# Warning all "The PC/PROVISIONAL SUM"



## kkelliher

Just a warning to all of those who are contracting builders to carry out work. 

Please Please Please try and understand the PC SUM & PROVISIONAL SUM issues that exist in Contracts. I have already this week had 4 calls from people in trouble financially in respect to increased costs on projects as a resut of increased prices from tender as a result of increases in the PC SUM and PROVISIONAL SUM alllowances that the Contractor allowed.

A PC SUM is an allowance made by an Architect or a builder in the price for a specialist contractor or specialist supplier. In most cases a PC SUM is allowed for electrics, plumbing, heating, kitchens, Windows etc etc. It is allowed on a lump sum provisional basis and the Client is responsible for the actual end cost of the item plus 5% for the Main contractor

It is in the Contractors interest in the tender process to keep this figure as low as possible as it makes his overall figure lower even if it is well known that the provisional cost is insufficient. 

A Provisional Sum is similar but is for items that cannot be fully detailed or priced at the time of tender. Again the final price will be borne by the Client at the end of the day

It should be made aware to all Clients that these items need to be investigated in tenders and a like with like allowance should be made for all contractors in respect to these issues. A Clients representitive should always try and place a realistic value against these items in order to provent such movement throughout the currency of the Contract.

Sorry for the drawn out note but people should and need to be aware of the Contractual impact of PC and Provisional Sums


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## threebedsemi

KKelliher makes very valid points. I would suggest that an Architect who does not properly explain the purpose of these sums to a client is certainly remiss. However, from this architects point of view:
The purpose of PC Sums is to ensure that an amount is included in the contractors tender for items, the exact design of which the client has not decided upon at the time of tender. It is perfectly reasonable for an architect to include PC sums for a staircase, say, or a kitchen, or floor coverings as these things are unlikely to have been decided upon in their entirety are this stage of the project. Many people have trouble visualising what a stairs or kitchen should look like until their house is half built and they can get a feel for the rooms, light, etc.

This practice is perfectly acceptable IF the amounts included are realistic. If they are not realistic it means that either the Architect has not properly explained what kind of a kitchen will be available for the PC Sum of €10k, or that clients think they will be able to get a better deal at the time and simply ignore this sum.

However, PC sums covering an entire electrical or heating system installation should never be included in my opinion. Firstly, the cost of these is too big to be ‘guesstimated’ except by a very experienced Architect or a Quantity Surveyor.
Secondly, these are things that should have been pretty well trashed out and designed by tender stage. A tender package for a house without any drawings or specifications of an electrical layout, or a heating layout, is unlikely to be a complete tender package. 

This may be caused by the consultant not quoting a sufficient fee to allow time to preparing a complete tender package, or by the client being unwilling to pay a sufficient fee to the consultant to prepare a complete package.

Why on earth are people going to tender without having given any thought to their heating systems?

As for PC Sums provided by a builder in his quote, first of all, if a tender package is prepared by the Architect, the only PC sums which should appear in the builders price are those included by the Architect. The builder should price everything else exactly, because everything else should have been specified and/or drawn.
This also goes to aslers comment about a lack of detail in tender drawings. If you want it, it takes time and will cost money to prepare a complete tender package. 
If you are getting priced from a builder based on planning drawings (of which I still see some containing pointless and misleading ‘building specifications’), and without a competent consultant appointed for tender stage, well, you are asking the doggie to bite you. 

You can pay for things to be done properly or you can choose not to. If you choose not too, you dont really have anyone to blame. if you choose to, and you feel that the Architect has not provided an adequate service, you will be able to make a complaint to the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland (assuming that the architect is qualified to use the title and is a member of the RIAI)  


As for aslers comment that


_Architects are good a aesthetics but never the detail._


I hadn’t realised that they still sold tar brushes that wide! 

www.studioplustwo.com


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## lowCO2design

alser said:


> the architects just use the planning drawings with one or two details with a brief specification. No M&E details etc. Cant really compare "apples with apples" when comparing tender. As they say the devil is in the detail.
> 
> V good post form the guys above


I would like to know, on one off houses what % of clients actaully contract an arch to prepare a full set of tender drawings. my experience is that clients appreciate the cost of 'bricks & mortar' but struggle with the initial outlay for drawings & spec that is required for an accurate price. while often regretting it once their finished, this doesn't seem to stop the problem.. imo until there is proper building control, these issues will continue and the architect will be blamed


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## micheller

An alternate way of doing this is to have the builder price the build itself without any cosmetics as such, speced to full detail (sockets, electrics, plumbing systems). If you do this though you need to be very very clear about the list of items and detailed spec included.
You then source your own Kitchen, tiling, sanitary ware etc. and you have more control over your PC sum.


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## threebedsemi

Fair enough but just to clarify - the client has total control of how the PC Sums are used if the sums are included in an Architects tender package. 
They can choose to spend the full amount, spend more or less, or remove them completely from the builders works and carry it our directly.

www.studioplustwo.com


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## kkelliher

True in theory but my initial post related to the lack of knowledge given to clients about movements in these figures from the tender to funal account due to the inadequacy of detail on the item / contractor pricing below actual cost / or no actual idea of what requirement is resulting in large increases in the contract sum without their knowledge because they are pc sums and subject to actual cost. At final account stage the client has no options to change, ommit or alter any item


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## D.Tanner

A trained architect is most certainly interested in detail. Their training is all about detail. A trained formally qualified architect also knows all about PC sums.


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## serotoninsid

This "PC sum" business really jerks my chain.  When buying my own house (off the plans during the bubble), as a first time buyer with no previous experience, this was presented as an allowance - in this instance for tiling -and the suggestion in the way it was presented was that it would cover same.  As it turned out, it wouldn't even cover 50% of it.  I really think it was disingenuous, that there should be some legal obligation to spell out in no uncertain terms the 'realities of the term 'pc sum'.  i.e. It's just a provisional amount that is set aside for a specific item - but that it may not cover the cost of said item.

For those who already know - of course, this is no issue - but in my own experience, I was a first time buyer and had never had cause to come across this term before.  Were it explained properly, there would not have been an issue.  I would have been able to allow for it - price it up separately myself and determine how realistic (or otherwise..) the pc sum was.


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