# law re handguns



## Jane Doe (13 Nov 2008)

I heard on the news the garda commissioner is worried about all the licenced handguns. what is he talking about the one the police use? Handguns cannot be licenced by an ordinary person can they?


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## jb724 (13 Nov 2008)

they can if you fulfill/prove certain criteria to the Gardai.

1.you are supposed to be a member of a gun club that provides for target shooting practice (not just ordinary hunting areas)
2.you are supposed to have a gun-safe (for storage)in your house that the local gardai should inspect.
3.you must apply to buy ammunition. 

There is a board sitting (_gun club/olympic shooting council_ i think) at the moment to bring in other safety criteria.

The problem is it isnt that hard to become a member of gun clubs.You can say that you are practicing target shooting in you back garden.I am unsure how stringent the local Garda inspection of you house where you store gun and ammunition would be.Like everything in this country there is a lot of legal loopholes that are only spotted after the damage is done eg there are a lot of licensed guns out there already.


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## LouthLass (13 Nov 2008)

Very reliable source has told me that all handguns are to be banned in the very near future!


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## Jane Doe (13 Nov 2008)

jb724 said:


> they can if you fulfill/prove certain criteria to the Gardai.
> 
> 1.you are supposed to be a member of a gun club that provides for target shooting practice (not just ordinary hunting areas)
> 2.you are supposed to have a gun-safe (for storage)in your house that the local gardai should inspect.
> ...


Never knew that a friend of mine is very int in handguns and how they work. he is not a criminal or anything and used to buy a guns and ammo mag but gave up as he thought he was not allowed to own even a replica


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## jb724 (13 Nov 2008)

that'd be great news but again far too late...there is a significant number already legally imported by criminals etc which no doubt will be hidden away and used when required by the worst in society.


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## jb724 (13 Nov 2008)

replicas are even easier to get sometimes called _BB Guns..._they are basically replicas that use air pressure to fire a small harmless pellet. the problem is they are excellent replicas and one would not be able to distinguish them from the real thing unless you knew about guns.They (replicas) are mostly made in Hong Kong and can be bought online and posted to your address. Even though customs are aware of this they are classed as toys so very often dont get confiscated


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## bond-007 (13 Nov 2008)

jb724 said:


> they can if you fulfill/prove certain criteria to the Gardai.
> 
> 1.you are supposed to be a member of a gun club that provides for target shooting practice (not just ordinary hunting areas)
> 2.you are supposed to have a gun-safe (for storage)in your house that the local gardai should inspect.
> ...


Also you must have a monitored alarm system to get a pistol licence.

Your house will be inspected by a Crime prevention officer and he will advise the local superintendent of your security arrangements. The superintendent will then decide if you are a fit person to own a pistol. He will certainly refuse you if you are shooting targets in the back yard. 

I don't believe for 1 minute that legally held guns are being used to murder people. That is the media and FG going mad imho. They don't have a clue. 

I suggest you read http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055416847


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## DavyJones (13 Nov 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Also you must have a monitored alarm system to get a pistol licence.
> 
> Your house will be inspected by a Crime prevention officer and he will advise the local superintendent of your security arrangements. The superintendent will then decide if you are a fit person to own a pistol. He will certainly refuse you if you are shooting targets in the back yard.
> 
> ...




Spoken like a fully paid up member of the NRA


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## shesells (14 Nov 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I don't believe for 1 minute that legally held guns are being used to murder people. That is the media and FG going mad imho. They don't have a clue.


 
The Garda commissioner disagrees with you! [broken link removed]


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## Clash (14 Nov 2008)

shesells said:


> The Garda commissioner disagrees with you! [broken link removed]


 
Well he also disagrees with the report that Jane Doe referred to. It appears from the IT article that he's talking about shotguns being stolen, not pistols. 

He hasn't stated either if these stolen guns were used in murders, although there was a case in Wexford (?) recently where a father and son were shot by an acquaintance who used their own legally held shotguns against them.

Unfortunately for these victims, there's no requirement to have shotguns stored in a gun safe when not in use. Had this been the case, perhaps their lives would not have been lost.


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## 1911 (16 Nov 2008)

> they can if you fulfill/prove certain criteria to the Gardai.





> 1.you are supposed to be a member of a gun club that provides for target shooting practice (not just ordinary hunting areas)
> 2.you are supposed to have a gun-safe (for storage)in your house that the local gardai should inspect.
> 3.you must apply to buy ammunition.


 
1. Correct

2. Yes. Normally for restricted firearms (such as a pistol) 2 safes would be required with the gun being split between them and they would be have their own 24 hour alarm zone so that they the safes are alarmed even when the alarm is switched off.
The crime prevention officer will often insist on additional door locks, window locks and monitoring for the alarm.

3. The firearm's certificate issued for the pistol will allow the owner to purchase suitable ammunition. 




> The problem is it isnt that hard to become a member of gun clubs


 
It can take a year or two. Gun clubs are not keen on allowing a person to become a full member until they have assessed the person fully. A list of members and potential members is generally given to the gardai. Potential members must complete safety courses to be considered and will be monitored during a year long (typical) probation period.

Once a person becomes a full member of an authorised gun club a letter is generally issued by club to assist with an application for a firearm. 




> You can say that you are practicing target shooting in you back garden


No you can’t!! This will ensure that you never get any firearms certificate!! Pistols are only allowed for target practice on authorised ranges. Such ranges have been inspected and passed by the authorities.




> I am unsure how stringent the local Garda inspection of you house where you store gun and ammunition would be


Very stringent. I have witnessed it more than once. 




> Like everything in this country there is a lot of legal loopholes that are only spotted after the damage is done eg there are a lot of licensed guns out there already.


 
Per capita we have the lowest gun ownership in Europe.
This is the case even though our figures are somewhat inflated due to the fact that many of our licensed firearms are low powered air guns that do not require a license in most countries in Europe (UK, France, Germany, Holland, Spain...) and therefore do not appear in the statistics for those countries. 

There are no legal loopholes for licensed pistols in Ireland.




> Very reliable source has told me that all handguns are to be banned in the very near future!


 
This may be true, but I have been listening to this for 4 years now!




> the problem is they are excellent replicas and one would not be able to distinguish them from the real thing unless you knew about guns.


 
This is true. They can be bought across the counter legally all over Ireland. I have seen shops in Bray and Dublin. It is a worry. 




> Also you must have a monitored alarm system to get a pistol licence.





> Your house will be inspected by a Crime prevention officer and he will advise the local superintendent of your security arrangements. The superintendent will then decide if you are a fit person to own a pistol. He will certainly refuse you if you are shooting targets in the back yard.


100% correct. 

Generally a successful applicant would have to have extensive firearms experience (several gardai have had applications refused), completed several safety courses and compete on a regular basis. An interview by the superintendent would not be unheard of. 




> I don't believe for 1 minute that legally held guns are being used to murder people





> The Garda commissioner disagrees with you!


 
When a firearm is stolen it is no longer legally held.

Although there was a recent famous case in Mayo..




> It appears from the IT article that he's talking about shotguns being stolen, not pistols


 
There is a problem with shotguns in my opinion. That is that many people that own them are not required by law to have a safe for them. This is why they can sometimes be easier to steal than other firearms that do require a safe. 

If a criminal wants to get a pistols/machineguns/grenades the simplest way is to stick them in with the next order of drugs. This technique has been successfully applied in the UK where handguns have been banned for several years now. It been used in Limerick by criminals to get assault rifles, RPGs etc (such items are currently banned)


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## starlite68 (16 Nov 2008)

1911 said:


> This is true. They can be bought across the counter legally all over Ireland. I have seen shops in Bray and Dublin. It is a worry.


these replicas cannot be used to kill or injure anyone...so i would not worry too much!


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## 1911 (16 Nov 2008)

> these replicas cannot be used to kill or injure anyone...so i would not worry too much!


True!! But they can be obtained by anyone and used to intimidate.


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## LouthLass (16 Nov 2008)

starlite68 said:


> these replicas cannot be used to kill or injure anyone...so i would not worry too much!




On the contrary - this is indeed a worry!  It doesn't matter if it is real or a replica, the person who has the gun aimed in their direction doesn't know this and as far as they are concerned their life is in danger!  This could affect them for the rest of their lives and seriously damage their confidence and ability to work in that environment again!!  Replica or not, the threat is real and that person is in fear for their lives.


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## starlite68 (16 Nov 2008)

still...i think i would rather have to deal with a replica gun that someone weilding a knife or iron bar!


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## LouthLass (17 Nov 2008)

starlite68 said:


> still...i think i would rather have to deal with a replica gun that someone weilding a knife or iron bar!




Indeed - but only if you knew it was a replica, some of the models on the market are incredibily realistic and an ordinary member of the public would not know the difference.


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## Seagull (17 Nov 2008)

starlite68 said:


> these replicas cannot be used to kill or injure anyone...so i would not worry too much!


Except for the fact that there is a thriving business in converting replicas so that they fire proper bullets.


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## LouthLass (17 Nov 2008)

Seagull said:


> Except for the fact that there is a thriving business in converting replicas so that they fire proper bullets.




Scary!  If the Gov do eventually ban handguns, will they also ban replicas I wonder?


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## 1911 (17 Nov 2008)

> Except for the fact that there is a thriving business in converting replicas so that they fire proper bullets.


 
This is incorrect. What you are thinking of is deactivated firearms that have been "recomissioned". This would not be possible if they were decomissioned properly in the first place.

Replicas are made of soft cast metals or alloys that can not withstand the pressures that would be required for a real bullet. The airsoft guns are even weaker, mostly plastic.


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## 1911 (17 Nov 2008)

> Scary! If the Gov do eventually ban handguns, will they also ban replicas I wonder?


 
They were banned until recently. They found the law unworkable becaues so many people were buying them on the internet, so the ban was lifted. That is why airsoft has taken off so much in recent times.

As we have seen from 1972 to 2004 during the time that both were banned criminals and terrorists never seemed to be too concerned!!


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## starlite68 (17 Nov 2008)

Seagull said:


> Except for the fact that there is a thriving business in converting replicas so that they fire proper bullets.


 BB guns cannot be converted to fire real bullets!


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