# Verbal Warning without HR present?



## Bubbles34 (26 Aug 2008)

Hi,

my friend got a verbal warning from her mananger without HR present.
Is that ok?

Any advice appricated


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## Flax (26 Aug 2008)

What is the company policy?


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## ClubMan (26 Aug 2008)

What does the contract of employment or handbook say about the disciplinary process and such warnings? Surely statutory legislation does not go into such detail as specifying that personnel staff must be present in such circumstances? I suppose www.entemp.ie or [broken link removed] might have something on this?


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## Bubbles34 (26 Aug 2008)

will check the contract, thanks

Now after the meeting last week she has now received a written note from the same manager which basically outlines what weaknesses she has and what's expected of her in future.

Again no sign of HR signature. She also has to sign the document

Is that a written warning?


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## Flax (26 Aug 2008)

Why doesn't she just ask the manager?


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## Bubbles34 (26 Aug 2008)

if you would know her you wouldn't ask her either :-(

I just don't want that she signs anything without HR knowing it and than is without a job in a few weeks time. Don't know the regulations very well, just have a bad feeling about this.


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## Mpsox (26 Aug 2008)

There is no specific legal requirement for HR to be present. After all, many smaller companies will not even have an HR department

A verbal warning is usually intended as a short term measure which remains on her record for a period of time. It would be normal to have a writen record of such a warning and it is good practise for a company to do so as it clarifies the position for everyone

In terms of the letter she has received from her line manager, unless it specifically states it is a writen warning, it probably isn't


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## dem_syhp (26 Aug 2008)

As the previous poster said, a written record of a verbal warning is good practice. 

In the past where I asked people sign documents say end of year reviews, etc... it was to acknowledge that they had received them. In the case that they wouldn't, put a note in explaining that the employee was present, the document explained to the employee and would ask another manager to sign it that it had been delivered. This was done in the presence of the employee, put a copy in their record and gave them a copy. 

Means that if there are questions in the future that an employee can not say, I don't remember that or I didn't realise it was a warning, etc... 

On the other side, if an employee wanted to go away and think about something that was fine. The could write anything they wanted it in as far as I was concerned - actually encouraged if they had comments that we put them in and addressed them. So if an employee wanted to put in why they felt it was unfair, or they had not been given sufficient time for improvement, etc... that was fine, it gave us something constructive to work with. 

But once we were at the stage of a warning, I document all conversations - regardless of whether manager or employee. Actually I document most formal conversations/meetings just for clarification. Most just an email back to the individual sumarising what was agreed.


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## sam h (26 Aug 2008)

I worked with a large multinational & had to issue some verbal warning. The norm would be for me to discuss with my manager first & decide to go ahead, we normally advised HR as a courtesty (as the employee may want to discuss the situation with them afterwards).

At this stage I would have sat with the employee and clearly outlined why the warning was being issued (eg : failure to hit targets / lateness), explain what they need to do going forward (eg - min of 70% next month, 85% next month/punchuality) and finally what the implication would be if they didn't (eg - first written).

I would sit with them on my one first, they could request to be heard further, so would bring in my anager, and next step would be HR if they requested.

Verbally warnings would always have been followed with written confirmation of the "Verbal Warning".....I've had employees who didn't comprehend they had actually recieved one until I put it in writing.

In fact, I would have documented everything that was remotely formal - my OH works in a small business and I'm always amazed how little is formally recorded...can lead to issues if there is a misunderstanding.


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## Bubbles34 (26 Aug 2008)

thanks a lot everyone. that explains a lot


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## Staples (27 Aug 2008)

Bubbles34 said:


> Hi,
> 
> my friend got a verbal warning from her mananger without HR present.
> Is that ok?


 
Surely her HR section could advise.


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