# Another emigration + NE story.



## TimeBomb (25 Aug 2013)

I have a fixed interest mortgage on my house (NE~90k) and a tracker mortgage on an investment property (NE~135k). I'm not struggling to make repayments, but I hate my job and I'm left with very little disposable income, hence I've decided to emigrate. I have no intention of remaining a landlord from a couple of thousand miles away so will be leaving the properties empty (letting both will leave me a few thousand short each year anyway). As I plan on emigrating in order to return to full-time study, probably for 4-6 years, is there any point in me even talking to the banks? I won't be able to offer them any repayments once I leave. I've no problem going to the UK first for a year for bankruptcy there. Seems to me the banks are going to lose the negative equity portion of the loans no matter what they or I do. Would the banks agree to write off some debt if I tell them I might stay here after all?  


*Personal and income details
Net *(i.e. after tax) Income self: Private sector employment:E38,000 

*Home loan
*Lender:ICS  
Amount outstanding: E270,000
Value of home: E180,000
Interest rate:      fixed rate 5%
Monthly repayment:E1500 
Amount in arrears: None.

*Investment property - *Delete if not applicable 
Lender: AIB
Amount outstanding: E235,000
Value of home: E99,000
Interest rate: tracker
Monthly repayment :E870
Amount in arrears :None
Monthly rent received :E800

*
How important is retaining the family home to you? 
*
I don't care about keeping the family home. 

*
What is your preferred realistic outcome? 
*My preferred outcome is that I end up free from all debts.

P.S. I have not decided to where I'll be emigrating. I have options from colleges in various countries including some from outside the EU.


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## honest (26 Aug 2013)

TimeBomb said:


> but I hate my job and I'm left with very little disposable income, hence I've decided to emigrate. ,


 
lots of people hate our/their jobs and do not have much disposable income but stay in the country in which they were reared in / reside.



TimeBomb said:


> I have no intention of remaining a landlord from a couple of thousand miles away so will be leaving the properties empty (letting both will leave me a few thousand short each year anyway). ,


why?  can you afford to lose the rental income they would generate?   If you do not want to become a landlord you should not have bought the investment property.  The rent on the investment property is almost paying the mortgage.  You could get an agent to manage the rental, but that would cost a % of the rent obviously.


TimeBomb said:


> As I plan on emigrating in order to return to full-time study, probably for 4-6 years,


 how would you fund full time study for 4-6 years?  Is there something missing here? 

Basicall, your negative equity is 226k  ( 90k and 136k).  You earn quite a good wage ( 38k after tax ) and your disposable income ( after mortgage repayments ) is half that.  After paying your mortgages, can you not live quite well on the after tax income of 19k a year? 


Overall, if your heart is in emigrating / getting more qualifications, and as you say you have no problem going to the UK first for a year for bankruptcy there, in my humble opinion thats probably the best option for you.  Its sad though that your negative equity alone is 6 times your income.  In a well regulated economy you would not get a mortgage for 6 times your income, never mind end up owing negative equity of 6 times your income.
Why did the banks lend you at least 13 times your income?  Bet the bank manager involved got a bonus and/or did not take any pain for that awful decision!


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## nec (28 Aug 2013)

If I may suggest I would do another scenario:

I would rent out both properties (even if this involve estate agent), forward all rental income to the bank (even if this doesn't cover mortgages).

Leave and go abroad, do study or work there.

See what happens within 4-6 years. 

If things are still gloomy then I would go to UK.


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## Jim2007 (28 Aug 2013)

TimeBomb said:


> As I plan on emigrating in order to return to full-time study, probably for 4-6 years



So if your struggling with your current financial situation, how are you planning on financing 4-6 years full time education in a foreign country???


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## orka (28 Aug 2013)

Jim2007 said:


> So if your struggling with your current financial situation,


The OP is not struggling financially - just doesn't like his/her job.

From a financial point of view, there's not a lot wrong with the OP's financial situation. There's no mention of unemployment/severely reduced income since the mortgages were taken out.  The repayments on the principal residence are what they would have been even without negative equity so it's not like things have got 'worse' there - except the perception that NE is bad and something to be escaped from. The investment property is being topped up by €70 per month (plus expenses) which isn't that bad - and again, is no worse that could have been foreseen when the property was bought. I don't think the banks would (or should) offer any debt write-off in this situation.


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## TommyB (28 Aug 2013)

Selfish and entitled. So your investments didn't work out and the working life isn't for you so you wan to dump them on the rest of us. 

I know of at least one bank that is looking at the long game. A customer might stop paying and emigrate to australia or whereever. They might build a life for themselves and have a bit of wealth again in ten years time. Leaving Ireland will not make you safe to debt enforcements abroad. People are very traceable these days.


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## Time (28 Aug 2013)

Read up on the statute of limitations Tommy. There is no way they can do anything 10 years later if there has been no payment or acknowledgement of the debt.


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## TommyB (29 Aug 2013)

Time said:


> Read up on the statute of limitations Tommy. There is no way they can do anything 10 years later if there has been no payment or acknowledgement of the debt.



The lender only has to initiate legal proceedings within 6 years. From their they have an indefinite period to complete proceedings and then 12 years with which to follow up a judgement.


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## Cantalia (29 Aug 2013)

Tommy when does the six year period start to run, is it from the last payment made against the loan, be it interest or capital?


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## TommyB (29 Aug 2013)

I would say it is from the date that the loan agreement was breached.


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## Time (29 Aug 2013)

It is very difficult to start proceedings in Ireland if good service cannot be made.


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## TimeBomb (1 Sep 2013)

Let me clarify a few points. It's not simply a case of disliking a job,  it's a case where job related stress is causing health problems e.g.,  skin complaints, depression, cardiac arrhythmia. I have to leave the  job, end of story. 

I am what's known as an accidental landlord. I  drew down a mortgage on a house with the intention of selling the  apartment, but the brown stuff hit the fan and now I'm stuck with it. Rent of E800 pm doesn't come close to covering mortgage of E870 pm as I can only claim tax relief on 75% of interest paid. I also have other associated costs with this apartment. 

My parents will pay for my college fees, and perhaps some other costs.

I have no intention of simply walking away, I will be engaging with the banks.


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## Jim2007 (1 Sep 2013)

Time said:


> It is very difficult to start proceedings in Ireland if good service cannot be made.



On the contrary, as long as the bank continues to make every reasonable effort to collect the statute will not be enforced against them by the courts.


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## Time (1 Sep 2013)

Sending letters to dud addresses that no one is living in does not count as an acknowledgement. 

The statute is very clear on this.


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## Jim2007 (1 Sep 2013)

Time said:


> Sending letters to dud addresses that no one is living in does not count as an acknowledgement.
> 
> The statute is very clear on this.



Yes I well ware of that and that was not what I was suggesting...


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## dannygael (1 Sep 2013)

TommyB said:


> Selfish and entitled. So your investments didn't work out and the working life isn't for you so you wan to dump them on the rest of us.
> 
> I know of at least one bank that is looking at the long game. A customer might stop paying and emigrate to australia or whereever. They might build a life for themselves and have a bit of wealth again in ten years time. Leaving Ireland will not make you safe to debt enforcements abroad. People are very traceable these days.


 
Nonsense. Banks are very unlikely to try and track you on the other side of the world, unless the sums involved are large enough. They are not in this case. So long as the bank doesn't have your address, you'll be fine. Anyone in a similar position to the OP, as I am, ignore the fear mongering, do what's best for you and your family, live your life and let the banks swing. People will criticize, but so what. the only caveat I would add is in the event of someone returning to Ireland.


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