# When do you become a non-resident landlord?



## Don_08 (7 Jun 2012)

Leaving the country on 6 July. House will be rented out from 1 July. 

Unlikely to be back for a few years. 

Husband has been resident abroad since nov 11. Joint owners of property. 

Am I correct to just complete PAYE form 12 for 2012, and from 2013 we will be non- resident landlords? 

When does the agent have to be in place from?


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## facetious (9 Jun 2012)

You are required by law to provide the tenants with an address/phone number should they require repairs/servicing or have problems with the property and for emergencies.

If you are non-resident in the state, the tenant should retain 20% of the rent and pay it directly to the Revenue unless you have an agent (either letting agent or a relative/friend). to complete and pay the taxes.

Remember that the tenants acquire Part 4 tenancy rights once they have been in occupation for 6 months. With a part 4 tenancy, the landlord can evict the tenant if he requires the property for his own use, by giving the tenant the required notice period (and in the prescribed format) which depends on how long the tenant has been in occupation (e.g. 2 - 3 years requires 56 days notice).

If you have a fixed term lease, you will have to wait until the end of the fixed term before you can regain possession (and deal with the tenants rights under a Part 4 tenancy which runs concurrently with the fixed term after 6 months occupation (as above).

You will have to pay: NPPR charge, Household charge (or the new charge to replace the household charge), landlord's insurance etc.

You should organise someone to handle the deposit should the tenant wish to leave at any stage, if you are not in the country.

Ideally, the agent/named person should be in place when the lease is drawn up and their name and details included in the lease.


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## Don_08 (12 Jun 2012)

Yes I understand all that and we are letting through a letting agent so they will be the contact for day to day stuff. 

What I am referring to is the "agent" for tax purposes. Effectively in 2012 I will not be non-resident for tax purposes as will have 6 months PAYE paid and in the country for 180 days. So do I need the "agent " for my 2012 tax return or effective from 1 jan 2013.


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## facetious (17 Jun 2012)

Normally, a *good *letting agent will look after this and pay the tax to the revenue.


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## oldnick (17 Jun 2012)

Is there any Revenue penalty or comeback to the overseas landlord if the tenant/agent has negelected to deduct the 20% ?

If no, then surely the landlord doesn't really want a "good" agent who'll cost him 20% extra. Frankly, if I was living abroad I'd hardly remind the tenant/agent to deduct 20% -unless there is a legal obligation on the landlord.  Is there?


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2012)

I live abroad and do not have an agent and no 20% deduction (I do pay for collection of rent and organising repairs etc - OP should definitely have someone hired to do this).  

No way would it be a good idea for OP to allow tenant to keep the 20% or give the job to an agent to handle this money.  

As long as OP does his tax returns each year then he shouldn't run into any bother with revenue.  Might be a good idea to hire an accountant for at least the first two years.  In any case a good accountant will make sure you are doing everything correctly and may point out deductions that you don't know about.  Plus it's getting ever more complex with the new taxes and universal social charge etc.


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2012)

facetious said:


> Normally, a *good *letting agent will look after this and pay the tax to the revenue.


 
Problem is it's near impossible to find a good letting agent.


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## Bronte (18 Jun 2012)

oldnick said:


> -unless there is a legal obligation on the landlord. Is there?


 

Revenue rules do state the 20% deduction.  But revenue know full well that if tenant's hold back this money the landlord will never see it.  So they don't tend to enforce this rule.


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## facetious (18 Jun 2012)

Bronte said:


> Problem is it's near impossible to find a good letting agent.


Hence, in my original post, the word "good" was in bold!

I can't find the exact revenue law regarding the 20% but it is there somewhere. 

See also this link, though very old. 
*Revenue Commissioners Non-Resident Landlords - Tax Deductions*

 [broken link removed]


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## g05l (19 Jun 2012)

Bronte said:


> I live abroad and do not have an agent and no 20% deduction (I do pay for collection of rent and organising repairs etc - OP should definitely have someone hired to do this).


 
I own property in Ireland, plan to move abroad for work reasons.

I also plan to rent out the property, however the mentioned ''idea'' of 20% being withheld by the tenant doesn't appeal to me at all.

I would be happy when mortgage is paid (even if I have to add a bit extra every month), then I would file a tax return by the 31st Oct of the following year and pay/file my tax return with Revenue, if the tax return shows that I owe tax, I will pay it, if it shows I do not owe tax, I wouldn't pay it. But the 20% being withheld by tenant, oh no no, no thank you.

Tenant can pay directly to my Irish (AIB, Ulster Bank, BOI, Permanent TSB) bank account, therefore I don't think collecting agent would be that much necassary. 

I do believe that someone would be needed to maintain gaps in tenancy, to arrange the cleaning, re-advertsing, etc, perhaps handy-man for repairs.

I like Bronte's approach.


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## g05l (19 Jun 2012)

oldnick said:


> Is there any Revenue penalty or comeback to the overseas landlord if the tenant/agent has negelected to deduct the 20% ?
> 
> If no, then surely the landlord doesn't really want a "good" agent who'll cost him 20% extra. Frankly, if I was living abroad I'd hardly remind the tenant/agent to deduct 20% -unless there is a legal obligation on the landlord. Is there?


 
What do you mean when saying: ... agent who'll cost him 20%extra?

Do you mean that the 20% is not recoverable at all?

Can someone confirm this?

Is Revenue taking advantage of the people who moved out of the country and charges them 20% on the properties (anyway overpriced already) for not being here in Ireland and for not paying taxes here?

This is insane.


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## asdfg (19 Jun 2012)

The 20% Deducted is held by revenue and offset against any liability when return is made


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## g05l (20 Jun 2012)

if you keep silent and do not inform revenue and just keep going, i.e. rent the property, get the rental income paid into your bank account, move abroad, earn money/living abroad, file irish tax return once a year, pay tax here, what's the problem?


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## WindUp (20 Jun 2012)

As far as I am aware, the onus is on the tenant to deduct the 20%; If they dont it doesnt affect the landlord

open to correction here,,,,,,


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