# PRTB ruled in my favour, tenants in-situ but haven't engaged ... now what ?



## Setanta12 (23 Nov 2015)

PRTB ruled in my favour, giving a payment plan to cover rental-arrears and stating eviction was just.

Tenants never turned up or acknowledged proceedings. Appeal window also closed without their engagement. Refused to open door or to even acknowledge knocks on door.  (Locks changed also by them, btw)

How to proceed (step-by-step) and likely costs, please.


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## Bronte (23 Nov 2015)

1. Illegal eviction today, not advisable as the tenant will then get thousands from the PRTB.  (though I've often wondered what attitude the PRTB would take in a situation where the landlord had done everything correctly, had rent withheld, gone through the long PRTB procedures and still had a sitting tenant paying no rent - maybe in cases like that they'd award a tenant a sum of €1 for the illegal eviction rather than other cases where the landlord does nothing correctly and throw the tenants out without going down the PRTB route, awards of 10K I've seen) 
2. You can try and force the PRTB to take the tenants to court, but they won't, they don't care about landlords, they don't want to waste their money going to court and they know dealing with tenatns like yours is a waste of time but they won't tell you that
3. Good news, for you, Alan Kelly moved the jurisdiction to the District Court from the Circuit court, so now you've to hire a solicitor to get the tenants out, not sure how long this will take you, months I guess.

I advise you to seek help from a landlords organisation like the Irish Property Owners Association.  The PRTB, who you pay for, are less than useless, just see your experience so far and how you've progressed not at all and it's taken you I'd say a year to get to here, how long are the tenants not paying you?  I assume a solicitor will be at least 1K but you need the legal eagles on here to advice you on that.  You also have the options of doing it yourself cutting out that cost.


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## Setanta12 (23 Nov 2015)

A quick call seems to suggest the PRTB would take my tenants to court, force an eviction.  As they are rental-supplement tenants, and I have been receiving the social-welfare part directly from the dept., my thinking is I can afford to see this play out.  I am assuming I can win in Court and get some kind of  stoppage on their dole-monies, however pitiful that may be .. but better than writing off that rent otherwise foregone.  (That stoppage might be EUR5 per week per tenant, a couple)

How likely is the above?


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## elcato (24 Nov 2015)

Given that the tenants are refusing to open the door and leave on their own terms, it appears that you have no choice but to sit it out. One thing though, you are certain they are stuill in the property and have not legged it ?


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## dereko1969 (24 Nov 2015)

Surely the fact that the tenants have changed the locks without your permission changes things? If you don't have access to your own house then surely the Garda should be involved - as above contact IPOA rather than PTSB.


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## Waver (24 Nov 2015)

Setanta12 said:


> A quick call seems to suggest the PRTB would take my tenants to court, force an eviction.  As they are rental-supplement tenants, and I have been receiving the social-welfare part directly from the dept., my thinking is I can afford to see this play out.  I am assuming I can win in Court and get some kind of  stoppage on their dole-monies, however pitiful that may be .. but better than writing off that rent otherwise foregone.  (That stoppage might be EUR5 per week per tenant, a couple)
> 
> How likely is the above?



Why do you assume you can get a stoppage from their Social Welfare? There is no mechanism to have a private debt stopped at source from a social welfare payment.


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## Butter (25 Nov 2015)

Over on the property section of boards.ie this subject was discussed recently. Sorry I can't find the specific thread but maybe if you search with a few key words you might it. 

It did involve taking the PRTB adjudication to the courts though. 

What I don't understand is why if the PRTB has ruled in favour of the LL & the eviction notice was valid why can the LL not reclaim his property, change the locks & store the tenants belongings until they claim them. The tenants have been fairly evicted & yet the LL doesn't have his property back.


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2015)

dereko1969 said:


> Surely the fact that the tenants have changed the locks without your permission changes things? If you don't have access to your own house then surely the Garda should be involved - as above contact IPOA rather than PTSB.



- No, absolutly no, you cannot do anything in relation to them changing the locks without your permission.
- No the gardai will do nothing and will tell you it's a civil matter
- Contacting the IPOA for advice is a good idea
- Contacting the PRTB is a waste of time other than to have a paper trail of doing things by the book


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2015)

Setanta12 said:


> A quick call seems to suggest the PRTB would take my tenants to court, force an eviction.  As they are rental-supplement tenants, and I have been receiving the social-welfare part directly from the dept., my thinking is I can afford to see this play out.  I am assuming I can win in Court and get some kind of  stoppage on their dole-monies, however pitiful that may be .. but better than writing off that rent otherwise foregone.  (That stoppage might be EUR5 per week per tenant, a couple)
> 
> How likely is the above?



No this is not going to happen.  You win in court and you pay for that and even if a court ordered they pay you 5Euro they won't pay it in all likelyhood.  Most people on the dole don't get instalment orders, I think they just go to Mountjoy for a day to 'punish' them and that solves nothing.

Never heard of 5Euro being stopped by social welfare, this is not going to happen.

I'm fascinated with your *phone call* with the PRTB.  What makes you think the PRTB will use their money to take the tenant to court?  I'm absolutely dying to hear this?


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## Bronte (26 Nov 2015)

Butter said:


> It did involve taking the PRTB adjudication to the courts though.
> 
> What I don't understand is why if the PRTB has ruled in favour of the LL & the eviction notice was valid why can the LL not reclaim his property, change the locks & store the tenants belongings until they claim them. The tenants have been fairly evicted & yet the LL doesn't have his property back.



Well the reason is simple.  And I've posted it many times on here.  The PRTB is toothless against tenants who are paying zero rent and who have PRTB orders against them.  The reality is that the Determination Orders of the PRTB are not enforced by them as they cannot do so without taking the tenant to court.  And they don't want to waste money on that.  Tenants have no money you see.  So a court order against the tenants for costs means zero to the PRTB and they know this.

And let's remind us why the PRTB was set up, to avoid going to court.  So now instead of going straight to court, and I mean via a year or so, you have to waste your time going via the PRTB, with appeals taking longer and you end up with a worthless bit of paper, the Determination Order and then you have to reinvent the wheel and go to court.  Lovely system that.  And who is paying for the PRTB.  You are.

And conversly if the landlord, with his valid eviction order from the PRTB actually carried out an eviction, that would be illegal and the tenant would then take a PRTB case and win and the PRTB would rule against the landlord and fine you, I've seen a fine of 10K ! and then if you don't pay that , the PRTB will take you the landlord to court to get it from you.  You couldn't make it up.


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## Butter (26 Nov 2015)

That's the bit that loses me. LL has a determination in his favour, the eviction is valid & yet if he then evicts the tenants, it's deemed illegal? It's comical if it wasn't so serious.


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## facetious (29 Nov 2015)

Bronte said:


> Well the reason is simple.  And I've posted it many times on here.  *The PRTB is toothless against tenants who are paying zero rent and who have PRTB orders against them. * The reality is that the Determination Orders of the PRTB are not enforced by them as they cannot do so without taking the tenant to court.  And they don't want to waste money on that.  Tenants have no money you see.  So a court order against the tenants for costs means zero to the PRTB and they know this.
> 
> And let's remind us why the PRTB was set up, to avoid going to court.  So now instead of going straight to court, and I mean via a year or so, you have to waste your time going via the PRTB, with appeals taking longer and you end up with a worthless bit of paper, the Determination Order and then you have to reinvent the wheel and go to court.  Lovely system that.  And who is paying for the PRTB.  You are.
> 
> And conversly if the landlord, with his valid eviction order from the PRTB actually carried out an eviction, that would be illegal and the tenant would then take a PRTB case and win and the PRTB would rule against the landlord and fine you, I've seen a fine of 10K ! and then if you don't pay that , the PRTB will take you the landlord to court to get it from you.  You couldn't make it up.


But if it's a landlord who has a judgement against him for illegal eviction then the damages awarded to the tenant can be in the 5 figure domain.


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