# Executor behaviour.



## nicole84

Me and my sibling have been left a house by my father in the UK.
The executors are my uncle and aunt. Neither of them are close to us.
My uncle says that the last renters of the place have left a lot of junk/mess and he will have numerous expenses to sort this out. Skip possibly contractors.
He requested that I write a signed letter to the UK solicitor saying I agree to pay him and my aunt 10,000 out of the estate at the end, to pay expenses.
I said that I would instead like receipts of expenses and pay that amount and he said well you can't get receipts for everything eg.mileage. I know he is chancing his arm and this is causing me stress.
Does anyone know of the proper accounting procedure for executors.
Also, he has already made purchases without getting my approval such as a skip at 200 euro. Can he do this? I dont want him to spend estate money on anything he feels like without my agreement.
Thanks.


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## Thirsty

This is an Irish website, UK law may be different though I suspect in broad terms it is similar.

Don't sign any such letter, I've never heard of a request like that.

As regards out of pockets expenses, yes they are paid by the estate. The executor has a legal and personal responsibility to account for all expenses.

I'm open to correction (and again UK rules may be different) but there is no mileage allowance for executors.

Who is doing probate? The exec or solicitor?


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## major

Why don't you and your sibling go over to the uk, assess what has to be done to clean up the house.


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## nicole84

Thanks, we were thinking of that last night.
With regard to executors expenses, they have to provide receipts dont they?


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## Deiseblue

Yes , all post death expenses are referred to as testamentary expenses & should be receipted.
The Executors or the solicitor acting on their behalf should provide a statement of accounts covering the administration period reflecting the collection of sssets & the payment of liabilities .


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## huskerdu

The executor has the job of preparing the house for sale, so your Aunt and Uncle were within their rights to book a skip as a legitimate expense without getting your permission.

Where was your father living, the UK or Ireland and is the will being processed in the UK ?

If so, and I were you, I would get some legal advice on how an executor is supposed to act in the UK. If it  is the broadly the same as Ireland, I would write to your Aunt and Uncle and the solicitor and make clear that you expect all executor expenses to be receipted and you will expect a statement of accounts.  This is what the law required them to do anyway. 


If you wish to offer to pay their mileage expenses,  as a gesture, if they live far from the house, this might go a long way to helping the situation, and being fair to them, and smoothing over a family row.


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## nicole84

Thank you. Can I specify that he doesn't make any purchases without getting mine and brother's prior approval.

Doesn't the whole executor/beneficiary thing seem to make so much more hassle than needs be. It seems like a conflict of interest, and casuses so much bad blood between people. If we were both beneficiaries and executors it would be so easy.
Alas, my father was close to his brother and sister, and he was close to us, but due to parent's divorce, aunt and uncle and me and brother are total strangers, I dont see why wills are set up this way.
He also requested, pushed hard twice, that me and brother leave my father's girlfriend, not named in will, a lump sum. WE both said no.


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## huskerdu

nicole84 said:


> Thank you. Can I specify that he doesn't make any purchases without getting mine and brother's prior approval.



I dont know if you can. You should get legal advice on that. 
There is a difference between 200 on a skip and deciding to spend 20000 on the house before selling, I dont know where the line is. 



> Doesn't the whole executor/beneficiary thing seem to make so much more hassle than needs be. It seems like a conflict of interest, and casuses so much bad blood between people. If we were both beneficiaries and executors it would be so easy.
> Alas, my father was close to his brother and sister, and he was close to us, but due to parent's divorce, aunt and uncle and me and brother are total strangers, I dont see why wills are set up this way.




It was your fathers decision to make them executors. You have to respect that. They possibly don't want to do it.


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## nicole84

huskerdu said:


> I dont know if you can. You should get legal advice on that.
> There is a difference between 200 on a skip and deciding to spend 20000 on the house before selling, I dont know where the line is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was your fathers decision to make them executors. You have to respect that. They possibly don't want to do it.



I know, it's just he's talking about hiring in contractors to clear out the whole house, and I don't understand why me, who will ultimately be paying for it, doesn't have a say. And also he's requested a 10,000 lump sum to be paid to himself out of nowhere.


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## cremeegg

Is it not possible for the beneficiaries acting together to replace the executor.


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## Deiseblue

Only through the courts & only if the Executor is failing in their duty & such is not the case here to date


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## POC

This might be a stupid question, but why are the executors selling the house at all? Surely it's up to the beneficiaries to decide. They might choose to keep it and rent it out for example. 
If the executors have to sell the house, and prepare it for sale - that is a lot of work for them, with nothing to show for it. They are doing you and your dad a big favour really. Especially if the beneficiaries are questioning all expenses, big and small.


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## nicole84

Poc my suspicion has been raised by him requesting for 10,000 to be given to him at the end.
That's why I'm starting to worry about what he's going to spend.


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## llgon

Nicole, you didn't answer POC's question about why the executors are selling the house? If you and your sibling have been left the house why will you not deal with this yourselves once probate is complete since there is obviously a trust issue between your uncle and yourself.


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## PaddyBloggit

nicole84 said:


> I know, it's just he's talking about hiring in contractors to clear out the whole house, and I don't understand why me, who will ultimately be paying for it, doesn't have a say



Looking at it from his point of view ... clearing out a house is a lot of work .... I too would be getting contractors in and getting the estate to pay for it.


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## nicole84

The will specifies house is sold and distributed.
I just spoke to my mother, and she said her sister is executor of another will. And she is not allowed to make any purchases without the beneficiaries permission. I am not sure why he is allowed to.
I have spoken to my mother and we have agreed to go over to the uk, speak to the solicitor, and go and see what state the house in and go and sort the house out ourselves. Brother,mother and I all angry at his cheeky request for 10,000 with no receipts!


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## POC

So the property has to be sold - hopefully you'll get the information you need when you travel over and meet the solicitor. You'll be able to clarify whether the executors must arrange the sale, or if you and your brother can do it.
I agree the 10,000 sounds cheeky. Did the executors receive anything in the will for themselves? Maybe they are feeling hard done by.


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## nicole84

POC said:


> So the property has to be sold - hopefully you'll get the information you need when you travel over and meet the solicitor. You'll be able to clarify whether the executors must arrange the sale, or if you and your brother can do it.
> I agree the 10,000 sounds cheeky. Did the executors receive anything in the will for themselves? Maybe they are feeling hard done by.


No they didn't. I don't care if they feel hard done by. It's not their money! And they have never shown any interest in me and my brother throughout our entire lives.Which again brings up the conflict of interest of an executor and beneficiary. You can't ask for lots of money as executor because you feel hard done by! If I make a will, I am making both executor and beneficiary the same person for ease. Thank you for your points. Would you all like to be updated after I visit the UK solicitor. It might help someone else in the future.


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## Marsha25

10k seems a lot of money to clear out a house unless it's completely wrecked. Definitely go over and see what he's talking about. If it's  a matter of getting a few large skips to get rid of furniture so be it. It would be cheaper to bring a couple of mates over for a weekend and fill the skips yourselves! Then get a valuation. No point spending money doing up the house if you would be happy enough to accept a reasonable offer as house stands. I do think your uncle is being unreasonable asking for such a large sum and not expecting to provide receipts.


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## llgon

nicole84 said:


> I have spoken to my mother and we have agreed to go over to the uk, speak to the solicitor, and go and see what state the house in and go and sort the house out ourselves. Brother,mother and I all angry at his cheeky request for 10,000 with no receipts!



Not sure if this means you're bringing your mother with you.  I think your best strategy will be to try and build bridges with your uncle while also sticking to your guns regarding the 10k requested.  There is obviously a fair bit of animosity between your father's family and your mother and I don't think her presence will be helpful to you.


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## elcato

Sorry but having gone through the process of clearing out and making it presentable for a sale recently, 10k is not unreasonable. Skips don't fill themselves, leaks need sorting, estate agents have to be appointed etc. Perhaps when you go over and start doing it yourself you may realise this.


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## Bronte

People are missing the point about the 10K.  The executor wants Nicole to sign a document agreeing to make this a 'gift' to her uncle and aunt.

Nicole is being unreasonable about a petty item like a €200 skip.

I don't believe the beneficiaries have any say in how the executor acts. That's the whole point of having executors, to carry out the wishes of the testator.  But, the executor must act honestly and will have to account for every penny spent.  With receipts.

Advice to Nicole, don't get bogged down in petty stuff like cleaning out a house.  Ask permission to do so, if you think you're going to be unreasonable charge, so far a single skip is nothing. If you do go there, you might just be heading for a fight, so that perhaps ought to be avoided. There is no need to take this to war setting.

One other thing, the man's dead partner.  Take consideration of that person's needs if you and your siblings can do so, particularly if you are getting a windfall and she needs a kind gesture of a small amount.  One must move beyound antagonism for divorces and think about what your estranged father would have wanted.

Nicole can write a letter to the executor's solictors outlining her concerns.  Putting things to paper will concentrate everybodies minds.


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## nicole84

Thanks for the points Bronte.
We won't be taking care of his partner. She was not specified by him in his will.
She is a complete stranger to us, never  interacted/ cared for us once in our lives.  So that is a definite no.


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## elcato

Bronte said:


> People are missing the point about the 10K. The executor wants Nicole to sign a document agreeing to make this a 'gift' to her uncle and aunt.


Yes - I agree totally. I was just pointing out that there may well be a lot of work involved which could make the total bill be this. As Bronte and others have pointed out, rather than go into war mode it may be best to deal with the solicitor and ask for receipts to be kept but allow for a bit of non receipted stuff like having to hang around for a builder/skip and if they have to travel a bit maybe even some petrol.


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## Early Riser

Just wondering - how many would volunteer or agree to be a beneficiary ?

                        - how many would volunteer or agree to be  an executor ?


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## Thirsty

I suspect you mistyped the first question.

As for being an executor; you would normally be asked first and you are of course free to decline.  You can also decline to act after the person has passed away and someone else is then appointed in your place.

I know if I was the executor in the case referenced here, and having seen some of the follow up posts from the OP, I would pull out sharpish and leave them to it.


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## nicole84

elcato said:


> Sorry but having gone through the process of clearing out and making it presentable for a sale recently, 10k is not unreasonable. Skips don't fill themselves, leaks need sorting, estate agents have to be appointed etc. Perhaps when you go over and start doing it yourself you may realise this.


It is more the fact that I requested receipts and he brushed me off. This money is very important to us. My mother has suggest


Thirsty said:


> I suspect you mistyped the first question.
> 
> As for being an executor; you would normally be asked first and you are of course free to decline.  You can also decline to act after the person has passed away and someone else is then appointed in your place.
> 
> I know if I was the executor in the case referenced here, and having seen some of the follow up posts from the OP, I would pull out sharpish and leave them to it.


I'm sure if you were a beneficiary youd be handing over ten thousand, no questions asked. 
If I was administering someones estate I wouldn't dream of asking for ten thousand


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## Thirsty

> I'm sure if you were a beneficiary youd be handing over ten thousand


Quite how you come to that conclusion is a mystery to me.  I believe I made it clear that you should not give any such undertaking.

In charity I'll make allowances for that fact that you are recently bereaved and possibly of younger years and will leave it at that.


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## Laramie

The executor of my father's estate spent about €2k and never provided receipts when asked. This was mainly spent on getting a few Polish lads to clean out the house. A gardener who seemed to cut the grass every second day. Window cleaner. Heavy duty garden clearing by the same Polish lads above. Apparently none of the above were asked or were able to provide receipts or so we were told.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> Thanks for the points Bronte.
> We won't be taking care of his partner. She was not specified by him in his will.
> She is a complete stranger to us, never  interacted/ cared for us once in our lives.  So that is a definite no.



I get that.  My point wasn't about you. It was about your father.  And her.  If she was with him a long time she must be hurting.  And it may have been an ommission of his not to have altered his will to consider her.  It happens all the time.


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## Bronte

Laramie said:


> The executor of my father's estate spent about €2k and never provided receipts when asked. This was mainly spent on getting a few Polish lads to clean out the house. A gardener who seemed to cut the grass every second day. Window cleaner. Heavy duty garden clearing by the same Polish lads above. Apparently none of the above were asked or were able to provide receipts or so we were told.



And?

Honestly managing and keeping a property maintained to get it to a good saleable price costs money.  I consider you are being petty, if you don't mind my saying so.  Did the poles do a great job and did the executor have the property looking good for sale.


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> I get that.  My point wasn't about you. It was about your father.  And her.  If she was with him a long time she must be hurting.  And it may have been an ommission of his not to have altered his will to consider her.  It happens all the time.


Thanks Bronte. How people treat me is how I treat them. I tried to build a relationship with them and she didn't want to know us. So it seems a bit much to ask for money now. If she had shown any care for us I would show it for her. I care more about my brother getting what he deserves


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> And?
> 
> Honestly managing and keeping a property maintained to get it to a good saleable price costs money.  I consider you are being petty, if you don't mind my saying so.  Did the poles do a great job and did the executor have the property looking good for sale.


Bronte with all due respect you're an executor and you're seeing it from that side.
I am trying to see it from both sides. Its not fair your side having to shell out, but on the other side it can feel like we are left in the dark without receipts. You said you kept all your receipts though so you're doing it well.


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## T McGibney

Can't speak for the UK but Ireland is full of houses and premises that fell into dereliction after their owners died. A man quite near me dropped dead at a young age 13 or 14 years ago and nobody has ever opened the door of his place since. The roof has since fallen in and everything has been destroyed.  There are a few other places on the same street in not much better condition.

If you have an executor who is actually willing to act to protect your property, count yourself extremely lucky. And do look after them.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> Bronte with all due respect you're an executor and you're seeing it from that side.
> I am trying to see it from both sides. Its not fair your side having to shell out, but on the other side it can feel like we are left in the dark without receipts. You said you kept all your receipts though so you're doing it well.




I'm also a beneficiary. And I want to make as much as I can from the estate as I can.  I have no interest in diddlying anyone.  If, not you, another poster about a measly 2K thinks executors are creaming it they are delusional.  I think it cost 1K in skips so far, and a sibling went in, with all our consent, to live there for a while, and I might need another skip.  I can't wait for the whole thing to be ended.  Currently stuck in a legal quagmire.


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## elcato

Bronte said:


> I can't wait for the whole thing to be ended. Currently stuck in a legal quagmire.


 Yep - I can empathize. This is why I stated that while it's cheeky to ask for 10k, no money in the world would make me go through it again. We are trying to give you an insight into the executors side Nicole while at the same time respecting your side of it.


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## nicole84

Yes, and I do really welcome all the advice. Its been really helpful.
I realise I have my mother in my ear who hates my uncle.
And I don't think the 10k request actually came from my uncle. He is very influenced by his wife. Who does not like my mother. I can just see her saying to him, ask for this!
So I am trying to get a balanced view and sort this for the best.
I just want the less stress as possible, I know if I go over with my mother, she will fight for me, but go over all guns blazing, and maybe cause it to be more difficult.
I think I will say to him to keep an executor account, to list everything he spends, and receipts and this will be paid to him at the end.
Its hard to know what to do for the best in these situations. Thanks for the advice.


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## Vanessa

I have done the executor role. There can be an awful amount of work and sress involved especially when interfering beneficiaries are involved. In many cases I had to pay upfront for services involving the insurance and maintenance of the property. I was not a beneficiary. However I contacted each of the four beneficiaries and explained exactly what was required of me, costs and time involved. It was they suggested  that I get a payment for my time and that I would via the solicitor provide full detailed accounts plus receipts for all costs incurred. If they had not suggested a payment I would certainly have requested one. After all it was my work which would result in them, without any effort, getting a good injection of funds.


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## Laramie

Bronte said:


> And it may have been an ommission of his not to have altered his will to consider her.


  We don't know that. Maybe it was done on purpose. Pretty stupid omission if it was.


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## Laramie

Bronte said:


> And?
> 
> Honestly managing and keeping a property maintained to get it to a good saleable price costs money. I consider you are being petty, if you don't mind my saying so. Did the poles do a great job and did the executor have the property looking good for sale



No it wasn't looking good. I don't think that I ever met a person more lazy than the executor. All my father's clothes were thrown in a black bin despite the fact that 5 minutes away from the house was a charity clothes collection point. I collected what I could and gave the items to a charity shop. Some were brand new items.


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## Bronte

Laramie, you could have dealt with the clothes. It's not the executors responsiblity to be as socially conscious as you feel they ought to be.


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## Bronte

Nicole, do not bring your mother to England. You sound young.  Trust me now, stay away from England altogether.  Correspond in a nice polite letter to the solicitor and state you want everything to be receipted. 

.... _and I trust everything will be receipted....._ 

Vanessa, I will take nothing in monatary terms for the time I've spent, I will do the job my mother expected of me, that's how I view it, she trusted me to do it.  If you're also not a beneficiary I can well understand why payment is the right way to go. And in your case the executors were very understanding of what you were doing.


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## nicole84

I would like your advice on this aswell. It is my first time going through this so all opinions welcome.
I know my dad has left us a considerable amount of money as well as the house. In the tens of thousands. I have asked the executor twice exactly what the figure is, and he won't tell me.
As he has asked me for 10,000, I think it is very pertinant to know what is in my fathers estate. He won't tell me.
Any thoughts or experience?


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## Thirsty

Once grant of probate is complete the filed documents are in the public record and you can get a copy of them.


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## nicole84

Thirsty said:


> Once grant of probate is complete the filed documents are in the public record and you can get a copy of them.


Do you know how long on average probate takes? We have decided to go over and try and sort it out ourselves as otherwise I think it could drag on over a year


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## nicole84

One last question! My dad left his entire estate to me and my brother . I know there are boxes of childhood photos in my dads girlfriends house. Whom I have met twice . I said to my uncle that I wanted them and he fobbed me off. Does anyone have any experience of this. Its a quagmire after someone dies!


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## Thirsty

UK law may be different but a year to get grant of probate would not be unusual.

You've been given lots of good advice here, but seem disinclined to accept it. Which is of course your perogative; I'm not inclined however to give any further advice.


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## Sue Ellen

Make an appointment for yourself and your brother to meet with the solicitor.  Make arrangements to view the house before the meeting and discuss with the solicitor your reservations with the manner in which the estate is being dealt with.  Ask if it is possible to get a copy of the Will.  At the end of the day the solicitor's fee is coming from your inheritance.


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## nicole84

Thank you Sue Ellen


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## nicole84

When pressed on what was in my fathers bank accounts he was very vague, and said 'theres a few different bank accounts, I haven't totalled it all up', it is around such and such a figure. The figure is much lower than we all believed my father to have, as my father inherited the proceeds of another house. This is a nightmare and I haven't slept well with the worry. We have numerous reasons to believe my uncle is mishandling the estate. Can he spent money in my fathers accounts


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## Laramie

Bronte said:


> Laramie, you could have dealt with the clothes. It's not the executors responsiblity to be as socially conscious as you feel they ought to be.


  His wife was one of the beneficiaries. I bagged all the clothes. His wife volunteered to take them to the charity shop/bank.(each of us had volunteered to share different tasks). Neither of them had any intention of doing this. He dumped them in the black bin.

The executor and his wife (my sister) fooled my father in to believing that they would take care of his belongings. Every week personal items were being dumped in the black bin by both of them before the rest of us knew what was going on. Myself and my brother had to ask for a key to the house. The executor's wife had a key.

Regarding bank balances. I asked to see bank statements etc. The executor refused. His wife was allowed to see them though. On this basis we had to raise the legal issue that all beneficiaries have to be treated equally.

A number of small bank accounts were never closed (too much trouble). Small amounts of shares were never dealt with. 

I think the OP should take a very active role in her father's estate.


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## nicole84

He has now told me the delay in information is because fathers partner is considering contesting the will.
At least I know.
To be honest I dont care if she does. They were together a long time, but not married. I don't think she has any rights to it, and she will occur legal expenses.


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## major

nicole84 said:


> He has now told me the delay in information is because fathers partner is considering contesting the will.
> At least I know.
> To be honest I dont care if she does. They were together a long time, but not married. I don't think she has any rights to it, and she will occur legal expenses.


I'd say she'd  be entitled to a share of it if  together for a long time and more especially if living together


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## Thirsty

> Can he spent money in my fathers accounts


No, accounts that were in your father's sole name are frozen until Grant of Probate extracted.


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## nicole84

Major he didn't want to leave her any of it. The last time I was over in England he brought me to see our childhood house and said to me that he wanted to leave it to me and my brother. So I know that was his express wish.
How I feel now is I don't care if she challenges it and every fecking penny is gone on legal expenses. I know my father wanted us to have it and I will fight her and I told them so. And if there is nothing left at the end so be it, I know he loved us and what he intended.


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## nicole84

Thank you Thirsty. That gives me some peace of mind.


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## terrysgirl33

nicole84 said:


> When pressed on what was in my fathers bank accounts he was very vague, and said 'theres a few different bank accounts, I haven't totalled it all up', it is around such and such a figure. The figure is much lower than we all believed my father to have, as my father inherited the proceeds of another house. This is a nightmare and I haven't slept well with the worry. We have numerous reasons to believe my uncle is mishandling the estate. Can he spent money in my fathers accounts



Do you know if your father spent or gave away this money already?


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## Thirsty

Many of the answers to your questions might already be here.

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview


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## elcato

The accounts are frozen as long as the solicitor knows about them and can request same. Nowadays with online banking this can be bypassed but at least the records will show if anyone moved monet after date of death,


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## Grizzly

elcato said:


> The accounts are frozen as long as the solicitor knows about them and can request same. Nowadays with online banking this can be bypassed but at least the records will show if anyone moved monet after date of death,


  Unfortunately if nobody knows what accounts exist except the executor then this could be a problem and even then a lazy executor might miss an account or two. I certainly did not trust the executor looking after my father's will and I was proven right when I discovered papers that the executor had thrown in a bin.


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## nicole84

It again beggars the question, why on earth does there exist such a thing in law as executor and beneficiary?
It causes countless problems.

Why not make both the same person.


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## Thirsty

It really would be worth your while to educate yourself better in this area.

If you have 6, 8 or even 10 beneficiaries how do you imagine it would work? 

Being an executor requires actual (unpaid) *work*.


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## SPC100

How long was your dad in a relationship with his new partner? How long were they living together?


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## Vanessa

If you are so convinced there is skull duggery afoot then off you go to England and employ a solicitor to put a stop to it. Whatever funds were in your fathers account at time of death must be accounted for before going to probate. The solicitor will have got statements from the banks stating the balance. Of course it is possible for an executor to hide an account and perhaps there is an account where your father gave the executor the right to sign for withdrawals. Also any cash could disappear that way also.


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## nicole84

Thirsty said:


> It really would be worth your while to educate yourself better in this area.
> 
> If you have 6, 8 or even 10 beneficiaries how do you imagine it would work?
> 
> Being an executor requires actual (unpaid) *work*.


I'm thinking of it from his side too. He has no interest in it. He does not particularly want to do it, and it has already caused a rift.
My mother rang me yesterday saying she has not slept well for a week with the worry. I have not slept well myself. He doesn't want to do it, and we would love to look after our assets, that's why I wonder : couldn't the situation be easier. When it is over I will breathe a sigh of relief.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> He has now told me the delay in information is because fathers partner is considering contesting the will.
> At least I know.
> To be honest I dont care if she does. They were together a long time, but not married. I don't think she has any rights to it, and she will occur legal expenses.



Ah ha, first time you've told us that.  That they were together a long time.  She must be grieving.  And I bet she has some rights.  Nowadays even in Ireland living together gives you rights.

I note that you've decided to travel over, to speed things up.  Good luck with that. Not sure what that is going to achieve that a registered letter to the solicitor of the executor wouldn't achieve.


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## nicole84

Vanessa said:


> If you are so convinced there is skull duggery afoot then off you go to England and employ a solicitor to put a stop to it. Whatever funds were in your fathers account at time of death must be accounted for before going to probate. The solicitor will have got statements from the banks stating the balance. Of course it is possible for an executor to hide an account and perhaps there is an account where your father gave the executor the right to sign for withdrawals. Also any cash could disappear that way also.


We are going in April. It is the earliest date that the solicitor could meet us.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> Do you know how long on average probate takes? We have decided to go over and try and sort it out ourselves as otherwise I think it could drag on over a year



This is nothing in terms of a probate where there is property to be disposed of, bank accounts to be sorted, probate to be granted, beneficiaries to deal with.  Never mind a possible contestation.  When did your father die?


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> Ah ha, first time you've told us that.  That they were together a long time.  She must be grieving.  And I bet she has some rights.  Nowadays even in Ireland living together gives you rights.
> 
> I note that you've decided to travel over, to speed things up.  Good luck with that. Not sure what that is going to achieve that a registered letter to the solicitor of the executor wouldn't achieve.


What do you mean, 'aha the first time you've told us that'. I posted it the day that I heard it. That's quite a strange comment to make?


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> Major he didn't want to leave her any of it. The last time I was over in England he brought me to see our childhood house and said to me that he wanted to leave it to me and my brother. So I know that was his express wish.
> How I feel now is I don't care if she challenges it and every fecking penny is gone on legal expenses. I know my father wanted us to have it and I will fight her and I told them so. And if there is nothing left at the end so be it, I know he loved us and what he intended.



Oh dear, fighting talk.  Sad. And very unwise.  Never mind a foolish statement like not caring about every penny going on legal expenses.  Do you think your father would agree with you? To fight his long term partner?  Is this the right course of action. 

Is the animosity being driven by your mother?


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> Oh dear, fighting talk.  Sad. And very unwise.  Never mind a foolish statement like not caring about every penny going on legal expenses.  Do you think your father would agree with you? To fight his long term partner?  Is this the right course of action.
> 
> Is the animosity being driven by your mother?


Bronte I'm not sure why you are so insistent that his girlfriend should get a share.
If you are so interested in what my father would want, why don't you respect what he put in his will. They were his wishes.


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> Oh dear, fighting talk.  Sad. And very unwise.  Never mind a foolish statement like not caring about every penny going on legal expenses.  Do you think your father would agree with you? To fight his long term partner?  Is this the right course of action.
> 
> Is the animosity being driven by your mother?


Do you think its right to speak so harshly to someone who lost her father two months ago?I
He was with his girlfriend a long a time, I presume they talked about what would happen when one of them passed away. He had a long time to change his will to include her. He didn't. He specifies it is all to be given to me and my brother.
The last time I saw him, he brought me to our childhood house and told me he was leaving it to me and my brother. 
My brother has a disability and a carer. This would make a massive difference to his life.
That's why I was so upset when I heard she was thinking of challenging it, as I know what my father wanted.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> I'm thinking of it from his side too. He has no interest in it. He does not particularly want to do it, and it has already caused a rift.
> My mother rang me yesterday saying she has not slept well for a week with the worry. I have not slept well myself. He doesn't want to do it, and we would love to look after our assets, that's why I wonder : couldn't the situation be easier. When it is over I will breathe a sigh of relief.



Why is your mother worried, it's none of her business. 

As for your uncle, apart from the 10K which is totally wrong, maybe he's doing it, the onorous job of executor because that is your father's wish. As written in his will. You have an issue with your father's wishes because they don't suit you.  If I were your uncle, at this stage I'd say he's sorry he ever took the job on.


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## nicole84

CV


Bronte said:


> Why is your mother worried, it's none of her business.
> 
> As for your uncle, apart from the 10K which is totally wrong, maybe he's doing it, the onorous job of executor because that is your father's wish. As written in his will. You have an issue with your father's wishes because they don't suit you.  If I were your uncle, at this stage I'd say he's sorry he ever took the job on.


I see you're coming at this from your 'bitter executor ' side. You've stated before that you've been an executor and hated it, so maybe you should take that hat off before you comment biasedly on other peoples situations.


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## Early Riser

nicole84 said:


> Do you think its right to speak so harshly to someone who lost her father two months ago?



Nicole84 - I am sorry for your loss. Brief posts on message boards can often sound insensitive, particularly if we are already feeling emotionally distressed. However, I think the posters are all trying to be helpful. Your father stated his wishes in his will and he also appointed your uncle and aunt as executors - again, his wishes. It sounds like this is a nightmare situation for them now too. 

At the risk of also sounding insensitive and/or patronising may I suggest that the best thing you can do at this time is to look after yourself physically and emotionally ? This will involve stepping back a bit, at least for a time. It does sound as if there is a lot of anger as well as grief floating around within the family. High emotions and calm decisions generally do not go well together. If necessary, would you consider counselling or talking with your GP ? It might be money better spent in the short term than on instructing solicitors. Of course you have to keep an eye on your your own and your brother's interests as well, but one can complement the other.


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## nicole84

You also didn't comment on why you are adamant that his girlfriend is entitled to something, when he has expressed verbally and in his will to the contrary Bronte.


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## nicole84

Early Riser said:


> Nicole84 - I am sorry for your loss. Brief posts on message boards can often sound insensitive, particularly if we are already feeling emotionally distressed. However, I think the posters are all trying to be helpful. Your father stated his wishes in his will and he also appointed your uncle and aunt as executors - again, his wishes. It sounds like this is a nightmare situation for them now too.
> 
> At the risk of also sounding insensitive and/or patronising may I suggest that the best thing you can do at this time is to look after yourself physically and emotionally ? This will involve stepping back a bit, at least for a time. It does sound as if there is a lot of anger as well as grief floating around within the family. High emotions and calm decisions generally do not go well together. If necessary, would you consider counselling or talking with your GP ? It might be money better spent in the short term than on instructing solicitors. Of course you have to keep an eye on your your own and your brother's interests as well, but one can complement the other.


Thank you! A kind post on here makes all the difference. I felt in tears after some of them earlier today. 
I think I will go for a walk and cool down. It is a hard situation for everyone and none of us are looking forward to the meeting with the solicitor next month, all have to be present. But it will have to be done.


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## losttheplot

I think Bronte is saying if your father and his girlfriend were together long enough, she may have legal entitlements, similar to a spouse, regardless of what the will states. I don't know the laws in the UK, but check if long term partners have any rights.


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## nicole84

Its hard to put into words the feeling of someone thinking of challenging a will. It feels like them totally not caring about us.
That's why I said I'm beginning to not care about the outcome. I'm hurt she is thinking of doing it. But I feel no matter the outcome I know my father loved us and what he intended and that's more important to me than a year of fighting and stress.


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## Sophrosyne

Nicole,
My condolences on the death of your father.

I note that he died just two months ago per your post #72.

I also note in your original post that the house you and your brother inherited was rented.

Did your late father own more than one property?


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## nicole84

Sophrosyne said:


> Nicole,
> My condolences on the death of your father.
> 
> I note that he died just two months ago per your post #72.
> 
> I also note in your original post that the house you and your brother inherited was rented.
> 
> Did your late father own more than one property?


Thank you. No, he owned one. It was our childhood family home, and after my parents divorced he rented it out, and lived in a smaller rented home.


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## major

nicole84 said:


> Thank you. No, he owned one. It was our childhood family home, and after my parents divorced he rented it out, and lived in a smaller rented home.


I'm sure your mother has more rights to share in this house that your fathers girlfriend ,its a tough situation for all of ye alright


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## Bronte

[QUOT


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> Do you think its right to speak so harshly to someone who lost her father two months ago?I
> He was with his girlfriend a long a time, I presume they talked about what would happen when one of them passed away. He had a long time to change his will to include her. He didn't. He specifies it is all to be given to me and my brother.
> The last time I saw him, he brought me to our childhood house and told me he was leaving it to me and my brother.
> My brother has a disability and a carer. This would make a massive difference to his life.
> That's why I was so upset when I heard she was thinking of challenging it, as I know what my father wanted.



You never said he died so recently.  So I'm absolutely amazed that you are now in a hurry to have the will sorted out.  What do you expect people to achieve in 2 months.  Even in Ireland it can take months just to get the grant.  These are no easy matters.

As regards his partner, she is a person in her own right.  She may have entitlements.  It is not uncommon for people to inadvertantly leave someone out of their will, never getting around to changing it.  It's also been known for people to purposely leave their spouse out of their will, it was why in Ireland the Family Home Protection Act was brought in.  It's also why many countries have laws on protection of spouses and children.  In Ireland, children have no automatic right.  And times have moved on, and live in partners, which is so common nowadays, are recognised and given rights too.  In any case, the mere fact they lived together means you should give her respect surely.


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## Bronte

major said:


> I'm sure your mother has more rights to share in this house that your fathers girlfriend ,its a tough situation for all of ye alright



They are divorced.  That means the legal right share is forfeit.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> CV
> 
> I see you're coming at this from your 'bitter executor ' side. You've stated before that you've been an executor and hated it, so maybe you should take that hat off before you comment biasedly on other peoples situations.



I'm not a bit bitter.  I have no reason to be.  I actually got good news this week.  The contract is finally signed by the other side.  That took four months alone and siblings at me about what was going on (problem with planning causing problem with finance and a title issue).  That's apart from how long it was up for sale and much more.  But at least I don't feel any pressure on me, just to do the right thing as executor.  But I don't like the job.


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> You never said he died so recently.  So I'm absolutely amazed that you are now in a hurry to have the will sorted out.  What do you expect people to achieve in 2 months.  Even in Ireland it can take months just to get the grant.  These are no easy matters.
> 
> As regards his partner, she is a person in her own right.  She may have entitlements.  It is not uncommon for people to inadvertantly leave someone out of their will, never getting around to changing it.  It's also been known for people to purposely leave their spouse out of their will, it was why in Ireland the Family Home Protection Act was brought in.  It's also why many countries have laws on protection of spouses and children.  In Ireland, children have no automatic right.  And times have moved on, and live in partners, which is so common nowadays, are recognised and given rights too.  In any case, the mere fact they lived together means you should give her respect surely.


Im not sure why you seem to think it needs to take ages to sort it either! Since I have begun organising things two weeks ago I have achieved alot. I would like it finished by the end of this year. Talking to my uncle he said it would take over a year. We are all having a meeting next month to get our wishes across and to push it forward.


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> They are divorced.  That means the legal right share is forfeit.


My mother is not contesting the will, which she technically could, because she has our best interests at heart. I also don't think the long-term girlfriend has much legal rights either. I've been researching common law marriages in the UK


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## Bronte

Nicole what is the hurry.  It's only two months. I'm missing something.  It seems unduly hasty to me.  I can honestly say that neither I nor my siblings were over my mother's death for at least a year and one of us is still not over it a couple of years later.  You can't make serious decisions in that state of mind.  You have to let time for grief to work it's way through your body.  It's a slow process.  And I am sorry for your loss, it's a terrible thing to lose a parent.  I assumed from your initial post that the death had occured a long time ago and that the executor was dragging his heels.


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## Bronte

nicole84 said:


> My mother is not contesting the will, which she technically could, because she has our best interests at heart. I also don't think the long-term girlfriend has much legal rights either. I've been researching common law marriages in the UK



How could your mother contest the will? On what grounds?


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> How could your mother contest the will? On what grounds?


He did not pay any maintenance towards us as children.


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## nicole84

Bronte said:


> Nicole what is the hurry.  It's only two months. I'm missing something.  It seems unduly hasty to me.  I can honestly say that neither I nor my siblings were over my mother's death for at least a year and one of us is still not over it a couple of years later.  You can't make serious decisions in that state of mind.  You have to let time for grief to work it's way through your body.  It's a slow process.  And I am sorry for your loss, it's a terrible thing to lose a parent.  I assumed from your initial post that the death had occured a long time ago and that the executor was dragging his heels.


 Thank you. I feel I would have let it taken its natural course, until my uncle rang and pushily asked for 10k to be paid to him three times, that he has to spend alot of money, and now all of us are under the opinion that we want this to be sorted as soon as possible, before he spends it all. 
Six months is the average time for an estate to be administered in the UK.


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## nicole84

I know I am stressed, but I am trying to do the best for everyone, and act for my brother.


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## major

Usually houses are the first thing to go in a divorce settlement  I would have thought


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## Sophrosyne

nicole84 said:


> Thank you. No, he owned one. It was our childhood family home, and after my parents divorced he rented it out, and lived in a smaller rented home.



Well I think, as other posters have advised, that you should ask to view the property yourself. You would then be in a better position to assess what needs to be done.

It would be sensible to come to an agreement with the executor regarding the amount you are prepared to spend in order to get the property ready for sale.

Any expenses incurred by the executor in the course of administration would be deducted from the estate. 

The executor must keep proper accounts of all expenditure and produce them to you when required.


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## Marsha25

Who is to attend the meeting next month? Is your brother in a position to go? Unless your mother is speaking on his behalf I don't imagine she needs to be involved. She is not a beneficiary so surely has no right to get involved and may make matters worse if tensions are high. 
Bronte I would not imagine it to be too soon to sort this out. The sooner things are sorted the better. We have had a horrible 18 months trying to sort a will and thankfully it's now sorted. One beneficiary caused needless hassle. The stress of it dragging out was awful. So I would advise getting things in order asap and if the partner contests then that will have to be dealt with, but you don't want to be still stressing over this in a couple of years.


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## Vanessa

nicole84 said:


> He did not pay any maintenance towards us as children.


Where are you getting your legal advice? Lionel Hutz?
Your mother and father are divorced. That was the time to sort any maintenance issues. Your fathers estate is none of her business now. The only people who should be involved here are the beneficiaries and executors. The mother and partner are not mentioned and any gold digging claims by them should be resisted


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## nicole84

major said:


> Usually houses are the first thing to go in a divorce settlement  I would have thought


Major, he bought out my mothers share at the time of divorce .
Sophrysyne, Marsha and Vanessa, thank you very much. Very useful advice.


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## losttheplot

Nicole, the best advice you can take is from a solicitor in the UK who deals with inheritance and wills. You'll get plenty of opinions here, some maybe correct but others will be based on emotions and what people see on TV, so take proper legal advice. Wills can be messy affairs. The fact that your father had a relationship with his partner indicates she must have meant something to him and she may feel he would have wanted her to have something. She may have been dependent on him, we don't know the full story and it's possible you may not know the full story either. A solicitor should be able to advise if the claim has any merit and how likely it would be to succeed.

If your uncle really doesn't want to be the executor, suggest to him that he hand the task over to a solicitor. As Executor, I believe he would be liable personally if he were to mess up. He may feel obliged to do it and it may come as a relief to him if you suggest he could hand it over.


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