# Anti Social Tenants



## mrsatroy (26 Mar 2013)

I have a tenant on a fixed term lease since last November. Yesterday I received a phonecall from another residnet in the estate who had stones catapulted at her by the tenants 10 year old son. She had phoned the Grdai to complain and just wanted to make me aware of this and a number of prolems with my tenant. 

Overflowing rubbish bins left in front of house, screaming rows in the street between my tenant and a "gentleman caller". An incident on New Years Eve where said caller is alleged to have came out of house with a knife after neighbours refused him permission to use the toilet. 

The only things I can really vouch for are the stone throwing as the Gardai have been informed, and the rubbish as the local council have been informed - all other stories are heresay. 

I was wondering if anyone had any advice as to how to proceed in this matter - write a letter warning tenant of breaches? Do I mention anti social behaviour? In a bit of a quandry here!


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## delgirl (26 Mar 2013)

[broken link removed] you can send to your tenant.

I would have a word with the tenant beforehand, either on the phone or preferably in person and take someone with you.

Explain that you have received complaints, you know that the Gardai were notified of an incident involving the son and that the Council have been informed regarding the overflowing bins.

See if you can get a copy of the Garda report or a case number or the name of the Garda who dealt with the complaint. Also see if you can get anything in writing from the Council regarding the rubbish and ask the neighbours who complained about the overflowing bins if they have photos.

Collect as much evidence as you can and record a timeline of events just in case you have to evict the tenant and he/she goes to the PRTB to make a complaint.


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## mrsatroy (2 Apr 2013)

Thanks for the reply - I attempted to contact tenant but failed so I have sent a letter outling complaints and told her if I receive any further complaints I will take appropriate action. I have spoken to the 2 residents who have complained and the vast majority of their accusations etc. are at this point circumstantial (they are probably true) but I tried to explain that this doesn't help me if I end up in front of the PRTB! People seem to think that you can just evitct someone on a whim - and one of those resis=dents who have complained is a solicitor and she told me "there are ways and measn of getting people like this out". Again not very helpful with the PRTB! She also took great pains to outline to me how the tenants 11 year old son adn his friends are always hanging around kicking the wall etc. again what I am I supposed to do here?? I feel at this point I have done as much as I can and just have to monitor the situation.


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## delgirl (4 Apr 2013)

I would follow up the letter with a phone call or visit to the property to confirm a) that the tenant received the letter and b) that he/she understands that you will be obliged to take action should there be any further complaints.

I would also ask the 2 complainants to put their complaints to you in writing detailing the nature of the complaints, the times and dates of the incidents and any other relevant information they can give you. Also ask them if they would be prepared to act as witnesses if there should be a case taken with the PRTB. If they're not prepared to do this, they have to understand that it makes it extremely difficult for you to take any action against the tenant.

In return, I would mail a copy of the letter you sent to the tenant to the 2 complainants to show them that you have in fact taken action.

As your tenant has a fixed term lease, you will have to prove that he/she or others residing at the property are guilty of anti-social behaviour. You therefore need to make sure you have all the relevant paperwork i.e. Garda report, council complaint copy, letters from 2 neighbours detailing their complaints, copy of your letter to the tenant and a time log of all complaints, who the complainants were and your reaction to them. If you can get photos or video footage, that's even better.

If the tenant at any time fails to pay the rent on the specified date, you should immediately issue a Rent Arrears Notice and, if the outstanding rent or any part thereof is not paid within 14 days, immediately issue a Notice of Termination of Tenancy.  Read the instructions of how to word and serve the notices carefully, if they are not served exactly as laid out, they will be deemed invalid.

I had the same issue with awful tenants last year who were dealing drugs from my property and attracting large numbers of teenagers to the house, which is in a very quiet cul-de-sac. These teenagers damaged my neighbours garden walls, they literally kicked them in, and threatened to damage cars and all sorts. However, I was unable to go after the tenant for anti-social behaviour as the neighbours were afraid of him and wouldn't complain to the Gardai or put their concerns in writing to me.

In the end, I had to use the rent arrears notice and the Gardai to get them out. They did around €2,000 worth of damage to the property and we also had to pay to have the neighbours walls rebuilt.


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## mrsatroy (4 Apr 2013)

Again thanks for the information and advice. I have spoken to the tenant regarding the complaint - needless to say she refuted all allegations and feels threatened now and believes someone is "out to get her". Within 24 hours I received a call from a neighbour across the road relating an incident regarding a screaming row in the street between some man who appeared to be staying in the house with the tenant and some woman who called to the door. Again I asked her to put complaint in writing and she basically said if she puts her name to anything she would fear for her safety. She got quite irate when I outlined to her that I had done as much as I could and was acting on the advice of the PRTB. Again she told me that I could get this tenant out if I wanted to. 
Later in the day I was phoned by another resident demanding to know what else did I intend to do. She again said rubbish was coming from the property. As before I explained to her how I needed complaints in writing should I require them for the PRTB. Her reply to this was that I was jumping 5 steps ahead and that this tenant had been evicted before and wouldn't use the PRTB. Again she got quite irate when I outlined that I had done as much as I can at this point and she basically insinuated I should just issue a N of T. (All this coming from a solicitor). At this moment in time the complainants are causing me more of headache than the tenant as they seem to think I should just operate above the law in order to get this tenant out.


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## Bronte (4 Apr 2013)

mrsatroy said:


> they seem to think I should just operate above the law in order to get this tenant out.


 
Yes the residents probably do think that. They're not interested in your problems with the PRTB and they probably want you to physically evict the tenant and they really couldn't care less about what legal hot water that might land you in. It's a fault with the Act that it's so difficult to get rid of vile tenants. And I say vile because two residents, including a solicitor, are so afraid of the tenants they won't supply you with complaints in writing. 

Would the residents be willing to speak to the Gardai and then you'd have a report from the Gardai to justify your notice to the tenants for eviction for anti social behaviour. 

I certainly don't envy you this mess, a landlords worst nightmare.

Here's another idea. Give the two residents your mobile number, you need to get them onside so you can all 3 tackle this. Tell them to phone you the minute there is a problem and then you phone the Gardai each time to build up a case. Discuss this with the two residents, they may be willing to do this as it will be you complaining to officialdom and not them. You never know Gardai calling everyday might make the tenant move on quickly.


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## mrsatroy (4 Apr 2013)

Bronte said:


> It's a fault with the Act that it's so difficult to get rid of vile tenants.


 
Yes I thoroughly agree and I have tried to explain to the of the complainants again and again that unfortunately the law does little or nothing to aid the LL in these kind of situations and that all the protection is for the tenant.

There is one Garda report that I can get in relation to an incident invloving the tenants son and one of the complainants - but again the complainant is unwilling to let me use this as evidence of anti-social behaviour.

I really am trying here to get the residents to work with me on this but I cannot work with nothing and despite their pressures I am not willing to not follow due process and operate above the law.


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## Bronte (4 Apr 2013)

mrsatroy said:


> I really am trying here to get the residents to work with me on this but I cannot work with nothing and despite their pressures I am not willing to not follow due process and operate above the law.


 
You're not getting it, the residents are petrified. You need to do something. I know it's difficult but either do the complaints to the gardai yourself (with the info from the residents), or evict illegally and suffer the possible financial consequences or bribe the tenant to leave. Begin with a chat with the local gardai and see what they say.  Off the record chats can be a mine of information.  

If you go back on all Delgirls posts on bad tenants that would be a good starting place for you. 

In case it's not coming across correctly you have no idea how much sympathy I have for you.


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## mrsatroy (4 Apr 2013)

I have already been liasing with the Community Garda on this matter and have been advised by her to tread extermely carefully in relation to this tenant. She is staying in contact with me regarding any issues that may arise and I am in the process of letting her know about the incident yesterday repoted to me by one of the residents regarding the row in the street. I have no problem bringing issues/complaints to the Gardai and from the outset kept a careful record of each of the complaints but even when I suggested this to one of the complainants she said no as she could be identified by the complaint. 

I have considered that at the end of said tenants lease putting the house on the market for a period. I have already contacted my mortgage provider and it appears I could go interest only for a period while the house was vacant. Aslo on the advice of the PRTB I do not have to give the current tenant the right of first refusal when I put the house up for rental again but I was refurbishing etc. I would have to. The obnly problem with this is that the fixed term lease does not expire till November which is a very long time in the current circumstances.


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## delgirl (5 Apr 2013)

You have already warned the tenant that if there was any further anti-social behaviour the tenancy would be terminated.  Now that a further incident has occurred on Wednesday, I would move to terminate her tenancy on these grounds and see how she reacts.  If you don't, she will see your warning as meaningless and will carry on as normal.

If you decide to issue the notice to terminate, ask the local Gardai to accompany you to the property and hand it to her in person.  

They already have complaints of violence and breach of the peace at the house and if you fear a 'further breach of the peace' and for 'your personal safety' when you serve the notice, they will accompany you.  My solicitor, who is a former Guard, advised me to do this and I have to say the Gardai were fantastic when I told them I was afraid of the tenant.  They sent 2 Guards with me in a marked unit.

As soon as my tenant saw the Gardai, he suddenly darted behind the front door and said he would leave asap. 

Don't let this one bad tenant put you off renting out your property - I had fantastic tenants move in after we had cleared up the drug-dealers mess.


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## Bronte (5 Apr 2013)

delgirl said:


> If you decide to issue the notice to terminate, ask the local Gardai to accompany you to the property and hand it to her in person.
> 
> 
> I have to say the Gardai were fantastic when I told them I was afraid of the tenant. They sent 2 Guards with me in a marked unit.
> ...


 
All excellent advice there Delgirl.  I think it's extremely important that the Gardai accompany her as the Gardai have already 'warned' her about this tenant.  That means they know a lot more than they are willing to say.  

I also agree that a landlord shouldn't be put off by one bad tenant.  They're not all bad.  And the vast majority are good or excellent.


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## Kine (5 Apr 2013)

I just live in fear of the day I get a tenant like this...thank God my two to date have been great. 

Great advise and I would follow it (you need brass balls to do the "get them out if you want to" route)


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