# Have the Banks gone past the point of no return



## roker (27 Sep 2020)

Years ago the banks started computerising their systems with the object of saving money.
They reduced the amount of cashier windows in their branches and made us all use online banking printing our own documents and doing all the things the bank staff used to do.
They did not count on the fact that hackers a scammers were getting more sophisticated, and had to refund customers for scams and update their IT system. The BOI has just informed customers that security is being up dated with yet more complication to use their system
They have gone beyond the point of no return, they cannot let the hacker win.
Also if  a person uses more than one bank, the online software and security to enter the account is different for each bank which it takes time to familiarise navigate and carry out a task


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## joe sod (27 Sep 2020)

roker said:


> Also if a person uses more than one bank, the online software and security to enter the account is different for each bank which it takes time to familiarise navigate and carry out a task


if they all used the same security system surely it would be a bonanza for hackers , they would just have to figure a way around that system. Its very easy to be kicking the banks because of cumbersome IT systems but you have to remember that banks have been around for a long time they have been computerised to some extent since the 1970s so it is genuinely complicated. The Y2K was a serious issue back in 2000 and there would have been a huge problem if it had not been dealt with properly  back then.
Of course it would have been much easier for the banks if they never computerised in the 70s, never adopted ATM machines in the 80s and stuck with paper systems up to maybe 2010 and then  jumped straight into internet banking with no legacy issues.


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## Jim2007 (27 Sep 2020)

roker said:


> They reduced the amount of cashier windows in their branches and made us all use online banking printing our own documents and doing all the things the bank staff used to do.



Are you willing to pay the extra costs involved in operating such a network?



roker said:


> They did not count on the fact that hackers a scammers were getting more sophisticated, and had to refund customers for scams and update their IT system. The BOI has just informed customers that security is being up dated with yet more complication to use their system
> They have gone beyond the point of no return, *they cannot let the hacker win*.



Of course we count on the hackers getting more sophisticated, it's very obvious to us all.... and why would we let the hacker win, do you want us to let hacker have your cash and personal details????



roker said:


> Also if  a person uses more than one bank, the online software and security to enter the account is different for each bank which it takes time to familiarise navigate and carry out a task



So you prefer that once a hacker manages to break into one of your accounts, they should be able to access them all?????

A very strange post, first time I've heard someone compiling that we're not make it easy enough for the hacker.


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## roker (27 Sep 2020)

Jim2007 said:


> Are you willing to pay the extra costs involved in operating such a network?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if we had not gone down the road of online banking, there would be no hackers


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## Drakon (28 Sep 2020)

Online banking enables and facilitates eCommerce.  You cannot have one without the other.


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## New2This (28 Sep 2020)

roker said:


> if we had not gone down the road of online banking, there would be no hackers



So you think there was no fraud (hackers) before online banking? Why don't you look up Frank Abagnale and how much fun he had defrauding cashier and paper systems.

The simple fact is the weakest link in most security systems is the human element, even the recent fraud that hit BOI customers shows that. While it was admittedly very sophisticated, if customers followed the ongoing and continuous guidance of the bank and didn't share their full log-in details the fraudsters would not have been able to access their accounts.

That's not to say the technology can't be exploited or hacked, but that is usually much harder and more time consuming to do (in spite of how movies and tv shows depict it).

I hardly think the banks should be blamed for the existence of criminals or that we should let the risks posed by them stop society in general from progressing.


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## Jim2007 (28 Sep 2020)

roker said:


> if we had not gone down the road of online banking, there would be no hackers



Better yet, the sure way to get shot of all hackers - is close your account and get off the internet.  At this stage you are on your own


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## Ryan (29 Sep 2020)

Yes I think so. My online banking is now so complicated to log in to I rarely use it. I’m 29 and I work for a tech company, can’t imagine trying to show an older person how to use it.


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## Leper (29 Sep 2020)

No matter what system is in place you'll find those able to circumvent it. Technology helps scammers. But, you've got to have that crooked thinking first. Before mass computerisation there were  intelligent con men working wherever there was money coming over the counter.

Stories of public/civil servants, bank officials/managers taking the wrong side of the law for greed abounded. Usually, those caught got away with being just fired but some cases got to court.


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## Coldwarrior (29 Sep 2020)

Ryan said:


> Yes I think so. My online banking is now so complicated to log in to I rarely use it. I’m 29 and I work for a tech company, can’t imagine trying to show an older person how to use it.


Which bank are you with out of curiosity?


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## roker (29 Sep 2020)

Ryan said:


> Yes I think so. My online banking is now so complicated to log in to I rarely use it. I’m 29 and I work for a tech company, can’t imagine trying to show an older person how to use it.


I am with 3 separate banks (one is UK) and 77 yrs old, all different ways of getting in and once in different to navigate


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## money_man (3 Oct 2020)

roker said:


> if we had not gone down the road of online banking, there would be no hackers


The benefits far outweigh the downsides. Access to services is much cheaper and easier today than ever before


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## Jim2007 (3 Oct 2020)

Ryan said:


> Yes I think so. My online banking is now so complicated to log in to I rarely use it. I’m 29 and I work for a tech company, can’t imagine trying to show an older person how to use it.



My 92 year old mother-in-law does all her banking on line, I don’t think she has been in a bank in years.  And with recent events she is now into scanning her stuff at the self service in the super market and using contactless payment.  My daughter took her shopping the first couple of times until she got the hang of it.


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## joe sod (4 Oct 2020)

roker said:


> I am with 3 separate banks (one is UK) and 77 yrs old, all different ways of getting in and once in different to navigate


I'd be worried about that bank that is only 77 yrs old, that means it wasn't around for the great depression. I want a bank that has a proven record and survived the great depression.


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## roker (5 Oct 2020)

just to clarify, I'm sure you are being smart, I am 77 yrs of age


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## roker (5 Oct 2020)

another facility being taken away, the machine that print out the mini statement at BOI are being discontinued,
I use this to check my recent transaction save going on line each time.
why can they not do the same as PTSB and combine the 2 machines, statements and cash together?


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## Purple (5 Oct 2020)

roker said:


> another facility being taken away, the machine that print out the mini statement at BOI are being discontinued,
> I use this to check my recent transaction save going on line each time.
> why can they not do the same as PTSB and combine the 2 machines, statements and cash together?


How is it faster to go to a bank and print out a mini statement rather than look online?
Is the problem that you find it difficult to fill your day?


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## roker (7 Oct 2020)

Purple said:


> How is it faster to go to a bank and print out a mini statement rather than look online?
> Is the problem that you find it difficult to fill your day?


I pass it every day and it's much safer than going online.
Sometime it takes 1/2 hr plus to boot my computer either my virus system has to update or Windows has to update


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## Purple (7 Oct 2020)

roker said:


> I pass it every day and it's much safer than going online


How is it much safer than going online?
Your Bank stores all your records digitally anyway so they can still be hacked.

Your phone is in your pocket and you can access it while taking a dump, just like everyone else (except me of course, I'd never do such a thing).


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## roker (7 Oct 2020)

which brings us back to my first point


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## Ryan (9 Oct 2020)

Coldwarrior said:


> Which bank are you with out of curiosity?


Im with KBC


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## MugsGame (9 Oct 2020)

Purple said:


> Your phone is in your pocket and you can access it while taking a dump, just like everyone else



Purple reported for shitposting.


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## roker (9 Oct 2020)

Jim2007 said:


> Are you willing to pay the extra costs involved in operating such a network?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


having the same software in different banks does not help the hackers because they will all have different password and memorial data


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## tomdublin (18 Oct 2020)

roker said:


> I pass it every day and it's much safer than going online.
> Sometime it takes 1/2 hr plus to boot my computer either my virus system has to update or Windows has to update


You need a new computer!


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## roker (18 Oct 2020)

tomdublin said:


> You need a new computer!


I take it your Windows doesn't update


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## New2This (20 Oct 2020)

If the only time you turn on your computer is once a month then of course you will have windows and virus definition updates, this is a good thing it removes known vulnerabilities from your system to make it safer for you to go online. They don't happen everyday and if you use your mobile generally install overnight when you aren't using your phone.

You mentioned earlier that you think all banks should have the exact same system and exact same user experience. I for 1 am glad that they don't, if they did it would be much easier for hackers to hack and create convincing duplicates. Also when those kind of thing are enforced instead of innovation and progress we get help back to the level of the slowest, least innovative worst system.

Let's be very clear there is a difference between hackers and scammers

*Hackers* find an issue in the system and use that to gain access to you account, this might be out of date virus definitions that allow malware etc to corrupt the system. It could be an operating system vulnerability, it could be a data connection vulnerability or servers not being encrypted as examples. Organisations spend millions in ensuring the have implemented the best processes and design the software to minimise risk. They aren't perfect and mistakes get made which is what gives the hackers opportunity.
*Scammers* uses various techniques to gain access to the information that is provided to you for use in legitimate access. Phishing which is what was used by the scammers in the BOI breach, there is nothing beyond education that any organisation can do to prevent this as the account holders gave their details away.
Both exist regardless of the systems and processes that are being used, so stopping the used of technology doesn't actually reduce risk. In fact technology helps reduce the risk.


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## roker (13 Nov 2020)

There's a lot if negative contents, once past the log process there is no reason why the systems cannot be to some extent standardised after logging in for looking up statement etc.
in fact the BOi system is no where near as secure logging in as my UK TSB system.
Remember when BOI system was shutdown for weeks, they are updating their system again in a couple of weeks, for me more complications on how to use the 3 banking system that I use


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## MugsGame (13 Nov 2020)

I work in IT designing critical global infrastructure.

There is every reason why Irish banks should not all use the same systems. Diverse sourcing and implementation improves security and reliability.


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## MugsGame (13 Nov 2020)

On another note, all my Windows computers boot in seconds - maybe 30 seconds if a full reboot applying an update. 

If you don't have an SSD in yours, you should look into getting one.


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## roker (13 Nov 2020)

MugsGame said:


> I work in IT designing critical global infrastructure.
> 
> There is every reason why Irish banks should not all use the same systems. Diverse sourcing and implementation improves security and reliability.


we would be in a chaotic situation if Microsoft took that approach,  in fact they managed to standardise most of the world's computers, so when you were trained on Windows you could go anywhere. 
to clarify, my computer normally boots Ok but I do not use it every day and a lot of the time the antivirus and Windows update which takes about half hour


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