# what should i do with a mobile scam?



## bluefirefly (8 May 2008)

I have subsribed to a game sms service after seeing an advertisement on Bebo.But on the same day i unsubscribed it.  (18th April)
But im still receiving txts off them now and i just noticed everytime they send me a msg they charge me!! 2.7euros per msg!!  I found the company who operated 57030 ,tried to e-mail them but it bounced back!! 
I havent try call them..but what should i do if i cudnt reach them??


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## ClubMan (8 May 2008)

*Re: what should i do whith a mobile scam?*

Try contacting _ComReg_. Good luck if you do.

www.askcomreg.ie


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## zag (8 May 2008)

Assuming you have unsubscribed as outlined, then this is theft.

I am still amazed that these schemes continue to run and run and take money from peoples phone without any form of effective sanction.  There are regulations covering how to subscribe and unsubscribe - if you have told them that you want to unsubscribe and they have continued to charge you then they are in breach of the regulations (this is for comreg to pursue) and they are also more than likely in breach of their agreement with your carrier by continuing to charge amounts to your phone.

Contact comreg and your carrier and lay out the exact details - for example, subscribed 18APR @ 1045, unsubscribed 18APR @ 1550.  Point out that any charges levied outside this period were unauthorised transactions on your account and insist that they be refunded immediately.  Don't accept that the service provider can't refund the money easily - they can certainly take it from you at will.

Don't let it drop.  It's theft.

z


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## DrMoriarty (8 May 2008)

Good luck. You'll need it.

You might find some useful info in this (rather angry ) old thread.


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## ubiquitous (8 May 2008)

Contact Regtel, the industry "watchdog" (more like a poodle) covering this area. 
Contact your mobile phone company.
Kick up a fuss with both. 
reply "STOP" to one of the texts


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## Alex (8 May 2008)

i have always been affraid of these premium rate text numbers and the reasons why are stated above. i hope you get it sorted. i'd say €2.70 a go adds up quickly. what a rip off.


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## mik_da_man (8 May 2008)

I had a similar problem a good while ago.
Your service provider should be able to give you a contact number using the shortcode that sent you the messages.
If they persist to send messages after you un-subscribed then they should refund the money. I got mine back but only after a good few phone calls
It's was not easy
Mik


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## comanche (8 May 2008)

bluefirefly said:


> I have subsribed to a game sms service after seeing an advertisement on Bebo.But on the same day i unsubscribed it.  (18th April)
> But im still receiving txts off them now and i just noticed everytime they send me a msg they charge me!! 2.7euros per msg!!  I found the company who operated 57030 ,tried to e-mail them but it bounced back!!
> I havent try call them..but what should i do if i cudnt reach them??



reply with the word STOP ... by law they are supposed to remove your subscription to the service.


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## bluefirefly (8 May 2008)

ok. I called them Waited for AGES! got contact to a girl. She said she'll put a stop on the messages.. And very strangely she can predict what i was going to say!
Fist thing she said was "is your problem with the messages coming from the shortcode 57030? and do you want to stop them?" yes " are you looking for a refund?" yes
she took down my details and said she'll pass on to the accounting department and will get contact in 5 days.... do ye think i should have pushed harder? well,at least those rip off texts are gona end..(should be) 

good thing meteor has the view call logs so i copied them so hard evidence!

i just added all the money up (include the cost i spent for STOP, and added up to 30euros!! i didnt top up for awhile and if i did,they would have got more money off me!!! OMG



ps. her name is Emily. took it down just incase.. oh and she said i'll get a free txt saying the service has stopped...but no sign of that after 10mins...i got only 8 cent credit left..they sent me 4 of those stupid msgs today!


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## bluefirefly (8 May 2008)

Alex said:


> i have always been affraid of these premium rate text numbers and the reasons why are stated above. i hope you get it sorted. i'd say €2.70 a go adds up quickly. what a rip off.


 
yep. learned my lesson,never gona do it again! cost me almost 30euros! hopefully refund will be back soon


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## Technologist (8 May 2008)

I asked O2 if they could block all premium-rate and non-personal SMS messages to/from my phone....guess what? They can't (or don't want to).


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## zag (8 May 2008)

They can, but as you note above, they don't want to.  They are in the business of making money and as long as the service providers continue to churn (your) money through them and the carriers make a % on the money that is spent in this way they will continue to not offer the service of blocking these texts.

It is possible that one or other of the regulators might issue a decree which says that carriers must offer this service (which would be a common good) but I wouldn't hold my breath.

There is no technical reason why this service couldn't be offered.

z


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## Lindy (9 May 2008)

I have had the same problem with receiving these service messages from 57030 in the last few weeks. When the messages came in I just deleted them and did not retrieve them as I had no clue what they were. My credit was dwindling very fast so I soon realised that they were costing me money. I have never set up a subscription service in my life so I was less than impressed to find out that they were charging me at least €2.50 per text, possibly up to €5. 

When I rang Vodafone they said it was happening to a lot of people and put me in touch with the company who was sending them (Zamano). Phoned Zamano and they have stopped the texts but they cannot tell me how they got my number as the texts were actually from a company called Blink. They could not give me the details for this company which i find strange.  I said I wanted a refund so they've sent my details to their refund department and I will be told within 4 to 5 working days of what the outcome is. 

I have phoned Comreg to complain and they said all they can do is advise Zamano to contact me to let me know how they got my number (already been told they cannot tell me this) and the date subscription started. If I am not happy with Zamano's response I have to contact Comreg again. I somehow think I will have a battle on my hands to get any refund. I am guessing I have lost about €40 to this scam so I will do all possible to make sure I get my money back.


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## DrMoriarty (9 May 2008)

like they've been around a while.


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## zag (9 May 2008)

Lindy - there's so much wrong there, it is hard to know where to start.

Basically, the powers that be are telling you that some company decided to pick your number and start charging you money without any authorisation and *you* have to pursue the issue.  This is crazy.

Imagine if the banks operated this way - you check your balance and see a daily direct debit coming out. When you pursue it with the bank they tell you that "it all looks OK to us here - these people told us to take money from your account".  This would not be allowed operate like this.  Why on earth should the carriers and service providers be allowed do this ?

If you pass a pickpocket every day and every day he takes a €5 note out of your pocket, would you expect to be told you have to go up to him and ask for your money back when he has *clearly* stolen from you.  Your carrier (and yourself) have an audit trail of the transactions where the money was withdrawn, and there is no record of you approving the transactions . . . what's to argue ?  The money should be refunded.

You could try the data protection commissioner route - it's possible they may be able to help with getting a disclosure of where they got your number from.  However, it is also possible that the company simply made up your number so you may not get anywhere with this.

z


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## ClubMan (9 May 2008)

Lindy said:


> I have phoned Comreg to complain and they said all they can do is advise Zamano to contact me to let me know how they got my number (already been told they cannot tell me this) and the date subscription started. If I am not happy with Zamano's response I have to contact Comreg again.


So have you done this?


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## DrMoriarty (9 May 2008)

RTÉ's _Prime Time_ did a report on this phenomenon a year or two ago (produced by Frank Shouldice and presented by Miriam O'Callaghan) which I can't now find in their online archives. 

I remember at the time some hand-wringing suits from Comreg and Regtel promising that tough new regulations were going to solve the problem. Maybe Uncle Joe and his team might prevail on them to revisit the matter?

I've moved this thread to Consumer Issues and Rights where it more properly belongs.


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## Lindy (9 May 2008)

ClubMan said:


> So have you done this?


 
Not yet. Only made the calls to Zanamo and Comreg this morning so going to wait until the 5 workings days are up and call them again next Thursday if I have not heard anything.  It is unbeliveable how they can think they can get away with this sort of scam.


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## ClubMan (9 May 2008)

Why do you have to wait 5 days when...


Lindy said:


> I have phoned Comreg to complain and they said all they can do is advise Zamano to contact me to let me know how they got my number (already been told they cannot tell me this) and the date subscription started. If I am not happy with Zamano's response I have to contact Comreg again.


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## S.L.F (10 May 2008)

I think the reason people get these texts is because they do so called free competitions.
I was in a pub 1 night and there was a competition for a holiday for 2 weeks in New York.
Simple question what is the other name for New York. Answer The Big Apple
Texted it in.
Within 5 days I was getting those stupid texts.
No more "free" competitions for me.


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## TreeTiger (11 May 2008)

This carry on makes me so angry.  It happened to my mother before Christmas, she's an older user and couldn't figure out where her credit was going, she thought she was leaving the phone "off the hook" or something but eventually realised it might be something to do with the strange texts she was regularly receiving, and deleting straight away as she presumed they were nothing to do with her.

I did a bit of research and ranted at her service provider, my mother also contacted them and complained (and told them I was looking up the internet etc.!), and somehow got refunded enough credit to keep her happy.

A few snippets from the stuff I looked up are quoted below, hopefully they may be of some use.  I had hoped to follow up on this situation soon after Christmas but various other pressures have put it on the back boiler.  But I really think that TDs, Councillors etc. need to be contacted by large numbers of people in an effort to do something about this.

From Regtel's site, a few quotes:

"*Do you dispute that you subscribed?*
              In order to verify a subscription to a Premium Rate Service, you                need to request from the Service Provider - using the menu below                - the date and time that is on their records of your mobile telephone                having subscribed to the service."
[broken link removed] - you can check who is sending unwanted texts by entering the 5 digit code -
"In the event that you discover this service was unsolicited, please write or email us providing all the relevant information to
info@regtel.ie or Cresent Hall, Mount Street Cresent, Dublin 2."

"                  If you have subscribed to a SMS service you should receive:                  
An opt-out information service at regular intervals
On spending €20, you will receive a free reminder message                  containing details of the subscription service, charges and frequency                  of charges and how to exit the service by texting the word stop.
                You should also know that:

An Interactive Service must not exceed €10 in any one transaction per day.
Unsubscribing must only cost a standard rate charge.
If your child has entered a subscription service but does not think they did, were they aware that all advertisements carry an age warning. You should contact the Service Provider for the details. If your child did not interact with the service, you should raise the issue of a refund directly with the Service Provider."
"               If you have tried to unsubscribe or have another query regarding                Premium Rate SMS Services, then call our Call Save number *1850                741 741* and speak to a live operator (this call will cost                you in total 6.35 cent inclusive of VAT)."

I don't know where I got these quotes from, I'm guessing it's Regtel:
 11.1.6 Service Providers are permitted to charge Consumers, whether on a subscription basis or otherwise, only for specific PSMS services and content which the Service Provider can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Regulator the Consumer in question has agreed to receive and pay for.
  11.1.8 Text messages sent and received by Consumers must be stored by the Service Provider for a period of six months from the date of the message.

  11.3.6 Where a Consumer has subscribed to a PSMS Subscription Service and fails to respond to a sent message within 40 days, the Consumer must be opted out or unsubscribed automatically from that an/or related PSMS Subscription Services and must be removed from the database. The charge for unsubscribing/opting out be no more than the standard text charge.  

  Promotion/Marketing
  11.4.4 For the period that a consumer remains on a direct marketing database, Service Providers must retain records of:
  (i) the Consumer opting into the direct marketing database;
  (ii) the Consumer subscribing to a Subscription Service; and
  (iii) the sending and receiving number of the date, time and content of direct marketing promotions.

  The Regulator will investigate complaints … within a three month period from the date the Call complained of was made …

If anyone is seriously interested in campaigning against these texts I would be happy to join in such a campaign and hope to have a bit more time by the end of June.


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## Lindy (14 May 2008)

Blinck phoned me this morning to advise me when and how the texts started. They basically said I signed up on 4 April by putting my number on their website. To which I replied I had not and if someone had done so this should not be allowed as anyone could do that. They said you normally get a password sent to your mobile which you need to put into their website to reconfirm subscription. When I reconfirmed I had not done any of this and I wanted a refund they put me on hold and then said that they were having a technical glitch at the time so this is why the deductions started. A very suspicious response.....

Then then advised that* 57.50* had been deducted from my call credit and I needed to email them with my details to arrange for a refund cheque to be sent out to me. Have sent email off this morning advising I want a response and cheque in post within 24 hours. I await their response!


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## bluefirefly (20 May 2008)

right.its alomost been a week and a half now. still now calls. Rang them again there, and they said there'sa back log and he'll mark my case down as priority..duno about that,have a feeling i migh have to call a lot to catch up with the "back log"


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## circle (21 May 2008)

> I asked O2 if they could block all premium-rate and non-personal SMS messages to/from my phone....guess what? They can't (or don't want to).


 
O2 let you block 'adult' content from your phone, this should cover at least a subset of these services. No harm in doing it if you've no intention of ever using any of them. You can do this on their site also.


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## JoeB (23 May 2008)

Yes, it is a sick joke, and it has been ongoing for a long time.

The mobile phone operators should have responsibilities.. as it is they effectively facilitate the theft by difficult to contact rogue companies.

For example, if you have a dodgy or disputed charge on your credit card, you ring the credit card company and demand to see the authorisation for the charge, if it can't be found you get a refund. Simple.

For phones it should be the same, you contact the mobile phone operator (i.e vodafone) and demand to see the authorisation, if they can't produce it they must refund you... the current situation is that they say you must contact the thieves who have signed you up without consent and request that they stop robbing you... as I said this is tantamount to the mobile phone operators facilitating the theft.

This country is a joke etc etc, as regards broadband provision, premium SMSs etc, COMREG and REGTEL are useless, REGTEL apparently had 30,000 complaints about this in a year, over 90 a day and yet the situation persists. It's clear that in unregulated industries rogues will prosper...

Cheers
Joe


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## conner (24 May 2008)

JoeBallantin said:
			
		

> Yes, it is a sick joke, and it has been ongoing for a long time.
> 
> The mobile phone operators should have responsibilities.. as it is they effectively facilitate the theft by difficult to contact rogue companies.
> 
> For example, if you have a dodgy or disputed charge on your credit card, you ring the credit card company and demand to see the authorisation for the charge, if it can't be found you get a refund. Simple.


I absolutely agree. Here's some background I found in the UK.  It may throw some light as to why this type of billing fraud is being allowed and protected here.

The trade bodies representing the mobile operators and premium rate service/content providers lobbied the UK government for mobile accounts to be exempt from the financial laws and regulations that cover credit/debit card accounts.
This was immediately after the mobile operators payed the UK government £22.4 billion for their billing/operating licences.

In the UK the mobile operators take between 20% to 50% of the revenue before passing the rest on to companies like Zamano and Blinck.
Does anybody know what the revenue share agreement is in Ireland?


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## Mely (3 Jul 2008)

Technologist said:


> I asked O2 if they could block all premium-rate and non-personal SMS messages to/from my phone....guess what? They can't (or don't want to).




They cant, i asked them this already. By law they have to provide a service for customers to allow them to subscribe to these services.
However they can stop calls made to premium rate numbers, adult numbers & international numbers etc.
However, taking away a customers ability to subscribe to ringtones/games/quizzes/pictures etc is something that they simply cant do. Its not a matter of not wanting to do it.


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## DrMoriarty (3 Jul 2008)

Mely said:


> They cant, i asked them this already. By law they have to provide a service for customers to allow them to subscribe to these services. [...] Its not a matter of not wanting to do it.


I'd be interested to hear what law requires this. 



conner said:


> In the UK the mobile operators take between 20% to 50% of the revenue before passing the rest on to companies like Zamano and Blinck.
> Does anybody know what the revenue share agreement is in Ireland?


This would be interesting to know, too.


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## csirl (4 Jul 2008)

Technically speaking, there is nothing to prevent someone who had money stolen in this way to report it to the Gardai as theft and insist on a prosecution. I would imagine that the mobile phone records would be cast iron proof that money was taken. If the company couldnt prove they had your permission, then they'd face criminal prosecution. Whereas Comreg etc are regulators, they are not criminal prosecutors.


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## Complainer (5 Jul 2008)

csirl said:


> Technically speaking, there is nothing to prevent someone who had money stolen in this way to report it to the Gardai as theft and insist on a prosecution.


Apart from the fact that the victims of any crime don't get to 'insist' on a prosecution. The decision to prosecute lies with Garda Superintendent or the DPP, depending on the seriousness of the crime.


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## conner (6 Jul 2008)

You have the same problem here as we have in the UK.  Companies like Zamano operate in the 'regulated' sector.  The police do not accept complaints from the public concerning companies in any of the regulated sectors. They always refer them to the regulator responsible for that sector.  Only the regulator can report these companies to the police.  

The regulators then largely ignore these complaints.   Comreg and Regtel have been protecting these companies from criminal investigation for years.

this is the result
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...rderous-rage-against-rogue-texts-1428415.html

remember o2 and the other Network operators take a large percentage of the money that's being stolen

Zamano is part of The Digital Hub in Dublin
[broken link removed]
*The Digital Hub is an Irish Government initiative* to create an international centre of excellence for knowledge, innovation and creativity focused on digital content and technology enterprises.


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## bluefirefly (14 Aug 2008)

right i duno can i still reply this. been a freakin long while. i was on holidays and i didnt get any voice msg or anything from them!! so i called. my last call was meant to be the 20th May. But she said it was the 8th?(the first time i complaint!!) and then she told me because i opt for the premium txt i dont get a refund. So i told her about the million STOP txts i have sent. then she said she have to get some ppl to investigate on it.....and it'll take bout 4 working days...

man..what do you think guys. think i should just ring them everyday?

-----------
also just called regtel. told me they'll ring the company and see will they respond in 5-7 days. and if they dont. i need top lodge a formal complaint against Zamano


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## Michael (27 Nov 2008)

I have recently been getting premium rate messages from these *******s Zamano. They come in the form of a web text message  called humour.ie that you cannot reply STOP to. 

I called O2 and they provided me with the 57175 number to send STOP to. So I did it and got an unsubscribed message.

I was done for approx 30.00 before i stopped it.

Question: Did anyone successfully get a Refund off these crooks?


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## TreeTiger (27 Nov 2008)

Yes, according to post # 42 on this boards.ie thread last month.  Post # 34 gives the background.


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## PM1234 (27 Nov 2008)

I have a similar query. I got this message a couple of days ago -

"FreeMsg: Welcome to the Tonesuwant club. This is a subscription service at £1.50 per month". From 80160. 

I don't subscribe to any text messaging services. I rang o2 who advised that they do not have any unsubscribe details for third party 80160 and suggested regtel. I went to the regtel website and entered the five digit code but they don't have any matching results.


I'm confused as the original text said free message and £1.50 in the same message. Does anyone know if I'm being charged for this? If so, how do I get out of this service which I definitely did not subscribe to? 

Thanks


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## Michael (28 Nov 2008)

Thanks for that TreeTiger. I will go after them for the money so.


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## zag (28 Nov 2008)

This thing continues to bug me and I've been thinking about the best way to approach it.  One angle you can pursue would be to submit a request under the Data Protection Acts - ask for infomation they hold about you.

They maintain a record of your mobile number - I can't remember for sure, but I would be pretty sure this information is regarded as personally identifiable information on you as it can be used to identify you.  They can't deny they hold this information since they use it to send messages.

Linked to this record, they have to have details of where they got it (data protection) and because they use it for financial purposes they have to retain the records for VAT, audit, etc . . . purposes.

So, they must hold on to the billing details for you and they must provide this under the Data Protection Acts.  They cannot claim it's anything like 'commercially sensitive information' either since your right of access to your data still stands.

If nothing else this will at least mean that you get your full money refunded by them.  And don't let them get away with only refunding the amount they received (your charge, minus the carrier amount, minus VAT, etc . . .) instead of the amount you were charged.

I can't believe this situation continues - it's hard to see it as anything other than high street robbery.  And I can't believe that the carriers continue to facilitate it - pure greed.  And I also can't believe that the 'regulator' hasn't gone stomping in somewhere and shut someone down.

I think I'm going to set up in business next week.  I'll sign up with the carriers (give them 50%, I'm not greedy) and then use their networks to send SMS messages to people saying "Umm, you said I could deduct €4 from your account" and BOOM, take €4 from their credit with their carriers approval.  When people complain I'll spin most of them around the place until they give up, and then when some of them don't drop it I will give them a tennr for their troubles while pocketing the other €50 I took from their account.  God, this money making game is easy.

z


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## HJT (28 Nov 2008)

mik_da_man said:


> I had a similar problem a good while ago.
> Your service provider should be able to give you a contact number using the shortcode that sent you the messages.
> If they persist to send messages after you un-subscribed then they should refund the money. I got mine back but only after a good few phone calls
> It's was not easy
> Mik



The same thing was happened to my then 9 year old son about 2 years ago. He subscribed to a ring tone provider and before he knew it, it was taking 6 euro per week without his or my knowledge. I got the number from the service provider, they were so helpful and gave me loads of advice before I rang the company involved. Eventually after an hour on the phone (after I dropped 'legal action' into the conversation they said they would give me a full refund. I rang everyday until I received the cheque for 82 euro !


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