# Restaurant using teenagers & not paying them unpaid trial not explained to youngsters



## bullwinkle (29 Jul 2011)

Hi, 

I have a query regarding something that happened to my nephew.  He is 16 and has been looking for a restaurant job for a while, just for the summer and then in the evenings/weekends when he returns to school.

Anyway he dropped in a lot of C.V.s and got a call back to one restaurant in Dublin City Centre.  They interviewed him and then about a week later rang him to say he got the job and would be covering holidays for the summer.  So, she said turn up Wednesday evening and have a chef uniform i.e trousers, white jacket and hat - so he runs around gets the uniform etc and arrives in to work. 

He did a six hour shift in the kitchen and the boss comes out to him and says okay you're finished now if we need you again we'll ring you, you won't be getting paid for this?.  So, he left and was very confused by all of this so immediately his mother rang the restaurant to see what was going on.  

Eventually the manager rings her back and says look we have different people in every night covering a shift and we don't have to pay them - we're perfectly entitled to do that.  So, in other words they take on these young kids, they all go get a uniform sorted because they've been told they got the job and then they are given one night without pay.  Surely to god this isn't legal, can anyone advise on who you could make a complaint to.  

The manager in the restaurant just hung up the phone, didn't care whatsoever about it.


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## callybags (29 Jul 2011)

Contact NERA  [broken link removed]

Alternatively, have your nephew make up a big sign saying that he worked 6 hours and got no pay and stand outside the restaraunt on their busiest night.

He should get his money.


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## pinkyBear (29 Jul 2011)

callybags said:


> Alternatively, have your nephew make up a big sign saying that he worked 6 hours and got no pay and stand outside the restaraunt on their busiest night.
> 
> He should get his money.


+1 - disgraceful behavior - even if every restaurant does it!  They shouldn't and they should pay the staff!!!


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2011)

Silly restaurant - Why don't they just call it an 'internship' and the nice Government will pay for their staff?


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## bullwinkle (29 Jul 2011)

He definitely wouldn't do that he's very shy and this has left him very embarrassed!


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## T McGibney (29 Jul 2011)

I'm sure any leading journalist would just love this story


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## z107 (29 Jul 2011)

He could return to the restaurant with some friends and family for a slap up meal with all the trimmings. When it comes to paying, he can say "I won't be paying for that", and leave.


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## bullwinkle (29 Jul 2011)

I rang NERA there and the girl stated that this is fairly routine practice - she said they often have restaurants getting teenagers to cover a whole weekend - and then being told it was a trial that they failed.  

She gave me a form to fill out to get the Commissioner to review the case, he will look at it and see if anything can be done.  It's truly not about the money, its the fact that she made him get a uniform knowing that he would only be working for four hours, he feels very humiliated by all of it.  

Of course it's a learning curve for him but that doesn't mean the restaurant should get away scot free with it.  I'd absolutely love to Name and Shame them


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## Sunny (29 Jul 2011)

bullwinkle said:


> I'd absolutely love to Name and Shame them


 
Please do. I certainly won't eat there if that is what they are doing and I have no problem telling them why.


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## bullwinkle (29 Jul 2011)

Serious question, where could you name and shame them or how could I get word out there? I was thinking of leaving reviews etc on the various websites stating what happened.  Do you think this would make a point?


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## T McGibney (29 Jul 2011)

Why not contact one of the national media?


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## p15574 (29 Jul 2011)

Sunny said:


> Please do. I certainly won't eat there if that is what they are doing and I have no problem telling them why.



+1. Name them, I won't eat there either. Disgraceful behaviour. Also agree with you about noting it on TripAdvisor.


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## Complainer (29 Jul 2011)

I'd suggest you check with a moderator before you name-and-shame here.


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## Mpsox (29 Jul 2011)

you could always ring Joe Duffy, sounds like this would be right up his street.


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## Purple (29 Jul 2011)

Complainer said:


> Silly restaurant - Why don't they just call it an 'internship' and the nice Government will pay for their staff?



Because it has to be an approved position and training has to be provided. I thought you'd know that.


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## Purple (29 Jul 2011)

callybags said:


> Contact NERA  [broken link removed]
> 
> Alternatively, have your nephew make up a big sign saying that he worked 6 hours and got no pay and stand outside the restaraunt on their busiest night.
> 
> He should get his money.





umop3p!sdn said:


> He could return to the restaurant with some friends and family for a slap up meal with all the trimmings. When it comes to paying, he can say "I won't be paying for that", and leave.





T McGibney said:


> Why not contact one of the national media?





Mpsox said:


> you could always ring Joe Duffy, sounds like this would be right up his street.


I'd do all of the above.


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## Magpie (29 Jul 2011)

It is quite common in the industry for chefs to trial for a position and do a shift or two without pay, however this is professional chefs and they certainly know about it first. Sounds like this restaurant is trying to extend this to take advantage of teenagers.


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## PaddyBloggit (29 Jul 2011)

Shocking behaviour ... call it what you like. It was theft. 

This young man was led to believe he'd be paid for work he did only to be given a cock and bull story after the fact.

Name and shame on Joe Duffy ... that will hit the restaurant where it should ... in the pocket!

The place should be damn glad to be operating in these times and should have more cop on than to try this on. 

It's totally shameful.

Don't let this lie. Pure exploitation of this young lad who took steps to do something positive with his time.

Is there any review site out there like tripadvisor but for restaurants? That would be another way to express dissatisfaction.


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## Deiseblue (29 Jul 2011)

I would also suggest that you make SIPTU aware of this appalling abuse , the phone no. of the section that deals with catering is 01 - 8588240 or email pward@siptu.ie


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## PaddyW (29 Jul 2011)

It might be on [broken link removed] check it out

Don't let them away with it. It's disgraceful behaviour.


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## bullwinkle (29 Jul 2011)

small update on this - the mother rang back again this morning and asked to speak to the same person - this person came on the phone and denied that she had been the one the mother spoke to last night.  (no doubt it was same person as she has distinctive accent).  Now, first off mother asked her if she was happy with his performance she immediately said yes he was great etc etc.  So the mother went on to explain how she wouldn't be letting this lie and has spoken to Nera et she also said that if she has to campaign against this restaurant she will.  So, attitude changed immediately she says look the chef should have paid him i'm sorry it was an oversight etc etc.  Denied saying last night that they do this as a matter of routine but then she denied it was her last night - bizarre stuff really.  Anyway she said i'll ring the chef and ring you back - mother said no, you won't ring me back, you'll ring my son back and show him some respect etc etc.  That was at 11 this morning has heard nothing since.  

I have obtained the names of the owners and their addresses from cro, have got the form from Nera and am also setting about writing some honest reviews on websites.  Mother will be ringing back later if she has heard nothing.  The poor guy - he genuinely spent weeks walking around town and put cvs into almost every single business going - he feels very stupid for falling for this! - it's really knocked his confidence. 

I agree with going for a meal in restaurant and not paying - might just do that, won't go joe duffy route - I would if it was me but the poor guy is mortified about the whole thing and I wouldn't like to make it worse.


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## PaddyBloggit (29 Jul 2011)

bullwinkle said:


> I agree with going for a meal in restaurant and not paying - might just do that ...



I'd be slow to do that .... the old adage 'two wrongs don't make a right' comes to mind'.


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## Leper (30 Jul 2011)

The exact same thing happened to me many years ago. I applied for a job in a pub/restaurant and was successful. The owner wanted to see how I would work under pressure and invited me to work three nights Fri/Sun. He said nothing about it being a trial period. 

I worked my brains out and was convinced that there was no reason not to hire me. You guessed it, late Sunday night the owner informed me that he was not happy with my performance and consequently he would not need my services again. He refused to pay.

Six months later (having made a reservation) I had a meal with all my family plus a few others. The food was good, the drink even better. When it came to time for the bill, I asked to see the owner. The restaurant/bar was nearly full. I invited him to make a public scene as I was not going to pay and I also added " I hope you do make a scene".

We all walked out thanking him for the beautiful meal and we smiled and smiled and smiled.


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## Guest105 (30 Jul 2011)

This trial thing is quite common in the pub trade as I know young girls that participated in it for a few nights and afterwards some got jobs and others didnt.

My opinion of it, if someone does a job it dosen't matter whether it is for a few hours or few days they should be paid for their time full stop.

It is dispicable what they did to that young chap and it should be highlghted in the media at least it will raise awareness about the whole exploitness of it. 
Times are bad enough without these scum taken advantage of our vulnerable younger people.


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## JP1234 (30 Jul 2011)

If I was the mother of the boy I would not be wasting my time ringing, instead I would be turning up at the restaurant during a busy period and confronting who ever is in charge in full view of customers

If you have a local newspaper ring them up and tell the story,  make sure the young chap tells as many of his friends, who will tell their parents and on and on.

Absolutely shameful practice.  

I used to work in a hotel where they took people on unpaid trials but it was made clear to them at the start and they were never expected to provide their own uniforms. If they were taken on at the end, which they often were, the employment date was backdated to the start of the trial and they did then get paid for it.


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## bullwinkle (2 Aug 2011)

Update - following phone call to her by mother , owner rang him and said she has money waiting for him if he wants to come in and collect it.  So the mother said to him go in, collect your money and be very polite, thank everybody for their help etc etc - sickly sweet.  So he did, she gave him €30 and he said 'thanks for the experience' she then walked away and as she did she said ".... ... "! unbelievable, he was lucky though he got some money, others won't be so lucky!


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## Sue Ellen (2 Aug 2011)

Don't want to sound nosey but as a matter of interest how much does the uniform cost?


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## bullwinkle (2 Aug 2011)

Well it's not actually a uniform as such that he had to get - it was chefs jacket and trousers - position was a porter type job so he needed the white jacket and he hadn't got time to get the actual trousers so he just got himself a plain black pair - not sure what he paid.    She hadn't even got the decency to just give him the money and say thanks - she had to give it and say eff off!   This woman is one of the directors as well!


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## Scotsgirl (2 Aug 2011)

I am disgusted about this poor chap!

I think he should get the cost of the jacket and trousers back as well.  Unbelievable they made him buy these if they had no intention of keeping him on.

Would him mum not persue the cost of these as well?

Also €30 for 6 hours work is pretty grim.


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## z107 (2 Aug 2011)

Scotsgirl said:


> Also €30 for 6 hours work is pretty grim.



€5/hour is below the minimum wage:
An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

Now that this is paid employment.


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## DB74 (2 Aug 2011)

You should get onto NERA now.

If he has been paid then he was employed and therefore should have gotten a payslip and a P45, not to mention a contract with his hours, working conditions, job description, holiday entitlements etc etc.


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## paddyc (2 Aug 2011)

Please name this restaurant ... just want to make sure I don't go there


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## ajapale (2 Aug 2011)

paddyc said:


> Please name this restaurant ... just want to make sure I don't go there


 
Please dont.


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## Firefly (4 Aug 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> He could return to the restaurant with some friends and family for a slap up meal with all the trimmings. When it comes to paying, he can say "I won't be paying for that", and leave.



Mrs Firefly's work colleague did this once and it was class! The chef of a well-known, Dublin restaurant had unpaid bills (approx 300 euro I believe) and every time he was called made up excuses. Eventually, she decided to head to the restaurant for a lap-up lunch with her friend. Full lunch with champagne. When the bill came she told the waitor to send it to Mr X in the kitchen who she said would be more than happy to cover the cost. She said it was the nicest meal she ever had!


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## bullworth (4 Aug 2011)

if a business is profiting from free labour;  are they not obligated to pay tax on this ?


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## DB74 (4 Aug 2011)

bullworth said:


> if a business is profiting from free labour;  are they not obligated to pay tax on this ?



Not directly but free labour will increase profits which means higher taxes


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## Bronte (5 Aug 2011)

Would dearly love to know the name of this restaurant.  Shameful practice, I've never heard of free work in a bar or restaurant and I've worked in the hospitality industry.


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## gianni (5 Aug 2011)

bullwinkle said:


> I agree with going for a meal in restaurant and not paying - might just do that, *won't go joe duffy route* - I would if it was me but the poor guy is mortified about the whole thing and I wouldn't like to make it worse.


 
Someone else has...just heard a promo for todays show where this will be the topic discussed...


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## Gekko (5 Aug 2011)

Bronte said:


> Would dearly love to know the name of this restaurant. Shameful practice, I've never heard of free work in a bar or restaurant and I've worked in the hospitality industry.


 
I'd be grateful if the OP would PM me the name of the restaurant so I can boycott it.

Thanks.


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## T McGibney (5 Aug 2011)

Firefly said:


> Mrs Firefly's work colleague did this once and it was class! The chef of a well-known, Dublin restaurant had unpaid bills (approx 300 euro I believe) and every time he was called made up excuses. Eventually, she decided to head to the restaurant for a lap-up lunch with her friend. Full lunch with champagne. When the bill came she told the waitor to send it to Mr X in the kitchen who she said would be more than happy to cover the cost. She said it was the nicest meal she ever had!



I'm not sure it would be fair to punish an employer for the (presumably personal) indiscretions or debts of an employee.


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## truthseeker (5 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> I'd be grateful if the OP would PM me the name of the restaurant so I can boycott it.
> 
> Thanks.


 
Me too. Im appalled by this story.


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## JoeB (6 Aug 2011)

I wouldn't be happy so far, especially at the 30, which is laughable.

I'd be complaining saying that the kid had been employed, (which he was, as that's what he was told), and then after working his employer refused to pay. That is what happened after all, and that's quite serious. I'd be complaining to NERa is it, and they will take action, they can only respond to complaints, and perhaps the restaurant is known to NERA.

The FO comment by the manager or whatever is supporting evidence for you of their deplorable attitude, and their complete lack of remorse. So you can remain calm now and let them hang themselves. Try to use a modern smart phone to call them if calling, and record the call,.. no need to tell them if you do. (It is quite tricky to record calls so maybe ignore that.)

I would give the manager one last chance to pay up. I personally would now be asking for 100 to 300 Euros,.. but you could just ask for the minimum wage, and insist upon a real apology. Consider making your complaint all the same about the non-payment of wages, and the lack of a proper P45, if they don't provide it.


The only problem with what they've done is not tell the guy it was an unpaid trial.. if they had of done so then I can't see a problem,... unless they serially get new people on trial and never employ them.


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## MugsGame (9 Aug 2011)

umop3p!sdn said:


> €5/hour is below the minimum wage:
> An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html
> 
> Now that this is paid employment.



Of course the restaurant could claim this payment is after tax and the guy will be receiving a payslip in the post showing the emergency tax deducted.


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## cork (10 Aug 2011)

Practice of unpaid work experience should be highlighted.

I know of a guy that called into a restaurant & he was offered unpaid work.

They know people are mad to get their first step on the ladder.


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## Firefly (10 Aug 2011)

T McGibney said:


> I'm not sure it would be fair to punish an employer for the (presumably personal) indiscretions or debts of an employee.



I'm sure the employer would dock the employee's pay in this case.


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## JoeB (10 Aug 2011)

People pay to go to college to learn new skills.

Is it any different working for free?, in order to gain skills?

As long as you are told it's a free trial I don't see the problem.
*
Is it legal to employ someone on zero wages, if they agree to it?*


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## T McGibney (10 Aug 2011)

Firefly said:


> I'm sure the employer would dock the employee's pay in this case.


Would they have any legal basis for doing so? I'm not so sure.


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## Firefly (10 Aug 2011)

T McGibney said:


> Would they have any legal basis for doing so? I'm not so sure.



True..it's hard to say. There would be some explaining to do anyway!


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## T McGibney (10 Aug 2011)

Why? If an employee has debts or other issues in their personal life, surely their employer has no right to intrude into those issues once it doesn't impact on the performance of their employment?

And what's to stop anyone refusing to pay a restaurant, bar or hotel bill by alleging that the chef/barman or bellboy personally owes them money?


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## csirl (10 Aug 2011)

truthseeker said:


> Me too. Im appalled by this story.


 
+1 can you PM me the name?


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## Bronte (11 Aug 2011)

JoeBallantin said:


> *Is it legal to employ someone on zero wages, if they agree to it?*


 
There are laws to prevent employers doing this as far as I know.  That's the reason for the minimum wage and I think an even lower one if you are under 18.  There was a recent case in the papers in Co. Clare.  A B&B which offered roam and board and under minimum wage which as far as I could tell was accepted by the couple in question.  But later they took the employer to court and got back dated wages as it was below the minimum.  

Also the only place I believe you can pay less then minimum is hotels where you get bed and board as part of your package.  But this may no longer be true.


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## callybags (11 Aug 2011)

Surely anyone is entitled to work on a voluntary basis without the employer being liable to be sued.

There just needs to be clear agreement that the work is voluntary.


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## bullworth (11 Aug 2011)

callybags said:


> There just needs to be clear agreement that the work is voluntary.



If the young lad didn't sign any agreement to this effect then  the restaurant shouldn't have a leg to stand on


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## dodo (12 Aug 2011)

This is a must for the great Joe Duffy,


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## bullwinkle (12 Aug 2011)

Hi guys just catching up with this now.  No, he didn't sign agreement, wasn't informed that it was a trial and she never asked him for pps number - the only thing she had was his cv which he had dropped in weeks beforehand.  When the mother spoke to her she told her that she is within her rights to get different people to cover various nights during holiday season and not pay them.  Again she at no time informed him that it was a trial - she told him to get a uniform.


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