# Need advice on working in the civil service



## HouseHunter (18 Jul 2008)

Dear all, 

I have over 8 years experience as a specialist in the private sector. I am very seriously considering applying for a similar position in the civil service. This will involve a pay cut but I am prepared to accept that for the role.

My query relates to the general working environment, benefits and how it compares with the private sector. I am under no illusions that I would be moving to an easier role in terms of work and demands.

However, I am seeking a better work/life balance and possibly options for related further education. My fears are that I might struggle to deal with the bureaucracy but maybe this is just a stereotype.

Also, has anyone any advice on the recruitment process, espccially interview i.e. how are they conducted, how may people etc

Any advice or assistance would be greatly appreciated!!

Regards
HH


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## Complainer (18 Jul 2008)

Firstly, expect there to be lots of competition for the position. Public sector positions have become extremely popular in recent months.

Don't assume too much about how 'easy' the job will be. I moved from private to public a few years back, taking a big salary cut in the process. To be honest, my job isn't that different. I do spend less time at work than I used to, between flexitime, time-in-lieu and longer holidays.

The work itself is pretty similar, with similar pressures, similar bureacracy, demanding stakeholders, changing priorities etc etc.

Interviews are generally competency-based, and would usually be focused on the competencies detailed in the job spec. Prepare good, practical stories demonstrating these competencies.


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## HouseHunter (29 Jul 2008)

Thanks for the advice...

as I said, I dont expect it to be easier at all. 

The role is very specialised and there are very few people with the qualifications or experience to go for it. That said I expect the quality of the candidates who do apply to be very high.


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## Staples (29 Jul 2008)

Can you be more specific about which part of the Public Sector you're moving to?

There is range of cultures and work environments throughout.  For example, the Civil Service is much different from the Health sector which is differnt agian from semi-states.  Observations on one of these mightn't necessarily apply to the other.


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## HouseHunter (11 Aug 2008)

it would be the civil service


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## Jackiep (14 Aug 2008)

Giving advice on the working culture of the Civil Service is difficult - each Department and Office is different and very often you will find different working environments within a single Department.  The work is varied, both in content and complexity - an for the most part you will be expected to work hard and if you are interesting in progressing your career that may include some long hours!!

It is has the same office politics that you find in private sector organisation too.  On the other hand it is mostly a good, friendly workplace with lots of opportunities.

Hmm...I'm just beginning to wonder why I left to set up my own business?!

The interviews are all competency based and follow a structured approach.  If you are interest in coaching it is one of the things I do now...

In any case if you have more questions feel free to ask!


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## Staples (14 Aug 2008)

As a specialst in the civil service (e.g. a solicitor or lawyer) your opportunitiers for advancement will be extremenly limited by comparison with general (administrative) level staff. On the other hand, your pay will probably be already quite good by comparison with most of these grades so advancement may not be a key issue for you. 

As regards culture, I think you'll find that specialists are generally quite well regarded and respected by staff at all levels, particulalrly if this repsect is reciprocated. It's generally a positive, friendly, non-confrontational environment but much may depend on the head of whatever office/unit you're working in.

I'd be curious as to your basis for believing the job would be less demanding.  I'd be careful about coming to conclusions on this aspect of the job, without doing some considerable analysis.

As regard the interview process, most interviews are of a competency-based structured format.  The public jobs website  has a godd bit of useful information.

It's difficult to be more specific without knowing the exact department you're considering moving to. I have a good knowledge of several government departments and offices. Feel free if you want to discuss it with me more by private message if you wish.


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## Hautbois (15 Aug 2008)

Staples said:


> As a specialst in the civil service (e.g. a solicitor or lawyer) your opportunitiers for advancement will be extremenly limited by comparison with general (administrative) level staff. On the other hand, your pay will probably be already quite good by comparison with most of these grades so advancement may not be a key issue for you.



Not necessarily true. I suppose it depends on what the OP means by "specialist civil servant".  Along with the cross-departmental technical/professional grades ,there are a host of "specialist" departmental grades within the Service which would be easier to progress through than general service grades.



Staples said:


> As regards culture, I think you'll find that specialists are generally quite well regarded and respected by staff at all levels, particulalrly if this repsect is reciprocated. It's generally a positive, friendly, non-confrontational environment but much may depend on the head of whatever office/unit you're working in.



Unfortunately, while there are many hard-working, bright people in the CS, there are also loads of trouble-makers and "eccentric" people.  Undoubtedly, I believe, it is harder to people-manage in the CS than the private sector. As managers in the private sector can wash their hands of trouble staff, while CS can't (unless you're a Sec Gen).  I've seen junior staff  point-blank refuse to do work and their supervisor left impotently fuming, unable to sanction their staff at all.




Staples said:


> I'd be curious as to your basis for believing the job would be less demanding.  I'd be careful about coming to conclusions on this aspect of the job, without doing some considerable analysis.



Aside from a small percentage working in key policy units or in ministers' offices etc. most civil servants work  FAR less hours than the private sector.


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## Staples (17 Aug 2008)

Hautbois said:


> Aside from a small percentage working in key policy units or in ministers' offices etc. most civil servants work FAR less hours than the private sector.


 
You'd need to present the basis for this statement before presenting it as fact.  It certainly hasn't been my experience.


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## Hautbois (19 Aug 2008)

Staples said:


> You'd need to present the basis for this statement before presenting it as fact.  It certainly hasn't been my experience.



Well, I've been a civil servant for 11 years working in two departments (including a "prestigious" one) from a lowly CO to a slightly less lowly HEO.

In my experience, it is rare for a CS to come in over the weekend (outside of overtime), or to work more than the 6:57 per day.  In the "real world" these are common events.  
I think being able to come in a 9:00 and leave at 4:30 is fairly cushy, with any time "working late" being able to be put towards flexi-leave.  
Perhaps you're an AP+ and not on the flexi.  Even still, the hours you'd be contracted to work are 9:15 to 5:30 (1:15hr for lunch), still pretty good.

In fact (except once), I've never in my time in the civil service seen anyone below PO come in over the weekend (minus overtime).  And for every PO I've seen do that, there's been (at least) three who disappear early when it's a nice sunny day to play golf!

Of course as with all generalisations there are exceptions, and as I wrote in my initial post there are some areas where a CS's attendance would be in excess of the norm in the private sector.  Perhaps you work in one of those areas (I have in the past).  But they are in the minority, and a "specialist" is unlikely to work in one of those areas.

But, if you actually believe that the average lad in the civil service (including "senior" civil servants) work the same hours as a coressponding person in the private sector, then you are the first CS I've ever (virtually) met whose held that view!


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## aircobra19 (19 Aug 2008)

I think its too sweeping a generalisation. Where I am in in the public sector, (Not civil service) some sections like IT would regularly work beyond the required hours, if they were in the middle of something or there was a need to do it. Often unpaid. Theres also a lot of people who are in work outside their flexi hours to avoid traffic peak times. But I would say they they are in the minority. But a sizeable one.

However in the private sector you get people who work short hours too. I've worked in companies where a short working day was the norm. Theres also some people who manage to never stay late, or extended hours regardless of whats going on. Some companies are very strict on their hours too. I would say certain sections like IT would always be pressurised into working beyond their hours often unpaid, and theres a few other sectors like that. 

Obviously there are times when you just need to go the extra mile. But when it becomes the norm its a problem. Seems to me that working extended hours is often a crutch for bad planning and managment, and it becomes an ingrained culture/habit in a company/organisation. Which is fine when you can do it, but becomes a serious problem when you've other commitments outside of work. Kids, sick family members etc. College, sports, exercise etc. 

From my experience in the public sector its been the exact same workwise as the private. Except theres a less pressure, stress and you actually get to leave at a reasonable time, most of the time. The work is the same difficulty and challenge, for me anyway. Job security is better, but decentraliation make its less than it was.


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## Staples (25 Aug 2008)

Hautbois said:


> In my experience, it is rare for a CS to come in over the weekend (outside of overtime), or to work more than the 6:57 per day. In the "real world" these are common events.


 
Not for most private sector workers I know. They work nine to five like most others. Some work shifts, weekends etc, but they're the exception, not the norm.

You seem to be comparing the hours of high achieving private sector types with lower ranking public sector workers. you could just as easily compare lower ranking private sector workers with higher ranking civil servants and turn your whole argument on its head.


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## oreilly21 (26 Aug 2008)

it is a ridiculous argument, to make such sweeping generalisations is insane.

I know from my role as an EO in the CS that my hours, workload etc are the same if not longer than that of my friends in similar roles in the private sector, they also tend to have more of a social aspect and certainly tend to disappear earlier on a Friday.


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