# When to stop paying Maintenance!



## lyonsie

Daughter is in College.   Finished nursing, out doing placement.   Will have final results in July, but not having Graduation until December.   When can I stop paying maintenance to her mother for my daughters benefit.   If she decides to further her nursing career I would give the maintenance directly to her instead.  "The decision of the Judge is such, that I am only obliged to make the maintenance payment for as long as the children are dependant.  Once daughter  qualifies, she no longer is in full time education and therefore you no longer have to make maintenance payments there". 
As it is, she (daughter), has had more of a disposable income than myself.   She is getting paid for placement full-time.

Any information on this please.


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## samanthajane

Since your daughter has a full time placement and is being paid for this, i would think you should stop now. If she does continue her education, and still lives at home by law you could be made to pay maintenance untill she is 24 years old, but i dont think that happens very often. 

Do you know what she is receiving for her placement? Do you know if she is giving any money to her mum? Or does her mum give the maintenence to her.


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## Setanta12

Maintenance payable to your (ex-)wife is tax-deductible from your own income and taxable in her hands.

Manitenance payable to children is non-deductible. 

Is there anyway, at the very least to pay the money to your wife for her and for her to do what she wants (maybe incl. upkeep of your daughter?), instead of dorectly to /for your daughter - you'd save a small bit.


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## lyonsie

I have been paying maintenance to ex, but it is divided in 3 parts, (a) for ex and (b&c) for daughters, but it all goes to ex.   The amount for (a) is very little, 100euro per month, would I get much back in the way of tax?
Anyone out there know how much student nurse's get in placement.   I would not be told even if I asked!!!!!  But I am led to believe it is about half a qualified nurse's pay... I could be way out.


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## Thirsty

Lyonsie, if you haven't been claiming the tax relief on the spousal maintenance you can do so now, am open to correction but I'm pretty sure you can back date this.

Re child maintenance, you are obliged to pay it until 18 or 23 if child is in full-time education; you'll have to apply for a variation if you want child's income to be included in assessment of maintenance amount.

Applying for a variation isn't that big a deal, you can make the application yourself.


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## lyonsie

Thanks, but it is coming to an end and I will not be upsetting the 'apple cart', I havn't done so yet so am not going to.
If it's this month, next month or December it is a lot nearer than when I started paying my share.   So not a long wait.
Just would like to know when students are deemed to be officially finished, after they receive their final results, and do not have to return to college, or after graduation!!!!   I have an idea of the answer, but would like the official verdict.
I know lots of graduates leave for jobs once results are received...  Some don't even return for graduation!!!!!


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## lou2

Once they are registered with An Bord Altranais as a qualified nurse. Until they do this they can't work as a staff nurse.


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## lyonsie

Thanks for that bit of info.   Just a further question re this.   When can a student nurse register, is it after they get their results.


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## Thirsty

you might find what you need here

http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/homepage.aspx


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## lyonsie

Had a look at that site, and also the INO site.   To my amazement I see on the INO site that a student nurse earns 25,500 for the last 12 months....   I would love to be able to ask someone about this and get the definitive answer.   If she is on 25,500 a year I don't think she is 'dependent'.   I don't wish to be mean, but I would never be told unless I find out myself.


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## Bronte

lyonsie said:


> . If she is on 25,500 a year I don't think she is 'dependent'. .


 I agree with you and depending on your income I'm sure a judge would see it that way so (unless you are a multimillionaire). Why don't you just ask your daughter, she is after all an adult.


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## lyonsie

Thanks Bronte, as she is almost 23 and just awaiting her final results, (in 2/3 weeks time) I don't think it worthwhile to bother a judge.   I was just hoping that someone in the 'know' would be able to tell me when a student nurse is officially finished college, and when they go on this 'rostered placement' to be in receipt of the 25,500euro for the final 12 months (or has it gone down to 17,500 for the last 9 months).
I am not a mean person, but at the moment I feel like the proverbial 'mushroom'.   I have asked her about finances but I am always led to believe that she has nothing and it just does'nt tally with what others are saying.
Am I being led on a merry dance????


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## samanthajane

I would think that at 23 what ever wage she is on she is now able enough to look after herself. Weather the amount she earns is 25k or 17k. 

She will always be your daughter and might come and say dad can you leand/give me "x" amount, thats what kids do. 

But i think it's time you stopped giving maintenance to her mum. She has finished her education and is working. If she had completly flopped her exams would they allow her to work even as a student nurse?

I'd approach her mum and tell her that you are going to stop maintenance, dont think she'll be happy about it, but if your not being told income i think this is for a reason. She probably knows you shouldn't still be continuing with the maintenance. If she wishes she can go down the court route but i dont think she would do that and think it's even less likely the judge would continue making you pay. 

I thought it was 24 but someone else said 23. Not sure where you would get that information from, but see if you can find out. If it is 23 then you dont have long before you legally dont have to pay anymore. Waiting till then might avoid hassel you dont need. Since your daughter doesn't seem to want to tell you anything, this could be because she's trying to help her mum out so she can continue to get the support from you.


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## lyonsie

The judgement is up till the age of 18, or 23 if in full time education.   While dependent.   I think myself when she gets her final results in a few weeks while on full time placement (rostered) and being paid is the end of being dependent...Would I be right...


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## Ann1

lyonsie . Spousal maintenance in this day and age.!!! Why do you have to pay this.  Does it cease when you finish paying maintenance for your daughter or is it for life.


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## Hanks09

lyonsie said:


> Thanks Bronte, as she is almost 23 and just awaiting her final results, (in 2/3 weeks time) I don't think it worthwhile to bother a judge. I was just hoping that someone in the 'know' would be able to tell me when a student nurse is officially finished college, and when they go on this 'rostered placement' to be in receipt of the 25,500euro for the final 12 months (or has it gone down to 17,500 for the last 9 months).
> I am not a mean person, but at the moment I feel like the proverbial 'mushroom'. I have asked her about finances but I am always led to believe that she has nothing and it just does'nt tally with what others are saying.
> Am I being led on a merry dance????


 
Rostered placement is from Jan - Sept.

So assuming your daughter passed placement she should be registered with ABA sometime in October.


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## lyonsie

Thanks again Hanks09.   You seem to know what you are talking about.   From a parent who is paying maintenance until a child is finished their full time education and they are no longer dependent, when do you think my daughter fits into this category.   I believe she is now finished college as she is getting her final results at the end of this month.


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## lou2

She won't be finished her education officially until she has successfully passed her rostered placement as this is part of the requirements of An Bord Altranais. So, she may have finished in College in terms of exams but she is still considered a student until both the theory and practice component of the course is successfully completed.


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## Hanks09

lyonsie said:


> Thanks again Hanks09. You seem to know what you are talking about. From a parent who is paying maintenance until a child is finished their full time education and they are no longer dependent, when do you think my daughter fits into this category. I believe she is now finished college as she is getting her final results at the end of this month.


 
No problem. I am only coming from a nursing background here and not a legal one so i am not in any great position to advise but personally i would argue the case that your daughter has no longer been dependent since the start of January but others may argue otherwise!


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## lyonsie

So between Lou2 and Hanks09's replies I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.   Any 'legal eagles' out there with experience of this.


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## Bronte

lyonsie said:


> So between Lou2 and Hanks09's replies I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Any 'legal eagles' out there with experience of this.


 
I fail to see how she is a dependant if she is earning 25K.


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## Thirsty

You've said she's almost 23 though - so no matter what you don't have very long left to pay maintenance.   

If she's living at home, then she is benefitting from the maintenance you are paying either directly or indirectly.

Is it worth the hassle at this stage?


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## Dachshund

OP I don't know if you are divorced or judicially separated but the definition of a "dependent child of the family under the [broken link removed] is as follows:

"dependent member of the family", in relation to a spouse, or the spouses, concerned, means any child— ...

 who is under the age of 18 years or if the *child* has attained that age—

 (i) is or will be or, if an order were made under this Act providing for periodical payments for the benefit of the *child* or for the provision of a lump sum for the *child*, would be receiving full-time education or instruction at any university, college, school or other educational establishment and is under the age of 23 years, or

 (ii) has a mental or physical disability to such extent that it is not reasonably possible for the *child* to maintain himself or herself fully;


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## Emiso

lyonsie,
Just to let you know that your daughter's basic annual salary will increase to 31,875 as soon as she has registered with An Bord Altranais. There are extra payments for weekends & unsocial hours etc.


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## Thirsty

Once she's registered and no longer considered to be in full time education the requirement to maintain ceases; so her salary won't enter into it.

Good to know that Dad's support has helped her get a good career path though.


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## lyonsie

Looks like I will be paying until September, as she will be finished during that month.   I have no doubt that she will successfully pass her placement with flying colours as she is (according to herself) always in the top of her class.
Can I put a fly in the ointment, and state that she wants to go further and do medicine next year, if she is offered a place. She will be going on 24 then so I assume I will no longer be expected to 'fork out'.
I will gladly give her funds, should I be in a position to do so, I just think her mother has squeezed me for enough.   Especially as I am treated like the proverbial 'mushroom'......


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## Bronte

Kildrought said:


> Good to know that Dad's support has helped her get a good career path though.


 
I wish to second that.  

OP you have done your best for your daughter, when she's older she will see that.  It's not easy to be a child between split up parents.


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## lyonsie

Thank you for your kind sentiments...   Lets hope she does.


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## Thirsty

> I just think her mother has squeezed me for enough


She also seems to have done a reasonable job of raising your daughter...and your financial support would have been a big help in that.  

Even if you were still married, the bulk of your salary would have been spent in supporting your children - it's what we do as parents and at the end of the day its only money, there's no pockets in a shroud.  

You have a daughter to be proud of - that's surely worth more than anything else.


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## lyonsie

Back again Lou2 and Hank09.....  Daughter has just received her final results (2:1) and I am bringing her out for lunch tomorrow to celebrate.....
I asked her today about being paid and she flatly denied this.   She told me she gets 90euro per month towards travelling expenses, so where do the previous figures mentioned come in.
She had done her nursing through Trinity College and her placement in Tallaght Hospital....   Am I being led around the garden path (or wha!!!).
She says she can not earn until she registers with ABA in August, when she finishes her placement.
Anything further on this.   Am I back to square one.   I have decided to pay until Sept.   But would like to have the facts.


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## lou2

I think you are perhaps being led about the garden path. She should be on her rostered placement at the moment. Students are sometimes paid a travel allowance alright, but not on rostered placement...this would be just for a non-rostered placement usually in 1st, 2nd or 3rd year. Why don't you ask her specifically if she is currently on rostered placement (or internship). With regard to not being able to earn until she registers with ABA....She can't earn as a staff nurse...but she can earn as a rostered student. She should be registering with ABA in September when her rostered placement is finished.


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## lyonsie

Thanks for that.  Is there any way to know for def. as I am not going to be told.  I know she is being more than economic with the truth, as she runs a car, has a good social life and has taken up horse-riding!!!   All costly pursuits...
I am not going to make anyone pay or anything, I would just like to know for further reference as the time will arise when it would be very handy to have this information.   And to be able to prove it.
Any of you out there student nurses, trained in Tallaght/James Hosp and now on rostered placement having gotten your final results last Tuesday, please help desperate 'mushroom' (father).
Could I contact the HSE or anyone.


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## lightswitch

Hi Lyonsie,  Just to make the situation a little clearer, how much are you paying towards your daughter each month and what % is that of your income?  From reading the thread it seems your issue lies more with the feeling that you are being ripped off rather than the money involved, correct me if I have taken this up wrong.   Can you just clarify as well what a Mushroom father is?  I have not heard this term before.  Cheers, LS.


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## daithi

Mushroom treatment refers to being kept in the dark and fed full of....


daithi


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## Complainer

lyonsie said:


> Thanks for that.  Is there any way to know for def. as I am not going to be told.  I know she is being more than economic with the truth, as she runs a car, has a good social life and has taken up horse-riding!!!   All costly pursuits...


Have you asked here where the money for this is coming from?


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## lyonsie

Yes, its more the feeling of being ripped off than the money involved.   I kept paying the maintenance when she quit college after a few weeks and took the year out and got herself a job in the bank 3 years ago.
I am still paying maintenance for her younger sister who also started a course last september and quit it after a few weeks also, and she is 18.   She has had a job for the past year.   I did not deny them their year out.
If I ask or queiry anything I am frozen out.   It has been a very tough 10 years since I seperated and divorced their mother.   I am just looking forward to having a relationship with my daughters without any other ulterior motive involved.   I don't want them to be constantly watching what they say or do because of maintenance.   My younger daughter has no interest in going to college but her mother is insisting on it!!!! and my daughter is under no illusion as to the reason why.   She refers to herself as 'a milking cow'...
So I am looking forward to not paying maintenance any more for them, for quiet a different reason than most people think.
As to my eldest one, they would have me believe that her nursing course will not finish until next May, 2010 and she will not rock the boat and say anything different.
I just want someone to tell me the truth and unfortunately I need to be able to prove it too.


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## Dachshund

Lyonsie,

Why don't you contact the place where she did the course and find out when the course finishes. If she has graduated then she is no longer in full time education.

My understanding of maintenance is that once the child is 23 or is working then maintenance is no longer payable in respect of that child. If the child is a Fás apprentice then no maintenance is payable. If your daughter is in a paid placement then it would seem that no maintenance is payable. She is no longer is full time education and she is 23 then no maintenance is payable.


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## flakey

Lyonsie.......my niece is entering her final yr of nursing in Trinity and will be paid from January. Sorry but you are being lied to for no good reason. You have done your moral and legal bit, pity your ex doesn't have the same ethics. Shame on her for having your daughter lie to you. The following is from the Trinity website.

The Children's and General integrated course will consist of 58 weeks of unpaid practice placements along with a *36-week roster of continuous placement where you will be a paid health service employee. The rostered placement spans the fourth and fifth years of the course. *


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## Thirsty

> I don't want them to be constantly watching what they say or do because of maintenance.


 Have you considered this could be related to your attitude on the payment of maintenance?



> My younger daughter has no interest in going to college but her mother is insisting on it!!!!


Given the current economic climate, I would be feeling the same way...in our parents day the Leaving Cert was considered to be a 'good education'. Things have changed.


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## Ann1

Lyonsie
Just a question I have. Is this young woman your daughter.


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## froggy

unfortunately not a legal eagle but i imagine that as soon as she gets results she is finished her education- (unless she doesnt pass)!


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## froggy

i would imagine if she passes course she is then no longer in education system?


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## Megan

My niece is at the same level as your daughter. She studied in UCD and her final placement was in the Mater Hospital. She has been paid since last January but I don't know what she earns but I do know she runs her own car and has been paying her own rent since January which has been a great help to her parents as they have 2 more children in college. She will finish her placement at the end of August and won't be able to work until I think it is the end of September when she can register as a fully qualified nurse.
I think your daughter is telling you a few fibs which is sad as you did your duty to her and will do I am sure as in my eyes a parent is a job for life. Best of luck.


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## solomon

Well, September has come and gone and Lyonsie is no longer posting. Perhaps he has found a solution to his problems and I wish him well.
I watched the posts concerning this matter with interest as I am in a similar position.
When my dependant child turns 23 in September 2010 she will still be in full time education because she continued on from a Degree course to a post-Grad course.

My understanding is that I no longer have to pay child maintenance to the mother once the dependant child reaches 23 and this is irrespective of whether the child is still in education, unemployed or has income?

Anybody concur with this view?


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## Thirsty

23 is the final cut-off date; unless the child has special needs/disabilities that mean they will always be dependent on parents, in that case there is no end point to child maintenance.


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