# Avant Money launches a new mortgage today from < 2%



## Deeks1

Just on Breakfast Business on Newstalk this morning. Fixed Rates from 1.95% and Variable from 2.5%. No further detail than that but will be announced today apparently.


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## Brendan Burgess

The CEO will be interviewed on Radio 1 Business - don't know what time, but it's usually about 7.50 am.

Charlie Weston has covered it in today's Indo 









						Home-loan price war: lowest rates in 10 years as new lender shakes up market
					

A new mortgage lender backed by a Spanish banking giant is set to shake up the market here with the lowest lending rates.




					www.independent.ie


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## Brendan Burgess

Here are their fixed rates






Update: Some or most of the brokers are charging an application fee of €500. It's not clear if this is refundable if your mortgage is not approved. 

It doesn't say it on its website, but you will also be able to have part of your mortgage variable
< 70% LTV  : 2.5%
>70% LTV: 2.75%

Switchers, movers and first-time buyers will be able to avail of these new products exclusively through a number of Ireland’s leading mortgage brokers from today.



Mortgages will be available to all customers, subject to the normal Central Bank of Ireland lending rules on loan-to-value and loan-to-income.  Appointed mortgage brokers will be ready to guide customers on the range of Avant Money products and the various lending rules that apply.


Mortgages are available on homes that are the primary dwelling (i.e. not for investment buy-to-let properties)


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## Brendan Burgess

Avant is very good value at <60% LTV.   Anyone who qualifies for this should  consider switching to Avant.





Anyone with an LTV over 60% can get a lower effective rate through one of the cash back lenders


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## Brendan Burgess

I understand that Avant will be quite selective in their underwriting.

And as they say in their press release:


Stable employment with no obvious risk to future employment prospects

*They also have geographic limitations*

Currently, they are Dublin county plus any town within 30km of Dublin county border, Cork city plus locations within 30km of Cork city centre, Galway city plus locations within 30km of Galway city centre, Limerick city plus locations within 20km of Limerick city centre and Waterford city plus locations within 20km of Waterford city centre.
source


Brendan


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## SPC100

Nice! Welcome Avant! Can you overpay any of the fixed without penalty?


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## Brendan Burgess

*Appointed Brokers**Location**Website*Affinity AdvisorsDublin 2affinityadv.ie/All FinancialsDublin 5allfinancials.ie/DoddlDublin 2doddl.ieDowling FinancialDublin 3dowlingfinancial.ie/DSOB Financial ServicesDublin 7NoneFinance OneDublin 2financeone.ie/Financial SolutionsCo. Dublinfinancesolutions.ie/First Rate Financial PlanningDublin 15www.firstrate.ieFrank Lenny FinancialDublin 2franklenny.com/Howth Financial ServicesCo Dublinwww.howthfinancial.ieIrish Mortgage BrokersDublin 1mortgagebrokers.ie/Irish Mortgage CorporationDublin 2irishmortgage.com/MMPIDublin 4mmpi.ie/MortgagelineDublin 9MymortgagesCorkmymortgages.ie/Park FinancialDublin 12parkfinancial.ie/Prendergast MaguireCo. Wicklow[broken link removed]Sherry Fitzgerald Financial ServicesDublin 1sherryfitz.ie/financial-servicesVision Financial Solutions LimitedDublin 6visionfinancial.ie/


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## misemoi

SPC100 said:


> Nice! Welcome Avant! Can you overpay any of the fixed without penalty?



Also have they published their fixed rate break calculation?


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## Brendan Burgess

Good interview by Brian Finn with the CEO of Avant Money

1) No requirement to buy mortgage protection or insurance from Avant to get these rates.  The CEO said "I don't know where that idea has come from?" 
2) They have invested a lot in this project and so they want to make a big splash - they will not be cherry picking.   They will not be limiting it to public servants and some professionals. 

He also said something like "Ireland has the highest rates in the eurozone after Greece and Latvia. There is no reason for that." 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

SPC100 said:


> Can you overpay any of the fixed without penalty?



It would be unlikely. 

Brendan


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## shweeney

any incentives to switch (other than the rate obviously)?


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## Donnie

Any other t&c. I see that one needs to Also have a deposit of 40% to avail of rate as a FTB or switcher.


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## Protocol

Brendan Burgess said:


> 1) No requirement to buy mortgage protection or insurance from Avant to get these rates.  The CEO said "I don't know where that idea has come from?"



I had posted that here, based on their business model in Spain.

I wonder do RTE read AAM?


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## Protocol

Just two brokers outside Dublin?


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## Brendan Burgess

Protocol said:


> I wonder do RTE read AAM?



I am sure that they do.

But they also read emails from me suggesting what questions to ask their upcoming interviewees  

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

Protocol said:


> Just two brokers outside Dublin?



They are restricting lending to Dublin, Cork and Galway.


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## bbari1

Donnie said:


> Any other t&c. I see that one needs to Also have a deposit of 40% to avail of rate as a FTB or switcher.



So it doesn't apply to a non FTB applicant buying a new home?


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## Sarenco

7-Year Fixed Rate @1.95%, with no arrangement fees.

That's a bit of game changer for low-LTV mortgages.

It's great to see some real competition at this end of the mortgage market.


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## peemac

I think they missed an opportunity to bring 10 year and 15 year fixed rates at 2.5% or lower. THAT would have been a game changer. 0.2% difference in what is on the market already is not much of a game changer but at least it gives a competitive offering that will keep rates down generally


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## Brendan Burgess

Donnie said:


> Also have a deposit of 40% to avail of rate as a FTB or switcher.



Where are you seeing that? 

As far as I can see the criteria are the same for FTBs, Second Time Buyers and switchers? 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

peemac said:


> 0.2% difference in what is on the market already



Hi peemac

What is the next cheapest 7 year fixed rate after Avant? 

KBC  2.45% for 5 years
KBC 2.85% for 10 years 
Ulster Bank 2.99% for 7 years 

So 1.95% for 7 years is a big cut. 

Even 2.4% for 7 years <80% is probably a good bit cheaper than the rest of the market.

So Avant is game changing 
1) For LTVs below 60% 
2) For 7 year fixed rate mortgages. 

Brendan


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## peemac

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi peemac
> 
> What is the next cheapest 7 year fixed rate after Avant?
> 
> KBC  2.45% for 5 years
> KBC 2.85% for 10 years
> Ulster Bank 2.99% for 7 years
> 
> So 1.95% for 7 years is a big cut.
> 
> Even 2.4% for 7 years <80% is probably a good bit cheaper than the rest of the market.
> 
> So Avant is game changing
> 1) For LTVs below 60%
> 2) For 7 year fixed rate mortgages.
> 
> Brendan


This applies for a very small cohort and I would not see it as a game changer.

But a 90% LTV and 15 year fixed option at about 2.5% would have a game changer especially for younger couples as they could budget their expenditure long term.


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## shweeney

no switching incentive is an issue. For me to switch to KBC I get 3K back, say 1.7K after the legal fees; the difference between 2.25% and 1.95% is about €300 per annum for me so I'd need to stay with Avant for 5+ years and assume rates don't fall further to come out ahead of switching to KBC...

AIB have already reacted, KBC may also drop rates...


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## Protocol

Brendan Burgess said:


> They are restricting lending to Dublin, Cork and Galway.



I don't see any mention of that on their website?

So just Dublin Cork and Galway cities?

Or counties?


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## Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess said:


> So Avant is game changing
> 1) For LTVs below 60%
> 2) For 7 year fixed rate mortgages.





peemac said:


> This applies for a very small cohort and I would not see it as a game changer.



That is not a small cohort at all.

Huge numbers of people have LTVs below 60%.  



peemac said:


> I think they missed an opportunity to bring 10 year and 15 year fixed rates at 2.5% or lower.



Personally, I would much prefer a 7 year rate of 1.95% to a 10 year rate of 2.5%. 

This is a game changer for most people if they can be bothered to switch. 

Brendan


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## shweeney

I know people like peace of mind but rates are only going one way over the next few years  (down) - I'd be reluctant to fix for a long period.


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## Sarenco

peemac said:


> This applies for a very small cohort and I would not see it as a game changer.


Given the very significant increases in residential property prices since 2012/13, I would imagine that there is actually a fairly large cohort of mortgage borrowers with 40%+ of equity in their PPR.

This move by Avant Money is very definitely a game changer for low-LTV mortgages.


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Brendan Burgess said:


> Huge numbers of people have LTVs below 60%.



Indeed, but many of them will have 10 years or less remaining on the term.

People with low LTVs and low payments as a share of income will be better able to ride the waves of interest risk and won't see the benefit of fixing the way someone paying 35% of their income will.


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## Sarenco

shweeney said:


> I know people like peace of mind but rates are only going one way over the next few years  (down) - I'd be reluctant to fix for a long period.


Without the benefit of a crystal ball, I don't see how you could possibly make that statement with any confidence.


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## Blackrock1

its not a no brainer, if there is no ability to overpay and no switching inducement (so you have legal fees) then you need to make sure the numbers work for you.


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## shweeney

Sarenco said:


> Without the benefit of a crystal ball, I don't see how you could possibly make that statement with any confidence.



OK, but I've been hearing for years it's only a matter of time before ECB rates start rising; it hasn't happened and with the pandemic seemingly with us for another year at least it's hard to see them rising anytime soon. Those ultra low rates have been slow to reach the Irish mortgage market but rates have been slowly dropping, they're certainly not going up. That's just my personal opinion, I've always been wary of fixed rates because you're effectively betting against the bank, but with fixed now where the competition is happening I'd be reluctant to fix for more than say 2 years.,


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## Wiresandmore

Does Avant not change this given you could get 1.95% fixed for 7? Have to say I find it very hard to see rates dropping much below that.


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## Sarenco

Blackrock1 said:


> its not a no brainer, if there is no ability to overpay and no switching inducement (so you have legal fees) then you need to make sure the numbers work for you


You can always have part of your mortgage at a variable rate of 2.5% that you can pay off as you see fit.

In any event, break fees will always be less than the interest that you would save by paying off early.

The legal fees/costs for switching will fade into insignificance for most borrowers if they result in a 50bps+ cut to their mortgage rate.


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## Deeks1

Brendan Burgess said:


> I understand that Avant will be quite selective in their underwriting.
> 
> For example, at present, they are considering only customers in Dublin, Cork or Galway.
> 
> And as they say in their press release:
> 
> 
> Stable employment with no obvious risk to future employment prospects
> 
> Brendan



How can they claim to be not "cherry picking" customers which is a direct quote from the interview this morning and then only consider customers from three cities. Surely thats the very definition of cherry picking??


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## Brendan Burgess

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Indeed, but many of them will have 10 years or less remaining on the term.



OK, that will narrow it down a bit.
But a lot of people took out 30 year mortgages in 2010 and so have 20 years left.

House prices have increased since then.
They have paid down capital.

So I would still think that it's a big enough cohort.

If you have 100k left with only 7 years to go you will save €3,500 interest if you get a 1% reduction. 

But in the first year, you will save €1,000 which will cover the legal costs.

So I think it's still worth doing.

Clearly, if you have €50k left with two years to go, it's not worth switching to another lender.

Brendan


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## ClubMan

Brendan Burgess said:


> 2) They have invested a lot in this project and so they want to make a big splash - they will not be cherry picking.





Brendan Burgess said:


> They are restricting lending to Dublin, Cork and Galway.


So they ARE cherry picking?!


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## ClubMan

shweeney said:


> any incentives to switch (other than the rate obviously)?


You mean gimmicks? 
Hopefully not and hopefully they focus on low rates as other lenders also should.


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## jim

I like the gimmicks. Made me some nice switchers fees recently by switching 3 times. Long live the gimmicks


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## Brendan Burgess

Deeks1 said:


> How can they claim to be not "cherry picking" customers which is a direct quote from the interview this morning



Yes, they are cherry picking and they are dead right to do so.

I remember attending the repossession court in Donegal.  A full day long session. Only about half of the cases reached. No orders granted.  I am not sure, but I think that outside Dublin and Cork , the person granting the order for possession is also the person who would have to enforce it. 

I suggested to a couple of bankers afterwards that they should announce very publicly no further mortgage lending in Donegal or Kerry until it was possible to enforce their security.  Kerry apparently was as lawless as Donegal. 

So lending to two or three cities and being competitive at less than 60% LTV makes sense. 

Brendan


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## Deeks1

Brendan Burgess said:


> Yes, they are cherry picking and they are dead right to do so.
> 
> I remember attending the repossession court in Donegal.  A full day long session. Only about half of the cases reached. No orders granted.  I am not sure, but I think that outside Dublin and Cork , the person granting the order for possession is also the person who would have to enforce it.
> 
> I suggested to a couple of bankers afterwards that they should announce very publicly no further mortgage lending in Donegal or Kerry until it was possible to enforce their security.  Kerry apparently was as lawless as Donegal.
> 
> So lending to two or three cities and being competitive at less than 60% LTV makes sense.
> 
> Brendan



I get that and can totally see the point. However they specified on the radio this morning that they were categorically not cherry picking which is complete rubbish as it turns out. Doesn't bode too well for the future if their first announcement is a sham.


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Deeks

Agreed.  They should be more honest, open and transparent in the same way all the other Irish lenders are.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess

I sent out a press release this afternoon. 

Fair Mortgage Rates Campaign welcomes the launch of Avant Mortgages



We have been campaigning for some years to highlight the very high mortgage rates paid by Irish mortgage holders so we welcome the launch of a rate of 1.95% today by Avant Mortgages

*Summary of Avant Mortgages *


3 years5 years7 years<60%1.95%1.95%1.95%<70%2.1%2.1%2.3%<80%2.2%2.2%2.4%>80%2.35%2.5%2.65%


Brendan Burgess said today that Avant has by far the lowest rate for people borrowing less than 60% of their Loan to Value. They are have the lowest rates for those who wants to fix for 7 years.

Some people argue that a difference of only .3% between Avant and the next cheapest is not that significant.   As it’s a saving every year, then it’s very significant.

A rate of 1.95% over 7 years is a very low rate and borrowers should give serious consideration to it.

And it must be remembered that there are probably around 100,000 customers between Bank of Ireland, Ulster Bank and permanent tsb who are paying rates of 4% and more.  With the increases in the value of properties over the last few years, many of these have substantial equity in their home and could halve their mortgage rate by switching.

For example, a Bank of Ireland customer with a mortgage of €200k on a property worth €400k, could save about €5,000 a year by switching to Avant. Or put it another way, the savings would pay the legal costs within 2 months of switching.

It’s not such great news for First Time Buyers who typically borrow up to 90% of the value of their home. The rates from other lenders, especially combined with cash backs, make this rate less competitive.  

Brendan Burgess




Comparison tables below 





*This makes Avant significantly cheaper than all the other lenders for those borrowers with a LTV of less than 60% *

Best Buys under 60% LTV


Max LTVFixed termRateCash backNotesAvant60%3, 5 or 7 years1.95%Ulster80%5 years2.2%€1,500€300k minimumKBC60%2 year2.25%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersKBC60%3 year2.25%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersAIB50%5 years Green2.25%Green MortgageUlster90%2 years2.3%€1,500FTB only


*Not such good news for First Time Buyers *

For the typical FTB who would be borrowing up to 90% of the value of their home, Ulster Bank is clearly better value with a slightly lower rate and a contribution of €1,500 towards legal fees.  

Best buys  80% to 90% LTV


Max LTVFixed termRateCash backNotesKBC90%2 year2.3%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersUlster90% 2 year FTB only2.3%€1,5003.5 times LTI KBC90%3 year2.35%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersAvant90%3 years2.35%Ulster90%2 years2.45%€1,500Non FTBsKBC90%5 year2.5%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersKBC90%1 year2.5%€3,000 for switchers onlyCurrent a/c customersAvant90%5 years2.5%AIB90%3 or 5 years2.55%€2,000 for switchers only
 



* 

But Avant does have the lowest long term fixed rates *

A First Time Buyer who needs 90% Loan to Value can fix for 7 years with Avant at 2.65%

A comparison of longer term fixed rates


Max LTVFixed termRateCash backNotesAvant80%7 years2.4%Avant90%7 years2.65%AIB80%7 years3.05%€2,000 switchersAIB80%10 years3.2%€2,000 switchers​Ulster90%7 years3.14%€1,500​Ulster90%10 years3.15%€1,500*First time buyers only*Ulster90%10 years3.25%€1,500*Non first time buyers *KBC80%10 years2.99%€3,000 switchers KBC90%10 years3.2%€3,000 switchers


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## _OkGo_

Blackrock1 said:


> its not a no brainer, if there is no ability to overpay and no switching inducement (so you have legal fees) then you need to make sure the numbers work for you.



Agreed, I don't think it is game changing but it is certainly competitive. It is only the 7 year fixed that they stand out on

UB's 5yr high value mortgage and KBCs 3 year fixed are better offerings as they allow 10% overpayment plus switching costs. This gives homeowners far more flexibility. You can choose a longer term to reduce the monthly payment to protect against changes in employment status etc but proactively overpay when all is going to plan. Without the overpayment option, you would need to choose a much shorter term length and accept the risk of meeting that larger monthly payment.


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## Sarenco

_OkGo_ said:


> UB's 5yr high value mortgage and KBCs 3 year fixed are better offerings as they allow 10% overpayment plus switching costs


UB's 5yr high value mortgage has a €300k minimum, with €1,500 cash back. 

The Avant rate is 0.25% lower (with a max LTV of 60%) so you would save €3,750 in interest payments over the UB option on a €300k mortgage over the 5-year period.

If you really want the flexibility to make payments ahead of schedule without the possibility of break fees, you could always take 10% of your mortgage at a 2.5% variable rate, which you could overpay as you see fit.  That would still work out as a materially better deal than UB's 5yr high value mortgage offering.

Brendan's conclusion is bang on - Avant is significantly cheaper than all other lenders for borrowers with an LTV of less than 60%.


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## impop

Nothing to add but plenty to thank. Been following this thread all day and it's been certainly very helpful and informative. Thanks all


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## SPC100

I think I'd be leaning towards their 3 year fix.

If no (free) overpayment is allowed, maybe put a small bit on their variable.

You bag the lowest rate in the market.

You can over pay a bit (the variable without charges).

And then you Hope that more competition will arrive within 3 years. And that rates don't go against you.

If you want to overpay more than the part on variable, you only have to wait 3 years.


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## SPC100

Their website says through brokers only. How much does the broker get paid?


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## SPC100

Ireland’s best value mortgages
					

Lower your monthly repayments and save thousands over the life of your mortgage with Avant Money.




					www.avantmoney.ie


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## Brendan Burgess

SPC100 said:


> How much does the broker get paid?



I don't know but it's a good question.

I wonder would any of them do a split fee with you? 

Brendan


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## Gordon Gekko

Some people are never happy.

These guys are making a splash.

Yet there are people who want to nitpick.

These rates are gamechanging.


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## Wikywoo

I contacted a broker today, they charge a flat fee of €295.


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## SPC100

Gordon Gekko said:


> Some people are never happy.
> 
> These guys are making a splash.
> 
> Yet there are people who want to nitpick.
> 
> These rates are gamechanging.


I agree. I welcome you and thank you Avant. Welcome at mine for an outdoor cup of tea anytime.


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## Gordon Gekko

“But they won’t give me cashback”

“But they don’t contribute to the cost of my legal fees”

“Can I get a cut of the money paid to the broker?”

A provider has introduced a product priced with a ‘1’ in front of it. And lots of products in the lows ‘2s’. And variable rates in the mid-2s.

This is a great day for Irish mortgage holders.


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## SPC100

No.
no.
maybe?

Market leading low rates! Competition is great.

I think the commission one is an interesting question.


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## peemac

SPC100 said:


> No.
> no.
> maybe?
> 
> Market leading low rates! Competition is great.
> 
> I think the commission one is an interesting question.


Probably cheaper to pay commissions than to employ a sales team.


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## Protocol

Wikywoo said:


> I contacted a broker today, they charge a flat fee of €295.




Huh??

Surely the broker gets paid commission? Isn't it 0.5% or 1%?

I have never heard of mortgage brokers charging fees?


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## Gordon Gekko

They usually charge a fee and then refund it on successful drawdown


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## _OkGo_

Sarenco said:


> The Avant rate is 0.25% lower (with a max LTV of 60%) so you would save €3,750 in interest payments over the UB option on a €300k mortgage over the 5-year period.
> 
> If you really want the flexibility to make payments ahead of schedule without the possibility of break fees, you could always take 10% of your mortgage at a 2.5% variable rate, which you could overpay as you see fit. That would still work out as a materially better deal than UB's 5yr high value mortgage offering.



Yes I agree that in your example it works out better by ~€2250 over the 5 years but my point was more that consumers should run their own numbers to choose the best option. If you believe that you can overpay by €5-10k per year with UB, it would work out cheaper than saving that €25-50k lump sum and paying at the end of the Avant 5 year. These are both good options but consumers shouldn't just look at the headline %interest figure but plan their repayment schedule.



Gordon Gekko said:


> Yet there are people who want to nitpick.


 


Gordon Gekko said:


> “But they won’t give me cashback”
> 
> “But they don’t contribute to the cost of my legal fees”
> 
> “Can I get a cut of the money paid to the broker?”



Is nitpicking not the point of this forum? And just like the mortgage providers have a responsibility to publish the APRC, consumers should calculate their own effective interest rate over the fixed period that includes the switching cashback to accurately compare products. There is no difference between a %int reduction or a cashback offer, they are both savings for the consumer so you need to work out which one is better value

Avant will be competitive at 3/5 years but they are leading at 7 years so overall they are good for the market, hopefully pushing others to drop a little further too


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## Sarenco

_OkGo_ said:


> If you believe that you can overpay by €5-10k per year with UB, it would work out cheaper than saving that €25-50k lump sum and paying at the end of the Avant 5 year


If you believe you can overpay by €10k per annum over the five year period, you could always take €50k of the Avant mortgage at a variable rate of 2.5%, which you can pay down as you see fit with no potential break fees.

That would still work out materially better (~€2k saving) than the UB option on a €300k mortgage.


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## _OkGo_

Again you are correct in that instance but the difference is smaller (~€1k) when principal write down is included. However, we don't know that Avant are offering a split rate with that SVR? I stand to be corrected but I haven't seen any split or variable products offered on the website so it may not be possible to take 50k on an SVR. They have only advertised follow on rates that may or may not not change in 3/5/7 years time.

Admittedly I haven't spoken to a broker yet but it would be interesting for anyone who has to add some of the T&C's around this kind of split and if they are willing to do this at the 2.5% follow on rate


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## Sarenco

_OkGo_ said:


> Again you are correct in that instance but the difference is smaller (~€1k) when principal write down is included


Identical principal repayments are made in both cases to arrive at the ~€2k differential in the cost to the borrower of €300k over the 5-year term.

I don't know of any lender that doesn't allow borrowers to fix a proportion of their mortgage, while keeping the balance on a variable rate.  

The bottom line remains the same - Avant are significantly cheaper than all other lenders for borrowers with an LTV of less than 60%.


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## jim

Can I get a cut of the money paid to the broker?


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## misemoi

.Are avant offering exemptions? Surely they have no argument that they will run out by the end of the year (and at this point it is not even a valid argument for the established banks)


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## Sarenco

misemoi said:


> Are avant offering exemptions?


I very much doubt it - that's not the end of the market they are trying to capture.


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## Gordon Gekko

I’m starting to look like a dope for fixing at 2.5% for 5.5 years...


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Gordon

Which lender? 

Did you ask what the break fee is? 

It might be worth breaking out.

Brendan


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## Blackrock1

Gordon Gekko said:


> I’m starting to look like a dope for fixing at 2.5% for 5.5 years...



you and me both, i still have 3 years left, break fee is high


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## Poppyseed

Sarenco said:


> Identical principal repayments are made in both cases to arrive at the ~€2k differential in the cost to the borrower of €300k over the 5-year term.
> 
> I don't know of any lender that doesn't allow borrowers to fix a proportion of their mortgage, while keeping the balance on a variable rate.
> 
> The bottom line remains the same - Avant are significantly cheaper than all other lenders for borrowers with an LTV of less than 60%.



Just FYI, not sure if this is a definite but I was in contact with a broker and they've said Avant allow you overpay by 1% of the balance of the mortgage each year. Don't know the full details as we are only in initial stages but thought it might be helpful here.


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## Jazz01

Gordon Gekko said:


> I’m starting to look like a dope for fixing at 2.5% for 5.5 years...


Ditto - I'm also feeling like one  I'm with AIB on 2.45% fixed for 5 years (<50% LTV). I've asked them about the breakout fee to switch to their latest lower rate. I was told things are very busy and they will be back in touch with me in the coming days. I'll post back what they come back with.


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## Jazz01

Blackrock1 said:


> i still have 3 years left, break fee is high


What bank is that with? Were you moving your mortgage elsewhere or just trying to change to a lower rate with the same bank?


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## Blackrock1

Jazz01 said:


> What bank is that with? Were you moving your mortgage elsewhere or just trying to change to a lower rate with the same bank?



Ulster bank, their own rates are lowest so it was to move to a lower rate with them.


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## Blackrock1

7 year fixed in blighty 1.45%



			https://www.barclays.co.uk/content/dam/documents/personal/mortgages/emcrewardcustomerratesheet.pdf


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## Sarn

First of all, it’s great to see new competition. However, as pointed out by others, you need to do the calculations and decide what suits best. 

For example:
KBC (current account mortgage) switcher, €3k cashback 
250k, 20 year term at 2.25% (LTV<60%) = €1295/month. 

Avant
250k, 20 year term at 1.95% (LTV<60%) = €1259/month.

Although the difference is €36/month or €432/year with Avant, it will take almost 7 years to match the €3k cashback.


----------



## Sarenco

Blackrock1 said:


> 7 year fixed in blighty 1.45%


With a £749 arrangement fee and a whopping 5% early repayment charge.


----------



## Sarenco

Sarn said:


> KBC (current account mortgage) switcher, €3k cashback
> 250k, 20 year term at 2.25% (LTV<60%) = €1295/month.


If you are going to make comparisons based on a 20-year term, I think you have to take account of the fact that KBC's roll-to rate is materially higher than the roll-to rate offered by Avant.

I think the easiest way to take account of cash back offers is to simply deduct it from the opening loan balance.  So, in this case €250@1.95% versus €247@2.25%.


----------



## _OkGo_

€3k cashback is the equivalent of €1k interest per year. The difference in rates is 0.3%

€1000/0.3% = €333k

If borrowing above €333k, Avant is better value. Below €333k then KBC is better.

This does not account for follow on rates or change in circumstance that could prevent switching in 3 years. So while KBC is better on the lower amount, you run the risk of getting caught on a higher variable at the end of the fixed term as Sarenco points out


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Gordon
> 
> Which lender?
> 
> Did you ask what the break fee is?
> 
> It might be worth breaking out.
> 
> Brendan



Hi Brendan,

Ulster Bank. I’d need to check but I’m only 1-1.5 years into a 5.5 year deal, so the break fee must be huge I’d have thought. But I’ll check for good order.

Many thanks,

Gordon


----------



## Sarn

_OkGo_ said:


> This does not account for follow on rates or change in circumstance that could prevent switching in 3 years. So while KBC is better on the lower amount, you run the risk of getting caught on a higher variable at the end of the fixed term as Sarenco points out



Getting caught on a higher rate is a possibility at the end of the fixed period, equally it is possible that you could move to a better one after 2 or 3 years.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

I suppose what I could do is a ‘multiple switch’...go somewhere that pays me 2% of the value of the mortgage, and then immediately go to Avant.

The 2% would put a chunk in the break-fee.

UB say that the break-fee is the lesser of two amounts:

1) Six months’ interest

2) [Redeemed Amount x (R - R1) x Days Left] / 360

R equals the interest rate available to the bank on money markets for the duration of the fixed period

R1 equals the interest rate available to the bank on money markets for the remainder of the fixed period

So let’s say 1) is €2,500 per €100,000 (I know it’s not)

And for €100,000, 2) should be [100,000 x (Negative - Negative) x 1,460] / 360,

So is 2) a negative number, and therefore zero?!

The rates that Irish financial institutions get on money markets for 1-5 year deposits are negative, so how can the formula throw up a positive number?

And I fixed for 5 years but it turned out to be 5.5 years. Is it 5 years or 5.5 years for the purposes of the calculation (which may be a moot point)?


----------



## Sarenco

_OkGo_ said:


> If borrowing above €333k, Avant is better value. Below €333k then KBC is better.


That seems to check out over the three year fixed-rate period but bear in mind that the €3k cashback from KBC is only available to switchers.

Where it's a relatively close call, I would be inclined to opt for the lender that has demonstrated an intention to compete on rates alone.


----------



## jim

O/s mortg of 170k with aib 2.9% 27 yrs left. 700 per mnth. Ltv 50%.

Option 1: go to avant at 1.95% mnthly repayment 650. Solic fee 1500, valuer 180. So woukd take three - ish yrs to recoup outlay.

Option 2: go to kbc at 2.4% (approx?). Collect 3k cashback minus 1680 is 1320 net. Repayments down to 675ish.

Allowing for some innacuracies in my figures which im open to correction on, option 2 seems much better.

Avant allow overpay on fixed rate of just 1% which isnt good either.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

jim said:


> Allowing for some innacuracies in my figures



This really is simple.  You don't need a mortgage calculator. 

 I don't know how often we have to say it. Ignore repayments and just look at the interest rate.

AIB rate: 2.9%
Avant 1.95%
Difference: 1% 

Savings per year €170k @1% = €1,700

which is your savings in the first year.
Brendan


----------



## pcowan

Thanks everyone - new here but found this site really useful before I called my broker today.  Here are my details:

260,000 left on the mortgage for 25 more years at 80% LTV.  House is in Kildare town.   Paying 1206 per month to BOI at rate of 2.8% - fixed rate about to finish.  Broker told me it was a no brainer to switch.   No fee to broker and about 1000 legal cost.  But then I get a Avant money 3 or 5 year fixed at 2.20% or a 7 year at 2.40%.  My repayments drop to 1128 per month (-78 every month) or a saving of 45,000 over the life of my mortgage.

Broker also says Avant Money will do Kildare no problem.  And says they have a 1% overpayment amount - but it is on the original mortgage - so for me that is up to 2,600 every year without a penalty.   Should be loads for me.  

What do you think - seems a good deal to me.  Spend 1000 now and save 45,000 over time.  The 1000 is repaid in the savings of the first year.  Broker says it takes about 2 or 3 months and they do the work for me.  

Any advice before I press the yes button on this? I am thinking the 5 year rate is best for me.


----------



## time to plan

I wonder what their attitude will be to self employed / propriety directors: 2 years’ accounts; 3 years’ accounts; no thanks.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

pcowan said:


> What do you think - seems a good deal to me.



I don't know where to start. There are so many flaws in your thinking.  

So I created a Key Post to show how to do it correctly.





__





						Key Post - How to evaluate if it's worth fixing, switching or breaking out of a fixed rate
					

Almost every post on this topic is wrong. No matter how often it is pointed out, people look at the wrong figures. They use mortgage calculators when they don't need them. Most of the time, you can do the figures in your head.  Do not look at the monthly repayments – they are misleading.  Do not...



					askaboutmoney.com


----------



## pcowan

Wow Brendan - thank you for your Key Post.  The advice is helpful.   So I now calculate that I can save 2.8%-2.2% = 0.6% x 5 years x 260,000   = €7,800 Take away the €1000 fee and I still make €6,800 savings in the next five years - over a grand a year.   Nice money for doing very little - and much better in my pocket than BOI.

And then, from your other posts, if I don't do anything I am better with a lender like Avant or AIB who are rate leaders and are more likely to have the best variable if I don't or can't switch.  That could be a large savings but I hear your advice not to count that too quickly in case my circumstances change.

Hopefully I have understood - and thank you for your guidance here.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Hi p

Spot on. 

And yes, review it after 5 years. 

Or if interest rates fall in the meantime, it's worth reviewing it again to see if it's worth paying a break fee to switch to a different rate with Avant or to a different lender.

Brendan


----------



## Sarenco

pcowan said:


> So I now calculate that I can save 2.8%-2.2% = 0.6% x 5 years x 260,000 = €7,800


The interest saving would actually be slightly less than that because you would continue to pay down the principal balance over the fixed term.  By my calculations, the interest saving would be roughly €7,400 over the 5 years.

However, because of the way mortgages are calculated, your principal balance will be roughly €3,000 lower at the end of the 5 years.  That will have a compounding impact over the remaining 20 year term of the mortgage because you will be paying interest (at whatever rate) on a principal balance that will be roughly €3,000 lower than it would otherwise have been.

The bottom line is that it's well worth your while to switch your mortgage to Avant.


----------



## pguyo

I submitted an enquiry with one of the brokers online and they automatically retuen a list of all the documentation as required to submit application and €500 for the privilage.....€500 for forwarding documents to Avant.......
It is a pity you cant apply directly to Avant.


----------



## Sarenco

pguyo said:


> €500 for the privilage


Is that not refunded if the application is successful and the broker receives commission from Avant?


----------



## pguyo

Sarenco said:


> Is that not refunded if the application is successful and the broker receives commission from Avant?



It states it is waived if you take out your mortgage protection policy with a sister company prior to application being submitted.


----------



## Sarenco

pguyo said:


> It states it is waived if you take out your mortgage protection policy with a sister company prior to application being submitted.


I would shop around if I was you.


----------



## Protocol

pguyo said:


> It states it is waived if you take out your mortgage protection policy with a sister company prior to application being submitted.



A sister company to the broker?

Or a sister company of Avant?


----------



## Bruegel

I'm switching at the moment. Can I sense-check my logic here?

Depending on valuation, we may sneak in to <60% LTV but I suspect we will be more at the 62% range. Therefore KBC is 2.3% for 3 year fixed and Avant would be 2.1%. 

Assumption number 1: We want to have the flexibility to trade-up in a 3 to 5 year period from now. Therefore avoid fixing for more than 3 years to avoid any break fees complications meaning the no-brainer of fixing for 7 years is out for us. Is this logic correct?

Taking a three year period: Interest saving for Avant over KBC is €380,000 x 0.2% x 3 = €2,280. Against that I get €3k cashback from KBC and can apply directly avoid dealing with brokers and potential fees there. [KBC better off by €720].

If valuation meant that we were below 60%, comparison is €380,000 x 0.3% (2.25% KBC v. 1.95% Avant) x 3 = €3,420 [Avant better off by €420].

Interest saving is a bit overstated as the balance will be reducing over 3 years [we are planning on taking a 15 year term]. KBC allow more flexibility in overpaying also.

Great to have a competitive entrant though.


----------



## Risk Reversal

Gordon Gekko said:


> I suppose what I could do is a ‘multiple switch’...go somewhere that pays me 2% of the value of the mortgage, and then immediately go to Avant.
> 
> The 2% would put a chunk in the break-fee.
> 
> UB say that the break-fee is the lesser of two amounts:
> 
> 1) Six months’ interest
> 
> 2) [Redeemed Amount x (R - R1) x Days Left] / 360
> 
> R equals the interest rate available to the bank on money markets for the duration of the fixed period
> 
> R1 equals the interest rate available to the bank on money markets for the remainder of the fixed period
> 
> So let’s say 1) is €2,500 per €100,000 (I know it’s not)
> 
> And for €100,000, 2) should be [100,000 x (Negative - Negative) x 1,460] / 360,
> 
> So is 2) a negative number, and therefore zero?!
> 
> The rates that Irish financial institutions get on money markets for 1-5 year deposits are negative, so how can the formula throw up a positive number?
> 
> And I fixed for 5 years but it turned out to be 5.5 years. Is it 5 years or 5.5 years for the purposes of the calculation (which may be a moot point)?


Depending on the negative numbers, two negative numbers in that formula can throw up a positive number


----------



## SPC100

Why favour five years over three?

We expect downward competition pressure to continue?
Ability to complete repossessions can't get worse.
We still are soon higher margin that most of europe?


----------



## pguyo

Protocol said:


> A sister company to the broker?
> 
> Or a sister company of Avant?



To broker


----------



## Itchy

pguyo said:


> I submitted an enquiry with one of the brokers online and they automatically retuen a list of all the documentation as required to submit application and €500 for the privilage.....€500 for forwarding documents to Avant.......
> It is a pity you cant apply directly to Avant.



There are brokers with no fee out there.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Risk Reversal said:


> Depending on the negative numbers, two negative numbers in that formula can throw up a positive number



Many thanks, but I’m struggling to see how when it’s institutional deposit rate for 5 years minus institutional deposit rate for 4 years, both of which are negative, and with the 5 year number less negative than the 4 year number, how that can be positive.

-X - (-Y) has to be negative surely when X>Y

Or am I missing something?


----------



## Risk Reversal

Gordon Gekko said:


> Many thanks, but I’m struggling to see how when it’s institutional deposit rate for 5 years minus institutional deposit rate for 4 years, both of which are negative, and with the 5 year number less negative than the 4 year number, how that can be positive.
> 
> -X - (-Y) has to be negative surely when X>Y
> 
> Or am I missing something?



Not necessarily. The banks fund themsleves off Euribors in the interbank swap market. These tend to move around a good bit.

So in your example the 5 year swap rate at the start of June 19 for instance was circa -0.20% but the four year swap rate in June 2020 was circa -0.35%. 

So X - Y for that example would be +0.15


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

Gordon Gekko said:


> Many thanks, but I’m struggling to see how when it’s institutional deposit rate for 5 years minus institutional deposit rate for 4 years, both of which are negative, and with the 5 year number less negative than the 4 year number, how that can be positive.



You are looking at two different points in time. And market rates change all the time.

X=interbank rate for the given term *when you fixed*
Y=interbank rate for remainder of term *today*.

^^^^^^^^^^I have no professional expertise and anyone more knowledgeable please correct me^^^^^


----------



## Risk Reversal

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> You are looking at two different points in time. And market rates change all the time.
> 
> X=interbank rate for the given term *when you fixed*
> Y=interbank rate for remainder of term *today*.
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^I have no professional expertise and anyone more knowledgeable please correct me^^^^^


That's pretty much it with a worked example above by me


----------



## impop

pcowan said:


> Thanks everyone - new here but found this site really useful before I called my broker today.  Here are my details:
> 
> 260,000 left on the mortgage for 25 more years at 80% LTV.  House is in Kildare town.   Paying 1206 per month to BOI at rate of 2.8% - fixed rate about to finish.  Broker told me it was a no brainer to switch.   No fee to broker and about 1000 legal cost.  But then I get a Avant money 3 or 5 year fixed at 2.20% or a 7 year at 2.40%.  My repayments drop to 1128 per month (-78 every month) or a saving of 45,000 over the life of my mortgage.
> 
> Broker also says Avant Money will do Kildare no problem.  And says they have a 1% overpayment amount - but it is on the original mortgage - so for me that is up to 2,600 every year without a penalty.   Should be loads for me.
> 
> What do you think - seems a good deal to me.  Spend 1000 now and save 45,000 over time.  The 1000 is repaid in the savings of the first year.  Broker says it takes about 2 or 3 months and they do the work for me.
> 
> Any advice before I press the yes button on this? I am thinking the 5 year rate is best for me.



Hi pcowan, would you mind sharing which broker you deal with?
thanks


----------



## Marco 1972

Some interesting and informative threads there. I have an AIB Variable mortgage (D13 Apt nr Clongriffin Dart)  at 3.15 % over 30 years, 14 years into that period now and would reasonably guess have a LTV just over 50%. Am wondering if the Avant move is the start of a 'mortgage rate' war and will lenders like AIB respond in kind and will that be exacerbated by Covid, ECB decisions , particularly from the new year on.  I probably just want a steer as regards the wisdom of possibly switching now or holding off for 6 months to see what happens....


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Well if you are at 50% LTV, you should be looking at getting a lower variable rate with AIB 

The Less than 50% rate is 2.75% 

Brendan


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

Marco 1972 said:


> I have an AIB Variable mortgage (D13 Apt nr Clongriffin Dart) at 3.15 % over 30 years, 14 years into that period now and would reasonably guess have a LTV just over 50%.



Not likely. Your apartment probably isn't worth what you've paid for it in 2006 and without a tracker you'll have paid off only about 40% of the balance by now.


----------



## shweeney

Marco 1972 said:


> Some interesting and informative threads there. I have an AIB Variable mortgage (D13 Apt nr Clongriffin Dart)  at 3.15 % over 30 years, 14 years into that period now and would reasonably guess have a LTV just over 50%. Am wondering if the Avant move is the start of a 'mortgage rate' war and will lenders like AIB respond in kind and will that be exacerbated by Covid, ECB decisions , particularly from the new year on.  I probably just want a steer as regards the wisdom of possibly switching now or holding off for 6 months to see what happens....



AIB have already responded, but only on fixed rates. Nobody really seems to be competing on variables anymore.


----------



## PolkaDot

Has anyone found a broker who doesn’t charge a fee??


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Michael Dowling of Dowling Financial told me that he does not charge a fee. 

There are some other brokers not on the list who have arrangements with the named broker.  They might absorb the fee.

Brendan


----------



## Banquo

PolkaDot said:


> Has anyone found a broker who doesn’t charge a fee??


You might try Park Financial?


----------



## impop

I read here that doodle.ie are also with Avant and don't have fees









						Making Cents: Moves in the mortgage market may mean savings
					

Making Cents: Moves in the mortgage market may mean savings: A comprehensive series of articles on this topic




					www.irishexaminer.com


----------



## dereko1969

Brendan Burgess said:


> Well if you are at 50% LTV, you should be looking at getting a lower variable rate with AIB
> 
> The Less than 50% rate is 2.75%
> 
> Brendan


My experience with AIB was that they wouldn't entertain a switch to a lower LTV if your first rate with them was also based on LTV. My first rate was <80% i think so they wouldn't let me switch to a <50%


----------



## PolkaDot

dereko1969 said:


> My experience with AIB was that they wouldn't entertain a switch to a lower LTV if your first rate with them was also based on LTV. My first rate was <80% i think so they wouldn't let me switch to a <50%



That was their policy previously I think, but no longer is the case as far as I know. Worth checking it out with them again.


----------



## Daragh29

dereko1969 said:


> My experience with AIB was that they wouldn't entertain a switch to a lower LTV if your first rate with them was also based on LTV. My first rate was <80% i think so they wouldn't let me switch to a <50%


My mortgage is with Aib, they allowed me to switch to a better rate once the ltv had improved. Website stated i needed a new valuation completed but they didn't request one


----------



## Brendan Burgess

dereko1969 said:


> My experience with AIB was that they wouldn't entertain a switch to a lower LTV if your first rate with them was also based on LTV. My first rate was <80% i think so they wouldn't let me switch to a <50%



They officially changed their policy 18 months ago. An existing customer can avail of a lower LTV mortgage and it's now on their website. 









						Change mortgage details
					






					aib.ie
				





Change the Loan to Value (LTV) on my current Mortgage
You may have the option to move to a lower LTV band as the loan to value on your current PDH mortgage reduces.
Before you can move to a lower LTV band, you may need to provide us with an updated full valuation report. There are a couple of points you should be aware of:

you are responsible for arranging the valuation report and for the cost.
the valuation report must be dated within the past 6 months.
the valuation report must be completed by an approved valuer from the AIB Residential Mortgage Valuer's Panel.


----------



## Padjo2007

I just got my place valued to try and avail of the 2.35% AIB rate for the <50% LTV. Unfortunately my LTV is coming in at 52%. Should I just move my mortgage to Avant and avail of their <60% rate or try and negotiate with AIB? Would they even be open to negotiation?


----------



## PebbleBeach2020

Padjo2007 said:


> I just got my place valued to try and avail of the 2.35% AIB rate for the <50% LTV. Unfortunately my LTV is coming in at 52%. Should I just move my mortgage to Avant and avail of their <60% rate or try and negotiate with AIB? Would they even be open to negotiation?


They won't negotiate. Could you slip the valuer a few quid?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

How much is your mortgage balance? 

Can you pay a lump sum off the mortgage to reduce it to 50%

But in any event, would it not be worth switching to Avant to pay 1.95% instead of 2.35%? 

Brendan


----------



## Padjo2007

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> They won't negotiate. Could you slip the valuer a few quid?


I spoke to the valuer and he put the price at the absolute max that he could which is the 52%


----------



## Padjo2007

Brendan Burgess said:


> Can you pay a lump sum off the mortgage to reduce it to 50


My mortgage balance is €194,110 so I would need to pay a lump sum of about €10,000 to get it down to <50%. I think switching to Avant might be my best option alright as the 10k would put a significant dent in my savings.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Yes, it seems best to switch to Avant. 

Your best rate with AIB at 52% is 2.45% so you save 0.5% a year by switching to Avant for the same term

0.5% of €194k is €1,000 , so you will recover the legal costs in the first year. 

Even if you get it down to 50% with AIB, there would still be a gap of 0.4% or €800 a year. 

Brendan


----------



## Padjo2007

Thanks for that Brendan. I appreciate the advice


----------



## Wiresandmore

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere on the thread but does Avantcard allow any overpayment in their fixed terms?


----------



## Banquo

Wiresandmore said:


> Apologies if this is covered elsewhere on the thread but does Avantcard allow any overpayment in their fixed terms?


I don't believe so


----------



## Banquo

Are AIB the only lender to respond to the introduction of Avant to the market?


----------



## iamaspinner

Wiresandmore said:


> Apologies if this is covered elsewhere on the thread but does Avantcard allow any overpayment in their fixed terms?



I think Avant allow an overpayment of 1% of the total loan drawndown per annum without penalty.


----------



## James5

iamaspinner said:


> I think Avant allow an overpayment of 1% of the total loan drawndown per annum without penalty.



Have you seen this documented somewhere or been advised by one of their brokers?


----------



## iamaspinner

James5 said:


> Have you seen this documented somewhere or been advised by one of their brokers?



Yes, it is on the "Avant Money Broker Application Declaration, Authorisation and Consent Form" I received from the broker:



> There is also no redemption fee, if you are on a fixed rate of interest and your early repayments annually (i.e. payment(s) over and above the scheduled monthly instalments in any 12-month period) do not exceed 1% of the total loan(s) drawndown.


----------



## pumba

Just an update regarding Avantmoney I live in the Northwest of the country, not in Dublin or Cork, but in an area where there is very high demand for houses and the price of houses has not fallen but has consistently gone up in the last 10 years. I contacted Deirdre a lovely broker in Park Financial and we had a conversation about me switching our mortgage to Avantmoney all of which was really positive in terms of my eligibility until just at the end of the call she said “ I presume you live in Dublin”. When I said no, she said Avantmoney will only give mortgages to people living in areas where there is a high demand for houses in their words. She said she would enquire as to my address being covered but I knew by the tone of her voice it was likely a no go. The next day she rang me back and sure enough Avantmoney said no. So disappointed as I know I’m a fairly solid bet ( reluctant to say that as you just never know what life holds) and I’ve switched before and intend continuing to do so in order to take advantage of better rates as often as I can. If things change in this regard in terms of location restriction would other people mind posting here so I know to try again.


----------



## cannco253

Banquo said:


> Are AIB the only lender to respond to the introduction of Avant to the market?



I thought we were expecting to see others move, any idea if BoI are planning any changes?


----------



## Protocol

Other than pumba, is there any more detail/evidence of Avant's policy regarding the location of houses?


----------



## nephster

Protocol said:


> Other than pumba, is there any more detail/evidence of Avant's policy regarding the location of houses?








						Avant Money launches a new mortgage today from < 2%
					

Just on Breakfast Business on Newstalk this morning. Fixed Rates from 1.95% and Variable from 2.5%. No further detail than that but will be announced today apparently.



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				



...same info in the papers, but can't see anything about it on the Avant site.


----------



## banjopotato

Switching mortgage here and just got approval in principle from Avant.

My age is an issue with most lenders because I'm 10 years and 8 months shy of mandatory retirement age (70 on my contract) and 70 is the maximum age by which they insist the balance be paid off.

Avant say (through my broker) that they will not do a mortgage for any term that isn't in whole years. In other words, despite being almost 11 years away from the maximum, they won't give me a mortgage for more than 10 years. It seems completely arbitrary, not to mention foolish: a longer term lowers my monthly payments slightly and also earns them more money.

Anyone else heard this from Avant (or from any other lender, for that matter)?


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Yes, that was the case with Ulster Bank when I drew-down my last mortgage.


----------



## banjopotato

Strange. At the time Avant Money made their big announcement, we were approved in principle with Ulster Bank at 2.6% on a 7-year fixed and they were willing to go 10 years, 6 months.

I'm really wondering what could possibly be the rationale for such a policy....


----------



## PolkaDot

Banquo said:


> You might try Park Financial?



Called Park Financial to make an enquiry. Can confirm they don't charge an application fee.


----------



## Coldwarrior

banjopotato said:


> Switching mortgage here and just got approval in principle from Avant.
> 
> My age is an issue with most lenders because I'm 10 years and 8 months shy of mandatory retirement age (70 on my contract) and 70 is the maximum age by which they insist the balance be paid off.
> 
> Avant say (through my broker) that they will not do a mortgage for any term that isn't in whole years. In other words, despite being almost 11 years away from the maximum, they won't give me a mortgage for more than 10 years. It seems completely arbitrary, not to mention foolish: a longer term lowers my monthly payments slightly and also earns them more money.
> 
> Anyone else heard this from Avant (or from any other lender, for that matter)?


Think most of the banks will only lend for a whole number of years, it's daft I know.


----------



## cuttothechase

Hi all.
I spoke to a broker in Dodl about switching to Avant. He too confirmed Avants policy about only lending in urban areas such as Dublin, Cork, Galway etc... He said he can't see their policy changing in the next 12 months. This seems crazy as the are losing out on good business and limiting their market. They certainly didn't state these terms when entering the market..


----------



## Gordon Gekko

It isn’t really.

If you’re going to lend at 1.95% into a market where it’s nigh on impossible to enforce security, it’s logical to try and manage other risks such as the size and liquidity of the relevant housing market.

People from the back of beyond never seem to want to accept this, but houses outside of the main urban centres just aren’t as desirable from a lending perspective; typically harder to value and typically harder to sell.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

And when they reopen, take a trip to the Registrar's court in Kerry or Donegal and see how hard it is for a lender to get an order for possession. 

And when they get an order, see how long it takes for them to get the sheriff to enforce the order. 

Brendan


----------



## pumba

Gordon Gekko said:


> It isn’t really.
> 
> If you’re going to lend at 1.95% into a market where it’s nigh on impossible to enforce security, it’s logical to try and manage other risks such as the size and liquidity of the relevant housing market.
> 
> People from the back of beyond never seem to want to accept this, but houses outside of the main urban centres just aren’t as desirable from a lending perspective; typically harder to value and typically harder to sell.



That answer though is one size fits all because there are areas outside of Dublin and the main cities which are pockets of houses which are easy to value because they always maintain their value and are easy to sell (Long-standing sought after/desirable areas). That policy completely ignores this fact and just takes the easy option but by doing so they are losing out on some very reliable customers


----------



## Brendan Burgess

pumba said:


> That policy completely ignores this fact and just takes the easy option but by doing so they are losing out on some very reliable customers



Hi pumba

But there is plenty of business for them in the main centres. They would have to assess each of these pockets separately and that would not justify the potential return.  

Don't forget that they are just a month or so in the market. They may well extend it over time.

Brendan


----------



## Gordon Gekko

pumba said:


> That answer though is one size fits all because there are areas outside of Dublin and the main cities which are pockets of houses which are easy to value because they always maintain their value and are easy to sell (Long-standing sought after/desirable areas). That policy completely ignores this fact and just takes the easy option but by doing so they are losing out on some very reliable customers



Why bother though?

People seem to think that these guys are fulfilling some sort of public service. They’re not.

If I was lending at 1.95% into this market, I wouldn’t touch anything outside of the main urban centres, I wouldn’t touch apartments, and I wouldn’t lend to anyone with even a tangential link to a Covid-related business.

I have heard stories of lenders looking at the accounts of the employer of a potential borrower and turning them down solely on the basis of the business losing money. Proper order. Rates at these levels imply minimal risk. Avant Money should only lend to “super prime” cases, otherwise they are mispricing risk.


----------



## Banquo

Perhaps we are moving toward a truly differentiated market whereby banks will price more on the credit risk of the individual and the property. It will suit some more than others.


----------



## cuttothechase

There are lots of people living outside the bigger urban areas that are low risk customers. Avant should look at each case individually and assess the level of risk that's involved. Of course they can lend to whoever they want, but they are certainly limiting their market. An individuals circumstances and situation is more importance than the exact location of their property. That should not be the one and only criteria they take into account. As previously mentioned one size does not fit all.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

cuttothechase said:


> There are lots of people living outside the bigger urban areas that are low risk customers. Avant should look at each case individually and assess the level of risk that's involved. Of course they can lend to whoever they want, but they are certainly limiting their market. An individuals circumstances and situation is more importance than the exact location of their property. That should not be the one and only criteria they take into account. As previously mentioned one size does not fit all.



With respect, no there aren’t, and in any event how would one go about building a business based on exceptions?

No creditor wants to have to enforce on the underlying borrower; the first thing you look at is the security. And despite the protestations of people who don’t live in the city, a spectacular €700k property in the middle of nowhere is substantially less attractive to a bank than an ugly and mundane €700k semi-detached in Dublin. It’s all about the liquidity of the market.


----------



## newirishman

cuttothechase said:


> There are lots of people living outside the bigger urban areas that are low risk customers. Avant should look at each case individually and assess the level of risk that's involved. Of course they can lend to whoever they want, but they are certainly limiting their market. An individuals circumstances and situation is more importance than the exact location of their property. That should not be the one and only criteria they take into account. As previously mentioned one size does not fit all.


Spending a lot of time and effort to do a detailed, individual risk assessment for properties or potential customers that are outside your defined, low risk, profiles is exactly what you don’t want todo if your target is to provide low interest rates.
you don’t care about losing out on a small number of potentially solid customers when the hassle of assessing them is too big, and risk is less manageable. You don’t care about creating a huge market share, you want to leave the more hassle business to the competition.
They are in the market to make money not to serve the public.


----------



## WizardDr

I may be losing it but what Variable Rate are Avant offering?  Or what is the variable rate at end of Fixed Rate? Or are they saying another fixed rate at end?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Hi Dr

Here are the variable rates

< 70% LTV : 2.5%
>70% LTV: 2.75%

If you fix for 3 years with Avant, the market will be very different at the end of the three years.
If you fix for 7 years, it will be different again.

Brendan


----------



## WizardDr

Thanks BB   - there is no tracker element this just an LTV rate?

Would the Fixed Rate portion expire exactly on anniversary?


W


----------



## PolkaDot

I made some enquiries about applying to Avant. The broker flagged to me that the sector I work in would probably be viewed as a risky one by Avant (Covid impact). So to prevent me potentially wasting time on an application, the broker put in an initial call to Avant to see if they would consider my application based on my initial details. 

Got a call back from the broker today to indeed confirm that at the moment Avant wouldn't consider me because of the sector I work in. Suggested I come back again in a few months to see if their view has changed. 

Just sharing this as I think it's a clear example of how Avant are probably going to only consider very low risk applicants. I'm in a permanent job with a good salary and no other debt. But simply based on the industry I'm in, they're not willing to consider me just yet. For others thinking of applying, before you go to all the hassle, maybe get the broker to confirm you're not going to be wasting your time.


----------



## Protocol

Thanks.

Now we know they are being careful with location of house and occupation of borrower.

(I'm not complaining about this, it's just good to know)

Whereas the CEO on launch day more or less rejected claims that they would "cherry-pick".


----------



## Brendan Burgess

The Irish Times has a good piece encouraging people to switch to Avant. There isn't anything new in it for contributors to this thread.









						Switching your mortgage could see you keep €200 a month in your wallet
					

Avant Money has brought fresh competition to the Irish lending market




					www.irishtimes.com


----------



## Brendan Burgess

PolkaDot said:


> For others thinking of applying, before you go to all the hassle, maybe get the broker to confirm you're not going to be wasting your time.



It's not just hassle. Many of the brokers charge an application fee.  

I have no problem with Avant cherry picking in country where there is no sanction for people who don't pay their mortgages.  But it would be helpful if they specified what those cherries currently are. 

Brendan


----------



## iamaspinner

Brendan Burgess said:


> Many of the brokers charge an application fee.


MMPI from Donnybrook don't charge any fees.


----------



## WizardDr

The criteria would I understand withstand a nuclear attack or there abouts.


----------



## banjopotato

Not sure if this is standard in the current context (or outside of it), but the Avant loan offer form has the following as a "Special Condition":



> Prior to draw down, the Borrowers must each provide a payslip confirming no negative changes to their employment since the original application was assessed. This payslip must be dated within 4 weeks of the date of draw down.


----------



## PolkaDot

banjopotato said:


> Not sure if this is standard in the current context (or outside of it), but the Avant loan offer form has the following as a "Special Condition":



If you think about it, it's just prudent, good practice and common sense if you're a lender. I was always baffled by the way AIB were so fussy and difficult in originally approving me for a mortgage when I first bought my house (asking for extra paperwork etc etc), yet 6 months after getting approval, when it eventually came to drawing down, they did not look for any confirmation whatsoever that my employment or financial situation had not changed materially. Crazy really. I could have lost my job one week after getting approval yet would still have been able to draw down the mortgage!


----------



## Paul F

Has anybody found out what formula Avant use when calculating the break fee (if you were to switch away from them)?

Unlikely, I realise, that anybody has this detail with them being new to the market.


----------



## iamaspinner

> Compensation shall be calculated in accordance with the following formula:
> 
> C = (A x (F1 -F2) X D)/365
> 
> A = the amount repaid early (or the amount which is changed from the fixed rate to a new rate) averaged from the date of early repayment (or rate of change) to the end of the fixed rate period to allow for scheduled repayments (if there any) and interest charges.
> 
> F1 = the annual percentage interest rate, which was the cost to Avant Money of funding, at the time of origination, for an amount equal to A for the period starting at the date of early repayment to end of the fixed period.
> 
> F2 = the annual percentage interest rate which is the cost to Avant Money of funding an amount equal to A for the period equal to D at the time of the early repayment.
> 
> D= the number of days from the date of early repayment (or rate change) to the end of the fixed period.
> 
> If C is zero or a negative number, no amount is to be paid to Avant Money.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

If Ulster Bank are exiting the Irish market, perhaps they’ll waive break-fees enabling people to move to the likes of Avant?


----------



## WizardDr

er .. a worked example?


----------



## Dinarius

Just spoke with an Avant broker.

We have exactly €100k outstanding over 5 years with AIB.

He said it wouldn't be worth switching this amount because of the fees involved. He said, "I know I'm doing myself out of business in saying that."

He also said that it would be best for us to reduce the term to 3 years, if we can afford to, and leave our mortgage at AIB's variable rate rather than incurring the cost of switching to their fixed rate. Food for thought for those considering Avant with small amounts outstanding. He did add that if we were considering re-mortgaging, to build an extension for example, this would involve legal fees, and switching to Avant would then be worthwhile.

There are honest brokers out there!

D.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Dinarius said:


> We have exactly €100k outstanding over 5 years with AIB.



Hi Dinarius 

Do you mean that there is only 5 years left on your mortgage or that you are in a fixed rate for 5 years?

I assume it's that you have 5 years left and so would agree with the broker that it's not worth switching a "small" mortgage with only a short term to go.

Brendan


----------



## Dinarius

Hi Brendan,

There are exactly five years remaining (November 10, 2025) and the amount is €99,600. We are not fixed with AIB; we're variable.. Rather than switching now, I'm considering reducing the term to 4 years.

Thanks.

D.


----------



## Coldwarrior

Dinarius said:


> I'm considering reducing the term to 4 years


Keep the term the same just make overpayments to the same level as if the term remaining was 4 years.


----------



## Dinarius

Coldwarrior said:


> Keep the term the same just make overpayments to the same level as if the term remaining was 4 years.



Thanks.

Would never have thought of that.

What is the reasoning/logic behind lump sums rather than a reduced term? (I'm clueless, of course!) 

Many thanks.

D.


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Key Post - "Overpaying my mortgage - should I reduce the term or the monthly repayment?"
					

This question comes up in a variety of ways and the threads often go off topic with irrelevant calculations.  The interest charged each year is exactly the same - we will return to this.  Reducing the repayment is simply reducing the payment you are contractually obliged to make under your...



					www.askaboutmoney.com


----------



## Coldwarrior

Dinarius said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Would never have thought of that.
> 
> What is the reasoning/logic behind lump sums rather than a reduced term? (I'm clueless, of course!)
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> D.



Doesn't have to be a lump sum, you can set up a monthly overpayment to match what the payment would be if the term was 4 years. The main benefit is you have the flexibility to stop the overpayment any time and go back to the lower original monthly repayment, which you wouldn't have if you reduce the term. Could be important if someone lost their job etc, it could help prevent them falling into arrears.


----------



## Dinarius

Coldwarrior said:


> Doesn't have to be a lump sum, you can set up a monthly overpayment to match what the payment would be if the term was 4 years. The main benefit is you have the flexibility to stop the overpayment any time and go back to the lower original monthly repayment, which you wouldn't have if you reduce the term. Could be important if someone lost their job etc, it could help prevent them falling into arrears.



Super advice. 

Many thanks!

D.


----------



## Dinarius

Another question on this.......

After the good advice received here back November, we applied for the <50% LTV varialble rate of 2.75% and were put onto it after filing a valuation report. We also increased our repayment slightly so that the mortgage will be cleared in exactly 4 years.

We have just now received our annual statement offering LTV fixed rates of as low as 2.35% (LTV <50% for 3 years), which we would qualify for.

Is it worth fixing for the additional 0.45% interest rate saving? 

(These rates also require a valuation report, but I presume that the one we had done two months ago would cover us.)

Many thanks.

D.


----------



## RedOnion

@Dinarius 
You wouldn't need a new valuation, as yours is so recent. 

Personally, I'd fix, and save 400 in interest.

Have a read of the following thread on how AIB calculate break fees once you fix. Basically, they would have to drop their 2 year rate below 2.35% before they could charge you a break fee.






						Calling AIB customers who fixed before the latest fixed rate cuts in September 2020
					

Any customer currently on their 3 or 5 year fixed rates can break for free, and refix now at the lower rates. This is because of an extra calculation that AIB do looking at their own interest rates, so because they provide 2 & 4 years rates higher than the existing 3 & 5 year rates, they cannot...



					www.askaboutmoney.com


----------



## Padjo2007

Hi all. 

I'm thinking of taking advantage of the Avant mortgage rate of 1.95% and moving from AIB. I've been on to the Avant broker in my area and I meet all the requirements to move. He's saying to me I need to consider the cost of the solicitors fees and how long it would take to redeem that. 

I have €190,000 left on my AIB mortgage at a rate of 2.55% fixed. I've been told by AIB I can break out of my fixed term mortgage at no cost. The mortgage rate with Avant is 1.95%.

I am just wondering could people tell me generally what they were charged for solicitors fees for moving mortgage providers? I see quotes on here of €1500 - €2000. Is that the cheapest I'd get them? 

And finally the broker mentioned that Avant might start paying the solicitors fees from this year to move to them. Has anyone else heard this? 

Thanks 
Paddy


----------



## RedOnion

@Padjo2007 
Yes, around 1500 for legal fees is as cheap as you'll get.  The 'professional fees' is the variable bit and you won't get much lower than 800 + VAT.  Everything else is fixed charges for registrations, searches, etc.

What's your LTV?  Don't discount the idea of moving to KBC if you can get a rate of 2.25% + 3k cashback.  It could work out less overall than moving to Avant.


----------



## Paul F

Padjo2007 said:


> I am just wondering could people tell me generally what they were charged for solicitors fees for moving mortgage providers? I see quotes on here of €1500 - €2000. Is that the cheapest I'd get them?


This thread suggests that you can find solicitors who will do a switch for €1,000 all in. @Padjo2007 If you get quotes, it would be great if you could post them here and in that thread.

As @RedOnion mentioned, the KBC 2.25% rates with €3k cashback would leave you better off than a move to Avant – by about €1,500 over the next three years by my calculations.



Padjo2007 said:


> And finally the broker mentioned that Avant might start paying the solicitors fees from this year to move to them. Has anyone else heard this?


Interesting! If Avant offered €1,500 to cover legal fees, KBC and Avant would be about the same for you over the next three years. But you'll be losing out in the meantime by staying with AIB while you wait for this offer (if it ever materialises).


----------



## RedOnion

Thanks for pointing out that thread @Paul F 
I was surprised to see professional fees as low as 500.


----------



## ArthurMcB

But if you dont plan to switch within the 3 yrs avant is better


----------



## RedOnion

ArthurMcB said:


> But if you dont plan to switch within the 3 yrs avant is better


I'd be a little more specific and say that if you plan to fix for 7 years, then Avant is better.  
If fixing for 3 years, we've no idea which lender will be offering the best rate at the end of that period.


----------



## HollowKnight

Padjo2007 said:


> And finally the broker mentioned that Avant might start paying the solicitors fees from this year to move to them. Has anyone else heard this?


I heard this from a broker recently as well. Same broker also said they'll likely change the amount you can overpay whilst on the fixed rate (currently 1%). They didn't have a timeline for these changes to be implemented.


----------



## ArthurMcB

From q2 avant will allow overpayment of 10%, according to broker.

Does anyone have anything referencing avant contributing to solic fees?


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

I think it's worth thinking about the breakeven period for the costs of switching. If Avant stay sustainably lower than AIB for (say) the next five years then the payback period is longer.


I have zero inside knowledge but I guess they plan to be close to or cheapest on the market for quite a while in order to build market share.


----------



## ArthurMcB

My broker just confirmed that avabt do not and in his opinion wil not be contib to solic fees


----------



## Gordon Gekko

ArthurMcB said:


> My broker just confirmed that avabt do not and in his opinion wil not be contib to solic fees



That’s not really a confirmation then, is it?


----------



## rob oyle

ArthurMcB said:


> From q2 avant will allow overpayment of 10%, according to broker.
> 
> Does anyone have anything referencing avant contributing to solic fees?


This wasn't a North Inner-city Dublin broker by an chance? I heard the same thing this week (re: overpaying) and wondering if it was the same broker.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

A broker told me that lots of borrowers were choosing Avant and then, on hearing about the 1% restriction, were choosing Ulster instead.


----------



## RedOnion

Gordon Gekko said:


> A broker told me that lots of borrowers were choosing Avant and then, on hearing about the 1% restriction, were choosing Ulster instead.


I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## ArthurMcB

Gordon Gekko said:


> That’s not really a confirmation then, is it?


Well it seems that contrary to what others have posted here, Avant dont contrib to solic fees. I wish they did.

Can anyone confirm otherwise?


----------



## flmayo

Are Avant still only doing mortgages in the main cities or have they expanded to the rest of the country?


----------



## RedOnion

ArthurMcB said:


> Well it seems that contrary to what others have posted here, Avant dont contrib to solic fees. I wish they did.
> 
> Can anyone confirm otherwise?


I haven't seen a single suggestion, here or elsewhere, that Avant currently contribute to legal fees.

The suggestion made by a poster was that they may in future.


----------



## blanketyblank

Why is it just Dublin, Cork and Galway?


----------



## RedOnion

DireTrouble1234 said:


> Why is it just Dublin, Cork and Galway?


And Limerick and Waterford.

The areas they cover would include  well in excess of 80% of the outstanding mortgage balances, and new mortgages issued, in the country.


----------



## RedOnion

flmayo said:


> Are Avant still only doing mortgages in the main cities or have they expanded to the rest of the country?


I see a lot of mortgage ads online. I live well outside any of the areas listed by Avant, so I was surprised to see an ad from one of their brokers in my Facebook feed. When I checked out why I was seeing the ad, it included my nearest town in the criteria. Not sure if it's the broker using a headline rate of 1.95%, to then say I don't qualify for that, or if they've widened their geographical criteria.

I don't want a mortgage to find out!


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

RedOnion said:


> The areas they cover would include well in excess of 80% of the outstanding mortgage balances, and new mortgages issued, in the country.



Those five counties are ≈50% of population. Higher house prices for sure, and probably more FTBs in urban areas.

But is new lending by value to the other half of the country by population well below 20%?


----------



## RedOnion

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> But is new lending by value to the other half of the country by population well below 20%?


Yes.

Edit: Didn't mean the short answer!

The 'Dublin' criteria : " Dublin county plus any town within 30km of Dublin county border"
This alone covers 60% of the value of new mortgages issued by most of the banks.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

DireTrouble1234 said:


> Why is it just Dublin, Cork and Galway?



Because urban or near-urban properties are deemed lower risk.

On the basis that there’s more demand for them, the market is more liquid, etc.

Basically, with all other things being equal, a bank would much prefer to lend €300k on a €400k house in Dublin rather than €300k on a €400k house in Leitrim.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

If Avant start allowing bigger overpayments and contributing to legal fees it will be almost the perfect mortgage product. Primarily because its interest rate has a ‘1’ in front of it.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

RedOnion said:


> The 'Dublin' criteria : " Dublin county plus any town within 30km of Dublin county border"


Ah I hadn't seen the criteria set out so precisely. Your 80% number sounds totally right so.




Gordon Gekko said:


> On the basis that there’s more demand for them, the market is more liquid, etc.


I think the Central Bank had some research years ago showing that probability of default was higher in rural areas too.

But I think sometimes too much can be read into the particular madness of 2002 to 2008. There were some crazy lending and borrowing decisions made, but it was quite a short period of time.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Yes, given how difficult it is to get someone out of their home at all, it seems like a potentially crude measure of risk. Especially with remote working, where quite wealthy people might choose to relocate to more rural areas.


----------



## Padjo2007

RedOnion said:


> What's your LTV?


My loan to value is about 52% at the moment. 


RedOnion said:


> KBC


Thanks for this. I never even considered KBC but will look in to them also. 
Thanks for your reply


----------



## Padjo2007

ArthurMcB said:


> Does anyone have anything referencing avant contributing to solic fees?


I have nothing at all bar the conversation with the broker I was chatting to. I know him well and he seemed pretty convinced Avant will be offering to pay for the solicitors fees at some stage this year


----------



## PolkaDot

Padjo2007 said:


> he seemed pretty convinced Avant will be offering to pay for the solicitors fees at some stage this year



Based on what exactly??


----------



## Gordon Gekko

PolkaDot said:


> Based on what exactly??



They probably told him. A lot of the banks/mortgage companies have relationship managers who help the brokers out.


----------



## RedOnion

It'd make perfect sense if they were to cover legal fees for higher value switcher mortgages, similar to Haven having s cutoff of 250k.

Currently, along with Finance Ireland and Dilosk they're the only active lenders that don't offer cashback for switchers. In other words, >98% of switchers get cashback in some form.


----------



## Mocame

According to today's Irish Times Avant are extending the number of locations they will lend in to include Athlone, Carlow, Dundalk, Kilkenny, Wexford and Portlaoise.


----------



## RedOnion

Extended criteria means they cover 71% of all properties in the country.
Increased panel of brokers to 32.
Avant approved 1 in 5 of all switcher mortgages in February.

Here's the link to article:









						Spain's Avant extends Irish reach of cheaper mortgages
					

Athlone, Carlow, Dundalk, Kilkenny, Wexford and Portlaoise to get Avant Money offer




					www.irishtimes.com


----------



## Protocol

I saw a list of brokers dealing with Avant mortgages who don't charge fees to the borrower.

I am searching AAM for that list now.

Does anybody else recall it?


----------



## Paul F

Protocol said:


> I saw a list of brokers dealing with Avant mortgages who don't charge fees to the borrower.
> 
> I am searching AAM for that list now.
> 
> Does anybody else recall it?


Here is a thread with some brokers that apparently don't charge a fee. But check with them yourself.


----------



## HollowKnight

Spoke with a broker today about a switch to Avant (my circumstances have changed a little) and he informed me that Avant do not do any exceptions to the 3.5x multiplier on income. 

I'm not sure I've seen this mentioned on the forums anywhere and thought it a good idea to share.


----------



## Flash The Cash

What is the minimum amount for an avant mortgage? On the application form it says 100,000 but on bonkers.ie for the new "one mortgage" it says minimum loan amount is 25,000? Their website is very low on details and help. I read the press release for the one mortgage on this website askaboutmoney in a different thread, but minimum is not mentioned, however bonkers filter out the older offerings if I put in a loan amount less than 100,000. I am not sure if it's a typo on bonkers website but switcher.ie does not seem to do same rules.


----------



## RedOnion

Flash The Cash said:


> What is the minimum amount for an avant mortgage?


Is this any help?



			https://www.avantmoney.ie/documents/7251793/7255049/Avant+Money+One+Mortgage.pdf/
		



Minimum: 100,000


----------



## Protocol

Does anybody have any experience / recommendations for a broker to use for Avant?


----------



## ThatNewGuy

I've used Vision Financial in Ranelagh for my 3 x mortgage moves and found very good. No association, found them through a friend, but I'll be going back to them to sort out a move to Finance Ireland for me shortly


----------



## nest egg

Wondering has anyone here completed a switch to Avant? Couple of questions if so, can you see your balance online? How easy/difficult is it to make an overpayment?


----------



## Itchy

Applying to Avant at the moment. Broker informs me that Avant will not consider extending the term of the mortgage. Cant seem to verify that on the website, can anyone confirm?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Itchy said:


> Broker informs me that Avant will not consider extending the term of the mortgage.



What do you mean by that? 

The One Mortgage has a much lower rate for a 15 year mortgage than a 30 year mortgage. So you couldn't get a price based on 15 years and then ask for it to be switched to 30 years without paying a higher rate. 

And if are 50, they would probably not give you a 30 year mortgage anyway.

Avant might face a problem if a customer has a 15 year mortgage and gets into trouble.  Then extending the term might be the only way of making the mortgage sustainable, but the  Central Bank does not allow lenders to increase the rate for those in MARP who are cooperating. 

Brendan


----------



## Itchy

Brendan Burgess said:


> What do you mean by that?
> 
> The One Mortgage has a much lower rate for a 15 year mortgage than a 30 year mortgage. So you couldn't get a price based on 15 years and then ask for it to be switched to 30 years without paying a higher rate.
> 
> And if are 50, they would probably not give you a 30 year mortgage anyway.
> 
> Avant might face a problem if a customer has a 15 year mortgage and gets into trouble.  Then extending the term might be the only way of making the mortgage sustainable, but the  Central Bank does not allow lenders to increase the rate for those in MARP who are cooperating.
> 
> Brendan


The term remaining with my current lender is X. I want to extend X to 30 (I'm a spring chicken). The broker informs me that the maximum term that Avant will allow me to pay off the mortgage over is X.

Which seems like an arbitrary (ridiculous) position to me.


----------



## PebbleBeach2020

Itchy said:


> The term remaining with my current lender is X. I want to extend X to 30 (I'm a spring chicken). The broker informs me that the maximum term that Avant will allow me to pay off the mortgage over is X.
> 
> Which seems like an arbitrary (ridiculous) position to me.


I've done a few switches and always the term stayed the same or reduced. It was never extended.


----------



## Itchy

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> I've done a few switches and always the term stayed the same or reduced. It was never extended.



Did you request to extend the term at any point?


----------



## RedOnion

Itchy said:


> Which seems like an arbitrary (ridiculous) position to me.


It's a strange stance, especially as they allow equity release in some cases.


----------



## Itchy

RedOnion said:


> It's a strange stance, especially as they allow equity release in some cases.



Now I got it from the broker rather than the horses mouth so to speak. So I’d just like to verify it.


----------



## skrooge

I





Itchy said:


> The term remaining with my current lender is X. I want to extend X to 30 (I'm a spring chicken). The broker informs me that the maximum term that Avant will allow me to pay off the mortgage over is X.
> 
> Which seems like an arbitrary (ridiculous) position to me.



Not to suggest your spring isn't as sprung as others but I would imagine your original term was in line with your previous providers lending policies. It's not crazy to assume lending standards are similar across lenders. 

Would 30 years take you over 65/68?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Hi Itchy 

Ask your existing lender to extend the term to 30 years.  Then switch to Avant.

But make sure that by doing so, it does not damage your credit record.

Brendan


----------



## Itchy

skrooge said:


> Would 30 years take you over 65/68?


As it happens, no. Even though Avant mortgage until age 70. In any case, its not like they are taking that into consideration as I cant even apply to do it in the first place! 



Brendan Burgess said:


> Ask your existing lender to extend the term to 30 years.  Then switch to Avant.
> 
> But make sure that by doing so, it does not damage your credit record.



Grief!


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## Brendan Burgess

Hi Itchy 

Most people switching do so for the same term or for a reduced term. 

So Avant or any other lender would would want to know why you want to increase the term to 30 years.  If you wanted to increase it and it was a sign of financial stress, then they would not give you the loan over any term. 

Why do you want to extend the term? 

Brendan


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## Coldwarrior

Anyone know if Avant are still not doing any LTI exemptions?


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## Brendan Burgess

I doubt that they will ever do LTI exemptions.

They have low rates because they have a simple business model and conservative lending.

Brendan


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## HollowKnight

Coldwarrior said:


> Anyone know if Avant are still not doing any LTI exemptions?


I was told a month ago by an Avant broke that they do not do any LTI exemptions.


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## odyssey06

Anyone know if Avant do mortgage protection waivers?


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## Coldwarrior

HollowKnight said:


> I was told a month ago by an Avant broke that they do not do any LTI exemptions.


Thanks, I was told the same at the start of the year, was wondering was that still the policy.


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## Gordon Gekko

odyssey06 said:


> Anyone know if Avant do mortgage protection waivers?


I doubt it.

Avant’s model is lower rates for low risk plain vanilla business.

It’s analagous to asking Ryanair for some flexibility.

Avant lend in cities to solid borrowers at Central Bank compliant LTVs and LTIs with no scope to top-up or release equity.


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## Itchy

Brendan Burgess said:


> So Avant or any other lender would would want to know why you want to increase the term to 30 years.  If you wanted to increase it and it was a sign of financial stress, then they would not give you the loan over any term.
> 
> Why do you want to extend the term?



Well the point is they don't want to know. As they/the broker wont even consider it! (I asked them to double check so ill see what comes back).

Its not a major problem for me, the plan is to maximise AVCs now that the LTV is <60%. I might even invest some outside of my pension fund if I'm feeling fruity! LTV would be low, well covered by LTI and stressed payments shouldn't be an issue. Not sure what circumstances could be considered 'stress'.


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## Brendan Burgess

Why do you want to extend the term? 

It's possible that they have found that people extending the term tended to get into difficulties.

Brendan


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## Itchy

To invest.


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## Gordon Gekko

I can see why Avant don’t facilitate term extensions. They’re all about minimising their risk and that increases their risk.


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## Itchy

If that was the strategy they would conduct thorough underwriting



Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Itchy
> 
> Ask your existing lender to extend the term to 30 years.  Then switch to Avant.
> 
> But make sure that by doing so, it does not damage your credit record.
> 
> Brendan


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