# Injured in a neighbour's house - neighbour refusing to engage



## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

hi there , i havent posted on this site in a while but would appreciate the views of those who perhaps  may have some experience in this particular area

two months ago i was over at a mans house a few miles away , i was borrowing a small piece of equipment , in truth i could have bought this item for ten quid but we have helped each other out now and again this past five years , the man in question has a small plant hire business and did some work re_ landscaping for me down the years with his mini digger

anyway , another neighbour of his was present at the house  and i was invited to help remove a heating oil tank from a shelf in the nearby  garage , i took one side of the tank , when the tank was half way off the shelf ( four feet high shelf ) , a solid block fell from underneath and straight on to my foot , i quickly left but did not attend hospital that evening as if you show up in UHG late on friday , if you lucky you get seen early saturday morning , so instead i went to doc on call the following day and got a referral for an xray , the xray showed no break despite the fact the weight of the block is 20 kg and it fell four feet , the health professional advised me to take panadol and that i should be fine in a fortnight ,  anyway the pain went from bad to worse so i had to return to my GP a fortnight after the accident as regular pain meds were not working , she arranged for me to have an MRI and sure enough there is a injury , its commonly known as a bone bruise and according to my GP takes six months to fully recover but worse case scenario can take more than a year , its more complex to deal with than a break according to my GP so im waiting to see an orthopedic , the pain is unbearable at times and im spending quite a bit on pain medication and cannot drive long distances due to the drowsiness caused , im also off work ,  anyway , those are the details of the injury but here is where i need advice , the person who owns the property where this happened has behaved in a most intransigent manner and has completely turned nasty

they absolutely refuse to take responsibility for what happened and will not provide insurance details , in fact they outright lied about not having insurance , claiming that while they have home insurance , they do not have liability insurance , ive sought advice on this from insurance brokers and solicitors and none have ever heard of someone having home insurance without having liability insurance for a guest becoming injured , ive had my solicitor formally write to this person and they rang me completely indignant that i would send them a solicitors letter , barring the fact that sending a solicitors letter  is routine when it comes to making an injury claim official , anytime i tried to raise the issue via phone calls in the weeks after the accident , they made mealy mouthed comments and hung up abruptly as if i was the one causing them a disruption , some people appear to view insurance claims as a terrible attack on them and this person seems to be one of them

anyway , my question is this , this person has refused to provide insurance details , from talking to my solicitor i understand that i can take a civil case against them , this involves bringing them to the civil courts but apart from the long wait , were they to claim poverty ( this person is neither very poor nor very wealthy , slap bang average i would say ) , would i be left with a pyrrhic victory ? , i foolishly let my health insurance go back in 2014 so had to pay out of my own pocket the cost of the MRI and the same will apply should i need to see an orthopedic more than once

thanks for reading


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2018)

They are not obliged to discuss their insurance details with you.  

Your only course of action is to take a civil case against them. 

Don't engage them in any further discussions. 

Your solicitor should issue proceedings. Your solicitor will probably advise them to notify their insurance company. They should refer it to their insurance company if they have insurance. The insurance company will contact your solicitor. 

Or they might just act thick and not engage at all with you. You will get a judgement against them in default of defence. 

You can then send it to the Sheriff and/or get a judgement mortgage lodged against any property they own. 

Brendan


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## noproblem (31 Jul 2018)

Just being the devils advocate here so don't take offence. They could very easily deny everything. Have you any proof, apart from your sore foot that this happened as you say on this persons property?


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

noproblem said:


> Just being the devils advocate here so don't take offence. They could very easily deny everything. Have you any proof, apart from your sore foot that this happened as you say on this persons property?



very good point , not only do i not have proof , they had a friend present who i have not met before and who could theoretically back up any claims of my not having been there 

only evidence i have is medical evidence , i did not visit this property with anyone else !


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## T McGibney (31 Jul 2018)

Conflict between neighbours rarely ends well, particularly when it escalates to legals. I don't know what else to say really.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

T McGibney said:


> Conflict between neighbours rarely ends well, particularly when it escalates to legals. I don't know what else to say really.



my father had his own business and employed about three people on an ongoing basis when i was growing up , two of them hurt themselves on his premises ( health and safety were not prioritized as much back then ) and claimed , he didnt take it personally , one of them was his brother in law

this person asked me to help them with a chore , they neglected to point out a loose missile and it ended up causing injury , they actually rang me the night it happened so were concerned about it for a time , was only when i asked about insurance that they turned sour , i dont even know what the cost to me will be yet but i thought it prudent to at least head off any long term risk so i simply inquired about there insurance situation , i suspect they would be out no more than five hundred euro due to there insurance premium going up for a few years with a claim 

as far as im concerned they chose to make it a big deal , im hardly expected to simply grin and bear a potentially permanent weakness in a limb , in a minority of cases , bone bruising of the foot can result in arthritis setting in , its a relatively serious injury and an extremely painful one


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## T McGibney (31 Jul 2018)

I know all that and understand your plight but my observation about neighbours stands regardless.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

T McGibney said:


> I know all that and understand your plight but my observation about neighbours stands regardless.



while undoubtably true , the other person made it into a conflict , not up to me to now raise a white flag , for all this person knew , i could have broken every bone in my foot


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## T McGibney (31 Jul 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> while undoubtably true , the other person made it into a conflict , not up to me to now raise a white flag , for all this person knew , i could have broken every bone in my foot


I'm not arguing with you, btw.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

T McGibney said:


> I'm not arguing with you, btw.



i know that T 

i want to stress that i have never made a claim against someone in my entire life , its not something i am doing lightly , i accept that a very significant amount of personal injury claims are bogus and its a contributor to the hefty premiums in this country


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## T McGibney (31 Jul 2018)

Hopefully your neighbour will realise that too. Unfortunately common sense tends to go out the window in such situations and the very mention of an insurance claim, no matter how merited, tends to scare the living daylights out of people.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

T McGibney said:


> Hopefully your neighbour will realise that too. Unfortunately common sense tends to go out the window in such situations and the very mention of an insurance claim, no matter how merited, tends to scare the living daylights out of people.



the same people would not be the slightest bit put out were they to accidently drive into the back of someone and subsequently have a claim made against them , my solicitor told me people are often  very sensitive about home insurance claims but in reality , the increase in premium should be no higher than for a motor insurance claim


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## Bronte (31 Jul 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> as far as im concerned they chose to make it a big deal , im hardly expected to simply grin and bear a potentially permanent weakness in a limb , in a minority of cases , bone bruising of the foot can result in arthritis setting in , its a relatively serious injury and an extremely painful one



Is it more painful than a c section or giving birth naturally.  I've often wondered how much I've cut off my life by having had c sections. 

Even if you've no insurance are you not covered via PRSI etc?


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

Bronte said:


> Is it more painful than a c section or giving birth naturally.  I've often wondered how much I've cut off my life by having had c sections.
> 
> Even if you've no insurance are you not covered via PRSI etc?



i honestly dont know what to do with this post or where to begin


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## LS400 (31 Jul 2018)

Do you have a settlement amount that you would be happy with?

The reason I ask is that I cant see how this will end well within the community, and unless your looking to achieve significant funds, ask yourself if its really worth the impending grief.

It will be told that, GBi comes to give me a dig out and now want to claim of me flippen house insurance.

 In fairness, you did go to him, to Borrow something of his...which he was going to lend to you, as he will tell all who will listen, and it is per-sieved, as you put it, "personal"

Not saying your not entitled to compensation, I dont really know what level of discomfort you are in on a daily basis, and if its improving, only you can answer that, but if your going down that road, you must go all the way.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

LS400 said:


> Do you have a settlement amount that you would be happy with?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I cant see how this will end well within the community, and unless your looking to achieve significant funds, ask yourself if its really worth the impending grief.
> 
> ...



i dont know what id be happy with , it only happened two months ago but ive spent close to a grand so far and im spending thirty euro per week on painkillers , my solicitor has told me the injurys board will offer 15 k or nothing for this kind of injury , thats assuming recovery is as expected , so i dont think its even a case of what id be happy with , besides , whether i was awarded 5 k , 10 k or 50 k , it should make no difference to the person who,s insurance is being claimed against , there policy will become more expensive for a number of years regardless

as for how this plays out in the community , i cant control how people view anything including this issue , in my experience some people dont care about the facts of a case , they will take a view or a side regardless so in the minds of some people , had i had a block roll out from the roof of this garrage and it landed on my head , rendering me with some sort of brain injury , i would still be out of order to seek damages , like i said , some people will ignore facts and details and form a particular view , its not something i would worry about , as far as im concerned any fair minded person would see that im the one with an injury , one i sustained through this others persons negligence , they feel slighted because apparently no one should ever seek to lodge an insurance claim if said person has done a few jobs down the years for the claimant ( jobs they were paid for i might add )

as for the level of discomfort , im almost fit to cry at times during the day , its that painful , the meds im on are that strong , i was warned by both my GP and the local pharmacist that i really should not drive while taking them due to the drowsiness they cause , i sleep about four hours a night and have to get up and rub cream on my foot as im limited to how many painkillers i can take during the day , its been the worst two months of my life and the pain has not reseeded one iota , im looking at minimum six months recovery according to my GP 

this other person will get over having a claim made against them ( assuming they cop on and provide insurance details ) but i might have a fragile foot for life , arthritis is a threat in cases like this 

i am not full sure yet if i would pursue this person in a private law suit , its something i would have to consider were they so to refuse to provide insurance details but to be honest , someone acting so beligerently deserves little mercy , it would be an incredibly aggressive act on their part , if i i did pursue them , it would not be out of concern for what the community thought , the community might think of it once for a half a minute having heard it in the pub , most dont get too bothered about what doesnt effect them personally


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## noproblem (31 Jul 2018)

Maybe he has no insurance and in that case, what do you intend to do?
I can see a scenario whereby he could say, yes, GBI came to my house to borrow something which i've no problem in him having. While here he saw me doing something and came over to help but for whatever reason he hurt himself but I never asked him to help me and he walked out with the borrowed item, went home and nothing at all was wrong so I cannot understand what he's talking about now and you can ask a friend of mine who was there too and he'll back up what i'm saying. It will be your word against 2 people and everything else that might come into play. I wouldn't be using what you've written here either as a sort of back up evidence either as it will surely backfire. Not saying who's right or wrong in this but unless you're very badly injured i'd be inclined to hold a friendship rather than anything else. Think long and hard about it and go and have a good chat with him, not a confrontation.


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

noproblem said:


> Maybe he has no insurance and in that case, what do you intend to do?
> I can see a scenario whereby he could say, yes, GBI came to my house to borrow something which i've no problem in him having. While here he saw me doing something and came over to help but for whatever reason he hurt himself but I never asked him to help me and he walked out with the borrowed item, went home and nothing at all was wrong so I cannot understand what he's talking about now and you can ask a friend of mine who was there too and he'll back up what i'm saying. It will be your word against 2 people and everything else that might come into play. I wouldn't be using what you've written here either as a sort of back up evidence either as it will surely backfire. Not saying who's right or wrong in this but unless you're very badly injured i'd be inclined to hold a friendship rather than anything else. Think long and hard about it and go and have a good chat with him, not a confrontation.




1. he told me he had home insurance but claimed to not have liability insurance , ive looked into this and its not possible to have home insurance without having liability insurance , otherwise every home owner in the country would be at risk of there postman slipping and breaking something and subsequently suing for damages

2. my borrowing something is not in anyway relevant here , it doesnt absolve someone of negligence

3. him believing i was ok is also irrelevant as first of all injuries often take time to develop ( especially crushing injuries ) but more importantly he isnt a medical professional , ive been told by medical professionals that im injured

4. in the event of a court case , he and his friend could lie and say i either never showed up that evening or that i wasnt hit by a block  , its not beyond the bounds of possibility but it would take incredible  chutzpah


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## Monbretia (31 Jul 2018)

I haven't been involved with selling insurance for a while but we always advised people that the public liability part of the insurance is part of the contents cover so a person would have to have buildings and contents cover, you'd be surprised how many people have only buildings cover and some even have none at all!

Now that may have changed in intervening years, any insurance brokers here to confirm or deny the situation with PL?


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## galway_blow_in (31 Jul 2018)

Monbretia said:


> I haven't been involved with selling insurance for a while but we always advised people that the public liability part of the insurance is part of the contents cover so a person would have to have buildings and contents cover, you'd be surprised how many people have only buildings cover and some even have none at all!
> 
> Now that may have changed in intervening years, any insurance brokers here to confirm or deny the situation with PL?



if the insurance company confirms to my solicitor that the policy doesnt cover this , then that would change things but ive spoke to my own broker and the broker who deals with my mothers insurance and also my solicitor , all three stated that they never heard of a situation where home insurance would not cover this kind of thing 

time will tell , if its a strange set up where public liability is excluded , then that would require a rethink


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## RichInSpirit (1 Aug 2018)

Hi Galway_blow_in.
Perhaps my approach would be less sensible from a financial perspective. I would be inclined to put the injury down to wear and tear due to life's happenings, pay for treatment myself and not claim insurance or money off your friend, regardless of your right to do so.


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## peteb (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> time will tell , if its a strange set up where public liability is excluded , then that would require a rethink



Why would it require a re-think?  Either you injured yourself and are seeking compensation or you aren't.  You're making it sounds like "well if its a claim under his insurance policy its hurts no-one but if he has to pay himself well i dont like that".  

Also don't forget, he's got to be found negligent.  You didnt have to assist in the moving of the tank, you voluntarily accepted some level of risk here.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

peteb said:


> Why would it require a re-think?  Either you injured yourself and are seeking compensation or you aren't.  You're making it sounds like "well if its a claim under his insurance policy its hurts no-one but if he has to pay himself well i dont like that".
> 
> Also don't forget, he's got to be found negligent.  You didnt have to assist in the moving of the tank, you voluntarily accepted some level of risk here.



" why would it require a rethink "

because it might be foolish to chase someone through the courts if they had not any money to compensate and i would have spent money bringing them to court ! , my being injured is beside the point in that sense , theoretically someone could end up in a wheelchair due to an accident but if the person responsible had no proper insurance , they would be left financially in the lurch but their injuries would remain the same regardless , common sense would tell someone that a form of redress through insurance would be less painful , someones insurance going up 500 euro over a few years is less of a hit than paying out several thousand out of your own pocket , its about making a balanced decision , vast majority of people in this scenario would be covered for a guest getting injured so for now im dealing with this as a normal claim through insurance , if it turns out this guy isnt insured , i have to consider the risk reward of a civil action as i might only get a pyrrhic victory which is the point of this thread  , getting a charge on the mans house is not something i would want as i myself would not be any better off 

i believe its presumptuous of you  to conclude i accepted some level of risk , i was not to know that a foreign body was beneath the tank and the owner shrieked " oh i forgot about the blocks " once one rolled out and on to my foot , would be like saying someone who helped you paint a room took on risk due to having gotten an electric shock from exposed electric wires hanging from the ceiling , the only risk i took on was if the tank had landed on top of me but that didnt happen and the tank was empty , had i grabbed a half full tank and it fell or i hurt my back lifting it , that would be entirely different    

 i was asked to help remove a tank from a shelf , not a tank with a block lying underneath !


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## peteb (1 Aug 2018)

How is injuring your back from lifting the tank anyway different?  The inherent risk of injury remains the same.  

You can believe its presumptuous of me if you like.  but on a 4 foot shelf how would you not notice the tank was raised? ?


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

RichInSpirit said:


> Hi Galway_blow_in.
> Perhaps my approach would be less sensible from a financial perspective. I would be inclined to put the injury down to wear and tear due to life's happenings, pay for treatment myself and not claim insurance or money off your friend, regardless of your right to do so.



i appreciate your view , perhaps i will be as philosophical about such things some day , for now however i have to anticipate potential earnings loss and medical expense , not to mention manage each day in constant pain , some people end up with what is known as " chronic pain " in the event of injury , even a fracture or a bruise eventually heals fully , the pain hangs around , its a sort of irrational pain where the nerve system is over active , you cannot be diagnosed with chronic pain until six months after an injury had healed ,  there is an entire wing of medicine which deals with this , they are known as pain specialists


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

peteb said:


> How is injuring your back from lifting the tank anyway different?  The inherent risk of injury remains the same.
> 
> You can believe its presumptuous of me if you like.  but on a 4 foot shelf how would you not notice the tank was raised? ?



are you a practicing solicitor ?

if you are , does that kind of obtuse line of questioning prove successful ?


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## Cervelo (1 Aug 2018)

Personally Gbi I think you should make a claim against you neighbour not necessarily for compensation but for the ongoing medical costs to you because of the injury you sustained while helping him.
Compensation can be addressed later if needs be but your medical bills, which could be expensive will be an ongoing cost to you, why should you have to pay for that!


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

Cervelo said:


> Personally Gbi I think you should make a claim against you neighbour not necessarily for compensation but for the ongoing medical costs to you because of the injury you sustained while helping him.
> Compensation can be addressed later if needs be but your medical bills, which could be expensive will be an ongoing cost to you, why should you have to pay for that!



thank you

the reason i first contacted this man ( he lives about three miles away ) was because i was unsure of how this injury would develop , the man himself contacted me about two hours after the injury , i then rang him ten days later having had an xray but with the pain becoming steadily worse , the conversation was entirely civil ten days later , i told him the pain was getting worse and asked in a discreet way if he had cover , he said he would call me back in an hour and when he duly did , he informed he me had no insurance , i asked did he even have house insurance and he replied that he did but that this kind if thing would not be covered

i called him three weeks later and informed him i was waiting on an MRI but that the pain was worse than ever , his tone was altogether different , he dismissed my claims of being in pain and when i explained i was already out quite a bit of money , he agressively replied that he would pay me out of his own f*****g pocket if it shut me up , he then hung up , i then knew this could not be dealt with in a friendly manner so contacted my solicitor who informed me i would need to write to him to inform him of the need to notify his insurance in the event a claim might need to be made , upon receiving the letter , he contacted me by phone to berate me for having the audacity to send him a solicitors letter , he also informed me that there was nothing wrong with me , to which i replied that he was not a doctor and that i was facing a year long recovery potentially , he then hung up so thats where i am , no good will whatsoever on the part of the other individual despite there negligence having ruined my families summer , a kid on the way in october and an entire summer of air BnB cancelled due to my not being able to run around getting rooms ready for guests , not to mention my not being able to go to work many days due to the pain

no laughing matter and i never even got an apology so i might be forgiven for not taking a " turn the other cheek " approach


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## staff (1 Aug 2018)

I wouldn't be a big fan of PI claims as I do believe that there are a lot of chancers out there who just up the cost of everyone else's home and motor insurance.  Taking your posts at face value I would have no problem pursuing this as based on what you have said you are no doubt in a lot of constant pain and this could go on for who knows how long or how bad it will get.  As you said your summer has been ruined, you have lost income etc so by all means go for it.  Make sure you have a solicitor who knows what he is talking about.

Best of Luck with it.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

staff said:


> I wouldn't be a big fan of PI claims as I do believe that there are a lot of chancers out there who just up the cost of everyone else's home and motor insurance.  Taking your posts at face value I would have no problem pursuing this as based on what you have said you are no doubt in a lot of constant pain and this could go on for who knows how long or how bad it will get.  As you said your summer has been ruined, you have lost income etc so by all means go for it.  Make sure you have a solicitor who knows what he is talking about.
> 
> Best of Luck with it.



thanks , according to my solicitor if the other side are agreeable , the matter will be dealt with by the injuries board , according to him they will either agree to pay a sum of say 15 k or pay nothing at all , the solicitor will be getting 3 k and that was with me haggling but if i get nothing , there will be no fee , by the time i pay the solicitor and cover my own expenses , i will have very little out of it 

i dont believe i should take a financial hit over this , i would happily reimburse the other party what they were out in increased premium but they are being extremely unhelpful so far


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## Bronte (1 Aug 2018)

You'd be entitled to loss of income on the air B&B too if you make a claim.  It's highly unlikely your neighbour does not have public liability. Unless he's carrying on some kind of trade that is not insured.

If you get more than 15K does the solicitor get more than 3K? Make sure you get a section 68 letter from the solicitor.


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## Easeler (1 Aug 2018)

Personally  i wouldn't do it as good friends and neighbours can be a scarce commodity  it Might be too late for OP to pull back now as he has all ready started proseedings and has threatened to sue and said friends and neighbours wouldn't trust him again he might as well go for it and get his compensation that he feels he is intitled to.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

Bronte said:


> You'd be entitled to loss of income on the air B&B too if you make a claim.  It's highly unlikely your neighbour does not have public liability. Unless he's carrying on some kind of trade that is not insured.
> 
> If you get more than 15K does the solicitor get more than 3K? Make sure you get a section 68 letter from the solicitor.



no the solicitor gets 3 k ( 3100 actually ) regardless but he seems to think 15 k or nothing is about what to expect if things went smoothly through a regular injuries board settlement


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

galwaypat said:


> Personally  i wouldn't do it as good friends and neighbours can be a scarce commodity  it Might be too late for OP to pull back now as he has all ready started proseedings and has threatened to sue and said friends and neighbours wouldn't trust him again he might as well go for it and get his compensation that he feels he is intitled to.



oh dont worry , if i get nothing , this person will still have gone down like a lead balloon in my estimation so that kind of reasoning can work both ways  , i believe in stepping up if you mess up and someone else suffers , he obviously prefers to shirk any responsibility  or worse still , portray himself as the wronged one , people can rationalize almost anything


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> he obviously prefers to shirk any responsibility  or worse still , portray himself as the wronged one , people can rationalize almost anything



This is your biggest hurdle, and if you go to court you'll get plenty of law but you mightn't get much justice. Prepare for your "I was borrowing something" narrative to be twisted beyond recognition and for your character and reputation to be dragged through the dirt.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> This is your biggest hurdle, and if you go to court you'll get plenty of law but you mightn't get much justice. Prepare for your "I was borrowing something" narrative to be twisted beyond recognition and for your character and reputation to be dragged through the dirt.



I don't see how my character and reputation would be sullied by that revelation 

Sure a solicitor would probably play that card but it's hardly a smoking gun in terms of a. Ruling


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> I don't see how my character and reputation would be sullied by that revelation


I didn't refer to a revelation. You said yourself that your neighbour may portray himself as the wronged one, and rationalize almost anything. 

Just make sure you're sufficiently armed for that.


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## Susie2017 (1 Aug 2018)

I know its not the forum for medical advice but a bone bruise should be healing or nearly there at this stage. You are unlikely to suffer arthritis unless there was a joint injury. Have you been elevating the leg for long periods to reduce swelling. You didnt elaborate on what the MRI showed. If there was no fracture then you are likely to be well again very soon. You are lucky that you did not suffer serious injury. Be thankful for that rather that focussing on what worse things may have occurred - they didnt. Anyway for what its worth I think having a good neighbour that you can drop in to borrow something and have a friendship is a valuable thing in life. Try to keep your relationship intact if you can. You never know when you might need him. He is probably suffering just as much as you if not more ! I can guarantee you he has had a few sleepless nights particularly getting a solicitors letter.  I have noticed over the years that people who make disproportionate insurance claims may end up sick or have some tragedy unfold in their life that cannot be fixed by money. Just an observation. Money wont fix your foot. Solicitors will of course advise that you need compensation but then again they are taking a nice slice for themselves. You can claim 20% of your medical expenses back through the Med 1 form. I hope that your foot gets better soon and that you can get on with your life.


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## peteb (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> are you a practicing solicitor ?
> 
> if you are , does that kind of obtuse line of questioning prove successful ?



No I'm not.  Are you?  
You've hired a solicitor so why bother with the musings of some random people online when you are already have professionals engaged and only want to hear what you want to hear?


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## Monbretia (1 Aug 2018)

You can go to the injuries board without any solicitor so why pay one if you don't need to.   Time enough if you decide to follow on and go to court.


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## DirectDevil (1 Aug 2018)

Just came across this thread. My ten cents worth.

1. This is a public liability claim under either the neighbour's household insurance or his business insurance if it arises incidental to the plant hire business.

2. Standard household insurance cover includes public liability insurance.

3. The neighbour owes OP a duty of care.
    If neighbour was negligent there is a valid claim.
    Negligence must be proven. Mere happening of an event like this would not automatically confer legal liability.

4. As this is a public liability type claim I take it that it will have to go to the PIAB which can be a pain in the face. Link - https://www.piab.ie/eng/

5. Neighbour has no obligation to disclose insurance details.

6. Ultimately, if neighbour is so stupid as to do the "head down - say nothing - it will go away" routine he will probably ignore any legal proceedings as well. If that happens you will get a judgment in default. If the Sheriff returns the fi-fa marked nulla bona you can then lodge the judgment against his property by way of judgment mortgage. If he is not likely to be selling that will be of no practical use.

7. A negotiated compromise would be well advised here before departing on a punitive expedition.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> I didn't refer to a revelation. You said yourself that your neighbour may portray himself as the wronged one, and rationalize almost anything.
> 
> Just make sure you're sufficiently armed for that.



i cant do anything about how this man decides to take this , nor can i do anything about how other people read the situation , you will always have critics no matter the situation


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

DirectDevil said:


> Just came across this thread. My ten cents worth.
> 
> 1. This is a public liability claim under either the neighbour's household insurance or his business insurance if it arises incidental to the plant hire business.
> 
> ...



thank you for that very detailed reply , i am taking a wait and see approach for now , im hoping this person will simply facilitate a conventional insurance claim by notifying his insurance company , if he decides to be belligerent , i will consider taking a civil action , while i realize a judgement against his house would penalize him , im not as yet convinced it would benefit me and it would leave the situation unresolved , i suspect were he to consult a solicitor , they would strongly advise him to not go down that road 

if he has insurance to cover this , matters should take their course relatively smoothly , albeit slowly


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> *i cant do anything about how this man decides to take this* , nor can i do anything about how other people read the situation , you will always have critics no matter the situation



You can - by trying to anticipate every possible scenario in relation to his response to all this, and devising appropriate strategies to deal with each and every one that you can think of. It's called planning. I'm amazed your solicitor hasn't suggested this in some shape or form.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

Susie2017 said:


> I know its not the forum for medical advice but a bone bruise should be healing or nearly there at this stage. You are unlikely to suffer arthritis unless there was a joint injury. Have you been elevating the leg for long periods to reduce swelling. You didnt elaborate on what the MRI showed. If there was no fracture then you are likely to be well again very soon. You are lucky that you did not suffer serious injury. Be thankful for that rather that focussing on what worse things may have occurred - they didnt. Anyway for what its worth I think having a good neighbour that you can drop in to borrow something and have a friendship is a valuable thing in life. Try to keep your relationship intact if you can. You never know when you might need him. He is probably suffering just as much as you if not more ! I can guarantee you he has had a few sleepless nights particularly getting a solicitors letter.  I have noticed over the years that people who make disproportionate insurance claims may end up sick or have some tragedy unfold in their life that cannot be fixed by money. Just an observation. Money wont fix your foot. Solicitors will of course advise that you need compensation but then again they are taking a nice slice for themselves. You can claim 20% of your medical expenses back through the Med 1 form. I hope that your foot gets better soon and that you can get on with your life.



bone bruising is worse than a bone break according to my GP , the injury has a benign name but is much more complex than a straight break , my GP has told me it takes six months to recover with all going well , i have yet to see an orthopedic so i dont yet know if its a deep bruise or not , i may have to see a foot specialist , in some cases , the bone can die  and arthritis can set in but hopefully that is not a risk here but i dont know anything as of yet , im not a medic so its a learning curve for me entirely 

no offense but its a load of cobblers to suggest the other man is suffering more than me , he made this into a dispute , in fact had he engaged with me in a thoughtful and civil manner , i would probably not have needed to send him a solicitors letter so early on , i was left with no choice as i got nothing but a torrent of abuse down the phone and him eventually hanging up the last two occasions , i sent him the letter for fear he would leave it too long to notify his insurance company , in that regard i was protecting the man


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> You can - by trying to anticipate every possible scenario in relation to his response to all this, and devising appropriate strategies to deal with each and every one that you can think of. It's called planning. I'm amazed your solicitor hasn't suggested this in some shape or form.



and would you apply the same high standards to the other man or does all the responsibility for how this story plays out rest with me ?


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> and would you apply the same high standards to the other man or does all the responsibility for how this story plays out rest with me ?


Stop playing the victim. I'm only trying to help you by suggesting how I'd approach this if I were in your shoes.

And if your neighbour asked me what I thought, I'd offer the same advice to him.

But why do I bother?


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## peteb (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> dont worry , im dismissing your contribution for the pedantic and obtuse  blather it is !



Please.  you just want to hear what you want to hear and you think insurance is the easy pay out here for him to fund the cost of your injury.  You've already said further down that you would have paid him the difference in the cost of his premium vs the increase following your potential payout.  

Direct Devil has already pointed out as I had alluded to, that you are going to have to prove negligence on the part of the neighbour.  

As people mentioned before, you didnt have to go to a solicitor you could have just gone down the Injuries Board route without one.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> Stop playing the victim. I'm only trying to help you by suggesting how I'd approach this if I were in your shoes.
> 
> And if your neighbour asked me what I thought, I'd offer the same advice to him.
> 
> But why do I bother?



im merely challenging your line of thinking , no need to be reductive


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

peteb said:


> Please.  you just want to hear what you want to hear and you think insurance is the easy pay out here for him to fund the cost of your injury.  You've already said further down that you would have paid him the difference in the cost of his premium vs the increase following your potential payout.
> 
> Direct Devil has already pointed out as I had alluded to, that you are going to have to prove negligence on the part of the neighbour.
> 
> As people mentioned before, you didnt have to go to a solicitor you could have just gone down the Injuries Board route without one.



more baseless conjecture about what i want 

nice cherry picking by the way of what direct devil said , convenient of you to not refer to where he says the other man has a duty of care here


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> im merely challenging your line of thinking , no need to be reductive


No, on several occasions on this thread your responses have been hostile and dismissive, eg "more baseless conjecture". 

People are trying to help you here.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> No, on several occasions on this thread your responses have been hostile and dismissive, eg "more baseless conjecture".
> 
> People are trying to help you here.



thats funny , you trot out the reactionary " stop playing the victim " line when i cast doubt on your suggestion that i control the narrative here and im the one being hostile

some posters have indeed been very helpful , agreed


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## T McGibney (1 Aug 2018)

Suit yourself then. But don't blame us if it all goes wrong.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> Suit yourself then. But don't blame us if it all goes wrong.



it might well go wrong , i cant control everything , as was stated correctly earlier , a person can get law in court but not justice , i might not take a civil action if the other man decides to refuse to involve his insurance , i think it would be a lousy act on his part but i would have to be practical in terms of making the next step , if he never sells his house ,a charge against it means nothing and it would probably cost me a bit to bring a civil case before that judgement was even made

this other man may decide to bluff under the assumption i wont call


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## DirectDevil (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> thank you for that very detailed reply , i am taking a wait and see approach for now , im hoping this person will simply facilitate a conventional insurance claim by notifying his insurance company , if he decides to be belligerent , i will consider taking a civil action , while i realize a judgement against his house would penalize him , im not as yet convinced it would benefit me and it would leave the situation unresolved , i suspect were he to consult a solicitor , they would strongly advise him to not go down that road
> 
> if he has insurance to cover this , matters should take their course relatively smoothly , albeit slowly



I think that you are wise not to rush in too quickly.

On a practical level you need to see how the injury progresses.
Hopefully, it will settle but that just does not always happen with some injuries which can prove surprisingly problematical.
Against this, you have to watch the time limit for bringing your claim - probably 2 years for this one from date of accident.

BTW if neighbour does not seek indemnity from his insurance company and then reports it late having reconsidered his position he might end up with no cover.
His insurers could repudiate liability to him under his contract for late notification.


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## cremeegg (1 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> 1. he told me he had home insurance but claimed to not have liability insurance , ive looked into this and its not possible to have home insurance without having liability insurance



I dont think you are correct here. My insurance ties the public liability to the contents insurance. At one point I had only buildings cover with no contents insurance, I afterwards discovered that I had no public liability insurance for that time. I am not saying this is the case with all insurance companies but it was for that company at that time.


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## peteb (1 Aug 2018)

cremeegg said:


> I dont think you are correct here. My insurance ties the public liability to the contents insurance. At one point I had only buildings cover with no contents insurance, I afterwards discovered that I had no public liability insurance for that time. I am not saying this is the case with all insurance companies but it was for that company at that time.



that's your personal public liability that attaches to the contents side of things - i.e you open an umbrella on the street and take someone's eye out with it.  Property owners liability should follow the buildings cover.............much as it pains me to provide anything beyond baseless conjecture for this thread!


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

DirectDevil said:


> I think that you are wise not to rush in too quickly.
> 
> On a practical level you need to see how the injury progresses.
> Hopefully, it will settle but that just does not always happen with some injuries which can prove surprisingly problematical.
> ...



all valuable points devil , yes my solicitor made be aware of the fact that while you have two years to bring a claim , the person being claimed against has a much shorter time frame in which to notify their insurance of an incident and potential impending claim , according to my solicitor it can be as little as two months , it was upon hearing this that i decided to formally write to this person as trying to talk to him by phone proved fruitless due to his indignation


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## DirectDevil (1 Aug 2018)

cremeegg said:


> I dont think you are correct here. My insurance ties the public liability to the contents insurance. At one point I had only buildings cover with no contents insurance, I afterwards discovered that I had no public liability insurance for that time. I am not saying this is the case with all insurance companies but it was for that company at that time.



I came across this tangle a few years ago.

The problem was caused in part because some people had separate buildings policies and contents policies either with the same insurer or different insurers !

The way it used to work was that the public liability section of a buildings policy covered the public liability of the policyholder as a* property owner *and the contents policy covered the policyholder as a *property occupier*.

The general public liability / personal liability cover was wrapped up inside the contents cover.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

cremeegg said:


> I dont think you are correct here. My insurance ties the public liability to the contents insurance. At one point I had only buildings cover with no contents insurance, I afterwards discovered that I had no public liability insurance for that time. I am not saying this is the case with all insurance companies but it was for that company at that time.



im open to correction as im just going by what ive been told but say for example i had been officially working for this man in the capacity of a tradesman , then in that scenario , his insurance would not cover as i myself would need to have insurance , as is the case with what happened here , its no different to if i had hurt myself helping him empty the dishwasher as a house guest  , perhaps this explanation is also flawed

if the mans insurance company proves they do not cover this kind of injury case , then that will be quite different in terms of how this can be dealt with but so far his denials of not having insurance are shaky as he appeared to be trying to fob me off and more importantly from talking to industry people , in the vast majority of cases house - home insurance would cover these kind of situations


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## noproblem (1 Aug 2018)

I'd imagine he'll say he has no idea what you're talking about, didn't have you on his premises at all and is totally flabergasted by what is being said. In that case why would he even have any contact with insurance companies regarding what you're saying regardless of whether he has ins or not.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

noproblem said:


> I'd imagine he'll say he has no idea what you're talking about, didn't have you on his premises at all and is totally flabergasted by what is being said. In that case why would he even have any contact with insurance companies regarding what you're saying regardless of whether he has ins or not.



how likely is it that someone would commit fully  to a big lie like that ? , i mean it would mean two people engaging in bare faced lies as his friend was also present so presumably both would end up having to provide testimony  , im not saying its impossible but surely evidence like medical reports would support the position of what happened , isnt the burden of proof less stringent in civil cases than criminal cases ?

seems like a big gamble for the purpose of avoiding  a slightly more expensive home insurance premium for a few years ? , word would get around that this man and his buddy concocted a lie in court , how would that reflect upon them in the community ?


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## noproblem (1 Aug 2018)

Ok, but we're only hearing one side of the story. Good luck to ya, you'll need it all.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

noproblem said:


> Ok, but we're only hearing one side of the story. Good luck to ya, you'll need it all.



so not only are you anticipating that the other side pursue a course which involves an audacious lie , you then imply that im perhaps telling lies about what happened

why would i gain from telling a lie , not like anything i say here or hear here will impact in anyway on what eventually transpires

" but were only hearing one side of the story "

what a truly weird comment to make within the context of internet forum discussions !


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## Ravima (1 Aug 2018)

OK, there's a dispute between the parties. 

Injured party should consult solicitor, have them write to neighbour and see what happens. 

Problem is , if the house insured refuses to deal with claim, due to a breach of Policy Conditions, then the injured party is taking his chances on ever recovering money from the neighbour.


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## galway_blow_in (1 Aug 2018)

Ravima said:


> OK, there's a dispute between the parties.
> 
> Injured party should consult solicitor, have them write to neighbour and see what happens.
> 
> Problem is , if the house insured refuses to deal with claim, due to a breach of Policy Conditions, then the injured party is taking his chances on ever recovering money from the neighbour.



thats exactly it !


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## LS400 (1 Aug 2018)

DirectDevil said:


> BTW if the neighbour does not seek indemnity from his insurance company and then reports it late having reconsidered his position he might end up with no cover.
> His insurers could repudiate liability to him under his contract for late notification.





This part I don't get,

If the neighbour decided not to contact his insurers in a reasonable timeframe, how and why should that impact on GBI's claim. He is either covered through insurance on that specific time frame of injury, or he is not covered. 

The insurance company can hardly exonerate itself based on the non-compliance of the policy holder?


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## postman pat (2 Aug 2018)

No wonder people are paranoid about lettig people on their property/premises....and when someone claims its NEVER about the money!!.


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## Leper (2 Aug 2018)

Hi Galway-Blow-In. Is there ere a chance you can start sentences with capital letters and after  sentences are finished could you throw in a few full stops?


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## galway_blow_in (2 Aug 2018)

postman pat said:


> No wonder people are paranoid about lettig people on their property/premises....and when someone claims its NEVER about the money!!.



would you be happy to take the financial hit , never mind endure suffering for god knows how long ?

its easy make glib comments like the one above when it doesnt  effect you personally  !


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## peteb (2 Aug 2018)

LS400 said:


> This part I don't get,
> 
> If the neighbour decided not to contact his insurers in a reasonable timeframe, how and why should that impact on GBI's claim. He is either covered through insurance on that specific time frame of injury, or he is not covered.
> 
> The insurance company can hardly exonerate itself based on the non-compliance of the policy holder?



Yes it can.  Insured is obliged to inform his insurance company as soon as he is aware of an incident that may give rise to a claim.  Defendant puts head in sand and doesn't tell his insurers despite receiving 3 solicitors letters and then Injuries Board correspondence.  Then he decides on foot of the letter from IB saying the assesment fee of €600 is now due attempts to go his insurers.  Insurer will deny indemnity as he is in breach of policy conditions. 

This is not like motor insurance.  GBI is not considered a party to a claim here.  He can't go to the insurance company directly.  There is no obligation to have property owners liability cover.  So he is merely attempting to sue his neighbour and the only chance he has off a pay day, as he has said himself, is if the neighbour has insurance.


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## Bronte (2 Aug 2018)

Leper said:


> Hi Galway-Blow-In. Is there ere a chance you can start sentences with capital letters and after  sentences are finished could you throw in a few full stops?


He likes commas though, with spaces in between ! And quotation marks.


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## galway_blow_in (2 Aug 2018)

i see the grammar puritans are out in force today !


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## Sunny (2 Aug 2018)

You were helping a neighbour lift something and a block fell on your foot? It's an unfortunate injury but the neighbour didn't drop the block on you. If you were playing football and someone stood on your foot and gave you foot bruise, would you expect the other player to compensate you??? You took a risk once you agreed to help him out just like you take a risk getting out of bed every morning. Why don't you concentrate on getting better and forgetting about suing and other legal nonsense. It's unfortunate but it's no-ones fault.


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## galway_blow_in (2 Aug 2018)

Sunny said:


> You were helping a neighbour lift something and a block fell on your foot? It's an unfortunate injury but the neighbour didn't drop the block on you. If you were playing football and someone stood on your foot and gave you foot bruise, would you expect the other player to compensate you??? You took a risk once you agreed to help him out just like you take a risk getting out of bed every morning. Why don't you concentrate on getting better and forgetting about suing and other legal nonsense. It's unfortunate but it's no-ones fault.



you make conclusions based on the facts yet your conclusion is purely arbitrary and frankly spurious 

saying someone takes a risk getting out of bed in the morning is glib waffle which can be presented as advice regarding any situation , as for it being no ones fault , the other man forgot about a hidden ( a 20 kg plus block ) risk - threat and this error ended up causing injury to me which has hurt me both physically and financially , it has impacted my and my families life severely so far ! , as for the football analogy , more spurious comparisons , this guy didnt accidently walk on my foot , apples and oranges


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## peteb (2 Aug 2018)

Maybe you failed to correct assess the risk!


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## Sunny (2 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> you make conclusions based on the facts yet your conclusion is purely arbitrary and frankly spurious
> 
> saying someone takes a risk getting out of bed in the morning is glib waffle which can be presented as advice regarding any situation , as for it being no ones fault , the other man forgot about a hidden ( a 20 kg plus block ) risk - threat and this error ended up causing injury to me which has hurt me both physically and financially , it has impacted my and my families life severely so far ! , as for the football analogy , more spurious comparisons , this guy didnt accidently walk on my foot , apples and oranges



"Spurious". I have an online reputation that I am very keen to protect. I am deeply offended and aggrieved. I feel like I have been libeled and I intend to defend my reputation. Maybe after you sue your neighbour, I could have my case against you heard against you on the same docket. Same you having to go to court another day.

You need to calm yourself down and concentrate on doing something productive until your recover from your debilitating injury. Maybe work on punctuation and forming sentences.

The guy didn't deliberately hide a 20kg block and push it on your foot. You helped someone out and fair play to you but it bit you in the ass. If it was a business, I could understand. But you went on a neighbours property and had an accident. Did you expect him to ensure you were wearing the appropriate footwear and carry out a full risk assessment before asking you to help lift something?

Anyway I do sincerely wish you best of luck with the injury. I just don't agree with your approach to it.


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## galway_blow_in (2 Aug 2018)

Sunny said:


> "Spurious". I have an online reputation that I am very keen to protect. I am deeply offended and aggrieved. I feel like I have been libeled and I intend to defend my reputation. Maybe after you sue your neighbour, I could have my case against you heard against you on the same docket. Same you having to go to court another day.
> 
> You need to calm yourself down and concentrate on doing something productive until your recover from your debilitating injury. Maybe work on punctuation and forming sentences.
> 
> ...



so what if he didnt hide the block !

if i pull out of a side road onto a primary road and crash into another motorist , using the " i didnt do it on purpose " excuse wont in anyway shield me from the likely insurance claim , id like to see and hear you tell the other driver with the damaged car  they " took a risk when they got out of bed that morning "

your points are moronic and infantile and i dont for a second believe you would yourself take the medicine your prescribing  others , very few are so saintly they will incur a significant financial loss when it was caused by someone elses error


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## Ravima (2 Aug 2018)

Galway - what more advice/suggestions do you want? 

You were injured on a neighbours property; you feel he is at fault and my reading of the posts is, that he disagrees. 

If you want to sue, you can. If he is insured and his insurers come on board, then if you win your case, you will collect. If he is not insured or if the insurers do not come on board, you will have to collect any award from neighbour.


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## galway_blow_in (2 Aug 2018)

Ravima said:


> Galway - what more advice/suggestions do you want?
> 
> You were injured on a neighbours property; you feel he is at fault and my reading of the posts is, that he disagrees.
> 
> If you want to sue, you can. If he is insured and his insurers come on board, then if you win your case, you will collect. If he is not insured or if the insurers do not come on board, you will have to collect any award from neighbour.



thats how it will probably play out , il phone my solicitor next week to instruct him to send a second letter advising this person to get in touch with their insurance company , if they do nothing after a second letter , i will know they are dug in for a battle , il then probably leave it several months before deciding whether or not to take a civil action 

just find it tedious how some people flippantly tell you to put it down to bad luck or bend over backwards to explain away any care of duty or responsibility the other guy might have , almost as if the crisis here was his primarily , effectively portraying me as a trouble maker who at best created the problem by not doing a " proper risk assessment " or at worst as a con man out to fleece someone 

i dont like using that term " troll " but i dont believe many of the posters for a second would practice what they preach were they in the same boat as myself


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## T McGibney (2 Aug 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> just find it tedious how some people flippantly tell you to put it down to bad luck or bend over backwards to explain away any care of duty or responsibility the other guy might have , almost as if the crisis here was his primarily , effectively portraying me as a trouble maker who at best created the problem by not doing a " proper risk assessment " or at worst as a con man out to fleece someone
> 
> i dont like using that term " troll " but i dont believe many of the posters for a second would practice what they preach were they in the same boat as myself



You've spent days lashing out at a long line of people who made efforts here to assist and advise you. 

To label us as trolls is, in my opinion, unacceptable.

Time for this thread to be closed.


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## Brendan Burgess (2 Aug 2018)

T McGibney said:


> Time for this thread to be closed.



Good idea.


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