# Easter dues - Church - how much?



## pingpong (12 Apr 2006)

What does an average family (2+2 or 2+3) pay in the annual dues to the Church? I'd prefer to pay once annually as I cannot keep up with Easter autumn and Christmas dues. Is it 300-400 euros? More? Its a subject people don't like to discuss openly - in our small community anyway.


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## fobs (12 Apr 2006)

I give 50 euro for Christams/Easter and my Stations. Think this is up to whatever you can afford. could give more but don't!


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## Squonk (12 Apr 2006)

300-400euros !! If they got €50 from me they'd be lucky


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## JohnnyBoy (12 Apr 2006)

I'm trying to become a little less self-righteous,but is it only me who thinks it's extremely arrogant that they blanket post the whole community,but also labelling each envelope with the address so they can trace what each house gave.
I'm not Catholic(though born into one!) & when you consider how much money the vatican has around the world,to me it's like giving money to Enron.Anybody who gives money should have their head examined!


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## extopia (12 Apr 2006)

A big zero from our house, I'm afraid.


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## Eanair (12 Apr 2006)

I usually give €20-€25 at Christmas and Easter (single person household). My parish allows donations to be completely anonymous - you can fill out the card but there's no requirement to do so and no way to trace who gave what. That's been the case in most parishes I've lived in.

Edited to add that my parents usually give €30-€50 on behalf of themselves and the rest of the family, depending on how much they have available to give at the time.


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## ubiquitous (12 Apr 2006)

€250 per year for myself and my other half - paid in January each year.


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## SpatenMan (12 Apr 2006)

_I'm trying to become a little less self-righteous,but is it only me who thinks it's extremely arrogant that they blanket post the whole community,but also labelling each envelope with the address so they can trace what each house gave.
_
I don't think this happens in every parish. Even if the return envelope is blank ( as it is in my parish ) I think its important to include your address as it allows the Church to post back a receipt. 
And whats wrong with the Church knowing how much or how little you give? Any club should knows it members names, addresses and how much fees they pay. 
The point is, as a member, you pay how much you can afford. Not how much you think you should pay. 

pingpong we put E35.00 in the envelope and don't need our heads examined yet.


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## DrMoriarty (12 Apr 2006)

extopia said:
			
		

> A big zero from our house, I'm afraid.


Ditto, I'm afraid. The Church, AFAIK, is still the biggest (_ergo_ richest) single property-owner on this island, after the State. I pay the State 42% income tax, at least part of which goes to meeting the difference between the €127 million 'sweet deal' indemnity negotiated by a certain former Minister - on his last day in office - and the real cost of compensating former victims of clerical child abuse.

I figure that's my dues paid up through 'til, oh, let's say 2046...? (3046?) 

_[Edit: Sorry. Didn't mean to offend/inflict a personal rant on those who choose to financially support the Church. I'll shut up now...]_


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## JohnnyBoy (12 Apr 2006)

Hi Spatenman,
I'm trying to be restrained,but do you think that they should blanket post everyone.As for the accountancy practices,well transparency doesn't spring to mind(Enron does though!)
Also I think our income tax is massively subsidising the church when it comes to compensation for child abuse scandals.
So therefore I would thinks that some people's heads need examining
Apologies for the rant.


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## ClubMan (12 Apr 2006)

JohnnyBoy said:
			
		

> I'm trying to become a little less self-righteous,but is it only me who thinks it's extremely arrogant that they blanket post the whole community,but also labelling each envelope with the address so they can trace what each house gave.
> I'm not Catholic(though born into one!) & when you consider how much money the vatican has around the world,to me it's like giving money to Enron.Anybody who gives money should have their head examined!


 It's annoying that they post these envelopes in the doors of people who are not even members - like us. But then again it's as much or as little annoying as any other junk mail that comes through the letterbox.

Perhaps I should give then a 1000 Zloty note?


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## Guest127 (12 Apr 2006)

I live in a parish where there is an envelope collection, which is collected at your door weekly. they also have a monthly envelope. and also 4 times a year dues envelope. and of course the plate on Sundays. But it took me a long while to cop on to the fact that they were recording what was received in the envelopes but not of course what went on the plate on Sunday. So now I still give the same, about €5 per week but now 80% is in the envelope and the balance on the plate. Used to send around this letter with how much you actually put in the envelope but now just state that the envelopes are recorded ( which to be fair they have to be) and if you want to check up to see that it is being recorded correctly just to pop round to the parish etc.  Good Parish to be fair and they do have a lot of rough with the smooth. and I am not being 'smart' in saying that.


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## ClubMan (12 Apr 2006)

In case it's of any relevance ... the mass collections may be used for different purposes that the _Easter Dues _collections as far as I recall. Isn't one mass collection for the local parish and the other for the _Share_/diocesan collection?


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## justsally (12 Apr 2006)

The first plate collection on holy days of obligation, together with Easter and Christmas dues, is intended for submission  to Diocesan central funds, from where "salaries" pensions, etc. are drawn down for clergy.   The 2nd plate collection, generally known as the "Share" collection is also submitted to Diocesan central funds.    It was originally instituted for the upkeep and expansion of parishes in the Diocese of Dublin, but now the brief has been expanded to include all administration costs of the Diocese.   Incidentally, Dublin is the only diocese that has a "share" collection.


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## Swallows (12 Apr 2006)

Does anyone remember the days when the priest used to read out from the pulpit the list of money's paid by the parishioners, starting with the highest ( town shopkeepers/ teacher) until he got to the lowest, who were then shamed up because they could not afford much but had to pay anyway. The priest lived in a good house and had a car,  (and a housekeeper ) while other people went without. It's not something I'm likely to forget in a hurry.


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## pokerwidow (12 Apr 2006)

Swallows said:
			
		

> Does anyone remember the days when the priest used to read out from the pulpit the list of money's paid by the parishioners, starting with the highest ( town shopkeepers/ teacher) until he got to the lowest, who were then shamed up because they could not afford much but had to pay anyway. The priest lived in a good house and had a car, (and a housekeeper ) while other people went without. It's not something I'm likely to forget in a hurry.


 
I do as a child in the 80's.  The priest we had talked about money ALL the time.  Every sermon was like an economics lesson.


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## sloggi (13 Apr 2006)

pokerwidow said:
			
		

> I do as a child in the 80's. The priest we had talked about money ALL the time. Every sermon was like an economics lesson.


 
interesting name as such poker widow!!!

one good thing about apartment living.....you dont get the "drop in" from local friendly recruiting clergy!!

A friend told me of a priest in her area who anounced from the pulpit that when he was visiting, he would require tea in a china cup...none of this mug business!! 

i dont personally go but i know people who used to go and give 5p per person in the plate, no envelope collection - and i ain't talking 5p when it was a lot of money! parish soon changed as a result to envelope colection! What country is it where you declare you allegiance to a particular religion and a tax type thing is taken from your wages on their behalf....or did i dream that one up??


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## ClubMan (13 Apr 2006)

sloggi said:
			
		

> A friend told me of a priest in her area who anounced from the pulpit that when he was visiting, he would require tea in a china cup...none of this mug business!!


Sounds like one for snopes.com...


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## extopia (13 Apr 2006)

Good luck to the collectors, they are on a diminishing run.

Amazing how far they have fallen, really.


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## casiopea (13 Apr 2006)

Swallows said:
			
		

> The priest lived in a good house and had a car,  (and a housekeeper ) while other people went without. It's not something I'm likely to forget in a hurry.



This day is long long gone.

The priest in our parish (considered quite an affluent part of Dublin) lives in a tiny bed sit.  He does have a car.  In fairness these are men who've studied for 7 years, its a job where overtime is not only necessary but expected and at the end of the day they dont have a family to go home to. In the same way I dont begrudge our local doctor a home, I dont begrudge our local priest a home. 

I know the Church is one of the richest organisations out there.  I wouldnt mind an audit on the vatican, but its not our local priests who are benefiting.


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## casiopea (13 Apr 2006)

sloggi said:
			
		

> What country is it where you declare you allegiance to a particular religion and a tax type thing is taken from your wages on their behalf....or did i dream that one up??




In switzerland I pay catholic tax. Its one of the indirect taxes.
The concept of religion tax is quite common in most countries. Its one of the good things about Ireland that its up to you to decide do you want to pay easter dues or not.

cas.


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## Vanilla (13 Apr 2006)

In my fathers parish they get a box with >52 envelopes in it, each numbered, for the weekly plate collection. Then they also get the usual Easter, All Saints etc envelopes. So not only could one track how much is given by any particular household, but also attendance! That would put me off, I have to say. Although I suppose it could also relate to accountability.


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## legend99 (13 Apr 2006)

The Easter and Xmas collections I thought are referred to as peters pence...i.e. it goes to the priests of the parish? As far as I know, isn't the theory, not often publicised I guess cause of what the reaction would be...that you are supposed to give 10% of your income or something to the church?


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## gramlab (13 Apr 2006)

Church is rich enough to take care of its own. Have got plenty of dues letters in the post complete with address. Haven't returned one yet and am still standing. Got a few direct debits set up for charities and feel thats a better way to get money to those who need it.


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## JohnnyBoy (13 Apr 2006)

I don't have a problem with the individual priests,however they represent the morons in Rome & why should anybody be made guilty into contributing.Again Enron springs to mind.An early contributor mentioned amounts being read out in the church(in the 80s!-I was unfortunately dragged kicking & screaming to mass in the 80s,but I definitely don't remember this-is this true?)


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## Janet (13 Apr 2006)

sloggi said:
			
		

> What country is it where you declare you allegiance to a particular religion and a tax type thing is taken from your wages on their behalf....or did i dream that one up??



You have to do that in Germany - if I recall correctly it's about 1%.  Loads of people I know just claimed no religion but I was never able to lie about it.  Now that I'm taking steps to be officially removed from the catholic church it wouldn't be a problem when I go back to live there (I'll get there one day!) but I will need to have the letter from the church as they'll already have on record that I'm Roman Catholic.  If they find out you've lied, incidentally, they will come looking for back taxes.  This happened to a couple I know who lived there but came back to Ireland to get married.  When they went to inform the town hall they'd gotten married they had to put down where they got married and because they put down the name of the church it went into their records, which said they had no religion so they were investigated and had to pay up their back tax.

Switzerland also has a church tax as far as I know.


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## suds (13 Apr 2006)

Janet - I read somewhere else that you can take steps to formally dis-affiliate yourself from the Church. Is this what you are doing - and is it here in Ireland? I would be interested in the details of how to do this!


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## ClubMan (13 Apr 2006)

Bit ironic (hypocritical?) the _Christian _churches accepting taxes collected on their behalf by nation states, eh?

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030312.htm


> Then He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:17-21 RSV)





			
				Janet said:
			
		

> Loads of people I know just claimed no religion but I was never able to lie about it


 Are you insinuating that some of them lied in claiming no religion and, if so, on what basis?


> Now that I'm taking steps to be officially removed from the catholic church


 Other than excommunication how can one do this? I would be very interested to avoid them claiming me based on my past history of forced indoctrination.


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## Janet (13 Apr 2006)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Are you insinuating that some of them lied in claiming no religion and, if so, on what basis?.



Yes.  On the basis that they told me and also on the basis that they did attend mass while in Germany.  So, it's all just hearsay as far as you're concerned - have no proof.  Some would have considered themselves to have no religion although technically speaking were still Catholic.  Others simply didn't want to pay the tax.  When you're a student, sometimes you'll do anything to save a few euro (or Deutschmarks as it was then).  Just in case you're wondering no, I never reported any of these people.




			
				ClubMan said:
			
		

> Other than excommunication how can one do this? I would be very interested to avoid them claiming me based on my past history of forced indoctrination.



I'd been trying to figure out what to do about this for a while and found this thread on boards.ie recently:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=258984

Seemed like as good a place to start as any.  Was pretty certain I'd need to get in touch with priest in the parish I grew up in as a starting point anyway.  Hopefully the fact that I was (I'm pretty sure) actually baptised in a different, older church (the parish church I attended as a child was only built the year I was born) and made my communion and confirmation in a different parish (the one my school was in) won't present too many difficulties.


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## ZEGAR (13 Apr 2006)

Would not give a penny to the church..The Pope has enough Prada shoes


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## sloggi (13 Apr 2006)

Yeah i'm pretty bitter about most deductions from my gross wage, of benefit to me or otherwise, so a religious tax might just send me over the edge altogether!  Bit of a lapsed catholic right enough but the faith in "something" keeps me peeping my head through the doors from time to time (read Chirstmas)! Might just get me into heaven, but not if they count up my church contribution in the big old balance sheet of life!!!


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## Joe1234 (13 Apr 2006)

Vanilla said:
			
		

> In my fathers parish they get a box with >52 envelopes in it, each numbered, for the weekly plate collection. Then they also get the usual Easter, All Saints etc envelopes. So not only could one track how much is given by any particular household, but also attendance! That would put me off, I have to say. Although I suppose it could also relate to accountability.



We get the same weekly envelopes, but I believe that they are not checked  to see who gives what.  The envelopes used to be just opened and discarded, while the money was bagged.


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## ClubMan (14 Apr 2006)

Janet said:
			
		

> Yes.  On the basis that they told me and also on the basis that they did attend mass while in Germany.  So, it's all just hearsay as far as you're concerned - have no proof.


 Er, I just asked. It was not clear that they had told you and that you had not just jumped to conclusions. Thanks for the clarification though.


> Just in case you're wondering no, I never reported any of these people.


 I wasn't wondering and don't really care. Tax evasion in _Germany _is not really my concern.


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## Guest127 (15 Apr 2006)

I think I understand the bit about Germany and Switzerland. On the same basis if the irish government actually reach the .07% target of gnp for overseas aid etc , would this mean that Concern/Trocaire/Oxfam etc would be in difficulties  trying to raise  donations for overseas aid? wouldn't like to think so. But it appears that in Germany/Switzerland  the state 'collects'  and then distributes on behalf of the various congregations, so no further collections are made.


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## bond-007 (17 Apr 2006)

I think for reasons such as above, you should be allowed to formally leave the church and have baptisms and confirmations undone as they would have been done under duress and without informed consent.


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## Guest127 (17 Apr 2006)

Bocade: thats the kind of letter we used to get, but they have stopped it. anyway as I stated above all I did was shift the 'plate' collection to the envelope. same amount donated but it kept them happy.


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## woods (17 Apr 2006)

I have read this tread for the first time today and am amazed. I grew up in the sixties when the church still had a little dignity and got respect. I find it hard to believe that they are intimidating people nowadays and harder to believe that people are letting them get away with it. Why pay if you do not want to. The german law does not apply here. DONT PAY and do not let anyone intimidate you into doing so.
I know that there are people who want to pay and that is fine for them but if you feel that you are being bullied into it then make it stop.


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## justsally (17 Apr 2006)

Am I among the few people who refused to continue contributing towards the planned giving/envelope collection and told the local clery my reasons for doing so.?    I think we owe it to ourselves, the church and our community to speak up and be counted when we don't agree with what is being done in the name of religion.    "religion hides mischief from suspicion".   It is not my intention to offend the sensibilities of those who still hold with all that is done in the name of their religion - but sometimes there is another way.


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## brian.mobile (17 Apr 2006)

I suppose if you don't give to the Church you shouldnt take from the Church.

I'll outsource my burial so...

BM


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## justsally (17 Apr 2006)

my rates are reasonable


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## brokeparent (17 Apr 2006)

A very valid reason why the church tracks donations is that they can claim income tax back for donations over a certain point each year. This is similar to other charities to which people voluntarily give money.


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## Swallows (17 Apr 2006)

The thing to do then is give to the church anonymously, every year (or how often you want ) then there will be no come back. This way one does not feel pressured, such as the envelope being left in the church for pick up with your name on it. If you dont attend church everyone knows because the envelope has not been collected. It's like the Mass cards, one priest would only accept a certain  amount and nothing less. Then I came across a priest who would only accept a sealed envelope with no name on it, only the deceased, and what ever offering you could afford, be it a penny or a pound. I thought that was a much better way of doing things.
Agreed , the priest has to live and he does work, some down the country here now have two and three parishes to look after because of the shortage of priests. It's probably time that this money business got sorted out and people know where they stand. There seems to be a lot of bad feeling about this and the two should be separated. Have Mass but dont associate it with how much money you can pay, this puts people off.


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## c.c (7 Feb 2007)

Hi  there, we pay for a family with one working adult €5.00 per week on Sunday and €50 to the Priests Collection eg. Christmas,Easter etc..
We also pay a 10 euro per month towards the upkeep of our church.People are always complaining about paying these collections but you never hear them complaining as they are buying their packet of fags of pint in the pub! I personally think it is not alot to pay over the year to the Church and our Priest.


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