# Do We Have A Case Against Landlord or Council?



## Wishes (26 Aug 2010)

This is quite a long story so I'll try and keep it short.  A couple of years ago I had the misfortunate experience of witnessing an arson attack on a property I was staying at.  To say that night I thought I was going to die is an understatement.  

Forensics were called in and removed evidence.  This was a couple of years ago and we never heard anything back; no outcome of the evidence they found or whether anyone was caught for it.

We had to pick up the pieces of our lives and move on.  I have spend the past couple of years looking over my shoulder, double checking are all doors locked in my home and living on my nerves.

My friend went on to sell the property for far less than what it was worth all because they were terrified of a repercussion.  They since lost their job and refuse to discuss what happened whereas I’m looking to start talking about it now.

I’ve done some investigating myself and asked neighbors what they can remember of the night in question and did anyone see anything out of the ordinary.  
  The neighbors have said they seen nothing but every cat and dog on the street knows who did it.  Apparently the people who supposedly tried to burn us out have a violent past and have done time for murder. 

The Gardai have also said that these people are prime suspects for the attack on us. 

The people who supposedly done it were renting in the area and receiving rent allowance.  They just terrorised innocent people for kicks but of course I personally do not have proof it was these people only from what I have heard.

Will justice ever be served in the courts or do I have to walk around looking over my shoulder with a friend who undersold a property to escape from further attacks?  It just doesn’t seem fair.

We have been told we have no case against the landlord who was renting the property or the council because there were no arrests made but the landlord had been informed before the attack on us that these people were threatening other people in the area and was asked to end her lease agreement with these people as they were deemed dangerous but she had refused.

Surely something can be done as these people were prime suspects by the Gardai and were under surveillance?


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## Billo (26 Aug 2010)

Let the guards deal with it. That's their job.


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## huskerdu (26 Aug 2010)

It is unfair that a crime was committed against you and no-one was brought to justice and it has badly affected your life. You have no choice but to try to get on with your life and recover from this experience and I wish you well with this. 

I dont know why the Gardai have not persued this case. Is it possible for you to find otu more about this decision, if you think this would help you come to terms with what happened.. 

But, I can't see how you would have a case to sue the council or the landlord.
I assume you mean their landlord. It would be a sad day for Irish society if you could be sued if your tenants committed a crime that had nothing to do with you because
 you refused to evict them, even if they are nasty people,or if a local authority could be sued because someone on rent allowance committed a crime. 

You need to ask yourself why trying to get money in the courts from the landlord would be helpful to you and try to get your life back.


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## Wishes (26 Aug 2010)

Thanks guys for responding.

Deep down I know that there is no come back with the landlord or council.  It's not really a case of looking for money I just want to see somebody brought through the legal system for this.  It seems everyone knew how dangerous these people were but us.  

The Gardai were sympathetic about the situation but seemed to want us to drop the case for our own benefit as the people who attacked us hold grudge.


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## becky (26 Aug 2010)

Sorry to hear about what a horrible sisuation. From what you're saying, there isn't enough to bring this to court, dogs on the street are no use as witnesses. Would justice being served help, I often wonder about this. It seems to me you need now need some sort of closure. Would you consider some type of counselling?


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## JoeB (26 Aug 2010)

Convicting violent criminals is very difficult, not just in Ireland, but worldwide, as only a few exceptionally brave people are prepared to testify in open court. 

The law needs to be changed. But there are fundamental rights at stake and it isn't easily done. But if the alternative is to do nothing and to allow violent criminals to get away with crimes,.. well, that's unacceptable too. 

It's very difficult.


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## Wishes (27 Aug 2010)

Becky, counselling was something I never really thought about.  I was so fixated on the idea that the Guards would gather a case together but that never happened.    



JoeBallantin said:


> The law needs to be changed. But there are fundamental rights at stake and it isn't easily done. But if the alternative is to do nothing and to allow violent criminals to get away with crimes,.. well, that's unacceptable too.



Joe, absolutely, I also think it brings up debate of whether people should be told that violent criminals are living among them.  Our lives were almost snuffed out by someones wise decision to place these people amongst us.


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## JoeB (27 Aug 2010)

Well, everyone has to live somewhere. So I can't see how the landlord or the council could be held responsible. Even if they were convicted of this attack and sent to prison, once they got out they'd again have the right to live where they want.

Was the attack aimed at you? Did you do anything to provoke it or was it completely unprovoked?


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## Complainer (27 Aug 2010)

Wishes said:


> Joe, absolutely, I also think it brings up debate of whether people should be told that violent criminals are living among them.  Our lives were almost snuffed out by someones wise decision to place these people amongst us.


Sorry to hear about your very difficult past experiences, but this is nonsense. To suggest that councils or landlords would be expected to predict and be liable for the future behaviour of their tenants is ludicrous.


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## JoeB (27 Aug 2010)

The only real solution that might be workable is special courts, with no juries, and witnesses give evidence in private, to the judge or judges, and cross examination is not allowed. This might be workable.

The government should try it.. most people probably wouldn't mind if their rights were reduced as it wouldn't affect most people.. but there would still be massive objections to such a change. 

Another solution might be more undercover Gardai.. Gardai are brave enough, nearly by definition, to provide evidence in open court. But even Guards have families.


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## Wishes (27 Aug 2010)

The attack was completely unprovoked.  They got their kicks from terrorising people and have a history of being evicted from different premises.  

Complainer, people pleaded with the landlord to end her lease with these tenants as it was felt they were going to cause serious harm to somebody; she refused.  It was also mentioned that they were stalking people in the area and also causing untold problems.  The Gardai were a permanent fixture at the address but yet the landlord refused to evict.  She tried to pass the blame onto the letting agent.


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## JoeB (27 Aug 2010)

The problem with this is that then they would simply have gone to live somewhere else, and then the process to evict them would begin again, in the new location.

There's no real solution, apart from people setting up cameras, getting barring orders, getting more evidence of breaches of the barring orders, etc etc.. not easy.


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## Dachshund (27 Aug 2010)

Wishes, you may find this page on the Garda Website helpful. It has contact details for victim support and a guide to being a witness in court. I would suggest that you try some of the contact numbers on that page and see what you can do about this incident.


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## AlbacoreA (27 Aug 2010)

Wishes said:


> The attack was completely unprovoked.  They got their kicks from terrorising people and have a history of being evicted from different premises.
> 
> Complainer, people pleaded with the landlord to end her lease with these tenants as it was felt they were going to cause serious harm to somebody; she refused.  It was also mentioned that they were stalking people in the area and also causing untold problems.  The Gardai were a permanent fixture at the address but yet the landlord refused to evict.  She tried to pass the blame onto the letting agent.



I assume the landlord didn't want them to re- direct their anger at her.

Besides its the Guards job.


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## redbhoy (31 Aug 2010)

The do-gooders wont agree but there is really only one way that people like the scumbags you mention will ever see Justice and it wont be at the hands of the Gardaí or the Legal system. But if you go down this route you will see 'justice' at the hands of the Gardaí and the Legal system (ironic isnt it?) for showing how easy their job could be done.


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