# Cheques dishonoured by Halifax due to signatures not matching



## desperatedan (27 Sep 2008)

Hi Folks

I moved to Halifax Bank last year to avail of their better Current Account, but I am now feeling that this was a bad decision.

As per the thread title, I have been severely embarrassed by this bank recently, whereby they have taken it upon themselves to "dishonour" two cheques written by me to the same payee. 

There were and are sufficient funds in my account to meet these cheques.

The second one was a reissued cheque for the same service as that dishonoured in the first place.

I am totally distraught, as the person to whom the cheques has done a job for me, and deserves to be paid. The funds are in my account.

The reason they say they bounced the first cheque was because they say the signature did not match that which they have on file. They say this is for my own security, and to an extent can see their point.

But I have just discovered that the second cheque has again been "dishonoured", to my total amazement, annoyance and embarrassment. I do not know why this is, as I can't contact them until Monday.

Can I just reiterate, there are sufficient funds to meet this cheque, and I am not relying on an overdraft.

Any advice would be genuinely appreciated.

I am indeed Desperate Dan.


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## ClubMan (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Perhaps your signature on file simply does not match your signature as you sign it today?


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## desperatedan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



ClubMan said:


> Perhaps your signature on file simply does not match your signature as you sign it today?



I did ask for advice, and perhaps this is meant as such. 

But it will not help me when I have to face a person, for the second time in a two-week period, to ask him to either represent the cheque, or accept another cheque from me. 

In the circumstances, would you accept a cheque for a third time? Or would you feel this guy has no money to pay me?

Just to reiterate, I already have lodged a complaint on foot of the first instance, and Halifax know that I wish to have funds, as shown on my legitimate cheque, paid to the person named on my cheque.

What am I supposed to do, contact this bank each time I write a cheque, advising them of the fact?


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## markpb (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Find out why the second cheque bounced, like Clubman says, it's probably for the same reason. In the meantime, get the recepients bank details and transfer the money to him.


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## 10romans (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Why did they not phone you!.  If you have the money in your account and you have written a cheque to the same payee twice it seems ridiculous that they would not phone you.   Change banks!   

I wonder are they minding their own balance more than yours?


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## desperatedan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



10romans said:


> Why did they not phone you!.  If you have the money in your account and you have written a cheque to the same payee twice it seems ridiculous that they would not phone you.   Change banks!
> 
> I wonder are they minding their own balance more than yours?



Thanks _10romans_. It certainly gives one reason to be suspicious. 

Since I moved to Halifax a year ago, I have written only 9 cheques, with no problems until now. This was a particularly large amount, several thousand €'s, so one would be suspicious.

In their apology e-mail response to my complaint for the first occasion, they claim they called my mobile number at 16.30 on the evening they dishonoured the cheque.

I was on my way home from work at that time, driving. There was a private call, with no number displayed, at that time, when I checked my "missed calls".

No voice message was left for me to contact the bank. No SMS message was sent. Also, they have my e-mail address, and I got no e-mail.

I can find no record for the second occasion at all, but I have to await their reply to my second complaint e-mail to find out if they tried to contact me on the second occasion. I have asked for this to be escalated to a Senior Cust Relations Manager, as per their procedure.

My real dilemma now is how to face a person, who has had great patience to date, and who may be relying on this money to pay staff, stay in business, etc.

I have demanded that the Bank contact him, I have given them his number in my second complaint e-mail, and reach an accomodation with him which makes it abundantly clear that there is no problem with my account.

I am concerned regarding my own good name also, as the impression could easily be given that I am an unreliable payer.

I will report back on whatever happens.


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## rmelly (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

OP, can you confirm whether you have actually addressed the issue of the signature? It's not clear that you have, so if not, why not?

Would it not make sense on your part to replace the sample signature they have on file to prevent this being an issue?


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## ajapale (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Why dont you pay with a bank draft while you are waiting to resolve the issue with the cheques?


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## desperatedan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



ajapale said:


> Why dont you pay with a bank draft while you are waiting to resolve the issue with the cheques?



I will either pay the person in question by Draft or in Cash, this is priority number 1.

However, I am going to insist that the bank bear the cost of the draft if this is the way I go.

I am reluctant to withdraw so much money, for obvious reasons. This is the reason cheques were invented, is it not. However, I will if I have no other alternative, as this person must be paid by Monday if at all possible. This will also mean going on a journey of several miles to his place of business carrying a lot of dosh.

I will go as far as I have to with respect to this Bank dishonouring my legitimate cheques.

As for the signiture issue, I can't understand it. 

I have only ever issued 9 cheques with Halifax. Previously, with AIB for around 25 years, I never as much had one bounced cheque for any reason, let alone signature.

I am now very sorry that I switched, as the only reason was AIB did not pay as much interest on Current Account balances.


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## DavyJones (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

got a cheque from a client once and when I went to the bank they could not cash it because of the signature. Although to be fair to the bank (AIB) they did ring the account holder and they  confirmed that they issued cheque. It was cashed then.
 I would change bank.


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## desperatedan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



DavyJones said:


> got a cheque from a client once and when I went to the bank they could not cash it because of the signature. Although to be fair to the bank (AIB) they did ring the account holder and they  confirmed that they issued cheque. It was cashed then.
> I would change bank.



Hi DavyJones

That is exactly the reaction I would have expected from the Bank (Halifax).

They seem to be content to bounce two cheques from me to the same payee, without ever having spoken to me. 

In fact the second cheque was bounced even though I had gone through their complaints procedure and I have a complaint ref number, and I told them I would be issuing another cheque to pay the person.

I will be moving Bank.


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## z103 (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Why can't you just transfer the funds via a credit transfer?
Cheques are old hat.


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## desperatedan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



leghorn said:


> Why can't you just transfer the funds via a credit transfer?
> Cheques are old hat.



Thanks very much for the helpful advice, that is another option I will persue with the person who did the job for me initially, and who requested payment by cheque, which is refreshing in the line of business, where some would request payment "in cash".

But this really does not help me explain why two cheques written by me in good faith to this person have been bounced by my Bank, with all the ensuing embarrassment and hassle this has caused.


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## Bubbly Scot (29 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

As far as I am aware, the bank will mark the cheque in some way. If there are insufficient funds it's usually stamped "refer to drawer" or words to that effect, if there is a different problem it will be stamped differently. 

Take a look here [broken link removed]

Hope that helps spare your blushes.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Dan

You seem to resent the advice being given to you by two posters as unhelpful.

You seem to think that the bank should not be comparing signatures on file with the signatures on the actual cheques. 

The mistake is primarily yours. 

After the first incident, did you compare the signature on the cheque with the signature on file in the bank? 

After the first problem, you should have got a bank draft to ensure that it did not happen again. Or alternatively, you should have done a credit transfer. 

I would not like to see your reaction if you saw many thousands withdrawn from your bank on a forged cheque. 

A bank is obliged to bounce a cheque when the signatures don't match. It was nice of them to call you, but if they did not get you, what can they do. Honour the cheque and hope for the best? Do you really expect them to put a note on your account - don't bounce any cheques from this guy because his signature is variable? 

Make a formal complaint if you like. You will not be happy with their response. Then complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman. I would imagine that they will tell you to cop onto yourself.

Brendan


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## desperatedan (29 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



Bubbly Scot said:


> As far as I am aware, the bank will mark the cheque in some way. If there are insufficient funds it's usually stamped "refer to drawer" or words to that effect, if there is a different problem it will be stamped differently.
> 
> Take a look here [broken link removed]
> 
> Hope that helps spare your blushes.



Hi Bubbly Scot.

Can I just say that your link has been the best advice I have received here, thank you so much for it.

Definitely the Bank told me on the first occasion the problem was "not usual signature", so it is ominous to see from your link that this "usually indicates a forgery" and that the payee should "Contact the drawer (issuer) first - then contact the police."

Luckily, as I keep an eye on my account on-line, I picked up on the dishonour before my client did, so I contacted him and he agreed to accept a second cheque. 

I have made a formal complaint to Halifax regarding the second instance, and this has been escalated to a senior person. 

It remains to be seen whether I will be happy or not with the response.

BTW, I have now arranged a direct electronic payment to my client, who again has been very understanding of my predicament, so blushes have been spared.


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## ubiquitous (29 Sep 2008)

Very simple solution, move back to your old bank. More expensive perhaps but at least you should avoid this sort of messing, which presumably didn't happen previously?


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## desperatedan (29 Sep 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



Brendan said:


> Dan
> 
> You seem to resent the advice being given to you by two posters as unhelpful.
> Not at all, I do not know which posters you are referring to. I have welcomed all advice given, as I welcome yours.​
> ...



Brendan

I am happy now that my client has been paid, which was my first priority.

I accept that I could have handled the situation differently after the initial problem, but hindsight is a great thing.

I hope you appreciate my comments above, which are genuine and not meant to be critical. 

I really do appreciate all the advice given here, which I have taken on board, and have acted upon.

Thanks for all help folks.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Sep 2008)

The first mistake you made is that the signature on your cheque does not appear to match the signature on the bank's records.  I would very much doubt that Halifax are just bouncing your cheques for the craic.

The second mistake that you made is that you did not get a draft to pay your supplier.

The third mistake is that you repeated the first mistake. 

But you are trying to blame Halifax for all this. I really don't think it's their fault at all. Now if the two signatures do match, then you have cause for complaint. 

Brendan


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## desperatedan (29 Sep 2008)

Brendan said:


> The first mistake you made is that the signature on your cheque does not appear to match the signature on the bank's records.  I would very much doubt that Halifax are just bouncing your cheques for the craic.
> 
> The second mistake that you made is that you did not get a draft to pay your supplier.
> 
> ...



Brendan

I know that my point of view is entirely subjective, as I am directly involved in what has been a genuinely traumatic series of events. 

This is a first for me, and I have no explanation as to why Halifax have suddenly deemed my signature to differ from what they have on file, that is a matter for further investigation. 

As I have only ever written 9 cheques prior to this, with no problems, I do think there is a question mark over Halifax's procedures at the very least. 

From my point of view, there is no mistake on my side. 

Is it not possible, in your view, that a Bank can make a mistake?

Surely recent events would tend to support my point of view?

You have entirely prejudged the issue on the Bank's side, even to the extent of their attempt to contact me, one phone-call, made during my home-bound commute, with no voice message, text or e-mail follow-up.

I have already conceded that I could have handled the payment to my client in a different manner, but we all must learn lessons from experience.

I certainly appreciate advice, but I don't appreciate the matter being pre-judged in the manner you have just done.

There is no point in being found innocent, after the hanging has already taken place.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Sep 2008)

You have ranted and raved about the cheek of Halifax rejecting your cheques because the signatures did not match. 

There are two possibilities

1) The signatures match and they made a mistake

2) The signatures don't match and they correctly bounced the cheque. 

You have decided that it is 1) 

I will allow that 1) is possible, but I think 2) is far more likely. 

By deciding it was 1) and not allowing for 2) you repeated the mistake. 

Halifax may be at fault, but it is far more likely to be your error.

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Sep 2008)

I see that you have had problems with banks and cheques before. 

You really should try to move away from using cheques. 

Brendan


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## desperatedan (30 Sep 2008)

Brendan said:


> I see that you have had problems with banks and cheques before.
> 
> You really should try to move away from using cheques.
> 
> Brendan



Brendan

I see you are doing your research.

For your info, and for the info of the Board, as I did promise to report back on the case you have linked, I did indeed take a complaint to the FSOB regarding Ulster Bank's handling of my Mortgage Account after switching to Halifax. 

This was settled in my favour, and I was paid a sum of money by Ulster Bank by way of compensation, which was a rather satisfactory outcome, IMHO.

Perhaps you feel that I should not have pursued Ulster Bank regarding their pretty dire Customer Relations, and perhaps I should have allowed them to keep the extra money they took from my account in error, but I certainly was not about to do that.

I also feel that you should follow your own , rather than personally abusing posters with phrases such as



> You have ranted and raved about the cheek of Halifax rejecting your cheques because the signatures did not match.


.


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## nlgbbbblth (1 Oct 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



desperatedan said:


> I am now very sorry that I switched, as the only reason was AIB did not pay as much interest on Current Account balances.


 
Changing banks after 25 years over a trivial issue such as the interest paid on current accounts is pretty drastic. It also demonstrates a lack of loyalty on your part - assuming that you had been well treated by AIB in the past.

Quality of service is paramount, the cheapest price is not always the best option. 
I always tell customers this; many of them do not listen and frequently end up regretting their decisions.


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## bond-007 (1 Oct 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*

Do banks routinely check signatures on cheques? Surely it would be a labour intensive process?


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## Mpsox (1 Oct 2008)

*Re: Cheques dishonoured by Halifax bank*



bond-007 said:


> Do banks routinely check signatures on cheques? Surely it would be a labour intensive process?


 
in theory banks should check all signatures, in practise, they tend to set a value threshold and check above that. 

In this case, the bank were technically correct in bouncing the 2 cheques and banks are getting stricter on checking and bouncing such cheques due to the rise in attempted frauds relating to cheques.


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## Celtwytch (1 Oct 2008)

This thread is turning into a slagging match.  Can it please be closed???


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## csirl (1 Oct 2008)

> Do banks routinely check signatures on cheques? Surely it would be a labour intensive process?


 
I know someone who worked as a cheque clearer. Cheque is scanned in branch and image transmitted offsite to a cheque clearing office who see it on a PC screen beside a scanned copy of the sample signature. These people can do one every few seconds. Obviously any that look strange are examined in more detail.


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## ClubMan (1 Oct 2008)

Celtwytch said:


> This thread is turning into a slagging match.


I don't see how/where.


> Can it please be closed???


No need yet as far as I can see.


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## Brendan Burgess (1 Oct 2008)

Celtwytch said:


> This thread is turning into a slagging match. Can it please be closed???


 
Oh no it's not!


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## Gulliver (1 Oct 2008)

Halifax is the newest member (couple of years) of the cheque clearing system and has new systems and procedures.  It has low cheque volumes.  I would be very surprised if a cheque was dishonoured due to signatures not matching without good reason.


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