# Piercing babies ears



## DaveD (6 Dec 2007)

Could anyone please explain to me why someone would pierce a baby's ears? I saw this happen today in the window of a Claire's Accessories shop and found it difficult to comprehend why a a parent would think it acceptable to firstly put the baby through the unnecessary pain and secondly that they are entitled to make the decision to permanently "modify" the baby's body, albeit in a minor way.

As as aside from the stupidity of some parents, is it legal for them to do this, or for a shop to do it to a baby?


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## shootingstar (6 Dec 2007)

I hear you... 

My friend did it to her 2 yr old recently. Little one screamed beyond belief!!! I said dont do it cause the child would be screaming. Her answer was "she`ll thank me in a few years"..!! And to make matters worse when the 2nd ear had to be done the child went balistic.. I was going mad over it but what could i do?  

I`m well against it!!!


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## Purple (6 Dec 2007)

DaveD said:


> Could anyone please explain to me why someone would pierce a baby's ears?


 So that people will know that they are a knacker.


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## Caveat (6 Dec 2007)

DaveD said:


> Could anyone please explain to me why someone would pierce a baby's ears? I saw this happen today in the window of a Claire's Accessories shop and found it difficult to comprehend why a a parent would think it acceptable to firstly put the baby through the unnecessary pain and secondly that they are entitled to make the decision to permanently "modify" the baby's body, albeit in a minor way.
> 
> As as aside from the stupidity of some parents, is it legal for them to do this, or for a shop to do it to a baby?


 
Cheap, tacky, selfish, ugly and cruel.


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## Jock04 (6 Dec 2007)

Purple said:


> So that people will know that they are a knacker.


 

That one literally had me lauhing out loud!


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## ninsaga (6 Dec 2007)

Purple said:


> So that people will know that they are a knacker.



to true! .... or a scanger for that matter!


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## tml (6 Dec 2007)

funny just had a conversation about this yesterday

My mother got mine pierced when I was 10 weeks old   (27 years ago I might add!) She said she was so upset watching me get them done she had to hand me to my aunt to hold.

She also admits that while she thought it was great at the time if she had babies now she would never in a million years get their ears pierced because it looks so common (not because of the cruelty to children I noted  )

Have to admit I am glad mine were pierced as a child because I would be far too squeamish now to get them done! 

Oh and if I ever have kids they will not be getting their ears pierced until they are old enough to make their own minds up about it


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## shootingstar (6 Dec 2007)

ok so are ye people saying my friends are knackers and scangers??? They always say if you want to know me look at my friends.. (well it goes something like that anyway... never mind)

No smart comments Elefantfresh!!!!!!!


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## Purple (6 Dec 2007)

shootingstar said:


> ok so are ye people saying my friends are knackers and scangers??? They always say if you want to know me look at my friends.. (well it goes something like that anyway... never mind)
> 
> No smart comments Elefantfresh!!!!!!!


I didn't say they were scangers


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## GarBow (6 Dec 2007)

Saw a young lad of no more than a year with an ear piercing the other day. I'd never really thought about it till that moment but surely causing unnecessary pain to a child would be catagorised as child abuse. And blatently in public to boot.

And i don't think that is an overreaction.


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## annR (6 Dec 2007)

I think it's cruel.


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## z103 (6 Dec 2007)

Would tattoos be acceptable?


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## Caveat (6 Dec 2007)

leghorn said:


> Would tattoos be acceptable?


 
 distinct whiff of 'baiting' about this remark...


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## ninsaga (6 Dec 2007)

leghorn said:


> Would tattoos be acceptable?



Yeah of course they would......


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## RMCF (6 Dec 2007)

It is not right and should be banned.

Probably the new generation of women who read trash like OK, Hello et al and think that Jordan is the perfect role model for women.

It should be like tattoos - you aren't allowed them until 16 (I think) and only then when YOU decide yourself, not anybody else.


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## Pique318 (6 Dec 2007)

That's mental !!!!

The person in the shop is equally culpable and should have know better !

I'm disgusted !



To the gallows with them both !!!


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## Purple (6 Dec 2007)

Pique318 said:


> To the gallows with them both !!!


After being flogged...


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## ninsaga (6 Dec 2007)

RMCF said:


> .... and think that Jordan is the perfect role model for women..



...woah now hang on a second..... whats wrong with Jordan..... leave her alone... go pick on Nell McCafferty or someone else instead


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## stir crazy (7 Dec 2007)

DaveD said:


> ...difficult to comprehend why a a parent would think it acceptable to firstly put the baby through the unnecessary pain and secondly that they are entitled to make the decision to permanently "modify" the baby's body, albeit in a minor way.





RMCF said:


> It should be like tattoos - you aren't allowed them until 16 (I think) and only then when YOU decide yourself, not anybody else.



Question 1 , Since the vast majority of women have it done eventually, does having it done while young make it easier than having it done while older ?

Question 2,

What about circumcision ? Circumcision strikes me as  a hugely barbaric, unnecessary and backward practice which has resulted in complications and permanent accidents yet I have never heard anyone speak out against this.


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## ClubMan (7 Dec 2007)

stir crazy said:


> What about circumcision ? Circumcision strikes me as  a hugely barbaric, unnecessary and backward practice which has resulted in complications and permanent accidents yet I have never heard anyone speak out against this.


Are you honestly saying that you have *never *heard anybody speaking out against this female or male circumcision? In particular perpetrated against those who cannot make an informed choice (babies or other minors)?


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## stir crazy (7 Dec 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Are you honestly saying that you have *never *heard anybody speaking out against this female or male circumcision? In particular perpetrated against those who cannot make an informed choice (babies or other minors)?



Yes I am being completely honest and always have been. I was actually referring to male circumcision as I think female circumcision is already outlawed here. Hence no reason to questions peoples perceptions about it. 

The only times I have really heard about male circumcision are in American TV shows where the Jewish character for example brings it up for plot related reasons. Yet I have seen noone speak out against it and it appears to be legal everywhere despite a case I read about a few years ago where a baby have lost his genitals by accident. (apparently a hot knife of too high a temperature was used and it vaporised the penis). Has anyone with a high profile spoken out against male circumcision Clubman ? I am not aware of it if someone has.


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## ClubMan (7 Dec 2007)

stir crazy said:


> Yes I am being completely honest and always have been.


Fair enough. I'm just surprised that you have not heard many people over the years discussing this issue.


> I was actually referring to male circumcision as I think female circumcision is already outlawed here. Hence no reason to questions peoples perceptions about it.


I would be wrong but have there not been cases of medical professionals colluding to facilitate female circumcision in _Ireland_?


> The only times I have really heard about male circumcision are in American TV shows where the Jewish character for example brings it up for plot related reasons. Yet I have seen noone speak out against it


I have heard people speaking out against it here in _Ireland_. Of course and adult choosing to have it done is one thing and their own prerogative but it being forced on a minor with no say in the matter is another thing and I would agree with your earlier analysis on that point.


> and it appears to be legal everywhere despite a case I read about a few years ago where a baby have lost his genitals by accident.


Wasn't there also at least one relatively recent case of a baby losing his life through a botched circumcision here in _Ireland_? 


> Has anyone with a high profile spoken out against male circumcision Clubman ? I am not aware of it if someone has.


?


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## amtc (7 Dec 2007)

back to topic
bizarrely in 1984 i got my ears done for confirmation doves...
but the accepted practice was no way before! now wear discreet studs. 

don't think can be compared with tattoos (aka tramp stamps). ugh!


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## moneygrower (7 Dec 2007)

apparently in Spain they routinely do it to babies in the hospital, how anyone can do that to a baby is wierd.


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## z106 (7 Dec 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Are you honestly saying that you have *never *heard anybody speaking out against this female or male circumcision? In particular perpetrated against those who cannot make an informed choice (babies or other minors)?


 
Ya - I have never ever heard someone mention it - as in pretty much ever - other than referenced on some american tv show.

Has anyone else heard their friends/relatives disciuss it as a genuine conversational topic?

I doubt it very much - unless me,my friends and many colleagues i've worked with over the years all live under a rock !


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## Purple (7 Dec 2007)

amtc said:


> back to topic
> bizarrely in 1984 i got my ears done for confirmation doves...
> but the accepted practice was no way before! now wear discreet studs.
> 
> don't think can be compared with tattoos (aka tramp stamps). ugh!



The issue it babies with pierced ears. It looks fine on adults.


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## MrMan (7 Dec 2007)

I don't like the look of it and I am against it, but why the snobbery, is it only 'knackers' that do it or should the middle class and up provide parenting advice to the 'scangers' so that they can meet todays standards.


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## Purple (7 Dec 2007)

MrMan said:


> should the middle class and up provide parenting advice to the 'scangers' so that they can meet todays standards.


 Yes


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## Vanilla (7 Dec 2007)

I've never had mine done and don't intend to now. My parents were fairly strict and wouldn't have let us do this as young girls. The mantra in our house was that we would be old enough to decide for ourselves when we went to college ( not when we were over 18, or 16 or whatever- ' when you are in college' was the repeated answer to most requests in our house which was pretty clever of them really- making being in college the ultimate goal). My sister got her ears pierced then. I never bothered. I have two daughters and I would love to follow my parents footsteps and tell them they will be old enough to make decisions when they are in college but kids seem to be more mature than we were nowadays so I guess I'll see how mature mine are at 16 ( definitely not below that). I could never do this to a baby- the usual vaccinations are bad enough- imagine doing something to a baby to cause it pain when it's not necessary! I saw a little boy in a supermarket the other day the same age as my youngest daughter and he was a lovely little fellow, well dressed and well mannered and had a substantial gold hoop in one ear. Personally I thought it looked horrible but the look is subjective. The pain that must have been inflicted can be fairly objectively assessed though I would have thought.


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## RainyDay (7 Dec 2007)

In Spain, it is standard practice for little girls to get their ears pierced at a very young age.


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## Caveat (7 Dec 2007)

We can all make points about perceived class/taste etc but I think the main issue is that something unnecessary and painful is being inflicted on someone unable to yet make the choice for themselves. I would take this attitude regardless of what is the cultural or national norm.


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## redstar (7 Dec 2007)

circumcision, ear-piercing babies - its all mutilation of a helpless child and should be a crime.
If someone stuck a sharp implement into a babies ear lobe, or anywhere else,  the perpertrator would be arrested for assault. Having parental permission to stab the ear-lobe should be no excuse.


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## stir crazy (7 Dec 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I would be wrong but have there not been cases of medical professionals colluding to facilitate female circumcision in _Ireland_?



I wasnt aware of this . have those medical professionals been struck off ? 



ClubMan said:


> I have heard people speaking out against it here in _Ireland_. Of course and adult choosing to have it done is one thing and their own prerogative but it being forced on a minor with no say in the matter is another thing and I would agree with your earlier analysis on that point.


 
I have never seen any high profile politician or celebrity anywhere speak out against circumcision. I suspect if speaking out about ear piercing he or she would be seen as  a crank with nothing better to do even though the argument against any procedure done to a child who cannot choose for itself is totally valid .


Has anyone ever died or been seriously damaged from the procedure ? (apart from the airhole in ones ear  )

Would anyone who got it done as a child actually regret getting it done?

Since 99% of females that I have met have it done, is it just avoiding fate not to get it done at a young age ? (yes I paid attention to the argument about inability to choose but am just asking)

Is it easier to get your ears pierced while young ? And for any adults who got it done , how painful was it ? Would you reverse it if you could ?


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## z104 (9 Dec 2007)

I think it's cruel and should not be done to defenceless children. The trauma of it.

I also would be against circumcission as it is traumatic, cruel and painful. The reasons for the need for circumcission in the past was down to poor hygene in third/second world countries but since the advent of running water/showers e.t.c. there is no need for it.


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## Morgause (10 Dec 2007)

stir crazy said:


> Would anyone who got it done as a child actually regret getting it done? Since 99% of females that I have met have it done, is it just avoiding fate not to get it done at a young age ?    *snip*   Would you reverse it if you could ?


  Had it done as a child (I suppose age 5 or 6).  I don't like earrings however, so now I have half-closed-up holes in my ears but still visible red marks.  I wish I hadn't had it done.


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## truthseeker (10 Dec 2007)

it was done to me well before communion age, dont remember the piercing as such but i do remember not being able to sleep comfortably because of the backs of the gold studs digging into my head at night.

have NEVER worn earrings since. the holes in my ears are almost invisible but would rather not have them.

i dont think body modification should be allowed on anyone before the age of consent.


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## ragazza (11 Dec 2007)

In Spain, I have never seen a baby girl without pierced ears. Here it has none of the negative (skanger) connotations which it has in Ireland. Babies get their ears pierced in hospital just after they are born.

I've asked a few spanish people whether they think it's cruel to cause your 2 days old baby pain, but they look at me like I have 10 heads.

I was showing some spanish people photos of my baby niece (she's feminine looking and was all dressed in pink), but everyone asked was it a boy or a girl. When I said a girl, everyones first comment was 'where are her earrings?'!


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## redstar (11 Dec 2007)

Different country, different standards. Do they still think Bull fighting is also not cruel ?


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## truthseeker (11 Dec 2007)

Just because something is culturally acceptable does not mean that it is right. But it is very difficult to change cultural traditions on grounds like cruelty because they are deeply indoctrinated and people of a particular culture will be largely desensitised to whatever the practice in question is.

Piercing is a permanent way of marking the body. There are many ways of permanently marking the body in a variety of different cultures across the world. Body scarification, tattooing, lip plates, stretched earlobes, male and female circumcision, etc... - Is it MORALLY right to perpetrate any of these things on a child - despite the fact that all are culturally acceptable somewhere in the world?


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## ragazza (11 Dec 2007)

truthseeker said:


> Just because something is culturally acceptable does not mean that it is right. quote]
> 
> 
> Just to clarify - I dont agree with piercing babys ears, and never would. (My last post sounds like I'm defending Spain's custom of doing it).
> ...


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## truthseeker (11 Dec 2007)

ragazza;538451And its hard to sleep with earrings in said:
			
		

> I think that was actually the reason I was forever put off earrings - the discomfort of them digging into your head when trying to sleep.
> 
> I realise you werent defending Spains customs - I was just thinking aloud in my last post.


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