# Questions relating to UK Bankruptcy



## maoynam

1. How long do you have your COMI set up in the UK before you can present/submit a petition, 6months or 3months?
Some people mentioned coming back home to Ireland 3months after the court hearing.????

2. All of the debts are in my name only. I'm married for the last twelve months. We've no joint bank accounts, etc. Is there any risk of liability to my wife?

3. I'm studying a third level degree course online. The course is based from an Irish Institute of Technology. This costs money to do.
Will it have an impact on the legitimacy of my COMI in the UK even though I'll be working over there?
Could the college fees/expenses be submitted as reasonable living expenses?

4. Do I need an Irish accountant to do out my statement of affairs or is this done by the person you get to put you through the bankruptcy??

5. Do you get a letter from the official receiver stating that your discharge period has ended?

6. Do you have to provide actual receipts to prove your costs of living or will withdrawals on bank statements by sufficient?

7. Is there the same stigma attached to UK bankruptcy as Irish bankruptcy? Are there statistics out there that prove it affects job applications?

8. Do bank accounts in Ireland have to be closed, or can they be left open with nothing in them?

9. I have 3 fire-arms. They're not that valuable really, average of €350-€400 each. Would I get away without disclosing them? If I did disclose them would the receiver want them or would it be too much hassle for them to be messing with licences abroad?


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## Luternau

You need to read the threads here yourself-many of these questions have been answered already.
You need to be in the uk approximately 3mths to establish a COMI. I don't know how the college course affects matters, but as it's online-you may as well be from the USA and a student of the college.

You don't give details of your debt etc-perhaps you should. Maybe a uk bankruptcy is not in your best interests / only option.


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## Steve Thatcher

Hi Poster,

I have answered many of these questions in this forum.

Here are the answers you seek.

1. I would not take a person through the bankruptcy process unless they had been in the Uk for 5 months. You have a right to present a petition after 3 months, but that is not the same as having done enough to convince a court or the OR that you had moved your comi. I know this because I am in court every week on these cases.

2. No

3. No effect on your comi, and yes these are legitimate expenses.

4. if you choose someone to help you through the process they should as part of their fee do all your documents and attend court with you. 

5. No no one tells you you are discharged, it simply happens by effluxion of time. You may after the event ask the court for a certificate of discharge. This costs about £70.

6. A daily use of a bank account would be sufficient. I suggest opening a Barclay's bank account as it will stay open after the bankruptcy.

7.No stigma, and no stats

8.I suuggest you close them as it helps show your comi is now in  the UK.

9. You would not need to disclose these are they are not valuable

Steve Thatcher
www.irishbankruptuk.ie


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## Reacher

Steve - how significant is the "daily use of the bank card " I have heard you refer to this a few times but isn't everyone's spending habits different ? Would it be considered unusual that someone may make a few card purchases maybe a big shop at the weekend and use cash during the week ?


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## Steve Thatcher

Reacher said:


> Steve - how significant is the "daily use of the bank card " I have heard you refer to this a few times but isn't everyone's spending habits different ? Would it be considered unusual that someone may make a few card purchases maybe a big shop at the weekend and use cash during the week ?



Yes of course, what I am trying to get across is that if you use it every day it proves you have been in the UK. 
I am trying to help people avoid the accusation that whilst they say they have been here, they are accused of actually being elsewhere, because their expenditure patterns show big gaps without anything registering from the bank account.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## no_moolah

Hi Steve

I have a question about UK bankruptcy - if a person were to go over to the UK and rent a room in a house, does it matter if the utility bills are not in their name? 

Also if there is an unco-operative co-owner on the mortgage that is being wiped out, do they receive notice of the bankruptcy also?

Many thanks

NM


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## Steve Thatcher

no_moolah said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> I have a question about UK bankruptcy - if a person were to go over to the UK and rent a room in a house, does it matter if the utility bills are not in their name?
> 
> Also if there is an unco-operative co-owner on the mortgage that is being wiped out, do they receive notice of the bankruptcy also?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> NM



No rent a room and prove you pay for it, get a job and have your wages going thru the bank account with your daily wages. That will be enough.

The bankruptcy will not be known about by your ex partner until after the order is made.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## no_moolah

Steve Thatcher said:


> No rent a room and prove you pay for it, get a job and have your wages going thru the bank account with your daily wages. That will be enough.
> 
> The bankruptcy will not be known about by your ex partner until after the order is made.
> 
> Steve Thatcher


 

Thanks Steve - the ex partner will receive a notification after the order is made is that correct?


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## newlife

Hi Steve,

Can you be self employed and work for yourself?


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## Steve Thatcher

newlife said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Can you be self employed and work for yourself?



yes and where you work is where your comi is. I have plenty who come over here and set up as self employed

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## no_moolah

Does anyone know what the situation is re: the nil tax code that applies after you're declared bankrupt? 

I have read conflicting information about this but from what i can gather - you don't pay any tax to the revenue during the 12 months you are bankrupt but the money you would have paid to them goes to the OR to be distributed amongst creditors. Is this correct?

Also is this applied to everyone who is bankrupt? or only certain cases?


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## Steve Thatcher

no_moolah said:


> Does anyone know what the situation is re: the nil tax code that applies after you're declared bankrupt?
> 
> I have read conflicting information about this but from what i can gather - you don't pay any tax to the revenue during the 12 months you are bankrupt but the money you would have paid to them goes to the OR to be distributed amongst creditors. Is this correct?
> 
> Also is this applied to everyone who is bankrupt? or only certain cases?



It is for the OR to implement. it seems he will only do it if it is worth his while. It is of no consequence to the bankrupt. It also only happens until the end of the tax year. So if you are bankrupt in October, it lasts until the next April

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## no_moolah

Steve Thatcher said:


> It is for the OR to implement. it seems he will only do it if it is worth his while. It is of no consequence to the bankrupt. It also only happens until the end of the tax year. So if you are bankrupt in October, it lasts until the next April
> 
> Steve Thatcher


 
Again - thanks for your help


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## Notsureatall

Hi -have a few questions on uk bankruptcy as my current bankruptcy solicitor is hard to talk to and I really don't know if the advice is correct. I bought an apt to live in during the boom in Ireland and am about 180k in neg equity. The apt is rented out for the last year(I moved in with my partner) and I'm living on that money. I signed a rent agreement in uk in feb and was over and back but only actually fully moved over here in June. Bank has sent lots of threatening court action letters to my irish apt address so my questions are 
1. Should I answer the bank, send back keys and let them know I've left ireland (my solicitor has told me to ignore all letters/phone calls and keep the rent going,I really don't know if this is right and stressing about this every day. 

2.how long before I can apply for bankruptcy in uk ie should I use feb or June 

I really just want to start a new life but for anyone thinking about going down this route,just rem it really isn't easy(nor should it be I guess)!


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## JayPee

Hi Notureatall,

on point 1. whether this is right or not, time will tell, but I have been given the same info, don't engage and keep payments comming in should I go down the bankruptcy route. The only difference is I would be putting the properties up for sale beforehand as I have been advised by many that this is the better option. I have also been told that you do not advise creditors untill your comi is established.
2.Surelly your solicitor should steer you right on this one, it really depends on what evidence you have gathered that establishes the comi.Therefore if your use of bank card, invoices of all types, proof of bills and all the other stuff that shows you actually live there can be shown back untill Feb then you should be good to go, but I would be wary of the fact that you could also be showing proof that you actually lived in Ireland after that date.
But as I said, this is all based on info given to me from 'the professionals' and time will tell.


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## Notsureatall

Thanks jaypee really appreciate your reply. There seems to be so much confliciting advice on the net but maybe it all depends on your individual circumstances. 
I just couldn't bare to have gone through all this for it to all fail at the bankruptcy hearing so maybe ill hold out for another few months just to be 100% sure. 
Thanks


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## DonJuan30

Notsureatall, a very important part of the process is to let your creditors know your UK address before you petition for bankruptcy. I let mine know after a few months. It allowed them to send their threatening letters to me here but it made no difference as I never responded to any of them or took their calls. They didnt do anything to stop me going bankrupt - having been in your shoes i know the worry about that! When it came to the court date I was able to produce evidence to the judge that my creditors knew where I resided. Along with having bank acct statements showing me using my card in UK banklinks, my contract of employment, salary receipts and a copy of my lease were the main items the judge used to get comfortable that my comi was in the UK. Hope that helps. If you can afford it I would suggest you compile a list of your questions and meet with a good lawyer for an hour. I used one of the frequent posters on here (initials S.T.!!) and a) it armed me with the facts and b)it gave me great peace of mind.


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## Notsureatall

Hi dj30

Thanks for the reply.Thing is I've already signed up to an "expert" solicitor(got me to sign an agreement at the first meeting which i stupidly did) but he has told me not to contact the bank at all. he doesn't reply to emails for 4-5 days and only when I send a reminder and basically just contacts me for payment. I so regret not hiring s.t as his posts are excellent. I have all other things to prove my comi but this is the one sticking point -whether or not to give bank my address.


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## DonJuan30

When is he advising you to contact the bank? a few weeks before you go to court or not at all? You absolutely 100% have to let them know your uk address before you go to court or the judge will reject your application. If your adviser is not telling you this he is not an expert. I was anxious about letting mine know my uk address as I felt for certain they would put 2+2 together and figure out I was thereto go bankrupt. It didn't make a jot of difference! They just sent the same old standard letters. It was 4-5 months after I notified them that I went to court.  There is no major harm in letting them know your uk address. In fact one lawyer I went to tells his clients to let the Irish banks know their uk address as soon as they move there. 

I would question my expert very very strongly on his reasons for not notifying them if I were you.


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## Bronte

Notsureatall said:


> Hi dj30
> 
> Thanks for the reply.Thing is I've already signed up to an "expert" solicitor(got me to sign an agreement at the first meeting which i stupidly did) but he has told me not to contact the bank at all. he doesn't reply to emails for 4-5 days and only when I send a reminder and basically just contacts me for payment.


 
Could I ask you the fees he quoted you?  Also it might be an idea to see if you can get our of this contract if you are not happy with the service.  What payments have you had to make so far?  How did you find this expert?


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## Notsureatall

@dj30 - As far as I can tell he doesn't plan on me letting banks know at all ! All he told me to do is establish my comi and go to court in dec , presume he ll be in contact again nearer the time. 
@ bronte - fee is £2350 ans I've made part payments of £900 so far. It's a large practice well advertised on net.


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## Notsureatall

I've asked him about letting banks ect know 3 months in advance and his reply in writing  was "no notice needs to be given to the bank-the court may adjourn your bankruptcy hearing however to put them on notice" .... Has anyone else out there proceeded like this?


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## DonJuan30

I can only speak from my experience.  Both Steve and the other solicitor made it very clear that it was important to do this.  Is your guy in Ireland or the UK, and how many cases has he dealt with this way? Where are you based by the way? In some parts there is a 2 month wait from when you make the initial application to when you have the hearing, so maybe that's what your guy is thinking of. I don't think it is a great approach tho. Is he attempting to sell the property before you go bankrupt?


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## Notsureatall

Solicitor is in uk and we re both in north west - when I asked him did he deal with a lot of cases he just said yeah and didn't elaborate. I think he is used to dealing with bigger cases and maybe he's afraid banks will try stop the petition. No he doesn't want me to sell apartment or do anything  - just establish comi and go to court.


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## Bronte

For the fee what was it agreed he would do? Do you pay the final fee on successful outcome?

One thing for sure, part of the reason Sean Quinn failed on his bankruptcy bid was because he did not inform the banks of his new address, and as far as I can recall this is now a core part of bankrutpcy applications succeeding.


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## Steve Thatcher

Hi people, I'm now back from holiday. Jet lagged and hence on this forum at 5.

I am alarmed at the advice the OP is getting here. It is a fundamental principle of the EU insolvency regulations that your creditors are able to reasonably ascertain where you are.
It is for that reason I ask all my clients to simply send a change of address letter to all their creditors, half way through setting up their comi in the UK. If you do not so so the court may refuse the make the order on day 1, the creditor could appeal (Quinn) or the OR could make an application to set aside the order.

Ignore the advisor and write those simple letters. Do not worry, your creditors will not harass you.

Ha Ha, Hello Donyuan30 

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Notsureatall

Thanks for the info Steve, I'm going to send those letters so. As for my solicitor, Steve could you advise if I can stop using him without penalty? I signed something in our first meeting(am ashamed to say i didnt read it) and still owe £1600 but as previously posted he never replies to me and his advice seems to be risky?


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## Steve Thatcher

Notsureatall said:


> Thanks for the info Steve, I'm going to send those letters so. As for my solicitor, Steve could you advise if I can stop using him without penalty? I signed something in our first meeting(am ashamed to say i didnt read it) and still owe £1600 but as previously posted he never replies to me and his advice seems to be risky?



It depends on your agreement. You could say that you have no faith in his advice and intend to walk away at this stage. As you are going bankrupt, he won't sue, what would be the point.

Steve Thatcher


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## JayPee

Can someone give me a rough price for say an hour or so consultaion with an advisor in the UK, just to dot the i's and cross the t's. Also, will this suffice or will I have to sign up to a full package?


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## Steve Thatcher

JayPee said:


> Can someone give me a rough price for say an hour or so consultaion with an advisor in the UK, just to dot the i's and cross the t's. Also, will this suffice or will I have to sign up to a full package?



I come over to Dublin once a week and charge €250 for a hours consultation, where you learn all you want about the process here in the UK. There is no further commitment

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## Notsureatall

Do you have uk contact number?


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## Steve Thatcher

00447837608220

Steve Thatcher


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## Notsureatall

Hi,
I'm just going through the bankruptcy forms but there are two questions which worry me and probably a few other people out there.

1. They ask for previous employers details: does the receiver ever contact them? I left a year ago but as I was in a profession and still have friends there I really wouldn't want them knowing as it would definitely effect my career.

2. They ask for current landlords details-again do they contact them? Am afraid they would not take it well and we could be asked to leave?


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## DonJuan30

1. Not in my experience.  The OR asked for some details about my previous employment when I had the call with her, but didnt go into any great detail with her questions and didn't contact them.  She wanted to know what they did, what I did there, and what salary I earned - that was it.  I think they will be more concerned about what you're working at now in the UK.  Even at that, they didn't contact my current employer, so I would guess that once everything stacks up and you give the OR sufficient proof of your employment in the UK they will not contact anyone looking for more information. 

2. Not sure, but mine hasn't said anything about it if they were contacted.  As long as you have bneen a good tenant I see no reason why they would revoke your tenancy.  Check your lease - mine didnt actually say anything about it. The OR will leave you with enough money to pay the rent, etc each month, so can't see what the landlord has to lose by keeping you on.


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## Notsureatall

Thanks donjuan, has put my mind at ease!


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## no_moolah

Steve Thatcher said:


> It depends on your agreement. You could say that you have no faith in his advice and intend to walk away at this stage. As you are going bankrupt, he won't sue, what would be the point.
> 
> Steve Thatcher


 
Hi Steve

If one were to relocate from Ireland to the UK and declare himself bankrupt, how soon after could one relocate to another country in the EU (not Ireland) ? Is there a minimum amount of time one needs to spend in the UK after the order is made?

NM


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## Steve Thatcher

no_moolah said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> If one were to relocate from Ireland to the UK and declare himself bankrupt, how soon after could one relocate to another country in the EU (not Ireland) ? Is there a minimum amount of time one needs to spend in the UK after the order is made?
> 
> NM



No there is no minimum amount of time. You should stay for as long as the OR needs you. That may change from case to case. In the North, I think they expect you to grind out the whole year. In Eng and Wales, there seems to be no such problem with going back to Ireland at any time. Expect to stay at least four months after.

Steve Thatcher


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## no_moolah

Steve Thatcher said:


> No there is no minimum amount of time. You should stay for as long as the OR needs you. That may change from case to case. In the North, I think they expect you to grind out the whole year. In Eng and Wales, there seems to be no such problem with going back to Ireland at any time. Expect to stay at least four months after.
> 
> Steve Thatcher


 
Thank you Steve


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## no_moolah

DonJuan30 said:


> 1. Not in my experience. The OR asked for some details about my previous employment when I had the call with her, but didnt go into any great detail with her questions and didn't contact them.


 

Hi Don Juan

After the order was made, how did your interview with the OR go? What kind of questions did she ask?

Thanks

NM


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