# Property Management Co and clamping



## Dsh130 (4 Dec 2007)

Can anyone advise me in relation to the following. It's a bit longwinded

Our apartment block have a management co who hired a clamping company with a permit disc system. The system was introduced in May of this year.  

I applied but never got a disc and to be honest forgot about it.  

About a month ago I got clamped at the weekend and could only pay and appeal as permits office was shut at weekend. 

They charge 90 euro per day. 

They told me they wrote to me in July to say I hadn't provided proof of residence, but they wrote to us in the first place.  I never received correspondence. They told me to apply again, that i was not entitled to a refund as i failed to display a disc so to reapply and they would cover my car up to last Friday.  

I was clamped at 5am on Monday morning.  I went out to the clampers who completely ignored me.   The clamping company came and unclamped my car at 11am. 

I complained to one of my neighbours who is on the board of the management co who hired the other managment co who hired the clamping company who says that it has nothing to do with them whatsoever.  

The clamping company says they only act for their client, the property management company (who act on behalf of board of the residents local property management co who say it is the clampers problem).  

...Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated....


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## ClubMan (4 Dec 2007)

*Re: Property Management Co*

Your post is a bit confusing and seems to be mixing up the management company (which you, if you are a householder rather than a tenant, should be a member/shareholder of), the management agent (who may be engaged by the management company to take care of day to day management issues) and the clamping company (who are presumably a third party in all of this?). I don't understand the references to/distinction between property management company and residents local property management company. Surely you just need to sort this out with the property mangement company of which you are a member?


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## Dsh130 (5 Dec 2007)

*Re: Property Management Co*

It is confusing Yes I am a member of management company who appear to give free reign to mgt agent. 

My management company have informed me that the management agent are responsible for running of apt block.  Management Agent issue general notices on behalf of management company saying they cannot intervene if clamped.  The Management Company also  keep telling me to contact Management Agent as they dont deal with running of apt block and mgt agents then say to contact Clampers directly who say they deal only off the instructions of the Management Agent. 

Received a phone call from Chairman of Management Company yesterday saying it was a disgrace and that i should claim from clampers directly. Is it not their fault?

Again, if you have any insight?


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## ClubMan (5 Dec 2007)

*Re: Property Management Co*

There seem to be two issues:

Redress (e.g. refund of charges?) for previous clamping incidents - sounds like you need to pester the clamping company about this. If that fails then you have a right as a member of the management company to raise it with them - now or at a general meeting I presume?
Avoiding getting clamped again - surely you just need to get the relevant permission/exemption as a resident to avoid this again?


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## ajapale (5 Dec 2007)

Moved from Location, Location, Location to Mortgages and Buying and Selling Homes
which is where other discussions relating to Property Mgt Companies can be found.


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## CCOVICH (6 Dec 2007)

It is not the management company's fault as such-they may have voted to introduce clamping, but the administration of the system will be handled in the first instance by the agent, and then by the clampers themselves. You need to raise it with the clamper first, if you get no satisfaction there, go to the the agent, and lastly the board of management.


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## Dsh130 (6 Dec 2007)

Thanks for your advice.

Have applied twice to clamping company for relevant permit. There is obviously an administration issue because they tell you that they never received your application or they replied to you three months later and you are put on a Do Not Clamp List.  

I have no problem with having the relevant disc but when i look out every morning and see various cars clamped I do think the MC do have some responsibility if there is no doubt complaints being made to them about the adminsitration of the permits and all you get is a General Notice from the agent stating it has nothing to do with them.

 Re refunds from clampers have applied and not heard back am on a Do not clamp list for another two weeks and told if i do not get my permit processed by then they will put me on for a following two weeks.

 Lots of residents (11)  have been clamped at this stage who have all applied for permits and not received them and the clampers come regardless and you are told that you can pay and appeal, The clamping co will put you on a Do not clamp list. 

But what i want to know is if as a member you don't agree with the clamping strategy as is do you have to get every member to sign a petition or can you call a meeting and have enough people at it to disagree for it to be got rid of or is the board of the mc the only people who can call a meeting.  

The original reason it was voted in was on the basis at a meeting that residents would report unauthorised cars to the clamping company and even then there wasn't that many.  The MC said that noone did this so they gave permission for the clampers to come in when they felt like it.  You do feel that you are constantly been conned but thanks for your advice.


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## CCOVICH (6 Dec 2007)

Dsh130 said:


> but what i want to know is if as a member you don't agree with the clamping strategy as is do you have to get every member to sign a petition or can you call a meeting and have enough people at it to disagree for it to be got rid of or is the board of the mc the only people who can call a meeting.  The original reason it was voted in was on the basis at a meeting that residents would report unauthorised cars to the clamping company and even then there wasn't that many.  The MC said that noone did this so they gave permission for the clampers to come in when they felt like it.



In short, if the owners have full control of the management company, then it is one member, one vote, and you can vote the exisiting board out, and then fire the agent, or direct them to act in accordance with the wishes of the majority.  It sounds like you need to start canvassing support to call a meeting on this issue if it is proving so contentious.

Why was clamping introduced-are there commuters or other non-residents habitually making use of private spaces?


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## robd (6 Dec 2007)

Dsh130 said:


> Thanks for your advice.
> 
> Have applied twice to clamping company for relevant permit. There is obviously an administration issue because they tell you that they never received your application or they replied to you three months later and you are put on a Do Not Clamp List.
> 
> ...



11 is stronger than 1.

Clamping on private property in Ireland is not very well regulated.  Provided a notice is up to say clamping is in force they can clamp you.  The appeals process is internal to the clamping company so little chance of success with that.

All 11 of you need to write a letter together demanding a refund.  If this is not forthcoming then I would suggest the legal route.  I don't know if you can use the small claims court or not.  You'd have to check with them.  Certainly all 11 of you hiring the 1 solicitor would be economical.

Also, your management company can instruct the management agent to end the contract with the clamping company.


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## ajapale (6 Dec 2007)

robd said:


> I don't know if you can use the small claims court or not.


 No, this is not a consumer issue so you cant use the small claims court.


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## extopia (6 Dec 2007)

What's the reason for waiting ages for a permit? Therein lies the problem, I suspect. How hard is it to issue permits to known residents in a small estate? From what you've said, whoever is responsible for this is obviously incompetent.

Can't blame the clampers. Blame the administrators and seek redress from them.


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## Dsh130 (7 Dec 2007)

Thanks for all advice.

Have gone all routes  - the management agent operate out of Mullingar and seem to only deal direclty with the Board. The MC are sympathetic but seem to think it has nothing to do with them. They did contact the clampers on my behalf and I received a call this morning to say the clamping co have agreed to refund me. However the permits are up again in April and as I do see as some sort of "deal" between the agent and the clamper and no doubt will be penalised again when they say no applications were received etc.  

When the board suggested clamping originally it was dummy clamping notices as there is a housing estate right beside it that used to use it.  Parking is not designated but the Board have now designated a visitor area and if your car (visitors have to have permits too) is there longer than 3 hours it too can be clamped.  Does anyone have the same experience.  i found out from solicitor that board should have got agreement from each member owner re designation.  The real clamping started when there was a change of management agent who operate out of wexford. The maintenance was marginally cheaper but would rather not have the inconvenience.

At present the Board are refusing to hold a meeting with members.  They told me that they will have a budget meeting and this will be on the agenda. 

I don't necessarily want to get rid of the board but surely they are the ones who can get rid of the clampers... 

Thks


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## mercman (7 Dec 2007)

Are the Management Agents in Mullingar or Wesford ?? This is a bit of a Geography Lesson !! Where is the Block of Apartments ??

It sounds like that the MA have a deal with the clampers. The more they clamp, the more they earn -- so everybody is winning and the owners are becoming justfiably cheesed off. I ahve never heard of Visitors geting clamped like that. Why don't they issue permits for Visitors which can be returned when the visitors are leaving.

As you are amember of the MC you can demand that an EGM be called to sort out this matter and in the event of same, a quorum at a meeting normally suffices, but you will ahve to check the M & A of the company.


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## Dsh130 (13 Dec 2007)

Thks for all repsonses, have been away but no further updates, have asked for a meeting on 3 separate ocasions, the MC not obviously keen to do so, the requests have been ignored so have been told by my solicitor that only opportunity is agm next year to vote out these decisions, and that i would need much stronger support than 11. Feeling on the ground residents are not happy so imagine that meeting will be explosive but not sure anybody wants to be on the board and there lies the problem.

MA are based in Mullingar (board backed this decision because they gave a cheaper quote which isnt that significantly cheaper) Apt Block in south dublin MA not contactable to residents you respond to MC who give mobile numbers - all avenues are through the board-think there must be other similar situations with apartment block living -

solicitor tells me ito try and get meeting with MC but that they are wrong legally in designating visitor parking. He told me that the Board should have got written agreement from owners as on their deeds eventhough parking is not designated there is an entitlement to 1.5 car spaces per apt so board were not able to make this decision at a meeting with just a quorum.

I have also been told that the regulator is in next year or year after but understand this is voluntary so naturally wont be of that much assistance.


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## mercman (13 Dec 2007)

You need to check the M & A of the Managment Company.This will decide on the matter of calling an EGM, rather than waiting till the Annual Meeting.Also you will able to determne regarding the quorum matter as well.


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