# Key Post: HSA Hospital Cash Plans



## fatherdougalmaguire

Does anyone subscribe to this service? If so, is it worthwhile or am I just as well to claim GP expenses (MED1) at the end of the year?

Thanks


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## Raid250

*HSA*

Yup, best thing since the sliced pan, espically if you have kids.....claim up to limits, half of GP, perscriptions, consultants, dental, optical, etc....I always wind up getting more back than I pay in


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA (not the Health & Safety authority)*

Hi Dougal - I've subscribed to HSA through my employer. Their Irish/Euro plan (which doesn't seem to appear on their website) offers fairly broad coverage under a range of headings, though the cover limit within each of those headings is fairly modest. I reckoned that with a few GP visits, a few perscriptions and 1 or 2 consultant visits, it would be a worthwhile investment. 

However, this is my first year to join, so it's probably too early to say whether I'm right or not.


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## fatherdougalmaguire

*Re: HSA (not the Health & Safety authority)*

Raid250, are you subscribed through your employer? Just visited the HSA web site and it seems to offer coverage only to UK residents. If anyone has had experience joining as an individual I'd be keen on hearing feedback.

I've also just noticed that VHI offer a similar sounding service called HealthSteps. Need to do a bit of homework on that one.


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## Tommy

*Re: HSA (not the Health & Safety authority)*

There is a HSA operation (presumably an Irish branch of an international company) operating in Dublin.


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## starfish

*HSA*

I also subscribe to HSA through my employer. HSA seems very good value for families, especially as a maternity benefit is available. If you are single, you would want to be pretty sure that you claim up to the limit in three categories or more (e.g dental, optical, doctors fees) before it's worth your while. Just claiming for GP fees wouldn't make it worth your while.


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## Raid250

*HSA*

Yes Father D. I am a member through my employer, they pay part and I pay the balance, which is really what makes it worth while for me.....as well as having a family.
They have 4 options ranging from €2.10, €4.20, €6.30 & €8.40 per week, each option has differing max levels for example option 2 €4.20 - 
GP €50, Dental €100, Optical €100, Consultation €230, Physio €270, Perscriptions €50, etc

For Individual plan members they pay 100% of each bill
For Family members 50% of each bill for each member


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## Slim

*HSA/HSF*

I am a member of HSF, Hospital Saturday Fund, which is based in Ringsend, D4. Benefits are 50% of GP, dentist fees and opthalmic as well up to preset limits. Seems good value as a couple of fillings set me back over €100 last week and €136 last month, so I will get the benefit in dental alone this year and that is not taking into account GP visits.

Slim


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## Murt10

*HSA (not the Health & Safety authority)*

Here is the hoime page of the Hospital Saturday Fund in Ireland. 

[broken link removed] 

As some other posters have said its the best thing since sliced bread. I've been in it for a couple of years now and I find it brilliant. 

It reimburses you, up to a limit, half the total cost of optical and dental expenses incurred by you and your dependents (SP & children) as well as half the cost of Consultant visits. 

You also get a payment when you or your dependents are in patients in hospital (even for Day Case Sugery) or also if they are unluck enough to break a bone. 

There are several schemes you can join. The more expensive the higher the benefits and the more expensive schemes covers a contribution towards the cost of  GP visits. 

You can also get the Sp/Partner to join in their own right and you both get a 50% refund of costs incurred. (100% in total)  Naturally enough it doesn't cover pre-existing conditions.

As someone not covered by the Social Welfare PRSI Dental & Optical schemes just joining the HSF and claiming back for routine dental and optical treatment in my case pays for itself.

You don't have to join via your employer. They are happy to take on people who want to make their own contributions.


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA (not the Health & Safety authority)*

*It reimburses you, up to a limit, half the total cost of optical and dental expenses incurred*

How does it work if one also receives PRSI treatment benefit for dental & optical treatment?

*someone not covered by the Social Welfare PRSI Dental & Optical schemes...*

Just curious - is this because you're self employed or something?


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## Murt10

*HSF*

Clubman

The HSF will only reimburse you for money that you actually pay out. You submit a receipt to them which is returned with your cheque.

(I'm in the Public sector paying reduced PRSI which does not cover Optical & Dental treatment)


Murt


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSF*

Thanks for that info!


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## biggerry

*HSA*

I joined it this year too and find it very good.  

The only thing that I don't like is that you can only return 3 receipts at a time, so if you let them build up, it takes a while to fully claim back.


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## Mazy

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

If a single person (no family) has either

Bupa Essential Plus plan
[broken link removed]

or

VHI Plan B
www.vhihealthcare.com/inf.../index.jsp

Is there any advantage in taking out either of the aforementioned HSA or HSF plans?

Or would either the HSA or HSF plans be "better" than the Bupa or VHI plans (for a single person) ?


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*



> Is there any advantage in taking out either of the aforementioned HSA or HSF plans?



Yep - VHI has a fairly high 'excess' for their outpatient claims (€250, I think), so the cash plans will cover some of the costs before you hit the excess limit. BUPA covers 50% of GP visits, so the cash plans 'fill the gap'. 

In fact, it's possible to make a profit out of a GP visit! If you claim 50% on BUPA, and you claim 100% on HSA (provided you haven't hit your annual ceiling), you get 150% of the GP visit refunded!


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

*VHI has a fairly high 'excess' for their outpatient claims*

So do _BUPA_ as we recently discovered to our dismay - something like €220 individual or €440 family policy. I'll have to re-read the rules booklet again but it looks like the no/€63 excess options on the Essential Plus plan applies to in patient care. Just shows - with insurance you have to read the policy booklet carefully _before_ you take cover out. :\


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## Tommy

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

topic title changed for clarity


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## Mazy

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

Sorry if this is obvious (I'm new to these different plans)

Should the HSA and HSF plans be thought of as an *addition* to the Bupa Essential Plus plan or the VHI Plan B

Are the HSA & HSF not really something which would be taken out *instead* of taking out a Bupa or VHI plan?

(I would be a single applicant with no additional members)


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*



> Are the HSA & HSF not really something which would be taken out *instead* of taking out a Bupa or VHI plan?



Definitely not instead of - the ceilings on HSA & HSF are relatively low and would not cover costs of major surgery or a long hospital stay.


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

The ceiling on BUPA's Essential Plus scheme is c. €6,000 per annum as far as I can make out which isn't a whole lot in terms of medical expenses. I'm coming to the conclusion that health insurance is a bit of a rip-off and not really an absolute necessity unless you need the peace of mind and/or consider yourself to have significant risk factors that may predispose you to needing medical care (e.g. those who smoke or have other risky lifestyle factors, genetic predisposition to or family history or certain illnesses etc.). On this basis I'm considering dropping my cover but maintaining my wife's...


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## Tommy

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

Be very careful if you do so, as public (i.e non private-insured) patients do really get messed around in our system if they need elective treatment or surgery. I know people who have died after spending years on waiting lists for heart bypasses and the like.

Also, I understand that measures are to be introduced that will penalise people who opt out of private health insurance. Apparently, heavy surcharges will apply to people who haven't insured themselves previously if they haven't had insurance (or maintained it) before they reach a certain age.


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## Mazy

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

If the ceiling on BUPA's Essential Plus scheme is c. €6,000 per annum does this *include* stay at hospital and any operations?

If it does, then I don't see how this would be anywhere near what would be required to pay for (as an example) a heart operation?


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## ClubMan

*Re:  Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

Oh - maybe I'm mistaken. On looking at the [broken link removed] again I see the figures €55,000 and €65,000 mentioned. I've never been able to understand the _VHI_ or _BUPA_ contracts so I've never been sure exactly what's covered and to what extent and what's not! Is there no _"VHI/BUPA health insurance contract details for dummies"_ summary available anywhere... :\


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## Mazy

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

Oh yes, I see that myself - it's point 8(g)

I wonder what would happen if someone's expenses were approaching or exceeded these levels; (or the appropriate level with VHI?)

Would Bupa and/or VHI tell the customer/patient, and the patient would then move to a public hospital?

Or would they charge you for the extra?

e.g. If the limit is €55,000 and cost of treatment in hospital and major operation came to €85,000 do you get a bill for €30,000 ??
:eek 
Or do they tell you, so you get a chance to move to a public hospital?


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

*Or do they tell you, so you get a chance to move to a public hospital?*

I very much doubt that this would happen. Usually claims are only processed once treatment is completed but maybe long stays or certain procedures are dealt with differently.


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

I bet the hospital accounts depts are smart enough to keep an eye on long-stay/expensive patients and take action as they come close to their coverage thresholds.

So watch out for the bean-counter coming down to your semi-private room pushing you down the corridor to the public ward


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## Mazy

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

QUOTE:
"Usually claims are only processed once treatment is completed"

Have you ever heard what happens to someone if their hospital treatment exceeded the coverage threshold?

For example, if it exceeded the €55,000 threshold; have you ever heard of someone being given a bill for the excess amount?

It would be a concern receiving treatment in hospital if the claim is only processed afterwards; - for major surgery anyhow.  

I wonder is there a risk of having to pay any excess out of your own pocket?

If there was any chance of this happening, I think many people would like to know they were coming close to their cover threshold so they could skadoodle out of there...


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

*I bet the hospital accounts depts are smart enough to keep an eye on long-stay/expensive patients and take action as they come close to their coverage thresholds.*

I doubt that myself but if anybody has any hard facts it'd be interesting to hear about them.

*Have you ever heard what happens to someone if their hospital treatment exceeded the coverage threshold?*

I haven't anyway.

*I wonder is there a risk of having to pay any excess out of your own pocket?*

I presume there is if there are payment thresholds specified by the insurance cover.

*If there was any chance of this happening, I think many people would like to know they were coming close to their cover threshold so they could skadoodle out of there...*

Money is usually the last thing on one's mind when in hospital! :\


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## Mazy

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

QUOTE:
"Money is usually the last thing on one's mind when in hospital!"

Though if I was a patient I think I would prefer to know if my treatment was approaching or going to exceed the threshold.

Would this not give me the option of moving to a public ward/public hospital, and receiving additional treatment above this threshold free of charge? 
(bar the c.€300/€400 public hospital charge)

It's a bit of a concern as to what would happen as some treatments can be incredibly expensive.  The last thing you would want to have to do after major surgery (for example multiple organ transplant) is have to sell your home...


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## Emerald

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

Tommy, you said before:

"I understand that measures are to be introduced that will penalise people who opt out of private health insurance. Apparently, heavy surcharges will apply to people who haven't insured themselves previously if they haven't had insurance (or maintained it) before they reach a certain age."

Do you mean surcharges might be levied by the state on persons receiving public health care?

Can you elaborate on this at all?


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## Tommy

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

I'm not an expert on this but I understand that the measures will mean that someone who joins VHI or BUPA for the first time at say age 45, 50 or 55 will pay a loading to reflect the higher risk of their age profile and the fact that they did not contribute to the private health insurance system when they were younger, and when their risk profile was lower..

Afaik, it has nothing to do with people receiving public health care. 

If you need to know more, enquire with the Dept of Health or  either of the two private health insurers.


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## ClubMan

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

There's some information about this included in the VHI's response to the white paper on private health insurance published on 16th September 1999 (!) which is available here.


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## Mazy

*HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

ClubMan,

I'm just after re-reading the terms on the Bupa site i.e. item 8(g) which mentioned the €55,000 & €65,000 limits.

[broken link removed]

After reading this again (all of item 8) , I think item 8 actually refers to benefits *not* covered.

At the beginning of item 8 it states:-
"We will not pay benefits for any of the following"

Then at point 8(g) it states:-

"Treatment you receive outside Ireland"

which seems to indicate that the insurance does not cover this, though there are various scenarios in which the insurance will cover treatment received abroad.  These are all listed in 8(g).  

Point 8(g) also goes onto to state:-

******************************************
We will only pay benefits up to an overall total per episode of illness of €55,000 for Essential, Essential Plus and Gold Scheme members and €65,000 for members of the Health Manager scheme for the cost of all treatment 
received outside Ireland each year.  These limits apply to each person per episode of illness. This exclusion or the benefit limits of €55,000 or €65,000 will not apply to treatment that we have agreed you may receive in a BUPA Ireland participating hospital in the UK because the treatment was not available in Ireland. 
******************************************

So, I think this €55,000 / €65,000 threshold only applies to certain treatment received outside Ireland and received in certain circumstances.  As far as I can tell it does not apply to treatment received in Ireland.  

I can't seem to locate any similar threshold for hospital treatment received *in* Ireland.

Can anyone else.....?


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## Mazy

*.*

The above "Smilie" is supposed to be an "8" with a ")" after it.

Not sure where the smilie came from.....!


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## rainyday

*Re: .*

Hi Mazy - Check out the


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## Shanks1

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*



> someone who joins VHI or BUPA for the first time at say age 45, 50 or 55 will pay a loading to reflect the higher risk of their age profile and the fact that they did not contribute to the private health insurance system when they were younger, and when their risk profile was lower..



A bit like motor insurance in reverse then!!


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*



> A bit like motor insurance in reverse then!!



Yeah - What's the odds that most actuaries are over 45? Ensuring that they get the best rates for health insurance & car insurance!


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## smiler

*re: dental cover*

I intend having cosmetic dentistry to the value of €2000 done in the future. Is it worthwhile joining up with HSA or HSF for this alone?


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## ClubMan

*Re: re: dental cover*

For what it's worth such treatment may qualify for [broken link removed].


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## rainyday

*Re: re: dental cover*



> Is it worthwhile joining up with HSA or HSF for this alone



The HSA coverage ceilings are quite low in each cover area (€100-€200), so it is unlikely that it would be worthwhile joining just to cover some dentistry. But if you have your dentistry expenses, plus a few GP visits, plus a few perscriptions, plus a consultant visit, it is likely that it would be worth your while joining. 

I don't know the HSF coverage, so I can't really comment on this. I'm not certain that HSA covers cosmetic procedures (dentistry or otherwise) so you should double-check before proceeding.


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## Janet

*Re: re: dental cover*

Can anyone explain how this works when you also have VHI?  For example if you had mountains of GP bills, enough to have exceeded the threshold of your VHI plan and allow you to claim money back.  Do VHI then look at money you have already received back from HSA and deduct that amount from what they will give you? 

Have decided to go for HSA anyway as it will cover getting new glasses and will cover some dental treatment I am likely to need in the next year or so.  And they'll pay for chiropody and physio or acupuncture regardless of whether you're referred by your GP.  Have to wait and get the actual policy booklet to read the small print but so far I've been impressed with their customer service on the phone.   And I can start claiming immediately (for everything except maternity) if necessary which is a big plus imo.


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## vidapura

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

This is a very interesting discussion lads.
I too am wondering which way to go with health plans.
I'm 37 and a director (so paying reduced PRSI, so don't qualify for dental help etc)
I'm healthy, but smoke, and participate in a few 'dangerous' sports like windsurfing, sailing, diving etc...

I don't have any pressing medical needs, but have a good bit of dental work I could do.

So I was looking at the HSA/HSF ideas as they might pay for the dental.. whearas the others (bupa, vhi) don't ...(am i right?)

But I'm worried that the HSA/HSF plans are not 'real' health plans.. in the sense that they would not cover me for a long term illness ( I dunno, cancer say)... If I did end up in hospital I'd want to be able to have a private room and all that... (but would I end up on a trolley in a corridor anyway?)

So my question is really.. which way should I go..Doing both sounds expensive (Looks to me like 500 a year for Bupa and 500 for, say, HSF) so I'd want to pick one or the other..

Any advice greatly appreciated!


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## rainyday

*Re: HSA / HSF / Bupa / VHI*

HSA/HSF are not a replacement for BUPA/VHI. They have very low cover thresholds, usually a few hundred quid per annum in each category. If you hit a major health problem which generates large hospital bills, they will not really help you. Have a look at their websites and work out how much you'd expect to claim each year - see if it is worth your while.


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## shazer

*HSA Hospital Cash Plans*

hi all,
need advice from those of you who are currently with HSF. Is it worth it?? Living in Dublin, I am married with 2 small kids, I work full time with sickness cover at work. We have good plans with VHI and also life assurance with critical illness. There is also the med 1 form and drugs repayment scheme from social welfare. Do I need this additional insurance cover?


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## ajapale

See here HSA transfer Irish Business to HSF


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