# Ministerial and TD expenses



## Marion (14 Oct 2010)

*This was originally posted by allthedoyles*

Such a cheeky suggestion - why not start by cutting these expense ?

From 2005 to 2008, €97,637,195.65 was paid out to TDs in salaries and expenses. 
The top 30 for the period are 
Rory O’Hanlon -  € 789,543.77
Michael Moynihan -  € 726,873.65
Bernard Allen  - € 725,636.56
Noel O’Flynn  - € 723,782.51
Sean Fleming  - € 722,561.57
Johnny Brady  - € 720,676.88
Jackie Healy-Rae  - € 719,350.52
Dan Neville  - € 712,660.55
Brendan Howlin  - € 709,654.03
John Cregan  - € 704,570.69
Padraic McCormack  - € 699,120.51
Ned O’Keeffe  - € 695,606.45
Dinny McGinley  - € 692,391.64
Seymour Crawford  - € 692,011.42
John Perry  - € 691,415.49
Michael Lowry  - € 690,947.20
Tom Hayes  - € 690,436.23
Peter Kelly  - € 684,358.22
Paul Kehoe  - € 680,046.39
Michael Ring  - € 679,042.87
Enda Kenny  - € 676,745.95
John O’Donoghue  - € 675,828.78
Phil Hogan  - € 672,263.48
Niall Blaney -  € 671,759.13
Pat Breen  - € 669,201.01
Jim O’Keeffe  - € 668,538.10
Michael Finneran  - € 665,965.04
John Moloney  - € 663,295.21
Beverley Flynn  - € 661,031.29
John Deasy  - € 659,961.01


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## Marion (14 Oct 2010)

I agree completely.

These expenses are obscene.

Marion


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## Leper (14 Oct 2010)

These guys are not going to cut their expenses.  This is only the tip of the iceberg in their earnings by the way.

But, they will continuously tell us to tighten our belts etc.  Even wondered why people voted for them or why they were carried shoulder high by their hacks after being elected?


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## z104 (14 Oct 2010)

What are they buying with this money?


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## dereko1969 (14 Oct 2010)

Interestingly 3 of the top 5 least contributors to the Dail feature well up that list. Tom McEllistrom, Jackie Healy-Rae and Michael Lowry have done virtually nothing in the Dail in the last 12 months, see tribune story here


http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/oct/10/not-much-use-in-the-dail-these-days-but-he-does-ha/


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## ashambles (14 Oct 2010)

> No. 3 Bernard Allen  - € 725,636.56


Is this the same fat cat TD who sits looking permanently surprised and indignant as chairman of the PAC when he hears of overspending in FAS, the HSE etc..

While wary of quoting the bible, it's hard to argue with this one


> Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?


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## Staples (14 Oct 2010)

Leper said:


> This is only the tip of the iceberg in their earnings by the way.


 
According to the original OP, these amounts represent salary and expenses for a four year period.

If this is the "tip of the iceberg", can you explain what other income they have?


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## csirl (14 Oct 2010)

Staples said:


> According to the original OP, these amounts represent salary and expenses for a four year period.
> 
> If this is the "tip of the iceberg", can you explain what other income they have?


 
TDs salary plus additional payments for serving on various oireachtas committees.


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## TarfHead (14 Oct 2010)

Marion said:


> Rory O’Hanlon - € 789,543.77


 
He was Ceann Comhairle 'til 2007, now retired. I wonder does having been CC add to his TD & Ministerial pensions ?



Marion said:


> Beverley Flynn - € 661,031.29


 
A '_class act_', to quote her father 



Marion said:


> John O’Donoghue - € 675,828.78
> John Deasy - € 659,961.01


 
These two have been on permanent sulk in the Dail since being given the boot as CC and front-bench spokesman, respectively.


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## Purple (14 Oct 2010)

It would be interesting to see what their expenses are after their salaries. Without that it doesn't mean much.
It should also be noted that ministers have very low expenses (or should have) as their travel etc is covered by their department.

Why not start with a 20% pay cut for all and an end to un-vouched expenses?


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## z107 (14 Oct 2010)

> Why not start with a 20% pay cut for all and an end to un-vouched expenses?


I would go further and say average industrial wage and, of course, end to this crazy 'expenses' carry on (or 'legalised theft' as I prefer to call it)

This would ensure a higher calibre of political candidate, as being a TD should be more like a vocation, rather than a means to personal gain.


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## csirl (14 Oct 2010)

Being a TD is only a part time job - i.e. 3 days a week, for c.25 weeks a year, so it should be paid as such.


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## RMCF (14 Oct 2010)

As I mentioned in another thread, Tds are probably given expenses for things other workers just have to pay for themselves. 

As an example, I am guessing food. I bet they get allowances for meals. Yet I have to buy my own dinner. With their wages, could they not?


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## Purple (14 Oct 2010)

I don’t think cutting TD’s wages to the average industrial wage would provide a better candidate, it would just mean that politics would become the preserve of the independently wealthy (just as it was in the UK ‘till quite recently). As long as we have the electoral system we have we will get bad TD’s. As long as we have no separation between the legislative and executive we will have bad governments. The whole system needs to change.


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## pixiebean22 (14 Oct 2010)

dereko1969 said:


> Interestingly 3 of the top 5 least contributors to the Dail feature well up that list. Tom McEllistrom, Jackie Healy-Rae and Michael Lowry have done virtually nothing in the Dail in the last 12 months, see tribune story here
> 
> 
> http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/oct/10/not-much-use-in-the-dail-these-days-but-he-does-ha/


 
I was going to make that same comment about healy-rae.

Cannot believe this money, I know that probably sounds ridiculously naive, but I really can't!


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## z107 (14 Oct 2010)

> it would just mean that politics would become the preserve of the independently wealthy (just as it was in the UK ‘till quite recently).


Do you not need bucket loads of money at the moment to run a successful election campaign?


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## Purple (15 Oct 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Do you not need bucket loads of money at the moment to run a successful election campaign?



Yes, but how would cutting their pay to the average industrial wage solve that problem?


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## Complainer (15 Oct 2010)

csirl said:


> Being a TD is only a part time job - i.e. 3 days a week, for c.25 weeks a year, so it should be paid as such.


Your naievite is touching.


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## Sunny (15 Oct 2010)

TD's deserve to be well paid. What they don't deserve are the ridiculous expenses. Why should my TD's in Dublin North get paid travel expenses to go into the Dail? The State offers a very good subsidised travel plan through the tax saver scheme. Join me on the train at 6.30 in the morning. Use that or drive into work like everyone else.

That's just one example.


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## z107 (20 Feb 2011)

> Yes, but how would cutting their pay to the average industrial wage solve that problem?


There are two major problems with Irish 'democracy'. The first is that it costs bucket loads of money to run for election. This means that politics is the preserve of the independently wealthy.

The second problem is that such huge wages, pensions, perks, unvouched expenses etc, will, and does, attract the wrong calibre of candidate. Politics should be about the good of the country, not the enrichment of politicians and their cronies.

This is another policy that Sinn Fein seem to have got right.


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## Purple (20 Feb 2011)

While we don't want self serving scumbags in office a bunch of wide eyed idealists wouldn't be any better.


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## z107 (20 Feb 2011)

I didn't say that that was the only problem with Irish 'democracy'. It would, however, be a step in the right direction. People in government, at least for the right reasons.


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## Complainer (20 Feb 2011)

Sunny said:


> Why should my TD's in Dublin North get paid travel expenses to go into the Dail? The State offers a very good subsidised travel plan through the tax saver scheme. Join me on the train at 6.30 in the morning. Use that or drive into work like everyone else.


Hear, hear.



umop3p!sdn said:


> There are two major problems with Irish 'democracy'. The first is that it costs bucket loads of money to run for election. This means that politics is the preserve of the independently wealthy.
> 
> The second problem is that such huge wages, pensions, perks, unvouched expenses etc, will, and does, attract the wrong calibre of candidate. Politics should be about the good of the country, not the enrichment of politicians and their cronies.


Your first point is not true. It costs €500 to run for election, assuming you are not a member of a party. Everything else is up to you. Many of those currently working their asses off to run campaigns are far from 'independently wealthy'. They have been fundraising for the past few years, and are tapping into their network for manpower and support. Sure, it is easy for somebody like Shane Ross to buy 6,000 posters and pay somebody to put them up for him. But to be honest, his media coverage is doing more for his campaign than his extensive funds.

Your second point contradicts your first. If the rewards are not there, TD posts will be the preserve of the wealthy, as only the wealthy will choose public service over other careers that offer greater rewards.


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## z107 (21 Feb 2011)

> Your first point is not true. It costs €500 to run for election, assuming you are not a member of a party. Everything else is up to you. Many of those currently working their asses off to run campaigns are far from 'independently wealthy'. They have been fundraising for the past few years, and are tapping into their network for manpower and support. Sure, it is easy for somebody like Shane Ross to buy 6,000 posters and pay somebody to put them up for him. But to be honest, his media coverage is doing more for his campaign than his extensive funds.


Is the €500 to cost of the deposit?
I'll modify what I said. It costs bucket loads of money to run for election _ and have a reasonable chance of actually being elected_



> Your second point contradicts your first. If the rewards are not there, TD posts will be the preserve of the wealthy, as only the wealthy will choose public service over other careers that offer greater rewards.


I can't see how it does.
Many people choose careers and vocations on criteria other than money. I can't imagine priests, for example, are hugely well paid.
I, myself, could be on much more money, but I'd have to live in Dublin and do 9 to 5 and all that malarkey.


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