# barred from shop



## donabate1 (6 Jul 2010)

a friend was barred from a department store for shop lifting.  it was her first time in trouble with the law.  as aresult she received a caution from the gardai.  has the store the right to bar her from the store for life?


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## Towger (6 Jul 2010)

Yep, and if she steals from one chances are she steals from others. Do you want a friend like that, what would you do if something went missing from your house?


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## liaconn (6 Jul 2010)

Of course they have. She stole from them. Why on earth would they want her back in there again?


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## aristotle (6 Jul 2010)

I dont think there is anything in the law that means people have a legal right to enter a shop if the shop owner refused them. Why should there be, shop owners have a right to protect their premises.

Amazing attitude though, they get caught stealing and then suggest the shop owner is in the wrong.


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## NovaFlare77 (6 Jul 2010)

aristotle said:


> I dont think there is anything in the law that means people have a legal right to enter a shop if the shop owner refused them. Why should there be, shop owners have a right to protect their premises.


 
I was about to post pretty much the same thing. Most businesses have the right to refuse entry, unless they are discriminating contrary to the Equal Status Acts (e.g. gender, sexual orientation, family status, etc).

On the face of it, a lifetime ban does seem a bit harsh, but I don't know the circumstances of the situation (nor am I asking to know!). And given that a department store such as Arnotts, Clerys, Debenhams, etc doesn't sell anything that is vital to someone's life, I don't think that someone would have a right to entry to a department store.


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## Towger (6 Jul 2010)

aristotle said:


> Amazing attitude though, they get caught stealing and then suggest the shop owner is in the wrong.


 
Stealing is the way of life/culture for many people.


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## liaconn (6 Jul 2010)

To be honest, in a few years time most of the staff and security men will have moved on and no one will even remember her. It's not literally as if she can never enter that shop again for the rest of her life. But she would have some nerve to start strolling in there again for the next couple of years.


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## dmos87 (6 Jul 2010)

My youngest sister was caught shoplifting a year ago in a well-known store. As I was chaperone to all those younger than 18 on the day (I stupidly agreed to bring them with me), I was called in also. 

She was not only appointed a JLO (Junior Liaison Officer) for a few months after the incident but she is barred for life from this particular store. They showed her the picture they would be hanging in the security room and should they spot her shopping there again she will be escorted off the premises. 

Suffice to say she heavily learned her lesson, not just from the law but the month long grounding she received from my parents and no more contact with said "friends".


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## salaried (11 Jul 2010)

it is hardly the crime of the century,i am not condoning her actions but she made a mistake and at that age should be forgiven,in a few years time she will not look anything like the photograph in question anyway,and as novaflare77 said what is so vital in there that she would want anyway,she should put it behind her,she did,nt assault anyone it sounds like a childish prank,


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## Moral Ethos (11 Jul 2010)

If I owned a shop I can bar anyone I like from the shop without giving a reason. If I don't like the look of a person I can simply bar them and there is nothing they can do about it.


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## Leo (12 Jul 2010)

salaried said:


> ...she should put it behind her,she did,nt assault anyone it sounds like a childish prank,


 
You might think it's a childish prank, but to a shop owner who is operating in a tough economic climate, every item of stock stolen is more income lost.

How would you feel if someone stole your phone, wallet/purse, etc.? Would you laugh that off as a prank?


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## Complainer (12 Jul 2010)

donabate1 said:


> a friend was barred from a department store for shop lifting.  it was her first time in trouble with the law.  as aresult she received a caution from the gardai.  has the store the right to bar her from the store for life?


Yes, they do have the right to ban her. Time for her to move on.



Towger said:


> Do you want a friend like that, what would you do if something went missing from your house?


Do you get Garda clearance checks on all your friends? Are you sure there are no shoplifters, or tax evaders, or speeders in there?


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## aristotle (12 Jul 2010)

I dont think speeding (i.e. getting penalty points) is a criminal offence where as stealing and tax evasion are?


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## Moral Ethos (12 Jul 2010)

Speeding is only a criminal offence where the matter is dealt with by a court. Otherwise no.


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## Neg Covenant (12 Jul 2010)

NovaFlare77 said:


> *On the face of it, a lifetime ban does seem a bit harsh....*.


 
Harsh?   This lady is a thief.   Why the hell should a victim have to deal with her ever again?

I'd really have to question the OP's motivation in questioning whether the shop can do this.   Does the OP think the thief should be entitled to "justice" in the courts after being treated so shabbily by the people she stole from???   Talk about a scrounger's sense of entitlement!


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## NovaFlare77 (12 Jul 2010)

Neg Covenant said:


> Harsh? This lady is a thief. Why the hell should a victim have to deal with her ever again?
> 
> I'd really have to question the OP's motivation in questioning whether the shop can do this. Does the OP think the thief should be entitled to "justice" in the courts after being treated so shabbily by the people she stole from??? Talk about a scrounger's sense of entitlement!


 
The OP made no reference to the friend being "entitled" to anything. He/she may simply have been surprised that a business can or would do this and asked for clarification. Let us stick to the question asked and not read between the lines unless the OP gives us more information that doesn't add up.


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## Neg Covenant (12 Jul 2010)

I wonder can the shop ban people who they see consorting with the thief from their shop?   I think it would be fair.


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## Tessi (12 Jul 2010)

salaried said:


> it is hardly the crime of the century
> 
> What a ridiculous comment.  There is real people behind the department store business.  Real people like the girl who stole from them. Real people like her mother and father.  People who could be struggling to bring up their own children, put food on the table etc.  Just because someone owns a business doesn't mean they are well off.  Every time someone steals, somebody has to pay.  Its not normally the big things that bankrupts a business but all the smaller expenses like shoplifting.


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## VOR (13 Jul 2010)

The shop-owner is right and perfectly entitled to ban someone from their shop.
As somebody who did a lot of security work in my college days I am coming at this from a different angle. When I worked on Grafton street (not often, thank God!!!) you always wanted to keep known shoplifters outside the store. If they got in they would take up most of your time as you _had_ to watch them. The rest of the place could be walking out the door at the same time.
Also some of the real low-lifes would get in and bag an item. They would then disgard it as they left the shop. If you didn't spot that and stopped them on leaving you could find yourself in court very quickly for unlawful detention. Usually ended in a 5 figure pay off by the shop. Thankfully, it rarely happened as security guards on the stores do everything they can to stop the criminals getting passed the door. And that's even when they are wearing wigs, glasses and other disguises.


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## redbhoy (14 Jul 2010)

aristotle said:


> I dont think speeding (i.e. getting penalty points) is a criminal offence where as stealing and tax evasion are?


 
Was a crime committed is someone evades tax?? Who is the victim?


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## Leo (14 Jul 2010)

redbhoy said:


> Was a crime committed is someone evades tax?? Who is the victim?


 
Yes, tax evasion is a crime. All other tax payers and those who benefit from services funded by tax take are the victims.


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## redbhoy (14 Jul 2010)

Leo said:


> Yes, tax evasion is a crime. All other tax payers and those who benefit from services funded by tax take are the victims.


 
Is there a law against not paying tax?


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## Moral Ethos (14 Jul 2010)

There is.


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## salaried (15 Jul 2010)

leo i read a few posts together and got them a bit mixed up,without referring to the original post i interpreted it wrongly,i did read it as a childish prank but was mistaken,stealing is stealing whatever way you look at it,salaried.


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## csirl (15 Jul 2010)

redbhoy said:


> Is there a law against not paying tax?


 
Under the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 tax evasion is a criminal offence.
Essentially is Fraud.


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