# Am I crazy to think I can ever get out of this mess?



## Hoper (9 Jul 2013)

Personal and income details
*Net Income self*:_ €31,000_
*Income history:* _I reluctantly closed a business in 2010 and didn't get work until last month._
*Net income partner/spouse:* _None_
_2 Kids
_*Amount of Mortgage Interest Supplement received*
_Nil_
*Lender*: _BoI_ 
*Amount outstanding: *_€230,000 _ 
*Value of home:* _€190,000_
*Interest rate:* _1.75% Tracker _
*Monthly repayment:* _€1400_
*Amount in arrears:*_ €1800
_
*Summary of discussions and agreements with the bank
*_This house was on interest only from 2006 to last month (hence the small arrears)
_
*Investment property
**Lender*: _BoI_
*Amount outstanding:* _€300,000 _
*Value of home:* _€60,000 - ish__ although likely cannot be sold. (see final paragraph)_
*Interest rate:* _1.75% Tracker_
*Monthly repayment* _€1500 approx._
*Amount in arrears* _€50,000_
*Monthly rent received:* _Zero_

_Without going into detail, renting this property never covered the mortgage. It is currently vacant and (as good as) un-rentable due to the state the last tenant left it in, and I cannot afford repairs.
_
*Other loans and creditors - 
*_Business debt. Banks and suppliers.  €180,000
Credit Card  €8,000
_
*Other savings and investments: *_Zero_

How important is retaining the family home to you?  

_I'm leaning towards "it doesn't really matter"
_

*Any other relevant information
*
*What is your preferred realistic outcome? *_*sigh* I'm lost here.

Both the family home and investment property have judgements against them which will only be removed if the debts to banks and suppliers are cleared. I've been told that if the investment property is somehow sold, the shortfall will be added to the family home. (Can this be done). This will make the mortgage unsustainable.
Total debt is currently over €700,000. Had my business not failed this was sustainable as my income was in excess of €85000 p.a. and I obviously wasn't carrying the business debt. All savings were used trying to save the business.
I fear I'm looking at bankruptcy, but I'm not sure I can handle another 3 years of living the way we have since 2010. For this reason I'm not sure one of the new personal insolvency plans will help. The lack of light at the end of the tunnel is having a detrimental effect on my health. I've been living with an enormous amount of stress since this all happened in 2008.

Input on options would be appreciated
_


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## gianni (9 Jul 2013)

Hoper, my main piece of advice at this stage is look after your health and your family. Financial problems can (and will) be worked through. Health issues are not so easily rectified. I'm sure other posters will be on later today with some specific advice but I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. Unfortunately there are thousands in the country in similar predicaments. Best wishes, g.


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## Dr.Debt (9 Jul 2013)

OP, I think you have two main options, either a Personal Insolvency Arrangement (PIA) under the new Insolvency Act OR Bankruptcy.

Before you can decide which one is best for you, I think you will need go through your finances in greater detail and evaluate the options with a Personal Insolvency Practitioner.

My initial feeling is that the PIA may be the front runner, given that you are now in employment and your Creditors will probably cooperate with a PIA to avoid bankruptcy. Bankruptcy would be the worst outcome for your Creditors


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## Gerry Canning (9 Jul 2013)

Dr Debts advice is good.

I pick up your DREAD of going Bankruptcy Route.
Do not be afraid of Bankruptcy . What it would mean for you and yours is a Closure Date , which you DO NOT have at present . Whilst in the process you will have reasonable living expenses and the Stress is taken from you.
As Dr Debt says ,I would think BOI will prefer to settle for a PIA.Again the STRESS is taken from you, again you will have reasonable living expenses.
When the Personal Insolvency Practitioners are announced , contact one of them.

For now I suggest phone Frost Debt Management @ 0749364000 Ryan, they will put you on the right track. 
Good luck and THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS.


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## Hoper (10 Jul 2013)

Thanks for the replies.
Dr. Debt, I agree with you, but at the moment I'm not sure I could handle a 6 year process. I feel I've been through it already.
While the business finally closed in 2010, it started to go pear-shaped in '07 with the slowdown in the building sector (many of our customers were affected by that which had a knock on effect). In late '08 the final nail was driven into it, but I was between a rock and a hard place and blew a fortune trying to keep it going in the hope the economy would turn.
We were "fortunate" enough to get Unemployment Assistance very easily (that's how dire our circumstances were), and could manage the interest only mortgage from that, but now, even with the job, nothing has changed really since the mortgage is now capital and interest, and we've never been able to scratch the surface of the other debts. When I look at the numbers it all seems so hopeless.
I've taken a look at the UK bankruptcy section on here. It's an avenue worth exploring, if only to get through it in a shorter time; although it would mean quitting the job, which isn't an option I like considering how hard it was to get one, and how secure this one actually is (as long as I perform).

One has to wonder how the stress of the whole thing affects the thought processes.

OK, thanks again.


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## so-crates (10 Jul 2013)

Hoper, I think you are looking at the past and seeing it as a mirror to the future. In other words you are seeing the experience you have gone through and presuming that will be the experience for the next 6 years. But the circumstances will be different. As salmon9077 has pointed out, there would be a defined end to a defined process. So far you have had to deal with a situation outside of your control, you have been reacting and innovating and it is exhausting when it feels like it is interminable and hopeless of resolution. By making some form of agreement and setting out a plan in front of you, which is what a PIA is, you will be regaining a sense of control and providing a magnitude to what you are facing and making the decision yourself instead of having the world foist the consequences on you. In other words taking this route is not a repeat of the last six years which have probably felt chaotic and overwhelming. I'd agree with the approach Dr. Debt and salmon9077 have outlined.


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## Hoper (20 Jul 2013)

Our kids don't know what a holiday is. We took a picnic to the park last week and the 6 year old asked us if this was our holidays. My wife started crying as they both looked at us expectantly for an answer. I eventually answered "Yes", and they were happy, but my wife had to throw in "but we'll have a better one next year". 

so-crates, that's great advice and much appreciated, but it doesn't sit well. We've developed an attitude of "we've been through this crap for several years, and it needs to end ASAP". However wrong that may be, I think what we've been really looking for is the quickest way out of the situation. As far as we're concerned, our credit rating is gone anyway, so the chances of loans in the future are slim to none. 

We've spoken to a guy who has applied or will apply to be a PIP, (he's a friend of a friend) and he also brought up the option of a UK bankruptcy, so that's kind of at the forefront of our thinking. 

But just as we open our minds to the possible solutions, I got a phone call last night from a friend wondering if I know anyone in Australia. He wants to expand his online business to there and needs someone on the ground at the helm. His exact words "I need someone like you with the same experience and qualities". So that got me thinking. The salary he's offering is a decent one and selling the car and the rest of our stuff would give us about 25K which would be a decent start in Aus. But going there would obviously not address the debt we have while a bankruptcy in the UK would most likely get it sorted within 18 months.

It's all very daunting. I'll look for the appropriate section on AAM to find out about walking away from the debt and effectively disappearing (even with 50k a year in Aussie dollars, I can't see us putting much of a dent in our debts here, but I haven't thought it through fully), but if anyone has an opinion or information it would be much appreciated. 

Thanks again for all your help.


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