# Received a claim for Ground Rent



## IWONDER (28 Jun 2007)

Hi,
I need a some advice please. I bought my house, which is in an estate, in 2004. I thought or rather presumed thinking back on it that I had bought the freehold, but at the time I suppose I didn't really know much about it. 
I received a letter last week from the executor of the estate of the original builder of the property requesting payment of outstanding ground rent for the last 12 years, which amounts to approx €250. *He also states that if I have actually purchased the freehold, to just let him know the date and amount paid. *
Upon checking my title documents it does indeed state that the document is a 'Register of Ownership of Leasehold Interest', and details of the ground rent are mentioned which concur with the letter received. *So presumably this means I definitely only have leasehold? *
I rang my solicitor, who advised me to ignore/ not take any action and to just send her a copy of the letter.
*I don't really want to just ignore this (and I will be seeing my solicitor later next week), but just wondered if anyone had encountered something similar?*
I have had a look at the Land Registry website but am still no clearer about anything.
Incidentally the executor also states in the letter that if I wish to purchase the freehold then I can do so for €440 which includes the outstanding arrears of €250.

Anyone thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.


----------



## tiger (28 Jun 2007)

He's chancing his arm.  You can purchase the ground rent for €105 + 6 years ground rent, see land registry.  The most ground back rent he can claim is 6 years.  Also, are you sure he's the actual lease holder?  I had the Jesuits chancing their arm with me!


----------



## IWONDER (28 Jun 2007)

You're not the first to suggest he's chancing his arm!  I don't know for sure if he is the leaseholder, the only obvious connection is that his surname is the same as the builder but that could be coincidence. I will check out the LR site again - properly! Thanks


----------



## csirl (28 Jun 2007)

> You're not the first to suggest he's chancing his arm! I don't know for sure if he is the leaseholder, the only obvious connection is that his surname is the same as the builder but that could be coincidence. I will check out the LR site again - properly! Thanks


 
Write the cheque to the name of the entity on listed as the landlord on your leasehold documentation (and keep a photocopy of it). This entity is the legal owner until such time as another owner is registered. I assume that if the owner is indeed dead, the executor can probably still lodge the cheque in his estates bank account.


----------



## Madangan (28 Jun 2007)

The maximum you can be charged is 6 years rent. If you decide to buy out the freehold then you would have to pay the 6 years arrears,and a multiple of the rent as the purchase price.The land registry ground rents section  will tell you what the multiple is. Your solicitor will complete all the necessary forms for you if you decide to go down that route but generally speaking if you have over 70 years left to run on the lease you have a good and marketable title so no need to buy. There may be occasionally good reason to buy the ground rent(eg if you are building a second house at the side or rear there may be a condition in the lease preventing this anand then buying out the ground rent is recommended or less than 70 years left to run)but generally speaking no need . 
Ignore the threat,it is uneconomical for people to sue for arrears.If they do they will be awarded a sum for legal costs that will not cover their costs.Usually it is an empty threat designed to get a few bob by scare tactics.


----------



## Sunny (28 Jun 2007)

Just do what your solicitor advises. It sounds like she has seen it before and will be able to deal with it when you meet her


----------



## csirl (29 Jun 2007)

Personally I wouldnt feel comfortable with leasehold. Many of these leases are old with atypical terms and conditions. I would also think twice about not abiding by the lease - may have consequences down the road - what exactly does the lease say in the event of rent not being paid? What if some opportunist buys the leasehold with a view to exploiting some of its terms to either get rights associated with the land and/or extract money from leasees for various reasons that may be buried in the small print (which is a possibility given that the owner is dead - leases could end up being sold on open market). I also think it will affect the re-sale value of your property as many buyers wont touch a leasehold house and will insist that you buy the freehold before any sale is completed.

If it were me, I'd instruct my solicitor to get the Land Registry forms and buy freehold. €440 for the security of freehold? Its a no brainer - pay the money.


----------



## Madangan (29 Jun 2007)

csirl said:


> Personally I wouldnt feel comfortable with leasehold. Many of these leases are old with atypical terms and conditions. I would also think twice about not abiding by the lease - may have consequences down the road - what exactly does the lease say in the event of rent not being paid? What if some opportunist buys the leasehold with a view to exploiting some of its terms to either get rights associated with the land and/or extract money from leasees for various reasons that may be buried in the small print (which is a possibility given that the owner is dead - leases could end up being sold on open market). I also think it will affect the re-sale value of your property as many buyers wont touch a leasehold house and will insist that you buy the freehold before any sale is completed.


The above is incorrect. A long lease is considered to be as good as a freehold. No solicitor would advise a client not to proceed with a purchase simply because it is a leasehold not a freehold. It is a perfectly good title 

Only if you are approaching less than 70 years left on the term of the lease would there be a problem with title.

The only type of covenant in the lease that could cause trouble is if you have room to build a second house there may be a prohibition and if that is the case as you almost certainly have a statutory right to buy out the freehold do it then but until then relax in the knowledge that you have a perfectly good title. Your solicitor will confirm all that to you


----------



## Mpsox (29 Jun 2007)

We purchased a house 2 years ago which was a leasehold property. We had some hassle at the time as the owner had built a structure on the side of the house and technically hadn't gone to the leaseholder for permission to do so. It delayed the sale for a couple of weeks whilst the solicitors sorted it out.
In theory, it means that if you want to make any fundmental changes to the property you need the landlords permission to do so. Therfore it is always best to buy the leasehold out, especially as in many cases the leaseholding company may have gone out of business
However you don't need a solicitor, we found the Land Reg very useful and the whole process was complete in around 9 months. You'll be paying your solicitor to act as postman


----------



## csirl (29 Jun 2007)

> A long lease is considered to be as good as a freehold.


 
I disagree. Nothing is as good as freehold. Irish Law is very biased towards land owners. The owner of the land will always have rights.


----------



## IWONDER (29 Jun 2007)

Thanks for all the input guys. I know I should probably know this - but how do I find out how many years are left on the lease? Would this be mentioned somewhere in my documentation?  The Land Registry document states that it the term is 999 years from 1971 - is this possible?


----------



## Madangan (29 Jun 2007)

IWONDER said:


> Thanks for all the input guys. I know I should probably know this - but how do I find out how many years are left on the lease? Would this be mentioned somewhere in my documentation? The Land Registry document states that it the term is 999 years from 1971 - is this possible?


 

This is absolutely possible and very common and why , for the most part,a long leasehold is considered as good as a freehold.You have more than 960 years left to run on your lease. Even if it only going to cost €500 to buy out the freehold why bother when you dont need it? Have a  nice long weekend  somewhere instead


----------



## IWONDER (29 Jun 2007)

Madangan said:


> This is absolutely possible and very common and why , for the most part,a long leasehold is considered as good as a freehold.You have more than 960 years left to run on your lease. Even if it only going to cost €500 to buy out the freehold why bother when you dont need it? Have a nice long weekend somewhere instead


 

Ok I feel a lot happier about this now. I will be having a chat with the solicitor so she can fully clarify my own situation.

Thanks peeps - you are all most helpful on this board  .


----------



## Carolam (6 Nov 2014)

Hi i have received a letter in the post asking for ground rent arrears owing on my house since 2004. I was sure tthat my property was a freehold and that when i purchased the house this was bought as such. The amount is nominal but it says that you cannot carry out any building works on the property as it is not freehold. This is a bit of a shock and I wonder about the legal implications about such a request, especially after such a long time period. any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------

