# leaving cert mocks,results query



## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Hi, are there any Teachers on AAM that can help me with the following.

One of my children has just finished doing the leaving cert mocks.

So far she has had results back from four of the exams.

Three of the four are consistant with her normal results,all As.

She got her  results business went down to a C2!

Her teacher has always given her an A mark so can anyone tell me why this would happen.

All of the kids were very dissapointed with the results in this subject and all went down in their grades.

She is obviously upset and worried as this subject was in the bag so to speak.

Is it enough to say that it was marked harshly?
Thanks


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## Mel (26 Feb 2010)

I'm not a teacher, but the mocks are just that, a practice run for the real thing, and test not just your knowledge of the subject but provide a chance to prepare for all the other bits that go with exams, timing, stress management etc. 
If your daughter is getting on well in continuous assessments I personally wouldn't worry. There can be lots of reasons to perform poorly at mocks; anything from a hard/ untypical paper, to a shortfall in the quality of her answers, rather than a lack of knowledge on her part. 
She should use the opportunity to redo the paper in her own time at home, and submit for rechecking by her teacher. I remember my teachers allowing this in some subjects and it was extremely helpful. 
It may also be worth totting up the totals yourself, as errors can happen. 
Don't worry though - I got a low D grade in one subject that I had been doing well in all through - I still got an A in the LC. There's 3 months of revision time left.


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## amtc (26 Feb 2010)

Almost 20 years ago (God it is 20 years ago!) I got a D in Honours English and 6 As - and an A in English in the Matric. It can just be down to who you get on the day.


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## jhegarty (26 Feb 2010)

Wouldn't the corrected paper show where the marks were lost ?


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## missdaisy (26 Feb 2010)

I wouldn't worry about this too much. One of our subjects in mocks (10 years ago) was marked very hard, noone got an A. I think I got a C in it and was a bit shocked but still ended up getting an A in the actual Leaving Cert. Were all the students disappointed with this particular subject result? If so it's just a case of tough marking which is done more at mock stage than the actual exam.


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Hi and thanks for your replies.
Mel I hope I dont sound like one of those parents who think their kids can do no wrong..But honestly she didnt underperform on the day.
The reason I know this is that everyone of the students were downgraded on their marks.
The subject comes easily to her.
Her worry would have been,that  honors math would be the one to bring down her points,but this was so out of the blue for all the classes.

They are young and are now spending time worrying about the results and if they should compromise study time and allocate more time to this subject.Perhaps needlessly.

I understand that they cannot be rechecked,which is a pity as it is leading to a lot of Leaving cert students with dented confidence.

Their thinking is ,what if the marker was correct and altough they  have been getting excellent marks all along were in fact ,not at the race at all.

I just wonder if she should now start getting grinds,just in case.Even though its valuable time to her.


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Yes the paper does show where the marks were lost.
However on one of the questions she had to give a four statement answer,she did this and according to her teacher there was nothing wrong with it.Yet the marker gave her 4 out of a possible 20!!
I dont know if marking TOO harshly is a good idea,I agree that marking somewhat harshly so the students ups their game is a good idea,but this is pushing it too far.
What if the same marker is also doing their leaving cert results.
Its just very bad news at this delicate time.
Missdaisy; yes everyone of the students got very dissapointing results.
Can I ask if anyone knows if those employed to do the marking are calibrated?


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## Mel (26 Feb 2010)

Could she get the paper rechecked by another teacher? Someone who gives grinds maybe? I still think her real grade will be forthcoming in the actual exam, but it might help her confidence. And yes, I think I do recall some subjects being marked more severely.


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Good idea, I will look into having them rechecked by another teacher.Thanks.

Im just a bit bothered by the fact that if the mocks are marked harshly,why she still managed to get As in Irish,French,English,surely they have been downgraded as well.

You can probably guess that this is why we are worried...

Any "markers" out there that could say why this particular subject seemed to be the harshly marked one?


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## huskerdu (26 Feb 2010)

Its easy to forget when you are so focussed, but the mocks are just a practise. The result means NOTHING except what it can do to help you be prepared for the exam. 
I know that I am stating the obvious, but it needs to be stated. 

I personally think that results in the mocks are focussed on far too much. 

Teachers are paid to correct the mocks, as a nixer, by a company who organise it as a commercial enterprise. In my experience, there are no quality controls at all.
There is no official checking or calibration. 

I had a similar experience years ago. I went through the paper with the teacher and she effectively remarked it and gave me feedback.  I accepted this and moved on. 

Fretting at this stage is going to make the situation worse. 

Good luck to your daughter in the next few months.


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

I agree about the fretting !

But I along with my daughter had been told that the mocks were a valuable guide ,for several reasons,timing etc and as a guide to your results.

Bear in mind that there are many kids who will make a decision as to contuinue doing honors math based on the mock results,so Im not too sure if ignoring them is the right thing to do,perhaps you are right,but so many kids make decisions based on these results that I believe they shouldnt be taken lightly.

Take for example someone doing honors math,if they scraped a pass in the mocks the thinking is that they should not risk doing honors in the leaving cert as if they fail ,they are unable to go to college!

So its back to ,do we believe the results or not?

The point is that decisions are made based on the mock results.

Sorry I know I seem to be fretting but this kid has worked so hard and is worried,and as a parent Im trying to avoid any more stress for her at this stage.
I just dont know if I should tell her to ignore the results and just get on with it and not worry or if she barely makes a pass in honors math if she should drop to pass based on the mock results.( she doesnt have math results yet)
Thanks all.


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## Boyd (26 Feb 2010)

I realise its a shock but in the grand scheme of things, she did get 4As which shouldn't be forgotten either......a recheck might ease her fears. Also her teacher will know best as to how she is progressing so your first port of call should be to chat with him/her. There are 3 or 4 months to go before the leaving so there is plenty of time to correct this, nobody expects a student to ace everything in February!

*Off topic - honors math......honours maths!!


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## huskerdu (26 Feb 2010)

No decision should be made on the mocks results alone, for all the reasons you outline. Neither should it be ignored.  

It is part of the process of deciding if you are prepared for the exam, and able for the honours paper. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if she has no other way of guaging if she is ready for honours maths than the mocks results, then she does not have a good teacher. 
If she does have a good teacher, then she should be getting guidance on this issue, 

She does need to have that mocks paper rechecked by another teacher or her own teacher, to get another opinion on whether the paper was harshly marked or not. 

Maybe it was fairly marked and she made a mess of a question on the day, but is still an able honours student and can learn from the experience. 

It is so hard on kids and hard on parents trying to help, but my advice is dont panic
and take these results for what they are and help her make a decision based on all
the information,


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Username123; I absolutly agree with you re the Honor math/maths thingy.
I hate the use of the word "math",but apparently it is the correct term,and I felt I had to use it . horrible word .

Also re the point re aceing everything in Feb,she has been getting A1s all the time.So did expect a similar result.Naturally if she had dropped to a B,we would think that was normal enough,but to drop so significantly is worrying..Thanks for reply.

huskerdu; If she made a mess on the day,so then did every single one of the students as they all were marked way down.Which should be a consolation to us,in that its either a very hash marker that they all got or they have been living in a dream world with their A results!!
Also a lot of students struggle with honors maths and dedicate a huge amount of time to doing it,we were told that if you scape a pass in the mocks that you should drop it as its too much of a risk to take.
Im confusing myself at this stage.Thanks for you replies.


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## missdaisy (26 Feb 2010)

OP you need to talk to your daughter's class teacher. You say all the students were marked way down, I would have thought this indicated a harsh marker and I know some markers take this approach so students don't get too complacent before the actual exam. 

If you feel you can't talk to the class teacher (who seems to think the marking was wrong and your daughter should have gotten a higher mark) then maybe pay somebody who teaches maths grinds to look over the paper and get a second opinion.

Don't make too much of a deal about it with your daughter in the meantime.


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## thedaras (26 Feb 2010)

Yes ,they were all marked down,so it does seem to be the marker,rather than the students.
Her Teacher is fantastic so I have no worries on that end.
Will talk to her and get her opinion .
You are right,I will be boosting my daughters confidence and playing this down as it does appear to be a blip in the system.
Thanks again.


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## minkydog (26 Feb 2010)

I always tell my students that the mocks are marked to take away marks but the markers in the LC are marking to give you marks!!


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## Caveat (27 Feb 2010)

From memory (the 80s), the consensus was then that the mocks were marked down - to keep you on your toes.

Can't remember now what I got in the mocks vs the actual leaving but I do remember being a bit shocked by the results. Did a fair bit better in the actual leaving.


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## dolly (28 Feb 2010)

From my experience as a teacher most of the marking in the mocks is appalling. They are usually marked by unemployed teachers and sometimes by students who do not have experience. Full time teachers would not have time to mark mocks and the money paid is a lot less than is paid by the State Examinations Commission for the 'real' exam so therefore the markers do not put the time required into the marking. Surprised the teacher did not check over them and adjust the marks.


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## dmos87 (28 Feb 2010)

I did my leaving cert 5 years ago, some teachers I still meet regularly in the local area and get on well with. Its a well-known "scare" tactic to bump down the results in the pre's as it tends to drive the students harder. I failed Maths in my Pre's (I was never good with calculations) and got a B1 in the exam. All because I was petrified of failing!! Its not a bad thing. 

And besides, with all the other A's your child is getting, I would imagine good points are on the cards anyway!!


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## homebird (28 Feb 2010)

Definitely talk to the teacher. Correctors of mock exams get a pittance compared with correctors of state exams as far as I know. Correctors of mock exams are often tired teachers who do it after a day's work while they have the whole day long in July to devote to correcting state exams.


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## Yorrick (1 Mar 2010)

Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring. 
 Its only the 1st of March. Still three months to put in useful work. The important thing now is to put the Mocks behind you ( As my daughter said when she got a bad Mock result " Pavarotti doesn't do his best singing in the shower" )
Just keep the ship steady and work away, doing the past papers questions, revision etc.

Good luck


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