# UK Driving License



## biddy123 (26 Feb 2019)

Just heard that if a no deal brexit goes ahead, UK licenses wont be valid in Ireland. I have a UK full drivers license for years, and don't want to give it up unless I have to. Has anyone changed theirs yet?


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## Saavy99 (26 Feb 2019)

They won't be no hard Brexit so don't be stressing


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## Páid (26 Feb 2019)

The advice is to exchange your licence now - [broken link removed]


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## Gervan (26 Feb 2019)

What address do you have on the UK licence? 
I changed to an Irish licence in 2011 after discovering I shouldn't be using my UK one with an address I hadn't lived at for decades.


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## biddy123 (26 Feb 2019)

My uk address is on the licence, and was told when we moved home 14/15 years ago to write in my Irish address on it.


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## meepman (26 Feb 2019)

Páid said:


> The advice is to exchange your licence now - [broken link removed]



Interesting that. Is that fact as I haven't heard of the insurance companies contacting drivers to warn them?


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## Páid (26 Feb 2019)

It's coming from the National Driving Licence Service.


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## meepman (26 Feb 2019)

Páid said:


> It's coming from the National Driving Licence Service.



I see that but I would have thought all the UK licence holders in ireland would have been contacted by their insurance companies, as there will be a hell of a lot of illegally insured drivers out there if this fact is true.


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## Jim2007 (26 Feb 2019)

meepman said:


> Interesting that. Is that fact as I haven't heard of the insurance companies contacting drivers to warn them?



It is your responsibility ensure you have a valid driving license, the insurance companies are not you minder.


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## meepman (26 Feb 2019)

Jim2007 said:


> It is your responsibility ensure you have a valid driving license, the insurance companies are not you minder.



There are plenty of 'facts ' being bandied about over brexit. As someone already said, money racket springs to mind.
Surely insurance companies should ensure whoever they are insuring is legal? No?


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## Saavy99 (26 Feb 2019)

People should wait and see what happens before wasting their money. There already talks of delaying Brexit by two years so people really need to calm down.


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## HollowKnight (26 Feb 2019)

I work in an optometrist clinic near a ndls office. It has been noticeably busier with people coming in to confirm their vision is good enough to drive to convert their Uk licence to an Irish one.


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## Jim2007 (26 Feb 2019)

meepman said:


> Surely insurance companies should ensure whoever they are insuring is legal? No?



Read your policy, you will find that it is your responsibility to ensure you meet the licence requirements, just as it is your responsibility to disclose any pertinent information even of not asked.  And in the case of car insurance, I believe you are covered if you ever held a valid licence, so they are even less concerned about it than you think.

Somewhere I can a cross a comment from a German policeman on an expat forum concerning license validity, which is a good rule of thumb:  "If your licensing authority does not allow you to enter your current address as the address for your licence, then it is very unlike that it is valid and if stopped in the EU, you are like to face a fine of some sort, because it is usually a basic requirement of the authority that they can contact you at the address given for your licence."


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## Leo (26 Feb 2019)

Not sure how long ago it was introduced, 2015 I think, but UK licences are no longer valid if the holder does not reside at the address specified. It's a £1,000 fine if found driving on a licence with an out of date address in the UK, here, the licence could be assumed as invalid, thus voiding your insurance.


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## Tebbit (27 Feb 2019)

Hang onto your English licence 'till you're told otherwise.


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## Páid (27 Feb 2019)

meepman said:


> I see that but I would have thought all the UK licence holders in ireland would have been contacted by their insurance companies, as there will be a hell of a lot of illegally insured drivers out there if this fact is true.


If there is a material change affecting the insured person (i.e. their licence becomes invalid) they have a fiduciary duty to inform their insurance company.

The insurance companies seem to be more interested in Irish drivers driving in the UK and providing green cards to them.


https://www.axa.ie/other/green-card/


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## Jim2007 (27 Feb 2019)

Tebbit said:


> Hang onto your English licence 'till you're told otherwise.



You won’t be told, it’s your responsibility to ensure you have the appropriate driving license and sense the address on the license is invalid in the first place, no one could contact them in any case.  Dumb advice.


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## Feemar5 (27 Feb 2019)

I don't know anything about insurance but I would advise anyone swapping their UK licence for an Irish one to check if they are entitled to the same class of licence.   I know somebody who changed their licence abut 7 years ago and the person involved had a license that covered driving trucks in the Uk but he only got a basic licence to drive cars in return


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## Páid (28 Feb 2019)

Feemar5 said:


> I don't know anything about insurance but I would advise anyone swapping their UK licence for an Irish one to check if they are entitled to the same class of licence.   I know somebody who changed their licence abut 7 years ago and the person involved had a license that covered driving trucks in the Uk but he only got a basic licence to drive cars in return


From the link I posted above.


> In such a case the driver will have all valid licence categories on their driver licence included on the Irish licence. There are some limited exceptions where what are known as national licences categories cannot be transferred to the Irish licence. You may need to speak to the DVLA to find out if you have any national categories on your UK licence.


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## Drakon (28 Feb 2019)

biddy123 said:


> Just heard that if a no deal brexit goes ahead, UK licenses wont be valid in Ireland. I have a UK full drivers license for years, and don't want to give it up unless I have to. Has anyone changed theirs yet?


I thought a foreign licence was only valid for the first six months of residency in a new country?
A friend of mine moved to The Netherlands and had been driving on an Irish licence for years. He happened to be asked for his licence at a police checkpoint one day on which he produced his Irish licence. They asked him how he’d been lining in the Netherlands and he said over three years. They informed him that he’d been driving illegally and with no insurance for over 2.5 years. They took his details and postponed prosecution for a few weeks, giving him time to get a valid license and insurance. He did this, brought it to the police station, so then shelved his prosecution. 
Ignorance is no excuse!


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## Jim2007 (28 Feb 2019)

Drakon said:


> I thought a foreign licence was only valid for the first six months of residency in a new country?
> A friend of mine moved to The Netherlands and had been driving on an Irish licence for years. He happened to be asked for his licence at a police checkpoint one day on which he produced his Irish licence. They asked him how he’d been lining in the Netherlands and he said over three years. They informed him that he’d been driving illegally and with no insurance for over 2.5 years. They took his details and postponed prosecution for a few weeks, giving him time to get a valid license and insurance. He did this, brought it to the police station, so then shelved his prosecution.
> Ignorance is no excuse!



Same thing happened to a work colleague of mine from the UK.  Except in his case it was not possible to swap the license as it must be done within the first 12 months of residency here in Switzerland.  Cost him CHF 540 in fines and administration, plus mandatory driving lessons and having to take the driving test.


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## PM9999 (28 Feb 2019)

I'm about to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one. I've been resident here for 4 years and using my UK licence without problem. NDLS rules here https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-fore...-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area and I quote "If you have a driving licence issued by an EU/EEA member state *you can drive in Ireland as long as your existing licence is valid*. If you wish to exchange your driving licence for an equivalent Irish driving licence, you must do so within 10 years of your driving licence expiring." (My emphasis).

Paul


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## Jim2007 (28 Feb 2019)

PM9999 said:


> I'm about to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one. I've been resident here for 4 years and using my UK licence without problem. NDLS rules here https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-fore...-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area and I quote "If you have a driving licence issued by an EU/EEA member state *you can drive in Ireland as long as your existing licence is valid*. If you wish to exchange your driving licence for an equivalent Irish driving licence, you must do so within 10 years of your driving licence expiring." (My emphasis).
> 
> Paul



And the key point that you highlighted is that the licence must be valid.  A UK license requires a valid UK address.... That was exactly why my colleague got done - he no longer had a valid UK address.


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## Leo (28 Feb 2019)

Jim2007 said:


> That was exactly why my colleague got done - he no longer had a valid UK address.



Exactly, and you must be living at that UK address, not just know someone at it who'll forward any post.


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## PM9999 (28 Feb 2019)

Sorry, but I continue to disagree. See 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving-licence/driving-licence-recognition-validity/index_en.htm

"Validity" is based on date validity, not address.

The DVLA in the UK does fine people £1000 for not advising of a change of address. In the applicable legislation for this, it then goes on to say that it cannot apply a foreign address to a UK licence, and that people who move abroad must "contact the local licensing authority". It (DVLA) does not, however, revoke or invalidate UK licences where holders move abroad.

I suspect we will continue to disagree about this, but I have an appointment at NDLS next week and will ask the question as to whether they consider my UK licence used here for 4 years as invalid. I'll let you know.

Paul


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## Drakon (1 Mar 2019)

PM9999 said:


> Sorry, I suspect we will continue to disagree about this, but I have an appointment at NDLS next week and will ask the question as to whether they consider my UK licence used here for 4 years as invalid. I'll let you know.
> 
> Paul



Good luck with that. I’d an appointment with the NDLS yesterday to change the address on my driving licence. At the time of the booking I checked the NDLS FAQ online. There are reams of Q’s, I didn’t read them all. Just the “What Do I Bring With Me?”, which stayed for a change of address, just my current DL and proof of address.

Arrive in, there were numerous signs all over the place, rather than just one clear one covering everybody.
When I got the the counter I needed a completed application form as though I was a first time applicant and a hard copy proof of address (not an online one). None of this was mentioned on the FAQ.  Then noticed numerous signs about workplace respect and not giving the staff grief. 
Such a badly run operation, and there’s no smoke without fire. 
By chance I happened to have the stub to a recent new Credit Card which he accepted.
I’d have been well slashed off if I was refused a change of address as I’d checked and double checked that useless FAQ.


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## PM9999 (1 Mar 2019)

And, at the risk of doing this to death and boring the pants off everyone, I asked AGS Traffic Division and NDSL by email today what their view was on the ongoing use of another EU state licence, without specifically identifying a UK licence (to avoid the possibility of Brexit clouding the general principle). I did bring out the "wrong address" issue. No reply yet from NDSL, but I was surprised at the response from AGS given that they would be the likeliest to be at the sharp end of any problems. Question and AGS answer below:

"_Hi

I'm a national of another EU state, but now normally resident in Ireland. I hold a full driving licence from this other state that expires in June 2022. The authorities there cannot amend my details on the licence to show my Irish address, so it shows my last address when I lived there before moving to Ireland. On looking at the guidance notes at https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-fore...-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area
I interpret this as saying I am permitted to drive in Ireland using my old licence until expiry in 2022, at which point I would plan to exchange it for an equivalent Irish licence.
Do you agree that my interpretation is correct and do you have any further comments/advice?
Thanks"

"Dear Paul

With reference to the above An Garda Síochána does not offer guidance with regards to these matters. You can contact the roads safety Authority or the NDLS

Sent on behalf of Superintendent xxxxxx
Jennifer xxxxxxx
DMR Roads Policing Division
Dublin Castle
Dublin 2
*RoadsPolicing_DS@garda.ie"
_


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## Buddyboy (1 Mar 2019)

PM99999,
but isn't that the problem   "I'm a member of another EU State"?  After Brexit, the UK will not be a member of the EU and therefore that doesn't apply.


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## PM9999 (1 Mar 2019)

Yes, I understand that and it's why I will begin to change my licence next week.

The stuff immediately above is in respect of my exchanges with others in this thread where I questioned the general idea that a UK licence is currently  invalid (pre Brexit) as it shows the old UK address. I'm trying to discover what the powers that be think in that respect.

Paul


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## Buddyboy (1 Mar 2019)

Sound,thanks Paul, only dipping in and out of this thread, so didn't pick up on that.

A colleague reported a long line out the door of the Driving Licence centre in Cork today as she passed.


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## Drakon (4 Mar 2019)

Buddyboy said:


> Sound,thanks Paul, only dipping in and out of this thread, so didn't pick up on that.
> 
> A colleague reported a long line out the door of the Driving Licence centre in Cork today as she passed.


When I first got “the latest” driving licence when they first came out about fives years ago it was like that. 
And when I moved house four years ago it was like that so I didn’t bother updating my address. 
And when I went to book an appointment last month there were no appointments available, just the rock up and queue option. 
So I went to Mallow. Two staff, same number of applicants. Nightmare none the less. 
I wouldn’t read into an NDLS queue being Brexit related.


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## Drakon (4 Mar 2019)

By the way, there is a Brexit section to the NDLS FAQ...

... pause for laughter.


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## Redshoes (5 Mar 2019)

I'm driving in Ireland on a Norwegian license.  Out of interest the license has no address on it, there is no place on the license for an address.
Also, the expiration date on the license is 100 years from my date of birth.   Hope to be clear eyed and competant when I'm a 100!


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## Purple (6 Mar 2019)

Redshoes said:


> the expiration date on the license is 100 years from my date of birth.


Bit is a pain for 100 years olds to have to renew their license... bloody Norwegians...


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## peemac (6 Mar 2019)

I've a paper uk license valid til I'm 70.

Was asked for license at a checkpoint  showed the uk license  Said I'll be exchanging it soon. 

He asked why I'd do such a thing - "sure that's more valuable than gold" were is exact words.


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## elefantfresh (8 Mar 2019)

Ok, so this is directly from the horses mouth


I just rang the NDLS with multiple questions and got through to a very helpful chap


*What does “exchange licence” mean* – it means you must surrender your UK licence – meaning you now have the same issue with driving in the UK in the future – I told the man I have had my licence for 30 years and don’t wish to surrender – you’re allowed two passports but he said you are not allowed two licences


*When do I need to apply* – the clock will start ticking the day you enter the centre ie: if you walk into the centre on the 28th March, that’s fine – excluding it will be madness in there of course


*What happens in the interim* – while you do not have a licence for either UK or EU during the application process, you technically could get done by a bad cop – but the man says it really would need to be a bad one under the circumstances of Brexit etc


Finally, he gave me his opinion and he was very clear that it was his opinion and not that of the NDLS centre

“There are 100s of thousands of people in your situation, both sides of the border. There are 100s of thousands of truckers crossing into EU/UK border every day of the week. It is beyond doubt that the EU and UK governments will come to an accord on the licence situation otherwise the food will stop. My personal belief is that IF THERE IS NO DEAL BREXIT (which is already probably not going to be the case – its looking like an extension) then both sides will agree to a 12 month temporary amnesty agreement until documentation can be drawn up to make things permanent”


Now, with all that said, if the worst comes to the worst and they leave with no deal on 29th March, as it currently stands, you will not be able to drive and it will be too late to exchange your licence.

You would need to sit the theory test, do 12 professional lessons then do your test

And who would truly trust a politician to sort this mess out ASAP? Would you gamble your licence?

So the smartest thing to do in my opinion is sit tight til 3rd week in March and see what is happening with Brexit and make a decision then


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## PM9999 (8 Mar 2019)

Some observations on system/process for anyone contemplating exchange. Wife & I exchanged our licences yesterday at Longford. We had pre - booked appointments, one at 9am the next at 9:10am. These were the first two slots of the day and we arrived on time. Despite having 100% correct forms, all supporting docs etc, it took half an hour for each of us. There was only one operative on duty and he bemoaned the fact that he was allocated only 10 mins per appointment. Brexit exchanges had increased his workload enormously. We both felt quite sorry for the guy. We left at 10am, and there were 5 "walk ins" waiting to be seen. The overhead screen showed an estimated 2 hour wait for person no. 5. (There was a 2nd booth to process applications, but no sign of any other NDLS staff on duty.)

A word of warning. If you passed your UK test in the 80s, you will have, as I did, categories C1E, D1 and D1E on your licence, but with restriction codes. On checking his (enormous) exchange procedure manual, our NDLS guy told me that these will not transfer across due to the restrictions.

More than anything else, if you do decide to change, I would advise appointment pre - booking and a thorough check of all forms & document requirements.

Paul


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## marzic (14 Mar 2019)

I rang the NDLS at the end of 2018 and asked about exchanging my uk licence for an irish one. The bit that put me off was that, though I've held a uk licence for 21 years, my new irish licence would not reflect that in any way. This is karma... I exchanged my Irish licence for a uk one in 1998 when I lived there!

My concern was that when I went to renew my insurance and was asked "what type of licence do you hold and how long have you held it?" I would have to say "a full irish licence which I have had for 6 months". Today I rang the Insurance Ireland (the federation of insurance companies) and relayed my concern but was assured that if it happened that my premium was affected to get back to Insurance Ireland and they would sort it out - on the basis of my being an experienced driver having held a full uk licence for 21 yrs previous.

I havent exchanged it yet...


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## huskerdu (14 Mar 2019)

marzic said:


> I rang the NDLS at the end of 2018 and asked about exchanging my uk licence for an irish one. The bit that put me off was that, though I've held a uk licence for 21 years, my new irish licence would not reflect that in any way. This is karma... I exchanged my Irish licence for a uk one in 1998 when I lived there!
> 
> My concern was that when I went to renew my insurance and was asked "what type of licence do you hold and how long have you held it?" I would have to say "a full irish licence which I have had for 6 months". Today I rang the Insurance Ireland (the federation of insurance companies) and relayed my concern but was assured that if it happened that my premium was affected to get back to Insurance Ireland and they would sort it out - on the basis of my being an experienced driver having held a full uk licence for 21 yrs previous.
> 
> I havent exchanged it yet...


I know someone who did this a number of years ago. It was very easy to sort out. From memory, NDLS issued a letter to the effect that a valid UK license was held for x number of years. This was acceptable to the insurance company.


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## newtothis (14 Mar 2019)

marzic said:


> My concern was that when I went to renew my insurance and was asked "what type of licence do you hold and how long have you held it?"



That's not the case. The question is normally phrased along the lines of "How long have you held a full license", not how long you've held your current one. It's not an issue.


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## marzic (14 Mar 2019)

newtothis said:


> That's not the case. The question is normally phrased along the lines of "How long have you held a full license", not how long you've held your current one. It's not an issue.


No it is the case, in my case - I can understand the questions i get asked by the words that they use! 


huskerdu said:


> I know someone who did this a number of years ago. It was very easy to sort out. From memory, NDLS issued a letter to the effect that a valid UK license was held for x number of years. This was acceptable to the insurance company.


Thank you, this is helpful, I was not given this info but I didnt specifically ask for that assurance


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## huskerdu (14 Mar 2019)

marzic said:


> No it is the case, in my case - I can understand the questions i get asked by the words that they use!
> 
> Thank you, this is helpful, I was not given this info but I didnt specifically ask for that assurance



But, even if they worded the question " How long have you had your license", they more than likely, really want to know " How long have you had a valid license?".  

The full and accurate answer in either case is " I have an Irish license since xxx, but I have had a UK License for 15 years prior to that".


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## newtothis (14 Mar 2019)

huskerdu said:


> But, even if they worded the question " How long have you had your license", they more than likely, really want to know " How long have you had a valid license?".
> 
> The full and accurate answer in either case is " I have an Irish license since xxx, but I have had a UK License for 15 years prior to that".



Exactly, but I don't think they expect such a pedantic answer. What they want to know is how long have you held a full Irish or UK license. Answer: 10 years, or whatever it is.


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## mathepac (16 Mar 2019)

See the ads from NDLS in this week-end's Irish papers (bottom of page 11 in the IT)


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## elefantfresh (22 Mar 2019)

Looks like they're stalling again - I was going to kick off the licence exchange tomorrow but definitely holding off now.
This daft process might never happen at all at this rate.


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## marzic (21 Oct 2019)

Did any of you take the plunge? I have the form filled out...


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## Drakon (23 Oct 2019)

What’s the advantage of having a UK licence anyway? More police checks if you happen to drive in the six counties?


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## marzic (23 Oct 2019)

Drakon said:


> What’s the advantage of having a UK licence anyway? More police checks if you happen to drive in the six counties?


I dont get points for traffic offences - now saying that, I have had just two traffic offences in the time since points were introduced (2002)


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## Sconeandjam (9 Jan 2020)

Do you need to change your uk licence to Irish now? Any update on this please? Getting conflicting views on needing to change before the end of Jan or end of December 2020.

Also will be loosing some driving classes by changing over to Irish licence.

Marzic
If you get points here you will pay a fine and points information will be held. This information is held for 6years I think so if you change to an Irish licence within that time they will then be added. After 6years you get a letter saying they are now removed.


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## PM9999 (10 Jan 2020)

My understanding is as follows:

Providing the withdrawal agreement is finally passed, licences will continue to be mutually recognised during the transition period. This is currently until 31/12/2020. At that point, there is either a deal, no deal or an extension to the transition period. My GUESS (and it is just that) is that: a deal will probably include ongoing licence recognition, but this is not certain; no deal will almost certainly mean *no* continuing licence recognition; an extension will mean the mutual recognition continues during the extended withdrawal period, but with ongoing doubt about what happens at the end of transition. If you plan to continue living and driving in Ireland and can live with the category losses, the path of least pain would seem to be to exchange your UK licence to Irish sooner rather than later.

 If I was a betting man, I would probably put my 50 cents on the withdrawal agreement clearing the UK parliament (it's already through the Commons) and that the UK toddles off out of the EU via the agreed transition on 31/1/2020. I would not put anything on any of the possible outcomes at 31/12/2020 - it's far too uncertain.

Paul


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