# Frontier Working and where to sign on?



## shopgirl (6 Mar 2009)

Does anyone know if someone who lives in Northern Ireland but who worked and paid tax in the Republic of Ireland can claim any type of benefit here, (they have recently lost their job)  Because they didn't pay tax in N.I. they are not entitled to any benefits there. 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks


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## samanthajane (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

thats a very good question in the next few weeks i'm going to be living in the north and working in the south and this never crossed my mind. I moved from dublin to ireland last june as i'm able to claim in england even though i haven't paid taxes in england for over 10 years. I would ring social welfare in the south and ask them since you have been paying your taxes are you entitled to claim, i bet they say no and try and get you to claim in N.I. Someone has to give you something, you cant live off fresh air.


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## samanthajane (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

i found a great website for you to look at it's www.borderpeople.info/ still checking through it myself but they seem to have an answer for everything


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## samanthajane (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

ok found what you needed. There are 2 things you can do.

1)In other words, an Irish resident who is made redundant from their job in Northern Ireland must claim unemployment benefits from their country of residence, which in this case is the Republic of Ireland. Similarly a Northern resident working in the Republic Of Ireland must claim their unemployment benefits from Northern Ireland. In order to satisfy the social insurance conditions for contribution based unemployment benefits workers can combine contributions paid in any EU country in order to qualify. This is sometimes referred to as aggregation. Therefore, a frontier worker can combine contributions paid in Northern Ireland in order to qualify for Jobseeker’s benefit in the Republic of Ireland.

2) 
Workers who are intermittently unemployed for short periods of time should claim unemployment benefits from the country in which they were last employed. Therefore, if a worker resident in Northern Ireland is temporarily laid off from their job in the Republic of Ireland, but not made redundant, they should claim unemployment benefits from the South.

So depending on weather you are going to be unemployed or a "short period of time" ( how your meant to know this i dont know ) or not either way you can claim for something somewhere. 

I just noticed that it says "but not made redundant" not sure how you lost your job so the 2nd 1 might not be an option.


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## shopgirl (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

Thanks for all the info.  Just to clarify, it's not for me but for someone who works in the construction industry, the company he was working with just didn't have any work on so everyone in the company has lost their job.  Unfortunately he was only with the company for 18 months so as far as I am aware, he didn't receive any redundancy payment.


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## GenieMac (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

My understanding is that if you work in ROI and reside in N Ire and you become fully unemployed you must register with and apply for benefit in your country of residence  - in this case in N Ire.  
HOWEVER the exception to this is if you can prove that you have "closer ties" with ROI then you can claim from here.

I am in the process of ascertaining what "closer ties" mean.  If anyone can help please let me know!


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## Welfarite (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

There is no such thing as a 'closer ties' clause.

To clear up any confusion, what is being described by OP is a separate class of workers called `frontier workers'. A frontier worker is defined as any employed or self-employed person who works in the territory of a EU Member State and lives in the territory of another Member State to which s/he returns as a rule *daily or at least once a week.*
If such a worker becomes partially unemployed (e.g. part-time workers), the state in which that person is normally employed is responsible for paying jobseeker's benefit. However, where a frontier worker becomes fully unemployed, the state in which s/he is resident will be responsible for paying the benefit.
A frontier worker who resides in Ireland does not require any Irish contribution to qualify under Irish legislation if s/he becomes fully unemployed.


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## GenieMac (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*

I'm confused !! I have been in contact with my social welfare office and they have told me that because I work in ROI and reside and return daily to N. Ireland - if I am made full time unemployed from my job in ROI I should claim my unemployment benefits from N. Ireland as this is my place of residence.  However, if  I have "closer ties" to ROI than to N. Ireland I may be entitled to collect my unemployment benefit from ROI as opposed to N. Ireland. I have checked the social welfare booklet and the "closer ties" exception is stated in this???


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## Welfarite (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*



GenieMac said:


> I have checked the social welfare booklet and the "closer ties" exception is stated in this???



What's the name of that booklet? Can you quote the exact paragraph from it?


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## Welfarite (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: Worked in rep of ireland but resides in northern ireland*



GenieMac said:


> However, if I have "closer ties" to ROI than to N. Ireland I may be entitled to collect my unemployment benefit from ROI as opposed to N. Ireland.


 

Did the local office tell you this adn if so why did they say 'may' instead of 'will'?


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## GenieMac (9 Apr 2009)

Sorry for the delay in replying to your queries - 

Firstly the name of the book is Your Social Security Rights in Ireland - a guide for EU citizens and it comes from the Depart of Social and Family Affairs. Chapter 7 deals with unemployment benefits for frontier workers - the paragraph reads (and I quote directly)
_"If you become fully unemployed, you must register with and apply for benefit from the employment services in the country where you live. *The only exception to this is if you can show that you have closer ties with the country where you were last employed"*_

In answer to your second query - the lady in the welfare office said "may" because prior to my query re the "closer ties execption" this had never been raised at that welfare office before, I believe she has escalated this query to another welfare office who in turn has had to escalate the query to a Dublin office! i.e she herself could not ascertain what qualified "closer ties" and therefore could not tell me whether I would be entitled to benefit from ROI

Thus the reason why I originally posted on this website hoping that someone else could help.


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## Welfarite (16 Apr 2009)

Good one, GenieMac, sounds like you'ver raised a hornet's nest! Let us know what the outcome is!


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## GenieMac (27 May 2009)

Just to update on my query re signing on in South when resident of the north - Indeed you are right Welfarite it seems I have raised a hornets nest and the "people that be" don't seem to be too happy about it.  After months of chasing the welfare office to give me a definitive answer on what they mean by "closer ties" they have admitted that they themselves have no idea!!!! They have admitted that they were unaware of this until I spoke to them and have never had anyone query it.   They now want me to contact some EU section in Dublin I reckon I'll just be met by the same obstacles and endless phone calls chasing my query. 

But I urge anyone out there who is made redundant and has worked and paid taxes in S Ireland but resides in N Ireland to query their entitlement to sign in the South where benefit are obviously much better.


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## cassmrc (21 Oct 2009)

A Frontier Worker is one who is resident in Republic and Employed in the North. or vice versa.
If they are on short term notice ie 3 day week, then they are entitled to claim benefit in the state they were emplyed.
If they are unemplyed they claim benefit in the State they are Resident.
Frontier Workers living in the Republic employed in the North are entitled to Medical Cards.
Does anyone know of any other entitlements they are entitled to?


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