# Accountant without a Practising Cert



## The Bishop (29 Aug 2017)

I hope this is the correct forum

I am an Accountant but never applied for a Practicing Cert as I have never needed it!!  I have helped out a few friends with sole trader and farm accounts - just a friendly thing - no payment.  However, I would like to take on a few clients - I know a few Start Ups and Farmers who need someone to do their book keeping and accounts - NOT VAT Registered and Do Not Employ anyone - just very simple accounts and Tax Returns to Revenue.

Is it OK for me to take on this work?  I'm not offering "Accountancy Services" as such.


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## torblednam (29 Aug 2017)

What're the rules of your professional body?

Oh and by the way it's pretty obvious from your username what your actual name is.


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## The Bishop (29 Aug 2017)

Professional Body as far as I understand in order to Practice as an "Accountant" one needs a Practicing Cert but I'm not really practicing as an Accountant - more a book keeper really I'd say!!

OK on the Username  How can I change my Username?


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## RedOnion (29 Aug 2017)

Preparing accounts or tax returns goes beyond the definition of bookkeeping for ACCA.
I can't speak for the other professional bodies, but for ACCA what you described in OP falls under definition of public practice, and requires a practicing cert.


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## The Bishop (29 Aug 2017)

Thanks - it's seems so unfair especially when anyone can do this type of work!!  Thanks for your help


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## delfio (29 Aug 2017)

The Bishop said:


> Thanks - it's seems so unfair especially when anyone can do this type of work!!  Thanks for your help



Sure you nearly  need an electrician's cert to wire a plug these days.


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## Redone (29 Aug 2017)

You could resign from your professional body and then do the sideline gig. Not that I'd recommend it.


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## The Bishop (30 Aug 2017)

@ Redone - Thanks   I know but not sure if that's a good idea either - It would save me a lot of money though!!!  but getting back in again if I needed my qualifications could be an issue and more hassle than it's worth


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## RedOnion (30 Aug 2017)

There are options for a 'spare time' practicing cert if your income from it will be below a certain threshold. 
Just satisfy yourself in terms of requirements for professional indemnity insurance, etc also to see if it's worth it. I know you said in an earlier post that anyone can do it, but it's a bit more to sign off on it.


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## Jim2007 (30 Aug 2017)

The Bishop said:


> Thanks - it's seems so unfair especially when anyone can do this type of work!!  Thanks for your help



Are you seriously tell us you are a qualified accountant and you don't know the difference....  Perhaps I wrong, but I thought all reputable accounting bodies had a professional ethics exam of some sort.


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## The Bishop (30 Aug 2017)

@Jim2007 - I mean that you don't have to be an accountant to setup and do book-keeping and simple returns to Revenue - yet a Qualified Accountant cannot do it without a practicing cert


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## The Bishop (30 Aug 2017)

@RedOnion - Thanks for your post.  Do  you think if I get professional indemnity that I can work away without a practicing cert provided my income remains low - my income will be less than €5,000 - less than €1,000 even maybe


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## RedOnion (30 Aug 2017)

The Bishop said:


> @ Jim2007 - I mean that you don't have to be an accountant to setup and do book-keeping and simple returns to Revenue - yet a Qualified Accountant cannot do it without a practicing cert



Not exactly. Bookkeeping would be confined to routine or mechanical processes; preparing accounts to trial balance stage, process payroll, PAYE returns and sales VAT returns for example. You can do all of this without issue.

What you referred to in original post is preparing annual accounts that might be relied upon by third parties, and computing annual tax. 

There's a pretty big difference in my view.

As a member of a professional body, anywhere that you hold yourself out to be an accountant, you fall under the rules of your professional body, do you will need to check their rules.

By the way, I've never known a farmer who didn't need good tax advice. Your work there should go far beyond the definition of bookkeeping if you're providing the service they need.


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## RedOnion (30 Aug 2017)

By the way, there's nothing illegal about going ahead anyhow. There is no legal protection of the term 'accountant' in Ireland. I'm just saying what you should do, according to the rules of your professional body. Any repercussions will be limited to your professional body's disciplinary rules, or being sued by a client.


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## cremeegg (30 Aug 2017)

Redone said:


> You could resign from your professional body and then do the sideline gig. Not that I'd recommend it.





The Bishop said:


> @ Redone - Thanks   I know but not sure if that's a good idea either - It would save me a lot of money though!!!  but getting back in again if I needed my qualifications could be an issue and more hassle than it's worth




As far as I know getting back in is a straightforward matter of paying the fees.


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## browtal (11 Oct 2017)

there is no law that I know of to prevent you from doing accountancy work. Surely anyone can do their own returns, if they are happy with that. 
However it would be incorrect to call yourself an accountant or to mislead somebody that you have more qualifications than you do.

Many small companies or individuals would welcome somebody to do their accounts for them. There is nothing against you making a charge. The charge should be agreeable by your and your clients.
Many people work as accountants without membership of accounting bodies.
Good luck
Browtal


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## The Bishop (23 Mar 2018)

Just throwing this out there - Are there any accountants out there that I could shadow or who would take me under their wing to mentor me and supervise my work with a view to signing off on experience should it be satisfactory? 
In return, I can offer to do some accounts/book-keeping hours. I may also be interested in taking over a practice but would need to work alongside existing accountant for 2 years in order to get a practice cert.

I have over 25 years experience of working in Accounts, Book-keeping and Finance Roles and as well as being a member of CPA, I have a Business Degree from NUI. I am working in our family business and would like to start doing accounts for sole traders/farm accounts as an extra sideline and to complement income.

I know this is a strange request but if you can assist I would really appreciate it. Also, I am open to suggestions. Based in South Mayo, but this should not be an obstacle with IT and also willing to travel. I also am very IT savvy, have experience in many packages and have studied Computer Science and Software Development with GMIT Galway.

All suggestions greatly appreciated [broken link removed]


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## RedOnion (23 Mar 2018)

The Bishop said:


> I have over 25 years experience of working in Accounts, Book-keeping and Finance Roles and as well as being a member of CPA


Have you been in contact with CPA? If you have relevant experience, gained after you passed exams and overseen by an accountant (doesn't have to be CPA) then you should be able to apply.

They might also be a good contact in terms of an accountant that might be planning to retire in your area.


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## The Bishop (23 Mar 2018)

@RedOnion - thanks for your prompt response.  I have been in contact and they are the ones saying I need to get experience in the area I want to practice!!  What is frustrating is that I am aware of others with less experience getting their practice certs but it appears to be getting more difficult to move from industry (as they say) to practice.  At the moment, I am on career break from public service and part of the conditions of the career break is that I cannot take up employment as a PAYE worker - it is OK to be self employed though.  In any case, it doesn't suit my personal circumstances to be in full employment at the moment - hence career break but it would be nice if I could operate as a P/T Accountant working from home.  I'm beginning to think, I'm too straight and by the book but I want to do things right - it's not worth it otherwise.


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## cremeegg (23 Mar 2018)

The Bishop said:


> it would be nice if I could operate as a P/T Accountant working from home.



There is no reason why you cannot do this, unless you are a member of a professional body, which requires you to have a practicing certificate.

In that case either resign from the professional association or get a practicing cert.



The Bishop said:


> I'm beginning to think, I'm too straight and by the book but I want to do things right - it's not worth it otherwise.



What are you talking about. You seem to want to be given a practicing cert without going through the same steps everyone else has to.


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## The Bishop (24 Mar 2018)

@cremeegg - Thank you for your response.  I am aware that if I forget about the CPA there is nothing to stop me operating as an "Accountant" which all seems very wrong in my view.  I have gone through the steps and have the experience but just didn't formalise it in the past as I didn't have any need for a practicing cert.  I am aware of others with less and very similar experience who used that same experience and got their practicing certs but that was many years ago.  I am willing to put in the "practice" experience but cannot do it by becoming a PAYE worker - both my work career break agreement and personal circumstances just don't allow and hence my post here.  I am also willing to do training, a course and or exam but I don't think any such exist.  I'd be delighted if you know of any.  If the truth be known, I think that the accountancy institutes should be inclusive and work with people on career changes and career developments rather than put obstacles in the way ...  after all we are all qualified and capable ...  just maybe have more experience in one particular area etc.  I want to do things ethically and correct and stay abreast of developments which is why I'm going to the trouble of trying to get a practicing cert.  It doesn't make sense that it is easier do the wrong thing!


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## Jim2007 (24 Mar 2018)

The Bishop said:


> If the truth be known, I think that the accountancy institutes should be inclusive and work with people on career changes and career developments rather than put obstacles in the way ...  after all we are all qualified and capable ...  just maybe have more experience in one particular area etc.



It is not about you, it is about protecting the general public and the reputation of the institution to which you belong and how it impacts other members who rely on that the qualification to earn their living. If you do not have the required experience and appropriate PQE to obtain a practicing certificate then you absolutely should not be let lose on the general public.


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## The Bishop (24 Mar 2018)

@Jim2007 - Of Course, I couldn't agree with you more.  However, there should be consistency but I do understand that regulation is getting more challenging.  Having said that, I think there is a gap in the pathway of moving from industry to practice and also the professional organisation should try and work with members rather than making it difficult and creating obstacles.  I know it's not a normal move from industry to practice and for me it would be a huge reduction in salary but needs must and personal circumstances change depending on different life changes.


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## The Bishop (26 Mar 2018)

I attended Alan Moore Conference today (I go every year). An interesting obversation:  spoke to 4 people I never met before
2 men in practice - neither hold a practicing cert and are not aligned to any accountancy body.   
2 Females in Industry - both qualified and members of an accountancy body.


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## T McGibney (26 Mar 2018)

You should probably talk to Omnipro or another of the independent consultants who advise accountants and practices on professional regulatory compliance.


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## The Bishop (26 Mar 2018)

Thanks T - that's an idea - I have worked with them already for CPD Couses


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