# Baby sitting on Mother's lap in Front Passenger Seat



## highly (19 Jun 2008)

Last night, driving home from work, I saw something which really really angered me. There are very few things in life which make my blood boil - but this really did.

I saw a car doing an illegal right turn - but as the car turned out in front of us, I saw that the female adult passenger had a 4/5 month baby in her arms in the front passenger seat. She was playing with the child who had her arms in the air. She clearly was not strapped in to any safety device. The child was sitting on her lap facing out towards the windscreen. 

We happened to be going in the same direction for about 5 minutes and at one stage the mother (or whoever she was) put her hair up in a bobbin - leaving the child completely "free". 

To compound the fact, my fiancé, (who is a bit of a car expert) knows that this particular brand / model of car has a a passenger airbag and if anyone had even clipped the back of the car, the airbag would have gone up and the child would have been killed instantly.

I saw the child very clearly 3 times. (in my heart of hearts, I was hoping it was a doll - but trust me, it most definitely was a live child)

I took the reg, make and model of the car - is there anything I can do?

In the same week that a 3 month old child was killed with her mother in Donegal, I truly cannot fathom the stupidity of some people. 

Any advise?


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

> is there anything I can do?



Of course, tell the gardai what you say you witnessed and ask them to follow up with the driver of the car.


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## Bubbly Scot (19 Jun 2008)

This is something I have noticed a LOT since I moved to Ireland. Children on laps (back and front seats), unrestrained childrens dancing around in the back. Driver ofcourse is ALWAYS strapped in, most probably to avoid a fine. With the standard of driving in Ireland and the high number of fatalities I really don't understand why people risk their most treasured children by allowing them to be exposed to such danger.

"We're only popping down the road, they'll be grand" and "S/he hates being strapped in, it's not worth the tantrum" are the two excuses I've heard over and over. There was a very poinant advert on tv recently asking parents to think about what they're doing letting children sit loose in a car. End shot showed two loving (but irresponsible) parents standing at their childs grave.

Sorry, I hijacked your question with a rant of my own. I am trained to assist in such situations and the stories I've heard, but thankfully never witnessed, have caused me many sleepless nights. My friends know this is one thing I feel very strongly about and won't ever consider asking me to carry a child unrestrained (and yes, one or two have driven past me very sheepish looking with a child on a lap as you described because they know the next coffee date will involve a lecture).

As to what you can do, it might be worth a call to the guards but it might not achieve much. That said though, you might just help save that childs life and save a paramedic the trauma of the aftermath.


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## highly (19 Jun 2008)

Sorry - My wording wasn't great....

Will the garda listen to something like that or am I just wasting my time?

Thanks


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

> Sorry - My wording wasn't great....
> 
> Will the garda listen to something like that or am I just wasting my time?



I am sure they take these matters very seriously, insist on it being followed up, I see in my local paper a woman was fined 600 euro in court for carrying a child unrestrianed.


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## MandaC (19 Jun 2008)

It is something I have witnessed too. Also children and dogs bouncing around in the back seats of cars.

Would it be worth calling that traffic watch thing.  Is that still in place, or has anybody used it?


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## heretohelp (19 Jun 2008)

on the issues of dogs unrestrained ,a lady crashed into the back of me two years ago, i was parked and she was driving along and her dog jumped on top if her and she swerved into the back of me , my two kids were in the back , luckily strapped in.

report it , then its in the hands of the guards and you will have done your bit


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

> Would it be worth calling that traffic watch thing.  Is that still in place, or has anybody used it?



Yes apparently it is - Traffic Watch: *      Lo-Call 1890 205 805*


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## gillarosa (19 Jun 2008)

The irony is its always the worst drivers who have their kids unrestrained in the car, you know when you are keeping a wary eye on a car near you on the road as they have already done some strange manouvers and its then that you notice the kids bopping about, but in regard to your question its an issue that most Gardai take very seriously as they would see the aftermath of accidents so if you report it will be taken as a serious complaint, you may have to appear in court if it goes that far though?


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

I approached a woman before for driving around in front of me with a child dancing around inside the car, I pulled up alongside her and she put down her window, I attempted to tell her what she was doing was illegal and highly dangerous and before I could finish she put the electric window up and gave me the finger !!! I do hope she thought about it later and felt guilty, by me bringing it to her attention, maybe, just maybe, she sat back and thought about it, but sure some people and all that...never learn

OP - i for one would be very interested to hear the reaction of the gardai if you call them, just to see if it is actually dealt with seriously or not.


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## highly (19 Jun 2008)

I'm taking a late lunch today - but I will call them on my lunch and let you know how you get on. 

I wouldn't have a problem going to court at all - this is something I feel very strongly about. 

Thanks for making me not feel like an irrational busybody!


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## CrazyGirl (19 Jun 2008)

i have a seat belt for my dog. i know i know sounds very strange but shes a german shepherd big dog weighing 4 and 1/2 stone. people laugh when i tell them she has a seatbelt but i couldnt care less. safer for me and my dog


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## truthseeker (19 Jun 2008)

CrazyGirl said:


> i have a seat belt for my dog. i know i know sounds very strange but shes a german shepherd big dog weighing 4 and 1/2 stone. people laugh when i tell them she has a seatbelt but i couldnt care less. safer for me and my dog


 
Great idea - you dont want 4 and a half stone of unrestrained animal bouncing round the inside of a vehicle in the event of an accident!


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## Bubbly Scot (19 Jun 2008)

CrazyGirl said:


> i have a seat belt for my dog. i know i know sounds very strange but shes a german shepherd big dog weighing 4 and 1/2 stone. people laugh when i tell them she has a seatbelt but i couldnt care less. safer for me and my dog


 
We have them for our dogs, our collie was always in one, the newly adopted boxer I'm not sure about but he settled well with it. We get some strange looks but like you, I don't want over 20 kilo of dog hitting me in the back of the neck. Keeps them in the one place too, although my two just cuddle up for a snooze in the car.


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

Well highly, how did you get on with the Gardai ?


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## aircobra19 (19 Jun 2008)

highly said:


> ....To compound the fact, my fiancé, (who is a bit of a car expert) knows that this particular brand / model of car has a a passenger airbag and if anyone had even clipped the back of the car, the airbag would have gone up and the child would have been killed instantly....


 
I would seriously doubt that clipping a bumper would set it off. Also maybe its been disconnected as some cars can do that. I doubt that someone with no sense would do that though. Let us know what the Guards say.


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## FredBloggs (19 Jun 2008)

Highly, i hope you did contact the Gardai.  Even if they do nothing more than contact these moronic parents and tell them they've been spotted with a child in the front you could save that childs life.
Unfortunately these people are not alone in their absolutely mornic behaviour.   I only hope the Gardai throw the book at anyone they catch doing this


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## highly (19 Jun 2008)

Sorry - I had to work through lunch - isn't life great 

I'll give you an update tomorrow.


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## z105 (19 Jun 2008)

Ah poor highly !!!

Please do, be part of the solution and not the problem ! You have my backing !


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## Muffinb (19 Jun 2008)

I rang the guardi ages ago about the woman in front of me ( about 100 years old) driving wtih the white line right under the middleof her car and kangaroo jumping evertime she stopped.It freaked me out so I tookmher number plate and rang them.

They said they can find out who owns it and usually call to the house to give a verbal warning kinda thing.. He seemed very genuine when he told me so no reason to think he wouldnt have.

I suppose that If she had caused an accident later after me ringing and they dont do anything then there could be trouble for them??!!


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## FredBloggs (19 Jun 2008)

They should follow up cases like this but I wonder do they. Given the amount of times you hear people calling the gardai when a crime is being committed   and the Gardai failing to show you wonder would they bother calling on someone who they've a report in from another memeber of the public accussing them of dangerous or careless driving?


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## Brianne (20 Jun 2008)

Yes, they do take complaints seriously. A friend was frightened by the behaviour of a driver on a narrow country road. He kept tailgating her and eventually when she could , she pulled in to let him pass. Then she noticed that his driving was very erratic. This was in the middle of the afternoon. She  rang the local Gardai, told them of her concerns and left her name and phone no. Within the hour she received a call to thank her;they had pulled him over on the motorway and he was drunk. She felt she might have saved a life.


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## FredBloggs (20 Jun 2008)

Brianne said:


> Yes, they do take complaints seriously. A friend was frightened by the behaviour of a driver on a narrow country road. He kept tailgating her and eventually when she could , she pulled in to let him pass. Then she noticed that his driving was very erratic. This was in the middle of the afternoon. She rang the local Gardai, told them of her concerns and left her name and phone no. Within the hour she received a call to thank her;they had pulled him over on the motorway and he was drunk. She felt she might have saved a life.


 
Thats good to know - but I wonder would they bother calling to someones house days after an alleged offence? Hope they do just to ram home to this stupid woman the seriousnesss of what she did


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## rory22 (20 Jun 2008)

There is no accounting for the stupidity of some people, the people to OP spoke about are clearly moron's. The thing I'm unsure about is how everybody else approaches it, the right thing to do is report to the Gardi and move on. If people start getting out of the car's and trying to enforce the law themselves as one other poster mentioned there will be chaos. People don't like their peer's telling them what to do even if they are clearly correct, we live in a time where a motorcycle Garda can walk up to a suspect 'vehical' and get shot twice as happened recently so I personally would think twice about a confrontation and leave matters to the police and hope that works.


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## FredBloggs (20 Jun 2008)

rory22 said:


> There is no accounting for the stupidity of some people, the people to OP spoke about are clearly moron's. The thing I'm unsure about is how everybody else approaches it, the right thing to do is report to the Gardi and move on. If people start getting out of the car's and trying to enforce the law themselves as one other poster mentioned there will be chaos. People don't like their peer's telling them what to do even if they are clearly correct, we live in a time where a motorcycle Garda can walk up to a suspect 'vehical' and get shot twice as happened recently so I personally would think twice about a confrontation and leave matters to the police and hope that works.


 
You are right of course.   The op wouldn't have been thanked by these mindless people if the Op had approached them and as you alluded to they could have done anything.  You just don't know.  My only worry is that the Gardai won't take this seriously.   I hope they do and I hope the Op lets us know what happened


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## heretohelp (20 Jun 2008)

arent there any guards here who can tell us whether these matters are taken seriously or not ??


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## z105 (20 Jun 2008)

Sure maybe the OP can let us know how they got on last night when the contacted the Gardai ?


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## heretohelp (20 Jun 2008)

OP have u an update


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

still no update?


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## Guest120 (21 Jun 2008)

I'm sure the OP will update if and when they feel the need.

This isn't a soap opera. I suggest getting out more.


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## j26 (21 Jun 2008)

My daughter won't let us turn on the engine until EVERYONE (dolls included) is belted in.

She fell out of the stroller one day, and since then has a thing for being strapped in 


Okay the person is stupid, but bloody hell, there's a lot of vitriol on this thread.  Settle down a bit.  Do you all react like this when you learn someone's not paying tax on earnings?


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

Bluetonic said:


> I'm sure the OP will update if and when they feel the need.
> 
> This isn't a soap opera. I suggest getting out more.


isnt that an attack on me ??? how dare u!!!!!! i have plenty to be doing and how  dare u assume i have nothing to be doing


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

j26 said:


> My daughter won't let us turn on the engine until EVERYONE (dolls included) is belted in.
> 
> She fell out of the stroller one day, and since then has a thing for being strapped in
> 
> ...


 who mentioned taxes?


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

10. Please be civil - avoid causing offenceControversy and argument are welcome. But please keep your comments civil. Attack an opinion by all means, but please don't attack the person expressing the opinion. Use of profanities (even those that are self censored - like t**s for example) will result in the post being edited or deleted
blue tonic , read this


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

One thing you should know BLUETONIC, is that a topic like this is important to some people , as it is a must to know how complaints like these are taken by the gardai, i for one feel very strongly about things like this as a very close friend of mine , a mum of three was killled in a car accident this week and i think to carry a child on your lap is an absolutely ludicrious thing to do and i would like to know how the guards treated such a complaint.


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## MandaC (21 Jun 2008)

I saw the best one ever today, two little old ladies snailing along near Naas in their little Micra.  Driver had one dog(terrier type) sitting on her lap, but the second dog, a tiny little thing (think it was a pomeranian type) was sitting up on the dashboard opposite the passenger.  

They were going so slow that people started to do all types of manoevres to get away from them, accident waiting to happen.

Initially I got a shock and had to look twice, because of the height of the dashboard, the dogs head was at headrest level and when you looked initially coming up to them, from behind,  it looked like the dogs' head was on the womans shoulders!!!!

Some people just have no sense.  

heretohelp, sorry to hear about your friend, there are too many lost lives as a result of bad driving practices.


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## heretohelp (21 Jun 2008)

thanks  mandac , shocking it was still havent come to terms with it


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## FredBloggs (23 Jun 2008)

heretohelp said:


> One thing you should know BLUETONIC, is that a topic like this is important to some people , as it is a must to know how complaints like these are taken by the gardai, i for one feel very strongly about things like this as a very close friend of mine , a mum of three was killled in a car accident this week and i think to carry a child on your lap is an absolutely ludicrious thing to do and i would like to know how the guards treated such a complaint.


 
Any update on this?  Just like to know how Gardai treat incident like this


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## heretohelp (23 Jun 2008)

FredBloggs said:


> Any update on this? Just like to know how Gardai treat incident like this


 what do you mean?


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## FredBloggs (23 Jun 2008)

Do they take Op seriously or do they not.  I feel they should but am afraid they mightn't.  
(Apologies heretohelp I just noticed I'd quoted you in my post.  I meant to quote another post.  Like you I would like to know what happened and not for the reasons some posters insinuate.
I'm very sorry for your loss and again apologies again for including your post inadvertantly in mine.  )


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## heretohelp (23 Jun 2008)

no problem, i wpuld like to know an update too, thanks , still in shock its an awful loss to everyone here


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## highly (26 Jun 2008)

Sorry for the delay in replying but I was off on a long weekend. 

I rang the Garda last night and they asked me to come in and make a statement. They also asked me would I be prepared to go to court and I said I would be. I said that I didn't want to be "wasting" police time if nothing could/would be done, (or my time for that matter) but they assured me that it absolutely would be followed up and appreciated me making the call. 

I'll go to the station over the weekend and make a statement and as soon as i have further news, I'll be in touch.

Thanks


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## NicolaM (26 Jun 2008)

Well done Highly.
Bit of a pain to have to potentially go to court though.
A pity a 'quiet word' could not be had in the culprit's ear, to hopefully change their behaviour.
Nicola


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## Complainer (26 Jun 2008)

NicolaM said:


> Bit of a pain to have to potentially go to court though.
> A pity a 'quiet word' could not be had in the culprit's ear, to hopefully change their behaviour.


It's a pain all right, but having to make a statement at the station and the threat of a court appearance is much more likely to be effective in changing behaviour that a telling off.


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## michaelm (27 Jun 2008)

highly said:


> . . car has a a passenger airbag and if anyone had even clipped the back of the car, the airbag would have gone up and the child would have been killed instantly.


This is overly dramatic conjecture.





highly said:


> I rang the Garda last night and they asked me to come in and make a statement. They also asked me would I be prepared to go to court and I said I would be.


Yes the people were foolish, possibly oblivious to the dangers, but this shouldn't be a matter for the courts.  The local Gardai should knock up to their house and have a chat with them.


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## Round Tuit (27 Jun 2008)

I know from an immediate family member who had to deal with a deceased child on a professional level that the child died as a result of an accident when as a treat they had been let sit in the front, unrestrained, on someone's lap on the way to the local shop. The accident occurred at a very low speed (they rearended someone if memory serves) and whatever the toddler's head hit was fatal. It happened a long time ago now - possibly pre-airbag days. 

A quiet word may still be had if deemed effective by those on the ground BUT when you can say the complainant has both made a statement and would be willing to appear as a witness you have a lot more weight with some people who may not actually change their behaviour just because you've told them they are putting someone's life in danger but might change their behaviour if they thought they may be prosecuted.


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## FredBloggs (27 Jun 2008)

Highly,
I commend your actions. Not many people would be willing to follow this up and fewer still to go to court. It is interesting to learn of the Gardai's reaction. I doubt myself if it will go to court and I think the Gardai were only asking you to see (1) if you were serious about the complaint and (2) if it went that far would they have a witness because without you they've no case. 
I suspect they will just give the parents a warning.  Hopefully that will be enough to make them see sense.
FB


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## babaduck (27 Jun 2008)

I've rang Trafficwatch a few times regarding seriously lethal manoeuvers on the road by other drivers.  Twice, the driver has been taken to court & had a large fine & penalty points applied to their licence (they nearly killed us and the people in the car in front).

Normally, the gardai will call to the owner & have a chat initially after you've made your statement.  The Superintendent then makes a decision about prosecuting the offending driver - sometimes they do, other times they dont.  Either way, a visit from the local Gardai happens & in a lot of cases, is enough to knock some sense into the driver.


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## Joe1234 (27 Jun 2008)

michaelm said:


> Yes the people were foolish, possibly oblivious to the dangers, but this shouldn't be a matter for the courts.  The local Gardai should knock up to their house and have a chat with them.



What they did was not just foolish, it was illegal - both the illegal right turn and the unrestrained child.  It is the responsibility of the driver of the car to ensure that all passangers under 18 are properly restrained.


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## BlueSpud (30 Jun 2008)

Maybe this is natural selection at work!


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## kkman (30 Jun 2008)

michaelm said:


> This is overly dramatic conjecture.Yes the people were foolish, possibly oblivious to the dangers, but this shouldn't be a matter for the courts. The local Gardai should knock up to their house and have a chat with them.


not overly dramatic at all actually. most cars have a key to turn off the passenger airbag when carrying a childseat in the passnger seat. its widely known that airbags can kill a young child, thats why the car manufacturers supply a key to turn the airbag off.......


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## doll2824 (30 Jun 2008)

Yup i can understand why your blood would boil.I have 2 kids ages 8 and 3 and by god i strap them in well.Howevre in australia ,i read,there was a car with 3 adults and 1 child.the 3 adults had the seat belt on but the child didnt.

Guess what was using the 4th seat belt.A crate of beer. can you believe it.the child was sitting on the lap of one of the adults.police pulled the care over the drive was find 2000$$$$..


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