# Value Investor in Dublin



## panitanfc (1 Sep 2010)

Hello, any body in this forum who are value investor...Warren Buffet approach of same kind of strategy. I'm looking for people to have a common interest and maybe form a investing club someday.


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## aristotle (1 Sep 2010)

Look up www.investrcentre.com which was started by Rory Gillen (previous co-founder of Merion Capital).

I have no affiliation to them but he has a good track record and approaches to value investing. He runs courses and some free workshops.


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## smiley (2 Sep 2010)

hi panitan..i am an avid value investor and great fan of ben graham and warren buffett.

I try my best to follow in their footsteps!


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## panitanfc (2 Sep 2010)

I attended his introduction seminar last tuesday.  Not sure yet with their approach and strategy..the 1 day seminar is a comprehensive of value investing.


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## panitanfc (2 Sep 2010)

smiley said:


> hi panitan..i am an avid value investor and great fan of ben graham and warren buffett.
> 
> I try my best to follow in their footsteps!


 
Great, I'm a a follower of Warren and other value investors. Read and watch loads of books and youtube videos about investing (warrren buffet).
How long have you been investing as a value investor?  I have tried some valuation scorecard and invested in US stocks. 
where are you based?


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## smiley (4 Sep 2010)

panitanfc said:


> Great, I'm a a follower of Warren and other value investors. Read and watch loads of books and youtube videos about investing (warrren buffet).
> How long have you been investing as a value investor?  I have tried some valuation scorecard and invested in US stocks.
> where are you based?



Hi Panitanfc..i am based in ireland..southeast...have been investing actively for about 5 years.

Ive made mistakes (who doesnt) but none big enough to cause huge damage.
Have a mix of mostly UK, Irish, French and US stocks. Spend a lot of time reading other value unvestor books, reports etc. Must have read at least 30 value investor related books at this stage.


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## ringledman (5 Sep 2010)

panitanfc said:


> Hello, any body in this forum who are value investor...Warren Buffet approach of same kind of strategy. I'm looking for people to have a common interest and maybe form a investing club someday.



Hi I love value over growth also.

Check out James Montier and Jeremy Grantham of GMO. Great value investors.

I am currently keen on large cap, cash generative, high yield, defensives here in the UK. 

The US market has some great value plays also but their market is a bit more expensive and yields are lower.

Large caps cheapest since 1951 - 

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/large-caps-cheapest-since-1951-4471.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/40d69234-b518-11df-9af8-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F40d69234-b518-11df-9af8-00144feabdc0.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.housepricecrash.co.uk%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D150525


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## ringledman (5 Sep 2010)

I love Buffett in this talk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfuXKpMFUjc&feature=related


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## panitanfc (5 Sep 2010)

ringledman,

Yes I have watched this...have you watch the documentary about him with Evan Davies of Dragon's Den? It's still in youtube and it's worth watching.


@ smiley: Probably you have read all the books I have read.

Here is my book list.

Rule #1 of Phil Town
Payback Time by Phil Town
The Warren Buffet Way
The Warren Buffet Interpretation of Financial Statements
The Naked Trader, Robbie Burns
Snow Ball
The Intelligent Investor
Security Analysis
Rich Dad guide to Investing
Beating the Street, Peter Lynch

and more related books about business and Stock Market.

I'm just so happy that I found people who are Value investor here in the Dublin Or Ireland.  Maybe we could meet up guys and have chat and exchange ideas, knowledge and learn from each how to be better investor.


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## ringledman (5 Sep 2010)

panitanfc said:


> ringledman,
> 
> Yes I have watched this...have you watch the documentary about him with Evan Davies of Dragon's Den? It's still in youtube and it's worth watching.
> 
> ...



Yes the Evan Davies one was good.

You should add 'Value Investing' by James Montier to that list. Contemporary and excellent.

I would love to meet up but have left Dublin. 

Please keep the Value threads going though!

Do any of you look for value in the small to mid cap range? I am only looking at the large caps at present, I guess this is where value is mostly found (more high yielding).

Also anyone know any good stock screeners for P/E, yield, P/Book etc?

A lot of screeners you have to question the quality of the data.


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## panitanfc (5 Sep 2010)

Ringleman, Buy this book of Phil Town and surely it will give how to screen stocks in seconds. He uses MSN Money, Yahoo Finance and Google Finance.  It saves you a lot of time.  I have tested and tried it.  
In this book he mentions about MOAT, MANAGEMENT AND MARGIN OF SAFETY....I started form there and Learned a Lot. You have devour this book in order to get the formula, once you know it...it easy.
Robbie Burns, Naked Trader is also good...when you reading Financial statements you can detect Red Flag immediately.

I'm Checking KO and BP


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## Complainer (5 Sep 2010)

panitanfc said:


> Ringleman, Buy this book of Phil Town and surely it will give how to screen stocks in seconds. He uses MSN Money, Yahoo Finance and Google Finance.  It saves you a lot of time.  I have tested and tried it.
> In this book he mentions about MOAT, MANAGEMENT AND MARGIN OF SAFETY....I started form there and Learned a Lot. You have devour this book in order to get the formula, once you know it...it easy.
> Robbie Burns, Naked Trader is also good...when you reading Financial statements you can detect Red Flag immediately.


Do you reckon you can read the charts and detect the red flags better (or even as well as) the full time professional fund managers also operating in the same markets?


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## smiley (5 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Do you reckon you can read the charts and detect the red flags better (or even as well as) the full time professional fund managers also operating in the same markets?



Ah, you are making a presumption that professional fund managers read balance sheets...most do not.

they wouldnt know what a balance sheet was if it came up and bit them on the ass!


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## smiley (5 Sep 2010)

panitanfc said:


> ringledman,
> 
> Yes I have watched this...have you watch the documentary about him with Evan Davies of Dragon's Den? It's still in youtube and it's worth watching.
> 
> ...



hi panit..ive read a good few of those...ive also read a number of books by....joel greenblatt, david dreman,anthony bolton,chris browne, p fisher, john templeton etc.


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## panitanfc (6 Sep 2010)

Smiley,
Phil Fisher's book was a good read.


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## EAP (9 Sep 2010)

There is much mention of Warren Buffett here for obvious reasons. However, if looking to a value investor that you would like to follow in terms of replicating their strategy, then I would place Buffett well down the list. His track record speaks for itself. However despite its often simplified presentation, his approach is extremely complex and in my opinion is beyond replication by the average investor. Read up about the successful value investor's and take as much from them as you can - (resources include tweedy browne, tilson, legg mason, GMO, oaktree, chou, royce, brandes to name but a few) 

Here's one piece of Buffett advice you can ignore:
He is disparaging about diversification. Fine for him, but way too many banana skins out there for the rest of us mortals. Ignore him.
Buying individual stocks in the hope of beating people that do it professionally and get paid is a fiction convenient only to stock brokers and spread betting companies.


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## ringledman (9 Sep 2010)

EAP said:


> Buying individual stocks in the hope of beating people that do it professionally and get paid is a fiction convenient only to stock brokers and spread betting companies.


 
I would say the majority of so called 'professionals' charge extortionate fees for average or poor performance. 

Just look at the funds out there who merely mirror each other and the market as they are far too scarred to miss one quater of the markets performace. 

The belief that professional money managers are any good is wrong, with the exception of the 1% who know what they are doing and take a long term view (Anthony Bolton, Neil Woodford, Jeremy Grantham, etc).

What Buffett says is - If you want diversification and haven't the time to manage and read up about investment then buy cheap index trackers. Don't go to the 99% who charge high fees for nothing.


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## RedMadra (9 Sep 2010)

This is a pretty interesting site for value investors, google: valueinvestorsclub
(i cant post the full link), it was set up by Joel Greenblatt. 

You need to pass an accreditation process to have full access to the site but with guest membership you can view ideas that are 45 days old. Mostly US equities but some of the posts provide a wealth of learning on how to analyse a comany.


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## EAP (9 Sep 2010)

Ringledman
This could form the basis of an extended separate thread, so I won't labour the point(s), but you are partially right 
Active managers have let themselves down and the evidence is irrefutable a this stage. However the vast majority don't even set out with the ability to add value (against the index). True and successful value manager's cannot function properly within a conventional fund management structure. There just isn't the appetite for the inevitable underperformance at most institutions. That's why the value premium persists. There are plenty of good active manager's out there, but they are cloaked in a structure that doesn't facilitate the ability to demonstrate 'skill'


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## ringledman (9 Sep 2010)

EAP said:


> Ringledman
> This could form the basis of an extended separate thread, so I won't labour the point(s), but you are partially right
> Active managers have let themselves down and the evidence is irrefutable a this stage. However the vast majority don't even set out with the ability to add value (against the index). True and successful value manager's cannot function properly within a conventional fund management structure. There just isn't the appetite for the inevitable underperformance at most institutions. That's why the value premium persists. There are plenty of good active manager's out there, but they are cloaked in a structure that doesn't facilitate the ability to demonstrate 'skill'


 
The question then is: 'how does a value investor buy funds if so many are obsessed with short term performance, stock churn, keeping up with the market regardless of its direction?'

In the UK I see 'closed end' funds as taking a more long term, value approach and holding stocks for years and not months as you get with unit funds. 

Any other way of value investing except for buying individual stocks?


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## EAP (9 Sep 2010)

What to buy if not individual stocks?...
Buy value tilted ETFs
Buy value oriented foreign funds - critical thing to look for is a fund that is unconstrained (i.e. not compelled to own equities all the time)
You are right though - not many of these funds around
Buy the constrained version here (i.e. long only value equity fund) and mix up portfolio with some absolute return, real assets, fixed income and cash.
By all means buy individual stocks, but only with 5% of your overall portfolio - and any good results chalk down to luck moreso than skill...at the end of the day, even a large part of the performance from the 'professionals' is luck.


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## panitanfc (10 Sep 2010)

EAP,

I think you stir this thread off course.  This thread if for those people who are active investors.  I myself want to learn how to be a sophisticated investor.  Fund managers doesn't care if they loss your money. 

Facts: Mutual fund managers get rich at your expense-stealing as much as 60% or more or your returns over your lifetime through fee

Facts The average individual will need more than 3 million to be financially independent in retirement in twenty years, and won't get there with mutual funds. Not even Close

Fact: 96% of fund managers can't equal the historical market average return of 8 percent per annum.  When the market goes down, they go down with it, no matter how "low-risk" their fund are supposed to be.

I have experienced this with our mutual fund in the recent crash and the best reply you can get from your sales man, so called financial advisor...sorry about your investment...you can buy more now because its cheap. From that loss We learned nothing,  just like that hard earned money chop into half.  So I'm learning now...and I have to learn it the hard way.


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## panitanfc (10 Sep 2010)

Any other way of value investing except for buying individual stocks?

Just as WB says: Buy a Business not a stock: Look at stocks as Business.
Value investor invest in business and businesses they want to own in part.


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## RedDevil (3 Apr 2012)

Value Investment

Given the importance of diversification and that Ireland is about 1% of the Global Market
What sort of a balanced portfolio should be aimed for from Ireland?
Shurely less than 10% in Ireland and
at least 10% in US
Are we living in the wrong place and 
then there are the tax issues

Hope this gets this thread going again


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## panitanfc (15 May 2012)

Look for companies that you know best and have meaning for you. The 10/10 rule. You hold this company for the next 10 years or drop it in the next 10 minutes. 

Go for Management with credibility and results oriented.

Buy companies with great Moat or Great competitive advantage

With Margin of Safety

And what is the story behind the company. Why do you want to own it? If you are the owner what will you do to enhance your company?


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## RULE no.1 (15 May 2012)

*Value Investing*

Hello Panitanfc,

Just newly registered here. This is the first time i've seen this page. I was looking for value investing seminar here in Dublin and I bump into this thread. I agree to you Panitanfc. I have read already most of the book you posted here about value investing. As of the moment I'm finishing the 6th edition of security analysis. I been looking for people here in dublin who do value investing like Warren Buffett ways too. I'm willing to join for any meet up group idea sharing. As of the moment I do stock investing in Philippine stock cause its cheaper.

Anyway, enough for that, I just want introduce myself as one of Value Investor in Buffett way living here in Dublin.


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## Jim2007 (15 May 2012)

RULE no.1 said:


> As of the moment I do stock investing in Philippine stock cause its cheaper.



Be careful not to confuse cheap with value....


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## RULE no.1 (15 May 2012)

i know.. thanks.


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## panitanfc (15 May 2012)

Welcome Rule No. 1

That is the main intention of this thread to have a common thread for VI's we hope that this group and grow and share their ideas and insights.

How long have you been investing in your country? Have you try investing here or in the US?


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## RULE no.1 (16 May 2012)

*Hi panitanfc,*

I didn't activate yet my broker account in the U.S., since I'm really trying hard to follow the rules of V.I., lots of patience when I can't see a wonderful business. I can't forget one of the W. Buffett quotes .." you profit when you buy, not when you sell". By the way, have you seen the book "23 winning investment habits of W.Buffett and G. Soros"? It helps me organize my psychological being in stock investing.

Thanks a Million!


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## panitanfc (16 May 2012)

[". By the way, have you seen the book "23 winning investment habits of W.Buffett and G. Soros"? It helps me organize my psychological being in stock investing.

No...Just to many books to read at the moment.


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