# St Vincent's Hospital, Elm Park, Dublin - incoming calls - no caller id



## mathepac (25 May 2022)

I'm a patient at the above hospital, with appointments in 2 departments as well as the day hospital.

Trying to stay in contact with them is a nightmare as the ICT gurus seem to have decided that policy dictates transmitting the outgoing callers' caller ids is banned.

This means that as the call recipient, I get "no caller id" displayed on my phone.  Like a lot of the world, I don't take such calls, for reasons that are well-publicized.

Other parts of the HSE seem to have a similar policy.  Can anyone explain why?


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## huskerdu (25 May 2022)

Loads of organisations and individuals have blocked caller ID. 
Most phone based scammers use a real number. 

Not answering the phone when there is no caller ID does not help avoid scam phone calls, so it is a bit pointless. 
Scam phone calls are obvious within seconds, I just hang up


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

My question is why would any organization choose to withhold their number from outgoing calls?  What benefit is there for them?  What benefit does it bestow on the person they're trying to contact?

Some of the caller id withheld numbers are terminated after 2 or 3 rings, before I can answer.  This is the old courier trick to "prove" they tried to call you to arrange delivery and you were "uncontactable".  One call today went as far as my voicemail and then the caller hung up!!

I got a call back after trying to contact ICT in Vincent's.  The caller, who couldn't answer my query, rang me from a mobile which sent the call-id info and thus got answered.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

huskerdu said:


> Not answering the phone when there is no caller ID does not help avoid scam phone calls, so it is a bit pointless.


I don't share your opinion and it doesn't answer my question.


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## noproblem (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I don't share your opinion and it doesn't answer my question.


Why does it matter to you why they have that policy? I thought the reply from "huskerdu said" was very apt and also true.


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## WaterWater (25 May 2022)

I have a landline with dinosaur phone.  I have no idea who is calling me until I answer the phone. The scammers are immediately obvious so I choose to entertain myself and play along or just hang up.


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## T McGibney (25 May 2022)

huskerdu said:


> Not answering the phone when there is no caller ID does not help avoid scam phone calls, so it is a bit pointless.


Absolutely not true.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> My question is why would any organization choose to withhold their number from outgoing calls?


Because they don't want people calling them back.

I know a hospital consultant who sometimes has to call patients from his mobile number but doesn't want calls or texts back so he hides ID.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I don't share your opinion and it doesn't answer my question.


The vast majority of scam calls now use number spoofing, with a popular one for the last few months to use a number that closely resembles your own. So if your aim is to avoid scam callers, you'd be more likely to avoid them if you didn't answer calls where the number is provided.

Perhaps to get closer to answering the question though, organisations like the HSE will block outgoing number identification is because outgoing calls will use dedicated lines they don't want calls coming in on. It's better have people ring the numbers that are staffed to correctly direct incoming calls than to have people just try phone departments directly.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

WaterWater said:


> I have a landline with dinosaur phone.  I have no idea who is calling me until I answer the phone. The scammers are immediately obvious so I choose to entertain myself and play along or just hang up.


This has no relevance to my post and doesn't answer my original question or the follow ons I asked to clarify.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Because they don't want people calling them back.
> 
> I know a hospital consultant who sometimes has to call patients from his mobile number but doesn't want calls or texts back so he hides ID.


This has no relevance to my post and doesn't answer my original question or the follow ons I asked to clarify.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> This has no relevance to my post


It's an example of a person who works in a hospital who blocks his outgoing caller ID, and why.

I can only speculate that lots of other people who work in hospitals don't want to have to field inbound calls from patients either.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> The vast majority of scam calls now use number spoofing, with a popular one for the last few months to use a number that closely resembles your own. So if your aim is to avoid scam callers, you'd be more likely to avoid them if you didn't answer calls where the number is provided.
> 
> Perhaps to get closer to answering the question though, organisations like the HSE will block outgoing number identification is because outgoing calls will use dedicated lines they don't want calls coming in on. It's better have people ring the numbers that are staffed to correctly direct incoming calls than to have people just try phone departments directly.


I ring specific numbers because those direct lines are staffed by people who can deal with my query directly, without having to ring the "switch-board" and be transferred.  Some switch-boards allow callers to dial the extension they want if they know it.

So in my case, the caller-id is important for me as a service user.  That should be all that's important to the HSE as a service provider.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It's an example of a person who works in a hospital who blocks his outgoing caller ID, and why.
> 
> I can only speculate that lots of other people who work in hospitals don't want to have to field inbound calls from patients either.


Your answers are all speculation with no relevant information in response to my query.


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## huskerdu (25 May 2022)

In answer to your question - Calls from James hospital do not have the caller ID blocked

Its


mathepac said:


> I ring specific numbers because those direct lines are staffed by people who can deal with my query directly, without having to ring the "switch-board" and be transferred.  Some switch-boards allow callers to dial the extension they want if they know it.
> 
> So in my case, the caller-id is important for me as a service user.  That should be all that's important to the HSE as a service provider.



I agree that having access to the correct phone number in the hospital is inmportant. 
THe Vincents hospital  website has a full directoiry









						Telephone Directory - St. Vincent's University Hospital
					






					www.stvincents.ie
				




And my appointment card for Vincents has a fuil list of the phone numbers for all out patients department on the back whch is very handy


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> Like a lot of the world, I don't take such calls, for reasons that are well-publicized.





huskerdu said:


> Not answering the phone when there is no caller ID does not help avoid scam phone calls, so it is a bit pointless.





mathepac said:


> I don't share your opinion and it doesn't answer my question.



You asked a question and you explained why you don't answer no caller ID calls.

huskerdu helpfully explained to you that this is not a reason for not answering no caller ID calls.

Brendan


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I ring specific numbers because those direct lines are staffed by people who can deal with my query directly, without having to ring the "switch-board" and be transferred.  Some switch-boards allow callers to dial the extension they want if they know it.
> 
> So in my case, the caller-id is important for me as a service user.  That should be all that's important to the HSE as a service provider.


Great, you ring the correct numbers that are staffed for incoming calls. 

The people ringing you from within the departments will often be calling you from different lines, ones that are not staffed for incoming calls.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

huskerdu said:


> In answer to your question - Calls from James hospital do not have the caller ID blocked
> 
> Its
> 
> ...


My issue isn't phoning any organization or parts thereof, my issue is with accepting incoming calls with no caller-id displayed from anyone. I already said that IME it is the policy in certain parts of the HSE.  

My question remains unanswered - "Why?"  Where's the benefit for me as a service user and where's the benefit for the service provider?

Scams have been mentioned a number of times by a number of posters. Why? I never alluded to scams in any of my preceding posts


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> The people ringing you from within the departments will often be calling you from different lines, ones that are not staffed for incoming calls.


All the more reason for them to send the caller id as the number is not the default I have in my contacts.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

huskerdu said:


> Loads of organisations and individuals have blocked caller ID.
> Most phone based scammers use a real number.
> 
> Not answering the phone when there is no caller ID does not help avoid scam phone calls, so it is a bit pointless.
> Scam phone calls are obvious within seconds, I just hang up


I never said anything about scams or scammers in my OP.  Why jump to the assumption that's why I don't accept calls from unidentified callers?

@brendan opinion is that your reply is helpful, I'm afraid I don't agree


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## dereko1969 (25 May 2022)

Why not ask St Vincents or the HSE as you're obviously not going to be satisfied with any answer provided here.


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## Peanuts20 (25 May 2022)

In my own experience, I'm far more likely to get a scam call from an actual shown number then a withheld one. At the end of the day, whoever does ring you, it's up to yourself if you engage or don't engage so I don't really see any additional risk from answering a withheld number. 

Bizarre as it may sound,  if you answer it too fast then on some occassions, the packet of data saying where the call is coming from may not have had time to reach your phone display, especially if it comes from a VOIP phone system (Voice over Internet protocal), in effect someone calling from something other then a mobile or landline)

Certainly I've experienced similar calls from withheld numbers regarding elderly parents from a hospital. One reason I can see is if the consultants is doing the rounds, rings from a landline in one ward and then moves on to the next ward, there is no point in dialling back and possibly the view in the hospital may be to try and minimise call backs as they need someone there to answer the phones.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I got a call back after trying to contact ICT in Vincent's.  The caller, who couldn't answer my query, rang me from a mobile which sent the call-id info and thus got answered.


@dereko1969 if you want to help please read the rest  of the thread before replying. [EDITED to correct misspellings]


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## dereko1969 (25 May 2022)

Hadn't had a scam call in weeks and within seconds of replying to this thread I got one!


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

Peanuts20 said:


> In my own experience, I'm far more likely to get a scam call from an actual shown number then a withheld one. At the end of the day, whoever does ring you, it's up to yourself if you engage or don't engage so I don't really see any additional risk from answering a withheld number.
> 
> Bizarre as it may sound,  if you answer it too fast then on some occassions, the packet of data saying where the call is coming from may not have had time to reach your phone display, especially if it comes from a VOIP phone system (Voice over Internet protocal), in effect someone calling from something other then a mobile or landline)
> 
> Certainly I've experienced similar calls from withheld numbers regarding elderly parents from a hospital. One reason I can see is if the consultants is doing the rounds, rings from a landline in one ward and then moves on to the next ward, there is no point in dialling back and possibly the view in the hospital may be to try and minimise call backs as they need someone there to answer the phones.


I'll say it again.  My OP has nothing to do with scam calls nor has it anything to do with wandering consultants. I also wait for caller-ids to be displayed to decide whether to take the call or ring back later.


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## arbitron (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> My question is why would any organization choose to withhold their number from outgoing calls?  What benefit is there for them?  What benefit does it bestow on the person they're trying to contact?


Sometimes these decisions are made in long meetings where a dozen other pressing things are also being decided, so the details get lost. It's likely that either the Private Number is a default setting or at the point in time where they chose it they felt there was some benefit. As others have said, it's possible they're trying to minimise callbacks to switchboards or wards.

This is affecting you negatively and it's a reasonable complaint, so I would suggest you contact the hospital in writing to ask them to change it. I would write to the CEO, copying the COO, head of ICT, and the Patient Support service. Lay out the issues and your solution. You might be surprised.


mathepac said:


> Some of the caller id withheld numbers are terminated after 2 or 3 rings, before I can answer.  This is the old courier trick to "prove" they tried to call you to arrange delivery and you were "uncontactable".  One call today went as far as my voicemail and then the caller hung up!!


When you're calling from within some systems you can hear extra rings before the recipient phone rings, so they may hear 6 or 7 rings when you only get 2 or 3, so they hang up. 

It's unlikely that people are routinely ringing just to prove they have called you. Most hospital phone systems don't have detailed logs so they wouldn't have anything to show. Also no-one is realistically going to monitor or investigate that. Anyone making these calls is busy and would love to get it sorted on the first attempt. It's much more likely that people are trying to get through a heap of work and do not have the time to wait.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> Like a lot of the world, I don't take such calls, for reasons that are well-publicized.



mathepac

If you make a vague comment like this, people will assume that you are referring to scams.  You may well be referring to something else.  But we can't list out all the possibilities and reply to all of them.  

If you said, I don't take calls where the ID is not showing, because I have a stalker, then we could have dealt with that. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2022)

dereko1969 said:


> Hadn't had a scam call in weeks and within seconds of replying to this thread I got one!



Was it mathepac?


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## Itchy (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I also wait for caller-ids to be displayed to decide whether to take the call or ring back later.



You decided to not answer your own phone and its the HSE's fault?!


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> All the more reason for them to send the caller id as the number is not the default I have in my contacts.


Not really, it makes little sense to display a number for a phone that might be unattended much of the day, or is in a treatment area where staff already have more than enough work to do without adding fielding calls from people whose records they will have no access to. That would be a waste of time and very poor service.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

OK Leo, the caller id thing is one of a very long list of poor services from and by the HSE. In itself it's a disgrace, but wait 'til you hear the rest.

If you'd like to hear the background and promise not to delete the post or lock the thread,  I'll provide the details and name the hospitals but not the doctors concerned.

It started on Dec 8th, 2021 when I attended my GP for my COVID booster.  He remarked I seemed to have lost a lot of weight and looked decidedly unwell.  He ran a battery of tests and concluded that the best place for me was hospital. Although he said he could offer me prescriptions to take home and fill, he felt the best place for me was hospital, so I drove myself there.  He phoned ahead and also gave me a letter to hand in at admission.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

Itchy said:


> You decided to not answer your own phone and its the HSE's fault?!


I've already explained all that.  Why choose to ridicule it?  It concerns my health, or rather issues with my health.  I'm glad it can be made into a  source of tasteless and inconsiderate amusement for you and others.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

Leo said:


> Not really, it makes little sense to display a number for a phone that might be unattended much of the day, or is in a treatment area where staff already have more than enough work to do without adding fielding calls from people whose records they will have no access to. That would be a waste of time and very poor service.


Except for the fact, that the numbers I'm writing about are staffed on an ongoing basis through working hours by appointment secretaries and nurse specialists across a number of disciplines in three hospitals.  Vincent's happens to be the most recent point of contact with the HSE.


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## Leo (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> Except for the fact, that the numbers I'm writing about are staffed on an ongoing basis through working hours by appointment secretaries and nurse specialists across a number of disciplines in three hospitals.  Vincent's happens to be the most recent point of contact with the HSE.


Hold on, you said that the numbers that are calling you are not showing caller ID... How do you know they the same as the staffed lines? You know a lot of the appointments scheduling calls are made from outside the dept. right?  These staff can WFH too.


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## Sue Ellen (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> It started on Dec 8th, 2021 when I attended my GP for my COVID booster. He remarked I seemed to have lost a lot of weight and looked decidedly unwell. He ran a battery of tests and concluded that the best place for me was hospital. Although he said he could offer me prescriptions to take home and fill, he felt the best place for me was hospital, so I drove myself there. He phoned ahead and also gave me a letter to hand in at admission.



Hi mathepac,

Sorry to hear you are having health problems and hope that you will be on the road to recovery soon.

S.E.


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## Itchy (25 May 2022)

mathepac said:


> I've already explained all that.  Why choose to ridicule it?  It concerns my health, or rather issues with my health.  I'm glad it can be made into a  source of tasteless and inconsiderate amusement for you and others.



Sorry math, I'm on your side here. What is more important that your health? What are you avoiding (by not answering your phone) that you have decided is more important than a vital health communication, that you are expecting to receive? It seems you have decided to take preventative measures that could have consequences for your health, a pyrrhic course of action that seems to be mystifying the board.


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## mathepac (25 May 2022)

@Leo Because  when they've phoned alternate numbers (NOK) they give the numbers & departments they ring from, typically central appointments or specific departments. Why complicate a simple question with pointless and unhelpful input? Three hospitals including Vincents across multiple disciplines, oncology, radiology, ENT, urology and imaging all have the same issue - non-transmission of caller ids.  Why?


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## Brendan Burgess (26 May 2022)

I don't think we are going to get an answer to this. 

@mathepac  - hope your treatment goes well.

Brendan


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