# Life Cover and smokers



## gobananas (4 May 2006)

It seems to Insurance companies that to be a non-smoker you have to have not smoked in 12 months (or have any intention of smoking in the next 12 months).

As an ex-smoker (and a light smoker at that) and someone who still has a very occassional cigarette (like maybe one a month) this seems to be a very harsh black or white calssification. If you say no, by their standards you'd be lying but if you say yes your premiums will be uncessarily high. 

In the event of being required to take a medical can they catch you out?
Just wondering has anyone else been faced with this 'moral' dilemma?


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## ClubMan (4 May 2006)

Lying on any insurance policy is a sure way to render it null and void. If you don't like the rules then either forego cover or wait until you have kicked the habit for a clear 12 months.


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## Carpenter (4 May 2006)

When I needed mortgage protection some years back I had only kicked the habit for 4 months and I lied (saying I had not consumed tobacco products in the past 12 months) to get a lower premium.  However I did so in the knowledge that a) if "found out" it was my own fault and b) I had no intention of smoking again, not even 1.  The question you must ask yourself is simply this: "Am I a smoker- yes or no?".  If you concede that you intend to smoke even just one cigarette a month you are of course a smoker and must declare this as it is a material fact.  Of course I acknowlege that I was somewhat dishonest in the past but as a confirmed non smoker I have problems with this now.


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## deem (4 May 2006)

i'm sure there is some test they can do to test nicotine or tar levels .  I know while in UK they used in clinics where people trying to give up.  but i think it was only a short term thing, ie couldnt tell perhaps if had a cig a month ago, but could if 48 hours ago.


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## gobananas (4 May 2006)

They can probably just find out by listening to your chest with a stethoscope come to think of it...


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## orka (4 May 2006)

There is a test they can do at a medical (think it's called a cotinine test) which shows if you are a smoker - not sure how long after last cigarette it can detect it though.  Agree with carpenter that even one cigarette a month makes you a smoker - you say it's an unecessarily harsh black and white question but where would you draw the line? - 1 a month? 2 a month? 1 a week? 1 a day but I feel fine and I'm sure it's not doing any harm?


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## gobananas (4 May 2006)

I wouldn't draw one line, I would draw several. Have you quit (a) 1 year ago (b) 6 months ago etc. Fair enough if you smoke you smoke but there are also degrees of smoking and hence degrees of risk, policies don't seem to take this into consideration. It's one rate for all smokers regardless of whether they smoke 200 a day or 1 every 200 days.


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## ClubMan (4 May 2006)

Presumably the actuarial decision on this matter was that a one year cut-off point was a good balance between risk assessment and administrative costs. If they were to drill down to the minutiae of every question and lifestyle/health issue then the application form could feasinly be 100 pages long and cost tens of € just to process.


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## CathyK (8 May 2006)

just remember that non-disclosure is one of the main reasons that claims are not met, so please consider this when you complete the application form.

If you were not a smoker for 12 months you can contact the insurance company and see if they will apply non smoking rates at this time, hence reducing the rates, or you can get another policy to replace this one.

Please be very careful when filling out the application to "tell the truth and nothing but the truth"


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## gramlab (9 May 2006)

Declared myself as a smoker on our policy for our new house a few years ago. Changed companies last year and found out that the broker had made a mess of the forms and i wasn't down as a smoker at all.

Wonder what would have happened had i needed to make use of the policy in the interim


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## orka (9 May 2006)

Even if the broker filled in the forms, you presumably signed a final version?  If so (and I think that's the only way the lifs co.s will accept a form - it can't be fully completed without the signature of the life insured), you would have had whatever consequences would have been applied if you had deliberately lied - although you may have had some comeback (suing) against the broker if you could prove it was his mistake and that you could not reasonably have been expected to check for this mistake.  If you were otherwise healthy and acceptable, the most likely sanction would have been a reduction of cover to the level that your premium would have bought for a smoker - i.e. if you paid 100 per month for 500,000 cover as a non-smoker, 100 per month might buy 350,000 cover for a smoker so that would be what you would have got.  I don't think you would have received nothing - nulling contracts for non-disclosure is usually only done if whatever wasn't disclosed would have meant the policy wasn't issued in the first place - e.g. history of heart trouble, investigation of a breast lump etc.


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## CN624 (9 May 2006)

Insurance companies tend to only request a medical on application if the cover you are looking for is an unusually large amount or something in your application raises a flag. 
So hopefully by the time you actually need cover you will be well over 12 months off the fags.  

I'm not sure how sensitive the cotinine tests are. Would a single fag show up?
I'm sure before the smoking ban most people would have inhaled more on a Saturday night.


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## wheeler (9 May 2006)

What about passive smoking when trying to prove is someone is a smoker/non-smoker? Would a passive smoker show as much nicotine as a 1-a-month smoker?

Not condoning lying on the form.. just wondering.


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## buffalo (9 May 2006)

Cotinine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotinine


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## Resident (9 May 2006)

I think the agent could be responsible for inaccurate information, especially if they are a tied agent(treated almost like an employee), and I think if they are an authorised advisor too(where they helped you fill in the form), but not if they are a multi agent...


on the flip side of this, where you're loosing money due to lifestyle, would I be bad if I had one cigarette before signing up for an annuity )


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