# With what does Bankrupt AIB plan to pay staff more than statutory redundancy?



## Bronte (12 Apr 2011)

With what does the CEO plan to pay the AIB staff more than statutory redundancy?

Would that be with taxpayers money?


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## Westie123 (12 Apr 2011)

What have they being paying everything else with for the last couple of years??


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## Mopsy (12 Apr 2011)

Branches are still making operating profits which in turns pays the salaries and the pensions to retired bank officials and widows/widowers of same allegedly. If this bank is almost state owned, then the government will have an input into the redundancy issue.

You would not expect these sacrificial lambs who have taken the brunt of sins committed by senior management to leave empty handed? At worst, they would be entitled to statutory redundancy which is the law. Think of the PRSI etc. which has been paid by these officials over the years.


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## ontour (12 Apr 2011)

Mopsy said:


> Branches are still making operating profits.



Have you a citation for branches being profitable?  I know their retail division declare an operating profit if you ignore all the losses.  There was some profit on the sell off of some branches I believe.

Branches are very expensive and generally rely on product sales rather than transactions to make profits.  Given the state of lending, I doubt there is much going on in the way of sales.  Will be interested to see how they are making a profit running branches as banks push customers online.


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## ajapale (12 Apr 2011)

Thread title (original 'AIB stateowned bankrupt bank and redundancy') changed.

Bronte, is the change ok with you? aj


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## Delboy (12 Apr 2011)

the CEO said on radio this morning the package SHOULD be generous as many of the staff have given years of loyal service.....the Variable rate mortgage holders will take another few hits to help pay for it no doubt


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## Panacea (13 Apr 2011)

Surely not Delboy, these increases are to reward us all. The bank even said so themselves 

Article in todays paper quoting yesterdays results conference states that AIB have confirmed that they have plans to increase prices on loans to generate returns that will “reward Irish taxpayers for their support of the bank” but promised to do so in a transparent way.


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## JoeB (13 Apr 2011)

Our government appears completely imcompetent.

They cannot enforce a cap on salaries, despite owning the banks, and the banks are allowed call a bonus something else, and that's fine. How many times now has that happened?, and the Gov think we're all fools and don't notice.

The banks should have been allowed fail, but yet we're still digging a hole.

Pathetic performance all round,..  it's the fact that politicions can lie and nothing happens that causes the problems. Brian Lenehan should be in jail for corruption, or hanged for economic treason, either would be ok by me. 

I don't normally approve of hanging, .. but what Lenehan and Co did is inexecusable in my view. .they deliberately sold our grandchildrens future, possibly to enrich themselves and their cohorts, and they lied about it. Fully deserving of being charged with treason in my view.


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## Bronte (13 Apr 2011)

Mopsy said:


> You would not expect these sacrificial lambs who have taken the brunt of sins committed by senior management to leave empty handed? At worst, they would be entitled to statutory redundancy which is the law. Think of the PRSI etc. which has been paid by these officials over the years.


 
No problem with statutory redundancy. No problem with more than that But why should a bank that is bankrupt pay staff more than that when the money they will use is taxpayers. I'd prefer them to pay back the exchequer. I think the boss has an inordinate amount of cheek to suggest anything else. And as someone whose taxes is going into that bank I'd like to be consulted first.  And of all banks AIB.  Nothing ever changes.


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## frankmac (15 Apr 2011)

Bronte said:


> No problem with statutory redundancy. No problem with more than that But why should a bank that is bankrupt pay staff more than that when the money they will use is taxpayers. I'd prefer them to pay back the exchequer. I think the boss has an inordinate amount of cheek to suggest anything else. And as someone whose taxes is going into that bank I'd like to be consulted first. And of all banks AIB. Nothing ever changes.


 
I agree fully with this. If a private business goes bust then only statutory redundancy is paid. If the business is unable to pay it comes from the social insurance fund. 

Why should a busted bank be any different?


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## Gekko (15 Apr 2011)

The dogs in the street know that the staff will get 6/7 weeks pay per year of service capped at a maximum payoff of 2 years salary.

That's obviously quite a bit better than statutory redundancy (which is 2 weeks pay per year of service plus an extra week).


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## Bronte (8 Jun 2011)

Ireland is really really sick.  We can afford to pay Grant Thornton fees of 1.7 million, we can seemingly pay off the AIB's debts so it is effectively state owned and the staff who brought that bank to it's knees are to be paid up to 10 weeks extra leave, but we cut home carer's allowance, prevent people having operations on time, destroy their lives, if in power hire family members, award pay rises in the semi states, threaten strike action at the very mention of a slight change in work practice in well paid jobs in the old national airline, part state owned, we can threaten to cut the extra Sunday pay for the lowest pay workers and it's all tickedy boo.

Ireland is so fundamentally rotton, uncaring and hateful to it's citizens.  

Not one person has been charged, never mind brought to court or convicted of any crime.  The accountants and lawyers with the nod of the political class are straddled over the carcas of collapsed Irish business eating it's very young, devouring every last morsal with relish, ensuring that they will get richer, dropping intelligent sound bites of how we need cuts while they insulate themselves and legally put the bill on those with nothing and those with nothing who will have even less.   We might as well have Gadaffi here, at least he's honest, he's going to kill every man woman and child who opposes him.  They're doing that in Ireland, but they don't call it genocide here or rape or pillage.  But it surely is the same thing.  Just slower.  Is there not one person to stop this madness.


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## Mpsox (8 Jun 2011)

No unionised bank in Ireland has ever had large scale compulsary redundancies. I believe there is a fear of significant industrial action if AIB went down this route or offered a low package which potentially could result in a national bank strike.

Bear in mind as well that a quick cull could be cheaper in the long run that a long drawn out protracted battle between unions and management

However I also don't accept the arguement that "ordinary" bank staff are totally innocent as to what happened. Plenty of them earned commision for sales of products to people that were unsuitable for their long term needs. I know people in one bank for example whose sole interest was getting a commision and damm the paperwork and damm the risk assessment and management and anyone who argued otherwise, got steamrollered.

As for crimes? Let's be honest here, most of us in Ireland were infected by the madness of the Celtic Tiger, plenty of people made profits from selling property and creating nothing. Yes, there are individuals in certain banks who took greed to an extreme and yes, it would be great to see them locked up (and maybe we will) but if you locked up everyone who helped fuel the mess the country is in, the streets would be very very empty


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## Purple (8 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> Ireland is really really sick.  We can afford to pay Grant Thornton fees of 1.7 million, we can seemingly pay off the AIB's debts so it is effectively state owned and the staff who brought that bank to it's knees are to be paid up to 10 weeks extra leave, but we cut home carer's allowance, prevent people having operations on time, destroy their lives, if in power hire family members, award pay rises in the semi states, threaten strike action at the very mention of a slight change in work practice in well paid jobs in the old national airline, part state owned, we can threaten to cut the extra Sunday pay for the lowest pay workers and it's all tickedy boo.
> 
> Ireland is so fundamentally rotton, uncaring and hateful to it's citizens.
> 
> Not one person has been charged, never mind brought to court or convicted of any crime.  The accountants and lawyers with the nod of the political class are straddled over the carcas of collapsed Irish business eating it's very young, devouring every last morsal with relish, ensuring that they will get richer, dropping intelligent sound bites of how we need cuts while they insulate themselves and legally put the bill on those with nothing and those with nothing who will have even less.   We might as well have Gadaffi here, at least he's honest, he's going to kill every man woman and child who opposes him.  They're doing that in Ireland, but they don't call it genocide here or rape or pillage.  But it surely is the same thing.  Just slower.  Is there not one person to stop this madness.


A master class in the construction of false dichotomies there Bronte. 
We still have twice as many nurses as France, the best paid doctors in Europe (and the best paid consultants in the world) and teachers who are amongst the best paid in Europe. We still have the second shortest school year in the EU (after Greece) and a very short working week generally in the public sector in general and in healthcare in particular (junior doctors excluded). 
What’s the solution to a lack of resources in the public sector? Easy; everyone works a 39 hour week for no extra money. All of a sudden there’s 10-15% more hours available. Problem solved. If things get worse increase it to 45 hours a week for no extra money and cut numbers by 10-15%. Of course those that are laid off would have to get their statutory redundancy but that would be a one off cost. 
Given the above it’s as credible to say that delays in operations are due to the underworked and overpaid medical staff and home carers allowance is being cut due to previous pay increases in the sector that sucked money out of that area. Little  Jonnie with special needs has had his supports cut because teachers took the money for themselves in pay rises. In other words I can link cause and effect to anything that suits my bias just as you can and just as any journalist can.

That clown Fintan O’Toole wrote an article in the Irish Times yesterday ([broken link removed]) suggesting that the country was rolling in money and unless we tax the rich more (you know, the 5% who already pay 50% of the income tax) then we are really just baby killers. The man knows about as much about economics as Jedward do about particle physics. We need to stop the hysterical emotive nonsense and accept that reality isn’t always nice and fairness is in the eye of the beholder.


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## DerKaiser (8 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> A master class in the construction of false dichotomies there Bronte.
> We still have twice as many nurses as France, the best paid doctors in Europe (and the best paid consultants in the world) and teachers who are amongst the best paid in Europe. We still have the second shortest school year in the EU (after Greece) and a very short working week generally in the public sector in general and in healthcare in particular (junior doctors excluded).
> What’s the solution to a lack of resources in the public sector? Easy; everyone works a 39 hour week for no extra money. All of a sudden there’s 10-15% more hours available. Problem solved. If things get worse increase it to 45 hours a week for no extra money and cut numbers by 10-15%. Of course those that are laid off would have to get their statutory redundancy but that would be a one off cost.
> Given the above it’s as credible to say that delays in operations are due to the underworked and overpaid medical staff and home carers allowance is being cut due to previous pay increases in the sector that sucked money out of that area. Little  Jonnie with special needs has had his supports cut because teachers took the money for themselves in pay rises. In other words I can link cause and effect to anything that suits my bias just as you can and just as any journalist can.
> ...



Very good points.

There are a few journalists of Fintan O'Toole's ilk (Shane Ross take a bow) who do not see the irony of themselves.  They portray themselves as some sort of intellectuals (and they seem to actually believe they actually are!), when anyone with even a passing understanding of the subject matter they pontificate on could reduce their arguments to dust.  

I'd call them cynical populists, but I genuinely believe they don't have the intellect to engage in such self serving populism - somehow their intellectually bankrupt interpretations of reality have converged with popular opinion that demands easy answers where none exist.  

If you're looking for easy answers and some egghead with a bow tie and a national platform is peddling them, you can't blame the public for lapping up their drivel - it's out of the sheer desperation of the situation we are in.


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## Chris (9 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> We might as well have Gadaffi here, at least he's honest, he's going to kill every man woman and child who opposes him.  They're doing that in Ireland, but they don't call it genocide here or rape or pillage.  But it surely is the same thing.  Just slower.  Is there not one person to stop this madness.


Now I know you are on a bit of a rant here, but I think think this part goes a bit to far. Comparing the difficulties that Irish people are encountering to rape and pillage is tabloid trash. Have you ever met refugees from war zones and heard their stories first hand? I met a lot of Bosnian refugees in the 90s, and believe me, even the worst affected Irish families are living in a comparative heaven.



Purple said:


> That clown Fintan O’Toole wrote an article in the Irish Times yesterday ([broken link removed]) suggesting that the country was rolling in money and unless we tax the rich more (you know, the 5% who already pay 50% of the income tax) then we are really just baby killers. The man knows about as much about economics as Jedward do about particle physics. We need to stop the hysterical emotive nonsense and accept that reality isn’t always nice and fairness is in the eye of the beholder.



I think that judging O'Toole as a clown is very disingenuous to the clown profession. I have seldom read such utter nonsense filled into one article; I feel nothing but despise for the idiot. It is the typical bovine dung that comes from the socialist idea that financial assets are a public good and not private property. I came a cross a great youtube clip that shows exactly how successful an "eat the rich" policy would be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ
When the last Irish top 100 rich list was published, I did a quick calculation of the wealth of those that were in the country, and I came up with a figure of about €40bn. That would plug the deficit for 2 years; and then what!?!?!


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## DerKaiser (9 Jun 2011)

Chris said:


> Now I know you are on a bit of a rant here, but I think think this part goes a bit to far. Comparing the difficulties that Irish people are encountering to rape and pillage is tabloid trash. Have you ever met refugees from war zones and heard their stories first hand? I met a lot of Bosnian refugees in the 90s, and believe me, even the worst affected Irish families are living in a comparative heaven.


 
I'll agree here. People on the breadline in this country with massive debts who are working their ass off to survive may feel absolutely drained by the experience. 

At the end of the day though there is still comfort that the state (for now) does provide a minimum standard of living through social welfare, the public health system and free education that 90%+ of the world's population would envy.

It's like the pulp song - "you'll never live like common people, if you called your daddy could stop it all". How many Irish people really believe they'll be left to starve or die from disease (by the EU or Ireland) in the event they lose everything? That is one worry we don't have and makes us infinitely better off than people in 3rd world countries.


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## Bronte (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> A master class in the construction of false dichotomies there Bronte.
> We still have twice as many nurses as France, the best paid doctors in Europe (and the best paid consultants in the world) and teachers who are amongst the best paid in Europe. We still have the second shortest school year in the EU .


 

I'll have to look up dichotomies 

Just take that, more nurses than France and our health system is abysmal.  The best paid doctors and nobody can afford to go seem them (except the wealthy and the poor).  And 1 in 5 kids leaves school with out the 3 Rs.  

Sorry for the ranting guys, but the carers programme left me disgusted.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> I'll have to look up dichotomies
> 
> Just take that, more nurses than France and our health system is abysmal.  The best paid doctors and nobody can afford to go seem them (except the wealthy and the poor).  And 1 in 5 kids leaves school with out the 3 Rs.
> 
> Sorry for the ranting guys, but the carers programme left me disgusted.



I agree but why is nobody blaming the nurses, teachers and carers? It's their fault, not the government or some vague group of super rich people that may or may not pay enough tax.


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> A master class in the construction of false dichotomies there Bronte.
> We still have twice as many nurses as France, the best paid doctors in Europe (and the best paid consultants in the world) and teachers who are amongst the best paid in Europe. We still have the second shortest school year in the EU (after Greece) and a very short working week generally in the public sector in general and in healthcare in particular (junior doctors excluded).
> What’s the solution to a lack of resources in the public sector? Easy; everyone works a 39 hour week for no extra money. All of a sudden there’s 10-15% more hours available. Problem solved. If things get worse increase it to 45 hours a week for no extra money and cut numbers by 10-15%. Of course those that are laid off would have to get their statutory redundancy but that would be a one off cost.
> Given the above it’s as credible to say that delays in operations are due to the underworked and overpaid medical staff and home carers allowance is being cut due to previous pay increases in the sector that sucked money out of that area. Little  Jonnie with special needs has had his supports cut because teachers took the money for themselves in pay rises. In other words I can link cause and effect to anything that suits my bias just as you can and just as any journalist can.
> ...



That's a straw man argument Purple.
You're batting back points Bronte didn't raise.
Bronte is quite right in what she posted, and while many of the comments you made appear to be as clever and self-supporting as a good sports bra some of them seem to fall apart under investigation.

Let's look at just one.

You are comparing apples and oranges when you're talking about nurses pay here and elsewhere. You have made no comparative study of the health services, pension and social service entitlements here and abroad, which go some way to take money out of people's pockets and into the state's so it can provide services in ill health and in later life. Here we're supposed to look after these through private means and we haven't or cannot, partly through the situation we're in with mortgages and negative equity.

But let's not descend to the Sarkozy level of criticism, where we criticize an isolated point like corporate tax while ignoring other issues that are relevant.

[broken link removed]

There seems to be a lot of sharp practice in Irish business these days so its no surprise that the mere thought of scrutinising high earners under the guise of asking them to pay more tax, or even pay what they owe to people, would send some of them into an apoplectic fit.

However the fact remains that many of these unqualified successes are still serving on the boards of banks and businesses, still undermining the credibility of our lending institutions and companies and still working to line their nests in the middle of a recession instead of paying their dues.

==============================

I have no problem with asking medical staff to work longer hours, but only in the context of everyone being asked to do so, particularly the directors of financial institutions and companies who seem able to rotate around golden circles on the pretext of bringing grey headed wisdom to 12 and more different companies each year but who in fact, through their incompetence and lack of diligent attention to their duties were the authors of our economic deconstruction.

The perception is that such as these are not suffering at all in the present climate, which has the rest of us on interest only mortgages, suspending our pension payments, cancelling our health insurance and struggling to pay back our loans.

This occurs because of a dearth of profitable work, and where there is work, a plethora of clients who walk away from their debts. Ireland today is rife with real-world sharp practice situations and lies, so please don't bother painting the monied élite as anything other than the self-serving money grubbers that they are.

ONQ.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> That's a straw man argument Purple.
> You're batting back points Bronte didn't raise.
> Bronte is quite right in what she posted, and while many of the comments you made appear to be as clever and self-supporting as a good sports bra some of them seem to fall apart under investigation.
> 
> ...




Details on total healthcare spending here http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1122760&postcount=1
We have a choice between spending the money on services for patients or spending it on wages for the staff providing those services. There has never been a shortage of any medical staff for any area in this country so there is no argument that high wages are or were required to attract or retain staff. There is no distinction between what we pay directly or indirectly through our taxes; the net spend and the net cost is still the same nationally.

There are plenty of threads on this site highlighting the difference between what social services we get and what other EU countries get. In general we spend more and get less. The main reason for this is we spend more per hour for staff than other countries. 

Greece is the only country in the OECD with a shorter school year (total hours worked) yet we pay far more for staff than most other OECD countries.  The net result of this is larger classes and less support services. Given the choice between providing services for children and providing high wages for teachers we chose the latter. If that’s what we want that’s fine but people should stop complaining about outcomes from decisions they have made, i.e. teachers complaining about class sizes and lack of support services because they took a larger slice of the education budget. 





onq said:


> I have no problem with asking medical staff to work longer hours, but only in the context of everyone being asked to do so, particularly the directors of financial institutions and companies who seem able to rotate around golden circles on the pretext of bringing grey headed wisdom to 12 and more different companies each year but who in fact, through their incompetence and lack of diligent attention to their duties were the authors of our economic deconstruction.


 I’d sooner see medical staff working a standard 39 hour week and the powers that be charging some or most of the directors of our financial institutions with reckless trading.  



onq said:


> The perception is that such as these are not suffering at all in the present climate, which has the rest of us on interest only mortgages, suspending our pension payments, cancelling our health insurance and struggling to pay back our loans.
> 
> This occurs because of a dearth of profitable work, and where there is work, a plethora of clients who walk away from their debts. Ireland today is rife with real-world sharp practice situations and lies, so please don't bother painting the monied élite as anything other than the self-serving money grubbers that they are.
> 
> ONQ.


 Who are the moneyed élite? Are all people with money part of this group? (are the 5% who pay 50% of income tax part of it?)


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> Greece is the only country in the OECD with a shorter school year (total hours worked) yet we pay far more for staff than most other OECD countries.  The net result of this is larger classes and less support services. Given the choice between providing services for children and providing high wages for teachers we chose the latter. If that’s what we want that’s fine but people should stop complaining about outcomes from decisions they have made, i.e. teachers complaining about class sizes and lack of support services because they took a larger slice of the education budget.



"There's lies, damned lies, and statistics"

Here is a baseline study:

http://download.ei-ie.org/Docs/WebDepot/Teachers Pay 2008 Report.pdf

Page 11, Par 1.

_"The comparative overview of levels of personal income tax for starting and end-of-career teachers (cf. F6) indicates that deductions from gross wages are highest in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Hungary, Ireland, and Sweden. The lowest levels of personal income tax are reported for starting-career teachers in Greece (5.16 per cent) and Cyprus (7 per cent) and for both categories of teachers in Albania (i.e. 10 per cent), Serbia (12 per cent), Russia (13 per cent), the Czech Republic (15 per cent), Montenegro (15 per cent) and Slovakia (19 per cent). In contrast to the levels of social security contributions where no obvious East–West distinction is observed (between the countries for which data is available), personal income tax levels tend to be lower in the new EU member states and in particular in some of the Eastern European non-EU member states, than Western European EU member states." _

If you look at Table F.7 on P. 12 you'll see that Ireland is the second highest Teaching hours worked in Primary Schools with 28 per week, with only Sweden listed as ahead of us and that's because they reported working hours instead of teaching hours. Anyone knows that teachers put in far more than their teaching hours at Primary and Secondary level.

If you look at Table F.8 Secondary Teaching hours, Ireland is 10th out of 31 countries and is in among a broad swath of countries at around 22 hours a week. Only England & Wales, Germany Georgia and Sweden put in more hours and even then its only around 25 per week, with the previous comment in the paragraph above still applying to Sweden.

I'm questioning your sources, derivative comments and analysis, Purple.

ONQ.


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> Who are the moneyed élite? Are all people with money part of this group? (are the 5% who pay 50% of income tax part of it?)



At least one of them is a former client of mine who has tax exile status.

Is this mythical 5% you post about the remnant who for some reason still pay tax here? Because most of the very rich don't seem to.

ONQ.


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> I’d sooner see medical staff working a standard 39 hour week and the powers that be charging some or most of the directors of our financial institutions with reckless trading.




There is no relation between medical staff working 39 hours and reckless trading - this isn't even a straw man argument.

Is "reckless trading" even a charge on the statute books?
If not then this sentence says nothing at all.

ONQ.


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> There are plenty of threads on this site highlighting the difference between what social services we get and what other EU countries get. In general we spend more and get less. The main reason for this is we spend more per hour for staff than other countries.



I've just dissected one of your posts Purple.

Just because the threads are on AAM doesn't mean they make any more sense than your post.

ONQ.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics"
> 
> Here is a baseline study:
> 
> ...



I wrote about total hours woked per year. You then countered with a post about total hours per week. Strawman?


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## Purple (15 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> There is no relation between medical staff working 39 hours and reckless trading - this isn't even a straw man argument.



I agree, but it was you that made the connection when you said;
_"I have no problem with asking medical staff to work longer hours, but only in the context of everyone being asked to do so, particularly the directors of financial institutions and companies who seem able to rotate around golden circles on the pretext of bringing grey headed wisdom to 12 and more different companies each year but who in fact, through their incompetence and lack of diligent attention to their duties were the authors of our economic deconstruction." _





onq said:


> Is "reckless trading" even a charge on the statute books?.



Yes.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> I've just dissected one of your posts Purple.



That's a matter of opinion.


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> I wrote about total hours woked per year. You then countered with a post about total hours per week. Strawman?



Relevance?


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## onq (15 Jun 2011)

Purple said:


> That's a matter of opinion.



No, thats the lack of a relevant rebuttal on your part.

The study I posted was learned and wide ranging and assessed teaching, working from a broad comparative base.
I request you to post anything remotely as authoritative and wide ranging that supports your position.

Post anything that shows a logical relation - as opposed to your assertion - that mores hours worked per year per teacher equates to smaller classroom sizes.
And while you're at it, show how said teachers working more hours can engage in the necessary course preparation and research that has put Irish education on the front line in the world in real terms.

Or how these now overworked and under-pressure teachers can deliver tuition that assures the same quality of education to smaller classes.
I mean, a "quantity over quality" argument in an educational arena?
Come on!

I'm beginning to think you've confused total hours with teaching hours somewhere back along the line.

Worse I think you've taken stated hours put out by some think tank or department and assumed they bear a relationship to the kind of time teachers put into class preparation and extra-curricular activity supporting their pupils, whether it be games, educational tours, or whatever.
I'm beginning to think that calculating minds like yours are being used to inform government policy and as usual, the quality we have in our educational system at the moment will be sacrificed to some accountants idea of the bottom line.

ONQ.


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## Deiseblue (16 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics"
> 
> Here is a baseline study:
> 
> ...


 
ONQ - your posts on this particular matter have been uniformly excellent.

This post however is for me is particularly eye opening.

Thank you.


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## Chris (16 Jun 2011)

onq said:


> Relevance?



It is hugely relevant. Let's take the numbers you posted earlier for secondary schools in Europe. According to those figures Irish secondary teachers worked an average of 22 hour per week, while German teachers work 25. The annual breakdown would be as follows.

Ireland: 12 weeks summer holidays + two 1 week mid term breaks + 2 weeks Christmas break + 1 week Easter break = 17 weeks holidays or 35 weeks worked = 770 hours

Germany: 6 weeks summer break + 2 weeks autumn break + 2 weeks Christmas break + 2 weeks Easter break = 12 weeks holidays = 40 weeks worked = 1000 hours

That's a huge difference; it is very relevant that German teachers work 30% more per year.


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## Bronte (16 Jun 2011)

Mpsox said:


> No unionised bank in Ireland has ever had large scale compulsary redundancies. I believe there is a fear of significant industrial action if AIB went down this route or offered a low package which potentially could result in a national bank strike.


 
Imagine that a bank strike.  Still doesn't answer the question, with what money can the bank pay above statutory.  Why are bank staff any different to staff in other companies that go bust?  Can taxpayers money being pumped into the banks be used to pay more than statutory redundancy?


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## Sunny (16 Jun 2011)

Bronte said:


> Imagine that a bank strike. Still doesn't answer the question, with what money can the bank pay above statutory. Why are bank staff any different to staff in other companies that go bust? Can taxpayers money being pumped into the banks be used to pay more than statutory redundancy?


 
I work in banking and I agree with you. If bank makes people redundant to cut costs while profitable, they should pay redundancy packages but when they are bust, they are no different to any other company. Same goes for public sector redundancies as well.


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## ajapale (16 Jun 2011)

Sunny said:


> Ok, slightly off topic but ..


 
Off topic posts will be deleted. If you want to discuss teachers then start your own thread and dont hijack this thread which is about how management at distressed AIB propose to pay more than statutory redundancey to their staff.

aj
(moderator)


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## Sunny (16 Jun 2011)

ajapale said:


> Off topic posts will be deleted. If you want to discuss teachers then start your own thread and dont hijack this thread which is about how management at distressed AIB propose to pay more than statutory redundancey to their staff.
> 
> aj
> (moderator)


 
 The thread moved onto teachers long before I introduced it. Check all the posts above that you didn't delete


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