# Harassment from Employer



## william (21 Nov 2012)

Hi,

I am looking for people that were in the situation where you are being questioned at work after being out sick. My problem is I suffer from Sarcoidosis and fibromyalgia and I have been sick quite a lot but not long term but I have been in hospital from these conditions. 

When I am out of work I always get a cert from the doctor but the company I work for is one of the main supermarket chains in Ireland and they have this percentage policy where you are not allowed go over 3% so I am well over this. So this is where I need help.  

We have a union but we feel they are more on the company side than ours.  When I return to work I get called in for a welcome back meeting which is where they ask me what was wrong with me.  Ok then on the same day I get called in again for an attendence review meeting where I am asked the same thing again.  Then the day after I am called in for an investigation meeting were I am again asked the same questions and then a disciplinary meeting where they tell you are you getting a verbel or written warning. Is this legal people or is this not harassment in the work place.  

They also make sly comments.  I get very stressed out knowing when I return to work I have to put up with all these meetings. Some advice or other people thats in the same situation as me. 

All help welcome  Thanks in advance and excuse the spelling .


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## Diziet (21 Nov 2012)

Worth contacting [broken link removed]. 

I am sure it feels like harassment, but your employer is not necessarily breaking the law. Best to check with the site above.


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## william (21 Nov 2012)

Excellent thanks Diziet .


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## becky (21 Nov 2012)

Is there an attendance policy, I'm assuming there is, so request a copy.  We are required to do a return to work meeting for every absence.  The manager and employee have to sign a form.  A colleague of mine has to do one every week with a staff member who is takes one half day a week to attend an OPD clinic for treatment.  The treatment lasts for 4-6 weeks at a time.  This happens every couple of months.

I had a meeting with my own manager for a one day absence, my first in 4 years.

There should not be any warnings except to say if the attendance policy is abused then disciplinary action may be taken.

There shouldn't be any sly comments so what you seem to have here is a grievance.  As it's a big organisation, I'm assuming there is a policy grievances.


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## william (21 Nov 2012)

Thanks becky yes there is policy in place and I have got a copy of it but it does not say that they can ask you what is wrong with you and I could not be abusing the policy as I have given proof that I was admitted to hospital but it is the amount of meetings and asking the same questions every time I think myself they are trying to catch us out to see if we say something different I feel like they are trying to get rid of me as I am a long time in the company and they dont want us anymore. I think I will get in touch with my union again and maybe seek legal advice . Thanks again becky for you help .


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## Leper (21 Nov 2012)

Right William, obviously you have a problem at work. You have given some scant information and other more informative stuff. To be honest I don't know if you are being harrassed or that management is just being assertive (there is a difference). However, here is my tuppence worth:-
1. Keep a record of what you described are "sly" comments. Just write the comments down soon after they have been uttered. It is important to record the exact words used and how you felt afterwards. Record in front of whom the comments were passed and on what date and even time if to hand.

2. I assume your employer has a Medical Officer. Some companies have a "doctor-to-doctor" system of reporting where requested. Perhaps you can discuss with the HR section if this system is applicable to you and get your answer in writing. Remember your company gets you to sign meeting attendance forms. Why not the other way round sometimes? If you have a doctor-to-doctor system use it and ask the company doctor to guarantee your privacy. They usually do.

3. Sick Leave History of employees is on the change at the moment. The Croke Park Agreement saw to that. But, there are no grounds for harrassment.

4. Involve your union and recommend the same action for your colleagues. If you are singled out for the alleged harrassment, then the problem is worse.

5. Keep a written record of each time you feel harrassed. Believe me you will gain some respect even from the most unworthy harrassers. I recommend you send an email to your private email address each time you feel you have been harrassed. Twenty pages of such records tell much more truths than twenty meetings or verbal argument and might give you the needed ammunition to fight back if necessary.

6. There are many people in management who fancy themselves as saviour-of-the-company. They seek out a reputation of getting the job done at all costs and they think they look good harrassing somebody. Some even thrive on this and make up their own rules for any sick leave situation. Get to know the sick leave work practice of your company. I am sure they will give it to you in writing. Read it, study it, get to know it; knowledge is power and you will soon know if you are being harrassed or not.

. . . and if you are being bullied . . . then get ready for your backlash . . . lots of bullying managers get sacked even in supermarket retail.


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## william (22 Nov 2012)

Hi Leper and thanks very much for your help. I have a bit of a update for ye my mother was in shopping yesterday and she asked one of my team leaders were a product was and when the member of staff asked about me my mother would not give any info. So this one  gave my mother a smart remark so when my mother asked what she ment by it she walked away so I think now I will have to go futher with this . Anyway regarding union been there done that they are working more for the company now than the employer and we have said this to them. And I am be singled out and it is getting to feel like bullying at this stage. Thanks again Leper


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## dodo (23 Nov 2012)

Document every issue you have with them and don't be afriad to do this in front of them, so when they call you in make sure you have your diary and start writing the minutes of the meeting,also you may ask can you have a witness sit with you in these meetings,(just wonder would it be legal for you to record the meeting )you may need to ask them can you record the meeting on your phone,


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## william (23 Nov 2012)

I will certainly ask them is it ok to record it that was a good idea Dodo thanks.


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## roker (23 Nov 2012)

A written warning is for misconduct, how can they give you it for being sick?
As to the Union, ask them who is paying their due's, all employers should threaten to leave the union.


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## william (24 Nov 2012)

Ya man thats what i was thinking but they gave to me for my attendence not being below there 3% precent crap. And with the union I have spoken to them and they saying that there policy is 3% and they are saying that I am not full filling my contract hours but when I am healthy I do my contract hours. In the meetings it is like by questioned for a murder or something trying to catch you out to see will you say something different in one of the FIVE ! meetings . Sick to death of it. People are telling me i should leave and go on disability allowance but I have a big mortgage to pay and a car loan not as easy as that.


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## Padraigb (24 Nov 2012)

That's a disgraceful performance by the union! I presume that you have been dealing with your local representative, who might have "gone native" and be too cosy with management. Write to your union (head office, branch office, whatever - somewhere where you will find full-time union workers) to say that you are disappointed with the representation of your interests.

You are entitled to be absent from work if you have an illness that prevents you from working.

As a separate matter, if you know who spoke about you to your mother, you should make a complaint about her. It is a serious breach of your right to privacy.


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## amtc (25 Nov 2012)

As I said in another post, the point in any company is not the % or indeed days. In fact it's in your interest to take as much time rather than 2 days, go back, then out for another two days. The HR policy should be for 3 separate illness incidents (i.e. if you have 12 absences for back pain they are counted as one). My job views it as this.


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## william (25 Nov 2012)

Thanks guys. AMTC thanks they way I looked as it also and it is from the same illness but they keep going on about this % crap. God for bid if i had cancer what way would they treat me !


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## amtc (26 Nov 2012)

In the company I was in, it took the union (and I wasn't a member) to get this recgnised, but eventually it was - think it was the CWU and was endorsed by ICTU.


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## Complainer (1 Dec 2012)

There is no reason to EVER discuss your medical history with your line manager. Your line manager is not a medical expert, and is unable to interpret any information you give them.

You can discuss any impacts of your medical condition (e.g. unable to lift, or unable to work long hours), but don't feel obliged to name your condition. If they want medical information, you visit their occupational health doctor, who will do an occ health report on the impacts of your condition.


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## william (3 Dec 2012)

Had first meeting after going back asking me all kind of questions Ex; What is wrong with you ? what did they find ? what meds am i on ? I told them that i was in hospital and that is it they asked me again and i refused to answer just did not say anything they were taking notes. Waiting to see what happens now I am still waiting for my appeal for my first written warning ! What a joke these crowd are .


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## dereko1969 (3 Dec 2012)

Have they asked you to attend the company doctor or an independent doctor? 

Have you asked for a copy of their disciplinary procedures and illness/absence policy?

Who attended the meeting you were at?


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## william (3 Dec 2012)

Two managers myself and a union rep were at the meeting.   I was already sent to the company doctor and he was also going nuts at the way I had been treated. I have a copy of that alright says noting in it about telling them what is wrong with me and anything else regarding that just says how many days sick leave I am allowed and long term illness policy and their entitlement to send me to company doctor. 

When I first started in the company there was none of this rubbish.  It was voted in around four years ago by a nationwide vote. But of course this company was opening new stores all over the place and were hiring people from different countries that did not understand what they were voting for.  Of course, the SIPTU union reps were saying vote no while our fools were saying vote yes because we got a 6% pay rise at the time.  All the new staff voted yes and all of us old ones said no because we knew what they were up to.  But there was only like 200 members of staff with more than ten years service in the company as a lot of them took the redundecy package (Sorry for misspelling ) so that was a lot of people that left .

We will wait and see what happens. Question for ye. If I was to bring them to court for harassment does my union fight my case with their lawyers or what? 

Thanks again people for your replies.


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## dereko1969 (4 Dec 2012)

I'd be fairly sure the Company Doctor will have informed your line managers what your ailment/condition is, so refusing to tell your line managers might just annoy them for no good reason.

As pointed out earlier, you need to keep note of all occasions of what you are deeming to be harrassment. I think before you go down that route, you need to discuss frankly with your line manager and union rep that you feel you are being harrassed, if you don't do that then any legal action will fail - you have to give them a chance to remedy the situation.


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## Leper (4 Dec 2012)

No Dereko, depending on what the illness is the line managers would not be informed by the company doctor. The company doctor would however, write to the management indicating the gravity of the illness and placing details in a "doctors sealed envelope" in the employee's work personnel file.

Good advice though to keep a note of all occasions and the need to discuss with the line manager the harrassment issue. By the way, you dont have to give too many chances for the situation to be remedied. But, keep taking notes indicating what was said or done, the witnesses, the time and date and how you felt at the time.


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## william (5 Dec 2012)

Hi again guys I have bought it up to them before that I feel that I am being a victim of harassment and I want it recorded in my file that I have bought this up in the meeting which they did. So they know how I feel but still no change and I not being called into a meeting since last week so at the moment I dont know what's going on.I am keeping notes and times and date now so hopefully things will change. Thanks again guys .


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## william (7 Dec 2012)

Update for ye kind people. I was called into a meeting today with my union rep and two managers one speaking and one taking notes. I was as the same questions again so I answered the same as I always do. Then the asked me what have I got I told them my doctor knows and I am awaiting results then they started given my medical advice in what foods to avoid to go see a diet specialist and let them know what I have which I made no remark too. Can the give me advice like this they are not doctor's is this not illegal people who made them doctor's told me we will have another meeting in four weeks time regarding my results and were to go from then. Do I have to give them my results ?? Man I am teed off now .


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## becky (7 Dec 2012)

My opinion still is you have a grievance.  You are participating with the process as you are obliged to, but you are not happy with the way it is conducted.  You need to make that known now.  No need to wait for the next meeting.

Did you tell your union rep that you are not happy with the way the process is being operated?


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## william (8 Dec 2012)

Yes I did tell them and they brushed it off as always .


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## Complainer (8 Dec 2012)

william said:


> they started given my medical advice in what foods to avoid to go see a diet specialist and let them know what I have which I made no remark too. Can the give me advice like this they are not doctor's is this not illegal people who made them doctor's



Try a bit more punctuation in future posts, man - it will help people to make sense of your comments.

There is nothing illegal about anyone giving medical advice. It's a bit of a stupid thing for an employer to do, but it's not illegal. The best thing you and your union rep can do is to challenge them as it happens. Ask them calmly and politely if they are qualified to give medical advice. Ask them to put their medical advice in writing, and see if they are dumb enough to do that.


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## Raging Bull (20 Dec 2012)

They have a right to question you to a certain extent in order to help manage rotas etc...but if you have been to company doctor and they have agreed your condition they can not interfere. If they are not doctors they can not question medical opinion

They can not ask you about diet etc..to be honest they are harassing you. I would ask to initiate official grievance policy as it sounds they are trying to force you out.

By the other guy commenting to your Mother if he was specific and you did not tell hime anything before you have serious grounds for a case as it breaches your privacy rights


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## william (15 Feb 2013)

All is sorted they have backed off as I got a written warning and they gave me medical advice once again so I contacted my g.p who wrote a letter too there head office regarding there treatment of me and giving me medical advice written warning withdrawn and no futher action to take place . Happy Days !!


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## AgathaC (17 Feb 2013)

Glad you got sorted,and wishing you all the best for the future.


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## Fastrack (17 Jun 2013)

Hi, how are you getting on with this, are you getting any more harassment? Did you raise a formal grievance? Did you get dismissed?

I had a similar problem after a car accident and was forced to take appointments out of holiday time accrued.

I was eventually dismissed for something unrelated.

Yes you were being harassed. Have no doubt about it and don't listen to anyone who tries to convince you otherwise.

If you were dismissed, take a cars to rights commissioner, if you were due any pay or holidays, or bonuses, make and application under payment of wages act, and your unfair dismissal will be attached, average waiting time is three months max. Following on, if you are found to have been n fairly dismissed, then take a personal injury case under the health and safety legislation. Also take a case for discrimination with the equality legislation.

The unfair dismissal is capped at two years salary. The other two cases are uncapped compensation.

Let us know how you are getting on.


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