# Pro active ideas to stop this virus



## seamus m

I am opening a new thread in the hope that someone here can come up with proactive ideas to stop the spread  of virus  . I read one time a few years ago of a woman who was going to spend the next year of her life living in a 15 mile radius of her home in  that all her clothes would be bought all her food all her activities etc .She lived in country hence the distance. My thoughts are if everyone could use all this extra time more wisely to  1 plan their day around  trying to staying as close to their home as possible.ie make a list of closest services ,shops, chemist and doctors and try and use only them .Simple things like where possible I compromise ie if local supervalue don't have chicken I take mince not drive somewhere else for chicken.if queues to long in petrol station I don't tear somewhere else to next one etc etc .I find the nearest park for a walk if that's what I want to do ,not the most scenic one.Then at end of day I take 5 minutes and  keep diary of what I done today and who I met..
I believe this will help us localise the virus when found and also minimize risk to others.I am on my third day of this and so far haven't been any further than 3 miles from my house also in countryish .


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## Peanuts20

I can't understand why barbers and hairdressers are still open. Surely there is a bigger risk of someone catching it whilst getting your hair cut (and touched quite often) then standing a meter away from a person in the Dunnes till queue


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## odyssey06

Grafton Barbers have closed, I see some local hairdressers closed but there's been no general closure as far as I am aware.


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## odyssey06

As I live in an area which has a notified group warning, I am trying to avoid the very local shops... maybe that's paranoia 

I am trying to do one main shop a week, trying to avoid the busiest supermarkets \ busiest timeslots.
I am wiping down the trolley before use, at least the spots that I handle.


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## john luc

After you shop and arrive home wash your hands.


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## Firefly

odyssey06 said:


> I am trying to do one main shop a week



I tried to do this yesterday and I got looks from a lot of people that suggested, to me, that I was stock-piling...


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## odyssey06

Firefly said:


> I tried to do this yesterday and I got looks from a lot of people that suggested, to me, that I was stock-piling...



Wow... and then the thing it many ppl are now working from home, need more groceries than normal - more coffee, tea, milk, soap, toilet roll, lunches; whereas before we'd be in office weekdays.


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## seamus m

Alot I hear on English news is about ventilators and having them made. I don't see much on Irish news .Are parts made in Ireland ? I'm sure there there  are companies in Ireland that can put their hand to this . Are we trying to get more and what chance have we


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## RichInSpirit

Wear disposable nitrile gloves at times. I've seen some of the cashiers in a local supermarket doing this. Makes sense to me anyway.
Someone also optioned that cash is dirty stuff. It gets around. Not sure if the alternatives are better, cards, phones etc.


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## odyssey06

RichInSpirit said:


> Wear disposable nitrile gloves at times. I've seen some of the cashiers in a local supermarket doing this. Makes sense to me anyway.
> Someone also optioned that cash is dirty stuff. It gets around. Not sure if the alternatives are better, cards, phones etc.



Tapping with contactless card would be best although you can only do so for amounts under €30 I think, and after X transactions you have to enter PIN.
If paying for petrol try to have exact cash amount or tap.


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## tiv

Everything entering your home is potentially contaminated. Washing your hands after shopping isn't enough if you then handle contaminated products you've purchased. Consider removing external packages or wiping things down as you unpack.


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## john luc

seamus m said:


> Alot I hear on English news is about ventilators and having them made. I don't see much on Irish news .Are parts made in Ireland ? I'm sure there there  are companies in Ireland that can put their hand to this . Are we trying to get more and what chance have we


What I saw was typical showboating on the telly by the politician. It's the same kind of tripe talk used at Brexit time only this is really serious.


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## Marion

Ireland supplies 50% of ventilators worldwide. They are made in Galway.
Marion


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## SPC100

Wow - Is that true? What is the company name?

Edit - with link to IDA website
From IDA website

"As the second largest exporter of MedTech products in Europe, Ireland supplies 95 of the world’s top 100 countries (ranked by GDP). Over 25% of the world’s population that have diabetes rely on injection devices made in Ireland. *An impressive 50% of ventilators in acute hospitals worldwide are manufactured in Ireland*. While 33% of the global supply of contact lenses are made here. "


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## Marion

It is true. As you have since discovered by research.

We’ve got a leg up!

But, we need people who know how to use them. Training of relevant personnel is an imperative.

Marion


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## DeeKie

What’s a notified group warning and where are they posted up


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## DeeKie

odyssey06 said:


> As I live in an area which has a notified group warning, I am trying to avoid the very local shops... maybe that's paranoia
> 
> I am trying to do one main shop a week, trying to avoid the busiest supermarkets \ busiest timeslots.
> I am wiping down the trolley before use, at least the spots that I handle.


What’s a notified group warning and where are they posted up


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## seamus m

Singapore seems to have a lot of blow sprayers and machinery to fumigate everything with what I dont know but I don't see any here yet .O
I presume this is also something we should be at


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## odyssey06

DeeKie said:


> What’s a notified group warning and where are they posted up



If you remember the band practice in Dublin who all get contact letters, that was beside my local shops


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## DeeKie

odyssey06 said:


> If you remember the band practice in Dublin who all get contact letters, that was beside my local shops


What band practice? #confused


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## odyssey06

DeeKie said:


> What band practice? #confused











						Teenage band in Dublin urged to self-isolate after contact with Covid-19 patient
					

The measure is part of the contact tracing process in response to the first confirmed case.




					www.thejournal.ie


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## mathepac

A few facts on which to cogitate.

We cannot stop this virus, but we may, at best, slow the spread.​
We cannot prevent further infections but we may be able to minimise the effects of those infections​
None of the measures here or indeed elsewhere, are in any way *proactive*, they are reactions to the circumstances in which we find ourselves​


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## seamus m

Are we using the 4 hour testing kit or do we have any coming .I know we have new testing stock for tomorrow is this the faster kit.  Does anyone know much about 15 min test and kit that  two Tipp men are working on can it be rolled out?. That could b a game changer if we have enough quickly .  Tipp , Tipp,Tipp


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> I presume this is also something we should be at



That's mostly for show, limited real effect.


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## mathepac

Do Leo & Simon know this? If it's true, why are we hearing reports of a shortage of ventilators and related equipment in acute hospitals in Ireland? If we have a critical need here at home can we not place priority orders with MedTronics in Galway or ask them to work extra shifts to meet new demand?


SPC100 said:


> " *An impressive 50% of ventilators in acute hospitals worldwide are manufactured in Ireland*.  "


 We have failed to do anything remotely proactive in this crisis, can we at least react appropriately to save suffering and lives?


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## odyssey06

I'm am trying to get into the discipline of left hand for touching public things such as outside door handle, right hand for private things e.g. keys
Then straight away when home, use right hand to turn on the tap and press the soapwash.


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## EmmDee

mathepac said:


> Do Leo & Simon know this? If it's true, why are we hearing reports of a shortage of ventilators and related equipment in acute hospitals in Ireland? If we have a critical need here at home can we not place priority orders with MedTronics in Galway or ask them to work extra shifts to meet new demand?
> We have failed to do anything remotely proactive in this crisis, can we at least react appropriately to save suffering and lives?



Not sure seizing private companies will be constructive - at the very least it would open us to retaliation (by US or whatever). There is still a rule of law which is important.

There isn't a failure to do "anything". At EU level there is a purchase scheme going on and a plan to move equipment to locations as demand moves. There is also an announced increase in Irish equipment over the coming weeks. You can question whether there is a realistic plan to do more, but probably best to only do so if you have specific expertise or knowledge.


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## seamus m

EmmDee said:


> Not sure seizing private companies will be constructive - at the very least it would open us to retaliation (by US or whatever). There is still a rule of law which is important.
> 
> There isn't a failure to do "anything". At EU level there is a purchase scheme going on and a plan to move equipment to locations as demand moves. There is also an announced increase in Irish equipment over the coming weeks. You can question whether there is a realistic plan to do more, but probably best to only do so if you have specific expertise or knowledge.


They have been heavily funded by IDA  and it's not about seizing it's about doubling down and helping them more to meet our orders finding them and providing whatever they need. Be it raw materials ,staff ,transport that all these extra minutes are used to fill our demand and we continue this then for world demand .I wouldn't think Donald would be as kind.


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## EmmDee

seamus m said:


> They have been heavily funded by IDA  and it's not about seizing it's about doubling down and helping them more to meet our orders finding them and providing whatever they need. Be it raw materials ,staff ,transport that all these extra minutes are used to fill our demand and we continue this then for world demand .I wouldn't think Donald would be as kind.



And does anyone on this board know that there has been no discussion with them? Or that other actions aren't being taken? Or - just because announcements haven't been made (which might have a valid reason for not announcing) that "the government is doing nothing". If not, then better to temper language and take a breath - that's my point

And out of interest -








						Irish project for easy-to-assemble Covid-19 ventilators bears fruit
					

Open Source 3D-printer ventilator project has prototypes ready to be validated by HSE




					www.irishtimes.com
				




Interesting quote in the article - they have worked with the HSE to get approval for the devices but don't think they will be needed here.


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## noproblem

Saw a biologist today on some programme or other saying that any cure that appears in the very near future for the Coronavirus can in no way be trusted and that he certainly wouldn't take it. What do people feel, would you take it if it appeared in the next month or so?


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## EmmDee

noproblem said:


> Saw a biologist today on some programme or other saying that any cure that appears in the very near future for the Coronavirus can in no way be trusted and that he certainly wouldn't take it. What do people feel, would you take it if it appeared in the next month or so?



Important to look at the detail of the reports. Many of the recent reports are about promising trials of anti viral drugs. In the main these involve existing drugs (which have been through all the trials) originally developed for other viruses. They are usually referring to success in treating people who already have the virus. So in some small samples, retooling existing medication looks like it delivers promising initial results.

Vaccines are different. There have been a number of reports of labs starting to develop vaccines. And I'm sure it's being worked in many places. But even if a prospective vaccine is ready to test, it will need to go through many stages of testing. It would be close to a year or more before widely available. In the past, short cutting vaccines has led to cases where the vaccine actually made the effects of the virus worse.


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## mathepac

EmmDee said:


> Not sure seizing private companies will be constructive - at the very least it would open us to retaliation (by US or whatever). There is still a rule of law which is important.


Where did you get that rubbish from? 

I have made no such proposal, explicitly or implicitly. This is what I suggested "*can we not place priority orders with MedTronics in Galway or ask them to work extra shifts to meet new demand?*"


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## mathepac

EmmDee said:


> And does anyone on this board know that there has been no discussion with them? Or that other actions aren't being taken? Or - just because announcements haven't been made (which might have a valid reason for not announcing) that "the government is doing nothing". If not, then better to temper language and take a breath - that's my point


I'm sure if Leo and Simon had had a decently innovative idea, we'd be the very first to know, with announcements heralded by fanfares. The only poster using intemperate language is you talking about "seizing private companies" and opening us " to retaliation (by US or whatever)" both topics of your own creation.

The government has done nothing in the weeks leading up to today - apart from print some yellow posters and counsel us that washing our hands was the answer, 

We have too few acute hospital beds to isolate the numbers of patients who will ultimately need isolation, we have too few laboratory testing facilities and too few testers who are already working overtime (RTE TV news). wW are due to get 30,000 extra testing kits in the next few days. If or when those extra testing kits are delivered, we can test an additional 0.67% of our population. What a wonderful country we have with exemplary leadership being displayed, 8 to 10 weeks too late to be useful.



EmmDee said:


> Interesting quote in the article - they have worked with the HSE to get approval for the devices but don't think they will be needed here.


The article you provided a link to says no such thing. Read it again. It actually states "now has *prototypes ready that may be validated* for use by the Health Service Executive from as early as next week."a notion every bit as inaccurate as the headline writer of the Irish Times report, the new Red Top.


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## EmmDee

mathepac said:


> "*can we not place priority orders with MedTronics in Galway or ask them to work extra shifts to meet new demand?*"



Explain how we get our orders prioritised?

Is it an assumption that production isn't already ramped up? If true, how do we change management decisions?

That's where I got "'that rubbish"


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## mathepac

No assumptions on my part, no jumping to nonsense conclusions, I simply asked the two questions you eventually found relating to my OP. Well done.

Can you answer either of the questions?


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## XMarks

Medtronics is a US company with a factory based here. I am sure some that we have ordered are from there but doubt we are jumping any queues.


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## EmmDee

mathepac said:


> No assumptions on my part, no jumping to nonsense conclusions, I simply asked the two questions you eventually found relating to my OP. Well done.
> 
> Can you answer either of the questions?



I debated whether to bother continuing this. But there is a wider point.

I did answer your question. I said the only way the Government could achieve the two questions you posed was by taking over the management of the company. There is no official way of skipping the queue. Assuming the company isn't already working flat out (your assumption) there is no way of forcing them to. So you posed questions but didn't propose a methodology - or show some specific knowledge.

But it's the broader issue (not specific to your post btw) that bothers me. It is easy to say in forums that the government / HSE / <insert specific person's name> are doing nothing about this. But it's crazy to think that people are sitting there thinking "I don't think I'll bother doing anything today - maybe tomorrow".

The nature of a pandemic is that it will stretch resources. It is impossible to completely cover all resource demands in a relatively short space of time. But, for example, the ramping up of testing here is a lot quicker than most countries at our stage. The change in societal behaviour has been introduced here quicker than elsewhere (for the same stage), the ramping up of backup health staff here is a lot quicker than other countries, test kits are short but additional kits are arriving here quicker than other countries (so must have been arranged earlier), equipment shortages are happening but certainly not as bad as UK / US for example - I'm sure there are other examples.

Also - not everything is going to paraded in the media. If, for example, a health minister had informally persuaded a manufacturing company to push our orders up the queue, I don't think it would be in either party's interest to see that in the media. Much better to do it quietly. Likewise with any supplies that were ramped up. The same happened pretty much with the drive through testing centres - better to announce when they just about to open rather than announcing it weeks in advance. But none of this happens without planning and discussions happening weeks or months ahead.

We can throw out ideas and that's no harm. It is likely, behind the scenes, that anything we throw out here has already been thought about. But any good ideas I'm sure will get passed on. But I don't think we should be claiming any people in the public or civil service, or any of the politicians (from any political hue) are not doing anything - they may make mistakes, they may miss something. But they are not inactive


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## Leo

mathepac said:


> or ask them to work extra shifts to meet new demand?



Why did no one else think of that!!



mathepac said:


> The government has done nothing in the weeks leading up to today



Really?


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## mathepac

One of the massive bottlenecks the government has failed to address is the timely testing of oral swabs and other samples for COVID-19. 

We have dozens of empty laboratories in universities and technical colleges around the country and we have laboratory technicians and scientists who are  at best underemployed.  What would it take to outfit empty labs with  extra equipment (if necessary) and re-train lab staff (if necessary) to test for COVID-19? 

It strikes me as pretty pointless to increase the centres taking samples if the samples can’t be tested and results fed back in a timely manner.


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## mathepac

XMarks said:


> Medtronics is a US company with a factory based here. I am sure some that we have ordered are from there but doubt we are jumping any queues.


I am not sure at all what has happened which is why I asked the questions. What makes you so sure about what has happened? And I never suggested jumping queues. Read my post


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## Ceist Beag

I know of one person who rang their GP on Saturday and was put on a list for a test at that time - they are still waiting for their test to take place, never mind get the results! If the backlog as of last Saturday was so big then I would fear for anyone who rings their GP now. Maybe the new kits due to arrive today might speed things up a bit or maybe it is just an urban/rural divide as I see Ciara Kelly rang her GP on Saturday as well and she was tested on Sunday and had her results on Tuesday!
It would be interesting to see what the waiting time is around the country right now.


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## Max Weber

RichInSpirit said:


> Wear disposable nitrile gloves at times. I've seen some of the cashiers in a local supermarket doing this. Makes sense to me anyway.
> Someone also optioned that cash is dirty stuff. It gets around. Not sure if the alternatives are better, cards, phones etc.



My neighbour and i both agreed that this only makes sense if you change them every time you touch something. If you wear them and then touch something and then touch your face, germs will spread. You would literally have to change them everytime you touch something foreign.


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## mathepac

Why not just stop touching your face? Or wear a simple mask?

The new litter I discovered this morning walking down town consists of disposable nitrile gloves dumped on the streets outside shops. As soon as anyone mentions disposable in this country that seems to imply dump it on the street or motorway whether it's bottles or cans of pee or gloves from delivery drivers, shoppers, shop assistants going off duty. It seems even in a potentially deadly medical emergency we can't keep our rubbish to ourselves. "I'm all right Jack, to hell with you."


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## seamus m

Irish times on about waiting up to1 week for results where the hell are 4 hour kits ? Also I was just up and saw one elderly woman recieve her order from chemist through 3 inch gap in passenger window then to my dismay 6 lads 18 to 20 came out of shop and got into small car. How can  we try lock down teenagers now the most cant be thrusted and they are hard too manage .I don't even think their parents would mind .


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## mathepac

Leo said:


> Why did no one else think of that!!


Someone has decided to run with one of my suggestions:-  https://www.independent.ie/business...s-247-to-meet-ventilator-demand-39059876.html


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## seamus m

The government should have and still should fill  some of these gaps in staff .We are on a war footing and this is Irish tax paying company it's all hands to pump Irish needs have to be prioritised.


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## Leo

mathepac said:


> Someone has decided to run with one of my suggestions:-  https://www.independent.ie/business...s-247-to-meet-ventilator-demand-39059876.html



Yep, of course 100% of the credit here goes to you, nothing to do with unprecedented demand over the last 2-3 months


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## seamus m

Schools should be set up as pods for contact tracing ,plenty room in hall areas and local knowledge of areas and people living there and already on government roster.


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## seamus m

Sorry should have had teachers with local knowledge


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> Sorry should have had teachers with local knowledge



Many teachers are still engaging with their classes remotely.


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## seamus m

Leo said:


> Many teachers are still engaging with their classes remotely.


They are fully paid and should be used as a resource they could keep remote work
from school base and also be ready for case sourcing .if not possible forget the schooling untill next sept I'm sure Italians are not to worried about schooling


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## Leo

seamus m said:


> They are fully paid and should be used as a resource they could keep remote work
> from school base and also be ready for case sourcing



Not really clear what you're trying to say there...  Are you suggesting they should stop their teaching activities? Why are teachers suitable for contact tracing with no access to the systems in use? Sure the Dublin Fire Brigade are all trained paramedics, let's get them to do it and I'll pretend to be a fireman...

In other news many people with the appropriate training/ experience have volunteered via the HSE channels, most have been put in a holding pattern as they are not needed yet.


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## odyssey06

Scottish finance secretary, Kate Forbes, called on the UK government to scrap tax and excise duties on alcohol that is being used to make hand sanitiser.


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## mathepac

Leo said:


> Yep, of course 100% of the credit here goes to you, nothing to do with unprecedented demand over the last 2-3 months



So it would appear. https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0321/1124510-coronavirus-projections/

To quote from the report "He [Simple Simon} also said his officials will meet with representatives from the pharmaceuticals and medical devices industries on Monday [23rd March 2020] in a bid to ensure we can "maximise the access we have to medical devices in the coming weeks and months", the meeting taking place weeks if not months after the warning signs were posted.


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## mathepac

EmmDee said:
			
		

> And does anyone on this board know that there has been no discussion with them?


From today's RTE news report linked to above "He [Simple Simon] also said his officials will meet with representatives from the pharmaceuticals and medical devices industries on Monday [23rd March 2020] in a bid to ensure we can "maximise the access we have to medical devices in the coming weeks and months".



			
				EmmDee said:
			
		

> I said the only way the Government could achieve the two questions you posed was by taking over the management of the company. There is no official way of skipping the queue. Assuming the company isn't already working flat out (your assumption) there is no way of forcing them to. So you posed questions but didn't propose a methodology - or show some specific knowledge.


Wrong again of course. To negotiate, you sit down as described in the RTE news report and negotiate. Again for the record, these notions of skipping queues and forcing businesses to do anything are purely products of your mind and were never proposed by me.

I must again point out that I made no assumptions, unlike you and other posters;  I simply asked two questions which have now been answered in the news report.


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## Roro999

.


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## Roro999

__ https://www.facebook.com/100048598530162/posts/112303930399558


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## seamus m

Where the hell are the 4 hour testing kits looking at Borris stupidity the English system is already creaking .We should be announcing full quarantine for anyone of our nationals coming home and closing borders to English.Test test test contact trace and isolate.They are already short ventilators and medical shields and scrubs and gloves and masks with doctors and nurses now possibly cross contaminating over this.We need to learn quick


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## WaterWater

Out walking yesterday, this guy in front of me turns his head and spits on the ground.  I don't think I got the spray but who knows.

Also joggers, running along pedestrian footpaths, spitting as they go.  Not all.

Joggers need to keep to a designated space.


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## Leo

mathepac said:


> To quote from the report "He [Simple Simon} also said his officials will meet with representatives from the pharmaceuticals and medical devices industries on Monday [23rd March 2020] in a bid to ensure we can "maximise the access we have to medical devices in the coming weeks and months", the meeting taking place weeks if not months after the warning signs were posted.



I must have missed the piece where he gave you credit there .


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## seamus m

Just listening to Italian doctor who described people out walking and thinking they are on their holidays as collective suicide . Back my original post we need to live within a distance of our homes before it's too late.. More of a lockdown please.


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## Peanuts20

Well it'd be a start if people stopped littering the place with latex gloves, I must have counted half a dozen out yesterday walking the dog


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## seamus m

Also nurses in England have identified a problem with no outside the hospital derobing facilities short term structures could be worked on in car parks etc


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## seamus m

Delighted with 2 km radius from home for everything where possible ,now enforce it it's not that big a deal and I presume our borders are now closed


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## Thirsty

> presume our borders are now closed


You may have noticed, if paying attention closely that when the schools were closed, they said, anyone who wants to travel home to Ireland should do so before 29th March.  

This doesn't feel like a 'knee-jerk' reaction.  I get the impression that as the numbers started to hit certain points, the next phase was brought in.


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## HollowKnight

I agree. They brought in simple measures first knowing that it would get to this point. But you couldn't go straight to what was introduced last night.


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## seamus m

They could have quarantined anyone that was in Italy  stopped Italian tourists and closed borders and bookies for Cheltham and then they wouldn't have had to.Hindsight is 20/20 but alot of people myself included were calling for this.A lot of others were too worried about economy and look at it now. At least now we are starting to show better foresight and leadership.Money is something we just trade with it shouldn't have been for lives


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## Thirsty

I don't think they got everything right; but I do think they got more right than they got wrong. 

And I'm certain they got more right than many other countries.


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## moneymakeover

In Czech Republic

The Czech government approved a ban on going out anywhere in public while not wearing a surgical mask or covering one's nose and mouth with a scarf.


Similar number of cases as Ireland
Fewer deaths
Higher population


They are using home made masks where surgical masks not available.


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