# Social Welfare Cohabiting Rules



## Inserteneo (6 Dec 2018)

Hi All,

I am trying to find information regarding the social welfare rules on cohabiting to put my girlfriends mind at ease and I would appreciate any information you have available, I have scourged the social welfare website but I cannot find any definitive answers.

I'm in my 30's with a well paid job, I have 2 kids from a past unmarried relationship where I now have the kids most weekends and pay maintenance etc through the bank. I moved back in with my parents almost 2 years ago in order to save for a mortgage.

My girlfriend of almost 2 years is also in her 30's and has 2 kids from a past unmarried relationship. She works 3 days a week but wouldn't command the same kind of salary I do and so claims a reduced OPF/WFP to top up her income. She is also in receipt of HAP.

Her fears are that she may lose her entitlements due to our current living arrangements. Usually I would stay over in her house at least 1 night a week when she has her kids and she would stay over in mine one night over the weekend when I have my kids. Every 4-5 weeks we usually have a weekend together where neither of us have the kids, on those weekends its a mix of staying in her house, my parents house or going away for the weekend.

This time next year I will be ready to buy a 3 bedroom house. We have discussed that if all goes well between us that we will over the course of about a year have her and the kids stay over more and more with the aim to moving in when the time is right. Again on of the worries is that she may lose her entitlements and the process sped up.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any help.


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## Feemar5 (23 Dec 2018)

Have you read the cohabitation legislation on welfare.ie.  There appears to be a lot of information for various living arrangements.    When you buy the house your situation would appear to be more permanent so there may be changes in her entitlements - according to  welfare .ie One parent family allowance is not payable to anyone who is in a relationship and living with another person.   She would not receive the HAP payment either as you would not be her landlord!


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## elcato (24 Dec 2018)

The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem short term. I presume that is what you are worried about.


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## noproblem (24 Dec 2018)

Living together and supporting each other while getting payments from the working taxpayer when not entitled is cheating the system. In other words, it's getting money from others by fraudulent means. That's my take on it, but only my opinion. I've no doubt others in a similar state of affairs won't be long in  letting me know a thing or two.


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## Gordon Gekko (24 Dec 2018)

elcato said:


> The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem short term. I presume that is what you are worried about.



elcato, I’m surprised that you would post along those lines.

If scrounging is taking place, it must be exposed and its agents must be hammered.


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## RETIRED2017 (24 Dec 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> elcato, I’m surprised that you would post along those lines.which
> 
> If scrounging is taking place, it must be exposed and its agents must be hammered.


I think along the same lines but I see things posted all the time which could and is used to cheat the system all the time ,I am now beginning to question why people only object to certain types of beating the system and do not have a problem giving advice to beat the system  on other cases,

Just to be clear I am not referring to you  I  hold the same view  as you, But we see inside/Knowledge/ information giving all the time which can be used to beat the system so often  I no longer see any point in objecting just because it is Social Welfare we are posting about,


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## cremeegg (24 Dec 2018)

The OP had some perfectly reasonable questions about social welfare rules.

Someone says 


elcato said:


> The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem



then we get 


noproblem said:


> cheating the system... and... it's getting money from others by fraudulent means.



and now 


Gordon Gekko said:


> If scrounging is taking place, it must be exposed and its agents must be hammered.



Is that a jack hammer or a lump hammer Gordon.

The guy just asked a question. I got the impression his girlfriend wanted to be sure to stay on the right side of the regulations 


Inserteneo said:


> I am trying to find information regarding the social welfare rules on cohabiting to put my girlfriends mind at ease and I would appreciate any information you have available



And suddenly we have gone all Roscommon on him.

OP if I knew the answers to your questions I would share.


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## RETIRED2017 (24 Dec 2018)

cremeegg said:


> The OP had some perfectly reasonable questions about social welfare rules.
> 
> Someone says
> 
> ...


Agree on the post above I put it very badly lots of advice given on how to get around regulations and how to use  loopholes and stay on the right side of regulations,
I suspect seldom a day passes  without someone  posting something  and the advice given can help people to get round some regulation or help them to get something the would not other wise get without the advice received,


When you add in the cottage Industry of paid advisors set up to give the kind of advice  elcato gave for a free above ,you can also add in the industry set up around finding tax loopholes in our tax system for people who have money to exploit and get round our tax system in way Government did not intend,


You can also add in the lobby industry who loddy for loopholes to be left in the system ,or put in the system to give them advantage over other taxpayers,

I have left out lots of other examples or I would be hear all day,


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## elcato (24 Dec 2018)

Oh dear. The tut tut police are out in force. The OP was purely concerned about an arrangement that in my opinion was perfectly legit regarding what should he do in a transitional period - nothing illegal but hey we're oirish and mordle hard ground so shoot him ..


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## Gordon Gekko (24 Dec 2018)

elcato said:


> Oh dear. The tut tut police are out in force. The OP was purely concerned about an arrangement that in my opinion was perfectly legit regarding what should he do in a transitional period - nothing illegal but hey we're oirish and mordle hard ground so shoot him ..



No elcato, the OP was fine but then you said “The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem short term”; it’s that attitude that gives rise to the €500m of scamming that has been exposed to date by Leo’s trawl.


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## elcato (24 Dec 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> No elcato, the OP was fine but then you said “The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem short term”; it’s that attitude that gives rise to the €500m of scamming that has been exposed to date by Leo’s trawl.


As usual you quote the saying not the context. I'll let others decide rather than argue with a


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## Gordon Gekko (25 Dec 2018)

elcato said:


> As usual you quote the saying not the context. I'll let others decide rather than argue with a



Pathetic


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## Inserteneo (26 Dec 2018)

Feemar5 said:


> Have you read the cohabitation legislation on welfare.ie.  There appears to be a lot of information for various living arrangements.    When you buy the house your situation would appear to be more permanent so there may be changes in her entitlements - according to  welfare .ie One parent family allowance is not payable to anyone who is in a relationship and living with another person.   She would not receive the HAP payment either as you would not be her landlord!



http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Cohabitation.aspx <- This?

I read it and I still think it can be open to interpretation and portrayed as one way or the other. There are certain boxes we tick and others we don't. For instance if she was sick I would gladly go over and look after her if needs be and like any couple we obviously portray ourselves to the outside world as such, with aspirations to get married in the future if all works out living together with the kids etc, I think any couple who doesn't have those aspirations are just not meant to be.

Just to be clear, when either of us stay over in each others we obviously cook for one another and would politely clean up after dinners etc. I don't contribute anything financially to her household, nor her mine. Anytime I stay over I would bring my clothes with me in a bag etc for the next day and bring the dirty ones home. I have a spare key to her place but would never be there without her, she only got it for me because she has locked herself out say many times! I live about 15-20 mins away form her.

Early on in our relationship she said that she finds it difficult having a boyfriend because she is nervous of the social welfare, that she feels like she is not allowed have a partner just because she needs to claim social welfare and has kids. She won't post anything on Facebook etc for that reason.



noproblem said:


> Living together and supporting each other while getting payments from the working taxpayer when not entitled is cheating the system. In other words, it's getting money from others by fraudulent means. That's my take on it, but only my opinion. I've no doubt others in a similar state of affairs won't be long in  letting me know a thing or two.



I don't consider us to be living together, yes we are in a relationship and as in any relationship we support each other. Although we are not yet at a stage of supporting one another financially. I would think that that stage of a relationship usually doesn't start until a couple either live, marry or have a child together and given that we both have kids from a previous relationship we have had to purposely take things slower.


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## torblednam (26 Dec 2018)

Without having read the link to the material from social welfare, I'm struggling to understand the apparent attitude of some posters here.

It seems quite obvious to me that 2 adults who have to maintain their own households separately, who spend an occasional night in the other' house, are quite clearly not living together. Surely the fundamental determination of cohabitation is whether there is in fact one household, with a high level of financial interdependence.

In the OP's circumstances, they're still a long way away from that.


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## Leper (26 Dec 2018)

cremeegg said:


> The OP had some perfectly reasonable questions about social welfare rules.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...



"And suddenly we have gone all Roscommon on him."

Cad é sin "all Roscommon"?


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## Bronte (27 Dec 2018)

I agree with Mandelbrot. The OP and his girlfriend are not living together. They spend occasional nights together. The OP’s problem though is that SW can be very difficult in these situations as many people are actually live together while claiming otherwise. And the rules are very opaque in this area. On purpose. 

OP and girlfriend are wise to be precautionary about actually combining households given this will be two families merging and all the baggage that entails.

OP needs also to be conscious of property rights as regards the house he is purchasing.


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## Bronte (27 Dec 2018)

elcato said:


> The only way SW will know about your current arrangement is if you volunteer the info. So I dont see a problem short term. I presume that is what you are worried about.


Which is why your advise not to bring trouble on himself is so apt. Don’t go looking for it.


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## Bronte (27 Dec 2018)

Leper said:


> "And suddenly we have gone all Roscommon on him."
> 
> Cad é sin "all Roscommon"?


How did you miss this, eviction, family, lunatics from Shell to sea, Sinn Féin, the Taoiseach, do gooders, chancers, protesters, burnt out cars, a dog hacked with a hatchet, vigilantes. And a poor man with debts as long as your arm stretching back decades.  And did I mention the bad bank.


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## Leper (27 Dec 2018)

Bronte said:


> How did you miss this, eviction, family, lunatics from Shell to sea, Sinn Féin, the Taoiseach, do gooders, chancers, protesters, burnt out cars, a dog hacked with a hatchet, vigilantes. And a poor man with debts as long as your arm stretching back decades.  And did I mention the bad bank.



Apologies! I never connected the two. I'm slowing up.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (28 Dec 2018)

I can't see you as a couple being assessed as 'cohabiting' in any legal or moral sense.

Still, it might make sense to put one of your parents' bills in your name, in case there is any future dispute and you need evidence of actually living with them.

Good luck with moving in together in due course.


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## Inserteneo (17 Jan 2019)

Hi All,

I never seen the updates here as I never got an email notification. Thanks all for contributions.



Bronte said:


> OP needs also to be conscious of property rights as regards the house he is purchasing.



I would have thought that the house deeds and mortgage in my name would mean I am the property owner. I was also thinking that I should charge a very nominal amount of rent to her until such a time that marriage is on the cards. So if there was any disputes etc it would be covered under a simply tenancy agreement.

Would that suffice?



NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Still, it might make sense to put one of your parents' bills in your name, in case there is any future dispute and you need evidence of actually living with them..



I already pay for the broadband and sky as I really wanted these and they didn't . Also I transfer rent to their account on my pay days.


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## Bronte (17 Jan 2019)

Inserteneo said:


> I would have thought that the house deeds and mortgage in my name would mean I am the property owner.




An assumption that has led to many a court case. And good luck with your nominal rent ruse.


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## Inserteneo (17 Jan 2019)

Bronte said:


> An assumption that has led to many a court case. And good luck with your nominal rent ruse.



I'll have to get proper legal advice from a solicitor if and when the time arises that I have my own place and look at moving her in.


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## Bronte (18 Jan 2019)

Inserteneo said:


> I'll have to get proper legal advice from a solicitor if and when the time arises that I have my own place and look at moving her in.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cohabiting-couples-entitled-to-property-rights-152796.html

https://www.familylawpartners.co.uk/cohabiting-couples-property-rights/

No doubt going forward there will be court cases where we will learn how all of this plays out and gets determined.


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