# What does wealth mean



## TarfHead (29 Nov 2012)

This story annoyed me. I have recent experience of this. Our 12yo son is in sixth class and has been accepted for the local secondary school. This is not a fee-paying school and we were asked to pay a €250 deposit to confirm acceptance. Later we received a confirmation letter, thanking us for our 'donation' and enclosing a form for the tax back scheme.

Does this mean our son is now heading for a wealthy school ? Are we wealthy ? We can't be cos we don't earn this arbitary 100K figure that gets bandied abotu as being the threshold for wealth.

And that 100K figure annoys me too. What's that based on ? How is someone on 101K more able to pay a higher rate of tax or USC than someone on 99K ? How is someone on 150K with a mortgage of 400K 'wealthier' than someone on 75K with no mortgage ?

This is just more of the sloganeering and scapegoating that passes for debate these days.


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## orka (29 Nov 2012)

I think part of your irritation is caused by poor wording in the article. Where it says _"__Last year, two schools got more than €72,000 back. A further two schools received just under €70,000. __This means all these schools received donations from parents or other PAYE workers worth around €100,000",_ it is not referring to parents/PAYE workers worth 100K. 100K is the donation received from parents/PAYE workers - they've worked this out from the value of the tax back (if €174 tax back equates to a donation of €250, then 70K tax back equates to total donations of 100K). It would have been clearer to word it as 'received donations worth 100K from parents/PAYE workers'.

These 'voluntary donations' are getting a bit ridiculous. My daughter's school had an aggressively pursued €500 'donation' (which grossed up to €850 with the tax back) PLUS a charge of €200 for photocopying etc. So the school was getting 'fees' of over €1,000 yet it is only actual fee-paying schools which are criticised for being elitist etc. Between the not-so-voluntary contribution, the actual charge and the grinds to make up for deficiencies in teaching and teacher absenteeism, it ended up cheaper to send her to an actual fee-paying school!


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## Thirsty (30 Nov 2012)

> ..... it ended up cheaper to send her to an actual fee-paying school!


Cheaper for the State as well... so what does that tell us?

Maybe it's time we dropped the notion of free education for all and stuck with educating those who want education and not forcing young people to attend school against their will.


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## Firefly (30 Nov 2012)

TarfHead said:


> I have recent experience of this. Our 12yo son is in sixth class and has been accepted for the local secondary school. This is not a fee-paying school and *we were asked to pay a €250 deposit to confirm acceptance*.


 
To me that sounds like a clever way of making you pay..in other words if you don't pay you won't get in to a public school? I think I'd be on to the Dept of Education to get confirmation on this.


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## TarfHead (30 Nov 2012)

My gripe is against the decision, by some anonymous journalist in RTE, to classify such 'donations' as being the actions of 'wealthy' parents of children attending 'wealthy' schools. It's a lazy generalisation.

Also, this 100K salary that is used as handle for being 'wealthy'. Lazy by the public servants who shape policy around it, lazy by the politicians who brandish it, lazy by the media who don't question it's basis.



Firefly said:


> To me that sounds like a clever way of making you pay


 I wouldn't use the term 'clever' to describe it. We've paid the money to confirm the place. One friend of my son is #96 on the waiting list for a place, so they have parents in a bind.


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## Purple (30 Nov 2012)

orka said:


> I think part of your irritation is caused by poor wording in the article. Where it says _"__Last year, two schools got more than €72,000 back. A further two schools received just under €70,000. __This means all these schools received donations from parents or other PAYE workers worth around €100,000",_ it is not referring to parents/PAYE workers worth 100K. 100K is the donation received from parents/PAYE workers - they've worked this out from the value of the tax back (if €174 tax back equates to a donation of €250, then 70K tax back equates to total donations of 100K). It would have been clearer to word it as 'received donations worth 100K from parents/PAYE workers'.
> 
> These 'voluntary donations' are getting a bit ridiculous. My daughter's school had an aggressively pursued €500 'donation' (which grossed up to €850 with the tax back) PLUS a charge of €200 for photocopying etc. So the school was getting 'fees' of over €1,000 yet it is only actual fee-paying schools which are criticised for being elitist etc. Between the not-so-voluntary contribution, the actual charge and the grinds to make up for deficiencies in teaching and teacher absenteeism, it ended up cheaper to send her to an actual fee-paying school!



Fee paying Schools get around €1500 less in state funding per student than state schools so parents in fee paying schools are subsidising the education system. What's happening now is students in well off areas are getting full state funding plus fees (donations & charges) plus fund raising throughout the year. It's like they are going to private schools but the state is paying the fees.


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## DB74 (30 Nov 2012)

Another lazy throw-away phrase in the article was

"The Revenue Commissioners were unable to provide figures on contributions to schools from the self-employed."

thereby implying that the school would/could have received more money/tax breaks from donations from the self-employed

However where a self-employed person makes a charitable donation, the charity cannot claim back tax in the same way as if a PAYE worker made the donation. It is the self-employed person who makes the claim for the tax.


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## Firefly (3 Dec 2012)

TarfHead said:


> I wouldn't use the term 'clever' to describe it. We've paid the money to confirm the place. One friend of my son is #96 on the waiting list for a place, so they have parents in a bind.



Hi TarfHead,

I meant clever in the devious sense. A waiting list to get your child into a school of your choice ensures you are vulnerable to this "donation"


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## TarfHead (20 Dec 2012)

I like this on www.broadsheet.ie


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## Leper (6 Jan 2013)

TarfHead said:


> This story annoyed me. I have recent experience of this. Our 12yo son is in sixth class and has been accepted for the local secondary school. This is not a fee-paying school and we were asked to pay a €250 deposit to confirm acceptance. Later we received a confirmation letter, thanking us for our 'donation' and enclosing a form for the tax back scheme.
> 
> Does this mean our son is now heading for a wealthy school ? Are we wealthy ? We can't be cos we don't earn this arbitary 100K figure that gets bandied abotu as being the threshold for wealth.
> 
> ...


 
Welcome to my world Tarfhead.  It was always this way and will be for the future.  By the way, to answer your question, Health is Wealth.


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## Sue Ellen (6 Jan 2013)

Leper said:


> By the way, to answer your question, Health is Wealth.



So, so true.


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