# Wife secretly giving money to in-laws



## Neo

Age:* 34*
Spouse’s/Partner's age: *32*
Self monthly net income from employment – *5,000 after tax* 
Spouse monthly net income – *nil – Stay at home mother*
Type of employment: *private sector, permanent.*

In general are you: (a) spending more than you earn, or (b) saving? *Spending*
*Rent 1,200pm, Childcare 200pm, Food & Utilities 1,200pm, Supporting parents 1,200pm*
Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc - *None*
Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? *Yes*
Savings and investments: *10,000 in joint account*
Do you have a pension scheme? *I do, through work*
Do you own any investment or other property? *No*
Ages of children:*4*
Life insurance: *No*

*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*
Before we married my spouse was looking after her mother (currently aged 50) and brother (currently aged 20) and I was looking after my parents (aged 66 and 76). I did not enquire how much she gave them as it was none of my business (bad mistake 1).

When we married, we were both working. We contributed our salary to a joint account, gave each other a monthly no-questions-asked allowance of 200 each per week (it was the boom –(bad mistake 2)) We agreed from the joint account to give her parents 600pm and my parents 600pm. Unknown to me, from her no-questions-asked-allowance she was giving her parents an extra 400pm

When we had our son, we worked out that with day care costs etc, (our parents are not in Dublin) it would be better if wife should stay at home. That worked fine for a year until mother-in-law came for a visit and saw my payslip. She was “shocked that we were only helping with 600 when I earned 5,000 and we had heaps in the bank. Don’t I know it is a recession and we should all pull together to get through”

So over the past few months she has been putting pressure on wife to help more. 100 for this 100 for that. Everything seems life-threatening and an emergency. After it reached 1,500 pm. I put my foot down and said no more. It is going back to 600 pm.

They now hate me.

The last few months, we have been dipping into our savings. I couldn’t figure out why until I discovered deposits slips. My wife is still sending them money! I don’t know what to do. I need to resolve this. I could

1) Pretend I did not notice. There is more to life than money.
2) Be more understanding, that they were on 1,000pm before we had a child
3) Confront my wife and put in steps to stop it. I don’t know what steps. (An allowance and expenses log book??)
4) Confront my mother-in-law and basically destroy any hope of any further relationship. Demand that mother-in-law keep an expenses log book?
5) Divorce. If I stay married I will be broke
I really can’t sleep at night. At this rate our savings will be gone by mid next year. We don’t even have a deposit for a house.
Any advice will be appreciated


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## Bronte

Why does your wife's mother need money?  Does she not have her own income.  What about the 20 year old, does he not have a job or he in education?  Is his mother not responsible for him apart from the fact that he is an adult?


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## mercman

Either put your foot down now or live to regret the consequences. This is lunacy to a new extreme. Simply take your own savings and your wages and lodge them in a different Bank with only you as signatory. Put you missus on a budget which she will have to keep to. You married your wife - not your in laws.


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## truthseeker

Agree with mercman above, as sole earner put money into an account only you can access. Work out an amount to cover mortgage, bills, household expenses and out of whats left give your wife an allowance. Give a set amount to parents/inlaws if you wish. Dont deviate from the amounts agreed and set.
Dont worry about your MIL hating you - its not her youre married to.

What income has the MIL? She must be in receipt of something? If she is only 50 why cant she get a part time job?


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## spursman

this is the weirdest topic ever.

1. why do ye have to give any money to anyone? its as simple as that, you earn about 100k a year, but you only have one salary so you need that money to have a family etc

2. you need to confront your wife, if she wont listen or accept anything then you need to decide if you want to remain married


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## jhegarty

I think the threat of a 0 euro a month allowance might buck up the MIL idea's.

She is 50 , why isn't she working ?


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## onq

I think this is dreadful and you have my sympathies for being in this position.

You need to help your wife find her feet as an adult and say no to her parents.
The demanding nature of your mother in law must be stopped flat.

Financial obligations to older people are never an easy call, but you have to look to the future and provide for your family now and your retirement later.
There seems to be an older generation quite capable of living beyond their own means and sucking everyone else dry with hand outs.
What position will you be in when you're retiring because money you should have put into savings or a pension fund went to them?

All extra-marital payments should be stopped immediately for six months to let you get back on your feet and everyone else needs to cut their cloth to suit their measure.
Take control of the finances and make sure your wife will support you through this and prevent unannounced calls from the M.I.L.-itary wing of her family.

Supporting a 20-year old brother in law?
Unless he's studying to better himself AND committed to paying you back in time - what are you at?

You have your family to support, you are doing well and fair play to you, but all the little cuts allow significant financial bleeding.
You didn't marry your mother in law or your brother in law - you married your wife and you are committed to her and your son.
These are the responsibilities you took on when you married your good lady wife, not supporting her extended family.
Or yours for that matter and this is an important point to remember.

I'm sure these are all nice people but on the face of it there appears to be a "whats mine is mine and what's yours is mine" attitude here.
By all means support your in-laws to a degree - given the precedent on both sides - but you as sole breadwinner have to balance the books and set the amounts.
I'll be surprised if your wife doesn't need a LOT OF HELP seeing it this way, but you must grasp that nettle firmly if tenderly and deal with it.
Her mother may be manipulating her more than you know and you have to as I said beforem help your wife to deal with this.
Do not create some sort of "opposite pole" scene where she is torn between you and her mother.
Make it clear that you are annoyed about the amount that's been leaving your household.

And be extremely even handed, no special amounts for your folks either, otherwise you will end up undermining your marraige.

This isn't a chauvinistic thing, BTW, you need to review your level of support to your folks as well - why do they need all this money?
Cut them all off, explain you're saving for a deposit for your house and that's it.
After that you'll be paying the mortgage, so no going back.

The good times for the in-laws are over.
Good luck with it.

ONQ.


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## Romulan

MIL came for a visit and "saw your payslip"?

Either she went snooping or your wife showed it to her.

If banning your MIL from your house is not an option, I suggest a lockable filing cabinet for your personal papers.


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## sadie

Why are you giving your own parents 600 a month? Do they not have pensions? Are you still giving your parents 600 a month. 
Can both sets of parents not sell their houses and rent if they have debts? Or are they council tenants?


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## Billo

Is this a wind up ? Nobody could be so gullible with their money.. surely


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## missdaisy

You need to sit down with your wife and look at the annual figure you are giving both your parents and her parents - I think the annual figure will make her see the reality of the situation a bit more easily. i don't think you should redirect your salary until you have had this discussion but equally I absolutely don't think you should be pyaing an income to two sets of parents out of your one household income.


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## mercman

Tough if they hate you. So pay for thier friendship ?? Just stop allowing your wife taking the money from the account. And if this means moving Bank just do it.


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## irishmoss

I agree with Mercman but also feel that your inlaws have no respect for you and I would be outraged if they looked at my payslip.
I'm sorry but they have crossed a line here and you need to stop it.


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## paddyodoors

Utter Madness, "you all need to pull together to get through". You are at the early stages of your life, no house yet, which will be your greatest ever expense and should be saving towards this if you want to own one.

Absolutely agree with the other posters, your MIL is not your responsibility and providing any support is admirable - in my opinion even €600 per month is a huge amount. Would need to know why the support is needed as others have mentioned. Same for your own parents, Support payment totalling min €1200 per month - Does the MIL know you are helping out both sides?

FYI My own father recenty had a botched hip replacement operation and at 62 has been incapacitated - this has left my parents 3 years short of expected income to retirement and their pensions worthless as had not changed to low risk options soon enough. Which means they suddenly find themselves without sufficient funds to live. As yet I have not got involved (our combined income would be around 150k), even if I do, I dont see me stretching to €600 and besides they wouldn't dream of pressuring me for any help, I have my own outgoings...

A point to note is that your wife may not be aware of the implications that these payments mean you are spending beyond your means - as you will see from these forums, finance is not a subject everyone grasps.

As mentioned above, filter your salary into your sole account and transfer only enough to the joint to cover mortgage and household bills. Advise your wife that you need to take control of the finances before you all end of on the street, you have a young child and your future (hopefully) together to think about. 

Contuinue by all means an affordable amount to both parents - which I would keep equitable - this should help the MIL appreciate the amount 

Looking at the bright side, once you do sort it out - you wont be welcome I assume at the mother in laws house - wish I had that problem! 

Paddy


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## dereko1969

Point out to your wife the gross value of the money you're paying over to the in-laws this will show how ludicrous the situation is. 1500pm is actually the guts of 3k gross!


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## Towger

I suppose we really need more details, this would have been common in Ireland in the past and still is on other cultures which don't have a welfare state/system.

For example the two of then could be getting approx 22,000  from the state + 18,000 from you. That is 40,000 Tax Free per year!

 BTW is it still possible to use a Deed of Covenant to give money tax free?


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## MOB

A few questions for OP:

1.  How many children in your wife's family?

2.  How many children in yours?

3.  Do your parents need your financial support or is it just that you were raised that way and it is expected of you ( and that you are glad to give it)?

4.  Does mother in law need financial support?  What are her means?

I would be wary of cutting your wife off from access to your earnings and giving her an allowance.  Previously, you both worked.  You have now agreed that she would stay home.  So if you now take control of 'your' earnings, it may feel a bit dictatorial from your wife's perspective.

Perhaps you can achieve the same result by different means.  Maybe you could set up a standing order out of your wages into some sort of savings plan, which cannot easily be unlocked\liquidated?   

If the money is already gone to the savings plan, it is not there to be given to the in-laws.

Unless your in-laws are people of very modest means and with no real concept of money, it is difficult to understand how your mother in law could in good faith hold the views which she has expressed.   She is being wholly unreasonable- but good old fashioned repression and avoidance is not to be ignored as a solution here:   you don't always have to prove you are right; just conserve your finances by the least-conflict route available.

EDIT: Reading Paddyodoors post, and on reflection, there are undoubtedly some marriages where both spouses are happy for one or other of them to assume control of finances.  IF your wife is happy to let you take control ( and she may secretly want this, if only to relieve her of pressure from her mother) then by all means do so.  But tread carefully.


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## Neo

Thanks very much for all the feed back. I will go with the majority rule, and open another account with only me as a signature.

To give insight into why we started supporting the old folks - My parents have been retired for the past 10 years. Pensions aren’t that great. It covers just the basics. I thought it is bad that we live as middle class and the old folks live as lower class. Beers in the pub didn’t taste so good when I knew they were scrimping. I thought only a fool parties while his relatives suffer. 600 per month is not a lot. It is only €75 per week each. My parents are grateful. They use it for car repairs, the occasional night out .... basically the middle class life style.

Wife’s mother, on the other hand, took a voluntary retrenchment in 2003 and blew the cash living an upper class lifestyle. Now the cash has run out and there are no jobs. Same with the 20 year old brother. He saw no need to work hard in school. Failed his leaving cert *twice. *Now he can’t find a job.

Last weekend we had another argument when I told my wife to tell her mother if she needs cash, she should sell the family silver. Lots of “Cash for Gold” adverts on telly. 

I don’t like how money (or spending thereof) has changed me. I am now too judgemental. In the past, I wouldn’t care who did what. Now I am paranoid…. “What!!! You had steak for dinner!!! I am working too hard for you to have steak. What’s wrong with chicken!!!”. ….. So sad

I will open the new account give an update on how things develop

Thanks again for the feedback. I really appreciate it.


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## jhegarty

Neo said:


> I don’t like how money (or spending thereof) has changed me. I am now too judgemental. In the past, I wouldn’t care who did what. Now I am paranoid…. “What!!! You had steak for dinner!!! I am working too hard for you to have steak. What’s wrong with chicken!!!”. ….. So sad



You sound like a very generous person to me , it's not you that has been changed.


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## pinkyBear

Hi there,
I understand your plight - my FIL and step MIL blew a fortune and have run out of money. Now we are not in a place where we can help them out with our own expences. Mr. Bear is generous in that he takes his dad places and buys him dinners out and things like that..

My step MIL would makes jokes about how much money we had despite the fact that I was working 3 jobs while trying to save for a house!!!

This will be a bone of contention but your wife must understand that your mum must take responcibility for her own finances and deal with the fact that she has no money..

You both sound really lovely people, but dont let yourself be taken advantage of...


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## Towger

As per my previous post, it maybe worth while in researching/setting up a Deed of Covenant.


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## niceoneted

Are your parents getting all the free things they should be as one is over 70. Free TV license, credit on ESB/Gas, No land line fees to pay, free travel, medical card for the older one. My parents are both in their 70's and on old age pension, they live very well on it, can take several hols a year, enjoy their dinners and lunches out etc etc, They are careful with what they spend on and save every week. There out goings are not excessive.


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## annR

You'll have to come to an agreement with your wife about how you manage the joint finances, don't put her in a position where she has an allowance from you.   You need to keep your wife onside here, don't make an enemy out of her.    Come to an agreement with her about what you should be giving both sets of parents, and stick to it.  
Set up a standing order or similar which cannot be tampered with and go from there.  Other expenses should be budgeted for, and your own savings should also go somewhere and be tamper proof or withdrawn only on something ye both agree on.
Obviously to stick with this the situation with the inlaws will have to be resolved.  You and your wife need to present a joint front.  Then decide on something for your MIL, stick to it.  It should be no more than what your own folks are getting.

If they have a problem with that they should justify why they should get more.  They sound like a bunch of spongers to me and only being encouraged by being shown your payslip - who showed her your payslip by the way?  If it was your wife, I think another part of your agreement should be that your finances are private.
This is all normal stuff not rocket science - your money is yours and anything else is a special arrangement where the boundaries and rules must be well understood.  When people think they have special rights to your money who's to say where it ends - they will just keep expecting more.


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## Bronte

Don't rush into doing anything, you should discuss what you are going to do with your wife first to see if she is in agreement.  At the end of the day you are married and a partnership.  Think about it from her point of view also.  You must both sort it out together in as fair a manner as possible.  

In relation to incomes could you please clarify the incomes of all the people, it would be interesting to show how much you and your wife have as versus your parents and versus her family to really see who is living on what.  

That said I've never met anyone on AAM as generous as yourself, I could not be so selfless.


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## Padraigb

I don't think this is a money management question: it's a relationship one. 

There is a clear need for Neo and Mrs. Neo to have a major discussion about their situation. Not a row, a discussion.

[As I was composing this post, I see Bronte posted something along the same lines -- well, not divergent lines.]


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## Phibbleberry

Neo, a few things strike me here...

You are beating yourself up absolutely needlessly here, the bottom line is, we are chest deep in recession and you are being made to feel guilty that you are unable (not unwilling, your past behaviour shows this) to sustain their champagne lifestyle any longer. The fact that you have been until now, is to me, astonishing, but that is beside the point.

At 34 and 32 years of age and as parents, you are responsible for ensuring your own financial stability (as were both sets of parents, don't take a leaf out of their book - particularly your in-laws!)
You are on a good wage and your wife worked until recently, though you are not homeowners, but would obviously like to be, as per your comments in the first post.

I assume I would be correct in thinking that the reason you are not homeowners is as a direct result of not having the income to support a mortage_ because of_ your generosity?

The amount you supplement both sets of parents is akin to a (in the current climate) substantial mortgage. Unless you are expecting a windfall or massive pay increase in the coming years, this is not going to change. 
What happens when you DO get a mortgage? They're going to have to do without then...
You are not getting any younger (I mean that in the nicest possible way!) - the longer you leave it, the shorter the term you will be elligible for, which in turn means higher monthly repayments. 

My (humble) advise would be explain to them that you need to look at buying a _*home for their grandchild,* _particularly given the current value on the property market and they are just going to have to do without your financial assistance (crutch) until you have set yourself up. Tell them that when you are on your feet, you will give them what you can afford after you have evaluated your own expenses, that you won't see them on the streets (but for GODSSAKE, don't let them move in with you!)

In the meantime, if you feel you absolutely must help out, as others have suggested, set aside a certain amount each month (but not so as to restrict your own needs and that of your familys') and with it, purchase a gift card one month for €200 for their local supermarket and €50 the following month deposited directly into their ESB account. This way, they'll neither starve nor go cold, which is about all you're managing not to do in the current situation.
That way, you're contributing €125pm to each set of parent (which, is 250pm less to spend on your own needs) - theres no preference to either set (though your parents seem to be in more 'worthy' situation) yet you're dictating what YOUR wages go towards.

You have to remember, they are not old, this ain't gonna sort itself out in five years time - this has the potential (particularly in your MIL's case) of been drawn out for DECADES to come. And, you'll probably end up footing the bill for their nursing home expenses due to their friviolous money management. I am of course refering to your in-laws, rather than your own parents, who seem to have been unfortunate in their situation.

Surely the 20year old gets 200odd quid a mth? Is he contributing a similar percentage to the upkeep of the home? 

I appreciate you don't want to upset your wife, but she has to realise your subsidising her parents lavish lifestyle is impacting on _her_ marraige. Its hard to break the apron strings, but if she can see how its affecting you and see you're willing to contribute something, more, when/if the situation allows (though good luck with that when you've a mortgage!), she can't but show her parents you're doing the very best ye can without being on the breadline yourselves!

*Sorry if I seem a little harsh, but you really need to take control of the situation or you're little boy will be in this exact situation thirty years down the line- you'll have spent all your money, his inheritence, on his grandparents!!!*


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## truthseeker

Neo said:


> Thanks very much for all the feed back. I will go with the majority rule, and open another account with only me as a signature.


 
This is a good idea, but from a relationship point of view you need to be totally open with your wife about how you are managing this - and why.



Neo said:


> To give insight into why we started supporting the old folks - My parents have been retired for the past 10 years. Pensions aren’t that great. It covers just the basics. I thought it is bad that we live as middle class and the old folks live as lower class. Beers in the pub didn’t taste so good when I knew they were scrimping. I thought only a fool parties while his relatives suffer. 600 per month is not a lot. It is only €75 per week each. My parents are grateful. They use it for car repairs, the occasional night out .... basically the middle class life style.


 
While I commend your generous nature I would question what exactly your parents are doing that requires an extra 600 a month each. Surely with all the benefits in terms of reduced bills etc available these days, plus pension that is enough for them to live comfortably on? While taking 600 a month from you and seeing that you are not a homeowner did they not think that you need to be securing your own future?



Neo said:


> Wife’s mother, on the other hand, took a voluntary retrenchment in 2003 and blew the cash living an upper class lifestyle. Now the cash has run out and there are no jobs. Same with the 20 year old brother. He saw no need to work hard in school. Failed his leaving cert *twice. *Now he can’t find a job.


 
There are jobs, but they are minimum wage jobs. I dont think you can be made responsible for your MILs frivolous lifestyle - and as for the 20 year old, thats just encouraging a lazy waster into a lazy waster lifestyle. Whats he gonna end up doing? He needs to stand on his own two feet and stop expecting someone else to pay for his ride through life.



Neo said:


> Last weekend we had another argument when I told my wife to tell her mother if she needs cash, she should sell the family silver. Lots of “Cash for Gold” adverts on telly.


 
Thats exactly what she should be doing. And she should also be cutting back on her lifestyle if she cant afford it.



Neo said:


> I don’t like how money (or spending thereof) has changed me. I am now too judgemental. In the past, I wouldn’t care who did what. Now I am paranoid…. “What!!! You had steak for dinner!!! I am working too hard for you to have steak. What’s wrong with chicken!!!”. ….. So sad


 
I cant believe you were allowing them steak to begin with!!!

If you wish to give your parents and in laws money each month do so. But dont forget that you yourself have a child and a future to secure and money is not there to be used to fund other peoples lifestyles. Itd be different if you were paying for medicine or something, but its just about a nice lifestyle!!!


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## 180girl

take action instead of giving out - (your wife did just that). Simple:
your wife isn't working. So you stop putting money into any account she has access to. Start putting a seperate savings account together without her. Run your house money like a business and give her an allowance. She will soon decide how much of HER money she will freely give away.
You might be ignored for a while - but it's not harm to get some respect and balance back.


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## WaterSprite

Neo said:


> When we married, we were both working. We contributed our salary to a joint account, gave each other a monthly no-questions-asked allowance of 200 each per week (it was the boom –(bad mistake 2)) We agreed from the joint account to give her parents 600pm and my parents 600pm. Unknown to me, from her no-questions-asked-allowance she was giving her parents an extra 400pm



I'd agree with the posters who suggest that you need to come to an agreement with your wife.  I do not believe that holding the purse strings and giving your wife an allowance is the way to go. 

 I see above that the extra money you allocated yourselves was "no questions asked" - she could do whatever she wanted with that extra money, as you agreed, so giving out about it now is going to be counter-productive.  I presume that this discretionary allowance (for both of you) is now back in the family pot, which is logical and fair.  

The only thing that has changed is that money is now tighter because you want to save and you have to reel back in that extra money per month that was formerly discretionary.

As other posters have said, sit down with your wife and work out a fair schedule of payments to the parents (if you want to continue funding either or both sets) & put money aside for family savings that can't be touched (perhaps requiring both signatures?) Start from the top, taking into account your own financial obligations and savings requirements, then see what's left and work from there.

Make sure that all parents/siblings are getting all the required state & pension allowances & entitlements & I also recommend looking into a Deed of Covenant, which could save you tax.

Once & if you decide to donate money to either set of parents, I don't think you should make any comment about how they spend it.


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## kopq

I can't quite get over this thread to be quite honest. OP, you're a very very decent man to be giving so much money to your parents and in-laws. Don't even think about beating yourself up over your changed attitude to money or anything like that. You work hard for your money and you're extremely generous with it. 

Unfortunately there are people out there who mistake generosity for being a mug. Your MIL and BIL sound like complete and utter scroungers and there's no reason whatsoever for you to support them. They're both well able to work. You have your own family to support and in my view I don't see why they should be given anything. Good luck working this out with your wife.


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## missdaisy

As previously said I would sit down with your wife on this issue. Just looking at the posts since and your response that you willopen another account with you only as signatory I do not agree with this. You and your wife have operated a system where you both have access to a joint account. You are the only income earner but they are family monies and you both have to decide how they are used.

If you stop a joint account without speaking to your wife about this issue you are going to bring trouble on yourself. 

You have decided as a married couple that you will work, your wife will stay at home and mind the children. That is the family decision - it does not mean that you alone should control the purse strings.

I would recommend that you to talk to your wife and not take unilateral action.


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## Rois

You also need to consider what would happen if you were to lose your job in the near future.  How long could you survive on your savings?  Would your in-laws supplement your income if the worst should happen?


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## el88s

if you divorce you'll be broke anyway,believe me!! Its cheaper to stay together. Even if she's not working,she's still contributing by staying at home and looking after your child. seems like the mother is bullying her or making her feel guilty about not contributing. i dont actually know if this story is true,it doesnt make sense....if it is communicating with your wife is the only way forward whatever the outcome.


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## chlipps

Do not have a secret account from your wife as this will come back to haunt you. My advice

1) Speak to your wife immediately and both you and wife need to stop support to both sides of the family. Your parents will survive no problem on the state pension (my parents are similar age and survive no problem...are probably even saving... and i would not class their life as lower class). It will be a problem for your MIL but at 50 she and the BIL should have no problem getting work even if it is minimum wage

2) Start a regular saver account with the 1200 per month that you currently give parents into it and use it to save for a deposit on a house....Set it up so that both signatures have to be on it to make withdrawal

3) Revise the setting on your current saving account for both signatures before money can be withdrawn

4) Get every account up on-line and monitor daily for the next few months

I think it is mad that you and your wife are supporting the in-laws on both sides... I would do everything for my parents and in-laws but I would not have them walking all over me. 

BTW... does your MIL and BIL get social welfare?


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## spursman

1 - no more money whatsoever to your bro in law. he is a lazy waster,not a panny more
2 - not more to you MIL either, she obviously needs to do some re-adjusting

your own parents are a different matter as they dont waste the money but lets be honest here is 410 euro a week (two pensions) not enough for two old people to live on that have no mortgage and most services are free.

come on now,  my mother is 62 yrs old and has thousdands put away,plus she still works as a physic nurse. stop giving away your life to everyone.


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## ACA

Sounds like some firm talking is needed here. Get everyone together for a family dinner (at home obviously!!) and explain to both sets of parents and the waster brother that everythings Bob Dylan from now on!!


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## BoscoTalking

you seem not to mention your hopes and dreams for your 4 children? do you expect them or want them to do the same as you do for you in the future? if the worst happens and they cannot access third level for financial reasons will mil pull together that way.

You should have them and your wife at the center of your worries. 

Your wife does not "fear" you more than her own mother, so next time you meet MIL i would say it out straight that you will not be giving her any more money to squander when you have college fees etc etc to save for. I would for your wifes sake tell her it was your decision as financial dictator. The payslip? sorry but i have to say i would be freaking but then i do put mine in a file for my eyes only so if you don't do this then start it now!!

Ironically my parents are the exact opposite - i cannot mention saving to pay a bill or buy something but they are hiding a few bob in my bag or posting me a card with €€ to spend on my son and not worry about it being practical. its the way i thought money should flow? its probably just as bad.


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## csirl

Sounds like the MIL has some money problems and is slowly bringing you down with her. People like her will just get worse and worse and she will find other ways of extracting money from your wife unless the problem is addressed. You'll end up bankrupt if you dont cut her off or get her help.

As for the 20year old. Why isnt he signing on? Why isnt he applying to do a FAS course? Why isnt he trying to get a job? Long term, cutting off his support would be the best thing for him as it will force him to confront reality. If he continues the way he is, within a few years he'll be unemployable.


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## BoscoTalking

spursman said:


> but lets be honest here is 410 euro a week (two pensions) not enough for two old people to live on that have no mortgage and most services are free.


if it is a state pension then most services may not be free for them at all.


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## Noor77

I find this thread so hard to believe. Not that I don't believe the poster.... I just didn't realise that this type of thing went on. I understand how he feels obliged to help out his own parents .... but his MIL is hardly that old. Why can't she get some kind of work - even part time? Both my parents work, and they are 58 .... with no intention of retiring any time soon!

What the Poster earns should be of no concern to his MIL. 

It's very sad that he is thinking about divorce. Is it that he is so disillusioned with his wife that he no longer loves her? 

It's a tough situation


----------



## annR

I don't think he mentioned divorce, I don't know where that came from.  Neo, ask your MIL that you hope she has put away enough for her nursing home fees or will you have to pay that too in the future?  Time to start thinking about your kids and your responsibility towards them and their future eduction etc.


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## Deiseblue

Your mother in law may very well be liable for Gift Tax on the payments made to her if the threshold is exceeded !
I hate to burden you further but you may very well have a secondary liability !
Check www.revenue.ie


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## paddyodoors

annR said:


> I don't think he mentioned divorce, I don't know where that came from. Neo, ask your MIL that you hope she has put away enough for her nursing home fees or will you have to pay that too in the future? Time to start thinking about your kids and your responsibility towards them and their future eduction etc.


 
Read the original post - option number 5


----------



## onq

Whatever you do, include your wife in thedecision making process.

Simply opening an account in your name and note telling her will drive her towards her mother.

I know a mother in law like that and I know it took a year and a half of arguments before the wife understood the husband's position, and she still didn't like it.

Another six months on and she's wondering what was she thinking originally.

You have to bring your wife with you on this or risk losing her, and you have to be even handed to both sets of parents even though you are the sole breadwinner.

And when you have won your point and stabilised the finances, you should keep a log book of just how many ingenious ways your MIL will try to make your life miserable.

She will eventually cop on, but she's not in a happy place with no major income and her best years passing by.

Get her to take up ballroom dancing or something - anything to curb her spendthrift ways and engage her with people her own age.

She's ranging herself against you guys, you know?

Completely unreasonably, she feels she should be enjoying your success.

Some people are just like that.

FWIW

ONQ.


----------



## boskonay

I'm sure your MIL / her son could flip burgers or work in a newsagents...


----------



## bren1916

Seems to me like your wife is the crux of the problem and by extension - her relationship with her mother.

1. She sees nothing wrong in 'giving' her family up to €1000/month of your wages.
2. She prefers to hide this fact from you.
3. Seems like your MIL is pulling all the strings in this relationship and is the dominant one over your wife.

I'd bring her away for a day or two and put the facts to her telling her how you feel. If she cannot see the damage this is doing to your marraige and by extension to your own family then surely you need to consider the next step.

Good luck.


----------



## zag

Amazing situation in this post.

I would agree with the posters who say not to unilaterally move your money to an account in your name - that will only fuel the fires and give your MIL ammunition in making the case against you.  Also as others have pointed out the arrangement for your wife to stop working was a joint family one, so taking away her access to the money would need to be a joint one also.

What you need to do is educate your wife in the ways of the world - paying money to family is something that is done out of kindness and out of disposable income.  Before any of this happens your family (where the money originates) needs to evaluate their needs, both short term and long term and then work out what disposable income is left and which might be available for others outside the immediate family.  It's not just a question of short term figures and your wife needs to understand this.  You need to provide for education, for your own retirement, for house buying (if you want to buy), etc . . . these are long term things that you need to have a plan for and which you need to be funding over time.  If close family members continually have first call on your money in the short term you will find it hard to treat this money as yours (which it obviously is).

It sounds like you are paying out a huge proportion of your after tax income to family members.  Perhaps you should do the sums clearly and show it to your wife.  Let's jsut say that it's 33% of your income that you are giving away - ask if she thinks this is reasonable.  If she does, then ask would she thinks 40% would be reasonable, and then 50% . . . then ask at what point she thinks she would draw the line.  This may help to realise what a huge amount of money you are giving away.

Also, if there was something she wanted to get recently but couldn't (that extra week in Spain, the new fridge, new outfit . . .) or where she had to settle for something a little less flash than she wanted, point out that if you hadn't paid over just one month of money to your family and hers she could have had it.

Finally, I'm with some of the other posters above - how much income do the various people already get ?  What are their outgoings ?  How could they possibly need this amount of *extra* money ?  Sure, it's nice to get extra money (I wouldn't say no . . .), but in reality are they just using it because it's made available or because they perhaps made some unwise property investments or something and have huge outgoings ?  What I'm getting at here is do they actually have huge financial commitments which you are paying ?  Maybe they say they would like to upgrade the car, think about the finances and then say "Oh, it's OK, NEO will top it up."

Finally, finally, don't forget that you can have all the restrictions on money in the accounts that you want, but as long as someone has a credit card or an ATM card there will be ways to get around it - occasional visits to Tesco with her mother with everything going on one bill, etc . . .

z


----------



## zag

Pop quiz - do you know where your childrens allowance is going ?

I'm not saying you should be getting it, but given what's outlined above you should consider the possibility that the childs grandparents may be getting it.


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## spursman

if i was giving my mother that much money every month she would think there was something wrong with me


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## Guest122

Pure Wind Up...


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## goingforgold

+1

Think this is a joke

Here we have a family man in his mid 30's, on a huge salary, with no house or investments of his own apart from 10K and yet is giving away thousands each month to anyone who wants it!

The question has been asked and not answered: What are your MIL and BIL doing with their dole money? Why do they need all this extra money?


----------



## Killter

Agree with Mercman - you and your wife should be a team, but if she can't see that and does this behind your back, put your hard earned cash out of her parents reach and give her a an allowance.


----------



## Neo

First, thanks everyone for your advice. Some posters have put a lot of effort into long detailed replies. I appreciate it greatly. 

Second, I am sorry that I have not been able to reply frequently. Due to the sensitive nature, I have to wait until I am alone, to post. 

To answer some of your questions

MIL got a redundancy package in 2003. Started a lifestyle she couldn't afford, and now has credit card and loans debts totaling $15,000. Most of her income goes to pay off her debts. I try not to be hypocritical, (upset she saw my payslip but demanding to know her income) but I gather that she was means tested when she still had half her redundancy package, which meant she was not getting a full dole, but she managed to bring part of her pension forward. So she gets about €1,000 a month. She is going to try and get means tested again.

BIL gets jobseekers allowance/benefit of about 100 a week. FIL is not really in the picture. He does not live with MIL. Doesn't pay child support because BIL is over 18.

In the last few months BIL has tried looking for jobs but he dosent have his leaving cert and he is competing with college graduates for the simple jobs. Maybe I can convince him to join the army

My parents bring in about $1,200 per month from a private pension. They get most things they are entitled to. My father was a factory worker.

Before we married my net pay was 6,000 and wife was 2,000. Please do not think I am a saint or unusually generous, and willy nilly hand out money, but at the time, giving 10% (600) to my parents, seemed immaterial. A small amount to me but a great deal to them. As I said, I could not enjoy myself knowing they were scrimping. I didn't want to be middle class while they were still lower class. Maybe since the recession, I have felt fortunate to still have a job and a moral obligation to share with those less fortunate than myself.

Also before we married, wife was staying with MIL and contributing to the daily expenses in that household. When we married, she left their house and that left a hole in their budget. I tried to be open and fair. We were bringing home 8,000. Giving 600 to her family and 600 to mine seemed fair and the right thing to do.

I will look into Deed of Covenant and Gift tax. I was also thinking of buying MIL's house from MIL and stating that these money's should be put towards the purchase price. But at the moment, I don't want to create any other liabilities e.g stamp duty. Maybe we can agree that rather than sell it to me, she leaves it to my son in her will. I will look into it.

From the replies I now think that this is probably more a relationship issue than a money issue and the recession has made normal people act crazy. Another attempt at a sane discussion with wife seems to be the best step, after all, we did marry. And there was something in those vows about "in sickness and in health, through rich and through poor, till death do we part" 

I deeply thank you all for your replies. You are the best. I wish I had the time to send you each a private thank you pm.


----------



## Rois

Neo said:


> I now think that this is probably more a relationship issue than a money issue and the recession has made normal people act crazy. Another attempt at a sane discussion with wife seems to be the best step, after all, we did marry. And there was something in those vows about "in sickness and in health, through rich and through poor, till death do we part"


 
Isn't this the *real* issue here? 

You married and made your vows to your wife and not to both your families, lazy BIL etc.

Simplify your problems now by concentrating on yourself, wife and child and your future together or you may not have one - or are you actually looking for a way out? 

Why not see a relationship/marriage guidance counsellor as mediator if you need to make "attempts" to have a "sane" discussion with your wife?


----------



## truthseeker

Neo said:


> From the replies I now think that this is probably more a relationship issue than a money issue and the recession has made normal people act crazy. Another attempt at a sane discussion with wife seems to be the best step, after all, we did marry. And there was something in those vows about "in sickness and in health, through rich and through poor, till death do we part"


 
No doubt the conversations in the past and your wife secretly passing money along to her mother has made this topic a difficult one to broach without tempers and denial rising high.

I would suggest you draw out the figures of what happens your money monthly, incomings and outgoings in a clear and easy to read manner.
Highlight the amount going to MIL and your own parents and ask your wife to have a discussion on such in a calm manner. Express to her that the conversation is futile if she puts up a wall of denial and that you need her to know that what you are trying to do is find an optimal solution to be fair to everyone.

Dont harp on to her about her mothers money wasting ways, keep it to what YOU can afford and whats appropriate. And be clear about your hopes for the future (owning a home, putting away savings, securing your future, securing your childs future).

Try to be objective, the biggest barrier you have here is your wifes sense of responsibility to her mother. Its difficult to change people and its difficult to changes peoples perceptions of their responsibilities - especially with the MIL actively asking your wife for funds. The amount you outline as the MIl receiving each month is a good amount of money - her debt is not your fault and it shouldnt be your responsibility.

Good luck with it - you sound like a very nice person who has been taken advantage of and put into a nasty position.
I think if you state your case now in a calm, clear and friendly manner you will save yourself a lot of pain in the future.


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## Yorrick

When you say that your mother in law will hate you I have to think of Billy Connolly.
His wife Pamela Stephenson is a psychotherapist. Billy  was sitting in the waiting room somewhere in Los Angeles. There was an older woman and a younger woman waiting also. Billy asked them what was their problems. The younger woman said "This woman is my mother in law and I can't understand why we do not like each other"

Billys answer was " What ever gave you the idea that you should ? 
Don't worry about people who are prepared to rip you off hating you.

If you keep pumping money into the the joint account your wife will keep taking it. 
Open another account. Give her an allowance and let her whistle.


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## spursman

you bring home 6k a month. what business are u in?


----------



## Billo

Bottom line is that your MIL owns a house and you and your family do not.
As I said earlier I still think that this is a wind up.


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## suemoo1

spursman said:


> you bring home 6k a month. what business are u in?


 
Can i get a job there please??


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## MOB

In this case, I am going to assume firstly that whatever solution is agreed will still involve giving some money to Mother in Law.  I am also gong to assume that she is not the sort of woman who is prepared to unilaterally do away with the credit card. it might also be worth insisting that - as a condition of getting any further financial assistance - your Mother in law should cut up her credit card.  I am always wary of interfering in the affairs of in laws.  But in this case it seems warranted.


----------



## Bronte

Let's clear the air with some figures.

Your parents income is 1200 Plus 600 from you = 1800

Their outgoing are what as compared to you ? Presumable they own their own home.

Your mother in law plus son is 1000 + 433 (son's dole) + 600 from you = 2033 topped up recently by your wife's kindness in giving another 400 from your savings = 2433 monthly.  Presumable she also has no mortgage.  Why doesn't she use here redudancy to pay back the 15K?
Her 1K income would be higher than a means tested dole payment so I don't see how she would get anything.  

You earn 5000 and after paying the other families 1200 are left with 3800.  When you knock off the rent of 1200 that leaves 2600.  You should think about that long and hard.  

I'm too am not sure that this isn't a windup.


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## sadie

If you can afford to give both sets of parents something every month then you should also be able to afford the following FIRST:

1. Private Health Insurance for yourselves and your children.

2. *Life Assurance* cover on both spouses life in the event of the untimely death of you or your partner. Mortgage cover life insurance is not enough, specially as you only have one income currently. As things stand if you or your partner had an untimely death_ NEITHER_ set of grandparents is in a position to offer the remaining one parent family ANY financial support. So the remaining spouse is left trying to support the family and provide childcare on one/no income. (I'm not in the insurance business it's just my opinion).


----------



## MOB

Bronte said:


> Let's clear the air with some figures........
> 
> You earn 5000 and after paying the other families 1200 are left with 3800.  When you knock off the rent of 1200 that leaves 2600.  You should think about that long and hard.
> 
> I'm too am not sure that this isn't a windup.



Hi Bronte,

The 'hard figures' exercise is very useful.  The figure is actually even worse: the €2600 does not take account of the wife's extra €400 of kindness.  Op's family has a nett €2,200 while MIL household has a nett €2433.  For not working!   Madness.........


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## irishmoss

If the mother is on Jobseekrs allowance now or in the future will she declare this extra income to SW?
Regardless of how you feel in helping them out to SW this is money coming into the household so she would be defrauding the state by not declaring it.


----------



## Bronte

MOB said:


> Hi Bronte,
> 
> The 'hard figures' exercise is very useful. The figure is actually even worse: the €2600 does not take account of the wife's extra €400 of kindness. Op's family has a nett €2,200 while MIL household has a nett €2433. For not working! Madness.........


 
But the 400 came from the savings not the income, that was my understanding.   But as you said it's madness anyway so I think it's a windup.  Nobody would do this.


----------



## goingforgold

I too, (like a lot of others) think this is a windup and assuming it is I think we need to make it clear that this is a forum for real people with real problems, and not phantom problems. A lot of people are seriously in a lot of trouble financially and they need all our time and assistance.


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## truthseeker

Just out of interest - why do people think this is a wind up?


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## Padraigb

I don't think this is a windup. Further, even if I suspected that it was, I would not post that opinion, because I might be wrong and give offence unnecessarily.

In any event, I see no harm being done by asking people to consider what might be the best course of action in certain scenarios. It doesn't matter whether it is a real situation or an invented one: by considering and discussing things, we can enlighten ourselves and one another.

Some of us older posters remember Frankie Byrne: the problems we are discussing today might not be your problems, but some day they might be.


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## z104

truthseeker said:


> Just out of interest - why do people think this is a wind up?


 

He mentioned lower class/middle class/upper class a couple of times.
No such thing for a start.

Nobody being paid 6k per month could be that gullible.

He is responsible for his wife and children. He should not be giving one penny to his parents or his MIL apart from xmas/bday. He is not responsible for them unless they are too ill or too old to care for themselves.

Pay off C.C. and start saving for a house. sort his own life out first, pension, mortgage paid down debt free, kids through college and paid for e.t.c.


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## sparkeee

cut em off,you have your own family to consider,thay are so used to leeching off others they cant stand up and  support emselves.get that lazy 20 year old off his hole and out earning some dosh.


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## Neo

Dear All

To answer your further questions.

I am a dentist. It took me 6 years to qualify and during that period I was earning a pittance. It is only in the last few years that my salary took off. That is why I don't have a lot of assets (house) etc.

I used to earn 6k but I took a 20% cut and now earn 5K. After taking into account known routine expenses of rent 1,200, Food and utilities 1,200, childcare 200, helping parents 1,200. I should be able to save at least 1K per month, but I don't. Every other month something non routine comes up, car repairs, insurance, tax, clothes, birthdays, weddings, pet bills, family doctor visits (which we pay and then claim at the end of the year) etc. It never ends. For christmas, everybody is getting a present of a picture of my empty wallet. 

Yes there are many tax implications of giving money to parents which I had not realised. I have to look into these especially deed of covenant. My profession demands a squeaky clean image and I have to do the right thing.

I am not from Dublin, but live here, and yes, there is an upper class, middle class and lower class. There are haves and have-nots. Some families can afford 2 suvs, some families can't afford even 1 car. If you dont believe me, I ask that you take a drive from D4 to D24 and then tell if you still believe that everyone is the same class.

This is not a wind up. I wish it was.


----------



## lightswitch

Neo, when you say you are not from Dublin do you mean you are not actually from Ireland?  

I think some of the comments you are receiving reflect the fact that most Irish people simply would not be as generous as you are towards their families so they find your values to be unbelievable.  You are clearly a very generous kind hearted person but can now see that the situation has gotten out of hand.

You do need to rearrange your financial support of both sets of parents but I think you know that yourself, so its just a matter of doing it.

As for some posters suggesting you give your wife an allowance please ignore them, they are clearly stuck in a time warp, this could end your marriage which would help no-one.


----------



## minion

Hi poster,
This is so weird.  I had nearly the same conversation with my brother last night.

He hasnt been working due to illness for about 1.5 years now and ive been giving him money.

I was in his house and he spilled it all to me.
His FIL and MIL retired at 50 and 55 a few years ago.  They still had 2 sons living with them.  I know the FIL and hes always going on about how well off he is and makes more money from the markets than he ever made working, yet my brother never took anything from him.  A couple of years ago he bought an apartment outright for his son for €350,000.

Then lost every other penny he had due to being stupid on the spreadbetting.  The man is skint.  

So my brother tells me that for the last 6 months hes been giving his FIL about €1000 a month because he now has lots of debts and not a penny to his name.  Still driving a 2006 Merc i might add.

So how does this story relate to the OPs story?
Its my money, which i am giving to my bro, that he is giving to his FIL.  He actually asked could he borrow more money from me because he hasnt got enough.

I just said - "Bro, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.  Im doing you a favour by not only not giving you more money now.  Im not giving you a penny anymore, even the money i gave you every month is stopping today.  Nothing."

I got kicked out then in a shouting match that started.  But i believe ive done the right thing.  He'll get over it and be all the better for it, but i gave him about €30,000 over the last while and he gave it away intead of giving it back to me.

Im still ****ed at him, and he has no right to be ****ed at me.  It will blow over, but had to happen that way.

His FIL lays the guilt trip on him and fleeces him, and then he lays the guilt trip on me, passing on the fleecing because hes afraid to stand up to his FIL.
Im going to call around to his FIL tonight and give him what for.


----------



## mercman

minion said:


> Im going to call around to his FIL tonight and give him what for.



Save yourself the journey and wasting your own time. So he went gambling and expects all and sundry to pay for it. And he never gave your brother a cent. What a plonker. And your brother is dishing out your money to the FIL. Another Plonker. Lose them before you end up becoming lost yourself.


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## goingforgold

Think you should try and open your own dental practice, you would earn a lot more money...


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## goingforgold

I should add that I understand that setting up your own business is quite stressful but worth considering


----------



## Bronte

Neo as you've come back to tell us more of what is going on, I'll tell you why I thought it was a windup and sometimes people do windups on here. Based on the salary your earned I reckoned you had to be a professional, someone College educated and so I thought therefore you must be bright and therefore would not be giving away most of your income to the detriment of your own family. Frankly I found it hard to believe. I still do. 

Minion - are you sure your brother is telling you the truth. Maybe it's him that has a gambling/spending problem? He had an extraordinary reaction to your withdrawal of financial support.


----------



## truthseeker

Bronte said:


> Based on the salary your earned I reckoned you had to be a professional, someone College educated and so I thought therefore you must be bright and therefore would not be giving away most of your income to the detriment of your own family.


 
Just because someone is academically bright doesnt mean that they dont feel an overdeveloped sense of responsibility to their family, and they may place a lower value on money that others also - resulting in the above situation.

Brains dont always equals street smarts.


----------



## spursman

indeed. i would argue that most academically gifted people are very un street smart


----------



## adonis

If your MIL is only now 50 you could be keeping her for a very long time. Same with your BIL. 

If you don't take control now you will never accummulate any assets in your life time.

Your wife is probably under the control of your MIL so you and you alone must make the necessary decisions.

If your partner is a stay at home wife why do you pay childcare fees?

More power to you for keeping three families going but you will never achieve anything in your lifetime doing so.


----------



## Mommah

Neo

I feel bad for your wife.
Before I had my own family I used to send money to my family.
I used to get the occasional requests for extra money and complied.

Then I decided I wanted to get married and save and the thought of stopping that money was very painful for me.

I know if I spoke face to face it could degenerate, so I wrote a letter to my parents and explained that I had done what I could to help the over the years and that I appreciated everything they had done for me.
But that now I needed to put money together for myself.
Signed off " Your loving daughter."

I posted that letter and that was about 16 years ago.
I have not heard one word about money or the letter since.
I'm sure they were hurt, but they understood. Never.mentioned.again.

Thing is my family has a dysfunctional way of managing money.
They will never see that themselves. They are often in crisis.
My own grandparents spent their nest-egg bailing my parents out. To no end.

Get your wife to read this thread....it is she who has to act.


----------



## minion

Bronte said:


> Neo as you've come back to tell us more of what is going on, I'll tell you why I thought it was a windup and sometimes people do windups on here. Based on the salary your earned I reckoned you had to be a professional, someone College educated and so I thought therefore you must be bright and therefore would not be giving away most of your income to the detriment of your own family. Frankly I found it hard to believe. I still do.
> 
> Minion - are you sure your brother is telling you the truth. Maybe it's him that has a gambling/spending problem? He had an extraordinary reaction to your withdrawal of financial support.



It was his FIL alright.  My brother married his childhood sweetheart.  We gre up on the same road so we all know each other well.
I went around last night and went through him in front of his wife and brother.  Turned out his brother had been giving him money too and thought noone else was.

Basically i told him he owed my brother and better start paying him back.  Obviously it will do no good, but im delighted i made an idiot out of the chancer in front of other who might benefit from knowing what hes like.


----------



## Bronte

minion said:


> , but im delighted i made an idiot out of the chancer in front of other who might benefit from knowing what hes like.


 
But he did give a 350K house to his own son?  Does this son help him out?


----------



## minion

Bronte said:


> But he did give a 350K house to his own son?  Does this son help him out?



His son doesnt work.  He went traveling for a few years and came home and couldnt find a job (read couldnt find a job he didnt think was beneath him).


----------



## MOB

Neo,

I hope you won't take this as unduly patronising.  Your income is very good, but it is simply not at a level where you can afford to support three families without restricting yourself to a lifestyle that will - ultimately - be considerably more humble than that enjoyed by your peers.  

If you are making a high six-figure income but are nevertheless quite happy to live in a modest 3-bed semi, drive a small car, skip foreign holidays, avoid dining out or ordering in, restrict your kids to cheap or free extra-curricular activities etc., then the very best of luck to you.  Many people - mostly those who have no economic freedom to do otherwise -  do exactly this.  Many people with much less money than you have very happy lives.  It is the way most of us were raised, myself included.  

BUT - poverty is relative.  If you are a dairy farmer milking 20 cows in Ireland, you are in a very humble position.  In Africa you would be the richest man in the village.  You are not an African farmer.  You are dentist in one of the wealthiest countries in the developed world.

Will you really be happy to see your colleagues send their teenage daughters on ski trips while yours help you in the garden?   Will you really be happy to go to a conference in your Ford Focus while your colleagues all travel in Audi\Merc\BMW cars?    Will you eventually get fed up of hearing about the dresses that other people's wives can afford in whatever boutique is flavour du jour, while your wife mixes and matches the same five or six pieces from Gap or Zara?  All perfectly valid lifestyle choices, by the way.

Even if you don't want a relatively expensive lifestyle, even if you don't want a big house or car, even if you don't want to give your kids a good financial start, can you see a situation where you might want to be able to say to yourself "I don't have those things because I choose not to have them".   Can you see a situation where you might ultimately resent the fact that you simply don't have the choices that your peers have?

Where am I going with all of this?   Simple.  Get help.  Make a plan for the life that you want and get that plan costed.  I think you need a mentor of some sort to help you plan your finances.  Start looking for one.


----------



## MandaC

Neo said:


> I am not from Dublin, but live here, and yes, there is an upper class, middle class and lower class. There are haves and have-nots. Some families can afford 2 suvs, some families can't afford even 1 car. If you dont believe me, I ask that you take a drive from D4 to D24 and then tell if you still believe that everyone is the same class.



I'm afraid you are mixing up middle class with middle income.


----------



## niceoneted

I would just like to say that what MOB wrote was excellent. What a fantastic piece of advice to give in this situation.


----------



## onq

niceoneted said:


> i would just like to say that what mob wrote was excellent. What a fantastic piece of advice to give in this situation.



+1

onq.


----------



## Joanne1

I am astonished by this thread!

Your MILs attitude is unbelievable.  What you earn is none of her business.  You should not feel obliged to support her.

You are certainly not doing BIL any favours in supporting him. If you don't put a stop to this now you could find yourself supporting him for many years to come.

At the moment yous have one child.  If yous plan on having more kids it might be wise to be saving for their education and future.

I don't really see why you need to be helping either sets of parents when yous haven't even a house of your own.

This situation seems to be having a detrimental effect on your health and marriage so I would try to resolve it ASAP.


----------



## Yachtie

First of all, a couple of very simple calculations:

When you and your wife married, your joint net income was €8,000 per month. By a joint decision, you gave €1,200 to your families. Since then, you added a child to your own family, your wife quit work and you took a 20% pay cut. Your income decreased by €3,000 yet the amount of 'give away' money increased by at least €400. This all doesn't look sensible at all. 

A long time ago, a wise old woman told me that her children owe her nothing - a child's debt to parents is repaid to the next generation (wise old lady's grandchildren). Personally I couldn't agree more. Something similar should be pointed out to your wife who is clearly being manipulated by her sponging mother and brother. Im on the verge of becoming a parent for the first time and majority of financial responsibility will fall onto myy husband, at least for a while. There is no way that I personally would feel right about subsidising my brother's lavish lifestyle from my husband's hard earned income. I understand necessities and emergencies but having an expectation the way your MIL has it is simply not on. 

IMHO, your situation calls for a heart to hear with your wife, including the pen, paper and a calculator. Work out what you can realistically afford to give to both your families and stick to your guns. Surely, if pointed out the facts, your wife will have to agree with you.


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## mercman

Yachtie said:


> IMHO, your situation calls for a heart to hear with your wife, including the pen, paper and a calculator.



If things persist forget pen, paper and calculator and go straight for the real action. I think you might need a solicitor.


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## burmo

Neo, how are you getting on after two years?


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## Purple

burmo said:


> Neo, how are you getting on after two years?



Neo hasn't posted anywhere since 10-10-2009, his last post on this thread. Don't expect a reply.


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## Elphaba

Alas..we will never know the ending..I hope it was a happy one....


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## Neo

Hi Folks
I haven’t posted much, but I do come here often. Because you asked, here is an update. There is a happy ending, well sort of.

I first tried to be logical and rational and showed my wife all the posts on this thread. We argued and eventually she appeared to agree and promised to put us first. Things were grand for a few months, or so I thought. Turns out all it did was put the activities deeper under cover. She would withdraw X from account for the weekly shopping, spend Y and keep the difference to deposit into my MIL’s account at the end of the month. 

That infuriated me, so I told her that I don’t trust her and I opened a separate bank account, with me as the sole signatory. Every week, I transferred a standard amount into the old account to pay for shopping etc. I thought things were ok, but they weren’t. Friends started asking me when was I going to pay them back??? Turns out she borrowed from our friends to help her mother and to evoke their generosity she had told them untrue stories about how it was for us as we were suffering or how I was mistreating her.

Things went rapidly downhill from there and we separated. She and my son are back at her mother’s and I am renting a room in town. Ironically (or is that painfully) I pay child support into the very same bank account that caused all this mess in the first place.

With regards to my BIL. Unknown to me, in 2010, he had a drug habit, which he has now managed to kick. I like to think my turning off the free cash helped. He is now working in London, but of course, “his only 22, so he is not able to do much”.

I say there is a happy ending because, the strange thing is, there is no more stress, or fighting, or suspicions. Instead there is peace and calm and hope that there is a brighter future. Yes I miss seeing my son during the week, but at least he is not in a house filled with constant fighting and negative energy.

2012 is around the corner and things look good. Thanks for listening to my rants and for your advice. I wish you all the best for the new year.

Take care
Your friend
Neo


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## Knuttell

Good for you Neo,you did all you could but the situation seemed intolerable,it would be impossible to continue on like that.
You are an intelligent,positive,resourceful fella and will prosper no matter what life throws at you.
Wishing you all the best in 2012.


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## becky

I remember this thread.  Sorry it didn't work out and hope you are in a better place now.  All the best for 2012 and beyond.  Thanks for updating us.


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## davo

mate, get a grip. 
your in laws are selfish!
They obviously dont care much about there grandchilds future.
you owe them nothing. You owe your family a secure future.


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## lucozade

I remember reading this tread before. Fascinating. Best of luck in 2012 Neo.


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## Billo

"I say there is a happy ending because, the strange thing is, there is no more stress, or fighting, or suspicions. Instead there is peace and calm and hope that there is a brighter future. Yes I miss seeing my son during the week, but at least he is not in a house filled with constant fighting and negative energy."

That's good.

You did what you had to do. . . sooner or later

 Good luck for the future.


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## AgathaC

Just want to wish you all the best for the future.


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## niceoneted

Always great to get updates on threads started, I think you were brave in your decision, but it was necessary. Best of luck for the future.


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## Complainer

It sounds like you did everything you reasonably could to sort out the situation. Pity it didn't work out. It sounds like an awful lack of maturity on her part.

Best of luck for the future.


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## Purple

Complainer said:


> It sounds like you did everything you reasonably could to sort out the situation. Pity it didn't work out. It sounds like an awful lack of maturity on her part.
> 
> Best of luck for the future.



+1.
She also showed a shocking lack of loyalty to you and your son; she put her parents lifestyle ahead of the stability and financial security her own child's home and family. Disgraceful behaviour.


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## Macstuff

All the best for the future Neo. Looking back what you were dealing with was not solely a financial issue but a more deep rooted emotional / psychological problem on you wifes part. 
You did the right thing, you had no other choice. Im sure it was a hard decision, but hopefully over time it will work out for the best.


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## donee

Knuttell said:


> Good for you Neo,you did all you could but the situation seemed intolerable,it would be impossible to continue on like that.
> You are an intelligent,positive,resourceful fella and will prosper no matter what life throws at you.
> Wishing you all the best in 2012.


 +1 could'nt have put it better all the best
donee


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## Tired Paul

Neo,

Well done. I've been reading this on and off for the apst while - better than any bloody soap opera.
I admire your outlook and the prospects ahead of you - may 2012 be your time.


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## DrMoriarty

+1 to all the above, Neo, and best wishes for the new path you're travelling now which, rocky though it may be at times, is undoubtedly pointing in a better direction.
You've done the right thing, and I hope 2012 will bring you a bit of well-deserved serenity.


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## emeralds

Best of luck with the future.


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## ney001

Thanks for posting the update Neo, it's always good to hear the outcomes and it may help other posters.

You deserve a very happy 2012 and I hope it remains calm and peaceful! Well done to you.


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## RIAD_BSC

......


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## Bronte

You should have left that post Riad it was an interesting viewpoint. 

Neo what an amazing ending to this story.  Glad you are happier in yourself.  I think your wife never mentally moved away from living at home. 

Minion any chance of an update from you.


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## chlipps

Well done Neo... important that you record your version as in future it will be important that your son knows the reason why you left.  (printout out the full 112 comments to date and give him to him when he is older) can only assume the rubbish that the in-laws have fed him for why you left

If you can save a little and hide it away for him until he is older so that he has control of it rather than your Ex then that would be great

Best of Luck.


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## horse

*Best of Luck.*

Hi Neo,
         Glancing through your post is very interesting and the fact that you grabbed the bull by the horns and turned the situation around .............takes guts. Earlier you mentioned that you might convince your BIL to join the army..............times have changed - you need to convince the Army to take your BIL.
Cheers,
Horse


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## Black Sheep

Neo

I'm very glad you are in a better place and at peace.
However I'm also very sad that such a generous man was never appreciated and paid such a high price

Best of luck in the future


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## oldnick

Neo - when your divorce is final could you marry my daughter ?

I'm looking for a SIL like you -a good earner in a secure job who is generous to a fault and doesn't expect his wife to work.
God, I'd marry you.


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## ney001

oldnick said:


> Neo - when your divorce is final could you marry my daughter ?
> 
> I'm looking for a SIL like you -a good earner in a secure job who is generous to a fault and doesn't expect his wife to work.
> God, I'd marry you.



Ha ha


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## minion

Bronte said:


> You should have left that post Riad it was an interesting viewpoint.
> 
> Neo what an amazing ending to this story.  Glad you are happier in yourself.  I think your wife never mentally moved away from living at home.
> 
> Minion any chance of an update from you.



I was just looking in here again too tonight.  Very interesting developments from Neo.
I wish him the best.

Nothing so soap opera in my case.
In my own situation, it turned out our other brother was being hit up, as I was, for money too.
We sat little bro down and had it out.  Had it out with his wife too.  It all got sorted out because she is not talking to her father anymore now, after not just that, but other things that came out in the wash.

Basically a happy ending.  Except my brother owes myself and my other brother a fortune.  We just take a token amount from him.

His leech of a FIL now lives in a rented 1 bed apartment on his own, on the dole.


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