# Unemployment benefits for returning emmigrants



## beffers (11 Mar 2011)

My cousin is returning to Ireland after 15 yrs living overseas. She paid PRSI contributions for 5 years prior to moving to Oz. Does she have any entitlement to job seekers allowance, unemployment allowance or renters allowance while she job hunts? Do her 5 yrs of contributions, albeit 15 yrs ago, entitle her to anything at all?

On another site, I read that you have to be living in Ireland for 2 yrs before you can claim anything. Another poster said that it can be a judgement call of your case worker in your local social welfare office. 

For the past few years, she has lived here on and off while helping to take care of elderly relations. She is only making the permanent move now. When she was here, the house she lived in was owned by her mother, and the household bills were all in her mothers name. As a result, she has nothing on paper that proves residency, but she was often here for months at a time. What do they use to determine when her legal residency actually started?

I understand that qualified applicants have to means tested. She has a few bob in her Australian savings account. Does she have to declare those savings & is there a specific amount ceiling wise that you have to come in under to qualify for benefits?


Thanks for any advice.


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## eastbono (11 Mar 2011)

She can apply for Jobseekers Allowance which will be means tested.http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/unemployed.aspx She will also have to fill out Habitual Residence Condition Form.http://www.welfare.ie/en/Search/Pages/SearchResult.aspx?k=habitual+residence
While she is waiting for the above to be processed she can apply for supplementary welfare allowance from community welfare office but she will have to prove habitual residence for this as well


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## beffers (11 Mar 2011)

Thanks for that.

She has already found an apartment, and has agreed to pay a deposit and sign a lease in her name. The phone, gas, electricity etc services will also be in her name. She also has close family members (a sibling & nephews & cousins) living in Ireland. That will satisfy the habitual residency requirement, right? I did not see anything there about the 2 yr rule, but maybe I was not looking hard enough.


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## gipimann (12 Mar 2011)

There is no 2 year rule, which is why you can't find it.

Habitual Residence is based on the person's Centre of Interest - renting a property doesn't prove or disprove it of itself.   

The Dept of Social Protection will look at how long she's been away, what ties she may still have in the other country (property, family, job, bank accounts, etc), what family or other ties are here in Ireland, etc, reason for coming to Ireland.

All savings, whether in Ireland or elsewhere must be declared - there is a disregard of 20.000 euro for Jobseeker's Allowance, 5,000 for Supplementary Welfare Allowance.


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## beffers (12 Mar 2011)

Thanks for that. She does not own property or have a job or family in Australia. She has a bank account that she would rather not close, as it would be handy to keep if she ever goes back there on holidays. She is named as co account holder on the checking account of an elderly relative whose financial affairs she helps regulate. She gets no financial benefit from this account at all. Every single cheque that she writes goes to pay bills for our relative. The account is with Ulster Bank in the North, even thought both she and our relative reside in the Republic. I do not see why she should have to declare this account. Is there a way for the Irish Dept of Social Protection to check on what people do or do not have in other countries, or does the honour system apply?


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## gipimann (13 Mar 2011)

No, the honour system does not apply, all savings must be declared, otherwise any application may be considered fraudulent.   If the money in the account isn't actually hers, then there should be no difficulty with it in terms of her application and the means test.


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## Guest105 (13 Mar 2011)

beffers said:


> Is there a way for the Irish Dept of Social Protection to check on what people do or do not have in other countries, or does the honour system apply?


 

What is the honour system?


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## horusd (13 Mar 2011)

cashier said:


> What is the honour system?


 
Taking people at their word.


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## Guest105 (13 Mar 2011)

Thanks, I don't know if that is a good idea when it comes to social welfare claims


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## Bronte (14 Mar 2011)

There is no way the Dept of Social Welfare can check accounts in Australia.  But anyone who lived in Australia would have to have had a normal current account.  Not sure the Dept can ask banks in Ireland even for details on customers, they would have to get the consent of the person applying for dole.  

This issue on returning Irish emigrants was on the radio recently and people were refused welfare due to a mis application of the rules or applying the rules too strictly.  If I remember correctly one guy was even asked why did he return, it was worse than that but can't remember all the details.  Just thought as an emigrant myself how charming it was for social welfare to deal with people going through the trauma of returning to Ireland having left and having to now deal with that as well.


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## partnership (14 Mar 2011)

I would doubt if she would satisfy the habitual residency rule if she has been away for the last 15 years.  This rule is where you have had your main centre of interest - ie over the last few years 2 of those years should have been here.  She is mad to set up an apartment unless she can pay for it without welfare.  If however she gets a job and pays a few contributons her old contributions may kick in.  She reallys hould ring social welfare and check it out.


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## Bronte (14 Mar 2011)

Habitual residency according to Gipemann, who knows his stuff, is based on a few things.  Property, job, family and bank accounts.  That would to me mean that OP should prove he has all those things in Ireland and none in Oz.  So that the social welfare officer making the decision can weight it up on the side of habitual residency in Ireland.  So OP has no property in either country, presumable aunts, uncles, nieces.... all of Ireland as relations, no job in either country and a few accounts to be opened in Ireland and close all Oz accounts to get him over the line of habitual residency.  Needs to make himself tick those boxes correctly.


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## Bronte (14 Mar 2011)

Forgot to add that it is insulting in the extreme, especially as an emmigrant myself that the government would put such a rule/test/law on their own.  Disgraceful.


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## Mrs Vimes (14 Mar 2011)

The habitual residency rule was brought in to prevent "welfare tourism". It is illegal to apply different criteria to an Irish citizen than to any other EU citizen.  This is why the rule was imposed on "their own".


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## beffers (15 Mar 2011)

Totally, totally agree Bronte. Disgraceful doesn't even begin to describe it !

I don't want to turn this into a "them" versus "us" scenario. My hat is off to all those people who have made a better life for themselves in Ireland, than they could have ever expected in their birth countries. I applaud anyone with a decent work ethic, regardless of where they are from.

It just strikes me as very, very unfair that the Irish government treats the native born Irish as second class citizens in their own country, where they have to prove their connections to their native country, just as much as those who are just off the boat from God knows where, and have zero ties to the country, other than knowing that it has a reputation for being an easy mark for social welfare spongers. 

My cousin was born and bred in Ireland. She worked here for years, and paid taxes and PSRI contributions for years. For the past several years she has been willing to put her life in Oz on hold, & help take care of elderly family members in Ireland. She has never once asked for anything in return, often at great financial and emotional expense to herself. Lord know how much money she has saved the Irish tax payer in Care Givers allowances over the years. Now she is willing to do it in situ on a permanant basis, but she has to "prove" how Irish she is, just so that she can get some financial help, as she is once again willing to be of incalculable assistance to her extended family? (She is a nurse, specializing in geriatric care btw.) It is a VERY screwed up system imo !


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## casey (6 Jul 2011)

Here are some good news for returning emigrants:


> THE GOVERNMENT has issued new guidelines to staff working in social  welfare offices to try to prevent hundreds of returning emigrants from  being unfairly refused welfare under residency rules.
> At least 650  Irish citizens who returned from abroad to live in Ireland were refused  social welfare last year for failing to meet the habitual residence  condition – a set of rules introduced to prevent welfare tourism within  the EU.
> In 2009, a further 738 Irish citizens were refused welfare  for failing to meet the complex residency rules, which measure a  person’s connection to the State to assess if they should get welfare.
> The  true number of returning emigrants denied payments is probably much  higher because the Health Service Executive does not compile statistics  for the number of people refused supplementary welfare allowance – an  emergency payment commonly paid to those people most in need of support.
> ...


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## Guest105 (6 Jul 2011)

I am sure alot of Irish people returning from abroad will be very relieved to hear of this change of heart by the powers that be and about time too. 

 casey - thank you for posting this very welcome update.


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