# Executor's out of Pocket Expenses. - No receipts.



## SoylentGreen (10 Nov 2014)

The executor of my parent's estate has submitted a claim in respect of out of pocket expenses in respect of my father's estate. Firstly can I ask What are out of pocket expenses?
He has paid for gardeners, house cleaners, window cleaners, removal men etc etc and claimed these costs back from the estate but apparently never asked for or received receipts in respect of same. Should he have receipts?


----------



## Gerry Canning (10 Nov 2014)

Probably should have receipts , but out of pocket expenses cover the odd job type things you mention.
If the bill seems fair , I suggest get it paid on the assumption these {odd} jobs were reasonable. At a death time it is unseemly to get receipts for everything and seems a bit mean, even though logic says get a receipt .


----------



## vandriver (10 Nov 2014)

I'm not sure how easy it is to get receipts from window cleaners.


----------



## mf1 (10 Nov 2014)

How much are we talking about? 

Do the figures look reasonable? 

Is it in any doubt that the expenses were incurred? 

Are you running the risk of being unreasonable yourself?

Objectively, does it make more sense to consent rather than cause a scene?

mf


----------



## emeralds (10 Nov 2014)

Was the work done that he paid for? Was the garden tidied up, windows cleaned?  House cleaned? 
Why were there removal men involved? Was the house being sold and the furniture being taken out?


----------



## SoylentGreen (11 Nov 2014)

Gerry Canning said:


> At a death time it is unseemly to get receipts for everything and seems a bit mean, even though logic says get a receipt .



€850 paid to a gardener in a lump sum suggests to me that there should have been a receipt asked for and given?


----------



## Padraigb (11 Nov 2014)

SoylentGreen said:


> €850 paid to a gardener in a lump sum suggests to me that there should have been a receipt asked for and given?


Agreed.

But, more pertinent, was the gardening work done, and was the price reasonable?


----------



## Gerry Canning (11 Nov 2014)

Soylent;

On your post I had no handle on the size of bills or were they reasonable for work done.

Eg if 850 covers tree removal or garden needed a lot of work 850 is ok.
I would think though that 850 merits a receipt.


----------



## SoylentGreen (11 Nov 2014)

Gerry Canning said:


> Soylent;
> 
> On your post I had no handle on the size of bills or were they reasonable for work done.
> 
> ...



I am not sure why some posters think that gardeners, window cleaners, house cleaners, rubbish removal men don't have to give receipts?

The solicitor gave a receipt with a breakdown, the Estate Agent gave a receipt with a breakdown. If the executor is making a claim against an estate then I think he should provide receipts for the estate?


----------



## Padraigb (11 Nov 2014)

Have you any reason to believe that the amount claimed is excessive?


----------



## STEINER (11 Nov 2014)

OP,

Your father chose this executor, so he deemed him to be trustworthy to deal with his estate after his death.

Having said that, €850 is one large bill to pay without a paper trail/receipt.  It is open to interpretation, was it legitimate and just laziness with a couldn't care less attitude or indeed fraudulent.  Receipts would offer clarity and assurance and eliminate doubt.  Black economy doesn't like paper trail.

As a family, we recently had similar type expenses (furniture removal, utilities etc) for reimbursement and we had receipts for everything, its not hard.


----------



## SoylentGreen (11 Nov 2014)

STEINER said:


> It is open to interpretation, was it legitimate and just laziness with a couldn't care less attitude or indeed fraudulent.  Receipts would offer clarity and assurance and eliminate doubt.



We believe that a claim in respect of "removals of rubbish" included the use of the removal firm and van to transport items of furniture to his own home and other members of his family. We have asked on a number of occasions to provide an itemised receipt and to clarify if this in fact did happen. He has refused to respond to questions asked.


----------



## Seagull (12 Nov 2014)

SoylentGreen said:


> We believe that a claim in respect of "removals of rubbish" included the use of the removal firm and van to transport items of furniture to his own home and other members of his family. We have asked on a number of occasions to provide an itemised receipt and to clarify if this in fact did happen. He has refused to respond to questions asked.


 
That sounds like the executor could be moving into the realms of criminal behaviour. They have no right to remove property from the house and take possession of it.


----------



## Grizzly (20 Nov 2014)

Seagull said:


> That sounds like the executor could be moving into the realms of criminal behaviour. They have no right to remove property from the house and take possession of it.


 If the executor was related to one of the beneficiaries then I could see a situation where this might happen. However if the executor charged the estate with these removal costs but insisted that the other beneficiaries had to pay their own removal costs separately then it certainly looks as if he is not being fair to all.

I would have thought that receipts would be required. It seems as if the whole area of Executors needs to be tightened up a bit to protect everyone. Just reading the problems that people are having with executors on these forums suggests that they can almost do what they like and your only redress is a costly exercise involving solicitors.


----------



## Seagull (20 Nov 2014)

You can apply to have the executor removed, but you have to have pretty good grounds to do so. I'm not sure who is entitled to put in the application.


----------



## mf1 (20 Nov 2014)

"It seems as if the whole area of Executors needs to be tightened up a bit to protect everyone. Just reading the problems that people are having with executors on these forums suggests that they can almost do what they like and your only redress is a costly exercise involving solicitors."

If you read any posts about issues like this, it is important to be very objective. You're hearing only one side of a story, its highly personal and the posters usually ignore all advices, save those that accord with their version of events. There is virtually always a history between the parties which is brought into play by any perceived slights or minor deviations from best practice. 

Any one who has ever acted as an executor will tell you that it is, at best, a thankless job and, at worst, an experience never to be repeated. 

In 30 years of practice, I have seen, at most, two situations where executors behaved badly. And it does happen - just not as often as you might expect. In every other case of alleged misconduct, you could have seen the complaints coming a mile down the road - no matter what the executor did, it was going to be wrong. Even when it was right. 

mf


----------

