# David Hall challenged on his forecast of a tsunami of repossessions



## Brendan Burgess (5 Jul 2019)

Gavin Jennings really challenged David Hall on Morning Ireland the other day.  It's well worth listening to. I have not seen him being challenged to this extent before. 









						RTÉ Radio
					






					www.rte.ie
				




Jennings: "you have made this warning before:
January 2014 you were predicting a tsunami of repossessions that year
Sept 2014 again in the Indo
jan 2015 " a massive ways of family homes being seized"
Dec 2016 predicting tsunami of repossessions on the way
Dec 2017 a tsunami that I and others warned about is actually here
May 2018 - a tsunami is heading down the tracks if an alternative is not found - you told a Dail committee
And here we are again in July 2019..."

you have been predicting a tsunami of repossessions for 5 years now - has it happened yet?

Hall: History will determine who is right. but I can guarantee you one thing - at least a Croke Park full of people will lose their homes

Jennings: How many repossessions have there been in the 5 years  you have been making those predictions

Jennings: 3,300

Gavin: Would you describe that as a tsunami? 

Hall : If you were one of the people affected, it was a tsunami. And it depends on your definition of a tsunami. 

Jennings: A large wave


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## Leo (5 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Jennings: A large wave



I love it!


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## Sarenco (5 Jul 2019)

David Hall's scaremongering is tedious at this stage -








						David Hall’s ‘tsunami’ talk is worst kind of scaremongering
					

Majority of repossessions are by banks not vulture funds and rate is falling




					www.irishtimes.com
				




There are roughly 28,000 mortgages where payments have not been made in over six years.  Six years!!


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Jul 2019)

Sarenco said:


> There are roughly 28,000 mortgages where payments have not been made in over six years. Six years!!



Hi Sarenco

That figure was not in the article you quoted. It was in another article and it was a typo and has been corrected. 

We don't have the data on payment history.

I suspect that the 28,000 figure is the number of _accounts _over two years in arrears  which is completely different from
the number of borrowers
who have paid nothing
in over 6 years.

Brendan


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## Sarenco (5 Jul 2019)

That's right Brendan, the stats relate to the number of mortgages, not borrowers, in arrears.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (5 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I suspect that the 28,000 figure is the number of _accounts _over two years in arrears  which is completely different from
> the number of borrowers
> who have paid nothing
> in over 6 years.
> ...



Yes. If you have paid nothing between 2010 and 2012 (for example) and then returned to making full repayments ever since (without any formal restructuring) then your mortgage is still in the category of arrears of two years or more.


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## Sarenco (5 Jul 2019)

Well, they are only "full repayments" if you ignore the arrears!


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## noproblem (5 Jul 2019)

Are people saying that what David Hall predicts will never come to pass? Is it any wonder that there's people out there who don't like paying back what they borrow?


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## Dazzler123 (5 Jul 2019)

noproblem said:


> Are people saying that what David Hall predicts will never come to pass? Is it any wonder that there's people out there who don't like paying back what they borrow?




I think you could confidently predict that there will not be any tsunamis.   That would require making it simpler to obtain a posession order when the reality is that legislation passed this week to make it even more difficult to get a possesion order


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## noproblem (5 Jul 2019)

There's an awful lot of people in this country who think they're entitled to almost everything without payment. It's like a disease and getting worse by the day. No, i'm not generalising either and make no apology for saying that.


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Jul 2019)

Mick Heaney did a good review of the programme in today's Irish Times 

_On Wednesday, the news that Ulster Bank is selling off more than 3,000 non-performing mortgages leads to a heated exchange between presenter Gavin Jennings and David Hall of the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation. Hall is alarmed by the prospect of vulture funds owning more mortgages, saying they have no interest in restructuring the loans of indebted homeowners. “This is where the tsunami begins,” he says.

Maybe so, but as Jennings reminds his guest, it’s not his first prediction of such a catastrophe. The presenter lists off seven occasions that Hall has warned of a metaphorical tidal wave since 2014. “You’ve been predicting a tsunami of repossessions for five years, has it happened yet?” Jennings asks tartly. A testy argument ensues, on whether the 3,000-plus repossessions so far made constitute a tsunami, with Hall doubling down on his use of the term while accusing his host of taking “potshots”.

Hall might be accused of alarmism in his forecast of mass repossessions, but his talk of tidal waves is certainly ill-judged: an actual tsunami, after all, can leave hundreds of thousands dead. (His other metric, “a Croke Park full of people”, is more appropriate and has more impact.) But diverting as this grilling is, it also underscores another point that Jennings refers to, albeit more briefly: the absence of anyone from a bank or vulture fund to answer questions as Hall does. Just because someone cries wolf doesn’t mean there aren’t any around._


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## noproblem (7 Jul 2019)

It's easy for people to interview David Hall and others to say that Hall got a grilling. Hall has put his opinion out there and it's based on his theory that Vultures are in the game for one thing only, ie, take possession and sell. Is anyone saying he's wrong, did the interviewer say what he thought the Vultures were buying the properties for? No, that wouldn't be good radio or tv or whatever. Just shoot the messenger and be done. Everyone who's involved in the game of being in arrears will love the interviewer, so will their families and friends. They want restructuring, change loan agreements, make it easier, defer paying their debt, call it what you want it's playing with figures, juggling the books and calling it accountancy or whatever At the end of the day though it doesn't mean David Hall isn't right?


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Jul 2019)

David Hall is completely wrong on so many issues relating to family homes and vulture funds.
1) He has been forecasting a tsunami since 2011 and that is nonsense. I wish he were right. There should be a dramatic increase in repossessions.
2) He says that there is no such thing as strategic defaulters.  In a country with widespread insurance fraud, widespread tax and social welfare fraud, widespread ignoring of the rules of the road, how come there are no irresponsible borrowers out there?
3) We have the best protected home loan owners in the world.  It doesn't matter if you are a bank or a vulture fund, you will find it next to impossible to get the family home unless the borrower wants to surrender it.
4) The Central Bank has studied the lenders and found that there is little difference between the lenders and the vulture funds in the treatment of home owners in arrears.  I have seen appalling behaviour by the banks - has David not seen this?   Séamus Coffey's figures about the number of court proceedings back this up.  Given the increased sales to vulture funds, one would expect many more legal proceedings. They have halved over the last few years.
5) The Vulture Funds have done more mortgage to rent than the mainstream mortgage lenders despite having much fewer mortgages.
6) He says that we will have a Croke Park full of homeless people.  Even if they are repossessed, why should they be homeless? Most of them have plenty of equity in their homes and will be able to rent.
7) 120,000 mortgages have been restructured compared to about 3,000 (?)  being repossessed by court order and 10,000 in total between repossession and voluntary surrender.

And this is a very serious issue.  People are paralysed with fear when they hear that their loan has been sold.  The politicians push stupid legislation though the Dail based on a false analysis of the problem. And the result... the opposite of what the OP says in this thread: More repossessions will not lead to lower mortgage rates 

But you are right noproblem, that sort of analysis is not done on the radio or television which much prefers David Hall's bluster.

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> 6) He says that we will have a Croke Park full of homeless people.  Even if they are repossessed, why should they be homeless?
> *Most of them have plenty of equity in their homes* and will be able to rent.



This point cannot be stressed enough.

Terry O'Malley in the Central Bank did a paper on this last year. Look at table 1.



The sample is only for owner occupiers in arrears *of two years or more*. Of this group the average mortgage holder has an LTV of 90%, an age of 49 and 15 years remaining on the mortgage. This does not look particularly unsustainable to me.


A quarter of this group have a property valued LTV of 24% or less, a property worth €176k or less, a rate of 1.2% or less and a monthly instalment of €440 or less. This is a completely sustainable mortgage even for a family on benefits and will pay for itself immediately if rented out. These people are only in arrears for two years or more because they know that the legal system is borrower friendly and lending is much cheaper than an overdraft or a credit card.


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Jul 2019)

Hi NRC 

A very interesting, if confusing table. 

They should be a series of separate tables as each column, does not represent one group.  For example, the 90th percentile is not a 62 year old with a €361k mortgage and an arrears balance of €129k who is on an interest rate of 4.9%. 



25% of all borrowers have an LTV of less than 50%. So if they are repossessed, they will have plenty of money to pay rent. 

About 30% are in negative equity.  Or were in negative equity 18 months ago. 

House prices and capital payments would have brought this figure down to about 20% by now. 

_These data are a snapshot of all outstanding mortgages at the five main banks, _

So they excluded the non-bank lenders which presumably would have worse figures.   The sample 2 years in arrears or more with banks would probably be more sustainable than the sample two years in arrears or more  with non-banks.

But the overall point is true.  The majority of those over two years in arrears are in positive equity.

Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jul 2019)

@Brendan Burgess

Indeed, it would be more useful to sort them into five buckets and provide the median for each bucket.

Still it's more information than I have ever heard any Irish journalist or broadcaster referring to.

Your point about banks vs non-banks is correct, but at the same time the sample *excludes *the half or so of mortgages by number which are in arrears of *below *2 years. If you included these you would find that a substantial majority of mortgages in arrears have an LTV below 100%.


The UK doesn't report mortgage arrears by length, only by arrears as a share of the outstanding balance. Look [broken link removed]. Of the 9 million owner-occupier mortgages in the UK a microscopic 24k have an arrears balance of 10% or more. Less than 1% are in arrears at all, as defined as an arrears balance of >=2.5%.


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## Bronte (8 Jul 2019)

What percentage of strategic defaulters go to David Hall. Does he do statistics on the people he deals with.


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Jul 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> If you included these you would find that a substantial majority of mortgages in arrears have an LTV below 100%.



Very good point. So we can say 

"About 75% of those over two years in arrears are in positive equity.  Probably about 90% of those less than 2 years in arrears are in positive equity".

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (8 Jul 2019)

Bronte said:


> What percentage of strategic defaulters go to David Hall.



I suspect that most of the irresponsible borrowers don't go anywhere.  Those who do might to places like the Hub. 

But some must go to the IMHO.  



Brendan


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Very good point. So we can say
> 
> "About *75% of those over two years in arrears are in positive equity*.  Probably about 90% of those less than 2 years in arrears are in positive equity".
> 
> Brendan



Not quite. The 50th centile is 91% LTV and 75th centile is 120% LTV. I'd say positive equity is around the 60th centile mark. That said house prices have gone up in the 18 months since the sample referred to, so something touching 70% is ballpark.


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## Sarenco (11 Jul 2019)

David Hall now predicts 20,000 repossessions over the next six years.









						David Hall predicts 20,000 Irish homes will be repossessed over next six years
					

Mortgage advocate says level of repossession would be driven by vulture funds who are buying up distressed loans from banks




					www.irishtimes.com


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Jul 2019)

Interesting. 20,000 over 6 years is hardly a tsunami.  With 600,000 mortgages in total in the country, 3,000 a year would probably be a reasonable "normal" level of repossession. 

I estimate that there are about 7,000 legal proceedings in the system. 
About 20% of these end in orders for possession, so, say around 2,000 which would be 1,000 this year and 1,000 next year. 

It is not possible to have a tsunami of repossessions. 
It is technically possible to have a tsunami of _legal proceedings.  _
The lenders could probably lodge 40,000 legal proceedings though I suspect that they don't have the resources to even draft this number of proceedings. 
The courts, the arrears teams and the legal teams would not be able to process them, so there would be delays between adjournments of around a year each time. 

However, there has been an 80% fall in legal proceedings initiated  since 2014.  That could indicate a backlog or it could indicate that lenders realise that these proceedings are very slow, very expensive and pretty pointless. 



Brendan


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## Leper (11 Jul 2019)

A couple setting out in life pour all their savings and scrimp to buy a house. Their life is put on hold and they try to pay the mortgage every month. Their life is determined by what is left over after paying the mortgage. I remember paying interest rate of 19.75% to AIB Home Loans. If that happened these days there would be a revolution. Back in the day interest rates rose nearly every month . We gave up holidays, parked the car in the garage, shopped from meal to meal, begged for overtime at work, worked in part-time jobs that few would do, ignored Christmas and revived the old bike which was a life saver and under no circumstances turned on the immersion. In a nutshell we busted our butts to an extent at sometimes life appeared to be not worth living (I don't say this lightly). Miss a mortgage payment and the bank were on your case in a flash threatening you with eviction, demanding return of your cheque book and generally making you feel like you were a leech of society.

In the meantime local authorities handed out homes like confetti to many who faked earnings etc and later offered these properties for sale to the same tenants at a fraction of their value . Eventually, the banks handed out huge loans that never had a snowball's chance in hell of being repaid. The price of property rocketed and very soon many found themselves in negative equity. The financial crash came and the banks cried like a two year old dispossessed of a licked lolly pop.

From where I sit David Hall is representing many who abide by the rules and for some reason or other just could not keep up loan repayments. I am not talking about the people who bought to let or such like and never repaid a penny; these are scroungers. But, there must be some middle ground where people who tried their best to pay can be facilitated without being condemned to penury.

It is very easy to sit pontificating about others on the high moral ground  and many think they will never see a poor day. Life is strange and none of us can see too far ahead.


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## noproblem (11 Jul 2019)

Good man Leper, none can see too far ahead, but an awful lot thought they could see everything regardless of distance and jumped on the bandwagon. Bandwagon ran out of diesel and now they won't pay at the pumps to refill. A good long walk won't do some of them any harm at all and I bet they'll measure the distance next time.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Jul 2019)

Leper said:


> From where I sit David Hall is representing many who abide by the rules and for some reason or other just could not keep up loan repayments. I am not talking about the people who bought to let or such like and never repaid a penny; these are scroungers. But, there must be some middle ground where people who tried their best to pay can be facilitated without being condemned to penury.



Hi Leper 

Very interesting post. 

I have always advocated that the borrowers who are in trouble but who are engaging deserve protection and help.

I have strongly, if unsuccessfully lobbied, that the Housing Assistance Payment - HAP - should be extended to helping mortgage holders 
 who would qualify for social housing, who can't afford their mortgage. I don't see why we pay renters but not home owners. 

But I want to see the thousands of people who pay very little and who duck and dive, repossessed quickly.  Now, to my astonishment, David Hall is calling for it too: Wow! Hall: We need legislation to accelerate repossessions of those who don't engage within three months 

I have also criticised the Central Bank rules for forcing the banks to sell NPLs. 

But I have no problem at all with the banks selling the thousands of mortgages of those who don't pay. 

David Hall does great work, but he makes these wild statements about tsunamis of repossessions and the bullying and harassment by vulture funds which really scares the life out of people.  Not only does this scaremongering really cause great distress, it causes the politicians to make stupid policies instead of focussing on legislation which would help people, for example 

controlling mortgage rates or banning cash back 
extending HAP to mortgage holders 
Obliging vulture funds to offer the same mortgage rates which the selling bank offers 
Instead of analysis, we have shouting matches. 

Brendan


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## The Horseman (12 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Leper
> 
> Very interesting post.
> 
> ...



When the HAP payment is paid to mortgage holders does the State get shared ownership of the property. What about the person who bought an identical house at the same time in the same location but is meeting their mortgage obligations without any help. 

If the State does not get something back from this you then have a situation where two separate properties were bought at the same time in the same place. At the end of the mortgage one party has paid more than the other (as they will receive HAP subsidy) but yet both parties end up with the same value property. How is this fair? 

This again goes against those who do the right thing and get screwed again!


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Jul 2019)

The Horseman said:


> When the HAP payment is paid to mortgage holders does the State get shared ownership of the property.



Hi Horseman 

I don't want to take this thread off topic, so I have set out my full proposals here: 
Bring back Mortgage Interest Supplement 

In short, as they do in the UK, any Mortgage Assistance would be repayable on the sale of the house.

Brendan


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## The Horseman (12 Jul 2019)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Hi Horseman
> 
> I don't want to take this thread off topic, so I have set out my full proposals here:
> Bring back Mortgage Interest Supplement
> ...




Fair enough


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## Leper (12 Jul 2019)

1. In my later working days as an unpaid trade union rep there wasn't a month went by without some member approaching me looking for advice regarding mortgage repayments and arrears. Their biggest concerns were (a) The bank were not engaging (b) The amounts of arrears were increasing (c) Letters were arriving regarding threats of eviction, penalties etc.

2. These people paid what they could and showed me receipts of payment, letters from the banks and written summaries of telephone calls from the banks point-of-view. You could not include such people in the "won't pay anything brigade."

3. In the recession negative equity set in and people owned houses that were worth less than what was left to pay. Even the banks knew repossession was a bad deal and somewhat laid off on their customers.
,
4. Property prices jumped again after the recession. Suddenly, the banks were on to this like locusts and (i) Repossessions were once again an option for them (ii) Selling off any loans in arrears to a Vulture Fund. Repossessions were always considered bad news and so the Vulture Fund has become the easier option.

5. I bet that the Vulture Funds took possession of the outstanding loans quite cheaply. Therefore, I see no reason why the banks could not engage with their customers more favourably. I am not saying that loans should be written off. But, even a Leper without financial qualifications (or for the record no qualifications whatsoever) can see that there are options e.g. extending the term of the loan. I can think of more options too.

6. Is David Hall scaremongering? No, he's not. He is saying what he believes and he says it well. Then a certain person says that people in arrears are better off dealing with Vulture Funds (described as "rubbish" by David Hall). I agree with him. I predict that repossessions will become more widespread too.

7. How many people committed suicide because of the behaviour of the banks? How many people self-harmed while trying to take their own lives? The answer is we don't know, but thinking these did not happen is crazy. There isn't a house in the country worth a drop of blood, let alone suicide. Lose sight of this and you might as well take out shares in a Vulture Fund.

8. I have no sympathy whatsoever with people who took out loans and just refused to repay anything. But you see, the banks have a major problem here. They gave out the loan and nothing is coming back in their direction. Eventually, the banks will crawl to these mortgagees and perhaps settle for something rather than nothing. The cannon fodder are those genuine people that try to pay as much as they can afford. It appears the bank is treating them with contempt by not entering into worthwhile negotiations.

9. Do we need David Hall? Yes we do. He is filling a need created by the banks. The banks can only blame themselves for the emergence of David Hall.

10. You're earning well, you're in line for promotion, your bonus payments are always on track, life is good etc etc. Can these change? - Yes they can and considerably faster than you think. You don't know when misfortune will hit you. Your job can cease, somebody can get seriously ill, divorce can happen etc etc. Who can say that none of these will happen? If they do happen, can you afford to keep paying the mortgage?

11. When the banks need to increase their profits, they can come up with plans. I'm sure even they can come up with something to assist genuine defaulters with mortgage repayments. Even I can offer some solutions, so can they, if they wish.


The Bottom Line here is we need the banks to engage with its customers. Anything else is a disaster.


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## Dazzler123 (12 Jul 2019)

Leper said:


> 1. In my later working days as an unpaid trade union rep there wasn't a month went by without some member approaching me looking for advice regarding mortgage repayments and arrears. Their biggest concerns were (a) The bank were not engaging (b) The amounts of arrears were increasing (c) Letters were arriving regarding threats of eviction, penalties etc.
> 
> 2. These people paid what they could and showed me receipts of payment, letters from the banks and written summaries of telephone calls from the banks point-of-view. You could not include such people in the "won't pay anything brigade."
> 
> ...




But the banks have engaged and options have been availed of in their tens if not hundreds of thousands...

These include term extensions, interest rate reductions, writeoffs, split mortgages, pia's, bringing another borrower in, moratoriums on payments and multitudes of other arrangements. 

Those who will engage have done. What is left are those that will not engage or will not play fair by reneging on agreements, or not being fully truthful about their income and/or assets.


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## Leper (13 Jul 2019)

From Palerider (a good poster on this forum)  written 8th March 2019 on another thread:-

"I have mediated between debtors and vultures, it is not pleasant, I have no interest in doing so ever again.

Some observations...

A. Where they have good security they hold out for full repayment.
B. They are very slow to engage with the legal process, it takes them years in most cases before they might go into Court.
C. Their business model is not working in Ireland, the legal system is cumbersome, slow and expensive, the protections for debtors in most cases such as this one allow procrastination.
D. The legal profession are the winners as are the Auctioneering houses especially those that specialise in distressed sales.

Still, this case surprised me and will frighten vultures away from this country, vultures are necessary to have a functioning banking system and this high profile case is counter productive to the needs of the country."


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Jul 2019)

Leper
You are missing the point completely.

The banks have restructured 120,000 mortgages.   They didn't do this through not engaging with their clients. 

Of course, there are cases where the banks have not engaged properly. I see it all the time. But they have engaged often enough to restructure 120,000 mortgages. 

And be absolutely clear, if you have a client who is engaging with their bank and paying something meaningful, and the bank won't engage with them, but seeks a repossession, the bank hasn't got a hope in hell of succeeding. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Aug 2022)

Now he appears to be disappointed about the lack of court action and repossessions!









						State is well behind target on its home rentals scheme as mortgage lenders in arrears are ‘paying nothing’
					

People in deep mortgage arrears are not putting themselves forward for a State-backed scheme that allows them to stay in their homes as renters – because they are getting away with paying nothing, it is claimed.




					www.independent.ie
				




_Mortgage campaigner David Hall said the Government was behind on its target for the mortgage-to-rent scheme because homeowners in financial distress do not see any realistic risk that their homes will be repossessed.

“There are virtually no repossession proceedings at the moment. So why would people in arrears be persuaded to give up ownership of their home to become renters when they are paying nothing?" he said.
...
He estimates up to 6,000 people in long-term arrears were paying nothing to the lenders, so are living rent free._


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Aug 2022)

And it turns out that the vulture funds are his best mates: 

_ But Mr Hall said banks and those in long-term arrears were reluctant to do mortgage-to-rent deals. Most of the deals being done are with credit service firms that act for vulture funds._


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## Purple (2 Aug 2022)

This hasn't changed my opinion of Mr. Hall. I never took him seriously.


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## deanpark (3 Aug 2022)

IMHO got me a great deal when I was in arrears and then the EBS were proved to be overcharging on my BTL so they had to pay out for that too  - Mr Hall is the bee's knees to me and 1000s of others. A man of action not an AAM keyboard warrior.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2022)

Hi dean

He has done great work and I have recommended the IMHO to many people.

However, his scaremongering about tsunamis and his vilification of vulture funds, has done huge damage. 

And it has resulted in terrible policies such as the Mortgage to Rent Scheme. 

Brendan


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## deanpark (3 Aug 2022)

On the whole the work he has done and the transformative nature of his work for *ordinary people * pitted against the banks far outweighs any less positive aspects. None of us are perfect. You could equally say the banks, the govt, the ECB, the troika , the builders did huge damage as well as him  - that's the realpolitik.  Hall is is in the ha'penny place of damage creation than those above.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 Aug 2022)

Hi dean

Don't underestimate the damage he has done with the scaremongering.  People have been scared out of their wits by his forecasts that they were going to lose their homes in a tsunami of repossessions.

He is also partly responsible for the very high mortgage rates which people are paying by his campaigning against repossession.  

And at the same time, I give him credit for the thousands he has helped to negotiate deals with their lenders.

Brendan


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## Purple (4 Aug 2022)

deanpark said:


> IMHO got me a great deal when I was in arrears and then the EBS were proved to be overcharging on my BTL so they had to pay out for that too  - Mr Hall is the bee's knees to me and 1000s of others. A man of action not an AAM keyboard warrior.


He's great at that sort of stuff but he thinks that qualifies him to comment on broader economic issues. In that he has been shown to be monumentally wrong.


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## Purple (4 Aug 2022)

deanpark said:


> On the whole the work he has done and the transformative nature of his work for *ordinary people * pitted against the banks far outweighs any less positive aspects.


What's an ordinary person?


deanpark said:


> You could equally say the banks, the govt, the ECB, the troika , the builders did huge damage as well as him  - that's the realpolitik.  Hall is is in the ha'penny place of damage creation than those above.


The Troika and the Governments that followed the crash have generally done a good job, realpolitik considering. David Hall make scaremongering predictions, based from on nothing what I can see, and that has resulted in hundreds of million in bad spending by the government and hundreds of million in higher mortgage repayments by younger, possibly ordinary, people.


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## Leo (5 Aug 2022)

Purple said:


> What's an ordinary person?


The small minority who benefited from deals, not the majority of us who are paying higher mortgage rates.


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## lff12 (18 Aug 2022)

Leo said:


> The small minority who benefited from deals, not the majority of us who are paying higher mortgage rates.


Exactly - I think Hall has been a good advocate for those with arrears, but the crux for me is that many of his ideas & plans are hugely costly & only help a very tiny few. 6000 owner occupiers is not a lot when you consider that there are 720,000 PDH mortgages out there. And the costs of that 6000 get passed to the bulk of that 714,000 mortgage holders, including a good number of the 47,000 who are in arrears, and about 66000 restructured, many whom are bearing the cost of subsidising the minority that are not paying, in IMHO arrangements, or other favourable restructured arrangements.
And it also incidentally, hasn't benefited tenants, as many BTL mortgages got short shrift compared to OO mortgage holders, at the expense of their tenants who were subjected to changes of owner or eviction for sales - who are probably paying even more than average mortgage holders.


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