# Changing Accountants



## luain (1 Jul 2011)

I'm thinking of changing my accountant ( small manufacturer €1 mill turn over ) does anyone have any lessons learnt from this? I was told that the new accountant normally blames the previous one when a problem arises from historic accounts.


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## thetaxguy (1 Jul 2011)

luain said:


> I'm thinking of changing my accountant ( small manufacturer €1 mill turn over ) does anyone have any lessons learnt from this? *I was told that the new accountant normally blames the previous one when a problem arises from historic accounts*.


 
thats not an accounting issue that's a human nature issue.


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## joanj (1 Jul 2011)

luain, just to let you know that changing accountants will more than likely draw a vat inspection on you.I know from experience.


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2011)

joanj said:


> luain, just to let you know that changing accountants will more than likely draw a vat inspection on you.I know from experience.



That is completely untrue and if someone told you this then they lied to you basically.

Roughly 90% of Revenue audits are as a result of Revenue's REAP system, which identifies taxpayers with possible issues with their tax returns and/or discrepancies from one return to the next

The other 10% of audits are selected on a random basis and these are all full tax audits not focusing on any one particular tax.

There is NO SUCH THING as a random VAT or PAYE/PRSI audit any more. 100% of VAT audits are from the REAP system and a change of accountant will not result in a Revenue audit.


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## DB74 (1 Jul 2011)

luain said:


> I'm thinking of changing my accountant ( small manufacturer €1 mill turn over ) does anyone have any lessons learnt from this? I was told that the new accountant normally blames the previous one when a problem arises from historic accounts.



If a problem arises with historic accounts, how could this be the new accountant's problem?


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## Paddy199 (1 Jul 2011)

DB74 said:


> If a problem arises with historic accounts, how could this be the new accountant's problem?


 
Too true! Such a statement.


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## J.Ryan (1 Jul 2011)

luain said:


> I'm thinking of changing my accountant ( small manufacturer €1 mill turn over ) does anyone have any lessons learnt from this? I was told that the new accountant normally blames the previous one when a problem arises from historic accounts.


 

Why are you thinking of changing?

Price, Level of Service or Personality conflict?


That should be the starting point,  if Price or Level of Service is the issue, talk to your accountant, you should be able to resolve this.


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## joanj (1 Jul 2011)

DB74.I did not say it would definately draw a vat inspection on you if you change accountants but more than likely.I myself had one and 3 other small business owners that I know had vat inspections in the last 18months.We had all just changed accountantants shortly before we got notice of inspection.We did not have the same accountant.It is possible that its a coinsidence.Doubt it though.


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## mandelbrot (1 Jul 2011)

joanj said:


> DB74.I did not say it would definately draw a vat inspection on you if you change accountants but more than likely.I myself had one and 3 other small business owners that I know had vat inspections in the last 18months.We had all just changed accountantants shortly before we got notice of inspection.We did not have the same accountant.It is possible that its a coinsidence.Doubt it though.



It has to have been a coincidence, or for some other reason that you all had in common, besides having changed accountant... (e.g. a habit of submitting returns late, not completing the E1/E2 boxes for intra-EU acquisitions, a poorly completed accounts panel on Form 11 / CT1 etc...)

Changing accountant does *NOT* draw a VAT audit on the taxpayer, it can't, for exactly the reasons DB74 outlined.


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## Paddy199 (4 Jul 2011)

I did read somewhere in the last year or so that Revenue are now ranking tax agents, based on their client list make up. And if you are a client of a negative ranking tax agent (poor ranking gained from other clients in their client list), you could end up with a higher risk of an Audit than if you were with a positive ranking tax agent. Maybe someone here knows something a bit more about it?


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## luain (4 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the feed-back, may be my original question should have been;
 "Changing Accountants is it worth the hassel?"


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## Niall M (4 Jul 2011)

Yes it is if you feel you are not getting the service you are paying for. Also, changing accountants will NOT give rise to a revenue audit. There are plenty of quality accountants out there who charge a reasonable rate.


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## mandelbrot (4 Jul 2011)

Paddy199 said:


> I did read somewhere in the last year or so that Revenue are now ranking tax agents, based on their client list make up. And if you are a client of a negative ranking tax agent (poor ranking gained from other clients in their client list), you could end up with a higher risk of an Audit than if you were with a positive ranking tax agent. Maybe someone here knows something a bit more about it?


 
Thats definitely not the case, although one could argue there would be some logic to ranking agents, or incorporating the (perceived) risk of the agent into the evaluation of the risk of an individual taxpayer... Anyone who works in the profession will know that, just as with life in general, some agents will chance their arm and continue to do so come what may, and others will be straight as an arrow.

In fact AFAIK the ITI have quite vigorously argued against Revenue adopting any such approach. I don't actually know why but I'd imagine the reasons being that any means of ranking agents would arguably be subjective and therefore prone to bias, and could therefore facilitate Revenue in targeting specific agents and effectively force them out of business by auditing them to death etc... again this is an argument that has validity too, and up to now at least, has won out.

The problem is that there isn't really proper regulation; anyone can get themselves a TAIN and just start acting as an agent, regardless of qualifications or lack thereof, or criminal record. I know at least one accountant with plenty of clients, who has been to prison for forgery and/or fraud (up around your neck of the woods actually Paddy..?!) But the point is, given that it is common knowledge that this man defrauded money from his own clients in the past, why would anyone avail of his services? Because he tells them he knows every trick in the book to keep their tax bill down, and that's all they care about - birds of a feather flock together... they'll happily risk being fleeced by him in order to get one over on the tax man!

A good starting point in attaching a measure of risk to an agent, from Revenue's point of view, would be to establish what, if any, regulatory body they are a member of (ACA, ACCA, CPA, AITI etc...), and if they aren't subject to professional regulation then they pose a greater risk - that is just common sense and one would imagine should have the support of the Institutes, as it biases in their favour!


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## DB74 (4 Jul 2011)

Very well said mandelbrot and it shouldn't stop there either.

We recently completed an audit for a new client and when I tried to get the prior year records from the previous auditor, the auditor didn't exist. The person who completed the accounts had used a totally ficticious name and address and submitted "audited" accounts using this information. I even contacted a different accountant in the same town that they claimed to be from and they had never heard of them. Apparently it's a common occurrence, people signing false audit reports . That is part of the reason why, on CORE, you now have to state the auditor name and the CRO now contact you to confirm that you did in fact audit the company.


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## Joe_90 (4 Jul 2011)

Well,

It was a strange system that the CRO did not check that the auditors were on a list of registered auditors.  I know that the name of the auditor and their registration number has to be put on the B1 now.  

Are the CRO now even going to the trouble of contacting the audit aswell?


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## dermotk (5 Jul 2011)

Changing accountants is no hassle, and is very important if you are not happy. The relationship will be a long one!
Meet a few others. Get your quotes. Get satisfaction, or move again.


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