# Independent Financial Advice - where ?



## muesli (23 Oct 2006)

hi all,
Where can one go for truly independent financial advice? What type of fees would I be looking at ? What are the agencies/organisations that I should insist they belong to (for peace of mind) ? 
Thanks for any guidance anyone can give me. Sorry if its a silly question but I've never needed to get real financial advice before..
rgds
M.


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## CCOVICH (23 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

I recently recommended MyAdviser to a family friend.  The first consultation was free and they were impressed with the advice/chat.

I heard of MyAdviser on AAM.  I have never used them and have no connecttion with them.


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## ClubMan (23 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

For independent advice you need to look for an authorised advisor or a good multi agency intermediary who deals with as many financial institutions as possible and then maybe agree a fixed fee for the sort of service that you want. _IFSRA_ publish a list of authorised advisors/MAIs but to narrow it down you'll probably need specific recommendations. What sort of advice are you looking for?


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## MugsGame (23 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

From their website, MyAdviser are not offering advice to new customers until January 2007 -- too busy dealing with existing customers. From elsewhere on AAM it seems they will deal with new execution-only customers.


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## muesli (23 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

thanks a million for the replies so far..

My situation is that my ssia is maturing early next year. I also have a lump sum on deposit but its only (just) keeping up with inflation. 

So I would like independent investment advice - someone who can take a look at my overall financial position and advise me on a medium risk, medium term (5-10 yrs) investment strategy..


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## ClubMan (23 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

While not a replacement for professional advice if that's what you reckon you need, you could get some useful feedback here if you post details of your overall incomings, outgoings, debts, other investments/savings, short/medium/long term plans (personal and financial) etc.


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## Wilkes (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

The reality is that there is no such thing as independent advice except for those that can pay super high hourly fees to a tiny number of properly qualified wealth advisors that deal exclusively with the super rich. The rest of us can't or won't fork out the cash for it but we would like it nevertheless.

So you are faced with getting advice from the mass market where you will find different degrees of dependence either driven by relationships with commission paying institutions or with related companies with whom the advisor has special interests. There are plenty of firms that claim to give impartial advice for fees but, strip away the rhetoric and you will find conflicts of interest especially with some high profile firms. Some of the worst advice I've run across comes from those that most strongly claim to be the independent firms. 

The facts are that the genuine firms don't need the media or conference circuit to get business because they are already flat out dealing with clients whom they have won through refferal. I'm not surprised by Myadvisor being full but ask yourself how is it that some other firms are continuously in the public eye pitching for new clients years after establishment? Successful independent firms don't need to do so because of the stream of referals from satisfied clients.

In AAM we don't really have much visibility on these but they are out there, many of them good local accountancy firms with financial advisory arms and other low profile but highly effective Authorised Advisors. We tend here to spot the high profile firms that advertise on the radio or put themselves about in the media. I know that's not a satisfactory answer but its the truth as I see it.


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## ClubMan (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*



Wilkes said:


> The reality is that there is no such thing as independent advice except for those that can pay super high hourly fees to a tiny number of properly qualified wealth advisors that deal exclusively with the super rich. The rest of us can't or won't fork out the cash for it but we would like it nevertheless.


I don't think that this is necessarily true. An authorised advisor should not be locked into dealing with a subset of product providers and is obliged to act in the best interests of the client.


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## Wilkes (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

You are right, it shouldn't be true but it is and its not just opinion. IFSRA are finally waking up to the fact that the distinction between AA and Multi-Agency is  non-workable. Not only is this evident from how the Irish advisory market operates in practice BECAUSE there is consumer resistence to paying commercial rate fees, but it is now coming in from the EU as well where the new breed is a firm that can alter its terms from tied, to multi, to pure fee only as the consumer wishes to consume.

For years posters on AAM have been banging on about why consumers should get "independent" advice without really understanding how consumers actually behave or putting a price on getting "independent" advice. Most consumers are not willing to pay commercial rates that must include cost recovery and profit from top qualified advisors which means paying thousands of euro. Consider travel, meeting, fact-finds, compliance, report and follow through all of which are required by Regulation and it runs into one thousand to two thosand Euro easily. Now add hourly rates ranging €200 to €300 per hour for phone calls, updates etc dealing with service enquiries and quickly it is seen that the "independent" propsition is a fiction for most consumers.

Time and time again this essential economic equation and subsequent consumer behaviour is lost to deaf ears on this site. The facts are that most consumers haven't the first clue about how investment works -why do most leave their money in the worst paying deposit accounts. When ordinary consumers want to "invest" they really want to have lots of time with an advisor. People aren't robots, they are not like the stereo-typical AAM regular poster with their smart view of finance and what they want is time. But lots of time costs lots of money and just like this post, the poster wants a service he or she is unlikely to want to pay fees for, the result being the selection of a commission bearing product from someone who is not independent.

In the laboratory conditions of AAM unreal hypothesis can be promulgated unchallenged, like that advice SHOULD be independent, SHOULD be impartial and SHOULD be more widely available - after all its all so easy. But if this were true people wouldn't go mortgage brokers, just pick the cheapest tracker rate or fixed rate from public lists. They would not leave tens of billions with the main banks but switch to N.Rock. The problem with the consensus view on AAM that consumers are being overcharged consequently is at best false and, at worst elitest.


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## PMU (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

Wilkes, your proposition appears to be that a financial adviser will charge about two grand and will then charge hourly rates ranging €200 to €300 per hour for incidental items, and that this is the cost of independent financial advice.   Even a cursory glance would suggest that these fees are way out of line with the charges of real professionals.  I don’t pay those amounts to my doctor or dentist (professions that need a degree, associated professional qualifications and are supervised by professional associations), so why pay them to someone with a QFA done in his / her spare time?   I’ve never met an adviser who is anything other than a glorified salesman flogging funds or pensions (usually the latter).  Show me someone who deals in strategy based advice for your average Seán or Shiela who wishes to move beyond the QL, EBS, Smartfunds, NR stage of financial management.


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## CCOVICH (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

Please leave general discussion/debate for _The Great Financial Debates_ or _Letting Off Steam_.

Can anyone recommend a financial advisor for the OP?


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## PMU (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

You could checkout this thread:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=33868&highlight=independent+financial+advisers
and similar ones on AAM so do a search.

If you want a list of authorised advisers call IFSRA ([broken link removed]) and they'll e-mail one out to you


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## CCOVICH (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*



PMU said:


> If you want a list of authorised advisers call IFSRA ([broken link removed]) and they'll e-mail one out to you


 
It is included in the Key Posts.


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## muesli (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

Apologies for not searching AAM adaquately enough..

Bottom line is get to know the range of financial products available so I know myself the different options available and the risk involved..then I'll have a grounding in any discussion with a financial adviser, independent or otherwise..

Thanks again for your feedback..
m.


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## sherib (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

What about John (?) Lowe who is heard regularly on radio programs and wrote a book about finance - can't remember the title. I think he also writes in Sunday Independent magazine. His office is somewhere on the Lower Kilmacud Road - up from the Shopping Centre. I remember him saying that he wasn't *a tied agent* so presumably advice would be as unbiased as possible. I hear Eddie Hobbs has got very expensive! 

With regard to investments I haven't a clue myself and do find some of the AAM posts a little intimidating - feel a twit when most appear to understand the subject perfectly. Bonds, ETFs etc etc are double dutch to me. I do think it would be worthwhile to pay a professional for unbiased advice that could be trusted. Doesn't UCD run some kind of an evening course about investments? 

Someone on the radio today (either RTE or Newstalk) was plugging pensions and explained the percentage that different age groups could subscribe to avail of tax relief - 42% if on the top bracket and on retirement can take a lump sum of 25% tax free. As others have said, it all depends on your priorities and needs.


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## liteweight (24 Oct 2006)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

John Lowe...Money Doctor?


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## Spondulicks (27 Jan 2007)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*

Independent Financial Advice for free = Your local bar with a suitable health warning. The up market version here is the golf club but the hazards are similar.

Paid Advice : Check the yellow pages locally and follow up any candidates with IFSRA for licensing etc.

Accountants : can be very good but also uneven and personal recommendation is important.

Brokers : potential for bias but some will rise above the temptation of short term commission to build a long term relationship.

Solicitors : some specialise in this field and may have tax expertise but can be short on an investor perspective if all their time was in the profession.

If you have got sizeable sums then you need holistic financial advice covering risk, liquidity, returns, tax, estate management etc. The idea that you can get this from anybody who happens to be carrying a laptop, wearing a suit and in possession of coloured brochures is a joke. You might as well read your horoscope before investing. 

If you were building a house, you can go the quick route and buy the standard model from the builder with no particular adjustment for special needs or you can go to architect and deal through that firm with respect to the construction. Ditto with financial products. DIY is possible for small jobs but most of us get in experts if it is any way complicated. 

ps Does anyone know why IFSRA will not use the term broker instead of multi agency intermediary - plain English how are you!


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## ClubMan (27 Jan 2007)

*Re: Independent Financial Advise - where ?*



Spondulicks said:


> Paid Advice : Check the yellow pages locally and follow up any candidates with IFSRA for licensing etc.


You also need to distinguish between authorised advisors, multi-agency intermediaries and tied agents all of whom have the _IFSRA _imprimatur. Avoid tied agents unless you already know what you want and just want to buy it. Definitely avoid them if you are looking for independent advice.


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## Spondulicks (31 Jan 2007)

Good point Clubman.
Of course QFAs work in all three so even though you are dealing with a tied agent, the firm will empasise the transaction is conducted by an advisor and a qualified one at that!

That is like getting a carpenter but he just has one hammer,one nail, one saw, one screw etc in the toolbox but of course can install all your requirements.

The sad thing is that IFSRA, ( the source of independent financial information) stands over this.


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