# Problems when separated dad has kids



## elainem (13 Apr 2011)

My sister is separated about 3 years. Ex is difficult, contact is through email. My sis moved to get away - 10 miles apart. My sis' conern is that when the children go over at weekends (ages 11 and 9), they say they are always hungry, and are only allowed 3 meals a day. When they ask for snacks, even healthy ones like bread/cheese etc. , they are not allowed them, no matter how hungry they are. Ex's new wife is also not allowed to give the children any snacks between meals even when they are really hungry. If dinner is at 4/5, they are not allowed any food untill the next morning. My sis' daughtre said it's hard to sleep sometimes as she is so hungry. The children say that they have to rely on neighbours to ask for snacks and that they actually ask the nighbours and their children for snacks when they are really hungry. The kids also say that their dad's fridge is full to the brim, though he doesn't have any kids food like yogurts etc. The children have now asked their mum to speak with their dad, but he won't listen. They now don't want to go over at weekends because of this. My sis' doctor was also quite shocked when she said what was happening. Any ideas on how to deal with this - legally or otherwise - not sure if it would be something she could go back to court with - but don't want the hassle and expense of legal route if there is another way. 

Thanks.


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## niceoneted (13 Apr 2011)

Its a difficult one. Could she perhaps pack some snacks for the kids when they are going to their dads. 
She will have to address it with him. Perhaps even to get bigger portions for their meals. 
Other than that I am not sure what to advise.


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## Bronte (14 Apr 2011)

Nothing wrong with 3 meals a day and no snacks.  Never knew there was such a thing as kids food.  Never knew yogurt was a kids food only.  You learn something new everyday.  

Looks to me like the mother gives snacks and the father doesn't.  Her house her rules, his house his rules.  If this is the only problem this is not a problem.  Don't make it a problem.  Kids will whinge no matter what.  That's what they do to separated parents.


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## AlbacoreA (14 Apr 2011)

Thats fine. But the kids shouldn't be hungry so they can't sleep in the normal run of things.


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## Magpie (14 Apr 2011)

Whats with the title? No "step-dad" in this story?

Mod: Dealt with now.


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## truthseeker (14 Apr 2011)

The title did say 'sep dad' - which I took to mean 'seperated dad'. Now it incorrectly says 'step dad'.

OP - if the children are hungry this is not right. While I broadly agree with Bronte that 3 meals a day and no snacks should be ok for a child, clearly if the children are actually complaining that they cant sleep with hunger, something is wrong. The 3 meals either need to be bigger or healthy snacks given in between.

If the children do not want to go to their Dads over this then perhaps the OP needs to take this on board and explain to their father how the children feel. 

Its a tough one to know what to do, the children could just be playing up and exagerating the hunger levels and just not be happy that they dont get snacks, or they could genuinely be hungry. It would sound odd tbh that the father has a fridge full of food but doesnt want to feed his children.

I dont believe that children should be forced to visit seperated parent under duress either. They will resent that and as soon as they are allowed to make the decision for themselves they will stop seeing him. They may also resent their mother for 'making' them see their father.


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## zen (14 Apr 2011)

Children (esp at that age) take advantage of these situations.  My friend is terrified to disipline his two kids if they step out of line and jumps to some heights when the kids demands aren't met.  It's soul destroying to see, he's damned if he does and damned if he dont for fear of thems saying "we're not coming here".  As we dont know the intimite details its hard to tell.  Perhaps the kids are a little overweight and he is being an adult by watching what they are eating and the mother gives them everything they want, again, perhaps not, I only have 3 meals a day and so does my family neices and nephews.  I dont think the father (who is not online to defend himself) is purposefully starving his kids despite having a fridge full of grub, but who am I to guess, like most of these types of threads, we'll never know unless the other party comes onto the thread.


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## dahamsta (14 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> clearly if the children are actually complaining that they cant sleep with hunger, something is wrong.



Or they're lying to get attention or to just play games, as has been pointed out. If I believed everything my kids say, I'd be bankrupt.

OP, find out how big the meals are, and if they're inadequate, fix it. And stop feeding your kids snacks as if they're some kind of right, it's a nonsense. If they're getting snacks, they should be a treat; and then only as positive reinforcement.

"Only allowed 3 meals a day". Honest to god.


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## Kate10 (14 Apr 2011)

Jeez guys are we back in the 50's here or something?  Young children get more than three meals a day because they need them.  I'm pretty sure that the "three meals a day" thing is pretty old hat at this stage.  My toddler has breakfast at home, at creche as morning snack, main meal at lunchtime, afternoon snack, then tea at home.  Her snacks are fresh or dried fruit (eg raisins), yoghurts, and mini sandwiches.  Three meals a day seems pretty draconian to me.  Snacks aren't treats.


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## pinkyBear (14 Apr 2011)

If it were me in the situation, I would bring it up - but I would do it gently, as there are different homes involved with different rules. 

Your sister could give the father treats for the kids saying something like "they were really good in school, and everytime they are I like to reward them"... Sometimes kids do exaggerate, and sometimes they tell the truth, and as a parent you have to cipher out which is which... If the kids are young, snacks (such as fruit) is important, and should be encouraged..
P..


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## ali (14 Apr 2011)

Kate10 said:


> Jeez guys are we back in the 50's here or something? Young children get more than three meals a day because they need them. I'm pretty sure that the "three meals a day" thing is pretty old hat at this stage. My toddler has breakfast at home, at creche as morning snack, main meal at lunchtime, afternoon snack, then tea at home. Her snacks are fresh or dried fruit (eg raisins), yoghurts, and mini sandwiches. Three meals a day seems pretty draconian to me. Snacks aren't treats.


 
+ 1

Very strong evidence to suggest that children and adults who eat little and often according to appetite maintain a healthier bodyweight and more nutritionally balanced diet. My children very rarely sit down to large dinners any more than I do. Eating when hungry seems like the obvious thing to do to me.

I also agree with other posters who point out that snacks aren't treats and food should not be used as a reward - it only leads to problems. That's not to say you should ban icecreams or sweets. Just use common sense.


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## ramble (14 Apr 2011)

There is a big difference between a toddler and 9 and 11 year olds.  I have given my kids only 3 meals a day, no snacks, (except after school for primary school children - lunch break too short for a proper meal) since they were about 4, although fruit is freely available (not often eaten).  Some kids come over to play and seem to need food every 2 hours.  If someone else's kid asks for food I'm not going to say no.  But I notice that the snacky kids eat about half the portion of food at mealtimes as my kids.  
I think this needs to be approached carefully, the children are clearly used to snacks and may not eat enough at mealtimes to make up the difference.  Dad has a point too, if you prepare three meals a day for a whole family, and clean up, that's a lot of work, add in snacks, more work, more cleaning, more on-call for parent.  Also you may as well cook substantial meals as small ones, 6 half meals is a lot more work than 3 full meals
A 9 and 11 year old should be able to manage without snacks, you should check the adequacy of the meals, if they are getting white bread sandwiches for lunch, that won't last til dinner, likewise ricecrispies for breakfast, if the food is insubstantial then it needs to be addressed, if it is substantial but they eat small portions then maybe you need to just be positive and supportive of dad's different ways, encourage them to eat more at meals. Once they go to secondary school they will have a very long day with little snacking opportunity and need to be used to a big breakfast and substantial lunch.


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## Kate10 (14 Apr 2011)

Think Ramble's post is really sensible.  However if the kids spend more time at Mum's and are used to snacks think that this is how they should be fed at Dad's until they are a bit older and more able to adjust.  Simple healthy snacks like fruit and yoghurts aren't much work really.


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## dahamsta (14 Apr 2011)

A snack is not a meal, it's a _snack_. If children need to eat more often, they should have smaller _meals_. Snacks should only be used as treats, again as positive reinforcement. (The food isn't the reward, the _treat_ is. If your children don't understand that, don't give them snacks.)


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## Magpie (14 Apr 2011)

Thats total rubbish. You don't use needed food as treats, unless you want to hand them an eating disorder on a plate.


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## truthseeker (14 Apr 2011)

dahamsta said:


> A snack is not a meal, it's a _snack_. If children need to eat more often, they should have smaller _meals_. Snacks should only be used as treats, again as positive reinforcement. (The food isn't the reward, the _treat_ is. If your children don't understand that, don't give them snacks.)


 
I dont agree with this at all. Food shouldnt be used as any kind of reward with children! Its not dog training.


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## Kate10 (14 Apr 2011)

Snack means a small meal eaten between main meals.  It does not mean a treat which is a different thing.


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## Kate10 (14 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> i dont agree with this at all. Food shouldnt be used as any kind of reward with children! Its not dog training.



+ 1


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## Sue Ellen (14 Apr 2011)

It never ceases to amaze me at the different views that parents have on how to feed their children.  When I regularly found apple butts in our back garden I mentioned it to our neighbour and she confirmed that the kids were *stealing* her apples and hiding the evidence by throwing them into our back garden   I on the other hand couldn't get mine to eat apples.

One work colleague told me that his kids had him tormented with the tales that they carried about each childminder that they had down through the years.  One supposedly fed them bread/dripping and water only!

I'm not saying above that the father is not to blame but there are always two sides to every story.


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## elainem (14 Apr 2011)

*Problems with separated dad and kids*

Hi! Everyone, thanks for all your replies. The kids are happy to go to their dads. They don't want to stop going. There have been other issues over time, but they've been resolved. My sister has offered to pack a tuck box of healthy snacks, but her ex has refused to allow them to be brought into his house. Our cousin is a G.P. and has said that the recommended for kids of that age is 3 meals a day plus two healthy snacks. The kids are both very tall for their age also. Thanks again for the comments. Food for thought!!


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## dahamsta (15 Apr 2011)

truthseeker said:


> I dont agree with this at all. Food shouldnt be used as any kind of reward with children! Its not dog training.



If more people gave their children the same basic training they give to their beloved pets, we might have less of a crime problem and less of a basic _stupidity _problem in Ireland. At the very least, they might have a _modicum_ of respect for their parents and people in general, instead of the ignorant mollycoddled prigs that are prevalent these days. And I include their parents in that, since it's not a new thing.


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## SarahMc (15 Apr 2011)

The real issue here is the relationship between the two parents. As a separated parent who has a good relationship with my ex, I can say when we swop stories about what our daughter has told each of us about how hard done by she is in the other parent's house, it is testament to childhood imagination and exageration.

Examples: She is allowed to read until midnight in her dad's house.
She can cycle without a helmet in my house.
Her school shoes have holes in them.

Were we to only communicate via email or believe everything she says, either one of us could be up in arms.

I am not saying these children are lying, or exaggerating, but they _could_ be, and as they get older good communication between the parents will become more important, not less so.


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## elainem (15 Apr 2011)

*Problems with separated dad and kids*

Hi! Sarah, thanks for your reply. I don't think my sis' kids are actually exaggerating - they genuinely want to go to their dads. My sister has to email her ex as it was an abusive relationship. My sister is still afraid to confront him directly. Sometimes emails are the only way for people who are dealing with a person who has repeatedly threatened them and made them fear for their own safety. Some people are lucky, but not all, to have reasonable ex spouses.


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## gianni (16 Apr 2011)

elainem said:


> My sister has offered to pack a tuck box of healthy snacks, but her ex has refused to allow them to be brought into his house.



Based on this, it sounds like the food is not the real problem. More of a power struggle between the two parents involved. *His *house = *his *rules v's what the mother wants for *her *kids.


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## liaconn (18 Apr 2011)

He sounds very controlling to be honest. Refusing to let the kids have snacks of any kind, refusing to let the mother pack some snacks, refusing to let his new wife give the kids snacks. Basically, his way or no way. I know there's two sides to every story but making a big stand off about something like this makes him sound stubborn to the point of obsessive.


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## casiopea (18 Apr 2011)

I think the problem here is not so much whether or not snacks are healthy /necessary (another topic for another thread imho) but rather that there are 2 different methods in 2 different households with little communication between them.

If the kids are used to snacks between meals or before bed then its not weird that they would highlight the lack of snacks in the other house and that they would be hungry for them.

First of all - determine if the 3 meals are large enough.  If so then its only a communication problem. Either - change your regime to 3 large meals a day and no snacks or drop an email to the Ex explaining you would like healthy snacks included. In short try to align the 2 households that you are doing the same thing to reduce confusion with the children.  For example agree with the Ex that the only snack available in both houses is fruit.  Compromise is key.


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## alaskaonline (19 Apr 2011)

Interesting thread and interesting responses.

OP - abusive relationship or not, you'd be surprised how many people can't directly communicate once they've separated. Email seems to be the modern way only if at all so at least the medium is there for her.

I tend to agree with others that the whole food thing sounds like a power struggle between both parents. I think for her suggesting to pack a food box while the kids are in his care is out of line and he probably feels undermined and rightly so cause as this thread highlighted everyone has a different idea of what is enough when it comes to eating. When the kids complain to the mother, what are they actually saying in terms of when they tell their dad that they're still hungry what is his response? He must say something back to them? Also how often does he have them incl. overnight?

One thing to bare in mind, kids are used to a certain routine and if they spend most days with Mum and Mum feeds them more than 3 meals then this is what they're used to. It doesn't mean that Dad's goal is to starve them...Also you said that the fridge is packed. What exactly is in the fridge and what happens if kids just go and get a yogurt out of the fridge? When I was their age there was no problem with me getting food (snacks like yogurts or fruits) out of the fridge myself without someone putting it under my nose....


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## elainem (27 Apr 2011)

*Problem with separated dad and kids*

Hi! Askonline, thanks for your comments. Maybe he did feel undermined when my sister offered to prepare a tuck box. However, re the fridge, the children are not permiitted under any circumstances to take any food or drink from the fridge. Their dad refuses to stock any yogurts or other foods that the children might like. They are not even allowed to take a slice of bread from the bread bin if they are hungry. The children do stay overnight at their dad. My sister is actually afraid of her ex. I feel for my sister because I think he is being extremely controlling and just doing it to get back at her because she was the one who had the temerity to leave him 4 years ago.


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