# From Private sector professional to Clerical Officer in Local Authorities



## buzybee (11 Aug 2007)

Has anyone changed from the private sector to the Clerical officer jobs in the councils?  I am 35, accountant in the private sector (qualified 2 yrs), currently on about 34K.  I am on the panel for the clerical officer job.  Would you think I'm mad to consider moving to a 'lower' position in status, with a salary range from 23K to 37K?  I do not think that there will be much of a salary drop.  My hourly rate will be similiar to earning 24K or 25K in a public sector job.  Even though I earn 34K I have to work long hours and work at a fast pace for this.

The main reason why I would like to move, is the shorter working hours.  Currently I work about 45 hours a week.  The clerical officers work about 32.5 to 35 hrs a week.  I would not mind the 45 hrs so much, but I find the work quite stressful.  Even though I work hard, I still struggle to get all the work completed for deadlines etc.  I have looked around at other jobs in the private sector, but all the employers are very exact about the type of experience they need.  Also, I could get a higher salary, but could have to work even longer hours.  

I would hope, that if I got the clerical officer position, I could move in time to a slightly more senior position in time (given my experience and qualifications). Even with a Grade 4 or 5, I think that one would surely get the work completed in 40 or 45 hrs a week. 

Also the loss of status is a consideration.  I have worked and studied hard to get my exams and also to get all my relevant experience signed off.  Sometimes I think this will all be a waste if I go to the public sector in an office job which anyone could get.  On the other hand, there would be a great work/life balance, as the working week is very short and the salary is very high considering the short working week.


----------



## vladamir (11 Aug 2007)

this sounds like madness.

go for the civil service grades of EO, AO and open HEO. you will also work 35 hours per week in these grades (generally - some will work a lot more) and you will have much better career opportunities.

I think the Dept. of Finance advertise annually for AO Finance people - accountants, economists and the like. you'd start way higher than a CO and could probably expect promotion within five years if you do a decent job.

if you need out of your job straight away - take the CO job but keep your eyes out for the jobs mentioned above. you would not fit the average CO profile and i suspect you'd find the work mind numbing.


----------



## buzybee (11 Aug 2007)

I am located in the south of Ireland, so there would not be loads of opportunities for AO, EO Grade 4s etc. I am applying for the Executive Officer and Grade 4 positions as well, but I am not getting high up enough on the panel. There is no guarantee that I will get into the Public Service at this level, even if I keep trying another few years. At least, if I am in the public service as Clerical Officer, I might be able to get an acting Grade 4. It is very hard to get a Grade 4 administrative position from the outside. These generally go to people who are currently in the public service with experience as 'acting' grade 4s.

It is easier to get high up in the Clerical Officer panel, than to get high up in the AO, EO, Grade 4 panels.  Because of less competition, I find that I can come within the top 10, even sometimes within the top 5, in the Clerical Officer exams.  This is because most of the applicants would just have a leaving cert/secretarial courses and would be younger with less experience.  Whereas in the EO or AO exams, I would come 60 or 70 on the basis of exam results.

I am concerned about the work being boring etc, also if I do not get a promotion I could be stuck in boring work for a good few years, albeit working short hours & having good work/life balance. I am just hoping that I will get into an interesting section with figurework. I love accounts & figures, but just hate the pressure in the private sector.  I also hate having to ask (fight) for a salary increase every year, just to get my 2% to keep pace with inflation.  I love the way in the public sector, they automatically give you a 2% or 3% every year to keep pace with inflation.


----------



## RainyDay (13 Aug 2007)

I moved from private to public sector, taking a 35% salary cut in the process, and I've never looked back. I've no regrets. Having said that, I moved at AP level, so my starting salary is a bit more substantial that the CO level. 

Have a good think about how you can live on the CO level salary. What will this reduction mean for you in lifestyle? 

Also, I'd worry a bit about the lack of decision-making for a CO level role. If you are a professional accountant, then presumably you are bringing judgement and decision-making into play every day. In your CO role, I would suspect that your decision making would be quite restricted, and is more likely to be at the level of 'Helvetica or Geneva font today' stuff. If this is a problem for you, perhaps this isn't the right move.


----------



## SarahMc (13 Aug 2007)

It totally depends on what type of person you are.  I hated the civil service (I went in at grade 4).  I found it stifling, boring, any innovation, or willingness to work outside your job description was frowned upon. You have set breaks, don't dare work a minute past 5, extremely hierarchical etc.  Totally totally different to the private sector.  We 4s thought, life as a 5 will be better, I'm sure 5s thought etc etc.

I found the "nonprofit/third sector", best of civil service with best of the benefits of the private sector.  With so much outsourcing from govt departments there is quite a bit of work in this sector.


----------



## buzybee (14 Aug 2007)

I am on the HSE panel, so I would be moving to HSE if I got the Clerical Officer job.  I am a bit concerned that some of the Clerical Officer roles could be too 'secretarial' and may not be interesting. I like administration work if I am reasonably busy and if the work is interesting.

Even though I am a qualified accountant, my roles have always been 'accountant' in small companies and 'accounts assistant' in larger companies.  Therefore I am well used to doing some 'boring' work.  The reason why I don't want work as an accountant in a large company, is that I don't want the work to take over my life re: stress, long hours.

My salary has only increased to the 34K over the past year or two.  Bearing in mind the hours I work, the hourly rate is the same as if I earned 24K in the public sector.  Also, I hate the way I must ask for a salary increase every year, to keep my salary in line with inflation.  When my employer gives me an increase, my workload is then increased and more work/hrs are expected.  I love the way in the govt. jobs, they give you an increase of 2% pa to keep pace with inflation.  Also, I love the way the Clerical Officer goes up to 37K after 10 yrs of service. Even if you didn't get the Grade 4s and had to stay at Clerical Officer level, at least you would have reasonable money & regular hours.  

Also I love the way my status is protected to a certain extent.  When the job is permanent, I would be nearly guaranteed the 37K after 10 yrs.  In the private sector, if I was made redundant and couldn't get suitable work, I would have the indignity of going back working as accounts assistant, and just earning something small.  I find that a lot of the accounts assistant jobs which do have regular hours & a small workload,  pay very low e.g. 23K, even if a person is 35 or 40 with years of experience.


----------



## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

I always imagine that there are great advantages to being in the public sector when you are about to have or already have young children too. There is no fuss about maternity leave, there is the option of flexi time, taking a day off is not a big deal as it can be in the private sector. A friend of mine recently made the move and she can't get over the amount of support she receives ( as in administrative support) and how flexible the job can be. I suppose there must be cons ( certainly her salary isn't out of line with the private sector so rule that out) but for the moment I think she's made a great move.


----------



## legend (14 Aug 2007)

buzybee,

have you thought about going into financial contracting ??? would be more lucrative money wise and you get to move around to different companies / sectors....saying that as Vanilla points out there are a lot of added advantage sin the PS.

good luck


----------



## buzybee (14 Aug 2007)

I have already done contracting for the past 2 years.  I have moved around to different size companies, different industries & different roles. I did this partly to get more experience, and partly to find out the general conditions of work etc.

I don't know about it being lucrative though!!!  I still find that even if I'm on a 6 month contract, the company still expects results, and these can't be got by just working 40 hours a week.  The more lucrative jobs tend to take over one's life in terms of stress and hours, so I have stayed away from these.

Maybe I have been a bit unlucky, but in my last job, I was out sick for 3 days (bad flu, probably brought on by stress).  I didn't get paid for these, despite the fact that I regularly worked 45 hour weeks.  All this for a salary of 30k. 

I know there is more scope to develop your role, etc in the private sector.  This is really no fun, if you have to work 50 hrs a week in order to earn anything decent.  Since I have got married, I find it a particular struggle to keep going with the long hours and fit cooking/shopping around my job.  When I was single I didn't take any notice of doing my shopping late, & sitting down to dinner at 8pm.


----------



## Vanilla (14 Aug 2007)

If you're thinking of having children then it makes working late all the more difficult. Both from a practical, financial side but also emotionally and you can really only know what it is like when you are in the position.


----------



## delboy159 (14 Aug 2007)

I took a wage cut from the private sector and don't regret it for a minute...  It's all about mindset though!

I'm the type of person who looks forward to 
> my 6 mile run at lunch or after work 
> having a couple of pints with a mate on a Tuesday/wednesday or whatever evening
> ringing in and saying "taking my day flexi" because one of my friends suggested going for a round of golf because it's a stunning day (hasn't happened this summer as you can imagine)
> reading up on exactley why the financial money markets went crazy last week....

Being in the Civil service affords me all of the time to do the above.

I also enjoy "not worrying" about wages/raises/bonuses...  In the private sector I worked in a company that had a bonus structure.  Invariable 70% of the staff were unhappy as they felt they deserved more compared with some other person or worked twice as hard this year but only got the same bonus....  In the Civil service the bonus system is token and no one cares - full stop. No one wins, no one looses!

Job security is key for me... I hate the thought of "floating" or being exposed to the whim of take overs or redundancies or just bad luck....

Equally so, I've seen people who love the "live to work" life and I've seen them almost have a gap in their life when they aren't working 50/60/70 hours a week..  they would implode in the Civil Service.
I fortunatley have thrived as a person.  My partner and I went through a very testing period in our relationship 2 years ago (illness) and we both maintain that if I had been in the private sector we would have split under the pressure.  The fact I could take flexi days or not arrive in work until 10 o'clock in the morning and wasn't bringing any aspect of work home with me was a major help.

As you might have noticed I haven't mentioned any aspect of my job.  Ironically I've actually had some interesting stuff to do, but to be honest, when I joined the service I came in with a very specific mindset.  I wanted to loose weight, get fit, meet up with friends more often and generally begin to enjoy life more. I took up golf also and have time to research the stock market to invest a bit of my (very small) savings.


----------



## buzybee (14 Aug 2007)

I am 35 now & have no children.  This is partly due to the private sector long hours, work fast culture.  I know that if I was out sick/couldn't keep up to speed with work (due to pregnancy), my job would go.  Also, the fact of getting only E280 a week for 6 months.  Then I would have a fine time explaining to employment agencies that I took a year out to be sick/have a baby.  It would be difficult to get back to work at the same level again.  I would probably have a choice between a very busy job or no job.

Even if the 'having children' didn't happen, I would still like to have a balanced work/home life.  I had a balanced life (40 hour weeks) up until about 5 yrs ago.  Then employers just started expecting more & making cutbacks.

I look forward to TV progs in the evenings, a nice long walk & time to cook a dinner, keep up to date with grocery shopping.

I hate the way that you have to choose between two extremes in a lot of jobs.  You either have a job which takes over your life, OR you have no job.


----------



## cruchan09 (14 Aug 2007)

I have posted a similar reply elsewere but......the thing that bothers me about the public sector is the 'hold' that they have over you. It is very difficult to leave the sector due to the pension that awaits you at the end. I am in my mid 30's and whilst I like my job in the public sector the thoughts of staying here another 30 years sometimes fills me with dread. You should consider this as I know some people who are stuck at the top of their grade, can't get promoted and consequently start to resent their job but will not leave as they will not get the same pension in the private sector. That said the stability that the sector provides is excellent.


----------



## buzybee (14 Aug 2007)

Cruchan09, don't the public sector give career breaks of up to 5 years.  Even if you took a break of one or two years, you could try and move to the private sector & try it out.  I'm sure a lot of people would find the career breaks useful, if they wanted to set up their own business & still have the safety valve of a job.  

Also, can you not move from one public organisation to another e.g. HSE, Civil Service etc. ?  I know getting another job is easier said than done but at least it is a possibility.


----------



## RainyDay (14 Aug 2007)

cruchan09 said:


> the thing that bothers me about the public sector is the 'hold' that they have over you. It is very difficult to leave the sector due to the pension that awaits you at the end. I am in my mid 30's and whilst I like my job in the public sector the thoughts of staying here another 30 years sometimes fills me with dread.


I don't think it is fair to think of this as a 'hold'. Yes, the public sector pension is good, just as the bonus/stock scheme in many private sectors is good, and the company car scheme in some roles is good. It is as much of a hold  as you let it be.


----------



## cruchan09 (15 Aug 2007)

BuzyBee, I have done the private sector thing and have had my own company and left it all to come to the public sector. Don't get me wrong, I love my job at the minute, good salary (more than I could get for the same job in the private sector), a 32.5hr week, flexible hours, etc. It's just that the area I am in does not really offer the chance of movement within the public sector at a similar pay grade. I just sometimes feel a little nervous when I look at co-workers who have not had a promotion for years and are topped out on their pay scale. In the organisation I work in this situation generates a lot of resentment among some people. 

RainyDay, I agree with your point. Thing is it's hard to find a private sector company with a defined benefits pension of 50% of salary (plus lump sum) on day of retirement for relatively small personal contributions plus the job security of the public sector. This makes it very hard to ever contemplate leaving the public sector, although long term I can see myself doing just that (if the wife lets me!)

Sorry to hijack the thread OP.


----------



## batty (15 Aug 2007)

just a thought €35K for a qualified experienced accountnat seems very low to me.

Is there anywher you could still work as an accountant and get a better salary??  I have a friend who works for a charity and earns approx €60K p.a..  she regularly moans that this she could earn more but acknowledges that she does work a 9-5 job.  any extra time she puts in can be taken as time off in lieu.


----------



## buzybee (16 Aug 2007)

Batty, 

I already tried to get more money & regular hours.  I have been in contract roles for the past few years to get better experience.  Some of my roles are 15 miles outside of my home town, so I am flexible.  I am based in the Mid West of Ireland.  There are jobs here, but stiff competition for anything good.  

My friends are in the same boat.  Those who are on the 50K bracket work long hours and have lots of experience.  Those who are on 30K are working as accounts assistants with regular hours & still have some stress.

I have really tried to seek out work which is regular hours and well paid.  However, I have been unsuccessful in getting this in Finance in the private sector.  Don't even know if such work even exists in the private sector.

For the past year, I have been feeling a sense of dread from time to time, even when I am at home.  This is similiar to the feeling I used to get in college & was worried about exams.  This and the 'lack of energy' at weekends can take the good out of having a job.  I am still only 35 and have no children.  I eat healthily, exercise etc, so I shouldn't be feeling exhausted every weekend, even though I don't go out socialising.


----------



## legend (16 Aug 2007)

buzybee,

when i mean contracting i don't mean temping / salaried postions.. i mean setting up on your own as a ltd company and charging for your services by the hour....

i recently hired a contract accountant for € 35p/h....on a 3 month contract..

depending on your experience smaller companies might use your services for pay roll  / audits etc etc.... as opposed to using a firm of accountants...who can charge much more...

this way you can dictate how you want to work... 3 days a week etc etc..

best of luck,


----------



## Killter (17 Aug 2007)

Firstly, Delboy, hope everything worked out ok regarding the illness...

Secondly, as to the accountant taking a pay drop.....im currently on a few grand more than original poster, doing a 50 hour week with company vehicle, diesel card etc but Im crazy to say that im packing it all in to try get into the basic CO!!!

The work/life advantages for outweigh the money!

Have my entry test end of August if anyone has any tips.....

i might be mad, but best of luck to original poster.


----------



## buzybee (18 Aug 2007)

Hi Kilter,  

The entrance exam is basically an aptitude test, covering comprehension (reading passages and answering Qs), numerical, and classification & checking.  Look on the public jobs website for test examples.  The test is easy enough, but it can be challenging trying to get the classification/checking done fast.  There is little time for the test, but I think you are not meant to get it all done. However if you practice the test examples first, you should be able to get most of it done.  Depending on your score in the test, you are placed on a ranking e.g 5th or 20th.  They call people in the top ranking for interview.  I don't know how many, but they could call 40 or 50.  Depending on the other candidates, you should get placed in the top 10 if you are academically strong.  Eg. I got 6 honours in the leaving cert & got placed 4th and 9th in my two tests (for different organisations)

Your choice seems a bit more difficult than mine.  At least you have a company car & a little more money than me.  I have never got a company car.  I haven't got health insurance/pension benefits for the past few years.  In fact I don't even get sick pay!!!!   If I am out of work for a day or two with cold/flu I don't get paid, yet I still have to make up all the work & get figures for the end of the month.  I feel that employees are treated more humanely in the public sector.  I think the private sector is ok as long as you are in the full of your health & able to deliver the goods every month.  At the first sign of ill health/pregnancy/personal problems, a person in the private sector could be out on their ear.

Best of luck


----------



## Killter (19 Aug 2007)

Hi Buzybee

Thanks for the help. I am also wrestling with the loss of status question too-Ive spent six years in college, have science and forestry degrees but honestly think, as you have pointed out, that the work - life balance is much better. as it is, I work around ESB high voltage power lines using chainsaws and other saws, often at a height which can be pretty nasty to ones health if something goes wrong and our company wont even pay sick pay! what a joke. i also think that they are fiddling my tax. I ve had enough of them and gave a months notice. Being happy and having better quality time is more important to me.

As regards revision work for the CO post I just bought a book by byron entitled "How to Pass Selection Tests". Bet its going to be riveting reading!!


Thanks Buzybee


----------



## garythegreat (26 Jul 2008)

I;m just after reading this thread and its a really good intresting read, it was created almost a year ago - Buzzybee and Killter did you end up going for the CO jobs and how did you get on?

Im currently deciding if i'll take an EO position or emigrate to Oz, so am doing some research into all this - would like to hear of your experinces a year on.


----------



## cork (29 Jul 2008)

Yep, I come from a finance background and work in a LA. It is safe, regular hours and untaxing work.

Opportunities to get into the finance section of the LA seem low.

If I got a transfer - I'll probably be put filing or inputting.

I'll probably do some more study on a part time basis and see out the recession in this job.


----------



## aircobra19 (29 Jul 2008)

I moved from contracting into the private sector a few years ago, and its been great. One thing to consider is that the public sector pension gives you the best return if you maximise your years of service. Those of use moving late into the public sector don't won't be able to do this, so you have to look at buying back years etc when balancing the pro's and con's of the move.


----------



## cork (30 Jul 2008)

My main problem working with the local authority is the nature and boredom of the job.


They pay for no CPE/CPD courses or accountancy subs.


More study is probably the only solution or taking on part-time work.

Just check out career breaks possibilities within the local authority. Some LAs are very restrictive.


----------



## Syd2207 (1 Aug 2008)

Hi, 
I am currently working in the public sector, just completed a masters and I am seriously considering a move to the private sector. I am 28 years old and I've worked here since I left college. 

My god, my work is mind numbing. Just so Boring! ( CO grade) But it does come with all the perks mentioned. Great pension, Flexi, No Stress.

I am just worried that I won't actually make the cut in the private sector. The job is really annoying me of late. This job has actually made me really lazy. It's probably like anything you just get used to a new job!


Like I think to myself I must be crazy to leave when eveyone else is dying to get in. I was overlooked for promotion twice, it's really being a case of I'm sitting on my A*s. So had to motivate yourself tho.

But yeah I would be really interested to know how the original poster got on in the end! 

I have been given advice that I should leave if i am not happy.. but may be a case of far away grass is not always greener...


----------



## gradgrind (1 Aug 2008)

Another aspect is how sustainable the ok (when including pension) salary is. COs have been terribly paid since the year dot up to maybe 10 years ago. 

Which wasn't really surprising, since as far as I know it's a job that officially requires only the leaving cert.

I would think that there's a reasonable possibility the salary will drift back via poor increases over the next couple decades to a position where at the very least no-one with a masters would even consider it as a career option. 

Economically it's not good to be attracting over-qualified people into roles where their training and qualifications are often useless apart from getting an allowance for the qualification.


----------



## buzybee (6 Aug 2008)

I got into the Civil Service last year.  I am a Clerical Officer.  I don't mind the work, dealing with figures & some queries from the public.  I work in a large section.  They move people around every few years so you won't be in the same job for years on end.

I love the flexi time.  I can work up 1.5 days a month.   This has really helped to make my annual leave last.  I can use some flexi when I am going on hols.  I love the way I can take a day off and just go shopping/relax at home.  I could never do that before, as I had only the 20 days hols, and I had to make them last.  I couldn't 'waste' them, doing things that I could do on a Sat (eg. cleaning the house, watching DVDs etc)

Also, I get some overtime from time to time, so I don't feel the drop in salary is too bad. 

When you are in the Civil Service/Govt job for 2 yrs, you are eligible for the EO/Grade IV confined competitions.  From hearsay, it is a bit easier to get promoted from these than from the external competitions.

I went into the Civil Service mainly because I wanted less stress and a better work life balance.  I find the salary is OK considering the work involved and the hours of work.


----------

