# Will, Probate and Fees



## cord (13 Nov 2006)

Hello all! First post so be gentle! I am acting as the executor for my parent's estate and I have just found out, to my horror, that the solicitor is charging 3% of the total estate to carry out the paper work Not sure if I can reduce this bill, but I don't want to pass on such a bill to my family. My question is if I get a solicitor, as I have done, to write up a will for me, can my survivors take the will from the solicitors and carry out a DIY probate etc,.
Regards
Cord


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## ramble (13 Nov 2006)

Yes


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## MOB (13 Nov 2006)

Yes, provided that the solicitor is not the executor.  There are sometimes good reason for a solicitor being an executor (though my own policy is to always refuse a request to be a client's executor) but this does leave the solicitor in rather more control of the situation.


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## F. Kruger (13 Nov 2006)

cord said:


> Not sure if I can reduce this bill, but I don't want to pass on such a bill to my family.


 
Does anyone know if this 3% is negotiable?

If the estate consisted of a single life assurance policy for €1m, would the Solicitor be 'entitled' to €30K?.


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## jpd (13 Nov 2006)

All solicitor's fees are negotiable - preferably before you entrust them with the work. 
If you change solicitor now, they presumably can charge you for the time already spent on the case.


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## F. Kruger (14 Nov 2006)

jpd said:


> All solicitor's fees are negotiable - preferably before you entrust them with the work.


 
Does this mean that the person making the will has to negotiate what the solicitor is going to charge, maybe 30 years from now? 

How does this work? Does it form part of a written agreement between the client and solicitor?


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## jpd (14 Nov 2006)

No, that wouldn't work - the solicitor might not be around in 30 years. You could negotiate before drawing up the will for the cost of drawing up the will and then the executor/next of kin/... could negotiate again when dealing with the estate.


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## huskerdu (14 Nov 2006)

You have no obligation to use any particular solicitor.
Even if a solicitor holds the will, and are the deceased solicitor, you shoudl treat it as any other transaction - get personal recommendations, ask a number of recommended  solicitors to give a written quote and choose who you think will give the best service and value.


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## F. Kruger (14 Nov 2006)

huskerdu said:


> You have no obligation to use any particular solicitor.
> Even if a solicitor holds the will, and are the deceased solicitor, you shoudl treat it as any other transaction - get personal recommendations, ask a number of recommended solicitors to give a written quote and choose who you think will give the best service and value.


 
I wonder what percentage of Executors are informed of this by the Solicitor that 'holds' the will? 0% I would guess.

When a will is drafted and an Executor is nominated, the solicitor should  inform the Executor and also include information on what their rights are regarding the execution of the will ie that if they are to act in the best interest of the beneficiaries then they should be obliged to get a number of quotes for the business.


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## busymam (14 Nov 2006)

When my hubby died I did a a personal application for probate. The fees depend on the value of the estate.

[broken link removed]

The staff in the Probate Office were very helpful and it only cost a few hundred euro instead of the thousands I was quoted by some solicitors.

Hope this helps


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## Guest109 (14 Nov 2006)

i did this a few times myself applied for letters of administration ,saved thousands in solicitors fees


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## jpd (14 Nov 2006)

This depends on the circonstances - if it is straight-forward then go ahead, but if there are any complications, then any money spent on a solicitor could well be money well spent.


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## F. Kruger (15 Nov 2006)

Complications, like what?


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## jpd (15 Nov 2006)

Lost will, lost deeds, imprecise/ambiguous instructions, weak signature, ...


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## mf1 (15 Nov 2006)

Complications?

CGT, CAT, RPT, Probate Tax, failure to include assets in schedule.............the list of things that can go wrong is endless. Because the Probate Office don't offer legal advice, a lay person extracting a Grant can miss important issues. 

Obviously, many cases are simple and can be dealt with by  a lay person. But in my 20 years of dealing with estates I have never failed to be  astonished by the capacity of people to screw things up.

mf


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## F. Kruger (15 Nov 2006)

mf,

My issue is with the invoicing for 3% of the value of the estate irrespective of how complicated the transaction might be. It is only when the bill is seriously questioned that discounting begins. 

Again I would ask 'If the estate consisted of a single life assurance policy for €1m, would the Solicitor be 'entitled' to €30K?.'
​


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## Vanilla (15 Nov 2006)

Have a search of this forum in relation to probate fees- your questions have been asked and answered before. Competition in the profession means that all fees can be negotiated- if you are not happy with a fee, you are free to leave and find another solicitor who's fee you are happy with. It is impossible to say if 3% is too much in relation to the OP, since we do not know the details of the estate. HOwever in the instance you refer to, it is unlikely that any solicitor would charge a fee of 30k- although of course even where an estate consists of a single asset does not meant there are no other complications.


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## cord (15 Nov 2006)

It was a very simple estate, house and land and a credit union acc', nothing else. I found out about the fee when I got the bill. I was NOT informed before hand of the costs.  Thanks to everybody for replying.


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## cord (23 Aug 2008)

I posted this question almost 2 years ago.  I now have a new question on the same topic.  When my parent died the property was valued and the solicitor sent us a bill for 3% of the estate, including property valuation.  Two years on and lands have not been registered, not solicitor's fault, but the property value has dropped substantially.  As accounts have not been settled, is the 3% fee calculated on property valuation at the time of probate or when the property is being sold?


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## sam h (24 Aug 2008)

I am not a solicitor, so what I say is purely my understanding....I did probate for my dads estate (after I realised how much the solicitor wanted to charge....and he wanted me to do all the donkey work! - saved about €40k!)

I understand that the solicitor will charge their % based on what the official probate figure was. This is recorded on the final docs you would have got from the probate office.

I also believe that if the property has dropped in value, you and the other's who have inheritated will effectively have a capital loss which you can carry forward in relation to CGT.

I suppose the way to look at it is would it be fair if the property had a probate value of €1m but was now worth €.5m, would you be happy to pay the extra €15k?


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## murphaph (24 Aug 2008)

Clearly the policy of some solicitors to charge a flat (e.g. 3%) fee on estate value gives very poor value for money for a simple estate. Some solicitors are really only interested in your money (have personal experience of them) and some are really decent people who are genuinely interested in your best interests and charging fairly for their work (also have personal experience of them).


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## dazza21ie (25 Aug 2008)

murphaph said:


> Clearly the policy of some solicitors to charge a flat (e.g. 3%) fee on estate value gives very poor value for money for a simple estate. Some solicitors are really only interested in your money (have personal experience of them) and some are really decent people who are genuinely interested in your best interests and charging fairly for their work (also have personal experience of them).


 
What would you suggest as a fair fee for a simple estate?


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## murphaph (25 Aug 2008)

dazza21ie said:


> What would you suggest as a fair fee for a simple estate?


I don't have an exact figure in mind but I believe the cost of probate should be derived from the complexity of the work/estate-NOT simply the value of the estate which doesn't indicate how much work is involved. In some cases the charges will be higher of course and the public would have to understand that! A simple estate with no real property and just a €1m insurance policy should not attract the same fees as a highly complex estate (of the same overall value) with possibly poor titles etc. to search. 

The system needs more transparency as is apparent in England & Wales, that's for sure.


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## dazza21ie (25 Aug 2008)

Not so long ago i seen an invoice from an English firm of solicitors for some estate work they carried out on our clients behalf. This particular firm charge on an hourly basis and completed what i would describe as simple work but still time consuming. Because they charge on an hourly basis their invoice ended up being alot more than our own invoice even though we would have done alot more work. We charged a % of the estate fee.


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## cord (26 Aug 2008)

Thanks for the info.  I will update the thread with the progress.


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## Askar (26 Aug 2008)

The point about fixed rate versus hourly depends on the value of the estate and the complexity of the work. Generally, it would benefit the solicitor to charge a % for a high value estate where work straighforward and non-contentious, and an hourly rate for a low value estate. 

A practitioner familiar with this area of work would have streamlined his/her workstream. 

The issue is not fixed rate versus % but whether a fixed price is available in the market. In a competitive market a fixed rate should be sought in order to benefit from any efficiencies which are available (hourly rate does not give this incentive). Obviously, lowest price may not always be best in terms of service scope and quality.


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