# Carbon Neutral by 2013 - To Sustain Ireland or the Greens in Government?



## onq (7 Mar 2010)

The Minister's requirement is "All Dwellings to be Carbon Neutral by 2013".
http://www.independent.ie/national-...-must--be-carbon-neutral-by-2013-1438627.html
In my opinion at the slow rate we're currently building and disseminating information this is not on.

Expecting the burden for upgrading homes less than five years old which were certified as compliant with the building regulations when completed to be carried by purchasers who are already under pressure financially and in negative equity is not on.

From the article above:

_"There is also the issue of the increased costs. Experts believe the cost of upgrading a home to the 40pc more efficient standard currently in place can add up to 10pc to the cost of building. A carbon neutral house is likely to cost significantly more, but over the long-term residents will pay much lower fuel bills."_

In the boom, such increased costs might have seen sustainable for a limited time, not now.

The percentage of new homes to be built before 2013 will be a fraction of what we've built in the noughties, so even if they are perfect examplars of the craft they will make very little difference in terms of energy saved.

Retrofitting is the only way to hugely improve matters, but who has the money today, even with the grants, to upgrade their homes?

Most of the current incumbents in Government have a deep disconnect with what Irish society is going through at the moment - they show neither the imagination nor the will do address these issues and I see scant signs of intelligent life in the opposition or the independents.

We have two hundred miles of easily accessible continental shelf on which to mount wind and wave power projects which could power half of northern Europe and what are we doing about it - nothing.

It is clear that the government has a role to play by investing in Deep Geothermal heating systems technology to achieve sustainable ways of heating our homes right into the next millennium and what are we doing about it - nothing.

The government will duck this responsibility as they have so much else, since all the current incumbents are doing is dealing for gas and electricity from Britain and Russia.

While Jeff Colley and Eamon Ryan have developed a sound strategy for financing retrofitting over time through utilities bills, this is of little use to people who cannot pay their bills at their existing level.

The government, greens included, need to stop peddling power words and phrases and "bright ideas" while expecting people who are on their knees to go out  tomorrow and improve houses that were legally built in compliance only yesterday, and for which many paid through the nose and are now in negative equity.

They want us to put MORE money into our houses in THIS recession, when many people are ALREADY IN NEGATIVE EQUITY? I. Don't. Think. So.

There is only one issue at the moment, and its not pursuing an expensive Green Agenda by 2013 that Europe won't fulfil until years later.

The issue isn't "getting the Greens re-elected".

_*"ITS THE ECONOMY, STUPID!"*_

I cannot say it plainer than that.

Get that right first, or we won't have to worry about the cost of heating our homes - we'll all be renting - and ranting.

ONQ.

PS Referred to the Mods - please feel free to relocate to another Forum if required


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## forgotten (7 Mar 2010)

is carbon neutral the same as passive house standard?


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## onq (7 Mar 2010)

Nope, 'fraid not..

Passive house
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house
[broken link removed]

Carbon Neutral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_neutrality

Also there are Carbon Zero, Zero Energy and Energy Plus buildings.
As you can see Carbon Neutral goes beyond merely conserving energy.

In considering the carbon produced people have started to think about embedded energy.
Carbon is produced along the way in most processes leading to energy production.
Wind and Wave power require a lot of energy to make, transport, place the devices and power transmission systems plus maintenance costs, decommissioning costs, demolition and recycling costs.
Hydro-electric power is produced by damming a river, but it requires a lot of energy to make, transport, mix and place the concrete in the dam.
Nuclear power sources require a lot of energy to mine, transport, refine, machine and install the uranium PLUS the construction costs of the reactors, cooling towers and the decommissioning and storage costs lager on.

Then there's the associated costs of occupancy associated with transportation and sewage disposal, heating [yes there is still some required] lighting, phone, internet and security systems.
Then there's the specialist items we use to enjoy our standard of living - white goods, phones, T.V.'s, digital cameras, radios, computers, etc.

Probably the lowest embedded energy buildings are log cabins half embedded in earthen banks dug by hand with reed bed sewage filtration systems.
But unless you're a total hick you'll expect glass windows and glass, while its recyclable, needs a lot of energy  during the production process.
Earthen homes aren't really that well insulated or dry and furniture hand made using a piece of flint leave splinters in your bottom.

So there is a balance to be struck.
Change can be achieved over time, but Minister Gormley needs it done by 2013.

ONQ.


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## Brigid (12 Mar 2010)

I think that everyone would have to agree with the sentiments and content of this posting but without wanting to sound defeatist, one has to ask what on  earth can be done about it?  Short of changing not just the politicians but the whole political system I cant see how anything will change! While it is satisfying to articulate ones frustrations it is better to see them channeled into something that will actually succeed in bettering the situation. I would be interested in hearing any suggestions....David MacWilliams is talking about a new political party but is this just wistful thinking or is there something in the pipeline one wonders..,


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## z101 (12 Mar 2010)

McWialliams has a bee in his bonnet thats personel. He has become ming the merciless part 11. 
As for main post surely these regulation will come with workable guidlines??
I dont understand the retrofit part. Are you saying a house built to guidelines in 2009 or 10 will be required to refit in 2013? What BER rating is safe going into the future then?


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## Brigid (13 Mar 2010)

Ah hah Ceatharlach ... with a response like that you must be a loyal member of Fianna Fáil!!!


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## ajapale (13 Mar 2010)

Moved from  Sites,  planning, self-builds and extensions to The Great Financial Debates.

If the discussion develops into a rant or a "ding dong" political discussion it will be relegated to LOS.

aj
moderator


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## z101 (13 Mar 2010)

Brigid said:


> Ah hah Ceatharlach ... with a response like that you must be a loyal member of Fianna Fáil!!!


 
I am not a member of any political party and I used to have respect for David before he lost the run of himself.
Why does everything have to be black or white so as people can pigeon hole other people. I thought George W was gone... I am not for you or against you. I dont even know you. Please dont assume to know me.
I suggest sticking to the issue ONQ has taken the time to write about and remain carbon neutral on the assumptions.


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## Brigid (13 Mar 2010)

I am sorry, i was being light-hearted - or so I thought ... I considered refering to MacWilliams as Ming the Merciless part 11 was lighthearted and I was responding in kind.  I certainly did not mean to offend you - as you have correctly pointed out, you dont know me and you can safely be assured I don't assume to know you.  I very much appreciate the issues that ONQ has raised, my point is that I am not sure of the benefit of raising them in this forum.  If it is proposed legislation that is questionable than the only way to deal with the situation is by dealing with the legislators.  And by the way I am not a member of any political party either!


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