# Does BER affect the price of a house



## bobby26 (16 Jan 2009)

Hi,

Im buying an investment property . it is an old country cottage and has bad insulation. If it has a bad BER can i try and get a reduction in price?
if so what sort of percentage reduction if any could i expect to get ?

any info would be great. 
thanks.


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## kkelliher (16 Jan 2009)

All the BER is going to do is make A and B houses more expensive in comparison to the others. Most average pre 2008 completions will all be C3 or worse anyway.


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## bobby26 (16 Jan 2009)

ok so basically it benefits newer houses.  

many thanks for the info, it answered everything.


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## kkelliher (16 Jan 2009)

not that it benifits newer houses directly but when it becomes more mainstream and houses are advertising the rate of the unit it will be all the newer units that are A and B and the older units will be C and lower.

to be honest if someone wants to buy  house I cant see it ever been a major deciding factor in a purchase


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## jquinn (16 Jan 2009)

If you've ever lived in a well insulated property, I'd think you'd disagree. I went from a newish timber-frame super-warm (built 2002) to a concrete block house built about 1996. Cost us a fortune to heat - first cold October/November and we went thru a thousand worth of oil. - I'd guess about 3/4K to heat properly for a year.
Re-insulated, put in condensing gas boiler and a pellet stove - last years heating came to €400.
People will eventually start factoring in this cost - i.e. a less well-insulated house costing them €2k or so extra to heat - which is €50k+ off the asking price in terms of mortgage re-payment.

I have two babies and wife/au-pair at home, so heating is on all day, every day from October to April.


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## minion (18 Jan 2009)

kkelliher said:


> not that it benifits newer houses directly but when it becomes more mainstream and houses are advertising the rate of the unit it will be all the newer units that are A and B and the older units will be C and lower.
> 
> to be honest if someone wants to buy  house I cant see it ever been a major deciding factor in a purchase



I agree.  Its a sham.  It will have very little effect on if people buy a property.


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## kkelliher (19 Jan 2009)

jquinn said:


> If you've ever lived in a well insulated property, I'd think you'd disagree. I went from a newish timber-frame super-warm (built 2002) to a concrete block house built about 1996. Cost us a fortune to heat - first cold October/November and we went thru a thousand worth of oil. - I'd guess about 3/4K to heat properly for a year.
> Re-insulated, put in condensing gas boiler and a pellet stove - last years heating came to €400.
> People will eventually start factoring in this cost - i.e. a less well-insulated house costing them €2k or so extra to heat - which is €50k+ off the asking price in terms of mortgage re-payment.
> 
> I have two babies and wife/au-pair at home, so heating is on all day, every day from October to April.




I have lived in a property built in the 70's for 15 years and have never spent that much in a year on heating. 

also my main point is that due to the way our housing system is framed people simply wont have a choice in this regard. All estates will be in the same energy Class (an updated home may move up a class but you wont turn a D to a B very easily). If you take Dublin as an example and you want to live in Templeogue for instance, your selections will be limited and there will not be a whole raft of different energy rated houses to choose from, therefore it wont be an issue unless you move elseware. There are not new estates been built everywhwere in Dublin.


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## DeeFox (19 Jan 2009)

I am a prospective FTB and I would take the BER rating into account.  If it was a newish house and had a low rating I would be concerned and think it may have been one of these houses that was thrown up in the last ten years.  If it was a period house I would expect a low rating and so in this case it wouldn't affect the decision.


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## Slaphead (19 Jan 2009)

DeeFox said:


> I am a prospective FTB and I would take the BER rating into account.  If it was a newish house and had a low rating I would be concerned and think it may have been one of these houses that was thrown up in the last ten years.  If it was a period house I would expect a low rating and so in this case it wouldn't affect the decision.



Agree totally, im a ftb and have told the EA's im dealing with that i will not be bidding on properties without a BER. I'll be expecting reductions if they're not good and all as i plan on improving it if i buy one with a poor rating.


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## ninsaga (19 Jan 2009)

A side step to this topic but related......
I frequently read the Woodpellet Blog Spot. There is a link to an article in the Times Online with regard to the BER assessors (in terms of rating & cost). As part of their research, they got 3 diff companies in Dublin to assess one house..... and as expected, three different ratings provided, 3 different costs & 3 different lenghts of time taken to assess each house.

The rant in the blogspot points clearly at the SEI which is essentially a license for any SEI 'installer' or 'approver' to print money.

Worth a read.


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## living:room (5 Feb 2009)

I also looked into this - [broken link removed] - and contacted a number of Assessors in the Dublin area, at least 3 of which never returned my call. Of the 3 assessors I spoke to, each quoted a different price (€275 - 350 for 3 bed period terr. house) and some referred to a 1 hour inspection, others 3 hours. 

The data gathered by the assessor is fed into the SEI central system and it generates the cert. along with a standard report identifying where improvements could be made. Even here, some assessors said that they provide their own more detailed report, so you have to ask a lot of questions to discover if you are comparing like with like when checking quotes. Also, the information is processed based on typical usage by typical occupants, which may differ completely from the way you use the house, eg. single person or couple compared to family of four.

I also spoke to the SEI about this, specifically the fact that the exam for assessing existing properties has not been devised yet - assessors are currently only qualified in assessing new properties. The SEI said that this wasn't an issue because of the type of software used and that the exam would be in place in a couple of months, although late 2009 has been quoted elsewhere - assessors will have to pass this exam before the end of the year to continue carrying out this service.

It does rather beg the question - how valid are those assessments carried out now by assessors who either don't sit the exam by the end of the year or don't achieve a pass?


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## Optimist (6 Feb 2009)

Slaphead said:


> Agree totally, im a ftb and have told the EA's im dealing with that i will not be bidding on properties without a BER.


 

Properties cannot be up for sale now if they dont have a BER certificate so this shouldn't be an issue.


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## kkelliher (6 Feb 2009)

Optimist said:


> Properties cannot be up for sale now if they dont have a BER certificate so this shouldn't be an issue.




It is a huge issue. Have a look at daft for properties for sale in Ireland at present. There is more than 50,000. I dont believe for one second that (50,000 x 200) over €10 million has been spent on BER certs in Ireland so I would guess most dont have certs and who is going to check anyway. Most auctioneers dont even check.


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## Galwayboy (6 Feb 2009)

Your solicitor shouldn't allow you to close the sale without it, as its now law.


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## bren1916 (6 Feb 2009)

Originally Posted by *kkelliher* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=783520#post783520 
_
to be honest if someone wants to buy house I cant see it ever been a major deciding factor in a purchase_



minion said:


> I agree. Its a sham. It will have very little effect on if people buy a property.


 
If I were buying a house this year I would certainly want to know the BER Rating and if it was a C or D I would be negotiating a significant price reduction (if I really wanted the house) to bring it up to an acceptable standard of efficiency.
I suppose it's akin to buying a car - some people will buy anything and pay the asking price without ever looking under the hood...


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## kkelliher (6 Feb 2009)

bren. I do agree but the biggest problem with the certs is that if your set on a particular area the chances are most BEr certs will be around the same so your negociation power is limited. 

In most well established areas in Dublin for instance there are no new houses. A house constructed last year would be built under the old regulations and will prob get no better than a C2/3. Even a house built under standard current building regs will only achieve approx B3 and they are updating the regs again in 2010 so it will prob get worse. I cant really see it been a factor when it comes to buying unless you dont mind moving around area wise to achieve a better BER but I would feel you will pay for the privilage


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## minion (6 Feb 2009)

bren1916 said:


> If I were buying a house this year I would certainly want to know the BER Rating and if it was a C or D I would be negotiating a significant price reduction (if I really wanted the house) to bring it up to an acceptable standard of efficiency.
> I suppose it's akin to buying a car - some people will buy anything and pay the asking price without ever looking under the hood...




You might do that nowadays, but when the housing cycle turns again you will be paying x for a D rating and x + y for a C rating.

It will add a bit to the cost for sure and not take away from it in a rising market.
Possibly take a way a bit in a falling market alright.


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## dereko1969 (6 Feb 2009)

i'm sorry but you can't say a particular area will have the same rating. the same houses built will have differing ratings depending on whether or not double-glazed windows have been installed and other insulating methods have been used to improve the house, and it will definitely help buyers to determine whether or not they seek further reductions based on the BER rating. that's the whole point of thing to bring up the quality of older houses so that they will attract better prices than the 'same' house next door that hasn't made improvements.


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## kkelliher (6 Feb 2009)

taking the second hand market in dublin for instance. There is a large proportion of existing dublin areas where a particular builder or architect designed/built the properties to a very similar spec. The material build will be similar in these estates. the glazing / double glazing issue will be similar. I do not know but would assume that a high % of houses now all have double glazing. Unless for instance the house has been completely drylined or similar then the rating will be all but the same. The onyl difference will be orintation/heating system but even these will be limited in effect on the ratings. I would be supprised if you will have a B1/B2 and a C2/C3 in the same estate, maybe you will but I would be very supprised.


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## minion (6 Feb 2009)

kkelliher said:


> taking the second hand market in dublin for instance. There is a large proportion of existing dublin areas where a particular builder or architect designed/built the properties to a very similar spec. The material build will be similar in these estates. the glazing / double glazing issue will be similar. I do not know but would assume that a high % of houses now all have double glazing. Unless for instance the house has been completely drylined or similar then the rating will be all but the same. The onyl difference will be orintation/heating system but even these will be limited in effect on the ratings. I would be supprised if you will have a B1/B2 and a C2/C3 in the same estate, maybe you will but I would be very supprised.



I think you are dead right here.

But there are likely to be differences based on the quality of the survey, as we have seen already.  So no matter what you do to your house you cant depend on a higher rating than the next house.


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## Optimist (6 Feb 2009)

kkelliher said:


> It is a huge issue. Have a look at daft for properties for sale in Ireland at present. There is more than 50,000. I dont believe for one second that (50,000 x 200) over €10 million has been spent on BER certs in Ireland so I would guess most dont have certs and who is going to check anyway. Most auctioneers dont even check.


 
I'm afraid it doesn't matter what you believe or otherwise. You cannot complete the conveyance or lease of a house (legally anyway) without a BER cert as of the 1st January this year. So it doesn't matter if your auctioneer doesn't check - it is YOU that will levied with the 5000 euro fine under Article 10 of the Regulations.... however if you choose not to believe this than that is another issue!


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## annmarie20 (6 Feb 2009)

bobby26 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im buying an investment property . it is an old country cottage and has bad insulation. If it has a bad BER can i try and get a reduction in price?
> if so what sort of percentage reduction if any could i expect to get ?
> ...



you should get a reduction of about 2 grand

to get  professional job of cavity wall or attic insulation
[broken link removed]
would also save on your heating bills and bring your insulation up to currant regulations


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## Sue Ellen (6 Feb 2009)

annmarie20 said:


> you should get a reduction of about 2 grand
> 
> to get  professional job of cavity wall or attic insulation
> [broken link removed]
> would also save on your heating bills and bring your insulation up to currant regulations



Hi Ann Marie,

Welcome to AAM.

In line with the posting guidelines can you confirm if you have any association with the recommended company?

Thanks,

Sue Ellen.


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## minion (7 Feb 2009)

annmarie20 said:


> you should get a reduction of about 2 grand
> 
> to get  professional job of cavity wall or attic insulation
> [broken link removed]
> would also save on your heating bills and bring your insulation up to currant regulations




Just to let you know, these guys are *really expensive* compared to other companies who do the same work.  Make sure you get a quote from a few different companies.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Feb 2009)

jquinn said:


> ... I went from a newish timber-frame super-warm (built 2002) to a concrete block house built about 1996. Cost us a fortune to heat - first cold October/November and we went thru a thousand worth of oil. - I'd guess about 3/4K to heat properly for a year.....


 
Can't understand that bill either. Lived in far older houses and never had a bill like that.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Feb 2009)

minion said:


> Just to let you know, these guys are *really expensive* compared to other companies who do the same work. Make sure you get a quote from a few different companies.


 
What other companies did you try?


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## minion (8 Feb 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> What other companies did you try?




Cheapest we got in the end was [broken link removed]

There is bargaining to be had, so drive a hard bargain.


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## AlbacoreA (8 Feb 2009)

How much does that warm fill cost?


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## rabbit (9 Feb 2009)

kkelliher said:


> to be honest if someone wants to buy house I cant see it ever been a major deciding factor in a purchase


 
I agree.  Different BER assessors ( in an article in the paper last month ) gave the same property different ratings, so I do not think people would have much confidence in the ratings anyway, or heed them. 
As someone else said, just another bit of paper, a bit of jobs for the boys.


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## minion (9 Feb 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> How much does that warm fill cost?



If you ring them with the measurements of your walls they will work it out for you on the phone.

They come in a truck that has some machine that puts glue on the polystyrene beads.  They drill a few holes in the walls and blow these beads in.  The have cameras to look inside the walls to make sure it works.  then they fill the holes so you dont even notice.  It took about 4 hours i think.

Noticed the difference straight away.  They might do your attic too.  We didnt get that though.

It cost us €700 to do the cavity walls on a 1200sq ft bungalow so i would say more that that for a2 storey maybe.

They will be open to bargaining so definitely bargain hard .


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## delgirl (8 Nov 2014)

What's the consensus in 2014 - how important is the BER rating to potential buyers?

Hoping to put our home on the market next year and are wondering if it's worth getting a pre-BER inspection done and then carrying out whatever works they recommend in order to raise the rating.

A neighbouring property, also built by the same developer in 1999, went up for sale recently with a C3 rating - would that be considered good or would it be worth it to carry out work to raise the rating to a B3 for example?


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## AlbacoreA (8 Nov 2014)

Well you have to have a Ber rating. Its a legal requirement. But you are really asking how much to spend on raising it. Its an interesting question worthy of its own thread. With more detail on the property to get advice one.


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## Butter (8 Nov 2014)

Delgirl - I got a BER cert done on my house recently. It was built in 2004, we've put extra insulation in the attic & had the cavity walls insulated. We got a C2 rating. 
Every recommendation we were given to improve our rating was noted as high cost & low impact. 
To be honest the report is totally non-specific & fairly useless. It's a requirement to sell your house but other than that a waste of money. I can't see any house other than very recent builds achieving an A or a B.


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