# Age 60 want money for a holiday and to do some renovations



## BrenWW

So where are we at re the LifeLoan / Fair deal ? In simple terms a couple (60) with no family who want to preferably stay in their house, do renovations ,and have some spare cash to travel when Covid has been handled. What are the options?


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## RedOnion

@BrenWW 
There's an interesting thread on the implications of FairDeal: https://askaboutmoney.com/threads/fair-deal-scheme-and-life-loans.222183/

I would caution that 60 years of age is very early to start looking at an option such as this, and you should look at other options.  Downsizing home would probably be a better option to consider.


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> So where are we at re the LifeLoan / Fair deal ? In simple terms a couple (60) with no family who want to preferably stay in their house, do renovations ,and have some spare cash to travel when Covid has been handled. What are the options?


Seriously.  Can you give us details, full details.  It's impossible to advice without them.  Have a look at the money makeover thread to get the gist on what info you need to give us.


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## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Seriously.  Can you give us details, full details.  It's impossible to advice without them.  Have a look at the money makeover thread to get the gist on what info you need to give us.


I had tried to make my request simple. Don't know if this is what you're talking about, but here goes.. 60, on pup at the moment,zero savings left due to covid, don't know if business will return after covid so saw the Seniors money ad and thought about it but decided to research and someone else mentioned the Fair Deal but that just seems to pay out monthly rather than a lump sum.Asked solicitor and money advisor and both had no great knowledge/experience of Equity Release products. Want to renovate and have some holiday money as well.Don't really want to go to the hassle of moving/downsizing as local prices don't seem to be that great and renovations would give the place a new lease of life. Banks don't let you remortgage over 55, so are there any other choices left except a 'Deal with the devil' ?? (http and www before this)       kisbridgingloans.co.uk/equity-release-lifetime-mortgages/equity-release-companies-to-avoid/


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## _OkGo_

Brendan has an excellent post here that you should read





						My complaint to RTE about the programme on Life Loans
					

Note: The first two posts are very long.  But it's necessary.  I have today sent this email to RTE.  To: Lisa Marie-Berry , Producer LiveLine  by email to: complaints@rte.ie; joe@rte.ie; Rebecca.meehan@rte.ie; lisamarie.berry@rte.ie    From: Brendan Burgess   2nd  February 2021  Hi Lisa-Marie  I...



					www.askaboutmoney.com
				




In particular, this section regarding the reasons for taking out a life loan


Brendan Burgess said:


> *9. The final question you might be facing now is whether you should take out a Lifetime Loan today from the new company Spry Finance which is also known as Seniors Money? *
> 
> There is nothing at all wrong with Lifetime mortgages. As I said earlier, in the UK there are at least 13 lenders providing them and 40,000 older people took out lifetime mortgages last year alone.
> 
> These loans are worth considering for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Fixing up your home to make it warmer or more comfortable or to put in a toilet downstairs
> Helping your child get on the housing ladder
> Paying for health expenses not covered by insurance
> You should not take out one of these loans or any loan for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> To buy a new car
> To go on holiday
> To pay for a child’s wedding
> To redesign your patio and garden
> To lend to your child to clear their business debts
> To lend to your child to invest in their business
> To make an investment – it’s unlikely that the returns on the investment will cover the interest rate
> If you are not paying for these with cash, then say “I can’t afford it.”
> 
> But if you do need to fix up your home, see if there is any other way to do it



If you really need the renovations, then consider the product but you should not be using it to go on holidays if you don't have any other means to pay for it.



BrenWW said:


> someone else mentioned the Fair Deal but that just seems to pay out monthly rather than a lump sum.


I don't think you understand what the Fair Deal Scheme is. It is for nursing home care only. It is not going to pay out anything to you. It covers the costs of nursing home care if you cannot afford it


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> I had tried to make my request simple. Don't know if this is what you're talking about, but here goes.. 60, on pup at the moment,zero savings left due to covid, don't know if business will return after covid so saw the Seniors money ad and thought about it but decided to research and someone else mentioned the Fair Deal but that just seems to pay out monthly rather than a lump sum.Asked solicitor and money advisor and both had no great knowledge/experience of Equity Release products. Want to renovate and have some holiday money as well.Don't really want to go to the hassle of moving/downsizing as local prices don't seem to be that great and renovations would give the place a new lease of life. Banks don't let you remortgage over 55, so are there any other choices left except a 'Deal with the devil' ?? (http and www before this)       kisbridgingloans.co.uk/equity-release-lifetime-mortgages/equity-release-companies-to-avoid/


What is your income.  What are your savings. How much is your house worth. How big is it.  Does it require a lot of maintanance, will it require a lot of maintanance going forward.  What renovations are you planning and at what cost.  How much would a suitable house in your area cost.   Do you have any borrowings/loans.  Have you any money out of your income that could be used to pay down a loan.  

Others are more expert on Fair Deal but I don't think from the above you understand what the FD is about.  But it seems if you do necessary repairs on your house than you should keep the receipts and then FD will ignore you getting a life loan.  

Did you visit both a solicitor and a Finance advisor already. Did you have to pay them fo their 'non' advice.  

Could you tell us what you think a Life Loan is, have you read the brochure.  

Try and answer all the above. It's not about keeping it simple.  The details are important.


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## BrenWW

Bronte ..Your Q's 
1) Income - Pup
2) Savings - None, paying bills off Pup
3) House - E400-600k on similar local properties
4) 220m2 split level
5) Built '80,requires major upgrade, d/glazing, BER work,plumbing,rewiring..then it's good for ** years.....or it could be sold. I wouldn't be giving carte blanche to a builder either, can do a lot myself and I'd be aiming for the minimum to make it look good
6) Similar properties E400-800k in the area  
7) Work vehicle on finance, suspended for 6 mths (+?)
8) No excess from Pup or anything to pay back a loan
I had the idea that Fair Deal was connected to needing old age care so I wasn't far out
My Solicitor/FA - just phoned them, no charge
As BB said 400k in the UK availed of Life loans last year ,thats .06% of UK population so that percentage would give you c.3k  Irish based on .06% the Irish  population, and the UK has more 'reputable/known' companies in their market 
 w.aviva.co.uk/retirement/equity-release/  
w.standardlife.co.uk/equity-release/what-is-equity-release
Seniors money site  w.seniorsmoney.ie/
Irish Times w.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/seniors-money-reopens-reverse-mortgage-loans-for-over-60s-1.4449683


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## RedOnion

BrenWW said:


> 2) Savings - None, paying bills off Pup


Do you have any form of pension savings?


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## Purple

BrenWW said:


> don't know if business will return after covid


"After Covid" will be within the next 6-9 months. Why not wait until then to see if you need to do this? You won't be going on any holidays until then anyway.
It seems rather rash to go down this path unless there's something I'm missing.
At 60 with no savings or income affording a holiday is the least of your worries.


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> 2) Savings - None, paying bills off Pup
> 3) House - E400-600k on similar local properties
> 4) 220m2 split level
> 5) Built '80,requires major upgrade, d/glazing, BER work,plumbing,rewiring..then it's good for ** years.....or it could be sold. I wouldn't be giving carte blanche to a builder either, can do a lot myself and I'd be aiming for the minimum to make it look good
> 6) Similar properties E400-800k in the area


2. What bills are you paying off.
3. that's a very wide margin there between €400K and €600K. How much would the renovation cost? Sounds like a very expensive job to me.   What work are you able to do.  Do you have a garage, a part of your house suitable to change into a self contained unit.

Can you tell us the actual income coming into the house and for how many people.

If your house is worth 600K, you would be better off downsizing to a 300K house and supplementing you income with the remaining 300K.  If you live to 80 it would give you 15K per annum.

You can get a very decent house in Cork, Limerick, Galway or Waterford for 300K. Less if you're smart.  If you're really smart you can buy one with a self contained, attached unit, where you can earn good rental with zero tax.

Make sure you are going to be entitled to a full Irish pension.  Which I think is age 66 fo you.  Have you looked into your PRSI records for pension.


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## BrenWW

Bills are electric /groceries and fuel, the 200k is the variation in prices around here depending on the location and condition... I'm pricing stuff I'd need, to see if putting say 50k in renovations would yield an extra 200k in the sale?? And now that we're locked down is a good time to tackle renovations before 'work' interrupts things. Why pay a tradesman 100/hr when you can do it yourself.... ?
I have pared things to the bone, and looked at all the other options but this equity release would mean that at least I'd have a house worth selling for a good price rather than a 'fire sale/fixer upper' that would benefit someone else and leave me with very little....


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## niceoneted

youve said 400- 600 k then 400-800k for value on the house. Why not go with facts. get an estate agent out to value your home and then you know where you stand. Have you a partner or are you solo. Is the mortgage paid off?


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Bills are electric /groceries and fuel, the 200k is the variation in prices around here depending on the location and condition... I'm pricing stuff I'd need, to see if putting say 50k in renovations would yield an extra 200k in the sale?? And now that we're locked down is a good time to tackle renovations before 'work' interrupts things. Why pay a tradesman 100/hr when you can do it yourself.... ?
> I have pared things to the bone, and looked at all the other options but this equity release would mean that at least I'd have a house worth selling for a good price rather than a 'fire sale/fixer upper' that would benefit someone else and leave me with very little....


You've very vague with figures and I've tried many times.  

As for why pay a tradesman, I say why bother to do anything at all when you can move now. You're all over the place on this.  Breakdown the 50K.  Breakdown your outgoings, income.  

Are you seriously going to borrow money, renovate, sell.  With a Life Loan.  While worring about the next person, whom you don't know, benefiting from a fixer upper.  

How is it a fire sale?

And if you think 400K isn't a good price what is a good price.


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## Bronte

niceoneted said:


> youve said 400- 600 k then 400-800k for value on the house. Why not go with facts. get an estate agent out to value your home and then you know where you stand. Have you a partner or are you solo. Is the mortgage paid off?



Facts would be nice.


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## _OkGo_

Bronte said:


> You've very vague with figures and I've tried many times.



I have to agree with Bronte on this. Your thought process is all over the place. You are not clear on what you actually want to do with the property or what the local area prices are. Similar properties would have plus or minus 10-20k. They would not have a range of 400-800k. Properties may have sold within that range but they are not similar to your property, they are just nearby.

If your plan is to renovate and live there as in your initial post, then the life loan is a suitable option for you. 
If you plan to do a deep DIY upgrade to increase the sale value, I think it is a bad idea. You are not going to add 200k value for 50k cost and some DIY. Any potential buyers would want to see certification to ensure standards are met. You will need a lot of professional work anyway in terms of electrics and plumbing, insulation. And it is a huge house at 220sqm so €50k is unlikely to put a dent in anything other than cosmetic changes
If your plan is to sell and downsize, do some cosmetic work (cleaning/painting etc) and get it valued. Don't take out a life loan to do this


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## BrenWW

'If your plan is to renovate and live there as in your initial post, then the life loan is a suitable option for you.' ..Thanks _OkGo_ , that's the best solution I can see myself. Bigger house behind me €1.3mil / refurb cottage beside me €400k so ....how is anybody to really value the house/view? I wouldn't pay €1.3mil because I don't like the design/layout but his view is better than mine,the cottage was a bit of a money pit I think and I would have done it differently but the view was why he bought it. 
I'll get estimates anyway to get an idea of costs before I proceed. It'd be better if there were a number of equity providers in the market though, just for competition.... 
Seniors website spryfinance.ie/the-process/?gclid=CjwKCAiAsOmABhAwEiwAEBR0Zsr-FaGCIb9X0RRtfaLjRGszMafIyHyHhIYR_xQC9vhAPrlx1XZywxoCZLQQAvD_BwE


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## Purple

BrenWW said:


> how is anybody to really value the house/view?


Ask 2 or 3 Estate Agents.


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## Bronte

Purple said:


> Ask 2 or 3 Estate Agents.


 It has to be valued for the Life Loan that way too. Anyway it's clear Bren didn't come on here for financial advice as he's already decided what he's doing.   Which sounds like a complete and utter disaster based on the bits of information not forthcoming.


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## BrenWW

The title wasn't mine, it was moved from the Life loan thread to a separate thread. My original request was 'In simple terms a couple (60) with no family who want to preferably stay in their house, do renovations ,and have some spare cash to travel when Covid has been handled. What are the options?' meaning was there any other alternatives to the Spry/Seniors Equity release company in Ireland for getting funds to repair the house and some spare cash to do other 'normal' things. Then when the house is in a saleable state decide what to do next, 1) Sell it, payback the loan and downsize?  2)Pay back the interest annually ( would that be higher than other personal/mortgage loans interest? )....That was all I wanted to know


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## RedOnion

BrenWW said:


> What are the options?


You haven't provided any information that might help point out what other options might be available.

If you have an income, get a conventional loan.
If you have a pension, look at accessing the lump sum early, or borrowing now with the aim of repaying from the pension lump sum.

At 60 years of age, these products will only allow you to access a very small percentage of the equity in your home, and will limit your options in future.  60 is far too young in my view to be looking at them, except in very extreme circumstances.


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## BrenWW

Extreme is a mild word, it seems some think I'm sitting on a box of cash I don't realise is under me..... 'Income' as I've said a few times is the Pup payment, and I'm not sure if my business will bounce back after Covid..'Pension' is state pension at 66, no 'lump sum' there.The 'Equity release checker' that I checked on a UK site was smaller than I thought, so I'll wait for them to send me the info and take it from there. I will phone a local auctioneer to get his valuation, and see if he'd recommend  spending 60k if it increased my value by 120k....
Q. If I borrowed 100k from bank, or the Equity co , who would I owe more to after 10 years... IF the bank did 10 year loans..


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## Purple

There is no way you should even be considering taking out a long term loan to go on a holiday so knock that on the head straight away.

You don't know what your financial situation will be in 6 months when the Covid restrictions are lifted. Your business may recover or it may not. Therefore it is premature to be making any longer term financial decisions until then.

My advice is to forget about this whole idea until then.


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> I will phone a local auctioneer to get his valuation, and see if he'd recommend  spending 60k if it increased my value by 120k....



This has all the hallmarks of your phone calls to the solicitor and the financial advisor.  How do you think an auctioneer would be able to categorically figure out that spending 60K gains you 120K. Especially as you've no idea what you are doing.


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> 5) Built '80,requires major upgrade, d/glazing, BER work,plumbing,rewiring..then it's good for ** years.....or it could be sold. I wouldn't be giving carte blanche to a builder either, can do a lot myself and I'd be aiming for the minimum to make it look good


Your solicitor and Financial advisor weren't able to deal with you.  AAM isn't either. Next a madcap approach to an auctioneer and a builder dealing with you would want his head examined. You either hire a builder to do the job or you hire tradesman to do jobs, the very idea that a builder would do a bit of this and a bit of that with you doing a bit of this and that is a sure fire way to a bad relationship and loads of money being wasted.  We've gone from spending a minimum to make it look good costing 60K to increase it's value by 120K.  Totally contradicted by you tellin us it needs

- 220m2 house needing new windows
- BER (presumably insulation)
- Plumbing
- rewiring

And mad valuations from 400K to 800K swinging in the wind.


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## shweeney

BrenWW said:


> I will phone a local auctioneer to get his valuation, and see if he'd recommend  spending 60k if it increased my value by 120k....



I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who had increased the value of their house by 200% the cost of the renovations. It's the sort of thing people in _Location Location Location_ suggest before being shot down by Kirstie Allsop


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## Purple

shweeney said:


> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who had increased the value of their house by 200% the cost of the renovations. It's the sort of thing people in _Location Location Location_ suggest before being shot down by Kirstie Allsop


I think everyone would be interested in that. It would probably involve stolen materials and slave labour but let's not get all judgemental about it.


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## SparkRite

shweeney said:


> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who had increased the value of their house by 200% the cost of the renovations.


Lets be fair here, first off the OP is looking for a profit of 100% of their investment for renovations, €60K -> 120K not 200%



BrenWW said:


> House - E400-600k on similar local properties



So, lets go in the middle, say €500K plus 60K on renovations equal a total of €560K 'invested' in the property.
He then hopes to sell at €560 + €60K = €620K
Which gives an overall percentage "_increase in value of their house" _of  9.8% above what it now 'stands' him.

Or look at it this way, for an outlay of €60K he hopes to increase the value of his house by 24% to €620K.

Either way it is long way from the newspaper style sensationalism of the 200% mentioned above.


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## PGF2016

SparkRite said:


> Lets be fair here, first off the OP is looking for a profit of 100% of their investment for renovations, €60K -> 120K not 200%
> 
> 
> 
> So, lets go in the middle, say €500K plus 60K on renovations equal a total of €560K 'invested' in the property.
> He then hopes to sell at €560 + €60K = €620K
> Which gives an overall percentage "_increase in value of their house" _of  9.8% above what it now 'stands' him.
> 
> Or look at it this way, for an outlay of €60K he hopes to increase the value of his house by 24% to €620K.
> 
> Either way it is long way from the newspaper style sensationalism of the 200% mentioned above.



The goal posts have moved. At first it was spend 50k to get 200. Then spend 60k to get 120k. I think the 200 was taken from this quote:


BrenWW said:


> I'm pricing stuff I'd need, to see if putting say 50k in renovations would yield an extra 200k in the sale


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## PGF2016

Comment deleted after reading again.


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## SparkRite

PGF2016 said:


> The goal posts have moved. At first it was spend 50k to get 200. Then spend 60k to get 120k. I think the 200 was taken from this quote:


Ah right, missed that one..........


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## BrenWW

SparkRite said:


> Lets be fair here, first off the OP is looking for a profit of 100% of their investment for renovations, €60K -> 120K not 200%
> 
> 
> 
> So, lets go in the middle, say €500K plus 60K on renovations equal a total of €560K 'invested' in the property.
> He then hopes to sell at €560 + €60K = €620K
> Which gives an overall percentage "_increase in value of their house" _of  9.8% above what it now 'stands' him.
> 
> Or look at it this way, for an outlay of €60K he hopes to increase the value of his house by 24% to €620K.
> 
> Either way it is long way from the newspaper style sensationalism of the 200% mentioned above.


Thanks for that.  The money I was intending to borrow was not for 'a (grand) holiday' as some suggested but majorly to bring the house up to a comfortable/BER /saleable condition as nothing's been done to it in 40 years,  and also to try to live life without worrying about the next bill (Last ESB bill for 60 days was €950....improving BER and getting SEAI grants would lower my bills) ,and perhaps have an overseas holiday once a year... Not too much to ask for as others, some on welfare, seem to have more comfort than me.. 
Regarding local properties,  another 6 bed house has come on market at €450k just across from the €1+mil 5bed property so I'll dig deep to see why there's such a difference.  
I can see no other way except the life loan,  and my last question was would people pay more interest on a mortgage over the same time period?


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Last ESB bill for 60 days was €950....improving BER and getting SEAI grants would lower my bills


- what type of heating have you?
- when did you last read your meter.
- can you ask the ESB to spread out your annual bill to an equal bill every two months.
- For example January 950, March 100, May 100, July 100, Sept 100 Nov 500 = 1850 Divided by 6 bimonthly bills is a much more maneagable 308 Euro.  Maybe the ESB allows you to pay monthly.  Such schemes exist in various formats.


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## _OkGo_

BrenWW said:


> (Last ESB bill for 60 days was €950


How is that even possible?? That is almost my entire bill for the year for both heat and electricity!

I can sense your frustration but I think you need to sit down and really think about how you will get the most value in your retirement. Whether you sell or renovate and stay, you will need the property valued so start with some calls to estate agents to get a better idea of what that figure actually is.

If they say it is only worth €400k, you can potentially borrow 15% of that so €60k. If the bills are as bad as you say, the property is in need of a deep retrofit and it is much more than a DIY job. You really need professional work for all plumbing, electrics and insulation. Unless you are a qualified tradesperson, you should not be doing any of that as you will not add value to the property. Your DIY input should be reserved to decoration/painting and external landscape/maintenance. To bring a 220sqm property up to any reasonable BER rating will take well in excess of the €60k so you need to think very carefully about whether it is the right solution for you. Anyone willing to buy and do a €200k renovation will be ripping out what you put in so I don't think you will add much value with a DIY job

Probably the better option is to seriously consider downsizing without doing any work to your property. Your bills are high because of very poor insulation and a property that is far too big for 2 people. If you downsized to a €250-300k property that is more modern, your bills will be normal giving you more cash leftover from income or pension in time to come and you will also have the lump sum from the sale to enjoy those holidays that you want. You might have to make some sacrifices in terms of location and views but I would rather be warm and comfortable in the middle of winter and visit the scenic spots than sit in an icebox looking out at it.


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Regarding local properties,  another 6 bed house has come on market at €450k just across from the €1+mil 5bed property so I'll dig deep to see why there's such a difference.


What valuation did you put on your property for the Property Tax? How did you value it?


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## Bronte

SparkRite said:


> Lets be fair here, first off the OP is looking for a profit of 100% of their investment for renovations, €60K -> 120K not 200%
> 
> 
> 
> So, lets go in the middle, say €500K plus 60K on renovations equal a total of €560K 'invested' in the property.
> He then hopes to sell at €560 + €60K = €620K
> Which gives an overall percentage "_increase in value of their house" _of  9.8% above what it now 'stands' him.
> 
> Or look at it this way, for an outlay of €60K he hopes to increase the value of his house by 24% to €620K.
> 
> Either way it is long way from the newspaper style sensationalism of the 200% mentioned above.



If his house is worth 500K he'd be mad to borrow a Life Loan. Instead he'd be better off selling. Not borrowing at all. Purchasing a house for 300K or less. Giving him 5K annually for the next 20 years for a sun holiday.  Plus 5K annually for the next 20 years for heating bils.  And if he purchased wisely, the 300K would have an income built in of another 10K say in rent a room, tax free.  

Do you honestly think he can put in new windows, new plumbing, new wiring and renovate something of 220m2 that hasn't been touched in 40 years for 60K.

If he borrows a Life Loan he's snookered. He has to stay put, have one holiday and have not a penny extra other than PUP, a growing debt on his only asset and not a hope of fixing anything in the house if he needs to going forward.


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## dereko1969

@OP What industry is your business in? People might be able to give more advice on the medium term prospects for it if they knew that.

Also, I don't see it confirmed but presumably there is no existing mortgage on the house? You don't seem to have answered why you're so averse to downsizing? 

Just in relation to your own point about not liking the layout of the 1.3m property nearby, do you not think if you refurbish to your own taste that that might limit the people interested in buying your place, whereas if you sell it as is it would give them the opportunity to upgrade to their own taste?


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## SparkRite

Bronte said:


> Do you honestly think he can put in new windows, new plumbing, new wiring and renovate something of 220m2 that hasn't been touched in 40 years for 60K


I never once suggested, intimated or even hinted that he could. In fact I fully agree with what you have said so-far.

I'm just at a loss as to why you quoted my post and then followed up as you did?


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## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> - what type of heating have you?
> - when did you last read your meter.
> - can you ask the ESB to spread out your annual bill to an equal bill every two months.
> - For example January 950, March 100, May 100, July 100, Sept 100 Nov 500 = 1850 Divided by 6 bimonthly bills is a much more maneagable 308 Euro.  Maybe the ESB allows you to pay monthly.  Such schemes exist in various formats.


Good idea to start with, like the old shilling in the gas meter job. I know in 'summer' the ESB is about €3.50/day, winter can be €12/day so some levelling out would help,  their site shows my usage so it could be done.


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## BrenWW

Any figures I quoted re renovation costs were picked from the sky, it could be 200k AFIK... I'm currently doing a detailed list and making phone calls re windows etc. Sentimental house in good location, spaced out neighbours (not that spaced out  ), is holding me back but am checking sites and Nordic prefab houses - norskehus.no as an alternative,  good site + house = €200k built,  but in reality we won't be leaving the property to the state or anyone when we go so not worried about a 'wooden house' lasting 50 years


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## Pinoy adventure

It's safe too say I am completely confused.
Op best of luck with your home,hopefully it all works out for you


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## BrenWW

Pinoy adventure said:


> It's safe too say I am completely confused.
> Op best of luck with your home,hopefully it all works out for you


Choice 1 was borrow enough thru Equity release, plus a bit extra, to make (sentimental attachment) house habitable/saleable 
Choice 2 was to sell it as is, buy a plot of land and get Norwegian prefab and have money in the bank.


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## PGF2016

BrenWW said:


> Last ESB bill for 60 days was €950....


Wow. Are you mining for bitcoin? How on earth is it that much?


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## BrenWW

PGF2016 said:


> Wow. Are you mining for bitcoin? How on earth is it that much?


I'm charging up the flux capacitor on my DeLorean to travel back to last year to buy a Euro millions winning ticket.... 
There you have my dilemma, get my costs down and I can afford to stay put rather than the unneeded hassle of the big move and being in limbo between houses for weeks+....
Another feature on equity release,  but we've only one provider here, and a useless Financial Regulator.  .goodhousekeeping.com/uk/consumer-advice/money/a30896158/equity-release/


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## Buddyboy

BrenWW, 
I've been watching this thread, and I think what happened/is happening is that you opened the thread/the thread was split off with one option, life loan for refurbishment and a holiday.  This is possibly number 5 on the actual list of options you have (number 1 being stay put and do nothing, 10 being knock the house down and live in a caravan. (excuse the hyperbole)). 

When questioned on this option, you got a lot of push back, as people were considering only that option, a lifeloan.

That has pushed you back to considering other possible options (see  to 10 above). You may have already been doing that in your head/back of a fag packet. 
What I guess is actually happening is that you are basically wondering where to go from here?

It might be an idea to do a money makeover thread on here and that will better help everybody to examine all your options and see which is the best one for you.  This will set out your current financial state and also what you hope to achieve.  I've seen it work wonders to clarify the issue.


----------



## Bronte

Buddyboy said:


> It might be an idea to do a money makeover thread on here and that will better help everybody to examine all your options and see which is the best one for you.  This will set out your current financial state and also what you hope to achieve.  I've seen it work wonders to clarify the issue.



He was already asked this by me at post 3.  He made a half hearted attempt at it, or in answering any suggestions, so good luck with your suggestion.


----------



## niceoneted

This thread is like marmite!


----------



## phoenix53

It can’t be a genuine question with a real wish for an answer surely?  All attempts to help are batted to the side and more confusion added with each post.  My head’s melted at this stage and I’m genuinely concerned for the op and his partner and the disastrous decisions they could be about to make..


----------



## Buddyboy

Everybody is assuming it's a "he"  
I see it as someone, in their 60s who has a lot of time on their hands during covid, is probably cocooning at home and looking around for things to do. If that includes "shooting the breeze" on the internet like they used to do in the pub, then so be it. 
They found us and decided to ask for some information. (reading back on the thread, it was hived off from lifeloans thread, hence the starting point).
We appear to be very problem focused here, "tell me your problem and I'll suggest solutions". "tell me your idea and I'll critique it". 
Maybe their approach is a bit odd, or we're picking it up that way, but I can still see someone who is kicking around ideas. Some of them daft, in our eyes, but it's a lot cheaper to kick them around here with us than start down the road of either life loans or renovations without doing so.

Have you ever come out with a daft statement in the pub with your mates, only for it to wander around the houses and arrive at something really useful?   Like "I'm thinking of opening up the roof and putting a spiral staircase up to a viewing gallery". By the end of the night, and a few too many pints in, you arrive at the conclusion that it might not be such a good idea, but a platform up in the tree at the bottom of the garden with a comfy chair and a telescope (for stargazing) is actually a runner.

Anyway, I'm happy to keep listening to the OP and kick around the suggestions.

Anyway, it's Friday, I'm off to the pub,

Oh wait


----------



## BrenWW

Buddyboy said:


> BrenWW,
> I've been watching this thread, and I think what happened/is happening is that you opened the thread/the thread was split off with one option, life loan for refurbishment and a holiday.  This is possibly number 5 on the actual list of options you have (number 1 being stay put and do nothing, 10 being knock the house down and live in a caravan. (excuse the hyperbole)).
> 
> When questioned on this option, you got a lot of push back, as people were considering only that option, a lifeloan.
> 
> That has pushed you back to considering other possible options (see  to 10 above). You may have already been doing that in your head/back of a fag packet.
> What I guess is actually happening is that you are basically wondering where to go from here?
> 
> It might be an idea to do a money makeover thread on here and that will better help everybody to examine all your options and see which is the best one for you.  This will set out your current financial state and also what you hope to achieve.  I've seen it work wonders to clarify the issue.


OK, 'blood from a stone' as Bronte might say. Back in the day I was able to make extra cash buying/fixing/selling cars alongside the day job, took early retirement and a small lump that I put into being a sole trader. Car business dried up and I was left with a few yokes that stood me 20k and basically scrapped them after a few years of fruitless ads,  so did a few summer jobs to supplement income. Then along came a few unexpected disasters with the cars  I was using, new engine /transmission/ turbos etc took about 15-20k over the next few years, now have a new yoke but Covid struck so have a hold on repayments, but for how long???Bottom line is that I was working 7/7 before Covid but discovered that all in all I'd be better off on the dole/pup because of all my expenses meant that I was only earning the basic wage for all the 7/7 effort and thought that fixing up the house would possibly be more profitable re saving energy costs as a start and making it more saleable if we decided on that route.   Money makeover...? 'Scrooge/Cheap Charlie' sums up my title in the house, washing machine is Hoover Twin Tub 1960 ,nearly as old as myself, only reason cooker/fridge isn't as old is I couldn't get spares..  The wheels would have been as old if I didn't need it for business over the years, so you can see I'm not flaithiúlacht with the cash. Saving on energy is my main focus via insulation / double glazing / making rooms 'warmer' with a dividing curtain ...  but I need money even to do that so it's Catch 22, need cash before I can save cash..... SEAI do grants but they still don't pay for all, and even going on the dole to get it done isn't an option because they'd probably say I have a big place. I will also say that this current lockdown means that a hell of a lot are probably in a similar situation. I compare neighbours in say Finglas and Foxrock who used socialise together, in Finglas you might have a barman and a council worker as neighbours, in Foxrock it could be a pilot and a senior public servant. Covid has caused the barman and pilot to lose their income while the council worker and senior public servant have been earning their regular salaries and have been able to save loads becasue they can't spend it.. Back to the drawing board.....


----------



## BrenWW

Buddyboy said:


> Everybody is assuming it's a "he"
> I see it as someone, in their 60s who has a lot of time on their hands during covid, is probably cocooning at home and looking around for things to do. If that includes "shooting the breeze" on the internet like they used to do in the pub, then so be it.
> They found us and decided to ask for some information. (reading back on the thread, it was hived off from lifeloans thread, hence the starting point).
> We appear to be very problem focused here, "tell me your problem and I'll suggest solutions". "tell me your idea and I'll critique it".
> Maybe their approach is a bit odd, or we're picking it up that way, but I can still see someone who is kicking around ideas. Some of them daft, in our eyes, but it's a lot cheaper to kick them around here with us than start down the road of either life loans or renovations without doing so.
> 
> Have you ever come out with a daft statement in the pub with your mates, only for it to wander around the houses and arrive at something really useful?   Like "I'm thinking of opening up the roof and putting a spiral staircase up to a viewing gallery". By the end of the night, and a few too many pints in, you arrive at the conclusion that it might not be such a good idea, but a platform up in the tree at the bottom of the garden with a comfy chair and a telescope (for stargazing) is actually a runner.
> 
> Anyway, I'm happy to keep listening to the OP and kick around the suggestions.
> 
> Anyway, it's Friday, I'm off to the pub,
> 
> Oh wait



Back to the beginning before things went off on tangents...and I'm FAR from 'ccooning' - hate that 'in' word of Simon Harris. My original,'simple' Q was similar to the thread title. I just asked for an opinion about Lifeloans because there's not as many on offer here as the UK  and I'd be happier/prefer if the 'big banks' were offering them as I don't trust smaller unknown names. I wondered if the compound interest was equivalent to what it would be on a mortgage/personal loan over a year (if you paid back just the interest every year) and the 'holiday' part was if I borrowed 100k and the renovations cost 90k then there'd be a few bob there to cushion things, including maybe spend 200 on a Ryanair to Paris for a weekend in a cheap hotel...that's my idea of a 'holiday'.... )


----------



## Bronte

phoenix53 said:


> It can’t be a genuine question with a real wish for an answer surely?  All attempts to help are batted to the side and more confusion added with each post.  My head’s melted at this stage and I’m genuinely concerned for the op and his partner and the disastrous decisions they could be about to make..


That's the sad part.  But there's no talking to some people.


----------



## RedOnion

In Ireland, there's only on provider currently.  It is very unlikely that the main banks will offer these, due to a number of reasons, but primarily around capital requirements.

At 60 years of age, the maximum you can release is 15% of the value.  You've put out a number of 100k, which would require your house to be worth at least 666k.  The reason you could only get 15%, is because the's a guarantee that they will never seek repayment above the value of your house when you die.  100k at 5.5% for 40 years, without any repayments, leaves 898k owing.  (after 30 years it's 520k).

If you are repaying the interest, then the compounding doesn't really matter.  But, the interest on a 100k loan is 458 per month (5,500 per year). That's a big chunk of a state pension gone.

It is more expensive than a mortgage because the rate is higher.  It might be cheaper than a personal loan, because the rate is lower, but you have to pay legal fees to set it up.


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Back to the beginning before things went off on tangents...and I'm FAR from 'ccooning' - hate that 'in' word of Simon Harris. My original,'simple' Q was similar to the thread title. I just asked for an opinion about Lifeloans because there's not as many on offer here as the UK  and I'd be happier/prefer if the 'big banks' were offering them as I don't trust smaller unknown names. I wondered if the compound interest was equivalent to what it would be on a mortgage/personal loan over a year (if you paid back just the interest every year) and the 'holiday' part was if I borrowed 100k and the renovations cost 90k then there'd be a few bob there to cushion things, including maybe spend 200 on a Ryanair to Paris for a weekend in a cheap hotel...that's my idea of a 'holiday'.... )



So we have managed to figure out one thing.  You working doesn't bring in proper income. Little over the dole, living in a house, of some good value, that is slowly crumbling.  How about this Bren, we deal with one issue at a time.  Maybe we can get you to an annual trip for a weekend in Paris and a two week holiday in Spain as well. 

Question 1
How much does electricity cost you in a year, and is that also you heating.


----------



## Bronte

RedOnion said:


> If you are repaying the interest, then the compounding doesn't really matter.  But, the interest on a 100k loan is 458 per month (5,500 per year). That's a big chunk of a state pension gone.


There's no way he's going to be able to pay the interest.


----------



## BrenWW

RedOnion said:


> In Ireland, there's only on provider currently.  It is very unlikely that the main banks will offer these, due to a number of reasons, but primarily around capital requirements.
> 
> At 60 years of age, the maximum you can release is 15% of the value.  You've put out a number of 100k, which would require your house to be worth at least 666k.  The reason you could only get 15%, is because the's a guarantee that they will never seek repayment above the value of your house when you die.  100k at 5.5% for 40 years, without any repayments, leaves 898k owing.  (after 30 years it's 520k).
> 
> If you are repaying the interest, then the compounding doesn't really matter.  But, the interest on a 100k loan is 458 per month (5,500 per year). That's a big chunk of a state pension gone.
> 
> It is more expensive than a mortgage because the rate is higher.  It might be cheaper than a personal loan, because the rate is lower, but you have to pay legal fees to set it up.


Great, Thank God, now, there's clearer figures I can comprehend and relate to at last. Later on I'll put them down on a big chart so that will help me plan the way forward.  I was looking at the AnPost SEAI energy upgrade loans that work out at c.700mth for a 70k loan over 10 years.. (?)


----------



## RedOnion

BrenWW said:


> I was looking at the AnPost SEAI energy upgrade loans that work out at c.700mth for a 70k loan over 10 years.. (?)


Yes, the big difference is you pay off the 70k over the 10 years, so you owe nothing at the end.

With that particular loan product, I believe you need quotes from an SEAI approved contractor? I'm not too familiar with it, so might be mixing it up.

And, as with all loans, you would need to be able to afford the repayment on the amount you borrow.


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> So we have managed to figure out one thing.  You working doesn't bring in proper income. Little over the dole, living in a house, of some good value, that is slowly crumbling.  How about this Bren, we deal with one issue at a time.  Maybe we can get you to an annual trip for a weekend in Paris and a two week holiday in Spain as well.
> 
> Question 1
> How much does electricity cost you in a year, and is that also you heating.


4,900 / year  Dec19-Dec20. Plug in electric fires for heat. Another mystery is how our electric bill went UP after getting a gas (bottle, not mains) cooker....?  Did double check on our consumption v's meter reading on 'My electric account' page, found a discrepancy of 3000kW between my reading and their figures....??    Going to get on to ESB about a Pay-as-you-go meter that'll lighten the load. Looking at AnPost SEAI energy loans, money I save might pay for a city break........


----------



## Monbretia

The pay as you go will actually cost you more, yes it's spread out and you can't spend what you didn't feed it but the cost per unit is usually higher with those.

When you say plug electric are you talking about oil filled radiator or something else?  Some electric heaters are worse than others, is electricity the only form of heating in the house?


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> *4,900 / year*  Dec19-Dec20. Plug in electric fires for heat. Another mystery is how our electric bill went UP after getting a gas (bottle, not mains) cooker....?  Did double check on our consumption v's meter reading on 'My electric account' page, found a discrepancy of 3000kW between my reading and their figures....??    Going to get on to ESB about a Pay-as-you-go meter that'll lighten the load. Looking at AnPost SEAI energy loans, money I save might pay for a city break........



Thank you for answering question 1.  Added details are good, well done.   (€96 Euro a week.)

*Question 2*

What exact income is coming into the house? (do not say PUP say € amount X to the Euro) and how many people in house.


----------



## ATC110

BrenWW said:


> putting say 50k in renovations would yield an extra 200k in the sale??



As a general rule, renovations/remodelling do not enhance the value of a house rather make it more saleable in a competitive market.

It's a seller's market right now due to lack of supply and all the state money being handed out.

If I was in your situation, I would improve the kerbside appeal at low/no cost by decluttering, pressure washing, strategically placed plants et al and get the house on the market asap with a view to significantly downsizing. 

I did similar a couple of years ago and only touched up the paint in the reception rooms and gave the front door a coat of varnish and polished the brass door furniture for the first impression and left the (badly in need of redecorating) bedroom walls untouched.

The house achieved an unprecedented price for the area.

Good luck.


----------



## _OkGo_

BrenWW said:


> 4,900 / year Dec19-Dec20



This thread is hilarious in its own way...have you tried turning off the immersion 

But seriously if you are paying that much your first step should be to change provider every year, it will save you a fortune.



BrenWW said:


> I was looking at the AnPost SEAI energy upgrade loans that work out at c.700mth for a 70k loan over 10 years.. (?)





BrenWW said:


> Looking at AnPost SEAI energy loans, money I save might pay for a city break



None of this makes any sense, so you plan to save €200-250 a month in bills by taking a loan that costs nearly €750 a month. You clearly cannot afford that. And you are highly unlikely to get a loan of €70k anyway based on your income...back to that big chart of yours...


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Thank you for answering question 1.  Added details are good, well done.   (€96 Euro a week.)
> 
> *Question 2*
> 
> What exact income is coming into the house? (do not say PUP say € amount X to the Euro) and how many people in house.


1400/month (350/wk) ..... 2 people


----------



## BrenWW

ATC110 said:


> As a general rule, renovations/remodelling do not enhance the value of a house rather make it more saleable in a competitive market.
> 
> It's a seller's market right now due to lack of supply and all the state money being handed out.
> 
> If I was in your situation, I would improve the kerbside appeal at low/no cost by decluttering, pressure washing, strategically placed plants et al and get the house on the market asap with a view to significantly downsizing.
> 
> I did similar a couple of years ago and only touched up the paint in the reception rooms and gave the front door a coat of varnish and polished the brass door furniture for the first impression and left the (badly in need of redecorating) bedroom walls untouched.
> 
> The house achieved an unprecedented price for the area.
> 
> Good luck.


Did that years ago, used buy 'trade' cars, service and valet, drive for 6 mths and sell on....happy days. Bit like 'flipping houses' on US TV shows.
Last house I lived in I had 'personalised' paint wise, but when I decided to sell I painted all the interior magnolia/white, decluttered including wall paintings etc and white sheets over cabinets when viewings were on. On a 'good' day I can do wonders around the place ( if someone said they'd give me 600k for it next week if it was cleaned up-watch me in action!!!) but given other things at the moment I haven't done anything in weeks..


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> 1400/month (350/wk) ..... 2 people


Thank you for answering Question 2.

Question 3

What amount do you spend on food weekly.


----------



## BrenWW

_OkGo_ said:


> This thread is hilarious in its own way...have you tried turning off the immersion
> 
> But seriously if you are paying that much your first step should be to change provider every year, it will save you a fortune.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of this makes any sense, so you plan to save €200-250 a month in bills by taking a loan that costs nearly €750 a month. You clearly cannot afford that. And you are highly unlikely to get a loan of €70k anyway based on your income...back to that big chart of yours...


The Immmersion..hadn't thought of that....  (Actually checked it now, lagging jacket WAS hanging off so tightened it and there's 1000/yr saved tonight... )
Change provider will be looked at. The loan payback v's 'savings'...if income is 1400/mth, then the ESB savings of 250/mth (as per my/Bronte's  ESB bill averaging of 386/mth being cut back ) might not look attractive but the end result was to make it easier for people to be interested in the property as a 'walk in' purchase rather than them having to think about getting builders in before they could move in..with all the uncertainty that brings. So IF  I borrowed the 70k it could hasten a sale and I'd be able to pay it off, or I could live in comfort rather than dying of bad health because 'he didn't take care of his health in that draughty old place' 
Anyway, tomorrow's another day nearer to a solution....


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Thank you for answering Question 2.
> 
> Question 3
> 
> What amount do you spend on food weekly.


Wait for it, this is going to be a doozy.... If I'm shopping it's 50/wk(basics), if she's shopping then it could be 150/wk(her 'basics'). To be fair she's on par with the best in the world, she could turn tripe into a 5 star meal , even her 'nothing special' sauces have caused me to eat the plate as well it's so tasty...
Reason she spends extra is on the ingredients and other things that she magics into 5 star food, BUT, she's a bit of a 'hoarder' because we've about a years worth of eating in the freezers...YES, freezerS. ( They're actually a mini freezer 'overflow' ,and a superchilled extra fridge in case the other freezers break down) We could nearly stop buying now and just eat was in the freezers so that'd be 100/wk saving....


----------



## Thirsty

Think this thread has run its course.


----------



## Bronte

*Question 4.*

Bren do you or you wife owe any money anywhere, bank, car finance, credit card, credit union loan?


----------



## Bronte

Thirsty said:


> Think this thread has run its course.


I'd assumed the same until Buddyboy's post 48..  This one might be a slow burner and we might end up with Frank and Una in Gran Canaria on Joe Duffy.


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> *Question 4.*
> 
> Bren do you or you wife owe any money anywhere, bank, car finance, credit card, credit union loan?


Only car finance,(191 Apr/4 yrs left) and that's on a 6 mth (+?) payment break.Only reason that was bought was because I'd spent the guts of I suppose 8k on repairs on the last few s/h cars (left one into a main dealer to do the rad, came back with loose a/t pipe which leaked fluid, told me to bring it back but a/t expired on the way there, refused to accept blame ,so do you start forking out legal fees to sue etc??). Basically towed the car to the dealer for 4k scrappage on the new one..


----------



## jpd

I think I will come back to this thread when Bronte gets to Q 43 and we may be getting to a proper analysis and proposed solutions


----------



## Bronte

jpd said:


> I think I will come back to this thread when Bronte gets to Q 43 and we may be getting to a proper analysis and proposed solutions


I already know the solution, but someone needs to put on their listening ears.


----------



## Bronte

Question 5.

In your working life Bren do either you or your wife have entitlement to a contributory state pension eventually.  That’s the pension you get if you paid social insurance.  Like being in a job such as working for Dunnes or Lidl.


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Question 5.
> 
> In your working life Bren do either you or your wife have entitlement to a contributory state pension eventually.  That’s the pension you get if you paid social insurance.  Like being in a job such as working for Dunnes or Lidl.


Yes, just me


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Yes, just me


Question 6
How many years? Any breaks in your social insurance history. Obviously if you were ever on the dole, you were still putting up a stamp, presumably it’s the same with the PUP. You mentioned you worked as a sole trader.


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> 4,900 / year  Dec19-Dec20. Plug in electric fires for heat. Another mystery is how our electric bill went UP after getting a gas (bottle, not mains) cooker....?  Did double check on our consumption v's meter reading on 'My electric account' page, found a discrepancy of 3000kW between my reading and their figures....??    Going to get on to ESB about a Pay-as-you-go meter that'll lighten the load. Looking at AnPost SEAI energy loans, money I save might pay for a city break........


*Job 1 for Bren*

Get out your last six bills, tell us if says Electric Ireland. Look at the bill and tell us how much per unit of electricity you are paying.


----------



## TTI

That sounds like a mad amount of money for electricity, keep in mind that electricity is around 3 to 3.5 times more expensive than Oil or Gas for the same amount of heat. Also all electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electricity into heat so it doesn't matter what type of electric heater you use.


----------



## Cricketer

BrenWW said:


> if she's shopping then it could be 150/wk(her 'basics')


We're getting to the root of it now. I suspect it's the other half who's not turning off the immersion.  Fair play to Bronte by the way. S/he's like a financial meditation guru - "when the mind wanders, bring it gently back to the breath."


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Question 6
> How many years? Any breaks in your social insurance history. Obviously if you were ever on the dole, you were still putting up a stamp, presumably it’s the same with the PUP. You mentioned you worked as a sole trader.


About 30 years on PRSI then 15 as a sole trader with some summer jobs (PRSI) during that time.


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> *Job 1 for Bren*
> 
> Get out your last six bills, tell us if says Electric Ireland. Look at the bill and tell us how much per unit of electricity you are paying.


 It's 0.17c / unit, Electric Ireland,


----------



## BrenWW

Cricketer said:


> We're getting to the root of it now. I suspect it's the other half who's not turning off the immersion.  Fair play to Bronte by the way. S/he's like a financial meditation guru - "when the mind wanders, bring it gently back to the breath."


  Bronte's got the Patience of a saint


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> It's 0.17c / unit, Electric Ireland,


*Job 2*
How often did you read the meters on your last six bills? Tomorrow you should phone electric Ireland to see if you can get a better rate. Shop around. Also request your annual spend is spread evenly over 12 monthly bills by direct debit. Here is how it’s done.


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Bronte's got the Patience of a saint


I shall give up on you if you haven’t job 2 done by it’s deadline.


----------



## BrenWW

TTI said:


> That sounds like a mad amount of money for electricity, keep in mind that electricity is around 3 to 3.5 times more expensive than Oil or Gas for the same amount of heat. Also all electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electricity into heat so it doesn't matter what type of electric heater you use.


There was an Aga originally with central heating, but I it was removed and nothing put in it's place. The rads are rusted inside by now I'd guess.


----------



## Des Pondent

BrenWW said:


> It's 0.17c / unit, Electric Ireland,


You should change provider immediately, as an example Energia are offering new customers 13 cent per Kwh for the first year, that’s around 25% less than you are currently paying.

When your year is up you switch again. 

Changing provider for gas or electric is far easier than other services, sign up on line, your new provider does all the work, cancelling existing providers etc, it could not be easier.

Check out Bonkers or similar.


----------



## Merowig

I second above

Check out https://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/ and switch providers
If you indeed have several freezers in use, get all the food used up from some and plug them out.

What about doing some spring cleaning, throw away and selling some of the stuff you do not need (like surplus freezers) on ebay/gumtree/adverts and then considering to rent out a room to increase your cashflow ?
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

The money earned via renting out a room and reducing spending can be used for renovations / increase energy efficiency and for holidays.
I would definitely not heat with electricity - that is super expensive. Installing a Gas or Oil boiler would have paid for itself quickly in comparison to what you spent now


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> I shall give up on you if you haven’t job 2 done by it’s deadline.


Done      Checked with EI first about the equalizer and 'loyality' stuff,  call center woman with 'Russian' accent/service ethic said they'd give me 100 if I went DD, didn't register when I told her by registering with Energia I'd save 1100/yr....


----------



## BrenWW

[QUOTE="Merowig, 
Tried a few times on those sites,  did sell a sliding porch door but the rest didn't move... Have a load of paintings / farmers market food equipment  and other craft stuff,  put it up every now and again and then forget to renew the ads. 
Rent a room... Bad experience once, never again..  
Have plenty of logs so maybe a log stove would do the job of heating the main room...


----------



## BrenWW

CU guide to good value renovation .creditunion.ie/blog/the-complete-guide-to-home-renovation-costs/

Tradesmen.ie.    w.tradesmen.ie/trades?gclid=Cj0KCQiA34OBBhCcARIsAG32uvMJQg3iKraqKaB9SKPQaU3BDGmEbfgJ79-fn81fHMo7NfcVoUl8olsaAtIaEALw_wcB


----------



## Monbretia

TTI said:


> Also all electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electricity into heat so it doesn't matter what type of electric heater you use.



While true it is better to be trying to heat a room with an oil filled radiator than a fan heater, you won't need to keep it on as much or as high to get same result.

Freezers/fridges not as heavy as you might think unless they are very old or not working properly, I run two freezers and two fridges and they are not a major extra cost even though anything constantly on is a cost but the electric heating would far outstrip the cost of a freezer.   Although dedicating yourself to using up what is in them will probably save a good bit in grocery shopping for a few weeks anyway.  I stocked up recently and don't anticipate shopping for the best part of 3/4 weeks and even then only for essentials.


----------



## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Done      Checked with EI first about the equalizer and 'loyality' stuff,  call center woman with 'Russian' accent/service ethic said they'd give me 100 if I went DD, didn't register when I told her by registering with Energia I'd save 1100/yr....



Before I get too excited .... and move onto Job 3, what is it exactly you have done?


----------



## BrenWW

Bronte said:


> Before I get too excited .... and move onto Job 3, what is it exactly you have done?





Bronte said:


> Before I get too excited .... and move onto Job 3, what is it exactly you have done?


Registered with Energia who were the best deal on Bonkers.ie, tho they say there's a E230 'standing charge' that I don't see on EI, so that might reduce my saving to c.E900/yr E2.46/day compared to E3.01/day ....


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## Bronte

BrenWW said:


> Registered with Energia who were the best deal on Bonkers.ie, tho they say there's a E230 'standing charge' that I don't see on EI, so that might reduce my saving to c.E900/yr E2.46/day compared to E3.01/day ....


Ok that sounds like progress.  Have you actually paid the €950 bill yet as I have an idea for that.  I'm giving you both a question and a job this morning, if you get them done by this afternoon we will move on. 

Meanwhile for the next month aim to empty the freezers of food to give you and your lovely wife some breathing space on costs. 

*Question 5 - heating*

How many electric heaters do you have in the house, can you tell us the brand names and types as in oil fired or blow heaters.  Are they on all the time.  And you have a gas cylindar as well.  I suppose it's something like this

[broken link removed]

*Job 3*

I doubt this one will get you talking to a lovely Russian lady but you might have a nice chat all the same, firstly get out your PRSI number and then telephone :

Social Welfare Buncrana Donegal: 1890690 690
Ask them for:

1. Your PRSI record to be sent in the post to you
2. Have a chat about how many more years of PRSI you need to get the full state pension
3. Discuss any gaps in your prsi history and ask them to send you information on how you might be able to buy back prsi (this might be a different department so ask for the name of it and telephone no
3. Don't forget to mention to them your wife is a dependant, if she has any PRSI paid then ask the above for her too. 

If the 1890 is not free, than ask them to call you back, tell them you are broke.  They are generally lovely people in that office.


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## Coldwarrior

BrenWW said:


> Registered with Energia who were the best deal on Bonkers.ie, tho they say there's a E230 'standing charge' that I don't see on EI, so that might reduce my saving to c.E900/yr E2.46/day compared to E3.01/day ....


Every electricity supplier has a standing charge, including EI, so don't worry about that


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## shweeney

there are differences in the standing charges, but I did the comparison exercise very recently and Energia are the best deal overall, especially for heavy users.

I notice you're still talking about renovation loans - if your intention is to sell and downsize, just do that as soon as is practicable. Any money you spend on renovations you almost certainly won't get back. Even if you're planning to stay in the house, your financial issues are *now*, and any energy upgrades you make will take decades to save you money. 

(I estimated the payback on insulation for our draughty 70s gaff at about 23 years. The hell with that, I'll just keep turning the heating on until Eamonn Ryan drives a dump-truck full of grant money up to my door...)


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## ATC110

I need a lie down after this thread-it’s like meth for the eyes


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## Bronte

ATC110 said:


> I need a lie down after this thread-it’s like meth for the eyes



I think we are doing very well. BrenWW has already made a saving of nearly 900 annually.  And if he eats out of his freezer for a couple of months he'll have even more savings, plus he won't have to throw away perfectly good food.  Stuff in the deep freeze loses it's nutrition and taste over time.  It's only a week since he first posted, we should have it all sorted by the summer.


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## RedOnion

Bronte said:


> we should have it all sorted by the summer.


Like the HSE's vaccination plans, that timeframe sounds a bit ambitious!!


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## ATC110

Bronte said:


> I think we are doing very well. BrenWW has already made a saving of nearly 900 annually.  And if he eats out of his freezer for a couple of months he'll have even more savings, plus he won't have to throw away perfectly good food.  Stuff in the deep freeze loses it's nutrition and taste over time.  It's only a week since he first posted, we should have it all sorted by the summer.



The replies aren't the problem..


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## Merowig

BrenWW said:


> Tried a few times on those sites,  did sell a sliding porch door but the rest didn't move... Have a load of paintings / farmers market food equipment  and other craft stuff,  put it up every now and again and then forget to renew the ads.
> Rent a room... Bad experience once, never again..
> Have plenty of logs so maybe a log stove would do the job of heating the main room...


I understand in regards to tenants - once bitten twice shy - and it can be uncomfortable - you need to screen who you get in - asking for work references and landlord references - one option could be just to rent out short term (up to 6 months) and only prolong it if it is a fit.





						Tenants’ rights and responsibilities
					

The rights and responsibilities of people who rent from private landlords or approved housing bodies.




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				



It is relatively easy to remove a tenant in the first six months.
I would go with someone working, non smoker , no pets, or perhaps an international student who is here for half a year/a year only.

A log stove is nice but I would see that only as a supplement to a gas or oil boiler.

Just continue to try to get rid of surplus things via adverts and other sites. You might have a holiday there in the end


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## Merowig

Money tools - MABS
		

perhaps it is worth to have look at that and / or even have a chat with them
I track myself my expenses in a simple excel so that I have a sense of all my outgoings

They have even a meal planner [broken link removed]


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## Gordon Gekko

Merowig said:


> Money tools - MABS
> 
> 
> perhaps it is worth to have look at that and / or even have a chat with them
> I track myself my expenses in a simple excel so that I have a sense of all my outgoings
> 
> They have even a meal planner [broken link removed]



I think having a spreadsheet that sets-out your income and outgoings is a great idea. I do it myself and find it very helpful. I think it’s best to go granular and then you know where savings can be made.

It’s important to have fun and smell the roses though. Life isn’t about spreadsheets.


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## Monbretia

See my eyes glaze over when I hear excel/spreadsheet and I use the laptop every single day but I just don't like scrolling up/down/sideways/backwards trying to look at spreadsheets.   Lot to be said for two sheets of paper, make list on one of expenses and income on the other, it can all be done with a pen and calculator, less intimidating maybe to some!

The MABS site as mentioned is very good, if you ring MABS they will send out a budgeting pack with spending diaries etc to fill, at least I presume they still do, could probably be printed off their site too.    For a lot of people just doing it the old pen and paper way is easier.


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## NotMyRealName

Bren.   You're all over the place. You need a face-to-face with a financial/lifestyle Trinny and Susannah. Get professional help. The opinions and advice here is sound ( from my experience) but you need the skill and unemotional discipline to put it all together. I'm a builder, take it from me...(shutdown aside) we're all busy. Good tradespeople don't want nixers any more. 
Get someone to chart your course.....and follow it.
Otherwise you're just trading your house for magic beans. Even if the beanstalk grows, you've still gotta climb it, steal the gold and slay the giant..
The hardest thing to do will be to make a start. First, admit that you can't do everything in life yourself.....That evidence is writ large for you. 
Everybody here means well and most of the advice is sound, but you might benefit more from one professional persons sound plan. Then you'll have to dispassionately implement it. Hopefully, the people on this forum have pointed you in that direction. 
I hope it all works out for you.


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## abc_xyz

Merowig said:


> It is relatively easy to remove a tenant in the first six months.
> I would go with someone working, non smoker , no pets, or perhaps an international student who is here for half a year/a year only.



A rented room in the owners house has a lot less rights/protections - they are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Board and notice is whatever is a agreed between the parties. Basically the renter is a paying guest.
Can't post link but see Citizen's information website - "Renting a room"


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## Merowig

abc_xyz said:


> A rented room in the owners house has a lot less rights/protections - they are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Board and notice is whatever is a agreed between the parties. Basically the renter is a paying guest.
> Can't post link but see Citizen's information website - "Renting a room"



Thank you - forgot about that - so even better for BrenWW then to get rid of anyone who doesn't want to accept house rules.
One can agree on something like two or four weeks notice that should be enough to get anyone out who is unpleasant.

With 200 sqm and a lack of income I would definitely at least occasionally rent 1-2 rooms out - up to 14,000 Euro tax free rental income per year.
That could allow over time for major renovations and holidays.


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## dino

I have a friend who works in Dublin 4 days per week as a contractor. He rents a room off a retired couple for €450 per month. He's delighted with the setup. They have a TV room that he uses in the evenings and he is only there 4 nights per week. Works great for both. 
The only issue is that it sounds like you'll need to sort out your heating situation first. 

This whole thread highlights the huge issue in this country with older people getting stuck with big old inefficient houses. I've seen a number of large 60's and 70's houses come on the market recently that had very poor BER ratings and needed huge renovations. But I've also seen a lot of houses near me selling where people were moving to smaller houses in town and getting rid of bigger older houses outside town. 
I think it would make a lot of sense to sell the house and move to a more manageable house in better condition. If you can't manage the current house in your 60's you'll really struggle in your 70's and 80's.


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## PGF2016

dino said:


> I think it would make a lot of sense to sell the house and move to a more manageable house in better condition. If you can't manage the current house in your 60's you'll really struggle in your 70's and 80's.


OP has indicated that a sentimental attachment is a reason for not selling. Personally I think you only live once and should not live in relative poverty while sitting on an asset that could be sold to provide a better life.


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## shweeney

the govt has suggested offering incentives for downsizing, and been slaughtered for it on the likes of Liveline for driving old people, many of whom have worked all there lives, grinding their fingers to the bones, fought and died for their country, out of their beloved homes (aka depriving their kids of their rightful inheritance).


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## BrenWW

I'm still here, just tied up with another more pressing situation.... Anyway, freezers / pantry (yes  ) have enough food for... about 1 year, if I  can persuade her to actually COOK the damn stuff (told her 'can't do anything until the stuff is used up,  you want to throw €3k worth of food?? ' ) . Have been getting estimates on some of the jobs that need doing (along with some good advice)  so that's ongoing. Building is like the car repairs I used to do, (sometimes a 'small' ding can bend a chassis out of shape, while a bigger bang is easily fixed with a s/h bumper,)  likewise I asked a sparks about a rewire and he said "too much work involved, I'll check your wires and maybe a few extra sockets would do the job? " It's not all about milking the job and everyone has different opinions about what's needed (look at Bannon etc.)
Checking out the 'afterlife' too...  What's the plan for the years ahead 'after' we've finished this....


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## Merowig

shweeney said:


> the govt has suggested offering incentives for downsizing, and been slaughtered for it on the likes of Liveline for driving old people, many of whom have worked all there lives, grinding their fingers to the bones, fought and died for their country, out of their beloved homes (aka depriving their kids of their rightful inheritance).


In my opinion rightly slaughtered - the elderly would compete with FTB for smaller houses unless one wants to push them into care homes/apartments.  Also potentially moving away from their neighborhood, parish, support networks etc.
I would see any such incentive as a waste of taxpayers money and not solving the underlying problems of housing in Ireland.

Back to topic . Two weeks of food storage is recommended  - I think ourselves we have here food for two - four weeks at least.
I know an American who have much more but he rotates the food and uses food up during camping trips.






						Preparedness 101: How To Build A Two Week Emergency Pantry  |  Northwest Edible Life
					






					nwedible.com
				





> Sane preparedness is about reasonable steps to mitigate disasters – and after the first several weeks of a disaster, in most situations having an extra month of savings to draw from will be more useful than having an extra month’s worth of savings converted into pinto beans.
> 
> So, for sure, build up to that 2 week store of food in your pantry, and expand your food store if your time, inclination and finances allow, but before you attempt anything like 6 months or more of food storage, please ensure you are already in a strong financial position and have a savings buffer to draw from.



If you are into prepping  then you should consume the oldest items first - First In, First Out Principle. I hope I am not too insensitive and it is difficult to "judge" over the internet  but that here sounds more like hoarding/cluttering than preparedness and for that my suggestion would be to look for help / support - e.g. your GP might perhaps be able to do a referral.


Can you please come back to Brontes question and job


> *Question 5 - heating*
> 
> How many electric heaters do you have in the house, can you tell us the brand names and types as in oil fired or blow heaters. Are they on all the time. And you have a gas cylindar as well. I suppose it's something like this
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> *Job 3*
> 
> I doubt this one will get you talking to a lovely Russian lady but you might have a nice chat all the same, firstly get out your PRSI number and then telephone :
> 
> Social Welfare Buncrana Donegal: 1890690 690
> Ask them for:
> 
> 1. Your PRSI record to be sent in the post to you
> 2. Have a chat about how many more years of PRSI you need to get the full state pension
> 3. Discuss any gaps in your prsi history and ask them to send you information on how you might be able to buy back prsi (this might be a different department so ask for the name of it and telephone no
> 3. Don't forget to mention to them your wife is a dependant, if she has any PRSI paid then ask the above for her too.




What kind of jobs did you got estimates for if I may ask?


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## Thirsty

BrenWW said:


> ..persuade her to actually COOK..


So why don't *you* cook?


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## Bronte

Sparks says the job is too big. How much is too big. Your house sounds like an electrical nightmare. I suppose the electric heaters are on extension leads and one extension led into another.

Putting in a few wires sounds just about the worst thing that can be done. Total chancer of a sharks I suspect, aided and abetted by Bren who hasn’t the money to do a right job.

House is probably a mega fire hazzard. Sad.


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## BrenWW

Thirsty said:


> So why don't *you* cook?





Bronte said:


> Sparks says the job is too big. How much is too big. Your house sounds like an electrical nightmare. I suppose the electric heaters are on extension leads and one extension led into another.
> 
> Putting in a few wires sounds just about the worst thing that can be done. Total chancer of a sharks I suspect, aided and abetted by Bren who hasn’t the money to do a right job.
> 
> House is probably a mega fire hazzard. Sad.


My cooking would solve the problem,  we'd both be dead... I've said no more buying for 6mths,except fresh veg,  because we do have more than enough. Heaters.  Glen 2000, Lidl fan heater. Glen just used as needed, Fan heater on thru the day. No oil etc.
Quotes for rewiring/windows-attic/building.... But just ballpark figures...("I'd have to see it first to give an accurate price")
Sparks said most proper rewiring is done during construction (chipping away at plaster etc I'd guess)


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## Thirsty

@BrenWW - you're an adult, you learned how to drive a car and use a computer or smart phone; but learning to cook safely is beyond you?

Reading your responses; all of which seem to me to be so negative and lacking in planning, I'm inclined to agree with an earlier poster and wonder if you are becoming depressed?  Would you consider getting some professional advice in that area? In particular you shouldn't make major financial decisions until your thoughts are clearer; which, again based on your responses, they are not at present.

Edit to add: have you discussed any of this with your wife? If you are "telling" her what to cook or buy, I suspect not; but perhaps I'm wrong.


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## shweeney

Merowig said:


> In my opinion rightly slaughtered - the elderly would compete with FTB for smaller houses unless one wants to push them into care homes/apartments.  Also potentially moving away from their neighborhood, parish, support networks etc.
> I would see any such incentive as a waste of taxpayers money and not solving the underlying problems of housing in Ireland.


these things are interconnected. A lot of older people are living in big houses with lots of empty bedrooms - this is just driving up prices further down the market and forcing younger people with families to live further from town centres, spawning car dependency etc

Meanwhile there's no market for building the types of properties that downsizers might choose, serviced apartments and sheltered accommodation in particular. They shouldn't have to leave their neighbourhoods, there should be accommodation available suitable for older people close to amenities. This stuff doesn't get built because downsizing is financially challenging and there's no incentive to do it. There needs to be options in between "4 bedroom detached house" and "nursing home" (this is without even going into all the properties left vacant due to Fair Deal).


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## Steiny

So, just out of interest, does the OP himself have a plan of action? E.g.,

Find out current financial position... Value house, do spend diary, find a proper adviser...

One thing that struck me was that if OP was to spend anything on house, it would be best to sort out his radiators and boiler. Trying to heat a big house with electricity is very expensive and is what is making the elec bills so high. Money would be recooped fairly quickly if he intends to stay there and would make big difference to comfort and make sure your have 2 heating zones in house so you can heat living area independently. You will be in the house more in later years...


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## Purple

Thirsty said:


> @BrenWW - you're an adult, you learned how to drive a car and use a computer or smart phone; but learning to cook safely is beyond you?


Yep, if you can read and tell the time you can cook. With YouTube you don't even need to know how to read...


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