# Receiving cash from family while bankrupt



## zxcvbnm (3 Mar 2017)

My brother is currently bankrupt. I've lodged money into his account (a few hundred  here and there every few months)  to help out.

Is there anything wrong with this from the OA point of view? I'm assuming not but hes getting panicky.

This handout from me would put them above the monthly threshold for basic living expenses during the one year bankruptcy. 
But I'm assuming seeing as it's not earnings then it doesn't count right? Or wrong ?
Obviously he doesn't want the payments to be extended for 2 more years.


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## Gyroscope (4 Mar 2017)

You would be better off just giving him the cash or paying a bill for him. 
The OA will probably just give him a hard time about it and may even take some of it.


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## zxcvbnm (4 Mar 2017)

Ok. But the damage has been done at this stage I guess. 

My understanding is this could come under the windfall category. My understanding is that windfalls can be called in by OR. 
But they are not interested in small amounts. But there is no actual cut off point for small amounts. 

So it could be a subjective call by the OR to decide as to whether a few hundred here and there (probably totalling 1-1.5k) is considered a windfall or a negligible small amount. 

Is my understanding correct ?


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## Catastrophe (6 Mar 2017)

zxcvbnm said:


> Ok. But the damage has been done at this stage I guess.
> 
> My understanding is this could come under the windfall category. My understanding is that windfalls can be called in by OR.
> But they are not interested in small amounts. But there is no actual cut off point for small amounts.
> ...



I wouldn't be paying into your brothers bank if he's bankrupt. As another person said pay him in cash. The OA took €600 from me from a Christmas club and €400 from me in medical expenses.


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## Adecco (7 Mar 2017)

Ok. Interesting. So did the OR do an audit of your accounts at the end of your bankruptcy to discover these payments? Or did you volunteer the info?

ON a broader point - how often does an audit occur of a persons bank account at the end of their bankruptcy?
Is it near 100% of the time as a standard course of being discharged? Of very rarely? Or somewhere in between?


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## Catastrophe (7 Mar 2017)

You are obliged to make them aware of changes. I did and they took the money. I think over the course of the year I submitted details 3 times. At the start, midway when my wages and circumstances changed and approx 6 weeks before I was discharged.

For a €1000 I wasn't going to act the maggot. Just be forthright and do the 12 months. I couldn't see the point in messing around only to be caught at the end and then having the possibility of getting caught with an Order for another 3 years.
Thats just my way however.


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## Adecco (7 Mar 2017)

Yes. That's fair enough. Although in my instance my sibling has arguably technically received a loan rather than earnings/ windfall. I wonder does that change the situation slightly from yours.

Anyway - thanks for reply.


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## Catastrophe (7 Mar 2017)

If you're in the middle of bankruptcy you're not supposed to get a loan of more than €600 without notifying them.

 Its all there on the ISI website.  If it was me I wouldn't be doing bank transfers or giving cheques.


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## Jim Stafford (8 Mar 2017)

As I have previously said on this forum, a bankrupt must be open and transparent in all of his/her dealings.

The 1988 Bankruptcy Act only has 144 sections.  2 of these Sections are relevant to the issue of "_Receiving cash whilst bankrupt_". Like any legislation, you need to have a knowledge of the associated case law in order to properly advise on how to navigate the legislation.

Section 127 states that "_A bankrupt who fails to disclose to the Official Assignee any after acquired property shall be guilty of an offence".  _Accordingly, if a bankrupt does receive cash, then that should be disclosed to the Official Assignee.

Section 129 states that it is an offence to obtain credit of €650 or more without informing that person that he/she is bankrupt.

Stitching  Sections 127 and 129 together, the obvious solution is for family members to "loan" money to the bankrupt whilst he is a bankrupt.   Such loans should be disclosed to the Official Assignee.

I would argue that payment of "expenses" do not need to be disclosed. For example, family members directly paying bills such as medical bills, educational bills etc would not, I would argue, have to be disclosed.  I would argue that these would not have to be disclosed under Section 127 as the payment of "expenses" does not constitute "_after acquired property ._

Given that we live in a Society (and not a pure Economy) it is part and parcel of family life that family members will help each other out. The Official Assignee has no interest in family members contributing towards medical bills, childrens education etc,


Jim Stafford


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