# Is clocking a car illegal?



## LDFerguson (29 Sep 2008)

I thought that clocking a car (turning back the odometer so that it shows a lower mileage in order to inflate the price) was illegal.  But in today's press release from the National Consumer Agency, they say that they "formed the view that Airport Used Cars Centre Limited, 508 Woodpark, Ballinteer Road Dublin 16, (trading at Old Airport Road, Cloughran, County Dublin) had been engaging in misleading commercial practices by selling or offering for sale used motor vehicles with altered /reduced odometer readings (clocked cars).  

The dealer must pay compensation to the owners of affected cars but that seems to be it.  

This seems very easy going - how do we know which cars were affected?  Should there not be a prosecution?


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## Jock04 (29 Sep 2008)

There was a similar case in Galway recently, but due to lack of service records, garage was able to claim (maybe rightly, who knows!) that any clocking must have been done by the previous owners.

I think the outcome was the same - pay compo, end of story.

Which, to me, would probably make it a worthwhile risk for dodgy car dealers. 

I feel the need to wash my hands after just typing about it!


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## Caveat (29 Sep 2008)

Surprised at this too.

From the same PR, I love this bit:

_*"As a means of ensuring that the company would refrain from selling clocked cars in the future, the Agency has sought and obtained a formal undertaking from Airport Used Cars Centre Limited."*_

Well that's it then, sorted eh? 

_Edit: BTW, when looking at cars earlier in the year,2 of 5 of the cars I had considered (all different parts of the country, rural & urban) turned out "likely to have been clocked" on further inspection/investigation!_


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## Simeon (29 Sep 2008)

Why not do the same as in the States ......... the mileage is displayed on the Title Application form (log book). This is confirmed to state of residence, so there is a central computer record. However, if someone is hell bent on fiddling there is little that can be done. A fine of up to $5'000 would put most people off. A decent fitter would be able to confirm any tampering.


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## LDFerguson (29 Sep 2008)

I heard it on the radio news today, so presumably the poor publicity won't help the business, but sadly people have short memories.


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## DeclanP (29 Sep 2008)

Clocking cars is a profession for some and many garages use this service before putting cars on display. There are some tell tale signs of wear and tear which do not match the mileage on the car but these are only obvious to people in the profession. Personally I wouldn't have a clue if a car had done 50,000 or 150,000 and a lot would be in the same boat. Tis a wicked world out there.


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## Vanilla (30 Sep 2008)

I imagine it would be fraud which can be prosecuted by the gardai and breach of contract/misrepresentation to anyone who bought one.


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## CJESSIE (30 Sep 2008)

HI All
Can anyone tell me how to go about getting your car checked. My
Sister in law bought a Vauxhall Astra 02 from this dealer.


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## starlite68 (30 Sep 2008)

i knew a guy some years back who clocked cars for a living..mostly for garages..he used to get 50 pounds old money for each one...anyway he was caught and ended up in court,the owner of the car was also in court as a witness,but the judge let him off with a warning because the car owner said it was the best car he ever bought and was delighted with it.
true story.


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## Rois (30 Sep 2008)

I thought the new style digital odometers are impossible to clock - unlike the clocks on older cars.  Is there any truth in this?


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## Caveat (30 Sep 2008)

More difficult probably, but by no means impossible.


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## starlite68 (30 Sep 2008)

Rois said:


> I thought the new style digital odometers are impossible to clock - unlike the clocks on older cars. Is there any truth in this?


 the digital ones are easy..you can buy a small handheld gizmo for about 100 euro..plug it into your car and put whatever milage you like on the clock!


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## Lollix (30 Sep 2008)

It's illegal, but common. I've seen a jeep around several times with a sign on it offering odometer recalibration. I'm sure that the legitimate use of this service is a limited enough need; they would have to be getting a lot of clocking business to keep busy.
It would be easy to stamp it out, by putting the mileage on the central database in Shannon at change of ownership time. The reluctance of the government to do this, despite frequent requests, seems to suggest that the motor industry lobby don't want to see it done.


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## starlite68 (30 Sep 2008)

as far as i know milage is recorded and printed on the cars NTC cert each time its tested, so it would be possible to tell from the current cert if it had one.


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## Lollix (30 Sep 2008)

Problem is, the NCT test centres don't make the data available to the vehicle reg centre in Shannon. That would solve it in one move, but I'm afraid it'll be like integrated ticketing for Dublin transport -- some consultant will have to get twenty million before it happens.
Common sense ain't all that common!


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## hhhhhhhhhh (30 Sep 2008)

Lollix said:


> It's illegal, but common. I've seen a jeep around several times with a sign on it offering odometer recalibration. I'm sure that the legitimate use of this service is a limited enough need; they would have to be getting a lot of clocking business to keep busy.


it's not illegal to change a car mileage reading, the crime is fraud, in selling a car with a known false mileage.


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## Lollix (1 Oct 2008)

I stand corrected. It is of course permissable to reset a new odometer to the original mileage, but the OP referred to "clocking", which I understand to mean reducing the reading in order to commit a fraud.
I doubt very much if there would be a full time business in resetting replacement odometers to the correct mileage, but I could be wrong.


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## starlite68 (1 Oct 2008)

no..i would think you are right.


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## Paulone (6 Oct 2008)

I read in a UK car magazine once that a mechanic took an (old-fashioned, analogue) speedometer out of a car to repair it and found a jam label on the back saying 'oh no...  not again'.

On an older car, potential clocking problems might exist if the numbers on the odometer don't line up properly. On a newer car with a digital readout, it can be a lot harder to spot.

As the owner of a fairly well-kept high mileage car, telltale signs are increased wear on the drivers seat compared to the others, a shiny gear knob, steering wheel and wear on the pedal rubbers.

Not at all a precise guide but if the car is low, low mileage for it's age, suspect that also. I read in the same magazine that car clockers tend to overdo it somewhat, meaning that the cars they fiddle with often end up displaying a mileage considerably less than the 10-12000 odd miles per year which is an accepted average.


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## Sylvester3 (6 Oct 2008)

A guy at work has told me of a reverse variation of this that he has come across in the trade. When importing second hand cars, people in the know have massively increased the digital speedo (easy to do seemingly) to reduce the value of the vehicle for VRT purposes and then returned it to normal when they have it registered.


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## starlite68 (6 Oct 2008)

thats very true...they also change expencive trim like leather seats ect,to keep the VRT as low as possible.


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