# Considering a "do-er" upper rather than buying a house thats ready: pros and cons



## Odessa (23 Apr 2012)

Considering a "do-er" upper rather than buying a house that is ready to move into. The facts are as follows:
- Have €550,000 to spend (€450,000 mortgage/€100,000 equity).
- Could buy a house for €525,000 leaving the rest for stamp duty, legals and light refurblishment.
- Alternatively, considering buying a house for €400,000 that needs to be gutted/extended
Has anyone done anything like this? Is €100 per sq ft a good rule of thumb
I'm not a builder (or good at DIY!) so would need to employ architect / QS.
Thanks


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## lowCO2design (23 Apr 2012)

if i may say that's a health budget at the moment and if your budget matches your tastes, I'd suggest that the 'ball park sqft figures you get will rise..

why not approach a local architect/arch tech - once they know what you want and can prepare a few outlines sketches/specification they can involve a QS


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## Odessa (23 Apr 2012)

Thanks. I'd be interested to get your views on the concept of taking on a "project"....some people say I should run a mile from it due to the time required, cost overruns etc.


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## Bronte (23 Apr 2012)

It will take a lot of blood sweat and tears but can be worth it. Only you can make that call. There are always problems and always cost overruns. A good builder should ease a lot of the stress.  A good builder is half the battle.  Of course if you do it yourself (manage the build) you save on the builder's profits.


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## threebedsemi (23 Apr 2012)

Odessa
It’s a pretty wide open question, without knowing exactly what types of properties you are looking at, but a few general points would be as follows: 
Some of the problems with buying a ‘ready to move into’ house are as follows:
- Unless you have access to heating and ESB bills for the property for the past few years, you really do not know anything about the houses running costs. Do not assume that a house that has a ‘B3’ or an ‘A3’ energy rating is actually going to perform to anything like that in reality. The majority of houses have a much lower performance than their BER cert would lead you to believe.
- Unless you have access to the property throughout the day, it can be difficult to read how the sun and natural light will affect the house from morning to evening. 
- You will be far less likely to spend additional money to ‘put your own stamp’ on a home which is already spic and span and has adequate room, even if the layout is not suitable for your needs.
- Likewise, the decor, fittings and fixtures may not be to your taste, but there will understandably be a reluctance to splash out additional money when there is nothing actually ‘wrong’ with the existing.

On the other hand, if you see a house that you are happy with in relation to the above, and in the right location, buy it and enjoy it.
It may seen paradoxical, but if you are considering a ‘doer-upper’, the worse the condition of the existing house, the more scope you have to 'get it right' when doing it up. This is particularly the case if you are considering upgrading to a high degree of energy efficiency and air tightness, as a good deal of ‘gutting’ is generally required to carry out the works successfully. 
The general procedure in this case are as follows:
- Have a condition survey carried out by an experienced consultant, which will point out any issues with regard to the existing building (damp/mould, asbestos, areas of structural concern, etc.)
- Have a walk around the house. Take your time, imagine your family living in it as it is now with regard to layout, room sizes and locations, daylight, etc.
- Decide if you would like to extend or considerable remodel the interior of the house to better suit your needs.
- If so, have a chat with a few architects, and prior to this read the threads on top of this section of the site relating to ‘what to ask the architect’. 
- It is difficult for anyone to offer an exact price for building works without these works being carefully defined, but a Quantity Surveyor would be able to over you a ballpark based on the floor area of the house. You can still pay 5k or 50k for a kitchen, after all...

Some further info regarding architects is available here:
http://www.riai.ie/consumer_services/working_with_an_architect/
A good architect (coupled with a good energy consultant if desired) appointed to provide a full service, is the best first step you can take to ensure that costs are kept in check and that you get the house you want at the end of the process. Allow for a QS cost plan at final design stage, and perhaps QS input into the tender process as well. 
The best second step you can take, is to appoint a good contractor from a range selected to tender for the project, with the contract sum and construction period clearly defined.

www.studioplustwo.com


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## Odessa (23 Apr 2012)

Thanks for the good advice above. Energy efficiency isn't something that I particularly considered. Useful to note that the worse the house the better.


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## Shawady (23 Apr 2012)

Odessa, The advantage of doing up a house rather than buying a new one is you have more control over how it looks. I have seen people buy houses in great condition and then go and rip out kitchen or bathroom etc.
If you buy a house that needs a bit of work at least you are choosing the things that suit your taste in the house.
€400K is a good sum in the present climate and having got an extension done two years ago, I would say that €100K would go a long way to renovate or extend a house.


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## lowCO2design (23 Apr 2012)

Odessa said:


> Thanks. I'd be interested to get your views on the concept of taking on a "project"....some people say I should run a mile from it due to the time required, cost overruns etc.


(I'm an Arch Tech and do this type of work regularly)

As others have pointed out, don't underestimate the workload and stress, if you take on this type of project. I've a client at the moment who from day one wanted minimum involvement, but even at that there are still a lot of decisions, some compromises and the odd hurdle to be addressed and solved. 

My advice is sit down and decide how much of this you want to do yourself. If you've got the spare time to run this project do it yourself as for some its really enjoyable, but there will be many a day time hour and the hassle + a generally elongated self-builder program is not for everyone... If this is not for you, consider hiring a good team to run the job for you starting with an Architect/ arch technician and with their help get a good team around you to carry and buffer the project your behalf

best of luck with whatever you decide

have a read of the following 
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[broken link removed]

there a good start on best practice for retro-fitting/ extending


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## wbbs (23 Apr 2012)

From the bank's point of view there is greater risk as practically all projects like this will run over budget with the risk that house would not be finished and you would be unable to borrow more so banks  security would be not as good as finished house.   Always a nightmare trying to accurately price something like this.


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## lowCO2design (24 Apr 2012)

wbbs said:


> From the bank's point of view there is greater risk as practically all projects like this will run over budget with the risk that house would not be finished and you would be unable to borrow more so banks  security would be not as good as finished house.   Always a nightmare trying to accurately price something like this.


are you sure its more difficult to get extra money to fix-up a house, as opposed to getting a new build mortgage?


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