# Responsibility for Major Structural Defects



## Shane_Mc (19 Apr 2011)

Hi All, 
Long time reader, first time poster:

Having purchased a site with FPP I am now at the point where I am hoping to start the build. I will be employing a builder to build a new house (don't have the time or knowledge to go the direct labour route). I have engaged an engineer to complete the structural drawings/foundation design etc. This engineer will also inspect and certify the build as it progresses. 

While I am hoping the situation will not arise, I'm trying to figure out if a "major structural defect" is detected late in the project or after the property has been handed over to me, who would be responsible for correcting this? Is it the builder or the engineer? 

Apologies if this has been covered already in the forum....I've searched but not found the answer. 

Thanks for your input,
S


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## threebedsemi (20 Apr 2011)

In the most simple terms, the engineer is responsible for his design, and the contractor is repsonsible for building in accordance with the design. 

It generally should follow that if the design is faulty, its the engineers fault, and if the building work is not in accordance with the design, it is the contactors fault. 
In a standard contractual situation, there are several confirmations and cross confirmations which generally are signed between you, the engineer, and the contractor during and at the end of the build which make sure that it is hardly ever this staightforward in practice.

I hope that by 'I will be employing a builder' you mean that you are signing a building contract with a builder. You should talk through this contract with your engineer, and have him explain its terms to you. The value of signing a contract is that it clarifies in writing what the responsibility of each party is.

You should also have signed an agreement with the engineer in question (in the standard form of the Institute of which he is a member), which clarifies what his role and responsibilities are.

www.studioplustwo.com


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## Shane_Mc (20 Apr 2011)

Thanks for your reply threebedsemi. 
Yes, we will be signing a building contract with the builder before any works commence, in fact this is where the question arose from. My solicitor wants to include a statement that clearly makes builder responsible for structural defects which are not due to a flawed design. 

A builder we had met earlier in the process was arguing that it is up to the engineer to make sure that he (the builder), builds the house correctly. If there are any structural issues, he argued, it should be up to the engineer to put them right as either he designed the structural elements wrong, or didn't inspect the build adequately during the construction phase. 

Needless to say, we've run a mile from that particular builder based on his attitude alone. He seemed to be making it clear that he wouldn't accept ownership for the quality of his work, unless the engineer flagged a problem at the time of build. Begs the question of what corners he would cut and then cover up when nobody was looking.


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## Superman (20 Apr 2011)

Shane_Mc said:


> A builder we had met earlier in the process was arguing that it is up to the engineer to make sure that he (the builder), builds the house correctly. If there are any structural issues, he argued, it should be up to the engineer to put them right as either he designed the structural elements wrong, or didn't inspect the build adequately during the construction phase. ...He seemed to be making it clear that he wouldn't accept ownership for the quality of his work, unless the engineer flagged a problem at the time of build.


I'm not sure the builder can do that even if he wanted to - the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act would apply and he would have to use due skill and care etc. as a term implied by the statute.  

Of course the fact that he has such an attitude is a separate and not encouraging issue.


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## onq (21 Apr 2011)

Shane_Mc said:


> Hi All,
> Long time reader, first time poster:
> 
> Having purchased a site with FPP I am now at the point where I am hoping  to start the build. I will be employing a builder to build a new house  (don't have the time or knowledge to go the direct labour route). I have  engaged an engineer to complete the structural drawings/foundation  design etc. This engineer will also inspect and certify the build as it  progresses.
> ...



My other comments on engineers in my other posts to date refer.
Engineers are competent to design and certify structures, which is about 1/3 the cost of a house.

Look  at the recent embarrassment in Balgaddy, where two award-winning  schemes have developed widespread outbreaks of mould and damp.
This may not be a structural defect - it probably affects Part C of the Building Regulations, not Part A - so what liability will attach to an engineer then?

My best advice to you is that you should use both an architect and an engineer.

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In the matter of certification, Professionals Design in compliance and Contractors build in compliance - or they should.
Where  trades people are producing a building using traditional building  methods,  details and materials, the onus rests on the Contractor.

Even where specialist design has been  undertaken, professionals do not provide supervision on site - they  undertake limited inspections only.
Thus they cannot see  everything that goes on during the works, or know the pouring and  placement of every piece of concrete, brick, timber or block.

That  is why professionals' limit themselves to certifying to the standard of  "visual inspection only" and specifically exclude opening up works or  works uncovered save where explicitly referred to.
The  professionals provide the design, the contractor provides the building  and the essence of what you are worried about may rest on the definition  of the terms Patent Defects and Latent Defects.

If its a Patent Defect, its obvious, and shouldn't normally be certified.
If its Latert Defect, its hidden and may be certified along with other works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_defect

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Professionals should attend  regularly on site AND TAKE RECORD PHOTOGRAPHS to keep the Contractor  on his toes.
They will do this by ensuring that there is a visible high level of monitoring going on.

Since the foundations are of key importance, the  engineer should investigate the ground conditions using a Trial Pit and  design the structure accordingly.

He should attend  just before the pour and walk the trenches to get the feel of the groud.
He should make sure all hollows are filled in and all soft spots tamped  down and filled and that no organic material is present wither in the  foundation trenches or the bases of the slabs.

Samples of pured  concrete should be sent off for testing and analysis and a careful  inspection and recrod of all goods delivered ot site should be made.
Apart  from keeping and eye on the workmanship, materials and  components must be carefully stored, off wet ground and kept covered  until built in.
The works themselves should be protected rfom  inclement weather - the cold and the wet and the heat all affect  materials adversely.

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Further terms  come into play under the building contract, including Major Items and  Minor Items, and both the Contract and Architect's Opinions may refer to  Major Snag Items and Minor Snag Items.
Where Opinions of  Compliance are issued, these offer assurances of Compliance with  Planning Permission and Compliance with the Building Regulations.

Minor  Items and Snag Items which are so minor as to not give rise to  enforcement action by the Local Authority usually do not prevent  certification, in fact the Archtiect's Cert normally excludes the  latter, viz. - 
"... saving and excepting such minor snag items  as would not, in the opinion of the Architect, give rise to enforcement  action by the local authority..."

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Major Items and Items of Non-Compliance should - but sometimes do not - prevent Certification.
If a Professsional has knowingly Certified a Major and evident defect, they they may be culpable along with the Contractor
Remedies  could include excluding defective elements from the Opinions and  refusing to certify monies sought for them by the Contractor.

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However,  many defects, particularly if they are of a structural nature, may take  time to exhibit themselves. These are known as Latent Defects. 
Unelss  they are known about they may be undetectable, and a Professional may  issue Opinions based on visual inspection in good faith without knowing  about them.

The RIAI forms of contract include a Defects Liability Period.
This  period commences on or after the Date of Practical Completion and  continues normally for about 1 year or 12 calender months.
Within  this period, all the outstanding snag items must be made good and any  latent defects which subsequently become apparent must be remedied.

HTH.


ONQ.

  [broken link removed]

  All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied         upon                                                                                       as  a          defence    or         support  -        in          and     of               itself   -                  should                      legal                  action            be                      taken.
  Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise    in                                                                                             Real      Life      with        rights    to              inspect         and             issue                 reports          on            the                             matters       at                     hand.


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