# Mutually Agreed Legal Separation. How to get this legally recognised?



## Mick31

Hi,
Just need some info on legal separation.  

Where two people mutually agree to separate and can work out their own terms, how do they go about getting this legally bound? 

Is there a "separation form" or something similar, or does it still have to go through solicitors?


Thanks


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*

There's a separation agreement. I imagine you would have to go to solicitors in order for it to be properly explained to you, and the terms agreed put in writing, the usual agreement to waive succession rights and future rights to property etc But where parties agree generally the fee is relatively small.


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## Mick31

*Re: Legal Separation*

Thanks.  Does that mean we can simply pop into a solicitor, and sign what's to be signed since we have already agreed on everything?  

I was looking for separation forms on the net, but all I found were the US separation and divorce forms.  I presume once filled they would not carry legal authority.

We already have our own paper version of the terms of separation (MS Word document), it's just getting it legally endorsed, if you know what I mean?


Thanks


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*

What do you mean by 'legally endorsed'? Do you mean your signatures witnessed? If so, the man off the street can do this for you.

If you mean you need a solicitor to put your vague agreement into a legally binding format and advise you as to your rights, both future and present, and protect your interests, then you will have to pay for that- a legal separation agreement.  I'm hearing from your post that you think since you have it all agreed that you should only have to pay a nominal fee ( or indeed download something from the internet and pay nothing at all), but in reality a relatively small fee now will save you potentially major problems in the future.


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## Mick31

*Re: Legal Separation*

Thanks Vanilla,

yes, that's what I meant - legally binding format.  

I did think it would be possible to do up agreement yourself as per standard template and register such a thing in court , which is the case in many countries around the world.  

Nevertheless, coming back to this....I presume we would then have to use different solicitors to get this arranged since one solicitor cannot give advise to both parties as he is supposed to act in the best interest of a client, am I correct in saying that?

When you say a small fee, are we talking about 50 or 500 euro???


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## D8Lady

*Re: Legal Separation*

Yes, you would both need seperate solicitors. One cannot represent both parties.


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## putsch

*Re: Legal Separation*

[broken link removed]

If you can agree terms  you are in a much better situation than other couples. I suggest you contact the family mediation service - they will help you draw up the necessary agreement and although it may ultimately need some legal intervention it will be much faster and cheaper if you agree through mediation first.

Good luck


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*

Suggest you get a recommendation for a good family law solicitor and then ring and ask for a quote. Normally one of you will instruct a solicitor, then that solicitor draws up the paperwork and arranges for the other party to see an independant solicitor to sign.


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## Thirsty

*Re: Legal Separation*

I would strongly recommend that you seek a Judicial Separation; a Separation Agreement is only good so long as both parties stick to what they have agreed, and all too frequently one or other party will start to act the maggot.

If you already have settlement terms agreed between you then getting a JS should only take you 10 mins in court.


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## Mick31

*Re: Legal Separation*

Interesting, and seems very straightforward. 

I kind of thought something like that would be possible. I just do not know what format they accept in court, is there a certain form or number of forms that are to be filled in as a requirement. I have no need whatsoever to use a solicitor since everything has been agreed. We registered for mediation in October and still waiting for them, that might happen in 2010!!!!! 

In the meantime I have come across a website with a very good explanation of separation agreement and what it stands for.

[broken link removed]


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## sinall

*Re: Legal Separation*

I know if you use collaboratively trained lawyers the whole process is amicable and costs a lot less than a contentious separation. A collaborative separation can only be done if both sides agree on everything and it sounds like you do.

I think you can get a list of collaborative family lawyers in Ireland from the Association of Collaborative Lawyers (or similar!)


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## bond-007

*Re: Legal Separation*



Kildrought said:


> I would strongly recommend that you seek a Judicial Separation; a Separation Agreement is only good so long as both parties stick to what they have agreed, and all too frequently one or other party will start to act the maggot.
> 
> If you already have settlement terms agreed between you then getting a JS should only take you 10 mins in court.



Are JS's now really outdated as divorce is now available. Would a divorce not be more cost effective than a JS?


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## mf1

*Re: Legal Separation*

Not everyone has the requisite 4 out of 5 years living apart. But does have a need to regulate matters formally. Be that by way of Agreement or Court order. And only a Court can make Pension Adjustment Orders.

And a big deterrent for many is ( suprisingly?/unsurprisingly?) opposition  to Divorce on relgious grounds. 

mf


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## Dreamerb

*Re: Legal Separation*



Mick31 said:


> I just do not know what format they accept in court, is there a certain form or number of forms that are to be filled in as a requirement. I have no need whatsoever to use a solicitor since everything has been agreed.


Those two statements seem decidedly at odds with each other!

Seriously, the fact that you are able to agree is great, but don't let that make you rule out having a solicitor. Solicitors may raise issues that you don't even realise need to be considered; you might think that everything's sorted but not have considered fees involved in any property transaction, or changing wills, or life assurance... all sorts of things. 

If you have the basics of your separation agreed, a solicitor will be able to ensure that it is clear and has legal effect (so if you're going to court later, either to divorce or because something has got messy, you can produce an agreement that the judge will actually have regard to). 

Paying a solicitor now may avoid future difficulties and much bigger expenses down the road. Even if you have no children, no property, and earn similar amounts (close to as simple as it can get), it's still worth getting advice to ensure you've considered everything and you're both protected. And it shouldn't be all that expensive either.


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## Bronte

*Re: Legal Separation*



D8Lady said:


> Yes, you would both need seperate solicitors. One cannot represent both parties.


Are you sure, what about when both parties agree? (I have close relations who did this and it's nearly 20 years ago)


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## mf1

*Re: Legal Separation*

If a solicitor is foolish enough to represent two people who have opposing needs, and if, in the future, one of those parties says, actually, now that I come to think of it, how can one solicitor honestly  act impartially on both sides? And if that person subsequently takes an action against the solicitor who did act for both, saying, you know, I'm not sure that I got a great deal and its your fault, a Court will almost always say, you know what? You should not act on  both sides. 

mf


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*



Bronte said:


> Are you sure, what about when both parties agree? (I have close relations who did this and it's nearly 20 years ago)


 
A lot of things are done differently now than they were 20 years ago. Back then it might have seemed acceptable, now it would be folly. Case law and legislation ( and law society regulations) have changed and are ever-evolving.


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## danash

*Re: Legal Separation*



Vanilla said:


> A lot of things are done differently now than they were 20 years ago. Back then it might have seemed acceptable, now it would be folly. Case law and legislation ( and law society regulations) have changed and are ever-evolving.


 

Isn't Family law 'in camera' - how could case law apply here when it is secret ?


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## j26

*Re: Legal Separation*



Kildrought said:


> I would strongly recommend that you seek a Judicial Separation; a Separation Agreement is only good so long as both parties stick to what they have agreed, and all too frequently one or other party will start to act the maggot.
> 
> If you already have settlement terms agreed between you then getting a JS should only take you 10 mins in court.



Most definitely - get the agreement made an order of the court.


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## sandrat

*Re: Legal Separation*



Bronte said:


> Are you sure, what about when both parties agree? (I have close relations who did this and it's nearly 20 years ago)


 
definately wouldnt recommend it, my mother in law had same counsel in a divorce case (not Ireland) and he advised her to leave with nothing from the relationship as husband was in debt meaning she didn't carry the debt and he advised the husband to declare bankruptcy. In the end years later it turns out they were never actually divorced and when he died she got everything and his kids got nothing because of some rule in the country where it all happened. same lawyer held the will from when they were married (never changed) and he was advising her to take the money and the kids to contest it!


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## Bronte

*Re: Legal Separation*

Well this case was highly unusual, two people who had to separate and didn't want to pay counsel, nor go to court,  nor get divorced and it's all worked out perfectly as they are still not talking 20 years later.  I think it cost 500 IEP and they both still use the same firm of solicitors albeit separately. Some people can actually split amicable even if not speaking.


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*



danash said:


> Isn't Family law 'in camera' - how could case law apply here when it is secret ?


 
The 'In Camera' rule means that the actual hearings ( for the most part) are heard in private, but some of the more important high court cases have been reported ( names removed etc). Plus normally your solicitor will have personal experience of trends/judgements in the area and will instruct an experienced barrister who may have up to 20 or 30 years of daily experience of judgements. So case law still very relevant in family law.


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## Vanilla

*Re: Legal Separation*



Bronte said:


> Well this case was highly unusual, two people who had to separate and didn't want to pay counsel, nor go to court, nor get divorced and it's all worked out perfectly as they are still not talking 20 years later. I think it cost 500 IEP and they both still use the same firm of solicitors albeit separately. Some people can actually split amicable even if not speaking.


 
It's not all that unusual. I remember when divorce first came in I had quite a number of uncontested cases where couples had been already separated for years and wanted divorces in order to remarry their new partners.


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## daveyk

*Re: Legal Separation*

My wife and I recently married and recently separated. Thankfully there are no children involved. She wants to just remain separated for the four years before applying for divorce but I’ve met with a family law solicitor who reckons that there are sufficient ground to apply for a nullity. Judging by statistics from the last number of years it is only granted in about 50% of cases. It would however be worth it in the long run. Can anyone tell me roughly what is the cost and timeframe for the for the process. Also are there any other options


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## MOB

*Re: Legal Separation*

Just to add a few words to what has already been stated:  the costs for an agreed\amicable separation agreement have gone up a little lately because the Law Society has recommended a change in practice.   

In the past, where two parties both instructed their respective solicitors along the lines "everything is agreed, we just want the agreement put in writing", the solicitors would do just that.  One meeting to take instructions, one meeting to sign agreement, fee as low as perhaps €500 + VAT (and possibly less on the part of the solicitor of the other spouse - who merely reviewed the agreement rather than preparing it)

Now, presumably because someone who did exactly the foregoing subsequently regretted their decision and blamed their solicitor, it is a best-practice requirement that both parties exchange affidavits of means.  

In other words, even if the husband says "I don't care what she has - I don't want any of it", the solicitor has a duty to ascertain exactly what it is that she has, so that the husband is on record as having made an informed decision.  Ditto for wife of course.  This may extend to getting property valuations etc.

This means that there is a bit of extra work involved on both sides.   So the days of getting things out of the way with one consultation to take details and one further consultation to sign the agreement are pretty much behind us ( actually, practice is not yet uniform on this - but what I have outlined is now recommended practice and will become standard)


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## NicolaM

*Re: Legal Separation*

Interesting, parties choosing to get separated, rather than divorced.

This must have large implications on inheritance, should one of them die, especially if there is another partner/family involved post separation.

In Bronte's (Or Mick's) case above, if one of the parties dies, will the second person not have inheritance rights..And has  this scenario been considered if so?

Nicola


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## mf1

*Re: Legal Separation*

"In Bronte's (Or Mick's) case above, if one of the parties dies, will the second person not have inheritance rights..And has this scenario been considered if so?"

The parties can agree, in the Separation Agreement, to waive their Succession Act rights so that the matter of inheritance is not an issue.

Lots of people choose separation over divorce, even where they have the requisite time period allowed. This can be on religious grounds or, what I find more often, whatever about a separation, one party will not even countenance divorce and will prove so awkward and difficult, that the other party will go for separation only. Agree on full and final settlement and then later, go for the divorce, which they will  get.

mf


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## NicolaM

*Re: Legal Separation*

Thanks Mf.

One of my friends mothers is in a similar position, having separated many years ago, but not divorced.

I would almost bet that they have not sorted out succession rights however, so he could be entitled to a claim on her property should she (God forbid) die.

Nicola


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## Bronte

*Re: Legal Separation*

In the case I outlined they agreed to keep the succession rights.  Now they are trying to outlive each other.........  but there might be nothing as for one everything was in property and the other shares.........

The reason for not going for divorce was not religious, it was, been there done that, got burnt, never again.


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## Belge

*Re: Legal Separation*



daveyk said:


> My wife and I recently married and recently separated. Thankfully there are no children involved. She wants to just remain separated for the four years before applying for divorce but I’ve met with a family law solicitor who reckons that there are sufficient ground to apply for a nullity. Judging by statistics from the last number of years it is only granted in about 50% of cases. It would however be worth it in the long run. Can anyone tell me roughly what is the cost and timeframe for the for the process. Also are there any other options


 
Apologies for revisiting an old post but I find myself in a very similar position to the attached quote. Can anybody please offer genuine advise on this? Thank you.


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