# Huge (rent allowance) tenant issues - what to do?



## Jugovic (5 Feb 2009)

Hi all,

I had new tenants move into my rental property on October 1st. This was the first time I have rented out the property to rental allowance tents, whose rent is paid by the (Clare county) council. They seemed to be nice people and I accepted them at face value. Before people start giving me a hard time on this, I understand that this situation could have occured with standard rental people - but this situation occured with rent allowance couple for me.

I signed the rent allowance contracts for 800 Euro / month (they were to contribute 52 euro to what the council would give). Unlike usual contracts, the check from the council comes out at the end of the first rental month. I asked time and time again why couldn't the check come direct to the landlord - just not possible, I was told. The council did supply a 600 Euro deposit check on day one when house was rented. I have signed up with all the appropriate details with the PRBT.

Now onto the issues:
1. This week I found the house has been abandoned. Some of their stuff is still in the house. No keys returned. They owe me 2 months rent. A week or so ago the man told me that the couple was splitting up. I have been mainly trying to contact this man but no answer on phone for about a week. I rang the 'lady' at the start of the week and asked her to get him in contact with me - no response.

2. When he took the house, he installed chorus (on his name) - bill outstanding for about 300 Euro, unpaid. What can I do here? Ring up and cancel myself? Will I have to pay this (Obviously, I don't see why I should), or if another tenant installs chorus will there be an issue?

3. Outstanding bill of about 300 Euro (oil) - same questions as above, Will I have to pay this (Again, I should not have to)? Will another tenant have an issue if going to get oil form same company? In addition, 300 Euro was not paid to me one month because 'they had to pay 300 euro for oil' - obviously a complete lie now.

4. ESB is in tenants name, as far as I can see this has been paid up - although there is a bill due out this month. Believe ESB still in tenants name.

4. I am going to hold onto the 600 euro deposit to cover one of the months rent. Should I ring up the council rep about this?

I am absolutely disgusted about the whole thing. I was extremely understanding all the time (as have done with nearly all tenents) and feel absolutely used. I have been in contact with the council rep over the last few months on the fact that the tenant kept saying the checks wern't coming out, while the council rep said they were - he absolutely didn't want to know about any issues between me and him. I haven't yet told him about all the stuff above.

So, some advice of other people who got into a similar situation would be helpeful. 
Will I personally owe chorus / oil company money, and will there be problems when new tenants go to chorus / the oil company?
Will the PRBT help at all in this situation?
What about the council, what can I do there?
Any point of going down a legal route?

Although i can't get in contact with the man, I can contact the 'lady'. I also have the mans bank account details.

Appreicate the help / feedback.


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## Jugovic (5 Feb 2009)

In addition, I had a 1 year standard lease signed (by both myself and the tenant) on October 1st.


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## Raskolnikov (5 Feb 2009)

Points 2, 3 and 4 shouldn't be a worry to you. Your tenants are liable for the payments; the only thing you need to do is to transfer the ESB back over to your own name. Just make to let them know that the tenant is liable for any outstanding amount on the bill.

I would definitely get in touch with the council and inform them that you have not received your two months of payments.


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## Jugovic (5 Feb 2009)

Hi Raskolnikov,

Good point re ESB. I'll take a reading and let the ESB know that, and ask to transfer back over to my name.

About the oil and chorus, should I ring both and let them know the tenants have moved out and give contact details etc. Expecially re chorus, should I cancel asap?

I will be in contact with the council re the two months of payment.


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## mercman (5 Feb 2009)

You do need to contact the council immediately as this is for rent due to you. The deposit does not have to be returned as the lease has been broken. However, I would doubt if the ESB has been placed in the tenants name.
Oil, Chorus etc are'nt your problem only if you want to pay other's bills.

What kind of things did they leave behind ?? Could they be sold to recoup your losses ? If no, I would contact the woman and advise here that you want the keys immediately (as the locks will have to be changed). If no joy, just dump the contents.


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## sam h (5 Feb 2009)

I had a similar situation recently, so here's my understanding of where you stand:



> Will I personally owe chorus / oil company money, and will there be problems when new tenants go to chorus / the oil company?
> Will the PRBT help at all in this situation?
> What about the council, what can I do there?
> Any point of going down a legal route?


 
 - You had no contract with Chorus, the oild company, EBS etc., so youi should not be liable for these.  You should probably contact them to say that they have left the property
 - Technically the PRTB should the the agency to help you, but the reality they are a waste of space.  Even if they ruled in your favour.....what is the likelihood of you getting money off 2 people who are on welfare as they probably have little to no means
 - The council have no contract with you, so they won't do anything

You could persue it but this will probable be fruitless, you might be better to chalk it down to experience!  BTW - not all RA tenants are so bad, I've had plenty who have been excellent tenants.....I've also had some bad ones.  The ones who ran out on me last month weren;t on rent allowance.


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## z103 (5 Feb 2009)

With regards the unpaid rent, which the tenants have probably pocketed - this happened to a friend of mine. They reported it to the council who were simply not interested. You wont get any money from the council, or the tenants, so you might as well just move on and forget about it.

Why were you buying their oil for them? - was this in the lease?


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## murphaph (5 Feb 2009)

The utilies providers will possibly blacklist the property and require a deposit from future tenants before setting up an account for them.


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## TLC (5 Feb 2009)

Only one comment - change the locks quick!


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## elgransenor (6 Feb 2009)

Jugovic,
If the only parties to the contract were you and the tenants then the council have no liability.
However some councils have a scheme called Rental Accomodation Scheme where they guarantee the tenant's rent and the rent allowance received by the tenant from Social Welfare is paid to the council by the tenant-I have a couple like this but I don't think that is the situation with you because if you had a guarantee from the council then you would not have a problem.

The only question arising from this is the deposit cheque-was this made payable to you or to the tenant who than endorsed it and handed it over.
If it was made payable to you from the council then you have some grounds for holding council responsible but fairly slim.

As for creditors the only one you should be concerned about is ESB unless the account was put in the tenant's name.If it was just transfer the account back in to your own name and each time you let the apt. ring the ESB with name,date of birth and contact no. for the tenant and the account will be then in the tenant's name and you will have no liability.

If the account was not put into the tenant's name then you are liable-tough lesson I know but thats the situation.

As for the house being blacklisted,if a millionaire moved in tomorrow and oredered heating oil and you owned the heating oil company would you supply him? Of course you would and if you didn't he would get it elsewhere. But there is only one ESB so....

Chalk it down to experience I think if the letting agreement was between you and the tenants.


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## gipimann (6 Feb 2009)

Were the tenants in the Rental Accommodation Scheme (run by the council as elgransenor mentioned) or were they receiving Rent Supplement from the HSE?   If the former, then the bulk of the rent would be paid directly to the landlord from the council, if the latter the rent supplement may have been paid to the tenant.

If the tenants were getting Rent Supplement, I would suggest that the landlord contacts the HSE to advise that the tenants have "skipped town" - this would stop any further payments being made to them in respect of this property.

In terms of the utilities and blacklisting, didn't the ESB change their accounting system some years ago, so an account number now "belongs" to the person rather than the property?   It means that the account (and the debt) should follow the tenant rather than blacklist the house itself (and any new tenants)?


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## Maread (8 Feb 2009)

In terms of the utilities and blacklisting, didn't the ESB change their accounting system some years ago, so an account number now "belongs" to the person rather than the property? It means that the account (and the debt) should follow the tenant rather than blacklist the house itself (and any new tenants)?[/quote]


This is correct.  I've recently moved into rented accommodation.  The previous tenants had a huge outstanding bill but I had no problem opening a new account in my name, giving them the meter reading.  I think this new "law" was introduced because electricity is considered an essential service and there is only one provider.  Obviously the previous tenant will have a problem if he tries to open a new account elsewhere


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## cleverclogs7 (9 Feb 2009)

sorry to hear that.im on R/A and im happy to say that im a model tenent.please dont let this effect you in a way that you will never take r/a ppl again.
You need to contact your council and the hsc give the persons full name and they can find the ppl using there prsi number.contact the prtb or threshold also and tell them what has happened.As you said it could have happened with a non R/A couple.
Just for further info.the rent can be sent to your account ,but the tenent has to agree and hand over your bacnk info to there social welfare officer.


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## gipimann (9 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> You need to contact your council and the hsc give the persons full name and they can find the ppl using there prsi number


 
The CWO may be able to look up a computer system, however they would be in breach of Data Protection rules if they did so.   They certainly couldn't pass on the information to a 3rd party.



cleverclogs7 said:


> Just for further info.the rent can be sent to your account ,but the tenent has to agree and hand over your bank info to there social welfare officer.


 
This is not available in all areas of the country.


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## minion (10 Feb 2009)

2 things here.

1 - Call the welfare officer.  Dont tell him they have moved out unless he doesnt cooperate.  Tell him that they are late with the rent and you are kicking them out if the cheque is not posted directly to you in future. (chances are they havent told him they have moved).
If he doesnt do that then ring him the next day anyway and tell him they have dissapeared.  If you do get cheques, take the money owed to you and then after that tell him they are gone.

2 - This applies to Anyone getting rent allowance for a property they have let.  Always insist that the welfare officer posts the cheque directly to you or credit your account (they will always do this if you give them no other option) and its in your name.   There is absolutely no justification in making that cheque out to the tennant and they know it.  If they wont do this for you tell them you will not be leting the place to RA tenants then.


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## Bronte (11 Feb 2009)

minion said:


> 2 things here.
> 
> 1 - Call the welfare officer. Dont tell him they have moved out unless he doesnt cooperate. Tell him that they are late with the rent and you are kicking them out if the cheque is not posted directly to you in future. (chances are they havent told him they have moved).
> If he doesnt do that then ring him the next day anyway and tell him they have dissapeared. If you do get cheques, take the money owed to you and then after that tell him they are gone.


 
I think this would be illegal and classified as theft.  The rental contract is between OP and his tenants (his choice)  not OP and the HSE.


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## gipimann (11 Feb 2009)

minion said:


> 2 things here.
> 
> 1 - Call the welfare officer. Dont tell him they have moved out unless he doesnt cooperate. Tell him that they are late with the rent and you are kicking them out if the cheque is not posted directly to you in future. (chances are they havent told him they have moved).
> If he doesnt do that then ring him the next day anyway and tell him they have dissapeared. If you do get cheques, take the money owed to you and then after that tell him they are gone.
> ...


 
Your first point, if I'm reading it correctly, is suggesting that the landlord defraud the Social Welfare system by claiming rent supplement for tenants which no longer reside.

Your second point is incorrect.   There is no obligation on any Community Welfare Officer to pay Rent Supplement directly to a landlord.  An application for Rent Supplement is made by the tenant, and that is who the Community Welfare Service deal with.   Direct payment may be made in some areas as a convenience, at the request of the tenant.   If a landlord demands direct payment and threatens to refuse to accept Rent Supplement tenants, that's a matter for the landlord not for the Community Welfare Service.   

Many landlords have decided that they don't accept Rent Supplement tenants, that's their choice.


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## minion (11 Feb 2009)

gipimann said:


> Your first point, if I'm reading it correctly, is suggesting that the landlord defraud the Social Welfare system by claiming rent supplement for tenants which no longer reside.
> 
> Your second point is incorrect.   There is no obligation on any Community Welfare Officer to pay Rent Supplement directly to a landlord.  An application for Rent Supplement is made by the tenant, and that is who the Community Welfare Service deal with.   Direct payment may be made in some areas as a convenience, at the request of the tenant.   If a landlord demands direct payment and threatens to refuse to accept Rent Supplement tenants, that's a matter for the landlord not for the Community Welfare Service.
> 
> Many landlords have decided that they don't accept Rent Supplement tenants, that's their choice.



On my first point.  Has the person given you notice that they have moved out.  No?  Then you can assume they are still tenants and that social welfare will pay them their rent allowance.  then its between them and social welfare once you get whats owed to you.
In fairness its probably not a workabl;e idea anyway, but you can try.

My second point is actually valid.  Give them no other choice and they will pay directly to the landlord.  I know several people who do this.  They always get resistance at first but when they dont budge it works out ok.


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## gipimann (11 Feb 2009)

minion said:


> On my first point. Has the person given you notice that they have moved out. No? Then you can assume they are still tenants and that social welfare will pay them their rent allowance. then its between them and social welfare once you get whats owed to you.
> In fairness its probably not a workabl;e idea anyway, but you can try.


 
The OP stated that he knew the house to be abandoned - so couldn't assume he still had tenants.   What is owed to the landlord in this case is between the tenant and the landlord - as the tenants have been paid their Rent Supplement for the months in question.   As I said above, nothing to do with HSE.   If the persons were not in receipt of Rent Supplement and abandoned the property, what would a landlord do? Pursue the tenants, most likely.   No difference in this case.


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