# What's the point of Postbank? (An Post-Fortis joint venture)



## MugsGame (30 Apr 2007)

Postbank launched yesterday with .

Many questions come to mind
* What is An Post's core mandate and how does this venture serve that mandate?
* The launch products don't seem particularly competitive. How do consumers benefit from this JV? How do An Post shareholders (the state) benefit? 
* The JV hopes to offer current accounts before year end. How does this affect the deal with AIB for limited counter services in post offices?
* Why do we need a semi-state bank? Could the EU object to this JV? (cf recent EU activity against state bank subsidies in Germany.).

An Post have spent €13.9m "in relation to the process of identifying and selecting a joint venture partner, subsequent negotiations and signing of the (JV) agreement". 
* Did the Single European Payments Area feature in this process?
* Did An Post investigate a financial services alliance with foreign state post offices?
* Existing OneDirect products and customers are being moved into this joint venture. Have An Post been adaquately rewarded for sharing this business with Fortis? How? (Bear in mind each owns 50% of the JV.).

Update: An Post's 2006 Annual Report attempts to answer some of these questions: 





> The selection of Fortis, as An Post’s joint venture partner for the provision of retail banking services was a highlight of 2006. Selected in autumn 2005 from a shortlist of four potential partners, Fortis is one of Europe’s largest financial services companies. The market leader in the Benelux countries, it has operations in 20 countries and operates the Belgian Banque de La Poste. With a straightforward value for-money proposition Postbank will be particularly appealing to customers traditionally underserved by the banking sector and the many who have a natural affinity with An Post. I am pleased that this represents genuine fresh thinking within the sector, bringing more to the communities we serve than simply another banking option.
> ...
> The development of this concept was a major project in respect of which exceptional costs amounting to €13.9m were incurred. Full value was achieved in negotiations for An Post’s contribution of the Postpoint and One Direct businesses to the joint venture.


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## Guest124 (30 Apr 2007)

Some good questions -just to add the website www.postbank.ie look's terrible unless they are targeting people with their communion money.


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## 26cb (30 Apr 2007)

I particulary like to solid savings account that looks like it is offering a great rate of -3.3%


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## Murt10 (30 Apr 2007)

Go into a post office and queue up behind the great unwashed waiting to collect their Social Welfare payments.

I think not!!

At least that was the experience I had the last time I went into a post office. 



Murt


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## MugsGame (30 Apr 2007)

Good point Murt. Social Welfare are encouraging payment by electronic funds transfer, which requires a bank account. Postbank may be an attempt to hold onto their "unbanked" customers. Perhaps the target customer is not your typical AAM poster, so value for money is not a chief concern.


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## ClubMan (10 May 2007)

Hmmm ... the snobbery implicit in some of the above posts is quite unwarranted but reflects worse on the posters than on the target of their jibes in my opinion. I know lots of people (who even work and wash regularly  )who, for one reason or another, have never held a "normal" bank account and make do with _An Post _products in particular their _Deposit Account _paying marginal interest (0.1% to 0.25% gross _CAR_!). The _Sure Saver _account paying 3.3% gross _CAR _is attractive to such customers even if there are better offers out there. There are still many people who cannot avail of the best deposit offers because they don't have internet access, because (illogically in my opinion) they don't "trust" online/postal banks without any physical branch network or because they need easy day to day access to the money rather than via internet/phone banking often requiring the use of another regular current account. In fact I was in _Phibsboro PO _this morning opening a joint _Sure Saver _account to replace the joint _An Post Deposit Account _that we use for certain day to day spending and noticed that quite a few people were opening new accounts. Oh - and I didn't have to queue either because there was a teller free when I walked in and the place wasn't that busy as long as I was there. _PostBank _are also promising a current account with an _ATM_/debit card later in the year and this might also be attractive to those who use the _PO _more than other financial institutions. One thing to note for those who might be opening an account is that while the application form suggests that applications in person need only a passport and utility bill the guy at the counter also asked for _PPSN _details which luckily I had brought along just in case.


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## wolfspeed (10 May 2007)

What about the angle of social inclusion - maybe there are those who don't have access to banking services because of distance and a post office is nearer. The Post Office may want their business, whereas banks are distancing themselves from certain communities and pushing online banking.

Maybe their services won't appeal to the majority of the financially sophisticated citizens of the State, but I certainly think there is a niche for this type of service.


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## oldtimer (10 May 2007)

I thoroughly agree with Clubman and Wolfspeed. I think Clubman has covered my sentiments. Many people do not use banks. Credit Unions are used as on demand saving banks by lots of people because of their convenience i.e. opening hours etc. Post-offices are even more convenient, longer opening hours, huge network - can be used anywhere in 26 counties, 3.3% for on demand. Not bad for starters - give them a chance.


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## rock3r (11 May 2007)

Stuff like this simply destroys the fundamentals of most economic thought: that the ordinary earner-spender is a "rational actor", who makes intelligent decisions based on what is most advantageous for her.

If that is the case, why to most Joe Schmucks have bank accounts paying under 0.1% interest (myself included, though in my defence I'm waiting for Rabo to process my application)?

The actual answer is "I'm lazy and easily led by advertising". But economists say I "derive utility" by being ripped off by the bank in this matter. The hell I do! I know when I'm deriving utility and when I'm not bothering to act in my ultimate interests because of proximate lethargy.


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## ClubMan (11 May 2007)

rock3r said:


> But economists say I "derive utility" by being ripped off by the bank in this matter. The hell I do!


Some would argue that through inertia you earn utility by avoiding the hassle of bothering to switch. Of course the utility earned may not be worth the cost!


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## Millix (4 Jan 2008)

Does anyone know when the everyday banking services will be introduced - the website doesn't offer much in terms of details on schedule >>>  


from www.postbank.ie

At Postbank we will have your everyday banking needs covered! We will offer an easy to use current account that you can have your salary or pension paid into, and a combined ATM and debit card that's great for daily withdrawals and payments.​ Check back for updates on the launch of Postbank Daily Banking.​


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## ClubMan (4 Jan 2008)

Well previously they said later in 2007 so draw your own conclusions...


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## ppmoore (22 Jan 2008)

Something that has just occured to me, in the context of the current banking/mortgage/subprime mess. I suppose that the Postbank, being at least partially owned by the state, would offer better deposit protection that the mainline money banks?

Just a thought,
Paul


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## ppmoore (22 Jan 2008)

No, I was wrong, I just found this on their website:

"Postbank is a member of the Investor Compensation Scheme (under
section 38(1) of the Investor Compensation Act, 1998). This provides that
compensation will be payable where money or investment instruments
owed or belonging to clients and held, or in the case of investment
instruments, administered or managed by Postbank, cannot be returned
to those clients for the time being and there is no reasonably foreseeable
opportunity of Postbank being able to do so. Clients eligible under
the scheme may receive 90% of the amount of the Client’s loss which
is recognised for the purposes of the Investor Compensation Act, 1998,
or compensation of up to €20,000, whichever is the lower of the two."


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2008)

Well unlike most or all _An Post_ savings which are state guaranteed :


> *How safe is my money?
> 
> * Postbank is a 50:50 joint venture between An Post, who you know, and Fortis, who ranks among the top 15 financial institutions in Europe and they are present in over 50 countries worldwide Postbank is regulated by the Financial Regulator and is a member of the Deposit Protection Scheme which means that 90% of your total deposits are protected by the Central Bank of Ireland, subject to a maximum compensation of €20,000. Postbank offers the same guarantee on deposits as any other retail bank in Ireland.



_Post crossed with your own!_


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## aonfocaleile (22 Jan 2008)

Joint ventures between postal operators and banks are common across Europe. The logic behind postbank in Ireland is to help support the post office network and attract new business, particularly in rural areas where lack of business has caused hundreds of post offices to close. I imagine the hope is to capitalise in areas where banks have closed branches.


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## oldtimer (22 Jan 2008)

Last May, on this thread, I supported Postbank and stated it should be given a chance. Unfortunately, it hasn't advanced one iota. I opened a solid saver account thinking I would have access to the network of post-offices nationwide. However Postbank only operates at Main post-offices. I live in a rural area, a medium sized village holding on to its post-office, but cannot do any Postbank transactions.


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## ClubMan (22 Jan 2008)

I too sort of defended them but also have to conceded defeat and admit that I have basically ditched the _PostBank _accounts that myself and herself opened. Their failure to roll out the current account services including chequebooks and _ATM_/debit cards as promised is particularly disappointing. On the other hand some of what I posted earlier still stands in relation to it being an option for some people who cannot/will not open a bank account for whatever reason.


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## aonfocaleile (23 Jan 2008)

The lack of a current account facility and ATM cards has also put me off opening an account. As per my previous post, if the reason for postbank is to attract business to post offices, it makes no sense if the services aren't actually available! The opening/launch should have been delayed until such products were widely available. Anyone know how many people have actually opened accounts?


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## csirl (23 Jan 2008)

What country is Fortis based in?


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## aonfocaleile (23 Jan 2008)

Belgium


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## s_loop (18 Mar 2008)

aonfocaleile said:


> The lack of a current account facility and ATM cards has also put me off opening an account. As per my previous post, if the reason for postbank is to attract business to post offices, it makes no sense if the services aren't actually available! The opening/launch should have been delayed until such products were widely available. Anyone know how many people have actually opened accounts?


 

Any update on this aonfocaleile?  I am interested in opening an account but 2 criteria I would have are current account access (including EFT) and branch availability.  Has your experience changed?


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## Fideroiste (5 Apr 2008)

Hi all,
I was talking to a Postbanc staff member last weekend and she said that the CA will be launched in May. I had more questions regarding it that day but the PO was closed 1/2 day that Saturday.
That previous head of An Post was stupid to run the network into the ground, I think Primetime/ Primetime Investigates did a report about that guy, seemed to be pal of Bertie's and more dooge besides. Postbanc should be rolled out across the network it would make such sense and have it as a  local level style bank to communities (or to whats left of the network).

Ádh Mhór,
Fi.


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## serotoninsid (20 May 2008)

I've noticed they've launched their current account now.  As regards ATM use, can it be assumed that their card can be used in all irish ATMs seeing as they dont have their own network of machines?


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## oldtimer (20 May 2008)

ATM card can be used where MAESTRO symbol displayed.


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