# Equitable Life WP fund - any other policy holders out there?



## ClubMan (26 Mar 2007)

If so do you know
Why they have never written to _Irish _policyholders in recent years apprising them of changes in the _Irish WP MVA_? Note that [broken link removed] that the _MVA _is 8% but this is the _*UK *WP MVA_. The _Irish WP MVA _is currently 10% but the last time the wrote to policyholders [broken link removed] announcing that the _MVA _had gone from 18% to 24%, 11% to 17% or 6% to 12% depending on what sort of policy was held. They have never written to policyholders since then to announce changes to the _Irish WP MVA_.
Why they have not included details of the bonus declarations and other general information relating to the _Irish WP _fund in their annual statements and reports - they only ever cover the _UK _fund details and _Irish _policyholders are easily mislead into thinking that these apply to their funds.
If/how the  might affect _Irish WP_ policyholders (non annuitants) as the letters that they sent about this last week don't make it clear at all.
For what it's worth items 1 and 2 among other issues are the subject of a complaint about _EL _that I made a while ago to the [broken link removed] and I am awaiting feedback on this.


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

Just to follow up on this. The _FSO _have ruled on my complaint and while they did not uphold my compaint in relation to item 2 above (saying that while the information about status/bonus rates/_MVA _rates etc. on the _Irish WP _fund was not readily available in annual statements/reports or on their website _EL _do give it out on request by individual _Irish WP _policyholders) they did uphold my complaint in relation to item 1 and have awarded financial compensation to me due to the hassle caused by _EL _misinforming me about the _MVA _that actually applied to the _Irish WP _fund. The financial compensation represents about one third of the money attributable to the 6% difference between the originally (incorrectly) stated 4% _MVA_ and the actual 10% _MVA _that does apply to the _Irish WP _fund. I am surprised that they did not take a dimmer view on item 2 to be honest. I am tempted to appeal the decision on the basis of this but will probably just take the money, quit _EL _(at the cost of 10% _MVA _on my _WP _fund) and switch to unit linked with another provider and put an end to this sorry saga...


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## LDFerguson (26 Jul 2007)

Congratulations on your victory - great to see someone prepared to follow through on a complaint.


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

Sorry - just to clarify ... on reading the _FSO's _letter in detail it is clearly stated that they did not uphold my complaint regarding item 2 but it is not so clear whether or not they upheld my complaint regarding item 1. I think that they did not since what I was requesting was that the originally notified _MVA _of 4% be applied. However regardless of this they have awarded compensation for inconvenience caused. The report from the _FSO _ends with _"Complaint not upheld - customer service award" _which is a bit arcane to me but which I guess means that they have no upheld my substantive complaints but have awarded compensation on related grounds.


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## LDFerguson (26 Jul 2007)

Noted, but I still consider it a victory on the grounds that you have got more than the majority who didn't complain.


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## ClubMan (31 Jul 2007)

I also complained to _IFSRA _about the wider issue of _Irish EL WP _policyholders receiving misinformation (namely_ UK WP _bonus and _MVA _rates which are not applicable to the _Irish WP _fund) in their annual reports and statements etc. This is obviously misleading to such policyholders and seriously detrimental to their ability to effectively manage their _EL WP_ pension and non pension investments. While _IFSRA _have said that they have passed this complaint onto their _Consumer Protection and Codes _department they also quoted the usual legalese basically saying that I need not expect to hear back from them on this matter.


> The Financial Regulator is restricted from disclosing information under S.33AK  of the Central Bank Act, 1942 (as amended by the Central Bank and Financial  Services Authority of Ireland Act, 2003).


 Seems like a waste of time to expect _IFSRA _to actually do something worthwhile to protect consumer interests on personal finance matters and to keep the complainant informed...


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## ClubMan (3 Aug 2007)

For the benefit of anybody else who might be interested _EL _have just informed me that the currently prevailing _MVA _on _Irish WP _funds is 6%.


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## ClubMan (26 Oct 2007)

The _FSO _ruled on the matter and granted me compensation on July 25th. The decision became binding soon after that as per the FSO complaints process. The _FSO _would have sent _EL _the ruling and some letters thereafter. _EL _have still not paid up. This morning an  _FSO _letter informs me that _EL _claim that they never received the original ruling so now the _FSO _have to send it to them again. They did not say if _EL _will once again have a certain period thereafter to object. This process started c. January this year and is still not resolved. I think the _FSO _have done their best on it but it's a ridiculously long drawn out process and I can only assume that _EL _are playing silly buggers over a relatively small amount to them.


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## neiltheseal (27 Oct 2007)

Hi Clubman,

I have had a with profits fund with EL since 1997 - frozen since 2000

I notice that the transfer value at the end of Dec 2006 was higher than the notional value. In the previous years 2002-2005, the transfer value was lower than the notional value.

How does the Irish with profits MVA relate to transfer value? Is it already factored into the trasnsfer value?
I presume that the statements that EL was sending to Irish investors were correct and that the misleading information is on their website and general correspondence sent to us - is that correct?

Is there an organisation in Ireland for Equitable Life investors? I believe there are 50,000 of us.


Neil


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## ClubMan (21 Nov 2007)

ClubMan said:


> The _FSO _ruled on the matter and granted me compensation on July 25th. The decision became binding soon after that as per the FSO complaints process. The _FSO _would have sent _EL _the ruling and some letters thereafter. _EL _have still not paid up. This morning an  _FSO _letter informs me that _EL _claim that they never received the original ruling so now the _FSO _have to send it to them again. They did not say if _EL _will once again have a certain period thereafter to object. This process started c. January this year and is still not resolved. I think the _FSO _have done their best on it but it's a ridiculously long drawn out process and I can only assume that _EL _are playing silly buggers over a relatively small amount to them.


_EL _have *still *not paid up so I have had to contact the _FSO _yet again asking them if/how this matter can be escalated/expedited. The whole process started 11 months ago!


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## ClubMan (21 Nov 2007)

neiltheseal said:


> I notice that the transfer value at the end of Dec 2006 was higher than the notional value. In the previous years 2002-2005, the transfer value was lower than the notional value.
> 
> How does the Irish with profits MVA relate to transfer value? Is it already factored into the trasnsfer value?


I have no idea - even after they "simplified" the statements I could not understand the _WP _stuff to be honest. At least, other than trying to get them to pay the compensation mentioned above, I thankfully no longer have any dealings with them myself.


> I presume that the statements that EL was sending to Irish investors were correct and that the misleading information is on their website and general correspondence sent to us - is that correct?


No - the correspondence was also incorrect as it only ever (at least in recent years) mentioned _UK MVAs_, bonus rates etc. without any qualification that these were not relevant to the _Irish WP _funds. I presume that actual statement values were correct but don't know for sure.


> Is there an organisation in Ireland for Equitable Life investors? I believe there are 50,000 of us.


I only ever heard of the _UK _(?) EMAG. I think that there may have been some effort to set up an _Irish _equivalent a while back but have no idea what, if anything, happened on that front.


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## ClubMan (3 Dec 2007)

Just to update this thread - last week I finally received payment from _Equitable Life _of the compensation granted by the _FSO _in this matter. Only took c. 11 months all told! To be fair to the _FSO _they were attentive and helpful at all times.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Dec 2007)

Well done. It shows that you really have to be determined to get your consumer rights.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (4 Dec 2007)

Thanks. As I mentioned above it was serendipitous that while the complaints process dragged on so long the _EL MVA _actually fell from 10% to 6% by the time I actually moved my pension fund away from them. So the difference between the _MVA _that actually applied to my transfer in the end (6%) and that originally misquoted to me (4%) was probably about the same as the compensation awarded by the _FSO_.


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## Trekker (26 Jan 2009)

The Irish Times and Irish Independent say there are 6500 to 8000 Equitable Life Victims in Ireland. HM Govt recently partly accepted it's Parliamentry Ombudsman report and has appointed a retired High Court Judge to consider compensation, based only on the parts of the Report which HMG accepted. More on discussion bosrd at www.fool.co.uk or . See Westminister debate live at 11am 27/1/09 on Parliament Live Web Site and also PASC meeting at 10am  29/1/09 (EMAG will be there). 

HMGovt has not acted on the EU recommendation that compensation be paid to Equitable victims.

I hope the Irish victims are not forgotten. EMAG does not seem to represent them. 

(I contributed to Equitable With Profits Pension in the U.K. and, as an annuitant, was transferred to Canada Life by Equitable, withouit any choice.)


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## Dave Vanian (12 Aug 2011)

Now that the compensation scheme is allegedly up and running, have any Irish EL policyholders received correspondence?

http://equitablelifepaymentscheme.independent.gov.uk/


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Aug 2011)

Hi Dave

A friend of mine asked me if he qualified and I suggested that he contact the Equitable Life directly. This is the correspondence from the last few days



> I am an Irish former Equitable Life member and With Profits
> policyholder and wondered if  this payment/compensation scheme applies to Irish and other international/non UK policyholders? If i does then should I expect to
> receive a letter about this before the 2012 deadline?



and their reply
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


> Yes — providing you meet the eligibility criteria listed in The Equitable Life Payment Scheme design.
> 
> The Scheme has been set up by HM Government to make fair and transparent payments to Equitable Life policyholders, for relative financial loss suffered as a result of Government maladministration in the regulation of Equitable Life.
> 
> ...


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