# Primary school teaching as a career change



## gianni (23 Jan 2008)

I am considering a career change into primary school teaching. I'm no spring chicken - I've a primary degree, a postgraduate degree and 10 years+ working experience. But I still have 30+ years of working years in me and I've no real desire to stay doing what I am currently doing! It's slowly dawning on me that I should be considering other options if I want to improve my/my family's lifestyle.

I have taught children before but not in an Irish primary school. It was something that I enjoyed and I think that it might be an option for a career change. I plan on researching this thoroughly, including shadowing a teacher on site for a few days, but at this stage I'm hoping to pick your collective brains.

There seem to be a lot of 'primary school teaching' myths out there. Are there any primary school teachers here who can comment on the following ?

1) there are jobs for primary school teachers in Ireland - our growing population is resulting in more teachers being required. Most qualified teachers  can secure employment with relative ease.

2) temporary jobs are more prevalent to permanent ones (and temporary jobs don't have the same rights/entitlements)

3) males are more likely to secure permanent positions (how can this be done without breaking all equality laws?)

4) there is fierce competition for permanent positions in non-urban areas. 

5) all teachers must start at the first point on the scale but there are allowances for extra qualifications (such as BA's, MA's, PhD's)

6) the post graduate teaching courses (St Pats, Mary I etc) are extremely competitive and places are very difficult to secure

7) the Hibernia online option is easier to get a place on but the qualification might not be viewed as highly by some in the sector

8) the UK colleges are a good alternative but the 'conversion' requirements (Irish language being the obvious one) nearly negate any benefits gained from going this route

Finally on the off-chance that someone here has already done a career change to primary school teaching I'd love to hear how your experience went.

Quite a lengthy list above, if there are any teachers out there who would be in a position to comment, I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts..

many thanks

-g


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## DrMoriarty (23 Jan 2008)

Some of these earlier posts may be of interest:

Advice on best way to become a Primary School Teacher?
How can I become a teacher after my business degree? 
Pimary School Subbing (_sic_)
Primary teaching requirements 
Primary school teaching 
primary school teaching -are there jobs?

And posters — no calling out of turn, _please_? We'll get to everybody...


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## A_b (23 Jan 2008)

educationposts.ie is also a good website to look at. Reason hibernia is easier to get place on is because it has more places available. do not be under any illusion that it is easier


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## sully (24 Jan 2008)

I dont Know where all the jobs are going to be in teaching in a few years time as at the moment it seems to be difficult to get jobs in this.

Take for eg hibernia 560 grads a year, Mary I 400 Grads and approx 120 Postgrads qualifying per year,
Then there is St pats and Marino and other smaller colleges for primary teachers so in total about 1500 Primary teachers qualifying every year. 

Currently there are a lot of roles for Language support teachers but that might dry up in the next couple of years if the economy changes and Immigration lessens and teachers in these roles will either be reassigned in their schools or on a panel.

Most hibernia qualified teachers will get work in dublin but down the country they will need other qualities ie play a musical instrument or be good at sport/Drama/Art/Languages etc before they are hired.( these are always a plus anyway for any teacher to get employment). 

Although class sizes are still quite large in most schools and the population is increasing. I think the way forward will be more like the secondary teaching in that they will be qualified terachers for all subbing roles and part time teaching roles and hence the reason of training so many graduates.

Hibernai grads are not as well regarded as its an online education and you wouldn't get many professions that would even allow online courses for training. I can't imagine any online medical courses coming online in the next few years and even if they did i would still rather use a doctor that went and got onhand training!! but that just my opinion. I don't know what the general consensus is. on the other hand postgrads are older and hopefully wiser ;-)


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## qweqwerty123 (27 Jan 2008)

Recent article in Irish times (you havent a CLUE what you are talking about Sully)

Louise Holden 

When Hibernia College got the Government's seal of approval for its online teacher-training courses many were suspicious. There are now more than 1,000 teachers who did their training online. So has the venture affected the quality of teaching or is the brave new world here? 

When Hibernia College launched its online primary teacher-training program three years ago it was met by strident opposition from powerful quarters. The colleges of education claimed that Hibernia represented an attack on the professional status of teachers and a threat to the well-being of primary schoolchildren. Some 800 student teachers marched to protest against the decision to approve the new online course, claiming that the accreditation process was not independent, and that the move represented the sell-out of their profession. The INTO regarded the new privately-run course as a prelude to cutbacks in the State teacher-training system. 

Three years on, Hibernia has just celebrated the graduation of its second crop of qualified primary teachers. Despite opposition from all the major professional stakeholders in primary education, there are now over one thousand Hibernia-trained primary teachers in the system. There have been no complaints from principals, teachers, students or parents about their level of professionalism. The widely demanded independent review of Hibernia's online course has not taken place, although the newly established Teaching Council has plans to review all teacher education programmes in Ireland in the near future. In the meantime, aspirant teachers are voting with their feet, and applications for Hibernia's online course are growing exponentially. 

"In our first year of operation over 90 per cent of our applications came from unqualified teachers already working in the primary school system," says Hibernia president Sean Rowland. "At that time, the number of unqualified teachers in Irish schools was in the thousands. Now, we have applicants from a wide cross section of backgrounds - we receive dozens of applications every day." Rowland, a former teacher himself, took the attacks of three years ago on the chin and pressed ahead with enrolment despite some rather vicious accusations of a profit-motivated move to provide "yellow pack" training for teachers. He says that the course was underestimated and misunderstood by many critics at the time. 

"The course uses a mixture of online content, live tutorials and face-to-face classes, with less than half of all classes conducted online. At the time, critics said it was impossible to deliver critical aspects of teacher training such as PE, the Gaeltacht module and practical teaching over the internet. Of course they were right, but our course has always included the same number of class contact hours as any traditional course as well as an on-site PE training module at Easter, a one-month Gaeltacht module in the summer and fortnightly face-to-face tuition time for other sections of the primary curriculum which are not deliverable online. That was always the case." 

The difference, according to Rowland, is that students who are already working, as the majority of Hibernia trainees are, can do half of their course work from home and the other half in education centres convenient to where they live and work, rather than having to give up their jobs and move to a college of education locale. This has opened up the option of teacher training to a much wider population of students, says Rowland, not least those who are already teaching, but without a qualification. One of the course graduates was acting principal in a national school at the time of application. 

Many others are coming from banking, from IT and from working in the home - the course is popular options for graduates who have had to give up work to raise children, as much of the face-to-face tuition takes place on weekends. 

At €6,600 for 18 months' tuition, the course does not come cheap. At the time of its establishment, some critics accused the private college of offering a training option that excluded the less well off. However, as a part-time postgraduate course the programme would never have been part of the free fees scheme anyway, even if it had been offered through a State training college. Part-time learners are discriminated against in all sectors of education, not just teacher training. 

At this point, however, Rowland feels that the college is earning its stripes and should be welcomed by the educational fraternity. "We've talked the talk for many years about becoming an e-learning hub. There was massive Government investment in Media Lab Europe, which is now closed. The bottom line is that we are doing it. We came into profit a year and a half earlier than planned, and that's without the capitation fees that the colleges of education receive from the Government. We need to look at integrating Hibernia more into the mainstream." 

John Carr, president of the INTO, says that the INTO has always rejected the "yellow pack" tag for any student teacher on the Hibernia course. 

"The INTO demanded that the Department of Education and Science commission a high level evaluation of the Hibernia Course. This did not happen," says Carr. "The union sought assurances that the Department of Education and Science would apply the same standards of inspection that apply to other courses to the Hibernia course. The INTO is satisfied that this has been done properly. Since the establishment of the Hibernia course, the newly formed Teaching Council has been given the responsibility of ensuring the highest standards of teacher education in all colleges. The INTO will insist that the council ensures that the high standards of teacher preparation in Ireland are maintained. It has been INTO policy for many years that there should be alternative routes into primary teaching without sacrificing the evident quality of teacher education."


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## Haille (28 Jan 2008)

Do not know if I will be of much help.I am an ex teacher who has decided to take a career change from primary teaching after 27 years, spent 20 years teaching principal. My advice would be to try securing a number of hours as a SNA [special needs assistant.]It would give you a day to day insight of classroom teaching.You would also get the chance to talk to staff members on the many roles teachers are expected to perform nowadays. Its all very fine discussing the merits of B.Ed/ Post Grad/Hib courses to get into teaching but unfortunately they do not educate one completely in coping with many issues on the ground. I am not trying to discourage you but you first of all need to know is this the job I want to do.
     What is your primary and post grad qualifications?  Primary teaching can be very rewarding you have so many subject changes many of which can be integrated unlike 2nd. level where one is confined to a small number of subject areas.You often have the same group of children especially in rural areas for a number of years so you get an opportunity to know them well.You also get to meet parents regularly [informally] so its great to discuss issues.Whereas as at 2nd.level teenagers definitely do not want their parents calling informally to school so only contact is at P/T meetings.
      There are primary teaching jobs at the moment but with economy on downward spiral perhaps finance will dictate things.There is a huge male/female imbalance in primary teaching.In rural areas  males tend to dominate principalships but this is changing rapidly [a good thing] many men myself included are leaving that role at an alarming rate. Financially not worth it. I know that in a lot of rural schools in the next 5 years there will be no male teacher. I am only looking at make up of existing staffs and schools that I know. I have nt taken into account the number of males currently in training colleges.However In the last few years there has been increased interest in primary teaching due to the definite job available when qualified.As many primary degrees nowadays are 4 years followed by the necessity of post grad qualification, the current 3 year BEd programme seems attractive.
      The open days for Mary I was before Christmas not sure when the others take place


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## gianni (31 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the enlightened views folks, you have been most helpful!

The whole hibernia debate is something that seems to be a hot topic amongst the trade! Two sides to every story never seemed so apt....


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