# Commercial Lease



## path (28 Oct 2008)

Hi
I am negotiating a new long term lease for a retail unit and it was brought to my attention that the Landlord/Tenant law changed in July.

My solicitor does not seem to be aware of the changes.

Maybe someone knows what changes were made and if there are any implications on a 4yr 11month lease

thanks


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## mercman (28 Oct 2008)

You might be best if you had a different solicitor look at the new lease laws. These are major changes and I would be a little worried if your solicitor was not aware of these changes -- which are probably the most important in Commercial tenancies in years.


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## mf1 (28 Oct 2008)

New VAT regime. 

Look at the Revenue website for basic information and then revert either to solicitor or to accountant for advices. If you are both VAT registered, both aware of the new rules, know how you both want to deal with them, you will be fine. 

mf


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## mercman (28 Oct 2008)

Also a major change in the tenant's rights.


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## path (28 Oct 2008)

Hi Mercman

My solicitor said that he was more aware of conveyancing but he will read the bill.

The issue is if I have a new lease for 9years 11months do I have new rights or does the Landlord have the same rights as under a 4yr 11month lease.

Landlords solicitor maintains that the Landlord is "giving away" the property is they give me a long lease


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## mercman (28 Oct 2008)

Very basically the tenant has no rights under a new long term lease. i.e. in cases in the past where tenants automatically had the right to renew at he expiration of a previous lease, these rights are now gone.  I really do think that if your solicitor is not up to the mark, you should find another. There are a heap of other changes as well. And if the LL solicitor states that, I would check to see the angle for verification or otherwise. This is part and parcel of conveyancing.


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## path (28 Oct 2008)

Hi Mercman

Thanks for the advice. I think it is time for a new Solicitor.


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## mf1 (28 Oct 2008)

path said:


> Hi Mercman
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I think it is time for a new Solicitor.



How interesting! Based on an exceptionally vague statement from a complete stranger on an internet website, you're going to see about a new solicitor!

You would be better off  googling Landlord and Tenant law in ireland and seeing what the actual changes are.

mf


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## ninsaga (28 Oct 2008)

Yep - it relates to VAT - for which many solicitors will not have the detail unless they have processed a few ahead of yours - you'd need to get a VAT expert/Accountant to advise you on the implications for you!
ninsaga


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## mercman (28 Oct 2008)

I respectfully suggest that you note the provisions of Section 47 of the Civil Law Act 2008. which deals comprehensively with Landlords and Tenants rights. The OP posted a question concerning a lease issue, NOT VAT.

And if the OP's solicitor does not know about this important piece of legislation and he is more aware of conveyancing, i thought he just might be best served elsewhere.

MF!, So you reckon the OP should do his own research and then ask his solicitor who has not got a notion to research the matter and will no doubt will effect a fee note. And just in case you were not aware we are all complete strangers on this forum. I was just offering an opinion - the entire purpose of AAM


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## path (29 Oct 2008)

Hi Mf1

I


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## path (29 Oct 2008)

Hi Mf1

I spoke to my Solicitor today and he did not fully comprehend the change to the Law in relation to Business tenancies.

As I understand it, I now can get a lease for up to 9yr 11mths,sign a waiver and the Landlord does not loose their rights over the property.

If this is so, my solicitor should have known.

I am not bashing him but my Auctioneer seemed to know more about the change than him


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## path (29 Oct 2008)

Hi Mercman

You are correct, the main issue is not about VAT, it is about Property Rights


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## Askar (29 Oct 2008)

Both issues (VAT and tenancy rights/waiver) are relevant to the transaction.


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## mercman (29 Oct 2008)

Askar, maybe so, but in the context of the original Post the tenancy issue was the query, not the VAT. Sorry MF, maybe a complete stranger but was simply offering a solution to the OP's original inquiry. If the Solicitor is not up to speed with the law, the client is best moving to somebody that might help rather than distract.


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## path (14 Nov 2008)

Hi 

I am still trying to negotiate my lease but Landlord seem "tough" in his attitude . It is his way or no way.

Anyone out there negotiating a lease at the moment and what are Landlord like.

Have the paid too much for commercial property and are still tring to screw the tennants even though we are now in recession.

any observations are welcome


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## mercman (14 Nov 2008)

Path, in what way is your landlord acting tough and playing hardball. I'm not sure what part of the country you are in but generally speaking an existing tenant is one to keep, as long as rent etc. is being paid. Never mind the times, landlords are tough nuts normally anyway. It doesn't mean what they say has to go. Are you using a valuer ?? The rent under normal circumstances is set by rents in neighbouring / surrounding properties. PM me if you wish with other queries.


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## path (14 Nov 2008)

Hi Mercman

I am in Munster and have been on the 4yr11mth merry go round twice. I was approached by a Landlord offering a 850sq unit for 60k for 10 years.

I got a value of similar unit across the street let to G******P late 2006 at 50K pa.

Landlord wants me to pay part of his insurance and cover building costs if they arise. It is not in a S/C but there seems to be a Service Charge clause.

I feel as if he wants me to cover his running expenses as well as paying rent


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## mercman (14 Nov 2008)

If you have had two 4 years 11 month leases run concurrently without any breaks at all, you have rights on your side. Is it the same landlord ??? The rent at 60 k across the road in 2006 is interesting but might go against you. Are there any reviewed rents later than this date ?? Regarding the Insurance, this is the normal in a Commercial lease, rebuilding costs, full fire cover etc., and also consequential loss. As mentioned earlier, your solicitor shuld be able to advise you and if not find a better one. In fairness to the landlord these are normal expenses picked up by the tenants. Have you mentioned stepping the rent upwards over a five year period ??


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## path (14 Nov 2008)

Hi Mercman
It is  a different unit. My Landlords solicitor would not agree to a waiver on the existing unit unless the civil law act had been challenged in Court. The rent across the road was 50K but I do not know under what terms.
I have no problem with insurances and other outgoing,thede are part of business, but he want a service/maintenance charge even though I am not in a S/C.


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## mf1 (14 Nov 2008)

Well, if you don't want whats on offer, walk away! Neither of you can compel the other to do anything - it is a matter for negotiation, end of story and if negotiation is not possible, well then............. 

mf


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## mercman (14 Nov 2008)

If you have already had tow 4yr/11 month leases you still have your rights. The new law cannot change the past, it is for future happenings. Across the road -- was it 50k or 60k. A decent valuer should be able to find out the terms. The service charge element is probably part of the lease. You should be able to get that taken out if it is not part of a scheme or there are no other units part of the development. If there are you will just have to suffer it, in the same manner as the other tenants would have to.


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## path (3 Dec 2008)

Hi
Just to let you know that I got an offer of an extension to a 4yr 11mth lease under the civil law act 2008.

It is unchartered territory regarding landlords and tenants but at least some people are willing to do business

Thanks for the advice


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## mercman (5 Dec 2008)

path, if you got an offer of the new lease in the same property without any vacation period, you still have the same rights AFAIK.


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## mercman (9 Dec 2008)

If a commercial lease and with a Personal  Guarantee from the directors, yes the persons remain liable. Otherwise if the business folds without a guarantee the debts goes with it down the pan.


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## mercman (9 Dec 2008)

It's called the protection of one's assets.


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