# budget travel shop closures



## oldnick (16 Aug 2009)

I note in todays S.Business Post that Budget Travel is only offering statutory redundancy to its staff. Considering most of the staff have been on three day week this year I wonder if they'll get it based on their previous fulltime salary or on their present three-day salary ?

Either way they must be feeling mightly p....d off considering Thomas Cook workers were treated as heroes after refusing five weeks per year redundancy !

I wonder if the Budget staff will react in the same way as T.Cook staff -in which case who'll book Budget again ? Consider also Budget admits to a loss of five million so far this year , and that the parent company Primera Travel -Icelandic owned - owes Kaupthing Bank over 70 million.

Personally, I'd recommend anyone wanting to book with a travel agent to book with .....
..oh.blast I can't advertise on this site !!!


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## helllohello (16 Aug 2009)

i bet you were going to say book your flights direct with mr o leary. 
very reliable individual.


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## Leper (16 Aug 2009)

To be honest, I am sorry to see what is happening to some of the Budget Travel franchises and treatment of the staff involved.  Lets face it, Budget Travel were always a reputable company to deal with.  Gillian Bowler pioneered sun-travel for the Irish people when nobody else was interested. Remember she opened up the Greek Islands when all we had was a choice of was Franco's Costas of incomplete high rise apartment buildings (Benidorm etc).  [OK, along the way Budget Travel has lost sight of the goalposts . . . for the moment].  

But, I think Old Nick will come to the rescue of many's a future holiday goer.


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## sammy (17 Aug 2009)

Well Budget Travel has survived a long time. Their prices for package holidays are far cheaper than their two competitors. Ireland needs an independant tour operator to keep the big guns from monopolising the Irish travel market


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## oldnick (18 Aug 2009)

Yes, we need as many (good) tour operators as possible but the two unfortunate facts are that  
1) people just are not booking -or rather won't pay the price asked(when i opened my first travel agency thirty years ago we were charging 400 punt for the average package holiday -equal to a months salary then. Now 400 euros seems to shock some customers -"ah,we'll wait till the price goes down "  )

2) People-wrongly in many cases- are convinced that it's always cheaper on the internet.

3)But the tour operators themselves are much to blame -once again for 2010 they've brought out the same boring brochures with fixed one or two weeks by the sea -mainly in large buildings. 

There is no room in this small country for more than a few traditional tour operators(meaning sun and sea within a  few hours flights).

Unless they- and we travel agents -change then we're deservedly doomed.

Incidentally, Budget is now part of a large Scandinavian travel and airline group, Primera Travel- in no way connected with the founder and boss of Budget, Gillian Bowler. She wisely got out some time ago.

There are a few small Irish "traditional" tour operators -the biggest being Sunway- plus several small specialist tour operators dealing with long-destinations,city-breaks, lakes and mountains.


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## bren1916 (18 Aug 2009)

IMO travel agents as we know them are a dying breed as more and more people are booking directly via internet.
I haven't booked through an agent since 1995 and even booked honeymoon through net..advantages being you can fly out when it suits you,come back when it suits,stay wherever suits (rather than choice of 2 'hotels' in a resort.
Lately there's been a rise in independent travel 'consultants' who again will tailor a holiday around the customer's needs rather than being subjected to the agents list of hotels and resorts.
Last post was correct with the usual 'limited offering brochures'  - those days are gone TG..


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## oldnick (18 Aug 2009)

you are quite right bren -except to say that, increasingly, travel agents are doing their own thing and not just acting as agents for the fixed package operators. Any decent travel agent -and there are a few around - will work out different itineraries and choices for the consumer.

However, the government has decided from 1 January 2010 to add VAT to our profit margin on any  package created by the travel agent thus hastening our demise. 

The government sees this as a source of extra revenue -not undersdtanding that there'll be a few hundred more travel employees out of work because of this ruling. So, the government will get no VAT -but a lot more social welfare payments !


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## Leper (18 Aug 2009)

I agree with nearly everything Old Nick is saying. We don't have a large enough population here to really compete with Travel Agents in the UK or to drive prices down with Tour Operators. If the whole population of Ireland (north and south) emigrated to the Greater Birmingham area we would hardly be noticed over there. However, competition is good and somebody wants our travel business. Old Nick and all other decent Travel Agents being cases in point. Unfortunately, the giants of the industry are turning the deaf ears to the small operators.

Call Centres and large Travel Shops have done their bit to ruin the wishes of the holiday travelling Irish. Truth has been sacrificed for monetary commission and lies. Small Travel Agents have a vested and genuine interest in providing sound advice and the real truth (not the reframed truth which is equal to lies). [How many people found themselves in a near ghost town with closed supermarket and un-lifeguarded dangerous man-made beach in the off season]. 

So, the Irish Travel Industry is on its knees and things are not much better in the UK.
But, the Call Centres are here (or in Asia) to stay. This is what we call progress. Remember, the small shops never fought back against the supermarkets as the giants eked into their business and what have we now only supermarkets that can charge what they like? It will be the same in the Irish Travel Industry.

The internet is not the answer either. First rule in booking anything over the internet is the picture of the villa online probably is not the villa which you may be booking.

So, Be careful out there and always get the real truth.


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## darmitchell (16 Sep 2009)

This Budget Travel crowd are treating the workers like sh**te,basically trodding over their rights and pleading the poor mouth.Using the downturn as an excuse to close shops.I have no doubht if their internet selling takes off the rest of the shops will close.But they will still have sub-standard accomadation.
Its great to hear the staff have joined a union,up the workers.


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## oldnick (16 Sep 2009)

Can someone explain this about the lack of news about Budget ???

Thomas Cook offered staff five weeks per year redundancy and were still attacked by all and sundry. Staff  did their famous sit-in, politicians and trade unionists joined them etc etc.

Falcon have now let fifty staff go and offered them four weeks per year redundancy.

Budget on the other hand put their staff on a three day week all through this year.They suffered a great drop in salary in an effort to help their masters. 
And then at the end of the season Budget sacks 100 staff and offers nothing more than statutory redundancy.

And there is hardly one single comment from anyone ! No politicians, no press commentary. The leader of the trade union concerned issued a press statement on Friday which was ignored by nearly all the media.


Naturally,Budget have the absolute right to close shops if business is bad .
And they have the legal right to offer nothing more than statutory.
I'll probably also close my agency due to internet/recession, but I know that my remaining staff -like others in the shops I once owned and have been closing in the last three years -will not be left feeling the way that the affected Budget staff presently feel about their bosses.

(And,no, I don't know darmitchell -the previous poster)


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## j26 (16 Sep 2009)

Just head on the news that Slatterys has ceased trading

To Oldnick - there's some here that believe even statutory is too much


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## zag (16 Sep 2009)

Not a comment on Budget directly (unless they are/were the guys in the Square up near the cinema), but like many others I haven't spent much time in a travel agents in the last 10 years and it's primarily because they weren't able to do anything useful for me.

One time we took a fit of madness and said we would just book a package because we couldn't be bothered arranging flights, hotels, cars, etc . . . I went into that place in the Square and said "We want to go on a sun holiday 10 days from now, what kind of stuff do you have available ?"  I was directed to the brochures on the wall and that was it.  Thanks very much, missus, that's a few grand walking out the door with your brochure under his arm.  The same brochure I could have got online.

Another time I was looking to organise a month long family trip to China (and so spend a fair bit of dosh) and went into one of the long haul specialists.  All they could do was dig out their Asia brochure and show me pages 17-19 which contained the tours they handled.  I could have done this on the web.  I asked for prices and the only response was "When do you want to go ?"  At this stage I had only a rough idea so I gave some sample dates . . . tip tip tip . . . tap tap tap . . . next thing I knew I had an itinerary going via Heathrow (which I *hate*), leaving at 0630 and sitting in Heathrow for something like 10 hours, and similar situation with the return flights.  At this stage I just didn't have the energy to go through all the research I had done on the web already which showed that the timings via Amsterdam were much better, etc . . . the person behind the desk was just interested in giving out stuff, but made *no* effort to gather any of my preferences.  Even if there was anyone working there who had been to China and could pass on some advice it might have helped, but in reality for all the difference it made I may as well have been on the phone to a call centre somewhere.

I know there are good travel agents who care a lot and put effort in, but there's not a lot of them around from what I can tell.

I agree 100% about the bog standard brochures out there.  If there is to be any chance of survival these have to change.  We're a family of 2 adults and 2 children and most of the brochures I look at have apartments for 2 people, with a 3rd sofa bed or something.  Some of the apartments might be listed with capacity for 4, but you have to read through a lot of finicky detail to find which ones have the larger rooms and which ones don't.  I don't think that a family of 4 is atypical, so why is it so hard to find packages for them in the brochures ?  Previously, we have found hotels in brochures and after contacting them directly found that they do have bigger rooms . . . *and* they offer child discounts not shown in the brochures.  Is it any wonder that people are booking stuff themselves ?


z


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## oldnick (16 Sep 2009)

As a travel agent I regret that i agree with most of zags comments about travel agents and tour operators

I'm especially amazed that tour operators bring out the same take-it-or-leave one or two weeks fixed period by the beach with price lists that are often incomprehensible.

Better travel agents are now putting together packages as per clients desires.
Unfortunately the govnt has decided to impose VAT on these packages as from 1 Jan 2010 thus making it even dearer for anyone buying from a travel agent -plus the extra work VAT involves for us.
VAT is the main reason I'll bow out after thirty years owning travel agencies in and around Dublin.


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## helllohello (17 Sep 2009)

We all still need the travel agents at some stage.  Sure, we are brillent at the easy weekend and 2 week hols to europe  etc - but when going further afield we still need someone who knows what they are doing and where they are sending us.
when you head off into Isreal and surrounding, it is not a place you want to go wandering on your own.


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## undo (17 Sep 2009)

I personally have no need for travel agents whatsoever. The more complicated the trip gets, the more fun I have figuring it out and organizing it all. I know oldnick disagrees with me on that, but so be it .

 That said, I *do* see a niche for travel agents/tour operators if they are really, really good and offer actual added value. The example that comes to mind is my parents' trip on the Trans-Siberian a couple of years ago. I know many young people who have done that route on their own, some even without speaking a word of Russian. Yes, it can be done. But it will cost you a lot of time, it will be uncomfortable sleeping on local trains and you have to expect all sort of surprises. My parents are 60+ years old and this type of excitement is not for them. Instead, they got on a tour organized by some experienced operator who actually booked a whole private train, starting in Beijing and ending in Moscow, with bus tours arranged at interesting spots on the way. This kind of trip is much, much more expensive than doing it all on your own - but you *do* get a lot of added value. This is not simply a hotel and flight package, it is an actual special train that you would never be able to get on your own. This kind of stuff I totally agree there is a market for. But most travel agents do not operate on that level. Instead, they are fishing for the random inexperienced mom & pop who do not know how to book the same thing themselves for €200 less. Such travel agents are going out of business. And rightfully so.


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## oldnick (17 Sep 2009)

No, Undo, I don't disagree with your opening comments. If you enjoy the time figuring out  the more complicated itineraries then go for it. It is a bit like a hobby and one which I share.  
But there are loads of people who don't have the time, nor take any pleasure in nor have the ability/confidence to do it themselves. That's where a good travel agent comes in.
However, if someone wants a trekking holiday in the Andes, a tour of Burma or cruising in the South Pacific then i accept that 99% of travel agency staff could not provide immediate info'. A lazy travel agent would toss them a brochure and hope their desires are contained therein.  I would give a general short chat (to see what they really wanted and their possible budget) and promise them I'd get all the info' and a choice of trips within a few days  and fix a time to come back for a longer talk.

Anyway, it's besides the point -there will be no retail travel agents within a year.


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## Shawady (17 Sep 2009)

oldnick said:


> Anyway, it's besides the point -there will be no retail travel agents within a year.


 
Oldnick, do you think this is because of the recession or on-line travel reservations?


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## oldnick (17 Sep 2009)

The *internet* has been slowly killing us off. Frankly, there were too many retail travel agents and many of them were lazy, so a cull was needed of the most inefficient.

Its not only that people can book on the internet. Many people dont have credit cards so they cant book( this is the case in the West Dublin area I'm in) -but they still read the internet and drive us crazy with all the info/prices they have seen. 
We would book one in three persons walking in the shop ten years ago. Now it's one in six, as they run to and from their computer and this shop).

However, the* recession* has been been the prime reason that 100 outlets (out of 300 a year ago) have closed in the last twelve months.  As well, of course, as twenty airlines across Europe and hundreds of hotels. Almost no airline is making a profit at present.

*But the last straw for travel agents will be VAT*. Basically this means the government will add 21.5% on top of our profit margin. Not only will this increase the cost of travel from a travel agent but it'll mean a lot of crappy paperwork we don't need.

I am only talking about the survival of retail travel agents(the "traditional" travel agent) - not companies, usually upstairs offices, supplying busines travel,  nor specialist travel companies concentrating on ,say, pilgrimages or nudist hikes in the Arctic. How business travel companies or specialist travel companies will fare,I don't know.

In the whole of Dublin -city and county-  there are under twenty independent retail agents (and 17 of them  are owned by peole over fifty!) -plus a dozen owned by Budget and Falcon, (and they're also closing at a fast pace).


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## redwood park (21 Sep 2009)

I am not surprised that Budget is closing shops. I checked on budget www for 1 week at Gran Hotel Costa Meloneras in Gran Canaria on Dec 5th and got price for 2 people 1619 Euro for 2 people BB. I got flights for 215 Euros for 2 people inc all taxes and 2 bags check in.  1800 hotels have same room BB for 875 euro for 2. Total 1089 euro. Difference 530 euro. Transfer not a problem as bus from airport leaves you few minutes walk from hotel. What a price difference??


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## missc (7 Oct 2009)

I would just like to add a comment I have been a travel agent for the past 10 years and in this time I have seen how customers NEEDS have changed. Yes you are right tour ops are only concerned with the 7 or 14 duration which is ridiculous. I have studied sales and marketing and found that it is customer satisfaction that is the key to a business surviving. When my clients came into the office looking for a 10 night holiday or just mentioning it in passing I advised them that it could be done and took great excitement in tailoring a holiday just for them. I sat beside girls that wouldn’t even check this or look into a 10 nt break as an option. I have had families come into the office looking for a 3 night break to Disney in Paris and I have sent them to Disney in Orlando for a 10 night break for not much more then what Disney Paris cost. The reason my clients return to me year after is because I care how they get on I call them when they return to find out if they enjoyed themselves. Customer Care there is a lot to be said for it and valuing your customers it is far easier to retain customers and cheaper then to go out looking for new ones. 
I think that the role of the travel agent has changed from just an agent to a consultant and it is travel consultants that will lead the way. 
I love to learn about new destinations and I find it exciting and challenging getting the best holiday at the best price for my clients and beating the prices they have got themselves on the net.  I am very interested in your comments and please let me know if there is anything that you would change to like to see travel agents do that would help me to improve.


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## Leper (9 Oct 2009)

The Travel Agents on this forum appear to be upstanding, helpful, honest, forthright and customer focused.  But, unfortunately, only the aggressive will survive.  Watching that stupid but entertaining business programme on television about dog-eating-dog comes to mind.  Only this week our local Travel Agent closed down after about 35 years in the business.  The owner was also helpful, honest etc.  So were his staff.  But, the sell-holidays-for-as-much-as-you-can-get brigade in the city (according the the TA owner) has won the day.


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## oldnick (9 Oct 2009)

Well, yes, Leper I'd obviously agree with the kind words and the genral sentiments you state.
I like to think I'm  and my diminishing staff are one of the helpful types.
We are genuinely interested in what people want.
We really do not like to over charge people and always ask the client have they got it cheaper anywhewre else -internet etc.
We dissuade people from booking places that we (perhaps arrogantly) don't think are suitable.
We explain about travel insurance,and the various pitfalls -something we know that even insurance brokers dont do. Plus visa,injection and other requirements.
We help them with genuine complaints against tour operators/airlines.

... but we are probably closing our doors very shortly. 

i hope younger dynamic people like enthusiastic Mscc in a previous post  will have more success. I feel he/she is a much younger me !


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## KML (9 Oct 2009)

I would never book my holiday through the internet I will admit I look on the internet for information on a destination,and may have gotten tour operators prices just to compare, but I would not trust a computer system for the one holiday a year I may take with my family to be complete....
Being face to face with someone the comfort of knowing I never messed up and have some sort of come back makes the extra few pennies all worth while for more piece of mind.
Its a shame so many agents are closing ,its very sad for the travel industry,but is the closing down of these agencys not giving the full power over to the internet or that person you cannot see at other end of phone that tells you its in your terms & conditions yet they never told you those conditions before you booked(when over phone)...
Most companies have not brought out summer '10 as yet,which Iv entered numerious agents telling us to come back end of month,but would that not explain when some agents where busy in september it may have been for the following year's bookings as those brochures came out in august year on year, and then explain that is why they are so quiet now as it is not on sale?? 
I just cant get my head around it....


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## oldnick (9 Oct 2009)

Yes, KML, there are only a couple of "taster" brochures for next year with just a few holidays. The tour operators feel that few people will book now for next year. This belief is based on the last twelve months when most people booked only a few months -or weeks beforehand. Also, it's based on the fact that very few people are presently asking for next year - if they were asking the agents then we'd be on to the tour ops rightaway.

Ten years ago I'd book 30% of the Summer holidays a year in advance, three years ago it was 20%. Last year 10%. And,now, almost nobody is asking for next Summer.

This uncertainty is not only affecting tour operators and agents -it's harming airlines, hotels and even private property owners whether they sell through the internet or agents.

This will mean desperation on behalf of all the above and many customers will get great deals. But it will also mean closure of companies, airlines, hotels etc and a curtailment of many routes/destinations.

Its the same for the auto business and many others. Its the uncertainty that is closing us as much as lack of business. If we knew  there'd be business in a  few months many of us would stay open during the Winter. But paying rent, staff etc and sinking into debt month after month is too risky; not only for travel agents but for so many in the holiday business.

And, yes, most travel will be booked purely done thru the internet in a year or so. In the whole of Counties Dublin, Wicklow,Kildare and Meath there are now a grand total of 45 retail travel agents -down from about a 120 five years ago.


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## undo (9 Oct 2009)

I hate to complicate the argument but as holidays are a global business, it is worth looking across the border a bit. The one place I am most familiar with is Germany and people there are definitely booking as far ahead as they always were. The best offers for 2010 have already been snatched. With Irish customers much more cautious this year, it would seem to me that they will end up losing out as when people finally decide to book summer holidays for 2010, they will find that the really good offers are already gone. So it seems to me that not only the Irish travel industry is losing out but so are the customers... The deals available for 2010 will not be better, they will be *worse*.


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## KML (12 Oct 2009)

I agree with all your points Oldnick and Undo.. I can see your points completely but at same time are things that bad for those few still standing whats made the difference to them than the likes of these Big so called companies???
I totally agree shops are having to consider the debt issues etc..through the winter months for  if  things pick up and when if they ever do but it is very sad at the same time it seems the travel industry is completely about to fold.
Its also very sad on the workers too as there are no jobs out there to take up for if and when their jobs are gone too,im sure they are trying everything and they too are finding all this very hard...
Better upgrade my computer skills for the future!!


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