# Firebird 50 / 90 indoor boiler, balanced flue



## Tormented (2 Feb 2009)

Hello all,

last week we got a fill of kerosene as we had run out of oil for boiler. Ever since then we are getting a very strong smell of oil from boiler, as if the burner is not completely burning fuel. I replaced the nozzel as the last one was very black and sooty looking, however this has not helped. The boiler is starting up and works fine other than this strong fuel smell.

There is no smoke from the flue only hot fumes as is normal.

Does anyone have any solutions to the problem.

(I only hope that the oil delivery man has not given us any gas oil with delivery, sometimes I think that the delivery people do not fully flush out their delivery hose after delivering diesel before a kerosene delivery. I have checked the tank and it looks and smells like kerosene, but its hard 
to tell.)

Hope someone can advise

Thanks


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## davidoco (2 Feb 2009)

Did you tip the burner on its back to change the nozzle.  The smallest spill of oil will linger. 

You should also be checking the flexible fuel line as it may have come loose when removing the burner.  A leak may be travelling down the pipe, out of the casing to the floor which is hiding it from your view.

Kerosene is red, diesel is green.  In my mind kerosene has a much stronger smell than diesel/gas oil.


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## Tormented (2 Feb 2009)

Hi davidoco

thank you for your reply, I have checked the flexable fuel line and connections and all seems tight and dry, also the floor area under burner is dry, I did spill a small drop of kero on floor (thimble full) but cleaned this up. 
The reason I changed the nozzel was because the boiler was already giving off strong fuel smell, it smells as if the fuel is not being fully burned, the inside of combustion chamber looks very dry with hardly any soot at all.

Is it possible that the air mix  does not suit the current fill of kero (more air, less air ?)

I suppose its difficult to get it sorted without a gas / combustion  analyser


I know its a tricky one, thank you for trying


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## phester (2 Feb 2009)

Something very similar happened in my parents oil burner.

Very strong smell of oil etc. no smoke

Turned out that they delivered Kerosene when it was set up for Oil.

Check out the colour of the fuel in the line.



A small % of one in the other is fine. I watched the lorry man switch from one type to the other 100lt before the end of the delivery to flush the diesel through his pipe for the next delivery which was Kerosene


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## davidoco (2 Feb 2009)

Tormented said:


> .... I changed the nozzel.....


 
Before you do anything you should verify that you have changed like nozzel for the same one that came out of it. Although it may have said so on the lid of the new nozzel the actual spec of the nozzel may have been different in the tube.



Tormented said:


> Is it possible that the air mix does not suit the current fill of kero (more air, less air ?)


 
It is a very fine art adjusting the air or oil pressure mix without at least a temperature gauge and smoke pump.  It is a very black art adjusting these with no equipment apart from an allen key.

Perhaps it is time to get it serviced. It could be any number of issues but one is that the electrodes, cables, control box,  (one of the above) are malfunctioning intermittently and you are getting fuel feed without spark each time or delayed spark which is spewing out oil which is not being combusted (?)  You may have upset or replaced incorrectly changing the nozzle

Does the burner sound ok/normal.  Up to 12 seconds fan running, then burn or does it (sound effects needed) fan on 12 seconds, zzzzzzeeedddddddddd for anything up to 5 seconds (with clicking noise) then burn.

PS remove and reseat the burner on the flange attached to the boiler and make sure you are not catching a cable or something between the burner and the boiler flange.  Also when you have it out look at the tube, is it wet anywhere or is it wet around the nozzle. Have a look at the electrodes while there and note their location and distance between them.


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## Tormented (2 Feb 2009)

Hi Davidoco

sounds fine on startup, I will check flametube and nozzel in the morning for fuel wetness. It may well be the electrodes, I will try the Firebird site for tech info, and get the gapping , distance correct.

But you are probably right about fuel not being ignited at the correct time, it does really sound like the control box you know, all the cables seem fine etc,  I will let you know tomorrow how I get on.

Again many thanks, good to have second opinion.


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## DavyJones (2 Feb 2009)

You say you ran out of oil, did you bleed the burner? if so, from where?


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## Tormented (3 Feb 2009)

Hi Davy

thank you for reply

I bled from the nearest nut directly under pump, I now know I should bleed from allen nut on side of pump.Would this have made any difference. ?


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## Tormented (3 Feb 2009)

Hi traditional,

I believe I put the nozzel on correctly, however I will check again, hope it is not control box.


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## DGOBS (4 Feb 2009)

Assuming your burner is a riello g3b, try checking for a very slight leak under the small hydraulic jack that opens the air cover on the right hand side of the burner, the orings in these do go, especially with kero. Tey are normally overlooked for leaks when there is smell but no wetness......

If so, easier to replace the whole small unit (about €25-30)


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## Tormented (5 Feb 2009)

Hi DGOBS

no luck itS a Riello G5X, but thank you for the idea.


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## DavyJones (5 Feb 2009)

You didn't by any chance go at the pressure adjustment screw?


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## DGOBS (5 Feb 2009)

Ok, lets go back to basics here....

A FUEL smell is caused by only one thing, a leak of oil.....
If you can't find any leak evidence the only other place to try would be in the blast tube, when firing you could have a small drip from the nozzel fitting (this can also present and a small whisp of smoke that travels back and out arount the mounting flange when firing......
Other than that, if there is no evidense of oil leaks at the burner, pump (check all pipe connections and blanks) or on the hydraulic jack (none on the G5x) at the fire valve, flexible hose, filter bowl, all connection at both the last two listed, remember it could be a very very small leak you can still smell, and lastly where the plastic sheath ends on the copper pipe comming from the tank (if you find it there, the actual leak is usually at the tank, and is travelling the whole pipe length between the plastic and a copper inner to come out there)

Failing all that, a line pressure test maybe required to test your line right back to the tank.

The other is fume or boiler smell.....a completely different set of issues that often get mixed up

this can be caused by improper setup of your burner air/fuel mix (have a FGA done by your serviceman) or couldd be down to poor or degraded seals on the boiler or burner mounting flange, a leak at the nozzel as discussed above, flue gas recycling, bad flue joining or seal at the boiler or along its length. Thats about all I can think of at first glance...

Hope that is of some help...


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## Tormented (6 Feb 2009)

Hi DGOBS

thank you for taking the time to give your excellent advice, you do know your stuff, thats for sure.

I eventually called in the service engineer and he did a full service and combustion check, showed me the figures etc all ok after service. Engineer said he could not find any leaks of kero, but did suggest that the gasket / seal on the cover of the baffle chamber and the burner cover seal were not the best, therefore the smell may be coming from there. He was not too sure himself, but said that if it still smells he will come back to check it out. ( It still smells )

Now on your advice I have checked out the tank and guess what, it is wet from kero, and the white plastic coated copper   pipe is also enclosed in a black plastic pipe about 3/4" dia which runs through the ground, tank is about 30 feet from boiler, tank is about 3 feet above level of boiler pump.
However I did not really notice any damp / oil wetness on the pipe at the boiler end, but this is the only fault that I can find.

I will have the leak at the tank sorted and let you know, many thanks for you help with this one.


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## Tormented (6 Feb 2009)

Definitely did not touch the pressure screw !


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## DGOBS (6 Feb 2009)

OK, does the outer black pipe also terminate in beside the boiler?
if so maybe the leaking kero is in the pipe pooled somewhere underground and the smell is travelling in the pipe into the house, use some silicone sealer to seal between the copper oil line and the black pipe at the boiler and see if it helps.

Once again, are you sure its oil smell or boiler smell....


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## tommylimeric (27 Apr 2009)

Hi
I replaced the top box gasket on my 50/90 last week as i was getting a fume smell and after resealing the flue outlet & changing the jet i discovered that this fibreglass gasket has fallen to pieces. However i am now getting a completely different smell - kind of a sour milk smell, does the gasket take time to settle in? Is this smell from the new gasket when it heats up? Also how tight should i squeeze gasket to furnace box, at 20 euro a piece i dont want to smash this one by over tightening. Thanks


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## RAZZLE (21 Dec 2009)

can anyone tell me why burner keeps firing up,even do its already lighting.its a firebird g5x 90k?


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## msher (26 Jan 2010)

yes ,i bought a gasket for furnace door in heat merchants on childers rd for riello 3gb,shocked to pay 14 euros,wife then breaks ii three bits,never fitted it before,might be able to still use?has nt been open for 4 years possibility might be able to still use old one?


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## Leo (26 Jan 2010)

msher said:


> yes ,i bought a gasket for furnace door in heat merchants on childers rd for riello 3gb,shocked to pay 14 euros,wife then breaks ii three bits,never fitted it before,might be able to still use?has nt been open for 4 years possibility might be able to still use old one?


 
A re-write of that might be in order to make it easier to understand.


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