# Mediation process with the Ombudsman following removal of tracker



## Dan Murray (6 Jan 2018)

Firstly, apologies if this has been covered before. I did a search and couldn't find a thread on this.

My query relates to the experience of those who have gone through a mediation process with banks and the FSO. What I'd really like to know is:

- How did you find the process overall?
- Was there anything that surprised you?
- If someone was preparing for the process, is there anything specific that he should do?
- What was the attitude of the bank (did they play hard-ball or were the more conciliatory? did they engage in brinkmanship? threaten to abandon the talks, etc.)
- How well was the meeting facilitated/mediated?
- How long did it last?
- Was it stressful?
- Did you go alone (with your spouse/partner) or did you have a professional advisor present?
- How legalistic does it get?
- Basically - any general advice would be appreciated.

The reason for asking all these questions is that it seems to me that the banks are very familiar with the process whereas the poor client is in a very unfamiliar environment and it would be good if clients could share their experiences for their common good.


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## notabene (6 Jan 2018)

Previously the banks would refuse to go to mediation as it was voluntary. As far as I know Ger Deering during his term, has tried to change the process so that they have to go to mediation now and face their customers. The process through the Ombudsman's office is a quasi legal process. 

I would absolutely advise you to bring someone with you whether it be a lay person or professional advisor. I would also say to be as prepared a you possibly can be - further than that I can't really comment as in my own case, the bank refused mediation.


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## Gerard123 (6 Jan 2018)

Agree with last OP. Be careful. In my experience the FSO process was a joke.  He was in the pockets of the banks. It may have changed since, but once bitten........


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## robert 200 (7 Jan 2018)

Hi Dan ,
I am surprised you didn't get answers to your questions. I have a mediation meeting with the FSO and AIB on Wednesday 24th January - I will answer all your questions on 25th Jan.


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## Dan Murray (8 Jan 2018)

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies.

I agree with your comments and particularly share Robert's surprise that nobody that has gone through the process has come forward. Did folk who have gone through the process have to commit to a confidentiality agreement or something? If yes, that would be unfair as it would just perpetuate the uneven playing field. If no such gagging order exists, then hopefully there will be some folk out there in a position to assist others?


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## Lightening (8 Jan 2018)

If Robert200 gets back to you on the 25th Jan that will be your answer.


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## peteb (8 Jan 2018)

I would say the majority of average Joe's refuse mediation.  My take on it was when the FSO asked was "well the bank are simply replying that trackers dont exist any more as opposed to realising their obligation under their own contract, why would i think that is suddenly going to change when i get into a room with them".  And the officer i was writing to in the FSO acknowledged that.


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## SaySomething (8 Jan 2018)

I'm going to respond to each below. However, my original FSO complaint did not relate to my tracker mortgage. My experiences however are certainly relevant.


Dan Murray said:


> - How did you find the process overall? _Wearying and frustrating._
> - Was there anything that surprised you? _How much leeway the FSO gave the bank. E.g. the FSO would set a deadline, the day of the deadline the bank would write to the FSO with some issue requesting extra time. The FSO would give in to whatever they required. This happened on quite a few occasions. I actually wrote to the FSO about this at the time._
> - If someone was preparing for the process, is there anything specific that he should do? _Make your own data access request to the bank in advance so you have all your information to hand._
> - What was the attitude of the bank (did they play hard-ball or were the more conciliatory? did they engage in brinkmanship? threaten to abandon the talks, etc.) _They refused to enter mediation, no matter how many times I requested a face-to-face meeting. Point blank. They made a number of offers during the process and put time limits on these offers._
> ...



Overall though, there were serious issues with how my complaint was handled as a whole by the FSO. I've received a response to my complaint about how it was handled. I would have concerns about going down the FSO route to resolve the tracker issue. You need to be 100% sure that this will bring closure to your complaint if you can't take the risk of a possible appeal to the High Court. Definitely get legal advice before you go down this road.


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## Dan Murray (8 Jan 2018)

SaySomething said:


> I'm going to respond to each below.....



Thanks SaySomething - So they refused mediation - when was this as a matter of interest?


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## elcato (8 Jan 2018)

The bank refused any mediation with me in 2010. The FSO subsequently found against me.


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## SaySomething (8 Jan 2018)

The bank refused mediation with me in 2013-2014. The FSO found that while the bank had not breached regulations, they were morally wrong in their treatment of me. Therefore, they instructed the bank to pay me a sum of compensation that they had offered prior to FSO final ruling.

Technically it's regarded as an unsuccessful complaint as my complaint was not upheld, or even partially upheld. It took over 10 months from the date at which I made my complaint until the FSO made a ruling. It took a further 6 months for the bank to pay the compensation sum, which required further intervention from the FSO.


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## elcato (8 Jan 2018)

I should clarify that my case concluded the same as SaySomethings above although a slightly different reason given for the outcome.


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## nonie (8 Jan 2018)

In my case the bank refused to mediate. The FSO partially upheld my complaint but ultimately did not return my tracker. I believe the FSO worked in favour of the bank.


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## notabene (8 Jan 2018)

In my case as mentioned in my previous answer I agreed to mediation but the bank refused, this was in October 2012. However, I understand that this was a common practice in the banks, particularly as they knew that in most cases they would win at adjudication so why bother going to mediation.

Similar to @SaySomething I would have reservations about the whole FSO process after my experience. It took from September 2012 to December of 2014 for the whole process to conclude. There were periods of up to 6months where I heard nothing from the FSO. I've head anecdotaly at the moment that they have an 18month+ wait.

@SaySomething is also correct in that your only recourse is the high court if you are subsequently unhappy with an FSO finding. In my own case, while the FSO upheld my complaint, they did not at the time return my tracker despite agreeing in the findings that the mortgage should have defaulted to the tracker rate upon the expiration of the fixed rate. They paid compensation but as it later turned out this was not a calculated figure and one off the top of their head. There has been disparity over similar cases and their awards.

When further information came to light as a result of a data request a year later, I met with Ger Deering ( it's fair to mention he was not the ombudsman who presided over my case) but though he knew the decision in my case wasn't sound as it were his hands were tied without a court case being taken. He told me he felt that forcing banks into mediation would pull them into line....though I'm not so sure about that myself

When an adjudication is made you have only 21 days in which to appeal the decision to the high court or not.


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## Dan Murray (8 Jan 2018)

nonie said:


> I believe the FSO worked in favour of the bank.



Ouch! There seems to be a common theme here in relation to the FSO.

Just to avoid doubt, were the cases mentioned to date with the former FSO? Is it possible that since Ger Deering's appointment, the FSO is more consumer friendly in both the general service and decisions? Thoughts?


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## SaySomething (9 Jan 2018)

My case certainly was dealt with by the previous FSO.
I've reviewed the 2016 report from the FSO (2017 will be a while yet). The new mediation/adjudication process seems to increase the number of satisfied closed complaints. However when they go to full review by the FSO I think that the percentage upheld is still at a similar rate.


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## robert 200 (9 Jan 2018)

As previously stated I am attending a mediation session on 24th January . Could anyone advise who I should ask to accompany me? I have been informed by FSO that 3 bank officials
will be present.


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## nonie (9 Jan 2018)

My case was under the former Ombudsman 2013/2014 however a number of the same decision makers are still place. At the time I was of the mistaken belief that they were working on behalf of the consumer... How wrong I was and how my family have paid for that...


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## demoivre (9 Jan 2018)

notabene said:


> There were periods of up to 6months where I heard nothing from the FSO. I've head anecdotaly at the moment that they have an 18month+ wait.



What, 18 months to deal with a complaint lodged with them ?


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## SaySomething (10 Jan 2018)

@demoivre and longer depending on the complaint. They say that if you go for mediation it can be completed within 6 months but full adjudication is prolonged.


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## EbsLoannotrafor (10 Jan 2018)

If you are to complain regarding the Fso and the process , who do you complain to ?
Surely there is an external body one can complain to if unsatisfactory fso process. Is there European group which has oversight of all fso s in Europe or equivalent ? Too easy for the bank if they know the fso on there side ( country too small ) . Suggest complain to such a group , they might sit up then . The more I hear of this, I wonder should the central bank and fso not have external European group ( European bank ? , other ?world bank ?) validating their decisions in this area .


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## SaySomething (11 Jan 2018)

There is nobody to complain to if you're unhappy with the FSO. You can appeal their finding to the High Court. That's pretty much it I've found.


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## Urn (11 Jan 2018)

I faired better mediating with the bank myself and got a better outcome than i did through mediation with the FSO involved.  In saying that, it was the complaint submitted to the FSO that brought the bank to the table in the first instance.  The better outcome came separately when I opted to proceed to adjudication and dealt with the bank outside the FSO complaint.

My issues were not tracker related though.  

All cases are subject to a confidentiality clause.

To sum up, I felt the FSO are still very much on the banks side, felt pressured by FSO to accept their first offering even though it was in no way reasonable.


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## robert 200 (11 Jan 2018)

Thank you for that. Can you advise who I should ask to accompany me to Mediation? I have been informed that there will be 3 bank officials


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## Urn (11 Jan 2018)

I met them on my own, was two bank officials.  You could bring a solicitor or a family member.  I expect no solution will be offered on the spot so there won't be any decision to make and just be clear and prepared and set out the facts of you case


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## Dan Murray (25 Jan 2018)

robert 200 said:


> Hi Dan ,
> I am surprised you didn't get answers to your questions. I have a mediation meeting with the FSO and AIB on Wednesday 24th January - I will answer all your questions on 25th Jan.



Hi Robert,

I hope yesterday went well - if you get the chance to share any info, that would be great.


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## robert 200 (25 Jan 2018)

Hi Dan ,
Before the meeting started, I signed a confidentiality agreement which I intend to honour. I brought a friend with me who knows all my affairs. It was conducted in a very professional manner
and a fair outcome was achieved by both parties . I would strongly recommend this procedure. I wish you well.


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