# How many objections to planning application needed?



## Cahir (6 Jun 2006)

Does anyone know how many objections to a site notice are needed to stop the work from going ahead?

My road was meant to be a cul de sac (part of the reason for choosing the house), but now planning notices have gone up to turn the road into a main road for about 5 housing estates, a shopping centre and site traffic for new builds.  Obviously all of the residents are more than a little peed off and we're all going to object but what are the chances of our objections being taken seriously??


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## Purple (6 Jun 2006)

Get a good solicitor working on this straight away.


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## Cahir (6 Jun 2006)

Any idea how much that will cost?


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## efm (6 Jun 2006)

From my limited experience I don't think the actual number of objections has very much influence; but 1,000 objections vs 5 might certainly get the planning dept sit up and take notice.

If the proposed development is on land that has been (re)-zoned for development (either residential and / or mixed) then the planning authorities are slow to refuse it as the local council has obviously decided that this is where they want development to take place.

Without knowing the area what I would suggest is that you hire / borrow / whatever an experienced engineer to detail why the development either shouldn't go ahead, or why access shouldn't be through your road.  Get him / her to look at sight lines for traffic exiting your cul-de-sac to see if the traffic can exit and enter safely, to see if your house will be overlooked, and to see if the development is in keeping with the surrounding development - all of this may help your case.  It might also be worthwhile talking to a local councillor to say what his / her opinion on the development is though these days they seem to have very little influence on individual planning applications.

Based on my experience objecting to a cul-de-sac being used as access to further development because of upset / inconvenience to you, increased traffic / noise, decreased safety for children, etc is pointless as the planning auth don't seem to care (this is a sweeping generalisation based on a singular experience but I don't care!!)


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## delgirl (6 Jun 2006)

Exactly the same thing happened where my sister lives - cul de sac with very narrow road 6.5m (only 2 car width) where children play, etc.

A developer bought a house with land behind her cul de sac and applied for planning. The neighbours got together and vigorously opposed permission with letters, meetings with councillors, etc. - all to no avail.

The developer has his permission to use their once peaceful little road as access to his development with 51 units - with the now 2 car family practically standard, this will mean and extra 100 or so residents' vehicles, plus delivery, refuse trucks, etc. passing through this narrow road. 

The planning approval is [broken link removed]- D04A/1505 and there's a bit more detail on the 'grounds of appeal' .

I would think that if you were really hell bent on stopping it, you may need to get together and seek advice from a solicitor who is familiar with planning law.


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## efm (6 Jun 2006)

Further to my post and delgirls post above - the same thing happened to me as happened to delgirls sister - quiet cul-de-sac, 5 houses is now access road for 50+ units plus construction traffic. We objected and appealed to An Bord Pleanala all to no avail. Developers attitude was he didn't mind all the delays and objections as it just meant he would charge more for the houses !


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## Cahir (6 Jun 2006)

The problem has basically been shifted from one side of the estate to the other causing problems for more residents.  There's a meeting tomorrow night and we've asked local councillers along although I agree that this is probably useless.

The cul de sacs (back to back) were never in place but one bullet point on the site notice has applied for removal of these cul de sacs so it seems that the current planning permission isn't being upheld.  Also, there are meant to be two parking spaces for every 3 bed house and 1 space for every two bed but this also isn't the case and if the road goes ahead there'll be even less parking available.

The new road would essentially take all the traffic from the M1 to Balbriggan, Gormanstown etc right past the house - the road is less than 3 metres from the front door.

I think we will have to get a solicitor on this.  Can anyone recommend a good one in the Balbriggan area??


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## DrMoriarty (6 Jun 2006)

Can't help with a solicitor, but would offer one further tip — try to get your hands on a copy of the area's development plan. If you (or your hired guns) can show that the proposed developments substantially breach any of its provisions re housing density, adequate road access/drainage infrastructure in the immediate vicinity, etc., that will strengthen your case a lot more than the difference between 20/200 signatures.

Mind you, I've often had occasion to admit that between the CoCo, An Booooord P and a well-connected developer, _anything_ can happen...!


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## Superman (6 Jun 2006)

Numbers aren't decisive, however it obviously reads better on a report that 
"there were 2435 objections to this Application" as opposed to  "there were 3 objections to this Application".  
I suggest getting a good engineer/architect to write the objection on behalf of a "residents' association" - i.e. you and your neighbours. On top of that each individual can make a coordinated set of objections.  I don't believe that a solicitor would be of much use.

Regarding the looking up of the local development plan - unless the engineer/architect chosen was very bad, this would be done.

Regarding DrM's comments on An Bord P - I believe they are absolutely above reproach.  Whereas at Local Level, there can be political pressure brought to bear by local councillors, this does not occur at an Bord Pleanala (IME).

Best of luck.


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## Cahir (7 Jun 2006)

Thanks for all the advice.  Yesterday we got a copy of the development plan for 2005-2011 and the road isn't marked on it so maybe that's promising.  

One of the neighbours spoke to her solicitor and he said we need a planning consultant so that's the task for today.


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## DrMoriarty (7 Jun 2006)

Superman said:
			
		

> Regarding DrM's comments on An Bord P - I believe they are absolutely above reproach. Whereas at Local Level, there can be political pressure brought to bear by local councillors, this does not occur at an Bord Pleanala (IME).


In fairness, I did say _'between_ the CoCo, An Booooord P and a well-connected developer...'. I accept that _an Bord Pleanala_ is of necessity more accountable/responsible than are some local authorities. But — without wishing to go into fr'instances — I wouldn't accept that they are/have been 'absolutely above reproach'.


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## Superman (7 Jun 2006)

You're probably right, DrM.


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## Guest120 (7 Jun 2006)

Where abouts are we looking at on this map do you mind me asking?

[broken link removed]


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## Cahir (7 Jun 2006)

Can't tell on that map.  Got a clearer one from the planning office.  Will pm you with exact location.


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## Guest120 (15 Jun 2006)

Saw your plight and the planning permission in the paper.

To be honest I'd say it'll get the planning.


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## Cahir (15 Jun 2006)

Yep, you're probably right.  Will definitely sell up then.


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## Guest120 (15 Jun 2006)

Cahir said:
			
		

> Yep, you're probably right.  Will definitely sell up then.



I'm really basing my decision on that over the last 5 years in that area I've seen little planning refused. Also with the land to the south all zone for housing/development there really is no other option but that road to open up the lands.


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## Cahir (15 Jun 2006)

There's still the option on the original plans where the road is on the other side of the field.  The road is going to be built anyway as the main bus route according to the application.


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## Cahir (26 Jul 2006)

Just a quick update.

The planning application was refused yesterday - yay!!  No need to move now!


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## Guest120 (26 Jul 2006)

Cahir said:
			
		

> Just a quick update.
> 
> The planning application was refused yesterday - yay!!  No need to move now!



Was it refuesed asking for further information? I'm sure they will just resubmit. Any large development usually goes through a phase of applications.

Anyhow, didn't I read that there is an alternative route for the road on undeveloped land anyhow? Seems like the best option.


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## Cahir (26 Jul 2006)

Don't know any details about the refusal because I'm not around this week so just got a text yesterday.

There is an alternative route for the road that's much more suitable and the Local Area Plan (dated last September) has a paragraph saying that a road should never go the way the planning application suggested as it's unsuitable for a number of reasons.


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## teddyk (15 Jan 2007)

Hi,

Would anyone have a sample letter of objection to planning permission that they wouldn't mind emailing to me?  If you can, PM me and I'll send on email address.

Any help much appreciated.

teddyk.


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## Decani (15 Jan 2007)

Plenty of them should be available on county council website that give info about planning applications. For example, . Just look for 3rd party submissions.


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## teddyk (15 Jan 2007)

Thanks Decani.

Very useful link.
My own local council does not see fit to publish such correspondence on their website.

teddyk


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