# Key Post: Building a House



## sueellen

I know this might not be the right place to enquire about building a house, but maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

I hope to build a house in the next year or so, in County Galway, and I wonder if anyone could give me a ball park figure as to how much it would cost to build a house of circa 2,200sq ft?  

I plan on going the direct labour route and can anyone tell me if there is much of a saving by doing this?

I'm currently a PAYE worker but would it be worth my while becoming self employed and getting all my material at cost price (exclusive of VAT)?  What are the pitfalls (if any) of being self employed and working in a full time job? 

Is there anyway I can save money and minimise costs?

Basicially, I'm trying to reduce what I pay for a house, I don't want to pay inflated prices and fund a builder's BMW if I can buy one for myself with the savings I make!

If nobody can help me with the costs could they please point me in the right direction of where I can find out building cost / direct labour savings information?

Thanks!


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## Liam D Ferguson

*Re: Building a House*

Hi, 

The Scoiety of Chartered Surveyors have published [broken link removed] to rebuilding costs.  It's mostly used for insurance purposes, but will give you a very rough ballpark figure.  

There's an architect in Kells, Co. Meath called Jack Fitzsimons who regularly publishes a book called (I think) Bungalow Bliss about self-build homes, with plenty of tips, plans, layouts etc.  A big bookshop like Easons will probably have it (and more like it in the same section).  

Regards, 

Liam D Ferguson
www.ferga.com


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## Vernon

*Cost of building*

I am building at the moment and I am paying £160 per sq ft.
The specification is quite high, but this does not include a kitchen. The direct labour route should save you a fortune -I just didn't have the time or the inclination. The fact that it is Galway and not Dublin, should mean that you get a good bit cheaper than I did.
I have a feeling that if I was to get a quote now, I wouldn't be paying as much as £160. However, these are the risks we take.
You should also be aware that if you are getting an architect to oversee the job for you and do the plans etc. he will charge 8% of the build cost....that's a BMW for him/ her as well!
I also had to pay £3,750 to the council for their certification of the drainage work - this was the biggest swizz of them all!


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## tedd

*Re: Cost of building*

Even though the architect's fees were a significant part of the expense of a recent major home renovation, I would still use them again as the finished product is exactly what I wanted. He kept a close eye on the various aspects of the job and prevented a few dodgy practices as well as ensuring that I got exactly what was in the specification (ie what I was paying for!).


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## aristotle

*Re: Cost of building*

Hi I am currently building in Co Galway an by direct Labour.I bought the site last year for £29000.
I expected the house to take 1 year to build and 10 month in to it things are going well as I have been our of the country for 2 months of this time.
You will always get someone who will not turn up when they are supposed to but a contractor could be the same.Anyhow if you are not in a big hurry with the house direct labour is the way to go.
My house is 2400sq feet and I also have a detached garage of about 350sq feet.
I have not gone for the cheapest materials,tradesmen based on the fact that It will be my own house.Also there was a good bit of development work on the site.
I estimate a price of £150,000 for the finished house including the site cost but excluding the price of  a boundry wall or landscaping which I will do in a year or two.
If I had gone with the cheapest materials,tradesmen I quess I could build it for about £135,000.
I think the prices for tradesmen may have fallen over the last couple of months.
My house is 12 miles from Galway city.


Hope this will be of some help


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## Need Help

*Thanks Aristotle!*

Thanks Aristotle,

Your information is exactly what I was looking for, the house I'm looking to build is exactly the same size as your house, give or take 100 sq ft.

Thanks again,

NH.


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## Need Help

*A few more questions....*

Hi Aristotle,

I've a few more questions for you if you don't mind....

1)  When you give the cost for the finished house, do you mean that the house is ready to move in to, ie: kitchen and bathrooms fitted, doors and windows fitted, floors tiled, etc?  In other words live-able in-able?

2)  Do you reckon you've saved much by going the direct labour route?

3)  Do you have a driveway laid down yet or will that follow when you're doing the boundary wall and landscaping?

Thanks again,

NH.


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## John Palmer The Wise

*Re: A few more questions....*

Hi Need Help,

Did something similar recently. Got contractor to build house for about £45 Sq. Ft. . By the time it was ready to move in to (extras you mention) the cost was £70 Sq. Ft. This is for house only. The garden and railing can wait.

Knew the builder and trusted him. Was happy with everything. Would not have known where to start with the direct route but if you can get it done hassle free then it is probably cheaper. Isn't there some additional hefty insurance cost for the direct route?.


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## aristotle

*Re: A few more questions....*

Yes for £150,000 the house will be liveable with fitted kitchen, 4 bathrooms tiled throughout and timber floors. Furniture+appliances will be extra off course.If I had bought cheaper windows etc the price would have been about £15,000 less.

I am not to sure how much I have sayed,but I do know the quality of work is good and that the materials used
are also good.

The driveways are done in small stones and the foothpaths and septic tank/perculation are also done.
The Tarmacadam will come later after the landscaping,boundry walls + kerbs.

Are you building the house to sell or as your own residence.???
This will probably determine the quality of tradesmen+materials that you will use to build the house.

Basically when I look at my house I compare it to what I could buy in Galway City for £150,000.
A basic 4 bedi semi detached will cost in the region of £140,000, now it may have a lot better rental potential than my house but I know which house I would be happier with.I was even contemplating buying a house in Galway city for £123,000 about 15 months ago before the site came along.

At the time I started building I could not even get a quotation from the 3 contractors that I approached.
Anyhow If I was to sell the house when finished (feb 2002 hopefully)I would expect to get about £220,000 for it.

Regards


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## Need Help

*Thanks*

Thanks again for the extra information Aristotle.

The house we plan on building will be home and not an investment property, so like yourself, we'll try and have the good stuff in it.

Regards,

NH.


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## Tommy

*Re: Thanks*

When you do a building job by direct labour, you (not the contractor) are responsible for purchasing of materials and hiring of sub-contractors. As the job goes on, you will retain some power over what goes into the house. 

There is a lot of skimping going on in the trade with materials and when we built our house, we found it is well worth our while to pay a few bob extra on various things from time to time. A builder is not going to spend his own money on those extra touches for someone else's house.

Similarly, there are a lot of poorly-skilled tradesmen working in the building industry - plumbers, carpenters, plasterers etc. When we were halfway through our project, we approached a plasterer whom we knew was working nearby. We did a bit of detective work and found out that he wasn't a plasterer at all - just a blocklayer who had 'turned his hand' to plastering because there was more money in it. If a building contractor had used that chancer while building our house under a contract, we would have had no power to stop him.

Any architect who charges 8% of contract price for house plans, "supervision" and certification is ripping their customer off. The going rate for an architect/engineer (there's really no difference form the point of view of the private customer) in the North Midlands on a private building job should be less that £1,000 for the plans & the same for "supervision" and certification. Any architect who says he will "supervise" the job usually means he will call out 5 or 6 times to the site during the period of the building project. That's fine and dandy for complying with the certification requirements of the mortgage lender but it won't do much prevent tradesmen cutting any but the most obvious of corners.

When we were getting quotes for our house, building contractors told us that we couldn't proceed without taking on our own insurance - which would cost us a few grand and indemnify us against anyone being injured or worse during construction. I think this is a red herring as when I enquired with a few insurance companies, none were willing to quote, and I was told that nobody covered that type of risk any longer, as it was a fairly limited market with high risk.

In the end, we got each tradesman to confirm in writing that they were insured to work on our house and that we were indemnified against any injury or loss to them. One or two refused to do so, bu we had no choice but to engage them anyway or wait until kingdom come for the job to be finished. Thankfully, everything passed off without any such incident arising.

p.s. I would reckon direct labour saved us at least 25% of our total project cost.


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## Vernon

*Architect fees*

The RIAI official charge rate for architects is 8% which should include plans, applying for pp, sourcing a builder (where brown envelopes come in), surveyance work, on-going site management which means more than 4 or 5 visits during construction - if anything is wrong you don't tell the builder, you tell the architect to sort it out. 

I know it is a rip-off, but that is the official rate. It means though that you shouldn't have to do anything. The architect should be doing the lot including sourcing brochures for all the internal specs like sanitary, radiators, floors, kitchens..so that you just choose and thats it.


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## srennos

*Go over your budget*

How easy is it to go over your budget?
For example: if you get a qoute of 120000 to build a house, you get a morgage to cover this cost, and then you find towards the end the cash runs out. 
Has the builder got it wrong or is he 'doing' you out of money?


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## Tommy

*Re: Go over your budget*

Thanks, Vernon, for clarifying the point regarding the 8% architects fees. What's included for your 8% is indeed a lot more than I had understood.

How is budgeting catered for in such a system? Does the architect have a total budget that they can't exceed, and as srennos asks, what happens when the budget runs out earlier than expected?


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## Vernon

*Budgeting*

Well you should probably budget £120 per sq ft to start with. If you want to include fancy windows/ floors you can start adding. The way I did it was that the architect gave me a ball-park price per sq ft and I worked to that. This was for a bog standard house with ordinary windows/ doors etc. For every addition he gave me a figure to add to the £120. Like if you want oak doors inside and oak skirting boards, this will go on top of the normal build cost.

The architect should draw up plans and list specifications which will tell you exactly what you are paying for. Within the specifications are PC Sums to include things like floors/ sanitary wear/ Iron mongery/ contingency sums/ heating/ electrical. So for eg. if you have a PC sum of £5,000 in for heating, you budget for this amount and if it comes in less than this, well and good. It is up to the architect to make sure that what is going in is good, and also reasonable. Usually the PC sums are always overstated so that you dont under-budget. Some surveyors suggest that you get a Bill of Quantities, which lists evertything down to the last nut and bolt, but this is not recommended for smaller jobs.

When you get a quote from the builder, the full amount will include the money set aside for PC sums. You should also get a fixed price contract, so that you know you are not going to have to sepnd more than is set out at the start. 

Things to remember are the following:

The price per sq. ft. does not include the architects fees.
Additonal costs are things like the money payable to the council for certification of the drainage works. That cost me £3,750 if you don't mind!
Get the architect to give you a schedule of payments so that you know when the bulider will want money and how much at ech stage. As a general rule, no money is paid until the roof starts.
The builders quote may not include things like tiling/ flooring/ kitchen/ fireplace.

There are probably many other considerations which I am forgetting about, but this a good start.

V


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## sfag

*fees*

The 8%+ Architects fees have the design process built in to the price. As with most purchases nowadays people will make up there own mind and effectively design their own house. All most people want is to have plans drawn from their own ideas. As suggested above an engineer will provide ‘drawings’ for £1000. They will not be detailed plans and will come on A3 size paper and have no roof plan. Most builders can work from them and prefer the plans not to bee too detailed anyway. The crucial bit is the inspections and an engineer will do 6 of these for £1,000. 
As with the cost of most labour services there is a rural/town divide. Townies pay the £20,000 fee and rural people pay the £2000 with a bit of spitting on their hands involved. 
I'm afraid I fall in to the foolish townie category. I was getting my roof slates replaced and had aggreed to pay the asking price of £12,000. My Dad, from the country, arrived on the moning the builders were starting and haggled them down to £6,000 based on the fact he had an idea on how much it should really have cost which was around £5000.
Morale :  if the builder can arrive to to the job quickly you are probably paying twice the price.


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## tedd

*Re: Building a House*

My experience of renovating an old house may not be applicable because its a lot easier to draw/photocopy a set of plans if you are building on a open site than if you are working in a terrace. Despite this, I have nothing but praise for my architect. As Tommy says there is "a lot of skimping going on in the trade with materials" and he noticed three separate attempts to replace things with inferior quality materials to what was agreed in the PC. While the RIAI give an 8% guideline, most architects (especially solo practitioners) are willing to negotiate. My architect was from the country but the house was in Dublin, so townies aren't necessarily excluded from good deals.

While most people have a good general idea of what they want, a good architect knows what works and how much it will cost. The best plans are a compromise between the two.


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## troccoli

*questions to Aristotle, John Palmer and Tedd re building*

Aristotle, 

You said you are building a house in Co. Galway. I am wondering if you used an architect and if so, if you had a good experience - would you mind passing me on his/her contact details, please? - I'm keen get good advice on my plans/design (as I want to give it to a building contractor). I will be building in Co. Galway too.

John Palmer,
You were happy with your building contractor (you didn't say which county you built in) - does he do work in Co. Galway - if so would you mind passing me on contact details, please??

Tedd,
You were happy with your architect, - you said he was from down the country but not where - anywhere near Co. Galway and would you mind passing on his details??

THANKS!!

Troccoli (totally new to this building thing, doing it on my own and keen to work with people who come recommended etc!)


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## paddyirishman

*Architectural services in Galway*

Sean keane @ 091 569 522


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## bud

*arch*

600 yoyoz., that fellas a gansta..


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## paddygalway

*re*

Bud, 

600 euro for what exactly?

On the subject of building, anyone used scandinavian homes in Galway? If yes, how much (approx) per sq ft for the finished house?

Reading back over this post bought a tear to my eye - less than two years ago you could buy a 4 bed semi-d in Galway for 140,000 punts/177,000 euro...you'd be lucky to get a three bed semi for 250,000 euro today...sob  

And you'd have to put up with the stupid 'box room' which they seem to shove into all houses these days.....box room?  Dog box more like it....!!!


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## fearmor

*building a house*

you better get your skates on and lodge a planning permission as the new development plan for galway is being passed soon which will make it much harder for you to receive planning for a one off house.
with regards to direct labour, if you are borrowing from the bank, they will require a builders name so they can issue money at differnt stages of construction, also bear in mind you will have to probably supply scaffolding, pay for removal of rubble/waste etc. and be constantly on site to ensure thay are doing a decent job and do alot of running around to get the materials.Also most builders get a discount from builders providers which you won't be entitled to


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## Fear Mor Ochras

*Bank will want builders name*

I am about to start a direct labour project. I have already arranged the morgtage. I have been told by my bank that I can draw the money in any fashion I want in order to pay for materials and labour as the job progresses in the direct labour way.
I cant understand how a bank can advance money for a direct labour build and then demand a builders name. Direct labour projects simply do not work like that.

Ta ochras mor orm anois.


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## celticplasterers

*self build*

i want to build a house in the dublin area i have a builder who would build it for 95 euros a sq foot do you think i could build it for cheaper if i got the tradesmen in my self i am a plasterer and would the plasterering my self if any one has any hints for me pleas get in touch @ celticplasterers@eircom.net thanks peter gourlay


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## BobtheBuilder

*Direct labour savings*

Hi Celticplasterers,
                         think of it this way, if you agree a price of €95psqft with your builder, and he looks after everything eg. phoning guys and arranging for them to do work, phoning suppliers and ordering stuff, spending some of his time supervising/checking up on them, do you think he does all that for free? Too right he doesn't, and why should he, so you safe the value of that straight away by going direct labour.
 The flip side of this though is that you may not get the same prices for everything (from labour to materials) as he does. And he is probably better at estimating the price of everything than you are, so for you to do an accurate comparison is difficult.
 Having said all that, the general accepted wisdom is that direct labour is usually cheaper. Good Luck whatever you do.


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## G

*Self Build - Builder details*

Do you have the details of the builder that will build it for 95 euros a sq foot?


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## Bamboo

*..*

Anyone any idea of what the going rate (i.e Euros per sq. ft) is for building an extension in Dublin?

Thanks

B


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## rainyday

*Re: >>Building a House (Key post)*

See [broken link removed] for [broken link removed] and a pile of other articles on building your own home.


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## cathal

*building a house*

Rainyday - could you please fix the link above - I cannot find the articles you mention

I am also embarking on a self-build and have been told that I must take out liability insurance? Can anyone give me advice on the whols self insurance issue when building your own home

Thankyou


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## rainyday

*Re: building a house*

2nd link corrected.


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## kfpg

*Link still not working & Self Build Insurance*

To Rainyday: Link still does not seem to work

To Cathal: There is an interesting post which I've been contributing to, its probably a page or two back by now. It will enlighten you if not delight you


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## mini

*Re: Cost of building*

Hi ,
I'm hoping to do an extension and renovation of a farmhouse.Just wonder where you found your tradesmen? Also, did you employ an architect or draughtsmen? Thanks ballinap@gmail.com


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## DaveK

There is an internet based (Irish) company that offers a lot of services for self-builders - Price Before You Build Ltd. We got a full Bill of Quantities for our 200 sq. meter dormer for about 250 euro - a hell of a lot cheaper than anywhere else. We knew exactly what our build would cost before we started, which made dealing with the bank a lot easier, and it also gave us great negotiating power when it came to dealing with trades & suppliers, knowing exactly what we should expect to pay for each job. We actually came in nearly 5% under budget - might be a first!


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## Sue Ellen

Hi Dave,

Welcome to AAM.

Can you confirm if you have any association with this company?  Glowing recommendations on old threads from first time posters generally makes people wary.


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## onq

*Re: Architect fees*



Vernon said:


> The RIAI official charge rate for architects is 8% which should include plans, applying for pp, sourcing a builder (where brown envelopes come in), surveyance work, on-going site management which means more than 4 or 5 visits during construction - if anything is wrong you don't tell the builder, you tell the architect to sort it out.
> I know it is a rip-off, but that is the official rate.<snip>



I think you'll find that it may be a guide, as opposed to an official rate.
No architect worth his salt will touch "brown envelopes" in choosing a builder.
If you suspect him of playing favourites for financial gain or unfair advantage in the marketplace, report him to the RIAI.
They are empowered to remove his name from the Register of Architects for improper professional conduct.

As for saying that a rate of 8% is a rip-off, I beg to differ. Here's why:

A build of €200K yields €16K fees.

Say:

4K to planning lodgement
2K for further information/ planning Appeal Submissions
4K to building regulation compliance/tender
3K post-tender and working drawings
3K on-site inspections and certification.

Let's just look at the work to planning lodgement stage.

From thefirst meeting to finished design [not build] can take 3-4 months or more of meetings to develop a concept, explore and resolve any differences between the spouses, look at other houses for inspiration ["I want it just like that"], perform site research and investigations,  carry out a Development plan review,  hold preliminary planning meetings, etc.
Several checks as noted in the Self Build FAQ will require to be carried out after the concept is approved and then the detail design starts.
Preparation or public notices and drawings, checking documents and lodgement of planning will take a week for a sole practitioner.
All that for €4K? David Grant charged €3.5K and he had a 60% failure rate!

Also please remember that the work in this and subsequent stages are intended to result in a set of formal Opinion of Compliance documents under which the architect takes full responsibility for the design of your house.

The bottom line is that all of the work noted above takes time and an architect can only take on so much work while giving a good attentive service. Most practices are lucky to see an income of 50% of gross. 

Assuming your architect does five houses in a year [80K Gross] carries PI [€1-2K] and runs an office in a town centre [say 10K/annum for rent, 10K secretary, 10K running costs] is a member of the RIAI [600 membership fee and say 400 CPD conferences] he'd be lucky to see a nett take home pay of around €40K.

Out of which will come say 12K mortgage and 10K food leaving about 18K for other bills, kids schooling, medical expenses and if he's very luck, a holiday.

I see no new BMW in there, more like a Golf and a mini MPV over five years.

I'm not defending any very high fees some practices may [or may not] charge BTW - I'm just pointing out that when you employ an architect, you're getting a professional service overseeing the design and production of a once off product and it has to be paid for.

You might think - "Oh I could get a good second had car for what I'm paying my architect."

You could, but did you know it takes 5 Billion dollars to develop a new car design from scratch? And that car can be mass produced to recoup the losses? Your house design process cannot be reproduced like that. Each house design process is unique, a once-off and each has to pay for itself.

I hope this adds to your understand of the process and the costs involved.



FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]


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## RKQ

*Re: Architect fees*



onq said:


> David Grant charged €3.5K and he had a 60% failure rate!


 
Why mention *this* individual?
He claimed to be a _Naval Architect_ - surely the word "Naval" was a hint?

Lets not mention this person - Primetime made him famous, yet he was the *only *dubious character *they* could find in the whole Country!
At least the professional journalists at BBC don't run a whole programme on one cowboy.

One in 3.8 million, is not bad. How many crooked Solicitors hit the headlines lately?
How many unqualified Surgeons or Doctors convicted of attempted murder?

Reputation is very important. Do your homework.
Always get references and get 3 quotes minimum... for any work, i.e contact 3 Designers, 3 Builders etc. for clear written quotes.

Remember Oranges are not the only fruit.


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## threebedsemi

btw, there is no 'official charge rate' recommended by the RIAI, and even if there was it would not be inforceable. They do publish fee surveys every couple of years, which are available to the public, and you should request a copy of this (either from the RIAI or ask your architect for it, he will have a copy.)


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## onq

*Re: Architect fees*



RKQ said:


> Why mention *this* individual?



He was mentioned in the context of justifying a competent qualified architect's fees. 



> He claimed to be a _Naval Architect_ - surely the word "Naval" was a hint?



I performed two google searches

David Grant Naval Architect
and
"David Grant" +Naval +Architect

The only "hit" where his proper name was mentioned in connection with the phrase Naval Architect was your post above.



> Lets not mention this person - Primetime made him famous, yet he was the *only *dubious character *they* could find in the whole Country!
> At least the professional journalists at BBC don't run a whole programme on one cowboy.



Prime Time was not the only source on Mr. Grant - apparently there was a previous Scottish expose which I cannot find right now.
And I think you'll agree that there have been many dubious characters exposed on Prime Time - thankfully few of them were architects.
As regards Mr. Grant's other appearances in De Meeja, here you go;

[broken link removed]
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/5202781.article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6396270.ece
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/london-man-fined-in-protection-of-title-case/579135.article
[broken link removed]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j57kdefx8Jo



> One in 3.8 million, is not bad.


Are you suggesting that there are 3.8 million architects in Ireland? Shirley Knot.


> How many crooked Solicitors hit the headlines lately?


A few


> How many unqualified Surgeons or Doctors convicted of attempted murder?


Ehrm, not many, actually.
Where exactly are you going with your rebuttal, RKQ?

David Grant was not typical of the Architects in Ireland - that was why the RIAI were so rightfully incensed at his misuse of the title architect.

OTC he was the exception that highlighted the general unprotected nature of the professional title "architect".


> Reputation is very important. Do your homework.
> <snip>.



As you can see from the links above, I do my homework.
For your viewing pleasure, here is Mr. Grant's current website.

http://www.inspiredesign.org/

It states; _inter alia_;
-------------
_"He has been consulted as an expert & written articles published in "The Sunday Times" & "The Irish Independent" Newspapers."_
-------------
Note - it does not state "he has been the subject of articles in the Sunday Times and The Irish Independent - he claims to have written them!

=================

But in general we agree RKQ. There are very few like David Grant in Ireland. In the past five years I've seen the handiwork of only two.

ONQ.


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## Patrick2008

As a Chartered Quantity Surveyor can I please advise any self builders or anyone building a house not to waste €250 in employing someone to prepare a Bill of Quantities. There is no benefit in doing so in a one off house unless it will cost of €1m to build. Send out your plans to most builders and they will give you a detailed breakdown. Even if they dont insist that they do as most builders are desperate for work.  I accept that a Bill of Quantities will list out all the materials required but in most self builds their will be changes throughout the build process. Of course banks want cost certainty but this is easily achieved by using a cost/m2 and adding a few contingency sums. Anyway if you are going down the self build route you should have some experience of building and a piece of paper with a list of materials is not going to solve all your problems.


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## Sconhome

Patrick2008,
I am suprised at your post. If there is no Bill of Quantities how do you propose that any non-builder would have the experience or knowledge that would enable them to make an informed decision on which is the best value tender that they have received?

If you insist on a builder producing a bill of quantites or is often the case in tenders that quantities do not form the basis of the contract, how does the client know the standard of goods that have been selected by the contractor. In this regard the cheapest price will always win and this may not be indicative of like being compared with like in the tendering process.

In this environment consumers need as much surety as possible before embarking on any project and by spending a small sum up front thwey are aware of the full cost of the project and do not become exposed to the dreaded 'extra' or 'variable' that will occur when the differences of interpretation, opinion and understanding become aparent through the project.


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## onq

Patrick2008 said:


> As a Chartered Quantity Surveyor can I please advise any self builders or anyone building a house not to waste €250 in employing someone to prepare a Bill of Quantities. There is no benefit in doing so in a one off house unless it will cost of €1m to build. Send out your plans to most builders and they will give you a detailed breakdown. Even if they dont insist that they do as most builders are desperate for work.  I accept that a Bill of Quantities will list out all the materials required but in most self builds their will be changes throughout the build process. Of course banks want cost certainty but this is easily achieved by using a cost/m2 and adding a few contingency sums. Anyway if you are going down the self build route you should have some experience of building and a piece of paper with a list of materials is not going to solve all your problems.




Are you sure you're a Chartered Quantity Surveyor?

The title is protected by law now and not to be bandied about.

The reason I ask is that it costs a lot more than €250 to prepare a Bill of Quantities.

€250 is what it costs to get dyno rod to come out and spend two hourse clearing a drain.

I've just organized Budget Cost estimate for a Bank presentation for a client and even that cost a LOT more than €250.

So on the face of it I just don't know where you're coming from with the €250 charge for a BoQ.

A BoQ can achieve useful savings and cost control on houses in the half million euro range, never mind €1M.

FWIW

ONQ.


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## onq

Patrick2008 said:


> As a Chartered Quantity Surveyor can I please advise any self builders or anyone building a house not to waste €250 in employing someone to prepare a Bill of Quantities. There is no benefit in doing so in a one off house unless it will cost of €1m to build. <snip>



Let me develop my query of your qualification to a personal one.
In this thread you've advised people not to retain a QS on a once-off under €1M.

Are you the same Patrick 2008 who posted the following in:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=922664#post922664

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28-08-2009, 09:21 AM                                                

                  Frequent Poster
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*Re: New build spreadsheet list*
                                                       Hi Jollyman. I agree to some extent with you in paying a Chartered QS to prepare BOQ's etc for a one off house as it is relatively easy to prepare a schedule of materials etc. Of course this depends on the complexity of the design, the Clients know how etc. I do think it is benefical to employ a QS who has influence with suppliers etc. For example I can get material prices from most of the suppliers I use in the Leinster area for 20-30% less than you can. That is because the company I work for build a few thousand units a year so we have better buying power. I have acted as QS forsome clients as a side job and my suppliers have given me this discount to pass on to my clients. So for example the materials element of a self build can be anything up to 25% of total build cost. So if your final build cost is say €200,000 and the materials cost is €50,000 then a good QS cansave you up to €15,000 on materials alone. And all for a fee of a few thousand euro. This does not include savings that can be made on labour rates and savings on other efficiencies throughout the build process.

Bear in mind a QS has to spend 4 years in college and a further 2-3 years to gain Chartered status. A spreadsheet will not save you money but a good QS with good contacts and commercial acumen will._ 

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In the above quoted response you're telling people what a good idea it would be to use a QS on a house one fifth the price - €200K.

Patrick 2008, in case you don't get it, consistency is the key to online credibility.
Unless there is an overriding reason for doing a complete 180 degree turn on advice you've posted, it diminishes your credibility.

Stating you're a Chartered QS and then posting inconsistently while offering advice you are supposedly professionally trained to give may undermine not just your good self, but also the profession of which you claim to be a member.

You say;

_"I have acted as QS forsome clients"_ 

Are you a qualified and competent chartered QS or not?

I ask because your current stated position on houses under a million is at complete variance with your previous statements.
I have known and worked with a few QS's and the one thing that they all are is consistent.
And the one line they all say is that employing a QS will always bring benefits on budgeting and cost control and they will advise on which is the best service to obtain from them.
Similarly every QS I know will tell you that a Builder's QS works for a builder and not the client/employer and that you should retain your own professional advisors.

Your advice therefore is not at all what I would have expected to read from a Chartered Quantity Surveyor.

Over to you.

ONQ.


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