# Company Merging



## MandaC (26 Feb 2008)

We were advised yesterday that our company is to be merged in about six weeks. I have known for months and was just waiting for confirmation.

We were hearing back from clients about the merger before the company had the courtesy to tell us and I (being me) said outstraight yesterday that we should have been told before clients.

We were given very scant information....we would be moving premises but they dont know where yet.......we are merging with so and so.

Nothing else was said. 

From reading the previous posts on TUPE it would appear that we are entitled to the exact same terms and conditions as we are on

EG.  After reaching 5 years service, I am paid 10% of. my salary into a pension fund but that was not in my original contract so is not in writing where does that stand.

We have casual Friday, are we entitled to keep this.

Personally, I feel they have a location in mind, but are not telling us deliberately at the moment.  I would want to stay in the location I am currently in, and would rather seek a new position within the area. 

Question is,  do we have to move even though the location will not suit at all?

We will be getting our P45's from one company and commencing with a new company.  Is this a break in service for redundancy purposes etc.


I reckon where they are looking at will add 3 hours travel time each day to my journey.  Not that far distance wise, but a nightmare for traffic.

Their position will be, well its not our fault where people live,   however my position is I joined the company because of its location five years ago.

Feel on the backfoot because of this, our company will be the one swallowed up, there are only two employees left on our side and currently five on theirs.  I feel they could not care if we leave or not,  can we opt for redundancy if our existing company is no more.

Sorry for all the questions.  The whole thing has not been handled well to date by our employer and even though in the main they have been very good to me over the years I have been with them, all the cloak and dagger stuff has led to distrust.

I think I will ring DETE for us this morning, but if anyone has any guidance or has gone through it and might point out the pitfalls, I would appreciate it.

Thanks


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

MandaC said:


> We have casual Friday, are we entitled to keep this.


Is this really high on the list of priorities?! 


> Question is,  do we have to move even though the location will not suit at all?


As far as I know in most (at least non unionised) jobs employees can be required to move location as and when necessary. Many contracts of employment cover this in terms of requiring the employee wherever the company is located or at other locations from time to time.


> We will be getting our P45's from one company and commencing with a new company.  Is this a break in service for redundancy purposes etc.


Are you sure that you should be getting a _P45 _in a takeover situation? I would not have thought so.


> I reckon where they are looking at will add 3 hours travel time each day to my journey.  Not that far distance wise, but a nightmare for traffic.
> 
> Their position will be, well its not our fault where people live,   however my position is I joined the company because of its location five years ago.


I don't think that you have any statutory rights in this situation. 


> Feel on the backfoot because of this, our company will be the one swallowed up, there are only two employees left on our side and currently five on theirs.  I feel they could not care if we leave or not,  can we opt for redundancy if our existing company is no more.


That's life/business.


> I think I will ring DETE for us this morning, but if anyone has any guidance or has gone through it and might point out the pitfalls, I would appreciate it.


Is it not _NERA _(www.employmentrights.ie) who deal with such matters now?


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## Mpsox (26 Feb 2008)

It's understandable to be nervous when your company merges/is taken over but I think on some of these you are jumping the gun

In terms of location, I would only start worrying about this when they announce it, no point in guessing at this stage and you and your colleagues should focus on the more immediate issues at hand. However, they cannot force you to move, but likewise, if you decide not to move, you're only option may be to resign. You may be entitled to some compensation as part of a move, for example if the facilities on the new site are less then you are used to and I know in the case of my own employers, when we do this, we pay a mileage allowance for the first 2 years for any extra miles staff have to travel. You and your colleagues will need to discuss this either directly with management or via your union if you are represented. If you decide not to move, there is no automatic entitlement to redundancy that I am aware of, although I have heard of cases in the past where it was paid

In terms of your length of service etc, TUPE (Transfer of undertakings of permanent employees) legislatiuon governs this. I can't say for definite what the legisaltion is but having had my employers sold twice in the last 15 years and having been outsourced once as well, on all 3 occassions 

our service continued over to our new employer
we were not issued with p45s


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

Mpsox said:


> In terms of your length of service etc, TUPE (Transfer of undertakings of permanent employees) legislatiuon governs this. I can't say for definite what the legisaltion is but having had my employers sold twice in the last 15 years and having been outsourced once as well, on all 3 occassions
> our service continued over to our new employer
> we were not issued with p45s


I've been through this once (early 1990s so I don't what rules applied then) and my experience was the same on the two specific points above. We also have to move premises (albeit to another location in _Dublin _city centre which did not inconvenience most people) and it was on a take it or leave it basis.


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## MandaC (26 Feb 2008)

We are definitely being issued with P.45's from the existing company because I saw a Director completing them. 

We have a more than fair idea of where the location is going to be and it will definitely not suit me at all traffic wise, so guess its back to the job search for me!

When you are only being fed bits and pieces of information from the company, it is hard not to be nervous. 

*Moderator note: *off topic comments removed. Please read the posting guidelines.

[comment]Sometimes I hold off on posting my queries on this site now, because of the rather agressive and unhelpful replies you get. I dont know if anyone else feels the same?[/comment]




Thanks.


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## ATgirl (26 Feb 2008)

I worked for a company about 5 years ago who merged with another co. and we were issued with P45's and signed new contracts.  The company name was changing too so maybe that had something to do with it perhaps.


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## Mpsox (26 Feb 2008)

in terms of your employer issuuing you with a P45, if that is the case, are they not making you redundant and if so you should be entitled to redundancy payements?

I'm not convinced the actions your employer are taking on this are legally correct.


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## shipibo (26 Feb 2008)

MandaC said:


> EG. After reaching 5 years service, I am paid 10% of. my salary into a pension fund but that was not in my original contract so is not in writing where does that stand.


 
Pension funds carryover not included in TUPE, but as this is a BIK for years of service, should be adhered to.



MandaC said:


> Personally, I feel they have a location in mind, but are not telling us deliberately at the moment. I would want to stay in the location I am currently in, and would rather seek a new position within the area.


 
Look for relocation monies, or allowance for move.



MandaC said:


> Question is, do we have to move even though the location will not suit at all?


 
If move is extreme, you can look for redundancy




MandaC said:


> We will be getting our P45's from one company and commencing with a new company. Is this a break in service for redundancy purposes etc.


 
This will break your terms of service, any future redundancy payments will start at time of employment with new entity.




MandaC said:


> I reckon where they are looking at will add 3 hours travel time each day to my journey. Not that far distance wise, but a nightmare for traffic.
> 
> Their position will be, well its not our fault where people live, however my position is I joined the company because of its location five years ago.


 
Any explicit statements in your contract pertaining to location ??


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## pinkyBear (26 Feb 2008)

Something simular happened to my brother in terms of a takeover and a relocation - he was entitled to redundancy within 6mths of the move as the new location changed commute time from 1 hour to 4...


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## MandaC (27 Feb 2008)

I phoned NERA and even though we can be given P45's, it does not constitute a break in service.

We may also be entitled to redundancy if the new location is not suitable.

Will wait to hear the exact location before making any more plans.

I dont want to fall out with them, because in the main, they have been very good to me, but if its time to call it a day, then would prefer to leave with a few bob(my statutory works out about €8K) if I am entitled to it, than leave with nothing.


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## shipibo (27 Feb 2008)

Nice one on the P45, 

keep us updated on the location vs. redundancy argument, how far constitutes grounds for redundancy.


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## MandaC (20 Mar 2008)

Very interesting article on the location vs. redundancy argument in the Irish Independent last week.

Am posting the link here for anyone interested.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle...e-my-employer-is-moving-location-1315226.html

Our own situation here has gotten worse.  Still have no more information about what is happening apart from the fact that there has been a shortlist of locations drawn up and they are all in the area I thought they would be in, so definitely will not suit.


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## shipibo (21 Mar 2008)

Interesting Link ...


as it will add approx. 90 mins each way on your journey, and management are not being flexible, you may be still in game for redundancy payment.

Any explicit geographic statments in your T+Cs .....


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## MandaC (21 Mar 2008)

No mention of location within contact of employment...only mentions "the office".  I reckon I would have a good chance of qualifying for redundancy.

However,  have been checking out jobs and the position is this...salaries across the board are taking a cut with the way the economy is turning.  We are very well paid.   I will not get another job going in at my current salary.  I will need to take a pay cut to build my salary up over the next few years.  (Suppose same as I did in this job)  Its quite a substantial pay cut(could be in the region of  anything up to €10K gross, approx. €5K net)

As you can imagine, this does not suit me at all, so am faced with the prospect of going somewhere with an awkward commute, it has also come to light that the new owner does not want us,  or taking a pay cut for a period.  Might try and negotiate this into my leaving package rather than just accept statutory redundancy.

One director is fighting our corner but is leaving before the merger (ha ha - buy out) happens.

Will keep you informed for anyone interested.


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## shipibo (22 Mar 2008)

Manda,


    Have you checked relocation/ travel package with new employer, an increment onto salary / BIK ?? , this may help your redundancy claim, as he may think you are looking for silly money ....


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## MandaC (22 Mar 2008)

Its a mixture that the old employer was very generous and the new employer appears to be the exact opposite.  

Our office was very disfunctional and there was a lot of hassle (more to do with peoples personal circumstances than anything else)  A lot of other staff could not and would not put up with the hassle. 

New employer has not even had the couresty to introduce himself to us whilst our director went to their premises and met with their staff lots of times.

Director leaving has told us off the record that there was consternation when new employer found out what we were being paid.  However, if I were to start with a new employer, I would have to take a pay cut, but after six years in the position I am in my salary would be par for the course for a good candidate (which I am)  So in reality if I had been somewhere else for the six years, my salary would now be similar to what I am on now.

The buy out is happening for personal reasons more than anything else and thats no problem for me.  I completely understand why its happening for the person concerned.


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