU migrant workers need more protection.


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## Diziet (17 Mar 2008)

There is a requirement in these cases to go through the company's formal grievance process. Then it can go to a Rights Commissioner, Labour court or Court. This makes sense - the company should have an opportunity to rectify matters. if there is a nion, then it makes sense to involve them.

Bullying is a serious problem - we spend a lot of our life at work after all. Being practical, you need to keep in mind the desired outcome. Define that first - is it for the line manager to change behaviour, is it to change line managers, is it to change jobs? Courts (as in the High Court) are in fact the last and very unsatisfactory resort in cases of bullying. The process is long, expensive, confrontational and no doubt traumatic.

I personally think your friend should do some job hunting and change jobs before his/her mental heath suffers. But that is a personal opinion, supported unfortunately by personal experience.


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## becky (18 Mar 2008)

The managers manager has a case to answer as he is obliged to ensure the workplace is safe.

However, I would go to the union in the first instance - he will need to diary the event to date - when the 'bullying' occured and have a list of people who witnessed this.

I am of the view that a new job would be the ideal solution but as he is a work permit holder this isn't an option yet.


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## Orga (18 Mar 2008)

I have dealt frequently with bullying cases. Your colleague needs to decide what he wants as outcome. Then, if he so wishes he can:
1. Complain to the next-in-line manager. He is entitled to representation and if he is non-Irish I suspect that his English language skills may not be an issue and so he should ensure representation.
2. He should be sure that he has supporting witnesses, documentation etc to bolster his case.
3. He should get a copy of the greviance procedure and ensure that it meets best practice guidelines cf guidelines published by minister Tony Killeen's office about 2 years ago -  Expert Group on Workplace Bullying
4. He may wish to get union advice on this.
5. There are a number of health and safety consultants who specialise in this kind of work for a fee.
6. If there is a formal investigation he will need to comply, attend etc. Failure to do so could open him to disciplinry action.
7. He should realise that many of these cases come down to conversations to which there are no witnesses and where it is difficult for a judgement to be reached owith finality


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## hhhhhhhhhh (18 Mar 2008)

Mick31 said:


> He never reported this,
> 
> Now he is talking about going to court and trade union.
> 
> relevant people in the company have been aware of this and did not do anything to help him which he sees as their legal duty.



If the company has a procedure in palce to handle such suitations and he didn't follow it, he cannot take the company to court, as he didn't follow correct procedure.

How does he know that relevant people know about the isssue ? that could just be his reading of the issue.


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## Mick31 (18 Mar 2008)

Structure of the company makes it possible for next in line manager (in this case) to be aware of issues like these.  There is a service co-ordinator in the company who is basically aware of these issues; although not as a matter of anyone reporting incidents, but rather from communication flow within the company.


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## efm (18 Mar 2008)

Mick31 said:


> There is a service co-ordinator in the company who is basically aware of these issues; although not as a matter of anyone reporting incidents, but rather from communication flow within the company.


 
How does that work then? How does the coordinator know that anyone was bullied? - Has anyone come to them and said "I was bullied"? While they may have over heard or suspect can they be expected to act formally if no formal notification has taken place?


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## becky (18 Mar 2008)

Efm - if you as a manager over hear or witness bullying you are obliged to act on same and not wait for a complaint.


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## efm (18 Mar 2008)

becky said:


> Efm - if you as a manager over hear or witness bullying you are obliged to act on same and not wait for a complaint.


 
Absolutely; but I was refering to the coordinator becoming aware of bullying "...from communication flow within the company."  I'm not sure what this means.

If this means I am hearing about this second or third hand then I am not going to act on what is effectively hearsay


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## A_b (18 Mar 2008)

from my experience some managers think its ok to bully the people under them. I have yet to see an outcome that favours the employee.  More often than not, the manager has twisted and turned things and made it out that the employee was unco-operative etc hence employee getting a bad reputation.


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## efm (18 Mar 2008)

A_b said:


> from my experience some managers think its ok to bully the people under them. I have yet to see an outcome that favours the employee. More often than not, the manager has twisted and turned things and made it out that the employee was unco-operative etc hence employee getting a bad reputation.


 
Indeed - however, I have also seen pressure by a manager on an employee to do the job they are paid to do being construed as bullying, which is not necessarily the case.


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## cork (18 Mar 2008)

I was asked to do stuff recently that was outside the functions of the office - I refused to do such work.

Ever since - I am getting a frosty rececption.

Does it bother me?

No way - It is just a symptom of the crap organisation I work for.



> from my experience some managers think its ok to bully the people under them. I have yet to see an outcome that favours the employee. More often than not, the manager has twisted and turned things and made it out that the employee was unco-operative etc hence employee getting a bad reputation


 

I agree. 

The best way to confront a bully is let them know their bullying is ineffective. Smile away at them. This is easier said then done.

Keep a diary of bullying.

Bullying is widespread throughout the private and public sector.


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## Mick31 (18 Mar 2008)

Right guys,

I will try to make it as simple as possible.  Basically, the guy's line manager writes to the service co-ordinator about why this employee (a friend of mine) is not suitable for this job.  That's how the service co-ordinator knows what's going on.  

Stuff that he wrote is basically the same what he said to my friend.  There is a grievance policy within the company, and it is detailed enough; however he thinks that service co-ordinator failed to do his job


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## S.L.F (19 Mar 2008)

efm said:


> Indeed - however, I have also seen pressure by a manager on an employee to do the job they are paid to do being construed as bullying, which is not necessarily the case.



Absolutely true but anybody who has been bullied will tell you that bullying goes on for years its not always for the 2 seconds when a manager is on your ass to get things done and bullies tend to pick on 1 target for destruction they never pick on groups because bullies are cowards.
Most people who are seriously bullied don't even know they are being targeted until the penny drops, I mean its not like they'll have a sign on their back with "I'm a bully beware".
The difference between is bad managers bully good managers manage​


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## gillarosa (19 Mar 2008)

Mick31 said:


> Right guys,
> 
> I will try to make it as simple as possible. Basically, the guy's line manager writes to the service co-ordinator about why this employee (a friend of mine) is not suitable for this job. That's how the service co-ordinator knows what's going on.
> 
> Stuff that he wrote is basically the same what he said to my friend. There is a grievance policy within the company, and it is detailed enough; however he thinks that service co-ordinator failed to do his job


 
Hi Mick, 
Assuming then that the Line Manager has written what could only be construed as offensive and unprofessional remarks about the Employee's mental state and his family there would now be a paper trail, your friend should go to his shop stewart if the workplace is unionised and request that they both give him advice on how he should proceed with a grievance complaint and assist him with any paperwork and attend future meetings with him as witness. It needs to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible.
Best of luck.


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