# Power off or leave on Standby



## Samson77 (25 Oct 2011)

Ok..
I live with a guy who powers off everything in the hosue going to bed.
Including the toaster and kettle!!

It is my theory that it uses more electricity to power up the 36" Plasma HD TV and the UPC box, twice a day sometimes, than it does to leave them on standby between the hours of 12.30am and 18.00pm.

Would anyone have any ideas/proof/suggestions to confirm or deny my theory?

Many thanks

K


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## ClubMan (25 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> Would anyone have any ideas/proof/suggestions to confirm or deny my theory?


Get one of these (link is just an example - shop around) and test the two scenarios you outline?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Energenie-El...ctronics_PowerAdaptors_SM&hash=item4aa988ded4


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## chrisboy (25 Oct 2011)

Either way, his is a safer way of doing things. If its plugged out it wont go on fire!


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## Samson77 (25 Oct 2011)

*Stand by or Off*

If it's plugged in it won't go on fire either!
If the plug or socket is faulty there's a chance it may go on fire.


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## Shane007 (25 Oct 2011)

The programme Mythbusters on Discovery channel carried out that exact test to see if the myth to leave everything on is cheaper over switching off and on again, and the result was "Myth Busted". It was more expensive to leave on!

There was no more power used when switching on than there is when it is on, therefore it is cheaper to switch off.


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## STEINER (25 Oct 2011)

a friend confirmed to me that a Fire Brigade officer visited his office workplace for a safety meeting and stressed the importance of unplugging appliances at night, it wasn't sufficient to just turn switches off. At home I always unplug appliances before bed, apart from the fridge.  I wouldn't expect switching on an appliance to use more power than being on standby all the time.  Leaving any appliance on standby is just a waste of electricity.


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## bullworth (25 Oct 2011)

STEINER said:


> At home I always unplug appliances before bed, apart from the fridge.



I wonder why we trust our fridges but trust nothing else. I always leave mine on when I go abroad on holiday etc however I always unplug everything else.


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## Gekko (25 Oct 2011)

I flick the switches on the sockets off but leave "turned off" appliances plugged in...is that enough (from a fire prevention perspective)?


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## SparkRite (25 Oct 2011)

Gekko said:


> I flick the switches on the sockets off but leave "turned off" appliances plugged in...is that enough (from a fire prevention perspective)?



The short answer is "YES"


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## chrisboy (25 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> If it's plugged in it won't go on fire either!
> If the plug or socket is faulty there's a chance it may go on fire.




Wrong im afraid,half of all domestic fires are caused by cooking, next up is electrical appliances.. As i said, they wont go on fire if they're plugged out. They can if they're plugged in..


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## NorfBank (25 Oct 2011)

bullworth said:


> I wonder why we trust our fridges but trust nothing else. I always leave mine on when I go abroad on holiday etc however I always unplug everything else.



I don't think it's trust.

It's a fridge. It has food in it and maybe a freezer. Turn it off and you return to a puddle on your floor. 

Turning off other applicances won't have such an affect.


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## Sue Ellen (25 Oct 2011)

Isn't it better to plug out also from a surge protection point of view.


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## lowCO2design (25 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> Ok..
> I live with a guy who powers off everything in the hosue going to bed.
> Including the toaster and kettle!!
> 
> ...


+1 with Clubman
I would recommend you buy him one of these for xmas
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Owl-Cm119-W...CLS0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319570337&sr=8-1


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## burmo (25 Oct 2011)

Hi,

It's absolutely more expensive to leave them running than the initial startup 'surge'. These devices are not like inductive motors, etc. that have large starting currents as they spin up - and that is also a myth that people in workshops say so they don't have to turn off the saws when they're walking about.

Surge current for devices such as the UPC box and TVs are maybe 1.5x of nominal running wattage for much less than 0.5 seconds. 

Hope this helps,
Burmo (Electronic Engineer)


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## Gekko (25 Oct 2011)

I've heard/read that while on "standby" appliances such as TVs use approximately 20% of the electricity that they use when "on".

Is that accurate?


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## bullworth (25 Oct 2011)

NorfBank said:


> I don't think it's trust.
> 
> It's a fridge. It has food in it and maybe a freezer. Turn it off and you return to a puddle on your floor.
> 
> Turning off other applicances won't have such an affect.




I know I'd rather have an easily mopped up puddle than a fire so how can it not be trust ? If you don't worry about leaving a fridge plugged in and turned on unattended when you go away on holidays then is this lack of worry sensible ?


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## newirishman (25 Oct 2011)

not sure why posters here are so worried about electric stuff catching fire just because it is plugged in - it is very unlikely to happen if the device itself is turned off.

@gekko: the 20% figure is rubbish, plugged out of thin air. The manual of your TV should have the standby wattage somewhere. I have checked my electric devices and they generally use less in standby than what's in the handbook.

I leave some things on standby (convenience more than anything) as I know how "much" it costs me, but also have switched sockets throughout and eg turn off sockets with the phone chargers etc when not in use, and turn off everything apart from fridge and heating system when going away for more than a few days - but to safe on the energy not because i am worried about fires.


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## huskerdu (26 Oct 2011)

Gekko said:


> I've heard/read that while on "standby" appliances such as TVs use approximately 20% of the electricity that they use when "on".
> 
> Is that accurate?



No.
It used to be true on older TVs, and the numbers ar still bandied around, but these days the standby current is minimal. I don't have figures to hand, but its more like 1-3% than 20%.


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2011)

lowCO2design said:


> +1 with Clubman
> I would recommend you buy him one of these for xmas
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Owl-Cm119-W...CLS0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319570337&sr=8-1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power#Estimating_standby_power

Also - maybe of general interest for some empirical/indicative analysis:

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


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## Billo (26 Oct 2011)

Is there a danger that phone chargers would overheat and catch fire if left plugged in for a longish period of time after use. I always tell my children (without much success ) to plug them out because of this.


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## onq (26 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> Ok..
> I live with a guy who powers off everything in the hosue going to bed.
> Including the toaster and kettle!!
> 
> ...



You may be confusing the old rule-of-thumb about power used by the old "starters" on flourescent lights - vs - the relatively light usage of the lights when in use.

I think these have been improved and there is no study I am aware of that shows plug-in appliances use enormous power on start-up.

Turning everything off when not needed sounds like good  advice.


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## Samson77 (26 Oct 2011)

Firstly thank you all for your contributions.

The main reason the housemate plugs appliances out is energy savings.
But according to ESB appliance calculator a 42" plasma TV on *standby* 24 hours a day 7 days a week will cost €3.88 per 2 months, €1.94 a month!
Wattage in use: 350
Wattage on standby: 18
I'm thinking i'll gladly pay an extra 4 euro a month to avoid bending around the back of the TV every day to plug it in. Physios aint cheap in this country!

On a seperate note i'd always try to plug out laptop or mobile chargers as they do have tendancy to over heat!


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2011)

Billo said:


> Is there a danger that phone chargers would  overheat and catch fire if left plugged in for a longish period of time  after use. I always tell my children (without much success ) to plug  them out because of this.



There's probably some risk but I would imagine that it would normally be extremely small. Especially when there is no load (phone being charged) attached to the charger. 

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/charger/ 


But if it's easy to switch off/unplug things when they are not in use then probably no harm in doing so. 

By the way my _TV _has no "off" switch - it only goes into standby so these days I leave it (and many other devices) plugged in and on standby where there is no "master" off option and plugging out is not convenient. Another habit of a lifetime gone by the wayside...


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## Leo (26 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> But according to ESB appliance calculator a 42" plasma TV on *standby* 24 hours a day 7 days a week will cost €3.88 per 2 months, €1.94 a month!
> Wattage in use: 350
> Wattage on standby: 18


 
That's way off the mark. A plasma of that size will typically use ~0.5W in standby. It will take 2000 hours on standby to use a single unit. So being on standby 24 hours 7 days a week example will set you back less than 7c a month. 
Leo


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## SparkRite (26 Oct 2011)

Leo said:


> That's way off the mark. A plasma of that size will typically use ~0.5W in standby. It will take 2000 hours on standby to use a single unit. So being on standby 24 hours 7 days a week example will set you back less than 7c a month.
> Leo



Thats a lot closer to the mark, Leo.


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## Samson77 (26 Oct 2011)

Thanks Leo
That's better again. Should i be able to calculate the wattage usage from the information on the back of the TV or from the manual?
I'd rather not have to buy a plug in monitor!!

Form a power saving point of view i see very little point in plugging out 'stand-by' appliances at all.
And it's debatable if these appliances are a fire hazard.
I've heard horror stories of bad wiring/loose plugs causing fires but i've never heard of an appliance spontaneously combusting because it was on standby!!


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## Leo (26 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> Should i be able to calculate the wattage usage from the information on the back of the TV or from the manual?


 
Yes, the manual should detail the normal use and standby power requirements. Both figures will be the maximums, actual usage is likely to be lower still.



Samson77 said:


> Form a power saving point of view i see very little point in plugging out 'stand-by' appliances at all.


 
For the individual, the savings are negligible. It's only when you start looking at a national scale you can see any significance.



Samson77 said:


> And it's debatable if these appliances are a fire hazard. I've heard horror stories of bad wiring/loose plugs causing fires but i've never heard of an appliance spontaneously combusting because it was on standby!!


 
True, vast majority of electrical house fires are down to wiring issues, overloaded light fittings or sockets, or overloaded/damaged extention cords. There is a recall in place for certain Sony Bravia TV models due to overheating, but no reports of any damage beyond that done to the set itself.
Leo


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## SparkRite (26 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> Thanks Leo
> That's better again. Should i be able to calculate the wattage usage from the information on the back of the TV or from the manual?
> I'd rather not have to buy a plug in monitor!!



Unless its quoted, (I'm assuming you are referring to standby power) either on the device itself or in the manual you generally cannot "work it out" from other data that is usually provided.


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## selfassessed (26 Oct 2011)

TVs aside, some set top boxes are notorious for using almost the same power in standby that they do when they are on.  Google for "stb standby".


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2011)

selfassessed said:


> TVs aside, some set top boxes are notorious for using almost the same power in standby that they do when they are on.  Google for "stb standby".


If they have a _DVR/PVR _facility then you don't have much option but to leave them on standby when recording stuff as a matter of course...


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## Samson77 (27 Oct 2011)

And can anyone tell me the benefits of plugging out a toaster, kettle and a switched off lamp in the corner of the sitting room, every night, from a power saving point of view?
Or is he purposefully trying to wind me up?!?!


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## WindUp (27 Oct 2011)

be grateful that he doesnt plug out the washing machine, Dryer, etc

http://www.green-energy-efficient-homes.com/waste-electricity.html


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## ClubMan (27 Oct 2011)

Samson77 said:


> And can anyone tell me the benefits of plugging out a toaster, kettle and a switched off lamp in the corner of the sitting room, every night, from a power saving point of view?
> Or is he purposefully trying to wind me up?!?!


From a power saving point of view almost certainly none. From a (fire) safety point of view maybe some.


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## roker (27 Oct 2011)

I have some of them remote controlled sockets that I switch of on a night. There is usually 3 socket supplied with 1 remote.
Do you switch your modem/router off on a night? Some laptops have had a history of recall due to the batteries overheating


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## eirman (5 Nov 2011)

This is the type of gadget you are looking for ### Can't post the url as I haven't made 15 posts. What a nuisance. Been signed up here for many years, but I'm mostly a lurker!   Lets try this ....  theowlireland dot com  Then click on ... Power Saver Strips


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## eirman (5 Nov 2011)

Could someone do a proper link to the above ..... (3 more posts to go)

*[broken link removed]*


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## eirman (5 Nov 2011)

A further thought ...... Plugging plugtops (the correct term) in and out of sockets, thousands of times will very gradually wear them out. Better to just switch them off at the switched sockets.


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## pudds (5 Nov 2011)

eirman said:


> A further thought ...... Plugging plugtops (the correct term) in and out of sockets, thousands of times will very gradually wear them out. Better to just switch them off at the switched sockets.



I used to think that but over the years have had no end of problems with socket switches not working or only half working i.e. hit and miss like.


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