# Any issues with Trellis or fencing extension on top of garden wall ?



## bullworth (29 Aug 2011)

Theres a corner of my back garden which is overlooked. I have been considering if it is possible to remedy this. I would need to raise the height of the wall by about a metre around a corner of the garden


Are there any issues with planning permission I should be aware of ? Raising it by 2 metres would not impact upon the lighting etc of my neighbours in any way and might in fact improve their security as well as my own but close to  a metre would be ideal.
I was considering perhaps drilling into the brick back yard wall and placing wooden batons onto it  and then fixing wooden fencing panels onto the batons. Can anyone provide advice concerning DIY pitfalls/legal issues etc ?  Are wooden batons/fencing panels a good idea in a damp climate such as Irelands particularly as I would be unable to paint or varnish them on the neighbours side without some difficulty but perhaps they could be unscrewed for this ? Also batons might take up extra space on my side of the wall. Are there any other options ?  Can someone recommend the type of panels I should get or help me consider what my choices are?


----------



## hastalavista (30 Aug 2011)

yes there are issues
read this thread and read the links re planning: the 2m rule applies and depending on yor LA can be sticky
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=159649


----------



## Staples (30 Aug 2011)

Why would putting a trellis on the inside of existing boundary be so objectionable?  

Particularly when the alternative would be planting a bush or tree that would grow significantly higher?


----------



## bullworth (30 Aug 2011)

hastalavista said:


> yes there are issues
> read this thread and read the links re planning: the 2m rule applies and depending on yor LA can be sticky
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=159649



Thanks. 2 metres would be the absolute maximum I would consider anyway. I would probably go for one metre so would be ok ?


----------



## hastalavista (31 Aug 2011)

bullworth said:


> Thanks. 2 metres would be the absolute maximum I would consider anyway. I would probably go for one metre so would be ok ?



Not 100% clear on what you mean here. the 2m max is from the ground level on the lower of the 2 sides of the wall if ground level is not the same on both sides.


----------



## bullworth (31 Aug 2011)

hastalavista said:


> Not 100% clear on what you mean here. the 2m max is from the ground level on the lower of the 2 sides of the wall if ground level is not the same on both sides.



Ah apologies for any confusion. My intention is to increase the privacy by 1 metre. The wall is already roughly 6 foot high but extremely strong being built of wide concrete blocks which are laid down flat so the wall is thick enough to walk along and not narrow.


----------



## Leo (31 Aug 2011)

Given that it is already ~1.82m, you cannot extend it by another metre without planning permission. 
Leo


----------



## bullworth (31 Aug 2011)

Leo said:


> Given that it is already ~1.82m, you cannot extend it by another metre without planning permission.
> Leo



Is this a costly process for something none of my neighbours would object to ?


----------



## browtal (31 Aug 2011)

We had a similar problem and the planning officer suggested that we build a separate wall inside the existing one to the required height.
He said that the reason could be given that we needed the extra height to grow specialised plants.
We compromised and built two pillars, at the strategic spot,inside the wall, put a lintel across, and built a few courses of blocks on top.
That solved the problem, we now have wall covering plants on the wall and all looks well and we have the desired privacy.
Browtal


----------



## Alias (2 Sep 2011)

To piggy back on this, if my neighbour has added brick to part of his back garden wall to extend the height above 2 metres, should that be discretely reported to the council? It doesn't really affect me, but at the same time it's somehow irritating...


----------



## bullworth (2 Sep 2011)

Alias said:


> To piggy back on this, if my neighbour has added brick to part of his back garden wall to extend the height above 2 metres, should that be discretely reported to the council? It doesn't really affect me, but at the same time it's somehow irritating...



why does it irritate you ? In my case the trellis would be 100 metres from my neighbours windows or doors, would not impact upon the light or view they receive, would hinder burglars and would actually give them more privacy as I would be unable to peer into their bedroom window once it went up.


----------



## hastalavista (3 Sep 2011)

browtal said:


> We had a similar problem and the planning officer suggested that we build a separate wall inside the existing one to the required height.
> He said that the reason could be given that we needed the extra height to grow specialised plants.
> We compromised and built two pillars, at the strategic spot,inside the wall, put a lintel across, and built a few courses of blocks on top.
> That solved the problem, we now have wall covering plants on the wall and all looks well and we have the desired privacy.
> Browtal



Did the top of the wall end up being more than 2m in height.?


----------



## browtal (4 Sep 2011)

No the new height is 2m now. The neighbour incidently had built his house 20 feet nearer our boundary wall than his planning permission allowed, we were not aware of this at the time. 
When we commenced building, the neighbour, a town councillor, threatened to knock our new wall. For peace sake we built below the 2m and thought that he would quickly see that he was also being overlooked. It did not seem to bother them but for us it was not nice. In time we topped the wall but he knocked it down. 
The real problem was that the neighbours had been used to the facility of our site offering a view which he was now going to lose. He should have considered buying our site.
You know what my view of local representatives is??? Life is too short to challenge everything.


----------



## Alias (5 Sep 2011)

bullworth said:


> why does it irritate you ? In my case the trellis would be 100 metres from my neighbours windows or doors, would not impact upon the light or view they receive, would hinder burglars and would actually give them more privacy as I would be unable to peer into their bedroom window once it went up.



It doesn't affect my sunlight, as he is on my north side, however the wall is right outside my back door, and when I look out from one side all I see is concrete bricks.  It's ugly and irritating.  It's been less than a year since they built on it, but I've only now with this thread realised that it's probably much higher than the 2m rule.

ETA Originally they had bamboo screening attached to the wall, and I didn't mind that at all.  It's the concrete brick that bothers me.


----------



## onq (6 Sep 2011)

Alias said:


> It doesn't affect my sunlight, as he is on my north side, however the wall is right outside my back door, and when I look out from one side all I see is concrete bricks.  It's ugly and irritating.  It's been less than a year since they built on it, but I've only now with this thread realised that it's probably much higher than the 2m rule.
> 
> ETA Originally they had bamboo screening attached to the wall, and I didn't mind that at all.  It's the concrete brick that bothers me.



Hi Alias,

If the wall is higher than 2.0M and they don't have permission you can report it.

I don't know how you expect to do this discreetly though, or why.
They'd have to be pretty clueless not to guess its you. 

They are the ones who seem to have broken the law.
You're only asserting your rights, why hide that fact.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the        matters    at      hand.


----------



## onq (6 Sep 2011)

Staples said:


> Why would putting a trellis on the inside of existing boundary be so objectionable?
> 
> Particularly when the alternative would be planting a bush or tree that would grow significantly higher?



Your point is well made, but the law as currently worded addresses walling and fencing, not planting.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the        matters    at      hand.


----------



## onq (6 Sep 2011)

bullworth said:


> Is this a costly process for something none of my neighbours would object to ?



Hi Bullworth,

You initiated the thread to seek advice and you've been given accurate advice by hastalavista and others.
If you want to erect fencing or wall covered by statute higher than 2.0M you need planning permission.
Alternatively, if you want to plant semi-matures you may do so without planning permission. 

The cost of -

- making one planning permission
- assuming detailed drawings of the houses are not required by the planning officer
- including taking one meeting with the neighbours to smooth the way forward
- excluding printing and public notices

- could be do-able for between €500 to €1,000.

You should also retain the services of an engineer to check the existing walling is sound - many an older wall looks the part but isn't.
Even where the existing wall is sound, the additional wind loading may require buttresses on both sides with new foundations.

Don't skimp on the meeting with the neighbour as this is a boundary wall/party wall matter.
 Chapter Three of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 refers.
[broken link removed] with the text.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                 as a defence or support - in and of itself - should  legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                 Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the         matters    at      hand.


----------



## bullworth (8 Sep 2011)

Thanks ONQ. Would it not be possible to cut corners in your steps above ? An engineer is not necessary as the wall is apart from being less than 10 years old; is also built of solid blocks double the normal width over a foot thick with a damp proof course along the bottom of the walls so its extremely well made. Many concrete sheds carrying higher loads would have thinner walls. What are the fixed costs of submitting a planning permission application ? Can I not just get some generic form with a smaller ( I would hope) fee from the planning department and write in for example ''application to raise wall by 1 metre by application of half inch plywood to inner part of wall '' ? 
Is a planning application to raise the wall with bricks any more costly than one to raise it via a trellis ?


----------



## onq (8 Sep 2011)

bullworth said:


> Thanks ONQ. Would it not be possible to cut corners in your steps above ?


Of course you can cut corners - even if you do all I have suggested, there is a chance things can go wrong but following my advice would lessens the chance of failure significantly.


> An engineer is not necessary as the wall is apart from being less than 10 years old; is also built of solid blocks double the normal width over a foot thick with a damp proof course along the bottom of the walls so its extremely well made. Many concrete sheds carrying higher loads would have thinner walls.


I myself, with twenty one years post qualification behind me, could not say this without further investigation. As an example, your comments do not assess the wind loading, foundation design, buttressing or the height : width ratio. Your comments only touche on rising damp / damp proof courses (Walls can slide on damp proof courses if side loaded). A significant risk to the wall is water ingress from above not properly shed, penetrating the wall, freezing and degrading the mortar joints and masonry. You comments don't address this or the structural degradation that can occur inside old garden walls. A layperson's appreciation of building work is limited to what he experiences and can see. Very few have ever even seen remedial work to building or masonry or know the need for it.


> What are the fixed costs of submitting a planning permission application ?


Don't know - that's why I suggested a range. If this is a protected structure you may need to survey the whole site if you have a difficult planning officer.


> Can I not just get some generic form with a smaller ( I would hope) fee from the planning department and write in for example ''application to raise wall by 1 metre by application of half inch plywood to inner part of wall '' ?


No, not as far as I am aware.


> Is a planning application to raise the wall with bricks any more costly than one to raise it via a trellis ?


No, not as far as I am aware.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                  as a defence or support - in and of itself - should   legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                  Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on  the         matters    at      hand.


----------



## Nontaburi (17 Sep 2013)

*Issues with Trellis or fencing extension on top of garden wall.*

*Dear Bullworth,*
*I happened upon your posting in August  2011 regarding issues with trellis extension and increasing the height of rear garden boundary wall.*
*As I am going through a similar dilemma I would be interested to hear from you in regard to the eventual outcome.*
*The choices open to me are 1. Apply for retention or 2. Remove and plant mature trees.*
*I too secured 4’’ x 1.5’’ horizontal parallel batons to my 2mtr concrete wall (one side only, the overlooked side) and then firmly secured boards (domed lolly pob type) the length of wall. This has increased the effective height to 9ft 6in.*
*Of course should permission to retain be denied I feel option 2 would be the better choice in the first instance.*
*I would welcome hearing from you.*
*Kind regards, Nontaburi.*

29-08-2011, 10:56 PM


----------



## sulo (9 Apr 2016)

I had hoped to add additional trellis / fence as my neighbour has extended their decking. It's a nightmare. Last year I swore I wasn't spending another summer with them head and shoulders over the wall.  It's unfortunate that there is no planning required on decking as my privacy is totally compromised. They can see into my kitchen from standing. When they have guests they peer in. In summer if  I'm sitting / lying / hanging out washing in garden they can see me and can engage where I don't want too.  They were hanging something on their side of  wall. And from standing I had them both overlooking me while I was in the garden. I'm so annoyed that it could cost ME to restore my privacy to what it was.


----------



## Leo (11 Apr 2016)

You can go as high as 2m to the rear without the need to seek planning permission.


----------



## Drakon (16 May 2016)

My understanding is that the limit is a maximum of two metres to both sides and to the rear.
The reason has nothing to do with light/privacy/etc. It's to permit access in the case of an emergency should standard access not be an option.
For example, if there was a house fire the fire brigade may need to access your burning house via your neighbours garden and yours. Hence the height limit and the ban on broken glass,  punji sticks, etc. on top of walls.


----------

