# Riddle: brothers and sisters I have none but this mans father is my fathers son.



## nutty nut

Just recently a few of us agreed to disagree (in the pub actually) on the answer to a riddle. Its an old one which Im sure some of you have heard before but I would appreciate your answers.

A man picks up a photo and looking at it he says - brothers and sisters I have none but this mans father is my fathers son. 

Who is in the photo?


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

himself


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Nope - the picture is of his own son.


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## nutty nut

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> himself


That was one of the answers on the night but not the one I think it is.


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## nutty nut

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ClubMan said:


> Nope - the picture is of his own son.


What are ye havin?


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## stir crazy

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Just separate it into 2 halves


When I have no siblings; my fathers son = me  

So this mans father  = me


Hence he was talking about his son who is a man.


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## Cahir

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Definitely his son.


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Lets say my name is Pat & my fathers name is Tony.

I am looking at a picture of myself. I say to others then that this mans father (Pats Father Tony -my father in other words), is my fathers son (Tony's son Pat - which is me), because I have no siblings.

So the person is looking at a picture of himself.

ninsaga (or Pat in this case)


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## Cahir

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Say it's Pats son Bob in the picture.

Pat says: Bobs father (Pat-me) is my fathers (Tony) son (Pat)


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## Cahir

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> Lets say my name is Pat & my fathers name is Tony.
> 
> I am looking at a picture of myself. I say to others then that this mans father (Pats Father *Tony -my father *in other words), *is my fathers son *(Tony's son Pat - which is me), because I have no siblings.
> 
> So the person is looking at a picture of himself.
> 
> ninsaga (or Pat in this case)



You're saying that "My Father (Tony) is my fathers (Tony) son"  - that can't be possible.


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## Caveat

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

 Edit: Oops! changed my mind 

He's looking at his own son.


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## LexLuthor

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Ah this old chestnut. Its being resurfacing for years and I've never ever heard anyone being convinced by another party that their answer is wrong. 
So just to be different I'm not saying what my answer is!

(post crossed with Caveat's - I stand corrected!)


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## Purple

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



LexLuthor said:


> Ah this old chestnut. Its being resurfacing for years and I've never ever heard anyone being convinced by another party that their answer is wrong.
> So just to be different I'm not saying what my answer is!
> 
> (post crossed with Caveat's - I stand corrected!)



It has to be his son. As Cahir pointed out he can't be his own father.


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## Simeon

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



Cahir said:


> You're saying that "My Father (Tony) is my fathers (Tony) son"  - that can't be possible.


I'm not so sure ...... ever heard of the song "I'm My Own Grandpa" by Willie Nelson (and a host of others)? Either someone has a serious disorder here or it's hero-worship of the ego gone ape. On a more serious note ....... you're looking into the crib at your son, you don't have any siblings. your son's father (you) is your father's son (you). But the question being asked is ..... who is in the photo/crib! Not you but your son. QED


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## Caveat

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



Purple said:


> It has to be his son. As Cahir pointed out he can't be his own father.


 
Also, why have the preamble "brother and sisters I have none" if it wasn't relevant? 

It's relevant because if he *did* have a brother then that could also be the answer - in the sense that it opens up the nephew aspect.


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## Purple

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



Caveat said:


> Also, why have the preamble "brother and sisters I have none" if it wasn't relevant?
> 
> It's relevant because if he *did* have a brother then that could also be the answer - in the sense that it opens up the nephew aspect.


 Exactly.
Now stop taking this thread seriously in case someone see you.


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## swordshead

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Definitely its his son in the photo!

The "mans father" is himself, so the person in the photo hes lookin at is his son!


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> himself


Only if he's a tripartite god.


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## redstar

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Hmm, I still think its himself.

This bit is the key ..

_"... is my fathers son."_

Lets say the observers father is 'Jack'.
The observer is 'Tom'

The person-in-the-picture has a father who is the son of 'Jack'. ie himself, 'Tom'.


Now where's the solpadine ..


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## redstar

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Actually ... it _is_ his son ... the solpadine worked !!

The pictured guy has a father who is the son of my father  'me'. So it must be son of 'me'.


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## Purple

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



redstar said:


> Actually ... it _is_ his son ... the solpadine worked !!
> 
> The pictured guy has a father who is the son of my father  'me'. So it must be son of 'me'.


At last!!!


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## Simeon

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Perhaps the fellow in the photo was called Chicory. Master Chicory Tip. All together now "Son of my father. Moulded, I was folded, I was perform picked"


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Can we go onto  now _Bunny_?


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## Seagull

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



redstar said:


> Actually ... it _is_ his son ... the solpadine worked !!
> 
> The pictured guy has a father who is the son of my father 'me'. So it must be son of 'me'.


Unless it's somewhere in the deep south, in which case it's anyone's guess, up to and including the dog.


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## Purple

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ClubMan said:


> Can we go onto  now _Bunny_?



Might I suggest that you have too much time on your hands?


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



Purple said:


> Might I suggest that you have too much time on your hands?


You hum it - _Norman _will play something else altogether!


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

eh - no - he is looking at a photo of himself

another way....... 

Pat is looking at a picture of Pat
My father is Tony
See this man in the photo Pat - his father is Tony
I am my fathers son - the man in the photo is my fathers son -so man in photo is Pat (himself)


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## Seagull

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> eh - no - he is looking at a photo of himself
> 
> another way.......
> 
> Pat is looking at a picture of Pat
> My father is Tony
> See this man in the photo Pat - his father is Tony
> I am my fathers son - the man in the photo is my fathers son -so man in photo is Pat (himself)


 
You've skipped a bit - This man's *Father*. It's the father of the man in the photo who is your father's son.


		Code:
	

    This man's father = My father's son
                        My father's son = me.
==> This man's father = me
==> This man = my son


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> eh - no - he is looking at a photo of himself
> 
> another way.......
> 
> Pat is looking at a picture of Pat
> My father is Tony
> See this man in the photo Pat - his father is Tony
> I am my fathers son - the man in the photo is my fathers son -so man in photo is Pat (himself)


Fine - except that has nothing to do with the original riddle:

_ Brothers and sisters have I none,
but this man's father is my father's son.

_ X is the man looking at the picture.
Y is his father.
Z is the man in the picture.

Z's father is Y's son.
X is Y's only child.
So X is Z's father or Z is X's son.

But it's easier to cheat... 

http://www.geocities.com/oosterwal/puzzle/dadsona.htm

_Post crossed with Seagull's._


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

A= GrandFather
B =Father
C= Son

Generation is A->B->C

There is a picture of B in the photo. 
This mans father = A (B's father is A)
My fathers son = B (A's son is B)

(C is down the pub skullin' pints - which is where I think I'll end up after this)...... did someone mention they had solpadine earlier !


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## z107

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Let's get stuck into some PRSI calculations!


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Imagine if we were all drunk? We'd get hours more fun out of this. In fact - why imagine! BYE.


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## nutty nut

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

This is as good as it was in the pub except quieter


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

Ok Ok Ok - enough of the hard stuff, I want to chill out and relax a bit. Am just about to get stuck into a bit of quantum physics there (jeez I really look forward to Thursday nights!).... I've a little teaser there for ya though if you have 2-3 minutes to spare - before yez all go out and get wasted..... have fun...

Planets move in ellipses with the Sun at one focus. Ellipses can be described in terms of their semi-major axis, a, (basically the longest radius) and their eccentricity (basically how squashed the ellipse is: e=0 is a circle, a fully squashed ellipse looks like a line and has e=1).

r=a(1-e2)/(1+e cos()); rmin= a(1-e); rmax=a(1+e)

, the polar angle from closest approach is given the odd name: true anomaly. The timing of the motion (i.e., when the planet or electron has a particular ) is a bit complex. The game is to express the true anomaly () in terms of the eccentric anomaly (u) and then find an expression relating time and the eccentric anomaly.

Time starts now, you have 3 minutes.


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## ninsaga

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



nutty nut said:


> This is as good as it was in the pub except quieter



I propose that nutty nut is banned from this forum for giving me a headache today.


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## stir crazy

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*

wow I cant believe people have been struggling with this problem all day.


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## Vanilla

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> Ok Ok Ok - enough of the hard stuff, I want to chill out and relax a bit. Am just about to get stuck into a bit of quantum physics there (jeez I really look forward to Thursday nights!).... I've a little teaser there for ya though if you have 2-3 minutes to spare - before yez all go out and get wasted..... have fun...
> 
> Planets move in ellipses with the Sun at one focus. Ellipses can be described in terms of their semi-major axis, a, (basically the longest radius) and their eccentricity (basically how squashed the ellipse is: e=0 is a circle, a fully squashed ellipse looks like a line and has e=1).
> 
> r=a(1-e2)/(1+e cos()); rmin= a(1-e); rmax=a(1+e)
> 
> , the polar angle from closest approach is given the odd name: true anomaly. The timing of the motion (i.e., when the planet or electron has a particular ) is a bit complex. The game is to express the true anomaly () in terms of the eccentric anomaly (u) and then find an expression relating time and the eccentric anomaly.
> 
> Time starts now, you have 3 minutes.


 
The answer is Fruit Pudding, I think you'll find.


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## ClubMan

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> Ok Ok Ok - enough of the hard stuff, I want to chill out and relax a bit. Am just about to get stuck into a bit of quantum physics there (jeez I really look forward to Thursday nights!).... I've a little teaser there for ya though if you have 2-3 minutes to spare - before yez all go out and get wasted..... have fun...
> 
> Planets move in ellipses with the Sun at one focus. Ellipses can be described in terms of their semi-major axis, a, (basically the longest radius) and their eccentricity (basically how squashed the ellipse is: e=0 is a circle, a fully squashed ellipse looks like a line and has e=1).
> 
> r=a(1-e2)/(1+e cos()); rmin= a(1-e); rmax=a(1+e)
> 
> , the polar angle from closest approach is given the odd name: true anomaly. The timing of the motion (i.e., when the planet or electron has a particular ) is a bit complex. The game is to express the true anomaly () in terms of the eccentric anomaly (u) and then find an expression relating time and the eccentric anomaly.
> 
> Time starts now, you have 3 minutes.


This is the tenpenny question and _Norman _is in the background playing _Also sprach Zarathustra _by _Richard Strauss _in a bossa nova tempo. Stop the lights!


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## nutty nut

*Re: Settle an argument on a riddle*



ninsaga said:


> I propose that nutty nut is banned from this forum for giving me a headache today.


I'll second that after reading the responses


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