# Moving to the US for work



## Truffade (19 Feb 2022)

Hi, mulling over an offer that is currently in the early stages of discussion with my company.
I work for a US multinational and I have been asked would I consider relocating over there (Boston) for 2/3 years.
Salient facts:

Current salary = ~160k + usual benefits
Wife's salary = 82k (public sector). Her qualifications would not be recognised in the US. Likely she wouldn't work.
We own a house worth ~800k in Dublin. Remaining mortgage is 230k. We are planning a large modernisation and retrofit that will likely cost 250-300k. We have 200k put aside to cover the bulk of this.
My pension is worth ~650k. 
My wife has a PS pension.
Childrens ages: 15, 13, 10. They are fairly normal as kids go!
One dog!
Our ages: 47, 49
I have not yet gotten into any detail with my employer but my boss has indicated that the underlying reason for the move kicks off in June and he wants to discuss next week. I think I should be in a relatively strong position to negotiate and my company values my skills.

Just looking for any advice, opinions especially from anyone who has done this recently. I am very open to a couple of years abroad, as is my wife. 

Especially:

Schools - how do kids adjust to a US school curriculum and then readjust coming back.
Negotiating a relocation package. Tips/advice from anyone who has successfully done so.
Moving to the Boston area specifically. Where to stay for schools especially but also other factors.
Any other tips and advice....
Thanks in advance!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (19 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> Schools - how do kids adjust to a US school curriculum and then readjust coming back.


Your older kids may want to come back to Ireland for university.

From memory you have to be EEA-resident for three years before you qualify for "free" fees in Ireland. Otherwise you pay the non-EU rate which is generally much higher.

People often go to the US, CH, Australia for a "few years" which turns into longer and often get stung by this when the kids want to come back to Ireland to study.


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## Truffade (19 Feb 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Your older kids may want to come back to Ireland for university.
> 
> From memory you have to be EEA-resident for three years before you qualify for "free" fees in Ireland. Otherwise you pay the non-EU rate which is generally much higher.
> 
> People often go to the US, CH, Australia for a "few years" which turns into longer and often get stung by this when the kids want to come back to Ireland to study.


I think, seeing the cost of tertiary education in the US, we would very much like to do this. i.e. have kids go to college in Ireland.
So if we leave for 2 years and return, sounds like we are fine?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> So if we leave for 2 years and return, sounds like we are fine?


It is more complicated than I remembered even.

See here.



Truffade said:


> Wife's salary = 82k (public sector). Her qualifications would not be


She may be able to make voluntary PRSI contributions when in the US. These may be worth it to keep up state pension eligibility.




Truffade said:


> My pension is worth ~650k.


I have no expertise, but I guess the rules around tax residence and pension contributions will get complicated. Your situation shouldn't be super unusual and it's probably worth paying for professional advice.


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## Truffade (20 Feb 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It is more complicated than I remembered even.
> 
> See here.


Thanks No Regrets, that's actually quite reassuring as even if we managed to miss on the criteria of 'Have your parent/s been resident as tax-payer(s) in the EU/EEA/ Swiss Confederation/UK for at least 3 of the 5 years prior to starting a programme?', 
then they would still qualify on this:
*Have you done 5 years of primary and/or secondary education in the EU/EEA/Swiss Confederation/UK? *

Yes, agree your point on continuing to make PRSI contributions.

In terms of professional advice, I think we get that as part of the relocation package. But I will double-check as we get into the detail.

Thanks for all these excellent pointers!


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## PebbleBeach2020 (20 Feb 2022)

Could you not go and negotiate flights home event 6 weeks say?? Flights for wife and kids over for the summer etc your wife goes on SWYS for the summer. 

Kids stay in school, less upheaval for them. You are proposing moving them to schools. They need to settle and then you are moving them back again and they need to settle back into school here again. I wouldnt do that to my kids personally. 

I would consider turning down the role for the above reasons. I guess only you can decide on the priority of your job and the upheavel to your kids and wife compared to your current job. You are in a good position, I would go on my.own for a few years with a sweeter of flights requested when negotiating with your boss.


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## Thirsty (20 Feb 2022)

As someone who has raised two children alone; there is no way I would ask my partner to, effectively, become a lone parent for two, or more, years.

It's a major sacrifice for the family to make.


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## Truffade (20 Feb 2022)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> Could you not go and negotiate flights home event 6 weeks say?? Flights for wife and kids over for the summer etc your wife goes on SWYS for the summer.
> 
> Kids stay in school, less upheaval for them. You are proposing moving them to schools. They need to settle and then you are moving them back again and they need to settle back into school here again. I wouldnt do that to my kids personally.
> 
> I would consider turning down the role for the above reasons. I guess only you can decide on the priority of your job and the upheavel to your kids and wife compared to your current job. You are in a good position, I would go on my.own for a few years with a sweeter of flights requested when negotiating with your boss.



We're not going to do that. We either go as a family or stay as a family.

We believe there's a lot of benefit to exposing kids to different cultures, countries etc. It's not about 'upheaval' but about opportunity.

As a side note, we had the chance to relocate to South Africa about 12 years ago and turned it down. Mainly on the grounds of personal security. Our kids never stop complaining about this!

But to each their own, I respect your opinion.


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## fistophobia (20 Feb 2022)

The requirement to return taxes to Revenue for 3 years. Does this always happen? I mean, what about people leaving permanently, say I want to move to Belize.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (20 Feb 2022)

I think kids growing up today have an awful hard job compared into me and I'm not that old!!!!

At those ages, they probably have a lot of life friends and are coming into those years that really cement those friendships. Taking them away from that and moving to America would be fine (in my opinion snd smthg I'd consider myself) if I was going to America to live long term. The fact that it's two or three years and then everyone moving back to Ireland again. That's a totally different proposition I think anyway. 

You have to ask is your wife happy to give up or take time out of her career?
Is there grandparents still around and if so, they won't see the kids very often for the next few years. 
Financially, you are down 33% ISH increase with your wife not working, dies that have any impact on you financially or is it negated by a salary increase?


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## ClubMan (20 Feb 2022)

fistophobia said:


> The requirement to return taxes to Revenue for 3 years. Does this always happen? I mean, what about people leaving permanently, say I want to move to Belize.


[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


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## Thirsty (20 Feb 2022)

It depends where in the senior cycle your eldest is? If (say) they would be starting 5th year in Sept 22, it might be worth considering boarding school in Ireland, if they were happy with that of course.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Feb 2022)

Thirsty said:


> there is no way I would ask my partner to, effectively, become a lone parent for two, or more, years.


I know several spouses (including husbands) who have given up their job temporarily to move abroad for their spouse's work.

All of them have made a joint decision with their spouse, and most have really enjoyed it!

Boston is not the cultural equivalent of outer space, and is a direct flight home in an emergency.


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## Truffade (20 Feb 2022)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> I think kids growing up today have an awful hard job compared into me and I'm not that old!!!!
> 
> At those ages, they probably have a lot of life friends and are coming into those years that really cement those friendships. Taking them away from that and moving to America would be fine (in my opinion snd smthg I'd consider myself) if I was going to America to live long term. The fact that it's two or three years and then everyone moving back to Ireland again. That's a totally different proposition I think anyway.
> 
> ...


It's not uncommon, I know plenty of families who have done this. Some more than once! 
And this is obviously not some decision I would take unilaterally. My wife is fully involved. I didn't think that needed to be explicitly stated...


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## Truffade (20 Feb 2022)

Thirsty said:


> It depends where in the senior cycle your eldest is? If (say) they would be starting 5th year in Sept 22, it might be worth considering boarding school in Ireland, if they were happy with that of course.


Just about to do Junior Cert i.e. in 3rd year


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## Thirsty (20 Feb 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I know several spouses (including husbands) who have given up their job temporarily to move abroad for their spouse's work.
> 
> All of them have made a joint decision with their spouse, and most have really enjoyed it!
> 
> Boston is not the cultural equivalent of outer space, and is a direct flight home in an emergency.


I think you may have misunderstood my post.

There was a suggestion that OP would travel alone, leaving spouse and children in Ireland.  That was the scenario to which I was responding.


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## Thirsty (20 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> Just about to do Junior Cert i.e. in 3rd year


Hm..so next year could be treated as transition year (i.e. Boston) & then 5th / 6th year boarding to get into Uni here - will that cover the residency requirement though?


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## dereko1969 (21 Feb 2022)

Thirsty said:


> Hm..so next year could be treated as transition year (i.e. Boston) & then 5th / 6th year boarding to get into Uni here - will that cover the residency requirement though?


You need to read the link posted - the residency requirement is moot as they're EU citizens and will all have completed 5 years of education here.


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## DublinHead54 (21 Feb 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Your older kids may want to come back to Ireland for university.
> 
> From memory you have to be EEA-resident for three years before you qualify for "free" fees in Ireland. Otherwise you pay the non-EU rate which is generally much higher.
> 
> People often go to the US, CH, Australia for a "few years" which turns into longer and often get stung by this when the kids want to come back to Ireland to study.



Annoyingly everyone by default is treated as Non-EEA and have to prove they are EEA. I believe there is also an option for if you were educated in EEA up to a certain level then you don't need the 3 year rule.


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## DublinHead54 (21 Feb 2022)

@Truffade I lived in the states for a number of years, although I did not have children at the time, so I can't offer much advice other than observationally from colleagues experience. 

I think it is important to take the time to understand the differences between the Irish and US systems, but a few tips to be aware of and items to discuss with your employers relocation teams. 


Lack of Credit History - When you first move the lack of credit history will make it harder to get credit cards, secure rental accomodation etc. Be prepared to either need a guarantor or put down large deposits
Housing - Generally for purchase it is a 20% deposit plus ~2-3% closing fee of sale price. Housing market has gone crazy there. 
Health Insurance - This will be vitally important to understand, my company paid 50% of mine and I was still paying something silly like $600 per month. This could be a large deduction from your monthly pay. 
Tax - Generally I found I paid less tax than Ireland but then items like Health Care costs close the gaps. However, property tax can be very large compared to Ireland i.e. a 1m house is 10k per year, but then some of that can be offset against income tax
Schooling - I lived in NY and what I understood based on colleagues was that it based on catchment areas and public taxes funded the schools. Then there was two options
Buy a house in an area with bad public schools, house will be cheaper and send your kids to a private school
Buy a house in an area with good public schools, house will be more expensive and local taxes may be more expensive.

College - Much much harder process to gain entry than here in Ireland i.e. you don't just get the points to go to Harvard and apply and get in. Applicants have to have a lot of extra curricular activities, write essays to apply and also factors in where their parents went i.e. if your parents went to Harvard you have a better chance of getting in. There was the recent college entry scandal and there is a doc on netflix about it.
Cars - Cheaper than Ireland
Boston area - Great in summer, Nantucket is hands down my favorite place. On the flip side the winters can be brutal in the North East, but then you have access to ok skiing as well.
General day to day living can be expensive e.g. paying somebody to cut the grass, snow plough, school acitivities etc. However, probably not materially different to Dublin
Visas - Understand your companies greencard policy, will they apply straight away (the process can take 3 years). You don't want to build a life then lose your job and be left unable to work in the US. 
Sports - NFL!! 
In general like any country there are pros and cons, but overall the lifestyle in America can be amazing. In your specific situation, I would imagine that your equivalent US counterpart is probably earning $250k, so I wouldn't just negotiate a US salary that is just the euro equivalent converted. At the end of the day, if they have asked you the power is in your hand for negotiating.


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## Purple (21 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> Just looking for any advice, opinions especially from anyone who has done this recently. I am very open to a couple of years abroad, as is my wife.
> 
> Especially:
> 
> ...


It's a fantastic life opportunity for you and your family.
Your employer will have the infrastructure to relocate staff and their families. It's all down to do you want to go and what will they offer you to make it worth your while?
The first question is for you and your family to answer.

A friend who relocated to Texas for a few years said that his children really enjoyed it but struggled in school (secondary aged kids) as the standard of maths and science was much higher over there. That was a big surprise.
He said he;
Made sure that they were compensating him for any tax issues you'll face here as a non-resident paying a mortgage, making a tax return etc.
Made sure they paid the kids school fees (Assume they'll be going to private schools (Catholic School) and work from there).
Made sure they paid his rent and leased cars for him and his wife.
Made sure they paid their health and dental for all the family.

Have a plan as to how you dispose of your house etc, and deal with your pension here, just in case you all love it over there and want to stay.


Double check all the advice your employers relocation people give you.


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## Truffade (21 Feb 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> @Truffade I lived in the states for a number of years, although I did not have children at the time, so I can't offer much advice other than observationally from colleagues experience.
> 
> I think it is important to take the time to understand the differences between the Irish and US systems, but a few tips to be aware of and items to discuss with your employers relocation teams.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much, great info all round (except the NFL bit   )

On a couple of the specifics:

I doubt we would be buying a property.
Point noted on health insurance. And of course this is the time of life when kids attract hefty dental expenses.
Property tax. I assume if we are renting, this just gets baked into the rent? (dumb question but you never know...)
Schooling, yes seems like you must live in an area with decent public schools. Apparently the Boston area is pretty good by US standards but this would be the single biggest factor in choosing where to reside.
Weather. I've been to NYC a lot and believe Boston winters are worse again. Just get the right gear and we will be fine.
Visa - that's the company's problem is my attitude here. They relocate people all the time so should, I hope, be reasonably seamless.
Relocation package and salary. You make good points and they are exactly the ones I will be making when negotiating.


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## Truffade (21 Feb 2022)

Purple said:


> It's a fantastic life opportunity for you and your family.
> Your employer will have the infrastructure to relocate staff and their families. It's all down to do you want to go and what will they offer you to make it worth your while?
> The first question is for you and your family to answer.


This will all be discussed in the next few days. Obviously we're not going to do it if the money isn't right for starters.



Purple said:


> A friend who relocated to Texas for a few years said that his children really enjoyed it but struggled in school (secondary aged kids) as the standard of maths and science was much higher over there. That was a big surprise.


I would have thought they are roughly equivalent, that's interesting feedback.



Purple said:


> He said he;
> Made sure that they were compensating him for any tax issues you'll face here as a non-resident paying a mortgage, making a tax return etc.


Yes, all that will have to be hammered out



Purple said:


> Made sure they paid the kids school fees (Assume they'll be going to private schools (Catholic School) and work from there).


We're not Catholic. I had assumed public schools in a good area would be fine but will talk to some of my colleagues over there and find out more.



Purple said:


> Made sure they paid his rent and leased cars for him and his wife.
> Made sure they paid their health and dental for all the family.


I think the standard deal is that rent is paid for the first couple of months and then you find your own place.
Health and dental is a given.



Purple said:


> Have a plan as to how you dispose of your house etc, and deal with your pension here, just in case you all love it over there and want to stay.


We are due to get major work done on our house so being away would actually solve one headache (i.e. having to move out and rent). We would rent it out while away.
If we do end up staying, who knows, we would deal with that down the line.



Purple said:


> Double check all the advice your employers relocation people give you.


Triple checking will be the order of the day. 
At the end of the day, it's in no-one's interest to screw the other over.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2022)

Probably minor in the greater scheme of things, and no real issue if you financially very comfortable, but when you come back to Ireland stuff like car insurance will probably be a hassle/more expensive. Like you'll be starting from scratch with no previous track history.


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## Thirsty (21 Feb 2022)

dereko1969 said:


> You need to read the link posted - the residency requirement is moot as they're EU citizens and will all have completed 5 years of education here.


I would double check that flow chart; there's a difference between 'EU status' and 'Free fees' (and yes, we all know its not really free)

"In order to qualify for the Irish Free Fees Initiative you must have been living in the EU for at least 3 of the 5 years before starting your course.

You must also fulfill one of the following criteria: 

You must:


Be a citizen of the EU or
Have official refugee status or
Be a family member of a refugee and have been granted permission to live in the State or
Be a family member of an EU national and have permission to live in the State, with a stamp “4EUFAM” on your residence card or
Have been granted humanitarian leave to remain in the State or
Have been granted permission to remain in the State by the Minister for Justice and Equality, following a determination by the Minister not to make a deportation order under Section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999."
Source: TCD website. Citizens info page is similar.


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## sm7940333 (21 Feb 2022)

You mention it's 2-3 years. Is a job guaranteed on your return? Is it at the level / scope / pay of your current job or equivalent to your US job? 

If so, will you have this in writing? Just remember a lot can change in 2-3 year. Your boss moves + sponsors move on, a project goes wrong & suddenly you lose your political credit in the organization.   

Reason I ask is that my MNC tend to do only 1 way tickets (not just flight but with jobs as well). Happy to relocate you to new opportunities, but no guarantee of job back home afterwards - you have to bid as jobs open up.


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## Truffade (21 Feb 2022)

ClubMan said:


> Probably minor in the greater scheme of things, and no real issue if you financially very comfortable, but when you come back to Ireland stuff like car insurance will probably be a hassle/more expensive. Like you'll be starting from scratch with no previous track history.



Yep, seems minor enough and something we'd just deal with at the time. A good point though!


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## DublinHead54 (21 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> Thanks very much, great info all round (except the NFL bit   )
> 
> On a couple of the specifics:
> 
> ...



Not buying would negate a lot of costs, the rental market was pretty efficient in my opinion compared to Dublin at least. 

The Visa is your problem, not the company's.  The visa is issued by the US government to you and you need to understand it and keep on top of requirements as your company won't. The company will supply their lawyer, and do the paperwork etc but at the end of the day it will be you standing at immigration doing the interview. For example if memory serves right there is a difference between L1A and L1B visas there your company will probably use, one means your spouse can work the other means they can't.


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## Truffade (21 Feb 2022)

sm7940333 said:


> You mention it's 2-3 years. Is a job guaranteed on your return? Is it at the level / scope / pay of your current job or equivalent to your US job?


This is probably the second the most important reason for the move. To make a big pay jump and retain it when returning home.
Again this is something fairly standard in MNCs.



sm7940333 said:


> If so, will you have this in writing? Just remember a lot can change in 2-3 year. Your boss moves + sponsors move on, a project goes wrong & suddenly you lose your political credit in the organization.
> 
> Reason I ask is that my MNC tend to do only 1 way tickets (not just flight but with jobs as well). Happy to relocate you to new opportunities, but no guarantee of job back home afterwards - you have to bid as jobs open up.



I don't think ANY private employer would guarantee in advance that 'you will have XX job in YY years'? Again, par for the course.


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## Thirsty (21 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> I don't think ANY private employer would guarantee in advance that 'you will have XX job in YY years'? Again, par for the course.


This is worth being 100% on.

I know of one case where a person was impacted by redundancy whilst on an overseas posting; residency, visa, flights home, accomodation were all pulled at a days notice.

Sorry two quotes got merged  there.


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## Purple (21 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> We're not Catholic. I had assumed public schools in a good area would be fine but will talk to some of my colleagues over there and find out more.


Many of the kids who go aren't but there's a perception that they are better schools. The local schools might be fine but it's worth looking into.


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## Peanuts (21 Feb 2022)

Dublinbay12 said:


> *Not buying would negate a lot of costs, the rental market was pretty efficient in my opinion compared to Dublin at least.*
> 
> The Visa is your problem, not the company's.  The visa is issued by the US government to you and you need to understand it and keep on top of requirements as your company won't. The company will supply their lawyer, and do the paperwork etc but at the end of the day it will be you standing at immigration doing the interview. For example if memory serves right there is a difference between L1A and L1B visas there your company will probably use, one means your spouse can work the other means they can't.


Just to note the vast majority of rentals in the US are not provided with any furniture so you will need to budget/negotiate for the costs associated with this.


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## Truffade (21 Feb 2022)

Peanuts said:


> Just to note the vast majority of rentals in the US are not provided with any furniture so you will need to budget/negotiate for the costs associated with this.


Thanks. Yes, aware of this from stints abroad in my single days!

IKEA is our friend here...or craigslist.


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## PGF2016 (21 Feb 2022)

Truffade said:


> I don't think ANY private employer would guarantee in advance that 'you will have XX job in YY years'? Again, par for the course.


I took up a similar opportunity with a US MNC and had a guarantee in place that there would be a job to come back to. The guarantee was for a similar role, not a guarantee of the exact same job but in the end it was the position that I had left.


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## Midtown (24 Feb 2022)

Hi,

As a family we have been through this a couple of times – once on a fixed term assignment and once as a permanent transfer. Two different countries, both with the same employer.

I believe there are three things you could consider:


Is this something you as a family want – the adventure?
If you choose not to accept it does your employment continue as normal?
Is the assignment definitely fixed term? 2 years may be relatively short time to move with kids as they will likely only settle after a year or two. Is there an option to extend it or make it permanent down the line?


Both times we did it we decided at the time that it was the adventure that we wanted. Your multinational employer will likely give you a fantastic relocation partner to take care of all the tricky things about moving.

My advice if you do take the opportunity is to understand that the first year will be expensive, even with all the allowances and help your employer will give you. Buying cars, new furniture etc. etc. As somebody else mentioned you will not have a credit history so these purchases will come from your own cash.

Your kids are at various ages and will adapt differently to the changes and may take longer/shorter than each other to adapt.

On housing – I recommend renting/buying in the area with the best public schools. This will mean higher taxes but those taxes pay for the good schools and with three kids the higher property tax is cheaper than paying for private schools. We shipped all our furniture over from Ireland so only had to purchase non compatible electronics. We received an allowance for this.

Finally on spouse working/not working this will come down to visa type. Your company lawyers will advise but if your spouse is on your visa they will not be able to work initially even if they want to until they get an employment authorization document over there.

Regarding fears of redundancy, loss of supports while on assignment this is something that you can negotiate as part of repatriation supports.

Hope this helps and good luck whatever you choose.


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## Blackrock1 (25 Feb 2022)

Its a pretty major upheavel at a delicate enough point in the kids lives, unless there is a likelihood that this move will really reward you financially now or potentially in the future i would think long and hard about it. 

If everyone is onboard then make sure the numbers stack up and id take some time to go through it in detail!


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## Truffade (19 May 2022)

An update: this is still on the table but moving very slowly (nobody's fault per se, just business conditions). Awaiting a package to review....


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## Lifesapeach (15 Jun 2022)

@Truffade 

Similar situation at the moment, but minus the children. Smaller tech company, discussing a relocation, partner potentially taking career break to join me. Did you figure out if possible for spouse to work, and what type of vis allows this? Is there specific elements of a relocation package you would suggest to negotiate on? Fundamentally I want the principle that I won’t be out of pocket from the move and ultimately rewarded for making the move.


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## Truffade (27 Jun 2022)

Lifesapeach said:


> @Truffade
> 
> Similar situation at the moment, but minus the children. Smaller tech company, discussing a relocation, partner potentially taking career break to join me. Did you figure out if possible for spouse to work, and what type of vis allows this?


Aha! This was exactly the question I asked a relocation professional last week.

I am going on a L type visa and, apparently, the spousal rules have changed on that very recently meaning that yes, your spouse will be entitled to work without any extra paperwork.



Lifesapeach said:


> Is there specific elements of a relocation package you would suggest to negotiate on? Fundamentally I want the principle that I won’t be out of pocket from the move and ultimately rewarded for making the move.



A rental allowance. If your company can pay most\all of your housing cost, then you should be well set.

I'm still a bit in ignorance myself as, even though I have negotiated the package, I still don't _really_ know what the picture will be until I am over there.  as in how much is the daily cost of living, leasing a car, what will our rent be etc
I have a call with our tax consultant tomorrow so will know more then.

Our goal is primarily to enjoy the experience so if we come home with no extra money, as long as I've been contributing my pension, paying off mortgage etc, then that will be fine. The financial benefits will really kick in once we're back home and back to a dual salary household.


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## cream1 (24 Jul 2022)

The US is an expensive destination now with inflation & weak euro. U need to think about college fees for the kids, as others have said there’s a residency requirement for ‘free fees’ of 3 years


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## Truffade (12 Aug 2022)

An update on this, and an unexpected twist....

Just as I was close to finalising terms in early July, I got an unexpected offer for an internal role that allowed me to get the same salary jump as I would have got for moving to Boston - but staying in Dublin. It was a no-brainer as the role is both more interesting and probably has better long-term potential as well.
I managed not to annoy my current boss as the new role will benefit him too so a win all round.

So we are going nowhere. 

Still a sense of regret among us all but we'll go over for a holiday next year. All advice was gratefully received even if now redundant!


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