# Legalities of Garda "stop and search"



## DaveD (12 May 2011)

In light of the upcoming visits of the British Royalty and US President the Irish Times has an article on security measure to be put in place, [broken link removed]

A paragraph states:

"Officers on foot will stop and search people and those questioned will be asked to indicate their destination. Checkpoints will also be set up and motorists will be questioned. Road users will also be asked to explain the purpose of their journey."

We were discussing such issues yesterday among friends and none of us knew if Gardai were actually allowed to stop and search any member of the public without good reason to suspect them of some crime or intention to commit one. Can anybody clarify what the legalities of such a situation are? 

Can a member the Gardai stop any person in a public place and search them and is such a person obliged to cooperate or provide identification?

Does the Garda have to inform the person of the piece of legislation under which they wish to search them?


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## tallpaul (12 May 2011)

As the phrase goes: if you've done nothing wrong, then you've nothing to fear...


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## DaveD (12 May 2011)

Thats not my point at all tallpaul, neither I or any of my friends would have any reason for concern about being stopped other than the "civil liberties" aspect of it. Some would object to being stopped and searched, mostly the being searched part, without any good reason, specific to the person stopped. The short answer of course is if you're not keen on being stopped and searched then stay away from areas of town where its a possibility, but thats not practical for people who work in Dublin city centre for example. 

A colleague was adamant that unless the Gardai have a valid reason to stop a specific person and search them then they cannot do so, others disagreed.


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## demoivre (12 May 2011)

DaveD said:


> A colleague was adamant that unless the Gardai have a valid reason to stop a specific person and search them then they cannot do so, others disagreed.



Powers of Search.


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## Golfer999999 (12 May 2011)

The text on citizensinfo would seem to bear out that random searching is not legal...

"A garda can search you, without your consent, if the garda has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence. This includes people under the age of 18. The Garda should tell you why you are being searched."

The Garda must have reasonable suspicion that the individual has committed an offence. I suppose the question then becomes can it be said that a refusal to consent to a search by a person on civil liberty grounds de facto creates a reasonable suspicion?


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## Hoagy (12 May 2011)

[broken link removed]is worth a read to refresh our memories about citizens' rights.


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## Golfer999999 (12 May 2011)

Just noticed the garda website has changed this to searches at specific points in the city rather than just random stop and search...


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## RonanC (12 May 2011)

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled on this already, although in relation to another country - Our good neighbours, England. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/12/stop-and-search-ruled-illegal



> The European judges said the power to search a person's clothing and  belongings in public included an element of humiliation and  embarrassment which was a clear interference with the right to privacy



The Gardai have no rights whatsoever to stop and search anyone unless they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence.


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## RonanC (12 May 2011)

However, the Criminal Justice Act 1994 says, 



> *21.*—(1) If it  appears to a member of the Garda Síochána not below the rank of  superintendent that it is necessary in the interests of safety or for  the purpose of preserving order to restrict the access of persons to a  place where an event is taking or is about to take place which attracts,  or is likely to attract, a large assembly of persons (in this Part  referred to as the “event”), he may authorise any member of  the Garda Síochána to erect or cause to be erected a barrier or a series  of barriers on any road, street, lane, alley or other means of access  to such a place in a position not more than one mile therefrom for the  purpose of regulating the access of persons or vehicles thereto.





> *22.*—(1) Where in relation to an event—the member may exercise any one or more of the following powers—(I) search or cause to be searched that person  or any vehicle in or on which he may be in order to ascertain whether he  has with him any such liquor, container or other article,




*
*


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## callybags (12 May 2011)

Thousands of people are stopped and searched in public every day of the week in our airports, and very few appear to have a problem with it.

Why the fuss now?


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## PaddyBloggit (12 May 2011)

I reckon it's because you choose to walk into an airport and you know that procedures are there.

Walking along the street minding your own business and being stopped and searched because somebody decides they can search you is a different kettle of fish.


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## niceoneted (12 May 2011)

Diito to the last comment.


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## starlite68 (26 May 2011)

tallpaul said:


> As the phrase goes: if you've done nothing wrong, then you've nothing to fear...


 you could fear loseing your civel liberties for a start!


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## UptheDeise (11 Sep 2011)

RonanC said:


> The Gardai have no rights whatsoever to stop and search anyone unless they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence.


 
Ok, I know this thread is a few months old but here goes... could you define_ reasonable suspicion?_


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## RonanC (12 Sep 2011)

UptheDeise said:


> Ok, I know this thread is a few months old but here goes... could you define_ reasonable suspicion?_



Im not a legal expert or a member of the Gardai but I did a bit of research into this at the time, as I was affected by the road closures and on the spot checks by the Gardai. 



> *When can a Garda search me?*
> If a Garda has a reasonable suspicion that
> you have committed an offence, he or she
> has various powers that allow him or her
> ...


 _taken from [broken link removed]_

and section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0013/sec0030.html#zza13y1939s30

and 



> *Reasonable Cause
> *At common law an arrest could take place on the basis of a reasonable suspicion on the part of the arresting Garda that a person had committed a felony. There are other powers of arrest which allow an arrest to take place on the basis of “reasonable cause” or as in traffic offences when a Garda is “of opinion” that a particular state of affairs exists.  Indeed, most arrests now occur under the provisions of Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act, 1997 on the basis that the arresting Garda has reasonable cause to believe a person to be guilty of an offence.
> 
> Reasonable suspicion/cause therefore is a lower standard than a prima facie case. Reasonable suspicion can take account of matters which are not admissible in evidence such as hearsay.  However, “mere suspicion” would not be sufficient.
> ...


_
taken from_ www.icba.ie/podcasts/shownotes/icba_podcast001_shownotes.doc


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## UptheDeise (12 Sep 2011)

Thanks for the post RonanC. Interesting links there.


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## adyc18 (10 Jul 2012)

Hi
Im a young man under the age of 20 and for the past 4 to 5 years I have been searched for no apparent reason. I don't do drugs and I don't drink on the streets or cause any trouble yet it seems if I am to walk in town or walk around my area I always seem to be stopped and searched and for no apparent reason. I have said this to some of the Gardai that have stopped me and they just laughed and said that it is within their rights to search me. I find this very demoralising and embarrassing to be just stopped on a street and searched. in one instance the guard actually got out of a car and ran after me while i was walking down the road. is their anything i could do about this as it is really making me angry ?


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## McCrack (14 Jul 2012)

I would advise if it happens again take note of the details, day/location/shoulder number (or if not in uniform ask for name and station)

Be clear that you are not consenting to being searched and if they want to go ahead and search ask on what grounds (in other words ask why are you being searched). You are entitled to know the reason for being searched.

Then contact a litigation solicitor for advice.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2012)

adyc18 said:


> Hi
> Im a young man under the age of 20 and for the past 4 to 5 years I have been searched for no apparent reason. I don't do drugs and I don't drink on the streets or cause any trouble yet it seems if I am to walk in town or walk around my area I always seem to be stopped and searched and for no apparent reason. I have said this to some of the Gardai that have stopped me and they just laughed and said that it is within their rights to search me. I find this very demoralising and embarrassing to be just stopped on a street and searched. in one instance the guard actually got out of a car and ran after me while i was walking down the road. is their anything i could do about this as it is really making me angry ?



Make sure you get the name and badge number of the Gardai that search you. Also note the time and location. Keep an account of each incident so that you have proof of what's happening.


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