# Child maintenance & disclosing income...



## uptherebels (8 Jan 2009)

Hi All,

Any help with this will be greatly received. Quick version: I was with a girl for a few weeks and finished as she was becoming more & more strange! Couple of weeks later she makes contact & says shes pregnant. I have had no proof of this and have no wish to see her as she really is off the wall crazy, I wont go into detail with the problems she caused me. 

Bottom line, on the off chance she is, if I have to go to court in the future about maintenance, what will I have to disclose? Obviously my earings & outgoings such as mortgage etc, but do I have to disclose my savings etc as well?

I would like to point out that if I am father I will pay maintenance no prob, but dont want to have to hand over excessive amounts


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## truthseeker (8 Jan 2009)

Other posters will no doubt tell you more detail on what you have to disclose financially but just wanted to mention that you should insist on DNA test before you agree to anything.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2009)

Any use?


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## uptherebels (8 Jan 2009)

Thanks ClubMan, I already looked at that, but it gave me no new info. Truthseeker, I would definitely have the test done.


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## truthseeker (8 Jan 2009)

Just out of interest what do you think would be a reasonable amount per month to pay?


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2009)

Any use?


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## uptherebels (8 Jan 2009)

Thanks Clubman, that would seem to include savings alright :-(. Truthseeker, I honestly have no idea. She is putting me through hell with harrasment at the moment, but doing it in a very clever way that the Gardai cannot prove, and is even claiming to be a victim of harrasment herself, from people out to get me!! You would not believe what is being done!! To answer your question, if it was to a normal person I woul not even go to court I would just offer say €400 pm as I have a mortgage bills etc, but to her i'd pay as little as possible.

I severly doubt she is anyway as I have had no proof such as doctors letter etc, and she apparently told someone who knows me that "She's pregnant but is in danger of losing it!"


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## truthseeker (8 Jan 2009)

uptherebels said:


> Thanks Clubman, that would seem to include savings alright :-(. Truthseeker, I honestly have no idea. She is putting me through hell with harrasment at the moment, but doing it in a very clever way that the Gardai cannot prove, and is even claiming to be a victim of harrasment herself, from people out to get me!! You would not believe what is being done!! To answer your question, if it was to a normal person I woul not even go to court I would just offer say €400 pm as I have a mortgage bills etc, but to her i'd pay as little as possible.
> 
> I severly doubt she is anyway as I have had no proof such as doctors letter etc, and she apparently told someone who knows me that "She's pregnant but is in danger of losing it!"


 

I hear ya. Sounds like its a nasty situation alright. The amount you state sounds reasonable actually, but something for you to remember is this - you say if it was a normal person youd offer that, but to her as little as possible. The money is not going to her. Its for the child (if indeed one exists) - I know it looks like youre giving it to the mother, but its for the childs upbringing so no matter how much of a headcase the mother is remember the child is the important person in it.

I am no expert in this area but just based on friends I know who receive maintenance 400pm seems to be a good 'norm'. The shame about going to court is that is costs more money - money that could go to the child instead of solicitors - so wait and see, she might accept that as an offer if she is pregnant and the child is yours.

In the meantime keep a record of communications from her (particularly texts, emails etc...) as it will be in your favour if you can prove that she has in fact been harassing you from the beginning.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I am no expert in this area but just based on friends I know who receive maintenance 400pm seems to be a good 'norm'.


Surely it depends on the circumstances and means of the parties involved? I doubt that extrapolating from specific cases to the general case is meaningful.


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## Susanna (8 Jan 2009)

They have an ad on channel 4 about child maintenance and  a child sitting on a bench with no coat,hat or gloves and no lunch....so sad, Please think about the child in all of this.


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## truthseeker (8 Jan 2009)

ClubMan said:


> Surely it depends on the circumstances and means of the parties involved? I doubt that extrapolating from specific cases to the general case is meaningful.


 
I agree - however, based on the maximum that district courts can award per week for the child it would seem to me that 400 per month is a reasonable sum to generalise on.

OP states he has earnings and savings - so he is not unemployed and penniless. But he also states he doesnt want to hand over excessive amounts - so he is not Branson either.


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## ClubMan (8 Jan 2009)

Susanna said:


> They have an ad on channel 4 about child maintenance and  a child sitting on a bench with no coat,hat or gloves and no lunch....so sad, Please think about the child in all of this.


I will - what's his name?


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## gaggi (8 Jan 2009)

hi, i  was reading all the mails and replies. if u are not certain, its ur baby, how could u be certain, she would spend the amount in baby's upbringing.
could be another constant monthly income for her. the only person to suffer would be the baby.


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## Bronte (9 Jan 2009)

I think you should wait until you know she actually is pregnant before asking hypothetical questions.  If the guards are involved and she is as unstable as you suggest (which begs the question why were you with her in the first place), I recommend you document everything.  And yes you will have to tell the court everything you are worth for them to decide on maintenance.   They will decide the amount based on the needs of the child and not on what your opinion is of how much you should give.


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## ClubMan (9 Jan 2009)

Bronte said:


> I think you should wait until you know she actually is pregnant before asking hypothetical questions.


Forewarned is forearmed. However nothing posted so far justifies the involvement of the _Gardaí _as far as I can see. If it is or becomes a case of harassment then that's a different matter.


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## Bronte (12 Jan 2009)

ClubMan said:


> Forewarned is forearmed. However nothing posted so far justifies the involvement of the _Gardaí _as far as I can see. If it is or becomes a case of harassment then that's a different matter.


 True enough to be forewarned is forarmed but he did mention the Gardai in post 7 so it must be quite serious.  There are some people out there who are mentally challenged and are clever at avoiding getting detected.  It happened to someone I know and it took a long time to end it.


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## uptherebels (12 Jan 2009)

"There are some people out there who are mentally challenged and are clever at avoiding getting detected. It happened to someone I know and it took a long time to end it."

Thats very true, let me paint u a brief picture:

Split with long term partner and met this other girl a while later. Seemed nice so started dating. After a while she said someone was textting her out of the blue warning her off me etc, then the texts started getting more personal & describing my movements & house layout etc. It was then I really began to be suspicious as some of things described only she had seen as I had changed house around a bit. She then came up with an old number for my ex saying she was told if she wanted to know who was behind the texts call that number. I gave her the red card & she  then rang my ex in work and asked were we back together etc and did she know anything about the texts. She then began saying to me that someone was threatening her as I owed a debt (I never had a debt in my life). 

Since then my life and that of my friends has been hell. My parents had to change their number due to hang up calls at all hours, my ex is being plagued in work with calls and my boss is even getting texts, all from "Someone I owe or she's gonna get it" 

I may not be describing it very clearly but everything happening points back to her. Its pure vindictiveness but very clever.


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## ClubMan (12 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Its pure vindictiveness but very clever.


So do what _truthseeker _suggested above and then you have some hard evidence to support your complaint to the _Gardaí _if this turns out to be a criminal matter.


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## uptherebels (12 Jan 2009)

I have done. I've been to Gardai numerous times but they say they can't prove anything, as she is claiming she's being harrassed as well. It all kicked off after I went to the Gardai originally & they called her to request she stop contacting me. 

She has set up e-mail addresses and mailed people who know me, got hold of my bosses number & text him (all off different numbers). The Gardai are no help to be honest.


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## ClubMan (12 Jan 2009)

uptherebels said:


> The Gardai are no help to be honest.


If you keep records of all allegedly nuisance/harassment communications then presumably they could trace the calls/emails/txts if deemed necessary?


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## uptherebels (12 Jan 2009)

Apparently not because the mobile numbers are un-registered and she's using an IP blocker when sending e-mails. As far as the Gardai are concerned it will "all go away eventually", and all I'm giving them is heresay!


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## Shivers26 (13 Jan 2009)

I would definitely want to clarify if she is pregnant because tbh she sounds like a major attention seeker and nothing gets attention like a pregnancy and a 'miscarriage'.

If she does turn out to be pregnant, insist on a DNA test. Then maintenance is calculated based on your income and outgoings (and also hers). Maintenance is paid for the child not the mother. There is a good spreadsheet on solo.ie (maintenance calculator on left hand side) this will give you plenty of heading as to what is included as income and outgoings. 

I know a bit more specific to maintenance, going to court etc.... feel free to PM. Document anything classed as harassing behaviour to yourself, your friends or your colleagues. Keep any text messages, emails etc

Lastly, good luck with everything


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## Bronte (14 Jan 2009)

uptherebels said:


> Apparently not because the mobile numbers are un-registered and she's using an IP blocker when sending e-mails. As far as the Gardai are concerned it will "all go away eventually", and all I'm giving them is heresay!


I suggest you post another thread in the technology section of AAM on how you can trace these calls.  There must be a way.  Is there a way you could trap her.  The Gardai might have some suggestions, I would persist with them in writing.  Document all that has happened (a log of calls and to who etc) and ask them to act.


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## tink (14 Jan 2009)

She sounds unhinged, change your email address and mail all your friends the new one and change all your numbers. If Guards aren't going to do anything you will have to inconvenience yourself but think about the silence it will bring !!!!


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## uptherebels (15 Jan 2009)

All done since November, plus parents had to change house phone & go ex-directory. Problem is she is ringing the girl I was with befor her in work, and screaming at her staff, and another girl I know is getting e-mail from a bogus address. Funny thing is the girl getting e-mails asked me to pass on a CV to tis girl so how else would anyone get her address. She is also texting my boss from various numbers pretending to be someone looking for me about a drugs debt!! She even scratched my initials into her car & reported it to Gardai. She is being very clever and is double bluffing at every point.  I am actually in hell at the moment, have lost interest in everything, lost 2 st weight and just want to stay in bed all day.


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## maz69 (19 Jan 2009)

what to pay............my ex hubby is from the uk and we have 3 kids.

new hubby is also paying for 2 kids in the uk so we are on both ends of the court maintenance system.

ex earns (or said he did!) £2,300 net a month.

he was ordered to pay E825 per month.  e63 per child per week. on 2300 sterling per month.

I found the court to be quite informal and as he is a police chief inspector his pay details are easily available on the internet, where is clearly states he earns £500 more than he declared.

 however the Judge did not insist on seeing any p60/payslip and took his word for it.

ex later brought me back to court trying to reduce maintenance, this time I spoke up and asked judge to see his payslips, which he in turn did and thus proved he had lied the first time around, but this situation ONLY arose as his pay details were in the public domain.

courts took a means statment from me, which included all of my income/child benefits etc and listed every child expense and living expense I did not have to prove the expenses stated even though I had diligently prepared everything and had gone to court with receipts fr everything

I wasnt very happy with e63 per child per week, but with the adverse exchange rate I now feel sorry for my ex in that he is paying an inflated amount.
 I would strongly advise you take into the court a calculator, pen/paper etc and not be rushed. 

stand your ground and query absolutley anything you arent happy with, ask for proof if you arent happy with the cost of nappies/food clothes etc.

You can always apply for a re hearing in the higher court up if u arent happy. you have 14 days to do so.

re your savings neither my ex nor myself had to produce bank statments mortgage statements p60s etc........we just stood on oath and declared the answer to any q's we were asked by each other and also the judge.

they will not investigate your savings..........nor delve into your bank accounts , if anything both my ex and myself went to court because neither of us could agree anymore what was a fair amount, yet we both left the court room feeling the the judge hadnt really given the case his full attention.

the uk child support website has a calculator on it for your info, ireland doesnt differ too much in the amounts paid out.

hope that helps

marie


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## uptherebels (20 Jan 2009)

Thanks Marie. It's all irrelevant now though as her lies have caught up with her. She actually BOUGHT urine from a pregnant fellow worker to pass a test then mouthed all over about me not caring and that I deal drugs etc, went to police and said I was harrassing her and that people were after her for my drugs debts. HOWEVER, she then had a miscarriage!!!! and went out of work. Police rang me last night and are at last starting to take it seriously. I put them in contact with her former boss who I never met but spoke to on the phone, who informs me she did all this a few years ago to another guy who dumped her, and she is prepared to talk to the police for me! At last I'm getting somewhere!


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## truthseeker (20 Jan 2009)

uptherebels said:


> Thanks Marie. It's all irrelevant now though as her lies have caught up with her. She actually BOUGHT urine from a pregnant fellow worker to pass a test then mouthed all over about me not caring and that I deal drugs etc, went to police and said I was harrassing her and that people were after her for my drugs debts. HOWEVER, she then had a miscarriage!!!! and went out of work. Police rang me last night and are at last starting to take it seriously. I put them in contact with her former boss who I never met but spoke to on the phone, who informs me she did all this a few years ago to another guy who dumped her, and she is prepared to talk to the police for me! At last I'm getting somewhere!


 
She BOUGHT urine from a pregnant women? She sounds mentally unhinged. (pregnant woman must have questionable morals as well to be selling her bodily fluids like that).
Im sorry to hear of all the troubles she has caused you, now at least the lies are in the open and you can get on with your life.


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## uptherebels (20 Jan 2009)

Thanks Trutseeker. You wouldn't see it in a film plot!


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## truthseeker (20 Jan 2009)

Now that all the lies are out in the open Im sure its tempting to just move on and be glad that that part of your life is over, but I think its well worth persuing a harrassment case against her as it may prevent her from doing the same thing to someone else - if the previous BF had persued a case maybe you wouldnt be in the position she put you in.

I wonder if she is in fact insane (in one way or another) or simply a nasty person who is clever (to a degree) at not getting caught out.

Id be tending on the side of her being someone with mental problems.

Dont let it put you off the dating scene though - that kind of craziness is not normal!!!

As regards your earlier post stating you had lost weight and had no interest in anything, you need to address that as well to ensure your general health doesnt suffer an impact from all the stress youve been under. So whatever happens about the girl, dont forget to look after yourself and speak to your GP if you need to re the stress you have experienced.


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## sandrat (20 Jan 2009)

the moral of the story is....use condoms


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## truthseeker (20 Jan 2009)

sandrat said:


> the moral of the story is....use condoms


 
If the girl in question was insane enough to buy urine from a pregnant woman Im sure she would have no problem telling OP that they must have had condom failure - it happens.


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## Bronte (20 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> If the girl in question was insane enough to buy urine from a pregnant woman Im sure she would have no problem telling OP that they must have had condom failure - it happens.


Even so Sandrat's advice is very good advice.  OP I'm glad this sorry tale is coming to an end and I agree with Truthseeker that you pursue it to the end so that another man doesn't end up in the same situation.


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## truthseeker (20 Jan 2009)

Bronte said:


> Even so Sandrat's advice is very good advice.


 
Absolutely - did not intend my last post to advocate not using them!


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## sandrat (20 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> If the girl in question was insane enough to buy urine from a pregnant woman Im sure she would have no problem telling OP that they must have had condom failure - it happens.


 
She sounds like the type of crazy that would pretend to be on the pill too!


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## uptherebels (20 Jan 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Now that all the lies are out in the open Im sure its tempting to just move on and be glad that that part of your life is over, but I think its well worth persuing a harrassment case against her as it may prevent her from doing the same thing to someone else - if the previous BF had persued a case maybe you wouldnt be in the position she put you in.
> 
> I wonder if she is in fact insane (in one way or another) or simply a nasty person who is clever (to a degree) at not getting caught out.
> 
> ...


 


I do intend to persue it. My good name and reputation has been slandered, my friends have been threatened by her using various e-mail addresses and texts, she even sent an e-mail to the health board naming a nurse friend of mine as someone who supplies drugs to bodybuilders!! I believe she is mentally ill, but also very nasty, manipulative and clever, and doesn't care who she hurts. 

I intend to get payback for all we have been through for the past 2 months, not in a monetary or vengeful sense but so that at least it is on record if she does anything in the future. 

Funny thing is apparently her family believe her that I am behind all this!! Just spoke to her former boss again there, as I told her the police may be contacting her. Turns out she also scraped a guys initials into the car while working there, and that exactly what she did again this time then went to the police about it. 

I'd say if nothing else she'll be done for wasting police time.


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## truthseeker (20 Jan 2009)

Best of luck with it - hopefully she will think twice about this crazy behaviour in the future.


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## homeowner (21 Jan 2009)

uptherebels said:


> she then had a miscarriage!!!! and went out of work.



Did she give a doctor's note to HR to back up her claims that she had a miscarraige? Can the manager that you have been talking to follow up with this note and check that there is actually a doctor at the address on her note (if she handed one in).  If her manager is on your side this could give them ammunition to discipline her in work or fire her.  

I dont think you or your friends should reply to any emails or texts she sends, if you ignore her completely (while still making copies of very thing and making note of times etc...) she might get fed up and stop.  She could be feeding off your reaction.

I feel a bit sorry for her, she clearly has major problems.


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## uptherebels (21 Jan 2009)

I have spoken to her employer and have been phoned by both her area manager & the MD of the company. We never replied to anything but that seemed to make her worse, as she kept pushing the stakes higher to get a reaction.

She prob has mental problems but at the same time deserves anything she gets for behaving like that. I was all well thought out & planned.


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## uptherebels (3 Mar 2009)

Update... The Gardai phoned me to tell me they have tracked down the girl she bought the urine from, and hope to meet her. The problem is this girl is Polish and afraid of the other girl. Rumor has it she has already got to the Polish Girl, but we'll see. 
The Guards say they have to question me becasuse of the accusations made against me, but it will be done at my conveience. In fairness to the Guard, he more or less stated he knew I was telling the truth, but he says this girl is still on to him about me harassing her. I haven't spoken to her since Mid November!!

She is still mouthing off about me all over the place. And still maintains she was pregnant, even though the world & it's mother know the thruth! I have spoken to my solicitor & we are ready to begin civil action once the garda investigation is over.


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