# Sell property without estate agent?



## Eddie Peters (17 Sep 2016)

Can I sell a property without using an estate agent? Advertise it on daft.ie or another site. Would this just require a solicitor to sign off on legal documents. Apologies if this is a ridiculous question but I honestly can't see the need to pay a percentage of the purchase price to an intermediary when I could easily do the job myself. Am I missing something?


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## Gordon Gekko (17 Sep 2016)

No, not at all. If you have the time, go for it.

However, you will miss out on having someone to lie to prospective buyers and generally annoy them with childlike incompetence.

Why did God invent estate agents?
So hookers could have a profession to look down upon.


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## Logo (17 Sep 2016)

Honestly looking for opinions. I'm planning to sell now and buy another property. Just wondering what's the point in paying an estate agent?


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## trojan (17 Sep 2016)

Logo said:


> Honestly looking for opinions. I'm planning to sell now and buy another property. Just wondering what's the point in paying an estate agent?


If you are fully satisfied the price is the best that can be obtained there is no need in my opinion to employ an estate agent. you should make extensive enquiries re recent sales. Please bear in mind you might be able to arrange a special fee with the estate agent.


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## facetious (18 Sep 2016)

Sold my last property without an EA. Got my asking price and was sale agreed in 8 days.

Couldn't have been happier.


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## thedaddyman (19 Sep 2016)

Sold my last house with an EA without him even advertising it, house across the road sold and he went to the under-bidders and we got more then the price we were looking for.

You will need to be able to free yourself up for viewings etc so it is going to be time consuming and I assume you will incur costs if you post it on Daft or Myhome yourself


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Sep 2016)

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I'd love to know the value that an EA can add to the sales process.


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## Steven Barrett (19 Sep 2016)

thedaddyman said:


> You will need to be able to free yourself up for viewings etc so it is going to be timeconsuming and I assume you *will incur costs if you post it on Daft or Myhome yourself*



Don't they charge you for that anyway? 

And isn't myhome.ie just for estate agents and you won't be able to advertise as a private sale


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Gerry Canning (19 Sep 2016)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Maybe I'm too cynical, but I'd love to know the value that an EA can add to the sales process.



If properly advised by you
1. He can sift out the leg lifters/multi-viewers etc.
2. He can give you a real sale value on your house , not a, I heard Jimmy got X 000,s ,so I must get X 000,s.
3. With fee agreed ,you have passed sale process and all its narking over to him/her.
4. He /she knows how to sort out or deal with slippy customers.

ps . Nought wrong with a wee bit of cynicism !


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## cremeegg (19 Sep 2016)

If you have the time to devote to it you can certainly sell a house yourself.



Gerry Canning said:


> 1. He can sift out the leg lifters/multi-viewers etc.



Talk to these people, you never know what you might learn from them. And some of the multi-viewers will eventually buy somewhere



Gerry Canning said:


> 2. He can give you a real sale value on your house , not a, I heard Jimmy got X 000,s ,so I must get X 000,s.



For properties which are similar to a multitude of others, a three bed semi in xtown, or really any house with an address starting with a number, the PRSA website can make you as well informed about sale prices as any EA in a few minutes.

For rural houses where a similar house may not have sold nearby for some time this is more difficult. But if you ask yourself, what can I get in the area for €300k and the answer is lots of properties nicer than mime, then €300k is too much. You can educate yourself quickly, would an EA be better able to value a property, who knows. You can always ask a few EAs to come and look at the house and ask what they suggest as an asking price.



Gerry Canning said:


> 3. With fee agreed ,you have passed sale process and all its narking over to him/her.



True. 



Gerry Canning said:


> 4. He /she knows how to sort out or deal with slippy customers.



What does this mean? They make an offer, you accept the offer, they pay a booking deposit, you send them a contract, they sign the contract. After that there is no slipping, up to that there is no commitment.


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## huskerdu (19 Sep 2016)

I have twice sold houses and been happy to pay an EA to do the leg work. 

If you have time to so all the house viewings and take calls from prospective customers, then go ahead but a lot of people don't. 
I had a full time job and two kids when I was selling our last house. There is no way I would have been able to do all the work involved


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## Eddie Peters (19 Sep 2016)

From my recollection, estate agents used to charge approx 1.5% of the sale price - that's a whopping €3,750 for a €250,000 house! At this stage, I am more concerned about the house appearance during a viewing and reckon that the money might be more constructively used in house redecoration/ leasing of furniture etc. I also think that it's a bit sad that many houses are in better condition when being sold than the time that they were lived in.
I've taken photos and composed a blurb for daft.ie. I plan to have an open viewing for a few hours two days next month. The property is a three-bed semi in an urban area so it's fairly easy to decide a guide price. BTW, I recently attended an open viewing of a property by an well-established estate agent and was surprised to find a young butler-type male show us around (somehow I suspect he would have preferred to have been elsewhere). I was contacted later and was advised that the property had a bid of €XXX. Very shortly after, I was informed (by text) that the asking price had since reduced. The property is still on the market.
I would really appreciate any advice on selling my property directly.
Cheers


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Sep 2016)

Hear hear. I'd back you to do a better job than a spoofer in a shiny suit. I wonder what happened to the phantom bidder?


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## Eddie Peters (19 Sep 2016)

SBarrett said:


> And isn't myhome.ie just for estate agents and you won't be able to advertise as a private sale


I'm not sure what is meant by this comment. I have previously advertised several times on daft.ie for house rentals which is very often used by estate agents (the cost was approx €47 a pop) and never had a problem. Just checked and daft.ie charges €299 for a standard house sale advert.


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## Steven Barrett (20 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> I'm not sure what is meant by this comment. I have previously advertised several times on daft.ie for house rentals which is very often used by estate agents (the cost was approx €47 a pop) and never had a problem. Just checked and daft.ie charges €299 for a standard house sale advert.



You didn't advertise on myhome.ie though. You have to be an estate agent to put up an ad on that site.


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## Eddie Peters (20 Sep 2016)

I take your point now SBarrett. I missed your meaning earlier as I don't generally use myhome.ie to search for property.


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## Grizzly (20 Sep 2016)

I sold my house pre internet days myself. Made my own sign. The Estate Agent's signs on other for sale houses on my road were enough to attract viewers to my house.


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## cremeegg (20 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> From my recollection, estate agents used to charge approx 1.5% of the sale price - that's a whopping €3,750 for a €250,000 house! At this stage, I am more concerned about the house appearance during a viewing and reckon that the money might be more constructively used in house redecoration/ leasing of furniture etc.



An excellent point


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## Eddie Peters (20 Sep 2016)

Does anyone have any ideas of how to approach a solicitor regarding self-sale i.e. do I need to agree terms now wrt agreeing a cost for the job, taking a booking deposit etc.


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## kmick (20 Sep 2016)

I sold an apt myself to the sitting tenant - the solicitor just took the booking deposit of 10%. If I was going the DAFT route of paying 299 I would be buying myself a new phone though. That way when its done you can turn it off. Vistaprint will knock you up a sign for a couple of hundred. Viewings are the same amount of hassle with or without an EA once you are happy to take the calls of interest yourself. Its all very doable.


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## Eddie Peters (20 Sep 2016)

Thanks for that information kmick. Did you have any problems with the legal side - and maybe what costs I might expect.


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## facetious (21 Sep 2016)

When I sold my last property, I didn't bother taking a booking deposit as it is completely refundable if the sale doesn't go through. So hy go to all the hassle - a purchaser may be reluctant to give you a large deposit (usually 10% of the sale price) - but your solicitor may hold it on your behalf.

As regards a solicitor, any solicitor will deal with your conveyancing - some will work on a fixed fee while others will wait until the deal is finished and provide you with an invoice.


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## Sue Ellen (21 Sep 2016)

Be careful when doing viewings as a few friends have mentioned about stuff going missing.  This probably happens more often on open viewings where estate agents hang around the kitchen and people wander freely from room to room.  Best to put valuables and photos away also until after going Sale Agreed.


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## Eddie Peters (21 Sep 2016)

Thanks Sue Ellen for that helpful tip.
I'm not sure if it's okay to make available planning folios and maps, receipts of work carried out during my tenure and an engineer’s report to interested parties. It never made sense to me that each prospective buyer would pay separate engineers to provide reports for the same property (which always have disclaimers that inspections are purely superficial anyway). Or maybe not?


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## Leo (22 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> It never made sense to me that each prospective buyer would pay separate engineers to provide reports for the same property (which always have disclaimers that inspections are purely superficial anyway). Or maybe not?



If I was selling a house, I could get a buddy of mine to sign-off on a report that says everything is in order. If you bought the house, and subsequently found out there were major problems, you'd have no come back. 

Buyers engage their own engineer to protect their interests in what is a very significant transaction. Take a look at the recent thread on here of someone who bought a house based on a BER rating provided by the vendor that they now believe is way off the mark for an example of why you shouldn't take everything a vendor tells you as true.


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## Eddie Peters (22 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> Buyers engage their own engineer to protect their interests in what is a very significant transaction.


I totally agree with you Leo. But would you not have the same come back with an engineer's report supplied by a vendor as you would by a report that was independently carried out?


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## Leo (22 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> I totally agree with you Leo. But would you not have the same come back with an engineer's report supplied by a vendor as you would by a report that was independently carried out?



No, only those employing the engineer would have potential for come back. It also wouldn't be independent, as the engineer producing the report would be employed by the vendor to represent their interests.


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## postman pat (22 Sep 2016)

Gerry Canning said:


> Hear you cremeege,
> 
> Suppose it boils down to , Will seller want the hassle ?



I have to say, up until I was selling a house myself,I thought it would be a piece of cake to sell a house,but having an estate agent is almost essential as they act as a cushion between you and the buyer specially if there are issues with the house title etc, in my case one of the people interested was a complete pain,I would have told them where to go,but on the advice of my estate agent, i took a few deep breaths.... and that person ended up buying the house!.I couldnt really recommend  my estate agent more.


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## Eddie Peters (22 Sep 2016)

postman pat said:


> I thought it would be a piece of cake to sell a house,but having an estate agent is almost essential


€3750 on a €250K house (based on 1.5% of sale price) for the services of an estate agent sounds like an expensive slice of cake


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## thedaddyman (23 Sep 2016)

I saw 2 houses in my area which the owners were trying to sell themselves and they never seemed to move for at least a year. Both were sold in a couple of months once they got a major EA involved.

It's quite possible that some estate agents will be less then 1.5%. It's 9 years ago since I sold but at the time because we simply asked the EA to contact under-bidders for the house across the road, they only charged us 0.75% (and knocked a bit off our neighbours price as well). Some may also repay advertising fees if the house sells.

Perhaps you should get some in if they offer a free valuation and pick their brains and discuss costs with them.

Bear in mind you will have your own costs if you sell it yourself, from online advertising costs, getting signs printed etc to having to make yourself available for viewings regardless of what your personal circumstances are, often at short notice. Outside of Dublin it is still a buyers market and if your house is nothing exceptional, buyers will walk away and move on quite quickly


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## Setanta12 (24 Sep 2016)

The book Freakonomics (or another of that ilk) demonstrated that agents of this type (whether estate agents, or loss-assessors etc etc) always encourage a quicker settlement than if it were their own property - as the marginal returns of waiting-out for the right offer (the extra time and work involved) are outweighed by the returns of settling quickly and moving onto next property / loss  EXCEPT when it comes to their own properties!

Sales of houses belonging to estate-agents take longer to sell than their neighbours'.  The reason for this is ultimately agents (of all types) are looking to their own bottom-line.


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## Eddie Peters (24 Sep 2016)

thedaddyman said:


> Bear in mind you will have your own costs if you sell it yourself, from online advertising costs, getting signs printed etc to having to make yourself available for viewings regardless of what your personal circumstances are, often at short notice.


I was planning on having a few open hour days. The property is located in an estate of city suburb so is relatively easy to value and printing signs would not serve any purpose. The only cost that I'm factoring in is the €299 daft.ie advert plus a few hours here and there for viewings etc.
A recent newspaper article indicated that close proximity to Dunnes Stores, Supervalu, Tesco, Lidi & Aldi stores is a good selling point and worth noting in the advert...


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## Eddie Peters (24 Sep 2016)

Setanta12 said:


> And be ruthless ... ... anyone arriving outside your allotted hours, give them short-shrift.


Of course I will prepare for viewings/ engineer visits outside open house hours by prior arrangement. After all, I am trying to sell to the best bidder so I'll try my best to accommodate within reason (taking time off work etc.). The last time I checked even estate agents had business hours


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## Setanta12 (26 Sep 2016)

cremeegg said:


> Setanta, if you are ever faced with the decision to go with an EA or sell yourself, I strongly suggest that you go with the EA.



If I gave the mistaken impression I was advocating selling oneself - please disabuse yourself of that notion - after all, you know what they say about self-representation in the courts and paraphrasing here ...'the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.'

The point I would like to make is that everyone should rigorously challenge whatever they are told or advised, and not to follow blindly.  

At the end of the day, some people are recognised experts in an area and as a consequence of that may know more than you. You pay their fees and should demand to know the basis for their advice.

(In another field, I had to hire an expert to do some form-filling for me and paid 10% of outcome.  In the end, for two/three hours work, they earned 000's but I have certainty I got best deal)(And yes, I did challenge and went against initial recommendation from the expert, but I have a security of  type knowing the best/complete work was done on my side)


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## KOW (26 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> Can I sell a property without using an estate agent? Advertise it on daft.ie or another site. Would this just require a solicitor to sign off on legal documents. Apologies if this is a ridiculous question but I honestly can't see the need to pay a percentage of the purchase price to an intermediary when I could easily do the job myself. Am I missing something?



Whatever about opinions expressed in replies to date a very important consideration needs to be addressed in relation to interested buyers.Of course with the web anyone can give a sale a go.
Personally I would prefer on my first viewing of a property to keep things at arms length and not too personal. In other words deal with an estate agent. If you dont like the estate agent on a initial viewing so what. I dont think if you were genuinely interested in a property it would prove to be a deal breaker. If you are dealing directly with the owner of the property emotions etc this might proof more difficult.


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## Eddie Peters (26 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> If I was selling a house, I could get a buddy of mine to sign-off on a report that says everything is in order. If you bought the house, and subsequently found out there were major problems, you'd have no come back.
> Buyers engage their own engineer to protect their interests in what is a very significant transaction.


I'm sure that most engineers have disclaimers included in their reports, regardless of buying or selling.
In most cases they will state that inspections are superficial in nature and that areas that are inaccessible can not be reported e.g. a dry rot, drain and chimney inspections, planning matters etc.


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## Eddie Peters (26 Sep 2016)

DCD said:


> Whatever about opinions expressed in replies to date a very important consideration needs to be addressed in relation to interested buyers.Of course with the web anyone can give a sale a go.
> Personally I would prefer on my first viewing of a property to keep things at arms length and not too personal. In other words deal with an estate agent. If you dont like the estate agent on a initial viewing so what. I dont think if you were genuinely interested in a property it would prove to be a deal breaker. If you are dealing directly with the owner of the property emotions etc this might proof more difficult.


I only intend selling a house rather than dating the potential viewers I expect it to be purely professionally based. If I were viewing a property, I would prefer to meet the owner who might have honest feedback on the property rather than an estate agent whose end goal is to simply shift a property.


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## moneybox (27 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> If I was selling a house, I could get a buddy of mine to sign-off on a report that says everything is in order. If you bought the house, and subsequently found out there were major problems, you'd have no come back.



Is it me but I think that is just awful. Building engineers are experts in their field, spend many years studying their professions and are probably registered to some professional body.  Surely they wouldn't risk their professional standing by sign ing off on a 'buddy's' house in the full knowledge that there are defects in the property,  that could potentially cost unsuspecting buyers thousands to remedy.


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## Leo (27 Sep 2016)

moneybox said:


> Is it me but I think that is just awful. Building engineers are experts in their field, spend many years studying their professions and are probably registered to some professional body.  Surely they wouldn't risk their professional standing by sign ing off on a 'buddy's' house in the full knowledge that there are defects in the property,  that could potentially cost unsuspecting buyers thousands to remedy.



Unless you're employing them, you have little or no insight into the terms of reference of the report produced. Unless you actually hire the engineer yourself, you do not have recourse to the complaints procedures.


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## Eddie Peters (28 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> Unless you're employing them, you have little or no insight into the terms of reference of the report produced. Unless you actually hire the engineer yourself, you do not have recourse to the complaints procedures.


Not sure what is meant by the 'terms of reference of the report'. Surely an engineers report is exactly what it says on the tin. What are the chances of employing an engineer to produce a report who will selectively omit major structural defects? Surely they have to sign off on the integral structure of a building... or have we not tightened up on compliance and accountability since the boom?


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## moneybox (28 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> Not sure what is meant by the 'terms of reference of the report'. Surely an engineers report is exactly what it says on the tin. What are the chances of employing an engineer to produce a report who will selectively omit major structural defects? Surely they have to sign off on the integral structure of a building... or have we not tightened up on compliance and accountability since the boom?



Very true, why can't a seller's building report suffice for buyers?  We have a situation in Ireland where individual buyers have to fork out up to 500 euro each for a survey. It's a money spinner for engineers especially in rural areas. Imagine a buyer commissioning an engineer who has already probably carried out one or two surveys on the same property for other interested parties. I wonder what's the situation in relation to building surveys in other countries, I think the seller should provide it and the engineer using his professional competence should be responsible for that report.


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## LS400 (28 Sep 2016)

Completely agree with Moneybox.

I was purchasing an Apt recently, spent the €500 on a buyers report. Serious defects were reported and so I pulled out. The E/A reluctantly refunded the deposit insisting I provide him with the report. No problem there, if he handed over the cost of the report I paid out. Not a chance. The next person will pay over the same amount, for the same defects to be noted again and again.
I am lucky to be able to absorb the costs, What if I was  FIRST TIME BUYER,  how may reports will eat into my hard earned deposit, god knows they have it hard enough...
There should be a basic report on each property, and if the buyer wants to delve in deeper, with a more in dept report, then thats up to them.     

I dont get Leo`s point about how a Qualified Engineers report is only applicable to the person who engaged him, and then to absolve them self of any duty of care to the report for another party. They are Qualified and should not look to hide behind the nearest door which I dont believe they would, and should be given more credit.
Its a very Irish view, in my opinion, looking to see how can I wriggle out of my duty of care.


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## Leo (28 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> Not sure what is meant by the 'terms of reference of the report'. Surely an engineers report is exactly what it says on the tin. What are the chances of employing an engineer to produce a report who will selectively omit major structural defects? Surely they have to sign off on the integral structure of a building... or have we not tightened up on compliance and accountability since the boom?



They will sign a report based on what they were asked to check. The terms or limits of what they were asked to will likely only be clear to the person paying for the service.


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## Leo (28 Sep 2016)

moneybox said:


> Very true, why can't a seller's building report suffice for buyers?



Because no one else has any come back as to the accuracy of the report. Insurance costs alone would make it prohibitive to produce a report that would protect the interests of unspecified third parties.


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## moneybox (28 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> Because no one else has any come back as to the accuracy of the report. Insurance costs alone would make it prohibitive to produce a report that would protect the interests of unspecified third parties.



The engineer using his professional competence should stand by accuracy of his report, I can't see why he shouldn't.  I have a relative, first time buyer who us going through this process at the moment, already paid 480 for one report and the sale has fallen through now having to fork out another 480 for another house. That is a a lot of money for young people down on top of the central bank deposit demand and I feel it is an issue that should be debated more widely. 
 I would like to know how this works in other countries, there has to be a better system else where.


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## Eddie Peters (28 Sep 2016)

Most engineers will have disclaimers included in their reports, regardless of who is paying for the service. In most cases, they will state that inspections are superficial in nature and that areas that are inaccessible can not be reported e.g. a dry rot, drain and chimney inspections, planning matters etc. I don't expect that any of these reports would stand up in a court of law. So I'm just wondering if there is any advantage in a vendor supplying an engineers report to potential buyers.


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## facetious (28 Sep 2016)

Leo said:


> Unless you're employing them, you have little or no insight into the terms of reference of the report produced. Unless you actually hire the engineer yourself, you do not have recourse to the complaints procedures.


A well written report would, in my opinion, state the terms of reference otherwise even a vendor would not know what was included in it. No sense in having a terms of reference and not stating what they are.


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## LS400 (28 Sep 2016)

Disclaimers are thrown around like confetti, in an attempt to weasel out of a competent job. To say, Im not responsible for poor quality of my work as I was only engaged by Mr x is unacceptable.
If a vehicle had under gone extensive suspension work prior to a sale from a reputable garage and this failed causing injury due to shoddy poor work, do you really expect the garage at fault to say, tough, I wasnt engaged by you to carry out the work, and start emailing disclaimers... Its a ridiculous situation to contemplate.

     As I said, why cant a basic report be supplied with a Sellers Pack. The amount of property up for sale which shouldn't be, with problems attached, ie Judgements, structural defects, planning issues etc is shocking. It should be made perfectly clear from the beginning what you are entering into.

The amount of wasted time and money spent on such projects, before it comes to an expected halt, is disgraceful. 

There is no reason why this should not be implemented, it works perfectly well in other countries without the disclaimers been flung about..


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## Leo (29 Sep 2016)

Eddie Peters said:


> However I do have a problem with a service provider who is paid to produce a report that is invalid to anyone except the person who paid for it.



The only alternative then is a massive overhaul of contract law to extend duty of care to unnamed third parties. But expect the cost of surveys to rise into the thousands or more and elements covered to be reduced so as to render them of little value. Also what happens to other service providers costs? You can't just change indemnity law in respect of a small subset.

Buying a house generally involves a commitment of hundreds of thousands of Euros. Spending a few hundred (0.1% or even less of the overall outlay) to get a professional you trust to act in your interest, and only your interest is a small price to pay. Many people happily pay €1-200  getting an inspection carried out before buying a second hand car with far less potential to cripple them financially.

For those unfortunate enough to end up paying for reports on multiple properties, well, if those reports have potentially saved you from making a mistake and purchasing something that might cost you tens of thousands and untold misery down the road, consider it money well spent.


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## LS400 (29 Sep 2016)

No Leo, Thats not good enough. What your saying there is Political Lingo. Make it so complicated, that it will make it unworkable.
If I am selling a €50k vehicle, with an engineers report of suitability, and the vehicle crashes due to worn/damaged brake pipes, which would be a noted under basic inspection, then the onus is on the Engineer for not being competent enough to see such an issue.  

To start saying we would have to rewrite legislation for such matters is ludicrous. An Engineer wont ask me if this report is for me or a third party, as this will depend on the price of the report to cover extra insurance costs.


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## moneybox (29 Sep 2016)

Lots of engineers gaining from the current system, reprinting same reports over and over. Windows need replacing, damp in the chimney, more insulation for attic etc etc.  Why on earth would you need different terms of reference for an ordinary house survey?

At least in UK they making an attempt to go in the right direction.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rty-survey-Now-sellers-must-disclose-all.html


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## facetious (30 Sep 2016)

moneybox said:


> Lots of engineers gaining from the current system, reprinting same reports over and over. Windows need replacing, damp in the chimney, more insulation for attic etc etc.  Why on earth would you need different terms of reference for an ordinary house survey?
> 
> At least in UK they making an attempt to go in the right direction.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rty-survey-Now-sellers-must-disclose-all.html


Because a terms of reference in the report would indicate exactly what was checked (surveyed). Otherwise, a surveyor might just not check some items and the reader of the survey will know what was checked.


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## Leo (30 Sep 2016)

LS400 said:


> No Leo, Thats not good enough. What your saying there is Political Lingo. Make it so complicated, that it will make it unworkable.



What part of it do you think is political? I don't work in this field, so have no vested interest.



LS400 said:


> If I am selling a €50k vehicle, with an engineers report of suitability, and the vehicle crashes due to worn/damaged brake pipes, which would be a noted under basic inspection, then the onus is on the Engineer for not being competent enough to see such an issue.



You do know the person who buys the car has no entitlement to take any action based on a report the seller commissioned?


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## LS400 (30 Sep 2016)

The point I am making is, that the buyer has had a professional in his field, report on the safety of product for sale, to its suitability for purpose. The engineer is not being asked to confirm emissions out-put, or check wear on the engine cylinders. Thats a more in-dept report and would be up to the buyer to investigate at his own cost. 
The bottom line remains the same, he has had the benefit of knowing he has less chance of buying a pig in a poke, for the want of a better word.

The political remark refers to the point of the Government making a mountains out of a mole hills, who cant seem to make a cup of tea without an expert committee forming.


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## LS400 (30 Sep 2016)

Your right, Its too complicated for us to sort out.
Lets leave it to other Countries to lead the way.

I can assure you, with a little cop-on, this could could be introduced in the near future without all the negatives.


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## Leo (30 Sep 2016)

LS400 said:


> The point I am making is, that the buyer has had a professional in his field, report on the safety of product for sale, to its suitability for purpose. The engineer is not being asked to confirm emissions out-put, or check wear on the engine cylinders. Thats a more in-dept report and would be up to the buyer to investigate at his own cost.



But the same applies in this example, if the buyer didn't commission the report, they have no come back against the engineer if the car turns out to be a dud. 



LS400 said:


> The political remark refers to the point of the Government making a mountains out of a mole hills, who cant seem to make a cup of tea without an expert committee forming.



I hear you, but I think the real issue preventing a simple fix is liability & insurance. I just don't know how you resolve that without professional services prices rocketing, or the content and scope of such reports being watered down to the point where they have no value. 

For someone selling a house, a car, or whatever, and providing a report stating the condition of that item, how do they deal with the resulting personally liable if something goes wrong? I just think the current caveat emptor arrangement we have works better than everyone selling something having to line the pockets of the insurance companies or face potential financial ruin when it all goes wrong.


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## LS400 (30 Sep 2016)

Hi Leo

I think Im probably sounding off due to the cost on fees which I have paid out on, and felt were very avoidable had some basic property information been made available which rendered the sale null and void on a number of occasions this year.
I did, and do see your point though, its just frustrating that there is not a simpler way.


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## Leo (3 Oct 2016)

A workable improvement might be putting the onus on the vendor to ensure the property was fully compliant ion terms of planning, and that they had full and clear title to the property before putting it on sale. The latter would have saved me a few thousand when buying my place!


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## Eddie Peters (23 May 2017)

Last year I intended selling my house by private sale but it wasn't put on the market at that time. However I plan to sell this year - without an estate agent (and without an engineer's report). However I've been quoted solicitor fees of €2500 plus VAT @23% plus land registry fees, contracts, queries, searches etc. - which could cost in the region of €4K. Does anyone know if this is reasonable? I always expected the purchaser to pay a solicitor for most of the work.
Thanks.


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## noproblem (23 May 2017)

What do you mean by you expect the purchaser to pay a solicitor for most of the work? He'll pay his solicitor to get title to your house and whatever other fees his solicitor has. He won't be paying any of your fees, believe me. You're the one trying to sell, just make sure YOU have everything  in order inc certificate of compliance, etc, etc, etc. The advice you get on this forum will guide you but won't suffice if you need maps, planning certs, reports, BER Cert, bank clearance, and all the rest. There's a reason they're qualified as engineers and lawyers.


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## Eddie Peters (23 May 2017)

I do realise that I will need to pay a solicitor for certificates of compliance, draft of sale, pre-contract enquiries, review of deeds, indemnity insurance to deal with purchasers bank and solicitor, certificate of title, BER cert, LPT compliance etc. (most of which I have on file). But as most of these checks have been relatively recently carried out - do you think that approx €4K is reasonable?


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## delfio (23 May 2017)

Eddie Peters said:


> I do realise that I will need to pay a solicitor for certificates of compliance, draft of sale, pre-contract enquiries, review of deeds, indemnity insurance to deal with purchasers bank and solicitor, certificate of title, BER cert, LPT compliance etc. (most of which I have on file). But as most of these checks have been relatively recently carried out - do you think that approx €4K is reasonable?



€4K for selling a house seems astronomical to me.  If a person has the correct certification, planning, title, deeds and all the relevant certificates of discharge in place, why would a solicitor charge so much for selling?  A person buying has an average cost of €2.5k, why is it nearly double for selling?


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