# Bullied at work - do I have a legal case?



## Rois (22 Nov 2008)

About 4 years ago I started work for a large local organisation. After a short period of time, I was systematically bullied by the manager for about 16 months. At that stage, I went to HR and asked to be moved to a different section of the organisation. To cut a long story short, I was offered a move to a department 30 miles away. As a result of the bullying, I was on heavy medication and quite ill and I couldn't face driving such a distance. Therefore, I was forced to resign or be sacked. I resigned - that was about 2 years ago. 

My health (mental and physical) continued to deteriorate and it was another year before I was able to start work again. I have now found out that the manager concerned is on paid leave as a result of a similar allegation from a member of staff. 

I wonder if I could now take legal action against the company for the bullying at this stage and given that the organisation involved ? Or should I just let bygones be gone and be grateful that I am in a better place now.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> About 4 years ago I started work for a large local organisation. After a short period of time, I was systematically bullied by the manager for about 16 months. At that stage, I went to HR and asked to be moved to a different section of the organisation.  To cut a long story short, I was offered a move to a department 30 miles away.  As a result of the bullying, I was on heavy medication and quite ill and I couldn't face driving such a distance.  Therefore, I was forced to resign or be sacked.  I resigned - that was about 2 years ago.
> 
> My health (mental and physical) continued to deteriorate and it was another year before I was able to start work again.  I have now found out that the manager concerned is on paid leave as a result of a similar allegation from a member of staff.
> 
> I wonder if I could now take legal action against the company for the bullying at this stage and given that the organisation involved ?  Or should I just let bygones be gone and be grateful that I am in a better place now.



My simple reading of this ..... if you didn't make reference to the bullying when you were there with the HR manager etc. you could find it quite difficult to prove your case .... depends on who you told ... and what the reasons (official) reasons for your resignation were.

Were you to win your case you might get a few thousand euro .... is it worth it revisting the whole issue? or should you just move on and focus on the future?

I don't know ....only you know the answer to that.


----------



## Rois (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



PaddyBloggit said:


> My simple reading of this ..... if you didn't make reference to the bullying when you were there with the HR manager etc. you could find it quite difficult to prove your case .... depends on who you told ... and what the reasons (official) reasons for your resignation were.
> 
> Were you to win your case you might get a few thousand euro .... is it worth it revisting the whole issue? or should you just move on and focus on the future?
> 
> I don't know ....only you know the answer to that.


 
Thanks for reply. To clarify a bit more, when I first went to HR and told them I was very unhappy all I said was that I felt I was being discriminated against. They asked me to name the person, I said I didn't want to do this, so the HR manager said the persons name to me and I confirmed it was him. She said it wasn't the first time these allegations had been made. But I said I didn't want to take it any further and just requested a transfer to another section, which I got but only for 6 weeks, when I was told I had to move to another branch 30 miles away.  When I said I couldn't do this, on medical grounds, I was sent for a medical and the GP confirmed that I wasn't up to travelling at that point in time. 

I then had to attend a disciplinary for refusing to travel (as it was part of my contract that I had to travel to any branch office as requested). I had the support of the Union at the disciplinary and the letters from the company GP and my own GP. However, after the disciplinary, I received a letter saying I could keep my job on condition that I transferred. The organisation and Union were fully aware of the bullying situation at this stage. They were also aware that I had suffered a nervous breakdown as a result of the bullying.

I resigned on the basis that I couldn't travel and was therefore in breach of my contract.  I don't believe HR wanted to deal with my allegations of bullying at the time and wanted to protect the manager concerned. However, now that the manager is on paid leave for the same allegations against another member of staff, maybe they would listen to my case with more respect.  

Of course, I am not sure that I want to re-open the whole issue, but my health was seriously affected as a result, and I suffered a big loss of earnings for a year.  Thankfully, I am stronger now and my question is whether to look for redress legally.  I know this is a decision that I have to make myself, but I am just looking for advice - I am not interested in financial gain/compensation per se, rather for recognition of what I was put through and the totally dismissive way in which I was treated by the organisation.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*

In relation to schools we have what's called an 'Anti-Bullying Policy' in relation to workers within the school (as distinct from the Anti-Bullying Policy dealing with pupils). It states exactly what steps need to be taken in respect of a complaint.

Was such a policy in place?

Just a further thought ..... if the HR Manager asked you about pursuing it at the time and you said you didn't want to, the company can argue that they dealt with it at the time and that the matter had been closed because you didn't want to pursue a complaint. Would your conversation with the HR Manager have been recorded?


----------



## Rois (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*

Yes Paddy they did have an anti-bullying (or similar) policy but I don't have any details of this, nor did I ask to pursue it at the time. I was happy just to move to another section.  However, HR called the manager in question to a meeting after my request and asked him if there was a culture of bullying in my section.  He denied this. But following that meeting he called me into his office, left the door open and within earshot of everyone else in the section went mad with me for going to HR behind his back.


----------



## ajapale (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*

Moved from  Askaboutlaw to  Work, Careers


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



ajapale said:


> Moved from Askaboutlaw to Work, Careers


 
May I ask why this has been moved to a different thread when what I really want is legal advice and not career advice?


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



PaddyBloggit said:


> Just a further thought ..... if the HR Manager asked you about pursuing it at the time and you said you didn't want to, the company can argue that they dealt with it at the time and that the matter had been closed because you didn't want to pursue a complaint. Would your conversation with the HR Manager have been recorded?


 
No my initial conversation with HR was not recorded - it was an informal chat. I didn't want to pursue the issue as I still had to work with that manager and they told me that it could take weeks or months before I could be moved to another section - if at all.  I was also just on a temporary contract and fearful of losing my job at the time.  Looking back now I should have taken a different approach, but I was not thinking straight at the time as was in the middle of a nervous breakdown and practically suicidal.  However, in later meetings with HR prior to and during the disciplinary, they were made fully aware of the situation.


----------



## Susanna (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*

Looking at the times of your 2 posts above ,it looks like you are not sleeping properly.....maybe over all of this. I think you should move on and don't let this episode, waste another minute of your life. I hope you have found  a better place to work. Best Wishes.


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*

Thanks Susanna. I am frequently up late or very early, but that's due to the fact that I now have 5 part-time jobs, some of which involve shift work as well as working from home on my own internet business where I have to deal with contacts in China and the time difference etc.  I am not losing sleep over this matter now (though I did at the time).  I am inclined to agree with you that I should just forget about the whole episode, which, to be honest, I had done until I read in the paper that the manager was suspended for the same thing again .. and of course that brought it all back to me, and maybe there's a desire for revenge or some kind of acknowledgment from the organisation for the poor way, I believe, they dealt with my complaint at the time.  

I will give it some more thought before I decide either way and thank you again.


----------



## MaryBe (23 Nov 2008)

Rois, to my knowledge an ex employee has 6 months to instigate a case against a former employer.  If the 6 month period expires so too does your case.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> May I ask why this has been moved to a different thread when what I really want is legal advice and not career advice?



Read the subtitle for the forum Askaboutlaw:

_For legal issues not covered in another forum. Ask about conveyancing in Mortgages forum. Ask about road traffic law in Cars & Motoring. Ask about tenant issues in Property Investment._


----------



## europhile (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> I now have 5 part-time jobs, some of which involve shift work as well as working from home on my own internet business where I have to deal with contacts in China and the time difference etc.



Are these hours being tracked under the Organisation of Working Time Act?


----------



## PaddyBloggit (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



europhile said:


> Are these hours being tracked under the Organisation of Working Time Act?




May I ask why?


----------



## europhile (23 Nov 2008)

There's a maximum number of hours an individual is supposed to work.


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

They are all part-time jobs, I doubt that I am in breach of any legislation with regard to hours worked.


----------



## europhile (23 Nov 2008)

I think it's the employers who would be liable.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (23 Nov 2008)

europhile said:


> I think it's the employers who would be liable.



But if they are all different part-time jobs surely it's the worker who should keep track of her own hours as the part-time job employers only know what hours she's getting through their part-time job.


----------



## europhile (23 Nov 2008)

I'm not entirely sure how it works. If aybody knows I'd be interested to know.


----------



## Purple (23 Nov 2008)

europhile said:


> I'm not entirely sure how it works. If aybody knows I'd be interested to know.



AFAIK the employer is required to make sure that an employee is not in breach of the act, even if the breach is caused by having two or more jobs. That said it is a stupid law and should be ignored by anyone who wants to run their own life. It also doesn't apply to self employed people so if Rois puts up most of his/her hours on their internet business then there is no breach. 

Anyway, Rois has more pressing things to worry about at the moment.


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

Strange how this thread has changed!  But my part-time jobs are with 2 different employers and do not go over 2-3 days per week (28 hours approx. but can vary).  For my other jobs - I take these on myself - I spend maybe 3 hours per day (or night!) on the internet business, processing orders, answering queries etc.  Then what time I've left I work on the remaining 2 jobs to suit myself.  This suits me at the moment, as I am very strapped for cash and heavily in debt, which goes back to the time I had the nervous breakdown after the bullying and couldn't work for a year.  When I was able to work again that employer refused to give me a reference even though my work performance was never in question, so I had to settle for casual work and start to look at self-employment.


----------



## hhhhhhhhhh (23 Nov 2008)

6 months time frame to bring a case for unfair dismissal
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...ent-and-redundancy/dismissal/unfair_dismissal

I doubt you would even have a case, as they have a bullying policy and you didn't follow it, by refusing to take action against the person involved, by not making a formal complain you have let them off the hook.


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

I don't want to take a case for unfair dismissal - it's more to do with the subsequent affect the bullying had on my health and the financial loss I suffered as a result, both of which were very considerable. I guess that would be more of a civil matter against the organisation and may be too late to pursue at this stage, but I wanted to see what other people think, before I decide whether or not to go down this road.


----------



## Diziet (23 Nov 2008)

Rois,

I am very sorry for what has happened, and I completely understand the effect it has had on you. Having had personal experience of a close family member who took a very well justified and fully documented bullying complaint to legal action, my very brief advice is - don't. 

Proving psychological damage is very difficult, and the actions that constitute bullying are not actually illegal. There is virtually no case won on this basis. My family member was told by a barrister who was acting for him that 'employers will rather admit to rape than bullying'. 

Going the legal route can be protracted, costly, and damage your health. The best action is to live a good life - try to put the small mindedness of these idiots behind you, be kind to yourself and get on with your life. There is nothing you can do that can change the past, but don't let it poison your future.


----------



## Complainer (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> I am inclined to agree with you that I should just forget about the whole episode, which, to be honest, I had done until I read in the paper that the manager was suspended for the same thing again


Are suspensions normally reported in the paper round your way? Seems very unusual to me.

On the bigger issue, I'd be inclined to forget about it and move on. This would consume a huge amount of emotional energy, time and resources.


----------



## AgathaC (23 Nov 2008)

I am very sorry to hear about what you went through. I worked with a bully many years ago and it is a horrible situation. Thankfully it was sorted.
I think that pursuing this would bring you back into a horrible phase of your life although I can see that you would like (and you deserve) some acknowledgement from the company of what you went through. I think you have moved on in your life and this would bring a whole lot of stress onto you that you dont need. I wish you all the very best in whatever decision you reach.


----------



## Rois (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Complainer said:


> Are suspensions normally reported in the paper round your way? Seems very unusual to me.


 
Yes it was reported in the local paper although no names were mentioned, but I heard from my ex-colleagues who the manager concerned was and it didn't surprise me one bit. 

From all the advice and feedback I am inclined now to leave it in the past. On the other hand, some family and friends are pressing me to take legal action (as they witnessed first hand the toll it took on me). At the end of the day, I am will have to decide for myself and as I said, my instinct is telling me to forget about it and look forward rather than re-visit the past.


----------



## Diziet (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> On the other hand, some family and friends are pressing me to take legal action (as they witnessed first hand the toll it took on me).



Ignore them. They are advising out of a sense of fairness but they have absolutely no idea what legal action involves in practice. Only take legal advice from a legal expert, and one with expertise in similar employment cases at that.


----------



## WaterSprite (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Diziet said:


> Ignore them. They are advising out of a sense of fairness but they have absolutely no idea what legal action involves in practice. Only take legal advice from a legal expert, and one with expertise in similar employment cases at that.



I completely agree.  Cases for unfair/constructive dismissal can only be brought within 6 months of the date of leaving, absent extenuating circumstances.  Outside of a constructive dismissal claim (which the facts don't support in my view), then you'd be looking at probably tort law to find a solution, which is a big stretch and is certainly not something that unqualified well-wishers can comment on with any authority.  OP, take what your friends are saying as an expression of support only - they do not know what they are talking about when it comes to the likelihood of success of a legal action.  It's better for you if you stop thinking like you have a cause of action and are deciding whether to bring a successful suit.  The first step in any of this, if you really want to know whether you have a legal cause of action, is to consult an employment solicitor.  While you have been wronged from a moral perspective, I have serious doubts that there is any legal remedy, in which case it's far better for you to move on with your life and try to forget about it; it seems that you had done so until this article appeared in the newspaper so ignore this new information and continue on with your life.

Sprite


----------



## Rois (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



WaterSprite said:


> . While you have been wronged from a moral perspective, I have serious doubts that there is any legal remedy, in which case it's far better for you to move on with your life and try to forget about it; it seems that you had done so until this article appeared in the newspaper so ignore this new information and continue on with your life.
> Sprite


 
I started my second part-time job with new employer on Friday, so today was my second day working there.  I have now been told that they can't keep me on as they couldn't get a reference from my previous employer and that I was over-qualified!  So in fact, the actions of this person are still coming back to haunt me - I needed this job so much, both financially and from a confidence point of view.

I am sitting at home now in tears as I write this, wondering what I am going to do next i.e. will I ever be able to get a decent job again. I feel desperately angry as I had an impeccible work record until I went to work for that organisation. Now, more than ever, I feel I should take legal action - whereas last night I was ready to just let it go.


----------



## WaterSprite (24 Nov 2008)

I'm very sorry to hear of your latest trouble - for what it's worth, you sound like a resourceful and hard working person and I sincerely hope you find a way out of your current difficulties.

I still think that you are looking at the situation with your previous employer as grounds for legal action.  I don't personally believe that there is a case but the ONLY way you will know if you even have a case is to consult with an employment law solicitor, but be prepared for them to tell you that there is no legal case to answer.  I can't answer that question for you and I don't think anyone here can.  I think you need to do this though, even if just to be told that there's no case to take - I don't think you are doing yourself any favours by believing that there's a case but treating it as a decision as to whether to take an action or not.  If there is no case, then the decision is taken out of your hands and you will be able to concentrate on the here and now.  I think that if you view what happened at your previous employers as the route of all the problems, it will only lead to further heartache for you and you will not be able to see beyond it.  

Employers are not obliged to give a reference and so, in future interviews, you should have a constructive answer to give as to why the prospective employer cannot contact your previous employer for a reference (there already is an objective reason as to why you left - that they wanted you to move office and you couldn't so you had to leave).  You should also contact the HR department of your old employer and ask why they are not supplying you with a reference - it didn't sound like you left on bad terms...

You said also that you didn't get this job because you were over qualified.  There are plenty of reasons why good people don't get particular jobs - I genuinely believe that if you focus all the blame on your previous employer and the lack of reference, you will not be able to get out of this cycle of despair/pessimism and will suffer because of it.

I am in no way condoning your previous colleague's behaviour and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of an agony aunt (!) but I really believe that you need to either let this go for once and for all or else go to an employment solicitor and be prepared for bad news.

Best of luck
Sprite


----------



## Purple (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: Bullied at work - do I have a case?*



Rois said:


> I started my second part-time job with new employer on Friday, so today was my second day working there.  I have now been told that they can't keep me on as they couldn't get a reference from my previous employer and that I was over-qualified!  So in fact, the actions of this person are still coming back to haunt me - I needed this job so much, both financially and from a confidence point of view.
> 
> I am sitting at home now in tears as I write this, wondering what I am going to do next i.e. will I ever be able to get a decent job again. I feel desperately angry as I had an impeccible work record until I went to work for that organisation. Now, more than ever, I feel I should take legal action - whereas last night I was ready to just let it go.



I put a lot of weight in WaterSprite’s posts on these sorts of questions; if I was you I’d read her posts again before acting. I know you are upset at the moment but decisions such as this need to be made with a clear head.
You are angry, and rightly so, my advice is to talk to a solicitor.


----------



## SlurrySlump (24 Nov 2008)

You said to your HR manager that you were being discriminated against. Just looking at the list below of "what is bullying" I don't see the term "discrimination".


Humiliation - including name-calling or teasing about doing well at school
Intimidation - including aggressive body language
Verbal abuse - to someone?s face or behind their back
Physical abuse or threatened abuse - such as hitting, pushing or kicking
Aggressive or obscene language - including sexual references
Offensive jokes - spoken or in writing, by e-mail or text messages
Victimisation - picking on someone, including making very personal remarks
Exclusion and isolation - deliberately leaving people out of activities
Intrusion - such as interfering with belongings or locker
Repeatedly giving someone the same unfavourable tasks
Repeated unreasonable deadlines or tasks
Threats - including demands for money
Attacks on someone's reputation - for example by rumour, gossip, innuendo or ridicule
Is it possible that another individual is taking a case against your ex manager for bullying and you have changed your mind about your own situation on reflection? Or is bullying the new "in" thing to complain about?.


----------



## Rois (24 Nov 2008)

SlurrySlump said:


> You said to your HR manager that you were being discriminated against. Just looking at the list below of "what is bullying" I don't see the term "discrimination".
> 
> 
> Humiliation - including name-calling or teasing about doing well at school
> ...


 
I don't really know how to respond to this post and I haven't gone into the exact nature of the bullying in my previous posts as I don't feel it's necessary to provide such detail. But, it was enough to cause a nervous breakdown and serious ill-health. If it's of any help to you I can identify with 7 of your listed items.  I am not jumping on any bandwagon. Bullying can have a very serious effect on the victim and should not be taken lightly.


----------



## Rois (25 Nov 2008)

Many thanks posters for all your sound advice and it has been invaluable and I have taken it on board.  I have come to the decision not to look for any legal redress as I would just be re-opening old wounds and possibly a can of worms, financially and otherwise.  Though still upset at having lost the job today, I can manage and as Watersprite said be prepared for future jobs when references are requested. Many thanks again. I hope I can also be of help to you in the future on issues I am more familiar with.


----------



## ChristieA (4 Jan 2010)

Rois, I completely understand you wanting revenge and you were treated badly but you freely admit you made mistakes in dealing with the situation yourself. Think long and hard before you pursue it. It's not going to be a pleasant process. That said, it could be a wake-up call to the company and it might ensure they take future cases more seriously. Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## IsleOfMan (5 Jan 2010)

ChristieA said:


> Rois, I completely understand you wanting revenge and you were treated badly but you freely admit you made mistakes in dealing with the situation yourself. Think long and hard before you pursue it. It's not going to be a pleasant process. That said, it could be a wake-up call to the company and it might ensure they take future cases more seriously. Good luck with whatever you decide.


 
I don't understand why you are ressurecting a 2008 post? And as for BONDGIRL, Wow that's been lying dormant, hasn't it?   Just goes to show that some stuff stays on the shelf. Do we ever get closure?


----------

