# Very poor knowledge of banking from Ulster Bank staff.



## Odea (7 Feb 2018)

I have had a number of issues with my current account in the Ulster bank over the past year. Every time I call to my local branch and have a query, I am constantly getting different answers to my questions and queries from different staff members.
It has got to the stage where I don't believe anything that they are saying anymore.
Many of these staff have many years service.
Are they no longer being trained or what is going on?


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## Protocol (7 Feb 2018)

An AIB mortgage official confused capital losses with negative equity while I spoke with her.


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## Monbretia (7 Feb 2018)

Are you sure they have many years service?  From what I see of UB there is hardly anyone left with experience, I have a complicated query re an old product and can't bring myself to contact them as I know no one will have a clue what I am talking about!


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## michaelm (7 Feb 2018)

It's not just UB.  It's not just banks.  I find that asking a question pretty much anywhere, and getting a reasonable answer, is lucky dip.


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## Bronco Lane (7 Feb 2018)

I am approaching my 66th birthday and I asked a staff member in the Ulster Bank if that was the age "free" banking commenced. No,  I was told it starts at age 68.

The same official had been complaining about the poor quality counter staff that she had to work with......They know nothing she said.


"The waivers explained
It's simple. You qualify for maintenance fee-free banking if:


You maintain a minimum cleared balance of €3,000 in your current account for each charging cycle
You are aged 66 or over "


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## Monbretia (7 Feb 2018)

Hmmm, that would make me wonder if UB are intending changing the free banking age to 68 to match what the pension age is changing to, maybe they had forward training


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## cremeegg (7 Feb 2018)

Odea said:


> I have had a number of issues with my current account in the Ulster bank over the past year. Every time I call to my local branch and have a query, I am constantly getting different answers to my questions and queries from different staff members.
> It has got to the stage where I don't believe anything that they are saying anymore.
> Many of these staff have many years service.
> Are they no longer being trained or what is going on?



Every time UB make a mistake, I make a complaint. Every time I receive compensation, I am well over €1,000 in compensation to date.

Its €50 for every error, plus €50 to €100 per claim.

I love their incompetence. Making a claim is easy, just email customerrelations@ulsterbank.ie with an outline of your issue. You dont need proof or supporting documentation. You get a holding response, then they do not reply within the promised time frame. That is the subject of the next complaint. And on it goes. Not as entertaining a way to spend an idle hour as AAM but more lucrative.


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## Palerider (8 Feb 2018)

+1, that is so funny, full disclosure now I'm ex UB having taken VS in 2009, I like to think I left whilst I still had a reputation, old school,

UB cleared out their staff on VS, the good ones ( yes, I was a good one, senior rank and considered as such and on a super salary  ) took the package.

Those that joined on attractive packages from other Banks were stuck, they still are, not enough cash payoff to disappear and those staff that replaced the experienced staff are as described above...hopelessly undertrained and disinterested, UB strategy was so lacking and here we are, the basics prove a struggle to many of the newer officials.

Would I want my children to follow me into Dads career .... Would I ....Nope.

Cremeegg is right. Spot the failures and complain.


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## mathepac (8 Feb 2018)

The "Yellow Packs" are everywhere. Know nothing, care even less. Untrained, undereducated, defensive, uncaring and uninterested. "I'm ending this call now as I cannot escalate your issue and you are alleging I don't know my job".


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## Tintagel (8 Feb 2018)

I lodged a Sterling cheque in to my account in UB. Three weeks later I got my bank statement only to discover that it had been reversed out. I called to the bank and pointed out their error to them. The so called manager reluctantly agreed to meet me on the day I called. (He never leaves his office).

When they realised what had happened they refunded me my money and gave me €50 compensation.

I wanted to know how they hadn't spotted the error when they were balancing at the end of the day. The cheque was for an odd amount and would have stood out. I also asked why it was left to the customer to point out their error to them.

His answer was he didn't know but didn't we give you "€50 compensation".

Since then there have been two further incidents with the same branch. Thankfully I always reconcile my bank statements because I doubt if the Sterling cheque error would have been discovered.

I agree with the above. The counter staff are really bad and I have heard them tell people the most outlandish rubbish.

It's scary.


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## Evie1962 (8 Feb 2018)

I'm ex B of I staff- old school like yourself Palerider. The rot started in B of I in about 1989 when the bank in their wisdom decided to recruit anyone and everyone to staff the branches. The training was patchy for the most part. Most have no idea how to look for a cash difference and many hardly know a debit from a credit. There is no sense of customer service at all. They'll put up with the complaints as long as staff costs are kept to a minimum. For the most part those making the decisions have never seen a customer, never mind spoken to one. I


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Feb 2018)

mathepac said:


> The "Yellow Packs" are everywhere. Know nothing, care even less. Untrained, undereducated, defensive, uncaring and uninterested. "I'm ending this call now as I cannot escalate your issue and you are alleging I don't know my job".


I have came across well Educated people who are defensive uncaring and uninterested who use there Education/Qualifications to do as little as possible they get paid for there Qualifications not how the do there job. replacing less Educated people and the service provided going down hill,


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## MrEarl (8 Feb 2018)

Hello,

I find it interesting how much emphasis there has been on getting bank staff qualified as QFA's (so they can tick a box with the Central Bank and sell various services), but there appears to be no focus or obligation on all bank staff having to pass certain exams and kept education up to date, regarding basic legislative, banking or accounting requirements, which are all equally important for bank staff.

Older bank staff may recall the former Banking Certificate from the Institute of Bankers (now the Institute of Banking), which was based on the content of four little green and white books, full of excellent information.  A couple of decades later, there are lots and lots of courses, but I struggle to find any course offering similar content to what was provided back then, covering such simple but most important things as the rules and legislation regarding cheques etc.

The Central Bank should be all over this issue to help protect consumers, while I can't help but wonder if Banks might secure more long term custom, if they up-skilled their staff properly with some basic, but essential knowledge and skills.


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## Evie1962 (8 Feb 2018)

MrEarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> I find it interesting how much emphasis there has been on getting bank staff qualified as QFA's (so they can tick a box with the Central Bank and sell various services), but there appears to be no focus or obligation on all bank staff having to pass certain exams and kept education up to date, regarding basic legislative, banking or accounting requirements, which are all equally important for bank staff.
> 
> ...



I remember that well. Stage A was Banking Law, Economics, Statistics, and Accounting. It was really quite good. I did three parts of Stage A in about 1987/1988 and could have repeated the one I didn't get, but got distracted with marriage and kids!


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## michaelm (8 Feb 2018)

I've opened accounts in the past where it got hung up on me not supplying my PPS number.  I explain that while they are obliged to ask for it (box ticked) it's not a show-stopper if I won't supply it.  A huddle and a phone call later everything lurches forward.


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## qwerty5 (8 Feb 2018)

While I'm happy with Ulster Banks products and their service I've had similar experiences. 
When I first got my mortgage I noticed the interest I was being charged didn't equal what I thought I should be charged. I rang their mortgage helpline and asked for the formula for calculating interest. I was told their systems handle the calculations. Full stop, end of conversation.
I understand they might not have it to hand but it's also not rocket science (my formula is a basic primary school compound interest formula). The reason for my discrepancy was that I was calculating monthly and they do daily. I found that out by coming to sites like this. The mortgage helpline couldn't provide that info.


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## Grizzly (8 Feb 2018)

I joined the Bank of Ireland in 1970. I remember being trained on deposits, batch, cash. I had someone sit with me while training was taking place and showing me how to find errors etc.
When we balanced at the end of the day and had a difference, paper or cash, we would reconstruct the day's work. We wouldn't leave the office until the error was found.
Tintagel above talks about a Sterling cheque being reversed out of his account.....This should have been spotted at the time of balancing because there would have been a surplus cheque over at the end of the day or an amount equal to the amount of the cheque. The simplest of things to find. To think that 3 weeks later this still hadn't been found is inexcusable. 
Evie1962 talks about the staff not knowing the difference between a debit and a credit. I couldn't agree more. Also when looking for a difference of say €120, always check half or double that amount in case a debit was entered as a credit or vice versa.

I have an account with the Ulster Bank there was a large error made in my account. Nobody spotted it except me. It seems that this bank is happy to "write off" errors rather than look for them. They couldn't care less. It seems if the customers spots one of their errors and complains then throw €50 at them to keep them quiet.

It seems that it is easier to do this than look for the error.  That's all very well but in my case I would have been down several hundred only for I spotted the error.


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## MrEarl (9 Feb 2018)

Grizzly said:


> I joined the Bank of Ireland in 1970. I remember being trained on deposits, batch, cash. I had someone sit with me while training was taking place and showing me how to find errors etc.



Ah, the batch,  now that takes me back a couple of decades ... for the life of me, I couldn't tell you now how to spot a digit reversal having been input to cause the balance to be out, but I could back then (because I had the benefit of someone who knew what they were doing and gave a fiddlers, to train me in properly)


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## Monbretia (9 Feb 2018)

I actually loved the batch, that was my job as the junior   To this day I can use a calculator at high speed without looking at the keys.   The first few weeks of training someone new was terrible, you'd be there until all hours every evening trying to find what error they made.

Not that long before I left we had the usual sales talk on house insurance, one of my colleagues came to me afterwards with the info that they did not know the difference between detatched/semi detached/terraced.  I had to do a little childish drawing of a house on it's own, two stuck together and a row of them.   He used to keep that in his folder to refer to when asked for quotes


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## Evie1962 (9 Feb 2018)

Monbretia said:


> I actually loved the batch, that was my job as the junior   To this day I can use a calculator at high speed without looking at the keys.   The first few weeks of training someone new was terrible, you'd be there until all hours every evening trying to find what error they made.
> 
> Not that long before I left we had the usual sales talk on house insurance, one of my colleagues came to me afterwards with the info that they did not know the difference between detatched/semi detached/terraced.  I had to do a little childish drawing of a house on it's own, two stuck together and a row of them.   He used to keep that in his folder to refer to when asked for quotes



That takes me back! I wasn't terribly talented at Maths concepts in school but I was always a whizz at arithmetic- a €90 cash difference was €10 for €100 or €540 for €450 or whatever. I see the cashiers in my local branch counting cash 20,40, 60 etc which is not correct. You should count 1, 2,3 and then multiply by €20 or €50 and so on. When they're writing down how much cash they've been given they write €200 in €10s rather than the proper way of recording it as €10 x 20. 

I could go on!


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## MrEarl (9 Feb 2018)

Looks like the banks have lost a lot of talent, based on this thread alone 

Unfortunately, a sizeable part of the problem is that the Banks are not being run by true bankers, but by all sorts of professionals - half of whom know nothing about banking, but think it's simply down to quick sales of whatever the flavour of the month is, or radical cost cutting plans etc.

Anyone who has read the various reports on why the likes of Anglo etc. went wrong, will see one of the key reasons was the lack of real understanding about risk, around the Boardroom table.


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## Evie1962 (9 Feb 2018)

Absolutely spot on MrEarl. When I was in branch banking in B of I in the mid eighties, senior management were absolutely obsessed with AIB and the profits they were making. It was unbelievable. It turned into sell, sell, sell, reduce staff costs etc etc. Instead of wanting old style people like myself, they wanted risk takers and sales people. I got out when we were told to give old dears a credit card instead of a small loan. One of the assistant managers who had the highest levels of integrity and morals refused and called it usury. I remember that very well - and that was back in about 1988.

The same assistant manager was very involved with various campaigns, Anti Apartheid Movement, an Taisce etc etc. I had such regard for him that I named one of my boys after him!


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## Monbretia (9 Feb 2018)

We could all go on I'd say!  I was useless at maths, got NG in pre leaving  but boy can I mind money and do them sort of sums.


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## IsleOfMan (9 Feb 2018)

In my local Ulster Bank in South County Dublin they can't even be bothered to change the foreign exchange rates on the board in the customer area of the office. Many a time I have had to remind them to change the date on their date stamp.

The thing about it is they are all full of their own self importance and wouldn't dream of apologising when wrong.


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## mathepac (9 Feb 2018)

Do any long-time bank officials remember the print-out that arrived from HQ every month for commercial customers and every quarter for personal customers? It was called something like the "Advice of Account Charges". It was a computerised report of non-interest charges calculated automatically based on account activity and had to be verified in-branch prior to the posting of charges against accounts. It was a key profitability metric for the branch.


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## Palerider (9 Feb 2018)

Yes indeed, I recall it was quarterly,  there was also provision to alter these figures to account if extra time was taken to manage some customers accounts.


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## mathepac (9 Feb 2018)

It'd be interesting to sit in on one of the review meetings these days based on the "helpfulness" and "management assistance" provided by current staff.


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## Monbretia (9 Feb 2018)

I wonder is that even a question anymore on the reviews?  Now it's sales sales sales!


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## IsleOfMan (10 Feb 2018)

Monbretia said:


> I wonder is that even a question anymore on the reviews? Now it's sales sales sales!


In my Ulster Bank branch there is no sales sales sales. The reason being is that the staff don't even know their own products let alone what their competitors might be offering.
I remember having a substantial balance in my current account. To give credit one staff member said to me that the Ulster Bank can offer great savings rates. When I asked, the staff member had to look up the rates on their computer. Back in the day I would have had these rates in my head.
I asked the official about their competitors rates, An Post etc.  Not only did they not know these rates they hadn't even heard of Savings Certificates, Bonds etc.
It was obvious that this person had been told to sell sell sell but hadn't prepared themselves for someone who, on the other side of the counter, might actually have some knowledge.
The current counter staff are even worse than the Yellow packs of the late 1990's.


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## Monbretia (10 Feb 2018)

It's not the counter staff's job (according to UB and probably most banks) to sell you the actual products, what they are trying to sell is the appointment with the advisor (I use the word loosely obviously).   The counter staff have targets for appointments, they are their sales as such, then the advisors have their own targets for getting the customer to purchase the products.  

The odd time you will get a very knowledgeable counter staff member, I know a couple that have basically been 'demoted' from advisor roles which of course are no longer advisor roles but sales as they wouldn't flog products indiscrimately so they end up back on the counter which is the lowest rung of the ladder.

We used to have a thing called a 'Super 5' which was if you managed to sell the customer 5 products in one go, mortgage/life cover/repayment protector/house insurance/credit card.   I can say I never got a super 5 as I never found a customer for whom all 5 products were suitable in one go but plenty did and got the bonuses to match!


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## irishair2001 (11 Mar 2018)

Last Friday March9 , the deadline in Ulster  Bank to cover cheques is 1.30 PM , I lodged cash into lodgement machine in the branch at 12.31 PM, the time on the receipt was 13.31,so I brought this to notice of the person on the floor and asked him if the transaction would be processed in time and he said it should be as the staff just had to check all the notes in the machine ! however I kept monitoring my account and the transaction was not credited to my account  until 13.47 and later that evening they bounced 2 cheques ,even though I had lodged more than sufficient funds to cover,what sort of technology do they use ,


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## Palerider (11 Mar 2018)

Why did you not lodge with a cashier, you knew the cheques were on the way as you wrote them a couple of days previously, you left it very late and appear to have relied on the machine, it does appear as if the actual time was one hour ahead based on your receipt which it should not be of course.

I cannot comment if you are credited at the time you use the machine but would think the cash needs to be verified, perhaps somebody familiar with this could comment.

It may not be related to their technology.


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## cremeegg (11 Mar 2018)

cremeegg said:


> Every time UB make a mistake, I make a complaint. Every time I receive compensation, I am well over €1,000 in compensation to date.



I made another complaint a few weeks ago. UB had written to me about an account, I telephoned to query the correspondence, sensible conversation with a woman who didn't know but would investigate and get back. Of course I didn't hear from her. I called again and spoke to another staff member. Same story.

Then I made a complaint. Got a BS letter asking for my DOB etc. I refused to supply. I got another reply saying the acct in question was closed. I emailed to ask why they were writing to me saying that the account was overdrawn if it was closed.

Then something weird happened. I got a telephone call from a woman who said that the account should have been closed two years ago but was not and fees had been charged every month since. She said she would refund the charges and close the account. I was so gobsmacked all I could say was, "thats fine".

At least one person in UB has a basic competence. She must be new. I hope its not the end of the compensation gravy mini train.


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## Ravima (20 Mar 2018)

I tried to send email to this address, but it bounced back as undeliverable. Can you repost the email address again please?


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## DeclanDublin (21 Mar 2018)

I had a problem doing an 'international transfer' on an UB savings account with online access and I used 'webchat' to resolve it, or so I hoped. What should have taken ten minutes lasted nearly 2 hours with the agent telling me to open up the page in different browsers and so on. All to no avail.  I phoned the following day, spoke to an actual UB banking person, and he resolved it in minutes. He told me that the webchat team are techie heads and not aware really of banking as such. I'll know where to go in future.


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## Bronco Lane (9 Apr 2018)

I ordered FX from my local Ulster Bank Branch. They said...order on Tuesday and we will have it on Thursday......we will give you a call when it arrives.
Thursday arrives and I call to my branch......I was told it hadn't arrived yet......don't worry we will call you when it arrives I am told.

Friday....no phone call.  Monday......no phone call.      I call down to my branch lunchtime on Monday and they have the currency. It was delivered to the branch the previous Thursday. 

I ask...why did I not receive the phone call as promised.......Oh! We were much too busy to do that is the response I get.

They are the pits...


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## elcato (9 Apr 2018)

Conversely I have used UB on College Green and always have no problem getting stuff done quickly. One case was transferring 200k+ from my account to my solicitor whois not with UB and it took no more than two minutes to make the transfer. I have also got large cash withdrawels over the counter no problem.


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## Ravima (9 Apr 2018)

Wrote to UB 2nd Feb with query. No response, so emailed the only email that I could find, which was complaints. Had a phone call from a named staff member who asked me to email the query to him on 27th March. Still no response!!


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## qwerty5 (9 Apr 2018)

elcato said:


> Conversely I have used UB on College Green and always have no problem getting stuff done quickly. One case was transferring 200k+ from my account to my solicitor whois not with UB and it took no more than two minutes to make the transfer. I have also got large cash withdrawels over the counter no problem.



That's not really conversely.
It would be extremely worrying if transfers and withdrawals were complicated for the staff.


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## honeybadger12 (12 Apr 2018)

Ulster Bank are a bunch of cowboys!


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## elcato (12 Apr 2018)

qwerty5 said:


> That's not really conversely.
> It would be extremely worrying if transfers and withdrawals were complicated for the staff.


Well the thread has descended into a list of examples of incompetency of UB staff. We have no idea how bad they were and have to assume that the story teller was right and the staff were wrong. I just thought I'd balance it a bit.


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