# Renters put up dish on block without permisson.



## ryan-neil (30 Aug 2007)

Hi,

I live in an apartment block of only 8 apartments, four been rented, the owners are the managment company, as such anyway yesterday i came home to find a dish had been erected on the block without permisson by said renter and against the rules of the block. 

My gf thinks i am been anal about it but since there is already one rusty dish up from other renters, they are now both been asked to remove there dishes. 


The issue is that they never sought permission to mount these dishes, just turned up and drilled holes in the red brick of the block and stuck up there dishes. 

GF thinks i am been anal as they are Polish and its the only way they can get Polish TV. 

I am of the opinion that they should have checked first. Polish or not. What do you think and what is the best way to approach it, we were approaching the owners of the apartments first.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

You mean the management company rules dictate that there should be no dishes? Then it's up to the management company (maybe via their agent) to enforce the rules. They probably need to contact the landlord owner of the apartment. We have the same rules and the management company (via the agent) has sent circulars reminding people of them but some people still have dishes (in particular at the front of the properties also in breach of planning rules as far as I know) but nothing has been done about them. Doesn't bother me too much but the rules will only work if people abide by them or where they don't somebody enforces them.


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## jhegarty (30 Aug 2007)

Unless there is some issue here that affacts you (blocking your view/light) I would agree with your gf.....


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## ryan-neil (30 Aug 2007)

I just think it looks crap, after a year they will be gone and they will leave four bolt holes in the wall which i'm sure they won't bother sealing. Had they asked they could have been directed a suitable area that is hidden from view behind storage sheds.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

Contact the management company/agent and ask them to deal with it.


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## U2Fan (30 Aug 2007)

I live in a similar neighbourhood and the property management company try to enforce the "no dishes" rule, personally I have nothing against them and have one myself (although in a detatched house), and do not think that satellite dishes, a new facet of everyday life in Ireland, just like aerials many years ago, are eyesores at all. Just my personal opinion. But renters should have the common courtesy to check with owners in advance.


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## Towger (30 Aug 2007)

Just tell them they will be fined/sent to jail, as only one dish is allowed without planning : [broken link removed]


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## galwaytt (30 Aug 2007)

I agree with the gf...........if this sort of retentiveness continues to proliferate, you'd better plan on working without.............mobile phones, electricity, water, refuse removal and processing etc etc., the list goes on.

When the ESB first brought electicity to Ireland, they put in a single cable, overland, on the outside of your house, down the wall, through the to a single switch for a single light.      Imagine if current mentality prevailed then, no ESB would have been delivered (unsightly  ) and we'd all be growing..........mushrooms......


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

galwaytt said:


> I agree with the gf...........if this sort of retentiveness continues to proliferate, you'd better plan on working without.............mobile phones, electricity, water, refuse removal and processing etc etc., the list goes on.
> 
> When the ESB first brought electicity to Ireland, they put in a single cable, overland, on the outside of your house, down the wall, through the to a single switch for a single light.      Imagine if current mentality prevailed then, no ESB would have been delivered (unsightly  ) and we'd all be growing..........mushrooms......


Interesting rant but not really that helpful especially in the context of this situation where (a) the private management company has rules about such matters (i.e. not just the original poster being a crank) and (b) the likelyhood that planning permission is also an issue.


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## galwaytt (30 Aug 2007)

may well be, so a more constructive address to the OP's question would to leave the situation as-is.   It's not causing any harm to anyone, only to the OP's sensibilities.


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## sydthebeat (30 Aug 2007)

galwaytt said:


> ......and we'd all be growing..........mushrooms......



we would, only Mary outlawed them...


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

galwaytt said:


> may well be, so a more constructive address to the OP's question would to leave the situation as-is.   It's not causing any harm to anyone, only to the OP's sensibilities.


On the other hand if he chooses not to then he has the management company rules and maybe even planning regulations on his side.


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## ubiquitous (30 Aug 2007)

In general it is a good idea to minimise conflict with one's neighbours and tolerance of minor annoyances can pay dividends in terms of avoiding hassle and bother in the long run.


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## ClubMan (30 Aug 2007)

Yes - that's why I suggested more than once that the original poster let the management company deal with this issue.


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## Bubbly Scot (30 Aug 2007)

I agree with ClubMan. Contact the management company (or agent if you have one). It's up to the management company to enforce the rule and the agent (if any) will carry out their instructions.

As an agent in this industry I sometimes get called upon to enforce this rule, putting my personal thoughts to one side.

Just to let you know though, it's a hard one to enforce and some management companies baulk at the thought of anything more than a letter being sent out.


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## Cyberbams (30 Aug 2007)

We got them taken down where I used to live.  Notices got sent out by the Management Company with a defined period by which they had to be taken down and if not the Man. Co. took them down.  You have to abide by the rules you sign up to in an apt. community - otherwise everything just deteriorates.  Tolerance can be another word for apathy in some situations.  Give folks and inch and they will take a mile.  Nip it in the bud, I say.


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## Guest121 (31 Aug 2007)

It's quite simple whether you agree with it or not it should be taken down UNLESS you bring it up at the AGM of the Management Co in an attempt to change the rules.

From a personal point of view they don't bother me at all. However as it stands your Management Co more than likely does not allow them, there's a number of reasons for this...

1. The Management Co OWNS the outside of the building, not your neighbour therefore your neighbour has no right to damage property that does not belong to him/her.

2. Many people complain it's unsightly.

3. If satellite dishes are allowed then what's next that could be tacked onto the outside of a building, or could larger holes be drilled for something else?

4. I'm told that there can be damage to the outside of a structure due to satellite dishes being put up and holes drilled in the structure.

Where I live NTL won't even put extra points in people's units as they have to drill a small hole in the wall!!! Also, people were made take down Dublin flags from their balcony's!!!


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## ClubMan (31 Aug 2007)

bobbysands81 said:


> However as it stands your Management Co more than likely does not allow them


More than more than likely...


ryan-neil said:


> a dish had been erected on the block without permisson by said renter and against the rules of the block.


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## JoeB (31 Aug 2007)

I can understand rules being rules but why do people sign over their freedom when they buy into an apartment block, (more so a semi private estate)? There are many stupid rules in my opinion, I have heard of estates where there are no commercial vehicles allowed, no clothes drying on balconies, no dishes... in my opinion people should be free to dry clothes on balconies.... even if some people say it looks bad.

How can they make a rule saying no commercial vehicles?, are the roads private or public? If public then they (Mang. Com.) have no control over them, if private you can drive without tax and insurance, it seems the local councils must be attempting to find a middle way, probably illegal in my moderately informed opinion. In any case it seems that central government has prohibited new semi private estates and stupid planning restrictions as being illegal but nothing has changed. What I am referring to is the refusal of many councils to take new estates 'in charge' and refusing to provide services to them, this creates a two tier society.

BobbySands81 says that people were made take down Dublin flags from balconies, what's next? No Dublin coloured wallpaper behind your windows which is viewable from outside? No painting the inside of your window panes if you so choose? Who chooses what is acceptable?, a majority view of the management company?

Obviously as far as the OP goes the rule is in place, just report the breach and wait for action to be taken... if I was unlucky enough to live in a totalatarian apartment block I would seek to find like minded individuals and take over the management company and change the rules.

Rant over, this country is a joke, tee hee.

Cheers
Joe


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## ryan-neil (31 Aug 2007)

I would find the no commercials rule stupid to be honest and i have no problem with people hanging a flag out for a game or during the championship etc. As for clothes on banconies ive no issue either once there kept on the balconey, if people start using the balcony as a clothes horse i would have an issue. Ive seen the security railings around another block near mine used by a indian women for drying her clothers, doesn't look nice to see two double sheets and a large mat hanging from the railings. What i find worse is she hangs them on her neighbours side not her own. That building has four seperate dishs and white cables all over it and it looks tatty at best.

The reason i personally reacted so strongly over the dish is that within 3 days of moving in they have the area outside my front door and theres covered in 20+ cig butts and were then errecting a dish.


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## Bill Struth (31 Aug 2007)

Agree completely with JoeB. It's a stupid rule. I lived in an apartment where a sky dish remained from a previous tenant. someone complained about the dish, and I got a letter from mgt company. I told the landlord, he said ignore it, and a year later I still hadn't heard from them again!


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## Leo (31 Aug 2007)

Folks, could you take the rants over to Letting Off Steam?
Leo


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## ClubMan (31 Aug 2007)

JoeBallantin said:


> I can understand rules being rules but why do people sign over their freedom when they buy into an apartment block, (more so a semi private estate)? There are many stupid rules in my opinion, I have heard of estates where there are no commercial vehicles allowed, no clothes drying on balconies, no dishes... in my opinion people should be free to dry clothes on balconies.... even if some people say it looks bad.


If residents of privately managed estates/developments are faced with rules that they do not like then they should (a) not buy there in the first place or (b) work towards getting the rules changed by beciming active in the management company, raising proposals for rule changes at _AGMs _etc.


> How can they make a rule saying no commercial vehicles?, are the roads private or public?


Very often the roads in such developments are vested in the management company so are private.


> In any case it seems that central government has prohibited new semi private estates


Can you link to info about this please?


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## JoeB (31 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Very often the roads in such developments are vested in the management company so are private.



Ok, so that would seem to suggest that normal road traffic legislation doesn't apply.. i.e no tax and insurance required, children can drive, drink driving can only be prosecuted under a general charge like endangering life or carrying on a dangerous activity... banned people can drive and the police would need permission or to form an opinion of illegal activity in order to enter. Also cars need not be roadworthy, no lights required, no seatbelts etc etc. If a crash occurs on such roads I can see the situation descending into chaos.
If the roads are indeed private some of the above issues will end up in the courts... this is what I meant when I said the councils may be attempting to find a 'middle' way of semi private and semi public. 

On the issue of central government writing to councils telling them they must not refuse to take new estates 'in charge' I can't find a link at the moment, I do remember hearing something about this on a show like 'The Last Word' on Today FM, maybe another poster can find a link?.

Cheers
Joe


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## ClubMan (31 Aug 2007)

JoeBallantin said:


> Ok, so that would seem to suggest that normal road traffic legislation doesn't apply.. i.e no tax and insurance required, children can drive, drink driving can only be prosecuted under a general charge like endangering life or carrying on a dangerous activity... banned people can drive and the police would need permission or to form an opinion of illegal activity in order to enter. Also cars need not be roadworthy, no lights required, no seatbelts etc etc. If a crash occurs on such roads I can see the situation descending into chaos.


Are you sure that any of those activities are allowed on other forms of private property - e.g. hotel or supermarket car parks etc.? I don't think so myself.


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## JoeB (31 Aug 2007)

To be honest I'm not sure... I am pretty sure that you could do any of those things in your own driveway, if your driveway was 500m long you could have a nice little drive on it.

I'd imagine you couldn't be prosecuted for driving without insurance or tax in a supermarket or hotel carpark. Drink driving is different as potentially you could be said to be putting your own life at risk, hence possibly you could be charged with something although not under the road traffic legislation.

I have started a new thread in the 'Legal' forum on these issues so we can debate it over there, I am quite interested in what people think. 
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=479799

Cheers
Joe
P.S sorry for hijacking the thread.


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## gebbel (31 Aug 2007)

ryan-neil said:


> ......as they are Polish and its the only way they can get polish tv, i am of the opinion that they should have checked first. Polish or not. What do you think and what is the best way to approch it, we were approching the owners of the apartments first.


 
Look, if the satellite dish is bothering you so much, then you can go to the management company and complain. However, I am sure that the rules (if there are any in relation to the installation of satellite dishes, which like other posters I doubt) were not explained fully to them. But ask yourself do you really want to deny them this?? For them, polish TV is essential as it keeps them in touch with the news at home etc.

Let them keep it


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## brodiebabe (1 Sep 2007)

Ryan-Neil

If you really feel that strongly about just go to the management company and see what they say.

I don't know if the extra information that the people in question are polish was relevant and also did you really have to point out that it was an Indian lady that was hanging clothes on the railing?  What was the point in indicating that these people were foreign?  Would you have found it acceptable if they were Irish?


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## europhile (1 Sep 2007)

It's simple.  Look at all the blocks around which don't have any dishes.  How do they manage?

They warn the offenders that if they don't take the dish down that the management company will hire a  cherry picker, remove the dish and bill the apartment owner.  Problem solved.


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## ryan-neil (1 Sep 2007)

My point re them being polish was that for an Irish person unless they want Sky, chorus is enough as it allows us to recieve our channels, in terms of keeping in touch i don't agree, you dont need 100 polish language channels to feel in touch, in fact my girlfriend is polish and while she doesnt agree about the dishes she does agree that polsat tv is not a necessity for keeping touch, you can buy polish/foreign language papers  papers from several shops and the internet is available to them also if they want. The indian women the point was made because she was the only one i seen doing it, indian or not she is the only person using security railings as a clothes line. Also i felt that maybe as they were polish they may have been unable to read the block rules included in there lease due to language issues.

They built nice red brick blocks of only four apts that look like houses and they take away from them by putting up dishes and white cables all over them, also what about other owners who want to sell but have buyers put off them by these dishes. One apt has two dishes on the side of the apt, sky and another one on the side of the building facing a main road. 

Apartments are small self contained communities and people shouldn't be allowed to act freely with respect to common areas and property, i would love a skylight in my attic but the roof belongs to the managment company so i don't put one in even though only i can access the attic from my apt.


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## ClubMan (1 Sep 2007)

So have you raised the issue with your management company/agent yet?


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## ryan-neil (1 Sep 2007)

Hi,

We have no managment agent, two residents arrange everything and they have agreed to raise it with the owners of the apt,

Neil


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## tablesalt (1 Sep 2007)

So the issue isn't a dish then, but cigarette butts? I would agree with your gf. Not many people read all the rules when they rent a property. They probably didnt even know that there might be an issue. In their country they dont need to seek permission, so thought probably never even entered their head.
As for cigarette butts, I agree, its annoying and disrespectful to those who clean. But I think its nice to be nice. Most of polish people are very nice and you could just nicely ask. Instead of going behind their back and complain about something that doesnt affect you.


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## ontour (1 Sep 2007)

Why should you feel bad about trying to protect that value of your investment. It is not your fault if people do not investigate the rules of a development before moving in. If an apartment owner reckons that their apartment will be worth more if they allow satellite dishes, then bring it to a meeting. The fact is that majority of owners do not want dishes and majority rules in group managed developments.

On the commercial vehicle issue raised, we have had this issue of people parking lwb vans and artic rigs. The parking is not made for these size vehicles and they block cameras and deteriorate security/safety. And again they are against the rules people sign up for.

I reckon there is a more interesting discussion regarding drying clothes on the balcony due to the obvious environmental benefit over tumble dryers..but that would be a discussion to have at a management company AGM !

So the best thing to do is enforce all the rules and treat everyone equally. If there is sufficient will to change those rules owners can bring it to EGM/ AGM.


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## Leo (4 Sep 2007)

JoeBallantin said:


> Ok, so that would seem to suggest that normal road traffic legislation doesn't apply.. i.e no tax and insurance required, children can drive...


 
Road traffic offences can be prosecuted on private property to which the public are admitted.


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