# I have a tenant renting for 2 and 1/2 years. She has not paid for July or August.



## Aoife34 (30 Sep 2008)

I have a tenant renting for 2 and 1/2 years. She has not paid for July or August. She refused to answer the door when i called up and did not answer the phone either. I posted a letter just over two weeks ago and when i went back up after the two weeks, she still has no intentions of moving out, where do i go from here? Do i have the right to enter the house and remove her things?


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## MrMan (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

Ensure absolutely everything is sent to her in writing. 

If you haven't done so already give her written notice that she must vacate the premises in the correct notice period. 

Check threshold and prtb websites to ensure that you follow everything to the letter of the law. 

Unfortunately this is a grey area that tenants can abuse and you are doomed to suffer at least another 6 weeks of lost rent.


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## jackbetal (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

Your tenant has broken the contract. Also by their refusal to reply to your contact attempt then you then have to act as the reasonable person within the rules of the law. A reasonable person would not be acting wrongly to enter the premises. How else are you to know whether the premises have not been vacated considering the tenant is not paying rent and refusing to communicate with you.


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## Lollix (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

Whatever you do, don't waste any time. Get moving on the legals right away and get her out as fast as you can. Even if she subsequently comes up with the rent, lose her -- she'll be nothing but trouble in the long run.
Do you have a deposit and/or a guarantor for outstanding bills?


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## Aoife34 (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

She provided a deposit upfront, so that will cover july, i have had to pay the August rent and will have to pay the September one too!! She is claiming rent allowance but i am not seeing any of it. She has informed me she is on a list for a house and she will be moving out, but i don't know when and she wont pay what she owes.


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## mathepac (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Aoife34 said:


> ... i have had to pay the August rent and will have to pay the September one too!! ...



Are you a letting agent or a landlord?


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## Aoife34 (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

I am a landlord. The tenant phone me and called me racist after i issued her the lnotification letter, and told me she was getting a house soon anyway and wasn't going to be around much longer


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## Murt10 (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*

I remember reading in the Sunday Indo earlier this year, about one of our former Ministers who was having problems with a tenant who, for some reason stopped paying him rent. (The story wasn't available online)

As far as I remember, he went round and evicted her. 

She sued him through the PRTB. They found in her favour and was she awarded damages. However, the damages she was awarded were less than the amount of rent owing, and as she owed him back rent, he was entitled to deduct from her damages the back rent due, so the Minister in fact didn't have to pay her anything. 

So it seems that while his actions may have been illegal, our former Minister managed to keep his losses to a minimum.



Murt


Murt


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## jackbetal (30 Sep 2008)

You are getting messed around here big time. To stop the rent and try to avoid you is taking the mick and then to call you what I would consider to be a very offensive name like a racist is just taking the biscuit. 
Get into your house and move her out straight away. If she takes legal action then you will on what you have said already be in a very good position. This is obviously causing you stress so get to your GP and have it documented. Then make sure you have everything else documented also. Things like when she stopped paying, her lack of communication, her name calling and exactly what she said on occasions (like I will be out of here soon once I get another house). Who does she think she is kidding??

Where in the country are you?? How many in the house with her?? I might have spare time to assist you.


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## Steve D (30 Sep 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Aoife34 said:


> She provided a deposit upfront, so that will cover july, i have had to pay the August rent and will have to pay the September one too!!


 
You say that you had to pay the August and Sept rent...who to? If you are the landlord, I do not understand this statement unless you have rented this property and are now sub-letting it to this tenant.


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## mathepac (1 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Steve D said:


> You say that you had to pay the August and Sept rent...who to? If you are the landlord, I do not understand this statement unless you have rented this property and are now sub-letting it to this tenant.


ditto


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## becky (1 Oct 2008)

I think she means because she had to cover the mortgage herself she feels she's actually paying the rent.

I did find it strange that a tenant would suddenly decide not to pay rent after 2 and 1/2 years.  

Makes me glad to be a renter rather then a landlord. 

I really am a dream tenant I see rent as one of the first things I have to pay.


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## MrMan (1 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Steve D said:


> You say that you had to pay the August and Sept rent...who to? If you are the landlord, I do not understand this statement unless you have rented this property and are now sub-letting it to this tenant.



Are you being pedantic or can you not grasp what she is saying?


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## Steve D (2 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



MrMan said:


> Are you being pedantic or can you not grasp what she is saying?


 
Neither! 

She said 
"i have had to *pay the August* *rent* and will have to pay the September one too!!"

If she says that she paid "rent" then who has she paid it to? She could be sub-letting. 

If she says that she has paid "rent" but actually means something else, then who knows what she is talking about? We are not mind readers! 

Perhaps she may have intended to say that she had to cover the mortgage but she did not say that. It is always best not to make assumptions when details are not precise like this because assumptions are often wrong.


If you were a financial advisor, an accountant or a lawyer, you would want to know all the facts and you would not give any advice based on wild assumptions about a client's circumstances.


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## bugler (2 Oct 2008)

Some very dodgy advice being given here. If you go into the house and throw her stuff out or change the locks, they may take a PRTB case against you. And they will win, as it will be deemed an illegal eviction.

The PRTB apparently fast-tracks (which still probably isn't that fast) cases involving illegal eviction. 

I vaguely recall the case mentioned above about an ex-minister, but didn't note the settlement. It doesn't seem to me that any fine against a Landlord for illegal eviction could be so small to allow it to be worthwhile, otherwise illegal evictions would become a viable method for landlords. It seems to me the PRTB would want to discourage this practice. 

I'd serve written notice of eviction and then hopefully she will go. But before you do anything hands on as some are suggesting think very, very carefully. It's an unfortunate situation for you and the PRTB are too slow, but you may end up worse off in the long run.


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## alaskaonline (2 Oct 2008)

jep give her a written notice, make sure you state 56 days on it (as this is the termination time you have to give her by law) and make sure you send it by registered post.


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## MrMan (2 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Steve D said:


> Neither!
> 
> She said
> "i have had to *pay the August* *rent* and will have to pay the September one too!!"
> ...



Wild assumption taken from post #7 





> I am a landlord.


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## Murt10 (2 Oct 2008)

bugler said:


> Some very dodgy advice being given here. If you go into the house and throw her stuff out or change the locks, they may take a PRTB case against you. And they will win, as it will be deemed an illegal eviction.
> 
> The PRTB apparently fast-tracks (which still probably isn't that fast) cases involving illegal eviction.
> 
> I vaguely recall the case mentioned above about an ex-minister, but didn't note the settlement. It doesn't seem to me that any fine against a Landlord for illegal eviction could be so small to allow it to be worthwhile, otherwise illegal evictions would become a viable method for landlords. It seems to me the PRTB would want to discourage this practice.





Here are the details of the case in qyestion from the PRTB website





Murt


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## DeeFox (2 Oct 2008)

As the tenant is claiming rent allowance can anything be gained from contacting the Local Authority?  This money is given to her as rent and she is clearly using it for something else so shouldn't "that line of credit" be stopped immediately?


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## minion (5 Oct 2008)

DeeFox said:


> As the tenant is claiming rent allowance can anything be gained from contacting the Local Authority?  This money is given to her as rent and she is clearly using it for something else so shouldn't "that line of credit" be stopped immediately?



You can demand that the cheque be made out to you when you contact the local authority.  i would send the her a letter telling her that unless your rent is paid you will go to the local authority who will most likely then remove her from the housing list as an unacceptable risk    see what she thinks of that.


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## ajapale (5 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Aoife34 said:


> ... i have had to pay the August rent and will have to pay the September one too!...



I cant understand this. If you are the landlord why on earth are you paying the rent? And who are you paying?...yourself?


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## Steve D (5 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



ajapale said:


> I cant understand this. If you are the landlord why on earth are you paying the rent? And who are you paying?...yourself?


 
Exactly, this is what I have been asking but still have not got an answer. One poster even thought it was pendatic to ask this!


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## Complainer (5 Oct 2008)

minion said:


> i would send the her a letter telling her that unless your rent is paid you will go to the local authority who will most likely then remove her from the housing list as an unacceptable risk    see what she thinks of that.


She might well think 'Great - now I can add slander and breach of privacy to my claim against the landlord'.


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## bamboozle (6 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



Steve D said:


> Exactly, this is what I have been asking but still have not got an answer. One poster even thought it was pendatic to ask this!


 
is it not obvious she's talking about her mortgage on her investment property?


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## Steve D (6 Oct 2008)

*Re: Tenant not paying rent*



bamboozle said:


> is it not obvious she's talking about her mortgage on her investment property?


 
Not exactly...she could be sub-letting.


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## doll2824 (6 Oct 2008)

minion said:


> You can demand that the cheque be made out to you when you contact the local authority. i would send the her a letter telling her that unless your rent is paid you will go to the local authority who will most likely then remove her from the housing list as an unacceptable risk  see what she thinks of that.


 

the landloard CANNOT demand this by the local authority.Im on ra and the person is given the choice.persoally i would write a letter giving her 4 weeks to move out,keep a copy for yourself and get a p.p from the post office or send it registred.if she hasnt moved out in your time frame then to cover your butt i'd inform the gards of your intensions.
Best of luck.


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## minion (7 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> She might well think 'Great - now I can add slander and breach of privacy to my claim against the landlord'.



Please ponit out the slander.  you wont be telling the local authority anything that does not concern them or that is not the truth.


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## minion (7 Oct 2008)

doll2824 said:


> the landloard CANNOT demand this by the local authority.Im on ra and the person is given the choice.



Not true. the landlord can phone the lc and make the ra cheque being paid into their account a condition of the tenancy.  If you were given a choice it was because the landlord had no preference.


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## Complainer (7 Oct 2008)

minion said:


> Please ponit out the slander.  you wont be telling the local authority anything that does not concern them or that is not the truth.


The local authority has no involvement in rent allowance or rent supplement. Rent allowance is 
administered by DSFA.  Rent supplement [/quote] is administered by the HSE on behalf of DSFA. In both cases, payments are made directly to the tenant.

So any letter written to the local authority would be a breach of privacy.

You might be getting mixed up with the [URL="http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/local-authority-and-social-housing/rental-accommodation-scheme"]Rental Accomodation Scheme which is managed by the local authority. However, as payments under this scheme are made automatically by EFT and the landlord is not involved in selecting the tenants, it does not apply to this case.


minion said:


> Not true. the landlord can phone the lc and make the ra cheque being paid into their account a condition of the tenancy.  If you were given a choice it was because the landlord had no preference.


Not according to http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement


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## minion (8 Oct 2008)

Complainer said:


> The local authority has no involvement in rent allowance or rent supplement. Rent allowance is
> administered by DSFA.  Rent supplement


 is administered by the HSE on behalf of DSFA. In both cases, payments are made directly to the tenant.[/quote]

So any letter written to the local authority would be a breach of privacy.




Complainer said:


> You might be getting mixed up with the [URL="http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/local-authority-and-social-housing/rental-accommodation-scheme"]Rental Accomodation Scheme





Complainer said:


> which is managed by the local authority. However, as payments under this scheme are made automatically by EFT and the landlord is not involved in selecting the tenants, it does not apply to this case.
> 
> Not according to http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement




Why not phone the local authority and ask them.  when something has happens that a tenant has had to go on rent allowance, I've done this on several occasions and stated that i am fine with the rent allowance, provided the payment is made directly to my bank account from the dept.  A few times the tenant has kicked up but it is still payed directly to me as i make it a condition.

Is informing the tax or social welfare office of someone receiving a personal injuries claim, or not paying tax in their job, or drawing the dole while working a breach of privacy also.  I think a phonecall to the local authority stating that the person receiving rent allowance is not actually using it to oay the rent would be received in much the same manner.


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## Neadyk (8 Oct 2008)

I know somebody who was in the exact same position with RA.  He reported it to the relevant authorities but they didnt seem to do anything.  He went the legal route & issued a letter of eviction etc but that process was lengthy and he wanted him out asap.  Then he confronted the tenant and said that he was going to take a personal action against them for fraud (he had signed the landlords signature for his RA) and was reporting it to the Gardai. The tenant was gone within the week.


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## onekeano (8 Oct 2008)

This topic is being covered on Liveline right now!


Roy


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## COLAKO (9 Oct 2008)

Are you registered with the PTRB? I suspect not juding by the course of events.....You have no right to enter the house and remove her things but it can be done obviously if you're sure she wont take action against you...I doubt it



Aoife34 said:


> I have a tenant renting for 2 and 1/2 years. She has not paid for July or August. She refused to answer the door when i called up and did not answer the phone either. I posted a letter just over two weeks ago and when i went back up after the two weeks, she still has no intentions of moving out, where do i go from here? Do i have the right to enter the house and remove her things?


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## aircobra19 (13 Oct 2008)

Murt10 said:


> Here are the details of the case in qyestion from the PRTB website
> 
> 
> 
> Murt


 
The conculsion of that from my reading of it, seems to be the tenant ends up not having to pay about 8k in rent because of illegal eviction, and also gets the bulk of their deposit back another 1k. The landlord doesn't have to pay damages because of the rent due. Seems to be a lot of messing from both sides. But at the end of the day the landlord is down 8k. If the landlord hadn't done an illegal eviction I don't think he would have got the back rent anyway, and could be owed even more rent. 

I can't see how this system  helps tenants. Its seems to encourage illegal evictions, and faster ones too.


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