# Travel - would you go?



## Silvius

Hi all, would you consider travelling to the Canaries or similar for a few weeks over the winter if you were in a position to self-isolate for two weeks on your return? It's something I'm wrestling with at the moment. We usually go to the sun for a couple of weeks for health reasons (physical and mental) over the winter. We've followed official guidance all along and don't like to go against it but as we could self-isolate quite easily we're weighing up the pros and cons, mainly the health benefits of going v staying. Obviously going through the airport and going on a plane carries significant risk to be considered too. Any thoughts?


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## joe sod

Thats a "problem" many others would love to have, whether to go to the Canaries or not?, if you don't have work commitments then why not. The plane is not an issue as everyone is wearing masks and they are half empty anyway. The reason most people are not travelling is because they have work commitments and cannot afford to quarantine for 2 weeks on return, you don't have that problem.


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## Silvius

I never said it was a problem. It's not a problem, although health problems have worsened in the Irish winter the years we haven't gone. I can work from anywhere as a lot of people can now. Can also work while self-isolating obviously. I think quite a few are travelling or working elsewhere because of this ability to remote work, didn't Amazon call their staff back to Ireland recently? My hesitation is about breaking official guidance. I don't like doing it and I know that family and friends take a very poor view of people breaking the rules and this influences me too.


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## joe sod

Silvius said:


> I don't like doing it and I know that family and friends take a very poor view of people breaking the rules and this influences me too.


Sure you are quarantining for 2 weeks, whats the problem? You probably need to have a conversation with yourself, which is more important , the holiday in the Canaries, or what other people think ?
In any case you will be in the Canaries so you wont be meeting them anyways, by the time you get back there will be a new bogeyman, maybe it will be the pubs, maybe it will be dubs going to wexford again.


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## Leper

I'm a stickler for the restrictions regarding Covid. I expect everybody else to be the same. That's why I ain't leaving the county, never mind the country until restrictions are lifted.


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## Silvius

Yeah I guess I was interested to see which side people would come down on, 'use your head and as long as you're not putting anyone else at risk do what suits you' or 'rules are rules and you're the worst in the world if you break them'. My extended family are more in the second camp and while I usually don't worry too much what they think I'd rather not fall out with the lot of them over this. People generally have extremely strong and fixed views about anything to do with covid. I was also wondering if there's any aspect of risk assessment here that I missed, I don't want to put anyone else at risk.


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## almostthere

Queuing to get on plane. Queuing to get off plane.  No social distancing. Transfer to terminal on packed bus. Queuing at passport control.

A family member flew through Malaga recently. All inbound planes being directed to one area. Two large Jumbo type planes from Middle East off loaded at same time his flight was being off loaded. Airside packed. Non airside practically empty.

These are the things that put me off.


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## joer

I would love to travel but it looks like it will be a while yet before holidays abroad is a good option. 
A staycation is not even an option right now.


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## jackswift

Leper said:


> I'm a stickler for the restrictions regarding Covid. I expect everybody else to be the same. That's why I ain't leaving the county, never mind the country until restrictions are lifted.


Ironic username


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## DK123

Hopefully Covid checks at the airports in Ireland for returning holiday passengers will be introduced soon and the 14 days restrictions after returning from holidays will not be needed.Our friend Covid will probably be with us for a number of years.I agree with joe sods advise[My 5 cents worth]


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## RichInSpirit

I felt uncomfortable while shopping in the spring time because of the Covid. I'm definitely not travelling abroad for the foreseeable future.


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## joer

Even with traffic light system I will not be travelling either..


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## NoRegretsCoyote

almostthere said:


> Queuing to get on plane. Queuing to get off plane. No social distancing. Transfer to terminal on packed bus. Queuing at passport control.




I've been on four flights since July.

Terminals, buses, flights are all really empty. Everyone is masked. You are not in a confined space breathing in anyone's aerosols for prolonged periods indoors at any point. There is very little risk.



I am beginning to think that people perceive Covid risk a bit like rape or murder. Everyone is convinced that fleeting encounters with a stranger are the most risk, but in reality you will most likely catch it from someone you know and spend a lot of time with.


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## Bronco Lane

[broken link removed]

Some updates on the Balearics in this link.


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## grenzgebiet

So you quarantine when you arrive back in Ireland and test positive after 5 days. So then what - overloaded Irish health system has to cope with another imported case and potential new mutants arriving here.
The restrictions on geographical movements are there for a reason and for the protection of society as a whole.
Nobody has a 'right' to disregard these for purely selfish personal objectives.


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## Merowig

grenzgebiet said:


> So you quarantine when you arrive back in Ireland and test positive after 5 days. So then what - overloaded Irish health system has to cope with another imported case and potential new mutants arriving here.
> The restrictions on geographical movements are there for a reason and for the protection of society as a whole.
> Nobody has a 'right' to disregard these for purely selfish personal objectives.



Doubtful it will be possible to restrict it for long. There is a long list of reasons one can and will use for travelling. By summer the most vulnerable ones are hopefully vaccinated and also cases will go down again naturally with the higher temperatures and additional sunlight like it did last summer. 
Also not all imported cases lead automatically to a new hospital case. Any new mutant will arrive here in Ireland in the end regardless. People tend to forget this is not North Korea.


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> By summer the most vulnerable ones are hopefully vaccinated and also cases will go down again naturally with the higher temperatures and additional sunlight like it did last summer.



The assertion that warmer temperatures / more sun would lower covid transmission has been shown long ago to be . A study in India showed transmission increasing with extreme temperatures.


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## grenzgebiet

Not talking N. Korea at all -  but definately admire New Zealand / Australia.


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## Merowig

grenzgebiet said:


> Not talking N. Korea at all -  but definately admire New Zealand / Australia.


They are not in the EU and geographically already quite isolated.  They do not host large populations of foreign nationals. A ton of lorries and buses / vans / planes come and go here daily basically. Ireland is hosting the EMEA HQ of many multinationals and also here travel is still involved.

@Leo https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0238339


> Faced with the global pandemic of COVID-19, declared by World Health Organization (WHO) on March 11th 2020, and the need to better understand the seasonal behavior of the virus, our team conducted this systematic review to describe current knowledge about the emergence and replicability of the virus and its connection with different weather factors such as temperature and relative humidity.
> (...)
> The initial screening identified 517 articles. After examination of the full texts, seventeen studies met the review's eligibility criteria. Great homogeneity was observed in the findings regarding the effect of temperature and humidity on the seasonal viability and transmissibility of COVID-19. Cold and dry conditions were potentiating factors on the spread of the virus. After quality assessment, two studies had a high risk of bias, eleven studies were scored as moderate risk of bias, and four studies were classified as low risk of bias. The certainty of evidence was graded as low for both outcomes evaluated.
> (...)
> Considering the existing scientific evidence, warm and wet climates seem to reduce the spread of COVID-19. However, these variables alone could not explain most of the variability in disease transmission. Therefore, the countries most affected by the disease should focus on health policies, even with climates less favorable to the virus. Although the certainty of the evidence generated was classified as low, there was homogeneity between the results reported by the included studies.



That review of the literature sees it a bit differently


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> @Leo https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0238339



And that link discredits your earlier statement!


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## Merowig

Leo said:


> And that link discredits your earlier statement!


I read it differently - that link states basically that several studies found an impact but also that there are further variables. Certainity is low but findings were homogenous


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> I read it differently - that link states basically that several studies found an impact but also that there are further variables. Certainity is low but findings were homogenous



They noted bias in a number of them and concluded:  



> The certainty of evidence was graded as low for both outcomes evaluated.


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## joe sod

The Eu looking at vaccine passports but can't really see that being a runner seen as only the old and vulnerable are likely to be vaccinated by summer. The main holidaying and spending population will still not be vaccinated, therefore I see Spain and Greece opening up to European countries at the same stage of vaccination but without need for vaccine passport. You can't impose a vaccine passport when who gets vaccinated is not an individual choice. The tourist industry needs to be opened by summer


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## Leo

joe sod said:


> The main holidaying and spending population will still not be vaccinated,



The retired make up a large proportion of the holidaying public.


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## Merowig

Newest Holiday packages - one does three weeks of holidays in Russia and gets two vaccination shots - or you go to Russia, get a shot, go to Turkey for the beach, return to Russia for the second shot and then back home.

Google Translate to be used for the non German speakers








						Türkei-Urlaub plus Corona-Impfung: Diese Reise macht den Traum wahr - WELT
					

Die Deutschen wünschen sich Urlaub – und fast alle müssen noch monatelang auf ihre Impfung warten. Ein Reiseveranstalter will nun beide Sehnsüchte mit einem Angebot stillen. WELT erklärt, wie die ersten sogenannten Impfreisen ablaufen sollen.




					www.welt.de
				



Details about the packages are on https://meine-impfreise.com/

In another article I read about a holiday package in the UAE where one could get the SinoVac shot. Not my cup of tea...

I am already considering myself to get vaccinated abroad in the summer (but not part of any holiday package).


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## Leper

Just an update as far as tourism in Spain is concerned. Senor Sanchez (Prime Minister) in a press interview about a month ago informed readers that Spain may not open to any incoming foreign tourism before December 2021. The tourism minister of Spain moved quickly and said she hoped tourism would be restored in August 2021. I think somewhere in between may be closer to the truth. 

On the Ground Information:- The occupants of the coastal tourism areas fear influx from Madrid (where Covid was rampant) and other big Spanish cities more than they fear inflow of foreign tourism.


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## Merowig

Leo said:


> They noted bias in a number of them and concluded:


The latest research seems to proof here a connection between infection rate and temperature









						Scientists Find Link Between Outside Temperature and COVID-19 Transmission Rates
					

Researchers analyzed daily low temperatures and infection rates in 50 Northern Hemisphere countries to quantify their effect on SARS-CoV-2 transmission. The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has caused tremendous upheaval, leading to more than 2.3 million deaths worldwide and 465,000 in the United States. Unde



					scitechdaily.com
				













						Research shows impact of seasonal temperature changes on SARS-CoV-2 transmission
					

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has caused tremendous upheaval, leading to more than 2.3 million deaths worldwide and 465,000 in the United States.




					www.news-medical.net
				





> The researchers compared daily low temperature data and logged cases of COVID-19 in 50 countries in the Northern Hemisphere between Jan. 22 and April 6, 2020. Their research, published this week in _PLOS ONE,_ showed that as temperatures rose, the rate of new cases of COVID-19 decreased.
> 
> The data analysis showed that between 30 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit, a 1-degree Fahrenheit increase in daily low temperature was associated with a 1% decrease in the rate of increase in COVID-19 cases, and a 1-degree decrease in temperature was associated with an increase in that rate by 3.7%. By analyzing data from early in the pandemic, the results were obtained without significant influence by lockdowns, masking or other social efforts to contain the virus."



Not really surprising that Covid behaves similar to other seasonal respiratory viruses.


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> The latest research seems to proof here a connection between infection rate and temperature



Why use a study based solely on data from the northern hemisphere from January to April 2020 to support your assertion that cases will drop in the summer? 

They conveniently chose a period before Covid became widespread, before far more contagious strains developed and stopped before spring was over?  Their attempt to explain away the massive surge in the US as temperatures rose, 'well, it might have been worse if it was warmer'! 

There hasn't been a lot of study on the driving mechanisms of the seasonal nature of the annual flu season, but it's believed that human behaviours are likely a far more significant factor than temperature. That's suggested as the reason that the season really gets underway after kids return to school and peaks are usually associated with Christmas holiday period regardless of temperature.


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## Paul O Mahoney

Read this a few months ago and it also seems to suggest transmission is down to human behaviour.


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## Wahaay

There's a reason why Ryanair has introduced 8 new routes to mainly Southern Europe from June from Belfast for the first time in more than a decade.
It's going to be very difficult for the Irish authorities to prevent people here using that route - particularly if certain countries are willing to accept a negative RT-PCR test as I suspect they might if the infection rare in the UK continues to plummet.
Fit-to-fly tests with a 24-hour turnaround costing £80 are being offered at all the main airports.
BA are offering them for half that price.


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## EasilyAmused

I heard this morning on the radio that most countries will have their own “vaccine passport” requirements. 
So no seamless travel like a normal passport. 

A “vaccine passport” discriminates against people who have had Covid and have antibodies.
A “Covid Clean” passport would be fairer.


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## Wahaay

EasilyAmused said:


> I heard this morning on the radio that most countries will have their own “vaccine passport” requirements.
> So no seamless travel like a normal passport.
> 
> A “vaccine passport” discriminates against people who have had Covid and have antibodies.
> A “Covid Clean” passport would be fairer.



I agree.
Vaccines won't be the only key to unlock travel this summer.
Family holidays don't happen if only the parents have been vaxxed.
I think it will be a mixture of vaccines and PCR tests on an app with QR code readability.
In the UK the NHS app seems an obvious candidate and the HSE app here could easily be reworked.
That's if preparations are being made now ...


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## EasilyAmused

Have they sorted out the battery issue with the HSE Covid app?
Something like 500,000 people deleted the app because of it.


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## Wahaay

The Greek Tourism minister has said the country will open up this summer for either people with a vaccine or
 if not a negative PCR test result.
I would imagine the Spanish islands to be similar.
I fail to see how Ireland can stop people having a summer holiday abroad.


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## EasilyAmused

Alas, by summertime a two week holiday in Greece will be followed by a two week mandatory quarantine in CitiWest.


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## joe sod

@Wahaay and this is the first statement, i imagine alot more softening of barriers coming upto holiday time. However big problems for the government here if indeed vaccinations become the gateway to the sun, only the over 60s will be vaccinated by then. Is it tenable just to allow the older age group to travel but not the younger age group? Afterall vaccinations are not an individual choice but a government controlled one. Also this will be the same all over Europe, Ibiza be full of old age pensioners rather than young clubbers   !!


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## Wahaay

joe sod said:


> @Wahaay and this is the first statement, i imagine alot more softening of barriers coming upto holiday time. However big problems for the government here if indeed vaccinations become the gateway to the sun, only the over 60s will be vaccinated by then. Is it tenable just to allow the older age group to travel but not the younger age group? Afterall vaccinations are not an individual choice but a government controlled one. Also this will be the same all over Europe, Ibiza be full of old age pensioners rather than young clubbers   !!



As I mentioned earlier Joe I suspect RT-PCR tests will also feature in the summer tourist season plans of the Med countries.
£80 for a Fit to Fly Test at a walk-in centre at Gatwick with results guaranteed within 24 hours.
I suspect young Irish clubbers will factor in a couple of days on the sauce in London before heading off to the flesh-pots.


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## joe sod

Yes but the PCR test is still a barrier to travel vis a vis the vaccine, so you are imposing hurdles on one group of people but not on the other. The only way that this divergence can be bridged is by allowing quick  antigen testing for pan European travel , this way unvaccinated younger travellers are not "discriminated" against excessively. It cannot be forgotten that the order of vaccination is government controlled. Why should younger travellers have to get potentially 2 PCR test at a minimum cost of 180euros, while older vaccinated people are free of this. If the EU are not thinking of this it will be another shambles


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## Wahaay

joe sod said:


> Yes but the PCR test is still a barrier to travel vis a vis the vaccine, so you are imposing hurdles on one group of people but not on the other. The only way that this divergence can be bridged is by allowing quick  antigen testing for pan European travel , this way unvaccinated younger travellers are not "discriminated" against excessively. It cannot be forgotten that the order of vaccination is government controlled. Why should younger travellers have to get potentially 2 PCR test at a minimum cost of 180euros, while older vaccinated people are free of this. If the EU are not thinking of this it will be another shambles



I still think much will change in the next 2-3 months as the vaccine roll-out, even in Ireland, kicks in and the virus recedes as it did last summer.
We managed a couple of weeks in Greece last September with no more than a forehead temperature check.


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## EmmDee

EasilyAmused said:


> Have they sorted out the battery issue with the HSE Covid app?
> Something like 500,000 people deleted the app because of it.



Yeah it was sorted within a day or so. There was a workaround at the time but it's been updated - no battery issues now


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## Leo

Wahaay said:


> As I mentioned earlier Joe I suspect RT-PCR tests will also feature in the summer tourist season plans of the Med countries.



The Covid outbreak in the French rugby squad originated with a player who had a negative PCR test prior to entering the bubble, so testing alone isn't a solution.


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## Wahaay

Leo said:


> The Covid outbreak in the French rugby squad originated with a player who had a negative PCR test prior to entering the bubble, so testing alone isn't a solution.



I agree.
But negative testing from a country where most adults have had a least one vaccine and herd immunity has been reached for visitors to a Greek island where all locals have also been vaccinated is a different matter and is the current objective of the Greek government intent on saving their summer tourist season.


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## Leo

Wahaay said:


> I agree.
> But negative testing from a country where most adults have had a least one vaccine and herd immunity has been reached for visitors to a Greek island where all locals have also been vaccinated is a different matter and is the current objective of the Greek government intent on saving their summer tourist season.



Yeah, it's a numbers game. All about lowering probability to a level chosen as acceptable.


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## EasilyAmused

Greece are opening up to U.K. tourists from May 14th. Dunno what the requirements are (UK passport/UK departure/Covid passport?).


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## Wahaay

EasilyAmused said:


> Greece are opening up to U.K. tourists from May 14th. Dunno what the requirements are (UK passport/UK departure/Covid passport?).





Wahaay said:


> I agree.
> Vaccines won't be the only key to unlock travel this summer.
> Family holidays don't happen if only the parents have been vaxxed.
> I think it will be a mixture of vaccines and PCR tests on an app with QR code readability.
> In the UK the NHS app seems an obvious candidate and the HSE app here could easily be reworked.
> That's if preparations are being made now ...



As I mentioned earlier a combination of vaccines and Negative PCR tests - it looks like the Greeks are considering the first vaccine as being sufficient.
Corfu here we come.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9344431/Greece-gives-green-light-tourists-14.html


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## joe sod

What does that mean for irish tourists though travelling from for example the UK? also will Ireland open up to UK travel aswell since they will largely be vaccinated,  last year was very easy for irish government,  just stop everything,  now they have some very tricky decisions to make. It would look really bad if UK travellers were free to enter the country but irish travellers would have to present a negative PCR  test.


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## Wahaay

joe sod said:


> What does that mean for irish tourists though travelling from for example the UK? also will Ireland open up to UK travel aswell since they will largely be vaccinated,  last year was very easy for irish government,  just stop everything,  now they have some very tricky decisions to make. It would look really bad if UK travellers were free to enter the country but irish travellers would have to present a negative PCR  test.



As bad as now where Irish travellers are free to enter the UK without a negative PCR Test but on their return from that country which has vaccinated a third of its adult population and has a lower rate of infection than here still require a Negative PCR Test to enter and even then must self-isolate for two weeks.
But you're fine coming down over the border ...


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## joe sod

@Wahaay but in fairness to the government they only introduced that after the UK variant was announced by boris at Christmas, the irish government was actually very reluctant to introduce restrictions with the UK. The UK variant was also the reason for the huge Christmas upsurge (however I don't understand why we need label it the UK variant when labeling the "China virus " was regarded as racist) But I think this new situation needs different heads, I think that Tony holohan off the scene again is a good  thing, (albeit for tragic personal reasons),  I think ronan glynn would be a better guy in charge as we open up again.


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## Wahaay

joe sod said:


> @Wahaay but in fairness to the government they only introduced that after the UK variant was announced by boris at Christmas, the irish government was actually very reluctant to introduce restrictions with the UK. The UK variant was also the reason for the huge Christmas upsurge (however I don't understand why we need label it the UK variant when labeling the "China virus " was regarded as racist) But I think this new situation needs different heads, I think that Tony holohan off the scene again is a good  thing, (albeit for tragic personal reasons),  I think ronan glynn would be a better guy in charge as we open up again.



I agree.
But that was then and this is now and it merely characterises the inability of this government to react quickly to changing events.
Or even slowly.
I presume it is still refusing to share information on its passenger locator forms with its NI counterparts.


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## EasilyAmused

Interesting piece by George Lee last night. 
About one third of NI residents have received their first jab, but the 7-day and 14-day incidence rates are only marginally better than the Republic.


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## Leper

EasilyAmused said:


> Interesting piece by George Lee last night.
> About one third of NI residents have received their first jab, but the 7-day and 14-day incidence rates are only marginally better than the Republic.


At this moment I'd be delighted if one third of ROI people had had their first jab.


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## EasilyAmused

Leper said:


> At this moment I'd be delighted if one third of ROI people had had their first jab.



I don’t doubt I didn’t explain it as well as George, but I think what he’s getting at is the Covid transmission rates in NI and ROI are very similar despite such a higher first jab rate in NI.


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## joer

You would imagine that the transmission rates in NI should be much better than the Republic all the time considering there is only 6 counties. 
For a long time they were much worse than us ..


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## Purple

joer said:


> You would imagine that the transmission rates in NI should be much better than the Republic all the time considering there is only 6 counties.
> For a long time they were much worse than us ..


I heard some say that opening up one part of a country because it has low infection rates while there are high rates in the rest of the country is like having one end of a swimming pool that you are allowed to pee in.


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## joe sod

Well the reason why transmission rates are now similar is that they were starting from a much higher level than us but now they will be going alot lower due to the success of their vaccination program. We spent all last year dissing them for their poor response to corona virus,  we should at least give some credit for the success they are having now.
What will happen as they open up and we stay shut,  all the young will be travelling to north and UK for holidays. I can't believe nobody in government or media is talking about this. The lockdown here will be effectively over


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## Leo

joe sod said:


> We spent all last year dissing them for their poor response to corona virus, we should at least give some credit for the success they are having now.



But what part of the improvement in NI is down to local action and not just a benefit of the UK vaccination program? The only credit here is being part of the union, not actually doing anything.


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## EasilyAmused

Sobering:

400,000 postponed holidays 'in doubt' due to continued pandemic restrictions.









						400,000 postponed holidays 'in doubt' due to continued pandemic restrictions
					

Travel agents call for 'ghost flights' to be outlawed so customers get refunds




					www.irishexaminer.com


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## EasilyAmused

Further grim news this morning. A high profile Irish hotelier saying that based on current soundings he doesn’t believe he’ll be permitted to reopen until July.


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## Sophrosyne

EasilyAmused said:


> Greece are opening up to U.K. tourists from May 14th. Dunno what the requirements are (UK passport/UK departure/Covid passport?).



I wonder will that happen.

The Greek figures have been on an upward trajectory since February.

The reported new cases and new deaths figures for the year up to March 12 show daily averages of:


*New Cases**Daily Average**New Deaths**Daily Average**Jan*18107​584​958​31​*Feb*34143​1219​708​25​*Mar*25918​2160​482​40​


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## Wahaay

Sophrosyne said:


> I wonder will that happen.
> 
> The Greek figures have been on an upward trajectory since February.
> 
> The reported new cases and new deaths figures for the year up to March 12 show daily averages of:
> 
> 
> *New Cases**Daily Average**New Deaths**Daily Average**Jan*18107​584​958​31​*Feb*34143​1219​708​25​*Mar*25918​2160​482​40​




Greece is targetting its main tourist islands with its vaccine programme because tourism is such a massive component of its economy.
And because they're islands it's much easier for them to control the spread.
Airports and ferry terminals are much easier to control arrivals with testing than say the Peleponnese.
Elswhere Cyprus and the Seychelles are also good examples - vaccinate the entire local population and rigidly control tourist arrivals.
I may be wrong but I have a very good feeling about the two Med holidays we now have booked for this summer even though it might involve a big of jiggery-pokery to get around Ireland's doomed attempts to surround this part of the island in barbed wire and watchtowers.


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## Sophrosyne

Wahaay said:


> Greece is targetting its main tourist islands with its vaccine programme because tourism is such a massive component of its economy.
> And because they're islands it's much easier for them to control the spread.
> Airports and ferry terminals are much easier to control arrivals with testing than say the Peleponnese.



Yes. I understand Greece is targeting vaccines at the smallest islands first and then larger tourist island destinations such as Mykonos, Corfu, Santorini, etc.

Most British & other tourists visit the islands rather than the mainland.

But rising case numbers are in Attica, which includes Athens.

Given vaccine supply constraints, only time will tell whether this is a smart strategy and whether it will be a pill easily swallowed by Grecians in hardest hit regions.


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## EasilyAmused

Wahaay said:


> And because they're islands it's much easier for them to control the spread.



This time last year that’s what I thought about Ireland  



Wahaay said:


> I may be wrong but I have a very good feeling about the two Med holidays we now have booked for this summer ...



There’s been a Coronavirus spike in Italy leading to tightening of restrictions from this weekend and fear of another wave.


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## Wahaay

EasilyAmused said:


> This time last year that’s what I thought about Ireland
> 
> 
> 
> There’s been a Coronavirus spike in Italy leading to tightening of restrictions from this weekend and fear of another wave.



I take your point but I still believe both Spain and Greece think a summer tourist season is eminently possible.
The UK's infection and fatality  rate will be negligible by then as will Israel's as both countries vaccinate their entire adult population.
Throw in vaccine and negative PCR test passports and it's a goer.
I see BA is planning to utilize it's larger long-haul planes on some of the European routes.
Kerching at last.


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## Merowig

57,000 passport applications paused under Level 5
					

More than 50,000 people are waiting for their passport applications to be processed with the service paused since December under Level 5 restrictions.




					www.rte.ie
				




Feels like North Korea or then Communist Eastern Europe when the government is declining the handout of passports. I didn't hear of any other Western Government doing that either.
Also some of the situations which allow travelling abroad can happen on short notice - the passport won't be given though on short notice....

Perhaps they try this tactic in order to prevent here constructions workers from leaving Ireland   (won't help though with the many Non-Irish workers)


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> Also some of the situations which allow travelling abroad can happen on short notice - the passport won't be given though on short notice....


Did you even read the article you posted?



> The Department of Foreign Affairs says emergency and urgent servcies are being offered online and any applicants with a reasonable excuse for non essential travel should contact the passport offices webchat function.


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## Merowig

Sure I read it - but I have much less trust in the efficiency of the Irish administration and Post.
E.g. close relative dies on a Friday late afternoon in the UK or even further away - Russia - Funeral scheduled for Monday or Tuesday - I would not trust here the Irish authorities at all to provide here a passport in time...
That is just additional unnecessary distress and grief caused by the Irish government...
No other country in the West is doing that to my knowledge - that is though on par though as said with unsavory regimes of the past and present elsewhere.


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## Leo

Merowig said:


> E.g. close relative dies on a Friday late afternoon in the UK or even further away - Russia - Funeral scheduled for Monday or Tuesday - I would not trust here the Irish authorities at all to provide here a passport in time...



There was no guarantee they would turn around an application that quickly prior to Covid, and there is nothing to suggest there has been any change to the timeline of issuing emergency passports at the moment even with Level 5 restrictions in place.  

You seem to be trying to associate an emotive element to this that is just not supported by the facts.


----------



## Merowig

The fact is they do not process anything - so if an application was done in December in advance of the expiration of the passport they do nothing and the clerks right now sit on their hands. If they would do just their work there would likely not be a need to issue here emergency passports. It is a Government caused problem which is hiding behind a placebo solution. 
Not effecting me but just shows what kind of Government here is in place.


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> The fact is they do not process anything



They are, have you tried contacting their online facility?


----------



## Merowig

Leo said:


> They are, have you tried contacting their online facility?


The RTE article says they pause.


----------



## RedOnion

Imagine the security issues if they got staff working from home to issue passports?!

Same day passports are available for listed emergency reasons, and the reasons were expanded last week.


----------



## Merowig

Thanks RedOnion - I would have imagined that counts as an essential service - at least in any other country it is.


----------



## Wahaay

Merowig said:


> Sure I read it - but I have much less trust in the efficiency of the Irish administration and Post.
> E.g. close relative dies on a Friday late afternoon in the UK or even further away - Russia - Funeral scheduled for Monday or Tuesday - I would not trust here the Irish authorities at all to provide here a passport in time...
> That is just additional unnecessary distress and grief caused by the Irish government...
> No other country in the West is doing that to my knowledge - that is though on par though as said with unsavory regimes of the past and present elsewhere.



Also note the use of the phrase " reasonable excuse " rather than reason for travelling.
It'a not an excuse to be entitled to a passport.It's your right.


----------



## joe sod

Surely this is discrimination because if you're passport is not near expiry you can carry on as before, however they choose not to process those passports that they have in their possession and are using Covid as an excuse. This is secrecy and shabbiness of the highest order . If supermarket workers paid 12 euros an hour are regarded as essential workers surely well paid passport officials should be required to do their jobs. Then when they lift the level 5 restrictions they will be on a go slow and using the big backlog as an excuse not to process passports in a timely manner. Straight out of eastern europe 1980s


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> The RTE article says they pause.



Try again, they've paused non-emergency applications. The article and their website confirm emergency applications are being processed via the webchat facility.


----------



## RedOnion

I'd imagine the way they're positioning it is that for those where it's essential, they are providing a service.

As for other countries, it has evolved. I believe that in the US they suspended issuing passports at the end of March last year except in 'life or death' emergencies, and they had a backlog of over 1 million applications when they got back to normal. Even now, in cases that require an appointment, most application centres need proof of a 'life or death' emergency first. You can still apply by post etc, but being honest I know nothing about the US system and who can apply via each channel.


----------



## joe sod

Eu green  pass gathering momentum now, whatever nphet say there will be European holidays this year. Once other countries are open again they will not be able to stop it,  naming and shaming will be so last year. Even Mario rosenstock satirised nphet and the health experts last night on the LLS,  very funny


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

joe sod said:


> Eu green  pass gathering momentum now, whatever nphet say there will be European holidays this year. Once other countries are open again they will not be able to stop it,  naming and shaming will be so last year. Even Mario rosenstock satirised nphet and the health experts last night on the LLS,  very funny


We'll see, the outbreaks in Italy and Germany are on the rise again with Italy entering another national lockdown. 
Some are already calling it a "third wave".


----------



## Merowig

joe sod said:


> Eu green  pass gathering momentum now, whatever nphet say there will be European holidays this year. Once other countries are open again they will not be able to stop it,  naming and shaming will be so last year. Even Mario rosenstock satirised nphet and the health experts last night on the LLS,  very funny


I am already planning. And combine it if necessary with medical appointments abroad/business trip/ reserves training.
No way I am staying. Went as well last year for three weeks and it wasn't an issue nor did I felt ashamed. Someone my wife knows was in Mexico...
One colleague here is flying soon to Spain and will stay there for a bit and another colleague is planning to go to Italy shortly. If I would fly from Ireland to Romania I would not need a test any longer nor any quarantine - only on the return to here 

Yes outbreaks are on the rise again in Germany but also in the middle of the last wave people e.g. flew from Germany to Malta and then took a cruise. Completely legal.  Now Mallorca was downgraded in regards to risk and many are flying there for holidays.


----------



## Grizzly

Merowig said:


> I am already planning. And combine it if necessary with medical appointments abroad/business trip/ reserves training.
> No way I am staying. Went as well last year for three weeks and it wasn't an issue nor did I felt ashamed. Someone my wife knows was in Mexico...
> One colleague here is flying soon to Spain and will stay there for a bit and another colleague is planning to go to Italy shortly. If I would fly from Ireland to Romania I would not need a test any longer nor any quarantine - only on the return to here
> 
> Yes outbreaks are on the rise again in Germany but also in the middle of the last wave people e.g. flew from Germany to Malta and then took a cruise. Completely legal.  Now Mallorca was downgraded in regards to risk and many are flying there for holidays.


Certainly once I have my vaccination I will feel a lot better in myself, confidence wise to step on a plane again or walk through a crowded airport. I have been looking at the Balearic Islands, quiet places where I have stayed before. Maybe rent an apartment rather than stay in a hotel. Sit outside when eating or drinking. Even if I am vaccinated it will probably take me some time to get back to normal.....but I have to start sometime.


----------



## EasilyAmused

NPHET want the international travel ban to remain in place until the end of June.


----------



## joer

End of June if we are lucky but it makes sense. I will be happy enough to wait until next year though although I am looking forward  to travelling again.


----------



## Firefly

We made the decision before Xmas that we'd holiday in Ireland again this year as we didn't want the uncertainty of not knowing if we could travel abroad or not up to the last minute. Also, we didn't think we'd enjoy it as much abroad anyway, wearing masks keeping 2 meters etc. Last year we got a house in the west of Ireland and had a blast - we discounted the weather completely and treated any decent day as a bonus and just got on with it. We bought wetsuits and made eejits of ourselves waddling down to the water but didn't care. Brought some really good wine with us and had BBQs most nights. The kids had plenty hot chocolates & ice-cream. We played board games, read a lot and did stuff like stand up paddling and kayaking.

Obviously in normal times we'd be off to France but as this should be the last year of this malarkey we're happy enough in the old sod


----------



## joe sod

EasilyAmused said:


> NPHET want the international travel ban to remain in place until the end of June.


It's not what nphet say that will determine things but what Europe and the UK does. When European green pass is in place then people will travel. Nphet will be like bishop brennan trying to stop the film being shown in the craggy island cinema.


----------



## EasilyAmused

But if the Gardai are still present in Dublin Airport, each and every non-essential traveller will have to pay the €500 (or is it €2,000) fine.

To quote Withnail:
“Free to those that can afford it. Very expensive to those that can't


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> But if the Gardai are still present in Dublin Airport, each and every non-essential traveller will have to pay the €500 (or is it €2,000) fine.
> 
> To quote Withnail:
> “Free to those that can afford it. Very expensive to those that can't


It is easy enough to have one or multiple valid reasons for travelling. Perhaps not for everyone but that’s life .


----------



## joe sod

EasilyAmused said:


> But if the Gardai are still present in Dublin Airport, each and every non-essential traveller will have to pay the €500 (or is it €2,000) fine.


----------



## Merowig

After Romania now also Germany has downgraded the risk posed by people coming to Germany from Ireland


			https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Transport/Archiv_Risikogebiete/Risikogebiete_aktuell_en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile


----------



## Leo

I see a woman who went to Spain after the Gardai informed her of a credible threat to her life was hit with a fine on her return. Hopefully they're consistent with the fines for those faking medical or family reasons.


----------



## noproblem

Anyone know if those fines are being paid? Doesn't seem to be any link to data on it, they're just telling us how many fines have been "issued"


----------



## Merowig

Covid-19: 507 new cases, ten further deaths
					

The Department of Health has been notified of ten further deaths associated with Covid-19, with 507 additional confirmed cases.




					www.rte.ie
				





> Earlier, gardaí said they have issued more than 15,300 fines to people in breach of Covid-19 regulations to date, worth a total of over €1.9m.
> 
> By the end of yesterday, 466 fines of €500 had been issued for organising a house party to date - for a total of €233,000.
> 
> (...)
> 
> There were 11,072 fines of €100 for non-essential travel, for a total €1,107,200
> (...)
> 
> Gardaí issued a €100 fine on 262 occasions of non-essential travel by people not ordinarily resident in the state, for a total of €26,200.
> 
> People were fined €500 by gardaí for 636 non-essential journeys to airports and ports, worth €318,000.
> 
> This brings the total value of these fines to €1,982,220, while more than 700 other fines are currently being processed.
> (...)
> One third of fines have been paid, 3% are processing, 43% are within the 28-day payment period, while court orders have been issued for non-payment of 22% of fines.


Fines are issues and I assume most will be enforced / paid. No government says no to free money.


----------



## Leo

noproblem said:


> Anyone know if those fines are being paid? Doesn't seem to be any link to data on it, they're just telling us how many fines have been "issued"



Enforcement for non-payment is via the courts, so it takes time.


----------



## EasilyAmused

I assume it’s like most fines. If you don’t pay you are summoned to court. If you still don’t pay you go to prison for a few hours.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> I assume it’s like most fines. If you don’t pay you are summoned to court. If you still don’t pay you go to prison for a few hours.


are you seriously speaking here about hours?


----------



## EasilyAmused

Yes. I thought everyone know that????

What happens is is the judge hands down a two week sentence or similar, but the person is released a few hours later. 
In the door, do the paperwork, sit in a room, then out the door.


----------



## Merowig

Would not paying a fine count as criminal record?


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> Would not paying a fine count as criminal record?



On conviction, yes.


----------



## alwaysonit

Anybody have a source listing current countries that accept the quick and cheaper antigen test for entry, rather than insist on a PCR test?


----------



## EasilyAmused

Worth a read:








						Prospective summer holidaymakers warned 'think before you book'
					

Heavily discounted summer and Christmas 2021 holiday deals have people itching to book, but group warns of very real risk of disruptions due to coronavirus again




					www.irishexaminer.com


----------



## janezb

Hi, I still wouldn't go&not going for another few months. Better get a good book on meditation and chill on the sofa


----------



## odyssey06

EU digital certificate planned to allow travel for those vaccinated or with negative recent test


			https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1377561374822440960?s=19


----------



## joe sod

If they are going to allow vaccinated people travel which are by and large older people, then they need to allow people with negative pcr test to also travel and those tests should be free. Afterall getting a vaccine is free and government determined. I bet the decision of those private school teachers and the hysteria of the teacher unions about being moved out of priority vaccination is largely motivated by vaccine passports. They want get vaccinated in time for the summer holidays I think it is incredibly stupid of the eu to be suggesting this when less than 10% of people are vaccinated. This is creating a vaccine rat race


----------



## odyssey06

joe sod said:


> If they are going to allow vaccinated people travel which are by and large older people, then they need to allow people with negative pcr test to also travel and those tests should be free. Afterall getting a vaccine is free and government determined. I bet the decision of those private school teachers and the hysteria of the teacher unions about being moved out of priority vaccination is largely motivated by vaccine passports. They want get vaccinated in time for the summer holidays I think it is incredibly stupid of the eu to be suggesting this when less than 10% of people are vaccinated. This is creating a vaccine rat race


I think the intent of the cert\app is to track if you've been vaccinated, if you tested positive within last 6 months, or have had a negative pcr test recently.
Single point of reference.


----------



## EasilyAmused

I can’t see much continental travel this summer. Not with the way things are going in France, Germany, Italy, et cetera.


----------



## joer

I agree. Everywhere is too uncertain at present.


----------



## joe sod

EasilyAmused said:


> I can’t see much continental travel this summer. Not with the way things are going in France, Germany, Italy, et cetera.


but UK looked like that before Christmas but now with 50% vaccinated they are in a completely different boat, it will be same for Europe just a bit later. You can write off travel if you want to, but Im certainly not


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> I can’t see much continental travel this summer. Not with the way things are going in France, Germany, Italy, et cetera.


Germans are right now flying to Mallorca and Portugal. Travelling is happening and will further pick up - only because you don't travel doesn't mean others won't.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> Germans are right now flying to Mallorca and Portugal. Travelling is happening and will further pick up - only because you don't travel doesn't mean others won't.



TBF, things are rapidly improving in Germany. 
Both cases and deaths have roughly quartered since I made my comment.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> TBF, things are rapidly improving in Germany.
> Both cases and deaths have roughly quartered since I made my comment.


Or less reporting due to Easter. Some German states e.g. also paused vaccination as well due to Easter. In January Germans were flying to Malta to go on cruises....


----------



## EasilyAmused

I can see international travel being a source of ire this summer. A real division of the haves and the have-nots like we had in the 80ies. 
RyanAir really levelled the playing field making it affordable for all. But the €500 fine plus €1,800 quarantine stay could be beyond the reach of many.

Having said that, if you’ve been saving during the lockdown because there’s nowhere to spend your money, a family of four could cobble together the ten grand in jig time.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> I can see international travel being a source of ire this summer. A real division of the haves and the have-nots like we had in the 80ies.
> RyanAir really levelled the playing field making it affordable for all. But the €500 fine plus €1,800 quarantine stay could be beyond the reach of many.
> 
> Having said that, if you’ve been saving during the lockdown because there’s nowhere to spend your money, a family of four could cobble together the ten grand in jig time.


There are plenty of valid essential travel reasons and the hotel quarantine is not applied so far to every country.


----------



## EasilyAmused

I should clarify...
By “international travel” I refer to tourism. 

Sorry.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> I should clarify...
> By “international travel” I refer to tourism.
> 
> Sorry.


One can combine tourism with essential travel - I did that before Covid already and will continue to do that.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> One can combine tourism with essential travel - I did that before Covid already and will continue to do that.



Haven’t we all, eh? The good old days!

Alas that’s irrelevant in these Covid times. 

That would be like, let’s see, packing up the car for a day at the beach, driving to Gurteen Bay in Roundstone, being stopped by a Garda Covid checkpoint, and telling the Garda, “I’m visiting the graveyard in Roundstone”.
Combining business with pleasure back in the day doesn’t tally with combining restriction exceptions with pleasure during lockdown. 

BWT, for clarity, I’m in Cork, Roundstone is in County Galway.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> Haven’t we all, eh? The good old days!
> 
> Alas that’s irrelevant in these Covid times.
> 
> That would be like, let’s see, packing up the car for a day at the beach, driving to Gurteen Bay in Roundstone, being stopped by a Garda Covid checkpoint, and telling the Garda, “I’m visiting the graveyard in Roundstone”.
> Combining business with pleasure back in the day doesn’t tally with combining restriction exceptions with pleasure during lockdown.
> 
> BWT, for clarity, I’m in Cork, Roundstone is in County Galway.


If I travel to country x for Business, a doctors appointment and a training - and in between I go there to the mountains and visit cities - no way Garda will and can do anything.
Also even if you travel to X for visiting a grave, Garda will not ask you to open your car boot to check for beach towels. 
I do not see that irrelevant at all for Covid times.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> If I travel to country x for Business, a doctors appointment and a training - and in between I go there to the mountains and visit cities - no way Garda will and can do anything.


They can fine you €500 at the airport. Or on your return.  They’ve been doing it for weeks now.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> They can fine you €500 at the airport. Or on your return.  They’ve been doing it for weeks now.


If you had a valid reason for essential travel abroad you are not fined.
If I am able to prove doctors appointments, trainings etc all is good.


----------



## EasilyAmused

If there are no gaps in the dates, you’ll be grand. Don’t worry about it.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> If there are no gaps in the dates, you’ll be grand. Don’t worry about it.


Is  that codified in the law?

Even with gaps you can argue flights were not available.
If I have a training in country x - and you have a doctors appointment in 1 weeks time or so you can easily argue it is not reasonable to fly back quickly or that it was not possible. Also flights can be missed...
Or what happens if GP in country x gives you a sick note for 2 weeks... would be illegal if you are not sick  and the doctor would do it as a favour. But definitely it will happen and the Irish government can do nothing here.

The current law makes it more difficult and inconvenient - but everyone who wants to travel will so.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> Even with gaps you can *argue* flights were not available.



Good luck with that.


----------



## Purple

Merowig said:


> The current law makes it more difficult and inconvenient - but everyone who wants to travel will so.


In a free country laws usually merely make things more difficult and inconvenient to do. The idea is that most people just obey the law because it's the law. 
I want to travel but I won't because as I don't have a valid reason to do so and therefore it's against the law.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> Good luck with that.


Also Flights are still cancelled often enough - my colleagues flight to Spain was cancelled last month and she was able get squeezed on another one. For some countries you need now connection flights etc.
Who knows by summer the law might have been lifted as well.


----------



## Merowig

Purple said:


> In a free country laws usually merely make things more difficult and inconvenient to do. The idea is that most people just obey the law because it's the law.
> I want to travel but I won't because as I don't have a valid reason to do so and therefore it's against the law.


Yeah but others have valid reasons. And then it is obviously not against the law. Especially all the Non-Irish do not want to be locked in here indefinitely.


----------



## Purple

Merowig said:


> Yeah but others have valid reasons. And then it is obviously not against the law.


Sure. The law is there to prevent people going on holidays. Getting cosmetic surgery shouldn't be counted as a valid reason as it's not essential.


----------



## Merowig

Purple said:


> Sure. The law is there to prevent people going on holidays. Getting cosmetic surgery shouldn't be counted as a valid reason as it's not essential.


The law is here to prevent it but still has enough legal loop holes which can be used. If tax law has legal loop holes to be used they will be used as well. 
Some might it see it as immoral but that is highly subjective and the morality of the law can be argued as well... If the letter of the law if followed all is fine.

On your example with cosmetic surgery 
Even that isn't always the case - e.g. after an accident or acid attack this should count as essential. But afaik the law even doesn't distinguish here on the medical procedures/appointments.


----------



## Purple

Merowig said:


> The law is here to prevent it but still has enough legal loop holes which can be used. If tax law has legal loop holes to be used they will be used as well.
> Some might it see it as immoral but that is highly subjective and the morality of the law can be argued as well... If the letter of the law if followed all is fine.


Good example. If Revenue decide that the primary purpose of an activity is to evade tax then they will deem it to be tax evasion. You can cry all you like that you were in fact building a car park for sheep or that there was a very good reason for moving all that money around but if they say it's evasion then it's evasion.  
If you say that you had an essential reason to travel but the Gardaí disagree and a judge concurs then it wasn't essential and you'll be prosecuted accordingly.


----------



## Merowig

Purple said:


> If you say that you had an essential reason to travel but the Gardaí disagree and a judge concurs then it wasn't essential and you'll be prosecuted accordingly.


I agree with that. It will be case by case. Some are getting fined - others are not fined - depends all on the circumstances, "evidence" presented, how that evidence is presented and in what mood the Garda is you meet.


----------



## Purple

Merowig said:


> I agree with that. It will be case by case. Some are getting fined - others are not fined - depends all on the circumstances, "evidence" presented, how that evidence is presented and in what mood the Garda is you meet.


Thankfully the Gardaí frequently use their discretion on minor matters.


----------



## Purple

Merowig said:


> I agree with that. It will be case by case. Some are getting fined - others are not fined - depends all on the circumstances, "evidence" presented, how that evidence is presented and in what mood the Garda is you meet.


Thankfully the Gardaí frequently use their discretion on minor matters.


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> On your example with cosmetic surgery
> Even that isn't always the case - e.g. after an accident or acid attack this should count as essential. But afaik the law even doesn't distinguish here on the medical procedures/appointments.



When has an accident victim here ever had to go to the likes of Dubai for plastics? I'm afraid it's nonsense to suggest that might be a valid reason for international travel.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Leo said:


> When has an accident victim here ever had to go to the likes of Dubai for plastics?



Depends on who is paying for it. If it’s an insurance company you stay at home or go to New York. 
If you’re paying for it yourself you go to Dubai.


----------



## Leo

EasilyAmused said:


> Depends on who is paying for it. If it’s an insurance company you stay at home or go to New York.
> If you’re paying for it yourself you go to Dubai.



If it's essential, it'll be carried out in the state, and in Blanch for the serious cases.


----------



## Purple

Leo said:


> If it's essential, it'll be carried out in the state, and in Blanch for the serious cases.


If they are working in the adult entertainment industry is could be classified as both essential medical and essential work travel


----------



## Bronco Lane

I can't imagine myself sitting on a plane for over two hours wearing a face mask. Hot stuffy enclosed environment at the best of times.

I am not sure if those fully vaccinated will be allowed to not wear a mask on flights and how this might be monitored/implemented.

Anyone know if Ryanair have extended the life of their gift vouchers and replacement vouchers for cancelled flights?


----------



## Purple

Bronco Lane said:


> I can't imagine myself sitting on a plane for over two hours wearing a face mask. Hot stuffy enclosed environment at the best of times.


The entire volume of air in the cabin is filtered through HEPA filters every 2-3 minutes. That's the same system that's used in a hospital operating theatre. It kills over 99% of viruses, including those 10-15 times smaller than Covid19. It uses an Ozone purifier along with the filters to clean the air. Basically an aeroplane is a low risk environment as long as other safety measures are followed. 
The risk is infected people travelling to other countries, not people being infected on the plane.


----------



## joe sod

Purple said:


> Sure. The law is there to prevent people going on holidays. Getting cosmetic surgery shouldn't be counted as a valid reason as it's not essential.


Just shows you how our values have changed since a year ago, if these girls were exposed like that a year ago the media would have been called misogynistic for targeting them because they were young women going for cosmetic surgery. However because they chose to  brake the most holy of holy's now "the covid" and "the quarantine" rules they have been tarred and feathered. It's then open season to ridicule them for going to Dubai for a breast enhancement, 
This hysteria has been going on for  a year now, the Italian rugby supporters, the Bulgarian fruit pickers, the dubs going to wexford, the barman in the Berlin bar, golfgate, etc etc.
Yes these girls were wrong but it was shocking to expose them like that as if they were violent criminals.


----------



## Leo

joe sod said:


> them because they were young women going for cosmetic surgery.


Or they just booked an appointment like the many booking dental appointments in Spanish resorts with no intention of showing up just so they can have their holiday?


----------



## joe sod

@Leo good point , that never crossed my mind,


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

joe sod said:


> Just shows you how our values have changed since a year ago, if these girls were exposed like that a year ago the media would have been called misogynistic for targeting them because they were young women going for cosmetic surgery. However because they chose to  brake the most holy of holy's now "the covid" and "the quarantine" rules they have been tarred and feathered. It's then open season to ridicule them for going to Dubai for a breast ***********,
> This hysteria has been going on for  a year now, the Italian rugby supporters, the Bulgarian fruit pickers, the dubs going to wexford, the barman in the Berlin bar, golfgate, etc etc.
> Yes these girls were wrong but it was shocking to expose them like that as if they were violent criminals.


They deserved everything that came their way. 
None of this would have happened to them had they remained here, they thought they were above the rules.


----------



## EmmDee

Paul O Mahoney said:


> They deserved everything that came their way.
> None of this would have happened to them had they remained here, they thought they were above the rules.



Worse than that really - even having travelled, nothing would have happened if they just accepted the implications. Or gone through the process to appeal. The reason they were in the news and the courts was because they essentially tried to a runner


----------



## EasilyAmused

Bronco Lane said:


> I am not sure if those fully vaccinated will be allowed to not wear a mask on flights and how this might be monitored/implemented.



From what I’ve gathered, masks and social distancing will be with us for a few years to come, long after national herd immunity has been achieved. 

I read an article this morning where a Cork events organiser said, “there is no outlook for this year and we will be lucky to be back in action by St Patrick’s Day 2022”.


----------



## Purple

EasilyAmused said:


> I read an article this morning where a Cork events organiser said, “there is no outlook for this year and we will be lucky to be back in action by St Patrick’s Day 2022”.


So most of the old people we are trying to protect will be dead anyway...


----------



## joer

I heard that the Dubai two flew out in 30A and 30B and came back in 38D and 38E ....


----------



## noproblem

Purple said:


> So most of the old people we are trying to protect will be dead anyway...


And what about yourself?


----------



## Purple

noproblem said:


> And what about yourself?


I never thought I'd see 40. Heading for 50 now but don't think I'll see that either. I'm like a ray of sunshine when I start going on like that around the kids.


----------



## EasilyAmused

joer said:


> I heard that the Dubai two flew out in 30A and 30B and came back in 38D and 38E ....


The Irish media are making a mountain out of a molehill.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Some good news:
France, Italy, Turkey, Canada and USA added to the mandatory quarantine lists. 
Germany escapes this time.


----------



## joer

I think that what is happening with that Israeli girl , who had to quarantine in a hotel, is completely wrong though. 
She should be free to go and should have never been held up in a hotel in the first place.


----------



## EasilyAmused

I’m not familiar with this case. 
There has been a spike in cases in Israel in recent weeks. That’s good enough for me.


----------



## joer

Even though she had her two vaccinations and a neg test all with the proof required.
That should be enough for the powers- that- be.


----------



## odyssey06

Not implying the woman from Israel isnt legit. Ideally she wouldnt have to quarantine. But is there an official document recognised by the EU or Ireland as a vaccine cert?


----------



## EasilyAmused

Just read the article. 
Like many Covid restrictions, they are blunt, blanket measures. 
A large portion of the reason for the mandatory quarantine is as a travel deterrent. 
She has stated that she didn’t realise there was mandatory quarantine. To that all I can say is, “ignorance is no excuse”.


----------



## joer

if I was in her position I would be very disappointed to  have to quarantine if I had the vaccination received. What is the point in getting it at all if one cannot travel to any country. You still have to wear masks etc. and that is fine.


----------



## EasilyAmused

joer said:


> What is the point in getting it at all if one cannot travel to any country.



To protect herself, and to a lesser extent, to protect those around her.

Don’t forget, a vaccination is not a silver bullet. It’s just another weapon in the fight against COVID-19.


----------



## joer

I think that you are missing the point though. We all have to protect ourselves and others and we all do everything we can to do so. 
If and when I receive my vaccination I would expect to be able to travel too, safely , of course, and not have to quarantine .


----------



## EasilyAmused

Time will tell.


----------



## joe sod

joer said:


> if I was in her position I would be very disappointed to  have to quarantine if I had the vaccination received. What is the point in getting it at all if one cannot travel to any country. You still have to wear masks etc. and that is fine.


Now they have taken Israel off the mandatory hotel quarantine list after it was successfully challenged by two people that were fully vaccinated, fair play to those people. They still haven't explained the criteria of why some countries are being included and why Israel with the most successful vaccination program globally was included initially. 
They are doing all this a year too late anyway and after 4000 Brazilians have arrived anyway since before the quarantine was brought in. They are trying to fight the last war rather than concentrating exclusively on getting out the vaccines and stopping the queue jumping and messing that's going on with the vaccines. The ridiculous talk of vaccine passports has only encouraged the queue jumping.


----------



## RedOnion

joe sod said:


> Now they have taken Israel off the mandatory hotel quarantine list after it was successfully challenged by two people that were fully vaccinated, fair play to those people


No, that is not the order in which it happened.

It had already been stated last week that Israel was going to be removed from the list, which strengthened the challenge of those 2 people who were in quarantine.

The change this morning is that those from the 3 countries being removed from the list who are already in quarantine do not have to remain in quarantine.


----------



## EasilyAmused

joe sod said:


> They still haven't explained the criteria of why some countries are being included and why Israel with the most successful vaccination program globally was included initially.


It’s based on a country’s 14-day incidence rate. There had been a spike recently in Israel but the cases numbers have now dropped to an acceptable level.


----------



## Sophrosyne

joe sod said:


> They still haven't explained the criteria of why some countries are being included



Countries may be added to the “mandatory quarantine list” in accordance with the Health Amendment Act 2021

Section 38E of that act defines those countries as:

“The Minister may designate in writing any state (in this Act referred to as a “designated state”) where there is known to be sustained human transmission of Covid-19 or any variant of concern or from which there is a high risk of importation of infection or contamination with Covid-19 or any variant of concern by travel from that state.

In other words, the presence of either high case numbers *or* variant strains of concern will result in red listing.


----------



## Franc1

Tonight it has been announced that the rugby game will go ahead next weekend, so you have the full female rugby team and entourage flying in from France and not subjected to the mandatory quarantine, while the average Joe, vaccinated , showing a negative tests is facing a 14 day mandatory quarantine in a hotel at his own expenses. Where is the sense in all this ? A rule to prevent the virus from abroad which only applies to specific people but not others.


----------



## EmmDee

Franc1 said:


> Tonight it has been announced that the rugby game will go ahead next weekend, so you have the full female rugby team and entourage flying in from France and not subjected to the mandatory quarantine, while the average Joe, vaccinated , showing a negative tests is facing a 14 day mandatory quarantine in a hotel at his own expenses. Where is the sense in all this ? A rule to prevent the virus from abroad which only applies to specific people but not others.



They are kept in an extremely tightly controlled environment with little to no contact with anybody outside their bubble and under strict protocols with regular testing. In effect they are isolating while here and then travelling back.

If your "average Joe" was willing to put in place the same protocols it would be a lot more expensive than the hotel stay


----------



## EasilyAmused

Franc1 said:


> Where is the sense in all this ? A rule to prevent the virus from abroad which only applies to specific people but not others.



The government have to allow exceptions. If there were no exceptions, we’d effectively be following a Zero Covid approach.


----------



## Purple

EasilyAmused said:


> The government have to allow exceptions. If there were no exceptions, we’d effectively be following a Zero Covid approach.


Exactly. Foreign officials, Truck Drivers, Essential workers etc can all travel here without going through quarantine.


----------



## Leo

Franc1 said:


> while the average Joe, vaccinated , showing a negative tests is facing a 14 day mandatory quarantine in a hotel at his own expenses.


There's a huge difference in the risk profile of an average Joe and those travelling with these rugby teams. Lots of people have been ignoring the risks and inconvenience of the restrictions on everyone else and going away on holidays, you want to trust some piece of paper they present to state they have been vaccinated?


----------



## Merowig

Leo said:


> you want to trust some piece of paper they present to state they have been vaccinated?


Yes as it is done in other countries with e.g. Yellow fever vaccination.









						Green pass: how are Covid vaccine passports working for Israel?
					

As hotels and gyms reopen in Israel, governments elsewhere are considering a similar certificate scheme – raising ethical concern




					www.theguardian.com
				



They seem to have a QR code for digital verification  - perhaps already too much high tech for Ireland though...


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> Yes as it is done in other countries with e.g. Yellow fever vaccination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green pass: how are Covid vaccine passports working for Israel?
> 
> 
> As hotels and gyms reopen in Israel, governments elsewhere are considering a similar certificate scheme – raising ethical concern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to have a QR code for digital verification  - perhaps already too much high tech for Ireland though...



You know anyone can create those QR codes, right? Unless they open their IT system and give the rest of the world access to their data, there is no verification. 

That's the biggest challenge  with the idea of Covid passports, how do you make the data available only to those who need it? How to you pollice shadow apps that just look like the real thing? 

A secure global system would be unlikely to get universal approval, cost billions and take so long to develop that it would likely be obsolete before it's ready. If we look to develop a similar system for use here, I'd hope we give a little more thought to information security than Israel did.


----------



## Merowig

Leo said:


> You know anyone can create those QR codes, right? Unless they open their IT system and give the rest of the world access to their data, there is no verification.
> 
> That's the biggest challenge  with the idea of Covid passports, how do you make the data available only to those who need it? How to you pollice shadow apps that just look like the real thing?
> 
> A secure global system would be unlikely to get universal approval, cost billions and take so long to develop that it would likely be obsolete before it's ready. If we look to develop a similar system for use here, I'd hope we give a little more thought to information security than Israel did.


QR Codes contain information or can be a link to a specific website - e.g. secure connection to a website hosted by the Israeli Health ministry confirming that person XY is vaccinated.
I have significantly more trust in Israeli Cybersecurity and capabilities than in Irelands ones but never mind.
On the Yellow Fewer vaccine requirements some countries have -  these are done for years and years without any application - based on a piece of paper/stamp/etc.


----------



## Leo

Merowig said:


> QR Codes contain information or can be a link to a specific website - e.g. secure connection to a website hosted by the Israeli Health ministry confirming that person XY is vaccinated.



Exactly, they're just a fancy barcode, anyone can reproduce. What you're suggesting then with the link is that every country in the world publish a database with lots of details on their entire population, sufficient to differentiate one John Murphy from the next. So addresses, DOBs, passport numbers? You see the problem yet?



Merowig said:


> I have significantly more trust in Israeli Cybersecurity and capabilities than in Irelands ones but never mind.



You clearly have little understanding of the issues exposed with their app so. Don't confuse their advanced surveillance and monitoring capabilities with data protection.


----------



## Merowig

State facing pressure from EU countries after expanding quarantine list
					

Greencore chief Patrick Coveney accuses Government of ‘incompetence and lack of foresight’




					www.irishtimes.com
				




"There has also been rising criticism from business people about the travel restrictions, including from Greencore chief executive Patrick Coveney who said it was “hard to overstate the incompetence and lack of foresight” in the Government’s mandatory hotel quarantine plan."


I do not see travel restrictions on EU countries to be in for the longer term.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> State facing pressure from EU countries after expanding quarantine list
> 
> 
> Greencore chief Patrick Coveney accuses Government of ‘incompetence and lack of foresight’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irishtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "...including from Greencore chief executive Patrick Coveney ...
> 
> 
> I do not see travel restrictions on EU countries to be in for the longer term.



Good the see him backing up his brother’s stance on this. 
(Despite Stephexplaining there is cabinet consensus).


----------



## Merowig

European Commission contacts Ireland on ‘concerns’ over hotel quarantine
					

State’s discriminatory and excessive system should be revoked - Italian ambassador




					www.irishtimes.com
				




I wouldn't be surprised it is gone by summer if not earlier.
Ireland is the only EU country doing that.


----------



## Franc1

Yes it looks like these measures have been introduced without any background work. The countries have been added in a rather arbitrary way without defining how long the measures will be in place, and I wonder which criteria they have used to add these countries, for example in Germany the cases have been increasing steadily since March but Germany is not on the MHQ list. In Italy they have been decreasing since March but it's in the list. Israel was in the list until last week despite the cases decreasing steadily since January. Also Ireland looks like it's the only country in the EU to adopt such drastic measures. I also think they will be short lived , they make no sense especially when there is very lax control in-country with large gathering of students in the weekends partying and people more or less travelling freely, only facing a fine of 100€ vs fines of 400€ or 500€ in other EU countries.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> I wouldn't be surprised it is gone by summer if not earlier.
> Ireland is the only EU country doing that.


Hasn’t Germany closed it’s borders with the Czech Republic?

Anyway, I agree with you. It’s like that silly “traffic light” system we had last summer. Or that other concept that never got off the ground (npi), was it air bridges or air bubbles or something.

This is something that should have been done 12 months ago, or before Christmas.


----------



## stefanop

True, while India with over a billion people, little control, and where the cases have increased tenfold in the last two weeks it's not on the mandatory hotel quarantine list, so if you fly in from Bombay you can quarantine at home, if you fly in from Brussells or Paris you have to go two weeks in a hotel at your expenses. I wonder how the HMQ countries have been picked ? Probably by a throw of the dice


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> Hasn’t Germany closed it’s borders with the Czech Republic?
> 
> Anyway, I agree with you. It’s like that silly “traffic light” system we had last summer. Or that other concept that never got off the ground (npi), was it air bridges or air bubbles or something.
> 
> This is something that should have been done 12 months ago, or before Christmas.


It's not a complete border closure.
Not like Ireland  with Hotel Quarantine - friend of mine living in Germany was before Easter send to Czech for two weeks. After his return he had to stay at home for two weeks. Also was not locked into a hotel with strangers and paying for that prison out of his own pocket as Ireland does...
He went last Monday again to Czech - he installs machines for a living.
Commuting to / from work for certain job areas over the border is possible without quarantine - but you need tests.

Any one who wants to come to Ireland and avoid hotel quarantine just needs to take a flight or boat to Northern Ireland. Shouldn't be much of a problem then to cross the border...


----------



## stefanop

Yes the all this is a huge farce. It shows the level of incompetence of the government. So I think next week or in two weeks' time all pubs in Northern Ireland, all restaurants, will open you will have crowds of young people moving from the republic gathering in the pubs in Northern Ireland and then coming back into the republic without checks, still if you come from 5 EU countries you have to mandatory quarantine in the hotel.


----------



## noproblem

Registered on the online portal yesterday and very happy about it. Both my wife and myself now await a date for injection. One note for couples who want to register on the same day is to leave 10 minutes between registrations or it will keep going back to the 1st named. Otherwise a very easy process. 
The Goverment may not have got everything right over the past year on this Covid catastrophe, who has? but praise where it's due. Huge strides are being made and there's no doubt the light is beginning to appear at the end of the tunnel and for that I say, well done to all and Thank you.


----------



## odyssey06

_The High Court has ruled that a South African woman who challenged her detention in hotel quarantine is being detained lawfully.
Mr Justice Brian O'Moore said he had come to the view that the legislation being challenged on her behalf did not breach the Constitution._









						Court rules woman in quarantine is being held lawfully
					

The High Court has ruled that a South African woman who challenged her detention in hotel quarantine is being detained lawfully.




					www.rte.ie


----------



## almostthere

I see that the Government is to promote Staycation holidays this year. They are talking about scraping last years tax back scheme or whatever it was called, for a more user friendly scheme this season.

There have been the usual travel journalists promoting Irish holidays etc.

I would love to see one of these journalists or any journalist make a list of 10 hotels and price a holiday in mid August at today's prices and then price the same stay when the Government's new scheme is revealed.


----------



## noproblem

almostthere said:


> I see that the Government is to promote Staycation holidays this year. They are talking about scraping last years tax back scheme or whatever it was called, for a more user friendly scheme this season.
> 
> There have been the usual travel journalists promoting Irish holidays etc.
> 
> I would love to see one of these journalists or any journalist make a list of 10 hotels and price a holiday in mid August at today's prices and then price the same stay when the Government's new scheme is revealed.


Nothing to stop you doing it yourself.


----------



## almostthere

noproblem said:


> Nothing to stop you doing it yourself.


I anticipated that response.  

I don't have the reach that travel journalists/journalists have to the wider public.


----------



## noproblem

almostthere said:


> I anticipated that response.
> 
> I don't have the reach that travel journalists/journalists have to the wider public.


Don't underestimate the power of "Ask about money", you reached me


----------



## EasilyAmused

almostthere said:


> I see that the Government is to promote Staycation holidays this year. They are talking about scraping last years tax back scheme or whatever it was called, for a more user friendly scheme this season.
> 
> There have been the usual travel journalists promoting Irish holidays etc.
> 
> I would love to see one of these journalists or any journalist make a list of 10 hotels and price a holiday in mid August at today's prices and then price the same stay when the Government's new scheme is revealed.



I don’t know anyone that availed of that scheme last year. IIRC it didn’t start ‘til August and we were back in lockdown by October.

I’d say mid-August prices will be unaffected anyway because from what I hear, on radio and anecdotally, every hotel is booked solid.

Anyway, a “staycation” is a stay at home vacation. If they are to incentivise it I’d assume it won’t be accommodation based. Rather dining, entry fees, etc.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

__





						Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
					





					www.bloomberg.com
				




If this were to happen it will probably be both ways.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Paul O Mahoney said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this were to happen it will probably be both ways.



I might be wrong, but I assume EU countries rely a lot more on US tourist dollars than the US relies on European tourists.


----------



## Merowig

EasilyAmused said:


> Anyway, a “staycation” is a stay at home vacation. If they are to incentivise it I’d assume it won’t be accommodation based. Rather dining, entry fees, etc.


Doesn't attract me to be honest - and any scheme won't compensate at least for myself for the typical August weather here in Ireland, etc etc ....









						Ryanair may cancel Irish routes over quarantine
					

Ryanair has said it is considering cancelling a number of Irish routes as a result of the mandatory hotel quarantine system.




					www.rte.ie
				



thats an interesting move

And India still isn't yet on the hotel  quarantine list?


----------



## EasilyAmused

Merowig said:


> Ryanair may cancel Irish routes over quarantine
> 
> 
> Ryanair has said it is considering cancelling a number of Irish routes as a result of the mandatory hotel quarantine system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rte.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats an interesting move
> 
> And India still isn't yet on the hotel  quarantine list?



Dunno about elsewhere but RyanAir won’t be operating out of Cork this year. The airport is closed completely for four months anyway.

I think the hotel quarantine is updated just once a week. I assume India will be added the next time. 
They celebrated defeating the virus a few weeks ago. Things changed fast. There’s a new variant found too which has been detected in Ireland.


----------



## alwaysonit

Has anybody looked into travelling somewhere with an antigen test rather than the expensive PCR test?
From this link, Poland, Sweden, Lithuania, Croatia, Slovenia and Bulgaria all accept it.
I imagine it would have to be certified by a professional rather than done at home - how much would this cost?


----------



## Leo

alwaysonit said:


> Has anybody looked into travelling somewhere with an antigen test rather than the expensive PCR test?
> From this link, Poland, Sweden, Lithuania, Croatia, Slovenia and Bulgaria all accept it.
> I imagine it would have to be certified by a professional rather than done at home - how much would this cost?



The accuracy of some of the antigen tests in non-trained hands is down around 50%, but both are offered in Dublin airport. Antigen testing is €89 versus PCR at €129.


----------



## Feria50

A test would definitely need to a carried out by a professional.

Randox Galway now have express PCR (results next morning) at €89 and Antigen for €49 (one hour results).

I am due to travel to Poland this Summer and they accept antigen. From what I can see online, a negative antigen test completed within 48 hours of departure also means that you do not need to self isolate at all upon entry to Poland (some great cities and resorts that make for a great and reasonably priced holiday).

Its amazing really when you compare that approach to our own.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Feria50 said:


> Its amazing really when you compare that approach to our own.



Poland’s Covid deaths per million is 1,860.  This is very high, even worse then the USA.
They have a land border with Czechia (third highest death rate worldwide) and are very close to Hungary (worse death rate).

Ours is not perfect, but Poland  could have save many lives by following our approach (fewer than 1,000 dpm).


----------



## Purple

EasilyAmused said:


> Ours is not perfect, but Poland could have save many lives by following our approach (fewer than 1,000 dpm).


What, become an island?


----------



## joe sod

@alwaysonit that's good that you can go to those destinations with an antigen test but you still have to get by the guards at Dublin airport, maybe they will be gone by June ? I also see the electric picnic promoter is planning on going ahead with this year's festival combined with antigen testing after the successful trial concert in Liverpool last week


----------



## Feria50

@EasilyAmused To be fair I am thinking about the here and now rather than passed mistakes & lessons.

If it was possible to get metrics say from December 1st 2020 to today I expect the results might be different. Every country has changed their pandemic management approach on several occasions since March 2020 so there is no point comparing past performance (I don't mean that in a flippant way).

Sticking purely with Poland, their current incidence rate is higher than ours but has been falling for the past few weeks. The wave we experienced in January simply took a little longer to travel across the rest of Europe.

Staying with the hear and now, Poland has exactly the same % of vaccinations administered as we do and in an Irish context we know that this has had a huge impact on death rate and hospitalistations.

Anyway I simply think our approach to travel is overkill at present from a risk/reward perspective but its only when we look back in future will we know the answer


----------



## EasilyAmused

Purple said:


> What, become an island?


International travel restrictions.


----------



## EasilyAmused

Feria50 said:


> To be fair I am thinking about the here and now rather than passed mistakes & lessons.
> 
> If it was possible to get metrics say from December 1st 2020 to today I expect the results might be different.



12 months ago Czechia was the poster boy of Europe.
Now they’ve the third worst DPM worldwide.


----------



## Feria50

@joe sod hopefully the first week of June but time will tell. If its simply rolled on for another period of time again without any 'roadmap' then I know I'll be booking via Belfast so that I can have certainty.


----------



## Feria50

@EasilyAmused ok but I am talking about right now in Ireland where over 35% of the adult population (comprised mainly of the most elderly and vulnerable) have received a vaccine and comparing us to Poland where the vaccination rate is similar. BTW Spain is in excess of 40% and Germany I think has hit 50%. 

Given the way the roll-out is speeding up across Europe I dont think an arbitary €2k fine for travelling to an airport is fair given that you will need a negative test of one type or another before departure and again before arrival back.

Covid will continue to circulate and we typically have in the region of 500 cases a day despite the travel restictions that are in place. This might increase with the current reopening and might also increase with reduced international travel restrictions but its the hospitalisations and death rate that matter.

Just to be clear I am not advocating in anyway for the removal of travel restictions altogether. I just feel that given the point we have reached, our restictions are particularly onerous in the context of EU travel


----------



## EasilyAmused

B1617.2 may scupper international travel plans:









						Summer holidays Ireland: Indian Covid variant may dash summer travel hopes
					

The Indian variant of Covid-19 threatens to scupper the Government’s hopes of a return to foreign travel later in the summer.




					m.independent.ie


----------



## EasilyAmused

The cabinet are set to make a decision on international travel tomorrow. Most likely they’ll adopt the EU green vax cert system.


----------



## Grizzly

It seems that those with a double jab will receive a vaccine passport allowing you to travel without restrictions....however does *without* restrictions mean, that you will not have to have a PCR test on leaving the country and one when entering another EU country?  Also will you need one on returning home?


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Bit of humour,  the BBC is reporting that Portugal is coming off the UKs Green list , moving to Amber.

However countries added are Afghanistan and Sudan to name 2.....of many obscure countries.

Afghanistan in June great fortnight.

 EDIT:Apologies Afghanistan and Sudan were added to the Red list. Long Day took a bus today first time since November 2019


----------



## Laramie

News Digest: France Opens its Borders to Vaccinated Travellers - FrenchEntrée
					

The latest on France’s traffic light classification for travel, vaccines, the Health Passport, and the third stage of the nationwide reopening.




					www.frenchentree.com
				




Some updates from France.


----------



## alwaysonit

Any idea if translation of the negative PCR test is needed?
It's not mentioned on gov.ie so I'm assuming not.


----------



## Purple

Why is just about every other country in the EU, the USA and the UK opening up air travel using rapid antigen testing but we are not?
What does Tony & Co. know that everyone else doesn't?


----------



## kinnjohn

Purple said:


> Why is just about every other country in the EU, the USA and the UK opening up air travel using rapid antigen testing but we are not?
> What does Tony & Co. know that everyone else doesn't?


We Irish are not like the EU USA or the UK we like to give out about our government between elections, Then after an Election, we expect the next Government to be exactly like the one that called the Election,

 I do it myself vote for the people who I know will waste my tax money and design  systems to exist to transfer as much of the hard-earned cash as possible out of my pocket to vested interest and do nothing to stop it,

  hoping I like most  see looking after vested interest lobby  is in my best interest,


----------



## Purple

kinnjohn said:


> I do it myself vote for the people who I know will waste my tax money and design systems to exist to transfer as much of the hard-earned cash as possible out of my pocket to vested interest and do nothing to stop it, hoping I like most see looking after vested interest is good


I vote purely on economic grounds, knowing that the vested interest groups are more powerful than any government I pick the Party I think will do least harm.
On this issue I see a government which is a prisoner to unelected experts who give advice on one specific area, a government which should frame that advice in a broader societal and economic context but is afraid to do so.


----------



## kinnjohn

At present in Ireland, You don't have to be a very powerful vested interest group to get your way, the Government start to roll over when the see them coming,
Seeing this thread is about travelling ,
When you go out to vote again remember politicians know a wealthy traveler fears an ambush one with almost empty pockets journeys on in safety,


 To Quote Albert Einstein,
An empty stomach is not a good political Advisor,


----------



## Prosper

Purple said:


> Why is just about every other country in the EU, the USA and the UK opening up air travel using rapid antigen testing but we are not?


Maybe because there are a fair rate of false negatives with antigen tests and they are worried about legal action like has happened with cervical smears. You can't have "absolute confidence" with antigen tests. See attached.








						Judge rules for ‘absolute confidence’ in screening programmes’ all-clear results
					

Court threshold could be applied in dozens of cases of alleged misreading of smear tests




					www.irishtimes.com


----------



## kinnjohn

Did the Government at the time appeal the ruling or just let it stand,

They could have put it to the people to decide and point out the downside if let stand,

 if we did not mind paying the future price of the Judge's ruling pay up, Time we grew up as a nation and start paying for our actions or inaction,


----------



## kinnjohn

Prosper said:


> Maybe because there are a fair rate of false negatives with antigen tests and they are worried about legal action like has happened with cervical smears. You can't have "absolute confidence" with antigen tests. See attached.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judge rules for ‘absolute confidence’ in screening programmes’ all-clear results
> 
> 
> Court threshold could be applied in dozens of cases of alleged misreading of smear tests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irishtimes.com


Who is behind this not the government,

If it had anything to do with the above link  they should come out and say so,

I just noticed the advice not to use the antigen tests is not coming from the government,


----------



## joe sod

The biggest issue is guards at the airport asking you why you are travelling and handing out a fine if it is non essential, thats extraordinary by international standards. Most countries have restrictions on entering the country not on leaving it. Its like a throwback to the Soviet union  , "Can I see your permission ? Where are you going ? _Cuba  _Carry on Comrade


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Purple said:


> Why is just about every other country in the EU, the USA and the UK opening up air travel using rapid antigen testing but we are not?
> What does Tony & Co. know that everyone else doesn't?


I don't know what Nphet knows or doesn't but here is an article that should explain the views of both sides of the issue.






						Science | AAAS
					






					www.sciencemag.org
				




It would appear that the PCR test is much more sensitive in the detection of the virus antibodies at 98% while the minimum requirement for antigen tests is 80%.

It also says that the virus enters our cells in 2 places which apparently makes accuracy an issue.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

joe sod said:


> The biggest issue is guards at the airport asking you why you are travelling and handing out a fine if it is non essential, thats extraordinary by international standards. Most countries have restrictions on entering the country not on leaving it. Its like a throwback to the Soviet union  , "Can I see your permission ? Where are you going ? _Cuba  _Carry on Comrade


Joe we have imported all our cases but some people still decided to travel on holiday or  for "dental appointments " but never showed up. You had your wan coming back from Dubai who went there during a lockdown. 
What are the Government to do? 
To equate this country as a communist state is infantile claptrap. Everyone wants to see this virus controlled and life getting back to "normal " and if some think they are individually more important than the rest of the population then fines should the minimum consequences, punishment should be much more severe.


----------



## Ceist Beag

joe sod said:


> The biggest issue is guards at the airport asking you why you are travelling and handing out a fine if it is non essential, thats extraordinary by international standards.


No Joe that is not the biggest issue, not by a long shot. There are many bigger issues, one of which are the selfish me feiners who engage in non essential travel for their own gratification and to hell with the rest of us.


----------



## Purple

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I don't know what Nphet knows or doesn't but here is an article that should explain the views of both sides of the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science | AAAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencemag.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear that the PCR test is much more sensitive in the detection of the virus antibodies at 98% while the minimum requirement for antigen tests is 80%.
> 
> It also says that the virus enters our cells in 2 places which apparently makes accuracy an issue.


I fail to see how an additional test which is 80% accurate is a bad thing. Nobody is suggesting that it replaces PCR testing.
The way to view it is that if the test is positive then you have the disease. If the test is negative then you may or may not have it.


----------



## Sunny

Paul O Mahoney said:


> I don't know what Nphet knows or doesn't but here is an article that should explain the views of both sides of the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science | AAAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencemag.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear that the PCR test is much more sensitive in the detection of the virus antibodies at 98% while the minimum requirement for antigen tests is 80%.
> 
> It also says that the virus enters our cells in 2 places which apparently makes accuracy an issue.


That article is from over a year ago. There has been significant change since then. NPHET seem to think that it is a case of either or when it comes to PCR and Antigen testing. They also seem to think that the majority of the country are too thick to realise that a negative Antigen test is not a green light to ignore all public health guidelines. And yet we are smart enough to realise that a negative PCR test doesn't mean we can ignore the same rules. Antigen testing will capture people with high viral loads or when they are most infectious. Yes they will miss some positive cases and everyone accepts that. A PCR test will give a positive long after someone with Covid is infectious. I could get covid, quarantine for my 14 days and still get a positive PCR test weeks later so is not perfect either when talking about reopening.

It is not a choice between the two tests. They can be used together. I heard someone say, you want to diagnose Covid, then use a PCR test. You want to stop the spread of covid, then use widespread antigen testing. We already use it some work places like meat plants where there haven't been outbreaks in months and case numbers are low so I struggle to see the logic of why a wider role for the tests in society seems to cause such disdain. Having NPHET call them 'Snake Oil' was highly irresponsible.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Purple said:


> I fail to see how an additional test which is 80% accurate is a bad thing. Nobody is suggesting that it replaces PCR testing.
> The way to view it is that if the test is positive then you have the disease. If the test is negative then you may or may not have it.


But are the ones available to us at 80% ?

Frankly I don't know and reading the article only one test has gotten authorisation in the US. I really don't know if the ones being sold here are approved.


----------



## Purple

Paul O Mahoney said:


> But are the ones available to us at 80% ?
> 
> Frankly I don't know and reading the article only one test has gotten authorisation in the US. I really don't know if the ones being sold here are approved.


So why are Canada and the USA and the UK and much of the EU using them? What does Tony know that the rest don't?

I know we think we have a 'World Class Education System' but are we really so delusional that we think our doctors and scientists are better than those in the aforementioned countries?


----------



## Leo

Paul O Mahoney said:


> But are the ones available to us at 80% ?


And 80% is only achievable when those carrying out the tests are clinically trained. That just refers to missed positive cases, as the rate of prevalence drops in the community, any test with a specificity below 100% gives you a higher false-positive rate. If you reach a point where prevalence is at .1%, with a 98% specifity test most of the positives are false.


----------



## joe sod

Ceist Beag said:


> No Joe that is not the biggest issue, not by a long shot. There are many bigger issues, one of which are the selfish me feiners who engage in non essential travel for their own gratification and to hell with the rest of us.


In terms of foreign travel I was talking about, of course there are bigger issues. To insult people as "selfish me feiners" just because we are being critical of these unique Irish restrictions is over the top. Surely the emphasis should be on people entering the country not leaving, after all when Irish people were being fined for wanting to travel to relatively safe European destinations, Indian people were able to enter the country without having to enter mandatory hotel quarantine. That's why I am ridiculing these particular restrictions .


----------



## Ceist Beag

joe sod said:


> To insult people as "selfish me feiners" just because we are being critical of these unique Irish restrictions is over the top


I would ask you to read my post again - I think it is quite clear who I was targeting with that label.


----------



## demoivre

Purple said:


> Why is just about every other country in the EU, the USA and the UK opening up air travel using rapid antigen testing but we are not?
> What does Tony & Co. know that everyone else doesn't?


That the eventual enquiry in to what happened in Care Homes will reflect badly on those who didn't embrace Antigen testing, which undoubtedly imo, would have saved lives had they been extensively used.


----------



## IsleOfMan

I assume at this stage that the "government" have the machines, paper, ink, software ready to go for our vaccination passports?

They have had plenty of notice.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

IsleOfMan said:


> I assume at this stage that the "government" have the machines, paper, ink, software ready to go for our vaccination passports?
> 
> They have had plenty of notice.


They are in the main are going to be digital, so the need for ink etc will be minimal.


----------



## IsleOfMan

Paul O Mahoney said:


> They are in the main are going to be digital, so the need for ink etc will be minimal.


Yes, I know.....I was being flippant.

There is no reason why they should not be ready to go....... alongside other Eu countries.


----------



## SoylentGreen

Which countries are using the EU's COVID travel pass?
					

All EU member states are expected to have signed up by July to ensure seamless COVID-free travel across the continent.




					www.euronews.com
				




Anyone know what stage this country is at in producing this travel certificate?


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

SoylentGreen said:


> Which countries are using the EU's COVID travel pass?
> 
> 
> All EU member states are expected to have signed up by July to ensure seamless COVID-free travel across the continent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know what stage this country is at in producing this travel certificate?


They aren't going to introduce it until the 19th of July.


----------



## Prosper

Got my second jab yesterday. Over the last year and half I hadn't thought about going away but now I'm thinking of taking the car over to Europe and just travelling. So from the 19th July I can do this?


----------



## odyssey06

Prosper said:


> Got my second jab yesterday. Over the last year and half I hadn't thought about going away but now I'm thinking of taking the car over to Europe and just travelling. So from the 19th July I can do this?


Once the bureaucracy on the EU Travel Cert is sorted out here...








						EU digital cert begins today in all member states except Ireland
					

Ireland is due to adopt the plan from 19 July with the delay put down to the HSE hack.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## joer

I got my second jab yesterday too , no reaction , and as much as I would want to travel I think I will staycation this year and leave travel until next year. There is too much uncertainty in Europe still .


----------



## odyssey06

joer said:


> I got my second jab yesterday too , no reaction , and as much as I would want to travel I think I will staycation this year and leave travel until next year. There is too much uncertainty in Europe still .


Plus I'd rather not have to deal with all the hassle of distancing, masks, regulations, red tape etc in a foreign language while on a 'relaxing' holiday.
Staycation seems like less hassle all round, if only the nice weather would continue...


----------



## Leo

Prosper said:


> Got my second jab yesterday. Over the last year and half I hadn't thought about going away but now I'm thinking of taking the car over to Europe and just travelling. So from the 19th July I can do this?


Along with the above you'd need to bear in mind that restrictions are still somewhat fluid throughout Europe, and subject to change at short notice. You'd need to keep an eye on the news in case the imposition of further delta variant restrictions meant you had to make a dash to get home or get stuck for a time.


----------



## joer

That is exactly the danger of travelling abroad at present.


----------



## SoylentGreen

Watching the Tour de France on TG4 at the moment.  I notice that most of the spectators are grouped together outside watching the race and NOT wearing masks.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Prosper said:


> Got my second jab yesterday. Over the last year and half I hadn't thought about going away but now I'm thinking of taking the car over to Europe and just travelling. So from the 19th July I can do this?


Drive on Dude.....we are thinking the same, she hasn't had a break and shes now having to take her annual leave in pay .......last years


----------



## joe sod

I see the government now dithering about actually rolling out the eu digital passport on July 19. They were trying to blame the hse computer system which is false because it's a different computer system and the vaccine rollout was thankfully unaffected by it. They are doing untold damage to Ireland's reputation when we are the last country in Europe to introduce this and now trying to use IT incompetence as the reason even though we are the home of the US IT sector in Europe. They are basically admitting to the rest of Europe that the Irish state sector is plain incompetent and now don't care if it means delaying introducing the passport


----------



## Grizzly

Am I right in saying that citizens of other countries who hold an EU digital passport can fly in to Ireland, have a holiday and then fly home again?  But Irish citizens cannot fly to an EU country for a holiday......... and risk being stopped by the Garda at Dublin airport and fined if they attempt to do this?


----------



## Leo

joe sod said:


> They were trying to blame the hse computer system which is false because it's a different computer system and the vaccine rollout was thankfully unaffected by it.


What system is it using?


----------



## Merowig

Grizzly said:


> Am I right in saying that citizens of other countries who hold an EU digital passport can fly in to Ireland, have a holiday and then fly home again?  But Irish citizens cannot fly to an EU country for a holiday......... and risk being stopped by the Garda at Dublin airport and fined if they attempt to do this?


Unless you have a valid travel reason - and this is wide open for interpretation....

My neighbor went on holidays (to a Non EU country), my hairdresser was beginning of June for two weeks in Romania, two of my colleagues went to Spain, three of my colleagues went to France and (one returned already but he  will go again later in the summer. One colleague went with his GF to Italy last week. Another one is flying next week as well to a Non-EU country.

Travelling is already happening (it never really stopped in my opinion) - I am looking at August dates for myself.


----------



## Grizzly

Enjoy this. The travel chaos from the UK and the beautiful photos from Estepona in Spain. The heat....you can almost feel it.


----------



## Bluefin

As I type this I'm in the airport and it was the easiest journey through the airport I've ever experienced..no queues at check in or going through security. A total breeze


----------



## Susie2017

Anyone travel without being vaccinated ? would be great to hear their experience ? Where did they get their PCR test and any problems going through ferry ports or airports ?


----------



## Merowig

I was travelling last summer for holidays - I did not need a PCR test either way. I never did a PCR test actually.... 
Airport was empty and also plenty of space in the plane.
PCR Tests in Dublin are quickly done with Randox apparently - but not every country requires a PCR Test or a vaccination for entry.


----------



## Grizzly

When entering a plane.....are people loaded as before?  As in Ryanair, priority first...... or are people called as in row number......I would imagine back rows called first until the front rows are the last to fill?

Do you still get the tossers with seats at the back of the plane putting their hand luggage in the lockers at the front of the plane...


----------



## Bluefin

No priority. Boarding passes scanned by person themselves and directed to back or front entrance of plane. passport not checked. Surprised that normal hand luggage was allowed on. 

3 rows at a time were called to depart plane on arrival with all others remaining seated until your row was called


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

Bluefin said:


> No priority. Boarding passes scanned by person themselves and directed to back or front entrance of plane. passport not checked. Surprised that normal hand luggage was allowed on.
> 
> 3 rows at a time were called to depart plane on arrival with all others remaining seated until your row was called


That sounds very organised, are you sure you flew from Ireland?


----------



## Bluefin

BA Flight from Belfast to London Heathrow.. 

Some might say I flew from Ireland but that's a whole new thread!!!


----------



## Bronco Lane

I liked this in the post about Estepona.

"Saturday, up and out very early, walked round the deserted Marina, along the , stopping all the while to take photos.* Interesting to see the new contactless push buttons for the pedestrian crossings"*

Looking forward to when Dun Laoghaire Rathdown start doing this while they continue with all the traffic calming measures in the area.


----------



## Aladdin

Yep, just back from Tenerife, PCRs out and back, only 30 people on the AL flight and a mere 10 on the way back - closest to a private jet you'd get. In Dublin, airport staff were putting more yellow queuing stickers all the way down the arrivals terminal to passport control, evidently for the onslaught from the 19th. 
Safest time to travel before chaos next week!


----------



## hazelgreen

My experience of flying in covid times for urgent family reasons is with Ryanair so  4 flights in total.  Same boarding as  usual, and priority got on first, no boarding row by row.  On my last flight which was 80% full there was only one set of steps to board with so as my seat was at the back, I had to walk past all these people.  Then the flight was delayed an hour because an extra bag was on plane so all had to be taken off and checked and we were left sit... with one door open and vents overhead not working.  NO I was not happy, to me most of fellow passengers were younger people and probably unvaccinated? and with drinks and snacks served, masks were removed .... but thankfully I passed both PCR tests on returning.


----------



## FCBC12

Question on the EU Digital Covid Certificate: Will I need a PCR test to return home to Ireland from my holiday in Spain if I'm unvaccinated and have recovered from Covid-19 within the last 6 months?


----------



## hazelgreen

I think recovery from Covid counts toward the passport but needs to be entered on it?  Also individual countries can apply their own rules with regard to the covid passport so keep up to date as best you can.


----------



## Leper

For anybody travelling to Spain and Until Further Notice you must complete an online Passenger Locator Form 48 hours before arrival in Spain. You may be challenged by your airline for proof and if unable to provide you may not be allowed to board.

You can complete the form on www.spth.es

But, with the issue of the Irish Covid Passport form it might be no longer necessary to complete the Passenger Locator Form from 19th July; I'll keep you updated.


----------



## TrundleAlong

With the heat of the past two days here in Ireland, especially at night, I don't think that I would want to be going somewhere where it is even hotter.  Air conditioning would be a must in any accommodation that I would stay in.


----------



## Leper

We arrived in Almería airport earlier from Dublin. I never thought I'd say this. The staff of Ryanair were excellent from the bag drop through boarding and in-flight and on arrival. I like to give credit where credit is due and on this trip Ryanair get all my praise. No problems, no delays, staff on hand to answer any question and give help. I talked to several people on the flight and they were delighted too. Most of them picked up cheaper and better  holiday options than what were available in Ireland. Many complained about being screwed by some Irish hotels.

The message is clear here in the south of Spain. Come and Enjoy! You'll pay less and they not only want your business but seek it. There's a message there somewhere for the Irish tourism industry.

I don't know how long we'll stay. It all depends on Cork V Kilkenny next Saturday. If Cork win I'll be returning for the All Ireland Final and back to Spain again within days no matter what the result.


----------



## joer

I am glad that its back to normal for you Leper but I will leave travelling for a while yet , despite the high fives for Ryan Air. The numbers in Spain are quite high, I see from yesterday. It should be a great game next Saturday , whatever the result.


----------



## Kimmagegirl

Leper. I would be interested to know how it was like at the airport?  Were people social distancing or wandering in to other people's space. Was there much of a queue at security etc. When queueing, waiting to board the Ryanair plane did you all have to walk down the stairs and wait at the closed door for someone to come and open it for you at the bottom of the stairs. If so was everybody on top of each other?  

How did people behave while taking their seat on the plane and after it landed?

Just one other thing.  Are you the type of person that would be aware of other people and if they were observing the Covid rules?  Because if you have a laid back approach then you might not notice these things.


----------



## Leper

Kimmagegirl said:


> Leper. I would be interested to know how it was like at the airport?  Were people social distancing or wandering in to other people's space. Was there much of a queue at security etc. When queueing, waiting to board the Ryanair plane did you all have to walk down the stairs and wait at the closed door for someone to come and open it for you at the bottom of the stairs. If so was everybody on top of each other?
> 
> How did people behave while taking their seat on the plane and after it landed?
> 
> Just one other thing.  Are you the type of person that would be aware of other people and if they were observing the Covid rules?  Because if you have a laid back approach then you might not notice these things.


1. People in the airport seemed to be aware of their distancing most of the time, but on boarding people just behaved as usual like the back of the plane was going to arrive at a different time to the front of the plane. I can't blame Ryanair for this; it's just in Irish DNA not to queue properly.

2. On the arrival airport people behaved just as bad as they usually do and self distancing was a no-no but on presenting oneself at Spanish Passport Control and collecting bags from the baggage carousel. Some things never change I am embarrassed to say.

3. Worse again, on the coach to Dublin Airport from Cork there were two women and one "gent" who put their own rules into operation i.e. remove the facemask once seated in Cork and refused to behave properly in the three hours it took the coach to arrive in Dublin. I was glad they got out in Dublin City Centre. I did correct them in Cork, but I was wasting my time; I'd have had a better journey if I had said nothing.

4. Once you arrive in Spain you receive a text from the Passenger Locator Team advising of telephone numbers to ring if you experience certain Covid traits.

5. Mrs Lep and I have been self isolating for nearly 18 months and are fully aware of the Covid threat and we live each minute of the day in that frame of mind. Pity that didn't apply to the bus passengers I referred to earlier.

6. In the resort, restaurants and bars appear to have an anti-Covid plan in operation. There are exceptions though and things are not a lot different than in say pubs/restaurants in Cork.

7. I wouldn't get hung on up the Covid situation in Spain as it is a huge country. It has autonomous regions and the bad figures in Almeriía are way lower than say in Madrid or Barcelona. Residents in our resort are not shy in informing people to wear masks and behave safely etc. We Irish could learn much from them in this respect.


----------



## Kimmagegirl

Thanks Lep. I think I would be happy to be in Spain now but not happy with the trip to get there. I am not sure I could tolerate the gang of three that were on your coach from Cork to Dublin nor people standing in my face because they got excited about their suitcase on the carousel.

Saw two people on Friday entering our local supermarket with their masks under their chins. Another idiot walking around with a a face visor on that looked more like a peak cap it was protruding so much. 

If I was the type of person who could ignore these idiots I would probably have an easier journey.


----------



## kinnjohn

The problem is the guidelines are all over the place at present, The present Government are not on top of things the last one Did a good job keeking people in the loop at all times,


----------



## joer

I do not think there should be any guidelines to tell people how to wear their masks properly or how to stay two meters apart . Unfortunately it is only when Covid knocks on their door that the true reality of its consequences are really seen and then it is perhaps too late to start make people be more responsible.


----------



## kinnjohn

I was referring to the number of people allowed and so forth, Leo put more energy into keeping people up to date Michal is not interested,


----------



## Leo

kinnjohn said:


> I was referring to the number of people allowed and so forth, Leo put more energy into keeping people up to date Michal is not interested,


All details are published and updated regularly on the Government website. At this stage leaders need to be more focused on other matters than spoon feeding people who can't follow along.


----------



## Sunny

Leo said:


> All details are published and updated regularly on the Government website. At this stage leaders need to be more focused on other matters than spoon feeding people who can't follow along.



Considering Leo had to go to the AG to get clarification that 200 people were able to attend outdoor events which even the hospitality industry or Failte Ireland didn't know about, I don't think we can give out about people asking questions about what is allowed and what isn't. Unless we are all allowed to ring up the AG and ask him if something is allowed??..


----------



## Kimmagegirl

joer said:


> I do not think there should be any guidelines to tell people how to wear their masks properly or how to stay two meters apart


Well after 18 months of Covid, it is obvious that there are numerous people walking about who haven't a clue and they never will.


----------



## joer

Or just won't bother.


----------



## Leo

Sunny said:


> Considering Leo had to go to the AG to get clarification that 200 people were able to attend outdoor events which even the hospitality industry or Failte Ireland didn't know about, I don't think we can give out about people asking questions about what is allowed and what isn't. Unless we are all allowed to ring up the AG and ask him if something is allowed??..


Usually when politicians seek the AG's advice it is just to get independent verification to shut down the opposition. 

The guidelines themselves are clear enough, I suspect @kinnjohn wasn't looking to organise a similar party....


----------



## Leper

Just an update on the resort:-
1. Supermarkets are well policed regarding wearing of face-masks. Plastic gloves are supplied free. You'd want to be a brave person to not wear a face mask. The security people in all the supermarkets carry batons. Meat and Fish counters have little roped "aisles" which are laid out to ensure self distancing and proper queueing. 
2. Restaurants are much quieter than say two years ago. Staff appear to be good preparing tables and chairs against Covid. Food is excellent as usual. I had a 3 course meal last night including a massive steak for €13.50. All restaurants do take-aways too.
3. Our Pits Stop on our daily walk is working fine with pints of lager @ €1.50 each. 
4. Do I feel safer in resort than I would in Cork? Absolutely no doubt, Yes!
5. We are not sorry we travelled, in fact, we're delighted we did. It just takes a little effort to observe restrictions and most in our part of Spain have bought into that. 
6. I share all of Kimmagegirl's sentiments above. We're quiet people and always try to avoid confrontation. The situation on the bus from Cork was  worse than I described; teenage son of one of the aforementioned ladies kept smoking his vape and blew the residue under the seat in front of him and used the bus charging facility to keep his vape at full strength. One of the ladies played the Clancy Brothers at full pelt from her mobile phone (and this was from 5.30am). Thank You God for giving me patience.


----------



## Bronco Lane

I think for me, it is about getting to Spain.  When there I know that I will be OK.  Rent an apartment, walk the promenade, sit in the corner/outside table of the restaurant, avoid crowds.

I just cannot abide the Irish scangers and yobs and the excited groups of people all talking over each other at the tops of their voices.

I don't understand why the bus driver in Lep's situation didn't do something about these yobs on the bus. Unfortunately they are everywhere.


----------



## Tintagel

My Ryanair replacement Gift Vouchers (not replacement flight vouchers) for cancelled flights need to be used by next month. I was just wondering has anyone had the timeframe for using these extended?

I was hoping to fly to a destination next year that Ryanair has not yet loaded on to it's system for 2022. Current flights end in March.  Anyone know when Ryanair load it's 2022 timetables for the lesser travelled routes?


----------



## Salvadore

For what it’s worth, my recent experience with ryanair and Italy was very positive. It requires a bit of care and attention to properly complete the passenger locator form (which also has to be completed separately abroad for the return journey) and to upload  the covid passport to Ryanair’s site. Both documents were checked at passport control in Italy.

As Leper had said, there was little social distancing at boarding or at the luggage carousels the although almost everyone wore masks. Apart from boarding and the luggage carousel, it was generally a pleasant experience. While not all food outlets are open, there are still a good number of food and retail options.


In Italy itself, there was much more rigorous compliance with safety guidelines than in Dublin but given that most activity is outdoors, this didn’t really matter at all.

Within 72 hours of return to Ireland, a new passenger locator form needs to be completed electronically after which you receive Email confirmation. This confirmation needs to be shown at check-in along with the covid passport.

Those without a covid passport require a negative pcr test taken within 72 hours of return. This can be difficult to organise, particularly given the time needed to get the result. Again, this is checked at the point of check-in. This seems to be strictly enforced. The son of a friend of mine was prevented from boarding because his pcr test was carried out 78 hours before the flight.

All things considered, it’s definitely more difficult administratively to travel, particularly if traveling with children but the experience, once abroad, is generally no more onerous than in Ireland.


----------



## Black Sheep

Travelling to Spain do we need another QR cert despite already having one. Maybe Lep or anyone whose been could help?


----------



## EmmDee

Black Sheep said:


> Travelling to Spain do we need another QR cert despite already having one. Maybe Lep or anyone whose been could help?


The Irish cert is part of the EU scheme. I know the German one scans here (the UK one also scans just FYI)

So you should be fine


----------



## Leper

Black Sheep said:


> Travelling to Spain do we need another QR cert despite already having one. Maybe Lep or anyone whose been could help?


1. Your current Covid passport is OK for multiple trips.
2. You will need to fill out the online Passenger Locator Form for each trip abroad and the respective return. For Spain it is pretty detailed even down to your seat number.
3. If you are using Ryanair you must upload both for each adult on "checking in" or before the flight leaves.


----------



## SlurrySlump

Lep, any updates on how the situation on the ground is in Spain (your area) at the moment?


----------



## Leper

Bland Answer coming up:-

1. More Spaniards are staycationing this year. Fewer Brits around. Restaurants fill up from 9.00pm. You must wear facemasks even on their terraces until you are seated. If you must visit the toilet you must wear a facemask enroute.
2. There is a 1.00am curfew and this is policed with a larger Policíá Local presence.
3. You will not be let into a supermarket or bus without wearing a face-mask. Failure will draw problems from the security or police. 
4. Many wear facemasks outdoors even in the heat. 
5. Failure to observe restrictions will land you in trouble anywhere in the resort. Spaniards tend to contact police faster than us Irish. And the police react.


----------



## Purple

Leper said:


> 6. I share all of Kimmagegirl's sentiments above. We're quiet people and always try to avoid confrontation. The situation on the bus from Cork was worse than I described; teenage son of one of the aforementioned ladies kept smoking his vape and blew the residue under the seat in front of him and used the bus charging facility to keep his vape at full strength. One of the ladies played the Clancy Brothers at full pelt from her mobile phone (and this was from 5.30am). Thank You God for giving me patience.


I was on a bus transfer in Lanzarote (arriving there) once when my first son was around 6. A group of young women in front of us (the generic word to describe them would be skangers) were having a very sexually explicit conversation. When I asked them to tone down their language they became very aggressive and more descriptive about their anticipated exploits. When the bus stopped at the next resort the police took them off the bus. It was the best part of the holiday. Thankfully it wasn't where I was staying. It's been taxis or hire cars since.


----------



## Shelby219

We are travelling to Portugal at the end of September, and will also be leaving from Portugal, but we have also booked 3 nights across the border in Spain, having looked at websites for travel to Spain regarding filling in a location form, there seems to be none if you are crossing the border by car, is this correct, or will we be stopped at the border by police?


----------



## Bluefin

Passed through Dublin Airport.. Took only 20 mins from parking car in short term carpark to my departure gate..a total breeze. Ryanair where advising 2.5 hrs. Getting onto plane was perfect but departing plane everyone jumped off there seats to leave..no orderly queue. 
Plane quite full...


----------



## Leper

Shelby219 said:


> We are travelling to Portugal at the end of September, and will also be leaving from Portugal, but we have also booked 3 nights across the border in Spain, having looked at websites for travel to Spain regarding filling in a location form, there seems to be none if you are crossing the border by car, is this correct, or will we be stopped at the border by police?


Apologies for my delay in answering this. When you fill in your travel details on the Passenger Location Form your Final Destination is asked for. Therefore, you'll be transiting through Portugal for Spain and back again to Portugal. 

This is where it gets confusing - You are travelling back to Portugal from Spain before your return to Ireland?  I have to be honest and say I can't remember what part of the form (if any) you should fill in. 

But, the Passenger Locator Forum for Spain is pretty detailed with several pages of information (much more detailed than the same form for entry to  Ireland). It can only be completed 48 hours before departure time so don't leave it until the last minute.


----------



## Shelby219

Leper said:


> Apologies for my delay in answering this. When you fill in your travel details on the Passenger Location Form your Final Destination is asked for. Therefore, you'll be transiting through Portugal for Spain and back again to Portugal.
> 
> This is where it gets confusing - You are travelling back to Portugal from Spain before your return to Ireland?  I have to be honest and say I can't remember what part of the form (if any) you should fill in.
> 
> But, the Passenger Locator Forum for Spain is pretty detailed with several pages of information (much more detailed than the same form for entry to  Ireland). It can only be completed 48 hours before departure time so don't leave it until the last minute.


Thanks for the reply, do you know if vehicle traffic is being stopped at the border into Spain from Portugal, or will the hotel in Spain look for information when we check in, just to clarify we are travelling by return Dublin to Faro for a few weeks, but have booked a 3 night hotel stay in Spain during this time ( from 2020)


----------



## Leper

Shelby219 said:


> Thanks for the reply, do you know if vehicle traffic is being stopped at the border into Spain from Portugal, or will the hotel in Spain look for information when we check in, just to clarify we are travelling by return Dublin to Faro for a few weeks, but have booked a 3 night hotel stay in Spain during this time ( from 2020)


I don't know if cars are being stopped on the Portuguese/Spain border, but I suspect they are. Also, I would say the hotel won't be interested in anything other than taking your credit card details.


----------



## Tintagel

MSN
		


What is this all about?


----------



## Leper

Tintagel said:


> MSN
> 
> 
> 
> What is this all about?


I read the article too and this should not happen under any circumstances. 

I believe Dublin Airport is too small for the air traffic it handles while Cork, Shannon, Kerry, Knock are empty and devoid of flights for most of every day. It's time the DAA released some flights to other airports. Or better again, if Cork Airport can shed its Dublin owners (DAA) perhaps Ireland would be served better?


----------



## valery

Flew out from terminal 2 a couple of weeks ago,  we had fast pass.  The fastpass checkin was closed and we were told by DAA employee that they were operating with a skeleton staff and couldn’t man it.  It was a Sunday.


----------



## joer

I hear that it has been like this for most of this week. I know of someone who was in the Airport at 3.45 am during this week and it was chaos. 
What is this doing for the prevention of spreading Covid. I am sure that most of these same people who are in the queues want all restrictions lifted . I will not be anywhere near Dublin Airport this year at the very least.


----------



## seamus m

Travelled a lot lately havnt even thought about covid, most people keeping to themselves .I do think ryanair policy of splitting families or people travelling  together in this covid era a joke


----------



## seamus m

Also been to Denmark (similar pop) covid numbers not changing between 700 to 1000 last couple of months .No masks ,No massive pushing for vaccine although easily got .Fully opened .Difference is u need a valid antigen test which is readily available and free to go in anywhere .Weekly I think, this is they way forward.


----------



## RedOnion

seamus m said:


> No massive pushing for vaccine


They don't need to push it. 80% of the population over the age of 12 has been fully vaccinated. That's why they're ending restrictions on 10th September.


----------



## Cavanbhoy

Leper said:


> I read the article too and this should not happen under any circumstances.
> 
> I believe Dublin Airport is too small for the air traffic it handles while Cork, Shannon, Kerry, Knock are empty and devoid of flights for most of every day. It's time the DAA released some flights to other airports. Or better again, if Cork Airport can shed its Dublin owners (DAA) perhaps Ireland would be served better?


There seems to be a bit of a standoff between staff/unions and management over roosters. Appears to be mainly in terminal one


----------



## Leper

Cavanbhoy said:


> There seems to be a bit of a standoff between staff/unions and management over roosters. Appears to be mainly in terminal one


1. I don't think unions were involved in this one (I am open to correction).
2. Furthermore, I don't think "roosters" were involved. (You might want to correct spelling?).
3. From what I hear management got  weekend rosters wrong.
4. Will this happen again? Almost certainly! Dublin Airport is too big and many of its flights need to be devolved to other airports.


----------



## Loki1974

almostthere said:


> Queuing to get on plane. Queuing to get off plane.  No social distancing. Transfer to terminal on packed bus. Queuing at passport control.
> 
> A family member flew through Malaga recently. All inbound planes being directed to one area. Two large Jumbo type planes from Middle East off loaded at same time his flight was being off loaded. Airside packed. Non airside practically empty.
> 
> These are the things that put me off.


I flew out to Malaga last week and was horrified with the situation . Loads of young lads were not wearing masks on the flight including two sitting beside me . I had to ask to be moved before takeoff . I was allowed to move after takeoff and got a new seat . However once the food was served , masks stayed off for a lot of people until we nearly landed . It is nonsense that airlines , certainly this one in particular are looking out for you. The airhostess will not confront people not wearing masks . That is absolutely my experience anyway


----------



## SlugBreath

joer said:


> What is this doing for the prevention of spreading Covid.


We would love to get away. It is the travel bit that is worrying us, not the destination. We can keep to ourselves, choose to eat outdoors, avoid crowds when we arrive. However we cannot avoid Dublin Airport and it's queues, the yobs on the flight etc.

This type of thing should not be happening at Dublin Airport. They know how many flights they have and how many people will be flying and when. People panicking because of security delays and they let their guard down as they rush to catch their flight.

The apology from Dublin Airport is meaningless.


----------



## kinnjohn

I traveled  around Bavaria in Germany  last week I am Travelling around Tyrol in Austria this week, very few wearing masks except on public transport, all very relaxed about Covit, they don't seem to mind if the children get covid, you would think they want them to get covid by there actions, Swimming pools operating at full capacity, full of children  and adults, little or no social distancing worth talking about,


----------



## joe sod

Cavanbhoy said:


> There seems to be a bit of a standoff between staff/unions and management over roosters. Appears to be mainly in terminal one


Would it not be more to do with the fact that the airport was basically closed for 18 months, now they don't have the staff when some sort of normality resumes. This is the price we are paying for our ultra cautious approach. You can't just switch back on an airport like Dublin back to full capacity. The government were warned about this


----------



## joer

The Airport should have been ready for this too, don't you think. I don't think it is a government problem .


----------



## Leo

joe sod said:


> The government were warned about this


The government have no role in rostering staff in Dublin airport.


----------



## almostthere

I hope to resume flying to European destinations in Spring 2022.  However I will be flying in to the smaller airports rather than the busy ones.  
I am trying to remember the various airports that I have flown in to in the past (mainly Ryanair) but cannot remember any detail.

So, hopefully someone can help me here.   I am looking at the smaller airports.  Those with one terminal. Maybe one runway.  The type where you can walk to the terminal from the plane and are not squashed like sardines in to a small bus that drives 500 yds. Absolutely hated these before Covid but even worse during Covid).

I would be looking at Ryanair destinations and some Aer Lingus destinations in France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain....Portugal.....others?

I am looking for one, where I basically get off the plane, through passport control to a bus stop outside the door of the terminal to a waiting bus to take me to my destination.


----------



## Conan

Flew our of Dublin last Friday morning.  Got through security in about 10 minutes.  No problem. Arrived in Malaga to find a long queue for passport control, but through in about 15 minutes.  Another queue for Covid check, but again got through in about 15 minutes. All very efficient.


----------



## Black Sheep

Anybody filled up the Irish Locator form for the return to Ireland or is it unnecessarily complicated.
I found the Spanish one a bit of a pain


----------



## EmmDee

almostthere said:


> I hope to resume flying to European destinations in Spring 2022.  However I will be flying in to the smaller airports rather than the busy ones.
> I am trying to remember the various airports that I have flown in to in the past (mainly Ryanair) but cannot remember any detail.
> 
> So, hopefully someone can help me here.   I am looking at the smaller airports.  Those with one terminal. Maybe one runway.  The type where you can walk to the terminal from the plane and are not squashed like sardines in to a small bus that drives 500 yds. Absolutely hated these before Covid but even worse during Covid).
> 
> I would be looking at Ryanair destinations and some Aer Lingus destinations in France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain....Portugal.....others?
> 
> I am looking for one, where I basically get off the plane, through passport control to a bus stop outside the door of the terminal to a waiting bus to take me to my destination.


Any of the French regional airports are pretty much like that... Biarritz, La Rochelle, Montpellier, Carcassonne

Departing is a bit more awkward as they all have a holding room once you're through passport check. But you walk to the planes.


----------



## Leper

Black Sheep said:


> Anybody filled up the Irish Locator form for the return to Ireland or is it unnecessarily complicated.
> I found the Spanish one a bit of a pain


1. The Irish Travel Locator Form is a doddle and can be completed in about two minutes (max). [To be completed within 72 hours of arrival time]
2. The Spanish Travel Locator Form is pretty long with lots of unneccessary information sought. Estimated Completion Time 20 minutes. [To be completed within 48 hours of time of departure].


----------



## geri

I filled in the Irish pasanger locator form (very simple 5 min job) for my parents return journey from majorca two weeks in advance, and printed it out for them before they went on holidays. It was accepted without question on their return to knock at the weekend  even though it wasn't done within the 72 hrs. We thought we'd chance it as we didn't want them fretting about having to do it on holidays and maybe having problems with Internet  printers etc.


----------



## joer

Just wondering how the Airport was this week as regard queues considering it was so bad last week. Also wondering if the people who missed flights because of the problems last week were accommodated by the airlines .


----------



## tomdublin

I just got back from travelling across several countries in Europe. Between Schengen countries there are no checks at all and for non-Schengen ones the vaccination cert worked smoothly. Every country I went to was more or less back to normal. People still wear masks in shops and public transport (except in Hungary, which felt strange) but there is a calm and relaxed feel to everything. There were enough tourists to make things lively but not yet overcrowding. Not all cross-border trains and buses are running a full schedule yet but there is enough capacity to make travel between countries easy with a bit of planning ahead. Prices in hotels and restaurants seemed at a normal level, in stark contrast to the orgy of profiteering and exploitation facing Irish staycationers this summer. Returning to Ireland wasn't a problem either. The vaccination cert and locator form are checked at the departure gate when boarding the flight to Ireland and these weren't checked again at passport control. Copious warnings about the alleged risks/difficulties of travelling to other EU countries seem to be little more than self-serving propaganda by Ireland's domestic hospitality industry.


----------



## SlurrySlump

tomdublin said:


> The vaccination cert and locator form are checked at the departure gate when boarding the flight to Ireland.


I have my vaccination cert printed off in paper format.  Is it possible to have your outward locator form printed off before you travel and is it acceptable at borders.


----------



## tomdublin

SlurrySlump said:


> I have my vaccination cert printed off in paper format.  Is it possible to have your outward locator form printed off before you travel and is it acceptable at borders.


Do you mean the Irish passenger locator form?  You are supposed to complete it electronically no more than 72 hours before arrival in Ireland.  Paper and electronic copies are both OK (probably safest to have both).


----------



## SlurrySlump

almostthere said:


> I hope to resume flying to European destinations in Spring 2022. However I will be flying in to the smaller airports rather than the busy ones.
> I am trying to remember the various airports that I have flown in to in the past (mainly Ryanair) but cannot remember any detail.
> 
> So, hopefully someone can help me here. I am looking at the smaller airports. Those with one terminal. Maybe one runway. The type where you can walk to the terminal from the plane and are not squashed like sardines in to a small bus that drives 500 yds. Absolutely hated these before Covid but even worse during Covid).


I contacted a Spanish airport owner about the practice of squeezing as many people on to the small bus that takes you from the plane to the terminal.  This was the response I got  (see below)....  It would appear that it is the airline's responsibility not the airport's responsibility........so next time you are squashed in like sardines in the small bus, complain to the airline.

_*"First of all, allow me to inform you that I am sorry for the inconvenience you may have suffered while passing through our premises, in addition, I would like to thank you for your complaint which helps us to try to increase the quality of our customer service.*_



_*In this regard, I indicate that the airline is responsible for the transfer of passengers from the terminal to the aircraft.*_



*Therefore, I must forward the claim to your airline company for processing, so that you can exercise your rights and any type of action that you deem appropriate for the effective protection of them, since this has an impact on the performance of the air transport contract concluded between a passenger and the air carrier when purchasing the air ticket."*


----------



## Purple

I'm heading to Marbella tomorrow. Hopefully there are no delays.


----------



## Black Sheep

Was there (Dublin Airport) on the way to Spain. No queues in the afternoon, though a staff member told me they had been quite busy in the mornings.
Maybe bring some food as the only food at the airport was sandwiches (cardboard) @€9 each, and no food on the plane, drinks only


----------



## SoylentGreen

I contacted Ryanair and I asked them to extend the expiry date on the replacement Gift Cards that they refunded to me for cancelled flights. They point blank refused.  I had to use them this week.
I have now booked flights for a trip that I only sort of want to make....I just wanted to use them up......The cost of the flights to my preferred destination have trebled in cost for the same time next year as when I originally booked them.


----------



## Purple

Just back from Spain. No hassles but delays in Malaga airport due to it just not being as well run as Dublin Airport.
If you think the food in Dublin airport is expensive...
Nobody wearing masks there in bars or restaurants. The staff do, sometimes, but no customers. 
The flight was like a grand tour for the audience of Live at 3. The plane smelled like a nursing home. I'd say the sales of rich tea biscuits and adult nappies in Ireland has plummeted since the restrictions were lifted.


----------



## Purple

SoylentGreen said:


> I have now booked flights for a trip that I only sort of want to make....I just wanted to use them up......The cost of the flights to my preferred destination have trebled in cost for the same time next year as when I originally booked them.


Well they have to pay for those vouchers somehow.


----------



## klaus-v

We went two Italy in August and back last Sunday, it was all pain free, just a bit of added bureaucracy with the EU Covid pass and locator form but nothing else. It takes 3 minutes to complete the Locator form. At the Milan airport it was taken at the passports check. Coming back it was taken at the boarding gate by the Aer Lingus staff. The flight was about 50% full gonig and coming back the same. We felt safe everywhere, almost everyone wearing the mask inside shops etc. hand sanitizer almost everywhere, however because of the extremely good weather we never had a single meal or pizzas inside but all outside at a good distance from the other tables so we all felt very safe. To be honest I felt more nervous in Donegal in early August where there was a much higher incidence than Italy and the weather wasn't so good so most times we were sitting inside for meals, drinks, etc.


----------



## Leper

Looking at Flightradar website yesterday I note Aer Lingus is using one of its largest transatlantic planes for the Dublin/Málaga run (and in midweek and September - used pre Covid on weekends and in high season only). Seemingly many are heading abroad again.


----------



## tomdublin

Just saw a large room in a mediocre North inner city Dublin hotel advertised on Airbnb for 700 Euro per night.  Ireland's hospitality industry might be signing its own death warrant.


----------



## Purple

Leper said:


> Looking at Flightradar website yesterday I note Aer Lingus is using one of its largest transatlantic planes for the Dublin/Málaga run (and in midweek and September - used pre Covid on weekends and in high season only). Seemingly many are heading abroad again.


That's the one I was on. It was full.


----------



## Shelby219

Leper said:


> 1. The Irish Travel Locator Form is a doddle and can be completed in about two minutes (max). [To be completed within 72 hours of arrival time]
> 2. The Spanish Travel Locator Form is pretty long with lots of unneccessary information sought. Estimated Completion Time 20 minutes. [To be completed within 48 hours of time of departure].


Arrived in Faro airport, quiet enough, no bus to terminal, connection strait to terminal building,(aer  Lingus) not asked for Portugal locator form, carried on to Spain by car to hotel and not asked for Spanish locator form ,only passports as usual, all very safe in hotel and very clean, a good idea we noticed was no menus in resteraunts, you scan a QR code with your phone to view menu


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

tomdublin said:


> Just saw a large room in a mediocre North inner city Dublin hotel advertised on Airbnb for 700 Euro per night.  Ireland's hospitality industry might be signing its own death warrant.


Wouldn't have thought Airbnb would be the litmus test of Irelands tourism industry.


----------



## seamus m

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Wouldn't have thought Airbnb would be the litmus test of Irelands tourism industry.


The country has priced itself out of holding onto its covid boosted tourism industry(who havnt been as busy in 30 years) from once cheap hotels to guesthouses, overpriced  restaurants particularly takeaways  to  overpriced canoe trips   and the horse box 4euro coffee. Blame what you like, extra expense ,insurance , rent and or horse box conversion rates .The poorer in society are also being left behind and Canaries here we come.


----------



## seamus m

By the way I have travelled Scandinavian countries . In Denmark particularly you wouldn't think covid exists,  fully open now,no restrictions  with  numbers very low.The more it has opened over last few months the numbers are stable and the only difference I see is testing antigen and pcr is free and freely available. #The way forward


----------



## Leper

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Wouldn't have thought Airbnb would be the litmus test of Irelands tourism industry.


You don't need litmus paper to indicate that your are obviously being financially screwed.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

seamus m said:


> The country has priced itself out of holding onto its covid boosted tourism industry(who havnt been as busy in 30 years) from once cheap hotels to guesthouses, overpriced  restaurants particularly takeaways  to  overpriced canoe trips   and the horse box 4euro coffee. Blame what you like, extra expense ,insurance , rent and or horse box conversion rates .The poorer in society are also being left behind and Canaries here we come.


And yet as you say it's very busy,  there is an element of over pricing but that too is unfortunately an international problem at the moment. The poorer being left behind,  well if one was poor would holidays be a priority?


----------



## RedOnion

seamus m said:


> By the way I have travelled Scandinavian countries . In Denmark particularly you wouldn't think covid exists,  fully open now,no restrictions  with  numbers very low.The more it has opened over last few months the numbers are stable and the only difference I see is testing antigen and pcr is free and freely available. #The way forward


They've also got one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, a fact you continue to ignore.


----------



## tomdublin

Paul O Mahoney said:


> Wouldn't have thought Airbnb would be the litmus test of Irelands tourism industry.


I don't understand your point.  The prices on Airbnb aren't set by Airbnb.  They are determined by the provider which in this case is an Irish hotel.


----------



## Purple

seamus m said:


> The country has priced itself out of holding onto its covid boosted tourism industry(who havnt been as busy in 30 years) from once cheap hotels to guesthouses, overpriced  restaurants particularly takeaways  to  overpriced canoe trips   and the horse box 4euro coffee. Blame what you like, extra expense ,insurance , rent and or horse box conversion rates .


We have high wages and high taxes. Tourism is a labour intensive and relatively low skilled sector so minimum wage rates have a big impact on costs. We have positioned ourselves to attract higher income tourists rather than flooding the place using package holiday type offerings. I think that's a good thing.


seamus m said:


> The poorer in society are also being left behind and Canaries here we come.


We have amongst the highest levels of social transfers (taking money from rich people and giving it to poor people) in the world.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

tomdublin said:


> I don't understand your point.  The prices on Airbnb aren't set by Airbnb.  They are determined by the provider which in this case is an Irish hotel.


You never mentioned it was a hotel you said a room . And Airbnb do not set the prices the provider does Airbnb takes the commission,  just like every other hotel amalgamation site globally.


----------



## tomdublin

Paul O Mahoney said:


> You never mentioned it was a hotel you said a room


No, I said it was a room in a Dublin hotel sold via Airbnb.


----------



## Paul O Mahoney

tomdublin said:


> No, I said it was a room in a Dublin hotel sold via Airbnb.


My apologies so you did but I saw the post earlier......anyway thsts the market supply and demand and its everywhere our daughter has moved to Spain and my wife and her 2 sisters are visiting in 2 weeks  hotels expensive,  apartment via Airbnb €2000 for 4 nights. Cest la vie


----------



## Leo

Purple said:


> We have high wages and high taxes. Tourism is a labour intensive and relatively low skilled sector so minimum wage rates have a big impact on costs. We have positioned ourselves to attract higher income tourists rather than flooding the place using package holiday type offerings. I think that's a good thing.
> 
> We have amongst the highest levels of social transfers (taking money from rich people and giving it to poor people) in the world.


Again Purple with those pesky facts ruining a perfectly good unfounded rant!    

Obviously we should all be able to have a night out for the price of one in Spain. Now, just because that would mean those in the leisure, food, and entertainment industries here working for less than minimum wage and the government significantly reducing taxation on those industries isn't important, None of the rest of us are prepared to work for that kind of money while at the same time we want more and better services but we don't want to have to pay any more tax to fund it.


----------



## Purple

Leo said:


> None of the rest of us are prepared to work for that kind of money while at the same time we want more and better services but we don't want to have to pay any more tax to fund it.


In order for those in the middle income bracket to feel well off the bottom 10% need to be dirt poor. I'd rather not feel well off.


----------



## seamus m

RedOnion said:


> They've also got one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, a fact you continue to ignore.


Like the first time you highlighted vaccination rates you will find they are the much the same as Irelands similar to the first time you highlighted this


----------



## seamus m

Purple said:


> We have high wages and high taxes. Tourism is a labour intensive and relatively low skilled sector so minimum wage rates have a big impact on costs. We have positioned ourselves to attract higher income tourists rather than flooding the place using package holiday type offerings. I think that's a good thing.
> 
> We have amongst the highest levels of social transfers (taking money from rich people and giving it to poor people) in the world.


Ah reduce the minimum wage


----------



## Purple

seamus m said:


> Ah reduce the minimum wage


And increase the social transfer?


----------



## seamus m

Paul O Mahoney said:


> And yet as you say it's very busy,  there is an element of over pricing but that too is unfortunately an international problem at the moment. The poorer being left behind,  well if one was poor would holidays be a priority?





Purple said:


> And increase the social transfer?


We havnt positioned  ourselves anywhere for well off tourists ,we have an  overinflated greedy economy where half the clowns going around with the 4 euro coffee can't afford it.we have fell into a tourist boom where we provide very little for a high cost and it will come back to bite


----------



## Purple

seamus m said:


> We havnt positioned  ourselves anywhere for well off tourists ,we have an  overinflated greedy economy where half the clowns going around with the 4 euro coffee can't afford it.we have fell into a tourist boom where we provide very little for a high cost and it will come back to bite


You're just wrong. We mightn't be the best at it but the data shows that's exactly what we've done.


----------



## Bluefin

Getting back to the title of the thread, passed through Dublin Airport with no fuss. Only observation is that many food places still closed and volume of travelling (age 50+) is low. ALingus very strict in relation to boarding and disembarking.. Told passengers to sit down when trying to skip queue at disembarking.


----------



## EmmDee

We went to Biarritz last week - bit of a last minute break. If it helps anyone, our experience was good.

Airports - Dublin was pretty good. We had fast track but to be honest, there weren't any queues. Shops and general areas were not packed and didn't feel crowded. Boarding with Ryanair was ok - but we had assigned seats so just didn't join any queues until virtually everyone had gone through so didn't have problems. Biarritz airport is small and very quick to get through. There was a vaccine cert check before getting to immigration. Not sure what happens if you didn't have the cert - though I don't imagine you could have flown. But useful to have a screenshot of your cert just in case you didn't have roaming data (see also below). Flights both ways were about 2/3 full but everyone had masks on the whole time and didn't see any messing around. Someone asked before - in Biarritz there is no bus shuttle to/from the plane. You walk to the plane. The only slightly close gathering was the holding pen in Biarritz on departure. You have to go through immigration before boarding. Again we held off going through until boarding had started so only in the room for a few mins - and everyone was pretty good on mask wearing

In Biarritz at least - if you don't have a vaccine cert (or equivalent) you are not going to have much fun. You can go into shops (masked) without certs but you need to show your cert to go to any restaurant or cafe. Not just inside - anywhere. So for example, we stopped at a sea side coffee van - so no indoors, all seating was benches outside. Still had to show cert when we ordered. And it was consistent - every single eating / drinking establishment scanned certs inside or out. 

In general, mask wearing was pretty consistent - all shops and indoor spaces (like the market). Didn't see any messing. And generally masks were worn properly. People do seem to be in the habit of it. The only exception I noticed was our taxi driver going to the airport on the way home

Overall - have to say it was pretty good. It was our first time to travel since February last year and we'd be generally cautious over the last 18 months. But I have to say that going to a small airport with a 10 min trip from airport to town made it a pretty comfortable experience.


----------



## SoylentGreen

EmmDee said:


> Boarding with Ryanair was ok - but we had assigned seats so just didn't join any queues until virtually everyone had gone through so didn't have problems.


This is my fear...the OK bit.......   When you got to your assigned seat on the plane, was the space above your head for your carry on suitcase available to you only.......you pay enough for it now?


----------



## EmmDee

SoylentGreen said:


> This is my fear...the OK bit.......   When you got to your assigned seat on the plane, was the space above your head for your carry on suitcase available to you only.......you pay enough for it now?



We had paid for checked in bags and not overhead - so we only had a small carry-on for under the seat. So we didn't have any worries about overhead space. In fact we had a spare seat in our row in the end so plenty of space


----------



## Tintagel

EmmDee said:


> We had paid for checked in bags and not overhead


I haven't done the math but we have always had a "carry on" each time we travel. These have now gone very expensive. I am just wondering if it would work out better value and less hassle to take one large suitcase for the two of us, to put in the hold and forget about the "carry on" suitcases?  Just bring two small bags for under the seat.


----------



## joer

Tintagel said:


> I haven't done the math but we have always had a "carry on" each time we travel. These have now gone very expensive. I am just wondering if it would work out better value and less hassle to take one large suitcase for the two of us, to put in the hold and forget about the "carry on" suitcases?  Just bring two small bags for under the seat.


We have always done the same. It's nice to have the  carry on bags overhead as it saves waiting around in the Airport at the carousel. It is more expensive alright but it suits us better.


----------



## EmmDee

Overhead bag costs €25. Checked in bag is €35. Both allow reserved seating though latter I think has bigger choice. But with overhead we would have had to join the boarding queue to make sure we got space at our seat. With checked in bags, we just hung back until virtually last people went through

FWIW - we had no waiting around at the carousel in Biarritz - different for other airports obviously.


----------



## joer

It probably is a personal choice . I do not mind at all standing early to get to my seat and have the bag overhead.


----------



## Tintagel

EmmDee said:


> With checked in bags, we just hung back until virtually last people went through


I always find standing in the priority queue, wondering if I will have a space over my seat, to store my carry on suitcase, stressful.  I think that we will try putting our suitcase in the hold going forward, even though it must be 20 years since we have done this.  I like the idea of just walking on board, taking our allocated seats, waiting until every one has left the plane and then take my time going to the carousel.  Especially, if I am not rushing to catch a connecting bus to my resort....


----------



## Marion

I’ve booked for travel to USA in December.

I’m slightly nervous about the travel experience/ it’s been so long. 

I will be careful.

Marion


----------



## IsleOfMan

I see that both Croatia and Austria will only allow travellers visit if they are within a 270 day timeframe of having their vaccine.  So our vaccination certs will expire in time. Only to be expected I suppose.


----------



## Purple

Marion said:


> I’ve booked for travel to USA in December.
> 
> I’m slightly nervous about the travel experience/ it’s been so long.
> 
> I will be careful.
> 
> Marion


The hassle of going through security and immigration puts me off travelling to the USA unless I have to. It's going to be worse now... enjoy!


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## WaterWater

I see that Ryanair are still plugging their flights for November and December but I haven't noticed much movement in their flight prices beyond these dates.
We have already booked flights to The Netherlands for next May (had to as vouchers were expiring) but with Covid cases increasing there, we are reluctant to book our accommodation yet. I can't imagine Ryanair cancelling any of their flights, so if we don't go we lose out with nil refunds.

I also want to book flights to France for June but I am reluctant to do so at this point in time.


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## TrundleAlong

New French system for* non* Eu travellers.


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## Sunnygirl69

Marion said:


> I’ve booked for travel to USA in December.
> 
> I’m slightly nervous about the travel experience/ it’s been so long.
> 
> I will be careful.
> 
> Marion


Marion I would be interested to hear how your trip went.... I've trip planned for soon...


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## Marion

Hi Sunnygirl69

I’m afraid I never made it. Covid had other plans for me mid December. But while I’m here. I must say AER LINGUS was great! They  made a goodwill gesture and refunded my entire cost - fees included. Great, indeed brilliant,  customer service.

Enjoy your trip.

Marion


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