# Go safe camera van - Do you flash other road users as a warning?



## Alicec (29 Sep 2011)

Why do so so few drivers give a warning to oncomeing vehicles when they pass a hidden camera van??
I always flash my lights to oncoming drivers after i pass one
Sorry to be sexist but i have yet to see a female driver give me a warning flash


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## DB74 (29 Sep 2011)

I'm always glad to get a warning of upcoming checkpoints etc, especially when I've had a few too many after work


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## Mpsox (29 Sep 2011)

I laway thought it was illegal to give such warnings and if the Gardai saw it, they could prosecute you.

Also, there are some muppets on the roads that really need to be caught, fined and hopefully put off the road, given the speed and manner in which they drive


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## Alicec (29 Sep 2011)

Mpsox said:


> I laway thought it was illegal to give such warnings and if the Gardai saw it, they could prosecute you.
> 
> Also, there are some muppets on the roads that really need to be caught, fined and hopefully put off the road, given the speed and manner in which they drive


 
What are the chances of a Garda spotting someone giving a warning???
Why are thes van always "hidden"?


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## Guns N Roses (29 Sep 2011)

Alicec said:


> Why are thes van always "hidden"?


 
In fairness the vans are not hidden. They are placed in predetermined zones which are highlighted with "speed camera" warning signs. These zones are also displayed on the Garda website. Also all the vans I have ever seen are very visible with "camera symbols" on the sides.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=6497


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## DB74 (29 Sep 2011)

Alicec said:


> Why are thes van always "hidden"?



Actually they are obliged by law to have a sign up warning that there is a possible speed camera up ahead

You must have been absolutely flying if you missed it


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## fraggle (29 Sep 2011)

The Gardai have been known to set themselves up down the road looking for "flashers".


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## monagt (29 Sep 2011)

> The Gardai have been known to set themselves up down the road looking for "flashers".



Can we keep this on Topic please, concentrate on motoring!


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## mugga (29 Sep 2011)

I always flash


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## Slim (29 Sep 2011)

In my area these vans are usually positioned near bends in poor roads and any chance of exceeding the speed limit is usually stymied by slower drivers and tractors. No point flashing but I do and appreciate when others do also.


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## nai (29 Sep 2011)

to the OP - maybe people are starting to realise that those who are breaking the law actually deserve to be caught .....

I heard of a case just recently where a do-gooder flashed a guy in a stolen car with the boot full of stolen property who u-turned and took off - guards spotted the u-turn and gave chase and were able to eventually arrest the fella, recover the stolen car and all the stolen property.


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## z107 (29 Sep 2011)

Mpsox said:


> I laway thought it was illegal to give such warnings and if the Gardai saw it, they could prosecute you.



Why would this be illegal? The intention of flashing someone is to get them to slow down, isn't? So by doing this, you are preventing an offence.

I would have thought such an action should be commended.


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## blueband (29 Sep 2011)

i find it hard to know why someone wouldn't flash a warning! not only for camera vans or checkpoints  , but also for things like livestock on the road ect. fore warned is fore armed.


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## tinkerbell (29 Sep 2011)

I would flash to warn of an accident, animals on the road, etc. but not to warn oncoming traffic of a speed camera?     If oncoming traffic is not speeding, why would they need to be warned of the camera!


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## ontour (29 Sep 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Why would this be illegal? The intention of flashing someone is to get them to slow down, isn't? So by doing this, you are preventing an offence.
> I would have thought such an action should be commended.



You are not changing an offender's behaviour of speeding, you are interfering in the system that would change their behaviour through fines or points. 

What is the difference between flashing your lights to warn of a speed trap and being a lookout for someone robbing a shop?

You could of course flash your lights at everyone who is speeding to make them think that there is a speed trap ahead..........


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## mark1 (29 Sep 2011)

On a serious note as a driver who covers over 100k a year and having witnessed the carnage that is caused when a speeding vehicle crashes or hits a child no i dont flash people never will and make no apologies for it


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## roker (29 Sep 2011)

We all know it's a money game now, and they are catching people for a small amount over, and coming through 60 or 50 km signs, why should we not play their game?


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## DB74 (29 Sep 2011)

If I know that there is a speed camera just ahead and someone is up my backside (cos I'm not going fast enough for them) then I like to slow right down and let them overtake me


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## GoldWings (29 Sep 2011)

You should never flash to alert drivers of checkpoints. 
Some Garda checkpoints are set up under the guise of checking tax and insurance - they DO check this alright - but there is often another motive and that is to catch a suspect/stolen car. 
I know this for a fact. 
So if you flash to alert others about the checkpoint, you may alert a criminal.

If you're driving safely, within the limit and your car and yourself are in good steed, then you've nothing to hide.  

If you still persist in flashing, mind you don't flash an unmarked Garda car.


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## blueband (29 Sep 2011)

howmuchunder said:


> You should never flash to alert drivers of checkpoints.
> Some Garda checkpoints are set up under the guise of checking tax and insurance - they DO check this alright - but there is often another motive and that is to catch a suspect/stolen car.
> I know this for a fact.
> So if you flash to alert others about the checkpoint, you may alert a criminal.
> ...


 if a suspect was in a stolen car, do you really think they are going to stop at a garda checkpoint!


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## mcwhirter (29 Sep 2011)

Yes, they are out to gain tax revenue, nothing about safety.


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## Leo (30 Sep 2011)

roker said:


> We all know it's a money game now, and they are catching people for a small amount over, and coming through 60 or 50 km signs, why should we not play their game?


 
But they also have a quota to hit. So the more people you warn, the more time they will spend manning checkpoints and the higher your own chances of being caught (albeit only marginally higher).


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## RonanC (30 Sep 2011)

Leo said:


> But they also have a quota to hit. So the more people you warn, the more time they will spend manning checkpoints and the higher your own chances of being caught (albeit only marginally higher).


 
Leo, there is no quota. They get paid per hour, and not per offence.

Back to the OP's point. Why would you flash at someone, warning them on a Go-Safe van up ahead, or a Garda speed check, or checkpoint? The whole point of the Go-Safe campaign is to make people *slow down. *What business is it of yours to be warning someone who is committing an offence that there is a camera ahead? Let them get caught, let them get the fine and the points, and then maybe they will learn their lesson and slow down !

Typical Irish attitude, ah they are out to get us... Slow down, think of what you could be doing, you are in control of a lethal weapon, so act responsibly.


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## Mpsox (30 Sep 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Why would this be illegal? The intention of flashing someone is to get them to slow down, isn't? So by doing this, you are preventing an offence.
> 
> I would have thought such an action should be commended.


 
It's been deemed in the UK to be obstructing the police and people have been fined over it


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## One (30 Sep 2011)

If people are speeding, they are putting lives at risk. Why on earth wouldn't you want such people caught? We all hear about deaths on Irish roads, about how nobody does anything about it, and then when something like this is done, people here seem to be suggesting that they don't want the speeders caught, and that it is a money racket! There aren't enough speed vans on the roads as far as I am concerned.


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## T McGibney (30 Sep 2011)

There is a general belief out there that many of the speed limits that are in place are ridiculous, either too strict (eg 80km/hr on the bypassed former national primary roads such as the N4 Kinnegad-Enfield road and the Navan-Dunshaughlin-Dublin road, which contains some 60km/hr stretches) or too lenient (100 km/hr on the bendy road from Killarney up through the National Park towards Kenmare).

In addition there is a suspicion that at least some of the speed camera locations have been selected on very dubious grounds, and that the 'these are the places where people have died' mantra is selective and economical with the truth. 

These anomalies have bred an unfortunate scepticism amongst the public towards the speed cameras, and speed limit observance in general. Practically every time I meet a speed camera, another driver flashes beforehand to warn me.


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## SparkRite (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> There is a general belief out there that many of the speed limits that are in place are ridiculous, either too strict (eg 80km/hr on former primary roadsd such as the N4 Kinnegad-Enfield road and the Navan-Dunshaughlin-Dublin road, which contains some 60km/hr stretches) or too lenient (100 km/hr on the bendy road from Killarney up through the National Park towards Kenmare).
> 
> In addition there is a suspicion that at least some of the speed camera locations have been selected on very dubious grounds, and that the 'these are the places where people have died' mantra is selective and economical with the truth.
> 
> These anomalies have bred an unfortunate scepticism amongst the public towards the speed cameras, and speed limit observance in general.



Couldn't agree more!

Just back from Kerry and have driven on roads, some no wider than 3-4 metres, some with grass growing up the middle and with a limit of *100Kph*!!!

Did I see any "Go safe" vans or Gardai speed traps on these roads, not one, but as soon as  I come off the M50 onto the Tallaght bypass there is a speed trap on a *duel carriageway* where the limit is 60Kph. 
No wonder people are sceptical towards the placement of some checkpoints, "fish in a barrel" springs to mind.


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> There is a general belief out there that many of the speed limits that are in place are ridiculous, either too strict (eg 80km/hr on the bypassed former national primary roads such as the N4 Kinnegad-Enfield road and the Navan-Dunshaughlin-Dublin road, which contains some 60km/hr stretches) or too lenient (100 km/hr on the bendy road from Killarney up through the National Park towards Kenmare).


 
Most speed limits (except those in towns & cities) are determined by the class of road. 120 km/hr on Motorways, 100 km/hr on National Primary & National Secondary roads and 80 km/hr on Regional & Local Roads. This explains the 80 km/hr speed limits on former National Roads (such as the old N4) which have been downgraded to Regional & Local roads.


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## T McGibney (30 Sep 2011)

Guns N Roses said:


> Most speed limits (except those in towns & cities) are determined by the class of road. 120 km/hr on Motorways, 100 km/hr on National Primary & National Secondary roads and 80 km/hr on Regional & Local Roads. This explains the 80 km/hr speed limits on former National Roads (such as the old N4) which have been downgraded to Regional & Local roads.



This is the official line, but it doesn't alter the fact that the practical effect in many cases is a nonsense.


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## Optimistic (30 Sep 2011)

on another note. I was driving today and was on the phone, something I almost never do now, (before I did). Just wondering do the speed vans prosecute for mobile phone usage or only speed? Hoping not :-(


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> In addition there is a suspicion that at least some of the speed camera locations have been selected on very dubious grounds, and that the 'these are the places where people have died' mantra is selective and economical with the truth.


 
All accident reports attended by the Gardai are recorded by Road Authorites on a computer system which maps their exact location. Hence it is very easy to determined where the greatest number of accidents occur. Just because an individual doesn't see any accidents at a particular location doesn't mean that they are not happening.


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> This is the official line, but it doesn't alter the fact that the practical effect in many cases is a nonsense.


 
Well in some cases I would agree. 

Regional roads such as the old N4 and bog roads with grass growing up the middle of them all have the same speed limit which obviously doesn't make sense. 

The reality is there are too many regional and local roads to individually assess the correct speed limit that should be applied to them. Also the costs of providing individual speed limit signs for every local road in the country makes it unfeasible.


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## T McGibney (30 Sep 2011)

Guns N Roses said:


> All accident reports attended by the Gardai are recorded by Road Authorites on a computer system which maps their exact location. Hence it is very easy to determined where the greatest number of accidents occur. Just because an individual doesn't see any accidents at a particular location doesn't mean that they are not happening.



But again, the statistics can lie. I know of one particular location on a national primary road where a straight stretch of modernised, safe road funnels into a narrow stretch of dangerous road that has barely been updated or improved for decades. Both the dangerous and the safer stretches of this road lie within the same townland. The townland has a high accident record, but practically all these relate to the dangerous stretch.  

Both the safe stretch and the dangerous stretch have a 100 km/hr limit. 

A speed camera van is regularly present on the safe stretch, but is never, ever on the dangerous stretch, for to do so would add to the hazard in the latter area.  Drivers are presumably being penalised for exceeding 100 km/hr on the safe stretch but are immune from speed camera detection if they drive at 90 km/hr on the dangerous stretch, even if 90 km/hr is far too fast for that area of road.


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## Mpsox (30 Sep 2011)

Some of the limits are crazy. The main road out from my town had a limit of 100kmh. Once a new motorway bypass opened, the road was down-graded to 80kmh. It's not any more dangerous since the new bypass opened, if anything, with less traffic on it, it's safer. It's a main road with a good hard shoulder and now has the same speed-limit as another road with grass up the middle. Sheer lack of logic.


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## T McGibney (30 Sep 2011)

Guns N Roses said:


> The reality is there are too many regional and local roads to individually assess the correct speed limit that should be applied to them.



I find this hard to believe. Any experienced road engineer should be well able to assess at least a few roads within a morning. He'd have a county well covered within a few weeks.



Guns N Roses said:


> Also the costs of providing individual speed limit signs for every  local road in the country makes it unfeasible.



Why so? The boreens and the bypassed national roads are all littered with 80 km/hr signs. Is is really impossible to move some of these to other locations?


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## horusd (30 Sep 2011)

I never flash warnings. I hope the Gardai nail the sods.  If i was a traffic cop we wouldn't have a debt problem. I could work out all my anger issues on the nutjobs who think they were born with a right to a full licence.


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> But again, the statistics can lie. I know of one particular location on a national primary road where a straight stretch of modernised, safe road funnels into a narrow stretch of dangerous road that has barely been updated or improved for decades. Both the dangerous and the safer stretches of this road lie within the same townland. The townland has a high accident record, but practically all these relate to the dangerous stretch.
> 
> Both the safe stretch and the dangerous stretch have a 100 km/hr limit.
> 
> A speed camera van is regularly present on the safe stretch, but is never, ever on the dangerous stretch, for to do so would add to the hazard in the latter area. Drivers are presumably being penalised for exceeding 100 km/hr on the safe stretch but are immune from speed camera detection if they drive at 90 km/hr on the dangerous stretch, even if 90 km/hr is far too fast for that area of road.


 
Accident records are not located by townlands but by GPS co-ordinates which are more accurate and remove the problem you suggested. 

As for the positioning of the van it means sense to have it before the motorists reach the accident spot and not right on top of it. It has been my experience that the kind of location you describe is a magnet for accidents as motorists tend to speed up so they can overtake slow drivers before entering the narrow section.


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> I find this hard to believe. Any experienced road engineer should be well able to assess at least a few roads within a morning. He'd have a county well covered within a few weeks


 
It's not just a matter of an engineer looking at a road and deciding an appropiate speed limit. In order to make it legel, it has to be adopted into each Local Authorities By-Laws. This means preparing detailed maps, advertising in the press, consultation with the public, consultation & approval by County Councillors, preparing tender documents for new signs & poles, awarding of contracts and supervision of the work. 

This takes a hell of a lot longer than a few weeks!


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## Guns N Roses (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Why so? The boreens and the bypassed national roads are all littered with 80 km/hr signs. Is is really impossible to move some of these to other locations?


 
In most cases 80 km/hr signs are positioned where motorists leave the National road network which means only 2-3 signs will be required to cover a number of local roads. If each road has a different speed limit then each road will need a minimum of 2 signs each. With the costs of steel & aluminium going through the roof this is obviously not feasible.


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## Leo (30 Sep 2011)

RonanC said:


> Leo, there is no quota. They get paid per hour, and not per offence.


 
As you say, they do not get paid per hour, not per offence, but the contract has a minimum performance clause that states the number of fixed penalty notices they must issue.


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## RonanC (30 Sep 2011)

Leo said:


> but the contract has a minimum performance clause that states the number of fixed penalty notices they must issue.


 
Where does it say this? Have you seen the contract? 

From the Garda website


*



How many detections do you anticipate GoSafe to make during the first month / year of operation? 

We’re hoping for none. The objective is to reduce speed and save lives. 

Click to expand...

*


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## shnaek (30 Sep 2011)

If the objective of speed cameras is to get people to slow down, and the flashing of lights causes cars to slow down, then - objective achieved!


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## RonanC (30 Sep 2011)

shnaek said:


> If the objective of speed cameras is to get people to slow down, and the flashing of lights causes cars to slow down, then - objective achieved!


 
No, not really. They will slow down until they pass the van, and then speed up again.

Now the same can be said for everyone who spots the vans in the distance, they can slow down and then speed up again, but the object is to catch people speeding, not helping them avoid detection and prosecution.


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## csirl (30 Sep 2011)

mark1 said:


> On a serious note as a driver who covers over 100k a year and having witnessed the carnage that is caused when a speeding vehicle crashes or hits a child no i dont flash people never will and make no apologies for it


 
+1

Never flash - its against the rules of the road to do so. I want dangerous drivers to be caught not warned.


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## RonanC (30 Sep 2011)

csirl said:


> +1
> 
> Never flash - its against the rules of the road to do so. I want dangerous drivers to be caught not warned.


 
Flashing your lights isn't against the rules of the road, in fact it is promoted and advised by most driving instructors to be used in certain circumstances. 

However, I'd imagine the Gardaí would have an issue with you if you did flash your lights warning other drivers of their presence and could maybe charge you with obstructing them in their duties.

UK example


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## roker (30 Sep 2011)

T McGibney said:


> I find this hard to believe. Any experienced road engineer should be well able to assess at least a few roads within a morning. He'd have a county well covered within a few weeks.


 
Is this the same engineers who put overtaking markings on bends and such short lengths that you need a ferrari to accelerate fast enough, and put Stop signs where there should be Yield signs?


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## ajapale (30 Sep 2011)

Topic reminder: Go safe camera van - Do you flash other road users as a warning?

If posters want to discuss how long it would take a roads engineer to assess all the roads in her area or the competence or other wise of those engineers when designing/installing road markings then feel free to start a new thead about that topic.


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## Vanilla (30 Sep 2011)

My dad was caught by the gardai flashing a warning to an oncoming car about a check point ( he got caught by the traffic squad) years ago and was summonsed for dangerous driving. Think he pleaded to driving without due care and attention or careless driving. Twas a fair cop( hur hur).


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## RMCF (2 Oct 2011)

Anyone know if these vans can read your number plate in the dark?

I have yet to see them out during dark hours, but with the dark mornings/evenings now coming in, I was just wondering.


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## RonanC (2 Oct 2011)

RMCF said:


> Anyone know if these vans can read your number plate in the dark?
> 
> I have yet to see them out during dark hours, but with the dark mornings/evenings now coming in, I was just wondering.



They can operate 24hours a day


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## liaconn (2 Oct 2011)

If your child have been killed or seriously injured by a speeding driver how would you feel if you knew Garda attempts to catch such drivers were being impeded by people helping them out by giving them warnings?


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## RMCF (2 Oct 2011)

I have received plenty of flashes to warn me, even though I am not a fast driver.

I have not yet flashed a single person to warn them.

I think it all stems from the anti-Police/anti-establishment gene the vast majority of us have. 
But I have seen far too many bad car accidents up here in the NW to warn idiotic drivers that they might be about to get points on their licence.


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## Mpsox (3 Oct 2011)

Anyone know what the range of the vans are, how close to them do you need to be before they get a reading

Actually one thing that does annoy me about is that when a lot of drivers see a van(or a garda speedcheck), especially on the motorway, they slow right down until they are way below the speed limit. That's dangerous. Car in front of me this morning slowed to around 70kph on the motorway, I had to slow down as well and the guy behind me nearly went into the back of me


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## T McGibney (3 Oct 2011)

Guns N Roses said:


> As for the positioning of the van it means sense to have it before the motorists reach the accident spot and not right on top of it. It has been my experience that the kind of location you describe is a magnet for accidents as motorists tend to speed up so they can overtake slow drivers before entering the narrow section.



But this isn't the case in the area I am talking about. The speed camera van is habitually situated in a certain spot where drivers start to speed up and overtake after exiting the blackspot area. I think this is ludicrous. If road safety was the prime motivation, they would situate the camera van on the other side of the road, nearer the blackspot, so as to capture speeding drivers as they approach the blackspot.


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## Ciaraella (4 Oct 2011)

I wouldn't flash, if you're speeding then imo you should be done for it!


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## AlastairSC (5 Oct 2011)

I flash to alert other drivers to hazards, obstruction around bend they're about to come to, pedestrians on rural roads etc. I consider this to be courteous and maybe it might save a life. 

I don't flash to warn of speed checks or Gardai checks as I think this makes me complicit in other drivers' illegality. It's a hangover from the old anti-authority days - they are acting on our behalf to improve road behaviour/catch criminals. We should support positive sensible initiatives when our state implements them. Gardai get enough stick from the public without my undermining their efforts, which is what flashing does, I think.


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## Niallman (6 Oct 2011)

I just think its so risky to flash the lights at anyone in any circumstance. How is the person being flashed supposed to guess what it means? Does it mean "I'm letting you out", "Stay back, I'm not letting you out", "slow down", "theres someone on your roof", "the woman beside you is hot"!! 
What if you were to make a maneuver based on someone flashing their lights at you and you crashed? 

Totally agree with AlastairSC and others in terms of warning other drivers about speeding. Alerting a speeding driver to a speed camera and helping them avoid it only means that an opportunity for their behaviour to be highlighted to them has been missed. I know a few drivers who have changed their driving habits significantly after getting points and a fine.


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## T McGibney (6 Oct 2011)

Niallman said:


> I just think its so risky to flash the lights at anyone in any circumstance.



One evening recently, I was driving on a narrow, tree-lined road by the entrance of Cavan Golf Club and I witnessed on the other side of the road, an adult walking with a child. I then noticed the child was walking on rollerskates. Both adult and child were wearing dark clothes so neither would have been fully visible to oncoming traffic. 

I met 5 or 6 cars in the next mile or so, all travelling the same side of the road as the unlit, rollerskated child and their companion. I flashed each of these oncoming cars to warn them of the hazard ahead. Are you saying that I shouldn't have done so?


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## ajapale (6 Oct 2011)

If you are diriving on rural (or semi rural roads) I think the "de facto" couresy is to flash oncoming motorists to alert them about hazards ahead. I flash for ice, trees/branches, silage contractors, lifestock, dogs, deer, phesants, floods, power lines sparking, vunerable pedestrians, charity collectors, refuse trucks, building site exits (heavy traffic exiting),etc. I ususllay flash the first four or five cars.

In relation to the Go-Safe vans my understanding is that the authorities want to highlight their presence (signs and bright livery on vans). I have notice a marked improvement in driving standards on stretches of road where they operate. Accordingly I flash for the presence of a Go Safe van.

I dont flash for Gardai check points or Customs check points.


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## net64 (7 Oct 2011)

One said:


> If people are speeding, they are putting lives at risk. Why on earth wouldn't you want such people caught? We all hear about deaths on Irish roads, about how nobody does anything about it, and then when something like this is done, people here seem to be suggesting that they don't want the speeders caught, and that it is a money racket! There aren't enough speed vans on the roads as far as I am concerned.



 agree!

I never flash to alert about speed vans,check points etc.If people are on the road speeding or no tax/insurance etc, they deserve to be caught.
The only times that I will alert drivers is if there are animals in the road,accident etc.

net64


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## roker (9 Oct 2011)

After getting done for doing 10 km/ph (6mph) Over, I am being extra vigilant now and find cars backing up behind me and some trying to overtake, so if any of the holy Joe's that want speeding drivers caught, do not get annoyed if you are held back by a law abiding drive, it could be me. Very few people keep strictly to the limit.


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