# 4th level education - good idea?



## Firefly (11 Mar 2009)

From breaking news...think it's a great idea and more of the same should position us well in the medium term

*New fourth level education proposal to create thousand of jobs*

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11/03/2009 - 15:39:42
The Taoiseach has unveiled a major new initiative between the country's top two universities, aimed at creating thousands of jobs over the next ten years.

Trinity College and UCD are teaming up to create what has been described as a new fourth level academy, similar in concept to the IFSC in Dublin.

Up to 1,000 graduates will be trained every year in specialised areas, in a bid to promote innovation and entrepreneurship.

It is estimated that this will result in the creation of around 300 new enterprises in this country over the next ten years.


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## jhegarty (11 Mar 2009)

I don't get it.


Usually people who spend that long in education end up in academic posts or very well paid private and public jobs. 

In my experience they are not the people taking the risk and starting their own businesses.


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## tara83 (11 Mar 2009)

jhergarty - I wouldn't say that they is nessecarily true. They may not start up business in trades or retails etc but a lot start up more small knowledge based companies.


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## Purple (11 Mar 2009)

tara83 said:


> jhergarty - I wouldn't say that they is nessecarily true. They may not start up business in trades or retails etc but a lot start up more small knowledge based companies.



What's needed are the skilled technical people, experienced business people for them to partner with and local VC money to get things rolling. The idea above is a very good one (though I'd like to know where they got the 300 new enterprises figure from), but it's only part of the picture.


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## Flax (11 Mar 2009)

What's needed is a better support system for entrepreneurs.

I have tried to get assistance (either financial or mentoring) from Enterprise Ireland for my IT company, but because I won't be making a few million from international trade within three years, they are not willing to help.


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## Purple (11 Mar 2009)

Have you tried your local enterprise board? EI will only help if it's export focused and will generate over €X within the first three years. Given that much of their funding comes from the EU and involves loads of paperwork I can understand that.


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## sunrock (12 Mar 2009)

We had a big emphasis in 3rd level education in the 80s.The idea was that it would attract multinationals here.O.K. so that worked for those who got work with the multinationals.
The problem now is we have to realise that education is a commodity and many countries have an available educated workforce that is cheaper or alot cheaper than irelands along other lower costs.
I don`t think there is much point in educating people until they are 30, unless there is a guaranteed job in the private sector for them.
We already have so many unemployed graduates.


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## Timbo (13 Mar 2009)

The fallacy so loved by politicians.

That they can manufacture employment.


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## Flax (13 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> Have you tried your local enterprise board? EI will only help if it's export focused and will generate over €X within the first three years. Given that much of their funding comes from the EU and involves loads of paperwork I can understand that.


 
Yeah I tried my local enterprise board. They had lots of money for me if I want to open a creche  but not for a tech company.


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## mainasia (30 Mar 2009)

Purple said:


> What's needed are the skilled technical people, experienced business people for them to partner with and local VC money to get things rolling. The idea above is a very good one (though I'd like to know where they got the 300 new enterprises figure from), but it's only part of the picture.


 
What's needed is hard work and willingness to take risks and business experience and sales channels. There is no point 'inventing' for the ideas of business something if you have no idea of will it work or is there a demand for it in the real world...that comes from people who are the coal face of business, this is how to create a virtuous circle. Plus, business success is only partially derived from 'invention' or 'knowledge' from research, much of it is about building up quality control, consistent service, good technical team, brand name, good management, cost control, hard work, diversified sales channels, scale, flexibility etc.

The reality is most PhD graduates are not risk takers...they are methodical workers. Certainly a % of them are the type to set up their own businesses but most are not, many just get the PhD to guarantee themselves a stable job in a competitive environment, the PhD does help with specialised skills of course. 

The other requirements are scale and industrial resource base. Enough companies making or providing key components of services together in the local area that they are nimble and competitive worldwide when new product demand comes along. It would also be good to sponsor the growth of a few large brand name companies such as Nokia in Finland, Ericsson, Samsung/Hyundai in Korea which have such a scale now that it is hard for competitors to come up and knock them off their perch. These large companies can feed orders and business to other SMEs in their home country. If it requires soft government loans so be it, the government spends much more on redundant social welfare payments with no economic benefit every year!


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## Purple (30 Mar 2009)

mainasia said:


> What's needed is hard work and willingness to take risks and business experience and sales channels. There is no point 'inventing' for the ideas of business something if you have no idea of will it work or is there a demand for it in the real world...that comes from people who are the coal face of business, this is how to create a virtuous circle. Plus, business success is only partially derived from 'invention' or 'knowledge' from research, much of it is about building up quality control, consistent service, good technical team, brand name, good management, cost control, hard work, diversified sales channels, scale, flexibility etc.
> 
> The reality is most PhD graduates are not risk takers...they are methodical workers. Certainly a % of them are the type to set up their own businesses but most are not, many just get the PhD to guarantee themselves a stable job in a competitive environment, the PhD does help with specialised skills of course.
> 
> The other requirements are scale and industrial resource base. Enough companies making or providing key components of services together in the local area that they are nimble and competitive worldwide when new product demand comes along. It would also be good to sponsor the growth of a few large brand name companies such as Nokia in Finland, Ericsson, Samsung/Hyundai in Korea which have such a scale now that it is hard for competitors to come up and knock them off their perch. These large companies can feed orders and business to other SMEs in their home country. If it requires soft government loans so be it, the government spends much more on redundant social welfare payments with no economic benefit every year!



I agree with all of that.
Ref the soft loans; take a look at how the Japanese government supported companies like Sony (pronounced “Sunny” BTW) in the 50’s and 60’s.


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