# Griffner Coillte Homes - anyone any experience with them?



## colorado

Hello,

Has anyone built a Griffner Coillte home and if so what was their experience? They look great on their website ([broken link removed]) but very expensive. Are their any other companies in Ireland supplying houses like these?  My husband & I are researching building a house, ( timber frame or SIPS etc.)  and would like to do all of the internal finish work ourselves as husband works construction. Thanks in advance for any input.


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## demoivre

This crowd do something similar. I have never used them and have no connections with them - I read about them somewhere and subsequently checked out their website which impressed me . In the past I got all the info. from Griffner and also thought that they were pricey.


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## Fingalian

I came across these guys when I was researching our own extension. They do the Tek Haus system...SIPS.

www.ttfc.ie


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## bertson

I know (through experience) a lot of the timber frame companies are not undertaking extensions at the moment. They are so busy with new builds.


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## colorado

Thanks for all the info. I think we will have to stick to a regular timber frame company for supply and do most of the work due to our limited budget. Griffner Coillte seems to be aprx 110+ per sq ft for supply and erect of the frame. I know that includes the finished exterior, windows, finished roof, insulation etc. but compared to a regular timber frame company, supply and erect seems to be more like 30+ sq ft for them. Anyone know if that sounds about right? I got that figure by getting quick quotes from Century and IJM.


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## Marconi2012

The company actually built a house for an eminent Minister in the current Government Cabinet. He had problems with his planning permission as far as i recall- enough said!


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## AJL

Ye I'm getting a SIP (sturctural insulated panel) house for about 30 euros per sqft which to  me is well worth it. Better than a timber frame and super efficient.


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## quinster

Hi- we have a lot of experience with them and they are TERRIBLE.
We bought a house from them a year and a quarter ago and have suffered all types of problems and substandard workmanship.
Our snags so far have been-


1.Continuous leaky roof over a period of a year- in three places
2. Leaking windows.
3.A front door which still doesn't open- delaminated and water stained
4.Leaking internal plumbing,boiler.
5.Very poor electrics,  tripping of electrics still.
6.Essential telephone and electrical points missing
7.Structural floor supports missing and spaced to wide apart
8.No supporting beams under staircase.
9.leaking rads
10.Extractor fans not working properly
11.Sky light not connected internally in the house soit doesn't work
12.Heating system continually not working properly
13.Couldn't walk outside front door because of mudbathed land ie no drive or accessway
14. Rendering on house incomplete and poorly done
15. No drainage from sink to soak pit
16.Bad quality plastering and substandard decorating (no jointing tape used plastering and no filler decorating)
17.Unprotected wood buried in wet concrete
18.Stained  and broken roof tiles
19. No lead sleeve around chimney flue
20. Silicon preventing major leak into bedroom
21.Damaged window rubbers.
22.Blocked access conduits
23.Leaking gutters
24.Squeaking weak subfloors
25.Rusted stove
26.Doors opening wrong way
27.Doors delaminating
28.Weak bannisters
29.Locks, gates fencing missing
30.Switches and plugs hanging off wall
31. Dirty painted walls
32.No drain offs for the gutters.
33.Sewage drain pipes to shallow.
34. Plastic sewage drains in driveways not set in cement
35.Stained wood work internally and externally

Although some snags have been fixed (not to a good standard) there are a lot outstanding.
So far we estimate at least 100 phone calls, 20 emails and texts to get work completed an finished to a safe adequate standard- all either answered by lies or not answered.
They will not return our calls.

 My advice is not to buy a new one or don't let them do second fix and any finishing on the house.
Don't pay them all the money and even hold back money on completion as they will promise but not finish jobs.
Most of all do not trust Griffner Ireland


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## Toppy

Hi quinster,
My first time on one of these sites so hope I'm doing this correctly. Just had to register here so I could reply re Griffner. we also had /are having an horrendous experience with griffner. several of us in the south east have been in touch for the last couple of years re our common horror stories. so please feel free to e-mail me directly as we may be getting together to look at the way forward.


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## Lorrie

*Just to clarify; GriffnerHaus acquires full ownership of Griffner Coillte - May 2007*
*Coillte are not involved in this company any longer. *


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## parkslope

Hi,

Also having problems with Griffner Haus (formerly Griffner Coillte). Living in the North East. Waiting for snags to be completed for the past two years!

Water ran down our walls over the weekend!


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## mayobob

I'm planning to build with Griffner.  Are the problems you're experienceing with the irish built houses or the ones that are now being built in Austria?  I've seen a few of their houses now and all have seemed lovely with no obvious problems.  I'd be interested in any tips/hints for using these guys.


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## Chopper1971

Just wondering if anyone went for the GriffnerHaus Design box? Looks similar to what we are looking at.

We have friends who used Hanse Haus and they are very pleased with the finish.

The comments above sounds like a nightmare which is evening more surprising as griffner are more expensive then other timber frame companies.


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## parkslope

Austria/Ireland they are still the same people using the same “technology” and it doesn’t work!

We are dealing with the Austrian crew at present and the service is no better. I would stay well clear.

When making the decision to go with the then GC we visited many impressive builds – in construction – we visited no completed houses. I wonder why……..? No doubt the experiences and stories would have been completely different….

We paid over the odds for our house and it leaks! I would expect better from a tent.


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## mayobob

I've seen a couple of completed houses one of which was a few years old.  neither had any obvious problems...  guess i'll have to procede with caution!  Did you get the turnkey finish from them or just the basic structure?


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## wobbie

First of all let me say how bad your situation sounds, it can't be much fun with a leaky roof with the summer we've had

However i feel that some of the comments mentioned above are misleading & incorrect.



> Austria/Ireland they are still the same people using the same “technology” and it doesn’t work!


 
I have been working in the building industry for over 15 years at this stage of my life. In fact my final year project in construction economics in college was on these very "technology" mentioned above.
To flatly state that these systems don't work is simply wrong & poor advice. 
Many well known and highly respected companies inc. Griffnerhaus, Huff Haus, Beaufritz, Davinci etc. have been using this off site panel systems throughout Europe for many years. Between them they build 100's of top quality homes every year and have been doing so for many years.
They are built to very high standards due to the very srtict build codes / regulations in place over there.
Imho this off site construction method is the future of quality building. It offers many advantages over traditional build. Building in a factory allows much greater quality control than can ever be achieved on site. The problems only occur if these panels are poorly put toghether on site.
These companies normally send ther own specialist erection crews to do this work. I would suspect the problems mentioned above are due to this on site work being done poorly for whatever reason.

My advice to you "Mayobob" would be to insure that only native german speakers are allowed on site

Please let us know how your build goes


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## parkslope

It's not our roof that's leaking (we got a local tradesman to do that for us - went for scope one only). It's our walls. More specifically the rain is entering where the ground floor and first floor meet and coming in under the window sills also. (Anyone else experience this problem?)

I am not an engineer but a house that literally leaks at the seams is not good...... wood and water are not a happy couple!

I believed in the technology too. Why else would I have chose this mode of build, and paid an extortionate amount of money for it. All the impressive building codes, regulations and standards do not change the fact that our house leaks. That's certainly not the only problem with the house but at the moment it is the main one.

To be fair to Griffner then, is there anyone out there with a glowing positive experience and a house that works? Do let us know.


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## J Watson

Dear All,

My name is John Watson and I am the sales manager for GriffnerHaus in Ireland.

Following on from Lorrie's post above I can confirm that GriffnerHaus did purchase all of the share holding from Coillte in respect of Griffner Coillte last May. Since then the company has made several significant changes the net result of which is that the product, its delivery and execution have increased in both quality and energy efficiency.

We have over 100 completed projects in Ireland (over 3,000 through out Europe) and for those who are seriously examining the market with a view to building we would be happy to supply references and put you directly in touch with owners.

Mayobob (or anyone else in a similar situation), if you have concerns regarding the above posts then please contact me directly at jwatson@griffnersales.com and I will be happy to discuss any conerns or queries that you might have.

ParkSlope, I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing problems. Again, if you would like to contact me directly I will be happy to discuss the situation with you and do what I can to help.

Kind regards

John Watson
GriffnerHaus Ireland


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## bmm

parkslope said:


> To be fair to Griffner then, is there anyone out there with a glowing positive experience and a house that works? Do let us know.


 
Season 5 episode 6 of "About the house" with Duncan Stewart (the man who doubled the price of houses with all his fancy gear ) Anyway, there was a family on who seemed to be delighted with the outcome. Thats a few years back though...


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## fromero

colorado said:


> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone built a Griffner Coillte home and if so what was their experience? They look great on their website ([broken link removed]) but very expensive. Are their any other companies in Ireland supplying houses like these? My husband & I are researching building a house, ( timber frame or SIPS etc.) and would like to do all of the internal finish work ourselves as husband works construction. Thanks in advance for any input.


 
Try www.marles-hise.si It's a similar system from Slovenia


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## fromero

mayobob said:


> I'm planning to build with Griffner. Are the problems you're experienceing with the irish built houses or the ones that are now being built in Austria? I've seen a few of their houses now and all have seemed lovely with no obvious problems. I'd be interested in any tips/hints for using these guys.


 
Try www.marles-hise.si It's a similar system from Slovenia


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## parkslope

I saw that episode of "About the House" -very impressive indeed. I only wish we came from a well know family and had the camera crew present during construction. The outcome might have been different....


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## Leo

fromero said:


> Try www.marles-hise.si It's a similar system from Slovenia


 
Hi Fromero, welcome to AAM. In accordance with the posting guidelines, could you confirm whether you have any association with the above company?
Leo


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## edselfbuild2

We have had the full turnkey house from Griffner, it was then Griffner Coillte but same product, more or less. We felt the idea to get a turnkey would leave us with little management and hassle and also get a good quality house in terms of structure and finish. I estimate it cost close to €100k more with GC than a traditional build but the finish is a lot better as is the quality. HOWEVER I would not do it again. I had to be on site every day, mistakes made on a continuous basis. The build took 1 year not 10-12 weeks quoted. the house was a dormer, 170 square metres. The snags are not addressed, seems like similar picture with all the people I know that have used Griffner. The more serious issues is we still do ot have the premier bond cert. we have leaking shower due to poor (very very poor quality tiling) that has not been addressed, so we have had no shower in main bathroom for 9 months now. tiles fall off, damaged our car, Griffner took responsibility which was good buit then failed to pay (€2k damage to a brand new car). Note the crew had been to anohter house same day (no wind on any of the days) with same issues. ridge tiles just not nailed. the wall and the roof do not meeproperly so we have holes/gaps there. birds now using these for nesting. the list goes on and on. Main advise is:
1. you need a project manager even with a full turnkey
2. make sure to have a full snag list done, using acredited architect
3. use your solicitor to make sure all is well documented
4. do not move into the house before you are 100% complete with it- this is hard but worth it
5. when you do move in document everything, let nobody in without writing their name and issue down. (we have had issues with leaks been denied after they were inspected and confimred, door locks not working and then denied etc etc.
6. do not buy from any company unless you have witnessed at least as many positive owners/buyers than negative. i have found no positive Griffner owners yet.
7. do not fall for the finish, many look great, the process to get their can be a nighmare.
We also built  a house in Sweden, took half the time and no hassle, it is possible.


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## lazylump

Reading this post I am so relieved I have chased this company over a number of years wanting them to build a house for me and I just could not get past first base with them.
On 3 different occasions I made contact with Griffner looking to advance a project and they never came back to me. I first met them at Plan Expo and went through their designs and was impressed, they were to call me back a few days later but never did. A year later again I met them at Plan Expo this time I owned the site and had the hard cash to build but had not yet submitted planning and wanted a Classic designed home but bigger. Again they never made contact or call me back which at the time they promised.
The last time I spoke to them I traveled specifically to a self build show to see them I think it was Galway (but it could have been Millstreet) I gave them my information told them what I wanted and they were to call me within a few days. Again they never came back to me and I phoned the office a few times but to no avail. 
Eventually I took this lack of response and interest as the way they treat their clients and imagined if I had problems with the house how I would be treated. 
I think Griffner is all just show with nice glossy catalogues, a big marketing budget and a few well known architects on board but lacking substance and care for their clients.


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## WesC

If only I had read some of these comments before ordering....
We are now thirteen months into our "turnkey" "estimated finish within four months" build. 
We found the Austrian team to be excellent, swarming like a bunch of pirates or acrobats over our build. Then they left. And reality set in. Or inertia.
The house delivered was not to plan. Exterior finish was incorrect on one third of building.Windows were not to plan ( and took 11 month to correct, still not to spec. ordered).  We have front double doors which only can be opened from inside. Windows mysteriously moved between plans and delivery. Some sub-contractors were excellent, some seem to have been chosed with a blindfold and a stick with a pin from the Golden pages.
Griffner failed to finish the interior, preferring to have us do so as we were not happy with their skirtings, doors, etc. This was not what we had been led to expect during the honeymoon sales period. There are presently (13 months since building arrived and counting) further snagging problems- a severe leak though a ceiling being the latest issue, so house still is unoccupied.
The build quality of wall is superb.The house is easily heated.  Creaking floors, springing floor tiles, wrong specifiation delivery, being able to enter the building from the outside of a front door tends to take the edge off something which was promised as turnkey albeit at a premium price.
I'll be happy to talk to or show anyone who wishes the details of all this.


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## anncollins

yeahh - marketing is everything!! Look here: 

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/new_homes/article5008180.ece

Griffner is a cheap choice in Germany - nothing against Austrian houses - but:

WHAT????!!! Mercedes?


 Griffner uses similar factory technology to the German Huf Haus, but Prosser says the Austrians come out on top in the flexibility of their offer. While many homebuilders maintain a rigid control over what is erected in their name, Griffner creates bespoke solutions — and so if you want an extra bedroom, storage or office, that can be factored in. 
 Prosser explains that the sector’s business model is analogous to the luxury car market. “If Huf Haus are the Rolls-Royce, then Griffner are the Mercedes-Benz. Both co-exist together happily and appeal to markedly different tastes,” he says.....


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## Seabiscuit2

WesC - I would be very interested to get the details of your experience if you are happy to talk. would really appreciate it.


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## happycamper2

I am surprised at all the negative comment about Griffner Coillte. I suppose people tend to write about negative experiences rather than positive ones! We built a Griffner Coillte house a few years ago and are completely satisified with the finish. We used our own house design and used Griffner for the build. We did not avail of the turnkey package due to the extra cost involved and instead project managed the various jobs ourselves. While there was some hassle at various stages along the way - delays, pricing etc - the end result is so impressive and well worth any inconveniences along the way. Our snag list was dealt with in full. We held back a portion of final payment until we had lived in the house for six months. I would highly recommend griffner if you want a unique high quality home.


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## Seabiscuit2

Thanks HappyCamper - that balances things out a bit....


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## demoivre

Seabiscuit2 said:


> Thanks HappyCamper - that balances things out a bit....



If you send me on your name/ bank account details I'll send you on a few bob to help you with the build !


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## Tommy B

Just reading the comments on Griffner Coillte Homes, not very inviting! i was wondering if any one knows how energy efficient they are? what rating would they get for BER cert?


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## Tommy B

For those of you who may be still interested in building, i have come across a company who can produce better then a A1 rated house, wow, which means in effect the u values and insulation has to be top class, they are German Passive Houses check them out for yourself www.passive.ie, i have a meeting with them next week to see if its for real!


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## Leo

Hi Tommy B, 3 or your 4 posts to date push this company, please disclose any association?
Leo


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## jack2009

Think the company has a lot of internal problems, their system does not work as well in Ireland as it does in Sweden/Denmark whereever they are from.


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## jack2009

I know they built a garage for a client, when the site manager went out to snag the site he noticed that their was no door for a car (just 4 walls)!  Think that gives you an idea how bad they are/can be!


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## Tommy B

Hi Leo, 

No I am not associated with this company, I am only wanting to share my experience of finding a good company in Ireland that offers turn key with super quality, Is this not what this site is about? However I will refrain from posting any more on this topic, if I decide to build with them I may come back and share it with you, as for Jack2009 the way in which he has put this company down can only say he is a competitor, a garage with no car door!!!!!!!!! Please.


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## Leo

Tommy B said:


> Hi Leo,
> 
> No I am not associated with this company, I am only wanting to share my experience of finding a good company in Ireland that offers turn key with super quality, Is this not what this site is about? However I will refrain from posting any more on this topic, if I decide to build with them I may come back and share it with you, as for Jack2009 the way in which he has put this company down can only say he is a competitor, a garage with no car door!!!!!!!!! Please.


 
Thanks Tommy. It is indeed part of what AAM is about. We occasionally get posters touting for business by pretending to be satisfied customers of their own services in the past, so we regularly check recommendations, particularly those from new members.
Leo


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## dreamer

hi
am hoping to build some form of passive\low energy house-about 190 sq metres
can anyone advise me on the price of diff options per sq foot?
particularly griffner/german passive [think 165 per sq ft]?
thanks
d


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## Buildright

I always find that the kit houses look wrong in the irish landscape, not as wrong as the ugly mock Georgian McMansions but similarly incongruous. Passive houses with high spec Architect designed finishes are being delivered turnkey for €2,100 per meter square turnkey including fittings and VAT in the Greater Dublin Area. Lower end finishes and simple compact forms can be delivered for €1,650 per meter square incl VAT. With near passive wide cavity masonery solutions being delivered down the country using local trades to finish for €1350 turnkey including Vat. (well most of the Vat anyway).

Simple forms suit the irish landscape and because of our climate we have a unique relationship between our inside and outside spaces, because of our grey rainy skies, we need large rooms which allow you to draw daylight into the building and allow you to feel engaged with the outside while enjoying indoor comfort. Architects are cheap as chips at the moment and will design what you want, not what they want, or more importantly what you thought you wanted before you knew better. 

Irish timber frame companies are providing high quality I-Beam or twin wall stud solutions, with render board or timber rainscreens. EPS formwork raft foundations now offer cheap out of the ground solutions which offer a cold bridge free ground connection. The Irish kit solution offers a cheaper and better quality build. Provided of course you have a competent person to supervise the build.


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## dreamer

happycamper2 said:


> I am surprised at all the negative comment about Griffner Coillte. I suppose people tend to write about negative experiences rather than positive ones! We built a Griffner Coillte house a few years ago and are completely satisified with the finish. We used our own house design and used Griffner for the build. We did not avail of the turnkey package due to the extra cost involved and instead project managed the various jobs ourselves. While there was some hassle at various stages along the way - delays, pricing etc - the end result is so impressive and well worth any inconveniences along the way. Our snag list was dealt with in full. We held back a portion of final payment until we had lived in the house for six months. I would highly recommend griffner if you want a unique high quality home.



hi
not necessarily sold on german/austrian/scand kit houses but somewhat wary re local builders knowledge /expertise in building true energy efficient houses.
basically we have got a site[complete with bog standard ber g bungalow cavity wall and concrete roof
if we could get someone with passive completed projects ,to either renovate and buid a second floor[externally insulating current walls and somewhow insulating retrograde floor with radon barrier we would hope to build a high energy rated approx 197 m2 house.

does anyone have any experience with this?
site in west cork by sea

regards
d


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## Buildright

There is a retro-fit of a 1970's dormer bungalow renovated up to Passiv-haus standard just finished in Rathdrum Wicklow, the owner found it would have been cheaper to build from scratch but as they weren't local needs they had no choice but to upgrade and extend. The house can be heated by half a toaster on the coldest day of the year and is also powered by windturbine and PV.


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## dreamer

interesting that it might have been cheaper to clear site and start from scratch-any input into build yourself?[buildright]if so ,would be glad of any other info, particularly with regard to pricing, and any photos most welcome.

regards
d


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## galwaytt

We've done a not-dissimilar upgrade to a house in Cratloe, Co Clare, under the auspices of Limerick architect.

'70s bungalow, fabulous site, mature lawns, fruit trees etc, and iirc planning restrictions (on a hill, over the Shannon), meant re-model was the only way to achieve the result, as new build could have been restrictive.    We only came on board post-planning, so architect would need to be consulted on specifics.

Yes, a new build, per sq ft, would be cheaper !


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## onq

Buildright said:


> I always find that the kit houses look wrong in the irish landscape, not as wrong as the ugly mock Georgian McMansions but similarly incongruous. Passive houses with high spec Architect designed finishes are being delivered turnkey for €2,100 per meter square turnkey including fittings and VAT in the Greater Dublin Area. Lower end finishes and simple compact forms can be delivered for €1,650 per meter square incl VAT. With near passive wide cavity masonery solutions being delivered down the country using local trades to finish for €1350 turnkey including Vat. (well most of the Vat anyway).
> 
> Simple forms suit the irish landscape and because of our climate we have a unique relationship between our inside and outside spaces, because of our grey rainy skies, we need large rooms which allow you to draw daylight into the building and allow you to feel engaged with the outside while enjoying indoor comfort. Architects are cheap as chips at the moment and will design what you want, not what they want, or more importantly what you thought you wanted before you knew better.
> 
> Irish timber frame companies are providing high quality I-Beam or twin wall stud solutions, with render board or timber rainscreens. EPS formwork raft foundations now offer cheap out of the ground solutions which offer a cold bridge free ground connection. The Irish kit solution offers a cheaper and better quality build. Provided of course you have a competent person to supervise the build.



Buildright, I am confused.

You appear to be promoting


kit house prices, but not foreign designs
architect designed Irish passive houses, but not architects _per se_ and
Irish timber frame products but with competent supervision [presumably not the architect].
  Am I understanding you correctly?
Are you providing a service in relation to passive housing?
I've checked this thread but I cannot find out if you have a connection to the industry.

TIA

ONQ.


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## Buildright

onq said:


> Buildright, I am confused.
> 
> You appear to be promoting
> 
> 
> kit house prices, but not foreign designs
> architect designed Irish passive houses, but not architects _per se_ and
> Irish timber frame products but with competent supervision [presumably not the architect].
> Am I understanding you correctly?
> Are you providing a service in relation to passive housing?
> I've checked this thread but I cannot find out if you have a connection to the industry.
> 
> TIA
> 
> ONQ.




Hi ONQ, 
I work in what used to be Architecture and specialise in building technology, I have been involved as an independent consultant on number of passive buildings. So I guess I do provide a service in relation to Passive houses. My experience has been mixed, but generally positive. There is a lot of myths about the passive concept, I'd just like to give the benifit of my experiences good and bad to help people make informed decisions. I'd hope to divulge this info in an unbiased way.

To answer your questions
I'm promoting passive housing no matter where it comes from, because I believe it provides a significantly better quality product than the conventional building industry can supply.

You don't need a qualified Architect to design a Passive house, but I believe all house designs require the input of a qualified architect to ensure it relates to its context sits comfortably in the landscape or streetscape. A lot of architects however see Energy as an inconvenience.

Timberframe is a preference, every building needs constant supervision by someone with oversight, no matter how detailed the construction drawings are. At the moment masonery solutions seem to be more familiar to trades and economical than timber frame. But that said their are 2 or 3 timber frame companies who are doing some top quality work. You only have to visit cloughjordan to compare the quality of various timber frame suppliers. 

 Selfbuilders often try to cut out the guy who has ultimate responsibility for quality control, call this a main contractor, clerk of works, project manager or architect. This usually results in low quality product. Thats what this thread is about ultimatly. You need an independant contract administrator, because most projects end with the clients having some level of disapointment.


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## onq

I have to say I see nothing in what you said that I disgree with Buildright an dthank you for coming clean about your involvement.

I would just add that for me the plan is the generator, and so the timber frame is like fitting a skeleton to the body, with some obvious limitations - is not just about context but about getting the internal planning right, particularly the procession of spaces and the relationship between the house proper, its public/private zones and the landscape/suburbanscape/townscape/cityscape

I endorse both passive housing and sustainability as far as it goes, but note that something can be economical to run and not be well designed or look well - that is the challenge with passive and sustainable developments - to make them appealing and appropriate in all the other ways a design must work.

To jump sideways a bit, its like the guy who buys a car solely because its a diese - there's more to live than passive design - it can take over, unnecessarily in my opinion, and it has to be balanced against other things - havin a north facing view window for example.

FWIW

ONQ.


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## galwaytt

..indeed, and if I can add my .02 as they say........three other factors I rarely see mentioned in 'spec' sheets,etc.

One is planning. If the CoCo say your house *must* face North, for example, and that you *must* have the front door/whatever there, then that I'm afraid that is that. If you are building with an eye to a specific performance level, and the planning condition/restriction conflicts with it, well people need to understand that that, basically, is that. We can't all have perfect orientation.

Second thing, a little more subjective from the client point of view, is personal choice, or taste. If a client wants a dormer, say, or a particular feature (door, window, space) then they should just have it, and if there is a small BER penalty, so be it. It's not the end of the world. 

Finally, related to the second, is personal _performance_ preference. For example, I know an arch with a lovely, recent, sea-side house. Totally traditional cavity block construction. OFCH, double-glazed uPVC. Has zero interest in anything else, and won't construct anything else for clients, either. Is onboard with the likes of solar, windpower (when it's ready) etc, but otherwise, it's 'as you were'. In a conversation once upon ago, on the subject of airtightness, he made a point regarding his own home. As he said, and he has a point, there is absolutely no merit in either measuring, or putting materials into, making his house airtight. The reason ? Because, from one end of the year to the other, winter and summer, he _never_ closes the upstairs windows. This is his, 'comfort level'. My personal experience in dealing with ladies who buy, as distinct from men who buy, is that there is a gulf, between, for the same reason. We're all familiar with the 'hogging the radiator' syndrome, in an old, cold house........  and in a new build, this comes up. Take for example a 2-storey we built. No performance goal, specifically, other than 'it has to be as warm as possible', the lady said. Fine. So, fine insulated, airtight walls (u-value around 0.18), UFH, solar panels, HRV, GSHP. And, not one, but 2 open fireplaces. Yep, 2 9" holes into the house. I can get over that, from a practical perspective, she's rural, has free turf, and she just _wants_ them. End of story. House is lovely and warm, and she's happy. But there's a twist: in getting her doors & windows, there was one door unit the mfr would NOT make for her: because, in this fabulous, efficient, warm house, she wanted a....................half-door. Yep, for those (rare) fine days, she wants to have the top half open to the outside world.......and no, there's no point in going on about the HRV system having a hissy-fit when it is, because.............it's what the lady wants.   More importantly, she's happy.   Sometimes, a little 'reverse' engineering of a situation (like that) works out very well.     Honestly ? She couldn't give a fig about the actual BER score, she has exactly what she wanted, her way.

I'm quite sure it kicked the rating into touch, but, pragmatically, it's still an extremely efficient house, compared to traditional stock.

Finally, just thought of this: when most people go to build, new, they aspire to the best. This is great, and, apart from the great leveller that is the current finance situation, sometimes they can't have the Rolls Royce version of their dream, and they get a bit deflated............my advice is: don't be. A lot of people think that if they are going to build at all, it 'must' be an A1. This is because they have an idea of what they think the rating of their house is (let's say a C3), and think the only leap worth making is A1, because B1 wouldn't be much better than they have. This is often folly for the following reasons: 1. A B1 house is still a good house, and 2. In reality, their existing house is probably a ..........E ? The point being, the jump to B1 is both a big qualitative leap, as well as being an affordable one.

All my 0.02, as they say........


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## sas

Some very good points about energy efficiency here along with personal tastes.

I am going the certified passive house route. It's become a personal challenge and nothing more. 

I plan to build to and meet the standard. I hope to do so for what I am told is an unrealistic budget. Both huge challenges, I am aware of this.

As regards Galwaytts point on the planning. I was in the preplanning meeting for my home. The front facade of my house is north facing so minimum no. of windows and small ones at that. I had a report from a PH specifier outling the aim of the house. The planner questioned the wall to glazing ratio on the front facade, they weren't terribly happy. I was very quick to point out that it was going to be a passive house and it was necessary. He seemed to accept that. I got the planning permission with no issues. With respect to the planners, they are not all the stereotypes we sometimes portray them as.

SAS


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## galwaytt

sas said:


> I was in the preplanning meeting for my home....... With respect to the planners, they are not all the stereotypes we sometimes portray them as.
> 
> SAS


 
True. But pre-planning meetings are non-binding. Case in point: my own house. I used an architect to do my plans, get planning, etc. As part of that process, a plan was arrived at in consultation with them, and the plans done accordingly.

The day the Arch was lodging the plans (a Friday), I got a call from the Arch and he told me he'd just spent an hour at the counter, lodging, or trying to lodge, the (pre-planning _'approved'_) drawings, and the planning staff told him if he insisted on lodging that plan, that they would summarily refuse on the Monday. There was a particular facade they said they would not accept, end of. Explanations of how the facade in particular was one that was informed by the pre-planning process, and had been _'approved'_ (sic), by them met with the response that 'that has nothing to do with this office.' 

So, Arch rang me, told me he was withdrawing the application, and on Monday he had to come up with a whole new facade, which dictated a new (different, longer) driveway (and all that that entails), and then lodge them.

Moral of the story? My faith in the pre-planning process, if it's non-binding, isn't great.


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## sas

galwaytt said:


> Moral of the story? My faith in the pre-planning process, if it's non-binding, isn't great.


 
Ah, but my point wasn't about the validity of the pre-planning process. It was that the planners sometimes do in fact listen to what people say and do pay attention to additional info. submitted with the application. And also that they will sometimes allow designs that don't specifically meet the existing guidelines.


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## galwaytt

....it's only true if the planners, and pre-planners, are on the same page.


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## fordefitz

dreamer said:


> if we could get someone with passive completed projects ,to either renovate and buid a second floor[externally insulating current walls and somewhow insulating retrograde floor with radon barrier we would hope to build a high energy rated approx 197 m2 house.
> 
> WOULD DEMOLISH AND REBUILD BE A POSSIBILITY, IN MY OPINION THIS WOULD BE ALOT EASIER AND COST EFFECTIVE FOR YOU.
> 
> site in west cork by sea
> 
> THIS IS VERY RELEVANT AS THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC HUMIDITY PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THE AREA. IF KNOCK AND REBUILD IS POSSIBLE I WOULD RECOMMEND HAVING A LOOK AT www.hanse-haus.com


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## thady

Griffner Coillte has built quite a lot of houses in Ireland but now they have completely left the country.
Does anyone have a contact name/number/email for them to deal with matters arising?
For example window maintenance, key replacements etc.
Thanks.


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## mayobob

Hi,
AS far as I know there is no contacts left in Ireland!  The best i got was a liquidator in limerick who never returned calls.  You can still get a response from Girffner in Austria is you're persistant.  I imagine you could order keys from them if you still have the info-card that came with the keys?
There is a dealer for Hrako-Wina windows listed here:[broken link removed]
But I have never tried to contact so don't know if they're still around.  I seem to remember a guy from Ulster Windows was working with Griffner to install them?
regards.


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## mayobob

Just wondering if any Griffner house builders are still on here? Any updates on how the houses are holding up these days?


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## Iangriffner

Hi.   March 2013 have just found this site after looking on the web after finding that Griffner have gone bust!!    We have a griffner house in Austria, and are delighted, if anyone is interested I am quite prepared to discuss ups and downs.   ian


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