# Ulster Bank Mortgage Contracts



## UDurcan (18 Aug 2016)

Hi All
I have been following the various discussions here and obviously keeping an eye on the Central Bank updates on this investigation.
Can someone just clarify for me...if in your Offer of Advance..it states that the interest rate shall be ECB rate plus 1.05% for the life of the mortgage...then does this mean that irrespective of fixing the rate for 5 years and irrespective of whether the bank told you that by fixing for 5 years that the tracker would be lost...that i am legally entitled to have my tracker because of this line in my Offer of Advance.
Any comment would be appreciated.
Thanks


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## Gerard123 (18 Aug 2016)

Seriously??

Legal agreements can be superceded. If the Bank told you that by fixing "the tracker would be lost", not meaning to be flippant, what part of that was not clear? 

Assuming that the documentation supports what you are saying.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Aug 2016)

If the Fixed Rate Agreement said very clearly that you would lose your tracker, then you have lost your tracker. 

In many cases, the Fixed Rate Agreements were vague e.g."You would go onto a variable rate.". A tracker is a variable rate, so it could be argued that you didn't realise that you would lose your tracker. 

Brendan


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## UDurcan (18 Aug 2016)

Gerard123 said:


> Seriously??
> 
> Legal agreements can be superceded. If the Bank told you that by fixing "the tracker would be lost", not meaning to be flippant, what part of that was not clear?
> 
> Assuming that the documentation supports what you are saying.


 
 Yes of course i am aware of this and i accepted this when i came off my fixed rate in 2012 and was offered all rates except the tracker rate. The information that I would lose my tracker was certainly given to me verbally but unfortunately i can find all documents relating to my mortgage except any paperwork that I may have signed when signing up for the fixed rate in 2007.

However having become aware of the Central Banks order to Ulster Bank to examine its books in relation to tracker mortgages and having read the various forums and discussion..well a lot of these cases are identical to mine and I have read many references to this line "ECB rate plus 1.05% for the life of mortgage" and this seems to have been of some relevence in some of the cases where people got their tracker back.


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## UDurcan (18 Aug 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> If the Fixed Rate Agreement said very clearly that you would lose your tracker, then you have lost your tracker.
> 
> In many cases, the Fixed Rate Agreements were vague e.g."You would go onto a variable rate.". A tracker is a variable rate, so it could be argued that you didn't realise that you would lose your tracker.
> 
> Brendan


 
Thanks Brendan

The only document I do not have in relation to my mortgage is The Fixed Rate Agreement.....I am sure I could request a copy from the bank.


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## corktim (18 Aug 2016)

I think you will struggle if the fixed rate letter you signed says you lose the right to your tracker.

The wording on the fixed rate letter is key . I was told I would move to a variable rate but also given the option of taking a tracker as an option. No doubt they were trying to take my tracker off me but were too dumb to get the wording right.


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## Gordon Gekko (18 Aug 2016)

I would pay close attention to whether the term they use is "Variable Rate" or "variable rate". I would contend that the latter includes a tracker.


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## notabene (19 Aug 2016)

UDurcan said:


> Hi All
> I have been following the various discussions here and obviously keeping an eye on the Central Bank updates on this investigation.
> Can someone just clarify for me...if in your Offer of Advance..it states that the interest rate shall be ECB rate plus 1.05% for the life of the mortgage...then does this mean that irrespective of fixing the rate for 5 years and irrespective of whether the bank told you that by fixing for 5 years that the tracker would be lost...that i am legally entitled to have my tracker because of this line in my Offer of Advance.
> Any comment would be appreciated.
> Thanks



This was the wording in my Uslter Bank mortgage contract & the ombudsman said that I should have automatically defaulted to the tracker rate from the fixed rate in his adjudication inDec 2014.  Furthermore if you look at the documents in the thread 'prime time report on Ulster Bank Customer who lost her tracker' you'll see an email from them saying had I still been a customer they would have returned it as per section 2 of the contract. I haven't seen your documents but I would suspect both would apply to you also. However, mine was fixed in 2006 for 2 years and yours in 2007 so possibly the wording had changed in the fixed rate agreement by that stage


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## notabene (19 Aug 2016)

UDurcan said:


> Yes of course i am aware of this and i accepted this when i came off my fixed rate in 2012 and was offered all rates except the tracker rate. The information that I would lose my tracker was certainly given to me verbally but unfortunately i can find all documents relating to my mortgage except any paperwork that I may have signed when signing up for the fixed rate in 2007.
> 
> However having become aware of the Central Banks order to Ulster Bank to examine its books in relation to tracker mortgages and having read the various forums and discussion..well a lot of these cases are identical to mine and I have read many references to this line "ECB rate plus 1.05% for the life of mortgage" and this seems to have been of some relevence in some of the cases where people got their tracker back.



Did you do this through a broker? Would they have a copy of your fixed rate agreement? If not do a data protection request and Ulster will have to supply it to you.


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## UDurcan (24 Aug 2016)

Thank you all for the advice....I am going to await the outcome of the investigation and see if the bank make contact with me...and if not i will definitely be requesting a copy of that fixed rate agreement and take it from there.


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## UDurcan (3 Feb 2017)

Hi all...just to update on this thread...my tracker rate as per my original mortgage contract has been reinstated as of this month. Got my letter today. Thanks to everybody who has worked to raise awareness of this issue and hopefully everybody will get their letter soon.


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## Daffodils (3 Feb 2017)

I'm very surprised to see that people who were aware they were giving up their tracker rate now have that rate reinstated. How can a bank be accused of misleading a customer particularly where they explained the implications to a customer prior to the new agreement.


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## peteb (3 Feb 2017)

Daffodils said:


> I'm very surprised to see that people who were aware they were giving up their tracker rate now have that rate reinstated. How can a bank be accused of misleading a customer particularly where they explained the implications to a customer prior to the new agreement.



because in the case of Ulster Bank they didnt inform their customer that they still had an entitlement to a tracker in their contract wording.


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## mister32 (3 Feb 2017)

Daffodils you got it backwards

People fixed for period of time (never gave  up tracker)

End of which bank originally denied them rightful tracker

Finally this is being corrected


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## mister32 (3 Feb 2017)

http://www.thejournal.ie/tracker-mortgage-scandal-3200502-Jan2017/


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## Daffodils (3 Feb 2017)

Sorry but the OP said he knew he was giving up the right to revert to a tracker rate in his second post on the thread. 

It just seems strange that someone who acknowledges that they knew the implications of signing a document which amended the terms of their contract now feels vindicated in having the terms of this document set aside. I can understand the argument that the wording was ambiguous or that they didn't know the implications but where they did I don't understand how it can be argued that they were treated unfairly. 

Obviously I don't know the full story...


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## Linten (16 Feb 2017)

Congrats on getting your Tracker back. 

A lot of people would like to know if you located the MFA you signed in 2007 when you fixed the rate for 5 years. You seem quite certain that you were advised that you would lose your Tracker if you Fixed, however it depnds on what was on the legal document that you signed.

If it said that you would lose the Tracker then there is no legal contractual right for you to get your Tracker back. That would suggest that the Bank restored tracker to comply with Consumer Protection code obligations. Knowing what was stated in your MFA would clarify the position one way or the other and  lots of people would be interested in the answer. If you located the MFA would appreciate if you could post outcome.


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## Sarenco (16 Feb 2017)

Given the timeframe, I suspect the contract wording mirrored the wording in this case:-

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/thread...e-period-ombudsman-gave-it-back-to-me.183573/


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## UDurcan (18 Feb 2017)

Hi Linten

No I did not locate the form I signed when I fixed and I did not request it from the bank as I decided to wait and see if there was any outcome from the tracker examination.

The letter I received in January stated "we have now completed an initial analysis of our mortgage portfolio which has identified tracker mortgage customers who have been affected by the use of ambiguous and confusing terminology in our mortgage documentation. Through this analysis we have identified your account as impacted."

I can only assume that this is in relation to the consumer protection code obligations.

Hope this helps clarify for other people waiting to hear.


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## UDurcan (18 Feb 2017)

By the way I fixed in April 2007 just in case that is of interest


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