# Restaurant Service charge (employee)



## Pablo74 (4 Jun 2008)

Hello, 
Let me air my situation at work to you all and hopefully i will get some badly needed information back.
I have been working in a Restaurant/bar for 6 years now, 2 years ago the building was sold and was leased out to a local man. He asked me to stay on and so i did and 2 years down the road i am still there.
Since before i started in this restaurant all the dinner and bar tips were put into a pot and counted out at the end of the night. They were devided into 4 quarters with the 2 waitress and i getting a 1/4 each and the kitchen getting that last quater which is devided up between 3.
There was never a problem with this and it has carried on till today........... The boss called a meeting between the restaurant staff, he went through a few bit and pieces about cleaning improvements etc etc and the last thing he said was that " FROM TONIGHT ON EACH PERSON WORKING GETS AN EQUAL SHARE OF THE NIGHTLY TIPS". This would mean that the floor staff weekly income would be down 25 %. We told him that he could not do this and it was not fair but he shrugged it off and said "it's final".
Where do we stand ? It is a huge amount of money to be losing out on.
To be honest , 3 of the 4 full time floor staff have said that they are going to hand in their notices at the weekend. 
It is just not fair.
I would love to hear some replies and some help on where we stand would be great ?
Has he the right to make us share all out tips ?
thank you 
Pablo74


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## Towger (4 Jun 2008)

The new system sounds fairer to me. BTW I hope you are paying your PAYE and PRSI on these tips and your employer is also deducting Employers PRSI from them.


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## dazza21ie (4 Jun 2008)

It sounds like a custom and practice has been incorporated into your contract of employment which would mean that it can only be changed by agreement not unilaterally. You should consult with an employment lawyer.


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## truthseeker (4 Jun 2008)

It sounds fairer, this country is not like the US where waiting staff are dependant on their tips for their livelihood, our wages are higher than what their waiting staff get paid.
In the new system, everyone who works gets an equal share of gratuity which seems to be a much more fair distribution.

What caused the change? Did the kitchen staff complain that they were being treated unfairly?


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## Simeon (4 Jun 2008)

Yes I'd second that Truthseeker. Then from Manager to Pearl Diver there is equal incentive ........ not just the front staff. Believe me, washing dishes in a busy kitchen is no joke. Here I talk from the experience of youth.


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## Seagull (4 Jun 2008)

The waiting staff probably have the largest impact on the size of the tip. A brilliantly cooked meal served by rude or grumpy waiting staff will probably result in a smaller tip than a well cooked meal with excellent waiting staff.


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## DeeFox (4 Jun 2008)

I used to work in a restaurant and there was constant grumbling about the tips.  I think the boss should have discussed it with you first but he probably didn't as he knew exactly what you would say ('no').  By all means move to a different job, but tips cannot be depended on in any job so it is something you could come up against again.  Bear in mind also that some of the tips are almost certainly not making it into the 'pot' - tips left on a table may not be fully passed on to the communal pot and the so kitchen staff will never get a full share.


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## truthseeker (4 Jun 2008)

Seagull said:


> The waiting staff probably have the largest impact on the size of the tip. A brilliantly cooked meal served by rude or grumpy waiting staff will probably result in a smaller tip than a well cooked meal with excellent waiting staff.


 
i disagree with this - if the food is cooked extremely well and served in a timely manner then I couldnt care less about the grumpiness of the waiting staff. 
I wouldnt tip a lovely waiting person if the food was awful.


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## Pablo74 (4 Jun 2008)

Its the restaurant staff who have worked there for years and who have built up custom and maintained it in this restaurant. The boss rarely works the floor as he know we are well capable.
We know where to put locals, what tables people like to sit on and we try not to turn anyone away when the restaurant is busy. We pride ourselves on good service and gaining tips was a great incentive to go that extra yard in making our customers happy.
 It has left a bitter taste in our mouths after this as we now feel like we are not appreciated and feel like dropping down a few levels in our customer service.
I don't understand how he can tell us what to do with our tips ?
Pablo74


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## moondance (4 Jun 2008)

LOL - this brings me back to my waitressing days - the tips were always a bone of contention. As someone who worked on the floor I believed only the waiting staff should get tips. We did get away with only the waiting staff getting the tips and we did very well out of it too. Most of the time we'd make more in tips than in wages - I could live quite comfortably when a student from waitressing just Fri and Sat nights. 

I still think if you want a share of the tips then you should be working on the floor dealing directly with the customers. After all, it's the floor staff that have to deal with unhappy customers whether it's about food, delays or service so this is the reward. I'd stand my ground Pablo, or just leave and work somewhere with a system you'd prefer.


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## truthseeker (4 Jun 2008)

But Pablo - dont you think its a team effort? The kitchen staff must also pull their weight? Why do you think they are 'your' tips - are the tips not left in appreciation of the whole experience? Which includes the work of the kitchen staff?

Why do you think the kitchen staff should not get their fair share also?
Do they not work just as hard - just in a different environment?


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## sandrat (4 Jun 2008)

do the kitchen staff get paid more than waiting staff?


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## Pablo74 (4 Jun 2008)

I do and i am as fair as them, but they have been employed there for quite a while now and when being employed they were told that they would get a share of the tips over their wages. They agreed to that when starting off work.
As for the owner he is rocking the boat which will effect his business and why ?....... because the kitchen staff want more money. It makes no difference to him but do you not think he is putting his business in jeopardy ?

Thanks for lending me your ear Truth-seeker,
Pablo


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## Pablo74 (4 Jun 2008)

sandrat said:


> do the kitchen staff get paid more than waiting staff?


 

I presume the 2 chef's do but the 2 eastern europeans that do the wash up don't.
The boss works in the kitchen aswell.


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## sandrat (4 Jun 2008)

Pablo74 said:


> I presume the 2 chef's do but the 2 eastern europeans that do the wash up don't.
> The boss works in the kitchen aswell.


 
does it matter what nationality they are? I always consider that people on a minimum hourly rate like waiting staff and wash up need the tips but those on salaries like chefs and managers don't.


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## snuffle (4 Jun 2008)

sandrat said:


> I always consider that people on a minimum hourly rate like waiting staff and wash up need the tips but those on salaries like chefs and managers don't.


This is something that bugs me - waiting staff may be on minimum hourly rates, but somehow people feel obliged to tip them to "top up" their pay.

However, how often would you tip the youngster scanning your groceries through a till, or send a few bob in the post to the voice on the other end of the phone line in a call centre, or the general office worker who processes a query or hands you the document you were looking for, or any number of other minimum wage jobs?

Just because someone is handing you a plate or glass as part of their paid employment, rather than say, a file, or your shopping bags, I don't see the reasoning behind handing them extra money. 

If the service is good, no matter what the actual service is, a little gratuity is nice, but the only ones who seem eligible for tips are those working in the frontline of restaurants. 

If tips are a part of the working environment, I would think the new proposal to split tips evenly is pretty fair - it's an incentive for the kitchen staff to ensure they are performing well too.


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## sandrat (4 Jun 2008)

I know when i was working in a restaurant I was on below minimum wage (they gave us our lunch) and when working in retail and offices I was always a bit above minimum wage. In restaurant work (hospitality trade) the rights to breaks etc are a bit up in the air plus you are expected to work crazy hours like finish at 12 and be in a 6 for breakfast etc. Used to kill me that people don't leave tips for breakfast or lunch but just dinner so depending on your shift you might not get tips at all. In my current job i have had people try to give me tips for helping them with research etc but I have always refused (as I should!) I am well paid now for what I do.


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## Purple (4 Jun 2008)

It doesn't matter if the change is fairer or not; the employer cannot change term and conditions of employment without agreement. It sounds like the guys in the kitchen want a pay increase and this is how they are getting it. If three of the front of house staff are going to leave because of this action then the boss is an idiot who doesn’t know how to manage his people.


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## wicklowlass (4 Jun 2008)

are we really talking about alot of money???


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## Guest120 (4 Jun 2008)

wicklowlass said:


> are we really talking about alot of money???



Already covered in the first post.



Pablo74 said:


> It is a huge amount of money to be losing out on.


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## wicklowlass (4 Jun 2008)

yeah but huge to him might not be alot to others


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## Guest120 (4 Jun 2008)

s





wicklowlass said:


> yeah but huge to him might not be alot to others


Regardless of what it is to others it's a significant amount to the OP. I don't see what the significance of the amount to other is or your point.

Whether its one euro or one million euro it's still the same matter at hand.


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## wicklowlass (4 Jun 2008)

why do you  have to take an attiude with me?


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## Pablo74 (5 Jun 2008)

Hi all, 
 Just to keep you updated, the 4 of us floor staff had a meeting this morning and we are going to arrange another meeting with the Boss to see if we can come to some form of settlement. 
If he does not compromise with us then we feel we have no choice other but to hand in out notices.
He has changed the terms of our employment with out our agreement and that can't be tolerated. Where would the buck stop after that ?
pablo74


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## Purple (5 Jun 2008)

wicklowlass said:


> why do you  have to take an attiude with me?



Who's taking an attitude?


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## Pablo74 (5 Jun 2008)

Ahh !!... Hello ????


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## wicklowlass (5 Jun 2008)

bluetonic above


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## DavyJones (5 Jun 2008)

Pablo74 said:


> Hi all,
> Just to keep you updated, the 4 of us floor staff had a meeting this morning and we are going to arrange another meeting with the Boss to see if we can come to some form of settlement.
> If he does not compromise with us then we feel we have no choice other but to hand in out notices.
> He has changed the terms of our employment with out our agreement and that can't be tolerated. Where would the buck stop after that ?
> pablo74


 
Have you a written copy of your T & C? if not IMHO I don't think you have much of a case. Tips aren't wages etc. walking out of a job in todays climate may be foolhardy but everyone to their own. best of luck with it.


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## Bronte (6 Jun 2008)

As a former waitress who lived on tips I'm with you on this one Pablo, it's unfair of him to change the way of working.  Best of luck on your meeting, united you stand etc.  But you'll have to be prepared to walk - even if he backs down, he may slowly get rid of you one by one.


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## Purple (6 Jun 2008)

wicklowlass said:


> bluetonic above



I thought their point was perfectly valid and ell made.


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## Soldier (6 Jun 2008)

i think it also fair. why should you get a 1/4 each. all you do is carry out the plates, the chef's cook the food and the wash up clean the dishes. I used to work in a hotel washing dishes and the chefs or wash up staff never got any tips and it was always really unfair esp at race week when you could get 100euro tip from one person. no one in the kitchen ever seen any of it and it was always the wash up staff who were the last to leave. I think the boss has the right idea. fair play to him


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## dempster (6 Jun 2008)

I have been a waitress for donkeys years and have always made good tips although i never expect them. Wether it is right or not people do tip for good service most of the time and i would not refuse to accept. I can honestly say the work most of the time is back breaking. The waitresses were i work have the final say in who gets what and we are very generous but we dont give others the same as ourselves. It is the waitress that has to face the public and take the insults, moans and petty complaints. When the meal isnt good and the customer not happy you wont find the chefs out in the restaurant taking the blame. When the owners over book we take the flax for tables not being ready. The kitchen staff finish alot earlier than us as well. Two girls from the wash up decided to try waitressing for the tips alone and lasted one weekend.


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## Pablo74 (7 Jun 2008)

Soldier said:


> i think it also fair. why should you get a 1/4 each. *all you do is carry out the plates*, the chef's cook the food and the wash up clean the dishes. I used to work in a hotel washing dishes and the chefs or wash up staff never got any tips and it was always really unfair esp at race week when you could get 100euro tip from one person. no one in the kitchen ever seen any of it and it was always the wash up staff who were the last to leave. I think the boss has the right idea. fair play to him


 
 Sorry Soldier but i have to laugh at your post ..... if you please, will you read the full thread and get to know the full story of my situation before casting silly remarks as highlighted above.... thanks.. good man 

Just to let the proper posters of this thread know the latest on the ordeal .... we (the floor staff) and the Boss had a meeting last night and all was resolved. We told him how unhappy we were at his new policy and that when we agreed to work there, the tips were to be divided 4 ways. Anyhow we came to an agreement to give the kitchen staff their 1/4 and a %%%%% on top which they were happy to agree with.
Saga over and thank you all for posting your feelings on the matter ( including Soldier )

Pablo74


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## Towger (9 Jun 2008)

Just to update my comment on paying PAYE and EE & ER PRSI on the tips. From the 1st of September VAT at 13.5% should also be deducted.


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## Purple (9 Jun 2008)

Soldier said:


> i think it also fair. why should you get a 1/4 each. all you do is carry out the plates, the chef's cook the food and the wash up clean the dishes. I used to work in a hotel washing dishes and the chefs or wash up staff never got any tips and it was always really unfair esp at race week when you could get 100euro tip from one person. no one in the kitchen ever seen any of it and it was always the wash up staff who were the last to leave. I think the boss has the right idea. fair play to him


Don't start slagging other people's work or they might take it badly


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## triplex (9 Jun 2008)

The Minister stated on Marian Finucane's RTE 1 radio show yesterday that tax on tipping *does not apply in Ireland.* 

Might want to check out the script of the show on RTE.ie


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## DavyJones (9 Jun 2008)

purple said:


> don't Start Slagging Other People's Work Or They Might Take It Badly


 
:d


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## Towger (9 Jun 2008)

triplex said:


> The Minister stated on Marian Finucane's RTE 1 radio show yesterday that tax on tipping *does not apply in Ireland.*


 
That must be news to Revenue...

PAYE and PRSI:

*29. My staff get tips from customers. Some are cash from customers. Some via credit cards? How are they treated under the new arrangements? *
Where the tips are routed through the employer, PAYE/PRSI must be applied to the amount paid (including employer PRSI). If tips are received directly from patrons, there is no obligation on the employer to operate PAYE/PRSI on the amounts received. (The employees are obliged to declare the tips received in their annual return of income). In the case of credit card tips the employer must operate PAYE/PRSI on the amounts of the tips received. 

VAT:

[broken link removed]


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