# Redundancy while posted abroad (EU)



## Savonarola (27 May 2011)

This is a difficult question (I think) as I’m in a very particular situation.

I lived in Ireland and worked for an Irish company for a good number of years. Two and a half years ago I was posted abroad (within in EU), holding an Irish E101 form (now A1 form), meaning that the company continued to pay PRSI in Ireland for me. The E101 expired after two years and under new EEU legislation (European Union Regulation 883/2004), which came into effect on 1st May 2010, the company were now obliged to register and start paying Social Welfare in my country of posting, where I still live.

To the best of my knowledge, they may have completed the registration but I doubt they paid any Social Welfare contribution in my country of posting. I reminded them several times about that with no effect. 

Three months after the E101 expired, the company started to have financial problems and stopped paying salaries. I continued working for another 2 months without being paid, I was subsequently laid-off for 1 month and finally I was sent a Certificate of Redundancy (form RP50) with part A and B completed, declaring that the company cannot pay statutory redundancy for reason of insolvency. The company resists being officially declared insolvent and there is no liquidator/receiver appointed.

I sent a claim to the Rights Commissioner in Ireland for the owed salaries and I’m waiting for a reply. I will also submit the RP50 to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, being aware that I won’t be able to claim any money from the Social Insurance Fund until the company submits a letter from an accountant or solicitor stating that is unable to pay, plus audited accounts.

I have some Euro-million questions for someone with a bit of knowledge in EU/Irish employment law:

1. Do I qualify for redundancy in Ireland, giving that the first condition is: “You must be in employment that is insurable under the Social Welfare Acts. Full-time employees must be paying Class A PRSI.”? 

I’m not sure if the insurable condition is “at the time of redundancy”, because I was insured all the years I worked except the last 3 or 4 months when there was a gap due to the company’s negligence. I did receive the last P60 for 2010 with all my contributions for that year.

2. If that’s not the case, where then? Do I qualify for redundancy in the country of posting (where I live)? I did very little research about that, but the first thing they told me is that if I have an Irish contract, which I do, I must make my claim in Ireland. Which I think makes more sense, considering that the company is Irish and it has no business outside Ireland.

3. Will this affect in any way my case to the Rights Commissioner for the unpaid salaries?

I really appreciate some expert comments on this.


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## Ildánach (30 May 2011)

The general rule is that the insurable employment condition is at the  time of redundancy (and obviously for a period prior to the redundancy).

I'm no expert, although I would have thought that you are now outside  the realms of the Irish social insurance system and that your claim for  redundancy and for payment of outstanding wages would be made through  the country of your posting, where you would now be considered to be  employed.  I will dig out the Posted Worker Regs and post them up here  when i get a minute to see if they say anything contrary to this.

Here's a link to the Department of Social Protection wesbite on  International postings, although i don't see your particular  circumstances dealt with  http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/intposts/Pages/intindex.aspx

I did notice the following though, which perhaps should have happened



> *Q9    HOW  LONG  DOES  AN  E101  CERTIFICATE/A1  PORTABLE  DOCUMENT   LAST? *
> 
> *A    *     An E101 Certificate/A1 Portable Document is valid  for any period up to twenty four months.  In certain circumstances, it  is possible to extend this period.  If this is necessary, you should  contact International Postings Section, Department of Social  Protection.  This should be done *in advance *of the E101  Certificate/A1 Portable Document expiring.  This Department will  contact the Social Security Authorities in the State where you are  working, requesting their mutual consent for you to continue to remain  subject to Irish Social insurance for a further temporary period.   Confirmation from the authorities in the other State may take time.   Please note, extending temporary postings cannot continue  indefinitely



It may be that this is something that you need to negotiate with the  Department, and if the company should have, and could have, made an  application for an extension of the posting, then it may be that you can get  yourself back into the Irish insurance system and have that decision  acted upon retrospectively by the Department.

You may also have a civil remedy against the company.  Sounds like you  need yourself a lawyer.  Are you a member of a Union, if so they could  have their legal team look at it for you.

Other people that could perhaps help

National Employment Rights Authority  1890 808090
European Commission office  01 634 1111
Irish Migrant Rights Centre  01 889 7570
Immgiration Council of Ireland  *01 674 0200*


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## Ildánach (30 May 2011)

This is from the legislative guide from one of the links above



> When it can be foreseen (or becomes clear after the posting period has already
> commenced) that the activity will take more than 24 months, the employer or the
> person concerned shall submit, without delay, a request to the competent authority
> in the Member State whose legislation the person concerned wishes to apply to
> ...


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## Ildánach (30 May 2011)

As the new Regs are only recently in force, it may also be that you can be consdidered under the old Regs if these are more beneficial (don't ask me if this is the case though!!!)  See point 15 of this guide  http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/intposts/Documents/practical_guide_part_1_2.pdf

This is very technical, I would again emphasise that you probably need professional legal advice.


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## Savonarola (30 May 2011)

Thanks a lot for the info and advice, this confirms my worst fears. I'll have to start a new chapter and see what can be done in this (posted) country. 

First of all I'll try to find legal advice. I'll update the thread if there is anything that might be useful for other people.


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