# Electricity to Garden Shed



## Thirsty (6 May 2019)

Can any one tell me if its possible to install a permanent power line to the garden shed from the house? 

And what might that entail? Do I have to have a trench dug or can it go along the wall?

Is the likely cost mainly a function of distance?


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## john luc (6 May 2019)

Kinda yes to all yoù ask. Underground or over has a lot to do with where your shed is positioned and what's in the way.


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## john luc (6 May 2019)

You can use armoured cable for safety from any risk of damage


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## Romulan (6 May 2019)

Got an armoured cable run to the little shed many years ago in order to have a couple of sockets in it.

Never any issues, mind you, hardly ever use the sockets.


Still, if I ever sell


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## Thirsty (7 May 2019)

Thanks folks.

To answer questions - shed is at the end of the garden, nothing 'in the way' except grass.

Is there a way to estimate 'cost per metre'?

Possibly silly question, how does the cable connect to the house supply?


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## lledlledlled (7 May 2019)

Thirsty said:


> Thanks folks.
> 
> To answer questions - shed is at the end of the garden, nothing 'in the way' except grass.
> 
> ...



Cable will take electrical supply from your fuse board. Your electrician will probably need to install a circuit breaker for this purpose. 

How many electrical points (lights, switches, sockets, etc.) do you want installed in your shed?

Do you want multiple appliances (washing machine, dryer, lawn mower, power tools etc) running at the same time? If so, you may need a small fuse board in the shed. 

If you don't want more than a light and a socket for occasional use, you might have an adequately sized spare breaker in your existing fuse board. Your electrician will confirm what's spare. 

Depending on your garden, electrician will likely clip NYMJ (grey colour, non-armoured) or SWA (black, armoured) along your wall. SWA has stronger mechanical protection which will help prevent a stray shovel going through it. But it will be physically larger, more expensive, and arguably uglier than NYMJ. 

I think burying the cable will be cost prohibitive.


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## Leo (8 May 2019)

lledlledlled said:


> Depending on your garden, electrician will likely clip NYMJ...



If using NYMJ, ensure it is protected from direct sunlight as that will degrade the sheath.


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## Easeler (8 May 2019)

Interested in this myself as I use an extension lead to an outside socket and DIY the wiring  in the shed myself perfectly leget when your using an extension leed. but i would like to do permanent job, could you keep us posted of costs of materials and labour I recon you wouldn't have much change out of a 1000 euros done right.


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## Leper (8 May 2019)

You can buy good battery operated lights which you can switch on and off as you please. No need to rewire or attack the fuse board. However, if you need electric sockets you will need to run a cable. But, with cordless tools you most likely don't need sockets. Save yourself a few bob and buy the battery operated lights.


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## Zenith63 (8 May 2019)

I did some external wiring around my garden.  FWIW costs were about €20 for an external socket, then 2.5sqmm armoured (SWA) cable is about €1.50 per meter and a 20A fuse for your fuseboard will be somewhere around €25.

I'd imagine your could get an electrician to make the connections for something like €100-150 if you had all the cable in yourself.  You would need to find a route for the cable from your garden shed right back to the fuseboard, which is generally near your front door.  If you get the electrician to do this cable routing it will obviously add a fair bit to the cost as it will be time-consuming.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 May 2019)

+ 1 for SWA cable. As it's armoured, you can just raise the sod and lay it down.


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## Thirsty (8 May 2019)

Thanks folks, very helpful.

So if fuse board is by the front door, how will cable come into house from the back to connect to fuse board?

Are we looking at drilling holes in the house wall? Cutting out channel in plaster board? Or have I got the wrong picture in my head?


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## SparkRite (8 May 2019)

PaddyBloggit said:


> + 1 for SWA cable. As it's armoured, you can just raise the sod and lay it down.



ABSOLUTELY NOT !!

Apologies for caps, but this is very dangerous and is not allowed.

All electrical cables must be buried at a sufficient depth (normally taken as not less than 600 mm).
All buried cables should be marked by cable covers or marker tape.
Non-armoured buried cables should be installed in a conduit or suitable duct to provide protection against impact. Armoured cables and cables having an earthed metal sheath suitable for use as a protective conductor may be buried directly in the ground without further protection, but certainly NEVER just below the sod.

@Thirsty 
If you have a garden wall with a capping stone leading to the shed then I would opt for a surface feed, clipped directly under that cap, using NYMJ cable.
I would advise fitting a small sub DB in the shed and using no less than 4sqmm cable to allow for some expansion.
If sunlight is going to be a problem, never really is in practice in Ireland, but nonetheless black thermoplastic (PVC) cable sheaths containing carbon black which resists the effects of sunlight can be utilised.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 May 2019)

SparkRite said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT !!



Guess I've done it wrong so .... SWA under the sod here next to the fence, under palm, under footpath all the way from the garage to electric gates.

It's there so long now that I'll just leave it now at this stage.


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## PaddyBloggit (8 May 2019)

Then again, I think (not sure though) .... that I put the SWA cable into water pipe before I laid it down.


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## Leper (9 May 2019)

I think the overriding message on this thread is:- If you know nothing about the dangers of electricity and fuse-boards and wires and ducting, leave the job to a qualified electrician.​


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## Thirsty (9 May 2019)

Actually it's very useful to have this info before bringing in a contractor.

Still trying to get my head around how the cable connects into the house.

Can anyone help with that?


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## RedOnion (9 May 2019)

To run an independent circuit, if you've a standard 2 story house, they'll take a new cable from your fuse board, and run it up into the ceiling. They'll lift floor boards in the room above, and take the cable across to partition wall between bedrooms, and route the cable up into the attic (you'll already have lots of cables following this route), then across attic to the back of house, outside, and down the back wall.
Run cable to shed, and terminate at an RCD, and wire your shed from there.

As suggested above, 4mm square cable will give you flexibility to do anything you want in future. The sockets in your house are on 2.5mm cable.

If you don't have a need for anything heavy duty in shed, what some people would do us run a spur from the kitchen socket circuit our to the shed. Much easier cause you just drill a hole in the wall, but you're limited to about the equivalent of an extension lead - so no welding!. I'm not an electrician obviously, so I don't know if this approach meets current standards.


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## Leo (9 May 2019)

Good points from @SparkRite above.

Rules in this area have changed over recent years. If you plan to run cables yourself, best run your plan by the electrician who will do the connection to the consumer unit and issue the required cert on completion. If you run the cable and have it hidden where they cannot asses, they may be unable to sign-off.

Depending on the length of the cable, they may suggest going bigger than 4mm.


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## Leper (9 May 2019)

The first rule of electricity is to run the cable from the new socket back to the fuse board. Not the other way round. You will use an extra metre or two of cable doing this. Don't even think of running the cable from the fuse board to the new socket.


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## Zenith63 (9 May 2019)

Leper said:


> The first rule of electricity is to run the cable from the new socket back to the fuse board. Not the other way round. You will use an extra metre or two of cable doing this. Don't even think of running the cable from the fuse board to the new socket.


Curious why this is the case?


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## Leper (9 May 2019)

Zenith63 said:


> Curious why this is the case?



Good question Zenith63. However, it is a safety procedure to ensure that the electrician and/or his mate does not get electrocuted and remains in control of the work. An electrician worth his/her salt would never trust anybody to leave the on/off master switch at the fuse board unengaged. 

If you start your wiring from the fuse board you are putting your life in danger. All it takes is for somebody to switch the board on and the possibility increases of an accident. I know of a real case where an electrician was killed this way by the lady of the house anxious to put on the dinner who turned on the fuse board. Incidentally, he was wiring an outside shed.


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## Zenith63 (9 May 2019)

Leper said:


> Good question Zenith63. However, it is a safety procedure to ensure that the electrician and/or his mate does not get electrocuted and remains in control of the work. An electrician worth his/her salt would never trust anybody to leave the on/off master switch at the fuse board unengaged.
> 
> If you start your wiring from the fuse board you are putting your life in danger. All it takes is for somebody to switch the board on and the possibility increases of an accident. I know of a real case where an electrician was killed this way by the lady of the house anxious to put on the dinner who turned on the fuse board. Incidentally, he was wiring an outside shed.


That makes perfect sense and not that intuitive unless you do a lot of this stuff I'd imagine!  Was more curious about the extra meters of cable you mentioned though?


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## Jazz01 (9 May 2019)

Zenith63 said:


> about the extra meters of cable



is when you arrive back to the fuse board and you realise that someone has turned on the master switch again - you use the extra bit to slap the person...


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## SparkRite (9 May 2019)

You can start at whichever end you like (Oeeer Matron !) but your final connection should always be at the board.

But in this scenario it would make sense to start at the shed so as not to have to pull/fish the full length of cable through the house.


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## Leper (9 May 2019)

I should have mentioned that I worked as an electrician's mate when I returned from the UK all those years ago. The guy I worked for was excellent, thorough, knew what he was doing and most important took no chances whatsoever. He always said that you had only to be unlucky once to cause a fatal accident. 

In my time I have seen some shoddy work by electricians and their mates and I've seen some chances being taken just to save a metre of cable. The current (no pun intended) regulations regarding electrical work didn't happen by accident; it was because of accidents their act had to be upped.

But, to answer Zenith63's question:- You always left some slack  for connection to the fuse board. If you let too little you had to run the wiring again. Electric wire connections were never to cause the wire to be taut, you always let a little slack. SparkRite is not right you should always start at the end and work towards the fuse board. Anything else is not safe. Always remember accidents happen by accident.


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## lledlledlled (9 May 2019)

OP, fair play to you for trying to get an understanding of what is involved prior to getting quotations.

Regarding any electrical work itself however (apart from maybe chasing walls), it is seldom if ever a DIY job.
Leave it to a fully qualified electrician who is registered with Safe Electric (formally RECI) and insist that a Safe Electric cert is included in the quotation and covers all work completed.


While you have the electrician in the house, take the opportunity to get any other bits done. Modern living usually means traditional houses don't have near enough sockets for example.

Make sure you ask the electrician's opinion on the condition of your fuse board. This is a common source of fire, which I have witnessed personally.


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## SparkRite (9 May 2019)

Leper said:


> I should have mentioned that *I worked as an electrician's mate* when I returned from the UK all those years ago.



I also did, then as an electrician, then an electrical tecnician, then an electrical engineer .



Leper said:


> *SparkRite is not right* you should always start at the end and work towards the fuse board. Anything else is not safe. Always remember accidents happen by accident.



Sparkrite is right.
There is no hard and fast rule on this as you are implying. Safety is not compromised because as I said the final connection is only done when all circuits are teminated or made safe. Quite often the job itself will dictate which direction is preferable or sometimes possible.
Many, many times I have run supplies to a room or section of a building where there is no equipment or even a layout so in essence there is no 'end', just an empty area. Experience has also taught me to often run from board to end area as often the client will change the wanted layout, a little more difficult to do if run the opposite direction, notwitstanding the waiting time, better to get on with it and run the supply and hope when you have it local then the layout is finalised.

Also try running a 240sq 3 phase cable your way when the mains is on the first floor and you are feeding a basement. Not easy to bend or manoeuvre that while trying to pull it UP.

BTW, there is no 'increase' in cable used whether you start at DB or load.


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## Leper (9 May 2019)

Hi SparkRite. We have to agree to differ. I remain unconvinced. An electrician I knew is dead simply because he wired from the fuse board and the uncaring attitude of the customer. OK! He should not have connected to the fuse board, but he did. He was wrong to assume he was safe.

The electrician I worked for is still an electrician. He is safe and treated everybody safely.


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## SparkRite (9 May 2019)

Leper said:


> OK! _He should not have connected to the fuse board,_ but he did. He was wrong to assume he was safe.



Exactly, as I have been saying all along.


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## lledlledlled (9 May 2019)

Nothing whatsoever wrong with starting from the fuse board if that's what suits the installation of the cable best. 

However, terminating the cable into terminals on the fuse board before pulling the other end of the cable to it's destination is nuts. I'm in the industry a good many years and have never seen that done. 
The customer in the above tragic story is not the Subject Matter Expert. It shouldn't have been so easy for her to switch the circuit on. 

At the risk of derailing the OPs thread, I think the message is clear...
Electricity is dangerous. Do not attempt to perform any element of this project yourself.


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## Thirsty (10 May 2019)

Thanks again folks, all very helpful.

Again not planning to do this myself but want to know background info before talking to contractor.


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## Leo (10 May 2019)

lledlledlled said:


> Nothing whatsoever wrong with starting from the fuse board if that's what suits the installation of the cable best.



Exactly, there's a big difference between pulling and connecting cables.


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## roker (28 May 2019)

Thirsty said:


> Thanks folks, very helpful.
> 
> So if fuse board is by the front door, how will cable come into house from the back to connect to fuse board?
> 
> Are we looking at drilling holes in the house wall? Cutting out channel in plaster board? Or have I got the wrong picture in my head?


Fuse board is usually in the utility room


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## Thirsty (28 May 2019)

What an odd comment! 

I'm pretty sure I know where my fuse board is!


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## RedOnion (28 May 2019)

Thirsty said:


> I'm pretty sure I know where my fuse board is!


It's in your utility room, right?....


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## Thirsty (28 May 2019)

According to roker at any rate...


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## SparkRite (28 May 2019)

I can get it moved for you, if you'd like.


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## RedOnion (28 May 2019)

SparkRite said:


> I can get it moved for you, if you'd like.


But can you build a utility room first if he doesn't already have one?


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## roker (28 May 2019)

Someone said it was by the front door


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## RedOnion (28 May 2019)

roker said:


> Someone said it was by the front door


Yes, the guy that owns the house!


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## Thirsty (25 Jul 2020)

Meant to come back to this ages ago & for some reason it popped back into my head today.

So given what I wanted to use in shed, electrician didn't see any need to go back to fuse board.  Brought cable into kitchen & connected there.

Entire job took bit less than a days work. Total cost of materials was around €250. 

All in all, pretty simple; but keep in mind that I didn't have any serious heavy duty machinery in shed.


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## Grizzly (26 Jul 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> Cable will take electrical supply from your fuse board.



I would swear that the socket in my garage had the electricity feed taken from the nearest socket in my house. That's what I was told by the builder.  Is this possible?


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## Zenith63 (26 Jul 2020)

Grizzly said:


> I would swear that the socket in my garage had the electricity feed taken from the nearest socket in my house. That's what I was told by the builder.  Is this possible?


Definitely and very common.

If you have the option though it’s better to go back to the board. Means that something tripping the fuse or RCD in the shed (common with wet garden equipment or damp shed) doesn’t knock off the kitchen (and possibly freezer!), you have a dedicated supply to the shed so you don’t have to worry that plugging in a welder at the same time as the kettle/toaster will be too much, you might run a heavier cable to the shed to allow for bigger equipment if you’re into say wood or metal work, you don’t know how many times the socket you loop off has been popped already etc etc.


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## lledlledlled (1 Aug 2020)

It might be worth bearing in mind that the new Irish regs require earth leakage protection on all lighting circuits, not just sockets.


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## SparkRite (1 Aug 2020)

lledlledlled said:


> It might be worth bearing in mind that the new Irish regs require earth leakage protection on all lighting circuits, not just sockets.


Good call, has been for over a year now, if I remember correctly.

@Thirsty If you're running lighting and socket/s off that spur feed, you really should have a sub DB (small MCB board) in the shed, splitting the circuits.


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## Thirsty (1 Aug 2020)

Installation was done by fully qualified electrician; not a DIY job.


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## roker (1 Aug 2020)

Zenith63 said:


> I did some external wiring around my garden.  FWIW costs were about €20 for an external socket, then 2.5sqmm armoured (SWA) cable is about €1.50 per meter and a 20A fuse for your fuseboard will be somewhere around €25.
> 
> I'd imagine your could get an electrician to make the connections for something like €100-150 if you had all the cable in yourself.  You would need to find a route for the cable from your garden shed right back to the fuseboard, which is generally near your front door.  If you get the electrician to do this cable routing it will obviously add a fair bit to the cost as it will be time-consuming.


Fuse board us generally  in a utility room or kitchen at the back of the house


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## roker (1 Aug 2020)

It would be a good idea to have a small distribution box in the shed with ECB to MCBs to lights and sockets


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