# Bullying / mental harassment in workplace



## HomersCash (17 Feb 2006)

Hi all,

   Not going to go into details.
Long story short - recently moved jobs (previous company 6 yrs), and after a number of weeks of thinking Im just new, its just part of the learning curve etc, etc...realised that my immediate supervisor is deliberately (why I dunno) bullying me.
No unions or anything here - technology company.
I don't want to get into the specific or the details or issues regarding the type of bullying etc, as I am very aware of what it is.
All I'm looking for is info in relation to employees rights, e.g. government info etc, outlining the rights of employees, what the correct procedure is, etc.
I have made my mind up to go to my supervisors supervisor on Monday, but would appreciate others opinions on what worked for you - and as I said good info and links on my rights, legislation, entitlements, etc, etc.

Thanks in advance


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## Kiddo (17 Feb 2006)

Sorry to hear that. there are a couple of threads on bullying which might be of some help to you.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=18838&highlight=BULLY

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=988&highlight=bullying


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## casiopea (17 Feb 2006)

Sorry to hear of your predicament.  A good friend was in a similiar position and after tolerating it for quite a while eventually got up the courage to approach a more senior member of staff (she herself was quite senior in this organisation).  Long story short similiar complaints had been made about this bully and the situation was sorted satisfactorily.  

Usually bullys bully more than one person. Go to your supervisor as soon as you can.  Ideally bring dates, times, details of bullying behaviour. Good Luck, dont let it get it to you.

cas.


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## HomersCash (17 Feb 2006)

Hey Cas and Kiddo,

    Thanks very much for the replies.
I accept the common notion that bullies bully many people.
However not so in this case. Very devious. In an open plan office of 10, all there before I joined. I have very good working relationships with all others. More importantly and to stress point about deviousness, to all others - supervisor is fine, normal date to date conversations, etc, etc..
No one is exposed to the behaviour I am received.
General trend is although sitting 2 yards away, I get an email stating urgent meeting required. Then pop into an unused office, and for 10-15 mins tries to cut me down, undermine my abilities, my confidence (knocks everything, e.g. had a meeting to argue the structure of English sentence used in an email) and then back into the office, and smiles to everyone like nothing has happened.
Some of the stuff - genuinely if it wasn't so serious and confidence destroying - if David Brent in the office said it - you wouldn't believe it.
Essentially when theres an audience nothing apparent, so to all others - everything is rosy in the garden.
Proof being, decided to ask someone else in office re working relationship with boss, and when discussing some of details, they were genuinely shocked and amazing, because it was going un-noticed, under the obvious current of day to day life in the office.

Thanks for saying don't let it get to me, but its impossible for it not to....
Only reason I can actually type this post today and feel someway normal and relaxed in myself is due to fact supervisor is out.

Hopefully I can meet boss's boss on Monday.
Never had this happen before, and never want it to happen again, so I don't know how the procedure works - or what the realistic positive outcomes may be....
Thanks for info


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## Danmo (17 Feb 2006)

I was in a similar position in current job when I just joined co I am in now. Weird stuff. Supervisor was on my back all day long over the most trivial things. She was even going through my bin – don’t ask! She would take credit for my work, open post I was sending out to check on it etc. Anyway I just gritted my teeth and then Boss#1 asks me after 6 months how I am getting on so I tell her I don’t like Supervisor’s attitude and she can’t trust me to do the simplest thing she said that was ridiculous and she would have a word. It was nearly worse when Supervisor took a day off because she would pick pick pick at everything I did while I covered for her. I have to point out – I never actually messed up once and I actually have more experience than her. Anyway the boss leaves the co and guess what ? Supervisor has turned into a human being. Completely different so it would seem that Boss#1 was behind a lot of it and " stirring it up" while being nice to my face. Weird. So weird that when Boss#1 is in touch with the office (as they are occasionally), Supervisor reverts back to old behaviour for a few days). Good luck on Monday. Try not to let it spoil your weekend. These situations are never easy to sort out.


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## bleary (17 Feb 2006)

Really important to write things down when they happen. A lot of conversations and incidents can sound harmless when you are recounting them later -Writing down straight away when you are upset means you can look at them later -strip what is just emotional response and demonstrate a reasoned case when making a complaint. One person I knew would only attend meetings with a particular person with a notebook in hand and then asked them if they agreed what they had written was what was said. 
They couldnt deny anything and seeing what they said/did in black & white shocked them.


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## cibby (17 Feb 2006)

you must write everything down with time and date. let it add up and keep it factual -then present to bosses Boss....good luck, whatever you do-This kind of constant bullying is horrible--any point in having a direct word with supervisor telling him/her how you feel about list --showing him/her the list you have compiled?


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## buzybee (17 Feb 2006)

This is a thing that some bullies do.  They are nice to everyone else, but horrible to you.  This is to make you feel like you are the problem and that there is something wrong with you.  This is emotional bullying and I hope you can maintain your confidence, and realise that s/he is the problem, not you.

I would mention the incidents to the other colleagues as they happen.  Do not tell the incidents emotionally e.g  O God, look at what s/he did to me.  You should just mention the incidents in conversation. e.g.  boss X took me into the office and complained about the grammar in my e-mail.  Do you mind if I show you the wording?'   This will let the other colleagues know what is happening in a discreet way, and they won't feel like you are going against boss X.

If boss X tears strips off you again, you should ask them if they think you are unsuitable for the job, and do they want to find someone else!!  Then they will have to back up their reasons as to why you are unsuitable for the job with facts and figures.  If you are doing your job well then they will not be able to do this.  Even if they come up with trumped up excuses, you could always show that they KNEW you only had A, B, experience when hiring you, so they should allow a learning curve/training if they expect you to do C, D now.

A lot of these bullies think that you NEED your job, NEED the money, and they do things to make you feel like you are close to being fired!!!  This feeds into their power.

If you show them you are not afraid of being fired, and that you will do your best but don't really care about keeping the job, then they will back off.


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## gearoid (18 Feb 2006)

Hi

I've worked for a similar bully in my time. It took me 18 months to confront this person. I documented as many situations as possible but couldn't find one overt enough until someone else on the team contrived a situation to get definitive evidence once I said I was going to finally raise the situation.

I went in with a 10-page type written journal of the bullying to the M.D., raised each point, and asked whether they as M.D. thought each separate behaviour or incident was acceptable. The offender was then subjected to the disciplinary process as the evidence was incontrovertible. To be honest, companies run scared when they see well documented evidence that is well presented. It raises the legal spectre.

I have noticed other colleagues having issues over the years and 1:1 meetings and performance appraisals are areas that can be used for bullying. 

Sometimes however people advocate they are being bullied when performance issues are being raised against them, so it is not all one-way traffic.

I found some previous comments re bullying by some contributors highly insensitive, particularly the "just get on with it" type of response. Bullying can ruin people's health and happiness and I found it far more difficult to deal with it at the time than the loss of a parent that occurred during that period. 

Try to find a confidant at work, keep up your self esteem, document everything and raise with the appropriate authorities.

It can be difficult unless you have corroboration. Perhaps refuse to go into 1:1 meetings with her and try to ensure other colleagues are around. I know that may not be practical in your situation.

Hope it all works out for you.


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## ClubMan (18 Feb 2006)

How long did you remain in the job after the person in question was taken to task over the bullying? What repercussions did they face?

In relation to the original request for information about statutory rights in this situation see .


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## ninsaga (18 Feb 2006)

I don't know if this is appropriate or even legal..but what if you carried a mini digital voice recorder & recorded some of the commentry.... if it is illegal then you probably could not even use it as evidence.

ninsaga


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## gearoid (18 Feb 2006)

Clubman
I don't want to go into too much further detail. I've seen similar threads mysteriously disappear from AAM as I guess the situation became identifiable! I guess I came out very positively. There were enough people who knew what the situation was that my efforts were viewed very positively by the wider company, as many others had just left instead.

I would counsel
Don't threaten the company - I had no intention to harm the company. 
What I did was to offer my resignation citing the bullying as a reason - "life's too short" etc.. 
I feel that if I had taken a legal route it would have gone highly adversarial and that wouldn't have been good for me at the time.
If you are subject to bullying then you are vulnerable, and you're probably being seen as emotional and irrational. A company may engage legal assistance that can pick on these and make more of that than is warranted...

I know the following is a non sequitur but it refers back to the main point.

I may have been in a slightly different situation to the original poster. What I was forced into was a kind of self-righteous silent rage about what was going on. It left me with the "fight or flight" adrenalin response stuck on "ON". This left me drained and ill.


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## ClubMan (18 Feb 2006)

gearoid said:
			
		

> Clubman
> I don't want to go into too much further detail. I've seen similar threads mysteriously disappear from AAM as I guess the situation became identifiable! I guess I came out very positively. There were enough people who knew what the situation was that my efforts were viewed very positively by the wider company, as many others had just left instead.


 Fair enough. I appreciate the need for circumspection here. Glad to hear it worked out well. Fair play for dealing with the situation in a committed and constructive manner. I've never been bullied but I can empathise with you on the draining effects of "always on" adrenalin caused by work related issues...


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## gearoid (18 Feb 2006)

Homerscash,

If you can try to be introspective and objective about something that is obviously a very emotive subject for you.

I'd say ask yourself some questions, which I know you are already doing!

What is it about the bully that is making them bully?

How do other people perceive the bully?

Have I been bullied in the past and if so why? 

How am I perceived by others at work?

Am I part of a group? - Bullies will not take on a group.

What stops me telling the bully they are a bully? Is it my personality that I won't confront (may be time to start now )? ... Or is it purely for financial or career reasons? 

The most regular cause of bullying is someone inadequate being in a position of power who is not up to what they are doing. In fact this is THE major reason. 

HOWEVER... 
It is often more complex than that. There is an enabling factor. No bully is confident enough, or stupid enough to take on everyone. They often have a sixth sense to pick on people who's personality makes them more susceptible OR the person is isolated by being new or stands away from the group of co-workers who would usually support them.

It may be a strategy to join a self-supporting group of co-workers at your level. You wouldn't have to say anything but it would make the bully think. If you're going out with a gang from work and the bully is not then they are vulnerable.

Also and finally. Try rate how badly you are being bullied:

Here's one of many questionnaires I found on the web:

I was subjected to verbal abuse 

 I was subjected to physical abuse 

 I was subjected to humiliation and/or ridicule 

 Some of my responsibilities were taken away without proper explanation 

 I was given unsuitable tasks or tasks which are below my level of competence 

 I was unfairly refused leave or time off 

 Information was unreasonably withheld from me 

 I was unfairly criticised 

 I was subjected to intimidating behaviour 

 I was the subject of malicious lies and/or accusations 

 I was given unrealistic/unreasonable targets and/or workload 

 I was prevented from going on training and development programmes 

 My attempts at promotion were blocked 

 My opinions and views were ignored 

 My decisions were unreasonably overruled 

 I was subjected to an unreasonable level of monitoring 

 I was excluded from meetings that I should have attended 

What form did the bullying take? I was excluded from social events


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## ClubMan (18 Feb 2006)

As in many situations (not necessarily just crisis or extreme ones either) I believe that a CBT approach to analysing the situation and clarifying the facts can help to prevent emotions (the subject's or others') from unduly influencing perceptions or reactions to the situation and can be conducive to arriving at a pragmatic and constructive approach to the problem.


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## Ruth (18 Feb 2006)

Hi Homerscash
I feel your pain... I was contemplating posting a similar thread this week...
I've been working for the same organisation for some time now - and the self appointed "boss" as she likes to call herself is basically an incompetent and totally useles manager. There are regular tantrums in our office, screaming, extremely foul language, "very important meetings" used to both intimidate me and to tell me who is going to be fired next whilst also using me as a confidante. There are also regular interrogations about the balances on some of our accounts - her latest idea has been to create false invoices to move some of this several thousand € to another  account (not ours). I'm refusing. One of my staff walked the other day over yet another incident. To make a long and miserable story short I had a meeting yesterday with one of our senior BOM for advice. I know there's going to be blood over this, but what's important is to stand up for yourself. Start keeping notes, keep a dictaphone with you if necessary, and keep your eyes open for another job.
Hope it works out for you and let us know how you get on.


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## ClubMan (18 Feb 2006)

Ruth said:
			
		

> regular tantrums in our office, screaming, extremely foul language


These are quite obviously objectionable behaviours on the part of any employee at any level and it should not take any involved procedures to deal with them. Any employer that does not do so is most likely breaching workplace legislation and employee statutory rights.


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## Past30Now (20 Feb 2006)

Ruth, Gearoid and Homerscash,

Clearly from reading this thread you are not alone, there are bullies in allsorts of organisations.  For fifteen months I had the worst job in the world, working as the Financial Controller for a small operation - I was subjected to a horrible amount of bullying from my boss - I absolutely hated the place.  Even now almost 4 years since I left I still get a knot in my stomach thinking about it.  

I did the chicken thing and left without making complaint to her boss (I think he operated on the theory of why bark when you employ your own rottweiler).  However, with life being as strange as it is, she possibly did me a favour - I've been self employed ever since.

I do feel that if I had confronted the person or reported her to her boss, I might not feel so bad about it now, and that's probably the only advice I can really give.

Past30


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## HomersCash (20 Feb 2006)

Hi all,

  Genuinely heartfelt thanks for all the responses. I initially thought when I raised the first post, that I may not get any replies.
My meeting with the bosses boss has been deferred for a few days.
I am just glad that other people can understand, and unfortunately for them actually recount similar situations themselves.
I had already begun to doubt my own abilities, my self-confidence was ebbing, and all the related physical issues that go with being over-stressed were coming into play.
The list Gearoid compiled from the web - is an excellent one, and I can answer yes to most of them, which by honestly answering those questions does put the situation into a much more black and white area.

I have all the issues well documented and will present my case well.
So - again thanks for all the responses, its good to know I'm not an isolated case, (of a well educated, qualified, competent, reasonable person, never ever bullied before being subjected to this behaviour) - and you have all given me a renewed sense of confidence in my decision to tackle this situation.

Thanks,
HomersCash 

P.S. Hopefully when all this is over, I can return to asking questions about stamp duty and shares and tax etc, etc  and normal financial stuff like that.


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## Sue Ellen (20 Feb 2006)

"My meeting with the bosses boss has been deferred for a few days"

Hope things go well for you and try to relax in the meantime and put it to the back of your mind if that is at all possible.


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## HomersCash (3 Mar 2006)

Hi all,

Lots of developments since my last post. Again - long story short.
Eventually had a meeting with HR manager. Outlined the issues and the facts, etc,etc..
A full week later HR met with my boss and bosses boss, and as I stated previously because all the bullying treatment was taking place in private, surprise, surprise, a complete, full and flat denial was the response.
Had another meeting with HR where essentially the above info was passed onto me. 
Basically, because as expected of the complete denial, (and bullying occured in private) it is going to get dirty, and complex.

Fun, fun, fun.... 

At this stage, I seriously have to consider all my options.

So, to anyone who found themselves in this position, i.e. reported/highlighted the bullying, situation is now going to get worse, etc, etc - what did you do, what was the outcome, what would you recommend?

Thanks.


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## Humpback (3 Mar 2006)

The way I see this (and coming from similar experiences), you have 3 options open to you now.

1. Stay on and put up with what's going on, for whatever reasons. Could be to maintain income, the experience (workwise) you're getting or whatever. Or just to hang on until a better job comes along elsewhere.

2. Leave now. Or just to hang on until a better job comes along elsewhere.

3. Stay on an build a case for constructive dismissal. You'll need labour law advice on how to do this because it's a difficult route to pursue.


As I'd see things anyway, you're not going to be working there much longer either way. Just a case of making the best out of the manner in which you exit the company - immediately, or later to a another job, or with some cash following constructive dismissal case.

In my mind, and what I did, a useful course of action was a combination of all 3. 

I hung around to wait for the right time to leave when another job came along, but in the meantime, pursued the complaints procedure to the max, making the company think I was going down constructive dismissal route, and in the end, they paid me off to leave via redundancy. 

Best of luck. It's a hard situation, but you're not likely to make any progress/future where you are so just develop your exit strategy in a manner which best suits your needs.


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## Purple (3 Mar 2006)

Why not carry a Dictaphone and whenever the bully starts off let them see you turn it on? You could also carry a notebook and let them know that you are keeping notes of times and dates to go with the recordings.


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## gnubbit (5 Mar 2006)

I found myself in a similar situation.  The bully (a team leader) was best friends with the manager so my complaint was handled very poorly.  The next person up to complain to was her husband!  There was nobody else to turn to in the company - no HR etc.

Having documented everything and got support from co-workers who agreed to act as witnesses should it ever go to court I decided to leave with a view to going for constructive dismissal. 

I used  as my starting point and did a bit of googling on services available in Ireland.  I found the Anti-bullying centre in Trinity (sorry, can't remember the proper name) a huge help.  I also used a solicitor on Parliament St (above Da Pino - sorry I forget the name) who was helpful.  She was all for taking them to the cleaners but they made an out of court settlement the day before our Employment Appeals Tribunal.  I preferred to take that (relatively small amount) and put it all behind me than enter into a potentially expensive, protracted, distressing court battle with no guaranteed outcome.  BTW, I insisted on getting a glowing written reference as part of the settlement.

For me leaving the company was the best move because I hadn't realised how much the daily bullying was undermining my self-confidence.  I thought I was strong enough to handle it but in retrospect I see that I probably should have left earlier rather than later as it had a very gradual effect which ended up in me doubting my own ability.   I wouldn't necessarily advise that anyone else leaves but  I wish I had quit earlier given that there was  no hope of this company sorting out the problem internally. 

The good news is that as hellish as it was at the time, I have firmly put it behind me and life is better than ever.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.  Best of luck!


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## gearoid (5 Mar 2006)

Hi Homerscash,
Sorry to hear of the turn of events.  Unfortunately this is a case of your word versus hers. 

Purple's suggestion is not the most sensible approach I've ever heard. The possibility is that overt recording could lead to disciplinary action. 

It would seem that they will now be wise the possibility of future legal action and will be protecting themselves accordingly, possibly with legal help. Also the bully will now feel empowered that they have an all-clear and 
continue in a more subtly intimidating behaviour from now on.

I would definitely get legal advice but you should now consider a change of employment for your own peace of mind at least.

Best of luck,
Gearoid


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## Pia Bang (8 Mar 2006)

Under the circumstances, would it be possible for you to request that someone else attend your 1:1 meetings as backup?  This would probably ensure that your boss would be nice, or run the risk of having a witness to the bullying.


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## Art (8 Mar 2006)

I hate to say this but as someone working in HR, the company's hands are tied unless there is any direct evidence. Unfortunately, in your case there hasn't been. You did refer though in your previous posts to email that were sent stating that she wished to meet you urgently - I presume she never expanded on this in her mail or engaged in any form of bullying behaviour via email.

I might consider approaching this problem by taking sick leave - go to the doctor and tell him that you are feeling stressed because of bullying at work. Ring HR and explain the reasons to them and also send in the medical cert (which should state stress as the reason for absence). This will definitely frighten HR and the company. It would certainly spur me into taking some form of action. However I don't know if you are paid for sick leave....

Otherwise, I would agree with the previous poster as well who says that you should now refuse to meet in private with this person. I am surprised that HR have not insisted on this. You should send them an email now requesting that they do this.

Finally, I implore you not to quit your job without having found another one. As intolerable and as difficult as the situation is now, it would be infinitely worse if you were forced into unemployment because of this bully.


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## HomersCash (14 Mar 2006)

Hi all,

  Thanks again for all the replies.
The situation has in fact proceeded to get worse - when I actually didn't think that it was possible.  
As suggested by a poster above, I have already been to the doctor.
As also suggested, I have started to look elsewhere to try and best exit the position/situation.

Essentially; boss and employers, not only denied all the issues I have highlighted, and will not entertain any compromise or mediation have now stated that I should resign - as boss will not work with me again.
Basically they want to wash their hands of this situation and forget it ever happened.
I am currently considering getting legal advice.
I have kept details of times and dates of meetings since I first highlighted the issue, and it shows that HR have been telling me one thing (i.e. compromise will be attempted), while management insisting the other.

If I actually wasn't personally in the situation I don't think I could honestly believe it.  

I may PM a number of the posters who gave advice above (gnubbit & co) - I hope thats ok - or perhaps you could pm me.

I really am in a tight spot and need to move on....
Again advice and personal experience welcome.


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## Diziet (15 Mar 2006)

HomersCash said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Essentially; boss and employers, not only denied all the issues I have highlighted, and will not entertain any compromise or mediation have now stated that I should resign - as boss will not work with me again.
> ...


 
I am sure you have been told this, but keep a record of everything, emails, notes, handwritten notes, etc, in a place away from your workplace. Emails have a habit of dissappearing, so take backups and keep them away from your workplace.

Did they put the request to resign in writing. Were there witnesses?

I suggest you get legal advice immediately and get your solicitor to write to them as soon as possible. You need to protect yourself and your mental health while you are looking for another job. At the very least, you should be paid handsomely in return for your resignation, which would effectively remove the problem from their hands. But don't let this drag on - legislation  in this area is vague and it's better to stamp on it, agree a compromise that does not leave you in financial doo doo and move on.

take care,
Diziet


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## ribena (15 Mar 2006)

You should really contact your Solicitor.  It really sounds like a case of whereby you are being left with no option but to leave.


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