# How to get rid of an adult child?



## rogeroleary (20 Jan 2008)

I know a couple who are very elderly but had been living very contentedly until about 3 years ago. Then one of their children aged about 50 had a very nasty split with his wife and asked the parents if he could move in for a few months. 

Now 3 years later he drives them mad, dominating the TV for example, drinking through the night and basically living for free off them (pay nothing towards the house bills). Recently, quite amazingly, he has received free travel, free medical card and a "carers" allowance even though the parents (and I have heard this personally) have told him they don't want him in the house.

When the other members of the family raise this point with him he keeps saying the parents are not capable of living on their own and they need someone to "keep an eye on them". Stress levels in the house are very high, this guys is extremely manipulative and to an outsider he gives the impression he is a hero when in fact he is bleeding them financially and emotionally.

Question is, how do they force him out? Do they need to give him notice? Do they need to engage a solicitor? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Roger


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## MOB (21 Jan 2008)

They can either:

1.  Throw him out with the assistance of a family member or friend or - if there is none able to do this - a solicitor;  A good time to do this is on his return from a holiday or weekend away (make sure he takes one!) - just have all his bags packed when he gets back and change the locks.  This may well precipitate a rift in the family, but that may well be a price worth paying; or

2.  They can plan the thing like a military campaign.  They can stop feeding him unless he pays for the food - better yet give him a food list to buy each week.  They can move the  T.V. into their bedroom and tell him to get his own (or better yet, if they can, tell him to get a TV in his own bedroom and watch it there).  They can start making him do all of the shopping and other errands; get him to cut the grass, get him to do the washing etc.  they can start asking him to help them get out of bed and dress in the morning and to give them lifts here there and everywhere.  In other words, they can start being an actual burden to him, and ratchet it up over a few months so that the idea of living on his own might seem more attractive.   This might eventually achieve the result that he will move out of his own volition, and without there being a rift.   In the perfect outcome, they would be telling him as he goes 'you're always welcome here'.   

An outcome like 2 above is really hard to achieve.  So the parents probably have to make a hard choice about whether they want the peace of having him gone at the cost of a rift with him.   This really must be their choice.


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## Simeon (21 Jan 2008)

Or, try emulating his ex's strategy!


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## Purple (21 Jan 2008)

MOB, If he lives in the house and "takes care" of the parents over a period of years is there a legal mechanism he can use as their long term live in carer to look for full inheritance of the house when the parents die?


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## therave (21 Jan 2008)

they should call the social and ask on what grounds he received the carers allowance and advise they never asked for or approved of it


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

Thanks MOB, I suspect that option one will be the way to go because the character in question could never be imagined cutting grass or other such errands. He is extremely manipulative and I would suspect the very mention of cutting the grass would immediately lead to feigning heart attacks etc.

I am a member of the extended family (very extended member) and I could see a situation whereby I could end up being the one to arrange his eviction following his weekend away  - however you did mention the possibility of using a solicitor, could you please advise how a solicitor might be involved? Is this by way of issuing notice?

A concern of the family is that there are 4 siblings of which this character is one. The parents have stated on several occasions that their estate would be divided equally 4 ways. The other members of the family are getting concerned that now this character has established roots in the house (albeit reluctantly on behalf of the parents) and the fact that he has now managed to get himself declared as an official "carer"", is there anyway he could claim that he should inherit the house of have a larger claim on the estate because he "cared" for the parents?

Roger


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## niceoneted (21 Jan 2008)

They can apply for a barring order under the Domestic Violence act 1996 see sec 3 of that Act. Might sound extreme but it may just be the way to go about it.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/act/pub/0001/sec0003.html#zza1y1996s3


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## Marie (21 Jan 2008)

rogeroleary said:


> Thanks MOB, I suspect that option one will be the way to go because the character in question could never be imagined cutting grass or other such errands. He is extremely manipulative and I would suspect the very mention of cutting the grass would immediately lead to feigning heart attacks etc.
> 
> I am a member of the extended family (very extended member) and I could see a situation whereby I could end up being the one to arrange his eviction following his weekend away  - however you did mention the possibility of using a solicitor, could you please advise how a solicitor might be involved? Is this by way of issuing notice?
> 
> ...


 
Should he still be living in the house when the parents die the family/local council would certainly have the issue of his rehousing before the house could be sold and the estate dispersed.  This happens quite a lot.

This man is essentially 'squatting'.  His residence and physical proximity to them makes it unlikely the parents can prevail on him to go of his own accord.  They do need outside help such as Conflict Resolution Service or solicitor issuing a restraining order on his use of their home.  

Whatever they do, it's going to be painful for everyone so they are lucky to have your support.  Can you motivate other members of the 'extended family' to stand by and do likewise?


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

Marie said:


> Can you motivate other members of the 'extended family' to stand by and do likewise?


 
I think that's the way it's heading and MOB's option of getting him out of the house and changing locks might be the best solution.

I must admit the rehousing aspect for the council never occurred to me though so not sure it that creates major problems in this regard.

Roger


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## sam h (21 Jan 2008)

Have the parents specifically said that they do not want him living in their house any more or are the extended family "assuming" they don't want him there?  They may be grumbling but they may not want to turf him out (which, btw, I reckon they probably should do).  
Always amazes me how some adults assume they have a right to move back to the family home whenever they want!!


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## truthseeker (21 Jan 2008)

Why dont the parents just tell him to leave?


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

sam h said:


> Have the parents specifically said that they do not want him living in their house any more or are the extended family "assuming" they don't want him there? They may be grumbling but they may not want to turf him out (which, btw, I reckon they probably should do).


 
I personally have heard them both tell him to leave, that they didn't need him and they didn't want him there. We're talking here about a serial manipulator who goes around telling people that the parents are "losing it" and that the father "can't drive anymore because of his age so I need to do all the driving" (ie. it's very handy for me having a car fully paid for to drive around). The real issue here is the stress that it has very obviously created for an elderly couple who had expected to live out their days quite contentedly and who probably would never have received a visit from this character if he had not been offloaded by his wife!


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## sam h (21 Jan 2008)

If that is the case, and that they have clearly asked him to go, then the family should help the the parents to achieve this.  Get some of the immediate family to have a chat with the parents and be sure they want their help to get rid of him.  He doesn't sound like a nice guy, any chance he will harass his parents if they pack his bags and lock him out?


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## ClubMan (21 Jan 2008)

rogeroleary said:


> I know a couple who are very elderly but had been living very contentedly until about 3 years ago. Then one of their children aged about 50 had a very nasty split with his wife and asked the parents if he could move in for a few months.
> 
> Now 3 years later he drives them mad, dominating the TV for example, drinking through the night and basically living for free off them (pay nothing towards the house bills). Recently, quite amazingly, he has received free travel, free medical card and a "carers" allowance even though the parents (and I have heard this personally) have told him they don't want him in the house.
> 
> ...





rogeroleary said:


> I am a member of the extended family (very extended member)


Surely this is really a matter for the *immediate *family? Especially when...


> A concern of the family is that there are 4 siblings of which this character is one. The parents have stated on several occasions that their estate would be divided equally 4 ways. The other members of the family are getting concerned that now this character has established roots in the house (albeit reluctantly on behalf of the parents) and the fact that he has now managed to get himself declared as an official "carer"", is there anyway he could claim that he should inherit the house of have a larger claim on the estate because he "cared" for the parents?


I don't understand why you are getting involved.


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## truthseeker (21 Jan 2008)

i would agree with Clubman - at the end of the day the parents are adults and capable of making their own decisions - if they need help removing this son surely they can ask immediate family to help?


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

sam h said:


> any chance he will harass his parents if they pack his bags and lock him out?


 

Every chance.........that's the problem. And regarding immediate family not asserting themselves - well some people don't deal well with confrontation, especially where someone is so manipulative and twists facts so make it sound like they are doing all this good when the opposite is true.

Roger


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## ClubMan (21 Jan 2008)

But why are you making it your business to sort out their problems? I don't get it...


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## mf1 (21 Jan 2008)

“even though the parents (and I have heard this personally) have told him they don't want him in the house.”

“to an outsider he gives the impression he is a hero when in fact he is bleeding them financially and emotionally.”

You see there are several sides to this story but one thing does seem clear – the parents are elderly and they would prefer if this son was not living with them. However, if it can be accepted that they would prefer he was not there, then they may not have the strength/resolve/willpower (call it what you will) to actively confront the son and make it clear that they want him to leave. So, will they ask the rest of the family to assist them? This is tricky – parents do not like to turn family members against each other – understandably. But what is the alternative? If they are unhappy about him being there, if they want him out, if the immediate family prefer not to get involved, is it up to some of the very extended family? If a client came to see me and told me that their parents were in this situation, I would ask the parents to come in and see me, I would advise them of their options but they would have to decide to do it themselves. It’s not unusual to take clients instructions to write a formal letter to (in this case) an unwelcome lodger only to find that the clients will not take it any further. And in the end it's the clients' case – they have to decide what they want to do, take advices, act (or not) on the advices, and live with the consequences. 

And I wonder about the actual motivation also: 
“The other members of the family are getting concerned that now this character has established roots in the house (albeit reluctantly on behalf of the parents) and the fact that he has now managed to get himself declared as an official "carer"", is there anyway he could claim that he should inherit the house of have a larger claim on the estate because he "cared" for the parents?  “

There is every possibility of this happening .

But its still for the parents to deal with the problem. 

mf


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

Thanks MF for the detailed response. I fully understand that the parents have to make the final decision based on the advice & support availble to them. You sum it up perfectly "they may not have the strength/resolve/willpower (call it what you will) to actively confront the son and make it clear that they want him to leave".

When you say there is every possibility that this person could end up having a greater claim to their estate - would you have any suggestions as to how this might be mitigated?

Thanks
Roger


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## polly2000 (21 Jan 2008)

_Quote "is there anyway he could claim that he should inherit the house of have a larger claim on the estate because he "cared" for the parents? “

There is every possibility of this happening_ ."

Could you elaborate please on this. In the case of no will being made is there a possibility of him making a claim on the property and getting a greater share than his siblings or have I taken this up all wrong?
P


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## rogeroleary (21 Jan 2008)

polly2000 said:


> _Quote "is there anyway he could claim that he should inherit the house of have a larger claim on the estate because he "cared" for the parents? “_
> 
> _There is every possibility of this happening_ ."
> 
> ...


 
Just to be clear on this as the OP, in the specific case I am referring to above there is a will which states that the estate will be shared equally amongst the siblings.


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## Marie (21 Jan 2008)

To be absolutely blunt...........the family will have to put up with the consequences if this son (who sounds immature and overdependent) steers the parents into making over their dosh to himself.

The OP has intimated that the man is planting out the seeds that they are 'loosing it'.  In law and as far as the medical profession are concerned persons deemed 'non compos mentis' have arrangements made on their behalf by Another who takes Power of Attorney.

Do you get the picture?  This couple appear not to be being heard, either by the resident son or their other family members.  It is all well and good for outsiders to suggest this couple should speak up and act up for themselves.   That is not so easy when you have slowed right down and are frail.  Doubtless they love and care about this son at the same time as experiencing him as intrusive and freeloading.  They are parents.  Tough call to throw him into the streets whilst they have room in their home for him. 

It all needs some open calm discussion with an objective outsider.  I know its anathema to some but how about mediation by a local priest or by the couple's GP before going the legal route?


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## Billo (22 Jan 2008)

Maybe the siblings could take the parents into one of their own houses for a period of time until things get sorted out. Mad suggestion maybe ?


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## therave (22 Jan 2008)

imagine what this guy would do if the parents left their home...
he seems to be a right selfish git but saying that this is nothing new and is actually common enough where a middle aged man has seperated


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## truthseeker (22 Jan 2008)

have the parenbts ever actually asked him to leave and if so what was the reaction?

could the immediate family call a meeting and confront him with a group of immediate family members, spouses etc so that no one has to face him alone, then perhaps a couple of them stay over until he is gone so that he cant terrorize the parents when everyone goes home?

or could he be asked to stay in someone elses house and then asked to leave after a number of days/weeks - meanwhile locks changed in parents house?

what about having the local guards involved so that he knows there will be repercussions if he acts up and that this is not a 'behind closed doors' situation anymore?

sometimes blowing a situation like this out of the water involves telling everyone about it and removing the cover that the villian is hiding behind.


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2008)

therave said:


> this is nothing new and is actually common enough where a middle aged man has seperated


Bit of a sweeping statement there? If you think not then perhaps you could cite some evidence...



truthseeker said:


> what about having the local guards involved


I doubt that they would get involved - it's a domestic, civil matter so is of no concern to them.


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## therave (22 Jan 2008)

actually i know 3 instances where this has happened ,couple seperate and he moved back in with his parents,2 got their own places once they got sorted and 1 is still there but the parents approve...
sweep away


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2008)

Ah - three instances. Fair enough. That obviously proves the general point so. Thanks...


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## terrysgirl33 (22 Jan 2008)

I've seen a similar situation before, unless the parents are prepared to stand up to him, no-one else can help.  Have they sat down with the other children to discuss what they want done, and how to do it?  Have they sat down with anyone else?  Has anyone actually offered practical help on how to get him out?  They may be complaining, but so long as they won't actually do anything, he's set.


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## Pique318 (22 Jan 2008)

How about shaming him into leaving ?

"ah here he comes, the middle-aged man living with mammy" etc 

Might be childish, but he'd get the point and maybe act on it ? Or is he the kind of person that wouldn't care what people think of him so long as he has an easy ride ?


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## Moral Ethos (22 Jan 2008)

Get him out of the house on his holidays, change locks get a barring order. Then it is the Gardaís problem.


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## truthseeker (23 Jan 2008)

It is not that easy to get a barring order, you must first obtain a protection order, and the person that the order is against is given an opportunity to speak for themselves in court.


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## gnubbit (23 Jan 2008)

Sorry to hear about this Roger, it sounds like a really difficult situation.  I can understand that although his parents want him to leave they probably are not up to dealing with it.  As my parents got older they were less and less able to deal with any stress.

I know there are probably different sides to the story - no doubt the man concerned believes he is acting for the best.  I have found that even if people are behaving selfishly, they are usually convinced they are doing the right thing.  Could he be pesuaded to take a holiday, preferably for a few weeks.  Assuming his parents *can* manage without him for a couple of weeks, that would weaken his argument that he needs to be there.  

I'd also suggest that one of the siblings/extended family takes him in until he can make other arrangments - it will be easier for them to get rid of him than a frail elderly couple.  Although you feel he's behaving badly, it might be more effective to show him a bit of kindness - if he feels everyone is against him it might make him dig his heels in and the situation becomes worse.  After all, a separation is no easy thing and starting over must be hard - maybe he is depressed.  If he could be helped move on with his life, then that would ultimately help his parents.

Sorry it's all a bit long-winded!

g


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## Moral Ethos (23 Jan 2008)

truthseeker said:


> It is not that easy to get a barring order, you must first obtain a protection order, and the person that the order is against is given an opportunity to speak for themselves in court.


That's if he can be bothered to turn up. He sounds like an arrogant man that would thumb his nose at the legal process.


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## truthseeker (23 Jan 2008)

Moral Ethos said:


> That's if he can be bothered to turn up. He sounds like an arrogant man that would thumb his nose at the legal process.


 
Very true.


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## mf1 (23 Jan 2008)

I don't believe that this is a Barring Order situation - there is no violence and no threat of violence. It does not appear as if the safety and welfare of the parents is at risk. It does not appear from the onesided and limited information provided that the parents would be willing to go this road. And unless they are willing to give evidence in Court ( forget about whether the son shows up or not) a Court will not make any Order.

If the parents want this person out of the house, they can do so without a Court Order. They simply remove all his belongings from the house some day when he is not there and change the locks. They probably do not want to do this. Isn't that the start and finish of it? 

If they won't act. If they won't ask others to get involved. If they don't want the emotional fall out of dealing with their son - and the emotional fallout will be there whether they ask the rest of the family to deal with the situation, or instruct a solicitor to write a letter telling him they want him to leave, or seeking a Court Order.  

mf


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## Thirsty (23 Jan 2008)

I agree with mf1 - no barring order or court order is required - the man in question does not have the right to live in the house. I would doubt that an application to get such an order would succeed. His status is that of a guest only and as such he can be asked to leave at any time.


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## truthseeker (23 Jan 2008)

mf1 said:


> I don't believe that this is a Barring Order situation - there is no violence and no threat of violence. It does not appear as if the safety and welfare of the parents is at risk. It does not appear from the onesided and limited information provided that the parents would be willing to go this road. And unless they are willing to give evidence in Court ( forget about whether the son shows up or not) a Court will not make any Order.
> 
> If the parents want this person out of the house, they can do so without a Court Order. They simply remove all his belongings from the house some day when he is not there and change the locks. They probably do not want to do this. Isn't that the start and finish of it?
> 
> ...


 
Very well put MF1 - its quite simple really, if they want him out kick him out and deal with it else put up with him there and deal with that.


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