# Passport workers paid double for their time off?



## haminka1 (11 Apr 2010)

http://www.independent.ie/national-...re-paid-double-time-for-time-off-2133625.html

I think I'm in a wrong job /or, to be more precise in a wrong sector/. Wonder how long it would take my company to show me the door if I told them I don't feel like working and then asked to be paid double for that time. One minute, two minutes?


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## Howitzer (11 Apr 2010)

> "ah jaysus, that's an internal email. You shouldn't have it," ray devine at the passport office in cork said yesterday.


lol


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## Complainer (11 Apr 2010)

So the Indo is continuing it's strategy of 'divide and conquer', now trying to create division between Cork and Dublin workers, no surprise there then.


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## Caveat (11 Apr 2010)

So are you saying it's a complete fiction?


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## mathepac (11 Apr 2010)

What a wonderful conjunction in a single thread of all that is great about life on our little island :


 the public service
 public service unions
 The Sindo
 and that greatest of all our Public Service super-heroes,  DefendThemToTheLast-Man. 
  Thanks haminka1, post appreciated.


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## Leper (11 Apr 2010)

We are talking about 90 minutes here (per person).  This type of incentive is not unusual even in the Private Sector.  

When I worked in England in the late 60s this type of sweetner was used all the time.  It had benefits for the employer and the employee.

I would call this type of payment (if true) to be thinking outside the box.

I would have thought most of you would have thought of similar incentives, win/win situations etc. But, then again this is knock, knock, knock Ireland.


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## orka (11 Apr 2010)

When I saw the title, I thought this would be another topic to make me exasperated at work practices in the public but in fairness (gulp), I actually don't have big problem with this. Yes, the backlog was largely of their making but: 

(a) we saw from posts on here that the Cork staff WERE a lot more flexible with the public (I would prefer if this was rewarded with their being docked less pay than their Dublin colleagues but that's not happening...), 

(b) if you look on the work as being 'per piece delivered' rather than per hour, they actually delivered more than they were expected to in their shift - 30 instead of 25

and 

(c) it would be great if these incentivised efficiencies could be used to establish new 'pieces delivered per shift' targets. Allowing an hour for lunch/breaks in the 6.5 hour scheduled work shift, 30 passports in 4 hours (to let them go home 1.5 hours early) is 60% more productive than 25 passports in 5.5 hours. If they can do that when incentivised, there surely must be scope for ongoing efficiencies (maybe not at the 60% level because no-one can work flat out all the time) and they have just helped to prove it...


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## Leper (11 Apr 2010)

Good on ya Orka! At last somebody from the private sector seeing the positive side in the pubic service.  But, wait for the backlash of the I-dont-believe-there-is-anything-positive-to-be-said-about-the-public-service brigade.


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## shanegl (11 Apr 2010)

Complainer said:


> So the Indo is continuing it's strategy of 'divide and conquer', now trying to create division between Cork and Dublin workers, no surprise there then.



Why would it create division?


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## Staples (12 Apr 2010)

Can I ask.... 

In the private sector, if a manager took it upon himself to give staff 90 minutes off in return for a 20% productivity increase, would it be regarded as a good thing?

If so, why is it not okay for the public sector? Is it not the absence of this sort of flexible approach in the public sector that the private sector is forever lamenting?

This, for me, goes to heart of the public sector "reform" debate. If the media and other commentators insist in evaluating every initiative against its immediate cost rather than its longer-term value, it will be very hard to make any progress.


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## DerKaiser (12 Apr 2010)

I think the Sindo is out on a limb here!

I read the rationale and was quite impressed that productivity and efficiency were being rewarded in the public service.


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## Vanilla (12 Apr 2010)

Staples said:


> Can I ask....
> 
> In the private sector, if a manager took it upon himself to give staff 90 minutes off in return for a 20% productivity increase, would it be regarded as a good thing?
> 
> ...


 

_Honestly, and without any intention whatsoever to engage in public sector bashing, in the real world, if a manager achieved a 20% productivity increase the manager would probably recieve a bonus for that year, none of the 'factory floor' workers would though. And the next year the company would expect the 120% productivity as baseline and look for an increase on that._


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## Purple (12 Apr 2010)

orka said:


> When I saw the title, I thought this would be another topic to make me exasperated at work practices in the public but in fairness (gulp), I actually don't have big problem with this. Yes, the backlog was largely of their making but:
> 
> (a) we saw from posts on here that the Cork staff WERE a lot more flexible with the public (I would prefer if this was rewarded with their being docked less pay than their Dublin colleagues but that's not happening...),
> 
> ...


I agree with all of that. I think it was a great idea.



Staples said:


> Can I ask....
> 
> In the private sector, if a manager took it upon himself to give staff 90 minutes off in return for a 20% productivity increase, would it be regarded as a good thing?
> 
> ...


same there; agree completely.



Vanilla said:


> _Honestly, and without any intention whatsoever to engage in public sector bashing, in the real world, if a manager achieved a 20% productivity increase the manager would probably recieve a bonus for that year, none of the 'factory floor' workers would though. And the next year the company would expect the 120% productivity as baseline and look for an increase on that._



Not if it was well run.


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## carpedeum (12 Apr 2010)

Ssshhhh! Don't tell the teachers or they will look for double payment for their 4 months+ holidays per year and any hours in excess of their weekly 22 hours contact with pupils!


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## Leper (12 Apr 2010)

Carpedeum.  If you think your post is witty you are well off the mark. Also, it makes no sense.


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## DerKaiser (13 Apr 2010)

Vanilla said:


> _Honestly, and without any intention whatsoever to engage in public sector bashing, in the real world, if a manager achieved a 20% productivity increase the manager would probably recieve a bonus for that year, none of the 'factory floor' workers would though. And the next year the company would expect the 120% productivity as baseline and look for an increase on that._


 
It's probably true, but its a sadder reflection on the 'real world' than anything else


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## Purple (13 Apr 2010)

Leper said:


> Carpedeum.  If you think your post is witty you are well off the mark. Also, it makes no sense.


  I found it funny and I understood it


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## thedaras (13 Apr 2010)

Me too..


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## VOR (13 Apr 2010)

When it comes to the SIndo the PS really can't win. What is wrong with rewarding those who work hard?
Devine should be applauded for doing what he did. The people who did nothing got nothing. The staff in the Cork office worked harder and got rewarded with double time and a few hours off. IMO that's the way it should be. Reward only those who deserve it.


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## liaconn (13 Apr 2010)

Vanilla said:


> _Honestly, and without any intention whatsoever to engage in public sector bashing, in the real world, if a manager achieved a 20% productivity increase the manager would probably recieve a bonus for that year, none of the 'factory floor' workers would though. And the next year the company would expect the 120% productivity as baseline and look for an increase on that._


 
So the Public Sector treats its workers fairer than the Private Sector? This is surely a good thing.
I think this article is the usual Sindo - trying to stir up outrage over nothing - rubbish.


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## shnaek (13 Apr 2010)

But these guys caused the problem in the first place! The backlog was caused by industrial action. That would be like me coming in to work, dossing around, missing my deadline, and then getting a bonus for staying in late a few evenings to do work I should have gotten done already!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for incentives - for real work done.


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## VOR (13 Apr 2010)

shnaek said:


> But these guys caused the problem in the first place!



Correct me if I am wrong but is this not a case of one office doing  nothing and another putting in additional work? If so, the latter office  (Cork) deserve the incentive. The former deserve to have pay docked.

From the article:
_"The staff in Cork were much more courteous and much more flexible  than the staff in [broken link removed]  -- that is why the incentive was given," he said. Staff at the  Cork passport office who worked at the Easter weekend were rostered from  8.30am to 3pm. "I am introducing some incentive to staff which might  assist staff in leaving earlier than normal," said Mr Devine in the  circulated email. 
_
If the staff receiving the incentive were th ones who caused the delay I would have a different response. I say well done to those in Cork who gave up the Easter weekend to help with the backlog.


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## mathepac (13 Apr 2010)

I think the situation is ludicrous and the quotes from the interview (some reproduced below for their  hilarity-inducing content) would make excellent material for a surreal "Yes, Minister" script.

The public service and its so-called managers need to get used to zero-sum budgeting and incentives.  To extrapolate from what the interviewee (who should not have been giving interviews) said, the staff from the office who were  much less courteous and much less flexible should have had their bonuses (incentive payments or whatever) reduced in order to fund the incentives paid to the “much more courteous and much more flexible“ staff in a different office.

There is no evidence that I have seen or heard that the staff in the Dublin office suffered any financial loss or had their holidays docked to balance the books. The die is cast - public servants can  now be dis-courteous with their customers, inflexible in their working arrangements and will suffer no penalties or reprimands; anyone seen to be operating even slightly above this exceptionally low benchmark (remember benchmarking ?) will be paid bonuses and get extra time off.

Choice quotes :-


 _“Ah jaysus, that's an internal email. You shouldn't have it,"_
_ "The staff in Cork were much more courteous and much more flexible than the staff in Dublin that is why the incentive was given," he said._
_ "I'm not supposed to be giving interviews -- the reason for it is we were trying to catch up on the backlog,"_
_ "The work-to-rule created a bottle neck in the system and in this case the inclusion of incentives would be normal," said a spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs, which is responsible for the passport service._
_ "The staff in Cork were much more courteous and much more flexible than the staff in Dublin that is why the incentive was given," he said._


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