# Speed Trap, Caught Again



## roker (10 Dec 2012)

Since getting 2 points and €80 fine for doing 10km/h over the limit, I have been determined not to get caught again for such a petty offence, I stick strictly the limits. I have seen other driver behind me impatiently trying to pass, I have seen them cross a single white line to get past me at speed, how do they get away with it?
Today I got caught again, everyone including myself was doing 80km/h through the road works between the West Cork roundabout and the Sarsfield roundabout. This would normally be a 100km/h stretch but it is temporarily 60 because of the road works at either side. Stuck at the side of the road halfway in the construction site where you would never expect was a GoSafe camera Van.

I now know it is all about money, they are supposed to be on accident black spots (Garda statement: Go safe will only operate on sections of road which have a history of collisions occurring where speed was a contributory factor) I would also question the legality of a temporary sign.
The traffic was continuous so the camera must have been going about every 5 second, which is 720 times per hour @ €80 a shot = €57,000 per hour.
It looks like we are funding the new fly-overs as well.
The Insurance companies are also taking atvantage of this increase in penalty points for petty offence, to increase our premiums.


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## gipimann (10 Dec 2012)

There are similar roadworks on the M1 near Dublin Airport, also with a 60kph temporary speed limit, and I've seen the goSafe camera van on a number of occasions.


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## RonanC (10 Dec 2012)

You may get away with this one... Oh no wait sorry I have just found this, they have passed [broken link removed] which means the speed limit is 60kph. 

So do you think it is safe to drive at speed on a road that you say yourself is a construction site? The road surface may be suitable for higher speeds but what about the safety of those working within several feet of fast moving vehicles? 

Sarsfield Roundabout speed limits have been discussed at length here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056771384

Speed limits and Go Safe vans are there for a reason.


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## roker (10 Dec 2012)

RonanC: This is a very wide construction site and the workers are no where near the fences, most of them are in large machines.

There was a stretch about 9 km on the N71 from Roscarberry to Leap that was completed weeks ago, a fine wide road with hard shoulders, but they never took the 60 km/h signs off until this week. No one took any notice of these signs either (except me) because it was so ridiculous, 80 km/h when turning off to a back road, people just lost respect of the limits/authority


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## Leper (11 Dec 2012)

I know the spot well Roker.  It is well signposted and you are reminded also that speed traps are there. Hate saying it, you're right somebody has to pay for the speed on which bankers handed out money.


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## ajapale (11 Dec 2012)

> The roadworks’ temporary speed limit 60km shall apply for a period of 12 months from 1st June 2012 to 31st May 2013.
> 
> Tim Lucey, City Manager,
> Cork City Council, City Hall, Cork.
> 8th June 2012


Were the 60km/h regulatory road signs clearly visible?

Were there other road warning signs/ roadworks signs indicating potential hazards?

Even after the roadworks are complete the order is in place until 31st May  2102. I agree with you that Leaving signs up after the hazard has gone brings the system into disrepute. The local authority should rescind the order once the works are complete and the hazard has been removed.

Road works sites are considered very high risk and there have been some horrendous incidents at road works sites.


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## truthseeker (11 Dec 2012)

Feel your pain OP, how are you supposed to go at the right speed when every car on the road is going faster? Are you not going to be a danger to other road users if you suddenly slow down?


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## One (11 Dec 2012)

OP - I know what you are saying. There is a 60kph sign on the N4 near the Applegreen petrol stations. There is construction going on in the area. Sometimes I obey the speeding limit and an awful lot of traffic passes me out. Sometimes I just want to drive at what seems a safe speed to me. It is a difficult one, but on one occasion there was a speed check being performed there. 90% of people must have been breaking the speed limit that day. I think the right thing to do must be to obey the speed limit, even though most people, including myself, have difficulty doing that.


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## Leper (12 Dec 2012)

The speed limits are there for our protection.  If you dont obey, then pay the fine and accept the penalty points - sore, I know - but, as a politician once said:- It's never the wrong time to do the right thing.


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## DB74 (12 Dec 2012)

RonanC said:


> Speed limits and Go Safe vans are there for a reason.



Yes, to raise revenue


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## T McGibney (12 Dec 2012)

DB74 said:


> Yes, to raise revenue



... and reward political cronies.


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## truthseeker (12 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> The speed limits are there for our protection.



They are inappropriate on many of our roads.


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## ivuernis (12 Dec 2012)

Think I might have got caught there too roker on the same morning, was doing about 73kph when I spotted the camera van and I was probably one of the slower drivers on that stretch at the time! It's hard to keep to 60kph there, it just seems inappropriately slow, especially heading east from Sarsfield where you're heading away from the construction site; but it's the law so gotta suck it up. Hoping I'll escape though as I've no points so far.


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## demoivre (12 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> The speed limits are there for our protection.



You sure?


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## Leper (12 Dec 2012)

I am certain the speed limits are there for our protection.  I know there are times when it appears that the limit is set too low.  But, if everybody obeys the limit then, there is no problem; trouble is, we have speed-jockeys who have no patience and think they own the road and feel entitled to be reckless and dont care about anybody's safety.

I have no problem with speed traps, long may they reign and I hope they catch the reckless drivers and if it keeps my income tax down, then better again.


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## truthseeker (12 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> I am certain the speed limits are there for our protection.  I know there are times when it appears that the limit is set too low.



There are times where they are set too low but there are equally times where they are set far too high. 

Its very naive to think that someone sat down and thought about what was a safe limit for this particular stretch of road and how it would protect us. I know someone who started work in a council and on Day 1 was handed a map with a new road layout and told to design where the traffic lights should be. He protested that he knew nothing about roads, the area, the traffic etc... and the answer he got was "we were given a budget for 2 traffic lights on that stretch, mark them in wherever you like".


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## Leper (12 Dec 2012)

truthseeker said:


> ... and the answer he got was "we were given a budget for 2 traffic lights on that stretch, mark them in wherever you like".


 
You're dead right Truthseeker. Isn't that the rule:- use it or lose it especially when you are talking about budgets?  And of course the clincher "We came in under budget" [whether the budget was needed or not they came in under the amount so therefore it was justified].

But, getting back to speeding on our roads, I think we should all lead by example and obey the speed limits.  I feel there is much too much death on our roads and we must all slow down.


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## truthseeker (12 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> I feel there is much too much death on our roads and we must all slow down.



The biggest problem I have driving is that Im at the correct speed for the road (ie, the limit) and there is a driver up my behind flashing, beeping and sometimes waving a fist at me.


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## roker (12 Dec 2012)

Leper: It's the petty offence, I got done for 10km/h (6mph) over on a Sunday morning when there were few people around, everyones speed drifts up and down slightly, that was the first offence in 40yrs of driving. As I said, it is all about money now, not safety, it's getting near the accuracy of the speedo.


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## DrMoriarty (13 Dec 2012)

I just got a fine through the post from the French police for the same offence (96km/h in a 90km/h zone) — but it was only €45.

Rip-off Republic or what?!


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## Leper (13 Dec 2012)

roker said:


> Leper: It's the petty offence, I got done for 10km/h (6mph) over on a Sunday morning when there were few people around, everyones speed drifts up and down slightly, that was the first offence in 40yrs of driving. As I said, it is all about money now, not safety, it's getting near the accuracy of the speedo.


 
Aren't all one's own offences petty?  If you speak to any motorist who was involved in an accident you will be told "Technically, I was in the wrong, but, you know yourself, I was in the right. . ."  The stretch of road you're talking about is among the worst accident-prone spots in the country.  The Gardaí are fed up with dealing with petty accidents there and much of their time is wasted (when it could be used more productively elsewhere) on petty accidents.  Furthermore, the stretch is well signposted with bollards etc and no motorist there can be oblivious to speed limits.  

Sorry for sounding like a teacher, but nowadays driving for many is a race to the next red traffic light.  Thing is, too many are entering the race.  Add in the lunatic-I-always-have-the-right-of-way jockeys and have mayhem.  

I see what I am talking about every day.  It is easier to drive slower and listen to André Rieu on CD than participate in the lunacy.   And it is better to attend a funeral than be the principal in one.  Sadly, too many of our young are being killed prematurely as a result of bad driving.


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## Firefly (13 Dec 2012)

Hi roker,

To be fair, these are probably the largest roadworks underway in Cork at present. The previous section worked on (from Wilton to Togher exit) had speed checks too and everyone knew about them. The current section being worked on is pretty precarious and dangerous with lanes switching & merging. In my opinion 60kmh is a bit slow alright, but if there was a crash there, although it would probably not be fateful, it would cause havok. 

It must be a sickener getting this just before Christmas too, but I'd say just suck it up and move on..


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## Crugers (13 Dec 2012)

Firefly said:


> ...but if there was a crash there, although it would probably not be *fateful*...



I presume you mean fatal!

IIRC a young woman was killed while riding her motorcycle at the Sarsfield roundabout late September 2012...


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## ajapale (13 Dec 2012)

Out of interest are there speed camera signs at this location in Cork?


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## T McGibney (13 Dec 2012)

Leper said:


> It is easier to drive slower and listen to André Rieu on CD than participate in the lunacy.



Do bear in mind that driving too slowly, without consideration for other vehicles on the road, can have consequences too. It is not a driver's prerogative to opt in and out of normal traffic flow whenever they feel like it.



Leper said:


> Sadly, too many of our young are  being killed prematurely as a result of bad driving.


Just our young?


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## Leper (13 Dec 2012)

T McGibney said:


> Do bear in mind that driving too slowly, without consideration for other vehicles on the road, can have consequences too. It is not a driver's prerogative to opt in and out of normal traffic flow whenever they feel like it.
> 
> 
> Just our young?


 
You're right Mr McGibney, driving too fast or too slow are dangerous. There must be a happy medium though and common sense must be used. Most Irish drivers won't concede an inch and will hammer away at the I've-got-the-right-of-way-no-matter-what syndrome. These people arrive at their destinations stressed and on the brink of heart trouble or with terminal cancer being born. It is easier to drive and be generous to other drivers, but not to the point of pandering, of course.

Sadly, it is not just our young who are dying either.

. . . and the €80 fine, remember you have to earn nearly double that amount before you have it as disposable income.

Every kind of bad driving campaign has failed, perhaps it is time to try being civil and considerate?

Incidentally, the stretch of road mentioned has every kind of speed camera sign and also blatant signs that people exceeding speed limits will be prosecuted, fined and incur penalty points. It is particularly scary driving there lately.


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## roker (13 Dec 2012)

On that particular day, the 2 lanes had changed and they diverted in to a "Y" and then over 2 large dips or channels in the road leaving me wondering if I was going the correct way, speeding was the last thing on my mind I followed everyone else.

Interesting that the government is thinking about putting the penalty points up to 4 for speeding, they will only be able to get 3 x €80 fines and then you are off the road, they have not thought that through!


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## ajapale (13 Dec 2012)

roker said:


> ....the 2 lanes had changed and they diverted in to a "Y" and then over 2 large dips or channels in the road .....



What you describe seems like a highly hazardous road works situation. The traffic management system appears to be changing from day to day.

The Cork Local Authority Manager advised by his traffic engineers has deemed 60km/hr to be the appropriate speed through the works.

There is a long history of horrible and tragic accidents at roadworks in this country.

There were temporary roadworks signs, statutory 60km/hr speed limit signs and signs denoting the presence of speed cameras.

Most of the traffic on the day chose to ignore the limit.

It may be that 60 km/hr is too low but the next increment up 80km/hr is almost certainly too fast. Remember this limit has to stand at night, during bad weather and when the road works are unattended.


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## Leper (14 Dec 2012)

We're talking about a few hundred yards of road here, not the whole M1 motorway.  Whether you drive it at 130kms per hour or 60kms per hour there are only seconds (even if anything) difference at your arrival destination.

If everybody did the right thing there would be no delay, no problems and everybody would be happy.  But, you've got the speed jockeys making journeys hazardous for all.

I hope every speed jockey and careless driver pick up penalty points by the dozen and €80 fines by the score along that stretch. The more the merrier for me. Because of them cars swop paint, people get killed or maimed and what should have been a relatively easy drive turns into a highly stressful occurence.


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## roker (14 Dec 2012)

You are of course correct Leper. but this is what it is all about
The traffic was continuous so the camera must have been going about every 5 second, which is 720 times per hour @ €80 a shot = €57,000 per hour.

they did not stop them speeding, they were still doing it, seeing everyone was doing it, would it not have been more sense to physically warn them at the source.


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## Crugers (14 Dec 2012)

roker said:


> ...they did not stop them speeding, they were still doing it, seeing everyone was doing it, would it not have been more sense to physically warn them at the source...


Laws don't stop you breaking them - they just makes it an offence to do it!

And how do you warn them "at the source"?



roker said:


> ...they have not thought that through


Well I don't know - if you get caught once more will your points tally mean you won't be driving, let alone speeding for an extended period?

There is a simple way to foil their devious underhand GoSafe money making racket...
Slow down!
Simples! Tsch!


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## Leper (14 Dec 2012)

Shushhhhhhhhh Crugers, Ireland needs the money


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## ajapale (14 Dec 2012)

roker said:


> Would it not have been more sense to physically warn them at the source?



I agree, the signs which flash your speed are used at roadworks up and down the country and are very effective. 

Some times, though, its hard to determine whether it is your speed or the guys in front or behind.


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## gianni (16 Dec 2012)

roker said:


> You are of course correct Leper. but this is what it is all about
> The traffic was continuous so the camera must have been going about every 5 second, which is 720 times per hour @ €80 a shot = €57,000 per hour.
> 
> they did not stop them speeding, they were still doing it, seeing everyone was doing it, would it not have been more sense to physically warn them at the source.



Two questions I'd like answered (by someone who may be handier with Google than I!):

1) What does the State pay for the running of the GoSafe system ?
2) How much does the State take in in fines from said cameras ?


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