# ESB strike - what about other suppliers



## DaveD (26 Nov 2013)

This may be a silly question but if "ESB workers" as they are described in the media go on strike does this effect customers of other suppliers? I get my electricity from Bord Gais but obviously use ESB Networks for the infrastructure. Newspapers report many small companies saying they will change supplier so this would imply that ESB Networks will not be part of the strike action, or does it? 

If ESB staff strike do I lose power?


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## 44brendan (26 Nov 2013)

ESB still controls the Grid. Other suppliers are only "middle men". Answer to your question is YES!


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## Leo (26 Nov 2013)

Expanding on 44brendan's point, ESB Networks provide the local distribution infrastructure to every electricity customer in the country. They in turn get this electricity from Eirgrid who run the national high voltage infrastructure. 

So, it all depends on what section of ESB go on strike, and to what extent they do so, but it will affect customers of all suppliers equally.


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## pudds (26 Nov 2013)

Brendan Ogle will get you where ever you hide.



> *SWITCHING energy suppliers will not spare customers from  the potential of blackouts, the head of the ESB group of unions has  said.
> *
> 
> Brendan Ogle warned that moving companies "won't make a blind bit of difference" should industrial action lead to power outages.
> ...




http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ting-your-power-esb-union-chief-29783768.html


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## Time (26 Nov 2013)

I can't see there being any strike. It is a just a game of brinkmanship.


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## theresa1 (26 Nov 2013)

Retail Excellence Ireland lack of understanding how Electricity is distributed around the Country has me worried.


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## seantheman (26 Nov 2013)

theresa1 said:


> Retail Excellence Ireland lack of understanding how Electricity is distributed around the Country has me worried.


 
REI know exactly how electricity is distributed.Their threat is for members to exodus ESB en masse in the New Year should strikes go ahead pre Xmas.This threat,if carried through would severely damage ESB profitability and as a result job security within the ESB. REI understand that moving to a competitor wont guarantee supply but to ask their members to quit ESB in the New Year should at least make union bosses sit up and think.


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## Delboy (26 Nov 2013)

Time said:


> I can't see there being any strike. It is a just a game of brinkmanship.



This....Gov't will cave in and the Labour Court or the like will get a 'fudge' agreed between both sides with the taxpayer eventually footing the bill


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## DaveD (27 Nov 2013)

Just as I suspected then, best ask Santa for some old fashioned candles seeing as all my batteries are rechargeable!


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## Sunny (27 Nov 2013)

Just make it illegal for the distribution of electricity to be disrupted by industrial action. If it disrupted, Brendan Ogle should be jailed and the union fined. We don't allow our guards to strike so why do we allow these people?


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## Purple (27 Nov 2013)

Sunny said:


> Just make it illegal for the distribution of electricity to be disrupted by industrial action. If it disrupted, Brendan Ogle should be jailed and the union fined. We don't allow our guards to strike so why do we allow these people?



Critical infrastructure services, especially if they are monopolies, should not be allowed to be disrupted by strike action.


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## ashambles (27 Nov 2013)

He expects to call or threaten a strike, get some concession (or more likely in this case a "clarification"), then return to the status quo. But once there's even a bit of competition like in ESB a union leader can't guarantee a return to the status quo after annoying customers. 

I'd guess with the help of the REI he'll eventually figure this out and will shortly be in talks where someone painstakingly clarifies the ESB pension to him. 

Ultimately Ogle will only speed up ESB's break up and privatization so he may be doing some good despite himself.


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## Deiseblue (27 Nov 2013)

Delboy said:


> This....Gov't will cave in and the Labour Court or the like will get a 'fudge' agreed between both sides with the taxpayer eventually footing the bill



I have heard from union colleagues that ESB may bring changes to the table tomorrow , whether such changes are substantive enough to progress matters remains to be seen.

From a personal viewpoint I am hugely relieved that Labour form part of the Government as they continue to support the right to organise & the right to strike , FG on their own may not have held the same viewpoint.


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## Gerry Canning (27 Nov 2013)

ashambles said:


> He expects to call or threaten a strike, get some concession (or more likely in this case a "clarification"), then return to the status quo. But once there's even a bit of competition like in ESB a union leader can't guarantee a return to the status quo after annoying customers.
> 
> I'd guess with the help of the REI he'll eventually figure this out and will shortly be in talks where someone painstakingly clarifies the ESB pension to him.
> 
> Ultimately Ogle will only speed up ESB's break up and privatization so he may be doing some good despite himself.


 ...........................................................................................................
Steady on folks!.
1. Is it a case that ESB pension has been changed from a Defined Benefit to a Defined Contribution?
2. Does that now mean that an ESB worker is NOT NOW guaranteed the Benefits he/she has worked and paid for?
3. We hear all the time that things cant change because of contractural arrangements.particularly with high profile people.Yet now management changes things for Joe Soap?
4. I understand ESB workers rely totally on their (guaranteed) pension.
5. They will NOT get a State Pension. 

I ask you how would you react if someone decided to change your Pension Fund?
I ask are ESB workers not entitled to rely on their pension to be honoured?

If this change was NOT agreed , then are ANY OF OUR PENSION POTS safe?

What am I missing?


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## ashambles (27 Nov 2013)

The ESB through its customers heavily funds this pension, I'd not mind if my fund was DC or DB if I was getting ESB levels of funding. If I only intended to work there for say 10 years my preference would be heavily for a DC fund - with the customer in chipping most of it naturally.



> 1. Is it a case that ESB pension has been changed from a Defined Benefit to a Defined Contribution?


Only partially.


> 2. Does that now mean that an ESB worker is NOT NOW guaranteed the Benefits he/she has worked and paid for?


No, any pre-existing funding goes to DB - it's totally normal for DB to move to DC, happened all over the place, even the banks. 


> 3. We hear all the time that things cant change because of contractural arrangements.particularly with high profile people.Yet now management changes things for Joe Soap?


Pensions change including for management. 


> 4. I understand ESB workers rely totally on their (guaranteed) pension.


How does that differ from anyone else?


> 5. They will NOT get a State Pension.


This (I'm assuming) is because they were not paying PRSI. Not paying PRSI and not getting a state pension when you're getting a semi-state pension is a deal I'd take if offered to me. Portraying not getting a state pension in this case as a bad thing is ludicrous. If you offered to reduce their pension by 12k and tell them to take the state pension at 68 like everyone else you'd really have a strike.


> If this change was NOT agreed , then are ANY OF OUR PENSION POTS safe?


They're not safe - the government is taking the levy.


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## TarfHead (27 Nov 2013)

Gerry Canning said:


> I ask you how would you react if someone decided to change your Pension Fund?


 
This has already happened to me. I didn't threaten to strike. And if I did strike, it would not have had the profound impact on people that power cuts will.



Gerry Canning said:


> I ask are ESB workers not entitled to rely on their pension to be honoured?


 
'Entitlement' is one of those terms that means something different to whoever says and/or hears it. Pension funds worldwide are carrying deficits. DB pensions funds worldwide are either shutting down or moving to a partial DC partial DB scheme.

What ESB workers have to face up to and provide for is no different to what many others have already had to do, without bullying innocent parties. And given the reported levels of remuneration, they are better placed to deal with it than most.


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## Delboy (27 Nov 2013)

Deiseblue said:


> From a personal viewpoint I am hugely relieved that Labour form part of the Government as they continue to support the right to organise & the right to strike , FG on their own may not have held the same viewpoint.



Well, lets see how you feel when your without power for a few days.
Or when Google/Facebook/Intel announce next year they're pulling out of this country because electricity is not guaranteed.
Or when people die because operations were put off/accidents occur as a result of the outages.

The right to strike in a critical utility service that the entire country depends upon  where the average wage is over 75k and pensions can be up to 66% of final salary....Big Jim fought for that all right!


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## Deiseblue (27 Nov 2013)

Delboy said:


> Well, lets see how you feel when your without power for a few days.
> Or when Google/Facebook/Intel announce next year they're pulling out of this country because electricity is not guaranteed.
> Or when people die because operations were put off/accidents occur as a result of the outages.
> 
> The right to strike in a critical utility service that the entire country depends upon  where the average wage is over 75k and pensions can be up to 66% of final salary....Big Jim fought for that all right!



I think we are at cross purposes here , I totally agree with you - there will be no strike - a compromise will be arrived at as the thought of an ESB strike in the current climate is not something anyone wants - hopefully the threat of such a strike will be sufficient to force the ESB back to the table .

Oh & I think that Jim Larkin would be thrilled to see ESB employees earning excellent wages in a profitable semi state body & would have every sympathy with them in their battle to ensure that their DB benefits are safeguarded.


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## Leo (27 Nov 2013)

We're straying from the topic here. If anyone wants a discussion on the merits or otherwise of the proposed action, please start a new thread.


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## TarfHead (27 Nov 2013)

> .. but there is little doubt the withdrawal of REI members would severely impact on Electric Ireland's profits next year.


 
And if/when their profits fall, they'll increase their prices, both wholesale and retail. So we'll all pay for it.


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## delgirl (2 Dec 2013)

*From the Sunday Independent's 'Your Money Section'*

If you're a customer of Electric Ireland and you're so annoyed about the ESB strike threat - switch to another provider.

You'll bag a €50 Tesco Gift Card by switching to Board Gais for your electricity by December 8th.

This will not only save you €50 off your Christmas shopping bill, it should also save you a few bob on your electricity bills over the next year.

As long as you sign up to Bord Gais's paperless billing and Level Pay Plan - where you pay a fixed monthly bill by direct debit each month - you will get a 10% discount off Bord Gais's standard electricity unit rates.

Be sure your electricity bills will work out cheaper with Bord Gais. 

To be eligible for the Tesco Gift Card, you must be a new Bord Gais electricity customer and sign up online or over the phone.


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