# Solicitors Fees associated with Fathers estate



## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

Hi All,

I am looking for some advice regarding the typical fee charged in relation to my recently deceased fathers estate. We recently met with my fathers solicitor where his will was filed and proceeded with the necessary steps to sort out his estate. He left a valid will with my mother being executrix and sole beneficiary and no one contesting the will. The estate was small - family home, bank a/c and post office savings and no debts associated with the estate. 

To make it as easy as possible we provided the solicitor with everything from PAYE details, death certificates, birth and marraige certs, bank and post account details, share certificates and house deeds. Foolishly at the time we did not enquiry about fees, however we have received a bill for E4,500 + 21.5% vat. The solicitor gave a break down of the fees 

- Valuing the assets as of the date of death - house valuation (e300)
- Completing an Inland Revenue Affidavit and having it certified by the Revenue Commissioners. 
-Lodging an application with the Probate Office for grant of probate.
- Probate fees (e195) and oath of commissioners fees(e150).


the above is a brief breakdown, but we are shocked with the fee charges as we would have thought the process was very straight forward and a simple task, bearing in mind very little tax work required and with everything left to our mother no inheritance tax implications.

The bulk of the estate was the family home valued at 275k and savings of approx 150k.


- Are we in a position to negoitate the above fee now ?

- Where in the process could we halt proceedings with the solicitor, I believe we have to sign doucementation for the Inland Revenue Affidavit, does this mean that the Grant of probate work will not be carried out yet, so we could negoitate a bill for completing the In Land Revenue work only?


- Can the family home be excluded from the estate valuation ?

- What are the implications if some savings in sole name of my father ? Majority of savings in joint name, is it necessary to obtain a grant of probate if savings in joint names ?

- Is it necessary to complete grant of probate, not sure if the family home is in joint names are in our fathers name only. Will this make a difference as my mother intends to live out the rest of her days there.


Many thanks and apologies for such a long thread, I suppose at the time of visiting the solicitor we should have done research, but believing it was a straight foward will, didn't think of th cost implications. 

Kind Regards


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## mathepac (4 Feb 2009)

It would appear that the solicitor has charged your mother approx. 1% of the value of the estate + outgoings + VAT, which to me seems excessive as based on the information given in your post, it sounds like an uncomplicated case (I'm not a lawyer).


bourke155 said:


> ... He left a valid will with my mother being executrix and sole beneficiary and no one contesting the will. The estate was small - family home, bank a/c and post office savings and no debts associated with the estate...


The only issues arising here would appear to be accounts / share certificates not held in joint names that might need to be transferred.

If the family home and the bulk of the accounts were in both your parents' names, an application for grant of probate might not even be necessary as to quote from the Revenue site "gifts and inheritances taken by one spouse from the other" are free of tax.

I don't understand the necessity for some of the outgoings as valuation of the house or even the estate as a whole is a non-issue.


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## MOB (4 Feb 2009)

"as valuation of the house or even the estate as a whole is a non-issue"

Well, it might well be a non issue.  But it could well be important, depending on individual circumstances.

It sounds to me like the 'bill' is more likely a 'Section 68' type fee estimate.  It would be strange indeed to be billed for a probate before the Inland Revenue Affidavit is filed.

The first question to be asked in a case like this is " is Probate necessary?"   For the joint savings, it isn't.  If the house is not going to be sold or otherwise dealt with in mother's lifetime, no necessity there.  If the accounts in sole name are small enough, bank(s) may release funds without requiring a grant of probate.

OP's mother is certainly free to ask solicitor to bill for work done to date, and to take the file elsewhere ( or try to deal with the matter without a solicitor). 

The fee of €4.5k does seem a bit high, but I am always wary when a case is described as being straightforward.  There can be aspects not immediately apparent which might well involve extra work and might well warrant the fee(s) involved.


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## TLC (4 Feb 2009)

My mother-in-law died a few years ago, the estate was just her house & a couple of small savings bonds - nothing complicated I must say.  The solicitor wanted to charge a fee of approx £900 plus associated charges (I know he had no control over them) plus 1% of the value of the estate.  I contacted the revenue commissioners & they gave us all the details for "doing it yourself" It turned out to be very easy - the local probate office detailed what we needed & were very helpful.  It saved us a fortune (not a fortune really but quite a hefty saving was made).  A solicitor is not always necessary when dealing with a straight forward estate.


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## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

mathepac said:


> It would appear that the solicitor has charged your mother approx. 1% of the value of the estate + outgoings + VAT, which to me seems excessive as based on the information given in your post, it sounds like an uncomplicated case (I'm not a lawyer).
> 
> The only issues arising here would appear to be accounts / share certificates not held in joint names that might need to be transferred.
> 
> ...


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## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

thanks for your helpful comments.... I agree solicitor is taking 1% of the value of the estate, I will definitely be asking for a more detailed break down of the charges and also negoitating the fee if possible.


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## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

MOB said:


> "as valuation of the house or even the estate as a whole is a non-issue"
> 
> Well, it might well be a non issue. But it could well be important, depending on individual circumstances.
> 
> ...


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## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MOB* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=799404#post799404 
_"as valuation of the house or even the estate as a whole is a non-issue"

Well, it might well be a non issue. But it could well be important, depending on individual circumstances.

It sounds to me like the 'bill' is more likely a 'Section 68' type fee estimate. It would be strange indeed to be billed for a probate before the Inland Revenue Affidavit is filed.
_

Thanks MOB for your very helpful comments-

Just to clarify Probate I don't believe has been worked on as we have to sign the In-Land Revenue Affidavit, before we can move forward.

If the family home is in my fathers sole name, is it necessary to transfer ownership to my mother. I believe on some of the sole savings accounts the amounts are above the banks thereshold for granting access to accounts without the 'grant of probate' completed.

How many hours work approx involved in completing the 'Grant of Probate' on a solicitors side..... Can honestly say this is avery straight forward case with no extra work involved. 
Once the fee sent out is one in a position to negoitate the fee ?  are look for a more detailed breakdown of the fees charged and the man hours involved. 

What is the typical hourly rate charged in a practice based in the west of ireland.

thanks again


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## MOB (4 Feb 2009)

"What is the typical hourly rate charged in a practice based in the west of ireland."

Most such practices do not use timesheets for billing.  

This is partly due to inertia and adherence to old-style billing practices, but also partly due to consumer demand. ( For example, most consumers expect a fixed fee quote on house purchases and sales.  Where those transactions go pear-shaped, most consumers have no willingness to pay for the extra work at anything like an appropriate rate.)   

I have no idea how this firm estimated its fee.  It sounds a little high.  But maybe there is more to it than is obvious to me or to OP.   Asking them to 'break it down' or justify it is likely to be met with a defensive response of 'that is what we charge'.   Better to just ask if it can be done for less.  If the response is that it can not, and if OP's mother is not happy to pay this, then she should simply move her business.


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## bourke155 (4 Feb 2009)

thanks again, will take your comments on board.


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## macflea (11 Feb 2009)

consider yourself lucky , got stung by a soliciter, for 30000 euros on 1million estate ,3.2% was a farm near limerick, was told by parent soliciters not to worry she would take of things , ask about cost , told it wouldnt be much could not give a costing , she would do probate as i wasnt soliciter .would like to  dispute it but what can i do, face having to sell land to pay for a silly mistake on my part. never again will i trust a soliciter.


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