# Pension advice required.



## TrotterDel (12 Mar 2018)

I have a personal pension for the last thirty years funded by myself only. At age sixty onwards I can withdraw 25% but must buy a pension with the balance. The fund has about 90/100k in it hence after taking 25% the pension is very small. My preference would be to find a facility to withdraw the total amount out at age sixty onwards. I am with my current employer for thirity years plus but we dont have a company pension plan in place , that said they would consider setting up a one person plan for me provided it was legal.

All advice appreciated - thanks.


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## Steven Barrett (12 Mar 2018)

Your employer can make a massive contribution to a pension on your behalf...if they wanted to. 

Your choices for the benefits as is are very limited and not very attractive. 

After the lump sum, you can purchase an annuity or invest in an ARF. You will have to put €63,500 aside into an AMRF or purchase an annuity with the amount. You can only access 4% of the AMRF. You can access the full amount of the ARF at any time. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## TrotterDel (13 Mar 2018)

Can I take the cash sum and put the balance into an ARF ? 

Thanks,
TD


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## Steven Barrett (13 Mar 2018)

No, you must satisfy the AMRF requirement. Article on option here


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## TrotterDel (13 Mar 2018)

If I start a one person company pension plan now (current age 55) can I transfer my personal pension into it at age sixty ? if so would this then allow me take 1.5 times my salary out as a cash sum ?


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## Steven Barrett (14 Mar 2018)

You won't be eligible for 1.5 times salary lump sum. That's the maximum lump sum payable based on 40 years service. You will be entitled to 15/80 as a lump sum and you will have to purchase an annuity with the remainder.

And if you've worked for the same employer for 30 years, set up your own company and bill that same employer, the Revenue will think there's something dodgy going on. 

(edit: I misread the post I was answering and thought the poster was talking about a one person company like a service company)


Due to the AMRF requirement, the options available to people with small pension pots is awful. There's nothing we can do under the current legislation.




Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## RETIRED2017 (14 Mar 2018)

SBarrett said:


> You won't be eligible for 1.5 times salary lump sum. That's the maximum lump sum payable based on 40 years service. You will be entitled to 15/80 as a lump sum and you will have to purchase an annuity with the remainder.
> 
> And if you've worked for the same employer for 30 years, set up your own company and bill that same employer, the Revenue will think there's something dodgy going on.
> 
> ...


 Steven My understanding was you could get 1.5 times salary once you have 20 years pension contributions,


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## Steven Barrett (14 Mar 2018)

RETIRED2017 said:


> Steven My understanding was you could get 1.5 times salary once you have 20 years pension contributions,



That is correct. It isn't relevant to the OP's request as he will only have 5 years service. 


...There's a lot of exceptions to pensions rules that if we gave them all in every answer, we'd be here all day!


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## RETIRED2017 (14 Mar 2018)

SBarrett said:


> That is correct. It isn't relevant to the OP's request as he will only have 5 years service.
> 
> 
> ...There's a lot of exceptions to pensions rules that if we gave them all in every answer, we'd be here all day!



Well how much time would it take up to outline the exceptions on buying back 15 years to bring him past the 20 years seeing he has close to 100K in a private pension already, seeing the company said they would help once it was legal,


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## TrotterDel (14 Mar 2018)

Hi guys thanks for your interest - let me clarify - I am not leaving my current employer of 32 years they are allowing me to set up a one person company pension plan provided its legal which I believe it is.
They are prepared to contribute the minimum amount which I think is 10% of my payment.
I am a PAYE worker and this will continue.

So if I start a one person company pension plan now (current age 55) can I transfer my personal pension into it at age sixty ? if so would this then allow me take 1.5 times my salary out as a cash sum ?


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## Conan (14 Mar 2018)

Assuming you are working with a Defined Contribution Occupational Pension (not a Personal Pension or PRSA) you have two options re the lump sum at retirement:
- you can take 25% of the fund as a lump sum and use the 75% to either buy an Annuity or invest into an ARF/ AMRF, or
- you can take up to 150% of Final Salary as a lump sum ( provided you have a minimum of 20 years completed service with the Employer from which you are retiring). If the service is less than 20 years then the lump sum is reduced. However if you take this option you must buy an Annuity with any balance remaining.
As a general rule, one should try to maximize the lump sum as it is tax free (up to €200,000). So if the 150% gives a higher figure than the 25% (even if it uses up all the fund) then that may be the best route. Remember that any pension income is potentially taxable.
So if the OP has a fund of circa €100k, service of 20 years or more and a Final Salary in excess of say €66,000 then they could take all the fund as a tax free lump sum.


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## TrotterDel (14 Mar 2018)

Its a personal pension plan I am trying to transfer into a new one person company pension plan.
I have 32 years service with my current employer.


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## Gordon Gekko (14 Mar 2018)

TrotterDel said:


> Its a personal pension plan I am trying to transfer into a new one person company pension plan.
> I have 32 years service with my current employer.



Which can’t be done; personal pensions can’t be transferred into company pensions.


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## TrotterDel (14 Mar 2018)

My understanding is that it can be transferred into a PRSA then onto a new one person company pension plan provided I have twenty years plus service with my current employer.


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## Gordon Gekko (14 Mar 2018)

TrotterDel said:


> My understanding is that it can be transferred into a PRSA then onto a new one person company pension plan provided I have twenty years plus service with my current employer.



Correct on the first point, it can be moved into a PRSA and then onwards to a company pension. But the 20 year point is a red herring.


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## TrotterDel (14 Mar 2018)

* But the 20 year point is a red herring * - explain please in more detail.


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## Conan (14 Mar 2018)

In terms of transferring, yes you can go Personal Pension to PRSA to Occupational Pension. But there is no requirement for 20 years service in this regard. The 20 years is only an issue in terms of going the 150% of Final Salary route for lump sums.


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## Gordon Gekko (14 Mar 2018)

TrotterDel said:


> * But the 20 year point is a red herring * - explain please in more detail.



There’s no 20 year condition with regard to such transfers. There’s a 15 year rule in terms of transfers from company pensions to PRSAs; is that what you’re thinking of perhaps?


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## dan rather (14 Mar 2018)

you could get an annuity rather than an ARF  if you dont need to leave any money for your estate when you die


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## TrotterDel (15 Mar 2018)

Can I transfer my personal pension into a PRSA then onto an ARF ? if so this would allow me access to the money ?


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## TrotterDel (21 Mar 2018)

Can I transfer my personal pension into a PRSA then onto an ARF ?  if so would this allow me access to the money ?

Just wondering can anyone answer the above question ? if the answer is yes will I have to pay tax on monies withdrawn ?

All advice appreciated - thanks.


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## Gordon Gekko (21 Mar 2018)

Not until you’re 60


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