# About to pay voluntary UK national insurance contributions



## JSF221

Moved to Ireland from the UK 15 years ago and I've worked in Ireland consistently since then except a period of unemployment in 2009. I have 7 full years NI contributions up to 2005 from employment before moving here, with 15 years missing. I applied to HMRC using form NI38/CF83 and I got a reply to say I can pay class 2 for each each of the missing 15 years, except the period of unemployment in 2009 of which class 3 will apply. Total quote to buy back all 15 years for a little of £2500.00. That'll bring me up to 22 years towards the 35 needed for a full UK state pension. From April 2022, they'll send me an invoice each year to pay class 2 as long as I'm working in Ireland. If I stop working, I need to let them know as it'll be class 3 in that case.

I've got to 2023 to pay voluntary contributions between 2006 and 2016, I then lose them forever. I'm settled in Ireland, so have no plans on moving back to the UK. Now, I know the SP might not be there by the time I reach SPA, but it could be, none of us know for sure.

Based on the facts we have right now, it seems to be a worthwhile investment to make, am I missing something though? From what I've read in previous posts, I should be able to claim both UK and Irish state pensions (based on today's rules of course). I'll also have the expected 40 years contributions in Ireland by the time I hit my early to mid 60s. 

Is this too good to be true?

thanks


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## NoRegretsCoyote

It seems actually not too good to be true. My own experience is similar.

Don't pass up this opportunity for back payments and pay every year from now on.


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## Thirsty

Do it, well worth the money.

As soon as you pay in your money, write a letter asking for a receipt. Responses are amazingly slow, but you will eventually get a reply.


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Thirsty said:


> As soon as you pay in your money, write a letter asking for a receipt.


I was going to do this but got one automatically after about four weeks.


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## AndroidMan

Will you get the two full pensions paid to you or will the Irish one be reduced as you have the other income?


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## Thirsty

You are entitled to both; income tax is due in the usual way.


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## ArthurMcB

Theres also a handy uk gove portal, for when you are up and running with contributions, where you can check your contributions to date and your entitlement. Cant recall the web address


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## jpd

I tried that a few years ago but you had to have a UK postal address to sign up - only available to UK residents effectively

Maybe it has changed since


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## JSF221

I was able to get logged in using my national insurance number. If you google UK pension forecast it'll give you the option to create an account. When i was set up I noticed all my personal details were already there - including Irish address etc. I suspect that was from having to renew my UK drivers licence a few years back when it expired. It's very handy. Shows full record of NI contributions paid and missing. For the missing years it shows the amount due in class 3 for buying back. It also has a handy form tracker so when i sent my application to pay voluntary contributions i noticed 2 days later that they had received it - it then moved to a 'processing' status for about 6 weeks.


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## Thirsty

jpd said:


> I tried that a few years ago but you had to have a UK postal address to sign up - only available to UK residents effectively
> 
> Maybe it has changed since


I think I found the same - have to rely on snail mail. I see from @NoRegretsCoyote that they are starting to send receipts; I've always had to write for them up to now.


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## NoRegretsCoyote

I tried to set that up but it needed a UK address, at least for initial set-up.


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## time to plan

jpd said:


> I tried that a few years ago but you had to have a UK postal address to sign up - only available to UK residents effectively
> 
> Maybe it has changed since


I managed to use my last UK address, but it was reasonably recent.


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## nest egg

Is there a minimum length of time you have to pay NI in the UK, to be eligible to continue to pay class 2/3, after you leave?


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## MeathCommute

Can you top up your UK state pension OR transfer years from UK to ROI to improve your Irish state pension OR do a mix of both?


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## ArthurMcB

mojoask said:


> Is there a minimum length of time you have to pay NI in the UK, to be eligible to continue to pay class 2/3, after you leave?


I think its 3 years


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## NoRegretsCoyote

ArthurMcB said:


> I think its 3 years


Check this with them. They let me pay Class 3 after only working in the UK ten months.


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## time to plan

Voluntary National Insurance
					

National Insurance contributions you can choose to pay when you have a gap in your National Insurance record.




					www.gov.uk
				





Living and working abroadClass 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributionsLiving abroad but not workingClass 3 - but only if at some point you’ve lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions


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## stanman

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Check this with them. They let me pay Class 3 after only working in the UK ten months.



All published docs I've seen indicate three years minimum in the UK.

@NoRegretsCoyote wonder was there some extenuating circumstance that allowed you to get approved for less?

I worked in the UK for a little under two years in the 90's but thought I would be ineligible for voluntary NI contributions.

Thanks
Stan


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## Marc

My own record was projected to be £86pw which I can increase to £168pw in 14 years time.

The current class 2 rate that I pay is about £159pa so I need to pay just over £2,200 in todays money over the coming years to enhance my own pension by an additional £4264pa which can also be inherited by my wife and is currently payable in addition to my Irish state pension.

You really would struggle to find a better way of putting aside some money.









						UK State Pensions
					

Our aim is to help you to navigate these various rules and regulations and make a more informed choice about whether or not to top up your UK State pension




					joom.ag


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## Lisgoold

I'd love to hear from anyone who is successfully drawing two state pensions , UK and Ireland, especially if one of them is full. 
I'll have enough for a full UK one, and easily qualify for a partial Irish one .


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Lisgoold said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who is successfully drawing two state pensions


Look back over the threads and you will find people.




stanman said:


> @NoRegretsCoyote wonder was there some extenuating circumstance that allowed you to get approved for less?


My reading of the criteria was that I probably wasn't eligible, but I sent off form NI38 anyway and they confirmed I was eligible for the more expensive Class 3 VCs. I am not quite sure why they accepted but they did and it was the best-value stamp I've ever bought.


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## jasdpace@gmail.

@Marc 

Thank you for the guide.

Just one question, for the last few years, I have not worked. If, however, I wish to buy UK years - in respect of those years when I was working in Ireland - am I liable to Class 2 or Class 3 for these years? Thanks.


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## jasdpace@gmail.

I'm new here but I think that the posting guidelines permit me to a one-time bump of a post at this stage.

I'm just wondering if anyone actually knows the answer to my query in the post immediately above.

Thanks in advance!


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## basilbrush

According to https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions for living and working abroad: "Class 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions", but I don't know whether this applies if you are paying the voluntary contributions in arrears. You also say that you have not worked for the last few years, so another restriction to consider is that you can only pay up to six years back.


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## jasdpace@gmail.

basilbrush said:


> You also say that you have not worked for the last few years, so another restriction to consider is that you can only pay up to six years back.



Thanks Basilbrush

Why do you say that I can only go back six years? I had understood that the facility to go back more than 6 years (from 2006 onwards) was exclusively determined by one's age? This is what I understand from the link you provided - what am I missing?


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## basilbrush

Ah yes, I don't understand yet how they work out how many years of voluntary contributions you can pay. It seems a bit confusing that on the same page they say "You can usually pay voluntary contributions for the past 6 years" and "You’re a man born after 5 April 1951 or a woman born after 5 April 1953: You have until 5 April 2023 to pay voluntary contributions to make up for gaps between April 2006 and April 2016 if you’re eligible." (which would presumably mean that quite a large percentage of the population can pay for quite a bit more than six years). Do you interpret it to mean "If you are eligible, you can pay voluntary contributions for the past six years, and if you were born after <those dates> you can also pay for an additional ten years"?


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## jasdpace@gmail.

Hey basilbrush - I'm the one asking the questions!

Short answer yes. My reading of this is that I can go back to 2006. So for the first 10 years post 2016, I was working and since then I've been working on my golf handicap and driving the missus mad.

So let's say I wish to buy the first 10 years (i.e. the years that I was working). If I was still working now, Class 2 would undoubtedly apply. However, since I've stopped working, I'm not sure whether my UK contribution class is determined by my Irish social contribution status in the year that I wish to buy back or my current status. That's the essence of my question.

I had hoped that someone like Marc would have known as I've tried calling the folk working for Her Majesty and found them hard work and ended up none the wiser!!


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## 50andOut

It's a one off concession to allow backdated contributions to go back to 2006 - I think due to pension changes that were introduced The standard is backdating 6 years, which it will revert to after April 2023


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## basilbrush

@jasdpace: That is indeed a question that I do not think is clearly answered by the online information. Perhaps you will have to try calling again, and hopefully this time you might get someone more helpful. Which office did you call? I imagine that the International Pensions Centre, the Future Pensions Centre, and HMRC might all be relevant.


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## jasdpace@gmail.

Thanks basilbrush,

I rang the International Centre and HMRC - I'll have a strong whiskey and have another go.......are civil servants the same the world over?.....I'm surprised that no one here seems to know the answer to the question?


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## MG Midget

I am in the process of doing same, worked in UK for a few years in the 90’s.  I can pay for 10 years contributions for a cost of £2300 and guaranteed a weekly UK pension of £95 per week and then pay a yearLy stamp if working here in Ireland.  
I dealt with a Frank Buckley is USP financial in Tullamore, saw article in newspaper from him written by Charlie Weston. He charges €195 to check for you and if you are eligible another €195 for follow on steps.  I found him excellent and it’s a no brainer for me (I don’t have the patience to deal with HMRC), he seems to be an expert in this area


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## ATC110

I appealed HMRCs pension forecast a few times and was allocated notional years for periods of education/unemployment/caring while in the UK.

I now pay Class 2 NIVCs annually and compulsory PRSI contributions.

I'm on course for 35/35ths UK and 40/40ths Irish contributions if I continue contributing before age 66 so therefore meet the criteria for full state pensions from both under the current rules


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## Lisgoold

ATC110 said:


> I appealed HMRCs pension forecast a few times and was allocated notional years for periods of education/unemployment/caring while in the UK.
> 
> I now pay Class 2 NIVCs annually and compulsory PRSI contributions.
> 
> I'm on course for 35/35ths UK and 40/40ths Irish contributions if I continue contributing before age 66 so therefore meet the criteria for full state pensions from both under the current rules


How long before you find out if you actually start to receive the payments?


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## ATC110

Lisgoold said:


> How long before you find out if you actually start to receive the payments?


Circa 20 years


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## Lisgoold

ATC110 said:


> Circa 20 years


That's no good, I'll be dead by then 
Mine is about three years time. If I'm still here, and this place still exists, I'll let you know what happens!


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## ATC110

Lisgoold said:


> That's no good, I'll be dead by then


Well let's hope not!


Lisgoold said:


> Mine is about three years time. If I'm still here, and this place still exists, I'll let you know what happens!


There are previous discussions on AAM with people in receipt of two state pensions


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Lisgoold said:


> How long before you find out if you actually start to receive the payments?


Why would @ATC110 need to "find out"?

The criteria are the criteria and unless the rules change then an eligible claimant can get both UK and Irish state pensions.

Here is a thread where two posters claim they are in receipt of both.

Here is a Dáil debate from thirty years ago where it is clear you can receive both:


> First, the general rules governing the amount of Irish pension payable to old age pensioners living in Ireland who are in receipt of UK pension; one of two types of Irish pension may be payable in this circumstance: (a) a contributory (social insurance) old age or retirement pension which is decided on the basis of the claimant's social insurance record, or (b) a non-contributory (social assistance) old age pension which is decided on the basis of a means test under which the UK pension is included among the claimant's means.* People with a UK pension who also satisfy the contribution conditions for Irish contributory pension are entitled to that person *_[it should read "pension" I think]_* without abatement*


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## AndroidMan

Wasnt there a Brexit thing that they would only pay the state pension into a UK/sterling account?
I recall reading something like this somewhere, possibly on AAM.
I am paying my own class 2 and am keen to understand how this will all work when my own day comes to retire.


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## jasdpace@gmail.

MG Midget said:


> I dealt with a Frank Buckley is USP financial in Tullamore.....



Brilliant - Thanks MG - I'll reach out to him

I always figured that there must be some financial adviser that knew their onions in this regard.


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## Thirsty

From gov.co.uk
Bank accounts your pension can be paid into​Your State Pension can be paid into:


a bank in the country you’re living in
a bank or building society in the UK


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## Lisgoold

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Why would @ATC110 need to "find out"?
> 
> The criteria are the criteria and unless the rules change then an eligible claimant can get both UK and Irish state pensions.
> 
> Here is a thread where two posters claim they are in receipt of both.
> 
> Here is a Dáil debate from thirty years ago where it is clear you can receive both:


Many thanks for those links. The debate one does specify, living in Ireland. So I wonder if that is also one of the criteria.

My doubt about it, is simply down to the conversations I've had with the international pensions people in Newcastle, as they simply said they didn't know. Plus the face to face meeting I had at the Intreo office in Cork. When I showed them the PRSI record, which is 887 A1 contributions, they simply said they didn't know, and it would depend on the rules when the time comes....

Now that's fair enough, as they can't see into the future. But they wouldn't comment on whether it would be eligible under current rules at the time. 

Whether I use the old or new way of calculating, it does qualify. I'm not sure which date they mean 'started paying social insurance' date. As in, Ireland or UK. But either date would still qualify. Though the average would be much better using the Ireland start date! 

Anyway, thanks for the info, and hopefully you're right. Though I'm still not inclined to gamble on finishing early, and using 30 or 40 grand of savings to get through to state pension age !


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Lisgoold said:


> Many thanks for those links. The debate one does specify, living in Ireland. So I wonder if that is also one of the criteria.


As far as I know once you meet the criteria for a _contributory _pension in both jurisdictions you can be living on the Moon!



Lisgoold said:


> When I showed them the PRSI record, which is 887 A1 contributions, they simply said they didn't know, and it would depend on the rules when the time comes....


This is the standard response that "We don't do forecasts". 



Lisgoold said:


> My doubt about it, is simply down to the conversations I've had with the international pensions people in Newcastle, as they simply said they didn't know.


Of course they don't know or care! All they care about is whether you are eligible for a UK state pension on a contributory basis or not. There are hundreds of other foreign pension arrangements for people who've lived and worked in the UK in the past.


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## Gervan

Lisgoold said:


> Whether I use the old or new way of calculating, it does qualify. I'm not sure which date they mean 'started paying social insurance' date. As in, Ireland or UK. But either date would still qualify. Though the average would be much better using the Ireland start date!



I receive a 2/3 UK pension (could only back pay for 6 years and at Class 3, still worth it) and full Irish pension.  
I moved to Ireland in 1999, and until the rules change , that is the "started paying social insurance" date for working out the average. UK date irrelevant.

I am embarrassed that some of my Irish friends, who started work as teenagers, but then have gaps in their social insurance record, receive less than a full pension.


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## ATC110

Gervan said:


> I moved to Ireland in 1999, and until the rules change , that is the "started paying social insurance" date for working out the average. UK date irrelevant.


Could you explain this? 
Thanks


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## Marc

ATC110 said:


> Could you explain this?
> Thanks


The Irish state pension is averaged from when you first started paying PRSI.

So if I rock up in Ireland aged 57 I could easily have a full pension aged 67 whereas my wife who had a part time job in SuperValu aged 17 would be heavily penalised.


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## ATC110

Marc said:


> The Irish state pension is averaged from when you first started paying PRSI.
> 
> So if I rock up in Ireland aged 57 I could easily have a full pension aged 67 whereas my wife who had a part time job in SuperValu aged 17 would be heavily penalised.


I understand that, I mean the sentence quoted specifically-it doesn't make sense


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## NoRegretsCoyote

Marc said:


> So if I rock up in Ireland aged 57 I could easily have a full pension aged 67


How would you accumulate enough credits for a full pension in ten years?


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## ATC110

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> How would you accumulate enough credits for a full pension in ten years?


It’s because of the maximum entry age, minimum contribution period and averaging rule. That person would have an average of 52 contributions per year for 10 years from age 57.

The TCA is much fairer.


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## Gervan

ATC110 said:


> I understand that, I mean the sentence quoted specifically-it doesn't make sense


So 1999 was the date I started working here and paying Irish social insurance. Sorry if that was unclear. I wasn't saying 1999 was the relevant date for everyone.

I think when the rules change it will be based on total contributions/credits over your lifetime, which is much fairer.


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## basilbrush

@jasdpace@gmail. Did you find out yet whether payment of voluntary national insurance contributions for years when you were working abroad can be paid at class 2 (instead of class 3) even when paid in arrears?

Also, does anyone know whether years in which you made the mandatory class S PRSI contribution of Eur 500 because you had unearned income over Eur 5k (but didn't have any other employment) might be classified as "working" for the purposes of UK national insurance voluntary contributions (qualifying for the class 2 rate)?


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## ATC110

basilbrush said:


> @jasdpace@gmail. Did you find out yet whether payment of voluntary national insurance contributions for years when you were working abroad can be paid at class 2 (instead of class 3) even when paid in arrears?


I paid Class 2 in arrears but had to prove to HMRC that I was now employed overseas and compulsorily insured


basilbrush said:


> Also, does anyone know whether years in which you made the mandatory class S PRSI contribution of Eur 500 because you had unearned income over Eur 5k (but didn't have any other employment) might be classified as "working" for the purposes of UK national insurance voluntary contributions (qualifying for the class 2 rate)?


You might be better off having two partial pensions rather than combining contributions for one?


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## basilbrush

Thank you for the information, @ATC110 . Do you know if it made a difference that you were still employed at the time that you made the payment? If I was working for some years and not working for others, could some years of arrears be paid at class 2 and others at class 3? They sent out an email to me stating what years I could pay voluntary contributions for, and how much they would cost (all at class 3) but never asked if I was working during those years.

I didn't think "combining contributions for one" was possible. My understanding was the only type of "combining" is that years worked in certain other countries could count towards the 10 years needed to qualify for a pension, but the actual amount you receive from any country will only depend on the contributions in that country. So if you work 5 years in the UK and 5 years in Ireland you qualify for a pension from both, but both will only pay you for 5 years of contributions.

In my case I think it might be better to not claim a partial pension from Ireland (and so forgo any benefits from my Irish contributions) as it will cause me to lose the medical card that I would get from having a UK/EU pension without receiving Irish welfare. A medical card might be more valuable than a partial Irish pension.


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## Feemar5

My husband has a full contributory Irish State pension and a reduced British one which he paid into.    They also gave me a small pension  ( based on his contributions) which I got at 60 as that used to be the pension age for women in the UK


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## ATC110

basilbrush said:


> Thank you for the information, @ATC110 . Do you know if it made a difference that you were still employed at the time that you made the payment?


Yes, if I hadn't been employed the more expensive Class 3 rate would have applied for ongoing annual payments. It's still a great return though.


basilbrush said:


> If I was working for some years and not working for others, could some years of arrears be paid at class 2 and others at class 3? They sent out an email to me stating what years I could pay voluntary contributions for, and how much they would cost (all at class 3) but never asked if I was working during those years.


I would check with HMRC-I had a combination of Class 2 and 3 in the arrears statement and opted to buy the Class 2 years only based upon having enough time before retirement age to annually buy Class 2 VICs


basilbrush said:


> I didn't think "combining contributions for one" was possible. My understanding was the only type of "combining" is that years worked in certain other countries could count towards the 10 years needed to qualify for a pension, but the actual amount you receive from any country will only depend on the contributions in that country. So if you work 5 years in the UK and 5 years in Ireland you qualify for a pension from both, but both will only pay you for 5 years of contributions.


The DSP pension department will ask if you have worked in the UK or another EU member state and use those contributions for pension calculation purposes. When ready to claim your pension, I would still check if you'd be better off claiming two separate pensions though


basilbrush said:


> In my case I think it might be better to not claim a partial pension from Ireland (and so forgo any benefits from my Irish contributions) as it will cause me to lose the medical card that I would get from having a UK/EU pension without receiving Irish welfare. A medical card might be more valuable than a partial Irish pension.


If your medical card is subject to a means test, the UK pension will form part of that though?


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## basilbrush

ATC110 said:


> use those contributions for pension calculation purposes.



There is an example on https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas where someone who worked for 7 years in the UK and 16 years in an EEA country will qualify for a UK pension (as the total is more than 10 years) but the pension they receive from the UK will only be based on the 7 years that they worked there.

Additionally, the Irish DSP says that you can send your information about work in other EEA countries to them and they will apply for the pensions from those countries on your behalf. I am quite sure that it is not possible to instead combine them into one country's pension (you can't get an Irish pension equivalent to 20 years of contributions by combining 10 years in Ireland and 10 years in the UK - only two pensions for 10 years each from Ireland and the UK).



ATC110 said:


> If your medical card is subject to a means test, the UK pension will form part of that though?


The EU pension medical card is not subject to a means test. See "Entitlement under EU Regulations" here: 





						Medical cards
					

The medical card scheme entitles certain people to free public health services. This document explains the medical card and how to apply for it.




					www.citizensinformation.ie


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## ATC110

basilbrush said:


> There is an example on https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas where someone who worked for 7 years in the UK and 16 years in an EEA country will qualify for a UK pension (as the total is more than 10 years) but the pension they receive from the UK will only be based on the 7 years that they worked there.





basilbrush said:


> Additionally, the Irish DSP says that you can send your information about work in other EEA countries to them and they will apply for the pensions from those countries on your behalf. I am quite sure that it is not possible to instead *combine them into one country's pension* (you can't get an Irish pension equivalent to 20 years of contributions by combining 10 years in Ireland and 10 years in the UK - only two pensions for 10 years each from Ireland and the UK).



There is a bilateral agreement: 

_If you have worked in Ireland and also in one or more EU states, your social insurance contributions from each EU state will be added to your Irish PRSI contributions to help you to qualify for a social welfare payment, such as a State pension_






						State Pension (Contributory)
					

The State Pension (Contributory), previously called the Old Age (Contributory) Pension, is payable to people aged 66 and over who have worked and paid enough social insurance contributions.




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				




See _Pro rata EU pension _subheading 

This also still applies to contributions paid in the UK 


basilbrush said:


> The EU pension medical card is not subject to a means test. See "Entitlement under EU Regulations" here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Medical cards
> 
> 
> The medical card scheme entitles certain people to free public health services. This document explains the medical card and how to apply for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.citizensinformation.ie


What about other income/capital you may have?


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## NoRegretsCoyote

basilbrush said:


> Also, does anyone know whether years in which you made the mandatory class S PRSI contribution of Eur 500 because you had unearned income over Eur 5k (but didn't have any other employment) might be classified as "working" for the purposes of UK national insurance voluntary contributions (qualifying for the class 2 rate)?


Class S from rental income is certainly classified as "compulsory income" for the purposes of the bilateral arrangement with the UK. Class S income is paid by all self-employed people so it kind of has to be counted this way.


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## basilbrush

@ATC110 I interpret that to mean that it works the way that I thought it did: EEA contributions can be used to _help you qualify_ for an Irish pension: if they add to more than 10 years you qualify, even if you worked fewer than 10 in Ireland, but you get a _pro rata_ pension from Ireland, proportionate to the number of years you have worked here. The page https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...cial_insurance_contributions_from_abroad.html seems to quite clear on this (in the "How your social insurance contributions under bilateral social security agreements are calculated" section).
.
@NoRegretsCoyote I'll have to call them again, then!


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## ATC110

basilbrush said:


> @ATC110 I interpret that to mean that it works the way that I thought it did: EEA contributions can be used to _help you qualify_ for an Irish pension: if they add to more than 10 years you qualify, even if you worked fewer than 10 in Ireland, but you get a _pro rata_ pension from Ireland, proportionate to the number of years you have worked here.


Pro rata pension proportionate to the number of combined contributions paid being less than the required 2080 to qualify for a full contributory state pension. 

Apparently the DSP will calculate your pension in the most beneficial way to the claimant. 

There are several previous posts discussing this issue in detail.

I would contact the DSP to clarify this.


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## ClubMan

Contributory pension PRSI criteria are explained here:





						State Pension (Contributory)
					

The State Pension (Contributory), previously called the Old Age (Contributory) Pension, is payable to people aged 66 and over who have worked and paid enough social insurance contributions.




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				








						Social insurance
					

Social insurance contributions entitle you to a range of benefits administered by the Department of Social Protection.




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				








						State Pension (Contributory)
					

A social insurance benefit which you may qualify for when you reach a certain age.




					www.gov.ie
				











						State pensions
					

Your State pension will provide you with a basic level of retirement income, provided you qualify. The State pension is intended to ensure that everyone receives a basic standard of living in retirement. For example, the full State Pension (Contributory) is €13,172 per year (or €253.30 per...



					www.pensionsauthority.ie
				



You can check your PRSI contribution history in MyWelfare:





						Homepage
					

MyWelfare




					services.mywelfare.ie


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## NoRegretsCoyote

basilbrush said:


> @NoRegretsCoyote I'll have to call them again, then!



The NI38 guidance says that you have to be "employed or self-employed abroad" to be able to qualify for the lower-cost Class 2 and they look for details of your self employment. For the years where you weren't in paid employment in Ireland I would say something like "landlord and property management, social insurance on rental income paid at self-employment rates (PRSI Class S)". HMRC might accept this as "self employment" for and let you pay Class 2 for the relevant years.

It might be relevant as well to point them to the answer from the Irish Minister last year that Class S PRSI amounts to compulsory insurance for the purposes of the Bilateral Convention.



> Chapter 3 of Part 2 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 (as amended) requires all self-employed workers aged between 16 years and pensionable age (currently 66 years) with income of €5,000 or more per annum to pay social insurance contributions.
> 
> The social insurance contributions paid by self-employed workers are categorised as class S.
> 
> For the purposes of Articles 8 and 12 of the Convention on Social Security between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dated 1 February 2019, class S social insurance is compulsory insurance.
> 
> I trust that this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.



At very worse HMRC will make you pay at the more expensive Class 3 rate but this is still incredible value and I wouldn't argue too much further.


----------



## 3CC

Thanks for pointing this out. I am in a similar situation and so I just read the NI 38 document.

Just one question - the document states:

_To qualify for most of the benefits mentioned in this section,
you need to have sufficient NICs on your National Insurance record
for the ‘relevant tax years’.
The relevant tax years are normally the last 2 complete tax years
which precede the benefit year in which you claim benefit_

Does this mean that you must have paid NI in the final 2 years prior to retirement in order to qualify for the state pension?

Thanks...


----------



## phoenix53

JSF221 said:


> Moved to Ireland from the UK 15 years ago and I've worked in Ireland consistently since then except a period of unemployment in 2009. I have 7 full years NI contributions up to 2005 from employment before moving here, with 15 years missing. I applied to HMRC using form NI38/CF83 and I got a reply to say I can pay class 2 for each each of the missing 15 years, except the period of unemployment in 2009 of which class 3 will apply. Total quote to buy back all 15 years for a little of £2500.00. That'll bring me up to 22 years towards the 35 needed for a full UK state pension. From April 2022, they'll send me an invoice each year to pay class 2 as long as I'm working in Ireland. If I stop working, I need to let them know as it'll be class 3 in that case.
> 
> I've got to 2023 to pay voluntary contributions between 2006 and 2016, I then lose them forever. I'm settled in Ireland, so have no plans on moving back to the UK. Now, I know the SP might not be there by the time I reach SPA, but it could be, none of us know for sure.
> 
> Based on the facts we have right now, it seems to be a worthwhile investment to make, am I missing something though? From what I've read in previous posts, I should be able to claim both UK and Irish state pensions (based on today's rules of course). I'll also have the expected 40 years contributions in Ireland by the time I hit my early to mid 60s.
> 
> Is this too good to be true?
> 
> thanks


HI JSF221, could you let me know how long it took from asking for the quote to receiving it?

Thank you.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

@phoenix53 

It took me something like 6 to 8 weeks.


----------



## phoenix53

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> @phoenix53
> 
> It took me something like 6 to 8 weeks.


Thanks


----------



## JSF221

phoenix53 said:


> HI JSF221, could you let me know how long it took from asking for the quote to receiving it?
> 
> Thank you.


@phoenix53 it was about 6 to 8 weeks for me also. I paid the lump sum and all missing 15 years are now full. I used revolut to transfer the payment. It was all very easy once they confirmed I was eligible to pay. I'll now pay annually moving forward.


----------



## Andynb

i had got one back recently and that took over 20 weeks. I`ve got till April to pay it off, from what the letter states. But then you can set a DD for the years after.


----------



## phoenix53

Thanks.  My hubby sent off a request 12 weeks ago, heard nothing yet.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

phoenix53 said:


> Thanks. My hubby sent off a request 12 weeks ago, heard nothing yet.


You hear of turnaround times of 6-10 weeks. 12 sounds on the long side and it might be worth calling them.


----------



## Peanuts20

Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS

If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense. 

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.


----------



## jfrank

Peanuts20 said:


> Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS
> 
> If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.
> 
> I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.


£2388.15 and £11986.00 respectively if paid before 5th April 2022. Chances are you will not get approval that fast from HMRC so, you will pay at the rates nominated for 2022/23 and I think that means the total for Class 2 remains the same but the Class 3 total comes to £12,334.40


----------



## Lisgoold

Peanuts20 said:


> I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.


I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever seen anyone say that.  You must have got lucky.


----------



## phoenix53

Peanuts20 said:


> Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS
> 
> If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.
> 
> I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.


Sorry jfrank, I selected a paragraph you wrote by mistake and don't know how to delete the reference 

Peanuts 20, do you have a note of the phone number you called the HMRC on?  If you do, would you mind sharing?

Thank you.


----------



## Peanuts20

phoenix53 said:


> Sorry jfrank, I selected a paragraph you wrote by mistake and don't know how to delete the reference
> 
> Peanuts 20, do you have a note of the phone number you called the HMRC on?  If you do, would you mind sharing?
> 
> Thank you.


HMRC in Newcastle is the starting point to get your state pension forecast. + 44 191 2183600

Once you have that, ring them again and they'll give you the amounts you need to pay and then ask you to contact the NI office on +44 191 203 7010 for next step


----------



## Zep240

Are there any benefits or downsides from paying Class 2 vs Class 3 VIC (aside from the cost) ? 

If you qualify for the cheaper Class 2 are there any implications if you intend to retire in Ireland. For example, UK pension will not be credited for the VIC years OR post retirement UK pension is not increased inline with the future UK rate increases.


----------



## phoenix53

Peanuts20 said:


> HMRC in Newcastle is the starting point to get your state pension forecast. + 44 191 2183600
> 
> Once you have that, ring them again and they'll give you the amounts you need to pay and then ask you to contact the NI office on +44 191 203 7010 for next step


Thank you.

He got on to them today and said they were very helpful and very pleasant.


----------



## Farma1

Zep240 said:


> Are there any benefits or downsides from paying Class 2 vs Class 3 VIC (aside from the cost) ?
> 
> If you qualify for the cheaper Class 2 are there any implications if you intend to retire in Ireland. For example, UK pension will not be credited for the VIC years OR post retirement UK pension is not increased inline with the future UK rate increases.


Yes there are some differences but as far as Im aware not to pensions - its more the provision of other benefits you get form paying NI. These are covered by your PRSI here hence the UK applies a reduced rate to your NI as you'll be getting reduced benefits in total from the UK. As i say though, i think pension entitlements are identical.


----------



## Knowledgequest

I lived in the UK for 12 years from 1987 to 1999 and according to the HMRC I have 15 years full NI contributions.
My intention is to purchase voluntary years of NI contributions (hopefully Class 2) so I am completing application form CF83. I have a
query regarding question 18 on the form:

Question 18 asks - Are you or will you be working abroad for an employer?

Does this mean are you working abroad for a UK employer ? Do I leave this answer blank and just include a separate detailed list
of all my employers since returning to Ireland or should I enter my current Irish employer's details there ?

Any assistance would be much appreciated.


----------



## jfrank

Knowledgequest said:


> I lived in the UK for 12 years from 1987 to 1999 and according to the HMRC I have 15 years full NI contributions.
> My intention is to purchase voluntary years of NI contributions (hopefully Class 2) so I am completing application form CF83. I have a
> query regarding question 18 on the form:
> 
> Question 18 asks - Are you or will you be working abroad for an employer?
> 
> Does this mean are you working abroad for a UK employer ? Do I leave this answer blank and just include a separate detailed list
> of all my employers since returning to Ireland or should I enter my current Irish employer's details there ?
> 
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.


Leave Q18 blank as I presume you are not working for a UK employer here in Ireland.  And yes, add a separate page with your employments in Ireland since you returned including:
- Name/Address of Employer
- Dates from and to for each employment

The basic idea is thet you must show you were in "insured employment abroad (Ireland)" for the years for which you wish to pay Class 2


----------



## Knowledgequest

jfrank said:


> Leave Q18 blank as I presume you are not working for a UK employer here in Ireland.  And yes, add a separate page with your employments in Ireland since you returned including:
> - Name/Address of Employer
> - Dates from and to for each employment
> 
> The basic idea is thet you must show you were in "insured employment abroad (Ireland)" for the years for which you wish to pay Class 2


@jfrank ......Thank you for the clarification.


----------



## basilbrush

An update on my experience:

In the end I decided to just pay UK voluntary national insurance contributions at the Class 3 rate. There was possibly a chance of qualifying for Class 2, but there were also doubts (it wasn't clear whether paying Class S contributions in Ireland due to non-PAYE income met the UK's definition of "self employed") and so I decided to be safe and just go with Class 3. I used Wise to transfer the money. After 9 weeks I hadn't heard anything, so I called them and found out that my contribution was recorded, so their confirmation reply must have been lost in the post. They then immediately offered to start my pension. I thought I would need to fill out a form, but in fact you can do it over the phone. They took some details (such as the IBAN and BIC of the bank account that you want the pension paid into), and said they would backdate it to the date that I paid the voluntary contributions.

All of my dealings were with the International Pensions Centre. I really found that they were a pleasure to talk to. You can be on hold for quite a while, but the people that I eventually got through to were always lovely and very helpful.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

basilbrush said:


> An update on my experience:
> 
> In the end I decided to just pay UK voluntary national insurance contributions at the Class 3 rate. There was possibly a chance of qualifying for Class 2, but there were also doubts (it wasn't clear whether paying Class S contributions in Ireland due to non-PAYE income met the UK's definition of "self employed") and so I decided to be safe and just go with Class 3. I used Wise to transfer the money. After 9 weeks I hadn't heard anything, so I called them and found out that my contribution was recorded, so their confirmation reply must have been lost in the post. They then immediately offered to start my pension. I thought I would need to fill out a form, but in fact you can do it over the phone. They took some details (such as the IBAN and BIC of the bank account that you want the pension paid into), and said they would backdate it to the date that I paid the voluntary contributions.
> 
> All of my dealings were with the International Pensions Centre. I really found that they were a pleasure to talk to. You can be on hold for quite a while, but the people that I eventually got through to were always lovely and very helpful.


Great news!

Just remember you are liable to income tax on the UK pension if resident in Ireland. People have been caught out by this before and got a nasty surprise!


----------



## Chewbacca

I'm just doing this now, I thought you could only go back 2 years for retrospective contributions and even then it's about £800 a year versus about £150pa when up to date. 

I just sent form off a few weeks ago and nothing..... does anyone know if it can be done online or can you follow up via the Government Gateway account, id didn't seem to have an online option and I can imagine a lot of UK HMRC staff working half the week at homes these days.


----------



## Chewbacca

JSF221 said:


> Moved to Ireland from the UK 15 years ago and I've worked in Ireland consistently since then except a period of unemployment in 2009. I have 7 full years NI contributions up to 2005 from employment before moving here, with 15 years missing. I applied to HMRC using form NI38/CF83 and I got a reply to say I can pay class 2 for each each of the missing 15 years, except the period of unemployment in 2009 of which class 3 will apply. Total quote to buy back all 15 years for a little of £2500.00. That'll bring me up to 22 years towards the 35 needed for a full UK state pension. From April 2022, they'll send me an invoice each year to pay class 2 as long as I'm working in Ireland. If I stop working, I need to let them know as it'll be class 3 in that case.
> 
> I've got to 2023 to pay voluntary contributions between 2006 and 2016, I then lose them forever. I'm settled in Ireland, so have no plans on moving back to the UK. Now, I know the SP might not be there by the time I reach SPA, but it could be, none of us know for sure.
> 
> Based on the facts we have right now, it seems to be a worthwhile investment to make, am I missing something though? From what I've read in previous posts, I should be able to claim both UK and Irish state pensions (based on today's rules of course). I'll also have the expected 40 years contributions in Ireland by the time I hit my early to mid 60s.
> 
> Is this too good to be true?
> 
> thanks


I was very surprised that you could pay more than 2 years prior I always thought it ha been 6 then reduced to 2? In light of this can anyone confirm the Irish position. Spent about 25 years in UK will voluntary to cover off full pension but can I pay retrospective Irish contributions , worked about 3 years in Ireland prior to going to UK, hope this class as hijacking someone's thread, apologies if it does.


----------



## basilbrush

Which form did you send off a few weeks ago? To find out what voluntary contributions I could pay I called the International Pensions Centre and they sent me an email with the list of years and the cost on the same day. When I sent off the form they attached (it's not the CRF83 one, but a special one for the International Pensions Centre) I didn't hear anything for 9 weeks so called and confirmed that it had been processed.

You can pay quite a few years of UK voluntary contributions in arrears until April next year, at which time I think it reduces to 6 years.

I think you need to have 10 years of contributions in Ireland before you can make Irish voluntary contributions.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

Chewbacca said:


> I just sent form off a few weeks ago and nothing.....



Responses can take two months in my experience.



Chewbacca said:


> does anyone know if it can be done online or can you follow up via the Government Gateway account, id didn't seem to have an online option


This only works if you have a UK address!



Chewbacca said:


> worked about 3 years in Ireland prior to going to UK,


In Ireland can only make voluntary PRSI contributions if you are not covered by a social security regime in another EU member state or the UK, and there is a strict five-year cut-off. 

UK rules are much more lax. In general it is far easier to make UK voluntary contributions when returned to Ireland than the other way round.


----------



## jfrank

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Responses can take two months in my experience.
> 
> 
> This only works if you have a UK address!
> 
> 
> In Ireland can only make voluntary PRSI contributions if you are not covered by a social security regime in another EU member state or the UK, and there is a strict five-year cut-off.
> 
> UK rules are much more lax. In general it is far easier to make UK voluntary contributions when returned to Ireland than the other way round.


Agreed on all points Coyote!


----------



## Peanuts20

Peanuts20 said:


> Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS
> 
> If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.
> 
> I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.



So to update on this, I got approved for Class 2. it's a little more then I anticipated, coming in at £3270 but still a no brainer to be honest. It'll pay for itself in just over a year, assuming I reach retirement   

One odd thing that I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on, the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to £15.85 per week. Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.


----------



## ATC110

Peanuts20 said:


> the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to *£15.85 per week.* Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.



It seems like those years are assessed at the Class 3 rate for whatever reason. I would query this with HMRC.

I only bought back the Class 2 years, and omitted Class 3 years,  as I had time to continue making enough VCs on an annual basis up to the maximum period prior to reaching retirement age.


----------



## deanpark

Peanuts20 said:


> So to update on this, I got approved for Class 2. it's a little more then I anticipated, coming in at £3270 but still a no brainer to be honest. It'll pay for itself in just over a year, assuming I reach retirement
> 
> One odd thing that I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on, the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to £15.85 per week. Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.


Was there any change in your work circumstances in RoI? I'm fairly sure you have to be paying Class A PRSI in RoI (maybe fulltime employment too?) to get Class 2.  Thats my experience.

 I have 18 years banked based on 10 yrs actual UK stamps & 8 years bought @ Class 2 and hope to get around 30 + years worth of UK State pension by the end of my working life (!). I turned down Class 3 due to the cost where I was offered them.


----------



## MoneyLar

Hoping I can tag a question on here... Based on the info on this site (https://www.uspfinancial.ie/uk-state-pension/) there's a suggestion that you can have a 'combined' old and new UK state pension amount payable should you be able to make the contributions?

I appreciate it is probably a nuanced scenario based on age etc but taking my own personal circumstances :

I'm 36, from England and lived there til I was 18 / 22 (went back to England to do summer work sony arguably resident in England then too?) when I came to college in Dublin. I started working in Ireland then in 2012 when I was 26. 

I'm looking at the possibility of being able to get 35 years of NI contributions, which I can do based on the website from post 2016 (age 30 to 65 or realistically 70 by the time I get to retirement!!). The link suggests full UK £181 p/w pension.

If I then look at pre 2016 contributions, of which I have 3 purely by virtue of staying on at school in England when 16-18 (2002-04) and the potential to topup some pre 2016 years to qualify for the older version? 


Am I completely mad here in thinking I can get the full 181 p/w pension plus some of the other one or is the website author really talking about people who might be coming up to / closer to retirement age who wouldn't be able to work back as far as I can and so might only ever be able to get a % of the new 181 p/w plus be able to add some under the old 30 years NIC rule?


----------



## deanpark

Ups guy will tell you definitively.


----------



## Peanuts20

deanpark said:


> Was there any change in your work circumstances in RoI? I'm fairly sure you have to be paying Class A PRSI in RoI (maybe fulltime employment too?) to get Class 2.  Thats my experience.
> 
> I have 18 years banked based on 10 yrs actual UK stamps & 8 years bought @ Class 2 and hope to get around 30 + years worth of UK State pension by the end of my working life (!). I turned down Class 3 due to the cost where I was offered them.


 no change over here in my circumstances so it's a question I'll have to ask them


----------



## 50andOut

MoneyLar said:


> Hoping I can tag a question on here... Based on the info on this site (https://www.uspfinancial.ie/uk-state-pension/) there's a suggestion that you can have a 'combined' old and new UK state pension amount payable should you be able to make the contributions?
> 
> I appreciate it is probably a nuanced scenario based on age etc but taking my own personal circumstances :
> 
> I'm 36, from England and lived there til I was 18 / 22 (went back to England to do summer work sony arguably resident in England then too?) when I came to college in Dublin. I started working in Ireland then in 2012 when I was 26.
> 
> I'm looking at the possibility of being able to get 35 years of NI contributions, which I can do based on the website from post 2016 (age 30 to 65 or realistically 70 by the time I get to retirement!!). The link suggests full UK £181 p/w pension.
> 
> If I then look at pre 2016 contributions, of which I have 3 purely by virtue of staying on at school in England when 16-18 (2002-04) and the potential to topup some pre 2016 years to qualify for the older version?
> 
> 
> Am I completely mad here in thinking I can get the full 181 p/w pension plus some of the other one or is the website author really talking about people who might be coming up to / closer to retirement age who wouldn't be able to work back as far as I can and so might only ever be able to get a % of the new 181 p/w plus be able to add some under the old 30 years NIC rule?



You are completely mad. Its capped at £185 pw - that site is suggesting there is a weighting of your prsi contributions if you do not have the 35 under the New state pension and will be able to use prsi contribution pre 2016 to get the lessor amnt of the older basic state pension.

However I have not seen any reference to this hybrid rate of payment anywhere in my dealings on this - as per uk revenue: 

_You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension if you’re:_

_ man born on or after 6 April 1951_
_a woman born on or after 6 April 1953_

Register with UK govt gateway and check your own forecast. I would not recommend using any of these so called service providers to check what is a very straightforward process which you do directly with revenue

50+o.


----------



## ATC110

On a related topic, anyone who opted out of SERPS will probably need more than 35 years NI contributions to qualify for the UK state pension at the maximum rate.


----------



## MoneyLar

50andOut said:


> You are completely mad. Its capped at £185 pw - that site is suggesting there is a weighting of your prsi contributions if you do not have the 35 under the New state pension and will be able to use prsi contribution pre 2016 to get the lessor amnt of the older basic state pension.
> 
> However I have not seen any reference to this hybrid rate of payment anywhere in my dealings on this - as per uk revenue:
> 
> _You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension if you’re:_
> 
> _ man born on or after 6 April 1951_
> _a woman born on or after 6 April 1953_
> 
> Register with UK govt gateway and check your own forecast. I would not recommend using any of these so called service providers to check what is a very straightforward process which you do directly with revenue
> 
> 50+o.


Thanks and from all my reading on the UK sites I didn't come across that hybrid scenario so was confused and thought it was too good to be true.

I don't intend to use the services as have called the future pensions line - I can't register on govuk to see it online as only have my UK passport but no second form of identification to be able to register. The NI line I first spoke to confirmed I had my 3 years from when I was doing my a levels (grants exemptions from NI contributions and counts as my 3 years pension starter) so waiting on the paper form pension forecast. 

I assume it will default to class 3 required contributions but sending in the CF83 form today to get put under class 2 for what I hope is at least the years I am working here (the last 10), those going forward and perhaps backdated years from when I was studying here (don't expect to get away with these ones as assume university study doesn't count as NI / PRSI exempt towards pension contributions)


----------



## jfrank

ATC110 said:


> It seems like those years are assessed at the Class 3 rate for whatever reason. I would query this with HMRC.
> 
> I only bought back the Class 2 years, and omitted Class 3 years,  as I had time to continue making enough VCs on an annual basis up to the maximum period prior to reaching retirement age.


Very sensible idea, max what you can do at Class 2 and ignore the rest.... I am doing that myself!


----------



## jfrank

ATC110 said:


> On a related topic, anyone who opted out of SERPS will probably need more than 35 years NI contributions to qualify for the UK state pension at the maximum rate.


Interesting. I opted out back in the 90s when I was in a DB scheme with my employer. Eventually some years later the DB scheme was would up and my paltry benefit went into a PRB which it now seems is a very inflexible instrument. So, you are saying 35 q/years will not secure me the full standard £185.15pw.... why?


----------



## ATC110

....


----------



## ATC110

jfrank said:


> Interesting. I opted out back in the 90s when I was in a DB scheme with my employer. Eventually some years later the DB scheme was would up and my paltry benefit went into a PRB which it now seems is a very inflexible instrument. So, you are saying 35 q/years will not secure me the full standard £185.15pw.... why?



SERPS was a top up to the basic state pension. For those who opted out, a proportion of their NI contributions were diverted to the private pension plan that they had to set up therefore creating a shortfall of contributions towards the now flat-rate state pension. 

(Detailed explanation in the link below)

In my case I need 37 rather than 35 years to qualify for the maximum state pension.

Your pension forecast can be viewed on the Government Gateway.









						State second pension and Serps
					

Get to grips with how the state second pension worked, how much additional state pension you could get as a result and more on the Serps, S2P and the new state pension.




					www.which.co.uk


----------



## Yam1960

*Making one-off payment for Class 2 NICs*

I made a lump sum payment at the end of May for 16years Class 2 NICs. Just rang HMRC in UK, they have received the payment, but it has not been allocated to my account. The chap I spoke to, said he would send a note to an "International Caseworker" in HMRC, who would do the allocation, apparently this would normally be marked as a "priority". A letter confirming the allocation should be sent to me when this is done. He was unable to give a time line for likely completion.

Just posting this here, as it may be helpful for people to chase their case. I rang 0044 191 203 7010


----------



## ATC110

Yam1960 said:


> *Making one-off payment for Class 2 NICs*
> 
> I made a lump sum payment at the end of May for 16years Class 2 NICs. Just rang HMRC in UK, they have received the payment, but it has not been allocated to my account. The chap I spoke to, said he would send a note to an "International Caseworker" in HMRC, who would do the allocation, apparently this would normally be marked as a "priority". A letter confirming the allocation should be sent to me when this is done. He was unable to give a time line for likely completion.
> 
> Just posting this here, as it may be helpful for people to chase their case. I rang 0044 191 203 7010


Be prepared to contact HMRC multiple times to get this done.

It was an efficient service but since March 2020, the service has effectively stopped-no letter inviting a voluntary contribution, payment not allocated and no receipt for payment.

I've had to call them repeatedly to get all of the above-mentioned carried out in recent times.


----------



## Knowledgequest

I just received a reply today from HMRC which is 19 weeks after sending off my CF83 form enquiring about paying voluntary
NI contributions. So anyway they have told me I can purchase 11 years class 2 NICs and 5 mixed class 2/3 Nics. The class 2 NICs
come to £1636 and the mixed class 2/3 comes to £3168.50. I already have 15 years so I am thinking of buying just the class 2 NICs
that will give me 26 years and pay annually until retirement age which should take me more or less to 35 years contributions.

Does this sound like the best plan and if so can someone let me know the best and easiest way to pay the lump sum for the class 2 NIC's ?


----------



## ATC110

Knowledgequest said:


> I just received a reply today from HMRC which is 19 weeks after sending off my CF83 form enquiring about paying voluntary
> NI contributions. So anyway they have told me I can purchase 11 years class 2 NICs and 5 mixed class 2/3 Nics. The class 2 NICs
> come to £1636 and the mixed class 2/3 comes to £3168.50. I already have 15 years so I am thinking of buying just the class 2 NICs
> that will give me 26 years and pay annually until retirement age which should take me more or less to 35 years contributions.
> 
> Does this sound like the best plan and if so can someone let me know the best and easiest way to pay the lump sum for the class 2 NIC's ?


I did similar to this, only buying the class 2 years. and buying a voluntarily contribution annually- I’m now at 32 years.
I opted out of SERPS years ago so my contribution period will be 37 years for a full UK state pension so it’s worth checking this.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

Knowledgequest said:


> Does this sound like the best plan and if so can someone let me know the best and easiest way to pay the lump sum for the class 2 NIC's ?


Does the letter not state how to pay?

From memory there is an IBAN and you have to quote your NI number and something else in the narrative.


----------



## Yam1960

For Class 2 payments, go to  https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance/bank-details and scroll to "overseas payments"- all is explained.

Thanks* ATC110 *I agree, polite persistence is what you need to progress matters. I will give them a few more months.


----------



## jfrank

ATC110 said:


> Be prepared to contact HMRC multiple times to get this done.
> 
> It was an efficient service but since March 2020, the service has effectively stopped-no letter inviting a voluntary contribution, payment not allocated and no receipt for payment.
> 
> I've had to call them repeatedly to get all of the above-mentioned carried out in recent times.


I would agree, receipting payments by HMRC is a bit haphazard. It seems they do not rank it as a priority. If you ring the NI Helpline (0044 191 2037010) they can confirm receipt of the payment verbally. 

I think though if you give it 3 - 4 months after making your payment, then apply to the DWP in Wolverhampton for an updated State Pension Forecast and when you get it, it should confirm a higher UK state pension benefit corresponding to the additional years you have purchased.

I am up to 18 qualifying years at this stage and still have 6 - 7 historic years to pay before April 2023. It is not bad from a 4.5 year spell working there back in the 90s


----------



## Knowledgequest

Yam1960 said:


> For Class 2 payments, go to  https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance/bank-details and scroll to "overseas payments"- all is explained.
> 
> Thanks* ATC110 *I agree, polite persistence is what you need to progress matters. I will give them a few more months.


Thanks for the information Yam1960, so what is the best method of payment ? is it to request a sterling transfer through my bank
to the HMRC account ?

There were no payment options in the letter that detailed what Class 2 NIC's I could purchase.


----------



## jim

Knowledgequest said:


> Thanks for the information Yam1960, so what is the best method of payment ? is it to request a sterling transfer through my bank
> to the HMRC account ?
> 
> There were no payment options in the letter that detailed what Class 2 NIC's I could purchase.


I made paymwnt from my stg revolut a/c to the iban they provide referencing my NI number


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

jim said:


> I made paymwnt from my stg revolut a/c to the iban they provide referencing my NI number





Knowledgequest said:


> Thanks for the information Yam1960, so what is the best method of payment ?


Cheapest FX fees and simplest is probably via Revolut.

That's how I do it.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

jfrank said:


> I would agree, receipting payments by HMRC is a bit haphazard. It seems they do not rank it as a priority. If you ring the NI Helpline (0044 191 2037010) they can confirm receipt of the payment verbally.


Every time I make a payment I write them a letter saying what year it relates to and what my NI number is and attach the details of the credit transfer.

I usually get confirmation about two months later.

In my experience they don't make mistakes, they are just very, very slow. They know this stuff is not at all time critical for most people and it gets low priority.


----------



## ukpokerguy

I made payments in May and last week to cover 3 years of outstanding NIC payments to bring my records upto 35 years paid.

I was informed that the workload of processing these payments can take upto 12 months.

Good job I'm not in a hurry as I'm 61 next month and can't get paid till 2028 anyway!


----------



## ATC110

HMRC VC Payment details: 

Sort code: 20-20-48
Account number: 30944793
Company name: GBS Re NICO Receipts HMRC

Include this reference: Your NI number followed by "IC", your surname and initial (no spaces, all capitals)

I have used this method for EFTs for several years without issue.


----------



## partnership

How do I get my contribution record to know if it is worthwhile buying back?


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

partnership said:


> How do I get my contribution record to know if it is worthwhile buying back?


Download form NI38 and send off the form at the end.

You won't get a quick reply so start straight away!


----------



## cwc456

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Download form NI38 and send off the form at the end.
> 
> You won't get a quick reply so start straight away!


They certainly are not quick in replying. I sent my NI38 in early June and have only got a reply now in mid October. The letter said to phone the Future Pensions people to check whether my pension forecast would increase as a result of voluntary NIC payments. I did that and was told that due to a change in legislation only contributions for years 2016 onward would increase my pension forecast.


----------



## jasdpace@gmail.

cwc456 said:


> ......*I did that and was told that due to a change in legislation only contributions for years 2016 onward would increase my pension forecast.*



Anyone know what this means? What changes have there been to the legislation? How could increasing the number of years not increase one's pension expectation (assuming that total years are less than the max)?


----------



## Marc

jasdpace@gmail. said:


> Anyone know what this means? What changes have there been to the legislation? How could increasing the number of years not increase one's pension expectation (assuming that total years are less than the max)?


That’s the change that comes into effect in April next year.

At present you can go back to 2005 but from next April you will be restricted to just 6 years. It’s all in my post









						Marc Westlake CFP, TEP, EFP, APFS on LinkedIn: Welcome to GOV.UK
					

This really isn’t getting the attention it deserves.  How many people in Ireland today will have worked at least 3 years in the U.K.?  A huge opportunity for…




					www.linkedin.com


----------



## jasdpace@gmail.

Thanks Marc......this is the second time in as many weeks that someone has said this and I just wanted to be sure to be sure (.....or does saying to be sure to be sure immediately disqualify me from a UK pension?)


----------



## jfrank

Marc said:


> That’s the change that comes into effect in April next year.
> 
> At present you can go back to 2005 but from next April you will be restricted to just 6 years. It’s all in my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc Westlake CFP, TEP, EFP, APFS on LinkedIn: Welcome to GOV.UK
> 
> 
> This really isn’t getting the attention it deserves.  How many people in Ireland today will have worked at least 3 years in the U.K.?  A huge opportunity for…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.linkedin.com





NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Every time I make a payment I write them a letter saying what year it relates to and what my NI number is and attach the details of the credit transfer.
> 
> I usually get confirmation about two months later.
> 
> In my experience they don't make mistakes, they are just very, very slow. They know this stuff is not at all time critical for most people and it gets low priority.


That is my read of it too Coyote, HMRC regard NICs as the poor cousin compared to the other taxes and definitely receipting NIC payments is well down their priorities.... just give them a few months after payment and then apply for an updated State Pension Forecast (Form BR19) and that should confirm they have allocated your payment.


----------



## Yam1960

I sent my NI38 and cover letter off on 21st Feb 2022, on 6th May they had calculated my "buy-back". I paid on 27th May 2022 and followed up by phone on *8th September *2022 to see about the crediting to my record, that's when the agent said he would send a note to HMRC for international caseworker, this normally would be "urgent". I received a letter this week, dated *4th October *to confirm the allocation. So I feel they did complete the last part reasonably quickly, but my call on the 8th September was important.


----------



## safetymom

I received my pension forecast and I have 8 years ( I was only in UK for 5 ) I am now filling out CF83 and I will attach a cover letter, a copy of my pension forecast and a CV showing my work history since returning home. Is there anything else I need? I dont want it bein delayed because I've omitted something.
I have a few further questions, should I fill out the Direct debit mandate on the bottom of the form?  
I know I am cutting it fine for the April 23 deadline... but do I still have time to maximise my years? 
I'm obviously hoping to get class 2 but if I get class 3 will there still be good value for me? I'm a public service employee and will have close to the 40 years service on retirement.
My husband on the other hand is from the UK originally, has actually 18 years of working there but we haven't had a pension forecast for him yet. He is a tradesman and has very little in the way of a private pension so he is the priority now to get over the line....just need to get him to ring HMRC as they wont speak t me on his behalf!! Again hoping we dont miss the deadline with him
Appreciate any advice


----------



## Yam1960

I just sent off my husbands form and cover letter today. I did mine back in Feb, got confirmation of buyback credits in May, which I paid. I am assuming that even though the clock is counting down to April 2023, if we get into the system before then, they will follow through. Maybe I am being optinistic but hopefully I will hear back by March 2023.

My husband only has 4 years but as he has an up and down PRSI record here, so I felt it was worth seeing what UK pension he could get, or indeed credits he could pull across to his Irish pension to help him up his averaging score. A lovely chap in Future Pensions said that even paying Class 3 at £824, you'd get your money back in 3 years of claiming the pension. Class 2, they are virtually paying for you.

With my cover letter I listed all employments and weeks employed since 2006, I even attached his DSP PRSI summary, as that shows, paid weeks of emplyment, to support my summary.


----------



## Marc

Another point to note that was another feature of the changes introduced in 2016 was that those already in receipt of a state pension may be able to improve their existing state pension 

If you've deferred your state pension or are already claiming it, you need to:

Contact the Pension Service on 0800 731 0469​It's free and phone lines are open between 8am and 6pm on Monday to Friday. See full Pension Service contact info.


----------



## Yam1960

Forgot to add, ring the Future Pensions people  and they can tell you over the phone how many years your husband needs, he will need to take the phone to confirm his details and NI number.

Re payment, you will need to pay the back credits in a lump sum, but you can decide later how you pay future credits, monthly, annually or in my case in a lump as I will be 67 in 5 years. You need to contact HMRC Voluntary Contributions for that, expect a long wait on the phone.


----------



## joe sod

I hear a company advertising on the radio about this topic of buying UK pension contributions.  From their advert the window to do this closes at the end of November this month


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

safetymom said:


> He is a tradesman and has very little in the way of a private pension so he is the priority now to get over the line....just need to get him to ring HMRC as they wont speak t me on his behalf!!


He doesn't need to talk to them at all!

Just send off the form to see what level of voluntary NICs he is entitled to pay.

My guess is that once you start the process before April 2023 they won't close the shutters on you


----------



## joe sod

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Look back over the threads and you will find people.
> 
> 
> 
> My reading of the criteria was that I probably wasn't eligible, but I sent off form NI38 anyway and they confirmed I was eligible for the more expensive Class 3 VCs. I am not quite sure why they accepted but they did and it was the best-value stamp I've ever bought.


I had a quick look at that NI38 form, it wants to know "your current UK address"  then "Name of the country you are going to"  etc

the whole thrust of the form and the questions are that the move "abroad" is in the future and you want to pay the voluntary contributions when you are abroad but all this is in the future.

Im intrigued to know how you completed this form if the "move abroad" was long in the past and that the contributions are to fill in for long periods that are in the past. The form doesn't appear to facilitate this? 
I would be grateful if you could enlighten me a little here?


----------



## Yam1960

joe sod said:


> I had a quick look at that NI38 form, it wants to know "your current UK address"  then "Name of the country you are going to"  etc
> 
> the whole thrust of the form and the questions are that the move "abroad" is in the future and you want to pay the voluntary contributions when you are abroad but all this is in the future.
> 
> Im intrigued to know how you completed this form if the "move abroad" was long in the past and that the contributions are to fill in for long periods that are in the past. The form doesn't appear to facilitate this?
> I would be grateful if you could enlighten me a little here?


I agree, the form is more for those about to leave,  that's why your covering letter and supporting information is important. These are the points I covered in my letter:-
* Had a subject line " Buying back NICs from abroad"
* first para, I let them know that I could do this as I had 3 years minimum of employment/NICs, I even quoted the date of my Pension Forcast. I let them know that I knew the rules were changing and that they will look at employment in Ireland from 2006, and I will therefore provide that detail. Dates of employment, company, weeks employed. Any proof of employment is helpful.
* I said I had completed NI38 to the best of my ability given the passage of time and that I am largely looking for "buy-back". 
I am sure the caseworkers are familiar with the "buy-back" senario for those outside UK, so as long as you fill in the form in some way and sign, you will be OK. The cover letter is important.


----------



## joe sod

Yam1960 said:


> I let them know that I knew the rules were changing and that they will look at employment in Ireland from 2006, and I will therefore provide that detail. Dates of employment, company, weeks employed


I don't understand why employment record in Ireland is relevant for a UK pension?
Is it to do with the unique circumstances pertaining to Ireland with regard to UK pensions and common travel area?


----------



## Marc

joe sod said:


> I don't understand why employment record in Ireland is relevant for a UK pension?
> Is it to do with the unique circumstances pertaining to Ireland with regard to UK pensions and common travel area?


If you move to Ireland to work you are assessed under class 2 which is considerably cheaper than class 3


----------



## joe sod

Yam1960 said:


> I agree, the form is more for those about to leave,  that's why your covering letter and supporting information is important. These are the points I covered in my letter:-
> * Had a subject line " Buying back NICs from abroad"
> * first para, I let them know that I could do this as I had 3 years minimum of employment/NICs, I even quoted the date of my Pension Forcast. I let them know that I knew the rules were changing and that they will look at employment in Ireland from 2006, and I will therefore provide that detail. Dates of employment, company, weeks employed. Any proof of employment is helpful.
> * I said I had completed NI38 to the best of my ability given the passage of time and that I am largely looking for "buy-back".
> I am sure the caseworkers are familiar with the "buy-back" senario for those outside UK, so as long as you fill in the form in some way and sign, you will be OK. The cover letter is important.


Thanks Yam for your help with this, I have the form almost complete however there is one important tick box
" Are you ordinarily resident in the UK"   tick yes   no
Of course I am not ordinarily resident so I presume I just tick No, however it seems to be an important question and by ticking "no" does this preclude me from taking part in this given that the whole format of NI38 is to facilitate people who are temporarily absent from UK and will be returning to UK in the coming years?


----------



## Marc

If not ordinarily U.K. resident tick to that effect. It has no bearing on eligibility to the best of my knowledge


----------



## jasdpace@gmail.

Yam1960 said:


> I will therefore provide that detail. Dates of employment, company, weeks employed. Any proof of employment is helpful.



Say, someone has been in Ireland since 2006 and that for the first 7 years after that, he was working and since 2014 he has not worked.

Does anyone know for sure whether the first 7 years are subject to class 2 contributions?


----------



## Marc

jasdpace@gmail. said:


> Say, someone has been in Ireland since 2006 and that for the first 7 years after that, he was working and since 2014 he has not worked.
> 
> Does anyone know for sure whether the first 7 years are subject to class 2 contributions?


You need to send off the NI38. You will be assessed based on the information you provide


----------



## jasdpace@gmail.

Sure I will send off the NI38.........I was just wondering if anyone had been down that route before so that I'd have a better idea what to expect!!


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

jasdpace@gmail. said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had been down that route before


My personal experience was that HMRC were very liberal in applying their own rules. 

You could attach a cover note saying something like "on the basis of the facts presented I believe I am entitled to make Class 2 contributions for the years in question". I can't do you any harm. Good luck and let us know how you get on!


----------



## jfrank

joe sod said:


> I hear a company advertising on the radio about this topic of buying UK pension contributions.  From their advert the window to do this closes at the end of November this month


I've heard these rumours too but I have also been told heard informally that HMRC will still accept applications up to 5th April 2023, nothing in writing though! I have seen nothing about this November deadline??

Besides, even after 5th April 2023 you will still be able to pay for historic years missing from your NI record, it is just that it will be a narrower window, only 6 historic years (2017/18 onwards) rather than the current 16 (2006/07 - 2021/22) plus, once approved, you can continue to pay them up to your UK state retirement date.


----------



## jim

Yam1960 said:


> *Making one-off payment for Class 2 NICs*
> 
> I made a lump sum payment at the end of May for 16years Class 2 NICs. Just rang HMRC in UK, they have received the payment, but it has not been allocated to my account. The chap I spoke to, said he would send a note to an "International Caseworker" in HMRC, who would do the allocation, apparently this would normally be marked as a "priority". A letter confirming the allocation should be sent to me when this is done. He was unable to give a time line for likely completion.
> 
> Just posting this here, as it may be helpful for people to chase their case. I rang 0044 191 203 7010


@Yam1960 can i check if any update? Thanks.


----------



## Yam1960

Hi @jim
I went back to check timelines.
* Applied with letter and form 22 Feb 2022.
* Followed up on 3/5/22, was told it was a 10 week wait, i was approaching that. They confirmed that had received my application.
* 20th May received letter with the decision to award me 16 years Class 2. The letter was dated 6th May, so they had completed a few days after my call.
* Paid lump sum by bank transfer - I have a sterling acct, on 30th May.
* Followed up on 8/9/22. Confirmed they had received money, but yet to be allocated to my acct. Was told by agent, they would transfer a service request to an International Caseworker in HMRC, should be High Priority, to be allocated. Unable to confirm service level i.e. when it will be done by.
* Allocation letter dated 4th October 2022, received mid Oct, I didn't note the date.

Hope that's helpful.


----------



## jim

Extremely helpful, thank you @Yam1960


----------



## JimmyB99

Just wondering, for a married person, what happens upon:

1. Death of contributor pre-retirement

2. Death in retirement



Also, as I'm just doing this now, can I just summarise the process please?

A. I send form CF83 to PT Operations North East England HM Revenue and Customs BX9 1AN United Kingdom. I include a cover letter and explain the years I've worked in Ireland. Do I need to provide evidence that I was employed?

B. I wait and hope that they can back to me in time for me to pay the backdated contributions by the April 2023 deadline.

I guess my question is whether there is anything I can do to help my application. Is there, for example, any benefit in ringing them at this stage? Also, is it worth sending my letter/application by recorded delivery?

Thanks.....


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

JimmyB99 said:


> Just wondering, for a married person, what happens upon:
> 
> 1. Death of contributor pre-retirement
> 
> 2. Death in retirement



As far as I can tell the UK New State Pension provides no benefits to spouse if you predecease your spouse, either before or after reaching retirement age.

I asked a similar question here and several posters confirmed it.




JimmyB99 said:


> Also, as I'm just doing this now, can I just summarise the process please?
> 
> A. I send form CF83 to PT Operations North East England HM Revenue and Customs BX9 1AN United Kingdom. I include a cover letter and explain the years I've worked in Ireland. Do I need to provide evidence that I was employed?
> 
> B. I wait and hope that they can back to me in time for me to pay the backdated contributions by the April 2023 deadline.
> 
> I guess my question is whether there is anything I can do to help my application. Is there, for example, any benefit in ringing them at this stage? Also, is it worth sending my letter/application by recorded delivery?



They are slow to respond, posters mention 1-3 month delays. Once you get the request in before April 2023 I highly doubt they will be able to prevent you making the voluntary NICs. I think a good idea to keep a record of all your correspondence with them in case it gets lost.


----------



## JimmyB99

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> As far as I can tell the UK New State Pension provides no benefits to spouse if you predecease your spouse, either before or after reaching retirement age.
> 
> I asked a similar question here and several posters confirmed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are slow to respond, posters mention 1-3 month delays. Once you get the request in before April 2023 I highly doubt they will be able to prevent you making the voluntary NICs. I think a good idea to keep a record of all your correspondence with them in case it gets lost.




This Askaboutmoney is a brilliant resource. Thanks very, very much......I just don't wany any regrets, NoRegrets!

I pretty sure you are right about the spouse's pension. I was just trying to do a simple spreadsheet for myself and the missus - along the lines of here's our income whilst we're both above the ground and here's what happens if (perhaps even when!) one of us goes. My wife has zero interest in the minutiae. 

I read through this whole thread last night..........those months in the UK were pretty rewarding for you! Fair play to ya.

I don't mean to sound cheesy, but I get the impression you really know your way around financial stuff so I like to get your opinion on some specifics please (yes/no/whatever answers is all I'd expect!)

1. Should I send my letter by recorded delivery?
2. Should I send evidence of where I worked in specific years?
3. Years ago, I got a letter showing how many years I've clocked up in the UK, should I include this?
4. Is there any point in ringing them in a week's time to confirm receipt of letter?

Thanks again.......much appreciated


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

JimmyB99 said:


> 1. Should I send my letter by recorded delivery? *I would.*
> 2. Should I send evidence of where I worked in specific years?* It's a bit ambigous on the form. I would state when employment outside the UK started and who your current employer is (they may not be the same).*
> 3. Years ago, I got a letter showing how many years I've clocked up in the UK, should I include this? *I doubt it as your NI record will be available already.*
> 4. Is there any point in ringing them in a week's time to confirm receipt of letter? *I only ever send them letters, not sure a call will help much they will just say you are at the back of the Q.*





JimmyB99 said:


> I pretty sure you are right about the spouse's pension. I was just trying to do a simple spreadsheet for myself and the missus - along the lines of here's our income whilst we're both above the ground and here's what happens if (perhaps even when!) one of us goes. My wife has zero interest in the minutiae.



I did the same myself and for a male who lives to 85 Class 3 voluntary contributions provide an inflation-adjusted, guaranteed annual return of 6%. There is no better guaranteed investment out there. In pure cash terms you get all your contributions back if you live to 70. For Class 2 NICS it's even better.

All the best!


----------



## Yam1960

I sent my husband's form and letter early November and used Track and Trace. The post system in UK is up the swanny these days with all the Royal Mail issues. Even with TnT it took a week. I may ring in a week, just to check it's in the system.


----------



## euroDilbert

Just to add that I notice that most (all ?) of my pension-related letters were sent from outside the UK (Amsterdam, I think). This meant that a letter typically arrived 2-3 weeks after the date on the letter itself. Unfortunately, none of the pension services seem to use email, or have an online service available (for non-UK residents).


----------



## JimmyB99

Thanks NoRegrets,

I can't give you a "like" but maybe that's because I new here?

I intend to follow your good counsel to the T! My primary task today is to get my letter off to His Majesty's government.

Unlike the missus, I tend to get into the weeds with stuff like this. So I have a question or two about the calculation basis for the UK state pension. There is absolutely no urgency with this......I just thought I'd put it out there whilst still fresh in the noggin.

In this thread, there was mention of an advisor who specialises in this stuff. On his website, https://www.uspfinancial.ie/uk-state-pension/ , he sets out his understanding of the "starting amount" and the "state pension amount". I don't agree his calcs........just wondering what you think?

Also, it may not have affected you, so possibly not on your radar but I was contracted out of SERPS via an occupational pension scheme in the 1990s. Do you know how this affects the state pension calculation (late last night, I looked at the Which explanation referred to earlier in the thread, and also wasn't convinced - admittedly, I was a bit foggy at the time so perhaps I had mis-read it).


******************

Hi Yam,

I was completely oblivious of the Royal Mail strike. Thanks for the heads up. Google tells me that it's a full-blown dispute right now. I think it best that I courier my letter. It looks like the address to courier letters is a different one - in Newcastle Upon Tyne.


******************

Thanks euroDilbert,

Yep - it would be a lot easier if email was an option.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

@Jimmy99 - no expertise myself on any of those, maybe someone else can help.

Let us know when you hear back from HMRC. It's good to give an update on turnaround times.


----------



## euroDilbert

JimmyB99 said:


> Also, it may not have affected you, so possibly not on your radar but I was contracted out of SERPS via an occupational pension scheme in the 1990s. Do you know how this affects the state pension calculation (late last night, I looked at the Which explanation referred to earlier in the thread, and also wasn't convinced - admittedly, I was a bit foggy at the time so perhaps I had mis-read it).


I was also contracted out of SERPS for a few years. My understanding is that you lose out on State Pension benefits for those years, on the assumption that your occupational pension will make up for it (which may or may not be the case). You may have enough non contracted-out years so this may make no or little difference. Your State Pension Forecast will state what you are missing out (on the back of the page - called the COPE amount).


----------



## JimmyB99

Thanks euroDilbert,

I don't think it's quite as simple as that but am not sufficiently confident - even after spending many hours yesterday trying to figure it out - to propose an actual basis for these calcs. I find it very, very muddy!


----------



## jim

i revoluted my annual vol contribution in may/june. still dont see it applied online.

i sent them an email about it last week, havent heard back.


----------



## JimmyB99

Hi Jim,

How can you see stuff on-line? How can you register for this? Do you need UK ID/address to do this?

Also, I wasn't aware that email was an option?


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

JimmyB99 said:


> How can you see stuff on-line? How can you register for this? Do you need UK ID/address to do this?


You need a UK address to register online. I don't have one anymore.

I just write them letters and they usually get back to me in 2-3 months.


----------



## MoneyLar

After hitting you UK contribution years (say 35 years) and before you start drawing the pension do you need to continue paying NI contrbutions until you can access it?

For me, I'm 36, have 3 years and hope to be able to pay another 10 years of class 2's - still waiting on an answer despite sending in my application late July. Thus to get to the 35 years I would need a further 24 years NI contributions which would bring me to age 60. Assuming that the state pension age is 67 when I get there (ha!!) do I need to keep paying NI from age 60-67?


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote

MoneyLar said:


> After hitting you UK contribution years (say 35 years) and before you start drawing the pension do you need to continue paying NI contrbutions until you can access it?


No. Once you have 35 years you have 35 years.


It's a bizarrely generous system given that if you were actually working in the UK you'd still be paying NI after 35 years of contributions......


----------



## MoneyLar

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> No. Once you have 35 years you have 35 years.
> 
> 
> It's a bizarrely generous system given that if you were actually working in the UK you'd still be paying NI after 35 years of contributions......


Thanks and that is what made me question it - it's just really good all round!


----------



## Lisgoold

MoneyLar said:


> After hitting you UK contribution years (say 35 years) and before you start drawing the pension do you need to continue paying NI contrbutions until you can access it?
> 
> For me, I'm 36, have 3 years and hope to be able to pay another 10 years of class 2's - still waiting on an answer despite sending in my application late July. Thus to get to the 35 years I would need a further 24 years NI contributions which would bring me to age 60. Assuming that the state pension age is 67 when I get there (ha!!) do I need to keep paying NI from age 60-67?


I believe if you're currently 36, then your state pension age , UK, is already set at 68. It's possible, that could move out too.


----------



## MoneyLar

Lisgoold said:


> I believe if you're currently 36, then your state pension age , UK, is already set at 68. It's possible, that could move out too.


Oh I've no doubt it'll be beyond 70 by then - we're all living too long!


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