# Accountant won't forward paperwork



## elainem (30 Sep 2011)

Hi! Got new accountant as previous accountant was very expensive e1680 per year. My old accountant is completely paid up to date, and new accountant has everything almost ready, except that he can't calculate S.23. Apparently he needs to see the previous accountant's calculation. However, despite lots of emails from both me and the new accountant, he hasn't forwarded the S23 calculations from the previous years. Does anyone know what we can do in this situation - I'm concerned as 31st October is not too far away.


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Sep 2011)

The first thing to do in cases like this is to try to resolve it directly with the accountant. You and your new accountant have emailed him. You should also phone him and write to him. 

If that does not get a response,  send him a letter and cc it to the relevant institute. You should get a response very quickly. It is likely that he will also get a quality control visit. 

It should not stop your new accountant estimating the S23 . He will just have to use estimates and notify the tax office that it is an estimate rather than a precise calculation. 

Brendan


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## elainem (30 Sep 2011)

*Accountant won't forward papers*

Thanks, Brendan, will send a letter to him next week and cc it to the Institute of Chartered Accounants. I can't believe he's being so obstinate!


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## Joe_90 (30 Sep 2011)

S23 creates a loss in the year of acquisition.  It's not an annual calculation.  Do you have a copy of your prior years rental comp.


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## mandelbrot (1 Oct 2011)

Joe_90 said:


> S23 creates a loss in the year of acquisition.  It's not an annual calculation.  Do you have a copy of your prior years rental comp.



Last year's Form 11, assuming he completed it correctly (which he'd better have for that kind of money!) should state the amount of rental losses carrying forward, which will include S23.


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## elainem (10 Oct 2011)

*Accountant wont forward paperwork*

Hi! Thanks to all of you for your replies. Bendan, I followed your advice and sent a letter to my accountant requesting the S 23 calculation, and saying that I was forwarding a copy of the letter to the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland. The paperwork arrived two days later.

However, my new accountant discovered that my old accountant had brought the S. 23 allowances forward wrongly. It appears he never took into account health or income levys, and now because of this my tax bill for 2010 is e2,400 (health and income levys) on an income of e36,000. Could this possibly be correct?

Also my new accountant is advising me to pay Preliminary Tax now for 2011, which would bring the bill to e4,400. However, I don't have that kind of money now. Have some money invested but can't touch it untilll April. I have never paid Preliminary Tax before as I have S.23 - but it appears I am just paying Preliminary Tax on income and health levies. It's all a bit of a mess! Could someone be kind enough to explain what is going on here?

Thanks.


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## elainem (10 Oct 2011)

*Accountant wont forward paperwork*

Forgot to say that Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland said my old accountant was not one of their members, but a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales. Does this matter?


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## Sue Ellen (10 Oct 2011)

Hi Elaine,

If you go to www.taxcalc.eu and change the year to 2010, input the figures yourself on either public or private sector you should be able to clarify if the amount quoted is right for the levies.


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## T McGibney (11 Oct 2011)

elainem said:


> However, my new accountant discovered that my old accountant had brought the S. 23 allowances forward wrongly. It appears he never took into account health or income levys



Sorry, I'm confused about this. Health and income levies dont impact on the carry forward of S.23 allowances. Can you please explain?


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## Bronte (11 Oct 2011)

elainem said:


> However, my new accountant discovered that my old accountant had brought the S. 23 allowances forward wrongly.
> .


 

Then he should rectify his mistake at no cost to you unless your new accountant is doing it for the original fee agreed. 

If you are receiving rental income you should be saving a portion of that to pay your preliminary tax.  If I understand you correctly you don't have any actual tax to pay due to your Section 23 allowances but you do have health and other levies and that is what is causing the issue now.  Can you not clarify this exactly with your new accountant.


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## kennyb3 (11 Oct 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Sorry, I'm confused about this. Health and income levies dont impact on the carry forward of S.23 allowances. Can you please explain?


 
+1, doesn't make sense.

Unless you are referring to health and income levies for 2009. If you are im guessing he put in the S.23 as capital allowances and not as a loss?


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## elainem (11 Oct 2011)

*Accountant wont forward paperwork*

Thanks again for replies. Sue Ellen - thans for taxcalc.ie details.

Kenny b - yes he put the S 23 in as capital allowances rather than losses - what does this mean? What are the implications? Thanks.


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## kennyb3 (12 Oct 2011)

elainem said:


> Thanks again for replies. Sue Ellen - thans for taxcalc.ie details.
> 
> Kenny b - yes he put the S 23 in as capital allowances rather than losses - what does this mean? What are the implications? Thanks.


 
Prsi, health contribution and income levy are all charged after Case V capital allowances but before losses.

Therefore, and as i ve seen on numerous occassions, if you input S23 relief as capital allowances no prsi, HC or IL will be charged but if the relief is input in the correct manner as a loss they will.

So if you ve significant rent this can make be a reasonable amount.

Thats my understanding of it anyway.


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## Bronte (12 Oct 2011)

kennyb3 said:


> Prsi, health contribution and income levy are all charged after Case V capital allowances but before losses.
> 
> Therefore, and as i ve seen on numerous occassions, if you input S23 relief as capital allowances no prsi, HC or IL will be charged but if the relief is input in the correct manner as a loss they will.
> 
> ...


 
Well Elainem was certainly paying her accountant enough money to get something as basic as that correct.


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## kennyb3 (12 Oct 2011)

Bronte said:


> Well Elainem was certainly paying her accountant enough money to get something as basic as that correct.


 
Agreed €1,680 is extortionate. If it was me i'd demand a credit note and refund for at least the amount of the 10% surcharge that will be applied at this stage (assuming it creates an overall liability).


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## T McGibney (12 Oct 2011)

kennyb3 said:


> Agreed €1,680 is extortionate. If it was me i'd demand a credit note and refund for at least the amount of the 10% surcharge that will be applied at this stage (assuming it creates an overall liability).




Yes the €1,680 is very, very expensive, based on the facts the OP has outlined here previously.

However, I thought that once the original return was filed on time, the question of a 10% surcharge does not apply?


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## DB74 (12 Oct 2011)

elainem said:


> However, my new accountant discovered that my old accountant had brought the S. 23 allowances forward wrongly. It appears he never took into account health or income levys, and now because of this my tax bill for 2010 is e2,400 (health and income levys) on an income of e36,000. Could this possibly be correct?



I'm a bit confused here

Your 2010 tax bill in relation to Health Levy and/or Income Levy can't be affected by virtue of how the S23 allowances have been carried forward.

Do you mean that previous tax returns have been understated. If that is indeed the case then the cumulative amount of understatement shouldn't affect the calculation of preliminary tax for 2011.


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## DB74 (12 Oct 2011)

kennyb3 said:


> Prsi, health contribution and income levy are all charged after Case V capital allowances but before losses.



Income Levy is charged on Gross income before the deduction of both capital allowances and/or losses


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## kennyb3 (12 Oct 2011)

DB74 said:


> Income Levy is charged on Gross income before the deduction of both capital allowances and/or losses


 
Sorry yes of course you are correct, i shouldnt rush my posts so much.


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