# Where can we buy German Government Bonds?



## Godfather (6 Sep 2010)

Hi, sometimes ago I read on the Sunday Times that German Bonds seems to the most secure forms of saving despite the low interest rate. Do you know if there is a comparison website for the fees in buying such bonds via irish bank? Alternatively, can I buy them directly? Pls any link with information on how to buy them would be appreciated. Thanks


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## Sam (15 Sep 2010)

I'm not sure how to buy them (would try a stockbroker) but I think you need a minimum of 50,000 euro to buy government bonds.


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## Monksfield (22 Sep 2010)

There are a range of Bund ETFs...can get quite a short one if safe haven. the objective. Very low TERs but make sure not to buy using a competitive on-line broker.


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## mercman (22 Sep 2010)

Monksfield said:


> but make sure not to buy using a competitive on-line broker.



Just as a matter of interest and curiosity why ?


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## Troy McClure (22 Sep 2010)

You can buy them through the link below. You have to open an account. It's a slow process but at least you dont have to pay a broker here. There is no minimum you can buy.
[broken link removed]

I am interested in their 'day 'bond' and am trying to find anyone in Ireland who knows about them. The interest rate flucuates daily which means your capital is effectively protected against future increase in rates which would affect a fixed rate bonds value. With rates so low in Germany at the moment this may be an issue. Anyone have any experience of this 'Day Bond'?


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## jpd (23 Sep 2010)

Very efficent - as you would expect. The French government also promotes purchase of their bonds see here (http://www.aft.gouv.fr/?lang=en) although not quite as efficently as the germans.

Why can't we do this?


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## Protocol (23 Sep 2010)

The NTMA have a sheet on where to buy Irish Govt bonds:

[broken link removed]


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## Monksfield (23 Sep 2010)

Apologies - meant to say that adviseable to buy through a competive on-line broker.


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## dohouch (27 Sep 2010)

Troy McClure said:


> You can buy them through the link below. You have to open an account.
> [broken link removed]
> 
> A bit odd that there is no explanation of the product in English.  Also all the forms are in German, and don't know how easy it would be to get a bank to sign/stamp forms that are in German.
> ...


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## lazing (26 Nov 2010)

If concerned about the future of the Euro, and believe that German currency will hold value stronger than Irish currency (if Euro breakup), then German securities look like a good solution to me.  Also it would appear a more straightforward solution than opening a German bank account.  

I am currently considering doing this for perhaps a two to three year period, until stability (hopefully!) returns.


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## Bcommercial (27 Nov 2010)

lazing said:


> ... German securities look like a good solution to me.  Also it would appear a more straightforward solution than opening a German bank account...



There's not much difference really between the two, same criteria necessary to open an a/c with the german bond issuing agency as for any german bank, and both held in same currency in same country.


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## bayareatony (7 Jul 2011)

I am interested too. I did open the account with BWp-Direkt, but I cannot link it to my (French) bank account. Is there a way to link to a non-German account?


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## coin (7 Jul 2011)

I think you have to go over to Germany to provide your passport details in order to transfer your funds across.

Otherwise you can go to a stockbroker and buy them directly from there. Fees will eat up all the interest recieved and may take some of the original capital too.


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## sixshooter (29 Jul 2011)

Hi,

Has anyone actually bought the German government bonds in a way that does not involve going to Germany?

And secondly are we sure that in the event of a euro break-up, are we sure that as foreigners, the value of our German bonds would be converted to the "new Deutchmark"?


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## Marc (30 Jul 2011)

The best way to do this is through an investment fund.

Bonds are subject to income tax at your marginal rate which could be up to 55% once you add on the USC etc.

Whereas a fund that distributes income is subject to a rate of 27% instead.

For example 

[broken link removed]


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## Jim2007 (30 Jul 2011)

Marc said:


> Whereas a fund that distributes income is subject to a rate of 27% instead.



I don't really get this point, at what rate will the investor pay taxes on the distribution, 27% or his marginal rate?

Sorry if this sounds funny, but we don't pay taxes on investment gains here in Switzerland, so most funds are accumulating rather than distributing.  Just trying to get my head around it.

Jim.


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## Marc (30 Jul 2011)

Well since this isn't Askabout geld Swiss tax laws are irrelevant.

You do know this is an Irish site?


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## Jim2007 (31 Jul 2011)

Marc said:


> Well since this isn't Askabout geld Swiss tax laws are irrelevant.
> 
> You do know this is an Irish site?



Marc,

The question is very simple: Will the investor in your proposal pay tax Irish taxes on the distribution at 27% as you are implying or his marginal tax rate???

Jim.


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## Marc (31 Jul 2011)

http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/...et-2011---Miscellaneous-measures-of-interest/

Confirms the rate of tax is 27% for regular income distributions. 

Marginal rates of income tax do not apply to investment funds.

Non taxpayers therefore have a theoretical tax advantage purchasing bonds directly but would likely purchase in such small volumes as to be inefficient in terms of diversification and transactions costs. Given current bond and deposit yields a non taxpayer would probably be better off holding cash deposits in most instances.


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