# can she take my kids away?



## NewEdition (30 Jan 2014)

Split up with the wife.
we are on ok terms, talking and have an undocumented financial agreement.
there is a small hope of reconciliation, but only 10% i think
she now says she is just thinking of moving away overseas.
can she do this??
Can i object?
surely she cannot do this?
She has travelled with them before, no questions asked at airport.
She coukd do it without me knowing and then they will be gone.
We are separated, not divorced, we figure most things out regarding kids, but this has come as a shock!
how can i stop this?
I could steal the kids passports, but if thats found out it could make things worse


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## Sue Ellen (30 Jan 2014)

You may find some advice here.


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## robert 200 (30 Jan 2014)

Sounds like she is having an affair with someone overseas - if she is it wont last to long


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## NewEdition (30 Jan 2014)

I dont think its like that. She just wants to get away from Ireland/me.
how can i stop this?
I dont know if she is playing a game with me, but she seems quite serious.
i have seen visa applications in the house.


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## NewEdition (30 Jan 2014)

Surely its kidnapping.
this cannot be legal.
does a visa application need both parents consent?
I see them ending up somewhere and i will get an email saying where they are and to come and visit "if i want to"
The fact that it may be the otger side of the world may make this impossible
She could be gone next week, she wont tell me, they will just go.


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## TTI (30 Jan 2014)

My understanding is that it is up to the family law courts to decide on the custody and jurisdiction of the child. If she kidnaps them, once it's within a country the EU have an agreement you can log a kidnapping charge and they will be returned from that foreign country by the local police. But better to avoid it at all costs obviously. 

Are you Irish?
Is she Irish? 
Age of children?
Where is the visa application for?


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## NewEdition (30 Jan 2014)

I am Irish
she is british
they will go to south africa
kids under 10


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## NewEdition (30 Jan 2014)

There are family connections in SA that would make this possible.. they  could be on a plane tomorrow, i dont know.
i may not even ever find out where they go!
Once they are on a plane, they are gone


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## TTI (31 Jan 2014)

I suggest you get some proper legal advice, but here's what I've been able to find.

Both children were born in Ireland? Both with only Irish passports?

The children are habitually resident in Ireland, therefore the courts here have jurisdiction in relation to the children.

Here's details about international child abduction:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...r_children/international_child_abduction.html

Note the section on what to do if there are at risk.  Also South Africa are signed up to the Hague convention so they must respond legally to return the children in that case.

*

If it was me, and I have been considering this since last night, I would definitely take and keep the children's passports. She has given you plenty of probable cause that she has intentions of absconding with the children overseas and that you feel as their joint guardian and father that it is in the children's best interests that these things are clearly and legally sorted out before your children leave Ireland again. Thoughts?


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## TTI (31 Jan 2014)

More details here:
http://europa.eu/legislation_summar...al_cooperation_in_civil_matters/l33194_en.htm


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## Sunny (31 Jan 2014)

First of all, you need to calm down. From what I gather, you seem to have a decent enough relationship with your ex wife. She mentioned that she was thinking of moving abroad. It doesn't sound like she is planning to abduct the children in the dead of night. 

You really do need to get proper legal advice. You can go to the district or circuit court to prevent her removing the children so you do have rights. 

Before you go stealing passports or accusing her of planning child abduction, can you not have a conversation with her to get a better idea of what she is planning. If she is serious about moving abroad and you are set against it, then you can take steps to prevent it. Just bear in mind the consequences for your relationship if you can't reach agreement between yourselves.

Talk to a solicitor who can outline your options.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2014)

Neither parent can take the children out of the country without the permission of the other parent.


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## Ceist Beag (7 Feb 2014)

That's easy to say Purple but who checks whether a parent has permission (from the other parent) to bring their child out of the country or not! If a parent did leave with the child it might not be that easy to get them back after. This is a recent example of such a story.


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## TTI (7 Feb 2014)

Purple said:


> Neither parent can take the children out of the country without the permission of the other parent.



In some other EU countries, like Romania, you strictly can't travel with a child 15 or under without both parents or something like an official notarised letter from the other parent authorising. But in Ireland I've never heard of any one parent being challenged while travelling to another EU country.


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## Purple (7 Feb 2014)

Ceist Beag said:


> That's easy to say Purple but who checks whether a parent has permission (from the other parent) to bring their child out of the country or not! If a parent did leave with the child it might not be that easy to get them back after. This is a recent example of such a story.



I agree. I'm not sure how the law can be enforced.


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## Gemstone (7 Feb 2014)

This just in relation as to whether a single parent travelling with children are ever challenged .. both myself and my sister have both travelled with a child on our own and periodically have been stopped/queried at the passport control entering other countries and most recently on my way back in through irish passport control. We are all Irish holding Irish passports. I have also noticed other adult/child parties  being "queried".I dont think it is that unusual.


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## Bronte (10 Feb 2014)

Why would she want to go to South Africa, it's quite violent there.  Is a British citizen entitled to live there?


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## SparkRite (10 Feb 2014)

Bronte said:


> Why would she want to go to South Africa, it's quite violent there.  Is a British citizen entitled to live there?




As per post #8 Bronte, where the OP states:-



> There are family connections in SA........


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